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"dow jones josh" Discussed on Digiday Podcast
"Before we get to this week's interview. I want to encourage you to subscribe to one of digitize other podcasts and that is making marketing every week I speak to leaders in media with this podcast and in making Marketing surprise surprise sharing attack speaks with marketing leaders particularly those with new brands in recent weeks charene sat down with the CO founders of a brand that makes shoes in quarter sizes a CMO of one of the oldest insurance companies in the game that's metlife and the head of marketing over at one of the most visible France that is quip that podcast is making marketing subscribe now wherever you listen to your podcasts. Welcome to the digital podcast asked him Brian Marcy before we get started I wanNA give my usual reminder that you should become a digital plus member but I have an extra inducement digitally plus gets you unlimited access who are content all of our content and even working on a member bonus version of this podcast that should be next year we're not quite sure how that will look but it will happen I promise you mean we also give digital plus members exclusive research and newsletters and a lot more for a limited time go to digital dot com slash subscribe he's podcasts at checkout and you'll get thirty percent off that's thirty percent that's podcast checkup try this week I was joined by Josh thin comb the Global Sierra The Dow Jones Josh and I discussed what revenue diversification looks like Dow Jones with strong subscription business data events and content marketing services are due to its model and we also delve into life after the third party Cookie Hobie enjoying Josh on the podcast thanks for having me it's been a while it has been a while so explain exactly what's under your re-met sure so I oversee advertising and marketing services for our media properties which are the Wall Street Journal Barron's Market Watch financial news and in global business. Not The subs business tell me why these are not an opposition what you're doing and then what what the subscription side is yeah I mean I think if if the advertising goal was just a mass as much scale as possible then you could see a paywall and you know sort of blocking of access to some of our content as in conflict with the advertising business but actually see our businesses selling scarcity selling access to highly engaged first professional audiences and that's exactly what we're building through our membership business okay advertising business a little challenge these days Yeah uh-huh media companies so the market is demarcus challenging that said we have some really interesting bright spots in the AD business okay I'm on the bright spots with the good stuff first thing is I think our digital advertising offering sort of coming into its own admittedly I think the journal and the brands have been a little sleepy on the digital ad front but the actual underlying resources that we have the data that we have is digital advertising gold and I think this has been the year this past year where we finally put the focus and the investment to create really interesting differentiated digiland products and we're seeing record growth as a result so that's you know sort of a growing up I think of the journal digital ad business is growing growing shrinking it's not shrinking okay the opposite of shrink yes exactly right getting bigger so that's a clear bright spot and I think there's more upside for us in the short term because again we're we're scratching the surface of what's possible with the data that we have we had one person in Ad Tech when I started just over a year ago now a sizeable team whose entire job is is to create interesting digital ad products off the back of our first party data and what's an example so well in addition to just offering highly accurate audience segments built off our first party data because of our membership business we had a product that we launched this year called fee attic which was a contextual targeting tool actually built off another product that Dow Jones owns called Fat Tiba so we've built a patented a that sits on top affect Tiba which is a product that ingests thirty three thousand new sources from around the world million articles a day in this algorithm it creates a taxonomy of of themes and get smarter and more nuanced every day then we apply that taxonomy to every new piece of content that we publish on the journal or Barron's Market Watch so we can offer our advertisers the opportunity to be adjacent in real time to incredibly specific themes in terms contents it's much more sophisticated than keyword targeting for example and that's been sort of the hit of the year in Digital Advertising I think we over delivered on our expectations by about three acts in the first year and that's something obviously that average has can't get from Google and facebook I think you know there are very few if any companies that have the access to this much quality content coming through Activa and and certainly no one has is this exact sort of machine learning algorithm we've patented it and you know we're finding that it's again not only incredibly sort of popular with advertisers it's performing much better than almost any other targeting Approach that we take so on the targeting front obviously the pendulum swung very hard towards audience targeting tell you what happened there I don't feel like Holy Shit really and you know we've been talking about it swing back to context I mean are you actually see in this in the market hopeful no I I you know I think it's it's in the interest of publishers that it does but I I think there is some truth in it you know number one audience targeting doesn't take into account in many instances context I think that creates you know some of the brand safety issues we've seen people just chasing audiences said forgetting about anything else so I think there's a sort of a a rationalization around all right well you know I might be getting purser thinking I'm getting a person that I want but where did I find them and what's the context of it so that's the first thing the second and probably bigger change is going to be you know the inability to establish identity at scale across the open web you know as as we enter a world with cookies and more restrictions on third party data so people are going to look for in my mind sort of one of two things one publishers who have significant against amounts of First Party data and can establish some kind of identity on their platforms and and and our properties are in the enviable position of having pretty significant sort of logged in consumption base where we have a big digital membership business we know a lot about the people that are coming to our sites so from an audience targeting perspective you know we're going to become increasingly I think in rarefied company in terms of media companies who have I party data at some amount of scale secondly a are the other the other way to kind of address this this coming cookie apocalypse as it were is to look for proxies audience targeting which is contextual targeting right back to where the I guess the web started to some degree and I think contextual targeting tools are becoming more sophisticated like the one we rolled out we're not the only ones working on products like this so I think you're gonNA see again focus on publishers who have a lot of first party data and I think you're going to see the use of contextual targeting you know come back into vogue think broadly will be the winners of this this cookie pacalypse there's a lot of things going on right now to limit the use of third party cookies in third party cookies have been the workhorse right so that digital advertising was built built on the back of the walled gardens and the big platforms. I think they do well. They've done they this will help them you know th they have identity at scale yes oh they're not as dependent obviously in some cases not really at all dependent on third party data so this will help them and you can say all right what helps them sort of hurts the rest of the publishing industry and in aggregate that may be somewhat true but among the sort of non walled garden options I think you will see sort of winners and losers you know and and winners will be the one who do have a lot of valuable first party data that they can bring to the party needs some scale scale yeah absolutely right our brands are are at an all time high I'm happy to say in terms of paying members but also total digital reach so you know given the audiences we cater to we've got enough scale on which to apply this targeting to be a really interesting option for reaching sort of the the business elite and Oh you know I I like to think we'll be among the the winners in the sort of non walled garden world but it is gonNA come down to sort of a half and half knots in terms of First Party data you know all of the scrutiny on the platforms to actually benefit publishers in in the in the reality of the ad cricket or is that just something that's going on like you know at this really high level yeah no I I think it already is benefiting US actually you know I can't speak to what there's sort of internal motivations are but you know we are seeing better commercial opportunity coming from the platforms than we ever have had so you know we've we've done a couple of big deals this year with platforms I think the general environment is one where they are valued or they are being forced to value so quality journalism and recognize they have to pay for it in some way so I think the relationship between the platforms and and quality publishers is better today than it's maybe ever been and that could be a result of some of the scrutiny on them instead of doing it because they have to but I also think you know consumers are demanding more of them in terms of of what they read on those platforms and wanting to know that there's quality vetted actual information on there it seems like apple is sort of like the favourite platform apple is is apple's very publisher friendly because they're not focused on their AD business they tried to protect exactly right we are partners with apple news plus but that's yeah you sort of nascent advertising platform at this point but Yeah we did we did a a big deal with twitter this year we produced daily video show on twitter called what's now producing twenty plus videos a day live streaming all of our events so how does it work do you sell into that today sound both sort of both it's sort of a coordinated effort and they're they're great partners actually I I think you know twitter has been really fantastic partner both from a you've you know content creation support partner but also in the on the ad sailing side with you know collaborative sales teams in good terms and so we've been really pleased with facebook partner don't know well read into that let's talk about how you stitch you stitch the value proposition together because I mean you're you're coming to the market with a lot more than just all in brands sort of marketing life in the following way one I can help them better understand their target audiences especially when those target audiences are C. suite executives or institutional investors are individual investors the kinds of people that were really effective at reaching an understanding so the the first piece of it is is sort of an insider intelligence piece which is what are these people care about how are these people spending there time what's keeping them up at night a lot of which I can infer from what they're doing on my platforms and how they're using my products so that's the first piece and I think that's obviously helpful for brands because they're getting into the minds of of their customers the second thing I can do is offer them access to those customers through advertising and a very targeted way putting them in front of the right folks you know across the different properties whether that's in print or digital or events which which we can get onto a minute but I can also help them create for this audience so if I sort of I know what is interesting to CFO's as an example I can also because of the products activa get a sense into so much content sort of exists out there in the world on on any number of topics I say here's some white space but it's an area of interest and let us help you you know eight four or shoot for if it's a video or you know program for if it's an event this audience and I think we bring a philosophy with it which is the one that the Journal and the barons newsrooms you know employees every day which is we need to add value to these people's.