20 Episode results for "Donnelly"
February 6, 2020: Black Donnelly Family Funeral
"I today is Thursday February. Sixth Twenty Twenty on this day in eighteen eighty five members. The Irish Canadian family known as the Black Donnelley's were laid to rest and the priest presiding over the funeral may have been involved loved in their murders. Welcome today in true crime apart. CAST original channel due to the graphic nature of today's crimes listener discretion is advised extreme. Caution is advised for listeners under thirteen. Today we're covering the funeral of one of Canada's most notorious families the black Donnelley's let's go back to the bill township in Ontario on February very sixth eighteen eighty precisely at noon Sitting in the front row of Saint Patrick's Church Jenny Donnelley's sobbed uncontrollably. Her Brothers Patrick Robert Art and William stoically stared forward. Their eyes glued to the alter the parish priest Father John Connolly solemnly solemnly stood before them as the pallbearers carried two coffins down the aisle one of the coffins contain the body of the Donnelley's brother John. The other was full of bits of bone and ashes. That used to be their father James. Their mother Joanna their brother Thomas Thomas and their cousin bridget. The donnelley's were one of the most well-known families in biddle township in the wake of such a tragic event the church was packed to the Gills. But it's hard to say. How many were there to mourn? And how many were there to celebrate operate James and Joanna Donnelly immigrated to Ontario from Ireland sometime between eighteen. Forty two you and eighteen forty-six like many of their compatriots. Life had been hard for the Donnelley's though never wants to back down from a fight they were known as Black Feet Irish Catholics. Who Refuse to fight against Protestants? The stigma of being black feet long with a devastating famine was enough to to Dr James and Joanna to Canada. They hoped that life in their new country would provide them with better opportunities by eighteen. Forty seven they had settled in Ontario's biddle township with their two young sons James Junior. And and William over the next decade the Donnelly clan continued to grow as Joanna gave birth to five more sons and one daughter. Farming was hard unglamorous work but it paid off by the mid eighteen fifties. The Donnelly farm was truly prospering. But things took a turn for the worse in eighteen. Fifty Seven Patriarch James. James Donnelly killed his neighbor. Patrick Farrell the two men had become bitter enemies after a land dispute during a community. Barn raising things got heated and James fatally struck feral with a hand spike. He spent the next seven years in the Kingston Penitentiary. While James was behind bars. Joanna Donnelly taught her sons how to fend for themselves that education included fighting drinking and stealing. They they burned down. Barnes killed neighbor's cattle and constantly found themselves on the wrong side of the law when their father was released from prison in eighteen. Sixty five. The boys behavior didn't change move. Anything James encouraged it within hours of his release James and his Suns Burn Down The barn belonging to one of the men who had testified against him as the years passed. Donnelly's settled down a bit in the early eighteen seventies. Many of the boys started families and settled into more respectable careers but but they continued to feud with neighbors drawing more and more of them into their chaos. Finally in June of eighteen seventy nine father John Connolly of Saint Patrick's church decided the violence had to stop to that end end. He established the biddle peace society. Every family that joined the group agreed to have their house searched for stolen items and illegal contraband turbanned the Black Donnelley's refused the invitation. The society didn't take kindly to the SNOB. Two months later a splinter linter group of Peace Society members called the vigilance committee was formed. Most of them blamed the Donnelly family for the areas problems and on February be wary fourth eighteen eighty. The vigilance committee decided to eradicate the problem. Once and for all shortly after midnight a mob descended on the Donnelly. Homestead James Senior. Joanna Thomas and Bridget Donnelly were all brutally murdered for good measure. The vigilance committee burned down their house. As well and the violence wasn't done yet around around two thirty a M. The mob stormed William Donnelly's home when William's brother. John went outside to confront them. The armed men killed him thinking they had killed. William Day ended the massacre two days later. Many of the men who had murdered the Donnelley's attended attended the funeral but so far little if any action had been taken against them the town constable himself was believed to have been a perpetrator betrayer. Some even suspected that Father Connolly had taken part in the violence or at the very least encouraged it but there was one one thing. They hadn't accounted for a witness to the massacre and he wanted to make sure the murderers were held accountable. Coming up. Law Enforcement Descends upon the bill township. Now back to the story. For decades the so-called Black Donnelley's had feuded with their neighbors and Ontario's Bill Township and on February fourth eighteen eighty. A local group called the vigilance committee burnt down the Donnelly farm killing five members of the family in the process. US Two days later the murder Donnelley's were laid to rest in Saint Patrick's church many members of the vigilance committee including the local constable constable attended the service but so far no action had been taken against them however someone had survived the fiery fiery attack a thirteen year. Old Farmhand named Johnny O'Connor was staying at the Donnelley's farm on the night of the massacre. He had promised to take care care of their animals when they went into the town the next day he had seen the constable James Carroll during the attack along with several other members of the vigilance Angela Committee but even with an eye witness none of the townspeople were brave enough to accuse the town constable of multiple homicides besides however that didn't mean the law wasn't coming for him. The violent murder of five people attracted the attention attention of Canada's national law enforcement most likely coming from the Larger City of London Ontario detectives arrived on the scene shortly after the funeral general after the police interviewed. Johnny O'connor they arrested Constable Carol and other members of the vigilance committee. After a brief inquest quest. It was determined that Carol and five other men would stand trial for the murders. The main Ayn trial was slated for October of eighteen eighty constable carol would be tried separately presumably because he was considered to be the ringleader as the sole eyewitness young Johnny O'Connor was a key cog in the prosecution's case and he proved up to the task. Johnny Johnny described the night of the massacre in excruciating detail from his hiding place under a bed. Johnny had seen almost every single murder her take place. Unfortunately the prosecution hadn't come up with any concrete evidence to support Janis account ultimately eh because the trial was held so close to bid off township. The jurors decision came down to which side of the Donnelly feud they were on. In both cases the jury was unable to come to a unanimous verdict with the proceedings at a standstill. A new round of trials was set for January twenty fourth eighteen eighty one the separate case for constable constable. Carol was tried I. There was little if any difference from the first time around in terms of evidence however this time around the jury was Zabell to come to a verdict not guilty. The prosecutor knew that if he couldn't get carol convicted there there was no way the other members of the mob would be found guilty rather than waste any more time he decided to let the others out on bail the second trial Never took place. The township had clearly made up their minds. They didn't want justice for the Black Donnelley's as the years passed. The Black Donnelley's story became something of a local legend. One particularly imaginative tale claims that Joanna Alanna Donnelley's ghost roams the bid of townships back roads on horseback today. The Black Donnelly. Homestead is a popular tourist destination destination offering tours of the preserved farmhouse and property. Visitors might not see a shrieking ghost galloping on a ghoulish horse but they will certainly feel the echoes of one of Canada's most famous crimes. Thanks for listening today in true crime. I'm Vanessa Richardson. If you enjoyed this episode checkout are episodes of unsolved murders true crime crime stories on the Black Donnelly murders today in true crime is a podcast original. You can find more episodes of today in true crime and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Not only to spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all all of your favorite podcast originals. Like today in true crime for free from your own desktop or smart speaker to stream today in true crime on spotify. Just open the APP and type today in true crime in the search bar at park cast. We're grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know. L. How we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll be back with a brand new episode tomorrow in True Crime. Today in true crime was created by Max Cutler learn and is a podcast studios original is executive produced by Max Cutler sound design by Trent Williamson with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden Isabel away and Joel Stein. This episode of today and true crime was written by Alex. Benetton with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon. I'm Vanessa Richardson.
"Endless thread is supported by packet and with Savi to companies working to deliver new model for cloud computing together. They're integrated solution combines the power of dedicated bare metal servers that's packet with low cost high-speed cloud storage with Sabi the result, improved performance and lower costs. But also new model to look at as companies race to the cloud. That's packet dot com and was sobbing dot com. Endless thread is supported by. Indeed. If you're hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes, set up screener questions and then zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started at indeed dot com slash NPR podcast. Reduced by the island at WB. You are Boston. Emory if you are trying to accomplish something would you be most motivated by fear? Jealousy. Anger or a lifetime supply vegan chewing gum. I had none of those really resonate with me. But but for the sake of this thought experiment will go go. What's your favorite motivational quote? At the moment. It's one that I found on the get motivated separate it. Okay. And it's actually an Ernest Hemingway, quote, he says there's nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man. True. Nobility lies in being superior to your former self. I love that. It's like you're great just be a better version of yourself. Okay. Mine's a little different. Okay. Comes from Conan the barbarian. And it's an answer to what is best in life and his answer is to crush enemies. This driven before you. And so this is a little different than Hemingway. But I seriously think that my answer for what motivates me is provocation is like friendly competitions someone telling me, I can't do something. What about you? When I think I can't do something. That's when I really wanna do it like that's why I started running. And that's that's been the source of many new adventures in my life. It's still really hard to get motivated. Right. Even when you spend all of your time as you apparently have looking at the get motivated sub Reddit which is full of like, Hemingway and Conan motivational quotes and stories about people doing awesome things despite the challenges they face, right? But it feels appropriate that Arnold Schwarzenegger is referenced in your answer because we're about to meet Conan the barbarian. What? No, we're gonna meet someone who's pumping a lot of iron though. True. So my name is Jerry wells. I'm originally from Utica, New York, just moved to Denver and right now working over at appliance factory and trying to become a pro bodybuilder being pro bodybuilder what I think of is like basically, you get paid to go to places and put oil on your body and flex under bright lights. That's what I think. Are you saying thing I'm not gonna lie? Jared started his quest to become a bodybuilder pretty recently. Actually, he's still bulking up as they say, what is the part of your body that you're most proud of right now. Out to see my apps. Can you describe what you look like now? So about one hundred and fifty pounds. I was really aren't that big. They're getting there. My thighs are still kind of thin ice to I've got some pretty decent Cavs and then ripped ripped Avs. And then I'm building my chest up. Do you have like a target way? Target like circumference of your bicep or something. No, no targets are conference or anything like that. But I do I would like to be at least my goal weight is one hundred eighty one hundred and eighty. Yeah. That's my goal way too. But I'm thirty pounds heavier than that. Hey, man, we're we're both thirty pounds away. So. Yeah. Yeah. I'll meet you in the middle. Sounds good deal. If you think Jared's size in wait sounds a little small for your average bodybuilder. You're not wrong. This is partly because Jared's nude about building. But also because it's been a big year of transformation for him and not just because he moved from upstate New York to Denver January of last year. Are we two hundred seventeen pounds six just about six foot one? So as you can imagine, that's that's not very good. I was kind of kind of looking at death's door. My lung function had fallen severely. My mom, and I kinda been planning for the worst. We had talked to the doctors about hospice kinda have been thinking about that. But I definitely I looked my mother in the eye and kind of told her that that might be something I want to set up a, you know, will hospice the whole nine. I'm Ben Brock Johnson. I'm ama- Stevenson. And you're listening to endless thread the show featuring stories found on read it we're coming to you from Boston's NPR station. WBU are today's episode. Get motivated. A year ago? Jared was close to going into hospice because Jared has cystic fibrosis, and I'll be honest, I didn't know a lot about this disease. But Jared has lived at pretty much for twenty two years since he was born so cystic fibrosis is a degenerative genetic disease. That affects the loans and sometimes the pancreatic digestive system. We have a hard time clearing mucus out of our lungs. So builds up in can cause infections and make it very hard to breathe kind of clog it all up, and eventually some people have the digestive issue where the mucus can just kinda cover, you know, the digestive track and make it really hard to absorb the nutrients that most people would despite this Jared says that thanks to his mom and his older, brother. He had a pretty quote unquote, normal childhood. He went to school hung out with his friends pretty typical not so typical the medications and time consuming treatments that he had to keep up with every day. Enzymes to help them absorb the nutrients and his food nebulizers mile seven machine called the vest, which is literally machine that pumps air into vast fills it up, and then vibrates it very quickly to help break up that Nukus to make me cough it out as you might imagine. This stuff can get pretty tiring. Ng and last January. Jared was freaking tired after so many years. I was kind of sick of it. You know, even if I did everything, right? I felt like a still gonna get sick. And as prolong the inevitable. And I kinda just let my let myself go I kinda just decided to enjoy my life. To the volts instead of doing what I need to do to prolong it. Translation, instead of doing his treatments. Jared would go hang out with his friends. He started drinking a little bit more. He started sleeping more which doesn't seem like a big deal on the surface. But when you have cystic fibrosis backing off of the fight starts to turn into a death sentence injured knew that he just thought he was ready for it one day after a doctor's visit he had the talk with this mom about setting up his will in preparing for hospice, preparing the I think it was maybe the next very next day. My lung function job so much those practically suffocating myself. Just remember calling my mom saying that we need to go to the hospital. And then being in a wheelchair. Finally, getting emitted into hospital as I remember coming out of that. Saying like, there's gotta be more and something just clicked that said, I'm not I'm not ready yet. This is when Jared decided to do something totally out of character for him, and especially out of character for someone with his disease. He had this friend from town. The friend's dad ran a body building gym in Utica, and that friend invited Jared to come workout sometime if he wanted so one morning pretty soon after he decided he didn't wanna die after all Jared hit the gym. But this was not your so-called sports club with, you know, cucumber water and Asana so to super old school bodybuilding Jin. Yeah. There is no windows only a few skylights. And then we have one big Raj Storto Walzer concrete with like paint, chip and on them. There's a there's a wall of all the people that have trained there that have gone pro. And of course, you got all the old school bodybuilders when embody builders with the, you know, the sign timeframe photos, so like what? Did you do on your first day? I definitely followed my friend around like a little puppy, which your friends, then Vinnie Donnelly Dinnie Donnelly you in Vinnie. So we did a decline bench press. I was only doing the bar, but you know. Got to start somewhere. We did chest press believe we did a just a flat bench. Was there a moment? They're like clicked for you. Were you like, oh, yeah. This is my this is it. This is my jam. I'm going to do this now. Not really. I was thinking it was going to be a one, you know, couple times, and then kind of quit. I've known it was I just started going every day, and you know, after Mr Donnelly Vinnie's dead. Kinda wanted to take me on this project. Everybody looked at me and said, well, you're not getting out of this now. Reckitt? Go on your own. Nice job. Can you describe Mr Donnelly like again, I'm gonna come from a place of pop culture, basic references here that I'm just like thinking of the guy from rocky the trainer from rocky would like a stogie and his mouth. You know, and he's got a little cap on his head. Oh god. He's he's about six onus as like six three. He's he's a pretty massive guy and is very hard of hearing. So sometimes you get like screaming his ear. But you know, you ask them any questions about bodybuilding. He's more than happy to help anyone his he's just that kind of guy. Mr Donnelly had actually trained with Arnold Schwarzenegger, and Lou Gehrig, no in Venice beach, there's some legit bodybuilding pedigree there, and he saw something in Jared, partly attendance. They train at six AM every day because Jared wasn't really into having an audience. There were fewer people there to stare at Jared who was frail and pale. And honestly didn't look like he could lift much of anything out of says probably like two or three weeks down the road. When I started. Actually, having energy and put on you know, five pounds away. And I was like this. This is amazing. This is exactly where have on it to be. In the first three months, Jared put on thirty five pounds. And that's not even the best part of my lung function. It it jumped up to about what it was three years ago, which was kind of unheard of typically cystic fibrosis when you lose that substantial amount of lung function. It's very very hard to get it back, and I kinda done that what seemed impossible since then Jared has had really mind blowing journey and all in the last year, eventually render caught wind of post about Jared on Facebook and posted pictures and his story to get motivated community on Reddit it blew up just like Jared had then came more posts with pictures of Jared of the gym and captions like Jerry didn't take today off did you and some people just don't make excuses. He basically became his own neem in even though he's at best read at lurker. Jared kept up with the memes and comments on. These posts. What do you make of that? What do you think of all these strangers just kind of doing and I over your what you've made of your life? A never would've expected in a million years for me to kinda go viral for people to to be so impressed or motivated or inspired by what I've done. Jared says the whole thing his work at the gym. And the results he's had the training under Mr Donnelly and the red reaction hasn't thinking about the future in a way he hasn't before what keeps you motivated. Like, I feel like I could like not be able to find my ear buds or like not have short said I want, you know, and I'm like kind of wet outside. Yeah. Anyone can start going to the gym. It's it's continuing to go to the. I definitely have my days where it's a they're tougher than others. But what really what really keeps me motivated the fact that I can kind of take control of my life again. And be healthy as well as motivate and inspire others to to make a change in their life as well jersey, even considering something that he never would have considered a year ago becoming a motivational speaker, even if it's not just in the gym if I can inspire someone to take control of your life, or you know, do something more with their life. That's that's everything. And then being able to show my mom that everything she did when I was younger is not going to waste. Was it hard for her? When you moved not not really she kinda. She's really excited to get me out of Utica. What I was expecting you to say. I mean, don't let the door hit you. But. I mean, the day of she she got very emotional and nocco, I probably the first time I've seen her cry when I left these are big steps nine months of heavy training and Utica after years of not training at all moving away from home to a new city dryer city where Jared can breathe better a new job in an appliance factory someday motivational speaker, but in some cases, you've got to start with the bar before you add weight Jared's bar right now is getting his personal trainer credentials and leaning into the bodybuilding community where you go to competitions. You can win prize money after being judged on the symmetry and sculpting of your muscles. Also, where Jared has found camaraderie that he never knew existed. You competed in your first bodybuilding competition recently did how did that go? It went very well wasn't expecting it to be as as friendly and as much of a community backstage as it was. You know, I I was I was just chatting with people. I didn't even knew even know I just met. Placed fourth overall in my in one of my divisions, one of my classes, and then fifth and another. So I did I did pretty decent. Not as good as I would have liked to. I wanted to win. But I'd say for my first go at it. It was a learning experience. And I'm going to take that and kind of build on that what's the high five caution backstage how many high fives are around. Oh, God plenty. Everybody. Everybody is is such a great supporter of each other is is very very eye opening thirteen. Then I haven't moved get motivated quote. Oh, yeah. Yeah. It's Jimmy like, Jared, Lou. I mean, it doesn't have the same bar Barrick rage of seeing your enemies driven before you Conan style. But I'm in. It has a nice ring. In fact, I'm motivated Emory and there's proof and it's on the internet, which means it's forever. We examined Ben's proof of getting motivated in twenty nineteen in a minute. Emory. Let's talk about the cloud. The cumulative biz these here is at least Stratos the data storage cloud. My friends, we're talking tech cloud. Yup. And they're a couple of companies working together to change the data storage game packet, and what's Sabi. If by changed the game, you mean, faster cheaper, compute and storage delivered on a high capacity. Low latency global fiber network with no transfer fees. You saw the talking points they were stored in the cloud. They were stored in the cloud. AO ask your company's web developer to check out was obvi- impacted a dream team of cloud computing companies extra dreamy because they support endless thread. So why not support them? Learn more at packet dot com and with Sabi dot com. Endless thread is supported by. Indeed. If you're hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes, set up screener questions and then zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started at indeed dot com slash NPR podcast. It's one forty one. And you're listening to night call. From New York City. I'm Emily Yoshida and from Los Angeles. I am tesla. And Molly, I'm Bert. Are you in need of company during those strange days and lonely nights every Monday, meet other at dark rooms for free jazz blend of cultures theory, internet fascinations combing, listen tonight, call on apple podcasts Spotify or wherever you get your favorite shows. Emory. Can you remember my New Year's resolution that I told you about well, I remember you saying that you wanted to get fit and lose some weight specifically, I think the words I used were that I'd like to turn my dad bod'ed into a little more of a red, bud. Oh, yes. It's all coming back to me. There's a RAD Bhatt inside of me here. I just know it. Okay. Whatever you say. Okay. Look, I realized that this is the trope easiest of all New Year's resolution tropes. But let me just say number one. I'm not that unhappy with myself. I feel like my goals are within reach a pretty active guy. But my dad life would the whole milk in the fridge the garbage truck cleanup for whatever the kids won't eat the happy life. I've lived enjoying beers. And all the things over the last ten years Emory. It's caught up with me and for myself. But also for my family, I want to get a little healthy make a little change. I like this. I support you. Thanks, man. And naturally, of course, instead of recruiting you Emory because I knew that you'd kill me in the gym. I recruited a redder to help me with this resolution. My name is Daniel Peter on from Thunder Bay on -tario Canada. And my my day job. I work as a sales rep in the family business here in town. Daniels family business involves providing bingo sheets Ameri too. You know, like all the retirement communities and other avid, bingo hours in north on -tario. Didn't know that was the thing. I know I forgot that. Bingo. Bingo sheets you need like actually from somewhere. Yeah. Exactly. But the business also involves something that would seem to run counter to any effort to lose weight ever. Yeah. The other focus of our business is like concession food. Snacks. Have you ever been to like a hockey arena and had Nacho cheese or slushy or an icy for the American people out there? We supply all of that in this part of the country operation dad, bud to RAD Bhatt is off to an iffy start. Yes, I'd mitt getting in touch with a guy whose family business literally provides concession Nacho cheese has some pitfalls, but Dan is actually the perfect person to aid me on my quest or my journey, which he told me is the term folks us because losing weight isn't easy Daniels. Started his own journey about three years ago. I started at a round. Eighty. I'm not one hundred percent, sure. The exact number, but it was four eighty four ninety. But I just always use forty s my point of reference long story short. Dan, had a friend living across the country that was getting in shape, and that friend kind of inspired den to get cracking Thunder Bay. So we got a personal trainer. He started working out started eating better in two years. Dan, lost two hundred pounds. So I mean, I've gone down twenty inches there or in pant size and all that going from six seven XL shirts too. You know, sometimes an XL shirt somewhere along the way Dan got involved with the community on it called lose it where he eventually became a moderator. I mean when I joined it was a lot smaller than it is now. So it was only six hundred thousand people are so whereas now in the last eight months, it's gone up to like one point three million people or whatever. So it's the dynamics definitely changed a lot. But you know, it's a great place where people that come in it just encourages. All the things I said like movie more healthy. And it puts you in a group set in with other people. And it's definitely been a really good tool for me. And I know a lots of the people that use it end up finding as a great resource as well. What do you think about around this time of year when it comes to the common mistakes that people make and what vice could you give to people like me who are like? All right. This is it I'm gonna use this to get my shit together. Right. The first thing I always liked to say to people is that like, I mean, this is when I started I started January sixth, and you know, as we've discovered I've had my own success. So don't think you're gonna fail before you start. I like to hear that. That's yeah. And but I mean, the biggest mistake people make is trying to too much too fast. And you're trying to make fifty changes at once while still having a real life and working and all that comes with that. And it's it's just too much. So when you're starting right now, I mean, your your focus should only be your food. Basically what you're eating because that's the biggest thing to kick or change. What you're doing is. In theory, should be changes for your life and not just changes for right now. And then you you end up in a position where what you're doing isn't a diet anymore, or it's not a pain in your ass or anything. It's it's just what you do. You know, eat this way. I go to the gym three days a week. And you know, that's just my life. And that's what I do. I enjoy versus the the terror of, you know, trying to go to gym at five AM every day, and, you know, eating those since getting that and not having that. And you know, it's can overwhelm yourself. Right. You just gotta take. One step at a time. It's a marathon not a sprint as it were. Yeah. Well, exactly, right. I mean, that's a perfect analogy. And I tried to avoid so used all the time. But I mean, it it is a perfect knowledge. But yeah, no, it is the perfect analogy. I mean, it's going to take time to undo the damage you've done so to speak, you know, to your waistline in that. And you know, you've spent twenty six years being fat Faulk. So it takes me a year longer to get where I wanted. Then I thought then so be it. Right. You don't have to be good everyday. You just have to have more good days than bad. You know, what Ben this all sounds like solid advice in spite of your marathon and sprint cliche. But I'm not wrong right now. Daniel also told me a less cliche saying which is popular in the it community. It is not what you eat between Christmas and new years. It's what you eat between New Year's and Christmas. Basically every day is new opportunity to have a quote, unquote, good day. But what's a good day going to look like for you? Like, what are you going to do in this operation dad to RAD, bud? Okay. Well, I did some research which already gives me a little more hope that you're serious about this. I gotta say, yes. And not only did I do research Amri, you're going to be so proud. I posted a draft of my plan to the lose it community on Reddit looking for feedback. I am so proud good job, dude. In now. I'm going to break it down for you. Okay. The headline is I may not like it. But this is what my peak thirty eight year old dad looks like I have a plan. But I'm not sure it's the right plan advice ready. Yes. So I've got a diet section here and fitness section. Okay. So for diet, I'm gonna try to cut out all refined sugar. I'm gonna like coal back. My carbs big time. I'm gonna lose the beer and swap it out for booze. No eating after ten pm. So that's going to help me hopefully, go to sleep earlier and also like not put on weight by just eating late night. I'm gonna generally cut back on my dairy so chill on the cheddar cheese. Wop whole milk for skim milk, or soy? So that's my diet plan. Love it fitness plan. Do everything Emory does. Now, my fitness plan is commit to four hours per week of exercise. So that's gonna be a little tricky. But I can do it. I'm going to do that by working out in the morning. I'm gonna get more sleep for real Z's. I'm going to focus my exercise basically on cardio core. Strengthening and arms work because I want to be able to invite people to the gun show. Do you have a trainer or are? You just making your own my trainer weirdly as my dad. Okay. Because we go to the gym together in the morning. Hell, yes. My dad like he texts me every morning if I'm running late and has like, hey, man. I'm down here. Sweating doing this. I know hero. He is a total here. And I'm Sarah. Right now. But I'm working on it. And my question is will this work. Will it take forever? And will I look less like a seal and more like a dull Fionn? It sounds like a lot. But I think there are tools that can help you do that for sure. Okay. You're up domestic totally okay. Cautiously optimistic but I'm optimistic. Okay. Thanks. So I also asked Dan for his feedback for what your mission is. Right. I mean, your mission isn't to become a planet, fitness, Mr. fitness, or whatever, you know, what. I mean, your your mission is just to get a little bit healthier. And look a little better. Right. So I think it is going from dead bud to read data. Yeah. Definitely. For slightly red. Oh, I think you'll do just fine. I mean, it's. I mean, it's going to suck. Sometimes it's not always going to be as hunky Dory has as as you want it to be but. What you wanna do? Right. And I mean, what you want to achieve has to be important enough to you that it's kind of overrides everything. Sure. But in doing that. I mean, eventually gets the point where it's not overriding anything, it's just your new normal your new routine, right? Then thank you so much for giving me all of this advice in for talking to us about this and telling us your story. Thank you. Well, Ben this point. I'm not sure what else there is to say other than let operation dad Bod to RAD vodka manse. I mean, I'm basically perfect. I just need to tone bit. That's all and stop eating like all the doughnuts. What about you though, we talked about your New Year's resolution possibilities? We talked about a couple. Yeah. Okay. So you remember last summer, we went swimming at the pond by your house. Yes, we did in these frigid days that feels like another planet. And I feel like swimming is a generous term for what I was doing because I can't really swim. I mean, you definitely stayed afloat. And we swim pretty far. But you did it with what I would characterize as very energetic. Doggy, paddle, very energetic. Yeah. No, I can tread water for days, but I just have zero swimming technique. So this year, I'm gonna learn how to swim, and I got myself a swim. Coach on read it. Nice. You got to surf the internet before he can swim. So how where who was? Her name is Leah. She lives just outside of Boston. And she has agreed to up my swimming game roll tape. No, no. No, I'm going to dive in pretty soon. I see what you did there. So we're going to have to do an episode update. I think from the fantastic future of red dad Bod, Ben to Emory. Katie Decky Iverson, dammit, this means we actually have to Paul through. Give me ten Johnson. All right. If you wanna take a look at the detail version of my fitness and nutrition plan and the amazingly detailed endure, I say encouraging positive feedback. You can do that on read it where we are endless underscore thread while you are on our page, by the way hit that follow button. So we can stay in touch with you. They're also huge thanks to the lose it community, and Dan for helping with that and thanks to user. So Dak Zach for connecting us to Jared, you the man also by the way soda Zach is featured in one of our other episodes called gator roll, you should totally check it out. It features three great love stories from read it, and yes Emory, and I will update you with our progress on our missions at big wins, or epic fails. Endless threat is a production of WBU are Boston's NPR station in partnership with red it. Our shows a dream realized by Jessica Alpert who rolls into her Jim with that school. Cool iris Adler is our executive producer. And when we told her we were entering a bodybuilding competition. She said that happened mix and sound design by Paul vicous who when looking at Ben's workout plan, he said. No, our web producer is Megan Kelly who stares at inspirational Jared posts because she loves Polston memes. Michael pope is our advisor read it who thinks lose it is full of life protests, Josh Schwartz's, our producer. And he thinks about New Year's resolutions. Like expectation verse reality extra production assistance from James Lindberg. Thanks, redder. Or suicide by thug for this week's artwork. It is called delete Facebook hit the gym lawyer up. It's great, by the way, if you wanna Email us, you can hit us up at endless thread at WBZ dot org. You can give us a juicy story tip. So we can tell it like we did today or let us know if you wanna make art for an upcoming episode. We'd love to work with you. My co host and producers Ameri seabirds, I'm senior producer and host brought Johnson. Now, let myself out. We did it baby Shaq do.
Bob Rowe, Jamie Dyson & Joe Donnelly from the Brooks IHL Scholarly Symposium
"Prepare yourself for physical therapy conference that will deliver a P._T.. Education hangover of epic proportions because we're going to Las Vegas this October P._t.. pint cast presents presents the tri-state Physical Therapy Conference October eleventh to thirteenth in Fabulous Las Vegas Nevada. Maybe three days of learning networking and well probably some good old fashioned Las vegas-style fund with presentations by a President Sharon done state Chapter Presidents Chris Powers of California John Hike of Arizona and R._J.. Williams from Nevada with your keynote presentation by Tim Flynn focused talks on telehealth medical marijuana and motivational interviewing just so we're clear that's three different talks. We're not mixing medical. Marijuana with telehealth and motivational interviewing will not yet anyway. Tickets are on sale now. Get Yours at PODCAST DOT com one a win your way in enter to win free tickets at P._T.. PINT CAST DOT com the tri-state Physical Therapy Conference October eleventh to thirteenth. What happens in Vegas well? You know how this ends advocate advocate advocate you know we we have to have one voice to move our profession forward as one group one profession one team we're one big family and we just have to work together to move it forward. Hopefully we can continue building value demonstrating the value of what this residency and fellowship training actually does because it's still questioned <hes> within the profession value of this and hopefully we can continue building on that and really make us a national event make it a home for residents to come in and show what they're able to do and how they're thinking pedigree impromptu conversation with Bob Ro and Jamie dyson while we were at the Brooks H.. L. Scholarly Symposium Brooks Institute of Higher Learning they support our shell and they haven't event every year they bring in residents and fellows from within their organization were in all aspects of the residency education in different aspects like Ortho Geriatrics Piatra in sports and pediatrics and they come together and present it so short little snippets of what these students are working on all year all together in one day along with some innovation talks from people like Alan Jetty myself on social media just giving people a nice the next day of taking information that you might not be exposed to otherwise was walking around this imposing with microphone because that's what I do and caught up with Bob who's in charge of this gigantic program at Brooks and Jimmy Dyson who's the president of the Florida Physical Therapy Association and we said well. What do we think about the day so we got into these <hes> hugely smart dudes take a listen to what we got out episode brought to you by Owens Recovery Science? They're a single source for physical therapists looking for certification can personalized blood flow restriction rehabilitation training. You're think about adding that and the equipment that you need to apply it properly in clinical practice but also behind most of the research coming out these guys are on the forefront so take a look at just some of the research dip your toe into it and then take a look at where Johnny Owens and his team are around the world certifying professionals in our training check them out at Owens recovery science dot Com all right. Let's do the show. The best conversations happen at happy hour. Welcome two hours for this is the P._t.. PODCASTS here's your host physical therapist Jimmy Mackay here at the scholarly symposium at Brooks I._H._l.. Here with Bob Ro and Jimmy Dyson guys how we doing today. I'm doing great. This is fantastic. Jamie man about Florida very happy happy to be here. We're so proud of Brooks and all that they're doing fourth annual scholarly symposium. What are what are your feeling? We're we're three quarters of the way through the day today goal in terms of an event like this and indeed you hit it today in terms of through your eyes yes yes so the goal is always giving dissemination of information sharing ideas sharing thoughts bringing people together creating community giving residents and opportunity to have their chance to show what they've done and what they're what level they're thinking at because really it's more about. We always think about clinical reasoning. You know not just what you did but what you're thinking and I think they've done a great job of that so I think we have a lot of our goals. A little Birdie told me that <hes> you had a part in designing the Brooks. Fox Logo is that right yeah well I did. I did design the logo I started from the very beginning and it's to stand for we. We got a little taste from from rain but I want. I want to hear your thought process. It's <hes> it starts off with. The outer is a shield. It's traditional academics Mexico. We Want Brooks I._H._l.. Institute of Higher Learning to be the academic division of Brooks Rehab and then the three circles inside stand for each circle has a represents the different components one is clinical service one is <unk> <hes> education and research and whether you know in the center of course with that comes together with had been diagram comes together is excellence in care excellence impatient management and that's what we're striving to do in the I._H._l.. Would we want to bring all of those pieces together. We Want Anna Merge clinical practice we WANNA merge merge clinical practice with education and research and and make them seamless the synergistic they not silos the not independent entities. They're all collaboratively working together. Great Novon Diagram my favorite type of diagram just in case you guys know I thought that was really well. Put your talking about dissemination of information. We just had a chance to talk with Alin. Jedi who literally was talking about just that in his keynote address glad that that is something that <hes> that the profession is working on we can tell from your logo down at Brooks is thinking that important you putting this event on speaks highly of it so <hes> impressions after Allen's Keno on the two is ignorance in an ineptitude. Yeah I mean spot on. I mean if you don't have the information then then you're you're not gonna go anywhere and it doesn't matter if you have the information that you're not gonna use it so the whole concept of that that ineptitude pieces. I think really important when I I I have to tell you when I first heard the title I thought wow that's a little edgy but having him roll it out out was so phenomenal and he did a great job of laying out there and and justifying it and really meant a lot of sense and thankful that he was able to do that here he does it. I thought it was really clear message right ignorance. You don't have the information ineptitude. You're not doing anything with it. I like this room because as we're speaking it's a poster session right. We just broke out into poster session amongst presentations. This is example of eliminating adept at to a living example. That's right that's right and it's and it's great to see people that every poster Sir there's active conversation going on right now so so that's fantastic and and really makes my Hartfield warm and fuzzy we talked about advocacy and we turn to <hes> to Jamie dyson that came up several times. How do we how do we get how do we get this this thing thing that we do in terms of physical therapy to <hes> better be better promoted within our profession but of course the magic is outside of our profession when you hear advocacy? That's gotTa make you get excited. Yes and we do need to get more outward facing with what what it is that we do in fact in Florida right now we're working on our practice act in updating it so that we can some do some more things and you know basically modernize it where doctoring profession now it was written when we were at a bachelor's level so how long ago was written how long how old working with thirty years wow thirty years so walk me through the middle of that process right now walk me through like where does one start changing practice is well. You know if you think back to Saturday morning cartoons. I'm just a bill it. It's not like that that all right if it was that simple I think we'd we'd gotten a long way. You know it's unfortunately it's legislation not education that drives practice <hes> a good friend of mine. Mark Bishop taught me that and I use that line all the time I gotta give him credit for that but in order to to to work to the full extent of our education we have to drive this legislation and it can't be just a few of US doing it has to be all of us with one voice moving forward. You know we talked to you know the panel discussion today was talking about the the the money aspect or the economic aspect of Medicare Medicaid and at the federal level. Unfortunately those were the deepest pockets of the one that are the ones that get the ear of the legislators so we need you know we don't have deep pockets. We need louder voices. GET LOUDER VOICES. We need more people involved and engaged I like to the question was asked hey what if we just bought a super bowl commercial right and that comes up and then that gets me Kinda riled up because in my head I like to draw a parallel between communications and physical therapy. Your goal is to increase awareness but don't tell me what intervention to use to achieve the goal. That's my job as a therapist or a communicator and I my response to shouldn't we just by Super Bowl commercials was I'd rather turn this entire room into an army of communicators we'd have way. Way Way further reach we did that. I usually go to the bathroom during the commercials the Super Bowl so you know personally I would. I would miss that it needs to be a constant message. One Super Bowl commercial is not going to do it for us. It needs to be in in your face all the time every day. We can have a huge impact on health care the way it's delivered. You know it's an inefficient system. People are seeing the wrong practitioners not at the right time and by giving folks at education giving him that power to choose the right professional at the right time will make the system more efficient in the long run less expensive. You're gonNA tell your kid to clean their room. You wouldn't say at one time like a super bowl commercial. You would say multiple times and in different ways this summit up an event like this today. What would you want to know what would want people to know about the the fifth annual scholarly symposium which I'm hoping it's coming up next year it will it will tentatively scheduled for the twenty seventh of June and Saturday Saturday twenty seven June? We're going to expand it and we'll have more <hes> residents from other programs outside of Brooks coming to this will probably break out into have more breakouts with <hes> specialty areas so that'll be a new component to this and we may add a second KENO next year part of our show that we do here. Tradition is the parting shot. This is the parting shot the parting shot is brought to you by rock tape more than just a tape company. Rock tape is a movement company company tools and education for medical professionals. If you're looking to help your patients go stronger longer checkout rock tape dot com. Both of you guys have had parting shots before in a room like this today. What's your parting shot walking out of here advocate advocate advocate advocate? You know we have to have one voice. You know. I'm an acute care guy. I've been pushing for dry needling. I use wet needles. You know I work in the I._C._U.. So you know we have to have one voice to move our profession forward as one group one profession question one team and is one big family. We're one big family and we just have to work together to move it forward better together not just a cliche which Sharon says are. What do you got partying shop? Hopefully we can continue building community. We can continue building value of <hes> what our value proposition is within we can continue demonstrating the value of what this residency and fellowship training actually does because it's still question <hes> within the profession what's the value of this and so hopefully we can continue building on that and moving this forward and really make this a national event for programs all over the country make it a home for residents to come in and show what they're able to do and how they're thinking are gentlemen appreciate taking some time out during this busy event here Brooks Rehabilitation Institute of Higher Learning and the fourth fourth annual scholarly symposium looking forward to next year and number five online facebook twitter and Instagram at P._T.. PODCAST love working with these guys when talking about our longtime supporters of the show Arias Medical Group they find jobs Absu that's it. That's what they do and that awesome. It's so great when you can just say one sentence. About what an organization does I've been working with Arias. They've been supporting the show since the show went on the air and quite simply they find physical therapists jobs where you WanNa do at Travel P._T.. Check check them out online all right travel. P._T.'s thing you WanNa do summers by the beach. She wanted to winters somewhere near a ski hill. You can do that all right. It's called a license to practice physical therapy because you can go anywhere you want. An Arias proves that been doing this for two decades finding physical therapist jobs where you want to go short term assignments. Maybe WANNA test a place out. I long term assignments if you love something stick their Arias has you covered a U.. R. E. WESTMEDICAL DOT com their leaders and travel again check. They have to offer no obligation a U.. R. E. U.. S. Medical Dot Com love those guys the we'll be right back to the podcast. WanNa Thank Brooks I._H._l.. That's Brooks Rehabilitation Institute of Higher Learning earning offering residencies fellowship education orthopedics women's Health Geriatrics neurologic P._T.. Pediatrics sports that's an overview of their residencies checkout what they have to offer at Brooks H.. L. Dot Org world-class world class educational opportunities to local and regional community check him out Brooks I._H._l.. Dot Org that's P podcast last of the episodes that we recorded live at the Brooks H. L. Scholarly Symposium not. Only the residents presenting their research in their work together on stage in front of the entire room <hes> we also had some innovation talks given by people like Alan Jetty who we heard from on this show and the other one was Joe Donnelly Joe a professor and Director Post Professional Education at Mercer University's Department of P._T.. An advocate for his patients in the profession for more than thirty five years. If you haven't met Joe you need to at a conference big personality. Let's say you'll know Joe's around. We got into talk about changing. Clinical behaviors and actions wins P._T.. Advocacy is something that really important to him and challenges of residency and Fellowship Education and maybe how you can alleviate some of those challenges if you're looking to get into it so take a listen to what we got into with Joe on this episode brought to you by Owens Recovery Science WanNa thank Johnny. He owns a team for being a longtime supporter of the program. They're the leaders in personalized blood flow restriction rehabilitation training. If you're thinking about adding that to your toolbox first before you jump in take a look at their website they feature a lot of the research information well before before you ever jump into a class all right so checkout owens recovery science dot com and if it sounds like something that'll help your patient population. If you want to add it to your clinical practice that's when you go right back to that website and check out where they're instructing it around the world four Major Ager Sports N._C.. Double A. along with literally around the globe as well as the equipment. You need to apply it properly with the evidence. Check him out again at Owens Recovery Science Dot Com. They're leaders in our certification back to the typecast with Jimmy McKay here with Joe Donnelly at Brooks H.. L. The scholarly symposium you had yourself <hes> An invasion talk and on your very first light you something from my childhood right I mean knowing is half the battle. That was the battlecry from G._I.. Joe Oh and I'm dating myself because in case you don't know you haven't seen G._I.. Joe First of all shame on you second of all at the end of every episode. They're really trying to do a P._S._A.. Don't play with matches don't get into car with strangers and their battlecry was an knowing is half half the battle and your innovation talkshow really kind of involved that but you turned it on its head talk talk a little bit about you know what that phrase meant to you while you altered it a little bit so we talked about the G._I.. Joe Fallacy. I really did an alternate. It's out there by some different behavioral psychologists and so we just turned it around to it's really not half the battle and that's the G._i.. Joe Fallacy and it's an we're getting getting so many pieces of information thrown at us at all time and we can't possibly process at all so knowing is not the half the battle you said there's about receiving about eleven million pieces of information a day at the same time what is at the same time and we're and we're trying to process all this information social media emails text messages twitter facebook and general general life and we're only able to process about forty forty pieces of that information at a time and you've got to separate so knowing is half the because you've got access to literally millions of pieces of information. But how many can you actually process talk talk a little bit more about your innovation talk. What was what was the goal? Would you want the audience to walk away. Feeling the main thing was that there was <hes> behaviors that we have to change if we're going to make an impact in patient care advocacy and the healthcare system and just presenting a difference the framework that they're using in business economy in psychology about automatic behavioral changes and just giving people a roadmap to tap into the context that we might be able to change to tap into our automatic thinking and things that are driven by intuition and feelings feeling that we have this conviction that we know what we're doing can stop and say. Did we really talk about your role. What do you get to do in case? Someone doesn't know you <hes> Mercer Right now. But what do you get to do you know at at Your Day job and then also outside of those confines. What do you get to Kim so my day job is <hes> actually organizing and coordinating the cardiovascular pulmonary neurologic and orthopaedic residencies in our fellowship in Orthopedic Manual Physical Therapy and teaching the clinical reasoning paint sciences thread throughout the D._t.? Program challenging urging people how to think do things differently yeah. That's always a that's a common thing that makes students nervous. I mean myself. I'm talking from experience. Maybe nervous but that's the one thing that pushes you to really be better. Once you leave <hes> an educational institution so I would agree and. I do think that if you give students a roadmap and something they can fall back on and look at the boxes is there information in these boxes and if there isn't I need to seek it so I can make a better decision so I think the clinical reasoning model especially one by Jones and Christians is in give students a roadmap to how they should be thinking of making clinical judgments framework something to hold onto when you're kicked out of the nest and if you're standing on your on your own two feet <hes> something to as you said put in those boxes and if there's something missing you need. Do you need more information and that's your job. That's correct talk about the difficulties in in in programs like that running them and being in them after after D._B._T.. Education yes so as most people would know the accreditation process for residency mm-hmm fellowships is quite burdensome and has become more burdensome through the years so the challenges sustaining them so with increasing burdens burdensome requirements trying to get additional clinics to take the residents trying to stay within the in the goalpost iffy will accreditation is really a becoming more and more challenging for sustainability not only growth but sustainability how often is is re accreditation for program might that what's the timeframe so you do <hes> your initial accreditation and then it's five years is and then if you are doing great work and moving forward you can get up to a ten year re accreditation so our Ortho and our neuro programs are both achieved their tenure accreditation process and we have cardiovascular pulmonary fellowship coming up at the end of two thousand nineteen and beginning of twenty. I guess it's never it's never <hes> the job is never done because you're always working towards improvements. So it's continuous quality improvement like everything else trying to decrease the barriers of access trying to decrease the costs costs and as we create more rules we create more cost so be mindful that <hes> we WANNA make sure that we're looking at the student debt load from entry level program. We have to look at it the same way for residency program we had a <hes> the scholarly smackdown smackdown we didn't get audio of that but you on stage <hes> with Bob and Michael and Alan Jetty <hes> you brought up advocacy the question. Was You know why don't we <hes> when we buy just a super bowl commercial. We'll tell everybody will do all at once and <hes> you really turned it around. I thought aw great way which was we need individuals in this room to be advocates and that's the way we'll move the needle. Why is it so important to you? I why are you so passionate about advocacy. Well my mentors from early days said if you WanNa make a difference you got to advocate and so I think advocacy advocacy comes from the heart and your passion and so- advocating for our patients should be the number one priority and that means putting ourselves in the political arena to advocate for our patients and not for politics and making sure we are. We're getting the best changes we need for healthcare delivery access to our services protecting our services or championing ourselves to be at the table and I heard it at a meeting if you're if you're not at the table you're on the menu. <hes> my first I federal advocacy forum was two years ago before I want. I really you know considered myself. Oh this is in my arena but I'll go and check it out and <hes> and then I realized that advocacy and the politics part of it and I'm using air quotes there is really having conversations with people whose whose job is to either put rules into place or change rules. It's a conversation we should stop saying politics. Go Converse have have the conversation. Let people know what you do where you do it how you do it and who you provide those services for and and you'd be surprised the average legislator has no idea what you do and where you do it and for whom you're providing a service reverse it I have. I really don't have any idea I didn't anyway before Federal Advocacy Forum two years ago. I didn't have any idea what that person's job was my representative additive or the people that work with them so that's really foolish media just assume they know exactly what I do and can do for individuals their constituents and it's important to be <hes>. It's it's people get frustrated because it's it's relationship building. It's it's not showing up to this. Political Event is showing up to all political events and Georgia. We've done a great job. We've had four to five hundred members show up every year for Advocacy Day since two thousand fourteen we are now recognized that the capital we have been invited to sit at seats at a table that we've never been considered before an example of that is the Attorney General's opioid task force seat on the table. They've had five meetings already but we're at the table now. Why why did you how'd you move the needle? Is it just four hundred people showing. Coming up or was it the fact that you guys kept showing up. I think it's keeping showing up and even <hes> two thousand fifteen. We passed landmark legislation for direct access redefine our practice act in two thousand sixteen. We made it a point that four hundred P._T.'s I._T.'s P._T._A.'s students had to show up again. We didn't have an agenda nothing on the agenda but our presence was felt and that's important cool was that hey what are you guys here to advocate for today. We're just here to show our support and our presence gene. Do you need something. No just just here show support that I bet you know left an impression on on legislators yeah for most people and now they look for us on those days so it's it's been a great thing started like I said and fourteen and here we are in two thousand nineteen same showing and we'll have it again in twenty twenty. What do you take away from Burma from today and all the presentations? We were just walked out of the poster section here at Brookside show. Would you take away from all the different messages with any themes that jumped out at you. It's it's yeah. It seemed like a a lot of <hes> it's always amazing when you come to these things and none of us talked about our talks are innovative talks to keynote speaker so to keynote speaker and jetties starts off with his great talk about translating evidence into practice and the dissemination and what we do and then I get up and talk about the Messenger and how we're going to be the Messenger. What are the norms in the clinic? How are we going to change behaviors then you rise up and say hey you know is is social media hazardous and then the next so and then the next person comes up and it's about behavior in the clinic so so it was quite amazing? That's all the innovative talks without out. Even communicating are at the same place about behavior and how we're going to change behaviors and our patients behaviors. I think because I've seen this happen before and again. It's not on purpose when themes like that arise. It's when I think the speakers are paying attention to what they're hearing outside of these presentations when you hear these things and of course my talk was based off the Oxford debate from last week at <hes> at next but the reason that that was a topic because that's been talked about for the last year and I think all these things come to a head heads when you're asked to give an innovation talkie say okay. Let me sit here and think about all the things I've been hearing people talk about now. Let me give my two cents but it is funny when you hear those things pop up and completely by accident and I think it's really great when you when you did your innovation talk. You're not talking about not doing it. You're talking about the hazards of doing it. And how do we change our behavior so we're not sucked into the world of hazardous wasted communication or non communication which I think resonated with a a lot of young people in the road race to the bottom. Don't don't try to try to gain that social currency just for the sake of being a social media Kardashian and just having followers and likes and shares last thing we do on the show. Is your parting shots. This is the parting shots the parting shot is brought to you by rock tape more than just a tape company. Rock tape is a movement company tools and education for medical professionals. If you're looking to help your patients go stronger longer anger checkout rock tape dot com so is your chance to drop a mic DRP sentiment. What's one thing you'd want the audience to <hes> to walk away with the audience can be the people who've been hanging out with all day today the other residents and fellows here Brooks and of course listening audience <hes> driving in their cars to clinic or in between class so I think the take home especially from this conference and in being here is when you go back Monday morning? Are you doing things because there are the norms and what you default to or is it. The things that patients is need and deserve so. Are you going to meet their expected outcome or you're going to get their desired outcome. <hes> Joe Donnelly Buddy Jo appreciate your time <hes> talking with us here at <hes> Brooks. I don't think this can be last one. We'll get you back on it here soon. Thanksgiving appreciate it the P._T.. PODCAST is a product of P._T.. PODCAST L._l._C. it is hosted and produced by P T podcasts E._E._o.. Jim McKay and C._B._O.. Sky Donovan from Marymount University. We talked P._T.. Drink beer and recorded. This has been another poor from the P._T.. pint cast used P._d.. podcast it's intended for educational purposes. Only no clinical decision making should be based solely on source lump here is taken to ensure accuracy. Factual errors can be present more on the show at P._T.. PODCASTS DOT COM our home on the Internet P._T.. PODCAST DOT COM created by build build P._T.. Provides Marketing Services specifically for private practice P._D.'s website development and hosted inviting content marketing solutions P._T.. Clinics across the country.
AEE 1189: 3 Things that You Must Do During a Job Interview with Jon Donnelly
"This is an English podcast episode one thousand one hundred eighty nine three things that you must do during a job interview with John Donnelly welcome to the all ears English podcast downloaded unloaded more than fifty million times we believe in connection not perfection with your American hosts Lindsey McMahon the English adventure and Michelle Kaplan The New York radio girl coming to you from Boston and New York City U S A and to get your transcripts delivered by email every week. Go to all ears English dot com forward slash subscribe today. We have a guest on the show John Donnelly will show you how to navigate your next job interview in English and the three crucial things that you absolutely must do during the interview in order to succeed find out what they are today. Hey John Welcome back to all ears English. How are you great? Thank you Lindsey Great. I'm having yeah. I'm happy to have you back on the show John you're here on the show. Oh for episode six twenty four back in twenty seventeen where you taught us how to politely interrupt someone at work which is an awesome topic by the way yes I did. Thank you very much. Yes it was very cool. You've been on the show a few times to talk talk about business topics but today we want to have you here to talk about interviewing but first of all John I want to ask you. Where are you from? And where are you based. Introduce yourself to our audience here please. Yes absolutely so I'm from England. I I was born in a city called Birmingham second biggest city in the U._k.. And I'm currently living in South America in Peru. Wow what's it like living in Peru. Its cold at the moment. We're just going into winter here. We're in the Southern Hemisphere so K. Jumpers on choosing some. Oh I see where does going into summer here in Boston. It's a humid day out so we're in different atmospheres here things right exactly all right right so John. What would you say are the things that most interviews interviewers are trying to find out about about the person being interviewed about the candidate? What would you say our listeners need to know about that? Yes so basically the one of the most important things I would say is. They want to know if you're going to stick around. Yes so talk about your your plans to to be around in the city in that that country for an extended period. I myself have have a problem where I've traveled a lot so in the interviews if I share my experiences of traveling. Around the world I often think well. They think I'll be around for long itchy feet so how do you how do you personally get around that. How do you do you just got to not share your travels or how do you navigate navigate that well? I think it's important to to get across the few happy in in the joke that your going four fifth. This is the job that you want that. You would stick around them. Yeah it would be something for you to due to put roots down. Yeah okay interesting so just being clear that if you like it you will stick around. That's good sizing that part. I love that and I liked that that verb you used stick around so meaning to stay around or to stay in one place to stay there right. I love that that's a really good word for our listeners here. What's something else that the interviewers trying to to get a sense of would you say well? They won't sue to know if you're a nice social person generally to get on with people in that company company so I think it's important not to to avoid any negative experiences so com- common questions in interviews would be <hes>. Why did you leave your last job? He is really important not to mention any things like Oh. I didn't like the people I hate it. My boss me enough. The conditions were awful. There was no free coffee took mention any of them. Don't say that absolutely that would be I would put the red flag up operate for the person interviewing you right away and that sense of like Oh. This person was in a toxic environment but did they create the toxic environment right yeah absolutely <hes> try and go down the path. Where you're you're moving jobs because you want to expand your experience etc etc yeah and for our listeners guys that's really where vocabulary comes in because you can tell the same story but tell it in a bunch of different ways depending on your angle on the story and that's why it's important to have the right vocab awesome and to what would be the third thing that interviewers WanNa find out about you well? Maybe an obvious one but <hes> going to want to know if you can do the job <hes> so. Are you smart Som- can you think on your feet so yeah when you're presented with problems. Can you solve those problems. Yes it's it's it's off examples. Yeah Okay so examples of times when you have been able to make quick decisions visions or make something work. That wasn't working. Is that what you mean okay yeah. That's a great expression to think on your feet. I love that awesome. Okay okay so then all right so we have this idea of what interviewers are trying into no but I bet our listeners would love it if they had three concrete things that they should really be doing in an interview and again. This is from your perspective as a native English Speaker Right. I guess in a bunch of different cultures that you've interviewed in that you that you shared shared with us on board. Be those three things what would be one of them that you should be doing as a candidate yes so we briefly thoughts about the physical side of things so I think that's very important so the beginning of a job interview. You to to to break. The ice sets up a nice a nice environment so yeah fidgeting. We discussed that again. What does it mean to fidget just for our listeners in case? They're not sure what is that yes fidget. That's an ice verb when you're nervous things you do when you're nervous physically so you might be <hes> topping your fingers tapping your feet. Yeah what else playing with your face yeah. These are things we could be doing that. Were not even aware of. Isn't that right yes. I've heard that you should you should look at yourself in the mirror and try and try and figure out what you do when you're nervous some things that make you nervous recency see what kind of body language or you're missing I see. I like that Josh trying control. It's playing poker Scott right poker face. I think we did talk about that that term on the show a few two weeks back into and what else do we should. We try to be funny. What do you think should we be using humor? I think so yeah absolutely why not it really helps to break break down the barrier between the when you're on the insecurities yeah yeah so if you are if we are yeah. I think that that's a key piece. I think trying to be funny. If we're not funny may not work as well where I we should always try to be who we are. I think but yeah a lot of people are quite funny and they're able that's how they establish connections so guys. If that's you then by all means go for it right gopher and there's no reason why you can't do that in English to if you're at the right level how long John should interview last. That's a good question well a good interview where where things are going well. I think around forty five minutes to an hour yeah so yeah the shorts of the interview the the worst things things have gone. Do you have any stories here about an interview that that you had that went really well where you're able to chat with them. Yeah for sure one interview that I'll always remember go. She went on for over an hour and it just didn't feel like an interview. It's whole so <hes> it was like a long shot with an old friend basically oh that's awesome. Did you end up working at the place. Did you end up getting hired. Yes like it's okay yeah I was. I was <hes> told at the end for the end of the interview. Even that I got the job and out of one hundred fifty candidates yeah I was the guy yeah and usually that kind of setup also ended up being a great fit in terms terms of like workplace culture forest. Was it a good fit for you I mean. Did you enjoy working there. It was yeah I had a great time me and my boss <hes> we got on the House on fire the yeah it was definitely a sign of things to come so. Yeah no that's an interesting idiom that you just use. What was that again? You got on like like like a house on fire sounds horrible but it's a good thing. Is that a common idiom in British English locales on for awesome. I like that I like that so it means that just to get along with someone very well right exactly yeah okay. I love it. I love it okay so far the things that we must be doing in an interview number. One is the physical we shouldn't be fidgeting. We should use humor humor if we can. We should break the ice. Is there something else that we should be doing that. Maybe some people skip over and forget to do go shum so I can't think of I think what what was your what about providing abiding numbers that kind of idea like Oh yes so yes so that would be moving on suit to my second tip yes to to provide numbers. Okay sounds stupid but I I think this is a very important so usually you're going to be in an interview situation in in front of a panel <hes> usually around three people <hes> trying to try and figure out which of those people will be the guy you <hes>. You will be reporting to if you're hired. That's the person to focus on this. This personal probably have the final say whether you're hired or not you want to impress that person the most that I'm going to ask you some very tough questions as well so yeah having samples ready so you want to talk about challenges faced problems he solved achievements from previous jobs but the most important thing here is to provide supporting facts and figures oh okay so what kind of fat what kinds of facts and figures are we talking about for example. What should we have prepared? Yes so just thinking back to my job my own personal job experience so when I was working in Spain we working with orders on we received orders and we put them through the system is very complicated but at the end of the day I could say things like well after after a certain period of time after let's say six months or a year order input hut gone up from twenty per day to thirty per day you could also use little phrases like <hes> rose by thirty three percents or increased by a third. I love this on explain. How how the how you did that? Yes I love this. This is so good. This is kind of the next step that I think a lot of people don't do this when they prepare for an interview but guys is you should have these numbers in your head and memorized absolutely because an employer wants to know what kind of value you're going to provide for them so it's your job to paint the picture for them in English of how that will look for their business right up and the the facts when you do the academic writing so it's fine so half these numbers in your head and renown but you have to phrase them correctly. That's that's difficult for native speakers so I'll see you get. Given data and you have to explain the charts and the graph so so all of this language like rose strokes fell yeah yes so it's a right those phrases down learn them yeah. I'm done get them out. In the few absolutely you guys have a lot of our listeners also are taking outs. They may be listening over to the Isles Energy podcasts as well or in our course three keys out so guys. If you're in that course you know these phrases you know these ways to phrase writing task one responses so go ahead and use those I love it so good okay so John what would be your next tip then the third thing that we must be doing during an interview. What do you think <hes> yeah so <hes> my thoughts that would be asking your own questions this <hes> this is usually at the end of an interview but I think it's important to to come up with your own questions? During the interview again this goes back to my first points of making all of a conversation instead of them foreign questions you for for an hour. Ask You questions <hes> it shows that you're interested and <hes> yeah go for it so yes. I just want to go back doc and talk about something that happened to me when I was younger so yes. If if you're going to be things that you probably have never heard of before especially in technical jobs so just be honest. My is my advice admit that you don't know what it is and it's an excellent opportunity to ask questions about sit yeah yes if you don't have any experience of its sound interested interested and keen to learn about whatever it is <hes> and yet turn into a conversation so is that something that happened to you then specifically during an interview where they asked you questions that you are just not sure of what they were talking about or yes this. This happened to me so I went for an I._C._S.. Fuel of computers and computing they asked me what a d._N._S.. Server walls I kind of knew but I didn't really know and Michael Down. I try to wing it which to to get up. Get up as you go along yeah so yeah yeah yeah yeah. That doesn't look good and you're smarter mine now so much so many years later. How would you have handled that you would have admitted that you didn't know and you would have just said maybe asked what it was or I would have expressed my desire to to learn more about it? <hes> Yeah Yeah Yeah for sure yeah awesome. I love it. That's good. It's good to learn from your stories yeah. It's good to learn from other people's stories of how they've handled job interviews guys these are. Really important facts now the idea of not fidgeting you know going with breaking the ice also providing numbers and finally asking your questions. These are all ways that you can build that report that is so key to getting the job is so important. I know you think John Yes absolutely I want to quickly just mentioned <hes> the types of questions that you should be asking okay and at the end of the interview the definitely going to say do you have any questions and and this is where you can show that you have research the company. This is very important as well. You must get on the incident and read up as much about the competitors etc and you've got to be asking open questions so see you don't want to be asking. Yes no no questions because it's going to kill the conversation see. Won't you wants to be asking why how <hes> such yeah that's so important yes so so instead of <hes> who are your main competitors which will just they'll. They will just be able to rattle off one or two competitor names. I asked them. Why do you think you'll competitors? Products are so good <hes> while they better while they worse than your own product success yeah that's it opens up a conversation. Oh it's a completely different question right. It's a completely different line of inquiry into different starting a really interesting conversation especially if that interviewer is interested in what they're doing. It's going to build that connection immediately immediately guys again as we see everything comes back to connection and report and it's so important in an interview so important yes I love it. I love it. This is great well John. This has been great. It's been so good to have you in. Just talk about this topic. I bet some of our listeners are looking to apply for new job this summer so they'll need this advice from you so sure they will awesome so John. Where can our listeners find you to potentially work with you to prepare for some interviews this summer or work on their business English in general Oh yeah sure <hes> so I'm on mytalk DOT com danger there so if you go to ice hockey dot com forward slash teacher forward slash one zero two six nine three to take you to my profile Oh and you can check my availability there okay excellent and guys just as a first step before you go to the profile you can actually enter with our special link if you want to get tenuous dollars to go towards your second lesson on I.? Talkie <music> so start at all ears English dot com forward slash I._T.. A. L. K. I. and then your step to would be to go over to John's profile after you have registered as a new student in I- Talkie John. Can you say your profile one more time for our listeners sooners absolutely Lindsey. It's one zero two six nine three two all right. This has been great. Thanks for coming on the show again. Don I appreciate it happy to have you here. Pleasure Lindsey thank you all right have a good one okay bye bye. Thanks so much for listening to all ears English and if you need a seven or higher on your aisles exam to achieve your life vision than our insider method can get you there start with our free video series.
Noisemakers April with Stella Donnelly
"You're listening to the noise pop podcast. I'm Adrienne Spinelli coming to you from different. I do does in San Francisco, California. We're back with a good old fashioned noisemakers episode for April following our dispatches from south by southwest Austin, Texas, and our very own noise pop festival here in the bay if you wanna hear about who are stand at acts of those festivals where and listen to some of their music along with it definitely go back episode archives and check them out for now, we've got new tunes share this month with a lot of overseas talent in this mix including conversation with the delightful, Australian artists Donnelly in the middle of the episode caught up with her before San Francisco show and using from Stella in another handful of artists makeup this mix including the tenure hearing underneath right now. It's a track all the orange canyon of keyboardist Kiefer's latest EP on stones throw record called bridges. With that. Let's get into it. This is the noise podcast, April noisemakers episode. Let's get started with new music from Neil for Jagna. She's a British singer. And I just can't put down her. Most reason I'll them Miss Universe out. Now, an ATS records and don's been getting all the buzz including a pitchfork best new album tag. And all that reminds me of the tears album devotion. They came out last year, but newly I music feels much more pop immediate. It's this jazzy soul pack twist on rock and the album packs of Wapping seventeen tracks. But they're also forget an intriguing top to bottom, especially the one. We're about to play. This one's called paralyzed by Neil for Jagna. The phone. Greene's thinking. Only. Man. That was Neil Jagna with paralyzed. Local pick. This comes from a group. We've played a number of times in the show mainly because we fucking love him. Dow's atlas they just dropped their latest EP called the mystic on April nineteenth came out on tender loving empire. Records and singer. Sandra Lawson do did a really sweet you in a with my friend, Nina tob ios at the bay bridge talking about among other things the narrative this record. And how it's framed as a SCI fi fantasy of two first generation jeering American women accepting a mental health diagnosis, and we'll link that piece on her, blog and noise, pop dot com slash podcast. You should really check it out and find out more about this record the track. We're gonna play called the comms. And I love how breathy Sanders vocals are. Here tells Alice have always built these uniquely mystical atmospheres and their music, and this track is no different in that regard. But I will say that it's like nothing I've ever heard from them before and somehow still manages to be very much. Dell's Alice track shot these cats are very good people. Good bay area band. Go. See them Saturday may eleventh at star line social club in Oakland. And for now, here's bells atlas with the combo. Maybe you lack. Not. Jay. Two. Maybe maybe. That was the concert by bells. Atlas? Spe- come Cannock that. I'll be sweet schuch Muffin with crave. This. Next segment. I had the pleasure of sitting down with stone. Don Lee before her sold out show a cafe or last month, and it was a hell of a night. She's just charming on stage. And if you haven't heard of Stella yet, she's an Ozzy singer-songwriter on the secretly Canadian label who makes music that's both piercing and whimsical at the same time. I discovered her two years ago it south by southwest and she's been on a steady upward trajectory ever since her debut album. But where the dogs just came out. And it's one of my favorites of the year. So far, no doubt. Let's take to my short conversation with Stella. And then we'll hear track. Let's do it. I'm here with Stella Donnelly. Hello having me. And so we're we're around the corner from cafe toward where you're playing tonight. And it's it's nice to have having a Cup of tea here, and this outdoor patio, and it's it's a lovely day after noon after the rain in San Francisco, it's been spoonful to be here, we go through the rain. Three days from Portland. And. Yeah, it's. Yeah. Breathing fresh air out here in San Frans really nice, Raymond Portland Hongo figure. Yeah. Right. So the show so that's night. And you're playing with Webster, and you guys are label mates now secretly Canadian and your album where the dogs came out March eighth congrats on your debut LP. Thank you so much. I actually had no idea that the show sold out. So thank you for telling me that as well that just put of a spree by. There's a lovely. I think it's it's a testament to how your music has been spreading. And people are starting to to hear you enjoy you're putting out your from Western Australia. Are you from Perth originally or where these very sprawled out suburb? I guess a city sorry. So I live now in a place called Fremantle, which is I guess less than an hour drive from Perth, but it's port city, and it very much has its own identity separate from Perth in a way, and has a very beautiful culture of music and food, and and all that sorta stuff so that's where I live now. But I grew up in the northern northern suburbs that the real kind of outskirt suburbs of path in a place called queens, rox and used to be an old fishing town. But then suburbs just kind of built up around, you know, the soda story. You know that sort of thing. So. Yeah. Pets always been home. We have a bit of a stint in Wales in the UK when I was young my mum's Welsh, but other than that. Yeah. Western astray the place to be. You've been you've been I guess we met this past year two thousand eighteen that's by south west a little bit. And I was kind of where discovery of music, and you were just up there on your own. And now, you've got this your touring a five piece now, it's pretty crazy. I mean, it's really nice to to be able to kind of have my friends along board with me, you know, and and just be that experience all the the fun things and the tough things, but mostly just like the great times at the shows and stuff, but you know, I definitely do still split the set in half and I play solo as well. Because I think it's really important to be able to kind of communicate the song the way that it was always meant to be communicated, and with many of my songs, there's there's no compromise for, you know, the the effect you can have just by playing guitar and singing the lyrics. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's to your songwriting a little bit especially on this album talk a little bit about the the the tag stick personalities that kind of inspired a lot of these songs. Yeah. I mean, I've always kind of I've always found inspiration in challeges voice found challenging people quite humorous, and people that have challenged me, you know, in my life. I've always tried to process it in a way that I'm able to kind of not only kind of criticize them, but also criticize myself in the situation, and and find a way to kind of analyze whatever it is. I experienced right on right on. Well, we'll come back to that. In a second. We talk about the song they were gonna play. But I want to ask you a couple of fun questions. The first one the the cover art for your for rush. Metal is one of my favorite things ever. It's you'd stuffing a bunch of spaghetti red sauce and your face. How did that come about? We'll funnily enough that was we've. My my Qatar now, George he's toga for as well. And we would just go around streets near hometown and take some photos full the pay. And we just thought let's get a quick lunch before we do it. And I was sitting aiding the noodles, and George was setting up the film on his camera. And he's like oh quickly with the Beatles. Took and then win about another three hours taking terrible voters around Fremantle. And then got the film back in the first fighter. That was on. The pile was the AP cover pretty funny. Yeah. It's Brian cover. Our we'll we'll link the cover art Russian post. A photo of an are blogging noise. Pop dot com slash podcast. People can go back to and have a laugh. Okay. Another question dining, maybe you could shed some light on this. Why do Australians love the Simpsons so much? That's a good question. There more. I'm a Simpsons nerd, I always gonna myself. He's uses a total door for the Simpsons. But I have better conversations with ozzy's about the Simpsons than with Americans. Totally. I mean, I was one of these kids whose parents. Must like walked poss- me watching the Simpsons. And there was like one inappropriate jokes. I was forever banned from watching Simpsons child, but my whole band and all my friends what a travesty by the terrible. I actually do feel like I've missed out on a bunch of historical knowledge because I feel like this actually does teach. You a lot about everything, you know. And that's how most of my bandmates like talk. They just like Clinton Simpson's quotes. And I'm constantly like, oh, what's that? From hoping that they'll say something that migos finding nemo and no it's the Simpsons. Yeah. Ustralia does obsessed with it. I guess that knowledge of what the USA is which I don't know if it's a good thing or bad thing. Really Australian up soda. It's kind of a funny one too, which is not really quite the knowledge what it's like, an Australia. The more of slapstick look at it. I see you've played Fay's knee before. I already know that from my own band coaching the episode. I haven't even seen it myself. My great people. So it really they should be here right now to be honest. Reunite with them and in a little bit here before you soundcheck. And before you do that. Let's talk about a song wanna play for listeners. And it's from the new album from me where the dogs, and I think it was the last single, right? It's called tricks. Tell us about tricks tricks kind of came as as always it was always meant to be a little playful jab at a certain sort of ustralian caricature. Really I used to play covers in pubs. And I used to just kind of be standing there playing, you know, I don't know kiss me by sixpence on the rich. But I'd have you know, these dudes standing at the by yelling, these kind of old men yelling and be going play. I say as say play some Johnny cash come on. What are you doing women and that just kinda heckle me for three hours and I'd play for three thousand eventually do? Shitty. Covers should we own I long, and then you know, and then go back the way Ken in the whole thing repeat, you know, they knew that place ninety my place, and we would just have this war every weekend. And in a way, I just wanted to kind of poke fun at them. And finally kind of you know, they they only really listened to me play when I played what they wanted me to play. I guess that's kind of where the course came from. And and yeah, just kind of making fun of their character in a way. Yeah. It's it's a fun song. And I think that it kind of speaks with the fund that it's like you're having on this album and then probably on tour, and you've kind of been on the road for while. And just sounds like you're having a ball out here. Yeah. It's been psych. Right. I love it so much. I mean, there's a beauty in touring alone. And and you know, discovering things and you kind of put yourself out, they more, and you meet new people and all of that stuff. But there's you know, this something really special about getting to experience this stuff. We do best friends, and these people in my band of people that, you know, have lifted with for very long time and play music with another bands. And yeah, I feel like it's a real beautiful time right now. Yeah. Awesome. Well, we're looking forward to the show go listen to the album, but where the dogs that's out now and secretly Canadian stalled on thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. Burkle play. Machar you break all the play. The back of the. Gonna quit. Yeah. Cross. Up. Jack. To pull you out of the. Case. Me. Like you with? If. Yeah. Where? Accu wear. That was tricks by Stella Donnelly. Thank you. Generally, speaking, electro, pop and dance pop really tough sell from these days, it's hard to well and not sound cheesy or like trying too hard to appeal the lowest common denominator mainstream crowd. But these cats right here, they got it down proper. They're called Alaska Lasca and they're from south London. Their songs are this riveting confluence a sound you'll hear saxophone and really cool steel drum effects in the mix and their debut albums called the dots. It's out mate. Third on the marathon artists label this one's called moon. And I know when you hear it you're gonna wanna dig deeper on these guys have a ball. This is Alaska Lasca with moon. I see. That was Alaska Lasca with moon. I'm going to answer. Protecting. At the end of twenty seventeen we had Kevin more beyond the show when we named a City Music our album of the year. Now, Kevin's got a new album to out April twenty-sixth, but this segment is about him. It's about the artist he told us about in that conversation as having his favorite albums that year. And now she has a new album coming out on the same day as Kevin okay? I'll cut the mystery crap out here and tell you that it's eldest Harding from New Zealand her third LP designer drops April twenty six on four AD and the first two singles have just been totally stunning. Her voice. Soothes and our music pacifies. The darkest of moods. The latest singles called fixture picture, but we're gonna play the lead single here the barrel. Damned if this track just won't quit will also link the quirky video for at our blog because it's worth watching for sure from the album designer here's Aldus Harding with the barrel. Hi. Due to me. Tiso? Can. Good. Two. Side. Not with me. Everyone. Sure. Has. When you have. Begins surprising. Onto. Canape? Patty. True. Straw. The. That was the barrel by Harding. Last song. Here comes from one of the greatest bans on the planet bar. Aban will absolutely positively never fall off hot chip just announced their seven p called a bath full of ecstasy, and the lead single was total banger it's called hungry child. And it's vintage hot dance for music spun this one five times in a row when I dropped and Fresno bay here hot chip is playing the first anniversary of August hall downtown on may fourth and get this. They're playing a full band set. And also a DJ set later in the evening. There's few bands out there who's DJ sets. I really wanna hear but Alexis Taylor and Joe Goddard sitting credible ear for dance music. And when they're on the decks on sweating baffle XI's June twenty-first on domino records, and he can't come soon enough as far as I'm concerned until then here's hot chip with hungry child. Slowly. Terry. That was hot chip with hungry child. Told you guys this mix is going to be very international. And it was I hope Doug what APRIL's noisemakers had offer. And we'll be back in may with another noisemakers makes Walser be live on Valencia street. As part of beta brands as podcast theater on Thursday, June twenty seven could be more excited about it. Mark your calendars and tune into the main noisemakers episode for ticket giveaway for some of our listeners. You like what you heard these leave us a rating and or review apple podcasts. It helps spread the word about our show big time with really appreciate it. Podcast is written produced by me makes an engineered by Kelly coin are executive producer Kevin Arnold Adrian Lee Lamont harbor. Jackie more noise. Pop. Help us with marketing support final big thanks to different I studios. This episode was recorded and it's next month. I'm your host Adrian Spinelli. Cheers. I see you need before.
#343: Breaking Up Is Hard To Do (@CarlDonnelly, @RyanSickler)
"You. Hey. It's so weird. It's not an easy thing. That's just messed up for mumps over mentally just even if it's even if he is going to happen. It's meant to happen. You're happy that actually solve come to an end because it's been a hard period. You still go for a period where your you'd be somebody for so long just to suddenly not you go for this weird. Six may moms could be year of transition batter. So of what some new version of yourself. If you go. Breaking on this. Breaking. Okay. I got the tech trying to think of is going to be insured out. So you're trying to do it on the twentieth November twentieth. Twentieth. Whatever lease big j immoral just happened big Jay this week. And then who's on this episode? It would be. Maybe call Donnelly divorce, you got divorced, right? Gosh. Gosh. Aged not officially married to get divorced. Okay. That'll be what the episode is. All right, Carl Donnelly, my friend from from the UK one of the best London commissaire at real American style comedy so three forty three that's this week. Okay. So thanks for coming on. You actually ride six has a new album out. That's why you're here. Thank you. Thank you. It's called get a hold of yourself. Drops Tuesday November twentieth today as live today on I tunes Amazon Google play Pandora Spotify. Everywhere you can get wherever you go. For a long time. You're great comics storytelling show twice. Thank you twice about the gator. I did and the other one being a ball boy for the eighty four. Baltimore Colts never happen that that's coming out next year. Okay. When our podcast. What are they say released it on that they know just twenty nineteen on now. Yeah. Go through a lot of scrambling. Anyway. So today's episode Carl de break broke up with his with his wife. We're just talking about divorce little bit how fucking difficult it is. Because Kevin Christie's dad provi mentions the car we did this Edinburgh on he came on the craft feast and told us that whole story meal web his divorce or does dad hiking. Oh, man. I was there with them. Then not there with them. But like we had to go up there and do a memorial. And it was just so sad. Yeah. That's that's crazy. It's crazy in any went on. He was on a search and everything to there was on the news improv like that's Kevin's, dad. And then they realized later like the search went on three or four or five days. And then later, though, he probably didn't make it through the first night. They had to like. They had to like kind of face that which also K once. Once his body up there. You forget like you think LA Posey's off Santa Monica. Everybody gets a trophy get up those fucking mountains, man. It's real deal wilder wilder a way. That's right. Comes in at you. It's everything's there's no all the tree. That's right. All the trees were bare because wintertime landmarks were gone or you're just been a fire something to all the landmark trees Newark on. So when you split up with your baby, mama. My daughter's mother you were gonna. Oh, yeah. Yeah. You were going to we ring. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I was in it for everything. And and the thing is too we dated for two and a half years. And then we split for two years didn't even communicate and she came back around. And it took me a while. And then I finally agreed to do it because she has a son who I just my steps on a love this kid. And it was the first time I've ever lost two people in a relationship. It's also the first time ever went back to a relationship. Why did we went back? She wanted to break up. So you have no idea why? Pass in between them do. You know? That's my phone. Yeah. I know. Two two and a half years together and then two years apart. And then a good year so together before we got engaged, and then we were together for a year. And then a right around a year old, my that's when she split when my daughter was a year old hell now. Okay. Really hard. Splitting up. Yeah. The second time was even harder because now laws to three people. It's literally the equivalent of some I going. Okay. I know you need to get to New York. You see that plane? It's on fire over there. Get back on that. And we'll give you the fuck and shot. That's basically what I did. But I wouldn't have it any other way, man. I love being a dad, I'm stoked about are you, okay? With her daughter. I mean, you know, we we get along enough. Yeah. I trying my best to always like did you think, you know, ego and swallow your pride just so your kid can always see you is like, oh, well he did. The right thing. Like man that is a that is a hard practice, especially for a professional comedian who likes to be a smart ass all the fucking fucking keep track of a kid. It's knee jerk to wanna say all that shit. How keep track of a kid while I'm also really good fucking producer. And you just produce your life. Really? I do every time I travel I sit down I write every fucking thing. I'm gonna need on a plane for her, and when I'm gonna need bag there, and whether have laundry back there, I can do to carry as much all the time. I'm gonna need this. Okay. Let's make sure on EBay. Bane suits, need sunscreen. They have that shit there. You know? And when you're a single parent flying with a kid or just any any solo parent. Let me just say that with a kid a toddler new shit is not easy kids into a break up to me would be the crazy. It's crazy to talk to them about this other. You can't just split clean. I mean, I'm already getting things like madeleine's mom and dad live in the same house. You know, it's starting to come now. So I gotta sit there and answer all those questions. I mean, you the girl who broke up with. Yeah. You gotta still have in your life. You can't be like I actually don't talk to her again. No, not at all. And you got to be nice and cordial and siege other events and coordinate, and there's a lot of stuff. I mean. Okay. That's be in a success, quote, unquote, perfect marriage with children is super difficult. You have to be dialed in you have to be even more dialed in. If you want to be good parents. And you're not together. Like, you would think it's easier because all you do your no if you're going to be good, parents, you both have note, the FOX going on doubt into that fight about it. No, we're potty training. This is. What's going on? All right. I I was the first weekend without the pacifier. I was like look. So I'll tell my daughter all the time. He got Baltimore blood in you train like for three days. And then have heard on put the diaper on a FOX at all. Yeah. Yeah. You've got to be on the same page. Well, I thought the Carl about his divorce, but that that seems way worse to have that anchor you to. I think I'll eighteen only have to do it for eighteen years. Now, you don't college? She's going to want to be like are you gonna pay her? By the way when Christmas holiday holiday where she going to go now. Yeah. It's the rest of your life my wedding for me. It's even more of a commitment than of a marriage to to do it. Well to do it. Well, and there's no fucking oaths. You have to take it just happens. It just has to happen. Fuck that. Yup. All right snipped. Did you? Yeah. I realize taking about. Did it really? Yeah. He's like it was in and out. It was easy, man. That's what he said. He's sore sitting down on a car, ride home. But other than that. I was finding day. I mean, do whatever you wanna do. But. We'll see girl now. No, no one serious right now. Anyway, Carl Donnelly one of the best British commerce around for real always seem Edinburgh. His our number's always a fun thing to watch his pockets called Carl and Chris podcast. I've been on twice. Everybody. Please check that out. Do you ever go to Edinburgh? I went there when I played soccer. I told you about never for the festival breaking up. My dad was dying. Coming soon by the next in the winter damn fucking great cities. We did that there. You gotta go for a festival of you. Can I'd love to man, I loved it over there. I was sixteen when I was there. I was blown away by the castles and everything oh man to you. And Jay if you wanted could take both your families out there and just do a fuck in month of podcasters banking podcasts. Get some cool British guests and just banking firm onto a small venue where you do like begging for change afterwards. That's what I do it. And then just go there or do stand up whatever days, but you can make it worth it. Because you gotta go now. Yeah. All right. Hey, man. Good luck with your special. Thanks CD album. Remember when people did those same thing though, it's still an hour. Fucking your best material is I'm very proud of it. I'm very very proud of it. Ryan cyclic. Get a hold of yourself available. Now are go fuck. Fucking meet your daughter. Thank you. I'll keep going with this hot. Yeah. So guys. Yeah. Yes. Oh, man Carl medicine, Ed, bro. And we just talked about what breakup where like his was actually not so bad the ones I've had been shitty. Taking notes on this way. I've got my fuck it end. Bro. Notebook. Oh, you know, what I take notes about like what I'm supposed to talk about in a in an intro. Kevin. Oh, the one from last week mentioned the MSG show on the intro. Well, I didn't do that. For fucking rules mentioned the MSG show. What's the Jewish show? Oh, his MSG show. I guess it's over though. Yes. So I write these things of questions to ask stuff to get to. And then if I have ideas about music, so sometimes I'll look at it for the music, but also says like in the intro cover this. Or that way. Carl Donald boom, I found it Vietnam. Okay. For sure said that Sears fringe hours jokes. Keep you on those are those are knows the myself probably drugs. Okay. Here's some questions. Did you know? Absolutely nothing. Did women act differently after you. Oh, this is just as questions. All right. Great vietnam. That was that was Kevin debt. So what I'm what I talked about. I guess I talked about in the pockets Kevin's dad describing. That his break-up was like who's harder for him to be at Phnom his service in Vietnam. Not the way I'd be at Phnom. What are the same exact joke in the intro? Anyway, it was a good discussion. Carl's fucking funny comic you guys, you should watch them. My breakup have been bad. I'm actually sitting at the site of one of the worst things I've ever done in a break up. Seeler stickler. Yeah. Daughter. Yeah. We'll talk about and do that whole podcast. I'm in front of the comedy store. And I am this is where like I get the idea that trying to judge my friends in moments of breakup because you're just not thinking, clearly boys and girls, you're just not thinking clearly, and I was here Natasha zero was at a table with. I think Morgan Murphy and some one of the good alz like writers in the scene would I don't know who he was maybe musician. I was so jealous and angry. So anyway, we did a story about this on this not happen. We've covered up I'm friends with all these people now. Well, not that guy that guy was but I was so mad at her for hanging out of the commerce, right? Felt like this was my place. My one place I could go to be. To have some safety away from fucking. I would go to parties on weekends. She'd be there. I'd hear her laugh. It was so hard. I'd hear her laugh down the street and like those Los feelers overlay parties. I'm like fuck. I gotta go go through emotional war. That's what what it's emotional war. When you gotta see your fucking x and you still care. So she was here at the comedy store and this line in my head. That's not allowed even though. Of course, I'm not the one allowed to choose that. But I wasn't thinking clearly and I threw a glass of ice water in her face talking to Ricky right where I am right now on this corner edge shoe sitting by the window the window into the showroom. And he was like seeing tasha there. And I was like sure do when he goes are you, okay? With that. I'm like, no, I'm not. The news. What are you gonna do when I was real calm? Under those glass of water. Rick, by the way, loves chaos as much as I do. Okay. Can I I think he actually asked can I watch that? Sure. If you want to. Real calm. Do when a sociopath has time to think. It's never great. And I just walked up to her. And I was like you're not wanted here Kant, and I through the glass of water face, and she's like, oh, she's wearing like a mink coat, and then I went up the steps of the cover both kinda hung out and let my and rage all the rental and was pumping. I talked to Brian urban for a little bit. This comic. He didn't know anything happened. We were just talking. I was being real normal McCallum came up one by one Callen came up. Morgan Murphy came up that dude that writer due to musician. He came up. He was like that Morgan was like Ari. Why are you making this hard for me? I guess it wasn't comfortable for her to have to sit there now, Brian Cowen, man, you can't fuck it through a glass of water and some lady's face and then ten minutes later came back like, oh, man. I didn't know you had a history with that woman. I get heartbreak I understand, I'm not I shouldn't open my mouth. And then that guy came up and goes that was really lane. What you did man. It was like, okay 'cause yeah, he didn't know what to do never been in a confrontation, those guys don't get into fucking physical things. But it felt like to him I could should be physical. But he didn't know how to enter into that relationship. So he was just like it was just laying what you did. And I was like, okay. But instantly I knew like I had no fight with him. Like normally the old self would have been like fuck him too. But I. Wonder why didn't get mad at that guy? Maybe that was me growing, right? Then I was like, okay because. Yeah, it's just lame just kept repeating. I just think it was really lame. I was like all right. Well, you said your piece I think I said something along those lines. So you've said is there anything else? He just kept saying just lame lame to do that. And I was like all right. Got it. You think I'm lame to do that? I was like rightness face though, we were like my memories of that night were pretty her pretty fucking hazy. I don't know how close I was to them. But it must have been close to a physical education never happened though. Anyway, some San right there. Remembering that now these fucking breakup, you go through their horrible. They're horrible. Dunkin had to call me. Like, are you a glass of water ninety two pound woman? And I was like what is your size to do with how fast water dries up. Even that I was fucking. Even that state. I was still too like centered in like logic. You can get argument, but I didn't push her Sali's physical physical thing affects everyone exactly the same glass of water. Anyway, so me and Carl I've apologized by that by the way profusely for that. I still just feel terrible about it was wrong. But I was a kid, man. I was to Fleck and driven by anger. It was nuts. You're not thinking clearly breakup, you're not they can clearly just feel righteous Phil angry who that was crazy. I was right here. I can actually picture out. I've never talked about this wall up in the exact place. It happened. And later the next day. That's how quitter Tommy calm is Ari. You're making a com- comfortable for me. Now, she's she doesn't want to be here when your hair. And guys, honestly. It worked. I mean it worked. She didn't come around anymore for like four or five years. She didn't come around. And I didn't really I got like a menial amount of trouble if anything, and I was able to get the comedy store back for like five years until I really really didn't care. Bobby Lee talking about it. She just kept saying like it's big five years since we broke up. It was so long after we broke up because been five years, I'm Bobby like three and a half. You know, say what it is? Yeah. It was three and a half years after we broke up. What if ducking Brad? I was. Wow. Yeah. But I got the place back for like five six years, whatever it was. And then later when I apologized to her was like, you know place come back. I just felt bad. There was no like, here's the reason. I did that it was obviously the reasons don't matter anymore. It was just wrong. So anyway, I met with Carl and I was like, let's talk about breakup of fun. And so we sat down and his flat Ed borough the same flat that we'd done that DM t- podcast. I think in the same room to three years earlier. He was on this podcast talking about DMZ, Carl Donnelley's Dundee. Mt. Hella times. I mean, more than anybody like fifty times as of the last time, I did a podcast with them. So we talked about that a little bit too. Whereas fucking psychedelic situations. Like right now. I mean, he's been through it. So listen to that podcast. I don't know what number does. Anyway, that's the episode, ladies and gentlemen. Oh, I don't have a title for this ours. I kept tech episode three forty when I got one then to episode three forty three. I gotta come up with something for title for breakup divorce. This is make breakup, I guess because his divorced hasn't really come into play that much. So his was just the type of break-up. So like breaking up is hard to do. That's a pretty good title breaking up. His I is a song by that band with that chicks. Try to go off on her own later. They were talk- town in LA for a while. What is it? Her name is like Jill or something or anti not not saying Vincent Faulk breaking a hard to do. That's not at oh. Jill or something. Right. Was she went off on her own? She couldn't hang with the band of the band's name was like a first. And last name. I'm just gonna play. I mean, you're going to hear it. So I'll have figured it out. And if if not put it on the show, if not I'll put it in the Tra I think breaking a hard. This is the date you have when you have a flip phone everybody. You could just figure it out. I will get it. I won't commit it to memory anymore than I always do. It's something I always forget. Right around two thousand five they were they had control the music while it was on the cover of they were on the cover of Rolling Stone. When it still mattered. Why everybody loves and then they broke up over something. Maybe I'll find out why they broke up in the show. If I do remember the song. Anyway, here it is breaking up to do by this band. If they don't have that song, I'll place on mouse. And then I'll talk about the outdoor either way. Why do they break up guys without details of talking about? This is worth us for you. I realized that now let's start the episode lays John arch pyschopathic episode to forty three breaking up is hard to do with Carl Donnelly. One of the best comics in London. Please check out his podcast the Carl and Chris podcasts hit him on Twitter. If you liked it. Thanks, by the way. I know when you guys don't like my guests. It's cool. I appreciate I look at Twitter once in a while. I try not to it's not on my phone. I gotta like if I do remember weak moment. I gotta go online and search. And do like I don't have access to the account anymore Email. I can tweet hundred forty from my phone, and I can if I Email to my lady who puts them up almost an accident. I can go up to eighty links and stuff I just emailed to her. But I can look every once in a while I could see real easily like response. So like when I ask for like Photoshop, you guys all do pay twenty five bucks. I know. It's not enough your hard work, but guests here make a hundred so yeah. Meghna quarter of what they may still pretty good. I know it's not worth your time. Don't spend a lot of time with the people. Do I always appreciate you doing it? Anyway, was I saying, oh, so I checked the threads of that to find the fucking photo shops that I can just open up real quick. But I look once in a while. And and when the hatred comes in from guest, the guys who don't tag them that is like great, I understand if you don't like somebody, but don't have to fucking go seek them out and try to ruin their day asshole. You know, what I mean to tag? Whoever it is. And you guys for the most part a really keeping it just at me. And now the guest, and when you do the gas. I also liked that you reach out and let them know because it makes them feel good. We're fucking needy people comments, and it makes them feel fucking good. So thanks for doing both ways in the right way. Push a good fan base. And just every once in a while, you guys should feel happy about that. I appreciate you. Lasers arduous episode three forty three breaking up. It's hard to do aware. My now that means I am now in. I'm in London. Oh, I didn't do my dates. I'm in London right now shows sold out, but don't forget coming up. Still. Do you have in London right now the twentieth? Somebody said. Yeah. I just got done with Reykjavik. No. Maybe I'm Brian. I the way it sold out. But I'm in the UK probably staying in London. Hell, yes. That's right. So I got Brussels coming up Reykjavik stunts. Are you missed it, Brussels. Copenhagen Amsterdam stav an odds. Low for Norway Zurich Jerusalem Tel Aviv. Those might be sold out by now where else am Semper. Lynn December second really high about that one. But these are all coming up in the next two weeks, check Ari the great dot com for tickets all these shows and Sacramento Denver. And hopefully by now, I have Oakland on the thirtieth of the eighth, but check the great dot com. For tickets for all those thinking of any of the cities Amsterdam Copenhagen, Brussels stock home. If you live in Europe, you wanna see me check my fucking website right now for sure forgetting Zurich. All right. Let's start there's yeoman. Here. We go. Right. Is that it? Yes. It's it and wash my special double negative goodbye. Here we go to do. What's your name trying to get her name's Jill? Whatever. Here we go. Did you? And. Two-three beers. Nice finish. I've met people drink and then drunk, basically. Yeah. You should get up too early. Like, it's like a late night or the end. You could also sleep you wake up nine AM minutes. Absolutely. Never get not a bit. Like a wake number twelve. Forty five getting out of who. Thirty and doing. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Four four thirty charts at three or four those. Yeah. The whole best of it's bad news. Yes. No goods, you feel get so point. Now if it goes plus three in the morning. Yeah. Kind of enjoy myself anymore chasing guy. No, I'm just out. But if we minute deposits, I'm like, this is another minute out of. I find that end up trying to like whoever I'm with. And then I'm like, oh, I wonder if so and so's out try to find them. And that's why with. Yeah. But you don't find. Hey, you can you could end up with people. You wanna be with? Yeah. That's what I had one about nights where you know, just be nice. One night where people came here to drink came over here. And we had a few drinks. And it goes twelve o'clock got out, and I was yeah. Let's go out, and we went out and then about one I was getting drunk, and they went out we got home. And I was like well for now. I'm out I'm out. Let's stay out ended up just having to stay out of we found. Yeah. It's where you look around your like a one drink. Why am I having three one drink talk quick nice talking to leave? And then like you get locked in. We had to to this windows. I had two friends who went for comedy club in Birmingham in town. And they came to my show we went out drinking off to its and we'll drink in one place. And I said I'll take you to this abbatoir which wanted to perform a boss anyone that wouldn't get reference spot. I said I'll show you what he's wanting to perform about about the guarantee within five minutes. We'll in get joined by some random nuts just won't Cup and out stays welcome. And we walked in went up onto the smoking balcony did about ten seconds. This. Av. Right. Stephen gave him a lot. And then the states. Just the. Take that light and leave. You don't like the show a Sears using the light? Timing was impeccable. They just did it do we think of the commerce over call them dragon flying in order dragonflies animal. Well, so when you're in a lake swimming, they'll come around, and so if you dive they'll go with you, so you have to swim to someone else. And then like, hey, and then dive. Those people. Yeah. We're here now. So you gotta be like if you get one of those. Oh, all right. Remember, actually, go to the bathroom. Yeah. We came up with an idea to have a night for creating another performance, Bah. But and everyone who's cold at luck. It's the coolest bar, and then those people give them passes, and they just let them go. The we stay. You're not missing here is fucking. Not just I don't know. Why know what just goes out? Why it's always the fucking abbatoir. Suddenly, it's like there's cool bars and Edinburgh definitely I've been gone a few happy doing that. I've been so of drinks in nice BAAs as a really nice Kroft bib on a cross visit Wang keep. Yeah. It's the so whole. Last year with with the Rosa two years ago when there's going this heroes. Good good. And I've been full-time on another comedian in one really. Yeah. Small you can actually like joy group and fucking enjoy. It sounds miserable. Biggest fest win awhile. It's trying to Voight. I don't even if you like somebody like like the middle of a deep conversation with this guy. The lack of people's like tax. Oh, you could be in the middle of a radio series conversation. I I definitely had already so. Yeah. One on one conversation with somebody and somebody just came over and said, hey, how you doing? I Don is festival. Yeah. I'm good. And I just. This is not the time to join. And did you get to put out of it so upset, but like that? On the in into raw do whenever I go. But I get you like oh friends over there are join them get going over there. But then when you see like this. Oh, hey, the bar. It's one person you and in some done. And. A look of a serious conversation. Most companies have a spot that. Yeah. Should've Forbes Irv it we're supposed to be the observant ones. We can't even tell like I'm not wanted here. Cry. Join that that's those flyers. I see them like Manu weights home in the middle of a word for even beggars wait for a moment. Right up there. Yeah. I think we should see that people excuse me. He wanted to show what free companies. Yeah. You can't hang out of that the courtyard. Not have a talk. It's hot get it. But also, it's like if I was running fucking flyer to guys you kind of humans. Yeah. You can tell there's a difference between a good flier at FireEye. Yeah. The backfires are just standing I thirty just putting people's faces and stuff the good ones the ones that. So of must I've seen just guerrilla flyers. We'll somebody's looking at board of shows and be what you think of saying that is I'm picking this show and let you decide guide. Board. Yeah. To another human behavior. Not at all. But you see someone of NLP in it. Have you ever tried it flyer? I did it. I came out here man to friends that has shown in boss somewhere. Yeah. And we I mean, I'm definitely carry the the white because I at it. I did it for Jack Barrett. He was going to start. And it was I think it was on one day and hit a free shows. And we were going. So I was like, hey, some fucking get an audience. Terrible. No, anybody ended up people came in. What I think? Yeah. Try to be real with guys real good degenerate comedian dirty but normal who wants to fucking normal comedy. And then. I think some companies are very good at selling things even himself as the type of comedian businessman. He's doing this on social media is based business every about the numbers. But I think most I know pretty bad that side of the worst part as haranguing us. Yeah. You see when that's good like Michelle wolf or when he comes or something like that. Wow. So good at this. We go up to someone who can help you talk to them. Once I didn't talk to anyone before dies hid in my hotel room. Oh, they can help you. It's so unsettling. Yeah. Side older shows in with a foot of industry PayPal perform into industry faithful. Again, normal human being fin set of I for some I. Wasn't that good signal comics just observing me fucking paying attention laughing? Often, many comics who this game this company's plans, and it's coming she left plan to the back of the room. And yeah, I find that we because it's almost like you feel like it's false doing comedy when you know, someone's there who knows doing comedy. Yeah. Like that you wrote as head of time, you're presenting let me just fucker pretend. I'm fucking around. Yeah. But you can't go full bore into like, yeah. I'm a stand up comedian prepared something. Yeah. That's a that's a nightmare. But as a guy not he does what difference does company does stuff. The he he does love hosting that compare and he's not comic. But he's an alright house. He's quite quickly. The crowd does his thing before bringing acts on the show heights and such passive aggressive dig at the comedians hillside, guys, you know, I'm just a high hit just mess around chatting guys. So you know, I'll be coming back on the night. We'll chat the Comey's now come on and do that pre pets, and he said in a sense he says had he claims he's doing it too. So of make them chewed into the fat, you're gonna just talk it's interactive. When you hear him say, you can tell he's saying to the crowd. It's made you he's gonna come on Dave rinse bullring those riff. Comex really do actually take pride in the fact that like these guys are gonna have crutches aerial try being funny. Does that? So just riffing end up saying the same things just. They really at fifty ninety five percent of them do. I was at the store sheriff. So this on here before the conversation, LA and. Stace Somerset something from the FRANZ from and then somebody way in the back of different Minnesota. Oh, man. I'm not the first with that. They think you've sat about every was. Yeah. Yeah. That's like what the fuck is. We don't just what you did. Oh, yeah. Get more and more angry. I'm literally not gonna come into the room until here there plaza of the other guy rap. It's time. Generally, are you having a good time here? Yeah. I am actually because he is doing it slightly more chill this. I've not been my three or four nights of being out even remotely late. So. Many times. It's like bold of. Out to the same places and drinking his same thing doing the same. Finally, go over that. No one into to speak out every night sent missing out thing to hit. They have that anymore. You know, what it is to out? So many times once law par last time, and you somebody's leaving like how would you like it's fucking white today. Yeah. Coke is flow. I don't want to catch up into these people. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing in the park. Yeah. See I'm trying not. So the also we're here for like to do fund shows and like it's not enough beautiful city. So it's like daytime and then do your show. I'm trying. It's fun. Six AM. Yeah. And if done as a king. Yeah. Absolutely. Those nights. You get good crew. This is fucking perfect. And you just don't wanna stop. They should be. It should be a surprise. That's that's why flying now for often out looking for it to one or two nights. It will happen at a mice fund once. Yeah. Usually when someone's like, hey, this acid tongue off FOX nine thirty. Okay. Yeah. Okay. It gets. It wasn't planning on this. Yeah. Times up here, and I'm lucky it lasts for years, really. Really grown out of it. Well, you say somebody taking a drug three that you'll like that is. Festival. Okay. You're not going to bed till noon. Oh, yeah. That's it. Does not the right way to go. Thanks. Four. Go on the end of the wo-. I love him people do that. And you're like no way too late for that. Come on come on wrong time horrendous. Yeah. I got the idea of like doing a line if you want to like, I gotta stay up fallen asleep. Yes. We want to be three last night. But not MGM may that's fucking hours and hours. That's definitely that must be an H thing. When you see something not as just keep me. Now. Shot of. No fun. No anything. Out attacks. Sees here. They start at four three or so I'm not going to build a last. Yeah. That's right. It's just a watch sports. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's talk. I wanted to talk to you about the divorce. What I always do theme on this DMZ last time. Yeah. Yeah. Three. I'm remarried. Are you really oh my God. Mary March oh for wedding my to who the one that was living here with you before two years ago. Three. Okay. So yeah, we got married in March and Australia. Really? Yeah. But before the festival. Yes. She'll she's. She's married about two weeks food. Melvin comedy festival who is it. She's just Hannah. She's not a common comment. Not gatsby. Restraint? Wow. You helped her find. Ratio for that. I am. Carl donnelly. Chief Ramage, she friendship. Yeah. Mentioned in shine. Nice one good ones. Had a divorce under my belt already. Yeah. I just I just try to think of excuses. Well, how to help people on topic was so like DeVos marriage. Yeah. Expert over those does your old wife. No. But your new wife. Presume Cy went on contact anybody at all. Buffing? That's yeah. Often, you know, some people kids finish. Obviously you have to have contact. If you've been for a long time, and then it so ends up bad, and you just have to split up. I think it's just ended and just try and pretend not you wanna stay. It'd be sure it's amazing. If you could somehow stay friends but full seat, I need to get how no how how can you be? I I find it broke up few few friends who I've had sex with in the world. Still it's still really good, friends and goodness. Couple of the with had things in the past. And now we like we cannot sheets comfy. But even a hint of that how many years pass in between the fucking and the five. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. We're had to be like, oh that was a that was another life. Not like fucked in two weeks later right now, we're just friends. Somewhere in your head. You're like fuck. Well. Yes. Too soon. Yeah. Yeah. Now, I it's gonna be some time fee. But then yet, I think when you fading in a long term relationship with somebody a thing Madjeski just move on both guys step away. Maybe one day you'll be Africa fy twenty down been up to. Often what you know is somebody you've had some live does not com. Ended up not working out. Online. You saw realize this is what we didn't it didn't work because we would definitely different people because you hadn't totally different directions. That's happened. Oh, yeah. What happened with her? We we we quite young when we got to screw in very different directions. And because we good friends as well. Well, no just for out. I think it was just we buy we held onto if a white suit on 'cause we were more worried about not being friends in each of us life, actually, probably should've killed down, much sooner. It's weird. I always see people like the date was way before can break update. Yeah. Sweet. Because we have any kids. Visit saw friends who I in such loveless. Marriages because Cates I e them, and I feel weird for them. Yeah. Good comic bombing. Oh, oh, oh my. The checks. Yeah. It's totally. I've just I've got one friend who's currently guy food divorce and that should have happened seven years ago, but they had kids, and they wait for them to get what it's like, it's divorce. It's not that weird anymore from h when they can it can really mess him up. Fully understand. My mom always just when they lesson. Really? This is going to damage me about this at school. About friends helped me through it. Now. So I feel so bad for that. And it's like have you ever seen a couple get pregnant to save a marriage cost of west because then you're like fucking over the kid yourselves. But I don't think I mean, I think in my situation, I think we got married would be quite fees. We married as a little so of thinking that might help. So. Yeah. Fallow period. And yeah, we we still going pretty well. Whatever it's this'll be nice. It'd be a nice saying it was it was great. I mean, I love with things man go into and be impoved. So I just. It was great. It was a pay for period of time. But then it com paper over the real stuff. So. Yeah, it was that was just. Yeah. I thought it was divorced in America really want to ask you about that. Because it's pretty much the woman gets half your current income forever. But we'll about what a is. Do you have no fault divorce in America? What does that Australia? New zealand. A couple can decide what we've been married for ten years. We just want to from anything you just can't. So the wedding. You know, go food voice. No, one has to be full type blamed for the break-up. So we do you have to do that. Anyway, it's meant so. Yeah. Cheated because I fell out of love you didn't do anything. But I'm a human. I can fucking. Yeah. Infidelity comes in that the that's the. Godless infidel nothing you you can get on greatest friends, but realize in love, and we need to split up. But one of you have to type the blind. Plus, so we surrender. What why? And then that person who takes the blame has to pay more. One specifies applying. Then they are they are in the position where the other side can also for more and the kids to probably probably, but yet I say, it's HSA totally messed apparently they're trying to change little and make it easier. Now in America minister split in America between either going no we're fucking equals. Now, twenty two and thirty five women make post college women make more money than men in the same positions. We don't need your fucking money. And the other side is like no fuck man for generations. They've held us back. They made us work in the kitchen that has divorce Lou if you get divorced you have to pay the woman unless circumstances like Kevin federal line and Britney Spears was she made all the money. So she has to pay him forever. As it normally about economics who's got money. Yeah. But then it's like beyond that. Because if they're both lawyers making good money. The man still owes the money woman a bunch of money is that normally Suth having children sort of. I think without having children property. It's not that. You can't really have any time for any fence. Well, who gets the couch? We got to figure that out. I mean, we can't split it like Solomon would have. But like, yes. So kids say kids when it gets messy. It all comes from a time. When women were like now, the married go make food leave your career. And then when you break up now, you gotta go to job, and you have this giant way the gap in your fucking do as well. And so then we had to take care of. But that's not a thing anymore. Hasn't coop society? That's it. Yeah. That's off tomorrow. When I watched a documentary about men's rights activists, and it was really fun. It's. Basically, they will old. It was all about custody rights divorce law and all that stuff. Right. And it will sign like stay will everything up blaming feminists for these issues, but the laws were in wait. Old white gazes are ex wives. Just start you guys. Gotta give them some. Yeah. So I think that I find off the move some of men's rights. I aim is in the wrong direction. They claim to be all for this. But in wild, and they find the people in power that can change the law. Vicki in nineteen year old city galleys, go excite on Switzerland. It said something dumb. Manish her for what she even duty. Yeah. It doesn't feel not. So of a little peek behind the actually believe. Yeah. It's also like I think the powers that be divided us all intellect. Yes. Genders defame. And then it's like fuck this. None of all you guys team up fucking murder the politicians and the laws that people out like the divisions are being caused by the individual groups. Yeah. But. They love it. The people in charge allow everyone to keep like, all right? Let's. Fix the health system if everyone's arguing about king, you know, dumb shit. We argue about if we die in America. You knows Latinos are like, we're we're better blacks, we're second worst their works. We're second words said it's like you're both in terrible position. Patricia. Pretty trees. I know how to an amazing routine about what is about. So it was about. It was about as a black community getting annoyed that let's say trying to tight that place. Second like up. Beat up on was he ever hear? Did you ever see him here? Not he came to the K couplets. I never saw him. So I think it's coming over. When I started out. Yeah. Probably. But I know I've got friends who gave him a lot when he was comedy store and stuff and under the way, I heard it was like he was like it's not happening for me in America, go and try to find a place where people should pay attention. What I'm saying? So he kind of moved to London a little bit. And then it started to take off back in America home. Good. He's he's one of my favorites. He's real he was one of those early like, honest comics. Yeah. You know, we think he's wanting the classic ones that he can say any with off because he's good enough. Yeah. Of try to. Yeah. That's missing. Now. He would have had so many blogs about him. From all sides. Perfect time. Got it would've never stopped. I heard a rift. Yeah. I did I did a tribute night last night. So it can defend diet Crimmins. Sean Hughes comedian by CIT. Bye see basis career ever here. Specimen ever win. Pumpkin pump. Been mocking. Now. So he was the youngest ever win it. And and then he became a superstar big Brooklyn, Royal comedian. Towards a massive numbers. Given given free rein any TV show wanted this early nineties, and you know, he was he was a notorious, bachelor and. Young on just had. Yeah. Eight died don't tell you about. But we really could be of remembrance night us night. I've. And I just wanted to go onto so we didn't know what to do stand up to talk about him. See what expected so I did a few stories by quite funny. Do it. And at the end, I pointed out hat. She died the day before the may two hashtag style. It's and I said. And I said I've always said he had the best time ever. Good. That's good. Yeah. Actually, the laws in America. There's maybe Canada. That's my big candidate, actually. But it's similar where Dave fully comedian kids in the hall guy. Yeah. Yeah. So he got divorced when he was on NewsRadio. And then they're like, all right. You're making you know, a million dollars a year. So you her, you know, after tax whatever your two hundred thousand dollars a year a year. Yeah. Yeah. Let's say twenty thousand dollars a month, whatever, and then NewsRadio stopped and he goes well now making thirty grand, and I own her two hundred thousand I can't. So he just couldn't go back to Canada for years. Oh, could you don't just declared bankruptcy. I don't think it counts to bankruptcy or only for like debts. I don't think counts for like, basically haven't got the money. I'm going to do. Robin people. Yeah. The real answer is the woman's I want you to suffer. Yeah. I mean is the that's that's if thing in a bad divorce happened here with a full could write Pala hits. It's a famous legal case where hey his wife. It's of payday beats so long since young. Yeah. Heat them become a professional football riot star of the Premier League is there's a lot of money pumped into football. So he would have won the first full probably in like twenty thousand pounds a week that and she'd just support him after the kids while he was he's career was taken off. And then night broke cups. Maybe ten is rights, and it was the first time ever in this country. That's a judge sets. You have to pay innings coming fool with we used to be lump sum that was it. All right. Here's culture worth ten million split five minutes. She can say self up in a house with the kids. And then you're done. And then you're done. And that was the first case it was in Layton, earnings going forward, just whatever he makes percentage or. I fit does down year on year or something. I'm sure there is something that way drops if it's percentage base. I get it unless you get less. Yeah. You get twenty percent of my income. Whatever it is. But like if I'm not making anything fuck it. I'll give you some of you know. Have you been? Oh, yeah. They had this case where reineck tour this fighter. Who's bitching the UFC about not making enough money because his paycheck was was was this. Yeah. But he a few the guy's got a piece of paper view because they were such draws. And so he was like you're not fucking pay. And then the owner Dana white was like you get pay per view numbers. So you get this and this and this and then his ex wife flick. Wait what where's all that money? But I didn't know that. Him to the guy earned it. I guess. Yeah. It's a weird situation. The fact that you should pay someone. Time served liked boss. Is that thing of if a matching you'll both medical school all work nights at a waitress job. And help I understand that as a cones that I was I think if you know, if you both make you if you make a decision to have children, some of the woman has to give up her career for that period of time on the stand that sort of like she's career that move stalled she's lost threes of development and progression. Maybe something to be said for the whole. All right. I'll give you. Okay. Yeah. Whatever happened to those. Hey, you were with me for the good times. I'm gonna give you some money. I'm going to buy you a house just doing a human face. I yeah, matching obviously there's extreme cases by off the if both people if it's an amicable split. Because it would have. Break-up wrestling. Both. Outset lawyers when it's going as long as possible don't get on the more. We have that in America to that happens. I even like even mine was actually a very pain free. You know, there was no real major argument about money or anything that we didn't really have much to break out. It's nice. But even then the lowest like there was moments when I could tell the lawyers would drag it out and just trying to create a bit of turbulence just because I get paid by the by the letters. I've heard they'll be like if if your ex or if your wife goes like, no, no, we're just going to find the Lord, you know, just to protect you have seen this too many times. I just think we have to put down and writing. And then the other is look they're coming after you fire back otherwise. And it's like you just talked to your ex what say often, I saw of advise not talking and the lawyer is trying to make more money for that client themselves. So ski I made softer. I actually think the individuals probably on even as Skilley of dragging along with see if you just go like, hey, I'm just gonna do it with you. You know, your meat ax together, we're going to figure out what split up if you get less than you might if you're still making way more than siphoning off to some fucking, dude. Definitely there should be just another option of if you're going to break up, and you do yourself and spay basically a town whole sign a thing pay hundred. Yeah. And then one lists all your shit. I hereby announce. Dog like I second. Next TV if it's an occupant chilly. Yeah. Yeah. You should decide on what your stuff you want. And then everything in the middle. They like let's figure this out can arbitrator it'd be like that'd be a good job. Actually, someone who doesn't who gears. The people who don't want to lawyers. Be like, look, I don't know. I'll be pretty fair. You tell me what you guys are fighting over make your case for how much it means to you emotionally. And all the side who gets what I wonder what a legal give me a hundred bucks, and I will take it afternoon. And I'll split up all your shit. Let's look into this thing that can happen. How much would you charge that I would pay five hundred two thousand bucks to have somebody just handle it for us? And then send it to both pies. Everyone you take what you want you take. What you I'm gonna chat. In the middle. Moods discuss it would take one off the we'll sit down every. Yeah. Right. Both of you want. She doesn't want your hockey stick. That's not part of it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Is a nice lawyer. Just be like, I'm very fair guy. Look at my reviews knows files. Pipe isn't it? Fuck comedy. The whole issue of divorce is low his. Ten minutes of what nobody not the people involved. Did you did you have to tell your parents and your friends that you were getting divorced like an embarrassing thing as a bit? Yeah. It's. I mean. Yeah. Because when I mean, plastic thing of breaking up don't end up. So staying at your parents three flings, you just feel that you need some sort of home. No melody, and that was crap back with your parents. I said my parents were couple of ways while I actually because it was it was. It was quite sued. It's named the festival. I say was a state. My parents were month that came to the fringe. So I was in a riot mess, divorced. When he. We broke up twenty eight and a DeVos took it takes ages as well just even once filed its heights, but he's six months before you get let's assign your she legally, divorced. But first year I saw you was that the during divorce our twenty fifteen I guess probably twenty four twenty fifth. Yeah. Yeah. It's yeah. Yes. Just just got into your parents house and saying like, this is what's happened seems like a defeat to horrendous grown, man. But. My parents staying parents the best of times, right? Just it's just off. Yeah. Day old people. Pointed to me there was like if you had a family grown up with the family wouldn't be saying your parents house should be going getting Airbnb or since you're degenerate. Yeah. Who doesn't have a timely way passes when it should you feel like you should be saying their parents. But like don't you just go out soon as a dog, and so is Ed for like a month? Just just clear my head railway came up here to the festival for a month. And I went back to London and smoothed out a day after so I just moved in with a friend. Phone. If. For he's calling me more Landau. I have no idea who it is. Eventually, I'll call the back, but. How did like women react to you differently? Could they smell it on you? Today. Like, I I didn't really advertise. The fact that was especially in comedy most everyone knows married. Yeah. And I didn't really tell very close friends that I was guy for a break up in comedy side. I had a couple of experiences where I was spotted with other and people like, yeah, people I was telling you. Thinking that. Nine. I get one good friend of mine told me about hadn't told her. What was happening shea really angry with me because shave doing? She. And then nights of then Iceland, so what was going on? So I had a few like, yeah. That was the weight when that that we'd pair it. Why I didn't know what still didn't. It's so weird. It's not an easy thing. That's just messed up for mumps over mentally just even if it's even if he is going to happen. It's meant to happen. You'll happy that actually so of come to an end because it's been a hard period. You still go for a period where your somebody on just to suddenly not be? Wait six may moms could be like, we're transitioned bats. So of some new version of yourself will I wanted to a depression. I don't know what caused it really. But I think one of the things that caused it was I was living with a woman, I guess, my wife, but. Married. Yeah. Quick marriage like two weeks. Like fuck it. Let's get married. Kind of thing. Four years. Oh my God. Yeah. When did you get DeVos where? Oh. Oh, like ten years ago. How old are you married like twenty nine maybe? Okay. But one of the things we had a deal was like I'll she moved into my place. I'll just keep paying the rent. And then you like stock the fridge freezer with good stuff and then like she moved in. She moves in after month. I got married after two weeks did in the belly room of the comedy store. It was so fun and nice and do you speak anymore? No. She also changed direction. She got real Christian. I really. Yeah. And then just like we'd speak IV like year on her birthday. And then it was like that just faded away. Yeah. It's a full year's off it. Yeah. Oh it lasted way longer than it should into the marriage. You probably thing this might not be forever. Probably two and a half years. And then she moved out, right? Yeah. And we're like all right. Let's sort of keep going and doing a year after that. And then it was like, let's just call abor advocate. Woo. Yeah. She always said it was like oh soon as we break up. You're never gonna see me again. Right. And then shoes pretty true a word. It was never like fuck. You wanna like everybody was like by amicable? It was like we just started fighting a little and it was like. We just don't love each other anymore. Yes. That's the problem. I think is is such a horrible of insight survey material response when some people love it. It's the end of a relationship some people. Well, you know. Well, you know, I've got friends definitely are in relationships. I love their partner anymore. But. States which still get on and Kato evidence. Is that should be the moment that you're done. That's the rest of your you talk to them. I guess sometimes. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You're killing your life. Right. Yeah. It's horrible and eight well incised, even despite that even them any break-up still poverty this missing some innocent. So with especially with the cleaning because it wasn't like women's place the clean, but I just wouldn't do it. She was like she was like. Yeah. Sure. If you want to that was just her job still living clean. Yeah. Clean even less when she laughed. It was just like piles go off. And I would just like it was just the change in my like lifestyle was just. Yeah. It makes you feel bad. Yeah. I definitely went a bit crazy for the year or to like drink drugs. And really, yeah. Always used to be a bit like then just calm down calm down. When you live if somebody, and it's nice and calm things bit nice. I really have to like you don't have to stay out over time. That's what I was being. It's being single is sites. Hiring because you're at you, you're out like every night. Yeah. Because you always even if you're out on a day. Oh, you're out. Just sniffing around. You always you even if you you in a lady mate and yourself chatting after featuring and then sunny frisked sound starts, you think this might be on. You will always take so four the moments happen any. Let's go back. Ten PM. You'll get a central to mind ten. It's obvious. You're making. She'd never satisfied. So I think yeah. I remember that them periods of time that it just tiring, and you didn't really like all the time. Like, maybe they'll be girls tonight. Sodas on the bacteria mind. It's so weird. I mean, I've got an hour. It's like you probably while you're you're with somebody. But like once I fucked enough at that point. I'm like no with the guys tonight. I'm having girl. I'm sure they are. But I'm with friends. I never say like I've gotten laid down. I saw friends Mark Norman who's like he has to go try to fuck the girl. It's like he misses out on the hang. Mrs it could be like that do this single single company. So I think that friends, but one friend who finally has just hit a moment of realization affair, he's he's he's done it enough. And now, he's he's much more children. They have a treatment of now is so much easier because he's not constantly looking over your shoulder. Every woman was thinking, right. Maybe. Oh, excuse me. Yeah. Whereas in the past, it'd be a nightmare. You couldn't have any any ball with. It was Addy members of the opposite set. So he would sit there and every ten seconds is is we go and it's like this is pointless. What we doing? Yeah. It's weird. How this homey to movement never really speaks about the fact that men are just fucking animals, and we really just want to breed. You know, I must be it does probably get mentioned at some point. Going to play. But it's it's not going nineteen year old boy is fucking hormones. This guy's on us. So of a single today is take until mid tonight as before work it out just realize right of NATO. You're right. Nate have elf anything just it's describes and tiring a waste of time. Yeah. Being with somebody helps with that. So you broke up and then what like let me go right back into that world. I just I just went in a while. Then I end up. I did that city thing. No, no, no reflection on how to not the quite intense, very quick relationship way too quick proper fell right in with somebody and that was a bit. So, you know, great time, but too soon I shouldn't have been doing that. Yeah. And then ultimately that was then you know, that was always doomed doomed. Yeah. That fast ship off to a long time. It's always going to because you're comparing everything to the other person you got him Fru that depression of. Got divorced now with somebody else. And how about how great they are. It's always get bay this. This shouldn't have happened ever. See like some leader that helps their country gained independence and their award leader revolutionary and then afterwards, they're like. Are now we're an independent country. They're usually elect that leader to like, I don't know about education, and how to pave roads, and what you know. Yeah. I have no idea. I heard Churchill was actually a good example of that as soon as when the great, thanks. You're out. This is not your expertise anymore. We're safe. Yeah. But like those break-up though, the rebound ones. Like, oh, your depression break like relationship with only feel you'll normal human again. You know, just a sad. Yes. And they never lie. It's not working I met you feel alive. But then once he recovered, you're like, oh, I don't all your. I don't need any of your strength. Yeah. Which is. It was doomed all with that other person that I you know. Oh, yeah. Did you ever love me? It's like. Yeah. But anus. So STAN type of love it. Maybe we can go out again, another never going to happen. But I get why you want that. It would be cool if human but now. But now, I'm not. I believe you can love a bunch of papers in your life, those belief that is not helping if the one is not a myth hurt. Somebody told me once that you got three great loves in your life. Yeah. But three. That's probably breaking up. Probably how many breaking I'm on. I'm not on three. Yeah. That's my recommend number three. Yeah, I've had three and I've got a girlfriend now. So I I'm hoping. Trend. How long have you? About a year. Plus we met here actually two years ago co yeah, she was in grad school. Shrum oakland. Okay. She was just here. We had a fling and then stopped later, she moved to New York, and it was like start up. Yeah. But like it was ten years after the third one until I really like start dating somebody again. Wow. That's it. I bake. Yeah. I might have had four you think? So not somebody's like we went out. It was good. I was in love. I mean, like when you think about like, my wife that is not one of the three. Wow. Yeah. So what what what would you describe it? What was what would how would you? Like, my first girlfriend. Kate Hicks was just like you helped define me. You know, that was love where you don't even you don't even know what love is. So you're just like, wow. And that lasted for a year and a half and another year and a half after I moved to LA. Yeah. It's just like, I don't know. You're just like completely all in with them. And like, I I don't know. I don't know how. Yes. All right now. Yeah. Definitely three that. Okay. That it was one of out lie thought might pay. But that was it never go far enough to fully site. Right. This is. It's. Yeah. And then you're always gonna compare every of the woman in some way to a part of one of those three s right? I say, yeah. You know? Yeah. Yeah. I've had other loves for sure. Not like, you know, all star team. I don't know. Nice say it. Yeah. Did you? So you start talking right afterwards. Do you use condoms or do not what are the people? What do people do in the UK? Saif country. Yeah, that's good. I definitely think I'm not sh of I've had a few. Out of the few. That's the password have just drunk today. Yeah. Yeah. That's more than my sh. Like seven day window of fear. Like every issue like how do you with STI checks in America? You get the results if you got it for tests, they're getting faster and faster. I text you them now because that's what we have here. Taxed good to go. Get a text from the STI this had Oakland. Wow. That's great. Because you're on a date going come on. Yeah. Chris of Christmas. He's now. For there was a it was a period of time. He had like he he was eights test results. Yeah. And the test results in four or five days and donate your says clear, and he's. From the clinic saying you need to call us on this number Faulk. And he he was to say that go eights. About five minutes code off and on hold for so clear. These include five minutes. I I this is the scary. Yeah. I went to Planned Parenthood gets has once and like all right? So now joining for everything here. I don't wanna come back. And like, all right. If HIV just you know, the test we give is kind of preliminary test. So if it does come up positive to come in. We'll take like a more like full test. Yeah. And I'm not worried about aids, you know, it's just not an issue for me is the big one. Man. Yeah. Yeah. Gets aids aids. Just eat go as is. Raise its head noun again. But but I was like so but says you got to come back in and get more testing questions. Does that new testing ever result in negative? She goes out now, it's always positive, what's. Yeah. She's like. Like, we just need to actually give you counseling to oh shit. Can't just like text you aids and such often of the world. Yeah. It today. Still do the one I used to think the I was Cody umbrella or something when he's test you. Thing down yet. You know, what is that? Like the twenties we had in the UK until about five six years ago. Yeah. Oh, no wonder Brexit, happened gross. Oh, no, do they they've they've moved on making do with swaps. And we had a if you check up and said about checks not to get cleaned to get check checks. What's that was the swap test to put it down? Oh. And you know, it wasn't that it wasn't actually paying full. It was weighed it was uncomfortable. But the how just watching it and the sensation made so many people find if you just think this is going to be horrendous gonna put. Pick essentially down payments. Thing did I need surgery, and they were taken off the bandages for the first time. I was getting real lightheaded. Doctor was like she was like, yeah. Okay. Wants to cast. I was like sit on sound. And I was like sorry. Just haven't had much to h I'm sure that's. Much to too, but you were fine up until you saw these. And I was like what are you say? Because you know, what I'm saying, no weaken on blood. Visit comedic Steve hole through. And he the umbrella thing down the jets. I is the the LDC would have killed it with which I think is culturally insensitive. Boy, he's coaching. Cates. Which now we've grown out of that. But even just used it. But he said that I always confuses you re through or you re. That chew throw throw. Right. But then. Yeah. I was gonna say you Aretha. Oh, yeah. Always second hour and. Yeah. So Steve was getting it. And he. Somebody's did it standing up. Whatever do that. While standing his head on a sync on the white down. Oh trae showed us state if it's not. I'm sorry. Night, and then pissed all over the floor of the saturate while he was painted. So he came to pool its head was played. Pets. That's so great. When you have something or like, you got some like get tested, and you're in some foreign country. Like, I don't know how the healthcare works here. I don't know where I'm going to be like you had to come back in a week. I'm not going to be your in a week. Yeah. Just might say. Yeah. I guess, but it's like I've been in Australia. I'm like, oh, I wanna fuck before the end of this goddamn trip. I don't wanna come home. And then do two weeks you stay just glove up. Yeah. You ever gotten anything? Yeah. It's amazing. I'm these really happy. Made very site. If I had a couple of very drunken stupor migrants up to paranoid. I grew up. Just at the end of the when I was a kid aids. Skins may I was always frightening. It was like you can get aids and die. Yeah. So yeah, I think I. Ingrained good. I h now I yeah. Bubby times feed single off always been very careful. Yeah. Did you when you got divorced? My friend said this said, his dad said this, I guess you didn't have it. But he said his divorce was worse than his time in Vietnam. And I was like no fucking way. And he's like, how are you disagreeing down like this can't no way? And then I got my first bad break up. I'm like, oh, I sort of get it. Now think. Yeah. I mean emotionally, I think sure. Yeah. I'm sure. Sure. Take from such as in that. But see now is oversee must be stresses of wool. But also cameraderie and. Some plan counts. So trench. Yeah. But I think there's no there's pay after bad break up. There's no plus points. Yeah. Like, if you're if you're buddy died in Vietnam. Yeah. You can still remember the good times with John before he got killed. But like when you break up the good times in getting attained like fuck them. That's is that I did a show about drinking Iowa SCA. And it wasn't just about drink. And I will say it was about it was about so of of that. And I it's a show about how after big break up. You just file the how relationship is bad. You really find it hard because I think because your schedule thinking good times is that what might you think about relationship again? Periods. You wanna think about it? And that's how you end up type of to think about anymore. But we've I went to Moscow made me go back and look at all the nice times that relationship there's great really highlights reel of here with a good time. So that's why you gave it for that long. It was good times isn't costs. I can just make you like step back away out of yourself and just be tightly. I'm looking at this guy named Carl. And he's he had some good times with this lady. And it took me took me to the times as well. Have you done? I know I got to do it so difference. Yeah. I've not done any hallucinogen since I've done. I did want to die on mushrooms for laugh. Off one little. Light a light mushroom does. Even that lives just made a friend just it was a sunny day about a year ago and just before the festival just took mine a sign the guard and just laughed for. That's great. That's great and apart. From now, if not the things out the MTA, no looking for some. Yeah. No on the wrong web, somebody spirit of something to think about. Yeah. And when I felt like had almost what's out to that. And it felt. It felt a final boss of the computer. That I was. Take time off plan that game now. Yeah. So I'm not really to urge thirty four. You take them. Jeez. To is is. And sixteen and you stop taking DMC and all that stuff taken anything for ages DNC party. We're gonna have some common. I'm I'm not drooled out. Have not had their fora decided to just wait until it comes around again. About meditation and stuff. So I've been doing the things that on a similar vein, but more not sure, oh, I love when you do like a massive trip on something. And I don't have the experience of my wall. So I don't know. And there's some point we like I'm just good now for a while. Yeah. I don't want it or need it might even take it again. But then it's like that's not doing anything for me. Cleaned. Yeah. That's what I was fout side. Like I woke up next morning. I was sitting there in the sunshine that was that was big. Where was it? What you do? I did in London. But yet it's a shame and this house parties. I watch playing shame guy. And he's begun to Peru in trade into I'm afraid and he's just started doing them quite underground in under. Yeah, we have those in America that go from like someone donates their house. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he's crazy retreat in his back garden really so fell just surrounded by trays outside that was amazing. But it really it was hard harder than any other thing I've ever done. What do you mean? Drug wise, sweating through it just it just fills. Say acid or something even on a big trip. And he got heavy this moments on it you start you might have a little thought of like, I don't know if I'm ever coming back from this. But we've I was genuinely food a phase of like, this is may now this is I mean, I'm stuck in this self. Looking at. It was almost say your life flashes before your eyes is almost that. It made me go and stop at moments. Never look go. Right. This is one of the moments. You think about another locate now with hindsight and that she'll say there was some good at nine of its handle sunshine of the spotless mind thing massive sore of memories from different parts of my life. And maybe just sit for again, and it was so it was hard times. I was crying times fail position where you send him like where you're like. They're at times I was at it was like I was back in those moments like Christmas pass. Times when I was watching it like that. But it was times when I was experiencing it. So I was actually there was one to me about to ban about seven or eight years old, and I was seven right. I was lying in bed, and my mom was sitting on the beds with a cow flannel. My head I'd hooping cough. And it just made me re-experience that what really how old were you then about seven, right? Wow. So it was through the hooping cough again. Well, yeah, I felt I was just taking. So that moment again and experienced it by experience it now in the Senate my head, I was still lying. There is an eight year old by the sense of looking at now it will now as well. Oh, cool. Say my mom being a good mom. Because that's what forgot on after the years of her difficult of behavior. I saw a bit. I don't know about this this bit from my family, and it made me go back into look and say that she actually was decent. Mom for. So we're that you're dealt you. Go back, and you can look reexamined stuff. And if you don't reexamine stuff, you still like hate that guy. And then if you do like, oh on I was an asshole. Just fucking move away from a. So yeah, it did low to that. I had a past life regression on it. As what this is. We. What? Could've just I've waited have had other ones. I've had dream based ones that felt pasta aggressions, and it was to be being a native American. No fucking west. They this is this eighty avenue. You don't have to stay in the same spot. Right, different accents. Yeah. At this. Crazy poss- life experience was an you being native America. Shame. That's all. And then. Yeah, this is the thing. I'm I'm not. I'm not sure about it as bollocks by ribs, really, we'd the Wheatley vivid experience. And that was the only one out of all of it how it was real life personal experiences. I've had and it took me about that part of my marriage every fan, and maybe just have a look crying foam it and get it out. And then got back into the visions come out and have another crying and a reset. Seven hours, really, Bruce. I set a record for the most he's ever seen. Anyone? Yeah. And then just out of the blue in this in the midst of it this way past life, I division of Bain and another lie. Whoa. God damn. So maybe. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, imagine what people believe about reincarnation on that stuff. But is interested. I'm drawn towards these things and this possibly progression was the shame and who's in. So this stuff as well. His past life regressions whether like they're like seeing themselves scrubbing like what is that? Like, a toy that fucking Indian bottom cats scrubbing somebody's toiling who's also not of any note, just some guy it'll class. Yes. Shaman or for grand? That's probably is my trying to pretend something something of house live. Yeah. My friends call me shaman in America because I'm always the one given the right amount shrooms. You guys should fuck it. I'm not just catch up. All right. Well, I think that's pretty good cool, man. We got the shit. Dahmer fit who about my. That's so cool though. I wanna like do some I tell you story about this. It's very quick. But it's linked to the shame of thing. So I've always weighed and this is before this. This was on the trip. I've always I've always tweets like if nights of American just music poetry stuff. What you used to be one of appropriate? Yeah. Yeah. But one of my favorite poets who John Trudell that is is a native American activists. Okay. Died of cancer fees. But he hasn't brilliant pirate. He's an activist for digits people around the world. But most of us about native American issues on album tribally says it should amazing him. Do in spoken what stuff over. I mean. Crazy to be native American chancing, and I go to my laptop. I had a dream. About three months ago. Yeah. In dream. I was ashamed. And in America nicer America, probably so hundred three hundred four hundred years ago, ever, and my laptop which was in the corner of the bedroom. Shop close standby start blaring out the album made my wife up and closed close and by OBT. We were both a slave. I was having a rave about being American and native American challenge player in in the bedroom. We both jumped up wondering what's going on. I heard it was coming from two colon, Iran. So what's up and it stopped before we got? And we just had and I stayed. I'd had that I was made Draymond happened. What I didn't tonight on crepe around. So there is some way this to and I even I get it could be coincidence. Yeah. I mean, that's what you wanna think. Everybody could hear that goes like, well, maybe it was playing before. And that's why you dreaming that because he's already playing. Probably about a week before. So it wasn't close. That happens. Some happen. Another time since it happened. The one time I was having a star. When you close it. It keeps playing for like ten seconds. I could chicken with districts three in the morning. Stops. From site there for sure hacking computers. I mean if stuff can just go. Watching us definite. Are you doing any touring around the UK or anything so bit some bogus? I'm actually going to be and I don't I'm C Kriss Ma and oh who's. A couple of gigs. I actually might be they're not Tober my friend's wedding the twentieth. Twelve to the twenty seconds a couple of gigs and just I've never been to check out. So I'm going to be doing like put your hands together, which is one gig or something and hot tub. Yeah. Brown older couple of weeks going to. I'm just going to be a little bit. So I've never done kicks in the state. So y'all get your spot the store and some one of the rooms at least not unlike the regular lineup because there's so like territorial about pay rent. But yeah, but yeah, I'm gonna go to that Damon days festival or something music festival. Yeah. Are you gonna go back to New York anyway, home this trip, but don't going to just going to be the ten day me and my wife just going to nip over to see friends now? Yeah, I'll try and scrape a couple of weeks. If you. Well, maybe. I'm saying the way home, I'll probably be gone if you wanna go to my apartment. On us co Jason just flying in and out. That'd be fun. Yeah. How many it's? Yeah. Are you gonna do some pockets with Martin? Try because we see the minute with them separately. And of each putting a different up every we saw we also every week. He doesn't I've now got a new co host the team. Yeah. So it'd be entered into every she come into enough. I'm over here. We're going to record some doing bars again are doing just, hey, we're going to Bank feeds for sure. So he's gone. So you just like fucking all right instead of trying to Skype to sounds a bit shit. But in the same rubber does faint me June. You know, really good mates. He's really funny. And we just we called good. You know, poor report between us. This like that. You are one of the guys tell me if you think show because you're one of the guys here who has doing I'm trying not to be demeaning, but doing American style comedy, which is the focus on on jokes and funny instead of like trying to size of. Yeah. This year, particularly. Every now and again, not so of osteo at Mancha was quite story. But even do that you you don't leave. Humor behind the. No, no. I'm always always. You know, I'm always the other job. I think. Yeah. I like to point out my own dumb without American view of it. We're like, I'm not gonna fucking gets cry serious. No fucking way in the World Health say some dark stuff, but I'm not going to start. What was me? What was me? So are you saying I'm I feel like I'm starting to see a change towards that style now here. So it's American English Joel's towards the joke just lets some fun instead of this like dark like Hannah cats kinda like I feel when I'm here this year. I feel the push like maybe fuck those reviewers fucked awards, and let's just put on good shows for good audience. Ebay. I mean, we we've we've environment way. It's so of the same every welcoming everyone does whatever they want to absolutely because because we've got we come from the, hey, Australia that have the festival so we often fringes as well. So this isn't a comedy festival. It's not festival why. So we've been quite welcoming comedians coming into something different. And maybe in less joke. Heavy and all that. So I think hey, we just saw of quite welcoming any fan butts. Do think this is some of the some of the shows. Head really good things about just proper. I'm gonna bang an hour of stand up about some stuff. So I think it's even Hastings like a loose like storyline about. But it's really just a bit that he split up. Our but it's a five minute bit. Yeah. I still this shit. Yeah. This is pretty good has a couple of shows much theatrical in that. But there's a few few friends to shows just straight down the line. Stand up talking about some issues about stuff, but not as. Fully for some starting to see more of that become like, you know, what I'm gonna do this not all but like. Cyclical apple for a phase about seven eight years ago, where there's been a couple of years where it was really really if the stuff that was getting the plaudits. Yeah. Was a year after where all the award nominees proper Stein. At our of just bull called say. Hello stopped. Banging out some gear and then finish it out. There was no sort of almost no point to it. Yeah. That's been funny of leaving having a great time. Yeah. And so of somebody went the other way, I it changes every year. A year. Real cycle terrorists Jimmy car- winning that the golden pumpkin. And I think it's all here in that style. Could never win one of those now just like here's some funny jokes about nothing. But to meet your mind got nominated for it. He did he. For sure that. And that's his style. Is that isn't it was that how long ago was that that would have been fest ever ten over ten years? Yeah. Twelve or something. Yeah. Where it's like it's different now. Yeah. But then again, I what I'm starting to hear from people like those awards, whatever interested in that. I'm interested in putting on a great. I think review is defer views and awards definitely have lost their off just because review is because it's too many is now used to be that was even when I say coming up that telegraph guardian that'd be about five main reviews and the now those five and then as twenty five blogs and websites giving out reviews some fucking nineteen year olds. Yes at a main God hit an abso of their budget. Why would we spend money when are getting lost to me thorough the other ones? So actually, I've just lost their currency. Don't get shit, really. It doesn't matter. Ten four star reviews. Hey, it's almost like free tickets is that what you're doing for free. I mean most. Stop stop caring about not read. I read one review to see if myself and myself reading about because the guy came on a night with my show is just crazy. It was crazy. People wanna see what he actually broke off to. I said I'm going to read this because I want to be interested to see what you thought the audience. Yeah. Because I just met Matt's. You don't they never do reviews because I won't remind either I think it's damaging for comps. But it's fun to watch other people, especially if I was at the show that reviewing fun to see what they say often. I think that's why I read that. I was really fascinates. What he thought the full? Yeah. He say, he actually I think he gave it good account of felt really tricky geic of really because of then not because she was very. Me at all price for managing the room. How I did. That's cool. But then he sure he put in there like this is not normal show. Good a handling Scituate. Reviewing like who's way too hot in there? So you know, what you're getting into sweltering and the chairs of very uncomfortable. I would sit in the front few because those are the ones the padding like that should be review that I could actually this has an audience, you know. Yeah. All right. How funny you are already? But how funny that show show is star in for? Yeah. How hot the room is the door guys. Nice or they pushy way Q. Yeah. Yeah. The rain. Yeah. That and it's just an average school best show in a bad van. You can't exactly that's part of it. But terrible show, you shit, comedian lovely. I mean when you do a restaurant when you review it's like, it's almost never just the food. Stuck in dickhead waiter, drafty? But. Yeah. Michelin starred food. Yeah. But. Yeah. Three and a half. All right, buddy, too. Well, thank you very much a great time in America will. Yeah. Hoping meet some of your past life friends. Have you ever been there? A night out there. I'll probably go a little bit. What you want to get is that it's borderline when it's too cold. But if you can get a full moon night or or big moon Knight. Yeah. Then you don't eat. Flashlights? Wanted this full shadows on you favorite place in the world. I might even. Yeah. I think maybe kids again, something I could try to make some calls for you like that. But like it's the best. So you go put your stuff in a tent your bar? Tim somebody pretty much just park your car right there. It's like take your shit and wander out. It's just death, and you climb boulders, and it's fun. Yeah. I'm gonna do that. I get so jealous people that haven't ever done that are going to like people were like about to start the wire. And it's like oh. You're so lucky. All right. Where's Karl Donnelly on Twitter? Who ends to ELS to to Instagram and all that garbage kill man. All right. Thanks, and then your podcast is on offense comedy is call Colin Chris podcasts have split up and divorce. We will refer to call Chris con now, Colin Judy and not Chris. Yeah. All right. That's the episode. Okay. I'm now, I did not upload that said. I was going to it's been what five days, I'm in Ireland. Now, listen to this list. These people fucking talk. Listen to. Grow up, y'all. That's gaylard. I got a car. I went to I had a day off after. This be. Vigil Louis seal, the Valeo Oguz. Lee to get religion. Okay. He'll is Oguz to hand Margie seal south Dr. I mean, what the fuck that's an actual language. The day after Manchester. So I was like let me go to the cliffs of more. I've been hearing about it for a while. They can ExCo fire some lady dated, I guess wouldn't be girlfriend. Yeah. She told me about them, and they were tremendous. I went and I just flew to Shannon in western Ireland. And then I just let's cliffs more that day. Landed on eight forty five slept in my car for a couple of hours, and then just can drove on the well the next. I mean, I got like a bed and breakfast. I just like drove like thirty minutes. So I found some place that they can see. But then I just drove all every time. It said on the GPS it said fifteen minutes longer this way. I'm like, I'm going that way. Eight minutes longer. Eight minutes slower the app, that's what I'm doing. And I just took side roads from the west of Ireland to the east of Ireland. It was great man who just fucking beautiful country. The weather was warm too. So I was okay. Dude. Sometimes driving just fun. Anyway, that's the episode. Did you guys enjoy it? I hope you see goat face Fahim 's from last week for his his his sketch special on comedy central this Tuesday at eleven o'clock, I believe on comedy central and left, and I get sicklers album for sure get sick was album. Even if you can't afford it go to get on Spotify. And listen to it tell them how you liked it. He'll be back in the we recorded like half an episode. And then we realize it is it's pretty deep the conversation. We're getting into and it was like we're running out of time to go pick up his kid. Like you said, and it was like, hey, let's just finish us later. Let's get back to it. Because we're not giving this as much respects. It deserves a topic. Yeah. Box out to what's better than the box move. When you get a guy fucking stop. In the left lane getting by and you in the right lane. And he's just stopping all traffic wiz right by box out. All I did was listened to Gaelic talk radio and drove across the country. It was so cool occasionally play songs one time it became like it was Sunday. So they had like a Christian. Our I inferred from what I listened to. It was so cool. Anyway, now off back to the rest of my tour. I'm going to Brussels right now, Brussels Amsterdam Denmark, then Berlin. Stopping in there. Dr Steven garden, Berlin. And then I don't know where else. Copenhagen said that oh, no Stockholm to that out Denmark's coming up afterwards. I get Copenhagen's afterwards. It stock on this regardless. Also, I just had a Jerusalem. So if you guys want to go to Ari, Shapiro dot com. So you can get tickets to the Jerusalem show. You gotta do it right now. It's a fucking small room. So get on it right now. Ari? Shapiro dot com. Are the great dot com. Fucking pick up. Tickets fifty. I'm going to miss my flight. It's who I missed that flight to Brussels type. I really should. Not miss this flight, fifty twelve. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Yeah. For sure gets to that storytelling show, December fifteenth in Tel Aviv to an Israeli stories. I have one and then and then my our our ju- in you've OSHA lime Jerusalem December eighteenth at the blaze bar. Tickets already dot com. Also, storyteller show January fifteenth I believe maybe sixteenth fifteenth in Washington DC sixth, and I tickets up now surprised lineup unless it doesn't sell our. Well, then I'll start telling you the fucking great names. You already got going down. But hopefully, just start all sorts surprise Sacramento. Denver Tempe and Phoenix all coming X chair. I think that's that. La Hoya comedy store. San Diego, Steve Simone and another date and the main room one show on the the nineteenth February. All right. You guys. That's the episode. Pretty interesting breaking up. Oh, yeah. That's it was Rilo Kiley. That's who the band was that. I couldn't think of Rilo fucking Kylie, man. Do you drive on the other side of the street, which is already like problem? And then you add in talk on your. Zoom to record a podcast. And now you're talking about unsafe driving trying to text and drive on those can be entering rush roads. Not a good idea. It was so beautiful though. Fucking walls of stone on either side, sheep got. So I went down. I mean, I guess one way road just ended. Its turnaround is all these sheepdogs are running after me, it's hard barking once are barking like three or four more star Brooklyn. They started going crazy barking and actually to turn around. There biting my tires are that was trying to turn. I don't wanna hit them. But they were biting my tires. I've been on. But I didn't hit them. Oh, so fun. You guys if you ever get a chance to go to western Ireland and go to the close of more, it's near Galway. It's gorgeous. I'll post pictures on Instagram but God damn. I mean, it's like you'll see the pictures. They do it kind of Justice. It's kind of like their version of the Grand Canyon. But it just cliffs drop off into the fuck in a bis of the Atlantic. All right. You guys. I think that's the episode. Gotta drive with thirteen minutes. Okay. Is there anything else that? I don't think. So I don't think so I'm looking forward to this trip. I might go to. But we'll see I don't know if we're episodes before the end of the year, I might I might not it's been hard even to to get this done in hotel rooms, you don't have realizing I'm now a fan of doing stuff. It's fun instead of doing stuff that supposed to do. I've already been travelling enough. So you know, what I mean? So it's like double last night a little bit of coal dragged with with with the convex. Twain, Richie both funny, and then actually some late night food that I ate in my bed in. My bed. I'm not sure you're me. Was under the covers propped up like I'm watching TV as an old person. And. Coming from. And then I was just in my like in my bed, and then I was eating. I gotta tell who was a decade. Anyway. All right. This episodes over thank you very much tuning in. That's it have a good until next week. Oh, end Zoric Zurich, the end overnight Oslo stop in gar and Zoric Oslo is October. Is the fifth today? Dude, I have almost getting hit left and right in this fucking country. I've driven on the wrong side of the road. Many times gone looks. Mostly in garage. So it's like, oh, no, I didn't under-. I got yelled at once. Thailand guy. Like gave me the fuck it move over. I think it was Thailand. Right. Anyway, that's the episode. Thank you very much. I don't know what I'll be tuning back in. But get tickets if you know people in those cities stopping Oslo Zurich Copenhagen Amsterdam. Brussels tonight, only company sold out. Said it. Fucking. I. All right. Thank you. Bye. Kill. The. I see. But. When you. Thank.
A Democrat in Republican Terrain
"They take one last ride around the world, the EMMY award winning Anthony, bourdain parts, unknown the final episodes chairs, Sundays at nine on CNN. Hey, everyone. I'm David chalian CNN political director, and this is the daily DC. Thanks so much for listening today. Once again, the podcast is coming at you from mcallen Texas where CNN is hosting a big better work. Townhall tonight moderated by Danna bash, be sure to tune in at seven pm eastern. We've talked a lot on this podcast. This cycle about how different the political terrain is in the battle for control of the United States Senate versus the battle for control of the US house of representatives. And I just think a perfect example to illustrate this was put out today by the Donnelly campaign. That's the incumbent democratic Senator. Joe Donnelly running for re election in very deep red Indiana. Now I say very deep red. It was one of those states that Barack Obama in two thousand eight was able to flip from red to blue, but it's also one that even for his own reelection for years later in two thousand twelve, Mitt Romney was able to grab back. So. Not that it been forever since it voted in a presidential election for democrat, and obviously Donnelly himself got elected six years ago, but it is a deep red state, and it is one of those five states that we have often talked about where a democratic incumbent Senator is up for reelection in a state that Donald Trump won by double digits. So this was not a narrow Donald Trump victory in Indiana over Hillary Clinton just two years ago that being said, you'll know that Joe Donnelly, he voted to confirm Neal Gorsuch. He was one of those three democratic senators who voted to confirm Neal Gorsuch, but he voted against the confirmation of bread Cavanaugh and there was some polling out. I believe it was NBC mirrors poll that was looking at how people may have reacted to that. And there didn't seem to be a huge net negative for him, or frankly, for Claire mccaskill in Missouri the way that the poll showed that there. Was a huge net negative for Heidi Heitkamp in voting against Cavanaugh and at the time part of what I was saying as to why I think he may be able to sort of get by with his vote is that although it is deep red in places like Indianapolis, where there's a big African American population or places like college town, like in Bloomington, Indiana, where Indiana University is and a lot of young people, there are some natural base constituency areas in Indiana in a way that there just isn't in a place like North Dakota or a place like West Virginia. So some natural democratic base vote certainly exists in Indiana, but it is not. And by any stretch of the imagination, really a purple state clearly not a blue state. So for people like Joe Donnelly or Claire mccaskill, then you always have to sort of do that calculus of how do you separate yourself from the National Democratic Party whose Br. May not be at all welcome in Indiana in a positive way without dampening any of the enthusiasm in some of those places where there is natural based democratic constituency who are pretty fired up in their anti-trump feelings this year, and you want them to turn out in bigger numbers than you ever have before. So you gotta get those base communities. So fired up without turning off the huge swath that you need in the middle. And even some wavering Republicans to come on board in a place like Indiana in order to get reelected if you're Joe Donnelly. Well, today the Donald campaign released an ad that is an attention grabbing add. There's no doubt about that. It has him splitting with an axe a piece of wood on a chopping block, and it is to be the visual representation of how he splits with his own party. So this is an ad that is all about Joe Donnelly sh- trying to do his best to shed the d. that comes after his name for democrat. And not be associated with the National Democratic Party. This is how a democrat running in Trump country in the Trump era feels that he needs to approach the electorate with only nineteen days to go in the campaign. I'm gonna play you the whole ad in just a moment, but you're going to hear Donnelly embraced Trump's border wall embraced the military spending increase that Donald Trump oversaw tout his pro-life credentials and slam the quote liberal left. You're going to hear the whole ad, but just remember when I just went through that litany right there, I just want to remind you, Joe Donnelly is a democrat, and this is his latest ad for his reelection campaign. For the most part, I'm an easy going guy, but not when Mike Franchi's lying about my record. I split with my own party. To support funding for Trump sport a wall. The liberal left wants to chop defense spending no way. I'm not into a fair fight. I'm about giving our troops the ad. I voted to extend the Bush tax cuts and Mike Bron. He ships jobs to China. We've got to cut that out. I'm Joe Donnelly are prove this message now, is that going to be the solution? Is that going to be enough? Does he at all? Have concerns that by distancing himself from Democrats at all? Does he depress any of that democratic enthusiasm that exists in Indiana in those base communities? Clearly, his campaign has made the calculation vis needed to get on the air that he still needed to woo over the middle. And some of those wavering Republicans that perhaps they're making the calculation that that democratic base enthusiasm is locked in and that it's not going anywhere. And so they really gotta work in these closing days if he's going to get reelected, those independence, middle of the road Republicans never Trump Republicans to send him back to the United States Senate in the most recent polling. And there's not been a ton of polling in Indiana. I'm hoping we will see. Some more polls come out of Indiana, but at the beginning of October, there was a FOX poll that had Donnelly up two points over Mike Braun, his Republican challenger. There's been some other polling that doesn't meet CNN standards, but this is a margin of error, race and just to once again, get at the math here if indeed Heidi Heitkamp has lost her race already. I'm not sure that she has, but the polls have not look good there. And clearly she had a pretty monumental campaign mistake this week. When her campaign took out a newspaper ad, listing all of these women that they said, were victims of sexual abuse or sexual assault and apparently had done so without seeking permission of the women. And some of those women are not victims of sexual abuse. It was a complete error one with real human costs to what having your name publicly revealed without your permission by political candidate. You know, obviously there are real world reverberations for those women who. Were listed without their permission, which is why Heidi Heitkamp has been personally calling each one of them and apologizing in person to them as best she can. But as she acknowledged, the mistake was made and all she can do is apologize right now. So that was after the no-vote on cavenaugh, which was not wear her state was at all. And after some polling showing that she's in a real world of hurt in trying to get reelected. And then this mistake perhaps compounded that there's a debate in North Dakota night, and perhaps we'll see how high camper Kramer perform where they seem to think the state of the races. But if Heitkamp seat is already lost, Democrats need to then pick up three seats as we've discussed Nevada, Arizona and Tennessee being the three best opportunities on the map for them here in Texas being the longest shot opportunity. But if they were to lose Donnelley in Indiana, then you're talking about needing all four of the states, including here in Texas, Arizona, Nevada, Tennessee, and Texas. Which again is a long shot with a rookie running seven points behind Ted Cruz in the latest c. n. n. pole they would need to sweep all four. If they were losing North Dakota in Indiana and hold everything else, you can't lose Missouri, then you can't lose Montana or West Virginia or Florida. So that becomes a very tricky proposition. Now, like I said, Indiana looks to be a margin of error race right now, I'm not suggesting Joe Donnelly's a lost cause. But these add to me indicates maybe a very smart add. Maybe this is the way he wins, but it clearly indicates that he believes he still needs to win over the toughest voters to win over Republicans who are not naturally aligned with you or Republican leaning independence that you're still trying to convince an Indiana in this Trump era in this tribal politics era to put on a different jersey or at least feel comfortable pulling the lever for the democrat in in two thousand eighteen. It is a monumental challenge and it gets at exactly. Why Mitch McConnell and the NRA see the national Republican senatorial committee came into this cycle with such confidence, no matter what the headwinds were for the party and for Trump the map for the Republicans in the Senate, this cycle has been so advantageous that they felt that the map alone was going to be able to help them withstand any kind of wave barring it become a su- NAMI style way. But obviously, you know, these Senate races are still somewhat moving pieces. We've got nineteen days to go. And as I've said before, I don't think you can say control of the United States Senate is not even up for grabs. I just think it is a huge uphill task for the Democrats and this ad perfectly encapsulates from Donnelly. Just how advantageous the map is for Republicans and the kind of deep Republican turf Democrats are fighting for reelection on that. Does it for this. Of the daily DC. Thank you so much for listening. Hope you'll tune in again right here tomorrow. So many people around the world depend on CNN's quality reporting, and now they have an incredible online store with clothes gear and gadgets. Right now you can get fifteen percent off your purchase, just visit store dot, CNN dot com. And when you're checking out into the code CNN podcast, just one word and get a fifteen percent discount. It's that simple that's store dot, CNN dot com. King's local beef has a difference. You can see her cattle raised grazing on green pastures and spending days in the fresh east coast air create superb beef with fine marveling enrich flavour, but king's local beef doesn't taste better. It Sears far differently than your typical store bought beef, making it a top choice for discerning shafts visit the master butchers behind the meat counter at king's food market to experience king's local beef.
Making blowing birthday candles out safe: BlowOut Pal
"Your destination for gadgets ungeared I'm Fred fishkill. Brian Donnelly retired teacher and tinkerer. Now keep in mind. He's been working on his inventions before the days of covid. Nineteen and the invention is called. Blow out, pal, a cake cover that holds candles so the person blowing them out in the midst of a happy birthday. Chorus doesn't contaminate the cake with an assortment of Germs and saliva. Out of the idea, germinate all I'd say about eight or nine years ago. I was driving down. My. Name Street in my home town. And, like a bolt from the blue, the idea just came into my head. What inspired it I? Don't know, but here he is on Indie Gogo raising funds to begin production of blowout, Powell. Make sure you check out the hilarious online video. You can get in early for twenty dollars. You can find us at text nation DOT com. I'm Fred Friskin. Cooking with the power of the song. Hi! I'm Fred Friskin here to tell you about the latest innovation for my friend. Patrick Sherwin and his great team at goes on stove. The goes on fusion has arrived using the companies tried and true reflectors, and the solar vacuum tube could get cooking without a massive charcoal, heavy propane, tanks or smoke. A really bright idea, and with an optional solar panel and battery storage on the ability to plug in at home or on the road, really can use the goes on fusion to cook anytime and anywhere day or night Reno, shy. I love what Patrick and his team are doing, and so will you want to learn more head to go some dot co, two check out all of the company's products and innovations and use the code textile nation to save ten percent. That's goes on DOT Co..
Babbage: The language of the universe
"When it comes to the COVID. Nineteen a modeling. It can be a little bit confusing. You have likely heard the phrase flatten the curve used. When talking about reducing number of grown a virus cases the horizontal line is the key one whether health systems have the capacity to cope with the numbers of infections. Nineteen pandemic has dominated every part of life since the beginning of the year. Some countries have done better than others. That holding back a disease but everyone has used the same tool to guide their response. Mathematics science correspond detail economist Mats. And I go a long way back a very long time ago. I was a physicist. Mathematics was the language of the world's that I used to explode. Today's baggage from economists. Radio looks at how mathematics can reuse to tackle some of life's most pressing problems. Predicting Pandemics guided health policy to spotting bias in politics. I'll also speak to physicist grandfather about the way mathematics reveals the true nature of the very building blocks. If you're the sort of person who has very raw interests I think mathematics is something for you. I think that's often forgotten like people. Think of mathematics is a very narrow subject. That's David Sumter. A professor of applied mathematics at Uppsala University in Sweden. He's also data scientists for football club in Stockholm goodies. Coming book the Ten equations that ruled the world. And how you can use them to. David lays out how a small set of mathematical formula could help. Everyone make better decisions about their lives if you learn some basic mathematical skills if you learn the ten equations you can go around applying these things to all different types of problems and get involved in in lots of interesting projects. And that's how I sort of ended up working directly with players inside a football club. Now which is just an incredible thing for somebody who can't kick a ball to end up doing but That's the sort of possibilities. You have as a mathematician. Okay so give me an example. The one that interested me was. How do I get rich? That's actually why it started with the book because I'm the type of applied mathematician who loves to apply things. So as I've mentioned I work with the football club but I've also been interested in how gamblers work and how they make money. The first equation in the book is called vetting equation and the idea is you want to find biases in the odds. I think a lot of people when they get into gambling. They think Oh. I know this team's GonNa win. I really think this team's going to win and it's not about that at all. What about is finding where the odds are in your favor so the first thing to do is you plot the odds. You compare this to the betting equation and you can see way. You have an edge. And that's what professional gamblers do. They didn't think about if they're going to win. Any particular maps. They don't even watch football matches they bet on or watch the Horse Races. They look for biases in the odds. Where all of the rest of us have made a mistake and they can win these equations that you talk about in the way that she come from. I mean essentially there. If I understand correctly that formulas for statistics in Peru ability in some sense they actually come from the last two hundred and fifty years of mathematical development. An in the book I outlined my theory actually about how this is kind of a secret society living amongst US and these secret society they publish openly. How you solve this. How you win money betting for example how you can have confidence in your decisions and to give you an example. The Algorithm now that Youtube use in order to decide. What video to show you next. They increase the amount of people watching youtube video all the time watching Youtube video by twenty times and this made an incredible amount of money for Youtube and it was basically three guys applying a minimization mathematical algorithms. So they were just doing differentiation. Something you learn. In opposite country school they were just doing differentiation to find a minimum and then they could solve this problem and they could get us all addicted to youtube so this society is kind of living amongst US solving these problems and making a lot of money along the way. Okay so we've got a situation where mathematics is used in many facets of life from gambling to youtube algorithms to become models. What is it about mathematics that allows us to access and manipulate the world? In this way thing the main thing is that it simplifies problems. There's just no way of getting round the if you can use this you can sort of get shortcuts to answering questions. You can get edges in anything and probably sciences. The is the one that is most useful for so. I don't think mathematics is fundamental in science in the sense that the science is written in the language of mathematics. But I do think it's fundamental as a tool. If you didn't have mathematics it would be like not being able to write. Things actually wouldn't be able to be not being able to write a text or not been able to take. Videos of things is an essential tool to understanding science. Mathematics weren't just held. Make you richer more successful. It also has a key influence on the policy. The shapes our lives mathematics drive the computer models. For example that scientists have been using to understand how covid nineteen is spreading and how different interventions such as lockdowns and social distancing might slow that. Spread down what you can use mathematics for is to describe the processes that are driving epidemiology. Crystal Donnelly is an epidemiologist. She works at the University of Oxford and Imperial College London so in the case of infectious disease. That's people coming into contact with each other so you have some people who are infectious and they come into contact with some people who are susceptible and then you can have transmission. So what are the ways that you can reduce that we could show this by equations? What sort of reduction you'd get. Will you can vaccinate the susceptible people so that their immune and they never even got the disease or you can reduce contacts. And that's what we've been forced to do in this setting with covid. Nineteen is reduced the rate at which the infectious people can come into contact with susceptible. People calculations in these models are playing a huge role in decisions by governments on how to implement monitor and eventually ease the drastic lockdowns across the world. Here's a member of the American government's. Coronavirus VIRUS TASKFORCE DOCKED. Deborah books. I just want to thank the five or six international and domestic model ours. Who helped US tremendously? It was their models that created the ability to see with these mitigations could do how steeply they could depress the curve book how to these. Models Work Crystal Donnelly again epidemiological modelling in the sense of transmission modeling. So that's sometimes those are called dynamical model because you're writing down equations to describe the dynamics the processes that happened underneath that that's what's often referred to now when people are talking about modeling and that allows you to answer quantitatively what might happen now. That's still what might happen based on a set of assumptions. But would I really like about that sort of modeling is that you can write them down and by writing them down you allow yourself not just to help think through the process and make sure that you've done it logically but it allows other people to see you're working so you talk about building these models with assumptions? What kind of assumptions? My you have which leads me onto will. How accurate can these models actually be? They have assumptions about how we mix for example so the simplest model is a random mixing model where you assume that whatever population you're modeling people are equally likely to come into contact with each other any two people now. That's clearly not going to be the case. Even in a household you have a household of size five. You don't randomly mixed with those five people because some of them be adult. Some will be kids so even on that scale. It's not absolutely true. And it certainly not the case that even in a village or small city that people randomly encounter each other. You will have places that you tend to go and you will see a lot of the same people even when we don't count work where of course most people see the same group of colleagues a lot of the time it will always be the case that there's more complexity than can be included in any one dynamical model but that doesn't mean that models can't be useful and that's where we have to focus. The question is an are they absolutely right in the Senate have. They described every single bit of the process. That's going on but have they explained the key processes the ones that are driving most of the behavior so that we can. What's happened so far and make useful predictions on what might happen under certain conditions and those can inform decisions. They won't say these are the individuals are going to be infected but they made a good job of predicting on average how many people might get infected within the model each of these variables you talk about is represented mathematically as part of equation. Not Right. What's actually? The computation is going on within the models. So we talk about in the simple case sl our model so we divide people into three types s is for susceptible is infected and infectious and ours for recovered and so everybody in a population can be divided into one of those three types and then we can write down equations for how the numbers of susceptible 's infected and recovered changes over time. Now not only. Does that often assume that those individuals are randomly mixing and whatever scale? We're talking about. But also that every one of those susceptible people is equally susceptible and every one of those infectious people is equally infectious. That's not going to be absolutely true. There will be very ation. We're all different. But it's trying to get the average behavior right and understand enough of the variability to give you something useful out at the end you worked on many infectious disease outbreaks Saws Bowler to name a few do each of these different models or can you start using the same models with different tweaks go alone. Oh there are some things that are fundamental when you look at it directly transmitted disease for example so respiratory disease goes directly from person to person if you're looking at Zeka That's different because it goes from person to mosquito to person and so then you're in a very different regime completely and as we've gone on over the years we've made tools available. One of them for example is called. Epi estim- and that's for epidemiological estimation and that uses a case data. So that's the number of cases or the number of deaths observed per day and uses that data to estimate this reproduction number over time. Now that can be used in lots of different settings and we've used it in several different diseases but for a lot of the models that particular questions and the particular aspects of transmission will be such that even if we have starting blocks that we need to adapt and tune them to the particular situation. Matic's is not only useful for setting policy but because it's an objective tool it can also be useful for settling parties anticipates in America. Scientists are using mass to help with what has become a divisive political issue gerrymandering. This is the practice of manipulating the boundaries. Around congressional in such a way as to create unfair advantages for one political side. You have so many did analytic about who the people are where they are vote. Whether they're likely to vote that you can draw designer districts to get an outcome you might prefer moon do chin is a mathematician from Tufts University in Boston Massachusetts. Her work involves using mathematical models to identify areas. Where gerrymandering taken place? So sometimes people say that. Democrats people of color pack themselves into cities and because they're so dense in the cities. They tend to be concentrated in a few districts with very high proportions. And since we have first past the post voting. In each of these districts it's really to your disadvantage to have extremely high percentages. If what you need fifty percent plus one vote and what you have is ninety percent we could think about that as as vote wasting and what you can see is how the clustering of various kinds of demographic groups or party preferences how does that clustering lead district to divide up the population when you're not trying to extract extra advantage so something that my group does and several. Other teams of mathematicians have started to do to great effect. I think is map sampling. So I'm going to now get an algorithm to draw not ten not a hundred but maybe thousands or millions of maps at random just according to the stated rules and by construction those algorithms are just taking into account what they've been told to take into account that's how computers work for better and worse and then we can see if all the summary statistics that you can observe from districts are they huge out liars among a comparative batch of maps that were made without seeking advantage. Moon hopes that this map sampling can lead to something a bit more reasonable. I'm working pretty hard with different collaborators to take some of these ideas from the math space into the policy space. But what might that look like? Maybe you have a state and it has a certain suite of rules and criteria that are stated what you might imagine is that the line drives propose him up an analyst compares it to neutral draws that use the same rules and says you know you're doing a better job of these criteria than those and that's the thing when you're doing complicated problem like this typically there will be trade-offs if you WANNA get better at not splitting counties. Maybe you'll get a little worse at population balance and so on with an eye to that. What model or sometimes called Pareto frontier? That is sort of. What are the maps that do well on some measures and that aren't dominated by other maps? That are better. In all the measures I envisioned actually. The potential for collaboration between quantitative analysts. And the line drawers that can iterating towards a better fairer maps want is any of his matter so you can have states and we do where the vote between the major parties is about half and half but there's dominance by one party in the seats and that definitely Piques People's intuitions of unfairness feels. It feels wrong and one consequence of that is reduced trust in the system. Maybe decreased likelihood to vote decreased engagement more cynicism so sometimes that disproportionate that you observe will be the result of Gerrymandering. No question one thing that I hope for these tools is that they can restore faith in the system by showing you by measuring the consequences of political geography in order to show you what a expected reasonable outcome that just has to do with communities where they lie and what on the other hand is agenda driven line dry so I think you know in a lot of cases you might find that the effects of self interested line drawing aren't as great as you thought and in other cases like some of the cases I've been involved with finding just as great as he thought and that even though the playing field may be tilted one way or the other. The line drawing goes even farther than that so. I think being able to pull those apart. That's a big advantage of the math modeling coming up after the break. How MASS CAN HELP? Ac- The truth not only about a world but about the entire universe. Come back to badge. Mathematics plays an important role in understanding shaping everyday life science though the connections. Go even deeper. It was Isaac Newton who gave us the idea that physics as we now call. It is about setting out law's written in mathematical terms that make predictions you check. It against experiment don't work. You have to go back to the drawing board and pretty what everyone knows that. That's the way physicists. Work Grandfather is physicist and author in his most recent book. The universe speaks in numbers. Graham explores how mathmatics has helped physicists to rethink key ideas such as gravity space and even time Einstein was one of the people started this and he wrote near the end of his life that the miracle declared to his friends was that we can understand the universe because it is fundamentally ordered. And it's that older that enabled US understand through mathematical patterns. Feinstein was working at the start of the twentieth century in the past Hundred Years. Though the love affair between physics and mathematics has only become stronger. What's really new? I think is that we're in a very unusual situation at the frontiers of physics. Because there's very little exciting new data coming through safe from the large Hadron collider about the goings on inside atoms but theory so having to do their work despite that. I'm what is turning out. He's that physicists. By looking at their theories a driven tools exactly the same territory as Pew. Let's get back to Weinstein for obviously use mathematics to do most of his work because he didn't do it. He experiments so wooded mathematics allow him to discover just using paper and a pencil. Okay well Einstein is a great case when he was in his twenties and he had he did that fantastic work on timothy where he gave was a new understanding of space and time he really did believe. I was quite aggressive about it. That physicist only need old fashioned mathematics. They did back in the stuff that you learn in your basic classes and anything more than that indulgence as he a pure luxury. That's the word he used. And he believed that until nineteen twelve at it was then he was developing his new theory of gravity and he found. He couldn't do that without mathematics that was in effect unknown to him and Gals and remote and people like this good again. Not Having I thought about gravity had set out the perfect tools for Einstein to import into his theory of gravity. That you mathematicians actually. They did both actually but yes. They were mainly mathematicians and that's what convinced Einstein. The advanced mathematics was something that he other needed. And so the idea is then. Einstein comes up with those that you need an advanced mathematics. Pops aren't necessarily related to physics ideas but then kind of in discover new physics. It's sort of flowers really isn't doesn't take us through those sorts of heady years of multiple Nobel Prize winning scientists. How long have you go? We just Stein? He events arguably his great piece of work at the twenty sixth grade using which was that new theory of gravity based on that new mathematics. Shortly after that came the most revolution redevelopment in science the whole of signs in the twentieth century which was quantum mechanics. The theory of motion on atomic scale turned out to be if you like a complete break or so it seemed from the theory of motion that Newton dot hundreds of years before a gain. Those pioneers found that they had to use new mathematics that it only being out in some cases you know five ten years and this mathematics was what you needed to look matter on the microscopic scale. Now the real puzzle and it's still there as we speak. This puzzle is still here. You have to great theories. You have the classical theory of relativity of gravity and you have quantum mechanics. Gravity has its own mathematics and quantum mechanics is actually rather different. The mathematics look very different. And also it's got probabilities in it. Which Einstein abominated in the sense that he really believed that you should we had to predict. Is Paul Wrist? He's not that they've randomness in nature which called mechanic says areas now the big challenge for physics and said it's endured right to this day. It's still problem is how to jam those theories together to get something that will enable us to understand all of nature of the general-level to the the mathematician if I can say of physics has achieved great things and will continue to do so but is mathematics always real. Mathematician comes up with ideas for some new mathematics. Is it always the case? That's going to be something physical. Most of the really top notch appeal mathematicians. Don't give a tinkers cuss about physics right. They do it because they are working in wizardry. Eight hardy on patterns of ideas that interests them just for the sake of it right. They are not thinking. What does this got to do with nature? The key thing is. We're now finding that the two frontiers of overlapping even mathematicians who deal with stuff that looks to be completely irrelevant to anything to do with. The real world is actually relevant to the real world and by the same token physicists when they look at your colts and you glue on his side every atom in your body and everywhere else right you look at those subjects deeply enough and you'll take it into the world of mathematics that cross either has pushed scientists fat opening up new avenues discovery. The biggest milch cow so to speak at this field is being string. Theory string theory basically says instead of thinking of things like electrons and photons or what have you point particles rather there's an elementary string and the mental particles exi- -tations of that so called string very very short pieces of string in space time that subject as consistent with quantum mechanics and relativity. That's the first thing to say. And the reason why people love that theory you have so much facing it to quote the Great Edward Witten. Who is the of that field that subject showed why gravity must exist? You're Georgia drop. When you hear that. Gravity is just brought in right. It must exist as a result of relativity and quantum mechanics. Absolutely amazing thing. Now if you look at that theory which is has to be said is very difficult to test an issue very very high energies but in the expiration of its consequences we find ourselves take into all sorts of things to do with combinations of Algebra geometry things to do with curvature fields many many subjects that mathematicians are looking for their own reasons but the physicists need in order to discuss how those strings could make up the real world so the mathematical physics is just way ahead of the experimental right now a mighty conversations with people doing these things sometimes say they might take hundreds of years to develop the technology to test the things that are coming out now because mathematics. You don't need anything more than a paper and Pencil. Ibm Software on these things. But what did you think is sees the big promise? The mathematics has for visits. We've talked about how it can really shoot Ford and you think about different things and CD investor friendly. What kinds of promise is there in the future for this? Then physics is GonNa have to get used to long periods when we won't be teeming with experimental results because they're getting more and more expensive to produce from the telescopes from the expensive collider's they'll be these gaps. We have to fill now because I think mathematics see so thick on the field it will enable us to do creative work wall there those gaps. That's what I suggest in the epilogues on my book so I think mathematics is proving its worth and value even when we haven't got the experimental input. Matic's not only lets us see the future physics unseen parts of a unit as we'd had it describes the hidden Hatton's around and gives us the ability to control and predict. That's all for this episode of Bob. Thanks coach David. Sometimes Crystal Donnelly Moon Do Chin and grandfather for more great stories about science and technology subscribe to the economist comments dot com slash radio to get twelve issues. The twelve dollars. Twelve pounds jaw and in London. This is the congress.
Stella Donnelly Takes On Rock's Patriarchy With Debut Album 'Beware Of The Dogs'
"Support for NPR and the following message come from Amelia Island, Florida a barrier island on the northeast coast that captivates visitors with thirteen miles of uncrowded beach championship golf, natural beauty and a historic district Amelia Island dot com slash NPR. And finally today, let's go to Austria to check in with a singer who's making a name for herself far beyond that country's borders. Stella Donnelly, she's getting noticed for a tell it like, it is style that tackle some of the toughest issues. Here's her breakthrough track. From two thousand seventeen boys will be boys. Bulled storytelling continues on her debut album, beware of the dogs. Still Donald is with us now from Sydney, Australia, still Donnelly, welcome. Thank you so much for talking with us. Thank you so much for having me your songs have so much their own style. I mean, they can be weedy. They can be laugh out loud. Funny, at least to me. And yet, they really pack a punch, and I understand that you spent years in a cover band. So I'm wondering like how did you come up with your own sound I spent about four years in a cover band? And then I I went onto play in other original projects that that weren't my own. But I was kind of contributing to as a as an instrumentalist. And I think it was just all of it put together eventually shaped what I wanted to sound like and what I didn't want to sound like it just eventually seeped into my songwriting. I have this idea that this is what it sounds like when you're with your friends talking do people who know you say. Yeah. That's that's how you are. Yeah. Absolutely. And I think when you get to record an. Album. It really lousy you to show that for me music is about betraying myself and about being really honest. So when you put an E P at you've only got four or five songs to really do that with whereas with an album, you can kind of take your time. They'll be a song that sad. But then, you know, straight off to that OB bit more lighthearted of funny or or heartbroken and those sorts of things. So yeah, it's it's as me as it can get really let me revisit the song. That is considered your breakout. Boys will be boys Ma. Me. See? Tall. That she. Nice. It explores something that sexual assault survivors have long told us that they have experienced which is being blamed for what happened to them. And I understand that you've got death threats after this. I mean death threats. I was never expecting him show. I honestly came out three days before Harvey Weinstein was cold out online. And then following that the metoo movement resurfacing after all those years, and I was never expecting the listenership and the broad audience that I got for that song. And I think it was possibly as a result of that whole conversation starting to take place. See? No, I think at the time people were very threatened. And it was the first time I think that the powers hat to show some sort of compassion, and that may be that the pendulum was possibly swinging back a little bit towards women having the freedom to speak out about these issues. It seems shocking. Right. But maybe not. I mean, I don't know what what was it like for you to experience you were talking about people sending you explicit pictures. I mean, what was that? Like was it shocking to you? Where you how did you react to that? Yeah. It was really shocking. But at the same time, I guess it's just one of those things that when I put that out. I I received extreme fade back, you know, extreme feedback on both sides. So whilst does getting sent in appropriate pictures or horrible messages from people also receiving letters from fathers who had heard that song. And we're going to use that song as a resource to teach their children, and I was. Hearing from young women out there who had used that song to kind of process things that happened to them. And I was hearing from all sorts of people positively about that song. So it was a very extreme time. You know, I think everything just heightened for me. Good and bad. So it wasn't too. Harrowing for me because I was able to look at the positives that I was getting out of putting that song out obviously hasn't stopped you because your your new album, beware of the dogs continues to share your thoughts, very directly, and especially the first track old, man. Let me play. His. I have to say when I get a new foul rec- to to listen to. I generally just listen to it at first, and I was playing it on my way to work, and I'll just howling. I think it's like the beach boys. You know, we're going to the beach. You're going to hang out the and then you're like, whoa. Wait what? So the couple of questions I have first of all is this about something or someone in particular particular experience that you have it's I think it's based on many experiences that I've had and I I definitely didn't wanna make it to specific. I created a character and an amalgamation of many people that I've come across as an artist as a female artist. And and also looking at what had just happened in my world. You know, when I always we always out the me too campaign had reemerged, and then post that I'd watched life changes as a female musician in this industry. And I guess it was also a way for me to put my middle finger up to anyone who given me giving me grief. A boys will be boys. You know? I wasn't going to let that stop me from speaking out and staying true to my to my values. Well, yes fact, you said I've worked too hard for this chance to not be biting the hand that feeds the hate. So have chat to your friends because it's our words that will keep our daughters safe. Definitely. A message there from the fact that it's so uptempo is also one of the things that struck me. That's part of the reason it packs such a wallop. Scared. I actually wrote kind of the music before the lyrics came together and often when I write something that sounds quite pretty or sounds quite and a jetty and upbeat and uplifting. A generally wanna counter that it's heavy lyrics. So I guess that's how it came together. I like creating that contrast. And I mean for me, it's about communication skills. And even just talking to you now if I was yelling at you going. This is what I think. Okay. Blah, blah, blah, you'd be too distracted. By the fact, that I was yelling at you to actually take in what I'm saying. I might be saying something really positive for because I'm yelling, it just doesn't quite get through as easy. So I guess that was my technique of communication and education may be but it's kind of celebrate Ori as well. You know, it's this kind of a way for me to to sing about something heavy, but for the music to kind of cushion that especially playing live every night, it is the bed. There of pleasurable. Sounds. That allows me to kind of see with those lyrics and feel comfortable saying them you touch on a lot of things on the album. I want I want to mention and also I think a number of the songs work on a number of levels. It could be political. But it could be it could be personal. And for example, I wanna play tricks. Like you. You said. I was thinking that this could be about a relationship because a lot of people have had this experience with other person only likes that person to the degree that they're kind of putting on a show or fitting an image. Right. There's even a word for it. Right. Arm candy. What were you thinking about when you when you wrote this? I guess I wanted to create a character again much like old man that is based on sort of many people I've come across over the years, but the really specific picture I have was when I used to play solo cover gigs used to sit in the corner of this bar re Sunday afternoon and sing covers and out. Have these men standing at the bar, and they'd have these tattoos, and it'd be yelling, and and there'd be screaming at me to play case, by coaches. Oh, which was a coach's alert fantastic stroll in rock band. But you know, that that's that's the only song they wanted me to sing. And they wouldn't be happy until I played that song. I I wanted to kind of paint that picture of that character that used to just give me grief every weekend had go back and do the same thing. Both of us. Would you know? It'd just be this groundhog day of heckling. Doc slide up. Job jackson. Congratulations on everything. What's next for you? Well out about to head across to see you. I'm coming over to do a tour around North America and then across to Europe and the UK. So I'm looking forward to it. What do you wanna go out on? Oh, I think I'd like to go out on lunch. It's my probably my favorite song on the record. Cards. See? Yes. See how they stitch? Strives? That was still Donnelly her album beware of the dogs is out now. And as she told us she's just about to head our way on tour, and we'll be looking for her. So still Donald thank you so much for talking. Thank you so much. Would it kill you to? This message comes from NPR sponsor. Comcast business. Business has always been driven by innovators. That's why Comcast business is helping you with technology that provides better experiences. Comcast business beyond fast.
203 Author Jennifer Donnelly
"This is what book hooked you I'm broke Shelly and thanks for listening this week. I talked to Jennifer Donnelly who's the author of several books such as in northern light and The waterfire Saga her newest book is out. Now. It's called poisoned. It's a retelling of the Snow White Fairy Tail dead. So we get into that we get into her writing career her process and fairy tales. So listen in So Jennifer what book hooked to you the book that hooked me good and hard when I was young maybe eight nine years of age was The Brothers Grimm their collection details. I I love stories. My mother was a wonderful Storyteller. I had a lot of books and I read a lot of the sort of cleaner gentler Kinder more sanitized version of the old Grimms Tales the Disney version Little Golden Books and I loved them but when I got a bit older I was messing around in the library one day and talking to the librarian and she did you ever, you know, telling her what I like did you ever read, you know this collection of fairy tales and it was The Brothers Grimm and I I I took it from her and took it out and I got it home and it just changed my world. I think it was because when I was at age, I was a kid of the late sixties early seventies, and I really wanted the truth all the time. I wanted to, New Jersey. What was going on, you know with people in life in the world and and parents at that time, you know, they were a little they weren't quite the parents that that we tried be today sort of explaining things and going into death off with their answers not for any nefarious reasons or anything like that, but they were busy they were tired, you know, they were impatient they were working so I kind of felt things were being withheld from me and and the grown-ups weren't giving me the answers. I want I wanted to know things like you know, why why do Christmas carols make me sad and and white a my dad was just big, you know, tough state trooper sometimes cry and you know these sorts of things and being a kid who was growing up in the late sixties early seventies. I would watch the news at night. I sort of was sitting on the floor of my coloring book my parents would watch the news and I was here all these things about, you know, Nixon Watergate. Ad'ika the Manson family and have this feeling that the world wasn't quite as I was being led to believe it was and again wasn't getting the answers. I wanted them. From my folks not from the nuns not from you know count chocula or Bert and Ernie or mr. Rogers or anybody but I got those answers when I read The Brothers Grimm to me they the brothers I didn't hold anything back. They wrote they wrote down as I'm sure you know, they were collectors of tales not they weren't offering the Tails and the tales were describing a world that was different was very hard very, you know, often violent often bloody. That's how their world, you know could often be at that time and in the eighteen hundreds and it guided a deeper truth took me and I I heard from The Brothers Grimm a truth I sense but that no adults were sort of verbalizing to me that the world could be this very dark very hard at times very cool place, you know, they acknowledge that they were right up front with it, but it didn't rattle me it didn't, you know drive me to despair upset me or made me depressed or anything like that because within this very hard World Kid Navigating it you know kids like not Kings with armies but kids like Hansel and Gretel Little Red Riding Hood You Know Jack and his handful of beans and yes, the woods were dark and the war, you know, the woods were full of ourselves and monsters and witches, but these kids were triumphant, you know with with very little tools that their ability just sort of what they had inside them is what led them through that dark woods and enabled them to find their way home and I found those Tales incredibly comforting for that reason and very very truthful. That was a long Revolution your question. It was great. And so because that was sort of like a a break the glass moment, like, you know, you would kind of had seen the world in more clear up close because of reading Did that sort of? Spur on your kind of hunger for discovery of more more Tales more what was out there whether that be in the fairy-tale Fantasy Realm or whether would that would be life out in the real world. And what was really going on? Yeah, definitely, you know again, I wanted that truth. I wanted to know, you know, when you're a little and you hear things, you know, like again like adequate water you hear it you you maybe don't understand body counts and riots and and tear gas and and the Manson family and a president who tells lies. So I was always seeking for our sort of deeper answers a deeper truth. You know, it probably that truth. Probably started Dawning on me with the Grimm's Fairy Tales and then branched out into the wider world. It's why I wrote a book like a Northern Light why I wrote a book like Revolution. I wanted to get it harder grittier sort of deeper truth. And so as you how did your relationship with books changed as you birth? Up and you kind of became into your adolescent years that were books. So important to you are where there are certain genre. That was really your favorite or did you kind of grow distance because of wage teen-age social life and what it could become I've always depended on books. I always found comfort and solace in books. They were always there for me sort of, you know stories were very enduring and unbreakable and indestructible and and I still feel that way, you know as as a little bit older than a teenager these days especially now when the world with everything that's going on and the the difficulty so many people are facing the suffering the injectors you search for Hope and you search for truth and you search for meaning and I personally always found them in fiction and and I still do it's it's it's my go-to a good meeting novel is what pulls me through always has dead. And so then at what point in your life? Did you go from this love of books and love of story to wanting to create your own stories? Oh when I was like three years old. I had this I still have her she's still alive. Thank goodness. My mom. She's German and and she was an amazing verbal Storyteller and she would so funny. She would often tell me stories of her life in Germany as a small child during World War Two she grew up in this Life in a Northern Port town and it was heavily bombed by the Allies. So, you know, we'll all my little pals were settling down tonight, you know with stories like Cinderella or you know, the Three Bears I was getting this first-hand up close and personal account of life in Hitler's Germany during the Third Reich and she might tell me what it felt like to be eight or nine years old and running, you know for her life under the sound of wage of airplanes and and Sirens going off into a bomb shelter only to come out a few hours later and find you know that her house and everything in it had burned to the ground she might tell me about Her friend. I think his name was Herbert. He was like this the neighborhood snot-nosed who had joined the Hitler Youth and whenever he got into trouble he would run and put on his uniform because when he was in it, he was the property of the state wage and no one not even his parents could touch him and she told me a very harrowing story about a friend named Harold who was a small boy who had cerebral palsy and they would put him in a wheelbarrow and kind of push him around to where they were playing and she told me what it was like to see his mother come running in a panic and scooped him up and you know Rush him into the house and hide him in a closet because the Nazi Health Inspectors were coming to town and she knew her son could be taken away and you know some some people might feel that you know, these stores were too much and and and too strong and too harrowing for a kid, but I didn't feel that way. I was really interested. I was you know, I was just in my bed and I would say, you know, what did you do next mom and what happened and how do you feel and I think what was happening is that my mother was making a historian and a Storyteller out of me and showing me very much. History isn't things that happen to generals and kings and it's not about treaties and and it's about us it's about the everyday people and how these huge World forces work on us and shape us home. Sometimes save us sometimes Dumas. I think she was making intentionally or not a historian and a writer out of me at the same time. So then when did it The idea come to you that you wanted to be a published author and that was kind of a dream you chased. That was probably when I was older. I mean in my mind, I was an author, you know, as soon as I could write as soon as I could form sentences and and and you know, make them into paragraphs and make them into a little story. I was a writer it's it's it was as natural to me as breathing the expectation of words and stories was always there from from you know, being a tiny child and hearing my mother's voice telling me these stories. I loved it and I wanted to do it and it just felt very natural to me and I think you know as I get older I wanted to become a published author. I wanted to make my living I wanted to you know, spend every day writing and telling stories that was a little harder than just writing out, you know, your third and fourth grade stories, but I'm super fortunate that I managed to achieve that dream. Hm. Hm and your newest book is poisoned. So we'll talk about that. So First it's and obviously ties into what we were talking about earlier, but tell us first what this books about this book is about it's a retelling of Snow White and I I have to proceed carefully because I am is Rattle and and talked too much and spoil things and give things away. It's it's a telling of Snow White and in my version the Huntsman does exactly as he's told and Snow White has to go on a quest to find back this heart that he's taken from her to regain it and the idea of this story much like the idea for step sister came to me because of unanswered questions. I found when I was a kid with stepsister, it was very much wondering about those two ugly stepsisters. I love Cinderella and I felt so sorry for her when I was little five six years old hearing the story being off to me. I couldn't really, you know relate to her or identify with her because she was only so good and so kind and you know, I wasn't and I sort of really saw myself more in those ugly girls. Sisters who were sleeping in and didn't do their chores when they were supposed to and you know, they had big feet just like me and they had crazy here just like me and I saw myself in them and I wanted to know what happened to them. You know, what had made those girls so mean as we know now, you know mean girls are made not born, you know, if you scratch the surface of any villain you usually find a lot of damage. So I had that question, you know, and then for poisoned it was very much the scariest thing to me and that story wasn't the evil queen or the Huntsman and his order to cut out Snow White's heart it was that voice in the mirror that is that creepy, you know disembodied voice of authority and who was it? Where was it coming from? Why did the queen listen to it? And why did she allow it to have so much power over her she she believed it and she did exactly what it told her to do. And so that's scared me and I wanted to know, you know my whole life who was who was in that mirror who's talking so I wrote a storm. Poison to find out that answer and so you you mentioned step sister, which was the book before this one, which is also a retailing as you mentioned when you are kind of flushing out an idea like this where it is off their Source material. There's a there's a well-known Story how when do you know that you have enough to make it fresh and new enough that you want to go on that journey to write it. That's a really good question and a hard one to answer. I it's it's kind of oh, it's a process of getting the idea and it comes in kind of fuzzy or crackly and then It comes in clear. You start seeing the characters you start they start really drawing breath and color coming into their faces and living and breathing and talking to you and you realize that this person is sort of the embodiment of the question you had, you know, what made the ugly stepsisters mean and and who is that voice in the mirror and you get this feeling that the game's afoot and together you and this character are off and you're going to solve this and you have this amazing partner on this, you know, Incredible Journey to tell the story that's kind of a waffle answer to I can't pin it down more than that. It's just I don't know. It's just this this feeling you get of excitement and and this is going to work. This is going to live this is going to breathe we're going to we're going to do the story together this main character in me. Sure. And now I think by my account I think poisoned is your 15th, maybe sixteenth book or maybe maybe fourteen fourteen. Do you I'm thinking of it. I think under my question like this like, When we were growing up we go through phases and even as adults we go through phases. Do you feel like as an author you've gone through phases whether that's subject matter whether that's off your approach towards writing or when you kind of look back at your career. You kind of see kind of phases that you've gone in. Actually, I don't think I I have seen faces. I mean, I certainly have you know, kind of gone from genres to other genres back to the original genres out again sort of History to Fantasy. I'd say though with those sort of variations in genre and maybe subject matter. The one constant has been always telling the story of a young woman who Feels called to do something wants to do something wants to proceed in her life in a certain way and is is you know, trying to people around her are trying to dissuade her for that and she wants to be on this path and people are telling her. No, it's not for you home and she has to sort of be very still and you know, shut out those outside voices and listen to the voice inside and let it guide her to the Past she wants and that's usually the subject of the story and it's very much the message that I want to get to my young readers, you know, when you're a teenager everybody is telling you who to be in want to be in what to do and what to like and who you are and you need to shut that out and you need to be very still and very quiet and listen to the voice inside and let that voice guide you so I think that has been very much a constant throughout my work. And after after so many books do you feel has a I'll ask it this way. Has it gotten easier or oh, okay. I have a lot of books a lot of authors, you know every book just when you think you have it figured out you think you have a patented process. The next book comes along and totally throws it off. So you've I assume definitely found that by your reaction. It's super hard for me writing is so hard for me. It's oh my gosh, it's it's it never gets any easier. I'm still terrified of the blank page at this point. I have you know, the empirical evidence on the shelf that yes, I have done this. I've been through this I can do this. It doesn't matter half way through three quarters of the way through you know, I just get this this is panic sets in and there's no story here. And and now I've really lost it. I can't write anymore. Whoever told me I could be a writer and it's it's you know, it's a it's a dreadful burden. I think it's just a burden of every artist to Bear you you lose sight of yourself. You lose sight of your ability Those computer. Faith in yourself at some point in that process and it's it's harrowing and you just have to Buckle in and and try to get through it. Hm and you've been long as you've been writing and as you've been publishing Stories the market of why hey has obviously exploded like I remember I took a course that was called young adult literature wage and the books were the giver holes and I think The True Confessions of Charlotte Doyle so but three books that and the fourth one. So three books that are now considered squarely like middle grade books, obviously and that was and then since then obviously middle Rya has become so much. So you've sort of been working in and seeing that so what happened like that in that category that you work in has just branched off and just exploded really from when you started out its glorious. It's absolutely wonderful because I remember being dead A teenager too and not having a whole lot, you know in the in the y a cannon and now I just it's like this, you know things have gone just Technicolor and and everybody I hope can see themselves represented in a story and a book everybody can find themselves or their experience, you know within the pages of a book which is just such a gift it is so wonderful because imagine being a child who never did see, you know, their story his story her story represented in pages and how defeating and depressing and and exclusionary that must be in heartbreak. So I feel just you know, I feel happy. I feel gratified. I just feel very fortunate to be alive to be working at this time with this is huge burgeoning this Renaissance of why literature home and as a writer that have written series and written Standalone. Is there one you sort of prefer as it I would I would imagine be stand alone just because Thursday, Just moving Parts obviously, but is there some comfort in revisiting the same characters and settings from book to book? It's really about the size of the story like how much room do you need to tell that story. And how many characters and you know, you need to focus the camera on one and then the other and then the whole group so with something like waterfire Saga I needed to spread that out. I think that was originally supposed to be a Trilogy and turned into a quartet and down like a northern light to me. That's exactly the size that you know, that story should be it went on for exactly how long I needed to tell that his story with exploring different genres between the age where they're still used to have like a wish list as an author of stories or genres. You still hope to kind of play in and explore that that you just can't maybe the idea is not there. I just don't have it fully formed. Is there an area that you're still kind of looking for a way in? Yeah, all of them. I have ideas backed up, you know, I can only work so fast. So they're sort of jostling. They're like these, you know puppies are off. Children and they're unruly and they want attention and they want to go first and yeah, my biggest fear is that you know, my life will end and I won't have gotten under paper all the ideas that I still have in my head. Hm. And having in the double digits now of books. Do you and as you are interacting with readers who you know, you're interacting with readers that may know you for a different book and is it is it sometimes hard to kind of like have to switch mindsets from you know talking about this book to a question about another book that was a little while ago and different characters and things like that. Like do you ever confuse your own books at this point? So sometimes I forget things sometimes read. It'll say remember when that happened, you know in chapter fifteen and books random like yeah, of course I do. So yes, I am a little forgetful so that can happen at times for sure at this point. Do you have well, the challenges are always still there and they're always changing. Do you have a process or a discipline for yourself as a writer processor disciplined? It's basically get up, you know and get to work as early as you can and stay at it for as long as you can particularly when that deadline is crushing. And so, you know, generally a hot drink and sit down at my desk and and just go take a break for lunch and keep going again when deadlines are coming up well into the night, you took the midnight oil really that's the writing process once I think I know what I'm doing and and the sort of idea inspiration process is just this Is wonderful phase of really almost like falling in love, you know when I've got this idea and I'm so excited and I'm so happy and it's all going to go great, you know, and then reality sets in it's like, how do I get this on paper? And I thought oh my gosh, look at this outline. It's not working and Yeah, it's it's just you know, this this process of being so excited thinking everything is so tremendous sort of falling off that ledge picking yourself back up again. I'm I'm sure it's something every writer goes through and so, how then does your reading life interact with your writing life. Do you try to read outside of whatever genre you're reading in home or does it really not matter or do you you know find that it's even hard to read at all during certain periods of the process how to how does your reading life interact wage? I wish there were some logic or something, you know to hit something that would make sense. It's just what do I hear about what excites me? You know, what do I crack open? And that voice on the on the first page and the first line is just so compelling that I can't look away. I can't put it down. I must have the story and I must read it. It's just this sort of passion for the story and this connection. There's there's no logic, you know. I read whatever whatever grabs me at whatever time and grabs me. I don't sort of make limits or nothing's off-limits to me as I'm doing my own work after working hard all day and a book. It's just so lovely to Thursday Boyd Along by someone else's effort and someone else's art and and and her beauty on the page very restorative. Is there a genre or a Trope are just some plot device that you would at least give the book a chance. If you know, it incorporates that that element something you have a soft spot for I think a soft spot off probably still historical very much. It's where I started out as a young adult author and if someone can take me you know with no with let's see how I want to phrase if if an author if it's if an historical author can take me back into her time. So they don't even know I'm being taken. I'm just suddenly there on unselfconscious of having Moved from you know, twenty twenty back into fourteen twelve or fifteen sixty. I'm gone. I'm hooked. I'm you know, I'm just putting in that person's hands and and took a few people can do that and is there and maybe it's in the historical fiction space or maybe it's outside. Is there like an author or authors that you either they have a back list of books that you just continually hold in high regard or they're still releasing and and you're just always kind of looking for that next book or just kind of enthralled by that person's writing. One of them is definitely Hilary mantel. I just finished her the mirror and the light which is the third and her Trilogy about Thomas Cromwell who was Henry the eighth's fixer and she is just a sorceress her her way with language her ability to delve so deeply into this man Thomas Cromwell to get us to look at a man who was really vilified for centuries, and it was actually dead. You know, maybe the the architect of of sort of the modern historical state is incredible to me. She's just an alchemist. She's a wizard with words. So she's one of the authors that I admire would read anything. She's she will write or has ever written great. Well wind things down though. Ask you a few questions as we do the first one. What is your favorite movie? That's based on a book on o hands down Silence of the Lambs at how old is it now thirty years. If it's not 30 years it's close to it. Cuz I'm trying to think is it was it I want to put it at somewhere between 88 and 92. So that sounds right to me and it's still just scares the pants off me every single time. I watch it. It's brilliant. I love that main character so much one of my favorite and Clarice Starling one of my favorite main characters of all times. It's just so beautifully wrought just so she's flawed but she's trying so hard and she's terrified but she's so brave and she just wants to fight the good fight. She's amazing. Awesome. Next question then is there a book or series you're willing to admit you've either never read or never finished. Yep, and that would be Moby Dick and not do it cannot do it never ended either never ended either know it's right the class notes with notes and ice when I used to teach high school. There were we would only make the kids read like a chapter of it. And so that's the only bit I've ever read is just what was in that literature Club. Like textbooks basically do it life is short know and finally, what is the last great book that you've read? Oh, I would have to go back to Hilary mantel. I mean I just finished it and it was amazing and I've already dead, you know, just wax so lyrical about her. But again, she's a an author who just seamlessly brings you back into the time. She's writing about and makes Cromwell so much a man of his time sites and I you know, so squarely within Henry's court but makes but but draws is incredible parallel to sort of modern people and how they operate to and you just you just hear those Whispers coming down at you from the century. It's incredible. It's time machine, right? Well Jennifer poisoned comes out on October 20th. Congratulations on this book and we can't wait to see what else you have for us. Thank you so much Brock. And that is a wrap on another episode. I want to thank Jennifer Donnelly for joining me again. Her newest book poisoned is out. Now. You can also check out all of our other books. You can find a link to a lot of those in the book shop.org Link in the show notes. Hope you'll check those out. Hope you also check out some of our other great episodes with wife and middle-grade authors. I'm from Chile and until next time keep reading.
BONUS / Running Out of Time / Michael Donnelly
"I'm Dr Selene bounder and this is at polemic in this episode. I speak with Michael Donnelly. Whose background is an economic research financial policy and data science. He's worked in the US. Federal Government in various research positions for six years in the private sector for almost seven years last. Wednesday Michael published an analysis to provide a broad sense of the scale of the crisis. The country is facing. He found that reported cases of Kovic. Nineteen in the United States. Dramatically understate the current number of infected Americans the same week Michael published and other analysis. Looking at the New York City Metro area has results were startling. The outlook for New York City and Kovic. Nineteen is bleak. The policy response has been far too slow and too weak to meet the needs of the moment. His analyses came just days before an appeal college. Report predicting high fatalities in the US. If the country doesn't take extreme measures the place where I start with all these conversations that I'm not an epidemiologist and I'm not a public health researcher My background more in economic research and financial policy and data science so prior to my current job as a data scientist from the tech sector I worked in the federal government for about six years and in the private sector for about three years in financial. Policy research specialties. In all of this quantitative communication and data science and forecasting. How did you decide that you wanted to delve into the semi? This is not your regular job right. No it really isn't it was really. It was a fascination I think is to be totally honest. It's kind of topic that I've always been interested in. I did some training and health economics and Grad school and I started digging into this really in January and was pretty convinced by February. That this was you know like pretty major even for the US. found over those weeks that I was getting pretty exhausted trying to convince friends that this was not the seasonal flu And so because of my background my skill set I turn towards Quantitative Analysis and Empirical Research to answer these questions. I and that's you know that's really where I started going To begin so really in March after becoming pretty tired of trying to convince friends. I decided it'd be a lot easier to compile all of my thoughts in written form and so also providing that really as a resource for people to feel empowered to explore the existing scientific research on the topic Rather than just believing some friend of theirs who thinks he's got a good opinion So I started writing up About a week and a half ago All of my notes and it quickly turned into a twenty page medium post with Research and my own quantitative analysis and modeling and before I put it out there because They had some disturbing conclusions to it. I ran this by a bunch of friends. I think probably about six to eight and my friends who I had reviewed. Phd's JD's or some sort of doctorate in a variety of field between Public Health Economics and political science and law so it was really making an effort not to put out that information but my main goal was to put on information at a level that you didn't have to have a degree in science or in statistics. Understand so that was my goal my first medium article it was. It was really kind of the national overview. Shortly after that. I think I released it a week ago. Today I started thinking through the consequences. My own life and part of that meant thinking about My exports we which was about to restart it season here and so I ran the realize this the the executive board meeting with starting about a half an hour and so I ran down to the to the board meeting to ask them to cancel the upcoming season. And as I was waiting for my turn to speak I Replicated National Analysis For The New York City region and Got Pretty disturbing results about what that meant for. New York's healthcare system and its capacity to absorb You know the forecasted to during critical cases into hospital that was the realization that I needed to do more formal analysis for New York and by the next day around lunch I had been the analysis and was ready to host on twitter after you know getting some other friends to to review that specific analysis as well. That's when I started reaching out to all the government officials that I could possibly reach out to because the conclusions were so jarring. It really told me that'd be had very little time left to take much much stronger. Governmental action to increase social distancing before we had essentially locked him too many infections. That would overwhelm your hospital system. Some follow up questions about that so having looked at sort of the national scenario as well as the New York City scenario how divergent are different. Are Those will. I'll start off by saying that. There are a lot of models out there that do a really good job dealing with Different geographies and densities and the way that people move around in different ways they some different cities those models also unfortunately very complex and difficult to understand models that I used. Are you know essentially simple? Almost one hundred year old models called. Si our models and they just work at the top line summed up the whole country or summed up the whole city because they have the same structural form if you are saying that the virus progresses in the same way. They kind of look very similar in terms of how quickly they progress under these simple models. So that's Kinda short. Answer the the wrinkle in that is that it matters a great deal about where you estimate your current position to be Versus the relative total susceptible population so in the New York City region. It really seems that I haven't done it for more analysis of all the cities in the US it seems like it's the most the highest priority city be addressing the problem right now You could also think maybe Seattle would be close on heels to some people that would be surprising because Seattle was hit. I why would that be a triumph point out throughout this conversation where I've done what I think is firsthand quantitative analysis? And where I I feel like a greater uncertainty in this place I haven't done as much. Firsthand quantitative comparisons but I think It's important to point out that it seems that most of Seattle's cases detected cases upfront. Were in a nursing home. Among much more susceptible population are much more vulnerable population. My older people whereas in New York you had its first cases detected on fifty. Somethings forty somethings who are very mobile throughout the city and didn't have a clear lineage to trace back how they had coming back in the first place and so since it could really have been you know. New York City anywhere along the Metro North quarter or in the subways of Manhattan. It stands to reason that there were substantial numbers of undetected cases that were circulating around America's most density and so for that reason. I think it's reasonable to assume that the overall reproductive rates have been detected in a variety of studies based either on the experience of China or the experience on Diamond Princess cruise which I said he's leverage heavily my papers because they really could. Do you know full population. Study In in newspapers I think they give you a really good picture of what it's at in New York without intervention. How are you able to guesstimate estimate you know how far back? Corona virus may have been introduced into New York City when when the first cases may have started circulating here. Couldn't do that analysis But the last time I updated the analysis was the end of March thirteenth which was last Friday. As at that time we had about four hundred cases in the New York City region that were reported and we were estimating anywhere from thirteen hundred to twenty three hundred cases overall the regional population that most of which hadn't been detected. That's just that it had been in New York City for for many weeks. But any greater specificity is not it? Couldn't just be guessing. So maybe if you can just talk us through first of all you know what you found you. Sort of gave us A very a broad overview of what that was but maybe a little bit more specifically sure the numbers that I found a New York City which are now five days old about a third of the analysis is just focused on trying to understand the actual current number in the population of infected and potentially infectious cases. As I mentioned before we had reported at the time Four hundred cases. And then there's a real question of okay. How do you kind of Ballpark? The right number of cases in the population you know the place to start is to just acknowledge that directionally. The reported number of cases is an underestimate assuming also a fairly low false positive rate in the testing results over that that may be somewhat of a week assumption given some reporting that. I've seen on that but regardless even with a relatively high false positive rate and testing. It's almost certainly an underestimate. Because of the limited number of tests out there and the strong restrictions that even still hold to this day about who can be tested but it was even stronger restrictions on who could be tested at the time last Friday so the approach for coming up with the estimate which I detail a lot more in my first paper was to attempt to estimate four different parameters. And those tremors were the ace Amana great mild case rate and then to detection rates. So I'll start first on. WanNa look at the dramatic and the mild case rate mild. Innocent medications are just a lot harder to catch because they present as you know as a as a cold and people don't get tested for colds regularly And so we kind of need to know. First how many people who get cove in nineteen are going to experience these mildmay symptomatic version of it so we went to a few different papers. There's a couple of papers on the clinical characteristics on the virus coming out of China one in the Lancet that used them one in the New England Journal of Medicine and they both play the mild rate at around eighty percent. I think one had eighty one percent and both papers Had about a one percent asymmetric rate if I'm remembering correctly whereas there were two papers coming out of the Diamond Princess cruise which was unfortunately for the passengers. Pretty good natural experiment or research purposes. Because you can test everyone On the cruise they came up with a couple of different estimates for rate Pay Some medications. One pick replace that at the lower end around seventeen percent and another paper place. The higher end around thirty five percent. So why does that matter matters if we believe those papers that the easiest way to reconcile them is to say that the clinical papers coming out of China just weren't getting into their sample the dramatic cases because those labs confirmed cases and make sense that they would be missing quite a few cases based on what I know that the Chinese testing protocol so how to adjust them this mild case rate. It's actually not that hard. You just assume that if the overall population actually has They thirty five percent Symptomatic cases than other remaining sixty five percent. Eighty percent are mild. Then you can just add up. Those percentages and you can get the overall mild as some domestic rate since both mild and Cincinnati. -CATIONS tend to be harder to detect. We've been separate out the detection rates for these non severe cases and for severe in critical cases by the way the calculation of the severe critical case rate is much easier. Once you've figured out the mild and Eysenck matic rate you can just subtract that from one and you. The remainder is going to be severe and critical cases which ends up being somewhere just under ten percent depending on depending on which estimates us the next step ones. We've kind of got. That is to just understand how quickly people transition from one ovulation to the other. There's also been a lot of discussion as you know about School closures mass gatherings was there to slightly different questions based on your modeling. And you're looking at the evidence and I think you've been involved in the discussions at least in New York City around school. Closures what do you think the evidence shows and what's been your involvement in those discussions. It does seem to show in various studies that I've been reading that you know. Approximately a third Transmissions happen At schools and at workplaces so closing down schools. Well trigger and don't seem to have as many severe side effects do seem to be a vector and one interesting analysis that I saw on the out of South Korea where they've done really extensive testing their population and a lot of people pointed to that. Extensive testing is being one of the reasons they've been able to get the the spread of the virus under control their thought. The signing was that there is a quote unquote over indexing of cases among twenty to twenty nine year olds and so even though they don't tend to show as many symptoms many severe symptoms. It seems that because it's a more social group In the age pool that they're one of the biggest factors that the spreading and so while that's not the age group for public schools. It is part of the age group for universities. I think between the Imperial College study that found a significant part of transmission happening in schools and finding out of South Korea that a significant part of transmissions are coming from Twenty somethings it does make sense that we're gonNA continue doing Restrictions on movements and and restrictions on schools universities. How different are your methodologies? I mean it sounds like some of it may be that you're just trying to approach it as simply as possible Especially for lay people to be able to understand what you're doing. But how different are your methodologies from say Ferguson Neil Ferguson or mark lips itch the Ferguson paper this is the Imperial College paper uses what I believe is an agent based model and this effectively mean that they're attempting to model the individuals in society and how they move about and how much they contact each other This is a pretty new approach to modeling. At least in my background and Financial Stability Research and and it can yield some interesting results. That are different than what Topline statistical analyses yield but on average. It turns out that the very similar results and so that I can point to. Is the conclusions that both Neil Ferguson. I reach. And what parameters us to reach them. The Neil Ferguson paper uses an are not of two point four which is almost the same as my two point three. They use essentially a serial interval. So this is how frequently that compounds of just over five days which is slightly more than my four point seven they find for the US that without intervention about eighty percent of the US population become infected. I find higher than that but It would make sense if there's slightly different results particularly on that factor and finally the total number of deaths which is super important metric. We all agree they find About two point two million deaths peaking sometime this summer Which is slightly later than my timing estimates for that but it's also just under twice as highs my estimates for that from forecasting in statistics standpoint. All of these results are what we've Kinda referred to as within an order of magnitude so while they approach the modeling from a pretty different mathematical standpoint. What's interesting is that the results come out very similarly and when you're using models to forecast it's actually a good thing to have people pursuing a lot of different model forms because if they're all coming out with roughly similar conclusions And they're not collaborating then you can have a much higher degree of confidence in the findings so in other words you're approaching the problem in different ways but you're all sort of your results are all pointing in the same direction. Yeah that's exactly right and part of the reason. I chose the simpler model. Aside from the fact that I'm not epidemiologist was also I think it's important for people to feel like they have some agency over understanding why political leaders are taking such strong actions when it seems like the death rate or the critical case rate is still pretty long? The country and so. I hope that this math this explanation damalf gives people a better sense of why it's important to act now. You know another thing that's been up for. Debate is duration of the social distancing measures when we can lift them. What is your model show? And how does that align with the Ferguson model? I haven't done what. The Ferguson model did mine. Alice's went up through the first part of the Ferguson Model And it aligns very well with their hypothetical no government intervention and no individual response to the to the virus. Our results are within essentially or magnitude at each other and had very similar peaks in terms of the interventions. I think that there's limited information right now to estimate exactly how big an effect each of these interventions have on the virus. And so the Ferguson. Approach using agent based model is some of the best ways that we can deal with that right now. I think that there's going to be more evidence coming out of the change in the reproductive rate in each of the countries that we've seen China South Korea Japan France Spain Italy to see how much we can attribute chain reproductive rates of these policy implementation. There's just very limited data on that right now so I Attempted that work yet. One of the things that were beginning to discuss among some other. Us based data scientists is trying to come up with a way of tracking at least directionally in real time changes in the reproductive factor in different regions of the United States. But we're also going to have to estimate changes to detection rates and that's all related to the number of tests as a proportion of the number of infections so in order to to do that we're going to have to continue to forecast so there's a lot of unknowns right now and it's a big mathematical problem essentially and a data problem that a lot of people have just begun to work on so. I'm hoping to have a better answer for that coming weeks. But right now. I think the Ferguson papers one of the Best I've seen on it. They seem to suggest that the first period of lockdowns is going to be the longest because we need to get the the disease spread under control before we can think about lifting the lockdowns to that. We don't overwhelm hospital immediately. After it left them and I think they played some around two months to the initial period. Then you lift the measures but then you have these subsequent waves of disease. So how do you decide when to reimpose measures and can you do so in a more local fashion as opposed to doing so across the country? I think there's a couple of points there. One key point to get. I understand the intuition behind. The subsequent point is that I see you. Cases or severe hospitalized cases occur virus are lagging indicator. So if you stop people from catching the virus by imposing lockdown when you're at a hundred percent of your hospital capacity well you've got all the transmission that have been happening a week before then but haven't been showing symptoms and so you're going to have all of those cases that haven't should of the hospital yet arriving at your hospital after your hostels already full over the next week. So what the paper does it says. We're going to need to estimate capacity triggers for this and. I think that there's a real data problem here. So let's say the capacity trigger is like a third of the of the available capacity in the hospital and that seems kind of reasonable to me but in order for that trigger to be placed. We're going to need to know what the capacity of the hospitals are in the region and what be number of hospitalized cases are on the region and as far as I can tell you I've been speaking to epidemiologists and data scientists Across the country. There doesn't seem to be a good centralized source for that information and so it's GonNa be a lot harder for even sophisticated state and local governments to do that and I think as unsexy problem as it is to say. We need to invest in data. Right now I think that's gotta be a high priority. How well do both models predict how things have played out in Italy and how things have already started to progress here in the US? You haven't seen many back tested the Italy case I can only speak to my own on that one and when I ran it on about two week old data coming out of Italy my model was actually somewhat under predicting the two week out number in Italy. Now that is essentially within what WE EXPECT TO BE ERA FOR MODEL. And so it's suggested that these models and dust the parameters that we use the model that the are not that reproductive rate how frequently that compounds those sorts of things it really suggests that these models are right and left. Broadly unchecked like they were in Italy. The future extrapolations even out a month or two are right and I think that's really why people might governments are beginning to take this seriously right now because People have really convinced national leaders. That if they don't do something now he's really horrific scenarios could play out. How far out can you accurately forecast? And how you know how. How much can we trust these predictions? Some people are saying three months five months of these kinds of interventions you know. How long are we looking at this? You know we're going to have to wait eighteen months for a vaccine you know. What can you say about the You know how far out you can really project with almost any forecast. The underlying factor is that the further out. You try and forecast the less accurate. You're going to be so a year from now is always going to be harder than a month from now and a month from now that we're going to be harder than a week from now in case in particular The biggest source of uncertainty. At least from my perspective is the policy response the models that I've done in the model the compared my work to the Imperial College model done by Ill Ferguson and and his team. They've been criticized in a in what I think is a productive way for one instance. They haven't considered the case. Tracing that could happen alongside some of these other policy implications and that in fact could reduce future infection rates similarly in in their paper. They seem just doing essentially on and off and his lockdown our suppression tactics In order to deal with both the at the economic and the health policy consequences of these policies of keeping people indoors and and social distancing and that would essentially flattened occur by having curb kind of go into waves but those waves over time may not be evenly spaced and those waves may not even space for a variety of reasons. One is increasing technology increasing tests loads but also increasing Acquired immunity because more people have been exposed so those sort of dynamics are very challenging to forecast and I think what a lot of people who are involved in trying to forecast this right now are doing is. They're trying to do two steps. Forward one step back. And I think we're just GONNA keep leveling up the quality of these forecasts overtime as we decide which forecasting approach Is yielding results. Do you sink New York City has acted quickly enough and for that matter the US The short answer is no. I think we knew enough last week to have taken the action that the mayor took on Sunday. Which is the close restaurants bars public venues movie theaters and schools now school? That doesn't matter much over the weekend but bars clubs I think reduced to quote unquote fifty percent capacity. I believe by the governor but I don't believe that most of those venues were observing got order at some point I think Some clever researchers are going to figure out Just how many illnesses are to blame for that. Glow Movement on. I know more about the New York situation than the than the national one but I think New York has some of the best Health surveillance systems in the country. And I think that's probably why we know more about New York. We also probably have more because it's a more density but I could see a similar pattern playing out across the country and it certainly hasn't helped anything when you have national leaders telling people that it's oaks and it's not even as bad as ever seasonal flu people will take action to protect themselves. But they won't do it if they don't think it's real even even just those words Have been a detriment to the spread of the virus hundred and this was the things are going off. People is yeah I mean I can't agree with you more. How soon do you think we might see hospitals in New York overwhelmed by this question? It's hard to know how much the decision to close bars and restaurants and other public venues over the last couple of days and slow down the virus. I the model that I published on March fourteenth using data through march thirteen suggested that we were going to hit enough infection by March. Twenty third or twenty fifth that by the beginning of April. We would be at hospital capacity recent analysis that. I've done using data from yesterday and today suggests that I was under counting the starting place in the New York City region The trend was accurate. But it's generally bad news. I'm very nervous for the hospitals in New York City. I think the news that the Defense Department sent hospital ship to New York City which is frankly unimaginable. A month ago is actually very good news and will hopefully with this surge capacity but from last year the outer boroughs of New York Have only seen a fifty percent reduction in subway. Travel when you look at the turnstile bank MTA. I don't think fifty percent reduction is enough. If we were already out capacity in a number actions we have today which we may be at so we may be adding beyond capacity every day. That goes by that. New York doesn't adopt stronger lockdown procedures. Michael before we close. Is there anything else you wanted to make sure to get across or wanted to add? I'm impressed by people's desire to get involved and from wide variety walks of life. You know I think. There's a lot of volunteer work. That's coming out. I think we're resilient I've seen people who work in gyms where personal trainers we've lost her income source for a long time immediately hop online and find ways of making income for themselves by doing video fitness classes. I think we're just GONNA have to be creative going forward to get through this and honestly I think there's some opportunities for really good things to come out of this going to be painful and meet in the meantime but I'm not fully pessimistic about the next few months epidemic is brought to you by human productions. Today's episode was produced by Jordan Gospel. Ray and me are music by the DOTS sessions. If you enjoy the show please tell a friend about it today. And if you haven't already done so leave us a review on apple podcasts. It helps more people find out about the show. You can learn more about this. Podcast how to engage with us on social media and how to support the podcast at epidemic dot. Fm that's epidemic dot f. m. just human productions is a five zero one. C Three nonprofit organization so your donations to support our podcasts are tax deductible good epidemic DOT FM to make a donation. Starting next week we'll be releasing epidemic twice a week on Tuesdays and Fridays producing a podcast costs money. And we've got a pair sound engineers so please make donation. Help US keep this going. Also check out our sister. Podcast American diagnosis. You can find it wherever you listen to podcasts or American diagnosis dot F. M. on American diagnosis. We cover some of the biggest public health challenges affecting the nation today in season one we covered youth and mental health in season to the OPIOID overdose crisis and in season three gun violence in America. I'm Dr Selene grounder. This is epidemic.
Clinton Donnelly: Bitcoin & Crypto Taxes What Every US Taxpayer Needs to Know (sponsored)
"Hi welcome to the first in an inaugural edition of epicenter aftershock. My name is Sydney. These aftershock podcasts are wholly sponsored and that means that everyone you hear on these editions of the show paid to be here. But that's okay because we have some amazing sponsors. If you're looking for the regular weekly edition of epicenter just look for the numbered episodes in your podcast. Feed to their gas is Clinton Donnelly. He is a crypto tax expert. He's helped hundreds of. Us Tax payers both domestic annex. Patriot filed or crypto tax returns. He's written five books on Crypto tax. And he's the founder of Crypto tax on. This guy has seen it all and there's no tax return too complicated if you'RE A. Us taxpayer and you hold crypto. This is a really important episode that you WanNa hear. Here's what you'll learn. What are your tax obligations as cryptocurrency holder? What you need to report and how you can prepare a bulletproof tax return how to put yourself in the shoes of an irs tax auditor. And what to do if you get one of those scary audit letters which I certainly wouldn't want to get. What are the biggest mistakes people make? When filing their crypto tax return and the risks they face and what to do. If you're crypto transaction history is totally cluttered and Messy. And what proactive steps. You can take to help improve the situation. Finally you'll learn about crypto tax audit. It's a yearly subscription service. Which is your Kevlar vest? In case you get audited by the IRS it ensures you get competent representation and advice from experts so that only pay the taxes that you legally owe. And I think you'll be pleasantly surprised to learn. Just how little it costs to get an irs audit insurance policy from crypto tax experts. Thank you to Crypto Tax Audit for sponsoring this episode of epicenter aftershock. And thanks to Clinton for offering this great advice to all of our listeners. Who might be concerned and looking at our stats? I happen to know there are many of you. So with that here is Clinton Donnelly of Crypto tax audit. I'm here with Clinton Donnelly. He is a crypto tax expert. He has prepared crypto tax returns for hundreds of people and helped hundreds of people understand and I sect and clarify the situation which is that everybody has to face anybody who has has to file their tax returns. He's also the author of many books on the subject and like thank him for being our guest today. Pleasure to be here so tell us a bit about your background and how you became interested in. Crypto. My background is. I haven't advanced law. Degree in the international financial regulation including taxation and I'm enrolled agent which is the highest level of certification at the IRS grants authorized to represent taxpayers worldwide. Which is what I do. I have clients and forty eight different countries. I got involved with crypto tax reporting at the beginning of two thousand eighteen because everybody who had made a fortune in two thousand seventeen started to have serious tax questions so I became a legal tax advisor to crypto tax. Prep firm but quickly realized that it was a far more complicated and continue to build my own practice at this point. I've written five books on Crypto tax preparation. I've done I've helped nine hundred tax. Amnesty returns and I have one hundred percent success rate on that and I have literally hundreds of clients. You know my biggest clients doing hundreds two hundred thousand transactions a year but people have all sorts of complex situations. Nothing's too complex for us in the CRYPTO tax base. And I got a whole. It's not just me. I got a whole team behind me. That helps me do this very effectively. What's Tax Amnesty Return? There are times like certain times. When you don't file a form that you need to then you're subject to penalties. There are two types. One is someone who just completely a crypto attacks. People stopped filing tax returns. They thought the taxes were illegal and they stopped filing and then a couple years. Go by. And you don't know how to get back into current you've had a change of heart or maybe you're more concerned you don't know how to get back. We'll taxamnesty allows us to come forward voluntarily disclosed this information to the IRS and ask for forgiveness penalties the other one is the anti money laundering forums. That crypto a traitor owners. Have to file if you don't file these forms on time. It's a ten thousand dollar penalty. It's the it's not a tax penalty so this is what Congress wanted to do to force people to remember to file these forums. So when people come to me and they haven't been filing under two of them that's twenty thousand a year you're looking at maybe three years worth sixty thousand. So we do a tax amnesty. Return which means. We're actually writing a legal affidavit that you sign under penalty of perjury and you basically say. I'm sorry I'm sorry I didn't know and we attach that to the return and we get people taxamnesty so we have a fantastic six. We have a successful method for doing that. We have a perfect track record. That's that's Seems very daunting to someone. I think to ask the. Irs For forgiveness. There's something very symbolic there. I think it's a good question. I mean there's lots of stuff in the code that Congress put there to protect taxpayers. Might be reasonable. Cause that that if you did an auditors auditing you that you have a chance to appeal to his manager or go get to go to the Appeals Board inside the IRS or get a third party inside the irs to intervene when you're doing an audit which is the things that we do all the time for our traders who are who may get audited or non traders getting audited as well. You're obviously very knowledgeable about this. But tells them about your credentials and the qualifications that allow you to advise and represent clients and taxpayers well as enrolled agent? I'm I've met the certifications. The IRS has to represent people. And because I have a law degree I actually interact with the tax code in the tax regulations. Do my own original thought doing research the tax laws and the cases. We ATTACK PROBLEMS. Because what happened with crypto taxes is. There were a lot of new terms. We didn't know how to Pigeonhole Crypto into the tax code or how the tax code applied to Cryptos and a lot of accountants who are skilled in the manipulation of numbers but not skilled in the reading of the Tax Law You know they. They froze And as a result it because I read the Law Myself. Interact with the law and read the commentaries able to frame. We have actually a nine page opinion letter on the topic of like kind exchange. And why you know we. We've gone through the fourteen hundred court cases that scene which ones actually apply to allow like kind exchange. The work we Brittany legal argument is well on this new I don't know if you've heard about it New Question on schedule once atop form that the new form that you report your income on it says did you during the year Send sell receive exchange or have any financial interest in virtual currencies which is their word for crypto currencies. So every taxpayer. Us has to check. Yes or no on that question. And we've written the papers. We think that's actually a bit of a violation of people's rights forcing you to swear under oath certain things that are basically personal matters interesting So let's get into people's obligations. What does the taxpayer need to report? And how has it changed over the years the tax code just gets more and more complicated? My father used to go down to the post office. Pull some forms and with a pencil or he would fill out the forms right. You can't do that anymore. You got more and more complicated. And then people started using turbo tax tax. Act these other software products. And then. If you've got too big for them you had to go to an accountant so it's become more and more complicated at this point. I'm GONNA say the Turbo Tax Tax Act do not provide the type of support. A crypto trader needs to report a fully his crypto a activity. I've defined when we fill a tax form we hate. We hate filling it out right. We just want to wade into last minute. We just want to get it done and mailed you. Don't get off our plate right so we're Kinda just get the form submitted it'd be done with it. Hope the numbers low that you have to pay. But I've said I basically look at a tax return in terms of how I defend somebody when they're actually getting audited? We Are Company. That just does tax preparation but once you get that letter from the IRS. Where they start asking questions. That's when we do a lot of work we kick in and represent people through crypto tax audit. So I've I've defined. What if I knew now if I knew then what I know now how would I have done the tax return differently so we have four characteristics of a good crypto tax return? I call it a bulletproof tax return. You know trying to put a Kevlar jacket on your ten forty so it involves four thinks. I you got to report all your income. Every transaction has to be reported it's either capital gains mining income staking income. You report everything. Secondly you have to report. Every crypto owner has to file to anti money laundering forums once called the F. Bar the other ones form eighty nine thirty eight. All but the smallest crypto owners would have to file these We do that. We also do the tax amnesty. If you haven't done that in past years the third thing is to claim all losses such as if you had a Ponzi scam or financial scam. There's a special way to report that. So you can get a very powerful deduction off. What you invested. Also if you like had lost wallet or talking to one guy. He threw away his computer. He lost his wallet that was on the Computer and he's you know he's lost. You know lots of bitcoin how we claim that loss. Well there's ways to do that so that you could actually whether writing off to take the loss to reduce your otherwise you're gang so that's the third thing in the fourth is to put in a disclosure statement out. This is really interesting one year. I hired a former. Irs Auditor to work for me doing complex tax returns in every time he did one he would throw in these disclosure statements. And I said Maurice why. Why does this disclosure statement? We put this in here and he goes You gotTA understand the mind of an IRS auditor. They're overworked in. They have quotas for how much they bring in. In taxes each month and of course the important thing for hitting that quota is to be able to assess penalties penalties generally percentage the accuracy penalty on unreported foreign transactions forty percent so he said when you put a disclosure statement two things happened one it deprives the auditor of being able to claim the accuracy penalty. Right so he can't make as much towards US quota and he asked to prove that what you said was inadequate. He has to attack it before he can attack the return so it's more work to put them on the defensive. He said when we would get a return disclosures in it we will just closed up at return out move onto the next one to be easier. So that's my goal. I want by using a bulletproof tax return. I WanNa take somebody from me. Low Hanging Fruit for the IRS. To squeezed move their fruit to the top of the tree. So that the IRS won't bother too much of a hassle that's really really helpful and so there's one thing you mentioned there which I think is is really accurate and you know I'm not in the US but it's also true here. In France taxes are getting more and more complicated to do like. We used to be able to do these things very easily very simply and now there's more there's more paperwork. There are more forms. There are more intermediaries required turbo tax of these types of software. And so you know. The average person is overwhelmed by by this. But there's one thing I think that kind of outlines and shows just how this complexity is off you skated. I wonder if you if you heard about this story. Where the the? Us Government Accountability Office disclosed the IRS refusal to clarify guidance on how taxpayers file their taxes. What does this story tell us about? The IRS POLICIES. And how should taxpayers approach? This this is. This is an interesting drama. That's going on at the federal level. The IRS came out with his initial guidance. In two thousand fourteen. It said Cryptos or property. You got to report them like property and then people started having question especially after two thousand seventeen. What do we do about this? What do we do this? Irs wouldn't say anything wouldn't comment. Finally Bunch of Congressman from the Joint Committee on taxation wrote a letter to the IRS commissioner and said You need to address this irs is afraid of Congress because the irs because Congress has the ability to reduce the budget for the IRS. There are very afraid of Congress. Well after this letter the commissioner came out and said last year he said well we're GONNA publish some guidance. That really clear up these questions where people are waiting and waiting and waiting well. October comes in and they. This guidance comes out comes out in the form primarily of Acuna about forty five questions of Faq and a lot of it's helpful someone was New Area there were. There were a couple of issues that were people were not satisfied. With how much does the Government Accounting Office which is kind of like an accountability watchdog inside the government? They came out with a paper that Said said four things. One is these. Faq's that the IRS needs to modify them to say that this is only a comment in that the IRS has to change their minds on this. It's not permanent. Doesn't have the weight of regulations. It's just an opinion he said the. Irs can change as I have to abide by the FAQ. So you need to come out and say that secondly they said you need to speak about the form eighty nine thirty eight which is where you report foreign assets. One of the two money anti money reforms you need to give guides the CRYPTO Traders on how to fill that out if it's required and then the third thing. They said they came after Fincen. Nis because the joint on this as the F. Bar form for reporting the foreign Exchange you need to provide guidance. The crypto owners. I had to do this well before. They published this article on the paper. They always give a chance for the agency to comment and came out last week. Here we are. It's probably a like the fourteenth it came out fourteenth February in two thousand twenty the Gao article came out in the IRS. Position was we are not going to change the Faq to say that it's nonbinding make it clear because it is clearly non-binding they weren't going to make that clear they were not going to make that clear secondly they said we're not going to change anything about not going to comment anything about the F. Bar or the eighty nine thirty eight form. The Fincen Group said that they would come out with some additional guidance later so the IRS basically said. We're not going to comment now. There's two ways I see this one is hey the f. bars pretty in my opinion is very cut and dry. There's a question on schedule. Be which is the form release your interest in deductions interest and dividend income question. Seven a says very clearly. I think it's clear. Did you ever yes or no. Did you ever have financial interest in or signature authority over a financial account in a foreign country? So the question is if I have Accounted hit BTC in China. Is that a financial account. It a foreign country yes or no all right then the second question says if if you answered yes you have to file the F. Bar for Yes or no. Are you going to be filing yes or no? So it's very clear. In fact the Supreme Court has been taken to court. The Supreme Court said this is sufficiently instructive that all taxpayers are obliged to file the F. Bar for so maybe the IRS sitting here saying. Hey it's how we're not going to give guidance on things that are obvious all right. That might be their position. But if it'd be Kinda Nice if they said that the other position would be that. They're uncomfortable saying anything because they have messed up so many times and giving guidance that if they say one thing someone's going to slap him on the back side for not meaning addressing something else so I think at this point in time. The commissioner has basically taken the position. We're not giving any more guidance We know the secretary of the Treasury said recently Steven Mnuchin that they're working on more guidance. Who knows but in my opinion I think the IRS is leaving taxpayers out in the Lurch. And it tells me that they're not completely clear in their own mind what their strategy is which puts everybody at risk and everybody should take a very conservative posture in terms of doing your tax returns right because I mean as a as a cryptocurrency user. You might have an account right you said like a hit be DC or or maybe a binary account or you know any any crypto exchange. You could also maybe have Adam steak with the staking service abroad. Is that financial interest? Is that an account with that staking service. There seems to be that. Well one. Your tax payers are not necessarily. I think informed on where these exchanges are you know does hit. Btu have a presence in the US. Like I don't know I mean I don't know how it'd be account but not to pick on hit. Btc But having to figure out where where these exchanges are headquartered and then all of the other sort of confusion around what constitutes a financial asset or financial interest. I think is is something that a lot. A lot of people might might feel unclear about. You're right on. Let's now switch over and talk about the tax return A little bit more specifically help our listeners. Put themselves in the shoes of an irs tax auditor. What are they looking for? And you know if if you get one of these. Irs Audit Letters. What should you do? This is an important question because we're now starting to see audit letters. Come out I have one here. From one of my clients who's getting audited we. He had done an amended return We only did part of it and part that he did is getting audited and we have and this is the second one so we actually are seeing a pattern. The exact same words are being used. So it's very informative A couple of things the takeaway from this there were people who got letters last year in two thousand nineteen at the irs called educational letter suggesting that they might WanNa tune up their tax return. Well this guy he never got one of those letters. He was reporting about thirty eight thousand dollars of income in two thousand seventeen. I'd call that a small amount and he's getting audited and you know the audit starts all audits start with a request for documentation and it's very daunting a region just a little bit You and I were talking before hand. Write about you. Know if you've been trade long enough you know you got scraps of records all over and different websites and some people sent you emails and other people Senate SMS TEXTS. All you could get was screen shots of a certain shape shift transaction. I mean it's clutter so all of a sudden you get this doc. You get this letter. Irs wants you to provide copies of all e mail screen prints hardcopy prints transaction receipt receipts maintained by the taxpayer or provided by any third party such as exchange broker peer to peer facilitator wire transfers direct deposit records a list of all virtual currency kiosks or ATM's US and their location with copies of the acknowledgement. Receipts you'll like this one. A list of all virtual currency received from hard forks faucets tipping or any other method. Where a sale by exchange was not initiated by the receiver commonly called airdrops including the date. The type the amount of the currency received the data sale including amounts of descriptions of what was received all right. And so this is a plus list. All your blockchain addresses owned or controlled anytime buy you. A list of all transactions related to virtual currencies lent virtual currency lending including collateral for loan loan agreements promissory notes ledgers transaction receives pledged security collateralisation agreements all crypto currency exchanges. So you get the feeling. This is terrifying. We got this right. If if you've never used cryptocurrencies and you were presented with this. You'd Never WanNA touch cryptocurrencies. It's a great deterrent. For people to use CRYPTO and like get into defy and stuff I got. I got a story for last week. I was talking to a guy he was in college and he had invested in. Faucets must've been high school and he'd been getting. He got a couple of Bitcoin by now. So I'm taught he's called. He calls me up. He conferences in his dad. All right so he's like you know we talk about it and he invested all this cryptocurrency into a Ponzi scheme called bit connect pretty much lost it all so I said well you had a big run up in seventeen. That's actually a taxable event. You know so I said you have to pay taxes on it. And he's like oh I should actually just sell everything. I'm not gonNA invest in cripples. I don't WANNA pay taxes. I said no no. No no you gotta understand. Taxes are good. All right the more you pay in taxes indicates you're making a lot more income. I would rather be somebody who I'd rather make one hundred dollars in pay thirty dollars of it in taxes and keep seventy then to only earned twenty dollars pay no taxes. Taxes are kind of like a badge of the fact that I made a lot of money right. So if you if you think about this. The wealthiest people United States that are the wealthiest are living in the states that have the highest state tax rates typically Same thing internationally like you're in France has one of the highest tax rates. But there's a lot of wealthy people in France so if you've conversely if you go to the poorest countries they have the lowest tax rates so or lowest participation in the tax at all so taxes are not bad. You don't want to pay more have to legally but Focus on making income not trying to avoid paying taxes the biggest tax break that all crypto traders get is what's called long term capital gains if you hold a coin for more than a year before you sell it then. Your tax rate goes down to fifteen percent. Otherwise you're up at your up in the twenty five thirty three percent range drink on your your bracket so this is the biggest tax break in. Congress wants Congress has given to you. It's a longstanding tax. Break it's something that we should strive for do long term capital gains. Because you work too hard for your money to just flush it down. We regular tax rates. So let's go back to the ladder and what people should expect once they get the letter very good. That's a great question so there's a lot of it's kind of a mystery if you've never been through it before it's Gary and I was talking to this client here who's getting his cryptos audit. He's been audited two times before so he said. I know the drill. I know what's happening. I said you know the most important thing right. He goes yes. I know that I'm never supposed to talk to the IRS. Agent Myself I go. That's absolutely right it's just like on the TV shows. You never talk to the policemen when they've got you in their interrogation room. You always wait for the attorney. It's during those few minutes before your attorney shows up that they're going to squeeze you for stuff that you're going to regret later so never talk to an agent even if you think you've done everything you know picture perfect. It's not. They're not interested. They already start with the presumption that you're bad. That's why they're auditing you. You know a lot of these. Auditors are not happy people all right so you get a letter. It says you're being audited and it has an information request and please get us these documents in thirty days. All right so all of a sudden. You're panicked right. I gotta get the stuff together. Somebody represent me. It's not going to be my county. Because he didn't know what he was doing. He got me in this problem in the first place. You gotta find someone who knows Crypto. Who knows how to defend people? That's what we created crypto tax audit for so what we do next as we introduce ourselves to the rep to the auditor so he knows immediately that he's not GonNa talk to the taxpayer. He's talking to a third party. It takes the emotion out in a forces him to be. He can't play as many games. Secondly we've packaged. We give him all the documentation requests and then I have a conversation with them and I say look we especially if he has a bulletproof tax return we say look. We've got a disclosure statements here. We've done everything. This guy is above the board. You're wasting your time with this person. We want them to feel like they're wasting their time and if he tries to push it. I'M GONNA drag him out in make unfruitful for him. So that's kind. What an audit is about now okay so auditor after this dialogue might take a couple months the says. I think I'm the art and I think you owe this money now. What happens we have a couple lines of action? We can either appeal to his manager. We can go. We can file a due process. Hearing we can appeal any determinations that came out. There's a lot of different escalation points that are the laws. The regulations provide for us to do that. I address won't really tell you that much about it. But we we worked that process in order to protect rights into escalated because an auditor just wants to assess a big penalty and move on. Because that's how he gets measured right. You might need to speak to somebody more intelligent and more rational to actually get them to dress. Hey look these crypto traders these auditors. Probably know less about crypto than anyone. Who's been watching your show for a month? All right. They know you know they. They don't know it. They just know their little thing. It's confusing to them. So the key is to be as thorough. Be as polite and kind to them as possible and make them go away. That's the best strategy so one thing that you mentioned in that in that audit letter which which I think is particularly interesting because a lot of people that are in Crypto you know like especially like the old timers they got into Bitcoin in twenty eleven back then. People remind pizzas on Bitcoin. Talk for ten thousand bitcoins and sending each other bitcoin tipping. There have been a number of folks over the years. Ed Like People. There are people out there. And you have crypto. That they don't really know where they got it. Or when they got it or how they got it. It might be on a on an old hard-drive. It's like finding old photos scrimmage Gerald hard-driving you find pictures of when we're back in high school or something like that and take that you put it into your into your sort of clean photo album. Well not with Crypto. Because if you do that then all of a sudden you need to start reporting that stuff. How should people kind of deal with this? Clutter well first of all when you're audited. You're audited on a specific year. In this guy's case it's two thousand seventeen so A lot of those types of transactions refer to probably before then the auditor he's been given the two thousand seventeen tax year audit you. He's not interested in sixteen or eighteen unless he thinks he can. You know increases a quota attainment. So he's not going to be looking there those other years secondly and I think this is really a couple words of assurance here one for all your tax all taxpayers. A tax return is not like your high school math test. Where you have a perfect answer. You're trying to get one hundred percent. It's not like that at all. It's about getting close all right because a lot of these things. Get to be debatable. How much was the gain on this? This coin vagueness right. We want to get too close. And that's so I want to because some people are just overly worried about those details. Their worry more than auditors. GonNa worry and I I just want to give that assurance When they audit of cryptos really studied this they cannot really do a bottoms up audit in the same way. You as a tax payer had to calculate your capital gains for all your trades. I mean it's a nightmare but they're not going to double check that because they have no better records they knew they have probably lesser tools than the ones you used on life so the way they audit is rather than coming looking at starting from the bottom up is more what I call a top down on it. They're look to see if you reported enough income that they expected so for example. This was very very real case. A guy called me and he received a ten ninety nine tax form. Ten Ninety Nine K. From Beatrix for a million dollars is that he was he was he was terrified. He said I never had more than twenty eight thousand dollars on. Beatrix how can they issue a one million dollar ten nine k? And I said well. Hey look here's this will give an idea how they audit imagine when you do a capital gains report you list every transaction you say. I am this date. I bought this coin for this amount. I sold it at this amount and it had. This is my game all right so I have what they call it. Cost and the proceeds. I said look so imagine this. So let's he was. He was a little bit of a high frequency traders. Let's imagine he takes ten. He takes twenty thousand dollars. He puts it all on eath the next day he sells it. It's gone up to twenty one thousand. So He's got cost of twenty thousand and he's got a proceeds at twenty one thousand one thousand dollar game so he does this again the next day. Twenty thousand in the Daf that twenty one thousand out so I got two transactions. What does that look like on capital gains report? What are his total proceeds? Well It's twenty one thousand plus twenty. One thousand is forty two thousand dollars. He never had forty two thousand dollars right. Well if we look at the fact the COST COLUMN. That said forty in the total gain was two thousand. Well what how do we correspondence when he was a high frequency trader? So those numbers just got really high. All right I had one client high frequency trader. Four hundred twenty million dollars in proceeds. But that wasn't how much money he made. It's just the way it's counted the IRS. Use that number to see like they're going to expect they got a ten thousand nine from Beatrix for a million dollars they want to see. At least maybe more but at least a million dollar showing up there on your capital gains report. It doesn't mean you had that as income but that's the high level check that they're looking for if you report more than they know about from. Beatrix while the just happy you're being honest but we want to count for anything of a ten ninety nine K. nature that's kind of how the IRS does that so not a panic too much if you get a large cake okay. So they're using these ten. Nine KS is sort of an indicator to see which people potentially they could look into an audit more thoroughly exactly. So where's the thing that you see in your practice where people are getting their returns? Totally alarm wrong was the most common Mistake that people make while find their cryptic return. The two biggest mistakes people make is one. They're not filing the anti money laundering forms. The bar eighty nine thirty eight. These are mass of these are ten thousand dollar penalties moment. The Iris finds it meals. You a letter that you didn't submit enough bar as a ten thousand dollar penalty right there next and then when you actually fill out and give it to them they'll count the number of exchanges you reported multiply at times ten thousand with penalty all right so five exchanges fifty thousand plus the original test sixty thousand dollars and they can do this for multiple years. This is this year mass. This is a massive. Financial exposure is easy to fix a situation. The second biggest mistake people make particularly in two thousand seventeen was they thought they only had to report transactions on their tax return where they went to cash so if they went for. Crypto to cash Fiat then that they would report. They thought that if you went from Crypto to Crypto to Crypto that you didn't have to report those because you hadn't taken any gain out. There's a legal word for this. It's called like kind exchange tax code section ten thirty one but the biggest mistake the then made was yes. You can do like kind exchange up until the end of two thousand seventeen. When the law changed the mistake they made was they didn't. I didn't list all these traits on the tax return in order to get like exchange. You have to list them. So they didn't list them. They're not entitled to a massive exposure for repeal these the two massive mistakes that people make especially the Crypto crypto exchanges. Those are particularly hard to track. Because if you used a service like shape shift before they introduced KC and everything. There's no account. There's no email confirmation that sent to you so there's really not much of a way that people can actually trace these except for like doing a screen shot and keeping it in her files. Screen shouts about all you can do. They're very dangerous Those exchanges from a tax position. Because they leave you with very minimal documentation. It's it's not in a structured format like a spreadsheet screen shots and you gotta stick them somewhere as you described before clutter. I believe as people start to do their tax returns more and more. We'RE NOT GONNA PUT UP WITH EXCHANGES. That do not provide good tools for pulling your transaction logs and in the future you know generate accurate ten ninety nine records. I think this is something that we should put our foot down traders. We won't put up with the stuff that gets us into trouble. So as a crypto holder. Who's concerned about maybe some unreported holdings or Unreported exchange accounts or unreported gains worse than proactive steps that these people can take to protect themselves against a potential audit and potential penalties in the future. The pain that taxpayers feel. I realized I didn't do it right. Seventeen and eighteen. I didn't do my taxes right and I now. This is the common sentiment that now he's out. I want to do my two thousand nineteen taxes right because I think here in two thousand twenty. I'm GonNa make a fortune and be able to pay off back taxes but I don't want the irs to come after my fortune. Because I screwed up in past years well the good news is there's tax amnesty to fix the ANTI MONEY LAUNDERING FORMS. That have been filed. I go back and I do the like kind exchange analysis and there's very few people in the country that do exchange analysis and I'll do it safe people fortunes. Last year guy came to me. He was a doctor. He made a lot of money and a lot of was withheld by his practice but he also invested. He had in two thousand seventeen. He had gotten up to two million dollars. In crypto acids crypto trading. He told his accountant in two thousand eighteen. I need to report this account and goes well. Let's just file an extension? So September comes. October comes count hasn't filed his return. The accountant never filed the return because he was paralyzed on the CRYPTOS. So here then we've talked me. Last year he goes Clinton I got. I got to probably all this game. Plus I never found my tax tonight. The IRS pretty happy with him because they've gotten like they'd withheld like a cup like one hundred thousand dollars already so they like that right so I said look. Here's what we did. We filed his tax returns. We did like kind exchange on two thousand seventeen. As as a result he had no taxes owed for his crippled trading the exchange which was available through the seventeen passed onto eighteen and then you had gains but at that point in time. He didn't have the penalties he's able to get long term capital gains treatment on. It saved them a calculator. Roughly five hundred thousand dollars. I love that. The accountants are also are also scares. Actually I really become much more aware. This from clients calling me up. I mentioned at the beginning and schedule one of income. Now you have to answer this question. Did you have any dealings with virtual currency right? Well all account all tax preparers have to ask that question now because it's in the form they have to answer yes or no all right but they're but then guys are telling me that the account will very view counts in my opinion really understand what to do with crypto currencies. Which is you know. I would opinion about that but what people are people are now telling me is that their accounts have a statement in. There says they're not responsible for any reporting related to their crypto currencies. So how would you like to how your tax return done by guy who's not taken responsibility for doing it right? How much did you pay for that return? So how can you help our listeners? Who are in the US or even you know. I think a lot of our listeners are also experts and live abroad but still have to file taxes in the US. What do you offer them? A lot of experience with experts expect traders my company. We do a lot of tax returns. We do. The bulletproof tax returns to describe but in order to help the most amount of people. We've now offering a service called crypto tax audit at CRYPTO TAX AUDIT DOT COM and for a low annual subscription rate. You get audit protection on any return. The IRS would come after you for an particularly if it's related to Cryptos. Now we could matter what they're coming after we can help you with it. But if you if it's crypto related then our representation services and tax research are done for free if it's a F- it's directly a crypto related problem and. We can do that because we're going to be. We're handling lots of them. We understand how they're coming after it. We know how to answer those audit letters and how to deal consistently with these auditors. But when you do a tax return there's a lot of other work gets done. Besides talking to the irs you have to gather up lots of documentation and synthesize it into something meaningful. That's other work that has to be done. So also in the CRYPTO tax subscribers to crypto tax audit get access to some First of all you get a free copy of our crypto health check book which is a helps you look at your past tax returns to see. How good are they what you have? You done the things you need to do. Magnificent tools about thirty eight pages long. It's chock full of good stuff. Secondly we have a couple video mini courses. One is how to prepare the F. Bar informed eighty nine. Thirty Eight These are the anti money laundering forms. I did this. Because accountants do not know how to complete these software like turbotax attack will not even file the F. Bar form in most accounting software for data professional grade tax. Software will not do the bar form for you. So you know in order to empower my Subscribers given video and they can learn how to do it how to subscribe it themselves they be educated and then we also video how to use turbo tax to file a CRYPTO tax return. Turbotax does not support really a true crypto tax. Return so I show you how to basically go off. Roading with turbo tax had a jam in some extra forms so you can create. You can a Kevlar vest on your tax return and a feel better at night. I want to do things that are affordable for people because not everybody can afford Have a affirmed amend returns for you but if you have some help you could do it yourself. That's the biggest help I do. And if somebody really has a complex problem they could reach me. On the Crypto tax audit web page. You can schedule a consultation and we can talk and fixing returns. So how much does this cost ninety seven dollars for a year so for ninety seven dollars a year? You get e-book you get the videos you get the how to complete your turbo tax Crypto return but you also get you described it earlier as sort of an insurance policy insurance policy for the IRS representation now. There's other things in a in responding to attack return that are not irs representation. You gotta put together the documents and stuff that there's a fee for that. The video mini courses have a very nominal fee for them as well not surprise anyone but we charge that we try to keep the quality up and keep it out there looking at putting more things out there so yeah it's a tremendous value. I think the vast majority of traders. This is what you know. Plus YOU'RE GETTING. You're getting hooked into a team the moment you get an irs letter. You already know who. You're GONNA call your. It'd be calling my staff me. We'll be going right to work to get you the best defense to keep the IRS. I got a quote here for you by us. Senator Henry Belmont. He says in a recent conversation with an official of the IRS. I was amazed when they told me if taxpayers in this country ever discovered that the IRS operates on ninety percent bluff. The entire system would collapse. So that bluffing is a full begins when they start sending you this audit letter. There's it's all about scare is all about fear. So that's why I want to protect people. Defend people show him how to defend. Do a good tax return and then represent people who get selected. Okay I tried to drive this point home here. So what what people get when they sign up for this defense annual subscription is that they get the peace of mind if ever get one of these forms of every day to get audited you'll have their back essentially and you'll be representing them with the IRS. And you'll be calling those bluffs basically and and helping them make the best of the situation and helping them file all these disclosure forms and putting together this bulletproof tax return as you mentioned exactly. That's that sounds great. I mean that seems like a great value. It's fantastic. There's nobody else doing anything like. This accounts are doing a turbo tax tax act or not providing. Don't support crypto traders. They don't offer anything like that. You're on your own but we give you the tools as part of the service because the best time to fix a problem your tax returns before you get the letter. So that's why we put those tools out there. Show you how to do that. Great so please remind people where they can find and hadn't get more information about this. Crypto TAX AUDIT DOT COM You go there to subscribe. If you have an immediate need you can. Also there's a page for non subscribers to contact our offices and have a half hour consultation. Clinton thanks so much for being on helping provide the great resource journalists real pleasure to be here with you Sebastian.
California Creek Fire Zero Percent Contained, Chief Firefighter Says
"The People Fighting California's wildfires include our next guest chief. Chris Donnelly is spent twenty two years as a volunteer firefighter in Huntington Lake California. Good, morning sir. Good. Morning Steve. How are you this morning I'm okay. We've reported a lot on the sheer extent of the fires. How have you been spending your days where you are? Well we we began this this fight probably on Saturday morning about six am and what we did I was get all of our people out of Huntington Lake. Huntington has about probably five hundred and fifty summer cabins in an additional hundred and ten. Condominiums, we had thousands of people at Huntington and Once I had is on the fire, very clear to me that he was going to burn into Huntington and lives were at stake. So we spent most of the time getting people out. Well, I'm glad you've been able to do that. But of course, because of course, we have been following stories of some other resort areas, vacation areas where. There for the summer there for vacation there camping have had to be evacuated emergency ways. you said you got is on the fire can you describe the landscape the way it looks to somebody who's never been there and what the fire looked like. Yeah. Honey. Lake is quite unique word seven thousand feet, and we are the reservoir for a very large electric generation facility. That's two thousand feet below us. Virtually down a steep just just a cliff. and. So when I heard a sheriff's deputies go through our area to begin evacuations about five thirty in the morning on Saturday. I called our dispatch and and and they told me where the fire was. I drove down there about fifteen to twenty minutes away. And look down into the Canyon to about a thousand feet below us and saw flames and new as soon as the morning wins started upslope of Valley. That that was going to be a threat to Huntington. So I recommended that we do a mandatory evacuation at Huntington and began that vacuum evacuation about seven thirty. Our our teams, we we knew this was coming eventually with so much deadened down and the droughts over the years. And temperatures have been drier and well, it's been hotter and humidity's dryer. So said so much deadened down is this mostly forested area that we're talking about This heavy forest. Read for in white for as much as eight feet in diameter. And Bark Beetle infestations probably killed a third of that forest and Ecorse was. Caused by not not too much water much hotter temperatures in the last ten or fifteen years. and. So we have a lot of lot of fuel out there in the forest. You you focused a lot clearly on the evacuation is everybody out safely so far as you know from your area of responsibility. Absolutely. We made several passes through our small community. And we verified that everyone was gone, and then at that point, we had lots of strike teams which are groups of fire engines each. Totaling about thirty five engines by about two PM. At which time is started releasing our personnel to get their families and get out. So right now, the the only members of our fire department, our one company officer, which we will keep their throughout the battle. But it's simply not safe to be there. Well this helps to explain number that we've been hearing the past couple of days we're told this fire is zero percent contained. Is this a circumstance and of course, it's true of all wildfires to some extent circumstance where it's abundantly clear that the massive -ness of dead vegetation that you've described that the extreme dryness means that you really this is something that is beyond human control. At this point I think that's a that's a good statement. I don't know what the future of Huntington Lake is. But at this point to it does not look good. Has. The fire actually reached the the what had been the settled area of Huntington Lake. Yes. We have loss cabins of on the western end of the lake. All communications are down into the area I am not there at this moment. So it's very difficult to get serious information but about six PM last night, all crews were pulled out to about the middle of the lake. And we don't know if they re engaged or not. You said, all crews have been pulled out to the middle of the lake. Do you mean that they went out on the water? No. Okay this is copulated on the north side of the lake, and so a mid mid way on the shore you retreat retreated to a more defensible place is what you're saying. Thank you for much much better said, yes, Gotcha Gotcha I want people to know if they don't that you are as you describe it a brother in the Catholic church maybe a layman would think of you as a monk that is another thing that you do besides volunteer firefighting for twenty two years. How does that inform the way that you think about an event like this? Well you know I'm a teacher at Saint Mary's College and I've worked with kids since probably nineteen seventy. So it for me, it's all about caring people and touching hearts and. It's it's that center of people that I worry about the most you can rebuild cabins and you can go somewhere else but it's the people. So you know just a a little. Thirty second bit for you. Yesterday morning, I drove by a cabin and made a PA announcement directly to people about you need to get out now. Yesterday I called her and told her cabin was gone. And she shared with me that are great. Grandfather that cabin in one, thousand, nine, hundred, twenty. And her grandmother talked about the moments out playing in the woods and collecting pine cones and. As she broke into tears. I. Thought. How many stories like this am I going to be hearing? And how hurtful this all is. Income on their summer cabins, they gotTA someplace to go, but it's the hurt and the loss and. Tens of thousands of girl and boy scouts that. Were at Huntington. And Church camps and private Anson. There's so many lives. So many memories that probably won't be there in the future. So for me, that's what it's about. It's about the people. And all the all the loss. Donnelly thanks very much for your insights. I really appreciate it and we'll continue following the news to see if you begin to reach a point where you're able to battle back. Well, we'll look for that moment to. Chris Donald is chief of the Huntington Lake Volunteer Fire Department, one of many areas in California facing massive wildfires.
#826 - LA Graphic Designer Influences Influencers
"Satis school is brought to you by Lincoln. Hello monday. He brand new podcast from Lincoln's editorial team now linked to an started this podcast because they wanted to talk about how we're changing work and not just how we're changing work. But also how that work is changing us. So work is changing were changing all kinds of changes happening out there. So maybe you want to hear about how other people are building a life themselves doing something that's important to them each week on the show host Jessi Hempel brings reporting and candid conversations from the frontlines of the new office unified. Hello Monday on apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. How do you reach out to celebrities influencers for anyone out there that you wanna work with imagine? There's somebody out there. And you're like I wanna work with that person. I want to do some design work for them or whatever the service might be. How do you actually do it? Well, sometimes it's by doing something for them proactively like not just pitching yourself. But actually saying, hey, I made this thing or I found this thing that could improve the work do or whatever it is. Now, of course, this can be a risky strategy because you're basically working for free for a bit. But in this listener success story, actually comes from one of our listeners who's been part of the show for a while and L a graphic designer reaches out to an influence or she follows on YouTube reaches out to this person who has millions of followers, a famous fashion, beauty flogger and actually works out. Really well for her from that contacts, he goes on to build a full fledged design agency drawing in ten thousand dollars a month and with several other famous or well known clients of the story. Also includes a throwback to my space, the greatest network of all. Time to remember my space while some of you, don't, but you may have heard of it. The story also reminded me of how I met my longtime developer Nikki his y'all just about ten years ago. He pursued a similar approach with me. And since then we've worked on more than a dozen projects together, including nine years of W. Yes. Yes. Reached out to me and said like, hey, there's something about your website that I don't like I made something better. And here it is take a look, you really got my attention. And all these years later all those projects it, you know, it was a result from following the same strategy them. I'm gonna tell you about today. So LA graphic designer influences influencers that story is coming right up. Silence. The school is brought to you by fund drives the future of real estate investing. Why should you consider real estate investing? Well, private market real estate has historically provided. Excellent ongoing cash flow, even as it supports long-term growth. The fundraise platform allows you to access high-quality high potential private market real estate projects in lots of different markets. The platforms innovations power and investor I model by eliminating the high costs in middlemen. That have traditionally weighed down real estate, investing, saving investors, time and money. They've got a fun real time. Reporting feature that allows you to see the development of specific properties in understand. How all the details affects your big picture. If you want to check it out for yourself. Go to fundraise dot com slash side-hustle. That's F U N D R. I S E dot com slash side hustle to have your first three months of fees. Waived. Graphic designer Donnelly had an eye for style from young age when she was a kid. She loved watching Disney shows like Lizzie McGuire. And that's so raven after watching episodes, she would sketch animations and gifts to post on my space for prince to share my space. Just in case you've never heard of it was the largest social network in the early two thousands before Facebook came a lot dont had no idea that she was creating a future reality for herself from a young age. She then began the traditional path that many follow graduating high school going to college and earning a four year degree. But then rather than taking the first available jobs. She found Don chose to travel for a while and figure out what she really wanted to do. She had a design degree and thought she could at least you something with her skills until she figured out. What was next during this face? She earned a living through freelance design work making graphics and business cards to support her lifestyle until she found a real job. But despite applying for various positions. A real job would never come after listening to an episode of satisfied school. That's us. That's our podcast. Don learned about the world of merch by Amazon began designing t shirts to sell between her fulltime freelance gigs and a t-shirt business her schedule was full, but still none of these projects felt sustainable like many millennials, Don found herself spending a lot of time on YouTube watching how to and to to'real videos from top influencers one day, she was on her favorite YouTube influencers channel and noticed. A disconnect between the content being presented and the graphics that were used and she started seeing this as a trend with many top influencers, they had millions of followers sometimes their graphics still had a homemade feel. That's what she saw new opportunity arise. What if she could create better more brand, suitable graphics and offer them to top influencers on a whim, Don with a sample design for her favorite celebrity? Jim Jin is a Korean American fashion blogger with more than two million subscribers and emailed it to her. She told her she wanted to make your brand stand out more by creating visually stunning. Graphics and to her surprise she received a response within fifteen minutes. Just like that. Don, had her first client. She began doing graphics for Jim on the side while continuing her other freelance work startup costs were extremely low exactly fifty three dollars a month for a go. Be creative cloud and twenty dollars a month for website hosting. It wasn't long until she started receiving inquiries from other YouTube influencers asking design help within three months of doing this on the side. Don believed this could be a fulltime career. She began to wrap up those other freelance jobs and focus her time and energy on growing her YouTube work within six months, he was dedicating her time solely to this audience. When she first started bringing in an extra fifteen hundred dollars per month. Then when she went full time with it shot up to five thousand dollars a month. Her client base began to grow with more and more top influencers on YouTube. She's now earning ten thousand dollars a month in profit and recently hired a full time business development partner and part time creative staffer, of course, as with many new ventures. It wasn't always moved sailing as a creative person in a business setting. Don realized that she wasn't prepared for negotiations proposing contracts or setting boundaries in place. So that clients didn't take advantage of her she carefully. He was losing time and money by allowing clients to request numerous revisions without charging extra in return. So through trial and error. She was eventually able to create a system that worked for her for anybody out there wanting to launch a similar business or freelance model Don recommend setting a limit on the number of revisions, you will allow from client. And if they request more outside of that range charge extra make sure you protect yourself. So it's not endless work for one job. And also understand that everything is a working progress. So over time. You'll know what's working or not and can adjust your terms accordingly. She also encourages you to be bold and reach out to who you want to work with don't wait for them to find you because they won't take some time to create a design or pitch that fits your ideal clients Styler brand, and then send them your mockup, give them something to look at rather than just sending your website and portfolio. So that you have value to offer in some way that they might not otherwise, no. That's what she did. Those days watching Disney shows posting to my space have paid off. Well, I often say that anything is possible. You know, there's no guaranteed strategy. Like, this is gonna work. You know, he could end up doing something and not hearing back or just hearing back. Thanks, but no, thanks. But then again, you know, she's built a six figure business from it. And like I said it reminded me of the story of working with Nikki my developer. I'm still working with him after ten years in many projects. So I'm so glad that he reached out. Now, dons advice is just to recap on this point create something that speaks to the client's vision rather than sitting generic portfolio or website. I think that really is key. And I also went to look at her website. And she has this very strong design style. It is really specific. I mean, it looks just like, you know, the kind of thing that you would see going over really well on YouTube with these fashion lifestyle bloggers, so she clearly understands that acetic and is incorporating it, but also adding to it as she goes so clear vision well executed, and you never know. Maybe there's a risk that you need to take a small risk. Of course, not telling you to quit your job. Maybe there is some small risk. You can take would lead to great advancement. Inspiration is good but inspiration with action is better. Today's show notes rolling up Donnelly's work anything else that I mentioned adobe, creative cloud. I know whatever else I talked about in the episode all going to be at side-hustle school dot com slash eight to six episode eight hundred and twenty six my space. Of course, I'm gonna link up my space just in case, you don't know how to find it. It's all going to be on that show notes page, and I'll be back again tomorrow with the weekly recap. Thank you so much. My name is Chris calico, this is side hustle school. From the onward project.
Episode #1858 The New Phil Hendrie Show
"Stella she. Said Mr Worldwide and I'm here to tell you about my new podcast from negative to positive brought to you. But my friends over state farm I believe that the success you gotTa play the game. So the game is a play you you know the biggest risk takers. Is Very important that you make sure you can make the most of your money especially when it comes to insurance state farm offer surprisingly great rates they have great agents standing by helping you personalize your coverage. All this is backed up by award-winning easy use technology. It's a great price with an even greater serves when you want to you like a good neighbor state farm, his dam. Guises Fill Henry. For the world famous Phil, Hendrie show a philanderer website We've concluded our Bobby Duly promotion the twenty percent offer years Bs p twenty percent off select merchandise but that should not defer you that should not dissuade you. That should not distance you or socially distance you from the truth don't ever get socially distanced from the truth friend you can get socially distance some of you probably should be socially distance even without the Covid of course, I'm kidding. I I've met most of you I. Think I bet almost all of my listeners and ninety nine point nine percent of you bathe on a regular basis. Just in his view I beg your pardon. The question is, do you feel a little self effacing humor? Yes. Yes. I do. Anyway we would like you to join us as a backstage pass member regardless of your feelings toward Ms Duly regardless of whether twenty percent off because we think you'd have a great time. We have a backstage pass family comprised of people that are over on our BSP's and more page on. Facebook, we have our we have Friday night chats and our BS P board where you can take a look and see if you're up on the board we have a variety of other little goodies few all of them contain to the website with our home movies. We have newspaper articles and TV and radio interviews that have been done about us through the years about us around us an under. there's lots of stuff to enjoy the Phil. Hendrie. Show websites do join US please become a backstage pass member today. And you'll be loved by God and Man. We have to be blessed like that folks welcome to the show. Today is an encore show today is you know is the twenty seventh of October we're going back to the eighth of October Twenty nineteen last year. When we came on the air and brought on with US Maryland Donnelly Maryland A. Well known transgender female who has been a part of our program various roles down through the years she drove her car through the front of a liquor store. When she heard that Brent Cavanaugh was confirmed after getting sheldon game three of the two thousand eighteen national league. Divisional Series Jack Armstrong charges his changes his mind about Walker Bueller. So, this from last year as you know, the National League divisional series, the dodgers and cubs it I don't know whether it's not just got out of that one. They're doing better this year. But let's go ahead and listen in here. Now as we listen to me, myself I me over you know it's all me. Listen to me and Margaret, and you know all the cats here on this show featuring the very interesting notion that What was I don't even remember what this is about. You need to get some sleep Phil Lazier but wait wait ladies and gentlemen filled needs to Maryland donal donnelly drives her car through the front of a liquor store when she hears the cavs been confirmed yes. After Getting Sheldon Game Three Jack Armstrong. Bind about Walker, bueller right. That's sure. You're gonNA say that yes. On the world famous. Phil Hendrie show. Standard got the news that Kevin had been. Confirm. She drove the car. She drove to the front door of a of a liquor store. She drove her car get to do it on purpose built. But. Over to the front door of liquor store. Yes. She drove her car through the front door with liquor store. And my understanding is. That when she got out of the she was stunned obviously and she was shaken and the owner of the store was shaken. Was Anybody hurt? No, there were no no customers at the place. No. Boy is she lucky? Well she may be lucky I don't know but the fact is. There were a no customers and she was fine but she got out of the car. and. This is the kind of I love. The cool calm collected thinking of Maryland. She got out of the car. And then said, are you open for business? I'll say they're open for business. Well, you know. Obviously the man probably at that point could have gone home. And after some discussion he said, yes, and she bought a bottle. Of Twenty Eleven Silver Oak Cabernet. Okay. She bought a bottle of wine but not just. Twenty Eleven Silver Oak Cabernet. You guys are looking at. She's what are we supposed to know battle? Margaret you don't know what general. No I don't is that a good what do they call it a good year? Yes. The twentieth. The also. The two, thousand, four, Mondavi. Look at you boy I mentioned Margaret we're not wine aficionados here I mentioned a two thousand four. And you guys sit there. You, settle down comfortably on your thumbs just go. What a disgusting thought well, you're doing Margaret I don't anything about why and I don't think that means that I've got my. Parked you know. So what about that? The fact that she had the presence of mind to say, Hey. By the way if you've got the two thousand four. All right I mean she's a cool calm and collected customer. Nobody ever said we're talking about Maryland Donnelly who's a friend of the show she is I don't think. I'm talking out of school when I say. transgender. Yes. But we don't talk about that anymore. Okay. Maryland is one hundred fifty thousand percent woman. All right. We're just double checking on that. So she was so shut she we've got her on the phone here. So I don't know what she can hear me in Maryland it's Margaret Gray and Phil, Hendrie and everyone, and we're. Talking about your accident, the other night. Well. I'm very. First of all I believe it no one on earth It actually happened to Saturday afternoon. When you got the news when I got to the US. Yes about. justice cabinet had indeed become justice on and it was a shock what were you doing Margaret's? Excuse me Maryland. When I don't think I sound a bit like Margaret. Right Maryland. Absolutely? No not at all. Well, what is this going to be? Now it's going to be some kind of a bust the no the no longer existent balls Maryland Donald. Shut up Maryland worse. I'm sorry. Can I just ask you this question? You were in the car on your way to the liquor store. Yes. I was just parking. I was getting a couple of bottles of wine for a dinner party that I I had on Saturday night I'm the newest came across the radio. And they said that Brett Cavanaugh was now justice count on. And how do you like that and stick your pipe and smoke it something like this? Commentary shows while I was still. outraged. Where are you surprised I? I can't say I was surprised. No. The first feeling I had. Was One, of outrage. And the need to take revenge on something or someone, but I certainly did not mean the drive by car to the front door that liquor store but was hostile. Yeah. You WanNa. Do. Damage. Yes, I wanted to do some damage but not near as bad as the damage that was done to your head. You know with. All right let let's get off a let's not make fun of but okay every time we got a chance to just be pissed off into rag on somebody I'm not ragging on him. I'm saying that the damage was was. You know significant but I I'm prepared to make amends by Insurance Company was called the police took a police report. Well, how did you explain this? You're not you thank God you went under the influence of drugs or alcohol no I thought. The officer asked me what happened I said? The gas pedal stuck in advertently hit the gas by mistake. I had a bit of an emotional I was on I was very honest with the officer. So in other words, the office took this report now, he could very well. Did it on purpose well, no, he did not He felt that it was a a legitimate You know accident as they say, Oh, the insurance companies have certainly deliver that way. So we're getting a little bit of background here from Maryland Donnelly folks on. She was in Sierra Madre California where she lives the other night when the afternoon Saturday afternoon yesterday afternoon right When she got the news, the judge of buzz confirmed you suddenly just yes. All of a sudden my foot depressed gas the accelerator by car I hopped the curb. got a little bit of rubber on the sidewalk and then right straight through into the Into the liquor store right through the tube to plate glass windows that they had there. been a damage. There was quite a bit of think came around seventy, five, one, hundred, thousand dollars. Well that's just the structure and then about the one. The presence of mind to get, and this is what I found. Admirable. You had the presence of mind to exit your vehicle somehow were you able to get out easily? No I was I had to call had across the window. And and I was wearing a skirt at the time. So it was it was very awkward. The man behind the counter was staring not at me but at a at a at a space somewhere behind me, that's how study was. Well I I approached the counter and I said, I'm so sorry this was entirely an accident. Entirely my fault by insurance company will be informed. Then you hadn't said anything. I I'm sorry it was an accident. And he said to me well, it's all right You know I you didn't say anything he was he was starting to mini said. It's OK gradually came around I. said this. This is an awkward moment to ask you this but are you. Are. You in business to. Make a sale to me I'd like to buy a couple of bottles away. And that's when he said well, you just purchased an entire. Store. I. said I understand then. Good for you, you got your shot in being very serious. You to buy. A. Do do some business getting done. Yes. Absolutely. and. He finally said you really want to I said. Yes. Well, that's what I was telling the boys you bought a twenty eleven bought a twenty eleven silver Silver Oak, and the two thousand four Mondavi reserved by. God Yes. Outstanding bottle. Of the Button W reserve along about a hundred and fifty dollars. So you were going to get these bottles of wine when I knew that I wanted a couple of good cabernet as because. We were going to have A. Quite an expensive Spanish. And, by Spanish, I mean Spanish European meal with a Paiva. Pipe Poop Poop Papa. What what is Papa and Paiva? These are things you can understand general their. Spanish dishes nonetheless. Spanish wine no, I wouldn't drink Spanish wine I don't know anything about Spanish way. So in any event, what I decided to do well, do you have? Any staggered over and he got the one. We're talking here with Marilyn Donald who the other night the other afternoon keep saying the other afternoon yesterday afternoon drove her car right into a the front door of a liquor store right through the literally through the door and took out both sides of the display windows and the car was about halfway into the store. And then you crawled out through the window win over to the owner and the owner the man behind the counter and I asked the part owner. And that his partner was being apprised of the situation. But I, he didn't get into any of it really for the first. Fifty minutes he was just staring into space. Probably wondering what's happening? something. Yes I- alleged that he was. So that's what I I called out through the window I approached the Out through the window of the car approach, some you bought a couple of bottles of wine. Understanding is the security camera at the store has. Of this. Audio podcast but they do have the video of this. I was told by the police that they would have to review the security camera. there is audio. Here's the of Maryland. Going through that. Window. That Maryland. That was scary. That was unbelievably scary. It sounds as you said, you got rubber. But you're spun the rubber on the sidewalk I did because. Let. Let's be honest The news that the justice cabin was confirmed came as a shock to many millions of American women myself included. I like to think that I'm an individual who has her emotions under control. But obviously that moment I did not and when the news came. To a new station. Yes I was one of the talk stations. I heard the man say. Justice cavenaugh has been confer. He's now justice cabinet that was that. Brad capital has been confirmed as an associate justice of the Supreme Court and then I feel, okay, we'll play this. Here it is. H. How many different yeah. Different versions of this you you're saying bitch and. Having a variety of reactions to this thing but how many different versions of this do they have I l I know that I had a couple of reactions as the car I was angry more than anything else angry that I might have heard someone angry that I've done what I've done angry obviously that I damaged my car. Let's talk to the man who is in the store at that time. Gentleman by the name of Hilton's Zach, WHO's part owner? Of The store and Mr Cooke, we're talking to to Maryland Donnelly who drove her car through the front view. The part you're part owner of the store you to collect them up one of the partners well, three partners. Hello he'll. That's Maryland I again many many apologies. It's okay. For Time. Cable to get all you must have been very, very frightened didn't happen. Leading sports page I was leaving. For. Don Nita to see the horses. And I looked up and I saw a lady coming to talk Cobb and I thought this was what she was. Doing yes. That was what by intention was but then I heard the crashing I look up and I see a car and automobile in my store. And I felt for a moment that I would faint. So starting it was it was scary but. The Way, but I felt for a moment that I would faint. The blood leaving my head to my Blaine Elia, Dyke I could do was to sit up like and to try to focus. Trying to focus on what happened right not only that. But time to focus on their figure I saw was crawling through the window. Of the car I realized this was mistakenly on speaking to now, but I didn't know I I thought cop in my liquor Staw-. I. Saw a woman in last call out of the window. and. Sort of than to come over to me. And I was still sort of studying. You did have a foreign look. You're looking somewhere behind me about you had what I what I call and anyone that's been through any as we used to say, excuse, my language feel anyone who's been in the shit you would i. called Thousand Yard Stare. Yeah I could've been I've not had that Vietnam turn. Yes. But it's term anyone anyone who's been endanger is used to looking for danger and a far away place. Yeah So. So he had the thousand yard stare and I came over to you and you've seen to. I felt like I felt the blood of attending to my head when I had. You say, do you have the bulk of course as a nice bottle and we did for ninety nine dollars and then you ask for the Mondavi for one hundred and fifty and the blood fully. Fully Return Your head when you find out how much money you're GONNA make. That is uncalled for. I I suppose that. Makes my dad would. Come back of my head really when we should try it because we've been waiting for years for that to happen I don't know I. I. Don't want you. You're talking about I'm just saying. I but what I'm saying is that. As soon, as I had missed, only say do you have the Mondavi two thousand and four I said you liked this way I I immediately just kicked into my old school because my family's from handled by. The German family. And I clicked into my own schooling that like this them And I still felt a robotic I feel I was holding above my body over and above your body. Yeah. I. Felt as if I was wondering about my buddy at directing the lady to. Divine, you know they said to yes. Ma'am right this way to the deliciousness of demand W., two, thousand, and four. And she said okay. But I was not in my body I was about five feet above my body looking at me doing this. Is Jazz. It was frightening. It was de fighting yeah. Well I am so thankful that no one got hurt. Hey Man and that while there was considerable damage to your store Sir and I know the store that that I used to live Serum Andrei. That don't they know you I don't think I've been in there since but because I've moved out many years ago but. Because it's been a liquor store, but also somebody told me Tina at one time. I don't know I'm just. Very. Grateful that there was no damage where where did you get your close that I? Can I don't know Sir never bite about that okay. But again I'm glad that there was nobody hurt there was considerable damage. We could tell by the sound of that. Now let me ask you how many different. Security cameras do you have? Sir. We have therefore in the front of the store that pointed and we have a the plea that pointed outward. and. That that was that the police access though is because I'm wondering because Maryland, you had like three or four different. Reactions. Well I reacted and there was the initial reaction I had three or four reaction because I had time to have three or four reactions. The whole sound like they're happening when the car is hitting the. You know when McCarthy know what? When hitting the front of the store? Dear it sounds like I said the F. and then you said. The S. Word and then you well, I had a couple of. Yeah I. I don't know that we took all the film footage and so the police have all that they have all the tip accordingly how much. Damage I think. You told me Maryland seventy five to one hundred thousand dollars. That was my that was my insurance companies. Probably more. Always going to be more. Monthly Wednesay? 'cause there was a lot of stock you took out you know. I got out of the car and approached you. I didn't know at the time that you were not functioning properly. I asked you for the and for the silver because I knew they were expensive bottles. I appreciate what you're trying to tell me. That's GonNa make up for you smashing. I don't know how many thousands of dollars. Not, making up for, but it was a goodwill gesture. And now you're gonNA nickel dime this you guys don't want argue about this. Now I don't want to talk about it now, I have to talk to. Long as trying to nickel and dime me, I'm not trying to nickel and dime. On. I wanted to make sure I know. You don't want to argue about this here folks this is something your attorneys for your. Insurance Company attorneys. What do you mean my attorney? We're not talking about having to sue anybody. We're just saying no point in you guys talking about this here on this show. I. Did I. DIDN'T I was spending my own business leading funny papers. Are You I. You said You were reading the sports page. This is interesting. Wait a minute. What are you trying to hold on Maryland? What are you doing what he said he was reading your E. Lee racing for him I know I was leading the comics. You're reading the comics yes. Sir I heard you say you read the Racing Form Santa Anita. I might have okay. No. Because I've seen the funny papers I said I gotta get. I. Always ever. See the funny papers because we get the any time today the Daddy. Yes and the funny paper is obvious on the top. The funny. But you've read the comics. Yeah. Yeah. Yes so do you send your? Sports. What did I say I said leading sports you said, you're reading the racing form. Yeah, you read the racing form because. I don't These are the discrepancies that I think insurance company. Maryland excuse me I. Don't think the Insurance Company's GonNa care whether this guy was reading the funny papers. I can insurance companies not going to because they're going to say that is suffering from post. Traumatic Stress Syndrome. Give me a break? No, no, no, no, no no no. No. You have to be on a feeding into that mcdonagh need to find how you feel and a reasonable Maryland. I'm glad you think Mr Henry but you're not an insurance adjuster What are the police say police told me that if it is an accident then ice ugly. The police did say it was an accident. And I said to them. All right. Thank you. I said, does that mean I have no culpability they said, no, you'll have to talk to your insurance companies about that. But they they didn't cite me they check the car I believe that is going to probably do highway patrol probably look at it. Highway look to see is anymore die any was that any the existing damage to the car you know because if they've been pleading testing diamonds and that means that the car was was was it it was going to. have. An accident. Right. Yeah. What what he's that. I don't point spun it. We're talking with Maryland Donna me at Donnelley, and we're talking with a Hilton Zach. Part of the liquor store that Maryland's car. Inadvertently by accident drove through the door of after, she heard that Kevin had been confirmed. When I heard that that you love your car. Movement for Justice. They should get the secret service. For God's sake but no no no. No. Then I realized she was by an accident, but I thought you were going to like to try to take him out with a cars something. Oh no no I was shocked and stunned, and it's almost as if you you you said, you almost fainted it's almost as if I almost fainted then I leaned forward. And as I leaned forward, my foot hit the gas and into the store Michael. Went. Well. That sounds reasonable. Enough it was a shocking day for a lot of people Mrs God, show you understand now. People don't like. Everybody. Else breath pretty normal. have been been nor even for a guy like be who voted for Donald Trump I realized what a weird day it was and it's just been kept off by you driving your car to liquor store not that I intended to do that general but. I don't think so I'm happy to say that and I totally policemen. And and how are you sir? I. Feel Good. I had. Some headaches and blurred vision I don't know what they tell me that I had ptsd to. What is with this PTSD everyone heading? It is very common. It's a common metal barrel two things to. You know to people who suffer these kinds of traumatic events. You know I've talked to a doctor said, I should go to the doctor to make sure that I'm not. Crack you know like, I'M A. Like I'm case or something whatever. Happens to these No No. No it's not that kind of thing and all you. Yes you did suffer a shock, but it's not like you came back from a war zone killing babies or something I don't know come on William Maryland. Well, that's what most people think ptsd is that's what they. I mean I wouldn't know. Well, thank you very much Mr, Hilton up and Maryland Donnelly. I'm glad that all's well that ends well, try not to make a problem where there isn't one that is the truth you guys are trying to. See. You're both trying to poke and prod and find out where the other person's a weakness. It's only natural when so much money's involved I can tell you I was I almost fainted and I was I had the thousand yard stare you say but. I'm jump. You know you comes to my money man, you're GonNa have to get yourself. A whole lot of not you're GONNA have to get a whole lot of gleese and get hold of elbow grease. You know and a lot of Greece sounds like inserting. Talking about loosening something thank you very much barrel and and and Mr. Suck. That could have been a very, very dangerous event and it shows you I think well, let me ask you something doesn't that speak Maryland Donnelley's mental condition than it does American women well, why do you say that because not every American woman was driving a car through the front of the liquor store we don't know how how people reacted to the news. Obviously, there are a lot of people are happy. There are a lot of people that were angry. In Maryland's case it was inadvertent and involuntary. That's the word. Right there involved involuntary reflex yeah. We've been involuntary reflex catch moon to, but it made it do it. You know what do you mean it made it to it but carr the Carr. The Carr. No. The car didn't go. Yeah. She had the involuntary reflex and then and then made the car and made the car go into the big store. Margaret mock him. Well, what are we talking about here saying that she goes? Yeah radio GEICO's yeah it's justice. Is He's been confirmed and Miss Donnelly. A. Lean forward in car just goes yeah. What is it with you with a man of? The decision, but it didn't but once knew what she had decided and it went along with it and it went along with it Yeah. The corden go yeah. But in its own way when he? Dickman I. Wish however Hugh because like I said You live in Candy Clown came candy clown can be Ken Clown. Candy clan. Yes you live with the Candy Cloud clan. WHO's at Kennedy? Cloud. That I kill some wait a minute man. We'll be right back world-famous Fillon reshow. Fill. Every show has over thirty, five, thousand hours of archive material going all the way back to our days. Well, we've got a couple of hours from W Minneapolis. Go back to our days in Miami and those archives are getting loaded in as we speak, and of course, are nationally syndicated show local show in Los Angeles at Kfi. It's a beautiful thing man. So get over and get backstage pass with for a month with the FI. Yeah. But get when it filling reshow dot com that's philly showed dot com. Your ticket to fun. Absolutely have now Jack You. Lately, we've been doing these part twos and threes which I find really interesting in talking to different guests, and still on the line with us here is Jack. Armstrong is likely received. We do these part two's. Guy On the next day bring him on either breaks cast and well I know it's a little bit of a follow up. I think Jackie wanted to come on and talk about this. Didn't you want to come on and talk about? A couple of things that I think need to be talking about first of all field. you know I was on your program talking up Walker Bueller who the Los Angeles Dodgers Pitcher who has been phenomenal in day lake going at the season. He's also been very good very strong in the playoffs against the rockies and so I thought that. He was going to do and I've talked about him like You know I think that he's one of the best that was kids a pitcher. Lookie pitcher Walker Bueller and he's been people have been talking about him like he's the neck, the second coming of San. Colfax. Well, I was one of those people. I was one of those people and. Then comes the game on Sunday 'cause I know that what we're doing here is. Too Short another time, right? Yeah. It's cool. This is Monday for intensive purposes. Okay. And Flip on the radio Tuesday I flip on the TV to see and to see. All. Right. I'm having a little bit of hard time. Gets water something. Glass of. Okay give me some water daisy. I flipped on. The dodger game to look at this guy Ferris Bueller Ferris Bueller. Pillar. So. I see him. I look I say. What's going on because it's a five nothing braves. And Busy mcgillicuddy here, who does my nails? I was getting a manicure at the time. That's why that's quite a nice luxury I get a manicure once a month you know that's that's I just do like I don't like the look of I don't like the look of jacked up nails either. So I'm with you on that one Jack Thank you. Guys do that they I don't care I. Let's get on the subject again here. Is Walker Bueller. At. I said the daisy who is doing my fingers I said that might are my. I need more water. You're you're obviously a little emotionally overwrought I feeling. Thank you? I feel as if my credit could. Delete your credibility yesterday my really been. Wrecked because what happened was I looked at his five to nothing dodger. Excuse me five nothing lente. Now, by the way I, see this the Games now tied up five five right. But the fact is this guy who I told everybody was going to be like God. You know you know he's going to be great. Well, what were you? Just some performances I was basing it on the fact that yeah I sent some performances, but now I should tell you. That I also was listening to ESPN radio in Los Angeles Day were saying that Walker Buehler was, and so I sort of went along with that. So now, that's their fault get stuck there. But I was listening to ESPN radio and they said they thought that that was you know what they they thought he was going to be good so I I. Went along with that and you start telling all your friends. I put a lot of guys in the business you watch this Guy Walker Bueller and then I turn it on tonight. And he's getting his he's just getting his rear end kicked all over the place gave up a dinner maybe two. I don't know it's five nothing like I said right now it's five five I don't know if he's still in the game you know general no I don't know he was in five two and then the dodgers stranded right now it's the top of the sixth because again, we're a prerecording this on Sunday night folks. Well, I be interested to see if he's do you know if he's still in the game daisy. We don't know. Here's what here's what I want to say is that. It is. It's him at Bat. Goddess. Bueller. He's a debt. No, that's Beller it's been. Oh, it's. What who cares if he's back pitchers are lousy hitters that's true I. I forgot all about that I just want to come out and say to anyone who heard me talking this guy up like he was the second coming of Sandy, Koufax and lefty Grove Lefty Grover and grover Cleveland you know in. Cleveland Grover Cleveland Alexander was a pitcher. That yeah, I thought he was good. But I don't think I said he was hall of fame. You know what are you trying to get yourself out of here we're talking about. Jack his I'm not trying to get myself out of nothing I. Don't have to get myself out of nothing. You're coming on Hilton. I just want everyone to know that when I talked to him up. But you know he's not that great. He's not that great I don't think I said he was great. I said he's you said Colfax I, know, not quite Well, who did you say I said he did say Colfax but I said. Not. Colfax like through his career, maybe in one of these years or something like that. If he loses a playoff game. What are you talking about? Man Seven Colfax lots world series games but we're not talk about Sadie Colfax do you think this guy? Bueller this this Walker Bueller is a great pitcher or not. I mean I. You the other day you said, he was great. Do not feel that though I said he was great the other day and today. Today you think he's great today I think he's I, don't change my mind on nothing folks. Let me tell you something Jack Armstrong makes up his mind cause this up forever and there's a shot of them right now in the Dugout although they have somebody up in the bullpen. governor anymore would do you know who that is? No I don't know the guy you know and I. I think I think he's great. Not. He's great. Not always he's great. Not Always Jack what exactly. You're afraid of I want people to know that I know one's poke. I got a bunch of guys I walked into the right room today, which is. This little talk the allows it a lot of the sports guys hang out a lot of online guys and the first thing I'm hearing people saying, hey, genius this that this that you're still picking that Ferris? Bueller I said the guy's name as Walker. Bueller. Yes I am. I said and you know what? Go ahead let's put the money under barrel head my God you bet I did yeah. Well, that's why you're having a hard time man. Okay. That's why you're having a hard time your your what what did you bet I? Bet The kids would go. Like. Eight innings. Well it's the top of the six and they got somebody out of the bullpen I. Know that I see they get yourself some water I need more water. Here's my position. This is the position of Jackson Armstrong on on got damaged locker buehler's the guy's name Fucker Bueller I think he's great. Yeah You said the other day was great. It was a great pitcher. He is a great pitcher. He's a great pitcher. ship a man right now he's I don't know he might be might not. So. There's Jack Armstrong Jack a little bit of advice for you man. Oh, here we go. No this is good advice. Get concentrated on being sports reporter. Before you go into the world of opinion, making before you go to the world of writing columns and giving your analysis of things just make sure that you are reporting it properly band I am reporting properly tell me that guy's got a great pitcher. He's a, he's a great pitcher in certain. We don't see that for this guy to say that he's a great pitcher in terms of his. Longevity you know is a hall of fame pitcher. We don't know there's a lot of guys that start out hot arms go bad. And they don't have a career. Who you're talking about now, there was a member of the team Fitch Yeah that kid mark federick never forget he was a world beater for the Detroit Tigers Idaho for two three seasons. Now, who is this guy by the name of markets in the seventies? and. Then all of a sudden his arm went dead. Coo Mark Federick okay. The bird think I think they call them the bird something like that. And federal hissed all of a sudden went nowhere man. So you can't really say you don't really know you have to see a career at work. Okay, I mean. I don't understand they appreciate that but I don't think I need no advice. Yes, you do jack you do because the last time you were on the show you were you you're all upset you were defensive. You really were very defensive about a lot of things and you need to be in to be able to take some advice I'm taking advice I'm saying that I think that Walker? Bueller. Stinks always great. He's great. He's great. Well, which is. A hard time breathing. That's the only thing that you're. GonNa. either. Great. Pitcher. He stinks. So he stinks definitive opinion. No. Thank you very much. I. Think I've had enough of this I got to a woman to. Jack. Armstrong. With another meaningless appearance on our show. Great Money fantastic live encore show tomorrow. and. Today I'm off into the wild blue yonder and God house brand doing look good. Old Lady Cat is not doing good Manso. I don't know maybe I'll have to border today at the vet and. I gotTA. Give her a pill. A canape not me. It's not easy. I know it's not easy. A dog. You can just open it is don't be mouth in put the pill channel vitamins. Should be okay. I hope. So we're famous philander show executive produced by Phil. Henry for Samper Incorporated all rights reserved on podcast one we'll see you. See You. On Wednesday with a show, but the encore show is. Just rolled off the tongue.
Episode 441: The Reckless Moment (1949)
"Hey there podcasts fans are you looking for a new true crime podcast checkout gangster house the new podcast from imperative. Entertainment Gangster House has has everything hospital Hitman at B. I.. Informants are prison escape of Van Explosion and so much more. I'm Jason Hoke creator of Gangster House and producer podcast megahits Atlanta Monster Broken hearts and monster. The Zodiac killer. Listen to gangster house right now on your favorite podcasts player. The starlight lounge presents an evening with the progressive box nine. That's you go tickling the Ivories. He just saved by bundling home and Auto Progressive GonNa finally by a ring for that Gal of Yours Hugo. Send my condolences this next. There's in my own progressive casualty. Insurance Company and affiliates discounts on available in all states or situations Christopher media. Let's make some noise is operatives no should get along very nicely without. You're not the kind of person I want. I want to see. I hope you're not judging by temporary surroundings. Mrs Hop on my part. I know the kind of manual honest adobe. I'd gone to the trouble to find out. I see what you weren't interested in me at all. You want it with money. Look excitement are dealer murder off. Aw well no a murder right over on the other side of the highway in the murder right here. In Balboa I'm character by the name of Darby these he's less as mature adults. I wrote the LET Dahbi I five thousand dollars cash Ted. I just wasn't a diamond and I met. You came like a fresh wind blowing through my stuffy room own not Ted if I can make up my mind do ask yesterday right. I'll have to introducing the capital one walnut rewards card earn unlimited five percent. Back on everything you buy at Walmart Online. It's the perfect card for all. Your family is hints. This holiday season like five percent percent back on the air fire. GRANDPA told you about when he fell asleep in his chair Friday amusing or five percent back on the laptop. Your sister had carolers sing in the capital one walmart rewards card earn unlimited rewards including five percent back at Walmart online. What's in your wallet? Terms and exclusions apply capital one to call the police data filene's in welcome to the projection booth. I'm your host Spike White. Joining me. Once again is Ms Sam Degan. Well hello again and also back in the booth is Mr Colin Gallagher. Howdy we are continuing our member? Twenty nineteen with a look at Max opals the reckless moment released in nineteen forty nine. The film tells the story of Lucia Harper. Played by Joan Bennett. A mother WHO's out to protect her family from the forces of evil including Ted head Derby a swindler who's making moves on her seventeen year old daughter be short for Beatrice after Beatrice accidentally kills Darby rb wherever he just accidentally dies. Mrs Harper goes to great lengths to cover up the crime which leads to more and more trouble of of course. We're going to be spoiling this film. So if you've missed it over the last seventy years please be warned so Colin. When was the first time you saw the reckless moment? And what did did you think. The first time I saw was probably ten or so years ago is passing by the late lamented. Kim's video on saint marks displace and they had a box of bootleg. DVD ours out front for sale. That had just been transferred from vhs tapes and the cover art or just been squeezed and this was there had never heard of it. But I adore James Mason. I adored Joan Bennett and I had seen. Maximum feels was caught before which I loved so I brought it took it home. It was barely barely watchable copy but I absolutely loved the movie movie and waited several years until I could find a import dvd from the UK with an actually watchable print. Is that the indicator. How about you SAM? Years Ago I had this blog and I would do these kind of they. They sound insane to me now but I would do these like really comprehensive review series where I would take anywhere from seventy five five to one hundred fifty films in particular sub genre and try to watch and review them all which was a really great way of of watching things like film noir titles I had never seen an and so I did this huge like one hundred fifty films noir series and one of the things things on my list was this film and I would say two of the things I fell in love with the most that I had never seen or didn't really know anything about before I did. That series was the reckless moment and caught and I just was so blown away. This is a first time. Watch for me. I had never seen this film before war. We talked about Max hopefuls. I think it might have been last year the year before we discussed the earrings of Madame de and and I just realized wow I really don't know very much about this filmmaker but I love the earrings of Madame. Do so much. I was so impressed that he made twenty seven movies. I think in he lives such a short amount of time. I think he was. What fifty five years old? Anne had this wonderful wild career. I mean I've talked before about so many filmmakers who came over because of World War Two and then some every once in a while filmmaker would go back and he was one of those filmmakers who went back and those last few movies that he did were just absolutely spectacular and then diving into the ones that he made here in America during that short stint of from World War. Two Up until I I think with was his last American film. Nineteen forty nine before he goes back and makes around. And this was as you were saying calling. This is a gorgeous gorgeous gorgeous film and such a compelling narrative and I love that at mixes even though this is you know I could easily say that this is is such a melodrama and it really makes a lot of sense that one of the special features on the indicator disk is Todd Haynes talking about the King King of MELODRAMAS and he makes a mistake at one point calls the director. Douglas Sirk instead of OPALS so I was like okay. That kind of makes sense. I'm sure he's so used talking about cirque news that staircase which is very circadian. That appears throughout the movie. Oh Yeah it's like A. It's like prison bars. The last shot I mean that is one of the most sort of exciting overlaps. Those movies like Kat unlike the reckless moment woman and I think also like some hitchcock movies like Rebecca and suspicion that you could describe as being kind of a women's women's film or like a women's melodrama but they also have these sort of gothic thriller elements in Film Noir Elements. And I just love the the all especially this film. They don't ever like delve into the supernatural or anything like that but they make the home such took place of menace and terror in session. Effective way did you guys have a chance to read the blank wall that this was based on. Yes I couldn't get over the narrator it so it's the blink wall the book that this was based on I guess that it was serialized instant Paul because it felt very very serialized with the way that we had the ups and downs so the narrative like every single one every single chapter seemed to end on a cliffhanger. It was ladies Home Journal. That's right I think he does a good job of giving you that same feeling at the ending of certain certain scenes without having it sort of smack you in the face too much like an actual film serial it was Elizabeth Sand a a holding. Who wrote this? It's a third person. Sometimes it's like a close third person and then it's a first person and I couldn't get it over it's so much in lucious head and her justification for everything and I was very curious how they're going to translate to the big-screen well and it's hard for me to imagine anyone other than Elizabeth Bennet playing this character like just like. Can you imagine somebody in the film. WHO's maybe I don't want to to be negative about it but like a different type? Who is maybe a little bit more of plays more of victim character or somebody who seems more passive? It's like she makes the did I call her Elizabeth Bennet. You did. But I wasn't GonNa be Dick. I've been watching a lot of dark shadows lately and it's like I know her name. Is Joan Bennett. But when I look at her I think analysts Beth but I I feel like it makes her anxiety like her bringing bringing her sort of like iron clad will to the role it makes her anxiety and that kind of sense of inner monologue in justifying everything thing way more believable for me. Like I really can't imagine I mean caught an I promise I won't bring up every other sentence but Barbara. Bel Geddes is his stars in caught in a very different character type but she's very sort of like wistful and she's trapped there and she needs to be rescued queued and like Joan Bennett does need to be rescued by anyone. But it's like her. Internal anxiety is causing all these problems and I think that just translates translate so well well. They do such a smart thing of having her take control of the narrative even though we have this Voice of God narration at the beginning. Who never comes back? I kept thinking that it was going to be a character inside at the film. He sets things up and kind of tells us about how Mrs Harper's taking your car and going to Los Angeles we'd and we don't know why exactly but here she goes and she she leaves the family behind and it's like we get shots of almost every single family member in that opening and her leaving them and then we see her take charge and going into this place and we don't know why she's there and it's this very low seedy motel there's people loose morals there but she again like I said she's taking charge and confronting this Ted Darby character right off the bat and saying you need to stay away from my daughter right now so we really get that stealing nature that you're talking about with the way that she is taking control which is funny because later Iran in the film you're right she's never hysterical but there are so many moments where it feels like the the. The pressure is mounting in that she might crumble crumble if she was less of a strong person. One of the things I love about the opening shot of the car going is it. Establishes is the fact that she is on the go and throughout the whole movie. She's always busy doing something she has some problem to solve. She never gets a moment to herself in even when she's in the car her sons in the boat yelling. Hey mom where you're going and she never gets a moment away from the family and then even when she's in the car with James Mason the Roofer pulls up next to her when she's in the house even if the kids aren't in the room you can hear them yelling for her and and at some point James Mace even says. Do you ever get away from your family. And she's just like no every time I come back to this movie. I just love how the opening shot I just establishes you know defected. The whole world is falling on her. She has no time to herself. She can't have a moment to catch. Catch your breath and things Only about to give more hectic and I think that's a heck of a lot to do in one shot on later on. She has that line. That I'm definitely definitely paraphrasing. But she has that incredible line where she says to him and I think it's during one of their car scenes. She says you have no idea how a family can surround around you and I love the he off. Feels take see sort of like film noir tropes of surveillance and and people always watching you and kind of paranoia and instead of making that be about the police following someone or war criminals on someone's tail. It's like that comes. That sense comes from her own family and such a believable and depressing way. Like it's just it's so grading like you feel so bad for her. I mean are the cops even in this version of it briefly really at the By the water. Like you see the lieutenants Gimmick Dick Little League press conference thing I think. But we don't have a Lieutenant Levy like we do in this story whose yet another force WHO's kind of breathing in on her but instead like you were saying it's the bad guys who will talk about but but yeah it's the family in the family's always there. The family is always observing always questioning and. I'm very surprised that she actually has. I can't really say an ally but she has someone who she can kind of share a secret with with bt. Because in the in the story she has no one maybe simple but really really no one she is completely alone and everyone is against her even her own family and the way that her daughter be and her son son. David are always on her questioning her and WanNa know her motives for all of this stuff and she's doing her best to protect the entire family family but they are giving her a not an inch. It really is surprising to me or I guess especially the first time I saw it. How a can go against this sort of beloved kind of family dynamic? That started to be in all kinds of TV shows in the fifties like this idea of the nuclear family. As being this kind of all American paradise. This film is so so against the family but at the same time. It's such a real kind of motivation for her to do the things that she she does. It's like they're not not just her specific family members but just the environment of the family is so toxic. There's there's another big difference between the story and the movie. Which is that the movie is coming out in Nineteen forty-nine and so the husband Tom just like the he's missing missing and he never comes back to the story in the in the story in the in the holding story he is away and he's in the Pacific theater so he's in the navy or the army and he's fighting the war and there are all of these letters and she feels very compelled to write him always and in this one Thomas still away but he's he's a builder of some story? They make mention they. Don't really come out and say it too well but I think he's going to Berlin to talk about a bridge or something so he again. Is this missing figure. And it's funny. How large charge his presence looms even though he has never seen in the entire story or movie? He's supposed to be there to sort of help. Rebuild War torn Europe. So it's it's kind of an extension of what he's doing in the source material. But I always thought that was interesting interesting an interesting choice. His absence because it's sort of an inversion of the typical Gothic trope where the mother is always absent and the young girl has to deal with kind of an oppressive or restrictive father or male relation and here. It's he's absent absent but it's almost like her idea of the right thing to do is what's the real over overpowering repressive force. His being missing also adds this pressure. Like I need to keep all of this stuff together while he's away it's like if he comes home and things are screwed up he's going to get angry. And that's the last thing I want in the entire world is too upset my husband so she just keeps trying to do the right thing even vigneault for awhile. It feels like every time she tries to do the right thing. It just keeps turning out wrong or there's other forces at work that she's unaware of a lot of of these American films of his all kind of share this theme of being persecuted exile. And it's amazing to me that he could do something like that so well in a film. That's about somebody who's not an exile. I mean she. We live in a house full of her family. But it's like the only person she can relate to is James Mason and I mean how can you blame her but but we'll get into that later and do you WanNa talk about Ted Darby and I'm curious to if I mean the the names in these stories I was Sir are interesting to me. Just the have Derby Donnelly. And then we've got Ted and Tom and I guess we've got David in there as well. So we're hearing a lot out of the same consonant sounds between all of these male figures and I guess the other male figure that we have is her father and I think it's her father in in this. I want to see in the remake. It's though husband's father but in this what it seems like it's her father. I think you could probably do a pretty interesting examination of living parents. In kind of Thriller Film New are from this period. But they're also also inept like maybe not all of them but it seems to me like a lot of these sort of parent figures and I mean even if do you think about something like Hitchcock's the lodger and the sort of forties version of that it's like the parents are not they. They don't take responsibility. They're not particularly good role models. They're just sort of fumbling along and it seems strange to me. The first time I saw this film that she's the one who's supposed to be the head of the household and her father just kind of acts like another child so interesting to me that a a the changes they made to father character from the book to the movie is in the book. He's much more lissette in the murder of Ted Darby maybe or is he. Because that's the thing that I like that. She thinks her father was the murderer for so much of the book. Yeah and she will do anything again to protect him so she's protecting be because she doesn't want these letters to come out because we find out soon that there are letters written between Ted Derby and be but then. She doesn't want anything to happen to her father because she's convinced that her father murderers uh-huh Derby it's like wow okay and no pressure no pressure no pressure whatsoever. Is it just me or is a lot of it all taking place in her head. And I don't mean the actual events I mean she takes in what would be kinda crappy situation and because of all the sort of pressure and expectation and need need to take care of her family in need to keep the family together and things running smoothly. It's like her anxious thoughts and feelings of guilt on responsibility that she's not good enough sort of snowball into this situation that like earlier. We we mentioned that the cops aren't aren't really a big presence in the film and so it's not like the laws really after her. It's more what she thinks is about to happen. I'm reading reading another holding novel right now. Called the innocent Mrs Duff. That's a great title San exactly what you're saying. That's the way that she's structured. Should this book. It's about Mr Duff who is a great day scumbag but just through little little thing by little thing. It's all in his head he's the leg Zayed's so he keeps making mistake after mistake which he then decides to solve by drinking drinking more and more gin than more and more Scotch and he's just he winds just hiding bottles everywhere but if he had just confronted the problem head on and they're actually there wouldn't have been a problem he's the problem. He's just an hassle but it does wind up becoming another like accidental murder. Just like in this. So she's definitely reworkings plot and character motifs. I mean I guess the reason. She's so upset about these letters between Ted and her daughter are sure that they would tie be back to Ted. And then Ted's dead but more than that more than the murder order thing. If feels more like an embarrassment more like a societal embarrassment that these letters I think are supposed to be pretty saucy saucy and that seems to be more of the cause of distress then this whole idea of them being written by a dead man in the the novel kind of what. You're talking about this idea of like a scandal. The sense of shame is much more pronounced because my my read on the novel was that they were barely getting by sort of like a middle class family and she's already struggling to make ends meet in all of their children's families the children's friends families are much higher in class in. They're trying to pretend to be something. They're not which is yet another pressure on the mother. Yeah the whole idea of of her. Having the neighbors that they keep being compared against and that the neighbors have a spot bought at the The boat club and they're inviting the father to join and the father said well. It's really not that much money and it's like you can barely afford anything right now. They make such a big deal of her trips to the grocery store and simple the maids trips to the grocery store and that was one thing I really appreciated appreciated about the book as well was Sybil not wanting to go to a particular store in town because the guy there was complete racist and wouldn't sell chickens to this person because she was black. And that's one thing that's missing from the movie but I do appreciate that. Civil is still uh-huh black in the movie and that she is probably one of the most competent characters in this entire film because there are so few competent characters. I feel like it's is thrown thrown into sharp relief. It's he's got those crazy like big shoulder pads and stuff and it just looks like she's ready to take on the world with those shoulders. Listen stuff just plow through anybody. Who's going to threaten the Harper family? It kind of surprised me. The first time I saw that she actually is sort of given even some support on that. That's what comes from like. I think it's once you start to notice those sorts of elements. It seems very obvious that this was based on something written by a woman. Like juice has a sort of very depressing yet. Authentic feel deal about the pressures of motherhood and running a family and I. I definitely agree with what you were saying earlier about. How this this whole thing about the letters and anyone who writes a letter in an office film like they're GONNA be in trouble at some point? It seems to be more war that she doesn't want a scandal to get out and I don't know if I'm reading too much into this but it also seems like she doesn't won't this kind of public acknowledgement that. She's a failure as a mother. You kind of get the sense that she feels feels responsible for be having this affair and she feels like it's all her fault if she had been more competent and and had brought her shoulders as it were like that never would have happened. Oh she hadn't let me go to art school than she never would have met riffraff. Ted Derby to begin with art schools always to blame. They probably smoke cigarettes. They're probably do those beat Knicks. I was surprised. Is that here in the movie that be finds out about Ted Darby drowning and dying and all this because in in in the story she does not. She doesn't really know about him until the story gets out until poor Lucius finds the the body. And what's the most natural thing to do in the world. Call the police. No you take the body you put it in a boat and you drive it across the lake and you plant that someplace or here. She leaves it on the beach and yeah she hides the body just like one of the worst things that you can possibly do but again. She's doing it all to protect the family but at least with this B. understands why she's doing it and be he is well in this one. She's not necessarily an ally if anything she's like a source of potential mistake like she has also monitor what be is going through. Oh and wants to get rid of her almost as soon as possible wants to send her up to a place in Lake Tahoe and just ship off so that she doesn't screw anything up isn't isn't it. Be suggestion to go to Lake Tahoe in the movie. You're right I think it's I'm confusing it with the book where she wants to send her off to aunt grace or something Someplace upstate New York in the book. The mother wants to send her away but in the movie. The daughter wants to go away. Yeah there's this very weird mother daughter tension that reminded me a lot of something like mildred pierce. Where the daughter is just kinda terrible part of me? I mean I'm sort of unforgiving of characters like those but she's just such an ungrateful Brat. That like you kind of want her to at least be arrested arrested or questioned or you want something to happen so that she's aware of the gravity of the situation and stops just sort of throwing these tantrums uh-huh but because her mother is so feel so guilty in trying to take care of everything you never really get the sense that she goes through that awareness. I hate the sun to David so much. Look like chides. His own mother for driving and Taken the boat out and it could be dangerous and that he needs to replace a spark plugs and that he bought to those spark plugs out of his own money and he wants fifty cents for them. I'm just like kid. Your mom is barely making ends. Meet here in this household. She doesn't not shouldn't be paying you. Fifty cents fucking spark plugs. They're both telling her what to do is if they think they know the score and they do not know at all. I do love these introduction when Joan Bennett comes home and you know the bees in her private bathroom so so once again. The mother has zero space to herself. And then there's the thing mother you think you understand people but really that you really are terribly old fashioned. You can possibly understand a man like Ted in the way she delivers. That line is just so brady. It's so perfect. Oh yeah because she believed to Derby in a heartbeat over her own mother of course and that's one of the most effective things about the film is that you have these two man. Dan Splitting Children. Who are just giant BRATS? And it's like I think what makes the film's in conclusion. So tragic is the fact that you will at least i. You genuinely want her to leave her. Ask whole family behind and run away with Donnelley. Because he's the only person who is nice to her and treats her with respect. Oh totally they will get to it when we get to it but these reaction to the whole thing is more relief like oh I'm okay not like Oh my mother's okay or like we're all gonna be okay. Here's a family. She is totally selfish. She has reverted exactly who she was before. You know awareness. No no kind of character there are no change so it's like you get this horrible sense that she manages to save the day and no one's is going to be held responsible for Darby's death but nothing in her family life has changed in everything will go back to the way it was. I found it interesting to feud the set this whole thing around Christmas time. Because that's just seems to add to the pressure. You know that kind of reminds me a lot of like It's a wonderful life and just that Christmas is supposed to be this joyous time but all of these pressures come with it and they've got the damn kids playing playing the piano and the girl is missing Souza's her paddles and all this stuff is going on and then he got the fucking uncle who loses all the money and you're gonNA be fucking destitute and here. It's not necessarily as insane as that but it is still bad and then you've got. Here's you know father other bringing in the Christmas tree and it just then. The husband isn't going to be home for Christmas and it just adds more and more pressure to all of this stuff as well that here. It is all also at Christmas time. The really genius way to sort of underlying this idea about family expectations appearances and things. Having to be this perfect way we mentioned Donnelley. And let's talk about Donnelley. This is the James Mason character who is in my opinion. Right up there with Joan Bennett. One of the most interesting characters that this movie has to offer. I mean he's also really hot got especially when he's doing that Irish accent. Good Lord off. I know I mean this. I think I think and get sort of a shame because I feel like people who are maybe not as into cinema and maybe haven't seen some of these older especially forties late thirties films. Think of James Mason as the sort of older man with his gravelly voice. and You you know he's James Mason but when you see him in to me this kind of period in the forties is the highlight of his career like he gave amazing mazing performances throughout but he just plays some incredible roles during this time where he almost almost as dislike heathcliff type figure where sometimes he plays outright villains and sometimes he just plays these kind of more complicated figures but I mean he just he so compelling you kind of have the feeling thing that like he could do anything and you would still want her to. We've with him. I mean to go from the odd man out to this this film both with those Great Irish accents. It just like that is a hell of a double feature speaking of accents. Since have you heard his southern accent in cold old sweat. I heard it in Mandingo. Thank you very much. I haven't seen that pretty intense a lot. I have a soft spot for a cold sweat. We watch that last night. It's I think tariffs young. Made this one in. Its WanNa Brunson's European in films shot in France he's married to leave omen And then James Mason in a bunch of other people break out of prison prison. They had all been in military prison together in there looking for Bronson because he owes them a debt and they want him to like motorboat them like across the border in Mike. Jill Ireland is involved somehow. Course it's crazy it's wild it's Bronson and James Basins accent is amazing and it's it sounds incredible. I I enjoy the movie and it makes me happy anyway. That's off topic when you said. He wanted them to motorboat them. I was something else. Okay so what exactly Josh. Not just an innocent young boy watching. HRIS Bronson movies so Donnelly is the most fascinating character to me because he starts off as a villain and then he he changes throughout this movie. It's something that you don't necessarily see. I know that there are extra on the BLU ray talking about James Mason. Jason is being fatal so taking that found fertile and throwing it on its head and I can kinda see if we were to gender swap Lucia and Donnelly and this man in trouble and here comes this evil dame who ends up having a soft spot like okay that that you know. I've I've seen that before. I've Seen Gloria grahame. Kinda changed her tune in movies but here having this male character changes tune in this move is very a surprising. You don't expect that and you don't expect him to come in and be this Suave Scoundrel and then slowly we start to realize that Lucia is a great woman who is trapped in this horrible situation and then when he starts to to do these nice things for and he does nice things right from the beginning though they come in very small patterns and then start to get bigger and I will say right off the bat when he gives her father what I assumed to be some winning horse Picks right off the bat. Then it's like okay. He already radius starting to work with this family. And then that's really. I think seeing her trapped by the family and his lack of family I think helps turn him into a different person under my favorite details from the book. That didn't make it into the movie. Be Is Berating. Her mother go. You can't it'd be seen in public with this man do whatever they want and then when she's behind closed doors she's part putting on makeup. She's she's getting turned on by this. I mean Kenya. Blame her he also looks damn good in an overcoat but have either have you seen the night has is I have been trying to. I can't find a good copy. I'll have to if I still have mine. I'll have to send it to you. But the night has is is is. It was one of the first sort of younger James Mason films I saw and he plays kind of a similar type but the film is definitely more more of a gothic thriller. It's kind of like these. These two young women traveling through the countryside get derailed by storm and they're forced to stay a- At this Manor House of I think he's a writer but he's very tormented and very James Mason and they safe they come to believe that. Maybe he's a psychotic killer but he does this sort of similar about-face where he becomes more sympathetic. And of course as you're watching it you're like yes. This is James Mason. Everyone's GonNa Fall in love with him by the time. The film's is over. But I I love how he's able to make that type The night has is is much more over the top hop in a gothic melodrama sense than the reckless moment but I love how authentic he's able to make it like you still can believe that he is this hardened criminal while at the same time understanding how he has a soft spot for a family and why he starts starts doing nice things for her like. It doesn't seem ridiculous. I think one of those moments too is when he goes into a drugstore with her and she's going in there to use the phone and the pharmacists mistakes them for being a married couple or a couple that's together and that he ends up buying a gift for her which I thought was very nice as well and just that it's almost like he's trying it on. He's trying on the whole idea of what. What would it be like to be respectable man here with this beautiful woman? One of my favorite parts of that scene is when he's buying the cigarette holder. The Grocer says I can't tell if the list says two or three cans of toothpaste. Let's make it three in sort of like being a yeah. Let's cheat a little little bit you know. But let's charge your little more. He's trying to be complicit in ripping off and I think that only adds sympathy. I mean in terms of like Jane's Mason Following for Joan Bennett. 'cause he realizes heck you can't even trust the grocer everybody's out to get this woman. Those are my favorite scenes in the film. Tom Weirdly I mean I love melodrama so probably not weirdly but the just those moments of them running errands and doing domestic do things together like their chemistry on screen is so good and the characters complement each other. So well that you you can see what it would be like if they actually were together and you wish that that could happen. My favorite line is went on. Its right after after the The roofer pulls up next to them and then drives off. She looks over at a James Mason and says that we told you we should've taken my car and it's like wait. You're telling your blackmailer lake. I could do this better. You should have listened to me. I thought there was a really charming and funny. Not only does she have to worry about being blackmailed but she also has to worry about her social standing thinking that people are going to think that she's having an affair with the sky and that can't happen but yeah but anyone who looks at James Mason probably is gonNA assume that they're having an affair out of jealousy right. Yeah and that's one thing. Yeah I mean the kids start to suspect that at least in the story. It's just like what are you doing with this man mother and you've started to change when you're around this man and Dad's away. Hey how dare you spend time with this man. And you don't have a chaperon or anything it just that becomes yet another pressure on this poor person and she. You can't tell them. This man is trying to blackmail us in ruin our family and he wants this obscene amount of money. And I can't even buy meat for the table. And he's now trying to bestow gifts on us any sending US roasts and Hams and all these things. I'm talking about the story. Sorry just so. Don't look for this in the movie if folks are listening but you know it's like so now she's got even more troubles you know it keeps going and going and going. I think it's no coincidence. Either that in the in the book version you meet Donnelley's partner you meet this guy the naval and he's the first threat to come to the door and then donnelly comes and then Donnelley's like the nice guys good cop bad cop though he's not a cop up and then in the movie they did a smart thing I think by leaving Nagel offscreen and you hear about Nagel and these almost the the same as the Tom Character that you hear about him. He's an offscreen threat but finally they come through with Nagel in the movie that he is. It's an actual real physical threat. So there's something that I wanna get back to quickly when you're talking about in the book how he sends and he sends them like Hams and all these extravagant things and something that I spend a lot of time thinking about with off feels films. uh-huh is the way he deals with objects because gifts and jewellery and any kind of luxury items are usually really heavily weighted in his films. uh-huh like they get people into trouble. They often have these sort of the they kind of set off the chain reaction of events events that leads to something tragic happening and I mean you know you have the scene in this film where. She's trying to sell her jewellery to kind of come up with his blackmail money but but in the film version he doesn't give them let like you said you know when you're watching the movie. You should not look for the Christmas Ham to be delivered delivered but he. It's his gift. Giving is different in the movie than it is in the book and it almost seems like for officials when a man gives a woman a gift. It's almost always elicit in some way. It's either a lover who's who's giving a romantic gift or a husband who's giving some sort of course gift that says that he controls his wife or he owns her but the gifts and the things that he gives her in the reckless moment are all these really kind of small practical things that that seemed to be more genuinely romantic than if he you know sent her a whole bunch of roasts or bought her a fur coat or something along those lines and I just have always found that so fascinating with the way off fuels places such importance on objects objects in his various films. It's like one of I think one of his unifying themes and it just is so interesting. How it plays out here here like this idea of small? Domestic interactions is more romantic than any kind of big gesture. Has It's such a great point totally agree. I like the way that you say his name by the way because the first time ever heard his name it was pronounced Ole Fools and I was like no full. No this is not an Irish gentleman. His name is not Oakland and Darby. Oh fools and the little people. I'm sorry and I'd like that. His name is not spelled the right way in the credits. It's that when he was making this American films it was the drop the H in those Opel's that poor man I mean when he wasn't being a kicked out of of countries and sort of being forced I just I feel like that exit an I know I talked about this a little earlier but I feel like that exile theme pops up so so much because he's always kind of being forced or at least asked to change who he is whether he's losing the H.. Completely or whether he's missing his own lout I mean the poor guy couldn't get a break. I had the great pleasure of a a couple of years ago seeing his son Marcel. Give a talk in this. Really tiny lecture room it was probably like twenty a twenty five people and he talked a lot about his father's work. And sort of how this idea of you know surviving surviving. The war is what led him to make his documentaries but he was sort of saying that he felt like that idea of being in exile on always being on the run and spending so many years under a hostile government or at least a government who viewed you as a foreigner definitely had a big impact on some of his father. Seems as well you and I talked on the one episode. I mean it's it's a similar Miller story the whole idea of Laurey being in Germany and then coming over here and then really trying to embrace the American way of life and then eventually going back and making the lost one. I mean just that that immigrants story of so many as filmmakers and actors and actresses. It's just amazing. All of the different on trajectories that their careers could've taken and what we managed to see in all of these different people and what happened to them. People spend a lot of time. Talking about how film noir is such a you uniquely American thing but to me I know that like I'm not the first person the ever think or say this but to me it's not even about being distinctly American thing. It's about being part of a time when so many people were exiled from home and so many of those exiles whether they're writers or directors or actors it came and made these films about being persecuted in exile. And that is one of the things that I find so fascinating about from the war. I guess says that it's not. It's hard for me to see it as sort of a national movement. It's it's kind of like this. International Melting Pot movement. That just just happened to be by a world war forced into one place at one time and you know what would it have been. If if that wasn't the case I wanNA talk about the whole idea of the shopping list to this whole thing you talked about how the The grocer sure the pharmacists can't read the shopping list and then a shopping list. The different one ends up coming up as being this possible downfall to her and I just find it so ironic that of all things that could trip her up that it's a shopping list that they find under the body and it's like Oh my God the most domestic thing you can possibly do is make a shopping list and here it is and this might be what screws her up. I also found it interesting. Listen to that in the book that she has a different reaction to someone else who gets caught for the crime who gets pin. The crime on she immediately goes to all my God. This is bearing false witness. This is a sin. I cannot commit a sin and it just becomes this whole thing of her torturing herself more with this idea of a guy who might get accused of a crime that he didn't commit that she thanks that she committed or is at least covering up in the movies. The shopping list is she finds it at the end. She does which is great okay cool. I just wasn't big swim to make sure okay. Yeah but she thinks that she's she's screwed up because you can't find it. Oh you know I see what you mean. Yeah and again that goes back to what you were talking. Awesome in her own head you know she manufactured this own sense of like evidence of guilt. Yeah and that's one of the things that strikes wakes me so much about. This film is in film noir. The most probably common protagonist type is this sort of guilty guilty persecuted usually male character. And it's hard for me to think of another female the protagonist in film noir. Who is as guilty as she is? I mean usually they're persecuted but the persecution is coming from somewhere else like from husband or you know somewhat some other way that they've gotten themselves into trouble but here here it's it's like eighty percent coming from her. It's impressive how much she torments herself. I can so relate you know she's her own own worse than a map over anyone who over thinks a lot will love this movie and you're talking about the the idea a sacrifice and James Mason. Does that found fertile thing that that last moment of redemption. Because he's the one that comes in and when Nagel shows up he ends up taking care of NATO taking care of as and killing and then pretty much. I don't think it's the necessarily the fickle finger of fate. I think it's almost like the censorship board as far as him having to die at the end into this and he ends up taking the blame for stuff so it imports things again with him. Being the person that it takes the blame for everything and really redeems himself by protecting her by by throwing himself. You know the the the whole idea this car crashing. And then he's just like Oh. Don't worry I'm all set now. and has this very emotional final scene which you would expect again like Gloria Gloria grahame or some other really bad girl who's trying to redeem herself to have a lot of these movies especially some of the the film noir titles that could double as women's melodramas like the The Humphrey bogart movie. The two MRS CAROLS COMES TO MIND. They have things about them. That are great but they also have a lot of issues sort of problems that you could point like narrative aired of problems that you could point out but this film. I just think it's so perfect. It's I love it so much. I've talked before about about the idea of hands and arms and them being kind of a stand in for Phallic symbols. I don't think it's a coincidence. Incidents that he ends up getting his arm stabbed in this fight with Nagel and that he can't really use his arm in the rest of the movie. I think there's gotta be something about that. And it seems to be sort of related to this idea of his masculine askin physical power and he now has lost that in a very kind of literal in in your face way I agree with you. He kept telling her that throughout the whole movie. El Al Take Care of. It'll take care of it in the end. Like Nagel still got to her. You know. He's I think he probably felt a Simpson's failure. Everybody feels like a failure in this movie. Basically I just want to give him a big hug. But you can't because his arm is all busted aside hug on the other arm pat on the back. It'll be alright donnelly. It does have to me the at least a similar ending to. It's a wonderful life. This whole idea of the family being reunited at the end and them getting the phone call from the missing father from Tom and her breaking down on the phone. But in this instance. It isn't a whole like. Oh my Gosh I am the richest man a and Bedford falls. This is Oh my God. I just dodged such a huge bullet and her saying like we miss you terribly. I don't necessarily fairly by it. Because like we were saying the handrail right in front of her makes. It looks like she's in prison because she is. She can't get away from anybody now. She's stuck back in this prison and like you were saying. I really wish that she had had the opportunity to run away with Donnelley. I think I would have been much happier for her. That scene right before she gets on the phone when you see her alone in the room on the bed. Just bawling is such a heartbreaking scene. It's like the first moment of privacy. She's I had for the entire movie. She's just so distraught and she's finally letting Oliver emotions out she's had you know to keep bottled up in order due to keep the family together no offense to other actresses but especially around this particular period watching Joan Bennett. Cry Cry is not like watching anyone else cry because you get the sense throughout. I think most of her film roles is from this period that she's such a strong figure and doesn't get swept away with her emotions like so many female characters stereotypically do that when she finally does break down and cry it is just gutting. I WanNa talk a little bit too before we take break about the camera work and that was one thing I remember specifically about the Eram. Earrings of Madame was the idea of these longer take takes a very intricate shots and that is here in force in so many areas of this film so many so many amazing shots. Oh my God it was just gorgeous it makes it easy to watch over and over again. I mean I think the same thing applies to a lot of his films but the sort of trio that he made of this period letter from an unknown woman caught in the reckless moment. They all have so. Oh many beautiful staircase scenes that you could do a video essay and just watch it on a loop and they're just beautiful so but so oppressive staircase jail one of my favorite shots Is At the end of the movie. Joan Jon Benet's on her way home she gets out of the CAB As soon as she walks through the gate there's a hundred eighty degree pan as civil jumps jumps out from behind the bushes in Psych niggles. Waiting for you and your family is really mad that you're late for dinner like to to really horrible problems. Both of which he does not want to deal with one is one way and one is the other in. Which one is she going to deal with? I and it's ridiculous that they have to take equal weight in her life. Yeah you would think that. The boss of the blackmailer coming to visit would beat pretty bad but in this one it's like which is worse the family or the blackmailer which I think as we we keep bringing up says a lot about how her family life really is in about how horrible her family is like. Just give them all to Nagel trade him in sure could sell be into white slavery and I'm sorry but she's she's supposed to be seventeen. She doesn't look seventeen now. She was twenty four. I can see why that art dealer was going for the other thing. I wanted to bring up in terms of camera. Movement is the scene where she meets Dali which is just extraordinary You know it's in the living room in for the first first time in the movie. She is dead still in. There's one of these like now. Another like hundred eighty degree camera. Turn as he's walking around the room and he's the closing all the doors you know. It's as if he owns this place his first time being there. And it's it's such an intimate space in feels it's very invasive way that he's you know manipulating everything in trying to close things off. But then in the middle of that. Her son runs through the door. It's kind of like wait. She can't even get blackmailed in private in her own. Right as it's it's an odd moment of comic relief in an otherwise extremely tense seeing law and there are so many of those moments where something happens wins. Some sort of typical film noir thing happens with her trying to hide the body or trying to deal with the blackmailers so many any time someone from her family either interrupts her criticizes her tells her how to live her life and it is I guess yes I really think about it exactly that way but I think you're right. It is comic relief but in sort of an absurd kind of black comedy. Way where like yes. It's funny that she has to deal with this. But it also makes you WANNA tear your hair out like give the woman a minute. Oh I totally agree. Those are some of the most. I remember the most like real darkest moments in some of the most excruciating to have to watch. 'cause we knew what she's going through in her family cannot not give less of a ship. Now they're just so myopic like it doesn't even occur to them that she could be dealing with anything beyond their needs. I love one of the lines at Lisa's her mom. She says the differences. When you're seventeen today you know what the scores she says? It would such typical teenager like. Oh I know what's going on. You don't know a damn thing it's not. Aw teenagers say that today. I'm sure they will continue to. It's totally believable. Coming from me but Oh my goodness Joan Bennett knows the score much better than she ever. Will you kind of wish that Joan Crawford would show up and slap are something when when she says things like like that. Yeah those moments of the dark comedy they really reminded me of hitchcock and like those weird moments when something would go wrong like you know forgetting your tie in the back of the potato truck or something you know just the. It's just those dark twists where you're just it's like. Oh Shit what's the next thing that can go wrong and the the ads very I guess. This movie reminds me somewhat of a shadow of a doubt. This this whole idea that does domesticity that is in danger and that young Charleen is the only one that knows what old Charlie's up to in. She can't do anything anything about it. They both have the same sense that this kind of idealized domestic caustic suburban. Life is really just of thin. Veneer that can be cracked at any moment. And I mean you know somebody like David Lynch has made an entire career out of exploring that but I feel like those two films really really show you you. How kind of insidious it was even in the forties in such an effective but such different ways? You mean if you were to tear the front off of houses he would find swine there. All right we're going to take a break in play an interview with loose bacher. The author of Max opals in the Hollywood studios and we'll I'll be right back right after these messages The New York Times James Calls over DOT TV a haven for indie gems. You can watch hundreds of feature films and documentaries on overdose. Not from directors there is such as Clare Denny Debra Granik Shohei Imamura and Chantel Ackerman. Most of Ovid's films are not available on any other service from now until December sixth two thousand nineteen save fifty percent off your first three months involving dot. TV TV JUST HEAD OVER TO WWW dot O. V. DOT TV THAT'S WWW dot O.. V. I D. DOT BTV and sign up with the coupon code rejection at checkout. The offer expires December. Sixth Two Thousand Nineteen so so act now either faithful projection booth listener Chris Statue here. If you're looking in for even more deep dive discussion both old and new on and off the cinematic beaten path. Check out the culture cast every episode. I'm joined by a different guest as we traverse I. The cinema landscape talking about not only are monthly theme but also some of the year's biggest films and even joined the host of projection booths. The one and only Mike White so if you want to listen to even more conversations on film head on over to culture cast dot com or find it on all pod catchers android and irs. I'm Dave Hunt and I'm one of the CO hosts for super true stories and podcast to suffer through and report back on some of the worst documentaries stories you can stream for free actually going and the other co host film is a beautiful lie that teaches us about where we are on the inside. David I look at the documentaries. Whatever the ugliest earliest truths teaching you about mixed martial arts and fishing poorly fake stories and everything you wanted to know about poor production values in stack footage? Check us out on itunes Google play or at super true stories dot com. I'm Chris Cooling from forgotten. TV and you're listening to the projection booth. The ultimate movie. PODCAST it. I wanted to ask you if you don't mind the story of him coming to America because it's always fascinating to me. The wave of of immigrants so came over. When did he come over? He was the last of the major European directors to come over came over in August of the nineteen in forty one last August. Nineteen forty eight so he was here for full eight years. He fled the Nazis very price Ruston nineteen forty three right after the fire of the rich sock until the screenwriter but that he was working with many projects in Asia said why why are you leaving. Aw said he said No. He knew it was gonna have the newest happening. He tried to talk of leaving and he didn't didn't. You got out in time but never should've renewing should've left earlier so an end. The whole thing was going to new France than starting his career there with other like France long arrived roughly at the same time to have Matt All these people rushing in same time and then having a lot of negative reaction from the French film the State. Because I felt that we're taking the same thing happened when again Ballymun so it became a quiet on active anti-nazi operative producing using a radio show radio program Hitler counties if victims in his brain thing the most famous one and that put him of course put him on on the Nazi pursued list so he had to get out of there soon as the the Germans were coming into the country any fled to to Vichy Frost ultimately down to Marseille ultimately. He was invited added to Goto Theatrical tour swollen directed someplace there but he had to leave in there which is a great place for him to be negotiating with Coming to Hollywood not much easier to communicate. He left Switzerland reluctantly. I'm back to after produce all almost mid a film that started shooting Eh. Then these kinds of problem. The Senate didn't work odd but it's an interesting project and so he went back to vichy France and a but Grocott gut this his exit visas on on all other documents were required and then fled and to across a parent as to Spain through Spain to Lisbon. took the last the last ship ex campion out to New York. The degree of on I read My colleague Code Offers Treatment of advantage differs somewhat for Mine and my bays. He's much of it on what I heard from Marcello Holes and other sources that had him Go across the the mountains. Basically on foot across lake like many of the Emergency Emergency Rescue Committee people dead until I thought autism since the was involved with his flight flight with his escape I thought that that was As described for other people you know going on foot would across a month until they could find some mode of transportation but then may not be so. I have to check that again. Getting getting to Lisbon than catching that That steamer to New York was quite the quite an adventure. You've got to New York the last of the bunch and to Hollywood and it shows a problem in many ways had he negotiated something. Did He have a job lineup firm when he got there he was dealing with the best possible agent for that situation. I was Paul. Kohner owner pokonos extremely helpful. GotTa may sort of job offer document a few months. That look very official. You know it wasn't really all set the way it seemed on the on the document and so he led Ed Advised Oprah saw message savior now on you got to to Hollywood and moral choice links Sudan was to go see corner on Koelner basically poem action to so he did help them to performed another Asian. He was able to to find some personal things. You could pursue it was supposed to see a the GO-TO MGM is he LD. Mayor and Who Maggie had met in parison booty? Six and mayor ear had made him an offer income. The Hollywood notables thought about a things are going pretty well for me right now. I'm going to stay here. And Mayor was not a forgiving tight. Wouldn't even saying no showed office but it was not a As people make it out to be the you know the end is that that he was unemployed for four or five years or six six years starving in down periods in there. Yes but the all. Mac's always working on getting the next assignment. He was not to be deterred in give up easily and so he did what he had to. What he what he found most of all was writing projects and so he He learned how to be a Hollywood screen. Writer from the ground. Up with one of the best sprite. Practitioners Howard Koch so hard. became his friend friend that figured into his getting the job for for a letter from home because the two had collaborated before various assignments always Always had something going and then Breslin stages forty a default forty four gave him the gave the assignment for vendetta from thereon. He had a steady paycheck. He thank stages all this thanked him even after they broke up after the the ASKO. who had that good back together and powers and starches also also End of the first real job being the exile would God for the invention of Falsehoood who had a big head but the colors and so he He interceded on his behalf and Fairbanks new awful fools because he spent a lot of time in England united in Europe produced over there. He got that job all all all the punishment with what happened between him. Impressed sturgis he said that there was a fiasco. AW director stitches couldn't stand watching somebody else. You are on so early on. He started the I do three day. She started in a fairing and Max One in there and really the elaborates grain shot of the arrival in an Josu. The brain moved all Deccan this action in their it is fantastic. Set up one wishes. One could find some way Preston. Who had really taking his time with the Senate of heralded above all of a sudden talk by now punctuality and getting pages ages and and all of that in just a complete turnaround from what he got for himself was third? Then by the time US solve the Russia's in his sickbed had actually started to interfere in directing and then an awful Scott say say action at costs because he was contacted he had a contract for debate. Director William Miserable. This production was very was watched by the industry. Got A lot of coverage and everybody knew what was going on so you got the the support from the community and the mark was the option in that in that sense never friendly anyway from brass so the from there on the quick succession of the Of the to universal fells the continuity from one to the other which is what exactly what Max light a like. He didn't like to worry about the next the the next assignment so he got right into ramparts production bill though Scher witch using the same personnel. Basically know them my point. Is that That couldn't have been a letter from one on without the exile before that because I learned the ropes learnt the wittman learn how to operate operate with an American crew all that with the exile and had his fights with the editor with with the Front Office having learned that he we already have was developing strategies. Nine continue doing all the way through his career. He he was able to to start making letter letter from Very efficiently but all the way through had various problems with breath the editor With those are who was looking out for number one for ramparts production and his and his wife down the demand for coverage became a big deal on the shooting. retakes shooting the shots of Joan Fontane to a lesser extent. June Luger. Now there was a whole different situation. There Anthony Ed experienced with fairbanks fairbanks situation was mostly about Oba does not wanting to provide right coverage in a different sense lie he would have long strengths of along. Mobile takes unprovided the no confidence. So you couldn't cut them. The editor was marry. Were sent Foale Accounts vary resentful of the and so ooh earns Ninsu a supervising editor who supported him and They had the support of the front office. I know and The production executives. It was diverted difficult situation than by the good fortune. He didn't have much of a gap between the end. The universal. I should say that that he had a contract. You was was actually a contract director with universal with the contracting shared between fairbanks productions and Universal International. That it didn't but it would not renew. It is one of the bitterest moments in his career. Hollywood career that happened But he was lucky. Both men Ryan hard had the WISP reducer for costs whilst calendar Zu national title based on the novel which they kept some names but not very little. He made a transition to that and that had its own challenges but but he had more freedom there than twenty other shows. I was more incidents of Inter fans. The so-called rabbit shots were mason gets up to grabbed his bag and do go to help the girl who has botulism awesome turns out they wanted to Taught Seinfeld News had had started with David Lowe enterprise or productions and Charles Line fell was the charge he was in charge of the after hours of enterprise and David lows and much more relaxed laid back and serious type and info giving will all the problem with not wanting to shooed. Dude cut to a close up when he on the realizes it spots and he said the action of his getting up will. We'll show go. I do. We have to cut into Gaza farmers. I DIDN'T WANNA make out of it. What he learned the enterprise working with the League? Arms and Morris Rosen cinematographer key crib. Dolly Grip Morris Rosen had invented the crap Dali for Hitchcock on the Pera gene case. Then they had used famously on rope. Of course Oh fools. Had the the BURP grow the the the solid grip code that was used on the on road minutes badge to have who that could do those those shots in the shot with Jimmy Hall and in the doctor's office member the parents keeps on bill is. It's amazing I Jimmy. Hawkins described the holiday shot Bethune interesting and how few weeks until after bad adverse to yeah so With all this signals very complex thing would be done so he learned how to to continue learning on a on a quest that he have already started on the exile which was the shoot while I call hall in my writing? Expressive long takes which is basically Substituting Camera Movement Mondays into different position different angles different distances from the subject with substituting for cutting and what better instrument could you have to to learn how to do that then a craft as it happened the studio five enterprise uprise Raleigh Studios. Now I understand this is a new stage for the floor was perfectly smooth and on later on call front was shooting Lucy the lucy show in there where he pioneered the concept the fighting having three Dali based television cameras so that was one advantage. was that that it was perfectly smooth Tracks far you're so he came out of the out of that experience for do sing that kind of long and also combining it before I call the rhythmic long. Take which is what you see. So much and Law on Lopez Zere were monitor. which is were the camera just seems to be gliding and floating on on not doing those kinds of maneuvers to manipulate camera? Hide subject distance and angle and also combining explosive long to with rhythmic. macaw tastes in very effective. As in all of this you know you see marks of all of this as early as Lebed ally and especially lesson you. In order to Italy was there was nice and in the European films but actually as they move towards the later thirties. There were pressures for for him on directors in general to adopt the final typical Hollywood continuity and so who gets all out in mind so relatively conventional in terms of editing and and so when he came to Hollywood and he saw wells and he saw pressure and drooling living Edmund Grueling. We saw them doing long. Fluid takes he wants back into that game and so he He he did on the learn with a group crew less. Khan the Khan who who had come up with John Stall in the universal in the thirties had cable premiere brand operator with a number to crime. broad famous Broadway Electric Crane and from nineteen twenty nine being the first number one crime. So you had a university student. Not that was into camera movement or sleep early on they pioneering all of this woman and he had Arbiter wooden who who Who did who build a grain of naturally enough call the wooden grain and It was perfect Eric from ax. MISLAID so the knock call the gym on you had new could move the the crane self on tracks or smooth floor and then in you you could spend the arm around three sixty up a non every which way you look at the the letter from another woman in the opera opera. It's actually shot wouldn't grind. That is full extent getting up to the balcony level so had that much range. They budgeted did that for four days when he in for letter from For exile he never let go so he was worried. That was was one of his major camera. Basics basis on that film and then continuing on into a lot of on saw was terrific and look at the situation that caught in that respect was also for learning using camera movements very effectively was was very very good experience for him. His wife said the the one point interruption to his autobiography is almost getting dangerous from him. All this knowledge that got to be a little less prominent prominent that the making of the records moment but nevertheless I'm getting ahead of talking about Casting selecting room he had a crew of on the ice. I recently found out. I know that when I wrote my book the had the recently done knock on any door. The First Santana production with Nicholas Ray and mostly most of the shooting lighting grew had been on knock on the door and then in had did the reckless moment the move on the next year to do the family. Of course there are some wonderful shots. What's in the film? But it's not really the kind of camera movement styled on the Max So she subsidies lid similar Wayne is Raymond good director into a little bit about the crew. I'm curious what was his relationship like with James Mason. James Mason became a friend of of his This pathetic Right from the start was never concerned with getting close ups. This is much more in service off the found wanting to be a star on an all them vacations of that he was supportive with in the making of of the of caught in that one case mentioned coverage to take advantage of to heighten Mason's star attraction fraction by going in foreclosure Lena wasn't necessary nor still until the story effectively and he was on Maqassad and the what he said when we talked about that. really applies to a lot of situations in the making. The reckless moment is the Max was very persuasive. Very calm kind of way. The knew how to talk to people on the give a little under negotiate and to be very persuasive in his point of view. Not In Earl dully the assistant director on the reckless moments Maqsud Sir. Great What he wanted and he's he's stuck to his guns they wouldn't give her usually so he had the quality in Mason said it was a great lesson for him to learn because in his years in England he would just get can get all upset and stomp powered and they show ought of a miracle sacred role model for the tone down? The more was no along with people rather than put on scene. How did the reckless moment coming to be? How was it discovered I the the the story and then they said okay? Let's let's when show bought. It bought the the novel Blank Wall by Elizabeth Sanctuary the holding the nineteen forty seven. The NAL deals with wartime situation On the East Coast and so they had to do is change the location to the West Coast One to switch the action action factors lead to a post war era and all the things that came with the The postal era returning MHM soldiers hours as a whole a whole different game. The whole impacted had on women you know and they're participating in the Labor Pool and during World War Two and all of a sudden. Now that's no longer the case in the school the Quebec to the kitchen so so all of these factors impacted and so he had a series of writers That he considered some of them low budget writers from Columbia Eleo landless being one of them but also alone dirigible dean who is a high level but the person he really wanted was Sally Benson. Who famously been in Saint Louis Dealing with family was her she know various aspects of family life and family family interactions and as we see in that film on she also did a series of stories along those lines for the New York her her liver call junior miss ultimately the writers because she couldn't do it that she recommended were too young young writers working for CBS radio. Doing Junion us. She thought they could bring the same kind of touch on God. Familiarity with the Family New Year and the way families interact and move in a confined space and all that but they could bring that to to the waitress interest movement. And so would max ended up with for the first time in Hollywood anyway was too young writers owners to young writers who had the experience a knowledge of functioning in American families and writing About it but also who had never written a screenplay before he could be their mentor in that respect than also so really draw on the knowledge to enrich the screenplay earned Robert Soda Bergen. Hank Carson Henry Ars and the two of them I guess. I must've been in the early twentieth. Called the boys they Soderberg said it was like a love affair. The first six weeks of working carried by. He took them home for those house for dinner. We went to see his movies. And let's just got along famously. Bruce good producing good. I strive and then to turn out that Wayne sure sure was not happy with neither was BBQ Hayne who was Harry Cohn's perceptible and the Texture Church conference script conference at the end of the when they reached the first converse complete draft by by the trio Rayo Holes Soderbergh Garson and the Wayne sugar agreed with a Hain. The something had to be done this was not as good in some respects especially structurally as the scripted they liked which was mel Dinelli's script. It was a writer and and so they decided with the participation. Of the boy's mind you. It was not the typical typical nasty situation where they kick off one. Writing team replaces another. The boys got to be there to the very end and so they made contributions to to. This amalgamation adaptation drawing on both sources. The Mel Dinelli script. And they're on. They're on news touching. GO WITH THE WE'RE GONNA hopefuls. Would've liked to go with the scope that he had done with them. What they wanted Wayne sure sure one of was the higher though too young screenwriters to bring in certain touches? Subtlety he was a big Wayne. Show is a big fan the the new British realism especially Rufin Connor David Lean Carol. Reed also the phone so so that was one of the things that inform. Rangers thought an also the fact that winter plans already into become part of the runaway to Europe Movement runaway production One of the ways that owns homes adapted to all of the consequences in nineteen forty eight to the paramount decrees than to the encroachment end of television vicious. I really starting in nineteen forty eight to become a big factor and and so he he already had connections wins in Europe to go there as his next endeavor After the reckless moment more about that later he wanted on a to introduce of Just call was subtle Realistic touches the the young writers. I could bring to it into the film. That's what he got them in the first place. When Vincent Undo that officials had that European background and might possibly fit into his plans to go to Europe could be a long term relationship nod just like a The what it appears to be the very beginning sort of a quick dodge Ripley's jaw renoir. Who Harry Colin Price Clouds of Colorado? The competition said he wants too much money. I'M NOT GONNA go above forty thousand and even give Max Forty because he got he got a raise over what he got for Caught shows you how everybody the executives all knew how much somebody not made on a certain film there was share of knowledge of Max never caught up in that game and they all took advantage of it even even his benefactor fairbanks you know. He's perfectly happy to have a direct this epic Salome. A high bud sheds as long shooting schedules film that a rice was laughable. Compared to somebody like Howard Hawks on there was not fair but you know he had no he really had no choice. The the writers started right at the SUIC- Z.. And start date was January seventeenth nineteen forty nine started writing immediately as it happened named CBS was almost across the street from Columbia sunset and Lonzo of late work. They did there to three hours. A studio on the need him nearly afternoon and work with them a few ars and and then they made they made some changes he made some Internet introduced some almonds and then they went home and And his secretary will name Ruth. Martin was much more than a secretary is is They they even got a trailer on the stage. That's important to us shoe as she entertained them and Anxious was willing to put in the hours. Ersan hard work to to make to make it go. And so whatever. Whatever he had changed in the afternoon Initi- would have a type for the typing pool and the next day? That'd be a clean copy of this to date every day. So arm all of this as I said until run along Murray Wall with the same with the writing team until the reintroduction new of Mel Danila after the script conference then produced another another source is shooting script by March first and I was supposed to be the starting date but they had to was postponed by several days after that so that was not the date how about the female characters characters because they are so crucial to the story I think Mobile already said Francis. Williams was worrisome. Pathetic towards awesome With him and What she said one thing on the sort of fits that question that Over the thirteen day periods of working On the Harper House set were with everything order in the sequence in script sequence not necessarily continues news time in the series that the the senior Pearson in this and so having they kind of a a group of people and the set of technicians and said of technology technology remain the same over. Two weeks made very much foreign ossoble's spirit though they we all really liked and on an Francis William said it wasn't just the the cast either those everybody is was technicians. Who are part of this Ossoble as well and they also regretted when when that period some really interesting force are are in the Rashad in that period gathers that amazing racing shot of Mason when he's turning off the lights turning on the lights and closing doors and kind of setting this whole stage for them long? Take Jacob just gorgeous is that shot is interesting and many ways one. It's it's an outstanding example fool of an expressive long tank and Robert Soderberg said Max would bluff screenplay and Briggs Shot by shot and they were fifteen shots for that scene would end ended it all as one long tank. When you look at it frame by frame you realize the mostly shots sorta in the screenplay where worked into the continuity media flow of the camera and so Intensity of of the scene with solution discovering what he's after and trying to respond in for the police and so on it's beautiful all the movements as wonderful taste. It's almost like a fencing match the way she tries to parry with his South threats not he moves over to the light than he turns on and we cut we were particularly fascinated fascinated by the comic relief almost when the sun comes in and it makes things worse than it makes them lighter at the same time. If that makes any sense I guess yeah. Yeah Yeah. Yeah I think you're right. It's like a dark humor to it is going on starting to play his UKULELE. So what happened happened to David. Bear never heard of him about him again. I did here in California. The last oh holes conference the The boy in letter from the non woman eighties living in Arizona. I have a a text. An interview was lower. Louis A who was who worked with him in Europe. It was married to Eugene in the famous set designer In talking about his relation exactly about the relationship with women in in how women artists and the and how it stayed the same in all the interactions she could would see observe on vendetta with Faith Demar with Maria Montas gentle and respectful attentive empathetic but with no hint of a any kind of sexual connection sexual relationship. She basically said he was wonderful. Where with women I with actresses you can see that in in all of the relationships Gibson in even Joan fontane she was who was of all the ones that I talked to? You heard about who was had a negative reaction. In some ways accused him of being like Fritz Fritz Lang ahead accrual strike. Would everyone else rejects. He really is is well known for being for being a good woman. Store actor will come a little bit more about the production. He talked about the thirteen days where they were shooting. All of these interiors carriers and I'm curious about the rest of it. The ability to do that goes back to pre production where it was a situation quite contrary contrary to what he considered ideal. I so let her where he writes to John Houseman. A how what. What a wonderful time? They could have making seeking independent films together and all screenplay ready four weeks before the start of reduction was one of those facing and the it was this was not a good time independence because the The insecurities that the The paramount decrees introduced into the industry also affected the independence`so independence were having a hard time getting financing They couldn't get financing for. You tried all the other studios. He could not get financing for the phone and ultimately he he got Harry Cohn's okay budget and shooting schedule. We'll limits and the dictum but Eddie Seattle. Who was the second assistant director on the found? On on later become a famous production manager production executive is ran important man by he was just the second assistant and he said and when Columbia brought in a mind dependence and put up a Lotta money says we pay we tell we do our way that was that was the motto. Okay so now go going back to carry dial Osos the boys choice for writing the screenplay cary Odell simultaneously was working on the sets and so so instead of the usual writing the screenplay and then breaking it down in terms of the settings required and then Tom Building that was a direct connection with Correo. Del whom holes got along with really well and the writing team and he bill old the set to go with the scenes that there were writing so ideal situation where the sets reflect. Reflect Watson this script so you don't have to make changes later everything's hand. UNGLOVED coincidentally Lebron. Oh fools hit that that period of working in the stunning he had fallen in the house setting he had fallen behind a little little. Bit New there's another in. We should talk about where that first comes into bland also talk about the power structure in rely in regards. Regards to that scene which is sane. Were Lucia comes back into the house. Some having OPPO BOTAS with flashlight looking for trying to figure out what one what happened in the house seen pocos was behind schedule a bit. He wanted very hard to catch up because he had learned when making direct the caught. This is something else will talk to John. House told John Houseman in a letter he said I learned in the making off. Cod that you can. If you work quickly an efficient then you can get away with things that otherwise people are gonNA object to until one one of his goals were was leitmotifs in this in making the right. This moment was to always stay ahead of schedule and always make things go on the said being ahead on the schedule Hang Garson. You told me that he would deliberately Louis work faster than normal again ahead on the schedule so then when he dropped the bomb about something especially wanted to do he would have a better chance. He looked at his at the shooting script. Any figured out ways that he could make the action flow continuously instead of shooting seeing in the living room than the scene in the hallway and the scene in in the kitchen. He made it all. He made small changes to the screenplay through the continuity in the camera I am which is following on she and be go back to the kitchen and sort of having a senior living the living at the beginning of Than the one in the hallway and then one in the kitchen it all the move on through exit torts Gotcha and then enter into into the little Wa- walled off ours screened windowed off of a part of the kitchen where they have this talk When the father comes in with the with the Christmas tree he hasn't he hasn't commented in such a way that that enough to change the tracks so the shave set up time and incident after the incident with the things that he could do by thinking it through us? Another thing that Blancan Horn the the location manager told me that the maximum always knew what he was gonNA do. All this came in prepared. The new of the shots were it all happened not were quickly unnaturally and so he did with us and are at the end of the thirteenth entertaining as everybody was happy. They were several pages ahead of the of of of the pace of the of the schedule schedule. Artistically in an as an experience for the actors it was just wonderful. So how did he fall behind when you're talking about her coming in with the flashlight from about house early on after they came back from location basically The shooting schedule started out with The harbor the Matalon Hotel I the entrance for entrance into than than Shepherd strikes comes down the staircase their case than they shot Donnelley's the Joined by crossing through the whole place. And then the SHEPPERD strudwick. Joan Bennett. Scene were confronts him on the relationship. They started trying issued a Lucius entrance coming back from. La Was Bernie cuffy's first experience with a very very long take. It never faced anything like that before and he said he wanted to go all the way through she gets out of the car. An income son passes. This is David with his Car then comes on the hallway and then goes inside so the side kitchen door and then into the kitchen brief interaction with her father in law on through into a hallway up the staircase past the Francis. Volumes comes up to the second floor of the continue shot. I say very difficult to do that. Ultimately what they did is in the beginning for getting out of moving down the garden path. They separated that even though I guess they might have shot it in the studio you the separated at at that point in Sierra enter the kitchen and go through the kitchen brief interaction with Henry. O.`Neil cuts on her movement through the kitchen door. They did that cutting on the kitchen. Door thing because Osos could say that coming back after they came back from location and starting starting the whole thing over again would be difficult proposition and so he just decided to given a little. Sea Seo often bid to save the day to be happy insolvent and half the people you had to work with the happy eighty show. Shall we go back to the to the scene where a Lucia was less. You probably recall beautifully. Staged seen of her walking through an incoming in and ending up across from from Lucia faces towards be an always see is from beyond the side side of her face and offals left like what happened subsequently. WHO's at a gentleman named and William Bloom? Bill Bloom who was a lower echelon associate of bb Kahin BB. CAIN was was a vice-president executive vice-president directly working with her cone. BB rarely showed up on the said. Buddy watch the rushes religiously and came up with tons of criticisms many of them about the Very similar I guess you might say the Something how something would work in terms of the story. So for example he criticized Joan Bhanot Joan Bennett worrying high heels dumping the body in the marsh and said anybody any cop would immediately see this. This was a woman who had the body in the square students about those kinds of things. They were the good suggestions but he also Asked for things that would interfere with a a quality that Oh foes was an the continuity of atmosphere though foes was after on the flow of things in the the in the atmosphere. This House and Max did not want her provide coverage for by there was there were correspondence between bloom and Kane and other people Colomiers said there was on five days in two and a half after the coming back That was his boss starting to build the wrong. This student's studio by these artsy European director going out of control and And so somebody else said the there were things going on that. I did not no bod- but I could tell from the whole by that was that people were not happy about wireless going on this to show you the flow of the from the top from Kahin to bloom to Wayne Cher. And the interaction with Rienscher and Wayne's son the nodes roads several days later saying are you not going to provide coverage for this and we secretary Asked him should I return Answer this motion mansion said no then so mason said that winter is kind of offer between him Awful in the front maybe he or bided lighted she of total votes in offals. Did Not hear about all these idiotic compliance those good. Interestingly that goes back also another the buffer situation were Opel's kept his relationship with the boys to himself He did not let them get exposed except Baltimore. Louis that the story conference He protected them. Shielded did them from not only the studio folks but also for Wayne Shaw. No it was just the three working together. Oh Foods had to that point really watches. Stop and on. Try to speed up. Production and reduce the chance search for interference or that. But they were. Why don't you? It was quite adamant that he was not gonNa take that from mm-hmm from Canaan loan ultimately was the reckless moment a success unfortunately not it was a success On if you read British Carlson filmon reviews of the film was a success. In England. Amazing was a big star there air because the social criticism of American society. That's implicit in the film Didn't apply to them so so. It was quite a banter of In Hollywood being waitresses surrogate on in post production this correspondent's but what he was doing in that in that function and an ranger and they were rigging giving each other then worked timewise now. I guess Nah later and later correspondence when when when the film was released in the US the same time as it was Willie's than in Britain and there there was a good news that the the the overdose God abroad England then the bad news Wayne sure God in in Hollywood and there was the inner suspicious vicious occasion when the film premiered still were Sandra Nab not premiered brady with the Sonatrach and image still separate in someplace like Redondo and The foam broke and they were the usual Supply of Weiss cracks and the audience know quad recovered after that and it was basically a disaster. I think it was mason. WHO said that? They all took some time off their lives. That experience Josh and this is in American released. Wayne Scher was hurting badly from the Joan of ARC released earlier in forty eight. Fortunately Hill the story better in Europe and the Catholic countries in Europe Particular Joan Ark and there was a bitter pill for him to take this. Next sound was also not gonNa make any money so yeah no ties in with the situation with Garbo later on when he couldn't get his financing together the make the Duchess of Lausanne so is the lack of success of of the reckless moment is that why offals went back to Europe. No human back to Europe because he was rangers partner not as soon soon as he for a period after the end of production and His coming off contract attract the contract for the foam making fell might opt to assert nine and for a while that he was involved. Working with Was June lake on editing. Got Along famously. With June hobbling and his work with IRMGARD IRMGARD Bond Cube Analogy Vincent who had been very successful just very recently you Johnny Belinda. And so were the top of their game feeling confident and fools. It's very hard time with her. Not to launch. He called him silence. Clay I know he didn't. He didn't put up with armed guards scuff basically. It's not a happy relationship So he went with preparing for that was to be the first European runaway production and Joan Bennett was to have a starring role all that and then the next film the next to be in line for the European period was to the Greta. Garbo's back film with the Duchess of law. Jack and the Greta Garbo was getting a little uptight title above the length of time. It took between her agreeing to make this film and the time it was it was happening. Associate Associate pressed now to my insisted on The Duchess of lachine coming I but I met this long duration operation of their finished the balance the SARS and then the switch show were directly to work with how another straight win Win Royal Goldman on the Duchess of Lhasa on that went up to where he left for Europe to go to briefly to France. And then to to Rome for the making of the Garbo phone though was no nothing about not finding work and being unhappy in Hollywood then a no he left on the boat though see wasn't thinking about not never we're coming back. He was really in his abilities. He was a terrific screenwriter Which is why got it so much trouble with these people who thought that knew more than he did? Howard Koch was a good mentor to hand? And so the he the expected to make this phone in In Italy of comeback. Or maybe you make the the the next one person then comeback. He kept his house then in Hollywood and his cousin took care Arab for him onto the spring or summer of nineteen fifty One after the success of Law Laurent which he made on release a leave of absence from the contract with Wayne Scher. Okay God worked it out so so he could make that film Mitch by the way he had already started Setting up during that fallow period between the end of caught in the beginning of the righteous moment yet all kinds of things in the pot the NFL not coming back Not Not doing any more. Hollywood films was not part of his plan. He kept on trying to get a Hollywood assignment and it looked very promising using a number of times but ultimately just happen. How did he eventually died? Broken hard some people say he. You had the same kind of troubles With the making of Lola Montesquieu that he had in Hollywood elitist money was hired because of his Hollywood experience ironic. The film was not at all well. Received the premier the mirror and powers in December just before the holiday in nineteen fifty five Audiences walked out booed and it was too far ahead of his time. Really Watch and people didn't get it and they actually in the later. Run after the the Premier Ron. They put a sign on this on the screen. Saying this is not the kind of found the way you usually are are used to use to. The audiences were warned that this was gonna be something complaining completed the front because of that failure here. He had trouble getting assignments He did a film called Mo Parnassus. It started setting it up as screenplay redden is going to go into. Production and Jacques ultimately directed DADS that screenplay glad in his way Max some radio during production right after the production to go on secure near Baden bond to recover from the stress and then he got a play the marriage of Figaro Arro- Hamburg German show Spiel House the name of us and directed Lionel's film on using several of the collaborators see had in all the French phones The the the the costume designer for example he brought the film up to the performance before the premiere you there for that and then they broke core of course was holidays and he. We went to his wife's home in Dortmund Germany. While he was gone he fell ill and never came back he. It was an hospital in Hamburg for three-month Unseen The Times that he was gonNA recover automated here than the second attack died more stormy summer of nineteen fifty seven. It's twenty nineteen and we're talking about a movie that was released in nineteen forty nine. Why do you think that we're still talking about the reckless moment? Because in so many ways it hits issues that were so confronting today I thank. The film was lost no when I was instrumental in the a two thousand and two two thousand and early. Two thousand three ovals centennial in Virginia I was one of my jobs was to define the phone and it was being distributed by a company that tipping typically distributed television programming. And they didn't know they had it had to go throw the brass until they finally found it and we were able to get it in Oakland Columbia had to Sony Columbia had to give permission As well and we were able to screen it and somebody Ed the Berkeley I think I remember correctly also tried to find it and so this offered that the film was being peaked that they had something twice in a short period of time and so the Seventy Fifth Columbus seventy fifth anniversary anniversary came in there. Some were on the they showed it as part of that. And so it's SORTA brought it back into the spotlight and everybody loves it. It's just amazing. It's passed a letter from London. Woman in popularity learning even so nice to see really nice really good blu-ray on it. Yeah let's thank you so much the free time. This is her since big became a conversation. Yeah yeah sorry. Ah We're back and we're talking about the reckless moment. Like I always say any good movie deserves a good remake. You make and this movie was remade. The reckless moment was remade as the deep end and it was interesting that this was more of a remake of the movie rather than a new adaptation of the blank wall of the story Because a lot of those things are right there from they original movie I mean the ending. The ending is very different in the original book. There's none of this while their sacrifice but there's not the car wreck there's not that kind of thing but it's there in this version. It's pretty different. It's been updated to the two thousand dishes. Certain certain kinds of stuff and I had to say the biggest difference is that we've got a gender swap in the peak character so now rather that being salacious salacious letters. It is a rather Salaciousness videotape of Ted Derby and Tilda Swinton as as Mrs Harper of her son being with Ted so that I can see being more of a scandal than these letters so I was kind kind of actually glad to see that yeah. I think it's interesting the way that that those sort of updates are made and I think it makes makes it feel more plausible because it's hard to imagine somebody getting all bent out of shape about letters in what is it two thousand one early two thousands. Yeah I really couldn't see people giving shit but when it comes to this is he seventeen in this. I mean that throws a whole different thing. And now it's it's Josh Lucas Having Sex with an underage boy but regardless it still was probably you know I. I can't say that it's not scandalous anymore. It's still going to be scandalous. Not necessarily that. It is gay sex but that it's sex with a minor you could have translated needed it so that it would be maybe about emails instead of letters but having it be actual videotape. I think gives gives her such a more intense motivation. But I think it also makes it more of an external thing and less Abou- how her driving herself crazy and feeling guilty and having it be this sort of anxiety spiral in her head. What are they going to do with the tape? I mean they can't show it they can't show it on the news. I guess they could sell it to some like sleazy porn dealer. Be and I agree. It's it's much more or updated in You know more imminent sort of threat of scandal. In a way I feel like it kind of takes away from the power. Just the exile at being the main motivation. I appreciated that. This takes place in Reno and Lake Tahoe. So it's kind of a nice nod ought to the reckless moment with the whole idea. Be going away to Lake Tahoe. I had no idea where one city was in relation to another so thank thank you Google maps for that and this time. Tom Is in the Navy I guess because he's on the USS Constellation and they can't get a hold of them a lot of time so again. We're going back to that war idea which was interesting that we can return to that in two thousand one. Since we've we've been fighting the forever war since you know whenever George Bush took office in two thousand one. Wasn't it still actually stuck on this. This thing you brought up Mike since it is underage the Sun is underage. Wouldn't the video be more damaging to the Ted Darby character. He doesn't want that to get out. That doesn't make sense. Why Am curious if he is underage or not because I know he? The son is getting ready to go to college so so he could be eighteen. But I don't know because I was eighteen when I got to college because there's this whole thing now it's not art. School like be was going to. It was music school and some of these things some of the symbolism in this movie. It's a little thick. I mean the whole idea of all right. It's a lack thick. I mean when she goes to visit Darby at the the deep end club. And it's all all this nautical theme and then when she arrives home that hearst her younger son is filling up an aquarium right there on the front porch. I'm just like wow. We're going to get a lot of water symbolism here in this movie and a lot of things to do with this and of course the idea of her sinking the body and like living right there on the lake and stuff. I mean it's really really put on thick here. This is done by the same. Two guys who did suture suture. which I really liked him? We talked a little bit about when we're talking about. I think it was maybe on a second episode but This one doesn't seem as artfully done. Let's say feels a little too self conscious a lot of times. I think if I hadn't seen either either the reckless mode or read the book. I might have enjoyed this movie more. It's really hard to compare yourself to the reckless moment. If if you're remaking it and there's just lots of things that don't quite stand up until this witness is is an amazing amazing actor But her character doesn't seem as well conceived You know as you were saying. Sam like the anxieties are there I didn't sense the same sort of chemistry between her and the Donnelly character. It is really tough to get behind that actor. Gordon Fish Nick Man. He's so wooden he will any always plays a scumbag. So it's not like I really WanNa you know. Have anything having to do with them. They seem to have gotten rid of some of the class issues in this movie. It's just like they seem to have a lot of money and she doesn't seem to be having those sorts of struggles about you know. Getting by the Joan Bennett did yeah. I'm sorry I just don't like this movie. It has this sort of. It's one of those things where I probably would have liked it if I hadn't seen the reckless moment I and if it didn't try so hard like if this had been less sort of beating you over the head head with how artful at symbolism is and if it had embraced more sort of being a melodrama thriller and had sort of a lifetime lifetime vibe or a made for TV movie vibe. I probably would be all in but it's it's almost like it takes itself too seriously And then just comes up short yet the symbolism. It's IT'S A lot. I mean her having the red hair and then having the red coat and of course. I'm thinking the red coat from don't look now and then there are times where she very. Purposefully does not have the red coat on or where she leaves it. Someplace place in the NAP becomes something. It's a little much. They really yeah they should have. I mean that Josh Lucas's license plate it is six feet below. What the hell man? Yeah I just I feel like they did spend a lot of time trying to translate certain elements like we said with the videotape and the general reversal. It was all very thoughtful. But it's like they spent too much time focusing on the wrong things things like that's not ultimately. What makes the movie? What makes the reckless moment? So incredible it's about her feeling like a prisoner prisoner and being a prisoner in this domestic space. And that's totally gone. Yeah I don't get that trap feeling and now we just pretend that doesn't exist like I do with most remakes. So if you're listening to this at home we weren't just talking just now now. There was a figment of your imagination stepping so paranoid all right. Let's go ahead and take another break in play preview for next week show take this is a world of hidden. Mike's in two ways era's a world where nothing is private. His ingredient do this. They renew we saw Gerry. Cole is an expert best series. Something about Harry. Call the best von none. I'll drink to that best. What the best bugger? On the was ghost he can bug anybody anytime anywhere. Nobody knows how you did it. Though was a hell of a scandal to see the man with a hearing aid like Charles is the following people to him just voices us. Three people murdered that so he doesn't know them and they know Kim be. I mean just turned in the tapes. It must be absent. I've been involved in some work. I think it'll be used. It's standard response. I am not responsible. Feeling anything supposed to do. Be Careful Harry. You're just supposed to listen. Not Look it's not feel not care How'd you get this phone turf Chris Secrets hearing secret secrets involved in this. Mr Mistakes are dangerous. Amman talk show him tell us gene. Hackman is Harry call in the conversation station. There is nothing private about the conversation. My name is Harry Call. Can you hear me. That's where it will be back next week. Speaking of Paranoia. We'll be back next week with a look at Francis Ford Coppola conversation until then I want this week's Co the house Callanan Sam so what is happening in your world sir. Not A ton. I'm going back to school and hoping to get better job in the future but if I could I would love to plug Some work that much friends have done. Our mutual friend Lou boxer in Matthew Sorrento have just relaunched the new walk-on Zine retreat from oblivion dot com with a previously unavailable. Charles Willard short story called sugar water. So big CONGRATS undrafted Forgetting this back off the ground. Yeah it was on the Charles Wilford facebook page debating people whether that was really a Charles Wolford story unlike. Es Yes yes. It is nothing like arguing with people on the Internet. Oh my God yes. It's from Betsy. Okay so I think she's probably the final word probably knows something a thing or two. Yeah Cullen where is my Ammann's not a train song. I was waiting for that cover. I was talking to Andy the other day. We're GONNA do it sometimes. It just takes a little while we never had that recording session. We thought You're going to see him. What is happening in Philadelphia Ma'am? I am always working on all things and usually at a point where the current thing that I'm working on hasn't been announced so I can't talk about it so sometimes it's hard for me to do like instant recall of what I should be plugging but off the top of my head for Keno. I just did a commentary for the Melville Film on Flick. That will be out soon soon. It's so good. I wrote a book on Fritz. Lang's M that has just come out now and if for some reason you have not purchased or seen the reckless moment the indicator release. I did an essay for I think that came out. I don't know I have no concept of time anymore. It came out a little while ago L.. So that's I think all that I can remember right now. I am so glad that you're in book is out a is such a fantastic S. decreed. Thank you you're the first person who read it. So thank you for reading. Wow Yeah the other editor. I feel very fortunate about that. Well thank you again. Gave for being on the show. Thanks to everybody for listening. Please head on over to the website projection booth podcast cast dot com and find out more about today's episode. You also find a link to patron where he can make a donation to the show every donation we get helps the projection booth take over the world. The stand off sometime dog they six when you bye the yeah take if you enjoy this show in what more people know about it head on over to I I tunes leave a comment and rated five stars. Make sure you like insurance on facebook and don't forget to follow us on twitter just search Christopher media. 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The Morning Briefing: Tuesday, April 28
"Hallo Wind Danny Boyle with the briefing from the Telegraph. It's Tuesday April the twenty eighth and the PM's working on a plan for gradually loosening Britain's lockdown so the next forty eight hours a key. Boris Johnson's arrival back in downing. Street's kickstarted a crucial week in the corona virus crisis. As Chris was telling you last night he returned with a promise to refine the restrictions. His government's already committed to reviewing the lockdown by Thursday next week but all eyes are now on an early a cabinet meeting this those day. That's expected to sign off a blueprints. At least to vary the rules out. Chief political correspondent. Christopher hopes examined the key pressure points. What might an exit strategy involved then? Well ministers have already begun. Circulating plans for life often locked down. We've garden centers could reopen within a foot nights as well as recycling centers from as early as this weekend. That's positive guidance in draft for now L. Chief reporter Robert Mundell rounded up. What else might be in store? Including FOR COMMUTERS AND OFFICE WORKERS. Now question that's divided households experts. And now it's emerged. The government scientific advisers should the public where vice mosques the chairman of sage. That's the group advising ministers has been speaking about it's heated discussions in particular about the evidence around whether the public should cover their faces. A health editor lure Donnelly reports on the areas where this group of key scientists appear to disagree and the eight. Pm. Faquir is every Thursdays now. Positive many people's routines today. There's a minute silence to pay tribute to key. Workers died in the pandemic. Everyone was urged to take part at eleven. Am We also have a gallery of other ways the Public Arena Ring Alcaraz? Right stay puts. If you're listening on WHATSAPP I'll send you those links. Now if you're listening on spotify apple or wherever you get your podcast you'll find them in the show notes as well as links to some non corona virus material including our five star review of the first episode of normal people. And some easy waking you can do in a Mug and the microwave that's it. You're up to date. Chris will have your second briefing of the day this evening.
The Morning Briefing: Wednesday, July 1
"Allies Wind Danny? Boyle, with the briefing from the Telegraph. It's Wednesday July. The first and there were fears raised protests led to more Corona Virus Casey's. FOULLAND's took to the streets, but did they spread more than just their message. Public Health chief fears black lives matter. Protests led to a rise in cases his city. We can reveal officials in Birmingham of called for a national inquiry. They saw an increase in cases ten days after thousands gathered in the city, the government had urged people to stay away from mass protests bill. Gardner has our full exclusive story. Meantime Public Health England's future has been thrown into doubt. After the prime minister suggested parts of the government's response to Corona, virus had been sluggish. Whitehall sources indicated. They believe Boris. Johnson was referring to the agency. is also under pressure over Leicester which is now back in lockdown. Follow the latest in our live blog. Now some good news. International Research suggests up to a third of healthy people without covid. Nineteen symptoms may have developed immunity. It means public immunity could be as much as twice what we thought from antibody tests so close. Does that mean we all to herd immunity in places like London! Health editor Laura Donnelly explains what we know. and. We've been guessing more details about what the return to school looked like. Ministers have drawn up plans to encourage children not to rely on buses, trains and trams when the new Tom begins in September instead, people's will be told to walk or cycle. How Education Editor Camilla? Turner has more on what to expect from guidance out this week. I can also recommend some other articles to including an exclusive tour of the National Gallery, as it prepares to reopen and pull Hollywood's Metropol after man united beat Bryson three-nil. I'll send you those links now. If you're listening on WHATSAPP, you'll find them in the show notes. If you're listening on spotify or wherever get your podcasts. That's it you're up to date Chris will have. You'll second briefing of the day this evening.
The Strange long life of Rosa May
"Welcome to kiss myths and Mystery Syam your host kit chrome today. The strange long life of Rosa may the the ghost town of Bodey California's often referred to as being frozen in time. That's because buildings have been preserved just as they were when the state took over. Over the care of the town there are no plaques in front of buildings no signs directing tourists although the nature of the goes town of Bodey as being frozen in time has been intended for the buildings there is a citizen rather a former citizen who qualifies for being frozen in time that person would be Rosa may also known as Rosa Elizabeth Whiten Rosa May or lick one story. Rosa Rosa May is that she nursed sick miners during an epidemic and succumbed to the onless herself when it came time to bury her good citizens of Bodey warden want her in their cemetery because she was a prostitute yet. There is evidence that she made enough money implying her trait to buy a house in town. Oh but there is equal evidence that she left Bodey and moved to Virginia City Nevada about that same time says there is no record of either an epidemic in Bodey or of a house in her name. Virginia City Seems To win out surfing residents but wait. There's more in eighteen sixty the eight. A woman in Virginia sitting about identified as a prostitute named Rosa May. Oleg was run down by a wagon pulled by a team of Horses Thirty One Mile Southeast abode is Lee vining in eighteen eighty eight a prostitute name rose. Elizabeth White was pushed out a window of a two story building holding. The sheriff's report said that she broke her net twenty years later in nineteen. Oh eight Lee. vining a known prostitute name Rosie Rosa was found shot to death at our living quarters in nineteen eighteen during the epidemic Spanish flu prostitute. Name Rosa may made the rounds of the boarding boarding houses and minors in Bodey and treated them but by nineteen twenty body was down to a population of one hundred ten and the last banker James. CAIN was buying up every parcel of land. He could get his hands on including many mining claims by the nineteen forties. Most of the land. That town mm sat on was still owned by the Kane family except for a few old timers including the son of the town's only butcher John Donnelly. There were only empty. The buildings in one thousand nine hundred fifty four John Donnelly son moved him to Tahoe and his residence there. It was there in Lake Tahoe. That John Donnelly senior would tell stories about these last days as a mining boomtown anyone that would listen among the stories was how when he was a young boy his father became became ill and how a town prostitute Rosa may nursed him day and night totally recovered at one hundred five John. Donnelly senior was placed in a nursing in home on the outskirts of truckee California. It was here that a certified nursing assistant cared for him until he passed away on the death certificate the name aim of the attending. CNA who was in attendance at the time of his passing was Rosa. May the strange long life of Rosa May was produced here at night. Owl Sound Studio Radio and brought to you by the Rogue Valley Metaphysical Library now creek cabin and Al Creek Cabin Dot Com. Check it out. Listen tomorrow to hidden history history and every Monday Wednesday and Friday to kiss myths and mysteries. This is Ken Chrome thanks for listening.