37 Burst results for "Donald Trump"
Fresh update on "donald trump" discussed on The Daily Beans
"Interest but if you pretend like there's a victory in there i mean look at donald trump it's classic trump trump's supposed to be the most successful business guy since since you know god created dirt and he's failed at every state but what does he say. I'm a tremendous business guy no business i know negotiating like nobody else does They lied to build the mythology. The mythology fuels this belief in their followers and then those their followers give the money. That's how this works. So they've got to have a victory so when they lie about their own agreement you know they're gonna lie about the results at the because this is how they do it and they wanna make more money in the that. The sad thing is this. You know it's a and i'm not excusing any of what i'm about to say you'll see griffin and corruption when it comes to highway and in healthcare stuff and education systems in our charter schools and things.
Thousands of Haitian Immigrants Arrive at Del Rio Bridge
"This little town of Del Rio. China even heard it before. There's 11,000. Illegal alien Haitians under the International Bridge. It's called With 10,000 more behind them. And they have a vaccination rate in Haixi in Haiti, as you can imagine of 1%. The Republicans must run against their opponents. By running against Joe Biden. Let them run against Donald Trump. Let us run against Joe Biden. Let's see who the winner is. But Joe Biden is destroying America. You know where he is Tonight? Ladies and gentlemen, he's in Wilmington, Delaware. Probably getting some kind of an infusion. I don't know what he's in Wilmington, Delaware. In his basement. With his tank top in his boxer shorts, Probably Eating tricks. With 2% milk. I can hear him now. Hey, remember, be able to remember their Where's Mommy anyway? That's the president. We have.
Fresh update on "donald trump" discussed on The Charlie Kirk Show
"In the watergate. I don't think it was actually in the watergate hotel was it. I think it was across the street. Wasn't it. It was in an office building anyway and that was considered to be the greatest scandal of american politics woodward and bernstein. Nobody died instead. You have joe biden. That could be argued that he's acting with criminal intent. Saying you know what now you need monoclonal. Antibodies know what a donald trump do. He sent warships to blue states to help people fight. The faucher virus biden withholds life saving treatment from red states. Rhonda santa's god bless him is going straight to the manufacturer for those. That don't know what monoclonal. Antibodies is or what regeneration is it is white cell blood infusion that allows your body to naturally fight the virus when you have it i was at the watergate office building which i think is across from the watergate hotel. Is that right. Sort of haven't been to dc in awhile watergate's complex so they have the watergate hotel and they have the watergate office buildings that right. Okay this is criminal. What joe biden is doing. And florida rhonda. Santa's is trying to save lives of his constituents. Is there a cover up here. Every republican in congress should be talking about monoclonal. Antibodies today every single republican. And all they keep on saying is get vaccinated. Go get vaccinated. Okay people did that. In florida and half of the people getting monoclonal are vaccinated. You just abandoned them biden. Is that what you're doing is the biden regime. Position is go get vaccinated. Then then you're on your own. We all see what's going on here. And meanwhile americans don't like vaccine mandates opole by peac. Did it had is a hard word to say. Quinnipiac has found that. Almost half of americans forty eight percent. Believe that joe biden's vaccine. Mandates have gone too far fifty. One percent of americans disapprove of president biden's plan to mandate the chinese corona virus vaccine for millions of americans. No conversation about monoclonal antibodies. On television there are people right now in florida that have the chinese corona virus that will die within a week if five is not intervene but biden doesn't care about that. Yeah abandon americans in kabul. thirteen marines. Were dead because of him. And he droned a random shopkeeper in rural afghanistan. He has a total disregard for human life. Look the real. Estate market is really hot right now. People are taking advantage of the low interest rates and the economic uncertainty by investing in real essence. Whether you're a first time buyer or just looking to make a change the key to getting the proper you want is being prequalified and having the cash in hand. That's why you need to contact andrew delray and todd avakian at andrew and todd dot com. I know these guys they're christian. They're conservative they're terrific. So maybe you want to buy a home. Will they are with sierra pacific mortgage and my producer andrews working right now and he tells me they are counselors part financial planners and are really helping him. Stop using these woke brokers everybody andrew and todd our mortgage bankers not brokers that means andrew and todd and their team can take care of your loan personally star finish you actually like talking to them just to call them and ask for andrew and todd. So maybe you're a millennial you just got married and you need to do alone. I'm telling you these guys are good. They're not these woke stores. I mean if you use one of the big banks. The money goes the blm andrew and todd. They support the charlie kirk. So if you gotta do.
Biden Campaign Associates Their 225,000 COVID Deaths to President Trump
"I told you. This is a vindictive, stupid, diabolical man. He's the worst. Is the closest thing we've had to a dictator in modern times. There's no question about that. He's been lying about Florida and Texas from day one. And why does he do that? Why does he do that? Cause he lost them both in the last election. And because he's trying to create a narrative and position to Santa's and Abbott. And why else I talked about this at length yesterday. Because more than a quarter of a million Keeper. As the free Beacon reported. Have died as a result of this virus or a variant. During the Biden presidency, and during the Biden campaign, they blame Donald Trump President Trump for every death that occurred. Prior to the time Biden became president. It was a sickening Unconscionable, appalling attack. Supported Expanded regard to Tate. It By the propaganda organizations, aka Big Media. But Biden wants to be able to say, Look, I've used OSHA to mandate vaccines. It's the unvaccinated. It's these Republican governors. Don't look at me. It's not me. It's them. Biden is a failure every damn thing he touches.
Hillary Clinton Fabricated Story That Trump Colluded With Russia
"So they made up this whole story about Trump Tower communicating with this Alpha bank in Russia via Trump Tower Server. They made the whole thing up. How do I know that Because it's right here. Rush Limbaugh paper Flip hat tip the greatest of all time. It says it right here in the indictment that the server in Trump Tower allegedly communicating with Alpha Bank and Russia quote was not a secret communication channel with a Russian bank, but a red herring. It was just a legitimate CRM company. Customer relationship management company engaged in a marketing campaign. So they knew this the whole time, folks. They knew this in August of 2016, which is weird, because again just months later in October, August, Jim, please for the audience. Can we do a time check? October is after August. Correct. Just checking. Okay. Thank you. There are liberals. Listen, have a tough time of this, so Hillary Clinton hires this lawyer. Susman. He's working with a tech executive on framing Donald Trump, according to this indictment for colluding with the Russians using this server, right, And they know in August, which is before Hillary tweets in October that this is a hoax. The whole thing that it's a quote red herring. That it's not real, that is just made up. But that didn't stop hills. There. It is on my phone right there. Screenshot of her October tweet. It's time for Trump to answer serious questions about his ties with Russia. They knew the whole time and like I said, Hillary, lying, Ladies and gentlemen, is not breaking news. This is one of the most disgusting human beings to ever run for office in the history of
Hillary Clinton Lied to Her Lawyers, Who Lied to the FBI, of a Collusion Hoax
"Folks the big deal about this indictment yesterday of this Clinton associated lawyer in the collusion, hoax case, the big deal about it. It's not that they lied. All right, Hillary Clinton lies like you know. How do you know Hillary Clinton lying? Right? You know, the Joker mouth is moving. Hillary Clinton lies about everything. Ellery Clinton would lie about her first and last name if she had. I mean, Hillary Clinton hasn't told the truth about anything of significance. At any point in life. That's not the shocker. Oh, they lied and made up the collusion hoax that Trump was communicating with the Russian bank and a secret server that was all made up that that's not shocking, like I'm sorry. It's not. That's not the surprising part. Hillary lies about everything that's just who Hillary is. She's a loser like she lies about everything. The reason they're in trouble is didn't only lie about it making up Trump's quoting with the Russians on the server, they had a lawyer. A bunch of lawyers passed this information. It appears from his allegations in the indictment had that the person the FBI That that opened up this international investigation about collusion hoax that never had a shred of evidence to it ever now. I've been. I've been reading to you Some of the highlights from the indictment and they are stunning, including that there was a tech executive involved in this scheme to frame Donald Trump. We have a good idea who he is. I mean, really, how big was this conspiracy? The media was involved. I've got highlights of that coming up soon. Do you want to see all the media idiots that got caught propagating this obvious hoax and they got caught willingly, folks. They knew they were lying and making it up the meteor liars. They knew it. Let's not pretend like Oh golly, they just happened to get caught by mistake. Natasha Bertrand Moscow, Rachel Maddow. Wolf Blitzer, Um Jake Sullivan, the current national security advisor. They all got their all recorded digitally recorded forever propagating the Alfa Bank Cox that this Russian bank was the secret back channel for Trump and Putin.
Michael Sussmann Met With Clinton Campaign Officials Two Days Before FBI Opened Investigation on Trump
"But folks make no mistake. Michael Sussman was not a low level player here. Michael Sussman was a mid to high level lawyer with deep connections in the DNC to Marc Elias to Jake Sullivan, who is the current national security advisor for Joe Biden used to work with the Clinton campaign. Oh, yeah. And with deep ties to Hillary Clinton herself. It's not a small level player. Yeah, I'd like to see Comey prosecuted. I'd like to see uh, the rest of the liars prosecuted as well. But don't brush this off either. Let's go through some of the take aways the indictment and I have to ask the question again. When does when does this guy flip Sussman and start giving up information on what the Clinton campaign knew? And what Hillary knew ourselves? Because when he does this is going to get grab your partner. Grab your popcorn, popcorn eating guy Giffey on social media. You know the Michael Jackson one they have from the thriller video. They see that you see that if you're on social media No, I'm talking about Let's go to take away number one from this indictment because it's these are some gemstones in here number one from the indictment from yesterday, for example, it says on or about July 29 2016. Sussman, the lawyer and another campaign lawyer from the Clinton campaign, met with personnel from the U. S investigative firm and their office. We're assuming that's fusion GPS. Sussman build this time to the Clinton campaign for this. Why is this interesting? And just said Sussman meant subsequent met on July 29th. With fusion, GPS and Clinton campaign lawyers July 29 2016. Why is that interesting? What about that date is interesting. Oh, yes. That's just two days before the FBI opens up the investigation at the Donald Trump called Crossfire Hurricane, which is open July 31st 2016. Just the just the big quickie dig,
If Michael Sussmann Is Guilty, so Is Hillary Clinton
"So remember when Hillary Clinton tweeted out when October 31st of 2016 it's time for Donald Trump to answer serious questions about his ties to Russia. For things you need to know about his secret server communicating with the Russian Alfa Bank. She said. Yes, Donald Trump has a secret server. He didn't It was set up to communicate privately with Putin tied bank. It wasn't When a reporter asked about it, they shut it down. They didn't One week later, they created a new server with a different name for the same purpose. They didn't Yeah. Remember when she tweeted that out? It was all alive. She knew what the whole time and now her lawyer got busted. Busted yesterday Indicted, indicted? Yep. So the question now becomes what it hills know. And when did Hillary no at the most corrupt human being to ever run for president, the most corrupt human being ever become President, of course, was Joe Biden, who is the most corrupt person ever to sit in the White House and the dumbest as well. I might add, but Hillary by far the most corrupt human being to ever run for the presidency, Hillary Clinton. Now that one of the lawyers involved with her campaign has been indicted yesterday in the collusion hoax. The question now becomes. When did Hillary know what she knew? She tweeted it out. If that isn't a damning piece of information, I don't know what is now. Let me just get something out of the box right away here because it's important. You know, we've had a lot of head fakes by the Justice Department. Okay with this, and I have very little faith that anyone of significance will go down in this case. This collusion hoax case. I don't you know, I'm sorry. I don't mean to sound pessimistic. I'm a realist. Though We've been let down repeatedly. It's clear as day. Hillary Clinton is guilty here. It's clear as day There's no debating it anymore. Hillary Clinton was involved in hijacking the Justice Department to get in the spy on
We Must Own Our Complicity in Afghanistan
"The united states shame right over its precipitous sprint out of afghanistan shadow this country's conscience for generation every horror story and they will keep coming is partly the result of our decision to bug out the death and destruction that occur in previously secure parts of that country will be on the bipartisan decision to exit the fiasco of president biden ordered quick march out of the country with its arbitrary deadline and false proclamations of the heroic airline effort. Airlift effort will garner the most shame but barack obama and donald trump all wanted the same thing they wanted out to all three presidents lacked. What abraham lincoln possessed and george w bush often display the strenght to shoulder. The suffering of war brought home in dead and wounded. Young soldiers sailors airmen and marines the country. Tired of it too. We do not have the ability to fight a long war. Even with minimal casualties be because for us. There is no such thing as a minimal casualty. We can take station troops on board. We peacekeeping missions in kosovo but we cannot endlessly endure the loss of american life to enemy combatants so we left but our greatest centers to have left without first overseeing an exodus of those who were desperate to run from baruch theocracy. We did a portion of the saving at the last minute and those tens of thousands who did escape will be forever grateful for the eleven marines. One navy cormon and one army soldier who gave their lives at those refugees might live but for twenty years. We pretend it all of us at some sort of middle ground might emerge between the darkest midnight and the dawn of democracy. Turns out there wasn't such a middle ground and yet we owed an exit to those who relied on falso.
Dozens of Afghan Women Rescued From Kabul
"I want to begin your weekend. Perhaps with a story of heroism before going to the reality of our shame. The story of heroism comes from the great. Britain's telegraph newspaper. I read in the morning is the financial times the second at the telegraph. Then the times of israel. Then i get to the american papers. They only started earlier right so they're hours ahead of us for the news cycles. A little bit more developed this story. I got yesterday afternoon from a friend. Sent this to me. So i cannot claim credit for having spotted it. It showed up last night. I put it online. It went everywhere. And i've reposted it because it just makes you realize heroes. We have lots of heroes in the united states especially in the military who and and the police force and the firefighters. We celebrate them on september eleventh. Then we forget them too. Often we celebrate them on memorial weekend and on veterans day. And then forget them. But i'll tell ya every day in the world they're heroes. The headline of this doesn't of afghan women rescued from kabul in the first ever the first ever israeli emirati aid mission. Remember a year ago. Donald trump presided over the abraham accords. That the united arab emirates and israel signed bringing a warm peace in the middle east followed soon by bahrain and other countries. The story reaches really aid. Workers and the united arab emirates have completed a daring rescue mission that saw dozens of sportswomen female rights activists and a singer at risk of taliban reprisal spirited to safety inaba the nail biting evacuation use local contacts together forty-one afghans from various locations in kabul. And then bust them through taliban checkpoints and over the northern border into tajekistan before flying to the united arab emirates the israeli emirati mission which happened earlier. This month is the first joint humanitarian project between the two middle eastern countries and is part of growing cooperation following the signing of the abraham cords last year which normalized relations
Why the Left-Wing Liberal Media Gets Right-Wing Capitol Rallies So Wrong
"To the capital tomorrow. I want to read a left-wing tabloids description of why the capital is on alert. This isn't the new york. Daily news headline capital on alert. Fence goes up. Cops are ready for right. Wing rally tomorrow now. I want you to hear this. You gotta hear the way. This is described by the new york daily news again. A left-wing tabloid even in post presidency exile. Donald trump is still raising unsightly walls. That's the first line of the article. Even in post presidency trump is still raising unsightly walls tall black chainlink security. Fence was erected outside the us capitol complex yesterday as workers are getting ready for a storm of trump fans who planned to descend on washington nine months. After the january six assault on american democracy fencing went up outside the capitol out after that deadly riot. Well yeah deadly ashley. Lab at the trump supporter was killed. But it was removed over the summer. Now it's back again as the right wingers prepared a role in the nation's capital saturday. They're going to have justice for j six rally now even the article as comical as it is says. Hundreds of trump's supporters are expected at the rally to protest criminal charges filed against about six hundred people suspected of breaking laws in january. So it sounds like it's hundreds like the hundreds who rioted january six and people and the left is obviously a nancy pelosi's terrified security officials are anxious to avoid any repeat of january sixth when hordes of protesters some armed or really. How many was there one gun found on one person overwhelmed cops in the effort to block congress from certifying biden's victory.
House Jan. 6 Committee Seeking Records on Gen. Milley's China Calls
"Hi Mike Rossi you're reporting the house January sixth committee is seeking records on general mark believes China calls the select committee investigating the January sixth insurrection at the US capitol is seeking records related to calls from joint chiefs of staff chairman general mark Milley to his Chinese counterpart the calls were made in the final months of president Donald trump's administration according to a soon to be published book by Washington post journalist Bob Woodward and Robert Costa Millie told general lease Jeng he would warn him in the event of a pending US attack Republican representative Adam Kinzinger of Illinois tells the Associated Press there's a lot that needs to be answered that could really change the story one way or another well he was appointed chairman of the joint chiefs by trump in twenty nineteen and he remains in that post Mike Rossi Washington
Sebastian Reminisces About His Time in the Oval Office With Donald Trump
"Me share a story here. I was in the oval office with president trump. Just the two of us which rarely happens. The oval office has Well it has an entrance way from the out of office and then it has a little narrow door that goes to private eating area and little place for the president. Just sit and read. Didn't be by himself. And then it has the door to the the west wing where guests come through so you rarely in there alone. I was in with the most powerful man in the world and it is a humbling feeling truly as an immigrant to the united states. Somebody who wasn't born here. Who has an accident who always will who only became a citizen. Three years prior to be alone in the oval office is something yukon express. And i was in there on other business if i remember. Well i think it was Iran deal I was one of the two people though building. In addition to the president wanted to kill the iran deal. God bless into finally doing in the face of people like hr mcmaster tillerson mnuchin. All the other fake america first. And i was about to leave still talking about something to do with iran and the president looked at is hand. He got this very serious expression. Yeah he's a very jovial person. It's to great great sense of humor. But suddenly his face froze who's reminded of something on that piece of paper or just something came to mind when he said i really don't want americans to die on the korean peninsula. I did not want to get us into another shooting war in korea. He understood the threat. Remember the hermit kingdom under kim launching ballistic missiles over the japan intimidating our friends in our allies but despite never having said he went to a military high school but despite never having served he really undestood the weight. The inordinate responsibility carried by the person who is commander-in-chief
What Was Nancy Pelosi's Role on the Same Day Gen. Mark Milley Calls China?
"We already civilian controlled military. Whether you agree with that premise or not, is irrelevant. That's our constitution. It's not a suggestion. The Constitution it's the governing body of the the most supreme governing document of the land. It's not just some dry piece of crap, parchment. Hey, we'll just the Constitution suggestion. We'll abide by what we feel like it. Otherwise I just use the toilet paper. That's not the way this works. Who authorized the call. It's now clear as day based on Donald Trump's statements and the acting secretary defense that the call was not authorized. So Millie took it upon himself. I say it's an open question only Because I'm still waiting for Mark Milley to give a statement about who in fact authorizes told him to do it. Here's the second question. The one I opened up the show with and I've been posting all day. I covered this in my podcast earlier to which I encourage you to listen to What was Nancy Pelosi's role on the same day Mark Milley calls the Chinese Communist Party general. In defiance of Donald Trump. He has no authority to do it. The secretary of defense hasn't given him this authority to do it. Nancy Pelosi tells her Democrat caucus up on the hill. Hey, Don't worry. We got our closet. Millie, We got this situation under control. What does that mean? Why did she say that? Who did she talk to? Did she coordinate this with Mark Milley? Who told her to do it. Well, who told her to do? Where did where does where does she think she gathered? This is this authority from it's certainly no nowhere to be found in the
Why Won't GOP Leaders Condemn Gen. Milley?
"Where is lindsey graham. Where is john kent. Where are these republican leaders who ought to be full-throated condemnation of gener- general milley. Here's the here's the tucker clip in context people with oversight seemed to be on his side this morning. Tom cotton. The republican senator from arkansas came on fox and friends to talk about mark milley. Here's part of that conversation. This book raises some serious concerns. That some of the allegations seem somewhat farfetched to me. But general secretary austin are going to be testifying in front of congress and just a few days and we'll address these concerns. Don't wanna jump conclusions yet. I know he will address it and will ensure that he addresses it but this is one of those claims. Obviously that seems a little farfetched idea that in american military general is going to warn adversary if an attack is coming as you say when donald trump was never even thinking about a military attack against china. The whole thing is pretty far fetched. We don't want to jump to conclusions yet. Really what conclusions at the time. That interview took place this morning in an already been. Conclusively establish that mark milley was pushing open. Racism on the united states military that he had bragged to fellow officers about resisting. The american president quote with guns and that he had told military officials that he not. The president controlled our country's nuclear arsenal. So much more evidence. Do you need exactly. And why does no one in washington consider this a crisis. The leadership of the pentagon some of them anyway consta- through the united states seems right to me. And frankly from where. I sit senator cotton and senator graham's milk toast response to. This crisis is pretty
Worried Trump Could 'Go Rogue,' Milley Took Secret Action to Protect Nuclear Weapons
"Now the big story in washington. Dc and it really did grip the city yesterday is what the general milley say and doom did he say it after the new woodward and cost a book peril has appeared. The white house stepped forward to defend general milley against charges. He did anything inappropriate. Editorials in the washington post and the wall street journal both call for infant investigations and hearings under oath general milley for fear that he is compromised. Not merely american defense into conversations with china but the constitutional order. Now i have said from the beginning two days ago. Hold your fire on this. Wait and see. Acting secretary of defense miller who had replaced mark esperer at the time of the second call says he did not authorize the call and that's extraordinary cause for resignation. Mike pompeo went on fox with hannity last night and made some comments on this. What you to your secretary pompeo number one. I have no recollection of a conversation. Like that. look we were all pretty down. We are about to hand over the reins of foreign policy to what this administration we. We've seen these last eight months. What that means for the united states of america so if someone asked was excited about january twentieth and the fact that we were no longer going to have the capacity to secure american freedom. Count me for being a pretty dark place to. But what's important to know sean. Is you know all this has as a product that somehow there was. This fear there was there was a cabinet members. Run around concern. The donald trump was going to engage in some kind of rogue activity or some kind of act of war to sorta lash out. This never happened. Just it's just patently absurd and so the entire credit for all of this assessment that woodward is now laid out in his book. We'll see what turns out but make no mistake about it. During that entire time the entire time. I served all four years. We conducted orally foreign policy. We had national security team. That was working hard to make sure we make the best decisions. We possibly good. And i think the data set which show that. We did a pretty damn effect job and doing that.
Top General Feared Trump Would Launch Nuclear War, Woodward Book Reports
"The least interventionist president in modern history vats who donald trump is and. They expect you to believe that he was just about to press the button and the birds new china year right so this is the trouble with the story. We have this absolute hack of a pathetic. Individual would has been trying to clamber back in relevance for forty years. Although he's a credit and he was really the junior partner in the The deep throat story that brought down. Nixon then we have mealy who has established a fact pattern of being a scumbag is being a political actor in uniform. We'll see which which off the aspects of this story holds water but we've got to analyze it right now because that's why we're here. That's why we do live radio and we're going to do it with Very good buddy jennifer. Who sent me the video. It's out there the whole town hall if you couldn't make it to l. a. Watch it two hours without bodies. Dennis prager mark levin. Charlie kirk and larry elder. Let's posted right now and it's putting it on twitter and facebook feeds told to us john. Let's let's leave the recall. Let's let them vote on photocopy pass. Whatever they take those suitcases about it from under the table this story. Is there any way to glad this for the biden regime. I ju-. I just stayed first of all. I want to say that. You and charlie kirk dennis prager mark levin at were all on fire on sunday at town hall. Twenty twenty one. So if you don't get a chance if you haven't seen it janice we're like whoa to my friend. You guys were i mean just nailing it and it was so much fun to share a stage with you that being said. No there's no way to wiggle out of this. But the democrats control everything in the media is controlled by the democrats and so maybe they will wiggle out of it. But have you wondered. We've heard so much during the trump administration about deep state leaks about all of these people these sources within the intelligence community. I don't think we have to look very far. They're sitting right in front of
Was There a Conspiracy Between Democrats and China During Trump's Presidency?
"I told you, isn't it awfully coincidental that CNN puts out a tweet on January 8th of 2021 the same day Mark Milley is alleged to have called a Chinese Communist Party general are nuclear powered enemies. CNN puts out a tweet the same day saying how Nancy Pelosi is quote been assured. That there are safeguards in place against a president Trump nuclear launch. I want to know immediately immediately like today, any lawmaker listening in D. C. We need answers to this right now. Was there a conspiracy between the Chinese Communist Party Democrat leadership, notably Nancy Pelosi and the Joint Chiefs Chairman and whoever else in the military was involved with this? To engage in a coup. To destroy the constitutional powers of the president, United States Donald Trump at the time, that is the question right now.
Where Does Gen. Mark Milley Allegedly Conspiring With China Rank in Biden Disasters?
"It's really hard to rank which Biden disaster is the greatest and I mean worse, this disaster of all But I would have to say coddling a joint Chiefs of staff chairman who now in a new book. Bob Woodward book is alleged. To have basically committed treason in the book. Bye. Conspiring with the Chinese Communist Party. To defend a straight. Donald Trump is the commander in chief. I don't know where that ranks up there. Jim 12 and three It's I don't know It's tough. It It's got to be one Jim say he's got to be what? I don't. I don't I don't know. I'm having to believe in our people behind. No Southern border. Economy exploding vaccine mandates. This is close. If there is a 1234 and five they're only said separated by decimal points. Folks. The story is about as deeply disturbing as I've ever heard. And here's an irony. I didn't mention during the podcast this morning, but I thought if during the break there Remember Stuart Sheller from the Marine Corps member Stuart Sheller. He was, uh, he put out a tape demanding our tape. Excuse me, a video fashion aging myself a video demanding accountability for the disaster. The military disaster in Afghanistan, you know, demanding accountability like a qualified military leader should do. And Stewart Scheller was relieved of his command member. That story about the Marine seems to have exited the headlines because Biden does so much terrible stuff. Um, the headlines evaporate so fast here. But it's It's really odd how he was relieved of command, and they've been targeting him Stewart Scheller, and yet it's alleged that Mark Milley was conspiring with a nuclear powered communist enemy of the United States. And yet the leftist media celebrating I'm No, I'm not kidding. I've got the, uh I've got the audio to prove it.
Gen. Mark Milley's Treasonous Calls With China
"You know what's not political. You know what shouldn't be political. The reporting that suggests that the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff reassured the chinese communist parties liberal army general that he would give the communist country a heads up if president trump launched an attack on china in the final months of his presidency. This was done. Apparently in a series of reported phone calls with general milley reassuring china. The we give them a heads up if we were going to attack him now. First of all the idea that trump would have ever considered an attack on. China is beyond preposterous. It's a complete bald-faced brazen effort to continue to make people try to hate trump as my friend mark davis in dallas points out trump hatred erodes the brain. It it it just. It does it. Just it eats at your brain. People who trump turn into irrational kooks kooks sit around and say art and donald trump was going to new china. General milley is a kook if this is true. Now i don't know it's bob woodward and robert kosters reporting in with in secret phone calls. According to bob woodward's book the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff wanted to assure china that we would not strike. He was he was literally committing treason. According to the book again. I would always do that. Caveat according to the book if the book is true if the book is correct you got the chairman of the joint chiefs acting like a trader.
"donald trump" Discussed on Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump
"To that. Because government is so essential to every single thing that the democrats want need to do to address all of those crises we discussed and government itself is poorly understood and has pretty poor approval ratings among the american public and so the sense of being focused on delivering as opposed to beating the drum that you know government has been corrupt. I could see how they could make the calculus that it's actually more important to show good government than it is to continue to as if they were in a campaign rail against bad government at the same time. I do agree that there seating high political terrain on these issues of corruption and in fact the message research around how to frame. Hr one before the people act is really actually shows that framing around corruption is is the best way to get sort of bipartisan. In cross ideological support it would be a shame if donald trump remained the standard bearer for draining the swamp. Right if he's still had that as his he's model and not the people who actually want to root out corruption in government which tend to want to obviously be which tend to be democrats and and there's a way to do it right. You can talk about the corruption in our democracy as the corruption of politicians picking their voters the corruption of big money in secret money in politics as well as the corruption of of gerrymandering and of politicians who get into office and i don't think they can win again so they try to change who gets vote in. How and that is all corruption brain and i agree with you on the basic point that that is high political terrain. It has always been as long as i've been alive and it will be continued to be so we can't take our off that ball. We need to be able to both in the policy in the substance and in the messaging. Remember the way. People of all ideological stripes feel cynical about their government and want someone to come in and clean house. One thing. that's been dogging me about this episode specifically sort of how to temper. What i think is totally valid enthusiasm for how things have gone so far with the murkiness of what comes in the next hundred thousand days so the two most consistent things we've heard from our previous guests are one basically how pleasantly surprised they are by. How biden has done out of the gate. I've been kinda surprised. It's kind of been refreshing to hear how we sorta found a middle ground march particular real high on climate and. I just think they're really doing well. I would say i like. I have been pleasantly surprised. I think biden has actually been surprised. He went there on the policy. And the other is all all the high mindedness and righteousness and the world isn't going to amount to much if after the first one hundred days. His agenda dries up because democrats can't bring themselves to get rid of the filibuster. Yes that's a angry so if you if you'd asked me after barack obama's first one hundred days how do and where things are going and say you know he. He did a lot. There's the recovery act in ledbetter act and a whole bunch of the bills and now they're gonna do financial form and they're going to do health care reform and it's going to take some amount of time but he's off to the races and we can see pretty clearly like where they're going and won't take to get there and with biden. I don't have any sense at all. Because he doesn't have the same kind of majorities like there's one vision of the future where they get it together get rid of the filibuster and do a whole bunch more stuff and then there's another realm where maybe they get one more bill through because they use budget reconciliation or maybe they don't do anything at all and i don't know how to wait those two possibilities and so it's hard for me You know hosting the final episode of joe biden hundred as five guests to say you know. They set themselves up man for better things in the future. I i wonder what your senses well. I think it is helpful to point your listeners. Towards something to watch to know whether or not this administration will be a success on all of the goals that it set out or not and that is whether the jim crow era of the filibuster remains. And it's it's really not much more complicated than that. This majority was put in washington to govern the ideas in the policies that are still on the table that are mostly wrapped up. The american jobs plan american families proposal are highly popular with you. Know in the sixty and seventy range most everything in it from raising taxes to massive infrastructure spending to paid family leave and child care and home healthcare cancelling student debt which is still on the agenda and being discussed all of this. Is you know. Sixty seventy percentage point popular stuff. This should be easy to do in a well-functioning representative democracy and yet we have these structural barriers to democracy most of which were either designed to maintain white supremacy or. Were you know sort of honed. In their current super format as as is the filibuster today to maintain conservative white rule. And it's really a question of whether or not the multiracial democracy that this country has been for the past fifty six years since the signing of the voting rights act is going to be able to persist in the future as our country becomes more diverse in as an over represented minority of conservative. Wait mostly man is seeing their power wayne and therefore getting much more brazen about rigging the rules to basically sort of reinstitute reinstituted white male property requirement in in our democracy. And that's really where we see. How racism and the structures of racism. The tools of racism ended up having costs for everyone. So i wanna talk about how. I would be helpful for people to think about the future but i wanna do it through the lens of your book. The some of us in the intro you write about how coming up in the policy world. The consensus within that world was that Egalitarian policy would advanced racial justice. But we should not mention that because that's leading with our chin we don't want to activate white identity this zero-sum mentalities like very easy to gin up and people And it's kinda funny. Because the first excerpts that i saw of the book came from enthusiastic liberal walks of that school. I think they seem to believe that. The book was an endorsement of that view but then. I read the whole thing. And i started thinking. Maybe they did they. You better read the book before you tweet about it. So here's where i think it's. I'm i wanted my book to have a little bit for everyone. I wanted in many ways for this to be something that can help. Create a common story in conversation Among the broad multiracial coalition that needs to be the enduring governing coalition for an america that survives much less thrives right. And that's a big tent. It includes a lot of different cultural backgrounds and ideologies and my book has a very strong point of view but it also comes from twenty years of working in that field in seeing those debates and so on the one hand you have people who were very much from that school who are sort of white progressives who wanna just.
"donald trump" Discussed on Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump
"donald trump" Discussed on Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump
"To me so it sounds like the proposition table is something like if biden wins he gets to pick up the pieces of a bunch of shattered alliances and a corrupted foreign policy and have to convince the world that the us hadn't fundamentally changed despite everything trump did whereas if trump had one you know who knows where it would've ended but we would have been further down the line of the us forming a partnership among global autocracies in in rivalry with european democracies which are kind of in their own fragile state. I think that's exactly right. I mean listen. We are all accustomed to the post world war two global world order where you know. The un has been a key actor and a lot of debates and conflicts where nato is a global line structure that we value in lean on In nc is critical global security. We have all these alliances in asia and for some reason trump just slowly walked away from all of those alliances right. I mean he refused to recommit to article five which is The provision in the nato charter. That says an attack on one country is an attack on all basically the the fact that us would come to the defense of nato country if attacked which essentially just unravels the entire line. So yeah i mean he. Basically was walking away from the key. Alliances that every president since world war two has leaned on and he was oddly A big fan of berating leaders of democracies especially women. Right so like you could see that. A lot of countries whether we're talking europe or asia. We're trying to figure out what a post united states path might look like for themselves. They couldn't depend on us anymore. I was kinda raised on a on a sanders. Ask critique of us military hegemony. I still hope that in my lifetime someone with sanders is doubts about the way. Us wield its power in the world. Institute's a more humble confident approach to To us global leadership. But i i kind of think that in practice. What trump showed is that the proposition on the table. Right now isn't whether america will be a big imperial power. Not but whether will use imperial power for the most base corrupt purposes At least some higher values will be driving things and when you serve that choice. A lot of the higher minded critiques of us foreign policy kind of drain away. Yeah me like you. And i kind of like came up in politics during the iraq. War or the run-up iraq war right. And i think you know. Wait when you look at the damage. That conflict did to the region into the entire world. It's hard not to Have a ton of sympathy for the leftist critique of us hegemony in us foreign policy when you really dig into the things that the cia was doing in the fifties and sixties and seventies and the coups. We're fermenting and the dictators propping up. The guy. I think i'm kind of like a elizabeth warren domestic policy brain and then more of bernie sanders foreign policy brain which might surprise people since i worked for obama. Who's called the liberal. But you know. I think there are areas where the united states has and will continue to provide indispensable leadership for example. I think that if the us is not out leading the charge on climate change we will not any targets. We need to meet to prevent the plant from melting. I think of the. Us is not in front leading the charge on developing nations vaccines in improving vaccine equity. Then no one will do it. So there's a clear role for the us to play in the world's that doesn't have to be militarized one though. That's kind of the key distinction. Yeah so biden. Talks a lot about foreign policy as a as a matter of relationships and specifically about his own longstanding relationships with a lot of global leaders today so as relieved as some of them have been to to see biden win into now. Have a familiar face charge in the us. Do you have any sense of how rattled. They were by trump and whether the experience of living through the trump presidency is complicating binds efforts to work multi-laterally with them like. Are they suspicious. It's a great question. I've wondered that myself. I would imagine that there will be countries. There will be partners who feel sufficiently burned by the us. Walking away from promises. Or or alliances that del rethink like forging ties that close. I'll be honest with you. I would be surprised if there are that many countries that feel that way i mean most countries understand that like us political leadership changes And and that you know our approach to foreign policy can change with it. I do suspect that. There's a lot of relief among traditional you. Partner countries like australia countries like Germany who like for no reason. Donald trump just loved kicking around markle. Who has been the stalwart leader In europe for like a decade or more. And so i. I assume that set will be relieved. I think a lot of allies in asia will be relieved. I kind of interpret everything we've talked about thus far too. That biden has a couple main overarching tasks. One is convincing purely eaters that he specifically is a trustworthy partner with sound judgment and the other is convincing them that. Us democracy is healthy enough. That while party will may change in the us. We're not inexorably on a road to kleptocracy. And they can look ahead to the future with the us without wondering if we're going to scrap alliances with democracies and forged them with russia china saudi arabia. Yeah i mean. I think there's a couple of ways you can quickly summarize. Maybe the trump approach right. It was it was capricious one day. He would just get mad in tweet about something. And all of a sudden we'd be in a tariff war with china. I think countries like moving on from that. But you're you're right to flag this kleptocracy piece. Because i think some countries quickly figured out that The way to his heart was was through his wallet that they could offer personal favors and that would be kind of a new and exciting way for them to do business and get around Traditional hurdles that they dealt with when to share with the us all right so then. Let's talk about what biden has done. So far into extent day advance his goals and to what extent that cut against him. It seems like the big faith restoring steps. He's taken are still works in progress like he rejoined the paris agreement. Which i i kinda took as a bit of a gimme but beyond that. He wants to reenter the iran deal. He wants to reform the two thousand one Military force authorization He says he wants to withdraw from afghanistan and more recently he's his administration has talked about reviving anti corruption as a foreign policy goal. So what do you make of that list. And how hopeful are you that he'll accomplish those things. Yeah look i agree with you. The rejoining the paris climate accord's was both a gimme and also i think probably largely symbolic We need to tighten down those targets if we're really going to prevent some of the most devastating consequences from climate change. That said i mean. We went from having a president of the united states. That rhetorically was to the right of the president of basically every other country When it comes to climate change to that is actually committed to it and that is trying to embed Climate change in all parts of the us government in all policy making. So i think you know ultimately that's a really good thing and there are some reports yesterday. Brian that the the us might be considering essentially doubling the targets for for emissions reduction. that's.
"donald trump" Discussed on Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump
"The user fifty days of forty nine. The bill as amended is passed..
"donald trump" Discussed on Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump
"I'm brian boiler welcome to rubicon.
"donald trump" Discussed on Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump
"One when we talked about low hanging fruit the easy stuff. We expected president biden to do early in his term. Both because he promised he would and because he could do it without congress he did a lot of that stuff right. Off the bat particularly things that simply reversed terrible decisions president trump had made rejoin. The paris climate accord withdrawing the ban on transgender military. Service he also did some new under appreciated things like increasing pandemic food assistance to the poor but one month in the easiest to do stuff is done and the issues confronting him are tougher of these the one causing the most public consternation and it would probably have the biggest overall effect on american pocketbooks is what to do about student. Loan forgiveness an issue that lit up young voters during the democratic primary. We are going to roll back student. Loan debt for about ninety five percent of students who have debt onto the proposal. The we introduce today all student debt would be cancelled in six months so far biden has extended the pandemic air moratorium on debt payments which means americans can stop making them temporarily. He did that on day. One on the campaign trail though biden promised you immediately provide ten thousand dollars in debt relief and stimulus right now. His allies on capitol hill including senate majority leader. Chuck schumer and elizabeth warren want him to do much more to forgive fifty thousand dollars outstanding debt. There biden has been unequivocal. It's not happening. We need at least fifty thousand dollar minimum. What will you do to make that happen. I will not make that happen but this mix of positions raises some thorny questions if forgives lots of student debt. Now what happens when new college. Students start re accumulating it if he can't legally forgive up to fifty thousand dollars worth of debt. Why would he be able to forgive ten thousand and he can lawfully forgive ten thousand. Why not go. Bigger one of the answer to that. Last question clearly is politics. A lot of the debt is held by people who have higher level degrees. A lot of the barring was done by students who were going to elite schools talk is proposing is asking average americans. You know your plumbers electricians or people who made the probably pretty wise financial decision not to go to college themselves to pick up the tab for for the students that do this kind of friction over who gets what and is it fair arises. The government changes economic policy. But it's particularly pitched when we're talking about one time only benefit for a group of people dominated by college graduates. This may explain why it's among the least popular issues of all of biden's agenda items but it would unquestionably help the tens of millions of people who benefit and it would put more money into the economy ahead of what we all hope will be a post corona virus boom. So what should he do. When should he do it. I guess this week is mad iglesias. He's the author of the book was americans and the slow boring newsletter and he's written extensively about the interaction between the substance and politics of student. Debt forgiveness we'll assess the tension between biden congressional democrats on this issue and whether this is a promise biden maybe wishes he hadn't made..
"donald trump" Discussed on Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump
"Won't last as norms right i was gonna say if if the lawyers who are involved in the trump years Go back to practicing law just like nothing happened and these norms aren't codified than it just seems like democrats can respect the the old norms for four or eight years and then we'll just be right back where we started. That's right and some states. now where rudy. Giuliani and sydney powell went around with their outrageous. Cases to perpetuate trump's big lie that he'd won by a landslide. Question is will the bar associations do anything and that's going to be a test right now If they don't the legal profession has taken a dive if they do start actually enforcing the the codes of ethics They're going to be some lawyers and a lot of trouble coming up the other tools of accountability commissions committees censures and subpoenas which of these have teeth and don't require republican votes. We'll get into that when we return. Rubicon is brought to you by carew. 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Eating healthier has never been easier with locale carbs. Smart vegetarian and pestering options every week. Every single recipe is packed with fresh produce. Sourced directly from farmers hellofresh is particularly useful. If your partner is in the kitchen but you want to contribute to the cooking's well that is. If you're like me my shipment. This week included firecracker meatballs with roasted carrots and sesame. Rice port canada's top with pickled onion and monterey jack in boston tomato and herb chicken over buttery garlic spaghetti i was able to cook all three and hold up my end of the bargain in between thirty and forty minutes. A dish hellofresh offers over twenty three recipes featuring a range of flavors cuisines and ingredients. So you'll never get bored. Try something new every week. Hellofresh selection of delicious atoms getting bigger and better every week featuring quick breakfast lunches proteins savory size and crave desserts go to hellofresh dot com slash rubicon ten and use code rubicon ten for ten free meals including free shipping. That's hellofresh dot com forward slash rubicon one zero and code rubicon one zero for ten free meals including free shipping hellofresh. America's number one meal kit rubicon is brought to you by super coffee. Super coffee is the healthy delicious alternative to sugary coffee drinks starbucks rapid pacino's and other iced coffee and energy drinks super copies made to power your entire day with its unique combination of caffeine healthy fats and protein the provide stained jitter free energy with no crash. Did you know starbucks rap. Pacino has fifty two grams of sugar and three hundred and seventy calories. That's starting your day with a double cheeseburger. Super coffee is justice. Delicious as a frappuccino but contains zero grams of sugar. Ten protein and only eighty calories per bottle. It's also kid friendly lactose free gluten. Free super copies bestseller is there. Bottled coffees but they also make tasty candidates bresso's coffee creamer and ground coffee. I discovered super coffee three trainer at my gym about two or three years ago. And keep a stash of regular and mocha bottles on hand for midday pick-me-ups but the candidate our game changer. For those of you who want something with a little more kick and a little less volume. Super coffee was recently named the fastest growing food and beverage brand in america by inc magazine. Super coffee has a sixty day. Money back guarantee. Meaning if you don't love it you get your money back. No questions asked. We've worked out an exclusive deal for rubicon podcast listeners. Receive twenty five percent off your entire purchase. If you're new to super coffee. I recommend one of their bestselling variety packs or bundles as a great way. Try all of their delicious flavors to claim this deal. Good at drink super coffee dot com slash rubicon or use code rubicon at checkout super copies. Also available nationwide over twenty five thousand stores like target whole foods walmart kroger. nc cbs. welcome back to rubicon. my guest. this week is john dean. You probably know best. As richard nixon's white house counsel who turned on nixon and became a star witness in the watergate hearings. But he's since become a vocal critic of the republican party. We're talking about democrats can end. Must hold the trump administration accountable even if they don't seem to have the stomach for it. So after disposing of the trial democrats announced that they will create or at least try to create an independent nine. Eleven style commission to investigate the capital insurrection. Is that the proper next step in your mind. It is an important step. What this really means to me is not getting revenge against trump. it's educating the american people about what the hell he was doing how dangerous he and his followers are how corrosive is to democracy. And if we don't deal with it what it's gonna do to the country and the first thing that sort of established watergate was the name As bob haldeman nixon's chief of staff told me during watergate he said know john watergate's kinda like teapot dome. It's a catchy name. So the first thing to get through to the public is for that name to to attach and that this is why and this is why. The post watergate reforms weren't just about well. Nixon resigned so we don't have to worry about another crooked president and we can just move on. They had reforms the church committee in the and and various laws that they passed the reformed a bunch of how intelligence was shared with. Congress is because watergate wasn't about just the the break in at the watergate hotel it was about a whole strata of malfeasance underneath that that most people don't remember today but that's why.
"donald trump" Discussed on Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump
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"donald trump" Discussed on Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump
"donald trump" Discussed on Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump
"Hey Rubicon fans. It's Brian if you're listening to this then hopefully already know that we've just launched a new weekly newsletter here at crooked media. It's called big tent. I write it and my goal is to walk with you through the big debates unfolding among Democrats in real time from the campaign trail to the Senate floor to the most productive venues twitter. And I want to do that because the issues we argue about and how we work them out. We'll both shape the future of the progressive movement we share and probably also help determine whether Donald trump gets a second terminate. The first edition just came out on Friday January thirty first. But you can subscribe today at crooked dot com slash big tent I'm really psyched about this. I hope you sign up and encourage people you know to sign up to China.
"donald trump" Discussed on Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump
"It's complicated because in ordinary trial. You're completely right that the prosecutor would say and you will hear evidence that one thing. The prosecutor can't do in a trial title because it's not lawful is to say in the opening statement in front of the grand jury the witnesses already said thus and such and so therefore the guy is guilty because you can't in ordinary trial refer to evidence that was gathered outside of the trial. The whole principle of due process of law is that the evidence has to be brought to bear right there in front of the jury. So that's not what happens in ordinary trial at all the prosecutors here. The house managers had no choice but to do that because they may not have a chance to call any witnesses but they did have more leeway than an ordinary prosecutor would because they can refer freely to all of the evidence that was gathered in front of the House House which you could not do it in a criminal trial. The Way I think about all this is that there are signals the Senate can and has in the past provided to indicate to the public. I guess that the trial outcome ref would reflect impartial. Justice like one is through. Consensus is if if senators agree on the trial rules. One hundred zero like they did in the in the Clinton case. That's a pretty strong indication that the Senate believes it's equipped to to render judgment fairly and another. would be like the completeness of the record you know if the question is has it received or sought all the information it needs to make decisions about guilt. Answer's yes that's a pretty strong indication that the public whether they're happy with the outcome or not should treated treated as legitimate. Yeah you're right and I know what you're saying which is completely true and correct raises a really fascinating question to me which is is given that the Republicans in the Senate no they ninety nine percent likelihood have the votes to vote not to remove Donald Trump from office purpose and given that they could get the legitimacy you're describing by having farrow and agreed upon procedure and then listening to the witnesses and then voting. Why aren't they doing it? I mean that really is a hard question and I don't mean to ask that in some. You know purely rhetorical by saying. Why aren't they doing that? I'm trying to force them into doing it. I'm actually asking a genuine question. What is it that they're so concerned about? I mean if John Bolton testifies and says his worst do we. I really think that that's GONNA move enough senators to change the outcome to get us to a two thirds majority necessary to remove Donald Trump. I would be stunned if that were the case. Yes so I mean. Imagine the worst thing that John Bolton can say yes I went into Donald trump and I told him. This violates national security and it's an impeachable offense and he said to me I don't care you know I wanna get reelected Ima- imagine that that was the testimony. Do we really believe that would get us. Two thirds majority of centers. I kind of don't and so I don't don't really understand at a deep level. Why the Senate majority is taking the risk of the whole trial being seen as illegitimate? Unless you think that the the answer is that they are so committed to the idea that the whole process is illegitimate. They're so committed to Donald Trump's narrative. The whole impeachment is as he keeps on saying a hoax. Folks you know fake that they think there's nothing wrong with doing it their way as a hoax and as a fake and then they'll just say yeah well they did a hoax. We did a hoax. I do think that Jr on a cer- like working on a on a completely different plane that there is something important about trying to get Congress to win in this basic question of whether these people have to testify whether these documents have to be produced in an impeachment that's in part about obstruction of Congress that that whether it has any bearing on how the senators ultimately vote or if senators enters ultimately vote to acquit on charges. Anyway I if this process ends with the obstruction both having been You know Attempted and then be having been successful and see he gets acquitted. Anyway that's just a roadmap for future presidents to engage in wholesale cover-ups like this and I mean maybe that's Maybe that's a kind of argument that that the house managers should be making about. Why testimony is important even though there's already enough to convict But that's one thing that's actually worried me about how what's going to happen if they get to the end of all this they Vote not to hear any more witnesses see anymore documents and then quit and then I have you know in a in a trial that was about obstructing congress in part. That's a great point and I'm also worried about that. You know one thing that I have been saying. All along about the obstruction of Congress articles of impeachment is the reason you know that it was appropriate to impeach the president as if Congress starts impeachment inquiry in the present. stonewalls says. I'M NOT GONNA cooperate in the end. The only remedy left that saves us from a presidency. That's completely above. The law is impeachment. Like that's the only thing you can do if you're the house right you say you're gonNA impeach and and the President says I won't cooperate you know you can't go to the courts and compel it not realistically and frankly it's entirely possible that the courts would've said not our problem impeachment is your soul power. Not Ours is an all you can do is to impeach under those circumstances and if you know the president is then nevertheless. LS Not removed from office. It does send that message as you say that the president can just get away with it. And that's very worrisome. For the basic structure basic structure of our government. Some future presence might not want to be impeached and I will say that. The second article of impeachment was unnecessary from the president's perspective. Active he could have fought the individual witnesses one at a time without announcing in that grand way that he did that he wouldn't cooperate in any way and if he had done that he would have escaped that second article of impeachment. So you know that was I would call that an unforced error. I actually think he was an unforced error that should be attributed it at least in parts of the White House counsel who wrote that letter and signed that letter and who is now defending the president so apparently the president doesn't think it was an error because he's relying on the same guy right now to defend him. That's a separate question. Like why is that. Okay but bottom line there is a serious serious danger that if president think they can get away with two stonewalling that the congress congressional power to impeach will just eroded to nothing. Let's let's wind down on on that point because I think think it's right to say this will be the first time the Senate has used it so power to try impeachment to conceal rather than consider evidence period. Right I think so. Oh Yeah I mean. I can't think of any prior example. Where they're where they're not trying to get witnesses not trying to get more information so just taking it as a given that impeachment supporters and Democrats and you know hopefully a growing list of people as time goes on Talk about it that way and try to leave an asterisk next to this trial l.. What will the consequences for the impeachment? Power be going forward or can we even say anything about that before the next election. We'll as you say. The election is hugely significant and we will interpret events in light of that election after the fact even if there's no good hard scientific reason to think they ought to be so. If trump is not removed from office as seems probable and is then reelected right we end the judgement of history will be boy. Impeachment has completely lost the Umph that historically had you know the idea that you know bill. Clinton's legacy was seriously tainted anted by impeachment. The idea that Richard Nixon resigned rather than being a running the risk of being impeached not just removed but but impeach that will look like a a very faint relic of a of a lost time if on the other hand trump is not convicted and then loses in the election even if he would have lost the election anyway. You know people will say well you see. Impeachment is vindicated. Maybe you weren't able to remove the president from office but the taint of impeachment was so significant that it had an impact on the presidential election. And we'LL WANNA tell ourselves that story because we want to legitimate our existing institutions creaky old constitution. You know two hundred and twenty five plus plus years old and there's a way in which you know no other country in the world still runs its affairs in this way since we enacted our Constitution. France has been through five reboots right Francis on what they call their fifth republic. That's their five point. Oh their version. Five point oh of their constitution at a time that we're still stuck doc with basically the same thing although with you know at the reconstruction amendments added in but when it comes to impeach him. We've got the exact same creaky thing we've already had always had and it's possible that it just doesn't work anymore and that's something that's painful but we need to confront that reality. I want to offer you a close on on a happier. Thought of you have on for for listeners. Or if if there's any sort of optimistic side to how you you see these events playing out well there is. There is because right right now whether you and I are speaking. We're we're in the middle of events and I think you know it's appropriate for us to be honest. I think you've been and I'm trying to be also about the genuine threat to structure of our institutions that exists but we are not speaking right now at a point where those institutions are destroyed. You know the president of United States took actions agency that to my mind at least are clearly at the core of what the framers thought should be impeachable and he was impeached. So in that sense offense. The institution is working correctly as we speak. The institution is working correctly in that impeachment occurred. The trial may insert raised illegitimate the non-removal of the president. If that's what happens in certain ways be a legitimate. They're all these problems they're real. We've been talking about them but it remains possible still that our democratic institutions will be robust enough to save us. You Know Donald Trump could lose the next election and then we will be able to tell ourselves with some credibility we got through it. You know our long national nightmare there will then in some way over. We shouldn't be naive about it. Even if that happens we should go back and look at what we can do better but that is still a possible outcome..
"donald trump" Discussed on Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump
"The GAO report that you mentioned earlier. You know this finding finding that yeah the military hold violated the law All of that in a political sense is giving an enormous amount of momentum and I think you know whether it'll break the damn on Senate Republicans holding trump accountable. I mean I still people are pretty pessimistic. But the pressure is just like Ruben. Ratcheted up and ratcheted up. I think way more than had none of this come out in the interim from the time that the articles were voted on and then if they had been transmitted right away I think in the space that was created by Polisi holding them back and the amount of shoes that have dropped in the meantime have you know. Put the pressure on you know just made it feel more urgent and I think for the trump administration must make them feel incredibly really nervous. Because I don't think they know when the next shoe will drop. I think they know what shoes could drop because they know exactly what happened. But they don't know when they'll drop in like for example today Robert Hyde who's this Republican who's running running for Congress in Connecticut who was the one who was texting with I love Parnasse about possibly serving Marie Ivanovich in Ukraine. And you know whether or not they were like contemplating depleting a hit on her as it sounds like but that they've both denied sense His house was raided today by the FBI. So like who knows knows what's coming next is is how I see it i. I'm really glad you put it that way. Because you're scoop underscored to me exactly why. The trump administration obstructed congress in the first place in by Republicans particularly the Senate have done have signaled that the desire many of them have to keep as much new information from coming to light as possible but also I think illustrated a lesser disgust. Piece piece of the wisdom of Nancy Pelosi's decision to hang onto the articles for a few weeks Like we we tended to discuss that tactic through the lens of weather. It would force Mitch McConnell till admit defeat in some way or or or whether Senate Republicans individually would come out and say you know I'm I'm GonNa Not Vote for any motion. That doesn't allow us to call witnesses. And so you know now that the trial is getting underway and you know sure ince's of that sort have been made You see a lot of You Know Post Game Analysis of this decision. The policies gambit failed in some sense. But I think that's totally wrong right In part because this this flood of information that's coming out is is so unsettling that it seems like like it will make it very difficult for fifty one republicans to vote to shutdown new factfinding But also so because Pelosi kind of created as window right like that irrespective of what Republicans were going to do with their votes or how they were going to allow the trial to be structured assured the there was just this opening she created for people with information to to come forward right like. There's a strong indication that the Republicans in the Senate are leaning towards not allowing witnesses not allow documents To to come to light so in this limited period that Pelosi created stuff has started to come out Do you see. Do you see it that way or did you see it when you were reporting out your story that this was like an effect of of her having created some sense of uncertainty about when the trial would be allowed to start. I definitely didn't see it when I was reporting my story. I was sort of head down and you know oblivious because it's the holidays I'd his own I don't I'm not can't get in her head so I don't know how much I mean. She certainly didn't know in to some extent what was coming down the pike. I mean in terms of my own reporting I can see. That's for sure the partners I mean left parts had certainly indicated before that I believe if I'm remembering correctly like I'm GonNa Talk to Congress and I'm GONNA turn stuff. He might have already turned some of his documents over. So I think that and everybody's aware that this documentary evidence is out there So it I mean. In retrospect it seems like it was you know a wise move move on her part Trying to think there was something else you said but I'm now Oh I was thinking about how you said about Mitch McConnell and the Republicans like at this point they basically have to you know. New evidence has come forward and it now when they if they don't call witnesses and if they don't subpoenaed documents you know it'll look like they're not acting upon you know new evidence that's come forward that you really need you know. Oh you should be required to investigate and it reminded me you know on the one hand you think. Well they now have to do that like how could they their backs up against the wall but it reminded me as you're you're talking of the cavenaugh hearings and you know new. Witnesses came forward. And you know there was all this pressure to open up the FBI investigation. And they did did the sham process and call today so it's certainly not beneath them to do so do the question. What's the political cost? I I guess of doing it right right. The I mean the the Parnasse case. I'm I'm glad you mentioned it. I think it's like the most irrefutable refutable testament to the withholding the article strategy. Like he didn't his lawyer produce these incredible documents to the impeachment. Investigators and I think they like literally within hours of the House. Vote to refer the articles of impeachment to the Senate so like barely in time to be included in the factual record. And I wasn't aware that that your article had also gotten looped into the same factual records. So it you know the there. There is a quantifiable amount of information. That just was not known and to the impeachment investigators after they voted to impeach trump that became known to them before the trial began. And I think that makes it like fairly irrefutable refutable that the strategy strengthened the case itself completely apart from the question of how Republicans will vote destructor the trial or whether they'll allow allow any of this new information to affect their strong inclination to acquit trump. Did Gao finding. Today I mean I would put it in the same category gory it. It makes it really uncomfortable for the Republicans know violating the impoundment contract was not part of the you know was not an article of impeachment mint. But you now have this independent body saying the trump administration violated the law in connection to this story and you see already today today. Republicans sort of saying well the GAO's not that independent. which is you know? If that's your argument gets a losing argument And or you see them avoiding reporters they. Don't I want to comment on it. It's too it's too awkward And so the I will say from the time that the that the House voted on the articles to to where we are a day right now it is different information environment and it's a different a different political environment. I think for Senate Republicans that were already feeling a little bit uncomfortable up with just like cleaning their hands and making this go away as fast as they could. Yeah I think it was earlier today. Chuck Schumer tweeted something to the effect or said something to the effect of like you know. God Forbid Republicans. You know try to see all this information Render judgment against trump one way or another based on the incomplete record and then after they've already cast their votes to cover up whatever equipped trump the the whole truth comes out and not only have they voted for the cover it but the cover up fails retroactively and I'm watching. At least the Republican publican leadership grapple with this essential question. Like they must be aware now like it's like I think that they probably thought once the House House had voted to impeach trump that they would have a lot more control over the information environment Then they did when the house was running the show and the last two or three weeks have proven that they really don't right like there are still they're still foy they're still leakers. They're still witnesses. There's court cases that are ongoing and And these bombshells will continue to drop like in in the middle of the trial after the trial and so they are actually weighing this basic question. It's not cover up or no cover up it's it's Should we let all this information. Come out at once in the trial and then rip off the band aid and be done with it or let let it all Kinda dribble out slowly after we've already communicated with our votes our intention to to not let the public see this stuff. Yeah I'm two things I think they have to continue to obstruct because on you know I the information that's coming out is so damning and I can only imagine the information information that's being most closely protected like the Blair Duffy emails or whatever. The State Department e mails show are even worse. Like that's why we haven't haven't seen them And that's why you know the witnesses that haven't been allowed to testify Mulvaney. Blair Duffy John Bolton you know they have the worst stories to tell and so I can't imagine they take all right. Actually you know just that we can control. It will let everything come forward because it's You know it's like president. The president shooting someone Fifth Avenue. Like it's all GonNa be right there for us to see I think the other thing. That's a little tricky maybe for Democrats. It's not tricky but on the one hand there is plenty of evidence to explain what happened. between trump and Ukraine. And and you know him soliciting foreign interference in the election on that phone. Call the ties between asking for that investigation to Joe Biden and holding the military aid. The evidence is there that said. Is there more evidence out there absolutely so I think there's like this. Tricky thing that Republicans are also playing on where it's like. Well if you don't have the complete clete picture how on Earth Are you impeaching him. If there's all this stuff that still remains out there then you didn't do due diligence and so both things can be true. You can both have enough. Evidence is to move forward and there can also be plenty of evidence that still being obstructed and I think some of the allegations that Parnasse has raised just raise completely new questions like up until now the physical safety and the circumstances of Maria von riches being removed from Ukraine weren't part of the story really and as the FBI raid today shows the that's a new avenue investing of Investigation that cannot be you know just ignored or forgotten like we. I think the American public has a right to know Whether she was being threatened and back whom and where did it stop. How high up did it go? So a couple thoughts on that one is the this talking with the Republicans really have taken to about how this information coming to light just underscores that the house didn't do a very thorough job in its impeachment. Went totally allies. The point that trump has been impeached for obstructing the inquiry. Right like there's a reason. The House's factual record is incomplete complete and it's almost entirely because donald trump refused to cooperate with the inquiry. And so now he's they're going to have to vote on that article of impeachment and you the logic of what they're saying is that basically they're going to they're going to neuter their own institution and its power to compel executive branch disclosure of information. And I'm not sure for the trial will allow the impeachment managers to confront Senate Republicans with that contradiction that internal contradiction. And I'm curious to see like how how individual Republicans Republicans as a whole grapple with it The second thing is that I you know the the environment is uncertain enough that the White House is preparing for defections or at least is claiming to be preparing for defections on the question of witnesses and documents and trump himself after kind of pretending for awhile to want a fair trial. Trial now says that he might claim executive privilege if witnesses appear normally fights over that are resolved by AH accommodation between Congress and the executive branch or by courts..
"donald trump" Discussed on Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump
"I have been directed by the House of Representatives to inform the Senate. The House has passed h read seven nine eight a resolution appointing and authorizing managers but the impeachment trial of Don. John John from he has been held accountable. He has been impeached. He's been impeached forever. They can never erase that. There's conventional wisdom in Washington. That goes like this. Nancy Pelosi delayed the start of Donald Trump's impeachment trial for several weeks to four Senate Republicans. Not to rig it. And since it's Mitch. McConnell didn't agree to hear from witnesses or subpoenaed documents that means she lost but the conventional wisdom is wrong. She one to see why imagine policy referred the articles of impeachment right after the House passed them. McConnell could have buried the trial in the Christmas holiday or convenient right after the New Year Senate. Republicans have dismissed the charges or acquitted trump based on the bad faith argument that the house didn't hear from firsthand witnesses. All of whom of course trump ordered not to testify testify instead Pelosi created uncertainty. There'd be no trial until we know whether Republicans plan to engage in a cover-up or not what and that left every Republican senator hounded by a simple question would they allow witnesses or would they block them. McConnell didn't quote quote Unquote Cave but it sure seems like his members did Maine Senator. Susan Collins told reporters on Friday that she's working with a small group of fellow all over Republicans on ensuring witnesses in the trial. I can't imagine that only two witnesses that our democratic colleagues would WANNA call would would be called. Sally should the Senate consider new evidence as part of the impeachment..
"donald trump" Discussed on Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump
"Greg Sargent thanks for coming back on the show. Thanks for having me on Brian. So by the time people listened to this episode. Donald Trump will be impeached beached He will probably be very upset about it But because of the holidays will be in this kind of little phase where the process is still underway. But nothing's is happening If you're vulnerable Senate Republican are you happy about the pause or would you rather get it over with sooner rather than later. Well I think a lot depends on how the break goes right. I mean if they start catching hell in their in their states about from constituents who are who are angry about the potential for a sham. I am process Sham trial. Then I think that they hate to have to wait. I mean it's GonNa be on democratic groups and pro rule of law groups to kick up a lot of fuss during that period and get some pressure on them along those lines. Those of us who supported impeachment from the outset have made the argument that there's this value in doing it even if Republicans are going to make sure that trump's days in office Because the process the forcing Republicans in the House and Senate to take votes it all those votes essentially constitute them his corruption their own. How do you think that proposition looks today? Well I think it looks really good and you can see that very clearly in precisely what Mitch McConnell is doing to try and turn this trial Ryland to a very quick little. Donald Trump was out there and I don't really think we should place much stock in this. But he was out there saying oh I want to turn this into a AH a festival of of baying for Hunter. Biden's head on a platter and Mitch McConnell Essentially shut that down pretty quick and said no and I think as you wrote somewhere Mitch McConnell was saving trump from himself. And doing this as well as saving his own marginal members from long drawn out trial. Point being though that Mitch Inch Mitch. McConnell understands as well as anyone else does that the more facts that are brought into evidence the worse it is for the marginal Republican senators and tough places like Susan Susan Collins and main Martha mcsally and errors in Arizona and so forth. I had direct experience of that earlier this week. I was able to get The video of Susan Collins in Nineteen Ninety nine during the Bill Clinton impeachment trial calling for more witnesses and evidence. I am willing to travel. The road owed wherever it leads whether it's to the conviction or the acquittal of the president but in order to do that I need more evidence. I need witnesses and further evidence to guide me to the right destination to get to the truth and I was surprised that they got back to me. Pretty quick with a quote from Senator herself saying I haven't made the decision on the witness issue in this particular case now. This is only a process question. You'd think thank right but it's a tough process question. Do you want to vote for the cover up or do you want to vote for transparency and truth and The fact that Susan Collins this is struggling with this I think shows that even just going through the motions is tough for them. Yeah I mean it's there's you know multiple all steps here right there's Probably going to be some sort of resolution to establish the ground rules of the trial and then at some point votes on witnesses and then the vote vote on whether to acquit or convict. And it's obviously Mitch McConnell's goal to make sure that the Republicans vote to convict and ideally the Republicans ever have to vote for any witnesses at all so that just that means he's going to try to around fifty one votes to basically basically dismissed the charges Before you even get to place where house. Impeach managers can request or demand Mick Mulvaney or John Bolton testify before the Senate every phase of that process the the cost to Republicans I think becomes higher her but that just means that at the at the early phase you know. Are we going to. Are we going to have a fair trial at all Mitch. McConnell can lose two or three senators give them a free free pass to say I want to hear from witnesses but if you get fifty one votes to dismiss they can say look. I tried tried to vote for A process where Where we heard from witnesses? My colleagues disagreed. So now I have to vote With what we have before us from from the articles articles of impeachment in the presentation of them by by the managers. And I don't think there's enough there to convict so I quit. And thus every Republican Senator Votes votes to acquit. And I. I don't think that that's like a highly unlikely outcome And I guess it just it gets to. It gets to my thinking about like like what more Democrats could do. I obviously votes to cover up Trump's crimes you know say no to any witness testimony are going to be bad for whichever vulnerable. Republicans have to take those votes but you know should Democrats have. I've been beating the drum starting in September that that Republicans need to be committing to a fair trial now should Democrats be withholding unrelated legislation education. Like the Defense Authorization Act or the The NAFTA UPDATE and just saying we're not going to play ball with you on on other things if what you're going to do is complete the cover up. Trump is asking you. Well I just want to return to something you said earlier about the scenario a scenario ruin which Mitch McConnell. Let's to two or so of the marginal senators Make fake noises about wanting a real trial and then still oh passing a quick Acquittal with fifty one or passing the initial steps to the acquittal by essentially getting past the process stuff with fifty one votes I think the calculation there becomes complicated for them right because even if they do that even if Susan Collins and Cory Gardner and Martha mcsally or whichever three you pick are allowed to to sort of make their fake noises. If the whole thing is a sham. It's still bad for Senate Republican. That's true right now. The the because I mean in this era of nationalized voting right everything turns on the national narrative and one really interesting thing will to track will be whether they're those marginal senators privately go to McConnell and say we really need a real We need a real proceeding at least something more or than just a quick fifty one vote now right and if that happens of course then they run more risks in addition right. That's that's really the spot they're in so I mean I guess the in terms of messaging it seems like the thing that Democrats can do that could be most effective. Active is just to continue to spotlight the facts right. I mean look how quickly the debate shifted when Schumer just sent that one letter now. I think there's an argument that that shows. They should have been doing it more more aggressively earlier but it just goes to show you that just one. There's if there's one thing that the press can get right on this stuff it's a cover up or not cover. I'm right right do house. Democrats have any substantive role to play with their own powers Going going forward now that they've passed the articles so I think there's all this talk about them holding onto the impeachment and not sending it over one thing one reason I'm a little skeptical optical of that and I'm happy to be told I'm wrong about this you know there's been a lot of criticism of leadership for doing it too quickly for doing it. Too narrowly and so forth. I was for for a broader impeachment. I would've been happy to have a little longer or somewhat longer but I really wonder whether there's a genuine risk of some of these moderate starting to drop off off if it if it drags on right now. I don't know what happens from the point of view of those moderate members. If you pass the articles through the House the impeachments done and then you hold it. I suspect that they'd still not like that right. Because what they want is for took pushed over to the Senate I mean they want the hot potato out of their exact hands. But I'm going to switch metaphors. There's no such thing as half pregnant with impeachment Schmidt right you can't vote for the resolution that sets the rules of impeachment And then learn all this horrible stuff and then vote against impeachment. Which is why you know you? You have a basically unanimous democratic caucus voting for the articles of impeachment. Having voted for them. If more bad news comes to light about trump nick more evidence that he committed further impeachable offenses comes too late. You don't get to you. Don't save yourself anything by ignoring them. You've already voted for the impeachment. If you're scared the the voters in your district are going to be mad at you for that. It's that that ship has sailed it's overwrite so there's an argument that I think leadership should make to them though like we should press what we have to our fullest advantage and if that means is Holding more hearings damage trump. That's good for all democrats If that means You know holding the articles impeachment in order to make a stink about About the fact that the Senate majority leader has already announced. He wants to read the trial. That's all all to the better like the the the hard part is over the you know they are already You know going to be Identified in ads ads or whatever and Republican campaigns in the fall has members who voted to impeach trump. It's already happened so it reminds me in a weird way of back when Congress was debating the affordable care act and in Democrats were agonizing over whether they should do a public option or not or a national exchange versus a state based health insurance exchange and it was just so beside. The point is like it's obamacare either. You're going to vote for Obamacare or against it so stop agonizing over the little details If you decided that you need to vote for this because it's the right thing to do but you're scared about the political consequences down the line. The picayune details details aren't GonNa be what what causes you problem. It's going to be the vote. Will the votes done. So now. Just you know. Make the most of it That's sort of how I see it I I guess. I'm curious for your thoughts on that. Well I just want to try and step back and and raise a bigger point about all of this. I think we're almost pinning too much on some of this process stuff we know he's getting acquitted. Right we know that's going to happen. Okay we would like there to be a trial that's real. I think we don't know whether even if that happened. How much we would get from Bolton and Mulvaney although I would love to see it tried right so I don't? I don't know that that we can actually expect too much of a range of options at the end of this chapter right here right to me what I think really matters. There's more as what happens after the impeachment on the equival. Right if the Democrats continue to prosecute this stuff in court if they try to you know get testimony from people. Oh and by the way to go back to the point you raised before the possibility of other things breaking. You know. There's this I think there's a sort of illusion out there that this ends with trump's trump's acquittal right it doesn't I mean all these Republicans who vote no on the articles in the House and all the Republicans who vote to acquit. The Senate and. I think it's almost certainly going to be near unanimous in both right. Yeah what really is going to end up mattering over the long. Longterm is what comes out after and I think there's a extremely good chance we're GONNA get incredibly big revelations down the line that are at least as bad as the ones we already know the trial unless something unexpected happens and who knows maybe by the time you listen to this We'll be in a very different place but the trials probably going to start Artan early January. So we're talking a couple of weeks to To communicate to as much of the country as possible that Senate Republicans are going to try to short circuit witness testimony to complete a cover up for Donald Trump. How do you get the message out there? If you're the Democratic Party you know everyone's going to scatter the four To the four winds in and people are going to be with their families on Christmas and new years. And how do you. How out of you before before Mitch? McConnell manages to get that vote done. How do you get the word out in this environment on the short timeframe well? I don't really have an answer to that and I don't think anybody does right. I mean the information environment is really screwed up right now unless you're running official proceedings. You can't really get the sort of punch that you need..
"donald trump" Discussed on Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump
"We need to show that they can get things done in Washington but if you if you if you draw the like that like the fallacy is pretty obvious there right okay. So why don't they just pass everything that Donald Trump wants. It'll prove that they can get things done. Of course that means Donald Trump will become more popular and suddenly their ability to hold on to their districts. Democrats ability to hold the House Democrats ability to beat trump in the election and starts deteriorating right so like at some level down to how much of an emergency do you think we're in right and the frustration. Is that Pelosi and some of these other Democrats crats are not treating this like it's sufficient emergency right. It's an it is to my mind and emergency that overrides. All other policy goals right. We have eleven eleven months to decide whether we're going to continue to be a liberal democracy or not and whether or not you got a better deal in prescription drug prices the prescription drug prices are really important. But they're actually not as important as that. Yeah so I I actually think about this in almost the exact same way is that if Democrats rats are going to like cut if they're going to quote cut deals with trump They really ought to be a one shot deal. You're not gonNA have a second. The second chance to to get this done. That really advanced the ball on some progressive goal and They should also be issues issues. Sort of code as a Democratic Party issues so like I traced out a hypothetical that if trump were willing to pair a big minimum wage hike. Fifteen dollars minimum wage. Whatever in order to get this trade deal done like I'd probably get there? I think that that ends. You know you you get so much out of it that it might be worth it. And it's clear that trump gave some to get some and so it's not just a a straight victory for him but if you don't have that kind of You know situation at hand If the benefits are marginal or if you think that future Democratic president can do as well or better than you just don't do it right like this is not cutting the same trade deal with Mitt Romney it would be totally unremarkable of Democrats. were making this deal with Mitt Romney But in a world with democracy under threat and the US president is the single biggest part of that threat then handing him easily spun on victories. That validate key parts of his message. Seems like such an obvious mistake that I'm kind of stunned and I WANNA go back to this idea of despair that I was talking about about earlier because you know it's it's obviously not just me right. I mean I wrote this thing because I had this sort of ambien sense that it was happening The reaction to it was has got a ton of feedback from other people who are feeling the same thing. Recently I started reaching out to therapists to talk to them about what their patients are saying about trump I lasted this in the run up to the election I started talking to therapists about patients who had a lot of anxiety that trump would win the election. It's kind of heartbreaking. Because one way that they helped them manage that anxiety was to help them. See how unlikely that possibility was. She's obviously not possible anymore. Right so I've been talking to therapists pissed. You know in in blue parts of the country but who say that trump comes up in almost for some of them. Trump comes up in almost every session right and and I was just talking to somebody this morning. Who was telling me that She feels like people have moved from the state of hyper Hyper vigilance to a state of despair and that despair is I mean. It's dangerous for them but it's dangerous for all of us. We cannot ah go into election with are people feeling that By the way she was saying that some of the people that she treats they're having the hardest time with what's happening are are Holocaust survivors. And so I think that our people the people who are going to hopefully have a chance to save democracy In eleven months. They need to feel like they have a champion. They need to feel like there's somebody who recognizes the scale of the emergency who recognizes is. How terrified they are and who can stand up for them and inasmuch as we have everybody focused on this little tiny demographic slivers hours of these front-line districts? I don't think we have that and I think it's it's really really dangerous before wrapping it up. I did want to talk to little bit about the trial. What you anticipate it looking like stipulating that Sitting here we don't think that there's anywhere close to twenty the republican votes to remove him. What do you think it looks like? Are you concerned about these murmurings among moderate Democrats. They might prefer censure rather than impeachment. Of course I'm concerned terrified and I mean it's it's it's so self defeating it makes it makes my head want to explode. I mean I cannot fathom why they think that kind of getting to this point and then let essentially leading donald trump off the hook would be You know an a good idea not just for a good for the country but ultimately a good idea for them but the other thing that concerns me about the Senate trial With Bill Clinton's Senate trial. I think there was three witnesses called. I would be surprised if there's even that many I mean from what I've read there's you know there's trump who wants to turn it into a big circus and try to call hundred Biden and try to call all these other people in some sense. I feel like that would be the better situation for Democrats. Go find you call Hunter Biden but we're also calling Rudolph Giuliani and we're also calling. You know life partners and all these other figures a trial in which kind of nobody's but he's called and it's just kind of a bunch of Senate floor speeches seems really anticlimactic all right. Let's leave it there. Michelle Goldberg. Thanks for joining us. Thanks for having me. That's it for this week. By next week's episode. The impeachment of Donald Trump should be complete and we will be awaiting the trial of Donald Donald Trump in the United States senate. That trial probably won't begin until January But that doesn't mean everything will be on hold until then there's another transcript out there. The Democrats want to see this one between Ukrainian President Vladimir's Alinsky and vice president. Mike pence so the chase is on for that will also likely learn whether and when the supreme cream court will hear arguments over president. Trump's challenges to all these subpoenas of his financial records and one silver lining of a narrow impeachment investigation.
"donald trump" Discussed on Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump
"Some of you on this committee appear to believe Russia and its security services did not conduct campaign against our country and that perhaps Somehow for some reason you credit. This is a fictional narrative that has been perpetrated and propagated by Russian security services themselves. And there's a story about impeachment that goes like this. Democrats moved to impeach Donald Trump two months ago because unlike the Russia scandal the Ukraine scandal is simple easy for the public to understand if you've heard that story before you may have heard this one that actually there are no distinct Russia and Ukraine scandals. There's just one scandal through two weeks of impeachment hearings. We learned a lot about the Ukraine backstory. The hoops president trump and his subordinates jumped through before he hopped on the phone with his Ukrainian counterpart Vladimir Zelinski. And said. I would like you to do us a favor though but what the hearings left fairly murky is how and when trump came to view the allied government of Ukraine as a target for and partner in corruption. It's not as though trump had a normal relationship with Ukraine before he became nervous about the twenty twenty election and then pick Zelinski is name out of a hat to understand how we got here. We have to go back to the beginning long before Donald Trump became president. You were reportedly the closest political geyser American Political Adviser to victory on a coach of Ukraine. Frayne who is a close ally Vladimir Putin Russia. If you're listening I hope you're able to find the thirty thousand emails that are missing being. There's been some controversy about something in the Republican Party Platform. That essentially changed. The Republican Party's views when it comes to I Ukraine. How much influence did you have on changing that language? Sir I had none in fact I didn't even hear of it until after I convention was over. Where did it come from then because everybody on the platform committee had said it came from the trump campaign if not you and frankly that whole part of the world is a mess under Obama the people of Crimea me up from what I've heard would rather be with Russia than where they were? Let's talk about this new reporting from the New York Times this morning about Paul Manafort and his dealings in The Ukraine with Viktor Yanukovych. He was a consultant for Victor Yanukovych and apparently the times and investigators have gone back and found these handwritten ledgers breaking news. Here more changes at the very top of the trump campaign. I'm told that this morning. His Campaign Chairman Paul Manafort offered and Donald Trump accepted his resignation. Paul Manafort joined the trump campaign in March of twenty sixteen around the time. The campaign came came to learn that Russia intended to leak dirt had stolen from Democrats at the time. Manafort was deeply in debt to a modeling Russian billionaire named Oleg Der Pasta and yet he agreed to work for trump pro bono. By that point trump had already made a big bazaar showing his admiration for Vladimir Putin but Manafort's unexpected arrival on the scene brought someone who had been at the center of the struggle between Russia and the West over the future of Ukraine into the heart of the trump operation seven and he was firmly on Russia's side between trump's deference to Putin and Manafort's lasting influence trump's relationship with Ukraine crane has never really been on the level last year. The Ukrainian government froze all of its ongoing investigations of manafort including its cooperation. With special counsel. Counsel Robert Muller in an Echo of the current extortion scandal Ukraine took that action just as the US finalized the sale of Javelin missiles to strengthen Ukraine's hand in. It's hot war with Russia. The country's president time was pets report. SHANECO who was once a client of you guessed it Paul Manafort and pour a Shaneco who's going to manufacture dirt on trump's political enemies until he unexpectedly lost the presidency to an anti corruption. Political reformer named Vladimir's Alinsky Alinsky or consider the Russian conspiracy theories that Rudy Giuliani pedaled on trump's behalf about the Biden's and Ukrainian interference in the two thousand sixteen election election. The became the subject of the trump Zielinski call on July twenty fifth. Giuliani pluck those from Russian aligned. Ukrainian oligarch named Dmitri for Tush. who was once business partners with again Paul Manafort and where did for Tosh get those conspiracy theories we'll probably from any number of places but the vector who imported that disinformation into the United States needs no introduction metaphors former or deputy Rick Gates has testified that manafort began pushing it starting before the twenty sixteen election? So this question. Why did trump takes such a predatory Oy posture with the new government of Ukraine? The short answer is simple. He wanted to cheat in the election but why pick on Ukraine in the first place that is part of a much longer story. My guest. This week is frank four. He's written extensively about Manafort and Ukraine in the Atlantic Manic. We'll look back at the origins of the Ukraine scandal and how they disappear into a larger story of corruption Russian election interference and the two thousand sixteen election. I'm Brian Butler. And this is Rubicon. frank thanks for being here pleasure So for a while. Now I've thought that the best way to kind of place. The Ukraine scandal in the wider constellation of trump's corruption is to just try to answer the question. How did the Ukraine scandal start? Because when I tried to pinpoint an origin I realized that the DOTS actually extend way into the past and it didn't just begin at random in May of this year when trump I had a freak out about about his standing in the election and having to run against Joe Biden. So how is he as you understand it. Did the Ukraine scandals start so I go back to this core question that critics have always asked about Donald Trump which is is this guy vulnerable to foreign manipulation and and people ask that question because of the wide array of properties that he owned around the world and the way that his business interests were tangled up in places where you authoritarian governments who just weren't abiding by the same sorts standards that that we abide by it. So I think you kind of have to go go back and look at the long history of people from the former Soviet Union trying to manipulate trump in various area sorts of ways and some of the relation is is willing and trump is fully aware of. What's happened a lot of it is subconscious and I think when you have oligarchs from Russia or Ukraine they look at trump and they say oh? This guy is a totally familiar figure. We understand how his mind works. We understand how he can be. He can be influenced and so people were using various channels to try to to sway way Donald Trump. And you know I think the first time. We really started to acutely conceptualize what was happening. I think is with the Manafort Fort Scandal where you said. This guy came from came from Ukraine. He was working for the Pro Russian party. Why was he why did he descended on the trump campaign? But I look all the way through and I see I see you have oligarchs In Ukraine rain who have constantly been trying to figure out. What's the right channel? Is it the campaign chairman. Is it the personal lawyer They're hiring Fox. News commentators as their lawyers are getting columns placed in the hill by by columnist who they can pretty well be sure is going going to end up in Donald Trump's twitter feed and so there's also the sense of they know exactly how to rile him up. It's a look at that Ukraine scandal. You know the the the narrow question that shift is focus on is. was there a quid pro quo. Was He trying to extort Ukrainians wins in order to get dirt on his political opponent. But I look at it and I say if I look at the transcripts now look at the whole narrative of the scandal. I'd say the president was very actively in successfully manipulated by bad actors in this part of the world who who were very very successful in shifting the foreign policy of the United States to suit their aims. I'm glad you put it that way because you listeners. who heard the INTRO Will suspect that I think Paul Manafort is a big part of the origin story of the of Ukraine scandal. And I definitely believe that but there are these episodes is it. Don't quite fit the picture right like after After trump's been elected and MANAFORT's no longer in the in the middle of trump world. There's there's this story about this Ukraine peace plan right that that makes its way to Mike. Flynn who was then the national security adviser but it doesn't come from manafort directly comes uh-huh maybe not for Manafort at all. It comes from Michael Cohen and and Felix Seder. who were You know in league with the same same sort of shady people that you just described but on a sort of a different channel and even I wonder you know and I'm pretty pretty thick and all this like how critical critical Manafort is to the story. Because if you imagined he'd like never worked for trump Trump was still very much in Russia's debt When the election and ended He was singing Putin's praises long before Manafort joined the campaign. He was working on the Moscow. Tower project independently Manafort and and. It seems conceivable to me that we were always going to end up here. Because Russia help trump win and Russia's leverage over trump and so trump was going to side with the store corrupt factions actions in Ukraine rather than the pro-western reformers. No matter what I think. That's I think this would happen absent. Paul Manafort because you you have a lot of people in so I think that the the actually the crucial thing is the development of the relationship between Ukraine in the United States. It's and I'm just GONNA. I think this is a foreign policy story in addition to being a corruption story which is that Russia is a revolution in Ukraine in two thousand fourteen. The PRO Russian government. The Paul Manafort works for gets swept out of power they get replaced by By by a more liberal democratic regime albeit still oligarch kick and the United States starts spending a lot of money protecting Ukraine and that gives us leverage over Ukraine. So you have somebody. He like Ambassador Marie Ivanovich who's in Ukraine. All American ambassadors always wanted Ukraine to behave in a less corrupt sort of way they've always wanted presidents to challenge Ukraine's oligarchy system. But finally we had all this leverage over the government and the government starts taking actions to clean clean itself up and so you got a lot of oligarchs who were suddenly very much on the defensive. Paul Manafort's clients were on the defensive. You've Rudy Giuliani's kind of new clients and the people that he collaborated with in this extortion scheme were suddenly on the defensive and and so they needed to find a way to undermine the US embassy in Kiev and so they see that Donald Trump was a guy who they could manipulate into doing their bidding. They're and they're the way that they were able to entice. Donald trump to their side was to feed him a lot of bogus. This conspiracy theories that he bought into because they were They all adopted the kind of the memes of Donald Trump. They there were arguments about the deep state. They were arguments about how he was. His opponents. Were manipulating things that were arguments about. How Ukraine was the one manipulating the election? Not Russia and so they knew how they knew how to to to to to go him they knew his psyche..
"donald trump" Discussed on Rubicon: The Impeachment of Donald Trump
"Jurassic. We'll discuss the dots left unconnected by the impeachment been increased so far and what we risked by not connecting them. I'm Brian Butler Quinta Jurassic. Thanks for being here. Thanks for having me so I guess. Let's just start with your global assessment of the impeachment process as it stands in specifically what you thought when you read Gordon. Silence is opening statement and then he washed his hearing and all of the revelations that came out of that Schorr. Well I remember seeing someone roads In the morning before silence hearing that it wasn't going to be very notable unless he went full semi the ball. Sammy the bull vulgar. No the famous mafia figure who flips turned on the Mafia gave testimony against them. And I think it's fair to say that he went full Sammy the He really turned on a dime from what he'd said during his testimony which there plenty of questions about that but he was was incredibly damning what he said about the extent to which everyone was in the loop I think was the exact phrase and that really just knocks down defense after defense after defense the Republicans had been road testing. She wrote a piece for the Atlantic earlier. This month about how it's folly. To assume career government officials will save us from the threat the trump and his supporters pose to democracy and the piece itself off is about I about Robert Muller and later about the diplomats Who testified at the first impeachment? Hearings I wonder how Fiona Hill's testimony that that ended search just before we record this fits into your view of that so my argument and the piece was that the first two civil servants who testified instantly kind of became name of online George Kent had the bow tie. Hi Bill Taylor had this great Walter cronkite voice and they sort of came forward as the voices of almost authority from a different time I'm of you know America Apple Pie and that's really appealing right now. In a sort of the bleak period in which we're living and the danger is that those civil servants are not there to be heroes. They're there to do their jobs. which actually Taylor in Kent kept saying over and over again? You know. I'm I'm nonpartisan. I'm telling you what I know. I've been called to testify and I felt it was my duty. I don't WanNa be here with Fiona Hill. She's a little bit differently differently. Situated than Kent in that she's technically was a political appointee in this administration but I think she does speak to that kind of ethos of public public service in the in the way that she was testifying and in the same way as you saw Taylor can't allow a lot of people right now. Said you know Fiona Hill Forever Fianna Hell Fan the club. You know I've been self you and a hill twenty twenty. It's like no there. Yeah right she unfortunately cannot run for president And there's a similar dynamic. There is the one that I I saw with Kenton Taylor. To that Fiona Hills job was to work in the National Security Council in Europe and Russia matters and her job now as she sees it as clearly to come before Congress and tell Congress what she knows she kept emphasizing again and again. I'm a fact witness. This is my purpose but she's not going to ride in and save the day and what I mean by that specifically is that she's actually she's she's been an incredible witness Just in terms of I mean her own performance. He's given these amazing speeches but however many speeches she gives they're not going to break through to the gym Jordan's of the world and so does it help the Democrats and the impeachment. The effort that they have this amazing witness Fiona Hill that she tells a clear story that matches up with everyone else's strobe -solutely but it's not going to solve the problem that you know at the end of the day Jim Jordan and Devin nunes are still going to be up there yelling about the steele dossier. So I've been struck a few times as the impeachment process. This is unfolded by so the flip side of this like th. They don't have a magic ability to convince Jim Jordan and they might not even feel like It it's their role all to involve themselves beyond whatever legal obligation to Congress is by how this process has revealed. How these conspiracies can fester and develop even as people of genuine integrity witness them unfolding get folded into them and they're still kind of no way for them to to do what we might imagine? The heroic thing is right like I think a Bill Taylor first and foremost in this. Because he knew something was up and he could resign Zayn and he could have blown the whistle but he worked through proper channels to try to stop the conspiracy from taking effect and he tried to help the people of Ukraine and yet from from his perspective. He prevailed right like the. The Republicans are so fond of noting that quid pro quo was never fully consummated and having succeeded why would he then speak up. Lose his post throw the Ukrainians that he clearly cares about to the very wolves he just save. Save Them From and so if it hadn't been for the impeachment process I don't think he would've ever said anything about this and then separately. There's this really dramatic matic testimony from Fiona Hill that we clipped played in the intro. A big part of what I think she was talking about. There was perception right from her perspective. There was this sort of wrong but limited meddling happening in Ukraine policy but then from Gordon silence perspective he was just carrying out policy what he believed the US policy to be and so the whole notion of conspiracy is kind of the wrong language for either of them to describe what's happening and so there's nothing thank really for either of them to do to alert the public right and so it's not just the bureaucrats can't save us because they can convince the broader public or they can't Stop Stop Republicans From acting in their own political interests but they can't save us because sometimes they just can't see that there's anything to save us from they have equities to protect attacked or they're just kind of in the fog of it and blind to all the dimensions of what they're living room. Does that make sense. I think the the best example of someone who's who's struck in the fog seems to have been Kurt Volker and in saying this I'm drawing not only on Volker's own testimony which seemed to me like he may have I've been trying to intentionally obfuscate his understanding of what was going on but The testimony of others including can't Ann Taylor who kind of indicated that they felt Volker may have been drawn a little too far in that. They didn't question his motives but that he was thinking a little too much. Sort of tactically step-by-step. How do I mitigate harm and that lost the sense of when you take a step back? This is really something wrong. That's happening and in that way. Volker is actually a really good example I think of the sort of the corruption of Donald Trump right the the way that people kind of get sucked in and and lose their perspective regarding the other people involved. Here you know Taylor Kent Hill would. Would we be hearing from any of these people. If the whistle blower complaint hadn't been filed. I don't know and I agree. It's a really disturbing bring thought not only because you know how many other instances have there been where a whistleblower complaint wasn't filed and we didn't find out what happened vend but also because I think it goes back to the same issue with Volker. You know this is a case study of how difficult it is has to be a moral person and serve your country which all these people really do seem to have that. We're doing under incredibly difficult. Circumstances in a government run by someone who's actively trying to undermine you they're all these people trying to do the right thing and some of them have even come out of it looking good and at the end of the day. There's just this lurking question of did they let themselves has get drawn into far. I mean we we can zoom back. To other controversies other officials. Who we were told were the adults in the room who were trying to keep trump on the rails keep policy in order in in many cases? It seems like what that ended up forcing them to do was try to cram a corrupt endeavor into a facially legitimate government action try to find a legal pretext text for it. Try to find a policy rationale for it that could be explained to Congress to the public to themselves probably as you know maybe not ideal policy and maybe not wise but acceptable within you know with you know on the rails in some sense and then they leave and we never get the full story because you know either they succeeded in cramming trump's corrupt objectives into whoa facially non-corrupt box in a bail or the try to stop it and they resign and they go back to their private lives and in almost all these cases with like like the one big exception being Jim Komi we just never hear from Jim. Mattis former defense secretary from DNA Powell former deputy national security adviser iser nature. mcmasters another good example of this and it makes me really worry about what happens on the flip side of this impeachment process is that we're going to go back to that. And trump is going to be at the apex of his corruption because he's going to have survived the one confrontation over it. The Democrats were willing to bring against the question should Democrats wrap this impeachment up without making some kind of maybe time-limited but serious effort to compel testimony from the principals. I suppose right. The bureaucrats won't save us with any of the political appointees. Have the information that's needed. If not to remove Donald Trump then to strip away the legitimacy from the things he might do as he abuses his power going forward. So I think that the clear implication of Hill's testimony is that John Bolton knew a lot more about what was happening in real time than she did and he tried to shield the National Security Council from it and Democrats haven't even issued him a subpoena. Is that a mistake Bolton. I don't understand what Game Baltin is playing to be completely honest with you. I mean it really seems like he can't decide Reid who he wants to go to the prom with he he kind of you know. He says he doesn't WanNa testify and then he dangles you know. Well I have all this information that I could give you sort of one step forward one step back so I'm going to be completely honest. I have no idea what game he is playing. I agree with you. That based on Hill's testimony it seems like he has a lot to say. Based on the testimony of two Morrison Hill. Successor is seems like he has a lot to say because Morrison Morrison was an incredibly frustrating witness. Not even talking about the public airing but just by his deposition. If you read the transcript. He basically says John Bolton you know went into this room and had this conversation and then he came out and he's asked what did he say to you and he basically Gli says I don't want to talk about that over and over again and so we get these kind of hints that John Bolton must have known more and must have. You've done more without that ever actually being fleshed out soon away..