18 Episode results for "Donner"

Best of 2019: The Donner Party Pt. 1

Survival

51:52 min | 10 months ago

Best of 2019: The Donner Party Pt. 1

"Hey it's tim here is one of survivals. Most requested episodes of two thousand nineteen will be back on January every sixth with an all new episode. Have a happy and safe New Year. The following episode contains descriptions of violence starvation. An animal cruelty that some listeners may find offensive listener discretion is advised especially for children under thirteen. The heat heat was unbearable. James read kicked his horse's flanks urging it onward the Grey Mare glaucous had become his most most reliable companion on this long track. He hated pushing the animal so hard but right now speed was paramount. Uh James had been separated from the train for twenty hours after volunteering to ride ahead and find water for his family. He had found found the water but that bought him little piece of mind. This desert was harsh and unforgiving his family was counting on him to guide. Guide them through it. His Heart's sword when he saw the familiar wagon train on the horizon. He had made it. His family would not not die of thirst tonight but when James reached his family's wagons his heart sank again all but one of the oxen oxen were gone as well as the teamsters he had hired to watch over them. His wife Margaret told him not to worry. The teamsters had simply. I've been driving the oxen ahead to water them and would be back soon. James must've passed them on his way back. They waited all day long for the teamsters teamsters and their animals to return they never did after twenty four hours of waiting. James picked up his youngest child and they started started walking through the burning desert as they trudged ahead following the tracks of the wagons head of them James Cursed under his breath. He should have never left his family unattended with most of their livestock gone. James didn't know if they'd survive the rest. Their journey west. Welcome to survival. Apar- cast original canal on your host Irma Blanco. And I'm Tim Johnson every Monday. We'll take you inside incredible true stories of life or death situations you can find find episodes of survival and all other podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream survival for free on spotify. Just open the the APP and type survival in the search bar. This is our first episode on the Donner Party. A Caravan of American settlers bound for California in the fall all of eighteen forty-six this wagon train consisted of around ninety hopeful settlers including men women pets livestock and infants their perilous route. Took them two thousand five hundred miles across North America through two desserts and into gap in the Sierra Nevada. Now known as Donner Pass. The trip should have taken four months in the end it dragged on on for a year exacerbated by bad weather and rapidly dwindling food stores at par cast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at our cast network. And if you enjoy today's Day's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review wherever you're listening. It really does help for Americans. The eighteen forties was the age of manifest destiny. This philosophy that white eight settlers how to write to settle and tame the wild land of America swept its way across the steel young United States though settlers had already spread from Philadelphia and New York all the way to Iowa and Missouri the land west of the rocky mountains was still wild and relatively untamed and enticing prospects for European Americans who craved a lush new land. To thrive in this new interest was spurred bird in no small part by book published in Eighteen. Forty five the emigrant's guide to California and Oregon. The author of this book was an explorer named Lansford Hastings who spent much of the early eighteen forty s living in the Mexican province of California. He was ambitious man. Dan who wanted to see California. Become its own republic. Some believe that hastings book was his way of effecting a bloodless revolution by encouraging urging white settlers to move into the Mexican territory word of this fresh opportunity reached Springfield Illinois where a man named George Donner lived with his family. George Donner was sixty two years old and in excellent health for his age originally from Salem North Carolina he was a man who rarely stayed in one place for long his daughter later described him as imbued with the spirit spirit of adventure throughout his life. He slowly moved westward. Living briefly in Kentucky and Indiana after losing his first two wives to disease these he married his third wife Tamsin and they settled in Illinois. He was a popular figure in springfield known to neighbors as Uncle George but in eighteen forty five he was feeling the urge to move once again. Descriptions of the land out West entreat him and his younger brother Jacob. They grew up particularly interested. In California's pleasant climate and fertile soil. A subject many explorers raved about Georgian. John Jacobs spent the winter of eighteen. Forty five diligently studying the maps and writings of Lansford Hastings finally after considerable discussion and and consideration. They decided they would leave for California on April Fifteenth Eighteen forty-six this departure date made the most sense. It's as it gave the families the largest window of favorable weather to cross thousands of miles between Illinois and the Western territories in the weeks weeks before their departure. George Donner took pains to ensure they were prepared for any obstacle they might come across. They purchased livestock to keep them fed while all on the road seeds to cultivate in their new home knickknacks and jewelry to barter. With any native American tribes they might encounter and find silks and and fabrics to trade for Mexican land rights when they finally reached California as they set out. George Donner met another man with his sights. Set on California. AH -fornia the forty five year old. James F read read. An Irishman who had settled in Illinois in eighteen. Thirty one had also been taken by hastings vivid descriptions of California. The two families joined up together and became known as the Donna Reed Party between the two families they possessed nine covered wagons six for the donors in three for the reads. They pass through independence Missouri. Korea on May twelfth eighteen forty six joining up with a wagon train on the most popular emigrant route West. The Oregon trail here Donna Reed Party was joined by the family of Patrick Breen. An iowan Catholic and Lavina Murphy a widow who headed a family of thirteen gene. Despite his hefty preparations George Donner had a number of worries chief among them was his brother. Jacob Jacob. Donner was about eight years younger than George but far less physically fit and prone to fatigue and illness. George prayed that they would have enough supplies. Unfavorable weather to make it to California without his brother contracting some sickness or becoming injured the male heads of the families. George Donner owner. James Read and Patrick Breen were all in agreement about making it to California as fast as possible to beat the weather and save supplies according to Lansford Hastings writing. This was an achievable goal. A passage in hastings book proposed an alternate route to California that he claimed would save travelers plenty of time and mileage. He wrote the most direct route for the California emigrants would be to leave the Oregon Oregon route about two hundred miles east from Fort Hall thence bearing West South West to the Salt Lake and thence continuing down to the Bay of Saint Francisco Franscisco by the route just described but what hastings neglected to mention in. His book was that he had never taken the route himself at the time. I am of writing the efficiency of hastings. Cutoff was pure conjecture drawn by a man who was only going off of maps and descriptions he had heard from other other individuals on June twenty seventh. The Donna Reed Party arrived at Fort Laramie a popular trading post in in eastern Wyoming. The very same day James climbing a companion of Lansford Hastings arrived at the fort as well. Climate and James Reed eight were old friends from the eighteen. Thirty two Black Hawk war having served together in the same company read sat down with climbing and asked him about the shortcut to California proposed in Hastings Book climates. Face fell when he heard the optimism and reads voice he told read in no Oh uncertain terms to take the more established route to California. He said take the regular wagon track and never leave it. It is barely possible to get through if you follow it and it may be impossible if you don't read protested saying the regular wagon trail was too far out of the way and would cost them days. If not weeks of extra travel climbing insisted in the tail end of eighteen forty eighty five. He and hastings had crossed back from California through the hastings cutoff. It took them over the Sierras through the winding canyons. Thick brush of the wasatch mountains and across the Great Salt Desert. He told read that the root hastings described was inhospitable at best and deadly at worst read parted company with climbing that night undeterred. Whatever warnings climbing gave him about about hastings new route they were outweighed by Reed's own desire for a more direct path to California as the party continued West? They were accompanied by a number of settlers bound for Oregon on July eleventh. They encountered a man coming the opposite the direction he introduced himself as Wales Be Bonnie. He had with him a letter that he was supposed to deliver to any settlers traveling west. It was an open letter penned by Lansford Hastings to all California emigrants now on the road. Unlike climbing he he extolled the benefits of his new cutoff which he adjusts explored. He advised everyone who read the letter to head straight to Fort Bridgier where he would be waiting. Waiting to escort settlers West along his route. Read was delighted by the news. He and the other families had been growing worried about the lateness of the the season. It was already halfway through the summer and they still had half their journey to go with this encouragement. The Donna Reed Group parted company company with the rest of the wagon train on July eighteenth and headed for Fort Bridgier now autonomous company of their own. The Donner read party voted on. Who would be the captain of their group? The choice was between the heads of the three families. George Donner James Read and Patrick Breen. Gene James Reads Stern military demeanor had made him automatically unpopular among the group George and the older man respected did his experience and fortitude but amongst the younger men and women in the group read came off as overbearing and unnecessarily cruel. Patrick Breen on the other hand was too much of a Catholic for many of the Protestants in the group. So the group elected George Donner who had neither the temperament of read or the piety of Breen. It would be the easiest decision. The party made throughout their entire trip. But not everyone was thrilled with the new plans. One of the other settlers wrote in his journal as they left the donners the Californians were much elated and in. I'm fine spirits with the prospect of better and nearer road to the country of their destination. Mrs George Donner however was an exception Thompson. Donner Georgia's forty four year. Old Wife was disillusioned with the leadership of their party including her husband. She thought they were foolish. Foolish to put their fate in the hands of a man who probably was in her words. Some selfish adventurer but George Donner didn't heed his wife's concerns her. Misgivings only got worse. When the newly Chris Donner Party arrived at Fort Bridger on July twenty eighth when they asked around on for Lansford Hastings they found out he had left several days earlier? But the owners of the Fort Mountain Men Jim Bridger and Louis Vasquez offered them supplies and information regarding the route. Hastings took read recorded bridges advice in a letter home saying hastings. Cutoff is said to be saving of three hundred fifty or four hundred miles going to California the rest of the Californians went the long route feeling afraid of hastings cutoff. Mr Bridgier informs me that the route we designed to take is a fine level road with plenty of water and grass but bridgier was not telling read the whole truth some days before a friend of reads named Edwin Bryant visited Ford Bridgier and left a letter. For Reid he had just come through. Hastings Cutoff and wrote urgently to dissuade read. From taking that route it was terribly impractical for wagons. He wrote and was actually a more inefficient route than the longer one. Jim Bridgier did not give this letter letter to read or even mentioned that Bryant had come through. He could not risk the party turning back his business depended on it bridgier. You're and Vasquez had been running fourth bridge since eighteen forty three by eighteen forty six the established route to California circumvented. This trading post altogether altogether meaning their supply of customers had sharply declined over the preceding three years but if hastings cutoff became a popular route for settlers going to California Bridgier and Vasquez would be able to revive their failing business. Neither George Donner nor any of his companions suspected. Did bridgier had any hidden agenda though many of them remarked in letters home that Ford Bridgier wasn't much of a Ford at all more. A pitiful collection of cabins surrounded surrounded by meager fortifications after trading for supplies and fresh livestock. The Donner Party set out once again on July thirty first hoping to catch up with hastings on his route to California a week later on August sixth they encountered the first evidence of hastings things at the eastern end of Weber Canyon. A narrow pass into the wasatch mountains hastings had left note there tied to some sagebrush its contents were not encouraging in the letter. Hastings advised they not attempt to bring their wagons into this pass instead. Stead he suggested they send a messenger through to meet him and he would come back and guide them along a better route. George Donner called for volunteers on tier to go through and meet Hastings. James read volunteered along with two other men. Charles Stanton and William Pike. The three men saddled pulled up and went into the pass while the rest of the Donner Party. Set Up. Camp Waited Read Stanton and pike soon discovered why hastings had warned against taking this route. The pass was narrow and littered with jutting rocks crags debris even without wagons. They found it difficult difficult to navigate the Canyon on August eighth. They emerged on the other side of the wasatch. Mountains ragged and exhausted waiting for them on on. The banks of the Great Salt Lake was Lansford Hastings himself and the Party of sixty wagons. He escorted through the pass. Read Stanton An and pike were relieved at last could finally speak to the man who had led them so astray unfortunately for them. Hastings had no intention of doubling back to help any stragglers when we return. The Donner Party falls behind schedule will and starts facing the fatal consequences of hastings shortcut. Hi It's Tim podcast listeners. We have something special just for you. Starting December eleventh podcast is releasing forty five classic episodes from the critically critically acclaimed series. Remarkable lives tragic deaths as part of the new limited series famous fates these stories are all true. All compelling in and only available on spotify here our hosts Carter and Vanessa to tell you more thank you so much. We are thrilled to bring back the amazing true stories. Behind some of history's most influential lives and trucking deaths. Starting December eleventh remarkable lives tragic deaths notably named named I tunes best. New podcast of two thousand sixteen is coming back to spotify as the new limited series famous fates with five episodes released every Wednesday. Each group will center around a common theme such as Hollywood icons mysterious deaths or notorious names from Marilyn Monroe when Harry Houdini to Vincent Van Gogh and Al Capone will delve deeper into the extraordinary lives. That helped shape our world and explore the lasting effects acts. Their deaths had on our culture. These incredible stories are all brought to life by an ensemble cast of talented voice actors and most importantly those episodes are all free and only available on spotify follow the podcast limited series famous fates only on spotify now back to the story by the time they reached the wasatch mountains in August of eighteen. Forty six the Donner Party. Numbered Eighty seven members in twenty three wagons. It had grown considerably from the thirty two man party that had left Springfield that spring. They were joined by several smaller families. Such as William Etty a cabinetmaker from Illinois with his wife and two children some of these families included who'd immigrants such as Louis Keys Berg a foul tempered German with his family an old Belgian man named hard coop who traveled with kice Berg and and another German known only by the surname Vol- finger. Several single men bolstered the group including the thirty five year. Old Charles Stanton and an Irishman named Patrick Dolan one final family caught up with them as they waited for James read to return from the far side of the wasatch mountains on August eighth. This was the graves family who had been trailing behind them since they left Independence Missouri. One of their hired men. John Snyder did his bass to encourage the flagging spirits of the Donner Party on August tenth. Eighteen forty six James. Reid returned to the party. The alone he had left Charles Stanton and William Pike Resting on the other side of the mountains. He passed on a message from Lansford Hastings. The explorer explorer whose book had guided them to what looked like a dead end read Stanton and Pike had demanded that hastings show them a better route through the mountains than the horrible one they had just taken hastings indicated a nearby pass through the mountains would would not be joining them. He was preoccupied with his own on wagon train and would not wait for the donners to catch up with him. When he finally returned to the donners read claimed that following hastings guidance he had found and another route that would circumvent the narrow canyon? He called this route reads pass. It had some dense underbrush to get through but it was nowhere. No where near as hazardous as the narrow passageway hastings book had led them to encouraged the party. Turns southwest is to follow this new path. At first it was promising only sloping gently upward toward the pass in the mountains. However by August Fifteenth Eighteenth they could go no further? The brush had grown too thick for the wagons to pass and it needed to be cleared before they could continue. It took took three days for the able bodied men of the group to cut a path through the thick undergrowth. All the while read grew steadily more irritable label and started berating. The men for not working as hard as they could by the time they reached the crest on August. Twenty first. Many members of the party started to doubt reads judgment as a guide it had taken sixteen days to cross the wasatch mountains. The route that had seemed so promising had cost them their most precious resource time. The group hastily descended into the Salt Lake Valley following tracks left by Hastings Company company. The wagon train began to spread out each family travelling at their own pace. The donner wagon lagged behind due to a sickly passenger. A young man named Luke Halloran who they had picked up at Fort. Bridgier Halloran thought that the California climate would help cure his debris closys but as August wore on his strength waned until he passed away on August. Twenty fifth many historians consider Luke Halloran the. I true casualty of the Donner Party. The Donner stopped just long enough. To Bury Him. Then set off. After their companions the craggy mountain range and thick underbrush of the wasatch mountains was only the first obstacle. The second was the assault desert following the Great Salt Lake. Crossing this arid Utah Desert took its toll on the Donner Party. They fought searing hot hot sun during the day in bitterly cold winds at night the wagons drifted further and further apart and dehydration began to set. Am One of the first to feel. The effects of Dehydration was William Etty toward the front of the train as he walked he saw another group group of settlers in the distance perfectly. Mirroring his own family's progress in moments. The Caravan had vanished into the hazy distance. Nothing but a mirage fearing either his cattle or his family would die of thirst. James read road ahead of his wagons to fetch. It's water leaving his family and his oxen in the care of his teamsters. The hired men UNHITCH oxen from the wagons to prevent them from passing out from thirst. I and exhaustion by this point. Many of the oxen were half blind from sand. Blowing into there is once they were freed from on the yolks that held them back. The beasts flew into a frenzy and charged off into the dark. No one really knows precisely why they did this. But but it's suspected that the scent of a nearby oasis drove the parched animals to charge away in search of water read returned to find his family left left with only one cow and one auks with most of his herd gone. The read family had lost a significant source of food as as well as the means to pull their three wagons they loaded everything they could fit onto their one remaining wagon prioritizing what food they had left after seven days of trudging through the desert. The Donner Party gathered by spring at the base of pilot peak. The camp there for around a week taking in supplies and searching for livestock that had wandered off read was not the only one who wound up abandoning wagons ends for supply reasons. Both George Donner and Louis Keys. Berg abandoned one wagon each during this leg of the journey the long march through a desert had been disastrous for the party's supply levels as well. Most families had lost significant numbers of livestock and were suffering from malnutrition with food stores. Running low the group decided to send someone ahead to bring them supplies. From Sutter's fort the nearest Californian trading post two men volunteered Charles Stanton and William big bill mccutcheon read gave Kutch in a letter to deliver to sutter promising that read would repay him for any provisions that the two men took back with him stanton and mccutchen set off and a few days later on September tenth. The Donner Party broke camp and soldiered on the tracks left by hastings group were still visible in the sand and dirt ahead of them. Giving them a clear route to follow. But once again taking hastings advice turned out to be a bad idea. The tracks led the settlers along the Ruby mountains which turned out to be a one hundred twenty-five mile detour though they wouldn't realize this until later. Finally on September Timber Twenty Six. They reached the Humboldt River where Hastings Cutoff met the established emigrant trail. The detour had been disastrous right. Taking Hastings Cutoff. The Donner Party was now weeks behind schedule. And many families including reads were perilously. Low on supplies lies. The Donner family took the lead and the rest of the train followed hoping that with diligent rationing. They could still make it to California. The end of September passed uneventfully with the party making steady progress along the trail but at the dawn of October tensions. Sion's reached a breaking point between the various families on the morning of October fifth. Reid and William Etty left the wagon train to hunt. They hoped to bolster their depleted food. Stores Until Stanton and mccutchen returned from Trading Post that evening as the two men return to the wagon train seen read heard some voices raised in argument just underneath the voices came the unmistakable. Sound of screaming oxen read picked up his pace writing up to his wagon to see what was causing the racket. What he found was a scene of utter chaos us? The team of oxen belonging to the graves family had become tangled with reads remaining ox and his family wagon graves driver twenty-three-year-old twenty-three-year-old John's Snyder was furiously whipping the oxen in an attempt to separate the teams he shouted milt Elliott claiming that Eliot had been in his is way and it was his fault that the animals had gotten entangled re dismounted his horse and Berated Snyder for mistreating the animals. He drew his hunting knife to cut the wagons free then turning his frustration from Elliot to Elliott's employer. Snyder threatened to whip read. It came any closer in an attempt to defuse the situation read told Snyder they should settle the matter later. Snyder replied we will. Oh settle it now and struck read in the head with the butt of his bull. Whip this blow knocked read to the ground. Snyder leapt on him. Furiously Lee striking him. Several more times Margaret. Reid attempted to break up the fight but received a blow to her head as well. When Snyder went to strike again reads reads stood and plunged his knife into Snyder's chest puncturing? His left lung. Snyder stumbled into the arms of his employer. Billy graves who caught him and lowered him to the ground moments. Later John Snyder was dead. Read was immediately mmediately filled with remorse. He reportedly through his bloody hunting knife. Side and despair. He offered boards from his own wagon for a coffin but this was rejected by the graves family with their captain. George Donner two days ahead. The company formed a council to decide what should be done with James Reid who is now considered a murderer. John Schneider though only hired hand had been popular among the company. Read on the other hand was the caustic and haughty man who had insisted they take a difficult route. Most of the party had not seen the events events that led to John. Snyder's death and doubted reads claim of self-defence. Some men wrote down affidavits from all the witnesses which they stored for an eventual trial in California others wanted to dispense frontier justice that very day. Lewis Keys Berg raised east his wagon tongue in the air and said the read should be hanged from it immediately. The two sides friends of read and of Snyder debated the issue. You back and forth the entire evening. Finally they settled on a sentence that appeased the majority read would be banished from the party. Without food. Food or weaponry in the desert this was tantamount to a death sentence but one that didn't force his family to watch him die on the morning of October. Sixth the day after Snyder's body was buried read bade farewell to his family and road off into the wilderness onus on his prize mayor glaucous that night in direct. Defiance of the group reads daughter-in-law Virginia and Milt Elliott Rode Out after him. When they caught up with read they gave him his rifle pistols ammunition and a handful of crackers? They then returned to their families. He's on his way. West read past the Donner family wagons. Where he claimed to have been sent ahead to seek additional supplies in California? George Donner may have been skeptical. That read would so willingly abandon his family but he didn't question him. One of the donners. teamsters Walter Herron been volunteered to go with read for supplies. The two men than set off ahead on reads horse many in the Donner Party would never see. See them again. Soon afterward. A German member of the party. Mr Goldfinger lost all of his own livestock and had to abandon his wagon again. His wife Doris went ahead with the rest of the party. While two men Joseph Reinhart and Augusta Spitzer stayed behind to help vol- finger salvage salvage what goods he could carry Reinhardt and Spitzer rejoined the party. A few days later is solemn news for Mrs Vol- finger. They claimed claimed her husband had been killed by members of the Piat tribe who had attacked and burned the wagon. When news of this claim reached the donner wagons? George Donner made a note of it. It was no secret. vol- finger carried a considerable sum of money on his person so his sudden death was suspicious. Rumors rumors of murder began to circulate among the weary travelers. The party was starting to come apart at the seams. After after months of marching together many families openly resented their neighbors and started to keep mostly to themselves along the wagon train families. These were making efforts to lighten the load for their weary oxen. The Keys Berg family even kicked their traveling companion the old Belgian named Hard coop out of their wagon hard. Coop begged other wagons to take him in but his pleas fell on deaf ears. Most families didn't want onto tax. Their remaining oxen with another passenger raids from nearby Pyeho natives had driven off or wounded many of the livestock and those that remained remained were a precious commodity hard. Coop fell behind and was never seen again on October. Fifteenth a pie you route raid killed. All but one of William Eddie's cattle forcing Eddie his wife and child to abandon many of their possessions and continue on on foot the next day Eddie arrived at Patrick Breen's wagon where he begged for some water to help his family crossed the Alkali Desert Breen in who had seven children of his own to think of refused to share Eddie seized a rifle and pointed at brean telling him that he would kill Hill for the water had to breen. Let him fill a bucket and continue on his way. Despite the threat breen let the whole incident go. The man was desperate and he would have done the same for his own family. The desert finally ended when the Donner Party reached the truckee river on October for seventeenth. Eddie relieved said about hunting nearby geese for his family. All they have left to eat was flour but their father was a a skilled marksman and soon. He brought back nine geese for his children to eat on October. Nineteenth Charles Stanton returned learned from Sutter's fort with supplies for the flagging party trailing behind him or seven mules laden with flour dried beef and other supplies but missing was his companion. Big Bill mccutchen. He had fallen ill at sutter's fort and couldn't return instead stanton brought brought back to me walk. Native American cowboys named Luis and Salvador to help the struggling train stanton had passed a haggard Eggert read and heron going the opposite direction read was so gone from starvation. That stanton had barely recognized him. The Party members who had exiled him were astonished that Reid had made it. So far. The return of Stanton and the new supplies gave hope to the settlers. Maybe just maybe these supplies would carry them to California. Their hopes were dashed only a day later later on October twentieth they caught their first glimpse of the Sierra Nevada. A sheer wall of granite rising up in the distance But it wasn't just the size of these mountains that caused distress among the group. The tips of the Sierra Nevada mountain range were frosted with snow. Oh it was their first tangible sign. That winter was on the horizon when we return the Donner Party seals their own own fate with a final push for California now back to the story in late October. Eighteen forty six the donner party. He was tantalizingly close to their destination just beyond the Sierra Nevada mountains was the untamed land of California however are winter was quickly approaching. And if they didn't pass those mountains soon they ran. The risk of being snowed in the supplies. Charles Stanton Dan had brought them from California with last the party a little while longer but George Donner feared. They were pushing their luck. He decided they should send another another advance. Party to Sutter's Fort for supplies to men William Foster and William Pike volunteered to make the journey. But but this expedition would never happen. As the two men packed their provision to scale the mountain range pistol foster was holding accidentally discharged. The bullets struck William Pike in the back and he collapsed to the ground writhing in agony. The group gathered around him watching him as he can toward it on the ground. Groaning after an excruciating twenty minutes he died. Fourteen year old. Mary Mary Murphy would later right. He suffered more than tongue can tell. Foster was wracked with guilt hike had been his brother-in-law in law. He fell into a solemn silence for the rest of the journey unable to find more volunteers for a supply. Run or unwilling. Going to spend the time George Donner insisted they go on with the supplies they had. They moved camp and made their way toward the truckee river. Canyon hoping they could beat the snow by the time they arrived at Truckee River Canyon in late October. Eighteen forty six. The Donner Party had split into the three distinct groups. The lead group with the brain family. The keys Bergh's and the Eddie's the middle group with Margaret Reid and her children the Graves as Family Charles Stanton Luis and Salvador and the third group consisting only of the Donner family trailing far behind George Donner stayed to the rear of the train so their cattle wouldn't get run down by any of the other wagons he was also deeply concerned about wagons is having difficulty on the upcoming slopes in wanted to make sure he could provide assistance for any that fell behind. As far as George Donner was concerned. Their journey was still salvageable as long as they could pass the SIERRAS. Before winter they would be able to reach their destination but as the Donner's descended into the nearby dog valley another unanticipated disaster struck as they guided their horses and Oxen Oxen into the Canyon one of the Donner Wagons overturned trapping two of the children in the wreckage. Four Year Old Georgia and three year old Elisa. Fortunately neither was seriously injured but the accident presented another issue to the donners. The axle of this wagon had broken skin and needed repairs now having completely lost sight of the rest of their party. George Donner and his brother. Jacob said about fashioning a replacement replacement axle from a nearby pine log. George held the Log while Jacob hacked away at it with Chisel Justice Jacob was putting the finishing touches on it the Chisel slipped cutting a deep gash across the back of George Donner's hand as his family washed and dressed just his wound George quipped that he had greater concerns than cuts and bruises despite his flippant tone. His concern was growing. They couldn't waste time on such a minor inconvenience when they were so far behind the rest of their party at that same moment around five miles south west West. The remainder of the Donner Party was pushing to escape. The valley the other fifty nine members of the party were camped out by Truckee Lake Nick. They had awakened that morning to an inch of snow and panicked realizing that winter was not far off without the leadership of George Donner are. The group decided to take a chance and try to summit the Sierra Nevada. They turned to Charles Stanton for guidance as he was the only one who knew the way. Hey the to me. Walks accompanied Stanton Luis and Salvador also knew the mountains but they couldn't speak much English on November second. The party made their way to the far side of the lake and attempted to summit. Though it was still only fall the rocks were already slick like with snow and ice iron rimmed wagon. Wheels couldn't gain any traction on the rock and they began to slide backwards on the steep. Incline the driver is beat at the oxen mercilessly to force progress but the wagons could only move forward mere feet at a time. Though Stanton Canton and walks could scout ahead a good ways up the mountain on foot the waggons lagged far behind them by this point everyone had stepped out of their wagons in an attempt to lighten the load for their exhausted animals. Some men even attempted to push their own wagons hoping that would be just chest the encouragement the oxygen needed to make real progress. Almost all of the women carried their children adding to their exhaustion. Stanton returned from scouting ahead to find the party had come to a complete standstill dark storm. Clouds gathered overhead. Some of the men lit a nearby pitch pine on fire and everyone gathered around it for warmth. Stanton attempted to persuade the family to press Assan but night was drawing in fast. The men and women were tired instead of setting up camp. Many simply put buffalo skins ends and blankets on the ground laying down to sleep by the burning pine on the morning of November. Third Louis Keys. Berg awoke to a terrible shock. He stepped out of his wagon to what seemed like an empty plain of white. Snow devoid eight of life when he cried out in alarm heads started popping out of the snowbanks having been buried during the night one by one on the settlers awoke and jump to their feet brushing snow from their clothing and shaking their blankets dry. The Valley had been transformed from Green lean-to white overnight. Winter had finally caught up with them. Concern gave way to panic and the families gathered by the burnt. treed you to figure out a course of action. They faced a terrible choice either attempt to summit the icy mountain which they had already failed to do the day before or head back to the lake and risk getting trapped in by the snow and cold in the end after a heated discussion. Shen they decided to take the latter option. This is unsurprising. The dreadful mountain climb was fresh in their minds from the previous day and at least a return to the lake could promise shelter and a chance to assess their options and think of a new plan. The fifty nine men Women and children guided their wagons back down the mountains as they made their way back to. The lake. Snow began to fall gently at first but soon increasing in speed and intensity. The settlers quickly realized that neither the tents they had been using being nor their covered wagons would be enough protection against the cold they would need to construct more permanent shelters Patrick Breen gene discovered a primitive cabin a mile to the east of lake which he claimed for his family it was a crude structure made of pine saplings with with a dirt floor and no roof. This structure had been erected by young migrant named Moses shellenberger who had spent the winter of eighteen eighteen forty four in the valley to make the cabin habitable the brains fashioned a roof out of hides and canvas. The nine Breen's were joined by Patrick Dolan and a Mexican drove named Antonio in the cramped one hundred sixty eight square foot space Louis Keys Berg constructed shelter for his own family up against the brains cabin southwest of the structure close to the Lake William Liam Eddie and William Foster located a large concave boulder they hurriedly gathered materials and constructed three walls of a cabin up against it it sixteen individuals including Eddie Foster and Levine. Murphy's families all moved into this stone cabin. The final final structure in the lake camp was nearly a mile to the east and slightly. North of the brain's cabin. This cabin was built by Franklin graves and consisted of two adjacent chambers one for the graves family and the other for the reads. Since James Reid's departure Franklin graves had taken some some sense of responsibility for his wife and children as soon as they could the encamped travelers dispatched a messenger. Backup backup the trail to meet. The donors the donner family had reached a stream. It now called Alder Creek. When they heard the news that the rest of their company had failed failed to cross the SIERRAS and Renou constructing cabins by the lake for shelter fearing that a full blizzard was not far off? George George Jacob Donner began working on a log cabin by the creek. This was slow going as George couldn't use his injured right. Hand and Jacob was is feeling weak from travel as the snow piled up around them. They abandoned the unfinished cabin and through together. Three canvas tents one for George Donner's family one for Jacobs and a third for their teamsters. Between the two camps there were eighty one people in total fifty nine at the cabins by the lake and twenty two by Alder Creek by this time. The original party of eighty seven that traveled west from independence was down to seventy nine five had died one had been banished and two had gone west. Ask for help. Those that remained in the truckee river valley were unprepared for winter. If they stayed they would run out of food in days. Yes and if they tried to climb the Sierras they would risk both starvation and freezing to death after walking over two thousand miles sales. They were just over one hundred miles away from the nearest settlement California Sutter's Fort But as the families huddled together in their makeshift shelters. The beautiful land of California had never felt farther away. Many of their party would never lay is is on any land beyond the frozen basin. They were now trapped within. Thanks for listening to survival next week. Winter sets in Truckee Lake and certain members of the Donner party make a desperate bid to escape their winter. Retract for more information on Donner Party amongst the many sources we I used. We found the indifferent stars above the Harrowing Saga of a Donner Party bride by Daniel James Brown extremely helpful to our research search. You can find all episodes of survival and all other podcast originals for free on spotify not only to spotify already. Have all your favorite Kevin Music but now spotify making it easier for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals survival for free from your phone desktop or or smart speaker to stream survival on spotify just open the APP tap browse and type survival in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you next time. Survival was created by Max Cutler is is it production of cutler media and as part of the podcast network it is produced by Maxon Ron Cutler sound design by Andy Weights with production. Assistance Barons Shapiro and Paul Lee skin additional production assistance by Carly Madden and Maggie Admire. This episode of survival is written by Robert Team strath and stars Irma Blanco and Tim Johnson podcast listeners. Don't forget to check out the limited series that's just for you. Starting December eleventh. PODCAST is rereleasing forty. Five classic ask episodes from the critically acclaimed series. Remarkable lives tragic deaths as part of the new limited series famous fates. These stories are all all true. All compelling and only available on spotify with five episodes released every Wednesday journey deeper into the impactful lives and shocking deaths of Hollywood icons thought leaders influential women and more follow the limited series famous fates free and only on spotify.

George George Jacob Donner Donner Party California Lansford Hastings Charles Stanton James Reid Donner Wagons Donner family George Donner hastings James Patrick Breen Donner Pass Uncle George spotify John Snyder teamsters hastings cutoff donner party Lansford Hastings
396 - the Donner Party

The Dollop with Dave Anthony and Gareth Reynolds

1:27:34 hr | 1 year ago

396 - the Donner Party

"You guys the dolphins brought to you. In part by Casper. Casper is a sleep brand that makes expertly designed products to help you get your best one night. At a time gaspar products aww cleverly designed to Mimic Human Kerr's providing supportive comfort for all kinds of bodies now obviously my body's not the same garris body but we both have casper through mattresses and in my bed can handle my curves which they're more of its sinking that bad boy. It's like it's like in hugged by a bed. At night. I sleep so awesome on it. The original Casper mattress combines multiple supportive memory foams for quality sleep service with the right amounts of both sink and bounce breathable Zayn helps you sleep cool and regulates your body temperature throughout the night and that is totally true casper and offers three other mattresses the wave the essential and the hybrid the way features is a patent pending premium support system to mirror the natural shape your body. The essential has a streamlined design at a price won't keep you up at night and the hybrids combine the pressure relief leave the award winning foam with durable yet gentle springs. That's right you can be sure of your purchase with Casper is a one hundred nights risk-free sleep Bonnett trial get one hundred dollars towards select mattresses by visiting Casper Dot com slash dolphin using dollop checkout. THAT'S CASPER DOT com slash dial up and using dollop up at checkout terms and restrictions apply and we are also brought to you by Your Bird Jawbone empowers you to create the furniture in space that brings you joy and keeps those summer vibes flowing all year long we have in our home. We have a chair and it's a very large chair and it's very comfortable chair and it fits two men and a dog two-way two dogs and a man in a man. I don't know what words are but I'm pretty sure it's me into animals to get on the chair uh and and the fabric is awesome because they can't mess it up. You know what your you get one of kind furniture crafted to your tastes turning ideas into reality with hundreds of Styles Thousand Options You WanNa Sofa aquatic blue or indigo. You're insane but they can do that. Love seat in the hottest red inviting coral even bubble gum pink if you Dreamin jober can make it a reality when we got the job chair my wife is like I love joy bird and then we ended up she ended up doing her whole office with Jeb furniture and it was great because they had a design consultants to help her get the perfect designs she loves it each pieces handmade with care and precision using quality hardwood and responsibly sourced materials to fit your exact specifications live limited lifetime warranty guaranteed hundred sixty five day home trial sleep on it similar breaking in if you don't love it your joy board you can return it to see how it can help you design your dream space. Make furniture or not your own at bird dot com slash dolphin create the furniture that brings you joy today at joy dot com slash go dot com slash receiving exclusive offer for twenty five percent off your first order by using code develop and we are also brought to you by stamps dot com look. No one really asked him to go the post office. You gotta the park you gotTa get out of your car. You gotTa bring all your mail in. It's it's a hassle and that's why stamps dot com is awesome and it's one of the most time time saving tools for small businesses it eliminates trips to the post office and saves you money with discount so you can't even get at the post office. STAMPS DOT COM's bombs brings. All the amazing services of the Post Office writes your computer whether you're a small office sending invoices and online seller shipping out products or even a warehouse sending thousands of packages a day stamps dot com can handle it all with E. You just use your computer. You print official postage twenty seven any letter any package any class mail anywhere you you WANNA send wants. Your mail is ready to hand it to your mail carrier. Drop it in the mailbox. It's that simple. It's a no brainer for me. I'm a big Fan. It saves me tons of time and tons of money. You guys got a jump on it right now. Our listeners can get a special offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and a digital scale without any long term commitment. Just GonNA STAMPS DOT COM Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage type in dollop that stamps dot com enter dollop and eh we are brought to you in part by ritual ritual. It's a ladies vitamin situation look rituals essentials have the nutrients most of us. Don't get from enough food on their cleanup zoro forms. No shady additives are ingredients that can do more harm to your body than good too easy easy. Take capsules provide nine not need to support a strong foundation for your health wife uses it my wife. The big thing is for this. My wife is she's to get nauseous ashes when she took vitamins sometimes you point where she'd feel like throwing up and ritual. That's not happening. She just takes boom. She's gone. She's out the door and never see again this. I got to I recommend it. Highly Richard Essential for women is the multi vitamin A re-imagined rituals traceable and transparent for obsessive label readers all rituals IOS Vegan friendly sugar-free non. GMO gluten free and allergen free ingredients and their sources are out there for the whole world to see which is nice because most vitamin places don't don't put on there because they don't have to rituals delivered a subscription Aziza Start and it's easy to snooze. It's only a dollar day. Have all the essential nutrients your body needs delivered every month. No strings attached better health doesn't happen overnight and right now rituals offering our listeners ten percent off during a your first three months fill in the gaps in your diet with essential for women a small step that helps support healthy foundation for your body visit ritual dot com slash talk to start your ritual today. That's ten percent off during a your first three months at ritual dot com slash dollop Sacramento or as I I like to call it the nation's capital. You're listening to the dial up. This is a biweekly American history podcast each week I- Hi owner of Larry the dog you mean the one who hurt Rebecca the driver of electric car men with nipples awful Dave I Anthony Story from American history his friend Gareth Reynolds who has no idea what the topic is going to be about. This is one of the most requested dollops. It's a story everybody knows house. Even me POPs yeah. Hey shall we say real quick just that we have added a second show in London yeah so there's another show in London and we have another podcast. It's pretty much like this podcast. It's called the Dow up England in the UK and the stories are pretty fucking bananas so listen to that may twenty second in eighteen fourteen. How do I know this year of our Lord? Jesus Christ thank you Johann Ludwig Christian Kestensburg was born in Berlin Berg in the Kingdom of Prussia. Okay shall I take a knee now. Known as Germany People Oh Frederick was his dad Frederick was a Lutheran clergyman and little little losses known about the family and eighteen forty two twenty eight year old Johann married nineteen year old Elizabeth Philippe Zimmerman Okay they they had twin girls mathilde lease and Julian Choline who they called Ada cute so far yeah. It's a nice story into the twin daughters cute cute kilo names. The PRUSSIAN. I'm empire was going through a lot of upheaval. Everyone's just SA- fucking shit show what's going on impression proven. I know that so in eighteen forty four the casper headed into the United States where Johann started going by the name Louis Okay sure why why do you look like a little kid is about got to get his picture taken your so happy. I just love that. No one knows what it is yet. They settled. It looks so elated with yourself. They settled near Cincinnati Eh he was he worked as a brewer distiller. One of the twins Matilda died but it's it's a dollar a kid's. It's GonNa die in the first couple of minutes. That's just how I think. That's what twins were in the eighteen forties. You like that means. We got one. I jerk lock in one. It was the bad one whatever they look alike. We're going to call you by the ones name that we liked. Does that okay with you now. Now you're Ada your age. Does that okay yes ADA. Don't act like Matilda. Take the good news. Take the good news Ada. Yes a good good man of manifest destiny was what was happening in America America's were encouraged to move west because of divine providence national superiority and exceptionalism can't thank God that went away fucking assholes so but getting to places like California not easy sure sure I mean it's kind of like what we went through today. Just no weird looks at Harley David Yeah. Am PM's Yup multiple double. The trip took four to six months by wagon last hundred miles. You had to go through the tall steep snowy Sierra Nevada mountains to total nightmare the they're here tonight they'll love the some people just love mountain's timing money that they sit all the way in the back of the way love allocation timing very crucial on this trip you leave too early. You get bogged down my mud. In the spring rains sure leave little eight. You get snowed in share like Edward so the cast Burg's the headed West in eighteen forty six okay loaded up several wagons that party of nine people Louis his wife who is now pregnant. That's when you WANNA get into wagon and head out west sure yeah might just pop out of you. You won't even notice Ada who is now three some other German immigrants an an old Belgian man named hard coop well. I think either way if you're making cuts to the party of nine hargos making cuts as yet we're making cut early argue the wagon driver. Everyone called Dutch Charlie even though he was German that's classic Dutch Charlie Behavior Right. They're not giving a shit so Louis. Louis is six feet. Tall is one hundred eighty pounds. He speaks four languages Jesus yeah okay. It's a big lad for back then plus four languages Yeah Arthur Arthur author. CF mcglashan described him as quote. He has a distinct rapid motive initiation allowed voice and somewhat excited manner of speech in conversing he looks one squarely and steadily in in the eye and appears like an honest intelligent German. It's literally only the last word that makes it weird. Every other part of it is yeah yeah. Of course he looked at you when you talk. That's not abnormal is like he looked at me when I talked for a German. Do you know what I'm saying. So in mid-may one hundred miles west of independence they were joined by two larger groups. The Re Departy James Reed was an Irishman he was heading west because he hoped California's climate we help his wife's terrible migraines. Okay Okay said Oh well I pray it. Recently declared bankruptcy also okay he'd served served during the Black Hawk war with Abraham Lincoln share and they became really really good friends. Lincoln wanted his family to go with the reeds on this journey journey but Mary Todd Lincoln was pregnant and she was like fuck no but meanwhile there were pregnant people on the journey Germans right right. There's that word I got this and they just couldn't do what I did. Jan Don't let it slip out push next together cross them. Give me the clothes pin. It's fair to disgusted by that. They were so close to the Lincoln that Mary Todd Lincoln came down and wave goodbye as they were driving away so the other big group that joined them besides Ed's re Party were known as the Donner Party. What's amazing thing is that I was like I was genuinely started to be like if I don't know this? I will be embarrassed everyone though this one I was like when does it click in okay. There's the family name I've heard before so now Louis was actually not easy to like on the trip trip. He was known for absolutely terrible behavior and a very bad temper plunder native American burial sites on the journey. That's just I mean yeah. You like. We've done enough the idea that you need to just be like prank. It's like dude fuck off. They have stuff. We will take it one emigrant. I'd say hey look I got the flowers yeah FACA late. I'm German. You're right. I love your idea of native American. Burial site is flowers. Everybody likes those one emigrant said Lewis took a buffalo robe from assu grave and probably some flowers a talk by the way I in your mind their fresh graves or or the sewer stopping by putting flowers down every that's the one and I'm thinking my grandpa another person on the trip recalled Lewis quote eccentric antisocial and someone predisposed derangement of the Mind Jesus Christ James Reads needs eldest daughter claimed Lewis hit a little girl who came to play with his daughter and scarred her for the rest of the journey well what sounds like she had a comment like what are you gonNa and it just fucking a roll up on my wagon. It'd be like your daughter a male with a play you can get hit wait. Everything you said sounds okay so far so can she play no. Oh now who legs Gretna Buffalo Robe job so louis and read were constantly fighting read kept confronting Lewis when he beat his wife or neglected his kids is Jesus Christ which apparently happened often so Lewis was like let me be the worst the party reach Wyoming in May eighteen forty-six and Lilburn Boggs to control. He was a former Missouri governor. What's his name Lilburn? BOGGS Lilburn will burn like a cartoon character lilburn will burn burn burn burn. You touch pants too hot. Get a little auburn. That's right so because he was a big fancy ex-governor because already done because he there's a big fancy ex-governor. They started calling it the bogs party okay now they arrived at Fort Laramie Wyoming and June. Now there was this failed lawyer named Lansford Hastings who was huge adventure kind of guy and he wanted to take California from from the Mexicans and establish an independent republic with him as the ruler okay so he's an ambitious secrets big ideas yeah nothing wrong with the big got demand now. He thought if he could convince enough Americans to settle in California the Mexican population would be overwhelmed and it would result in a bloodless revolution which which happened right yeah cool so to get people to go to California hastings made the trip sound super easy but we just ran into this and another one so what is just like Oh. You'RE GONNA love it it. Could it be easier. It's like taking a sledge downhill. It'll be fun and just like people die and you're like what am I a liar. I'm I'm sorry everyone died I really I will. I don't care about the feelings of others he wrote. A book called the Immigrants Guide to Oregon and California Nia was full of absolute bullshit for example. He claimed that travelers would not have to worry about native Americans because quote the desolating ravages of Intertribal war have been the chief causes of now abandoned villages which are covered in human skulls. Wait that's to make people feel better. The real burst does not want to make you go there. No don't mind the skulls it's just black US don't pathway ask and and the Wilderness Committee of that these tribes are such that upon the appearance of white persons at their villages all of the males both old and young immediately flee in the utmost confusion super we're running into each other at an an an an an in name to the surrounding hills and mountains while all females remain and commence of the most doleful moaning and crying in this season's great late so the idea is that that if you're white and you walk into that area the man I don't know what to do and just run around like Benny Hill and the women fall down and start crying. Yes sure that sounds that's pretty logical. Yeah who needs motivated actions so a lot of pioneers were into Hastings Book Including The reeds and Donners Jacob Donner past his copy around to Evanson the group and he would discuss it often one one big lie in the book was about the Hastings Cutoff which is supposed to be a shortcut that hastings had discovered by looking at a map now is that how one finds the shortcut that's right north away so they missed a thing here. Knock real close there Arthur. There's that thing look I can make my finger do this. That'll be easy on foot. Basically the same trip just with feet vit that was easy. Shortcut was actually one hundred twenty five five miles longer longer than the usual route. It's weird shortcut shore. It's not your traditional Shoka and hastings that I've never travelled it okay well. I'm starting to I mean I kinda forgive him now a little bit they really was just like you go that way. Fuck up getting there later now while they were there read ran into an old friend who was a season mountain man and guide all over the West but that's pretty lucky yep and he said that hastings book was fucking bullshit and Hastings these things was a scammer and he'd met him and he had no idea how difficult the journey was and he told read absolutely do not take the hastings cutoff now Dave. Why don't we just go to the next sentence where you tell me that they took the hastings? Has that sound who needs it experienced mountain man when some guy was like you go there you you don't need a guide. I found a piece of paper a guide. What do you need a guide for? He's got knowledge. Take this paper so the men of the parties spoke all night with the experience guide and some tickets warnings and kept going on proven route but others like the reeds donners did did not quote told me to take the regular wagon track and never leave it told them of the great desert and the roughness of the Sierras but he quickly we responded. There's a higher route and it is of no use to take such a roundabout course oh man okay. It's going to be fine yeah with the little knowledge I have. I know it will be fine so the party split up one party on the original route while reading the others including the Casper follow the hastings cutoff. This group was officially now called the Donner Party enjoy joyer. Enjoy your fingers ways. They're serving fingers tonight. I believe you for way too long at the sweetwater river in Wyoming the Donner party was given a letter from hastings good news I found an even shorter out there at Fort Bridgier and it warned of going to Fort Bridgier warned of pop possible Mexican attacks ax and said if if they met him at bridge or he would personally lead them on the hastings cutoff across the desert and mountains okay. That's nice. It's nice but it's total total bullshit in some way for sure they arrived at Fort Bridger on July. Twenty seventh hastings just left to join in another party dammit what they were what they were told was a lot of previous travelers at Fort Bridgier at left letters to warn other emigrants to did not go on the hastings cutoff where the letters but the owners of the Fort didn't want to lose any business so they hit the letters. Oh my God well Ahmad. That's GonNa Affect the cafe business a lot all them letters that say don't go this way. I just ordered a case a coke welcome to survivors cafe so the Donner Party was now seventy four people Jesus Christ east at Weber Weaver Whatever and Utah on August six they found a message from hastings on a stick aw you gotta feel good about that they like cow's worried for a minute but then we got to stick note. Give me a minute. I'm avid twig read. I'm happy with what's happening over here. Good News. There's a letter on a stick. We've got another branch book yeah it. It said the Canyon was impassable and drew a new route over the mountain weight. Okay so if you're going from book to you note on a stick not as good. You're like Oh wait sorry. There's been an update. Thank God we found this note. Stick otherwise we would've been fucked. He also said to send someone to catch up with him so he could show them. The alternative route read into Med went ahead and caught up with hastings okay and then he talked hastings into writing back to the Donner camp sure to talk to these people but hastings stings a little ways out had second thoughts and said he felt really bad about a banning the other group he was leading so he just showed read the route. I guess on the ground that's good. That'll that works. It's just like drawing up a we're in there and you're fine. You're this and then you just keep going. You'll figure it out. Just just keep going down but the route was so vague. That read just ended up picking his own trail well. That's not good right now. It was fine now okay. Why actually no it not to be fine well? You don't know that I'll be lies. What if everybody you? It's all fine now while they were waiting now while they're waiting even more people join the Donner Party was now eighty seven people. She's Christ now. They all headed out on reads path summer day no that he's he's just sort of like Improv path now. I don't think providers I think he came back and said it's this way so he's just like a really good talk with Eh. It's fine. It's right over here. Let's go this way summer's now over. That's a good sign. One young traveller dried up indict of consumption. Lewis's wife gave birth to a baby boy. That's a good time he was named Luis Junior. It took them three weeks to reach Salt Lake instead of the couple of days that hastings had promised him that's good so today's three weeks sure water the water there was undrinkable undrinkable so they had to gather water and grasp before heading into the desert which delayed the more okay hastings said the desert was about forty miles wide. He said the desert was forty forty miles wide okay eighty miles white okay within two days. The Cattle Ellen Horses started dying. They couldn't pull the wagon some broke free and ran off. Those are the the by the way it feels like that's the last good moment of the episode episode. Just general vibe goes like this. The last time we feel happiness for those cows go go yeah learn and be free without their horses. The read family had to abandon most of their wagons and they had to carry what they could now walking through the desert so I we at the point where you're like that hitching son of a bitch point civil pitch. No this is great. This is really close. Short cut super short really close off the Casper gues also had to abandon a wagon each wants across the Salt Lake Valley they took inventory and found they didn't have the supplies to make it to California -fornia well. That's a problem so they sent to mend ahead. Get help from Sutter's fort in Sacramento where they found own gold here you go. You probably expected bigger applause on that. You were like this is a beer time. No I think all of these people are bored et Cetera for they all went there. It probably went on like three field trips there as a kid and they're like okay Agai- gold okay good gold easy my dear what you say fuck someone John Sutter Johnson fucking we'll get to that later. That's a that's a different episode but let's just put it and I think John Sutter worse than Larry The on September Thirteenth Party can't that place called a read called the mad woman woman camp and he's just riffing right. He's got no idea what's going on. We read that diarrhea because quote all the women in the the camp were mad with anger yeah but not because of the location because of the experience boy. What is it about this area that makes women go Kuku Okubo Nana's like we're dying? Here's something which by you we are. I just Kim the wives dislike do fucking Watt. Hey guess my hasty fucking who guess what's GonNa make all the wives happier naming it after that God you guys are so fucking crazy. I'm calling this mad wife Alex. Hey guys I know you're pissed but I wanted to let you know kind of an Omar's moment. The in honor on September twenty fifth apart party finally completed pleaded the hastings cutoff told you tell you a quick. She tells you be easier. Sorry your family's dead so much closer when we were it took sixty days way way longer than it should. Have you know sometimes shortcuts aren't shorter. I don't know if you guys know that but they're not always so now. They're back on the original route insanely behind schedule. They're back on the original route good work. That's amazing. Tensions ran high between members of the Party. The read family teamster and the graves family teamster got into an argument as their wagons became tangled together. Well that'll get them. untangled read tried to make peace doing the men and pulled out his knife to cut the tangled ropes on the wagons one of the teamsters curse at read and hit read on the head with his whip handle repeatedly giving read a wide wide deep cuts on his face wake he whipped him. He hit the handled pistol whip. I'm familiar with a hit him with the handle the whipping we're panel like that'd be demeaning beating. Did you not respect affect me but my whip you little bitch. This isn't looking Chand. Get hurt not much but it's really are out the I hi it's volleyball's. You deserve the other end. Stab me like a man baby so then that was happening so Reid's wife rushed into help. Oh that's GONNA help his case. Leave my husband alone. I'M GONNA beat him further with the but Louis hitter yeah so then the teamster step toward the wife and read thought the teamster was going to attack his wife so he's in whip cussed by the yeah not sure what's going on so he stabbed the teamster in the chest Jesus Christ simpler places to start with that move the teamster bled it out pretty quick and died all the guy who was just hitting a guy in the face with the handle of okay demeaning meaning we look we all have weird favorites teamster to was my hero. Even though it was self defense many in the party turned against read but it wasn't really self defense it was like it was Kinda. High Enough Defense Sorta he'd been beaten with the Butt of a whip so it was a little woozy but then he was like don't touch her because the fuck you I was going to hug her. I people didn't like the reads because they were wealthy and start out with a ton of supplies and animals plus read was stubborn and arrogant so the group met and discussed it some wanted to read to the law wants to reach California. Okay others wanted months away. Yeah others others wanted immediate. Justice Lewis hated him in no read one Lewis hated him and wanted him Hong immediately in front of his friends and family income on. I let it be horrible dollars. Should we do it. We should do it in front of his friends and Family Sapa this dinner and then we'll make them eat them Goulash. That'll teach them one of the parties that Lewis began to quote convert a wagon tongue into makeshift gallows almost immediate weight so says some other German German psycho patches. Here's like a bit of that. I'll make a gallows. No we haven't signed off on anything just yet hang God worry. I made an iron maiden Aden got a whole setup over here didn't take too long either so it was pretty quick sweet how long before we go just I just think that would drain all his blood of this and then we feed our. I'm not sure I made a lot of stuff. There's a lot of options so many options we could do them. All we do one. I don't know let's there's make a day of it. That's what I'd say in front of his friends and family. They have to beat out for that pot. I want to see the look and his daughters is hot. Autism is open. Don't show them what I've done. A PA fuck with me instead they decided to banish Reed and they allow them to have a single single horse and that was it the gallows guys like I mean okay. What do I I said Yeah give them a horse? Good call who needs to severance package most saw this as a death sentence but read just road nonstop until he caught up with the donners who the two days ahead. What are you doing shits five back there? Let's tussle up hustle up on with you they send it to race and we need to beat them. The magic catching up with the Donner party being like few. I'm home again so read another man from the Donner Party road ahead to Sutter's there's Ford with a letter asking for team of oxen and supplies to survive until California on October seventh. Someone noticed the the Belgian man hard coupe was blessed gap doesn't help his name in either was missing. I mean I'm not gonna I pretty much forgotten about heart group so he's been missing for me for quite a while. Now he was in Lewis as wagon and Lewis said he had no idea where he was you. All BENJI named Belgian named hard goop just walking around lost so someone backtracked several miles and found around hard coop on the side of the trail. I it all halo going. His feet. Were bloody race so we'll get a bleeding so swollen. They were split open. It's they've got a real kind of a BIF- affiliated quality. Now he said Lewis had kicked him out of his wagon to lighten the load and left him on the side of the road days before all right. Now I like argue now poor little argue with his penguin feet and flapping out about their he's set just stay here but I will so get over here here so it's your feet they really are. It's like watching block so he brings them back to the group but no family would take our coop in their wagon had so they just left him again. Yes we sure did Hargopal. Fortunately yes assets so I know I remember when I found you. You were very dehydrated. Were stationed this yes and I oh I can't wait once again to have a Belgian pen. They let well the whole awful hold on their hardware. Let me let me do some of the awful I just. I'm so crazy I don't I underst- I I mix up pancakes and of course yes yes yes. I've ever really needed jump in right here right now of course park no no no no no and by the way that would be called a hard group Hug and no and let me tell you I think you're fantastic and I love everything about what's going on in the New Year. I think your feeder tastic. I really do going to scub- don't point them near me. What I'm trying to say is that unfortunately after pitching some of the families about taking their wagon? Unfortunately there's just no takers so we're going to have to twenty wagons. It would would appear to be so but again I mean I can't I can't I can't jammie into one of them. I can't let's just not my role here. My hands are tied. I can't do oh anything so sadly. This is kind of a second goodbye. Why yeah why wow well just because well? I don't like the attitude shift fucking Shit asses come back from me argues targeting argue. I'm I'm not gonNA end onto sour note with you because you're a bunch of fucking should ask is fucking dying each other fucking well well well. Someone's English is coming along suddenly okay okay all right all right way tried and I was very nice to you and here take these grains. I'm rubbing my foot. Dust you leave her alone. That's ADA. She's so much better than that Petra Tilda report so he just died out in the middle of nowhere just died out in the middle of nowhere. They're like okay bye. Hey we can catch Ya apo- you can now die further from those spot urine before which I think is really Nice for you on October fourteenth. Thank Mrs Whoa fingers husband was missing okay. Everyone assumed Lewis killed him for his money if so as busy Louis what I didn't you another fucking Guy I am ninety percent I did not what does that even mean so now. We're not percents yet but they didn't do any proof so on October sixteenth the Donner Party arrived in the Sierra Nevada's. That's when the front axle of the Donner Party wagon broke and George cut his hand very badly making a new one. It's slowly began to gangrene. Is this the expression the wheels coming off because that's pretty quickly deteriorated well. We lost a wheel. He's got gangrene. My God it was five minutes ago. The donners starter Carter lagging behind the party by now many families had lost most of their cattle to starvation or native American thieves. Food and supplies were decreasing rapidly in early November. The Donner Party moved with urgency share hoping to make the steep crossing before the snow came my God yes Patrick Breen quote wrote the weather was clear but a large circle around the moon indicated an approaching storm eight inches of snow fell that night. Give me fine. It's not not good. This hasn't been read arrived at Sutter's fort over weeks. He put together a group of three men. Many horses food and supplies were healed. The Donner Party would be when the party arrived at Truckee Lake in northeast California. The snow was several feet deep. They decided it to set up camp around the lake and hold on through the winter. They set up camp right near the lake well yeah there's actually abandoned abandoned cabins around on there for whatever reason why makes more sense so some of them took the cabins. There's just had to make shelters. It's kind of like the beginning of a reality show. Everyone picks rooms. I accept your life depends on some made lean-to's Louis despite his lean-to's airy lean in something up against Weber contrary or another building and then you cover it and that's what you're in relaxed survivor expert. You're the one who watches which is naked and afraid. I'll just watch it. I'm naked. I watch that show and I'm terrified. The only way to watch that show is naked and afraid to watch it outside on an IPAD in the cold naked the poor Jose. He's with me Asshole so Louis despite despite his injured an infected foot built this shed for his family okay. The Donner Party settled on the other side. Is that kind of like a dig at argued like he's. He's got a fucked up foot and he's like I'm building a shelter. Remember why he got the fucked up foot today say he just fucked it up. Somehow so the party said on the on the other side of the lake and another cabin snow starts falling harder and harder snow chips are growing tolerant taller. The wet firewood is impossible to burn. She feels like you're using hero. Yeah food went on uncooked food. Cook does not the right thing to sing and food was not cooked things to eat were roasted mice ice and a fatty glue like broth from boiling cow heights. Oh by God you can either eat mice or drink glue. They are the options yeah fucking a welcome to winter. I'd rather be hard coop at this point in December snowshoes bunch of made snowshoes out of the remaining cattle hides they make seventeen and they gave them to the strongest and healthiest theus members of the party. The hope was could make it over the mountains and get help at a settlement okay so they set out with six days of rations okay on on December seventeenth to return to the lake exhausted. It's not good news at all. We just left we left. It's really hard to get up. There and the shoes are ruined so five women nine men and a twelve year old walked on that twelve year old is like I wanna die. I'm ready to be a foot four can boring. Yes I see the snow fucking inch shut up dad. How great would it be to be able to take your twelve year old that put them in this situation for just ten minutes? Why don't you go to that upset about the mood you use your imagination todd and just think of stuff? You're out here in wonderful nature. Take it in gene. We're dying. Fuck Fuck. You Dad yeah. I said Fuck You dad. I've been gene hazings up because it made sense. It was a shortcut. It was only one hundred twenty eight miles out of our way. I'm going to your I doubt that probably maybe not have happened. Love You son in the summer twentieth like a breakthrough for you. The twentieth they reached Yuba Bottoms Nobody Uber but was at the original Namur you'd be okay but some snow but some snow shears had now gone missing. Patrick Breen wrote quote tough times at the end of the Journal entry for the day. You know you're a tough EH tough times but not discouraged our hopes are God amen aw man how Great Guy Right now God is great fuck you the idea that God God won't let us die no he will. It'll be you remember hard. Coop flapping on the rocks like a newborn penguins yeah. It's over on December twenty first. The rations ran out Charleston say Christmas Charleston was two weeks ahead back to camp and he sat down the snow pulled out his pipe and there's last tobacco and told the others to go on without him man man. That's by the way that's pretty. That's a pretty great way to go to just be like I'm just going to smoking die. Go ahead. I'm just going to have a bit of a pipe and then I'll just have a good day. It's his final words. were quote. Yes I am coming soon. He was never seen again. It's five days later on December twenty sixth La- The group was completely lost frostbitten. They drank melted snow. The men wanted to return to Donald by the way the men wanted water it also melted snow technically water the molecules separate uh sort of friends so the men wanted to return to donner camp the women angrily opposed demanding that they find help silly rationality then they all became so hungry they started hallucinating eating and then someone suggested they eat one of them. WHOA so I have an idea so they are tripping my ideas? We eat frank because I fucking hungry. This is why we should've kept Har- group around by the way you cannot get offended in the story in this audience right now so they're desperate and they talk about it and they agreed to draw straws and decide who will be eat what what what what what about the Doodoo smokers Piper died. Why not go back and be like this dude? He's still ready those five days ago. They walked away from him. Ah Timelines off obviously yeah. I mean okay so he's Christ surprised. Drawing straws existed that early but they couldn't do it. They couldn't bring themselves to do it. They couldn't cut the small one yeah so they decided to wait until one of them died and then they would just eat that person within within three days. Patrick Dolan died and was eating. I Jesus Christ Dave. This is the slow down three people died. Patrick was eaten first because he wasn't related to anyone anyone idea of some sort of categorizing of this okay so they hadn't gone on an here I want. I want them to know how to eat them. I that's awesome congratulations. What did you guys I? It's awesome what a a history teacher and he came here tonight and I was like you know my podcasts about. He's like no and now he's GonNa get eaten. What Turnaround Cinderella story so the Patrick they were so you were Dave? It says a lot about where we are that you just said they patrick. It's actually my uncle's name which is hilarious yeah. Why's he leaving? You can't get far old man. I'll see you on the rock-hard goop yeah so they scared him on sticks over a fire at least a nice way to do it. Are you going to do it yeah. Tuck turn tournament rotate them. Patrick look good before but he looks great now. It was a great guy to which they think is going to really help. I really liked him. I've never had a connection like this to the food I'm going to I've never known them this well. I had a chicken name Bob that I used to have sex with. This is different. What's that what was the middle? Maybe hallucinating you better be. You never all righty. They didn't look at each other as they ate Patrick. Shame shame yeah. It's awkward. That's a hard meal well. What are you GonNa do like fuck guys? You guys try there. Dipping sauce good you feel pure. Shame Shame Anthony Bourdain gene. No no no no no no get more aglow. Give me more glue workload pounded Dow with they also didn't look at each other when they cooked and ate twelve year old alum Lem you'll Murphy Jesus Christ but that's like veal. You know what I mean so this location would later be called decamp of death finally finally a good name so the made from the bodies did not met last that much longer and they began eating their shoes. What wait a minute who goes human human does shoe you go shoot a human what the fuck well that was? You're probably eat the other things we could since Patrika the teenager dead and in us our shoes it really go for another Patrick. Though of course we all right. We're not doing it. Let's dive Retro Causes Now. Everyone ate their shows. Not the Nike all right so much suggested killing and eating their to native American guides Luis Listen Salvador by the weight of course of course of course white people like should we eat the navigation should be crazy but another man was appalled by this and he warned the to native Americans who ran away into the forest there we go. We've got a real win-win that guys the next to get eaten by the way Lewis Lips eat dips Louis from a nearby Milwaukee village but a few days later they keep wandering and they find Luis and Salvador dying in the snow the guy who the first guy who suggested they should eat people shot them without hesitation and then they sliced allies and dried Luis and Salvador packing meat packing January seventeenth the snowshoeing group eating a lot of people on January seventeenth snowshoe group reached Lewis Listen Salvador's Milwaukee village. Oh no hey we haven't seen them. I have your son right here. The they were so thin the Milwaukee thought they were ghosts and ran away by the way right move entirely a. r. and run yes always run from white people yeah for sure white people but they show up gaunt and fully your friends take off. Hey No we're not the regular assholes we're desperate so soon they realized that these were starving people and they actually cared for them until some recovered. They didn't have much mostly just had a cornbread but they shared it with these people have been eating friends at shoes. They'll take corn bread after week. Take to native Americans led William Eddie to Johnson's ranch which is about fifteen miles away the settlers at Johnson's ranch were absolutely horrified lied when they saw Eddie and they quickly formed a party to go help they followed Eddie's bloody footprints to the ME Walk Village and this is very clear actually it's a clear path very clear we call this group and he wrote an SOS letter to the Magistrate of Sacramento who then wrote one to the magistrate of San Francisco but he's really passing the buck. Can you do think home during all this at truckee lake things had been super fucked people were dying of starvation Lewis Louis Casper junior died Joseph Reinhardt died and right before he confessed to killing Mr Wolfing healed wolfing chairman and blamed Louis. That's a good that's a good way to go out to be like well. We have closure at least we have closure now. Reid is still read is still out. I'm trying to get people to go help sure he hasn't given up hope I rescue attempt failed and he was now in San Francisco enlisting volunteers he raised fifteen thousand fifteen hundred by supplies but on February fifth the first rescue party left Johnson's ranch as rescuers in San Francisco kept organizing at centers for John Sutter offered three dollars to anyone who had joined the relief parties yeah eh where to go all the way there John and a glass of water I mean melted snow aredent headed to Napa Napa Sonoma to recruit so obviously ever clearly everyone's like no no no. I don't want to to a future wine country and he just goes on a tour. This is also good to have a reasonably. I'm here to actually my friends are in trouble but I actually want to really nail this down. This is that's good to Pino eight MMA Scotto a little too Ferdie. I'm not crazy about that. It's a little too sweet yes soon. I should get back but I really WANNA. I WANNA I wanNA lock this down. Oh crackers yum yum yum yum just spit on my IPAD. The a rescuer quote they gave the alarm that people would all die without assistance. It was two weeks before any person would consent to go. Oh my God that's pretty bad at die. If we get up there all right. We're just stop. We're out. Finally we concluded we would go or die trying for not to make an attempt to save them would be disgraced us and California as long time lasted two weeks later like Oh our right. This'll be bad usually pay do this on February nineteenth. The first relief arrived at Donner Donner Party's campsite unquote. No living thing except ourselves wasn't site. Oh No we raised allowed. Hello Hello her friends. Then we saw a woman emerge from a hole in the snow how Oh everything's on fire as we approached coached her several others made their parents to in like manner coming out of the snow we're dying. We're the snow people depots they were gone with famine and I never can forget the horrible ghastly sight they presented the first woman spoke in a hollow voice very much agitated she said are you from California or do you come from Heaven God. It goes with the idea that you're in the state whether your two options are Ella -fornia or heaven there's now at between in what is that the clouds are the guy I would actually say California's heaven and that's it's why Dave Anthony is running for governor of this state the great state telephone my campaign slogan Logan is let's eat the Patrick's down with the Patriarchy so the first relief rescued twenty three people and left thirty one behind. That's all they could bring out was twenty twenty-three well. I mean good Lord. Talk about lining up for you know. Can I go with the first with the first group. No Okay uh all right Lewis's wife and daughter were among the rescued. Louis remained the camp because of his injured foot Ada died died in route Tamsin Donner would not leave her dying husband side. She wouldn't leave George who has the gangrene share. Ah I rescue left her but she sent her children away to be saved but a storm came with the rescuer would take in the donner children so he left the kids in Lewis's cabin on the other side of the lake just the two of them. I think there's more than two okay but it's just all the kids in one cabin yeah. She put him in that cabin. He's like I can't take in the snow so good luck. Children won't go well see later by the way don't play with this guy's daughter he hits them. Oh she's dead. Never remind ono play whether then too so hard play with the dead the friend who soon so Tamsin became worried why and a man visited the other side visited visited the cabins on the other side looking to see if anyone knew if the Donner Joel children had reached safety over there found the Donna children and Lewis's cabin and unquote witnessed such scenes of horror and suffering that he believed their lives were in danger of death more violent than starvation. What so I think he's hitting them? Oh Shit can't imagine I mean that's all I can okay so Elisa Donner quote. I remember being awakened while there were I. I remember being awakened while they were by two little arms clasped suddenly and tightly around me and I heard Francis say no she shall not go with you. You want to kill her nearest casper the man with the bushy hair what is going on right now in limping past are sleeping place it stopped and said something about taking me away with them which so frightened my sisters that they believe my life endanger and would not let me move beyond their reach while we remained in that dungeon we spoke in whispers suffered as much as the starving children in Joseph's time and we're more afraid than Daniel and the deadlines so I think he wanted to eat them. Oh what he was trying to take one to eat eat eat and and the rest are like Oh. You're not eating her yeah and so. They were just holding onto each other to try to keep but that's I grew up like that. I mean that's just horrible fucked the United States here one of you to come with me. Let's go outside and play axe they were but they were rescued. By the second relief again. Tamsin refused to go she stayed with George. The third relief was led by William Eddie and William Foster oster who came hoping their sons. We're live when they arrived. Miss Murphy said a single word to them dead Miss Murphy. How about opener about a low dead dead? Oh hello both of the boys had been cannibalized Jesus Christ. This is Murphy. Who's twelve year old was the one that died earlier was one of the first I did the camp to cannibalize a body but she accused Louis saying he'd grown impatient wanting the boys to die took little George foster to bed one night and and killed him by morning hanging his carcass on the wall like a slab of game fuck sake both any and foster were outraged but fostered word then saw that Miss Murphy was out of her fucking mind and bland and believed Lewis Claims of innocence Eddie on the other hand swore or he would kill Lewis once all this was over? Just then Tamsin Donner stumbled into the cabin walking miles eddy in foster offered to take her and her children yeah but once she saw children are gone and alive in good hands she returned George he died a few weeks later when the third relief mission was completed they assumed George Samuel Donner and Mrs Murphy had died. Sorry sorry it must Tamsin just to change so George Thompson and and Mrs Murphy had died. I think that's all that was left up. That's all they left there. That left a way that left Thompson and Louis going survivors. Okay so there's George Donner Miss Murphy three times and then Louis those are the survivors non thought Lewis was worth risking their life for finally and Tamsin had already turned down three chances to leave so they weren't going to go back for so they waited for the weather clear up a month later and then they went and this was the fourth relief and they just saw this as a salvage operation to get all the belongings hey on April seventeenth fourth relief arrived at Donner's family the camp outside there was a kettle filled with human flesh Jesus Christ leftovers George Donner's Buckingham exam sandwiches tomorrow. George Donner's body was covered in a sheet his head butchered and brains removed in that skull get in this goal goal. That's where the candies talking now. Let's stop everything you're saying. Candy is Tamsin was nowhere in sight. When the group got to Lewis's Pad Crib Ebb they saw him with Tammy's body preparing a meal of human lungs and livers Jesus Christ? Dude Lewis was the sole survivor all around the camp. We're on a couple pounds. Shake off that Christmas way to my right around the holidays the only one who is more of your family than you I ordered a Pentagon good Loyd Santa gave me stuff and Mass Doug Lewis also had two hundred and twenty five dollars worth of gold from from Tamsin in his waistcoat so the rescue party interrogated Lewis must have quite territory yeah. I'm sure tell me about all the body parts everywhere. I don't know what the J. he admitted that he'd eaten Tamsin. Samson does that to start that album but he said he did not murder. He waited for her to die of natural. 'cause I was a good guy about it. He confessed to taking the daughter's good. It's the Gold Bundler stolen silks jewels firearms but he said Tam Senate asked him to gather the donners goods and give it to her children. well almost must unable twenty first the fourth relief left with Lewis on April twenty nine th eighteen forty seven exact almost exactly a year from their departure the the last member of the Donner Party hobbled into sutter's fort and was reunited with his wife who aided immediately eight him of the eighty nine immigrants forty five survived thirty. Two of them were children. The reads and brains were the only families survive without a single loss on average. The women survived months longer than the men okay that doesn't have to be we don't have did didn't make gender lines. William Etty started searching for Lewis to kill him but James we talked talked him out of it. Tamsin donner gained a cult following and became the heroine of the Donner Party her loyalty George and I love for children were commended my men and in women everywhere not so much for Lewis Casper interesting what happened news of the Donner Party spread across the nation of newspapers and by word of mouth. The cannibalism was shocking. Though many members of the Donner Party eight people Louis Kiss Berg took the heat because he was really eating people know we'll try to macaroni at the end of the buffet really good try him with a biscuit. You will not regret it. He was known as quote the savage eight humans for pleasure journalists dubbed him the Human Cannibal and report and he murdered Tamsin Donner as fact the human cannibal. I know no shit. Eh like this this Cannibal here man. It sounds good. I know but it's really good extra word it works. It's redundant. It's one more word art works. I got paid by words. A rumor began that Lewis went to bars and bragged about eating people what he was at eh bars like he goes every like Apache era Murphy. Excuse me fucking great this go eat. It's people once you start. You're like this is fucking awesome. People like I did it up in the mountains uh-huh but now I'm just like all the time so I hang out at the beach lots and when people blocked by them and I just dig a chunk other leg or whatever and they can't get it back because it's dumb thome you know what I mean. I'll take another shot so nice. Bar is taking a shot of Flesh Human Cannibal mechanical the pool get up. Uh The rumor was he was going to bars saying human was more delicious than California. No you hold on there. Sir sure imagine like and I kinda I I'm not trying to. I'm just going to say his head space the head space I am now the guy who eats humans. I have now been that's when people see me they go. That's the humans okay I'm GONNA lean in. That's what I'm GONNA do. I'm so sick of being categorized as a freak that I'm now not no longer. Was it survival rival based solely. This is actually the better meet. This is the other white meat this is I'm telling you we should get like people arm yeah and just raise people and we should ship that out to Oregon and see if they like it right by the way the horror people feel over that in Oregon well the note like if we were to eat people have been fields like being. I let us out yeah yeah I like. What do we have that we can see that they just don't speak English but they are out there like hey? There's some beautiful cow ranch really gorgeous. It looks so happy yeah so they also said the rumor was that he said towns liber was the sweetest morsel guy who's trying to own this and and then he said and then he looks at me and he goes was the sweetest morsel everyday face which is what brings me to my cookbook how to Egypt House the the best media of ever had have you ever had a Powell chilly philly appealing so Lewis was tried ride for murdering six immigrants but acquitted because there's no evidence well I mean good Lord except for all sitting there like there's nothing uh-huh no evidence you say when we're going to but his reputation is a disaster I wonder why he sued a rescuer for slander and one but only received a dollar in damages and I had to pay court fees ranch in eighteen forty forty eight John Sutter hired Louis as a captain on a merchant ship people to follow this guy for sure just seven months later Heinrich Doc Heinrich Lionheart wrote quote finally sutter decided to replace Mister Kessler G- because so many passengers complained that the boat traveled so slowly early down the river that when they ran out of food the captain who is accustomed to human flesh might kill passengers who were asleep and eat them my own feeling is that sutter invented this story. Sorry I completely understand when imagine where would you sleep. Eat your arm. That's going slow now. I'm your Spaghetti. So after this Lewis worked in cinema for General Vallejo before for running a boarding house at Sutter's Fort Okay in eighteen fifty want he bought a hotel in Sacramento stop. This reinvention is probably not not going well and the rumors started in skies just earring whispers everywhere he goes people should stop it one time for the year enough. Lord rumors started in Sacramento that he was running a restaurant uh-huh. I mean look this is what you eat a bunch of people sorry. That's going to stick with you. He didn't survive you've yeah but it felt like he was revelling a little more than everyone else. I mean. If you're last man standing sorry you're just going to be the guy like he saw the hotel but it was destroyed by a fire the night before the purchase was official so he got no money no. Let's let's not feel too bad for this. fucking no known cause of the fire next he ran the Phoenix brewery and advocate worth fifty thousand dollars aw but it was destroyed by a flood okay he was broke again in eighteen sixty six Lewis moved to Calistoga and became a partner in a distillery life went well until his wife died in eighteen seventy seven they had yeah you know what we're just GONNA go ahead and do without a burial take care take care of the figure the best way to save on some of these commission cremation fees. You're talking about is is to we will get rid of it on our own. Last thing we want to do is take a plot or anything like that. We know away that she will be with us forever and not you sums not sitting right classic her Nag Nag Nag Nag Nag Nag Nag even from dummy so they had four children and in two of them were intellectually disabled okay. CF mcglashan was writing and writing a history of the party said of Lewis's children quote Bertha and Augusta Gusta live with the father at Brighton Sacramento County. Both these children are hopelessly idiotic well. There's that empathy we've read about the time Bertha's twenty six and has never uttered an intelligible word Augusta's fifteen and possesses only slight traces of intelligent both are subject to frequent and violent spouses or epileptic fits the state provides for insane but not idiots they they scream so loudly while going into their spasms that he cannot dwell near other people he therefore lives isolated in a plain little house back of his brewery here he lives the saddest loneliest most pitiable creature on the face of the earth. What the fuck now you feel bad for him? Yeah I do feel bad for him. Well not for him for the kids. It's not good for anybody but yeah sure so. When Lewis was sixty fifty five years old he was living near Sacramento and this author mcglashan found him and he said Lewis was afflicted by quote misery and desolation tormented by enduring during accusations that he was a cannibal? The writer got well to be fair. It's not even an accusation well but they're saying he keeps doing it. I mean Oh oh yeah for sure well again. I mean you eat thirty people. Let's see now you're doing it. He didn't eat thirty people. You eat some people he had a good amount of people what I know about thirty though look dude he won he won. Sorry sorry this. This is the downside delivering that is actually what he said when they came to rescue them long motherfucker Ooh ooh millionaires right away Dave how long until there's a reality show of people eating other people for weight gain five years the Max the biggest winner it's eating other people's so the writer got Elisa Isaac Donner and Louis together when he when they saw each other Lewis dropped to his knees and swore he had not murdered elisas mother other Tamsin Elisa said she believed him and that she felt no ill will but people still don't believe Lewis and saw him as evil personified Lewis told Oh mcglashan quote that camp has been the one burden of my life. Yeah I mean you get the place where you ate a bunch of people yeah. It's a fucking burden. Wherever sometimes I feel like it defined me I do? I know it's Wacky. Wherever ever I have gone people have cried stone him stone him? It's tough for sure that that's tough. That's tough mortification disgrace disaster. Her and unheard of misfortune have followed an overwhelming. I often think the Almighty is singled me out among all the man on the face of the earth in order to see how much hardship suffering and misery a human being can bear well then it takes a rip off a thigh loses descendants change their family name when they settled in the Napa area today. There's only one person claimed claiming to be related to Casper on file. He spent the rest of his life poor and died in eighteen ninety five at a hospital for the poor. His grave is unknown and unmarked to this day but if you go over his grave you can quietly here. Why is the grave empty deep? There's just a Napkin with a bunch of barbecue sauce on it. Yeah Jesus Christ. I feel not hungry. I mean you know when you when you watch a movie that you watched like us the love when you're a kid and you watch it as a grownup and you're like I didn't even understand the movie yeah like there's so many parts that I'd be like laughing understand but I feel like this. I know what the daughter Party is but I wonder if they still teach it in school. I do not think they do do they. Do they're busy teaching the new page. The value of it is is like the hardship of travel but it's also more of an idiot taking the wrong path story than it is yeah Sancha know what it is is. It's the complications from doubling down on something that you know is probably stupid which is kind of based government but would you be able to eat a person a little. I mean if I'm starving and you're you're fucking dead meat thing. I'm GONNA EAT YA. I'M GONNA fucking Cook up to eight the guy if you have any doubt. I hope my dog eats me if she goes bad and he's he's you know he's got to live. Would you want Jose you. If you had to survive. I know that he would I laid down one time. I took it one time. I took a nap and he was eating me like my arms jobs open. He was like I didn't feel pulse. Those are veins. I've been sleeping. Ten minutes didn't seem yourself. I thought I'd just eating foot. Put up my crazy. If you and I were in this situation who do you think would he do because I know one hundred percent one hundred percent you'd eat me before you take the whip and maybe with a blunt whip Dave now. I think there's a fruit tree shut up. I want steak. I like me. I'll do that after okay it said do you WanNa blow job now. Jesus Christ. It's not that's not the story I heard when I was a kid. It's better to you here when you're a kid that just fucking went up on the hill the wrong time and each other. They don't know they they don't tell the back story of they went the wrong way and this fucking mountain full of the classic Morons it goes like I wanNA own California California. It's the first and other people I know better. Let's go the wrong way and then of course the women are nuts. They hate this. It's a hate it when we stop stop and ask for directions US man. We'll figure it out well. Wow that was the that was the one that won for long durations on a great story from your town. What a great journey congratulations relations? Why are you clapping? Come on get your fucking hands. The thank Jesus Christ. I was GONNA do a different one but it's it's going to scare the fuck got you saw just save it for what it's bad. It's bad you're all going to be fucked. It's all all right fine. Okay thank you guys very much for coming out. We really appreciate it Sacramento. Steve Fury's mother. Thank you guys reappraised Janet. The sources for this episode are or the Diarrhea Patrick Breen one of the Donner Party by Patrick Breen. It's his own diarrhea said that the different stars above the Harrowing Saga of the Donner Party ready from two thousand and fifteen by Dan James Brown the expedition of the Donner Party and it's tragic fate from nineteen ninety seven by Elizabeth sorry all right Elizabeth Donner Houghton the emigrant's guide to Oregon and California by Leonard Hastings it's unfortunate emigrants narratives of the Donner Party by Kristen Johnson History of the daughter Party a tragedy of the Sierra by ICF MIC Glam from the desk of tricky cf mcglashan his letters to Elisa Houghton Donner Party survivor ever investigative report of a massacred wagon train truckee Tahoe adventures and a more by cf mcglashan desperate passage they don't Donald Parties Perilous Journey West by Ethan Rarick Encyclopedia of frontier biography volume two. Go by. I Dan the best land under heaven the Donner Party in the age of manifest destiny by Michael Wallace and the following doing articles how Lewis Casper was branded. The killer Cannibal the Donner Party by Michelle Deborah Zach on mental floss. How Lewis Louis Casper was branded killer cannibal? I think I just did that. One tracking down the truth of what happened to the Donner party Los Angeles Times by a Anna Asia Panga Charles F. Glasson truckee patriarch in the Sun by Mark McLaughlin beyond cannibalism the true story of the Donner Party National Geographic by Simon War ow and then a ton of a ton of

Justice Lewis Party Lewis Louis California Donner Party Lansford Hastings Casper Patrick John Sutter Donner Donner Party Donner camp Hastings Cutoff Mary Todd Lincoln United States Casper George Patrick Breen Arthur Arthur Tamsin Donner Post Office
The Donner Party Pt. 1: Westward Bound

Survival

50:44 min | 1 year ago

The Donner Party Pt. 1: Westward Bound

"The following episode contains descriptions violence starvation and animal cruelty that some listeners may find offensive listener. Discretion is advised especially for children under under thirteen. The heat was unbearable. James read kicked his horse's flanks urging it onward the the grey. Mare glaucous had become his most reliable companion on this long trek. He hated pushing the animal so hard but right now speed was paramount. James had been separated from the train for twenty hours after volunteering to ride ahead head and find water for his family he had found the water but thought bought him little piece of mind. This desert was harsh and unforgiving forgiving. His family was counting on him to guide them through it his heart sword when he saw the familiar wagon train on the horizon he had made it. His family would not die of thirst tonight but when james reached his family's wagons his heart thank again all but one of the oxen were gone as well as the teamsters he had hired to watch over them. His wife margaret told him him not to worry the teamsters had simply been driving the oxen ahead to water them and would be back soon. James must have passed them on his way back back. They waited all day long for the teamsters and their animals to return they never did after twenty four hours of waiting james picked up his youngest child and they started walking through the burning desert as they trudged ahead following the tracks of the wagons ahead of them. James cursed under his breath. He should have never left. His family unattended with most of their livestock gone. James ames didn't know if they'd survive the rest of their journey west. Welcome to survival apar- cast original on your host irma blanco and i'm tim johnson every monday. We'll take you inside incredible true bruce stories of life or death situations you can find episodes of survival and all other podcasts originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream survival for free on spotify just open the app and type survival in the search bar. This is our first episode on the donner party. A caravan of american eric settlers bound for california in the fall of eighteen forty six this wagon train consisted of around ninety hopeful settlers including leading men women pets livestock and infants their perilous route took them two thousand five hundred miles across north america america through two desserts and into a gap in the sierra nevada now known as donner pass the trip should have taken four four months in the end it dragged on for a year exacerbated by bad weather and rapidly dwindling food stores at park cast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and instagram at podcast on twitter at podcast network and if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review wherever you're listening. It really does help for americans. The eighteen forties was the age of manifest best destiny this philosophy that white settlers how to write to settle and tame the wild land of america swept its way across the still a young united states though settlers had already spread from philadelphia and new york all the way to iowa and missouri the land west the rocky mountains was still wild and relatively untamed an enticing prospects for european americans who craved a lush new land. I'm to thrive in this. New interest was spurred in no small part by a book published in eighteen forty five the emigrant's guide to california in oregon. The author of this book was an explorer named lansford hastings who spent much of the early eighteen forties living in the mexican province events of california. He was ambitious man who wanted to see california become its own republic. Some believe that hastings book was his way affecting a bloodless revolution by encouraging white settlers to move into the mexican territory word of this fresh opportunity reached reached springfield illinois where man named george donner lived with his family george donner with sixty two years his old and in excellent health for his age originally from salem north carolina he was a man who rarely stayed in one place for long his daughter daughter later described him as imbued with the spirit of adventure throughout his life. He slowly moved westward living briefly in kentucky and indiana. Ah after losing his first two wives to disease. He married his third wife thompson and they settled in illinois. He was a popular figure in springfield known to neighbors uncle george but in eighteen forty five he was feeling the urge to move once again descriptions of the land out west intrigued him and his younger brother jacob they grew particularly interested in california's pleasant climate and fertile soil a subject addict. Many explorers raved about george and jacob spent the winter of eighteen forty five diligently studying the maps and writings of lansford hastings finally after considerable discussion and consideration. They decided they would leave for california. On april fifteenth eighteen forty six this departure date made the most sense as it gave the families the largest window of favorable weather to cross the thousands of miles between swing illinois and the western territories in the weeks before their departure george donner took pains to ensure they were prepared for any obstacle they might come across plus they purchased livestock to keep them fed while on the road seeds to cultivate in their new home knickknacks and jewelry to barter with any native american in tribes they might encounter and find silks fabrics to trade for mexican land rights when they finally reached california as they set out george donner met another man with his sights set on california the forty five year old james f read read an irishman who had settled in illinois in eighteen thirty one had also been taken by hastings vivid descriptions of california. The two families joined up together and became known <music> as the donna reed party between the two families. They possess nine covered wagons six for the donners in three leave for the reads they pass through independence missouri on may twelfth eighteen forty six joining up with a wagon train on the most popular emigrant route west the oregon trail here. The donna reed party was joined by the family of patrick breen an iowan catholic and levine murphy perfect a widow who headed a family of thirteen despite his hefty preparations george donner had a number of worries chief among among them was his brother jacob. Jacob donner was about eight years younger than george but far less physically fit and prone to fatigue and illness onus george prayed that they would have enough supplies and favorable weather to make it to california without his brother contracting some sickness or becoming injured the male heads of the families george donner james read and patrick breen were all in agreement about making it to california as fast as possible to beat the weather and save supplies according to lansford hastings writing this was an achievable goal a passage in hastings book proposed an alternate route to california that he claimed would save travelers plenty of time and mileage he wrote the most direct route food for the california emigrants would be to leave the oregon route about two hundred miles east from fort hall thence bearing west south west to the salt lake lake and thence continuing down to the bay of saint francisco by the route just described but what hastings neglected to mention in his book was is that he had never taken the route himself at the time of writing the efficiency of hastings cutoff was pure conjecture drawn by a man who was only going talk of maps and descriptions he had heard from other individuals on june twenty seventh. The donna reed party arrived arrived at fort laramie a popular trading post in eastern wyoming the very same day james kleiman a companion of lansford hastings arrived arrived the ford as well climate and james reed were old friends from the eighteen thirty two black hawk war having served together in the same company read sat down with climate and asked him about the shortcut to california proposed in hastings book climates face fell when he heard the optimism and reads reads voice he told read in no uncertain terms to take the more established route to california he said take the regular wagon track and never leave it. It is barely possible to get through if you follow it and it may be impossible if you don't read protested saying the regular wagon trail was too far out of the way and would cost them days. If not weeks of extra travel kleiman common insisted in the tail end of eighteen forty five he and hastings had crossed back from california through the hastings cutoff it took them over the sierras through the winding canyons and thick brush of the wasatch mountains and across the great salt desert. He told read that the root hastings hastings described was inhospitable at best and deadly at worst read parted company with climbing that night undeterred whatever warnings climbing gave him about hastings new route they were outweighed by reed's own desire for a more direct path to california on ya as the party continued west. They were accompanied by a number of settlers bound for oregon on july eleventh. They encountered a man coming the opposite direction. He introduced himself as wales be bonnie he had with him. A letter that he was supposed was to deliver to any settlers traveling west. It was an open letter penned by lansford hastings to all california emigrants now on the road unlike climbing he extolled the benefits of his new cutoff which he had just explored he advised everyone who read the letter to head straight to fort bridgier where he would be waiting to escort settlers west along his route read was delighted by the news he and the other their families had been growing worried about the lateness of the season. It was already halfway through the summer and they still had half their journey to go with this encouragement. The donna reed group parted company with the rest of the wagon train on july eighteenth and headed for fort bridgier now now an autonomous company of their own. The donner reed party voted on who would be the captain of their group. The choice was between the heads of the three families. George george donner james read and patrick breen james reads stern military demeanor had made him automatically unpopular among the group george and the older man respected his experience and fortitude but amongst the younger men and women in the group read came off as overbearing forbearing and unnecessarily cruel patrick breen on the other hand was too much of a catholic for many of the protestants in the group so the group elected george donner who had neither the temperament of read or the heidi of green it would be the easiest decision the party made throughout their entire tire trip but not everyone was thrilled with the new plans. One of the other settlers wrote in his journal as they left the donners. Here's the californians were much elated and in fine spirits with the prospect of better and near a road to the country of their destination. Mrs is george donner. However was an exception tamsin. Donner georgia's forty four year old wife was disillusioned with the leadership of their party including her husband. She thought they were foolish to put their fate in the hands of a man who probably was in her words. Some selfish adventurer sure but george donner didn't heed his wife's concerns. Her misgivings only got worse when the newly christened donner party arrived at fort bridgier on july twenty eighth when they asked around for lansford hastings they found out he had left several days earlier but the owners of the fort mountain men jim bridger and louis vasquez offered them supplies and information regarding route hastings took read recorded boarded bridges advice in a letter home saying hastings cutoff is said to be saving of three hundred fifty or four hundred miles going to california. The rest of the californians went the long route feeling afraid of hastings cutoff. Mr bridgier informs me that the route we designed to take is a fine level road with plenty of water and grass but bridgier was not telling read the whole truth some days before a friend of reads named edwin bryant visited fort bridgier and left a letter for reid he had just come through hastings cutoff and wrote urgently we to dissuade read from taking that route. It was terribly impractical for wagons. He wrote and was actually a more inefficient route than the longer longer one. Jim bridgier did not give this letter to read or even mentioned that bryant had come through. He could not risk the party turning back. His business depended on it. Bridgier and vasquez had been running ford bridge since eighteen forty three by eighteen forty six the established route route to california circumvented this trading post altogether meaning their supply of customers had sharply declined over the preceding three years but if hastings things cutoff became a popular route for settlers going to california bridgier and vasquez would be able to revive their failing business. Neither george donner nor any of his companions suspected bridgier had any hidden agenda. Though many of them remarked letters home that ford bridgier wasn't much of a ford award at all more a pitiful collection of cabins surrounded by meager fortifications after trading for supplies and fresh livestock the donner party set out once again on july thirty first hoping to catch up with hastings on his route to california a week later on august sixth they encountered the first evidence of hastings at the eastern end of weber canyon a narrow pass into the wasatch mountains hastings had left note there tied to some sagebrush its contents were not encouraging in the letter hastings advise they not attempt to to bring their wagons into this past instead. He suggested they send a messenger through to meet him and he would come back and guide them along a better roodt. George donner called for volunteer to go through and meet hastings james read volunteered along with two other men charles stanton stanton and william pike the three men saddled up and went into the pass while the rest of the donner party set up camp waited read need stanton and pike soon discovered why hastings had warned against taking this route the pass was narrow and littered with jutting rocks crags and debris even without wagons they found it difficult to navigate the canyon on august eighth they emerged on the other side of the wasatch mountains ragged ragged and exhausted waiting for them on the banks of the great salt lake was lansford hastings himself and the party of sixty wagons hit escorted through the pass read stanton and pike were relieved last they could finally speak to the man who had led them so astray unfortunately for them hastings had no intention of doubling back to help any stragglers when we return return the donner party falls behind schedule and starts facing fatal consequences of hastings shortcut birthdays anniversaries holidays. These are the important dates. Most people tend to remember but the podcast network remembers important dates. It's true crime history every day. The podcast original today into crime takes you back to the big events and true crime that happened each day in history whether the crime is infamous or just plain interesting. There's a crime story for everyday of the year september third two thousand twelve griselda blanco. Oh cocaine godmother was gunned down in columbia october ninth. Two thousand two serial killer aileen wore knows declined her final meal and was executed november twenty ninth nineteen eighty-one natalie wood drowned on a weekend boat trip. Today and true crime is podcasts. I daily true crime podcast. You no longer have to wait for weeks to get your true crime fix with new episodes every day. You'll never run out of true. Crime content again crime. I'm it never takes a day off and now neither does podcast followed today and true crime for free on spotify and anywhere you listen to podcasts now back to the story by the time they reached the wasatch mountains in august of eighteen forty six the donner inter-party numbered eighty-seven members in twenty three wagons it had grown considerably from the thirty two man party that had left springfield that spring they were joined by several smaller families such as william etty a cabinet maker from illinois with his wife and two children. Some of these families included immigrants imigrants such as louis keys berg a foul tempered german with his family. An old belgian man named hard coop who traveled with kice berg and another a german known only by the surname vol- finger several single men bolstered the group including the thirty five year old charles stanton and an irishman tamed patrick dolan one final family caught up with them as they waited for james read to return from the far side of the wasatch mountains on august eighth. This was the graves family who had been trailing behind them. Since they left independence missouri one of their hired men john snyder did his best to you encourage the flagging spirits of the donner party on august tenth eighteen forty six james reid returned to the party alone alone he had left charles stanton and william pike resting on the other side of the mountains he passed on a message from lansford hastings the explorer whose book had guided them to what looked like a dead end read stanton and pike had demanded that hastings show them a better route through the mountains then the horrible herbal one they had just taken hastings indicated a nearby pass through the mountains would would not be joining them. He was preoccupied with his own wagon entrain and would not wait for the honors to catch up with him when he finally returned to the donners read claim that following hastings guidance he had found another other route that would circumvent the narrow canyon. He called this route reads pass. It had some dense underbrush to get through but it was nowhere near mir. As hazardous as the narrow passageway hastings book had led them to encouraged the party turns southwest to follow all of this new path at first it was promising only sloping gently upward toward the pass in the mountains however by august fifteenth breath they could go no further the brush had grown too thick for the wagons to pass and it needed to be cleared before they could continue it took three are- whole days for the able bodied men of the group to cut a path through the thick undergrowth all the while read grew steadily more irritable and started berating the men for not working as hard as they could by the time they reached the crest on august twenty first many members of the party started to doubt reads judgment as a guide it had taken sixteen days to cross the wasatch mountains the route that had seemed so promising had cost them their most most precious resource time the group hastily descended into the salt lake valley following tracks left by hastings company. The wagon train began to spread out each family travelling at their own pace. The donner wagon lagged behind due to a sickly passenger. A a young man named luke halloran who had picked up at fort bridgier halloween thought that the california climate would help cure his debris closys but as is august war on his strength waned until he passed away on august twenty fifth. Many historians consider luke halloran the first true casualty of the donner party. The donner stopped just long enough to bury him then set off after their companions. The craggy mountain range and thick underbrush of the wasatch mountains was only the first obstacle. The second was the salt desert following the great salt lake crossing this arid utah desert took its toll on the donner party. They fought searing hot sun sun during the day and bitterly cold winds at night. The wagons drifted further and further apart in dehydration began to set in one of the first to feel the effects of dehydration was william eddie toward the front of the train as he walked he saw another group of settlers settlers in the distance perfectly mirroring his own family's progress in moments the caravan had vanished into the hazy distance nothing nothing but a mirage fearing either his cattle or his family would die of thirst james read road ahead of his wagons to fetch water her leaving his family and his oxen in the care of his teamsters the hired men unhitch oxen from the wagons to prevent them from passing out from thirst and and exhaustion by this point. Many of the oxen were half blind from sand blowing into there is once they were freed from the yolks wchs that held them back the beasts flew into a frenzy and charged off into the dark. No one really knows precisely why they did this but it suspected affected that the scent of a nearby oasis drove the parched animals to charge away in search of water read returned to find his family left with only one cow and one auks with most of his herd gone. The read family had lost a significant source of food as well as the the means to pull their three wagons. They loaded everything they could fit onto their one remaining wagon prioritizing what food they have left after seven days of trudging through the desert the donner party gathered by a spring at the base of pilot peak the camp camp there for around a week taking in supplies and searching for livestock that had wandered off read was not the only one who wound up abandoning wagons for supply reasons both george donner and louis keys berg abandoned one wagon each during this leg of the journey the long march through the desert it had been disastrous for the party's supply levels as well most families had lost significant numbers of livestock and were suffering from malnutrition with food food stores running low the group decided to send someone ahead to bring them supplies from sutter's fort the nearest californian trading post two men volunteered charles stanton and william big bill mccutchen read gave kutch in a letter to deliver to sutter promising using the read would repay him for any provisions that the two men took back with him stanton and mccutchen set off and a few days later on september tenth the donner party broke camp and soldiered on the tracks left by hastings group were still visible in the sand and dirt ahead of them giving them a clear route to follow allow but once again taking hastings advice turned out to be a bad idea the tracks led the settlers along the ruby the mountains which turned out to be a one hundred twenty-five mile detour though they wouldn't realize this until later finally on september twenty twenty six they reached the humboldt river where hastings cutoff met the established emigrant trail the detour had been disastrous by taking hastings cutoff. The donner party was now weeks behind schedule and many families including reads were perilously low on supplies. The donner family took the lead and the rest of the train followed hoping with diligent rationing could still make it to california the end of september passed uneventfully with the party making steady progress along the trail but at the dawn of october tensions reached reached a breaking point between the various families on the morning of october fifth reid and william eddie left the wagon train to hunt they hoped to bolster their depleted food stores until stanton and mccutchen returned from the trading post that evening as the two men return to the wagon train read heard some voices raised in argument just underneath the voices came the unmistakable sound of screaming oxen read picked up his pace writing up to his wagon to see what was causing the racket. What he found was a scene of utter chaos. The team of oxen belonging to the graves family had become tangled with reads remaining ox and his family wagon graves driver twenty-three-year-old year-old john's snyder was furiously whipping the oxen in an attempt to separate the teams he shouted milt elliott claiming that eliot had been in his way and it was his fault that the animals had gotten entangled re dismounted his horse and berated snyder for mistreating the animals he drew his hunting knife knife to cut the wagons free then turning his frustration from elliot to elliott's employer snyder threatened to whip read. If he came any closer in an attempt to defuse the situation read told snyder they should settle the matter later snyder replied we will settle so it now and struck read in the head with the butt of his bull whip. This blow knocked read to the ground snyder leapt on him furiously striking taking him several more times margaret reid attempted to break up the fight but received blow to her head as well when snyder went to strike again read stood stood and plunged his knife into snyder's chest puncturing his left lung snyder stumbled into the arms of his employer billy graves who caught him and lowered him to the ground moments later. John snyder was dead. Read was immediately you filled with remorse he reportedly through his bloody hunting knife aside in despair he offered boards from his own wagon for a coffin but this was rejected by the graves family with their captain george donner two days ahead the company formed a council to decide what should be done with james reid who is now considered a murderer john snyder though only a hired hand had been popular among the company read on the other hand was the caustic and haughty man who had insisted they take a difficult route. Most of the party had not seen the events that that led to john snyder's death and doubted reads claim of self-defence. Some men wrote down affidavits from all the witnesses which they stored for an eventual trial in california others wanted to dispense frontier justice that very day lewis keys berg raised his swaggie tongue in the air and said that read should be hanged from it immediately. The two sides friends read and of snyder debated the issue back enforce the entire evening. Finally they settled on a sentence that appeased the majority read would be banished from the party without food or weaponry in the desert. This was tantamount to a death sentence but one that didn't force his family to watch him die on the morning of october sixth the day after snyder's body was buried read bid farewell to his family and road off into the wilderness on his prize mayor glaucous that night in direct defiance of the group reads daughter-in-law virginia and milt elliott rode out after after him when they caught up with read they gave him his rifle pistols ammunition and a handful of crackers they then return to their families on his way west read past the donner family wagons where he claimed to have been sent ahead to seek additional supplies in california. George george donner may have been skeptical that read would so willingly abandon his family but he didn't question him. One of the donners teamsters walter herron volunteered to go with read for supplies. The two men then set off ahead on reads horse. Many in the donner party would never see them again again soon afterward. A german member of the party a mr vol- finger lost all of his own livestock and had to abandon his wagon his wife doris went ahead with the rest of the party while two men joseph reinhart and stay spitzer stayed behind to help vol- finger salvage what good's he could carry reinhardt and spitzer rejoined the party a few days later with solemn news for mrs vol- finger. They claimed her husband had been killed by members of the piat tribe who had attacked and burned the wagon. When news of this claim reached the donner wagons george donner made a note of it. It was no secret. Full finger carried a considerable sum of money on his person so his sudden death was suspicious. Rumors ars of murder began to circulate among the weary travelers. The party was starting to come apart at the seams after months counts of marching together. Many families openly resented their neighbors and started to keep mostly to themselves along the wagon. Train families were making making efforts to lighten the load for their weary oxen. The keys berg family even kicked their traveling companion. The old belgian named hard coop out of their wagon. Hard coop begged other wagons to take him in but his pleas fell on deaf ears. Most families didn't want to tax tax. Their remaining oxen with another passenger raids from nearby pie natives had driven off or wounded many of the livestock and those that remained were a precious commodity hard coop fell behind and was never seen again on october fifteenth. A piat raid aide killed all but one of william eddie's cattle forcing eddie his wife and child to abandon many of their possessions and continue on foot the next day eddie arrived at patrick breen's wagon where he begged for some water to help his family crossed the alkali desert breen who had seven seven children of his own to think of refused to share eddie seized a rifle and pointed at brean telling him that he would kill for the water if he had to breen let him fill a bucket and continue on his way despite the threat breen let the whole incident go. The man man was desperate and he would have done the same for his own family. The desert finally ended when the donner party reached the truckee river on october. Seventeenth eighteenth eddie relieved set about hunting nearby geese for his family. All they have left to eat was flour but their father was a skilled the marksman and soon he brought back nine geese for his children to eat on october. Nineteenth charles stanton returned from sutter's sutter's fort with supplies for the flagging party trailing behind him seven mules laden with flour dried beef and other supplies but missing was his companion big bill mccutchen he had fallen. Ill sutter's fort and couldn't return instead stanton brought back the to milwaukee native american cowboys named luis and salvador to help the struggling train stanton had passed a haggard read lead and heron going the opposite direction read was so gaunt from starvation that stanton had barely recognized him the party members who exiled him were astonished that reid had made it so far the return of stanton and the new supplies gave hope to the settlers. Maybe just maybe these supplies would carry them to california. Their hopes were dashed. Only a day later on october twentieth. They caught their first glimpse of the sierra nevada a sheer wall of granite rising up in the distance but it wasn't just the size of these mountains that caused distress among the group the tips of the sierra nevada mountain range were frosted with snow was there first tangible sign that winter was on the horizon when we return the donner party seals their own fate eight with a final push for california now back to the story in late october eighteen forty six. The donner party was tantalizingly close to their destination. Just beyond the sierra nevada mountains was the untamed land of california however winter winter was quickly approaching and if they didn't pass those mountains soon they ran the risk of being snowed in the supplies charles stanton had brought them from california with last party a little while longer but george donner feared. They were pushing their luck. He decided they should send another. The advance party to sutter's fort for supplies to men william foster and william pike volunteered to make the journey but this expedition would never happen as the two men packed their provision to scale the mountain range. A pistol foster was holding accidentally discharge charged. The bullets struck william pike in the back and he collapsed to the ground writhing in agony. The group gathered around him watching him as he contorted on the ground groaning after an excruciating twenty minutes. He died fourteen year old. Mary murphy perfect would later right. He suffered more than tongue can tell foster was wracked with guilt pike had been his brother-in-law uh he fell into a solemn silence for the rest of the journey unable to find more volunteers for a supply run or unwilling to spend all the time george donner insisted they go on with the supplies they had they moved camp and made their way toward the truckee river canyon hoping they could beat the snow by the time they arrived at truckee river canyon in late october eighteen forty six the donner party had split into three beat distinct groups the lead group with the brain family the keys burg's and the eddie's the middle group with margaret reid and her children the graves family only charles stanton luis and salvador and the third group consisting only of the donner family trailing far behind george george donner stayed to the rear of the train so their cattle wouldn't get run down by any of the other wagons he was also deeply concerned about wagons having difficulty on the upcoming slopes in wanted to make sure he could provide assistance for any that fell behind as far as george donner was concerned their a journey was still salvageable as long as they could pass the sierras before winter they would be able to reach their destination but as the donners has descended into the nearby dog valley another unanticipated disaster struck as they guided their horses and oxen into the canyon. One of the donner wagons overturned trapping two of the children in the wreckage for your old georgia and three year old elisa aisa fortunately neither was seriously injured but the accident presented another issue to the donors. The axle of this wagon had broken in a needed repairs now having completely lost sight of the rest of their party george donner and his brother jacob said about fashioning a replacement assessment axel from a nearby pine log george held the log while jacob hacked away at it with a chisel justice. Jacob was putting the finishing in touch is on it. The chisel slipped cutting a deep gash across the back of george donner's hand as his family washed and dressed his wound wound. George quipped that he had greater concerns than cuts and bruises despite his flippant tone his concern was growing. They couldn't waste time on such a minor inconvenience when they were so far behind the rest of their party at that same moment around five miles south west. The remainder of the donner party was pushing to escape the valley the other fifty nine members of the party were camped out by truckee lake. They hit awakened to an inch of snow and panicked realizing that winter was not far off without the leadership of george donner. The group decided to take a chance and try to summit the sierra nevada. They turned charles stanton for guidance as he was the only one who knew the way the to me walks who accompanied stanton luis and salvador also knew the mountains but they couldn't speak much english on november second and the party made their way to the far side of the lake and attempted to summit though it was still only fall the rocks were already slick with snow snow and ice iron rimmed wagon wheels couldn't gain any traction on the rock and they began to slide backwards on the steep incline the the drivers beat at the hawks and mercilessly to force progress but the wagons could only move forward mere feet at a time though stanton and the milwaukee could scout ahead good ways up the mountain on foot. The waggons lagged far behind them by this point. Everyone had stepped out of their wagons in an attempt to lighten the load for their exhausted animals. Some men even attempted to push their own wagons hoping that would be just the encouragement. The oxygen needed to make real progress. Almost all of the women carry their children adding to their exhaustion stanton stanton returned from scouting ahead to find the party had come to a complete standstill dark storm clouds gathered overhead some of the men lit a nearby pitch pine on fire and everyone gathered around it for warmth stanton attempted to persuade the family to press on and but night was drawing in fast the men and women were tired instead of setting up camp many simply put buffalo skins and blankets blankets on the ground laying down to sleep by the burning pine on the morning of november third lewis cheeseburger awoke to a terrible shock he stepped out of his wagon to what seemed like an empty plain of white snow devoid of life life when he cried out in alarm heads started popping out of the snow banks having been buried during the night one by one the settlers awoke and jump to their feet brushing snow from their clothing and shaking their blankets dry the valley had been transformed from green to wight overnight winter had finally caught up with them concern gave way to panic in the families gathered by the burnt treed figure. You're out a course of action. They faced a terrible choice. Either attempt to summit the icy mountain which they had already failed to do the day before four or head back to the lake and risk getting trapped in by the snow and cold in the end after a heated discussion. They decided to take the latter option. This is unsurprising. The dreadful mountain climb was fresh in their minds from the previous day and at least to return to the lake could promise shelter and a chance to assess their options in think of a new plan the fifty nine men women women and children guided their wagons back down the mountains as they made their way back to the lake snow began to fall gently gently at first but soon increasing in speed and intensity the settlers quickly realized that neither the tents they had been using nor nor their covered wagons would be enough protection against the cold they would need to construct more permanent shelters patrick breen discovered covered primitive cabin a mile to the east of the lake which he claimed for his family it was a crude structure made of pine saplings with a dirt floor and no roof this structure had been erected by a young migrant named moses shellenberger who had spent the winter of eighteen forty a four in the valley to make the cabin habitable the breen's fashioned a roof out of hides and canvas the nine greens were joined by patrick dolan and a mexican drove named antonio in the cramped one hundred sixty eight square foot space lewis was keys berg constructed shelter for his own family up against the brains cabin south west of the structure close to the lake william the and william foster located a large concave boulder. They hurriedly gathered materials and constructed three walls of a cabin up against it. Sixteen individuals including eddie foster and levine murphy's families all moved into this stone cabin. The final structure structure in the lake camp was nearly a mile to the east and slightly north of the brain's cabin. This cabin was built by franklin graves and consisted of two new adjacent chambers one for the graves family and the other for the reads since james reid's departure franklin graves had taken some sense ends of responsibility for his wife and children as soon as they could the encamped travelers dispatched a messenger backup the trail to meet the donors the donner family had reached a stream now called alder creek when they heard the news that the rest of their company had failed to across the sierras and we're now constructing cabins by the lake for shelter fearing that a full blizzard was not far off george and jacob. Jacob donner began working on a log cabin by the creek. This was slow going as george couldn't use his injured right hand and jacob was feeling week from travel as the snow piled up around them they abandoned unfinished cabin and through together three canvas tents one unfor- george donner's family one for jacobs and a third for their teamsters between the two camps. There were eighty. He won people in total fifty nine at the cabins by the lake and twenty two by alder creek by this time the original party of eighty seven the traveled west from independence was down to seventy nine five had died one had been banished and two had gone west for so help those that remained in the truckee river valley were unprepared for winter. If they stayed they would run out of food in days and and if they tried to climb the sierras they would risk both starvation and freezing to death after walking over two thousand miles they were just over one hundred miles away from the nearest settlement in california sutter's fort but as the families huddled together in their makeshift shift shelters the beautiful land of california had never felt farther away. Many of their party would never lay is on any land beyond the frozen basin. They were now trapped within thanks for listening to survival next week. Winter sets in truckee lake and certain members of the donner party make a desperate bid to escape their wintry trapped for more information on donner party amongst the many sources we used used we found the indifferent stars above the heroine saga of donner party bride by daniel james brown extremely helpful to our search. You can find all episodes of survival and all other podcast originals for free on spotify not only to spotify already have all your favorite music sick but now spotify is making it easier for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like survival for free from your phone desktop or smart mart speaker to stream survival on spotify just open the app tap browse and type survival in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and instagram to graham at podcast and twitter at park has network. We'll see you next time. Survival was created by max cutler is a production action of cutler media and as part of the podcast network. It is produced by maxson ron cutler sound designed by andy weights with production assistance by ron shapiro and paul liba skin additional production assistance by carly madden and maggie admire. This episode of survival is written by robert team stra and stars irma blanco and tim johnson be sure to check out the today and true crime podcast every day. It covers a different true crime event from history. Don't miss an episode follow today in true crime on spotify and anywhere you listen to podcasts.

George george donner donner party california lansford hastings Jacob donner charles stanton donner family hastings james reid teamsters hastings cutoff patrick breen james donner reed party john snyder spotify patrick breen Donner georgia margaret reid root hastings hastings william eddie
The Mountain Goats - Younger

KEXP Song of the Day

05:52 min | 1 year ago

The Mountain Goats - Younger

"Crave. In the wellspring. Math. Oh, your court. Sandusky by. Dole out for restless young civil. It never hurts to the level. You never know who might be hungry. Windows on the upper. I saw. The door. All the nine five. Doc. By the city. Try the loose. The mission. It never hurts to give. Thanks to the brother. Mom. You had to use Bill. Clause. Of you will never understand. And it doesn't really. Capsule. Underneath. Donner? Storm. I. I don't know. Follow me. This is. Even the parts prepare. It never hurts to the. Even when he's sitting out round number. Two.

Sandusky Dole Donner
The Donner Party Pt. 3: Journeys End

Survival

53:41 min | 1 year ago

The Donner Party Pt. 3: Journeys End

"The following episode contains descriptions of starvation murder and cannibalism that some listeners may find offensive listener discretion is advised especially for children under under thirteen January twenty first eighteen forty seven. It felt like the cold would never end. Elisa Williams uh-huh trudged through the snow legs aching with each step the twenty five year old woman had come on the journey west with the read family as their cook her brother and Albino man named bayless had been working as a handyman for the reads as well it was good employment and the two of them had looked forward to a bright future in California but once they arrived in truckee river valley. Everything went horribly wrong. The entire Party became became snowed in with supplies diminishing rapidly at first bayless and Eliza took care of the children but only a month after getting caught in the valley bayless died of fever. He was the first to perish at the Lake Camp as rations thinned. Elisa found her own position. Even more tenuous having their own cook had once been a luxury reads could afford but now that food food such a scarce resource. She was merely another mouth to feed. She had to fend for herself. When Elisa Elisa finally reached the breen family's cabin she pleaded with the occupants to give her a bit of beef. She couldn't stomach the scraps of ox hide. Mrs Graves Graves had given her she received sympathy but nothing else Patrick Breen's diary noted simply. Elisa will not eat it hides. Mrs Read sent her back to live or die on them. Welcome to survival apar- cast original. I'm your host Irma. Blanco and I'm Tim Johnson every Monday. We'll take view inside incredible true stories of life or death situations you can find episodes of survival and all other podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream survival for free on spotify just open the APP and type survival in the search bar at podcast. We're grateful for you our our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network and and if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review wherever you're listening it really does help this is our third and final episode on the Donner Party a group over eighty would be settlers who became trapped on their way to the largely unclaimed territory of California this tweak we'll follow the remaining survivors to the end of their journey after slaughtering almost all of their livestock for food and getting buffeted by multiple snowstorms the men and women of the Donner Party faced the likely prospect that they would be trapped in the truckee river valley for the rest of the winter many of the group including the leader of the party ready. George Donner were too weak to travel the rest had to weigh their options would they attempt to brave the elements and risk dying in the cold or stay with their families and risk starvation on December sixteenth a group group of fifteen men and women nicknamed the forlorn hope set out to summit the Sierra Nevada mountain range that had blocked their path. Though some uh-huh still in the camp prayed they would return with help soon. Others took matters into their own hands. Margaret Reid whose husband James had been expelled eld from the company for murder set out from the camp on January fourth hoping to climb the SIERRAS and catch up with the forlorn hope five days later she returned unsuccessful by January. The emigrants had been stranded in the valley for two months. Living in cabins utterly buried in snow banks. Everyone in the camp was week. Six had perished death seemed to hang over the entire camp as they waited for the next member to succumb to starvation or the bitter cold on the morning of January twenty fifth those those living in the brain cabin heard a cry of despair from the adjacent shelter where the German immigrant Louis Keys Berg had been living with his wife and two children Brin. No one in the Party was particularly fond of keys Berg. He was harsh and inconsiderate man. Who many believed was abusive toward his wife but on that morning it was hard not to be sympathetic towards the man he's Burg's son? Louis Keys Berg Junior had died in the night Patrick Breen who had been keeping a daily diary all winter wrote on January twenty sixth. Those who went to sutter's not yet returned provision growing scant people growing week living on a small allowance of hides pretty much the only food they had left were the ox hides they had been using his blankets or tent covers families tore them up into strips and cooked them mm-hmm or boiled them to make an insubstantial STU. Even to the starving settlers it was barely edible. They had no way of knowing that just one hundred miles to the west. Seven of their traveling companions had made their way to safety and were preparing a rescue expedition addition. A pioneer named reason Pete Tucker was at Sutter's fort when he heard that a group of Donner Party survivors. I had reached Johnson's ranch with the help of John. Sutter Tucker gathered all the men and supplies he could and set off to meet those who lead miraculously survived when they rode into Johnson's ranch in early February they found seven members of the Forlorn Hope William Etty William Foster Sarah Foster and four other women recovering in Johnson's care most of them were still too weak to travel. None of them mentioned that they had eaten their deceased companions to survive only William Etty volunteered to lead Tucker's men back over the Sierras Eddie was still frail and malnourished but as far as he knew his wife Eleanor and his children Margaret and James were starving by the lake camp waiting for his return. He did not want to waste any time resting on February fourth. The first I relief party of fourteen men set off from Johnson's ranch that same day by the Lake Camp Margaret Eddie starved to death tucker kept a diary during the first few days of the rescue expedition his first entry on February fifth eighteen forty forty seven was unenthusiastic about their progress first day traveled ten miles bad roads often miring in down horses and Mules Tucker continued to write on the sixth and seventh traveled fifteen miles road continued he knew bad commenced raining before we got to camp and continue to rain all that day and night very severe even if they got to the lake camp soon they'd have to fight the harsh winter in both directions fortunately for the trapped emigrants this policy was not the only one headed their way. James F read exiled member of the Donner Party had had been fighting in the Mexican American war while his family was snowbound in the Sierra Nevada's he participated in the battle of Santa Clara hoping that if the war ended swiftly he would be able to gather men to rescue the Donner Party but shortly after the battle he received a letter from William. Am Big Bill mccutcheon who was in Napa Valley gathering men and supplies to rescue his infant daughter Harriet from the mountains this letter tersely slee read you had better come in haste as there is no time to delay on February seventh James Read Left San Francisco for cinema determined determined to join up with mccutchen three days later on February tenth. The first relief party began to pass through the snow covered parts parts of the mountain tucker recorded in his diary animals floundering in snow and camped at the mule springs the elevation and was three thousand eight hundred forty nine feet and the pack animals. Were not the only one struggling William Etty strength was flagging and as the snow piled up around him and the ground grew steeper he realized he didn't have the energy to make it up the mountain on February eleventh seventh. He reluctantly took the pack mules and went back down the slope on February eighteenth. The rest of the group reached the summit of the Sierra Nevada Vada overlooking Truckee Lake the entire Canyon was white with snow. Not a single cabin was visible by the lake without William Eddie to guide them Tucker had no way of recognizing the camp but they descended anyway making their way down the mountains and across cross the frozen surface of the lake by their estimation. The snow was around eighteen feet high. Any cabins would be completely completely buried. The men shouted across the snowbanks praying that they hadn't arrived too late at the sound of a human voice figures began to appear Daniel Rhodes. A member of the first relief described his first. I shocked impression of the Donner Party. We saw a woman emerged from a hole in the snow. As we approached her several others made their appearance they were gaunt with famine and I never can forget the horrible ghastly sight. They presented this first woman and they saw thirty five year old. Levine Murphy cried out to the rescuers in a hollow voice. Are you men from California or did you come from heaven. The camp was a grisly sight eleven had died so far and bodies lay scattered about the camp half buried in the snow. The families of the deceased barely had the strength to drag the bodies a few feet away from their shelters alongside the bones of their slaughtered walks in the party distributed small portions of food among the Murphy Cabin being careful not to overfeed the shrunken survivors later that evening. Tucker spied another column of smoke rising from a hole in the snow half a mile to the South Tucker reached the smokes origin around eight PM. It was coming from the graves cabin. Tucker was greeted by starved served Elizabeth Graves who had watched her husband and two oldest daughters leave over two months ago. She asked Tucker where Franklin was and whether author. He Sarah Mary Ann and Jay had gotten through Tucker told her that they had made it but were to frozen to make the return journey. This was only a partial truth as both Franklin and Jay had died during the trip tucker reason that admitting the full truth breath disheartened Elizabeth and her remaining children even further elisabeth was suspicious automatically fearing the worst had happened to her family early the next day Tucker and the others traveled northeast to the Alder Creek Camp there they found the donner family with only a single ox. Yes Hi between them for Food Tamsin Donner and her recently widowed sister in Law Elizabeth had twelve children between them who they struggled to feed thompsons husband. George was bedridden. His entire right arm infected from a cut on his hand. Tucker explained to the women that they can only bring enough food for a couple of days. He told them they needed to bring everyone who could walk out of the Valley of the whole whole group. Thompson Donner was in the best condition. Physically she still had enough energy to walk about their tent while the rest of her family was reduced crawling but despite her relative strength she would not go with him. She couldn't leave her husband behind between the two camps at Alder Creek and Truckee Lake. Many did not have the strength to leave. Lewis Keys Berg Berg had a foot injury that prevented him from walking but his wife Philippine would make the journey with their three year old child Ada leaving her crippled and bitter husband behind on February twenty-second a party of twenty. Two survivors set off across the lake. This included Margaret Reid who is determined to break out of the mountains whatever the cost but two of her children three year old Thomas and eight-year-old Patty were a two week to go very far. Tucker told Margaret that the two children would have to return to the cabins many years later leanna donner would dictate a vivid description of this journey to her children in her words. We were a sad spectacle to look upon as as we left the cabins we marched along in single file the leader wearing snowshoes and the others following after all stepping in the leaders tracks Iraq's we replaced on short allowance of food from the start and each day this allowance was cut shorter and shorter until we received not for our evening and morning meal two small pieces of jerked beef about the size of the index finger of the hand with food supplies running low tucker feared that the entire group would perish he decreed that everyone would be on half rations and for the rest of the journey but even effectively budgeting their food stores could not keep death at bay soon after their departure the infant Ada cheeseburger died having just buried her son Louis junior less than a month earlier. Philippine was not prepared to lose. It was her second child. She clutched the baby to her breast refusing to let her go as the rest of the party moved on reason Tucker sat down beside Philippine and asked her if she could give him the child and join the others reluctantly she complied in Tucker's own words after she was out of sight roads and myself buried the child in the snow best we could her spirit went to heaven and her body to to the wolves next the remnants of the Donner Party fight their way through the mountains while their families. Please try desperately not to starve. We like to think we're prepared for a catastrophe the time and time again mother nature proves US wrong sue Nami these volcanoes tornadoes earthquakes each of these has the ability to not only kill but to wipe out entire civilizations each week the podcast original natural disasters dissect moments in history. When the natural world turned deadly you'll learn how the most famous and devastating natural occurrences on the planet as well as more obscure natural catastrophes impact packed the people of that region from the first recorded earthquake in ancient China to Hurricane Katrina in New Orleans natural disasters have plagued mankind signed for the entirety of our existence. Whether the disaster took place then or now they all remind us that despite humanity's achievements we are no no match for the fury of Mother Nature. If you enjoy stories about man versus nature than you'll enjoy natural disasters listen and subscribe to natural disasters interest free on spotify and anywhere you listen to podcasts now back to the story by the time the first relief arrived at truckee lake on February eighteenth eighteen forty seven there were just over fifty fifty members of the Donner Party left alive. Those who remained were skeletal shells of their former selves barely able to crawl around around their meager shelters the twenty two strongest survivors started west with the first relief on February twenty-second the thirty three who remained included the leader of the party George Donner whose right arm had become severely infected from a cut on his hand nine months ago he had left Illinois with dreams of making his fortune in the new land of California now he couldn't even get out of that heading back through the mountains caused a great deal of stress for the relief party and survivors their food rations were utterly depleted pleaded and by February twenty sixth. They were toasting their rawhide shoestrings for lunch. Aquilla Glover and John Rhodes set off a head of the group hoping to encounter another group of rescuers on the way in an ironic twist of fate their relief party he was in desperate need of relief shortly after glover inroads returned with dried beef they had encountered a group of men coming the other way and had been sent back with supplies. The two parties met the next day as the new men introduced themselves. Margaret Margaret Reid heard a familiar voice she rushed toward the head of the column followed by Her Children Virginia and James Junior finally the figures of big bill mccutchen and James F Reid came into view Margaret Sanger her knees from exhaustion and her long lost husbands stooped to embrace her. They had not seen each other since October but the warmth of their reunion faded when James read realized just how starved his family had become since their last meeting he wrote later. I cannot describe Dr with the death like look. They all had bread bread. Bread was the begging of every child and grown person following the tearful reunion. James Reed told Margaret that he had to press on to the late camp he had a duty to rescue their last two children trend and had promised mccutchen that he would help him find his own child. So the read family parted ways once again james continued on toward Truckee Lake while Margaret Virginia and James Junior made for sutter's fort. We have very few records of what happened at the Lake Camp. During this time the few records we do have indicate this is when the snowbound survivors began to turn to cannibalism cannibalism Lavina Murphy suggested to the Breen's that they eat the body of milt Elliott a teamster who had died several days before Patrick Breen recorded this in his diary. I don't think that she has done so yet. It is distressing. The donners told the California folks that they would commence to eat the dead people for days ago. I suppose they have done so air this time yet. Another tragedy awaited the rescue party heading for the Fort Twelve Year Old William Hook Stepson of George Donner the came Ravenous on the twenty eighth of February. He noticed that every night after distributing food rations to the party Tucker and the others hung the remaining supplies off a nearby tree that night William scaled the tree and broke into the food stores during the morning Tucker and the others discovered the boy lying in by the tree gasping his pockets full of dried beef he died shortly after his shrunken digestive system unable to process process the sudden abundance of food on March First Reed and mccutchen finally arrived at Truckee Lake they had not seen their traveling companions since October and were heartbroken to see them so frail near death the bodies that had been scattered around the campground ground Amir week ago. We're now bones. Read entered the Murphy Cabin. I an informed everyone within that they would need to leave in two days while the others prepared soup for the survivors reed and mccutchen reburied maccagnan's infant daughter Harriet who died in early February the next morning. They pushed onto the donners camp. The Donner family was in a grim. St Elizabeth was lying in her tent by her children without the strength to move in the other tent George Lay at death's door attended by Tamsin Hamson. Their three children were healthier than either of the parents. According to Georgia Donner the adults had finally decided to prepare repair human flesh to feed the youngest children figuring they were too young to taste it. She wrote father was crying and did not look at us during the time as they had with the Murphys Reed and mccutchen gave the donners food and told them that anyone who had the strength to come with him in two days must do so then James read made his way back to the lake camp to check the other cabins for stragglers on March third James Reid returned to the late camp where he met Lewis cheeseburger for the first time since his exile the last time they saw each other keys Berg had suggested to the rest of the group that they hang read instead of exiling him but his read approach the other man's withered figure he made no mention of their last bidder encounter instead read bathed keys Berg and gave him a fresh set of clothes keys. Berg said Reed had no animosity toward me. He found me too weak to move. He washed washed me combed my hair and treated me kindly indeed he had no cause to do otherwise keys. Berg showed some selective memory in his account never mentioning their previous quarrels. Perhaps his intention was to whitewash his own reputation has James Reid was no L. longer the pariah he had been when keys bird called for his death. Now he was their savior and keys. Berg wouldn't want to be remembered. The man who tried to hang their rescuer before read left he gave keys Berg a half pound of dried beef from his pack and a half tea the cup of flour he told the German that he would return in two weeks and carry him over the mountain. Then James Reid left. If the camp taking seventeen survivors with him this included his two remaining children Patrick Breen and his family Elizabeth Graves graves and her children and three of the younger donner's he left behind three men to care for the survivors until the next expedition arrived arrived as they went through the melting snow. The clouds darkened overhead read jotted down some scattered thoughts in his journal night closing fast the clouds still thickening terror terror to many my heart dare not communicate my mind to any death to all the provisions do not come on March fifth the blizzard hit. The second relief huddled around the fire as the storm raged around them read mccutchen lead men to forage for firewood but the task grew increasingly difficult as the weather intensified fire continually melted the snow sinking deeper as the rescuers is tried their best to shield the logs from the wind and snow eventually the whole in the snow was wide enough for everyone to lay within it sheltering sheltering them from the wind returning from a trip together would big bill mccutcheon lay down next to the fire. He was so numb from the cold hold. He didn't notice his clothes ignite all four shirts. He was wearing burnt off his back before he realized what was happening. He quickly quickly doused the fire an amazingly he was only slightly singed at the same time the other leader of the group. James Reid was suffering far worse. He became almost completely snow blind one day into the blizzard. The party were effectively stuck and almost completely out of food on March seventh. The snowfall stopped read having recovered covered. Most of his site proposed. They forage forward but the party had suffered immensely over the three days during the chaos of the storm storm. Elizabeth Graves starved to death. Never learning that her children. Maryanne and Sarah were waiting for her on the other side of the mountains she was joined in death by two five year olds her son Franklin Graves Junior and Isaac Donner the son none of Jacob and Elizabeth Donner out of options Reed and mccutchen abandoned everyone who was too weak to go on the only survivors who could join them were reads to young children the Group of four had to continue on they didn't WanNa give up and starve arve when they could bring more supplies back the whole that they left the brains and graves in would later be known as starved served Camp Patrick Breen watched them. Go praying that another rescue party would pass them soon. He huddled with his family with with no food save for the three bodies of their friends lying on the outside of the snow pit as has read left the eleven survivors in the mountains. Tamsin Donner received terrifying news backed by Alder Creek Elizabeth Donner had died. I two days earlier in two of the men who had agreed to look after her family. Charles Stone and Charles Katie were planning on heading back west on on their own fearing they would be abandoned. Tamsin promised to pay the men to take her three remaining daughters over the mountains. The the men agreed taking the six year old Francis four year old Georgia and three-year-old away with them however by the time they reached the lake camp. They realized they could not carry the three children through such thick snow so they deposited the donner girls in the Murphy earthy cabin. There were four living individuals in the Murphy Cabin at the time Levine Murphy her eight year old son Simon her one one year old grandson George foster and the increasingly wild Lewis Keys Berg despite reads attempt to nurse him back to health <music> keys Berg had grown distant after being abandoned by his wife and surviving daughter sometime after March eighth keys Berg took the child titled George Foster into bed with him extensively to keep the child warm the next morning George was dead Lavina in a Murphy accused keys Berg of killing the Child Keys Berg did not respond to these accusations but merely laid the baby's body not on the floor of the cabin and returned to bed sometime later the donner girls saw keys burke walk over to George Foster's body <music> pick him up and hang on a peg like a cut of meat back at starved Camp Camp Patrick Breen had given up all hope lying at the bottom of the hole in the ground staring up into space his wife Margaret kept their children alive on pitifully small doses of T. heated over the fire and Sweden's with the one lump of sugar she had have left but this barely took the edge off the ravenous hunger consuming the eleven survivors one night. She woke Patrick in a panic saying that her baby was dying. Patrick Breen replied. Let Him die. He will be better off than any of us. Shortly after Charles Stone and Charles Katie passed by on their way back from the lake camp seeing the three bodies in the snow. Oh they looked into the whole making eye contact with the emaciated survivors and soldiered on unable to help at some point went after they left desperate for any kind of sustenance. Mary Donner suggested that they start eating the dead days later on the afternoon of March twelfth. The third relief arrived at starved camp. This party was led by William Eddie and William Foster to surviving men of the forlorn hope they were both motivated by the same urge back to find their youngest sons what they found at starved camp was horrific by the whole in the snow was the butchered body of Elizabeth Graves and a pile of child sized bones that had once been Franklin Graves Junior. The third relief were faced with a problem Mary Donner and the graves children were strong enough to continue with the Breen's. Were too weak to make get through the mountains without help carrying them. The whole way back would mean splitting their party up leaving only a few to go ahead to the lake camp. They took a vote on whether to leave the brains behind all but one voted to leave the Breen's. The outlying vote was from a man named John Stark the next morning the party Split Eddie Foster and two others continued going East you want another two men took Mary Donner and the infant Elizabeth Graves John Stark took charge of the remaining graves children and all the breen's the children took turns writing on his back on March Thirteenth William Eddie and William Foster arrived arrived at truckee lake several weeks after they had left it they made for the murphy cabin where Reid had told them their children lived their two sons. Were nowhere to be seen. They only found Levine Murphy her son. The three youngest donner girls and Louis Keys Berg Eddie Confronted Keys Berg demanding to know what became of their sons keys Berg told him the two boys had died and been eaten Eddie was infuriated. He almost killed keys. Berg on the spot. He stopped stopped himself reasoning that he would not kill a starved man on a rescue mission instead. He promised to kill him if they ever met again in California foster and eddy left the cabin where they encountered tamsin donner stumbling through the woods she had come from their camp looking for her children. Eddy in foster escorted her to the Murphy cabin allowing her a brief reunion with her three young girls. Tamsin was overjoyed. They were still alive and insisted they go with the rescue. Group uh-huh Eddy in foster attempted to persuade Thompson to come with him but Thompson insisted that she be allowed to take one last visit to the alder a creek camp to save George Donner was still alive. Eddy in foster could not wait their group left immediately leaving Tam Samson behind she began the arduous trudge back to Alder Creek where her husband still stubbornly clung to life by this point his arm was completely rotten with gangrene and he was barely conscious he to insisted tamsin go with the rescuers skewers but she would not let him die alone. Only four members of the Donner Party remained in the two camps Thompson and George Donner remained in their tent by Alder Creek in a cabin by the lake one man and one woman remained remained who were too weak to travel the starved Levine Murphy and an increasingly desperate Louis Keys Berg when we return these four final members of the Donner Party reach a gruesome end now the conclusion solution to the story by mid March eighteen forty seven the horrors of the Donner party were almost just at an end three arduous rescue expeditions had attempted to bring the encamped survivors across the Sierra Nevada due to continuing continuing harsh weather and the bare minimum of supplies. Many of the survivors had died during transit and even more died by the lake while they're rescued family members were taken to safety by the time William Eddie and William Foster caught up with the remainder of the third relief leave. There were only a few stragglers left at the camp as far as they knew George and Tamsin Donner remained by Alder Creek and Lavina Murphy was living by Truckee Lake. With Louis Keys Berg Eddy in foster encountered a camp on the other side of the mountains accompany led by Salem Woodworth Eddie told Woodworth. There were four people who still needed to be rescued but the man refused is to go back for them. His priority was to transport those who had already been rescued to Johnson's ranch the first settlement on the west side out of the Sierra Nevada's when the survivors gathered at the ranch. They took stock of their situation. Most families were in tatters ragged and diminished incredibly both the Breen and the read families were completely intact though they still required weeks weeks to fully recover from their starved state the reeds were the only members of the party who had not cannibalized their fellow members to survive on April thirteenth a fourth and final relief. If party set out east toward Truckee Lake led by William Grow Fallon and experienced mountain man the only member of the Donner party to go back with them was William Foster who wanted to see if Levine Murphy his mother-in-law was still alive they were also joined by reason pete he tucker who had led the first relief fallon and the new members of the party were largely motivated by the rumors of gold in the donors possession which would have been left unclaimed in the Alder Creek camp. They signed an agreement saying they were allowed a percentage of whatever valuables they found in the camp they arrived on April seventeenth. Seeing the camp again. Reason Tucker Kerr wrote in horror death and destruction horrible site human bones women's skulls so to get the brains better dwell in the midst of alarm than to remain in this horrible place foster and Tucker research the cabins for survivors fallon and the others searched for money and trinkets soon they came across Levine Murphy lying hang in the snow. One of her limbs removed the saw still lying by her body. Their search uncovered no survivors or or gold after two hours of scouring the camp. They headed to the elder creek tents. It was an even more horrific sight. Bits and pieces of human bodies were scattered about the tents kettle inside the main tent was filled with chunks of meat cut cut from the bodies nearby. They found George Donner's severed head. Donner skull had been split open in the brains reins completely removed fallon packed up as many of the valuables as he could find but there was still no sign of Donner's. I gold what they did. Find were a series of tracks in the snow heading away from the Donner camp. The tracks led to the cabin that had been constructed by Franklin graves inside they found Lewis Keys Berg. He was alive but almost feral when asked where Tamsin Donner was cheeseburger told them with detached frankness that she was dead and Eaten Fallon interrogated keys Berg demanding to know where the donners money was. He's Berg said he didn't know of any money. The men didn't believe him. They searched every inch of the cabin and found several of the donner silks. George Donner's pistols in two hundred twenty five dollars worth of gold coins on keys. Burg's person rumor had it the George Donner had almost ten thousand dollars worth of coin when he departed from Illinois suspicious. The keys Berg had hidden rest. They insisted he explained himself. Keys cheeseburger told the men that Levine Murphy had only lived for about a week after the last relief party had left. He claimed to have waited four days is before butchering and eating her body out of necessity by his own admission keys. Berg had been driven nearly mad by the staring is of his deceased companions since he was too weak to remove their bodies from his cabin in an interview years later he said I am fluent with four different languages yet in all four. I do not find words enough to express the horror. I experienced during those two months. Many a time I had the muzzle of my pistol in my mouth and my finger on the trigger the faces of my helpless dependent wife and child would rise up before me and my hand would fall powerless. He told Fallon that after weeks of surviving on the lean human meat he encountered Tamsin Donner coming back from the Alder Alder Creek Camp. Her husband had died and she was intent on crossing the mountains herself but when she made the attempt she fell into to a creek and cottage chill. She made keys. Berg promise her that he would save their gold for her children. The men did not believe keys burke mark according to read Tamsin Donner had been in relatively good health when they left her her sudden death didn't seem likely they left left keys. Berg behind and resume their salvaging a day later. They returned to keys Bergh's cabin. Their second interrogation was far less gentle than the first fallon's men through a noose around keys Burg's neck and kicked him to the floor threatening coming to hang him if he didn't tell the truth choking keys. Berg promised to show them where the rest of the donners money was. If they would spare his life he led them to a cache of silver pieces buried near the tents Alder Creek these worth about two hundred seventy three dollars well over seven thousand dollars in today's money years later keys. Berg admitted to burying the silver but he insisted he had done on this for safekeeping with the intention of eventually delivering it to the surviving donors satisfied that they weren't going to turn up anything nothing else at this god-forsaken camp the fourth relief made their way back. West with Louis Keys Berg limping behind them. The only member of the fourth relief who treated keys Berg with any degree of warmth was reason Tucker he allowed keys Berg to use some of his supplies as they made the return journey only a few months earlier. Tucker had escorted keys Burg's wife along that very same trail. Oh he knew that the man had some heart breaking news awaiting him on the other side of the mountain but keys Berg did not have to wait that long long during the trek keys Berg found a fireplace that had belonged to one of the previous parties thinking it was a good place to rest he set about heating himself some coffee the snow around the fire melted revealing a bit of CALICO fabric poking through curious cheeseburger dug into it and found the remains of his infant daughter Ada who tucker had buried in that same spot hot almost two months earlier despite their animosity towards him the fourth relief protected keys. Berg like one of their own in an interview years later keys. Berg credited one of them with saving his life. I happen to be sitting in camp alone afternoon. I was congratulating myself upon my escape from the mountains when I was startled by a sniffling growling noise and looking up I saw a large grizzly bear only a few feet away. I knew I was too weak to attempt to escape and so remained where I sat expecting every moment he would devour me. Keyes Berg was startled by the blast of a rifle. The fair fell over Dead Shot William Foster when the fourth relief arrived at Johnson's ranch on April Twenty Ninth Keys Berg was the last last member of the Donner Party to cross the mountains of the eighty nine men and women who had begun the journey forty one had died ride this death toll included all four of the Donner family adults George Tamsin Jacob and Elizabeth two-thirds two thirds of the parties men and one third of the women and children the only families that remained intact where the brains and the reads the rest had sustained horrible losses the survivors of the Donner Party who made it to California settled the wildland Dan. They had fought so hard to reach James Reid managed to acquire a large portion of land in the Santa Clara Valley though he was never tried for the murder of Jon Snyder James Reid remained bitter about his own role in the Donner party disaster. He wrote in eighteen forty forty seven. Our misfortunes were the result of bad management head. I remained with the company. I would have had the whole of them. Over the mountains before the snow would have caught them and those who have got through have admitted this to be true the orphan children of Georgia and Tamsin Jason Donner were taken in by other families including the reads Jacob Donner's remained orphans William Eddy who lost his whole family remarried and settled in Petaluma California the Breen's settled in what would become San Benito county where they prospered as prominent members of the community though most of their neighbors hardly knew what they had been through to get there but not all of the Donner Party survivors had happy endings. Lewis Keys Berg was reunited with his wife at Sutter's fort but but his spoiled reputation followed him for the rest of his life when he arrived at Sutter's Fort Keys Berg was called a murderer for the death of Thompson Donner he brought legal action against William Fallon for slander during the trial Fallon alleged keys Burg's involvement with no less than six murders including Tamsin Donner and the Child George Foster and yet the jury declared accuse Berg innocent. He was awarded one dollar in damages. Some sources claim that William Eddie tracked keys Berg Down in San Francisco and attended to kill him in retribution for eating Eddie son James Reid stopped him from doing so the worst of the rumours that followed him were that he had enjoyed eating human meat at the donner camp he vehemently denied this but became a social social pariah nonetheless every one of his business ventures failed this included a hotel that burned down and a brewery that flooded flooded his wife and all but one of his daughters died before him he died penniless and friendless in eighteen ninety five live the last survivor of the Donner party Isabel Breen died on March twenty fifth nineteen eighteen thirty five at the age of eighty nine. She was one year old when their parents took her across the Sierra Nevada Mountains Lansford transferred hastings the man who set the Donner Party on the path to failure and was arguably the reason for their horrible fate remained involved with their lives in the years that followed he worked with James Reid and donate to orphanages the donner children stayed at but never expressed any remorse the misleading information he put in the emigrant's guide the California and Oregon in fact his penchant for poorly thought out plans continued throughout the rest of his life during the civil war hastings served as a major in the confederate army after their defeat he set out to to found a confederate colony Brazil with the aim of writing the emigrant's guide to Brazil. He died on route today. The Donner Party is remembered as one of the most infamous disasters in the era of Western migration too many who grow up in California the name Donner is synonymous with starvation cold and cannibalism and even if you've never heard of them their name now adorns the very land killed almost half their group the lake were were. They wasted away with nothing but hope to keep them going now. Bears the name of its survivors and the gap between the mountains were so many of them perished from hunger and hypothermia is now known as Donner Pass. Thanks for listening to survival join US next week for a new episode you can find more four episodes of survival and all other podcasts originals for free on spotify. Not only the spotify already have all your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you. Enjoy all your favorite podcast originals likes survival for free from your phone desktop or Smart Speaker History M- survival survival on spotify just open the APP and type survival in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you next time. Survival was created by Max Cutler is a production of cutler media and as part of the park cast network. It is produced by maximum. Ron Cutler sound design by Andy Weights with production assistance by Ron Shapiro and Paul Moller additional production assistance by Maggie admire and Freddie Beckley. This episode of survival was written by Robert Team Stra and stars Irma Blanco and Tim Johnson you if you haven't listened yet be sure to check out the podcast original natural disasters it tells the stories of the Earth's worst catastrophes acts of nature that took countless countless lives destroyed communities and toppled civilizations. We like to think we're prepared for a catastrophe but time and time again mother nature proves US wrong follow natural disasters for free on spotify anywhere you listen to podcasts.

Lewis Keys Berg Berg Donner Party Tamsin Jason Donner George Donner starved camp Sutter Tucker Patrick Breen California Levine Murphy James F Reid Truckee Lake Lake Camp Donner camp Margaret Margaret Reid Mrs Graves Graves Louis Keys Berg Eddy Jon Snyder James Reid Thompson Donner William Etty William Foster Sa Georgia Donner
February 19, 2020: Donner Party Relief

Today in True Crime

12:49 min | 8 months ago

February 19, 2020: Donner Party Relief

"Today is Wednesday February nineteenth twenty twenty on this day in eighteen forty seven. The first relief party began the arduous rescue of the Donner Party. Who'd been snowbound beyond the Sierra Nevada mountains? The entire winter many of those who survived did so by eating the dead. Some of whom died under suspicious circumstances. Welcome to today in true crime podcast. Original. I'm Vanessa Richardson and today. I'm joined by our guest host. Carter Roy you may recognize Carter from other podcast favorites including a few shows. We posted together Everyone as always. It's great to be working with you. Vanessa I have a passion for crime stories. Actually I just launched a brand new true crime show killer knowledge every week two players go head to head in Trivia like all the best game shows the audience can play along testing your own true crime knowledge. I joined Carter for an episode myself and we had a fantastic time. I even learned a few new facts but today. Carter's you to discuss some historical aspects of the Donner Party. While I'll cover the narrative thrilled to dive into the Donner Party. Controversial crimes like this fascinate me. Due to the graphic nature of today's crimes listener discretion is advised this episode contains discussions of cannibalism. Extreme caution is advised for listeners. Under thirteen now. Let's go back to the evening of February nineteenth. Eighteen forty-seven as the relief party crosses truckee lake. Captain Reason P Tucker marched resolutely over the ice beside him. The six members of his group were silent. They had traveled for fourteen days and four of their initial party had turned back due to fatigue. Those that remained were discouraged but continued nevertheless as far as they knew there were sixty five settlers in need of rescue just beyond the water if only they could find them as the sunset. The Relief Party reached the eastern end of the lake. They saw no cabins. Only dark lumps scattered about in the snow bodies. Many only half buried all skeletal. The men called out to the desolate icy landscape. A moment passed then. Something stirred a woman rose up from a hole in the snow. Daniel Rhodes approached the woman as other figures emerged from beneath the frost as they drew closer. The men realized that the cabins had been completely submerged in the snow banks when the first woman spoke to them. Her voice was hollow from disuse and starvation. She asked are you men from California or do you come from heaven. This woman was Lavina Murphy. A widow who had joined the party with her family of thirteen in May of the previous year by this point that family had dwindled severely. Levinas sixteen year old son. John had died twenty one days earlier her infant granddaughter. Catherine would die a day after the relief party arrived her other son twelve year. Old lyme. You'll murphy had left two months earlier with a party. Searching for help. Captain Tucker told her that her son had made it to California along with all the others. This was a lie won. The Relief Party repeatedly told the eager family members in truth of the fifteen men and women who set off to get help only seven survived them. You'll murphy had died of hypothermia the day after Christmas. His body was cooked and eaten by the others. Thirty three years later historian. Charles mcglashan surmised had the dreadful truth been told not one of all. This company would ever have had courage to attempt the dangerous journey. Reason P Tucker made his way to the other cabins checking within to see the state of the survivors. The results were grim. Most of the living were barely strong enough to stand and some were on. Death's door Tucker. And his men spent the night distributing modest quantities of food to the emaciated migrants the next day three of the rescuers reason Tucker John Roads and RS matry travel to the northeast to another small encampment by Alder Creek. Elisa Donner recalled. I did not see anyone coming that morning but I remember that. Suddenly there was an unusual. Stir and excitement in the camp. Three strangers were there and one was talking with my father. Her Father George Donner was in a sorry state. His arm was black with gangrene from an infected injury on his hand. He wasn't going anywhere. His wife Tamsin despite being relatively healthy would not leave his side but they could not pass up the opportunity to send at least some of their children to safety in the end. Three of the seven donner children went with the man. The rest would have to wait for another Relief Party. Even for those left to wait. It seemed like the arrival of Captain Reason. Tucker and his men would be the end of their suffering but there were still many horrors on the horizon for the Donner Party. Which made their winter. Months seem tame by comparison up next. We'll discuss the historical details surrounding the Donner Party. And how they escaped their fate podcast listeners. We realize that there are a lot of podcast shows to choose from each day and sometimes not enough time to sort through them. All in our new feed park cast daily we filter through your favorite podcast series to highlight the most timely and relevant episode premiering. Each day every Monday through Friday. Discover a new and captivating episode curated specifically for you. That's one new episode from our slate of content handpicked with you in mind. Time is precious. And we've got you covered follow. Park cast daily free on spotify. Or wherever you get your podcasts you can check out more. Par cast shows and a full library of episodes in spotify by searching for par cast in the spotify search bar or by going to spotify dot com slash. Podcast now back to the story on February nineteenth eighteen forty seven. The first relief party reached the Donner Party and began the arduous process of rescuing them from their snowbound camp. It's worth noting. That accounts vary on the exact date of the first reliefs arrival accounts written closer to the actual event. Such as Charles mcglashan book say they arrived on the nineteenth while some more contemporary accounts say they crossed the lake a day earlier however the diary of the First Relief Party kept by Captain Tucker places the Group on the summit on February eighteenth seeming to confirm the former date. My guest host. Carter is here to discuss. The history surrounding the Donner Party's infamous track and how it went so horribly wrong. Thanks when the Donna Reed Party set out for California in the summer of eighteen forty six. It was brimming with optimism. These were families who left their homes. Missouri's seeking religious freedom economic opportunities and cheap land to build a farm. But the Donner Party's plan was built on a misguided foundation. The map they used to guide their way was the emigrants guide to Oregon and California written by Lansford Hastings and explorer. Who never actually traveled the route. He endorsed the quickest path to California hastings misinformation. Put the Donner party behind schedule. Eventually they found themselves snowbound by Truckee Lake on the wrong side of the Sierra Nevada mountain range. The journey put profound amounts of stress on everyone involved leading to fights theft and a number of murders. James read one of the original leaders of the group was exiled early on for stabbing a teamster to death. And William Foster would later kill two of their native American guides for food but the most gruesome crime committed during this whole event may not have happened until mid March eighteen forty seven. The Third Relief Party left only four individuals alive George and Thompson. Donner Levine Murphy and unpopular German migrant named Luis Keys Berg by the time the next rescue party reached the camps only keys. Berg remained. George Donner likely died of gangrene that infected his arm. But TAMSIN and Levine. Murphy's deaths were far more suspicious. All three had been at least partially eaten by keys. Bird was found with some of the donner money on his person he claimed to be saving it for George Donner surviving children when he reached California keys. Berg was accused of six murders but no charges were ever officially brought and he successfully sued his accusers for slander. Receiving one dollar of damages. But the story lived on the Donner Party story would go down in history for the lurid details namely the cannibalism today. This horrifying story of starvation has been to a punchline. History has a way of turning horrific experiences into humor. But maybe if you ever find yourself driving from Nevada to California in the dead of winter you should check to make sure your car won't run out of gas. I'm Vanessa Richardson. Thanks again Carter for joining me today. Thanks for having me. You can find my new podcast killer knowledge on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. If you WANNA learn more about the Donner Party be sure to listen to the podcast. Original survival were recovered. Their arduous journey in a three episode series today in true crime is a podcast. Original can find more episodes of today in True Crime. And all other podcast originals. Freon spotify not only spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals. Like today in true crime for free from your phone. Desktop or smart speaker to stream today in true crime on spotify. Just open the APP and type today in true crime in the search bar at par cast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram? At podcast and twitter at podcast network will be back with a brand new episode tomorrow in True Crime. Today in true crime was created by Max Cutler and is a podcast studios original it is executive produced by Max Cutler sound designed by Karie Murphy with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden Aaron Larson and Joel Stein. This episode of Today. True crime was written by Robert Teams. Draw with writing assistance by Nora. Battelle I'm Vanessa Richardson.

Donner Party Donner Levine Murphy Relief Party George Donner First Relief Party California Carter Roy spotify Captain Tucker Vanessa Richardson Elisa Donner Third Relief Party Tucker John Roads Luis Keys Berg Captain Reason P Tucker Sierra Nevada mountains donner Charles mcglashan gangrene Vanessa I
Best of 2019: The Donner Party Pt. 3

Survival

51:49 min | 10 months ago

Best of 2019: The Donner Party Pt. 3

"The following episode contains descriptions of starvation murder and cannibalism that some listeners may find offensive listener discretion is advised especially for children under under thirteen January twenty first eighteen forty seven. It felt like the cold would never end Elisa. Williams uh-huh trudged through the snow legs aching with each step. The twenty five year old woman had come on the journey west with the read family as their cook. Her brother and Albino man named bayless had been working as a handyman for the reads as well. It was good employment and the two of them had looked forward to a bright future in California but once they arrived in truckee river valley. Everything went horribly wrong. The entire Party became became snowed in with supplies diminishing rapidly at first bayless and Eliza took care of the children but only a month after getting caught in the valley. Bayless died of fever. He was the first to perish at the Lake Camp as rations thinned. Elisa found her own position even more tenuous having their own cook had once been a luxury reads could afford but now that food food such a scarce resource. She was merely another mouth to feed. She had to fend for herself. When Elisa Elisa finally reached the breen family's cabin she pleaded with the occupants to give her a bit of beef? She couldn't stomach the scraps of ox. Hide Mrs Graves Graves had given her. She received sympathy but nothing else. Patrick Breen's diary noted simply Elisa will not eat it hides Mrs read sent her back to live or die on them. Welcome to survival. Apar- cast original. I'm your host Irma Blanco. And I'm Tim Johnson every Monday. We'll take view inside incredible true stories of life or death situations you can find episodes of survival and all other podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream survival for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type survival in the search bar at podcast. We're grateful for you our our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network and and if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review. Wherever you're listening it really does help? This is our third and final episode on the Donner Party. A group over eighty would be settlers who became trapped on their way to the largely unclaimed territory of California this tweak. We'll follow the remaining survivors to the end of their journey after slaughtering almost all of their livestock for food and getting buffeted by multiple snowstorms. The men and women of the Donner Party faced the likely prospect that they would be trapped in the truckee river valley for the rest of the winter. Many of the group including the leader of the party. Ready George Donner were too weak to travel the rest had to weigh their options. Would they attempt to brave the elements and risk dying in the cold or stay with their families and risk starvation on December sixteenth. A group group of fifteen men and women nicknamed the forlorn hope set out to summit. The Sierra Nevada mountain range that had blocked their path though. Some uh-huh still in the camp prayed they would return with help soon. Others took matters into their own hands. Margaret Reid whose husband James had been expelled eld from the company for murder set out from the camp on January fourth hoping to climb the SIERRAS and catch up with the forlorn hope. Five days later she returned unsuccessful by January. The emigrants had been stranded in the valley for two months. Living in cabins utterly buried in snow banks. Everyone in the camp was week. Six had perished. Death seemed to hang over the entire camp as they waited for the next member to succumb to starvation or the bitter cold on the morning of January twenty fifth. Those those living in the brain cabin heard a cry of despair from the adjacent shelter where the German immigrant Louis Keys Berg had been living with his wife and two children. Even no one in the party was particularly fond of keys Berg. He was harsh and inconsiderate man. Who many believed was abusive toward his wife? But on that morning it was hard not to be sympathetic towards the man. He's Burg's son Louis Keys. Berg junior had died in the night Patrick Breen who had been keeping a daily diary all winter wrote on January twenty. Sixth those who went to Sutter's not yet returned provision growing scant people growing week living on a small allowance of hides pretty much. The only food they had left were the ox hides. They had been using his blankets or tent covers. Families tore them up into strips and cooked them mm-hmm or boiled them to make an insubstantial stu even to the starving settlers. It was barely edible. They had no way of knowing that just one hundred miles to the west seven of their traveling companions had made their way to safety and were preparing a rescue expedition. Addition a pioneer named reason. Pete Tucker was at Sutter's fort when he heard that a group of Donner Party survivors. I had reached Johnson's ranch with the help of John. Sutter Tucker gathered all the men and supplies he could and set off to meet those who lead miraculously survived. When they rode into Johnson's ranch? In early February they found seven members of the forlorn. Hope William Etty William Foster Sarah Foster and four other women recovering in Johnson's care. Most of them were still too weak to travel. None of them mentioned that they had eaten their deceased companions to survive. Only William Etty volunteered to lead Tucker's men back over the SIERRAS. Eddie was still frail and malnourished but as far as he knew his wife Eleanor and his children Margaret and James were starving by the lake camp waiting for his return he did not want to waste any time resting on February fourth. The first I relief party of fourteen men set off from Johnson's ranch that same day by the Lake Camp Margaret Eddie starved to death Tucker kept a diary during the first few days of the rescue expedition. His first entry on February fifth eighteen forty forty seven was unenthusiastic about their progress. First Day traveled ten miles. Bad roads often miring in down horses and Mules Tucker continued to write on the sixth and seventh traveled. Fifteen miles road continued. He knew bad commenced raining before we got to camp and continue to rain all that day and night very severe even if they got to the lake camp soon they'd have to fight the harsh winter in both directions. Fortunately for the trapped emigrants. This policy was not the only one headed their way. James F read exiled member of the Donner Party had had been fighting in the Mexican American war while his family was snowbound. In the Sierra Nevada's he participated in the Battle of Santa Clara hoping that if the war ended swiftly he would be able to gather men to rescue the Donner Party but shortly after the battle he received a letter from William. Am Big Bill mccutcheon. Who was in Napa Valley gathering men and supplies to rescue his infant daughter? Harriet from the mountains. This letter tersely slee read. You had better come in haste as there is no time to delay on February seventh. James read left San Francisco for cinema determined determined to join up with mccutchen three days later on February tenth the First Relief Party began to pass through the snow covered. Parts parts of the mountain tucker recorded in his diary animals floundering in snow and camped at the Mule Springs the elevation and was three thousand eight hundred forty nine feet and the pack animals. Were not the only one. Struggling William Etty strength was flagging and as the snow piled up around him and the ground grew steeper. He realized he didn't have the energy to make it up the mountain on February eleventh seventh. He reluctantly took the pack mules and went back down the slope on February. Eighteenth the rest of the group reached the summit of the Sierra Nevada. Vada overlooking Truckee Lake the entire Canyon was white with snow. Not a single cabin was visible by the lake. Without William Eddie to guide them Tucker had no way of recognizing the camp but they descended anyway making their way down the mountains and across cross the frozen surface of the lake. By their estimation the snow was around eighteen feet high. Any cabins would be completely completely buried. The men shouted across the snowbanks praying that they hadn't arrived too late at the sound of a human voice. Figures began to appear. Daniel Rhodes a member of the first relief described his first. I shocked impression of the Donner Party. We saw a woman emerged from a hole in the snow as we approached her. Several others made their appearance. They were gaunt with famine. And I never can forget the horrible ghastly sight. They presented this first woman and they saw thirty five year. Old Levine Murphy cried out to the rescuers in a hollow voice are you men from California or did you come from heaven. The camp was a grisly sight. Eleven had died so far and bodies lay scattered about the camp half buried in the snow. The families of the deceased barely had the strength to drag the bodies a few feet away from their shelters alongside the bones of their slaughtered walks in the party distributed. Small portions of food among the Murphy Cabin being careful not to overfeed the shrunken survivors. Later that evening Tucker spied another column of smoke. Rising from a hole in the snow half a mile to the South Tucker reached the smokes origin around eight pm it was coming from the graves. Cabin Tucker was greeted by starved served Elizabeth Graves who had watched her husband and two oldest daughters leave over two months ago. She asked Tucker where Franklin was and whether author He Sarah Mary Ann and Jay had gotten through Tucker told her that they had made it but were to frozen to make the return journey. This was only a partial truth as both Franklin and Jay had died during the trip tucker reason that admitting the full truth breath disheartened Elizabeth and her remaining children. Even further Elisabeth was suspicious automatically fearing the worst had happened to her family early. The next day Tucker and the others traveled northeast to the Alder Creek Camp there. They found the Donner family with only a single ox. Yes Hi between them for Food Tamsin Donner and her recently. Widowed sister in Law Elizabeth had twelve children between them who they struggled to feed thompsons husband. George was bedridden his entire right arm infected from a cut on his hand Tucker explained to the women that they can only bring enough food for a couple of days. He told them they needed to bring everyone who could walk out of the Valley of the whole whole group Thompson. Donner was in the best condition. Physically she still had enough energy to walk about their tent while the rest of her family was reduced crawling but despite her relative strength she would not go with him. She couldn't leave her husband. Behind between the two camps at Alder Creek and Truckee Lake. Many did not have the strength to leave Lewis Keys. Berg Berg had a foot injury that prevented him from walking but his wife Philippine would make the journey with their three year old child. Ada leaving her crippled and bitter husband. Behind on February twenty-second a party of twenty two survivors. Set off across the lake. This included Margaret Reid. Who is determined to break out of the mountains? Whatever the cost but two of her children three year old Thomas and eight-year-old? Patty were too weak to go. Very Far Tucker told Margaret that the two children would have to return to the cabins. Many years later leanna donner would dictate a vivid description of this journey to her children. In her words we were a sad spectacle to look upon as as we left the cabins. We marched along in single file. The leader wearing snowshoes and the others following after all stepping in the leaders tracks Iraq's we replaced on short allowance of food from the start and each day. This allowance was cut shorter and shorter until we received not for our evening and morning. Meal two small pieces of jerked beef about the size of the index finger of the hand with food supplies. Running low tucker feared that the entire group would perish. He decreed that everyone would be on half rations and for the rest of the journey but even effectively budgeting their food stores could not keep death at bay soon after their departure the infant Ada cheeseburger died having just buried her son. Louis Junior less than a month earlier Philippine was not prepared to lose. It was her second child. She clutched the baby to her breast refusing to let her go as the rest of the party moved on reason Tucker sat down beside Philippine and asked her if she could give him the child and join the others reluctantly. She complied in Tucker's own words after she was out of sight roads and myself buried the child in the snow. Best we could. Her Spirit went to heaven and her body to wolves next the remnants of the Donner Party fight their way through the mountains while their families lays tried desperately not to starve now back to the story. By the time the first relief arrived at truckee delake on February eighteenth eighteen forty seven there were just over. Fifty members of the Donner Party. Left alive. Those who remained were were skeletal shells of their former selves. Barely able to crawl around their meager shelters. The twenty two strongest survivors started started west with the first relief. On February twenty-second the thirty three who remained included. The leader of the Party George Donner whose right arm had become severely infected from a cut on his hand. Nine months ago he had left Illinois with dreams of making his fortune in the new land of California. Now he couldn't even get out of bed heading back through. The mountains caused a great deal of stress. Ask for the Relief Party and survivors their food rations were utterly depleted and by February twenty. Sixth they were toasting their rawhide shoestrings. Oh strings for lunch. Aquilla Glover and John Rhodes set off a head of the group hoping to encounter another group of rescuers whereas on the way in an ironic twist of fate. Their relief party was in desperate need of relief. Shortly after glover over inroads returned with dried beef they had encountered a group of men coming the other way and had been sent back with supplies the two parties. He's met the next day as the new men introduce themselves Margaret. Reid heard a familiar voice. She rushed toward the head of the column followed by her children. Virginia and James Junior finally the figures of big bill mccutchen and James F. Reid came into view. View Margaret sank to her knees from exhaustion and her long lost husband stooped to embrace her. They had not seen each other since October October but the warmth of their reunion faded. When James read realized? Just how starved. His family had become uh-huh since their last meeting he wrote later. I cannot describe the death like look. They all had bread bread. Bread read was the begging of every child and grown person. Following the tearful reunion. James Reed told Margaret that he had took press on to the lake camp. He had a duty to rescue their last two children and had promised mccutchen that he would help him find his own child. So the read family parted ways once again. James continued on toward Truckee Lake while Margaret Virginia. And James Junior made for Sutter's fort. We have very few records of what happened at the Lake Camp. During this time the few records we do have indicate this is when the snowbound survivors began to turn to cannibalism. Lavina Murphy suggested to the Breen's that they eat the body body of milt Elliott a teamster who had died several days before Patrick Breen recorded this in his diary. I don't think that she she has done so yet. It is distressing. The donners told the California folks that they would commence to eat the dead people for days ago. I suppose they have done so air this time yet. Another tragedy awaited the rescue party heading for the Fort Twelve year old William Hook Stepson. Stepson of George Donner became Ravenous on the twenty eighth of February. He noticed that every night after distributing food rations to the party Tucker Tucker and the others hung the remaining supplies off a nearby tree that night Williams scaled the tree and broke into the food stores during the morning. Tucker and the others discovered the boy lying by the tree gasping his pockets full of dried beef. He died shortly after his shrunken digestive system. Unable to process the sudden abundance of food on March I read and mccutchen finally arrived at Truckee Lake. They had not seen their traveling companions since October and were heartbroken to see them so frail and near death the bodies that had been scattered around the camp ground. Amir week ago we're now bones. Read entered. Entered the Murphy Cabin. I an informed everyone within that they would need to leave in two days while the others prepared soup for the survivors reed and mccutchen reburied maccagnan's infant daughter Harriet. who died in early February? The next morning they pushed onto the donners honors camp. The Donner family was in a grim. St Elizabeth was lying in her tent by her children without the strength to move. You've in the other tent George. Lay death's door attended by Hamson. Their three children were healthier than either of the parents. According to Georgia Donner the adults had finally decided to prepare human flesh to feed the youngest children figuring they were too a young to taste it. She wrote father was crying and did not look at us during the time. As they had with the Murphys Reed and mccutchen and gave the donners food and told them that anyone who had the strength to come with them in two days must do so then. James read made his way back to the late camp to check the other cabins for stragglers on March third. James Reid returned to the late camp. Where where he met Lewis cheeseburger for the first time since his exile? The last time they saw each other keys Berg had suggested to the rest rest of the group that they hang read instead of exiling him but his read approach. The other man's withered figure. He made no mention of have their last bitter encounter instead. Read Bathed Keys Berg and gave him a fresh set of clothes keys. Berg said Reed had no oh animosity toward me. He found me too weak to move. He washed me combed my hair and treated me kindly indeed. He had had no cause to do otherwise keys. Berg showed some selective memory in his account never mentioning their previous quarrels. Perhaps his intention was to whitewash. His own reputation. Has James. Reid was no longer. The pariah had been when keys bird called for his death now now he was their savior and keys. Berg wouldn't want to be remembered as the man who tried to hang their rescuer before read left. He gave keys Berg a half pound of dried beef from his pack and a Half Tea Cup of flour. He told the German that he would return in two weeks and carry Harry him over the mountain. Then James Reid left the camp taking seventeen survivors with him. This included his two remaining children Patrick Breen and his family Elizabeth Graves and her children and three of the younger donner's he left behind behind three men to care for the survivors until the next expedition arrived as they went through the melting snow. The clouds darkened Arken overhead. Read jotted down some scattered thoughts in his journal night closing fast. The clouds still thickening terror terror to many my heart dare not communicate my mind to any depth to all it. Provisions do not come on March Fifth Jeff the blizzard hit the second relief huddled around the fire as the storm raged aged around them reed and mccutchen lead men to forage for firewood. The task grew increasingly difficult. As the weather intensified the fire continually melted the snow sinking deeper as the rescuers tried their best to shield the logs from the wind and snow. Eventually the whole in the snow was wide enough for everyone to lay within it. Sheltering them from the wind returning from a trip together would big big bill. mccutchen lay down next to the fire. He was so numb from the cold. He didn't notice his clothes. Ignite all four shirts. He was was wearing burnt off his back before he realized what was happening. He quickly doused the fire and amazingly he was only slightly singed at the same time. The other leader of the group James Reid was suffering far worse. He became almost completely snow blind line one day into the blizzard. The party were effectively stuck an almost completely out of food. On march seventh. The snowfall stopped read having recovered. Most of his site proposed. They forage forward but the Party. Hardy had suffered immensely over the three days during the chaos of the storm. Elizabeth Graves starved to death. Never learning that her tildren Marianne and Sarah were waiting for her on the other side of the mountains. She was joined in death by two five year olds her her son Franklin graves junior and Isaac Donner the son of Jacob and Elizabeth Donner out of options Reed Reed and mccutchen abandoned. Everyone who was too weak to go on the only survivors who could join them. Were reads to young children but the group of four had to continue on. They didn't WanNa give up and starve when they could bring more supplies back the whole that they he left the brains and graves in would later be known as starved camp. Patrick Breen watched them go praying. That another rescue party would pass them soon. He huddled with his family with no food. Save for the three bodies of their friends lying. Hang on the outside of the snow pit as read left. The eleven survivors in the mountains. Tamsin Donner received. You've terrifying news backed by Alder Creek. Elizabeth Donner had died days earlier in two of the men who had agreed to look after her family Charles Stone and Charles Katie. Were Planning on heading back West on their own fearing they would be abandoned. Tamsin promised to pay the men take her three remaining daughters over the mountains. The men agreed taking the six year old Francis four year old Georgia Zsa and three-year-old away with them however by the time they reached the lake camp they realized they could not carry the three children trend through such thick snow so they deposited the donner girls. In the Murphy Cabin. There were four living individuals in the Murphy. Cabin at the time. Levine Murphy. Her eight year old son Simon her one year old grandson George foster and the increasingly wild Lewis Skis Berg despite reads attempt to nurse him back to health keys. Berg had grown distant after being abandoned by his wife and surviving in daughter sometime after March. Eighth Keys Berg took the child George foster into bed with him extensively to keep the child warm. The next morning George was dead. Levine Murphy accused Keys Berg of killing the Child Keys Berg. Eric did not respond to these accusations. But merely laid the baby's body on the floor of the cabin and returned to bed sometime later. The donor girls saw keys burke walk over to George Foster's body pick him up and hang on a peg like a cut of meat. Uh Back at starved Camp Patrick Breen had given up all hope lying at the bottom bottom of the hole in the ground staring up into space. His wife Margaret kept their children alive on pitifully small doses of T. EH heated over the fire and Sweden's with the one lump of sugar. She had left but this barely took the edge off the ravenous hunger consuming assuming the eleven survivors one night. She woke Patrick in a panic saying that her baby was dying. Patrick Breen replied ride. Let Him die. He will be better off than any of US shortly after Charles Stone and Charles Katie passed by I on their way back from the lake camp. Seeing the three bodies in the snow they looked into the whole making eye. Contact with the emaciated survivors. I soldiered on unable to help at some point after they left. Desperate for any kind of sustenance. Mary Donner honor suggested that they start eating the dead days later on the afternoon UNIV- March twelfth. The third relief arrived at starved camp. This party was led by William Eddie and William Foster to surviving men. One of the forlorn hope they were both motivated by the same urge to find their youngest sons. What they found at starved served camp was horrific by the whole in the snow was the butchered body of Elizabeth Graves and a pile of child sized sized bones that had once been Franklin Graves Junior? The third relief were faced with the problem married honor and the graves was children. Were strong enough to continue. But the Breen's were too weak to make it through the mountains without help carrying them the whole way back would mean and splitting their party up leaving only a few to go ahead to the lake camp. They took a vote on whether to leave the brains behind all all but one voted to leave. The Breen's the outlying vote was from a man named John Stark the next morning. The party Split Eddie Foster and two others continued going east while another two men took Mary Donner and the infant Elizabeth Graves Sir. John Stark took charge of the remaining graves. Children and all the Breen's the children took turns writing on his back on March thirteenth. William Eddie and William Foster arrived at truckee lake several weeks after they had left it. They made the murphy cabin where Reid had told them. Their children lived their two sons. Were nowhere to be seen. They only found Levine. DIVINA Murphy Her son. The three youngest donner girls and Louis. Keys Berg Eddie Confronted Keys Berg demanding ending to know what became of their sons keys. Berg told him the two boys had died and been eaten. Eddie was infuriated fury aided he almost killed keys Berg on the spot he stopped himself reasoning that he would not kill a starved man on on a rescue mission instead. He promised to kill him if they ever met again in. California foster and Eddy left. The cabin happen where they encountered Tamsin donner stumbling through the woods. She had come from their camp looking for her children. Eddy in foster escorted her to the Murphy cabin allowing her a brief reunion with her. Three Young Girls Tamsin was overjoyed overjoyed. They were still alive and insisted they go with the rescue group Eddy in foster attempted to persuade Thompson to come with him but taxon insisted that she be allowed to take one last. Visit to the Alder Creek Camp to see if George Donner was still alive. Eddy the and foster could not wait their group left immediately leaving Tamsui behind she began the arduous trudge back to Alder Creek Creek where her husband still stubbornly clung to life by this point his arm was completely rotten with gangrene and and he was barely conscious. He to insisted Tamsin go with the rescuers but she would not let him die alone. Only four members of the Donner Party remained in the two camps Thompson and George Donner remained in their tent by Alder Creek in a cabin by the lake. One man and one woman remained. who were too weak to travel? The starved Levine Murphy and an increasingly desperate Louis Keys Berg when we return these four final members of the Donner Party reach a gruesome end now the conclusion to the story by mid March eighteen forty seven. The horrors of the Donner Party. Were almost at an end. Three arduous rescue expeditions had attempted to bring bring the camps survivors across the Sierra Nevada due to continuing harsh weather and the bare minimum of supplies. Many of the survivors had died during transit and even more died by the lake. While they're rescued family members. Were taken to safety by at the time. William Eddie and William Foster caught up with the remainder of the third relief there were only a few stragglers left at the camp as far whereas they knew George and Tamsin Donner remained by Alder Creek. And Levine Murphy was living by Truckee Lake with Louis Keys. Berg Eddy in foster encountered a camp on the other side of the mountains. A company led by Salem Woodworth. Eddie told Woodworth there were for people who still needed to be rescued but the man refused to go back for them. His priority was to transport those who had already been rescued to Johnson's ranch. The first settlement on the west side of the Sierra Nevada's when the survivors gathered at the ranch they took stock of their situation. Most families were in tatters ragged and diminished incredibly. Both the Breen and the read families were completely intact though they still required weeks to fully recover from their starved state. The the reeds were the only members of the party who had not cannibalized their fellow members to survive on April thirteenth a fourth and final relief party set out east toward Truckee Lake. Led by William League Grow Fallon Alan and experienced mountain man. The only member of the Donner Party go back with them. Was William Foster. Who wanted to see if Levine Murphy Fi? His mother-in-law was still alive. They were also joined by reason. P Tucker who had led the first relief fallon and the new you members of the party were largely motivated by the rumors of gold in the donners possession which would have been left unclaimed in the Alder Creek Camp. They signed an agreement saying they were allowed. A percentage of whatever valuables they found in the camp they arrived on April seventeenth. Seeing the camp again reason Tucker wrote in horror death and destruction horrible site human bones women's skulls Saad to get the brains better dwell in the midst of alarm then to remain in this horrible place foster and Tucker search the cabins for survivors fallon and the others searched for money trinkets. Soon they came across. Levine Murphy lying. In the snow one of her limbs removed the saw still lying playing by her body. Their search uncovered no survivors or gold. After two hours of scouring the camp they headed head to the Alder Creek tents. It was an even more horrific sight. Bits and pieces of human bodies were scattered about the tents kettle inside the main tent was filled with chunks of meat cut from the bodies nearby. They found George Donner's severed evert head Donner skull had been split open and the brains completely removed fallon packed up as many the of the valuables as he could find but there was still no sign of Donner's gold. What they did find were a series of tracks in the snow? Oh heading away from the Donner camp. The tracks led to the cabin that had been constructed by Franklin graves chiefs inside. They found Lewis Keys Berg. He was alive but almost feral when asked where Tamsin Donner was does. Cheeseburger told them with detached frankness that she was dead and Eaten Fallon Interrogated Keys Berg demanding to I know where the donners money was. He's Berg said he didn't know of any money. The men didn't believe him. They searched every inch of the cabin and found several of the Donner Silks George Donner's pistols in two hundred twenty five dollars worth of gold coins on keys. Burg's person person rumor had it. The George Donner had almost ten thousand dollars worth of coin when he departed from Illinois suspicious the keys Berg had hidden rest. They insisted he explained himself. He's Berg told. The men that Levine Murphy had only lived for about a week after after the last relief party had left. He claimed to have waited four days before butchering and eating her body out of necessity by his own own admission keys Berg had been driven nearly mad by the staring eyes of his deceased companions since he was too weak to remove their bodies from his cabin in an interview years later he said I am fluent with four different languages yet. In all all four I do not find words enough to express the horror I experienced during those two months many a time I had the muzzle of my pistol in my mouth and my finger on the trigger but the faces of my helpless dependent wife and child would rise up before perform me and my hand would fall powerless. He told Fallon that after weeks of surviving on lean human meat he encountered Tamsin Donner coming back from the Alder Creek Camp. Her husband had died and she was intent on crossing using the mountains herself but when she made the attempt she fell into a creek and cottage. Chill she made keys Berg promise her that he would save save their gold for her children. The men did not believe keys burke according to read Tamsin Donner had been in relatively good health when they left her. Her sudden death didn't seem likely they left keys Berg behind and resume their salvaging a day later where they returned to keys Bergh's cabin their second interrogation was far less gentle than the first fallon's men through a noose around keys Burg's neck and kicked him to the floor threatening to hang him if he didn't tell the truth choking he's Berg promise to show them where the rest of the donners money was. If they would spare his life he led them to a cache of silver pieces buried near the tents at Alder Creek these worth about two hundred seventy three dollars. Well over seven thousand dollars in today's money years later later. He's Berg admitted to burying the silver but he insisted he had done this for safekeeping with the intention of eventually delivering it to the surviving. Having daughters satisfied that they weren't going to turn up anything else at this god-forsaken camp. The fourth relief made their way eight back West with Louis Keys. Berg limping behind them. The only member of the fourth relief who treated keys Berg with any degree warmth was reason tucker. He allowed keys Berg to use some of his supplies as they made the return journey only a few months earlier. Her Tucker had escorted keys. Burg's wife along that very same trail. He knew that the man had some heart breaking news awaiting him on on the other side of the mountain but keys. Berg did not have to wait that long. During the Trek Keys Berg found a fireplace that had belonged to one of the previous parties thinking it was a good place to rest. He said about heating himself some coffee. The snow around the fire melted melted revealing bit of Calico fabric poking through curious cheeseburger dug into it and found the remains of his infant daughter. Ada Who Tucker had buried in that same spot almost two months earlier despite their animus towards him the fourth relief protected keys Berg like one of their own in an interview years later keys Berg credited one of them with saving living his life. I happen to be sitting in camp alone. One afternoon I was congratulating myself upon my escape from the mountains when I was startled startled by a sniffling growling noise and looking up. I saw a large grizzly bear only a few feet away. I knew I was too week to attempt to escape and so remained where I sat expecting every moment he would devour me keyes. Berg was startled the blast of a rifle. The fair fell over dead. Shot by William Foster when the fourth relief arrived. arrived at Johnson's ranch. On April Twenty Ninth Keys Berg was the last member of the Donner Party to cross the mountains of the eighty nine nine men and women who had begun the journey forty one had died. This death toll included all four of the Donner family adults adults. George Tamsin Jacob and Elizabeth two-thirds of the parties men and one third of the women and children the Only families that remained intact where the brains and the reads the rest had sustained horrible losses. The survivors survivors of the Donner Party. Who made it to California settled the wildland? They had fought so hard to reach James. Reid managed to acquire a large portion of land in the Santa Clara Valley. Though he was never tried for the murder of Jon Snyder James Reid remained bitter about about his own role in the Donner party disaster. He wrote in eighteen forty seven. Our misfortunes were the result of bad management. Had I remained with the company I would have had the whole of them over the mountains before the snow would have caught them and those who have got through have admitted committed this to be true. The orphan children of George and Tamsin Donner were taken in by other families. Including the reads Jacob Jacob. Donner's children remained orphans William Eddy. Who lost his whole family remarried and settled in Petaluma California and the Breen's settled? What would become San Benito county where they prospered as prominent members of the community though most of their neighbors hardly hardly knew what they had been through to get there but not all of the Donner Party survivors had happy endings? Louis Keys. Berg was reunited with his wife at Sutter's fort but his spoiled reputation followed him for the rest of his life when he arrived at Sutter's Fort Keys. Berg was called a murderer for the death of Thompson Donner. He brought legal action against William Fallon for slander. During the trial Fallon alleged keys Burg's involvement with no less than six murders including Tamsin Donner and and the Child George Foster and yet the jury declared keys Berg innocent. He was awarded one dollar in damages as some sources claim. That William Eddie tracked keys Berg Down in San Francisco and attended to kill him in retribution. For Eating Eddie Eddie Son James. Reid stopped him from doing so. The worst of the rumours that followed him or that he had enjoyed eating human meet at the Donner camp. He vehemently denied this but became a social pariah nonetheless every one of his business ventures failed this included a hotel that burned down and a brewery that flooded his wife and all but one of his daughters died before him. He died penniless and friendless in eighteen. Ninety five the last survivor of the Donner Party. Isabel Breen died on March twenty fifth nineteen thirty five at the age of eighty nine. She was one year old When their parents took her across the Sierra Nevada Mountains Lansford hastings the man who set the Donner Party on the path to failure and was arguably the reason for their horrible fate remained involved with their lives in the years that followed he worked with James Reid and donate to orphanages the Donner Children's stayed at but never expressed any remorse for the misleading information? He put in the emigrant's guide the California and Oregon and in fact his penchant for poorly thought out plans continued throughout the rest of his life. During the civil war. Hastings served it as a major in the confederate army after their defeat he set out to found a confederate colony. Brazil with the aim of writing the emigrant's Magritte's guide to Brazil. He died on route today. The Donner Party is remembered numbered as one of the most infamous disasters in the era of Western migration. Too many who grew up in California. The name Donner is synonymous honest with starvation cold and cannibalism. And even if you've never heard of them their name now adorns the very gary land killed almost half their group the lake were they wasted away with nothing but hope to keep them going now. Bears the name of its survivors and the gap between the mountains were so many of them perished from hunger and hypothermia is now no known as Donner Pass. Thanks for you're listening to survival. Join US next week. For a new episode you can find more episodes of survival and all other podcasts originals. For Free on spotify not only the spotify already. Have all your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all your favorite podcast originals like survival for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream survival on spotify. Just open the APP and type survival in the search bar and don't don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you next time. Survival arrival was created by Max Cutler is a production of cutler media. And as part of the podcast network it is produced by Maxon Ron Cutler sound design by Andy Weights with production assistance. By Ron Shapiro and Paul Moller additional production assistance by Maggie admire and Freddie Beckley. This episode Soda Survival was written by Robert Team Stra and stars Irma Blanco and Tim Johnson.

Louis Keys Berg Donner Party Thompson Donner George Donner starved camp Party Sutter Tucker Lake Camp Patrick Breen California Murphy Cabin Levine Murphy Donner camp Louis Keys James Tim Johnson Keys Berg Mrs Graves Graves Truckee Lake James F. Reid
Episode 332: The Donner Party Part II - The Forlorn Hope

Last Podcast on the Left

1:45:19 hr | 2 years ago

Episode 332: The Donner Party Part II - The Forlorn Hope

"No place to escape Tunis who's the lost on the left. Glade cannibalism started. Man, oh man, hungry, you are? No, what it comes down to. It's like, 'cause with the Donner party. Right? Three people. Right? And then they said, like, you know, starvation begins Kerr technically seven, eight nine days after you have eaten. Sure. That's when starvation starts to happen, your muscles skin dissolved, but like I'm hungry now. Right? And like forty five minutes ago. And if there was anything near me, honestly, I would just. So you're saying that you would just aggressively people if you were part of the Donner party with no concept of the fact that you actually look like a Harry Turkey reactive, strike. Make it you like they will just see you stuffed with an apple in your mouth because looking at building a fire, why is all this hearing hypnotic -ly at my this? The last podcast on the left I am Ben Kissel with markets. You say Ben Kissel. Okay. Become Irish. I converted last night. I had just the right amount of Jameson officially Irish. All right. And of course we have had Zabriskie. This story is still haunting me. I feel like a lot of people who are talking about this episode. I mean, like, you know, we do Ciro killers aliens and ghosts, and obviously we'd like to cover many things McLeod on the show. And I think that when we dip in a history, people sometimes forget like when you look back at it again, like upon reading indifferent stars above, it's just nothing but screaming. Yeah, it is the most brutal story we've come across besides the what's at the, the cement bound girl. Remember that Japanese story with the girl that was toward you. The Japanese cheerleader murderer or something like that. Yeah, girl girls unit, seven thirty. One also said that reminded me you saying Japanese reminded me of that as well. That was also pretty horrific history, history episode. But this what we're about to cover now is this is among the most harrowing tales in American history, and there are quite a few harrowing tales in American history. This is gonna get nasty folks, so we are onto it. It's the Donner party part to the bloody conclusion. Well, actually not so bloody because their bodies were completely frozen time. You got to the time. They got to the bodies. They were completely refers the frozen, bloody conclusion. Very good. Thank you. But Alford Packer was another famous cannibal which we kind of talking about like kind of cannibalism in the frontier times. It was actually nothing was common, but happened quite a bit and happened like, Weiss. That's points too many I'm going to say documented. And how many times did it happen? Five to six. Right though. That's a lot of time. Better. It's one time too many times. Okay. Alfred Packer was, we're gonna go to the herald Schecter wrote a whole book about Elford Packer, but it's very difficult to pin down the details of what exactly went down because there was just all we have is Alfred Packer story, but that's a really good thing to look into. If you want to look into like how fast could take one due to kill five other guys, the eat them, and then live off them for two and a half months little fucking snowstorm. All right. So when we last left the Donner party, they had failed to diverse what came to be known as Donner pass on their way through the Sierra Nevada's to their planned destination of California on the day of November. Third eighteen forty six. The advanced team had been met by a snowstorm on the mountain above Truckee lake. They camped out for the night, but when they awoke, they were all buried in snow, Yikes, the winter sleep. And apparently one of the lead dudes because like a grown man because at this point, I mean, it's been hot out there for a pioneer. All right. They're out there. They get stuck on. Okay, we're gonna make a big push. There were. Tired. They're like, okay, we're just going to sleep for the night because they were carrying the babies. And we've got so cold. All of the women, all the men were carrying all the children, which is half the camp right there. Wait trying to get them that they couldn't do it. So they went to sleep. And then the first one to wake up, woke up screaming, thinking that he was the only one left on the mountain because snow had covered everyone and they all just woke up like. Like if you've ever woken up in a yard after drinking all night. Well, I think if you wake up screaming these call that a frontier, rooster. Truckee lake also sounds like a place that you would go with your friends during your gingko phase smoke. Really bad swag hanging out at Truckee lake. We're talking about hubbub if we just made a band, that was all base. So the team decided it was best to head back down and the snowstorm that begun the day before extended itself for a further eight days before we truly get started on the tales of cannibalism. And I say, tales, implore all. It's important to know just how terrible the winter of eighteen forty six and eighteen forty seven actually. What's besides all the other hardships that donor party encountered? They were caught in the middle of one of the coldest winters ever recorded, not just in the Sierra Nevada's, but in the entire western hemisphere there in the middle of the thing called LA Nina, which is Spanish for. Remember that idea. Remember that the great Chris Farley sketch, I would say this could've done without that if you're on, if you're in this camp, just like really snowstorm, you have to laugh what you have to look at your first. This like Clark Griswold. My mandatory Clark will reference where he just starts freaking you just have to start laughing. Give me my boss tied with the boat and then it cuts Clark Griswold chopping off. Beverly DeAngelis, beautiful wrestle fucking spoke. Don't do that. As it's written about in the indifferent stars above, which again comes at the highest recommendation. It's so fucking good. It's so fucking good here. Some of the other tragedies that occurred that same winter and Nebraska, six hundred Mormons died of exposure, hypothermia or starvation. In a series of harsh blizzard sees in Ireland, the cold, that winter was one of the main factors that led to the great Irish potato. Hato famine which killed over a million people in. That's just the deaths in Oregon. The Columbia River froze solid in think of the fish. Think of. Became fish sticks crazy. And you know, the potato famine, all they had was potato that interesting it is. We learned this one episode. I forget what it was like five years. Explain to me with the data fan. I've been telling puff and a lot of history Lord, puffing support, deaf ear, toll the sound as far as what the Donners experienced, they endured no less than ten blizzards in the five months that they were either just outside or actually in the Sierra Nevada mountains, walking or living in snowfall that went up to twenty feet deep in some places. They didn't listen to anybody take a bit advice. This is what happens when you don't. If you're gonna pull people ask them what to do. You fucking shit happens. We'll how. Yeah. I mean, who how many people in the Donner party? Could you say you deserve this? It's entirely your fault and how many people were just following orders. The guy whose fault it really was. He'd already left. You took off. Axis while he had been banished James Rica. So yeah, James read and he had made it through the Sierra Nevada's. He made it through to the other side, but out of the other people, they were just kind of going along with it. We're going to follow with this guy. James Reed says, he seems to know what he's talking about. Also, I'm sick of every person that I look at. So let's please just partways as soon as we possibly can. So James Reid was the only person fighting in that war in Texas. Just thrilled to be there or in California, just thrilled to be there because he's at least not dying. Well, he was doing his duty and when you further read into it, you find out that he went to war because he had to do it in exchange for land and California is yet assigned. Basically, he had a volunteer for the war and then also got land as payment afterwards. And so he went just kind of figured at this point all they'll be fine because figured I was fine. Oh, they'll they will have gotten through with this point. Then. They were fucked. Yeah. Yeah. And he also figured I'm I'm going to need when my family does get through, I'm going to need to secure future for them. I'm gonna need care land and all that type of stuff. His family is still there. Yeah. His entire family is still on the other side of the lake. So when the advance party returned to Truckee lake, the search for shelter began now the Breen's who were the largest family. They were about the only ones to get somewhat lucky in that respect as they happened upon an abandoned cabin. All right. Others were able to build their own cabins like the foster Eddie pike families who squeezed sixteen people into a structure. They built into the site of a large rock near Truckee lake where three quarters of the party shelter. So what did they do? Did they chop down the trees and all that kind of winter? This is it. You don't go to an Anton Klickovic clearly shows up. They had to build all the shape. So the the Breen family guests, they found. A cabin, but I'm gonna use a quotation marks cabin and say that that was also built by somebody else that was stranded in a snowstorm. And so it was kind of half made. They still had a remake a whole roof by first killing half their oxen and skin them, and then putting pine bows over the top it to keep whatever he gets in this other thing they just built. These are. These are big Iraq. I don't know why he didn't like that, but I will say this flexible seal. It works. The different time. Well, three quarters of the party they were at Truckee lake. The other quarter of them made their camp about five miles away at Alder creek. That was where the Donner party stayed in as if just having their name, cursed for no real reason for generations to come wasn't bad enough. The Donner suffered, perhaps more than any other family really more these guys scream themselves to death. More than like the shit's family and the crapper. They live all lifestyle of until it money and and fuck money. Because thinking about it, wintertime, you legally say the word, fuck the fuck family gets two cents, really know that things went wrong, almost immediately for the Donners. One of their wagons tipped over and was damaged in the course of repair George Donner cut his hand which gotten -ffected and George would have to deal with the useless gangrene ass- limb for the entirety of his time in the wilderness Lord. Dude, it was like, so he cut his hand like first thing. And so I, I'm good. It's good. Well, were you guys is good and they're like, okay, sure. Okay, dad. And he went out to get firewood and he can't use the hands. Right? So they're like, no, we'll help us like, I'm fine, a strong man. Meanwhile, the affections calling up his arm and it keeps the, it's just so fucking size. So him one arm cover. Glick Holden lumber and crook of it. Adding to the while his helpless families just staring at him. See, that's the interesting thing of masculinity. It can be not good. I think he's using this. It's not. It's like when Henry was talking about how his father didn't believe in brushing teeth and that is that I haven't white my ass in thirty years of such a man with what these guys were all. There were. No, your arm is falling. And that is why the majority of people who died in the darn party where men. Oh, okay. Yeah. And George Donner Donner family. It wasn't just georgiana, earn his kids. It was George Donner his kids and George Donner's brother, Jacob and his family. But Jakup was they said, what did they say that he was not necessarily week? He was frail, okay, us frail, he was sickly. He was a reader. He was on the train school men like ole like these like, so were sleeping on these pioneered -als like, yes, this is the softest thing for miles. I like need a memory foam tongue to try to get my mandatory seven -solutely to make matters worse for the Donners. They tried building a cabin, but the snow fell so hard and fast that they were forced to abandon the construction and set up what they thought were three temporary canvas tent structures, but they would stay in those tents for the duration of I can feel it. I used to get frostbite all the time as a kid because I was like, I don't need a jacket three degrees in Wisconsin frostbite. I could just feel the pain that these people were having, which with you, Wisconsin people. I don't know anything with our friend. Adam Wirtz shorts. Yes, I, it's a point of pride. Okay. Can we have something. Others were no better off in the Donners. A lot of them blieved in lean-to's or in the cases of the single men, they were pretty much just exposed to the elements. Jeez, the single men got the raw deal of all really do. They were just left out there because they were the hired help. These are the guys they hired a help them, and so they would have to be which I still don't really understand how the hiring structure still holds in this scenario with. They were still technically working for the Donners and helping them put up the tents and put up all the cab and then they're like, okay, thanks, bye. Bye. And then they have to go to their quote unquote home, which was just laying in the dirt twenty yards from where the cabin one. Yeah. How are they getting paid every other Friday. I mean, how were they working when they just know we're going to start sleeping in the house? Well, Bill just wasn't enough room, and there was also some propriety because the house was filled with children. Okay, so, but that's those are easy to kill with Iraq. Say that all the time, and I feel like this with scenario you'd kind of be like, what if I just kill you and your whole family? And I have the cabin, which is where again, why I'm not a part of a wagon train. Well, not only was everyone living in these terrible structures, but food was scarce from the very beginning since most of the oxen and cattle had been run off killed or just plain died. There were only a few left for the duration of the winter and the livestock they did have. We're also starving. So the meat had barely any nutritional value. And even then once they butchered everything, the meat they had was going to run out in just a few weeks to understand the desperation. Here you got understand how many children were involved in this entire scenario. Okay. At the eighty, one people left in the Donner party of full half of them were children and most of the people on the expedition parents. So there was definitely a primal instinct at work there. Right? I'll tell you what man have you ever been on a Disney cruise though, or one of these, like carnival cruises or they allow kids know we're stuck on there with like, fuck and half kids, and you're on the ocean. For like two weeks. Yeah, man, I tell you what those kids go overboard. Real easy. I'm sure. Screaming and shit, we're Florida classy. So we haven't been in a lot of business cruise. And even though kids were used as a labor source, much more in those days to the point where laws had to be passed to limit the workday of kids, eight hundred to less than ten hours a day. It happened about five years before the Donner party. I mean, even though all that was happening, parents who didn't turn their kids over to the factories, they didn't love them or wanna protect them any less than parents do in modern times. A laugh. But yes, I mean, before you cared about them because they were great workers and it can fit their hands. Little gears needed less shoes, and you can put you can dress up and just wrap like weird little sack, throw him in there. And the best part is that the make more kids you get to do your favorite thing in the world, which is. Yeah. And then make your own little workforce with a lot of the farmers debt. That's right. And and it's, it kinda worked both ways because some of them had so many kids because the child mortality rate was so ridiculously high. But in some cases of just, for example, like the Breen's every kid they had survived. So they had like they were show regretting. Which one of you is gonna dot with, like the nine kids. The lived through the daughter party catastrophe, and then they died. Two weeks later get run over by fuck and wagon. How many times gets. This does not sound very fun. I'm just gonna say that say that, no. So as the resources of the camp, dwindled, a man named Franklin graves took charge and began leading escape missions. No, the first one failed to even get through the pass as did the one after that the weeks crawl by with no relief from the weather and most of the single men had already been reduced to eating mice and strips of buffalo hide from their rogues isn't as sound familiar ladies. What? What all the single men out there man, good for my with low hot. I know it is ladies kick him to the curb. He was wrong. That's all they had to eat all the good for men get a job. That's what I say. Get it out for what's happening out there. Mice doesn't seem that bad. Speak your buddy beef jer. It's not beef jerky first of all, it's not necessarily as what it's bad about. Eating mice is that my it was all they had to eat. You're talking. I mean, how much meat is on a mouse. That's what's one of those age-old questions. How much. Remember pudgy. Good. Yeah, budget was great. He was chubby. Yeah, but I mean, but those are just and that's and there's like what I think there was something like six or seven. The single guys? Yeah, they're eating mice and it's not, and it's absolutely not beef jerky that they're eating. They're eating rugs. They're eating. They're clo. And they have to oil them down until they become this jelly that you can consume this gray just flavourless stuff. You scrape at the bottom of the pot and you just put in your mouth and also these are full grown men. These are hardened of veterans out all this shit and it's like they are fighting over mice, not lazy, they would see one and go run off like it's Wendy when I throw a fucking toy. And this is like a full grown frontier, man. And there's something about that. That's very frightening to me is a bunch of full grown men with axes, fighting over tiny animals. It's gotta be weird being like, Henry come over here, tickle you guys take a look at my dump and then you're like looking at it, he's going to members only logo because they had to either members only. It's probably doesn't taste very good. They're just rayon now the none of that's leather anymore. Right? Yeah. And that the buffalo hide stuff that they were eating. Normally they would use that as glue. Oh, my God. All right. So not not good Yance against. Yeah. Okay. And no point is anything going to be good here? It's only gonna get all that. Keep getting worse until the end. They don't set up a six flags or anything like that. There's no, there's no fun turn around this become a resort. Is it safe as this is the highpoint Hyde morning? We're at the high point right now if you don't Caddyshack when they're about to lose the golf course, imagine it's that the entire time. All right now, mentally prepared, and you mentioned six flags, and that was something I kept thinking about when I was researching this, how boring was this? I mean, you got, I mean there's nothing to do your constantly starving. There's no activities you're not going to be gabbing with the people like it's just survive. But that's the thing. It's not even like just survival because there's nothing to survive on it. Sound like you're foraging, or you know who these guys needed Ryan styles. Enjoyment out of anything. They're doing party quirks. Whose line is that anyway? Shut up. Fuck up. What's more. The extreme cold meant that everyone's bodies had to work harder to stay warm, which burned more calories, which meant the people's bodies unwittingly started to cannibalize themselves before they started cannibalizing anyone else. Finally, in mid December, about six weeks in Franklin, graves couldn't stand look at the faces of his family any longer, and decided he would lead a team through the mountains at any cost. This guy was a fucking bat was I like Franklin graves a lot because he was like, fuck this, like my family's not dine out here like this. So the first thing he did was like, we need God damn snowshoes turning into and like just got his family workers. Everybody get up right in this. We're making snow shoes, and then kids would go on to make shoes from then on which I think was an important way to start. As long as the kids weren't the snow shoes? No, I'm fine with why did it take him so long to be like, I've had enough of this. What was why? Why not just do that initially because they couldn't figure out how to do it like they couldn't figure out how we're going to get through all the snow because it was damn near gone through this. Yeah, they thought might be done. They also thought like maybe we'll figure out of this. Maybe a rescue team will come, I see, but then it became apparent that nothing was going to happen. Also its first powder, snow, which is very difficult to move through. So they couldn't really figure that out and also another weird thing. And this is that technically they're supposed to follow a certain type of order in their own minds they have against. We talked about, it's the sense of propriety, George Donner was technically in charge, and he was kind of out for the count on the other side of the camp like they were forgot. Like how far away for the five miles laws, they were five miles away. So technically they had no leader. And so there was supposed to have somebody who kind of coalesce everything and Donner was gone, just dying in a tent. So Franklin, graves, fuck it. I'll believe we're gonna do it like this in the party that Franklin graves lead would be known to history as the four, Lauren hope. Not a good sign. As a matter of fact, there's no issues. No BNB there now called the four lower. Never stay in place called the forlorn hope. No, we're actually where they are right now is now Truckee Nevada, right, right. North of Reno. Okay. Very beautiful. Beautiful country said there. So graves and sixteen others, ten men, five women and two children set out through the pass on their homemade snow shoes. And there was no coming back from this one. They would either succeed or they would die, but they did have guides Charles Stanton had already been through the mountains three times before and they still had the me walk guides Luis and Salvador. They had only a small amount of beef, no extra clothes and no tents, but they thought this would be enough because the trip was only supposed to last six day snow. That's it. That's easy. Man. I do six days all the time, six days only part of the week. Sure. Small amount of beef is also going to be the name of my comedy better. The four, Lauren hope ended up stranded in the mountains for a month and a half my God not good. So where are we on the Fook scale right from like I forgot to DVR wheel last night. Oh my God. There are spiders. Michael Austa me back. I would say they're at about a six and a half right now. Yeah, about a six and a half. Circling back. Discovered there's a tube. This is the story of the forlorn hope again, bad omens, Mark their departure the day before they left Bela's Williams. The servant of the read family had quote, unquote, lost his mind and died after being ill for weeks, having completely given up any hope of survival. Okay. A Williams was the first of many to be buried, six feet deep in the snow because the ground was already too deep to even reach shoe, frozen to detour deep. Yeah, the Dino is twenty feet deep, she's and pretty soon the Donner party wouldn't have the energy to even do that with their dead. So the four, Lauren, hope new, their journey would be difficult, but they didn't really know how horrible it was going to be until they actually got out into the deep wilderness. The snow shoes worked, but the act of sinking down your foot and having a pull it back up again with every step was exhaust. Sting yet right now you're thinking, oh, that's not a big deal. Like, oh, I walk through snow, do all this kind of bullshit, but it's number one you're on a mountain. Yeah, known to it is fucking to the death. This walk us to the death. You are starving and you were bored. The only thing you have to concentrate on is the movement of your feet, which is gonna make you kind of go insane. No. So realize that grabbed him how fucking difficult? Absolutely. Yeah. This sounds almost impossible. Yeah. I mean to put it in perspective, just think about how big a pain in the acid is to just walk like two or three blocks in a heavy snow storm. Yeah, then multiply that by thousand then mountain. The fact that you haven't had a real meal in months use, and that was just the walking was also the snow blindness as Brown lays it out snow blindness occurs when Oltra violet be raised, reflect off the snow in damage the person's corn. And the higher the allegation is the worse. It is. It makes you nauseous. It gives you a splitting headache and eventually it blinds you. And if the exposure is long enough, the blindness can be permanent and the Donner party didn't have the slightest idea how to fight it could of done without that. Yes. Indeed, no happen was that they didn't have sunglasses, didn't make this look good. Why? Normally this is not a thing to think about. They didn't know what it was. Yeah, they're just walking all of a sudden they're going fucking blind. Then I'll tell you what, and if you think that's hard. Try running a podcast network. I can really difficult everyday. Yeah, man. They should have gotten one of those military grade sunglasses that you can run over with the truck. Got an eighteen forty six. They should just ran. I mean, just put it into their Amazon wish. Yes, definitely. All be watching the same infomercials the same level of drunk that you do four AM and then they would have been fine yet Bill. It's good reminder that we're not living in the worst times. No, we absolutely are not. We're all flush with tactical flashlights, but it's difficult as the snow shoes were. They were essential and the first part of the journey as the only two without him. Turn back in the first day, bring the party down to fifteen, but they hadn't made it three days before they would lose another member. But this time the loss would have grave consequences for both the forlorn hope and the people back at Truckee lake. Okay. See, even though Luis and Salvador had crossed the pass before they'd never taken the path that they were now walking on. And that was paired with the fact that the two barely spoke English. Why don't they go on the treaded path ever because they can't see the wagon trail? Yeah, because it's covered in snow. I soon normally the wag. Gins have ground path into the rock, but they can't see it now. And so they're just walking around in their hands and they're fucking half blind right. The forlorn hopes main guide was Charles Stanton, but Stanton's fatal flaw was that he was only five foot five. I'm the trigger. It is put in their little legs. The outline that did he has little legs, much more difficult time fell out of this. First of all, I was planning on reading it this way yet meant through beauty legs and good Tempur until. You couldn't buy AMD with eat. We don't know you go back to the book all Stanton was very handsome, strong. Very, the reason why he died. I was because he'd already been up and down the mountain pass three time. Oh, please. Short man. Good. See, that's why. He was also more susceptible to snow-blindness than many of the others. He's so close to the. What a God damn. And this was only the third day and that time they'd only made it fourteen miles and they had fifty more miles to go. Stanton started falling behind catching up to the group at night. Then on the fifth day as all the other stood to leave the camp Carroll. Stanton, sat down with this pipe and told him eat catchup later guys. You guys get down into the hill of Iraq behind you hate before. Before you go, Mary, sue. Mary. Yeah, yeah. Can you just tell me how seven ends the movie set a movie seven. The it's the, it's Brad. Pitt's. Wife's head is in the box wrath. Can't you up to you so strange, what the movie seven is. No just needed knows when play give me of and got around seeing the so many. There's so much content for like two hundred years. So yeah, Hello, my name is Henry browse ski for twenty three and me twenty three and me is a really cool DNA testing service that can offer insights into your ancestry health wellness and traits. My twenty three and me taught me a little bunch of stuff about my genetics that I never knew before. Do you know that I'm genetically disposed to be short, so I'm not a mistake and also I'm two percent Japanese. You're welcome. The twenty three and me health and ancestry service includes reports and how your can influence your weight sleep. Quality caffeine, intake sense of taste, whether you were likely to be lactose intolerant and more. It's easy to do. You simply spit into the tube provided in your twenty three and me kit and you mail your saliva sample back for the lab to be analyzed. And this is important. It's gotta be in the two. It can't just be a loosen an emblem twenty. Three and me has a bunch of interesting reports the sleep report, which doesn't sound interesting, but it is. The deep sleep report tells you that if you're more likely to be especially beeper and sleep movement report tells you how much you're likely to move during your sleep based on your DNA. Like I'm polish, so I'm very restless my sleep because I'm always waiting for someone to kill me in the night. There's also the saturated fat and weight report which tells you based on your genetics, how your weight might be affected by saturated fats in your diet. The report even offers tips on which foods to watch out for if you're trying to eat less saturated, fat. I don't know for a fact that Twenty-three and meet does not make clones with our spit, but if they do your sucker Henry clone building ships for the breakaway civilization for the rich, the original Henry is doing great on top of the world order your twenty three and me health and ancestry service kid at twenty three and me dot com slash left. That's the number. It's twenty three and me dot com. Slash Elliott t. Carol. Stanton never caught up. His body was found five months later and a hollow stump nearby because remember. He was small enough to fit new home. Oh. Everyone. He had a sense of humor. Okay. Running ever climb out of the stuff. Maybe he couldn't climb out. That was the problem. Okay. So remember these people they were not intense at all right. They were sleeping outside every night in temperatures that ran from the low twenties to the high teens with mound winds, making it even colder. And it was snowing almost constantly with only a few breaks and win the sun finally came out during the day, given them just a little bit of warmth it melted the snow, which made it even harder to walk through. So they're walking through a slushy. Yeah, base sometimes. I mean, it was either I can feel tiny bit of warmth on my skin and have to go through a health log or I can be freezing cold and able to walk on the hard crust of frozen snow, right right now since Stanton died, the party had no choice, but to follow Luis and Salvador. Oh, man. Poor Luis and Salvador. This movie was made in nineteen seventy eight. It would be played by teaching Chong. Love them and they were not. They were not happy. No. In this scenario, they were absolutely not happy to be stuck with these people. Now these guys, they did know the land a little better, but for the most part, they were just as lost as the rest had Charleston survive. Just a few more days he may have prevented the party from making a mistake that would cost most of them their lives. Again, again, see the party had got through the six mile valley and come upon a ridge if they would've climbed it, they would have found a road that went down to bear valley, which would have relatively easily lead them to the near settlement, Johnson's ranch. If they would have done that, the journey would have taken him nine days at most just a couple more than they estimated which would brought the rescue parties to the camp at Truckee lake a lot faster, which would have prevented all sorts of tragedy. It was right over the rich, all they had to do was PICO for the rich, and they would have seen where there was all my God and do we know of Charles Stanton. He was the one who smoked a pipe. Do we know if he was baking cookies in in the stump? Do we know if STAN became the first Keebler. This hour roasting. Off, but instead of climbing the ridge, the four, Lauren hope turn south, oh, your path and went downhill. They then descended into a three thousand foot deep canyon, having no idea where they were going or what they were doing. Hodel nightmare did we're moving towards the level of fucked. Two of I've left my keys outside. I left my keys inside and I just got out of the shower. I walked out the door thinking there was an intruder. Now I'm locked outside, and I'm Newt. How the beef they brought was almost gone in the real hunger was about to begin the food ran out on December twenty second and December twenty. Third and Irishman named Patrick. Dolan had a suggestion high. You've got to have an idea. Looking at your feet, and I've been wondering what it'd be like verba cume as too blunt for you. Got it ever. We. Patrick Dolan thought that the best idea was to draw lots to see who would die so that others may live. Now, this may strike us as premature because they'd only gone a few hours without food at this point. Could to plan. But you gotta remember these people were not only fighting for their lives, but the lives of their families. Plus it's not like these people were eating stakes three times a day right there. Food was nothing more than small pieces of lean salted beef with less nutritional value than a strip of old trapper. Level tripper. The best. So a piece of paper was torn into strips, and the men took turns drawing for their doom, oh, in the unlucky soul, who drew the long one was the man who had suggested they do it in the first place, Patrick Dolan. So Roenick. Green on your winning. Is the most Irish thing I've ever heard. Expand look. But when it came time to do the deed, the group discovered that none of them had it in them for cold blooded murder yet. Oh, but as William Etty who had by the way, we many key suggested a dual instead of drawing lots really any. Any a lot of very attentive. Nuts. Great hero of the story, but he's talking crazy what if we do a snowball fight and the person covered in the most amount of snow is the one who gets eaten, okay, you know what? I'm thinking tickle each other until the first one piece there. I know it's. Pissing her pants. We kill that guy. But William at a he was the one that pointed out. He's like, you know what? We don't have to kill anybody. One of us is gonna die sooner or later, right? And the odds would definitely for sooner first of all, they knew from Charles Stanton's description of the terrain ahead. They knew they'd made a wrong turn somewhere, but they had no idea when they don't it or where they done it. You probably want the five foot five guy being the scout. Hey, we jump onto a tree tire used to. We're used to things being harder to. We are braver. In addition to that, none of them had enough energy to even leave the campaign made the day before the first to go was a young Mexican herdsmen named Antonio last name on known. No one noticed he'd even died and tell us hand fell in the fire, and he made no attempt whatsoever to pull it back out again. Wow, yeah. And after Tonio died, the tragedy just kept coming in the midst of a storm. One of the men was chopping wood, but when he brought the handle bat for chop the head full Lou off and was lost forever in the snow. Now they had no way to chop wood. What don't want. So looking for any source of heat, the settlers. I think this was actually like Franklin graves suggestion because Franklin graves the grownup in Vermont. So he actually knew a little bit about survived in the snow, the settlers formed attent using themselves as post and they used what few blankets they brought as a roof, and they use the only source of heat they had each other. The next person Di was the last one you'd expect to go Franklin graves SU. He was among the heartiest men in the entire Donner party much less the forlorn hope, but he to succumb to the cold as he lay dying. He told his daughters who are two of the five women in the group that they should eat him, lest they die. The same death is him. Another important thing know about these people's mindset is that they thought all these guys were dying from hunger. They were actually most likely dying of hypothermia. But these people had no fucking clue what hypothermia was right. They felt like they were dying hunger where it was going. They filled like they were dying of hunger, and so they didn't really understand why people die anyway. But hypothermia is a bitch. Yeah, for sure. And that's why these people couldn't understand behavior, Patrick Dolan exhibited before he died. See a lot of people who reach the later stages of hypothermia exhibited behavior called paradoxical undressing see hypothermia begins the blood vessels constrict. So more heat is fun to the body's core, but when the person reaches the final stage, the opposite happens, the vessels open backup and the victim is suddenly overheated, and so they do what any of us would do were to warm and they take off their clothes naked out there, man. Yeah, interest in. Interestingly, what I find really interesting in modern times, this is why so many urban cases of fatal hypothermia are actually. Mistaken for sexual assaults and paradoxical undressing is exactly what Patrick Dolan did on Christmas day. Eighteen forty six. I don't wanna sit naked Irishman on any. Kitchen Hughes's like dancing, Jing out nece in. They're all like, once this guy's right, and I'm sure he was not the first naked man on Christmas day. Sure of that. So after stripping don't try crawling out of the mix shift tent into the snowstorm. They'd been raging all day, tried holding them back, but he made it out and this is another son of hypothermia. It's a syndrome called hide and die or terminal burrowing. It's thought to be a primordial instinct to run for protection and roughly half of all hypothermia victims do it. So the group manage to get Dolan back in the blanket circle. But by that afternoon, he was dead in the hunger was getting worse, though livers begun to break down and their bodies started producing acetone, making their breath, smell like nail polish, then more of them started losing it a thirteen year old boy named lem. You'll Murphy manage to capture a mouse while he was trying to find dry wood, and he just popped it in his mouth and ate it alive. And he found it's because of this point, they're all kind of like trying to keep their cool. Intents, you got untold Neo chilling like a bud lime in the snow next to they're just trying to like, we're going to get through all of the right. He goes, eats food, the promise this, but thirty six hours into starvation. The hunger pains begin to leave because the your body starts to readjust like it makes it. So basically hunger pains come from the glucose levels in your brain reach a certain point where they're like, okay, you gotta eat, you got to, we're gonna make it really difficult for you to not eat your whatever the fuck comes across. But then after a while your body readjust and makes the hunger pains go. So at this point they're actually feeling not good, but they're feeling better than they were because the body stern eat their muscles in their fat, which is kind of why we can live for like three weeks with no food. Eat, it kicks the system back in. So you'll Murphy. He hates the smoke in this mouse, and then it makes him go fucking Kuku, Bennane interest. Will you hear those stories with holocaust survivors and when they were being they were fed a bunch of food and then they would die from eating that happened to one of the Donners over. Really? Yeah. Okay. Not good. So after can I just say it's not good. The. Right. You're right. So after the lem, you'll Murphy eight the mouse. He started attacking everyone else biting on their arms and just yelling one thing over and over and over again. If me my. Give me my boat. Give me my. Yeah. What did he turn into a shaggy dog. He died at two AM and his body was rolled out of the circle into the snow. There were now three bodies laying in the forlorn hopes camp. That's when the cannibalism started. Cannibalism star. And that when the cannibalism started. I did what you wanted me. I know it is. I did the thing. Yeah, I remember these. Awesome. So the morning after Murphy's death, it was decided that was no other choice. So that began butchering the three bodies that lay frozen in their camp. Okay. So they did have to choose, so they had to organize who's gonna get who? Okay, because no one wanted to eat a member of their own family. She's I, they removed the heads hands and feet of the cadavers, which is common among cannibals as it helps to dehumanize the meat. They seem pretty good at it. Like right off the bat. Well, it's almost like a again, like a primordial type of urge because you're looking at it and you're thinking like, I can't eat a person. So I've got to make this look less like a person. It's why I don't like going to pigro where the pig is actually on a spit because it's horrified makes you feel weird. No, not me, man. It's the opposite. I seeing the face. What a real. That's a non hypocrites way of. I actually will agree. I am hypocrite. I'm gonna come to that. Then open the torso and brought out the liver heart, and kidneys knows that's an of course like that's the most likely thing to do because that's the most nutritious meat by this point because their muscles are all gone, right? Three of the survivors were either the sibling or spouse of each of the deceased. So the party divided into three groups. So no one would accidents eat the flesh of their kin. They found some dry firewood and the meat was roasted on sharpened stakes. What they said too, is that again, there hunger painted sort of left for a while. This was like, there were doing this wrote butchering in it felt like butchering an animal. So it was a little bit more go, okay, we can do. This was fine, but it was slow going. But they said when the smell of the cooking meat hit their noses, the became ravenous with hunger, just smells like fucking. Beef sweet, delicious, pork, beautiful pork me. Yeah, interest in the only ones who didn't partake in the meat were Luis and Salvador because they looked at this whole thing like this is an abomination of the highest order, right, right. So the forlorn hope sat in the snow and ate all of them avoiding icon, ttacked and weeping what they had to do to survive. Now, it is true that they would probably survived a couple more weeks without the human flesh before they starve to death. But before we judge, it is almost assured they would not have had the energy to continue. They just would have sat around that fire trying to find dry firewood until they just starved to death while this is a small exaggeration, but not that much of an exaggeration when I was three hundred and eighty pounds. I did sit in the Ponderosa booth after my fifth plate and did begin to cry. Yeah, it's one of those moments I realized I couldn't time shoes. That's another moment I had to leave the apposite. This is the complete opposite of the Dahmer part. Obesity eating? Well, fat actually won't be says actually sad or than I don't know if that's true. I some sets. Hello, you goals. Today's episode of last podcast on the left is brought to you by Dollar Shave Club, no matter what you do in the bathroom to get ready Dollar Shave Club has everything you need to look feel and smell your best unless you like covering herself in the dark blood of the awful of land beast. They have mazing shower stuff, hairstyling products, toothbrushes, toothpaste. And of course, razors shave supplies for anything you need them for. I can't go home to Natalie until I clean up from sweating shirtless and Pantelis in the studio all day DS's calming, amber and lavender buddy wash keeps anyone from ever knowing. I've been screaming about aliens for a solid four hours. That's just for my smell. You can tell. I've been doing it by my face, but that's how I get ready. But you're not me. You have your own way to get ready. You might want to shave that beard. You got after being stranded in the mountains for months, dollar shave clubs, executive razors shave butter could help. You might want to protect your skin from the dry. Cold air that you've been experiencing staring at your neighbors at night. Wondering what they do after the lights go out. I recommend they're good, shake, hand cream and wind master lip balm. The thing is no matter what you do to get ready. DSE has everything you need. And right now you can get ready with an amazing deal on any one of their starter sense. I recommend the daily essential starter set because I love the amber buddy gold if the door full. But you can't go wrong with any of them head over to dollarshaveclub dot com. Slash last to pick your own Dollar Shave Club starter set for just five dollars after starter set product ship at regular price and make sure you check out their new video too. That's dollarshaveclub dot com. Slash last dollarshaveclub dot com. Slash l. AST after the butchering they got a little bit of luck. The snow stopped and the temperature dropped, meaning the snow is easier to walk on. So they cut long strips of flesh from the deceased and dried over a fire for the further journey in the end only four days worth. Of meat could be harvested from the starved bodies and still they were weeks left to go, jeez, that it's kind of what they have brought up the book. That was interesting the way he said it. We Brown said it. It was almost a little suspicious. It was like if you really look at the stats of Franklin grabs, you'd expect a yield of sixty six pounds. No, I I remember that passage and I remember thinking like I really respect this guy for doing the math. Really, he called somebody up. He asked him what? What? How much meat it would yield I respect. Yeah. So maybe they weren't very good at getting the meat off the bone? No. Okay. Think of it this way like compare it to the Uruguay in rugby team that crashed in the Andes in the seventies alive and all those guys were all athletes. They were rugby team, right? So there was quite a bit a very good meat left on those guys, so they were able to get some toys cuts not to be too indelicate, but they were able to get some pretty choice cuts of meat from these guys, the Donner party by the time they had by the time they had started to butcher, Franklin graves and such. And the other two, there was very little meat left on their bones. So you think that organized sports would have really helped. Yeah, actually, yeah. A little bit more muscle and it's also the proper, the proper diets. They've been walking for two thousand miles. They had Gump bodies. Muscles walking for a long time and they've not been eating a lot of fat. So without fat in the meat, you can't properly process the nutrients to meet very, very dry. After the meat ran out. The only thing they had left to eat where they're shooting, so they roasted their shoes and then moved on totally barefoot. And what's more a lot of barely had any clothes on their back at all. Because the closed started a rot from all the wetness, and they were walking through these tree branches constantly and the branches because the clothes were rotted. They just ripped more and more and more top. I mean, they were half-naked walking through the Sierra Nevada's in the teens. That's crazy. A few days after eating their shoes. The hunger once again became too much. That's when the first mention of outright murder came William foster was the one who suggested that the group kill and eat Luis and Salvador. Let's kill those. Just had that inner like plotting of people pulling each other decide being like seem over there. Right? Magic a minute. Taco. Being movie. But imagine monacell it. These are the only these are the guides right that we're helping them out the whole time. Well, they, yeah, they were. But I mean, this is another thing about survival scenarios is that you always go first for the ones. You know, the least strangers? Yeah, loosen Salvador, total strangers. So it's like, yeah, fucking let's teeth those guys. We don't know any that we don't know those guys, so let's kill them and eat them so we can live so our families can live. Now we don't know if the two guides overheard everyone talked about this or if one of the due to his against again, willy William Eddie, he may have told them about it. But by the next night, loosened Salvador gotten a fuck out of there. Just left at anytime. I am wondering why they're were still there at all. I mean, some sort of like, you know, human feeling for these people. Yeah, he still how fucked they were. And so they are helping them and they knew how to live off the land they, they've been in these mountains before they kind of understood a little bit of what was happening. I'm certain that it was still fuck for them. Understand you can live a little bit longer without eating and he watched. They watched them all eat their families like a weekend like, oh shit, these guys are serious. I really think that the writing was on the wall when people go off in like you see people like mining, like putting a stick and an roasting over a flame people looking to recipe books. Whenever it is, and I'm certainly read the room. Yeah, let's get the fuck. Absolutely time to skip town and they survived. Yeah. No, no, no, no. Pope in my voice. That's all gone. That's all gone gay. Don't have any hope at all. Get rid of the group is called up for Lauren hope. Diner. Yeah, maybe not a great name for a group. Then there was some luck. The group had traveled below the snow line. So there was no, at least the possibility of deer. So they all split off in a groups, William Eddy Marianne graves, they finally found a dear to see William any with Antlers on his head be like, they'll think Ahmadou down. Down onus in Mary of grade, you put the Hitler's on there. I'm gonna go out there. I'm spread up my asshole. I'm like, I'm super super horny for deer. I go wit with give me give me. Eddie barely able to hold the gun, much less fire. It brought up his Flint lock in by some miracle was able to hit the deer. He and Marianne followed the trail of blood until the deer collapsed. And when they came upon the dying animal, Eddie slid throat and they both fell to their knees too greedily drink the blood that gushed from the wounds. This is good. It's like a Rosa, but deer blood. Full Richard chase in this situation, but the I will eventually pay probably several thousands of dollars in my in my lifetime. Later on to do this. Abuse in surviving the game. You know, do we can do this? We can just go back to the ranch and we can do. I've seen this done many, not drinking the blood Henry wants to do. We can do that for you. We're not doing what are you talking about? We can do it experienced things differently than you to various things deeper. Yeah, significantly than you to hang up. I wanna feel the rush of life from that animal into my body. It's not a work. Yeah, sure. We just we kill a deer. We hang upside down, slit the throat like we normally do, but instead of having flow into the blood bucket, you just have a phone on you like a. Give me the phone. The thing was that was just Marianne graves and William Eddie still all the rest of them still out there in the wilderness all looking for their own dear. That night as j foster and his wife. Sarah search for deer j the man who played fiddle for everyone back in Nebraska slipped out of consciousness and died will Sarah graves had now lost both her father Franklin and her new husband to the forlorn hope journey when she ran into the fosters on the way back and told them what happened. They didn't wait a second before, asking thick at eat them, they Joeli right in so we can. We can have them, then she, she's just like, yeah. Yeah, maybe me like a second. I just wanna look at his dick. I wanna see was big enough for me to eat it in a bun. Yeah, they were all about it. They were Oster. Oh, the fosters were all about it. Okay. Like she just looked at him like, yeah, you can't hurt him. Now, go ahead. So the fosters butchered, the body on the spot for convenience of combines and brought the torso legs and arms back to the camp on their backs. And even though William Marianne had brought venison back to the camp fosters still impaled, Jay faucets heart on a stake. Roasted it and ate it up now I don't wanna be crass your, but did they tie arms like a little backpack all know. They butchered at meaning. They cut off the arms. They cut off the legs and put him into like little pallets, put him on their back, so so he could carry the torso and she could carry the limbs. Then they said it was the same. It's the smell that did it said they said the overcoming smell. All of the meat cooking righted there like, all right. So they'd already eaten what was left of that deer. And then Sarah graves had sit separate while they didn't just then double down eight her fuck and husband, right in front of her where maybe she turned away or whatever. But it was just like it's because they stuck a hard on a stick like it's marshmallow insert cooking, eaten it all them's going like a lot love ended up, right? I mean, I know there's really no respectful way to what. No, there is a respectful way. Human body. I guess it seems a little bit. I mean rude. The way that they did. They weren't all sitting around laughing thing and campfire stories. They were staying feeling they were doing. Don't know. Like, okay, we still very, very grim icy. Okay. The party was now down to seven, five women and two men they kept going. And finally, they reached the bottom of the canyon, but that had come at a price since they'd all eat in their shoes. Everyone's feet were cut up by sharp rocks and were swollen from the snow. They were only twenty miles from their destination, but the worst was still to come. Now we're moving into the spiders have gotten down the tube. They are their insight if they discovered that they can lay eggs and all right. Again, foster suggested murder. He had his eye on Amanda mccutchen. But again, Eddie objected saying she's a fucking mother. So foster said, fine. Let's kill the grape sister kill foster. Let's kill the grave sisters. They don't got any kids and actually now shit Sarid you have a husband anymore. So what does it matter? Let's just kill them. At what point did foster say like, you know what? I'm actually really enjoying them. Seems way too into this. He is. I feel like it's a strange thing that comes over the group where the human meat is easier and so the human because it's right there and they say there's something that changes with anthropology pop anthropology or are throw poverty whenever panther apology, where there's a one the lines crossed, right? It's the you start dreaming about eating human as people like when you're that level of hung, you're dreaming about it. And also there's a thing that happens your brain when it trembles from your my friend Kissel we hang out and we drink beer and will smoke weed, and we have fun. We right on point together right to Kissel. You're at least a hundred and fifty pounds of meat that I can consume where I'm looking at you and I'm actively made hungry by your body. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, this is this is really getting scared from here. A little guy like you could handle. UB Brian Marcus would be too stringy. Henry, you're actually I'm probably Henry and I are probably the best taste too stringy markets. Oh, you think so who's got the biggest tightest button this room? Oh, I vote Marcus. Messed up as far as how foster was thinking. There was another thing that Brown talked about an indifferent stars was how humans turn feral. And this happens a lot in, you know, places where food is very scarce like in like the siege of Leningrad people started eating children. I, they started eating anything. It's like it's one of those things where you know you watch a post apocalyptic movie and you wonder, it's like, wow, I how all those people Farrell like, how do they actually get to that point, there's actual science behind that. People act like that. Once you take everything away from group of humans, society and any sort of societal norms completely break down and we turn into the most dangerous animals on the planet. All right. But after foster suggested that they eat the grave sisters fucking Eddie stepped in again. Okay. Drew a knife and said that he would kill foster if he didn't fuck and drop it nice. That's one verse. The story, the other versions, even worse. The other version says that foster even went so far as to lure Marianne away from the camp. So he could kill her before foster stop them. Here. Debra. Said. It's me. Everybody loves me. Ramana. Oh, come over here, married. Not gonna eat you with my. Do out here considering how weak everyone was. It was probably more likely that foster just suggested it and Eddie like weekly pulled out a knife is a moth can stab, you say anything else? Okay, right. So everyone is very weak. Everyone's very, yeah, but eventually foster would get his murder. Although the victims would not be in their immediate group couple of days after the murder threat, the party by chance ran into Luis and Salvador. They were doing the if it was teaching Chong behaving at they have since found a pine cone that they're smoking. Having a great time with bigoted like women that they think are big tinted women, but it's just clods of dirt. Stories various to how it all went down. Some say the party came upon Luis and Salvador lane by a stream too weak to move near death. That said that since they were near death foster took out his Flint lock and shot both of them in the head. All right. The others say that Luis and Salvador who were me walks by the way. I mean, these guys, they knew the land and even if they didn't hope land, they sure as hell knew how to survive on it. So it's possible. They're doing just fine and we're killed as healthy men either way, foster murdered them. And that night they all dined on their organs. Oh goodness. Ironically, though it was actually a native American tribe who saved the forlorn. Hope. Of course, of course it was. Alfred Packer yet they folk and killed Louis solved, or they immediately butchered them up and they were. They were cooking them and eating immediately, and then they wandered into the camp of the minute, tribe with the fucking their bodies of the me walks. Who were there like allies, backpacks while they're being taken care of. Two days after they killed Nate Luis and Salvador, they just wandered into the camp. It seems like they never did they ever have to eat people? Yes. Okay. They did. Because this point it seems like they're always like two days away from. They did. They needed some sustenance if they were going to survive. Because remember there in the extreme cold are calories are getting burned very quickly. And also, I mean these people, the amount of physical energy that they're exerting, like it's not hiking. They're climbing mountains, right? Like they're climbing up straight, cliff faces. They're going down there walking through craggy rocks like this is not a third. It's not point eight a. point. B. it's point. Eight point cedar, point light, it's there is no straight line here. These people are doing horrific work. You know what I'm going to say. They could use a chocolate mint, cliff bar really, really tasty. I don't live in adventurous lifestyle when they got to the camp. They were in such bad shape that the children freaked out and cried when they saw them. That's not good showed up because the way they would describe their way they spent their nights were just like they would sleep and you just you're. Like like screaming from hunger until when they showed up. They were fucking desert beasts. Yeah, like Bob from dawn of the dead. Zombies did a hunger for human flesh. Yeah, they were like, I mean, and you got there all gaunt. They look like walking bloody skeleton. Wow. And so the tribe brought them in fed him, paste of acorns, and they all slept him warmth for the first time in months with the flesh to me walks still stored in their packs. Probably didn't tell the tribe that they had just eaten to me walks. I would hope province. Hi. Me a probably would have been a bad idea to tell him. So you wanna keep the human chest in your backpack close to your chance. That's a secret, but it wasn't over yet the next day they set off towards Johnson's ranch, Johnson ranch. I mean, that's where they were going in. The first place. Johnson's ranch was the first settlement once you got out of the Sierra Nevada's. And as soon as they set out just fucking torrential downpour could've done without that. They were shoeless in bleeding and in some cases pretty much naked, they stopped every hundred yards of soda arrest, but after two miles six of them just couldn't go on. I mean these people, it had been a six week long seventy mile journey through the mountains in the middle of winter, their bodies just gave out they have to be. I mean, they must phrase right with all the water. The only one to make it to the cabin at Johnson's ranch was William Etty. Yeah, he's got it again. They really did. You mentioned unit seven, thirty seven. What is it? Seven thirty one. You seven thirty one. And there was that scene where they froze the woman's arm and smashed with a hammer and felt very similar to that woman. I'm sure they were not comfortable. So William Eddie after being laid down in a bed, he told him that six others were near death down the road. Eddie's greatest source of pain was the other salvation because the ranchers followed William Eddie's bloody footprints back to the rest of them. Wow. Yet to he's like, was just leaking up. Ooh, out of the seventeenth originally set out from the Donner camp a month and a half before seven made it, they're alive, but now that people knew dozens were trapped without food over the mountains. The rescue operations began, you'll right, but guess what? Man, this was six days. This whole thing was supposed to take six days the gone for a month and a half who's those mother fuckers were just sitting there and had no clue what was happening. And they also had no clue what they were going to see when they arrived at this fucking camp. Right. Because back at Truckee like the horror was just beginning. Today's other sponsor for last podcast on the left is the Honey chrome browser. If you're anything like me when you shop online, your turn into a tab order. I always seem to pull up a million tabs or for promo code try to get the best deal. But more often than not all I get is the spinning wheel of death. Before you crash your browser. Again, try Honey. Honey is the free browser. Add on over nine million people including me are using every day to save money. When they shop online and two clicks. You can add Honey to any pressure for free. Then just shop like normally do Honey scans and tests millions of coupons in the background and checkout automatically apply the best coupon me over nine million people use Honey every day, save millions of dollars on everything from everyday home products to hotels and airfare. Honey recently saved me a ton of time and money by getting the studio, a great promo code on some new headphones. Now, there's no reason not to add Honey to your browser. Today. It's free takes just two clicks in Saul and it'll save you money, get Honey for free at joint Honey dot com. Slash l. AST that's two words join Honey dot com slash l. a. s. t. to start saving with Honey today, that's join Honey dot com. Slash l. s. t.. In the time took for the four, Lauren hope to reach Johnson's ranch. People had begun dying back at the original camp. The single men who only had mice strips of buffalo hide for sustenance, all dead, except for one and Jacob. Donner. George Donner's brother had also died because he'd pretty much just given up from the moment. It all started. I see. That was really sad was that he just went, he just laid down like when he was that the there's a is interesting about the story too, is that you see what this kind of situation brings out people Franklin graves, that made him a fucking hero, and it made him go do what you do, what he could get to save his family and change for everyone. But Jacob Donner not saying that it was bad like I'm aiming him for anything, but he was already so sick. Then when he got there, you just died. And they talk about this all the time. There's a decision you make at some point and a lot of times. In the book. They brings up a good the people can die on the inside. I, that's it. Kind of like Johnny Depp in the not well known film, but wonderful film dead man, a chance to be very, yeah. A Margaret Reid who had lost everything when her husband was banished from camp. This is James Reid's wife. She fed her children boiled ox hides, and eventually she could only feed him the discarded bones from oxen the others had eaten, essentially it will do it again. I'll do. You can boil bones down to the point, can just bite them. Yeah, sure. Then you get the marrow, I guess by February, fourteen of them were dead, but at the same time, the first of four rescue missions had set off from Johnson's ranch calling themselves. The first relief. That's. It sounds like Kenny Rogers band. I poop of the day. Yeah, I do. Guys give themselves a name. I love. I love it. Yeah. I wonder if that starts, I did just what we're putting together the you want to join the fest relief. Boy. Can we how boys? Yeah, I wanted to be a mountain boys laws out in the mountain. Oh, yeah. And the first relieve, oh, they were rag tag group, do-gooders and mercenary. I love it. And of course, it's far made followed. Willie Nelson performed. There was Jackson Curtis Septimus mood tree and German known only as greasy, Jim, I never wash my hair. There's no reason to why let anybody holds me through easy to phone these days. I prefer to be single grief. I've thought of never. They were all paid the kingly, some of three dollars a day, and they arrive two weeks after setting out. So even they doubled the trip time, they knew take two weeks. Well, they were reasonable and they did run across some like they ran across some troubles, but compared to everything else like they, these were all guys who knew what they were doing right? They abso they knew how long it was gonna take them to get there. They knew what they were doing. They got their two weeks later when they arrived on February eighteenth, they discovered the camp was under almost twenty feet of snow. It was so deep that when a person had died in a cabin, the survivors had to dig inclines in the snow from the door to drag them out because of that corpses just scattered the camp. This to me is the most thing like like like a horror movie. Apart of where the starts is that they come over the ridge. And they're expecting see fires going. They're expecting see people kind of like whatever because they don't really know, and they walk in and it's just dead bodies everywhere you could see almost nothing because they were essentially completely covered in snow. Yeah, and the guy he came and they, he was like, this can't be where the campus because they win exactly that. That's where they told him it would be, and he just likes grit. Legos like Hello in like one frail will woman like crawled up from the snow and like an issue. And I think what she said was Uman from California from heaven. Yeah, yeah. Rick. Western California is tell me about it. I love it seventy degrees and sunny. Twenty two people were brought out by the first relief. Most of those children, but scores were still left behind Margaret Reid and four. Her children were included on that first trip, which was actually like relatively, not that bad. Only two people died on that, yeah, okay. But one of those was three year old ADA Kesse. Berg. It took the first relief -oday to convince aid is mother to leave the little girl behind the men who finally convinced her later wrote that the child spirited went to heaven, a body to the woes. As the first relief crossed the pass. They met the second relief on their way to the lake. All right. That group was led by none other than James read back from fighting in the Mexican American war. Didn't believe me than I would be a part of this. Entire expedition said, I'm gonna come back from Mexico. Going back to the mountain UK David believe it's incredible what I can do. James Reid, he had never forgotten his family, but after he lost a battle key left the war and traveled to San Francisco. And he actually, he managed to raise a thousand dollars for the rescue attempt, and he also gained the support of the navy, a few men from them. James re went to San Francisco. Listen, there's a whole, there's eighty people trapped on the other side of the mountains. Could you please help James read? I mean, he's coming through. So when Margaret Reid saw her husband, she fell to her knees. He ran to her, they embraced, he found out four of his children are alive still a few more back. They're still there were still two more back at the camp. And so he reunited with his wife which he hadn't seen in four months only a couple minutes before he said, I gotta keep going. I gotta save the other kids. Goodness, once read arrived, he'd found the cannibalism had already begun. He did it again. Is that when the cannibalism start heads? No, the cannibalism. Okay. That's when the cannibalism started. This at the Donner at the Donner camp. I love it. So James read, he went into the Murphy cabin an in there. He found gnawed human bones strewn upon the floor next clumps of inedible human hair laying in the beds with a weakened children in the care of a woman named Lavina Murphy. It had been the children who had eaten the dead. Really. One man wrote that the survivors looked more like demons than human beings shoe. My goodness. That is honest. That's a lot right because like kids kind of scare me anyway. Just in terms of this potential, what's going to happen with them? You know, again, go on a Disney cruise and tell me that you don't areas spirit of children, but the idea of children that have gotten a taste for flesh, them all just been like. Immediately look at you like you're a pile of sausages with add on. Terrified downers had resorted to cannibalism as well. Their children had eaten the corpse of Jacob Donner and George reportedly wept as he watched his children, eat the flesh of his only sibling. Wow. The second relief brought out seventeen from that whole scene, three adults and fourteen children. There's was possibly the most harrowing journey of all, although there was no way they could known their fate rested and where they decided to pitch camp on just one night as Brown wrote in the different stars above the place for the second relief pitched camp was just about the perfect spot for experiencing the worst blizzards the Sierra Nevada had to offer. Interestingly, less than one hundred years later, while Disney chose this spot for a Sugar Bowl, ski resort most snowfall of any resort in California. Disney, great corporation, wonderful man, and just down the road, this bad, the weather is there. Now there's a meteorological lab place there specifically to measure extreme weather conditions, and this is where they decided to stay for the night. They had no idea, of course, that's, that's the thing about the Donner party like again. And again, like it's just they just add no idea. They just had no clue because no one had ever been in the mountains at that time of year when he works out native Americans new to not beat it. 'cause it sucked being there would have been there? Yeah, it was like the shining, yes. Good. Very good, very good. They eighteen other up on the storm. Came. The storm came on March. Fifth, it was so cold that one of the men leaned too close to the fire and didn't notice until the flames had burned through four shirts down to his skin. There was so much snow that the firepit actually just it just kept sinking down inventively it made it down ten feet and formed like this big pit that all seventeen of these people used as a borough. Of course, they soon ran out of food right? And Elizabeth graves, another graves was the first to die, leaving behind a young child. And now that I think about it, it really was the graves family that got the raw deal really did. They were good. People were hardy. People they worked on, they were strong. They were moral, like kind of tent poles of the entire party, and they just got. Fucked up. Yeah. And really like at most points, it was either them trying to help other people or it was just bad luck. Okay. And this is their on. This is the second, really? This is the second relief. The first relief already made it back, so they're only only two people died on the first relief. So there's already like a contingent of Donner party that has made it to Johnson's ranch. They're safe in California. This is the second relief member. This is three people like three adults, fourteen children. She's so after Elizabeth graves died, it was decided that reach should go ahead. Johnson's ranch and send back for help. One adult was left behind it. What came to be known as starved camp to watch over fourteen children. Then after the first night it was thirteen and it was Mary Donner seven years old who I brought up cannibalism seven years old. Well. The thing there were two bodies up above Mary Donner. She already eaten her uncle and she told the others. It's not that bad. How scary is that? You look at a little girl? Yes. We girl to leak and just eat the other little. To do all you gotta do is on, I'll, oh an uncle. Jacob goes in your belly and secure a God help killed a little girl. Well, I mean, she also kinda learned it from the camp because another woman, I think it was Jacob's wife. One night. They were cooking like the Mary Astor. It's like, what are we? You know, what are we eating? And she said that the woman, like with a smile on her face, like, what do you think we ate last night shoemakers arm? Oh my God. I guess they had to make it fun for the kids. I would rather have Damian from as a child. These kids are crazy. Yeah. Now, by the time, the rescuers returned the children had stripped Elizabeth graves bones of the majority of flesh, eating the heart, the liver, and the breasts they eaten the kid who died as well that was Isaac Donner, Nancy, graves and other graves, although she didn't know what at the time she'd eaten her own mother. Geez. Now in another rescue party found pretty much was a cannibal whole. Many of them were leaning towards just leaving them there to die yet it 'cause it's just like let the snow just take them like this is a whole nightmare. This whole thing that maybe should just be swept away by time, the weather and then the same time. Like you got, it's still families and they become writhing demons, but. You gotta go to California to be actors. Of course. Course naturally, yeah, but three men step forward saying they wouldn't have any of it oak and they carried the children all the way back to Johnson's ranch. One dude, John stark rescued nine children all on his own. He would carry a kid a few steps and they go back for the next one and then carry her a few steps and then go back for the next one. And the next one for miles upon miles. This guy is a disguise deserves the statue. For some reason. I just feel like every time he grabbed a child, it's like when you try to petro wow with, it's not yours. Try to help in John Starks family went on to carry the Knicks and the same exact way. Well. John Starks. Meanwhile things were getting even more grim at Truckee lake Lewis Kesse Burke who, until this point was no more than like just a background character with an injured foot was slowly becoming one of the stories. Main villains. I feel like it's got something to do with the foot because early on. So when they arrived at Truckee lake Lewis Berg was a guy that he couldn't do very much because he stepped on a sharp branch which is off. All the suffering going on those guys. I did step on a short branch. I, this is my right foot, which is my favorite. Here's a part of that fed into this insanity because he was really useless early on. So I think he sat and watched and became more and more to mended weeks went, maybe fiction infections can make a little nutty to maybe a one night Louis Kesse Berg took one year old George foster and do his bed. Oh, by the morning, little foster was dead. We don't know if the kid died a natural causes or if Louis Kesse Virk just smothered him and either way Kesse Burg took the body from his bed and hung it on a peg on the wall. Like it was little more than a suckling pig soon after George Foster's father arrived with the third relief. And when he discovered that Kesse Burke had eaten his infant son, he almost killed him, but decided instead. That he'd had enough of murder. Thank you. Have had your fill of. Yeah, he told him five or c if I see in California, I'll kill you, but I ain't going to do it here while consequently, George foster left Kesse Berg there to be rescued by the fourth and last party led by quote, unquote, flamboyant mountain man named William gross follow. I love him. They call me gross that only because of the way I dress go boys up over the mountain tippety tap. This guy, the fourth relief left on April thirteenth, eleven months after the Donners and the reads had left Independence Missouri grant. The third relief had taken the majority back and only four remained Lavina Murphy who had saw who had watched over the cannibal cabin Kesse Burg the goal and the last two Donner's Tamsin and George. All right. Because George, he'd never recovered from that cut, but he had survived the entire time and Tamsin she'd completely refused to leave him at every turn. Now, the fourth relief knew that probably wasn't much of a chance of bringing back all four Tamsin and casper. They were healthy enough when the third relief left, but the other two were almost certainly dead. What the fourth relief was actually after was loot. Oh yeah, because that was a lie shit. Like these people had brought a lot of stuff that they brought gold brought silver. They brought fabrics like about this, but the graves family had their entire family fortune buried into like built inside of their wagon. Name had like thousands of dollars of silver, like interested their their stuff, and they knew will go. And essentially the deal was is that you get to keep some of the shit and you could bring back whoever's left the four of the ghoulish members that are left though the most evil and demented sick and broken. You just have to bring those back. And the gross was just like, not the creepiest thing brought back to my apartment. Go get a once. The fourth relief got to the camp, what they found was most likely a murder scene, although it must be said that there's some debate as to the veracity of the flamboyant mountain men's account. Okay. He said when they arrived, there was no one to be seen, but the camp itself was strewn with mutilated arms legs skulls and limbless torsos one of the guys who had been there. I think his name was reason reason, Tucker. He said that he'd been there on the second relief and they're definitely been bodies there when he left, but then that at least been whole kind of like a battlefield seen. This was closer to a slaughterhouse. That was at the lake when they went to Alder creek where the Donner camp was got even worse. They said when they got to George Donner's tent. They didn't find George Donner. They just found his head my God. Split open and the insides have been scooped out and the brains were in a nearby kettle. Simmering and Kesse Burg was the culprit. It's me again. I do it again. They called me champ. Can you do. Oh, and win. The fourth relief finally found Kesse Burke. He was not shy in any way about saying that he was the last survivor and that he'd eight all the rest of them. But he also made sure to say that Thames Donner's flesh was the best he'd have tasted. Oh, that's that's good. Good. Good. Oh, tell me you better yelp at. But Lor he denied murder and Kesse. Berg said that Tamsin had died pretty soon after George supposedly after Georgia's death. Tamsin tried to leave because she said, I nothing here. Leifer me. Like I'm gonna go find my kids. I have to go see my kids. I don't care. I'm gonna go. But what casper said was that she didn't get very far before she fell new creek. She got wet. She caught a chill and died that very night in casper claim that her last wish is that he should take the last of the Donner silver to their children in California. Of course it was absolutely. All of this is true. The indifferent stars above. If if Jeffrey Dahmer would have just read this book. Defendant, judge I was hungry. You understand? I was. Scam where I was at, I was doing intermittent fasting. You've been on the ten hours a day. Now the fourth really of course they didn't believe God damn word of it, right? Kesse Burke. He did have some money in his pockets, but the group knew that wasn't all of it because they had an accounting what was there. So they tied a noose around Kesse birds neck and choked him Tila gave up the goods. He showed him where he'd buried the rest of the silver and after the men were paid, they were on their way with Kesse Berg, following behind Lewis, Cass Berg, who ate more human flesh than anyone else during the winter of eighteen forty six eighteen forty seven was the last survivor of the Donner party camp. He died a free man decades later known till his dying day as Kesse Burg the cannibal. It is definitely a sketch, this sketch where it's like the guy that goes up because it's closer to 'cause we rewatch a cannibal, the musical this stick great. It's really funny. It really holds up, but it's the same bit where it's like the guy goes up with six people come and he's all fat coming back. Would happen. The accident. I'm not real sure like Gaspart just kind of Keith got to see the abyss visits a part of me like I'm not jealous in any way, shape or form. There's anything where you look at it and like straight with that caveat in their lead me to believe you are slightly jealous because I wasn't thinking you would be within you did say, you're not so something about being able to just give little gander and to the abyss of pure insanity and see what it's like to kind of get into a kind of rub your hands all over it and really get it up zero fucking eyebrows, getting your hair. It's not. Comecon seeing it must be interesting. Yeah, should be able to go all the way to those depths and then just like being California and now you're just a guy going to the store now you're just living life you doing your day today, but you fucking a child cigarettes ago. What do you mean? My relatives car doesn't. So did they interview? 'cause I would love to hear what this guy had. He denied it all he. He said, no, I didn't do stress preposterous to that. I would ever do a nipple or something. Out of the original party of the donors in the reads, all five of George Donner's tildren survived. Jacob. Donner's family would not be so lucky. All of them. Jacob Donner, his wife, all the kids only three out of the nine survived the reads, however, despite losing everything, when James was banished didn't lose a single one. That's incredible. Thanks to the resourcefulness of their mother. Winners win. Yeah, the Breen's they didn't lose any either. Although I would say they owed their greatest share gratitude to John stark. In fact, that's what the mother said. She says, I think, no, I have no one to think, but God stark and the Virgin Mary. Look at that in two of them did nothing. Technically up everything else, even the snow. They did all the bullshit. Far as the rest of them went, the rest of the Donner party survivors. A lot of them they lived full lives. They were quite successful. Horrible PTSD naturally? Yeah. Like, was it Nancy, graves? If you even mentioned the diner party, she would immediately think about eating her own mother and she would burst into tears. Another the grave sisters, she couldn't cry anymore. After she got rescued, she said, if I could, if I could was the quota thing. Something like if I could forget what had happened, I might be able to cry again. But since I cannot I cannot there was another one. There was one other woman that one of the Reed said that she couldn't have Christmas dinner without thinking about the Christmas that they had on Donner lake as after the Donners were rescued. It was no longer Truckee like it was now Donner laying. It was Donner lake, and it was interesting on Christmas days. They did talk about how. Because they saved some stuff. They had these little celebrations inside of the tents where they save some beans. They saved a little bit of meat. They manage to kill a grizzly bear at one point and divided it up, which was very, very Dow was an intense fucking battle. There's there's so much here for a movie that is yet to really be like expressed. It's like just the idea revenue style of going out and killing a grizzly bear, essentially with their fucking hands and dividing the meet up us. Very, very, yeah. And that's why we keep saying, go read the indifferent stars above because our to coverage on this. We're skimming the fucking surface on what this story actually is this story there. So many like there's so many stories like the grizzly bear story where of one do shot like single handedly took down eight hundred pound grizzly, and there are tons of stories like that stories of heroism stories of cowardice. And that's why this. The Donner party story is so fucking amazing. And then even what happened to some them afterwards is a great story. Sarah graves, remember her. She lost both. Her husband and her father on the four, Lauren hope journey. Her life just kept getting worse. Well, not worse worse. I mean her second husband, he got lynched as a mule, thief. Going on. Yeah, lynched as a mule thief and ULA mules. I mean, how the hell didn't Rasputin used to steal horses and stuff yet, but that was Russia. On reminded time, what do you do with the stolen you'll ever. It's like, you didn't have a meal yesterday. We're missing them you'll. And now you have a mule immune. You take the meal from far away and then you bring into where you are until all your neighbors. I bought a mule, but now going, you put a hat on it a little jacket and you say my son takes offense what you're saying. No. In the old west, you steal anyone's means a conveyance and your fucking debt shirt. You're one hundred percent debt cattle rustlers too. And Maryanne, graves can Sarah graves sister. She married one of her rescuers, but he was murdered in eighteen forty eight. And she actually sat there and cooked meals for her husband's murderer. Why? So he wouldn't starve while he was waiting to be hung. 'cause that's what actual quote unquote Christian morals are supposed to be, which is that you care for people, I'm why was he killed? We know I can't remember why exactly why he was murdered by. I mean, it was murder. It was straight straight up murder, but others totally leaned into this. Like a lot of them gave accounts to the press and Elisa Donner. She published a memoir, but she also denied all accounts of cannibalism, which we know very much to be true. Right. And even Kesse Berg, the. Cannibal. He was rumored to have opened a restaurant in Sacramento, although this clean, I say, the claim is highly dubious relation of only man. I 'cause like I'm unfortunately I would go, I would go. We don't get out. Of course, we'd all go. Yeah, and so the saga of the Donner party comes to a close, and if there's any lesson to be learned from taking a shortcut, you've never seen touted by men. You've never met. It's this. Do you want it done fast or he'll want it done? Right. Thanks. Dad. Bad if it's slightly wrong way run longer. That's that's the thing they tried doing it fast because they tried doing it fast. They fucked up. You gotta take your time. You gotta put in the work and then eventually it's gonna pay off. Feel like you would really like basketball when Jerry West one stop on mental mental. Demento. I love the way the white people teach basketball. Honestly, guys, this story sell fucked with like you get to the end of it and you're just like, I am hungry. I'm also when I was watching it no extra ninety. I'm not gonna say that at all either one of us at no point when I was researching that, I think like, ooh, cheeseburger time you. Donald Trump goes overseas to be with a dictator, and he's like, I could go for a parade kill some dealers. Research, the research, you just come away like I get it. I can jump into their heads. You know what it is that I will say. That's a part of this kind of story to definitely was reading it outside. It was, I took a break from working in office over here, and I went to go read the book outside and it transports you to that place. I'm very scary, especially in the very end when you were talking about being in the the the snow hovels and they're stuck down there on the you have no other way out it. Those are the types of like when I have reoccurring nightmares. My nightmares have been, I'm stuck on the side of a mountain and I can't get down man. I would love to see you get arrested like Onlive PD, reading the book. Don't take my book. My motoring, your. Wow, awesome. Well, that is totally crazy. That's insane. Right. I'm surprised. I didn't realize how many people actually survived. Yeah, which is really impressive considering they didn't have shoes in the middle of the winter in the in the mountains. Yeah. I mean, it was just the the amount of suffering that these people went through cannot be understated. I understand. Again, I were very light jacket. I walked all the way to Hollywood video. Seven degrees and it was very cold. I will say there is a part of this. That is it's kind of uplifting in a win there is where do we? We can survive a lot are actually not that frail like we can pull through and do shit each just have to want something if the wanna survive if they have something to live for and they all had that they were different tier. People were filled with dreams. Yeah, no apps. It doesn't happen today. Today's America. No one's. We are not. We're not capable. Even the pressures I think would probably. Oh, you're going to survive without your tactical bath dry? Exactly the prep. They love freeze dried food, and they're eating like kings in there. I've seen. All right. Well, let's wrap it up here. Thanks to much forgiving to our patriot Henry. I had a great interview this week with Caitlin Doty. She is a, she runs a what's? What's the name of her. The name of her book is smoke, gets in your eyes. And basically she runs a mortuary and we talk a lot about death and mortuary science, and it's quite bats. I hear that book is fucking great. Yes, she was off. Great. It's a very good. It's. It's a fun read and you learn a lot about funerals? Yes. And of course you can find all of us on social media and things like that. We, what do we do? We want to announce anything. We have anything to announce, not quite. We're still we're coming to DC. Go check out DC and November for the death becomes festival Google for that or us being. I'm using now. Being Joan USA. L.. And we're also we're going to be announcing a big tour here. Coming up soon. We're going to be returning to. We're going to be returning new place. We've been before big bigger or bigger thing might be bigger. Very excited for this hit the road. I miss me. Boys follow us on Twitter or whatever the fuck it is you want, I guess at LP on the left's role that shush. All right, everyone hail yourselves, hail Satan. Gene. Helmi Magoo solutions donated child's brain don't. The map is not a territory. Remember that always.

Donner party Truckee lake Charles Stanton Donners Luis George Donner Franklin Patrick Dolan Sierra Nevada Henry Salvador California hypothermia Lauren hope Breen Murphy Iraq George Donner Donner Alfred Packer Tunis
Richard Donner: 'Superman'

It Happened In Hollywood

53:16 min | 8 months ago

Richard Donner: 'Superman'

"I everyone and welcome back to it. Happened in Hollywood the penultimate episode. Did I use that word? Yes right okay next to laugh the next to last of this off season two right. We're still waiting on our pickup for season. Three we're hopeful. His fingers crossed South Abramovich ear senior writer at the Hollywood reporter. And I'm chip pope. This is like a couch gag like a simpsons couch gag. I say something that I see something humorous right. Laugh right exactly. It said well how about just this is where we have a couch gag and that will count as like Meta so the couch gag is the is the couch gag. Yeah like on Samson's they'll have a couch gag and then they'll run away and they'll be another couch or something. This is all right fine. We have something truly fantastic in store for you today. We have director Richard Donner a true Hollywood legend director of some of the most beloved movies of all time. The goonies our beloved guineas lethal weapon series. Yeah he did. The whole lethal weapon series. He did the woman. Wow that exorcist adjacent. Yes supernatural Hara and The topic of this week's episode a movie. That is very important to me Superman. The movie from Nineteen Seventy Eight starring Christopher Reeve and Margot kidder slowest lane and Marlon Brando and Gene Hackman. And that Baid and Valerie perrine what it has to be had here. Wow Yeah incredible. Cast and really the First Big Budget Studio Superhero movie. Yes and the kind of broke the mold. I don't know I watch superhero movies now and they just don't hit the tone. The Way Superman movie did right. So we'll have Richard for you right after the theme song on. Okay welcome back on the show. We have certain movies and people that resonate with us and you know we ask a lot of people not everyone says yes but Richard was definitely at the top of my list. This season I really wanted to get him specifically to talk about this movie. You Love Superman. Right is very important. I do it kind of changed my life as a six or seven year old kid. I think that was when I realized what movies could be do. And I went to the store where they You can get a decal you pick the decal from a book and they put it on. T. Shirt and I picked superman. The movie and wore that shirt is shredded. Oh my gosh. Our family had the video disc of this movie. Oh wow RCA video disks remember that outmoded technology. Yeah it was like a record a play it was kind of Split. The difference was a VCR and a record player and it had like one of those vitrolles speaker from ours as elective. It had a really good picture actually. And so Richard said yes and it just so happens that his production offices are down Wilshire Boulevard from where Hollywood reporter's headquarters are so we all just scooted down the boulevard and went to his offices. And what did you make? Those chip is an amazing office. He has all the clapper boards from his films on the wall. That's right on the ceiling lining the ceiling. He has all these clapboards everywhere. You look. There's some sort of memorabilia from one of his amazing iconic movies. The boat from the goonies not the entire boat that would take up too much space but a model of the ship from the knees in a corner of his office and he keeps sloth in the closet crazy. I had no idea I was going to be there no. He doesn't do that but he's amazing he's eighty nine. He even had like a board with all the index cards lethal weapon five. He's still writing and prepping lethal weapon. Five it's amazing. He's sharp funny unpretentious and you are going to love this. Here's US meeting Richard Donner in real time. This is US sitting down and talking for the first time where. You're here with a total legend. Donner yes do you like to be called a Dick or Richard. Yes okay okay. Even if people don't know that well you like Dick Donner Peter. Whatever whatever comes out easy so why. Don't we just jump right to where you were before Superman so you had made the Omen right right movie? Yeah Gary Movie Scared The hell out of me all right the jackal baby and the rate for the pre who? Oh my God. That was dark stuff. It was dark. It was really scary with that kind of riding a wave of the exorcist. No frigging exodus. If we'd come out before we would but exer- scared off so many people they didn't go to it but no they It was ready. It wasn't a wave it was The producer had that material and was at every studio in town get turned down and then Alan Ladd who used to be my agent and was head of Fox and somebody slipped me the script because it was at Warner brothers and being turned down that weekend and I read it and I kind of saw in my head why was being turned down and I went down with it. And he's let's make so it just happened to be the right moment. The right time right everything I wish we had been in front of Billy friggin but Navin I sense a little bit of a rivalry there and that at all I love them. Respect him so how does one go from a cult satanic film like that smaller? Some mystery suspense thriller that to to you know the biggest comic book movie ever made at that point a telephone call on a Sunday morning. Hung over still a little stoned from producer with a Hungarian accent. Who said I'll give you a million dollars to make a my movie. Whatever that's the Talian why I gave up acting and was the total guy. Said I have this script. I'll give you a million dollars. It's two pictures. One end to. He said a million dollars immediately. I knew somebody whose putting me on. What am I friends especially with the accent? But the guy convinced me. He had done a lot of movies. One was the three musketeers. Which with excess footage. They made the four months Katina and didn't want to pay the actors. There's I believe there's a clause called the sole kind closet the screen actors guild that you have to declare now who are since then. How many pictures you making 'cause they gotta work with but anyway that's for the producer soul kind reds right. So he's working with the infamous salkind's on Superman are these guys it was a Kind of shady dude and his son and so they've been trying to get the rights for Superman for a few years and finally they got the rights to it and I don't know where they got their money from shake and look it up but they're just weird notorious for doing something just like they did with the three musketeers footage. Let's make the two movies. They were just kind of stereotypical. Let's make lots of money and as you'll see Dick Donner got screwed over for Superman to even though he made superman one such a masterpiece which made tons of money but because they were Kinda shady producers he gets squeezed out of his own franchise but more to come on that a little bit later so he gets the script for Superman from them. And it's by. Mario Puzo wrote the original draft of the Godfather Fan. Yes wow that's five hundred and fifty pages long for both Super Man's got paid six hundred grand for it and so it's just kind of a auspicious start and dog head. Turns up in the bed with no. But it's just a crazy starring Richard Donner to get into bed with these sultans. So these shady producers call him he shows interest in the project even though he thinks it's a prank call and this is what happens next. He sent the script over like him. I flush the toilet. The doorbell rang. Who's at tight and I read it and Was Not a great comic Book Fan. But I read Superman kid and It was always truth. Justice the American way in some way there was a dignity to not shouldn't have been under the comic book his was a parody on a parody and I called a dear friend I've known for years I always wanted to work with great writer. Tom Mankiewicz I said. I think I've got the project we could work together on. What is it Superman? And he hung up on me. I got him back and I said No. I'm serious. You know you're not I'd say I am Tom. Just come over and read this. And he didn't live for so I took another couple of hits and they had sent over a package of the script which was like script. Was you get hurting carrying? It was to Moos terribly written but not the writers faults it was director will who had been on it because he was directing him to parody. This had no sense of reality. For what Superman could or should be and then he vent put on A. It's probably history now but I put on a superman costume because they sent it. Who's terrible as a matter of fact yet? That's it. That was handmade one end. Of course we never use the one for Rivas wearing. Yeah looks pretty good. Oh just terrible. Anyway I came running lawn when Tom out of his car and almost panicked but he read it and we came up with the thought that the challenge would be to Meghan unrequited love story of two guys in love with the same girl. Both two guys. This is going to be a major role for some actor in our heads just to be able to play both roles and of course Christopher Reeve played it better than anybody but that and the fact that we had to make the audience believe a man could fly and so Thomson. Y'All do it then. I had a terrible fight with the producers. I said I do want to rewrite. No you don't have to and that's why I walked. And then they called it okay right. We brought Tom on and the rest is as they say. History some great stuff in that story there first of all Mankiewicz not name definitely rings a bell. So who is he chip? Well Tom Mankiewicz was the son of Joseph. Mangku it's okay wrote and directed all about eve and then he's the nephew of Herman Mankiewicz. Who wrote Citizen Kane so quite a movie legacy and then of course Ben Mankiewicz is on Turner Classic Movies? Yes from Anklewicz. Those great uncle or something. I don't know I lost track. But they're all relate. Yeah so I love that image of Richard Donner putting on. This is a superman costume that they gave him running across the lawn to greet his friend and convince them to sign on to do this Rewrite it's quite the image. Yeah and then of course. He showed us a photo later of Christopher. Reeve wearing the costume. That was pretty great so Tom. Mankiewicz is on board rewrite it. So what would you think he meant by like a parody of Parody Lake campy probably and he didn't want that bright so Mario Puzo has written this campy version of Superman two hundred fifty Cami pages. Yeah what do you call it? A parody of parody and I think what he was trying to get at with banquets was something more rooted in reality. Something the audience can really attach themselves to write because until that point superman was a television show in the fifties but it wasn't a serious property and no one really took it that seriously now superman at the time was the TV show in the fifty s which the flying material that they gave us that they had been preparing production for a year. Was that kind of flying. It the guy laying on board with a couple of ropes and smoke being blown by him. I mean that's all they had. We had to start from scratch. Sorry I didn't mean to interrupt you know not at all. I'm curious you know so. People didn't take superman very seriously exactly from that. Show right. That was sort of just kitty stuff. But as a kid you did I remember as a kid. I took that seriously right that Jack Armstrong or whatever that allows the incredible hulk seriously but you watch it now and it's yeah so this was was there ever took the incredible I did. What was your childhood like? I was angry but I'm just wondering because it is still accepted as the template of these serious epic Blockbuster Comic Book Movies that have now completely taken over Hollywood. And I'm wondering if at any point you you all sat and said we can change the way people see comic books. We can make something you know real important and lasting. No no no no no because we hello there were made comic book movies before the TV shows. There were some that. Were done before Superman but I had not seen them. Our approach to it was that this had to have a sense of reality within its own reality and as I said You. Original script took this parody of life imperative on top of it so when it couldn't you couldn't treat it as a reality couldn't treat a love story is a love story. You couldn't treat Clark Kent Lois Lane in Superman has jules and Jim so we approached it just that this had its own reality. It's not real. But it's real within its own moments in time and that approach worked because like you said kids take it seriously and low. We'll seth was. They're taking it seriously. I was taking it seriously. So this tone that he struck really nailed it. Yeah all right. So the movies ago the rewrites happening and of course it came prepackaged with Marlon Brando and Gene Hackman. Right they were not negotiable. But who would want to negotiate nausea hanging in your movie so the problem was they needed a superman. Richard felt since they had two big stars. They didn't need a big star to play superman so they went looking for superman. When I came on the picture it had been in pre production for I think a year or two and They're casting was to approach stars. Who were they at the time? Paul Newman Redford stallone. I mean you name them and they they wanted those people because they wanted a name and I said look you've kind of Marlon Brando and gene. Hackman you don't need a name and not only that if we're GONNA make this thing work I just can't see Robert Redford in tights flying over metropolis. We have to find a new or a real superman and we lots of arguments as you can see. I didn't get along with them and Casting director I need some of my office. Lynn stall master two billion. Yes Oh great Greek theater and he said I saw this kid and I play downtown the other night and I want you to meet and I said swell and we were on the tenth floor of the Sherry Netherlands in New York of Summer Day. Windows were open in the window flies. This kid stands on them window Silva wind blowing in his hair. He steps in is you can fly. That's automatically gets you. The party's thank you know he sat down. Were you going this? And he was very skinny picture and his hair was going to light blond light brown rather put the whole thing was. He was so serious when he talked about the character. And when you read that all of a sudden it was like I'm hearing a myriad the way it was written by the way I wanted but I had a problem. The kid was skinny so that night I went to see him in a same play down in the village and he was wonderful. Really wonderful great presence so I called him back and I said listen. I don't know how are we going to do this? But we're going to build you up. If you he said I was a jock all my life he said and I and I was built up as another fifty pounds heavier. He decided to become an actor. I lost all that weight because I didn't want to. I can you put it back. He said I promise so. We hired him. I mean I shot a screen test with him in that outfit with perspiration rings under the things and Black Shoe Polish hair and my when he did Clark antiwar my worn rim glasses and when he came to England we put him with the actor that was in the wookey. What that Big Peter Mayhew? Yes he was a weightlifter in a body builder and he worked with Chris. And you could actually see a day by day as his body starting to come out so Had we find soup? And that's how I tested so many people because the studio wanted them tested including the dentist of the wife of the producer who physically looked like a mentoring but but poor guy was he was a good dentist has done this Sunday work. Stay away from it. Any fan boys listening. You have to be happy about some of the stuff to back up with. Christopher Reeves trainer to get him bulked up to play Superman seven foot two inch. I'm Peter Mayhew Tobacco King Out. Yeah and now. He's training Superman and a dentist. And then you get a bonus little story about the sleazy producers. Who Somehow got his wife's dentist audition. Yes with this Dennis. We can film seven Superman for the same price a cheap. And he'll do all of our team. That's probably the producers. Pitch all right moving right along so we have. Christopher Reeve this Very little known juilliard. Grad. Doing some local theater New York. Who's now superman right? And they need his romantic foil. The dog a journalist. Lois Lane Margot. Kidder was not necessarily the only choice. There were others and if you go online on Youtube you can see additions of some of the other actresses who tried to be Louis Lane. But here's how Richard got to the decision to cast. Margot we were watching. Some of the Screen tests. They have them on Youtube for Lois Lane. Lesley Ann. Warren wanted them right. Lesley Ann Warren. How about a glass of wine fi now then Is it true that you can see through anything and you are totally impervious to pain? Well so far. What Color Underwear am I wearing? Think and channing was did doctored too. You're right my God i Clark. I just didn't hear you knock. The door wasn't even locked. I mean just anybody can walk in here. I'll go running yourself down again perfectly serious well anyway here. Little little something for the newlyweds dinner tonight. How different would you believe they? They grow wild all around here. You should see what they're charging for roses that gift shop imagine from all good. They're all interesting. There were three or four of them. There were there. Were really interesting. Was Something Lois Lane. That I couldn't put into words sell how I was looking for it and I got this. The God's honest truth I was in London and I come back to the states for some reason California and Lynn stole master. Said while you're there there's an actress I want you to meet. She was in a series called nickels with Garner at one brothers Nichols Ouza a western. She was in it and I- fatally remembered her. She stood out anyway. We had an appointment and she came in to see me and when she came through the door of this office she either tripped on the threshold. Or whatever and when flat on her face and just kind of lay there on the floor look up if he says hi and just say this is her. This is Lois Lane. This is that the calamity I was looking for but I couldn't put a new word brought her over to England and she screen tested with Chris and she was just wonderful. Just great the two of them. Just the media. How do they say chemistry? I can't define that. But whatever that means they had it and it just got better and better and better. Let's just say that your average Joe can't deliver Mila without putting stamp I wouldn't do. Lois gets a law. I don't believe I never lie. Well just how fast do you WanNa know really never actually time myself say? Why don't we find out together? I'm just how do you suggest that we do that? Take a ride with me screwed story. I Love Marco. I'm so sorry for passing so early in life but Margot's just a one of a kind sheet. I I have a terrible as you can. I can remember anything especially names. I couldn't remember Margot's aim or something you said just so many people and so many names and I got to add that So she started because I couldn't remember her name she'd call me Harry Never Dick and When the picture came out she did an interview. My mother called me and she's talking about she said what was your job on super managed. Mom I directed he said well. You know look. Did you do anything else I should know? She's a will need can tell me the truth. I said mom. What are you talking about? She said I saw Margot kidder on a television of you. And she said the director's name was Harry just hung with loved Margot. Yeah she was perfect. The others were good. They were really good but it was. Just another incident happened with Margot. Shortly after we started shooting to make ban came in to my officer was on the set or something and said he ended problem. I said what he said. Margo had scratched her by putting her contact him. I said Oh God bad. He's no you can't even notice it. He said but you can't wear contacts. Just WanNa work ice pool shit so I gotTA is Margot. Come on you gotta sit. Okay all right Ari so what I noticed. When she never contacted was she kept her eyes really wide lot of people's squint. She did y deceit and because she couldn't see that well it was the same tripping that she did when she came in the door for casting she bump into a dish he pushed. I said Oh my God is Lois Lane is coming. So I forget reshot everything I shot and made her work without her contacts which she was livid and try and sneak them in but I would have makeup. Tell me when she had him in or not but it gave her. This wonderful character physically helped her to find it in her own. Little way it was special woman. Wow so it's just a case of finding the perfect people for the parts. I mean he's found Christopher Reeve Margot kidder. They're not huge stars or anything. But you got your brand though you got your Hackman and then render them legally blind. That's the secret. There will make sure your lead. Actor's can't see to read her lines and she's just bumps into things and becomes instantly charming now as you mentioned before they had done some development before the project came to him and they hadn't put too much thought into the special effect of flying and we're just going to sort of do it the way they did it on the TV show which was very hacky and fake looking approximation of flying right and he was determined to push to the next level and the put it in Hollywood history context this is right after star wars so star wars had just done all these amazing special effects up the game. You got to up the game with Superman. But I don't know if he was comparing himself to other movies he just knew that. If you could not achieve the flying allusion you could not sell the movie with a very strict schedule. Both brand new Hackman had been signed committed to certain times and I had to stay within those times. Did you cast them or they were cast their cast already. Are you kidding? The Guy said to me on the phone million dollars Marlon Brando and Gene Hackman. I didn't need a laxative was like Oh my God so To get the production done with all these effects. We had a miniature unit and interior and exterior. We had process units of painting. We had a flying unit. We had the second unit we had stunt unit. We had driving unit to setup shots for the desert trip and he had A. I had this cart golf card and I had who's be none for his sophisticated period and I had seven of these walkie talkies in. He was a different and somebody would come on. And say we need you on stage six and I run over there and try and get that done. Meanwhile addie anyway. That's TV's route here. The Flying Unit was predicated on front protection so the audience. The Difference Between Front and rear is in rear projection. The actor stands there and behind him. Projected on a screen is a visual of some sort that he fits into perfect. And if it's done right it does look very much. Like he is in that background and that unit that project exit ways damn near time it's not incandescent or lights and then there was a front projection unit and that would be a unit where the actor would stand in front of the camera and behind him was a screen with nothing on it. But could project. Your was projecting from the Front. Not The back. Pass the actor onto that screen and you try to marry the two together and it was pretty good but in mobile it you couldn't everything was rock. Solid with heavy machine guy came to me in. England. Names Zoran pick their remember. Who said he had invented a front projection unit with Zoom Lenses? That either way thirty five or forty pounds. This was against one way to ton so even though it wasn't perfected the producers wouldn't give me the money to help him develop it but warner brothers stepped in and gave the money and day after day. After day I gave all unit. Great cameramen a great crew. Great Effects Guys. I'd leave them alone and they would try all these different and it went on and on and that unit worked for about eight months or a year while we were there trying to get a shot that look like a man could fly. And one day and Daly's Iowa always invite the cruise the dailies or the cast day ran their latest test. And I'll be God damned. Christopher Rivas who've been literally flew. I mean it was amazing and not only. Was there applause. There were tears. He's taken us so long. So Zoran pethick and his front projection. Unit is what made Superman flying gave it the authenticity that we had been looking for and the tagline of the film ended up being. You will believe a man can fly. Yes no no. I don't know if it was tag on film but it was the advertising online. You will believe a man can fly and did that come straight from your directive at the beginning we need to believe a man comply. Maybe oh that's interesting so say that. Yeah Zoran Zoran. Was the Superman of the superman movie. Right and the LEX. Luther is Producers what are they? Yeah we don't want to give you the money they make it look like a guy can convincingly fly. Just put him on a table Hairdryer and his face but Zoran look this up. The process is called Zap Dick. So it's like zoom optic so the combine these front rear projectors with Zoom Zoom. Right enemy lighter so you let you move the camera around. I guess yes so. They've got this grip. They've got the two characters they're flying. He's making the movie I mean. This is our first episode involving Marlon Brando. Which is kind of exciting. Yes Hollywood legend the most legendary weirdest but most brilliant actor of all time right so of course. Brando was cast as Jerrell Superman's father on the home planet of Krypton. And let's just say though it's a small part he's not going to be in the movie that much. It's amazing white hair in it right but when you added altogether at the time it was the most money than an actor ever got paid for a few minutes right because he ended up like he ended up with points in the movie made like nineteen million dollars off being in the movie for like seven minutes or something. It's crazy. He barely even wanted to be in the movie even though he signed onto it. Here's the story. I was coming back to do some news and they set it up for me to meet Brando and I decided I come back. Bring who has cautioned was gonNA look like an with sets. Look like I called a fellow named Jay Cantor who was a very prominent agent Marilyn Monroe Marlon Brando and I had met him a few times through Alan ladd. When I did the allman and I said look. I'm going back to the states to me has to Brando is your insight. You can give me and he said well he said I'll tell you this. He said he's going to play it like a red suitcase. I said what he I spoke to him. He felt he sees it as a red suitcase. What do you? What does that mean he said? Hey what it means. It means that he loves the money and he hates to work so he can convince you that the people from what's your planning a script on he said if they look like green suitcases then you'll photo care for green suitcase and all. He has to put some voice to when always around. He'll get paid and could his voice. He doesn't work and that's his way out and I said. Oh my God so I had this and then I decided to call because I knew Francis Coppola Francis and I said. Give me a hint. What do I do with this guy? He wants to play green suitcase. He said Oh you to her. I said yeah he said Look. I can go on for hours about him. He says he's a genius. He's a great guy but he talks too much and if you really listen because he hates to work but if you listen. He said he'll use the trip himself up so I came back with that and I went up and I met him at brought trauma banquets and the producer and he was very gracious and sat down in his living room. We had a cup of coffee. And we're talking about this. And that and he kept talking about his kids and he said the united tell some stories at night before he goes to bed. He said these kids are amazing. He said I told him about Fox at jumped over the wall around a log and the kids who don't dare day he jumps over the logging around the wall. He said they know everything. And anyone on and on and on and after about an hour of being just mesmerized by this man he looked as well. That's not why you're here. You're here to talk about my role and what I look like everything. He said I have thought I said Here comes the suitcase I said. Yes Mr Rando and he said what if I play this like a Bagel. What a Bagel. I said I was prepared for a suitcase. Being Bagel slice it. He said well. You know people on same thing. He said people on gripped on look like Bagels and. I made my son in the image of an earthling. And that's why Senator I. It's really an interesting idea Tom. Maga's looking at like shut up. I said but you know I gotTa tell you said this was came out in nineteen thirty five or nine and since then kids around the world. They know what Superman looks like. And he doesn't look like a Bagel. He looks like you and he looked at me and he said I talked too much. I I says no sir. He's an okay. Show me my cousin from thereon. In he was a doll he just was a pleasure. Fascinating stories were analysts. His contributions were great. He didn't commit a word of dialogue. All had to be on paper on had actress chest. Who he was looking at or when he held the baby up to do his little. Que- The doll we cut a hole in it and pull TV monitor and had the dialogue going so he was reading. It's McClellan never leave even in the face of all the richness of our lives old old and I've done everything I feel all this and more. I I quit you my mom when I would say why. Are you what he said? Look if I go home in rehearse this for hours with somebody by the time I come in here and I go to shoot. He said it's going be so dry and stale. It's ridiculous he's put if I look at it for the first time here. He said I'm going to be kind of stumbling honestly and trying to get through it. He said it's going to be reeler. How was it? That was Marla Moreno. Wait he had a baby with a screen on it. That had the monitor all his lines. So much impact. That was probably Pretty High. Tacked back then. Just have a screen with the lines on it so the little baby superman was like projecting his lines. Yeah we'll teleprompter baby. I love it. I love that Marlon. Brando's GonNa make nineteen million dollars for this movie and it's like yeah might be better if I'm not in it. Why don't we just do like a voice over a green suitcase or Bagel? Talk about trying to get away with stuff. Got Admire that work ethic. That's true so we should mention that. He's also filming Superman too right at the same time curse filming all this footage that all footage in the can they got superman one. They got seventy five percent of Superman too. Yeah and he didn't have any music yet right. So it's been this Herculean task. Guess is what I'm getting at and then goes home every day and smoke the DOOBIE. Yes we're not telling tales out of school but post-productions always kind of a big task but it's kind of a Herculean task because he's essentially. He's making to Superman's but he's got to do the first one. I put it together. He's got to get the music. He Hires Jerry Goldsmith and then Right now doesn't work out jinx. We're like one brain so he goes to John. Williams who of course had a lot of success during the Star Wars Soundtrack and Also the score for jaws which had just come out. He obviously would be a great choice for any movie but then his scheduling didn't work out and then went back to Goldsmith. And then that didn't work and so much of Hollywood history timing I think yes but of course he did get John Williams in the end and we got that iconex score. He makes that music. Say The word Superman in the any of the ended in A. I can't remember but superman down to it actually speaks. He's amazing person. Dante Data Dom. Don a superman noticed that before they go missing. The other thing he talked about was a great title sequence. Oh my God. It's so cool. You know how words complying you and they have they like trails. I mean it's almost like you're on an acid trip or something with the trails of the amazing started mine at that opening sequences like seven minutes. Long all day hypnotized. He told us about the guy who did that. Who actually passed away in two thousand eighteen? His name was Richard Greenberg and he did some of the best title sequence of all time he did aliens and he did the untouchables but superman aliens. I think I mean alien within. No S are his two most famous title sequences and of course he was working with no computers or anything he was just using. This crazy machine was called an ox brewery so we finally have sort of a working print something we could show an audience and everyone's waiting around for it whereas let's see Superman. Where Superman Wade Superman? Everyone needs some soupy. I'm the producer of the movie. We have seven Super Man's right. Now I love Hungarians of unspecific origin so I don't know where you are from Mexico. I'm not kidding. Yeah it's just like so who knows but Okay so what Richard Donner were. So just moving right along he. He's done the post production he has. The score. Is the title sequence. He has the effects. But everyone's waiting around for Superman. I came back from London having finished the film and we came back and we were going to bring the work. Print is before an optical a neg- negative was cut together. We were going to bring the work print and screened for an audience. Because I had never screen the picture for an audience and the deal was produces would let me bring it to the states and one brother would set up a special projector to make sure this didn't tear and we would run it for The first audience ever to see it. And when I got back here I got a call from one of the boroughs that they were in litigation with the producers. I vaguely remembered at something to do. With the fact that there was a distribution date and that's where the producers at an obligation deliver the picture by that date but we. We brought it in three weeks early at that point. So the studio booked theaters predicated on the fact that we be homeless a month early. But I think the producers said well if you want to bring it in early you're GONNA have to pay a million dollars a day for every day early with it was another eighteen or twenty million dollars and there was a big fight and therefore they wouldn't let me have my printer screen because they said well you can print that work. Brenton and show isn't theaters has no you can work print. We have to transfer that to positive negative than the original negative and a reversal negative and do the color printing three stripes. That's known so they wouldn't give it. I never saw that movie until the premiered and the day of the premiere was we call it a wet print. It came from the lab hot off the presses to the first screen which I think was in la he was first premier in La and so that was the first time I actually saw the movie with an audience. You weren't able to jog it out to not be there. Were no changes. That's gotta be terrifying terrifying. It was so that was a screening. That was the premier that we had three permits. We had a premier there. Then we went to Washington DC for the president and we had a screening there and and The producers wouldn't give me a pass to come in and be part of the screening the introduction to the president. Why they so mean to you they were. They were getting upset. I was getting him said but all three shootings well then we have the screening in New York which we kind of call the premier although the Washington DC was and then we had one in London so we had like four premiers for this off this movie and after the first one I totally relaxed. We had a good picture right. This other movie was out of the gate at the premier's really well received. How could it not be? It was so good right one interesting bit of Superman comic history. Was that the creators of Superman. Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster were at the New York Premiere. And we'll here. We'll let Richard. Tell the story but it's pretty amazing. When they saw the movie at the Premiere New York one was blind. The other was a mail carrier trying to make a living. Wow when I had heard about that earlier I went to the head of the studio. Why was still shooting and I said this can't be hell. Can you have two guys has created a dynasty and a whole different outlook on life for children and having struggling to make a living and when they heard about it they stepped up and gave them both wonderful wonderful financial commitments for the rest of their lives but anyway when they saw they had held back not knowing for sure what they were going to see but when they did they presented me with a Lebron's have superman that they had made in nineteen thirty? Something and to this day. It's at at. My House is beautiful sculpture of Superman. All right so in the end it grossed one hundred thirty four million dollars on its fifty five million dollar budget while probably would make a lot more if it came out today right. That's talking money from forty years ago adjusted for inflation. Yeah but even like I think. Now the superhero movies are like it just would have been a bigger event. I don't think people knew quite what's coming right right when this movie came out but it wasn't the number one movie of the year but it was third behind animal house in Greece right. So nineteen seventy eight goodyear lot. We home cinema. Yeah Yeah but when you look at it in terms of time superman came out in around Christmas and those other movies came on the summer. Doesn't mean superman made all that money. I love that you know on top of your head do scary. Probably you know ultimately animal house and its animal house. I'm sure ended up making more money as far as how much it costs too much. It made so animal house. Probably didn't cost much at all right. Well it wasn't a fixed driven blockbuster. All three good movies. We recommend them if you've never heard of them. Greece Animal House spoiler alert man obvious recommendations of the week so as we suggested before Richard kind of got pushed out of a soprano even though he directed in the can like three quarters of it right. It's an amazing movie to the rare sequel that equals or at least two stands alongside the original brought back. Richard Lester who directed a hard day's night but also directed those three musketeers movies. So probably three of one through seven seventy. I have a feeling they had a hand in Superman. Three with Richard. Pryor considered the worst movies ever made anyway amazing to talk to Richard Donner and hear how he did this by the way. Santa Shop mentioned if you're interested in seeing the Richard Donner cut. It's out there. The Superman to Richard Donner cut. Oh Wow is available and the old school formats but maybe on streaming and stuff too. But I know it's out as a blu-ray for the Geeks so Richard as we suggested is still as you can see is still very much on top of his game and is aware of what's out there and You know we were curious what he thought of where comic book movies went from the time of. Superman and the dark turn. They've all taken. It seems like they're all trying to outdo themselves with the dark gritty versions of themselves and he's keeping up with them and he has interesting thoughts on it. They're successful so I guess that's what the audience wants every film I make or made who are about to make my next one but everyone I make. There's always a feeling of hope or up at the end of the movie. I just his enough said as many many times enough depression bullshit out there turn on the news. It's free. Why go pay fifty bucks go to a movie and come out depressed? I think there's a fantasy about movies to make you feel up and great i. I saw the joke of the joker. The other night me to do that does really well made. But I don't know why I don't know why you put it's brilliant. Yeah it's really know why. I don't know why you need to do that movie. Well you do in a strange way because you've seen movies with the joker but he just came on the screen and he was part of who was he. Why was he there? And how did he get there to see this guy's history and how he became the joker and what his life was like? I thought it was fascinating. I think it was really well written but I thought the actor walking team. Yeah definitely Oh my God none a moment of self consciousness and all of that and the director was just wonderful and the raining. So that's the answer to your question anyway. The Ba- stark for like a beat thing. You know like when the joker was just wanted to listen to Prince and Deface Art. You know you need to get nightmares comic books. That's all the diverge and things that come out of a movie today. If it's successful everybody jumped onto something so there you have it. He was a big fan of the joker. This was before the Oscars that we interviewed him. And of course while came went on to win best actor and but it doesn't surprise me kind of fits in. I think with his superman philosophy which was to right away. Strip away the joke penis and to get to the reality of it in terms of Superman. It was a brighter story. Although my two gets pretty dark you have the president of the United States on his knees in front of these alien villains but yeah I think he. He believed it. He went to convince people that a man could fly. You could fall in love with Lois Lane. And he wanted to believe the joker could come out of something right. We also so that's sort of made sense to me that he would like the joker. Yes and in a way jokers kind of direct air to superman because it was popular it was also a critical success. And all of those things. Yeah we're Superman. The movie Superman nineteen seventy eight. Same things I like joker and it reminded me why are like comic book movies and that was something that began with Superman movie. So thank you so much Richard. Donner we were very touched and thrilled that you you did this. I think it's important for you to tell these stories and we were so touched that you did it here happened in Hollywood. We have one more guys and that's it for season two. We hope you've enjoyed it. It was such an amazing experience. So we'll see you here next week when our guest is Zach Galifianakis the very one and a nice thread there because Todd Phillips directed joker and hangover. And it'll all make sense. We promise so until next time. We'll see you in Hollywood.

Superman Marlon Brando Richard Donner Hollywood producer Richard Jerrell Superman Gene Hackman Lois Lane Margot kidder director Tom Mankiewicz Christopher Reeve Superman England Dick Donner US Mario Puzo writer Zoran Zoran
The Donner Party Pt. 2: Nowhere to Go

Survival

53:26 min | 1 year ago

The Donner Party Pt. 2: Nowhere to Go

"The following episode contains descriptions of starvation murder and cannibalism that some listeners may find offensive listener discretion is advised especially for children under under thirteen november fourteenth eighteen forty six the snow was deeper than any william eddie he had ever experienced the mere act of walking through it was exhausting eddie held the rifle close to his chest he he hoped he could find something worth hunting in these barren woods so far it had been slim pickings a fox here an owl there uh nothing substantial enough to revive his family strength eddie stopped just ahead of him. A grizzly bear was rooting getting through the snow. He couldn't believe his luck. Most bears had gone into hibernation by now. He raised the rifle and leveled the at the big furry back. The bear was at the very limits of his range. Even if he hit the lead ball wouldn't didn't do much more than anger it almost unconsciously eddie pop despair bullet into his mouth ready to load the moment he fired tired. I shot glanced off the bears back and the creature wheeled on him eddie ducked behind a tree hurriedly hurriedly reloading the weapon he could hear it charging toward him through the snow. He poured more powder into the rifle and rammed the second ball down down the barrel. As the bear rounded the tree eddie fired his second shot right into its chest at point blank range eddie eddie cast aside the rifle and picked up a large stick off the ground wasting no time he started beating the bear about the head with it to ensure sure it was dead satisfied eddie picked up his weapon and began to drag them massive carcass back to camp for a while while at least this little victory would keep his friends and family alive. Welcome to survival a podcast original. I'm your host irma blanco and i'm tim johnson every monday. We'll take you inside tide incredible true stories of life or death situations you can find episodes of survival and all other podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever ever you listen to podcasts to stream survival for free on spotify just open the app tap browse and type survival into the search bar at par cast. We're we're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast podcast network and if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review wherever you are listening. It really does help. This is our second episode on the donner party. A group of california bound emigrants who got trapped on the eastern side of the sierra nevada mountains during the winter of eighteen forty a six unable to pass over the mountains in the snow they set up two camps one by truckee lake and another by alder creek with with only a meagre group of cattle and oxen left. They knew that if they didn't get out of the canyon soon they would all starve to death in may of eighteen forty six the donner reed party set out west spurned by ambitions of manifest destiny and a shared dream of settling in california. They're leaders. George donner and james read followed a guidebook written by lansford hastings entitled the emigrants guide to oregon and california hastings described a shortcut which he claimed named would've saved them around four hundred miles compared to the usual route to california ignoring warnings against taking the untested route read eidan donner tried their luck at this shortcut in the end it proved to be a treacherous and poorly thought out route by the time they rejoined the proper oppor emigrant trail in september eighteen forty six they had lost a month backtracking and delays shortly afterward james read eight quarrelled with and killed another man which caused him to be banished from the group. He set off towards california with a single companion hoping to rejoin his family once they got there. James reid and walter herron had a very rough time getting through the mountains they ran out out of food early on and on more than one occasion herron suggested shooting and eating reads horse glaucous read refused to consider <music> this idea on october twenty eighth the two starved and exhausted men stumbled into sutter's fort in california as soon as they arrived left it started raining heavily that night they were reunited with william big bill mccutcheon a member of the donner party who had gone ahead a month earlier for supplies before falling too ill to leave also at sutter's fort was edwin bryant a former traveling companion of his who had sent letters warning the donner party not to take hastings cutoff as they sat down over dinner bryant informed read that while they were on the road president james this k- poke had declared war on mexico. The sparsely populated territory of california was on the verge of becoming an american colony but mexico wasn't going to give it up so easily a local u._s. Army commander and former explorer john fremont was looking for volunteers. Take california for the united states due to his military background read was offered a captain's post in one of the volunteer regiments though he longed to do his duty as an american citizen read refused the commission the lack of news from his family troubled him most other settlers. I had reached sutter's fort by now. If the donner party was delayed any longer he feared they'd be snowed in. He told the army recruiters that he had to rescue his family. I but agreed to serve as a lieutenant in the war upon his return as read was recovering in sutter's fort his former travelling companions nations were experiencing the worst winter of their lives. The donner party had been split up into two camps. The larger camp was at truckee lake where fifty nine individuals were hunkered down in four cabins. Margaret reid who had been looking after their family since her husband in james exile had moved into a cabin with the graves family. The green family had a cabin of their own as well as the murphys and the keys burg's the smaller families such as william eddie and his wife moved in wherever they could find extra room five miles to the northeast another group of twenty two men women and children had made camp along alder creek among them were george donner along with his wife children and brother jacob jacob due to what seemed like a minor hand injury george had not managed to complete their log cabins before the snowfall became too heavy to work gin and had been forced to take shelter in three hastily constructed canvas tents. Both camps were set up by the evening of november third win. When a massive storm descended on the sierras it snowed for eight days straight as they hid from the snowfall the immigrants migrants faced some difficult decisions each family that's still had livestock particularly the breen's and the grazes who had half a dozen oxen each face the question of whether they should butcher their whole heard right away or try and work through them one at a time to prevent the meat from spoiling failing to complicate the matter the heads of the less lucky families like margaret reid and william eddy attempted to buy oxen from their neighbors. The reeds could afford to buy two oxen from both the brains and the graves but eddie didn't have as much money to spare. He wound up purchasing the the starved corpse of an ox off franklin graves for twenty five dollars. Once the livestock had been distributed. They set about slaughtering most of with them slaughtering. The oxen was cumbersome work. The immigrants either had to shoot them which risk the bullet ricocheting off the animal's skull or or hold them by the horns as someone with their throat once the livestock were dead they had to be butchered and stored keeping the meat from rotting being wasn't difficult they simply buried the fresh cuts and the snow banks under the circumstances they used every part of the oxen they could feeding whatever meager awful they have left to the dogs as the donner party was butchering their animals and preparing to settle down in early november. James reid lead had finally recovered enough of his energy to leave. Sutter's fort determined to rejoin his family. He turned back east and made for the sierras. He was accompanied by big bill mccutchen who was finally free of his illness and determined to rejoin his wife. Amanda and daughter harriet john john sutter had helpfully provided them with thirty horses a mule plenty of flour and a large cut of beef for their journey to more of sutter's native american me walk employees came with them to manage the horses they faced heavy rain and sleet as they went three days into their trek. The snow had risen by over two feet. It became increasingly difficult to soldier onward as the temperature richard dropped the me walks abandoned them leaving reed and mccutchen to managed thirty horses on their own overwhelmed. They released all but nine of the horses an attempted to forge ahead through the snow on their way they encountered a tent containing to near starving starving settlers who read referred to in his journal as mr and mrs curtis in return for some flour and beef. Mr curtis offered reed. You'd mccutchen some of the meal they had been cooking. When the men arrived a piece of their family dog the weather became exceedingly harsh as reed and mccutchen continued to fight their way east climbing uphill through nine feet of snow dragging nine horses behind them reed and mccutchen grew grew exhausted one day after leaving the curtis's shelter they finally conceded that the weather was too strong for the both of them as the snowfall intensified. The men turned back west. They couldn't have known it but they may have been only ten or twelve miles from reaching their families. Someways at truckee lake when he returned to sutter's fort read described their aborted mission to john sutter sutter told him that there were not enough able bodied men to form a suitable relief party to help them due to the ongoing war with mexico sutter then asked read how much livestock the rest of the party had with them read later wrote sutter made an estimate and stated that if the immigrants would kill the cattle and replace the meat in the snow for preservation there was no fear of starvation until relief could reach them reassured read road out to san francisco where his post in the mexican american war awaited. If the war ended soon maybe able to gather the rescue party he needed as james read road west his wife margaret prepared to hunker down for the winter and wait for rescue in the truckee lake camp. She could not risk bringing her children out into the cold but not all of the settlers had given up hope of escape. The fifty seven year old franklin franklin graves had no intention of getting stuck there all winter. They had no reason to expect a rescue party so they had to get help themselves. The day the snow stopped on november twelfth. He said about rallying a party to scale the mountain later that day franklin raves set off for the mountain with twelve to fifteen individuals all men save for franklin's two daughters they were guided by charles stanton and the to me walks luis and salvador. The expedition was doomed from the start. When the team reached the west end of truckee lake they encountered banks of snow rising almost ten feet high every step sank deep into the snow making forging forward exhausting acting and inefficient soon they could go no further frustrated. They turned back. When franklin arrived back at truckee lake and midnight midnight he had no intention of admitting defeat he only needed to look at the meagre food stores to no they wouldn't last the winter. During during the eight days of snowfall the families had worked their way through almost all of the meet the cattle and oxen had provided them some men had attempted to fish in truckee lake but had little success eventually the river had frozen to solid to break through the ice. William eddie borrowed a rifle from from william foster and set about hunting for the group he was a talented marksman but there were very few animals to be found in the surrounding wilderness on november fourteenth eddy and foster surprise the camp by dragging a grizzly bear carcass in from the surrounding mountainside. They butchered it and distributed the meat between the families female. Grizzly bears can weigh up to four hundred pounds and males can weigh up to six hundred but even even six hundred pounds of meat wouldn't go far when divided between eighty one hungry people within days. The grizzly carcass had been picked clean seen on november twenty first franklin graves group made another attempt at scaling the mountain two days later they returned and defeated another heavy snowfall hit on november twenty sixth preempting another escape attempt but franklin graves was still determined to to break free of their mountainous prison. He had grown up in vermont so he was used inhospitable winters. He said about making snowshoes enlisting the help help of charles stanton and william foster stanton and foster didn't know how to make snow shoes but they could help him gather the necessary materials over the the next few days they hunted through the snow gathering the wooden ox bows from the yoke of their fallen cattle. The bose formed the frames of these snow shoes wile franklin's daughter sara caustic in marianne graves cut strips of rawhide to weave in between the frames foraging for snowshoe materials israel's thoroughly occupied. Many of the settlers as december began on december. Ninth charleston wrote a note to the donner family. The the storm prevented us from getting over the mountains. We are now getting snow shoes ready to go on foot. I should like to get your pocket. Compass as the snow is so so very deep and in the event of storm it would be invaluable. The mules are all straight off. If any should come round your camp let some of our company. No it the first opportunity he received no reply from the donner camp but by this point franklin graves had made enough snow shoes for a reasonably sized foray into the mountain they would have to go with or without the donners help. Franklin went from cabin to cabin <music> gathering able bodied men and women for a final desperate attempt to break through the sierra nevada by the morning of december sixteenth he had gathered sixteen willing volunteers. They only had fourteen sets of snowshoes between them but it would have to do. It was better better to have as many helping hands as possible. This was their last hope had surviving the winter when we return and franklin graves leads a seemingly suicidal attempt to escape their winter in prison <music> soon nominees volcanoes tornadoes earthquakes. These are real life monsters. We like to think we're prepared for a catastrophe but the time and time again mother nature proves us wrong each week the new park cast original natural disasters investigates the earth's most devastating estadio catastrophes and explores. The stories of the people impacted by them. Some of these natural disasters are ancient and shrouded in mystery like the volcanic eruption of mount vesuvius where it's believed that sixteen thousand people died due to heat and suffocation now others are more recent like the eight climbers who were caught in a terrible blizzard in nineteen ninety-six as they attempted to scale mount everest or two thousand eleven sue nami that killed an estimated eighteen thousand people in japan with waves reported three stories high natural disasters remind us that despite humanity's achievements hence we are no match for the fury of mother nature listen and subscribe to natural disasters for free on spotify and anywhere you listen to podcasts now back to the story by december sixteenth franklin graves saves had found sixteen individuals to follow him out of the valley in all the party numbered ten men five women and two boys this included franklin graves his son-in-law and two eldest daughters william eddy william foster the irish bachelor patrick dolan colin and a mexican catalan named antonio they were guided by the three men who had been through the past before charles stanton and the to soon native americans luis and salvador for food. The group brought a few strips of dried beef eddie still had foster's rifle foil and was ready to hunt to ensure that have the strength to keep going the snowshoe party would later be dubbed. The four lauren hope by historians. This term most often refers to a detachment of soldiers leading an offensive with the expectation of high casualties. It was sunny sunny the day the forlorn hope set off from the lake camp. The snow was thick but franklin graves has snow shoes. Were effective in keeping the group from sinking into good halfway across truckee lake two of them turned around charles burger and ten year old william murphy didn't have snow shoes and realized they couldn't keep pace with the others on the second day december seventeenth they reached the east face of the pass luis and and salvatore led the party with the women directly behind them and the men bringing up the rear around midday they reached the mountain wall and started did the arduous climb the snow grew deeper as they ascended even with graves snowshoes. They sank into the snow. Oh with every step the bright sun reflected off the snow in front of them forcing them to squint as they went their eyes began to ache with the early signs of snow-blindness. Everyone in the party had started their journey in good health but a month of rationed food had taken a dramatic toll on their stamina. The thin mountain air force the party to take frequent stops to rest the members of the forlorn hope had dressed themselves does well when they set off and managed to stay remarkably dry during their first the sent on december seventeenth however by protecting themselves against against hypothermia they put themselves at risk for another equally deadly enemy hyperthermia because of their heavy winter clothing they were just as likely to overheat as to freeze during the strenuous climb all fifteen remaining members of the forlorn hope reached the top of if the pass by late afternoon exhausted they set up camp for the night snowfall was intermittent. Ah they made their way across the sierra nevada over the next couple of days charles stanton fell further and further behind often stumbling into camp hours after the others the group was growing concerned as charles was the only one of them who had crossed the mountains in both directions. If they lost cost him they would have to rely on the two native americans for guidance and they did not speak much english to make matters worse stanton was starting to suffer from snow blindness making it harder and harder for him to follow the footsteps of the others on the morning of december twentieth. Stanton didn't bother author rising from their makeshift campground as the others prepared to leave. Mary and graves saw him sitting nearby calmly puffing on on his pipe. She approached him and asked if he was coming with them. Yes he replied. I am coming soon. Marianne set off with the others. There's leaving stanton to follow at his own pace. Stanton never caught up with them. As the snow shoe group made their way along the sierra nevada patrick breen continued his daily journal back by the lake news travelled slowly between truckee lake and the donner families camp at alder creek milt elliott had left for the donner several days ago to check on them and breen hadn't heard a single word from him since when he arrived at the donners camp milt made a gruesome discovery jacob donner owner was dead he had never shaken the horrible feeling of hopelessness as the snow had set in he ignored his family's attempts to feed him one day he had gone to the table in the center of his tent bowed his head as if in prayer and sat still until he died elisa donner would later write of her uncle not even the needs of his family could rouse him to action he was was utterly dejected and made no effort but tranquility awaited him in depth. The family was shaken by this tragedy george donner donner most of all he watched as his able bodied family members dragged his brother's body out of the tent into the snow unable to assist spam due to his hand injury which had become infected at around the same time a group of three single men living nearby died of starvation dr bachchan as he lay weekly on the floor of his cabin joseph reinhardt call to doris wolfing a woman who had been widowed earlier in the journey and when she came over he confessed to the murder of her husband during desert trek a crime he had blamed on pyatt raiders then dan finally free of his guilt he died as the alder creek camp hope hoped to their losses the forlorn hope was struck by a powerful blizzard the fourteen remaining men and women could barely see anything in front friend of them without stanton they relied exclusively on the lease and salvador to guide them but the to me walks were unable to make out any landmarks through the white curtains surrounding the group. They argued amongst themselves. Bringing the journey to a halt there were almost out of food and had no idea which direction was west the foot and hoof prints they had been following up until this point had vanished beneath the snow. Some some argued. They should return to their families. Marianne graves vehemently opposed this saying she would rather die than watch. Her brother and sister starved starve to death at the lake. Eventually the group had no choice but to press on that same afternoon without any tracks to guide them they. He made a tragic mistake. A low ridge rose above them fearing. It led only higher into the mountains. They skirted it to the left wbt and went downhill. If they had climbed miss ridge they would have found themselves back on the established emigrant road and well on their way to this sutter's fort by following deceptive path downhill. They lead themselves into yet another canyon a funnel for the blizzard. They were caught in starvation struck. The forlorn hope on the night of december twenty first that that night as his companions went without food william etty found a parcel among his supplies it was a half pound of bear meat with a note from his wife wife simply saying your own dear eleanor this morsel kept eddie going a tangible reminder of the wife and child he left by the lake nick but by the morning of december twenty third the party was completely out of food hunger and exhaustion weighed on them as they marched with increasing clumsiness downhill their strength flagged all of them sweating and freezing at the same time a horrible double discussion began with no end in sight. How would they sustain themselves for the rest of their journey to sutter's fort hungered nod at them all all and as far as they knew they were the only hope for their family and friends stuck at the lake. If none of them lived through the journey everyone one would die. Patrick dolan finally spoke up the men should cast lots and whoever lost would sacrifice vice himself to provide meat for the others. The group fiercely debated this morbid suggestion while they all found on the idea horrifying they slowly resign themselves to it's grim practicality. They were starving and had no reason to expect another food source to appear they tore off five strips of paper one for each of the men in the party besides luis and salvador who would not been part of the discussion. The fifth strip was longer than the others and would indicate which of the men would be killed. The men drew do one by one when they compared. The fatal. Long strip was in the hands of patrick dolan. The same man who had suggested did the idea in the first place but before he could process what had just happened. The other men surrounded dolan preventing him from i'm running an unspoken question passed between them who would be the executioner after an interminable moment of staring <music> at each other. The men realized murder was still murder. They could not kill one of their own for food. Turning back back to the path eddie grimly pointed out that one of them was going to die soon anyway on the morning of christmas eve the forlorn hope was struck with an intensely cold rain soaking through their threadbare clothing with some difficulty they built a smoky smoky fire in a snowbank beneath some trees once they succeeded. They realized the fire had been built over a snowy stream. The fire melted through the snow. It's embers plummeting into the river below where they had built the fire. There was now just a hole in the ice looking looking down into freezing waters. It only grew colder as the day wore on by dusk. Franklin graves was shaking heavily. Both both patrick dolan and the twelve year old lemieux will murphy had started crying out in despair most likely suffering from a unique blend of shock hypothermia mia and desperate gnawing hunger that night they managed to build another fire with cotton from harriet hikes cloak and and sparks from the flint lock rifle he carried. It was a welcome sight antonio. The mexican cattle jover crawled over to the firepit and and lay down in its warmth a few hours later his hand fell into the firepit and he did not remove it. He was passed carrying ringer later that night. Franklin graves stopped shivering his breathing gradually becoming more. I shallow eddie told him that he was dying. Franklin didn't seem to care. He called sarah vase dick and mary and graves over over to his side. The two women tried to rub warmth into his limbs but he made no effort to assist them. Franklin told his two daughters that the life of the rest of their family depended on their survival. He told them to do whatever they had to do to survive and instructed them not eat his corpse once he died by eleven pm on christmas eve franklin graves was dead the fire your had gone out and it seemed like the twelve remaining settlers going to freeze to death if they didn't do something soon william eddie had an idea and old frontier trick he had just remembered he suggested everyone lie in a circle with their feet toward the middle then he would completely completely cover them with their blankets forming a small low tent this method trap the body heat of the party under the blankets warming them and protecting checking them from the snow. The group agreed and eddie set about erecting this low tents. They all huddled in the circle. Temporarily safe from the harsh wins wins but with this temporary relief from the cold came a greater awareness of their collective hunger franklin graves his final words hung hung over the forlorn hope ominously a promise of relief that they could not ignore forever when they awoke okay at sunrise on christmas day patrick dolan was gibbering madly he started to thrash yell and suddenly he tried to crawl out into to the blizzard eddie attempted to wrestle him back under the blankets but dolan slipped free crawling out of the shelter as he went. He began stripping his clothes off and charging off into the cold half-naked. Dolan is an early example of what forensic pathologists call paradoxical undressing during the early stages of hypothermia blood vessels shut off to conserve warmth in the core of the body causing numbness numbness in all extremities in the final stages of hypothermia. The vessels open back up causing intense feeling of heat to course throughout the body. Even as the victim freezes no doubt dolan had just reached this stage of hypothermia finally dolan return to the rest of the group group and slid back under the coverlet s- he was dead by late afternoon their campsite became known as the camp of death here here the forlorn hope spent christmas day starving while the bodies of their companions lay nearby christmas smith's day for the truckee lake camp was a gloomy affair for the last few days. Margaret reid had been serving her children a glue like brew made made from boiled ox hides. It was nutritious enough to keep them going tasted horrible christmas dinner in the read half of the cabin was a surprise for all of the children margaret had been saving a few dried apples. A teacup full of white beans a little bit of rice to square inches of bacon and some tripe leftover from the slaughtered oxen. It wasn't much but compared to the boiled oxides they had been eating. It was a veritable feast east in the brain cabin. The exhausted patrick breen recorded extremely difficult to find would uttered our prayers to god this christmas morning. The prospect is appalling but we trust in him in their cabin. Levine murphy and eleanor eddie eddie boiled bones for broth and wants the broth was served. They boiled the bones again and again until they were soft enough to be eaten whole five five miles to the northeast at alder creek. The donners eight bones for christmas dinner as well. George donner did very little to help his family on christmas. The infection from his cut hand had spread halfway up his right arm. The man who had been elected to lead the wagon train was was now virtually an invalid back in the camp of death. The men dragged patrick dolan's body over to where they had laid the frozen remains of franklin graves and antonio though they did not speak openly about it the remaining members of the forlorn hope had decided what they were going to do about their starvation. They had come to the unconscious agreement that they would have to eat their deceased companions. It's on december twenty sixth growing mad with hunger the twelve year old lyme. You'll murphy thrashed wildly attempting to escape the tent. He grabbed at the other's arms bid at them crying. Give me my bone due to his size. He was easily restrained. The others forced him into the center of the tent between their feet his sister sarah foster held his head in her lap throughout the night trying to comfort him at around two a m leme. You'll murphy stopped breathing. They dragged him out of the tent and set him by the other three bodies. The renou only ten ten members of the forlorn hope left when we return the forlorn hope finally makes use use of their new food supply now back to the story december twenty seventh eighteen forty six eleven days days after they set off to bring back help the forlorn hope was down to ten individuals five men and five women. They're guide charles l. Stanton had been lost in the snow for others patrick dolan antonio lemieux murphy and their leader franklin graves had died in the last three days by the time the sun rose that morning. Most of the survivors were ready to eat the dead i i they had to start a fire. William etty set out using another old woodsmen trick to get the fire lit. He poured some black powder onto the tinder hinder with hopes that he could force the damp wood to ignite the gunpowder ignited more strongly than eddie expected burning his face ace and hands finally after gathering enough dry tinder. They were able to get a proper fire going when they realized realized what they're white. Companions were planning on doing luis and salvador moved away from the camp and made their own fire the practice of cannibalism. I'm was unspeakably disgusting to them. When the native americans turned their backs on them the three men j foss dick williams eddie and william foster said about butchering the four bodies there was not much meat to be found on the starved corpses but that did not deter the hungry survivors the aid in separate groups so that no one would have to eat their family or watch someone eat their family. An alarming fact casts this gruesome meal into a different light. They had only gone six days without food. This raises the question. Why were they so quick to turn to cannibalism when they possibly had weeks before they were in danger of starvation. The answer is two-fold first. I they were burning calories at an alarming rate while trudging through the snow with the constant hunger and exhaustion. It certainly must have felt like they were starving starving to death and second. They likely didn't know it was hypothermia. Not starvation that killed their five companions after their initial meal they had to make sure that the rest of the meat was portable and wouldn't go bad as they continued making their way towards california so they cut cut the remaining pieces of their companions into thin strips and stretch them beside the fire close enough to dry but not close enough to cook look. It was a pain staking process that they worked out for two days. They were ready to travel again. On the morning of december twenty ninth. They loaded the dried meat into their packs strapped on their snowshoes and resume their journey. They calculated they had about four days worth of human meat beat in their packs. On the morning of january first. The surviving members of the forlorn hope made it out of the valley that had trapped them breath. Even as they escape the snow they did not feel like rejoicing their stores of meat. Were once again diminished. Some of them resorted to eating the strips of rawhide that held their snowshoes together. Jay haas tick had been lagging behind the rest of them his energy flagging from the unrelenting hunting pace eddie fell in step beside him encouraging him to keep going that evening over the campfire. William foster suggested suggested they kill luis and salvador for food. The native americans were growing weaker by the day refusing to eat the dead eating the to me me walks would be preferable to waiting for jay starve or for one of the women to collapse eddie argued against this and after a tense discussion in the group fell into silence when they awoke the next morning both luis and salvador were gone it was suspected that eddie warn them that they were in danger but it's just as possible that they read the body language of their white companions and fled at the same time time. Many of the party trapped in the late camp. Were growing desperate on january. Fourth margaret read prepared to make her own trip through the mountains since before she left. They ate cash the last of the read family. Dogs virginia read later wrote her cousin mary mary about this traumatic incident. We had to kill little cash. The dog eat him. We ate his head and feet and hyde and everything about about him. Oh my dear cousin. You don't know what trouble is. After the tragic final meal margaret took her daughter virginia nia her cook eliza williams and milt elliott on an expedition through the mountains elisa turned back early intimidated by the a steep mountain climb looming ahead of them at the same time. The remnants of the forlorn hope were growing hungry. J foss dick lagged even further behind the others. If he didn't get food soon they realized he would almost certainly die. William eddie and mary and graves went out ahead of the other six hoping they would find some animals to hunt now that the snow was behind them hours later. Eddie and marianne were delighted to find deer tracks in the cold earth. They followed these until they found the animal that made them. The deer was only about eighty yards ahead of them. Eddie raise the rifle. The gun wavered drop to his side. He he was too weak to aim the heavy weapon but with marianne encouragement he lifted the rifle again this time aiming slightly above the deer here so that his tired arm's would drop the rifle to the proper elevation when he pulled the trigger with this in mind he squeezed and prayed the the weapon fired and the deer left in response it bounded off wounded but still alive eddie and marianne ran after it dropping the useless rifle moments later they caught up with the crippled animal eddie slit throat. They were so famished they they drank the fresh blood gushed from the animal's neck behind them. Jay had collapsed from exhaustion when he heard the shot <music> hurry it pike amanda mccutchen william and sarah foster ran forward to catch up with their hunting party but j and sarah fayza remained behind they couldn't even stand as the day turned into night he lay on the forest floor his breathing growing shallower shallower at around midnight. He died the next morning january sixth sarah stood and follow the others. Yeah she encountered the fosters and her sister marianne who had doubled back to find her when they found out jay had died. The fosters asked asked sarah if they could eat him. Sarah replied distantly you cannot hurt him now and walked on ahead the seven remaining members of the forlorn hope gathered by the fire that night sarah eight what remained of the deer and the others eight what remained of her husband uh the next morning they set off again their strength momentarily returned the seven of them five women to men were a sorry sight by at this point their clothing has been worn ragged and barely hung together exposing their skeletal frames. Their shoes were long gone and they walked barefoot. Through the undergrowth on january eighth milt elliott margaret virginia read stumbled back into the lake camp camp. The snow was too high to make any progress up the mountainside. Things were grim back on truckee. Lake families were growing weaker. Doc patrick breen described how snowbanks made life increasingly difficult for them quote snow higher than the shanti. It must be thirteen. Eighteen feet deep cannot get would this morning. It is a dreadful site for us to look upon between the camps at truckee leg and alder creek six members of the company had died and the threat of starvation loomed constantly over those who still lived they were running out of ox hides leads to eat and bedbugs ravage them whenever they tried to sleep. The stranded families were running out of time their only hope of rescue was was the seven emaciated men and women trudging. They're way above the american river by some accounts. William foster was becoming deranged as the forlorn hope soldiered on according to eddie foster approached him privately and proposed killing amanda mccutchen shen for food eddie protested pointing out that mccutchen was a mother foster then proposed killing sarah vase dick and marianne on both of whom were childless eddie rejected this idea vehemently soon after they started to see bloody footprints in the bird head of them following them they discovered luis and salvador the to native american me walk guides who had abandoned them several days prior according to john sutter's version of events the to me walks were gathering acorns by a small stream. Some others claim they were merely lying by the stream dream rusting they had been living on nuts roots or grubs for the last several weeks having refused to eat human flesh. They were even more emaciated than their former companions. The seven white men and women walked past luis and salvador continuing up the trail. Then and foster took the rifle from eddie and walked back the survivors heard two gunshots backed by the creek one following the other her after the deed was done. The group headed back to where the me walks lay. They stripped the flesh from their bones. They dried what they could. An an eight the organs the next day it started raining. The seven survivors soldiered on leaving the bones and severed heads of louise's lease and salvador behind them some days later. No one knows precisely how long they saw their first sign of civilization. A a native american village the minute tribe were astonished to see seven skeletal figures stagger toward their village pleading for help their children cried in horror and hid there is from these ghastly creatures led the seven survivors into their huts and serve them cakes hoax made from acorn mush despite the welcome sustenance some in the party found the acorn food inedible william etty he wound up brewing tea from fresh grass instead but the others managed to swallow enough food to keep themselves going naidoo guides led them westward s. word from village to village following their own trails. They had almost reached the edges of the sacramento valley. When most of their group found themselves unable to walk at all on january seventeenth saraf ause dick found herself unable to continue like the others her feet were swollen roland bleeding she had developed bleeding gums from scurvy yellowed skin from jaundice and intestinal bleeding her body had reached its absolute limit unable to go any further. Sarah sat down by the trail. Maryanne sarah foster william foster sir and harriet pike joined her. They did not have the strength to take another step and could not even make camp. The six of them were ready to die but william etty kept going bribing his. I do guide with the last of his tobacco. The guy took it and began carrying carrying eddie on the afternoon of january seventeenth eddie and his mighty guide reached a ranch owned by a man named william johnson johnson one of johnson's house guests the fifteen year old harriet richie spotted the two figures coming up from the bear river toward the cabins eddie. He was unable to walk forcing his mind. Do guy to carry him to richie's is he barely looked human when he got up to the door where he looked up into her eyes and said in a voice only a little louder than a whisper bread they took eddie inside and fed him when he told them his companions just up the road they gathered all the food they could and followed eddie's bloody footprints back up the trail to where his companions lay they found them at around midnight so famished they could not even sit up their digestive systems had shrunk so much that even modest portions made them wretch still they begged for more on the morning of january eighteenth eighteenth. All seven survivors were brought back to johnson's ranch where they were given food fresh clothing and blankets as these wretched travelers colors eight they slowly recovered their ability to speak finally they were able to tell the johnsons about their families still trapped by truckee lake the forlorn hope may have successfully reached civilization but there were still almost sixty people trapped in the snow to the east and like the forlorn hope those desperate starving men and women were beginning to look at their neighbors with hungry hungary is thanks for listening to survival next week. The survivors of the forlorn hope and james read attempt to rally rescue parties to save their friends and families. You can find all episodes of survival revival and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Not only the spotify already have all your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all your favorite podcast originals like survival for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream survival on spotify. Just open the app tap browse and type survival in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and instagram podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you next time. Survival was created by max cutler is it production of cutler media and his part of the podcast network. It's produced produced by maxon ron cutler sound designed by andy weights with production assistance by ron shapiro and paul molitor additional production assistance by maggie. Admire and freddie beckley in this episode of survival is written by robert team stra and stars irma blanco tim johnson if you haven't listened yet be sure to check out the podcast original natural disasters it tells the stories of the earth's worst catastrophes acts of nature took countless lives destroyed communities and toppled civilizations pins. We like to think we're prepared for a catastrophe but time and time again mother nature proves us wrong follow natural disasters for free on spotify edify and anywhere you listen to podcasts.

eleanor eddie eddie franklin graves luis truckee lake eddie foster George donner William foster salvador william foster stanton alder creek Margaret reid Doc patrick breen sutter Patrick dolan spotify donner party Marianne graves william etty california
Best of 2019: The Donner Party Pt. 2

Survival

51:32 min | 10 months ago

Best of 2019: The Donner Party Pt. 2

"The following episode contains descriptions of starvation murder and cannibalism that some listeners may find offensive listener discretion is advised especially for children under under thirteen November fourteenth. Eighteen forty six. The snow was deeper than any William Eddie he had ever experienced the mere act of walking through. It was exhausting. Eddie held the rifle close to his chest he he hoped he could find something worth hunting in these barren woods so far it had been slim pickings a Fox here an owl there. Uh nothing substantial enough to revive his family strength Eddie stopped just ahead of him. A grizzly bear was rooting getting through the snow. He couldn't believe his luck. Most bears had gone into hibernation by now he raised the rifle and leveled the at the big furry back the bear was at the very limits of his range. Even if he hit the lead ball wouldn't didn't do much more than anger it almost unconsciously Eddie pop despair bullet into his mouth ready to load the moment he fired tired. I shot glanced off the bears back and the creature wheeled on him Eddie ducked behind a tree hurriedly hurriedly reloading the weapon he could hear it charging toward him through the snow. He poured more powder into the rifle and rammed the second ball down down the barrel as the bear rounded the tree. Eddie fired his second shot right into its chest at point blank. Range Eddie Eddie. Cast aside the rifle and picked up a large stick off the ground wasting no time. He started beating the bear about the head with it to ensure sure it was dead satisfied. Eddie picked up his weapon and began to drag them massive carcass back to camp for a while. While at least this little victory would keep his friends and family alive. Welcome to survival a podcast original. I'm your host Irma Blanco. And I'm Tim Johnson every Monday. We'll take you inside. Tide incredible true stories of life or death situations you can find episodes of survival and all other podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever ever you listen to podcasts to stream survival for free on spotify just open the APP tap browse and type survival into the search bar at par cast. We're we're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast our cast network. And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review wherever you are listening. It really does help. This is our second episode on the Donner Party. A group of California bound emigrants who got trapped on the eastern side of the Sierra Nevada mountains during the winter of eighteen forty a six unable to pass over the mountains in the snow they set up two camps one by Truckee Lake and another by Alder Creek with with only a meagre group of cattle and oxen left. They knew that if they didn't get out of the Canyon soon they would all starve to death in May of eighteen forty six. The Donner Reed Party. Set Out West spurned by ambitions of manifest destiny and a shared dream of settling in California. They're leaders George. Donner and James read followed a guidebook written by Lansford Hastings entitled the Emigrants Guide to Oregon and California Hastings described a shortcut which he claimed named would've saved them around four hundred miles compared to the usual route to California ignoring warnings against taking the untested route read Eidan Donner tried their luck at this shortcut in the end it proved to be a treacherous and poorly thought out route. By the time they rejoined the proper oppor emigrant trail in September eighteen forty six. They had lost a month. Backtracking and delays shortly afterward James read aid quarrelled with and killed another man which caused him to be banished from the group he set off towards California with a single companion hoping to rejoin his family. Once they got there. James Reid and Walter Herron had a very rough time getting through the mountains. They ran out out of food early on and on more than one occasion. Herron suggested shooting and eating reads horse. glaucous read refused to consider This idea on October twenty eighth. The two starved and exhausted. Men stumbled into Sutter's Fort in California as soon as they arrived left. It started raining heavily that night they were reunited with William Big Bill. mccutcheon a member of the Donner Party. who had gone ahead a month earlier for supplies before falling too ill to leave? Also at Sutter's Fort was Edwin Bryant a former traveling companion of his who had sent letters warning. The Donner Party not to take hastings cutoff as they sat down over dinner. Bryant informed. Read that while they were on the road. President James This K- poke had declared war on Mexico. The sparsely populated territory of California was on the verge of becoming an American colony but Mexico wasn't going to give it up so easily a local. US Army Commander and former explorer. John Fremont was looking for volunteers. Take California for the United States due to his military background. Read was offered a captain's post in one of the volunteer regiments though he longed to do his duty. As an American citizen read refused the commission the lack of news from his family troubled him most other settlers. I had reached Sutter's fort by now if the Donner Party was delayed any longer. He feared they'd be snowed in. He told the army recruiters that he had to rescue his family. I but agreed to serve as a lieutenant in the war upon his return as read was recovering in Sutter's fort. His former travelling companions nations were experiencing the worst winter of their lives. The Donner Party had been split up into two camps. The larger camp was at Truckee Lake. Where fifty nine individuals were? Hunkered down in four cabins Margaret Reid. who had been looking after their family since her husband in James exile had moved into a cabin with the graves family? The green family had a cabin of their own. As well. As the Murphys and the keys. Burg's the smaller families. Such as William Eddie and his wife moved in wherever they could find extra room five miles to the northeast. Another group of twenty two men women and children had made camp along Alder Creek among them. Were George Donner along with his wife. Children and brother Jacob Jacob due to what seemed like a minor hand injury. George had not managed to complete their log cabins before the snowfall became too heavy to work gin and had been forced to take shelter in three hastily constructed canvas tents. Both camps were set up by the evening of November third win when a massive storm descended on the SIERRAS. It snowed for eight days straight as they hid from the snowfall. The immigrants migrants faced some difficult decisions each family that's still had livestock particularly the Breen's and the grazes who had half a dozen oxen each face. The question of whether they should butcher their whole heard right away or try and work through them one at a time to prevent the meat from spoiling failing to complicate the matter. The heads of the less lucky families like Margaret. Reid and William Eddy attempted to buy oxen from their neighbors. The reeds could afford to buy two oxen from both the brains and the graves. But Eddie didn't have as much money to spare. He wound up purchasing the the starved corpse of an ox off Franklin graves for twenty five dollars once the livestock had been distributed. They set about slaughtering most of with them slaughtering. The oxen was cumbersome work. The immigrants either had to shoot them which risk the bullet ricocheting off the animal's skull or or hold them by the horns as someone with their throat. Once the livestock were dead they had to be butchered and stored keeping the meat from rotting. Being wasn't difficult they simply buried the fresh cuts and the snow banks. Under the circumstances they used every part of the oxen. They could feeding whatever meager awful. They have left to the dogs. As the Donner Party was butchering their animals and preparing to settle down in early November. James Reid need had finally recovered enough of his energy to leave Sutter's Fort Determined to rejoin his family. He turned back east and made for the SIERRAS. He was accompanied by big bill mccutchen. Who was finally free of his illness and determined to rejoin his wife? Amanda and daughter. Harriet John John Sutter had helpfully provided them with thirty horses. A mule plenty of flour and a large cut of beef for their journey. To more of Sutter's native American me walk. Employees came with them to manage the horses. They faced heavy rain and sleet as they went three days into their trek. The snow had risen by over two feet. It became increasingly difficult to soldier. Onward as the temperature Richard dropped the me walks abandoned them leaving reed and mccutchen to managed thirty horses on their own overwhelmed. They released all but nine of the horses an attempted to forge ahead through the snow on their way they encountered a tent containing to near starving starving settlers who read referred to in his journal. As Mr and Mrs Curtis in return for some flour and beef Mr Curtis offered Reed. You'd mccutchen some of the meal. They had been cooking when the men arrived a piece of their family dog. The weather became exceedingly harsh as reed and mccutchen continued to fight their way east climbing uphill through nine feet of snow dragging nine horses behind them. Reed and mccutchen grew grew exhausted one day after leaving the Curtis's shelter. They finally conceded that the weather was too strong for the both of them as the snowfall. Intensified the men turned back West. They couldn't have known it but they may have been only ten or twelve miles from reaching their families. someways at Truckee Lake. When he returned to Sutter's fort read described their aborted mission to John? Sutter Sutter told him that there were not enough able bodied men to form a suitable relief party to help them. Due to the ongoing war with Mexico sutter then asked read how much livestock the rest of the party had with them. Read later. Wrote Sutter made an estimate and stated that if the immigrants would kill the cattle and Dan Place the meat in the snow for preservation. There was no fear of starvation until relief could reach them reassured. Read road out to San Francisco where his post in the Mexican. American war awaited if the war ended soon maybe able to gather the rescue party he needed as James Read Road West. His wife Margaret prepared to hunker down for the winter and wait for rescue in the Truckee Lake Camp. She could could not risk bringing her children out into the cold but not all of the settlers had given up hope of escape. The fifty seven year old Franklin Franklin graves had no intention of getting stuck there all winter. They had no reason to expect a rescue party so they had to get help themselves. The day the snow stopped on November twelfth. He said about rallying hardy to scale the mountain later that day Franklin raves set off for the mountain with twelve to fifteen individuals. All men save. For Franklin's two daughters. They were guided by Charles Stanton and the to me walks Luis and Salvador. The expedition was doomed from the start. When the team reached the west end of Truckee Lake they encountered banks of snow? Rising almost ten feet high every step sank deep into the snow making forging forward exhausting acting and inefficient soon. They could go no further frustrated. They turned back when Franklin arrived back at Truckee Lake and midnight midnight. He had no intention of admitting defeat he only needed to look at the meagre food stores to no. They wouldn't last the winter. During during the eight days of snowfall. The families had worked their way through almost all of the meet the cattle and oxen had provided them. Some men had attempted to fish in Truckee Lake but had little success eventually. The river had frozen to solid to break through the ice. William Eddie borrowed a rifle from from William Foster and set about hunting for the group. He was a talented marksman. But there were very few animals to be found in the surrounding wilderness on November Fourteenth Eddy and foster surprise the camp by dragging a grizzly bear carcass in from the surrounding mountainside they butchered it and distributed. The meat between the families female grizzly bears can weigh up to four hundred pounds and males can weigh up to six hundred but even even six hundred pounds of meat wouldn't go far when divided between eighty one hungry people within days. The grizzly carcass had been picked clean seen on November twenty first Franklin graves. Group made another attempt at scaling. The mountain two days later they returned and defeated another heavy snowfall hit on November twenty sixth preempting another escape attempt but Franklin graves was still determined to to break free of their mountainous prison. He had grown up in Vermont so he was used inhospitable winters. He said about making snowshoes. Enlisting the help help of Charles Stanton and William Foster Stanton and foster didn't know how to make snow shoes but they could help him gather the necessary materials over the the next few days. They hunted through the snow gathering. The wooden ox bows from the yoke of their fallen cattle. The Bose formed the frames of these snow shoes. Wile Franklin's daughter Sara caustic in Marianne graves cut strips of rawhide to weave in between the frames. foraging for snowshoe materials. Israel's thoroughly occupied many of the settlers as December began on December Ninth Charleston. wrote a note to the Donner family. The the storm prevented us from getting over the mountains. We are now getting snow shoes ready to go on foot. I should like to get your pocket. Compass as the snow is so so very deep and in the event of storm it would be invaluable the mules are all straight off. If any should come round your camp let some of our company no it the first opportunity. He received no reply from the Donner camp. But by this point Franklin graves had made enough snow shoes for a reasonably sized foray into the mountain they would have to go with or without the donners help. Franklin went from cabin to cabin gathering able bodied men and women for a final desperate attempt to break through the Sierra Nevada. By the morning of December sixteenth he had gathered sixteen willing volunteers. They only had fourteen sets of snowshoes between them but it would have to do. It was better better to have as many helping hands as possible. This was their last hope had surviving the winter when we return and Franklin graves leads a seemingly suicidal attempt to escape their winter in prison. Now back to the story. By December Sixteenth Franklin Graves had found sixteen individuals to follow him out of the valley in all the party numbered. Ten men five live women and two boys. This included Franklin graves his son-in-law and two eldest daughters William Etty William Foster the Irish Bachelor. Patrick Dolan an a Mexican cattle Han named Antonio they were guided by the three men who had been through the past before Charles Stanton and the to native Americans Luis and Salvador for food. The group brought a few strips of dried beef. Eddie still had foster's rifle and was ready to hunt to ensure they'd have the strength to keep going. The SNOWSHOE party would later be dubbed the forlorn or Lorne hope by historians this term most often refers to a detachment of soldiers leading an offensive with the expectation of high casualties casualties. It was sunny the day. The forlorn hope set off from the Lake Camp. The snow was thick but Franklin graves. snowshoes were effective active in keeping the group from sinking into it. Halfway across truckee lake two of them turned around Charles Burger and ten year. Old William Murphy. Feet didn't have snowshoes and realized they couldn't keep pace with the others on the second day December seventeenth. They reached the east face. Ace of the pass. Luis and Salvador led the Party with the women directly behind them and the men bringing up the rear around midday they reach the mountain wall and started the arduous climb. The snow grew deeper as they ascended. Even with graves snowshoes shoes. They sank into the snow with every step. The Bright Sun reflected off the snow in front of them forcing them to squint. As they went there there is began to speak with the early signs of snow-blindness. Everyone in the party had started their journey and good health but a month of rationed food food had taken a dramatic toll on their stamina. The Thin Mountain Air Force the party to take frequent stops to rest the members. The forlorn hope had dressed themselves. Well when they set off and managed to stay remarkably dry during their first ascent on December seventeenth however however by protecting themselves against hypothermia. They put themselves at risk for another equally deadly enemy hyperthermia. Because of their heavy winter clothing. They were just as likely to overheat as to freeze during the strenuous. Climb all fifteen remaining members of the forlorn hope reached the top of the pass by late afternoon exhausted they set up camp for the night Snowfall was intermittent as they made their way across. The Sierra Nevada. Over the next couple of days Charles Stanton fell further and further behind mind often stumbling into camp hours after the others the group was growing concerned as Charles was the only one of them who had crossed the mountains in in both directions. If they lost him they would have to rely on the two native Americans for guidance and they did not speak much English to make matters worse. I Stanton was starting to suffer from snow blindness making it harder and harder for him to follow. The footsteps of the others on the morning of December Twentieth Stanton didn't bother rising from their makeshift campground as the others prepared to leave. Mary and graves saw him sitting nearby calmly puffing on his pipe she approached him and asked if he was coming with them yes he replied. I am coming soon. mm-hmm Marianne set off the others. Leaving Stanton to follow at his own pace stanton never caught up with them as the snowshoe group made their way along. The Sierra Nevada Patrick Breen continued his his daily Journal back by the Lake News. Travelled slowly between Truckee Lake and the Donner Families Camp Alder Creek. Milt Elliott had left for the donners honors several days ago to check on them and Breen hadn't heard a single word from him since when he arrived at the donners. Camp Milt made a gruesome awesome discovery. Jacob Donner was dead. He had never shaken the horrible feeling of hopelessness as the snow had set in. He ignored his family's attempts to feed him one day he had gone to the table in the center of his tent bowed his head as if in prayer and sat still until he died Elisa. Donner would later write of her uncle. Not even the needs of his family could rouse him to action. He was utterly dejected and made no effort but tranquility a weighted him in death. The family was shaken shaken by this tragedy. George Donner most of all. He watched as his able bodied family. Members dragged his brother's body out of the tent into the snow unable to assist them due to his hand injury which had become infected at around the same time. A group of three single men Dan living nearby died of starvation. As he lay weekly on the floor of his cabin. Joseph Reinhardt call to Doris wolfing a woman men who had been widowed earlier in the journey when she came over he confessed to the murder of her husband during their desert trek. A crime he had blamed on the raiders. Then finally free of his guilt he died as the Alder Creek camp coped with their losses. The forlorn hope were struck by a powerful blizzard. The fourteen remaining men and women. It could barely see anything in front of them without Stanton. They relied exclusively on Luis and Salvador to guide them but the to me walks were unable to make out any landmarks through the white curtains surrounding the group. They argued amongst themselves bringing the journey to a halt they. They were almost out of food and had no idea which direction was west. The foot and hoof prints they had been following up until this point had vanished banished beneath the snow some argued they should return to their families. Marianne graves vehemently opposed. This saying she would rather die hi than watch. Her brother and sister starved to death at the lake. Eventually the group had no choice but to press on that same afternoon without any tracks to guide them. They made a tragic mistake. A low ridge rose above them fearing it led only higher into the mountains tunes they skirted it to the left and went downhill. If they had climbed this ridge they would have found themselves back on the established emigrant road road and well on their way to sutter's fort by following the deceptive path downhill. They lead themselves into yet another canyon in a funnel for the blizzard. They were caught in starvations struck. The forlorn hope on the night of of December twenty first that night as his companions went without food. William Eddie found parcel among his supplies. It was a half is pound of bear meat with a note from his wife. Simply saying your own dear eleanor. This morsel kept Eddie going a tangible reminder of the the wife and child he left by the lake but by the morning of December twenty third. The party was completely out of food. Hunger and exhaustion Austin weighed on them as they marched with increasing clumsiness downhill their strength flagged all of them sweating and freezing at the the same time. A horrible discussion began with no end in sight. How would they sustain themselves for the rest of their journey? To Sutter's Fort hungered nod at them all and as far as they knew they were the only hope for their family and friends stuck at the lake. If none of them lived moved through the journey everyone would die. Patrick Dolan finally spoke up. The men should cast lots and whoever lost would sacrifice himself to provide meat for the others. The group fiercely debated this morbid suggestion ingestion while they all found the idea horrifying. They slowly resign themselves to it's grim practicality they were starving and had no reason to expect another food source to appear. They tore off five strips of paper one for each of the men in the party besides besides Luis and Salvador who had not been part of the discussion the fifth strip was longer than the others and would indicate which of the men would be killed killed. The men drew one by one when they compared the fatal long strip was in the hands of Patrick Dolan the same man who had suggested the idea in the first place but before he could process what had just happened. The other men surrounded rounded Dolan preventing him from running an unspoken question passed between them. Who would be the executioner after interminable moment of staring at each other the men realized murder was still murder they could not kill one of their own for for food turning back to the path Eddie? Grimly pointed out one of them was going to die soon. Anyway on the morning of Christmas Eve the forlorn hope was struck with an intensely cold rain soaking through their threadbare clothing. With with some difficulty they built a smoky fire in a snowbank beneath some trees once they succeeded they realized the fire had been built over a snowy stream. The fire melted through the snow. It's embers plummeting into the river below where they had built the fire. There was now just a hole in the ice looking down into freezing waters. It only grew colder as the day wore on I.. Dusk Franklin graves as was shaking heavily. Both Patrick Dolan and the twelve year old lemieux will murphy had started crying out. In despair. Most likely suffering from a unique unique blend of shock hypothermia and desperate gnawing hunger that night they managed to build another fire with cotton. I'm from Harriet. Pike's cloak and sparks from the flint. Lock Rifle Eddie carried. It was a welcome sight. Antonio the Mexican cattle jover crawled over to the firepit and lay down in its warmth. A few hours later his hand fell into the firepit and he did not remove. It was passed caring later that night. Franklin Graves Stop Shivering. His breathing gradually becoming more shallow. Eddie told him that he was dying. Franklin didn't seem to care he called Saraf Rafah's Dick and Mary and graves over to his side. The two women tried to rub warmth into his limbs but he made no effort to assist them. Franklin told his two daughters that the life of the rest of their family depended on their survival. He told them to do whatever they had to do. Due to survive and instructed them to eat his corpse once he died by eleven pm on Christmas Eve Franklin Graves Saves was dead the fire had gone out and it seemed like the twelve remaining settlers. Were going to freeze to death if they didn't do something soon. William Eddie had an idea an old frontier trick. He had just remembered he suggested everyone lie in a circle with their feet toward toward the middle. Then he would completely cover them with their blankets forming a small low tent. This method trap the body heat of the party under the blankets warming them and protecting them from the snow. The group agreed an Eddie set about erecting this low tents. They all huddled in the circle temporarily safe from the harsh wins but with this temporary relief from the cold came a greater awareness of their collective hunger. Franklin Glenn Graves is final words hung over the forlorn hope ominously a promise of relief that they could not ignore forever when they awoke at Sunrise on Christmas. Day Patrick Dolan was gibbering. Madly he started to thrash and yell and suddenly he tried to crawl out into the blizzard. Eddie attempted to wrestle him back under the blankets but Dolan slipped free crawling out of the shelter as he went. He began stripping his clothes off and charging off. into the Cold half-naked Dolan is an early example example of what forensic pathologists call paradoxical undressing during the early stages of hypothermia blood vessels shut off to conserve warmth warmth in the core of the body causing numbness in all extremities in the final stages of hypothermia the vessels opened back up causing an intense feeling feeling of heat to course throughout the body even as the victim freezes no doubt Dolan had just reached this stage of hypothermia finally Dolan returned to the rest of the group and slid back under the coverlet S- he was dead by late afternoon. Their campsite became known As the camp of death here before Lauren hope spent Christmas Day starving. While the bodies of their companions lay nearby Christmas Day for the Truckee Lake camp was a gloomy affair for the last few days. Margaret Reid had been serving her children during a glue like brew made from Boiled Ox. Hides it was nutritious enough to keep them going but tasted horrible. Christmas must dinner in the read. Half of the cabin was a surprise for all of the children. Margaret had been saving a few dried apples a tea cup full of white beans. It's a little bit of rice to square inches of Bacon and some tripe leftover from the slaughtered oxen. It wasn't much but compared to the boiled ox hides they had been eating. It was a veritable feast in the Brain Kevin. The exhausted Patrick Breen recorded extremely difficult to find would would uttered our prayers to God this Christmas morning. The prospect is appalling but we trust in him in their cabin. Been Levine Murphy and Eleanor Eddie boiled bones for broth and wants. The Broth was served. They boil the bones again and again until they were soft enough off to be eaten whole five miles to the northeast at Alder Creek. The donners eight bones for Christmas dinner as well George Donner or did very little to help his family on Christmas. The infection from his cut hand had spread halfway up his right arm. The man who had been elected did to lead the wagon train was now virtually an invalid back in the camp of death. The men dragged Patrick. Dolan's body over to where they had laid the frozen remains of Franklin graves and Antonio though they did not speak openly about it the the remaining members of the forlorn hope had decided what they were GonNa do about their starvation. They had come to the unconscious agreement that they would have to eat their deceased companions on December twenty sixth growing mad with hunger the twelve year. Old lyme you'll murphy thrashed wildly really attempting to escape the tent. He grabbed at the other's arms and bid at them crying. Give me my bone. Due to his size he was easily restrained. The others forced him into the center of the tent between their feet. His Sister Sarah Foster held his head in her lap throughout the night. Trying to comfort him. mm-hmm at around two A M Leme. You'll murphy stopped breathing. They dragged him out of the tent and set him by the other three bodies. There were now only ten members of the forlorn hope left when we return. The forlorn hope finally makes use of their new food supply now back to the story December twenty seventh eighteen eighteen forty six eleven days after they set off to bring back help. The forlorn hope was down to ten individuals. Five men and Five Live Women Their Guide Charles Stanton had been lost in the snow for others. Patrick Dolan Antonio Leme you'll murphy and their leader. Franklin graves had died in the last three days by the time the Sun rose that morning most of the survivors were ready to to eat the dead. I they had to start a fire. William Eddie set out using another old woodsmen trick to get the fire lit. He poured some black powder onto the tender with hopes that he could force the damp wood to ignite the gunpowder ignited. More strongly than Eddie. The expected burning his face and hands finally after gathering enough dry tinder. They were able to get a proper fire going thing when they realized what they're white companions were planning on doing. Luis and Salvador moved away from the camp and made their own fire fire. The practice of cannibalism was unspeakably disgusting to them. When the native Americans turned their backs on them the three men Jay Foss? Dick William Eddie and William Foster said about butchering the four bodies. There was not much meat to be found on the starve five corpses but that did not deter the hungry survivors the agency separate groups so that no one would have to eat their family or watch. Someone eat their family. An alarming fact cast this gruesome meal into a different light. They only gone six days without food. This raises the question. Why were they so quick to turn to cannibalism when they possibly had weeks before they were in danger of starvation? The answer is two-fold first. They were burning calories at an alarming rate while trudging through the snow with the constant hunger and exhaustion. It certainly must have felt like they were starving to death and second they likely didn't know it was hypothermia not starvation that killed their five companions opinions after their initial meal. They had to make sure that the rest of the meat was portable and wouldn't go bad as they continued making their way eight towards California so they cut the remaining pieces of their companions into thin strips and stretch them beside the fire close enough to dry dry but not close enough to cook it was a pain staking process that they worked out for two days. They were ready to travel again on the morning. Of December twenty ninth. They loaded the dried meat into their packs strapped on their snowshoes and resume their journey they calculated they had about L. Four days worth of human meat in their packs on the morning of January first the surviving members of the forlorn hope made it out of the valley that had trapped them even as they escape the snow. They did not feel like rejoicing. Their stores of meat were once again diminished. Some of them resorted to eating strips of rawhide that held their snow shoes together. Jay Pasig had been lagging behind the rest of them. His energy flagging from the unrelenting pace Eddie fell in step beside him encouraging him to keep going that evening over the campfire. Campfire William Foster suggested they kill Luis and Salvador for food. The native Americans were growing weaker by the day. Refusing to the dead. Eating to me. Walks would be preferable to waiting for Jay to starve or for one of the women to collapse. Eddie argued against is this and after a tense discussion. The group fell into silence when they awoke the next morning. Both Luis and Salvador were gone on. It was suspected that Eddie warned them that they were in danger. But it's just as possible that they read the body language of their white companions and fled at this same time. Many of the party trapped in the lake. Camp were growing desperate on January fourth Margaret read prepared appeared to make her own trip through the mountains before she left. They ate cash. The last of the Read Family Dogs Virginia read later wrote her cousin Mary about this traumatic incident. We had to kill little cash the dog and eat him we ate his head and and feet and Hyde and everything about him. Oh my dear cousin. You don't know what trouble is after the tragic final meal. Oh Margaret took her daughter. Virginia her Cook Eliza Williams and milt Elliott on an expedition through the mountains. Elisa turned and back early intimidated by Steep Mountain. Climb looming ahead of them at the same time. The remnants of the Forlorn Lorne Hope. We're growing hungry. J Foss Dick lagged even further behind the others. If he didn't get food soon they realized he would almost certainly die. William Eddie and Mary and graves went out ahead of the other six hoping they would find some animals to hunt now. The snow was behind them. Hours later Eddie. And Marianne were delighted to find deer tracks in the cold earth. They followed these until they found the animal that made them. The deer was only about eighty yards ahead of them. Eddie raise the rifle. The gun wavered didn't drop to his side. He was too weak to aim the heavy weapon but with Marianne encouragement he lifted the rifle again. This time aiming slightly above the deer so that his tired arm's would drop the rifle to the proper elevation when he pulled the trigger with this in mind. He squeezed leased and prayed the weapon fired and the deer left in response. It bounded off wounded but still alive Eddie Eddie and Marianne ran after it dropping the useless rifle moments later. They caught up with the crippled animal. Eddie slit its throat. And they were so famished that they drank the fresh blood gushed from the animal's neck behind them. Jay had collapsed from exhaustion when he heard the shot. Harriet Pike. Amanda mccutchen William and Sarah Foster ran forward to catch up with their hunting party but J and Surro- foster remained behind Jay. Couldn't even stand as the day turned into night. He lay on the forest floor. His his breathing growing shallower and shallower at around midnight. He died the next morning January. Sixth Sarah Chris stood and follow the others. She encountered the fosters and her sister Marianne who had doubled back to find her when they found out. Jay Okay had died. The fosters asked Sarah if they could eat him. Sarah replied distantly. You cannot hurt him now and walked on ahead. The seven remaining members of the forlorn hope gathered by the fire that night Sarah eight what remained of the deer and the others eight. What remained of her husband? The next morning they set off again their strength momentarily returned the seven of them. Five women and two men were a sorry sight by this point. Their clothing had been worn ragged and barely hung together exposing their skeletal frames. Their shoes news were long gone and they walked barefoot through the undergrowth on January. Eighth Milt Elliott Margaret in Virginia. Read need stumbled back into the lake camp. The snow was too high to make any progress up. The mountainside things were grim back on truckee lake. Nick families were growing weaker. Patrick Breen described how the snowbanks made life increasingly difficult for them. Quote snow higher the Shanti. It must be thirteen feet. Deep cannot get would this morning. It is a dreadful site for us to look upon between the camps Hamster truckee leg and Alder Creek. Six members of the company had died and the threat of starvation loomed constantly over those who still lived lived. They were running out of oxides to eat and bedbugs ravaged them whenever they tried to sleep. The stranded families were running out of time name. Their only hope of rescue was the seven emaciated. Men and women trudging. They're way above the American river by some some accounts. William Foster was becoming deranged as the forlorn hope soldiered. On according to Eddie Foster approached him privately and and proposed killing. Amanda Cussin' for Food Eddie protested pointing out that mccutchen was a mother foster then proposed killing Sarah fantastic and Marianne both of whom were childless. Eddie rejected this idea vehemently soon after they started started to see bloody footprints in the dirt ahead of them following them. They discovered Luis and Salvador. The to native American Me Walk Guides who had abandoned handed them several days prior according to John Sutter's version of events. The too many walks were gathering acorns by a small stream. Some mother's claim they were merely lying by stream resting they had been living on nuts roots or grubs for the last several weeks. Having refused to eat human flesh they were even more emaciated than their former companions. The seven white men and women walked past Luis and Salvador continuing continuing up the trail. Then foster took the rifle from Eddie and walked back. The survivors heard two gunshots backed by the a creek one following the other after the deed was done. The group headed back to where the Milwaukee lay they stripped the flesh from their bones and they dried what they could and ate the organs. The next day it started raining the seven survivors soldiered on leaving leaving the bones and severed heads of Luis and Salvador behind them. Some days later no one knows precisely how long they saw their first. I sign of civilisation a native American village. The my do tribe were astonished to see. Seven skeletal figures stagger toward their village pleading for help their children cried in horror and hid there is from these ghastly creatures. The My do led the seven survivors into their huts and serve them. Cakes made from Acorn Mush. Despite the welcome sustenance some in the party found the ACORN food. Food inedible William. Etty wound up brewing tea from fresh grass instead but the others manage to swallow enough food to keep themselves going. My do guides led them westward. From village to village following their own trails they had almost reached the edges of the Sacramento Valley. When most of their group found themselves unable to walk at all on January Seventeenth Saraf ause? Dick found herself unable to continue like the others. Her feet were swollen and bleeding. She had developed bleeding. Gums from scurvy yellowed skin from jaundice and intestinal bleeding pick. Her body had reached its absolute limit unable to go any further. Sarah sat down by the trail. Maryanne Sarah Foster William foster and Harriet. Pike joined her they did not have the strength to take another step and could not even make camp the six of them were ready to die. But William Etty kept going bribing his my do guide with the last of his tobacco. The guide took it and began carrying Eddie. On the afternoon of January Seventeen Eddie and his mighty guide reached a ranch shortened by a man named William Johnson. One of Johnson's house guests the fifteen year. Old Harriet Richie spotted the two figures coming up from the bear river toward the cabins. Eddie was unable to walk forcing his mind. Do Guide to carry him to Richie's is he barely looked human when he got up to the door he looked up into her eyes and set in a voice only a little louder than a whisper. Bread they took Eddie inside and fed him when he told them of his companions. Just up the road. They gathered all the food they could and followed. Eddie's bloody the footprints back up the trail to where his companions lay they found them at around midnight so famished they could not even sit up up. Their digestive systems had shrunk so much that even modest portions made them rich still. They begged for more on the morning of January eighteenth. All seven survivors were brought back to Johnson's ranch where they were given food fresh clothing and blankets as these wretched travelers eight. They slowly recovered their ability to speak. Finally they were able to tell the johnsons about their families. Still trapped by Truckee Lake. The forlorn hope may have successfully reached civilization but there were still almost sixty fifty people trapped in the snow to the east and like the forlorn hope those desperate starving men and women were beginning meaning to look at their neighbors with hungry eyes. Thanks thanks for listening to survival. Next week the survivors of the forlorn hope and James read attempt to rally rescue parties to save their friends and families. You can find all episodes of survival and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Not only the spotify already. Have all your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all your favorite podcast originals like survival for free from your phone. Desktop or smart speaker to to stream survival on spotify just opened the APP tap browse and type survival in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and instagram. At podcast asked and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you. Next time survival was created by Max Cutler is a production of cutler media and is part. Part of the podcast network it's produced by Maxon Ron Cutler. Sound designed by Andy Weights with production assistance by Ron Shapiro and Paul Moller additional production assistance by Maggie admire and Freddie Beckley. This episode of survival is written by Robert teamster and stars Irma. Blanco Tim Johnson.

Dick William Eddie Truckee Lake Luis Party William Etty William Foster Sutter George Donner Salvador Milt Elliott Margaret Franklin Franklin Alder Creek Charles Stanton Patrick Breen Patrick Dolan California Marianne graves Donner Party Mexico James Reid
Talkin' with Dr. Howard Donner - Aviation Podcast

The Finer Points - Aviation Podcast

14:06 min | 10 months ago

Talkin' with Dr. Howard Donner - Aviation Podcast

"Inox immature will not know the difference between a saturated hemoglobin molecule that has carbon monoxide attached versus oxygen. Hello Aviators here's looking back to the finer points on this episode of the finer points. We're talking with Dr Don to learn some of the unique ways that he sees her a medical issues. I'm Jason Miller and you're listening to the finer points. The finer points is brought to you in part by forty light. The APP pilots depend on online at four flights DOT COM COM and buy books. visit the twenty headsets. Eight twenty is the choice of military pilots and professional pilots all over the world and ended by the generous support of listeners. Like you three patriots to see video versions of interviews. You're going to hear in this podcast. These come visit P dot com slash. Learn years. So Hope you are all getting ready for an amazing Christmas. It's been such an incredible year and I hope you're all with your family with people that you love. These last two weeks of December are always kind of magical things start to wind down and everybody sort of goes with the people they love and things get quiet it's It's one of my favorite times of the year and it really gets me thinking about people that mean a lot to me and and you know each year we go out and do these adventure flying trips where it's really really a Labor of passion. You know we do three trips. There's so much that goes into getting those trips together and getting them out the door and I've always said you've probably heard me say that one of my biggest joys in all of it is the level of the caliber of instructors that were able to bring to it and that really starts with my partner in the effort. Howard Donner honor? Howard's a medical doctor for those? That don't know he's an expedition physician. He's been featured on Nove. He leads expeditions all over the world sailing. Expeditions conditions He's a river guide. You know what I mean. The list goes on and on and it's amazing to get Howard out there and of course through Howard and his network of friends we get at Peter. Lert people that I know Eric Cope and Ryan Van Heron we just such an amazing caliber of instruction. That's really the value standing around the campfire. Drinking can wine and talking through some of these issues that are sort of live in the back of our mind only now. We've got this company to discuss them in is pretty pretty incredible. I'm so in this podcast. I actually just phoned up Howard. He's up in the mountains. If you're looking for a video version of what you're going to hear it is available to patrons A couple of talking heads but it was a lot of fun onto talk to Howard about some of the ways that he views things like hyperventilation and pulse ox senators and whatnot so I started by asking him about pulse. Ox Senators because I figured that's a piece of equipment. That's in many many pilot fight bags. I think pulse ox. Senators are really important. I carry one of my flight bag. I use one and great tool not Pooh poohing the use of symmetry. But it's really important to know that what a particular pilot will tolerate in terms of oxygen is very different than what might be considered normal in the textbooks and I've seen people get sick with sats in the low ninety S. I've seen people. That are acting very normal with sats in the high seventies. I'm much more interested in how somebody's doing clinically than I am looking at a number. But certainly when you're flying with your friends when people are starting to drop well below ninety percent it's cause for concern but I I would be much happier if I was flying with you and you looked good and felt good and your cognition was normal and that was eighty five. Then your brother other. Do you have a brother. Then your brother who might have sat three points higher than yours. But he's starting to act stupid and his cognition is impaired. So I guess what I'm saying in my normal long winded way as asymmetry is interesting and important but a patient agent or pilots clinical presentation meaning their smartness. Their cognition is more important to me than any particular number. And and I'll also add that. Would I look when I'm flying with people with senators is not just what their absolute number is but what is their baseline at their home. So when I lived in telluride around my house was that almost ten thousand feet and my baseline sat was around ninety percent at home so when I was flying if my sat that drop below ninety I certainly wouldn't make an emergency landing and call an ambulance. It was normal for me to be at ninety so I typically we look and again this is an arbitrary number but I look for people sats to drop more than about ten percent below what their home baseline is. What do you think about Auburn deletion? I look at the questions and it's like okay. Somebody's freaking out. The damage I have in my mind is right and I I am a paper bag. They start breeding knew it presumably even though they're freaking out and then they're fine. Is this a realistic scenario. Does that does a bag fix. It is is a thing for real. Well the good news or the bad news always the bad news. I I gotta end optimistic. Bad News is that I'm not An advocate of paper bag breathing and the reason for that is especially for a non medical person but even for a medical person sometimes in that Situation Association. It's hard to know why. A person is hyperventilating and admittedly in most cases. It's you're probably going to be able to make the diagnosis. Looks like they're having a little bit of a panic attack. Or they're anxious and they're hyperventilating But how do you know. They're not having a pulmonary. Embolism how do you know they're not having an m by a heart attack. You don't know why they're hypotheses and suddenly they're getting short of breath medical term dispe nick and they're breathing like this and you go home. And God they're hyperventilating quote unquote see stick a paper bag over their mouth and they can't get any oxygen the Gen. That's not a good thing so even though it could work and it does work and I have been known to use paper bags so I'm not. Pooh poohing the technique. I I think there are better methods for dealing with hyperventilation in the cockpit and the next thing we got into is actually a question that I got from somebody on instagram. If you're looking for me on instagram grandma learned the finer points. But somebody asked me you know what. Why do the symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning differ from high poxy if carbon monoxide prevents oxygen from bonding to the blood right? What what's the difference? Why are the symptoms different super? Good question and you know. Sometimes if I don't know control say we don't really understand that but truthfully it this is it is poorly understood. It is known that the mechanism of CO poisoning carbon monoxide poisoning is twofold one are the effects of hypocrisy because of the preferential binding of carbon monoxide on the hemoglobin molecule. And I think that's what most students learn and two hundred three hundred times greater affinity for hemoglobin than oxygen. So it's going to preferentially bind those really important oxygen binding sites on the hemoglobin but there are a number of of non hypotheses mechanisms for carbon monoxide poisoning that are poorly understood but it affects non hemoglobin proteins. And not the least important one of those is Maya Globe which can affect brain function it can affect heart function it can affect neurologic function auctioned in general and there are all sorts of cascades including nitrous oxide prostate gland cascades and on and on and on which ultimately cause oxidative stress and inflammatory mediators. And so the bottom line is that there are a whole bunch of oxidative changes and inflammatory processes that occur in conjunction with the hypocrisy and subsequent hypoglycemia bottom line on on carbon monoxide poisoning. Is that there are hypoplastic issues but there are non hypothetic issues news. And it's now known that carbon monoxide binds to non hemoglobin proteins in the body causing all sorts of oxidative and inflammatory Tori changes in the brain in the heart in the muscle and Jason. It's really important to reiterate and I know you know this and my guess is that your viewers know this as well but that if you're using symmetry and a patient I always say patient it's the doctrine me and a pilot is is exhibiting evidence of carbon monoxide poisoning or hypoglycemia you might measure their symmetry in the airplane and say Oh yeah. They've got us at ninety five. So I'm guessing. They don't have carbon monoxide poisoning because carbon monoxide displaces. The oxygen but that's not true INOX senator will not know the difference between a saturated hemoglobin molecule that has carbon monoxide oxide attached versus oxygen. While that's just absolutely fascinating information Howard's wrong actually didn't know that so I'm glad to know it in the last question question. I asked him also came from instagram. And the question was from somebody that lives at high altitude. The question was already acclimated because I live at high altitude and therefore less susceptible to hypoxia. So the simple answer is yes and no The good news is that if you live at high altitude you definitely we have some degree of acclimatization to high altitude. So generally speaking. Certainly statistically you are going to be doing better than in your sea level cohort But the problem is is there such a high degree of variability in how everybody responds to altitude that. It's really hard to say for a specific individual that they're going to be immune to flying at fourteen thousand feet for two hours What I can say if you have time for an anecdote is for example? Well I've worked at a lot of high altitude clinics I remember one clinic. I worked at in the Himalayas in a place. Common Non at twelve thousand feet I lived at twelve thousand isn't fee for almost four months. I felt like a superstar. Trekkers would come in with mountain sickness altitude illness I lived at twelve thousand. I felt great. I would go up up to fifteen thousand feet to rescue from twelve. And that's three thousand foot altitude gain and I would get sick at fifteen thousand so so the bottom line is yes. It helps you to acclimatise to higher altitudes. Yes it's a good thing but it doesn't make you immune to two large changes in altitude any exposure to higher altitude living in Denver or living in Tahoe. And then flying up over the SIERRAS. Yes you are going to be protected to some degree because if your underlying acclimatization but I think it's really important portent for your students and for pilots to understand that simply being well acclimatized at six thousand feet. where I live will not protect to me when we do our mountain flying course and I'm up at twelve thousand feet? I'm just as likely to get sick as not just depending on my own physiology geology aviators. That's all for this episode of the finer points a huge thanks to Howard Donner for coming on the show. It's always interesting to talk to Howard and if you want to spend the weekend with Howard and some of these other extraordinary people have mentioned Registrations for Airplane Camp Twenty twenty are now in so please visit us at learned the finer points dot com also a huge thanks to J. P. I the best engine monitor the leader in engine aircraft data. If you need to retrofit an airplane you have to look at J.P. Engine monitors monitor and in fact. I'm shopping for a plane. And between what I can buy from. GPA and what I can do with four flight. I definitely look for planes. That have kind of nothing empanel. Because I'm not going to pay the premium get something fancy so also pilot protection services and important thing to consider that you can get the backup cup of entire legal team for the price of one flying lesson definitely check them out online. You can add pilot protection services teriipia membership. I WanNa wish you all a happy. The Hanukkah Merry Christmas and a happy new year on a huge. Thanks for all the support that you've shown me here at the finer points. You are the best fans on the Internet. I'm Jason Miller and until the next time be safe flyer best player for having the finer points brought to you in part by four four fight and my boats and by J. Pi and APA pilot protection services and by the generous support of listeners listeners. Like you through Patriot. Girl the sky on the angel on the airwaves wave the afternoon with him

Howard Donner Jason Miller Dr Don expedition physician partner Embolism Himalayas telluride Pooh Situation Association Eric Cope Patriot nitrous oxide Peter Maya Globe senator SIERRAS J.P. Engine
Lake Tahoe, California (or "Our Morbid Obsession with The Donner Party")

The Practical Wanderlust Podcast

51:55 min | 9 months ago

Lake Tahoe, California (or "Our Morbid Obsession with The Donner Party")

"Haven what's up. What's my favorite kind of party? Definitely a tea party. I do love tea parties. Yes but not the answer. I was looking for dance party. I do love dance. Parties also know though Fancy Dinner Dinner Party God you know everything about me. No it has to do with today's episode or give up. It's a Donner Party. Got It because they're talking about Tom. Today Hey is this entire episode is going to be a Donna party reference. Yes Hi Jeremy. where the accident prone travelers behind tactical nonetheless? We're here to dish out travel tips tricks. Bricks useful trivia useless trivia mildly entertaining anecdotes and everything else. You need to avoid making all of our terrible terrible terrible terrible terrible mistakes and we make a lot of mistakes today we are talking about arguably my favorite place on earth and that's Lake Tahoe for that. You are going to home where you live with your wife but wow okay. Tahoe's cool as standby if someone were to make a California bucket list. I think that Tahoe should be on it twice twice twice twice once for winter and once for summer well that makes sense. You know what I always say though. The best time to visit Lake Tahoe is any time other than the winter of eighteen forty saks. We are not a minute in and you've already made a Donner Party joke less and if you think that this entire episode is not actually about my obsession with Donner party you are completely wrong or try to keep uh-huh a dull roar by well. I'm going to do my best. I promise less party jokes. So here's the question. Why why is everybody so obsessed with Lake Tahoe? Like I you know. I didn't grew up in California and it wasn't like I knew about it but I think I always thought of it as like Lake placid like that one movie. You know what I mean. There's just alligators waiting to eat. You didn't know anything about it. So why is it such a thing. Here it's just like this glorious lake in the middle of the Sierra Nevada's you like go over the Ridge and it's just this huge blue water towering behind trees Alpine meadows it's gorgeous. You don't even mentioned the granite. You really take for granted don't you. I Call Dibs on that joke before we started recording. Wording and I'm a little salty about it well should have made it. It is actually. It's a giant lake the largest lake in the US that isn't a great lake and just for the fact checkers out there by volume. Look it up. It's on Wikipedia. We did some deep research. We did very very much research. Yeah and the great thing about Tahoe is that it's it's good for summer and winter. It's got these beautiful beaches and crystal clear water ridiculously clear but it's also ridiculously cold And and then in the winter it's like some of the best slopes in the country. People actually like professionals actually go out there to experience. It professionals ski as yes. You know the people that have it really rough. Yeah you know what I what I always think of. When we talk about professional scares is like eighty ski montages? There's like the Ragtag group at the cabin who have to take on the local ski team and it's always like nine mountain and then it's like pets pets snafu. We grew up together. I am not defaulting school together and he. He thinks his mountain. That's why MT others just a bunch of rich bad just because you go to public school that you can take us all the Babes on this now narrow. You're already get out with steep snowboard and they win and it's like hot party at our place. This is actually like every screen movie that exists. What's the one that I really liked that? I always go watch the Youtube video for Ski School. Ski School go actually usually trailer for ski school. It's holier is the other thing I love about. Lake Tahoe is. It's very close to San Francisco so like we can get there in three and a half hours. You've actually done it. You've driven ribbon to lake. Tahoe in the morning skied all day like in eighties. Ski Montage Person and then driven back. That evening I don't recommend it but it's definitely possible. It's a super a quick weekend trip. Yeah it's one of the best weekend trips from San Francisco which we belong to historically lake. Tahoe was also the center of the in the heart of the wash. Oh Indian territory but then colonizers came through and just turn it into like tourism center. And it's kind of just been you know Tourism hub ever since which there's also like a lot of really interesting will weird history that came from that period of kind of pioneer tourism Get into later the other mid eighteen hundreds in California's crazy. Some weird should happen which we will definitely talk about. And I'm very excited about it. We can tell you're very excited about certain party that happened. It's the best. They have party hats they may have but they probably ate them. Okay we'll get leader. We have some stories of our own. We visit every year multiple times. We do because you know summer winter. What's your favorite one of our like ridiculous stories? They feel like we have a whole bunch. Oh Man Dan There was our last trip before our honeymoon. That's right Diablo's we kind of went on like a goodbye tour of California. We tried to hit all of our favorite California laforest spots. Because we're just like big California douchebag is when we really love it here and so we gotta campsites relieving in July we gotTa Camp Say India Bliss which was like our favorite place to camp? In Lake Tahoe. It's awesome and we start our hammocks because we we handicap. We sleep in. I don't like sleeping on the ground. I love being softly Iraq to sleep like a baby and we will tell anyone who doesn't ask all about him. It came but we love Hannah camping so the other thing though is like Tahoe is bear country. I'm a little scared the bears. I'm also just the kind of nervous person in general Anna. Get cold at night so I Made Jeremy you know. Share the Hammock with me. We were CO hammering and we've split a Hammock many time which was you know. It was fine up until this one time. Well we also set up the Hammock in the worst way possible. We set up our Hammock at night so we were just sort of like will find the first tree that we can and then grabbed one. That was not the right tree to us and we did mention the granite in Tahoe. There's granted everywhere just lying. Around giant big old hunk of granite we happen to set up our hammocks on top of a big pile of granite without noticing. Had No idea so middle of the night right were sleeping lake to you. Know Honeymoon babies that are about to take off a disastrous trip and we awaken with a giant crash because our hammocks straps had broken and fell onto the ground onto a pile of rocks. We were sort of like spooned together. In a way that like Leah's hip hit I took the entire like four hundred pound. Hit was the largest bruce I have ever had on my body and my life it looked like the ISR on Said said it really like I went into our honeymoon with this bruise that took over my entire leg. I don't think it went away until like Peru. My first thought as soon as we woke up with like the snap of the strap and then like a second later fell and my first thought was we have to get up. There are bears. Yeah which is not how you WanNa neither of those things or how you I want to wake up and then we had to put the fucking other hammock backup also in the dark and then we love back into it. Yeah well one didn't work with all this way and hopefully the second one holds. Yeah we when we woke up we realize like we had just basically we'd been using the same Hammock straps for a couple of years has had given up under our wait. We were definitely over the weight limit. I'm just I there is there are weight limits for things like this and we were over it and if there was a bear we scared the shit out of that bear bear was like whatever animal is in there. I don't WanNa take it how. I was probably an element because that was like the last place that we went before we left for our honeymoon. We were like man. What a weird travel disaster that will end as soon as we go on? Our honeymoon legitimately like two days before we left. Yeah that was an omen. What other Fun Tau Stories. We have so I have to come to mind. The first one was before I was born born. Were you there. I was there in spirit. My mom tells me the story all the time. My Tahu adventures have started before I was even a thought. My parents got married in Tahoe. Hang Ah Yeah. They got married at this little tiny chapel as you do probably on the Nevada side because of that and it had this like corrugated metal old roof and my mom always tells me the story of there was a hailstorm and so they go to that chapel and they're getting married and my dad is rocking his best. Don Johnson Miami vice like white suit rolled sleeves castel shirt. He had a weaker dress shoes. How do you even wear wicker her? It's the furniture. My Dad looks really good in the eighties. I don't know to tell you I have seen pictures. He was a very attractive man. You get a lot from him. So there's a hailstorm Started while they were in the ceremony and it was a curry gated metal roof. And so you can just imagine like hail just dropping on and everybody's is like do you take this man will be an N. Nobody can hear Shit and file my grandma Linda who's one of the funniest S. people on Earth Grandma. Linda I swear this an omen omen. She's from Tennessee right. No I thought she was from Tennessee. She's that's why does she have a southern accent. Arkansas he got a little south on you. This is this is the same woman who got a lap dance for my friend at our wedding. Have we told that story yet. We later later. We'll find that we'll find a way to work that in that was definitely an omen because your parents are no longer together so speaking of women's Lake Tahoe's a lot of omens for us. Yeah there's some Spooky Shit Intel who My second favorite story. You weren't there for but I was. I went snowboarding in Squaw valley. And there's a run. They're called Siberia sounds fun speaking of Omens. Yeah and so it was the last lift of the day Because Storm Storm was rolling in. Oh my God I already hate where this is going and I go up to Siberia and it's it literally looks beer. There's just white everywhere. No trees trees just white like it was like a blizzard while the hill was really high up to there were a lot. It was above the tree line so it's nothing snow and blizzards coming in. I think I saw that. It was like twenty I five mile an hour winds and I get off the lift and at this point in my life. I am not good at snowboarding and good now. I'm just getting actually. I saw you last. Sleek you're really good and so I get started and I'm like trying to scoot to start the run in the time of me scooting. My board got buried carried in snow and the medic comes up and tries to help me. He's like dude. You gotta go. He so I'm stuck there. My friends gone. I don't have any service. He was like. I gotta find other people. Are you good. I think I'm good. I'm just going to get to this lift and take the last one he's like. Oh my God I eventually take off my boots. And I'm just trudging through Siberia and I think they're Siberia and I get on the Gondola which is supposed to take you to the squad village MHM and I'm on the Gondola and it just stops that one movie you've eaten by wolves right but not not that I was gonna say frozen has a really great movie. Would you just let that go. I'm just I'm taking some jokes into the unknown right now. So I'm on this Gondola. It's like five PM. 'CAUSE as I was up on that hill for an hour and everyone's just gone and I have to call the front desk and there's like a guy on the Gondola right now to help Mauve. So you just like had self self-service I feel like I remember sending me panicked facebook messages so I sent you panic facebook messages while I was on the mountain but then I finally got service in the Gondola and I had like one bar our own Magadan so that was the time I almost died in Siberia. Yeah love that. You're so into snowboarding stories like this really makes me excited about how adventurous you are. And not at all the anxious for your safety so besides omens what is there to nothing less podcast over that was it. We just wanted to tell some stories about ourselves on the next episode. We're going to be talking Well let's talk about summer. I so by everything to do in Tahoe John. The summer is go camping. We mentioned deal bliss. It's like one of the best campsites in I think ever in the whole world it's awesome we might. I have an unfair opinion here because one time we rolled into. Dl Bliss like just trying to find a spot and we actually got the nicest campsite. They're probably ever just like show up at a spot you do. It's very competitive to get a spot and deal bliss what we usually do. There's something you can do on reservation dot Gov where you reserve federal campsites. It's you can basically choose your weekend and set up an alert and if somebody else cancels their spot you got their spot. So that's how we roll up with the best campsite because we had gotten somebody else's spot did actually book six months in advance. Like you have to do to get a good spot. All thanks goes but that was really really nice. There was like a bridge in the camp site which was awesome. And they're all right next next to the lake There is a beautiful private beach in that camp site. It's awesome it's really really nice. there's also Meeks Bay so many spe is Down on the shore of Lake Tahoe. And there's Meeks Bay resort. You can camp there as well and that's kind of like right across the street from sort of one of our favorite hikes which we'll talk about In a minute so you get the campsite on the beach and then What are some things that you like to do over there? Well obviously there. Is the beach like tacos awesome beaches. I mean and this like we say that coming from California Allegra we just got beaches on beaches all over the place both sides. It's awesome And you can swim swimming. A swimming area Out like all right off the shore basically basically it is a little cold but compared to the Pacific Ocean. It's actually not that bad people actually rent boats and you can go boating. Yeah we haven't been fancy and acting like a big you know schooner sooner sooner sooner or yacht are those those things are called. We've never had a We have gotten kayaks though which which is great kayaking is one of my favorite things to do when they tahoe and supping. Yeah you can do stand up paddle boarding. Yeah we did that what happened. Do you remember what happened. Do you remember what happened. Tell me about what happened. What happened Leo was was better at it than you? The person who can't even stand up straight because her balances so bad was better at stand up paddle boarding. Yes the world is then. I tried it again in Panama and I was really bad at it. And you're way better at it but I was better at it in Tahoe. And that's what matters you'll talk to you about it in Panama. Yeah well it only happened once. But that's why I stand up. Paddle boarding in lake. Tahoe is the best in the world. Because let me twice and I was better at it. In Lake Tahoe You can also go waterfall hopping. There's like waterfalls all over the place I was GonNa make a joke but then I realized that we did that in the episode description of the title of the episode episode. Last time. I know as long as you don't make me waterfall. Repel I'm good. Tell me about these waterfalls world. Luckily they're smaller than you're used to. Eagle falls is an Emerald Bay. It's there's a little alcove in the lake on the southwest side and and It's a short hike of a hill and you'll just follow the crowds from the Emerald Bay parking lot it's really pretty And it's really like a very quick hike. We say very quick and we're the ones saying quick. He knows actually probably like a one minute. Walk if you're in the south there's also horse tail waterfall. So it's on your way into South Lake Tahoe. The actual town It's eight hundred feet tall and so it's the largest one On thank you. It's the largest one in the area and there's Glen Alpine falls which is right about Fallen Leaf Lake where I've actually gone in hiking a few times around fallen leaf lake and it's cute little ache much smaller than Lake Tahoe. But absolutely beautiful but that one is cool because the water kinda like cascades down these little cliffs so it has has like that waterfall staircase look which really like. Looks like a damn screen saver and you are a really serious hiker. You can attempt the Tahoe rim trail. So let me just give you the backpacker spiel about Tahoe rim. So backpacker describes it as a great long trail for beginners or a laid-back laid-back. Walk in the woods for seasoned Thru Hikers. That sounds perfect for actually. Yeah it's one hundred and sixty five miles long over mind cause all the way around the lake but the good news is there are a lot of places where you can stop and the cop off your hiked. Lots of towns stopping got refuels so it actually does sound like a fairly beginner entry level through hake AAC And it takes about ten to fifteen days though honestly like if we can get back in our hiking I would not mind doing it. Sounds pretty awesome. Actually I really liked desolation wilderness. Elder nece what's it called the solution. That sounds johnstone sounds scary. I was imagining fog everywhere and being lost in like a murky haunted forest filled with like rabid bears fresh carcasses like this is going weirdly. Donner Friday thing. Just let it go all right. Just hold on a few minutes. I was expecting slender Mandalay. Give me directions but actually it's it's gorgeous and really stunning scenery. Probably the most money scenery in Lake Tahoe. Oh yeah there are like a bunch of charred trees which does give it like that creepy. Feel that I was really wanting Because there was a wildfire that went through a while ago please be safe about your fires. y'All leave no trace race but actually no. It's it's stunning gorgeous. And we did that hike. Do you remember Meeks Bay to cry. Lake which is like nine miles round trip desolation wilderness is actually a really big stretch of land so the great thing about it is that you can kind of do an out and back over you want so. We chose Craig Lake. Yes startling across the street from the campsite Meeks Bay and when we started. Actually it was foggy Augie like we had a little bit of that ownby all scary fog which was fantastic. Everything was a little bit eerie. So we just kind of hiked into desolation wilderness nine miles and a and we climbed all the way up. We want some rocky granite cliffs which is a tongue twister solid these gorgeous views and then we started hitting these lakes like one. After a- another there was all these Alpine lakes about five miles in you start hitting them and we wanted to stop it every single one of them. They were all gorgeous. I know we didn't think that it could possibly get more gorgeous. This but Craig Lake is the best one every other Alpine Lake is inferior to Craig Lake worth continuing. Its in. This valley created by mountain peaks and the lake is just a perfect mirror. It's so instagram. I know we had lunch there. And then we head back and it was perfect. My other favorite favorite hike in Lake Tahoe. I think this one is actually like the one to rule them. Aw Is Rubicon trail so rubicon trail starts at dl bliss. It's about another like nine mile round trip very similar so you basically we started using bliss. You're going to hike all the way down from because the Elvis is far above up on the cliffs above Lake Tahoe. You're going to hike down until you got to assure sure through all these like pine trees and granite with just stunning views. Because you're along the Tahoe shoreline but above it. So you're GonNa have all these beautiful views of Lake Tahoe the whole time. Then you're going to get all the way down there There's GonNa be like these meadows that you go through and then you're just gonNA hit a random Norwegian castle and you can get some ice cream there. Yeah which is a wonderful midway point to hike before they go back. There is a Norwegian castle in the middle of the hike. Yeah so it's called Vikings Home Castle which which I feel like if you're gonNA make a Norwegian castle and stick it in the middle of Lake Tahoe that's exactly what you should call it And it's located right along the shores of Emerald Bay. Why okay so so long story? Short rich people tracks. So there's this guy named Ben Holiday and that is his actual name And he decided to build the first summer home in Lake Tahoe. Way Back in the eighteen sixties. This site will be perfect. Boy Boy over there grab my bags kick out these indigenous peoples. Yes yeah all right. P. Wash Show Indians. And we're very sorry in nineteen twenty eight. Mrs Laura Josephine night. Purchase the land in trumped up the most fabulous holiday home that she could possibly imagine. Emerald Bay reminded her of the fjords that she had seen on her numerous travels to Scandinavia. Is via just love. His jaw some snow. The very the European. It's pronounced fjords right. I've been loads of times the PR Shaw's in Scandinavia. All seems really problematic. So she used this ridiculous castle for like fifteen years and had all these fabulous guests over for these parties and when they came over they would take this little rowboat over to an island in the middle of the bay which she also owned called island about private island. She even built a teahouse on it. And I love I love throws and being rich and fabulous. Okay now but Lake Nola. I want to be best friends with her. She sounds absolutely amazing. We really get along. I want to focus on fantasy island though. There's so much more to the story that we've talked about cute little island with a fancy teahouse on it. That sounds adorable wet mortar. There possibly be like scones because I love scones. I know it gets weird so it was vandalized so much that now. The teahouse is just an empty outdoor. Shell it's just outside of it you can still have T- there no that's sad there's more okay. Before night built the teahouse the island was home to someone with my new favorite name. Ever Captain Dick. Them's my toes barter. Fuck they're calmer captain Dick but are saying that was. Why do you say that captain earned that nickname because he got frostbite into his toes and he's self amputated them any kept them and he would show them to guess of the island? Dinner was good dessert. I'm taking notes for our future dinner parties because this is some of the best show that I've ever heard in my life so barter also built his his own tomb and chapel on the island for like when he eventually died So he's still there nope. He died in the lake when he crashed at Rubicon point in a storm in eighteen seventy three his body was never found out about his toes are can't be found. It's okay the ghost of captain. Dag will try to find your toes. I wonder how many dead bodies there actually are in Lake Tahoe. I actually looked up and there are rumors that mobsters used to dispose of bodies in Lake. Tahoe and because the lake is so deep and so cold those bodies are still in perfect condition just like at the bottom of the lake creepiest. Fuck luckily is not actually true. A few years ago a team of divers spent a month exploring the lake and find any bodies supposedly. There's there's an article in the Orange County Register with very disappointing headline Lake. tahoe underwater explorers find old boats and ancient trees but no mobster bodies no mobster bodies. What a bummer? They also didn't find any sign of Tahoe. Tessie I'm sorry Hilton. Hotels Tahoe's version of Nessie Loch ness monster adorable label. That's so cute. Cute or haunted and frozen so maybe there are frozen and preserved bodies floating around in the lake but you gotta wonder like how hunted is Donohoe. ooh Hell a haunted. Oh my God really. Yeah so there's a hotel in northlake called the Tahoe biltmore and has a resident ghost Mary who like roams the halls And it was the site of the Para retreat in two thousand eighteen. What is the Para retreat? It's the paranormal retreat and say it's like paranormal COMECON. I was thinking it was like parachuting end if you will parachute into para con patriot. I mean I would assume so. But they'd be wearing like a ghost costume And that's so cute. We should go so. There's also the Helmet Erman Mansion on the West Shore. has they said that there's like a presence and everyone who works there just feels energy have have to go viking home. Vikings home is haunted to and the rumor is at its haunted by Mrs Nights husband. Parties TANABE A- bludgeoned him to death with a battle on him. Now Yawns every tea party I have okay. We gotTA stop because this is worrying me because you literally make me throw you a tea party for your birthday every year and no pressure but in two weeks and turning thirty and it has to be the best tea party of. I am not building you a tea house on an island. Wow guess we're getting a divorce then you'll be haunting the house the lake of our house with my tears. Because I'll have killed you and then I'll be sad about it. We have even mentioned Chins just the thousands of people who died in the Tahoe area like all of the Wash U. Native people who were murdered by white people or the frontiers. Here's people who came in and died. Are we finally talking about the best story of all of Lake Tahoe. Is it finally time to talk about the Donner Party. 'cause I have been waiting patiently certainly I long to talk about the Donner Party even winter. You can't rant told the whole thing. Come on. That's fine you can tell the cliff notes version. I so the Donner Party. Is this notorious California story of a group of people that went out West now. We're talking like Oregon trail here. And if you know Oregon trail then you know that it starts in Independence Missouri and you basically just have to survive the elements elements as you make it to Oregon or California ever does. That's why nobody lives in California. Yeah there's nobody who stopped coming so the Donner Party is was actually a collection one of three different families. When you think of frontiers people you often think about like like the rugged men of the house rugged mountain men who can just like like trump across the country but in reality there were most the kids and women on this and it was like a full family? They packed their shit and left. They were looking for a better life and the frontier and they were willing to risk everything for it so the Donner Party would later be called. There was actually three groups that kind of merged together in the Mid West. Because they were like. We're GONNA do this easier if there's more of us more survival that way. People to spoiler the thing about crossing the frontier is that you have to start in spring because because if you start any later by the time you get to the Sierra Nevada's in the mountains the winter's GonNa come and you're gonNA get snowed in. It's going to hard to cross. That sounds difficult. So if you you start shame if that were to happen. I'm sorry I'm enjoying this. So if you start in spring than you'll make it over the mountains and time and you'll be in California. The Donner Party started a month late late. That was a tab on. Can you stop every line. You do that. It's getting. The Donner Party started a month on slate. Oh now what do you want from me. He told me I couldn't react. Can I react or not react. Okay whatever I don't know these also weren't seasoned pioneers. They were just like families they were just regular people who were like well we got nothing else and then there was one guy. James Reid who was the original leader of the group who was is just a rich dude who wanted to get richer. He brought like a whole bunch of furniture in his In his wagon Riley got like a couch in there and like a queen size mattress. Here's like the whole inside of his house. The ridiculous like wagon. They also had like dozens and dozens of pounds of just money Like gold golden lugging around the bottom of their their wagons. So what did he do so they got started late like I said and before they had left they had read this book. The Immigrants Guide to California which is actually how they got the idea to go there and it was written by this guy named Lansford Hastings and he sounds like an intelligent and well informed member society. NOPE nope he was a Flimflam man so he was already in California and he was. He looked at a map and he was like. Why do they take the trail up north to Oregon? We need them in California. You can just go this way. And he just pointed at a map because he was trying to start a war with Mexico right. Yeah he wanted to become the emperor of California little. Did He know that Andrew McMahon is that person no emperor. What's this phase of San Francisco and don't we have an emperor probably okay anyway? So he just pointed at a map and he was like that'll work and he never took the trail himself self and he published this book as a travel writer. This sounds irresponsible. He later took it he later took the trail and he was like oh no. I've made a huge mistake. Well at least fact act after the fact but it was too late because read and the rest of the Donner Party took the hastings cutoff. Because they were behind on time they started late and they were like this shortcut is he's GonNa take us there. Quicker the really. darkly ironic part is the hastings. Cutoff was like twenty miles longer than the original route. It was not a shortcut look shorter it on the map. I've made that mistake. We did that in Europe. We did do that in. Europe wasn't as disastrous as best though so it was not so. Where do they have to go through? They didn't go up North into Oregon. So typically what people did was they went north to avoid the great Salt Lake Desert. The cutoff went directly across the Great Salt Lake Desert. It was a little thirsty. Yeah it was. Days and days of being hunted All of their animal's hill by the indigenous peoples All of their most of their oxen number dying of thirst people were dying. There was just it was like imagine you're speeding across a desert and slowly but surely your whole family is just dropping like flies and you have like so much salt in your face and stinging your eyes you remember. We were in Salt Lake City and we saw like assault mask that they had to use across the desert and this was after the fact like they knew what they were getting into but when the daughter Party was doing it they had no idea they had nothing to protect themselves from just like salt blasts in their face and there was absolutely no fresh water. So they actually roughed huffed it day and night. They didn't take a break at all they walked for. I think like three or four days straight through the Salt Lake Desert and their oxen kept dying of thirst. It was rough there was even a mutiny. Mutinied so James Reid was like sent out because he was like killing everybody and then George daughter became the new like de facto leader of the group which is why they're now called Donner Party. And that's how I think it's GonNa work out better for them so eventually and we are skipping a lot of disaster eventually they get to the Sierra Nevada's and I want you to imagine the speed that they took they've got about half a mile a day. It was real slow. It was insanely slow. They were just pushing these carts inch by inch and a mountain of mountains. There weren't switchback. They were just going up and over mountains at this point and there weren't like this wasn't a well trod route like the Oregon trail enough wagons. had been on it that you could Kinda to just follow the path that had been carved out in this was like brand new mountain. Let's push this giant wagon up at Gerry. Maybe like twenty people had been through at this point. It's crazy and and they get to truckee lake which is now called Donner Lake and they decided to stop for the night and that night California's biggest storm came amen and they were buried in snow so they were really resourceful. In the people who were experienced with experienced mountain men quickly built. These cabins ends there and they were like cabin in Lake Tahoe. Yeah that was nice. And they're like we'll just wait out the storm it'll be fine was fine. It was it was not fine. They got there in November. The rescue parties didn't arrive to April. They were in the snow in Tahoe for that long and so that's so they would cook up the last of their oxen accent. They were cooking and they were like boiling down their shoes and their clothing for sustenance and then eventually had eat each other and that's when the cannibalism Elizabeth started. We did the thing we did that. It's not this podcast. It's different podcast. But we did the thing so the saddest part about this to me. It's not like it's not like something in happened. That drove them insane and they started killing eating at like we can't look villain. Is these people. They were sad desperate families and the grownups and the groups were willing to do whatever it took to save their children Most of the survivors of this travis. Tragedy were children so basically the adult started dying and in order to save the lives of their children. They like their last wish was like union to serve Me To my child. Please don't tell him what he's eating but like make sure he eats me actually no. I don't think anybody reportedly Woodley either family. Yes the Sarah Graves. His father died and his last dying wish to his two daughters was to eat him in order to survive. That was like the first one that was on the floor. And you need to read the book again. We're getting a lot of this information from a book called the indifferent stars above. And it's very good and you should all read it so let me talk about. The forlorn hope so so basically they were stuck at truckee lake and they were right in front of giant mountain and they were like okay. If we can just get up this mountain we can see where we are. We can try to like figure out when the snow stops but they couldn't make it up the mountain. They kept trying and trying and trying. They tried like twenty times. They made snow shoes. They were doing everything and they could could not get up this mountain this at this point. They're all kind of starving. They don't have very much strengthened. The snow is just brutal it keeps coming in keeps coming so they sent out. The forlorn hope and and essentially the forlorn hope was a small group of the strongest members. who were like? We're just GONNA get up there. We're going to bring nothing. We're going to leave as much as we can behind. We're GONNA buckets of California. We're going to get help and we're GONNA save everybody and actually they did. They did get help and that help did come back and save the people who are left but along. The Way Lhasa People's I'd lots of people were eaten and then it wasn't even any better once they actually so the ironic part and this is again like way more detail about this and the indifferent stars ars above but they went to get help and they found James Reed who they had cast out. This like douchebag rich guy from like three months earlier was there in and thriving and he was like Ma need my hope begun me. James read hero wonderful excellent. I should've send my best man. And so he sent his best man but it took them several months to get everybody back and people just kept dying along the way and it got to a point where they clearly like left everybody in a hole in the snow for like weeks and they were like let's just come back and got like their money because these people are going to be dead after the forlorn hope and they were like y'All going down. There are four rescue parties. Three of them were like actual rescue and four was like okay. These people got money. Let's get with the guy and the saddest part about it other than like children. Having their own parents. In order to survive is is they actually could have been okay if they were like less racist. Yeah the Washer tribe came up to them all the time and they were like. Hey they saw your Hungary. Have you tried acorns instead of beef like. Did you know that all of the trees around here actually edible. We've been living here for thousands of years we can show you. Oh no you're just going to shoot at us in each other. Never mind so bad where you can Vilnai's them but also you know those status quo. Yeah they didn't. They were terrified right like the entire time. They were hiking along for several months. An indigenous peoples had basically been gently picking off their oxen oxen. One by one. And at this point they were very scared of the indigenous peoples but there are like archaeological records showing that the Indians had helped them so mm-hmm and then and then in April they made it out. There were ninety people in the Donner Party when they first started about ninety that we know of and and forty-three died. Wow that's brutal. This is one of the worst pioneer disasters one of the most brutal. But it's also been very well recorded so we mentioned the indifferent stars about. It's an excellent book. Also the last podcast on the left which we did a little shoutout to have an excellent episode about this. We actually highly recommend listening to it while you're driving to or from Lake Tahoe. It really sets the mood. We were driving back and we were. It was like right after a storm. So there's a ton of snow and we're just like blank stare driving listening to and then they'd cut out the liver of. That's not what they sound like. It's not at all like but it's so good it's really well done. I don't know why I have such weird fascination with the story. I'd never heard it before. I moved to California. Like they don't teach this in the history books and Kentucky you know because why would they should. But I'm so weirdly obsessed with it. It's just like tugs at my heartstrings. I don't know why so speaking of Tahoe and winter. That is the most awkward transition. Okay here's some Upbeat music to help with the transition. Look speaking of Tahoe and winter. It becomes this winter or wonderland and it's just the most beautiful place imaginable. It is like if you're not stuck there in a cabinet meeting everybody rates no okay. I'm sorry we're done we're done so they're actually some things that like. Nobody told me about John Before. I went in winter for the first time so okay. First starters. Driving talk from the bay area on a Friday night is like this big communal road trip like so everybody's paying attention to win Tahoe get snow and as soon as they get snow everybody grabs their friends. Friends grabs their boards jumps in the car and from like three. PM till like seven PM. It doesn't matter when you leave because you're still going arrive at eleven pm because of the traffic. It's like crazy. Yeah I always deny that. That's actually GonNa Happen and I'm always like we got to leave early. We got to leave early and then we arrive at our cabinet and our friends were like. Yeah we loved it like seven. We got here right before you. Yeah and it's like you're in this giant caravan of Bay area cars pretty much the whole time and everybody stops at the exact same place. which is the in and out in Davis and it's the best in and out on the whole route? You cannot okay. I agree that it's the best one but I still maintain that you only think that's tradition. Because we do it. I don't know you walk into that in and out and like the entire in and out it's like three college students being like a God Bay area people again and then like fifty five like eighty s montage ski brose from Blake Silicon Valley being like. Ah We're going to do some coach. It was weird like Bay area thing. I thought you said we're going to do some coke later and then I realized you say code and I was like either one. They're one area so it's tradition to stop at an in and out and it should be the UC Davis one. In my opinion there. Say Hi. It's also never as cold hold in the actual town. You'll go through this snowstorm because there's always like two miles of chains and it's always like this really like billowy snow and you're like Oh my God there's going to be snow in town and then you get there and it's it's like well but even when they're snow on the ground you can still walk outside and like not very many layers and it's just it's the weirdest thing it's like fifty degrees even when it's snowing pulling in town and the thing about going every single time you go with people especially a big group. There's somebody who's never been there. They always get scared because every time you go there you get a warning that there's a snowstorm that's going to come and it's every single time somebody like there's a storm coming in. I don't think we should drive up there this weekend. I mean to be fair. The snow warnings are terrifying. It's like there's GonNa be twenty six feet of snow expected you're going to have to turn back brings snacks grumble Bob doing so. No that's just my go-to go to accent. But it is. It's like really scary sounding and I get why but nowadays when we read the winter snow storm warning. We're like ooh. It's going to be nice and snowy. So you did mention chains and I think we need to talk about that. Chains are very very important. You can't drive to Lake Tahoe on a good weekend and not either need to put chains on your car or have have all wheel drive very important definitely recommend especially if you're renting a car. Just go for the four wheel drive. It's worth it because chains you can't rent them because you can't like reuse them you can by them along the way you can buy them along the way. They're fairly expensive. Depending on where you go you can get them cheaper if you get closer to chain control but you're just kind of rolling the dice there that they suck doc to put on this sucks so much to put on because you're just like in the snow putting on chains. It's the worst thing called. It is almost as bad as getting stuck there for four months and having. I'm sorry I couldn't almost that. I made it for math so these days. We go at least once a year at least sometimes more honestly eh usually bring a big group of friends and we get cabin. We gotta make sure that there's like a hot tub. Everybody brings snacks and cook a big meal together and have us go. Go to a ski resort. It's really fun. And it's like one of our favorite things to do. We actually just got back this last weekend. We went to a group of friends took ski. Listen I did. I took one ski. USN go cried like a lot. But I finished it. which was my goal? My number one goal was finished the ski lesson. My number to stretch goal was like don't cry so I didn't hit that goal but I did finish the ski lesson and I'm very proud of myself. You can see me being a majestic baby giraffe on skis on my instagram stories under the Tejo Highlight we usually go to South Lake Tahoe mainly because I really like Sierra The thing about Tahoe in the winter though is that in the summer are you can drive from north to south and that's totally fine and it's a beautiful drive and you should do it. It's a beautiful drive also beautiful hike but in the winter you have to commit to North or South because you can't. I usually take the highway route around because it's usually snowed in Yeah so we usually do. South Lake Tahoe but actually both of them are really nice. There's there's very similar things about both of them. Neither of them have like a very walkable. Downtown area I've heard truck. He is really cute but we haven't actually been neither of them had like amazing. Seizing food like Tom. Who is not a foodie destination? Hold on there's the German restaurant I do love the German Restaurant House House. You've never really good special there. It's like my favorite post hike post skiing now that I've done one ski lesson food. And those also Bob dog the dog a bout. It is pretty good pizza. But it's not it's not like a foodie place you don't go there for the food so honestly picking North or South Lake Tahoe depends entirely on which ski resorts you prefer. and which ones you're going to now. You should know before you go there if you're an east coaster who moved to California and you're like I have skied before you skied a hill. These are gigantic granite mountains mountains. And I say this as somebody who was born in Massachusetts and went to school in Massachusetts and. Yeah he's right it's totally different so there are a ton of ski resorts in Dachau and we can't cover them all here but we can talk about some of our favorites. What is your favorite mine? I always go back to his Sierra. Tahoe it has a special place in my heart mark. The first one I went to. It's the first major wine you hit when you're heading into South Lake and it's one of it's one of the cheaper options and they have a lot of really good I'd like beginner. And Intermediate runs their blues are a little bit easier than most places. So beginners have a lot there. it's also the least crowded. I don't think there's ever been a day where I've where I've waited more than two minutes for a ski lift. which is crazy yeah? It wasn't all this weekend and it's one of the only remaining independently owned ski resorts in Tahoe. Which is really nice? You can tell it's got that like family kind of vibe. It's not like one of the big crazy ones that has like the flashy village or whatever never in it's also sponsored by Subaru which has no bearing on your experience but I just think it's kind of a fun fact. Is that because we own a saber. Al Yes the Saverio belonged to my late grandmother who was also a Subaru Person. She was wonderful. See people we love them. There's boreal mountain boils like probably the most budget friendly but the thing about it is that they have have a freestyle terrain park. That does not sound like my cup of tea. There's there's runs. That aren't the train park. But that's like the main that most of them are terrain. And you pass right by the Donner Party Memorial morial on your way there take it back. We have to go there. That's my new favorite ski resort. I love free styling. I love people. I have to sleep next tonight. This is weird. There's home would which is on the West Shore. It's really small inexpensive and it's got the best view because it's right on the shore. That sounds sounds actually really nice. View is the priority. Then that's the choice for you. Yeah actually that sounds wonderful and last time we were at Costco because we always stop at Costco. Go to see if they have discount lift tickets usually they have Sierra tickets But this year they had homeward think. There's they've stopped carrying zero. It's hard to know but definitely stop by Costco to see if they have discount lift tickets because they usually got something home woods mostly intermediate. But it's still a fantastic option. Let about the Philly higher priced options. So so there's two that immediately come to mind when you think of Tahoe and that Squaw Valley and heavenly it is actually so having these avail L. resort probably the most famous in Tahoe. It's also the largest. It's got a couple of base lodges in one of them is actually in the town of South Lake. Tahoe if you like a walkable area with like shops and stuff heavenly village is definitely what you're looking for. They have a Gondola from the actual town. That's like on the main dragon. A teachable all the way up the mountain and it's right on the border with Nevada. So if you like casinos. They're right there for you. Listen we're going to be honest. We are very very biased towards the California side notice. We have not talked about the Nevada side at all 'cause casinos mostly sorry and then there's squad Alpine So a squad is like for serious people or people who WanNa get lost in Siberia It hosted the Winter Olympics in nineteen eighteen sixty. So that's like that gives you a gauge of how challenging the terrain can be. But it's you know it's like an all all levels resort because it's a major resort. I've actually heard that it's like a really early. Like advanced resort for people that are like very serious about being eighty ski montage stars. They do have beginner runs. But they're typically at the lower side of the mountain and then sugarbowl resort. I like sugar bowl resort because it is another independently owned resort and their claim to fame is being one of the oldest ski resorts in the West and having the deepest pissed and most ridiculous. No out of any of the tahoe resorts and also and this is fun. Little facts which is a semi related. It's located on Donner summit at Donner Pass whereas Donner Pass. Jeremy What does that have to do with We're just talking about. Do you do you everything to come back to the Donner Party. Everything has has to come back to the Donner Party. But also Disney which is my other obsession because Walt Disney was one of the original founders of this resort. That's going to be a trip soon. Actually that's GonNa that'd be the next episode. We're GONNA do it. There are some luxury ski resorts. Kirkwood northstar lovely. How are they couldn't tell you? Never been if you are the type of person who goes to luxury ski resorts. Please let us know how that is. How how that life is like? We are very curious. Now you might be asking like isn't Lake Tahoe. Oh always expensive and the answer is that it doesn't have to be. It really doesn't like you'd think that you know everybody going to Tahoe. Every weekend is super rich and yes. It's true skiing and snowboarding are not the cheapest sports but it doesn't have to be you. Don't have to go skiing snowboarding. While you're there you can go to a budget place and get a cheaper ticket. There are so many ways to make your trip to Tahoe. Oh affordable and the first step that is just google anything about budget tahoe winter and go to our website Yes that's so convenient that we have a giant practical guide ride to planning a lake tahoe winter trip on a budget or you can just click the link in the show notes that works so you might be asking. What else is there to do? If you're not into skiing skiing or snowboarding because you know Donna party breaking your leg all right have. We not moved on from the Donner Party. Jeremy it's just getting really annoying at this point and I wish he would stop. So there's sledding into being you can You can tube Sierra and you can rent the tube and go up this little moving sidewalk or or you can do it the hard way and by a to Amazon. They have some really fine line animals in silly shapes. There's like a fire dragon. He's Kinda my favorite and you can just like go to a good health so we went to spooner summit last year and just like walked up Capitol Hill and then tube down the Little Hill and It was a very good workout and also a lot of fun. There's also snowshoeing. Most of the major resorts will have snow shoe trails. uh-huh Kirkwood has like a whole snowshoeing center. Yeah which is basically just hiking but like legalizing on top of this now. She's pretty awesome. There's my favorite Tahoe in winter. Tippety which is just sitting in a hot tub if you're GONNA rent a cabin and Lake Tahoe which showed there are some available like VR B. O or AIRBNB. There are some. I'm pretty strict laws now surrounding that. But you can still find them and do not rent without a hot tub because they should have one that is like that is a requirement. I think that I think uh-huh some point it might have been state mandated that. Yeah Yeah it's actually part of the like contentious new laws about AIRBNB. Apparently some do she millennials from in the bay area where like enjoying themselves too loudly in the hot tub And that is why Verron out stricter restrictions so if you go to the hot tub you do so quietly also trying to slip on the stairs because I did last week and my entire but is black with bruises. Yeah it's rough speaking of falling on your but you can ice skating at heavenly village. That sounds Cathodic so hard. Pass on that. There's dog sledding. It's coie which sounds adorable. There's huskies that you can you can. Dog sled with sounds amazing. I'm not sure the ethical side of it though so you got to look at it. I'd have to do some research. I have been dog. sledding in Norway in it was ethical you can definitely have awesome ethically responsibly treated dogs but they are not. There's no consensus on whether dog sledding is ethical. It depends on the place so I can't tell you if they have been vetted or not. I have not done that research. If you want something that Leah will never do or I will never do you go cross country skiing Royal Gorge which is the largest cross country ski area. Are you in North America. I don't know why you would say that I would never do it because you should know that. I love Scandanavia one of my favorites. We've come full circle. I really do want to go back to Tahoe again. I know we were just there two days ago days ago. It's been it's been a while I would like to go back really miss it you know. Yeah and while we were there I would like to go to The memorial please. Please take me v Memorial. Yes you know the the memorial gets buried in Snow Right. That's traction well. Hopefully this has gotten you guys a little bit hungry to visit my brother cannibals. It's all we should do like a count of how many times we talked about it on her party in this episode. Because I feel like a lot. Yeah can you guys let us know how many we did. And I think that it would be appropriate to to end today with Some pretty radical eighty ski montage music uh-huh

Lake Tahoe Tahoe California Donner Party South Lake Tahoe Tahoe Sierra Nevada San Francisco Dan There Craig Lake Siberia Meeks Bay Nevada Tahoe rim trail Tahoe John Oregon Jeremy What Lake placid dl bliss Emerald Bay
Disney Offering Bundled Deal For Cable Cord Cutters

Dishin' Digital

01:00 min | 1 year ago

Disney Offering Bundled Deal For Cable Cord Cutters

"Addition digital brought to you by h new york's ultimate cameras superstar disney is turning up the heat in the battle for cable cord cutters. It's november debut. You of disney plus will cost seven dollars a month but disney says you can also get it as part of the discounted bundle with e._s._p._n. Plus an ad supported version of hulu for thirteen dollars a month that saves you five dollars. If you were to buy all three services separately and that's the same price netflix most popular standard plan the move from disney comes as apple gets ready to launch its own streaming service this fall and as n._b._c. universal will debut its own offering next year disney says it's also considering reboots of fox franchises like home alone night at the museum in diary of a wimpy kid. The house of mouse bought twenty first century fox for seventy. One billion donner's earlier this year dishing digital. I'm palmer dane and there's more at w._c._b._s. Eighty dot com slash dish in digital.

disney palmer dane hulu new york donner netflix apple thirteen dollars seven dollars five dollars
They'll Tell the Story of Tozeit 7/14: Bari Weiss, LA Times, Blindings, The Donner Party

The Daily Zeitgeist

17:45 min | 3 months ago

They'll Tell the Story of Tozeit 7/14: Bari Weiss, LA Times, Blindings, The Donner Party

"At Tropical smoothie cafe, they want you to get away every day. Unwind with their watermelon. Mo- HITO, and new Guava Margarita smoothies pair one with their delicious new barbecue pork case a dea for a mini summer vacation this summer. Tropical smoothie cafe is bursting with flavor made to order with fresh quality rock ingredients with sixty Washington DC area locations. It's never been easier to ride the summer wave of flavor order ahead online for carry out curbside, pickup or delivery at participating locations tropical smoothie cafe. Cafe you're on tropic time now does finding job feel like the hardest job ever with Lincoln learning? You can take a course like ten ways to stay motivated while job hunting one way is to create a vision board. It'll be there for you reminding you why you're looking. And what's most important key learning to land your next job? Get this course and thousands more top by industry experts free for one month at Lincoln, learning dot com slash trial linked in learning where in it together. Hello the Internet and welcome to this episode of they'll tell the story of desite Little Hamilton reverence. Which? Pick nailed it I'm Jack. Fat Smiles All oh. Yeah. O'Brien gray respect. Let's tell the people what's trending. We. We've been talking about. One Bari Weiss all day our pounds yeah Berry Bari the Indian writer whose opinion I've never respected. Stink. I mean it's a Lotta. Weird. Both sides that a lot of her opinion. Pieces are, and she has a lot of bad faith. Arguments on you know apartheid state, Zionism and things like that and. this resignation. According to her letter about like I mean it's just. The the market free ideas completely gone in that place in democracies died in that editorial. It's not progressive like it's our talking like we'll. Certainly regressive is not good either because. The society we were all about improving things, not arguing on behalf of our ideologies, but. Go off, yeah she. She in her resignation, letter said they have called me and Nazi and racist. I have learned brushoff comments about how I'm quote writing about the Jews again so. She's claiming that the people who call her a Nazi racist for being racist in her writing, and also being very. You know militantly Zionist and pro. Apartheid? State are also antisemitic in their legs, just like such A. Bad. Faith argument or like she's taking to quotes from clearly two separate sides, and being like the I, mean these are criticisms of me. And therefore a fuck progressives, and it's all part of canceled culture. Yeah I. Mean it's. It's weird for someone who like works with a reporter like Nicole Hannah Jones. You know when like a Pulitzer. For her sixteen nineteen work, and the shit that she would get for people, and not you know not no not taking her back on anything like that when there's like real people who are facing this kind of stuff, and still continuing to act like you are in this like oppressive. Environment. I mean by definition. If you are spitting like weird conservative bullshit that is you know not inclusive and exclusionary and Xena phobic and any other thing. Yeah maybe that does feel hassle when you're full. People who don't agree with that because it's objectively A. It's not a winning hand. Yeah, it's. Also, just morally wrong and tolerating is morally wrong. It's not the not the right thing to do. and she has been complaining that there's a civil war between forty something white liberals, and the younger walks as she calls them. Yeah, which is basically a derogatory term for people who believe progressive values. Thing she even got into spat with Nicole, Hannah Jones over like this article about how? There's like this about like. There's this piece that vanity. Fair was describing Jordan Petersen's a gateway drug to like the outright and going on Blah Blah Blah and she and Brad Stevens was also like in this. You know conservative, visionary Brad Stevens was also. They're like in this article, but byways like she quote tweeted this a few years ago, it was like the gateway drug to those flirting with the outright are actually pieces like this? That was mentioning that. This is a tightrope that they're doing and then Nicole Hannah. Jones is like quote. Tweet at her. I remember like this. He said, according to New York Times style. All right is to be described as a racist far right fringe group. So you're saying pieces like this are the gateway to white people becoming white supremacists. That's your hot take and she's like. Hi there. What I'm saying. Is that draw distinctions between people like Sam. Harris and people like Richard Spencer Strips the designation all right of its power in meaning that has two main effects as I see it first, and then it just based. When People Start Cape being like further word or brown all right, that's okay. My antenna's gone up. Nine, ten gone, yeah, and Jia Tolentino in trick. Mirror writes about like. Canceled culture as she deals with it, a go tolentino, which is like she's an online writer she has been. Criticized and shouted down for things she's written before, and rather than just being a defensive and ignoring the perspectives of the people who. Criticize her. She just listens to them and has a conversation and eventually. Figures out were adjusts her stance and has learned every time. That something like that has happened. Is actually a very a great writer and a smart person and Barry Weiss. It seems like her responses to just. Get defensive and. Equivocate and fight anybody who who wants to criticize her and her career. Long like the one thing that you can count on is that she is going to complain about people criticizing her, which seems to be? A strong strong tendency on the right. So. I feel like I've been negligent in not opening vershow the fuck Barry Weiss but you know the secretary scepter down, although on a twenty fifth I remember when like George, Floyd was killed there. She had like a piece I was like Joe Rogan as the new mainstream media and she was like in like she was like in the studio. And in a way on my yeah, he definitely has a large. You know audience that definitely listen to him, but like the whole pieces like Oh. Come on Bari. Yeah. The La Times is trending They came out and said it's time to find. A new national anthem canceled. The Star spangled banner. The best tweet you know I'm about to cancel my subscription to the La Times then that was going to happen when me WANNA cancel the top reading the news. Even know who Francis Scott key was. Did you know how wealthy his family was from slavery? Do you know how tidy was with Andrew? Jackson? Do you know? Do you really okay? Now guy was cool and maybe the lyrics. We had to change a couple of things around, but it's still I mean I don't know what? I I'm trying to think of places. Other sporting events only in the Olympics, do is my. Does do I have like a thing. Where like okay. I think there's a national anthem there for like international tournaments. We're like you're representing your country against another nation in competition, y'all see that like a rugby or for purposes of identification. Yeah, but the in the like you know you don't go to Japanese baseball game and they don't have Kiyo like playing like over the loudspeaker before you start the game off or anything like that, very. The, I don't know. Yeah I I think the only my only like my first thing is like Oh. Can you do that, but I'm almost? That's only because I'm like I've been thirty five years on this planet. Just knowing that that's just like my Pavlovian response like. I'm at sport event because I've heard. Bob Aw bone. Like, that was. Sucks. SOX! NOx ducks Bro just. What should we replace it with like what's what's good song that gets at what's great about this. Country I'm taking submissions on Twitter A. But should be. Being covered a lot I guess right. Yeah I mean is almost like. Do we have to sing, you know? Just. Can we just do international players anthem? yeah that that would be good. That will kind of get you. You know even though that one goes for a little bit of time runs a minute time investment. Also I'll stick around for that just because when he gets going. Then you're a guy you're you have your energy up and it's a little sentimental, and then you're like wait. Why are we here again? Oh, that's right. Play Ball here in a stadium full of Nascar Fan. Sing along to a youtube. And people be like. Hey, take your damn hat off man. Weird. Anyway. Did you hear that that? Every girl that he'd CC round town. God Damn is there's so many like beautifully perfect corny lines in Andres verse on that Oh. Yeah, the spacious. Don't come review Mir's. Yes, they say yeah. windings please personally blinded eight people in a single day at George, Floyd protests This is that behavior hasn't been explained hasn't been really addressed. Still continuing, but the those videos that we've seen of police just straight up. shooting at people shooting at a local news casters who are just staying there. With like full intent like you can see them just. To. Head. Yeah, that has been explained to way there. The police just feel like they. You know the fact that we even get to question them. Is That's a crime actually? Yeah, that's a crime and it's not our right and they've just. That's why an independent little babies when you look at those like any kind of police interaction that goes south. It's always when this typically weak willed man has been didn't like his authority has been denied by someone. And that's when it will like what dude I'm a cop. It's really just sort of like what dude I'm a kid. Nobody listened to for their entire life. Then I got into this Gig. Where if you fuck oh? Yeah, fucking say you're not gonNA. Listen to me because I can turn it up real quick. Have that on my side, and like that's the energy of of these people you see when especially when people know their rights. It's like even doubly infuriating to like some of these officers like okay as your Lord. It's You know we got. We have to really think about how we deal with crime and define crime. I feel like I say this all the time, but. There's so many quote unquote crimes being committed, which is really just our failure to take care of our neighbors in our community. It's because people are desperate. Some because there's there's this evil thing. Going round called crime said we're leaving people behind and like that's how some some people have to survive in ways that we've deemed illegal. Man I got such a visceral like flashback to just like those bullying S. kids who I grew up with when we doing that like what you're not gonNA listen me. Like I I have to look those people. I moved around a lot, so I lost track of like. With. Trauma. See, How many of them became cops. Wouldn't you know what they're all? They're all kinds by the way. Speaking of bad cops. Have you seen the show unbelievable on that flicks about unbelievable, the serial rapist but it's got. It's got some really good performances. One of the girls from book smart, isn't it and is great? To see that book smarts really funny, it's because I don't want it to unseat Cock blockers in my mind for teen comedy movies that share just seacock blockers so. Proud. Hot blockers and all see books. Deal. So Funny Her Majesty's lows a movie to that. There's this one friend of ours who as a bit always center the DVD of blockers? She loves it, so we've got three fucking. DVD's in this house. Thing that should. That's funny. And then finally, the Donner Party is trending. Be Seen this story about the donner. Party yeah. History. Waving the. The trail going westward, yes, a rush, limbaugh, one of their a honorary fuckers from the beginning of every day's show. Just broke out the metaphor that America needs to start to adapt. Just like the Donner party adapted and a surge eating people wait, did he? Was He aware enough to be able to talk like? Did he mention that that we need to eat each other, or he would just a nuance. He completely missed because that's what most people think of what the what happened with the Donald No I think he was saying like. Hey, times are tough, we. You know we got, we got to start making some tough decisions late. Let me read the direct quote. It looks like the corona virus is being weaponized as yet another element to bring down Donald Trump now. I want to tell you the truth about the coronavirus. The coronavirus is a comical. Okay. Now that was earlier, and then he said Americans should adapt to corona virus like pioneers who had to turn to cannibalism so he didn't even mention Donner Party I guess he just said that. We need to adapt like pioneers who turn to cannibalism. which as I mean? It's actually a really good metaphor. As former guests I think she's been on. Maggie fish really funny, talented performer, but she pointed out Russ limbaugh seems to not know that the only reason the Donner party happened was because they followed a liar who made terrible decisions and wasting key time windows that would have prevented the entire disaster, and also by the end it was mostly kids eating old people which is all true and hell yeah. Let's. Do what the Donner Party did seriously. Alright. The those are four things. What's trending today? That's GonNa do it for this Tuesday. We hope you guys are well Stay safe. Stay inside wash your hands. be kind to each other. Be Kind to yourself. Don't do nothing about white supremacy will be back tomorrow with a whole asset the. Together. I go by. At Tropical smoothie cafe? They want you to get away every day. Unwind with their watermelon, Mo-. Hito and new Guava Margarita. SMOOTHIES pair one with their delicious new barbecue pork. Case the DEA FOR A MINI-SUMMIT VACA- this summer. Tropical smoothie cafe is bursting with flavor made to order with fresh quality rock ingredients with sixty Washington DC area locations. It's never been easier to ride this summer wave of flavor order ahead online for carry out curbside, pickup or delivery at participating locations Tropical smoothie cafe your tropic time now. The Algorithm has said that he was a match for this. Mugshot said to them. Do you guys go? Black people look alike that look nothing like me. What happens to our civil liberties? An Algorithm is used by law enforcement to make an arrest African American Asian people up to a hundred times as likely to be satisfied by facial recognition. Check out the latest episode of first contact to hear me Laura Siegel and ACLU President Susan Herman. DISCUSS, how if we're not careful? Technology could put our civil liberties at stake. Listen and subscribe to first contact with Lori Segal on the radio APP on Apple. Or wherever you get your podcasts.

Donner Party writer Guava Margarita DEA Brad Stevens La Times Barry Weiss George Bari Weiss Lincoln Little Hamilton Lincoln Hannah Jones O'Brien New York Times Donald Trump Berry Bari rugby Nicole Hannah Bari
S3-12 Alice Osborn and David Poston  Socially conscious poetry, essays and songs

Charlotte Readers Podcast

1:10:20 hr | 1 year ago

S3-12 Alice Osborn and David Poston Socially conscious poetry, essays and songs

"Welcome to Charlotte Readers podcast. We're authors give voice to the written words. This is the show me Charlie Authors and those who visit the Queen City will hear them read their work shoulder is podcast is part of the Queen City podcast network a collection of locally based locally produced locally focused podcasts that you can take anywhere and listen to it's your own pace regretful to our season three sponsors Parker Books and Charlotte Mecklenburg Library for helping local authors in those visit the Queen City give voice to the written words shirts Parker books the oldest and only independent bookstores Charlotte with a welcoming staff ready to help you find your next great read the stores right there in the park shopping centre with the big blue letters Shell Maverick library services in central actual connector of a thriving community of readers leaders and learners with twenty locations and a twenty four hour online presence. The mission is to improve lives and build a strong community. This shows recorded in the well-equipped podcast video advent co working right here in the Belmont Community Uptown Charlotte. It's welcome space for members who like to collaborate and be creative. You can find links information about this episode in the show notes that our website Charlotte of podcast dot com but enough with the prologue. Let's get to the stories. I'm your host. Landis Wade thank you for listening in today's episode poet in Prose Writers Alice Osborne and David posted share the socially unconscious poetry essays and songs Palestinians Not David who only homes a bit explore variety of thought provoking haunting topics including David's essay when how reading made him a better person in the face of the knee against you've movement and Alice's Obsession Ocean to write pros and sing songs about the Donner Party a family that traveled West for a new life over one hundred seven years ago he got stranded in the snow in the Sierra Nevada mountains. We talked about Frankenstein here poem about Chuck Norris and Jesus and one called old bottom drawer for labrum book about civil rights was hidden by young girl from her father. We start first with Alice reading the Poem Hunger and David Reading the point when hot people hunger is hunger is as a plastic bag in May waltzing across bear parking lots the neighborhoods tied up telephone poles drenched and Sepia and creosote trap famished flies can hunger be strength a willful dance of power. You're denial refusal. Stop your wining and do your writing instead of distracting yourself with cheese sticks and lightly salted peanuts eight and eight never be satisfied. If you don't eat you won't die. This isn't the Grapes of Wrath. You need courage not to give into buying more Amazon t-shirts sustainable striped scarves more cookbooks for all the uses of buttermilk but yes to more drinking books about about the history of whiskey. How does the angel share evaporate more drops in Kentucky than Scotland? Another hour loss to heavy alcohol study hunger locks you into the future but also the past can't leave this place of neither up or down meditate contemplate without attention. you'll weather like those angry grapes or starving insects. You don't want to eat silence. It's you want Bacon Fried. Please with the crispy ends covered in Pimento cheese. You know the homemade kind. I hate it. When hot people die hi Caitlyn to Brittany during high school class change twenty-three January two thousand eight the morning she wakes up to find that dying young is not to be her fate? It won't matter as much as anything. She's facing today. The already she's noticed at special cachet won't be surprised at the cottage industry images of Maryland and James Dean was skinny. Elvis doesn't make room at the counter for Heath Ledger shaking off the dregs of the fat Elvis nightmare. She'll understand then in a way far beyond anything she might imagine now what drove Steve McQueen to the Mexican clinic despite the odds and she'll ask the mirror why anyone would be dying to be that cool Gastonia poet writer David Post and tall for thirty years in public schools U._N._C. Charlotte Charlotte's young writers workshop his work has appeared in numerous publications and he's the author of my Father Reading Greek postmodern bourgeois protester Blues News on the northbound riders networks Randall Jarrell Harper Prints chat book his full length collection slow of study was a finalist for Texas View Press Breakthrough Prize Kill on David serves on the Workshop Committee for the Northbound Poetry Society Atty on the boards of the Friends of the Gas County Public Library guesting Literacy Council in Charlotte riders. He's also active with the Charlotte Center from Literary Arts where he's presented lectures and Frankenstein Service Facilitator the Beautiful Truth Initiative series of community community writing workshops house osborne is a multi genre author singer-songwriter editor for higher from Raleigh. North Carolina is most recent CD is whole derelict's poetry collections include Heroes Capes after the steaming stops and unfinished these projects Halas laws writing songs about American history that frequently return to the themes of home identity in urine. Her family has deep roots going back before the revolution a former editor for wake living magazine houses also editor of the anthologies juiced tattoos and creatures of habit both from main street rag on riders network. We're Kinda put your Saudi Northland Songwriters co-op board member at a PUSHCART Prize nominee. She's currently working on a novel and CD about the ill-fated Donner Party it she plays Acoustic Guitar Celtic Fiddle and Bluegrass Banja Alex welcome to the show and so glad to be here. Thank you so much Landis David Welcome. Thank you good to be here so we got to poets who also right pros. So how does that work <hes> David you started out. <hes> you talk <hes> Pasco for years. How was it teaching high school kids poetry? Well you know the day <hes> <hes> had to learn that they were poets who had not died and decomposed and rotted away. They had to realize it had some relevance and you kind of go from there. Not all it's not all Shakespeare and <hes> longfellow by goodness and Alice. You've been a poet for some time but you describe yourself sort of a multi genre author singer Songwriter Editor for higher so you everything I do but I would start saying I was a poet since I was a little since I've always been sad you've always been so. What have you been sad about? Oh various things I know it's not a therapy session makes me a better poet because then I can go back to that well and go oh I'm sad and then and then because I think the best poet for me poetry's about conflict and going to that spot where you you feel that emotional rawness and you can better connect to your audience because that's what being a human being is all about connecting to those emotions without being robot girl and trying to and putting on the mask that everyone expects you to put on to go about your daily life. I can't do that I got to be I gotta be <hes>. That's the trouble with Alice. GotTa gotTa be authentic and that's what makes me a poet good Netflix Sitcom. That's the trouble Alison today. She talks about sadness influencing her poetry. What what influence is yours well? I think what I've learned to do. Recently you know some pretty horrible highschool poetry. I don't know if you saved yours or not. Alice actually didn't burn all of mine you start to learn to see the humor and stuff and also how the best poetry hits several levels that you find the humor you find the sadness. You've got to put something out there that people can relate to and you've got to get it starts with your experience but you've gotta Mike it go beyond your experience and figure out where the poem lacy so we're going to talk a little bit about these first pieces you wrote and by all means. I'm not a poet's y'all jump in participate as well <hes> but I I've got a cup of questions here but each of these poems starting <hes> Alice with hunger. What were you hungry for wrote those posts? I was thinking about my son Daniel because when he was a baby that's all he would do is eaten eat and eat and he wouldn't stop and he stole that way. Now he takes food to his room and hides it and eats girl. Scout Cookies denudes them. The skeletons are left all over his dresser drawer. I was thinking about that. I was as I was forming the poem and then I was also thinking about this hunger of having to be a creative person where you cannot be anything else else you have to create but then you also put these blocks in front of you to procrastinate <hes> my procrastination blocks either are being very busy where I don't have that time to create and you're running around doing this this this this which helps but you really have to slow down and I did that yesterday I was supposed to be somewhere and I cancelled because I had to get things done so that I could get <hes> my deadlines met and that in the poem is is where you're always looking at Amazon trying to buy things or <hes> ooh that's neat. That's a rabbit hole. Oh that's cool. That's my research but it's not serving you as a creative person which you told yourself you would be and that's the that's that's the conflict and it's not sad but it's a point of frustration where I felt this and I thought it would be fun to also combine another poem that I did many at ten years ago and I combined. I did a mash up of that poem and that's in the first I stanza where I went to creosote and flies and then I started thinking about the Grapes of Wrath of hunger which is my favorite classic book my John Steinbeck and all of this has nothing to do with the daughter Party which is my fascination but it does because this was written way before so so you got this line in there or stands I guess can hunger be strength a willful dance of power denial refusal so how how is Hungary form of denial and refusal to where you're hungry for your goal and nothing else matters and you don't put other you don't put your roadblocks in front of you you or your you don't get in your own way which is switches you strip yourself of needing to do that and and hunger sometimes you can just stay still and succumb to the darkness and and you're still hungry and you give up up but in this stanza what I was thinking about was rushing up to your feet and fighting even though you're still so hungry and not letting your hunger stop you but actually drive you to madness in a way an obsession what you say to this at the end with <hes> your bacon crispy cheese involved. I got Kinda hungry at the end of that. Maybe that's why you get angry. Russia get up to that to get that Bagan. Let's talk about hot people for second. David always always <hes> first of all tell us about the title <hes> <hes> hate it when hot people too so the morning after Heath Ledgers Day I'm standing in Hall Hall L. Duty at the hospital where else teaching at the time and <hes> Caitlyn who called Caitlyn in the poem because that's really her name <hes> just was walking down the hall in with great indignation said to her friend Britney. I hate it when hot people doc and also have a <hes>. I'M A fan of Steve McQueen so he came yeah. Thomas Crown Affair bullet hole but he the last stanza talks about his his demise which he was looking desperately for some way to prolong his life as anybody would and then I just thought about the infamous black velvet paintings all that stuff so came together you know what about this idea that being the to cool movie star can lead to young death that happens too often but <hes> certainly something that we see a lot and wonder about it seems like the the person that the person in your your piece is wondering about whether she or he whoever's got better because they're not a person where we're going with that David well you know I'm figuring out as we talk Landis and one thing that I I'm trying to analyze mine poems. We we all have to do so. It's both about the death of a celebrity and also the fact that there's a human being behind this. It was afraid who was ill. <hes> and of course now fat Elvis came into the poem. Kinda lighter tried to imagine you know when you're in high school with the way you look at things so refreshing and then as you get older you know. Will you look back realize there are we all learned. They're more important morton things in the celebrities we worship at the time where we hope we did so you know cast in that wide net or a lot of things came into the poll just about celebrity mortality what it boils down to so when <hes> when post get together and the here each other read read their work. What do y'all do to each other Utah sucked each other work right there on the spot on Fan girling right now because I love Steve McQueen and I wrote a poem about him and when my favorite T._v. shows true detective detective they made a whole episode about the whole day was the day that Steve McQueen died and all the characters kept saying the day Steve McQueen died November seventh nineteen eighty and I I'm so excited to be with my friend? David who is also a Steve McQueen Fan and I wrote a song about Steve McQueen. Do Not know we had this in comedy. I mean I I used to have a Mustang so it was director. I mean you I mean I can't call myself a Mustang owner if I I don't know the history of Steve McQueen I've got the visions you're talking about the movie the great escape when he's on the motorcycle child to go away and jumps the feds and gets tangled and once again doesn't make it out. It was actually his buddy but who did the stunt because insurance wouldn't let Steve do it lawyers happy on Papillon Great. Maybe we'RE GONNA WE'RE GONNA move now to <hes> some of your pros writing and <hes> we're going to start with a piece that <hes> that you've written David. That's a bit <hes> <hes> autobiographical here I suppose <hes> and you got the social justice ideas percolating through this this should be fun <hes> so give us a title and then <hes> and then read a little bit about yourself. This is how I got the Red State Blues a bibliography. I will say this. It was written in two thousand fourteen but to update it for today. I simply added one night and all will all recognize it. I'm sure how I got the Red State Blues. A bibliography everybody from one day to another has the Blues Albert King Your beliefs. I ain't like mine DB More Campbell mob lose since I'm a southern white guy what how a good would call light middle age you might think they'd be the tea party blues but I'm just not feeling that angst that need to defend traditional marriage and loving gay couples the voting booth from people of Color the state economy from hardworking emigrants willing to you do jobs no one else wants or the poor from nutrition education or portable healthcare. I'm feeling more and more alienated for many of my good conservative friends and neighbors blind my reading habits as early as fifth grade when Mrs Burns calling me reading treasure island during math time I was already doomed to never be a job creator in high school. I was a kid reading fire in the like in the female eunuch. The former inspired my endless. SATNAM WAR DEBATES WITH MR Hamilton in American history class and the latter titillated and terrified me by teaching career exposed me to rise. We're watching God things fall apart the handmaid's tale invisible man the poison awesome would bible when students told me they had trouble with the idiom of their eyes were watching God. I would smile to myself for the first time I met Janey walking back into town at the beginning of the novel like she had Grapefruit Center hip pockets with great rope of black hair swinging to her waist and unraveling in the wind like a balloon Janey and company used expressions. I've never seen in print before but it often hard as a teenager working in the farm fields of eastern North Carolina yet Janey strained mom understanding in a different way she started not just memories of adolescent longing not just admiration but also pitying something like fear Janey grew to Roy status in my eyes she pulled me into a broader and deeper understanding of the human condition my bad reading habits got worse. When I retired from teaching I had time to read the unabridged les miserables and Meals Zola's germinal the U._S._A.? Trilogy as Zarni Feces Reading Lolita Theron and worst of all the brief wondrous life of Oscar while I suppose could blame my friend Ron. He introduced me to the Work Reginald. Dwayne bets invited me to go here. Sherman Alexi speak volumes of Jimmy Santiago Baucus poetry. It's his fault. I've read see trying and thirteen Mexicans a place to stand the lone ranger and Tanto Fist Biden Heaven Shaheed his own Paul Lately. It's all come to ahead reading victor. Hugo makes it hard to see the one and a half million people who qualify for food stance in this state deadbeats reading Sola makes it impossible to disregard the human cost of fracking or the wider implications of coal ash bill the Dan River reading does Passos informed my view of the occupy movement colored my perspective on Mitt Romney and his comments about the forty seven percent and has made it impossible for me you to Trust Bank of America or the coastal developers who are trying to ride climate change denial into law reading the V._C.. Made me remember Atwood also made it very difficult to see the difference between the rule imposed by Islamic fundamentalists abroad and the social agenda Christian fundamentalists in our society particularly with regard women when Paul Vallone the head of the gun rights group grassroots North Carolina ridicules concerns about juvenile gun deaths in this country free because as he carefully explains the majority of gun violence victims or black male teenagers I cannot dismiss them as easily where he sees the faces of thugs on our streets at our parks I see Trayvon Martin <hes> Reginald Dwayne bets and Oscar while my friend Ron were poor in Georgia and he learned how Bologna had to be sliced before it was fried. Sherman Alexi did on the reservation Alexi calls FRY Baloney and one of the bonds poor people whatever their ethnicity I share a pride Bologna and salmon cakes growing up and so I feel some sort of bond with Jamie Crawford and Thomas builds the fire and believe it or not with Oscar Oscar Oscar a search essential humanity of everyone trying to grow up to find his or her way to live fulfilled life in urban America or anywhere else in the post Colombian post colonial post Cold War world like union senior. I'll look at his brief life with well. Wonder I want to be a spiritless as Oscar while I get what Reginald going bets means when he says not to write about being white. I don't WanNa ride about being white or black red or balloon. The one percent of the ninety nine percent or which immigrants have somehow acquired the right to close the country they took from indigenous people to newer immigrants. I WanNa ride and talk about givers and takers those who embrace and those who fear those who think they must defend what they have and those who realized they must share it my status Gig these days is taking care of my great nephew while his mother teaches middle school mathematics I play a a lot of music born Taj Mahal Rigoletto of the ramones and Albert King. He's only nine months old but soon I'll start teaching him my blues right now. I'm reading Isabel Allende's the house of the spirits in which the old man Pedro Garcia tells his grandson Pedro Terceira the story of the hands who joined forces to confront the Fox. My great nephew is too young to share Allende's novel or to read Treasure Island or question of freedom but already I can read him some of the poems and soon to begin preparing him for the Pinochet's and Trujillo's and trump's of this world. I'll read him monroe lease the story of Ferdinand. Maybe I'll read tournaments Spanish all right David how I got the Red State Blues. I WANNA focus a minute on your opening passage. Which I think speaks too much in what's happening in the world today and I think it's sort of alienation affiliation affiliation <hes> was it? The people are defending others on facebook and in person simply because they have different political beliefs. I'm glad you ask that question. Landis I think that's because people do not have the face-to-face contact and you may have to stop me before I go on a roll here but when people do not communicate face to face with their neighbors neighbors when they're not involved in local things when a person is somebody that they can just <hes> right hateful comment about on social media just makes it too easy <hes> for them to not consider consider how much they have in common and I love the way that you blame this entire problem. When you're reading habits <hes> that is you can find a lot of the answers you know in books in an essays and yet <hes> people aren't reading as much these days are they? They are not in there and they're losing so much in every author that I mentioned in the pace and every book and that's just a personal slice the things that affected a lot <hes> a hurt Sherman Licey read at a Lenore Iran in the visiting rider series there and he talked about having a conversation with the cabdriver that drove him from the airport and that cabdriver ask Sherman Alexi. Why is there a war on poor people in this world? What have we done to deserve this and he was serious and it wasn't even a political statement? It was a <hes> just a comment on how he failed in the a Frog Baloney. Comment makes perfect sense <hes> my friend Ron and I talked about it that that it was this the fact that people who are poor have so much in common and yet are divided against each other. The fraud blowing is pretty good I when I when I got out not to get a school and I was trying to find a job didn't have any money live with somebody. We brought up some Baloney but we got this packages already sliced cheap kind but <hes> so <hes>. What do you think this piece added? It relate to you. It reminds me of not to talk politics with my family in New York and it is true. I mean I posted a political post host. When Jim Acosta was accosted November ninth and the White House briefing room and as a kid I looked up too aggressive reporters like Sam Donaldson and the more I found out about Jim Acosta Pasta? We both grew up in Annandale Virginia. Where a year apart in age he went to James Madison University? I went to Virginia Tech and I felt this kinship with him. I said to myself okay. I usually don't post political things but to me this this is you know being robbed of your voice and he's doing his job and a whole bunch of other things and I put it out there. I I got some support but a lot of meanness from people who said you're wrong. He it was being mean. He's a bad reporter. He's he's awful. He's he's he tells lies and I could relate very much to David just said I said I and one of those folks was my handyman. I said don't want making any ban pack in my house and I I wrote. I know what you're talking. I wrote a piece that appeared in the observer called fence or freeway and it was about the number of people know this but the history and Shaw there's a cemetery and these separate the black side of the cemetery African American from the white even used a fence. It must have been afraid that the spirits we're going to mingle and they can get over the fence somehow but <hes> it <hes> AH got some feedback on there that it was a great story until you got political at the end <hes> but anyway one thing about your piece. David is that <hes> in one respect. There's someone could talk about this being political in nature but yet humanity and kindness and embracing others shouldn't really have political sides and part of which I think you're trying to do here is get people to recognize that we don't need to talk about the other as much as when you talk about what we need to do for others. Am I getting close in Dave and just the idea that when I mentioned these stories it's because these are characters pitchers in fiction who became live in people that you identified with and you cared about their situation and we don't listen to each other stories we make assumptions and when we don't do that when when we contact each each other as people then everything becomes banner that has to happen around kitchen tables and then <hes> places where people gather face to face not just anonymously yeah and then at the end somebody might be reading long really enjoying it in your last line says well. Maybe I'll read it to him in Spanish and then someone with some opinions going to send a women the language here as English. You've got this. We're American. Ah You know so nice little ending their David patient yeah <hes> so. Did you get some <hes> things off your chest by writing. This little piece here did help it did ed but also luckily for it to work if it does work because I got past that because that's the thing in a nutshell we've gotta get past getting stuff off our chest and we've got to figure out what we have to share that other people might relate to so that's one of the lessons right exactly okay well David. We're going to segue here into something that <hes> I dunno also. We asked her family would they tell me that you are obsessed with Donald Party. Ask Okay so well. It's nothing to be sick of because <hes> we want our listeners to get introduced to it right already. No one thing for sure like well. We already knew she was weird. Although so it's an interesting store and we're we're gonNA have you do. There's necessarily that you've written this been published and the anthology exploration that right and it's <hes> you're gonna read just a couple of paragraphs from this and then we're going to <hes> take a break and you're going to sing a solemn. Oh that's right searching for paradise the Donner Party snow starvation cannibalism. Why does this tragedy from one hundred seventy? Two years ago obsessed me today. I'm fascinated with any any story about extreme weather foolish choices poor leadership unexpected heroes and people who dream about making a better life but die on the road to achieving it. I don't have an ancestor from the Donner party but my father's family okay who came to America in the seventeenth eighteenth centuries from England and Netherlands wanted everything donner's did new hope for their families while securing a strong financial future for their children and we want the same things in America today last last summer I fell headlong into Tamsin Donner. Who is Mrs George Donner the matriarch of the Donner Party who hit all the marks as I created a new folk song I wanted one with North Carolina ties? He's a tragic end a bold story of sacrifice and that's what a folk song is it makes meaning for from situations and for people who died in the prime of their life with Thomson Donner she wasn't educated schoolteacher who grew up in Massachusetts and who was also an amateur botanist and she loved her family but she also wanted something more than just being housewife and she had already experienced tragedy <hes> pity when her first family and Elizabeth City died from disease and she was making a second start and it's very American to have a second chance and she was on her second chance when she met George Donner in the eighteen thirties thirties I felt I could be friends with this woman and she knew it was a bad idea to follow the hastings cutoff which was a much touted route that only the Donner's took and the reason nobody else took it was is impassable. They blazed the trail and the only thing about the Houston hastings cutoff was that it helped the Mormons the next summer the Donner's had to blaze the trail through the way sach mountains and the Great Salt Lake Desert of Utah aw instead of following the normal trail which was the Oregon trail which did take them north in a way but by taking the hastings cutoff it costs them thirty days along with food energy energy motivation and oxen. She told them in that this was a bad idea after they had read the Field Guide Immigrants Guide Oregon and California which was <music> authored by Lansford Hastings a ambitious lawyer who was only twenty three at the time and he had never actually taken the trail himself but he looked on a map and he says well. It's a straight line looks good and put everybody in peril but nobody listened to her in the short cut costs them their lives much later down the way when they were trapped. In the Sierra Nevada Mountains Halloween Day eighteen forty six fix and their path was blocked. They could not go forward. They could not go back and rescue. Teams could not get to them from the West. The Sierra Nevada mountains are very short slope Thais high sloped on the east and slow be gentle on the West and they are known for their extreme weather which actually right now they are experiencing some extreme weather all right so you <hes> taking the story and you've done several things with it. We'll talk more about the story story but you've read an ESA. You've been a song which we're going to here in just a moment <hes> you're working on a book right on a novel that his aac futuristic historical I was going to ask you so you've taken a tragedy <hes> from from some remote Western mountainside and you've put it in space as right yeah right so the protagonists she's a descendant of William Eddie who is one of the heroes of the Donner Party. He lost asked his wife he lost his two kids and he becomes one of the major rescuers he actually rescues Elisa Donner and her two sisters Georgia and Francis and so there's a tie in between Tamsin Donner and William Eddie and it's going going to buy my book is going to be twofold point of view from William Eddie as he goes through his struggle and he also lies. He's a big liar and his great great great great great granddaughter who has of Mixed Race and she's she's. She doesn't know much about her own father who was really historian because he she grew up in the east in Myrtle beach and he grew up more he was living in California when she was a little girl so she grew up with her mom who's black and she identifies more as a black person than as a white person and so she's having a internal conflict as well about the history of manifest destiny and color and so that's that's one of the underlying themes to and. You're going to be she's going to be Mattie. She's going to be a rescue or she's GonNa lose people so that the the past will meet the future probably some poems to and some of the things that have donner connected to when we when we come back we're going to <hes> we're GonNa hear Alice Alice Sing Song that she wrote their release to this <hes> tragedy and we're also going to do some things that'll be fun. We're going to do a author authored author <hes> segment than a couple of poems to finish up so hang with us. Hey listeners. I'm here with Alexis career. She is the podcast host of fun with failure part of the Quincy podcast network. Hey Alexis. Thanks for having me so tell me what does this thing fun failure while our tagline is where we laugh with and at you about your flaws fears and failures so did you fail into this podcast I sort of did I'm a recovering perfectionist. I'm like oh CD. I hate to fail. I'm getting over it because it's not really healthy so I figured you know the more fun we have with it and the more we talk about the process that goes into something or a goal that we're trying to achieve instead of just focusing on the outcome so much in kind of helped me and other people on the way this is natural for you because you got a business call the pitch broth people make public speeches right yeah yeah. I'm a pitch coach of presentation coach in public speaking coach author yeah. I know I love my mom also owned a bookstore when I was growing up and she named after me I started working there. When I was fourteen years old so I love authors I live readers and I'm a huge fan of your podcast as well to book your book coming out cocoa yeah tough right because the dog yeah it's the first anthology it's the first volume and it's all about dogs that we have loved and lost listen to your podcast great? I guess we call it a radio Voice podcast exactly so tell us where we can find you sure while the website is fun with failure Dot Com you can follow us on twitter at fun fail podcast and you can subscribe on Apple podcasts or spotify. Thank you Charlotte. Charlotte readers podcast is a member of the twin city podcast network powered by Ortho Carolina for more information go to Queen City podcast network DOT COM listeners. We're back <hes> with Alice Osborne David Post the the musical portion of this episode astrology podcast <hes> Alice's going to sing song that she wrote <hes> called searching for paradise and it's <hes> it's the story of the daughter Party wagons filled with books at wonder. Do you husband <hes> gates in the fall build new school teaching math and the golden we sped west I and spring forty six left to learning opportunities men Rogan excellent your infected. Hey now you're strange. Herod is God <music> own the the this winter. Stop the Ska from fall. The Coal Coal Foam can hardly the he's much you know some dreams man to the girls in cloaks step bow dry untrue <hes> mom herb be along some day to gave you believed in me you know you're so long shiver and this garden under a blanket hit an warn dreaming are sweet Dada so save. Let shed the skin you know my pain haired God them around the the lettuce this winter stop the Ska from the coal from call by side board not on all sundry meant being silence harsh coal Oma snow eggs apples corna daughters grow up strong with them Paradise God them around up and and then this winter stop the sky from far from call Farewell Hood Bah why did it all Ma Dreams turn into lives I hear hummingbirds warm and Son Wall knows my care a lot of come <hes> flute for the Cabins Creek. Oh girl WHO's made it to paradise with me <music> all right Al thank you for that that was that was wonderful. I'm curious as to how you combine all these different genres of poetry are- pros and songwriting. Is that a natural for you or does it take some different skill sets what I've always wanted to be a singer since I was three and poetry happen when I was eighth in eighth grade and I was told I had a terrible voice and wouldn't musically and so I put aside my dream of singing but I always had this hunger and I got me some training and got me some lessons career gear there I go. I'm doing more songs than I am other things. I'm doing more. I'm doing more with music and I'm very happy doing so it feels very natural but I would not be in this place without without my poetry work and my craft and reading reading reading other people's work reading other people's poems listening to other songs and also spreading my interest of not just folk music but also blue grass old time and listening cues <hes> playing with other people and hanging around alarm songwriters so I can pick up different dumb techniques and see what's what makes a good Paul and what makes a good song what makes a good pros. It was peace and doing I love I love learning so it's pretty easy and fun for me. David you being a long time poet. What what do you mean in poetry? A former music get is. I'm just fascinated to hear. Are you making the transition <hes> our thank you start with the words and then go to the mallet to the music but as you become more of a musician has it happened the other way. Has I mean this song was starting ring with words and then you have to find what can you do to make it interesting and cutting versus and <hes> having some riffs but also having I was imagining it was a wagon wheel. It was this constant it was a train of this is happening. This is happening happening and what happens in the past. You can't look behind because you're weak and she she sees all this tragedy keeps going and it's it's her mantra. Keep going no matter what Tamsin written songwriting sort of in poetry sometimes you read it and there's a lot left to be interpreted songwriters do that too right I mean and of course ballots the you're telling stories kind of in a pros format I think John John Cryan is a great poet who just never wrote it down in reading poetry saying it exactly also condensing. You're taking what was going on that folks can relate to so maybe you don't really care for my versus. You don't care about the story but we love love. The refrain right okay okay. Can you get that. Can you understand that something he or she wants it to stop and she also wants to to <hes> she's caught because she's caught for my first. <hes> go at it. I my line was I'm trading my life for three which was trading because you're trading post. They saw a lot of interacted with traders on the way to the Sierra Nevada mountains and I didn't want her. It didn't seem right because trading my life four three sounded like she was cannibalizing herself her kids and I was like no that's not that's not it. <hes> it was the reason she stayed put and cared for her kids. She also cared for her husband and she's hoping the timing would be right where her kids would be rescued than her husband would <hes> <hes> die humanely and she didn't want to euthanize them. She just would die humanely and she would be by his side when he passed and then she would be rescued or then she could go off and help her kids. It's it didn't seem selfish at the time she was trying to do both and honor both her husband and her children says Oh sure walking Donner wikipedia page so in in your in your story Don reported the the monster is the weather now David. You've had sort of session with a monster of a different kind that was made famous in the eighteen hundred right. That's great. Tell us about that. I assume you're talking about Frankenstein. Yeah I have <hes> taught the novel for many years and one of the things that I know you'll appreciate us. We frequently had mock trials break. During the low. Bring the lawyers got to do that and I want to defend the monster yeah <hes> he would often despite some of the terrible things he did you could you could in fact get him off Landis. I'm sure reasonable doubt think more of Yeah anyways to defend his actions and personally not too many in my opinion to defend Victor Frankenstein's actions so when I play judge I had to be very careful. I never recused myself health but no it was a fascination because that novel as much relevance to Nile in what we dealing with just tell us about the wail <hes> UNDIS- fascinated that an eighteen year old oh girl could have written the original science fiction novel or it could be considered the original manual for how to not parent children or warnings about what what science will lane to if we don't temperate with some common sense and some ethical considerations cloning for example cloning for example <hes> you know we're talking about a story where somebody brings a child into the world and runs away which is one way of looking at it or somebody who wants to see what they can accomplish without considering the consequences. There's just no no way as long as human nature is what it is to get away from the relevant side of it in recent years when I encountered <hes> the story of Henrietta lax and the idea that you know we now have in her case she was an African American woman whose sales were harvested at Johns Hopkins Skins. Many years ago have continued to live on long past our day <hes> and some of the implications of that story fascinated me as wail. I'm glad to obsess poets. No I've been pros riders on the show today but you have to be kind of obsessed to be a writer. Don't you absolutely and that's why a lot of I teach writing. I am an editor I coach people and I should have it in my uploading process when new folks come to me. Are you obsessed. Are you crazy because if you're not get OUTTA here because the're not obsessed with it then you can't expect the reader to be obsessed and you can't expect your coach to be obsessed. I mean I wanNA help but you have and I found I'm so lucky that I found this subject matter because it hits on everything that I care about family <hes> country faith heroism allies sadness anger frustration and the founding of America so I guess that's sort of leads right into the authored author some kind of a tip. If you're going to write thought something that you you have a real interest in and you will spur your imagination so anyway the authored author segment. Let's let's do that now and season three here. We're involving authors from seasons wanted to to to sorta come back. Even they're not sitting here to help us with some <hes> some questions and I've got <hes> a couple of questions here from an campanella and appeared in season. Two of the PODCAST is the author four collections elections poetry and she's the twice recipient of the poet Laureate Award from the North Carolina Poetry Society has written a wonderful Memoir Motherhood lost and found here a couple of questions now. I'll throw him at the both of you starting with David. How does Poetry Fiji Wow? I told you these weren't going to be easy questions. What's great question it? It gives me an opportunity to figure out what I want to say and what I'm feeling and you know that sounds like the answer I might have given when I was a high school student which is a little scary but it's still holds true. It's an opportunity for me now. Apply with words and there's there's this enormous power that you have to choose words and pace words and put them together and Mike sounds come out of your mouth that can move people and when it happens it's wonderful and you can also think about how those words playing other people's heads which is pretty awesome and that leads to another question that she has. I'll throw this one alice she <hes> and ESCA I she says poetry is often a compression of wine which how does that compression add to the tension in your palms. It's another great question I would say you have to find the biggest conflict and the biggest need need and so for instance in in the in the song the biggest one was how can this. How can the cold stop? How can we get Outta here and there's other considerations but those have to go away because you can't add them to the song or to the poems you have to think about how can I say enough without over saturating the peace and chewing the food for the reader? And then <hes> weakening the piece by not honoring the readers intelligence but still have enough there where everything's compressed so what I do is I load up the title and I load up a title saying Okay it's Aliens Ripley and if you know Ripley that's Ellen Ripley from the Aliens Franchise and then I put the name of the ship and then some people may say well. That's too hard. I'll have to do some research but then there's a lot of folks who say well. That's exactly what I needed because I wanted to be specific and I was taught. Don't be general be specific and you're going to find your more authentic audience member although I've had frustration because I was authentic and as direct and detailed is could be in my most recent poetry Book Heroes Without Capes but I turned off a lot of people who said I don't get the sci-fi thing and I'm not GonNa read your poetry so that was frustrating but you know what I didn't I wanted to do it was very happy with my right for yourself for myself right so here's one David from that. I think <hes> right down your alley. She says poetry seems to turn off so many any high school in college students. Could it be taught differently in order to foster. I love poetry number one. You've got to bring in <hes> some of contemporary poetry that that <hes> people don't realize clauses out there and you've got to embrace and enjoy the power of spoken word because people love language they love the power of expressing themselves and if they are well given an opportunity to explore language to read poetry to share it they will love it. It is going to happen <hes>. I'm fascinated by slam poetry I have I'm going to share a secret desire. I would love to be in a slam competition and I'm trying to rehearse my pieces that tell us tell us what slam poetry slam poetry is a combination of drama aw and and Poetry Recitation <hes> It is performance of your poetry to an audience that is going to embrace it gave you a reaction or not embrace it. It's exciting. It's it's daring. It makes poetry what ought to be <hes> because it's a spoken for him. It's not meant to be dead on the page and <HES> and I'm fascinated with instagram poets who have thousands of listeners a raiders zone are so we got <hes> two more questions this this one's coming from Randal Jones Randall appeared in season two of the podcast North Carolina author several nonfiction books couldn't footsteps Daniel Boom before they're heroes kings mountain from time to time and North Carolina and the editor of <hes> exploration where your piece <hes> appears Alice and so I'm GonNa give he only had one question so it must be it was real important to him <hes> and he talked about it <hes> when he sent it to me about how how he thought about it <hes> and the question is when did you know what was the moment that you knew that you were a writer was it an instant wasn't over time. How did you know struck by save probably may have happened before but I can? I can see I was fourth grade nine years old and classmate heather or she had her aunt Mrs were whoever come and come to our class and talk about her children's Book and she was an author and I wanted to be just like heather ores aunt I mean that was and she talked about publishing and she talked about finding an editor. She talked about our editor went through and and made the corrections Shinzo made it a better book and how she shopped it and and all that process and this would have been nineteen eighty-three. I knew at that moment that I wanted to be writer but then I knew that it also would be hard and I was struggling with figuring out okay. Is this something I want to do or or what do I have to do is or what I feel like. My parents want me to do is have a a math business career and that was the biggest struggle I had in my young adulthood and carried on either. Take money or follow your artistic dreams right. I really wish I would have had <hes> Heather's aunt guide me as my mentor. I wish I would have seen her again that would have but I knew at that moment. That's what I wanted to be and they probably happened before because I was doing weird things like like producing newsletters when nobody told me to or I was reading or I was putting stage plays on in my parents bedroom. I was thinking like a writer I was reading movie reviews. I was reading Daas boots movie review and paying attention to the movies that I couldn't go to like officer two gentlemen well. Why does that movie and so I was interested in fillers Dr Arnn? Why is that movie review and why are they so against that so I was reading a lot of the paper and Dear Abby and movie reviews where my favorite br pieces in the paper? What about you David <hes>? When did you know you were a writer well? I'm going to answer the question with what I'm like to say. I'm GonNa Answer it Alice. You will love this story. I think I was in Grad School U._N._C.. Charlotte and I WANNA give credit to the Light Julian Mason who just passed away last year. Julia Mayson came into graduate school English class with an advertisement for Sanskrit which was the is the literary magazine at U._N._C.. I thought okay I sent in three Poland's. They took two of them. I thought this is great. This is going to go on and on <hes> and of course I soon learned that those kinds of acceptance is very rare but have to give him him credit because he <hes> encouraged me to do that and even it's. It's some kind of it's the reason people are compulsive gamblers. You have a little bit of success again and I never you know I had been for years without thinking of this being a possibility and that got me going on that were to Godawful poems but they took them in the learned a few new tricks over the years. We all have all homes we I would like to forget but they got us where we are. We got to fun poems left. They're both short <hes> one from each of you <hes> Dave we're going to start with us. It's a alice last sign. Are you GONNA sing this force David resistant it. Thank you for asking okay well then then give us the title and I mean Alice has got a guitar here. You're welcome I mean she'll probably let you alice. Let's talk afterwards about whether this could be set amuse. Okay <hes> this is Chuck Norris and Jesus. My resumes Thespian consists of just to rawls a cameo in silhouette and a black Stetson and Pearl button black shirt jaw all squared and arms Akimbo for video. Some students of mine were making and a recurring role each summer in road and barefooted for the Children Vacation Bible School. When I mentioned the former my listeners CEO yes they see the resemblance but when I mentioned the latter I'm usually met with silence over the years I fed multitudes walked on water? Calm storms patiently reminded the fellows to feed my sheep Ephraim gone raised and acquaintance or two from the dead and manage to navigate the steps without tangling my feet in the him of my robe and using my father's name in vain in front of a circle of six year olds. I'm not allowed to turn their kool-aid into wine. I had nightmare once that nailed it bore. Hey Story Gospel according to mark with children of the corn. They cornered me in the Organ Loft and dragged me out to across made of landscape timbers. I woke myself just as they were all grabbing their tiny fisher price ice hammers with real nails Clinton the corners of their miles the way they'd all seen their fathers do after that I was most grateful that in Bible school we gloss over the finale of the lambs experience. Perhaps I'll be allowed to age out of the role and yet whatever it might say about our choices of figures to revere just know that anyone with whom I've ever shared. This seems much more impressed that I have played the man who his followers say went up Niagara Falls calls in a cardboard box so had this vision Gulliver's travels a little bit with Fisher Price Hammers headed out there. You know they're strapping you down. <hes> what were you wearing at the time where you and your Jesus out fair you and your Chuck north-south ourselves. Oh that was my Jesus. Okay now. You do have a little bit of Chuck Norris thing going here you know with the beard and everything so part of your pastor not tell us about <hes> you know <hes> the Chuck Chuck Norris part of the <hes> the career did not go very far that was that was a dead end but <hes> but you get in being invited back to Vacation Bible School yes <hes> where did this. I mean we're this idea. This is two two entirely different people and personalities here Chuck Norris and and Jesus how how do they get together one place. I think I'll just leave that to people's imagination nation not sure I WANNA go there. I might say something that I might have to answer. You must take take back okay. We believe that align then it as a fun pace alright alice you got one <hes> here. That's <hes> it Cata speaks to some of the issues that <hes> David wrote about in his bibliography peso. I'll let you do the title and reinforce bottom drawer dad torn to my room without knocking drunk. I'll rip that book apart. If I see it again it wouldn't be the first or last time he dad handle anything he didn't approve of. He saw the photos of dogs and marchers so I hit the library book in my bottom drawer among the too short jeans and worn out socks six eleven years after Martin Luther King Junior's death. I'm investigating the firehoses Dobermans Black and white people holding hands Dr King had to keep changing his shoes and spent over a week in jail even even in third grade I understood. He fought for something bigger than him and he died for it like J._F._k.. R._F._K.. And John Lennon my grandmother used to tell us about our noble Scottish and and English Ancestry Bishops Generals and slave owners how we are better than everyone else. Is it my fault. I'm hated at school. I saw the book into my backpack covered down. I know I'm different when dad says they need a strong hand. Keep them in line. Who did he'd mean? JEWS LACKS FEMINISTS LIBERALS DEMOCRATS ME Alice <hes> what was going on in your life at the time you get this. This particular always been writing this in my since it happened and we're does this. Go come from in this passage or are you feeling some of the guilt from your ancestors yeah that I'm studying my Dad's side on his dad's mother side and dad's father side of they were part of genocide so we have the genocide of Africans and Enslaves and that's my dad mother's side and then my dad's father's side we have the genocide or not as much <hes> they they participated in the Indian boarding schools and there was a whole generation of them they were teaching and teaching in quotes. The Indian kids in Tomo Wisconsin Awesome and I do research and the more I researched I got emails that were shut down and some websites that were closed as soon as I started asking some questions so there's some some weirdness going on to this day when I started asking questions about out my ancestors and not that long ago we're only talking nineteen o three nineteen nineteen seventeen so these are it's. It's getting quite interesting but I I was. I was feeling us because it really happened to me to destroy a book is sacrilege and he was ready to destroy this library book and that's why I learned about the the marches and we learned a little bit about at school because I went to a very progressive elementary school that was very diverse and they took me out of it to go into it wasn't not into a private school which was not predominantly white. Actually it was also diverse because <hes> and but it just a different kind of diversity we had people from all over the world versus being black or Hispanic and it was so it was also cool that I was in a different environment government <hes> later it wasn't white so I learned a lot in that in that in that place to but we did not talk that was a classical education. When I moved to the private school <hes> we did not talk about contemporary issues like they did in my elementary preschool which we also talked about Vietnam? We had a fellow who had just survived Vietnam. I'm he's Vietnamese talking about what it was like on the ground and <hes> it was a raw experience and I wanted to have capture some of that when I when I started this poem and Albert Dot Dan Albert Body from Conway South Carolina helped me revises palm so thank you David. You're over there. Nodding your head is she's talking did did you do this poem relate to you in some way. One reason I'm not in my head is I'm thinking about the different political topics that have come out in our conversation today but I'm thinking about how Alice I want you to agree or disagree. Please poetry so driven by curiosity not that I know a little bit about your work a little bit about mine. We have all these issues that are coming up but they're coming from the fact that we as poets were curious. We write about experience. We put things together and I want people to understand. Is this where our experiences taken us and the things that we care about <hes>. We don't have an agenda. We've just poetry's led US disease and that's pretty remarkable. I think it's it's so honest. Neither of US has an ax to grind. We've just been led to these places and what we want to speak about our agenda here. Shala readers podcast is to have authors give voice to the written words and Y'all all done exactly that today not only <hes> by reading your work but by sing it as well so <hes> on a thank both of you for coming today before before he signed off <hes> Alice. Where can people find? You've got a website I do. It's Alice Osborne Osborne. DOT COM AND OSBORNE IS O. S. B. O. R. N.. The simplest felling that you can find Osborne. Were you a cheerleader to not give it give give us a David Cohen find you well. I'll mention a couple places my book slow steady and <HES> can be found at main street riots website along with the newest Cadillac Anthology which I have a apiece in and you can also find Alice's books there by the way and so main street rags excellent. I'm hoping that sometime after this podcast airs that there might be cackle light reading still going on in North and South Carolina I've been lucky enough to have pieces couple places online rise up review crack the spine rockdale review so I don't have a website but Google may you can find other stuff yeah yes. I'm out there. We'll have had a lot of fun today. I hope you all time here today all right that's it for today. The author giving voice to the written words next week so young adult author Lisa Williams Clive aw least will be reading essay short stories and experts from our latest novel one week of you. What's the tricked riding Betaine lives? Keep your brain at high school mood one week. Have you Lisa to just now with a you mistake on young love. If you liked our show please tell your friends and please leave a review on Apple. podcast reviews are like the gasoline to drive traffic to the podcast subscribe to the podcast which is free on apple podcast or wherever you like to get your pocket our social media he links if you're into that sort of thing our website showery podcast dot com if you have feedback or an idea for an author to be on the show you can email us her contact page on the website and authors welcome to Smith to be on the show the author page you sign up for email mel list at our website. Thank you for that. We will give you free. E Book work a fiction written by your host by the way if you do sign up for email list. We promise not to spam you that takes way too much time. We just send you periodic updates about the show.

David Alice Alice David North Carolina Donner Party writer Steve McQueen Sierra Nevada Mountains editor Charlotte Landis America Elvis Charlotte Charlotte Amazon Tamsin Donner Chuck Norris Victor Frankenstein Caitlyn
55: "Spooky Stories" Week

Feedback with EarBuds

06:56 min | 1 d ago

55: "Spooky Stories" Week

"Hello and welcome to feedback with ear buds the podcast arm of near Buds podcast collective. I'm Maryelle your host and the founder of ear buds. This episode covers the week of October nineteen through twenty, third, twenty. Twenty Ear Buds podcast collective is listening movement. We send an email every Sunday that contains a theme and five podcast episodes on that theme and each week's podcast picks are curated by a different person anyone can carry to list. On this episode of feedback with Ear Buds, I'll share our five podcast episode recommendations of the week and some information about those episodes will then share some sponsor information as well as some extra podcast related tidbits. This week's episode and newsletter are sponsored by ALP you're on the go audio learning APP. We're also sponsored by Harry stories a podcast about scary real life stories told by the people who lived them. More on our sponsors later in the show. First up are ear, buds podcast collective recommendations. Go. This week's theme comes to us from Shane McClellan and is called spooky stories. Here's why chose this theme he writes Hey. My name is Shane McClellan. I'm the creator of the files podcast and theme I chose is spooky stories because while October the spookiest time of the year. Here, are the episodes chosen by Shane for this week's theme along with short descriptions of each episode. The first episode comes to us from old gods of Appalachia and is called prologue. It's nine minutes long. Welcome to our APPALACHIA. We're hearts are good. Hands are. And no one wants to talk about what sleeps beneath us. The next episode comes to us from the cue files and is called the Donner Party, it's twenty three minutes long. This is the horrifying story of the Donner Party told like never before. Next up is scare you sleep and the episode is called Cannibals it's thirty seven minutes long. Spooky soothing unnerving bedtime stories. The next episode comes to us from stories with Sapphire and is called Dula for death. It's twenty nine minutes long. Listening for unique perspectives on death. and. The last episode of the week comes to us from euphemistic and it's called a vampire feeds. It's thirty three minutes long. Here's the description real vampires the draining of blood, the feeding on others and the quest to keep others fed. Those are the episodes chosen by Shane for this week's theme Spooky Stories. You can follow along with the discussion of this week's podcast episodes by using the Hashtag spooky pods. Each week in our newsletter are curator's have a chance to shout out something that they love or want to promote. It's called the Self Promo section they can shout out a project they're working on a company they admire a movie they really enjoyed or anything. Here's what Shane wants to tell us about he writes I love independent creators and all things spooky and weird it provides a nice break from the mundanity of life. But the real world is pretty scary for a lot of folks right now too. I hope you'll consider joining me as voter this November. Shane also remarks that aside from the first episode this week, all of them are true stories. This week's newsletter podcasts are made possible by our sponsors, ALP and Harry Stories. Out is you're on the go learning APP learn product management, creative thinking principles of finance marketing, and more. Made specifically for listening, based in depth learning. Go from zero to hero on the go. That's APP a P., find it in the APP store. This week's newsletter is also brought to us by Harry Stories on January Sixteenth Nineteen sixty-nine, a fighter pilot and his back Cedar were shot down over the border of northern Vietnam Laos. The series of events that followed are almost beyond belief. The story unfolds through dramatic firsthand accounts of the veterans involved against the background of sounds and original recordings that bring the history alive listen to Harry stories now wherever you got your podcasts. And a shoutout to another one of our sponsors buds sprout bus sprout is the best podcast hosting site in the game if you're looking to start a podcast and who isn't these days buzzed, proud is your best bet they make it super easy to submit your show to all of the podcast platforms. You can easily create sharable soundbites and other funds, social media images. We'll have a link to buzz sprout in the show notes this episode, and if you sign up for us out with that link, you get an Amazon Gift Card. This week's podcast spotlight is on Geo Pats podcasting. Do you like experimenting with your podcast in this show Steph and her guests talk with podcasters around the world about how they do what they do you'll be inspired by their creativity passion and projects. Learn more about Gio. PATS podcasting on our website ear buds podcast collective dot org. You can also apply to have your podcast spotlit right there on the website. We've also got some fun new blog posts up on our website to prepare for Halloween. We've got post called five scary podcasts to get you excited for Halloween. This'll pair very nicely with Shane's episode picks this week. You can find that blog post up on our website at ear buds podcast collected dot org. It's written by Cassie Joseph Ob, who is the CEO and founder of violet our media, a premium horror podcast network. Head on over to our social media to find links to the episodes that we mentioned on twitter at ear buds, pod call, and we're on instagram and facebook at ear buds podcast collective. You can sign up to receive our PODCAST recommendation newsletter at ear buds podcast collective DOT ORG it goes out every Sunday night. Thank you to Daniel Tariq who mixes and edits this podcast. Our newsletter is edited by ABC Lonski and our theme music by Matsudo I write and produce the show. My name is Ariel Nissim that. We'll be back next week with more podcast recommendations. If you like what we're doing with our newsletter and podcast, please do let us know by leaving a review on apple or comment on cast box. It really does help people find the show. We'll see you next week until then keep on listening to podcasts by.

Shane McClellan Harry Stories ALP Donner Party founder Appalachia APPALACHIA apple Ariel Nissim Daniel Tariq Amazon ABC Lonski Sapphire Cassie Joseph Ob Steph twitter Cedar
Marc McClure Supergirl 1984

The Cave - A DC Universe Podcast

13:43 min | 6 months ago

Marc McClure Supergirl 1984

"That Man I am C. Three Po human sidewalk relations. Hi mammoth tapping from one. Thirty at Atlanta's sanctuary. You're listening to Sifi talk with Tony. Collado enjoy Marc McClure. Made his Marcus Jimmy Olsen Richard Donner and Richard Lester versions superman and reprised Jimmy again supergirl in Nineteen eighty-four. That film is available on Blu Ray and he sat down roundtable style with my fellow. Reporters me at podcast. Stor at San Diego Comic Con Twenty Eighteen to talk about this film but also Great Memories of Richard Donner era made their way into the conversation. Margaret closing the house talking about Nineteen eighty-four. Because somebody told me it was July nineteen thousand nine hundred for the they had the royal premiere for supergirl over in London. July nineteen thirty four years exactly today. The date signed up the whole thing lineup. Which is pretty trippy here. Every eighteen years works. You guys know that so much that we can. If we get out of bed we can learn. Trick is getting out of bed. What has changed for you to do that. Supergirl movie then to working now. Well you just stand in front of a green screen these days. I guess you know when you don't even have the the practical. I remember when we did the first superman movie. It was all this. London crew Redid supergirl in London. And we did the superman fill all of London Pinewood Studios Shepperton. These guys are just kind of making it up at the time. I mean it was one of those where you know. How are we gonNA get away with this and I remember the first day I left California and went to London? Put me in a car from the airport. I went to shepherd in studios and I walked into a huge sound stage and they were just doing the shot with the Promo of Superman where you kinda fly through the fortress of solitude flies by I walked in the first thing I see. Everybody starts clapping. That was the moment. They realize we're going to be able to do this. And just in my life man I tell you when I'm grateful I'm grateful person and I've been in some moments where it's like without knowing in at the time you're somewhere right now that cows and that was one of them. That's one thing that I could because I don't remember too much. I remember that moment and I remember it because it actually meant something. You know it really. It was the start of something brought us to where we are today really you. You had a flying moment with Chris. Yeah Yeah Yeah but one of the greatest moments In that particular thing I remember with Christopher. Even we're up on up on the wires above the sound stage and I think it was. It was the hoover dam sequence any kind of asked me at that time. If I could just try to be like Jimmy try to act like Jimmy. 'cause I'm up there and we're rambling and I'm rambling you know. I'm just a kid from California you know and I'm just having a good time and Chris has got a big responsibility and while we were up there. If you can just help me out by being Jimmy and from that moment on I gave him. Jimmy was such a gift for him to do that for me. Tell you said like to be the only recurring actor from the previous Superman films in supergirl. I you know. I didn't even think about that but I I kind of I think I realized I was to carry over and so I've been hearing that Chris was maybe going to do it and in the movie. They said he was in some far off galaxy him. Well somebody had to do it and I think what he ended up doing state of the Hilton took it as a vacation. And you know rush back but As I remember seeing Chris for the first time in that effort of if you guys got to go up on the wires or just C- Christopher even that outfit off he was superman. And I'm I don't know in my lifetime if anybody's going to take that spot I've been hoping for it. I love wonder woman in wonder woman. Did it for me as far as film that was comparable But Christopher Reeve looked like superman he was the guy came out of nowhere. I never saw his face before he was Subaru. Same thing happened with Helen when I went into. It's like who's going to be in Christopher Reeve. They were trying to get successor. Salone they were thinking of Robert. Redford horrible. I mean they were just thinking we gotta get a name to put the outfit on and that's really the opposite of what you should do. Can I remember seeing Hell and she was it? She was super go. She looked good. She was fresh strong and I felt I felt very comfortable with her and she was a she was a good actress and what. I tried to bring with any of my acting. Not necessarily just superman but I want to be believable. I WANNA be a believable character. I think when you do anything in the Comic Book World. You have to be believable. Don't you don't have to tell jokes. Just let the material get you through the material. Be Funny but you just have to be believable. I think that's that's a trick with anything and I've been lucky. I retired maybe five six years ago because I thought I can't keep getting away with because one of the very things that you guys just tell you his. I never wanted to get caught act. I kinda thought I'm pushing my luck. I went to military school my whole life when I got out. I had an opportunity because we knew a lady that was aged. Said you want to try it. I said yeah try it and just things kept going and as Mike Career kept going. I kept thinking. I don't want to get caught. Not Knowing what I'm I don't know even know how it got him but I am here not a question I liked. Hated actually what about Batman v Superman and Jimmy Olsen got killed? I didn't even know he's Jimmy Olson. I don't think they even knew Jimmy white either missing with Jimmy tonight or no. He's such a great character. He such a part of your lowest slightly. Don't what are you messing around with? What are you doing bud? You got guys that people love to me. Also such an original character so wholesome. We saw Connie so he's just who he is. He's he's a real person. Why are you going to get rid of him? Put Him in there. I don't care where you put them in there though. Let the audience. He's just I mean. How old is he now? Seventy five years. I'm the senior. Jimmy Olsen Laws Jack Larson who was great Jimmy Wales and what a great guy and he looked he looked like trivial. Elson all the way to the end. I'm not quite sure if I still look like my Jimmy Bud. Say there's mark or there's Jimmy but Jack Larson was such a great guy and boy did he have Hollywood stories. He was he was a cool cat. I don't like that question. He tells us about the casting process for him. Has Jimmy I was working on. A houseboat is living on a houseboat in Marina del Rey. And I got the call and I went up into met Dick Donor. Tom Banquets and install master. Who's the casting director and I walk into the interview in They say well. What are you doing? What are you to say? Well I'm living on a houseboat. Life is pretty cool. You know and you know I didn't know the business at all when you use. I could if I got the job cool. If I didn't get the job cool. There was nothing riding on it for me and he always wanted to live on dicked on or would always want to live on a house dog or was one to live on a boat. So as we talked about bunks and at the end of it. Twenty minutes I get up and I start walking out any sued by Jimmy Olsen is. I said Goalie Mr Cat because I did go. Jimmy Olsen wasn't the laughed and I left. It was like about three months later and I had forgotten about three months later. I got a call back saying they WANNA see again and I remember coming into the office and there was a guy sitting there that everybody would know and you know. I'm always talking to everybody. I said are you up for Jimmy goes no I'm up for Winnie the Pooh for ten minutes. We just both sat for quite because I don't really the attitude so anyway we just quiet but anyway I walked into the office. Dick Honor said. I just want to remember what you look like. I got the part and weekly off the London. Doing the I read. I probably would have blown it. Who knows but you have to read. I just had to be there at the right place at the right. Time was the guy in the office Marlon Brando What I did see Marlboro. And he gave. What was it like three thousand pounds to each crew member that worked on Superman? He made a lot of I forget. I think he made five million for the first one. Maybe the second one. But he got took took care of the crew and he was a crooked. I mean like I said I got to. I got to be with people in my lifetime and I never took pictures. I didn't think much of it at the time but when I look back it's like how did I get here? No doubt I'm sure everybody. How'd you guys get here? I know these helped you rhythms passes. Those helped you but without those pads is your outside. Yeah this is a weekend with that passed. This is really. I was here a long time ago with Superman and it was. It was a lot smaller. This has gotten a little cuckoo a little anxiety man. There's a lot of people hear his take on director. Richard Donner on the Superman films. I sat next to really assault clean a little bit ago a screening at the grauman's Chinese theater and he started talking about how he fired. Donna and Wifi hired Dick Donner Inboard. I WANNA say dig on is the only reason quiet. He was it and for whatever they said. If Superman was a failure they would have kept him also but it was a success so they replaced with Richard. Listen Dick Donors one of those guys where you can he brings you on the set and you find moments you just Improv and you find human moments and then you shoot. Richard Lester took over and we came back and Margot Margaret Koetter. Who We just lost. She was the really the only person that spoke up against the whole thing. Because I really didn't know Christa Freidan speak up. An e could've but Margot kidder was the only one that really spoke up for. Dick but we came on the set after we came back from the premier in in Washington. And we GONNA wasn't going to be. Richard Lesser was the new director. Unless had already been. They're kind of hanging around. Because there's all kinds did something with them and not money. But we come on the set and there'd be an ex they're in lesser would go. You'RE GONNA stand on this act. There's three cameras you're GONNA stand there. Say That stand there and say that and it just became like even readers. We don't even you just need somebody and it all from that moment on it. Got a little different in love. The sequel microphone found With the Donner Cut. That's the true sequel sequel. It's just a Beautiful Geoffrey unsworth. It's just a it's just beautiful and it's just a dictator was signed for seven films. I was signed for everybody signed for seven films at the at the beginning. And we'll we'll just never know you know it's just like in life we'll never know what could have been and God bless Christopher Reeve you know in a lifetime to be superman into these superman and then end up in a wheelchair in in in a big big way. God bless to feel that they could've Kind there was a lot of gold mined with Jimmy in Superman and Lois. Oh yeah should really wasn't oh it would have been there. It would have been there if if the universe wanted it that way you know because it was all set to go and we had all the the writing everybody in that room in one thousand nine hundred seventy seven was all meant to be. Everybody was at the right place at the right turn. It was a magical time to be with filmmakers. Doesn't get better. Whatever happened to that guy? If you ever say anything business owners reason why anybody's is about supergirl. Nineteen eighty-four is what it is. Yes it was formula throwing through right down to the villains but as a piece of Super Nostalgia Fan would want to happen. Marc McClure was the right Jimmy Olsen for the time he did the character proud. Stay Super. This is joanie tomato. Hi I'm George. Decay and I listened to Sifi Talk.

Jimmy Jimmy Olsen London Christopher Reeve Richard Donner Chris Jimmy white Marc McClure Jimmy Olson Jimmy Bud Richard Lester Jimmy I Margot Margaret Koetter Sifi director California Jimmy Wales London Pinewood Studios Sheppe C. Three Po Blu Ray