6 Episode results for "Dr H H. Holmes"
Dr. Death Pt. 2: H.H. Holmes
"Due to the graphic nature of this killer's crimes listener discretion is advised this episode includes discussions of violence and murder that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen on September. First eighteen ninety four thirty-three-year-old DR H H. Holmes visited his longtime associate. Benjamin pizer at his Philadelphia -partment home suggested they have a drink together and it didn't take long for thirty eight year. Old PILOT SOLD TO GET TIPSY. Pied sold down glass after glass. At homes encouragement once was on the verge of passing out homes seized. His moment pizer was completely helpless under his complete control. Home Smile as he reached into his pockets and pulled out a bottle of clear. Liquid Heisel tried to Murmur. Something as homes soaked. A rag in the liquid but homes paid him no mind. There was no more time for talk as he pressed the rag to pied. Cels face homes rehearsed his next moves in his mind. I the quiet release home. Stood smirking over. Pied CELS Still Corpse. It had been all too easy just like the others but there was still work to be done if he was going to collect pilot. Cels Life Insurance Policy. It would all need to look like an accident. Hi I'm Greg Paulson. This is serial killers of our cast original every Monday. We dive into the minds of madness of serial killers. Today we're continuing our exploration into the twisted mind. Dr H H Holmes One of America's first serial killers. I'm here with my co host Vanessa. Richardson Hi everyone. You can find episodes of serial killers and all other podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream. Serial killers for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type serial killers in the search bar at podcast grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do it. We love us. Know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast network. And if you enjoyed today's episode the best way to help us to leave a five star review. Wherever you're listening. It really does help last week. We discussed H H Holmes Childhood and his fondness for scamming the citizens of Chicago. We also delved into the murders of his first two victims his mistress Julia and her six year old daughter Pearl. This week will follow his killing spree as it kicks into high gear the construction of his notorious murder castle and the cross country pursuit which finally led to his arrest in. May of eighteen ninety two thirty one year old homes breathed a little easier. No one suspected him of Julia and pearls disappearances he felt free to indulge his greatest passion. Again conning anyone gullible enough to take him at his word homes plant a rip off a popular supposed treatment for alcoholism the gold cure the injection was essentially. A patent medicine made up of several ingredients. One of which was a bromide derived from gold. It wasn't actually effective but it was extremely popular. Homes decided to create his own version of the cure. Ingeniously substituting the gold solution for a silver one. He'd previously attempted to create a patent medicine without any luck. His many concoctions did nothing to combat illness but a chronic disease like alcoholism made the perfect target for his pseudo cure. By the time a patient realized the medicine was ineffective homes could be long gone with their money. Plus the desperation of homes targets made them especially vulnerable to being duped. Vanessa is going to take over on the psychology here and throughout the episode. Please note the Nessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist. But she has done a lot of research for the show. Thanks Greg. According to the book controversial therapies for developmental disabilities even otherwise intelligent people may be susceptible to obvious tricks under these conditions. The authors write an important survival skill is to be aware of our limitations. Much of the time we do not utilize our full logical powers to guide our actions or judgments in the everyday world. Doctor himself homes knew how easily people could be manipulated by his scientific credentials. He charged ahead with his new business. Called the Silver Ash Institute to support his new enterprise. He hired twenty four year old. Emily grand as typist homes met Emma. Lean at an employment agency and was instantly smitten. She had previously worked at the Institute where the Gold Cure was administered and thus had ideal qualifications but more important to homes was. Emma Leans beauty and charm which he believed could use to recruit and manipulate customers. Kid brought on young women to help with the schemes before treating them the way he treated everyone else as objects to manipulate and control in Emily's case he seemed particularly motivated to win her over and get her under his thumb as soon as she began working for him. Home started flirting with her egregiously. He bought her gifts and took her to fancy dinners. Despite the fact that he had a wife Mira and a three year old daughter Lucy back at home his advances were so obvious that even emily's landlady objected to their relationship. She noticed emily in coming in at odd hours often accompanied by her boss and told me it was unseemly for her to be seen out with a married man in response probably at homes instruction emily phone new lodgings thereafter. She never stayed in one boarding house for longer than a couple of weeks. According to one landlady quote Emily told me that Mr Holmes did not want her to board with any person longer than a week. All the special attention one emily's affections and he wasted no time in taking advantage of her in every way possible. She had some savings from her work. At the institute which homes promptly borrowed he promised to compensate her with some real estate but naturally gave her forge documents and worthless shares in his phony companies whenever someone like the landlady commented that their relationship was improper homes constructed more and more complex lies to avoid suspicion. He told some people. Emily was his cousin to others. He gave the fake name. Mr Belknap the maiden name of his wife Mir ta meanwhile he covered his tracks at home by moving his family outside of town sending Mir two and Lucy to a modest house in the suburbs but while they lived there full time home only came around once or twice a week. It's unknown how we explain the situation to his life but she may have preferred his absence to his lies by that point. Emily on the other hand didn't seem to mind the lies at all. She knowingly told several people homes fake name and gave phony excuses to nosy landladies for why she'd stayed out all night she also new homes was married but apparently believed he planned to divorce. Mirta for her in the late summer of eighteen ninety two a few months after she began working for homes. Emily told several friends. She was getting married notably. She didn't tell anyone who'd actually met homes about the engagement instead limiting her announcement. Two old friends who didn't know him for Emily in the relationship was true. Love for homes. It was just another scam. He liked to have emily under his thumb helping him with his silver scheme and generally being his beck and call but he had plenty of other irons in the fire by late. Eighteen ninety two he started planning for his most ambitious plan yet. Setting up a hotel in preparation for the eighteen. Ninety three world's fair the world's fair set to begin in May eighteen ninety three promised to be big business industry around Chicago scrambled to take advantage of the expected. Boom in tourism homes wasn't one to let a chance like that pass by. He knew he could make money. Not only by catering to fair goers but also by defrauding the multitude of investors clamoring to take advantage of the business opportunity. There were only too eager to get rich without doing their due. Diligence homes borrowed as much money as possible under the guise of adding a third floor to his sixty third street building. He told people he was opening the floor as a hotel in truth he planned to bleed his investors dry and never pay them back once home. Scott the building materials initial capital he hired laborers to construct the third floor hotel but after week he suddenly fired them all without pay claiming he needed to make cutbacks a few weeks later he hired different laborers again letting them go. After a week with no pay as the jeweler and homes drugstore later said nearly every particle of his building and its fixtures was got on credit and very little of it was ever paid for. It always seemed to me. It was the courteous audacious rest galaxy of the fellow that pushed him through homes. Didn't play by any rules. His scams were transparent and yet they continued largely unabated using forged letters of credit. He collected as much building materials. Possible sometimes selling off the excess to make a quick profit with his plans secure for the moment homes turned his attention back to emily. Their affair continued until the end of eighteen ninety two during which time she was still telling friends that she was engaged despite her insistence that her fiance wasn't named homes. No one she knew had ever met any other lover then soon after December sixth. Emily disappeared from Chicago. The last known person to see her was her close friend Mrs Lawrence. Who spent some time out with her on the sixth. When Mrs Lawrence didn't hear from Emily in for the next couple of days she reached out to homes asking if he knew where she'd gone. She suspected emily and homes had a relationship but both had denied it to her in the past according to Mrs Lawrence when she asked him about Emily. Holmes became flustered. He claimed that. Emily had gone away to get married and abruptly ended the conversation. Mrs Lawrence was confused. She couldn't believe. Emily didn't tell her about the marriage. Homes had no further explanation for her and stayed with his wife the next couple of days when he saw Mrs Lawrence after that he gave her a stack of marriage announcement cards as proof around the same time. Emily's parents receive the same cards in the mail. The announcement stated that Emily had married a Robert E Phelps on December seventh. She and occasionally mentioned the name. Phelps to her friends but as it turned out no such person existed. It's likely Phelps served as a stand in for homes himself but exactly what became Obama? Lean is unknown in the months after her disappearance rumors circulated that Holmes had gotten emily pregnant and paid her off to leave town considering homes aversion to paying anyone anything. It's more likely that he killed emily just like he'd killed his previous mistress. Julia after she'd gotten pregnant and just like after Julia's disappearance homes largely escaped suspicion. After Emily went missing people knew he'd been having an affair with her but didn't suspect him of being capable of violence and no one knew of any reason. Homes would have to murder emily unfortunately as homes would later prove he never really needed a reason to kill he enjoyed making others suffer and his bloodlust was only growing up next. H H Holmes completes construction on his Murder Castle and attempts some of the most daring and violent fraud of his career podcast listeners. We realized that there are a lot of park has shows to choose from each day and sometimes not enough time to sort through them all in our new feed podcast daily. We filtered through all of your favorite podcast series to highlight the most timely and relevant episode premiering. Each day every Monday through Friday. Discover a new and captivating episode curated specifically for you. That's one new episode from our slate of content handpicked with you in mind. Time is precious. And we've got you covered. Follow podcast daily free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. You can check out. Moorpark has shows and a full library of episodes in spotify by searching for park last in spotify search bar or by going to spotify dot com slash. Podcast now back to the story in eighteen ninety two thirty one year old. H H Holmes claimed his third victim. Twenty-four-year-old Amil Lean segerand. Emma lean like one of his previous victims. Julia had been homes mistress. She disappeared from Chicago in December of eighteen. Ninety two after his first two murders homes had taken a brief respite from illegal activities probably to avoid incriminating himself but with the eighteen ninety. Three world's fair only five months away. He had no such luxury by that time. The cracks in his largest scam. The hotel were starting to show homes had been adding a third floor onto a building he owned to serve as lodgings for fair goers all the while he used the construction as an excuse to acquire goods on credit he borrowed enormous amounts of hardware and construction materials using the building itself as collateral but many lenders had caught on that homes wasn't planning to pay them what they were owed angry business owners swarmed the partially completed building on sixty third street to repossess their property. Most were disappointed. Homes had already sold off many of the furnishings and hardware and hidden the rest. The items were so well concealed that it took weeks and multiple walk-throughs for creditors to find what they were looking for once again. Homes outfox victims through sheer absurdity. Well the third floor was being constructed. He ordered countless secret doors in hidden compartments installed which he used to keep things out of sight homes dealt with the repossessions as he always dead he avoided direct confrontation and thwarted legal challenges by forcing lawyers to sift through incomprehensible mounds of paperwork at the end of a fruitless search. All the lawyers would find was that Holmes never put his name on anything. He didn't legally own the building or any of the numerous shell. Companies which had been granted the loans. Everyone knew he was a fraud but legally they could do little about it. Meanwhile he was courting yet another mistress twenty-eight-year-old many Williams many was a former actress. Who MOVED TO CHICAGO IN EARLY? Eighteen ninety three determined to find steadier work outside of the theater. Homes took her on as a typist. The same position held by emily months before as the weeks wore on the similarities. Between Emily and many only grew mini wrote letters to several friends along with her sister in which he claim to be engaged or already married to a wealthy doctor just like emily many gave some people a fake name. When they asked about her fiance she worked with homes closely enough that she had to know he commonly went by h h yet even when clearly speaking about homes. She called Him Harry Gordon. It seemed to some extent had a type considering that he often scammed his victims before killing them. It's likely he thought of them more as Marx than anything else. According to a paper published in the Journal of Investigative Psychology and offender profiling some serial killers us a framework when selecting their victims that matches those of conmen as the paper reports like the confidence man. A serial killer must give the impression to the intended victims as well as others. That he or she is trustworthy and a friend. This is exactly how Holmes approached his relationship with many at first she lied to cover up his true identity because he knew exactly how to get her to trust him. By some accounts. Homes lulled mini into a false sense of security by getting her involved in his criminal activities. He wanted her to think they were equal partners so that she wouldn't suspect it when he ran a scam on her. It worked in the late. Spring of eighteen. Ninety three homes had her send. It hurried message to her financial adviser. She asked him to sell some property she had inherited in. Fort Worth Texas and center the money as soon as possible. Her adviser sold off a small section of the property and sent her nearly three thousand dollars from the transaction worth nearly eighty five thousand dollars today. It's not clear what exactly many and homes did with the money. He might have just wanted to milk her for everything. She had or to test the limits of her cooperation. Whatever his motives homes was intensely invested in many Williams soon after she and Holmes began posing as husband and wife under the names. Mr and Mrs Gordon. It's possible had held the phony ceremony and convinced mini. They were actually married or it could be that. This was just another part of a joint scheme. Many willingly participated in either way. The couple moved into an apartment together in June of eighteen. Ninety three a few days later they were joined by men's older sister nanny. She came to Chicago from Texas to see the world's fair and decided to stay with the couple in their new apartment. How Holmes explained all of this to Mir die is unclear likely. He continued his habit of staying with her and his daughter once or twice a week and spent the rest of the time with many and manny. But this meant homes was now essentially juggling two wives two separate families all while simultaneously dodging a bevy of creditors and lawsuits. The stress became too much. He decided to pull the rip cord on a couple of his commitments and made plans to rid himself of many and nanny. After July fifth neither sister was seen alive again like the previous confirmed homes murders. It's not known exactly how he killed the women or where he hid there remains. His story changed vastly in later years. He initially confessed to stuffing nannies body in a trunk and sinking it in Lake Michigan but later retracted the story on July seventh debt. Collectors showed up to the apartment in search of many only to find. The place had been completely cleared out all evidence of Mr and Mrs Gordon along with Nanny Wilson had disappeared without a trace but getting rid of his second family wasn't the only thing on homes to do list. He still had to deal with his world's fair hotel. Construction had finished on the third floor hotel by the time many in nanny disappeared but none of the rooms were truly livable. Most weren't furnished. Some of the doors didn't close all the way and nothing was clean. Homes didn't advertise his lodgings and there are no records of any guests. It was definitely not a busy hotel but it is possible. Homes rented the place out under the table to avoid attention. If he did guest certainly would have been shocked to find trick walls with sliding panels and bizarre floor plan. That was difficult to navigate many. The closets also had two doors which could have allowed to person to secretly enter. Someone's quarters from the joining room homes. Use some of the hidden passageways to hide goods. He bought on credit so they couldn't be repossessed but it's not clear what the rest of them were for. The labyrinth design and secret passageways eventually sparked rumors that homes designed the hotel like this to spy on guests and easily abduct them. One tail even suggested that the so-called Murder Castle had a body shoot that led to the furnace for easy disposal. But it's unlikely that any of that ever happened while no one knows for certain what he did with the hotel during the fair it was likely largely vacant but if not for murder what was it. Four such a confusing place. Full of unnecessary dead ends and convoluted tricks. Actually suited homes personality perfectly. It showcases desire to manipulate and control everything right down to the places he inhabited most of all it served as a monument to all the confounding wastes of effort. He devoted his energy to further heightening. The mystery was the fact that the only person regularly allowed up to the third floor was homes himself. He kept a Spartan office in one of the rooms there other than a small desk and chair it featured only a stove and a large safe lined with the specis the Labor who worked on the safe a man named Joe Owens later said. He had no idea why homes wanted it insulated in such a way. The only reasonable explanation seems to be that homes. Wanted it to be soundproof. The vault was around eight feet tall and just wide enough for a person to walk into as for the stove on the third floor. It was fairly large but not enormous homes later. Claimed he used it for experiments in bending glass but that doesn't explain why some unidentified women's jewelry and buttons were found in the stove years later though it wasn't large enough to cremate an entire body. It could have been used to incinerate smaller pieces or to get rid of other incriminating evidence. Home certainly could have been killing people in the hotel. Hundreds of visitors to the world's fair disappeared or fell victim to violent crimes while in Chicago. Local police at the time were known to be corrupt and had a reputation for ignoring as many cases as they pursued regardless of what he was using the building for by August of eighteen. Ninety three homes was eager to get rid of the hotel though. The fair was scheduled to run until October August thirteenth. Oppal tenants on the second floor. Saw Him lugging things out of the building. In heavy trunks after homes finished he left to spend the night with Mirta and Lucy within the hour after he left. The smell of burning tar permeated the building and soon the castle was plays. The fire ended up destroying the roof and much of the interior of the third floor but no one was injured. After almost a year spent constructing the hotel. Homes deliberately burned to the ground. He'd taken out multiple insurance policies on the building and seemed to look forward to the impending insurance payout but considering the complex layout and the extent to which homes went to keep his activities on the third floor secret. It's possible there was much more going on behind the scenes. Unfortunately we'll never know for sure. How many victims homes might have claimed in his castle? If there was any hard evidence it was destroyed in the fire but the blaze didn't mark the end of homes murder spree. He was just getting warmed up up next. H H Holmes embarks on a dizzying tour of the United States killing freely as he went now back to the story on August thirteenth 1893. Thirty two year old. H H Holmes set fire to the third floor of a building he owned in Chicago. It had been touted as a hotel for tourists visiting the city for the world's fair but there's no record of anyone actually staying there. Judging by the suspicious stories the building as well as the hasty arson it's possible homes used the blaze to get rid of some incriminating evidence. Left inside but as an added bonus he also intended to collect a sizable insurance payout. After the fire but soon multiple insurance companies investigated his claims and figured out something was fishy homes that purchase the policies under the alias. Hfs Campbell when no such person could come to a personal statement to the insurance companies. The claims are all considered void. The companies didn't take kindly to the fraud and the case got homes in more hot water than he'd ever been in before he jumped from hotel to hotel desperately trying to stay ahead of investigators but as usual was working more than one angle while fleeing the authorities he was simultaneously pursuing a new mistress named Georgina. Yoke twenty four year old. Georgie Anna was a beautiful department store. Employees homes may have met at the world's fair unsurprisingly. He began their relationship with a complex series of lies. He initially told Georgina his name was H. M. Howard when she found out he commonly went by homes. He made up a spectacular excuse. He explained that he had changed his original name on the last wishes of his uncle. Supposedly also named H. M. Howard. He told Georgina that his uncle had recently passed away and left him some property in Texas. That could only be collected. If he changed his name to match his uncle's it was a complex but ingenious lie because the property homes referenced actually did exist. It had belonged to his last mistress many. Williams now deceased homes was apparently convincing enough that Georgina bought the bizarre story. Their relationship intensified as the drama around the sixty third street fire grew the pay homes had hoped for never came to pass and the insurance companies pressed for him to be held accountable for the blaze. After some research homes found he couldn't be arrested for arson unless the charges were filed within a year of the fire he decided the best course of action would be skipped town until the heat died down thus in late November of eighteen. Ninety three homes left Mirta and his four-year-old daughter behind without an explanation. Then he and Georgina hit the road to Texas. Of course Georgina was in the dark about the real reasons for their departure to get her out of town homes told her he needed to go to Texas to claim the property his uncle had left him. Georgina and homes were ultimately headed to Fort Worth Texas but along the way they stopped in Denver Colorado too hastily get married on January seventeenth. Eighteen ninety four the two were wed in a small ceremony. This may Georgina. At least the fourth woman to believe she was married to homes though technically he never legally divorced his first wife from Colorado. The newlyweds made their way to Fort Worth and met up with an associate of homes from Chicago. Benjamin pizer will. He was a seedy character. Who had collaborated with homes on a number of minor schemes over the years? No he had come to Texas to further their partnership and lay the foundation for their latest scheme inheriting many Williams property using forged documents and an alias. Pizer will manage to transfer the deed for the land from many two homes. Then they began constructing a new building on the property. It's not clear what homes intended to do with the property. Once it was completed he probably planned on making it a storage space and a home base for his various scams. Just like he'd done in Chicago but no matter what the plans were. They were once again. Foiled by homes inability to stop his constant scamming in addition to buying materials for the building on credit he started renting bicycles and then selling them off without returning them as the heat on him. Increased homes traveled around Texas with Georgia Anna and pilots all buying horses with phony collateral and then immediately reselling them. Local law enforcement finally caught onto his latest swindle and began looking into it eventually. They figured out that many was missing. That homes may have something to do with it but by that time homes was already gone. He knew he was being investigated and hurriedly left Texas in May of eighteen ninety four this time he was bound for Saint Louis Missouri. Homes was now wanted for crimes in at least two states. He had outfox authorities in Illinois and Texas but apparently Missouri was different story. After just a few weeks in Saint Louis. He was arrested for the first time in his life he'd taken out multiple mortgages and loans against the same property there and was caught before he could leave town. It took homes a month to secure bail money but he was finally released from jail on July thirty first. He promptly skipped town in slipped into Philadelphia in early August. His stint in jail hadn't done much to tempers. Criminal Ambitions once pilots will join him in Philadelphia on August seventeenth. He and Holmes cooked up their most daring scam ever. They plan to fake titles deaf. Pull a bait and switch with a medical cadaver and then collect on a life insurance policy outwardly. It was similar to Akon homestead conceived of after graduating from medical school. This time though homes was determined to collect the insurance money whether or not he could find a substitute body on September. First eighteen ninety four homes went up to Pisces apartment. He likely found pizer already intoxicated as he was known to be a heavy drinker. Homes easily plied pilots. All with more drinks until he had almost passed out once his friend was unable to fight. Back homes killed Pied cels slowly using chloroform with pizer dead on the floor. Homes broke a bottle of flammable chemical and set it next to his body along with the match into pipe he then burnt piles face and hair trying to make it look like pipes will head died an accidental explosion while lighting his pipe. Once the scene had been set homes rushed back to his apartment to get Georgina and the two of them headed back to Saint Louis. They had to fetch pineapples family so they could identify his body for the Insurance Company. Homes arrived in Saint Louis of few days later to find Mrs Pizer Leonard Children Distraught. They'd heard about her husband's death in the newspaper. And when Holmes arrived claiming to have news about Benjamin Mrs Pike. People panicked all over again. It took some doing but homes eventually managed to persuade her. That pizer was actually alive and well just in hiding. He told Mrs Pizer they had worked together to fake his death and that she needed to come back to Philadelphia to identify the phony corpse so they could all collect the insurance money. Because Mrs Pizer was sick at the time she decided to send her fifteen year old daughter Alice to identify the body. Instead a couple of weeks later. Alice met homes back in Philadelphia and on September. Twenty second the two of them went to the morgue. She positively identified the body as that of her father and homes collected the Insurance Money. Out of the seventy two hundred dollar payout. He sent only five hundred dollars back to Mrs Pile Sol but that wasn't the end of his involvement with the family. Mrs Pyeho believed your husband would eventually come out of hiding rejoin them. Homes was only too happy to help an offer to handle the relocation arrangements for the entire family. He told them that Benjamin would meet them in Indianapolis to start their new life. It's clear homes planned on picking the Pied cels off one by one from the start but it's unknown why he was so intent on killing them. It's most likely he simply considered Mrs Pile and her five children. Final loose threads people who knew too much about him and his criminal schemes when they reached Indianapolis on October tenth homes took Howard pyle to a house. He had rented a suburb outside the city they are. He'd set up a stove and cook the boy his last meal and laced with poison. It's not a surprise. That homes poisoned many of his victims as forensic psychologist Dr Lori. Johnston writes convicted. Poisoners also tend to have a sense of inadequacy for which they compensate through a scorn. For Authority. A strong need for control wish fulfillment fantasies and a self-centered exploitive interpersonal style. All of these could be used to describe homes who loved to flout the rules and dominate. Everyone he came across his actions. Prove him to be entirely self centered and his numerous cons show that he was only interested in other people as long as he could exploit them. Reports differ on whether homes poisoned Howard using cyanide wolf's bane cocaine or chloroform whatever. He gave the boy. It must've worked quickly when he was dead. Homes burned bits of his body in the stove and buried some in a nearby barn. Two days later homes convince the pilots to travel again. Benjamin could no longer meet them in Indianapolis instead they would meet him in. Toronto homes told the rest of the family that he'd left Howard in the care of his cousin many Williams and that he would rejoin the family. Soon meanwhile back in Philadelphia one insurance investigator began having doubts about the story of Benjamin Pineapples death. He successfully convinced the company president to hire the Pinkerton Detective. Agency to pursue homes at investigate. The matter further bill homes wasn't aware he had Pinkerton on his trail. He did suspect that he was running out of time before his crimes were discovered spinning yet. Another yarn. About how. Benjamin pile was under too much heat from the authorities to meet the family in Toronto as planned homes convinced Mrs Pike to rush to New York. Along with baby warden. After she was gone he set to work. Getting rid of the elder girls. Fifteen year old. Alice and sixteen-year-old year old. Nellie he took them both to a rented house on the night of October. Twenty fifth and murder them again. It's unclear how homes killed the girls but he likely did it with poison the same as Howard. He put the bodies in shallow graves in the cellar and burn their clothing. The furnace after killing Nellie and Alice homes next moves are somewhat of a mystery. He and Georgina traveled around Canada. And the northern United States for the next few weeks always closely followed by detectives on November thirteenth. He resurfaced in Boston and made plans to stay there. For an extended period homes had neglected to pay attention to the people pursuing him with the help of the Pinkerton Agency. The Boston police arrested him on November seventeenth. The initial charge was horse. Thievery a holdover from his days in Texas but homes knew that was just an excuse to get him into custody soon. Detectives delved deeper into homes life and he was asked to explain where many and nanny Williams had gone over the next few months homes told a number of conflicting stories. He lied repeatedly about where the Williams sisters were. Whether Benjamin Pints on his children were still alive and about his activities in Chicago. It was obvious. Homes wasn't being entirely truthful in his supposed confessions but it was difficult to separate fact from fiction. Police still haven't found any hard evidence which implicated homes in murder though. Everyone suspected him of it. All that changed in July eighteen ninety five when Nellie and Alice piles bodies were found in the cellar of the home. Homes rented in Toronto homes could no longer claim. The girls were secretly still alive hiding out with their father when he learned the bodies had been discovered homes responded. Well I guess the hang me for this. They did in October. Homes was put on trial for murdering Benjamin pizer and was sentenced to be hanged after the sentence. Police decided not to pursue charges for the deaths of Alice and Nellie but homes wasn't done enjoying his time in the spotlight now with nothing to lose. He gave a new confession to hearst newspaper this time claiming to have murdered twenty seven people during a life home said whatever he could do become infamous. The newspaper paid him. Seven thousand five hundred dollars for the tell all confession but it was later found to be largely fabricated. In fact some of the people homes claimed to have murdered in his confession. Were still living at the time afterward homes even claimed he was possessed by Satan sensational reports continued to circulate until they were rumors he'd killed hundreds of people in his so called Murder Castle. All the lies and press bathing mant cemented. His legacy as one of history's MOST NOTORIOUS VILLAINS. But it didn't help him escape. Justice on May seventh 1896 homeless was hanged in Philadelphia since then stories about homes have proliferated often taking his false confessions at face value and since station leising his crimes. In some ways he's become the symbol of the American serial killer. A seemingly unstoppable depraved monster but while he was undoubtedly evil beneath all the hype h h Holmes was really just to bid fraud. Thanks again for tuning into serial killers will be back Monday with a new episode for more information on H H Holmes. Looks many sources we used. We found the book. H H Holmes. True history of the White City Devil by Adam Seltzer extremely helpful. To our research you can find more episodes of serial killers and all other car cast originals for free on spotify. Not only does spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy. All of your favorite podcast originals. Like serial killers for free from your own desktop or smart speaker to stream. Serial killers on spotify. Just open the APP and type serial killers in the search bar. Several view of asked how to help the show. And if you enjoy the show the best way to help is to leave a five star review and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at par cast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see next time. Have a killer week. Serial killers was created by Max Cutler is a podcast studios original executive producers include Max and Ron Cutler sound designed by Juan Boorda with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Freddie Beckley. This episode of serial killers was written by Tara Wells with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon and stars Greg Poulsen and Vanessa Richardson.
S2 E1: The Mad Yorkshireman
"We're living in an age when a high priority is placed upon achievement and success through social media our failures whether a new recipe or career choice are often hidden or spun into successes for some people. External motivations seems to be demanded every day in cubicles and offices around the world. You'll find posters with Soaring Eagles or people surfing huge waves or standing on the summit of some remote peak and they'll be slogans like determination defeats failure. It's not the destination it's the journey. You're not failing when you're trying your best. None of these proclamations are even remotely. True determination is an attribute. It's not a guarantee of success in trying hard just means you're trying hard that's all a failure is not transformed into a success. Just because you tried hard if you sit out for a destination then. The destination is the success. You can have a nice time along the way but you haven't succeeded just because you're on your way. The destination is the goal and achieving the goal defines the success and just trying as not succeeding if you have no skill or no ability and lack true determination ambition you can trial you want but you will fail now. I'm not saying failure is the end of the world or even should be the end of your quest put. Failure is in no way form of success. We've become obsessed with success but we also secretly love to watch super ambitious. People fail some watch. Auto racing for the crashes and we watch Big Wave Surfing for the wipeouts but we seem to admire the best but after a while they make us feel inadequate and we get tired of being faced with what we believe is our own mediocrity though we post small things like a picture of homemade soup on social media and we tell ourselves that this is good as the person who swam the English Channel or ran across Canada by himself. We never see more than a few attempts in a few years away from being astounded and then once again bored and dismissive by any achievement. Running the four minute mile the land speed record of seven hundred and sixty three miles an hour breaking the sound barrier in in an airplane going to the moon. All these things were big deals in a couple of months later when they weren't now. Mount Everest has always been the benchmark for things that seem hard and unattainable even now people use Everest as a metaphor for things that are really hard and seemingly impossible. Nineteen thirty-three Maurice. Wilson was ready to take his obsession to the highest mountain on Earth. This season we're going to take a look at the man known as the Mad Yorkshireman in his obsession. Be the first human to stand on the summit highest mountain honor. My Name's John Version. This is the high you ahead. Lou Williams season two episode one of the High Adventure podcast in season. One we looked at the nineteen. Seventy seventy seventy pot plane crash. And the impact. That event had on the local climbing community in Yosemite as well as economy of California. If you haven't listened to season one I hope you'll go back and give that one. A try. Season was a huge success. I'm thrilled with all the people around the world who took a listen to that and contacted me and sent me questions and comments and gave five stars on all your podcast catchers. I really appreciate that. I wanted to follow that season up with an equally compelling story. I think we found one. I know it's been awhile between seasons and I heard all of your comments and got all of your e mails about win season. Two's going to start well here. It is I apologize for taking so long to get this thing off the ground but it took a while to do the research on this one and we have a few other projects going on that. We'll be talking about a little later in the season. We've got a new website. We've got a new web series. There's another podcast coming out. Lots of stuff in the works that will keep you up to speed on his. Those projects develop our audiences continued to grow. And that's exciting. We have listeners. In over seventy five countries now from Finland Mexico and Lebanon to the Cook Islands South Africa to Morocco to Japan and Brazil. We've got listeners. In all fifty states to WanNa thank you for listening in working on a few things that will help enhance our output this year including the launch of an additional podcasts. As I mentioned before as always I'd appreciate if you follow us on facebook or twitter instagram. Keep posting those reviews. Those five star reviews really help us they push US further up the recommended list. Then that helps us grow our audience and we'll continue to post our shows on both video in Youtube. Both these channels are under our company name of productions if you're searching the web for those two channels as I mentioned at the outset we're going to tell the story of Maurice Wilson. Maurice was a bold bold guy and very determined and I'd say he was actually obsessed with being the first person to summit Mount Everest not necessarily one of the things that was high on a lot of people's lists back in nineteen thirty three but for Murray's this was the deal but his lack of experience in anything involving adventure travel and mountaineering to him. Seemed unimportant but this was a time. When exploration fever was very high all around the world partly due air travel becoming more available the world was logistically getting smaller but still a very dangerous place a lot of corners of this planet. Let's just take a minute to put ourselves in Maurice Wilson? Shoes is was ultimately what his plan was. Now if you had never climbed a mountain or piloted a plane. Do you think your dream might be to fly to Mount Everest in self modified biplane flying over restricted airspace without permission and a fly through storms over open ocean. Only to find that you're prohibited from entering your destination country that you must get through to achieve your goal of climbing the world's highest mountain. Most of you probably would say no. I don't want anything to do with anything like that. I want to be in a drinking a mild breeze but Maurice Wilson was a different kind of guy now in two thousand eighteen. Were approximately eight. Hundred climbers at attempt to climb Mount Everest and about five hundred of them made it to the summit three hundred. Those were Sherpa guides. More than four thousand people have summited. Everest since nineteen fifty three in about three hundred of died trying and then number continues to grow both in successes and in-depth the chance of dying on Everest. Burn experienced climber in twenty eighteen was about seven percent but if you have no skill no training no talent I would see. Your chances of dying are a hundred percent but before we launch ourselves into the dangers of traveling the Himalayas. Let's get our bearings on the time and place of Maurice Wilson Story the Gregorian calendar says it's nineteen thirty three. The Bengali calendar says. It's thirteen forty. The Korean calendar has us at forty to sixty six. The calendar used Nepal. It's nineteen eighty nine or fifty seven years ahead. Our Gregorian calendar the Tibetan calendar is a little more complex and it's based on lunar cycles and a bit of math hijinks to get the dates so the Gregorian nineteen thirty three becomes twenty fifty nine or sixteen. Seventy eight or nine zero six. The word or between the numbers is the official an accurate reading of the Tibetan calendar. So try to figure that one out. I gave it a shot. I'm just relating the news. I I couldn't wrap my mind around how they got to that so we'll call it. Nineteen thirty three. So we're all on the same page while. Maurice Wilson was fasting and developing idea of climbing and climb -able mountain the Gestapo was established in Germany and Adolf. Hitler was made dictator. The first concentration camp was opened to dock cow and later that year. Hitler declared his intentions for a state-sponsored People's car which you know now as the Volkswagen Beetle while in nineteen thirty three in Japan machine gun was demonstrated with fire. Two thousand rounds per minute that was going to have serious ramifications about eight or nine years later in the UK physicist Leo says Lard came up with the idea that nuclear chain reaction was possible. Later with Enrico Fermi decided than atomic bomb could be made with Uranium Wiley. Post became the first person to fly solo around the world in the US the Eighteenth Amendment was created and prohibition was repealed and the Depression was at its worst year with unemployment hitting twenty five percent work on the Golden Gate Bridge began in Alcatraz became of that repented. Tintri Albert Einstein emigrated to the US from Germany and the world's fair opened in Chicago that nineteen thirty-three world's fair also hosted Dr h h Holmes known as the first modern serial killer. When we come back we'll begin. The story of Mores Wilson Obsession. That could and would take his life. I assume you're listening to this podcast because you enjoy a good adventure story along with the high adventure. Podcast accidental productions has produced a number of films in the web series L. Cap Bridge which features discussions with famous and not so famous climbers that. Hang out in what's called. The center of the Universe are feature film assault and El Capitain. Takes you up on the second ascent of wings of steel with legendary big climber. Ammon mcneely as he tries to solve the mystery of the most controversial climb and you semi history. Climate involve lies and deception even attempted murder assault okay. Baton is available on streaming services and platforms everywhere in his free on Amazon prime. Now back to our story welcome back. Worries Wilson's quest began in the county of Yorkshire in the UK in Nineteen thirty three. George V was king and the diagram for the Lyndon underground was introduced to the public. The average price for a house was about five hundred. Pounds in the average yearly salary was about one hundred forty three pounds. The average car costs almost three hundred pounds and nearly the same price as a house. But in nineteen thirty. Two Maurice Wilson was in a decline. He was having a hard time finding a purpose in a balance in his life after a couple of failed marriages and the onslaught of serious depression and some symptoms of tuberculosis. Maurice was at a crossroads. He was looking for a corner in his life that he could turn and find some sunshine once again after many years of darkness. Today we'd call it. More reasons condition was is depression. He was certainly suffering from. Ptsd or what they call them. World War One a shell shock later in World War Two. They call it battle fatigue but no question. Maria was in a fight battling demons both internal and external nineteen thirty two Maurice Medic. Healer and that meeting would change the trajectory of his life. The healer advised Maurice too fast for thirty five days. He was only take a few sips of water. Each day to pray to God to be reborn. He followed the advice of the healer to the letter and at the end of the thirty five days he emerged with a new perspective and he was mentally stronger than he'd been in a long time so he set off the black forest where he would continue to recuperate and try to regain the physical strength that he'd had before the war for the first time in many years where he's felt peace and happiness with his high spirits at a level that he had not experienced in many years he felt that his mission to spread this feeling to all of mankind. That's a lofty goal. But Maurice Combining his mental rebirth in his physical rehabilitation. Felt like this was being his wheelhouse. Maurice was concerned about the suffering and misery that existed in the world aware that it would be difficult for him to spread his message that he himself had found the answer for anyone who is struggling physically mentally emotionally or spiritually. This was a guy who fasted for thirty five days recovered in the black forest to a level of which he thought was a very high level but now felt the need is going to spread this message to everyone. But how is he going to do that what he felt he needed to do? Now was to tell the world that he'd found. The answer was nearly thirty five years old. He felt that he was the peak of his mental and physical condition. He had some physical problems. And we'll get into those a little bit later but I wouldn't exactly call the condition. He was in a peak of anything so in a cafe and Freiburg. He realized what he had to do now is to focus his physical and spiritual awareness for the benefit of the rest of the world. He would do this by doing some sort of demonstration to inspire everyone and he felt that the best way to do that was to climb Mount Everest Solo. That was his goal. And that's what he thought would inspire the entire world to shed themselves of many mental impairments and he spiritual questioning and then he physical disabilities that they would have to overcome this inspiration in this effort. Was what it was going to take. If he could succeed. It would demonstrate to the entire world the power of his bait. Keep in mind that there have been several large well funded expeditions to try to summit. Everest all had failed and all had come with a tremendous loss of life of the best strongest young mountaineers. In the world previous Maurice's attempt one man had tried to climb Everest Solo in May nineteen twenty nine F armer. Who was a young American climber from New Rochelle New York set off from Darjeeling in what can only be called as a suicidal attack on? I'm going to butcher this name. This is the third highest mountain in the world. Kang Shin Hunger is what I'm GONNA call it. I know that butchered that pronunciation. But it was the third highest mountain in the world. And it twenty-eight thousand feet it was in the same neighborhood Everett's anyway Mr Farmer headed into the clouds and was never seen again but did he make it to the summit. Probably not. No one really knows. We'll talk about George malary's attempt on Everest in a later episode in the controversy surrounding that attempted the possibility that he'd made it to the summit some thirty years before Hillary was credited with being the first to summit Everest. But that's a controversial topic and again we'll talk about that a little later Maurice. Wilson's life journey began long before he decided to conquer the world's highest mountain nineteen thirty-three we'd become the year that define not only Maurice but also his philosophy and his spiritual path climbing. Mount Everest is a monumental undertaking even by today's modern standards only the elite few climbers ever think of climbing Everest alone and only the elite of the elite actually attempt to climb Everest alone in nineteen thirty three. It seemed like a completely insane scheme that might pop up in a dream or after a long night in the pub. Maurice Wilson never dreamed about it and as a teetotaler never went to the pub. His plan was simple flight into bed. Land the mountains lower slopes then continue on foot to the summit and make history Moris however had no climbing experience was not a pilot and never flown a plane put. Murray's felt that climbing Mount Everest was his destiny and that God would guide his feet up a Himalayan rocks and across the glaciers to the highest point on Earth Nineteen. Thirty two was the year more. He's Wilson made his decision in nineteen thirty three. He began his quest. Would take him to the slopes of Everest in May of nineteen thirty four. The nineteen thirties breast at already dubbed him. The Mad Yorkshireman during the summer of nineteen thirty. Two Maurice Returned England from Germany's black forest. After years of despair and aimlessness Maurice's friends were relieved to see that he seemed to be cheerful and claim to be fully restored. Both mentally and physically. He was on a high eager tells friends and anyone who would listen about asking in his belief in its purity and strength effects. He also had a new faith and believe that this new found strength and his rediscovered faith would lead him to the summer of Evers and the by product of that accomplishment would be inspire people around the world to pursue their dreams. That's a noble noble effort. But would it work? I don't know. Are you inspired by other people's achievements? Maybe this was a very bold statement by Maurice. It was a noble effort in desire but maybe relying a little too much on the power of faith getting through the life threatening situations. He's GonNa face on really one of the most hostile environments on earth his friends per concerned by Maurice's desire but They were encouraged by his focus and his newfound determination they supported him every way they could but they recognized the enormity of this challenge. Perhaps they were figuring that he never really would get to the mountain face any real danger. After all he was in England he had no experience. His plan was to fly this plane and climb this mountain and he didn't have any experience doing in that. So maybe they just sort of placated them a little bit and it might seem like flying to a mountain. Landing and walking to the top is outrageous idea but remember the times. This was nineteen thirty two and after World War One when planes had become a weapon and were a real tool in society. It seemed that this might be a reasonable way to attack. Such a monumental task wealth and confidence had increased following World War. One and men and women were flying to distant and exotic locations within days when previously these journeys took months when travelling by sear overland. The people of the time who had experience were one both on the front lines and in support of that war. They felt empowered. Some felt they could do anything and others felt that after the trauma the war they had cheated death. They had nothing to lose. And were in some way invincible. Maurice had a bit both in him. He had that determination that was brought out by his time in the black forest and further by the healer he'd met convinced him to do his thirty five days of fasting. But it's hard to know what was real in Maurice's life and what was the manipulation by manipulation. I mean both by others and by his own. Mind his service in World War One was certainly a contributing factor in his behaviors and also perhaps a cause of his troubled life leading up to his journey to go on this quest to be the most famous mountaineer of his time. Maurice Wilson was not always thrill seeker Nordea any particular desire to leader inspire people me. Maurice Wilson was born in eighteen ninety eight in Bradford England. His parents mark and Sarah Wilson had four boy. Mark was a principal owner of a wool manufacturing business as a successful businessman. He'd hoped his sons would all go into the family business where he started his apprenticeship. His father's business in nineteen fourteen. Things were all going for. Everyone is planned and everyone was healthy and successful and happy but that changed in nineteen sixteen for the wilsons as it did for a lot of families in Nineteen Sixteen Maurice turned eighteen and enlisted in the fifth Battalion of the West Yorkshire Regiment. If you're not up on your World War One history. There are a few podcasts. And now a couple of movies that will give you a good taste of what it was really like. Dan Carlin's hardcore history has probably the most extensive retelling of the events in the conflicts of that Great War. He's also a great film on Netflix. Called they shall not grow. Old was directed by Peter Jackson who previously directed the Lord of the Rings series restored and remastered original footage in some first person narrator. It's hard to imagine that this war was actually fought in the way it was waged. The stories coming out of World War One alone give. Ptsd not to mention. Would it must have been like for those really really young men who according their governments were disposable these poor guys were ranging in age from fourteen to. They're very early. Twenties in nineteen seventeen. Maurice was promoted and commissioned as a second lieutenant and sent to France to fight. He was sent into the bloody quagmire of the Battle of passion. Del passchendaele would British historian. Aj Taylor called the blindell slaughter of a blind war bodies of the dead were used as stepping stones and the rats brew fat on Human Flesh. These images are well documented. And they're horrific. Maurice fought hard in this five month battle remember. He was eighteen bit less than a year of military training at this point and leading a group of young men through what must have looked and felt like the apocalypse his bravery at one a military broth when after all the men around him were dead he single handedly held his position against what was called a fierce enemy assault. A few months later during the same battle Maurice was hit with a burst of machine. Gunfire the bullets rip through his arms and chest though close to death. He was evacuated recovered and went back and served as a captain his regiment until the Armistice Maurice was left with a weakened in partially immobile left arm that would give him pain for the rest of his life and as we spoke before he battled to Berkeley losses and at one point had a nervous breakdown. This was all before deciding to take on the greatest adventure of his time that would in his mind inspire the entire world. The emotional pain he suffered was unknown. Perhaps even to himself but he seemingly spent the rest of his life battling that trauma it's psychological demons that possessed him and he those drove him now with the fuel that made him take one more step like George Mallory and other people who took extreme risks at the time. Now we call them extreme athletes in previous times. They were called daredevil. The soldiers who returned after World War. One brought home with them. Terrible intimacy with death almost a comfort in perhaps a lack of fear surrounding returning to his home in Bradford after the war Murray's felt disconnected from the people who had not served in the trenches or seen what he'd seen he felt separated from individuals but society itself in what poet Herbert re described as a great scene of horror and violation. That left veterans feeling like exiles in a strange land. He was twenty years old. The nineteen twenties were time for. Maurice became isolated in became a curious figure everywhere he went he spent some time in America and a couple of other places but ultimately he landed in New Zealand where he'd hoped he'd find peace and would be able to settle down with a family Internet episode. We'll take a look at Mount Everest as a destination and examine Maurice's transition from small business owner and family man to daredevil and with ideas of becoming an international inspiration. I'm just oh man. He told this on his bed. Wash in pig Ju. Shou products overnight. Smoke ends Johnson Sean. No my brother says
No Bones About It: The Human Skeleton, Revealed
"Support for NPR and the following message come from Amazon prime video with Llerena the new docu series that shares Lorena Bobbitt side of the story and investigates the headlines and press coverage twenty five years later lorraina now streaming on Amazon prime video. This is one A. I'm Joshua Johnson in Greeley, Colorado. It's a place to watch your step in this town about an hour drive north of Denver, ice patches are everywhere. The last thing I want is to slip and break a bone something. That's never happened to me. Thank goodness. But which I've seen on TV millions of us did back in two thousand thirteen when university of Louisville basketball player Kevin ware suffered a gruesome injury during a game. Doesn't were just took a shot on my goodness. That is a gruesome looking injury Kevin ware. Look at his teammates reaction to it. He's dislocated some portion of his leg there. Jim part of wears calf bone, his fibula hopped out of his skin. He has since recovered and he's playing pro basketball overseas now, but the video of the injury is extremely hard to watch. And yet people watched it over and over there's something about our bones that fascinates us and has throughout our history. What makes our skeletons so unique, and what do they teach us about our species and ourselves joining us from K U E R public radio in Salt Lake City is Brian sweet tech, the author of Stettin keys the secret life of bone. He also writes about fossils for scientific American on the blog lay laps. Brian. Welcome to one aim. Oh, it's a pleasure to be here. You know, we just heard that moment that went viral where millions of people were kind of horrified and captivated by the sight of that bone the fibula pop. Ping out. Clearly, there's something about human bones that fascinates us, especially in the movies. There's this new movie glass that just came out where Samuel Jackson reprised his role from the film unbreakable. Here's a clip from unbreakable in which the villain, Mr. glass, suffers from osteo Genesis imperfect, which makes his bones. Very fragile. Listen. See this. The presence. You'll maybe sustained some. Fractions. Zones in his legs are broke. A clip from some of the villains back story in the movie unbreakable. Why do you think there is this cultural fascination around bones, Brian, you know, it's it's somewhat hard to say because it has to do with the poetry abound. The way that it looks this evolutionary architecture that not only lives inside us, but you know, all over to Brits all sorts of animals from you know, frogs are the size of a fly to dinosaurs group to be over one hundred feet long. And I think bone makes us ask questions. You know, why do we have it was due was anchored to house allows to move and and growl at and there's something aesthetically wonderful about it. But I think it really draws some of our persistent questions about natural history. And who we are and how we got here out in the permanence Abon, as well, the fact that you know, it's one of the few things of ourselves that can last for millions and millions of years after we pass away Intel or stories, I think that's certainly part of the draws. Well, are there any particular breakthroughs that are top of? Mind for you in terms of what human bones have taught us about human beings. You know, I think a lot to do with our history. And where we came from that, you know, we are not an exception that just popped into being that we have a long and interconnected evolutionary history that we can look at our own bones and the skeletons of oh species and see some of the same bones. This is concept called homologation or because of common ancestry. I can look at, you know, my dog jet when I'm home, he's a German shepherd and know that in his skull has some of the same like, you know, frontal bones, just like, I have frontal boundary as feminine thigh bones. Just like I do and this connects us to each other in terms of understanding ourselves more specifically just what's possible in terms of our culture, and what we've created is sort of allowed and defined by our bounds. So for example, the fact that we have a base ten counting system and many cultures relies on the fact that we have ten fingers, and as an evolutionary accident or the fact that, you know, something like baseball the fact that someone can throw a fastball or throw overhand is allowed by the fact that because of our an. Others, you know, five million years ago who lived in the trees, and we're moving in a very different way from us got this flexibility that we inherited that opened up the world into certain ways in certain activities that would have been possible, otherwise so that our skeletons limit us in some ways, but also made so much of our culture possible with regards to the cultural place that bones, hold Jose tweeted us a question. We'll get to that. After you hear this. Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from legalzoom business owners can count on legalzoom for legal advice and no surprises over two million. Business owners have trusted legalzoom for LLC's escorts and DB's as they built a network of independent attorneys available in all fifty states and legal zoom provides complete transparency with upfront pricing and customer reviews to bring you peace of mind. More information is available at legalzoom dot com slash NPR this season unin visibile, should we empathize with our enemies fem oid should die. Is it? Okay. To have machines control, our emotions, I should be creeped out. But at this impounded lake will thank God. I live in this day and age, no, easy answers. Just the right questions invisible. You back on Marci. Back now to our conversation with Brian sweet tech. Jose tweeted us a question in Spangler. And I'll do my best. Jose tweeted dealer, sweat, does is full of skeletal imagery is mobile that spectacle. It's a form of respect and acceptance of death case on Los American equivalents of this tradition. What are the American equivalents of this tradition? Is there anything in American culture that compares Brian with other cultural recognitions cultural ceremonies like the lowest dose in Mexico or others? You know, I haven't yet come across anything quite like that in our American culture so far. In fact, I called out de Las Myrtos in the book as a great example as a positive association of bone because I feel like in, you know, mainstream American culture, we usually only see bones at least in their cultural representations when something has gone wrong or has as a symbol of the afterlife. So you see it on, you know. The Roger pirate flag, or you know, poisoned labels or death metal album covers and stuff. And I've got quite a few, you know, t shirts in that mode myself, and we usually think of it as representing death something that's that's afterlife some that static something that's very final. And what I like about dealers Martos and other expressions is it gets up the vitality of bones, the bones are alive, and they're very much connected to us, and I'd love to see more of that cultural shift occur in our society. Speaking of cultural observances, it's it can't be overstated how important that bones and burial sites are to indigenous peoples here in the United States and elsewhere. And last week the F B I revealed that in two thousand fourteen it uncovered this huge collection of human bones and other artifacts in the basement of a rural farmhouse in Indiana. This is agent. Tim carpenter talking about the raid to CBC radio in Canada. We were not prepared for the amount of human remains that we discovered on the property. I suspect they'll be working on this case after I'm retired. That's FBI agent. Tim carpenter speaking to the CBC now the collection contained five hundred sets of mostly native American human bones that were likely looted from burial grounds. Not five hundred bones five hundred sets of bones, and the F B I made the raid public because it says it needs help figuring out where the remains came from Brian. How common is this kind of looting of stealing human skeletons? It's incredibly common, it's really tragically common at something that I'm sure, you know, even some listeners right now, you know, a relative or or some has been passed down in their family to a literal skeleton in the closet or. In the attic. And you know, it's something that has extended this looting mentality that existed from the early days of anthropology in the science of studying people through the late nineteenth century where it started out as you know, really just trying to build museum collections trying to push people into certain racial categories and rank them, and you know, this misguided aspect of that science. But then continued from there where it was kinda paternalistic and colonialistic view that, you know, indigenous cultures need to be preserved. So this is the, you know, if they might go extinct, we need to have these bodies and these artifacts. And of course, that's terrible. And that's not true and since been reverse, but did incredible damage to these communities who were already oppressed. And you know, this continues this is not, you know, even though the collection that this one particular person had was exceptional in its extent. The number of people who. Probably have human remains have been passed down in their family. And no one knows where they came from is probably quite common with regards to the history behind bone collection. There was an anthropologist named Samuel Morton back in the eighteen hundreds who collected around nine hundred human skulls. Tell us a little bit more about Samuel Morton. So Morten has often been held in anthropology textbooks and sort of Laura's like the objective of his time. So he came out with a series of books where he was trying to basically look at Endo cranial capacity. The capacity inside the skull that would have held the brain is relatively tight fit between brain and skull and figure out the races of people thought there five races of people and make those divisions on the basis of skull volume. And he's often been using the examples like you just took the measurements. He didn't theorize. He didn't hypothesize he and say anything else about he just here's the data. And that's it. But we know about science, and how it works is that there's fact, and there's theory and the way that you interpret facts are what you observe depends very much on your cultural background, and what you think can how you're trained, and you know, it's a case of basically garbage in garbage out. So even though Morton didn't extend from his data to say, okay. People should be ranked in the certain way in no problem with other people doing this during the nineteenth century. And that's basically upshot of what his research became turns out, as you know, the SAS and paleontologist, Stephen, Jay Gould, pointed out in a book called the mismeasure of man that in Morton's experiments, he did some with mustard seed, I and he found out that was too malleable, he's getting different results. And he switched to lead shot. Eventually when you compared these two measuring techniques Morton was you know, perhaps unintentionally, but one way or the other suppressing the volumes base at the brain sizes of what he thought of as lower ranking? Now, we know that you know, racism, social and societal construct that there's no biological backing for any of this. Right, right. But this was highly influential at the time these books were not just scientific arcane a- these were popular in used to support some really reprehensible social programs people who supported slavery often cited Morton's work. It was a really terrible episode in the history of anthropology Peter commented on our website, the one eight dot org can the guest's comment on the relationship between the global trade in human remains and war. I studied in a department of anatomy in the eighties. Once I entered the office of a faculty member while he was unpacking, a skeleton examining, the skull the one, he was unpacking. He believed to be a young male of East Asian descent in his twenties with perfect teeth most likely from Indo China a result of the wars and their aftermath there. I sadly, fear human bones entering today's market may hail from the mass graves of the Middle East, Brian. Yeah. I don't have as much experience with specific cases like that. But there has been a long tradition of human remains and skeletons being taken from from these tragedies in these conflicts, you know, even back into the heyday of the pseudoscience called phonology, which was basically a forerunner to it. Morton was was trying to do where you know conflicts, for example, in South Africa with the shosha people that the dead from those conflicts, the skulls would be taken, and then measured, you know, sort of the shape of the outside of the skull was believed to show certain aspects of intelligence or behavior, and then used a further oppress those people who are already being oppressed by the colonizers. So there's been a long history of this. And there is quite a persistent what journalists Scott Carney is called the red market trade in human body parts, including bones throughout the role in you know, it's close as your. Phone that you can go on Instagram, and if you know the right tags to look at her to follow you can win two three, you know, by a human skull or finger, bones, or whatever it is. Because the trade. Some exceptions involving native American remains involving remains of forensic interest is largely legal up the ethical. I certainly don't think that it has. But based upon where you are in your state laws. It may be perfectly easy to by human skeleton of unknown origin. I'm glad you mentioned Instagram. I was just gonna ask you about the role of the web and social media. But as it relates to native American remains, and we will talk more generally about bones in just a bit. But there are some laws that govern the treatment of tribal remains particularly I wanted to ask you about the native American graves, protection and repatriation act. What does that do? Right. So this was an effort it got enacted in nineteen ninety and there's a recent update in two thousand and. Ten and it was a way to try and make some progress against what we were just talking about this culture of looting and collection that existed for so long and repatriating remains of native Americans indigenous peoples back to the cultures and the Lance from which they came and this has been an ongoing process, and it's one of these you know, laws that it wants to help. But it seems to make nobody happy. It's you know, if you talk to some native American groups who believe gives too much leeway to science, and that that they have to do so much to prove kinship that sometimes can see seem insurmountable, and some anthropologists and archaeologists feel that, you know, specimens, you know. And that's the way it's hard about specimens, not people but specimens are being lost to science, and we're we're not learning as much so everybody seems to be a bit grumpy about it, but it's part of an ongoing conversation. That's still continuing now that we're dealing with these nineteenth century problems at the beginning of the twentieth. Twenty-first century. About consent about you know, what skeletons are inter museums. How they got there. What to do with them Tyler tweeted, I separated my shoulder in a bike crash twenty years ago, the bones still do their jobs, but without the specific architecture of muscles tendons in veins, there are cliques and pressures and muscles that have had to compensate its reminder of how amazing and specific our skeletons are I think Brian would definitely agree with you Tyler that are solutions are indeed amazing and quite specific. And we'll get more into those specifics in a moment when we continue with Brian sweet tech. He is the author of the book skeleton keys, maybe heard a few years ago, they found the remains of Richard the third the former king of England they found them under a parking lot. They'd been paved over. We'll get into that story talk about what that tells us about the history of our bones, and we'll get some more of your questions than stories in just a moment. Stick loves. This message comes from NPR sponsor Cleveland Clinic. It's been two billion one hundred million heartbeats since Cleveland Clinic, performed the world's first modern coronary bypass surgery, which is just one of the reasons. Cleveland Clinic has been ranked number one in heart care in the nation for twenty four years, according to US news and World Report. But it doesn't stop there. New cardiovascular innovations are always being developed and tested at Cleveland Clinic for more information or to get a second opinion. Visit Cleveland Clinic dot org slash heart care hate it's Cairo's here. And on the latest episode of how I built this has squarespace founder Anthony, Selena came up with the idea for a better website publishing tool in his college dorm room, and since then built it into a company valued at one point seven billion dollars back now to our conversation with Brian sweet tech, author of the new book, skeleton, keys, the secret life of bone. We got quite a few messages from you about your. Experiences dealing with human bones, including on a medical level. Here's what one listener left in. Our inbox name is Shawn Dell and in medical school I worked in stab. And so not only do we have to go through cutting through tissue. I think my favorite part was songs about I don't know something about the crunch it. Thank you for sharing your story. Speaking of the anatomy, let me get back to that tweet that I just read from Tyler Tyler road. I separated my shoulder in a bike crash twenty years ago, the bones still do their jobs, but without the specific architecture of muscles tendons in veins, there are cliques and pressures and muscles that have had to compensate. It's a reminder of how amazing and specific our skeletons are Brian this is a real basic question. But could you just give us a clearer sense of what our bones do for our body? Yes, they hold up the framework of the rest of it. But they do it in a very intricate way. And they do more than that. Yeah. I mean, there are aspects of bone that affect just about every part of our lives. Like, so the story preceding our conversation and had to do with bone marrow. The fact that our bones contain marrow that create our blood cells. The fact that bone is incredibly responsive and can heal itself. And you know, much of the same way that our bones initially grow from the time that, you know, we're in the womb through adulthood, and you know, old age it's this system where bone is always being laid down. It's always being eaten up. It's always changing those responding to our environment. It, you know, protects us it protects. Our internal organs are ribs wrap around in our heart in her lungs, and so many other vital pieces. So is really this multifunctional tissue. That's much more dynamic than I think a lot of people understand with regards to our anatomy Collin tweeted, what's going on with our tail bones, Brian. What about the tailbone? Yeah. Well, those are you know, this vestige of your of luminary past. Yeah, they're just kind of along for the ride at this point. Yeah, there's they provide perhaps some anchor points for some muscles and soft tissues along with the other bones of our our hips in our in our lower backs. But it's really just this wonderful little clue that you know, millions and millions of years ago, our ancestors had tales. So I like this little tidbit of our deep pass that still there. Amanda tweeted, why do we treat bones more cavalierly than dead bodies? I think because part of the culture in which we've you bounds up they become collector's items. Because if you look at it human skull and really take a minute to look at it. There is a lot of personality there, even if you don't see the, you know, the eiser or the soft tissues or anything that would make it, you know, a full face that there's still so much personality there, I think that we've kind of gotten used to not questioning the fact that, you know, these are people that are the remains of people that there's been a mentality of the dead have no rights for, you know, hundreds of of years, I'm really just starting to change that now I had a conversation with a friend of mine who wanted to obtain human skeleton as an artistic reference, and we had a conversation very similar to what you and I have been talking about. And at the end of it. She said, you know, it's kind of funny that I give more thought to you know, the treatment of the chickens who laid the eggs that I get from the grocery store than the fact that you know, I want to buy. What you know is is a person. So I think a lot of this is just we haven't been investigating our own views and questioning ourselves about, you know, do we have a right to collect own human remains? And I think you know, that's something that's really just bubbling up is going to continue for some time. Well, and also, I think we should just be clear that a bone doesn't look like the person that belong to you know. I mean, if you saw me, you know, dead in a coffin, you would recognize it as me if you saw my skeleton laid out on a table in a cadaver lab, you'd have no way to tell who it is. It's almost like it allows a certain disconnection from the humanity of whoever was there is some distance through some disconnection. Although on the other hand some of this depends on expertise. I was at an event in Washington DC, where anthropologists friend of mine who had never met before who knew me from Twitter came up and said, I recognize you by the shape of your skull. So sometimes it's. That we're willing to go have some Pearl Magnin had or what? I haven't had the twenty three and tests done yet to see how much Neanderthal I've got probably got some being of, you know, western European descent, but that's the wonderful everyone. Western European descent has some I'm just wondering if you if you look like a caveman, I haven't been called beetle Browde yet. But I'll circle back if I do. Matt tweeted, Dr h h Holmes sold the bones of his victims to medical schools. What's that about you know, that story? Yeah. I think that is if I recall incorrectly that this was basically a murderous fellow who operated in Chicago during the time of the world's fair. And yeah, he, you know, killed a number of people, and then sold the remains, and that's gets back into the bone trade that, you know, fair number of skeletons or human remains that you might find for sale through various outlets came from a medical schools either closed or the accession some of their collections or some of what they used to teach with. And that's a question that's worth asking that. If you are, you know, interested or looking into, you know, buying human remains number one. I don't think it's particularly ethical to do. But if you are doing that like ask those questions like who was person where did this come from? What's the history so often, you know, these? Pieces are not only denuded of their Fleischer denuded of their history. We have no idea where they came from with regards to that Jim sentence in Email little graphic kind of specific nothing gruesome, but just fair. Warning Jim emailed a human skeleton from a doctor's office was offered at an auction. Recently, it came complete with a documented back story that the bones belonged to a murdered Parisian prostitute. And indeed it was possible to see the knife marks on her sternum the bone sold for two hundred dollars. It was legal. But it did not seem right? Pat tweeted regarding indigenous bones, what about geronimo's skull at the Yale skull-and-bone society. Brian descendants of geronimo's sued the society about a decade ago. I believe saying that they basically robbed his grave in the early twentieth century. I'm not as familiar with that particular case, but there are a number of famous skeletons, you know, in various museums or medical school colleges that, you know, they're still question of like should these bones be repatriated or returned? Who was this person? Can we identify them? And what were their their wishes though? Another example, that's been, you know, the news relatively recently is the skeleton of someone who is famous for some time called the Irish giant Charles Byrne, who you know, he had a physiological condition that gave him a larger stature and famously. He kind of could hear the the scalpel being sharpened as he felt his life was ending and he made specific wishes to be buried at sea in a lead coffin. So his body wouldn't be stolen put on display, and that is exactly what happened that the Royal College of surgeons or what became the Royal College of surgeons in England obtained his remains until recently. On display. There's been some murmurings that he may eventually get his his final wish to final burial. But especially with skeletons remains that are centuries old or considered historic or have certain medical value. There's often pushback from the scientific or medical community saying, well, we can learn from from these things or now there's a historical gloss to the outside of this that makes the bone something more than just that one person's life, and there's this constant back and forth that we really have yet to resolve speaking of that history. We should definitely mention Richard the third the former king of England he was reburied in an official religious ceremony in twenty fifteen more than five hundred years after he died here is a bit of that eulogy from the ceremony. It was written by a Scottish poet named Carol. Ann Duffy and read by Benedict Cumberbatch who has played the famous king and is his distant descendant, I Bohm's scripted in light upon code soil. A human braille. My skull Scott by crown emptied of history, described my soul as incense votive, vanishing your own the same ground me, the calving of my name that was Benedict Cumberbatch reading a eulogy for king. Richard the third and a burial ceremony more than five hundred years after his death. Tell us the story about how his skeleton was discovered. And also how they verified that. It really was Richard the third. Yes. So one of the reasons I picked near Richard the third as an example of of what we can learn from bones about somebody's life is because you know, when you suspect somebody is king, you're gonna give them the Royal treatment in terms of anthropology, and what you're going to play that scouting some Richard. The third was supposed to be lost. No one knew where his body or his remains were and there is a group of basically or should the third enthusiasts. Call themselves. Ricardian who wanted to locate? His remains. So they worked with an archaeological group and the Acura logical group didn't expect to find Richard the third or much of anything at all, you know, as they said and some of their official reports this is not what archeologists do not Indiana Jones rear after the lost. Ark. Your after specific person. You know, you do your digs you take your data. And you see what you learn about different times and places and people so they dented a place called grey, friars. And you know, today, there's a parking lot over much of this excavation site or there was and as we started digging in they started, you know, finding parts of the building and fair. Okay. This is cool. We can learn about, you know, the the town at the time, and they came across this skeleton complete that seemed to be Ostia logically mail and had this bend in the back the signs of scoliosis. And it seemed pretty curvature of the spine. Right. That's right. Yes. And. It seemed almost right. This was a good candidate based upon the time and the location how everything lined up. This could be Richard the third us, particularly with that curvature of the spine. So Richard the third is often been portraying even by Benedict Cumberbatch, as you know, Hunchback and sorta stooped over and having some sort of malformation of the Spiner or of the backs of the fact that the skull and had a pathology or something unusual about it and seem to check all these boxes made a candidate. But with really verified, it was the genetic evidence able be pulled from those bones are bones preserved, some of our DNA starts to degrade at death. But it does retain some as a kind of time capsule. So between, you know, the details in terms of the chronology in terms of the anatomical details of of this person. And eventually the genetic evidence they're able to confirm that they really had found this long lost king with regards to that anatomical evidence. Let's get to another message. Here's what REBA in Chicago left in our inbox. Keeps drawing for medical students. I've been teaching from bones for thirty years what I wanted to say is because of the unusual nature of my own bones due to spina bifida, I've seen how small variations in the shape of one's bones. Magnify and the luminated the nature of what it means to be embodied bones for me are intensely beautiful and poetic, and I've Aliou every single bone. I've ever held my hands. Thanks very much for showing that with Brian. Our time is short, but how much variability is there. Among human skeletons, any particular kind of variation than most stands out to you. You know, the various is that most stand out to me are the cultural variation? So what we can do to our own bones and still have them function. So for example, head binding, so, you know, various cultures, you know, throughout the centuries, particularly doing this with the children, you know, when our skulls are relatively malleable, but either wrapping them up in boards or cord or something else to constrain the shape of the skull. So as our young skulls, grow they change shape, and they can have this along gated shape, and it doesn't affect intelligence or anything like that. It's just like a fashion statement, or it's like belong to this certain social group like for me, I'm covering a fair number of tattoos. If I lived, you know, hundreds of years ago, and the step of Asia, I might have had an elongated head because as the fashion of the time coarsening can do something similar it doesn't affect overall health, but it will change the shape of the skeletal change the neural spines the spines stick out from your vertebrae and the shape of your ribs. And even though it doesn't cause any illnesses or anything like that. I was once. It was not it's still pretty dramatic change. And I think that's pretty wonderful that you know, our culture can be recorded in our bones for perpetuity. Bob in Cincinnati emailed believe that today's Ash Wednesday commemoration beginning Christian lent would be similar to deal with us when we received the ashes on our foreheads. We are told remember you are dust and to dust you shall return that was one of the things Adam and eve were told when they were banished from the garden of Eden true enough, Bob Genesis chapter three before we go one last tweet de tweeted, what would your guests tell a little girl who wants to be a paleontologist, Brian. Start reading a more that you can read about you know, bones, and anatomy and prehistoric life. The better eventually when you can try and volunteer at a museum there museums. Volunteer programs all around the country that also run fossil digs and just getting that experience in film familiarity with bones, we live in awesome time where there's more access to scientific journals into books and to these opportunities than ever. So really you can start educating yourself at about bones of my point. That's the career that I did. I don't have a degree. But I started learning about this because of this great availability that there is online. Brian sweet tech, the author of skeleton keys, the secret life of bone his blog about fossils for scientific American called les laps. L A E L A P S, Brian thanks for talking to us as been wonderful. Thank you this show was produced by Avery Kleinman and edited by maranda full more, you can learn more about them and the rest of our team online at the one A dot org slash staff. This program comes to you from W AMU part of American University. In Washington distributed by NPR until we meet again, I'm Joshua Johnson. Thanks for listening. This is one A. Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from Comcast business having the nation's largest gig speed network was just the start. Now, they're providing gig fueled apps and solutions that exceed expectations and help businesses perform Comcast business beyond fast.
H.H. Holmes Pt. 1: Herman Webster Mudgett
"Due to the graphic nature of this killer's crimes listener discretion is advised this episode includes discussions of violence and murder that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen thirty year. Old H H Holmes. Listened to the clock tick as he prepared his operating table. It was past midnight now Christmas morning. Eighteen ninety one while others lay safe in bed. Dreaming of Sugar Plums. The doctor was at work. He pulled a long metal instrument from the tray beside him. The woman lying on the table Julia. Connor let out a gasp. But he quieted her with a shush he promised the procedure wouldn't hurt a bit and it was essential. She couldn't be allowed to have his child in reality. He had no idea how to perform such an operation but that never stopped homes before he was a cold calculating mad. If this contingency plan went awry he'd simply come up with another. It didn't take long for homes to Botch the procedure soon. His patient lay dead below him. As did the child inside her. The doctor shook his head. It was too bad. But she knew the risks with the he've he shoved the body off the table to carry it to the seller. He can grunted as he dragged the corpse. Don The secret staircase. He had constructed years before the loss of Julia didn't way too heavy on his mind. Homes was far more focused on the task at hand and the task ahead. The real challenge would be dealing with her six year old daughter. Hi I'm Greg Poulsen. This is serial killers a park ouster original every Monday. We dive into the minds and madness of serial killers today recovering the sadistic crimes of H H Holmes. The master of the infamous murder mansion. The man often cited as America's first serial killer. I'm here with my co host Vanessa. Richard saying hi everyone you can find episodes of serial killers and all other podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream. Serial killers for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type serial killers in the search bar at podcast grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know Howard doing reach out on facebook and Instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast network. And if you enjoyed today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review. Wherever you're listening. It really does help. No one knows exactly how many murders H H Holmes committed. He confessed at twenty seven but only nine were confirmed yet. He had the motive and resources to slaughter dozens if not hundreds this week. We'll explore homes childhood his turn toward a life of crime at his first two confirmed murders and the completion of his notorious Murder Castle. A building designed to hide homes murderous activities and make it easy to dispose of his. Victim's bodies H H Holmes was born. Herman Majett in Gilman to New Hampshire in eighteen sixty one his father levi much. It was a house painter while his mother stayed at home. The budgets were devout methodists and raised homes to be religious. A neighbor later described the family as upright God fearing citizens living in a quiet secluded section of the country as a boy homes was widely regarded as quiet well behaved and unremarkable. But he didn't stay out of trouble entirely. He stole small amounts of money from several of his neighbors refuse to come clean when he was caught instead. He always had a quick excuse at the ready. About how the theft was actually a simple misunderstanding is clean and quiet. Demeanour convinced many adults that he was telling the truth though. This act worked on most of the adults in his life. Some were unnerved by the boy. Many later reported that he never seemed to look people in Neon is this was actually because homes had a medical condition no nostra business. People with this condition are sometimes called cross eyed or wall allied. Those business is often not physically debilitative. It does prevent some individuals from making eye contact not being able to fulfil this. Social expectation can sometimes lead to social anxiety. The nestles going to take over on the psychology here and throughout the episode. Please note Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist. But she has done a lot of research for the show. Thanks Greg as Dr Ian Marsh an ophthalmologist points out people who avoid eye contact are often viewed by society. As untrustworthy or suspicious this puts individuals with SRN business at a significant disadvantage when it comes to forming relationships with others as a result those with SRN business have been shown to have higher levels of social anxiety however homes condition likely. Wasn't the only thing that caused anxiety when he was young. He wrote in his autobiography that as a child. He was bullied by gang of older boys. The boys tortured homes with stories of decaying bodies and noxious mixtures hidden in the local doctor's office. Then they took him to the office and dragged him through the doors inside. They had rigged an anatomical skeleton to scare him. According to homes the skeletons stood with its arms extended ready to grab him when he walked inside at the time. Homes panicked and screamed. He was haunted by the image of the skeletons. Wicked smile for years. But as much as the skeleton scared homes it also captivated him macab thoughts of death and disease remained on his mind even as he grew up and tried to pursue the trappings of a normal life but even then it seemed. Death followed homes wherever he went in seventy five. When Holmes was fourteen his grandfather passed away and left him. A small patch of land. Homes didn't seem to broken up by the loss and instead sought to take advantage of his late grandfather's property allegedly when he took a shine to a local girl. He bragged to her that he owned some land. He proposed they get married and live on the plot together. The girl accepted but their grand plans were foiled when the girls parents found out and sent her out of the state. Homes was heartbroken by the affair. He didn't move on until eighteen. Seventy seven. When he was sixteen that year he graduated high school and took some odd jobs mostly as a teacher with the new found freedom of his young adulthood. He began courting sixteen year old. Clara a lowering some reports claim Clara and homes had known each other since childhood while others state they met well homes worked on her family's farm either way around eighteen. Seventy seven Clara and homes began dating. Claro said of him. I always felt. He was pleasant in disposition. Tenderhearted much more so than people in general but that tender heart had its limits. Once at a church home saw another boy talking intimately with Clara. He cornered the boy and threatened him. Whatever home said must have been frightening as the boy reportedly went Pale and abruptly left the event alone after their conversation. The confrontation left homes Giddy. The next day he excitedly told his friends that he and Clara were engaged. A year later on July fourth eighteen. Seventy eight the two married in secret. They were afraid their parents wouldn't approve. They were right. Both Clara's an homes parents felt they were too young to be married and were incensed when they found out about the union months later homes. Mother told him she couldn't have done much worse. Clara's parents tried to make the best of things by helping their new son. In Law he began working at a grocery store. Owned by Clara's uncle. Homes kept the job for a while but it was far from ideal. His pay wasn't enough to allow him to live alone with Clara instead for over a year. She remained with her parents every Saturday. Homes walk nine miles to spend the weekend with his wife returning home on Monday morning a year and a half later in eighteen eighty. Clara gave birth to their first child who they named Robert. She cared for their infant son. While homes pursued a new passion medicine in eighteen eighty nineteen year old homes enrolled at the University of Vermont. Medical School Clara again stayed behind at her parents. House while homes moved to a boarding house near the school during this time homes asked his roommate. Fred ingels to keep the fact that he was married. A secret ingles only agreed after homes promised not to pursue any other women while at the Boardinghouse ingles was a gentleman and didn't want his roommate causing a scandal but homes apparently wasn't a man of his word he began flirting outrageously with landlady's daughter people around town. Even thought homes of the young woman would soon be engaged. Ingles was incensed. He made it known publicly that Holmes was already married on one occasion. They came to blows after ingles used homes moustache wax without asking him I. The fight was so violent. That ingles ended up with a black high however the fight may have been less about the wax and more about ingles entering homes room without permission. Sin Singles had already proven himself unwilling to keep home secrets. Homes was likely wary of granting him anymore confidence his landlady Mrs Brew later recalled but home set up a chemical lab at his room. Apparently homes held a special fascination with chemistry in particular and even hired a private tutor in the subject after being dissatisfied with the university's class he had a stock of test tubes miscellaneous chemicals and other oddities in his room. Misses Bru once found a bottle full of enormous roofing nails hidden in his closet but that was far from the worst thing. The old woman encountered she wants went to sweep up in home room and found the preserved cadaver of a baby stuffed under his bed. Mrs Brew was terrified. The cadaver was most likely a medical specimen homes loved dissection and apparently took some of his study material home to privately experiment. Homes Fellow Med. School students later remarked that he always seemed to have a morbid fascination with dead bodies he was only two week or to work on cadavers. During class it was true. That home enjoyed studying medicine but he ran out of money in Vermont and dropped out after one semester. He was forced to go back home and take a job as a teacher again. However homes didn't last long at this new job either he was rough on students who were mostly preteens and took pleasure in subjecting them to corporal punishment. At the end of the year students submitted universally negative evaluations of homes and the school terminated him afterward. He moved with Clara and Baby Robert to Ann Arbor Michigan in eighteen eighty two. They're clear worked as a dressmaker and twenty one year. Old homes resumed his medical studies at the University of Michigan. For the first time the little family was all under the same roof but things did not go. Smoothly homes reportedly felt that Clara and the baby were dragging him down in life. Despite the fact that Clara was the one helping to finance his schooling neighbors reported that the couple fought often. Clara was seen with black eyes on multiple occasions. Eventually the abuse became too much for her to bear. She left homes in early. Eighteen eighty four a few months before he graduated medical school and took Robert with her back to New Hampshire left to his own devices once again. Homes ambitions almost immediately turned sinister her up next. H H Holmes remakes his identity and begins his descent into the criminal underworld podcast listeners. We realized that there are a lot of park has shows to choose from each day and sometimes not enough time to sort through them. All in our new feed Park Cass Daley. We filtered through all of your favorite podcast series to highlight the most timely and relevant episode premiering. Each day every Monday through Friday. Discover a new and captivating episode curated specifically for you. That's one new episode from our slate of content hand picked with you in mind. Time is precious. And we've got you covered. Follow Parkas daily free on spotify or every. Get Your podcasts. You can check out. Moorpark has shows and a full library of episodes in spotify by searching for podcast in the spotify search bar or by going to spotify dot com slash. Podcast now back to the story. In eighteen eighty four twenty-three-year-old h h Holmes graduated from Medical School in Ann Arbor Michigan. His wife Clara had recently left him after he physically abused her. She took their son Robert Back to her hometown. New Hampshire Clara's departure didn't seem to bother homes instead. He bragged about the big things planned to do now that his wife was gone. Homes told several of his classmates that he was going to travel to Africa to do some medical charity work. After graduating. He even officially announced the trip in a local newspaper in reality. It seems the stunt was kind of prank. Homes never went to Africa and instead returned to New Hampshire following his graduation after a minor smallpox outbreak in the area homes went around town offering vaccines for twenty five cents each about the equivalent of six dollars and fifty cents today. After initially struggling to sell the medicine he hatched a plan to con his potential customers. He started posing as an official from the board of Health and claim the vaccines still priced. At twenty five cents were mandated by the government. The townspeople now felt like they were forced to pay. The scam netted homes the seed money. He needed to rent a small office which he turned into a laboratory. His goal was to create a patent medicine and over the counter treatment commonly sold in pharmacies as a kind of cure all for a wide variety of symptoms at the time. Patent medicines were seldom subject to any kind of legitimate medical trials. It was the perfect opportunity for scam. Despite weeks of experimentation homes never ended up creating a suitable formula and abandoned the project instead. He turned his attention toward treating the locals though. It wasn't very profitable with a mass of unpaid bills and no money to pay them off. Homes frequently resorted to lies to get debtors off his back. The landlord who homes rented his office from later said I never saw man who was a more accomplished liar than homes. He could tell as beautiful ally as you ever heard and you would have hard work to bring yourself to doubt him by the fall of eighteen. Eighty five twenty four year. Old Homes had accumulated a staggering amount of debt. Apparently he couldn't get out from under it so he resolved to run away instead he abruptly left New York one autumn meeting and moved to Pennsylvania. Little information from this period and homes life has survived but we do know that once he arrived in Pennsylvania. He took a job at a psychiatric hospital. He hated the job but badly needed money. It didn't take long for homes to resort to scamming though he was making ends meet with his hospital job. It seems he couldn't help himself. As a paper published by the Australian Institute of Criminology explained. There's no single psychological. Trait that identifies potential fraudster psychologist as Rostov Lind wrote. Sometimes an individual's motivation for crime may have originally been relative deprivation greed and so forth however as they found themselves successful at this crime. They began to gain some secondary delight in the knowledge that they're showing their superiority to others. It seems homes came up with schemes. Not just out of necessity but out of a desire to manipulate others. It thrilled him to take money from others ever since childhood. He'd love to see what he could get away with and he always seized an opportunity to make a quick buck and soon homes and a colleague from college came up with what they thought was the perfect crime insurance fraud. The pair lead another man in on the gamut a friend of homes who had a wife and child I that friend would take out a substantial life insurance policy the entire family he would then sent his wife and child out of town and write a false suicide note proclaiming that he had killed them both before taking his own life. The note would be delivered to the insurance company while the friends skipped town along with his family. When an inspector from the company came to visit the scene he would find three dead bodies to verify the story in reality. The bodies would all be medical. Cadavers homes would go to the scene posing as a relative and would ultimately receive the insurance money which would be split among them all each of the three men participating in the scheme homes. The colleague and his friend with a wife and child were responsible for finding one of the three cadavers needed supposedly homes procured the corpse he needed by buying it from a local medical school but soon afterward he read a on insurance fraud and realized that insurance companies had sophisticated methods for detecting fraud and investigating bodies. He realized that if he didn't find bodies which matched the description of his friends. Family exactly the companies would refuse to pay out in May of eighty six homes called off the plaid but he never forgot it for years he brainstormed ways to secure a steady stream of corpses. That could full insurance inspector. After the failed insurance scheme he decided to move again in May of eighteen eighty six. He went to Chicago but he wasn't alone. H H Holmes was planning on remarrying much about home second wife. Twenty-four-year-old MIRTA BELKNAP is a mystery before getting engaged to homes. Mirta was a clerk in a music store that there's little information about her appearance personality or temperament it's also unknown when exactly they met though it was probably not long before the couple decided to move together from New York to Chicago. Evidence suggests she and Holmes got married soon after they moved but because homes was technically still married to Clara at the time the ceremony was unofficial. However it seems that Mirta may not have known that the wedding was off the books or that Holmes had a first wife in fact she most likely never even new homes real name by now. He dropped his birth name of budget. Probably in an attempt to clear himself of old debts and settled on the MONIKER H H Holmes the last time he ever used the name mudge. It in an official capacity was to file for divorce from Clara after finding a somewhat unscrupulous lawyer in Chicago homes tried to petition the divorce on grounds of infidelity. In what we're almost certainly made up accusations homes claimed Clara had cheated on him while they were together in Michigan. He also said he'd been caring for their son. Robert over the past several years in an attempt to avoid paying alimony for his child but once again home schemes were ill considered and didn't stand up to the slightest investigation for obvious. Reasons homes could find. No one to corroborate Clara's supposed infidelity and divorce proceedings fell apart homes remained legally married to Clara. She probably never even knew he had filed for divorce so home simply changed his name and pressed on with his new life with Mirta only a couple of months after moving to Chicago in July eighteen. Eighty six he had formulated a new scam once again that month homes apparently talked his way into managing a local drugstore. He had long wanted a shop of his own and secretly intended to buy the pharmacy from the young couple. Who owned it? The whole tends to prepare for his eventual buyout. He I plan to reduce the stores. Value Homes hoped by damaging business at the store temporarily. He could buy at a bargain and ensure a good profit. Bats summer he started swiping drugs and equipment from the Pharmacy Day by day. He stole more and more remarkably. The plan succeeded and soon he was able to buy the pharmacy for a fraction of what it had been worth. There's an implication that homes made the couple disappear or even murdered them in order to take over the store however official records confirm the Holton were still living in the same Chicago neighborhood. Long after Holmes was arrested years later even so they did suffer at the hands of homes even after driving the price of the pharmacy through the floor. Home still refused to pay what he owed. The whole. Tin's had to threaten homes with a lawsuit before getting their money. This is only the beginning of homes petty crime spree in Chicago in early eighteen eighty seven. He added more fraud to his resume. After purchasing a plot of land right across from the drugstore on sixty third street in Englewood initially his wife. Miras name was on the deed but soon it was altered to say it belonged to Mira's mother Lucy belknap homes wanted his name on his few official documents as possible that way when he inevitably faced consequences for his actions he could point the finger elsewhere with the money. He got from working at the drugstore and his numerous petty scams home set about developing the land on sixty third street in early eighteen. Eighty seven he. I had architects draw plans for a two story building. The first floor would house retail establishments including his drugstore which he planned to move into the new building. Once it was complete the second floor was to be filled with apartments outwardly. Homes declared he intended on becoming a landlord and real estate mogul but even the first blueprints included some unusual features accessible from the rear of the new drug store. Homes placed a small secret room between the first and second floors. He also installed a hidden staircase oddly. The entrance to the staircase was found behind a trap door in the bathroom on the second floor years later a third floor was added and homes. Darkest motivations revealed themselves eventually. The building was known as the Murder Castle. One of the most notorious buildings in the history of Chicago up next H H Holmes makes the castle his base of operations and commits his first murder. Now back to the story by the end of eighteen eighty seven twenty seven year old Dr h h Holmes had started construction on a large retail and apartment. Building he planned to run a pharmacy on the first floor and rent out apartments on the second. He raised the money for the venture through a variety of cons and shameless fraud. A practice. He continued while the complex was under construction. For example he once bought an enormous safe on credit and had it installed in the new drugstore after moving the safe to the new building site he proceeded with construction essentially building a room around the safe when Holmes refused to pay what he owed on the vault. The company came to repossess it. Homes was only too happy to oblige. He said the company was free to take the safe but he promised to sue if they damage the building while removing it after appraising the situation the SAFE company founded. It couldn't possibly get the vault out without knocking down some walls. They were forced to leave it where it stood. Similar situations occurred with the architects and contractors. Holmes flat out refused to pay his bills at least sixty lawsuits were filed against him over eight years in Chicago. Each time he was sued. He claimed his mother-in-law Lucy was the one liable for the debts as he had put her name on the deed to the land instead of his own even when the suits were ruled in favor of the contractors. There wasn't much creditors could do. Homes didn't legally own any property and often sold off things he borrowed or rented so there wasn't anything left to repossess either. Thanks to his many connivances twenty-seven-year-old homes finish the building toward the end of eighteen eighty. Seven by that time. He had relocated his drugstore from across the street to the first floor of his new complex homes. Latest batch of employees soon found that their boss had some quirks his housekeeper claimed he would regularly tell her. He was going out of town only to show up skulking around the building at night each time he had some excuses to why his trip had fallen through but they never seemed. Well thought out or particularly believable. The drugstore employees were also aware of the hidden staircase and compartment between the first and second floor. Oddly none of them seem particularly unnerved by the building. Strange design some employees took breaks or even naps in the small secret compartment in their minds. There were far more suspicious. Things going on homes reportedly once asked an employee to get inside the large safe in the store. He locked the safe behind them and then asked them to scream after verifying. The vault was almost soundproof. Homes opened the door again. Naturally he never revealed to the employees why he had asked them to scream from inside the safe he could have been planning to use the safe as part of a con or it could have been a component of something more sinister homes ultimate goals. Were always hard to pin down. The Custodian at the store once said home zone collection of false mustaches and disguises sometimes seemingly for no reason homes would emerge from his office dressed as a stereotypical southern gentleman complete with a fake beard and bushy eyebrows. Of course hijinks like these were nothing. Compared to most of his predatory cons he never seemed to be content with honest work and instead constantly involved himself in boulder and more ridiculous cons as long as he felt he could get away with it. Holmes was willing to steal abuse and even murder to get what he wanted for the next couple of years homes continue to borrow and steal as much as he could in the process. He put his mother in Law Lucy BELKNAP and his second wife Mirta through an incredible amount of stress has lawsuit after lawsuit implicated them as well as homes throughout at all however Mir to stuck by her husband in eighteen eighty nine when Holmes was twenty nine years old and she was twenty eight. She gave birth to their first child a daughter. They named Lucy after MIRTA mother. Not Long. After Lucy was born homes began cheating on Mirta with one of his employees Julia. Connor was the wife of jeweler. Homes had hired for his drugstore. While Ned Connor saw the jewelry department his wife worked as a cashier. They lived on the second floor of homes complex along with their young daughter. Pearl home saw an opportunity to make a move on Julia. Soon after she and her husband moved in homes could hear the connors fighting at night through the thin walls of the building away from the prying eyes of her husband. Homes became very attentive to Julia. Make carried on an affair for over a year and in early. Eighteen ninety net and Julia separated at that point. Ned quit his job at the store and started living elsewhere in the city. Almost as soon as ned moved on home sought him out and suddenly bragged that he was sleeping with Julia. As Ned later put it. He told me something. No Man on earth could have known if he had not been intimate with her. Apparently tormenting ned had been a part of the fun all along. The desire to boast about his infidelity may have been the same thing that drove homes to run cons. He loved humiliating others. According to Dr Neil Burton humiliation is one of the most affecting feelings we experience. Some may even prefer death to severe public. Humiliation Burton. Wrote humiliation involves a basement of honor and dignity and with that loss of status and standing. When we're humiliated. We may also internalize the trauma leading to fear and anxiety flashbacks nightmares sleeplessness suspicion and paranoia social isolation apathy depression and suicidal idealization. Perhaps this seed was planted in home when he was humiliated as a boy. Tormented by the Skeleton Prank in response he decided to inflict this anguish on others. Even those closest to him. His favourite scams are ones where he could watch the look on his victims faces as they realized they'd been hoodwinked. He wanted them to know what they'd been beaten and out. There was nothing they could do about it. His actions fit with the kind of behavior that political science professor Edward waistband described as excessive cruelty. He wrote that for some the appeal of violating moral. Taboos is found in the obscenity of the crimes. He noted that for these people. It's not enough simply to cross the line. The further they transgress and the more unnecessary brutality. The more enjoyment they get from their evil acts ending. Net and Julia's marriage wasn't enough for homes. He also used. Julia has an unwitting party to several of scams he collected almost two thousand dollars from her at one point in exchange for making her a part owner of the drugstore. The position granted her. No rights or profits homes gladly. Took her money anyway. He also signed her name to a variety of small companies. He falsely created as well mostly to misdirect any legal consequences of his actions onto someone else in due course. Julia was named in several lawsuits directed. At fake businesses. Homes was involved in just like with Mirta and her mother home saw his relationship with Julia as just another way to take advantage of her. Even so Julia and homes continued their affair until the end of Eighteen. Ninety one and thirty year old homes remained as devious as ever. He successfully kept their liaison secret from his wife even as he got Julia into legal trouble. But everything homes had put Julia through so far was nothing compared to what was coming just before Christmas of eighteen ninety one. Julia got an invitation in the mail. Her sister was getting married back in Davenport. Iowa thrilled by the news. She hurried to prepare for a trip to attend the wedding on Christmas Eve. She and her daughter Pearl now. Six spent the evening with the crows. Another family who boarded at homes building. John Crowe later recalled that Julia talked excitedly about her sister's wedding. She was looking forward to the trip but told John. She intended to pack light for the journey. She said she would only be gone for a week or two and wasn't planning to leave until after Christmas as Mrs Crow later said Julia talked of what she would do Christmas Day. Sing nothing to cause us to think. She intended on going away that night. She even left the dinner dishes on the table and yet after she left the crows apartment. No one ever saw Julia or Pearl again. What exactly happened to them? Is Unknown in later. Years home sometimes claimed he'd never killed Julia at all while other times. He said she'd died accidentally homes lawyer. Dt done comb told a newspaper that Holmes had privately confessed to murdering Julia but it was never clear about how or why home said Don it. The most likely theory is based on the explanation homes gave in later years that he got Julia pregnant with his child and convinced her to have an abortion then. The procedure went awry. Though homes was technically doctor he didn't have much practical experience with surgical procedures at the time. Abortion was illegal and even when performed by experienced physicians it often resulted in the death of the mother as to what happened to six year. Old Pearl. There's no way to tell if her mother did die during the operation. It seems like homes could have given Pearl to her father Ned without much trouble but when he claimed Julia had accidentally died during surgery he had no explanation for the little girl's disappearance. But we know he was responsible for her death her body late in the cellar for years until the bones of a young child were found after homes capture on Christmas Day. The Crow family who had spent Christmas Eve with Julia and Pearl went out to visit friends when they came home that night. They found Julia and Pearls apartment had been boarded up. They found the whole thing strange but assumed at first. Julia had simply left for Davenport. Early homes acted as Julian Pearl were alive and even pretended to look for them. He also kept in contact with Ned. Likely motivated by some twisted sense of amusement. He got from stringing the man along but though homes was committed to our leaf feigning concern for Julia and Pearls Disappearances. He wasn't going to leave money sitting on the table and soon he rented their abandoned apartment to a new family as the new renter. A Mrs Toil later reported when Holmes took us in to look at it it presented. A remarkable appearance in the dining room table was standing untouched. After a meal on the floor and chairs was the clothing of Mrs Connor and her child. A doll laying on the floor and homes quickly shoved it under the bed with his foot homes even tried to sell Mrs Doyle. The leftover closed still sitting in Julius Dresser when she politely refused he had them sent somewhere else. Despite some suspicions from fellow tenants about the strangeness of Julian Pearl's Disappearance. No-one had a concrete reason to suspect homes. After a few months he breathed a sigh of relief. Assumed Julia had run away to cut him off from his daughter and everyone else assumed something had happened to them on their trip to Davenport just like he always did. It seemed homes had gotten away clean and unfortunately Julia and Pearl were only the first of many victims to come as homes later wrote. Yes I was born with the devil and me. I could not help the fact that I was a murderer. No more than poet can help the inspiration to song nor the ambition of an intellectual man to be great. The Devil truly was inside homes and it was just beginning to emerge. Thanks again for tuning into serial killers. We'll be back Monday with part two exploring homes horrific murder spree and the completion of his sadistic murder castle for more information on h h Holmes amongst many sources were used. We found the book. H H Holmes. The true history of the White City. Devil by Adam Seltzer extremely helpful to our research. You can find more episodes of serial killers and all other par- cast originals free on spotify. Not only spotify already have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy. All of your favorite podcast originals. Like serial killers for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream serial killers on spotify. Just open the APP and tight serial killers and the search bar. Several of you have asked how to help the show. And if you enjoy the show the best way to help us to leave a five star review and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram. At Park asked and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you next time. Have a killer week. Serial was created by Max Cotler and is a podcast studios original executive producers include Max and Ron Cutler sound designed by Juan Boorda with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Freddie Beckley. This episode of serial killers was written by Tara Wells with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon and stars Greg Poulsen and Vanessa Richardson.
BTK II: Episode 101
"Thank you for listening to this podcast. One production now available on Apple podcasts podcast one spotify and anywhere else you get your podcasts. It is getting hot outside and I. Don't know about you, but the last thing that I wanNA do when it's hot out is eat hot food, and that's why one of our sponsors daily harvest has been saving my life so right now daily harvest is helping me beat the heat with the refreshing smoothies and delicious scoops their new plant based ice cream scoops are free of additives, preservatives and fillers, because they're made with whole nourishing organic ingredients like black, sesame coconut, cream and dragon fruit, and they afford delicious flavors, daily harvest such a lifesaver. They help you stock your home with clean delicious food that's built on real fruits and. And vegetables, their farm frozen to lock in peak new transcend taste with dealing harvest. There's tons of options for anytime of the day from smoothies Tarver Bulls to flat breads and more, and the best part is ready to enjoy in minutes. Eating Clean Food with daily harvest is easy and effortless, whether you're having a night at home or need a quick by on the go, so keep it simple this summer, daily harvest, daily harvest, dot, com and enter Promo Code I. Get Twenty Five dollars off your first box. That's Promo Code I for twenty five dollars off your first box at Dealey Harvest Dot Com daily harvest dot com. Plus degree realistically close to. Degree I. The first degree. Movies. By Dad was. About on H., he said when he was in the air force over in Asia trying things, but nothing. As far as we know, there's no murderers. He was just ramping up so by the time he was in his late twenties. He was breaking and entering, and he was stocking a lot. He actually dashed reverse stock over murder. There was something there that was enough for a while. While the first degree, the true crime podcast you might end up on. My name is Jack Fan. I can I'm sitting far away from Alexis, linkletter and Billie Johnson, so this week's episode is part. Two of a three parts of you haven't listened to part one bt. K., you need to stop listing. and Go back to last week's episode, but today we're taking you through part. Two of what will end up being are three parter on bt K. and don't worry guys. Dennis writers daughter carry with us today as our first degree. But before we get started on that billy, what day is it today? It's national hotdog day. And it's also national Hammock Day. Yeah you needed to really bring it back from China like a hot dog and a HAMMOCK I don't eat hot dogs. Hot Dogs are not for me. Me Too I don't like chopped up. Meet re purposed as. Sort of named me so I don't like. I like the idea of hot dog, but I don't like actually dog. I like a Turkey dog I. Like the dressings on Hot Doug I. I like the idea of hot hotdog when you're at a baseball game like everything else surrounding the hot dog is amazing, but the hotdog. Itself Sick I can understand that I wish it was a cheeseburger because there's nothing better than a cheeseburger. There is nothing better than cheeseburger. And, that's enough of that so. Let's turn down the lights? And turn up your anxiety. Because this could be you. Last week we took you through, Btk as I five murderers, which included four members of the Otero family in the murder of Catherine. Break we left you with the reveal of bt case first contact with the media and police. After he left a letter in a book at the Wichita Public Library at the time, the police had no idea that this letter from the man who had come to be known as Beechy K. would be the first string of fiscal correspondences. That beach decay would send us. He evaded them for decades. After this letter K went underground for three years, not emerging again until nineteen seventy seven. But once he was back. He returned with a vengeance. We're going back to March seventeenth of Nineteen, seventy seven. It's twenty twenty now, so that's just over forty three years ago and it was actually saint. Patrick's Day of seventy seven, and the US president at the time was Jimmy Carter. People are listening to love theme from the Barbra streisand version of stars born and the Pink Panther Strikes Back Airport Seventy, seven and slapshot or in theaters last week. We told you about Wichita. But today we're talking park city. Park City is technically fourteen miles north west of Wichita, but if you ask someone from Park, city where they're from, many would just say I'm for Wichita. Fun Fact About Park City in two thousand seven. The city bought the home of Denison, Paula. Rader. Raise their children in, and they lived in for more than twenty five years they paid fifty six thousand dollars for the home and then July of two thousand twelve. They tore it down and build a park where it once stood. It was on the morning of March. Seventeenth nineteen seventy seven. That's surely vein and her children were having regular run of the mill died. Shirley was thirty six years old. Her kids were eight year old Stephen six-year-old junior, and her youngest was four year old Stephanie. Veins right down the street from their local grocery store so even though her oldest stephen was only eight years old, it wasn't a big deal for him to run down the street to grab something for his mom from the store, so on the state surely needed Stephanie. Grab some soup from her, so Stephen was out the door as surely call the grocery store owner to let him know that her little boy was coming. Stephen headed to the store and came back with a soup without difficulty nothing out of the ordinary. Day But all that would change with a knock at the door. One of the children answered a man with a gun to pushed his way inside and shut the door behind. Then hours past. One PM, Sharon and James Burnett were neighbors of the veins. Her knocks Authur door. They seemed frantic. It was surely to tear stricken boys in. They were begging for help. The police were called. When officer Raymond Fletcher arrived he and James Burnett. The neighbor ran to the vein home to see what was going on, and once please entered the home. They found Shirley's four year old daughter. Stephanie crying on the floor. It was extremely dark inside the house. All the curtains were closed inside the master bedroom. They found Shirley vein, and she was lying on the bed. She was nude. She had a plastic bag over her head and a pink nightgown over the bag. Her feet were towards the head of the bed and the bed itself was just shoved up against the bedroom door, and the way in which Shirley's body was left was chilling and intricate. A piece of white cord and nylon pantyhose band her hands behind her back, a large stretch of cord, rambling ver- body wrapped around her neck, four or five times, and ran down her back to bind her wrists, the Corden then ran down her legs inbound her ankles. The end of the cord was tied around the bedpost at the head of the bed. And it's interesting the way that BC Kate in this case chose to tie Shirley. This is kind of. Intricate, as far as. Bondage goes it kind of shows the evolution. Of the influence of bondage over his crimes. As police were taking in the horrific details of this scene. Shirley traumatized children were telling them as best they could about what they'd witnessed and experienced. and. Here's what the children shared with the police. After this unexpected, knock the vein front door. A man with a gun forced his way inside. Steven, told police that he recognized this man. He had just seen them at the grocery store when he went to pick up the super his mom. In fact, this man actually stopped him, and showed him a picture which depicted two people, and then he asked Stephen if he recognized either of them. The boy, she said no paid for the soup and walk back. But looking back, though it seems like this conversation that the killer struck up at the boy was intentional, and maybe even part of the killers fantasy. Once, the man was inside the home with the family at gunpoint. He tied the children up. This man also had a suitcase with him in the other hand. He forced the children into the bathroom, and then he barricaded the door shut with the bed in the master bedroom. Shirley begged the man not to hurt any of them, and he assured her that he wouldn't. News outlets reported that one of Shirley. SAN's watched. What happened to her through the Keyhole in the door? Chilies autopsy reveals to bruised lines across her throat from there. There were also small round bruises at the base. Ver- throat? They were little dark circles that were consistent with indentations that fingers would make. Trillion cause of death was determined to be as fixation something interesting that we need to point out is that btk opted not to kill the children in the case of Shirley. and. We know that he had previously done the opposite. Empathy has been a subject that we've woven and will continue to weave through this B C K three part series, so there's this question that's being presented here. By now busy Kayla had at least one child Dennis readers. Wife had given birth to his son. Our first degrees brother in nineteen, seventy five after that he never kill the child again. Empathy may not have been the reason for why he did or did not Kelly children, he could have been interrupted. Maybe he ran out of time. We'll never know the truth, but it's certainly something worth considering. Right and now we're going to four December ninth of one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, seven, which was about nine months after Shirley's murder, and while normally tell you the top song and movies, none of that matters, because the most significant thing that occurred on this day was the bizarre call. They came into the Wichita police. Department Three. May Be difficult to understand what the caller said and that recording so if you couldn't make all of it out, here's what they said quote. Yes, you will find a homicide at eight forty, three south, pershing, Nancy Fox unquote and this call came in at around eighteen. Am from a payphone outside of a grocery store in Wichita. The mill collar the operator to transfer him to the emergency number of the Wichita Police Department so that's what she did. And the police dispatcher attempted to get more information out of him, but he just eventually stopped responding and left the pay phone receiver off the hook. And officer named John D. Piatra was dispatched to the scene on south pershing. He pulled up to the salmon. Pink Duplex at eight twenty two am. When he approached, the home knocked on the door and waited for a response. There was none. He tried the KNOB, but it was locked. He walked around the perimeter of the House and move toward the back of the home. As he scanned the yard. He immediately noticed a cut phone line, Dangling, blowing in the wind from above. and. Once he got to the back of the House officer EP trump. He could see into one of the bedroom windows. And it was open and had no screen. So. He yelled inside and called Nancy's name. and. He got no response. He then reached his hand inside the window and push the drapes open. There he saw the body of a woman lying face down on the master bed. The woman would later be identified as twenty five year old Nancy Fox. Nancy's ankles were tied with a yellow shred of fabric, and her hands were tied behind her back with red pantyhose and once officer DP treat realized the severity of the situation he radioed for backup additional officers arrived in aided and kicking the front door of the home down, they rushed in and once inside. They observed that it was extremely clean. In fact, one officer remarked that it was cleanest house he'd ever seen I. Wish I was more like sat. In the living room, they noted that there was a woman's white parka lying on the couch. Remember it's December it's Kansas. There was allow share with a side table next to it. On the side table, there was a half smoke cigarette in an ashtray. Right on top. On the kitchen table, the contents of Nancy's canvas purse had been dumped on top of it. And there was a telephone mounted on the wall, and the receiver had been yanked from the base of the phone and it was lying on the floor. When police entered the BEDROOM NANCY was laying face down on the master bed, there was a pink sweater, covering her face and torso, and her purple undergarments were pulled down her feet bound by yellow fabric. And there is a pair of pantyhose wrapped twice around her neck. There is also a pair of coupled pantyhose lying on the floor. On top of the dresser, jewelry boxes have been rifled through a window in the master bedroom had been shattered glass was lying on the floor, the screen from that same window had been cut out of the frame and had blown against the outside fence that lined the perimeter of the home, and when the police studied the window framework closely, they saw fresh pry marks on the window lock, and the screws to the lock were torn out and tilted back. Nancy's lingerie drawers had been pulled out and rifled through. And one of the lingerie drawers was lying next to Nancy's body on the bed. A blue nightgown was also lying next to her head. And once the evidence was processed. It was revealed that there were present on the night that Nancy was raring when she was killed. Nancy Fox's autopsy revealed like all the others she too had been killed by strangulation. Following the murder of Nancy Fox Wichita was on edge. There was a serial killer on the loose one that called himself bt K. and he was steadfastly killing victims one onto the next, and there's no doubt that even in detectives were scared of this perpetrator, but the cops at this point had at least one more thing on their side, one more piece of evidence that could potentially eight and identifying this serial killer. They had a recording of his voice from when he called the police to draw them to the scene of Nancy Fox's homicide. Then in the following year nineteen, seventy, eight, there was another a massive shift in the life of Dennis rader his daughter. Kerry, our first degree was born. And at this point Dennis. Rader was juggling caring for a newborn at this point, toddler son, and he'd been working at eight t for about a year. Another thing he was doing, he was fooling everyone in his life about who truly was while Dennis. RADER is pretending to be father of the year working attending Church excetera. He still managed to find the time to engage and Dobelin some of his favorite hobbies. Right because on February tenth of Nineteen, seventy-eight local, news station CAKE TV received a letter from bt K which claimed responsibility for the deaths of Shirley Vein and Nancy Fox. In the letter, he also claimed to take the life of another victim, what she provided no name, but in hindsight we can deduce that he was likely talking about Kathryn Bright. Who would you about in part one? But nineteen seventy eight, the police hadn't connected CATHERINE'S CASE TO BE T. K The letter he sent made references to the Oh Tarot quadruple slings and provided details about that crime scene that only the killer could no. And after receiving the letter, the Wichita Police chief held a press conference and announced that a serial killer was at large and was threatening to strike again. Shortly after a cake TV received the letter, a second one was sent to the Wichita. Eagle Beacon newspaper. The letter contained a poem named surely locks, which was patterned after a nursery rhyme called curly locks. The poem did not provide specific details about Shirley's crime. But did indicate the delight. Her killer took from Shirley suffering. The Poem Author described how Shirley knew she was going to die. Quote. Thou shalt not scream, nor yet feel the line, but lay on cushion, and think of me and death, and how it's going to be, it gives me. CHILLS! Man! Yeah The writer expressed frustration over the lack of media. Attention directed towards him. Quote! How many do I have to kill before I? Get a name in the paper or some national attention. Law Enforcement is also mocked by the writer. To the cops think all those deaths are not related Golly Gee, yes, the MO is different each, but look a pattern is developing. I find the newspaper not writing about the poem on Vein Una music. A little paragraph would have been enough. Oh No, it is not the media fall. The police chief keeps things quiet and doesn't let the public know. There was a psycho running around loose, strangling mostly women. There are seven in the ground. Who will be next end quote? The letter continued. Do the cops think that all the victims are tied up? Most have been women phone cut brings some bondage master, sadistic tendencies, no struggle outside the death spot, no witness except the veins, kids. They were very lucky. A phone call saved them. I was going to tape the boys in put plastic bags over their heads, like I did Joseph in surely, and then hang the girl got oh. God what a beautiful sexual relief that would be! The writer explain in detail what he had done to Josephine. Otero, in which we will not repeat here. He continued. You don't understand these things because you're not under the influence factor x the same thing that made son of Sam Jack. The ripper Harvey Gladman Boston Strangler Dr h, h Holmes the Pantyhose Strangler of Florida. The Hillside Strangler Ted of the West Coast and many more infamous characters kill which seems senseless, but we cannot help it. There is no help no cure except death or being caught. Caught and put away. It is a terrible nightmare, but you see. I don't lose any sleep over it. And after a few more paragraphs of these non sensical ramblings, he went on to make some name suggestions for himself, and we obviously know that Dennis rader ultimately named himself de que, but according to him, it could have very well been any one of these other very very clever names. The Wichita Strangler, the Poetic Strangler, the bondage, strangler, or psycho, the Wichita Hangman, the Wichita executioner, the asphyxiated, or or and this one always gets me the Gherat Phantom. Okay I have a little side note story. Jack and I have been talking about this for a while. We listened. To The podcast on the left episode about bt, K. Shout out to them we we like that council what? Invade balance this art of like jokes and knock jokes. About a serious subject, really well in May DO A. One of them imitates slick with the killer would sound like in like this caricature world, and one of them does bt K. like deciding his name like what his name should be, and it's like the garage fans probably Henry. I'm sure I don't know their names. Sorry, sorry, I don't know I just listened while I'm running and crying at the cemetery, but. What they were saying about. These names is just it's so. He's so desperate. He's so pathetic. That he's a Desperado, its. I'm the Poetic Strangler Poems Suck. Oh my God. Writer by by the way I know that we we tried to read some of them, but like his grammar and his spelling so fucking bad. The you need to go and Google has poems because they're so terrible like there. Waiting is so bad. Rainfall apparently win. BC case started to get widely publicized and they publicizing these correspondences. His. Wife Paul Apparent and said like you fucking spell as bad as bt. K., because apparently, this is not unintentional. They didn't know how spell check this is. How We? 'cause like I thought he was doing this on purpose to. Throw off. No and that's listen. That's how Ted. Kaczynski was caught not necessarily with misspellings, but with with the cadence of his language in the way that he that he talked about things, and his brother said you know that sounds like my brother, and you get these very similar thing. This guy's just wanted to be heard Zodiac when you read Zodiac's letters when he's upset. Because nobody's wearing buttons, buttons were a big. Big thing in the late sixties like people want all the time. He was so upset that people weren't wearing buttons with his logo on them, and you can smell the desperation off of that, but I thought that one of the things that was interesting in this, we talked about why he didn't kill any of the vein children. He gives a possible explanation here by saying that there was a phone call. But interrupted him. Yes, he's also a compulsive liar. I do want to go back to this nickname thing I think that there is a special place in Hell for people that try to give themselves their own nickname, and I mean this in the most like innocuous way possible in innocent way possible. If somebody's like yeah, like the bullet ray like everybody, whatever and it's like dude. No, you're a nickname is literally cannot give yourself a nickname so number wind at the most innocent way possible like dude. No, but then also it's like like you're saying. The desperation is so palpable and insane, and it's like he's trying. He's number one comparing himself to all of these. Infamous serial killers that have. had. These names created for them from the terrified public, and he's just like Oh my God like I'm not getting my name yet like I gotta get my name, and so he's just giving people examples of what to call him, and it's just so I think my biggest takeaway from bt K., as like not only is he a sadistic disgusting serial killer, but he's also like a douchebag. Loser okay, so regardless of our thoughts of bt K.. Fear of K. was gripping. The suburbs of Wichita and everyone was terrified that they might be next because remember. This killer didn't discriminate between victims based on age or sex or literally anything else at all, so next target could be anyone so everyone lived in fear, and it was about to get worse for a woman named Anna Williams. Right? That's because on the evening of April Twenty Eighth Nineteen seventy eight. Sixty three year old Anna Williams returning home. Tonight night of square dancing with France. When she arrived home, she let herself in walked inside. And as soon as she did, she noticed at the corner of I. That. The door to her spare bedroom was a jar and this was odd. Because Anna always kept that door shut. She slowly walked into her bedroom and noticed that one of the drawers to her vanity was open. And then on the floor, there was a trail of her clothes that had not been there when she left. There was also an empty jewelry box that was overturned on the dresser. So. It was slowly dawning on Anna. That someone had burglarized her home. And had gone through her most intimate belongings. So, she's horrified. She runs the phone in the kitchen to call police. She picks up the phone, but the line is. And had apparently been cut. She ran out of the house to a neighbor's. The police arrived did a walk through of Anna's home with her. The discovered that one of the basement windows of her home had been busted out. And in the master bedroom, the bed had been pulled away from the wall. Clothes were cut like type bt K. like to use to bind his victims rests. Found next to her bed, and by now all of these characteristics these had finally become known as earmarks of BBC K. and finally the police could recognize them when they entered a crime scene so responding officers in this situation new to call the designated bt. Kate investigators immediately. Anna's faith that day was determined by the fact that she arrived home later than busy K. expected her to because on this day for whatever. Whatever reason Dennis rader had a budget for his time when Anna didn't walk into the house when bt K. expected her to, he got all out of whack, maybe at a thing with one of his kids, maybe at a church function an obligation with his wife and ADT security emergency. Who knows the point is? Is that Dennis? Rader had summer to be the aborted his plan after waiting for longer than expected to. An Anna had just barely evaded being murdered by G. K so. It's understandable that she never wanted to sleep in this house again. Because right prior to this burglary, her husband had just died. She was newly widowed, so there was no way she was ever going in there ever again because she knew that these case had been in her home. I mean I'd burn the place down personally. No, yeah, rightfully so and another interesting thing about this break in Anna's is that when police looked at this crime, they wondered whether or not the bt K. had actually intended to target Anna or not. Her twenty four year old granddaughter often stated our house because it was closer or work, so police theorized that it might actually be Anna's granddaughter that be had his sights on, and in fact, her granddaughter was scheduled to sleep over the night of the break-in, but her plans changed last minute, and she ended up staying home. One of the most curious things about bt. K. is is how he selected a particular victim and why? So he would just he would just stick save on people, and then he would be served turbine like based. Where they laughed something about them would make him want to stop, and then he would be work on it and figure it out like. Okay, are they somewhere that I? I can get in and out of. You know like He. He worked this up for a very long time with these people, and and he would keep several options I. Mean I hate to say it that way, but he would have several options anyone time of someone he might eventually knockoff. Technology has improved just about everything in our lives from phones cars to shopping yet. Mattresses have more or less than the same SINC- invention of sleep, but we deserved better. And finally the mattress has evolved thanks to purple. The secret to purple is the purple grid is a patented technology instantly adopts your body's natural shape and sleep style purpose for everybody. 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Dry Irritation can be caused by multiple reasons, harsh irritants and wetness name a couple, so for light days you can reach for their panty liners, and when you need more protection, they've got you covered with their super and overnight observances when periods happens, stay protected and help prevent feminine discomfort with carefree breathe. Ultra thin pads, and if you want more information or to figure out where to buy, check it out on Amazon or Walmart, dot com, or you can find it at your local grocery store or CVs. Police were sure the true target at Anna Williams. His home was her granddaughter, but bt. K. was about to throw them yet. Another curve ball. Two months after the break Anna's house on June fifteenth of Nineteen Seventy Eight. Anna went with her daughter to pick up her male the last time she had checked three days prior on the twelfth. In the mailbox there was an envelope addressed to Anna Williams in big block letters with the letter inside. She opened it an inside. There is a poem titled Oh Anna. Why didn't you appear? The writer of the poem complains about waiting for hours inside Anna's home for her to get there and the disappointment he felt when she never arrived, and there was also a drawing of a naked and bound woman next to the woman in this drawing was a scarf and a piece of jewelry, and these two items happened to be the ones that were stolen from Anna's house during the burglary. So this is absolutely terrifying. Because this bt. K. Stalking her, so Anna had been btk as intended target after all. And this? was going to make sure that she knew it. And Decay also sent an identical letter to the one. He sent Anna to cake TV. Clearly. He was really going after this media attention. He wanted so badly. By now the police were under tremendous pressure to catch the psychopath. But, the police could not accurately predict the actions of this killer. which made it not only damn near impossible to catch him? But made the task of protecting the community from him all the more difficult. The cops are feeling the heat. And they try to get resourceful. Right and they're having this trouble anticipating because BC. K. is breaking some of the norms that Syria killers that happened right before him presented so the reason they assumed that Anna. Anna was not actually the target, and as younger beautiful granddaughter was a target is because they're like they'd never experienced a serial killer targeting women of this demographic before, so he keeps switching certain things up not as Emo, not some certain things that he can't go without like the bondage the bindings, but as victimology is all over the place like police don't know who to encourage to be more careful. Everybody should cause anyone could be. One of his victims, so. With the police decide to do to get more resources fall. IS THEY PARTNER UP WITH CAKE? TV The local news station, and they decide to place subliminal message in a report on the btk killer in an effort to get him to turn himself in so this subliminal message included the text now call the chief in quotes, as well an image of a pair of glasses, so these glasses or included because when bt came murdered Nancy Fox there was a pair of glasses lying upside down on her dresser, and they thought that maybe they had been intentionally placed there like maybe it was some of his weird poetic shut. He was trying to spend while he was trying to become the poetic killer. which is one of his name options? But anyways the police theorize that? Maybe if this guy saw picture of these glasses, it might sort of instill. Some evokes an emotion whether that's remorse her Like a compulsion to reach out, they were just hoping that that would happen. In this is the news report in which the subliminal messages in visuals were spliced in. Can you see any pattern to be conduct? We have an individual who apparently has the. Uncontrollable desire to kill times. Rut kind of leads do you have? Honestly we have. No solid leads at all so probably to the shock of no one listening right now. This plan was not a success. The police reported no increased volume of calls from bt. Kay. In fact, this is. Nothing happened. But if you're putting subliminal messages in news reports like you're getting really desperate, but they only had so many resources due to technology limitations at their. Disposal at this point, so they were doing everything that could. So at this point, news outlets started playing the btk as voice on the news with the hope that someone who knew the killer may recognize it. In in the first day, the recordings replayed on repeat. The police received more than one hundred ten tips, but as we know, these particular tips would not lead to the capture of cat. Right at this point it was nineteen, seventy nine and Dennis rader was thirty three years old, and he had two young children, and this you also graduated from the college with a Bachelor's degree in administration of Justice from Wichita University and this is one. We observed the first quote unquote, bt K. gap. The police department that had been plagued with the serial killer were baffled when the killings and correspondence just stopped. But why did he stop back? Then they theorize that perhaps he died. Maybe he'd been jailed, or maybe he moved on and started killing elsewhere. We now know that it's totally possible for serial killers to stop killing when it suits them or for the sake of survival. But why did he stop in this situation? In particular, we hear nothing from bt K. between nine, hundred, seventy, nine and nineteen, eighty five. But although he's inactive, the police are still working behind the scenes to identify him. A brand new bt investigation is opened. And Lieutenant Ken land. Where is one of the sex crime? Detectives assigned to work fulltime on the case, and they call themselves the ghostbusters, and they're going to use new techniques like computer database searches and profiling to identify him. By one thousand nine hundred reiter was forty years old. He was becoming more involved in his church. And wants his son became old enough to became a boy scout leader. Then on April twenty seventh of Nineteen ninety-five bt Kay decided to come out of hiding. fifty-three-year-old marine hedge, who lived just a few houses down from the Raider family disappeared from her home. Brings Daughter and son-in-law were notified that she was missing after one of marines. Co Workers contacted them when Marine missed her shift at a local coffee shop. Rene's son-in-law then went to marines house to check on her, and there was no sign of her anywhere, and she didn't answer the door the next morning when they still hadn't heard from her, she was reported missing. So the please send Canvas Marines home and observed outside that. Our phone lines had been cut. In one thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, six monte-carlo was missing from the home. Every morning Dennis rader would wave to marine hedge on the street whenever he would see route side. And after Marine's disappearance, he assured his family that they were safe in not to worry, but the truth was that rader had killed her the previous night after he snuck away from his son's boy scout camping trip that he was chaperoning, he slipped out of his tent and slipped back. and. He was back at the campsite before anyone even realized he was missing. Marines car was discovered on May second in the parking lot of the Brittany shopping center. The car been there for several days as security guard noted that the car was in the parking lot at nine zero five pm. On April, twenty seventh, which was the day that marine was thought to have disappeared. The car appeared money in some parts have been wiped clean around the trunk and the sides it. It was locked and needed to be opened by a locksmith. The lower driver's side windshield was broken, and too bad covers a purple bedspread, a Tan curtain and a pink Sierras. Electric blanket or found inside the trunk searches for Marine were conducted and then eight days later, the park city police chief discovered the nude decomposing body marine hedge in a ditch. It was commonly used to dispose of trash. Her body was covered with grass and weeds. Pantyhose nodded in a tight loop profound near her remains. The body had been there awhile, so it was riddled with insects. She was conclusively identified using dental records. Marine had bruising to her left Cheek and Chin. Like the others an autopsy would reveal her cause of death. And it was strangulation. I remember that Mrs Hedge. She was in her fetchy. She was a widow she last night seven houses down from us and actually to next to my grandma, she lived between us. You can actually see her yard for my my mom's mom. So he would walk by, you'd say hi. You know nine new. When I was six that she had gone missing. So. She was missing for like ten days, and then they found her body on in the country strangled. So somehow it six I knew that now six year old is not supposed to know these things so either. My parents were talking about which I know they were. And or also heard on the news because you know, the news was on all the time in the eighties. When you're a kid, it's impossible not to notice the shift in BC KS. Mo when looking at the marine hedge case he just got fixated on. The neighbor knew she was an easy hit. But. He changed the Mo so all the other victims he had left in their homes. With her he, he removed her body after he strangle there, so he did the same memo in the house in the phone line. Waited in her closet per to get home, but then he removed her body, and so that was not a bt. K. Think so they did look at K., but they didn't match it because he had changed that Mo just a little bit, and he only changed it because she was too close to our home. So the police actually did combine interview. My mom one day I. was there asking if we had seen anything and I remember that we all know that since Dennis Raiders Capture, he conducted a number of interviews in one. Such interview was with Katherine Ramsland. She eventually wrote a book called Quote Confession of a serial killer. The untold story of Dennis Rader and eventually carry read this book, and so my dad even is interviewed in Rams Lens Book saying he basically got off on me having night terrors after the murder. The lady was murdered down the street like he was worried about me. This is my dad. Like in one since I was worried about my daughter, because she was scared that the lady had been murdered and I also basically got off on it. The next time beats. He came made his presence known was on September sixteenth of eighty sex. It was eleven fifty four am on a man named Gordon Wag early dialed nine one one. The man sounded completely distraught, and he was screaming Vicky Vicky Vicky Vicky Oh God. Oh, no, no, no! Through his sobs, he described coming home for lunch and then walking inside his house, and then he saw his baby sitting on the floor. He played with his baby for a second greeted. The baby acknowledged baby, said hello. He assumed that his wife had run into one of the other back rooms in the house briefly, whether it be to the kitchen to grab a drink or to the bedroom to grab some laundry, or who knows assumed everything was fine that she was in the back of the house, but when he went into the master bedroom. that he shared with his wife, he found her tied up on the bedroom floor. When officers arrived, Gordon was on the front porch of his home. He was crying and he's banging on the walls. And police then enter the bedroom as well and they observe the body. Vicky Wag really. She was wedging a three space between the bedroom wall and the bed her hands were tied behind her back, her feet were bound with leather laces, and with Vicki's body was moved, her left arm fell free from the rope that bound arrests. There was a small pocket knife lying next to her head in this knife was actually Gordon's, and he'd used it to try to cut the nylon stockings and leather laces that or wrapped around his wife's neck off of her in the left the knife fair after he was done. Vicki's jeans were open in her underwear was exposed and her blue top, and raw, were shoved up exposing her breasts and Vicki's Gold monte-carlo was missing from the scene, which prompted this memory for Gordon when he was driving home from lunch, he turn on history and he saw a man in a gold. Drive past him, and he didn't really think much of it at the time due to how commies cars were back then, but now he realized that he had seen his wife's killer in the Gold Monte. Carlo that was stolen from them and this realization was pure agony for Gordon realizing that he had missed the opportunity to possibly save his life's wife by mere minutes, and he said quote. If I had been there five minutes earlier. Maybe I could have done something. And inside the home in the dining room, officers observed a large canvas purse chair near a piano. They also found a piece of pantyhose with several knots and strands of blonde hair which were collected from the floor of the master bedroom. And a pair of stockings with knots and a braided leather shoelace with notts were also collected from the scene. News that the btk killer struck again broke almost immediately and new sources blasted information about the suspect leaving the scene in Vicki's gold nineteen seventy-eight Monte Carlo. One man, who is listened to the radio at the time was a guy named Ron Sparkman. He was listen to Kfi as he made his way to the grocery store. When he turned southbound onto a street, he noticed a gold monte-carlo parked on the side of the road. The time was twelve thirty PM. Just over an hour after Vicki's body had been discovered. The man ran into the grocery store and called nine one one to alert the police. As soon as the police arrived at the car, they identified it as belonging to Gordon Regularly Vicki's husband. It was only a few blocks away from the crime scene. K. had now narrowly escaped twice in the commission of this murder. They were so close, but so so far Vicki's autopsy revealed that she had petillo hemorrhaging in her eyes, and on her face she had abrasions to her right ear to a right cheek and to her line. And she'd clear ligature marks on her neck and her high speed bone was broken. She had binding marks to arrests. She had a gouge mark on the back of her left hand, suggesting she'd put up a fight and she had discoloration on her knuckles. Vicky clearly had fought for her life in law. Enforcement took fingernail scrapings from under her nails. Even though they didn't yet know really what they could do with it, but unlike the seventy S. Things were moving forward with DNA technology while it was still hard to do. It was happening more and more, and it was rapidly improving. And the next year it would start being implemented in criminal cases, Vicki's autopsy revealed that like btk as other victims. She too, had been killed as a result of his. And Strangulation. Following Vicki's murder K. moves into another quote, unquote gap period where no murders are really attributed to him, but he did correspond once more in January of nineteen, eighty eight when he sent a letter to a woman named many figure. Mary was a widow because her husband. and. Her two daughters had been murdered. ten-year-old Sherry and sixteen year old Kelly had been found in an above ground hot tub. Sherry had been drowned Kelly had been strangled and put in the hot tub eight hours after Sherry and Melvin, the dod had been shot. So bt K. hadn't committed these murders himself, but in this letter he expressed admiration for the person who did the letter included a poem called quote Oh God he put Kellyanne Sherry in the top. After bt, K. wrote this letter. It would be five more years before he emerged again so as far as what Dennis Rader was doing. After this in prior to him hitting again in July of eighty-eight, he stopped working eighty. He got fired. And remember, he'd been working at the security company since nineteen seventy four so in those years. He was perfecting the art of burglary, and we see this over and over again with serial killers, moonlighting as cops, moonlighting as security guards, and I see moonlighting, because in that's intentional, because generally speaking the thing that consumes their mind much like a fulltime job would would be serial killing in their their lust in their unusual fantasies and things like that another thing that's interesting. Is that Kerry. that. Anytime, there is a blow to Dennis Raiders Ego bt. K. would sort of pop up, so being off being fired would be a contributing factor to Dennis raiders, sort of like agitation and that Beechy k would need an outlet. Result of some sort of like perceived rejection, which being laid off. For he was at this company for over ten years. You know that would probably eat at him. Right after he stopped working for eighty Dennis, rader began working for the U S Census Bureau. and. This was a terrible job for someone like him because it allowed him to travel around the country. Doing God knows what focusing on God knows. Who and God knows where? And my dad wanted to be a cop. I'm pretty sure. My Dad's sat for the police exam. Dad was literally sitting in Criminal Justice at night, studying his own crime seats. And really enjoying that by the way, and my dad was a adt security person, and then he lost his job with Adt then he then he got a job the census, which was perfect, because he travel all over and be in people's homes. You know so. He did all sorts of stocking breaking and entering, and he got to stay in hotels and play his hotel games. He's known for those pictures and stuff. So Again He would do that for a while, and then it wouldn't be enough. So when he would come up to college like he would come up without my mom. He would be on business trips. You know and he would take me to eat like. Down in Aggie bill for the bars are. Was He? Was He talking like college girls at that time? Probably, I don't know. In one thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, one Dennis rader begins his job as the park city compliance supervisor, and he's enforcing laws about animal control in inoperable vehicles, and this department has only two employees, but it was this multifunctional department. He was also in charge of issuing. And issuing citations if people did things without permits. An in this position, neighbors recalled him as sometimes being over zealous and extremely strict and one neighbor in particular, complained that Raider actually euthanized her dog for zero reason, so it really sounds like he was like flexing his power any chance he really got. By new years of Nineteen ninety-one, the terror that was bt K. was fading from view. But coming a distant nightmare from long ago. No murders matching his emo. had been committed. Nor had he taken credit for any murders? Nor had he corresponded with police. But that was all about to change. It was twelve forty, nine on January, nineteenth, nineteen, ninety, one when Sheriff Deputy. Gorman Shaw was dispatched to the scene of a possible burglary. The man who reported the crime was named Thomas Ray. and. He said that the owner of the home was missing. Her name was Dolores Davis otherwise known as D. Mr explained that he was a mechanic and he was supposed to work on these car that day, but she wasn't home and he couldn't reach her. Mystery explained that there were some characteristics of the home that were pretty unusual when he initially arrived immediately noticed that the outdoor light was on, and the curtains were still drawn, which was really strange, because St was usually an early riser, her car was in the driveway, and Di never left her car out. Mr Ray entered the home through the garage. He made his way through the kitchen and he noticed the phone had been pulled off from the wall Jack. He made his way into the living room, and he saw broken glass and a cinder block on the floor, and there was also broken glass and a center block in the master bedroom, and all the sheets have been stripped from the bed and were missing. The police searched the home and the surrounding area and learn that one of these jewelry boxes was missing from the scene. There was a lot of broken glass in the home. Suggesting a possible struggle had taken place. And oddly this is super. Weird the keys? Dis Car were found on the roof of their home. Police also found a rug in the trunk of her car and outside police made A. Discovery a purple hairnet and the bushes. In this country this hairnet. I actually didn't dig too deep into it I did like a quick couple. Google's in it, but it's like I feel like he started reading in hearing that DNA was a thing, so the wrote fans undecided heat wear a hairnet to make himself just. In bulletproof, he thought I'll like I'm GonNa like nip this thing in in? Abide like I'm GONNA. Wear a hairnet. Make this guy's of. But anyways, maybe got it to yeah. Maybe he liked it, but that was my analysis of the hairnet that was discovered. So later, the blankets and sheets that were missing from these bad were found in Calvert on the side of the road nearby based on all these very chilling characteristics presented at these home. The police believe that she had in fact been abducted, and they were right, because on February first of ninety one fifteen year, old boy, who was walking his dog discover dis body. These body was wrapped in a blanket. She was wearing a nightgown and her breasts were exposed. In there was a piece of cloth, wrapped around her neck. Her legs were tied together at the knees. We've seen this before. A blanket or comforter was on the ground next to her. And there was a snuggle sack late nearby her as well. In win this fifteen year, old boy, May this discovery. He was so disturbed by what he saw that he ran. Home in the wrong direction, just frantic and terrorize D-. In Kerry can recall what life was like and what her father was doing in nineteen, ninety one when he murdered D Davis. So then he didn't. Murder Mrs Davison Ninety One and he lost his job. My mom was at the hospital. He was very depressed so I can. I can match these things up now. And he basically murder just as out like that outlet. And again he changed that Mo.. Murdered her in her house, but then he drove her in her car and a couple of different places, so took him a really almost took a month to find her. And so again I don't think they even looked to be necessarily for that one because it had been so long. But then he stopped after that one. There's one piece of evidence that was found on the body of Davis that we hadn't previously mentioned. DIS, killer had placed a very eerie looking porcelain mask on his face after he placed her body under this bridge. In the mask is painted to have fair skin, bright red lips in very dark eyebrows. It looked like an old China doll. This begs the question. Why did be decay? Choose to do this in this instance when he hadn't done anything like this before. But we do know is that Davis would ultimately be bt. Case final known murder victim. In an a strange symbolic way. We have to ask. Did this act of leaving this mask with these bodies represent the first step in btk as own unmasking. Whether, it was intentional or not. The answer is yes, even though it would be another eleven years before his identity would be revealed. Next week will take you. Through Dennis Raiders final years as Btk K., his crescendo in his correspondence with police, the narcissism that would be his downfall in the life, shattering moment that carry found out that her father was be k., and of course we'll also get an Dennis. Rader Miss Subsequent Fashions. Until then a huge huge thanks to carry and make sure you come back next week for our conclusion of our three part series of bt K., because we really are saving the best for last, and you know btk, as one of the most infamous serial killers of our time, but no story is too small or insignificant for us to tell so. Please email us if you have. Have a story to tell hello the first Greek PODCAST DOT com. You can follow us on Instagram at the first degree out Alexis linkletter at Billie Johnson at Jack Vanik. Please join us in our facebook. Group is searching the first degree and the facebook search bar. We're talking true crime all the time and stick around because we're GONNA kill some time. Answer some of your questions. Until then remember only you can prevent serial killers. And keep your friends close. But nine. Piazza. How Day that no! Happy Meet Day by. Sources for today's episode includes court documents. The Wichita Eagle Kansas Dot com the Atlantic the Associated Press, and as always our first three guests are always our largest source. You know as most of us have found out the hard way. 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Dot Com to learn more. and. All right well welcome to another episode of killing time or how we like to call it Katy for short, and we've had so many Katie's in our facebook group try to elect themselves to be our mascot and I think we should have a competition. I think they're all the mascot now. That's one collective Katie. If, you're Katie you are the mascot. We don a whole bunch of. Some kind of trials yeah, the more the Merrier, all kinds. Anybody named Katie is now our mascot of killing time so for this week's episode of killing time a couple of weeks ago, we had asked the members of our facebook group to write us like. Quarantine centric type of questions and I think when we first did it. We only got through one question because we always get sidetracked and go on some sort of a tangent about nothing. So we're going to answer some more questions, are you guys already? Born ready. Okay so this is a good one to start Christina Johnson says. I thought of day when you wake up. I can't be honest about that. That's not. All right I'M Sure. You can't there. Yeah! What's the? What's the word. The day or like first thing you do in the morning because I'm not really thinking in the morning. Okay. What's the first thing that you do in the morning? I check my phone. Check my phone and then I do whatever draws attention I. The top taxed the top alert. That's usually what I do I usually could skim that email that you know email mail the comes. Look at the skin. Check like all the websites for Jonathan Adler canisters. Because that's what I'm obsessed with watching now like psychopath. Because they're the vintage. Ones are defined I. Check like macario check posh market check Ebay like I saying every morning and then I. Get up and I start obsessing about crazy shit. That's. Really. What's your status? My True I. Yeah. No, I definitely look at the phone i. Check tax, check email check. Any of the facebook pages of cases that I'm running to see if I got an e tips in and then just start from there. And then. then. You're just on onto the day. So I when I wake up in the morning, I'll do like the CECCHI thing whatever then I make everything in a very specific quarter ultimate warning. And then my day is just gonNA. Be Off, bless your. Host the literally only OCD with my morning routine, my nighttime routine, and then everything else in the day can just be like a cluster. Can All be totally fine? But I'll wake up. Make a coffee brush, my teeth P. Pick up the coffee. Sit in bed, and then my new morning routine of drinking my coffee while sitting in bed is either going on the coronavirus sub Reddit or Checking houses on Red Fin, and then that is how I begin my day, my Zan Okay, that's not that's crazy routine. And then all the little animals from the woods, common dress, you yeah. Yeah Yeah you know me. I'm just like Chipper as like that. Right. Here is our next question. Brittany asks. What is your favorite thing about one another? This is going to be a bonding question, guys. God and who's GonNa. Go? I Know. Billy just. About. I'm not going I. All Ago God guys g I'll go second. Okay, my favorite thing about Billie Jensen is. He is so unapologetically himself and really Embraces these weird qualities that I really enjoy about you that make you so distinctly you and with anybody else on this call. These will be strange. You'RE NOT No you're not at all like your love for Disney Super Creepy and anybody else, but you I love that you'd like double down on the things you love and like the Corgi qualities about you and I think it's a I like it. Okay thank you hell, yeah, come! And Alexis I just love everything about you. About you to this is so easy. We can even pick A. Nice I love you so much. We have so much fun. We do everything together. You know all my deepest darkest secrets you keep them. You brought jared into my life I love your parents I love everything about you. Like you're my sister. I know you're my favorite ever time. Anything happens. I WANNA call you I. You're the best so. Sorry Billy to try to complement. Yeah I'm. GonNa have to follow that. Go ahead try billion. Oh, yeah no what I love about Jack is her. That, she is nothing sort of flusters. Her Jackie just sort of if if you're around Jack. She just is the most sort of go with the flow type of person that I've ever really been around. And that's pretty cool. Yeah, so I really I really dig that. And then there's like the creativity stuff and the entrepreneurial stuff and of that which is really cool as well, but you can. You can do a lot of those things and still. And be really like uptight or whatever, but you're just like whatever. Task. ATTRACTIVE APATHY! was. On the right things and not apathetic about the things that matter, but she she really does know how to like nail it in like. She doesn't sweat the small stuff really. She'll be. And Yeah when I'm like Jack this happened. And why do you care? That's a fair point. What do I care I? Don't care yeah. Billy Alexis what's your favorite thing about Alexis linkletter? I think the big question is. What do I not like about Alexis linkletter? DATA LEASE A few things that I can think. No? I think just. I think my favorite thing about Alexis is her her drive and her constantly being on especially, I've never been I've worked with so many people in the true crime community, but Alexis really does. Is surrounded by all the time I think she ingests more true crime than anybody that I now and she produces marcher crime than anybody that I now. She's constantly producing, and then which is not producing. She's ingesting, so it's. It's incredibly hard to keep up with her, too. I did this I. Know that that I know that we make this point and we talk about this all the time, but it is actually unbelievable the amount of work that Alexes does like this podcast. It's like yeah. We're all spending a couple of hours recording it right now, but. But Alexis is the one that writes. The entire script researches everything does the interview trust me I've tried to help? Her does not happen like she is a one woman show and it's like and you can't. You can't give it up because you're better at doing it than anybody else, and it's just like I'll just get in the way. I, remember the one time I tried to help you out like. An hour looking like one little thing that I would say. The thing is is you are so c for saying this because you know all of my self esteem comes from my productivity. So on. Three on the Anagram UH. So I really, that's so sweet of you, but to say, but the one thing I'll say is like it's such a hard thing to share like. If you're writing the script, it's hard. It's hard to split that up like if. Billy, one of the Black Dahlia scripts by himself and I. Don't remember why or what was happening, but you did a great. He's great. It's hard to split that up. It's kind of like a one person slow. Process but can be too many cooks in a kitchen. Account. Designed by committee right, but like Jack. You've read more books. True crime books than I have and billy like obviously you have more experience than I do, but you guys humor me by just sorting, allowing me to like. You know control the flow of our podcast, and I'm so grateful and you know how much I love it and I love you guys. I think that there is also just this understanding of like we each have our own talents, and we know how to stay in our own lanes, and if we if we tried like going and different persons lane and do the skills that the other person has. It's just like argue over here. Yeah, that me and billy of had some. We've bumped. We've we've gotten some collisions over that. Act lets me be crazy, and then we'll change the the outline in just not say anything like. This because that's why do I need to know just? So you do in the future. My personality I can handle that just change. The best thing the best thing ever is when billy does make a change, and then it might be an like an Alexis par, and then short. Read it, and she'll get all like floss, not flooded or Change this colonial. He's like key I changed it for because it would be Boban. You know now it's wrong. Yeah. We cut all that out, but it is amusing, and it does happen, but I will say oh. I didn't go with my favorite thing about billy yet. We're going back. My favorite thing about billy is that he is really As a friend someone. If you become close ability, he's very thoughtful. Whole. Remember something you. He'll remember something you said like. In passing months ago and then like see something in grab it for you like He. He sent Jack a book out of nowhere. You Know I. Think a month or so ago like he's just sort of. He's got his intent up to be considerate whenever he sees an opportunity based on, you know It's. It's an assuming because billy's like a big guy and he's like true crime. Dark Dude Kness, thoughtful and And really best gift. Giver I've ever met. Best Gift Giver and Gift Giving is something that men are usually terrible at so that is a very unique skill for somebody to have. I've literally had to teach jared. The cracked gifts to give me that on. But as taken two years, but like you just have such a great. You're just naturally so good at it and that's it's such a very unique quality especially for man. Yeah and like you I mean billy is also really passionate about what he does I mean I. Think everybody here on this podcast is like we all have our hands in a lot of things, but certainly billy is consistent in his. Pursuit of helping victims and Justice tonight and I usually would be like sarcastic when I was saying like pursued. I oversee justice. The. Sometimes. We're when when we're having drinks or something, and we want to do a toe, sometimes I say to justice, and she just looks at me and rolls or is and lasts. Throws a drink in my opinion. cheesy things bar, but I think maybe deep down. You do actually mean that which is another? He does this just so easy to make fun of sometimes you know Deli slender men Johnson. Named Sundermann No. I think we've had about fifteen minutes fifteen. We should call. We're GONNA. Call it, it's. Got To wait till. Fifteen exactly on the DOT by. Boo Boo Boo.
Episode 560 - The Mummy Returns
"This is a head gum podcast. Hey everybody it's chris from the show you are presumably currently listening to. I wanted to tell you about another show. You should be listen to right now. And that's green x. Dan a great podcasts. From the multi-talented. Dan but dan is an actor writer restaurant tour n. Comedian you might recognize from netflix. Cobra kai and kevin james is the crew on each episode of his podcast. Dan quizzes a famous guest very personal topic their fridge. This season guests include legendary chef. Jacques pepin modern family stars. Jesse tyler ferguson. Who'd lab author j. Kenji lopez salt and emmy winning actor. Henry winkler himself. Who will all show dan. What's in their fridges. The conversation starts with food favorite topic of mine where it ends. Well you'll just have to tune in to find out subscribe. Listen and discover something new. About what your food says about you with green eggs and dan available wherever you. Listen to your podcast. This week on the program. Step right up for some of the worst. Cgi you'll ever see in your life. It's the mummy returns on andrew stevens. Sade acting bobby cisco cabin returns and we hate booties. Hello everyone welcome. The fine program has always. That's right this week. The summer blockbuster. Extravaganza is back franchise town. We are talking. It's ending do this. Is the list last one. Always you can tell folks. I am incapable of looking at calendars. This is how a rap rounding out the twenty twenty one. Sba steven summers returns to write and direct. The mummy returns from ought one. Somehow the mummy returns somehow indeed. Dude upfront we should say. If you're a patriot subscriber. You were stoked to know that. Our good buddy ben. Wooster was opposed to here on this episode but he is currently out on an assignment. Yes as soon as we had to send into honduras short short short bad movies down there. We got him on the the next boat out just outside of the multiplex down there laughing but when you see his reporting when it comes in really your socks off. Yeah there's going to be. Yeah it's like mike lindell levels of residents revelations two hour documentary about what he saw down there But yeah this is. Of course the sequel to the nineteen ninety nine smash sensation. The mummy starring brendan fraser and previous episode. My better movie. I have not a. We did that episode teen somehow. Somehow that was last. I was just last june. I couldn't even believe it when i can't remember a single joke. I making that episodes again. Good for you. They weren't memorable. I guess that's a good point. Yeah everybody's freaking memories gone anyway totally. You can make all the we can use. Should actually listen to the old episode. Just give me your weekend. We week off. We should start really phoning this in. You know like the other guys dax. Those are brand x. Pods and this is the top shelf also like because this movie is so gosh dern similar to the nineteen ninety nine move a like you might who knows this episode. Might you might be able to sink them up. Yeah and lame at the same time and it might be the exact same lack of time. I might not picking his nose now. Oh good alex. I might even be telling a story about my dad yanking me out of this movie that i think i might have even told in the first one back before we Retread old material. Let me hit play real quick coming soon to theaters. Oh far the vhs trailer game. Everybody but eric's favorite About arcade materials. Ladies gentlemen notice those folks. I was trying to be nice. I was just reading through it. Then he goes dig right out of the took out of the game. Do you spend night day. How did we on twitter about the content This is the game as you know. This is we've only got one. This is the penultimate do vhs trailer. I don't have the scores in front of me. But i will on the last one which i'm going to spoil. Can i spoil when the when the oil away dude. It's going to be the last episode of august which will be our mad. Max beyond thunderdome live episode. There will be right. Vhs trailer game that'll be recorded specifically for that. That's that's gonna do. It originally was part of that episode. Live but it got cut for time. So we're gonna do it and it's going to be on that episode. It's wanna let people know that if you saw in tuned into frequency thank you but that's why wasn't on and it'll be so brand new material for you when when it when it gets released in august you'll be really excited about. That will know who the winner is at the end of that episode. Will around the win. Chris on we don't know Vhs trail again For those initiated this game we play every month. Where in these. I i read off clues. These guys guests at it The scoring goes five four. Three two one at each clue if somebody guesses incorrectly in that round. They're out of that round brown until the next trailer is Is gonna answer superfund game. You'll love it and this is something you see on the you. You buy vhs tape and yeah watch it and these are the trailers that are before in this case the money. The mummy returns exactly that. I will also say this in august when that episode airs. I'm gonna have a a little raffle going on twitter on the wgn. Podcast twitter That's going to go to some charity at you. The winner will get signed. Vhs is what it is the most expensive way to throw out garbage. I will find a good charity. You'll you'll be a good way to hear you throw this out sweepstakes here we go. Let's get into it brown one This reminder this is a two thousand one movie. I think at least one. Or even more of these are previous episodes. Holy moly credential. We're talking about here. Ladies and gentlemen Game masters clue a holiday rom with shudder adducing. Makeup design starring a former tv star and directed by a former tv star. I know what it isn't a can't think of the movie. Can you repeat the. I can a holiday loser. Jupiter i heard goes ding in just friends. Not so i'll go down cisco go on game masters closer. A holiday rob filled with shudder. Inducing makeup designs starring a former. Tv stars god directed by a former tv. I can't believe i fuck this up. Well i don't even know it trivia. Okay people are yellow. Their cars later trivia for four points. No movie other than this has featured so many characters in heavy makeup since the wizard of oz. Oh guys come on levi h shit. It's a bunch of people covered in makeup Star movie. Can i help out with one thing. Oh if you wanna help out your for you should probably just whisper it to eric. It's not gonna help anybody but maybe the correct your mind's a little bit it's terrible. It's terrible and people ridge. It is terrible good for you. All right i like where this is going so or was it the how the grinch stole christmas yet. It's i mean how. I'm gonna we now what we're talking about here. It's the jim carey. Tv star probably fuck that but that was deliciously on son drowned to everybody's back here in nother entry. In a sci fi adventure franchise that loses its prestige director and refocuses on a major character from the first film. so it is eight nother entry. In a scifi adventure franchise okay. So sequel that loses its prestige director and refocuses on a major character from the first film. Is that so. It's a different protagonists. But it was someone who was also in the first something like that baby man and another means. It might not be number two. It could be further focuses on a character from the first film The first film that might have been like in retirement for the inter luding film or ira right. And it's science fiction. A sci fi adventure franchise lost its prestige director for this one guys There was a prestige director involved. This is the first time he said. No thank you. He or she was the whole clued in game. Masters clue definitely pass take. That's all i wanted. Other entry in a sci fi adventure franchise that loses its prestige director and refocuses on a major character from the first film. I'm going to move onto tribune. Two seconds go. You can do it. Andrew reports now though i fucking suck shit already. A right trivia tribute trivia stan. Winston likes to say we don't do special effects we that's editor been drastic park three that is jurassic park. We're big for my mind. Cause think about the time period has like. Is this alien resurrection. That's the first one thing. Where you okay last one. But there's a bonus round and now just for no reason just because the first two were on my my vhs tape and there was a a five minute clip from the upcoming scorpion gig movie with. Michael clarke duncan is in that movie. That's right. I forgot about that. Yeah but this one because it was trailer like there was a lot of. You should buy other universal movies. I wound up going to the uk on youtube so this one is off the uk uk movie at all. It's an american movie but just enough. Why i it's a little different game. Keep that in game. Masters clue to huge stars are paired for the first time in this offbeat romantic vehicle center on an antique gun. That's the mexican our. Yeah all that together yes totally. The flex days is being shut out day or is this all part of our plan. What that's what it is to try to global. Clean my clock on beyond thunderdome right so for five points. Here is the bone the first of two bonus questions the second one or the anyone's gonna get who knows so bonus and now. Here's the way this is going to have to go. Yeah i need you all to wait until i complete speaking and then raise your hand because it's going to be more of a guessing thing and i don't want you just raised a guess. Gotcha okay Okay bonus based on a two thousand and one release date. Where by wearing mean. Which number was the tremors franchise at ooh cabin for in iraq indirect as well. He's got to go through. That's my big wide is there is there. Is there four or five hundred now. they're now. I think our five lake as of most recently as maybe like a year or two ago there was like a new cannon tremors movie that was like sci fi early way and i think that might be five. So they're five points for injured and finally for ten bonus whilst fuck if you could give me the full title to tremors three. Oh the subtitle. Does anyone have the subtitle. Trevor strike trimmers three aftershocks knock three colon world at war dash underground. That is correct. Kris give it a shot. Tremors three returned to perfection. Oh yes okay with the tower. Yeah ten points. No one was gonna get done now. I regret not being a tremors fan. I wish bent maybe ben. Worcester's of tremors vanities excreted card honduras. Hopefully we'll get back with that report soon. Ben can't believe they sent me here. I could have had this one. The guests might had it man so yeah the mummy returns this has it starts with this like Like you know this prologue about the scorpion is the when team. And it's a different movie. It is it's thirty minutes of the scorpion king. Movie thirty sixty seven bc. Oh nice to see you now. The time later on we go out. We move ahead to nineteen thirty-three egypt as right so we all know it's just like the the rock was this is i like breakout movie. This is his first movie period. Yes he looks small he yeah. Nowadays he looks like the cloverfield monster but here he looks like a. This looks like attainable. This is what he looked like minus the long hair. This is what he looked like when he was wrassling yes. This was his wrassling. I didn't have the shades in this one though that would but i'll tell you what we are having a ball with the eyebrows. Oh yeah both on the rock during this prologue and then the cartoon character rocket end of this movie. What a nightmare. that is. What a living nightmare that. It's absolutely unbelievable. How terrible it looks like. He looks more realistic in the wwf. Attitude game that came out nintendo sixty four where he and stone cold. Steve austin are just like fucking polygons fighting each other way more realistic than this movie. Man it's nuts like how much how much businesses give it to the scorpion king. When he doesn't matter like mean. I guess the idea is to set up the spin off. But i mean my god like just making either make an arnold vosloo is the bad guy or bubble or you know the or or the rock. You can't have both. I mean. I feel like there was a last minute pitch to that because like it does feel like it just is on the a book ends the movie. Bring him at the end and like you could have just had the scorpion king. Being stupid scorpion. Instead of like center is just not have them at all. You can just be like. Oh it's about the bracelet if you ever the bracelet gets the undead army or whatever at in like oh yes scorpion king. It's kind like why. I wish it was more. Just centered on vaas. Lose imhotep character in. This movie is because that is the track of those the og universal monster movie mummy movies. Yeah just like every episode are every sequel is just like some other undercover follower of whatever the you know sect is the secret cult that worships the mummy just resurrecting the same dude more or less and like so. Just do that. Like it's it's another guy. It's mr whatever the fuck in. This movie is museum curator. Who's like secretly bad. I mean on secretly bad. I guess to the audience. Yeah it's it's weird too because like it's we lose a lot of that universal you Mummy stuff that is in the first one that i was very aware of that stuff. This is just sort of like a sequel going in its own way and it's a bad way. It's very bad way. I mean because you're trying to do a bigger indiana jones esque adventure which the first movie is very much. Like you know influenced by indiana jones. This movie way more so the score is completely stealing. Indiana jones music. John williams music. But like we're in this big blimp and there's tidal waves now all this other end like all of it looks rotten. No no no ours. Goes bob papa. Bath guy love. There's one cnn when they're when returning home in the beginning of the movie brendan fraser's even wearing the hat and i'm like that's illegal. That's it was fucked up this time guys. You now spielberg's gotcha and it's kind of funny that he's gonna take these fuckers down do it all right. I'll take you off the leash. George them sue them to your heart's content. It's almost like because like he comes up to rachel vice in the foyer of their big house and she takes off immediately. Don't don't let anybody see what that office you. she's but yeah it's it's the story of the scorpion king. Who was the legendary scorpion king question. Barak ruler everybody loved him huge army. Someone was like he was like. I'll give my soul to a new base. Who's a real guy by the way and a dog man. And then he'll give me this dead army and you see this on not on their dog men at this this regular duh living dogmatic demonic kind of i guess people yeah says new business army the whole thing with the scorpion king. I think the deal is. He's like 'cause they get caught in the desert and they're all dying and he makes it. We're told a deal with a new business like if you spare my man i'll be like in your service or do they're a forever war they lose and there's this great shot of the rock. Look it's totally silent. He looks back at like the forever award is well you would have. The scorpion gained kick around anymore. At banish. the desert is and his thing specifically if you If you let me help me cast revenge on my enemies okay. That's why he gets the yummy. Yeah he praised for an oasis and like the background from donkey. Kong country up. I thought i was going to see a barrel explode with bananas atlanta an-and manninen and boy man anna fun clunky little music. Oh yeah come on. Scorpion the cgi is awful in this movie one cgi. Moment i did like when this little cities being attacked. You see like little people fall off buildings stuff it's cute. I think there's a lot of like bad computer miniature shit like one shot where it's capturing the train from very far away and it's clearly just a little computer train. It looks like some bad thomas. The tank engine the smoke mummy face at the end of this is from a scrapped. The third album by snot was going to use. This fucking picture is disgusting. I like this not man. Open louis crew. Teach you yes i did. Oh it's not a real bands talked. I thought you were making a fake rat or some people are screaming in their cars. Not fans you know. I like to rub it on a napkin myself. I will say. I i don't know what do you think is worse the oasis really bad when it pops up. Yes it's really. It's either that or the scorpion king at the end. Or maybe someone's got a dark horse. No i th. I think the order has to go scorpion. King yeah yeah and then that fucking blimp that get away by the tidal wave the dogma now the dog being our data's some sub scooby fucking goofy here lurk. Numerously your road egypt. They'll have to cut your head off the goof troop dude. This is what it is. death are goofy. I'm gonna take your soul forever mic. Who max you're going to be buried with me. Oh yeah berry that fucking kid. But yes and the scorpion. King gets to destroy this other town that he was really mad at and then it's like all right now. You're banished forever. The now he's yeah. He gets swallowed up by something. The rock is doing some bad screaming here. That every years of the year the scorpion. And that's the one you wanna go out for right. He gets hit by like a son. Bolts yes latte whatever his tickets to bit lifting the fucking bodies totally old god. It's stupid yes. It's just so weird. Like you castlerock. Like and i know obviously like you're afraid because it's a wrestler like could go really bad which usually does absolutely it almost always blows up in your face. But so that's why you're protectors. He's not gonna talk. But it's like i wanted to talk. 'cause fucking dwayne johnson who is actually really good. It is weird though looking back now. Twenty years after the endless string of movies that that dude is made you know. I think we kind of take that for granted. Yeah you're right looking back on it now. You're like wednesday going to say something especially now like he. He's a delivery guy your way. He says things makes him at this point. They're just like okay. What i want you to do is growl in that direction. Like he's always in these movies. He's always referring room. South is like the big ball brown monster all like he does that on instagram. That's all the ball ball really bald monster to share and so it's weird now where it's like. He has one line this movie that the subtitles were at least trying to tell me was ancient Arabic or something. Ancient egyptian may be like sure. I who knows if any of that languages legitimate. But that's what's so. He's got one line in there and then he's this little yellow soul pushed out of his classic. The mummy thing it's like. Are you vaguely brown. Then you're a mummy. Then you're an ancient egyptian but We're going with that Something something it looks terrible. Let i don't remember. It's just so stunningly bands. No we're just in the desert in. He gets the bolt and then we cut to back to brendon. Frazier rachel vice. And this kid now i fuck it is. I need to notice. Somebody has to give me this here. We go where where. They're getting their money. And you went up to this person who's giving like. Yeah we're going to go to this collapsing building in the middle of honduras. It's like it's just completely wreck. We're bringing our bureau child. No insurance that worry about it. We're good was nineteen thirty. Three was insurance advantage. True thirty-three like thirty actually but that kids expected to work on the dick right. I guess so. I'm still like you're giving them money to bring their kid along. You bring them along. And then you're like all right junior. You hang out this fucking sarcophagus. Mommy and daddy are going to go fuck in the next few. Because that's what this is all about. They are so forty and this kid is a wet blanket from that dick. Get where it needs to go. I think they they're two parents that realized like a. We definitely shouldn't have had this kid and it's like they love him the care about him obviously the whole movies them trying to get him back but part of them is like man i. We can't just come home from a nice dinner out and just start fucking on the kitchen floor like we can't like our lives forever now are just everything has to revolve around this little alex so and you have to imagine after the first movie they get back they are fucking like rabbit. Shana survived the mummy. Fucking non stop and then this piece of shit kid has to come around and like well. He's touching on this shit with fucking chocolate the fingers in the desert that long dry. You wanna be home in wet. Exactly did you go to england. You're back to england. You get fish chips and you get wet dude. Things are getting a little fishy but yes he's like all right. You just hang out in this fucking abedin crypt little again like you get a babysitter or like stick with john. Hannah if you gotta get that scumbag. Brother-in-law is higher meant. He's coming on the adventure also is of course he is elvin for. This is not there yet. You just he's got to be the babysitter forever. Look you've just stick this kid england put up a fuck it foster dutt. Didn't they added rich. People send their kids to like boardings switzerland or some chance. Just have a big burly person whip. Dad go to uncle school instead. I guess that what john hannah would be giving him. Yeah yeah Lessons and how to be a selfish coward. That's look always have a cleavage on your arm. That's less than number one happy summer and let's talk about keeping mr happy happy. Yup it's that time of the year for camping. Pitching tents and all sorts of sexual shenanigans. That's right this episode is sponsored by blue shoe guys. Confidence can take you far in life and it can also help in the bedroom especially when it comes time to step up to the plate. And that's where comes in before you come. 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In addition the lessons you could access podcast games videos stories and even live classes. So come on right now when you purchase three month babble subscription you'll get an additional three months for free that six months for the price of three just babble dot com and use promo code w. h. m. that's b. a. b. b. e. l. dot com promo code. Whm face for an additional three months. Babbled dot com promo code. Whm let's learn some languages folks. How do you do that. I guess by being like a famed. You know explorer groping someone is no but the lady who's you come done with him is limited. It's like oh well eggs cleavage on your arm of dislike is growing. Our old. Speak like you know. I'm candy. I understand peace cleavage here on the dumb choice here to do this at all is just infuriating because idiot you don't need. The movie came out twos after the first one is set ten years after the first one this kid can be talking and running around and doing things to help the story this notion of like well. They obviously have to have a kid. No they don't have two years later. There's another fucking. Mummy admits what what were you. Were you worried that the kids weren't relating to the adventurer. The aristocracy o'clock is wrong with you that you don't need to baby more. You're not gonna get three-year-olds interested in it. They don't understand what's going on around. This kid is like three right. Is that the idea of ten years old ten. I'm sure he's ted but ten is he's like three going on ten. I mean they don't say when he was born but they do. This movie takes place ten years. After the i i feel like she got pregnant. Immediate right away because they were fucking on the boat back. Get me Well i tried to wrap my dick and cheese cloth as a kind of way to stop sperm into her. But it didn't work didn't work got a kid. Now she blew out that cheesecloth and the part is it's fine. It's fine to have the kid. They sit in the other room. And now all of a sudden like rachel vices talking about visions like in all right dear adding a lot of stuff into this movie that does not exist in the first movie visions. Dreams fucking kid the ship. I think the problem with them is really the actor oil. He's ted sucks. Well also like just giving them a bunch of one liners and he's got attitude dance terrible and eric. I'm sorry for this little too. Aaron for my taste frazier and rachel vice should be just a little bit more ravishing unrealistic. I would say so. I i will say because we mentioned i do know. We mentioned a lot the first movie the first episode. She's fixed her eyebrows folks are. They've fixture eyebrows boop really skinny like really like she's got regular eyebrows. Rachel vice said we're all doing great. I do appreciate that. They allowed the character to continue existing in the form that it's in at the end of the first movie because the first movie her arc part of it is like she goes from mousy librarian to getting in on the adventure at the end this movie. She's a full-on like totally hot adventure. Babe what's go and it's just like i'm glad it didn't go back to like she's still against the mousy librarian and we're hitting the reset button like that actually allows the the character to continue growing which is cool only to appoint because these magic visions that. She's having a nowhere and spoiler alert. Everybody she is the fucking reincarnated nefer. Td the daughter of pharaoh from the first movie like out tau. Why did that come up with the last movie. Somebody's what somebody should have sets the only the only even like the ref at all. That's even close to this as she does say in the first movie That her mother was egypt's yes. That's it that's the only thing that's the only way they're able to tie in this terrible development for this character because they definitely didn't think i was going to be as big a hit as it was this was rushed. They were like get this going now. Luli you you just give yourself so much more work. So she's like seeing all this opaque. It's this way that's what i remember it and i don't know how it okay. Great cut this bark on his arm all of a sudden which is such bullshit. He says he got it at the orphanage. Or whatever stamp. They put on my arm at the orphan. Hirose bring me a kid. I'll tattoo is arm. And then let's check to see if it looks anything like that when he's thirty five years after you have battled the mummy. I don't care that you're an orphan. Yeah are now a world. Famous fucking monsignor chandler over it obviously just say after. You defeated the mummy. That mark mysteriously appeared. It's certainly not in the first bucket. No not at all. That's it's just another one of these dumb changes they make for this movie and i. I'm sorry that should is desperate. It's like you couldn't find another way around that and you're right like explain it in. Something happens to him at the beginning of the movie and then it appears on his wrist. Air dealing with magic and mummies. It's the mummy returns. Ladies and gentlemen. Scorpion king get his soul sucked out by the wind. Quick digression i looked up. This charles actor freddie both here has enacted since two thousand thirteen uh-huh and the last thing he worked on was house of a new. This sound familiar. Egyptian god again. Oh we're reprising his character. No he was playing. Benji read okay. Apparently he was. This kid was such a fan of the original mummy. And again this is. i'm debbie. Oh i know. I read this. Read this he decided he had an opportunity to act that it said what role right in harry potter and said nah dude. Mummy returns. Joe sills this is why mommy and daddy need to be doing harry potter movie all five dot. But it's interesting. Because i will do these area gotta dare that arab pin either same reaction to think about it for a second that mummy movie was massa. Nobody fucking knew what harry potter was going to turn into that kid. Tim roth at the same situation. They had the opportunity. They didn't do it. It sounds good on right. Because it's like i'll be the one kid in harry potter. It's mean fifteen others totally because he wasn't up for we say a rabbit rat. Yeah that's rambo. Marriage harry porter daniel rabbit daniel. Rabbit is a defected What he do rabbit. Peter rabbit abomination of a film. Right that there's a sequel out there right now. Nokia fucking james corden. America's beloved funny eleven american comedian. James had the first one that dumb gleason like we had to get the talent out comes. James corden who who's playing the rabbit isn't him in and gordon again. He's always been the rabbit he just doesn't cause out now i'll mccown of rabbit arab shit pilots. I if i were. Cbs hey man have sold this time to do all these other movies and your show still sucks stay. You can do other any other movies until your show is good enough to stay late and make this show good before you even go off and your movies but until this show is even remotely good. You're not allowed to leave war about backed by the serious all syria. Seriousness guys. like james corden is listening. Contact me because i know you have a line on the devil rate. Deal with the devil. And i've been trying to do some black art stuff in my spare time. Oh cool has it yielded much results. Is that what that i tattoo. Is that the orphan. It only took eleven seasons but you finally developed your orphanage. Is this why you asked me to get all those frog tongues. Yes right you got that. I knew i do. You gonna pay me finally time paying a welt on your bottom. Whatever their their rating this tomb. this is where they get the fuck of box with the bracelet on earth. These three zeros. Yup who you're supposed to joy these engines the bad grave robbers but we are the good grave. Robber has suddenly vote. Evil in quotation marks like working class. English accents that they're like the scumbag won the tall one. Looks exactly scott. Aquaman i i can't right like oh shit cutoff. They're smart because the first one they had the handsome americans and they're taking attention away from beautiful brendan brazier sure. And then. now they're like no no no no the ugliest people on earth and scott walker biggest dif- though by the end of that like a not by the end you know sorta like halfway through that first movie. Those americans are getting executed. Left and right for various reasons was only ideas. Like oh they're the ones in. This happens to these guys. Which is they're the ones that give like. He takes his skin from one guy's bones from another right fucking to reconstitute. That happens in one scene and it's barely anything. It happens to scott document. This is so weird because it's like we're establishing that they're bad and evil because they're like looking at the pottery and they're just a bunch of ancient rubbish isn't it and Meanwhile brendan fraser our hero as like trying to get through a doorway. And he's like no no. We're gonna do it my way where we take a giant crowbar and smashed. This priceless all written out door or wall or whatever it is to to to ribbons. We're gonna destroy part of this temple. Gotta smash senate. And that's the good guy and the bad guy is like appraising of as and saying it's not good because his wife had visionary you know what i mean if your wife has a vision. You're allowed to desecrate whatever you want. And so is that i guess i kind of miss. That line is division. The reason why there at this time yes. That's my understanding of it. So they get the thing. Meanwhile this other guy's going to kill them and little little little. Alex hit the with. Take your bart simpson shit and get right. The fuck out of your slingshots mommy movie. I don't think so to get close to the nineteen thirties. It's total dennis amenable. Yeah yes big time. It'd be a fucking walter. Matthau sure does good robbers. Walter matthau is the mummy would be amazed. I'm going to command the duck une dead army of renew. Don't call me m who tableau call me stan. Go by stan this. Dan the mummy mummy do anybody here of a miller lite out. And maybe a roast beef sandwich. Would anyone like to drink. Miller lights eater roast beef sandwich and go fishing. Mummy got some potato chips. There could take some of them and mayo my ancient bride and margaret mummy hooters. Who wants to watch a boring college. Football game unscrambled tube jello vision. Yeah it's like. Oh my god. There's a woman that looks like add bargain. I'm gonna go resurrect and martha soul to put it in her on the goddamn scorpion king. Greg test god look at my stupid cartoon face at the end of this movie. Go ahead baby do bye-bye birdie but yeah there's some shenanigans there. I will say this movie's credit. This kid is threatened with murder like three to five times. I want this kid to do it. They should be on that list. That up dude. You got a you got atta bc from in this movie. And he's definitely do like i cannot wait. Kill you multiple times there was. There's there should be scenes where he goes up to the the evil curators. I guess whatever with this. And like i will give up all the money if i can kill this fucking. There's richest beyond. I know power unmentionable but i have to kill fucking i buy it barely escape and the kids about to get ganked. But also the tomb starts to crumbles the guy's away we got. Yeah the the old self-destructing tomb gag or again. We also have a ref to the first movie because like all these shenanigans going on. It's like oh someone who the written on a wall or something says like he who opens this box will drink from the nile. And it's like oh what does that mean in a wall explodes shares flooding going on we reference first movie where rachel vice knocks down all the bookshelves. A library embarrassing because the shit eating kid i do. I mean that yet. we're in sequel town man. That's what's happening sucks. And it's one of those things where like rachel vice and Brendan fraser are like about to drown and face. And then oh thank god. They had that kid because you breaks the law down and saves them an accident and he does loop sewri. Didn't mean to to that moment day. Oh pardon me. did i. Wreck device did our take stakes right out of this movie. Oops i saw. It's so confusing because he calls the mummy mummy and he causes mommy. Mommy very confusing stuff. Yeah didn't know what was what we cut to the other bad guys. Yeah this curator which only find out that. He's curator later in the movie. The child is the one that recognizes him by question though. Here's here's the question. I think i agree with you. Is this guy who's like he's mr somebody this movie major player. Of course. there's a white english actor playing. Juliet dude is this supposed to be wheezing juice guy. And he's recast. No film weasel gist guy works at the museum. I kinda think you're right. Oh that's interesting because because that's the weird part is like if not then i need to see this guy museum generating twist that he's evil. You don't see the turn your post turn. You begin after the turn. You're telling me about the term. Are you looking at the character dance. I want to look it up. It's going to kill me. I have to see. If this is eric varas character recast because if so if you recast our beloved as in the jewish guy you can go straight to hell definitely fucking. But they're out. In the desert. With marta from arrested development believe only existed in the last movie in flashback. And though in this movie correct an again like i hadn't seen that movie in a year and i still like oh martyrs in this that i remembered she was the one from the i. I remembered her being that. But i was gonna lost as well. Yeah so i get. What's really weird all is like let's say you know you're dislike. I dunno a woman in your twenties in nineteen thirty three. And you're just like. Oh yeah i guess i kind of look like that ancient broad yes sure shoves solan me gillet of me. Yes roy me confirmed not the same characters weasel juice guy although idly reason the guys credited as dr terence bay b. e. y. And of course the great. Oh dead fair. Who's in both of these movies. Sure is our death bay. B. a. y. Interests don't know what's going on there but yeah it's alright so at least erica. Very was not recast. Surprisingly speed look at castle is again. And he's like a buddy of steven summers and whatnot. Surprise to nazi kevin j o'connor floating around in this movie. He probably just past because they they brought everybody back for this one. Yeah but again. You're kevin j o'connor you pass it on movies. Pesident chance to be the memory diner. I wonder know he's left in goes slack. Yeah you assume by the scarabs. You hear him scream. But i'm just saying like you could recast them as whoever the fuck or even just like. Oh now i'm skeleton guyana. Do i love skeleton guys. They're all unskilled this movie. There should be more but yep and they're not good skeletons. I gotta say love d. Plus at best skeletons. I was thinking about bill like mummies like this. Mummy army kind of like decent cousins to the the skeleton league. That's for sure. I'm not doesn't cry for the mummy army that just like us but a little code here in a minute right now all wrapped up and they actually when they are kinda slow. They don't talk much. We should actually be doing most of the talking on this one and tuber were hey Set up just skill. That i will be in the rear with jere. Do you know ship out. Sasaki obama kill need to take that shit some of my baby. Wipe your pill all right. We're done with that. We've make agent with the frankenstein now. Ready for reading by the way you want to start your dumb fucking dark universe. You get brendan fraser on the horn. Yeah rick o'connell common to fight the fuck and frankenstein. I'm here's one absolutely. That's the way it should have gone. You can say whatever you want about these movies and we're making fun of him. Whatever brendan fraser fucking. Kills it in these. He's bringing it one hundred ten percent got the juice juice so they get out of that one they get this box. That has a bracelet in it. Which by the way this bracelet. I think it's a different item but it's sitting in hard rock cafe somewhere or a planet hollywood rather notes. Our animation damnation of the horrible cartoon features. A lot in it do do. I do not remember a fucking lick from that cartoon. Ready for it on our patriotic will be talking about the cartoon based on this when we didn't watch this i so we have no idea what's happening in the cartoon should be very interesting listening. They get back to their palatial estate. Because i think at the end of that first they become rich. I think that's what you're supposed to believe. This was a question the exterior this place was this ever used as a main wayne manor at any point but apparently is in the omen. Yes that i read. This is like pig shit luxury. It's disgusting and it's decadent as look robbed robbed egypt of its national treasures. And now they're live in in that pig. Shit luxury disgust. That's all true but when you murder an actual monster van helsing doesn't have to be the most biggest piece of shit ever. He killed dracula. Yep go ahead and you talk to him about that. And i still hate him over that. That's right it's been abraham van helsing nive dracula now to show for all these fat stat. Gordon toilet don't you know i'm fucking models left and right. That's right every night. There's a new piece of piece of acid by explorer abraham and healthy. You know those that special cocaine. They only give two billion as i haven't my ready and by fat stacks one hundred dollars that will last for lifetime. I have all these states. They cost me ten dollars on expensive. Royalty but i do think yeah. You're supposed to believe that i. I don't know if they were like awarded a certain financial prize due to slaying. The mummy or whatever. But i think it's like something came out of that. We're rich raven outrageous grave robin. It is absolutely all right and this is what they dropped this. This don't even see them. Enter with Rick and evi. Yes and they'll look what's fucking due to tongue kiss that kids that ugly kids. Okay right. yeah he's okay. Do you remember to feed it today. So i forgot if he felt it the hamster he The thing about the kid and this is not a knock against the adult them. I'm going to compare him to but this kid also suffers from a thing that many children have an affliction with Adult face He's got an adult face and in this case the adult face looks exactly like andy richter. Yeah little bit so like it. Looks like a deep fake of like someone did the my returns. This kid's face got swapped out with andy richter's now gets what i wanna see. Yup let's get some deep fakes gandhi's face on that kid. I wanna see countered o'brien with this little kid. Fighting the mummy says oh well me moment dad. It could be another baby actually. She caught it tied up for something because they keep saying they could be a baby one. They've got one. I guess their kids out there. That are like that though like i need. You need to up these numbers. I need more of me that's disgusting. That's you tell that could shut up just fucking around and he gets this bracelet stuck on his arm and the band does the egos. It's an oculus has shoot i. This is straight up. Got a video projector. Like there's no other way to describe it because the special effects just make it look like an actual digital projection. Which what are we even doing. Maybe it glows and his eyes glow. It's magic and you don't project it you to see it in the minds. yes or he knows. Oh i know where to go blah blah blah. It's just like man this movie fellas. If you ever needed a reason to get snapped. John hannah's just fucking in my house. Get out of your john hannah. That's a thing where i feel like the adventure that they were in cairo wrapped up. You know a few days before. They told john hannah would john. Hannah's been house sitting watering the plants. Fucking laying his see all over the property. Because he's he's got this woman back here and you know this is not the first encounter. He's had this house while they both way i i. I assume there's a room upstairs with all the dead. Prostitutes frowned upon. He's been here. Hey babe your brother take on our sheets again also a lot of blood in here. That's a fucking dr h h holmes. Murder house. I think he's killing again the joke because he's like his intro thing like eight. It's been like a half hour. And i am seen him and i'm like hey maybe does need to be in this one. I wasn't holding my breath for john. Hannah's areas someone in the audience. Clapping maybe that little kid is like oh my god mommy fan john hannah libya elizabeth hanna his older sister his things like oh last time when i beat the mummy by myself whatever agar a stor cowardice funnier. Yeah he's john. Why did i find a severed wrist under my pillow. Just the wrist. I don't know how it's a choke risk. I must have beaten all funny But like and then the league. Because here's the thing though. He's he's running around boasting about leg. I defeated the mummy. And whatever it did make me think is this like is the adventure of the first movie like known publicly like was hitting the peppers in london. Mum's the word cheese on this one well england covered in sand at some point like so. Hey what the fuck happened there. Is that the first movie i forget. Some disobeyed did you watch the first. And that's why i was confused. I don't think that happens. We'll do something happened. In england or no or i guess they're all in egypt. Well they're in london for a fashion because like that's how you're introduced to to even jonathan. God she's working at the museum and whatnot and then she takes off to find brennan fraser. Who's like in a prison. Sure for some reason. I don't remember that. Yeah i would though. I had the fucking pipe wrapped around my finger dom all for that but now there's a siege on rick o'connell's castle here pretty pretty decent action scene. I will say i do love that. People are able to get into the house and walk around for a while. The someone's like who are you. Why are you here. I mean there's like half chasing nuts you know you're not locking all those doors. You really should be you. Should at the bathrooms make sure the bathrooms we keep on that shit. I know electricity new and all. Oh and if you have electricity throughout your house. I mean you're already spending money there Yeah but so. This is mr hall. Says is this dude. Yes and he's running with his guys here and their whole thing is they are trying to resurrect imhotep. These are the dude. Still the the What's the word of looking for here. The disciples imhotep. Emotion has already been sort of resurrected in the previous scene. They in the desert found is a hell. The scarabs eat. All those dudes scarab kill totally. I wish like we could get a little more violent with this. Really see some. Do we get the. Cgi looks pretty bad when they're supposed to be in the body in their pop and through the skin kind of yet it's not great pukes out which is kind of one is pretty. That was clearly a note from the first one when they had exit audience surveys. We love the scarab. Say yes desert. Fantastic also that. Marta more of her. Marta from fucking arrest development. We just want dab student. The bucket divorced dad contingent. We would like more of her please. Yeah one guy was like an agency gifted cat fight like you know it sir. Absolutely we were looking for ideas. I got to tell you that scene that works. that's just out of nowhere. Just great filmmaking. Hey man i know what. I'm signing on one. Signed on to watch the mummy returns. We also though You know in. In tall with this mr hafez is a outta whale. Aki a. j. i know richard. I wanted to try one. He's playing locked. Nah florida. he's he's the heavy. I i love when he pops up and stuff. These fucking great. He was great obviously on is. He's one long this. Oh he quit is to do this. That's what that's how he's like. All right albie now. Maybe a mistake or no. Well i mean then. He eventually made his way to lost when she was on for several seasons and he just the one season he does he killer croc yes was right. Yeah yeah we'll we'll we'll they raid the house looking for this rick because you need the fucking bracelet has to be involved gonna thought you'd i mean it gets so money here. Yeah about because they kidnap they kidnap. Ev i yes and she gets taken away kidnapped out of out of this fight scene. He's kidnapped then they've then that's right the resurrecting the mummy in some other chamber here and they're going to burn her alive which is kind of fun. I like that. And it's kind of great because for only because they want to be like. Oh nice like some entertainment. Got nothing to do with the resurrection spell or curses. They're trying to do whatever it's like. He already tapped like we kinda thought you'd like to see her be mercer yeah and he recognizes her from the first movie and as you defeated me the last time husband. I want his ass. Yeah exactly that doesn't happen but shouldn't we should say bay shows up here to definitely does and he's fun kind of his thing. I fully expected to be a thing where it's like. Oh we had this first adventure together when he comes back into this movie. you know. it's like. Oh my god thank you hear. Art at the bay. Brendan fraser. Treat this dude like garbage doing here again. And then artists bay is like. Hello my friend. And i'm like see you're thinking the way i was fun. I think what brendan fraser's doing. Here is my reaction this even though i like him. i'm dislike. what are you doing here The movies getting overloaded. This i i would agree with that. But like i think the bigger thing is a is a piece of ass and if you have him around rachel vice is not looking at your dirty stinking. Made her get pregnant with this piece of shit child. You've got running around. He's a beautiful fucking man. Who might sweep you up is a reminder of my mistake when i look at my son i feel like brennan fraser. Pre two thousand five never was like. Oh is that guy better looking than me. I don't think that's something that he had to just one of those scituate here. The actual gigolo in deuce bigalow. He's got all those fish. Yes and that tank. Shit that the dumbest trivia i've ever seen was do you know the actor whatever. The actress name is dead. Fair fair odin for doesn't have face tattoos for the movie. Like what am i fucking stupid like. No did you know that. In the place beyond the blinds ryan. Gosling didn't get all those tattoos on his body. That was just checkup. Jared does joker surprised. And ed norton doesn't have a giant swastika. Chess watt ultra. Here for seven with. Petra wasn't bed. those prosthetic honey honey. That wasn't actually her head. She's get interview with david venture like you know. I tried to get her to get her head cut off and that's just wouldn't go for it. They're just not as committed as others. I don't know what to tell you. I said gwen need your head in this box. Babe don't you have a kid already. It's fine your legacy yield baby fucking faced to obviously. That's until like it would be such a thankless job and so tedious. But like if you paid someone i don't know a hundred thousand dollars a year to sit on. Imdb and you had like permanently like in edit mode and you can just go through these things and just go through movies and just be like nope. That's not trivia. Nope that's not as we go to biden. Listen we aided imdb back. It's a public good. It's it's it's a public nationalize the imdb. And now you're now you have all these government. Employees checks cut benefits. Are god come on man i. I'm looking through this. Imdb you got all these knuckleheads on here talking about things do you guys even know what the word trivia means man does america. We know about trivial shit. You know we love. We love motion picture here so much. Because they remind us of movies Oh yeah yeah. I'll look at the movie that i saw as a kid. That a great train. Ron first weekend. It came out all balder day. Come up have burlap sack of heart. Gandhi's great train robbery. Yeah yeah new. You know. I'm a i'm a vegetable president. Yoke apart couch potato. I love. I love the movies where cream i needed him. My mouth right now. I need to eat ice cream. I'm looking at the trivia for one of my favorite movies. The mummy returns man. I'm looking at that. Of course those face tattoos or faith. Come on knucklehead. Did you notice real real hard operates a tv. I got my wife. Dr jill to operate the tv got put on the ice cream man. I love clint howard. He's one of america's greatest. I don't have to congratulate brandon. Frazier and rachel wasser. Beautiful hilarion child. There must have fucked right after the beautiful look at the face on that it looks exactly like ultimate sidekick andy richter man use. Gather my family around to watch the opening assault on precinct. Thirteen say look. That's what happens if you don't order ice cream scream. what it's just. Of course the face tattooed. Johnny come on son so they. All lay siege by the way john. Hannah and the kid or like waiting outside and like you know they're having funny business and then something happens where the car breaks and they have to get a double decker bus. This is insane. So this is we've cut to. We're at the british museum right as the kit. Ev gets kidnapped from the house. The kid is like oh i source so and so it's the guy from the museum later. They all fucking high tail it. Yes so we get to the museum. It like in the storage warehouse of this museum. This big sacrifices about to happen which is great. I guess there's no fucking nighttime security at the him. Whatever you see the funny happen here. It smells like burning flash. Doesn't it a little bit burning flesh and gunpowder what what happened. I heard like a lot of clanging. He's that's normal. Though right we always hear clanging museums. Clang crashes glass breaking. that's normal. Burn a woman in the gift shop. It's just an old bernie clingy house but yes this is all going down and like fraser and artist bay are like they have like eagle eye view of what's going on here. You're right steve out in the car. It's gotta suck for john. Hannah because it's like all right dude like as an actor. Now you're just sidled with this little kid like de little kid or one in this movie. Totally like inseparable muslim c. Three po in this movie like full-on yes. Big time kid is kind of an are too. Because he's just like same shit. You don't understand these high-pitched frequencies and then knock it into shit. Although i mean i would see being paradis kid. That's that is a bad omen for john. You're being in competition for which one of you is going to be in the third one. Also having a kid now means that you can be killed off in an emotional moment totally shocked that it happened in this like fucking trigonis cast down a little bit. I actually had a false memory. Artists bathing shit at the end of this third one possible. I've never seen it could be. I do know that in the third movie. They jump so far in the future. The kid is actually an adult. Really and Revised didn't want to do it. So they just recast. Ev with maria. Bello castor beans. There is mummy tomb of dragon emperor. In where you can see. Maria bello attempt in english accent athletic maria. Bello bet makes more sense for this kid's haircut admiral. This more makes more sense. It doesn't make sense for hers. Supposedly playing half but but she's like a dye job. Come on bella mostly blonde actress. Yeah i just the two thousand could be a The thing with the vans. Steve is like they realize like something's amiss. And like we gotta get ready to get here get spooked or something. I remembered is but john. Hannah tries to turn over the car engine and breaks the fucking key off route. It you and you know i mean. There's a lot happening in the movie. And some of the action pacing is pretty good. I think it just starts to overload. 'cause guy just doesn't stop then once once this is over and they save a and they're in this Big old double decker fight for fucking twenty minutes of fighting these skeleton of the mummies off the building. Like it's an arcade games dude. Why are they able to run on walls. Like this like fucking creatures of the night. Like i don't understand that like i get that sequels have to be bigger in some respects but like these things running on the wall like spiderman tapscott fucking force powers like. It's magic right. Because it's like i feel that gives them so much leeway it's like supernatural but there's magic in the first movie and they're not doing any of that while they're doing the the the sandstorms in his face and shit. He does his face. There's this to yes. He loves putting his face on a signature of the mummy. Who's after you is that dracula. That's clearly the mummy's face in the tidal wave there. It's the mummy. Thank god he identified himself. Yeah i mean the dumb shit never stops i. One thing that really hit me was when you see this vision. His little bracelet they had this vision and then at the end of it. There's a secret city of columns and that you have to find to get there. You can get there by train. It turns out the secret city that they're all trying to find. You could literally a seven feet from the train. But they don't know where it is and the the whole thing is the risk. The bracelet thing is only telling them like to a point where to go to the until you get to the next checkpoint that you know what i mean like. Yeah that's the middle of this movie is them going to inconsequential places. And the principal. Another castle mario as. It's always like this dumb like leaving breadcrumbs thing where like the kid is making sand castles of where they're going next by like creating you know. A a sand replica of a monument or a you know yeah structure whatever kind. Yeah so bore it. The after this big bus. Jas which i agree. I think the the siege of the house is fun. The little whatever. The fight in the museum's fun skelter chases kind of fun after that once. Everyone's on there like you know around the world in eighty days kick can super fucking boring except totally when marta for mercy development goes up to the kid and she's like you better behave or puts snakes in your bed and this kid is paying for it for the rest of. That's how that works the wires. What the other way. And then the end of it. Yeah oh my god. Now i need a snake in my bed before he can shoot catch. You say that again. Funniest thing about. they're horning. This like they should take this as a sign. Like after the bus fiasco. Yes a lot on the line. Obviously we almost meet our maker right. They calmed down and like they are tongue kissing his fucking buzz. Exactly a little from watching my parents tongue chatter. Because they're so concentrated on tongue each other's mouths the kid gets kid briton. Virtue birds one stone. Yup i got a kid from then on. They keep acting like all right. We'll just get him back. While i'm first of all he's going to be forever changed a what is happening to that capsule. You might not want it back. This remains refrigerator. If you're lucky their whole thing to artist bay is like. Don't worry my friends. They won't kill him because he's got that bracelet on but they will thoroughly use him in every he's going to be a used kleenex. The timetable here is from that moment. The kid put the bracelet on. They have seven days until the scorpion king is resurrected and their whole thing is the bad guys. Want to get the bracelet and give it to imhotep because that imhotep will be able to defeat the scorpion king and take the army that the scorpion land or the world. My friend wars. The very next step will be the world. Though after he beats the army then he perch real estate to really tip the market that way value inflation will go up and then something something you call eric prints and you get it all settled definitely. I want to go back to the you said eric. Marta character as dislike reincarnated. Whatever makes no sense. Like why would she get it. A conscious human being be like what i would love is my consciousness to be replaced by someone. Seven thousand years old. See and that's what's what's crazy is part of that is aref back to those older universal movie. Sure that's in that in the first mummy movie it's like a i don't remember the actresses name but she is the actress who played. Yeah you know the mummies lover back in the day and that's like you know the mummies allow me mommy lover dude. It's like say look at that. Oh you look like my old girlfriend but you're right in this movie it's weird 'cause like she's just a person who is you know is i guess told at some point that she's the reincarnation woman why not just be like an good enough though right. Mums let's continue this. Do we really need that. Fuddy-duddy because she's like at one point going by one name but then they start calling her knock suna moon again. Yes and she's just like fine with it or i want to see this. I wanna see the seed of the first museum. Curators being not crooked to twist there and i wanna see where like. She's just a normal woman but oh is possessed by the spirit of something. That's you know mummy transfer of some kind. I need something there. Because it doesn't they should set it up in somewhere. She shows up. And i have no idea who this woman is. What it takes me like fifteen minutes at imdb remember l. She it makes you feel like you missed a mummy movie in the middle. Exactly mummy in the middle. If you you know like there's just there's something out there like it should be thing where like she was just like a teacher or a nurse or something and like the museum guy kidnaps her yada yada a good thing about having a mummy in the middle. Is all that the wrapping that caused. You know that you know the mama for mommy material. Yeah the wrappings. Yes soaks up all the juices from the two other lover. So you get the mummy in the middle sprain your spritzing. You're having a great time. You're spits getting everywhere and the mummy set up and then when you're done you take that mummy come rag and you've fucked drain out in the in in the shower. Sure you know you ring it out your big strong hands and you'd get all the juices out all the juice juice then you hang the mummy inside dr steve. This budget take the train home. Your monster sex. Understand that. But i'm asking is mummy in the middle. Does this include frankie muniz hanging out in their if they were pyramids in arizona where he's trying to be a nascar driver or whatever it is up to ask the middle should've been a jayme. Kiss america's a dracula. Cranston is a frankenstein. Then frankie muniz the little mummy. And now it's like the munsters but also dumber but much much. Yeah boss Yeah that was. The themes is what greg theme song. I think i never watched the show. Those funny joke. I watched it for a while. I i guarantee you. It's exactly of its time. Yes yes you know one of those programs there but whatever so like they're they're just going to fucking town the town. Meanwhile brendan fraser's like i've got an idea. Let's get it another fucking character in this movie dude. This character is iw. Which like it's a thing. This dude is an old friend of rick. O'connell's apparently over the job and merrick cash. Absolutely that's what we're doing that one time in nicaragua or whatever the fox and he is dude who is a pilot. Brennan fraser's like we need you to get us who i believe you're going to karnak fan of the guys like cool. I got just the thing. This dirge -able that again looks like something right out of donkey kong country this device. It's an airship dude. We are in final fantasy seven ladies and gentlemen it is. It's it's your steam punk months. It's truly unbelievable. And it's kind of funny because rick o'connell is sort of like speaking for the audience is like what do you mean that pays the shit we have to have the rest of the movie the peace ship out and they just go and like he's funny. I guess shot the bomb right. Yeah butch it was it was rick's fault for some reason. Then i met the president. Oh man rick o'connell shot you in the ass. That's a big fucking deal right on your. But i've had that happen to me to our jails always bought my but you know what i mean. Who tae and ice cream. Don't i was nice cream. Ano- got shot right in the but by spilled the soft serve right on the ground but thankfully he gave me on softer of dough. That's nice americans. Do we look out when one american spills ice cream. Another american ice cream provider gives it to him. I ruined your black panther party by refunding. The police i'm sorry. Meanwhile the baddies are all of the train. And this is where arnold vosloo like has not sucked enough souls yet so got this doctor. Doom mask john come on totally doctor. Doom i wrote that down to. It's so ridiculous but at the same time looks kinda cool kind of better than the cgi glib nonsense they give that fuckers. Ace master up. I'm totally with you. This this scene also contains the absolute most obnoxious line. This kid has this entire fucking movie. That san something. Oh big time buddy but like his lucknow's fucking roughing up right here in charlotte and this is after martin like fucking says that line of snakes near badin whatever and like all right. Let's get out of here. And he goes high. Watch the suit faulk. You follow the doctor doom threat. I wish i saw this kid on fire dude in the bathroom. Is it all right. And you know he goes in there with him. And it's like i can't go. You want to fuck bed. You've been kidnap yup totally like. I can't believe lucknow. Acquiesce is like all right fine. I'll close the door by the way he was a little bit. Like you know what. I'm gonna bathroom with a kid. I know i don't want anyone being like what did you not believe. Being zona believes thirty thirty-three he could marry that little bit of everything was fine. It was like i think it was like what the consent stuff changed in. One thousand nine hundred eighty because there are too many weird songs that rock-n-rollers were putting out like rock and roll. Remember remember america over rock and roll music. Used to be about a pet of chuck berry's tune like sweet sixteen or something. There's so many saws haven't and the chuck bearish song Take pictures of your pitch in true. American hero toilet cams. That's americans about toilet cams mashed ashanti. Could you could you play that that toil a camera song for the inauguration. Oh you've been dead for years you have a son. Could he tall it. Yes speak of toilet cameras though. Gotta say well done on the production team here. Because i was throwing up at the site his bathroom. There are handprints of janet all over the walls and if the trivia is to be believed those shitty handprints director steven summer. Shitty fingerprints are all over this. But yeah the kid realizes he can fucking slink out the turret there lashes himself. You watch trade spotty. But it doesn't matter does he. He's any accidentally right where they're supposed to be anyway right. There's a lot of convenient moments. Meanwhile scott occupant meets untimely demise. I just found in my notes. A scott occupants character. I know is named spivey because one of the most unintentionally hilarious moments of this movie is when the other roughneck guy of looks like bob hoskins. He does just in slow motion soon as this dudes getting seoul okay. Great it's fucking hilarious. And meanwhile yeah. He's arnold vessels doing a little vertigo with her. No you must look more like Hair is this where he's like. Pump enter full of flashbacks. Yes and like we for too long period of time are just seeing the opening of the first movie. Yes because it's all the shit about how imhotep and anoxia moon were like secretly fucking and she was screwing around on the faroe. and what does the pharaoh. It's just that's just the the prologue of the first failed. King pharaoh huey lewis by the way this dude looks exactly like you. I was thinking he also kind of looks like anthony bourdain or like a meteor faced. Dude yeah but i can also see huey lewis. And it's kinda great for the fucking the rachel vice. Yeah yeah yeah. The election never teeny catfight. That happens here. They got the dude back for additional footage. Good for him. I mean this scene takes for ever and it's but it's interesting that we see like. Oh okay. this was happening in the flashbacks of the first movie. A little bit was like it matches up a little bit because when yeah because the way they sort of make ross is rachel vice watches on as imhotep murders the back to the future. Part two yes. She's looking out principle. Strickland's office window guy stole the mummies pharaohs wall. That would have been stopped. I think he took his golden wallet. I mean you could use the same huey lewis took back in egypt. Go back agent egypt firs somewhere. It's hip to worship cats. Dan it sports is just sports. Oh biff a killing. At the coliseum betting on warriors always got the sports almanac every warrior battle next two thousand years. Alright kid fifty bucks says the end of this match. Those two tigers eight the shit out of that guy. what are you talking about. Obama got him cornered. Oh yeah well. I also met. They crucify this fellow turn. He turns up a radio. That doesn't exist grandma. Go to the stoning opio. When i get home beats yeah grandma. Listen to me and knock su-nam moon someday you're gonna be my wife just so stupid. It's dumb one dude But yes that scene does. Nothing i guess at the end of this flashback and i think also rachel vices. Seeing the flashback as well yes which i this this pharaohs like you know what i would love to see my sexy daughter and my new wife go added up fight. She's fighting her future step. Mom dude definitely. Yeah i think back in the day they might have been into the yeah. It's been really in there but yeah But racial vices seeing the same thing at the end of this march from arrested element becomes excessive or whatever. The name is a knock shuna moon. Anoc suna moon. There's also somewhere around here is A dead fares character. Death bay is like as you'll recall from the first movie ladies and gentlemen. Obviously he's part of the organization known as the mad gye descendants of the pharaohs bodyguards. Yada yada elevating. Oh i guess last adventure. i didn't see that birthmark. You have really prominently on your arm now. That means your image. Yep that's and that's the whole like. They stamped me at the orphanage thing. he's like. Oh by the way like to fight the army of numerous. Which are these. Scooby doo dog. Soldiers will get a moment He's like we're going to need more help. I'm going to have to go. Contact the leaders of the twelve magic armies for like backup in the senate chris. Yes it's a total throwaway thing that only matters at the very end of the movie when all of these dudes role to fight these dogs aldridge. They're gonna show up. You don't have to tell me how they called them. Jesus chatty artists bay like pull out a ruby. And it's like it's glowing. I've signaled them within ago. Stupid magic yeah. Like ghana sackler. I like we you know we need to have that tension of will the bird make it. Be shot out of the sky gets assassinated. Pretty cool horror. I remember where. I was down the national mall. Force the bird of some sort some late breaking videotape. You're the abraham zapruder bird was going to say the the Trying to think of a word for bird you know parak- is apparently. That's what it was you fucker. You guys kept talking and ruined me. Keep film came back this up. Ladies and gentlemen pretend. This didn't happen here. We go. Parakeet film came as we are now watching. The procession of lee harvey ostrich be taken from the county. Jack rashad him out dude. No it's jack booby. That's a bird footed did oh man lee harvey ostriches adorable. That big about Johnson bird him that birds being sworn. That's true yeah. Did someone screaming in their car. Really hard and parakeet was originally parakeet. Eric right whatever. Bob this is i mean again like so much of the middle of this movie. Is them going to locations and not finding him but he leaves a clue every time and wind chino at the last one Locked da finds out the clue. Yes mashes it and he realizes that That his parents are right on their heels. And this is when arnold vosloo gets off his fat duff. Does some magic the fucker by doing here dude. And this is like an hour and twenty minutes fucking. Make your face at something. They are parked on the bank of a river here. And that's what this kids. Trying to. Make the little sandcastle. For get snuffed out an arnold vosloo to make it so that this is where he causes the big tidal wave out of the river right and so to start this off when you see like how those rivers supposedly full it. Cgi water really badly. So that like he doesn't believe he pushed all his water out of the river. And then when the tidal wave goes away and the back to arnold vosloo. it's not in effect. Shot standing in much much much shallower yes piece of water. And you're just like fuck. That was the worst siege. I've ever seen in my life. Absolute again a mistreated fucking blimp is trained out fly and this guy flying this thing. That's izzy dude. He's dom hereto. Because he's got fucking rocket canisters on this gnaws dude dom as donkey dick this whole thing and they wind up crashing in the secret oasis. They're trying to get to anyway. Right right the next movement is the pygmy monsters because i guess possibly In between this and the last one steven summers watched trilogy of terror. Maybe let me just do that one hundred times. That's kind of fun can black then. Yeah totally shoe still around dude. Why not was terror with that little thing it right. I think so. Look one interesting thing about this. Since that they find is like oh my god. All the legions throughout time have tried to come here on concrete. Look those were romans insurance. Napoleon's men and wait. What is it. Nineteen thirty three okay. Hitler's guys should be here any minute. Yeah you're right. This is about black magical. Yeah they'll be here. Maybe now they might actually be already got some scientists. Come down here to take some notes. Now that's this is. That's georgia's watching one fucking see shows up at this movie. David cease-and-desist lucasfilm. Ltd actually owns the swastika. They asked for it was a price. I'll tell you they actually wanted quite a lot but we got it. Oh yeah. I'll lease ya this swastika you're gonna pay out the no made so much off a holocaust dramas it's crazy. I mean i guess. I can give you for cheap mel gibson but a needed for l. k. Wanna show somebody something differently afternoon. Only man i'm not doing like in perpetuity. That's why schindler's list opens with lucasville ltd and it has the thx. Oh man yeah this whole sequence there getting chased by these little guy guys been. I don't know who i'm allowed to say. Pick me anymore. They see the movie. And i don't think it's right. I think this is really weird. It's in general like their little cartoon monsters. What was wrong with scarabs. Yeah i like the scarabs watch people try to outrun a wave of bugs left and right away bits baby. You're talking bags layer. You don't even have to go that far give me some quicksand couple swallowed up by ernest. Happiest hell i gotta tell you and i don't know maybe just had to light of a dinner last night and i was watching this movie white. This is seen where a couple of motherfuckers falls in quicksand. And i was like alex delicious jelly. I was getting hungry. It's amazing i mean it's just so it takes so long for them to like it because this is the big effect shot. One of the big of excellence. You're supposed to be like wow secrets in the mummy returns. Holy shit well. I would have. I might it. Might have in the theory. Because i did see this in theaters. I might have done that. I might have seen them like. Oh my god except for my dad. After he saw the face wave yet me out of the theater like every. I've never seen my dad do this ever. But he was like he like came like literally the easier characters starts doing the banking off of the different sides. Because he's like we're gonna leave point out. You were a senior in high school. And i still my dad. I'm studying ask love the notion of like you're eighteen years old. Your father pulled you out of where you should you. Should you should have socked on the gut. Oh yeah stood up to your father over me. Returns definitely the place that stan this piece movie i hated anyway I pulled you out. Now he's just like i. Do you want to stay here. And now it's like no he's like okay. Let's go did you go see something else to just go straight home. Was this the same. Was this around the same time. Moulin rouge came out. Because i think we might have jumped into that eight with this movie. Came april two thousand one. So that's entirely possible someone. Can you won't on rouge. Because i remember sir. We did try something else but it might have been spent something just as bad and i forgot it to and it was two thousand one. Let me see if you're released eight here. Yeah i know it's imdb fucking suction. This was definitely i. Two thousand one. Okay so they must. I saw late now. It would have been that late youth now. You know. I was just saying no. Do you think that those little monster characters will called the monster characters. Those were unlike burger. King cups is it a question because the movie clearly has no problem with what it's doing and it's like it is problematic like i don't know just how far they were willing to go with this whether or not they run collectors cops just because it feels like they're like there the new villain thing it's really push it. You know movies really pushing something on you. By the way the mummy returns was may fourth. Oh excuse me thousand one okay. So june first two thousand depending on. This is a big summer movie blockbuster. Feeling movies hung out in the theaters. Longer yeah i was definitely not in a rush. I didn't like the first mummy. I wasn't like let's go got it got it Also expected to be a thing right. Where like one of those little guys like does way in a suitcase back at their house at the end of the movie. Yeah now he's just kind of living with them reserves. It's of like when duck tales took that caveman. Yeah that's stupid caveman cave. Duck that forehead that for it is really god. Sucks shit but yeah. The funny thing is distinct. Oddly violent somebody gets decapitated right. We're maybe like an implied they are murdering the fuck out of the elon damning. All these bad guys like these dudes are getting fucked ganged by the lost world. Like they're getting pulled under dosed is. It's even the how man i had that. No the high grass from loss world where the raptors are going after them. That's what happens here is. We're just walking through the jungle. Yeah so are the pygmy superstrong or is this like a an arms worth of the zombies pulling the monday a little bit of both man. Yeah yeah using like collective strenuous aunts. Are they superman. Or they're a bunch of tiny supermen. Oh that's that's way more terrifying. At least i don't know and Whatever they're all running around When lock beats he's he's like he's begging Oded fair to kill this kid. He's like now you may kill. The kid is oh. Yeah yeah yeah you. You may proceed with executing his china fair fights. Yes there's a death could you all look away. This is a really special bobby. Really fucking weird with is gonna kill this kid. He's been condescending to me. Four three days. How long do we do have. Just give me one hour. Full minute murder on this little gif coming up next on sixty minutes murder but this is also around the. This is the chili quicksand. Like the running away from these guys and then like a bunch of them following this quick sandwiches. Just fucking ridiculous. There is a funny thing where the leader of these guys. The crooked museum dude is running tells these two guys that are with him. He's like you gotta you gotta stop defend me. Give me some time for me to get escape Don't worry you'll be rewarded in heaven. Thank you awesome and like this is the part of the movie where he like. I've lost who's supposed to do what so he's going to do battle with the scorpion king with the of the lizard. People the reverse vampire there is something about because it's the seventh day. If the kid doesn't get to the temple of the seven day by the time the sun touches him he's going to disintegrate or something a bracelet we're like drain alive is so brendan fraser. Like literally out runs the rising sun to like. It's like an episode angel like jumping into the shadow getting tax returns in of badges. God coddle with his running to get past the fucking gate in time a rachel isis in the back. Like don't wear yourself out. That's okay take your time. There's plenty of time he's dead. I guess we could have sex. We want now we can make a new moon is off the top rope. I didn't even know where this woman wasn't. A scene just comes out and does this and just fucking murderers rachel vice-like out of nowhere to stabs. Her in gut gutted forgot. I mean i never saw this. But i knew that at least maria bello rachel is is not the next one and maria bello was. Oh do they just kill her. That's kinda cool. It have been something but like in the movie like i. I remember like this. When i actually watched it all the way through on home video like i was like of course. She's not dead yet. You're spending twenty minutes on this and of course she's not the babel for good biter but like at the same time the leader of these dudes mr museum guy their sticks his arm in the scorpion king statue and for whatever reason that like ignites the resurrection of the scorpion king. Who starts coming through hand to a skeleton. That's kinda fun that has that's pretty bad as little the little hand with like the little coupon and so still moving a little bit tales from the crypt joke. And i was all the way here for it. I'd have like more of that. Honestly is what this needs. Totally sa- she's dead and then this then Imhotep gets stripped of his power again. By the way. That's what happens to him at the end of the first hour as mortal is is a thing and he eats shit so out stripped of his powers again a which those powers include like. I mentioned before definite force throwing ability. He's tossing dudes all over this movie. I remember the fucking into a trailer. The kid floating up we got the black Sudan like darth vader suit and he just bring it up. Like drags him closer. Definite foreshadow happening. Excuse me licensed the swastika for you. I gotta say that's fucking force abilities man. That's outright lifting now matter you can have the swastika on sunday. That's fine but jon. Voight hasn't on saturday him. You deal with the hand off a lot of visitation rights. I'm juggling right. Now david duke. You guys team. I mean he's unofficial. Sort of a bitch is gonna go to court with me. I mean i don't think he really respects it like you guys do to be honest. He's throwing it on everything. But i mean whatever this is like the big massive like thirty minute and fight scene year imo taps got. He's battling with rick. O'connell outcomes fucking crab claws scorpion king. The just the rock given fucking giant golden armor or something. Let's do it. It's a fight right. Don't you want iraq to fight. Some money has to rustlers. Who's a professional fighter russell. It's insane and you know it also even or even find a way to do where the rock is the head look actually the head and then maybe like if you have to but i mean like look dress them up like vincent enough free cell great make it golds and he's just fucking fist fighting people. Let him get a rock bottom. And you don't wait 'til fast seven for that. Although i think there's a rock bottom in the sean william scott the rundown there definitely is yeah. Yeah because that fucking sucks. No fucking scorpion king's elbow no scorpion. King's rock-bottom come on the sting. Yes come on baby. I need a finishing move here. And this is just. And he's not he's not target is going Yes the faces barely moving except to do a couple of people's eyebrows. Definitely doing that sox man on it's this whole sequence. Sure if they paid the money. Get dwayne johnson to do their done. Any angry pig welker dude. It's sub welker and then meanwhile in total wrestling Fashion like or rick and imhotep could team up to get the scorpion king. God about tempest turn out. How rally they were paying t- carpet taken new scorpion gig order. Now call the. Mummy's mommy coming home tonight. By the bubbas. Dad know like literally walking around the dead guy's dead for hundreds of thousands of years as no one else totally mystified by this by god. It's mummy walking back out. He's dead and now he's trying to kill somebody else. Jesus by not. I am totally lost and who should be for this moment. How beauvais doesn't even make a damn sense. All back kids are crying. That chris cabinet is left at folks. Chris cabanillas i've got. I still ever gotten over that birds. Assassination but it's a very muddled fight. Meanwhile mourning the dead. Rachel vice and this is what we go dead alive. I'm going to bring my mom back from the dead absolutely should have been a soup seen after this if it ends that like that you did. I'm all about it so when she gets stuck in fucking lawnmower because that movie the fuck at temple opens up a monster rachel vice eating blood and whatever the fuck else does bring somebody back with the book of the dead. What came back kickback. Wrong obviously sure and like that's she's like not even surprised to be alive. You know like she makes some raff at the end of all. This was she's like. Oh hey brendan fraser. You wanna know what having looks like. He's like later when i'm fucking you know. Yeah the mysteries of the universe. I don't need anything about that. I just need to get a crack at that. It's like he's a character so dumb not necessarily actors but like they're so dumb like she's too dumb to know what mortality even is no just like. Oh wow i'm alive. Oh cook will oh now. Let me get cool sexy fight with this other ladies and sexy side fight. We're fucking ninja turtles. All over the moist or molina ing rafael versus molina. There it is. Watch that if man. I almost said it was a cool thing. It's not cool. It would be cool if this didn't look like dog shit. There is a moment in his movie. Where the scorpion king gets a hold of mr hafez there and fucking totally makes that dude explode yeah but it is you first of all. It's way far away because the farther away the more you can quote unquote like cover it up. This thing is like explodes into a bunch of polly gone. There's also like a couple of lines while this is happening. Where the where the guys like Imo tap help me and then they like cut to arnold vosloo five months later in a different location going. why totally. Yeah it just sucks shit man and like rick o'connell there's a super special spear that he has to you. Yeah i love that. He takes a bullet for typically here right. Yeah because it's like imhotep over the scorpion. Can you think of both of the scorpion king. Yes he hits the spear away from the scorpion king. Mo tapa tossed it. Which if he impales the scorpion king he would gain the powers of the army of the whatever. Oh yeah should be saying. The an uber saying scooby doo which is fine. But it's more like scrappy. Do at the end of that movie or big time. Those little little monsters are fighting. Oded fair and folks yes and like they they beat the first round like gay and then like oh no now. There's way too many of them and like you know what. I don't give a shit. I really know where the credits we didn't really mentioned it. But when Brennan frazier's fleeing from those little monsters. He throws a stick of dynamite onto a log and we see them fall. And it's it's terrible is what i'm getting sick ride in the log. Down to hal. We should exist. But then rick finally kills the scorpion king which gives him control over the army of the debt. I'd i'd take a spend a little. It's going on there. If i had that power the world would look quite different. I'll tell you that much. I think i think i would kill everyone on the planet just figuring. That was the end of blockbuster back harvey of the dentist acco almost everyone except for people who love video stores and the meek shall inherit come on dog soldier those new releases. They're totally that alphabetize. Come my acne scarred. Brothers time oh man yes he. He does slay the scorpion king. Right as he's about to like fall off a cliff jabs him. You know who's like this falling into this pit thing. And there's like people. on the periphery. Because it's the underworld would fall into because a new bes- is running the show the hell in spawn better. It really. does this look solar like the souls are like riding or whatever. They look jelly. A bunch of red vines or twizzlers. The best thing is so like you. Send the scorpion. King down into hell shirt. But then arnold vosloo has to like sacrifice himself to the realm at the very end. Because i think a marta dies. It's fucking hysterical. He's left for dead rick o'connell and imhotep her both hanging off the side of it This is after brendan fraser. Goes go to hell and take your friends with you. Didn't need that line now. But they're both hanging there and of course once again the fucking cave is collapsing. And there's what should fund the ceiling. Easy goes to run to save him and he's like no let me die. She makes the sacrifice runs up. Grabs brendan fraser. They get out of there and then imhotep holding onto the cliff. And he's like anoxia moon anoxia moon and she looks like nah he runs out. Hey baby to save. The right. Might be falling into hell here. This is after the soul has been replaced right so this is his. Actually you fuck that. The best thing is so. He sacrifices himself. He's like well. It doesn't matter anymore and you would think these demon things on the side are ripping apart. They're like passing them. Like ask you just see aro boss. Successor crowd surfing. All the world is a stage. Everybody got my bunk or mummies pit. Dude support a pick above the fall. You gotta do you see your brother. Go down to the help it you gotta pick them back up. And that's the way it work especially when you got ted nugent. Pain go then. Meanwhile marta for breast development dies from scorpions he trips and falls into a pit of The then she just gets eaten up which is like. I don't know you know it's fine. I think she should. She's gotten away. You know cut to her put in a hat on old friend for dinner. Blue absolutely wherever you open up. There's another ancient evil out there and maybe it's a lady this time. God forbid maybe that should be the villain. She should be something. I don't i feel like bringing back. The mummy again is kind of boring. It'd be rad. If she was the main villain and like the mummy was under her control. Or whatever she's she has very good screen presence yes and if she was just this like pseudo silent bill in the mood where it would be something. We'll also apparently believe this. If you will signed trivia joe biden has gotten involved yet but the The scorpion king affect wetlands about as finished eight days before the release of the film. But this is the first effect you because that's your whole movie essentially. Yeah he's get the main. And on that i exactly like and if it's not gonna look good you have to figure out a different way to film at what tests will also just be called the scorpion king. He doesn't have to be a literal score. Could have a tattoo of a scorpion. Fucking moron yeah. Hey dwayne you know what the animated thing. It was really shitty idea. Can you come back will pull you off your fucking traveling circus. Show that you're on still like come films. Some fight scenes league buddy will be done. Do maybe a pile driver here and there. I bald stuntman for not like this is easy peasy come on. It's more engaging than watching cartoon do nothing absolutely of the oasis now. Because this whole thing has happened in. The scorpion king's been murdered. The oasis starts socking itself into temple or whatever. It's like be put on a pair of jeans. One size fits all my aunts. All the vegetation dies vary. Then he's running to the top of this pyramid. I getting sucked into the bottom and thankfully the airships here says six blimp guide. Dude whatever your classes like. Oh you guys covered. What like shot off yup arben monitoring the house situation up here. I thought they were just running from all these trees flying at them but no also the pyramids con going to kind of explode at the end of this diamond is on top of it john. Hannah's gotta be a booth a monkey yet again. This is a great way to end this movie is. He's like now. I won't be so bad. And he dies and it's like. Oh wow something's happening this ma-maybe your life shouldn't be about plundering other civilizations and other countries national property and treasury but it's so cute. Nfl knee and adorable. Eric because then john and this dude playing izzy get to corvette at the end of this movie about like whether or not is he as the wheel man for that theft. We'll get fifty percent of the fucking profits or whatever i bet also gets nothing. They fought over the spirit. Some point they fly away and you know they're flying away from the desert or whatever and like for as much as he's been in the movie and he totally survives the final fight no goodbye with oh dead fair though his character is just sitting on a fucking horse looking up like will they are in that blimp or something will i. Everybody's by ride back to fucking. He just does his little magical kissed the knuckle and put it to the sky thing. I say goodbye. Yes my friends. Were coming in the airship and well. I'll be. It'll be seeing you all in england because i'm going back that way and that's with my friends they're leaving would actually never mind. There's a train right here what's going to happen. He's gonna have to ride his horse for like you know one hundred days and then it's going to die and by then he's out of water so he cuts it up and pours the blood into his canteen that he eats the horse as much as you any carries some of the flash with him. Obviously of course just drinks that blood to and walking through the desert to eventually find civilize. Man you really had this all planned out. I think about a lot. you say. you're leaving an airship. Yes i think that's it. You're rides ball. The do they do the customary double. Honk i only had one hong. Yeah it's it's kinda dumb and they sort of looked down and brendan fraser again. Like rick o'connell like yeah. That's right scumbag eyeing my wife. There's everyone's during your wife. Rachel dies in two thousand and one second of all but yeah so is he a madge i or not and does that even matter at all as a whole thing i mean christie right now but there's a whole thing that we didn't even get into talking about how there is i mean it's so lewis of the world prophecy thing that that are death based talking about and he's like this is what the prophecy said there was gonna be never tiete and then a fucking maj. warrior and then their offspring and they're going to bring about saving the world and that's your family clear as day and brendan fraser's like that is a big bunch of bullshit our death bay grain and it comes to absolutely nothing brennan fraser the closest it comes as he sees three drawings on a wall that shows him like how to kill the scorpion and the dude has the fucking tattoo in the picture and that's it and he's like guess it wasn't a bunch of bullshit great that's it let all these descendants of the ancient egyptian people are whitest snow white as snow but that's it that's it this movie ends with a very new metal live song which believe i'm not at the end of those. Oh yeah that soundtrack dude they were in that way towards the end with live once. They entered the odds. Everybody's trying for new middle of a little bit. It is a stunningly terrible song. Live with never a good no Whether the one big song right what was it. Like lightning crashes caches day h. That's that's very good me from and in the rolling sound wayne. Mummy opens the of a lighter. Here i could strike and yes. Oh no the microphone. Pop covers going to catch on fire k. Dude it's fucking raucous pod this what you guys subscribe for. It's kind of punk rock finance right and that is the end of the mummy returns. When anybody recommend this movie never never again A one and done with this guy folks never saw it never will ever again. It's two hours ten minutes. And like i said i'm not even the world's biggest fan on the first one i probably didn't even recommend it but at least it's fun and you know like slapsticky as oh majd old hollywood stuff. Almost all of that is gone in this one. That was fun and unique about the first one is just sequel is commodified in this. Just super boring chris kaman. Yeah making this short. Absolutely fucking not It's nothing works. I i kind of like felt it go on and nothing happened like i just didn't catch anything. I was just like this is happening. This movie is definitely happening. I don't fucking care about any of it totally eric. I've i feel like i was a little on board until like after the double decker bus thing and then 'cause that action the movie kind of kicks off it starts going pretty quick. Yeah it moves it okay. Pace for obviously. It's bloated run time but then it just falls apart after like thirty forty minutes and i couldn't recommend it. I really didn't like saying yeah. I will say i don't remember what i said on last summer's episode of the mummy. But i did rewatch that before. Watching this i lotta fun with it. I would recommend that one now. I would not recommend this one. It just like it is something where i could forgive. So much of the silliness if we went way more practical and dumped the cg but like it's just too much really bad apparently rushed incomplete cgi and some cases maybe like a m- never understand releasing movies this way. Like what the fuck were you doing. and yeah. i'm sorry. Have dwayne johnson. Just fucking fights met with gold. Chain mail please. They have that in your. That's your plan being are the special effects will definitely be good. Those didn't work out okay. Cool we've got planned be awesome. Gold paint cold paint and dwayne. That's that's all you would've needed man but that is the mummy returns directed by sir steven summers Bringing an end to the twenty twenty one summer blockbuster extravaganza if you want more we hate movies. Of course check out. Whm's patriotic that's patriot. Dot com slash. Whm podcast got a lot of stuff on there this month. We got mummy cartoons right on animation damnation. I've gotta say possibly better than this movie. Yeah actually We love movies on iron man fun episode. Lot of what a jeff bridges impressions on that one like that. We're continuing our Nexus we're talking about episode and episode of tng just to let you folks know there's so much there and if you subscribe you get literally everything we've ever done it's ours. It's not just what the months offerings are. So if you've ever heard us plug something in the past you can get it now as well But like like we said that is the end of the summer blockbuster extravaganza but as always here on we hate movies. Man we are fucking round. Show steve what is going on the main feed next week We are about to go back into shrek. Ville with puss and boots you ever saw this one's i can't tease anything yet kevin. You're the only one that saw you love this movie right now. Yeah i love it. I love it so much. Tattoo debuted yet on my right shoulder. Blade the egg that says it got raped. Wait why there's an egg in this that it kind of suggest that prison rape is a real thing in the shrek world Hey let let me ask you this appearance shrek in this movie. Don't think do it. What is speaking with iraq. Jobs at the beginning of the rundown. Hey hey percent. Bits have also put boots has to fight a christopher walken at the end amendment. So until next week when we're going back to tune down. I'm andrew joop stephen sadek nurik cisco chris gavin. Take it easy. That was a hit gum podcast.