20 Episode results for "Dominic Robb"
Who is running the government?
"Coffeehouse shots is sponsored by. Look forward the podcast from Rathbun's what the future might look like find out more at rathbone. Look FORWARD DOT COM COFFEEHOUSE. Show but he has daily politics podcast. I'm Katie Bells and joined by Fraser Nelson and James. Besides the prime minister is in hospital. We don't know if he is going to stay there overnight but he has not left yet and Dominic Robb who sent to field questions today at the daily press conference the de facto. Deputy said that the public should not be concerned at the prime minister's absence because he was still leading but in the QNA. It became clear that they haven't actually spoken for two days. James what she was the main takeaway from the press conference of it is very hard to look beyond the fact that Dominic Robb and Boris. Johnson haven't spoken since Saturday now. It was a slightly odd choice of words. Dominic robb which did leave open. They might be communicating by some other means and they might be you know what apple snapchat or whatever but it's quite home as it stands to square statement of how the government say the country is being run because Gohmert rob took the kind of key morning in avars meeting today in the provinces absence if the prime minister is running the country from his hospital bed as Danny Street insist you would think that would have spoken to dominate rob off the bat morning meetings to check on progress on various things. So I've been through is going to raise eyebrows about. Who's really holding the Fort while the Providence Hospital? How much is the prime minister working from hospital? The telling listening to how they talked by the promises. How but no one was to give out his return from hospital. So I think I think as you say catering fair assumption that the providence. We'll be spending another night in hospital phase it. It's the situation. Sustainable cloudy today and he look at the questions and the Q. and A. and lots of them focused on. How can Boris Johnson be in hospital and not and say he's still leading the country and it seems as though the fact that Dominic Robb is the one standing in for Boris Johnson? The morning meeting yet has an seemingly spoke to him though as you say could be some other form of communication. It just didn't come up. That's just going to intensify. The pressure rate for the current arrangement is to yes. It certainly. Is You get the rather clear impression now? But there is confusion over who governs. When the prime minister doesn't but Dominic Robb is supposed to be number. Ten isn't as comfortable isn't so comfortable that relationship that border and actually speaking to each other on Sunday or indeed today. Now we were told you earlier. Boorda's read. Books is going off to his hospital bed so it's not as if he's incapacitated certainly able to have a phone call with a guy who supposedly running the country so this suggests either the. Boras is trying to govern through his proxies in number ten right now and dealing with them rather than sitting Dominic Robb or this new one person really in charge. I'm beginning to put my money on the latter right now. Actually because we've had another day of quite alarming disclosures. I mean first of all we'd heard a few days ago. That these that the antigen tests and to see people have covert or way behind the government schedule. Now we hear that the antibody tests to find out who has had it are also at least a month away now as of a tests which professor new Ferguson from Imperial College was telling us. We're days away recently. So that is quite a major setback. Actually because a lot of people putting their faith in these antibody tests to finally solve the mystery of how many people have got couvert and Britain. If we're at least a month away because we haven't managed to get with tech right. Then that really is quite alarming is not beyond the widow of man to make proper antigen tests if you look at Stanford University. They've actually got fifteen thousand engine tests which they bought from China a few days ago. They did the field work last week. They're expecting results next week. If the university campus can get these antigen tests up and running. I didn't see wind. The British government's can't so for me. It was another dip quarter learning and disclosures about the ability to try to get to cripple the response to this crisis. James Dominic ROBB didn't seem too keen to talk about his contact with lack thereof reverse Johnson. But he was also tight-lipped when it came to an exit strategy. He's suggested that the focus right now it was on protecting the NHS on safety and suppression strategy. The government's conducting is tenable so the all union government is if you start him on exit strategy from these measures. Now you will lead to people being less inclined to obey the social distancing rules because they will think they're gonNA come to an end. I think that doesn't take into sufficient account. That business needs some clarity about when this might end on not I think one of the dangers right now is if situations going to go on for ages. I think quite a few business owners will simply close business down and wait until the economy comes back before trying to start something else up if that happens. The scarring on the economy will be greater and the ignorant recovery will will be going to move from from the government's hope of it being a V. Two more like an L. and I think that is the danger if you don't give people any sense of one this is going to end it saps business confidence. I was getting people to observe Social distancing rules. I think in some ways people know that it isn't going to go on forever. It might actually be easier to get them to follow it but to come out to what Fraser was saying. I think one of the problems at the moment is lots on the ways. You might get out of this. Lock down the medical ways. I was locked down that just not coming at speed now. In some ways we have to be realistic about. This is a new virus but the antibody tests. We don't have one that works. We can't yet know whether in crude terms imperial Oxford or write about how many how because obviously if overhaul population is already had this disease. Then has big policy ramifications. Vaccines still seems to be away away. Some way of treating people so they do not need having to go on a ventilator again seems a way away so I think that it's difficult. One big thing to watch today is the Australia has announced plans to. And it's a knockdown now Australia and the UK are obviously not the same. But I think if you see the Austrian manages to lift its lockdown without getting a second wave of infections. And the moment. The public is in favour of lockdown. And if anything seems to be in favor of tougher but I think if Australia is to get out of the lockdown at the end of this month without a second wave of infections you hear people beginning today if vacant do it. Why can't we phrase the Chief Medical Officer? Chris Witty did seem to Hinton his answers today that when it comes to ending the lockdown there clearly lots of factors but it isn't just about the number of corona virus cases and the NHS. He said that you had to look at the general socio economic impact and also patients who are missing out on treatment potentially because of Corona virus. So it could be potentially even with antibody has which we now expecting for some time. The government could eventually come to the conclusion that it just cannot. Keep a lock down indefinitely for those reasons. It was certainly seeing a shift in the language in a couple of weeks ago. There wasn't much talk about the consequences of lock down. The overall impending was okay. Here's imperial college with the model shows. Any chase is going to be inundated overwhelmed with couvert cases. Celestial look down and let's build capacity now. We hear a very different tone from Chris Witty. He was actually asking the press conference. If you can get numbers. Roughly what proportion of intensive care unit beds are being used. How much headroom is he got? I was rather disappointed that he didn't answer that question. Which is a shame because I think people do deserve to know in Sweden for example the daily press conference people ask because all the time and the Swedes. Make a point of telling people there because the country deserves to just how close the health services to capacity the answer. Sweden that is about quarter of the intensive care beds are used the expert not to go up. We don't know this figure. In Britain the government doesn't share it with us and I think that will have to change. I think the government will have to be a bit more transparent and because if there is headroom and quit Chris Witty for the first time sanders quite relaxed about the notion of there. Not being overwhelmed. I mean after all got the Nightingale Center. They've gotten you end. Centers being built in Manchester and Birmingham Cardiff. So it does seem as if in each has can cope now. He's loving himself to talk about those whose health is being impacted by the way the NFL says is in crisis mode. We knew that there will be people right now. For example will feel a lump but won't get it checked out a possible cancer because they think health services endanger that will down the road leads to a loss of lives and a loss of public health. So there are two sides to the health equation. Yes you can help patients but in doing so you displace and a lot of healthcare. You deprive a lot of people who need some mental health patients for example of CARE. They need and at some point. You've got to do the sums entity the balance so. I hope that sooner rather than later Chris Witty will start to let us know where that balance lies and finally James wanted the rest of the week. We know. That's not GonNa be cabinet tomorrow at. Do you think that's anything to do with the Boris Johnson is absent in in some ways at Easter? Is it just that? We are now in recess and the focus and weather. Real action is ultimately the morning meeting and the subcommittees on the corona virus response. Yeah we are in recess. So the president doesn't Damone. It'd be a cabinet. I think violates. Boris Johnson's absence obviously complicates things. I've number ten on very touchy about things that confirm or is the prime minister's absence and I think it would safe assumption that you would not be chairing that cabinet meeting from zoom in Thomas's hospital so I ki- on that I also in in in some way as you say Caterina's you've written cabinet isn't the real fulcrum of events in responding to this crisis right now. I think that one thing we are going to see which is the big question is does Easter Sunday. And this week is that the beginning of the peak as government SOC- into expect. And then you know. How long does it go on for? And how quickly we begin to see a decline in the number of daily deaths. Because I mean frankly always talk about coming out of a lockdown. I doing is going to be any public. Appetite for that unto cle- assignment as a ton in the numbers so. I think that's what we can of wait to see and finally kissed has been putting the finishing touches to his shadow cabinet on top of my senior appointments yesterday which Lisa Nandy appointed foreign secretary analyst also shadow chancellor. We've had some junior appointments. Today and Edmund is back James Choose I mean intensive Edmund Events appointment and what is the general flavor of the shadow cabinet kissed? Allah has compiled. So I think the game is trying to create a common in his own image so it's kind of competence and unity. So if you look at the bigger points announced I Allen Dodds Rachel Ries the trauma. Simon's these are all people designed to look not associated in particular haunt in particular faction within the Party and also people can have regarded as being kind of across the detail is here so I think you see him. Trying to create a Shari Kamina emphasizes. Those strengths of his return is interesting. There's always the element of of a normal actual milestone. Which is when you got a former leader to come back into your shower cabinet. It suggests that kind of seriousness about power. When David Cameron Got William Hague to return to a Tory Shadow? Cabinet in two thousand five. It was a symbol. Vox The tourists. You actually get into power again. I think that kids on hoping to admit abandoning. That job sends out a similar message. I think you also see. They're very keen to present themselves as a responsible opposition. Here trying to be constructive with the government on Corona Virus. But normally they WANNA is a big moment for new leader. Why does obviously if accused Armagh in has been completely overshadowed today by corona virus and the news about the promises half I think it milligrams a rare example of a party leader who is actually enhanced his reputation since leaving the job he sidestepped to who coordinates tobacco and the ad quite popular podcast and he actually has been proven right on quite a lot of issues. He was mocked twenty fifteen for saying that he lost the election but won the argument. But then he saw theresa may twenty seventeen raid a whole bunch of his policies for her manifesto are remember. When Theresa may ran into a seventeen spectator. Did it from cover of her next to Ed. Miliband ed stone and such was the intellectual debt she owed him so after all this he kind of does deserve a bit of a comeback. And it's also strange to say that's the only three weeks ago the Tories would have thought it was almost impossible to imagine that they would be worried about what a labor from Benge would look like the events of last three or four weeks have certainly called into question the conservatives ability to handle a crisis I mean. Nobody handles these things brilliantly but right now it's not impossible. Jim Cessnas brilliant political in this week to envisage circumstances where the Conservatives emerged quite badly from handling not so much the corona virus. But what's likely to follow if they can get economy back up and running embrace progressive policies. There's going to be economic aftershock. That will make the next election quite tough for the Tories. So I think that cure starmer and his Mila bandmates deitz shadow cabinet really. Do hold play for. Thank you phrases. Thank you James. And if you'd like to find out more by its members of kiss Tom. New Shadow cabinet. These Nandy is shadow foreign secretary emini shouted International Trade Secretary and both recently appeared on women balls. Mary interviewed them. And you can find all the gossip you'd like to listen to the at. Www DOT SPECTATOR DAKOTA AK forward Slash Bulls? Coffeehouse shots is sponsored by the rathbone. Look forward. Podcast joined the world's leading thinkers writers and scientists discussing the future of our ever changing world in the latest episode historian. Tom Holland talks broadcaster Andrea Catherwood on the future of morality find out more at wrath bones. 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All aboard the Boris Express - Politics Weekly podcast
"The. The god. This is politics weekly. I'm just gal. Refined a leader who can beat Jeremy Kuban and deliver a sensible Rex it fights off the threat from the insurgent Brexit party. And I have to say that, that is a the job that I believe I'm best suited to do today. Bus Johnson came out fighting yesterday to finally launch his bid the next prime minister as the field of candidates narrows impulsion way out in front can anything derail the bars express. Also this week, we'll be looking at whether any of the contenders promises on Brexit tax cuts, and the economy actually stuck up past all in this week's politics weekly. It was standing remain the at the Notre Johnson's leadership bid yesterday with hard Brexit is and conservative rising stars. All that show support with maybe an on the job in the next cabinet at the time of recording. We don't know who hasn't who hasn't got the sixteen th needs to stay on the list of contenders. But we can probably see in that Johnson Dominic Robb, Jeremy hunt, Michael Savage, avid, and Matt Hancock all on there at the moment. The contest is bosses to lose. Is he really the best man for the job or anything? Well, I'm joined to discuss all this by Isabel Harbin, from the spectator Jonathan list from British influence and politics from the guardian. How do you think the boss when yesterday sort of emerge unscathed sufficiently boring enough? Well, that was certainly a was to make it doll safety, I, which is really the, the theme of borstal since campaign when he's allowed out to speak. The aim is basically to try to make him look a bit more serious politician. And so, in terms of his speech, and in terms of I think the way he answered the questions will didn't answer them in loss of cases. I think his team would have been quite pleased with that. There was one thing that, that over-shadowed it bit thing, which was that some MP's as she heckled journalist for asking Johnson, a very reasonable question about his comments about walking women who were berkers, and it's often the case activists from parties. Get annoyed with journalists for us dear leader inconvenient questions, but it's still quite unusual for MP's to do that. And I'm not God load of welfare candidate. It's very badly for. Candidate. It makes them look defensive as they call something to hide and what I thought made it. Worse was Liz trust. One of Boris Johnson supporters that went on TV to defend her colleagues heckling saying that they were entitled to question the questions of journalists, which, I think it would be much easier. Just to say, I think some of my colleagues over excited here can also himself, the, the idea of being PM. I've been laughed at a few months ago, and an and I think that probably we thought that his colleagues had lost trusted him toy MP's lost trust in him. Particularly his performances foreign secretary. Why are they running behind? This is being quite extraordinary. It's the conservative party completely losing any sense of responsibility for the fate of the nation, the party that used to be the solid, the reliable, the party of government has become wild reckless revolutionary because they think he is the only person who might. Squeak past in general election, and save them from both thorough and from Corbin unsaved, their seats and save that party. He might on the other hand be the final explosive device that blows the whole thing apart. It might be that he is so poorly that if he really does take us out of Europe. Ota no deal that the conservative party makes it self unelectable forever afterwards because of the self inflicted chaos caused, but they reckon that as things stand, he might save them this eat a very low reason choosy. He seems to have been. Doesn't. He seems to have been concentrating quite a lot on just on just securing the backing of MP's announcing a thing you know, particularly controversial into things. I think a tax cut and also that he would leave with thirty. I is just him kind of keeping things. Very simple. As best route to success is only seem sort of the moment. If you all the kind of the pole position candidate of your day you won't have any controversy under Johnson is famous for that. And so he's, he's just letting the ship go on. If you like Theresa May to the Cima thing in a way in two thousand sixteen. When she just washed everyone else, self combustion. She was the last person standing there. The problem for Johnson is that he's told the truth extraordinarily when he said that the tour spaced extinction, if it didn't liver Brexit both thirty Tober there is no way on earth. They can deliver Brexit thirty post Tober. There are a couple of weeks parliamentary time after the summer recess where nothing can be done sell you that can. No more renegotiation, and no more led to legislation. And so he's already made a rod for his own back, that the first thing he'll have to do is prime minister is go to the EU and asked to stay in it. So already the trust will be will we smash I can't understand why the Tories don't understand that. And conversely, if you did try to get that no deal. As police said, if you actually went over the cliff, and then Boris Johnson would never be forgiven out the toys, wouldn't either and then parliament, probably humiliates him and try to stop it anyway. So there's really no way through him that he can emerge from this with any kind of credibility whatsoever. Smell somebody other candidates have tried to gain a bit of credibility people like Jamie hunt, and my ankle by saying, actually it's very difficult to leave with no deal deal no deal by thirty because his Dunton's laid out. You know, it's difficult to negotiate in that anything new in that time. And also because parliament is like to stop an ideal Brexit. Do any of those candidates avenue chance of beating him when it comes to the runoff thinking people? Turn me on all the sausage avid month ago. Jeremy hunt or such genital Mike who gave the most light, he might Hancock, he mentioned, this is probably going to get knocked out, either in this round or the next one because he just doesn't have enough of a constituency within the conservative party and his pitch. We went to his launch on Monday, his pitch was slightly crazed or have. Difficult to sort of pinned on what he believed other than motivational aphorisms. I felt like I was spinning class well to relationship. The other say are trying to sort of offer a bit more realistic Brexit plan. And that's tricky in the current Tory party, because the mood in the party is not really one for any further delay. They're still reacting to the procrastination of Theresa May. I'm perhaps, not looking at the situation that she's left the party. And in trying to work out the best way out of that they just don't want anyone who's going to put it off any more, and that's why Boris Johnson. Dominic Robb were the only two candidates who even got auditions before the European research group, which is the, the most Brexit he group in, in the conservative party, and has a huge amount of power, not just in the parliament party. But also, I think amongst the conservative membership. So it's tricky, because I think there is Brexit. Purity contest going on at the moment that doesn't bear a great deal of relation to reality of those putty of, of Michael Savage. Avid, Jeremy hunter DC is having the most. Likelihood of beating Johnson, what I suppose it would be go, if he can recover from the ca- Cain hypocrisy, which really sunk him oughta rolls astonishing. But maybe he can be forgiven in which case he's much the strongest contender. He knows burst back front if he really decides to put the knife in again, as he did last time he could be very effective when one of the candidates, not really talking about a tool anymore. She was quite strangest Dominic Robb. Who did you know sort of seen as maybe he could be the true Brexit tier candidate when Boris you know, it folded early than him said he was gonna vote trees may deal. But he's lost all of that year. G support to Boris what he used on the sue the winner under Johnson is going to match rob pound for pound in Brexit. Then those no reasons about rob who is much less sympathetic charming character. You have question marks over his personal character, which haven't quite been addressed. And who is has the kind of eight. Tori. Boy thing about him bay, which is going to not be particular turn, onto the tweet party was certainly not to the wider electric. Yes. So that's always don't since we've not now all the space is really ain't rob is also tainted, his, he didn't leave the cabinet obviously, after the check is agreement that was Boris, who did that? And, and Boris Johnson is therefore able to, to claim that he is more Brexit Pierce. We come back to this incredible sort of holy Brexit. Contest is going on the Johnson survived. The backstop no one's talking about the box December. Twenty seventeen Theresa May sign us up to customs union a great time. Johnson was he knew what it was. And then after extraordinarily when he left the company said he didn't know what it was. So he was basically saying that he was the gullible stupid or liar. I didn't seem to matter because he's tashaun. It's fascinating how there's actually a higher bar for the behavior of all the other candidates part from Boris. Johnson is something his team say the whole, always purse. Life is priced in. It's almost as though he could actually have killed people. And that would also trunks shooting Fifth Avenue, the front runners who've said that they are the two, I suppose we, if we still count rob amongst the front runners that they've said that we prepared to take the UK out of the EU with no deal on October thirty first Burston Dominic Robb, the others of, of sort of said that they think it's possible that parliament would be up to stop that. But we saw yesterday at there was an opportunity for parliament to set in motion for that to be another to at least reserve another date to try and pass a law to stop it. And Isabel some people listening and probably anyone who's not been following this with the minute detail of a full-time job gonna find it quite quoted to hear that it was defeated last night, feels like parliament's voted against no deal. Quite a few times, and what can you maybe you could explain to me about what happened last night? Here's those interesting topics going on last night. You had a group of conservative MPC voted with labour on this vote, which was to allow Paul. Lament to rule out no deal in future vote just to complicating confuse matters even further. But then you had a group of labor MP's, who voted with the government people like katoey, who obviously, managed to enrage their policy on, on regular basis, with their with that Brexit views, and you also had a number of ubstantially as well. And so this is turned the labor party in on itself again, with the very pro remain pro second referendum, anti no do, and, like, Ben Bradshaw, friends since turning on their colleagues and saying how much they've let the party downs. We, we've got another labor split here. This is a big boost to those candidates. He believe parliament actually won't stop new deal. I suppose it is if, if there is a mechanism for stopping teaches clear what that make an ISM could be done that all of the people like all of let win been out this morning that the Taurean peon and the former Tory bowl saying that this was the last chance, there are no more assigned opposition day debates. Which the government has to grant, but in power to grant labor time to have debates on things where they want, but those, those days of now, run out, and there's also no obvious legislation going through parliament for for amendments to be attitude that could stop no deal. So what is the root pop from a confidence vote without is the nuclear button, the confidence. But I think that we need to look at John berko hear abo- cove is cost himself as some kind of maverick revolutionary when it sees him, and he is prepared to cost aside, conventions and rewrite the rulebook. I mean, I'm not an expert in, in three parliamentary etiquette and protocol. So I don't know exactly how much power he has. But it seems that he can rewrite us in may sort of as he goes along. So if he decides if parliament has a will, to introduce legislation, very quickly as cupid early this year, and they all given an opportunity to vote for that. I just can't see any way which was say no. The procedure says, unfortunately, what happened last night is that. Parliament decided not to have the opportunity, it'll make it very difficult. I think for berko to devise anything also you're asking him to do something way out of anything he's done so far. I think we're going to end up with whether there will be enough conservative MP's willing to bring the house down willing to have a virtual no-confidence in what who will presumably be Boris MP appear them and a call for general election. And I just don't know when it comes to it, whether the likes of people who have very anti Brexit, whether they'll really go that for what do you think is about? Do you think enough of them to actually agree with? That would be if you get government. And then in the confidence that you lose it. Yeah, I think that is your way basically saying, I've it with the conservative party who knows that things are quite Phibro at the moment till they, there is less of a thirst for leaving parties given. What's happened to change? You K because I think that stuff Shane, how difficult it is to, to go to loan from a big structure this being rumbling along for many decades labor LaTour. He's, I suppose we can, we also have to see what happens over the course the leadership contest. If Boris Johnson has heart and his position over summer to try and win over very hard. Brexit. Selectric una comes parliament is still sitting at the end of July, when he's elected then that could be the moment where his colleagues, Dominic grieve just in greening, maybe say in office enough. You're going to take on the touch toba. We know having it. And then you trigger that election, when there's still time to stop no deal. Three months later, but they will not be allowed to stand as conservative. I mean that only. Seats are there enough of them, we don't sacrifice their careers for the sake of the country? And that's what it'll come to possibly. There are enough noble minded people willing to do that. I mean, I guess one of the things that we haven't touched on his whether it's it is possible for any of these candidates to get any kind of new deal bioterr- thirty. I, I mean, we of laughing about that. But if it comes to the crunch, d think that there are people who maybe didn't believe Theresa May was prepared to take that with no deal. But may believe that someone I on snus. Well, this is the line that the sort of the Boris style candidates of news, the European Union, saying they're not going to reopen the withdrawal agreement, they're not going to start renegotiating any way. They say will they would say that wouldn't they that's kind of, you know, they're starting line in the Goshi -ation, and perhaps studies, the stance, the European Union, that will then fold when suddenly this new powerful conservative leader comes in, but even. The leadership candidates who claim they're trying to be more realistic like Jeremy hunt, for instance, still saying they want to reopen the withdrawal agreement. So all of them are prompting something that according to what has been said, so far is not realistic. How would it look from Europe? The EU is tied to these games it's actually written into the extension that you can't renegotiate withdrawal agreements that is put, so the box office and changing the only thing in might be able to. And this is a purse is to renegotiate a political declaration, which isn't going to be enough, because it has no legal way. But more importantly, there are only two things you can do the political declaration, the first is to soften it. So you explicitly asked to negotiate accustomed on a single market, which is obviously not help any, the Tories or you hard in it in the pad on the backstop, just Northern Ireland and not cleaves the concert. India's partying one clean slice. So there's nothing that they can do, which will help them tool on the backstop is simply not of negotiation. It's only use political interest to sacrifice its. Leverage for a prime minister. He hates them and the feelings mutual. Thanks willie. Back after this. Stopping Jewish turn something. It's time to focus. I think ultimately that ideology feeding for it will have a sting in the tail. We see that sometimes with these flare ups and violence today in focus is the new daily podcast from the guardian. Join me a niche, Donna for the best stories from our journalists around the world. Subscribe now today in focus from the guardian. Welcome back now. Not content with doing their best to out Brexit, one, another, the tour leadership rivals have been seeking to pick up votes by announcing a series of increasingly unlikely tax cuts never mind that public services is struggling to cope after decade of a sturdy the candidates tax cuts would cost more than sixty billion a year between them. We're joined by the guardians economics correspondent, which parted to tell us how, and if any of these ideas stuck up. So I I on said he wants to raise a higher rate income tax to eighty thousand pounds from fifty thousand pounds, what would that cost? It's it feels up certainly tone deaf. Really? I mean, it's an absolute gift for labor strategies because they're going to be looking now, if there was to be an election in the autumn between labor in the conservatives that this is a gift for the headline writers. This looks like the conservatives promising tax cuts for the rich in terms of the cost to the treasury be about ten billion pounds after a decade of star. Not public services squeezed in your immediate spending priorities to give ten billion pounds away to hire own. It doesn't really feel as though it makes much political sense. The resolution foundation did some analysis and found that about eighty percent of the highest owning households would be the ones that would benefit most from this type of tax cut. So it feels quite a strange moment to come out with that as your, your leading message. Why what do you think he's done it? What's, what's that? What he will resonate with. I think. Especially conservative. Repealing to in this in this contest after all, the selector that would pick the new leader. Perhaps, this is the type of red meat that conservatives like to hear from from their leaders that is lower taxes. Aspirational taxes is quite interesting, though. I read something day, saying that conservative selectric conservative party members that not even all of then would benefit from this type of tax break for, you know, fifty thousand raising the pressure to eighty thousand that's the top three million earners. And we have a workforce of about thirty two and a half million. It's really the, the quite top-end average wages in the country about twenty six thousand pounds. So it's, it's more of a sort of offer to the aspirated, all conservatives who feel this is something that everybody could achieve. Yeah. That's what one at some of his team will say they'll say that something like and fifty thousand pounds or the lowest one day aspire to earn something like fifty thousand wears eighty thousand pounds just seems beyond. That's that's. The real wealthy in statistics bad out, as saying, I think that the, you know, this is the top three million of earners in the country and labor stands in, in contrast to this, and saying that they would keep taxes, steady about ninety five percent of the population, and that's up to an eighty thousand pound threshold, and therefore in a straight fight between the conservatives and labour. This is a message that you would think that the majority of the public would back. But, but sometimes people feel as, though that they, they could reach that bracket one day, and therefore they liked to have that type of opportunity open to the future, and believe that they deserve that type of reward should they have worked hard enough, but it's, it's a difficult sell. I would have thought in this current climate the polling is showing that the public are increasingly in favor of higher taxes. If it means greater spending on public services after decade of Stati element of fatigue, and feeling really should be taxes are going in higher direction. In future, really? And to keep tax cuts for the wealthy, we've got the former torture Bank employees, touch, Javid, who famously I think, to ninety five percent pay cut to become an MP. He wants to scrap the forty five percent tax plan, incomes above one hundred and fifty thousand is that I mean presume that puts in a similar places. What does that ghost? Absolutely. I mean at Nova large tax break haven't got the figuring frontages moment, but it's, it's a part of that cumulative, sixty billion pounds that was offered between Boris Johnson. Dominic Robb side Javid, and Michael go for their for their various pledges in a strange tax commitment to be making a gain at this time such Javid said that he is a low tax kind of person again, this is appealing to the conservative base. I think he also said that the would be tax cuts for those on lower incomes, as well. But it's sort of an again, a strange message to say that this is the right moment for for, for juicing taxes. Georgia. Born used to make an argument that tax cuts at the very top rate for the dishes Reiter of income when it was fifty percent, put up there by darling after the financial crisis when Osborne reduced it to forty five percent. He said that, that would actually gain more income for the exchequer, because people would more likely to pay their taxes. What the evidence showed was that wasn't increase income of about eight billion pounds, but it was from people deferring their tax payments to take advantage of the cut. It wasn't as though there was a magical certain increase in the amount of activity at the top of the economy that brought in this additional income. The big ideas, I wanted to talk about my Michael Cavs is to replace VAT, which I think is quite popular. Tax VAT kind of you simpler, lower US style sales tax. Can you tell us a little bit about that? What would that do in how much did it cost for starters? If you if you're campaigning on a on a policy that sounds won- kissers, scrapping VAT. You're not really in the right. So the place I mean, this is sort of looking at an incredibly nerdy, proposition to remove eighty in place, it with US style sales tax things. One hundred sixty colonies around the world badgley, use the system. The reason why the United States doesn't is that taxes are set on a state level. It's incredibly complicated to have a VAT system across all of those states, but in the UK again, it would cost billions of pounds to change such a system throw the revenue service into into disarray as they try and come to terms with making these adjustments. There are some devils in this detail. As well in that VAT has elements that mean it doesn't apply to, to certain goods, such as food clothes for children. And with sales tax could be concerned that the taxes levied across the board. If he's talking about simple sales tax. You would imagine it for it to work. It would need to apply to everything, and that could be very unpopular with voters if they were to see the prices of food and children's closed rising as a consequence. The other one is, is made of attack pledges Jeremy hunt and slashing corporation tax and from nineteen th central point five seven wants it to be one of the lowest in in developed countries. And what, what are we make that again? It, it doesn't feel like chimes with, with the current political climate. Maybe I'm getting it will wrong but what would be the reasoning behind that seems a stranger I suppose the argument that you could make potentially to play devil's advocate. Is that after a hard Brexit, if Jeremy hunt was to redouble his Brexit's credentials, not they have them to begin with? But if he was to try and. Posture about hard brags that he could say that I would stimulate the economy by cutting corporation tax down to the levels used an island, which were amongst the lowest in the world. I mean, besides tax havens in the Caribbean, the tax rate in Ireland at twelve and a half percent is the lowest in advanced economies to do that. He would hope that companies would invest more money and pay their workers, higher wages and increase their activity levels in the UK. Choose to operate in the UK in the event of a no deal Brexit. However, the U K already has one of the lowest corporation tax rates in the it's nine hundred ten set to drop down to seventeen percent under the conservatives plans. It was twenty eight percent when labour left office in two thousand ten but over that time period, the tax receipts have increased, but the economy has strengthened. But what we really looking for from corporation, tax cuts is greater levels of business investment in the UK economy business. Vestment in the UK lags behind over major countries. And we have this single the productivity puzzle in the country, where the technology gains that should deliver greater increases in efficiency in the workforce in the economy of not come over the past decade, people's wages are still below where they were before the financial crisis. Well, so, so I'm both those fronts. The tax cuts for businesses appear, not to really have delivered the supposed- gains that we, we would want to see from them, probably retell tell story to is over, and it seems to be if, if we're making these sort of big spending tax cut promises. But do you think any of these really gonna chime with the electorate, I think they're not sick gift to the labor part. We're going to have an election this year, which we might well, all of these will come back to haunt them even if they decide that's not what they really want to do. Their instincts are always cutting taxes for the better off an even when they pretend to produce cuts that look if there for the lower. Paid when they raised the tax racial, the bottom, it was shown time and time again that nearly all of the benefit went to people in the top half of earnings. So sometimes, even things look, if they're going to help poor don't people know, whether conservatives hearts is, and these types, cut me show, it, I think it's extraordinary. How tenure they become but then they are away with the fairies on almost every level on almost every subject minute. People talk about the end of territory. They think more money public services than think more tax cuts for the rich and also, not the seems to be this. I think it's Boris Johnson. He said that they want to use Philip Hammonds fiscal headroom, MRIs put it which some of us thought might be needed for other economic events that may may or may not happen over the next year or say, does it feel strange to be talking about this. When, when it's, you know, when we, we may be heading for no deal Brexit, which could really make huge difference economy. Absolutely with through the looking glass. We are having a conversation, which we would have had it any time in the last forty years about tax and spend conservatives being low tax austerity in the last survey for ten years, or so, when we standing on the edge of the Grand Canyon. And we don't know if a when we're going to fall off the edge of it. So it's quite surreal. Of course, we need to explore this. But it's poly says, everything the conservative party's doing is deluded right now, the raise on debt of the party is to make us all poorer in potentially quite obscene way. And so it's almost comical to take them seriously. In some other area of economy, when Brexit is going to change and transform our economic life for generations, which it is that, right? Is it is it difficult to kind of try and make these pledges? When we don't know what state, the treasury might be in. Absolutely. I mean, Philip Hammond, the voice of reason in this conversation, which is, which is quite strange, sometimes, but he. He saying things as though you know, you don't know what you're facing. So how can you make these, these tax cuts in this moment in time, where you don't know how the economy's going to perform? If you've got to know deal Brexit Bank of England warns that could have an immediate recession worse than the financial crisis. I mean that's going to damage the public finances. No end not sure how you can promise to, to increase the tax threshold for the higher owners without saying how you're going to fund that type of pledge in, in such an environment. Okay. Thanks, everyone. Well that's what we have time for this week. My thanks to all our guests Isabel hardman Jonathan list, Richard Partington, and politics. The producer Simon Barnard. I'm Jessica L got thanks for listening. For mobile put costs from the guardian just go to the guardian dot com slash costs.
UK Urges Nigerian Government To Urgently Investigate Brutality
"The affiliate podcast shows the stories of multifaceted Africans, one episode at a time, the podcast aims to uncover the untold stories of modern and millennial applicants based in various parts of the world. Each episode gives listeners an opportunity to learn and experience conversations that showcase who they are and global perspectives in our ever changing world fish also listen and subscribe to the Athlete podcast on spotify or wherever you listen to your favorite podcast. You can also follow at athletes podcast on all social media platforms. You're listening to the news of this hour on. Africa. Business Radio. Foreign Secretary of Dominic Robb on Wednesday said that he was deeply concerned are the recent garlands and Andrea and reports of civilian debts and called an end to the violence. He said in a statement that an entre governments must urgently investigate reports of baton ity as a hand after security forces and hold those responsible to account the shooting Juwan spread international condemnation with U. N. High Commissioner of Human Rights Michelle. Charlotte. Saying reports suggested it's good have been premeditated. And that was the news at this time on Africa Business Radio you can continue to listen live online at www dot Africa business radio dot com or arnold will APP. I'm Rachel chih-jen. Thank you for listening.
The Evening Briefing: Friday, October 30
"Hello I'm Chris Price with the briefing from the Telegraph. It's Friday October thirtieth and England's ready for tearful. He may have seen pictures of reveiz enjoying a final night out before Nottingham was plunged into tier three lockdown. Now, the former Secretary Dominic Robb warned, there may be even tougher measures to come. He says, Tier Four lockdowns won't be ruled out. He added the government's ready to impose tough restrictions. You can meet a summary of what the rules would be. Of course, France entered its second national lockdown overnight and unprecedented images show four, hundred, thirty miles worth of tailbacks in and around the ill France region. That was just a few hours before national down came into effect you can watch overhead footage as Parisian's tried to avoid having to stay at home in the capital. Many of you will be able to picture the site of be styles don't sing after. England won the World Cup in one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, six, his family's announced the tough tackling midfielder has died at the age of seventy eight after a long illness stalls was also part of the Manchester United team that became the first English side to win the European Cup, and he was credited with playing a key role in neutralizing the threat of Portuguese style Eusebio in the World Cup semifinal, you can re tributes to the England and united hero and read his Telegraph Obituary. And this story is enough to make you shutter a man was trapped in a hole teaming with rats for half an hour after a New York City pavement collapsed underneath him Leonard Shoulders dropped almost fifteen feet into the sinkhole but he was unable to cry for help out of fear the rats would get into his mouth. He was hospitalized with a broken leg and arm in the incident you can watch the moment the pavement collapsed. Before the weekend, here's a couple more things you might like, Jamie carragher exclusive interview with F. l.. Chairman Rick Perry on project big picture, and at power reviews the first episode of series. Two of the men delorean at says you're up to date Danny will have next briefing on Monday morning.
Coronavirus latest: Boris Johnson in hospital, a route for our lockdown and Keir Starmers first week
"Welcome to F t politics a wiki discussion on what's happening in Westminster from the Financial Times. I'm sebastian pain in this week's episode discussing the latest in the corona virus crisis including the health of Boris Johnson who in intensive care from the illness who is taking his place in Downing Street and how the government is being run in his absence. Wall Street digging into the continued questions about the lockdown when it will end how the UK will exit the stringent social distancing. Meshes when and how decisions will be made plus. We'll be looking at kissed almost first week as leader of the Labour Party has new shadow cabinet the outreach to the Jewish community this decision to Panish most co-produces from the front line of the party to be joined remotely of course bio additive. George Parker calmest shrimps unpolitical correspond Louvre. Hughes thank you all for joining if you find his likeness episode of politics than do subscribe to all the usual chance to receive it every Saturday morning. And thank you very much for sticking with us through these unusual times we hope the quality is listenable. The main story this week of course has been about Boris Johnson. The Prime Minister for the last eleven days. He's been in self isolation after being TESTED POSITIVE FOR CORONA VIRUS. As far as we will add. The premise had mild symptoms of the disease and he continued to work in his flat in number eleven Downing Street. But you're seeing a couple of tweets videos and even popping out onto Downing Street to clap for the two days in a row but all that changed last Sunday when the prime minister was admitted. Thomas Hospital in London after twenty four hours condition deteriorated and he was then moved to intensive care what he remains at the time of recording. George Parker June. The time that Boeing Johnson wasn't self-isolation as far as we knew it was very much business as normal. He wasn't appealing. The Dow Street press conferences. But he was working even though some people in down as you do say his workload was lighter but all that changed last weekend I think you have to draw the conclusion that number ten. We're not being entirely frank about the prime minister's condition during the nine days before he went into hospital as you say they said he was displaying mild symptoms but they just it was business as normally it was working from his Downing Street flat but subsequent. We heard that as you say. He was on lighter Gypsies. The might have been expected. And then of course the bombshell on Sunday evening Iguanas hospital and then even greater shock the following day the ECON into intensive care. I think at that time there was a real mood of foreboding in number ten the quick turn of events and the fact that someone they regarded their leader but also someone who was such a force of nature had been taken into hospital being laid low in this way and the diseases as we know can progress very quickly and the the puck was intensive care within twenty four hours in hospital took everyone by surprise the more recent news as we speak at least as the prime minister is now sitting up in bed engaging with medical staff and his condition appears to be improving rather than deteriorating which is obviously great news because low accused of. Is this question about how much down? Didn't say about the Prime Minister's health on the one hand you could say that it is his pliva health and they don't they don't oblige us anything on the other hand. In retrospect it doesn't look as if they were entirely truthful because to go into hospital and then to go into intensive cat twin falls late. It does suggest the Mr Johnson was quite a lot more ill from Cologne of is that had been clearly said. Yeah and it's also possible. They that Boris Johnson himself was putting on a brave face and keep going on as long as he possibly could probably felt that. You know really. It's his job to manage this so you could understand situation where he sort of catch sang that he was all right and wanted to manage the show but eventually when he spoke to his doctors that they have to progress things quite quickly and everything moved at a pace it hap- himself could never have anticipated. So I imagine that that might be an element. That's me being giving that but also I much number ten wanted to balance telling the public what was going on with us but also trying not to create a sense of panic because I think everyone was really quite fluid by the move that happened so quickly to intensive cat this is somebody that everybody knows and recognizes and for a lot of people would have been the first time they actually knew someone. That had responded in this way. And he's not that old. He's in his mid fifties. So I think it was a shock but retrospectively looking back at this It did feel as though we were being told that he was absolutely find for perhaps longer than he was. Because Shimmy of the folks that I spoke to in government in Downing Street this week. They were supplied as anybody else that I think that. The prime minister's vary inner circle anyone's really aware of his medical condition. Most people in Downing Street you know beat on the policy side the press side all the dates they operational side. They weren't highly was because he just been trying to get on with it and get through it. Some ministers have set in five. It's really he should have taken more time out to focus on his recovery because You know it's obviously developed into a very serious situation here. Yes I think that's right. Although the one thing we do have to remember. Is that the nature of this disease is that it can turn very fiercely very very quickly so people can seem all right and then only a few hours later. Go quite remarkably downhill. So it is possible for downing knowing exactly to have been lying about his condition but to have been looking on the bright side more than they they should have been. I think with hindsight it looks very clear that he also was trying to create a sense that he was still in control all the time that he was running the country and up to running the government through this crisis. When as you say it might well have been more prudent to step back quicker. Take two or three days to see if he beat this virus and then return with renewed strength but then again since we really don't understand this virus that well yet it's entirely possible that it would have had the same impact on him regardless of what he did absolutely now. Of course Georgia follow. Mister Johnson's moved to hospital and particularly to intensive care on Monday. This being questions of is that something of power vacuum because as I said early typically for the British constitution is no real full pokes as for what happens. If the prime minister's incapacitated we dug into this and read the last two examples. This were held McMillan who was taken for prostate operation out of Downing Street in the sixties and Anthony Eden who had something of a breakdown during the mid nineteen fifty s very different times. Different levels of media scrutiny Just before Mr Johnson went into intensive cash he handed over the reins to dominate Robson. He could deputise wet necessarily but really he's seems to be the de facto acting prime minister for the moment even if he doesn't have the full authority in the full range of powers the premise that normally does have yes when we will know the British constitution is notoriously opaque but also has the advantage of being quite flexible and in this case the power invested in dominant route really comes directly from the fact that the prime minister from his hospital bed said I want Dominic Robb to do this now given the fact that the promise is just a very large electoral mandate Gatti's quite popular and there's a lot of personal sympathy for I think that invest quite a lot of authority in Dominic Robb at least for the meantime for short periods of time certainly for guests a matter of weeks necessary. But I'm the persecution the power of the prime minister it was Boris Johnson derived from the cabinet. The cabinet is ready. The decision making body system site provided Dominic Robb keeps the cabinet together keeps cabinet backing of and he's way to ensure the covenant that he will be taking decisions on the basis of collective responsibility that I think it is sustainable for wild. But of course there is a vacuum. We know that physical building number ten now stripped off the prime minister. The Prime Minister's chief advisor Cummings his chief of staff. Eddie listed rebelled listeners. North Dallas three other. He's working from home. We think about these cycle the head of the cabinets this surgery the chief civil servant in the building itself so clearly there is a vacuum one. Blessing US I. Is that a lot of the decisions relating to you. The lockdown relating to the economic response have been taken but soon not not too many days ahead of us. They're gonNA have to start taking big decisions. How leave town not spent donate Rodway? Really touched his love of. What do you make this potential plus of a power vacuum in Downing Street? Because as Joel said there's a lot of people physically missing that but some cabinet ministers. We've talked to this week of said. Well you know the the POW. The prime minister is political impractical political. Said that he has the authority over the Conservative Party in the House of Commons. We don't know if dominic law passed off because it's never been tested and it probably won't be tested because parliament's not sitting at the moment on tiny she when it's going to come back then. The practical Powell is commanding. The civil service. Not His the fact that the Queen's lead the government and therefore the machinery of the state is behind them. It seems at the moment we've got this delicate balancing act with dominic robb having the practical power given to him by the plummets with George Disciples. The five mark set will eat staff and trying to keep things moving on but the only real challenge fused. It'll come when a big policy has to be made because the whole direction of the Cologne of our strategy has been set by Mister Johnson before he went into hospital says no immediate need to change that but if it does need to change that's when it starts to get difficult. Yes I think that's exactly right. It's the obvious place for problems. Because he's been given a presiding role rather than the power. What power he has comes from. Boris Johnson gave it to him And as you say until a major policy decision has to be made it perfectly reasonable to think the cabinet and the four key figures in the cabinet in this crisis can work things out between them. They also know that nobody gonNA appetite. And nobody's going to thank for intriguing infighting. Well Boris Johnson is away and that it will reflect very very badly on them. So I think there'll be a desire to be careful and be collegiate but the first point when there's a major policy divide. The person in charge would have to do to kate. Say between the Treasury and the Department of Health about the degree of lockdown or equally if there's a desire to bring somebody else into the inner circle because you feel they could add something we talk. Neither of a minister being made directly responsible for testing again or could do that immediately with the click of his fingers. Dominic Robb would struggle to do that and we have to get full collegiate support from the rest of the cabinet. We know there has been infighting so I think it's very very difficult. It's not and long-term sustainable position and it's also the case that it certainly questionable with a dominant role would emerge as the figure who replaced. Boris Johnson if it was necessary to do so it in in in a temporary but for a longer period of time so he doesn't have that much authority at the moment and he's going to have to tread very carefully but equally those around him are also going to have to tread very carefully. Get the blame for adding to the scale of the crisis and George has been enlarged discussion about this quad. That has emerged. This week of full ministers who in the absence of Mister Johnson are overseeing? Things of Mr Vargas will member. The other is the chancellor she soon the Health Secretary Matt Hancock. A Michael over the Cabinet Office minister. They've all been quite central to the government's KUNA virus preparations that will park nine. Fifteen wall cabinet meeting. That happens every morning. It's Mr Bob is chairing. And they're obviously the most plummeted into powerful people in this government. The challenges thou splits within that quote. Because as Robert was just saying that. You've got the one hand we she soon knock. Who's being for the Treasury who've always got five is on money and how they're going to continue financing these very expensive economic packages on the other hand. You've got my Hancock. Who's primarily concerned with making the health service survives? And he's GonNa want the lockdown for example which will come onto moment to as long as possible and then you've got Michael Go. Who Does what Michael Go does which is to keep the wheels of government turning while also post the interests of Mr Gov. Well yes the win. Their tensions there inevitably there attention's being the treasury and the Department of Health and in a way that's how good government works. People were sending different interests but nevertheless there's an inherent tension there. We hear there's tension between Mr Governments to handcuff. You both have kind of joint responsibility for the practical response to kind of arson getting equipment into the right place at the right time. And they've been some tensions there but generally speaking to members of the cabinet outside of that quarter AIDS but they seem think this nine fifteen meeting covert nineteen committee referring to that is functioning recently well. The minutes are distributed around the cabinet. People are kept abreast of. What's going on so I think provides on it rob houses. Well Mexico's. The wider comment is involved. I think it's a sustainable thing and I think also frankly any minister. He thinks it's a good idea to rock the Basal personal ambitions at the time when the prime minister intensive care would be diesel. Incredibly stupid race in terms of the country. Then sends back Chris Careers absolutely. Now let's come onto the lockdown which is coming up. It's three week when you were just after the Easter weekend. And what's the sense way getting or is it going to be renewed? Is it going to be ended? And what's the thinking inside government because at the moment it doesn't really seem to feel as if there's a clear strategy to get the UK out these very stringent measures. No and Neil Ferguson from Imperial Hugh Israeli advising the government gave a fascinating interview with Colleague Fifty Alphaville. He basically admitted there isn't a strategy at the moment and that continuing to look at the science and follow the examples of other countries but roughly. We know that it is it is about doing a lot more testing and potentially using technology. We know that the thinking maybe about letting young people out fast back into the economy's they can get working because a they all least likely to pick up creative ours and be the ones who are economically suffering the most amendment. But we have this sort of three week deadline coming up that the prime minister promised and there will be a decision that has to be made as to whether or not we extend the lockdown. But I mean I would be willing to bet a lot of money. This three week lockdown is going to be extended to be for another three weeks and then again reviewed or even longer. We've already had the study speaking on Thursday morning. Sort of preempting. What the government might decide saying that you know. We're starting to see these measures. What so now is not the time to end this. And that's a meeting of Cobra. Fesday began where it was still not really expecting an official announcement to be made until next week. Instead we're GONNA see the advertising campaign PR campaign by the government urging begging pleading with people to stay at home over a very sunny east bank holiday weekend which is going to be very difficult but the message is going to be the starting to work. Stay at home and wait for an announcement next week which it is highly likely that this is going to carry on for another few weeks potentially even an extra month though too because Robert it feels quite ultimately even talking out the lockdown ending. You know I spoke to own cabinet minister this week. You said they were amazed at how successful Sabine. Because if we recall when Boris Johnson initially requested people to stay at home not go to pubs. Restaurants people didn't take much notice than the publicist said. Okay you now have to do this. I did not sort of British sense of just getting on with it. That's what people have done. And by every metric the lockdown and the social distancing happiness success. It has flattened Based on what we've heard from the scientists so far but we're still not at the peak of this outbreak yet. There was talk. It might be this weekend is now took. The peak is going to be at some point into next week if ECON even talk about losing the lockdown until you get past that crucial moment when cases and deaths of reached the highest levels. I think that's absolutely right. And I think the government knew even when it put the three weeks review date on the original lockdown the chance of lifting it in three weeks. We're very slight but I think they were concerned to give people a sense of a moment when it might end even if they didn't really believe it would happen As you said the country has been large accepted and bought into this it believes in it and I think people scared of this forest one aspect of Boris trump's. Being hit so badly with it is it is brought home to lots of people that this really isn't something that only affects the old and the unwell. Anybody can get on the wrong side of it so I think that in that respect has made it clear people. This is not a joke. That's something that has to be taken very seriously in. The lockdown is to be observed as you say. There's no chance for being lifted early next week. Not least because the government hasn't yet really articulate they clear strategy for how would go about lifting it and what are the parameters and what are the different stages of it and I think the first when we all know that it's a serious possibility is when they start saying these are the points will be looking for to lift it to bit here. The if this happens we can easy to be. They're going to be a one day with all the doors fly open. Everything is back to normal. I think it will be staggered over. The course of time as the peak is pulsed Jones. One indication that we've had this week has been schools. Maybe some could re open. I within government at schools in the construction industry. All that prime you talk here and it feels like there's been some talk of could they do it region by region but that doesn't exactly go with the whole governments leveling up approach which is still. I guess economic strategy after this crisis but by look at certain sectors fifty thousand while we might be looking in terms of how the lockdown could be lifted when they look at it which feels based on the conversations. This week is going to be more towards the beginning of May in the middle of April lockdown is in place long as saying for a few weeks to come for sure. And there's a feeling in Downing Street that the public don't even really want to talk about coming out of the lockdown is quite interesting. Psychology of the country seems to be that they fully bought into the idea that we need to stay indoors. We need to protect the NHS. And they think it's almost distasteful. Talk about anything else when the country still facing this emergency so as a result of these discussions are taking place behind closed doors and in ministerial committees but the three ways out of the lockdown that are being considered involve number one population in other words cancer. Demographic groups like the younger people. You mentioned that. Could they be allowed back into the workforce I then there's a question about sectors can some sectors like manufacturing light construction lead? The way out of this is quite interesting this week. The album of business secretary issued guidance. To say look you don't have to strictly observe the two separation rule You should try to you can't you? Can't carry a working to make sure you wash your hands and face to face contact. You can say the government. They're trying to be bit more flexible. And the third option that looking at the idea of geographical location different regions. She say up until now. They've tried to the UK wide basis. So I think demographic sexual approach will probably be the heart of this but then of course we get much questionable how you company that with testing and getting the testing capacity upscale vital as we start to ease the lowdown willow testing is obviously your favorite topic to fight about. Where are we testing at the moment? Because we've got this huge hundred thousand tests By the end of April this week it's been gradually rising a little bit but we're still nowhere near that big number. That was promised by Hancock last week. Now it's still sort of hovering around the fifteen thousand tests a day mock. Interestingly an American company was talking this morning and saying that it was realistic for the government to start one hundred thousand tests a day that they would be able to supply them and they made the point that they actually had all the reagents that you would need to make these testing quit kits and they hadn't been impacted by the global shortages instead. They were hinting that it was a lab capacity in the UK that was actually slowing things down. And that's something. The government seems to still be working on. But you know when you when you look at the fact that there are sixty five ish million people in country even doing hundred thousand tests today me means that we could be testing people to up to twenty months before where all done. It's still not completely clear. May exactly how this is GonNa Progress. How they're going to build on the numbers. All we gang to see mass community testing. Could it be devolved again? Could it be restricted? Just to different areas where we think that there might be peaks of the virus popping up again still an HSA walk his on not getting the tests that they need on a daily basis and the government know that they are on the huge amounts of pressure head. Because if you do look at what. Other countries around the world A- doing they are doing mass testing on it boss. Gallon. It really is a big part of their strategy. Interestingly Chris Witty the chief medical officer in a press conference this week was the first. Hasn't to admit that we all looking at Germany who are doing fifty thousand tests today on. We're trying to learn from them. And I think that gives us a little indication of the fact that we all moving to ramping up testing and we know that that is what we have to do but but still not quite the infrastructure that for us to be able to deliver it and finally for a different topic now. Labor Party Kissed. Alma was elected as leader of the opposition as expected Lhasa. And he's moved quite swiftly to distancing south from the leadership of Jeremy Corbyn. There was a big cave out from the shadow cabinet and several other key moves. Lotions electric's just begin with the shadow cabinet. That was so much speculation about who might be caught by who might not be ruled by how leftover would feel. What's your feeling of the new team that kissed almost together which will include some names that I imagine. A lot of listeners will never have heard of. Yeah that's absolutely right in most obvious. Women's Emily's Dole Tuesday new shadow chancellor who? I don't think we'll be well known outside of Westminster. I think the general tone of the shadow cabinet that kissed. Armagh has created is. It's one that's attempting to be unified and unified by not having in the most obviously factional people from any side of the party. So you're absolutely right. He cleared out almost all of the coordinates. All Kobe Defenders John McDonnell and Diane. Abbott said they were going to stand it any way he'd be cleared up in lavery Richard Bergen Dawn Butler almost all the people who Jeremy Corbyn trusted to go on television and defend him all the ones who've gone But he's also not found room and some people were surprised for some of the people on the Sablan Brown eyes side of the Policy. Be Just Phillips who had a tilted the leadership more long-serving figures like Cooper? And Hilary. Benn. He's very much what might call a. Miller bandaged team including bringing back at Melbourne as spokesman on the environment business. So He's gone for that sort of soft left not both rocking team. Hopefully a more competent group wanting to remember about a lot of the people in the shadow cabinet. Jeremy Corbyn is. They weren't that good aside from couple of figures like John McDonnell and maybe kissed on himself. You had a group. People who were solid and qualify. Who really weren't very good. So I think the first thing he wanted to do was simply restore level of competence and ability to his top team. The kind of people can hold what is essentially still a very green government to account. Because George when you look at it really I think it's hard sandals but it was clear out of carbonates that people like Richard Burgin. Barry Gardner it will gone from the shadow cabinet but then also shameless man. Who Was Joe? Coleman's closest adviser an SUV strategy media. He's also gone as well and it. Looks Very Mississippi. Kissed on is trying to draw a line between the COBANIJA and his EVA. Yeah I think that's definitely true. They was a it was a couple of the corporates without shoved without so they kissed on the clearly. WanNa make a break with what's going on. In the last four years I think one consolation to people on the left of the Labour party is that he didn't accompany the coal with a return to the new labor. I think some of the permanent people the the Blair Brown era weren't brought back in say went for a kind of soft left lineup. A bit more like the approach to the doctor between ten and twenty fifteen or maybe something more like a neil style. I think he's is quite a cover. We should not censor. They've exist unfactual. He's tried spring through viewpoint. My call clean skins people already. Well known your Westminster even Westminster's be frank and as much as team and there are no big figures there. The talked challenge cares Thomas Authority so I think we'll see this rebate very much kissed. Almas image is an lower fund. The other thing that kissed almost done as to have a big reach out to the Jewish community the Anti Semitism has been one of those public parts of Germany Corbin's leadership and he never really got to grips with it but just three days in to his leadership kissed on Tacos as head on how to virtual meeting with an key figures from the. Uk's juicy mainstream figures. We should say and avid sponsors. He's on more than four days. And Jeremy Corbyn didn't four years. Yeah I mean it was an extraordinary response. Actually that statement. They put out really denying having a pulp. One more time at Jeremy Corbyn who saw his whole premiership dogged by allegations of antisemitism and at the heart of this is really that the party's response to allegations that were made to Jewish groups saying that they want being dealt with responded to you quickly and accusing Jeremy himself of making inappropriate comments over the last few years. I'm won't kiss Which I think was really well received as he's promised an independent complaint system for processing paints. He said that all the policy staff again to have training and he's also promised to cooperate with this investigation which is being carried out by Britain's he human rights watchdog looking at whether or not. The party did respond to allegations in a suitable way. He said that all pending an ongoing investigations needed to be on his desk next week. And he's really trying to shift the tone stock new chapter on clear up. What has been just a really messy messy couple of years and yeah I think it shows. He's serious and actually after Rice about this issue for very long time because these incidences all all to be dealt with properly and the jesuits he again to fail like the party is once and for all actually listening actually taking these allegations seriously and hopefully. This'll sort of bring an end to it. Unfunny very briefly Robert what kissed almost had some conversations with Boris Johnson about attending meetings. And hearing what's going on with the Colonia virus crisis this perspective governor of nothing unity is read its head with a new poll showing the over sixty percent of Britain's support that do you think there's any prospect that and do you think is the approach right with the government in the crisis. Well I certainly didn't think there was any prospect of it before Boris Johnson was taken ill. Because I don't actually see a real need for win. Not a traditional wool where it shows the enemy. The whole country stands united. The government has the numbers to get his legislation through. It doesn't need the extra votes in parliament and they've actually use as we can see having a constructive but questioning opposition briefed in able to understand what's going on but also able to raise issues so in general. My instincts has been that. It's not been necessary to have a government of national unity of course if the prime minister's incapacity for a very long time that is the one thing that could change the calculation on that and I think were to become something that was offered lay policy would find it very difficult to refuse to participate but at the moment. I still don't see why we have to go not for this week's episode of F. T. Politics thank you very much as ever to George and author joining us in the meantime if you'd like what you've heard might see some more. F. T. journalism and do take a look at all ages subscription office which you can find F. T. dot com boys offer plenty of all Colona. Virus Journalism is also free to read. If you'd like the articles we've discussed F. T. Politics was presented by me Sebastian. Pain and produced by data until next time. Thanks for listening. Keep safe and keep well.
Boris Johnson smashes first ballot - will his rivals drop out?
"Unwelcomed coffee. House shows spectators daily politics. I'm Cindy, and I'm joined by Isabel hardman Katie booze. We've just had the first members ballots from the conservative leadership contest and Bros, jobs and top the poll with a whopping one hundred and fourteen votes. Jamie hunt came in second place, but only on forty three votes. Mark, hopper Andrey lesson. An estimate they were all knocked out, Katie you in the room when the result was called. What was the reaction like say it was a nine hundred twenty two committee nights and the result and sit in a room off the committee corrigo, and I would say when the results was called you did sense. It was a slight surprise in the rape that Boris Johnson had got such a high margin of the vote, and one hundred and fourteen MP's now, the magic number that an MP needs to inferior get to the final one hundred and five once you have one hundred and five it seems that even if you have a spot in the final t does doesn't guarantee the Bros. Johnson is in the final burst. Johnson is very keen to press the fact that this is still. Ongoing. They not going to take anything for granted. But it does mean that I think increasing his looking rather unassailable, and if you add up to Hugh, once a mathematics, what the different of candidate Scott Dominic Robb, Jeremy hunt. Michael Burs got more than them, combine gives you a sense of how far ahead he is. And this is, of course, the group, he's supposed to be the least popular where he's more part with the grassroots. And yet, he is ahead. And the parliamentary party is about one person who wasn't surprised shown himself, Ye right in on coffee house today that they calculated it to the last vote that it was one hundred fourteen that he would get. Yes. So there was a prediction that was developed by grant shops. He's doing the data for Boris Johnson, and he wrote the number in an envelope, which he sealed before the resultant handed to Johnson and told him to open after it's hot, one hundred and fourteen on the house of cards. Isn't it what it is? But it also shows that, that this is a completely different campaign to the one that Johnson. Ron in twenty sixteen. This is really data intensive, there's a spreadsheet that's been running for about three months that all borstal says handlers and whips have been feeding information into on on hourly basis about where each MP in the conservative party is in terms of their thoughts on Boyce. Johnson Ethel's when other leadership candidates. And the reason this spreadsheet is is useful. Not just for this ramp of the next few years. The Boris Johnson campaign. No, where people likely to go next from candidates who've been knocked out or candidates who are weaker. So if you see people, for instance, penal from the such avid campaign, the boys Johnson team have probably got the best prediction of whether people are going to go, so they have quite a good predictor a few Johnson's going to face in the final two that's really slick campaign. Katie. Do you think that is now going to be pressure? When expedited contest mean, do other people even stand chance, where just drop out and let him win to be honest? I think it debate is going to be had about this, because all. Argument goes that degree versions, myspace, fee least popular is the parliamentary party for the reasons just outlined his, but that is clearly not working out with some had predicted. I think he's really benefit from having for example, Gavin Williamson, the former chief whip on his campaign team. Now, if Bush Johnson keeps up such large lead, and then made it to the final t I think there'd be some including Bush, supporters, he would make the argument that why waste time they would say, by having the hustings going around speaking to members when borsch is often seen as the grassroots favorite anyway. And if you have to expedite the contest that would give the new prime minister more time to try to negotiate with Brussels, and perhaps even speed to e just before they go on holiday. I think they'll be of an upper low at this was actually happened because lots of people point to what happened to resume and the twenty sixteen leadership contest, and they say that what the problem was is that she was never tested in the way of giving the grassroots essay. And she was never tested by doing, these hustings addicting. It would be an easy south. But I do think if it keeps up in this kind of sense that this argument will be add more because of the tight timeframe in terms of the Brexit deadlines, and the article fifty extension, so as well, could anything go room? Full Burs Johnson between now and the final ballots, and if they watch it would have to be pretty spectacular. We're talking something that goes far beyond any of the rows that he's hot over the past few years. He's got is interesting because there is a much higher bath for the other candidates in this context in terms of acceptable behaviour than there is for boys don'ts, and he can say, unpleasant, things that people find very offensive within the party. If you talk to his team, they'll always say, always personal life is priced in say the so often that you think could he kill someone and not be priced in as well how, how sort of low how high can he go? But I think really what anyone who doesn't want to Boris Johnson? Premiership should probably be focusing on from now on is stop Boris with the membership because you're not gonna stop and getting into the final Tae. He could stop himself, getting into the final to buy something catastrophic. But it's much more effective to start sowing doubts in conservative members minds about his ability to be prime minister thus still going to be incredibly hardly. And Katie would is this result meaningful at the second person to go through to the final two as Jeremy hunt. Oh, Michael go, f- such Javid. So I think it's been disappointing result probably for every cabinet candidate and away. Jeremy hunt had imagines week as the person he was getting an edge of Michael, and he has if you look at the numbers it's just a very slight edge dating cliff from the figures that Jeremy hunt is the cliff Everett you dig at the Michael gave is still hang on in there. I think such Javed's numbers he managed to get just over Matt Hancock, which I think is what he needed to do. But eating when now gonna see. These candidates coming onto pressure to consider well they want to continue in this race. And we talk about an expedited leisure contest one way to make it quicker. But be to have candidates. You don't seem as they have much chance to step aside. So you need to have less runs coming up. I think so far, we've cleared in, I suppose you would expect this in lots of fighting tweets saying that they plan to go on Dominic Robb. He only managed rates in the twenties said that he will continue. But I do think that, that will be Prussian on figures like Dominic Robb to think about folding it's interesting because for some of them they see staying in the contest. And I mean, this is probably an insight into where, where they are mentally, they see staying in the contest is being Judy because it keeps the debate open and stops even if it's a final two goes to the to the membership. Quicko the keeps the stops it from being coronation. And do you think we can we'll see more effort now to have an anyone but Boris candidate? I mean surely, that's the one of the ways of stopping him is if all the cabinet contenders joined him behind one person. I think that rests than being to decide amongst that candidate is, and that would mean putting personal ambitions visions aside, which probably means it's likely to happen anytime soon. And again, I think had Jeremy hunt such had been considerably and pats had ten MP lead on Michael g-o-v. You could see how they could make that argument. But I think it is just quite close. So I can see why both camps think that they have skin in the game from the Michael grove campus. Back to they manage to do that, after not bad few day. So they that is not the way perhaps, now they can build it back and get head of Jeremy hunt. Again. So but we still have Modrow pads to come and I think particularly Dominic Robb before, say Rohan behind Boris and got this Braxton candidate and as well. Between now. L and choose as vote, what could change candidates change their minds about dropping out change camps is yet. As Katie said the pressure, there is going to be a lot of pressure on them. I think what's going to be really interesting is not just who from the McVeigh Harper led some camps goes way. But whether cancer able to secure defections, is what I think they'll be as interested in that is anything else who they get the most defections from likely to be such Javid, and Dominic Robb. And Casey, one of the other surprises for today's I ROY stood as she go through even s McVay and lender. Let's macabre heavens. We prize about ROY Stewart, sir success today. I think that of the candidates who was the least likely old that not the serious. Contenders rooster has had the most impressive campaign because he has had cut for on me spoken by many times on this poll cost in our voice juice section. If his multiple walks various areas. So I think is infused jazz meant the it did seem as he might get in the anti even had a couple of votes to spare. I think he look, he's we knocked on their any great surprises there. Andrea, let's new struggling, I think her team did think that looks at the support she hadn't twenty sixteen but still hold it. Clearly wasn't the case. Mark harper. I think has failed to really make too much noise in this competition and estimate bay. How did very clear pitch, but by having such a clear pitch had quite a narrow audience of in the conservative party. There was also an organization problem as well. You had McVay still finding up people who were known to be working with all the campaigns not just supporters, but actually sort of doing some of the, the hard work saying, can I count, you'll which was either her thinking that she could sort of a late change of mind and have someone coming over and defecting and saying, I've changed my mind Esther is the woman to lead this party or that she just didn't have the. Nato operation at some of the other candidates hut, Katie, and is about thanks very much, and you can subscribe rate, and Ravidas podcasts. Oh, the usual routes as you name and do join us again tomorrow.
The decision Dominic Raab can't make
"This month the spectator becomes the first magazine in history to print ten thousand issues. And we'd like to celebrate with you. Subscribe to The Spectator for twelve weeks for just twelve pounds. Plus we'll send you a bottle of commemorative spectator gin absolutely free. Go TO SPECTATOR. Dot Co dot. Uk Food Slash celebrate and. Welcome to coffee shots spectators daily and sometimes moved. Daily Politics podcast. The prime minister remains in intensive care. But he has not needed to use ventilator as of yet may have had an update today from an Steve Factor. Deputy Dominic Robb at the daily Government Press Conference James. What was the key takeaway message from the Fast Secretary of state so on Boris Johnson's health message was the Prime Minister? As you said is Nolan Events Eight hundred required invasive procedures to get more oxygen into his system and I think that given where things were last night I think that is a fairly hopeful state of affairs I the rest of the press conference those a lot of attention on dominate rahm is or isn't able to do in this kind of deputizing role. He was emphasizing cabinet collective responsibility and they have a clear idea of what Boris Johnson's plans are waiting to get on with implementing them and that is true in certain respects but there is one thing where the government has not yet formulated a plan. Which is how to ease the lockdown. How to ease these compulsory social distancing restrictions? Now when you think about that decision that is about as difficult and as consequential decisions any prime minister contain they're all so many trade-offs involved in that decision about people's health both in terms of the spread of the virus. But also Chris. He was pointing out the negative effects of lockdown on on other aspects of people's health aspects. Ain't jess in terms of your childhood. Vaccinations and such and also obviously the question of the economy. And I think it was played from dominant. Roms could've reluctance to engage on that question. The ultimately this is such a big question is going to have to wait for Boris. Johnson's return to work. Because Alvis is don could be the defining moment of his government. And I think I don't do being. There is going to be one view on this question around the cabinet table at the beginning of discussion. Certainly so I think that is probably gonNA is going to have to wait for Boris. Johnson's return to walk. Say phrases watching that press conference and hearing the messaging today already effectively in a holding pattern so to speak on corona virus and the government's response while Boris. Johnson is in hospital recovering. Aside from the day to day. Running will yes. We are in the pause but I'm afraid to say I can't really see what's would change. Even if he was a number ten right now the big question is how far has the current a virus spread as it spread to three percent of the country or sixty percent? The experts the model irs don't know we can't find answers of this because we can't get the antibody tests so until there is some serious change in situation either in Britain or abroad. I can't really see lockdown being reversed or being ended. We knew the government's doing all it can to get protests. I'm not quite sure. What the big decision would be that. Boris Johnson would make if he was number ten in not in intensive care and James when it comes to a potential way out. One of the things that came up in terms of the press conference was howdy case comparing of countries and the trajectory in terms of the death toll. Now we know the is hard to have a light by comparison Tam's death tolls and various countries because in part how they're recruited but one of the things that came out was how Germany right now seems to be at a lower trajectory. His Will Chris. Witty had to say about that. When I think that the one thing down to just we all know that Germany got ahead in terms of its ability to do testing for the virus. And there's a lot to learn from that and we've been trying to learn the lessons from that. James G think this is going to become an increasing problem for the government the fact that Germany which has had mass testing and the UK which is struggling had been heavily criticised mass testing a pair right. Now if you're on two different trajectories when it comes to fatalities I forgive you. Look at the European cubs at the moment. Nearly all we have a European. Spain is a little bit higher up but the UK France Italy all roughly banded in the same place and Germany is clearly currently on a lower trajectory. Now I've walked Chris Witty and Patrick Johnson. This absolutely fascinating and I and I really hope that you know there is when there is an inquiry into this when the country is fruit and there was an inquiry into what can be learned of what they both said things about the inquiry. Concentrate on wishy was emphasizing. How the fact that Germany testing so quickly and so fast has helped get will not lower project unbalanced was also talking about structural differences in the way but the German healthcare is organized compared to the UK and suggested that that might of helped obviously varies. Obviously things here to look at when we assess whether the UK could have done better in terms overnights response to this virus and of course the big difference between Germany and Britain is we have a centralized national health service whereas German health service is split between something like four hundred public. Health officials is run by councils. They don't need to get the coal from Health Ministry to say they can go ahead with testing. They can do it on their own initiative so we are all in this country anyway amazed how many tests. German health authorities managed to get their hands on and the way that they do seem to have through. Smart testing reduced. Talented rate is really quite interesting. Actually to see Patrick. Valance refer to the structures because the structures the mean to me quite obviously whether you ought to have the biggest organization in the world which is any whether it's better to trust those doctors more and the local health authorities more and give them more autonomy which the Germans do. It's been one the biggest issues in British politics for over forty or fifty years now with basically doesn't make sense to have any chance governed in a hierarchy. I've always tended to have slightly more belief in the ability of individual health services to manage themselves. That's been the German way is always seemed to make more sense to me interesting. That Patrick Valance is opening up this question. Now and James Away from the press conference. Have you had any more details day in terms of how the government is exactly going to function of Boris Johnson? As away we don't expect him to return N- immediate future so low dominic Robb is the de facto. Deputy we've heard today for example that should dominic robb full L. and some claim they have seen him. Coughing is Ritchie Knack the chancellor who steps in but how exactly as power being shared. Because it's not as though Dominic Robb is that has the same powers of Prime Minister Does dominate rob is emphasizing for. He is going to rely on cabinet. Collective responsibility and collective decision making and most of what they will be doing is implementing things that Boris Johnson has already outlined. I think obviously your position as someone who is deputising for somebody else is obviously less or for Steve. But you were the person yourself I mean I mean anyone who works in organization knows that that is true I think the because Dominic robb first extra state. I really think it could have been anybody else but him who took charge in this circumstance. Boris Johnson designated donate Rav as first extra stay by is traditionally the person who is next in line if the peonies is incapacitated and so I think any other solution would be would be a fall murkier and Messier I think is we took the lockdown. I think when things get difficult depending on how on earth is all for is is when the government has to take decisions on something web on has not left behind a can of clay applying or a clear set of instructions and finally phrase it. We'll Sorolla of labor and opposition with this because since the news broke that burst Johnson having an intensive calf. We've seen an outpouring of support well wishes for the Prime Minister. People's had previously that kissed armor wants to be a different type of opposition. Figure he wants to be constructive where he can so we're going to start to see. Labour working quite closely with the Conservatives or who is that perhaps a little bit better than reality will opposition leaders. I think often start saying they want to change the tone of politics. Even Jeremy Corbyn said he wanted to kindlier gentler. Politics didn't quite workouts that way but I also think they're times the national life for oppositions. Behave in different ways when you facing a common enemy whether it be a pandemic or whether you're in war you will see the government approval ratings. Go up they'd gone up in. Britain have gone up right around the Western world. You also see oppositions being more supportive of the government more sympathetic towards the government. And we're seeing that now. This tends not to last. I mean there is a reason in our system why the government and the opposition are two swords lengths apart from each other in the House of Commons must because Her Majesty's opposition is very important job. And that is to oppose the government as strongly as it possibly can. Of course be to everything. There is a season. There will be times for the opposition to go for the deal government's jugular but there will also be times for the opposition to lend supportive hands to the government and I thought the Tim. Jonathan Ashworth Fish. Health Secretary spoke very eloquently this morning what. He was talking about the Prime Minister. Being Hospital and he was saying in an quote he is of course. Our nation's leader were all rooting for him. We want him to come through this because we want him back fit and healthy leading the fight against this awful awful virus. That was quite a moving and magnanimous thing to save from Jonathan Ashworth. And I think that is the kind of the country is now in. We'll get 'em normal party politics. They will resume but right. Now we're all facing this. Virus will facing the common enemy. I think we can expect a different tone from our politics. Thank you phrase the thank you James.
What Boris's coronavirus diagnosis means for the government
"Before you start listening to this podcast we've got a special subscription offer. You can get twelve issues of the spectator for twelve pounds. Which will give you access to everything on our website and will also throw in a free twenty pound Amazon voucher just to spectate at courtesy Kaye Ford slash voucher. If you like to get this offer unwelcomed coffee shows spectators. Daily Politics podcast. I'm Cindy you and I'm joined by James and Katie Booze moments ago. The news broke that the prime minister has tested positive for corona virus. Here's what he had to say. I'm developed mild symptoms of the Corona virus has to say a temperature and a persistent cough and on the advice of the chief medical officer. I've taken a test. That has come out positive so I am working from home. I'm so isolating. And that's entirely the right thing to do Bought via diet that I can continue a thanks to the wizard on technology to communicate with all my top team to lead the national fight back against Kuroda bars. I want to thank everybody. Who's involved? I WANNA thank of course above all amazing. Nhs stoff it. It was very moving thus night to join in that national clap of the NHS Katie. What does this mean for government now in the immediate time? It doesn't mean that much. Boris Yeltsin's quite clear in his video message on his station media. And also the number ten spokesman comments. This is a prime minister. He plans to keep at lacking beat remotely. It means you're not gonNA see him at a press conference anytime soon in the sense that I think he's not gonna be flanked by his medical offices or other politicians Ben Thames the general operation. The message from dining street is that Boris Johnson is still in control. Any has mild symptoms. So it's not yet a case we have to think about who was going to step in now clearly. Those questions being awesome as to who else might have the corona virus who else needs to south isolate. We're hearing from the Treasury. That Russia is not sharing any symptons so it was not self isolating their questions barshop. His partner apparently is self isolating so so I think that's where the story is now going. I think the prime minister alone having to work remotely something that actually in the past week or say you've seen a practiced in terms of the cabinet phone call where lots of Mrs Using Zoom. The video apt is get in that you know down. The line remote working has already started and practices having puts in place but if suddenly you see white who and the government drop like flies with Corona virus infections that could be a slightly different pitcher and I think the fact that Boris Johnson recently stood. Yes a little bit far apart but on a platform with the chief medical officer and the Chief Scientific Officer. I think is going to lead to questions of whether Chris Witty and Patrick vallance needs to take some time where Layton keep working so this alone I think his days for the government but clearly if lots of the top team have to stop working at closely all being able to work in the short and that is a bigger problem. James presumably the next step will be to voice breath testing within Downing Street. Just to see who else in the top team might have it do their on any plans but I. I think they will test. Anyone comes down with symptoms. I mean they all can assist them. Ethically test the entire. Downing Street stall I mean we already know some some senior figures in Dallas? Happy self-isolation because they had symptoms and I think the for that reason in this case she said don't think as long as he brown Burson Symptoms Remain Mild David gets going to cause invite March disruption. Because they have basically moved to working kind of remotely already but I obviously only either. The Prime Minister Symptoms get more serious office. Katie says lots of leading people involved in the response to this end up having contacted the Boris. But he's GonNa make things more complicated. But as Casey said probably the main effective is going to be a week of course not being in those press conferences but seeing as practical misses all all knob being done with the journalists remotely. I'm sure it's not beyond the possibilities of modern technology to somehow. Set it up though whether you could do on your own those. I suppose probably saw a different question but I don't think at the moment is going to call the huge amount disruption but I think obviously he's symptoms become more serious or if not so people involved in government's response to spoil. It will complicate things now katy. Obviously it's early days yet but we know from this disease is that it can deteriorate quite faster if Boris Johnson is seriously ill format who is the designated survivor so the designated survivor is dominic. Robb lots in the news about this and various ministers feeding snubbed apparently ultimately is in some ways unsurprisingly dominant Grub is the designated survivor. The reason he is this is because he is the de facto. Deputy as the first secretary of state that means his title just means that he is the past that he would step in and had not been dominant garage. He was in. That still confirmed to be in this role. I think it would be in a snub. Big snubs dumb. That grow up because if you say. His title didn't count for something. I think there are questions. Have been government despite the fact. This wasn't surprising as to how Dominic Robb potentially fat if he has to step in and lead the country he did run that to be the conservative leader to be the prime minister in the Leadership contest but I think one of the criticisms say irate about this for the gardens weeks one of the criticisms of Boris Johnson. In these press conferences the he lacks the emotional intelligence or perhaps Deployments of Machine Act the Chancellor and there are times there. Critics said Boris. Johnson hasn't risen to the occasion and the way that some of his colleagues have now. I hired one government. Figure say to me that while they understood why Dominic Robb was surpassed that he would step in the problem. Is that if you think that. Boris Johnson laxed intelligence. Dominic ROBB IS GONNA make Johnson a world leader in this area and close close to Dominic. Robb say that is unfair but I think there is one of the things in the sense of if we start to hear Dominic Robb fronton center. I think there are questions. Have been government as he had passed with necessarily communicate with the country. And you have other ministers and I think when the question is who else is going to fall ill. I think that they're big private consensus in the sense that not that were not to have to take time off is not that they think is particularly ill but he's just seen as various essential right to the operation. So I think that Dominic Robb is the past and he would step in. That questions would have to see how you deal with that but I think that intense of all we're going to start seeing lots of ministers and Whitehall style fooling ill. I think that if we get into that scenario there's definitely some here are seen as particularly troublesome to lose time briefly capacity and James. Why is that defacto? I actually of state title given to Dominic Robb. Why wasn't a given to someone? More high profile such as Michael Gave Donate Rob Call it when George Johnson. I formed a government and I think the biggest issue facing the country at that moment. The biggest political issue of the Johnston government was brexit and how to deliver it and I think in picking Dominic Robb he was the one leadership candidate you have been removed bullish than Boris Johnson. On things like Pora Gatien. I'm leaving without deal if necessary number ten. We're trying to send a message that the Brexit policy was was rock solid for. Don't mean that has um someone waiting in the wings who is GonNa pull the plug on it. So I mean that was probably one of the reasons why I mean. There's also kind of natural tendency in foreign secretary has launched it. Fewer responsibilities van the chance on the home secretary so he's going to more natural fit take on some of the GT's of of the First Extra State William Hague David Cameron's First Secretary of State for example. So I think that you can see the logic that I think the challenge in this crisis is the overboard Johnson talks about. You can be no war. We've grown of ours. This particular foreign policy issue of even if if it's dominate wrong he pops up on the press conference today. But it'll be really the first time he's been from senator in this crisis you know it's been much more of a figures in government who have taken the lead and so the fact that dominate rob doesn't have the kind of a name recognition anywhere near kind of name recognition. That there going to question. The PUBLIC WON'T BE SURPRISED. Simple but but but I think one of the reminders of this social media video from Boris Johnson's data already clocked up at half a million views in just minutes after has been posted. It is a reminder. But he even if he can't do this daily press conference. He still has ways of communicating with the public. The enable him to remain the face of the government's responsible and perhaps in a sign of how quickly things are developing and have far reaching the current. A virus infection could being government. We've just had knees Matt. Hancock has also tested positive for corona virus. You did say earlier this week and another social media video. He said that he is feeling fine. He's any had mild symptoms and he is working from home so I think there's a chance we start to see lots of cabinet ministers working from home but some have been doing a anyway as a precaution. I think what is clear from burs chances video and also from what handle the very keen to show that they are still working. And I don't think you're going to see the prime minister of wanting to step aside for anyone else right now get much worse and being the leading our data if we will by eating a chance you might even see their prime minister trying to zoom in on uncertain meteorology entities to be the passing answering the questions or at least getting the message out there say James. Stand the last time we might have seen. The Prime Minister in public was on Thursday nights. Clap for the. Nhs where he came out of Downing Street with Richie CNN teams apart. And I think this club Manchester Siamese which is in some ways not a typically British reaction public displays of emotion. Does I think show something about the. I think people have what it says is people have a sense of how bad this could get and how much this country is going to be relying on. Its doctors and nurses in in the coming weeks a month and I think I think one of the political shifts confirmed by this by the credit crisis. Is You know previously. You had to governments. That looked offering can patient Paul Sport. They basically helping people to go private and always going to the Tory on abortion donate cummings. Nhs's being very different has been essentially drawn become high priest of national religion yet. One of the ways they won the brexit referendum entering sixteen was by promising more cast reenergized. This government's already pumping huge amounts of money into the NHS. I'll be one consequence of his voice is the even more money is going to look into just as an attempt to try to create back. Positi in the NHL so that the energy is is better prepared in future to deal with an instance like this and so. The justice can untouchable status in national. Life is even stronger today than it was a month ago yes and the future of NHL is one of the topics. We discuss on the weekly addition. Put cars from the spectator this week as well. Why torture Dr Max Pemberton? Who's on the frontlines of the NHS fight back about an HSA preparedness and what it might look like after the corona virus on the same podcast? We also talked former Foreign Secretary William Hague about what Britain might look like after corona virus so to find that just search for the addition. Wherever you get your podcast from James. Thanks very much and thank you for listening and join us again tomorrow.
The Evening Briefing: Monday, April 6
"Hallo Danny Boyle with the briefing from the Telegraph. It's Monday April. The Sake and Boris Johnson spent the day in hospital so the prime minister is down but not out. Boris Johnson said to be leading the government from his hospital bed. Having spent Monday undergoing tests for well to being described as persistent corona virus symptoms. He's expected to be kept in again overnight. Number ten insisted the PM was admitted as a precaution because of his cough and temperature but questions are being asked about whether he ought to step back from. Gt's to recover at the latest Downing Street press conference he's second-in-command Dominic Robb said the PM was being given regular updates and continues to lead but with so many unanswered questions. We've been speaking to experts. They've told us the tests. Mister Johnson's likely to undergo and with the UK death toll up by another four hundred thirty nine. It's worth remembering. How Corona virus tracker can help you follow. The Diseases Spread Way. You live now. Some good news. Several European countries are preparing to ease their lockdowns. That's off the death. Rates began to decline Australia's announced a plan to reduce social restrictions from next week and public officials in Italy. Spain and France suggested other countries could follow suits L. correspondent Justin Hugli reports on what alternative measures might involve and at times like this. Fresh produce can be harder than usual to come by so you might find it handy to know that tweaking how you store. Fruits and vegetables can make a huge difference to keeping them fresh so to avoid binning more than his necessary. We've got some ingenious storage tips to keep your food fresh for longer right staples if you're listening on what's Apple. Send you those links now. Listening on spotify Apple Logo Wherever you get your podcast. You'll find them in the show notes as well as links to some non corona virus material including the death of a bond girl. Repeat tree of Honor Blackman. Who's died at ninety four and the truth? About Spencer Tracy was he really the most top man in Hollywood. That's it you're up to date. I'll have your next briefing in the morning.
How Britain and Brazil Coped With Their Leaders Falling Ill
"Brought to you by lucky charms magical mission. Let lucky the Leprechaun take you and your kids on an interactive adventure through the eight magical charm lands to restore magic available on your Smart Speaker just open lucky charms, magical mission or search for it wherever you listen to podcasts. We'll trump's covid nineteen infection changed the way he manages the pandemic. It didn't for the leaders of Brazil and the UK by Billy. PERICO. With president trump saying he has tested positive for covid nineteen. The US joins the ranks of countries whose leaders have contracted the disease while no world leader has yet died from covid nineteen. Some have suffered severe complications Brazil and the UK offer two different lessons and how a leader contracting the virus can disrupt governance of a nation. British Prime Minister Boris Johnson fifty-six came down with a serious case in April which left him in intensive care in his absence which coincided with the height of the UK's first wave of infections. The country was run collectively by the members of his cabinet. Several of them including his health minister. Matt. Hancock were infected too but while his defacto deputy Dominic Robb was nominally in charge no major decisions were made until Johnson was discharged after seven nights in the hospital. He spent two more weeks recovering at home not working. Things could have gone either way Johnson said after his ordeal crediting National Health Service doctors with saving his life. And Brazil. Far Right President Bolsonaro sixty five who frequently mocked the severity of the disease even as Brazil became one of the worst hit countries in the world tested positive for Covid nineteen and July. But his case unlike Johnson's was a mild one with few symptoms, he was able to govern from self-isolation and for a man who had said in March, he wouldn't feel anything if infected by the virus, his experience appeared only to bolster his extreme rhetoric and September he said Brazilians should not be forced to take a vaccine. The different experiences of Johnson and Bolsonaro illustrate the range in severity of cases of covid nineteen. But in both cases neither Johnson and Bolsonaro seem to have materially altered their approach to governing during the pandemic because of their experience with the disease. Did Catching Cova nineteen changed the way Johnson Bolsonaro governed during the pandemic. Some of the UK hoped that a brush with the disease would force Johnson to take a more responsible approach to public health messaging than he did during the early stages of the UK's epidemic when he had boasted of shaking hands with people while on a visit to a hospital that was treating a virus patients three weeks before he and several members of his cabinet announced, they had tested positive for covid nineteen but Johnson's. With covid nineteen didn't really have a detectable effect says Rob Ford Professor of politics at Manchester University in the UK since his recovery Johnson's government has muddled through a series of scandals including one in which Johnson, refused to fire his chief political adviser who had broken lockdown rules. Still Ford is cautious about drawing too many conclusions about how Johnson's cove nineteen infection impacted his leadership. There was so much else going on he says, and it's hard to draw any lessons for the US situation because the political context there is so different. and Brazil the picture is slightly different. Catching covid nineteen didn't seem to shift Bolsonaro governance tactics. It's turbo charged them. While infected Bolsonaro boasted of taking the drug atrocity chloroquine, the unproven medication also touted by trump. I'm doing much better than I want Bolsonaro said in a video posted to social media in July as he took a dose of hydroxy chloroquine and washed it down with water. It's working. He has encouraged Brazilians to flout local state lockdown rules and told reporters in September. No. One can force anyone to get a vaccine. His brush with the disease may even have brought political benefits. Analysts said, his quick recovery strengthens. The claim that the pandemic is actually not that bad oliver stone circle of the Julia Vargas Foundation, in Sao Paulo told the Financial Times in September and secondly I think it also creates an image or strengthens an image of Bolsonaro as Superhuman Messiah. That catching covid nineteen have an effect on Johnson or Bolsonaro public. Support. Johnson's severe case of the virus appeared to prompt a wave of sympathy from the British public his personal approval ratings skyrocketed from forty four percent in mid March to sixty six percent. Don't April thirteenth immediately after he exited the ICU Johnson Spike and approval coincided with the UK's lockdown, which enjoyed broad public support in the spring. Johnson's approval ratings sank to thirty five percent in late September amid accusations is government has mishandled the pandemic. In. The US the pandemic has killed more than two hundred, seven thousand Americans but trump approval ratings are slightly higher than they were before the first wave it about forty, three percent. When Boris Johnson succumbed to Covid nineteen he and his conservative government were in common with many other leaders in administrations around the world already benefiting from our rally round. The flag in popular support said Tim Bale Professor of politics at. Queen. Mary. University of London an email to time. The fact that the prime minister had himself contracted the disease may have resulted in a wave of human sympathy for him and helped ensure that the public if it wasn't already with henceforth take corona virus very seriously indeed all of which helped reinforce public health messaging, but contrary to popular belief it didn't actually have much of an impact on his ratings or those of the government more generally and any slight boost. It may have occasioned pretty soon dissipated as it became clearer and clearer that mistakes in the handling of the pandemic, meant that the UK's death rate was far higher than that of many comparable countries in Europe. More than forty, two thousand people have died in Britain making it the worst hit country in Europe. Bolsonaro approval ratings also rose a month after he contracted the virus though this coincided with a push by his government to provide forty seven, billion dollars of emergency aid money to vulnerable parts of society support for the Brazilian president hovered around thirty three percent between April and June according to data fully polling but rose to thirty seven percent in August. In both cases, the absence of detailed polling on the link between the leaders, catching the virus and people's support for them not to mention all the other circumstances that impact people's choices means it's impossible to say what effect catching the virus hat on support for Johnson and Bolsonaro. How did the UK govern when Boris? Johnson was out of action with covid nineteen. In the UK when Johnson's case worsened in April, the government was faced with serious questions about the line of authority appearing on television when Johnson was out of action in the hospital ministers refused to comment on whether the acting prime. minister. Dominic ROBB had the authority to hire and fire government figures or to authorize a nuclear strike in the event of an attack in the US. The line of command is more straightforward. If trump is incapacitated, leadership would pass to Mike. Pence who assumes the powers of the President? But wild chaotic, the UK government's approach might carry lessons for how a highly centralized White House might be able to cope if several senior figures become infected at the same time. After. Johnson was infected. The top echelons of the British government were divided into socially distance teams each focusing on different areas of response to the coronavirus.
Why is the 'R' number going back up?
"Coffeehouse shots is sponsored by. Look forward the podcast from Rathbun's what the future might look like find out more at rathbone. Look FORWARD DOT com. Welcome to coffee. House shows spectators daily politics. Podcast I'm an joined by cables and James Suicide so today is meant to be the day that the government renews its lockdown legislation but at a press conference today. Dominic ROBB didn't really announce an easing of the lockdown. But he just say we would be looking forward to your Sunday statement from the prime minister. Katya wasn't a big surprise. Was it huge surprise? But I think it's been a slightly strange dynamic today in part because of the front pages of newspapers. Mooning you had front pages hooking had good news was coming and it was talking about how we haven't getting locked anything they thinking had abortions statement on Sunday in which several papers reported that could be told that they can exercise as many times as they want. They can sunbathe along host of Meshes. And something's going on because today you've had figures inside. Government is civil servants who administers and AIDS quite nervous. They're actually things a building up for Sunday. That people are expecting this big change about create the same time. Newspapers didn't pluck this information from Norway. It came from someone in government. And I think that's meant that. Today when Dominic Robb pit at the press conference but maybe we have been saying this for some time you any very. Small changes lockdown is going to continue and any small changes will be announced on Sunday. I think it has created this backdrop where you have Nicholas Sturgeon for example at. Stay saying it'd be a catastrophic mistake to changes at home message potentially and was having in dividing line with the Westminster even though is not yet clear from any official government statements. They're in different places on their plans for easing Dan. So I think that's the background stays press conference. So why is unsurprising? And we did expect dominant rob to stand up and say look is continuing and any changes will be small. I think it has been a unnecessary confusing various factors in the buildup to this James that we also learned a bit more about the our number with the government saying today that it's between point five and not point nine. That doesn't really seem like a big decrease or any decrease tool free weeks ago. The Cabinet Matola. It was between North. Point five hundred one and then donate. Roth's says press conference that is between North Point five and no point nine now in diamond. Who's the chief suspicion at the office slash districts? So you need to look at the on number linked to the prevalence because it all depends how many cases there all of the virus number of how many cases there are depends. What the on number means we've given that. The governor explicit aim is to keep the all below one with the ARA between five point nine the strictures. The government has set itself. Doesn't have much room for maneuver and if one of the warring things is that In his evidence in parliament is age on have been one of the government. Scientists said the the number of being going up recently and that was backed up at the press conference. And so what? What appears to be happening? Is that the Situation in care homes is so bad for is pushing the nationwide all up. I think this is something that is beginning. Might Relieve Raises ruinously. Perko visa spectator exploring what we do know what we don't know cronin bars. I'm one of the things that we all beginning to learn appears that has a particular likelihood to spread in these kind of settings like hospitals and care. It's spread their foam than it does to use the phrase out in the community so we now wait for Boris Johnson's address on Sunday and to see what easing we get as Katie. Says as we've been buying on about on poker ages the easing is going to be very mild I think it's mostly about outdoor activities and a bishop say bits of a return to the original guidance which essentially said. If you couldn't work from home you could still go to work. And that was written in the hope. Construction manufacturing will continue. I think there will be a bit of a government trying. Get those industries back working albeit with social distancing. Katie is something that jumped out at me. Today was Dominic Robb saying that they retain the option to tighten restrictions again. If they knew I thought the government didn't really want to be in that sort of situation where once listening happened. They had tighten things again. This is portrayed as a nervousness within government. A government figures have said several times. They don't want to second peak the whole aim of stress. She is to make sure they avoid a second peak. Their argument made to lose. Mp is getting a little antsy about the fat lockdown continuing. The fact in the economy is you might be worried about the economy but having a second peak and everything going back in terms of the restrictions is more damaging to the economy and keeping a bit longer but clearly partly because of assignment is unknown. Partly because we've just the on number has moved tiny fraction potentially despite an ongoing lockton part this year you just cannot say sure. You're going to avoid a second peak so I think saying that you might have restrictions. Come back in something Nicholas. Sturgeon has talked about quite openly at press conferences. She said that you could potentially have a situation. Where for the rest of the year? You have quite short notice depending on on what's happening with the rate of infection so I didn't think Dominic Robb saying it is that much of a change in direction but it's very much not the government's preference. I just think it can't be ruled out when it comes to having these changes particularly when my hearing things such as this idea that Dominic Robb I think put forward previously about whether or not opening schools could lead to the NHS being overwhelmed. We just don't know these things. The actual impact is going to be. It could be less. It could be more than what the various scientific advises feeding. And I think the lack of certainty does just mean that we are entering a situation where you are GonNa have to wind things back in if you have a situation where the number goes back up James reports as well. We were talking about the APP Yesterday. On the podcast reports that there might be a government u-turn on whether or not to work with apple and Google on developing this APP. Do we know if there are movements on that front? I think it's telling Matt Hancock talking about. Ibm Plan B's for the APP. If it doesn't work I think the government realize that by choosing to go their own way. They've taken all the political risk onto themselves so they definitely intend to have a backup plan. If this doesn't work the way we taste we'll have to wait for Freddie Gray or white resident issue or indeed to issue User Experience Review of the APP. And frankly I think what is the most important question of it in terms of takeout? Which is none of none of the beak for this offer questions about privacy and the state knowing where you go but the question of what does it do to your battery life because I think various senses it drains battery life I that will be very damaging to take up so we wait to see what what happens that I think the other thing that we really are also waiting to see is what happens in those European countries that are easing the lockdown more substantial even the UK is. I think for example of Germany. While you know even footballers returning quite soon admittedly without crowds. I think one of the things is no one quite knows what contributes what to the ANA MBA. It's just kind of one of the big debates you think about it quite good way to think about it. This is the government essentially has a budget for the are of one but no one knows what contributes. What is not like they can say right. We can open schools. We know that the ends north point to precisely to be off and the R. is currently no point seven so we can do that and safely not win some vibe and safely say within the win below one no as I ever will be looking to find for government's own data but also looking to see the experiences of other countries that are easing more to see what happens to their on number to see wherever that can give you any indication as to why the government might be able to ease up and Casey the other big news today is the onus has published. Its latest report on virus by ethnicity. What does it say is listeners? Really worrying news is that black people. The moon four times more likely to die from Korean virus in white people and the officers national statistics and they found that the difference in the viruses impact was caused not only by pre existing different differences in communities wealth living arrangements health and education. So I think there was already a sense in government. This is a big problem They Bruce in Trevor Phillips previously to to look into this I think in terms of how the government plans to respond. They were asked today whether or not they look to shield certain ethnic minority groups particularly those on the front line or what kind of actions and there is but I think is just riddled complex difficulties and I did. The government has an answer to it right now. James Katie. Thanks very much. And if you're worried about your battery life as we look forward to the rollout of the NHL APP they remember. You can get a free wireless charger on the Spectator Spectator Quedo. Uk four slash charger. And you'll also get a free trial to the spectator itself. So what are you waiting for? Thanks for listening and join us again tomorrow. Coffeehouse shots is sponsored by the rest bones. Look forward podcast. Joined the world's leading thinkers writers and scientists discussing the future of our ever changing world in the latest episode historian. Tom Holland talks broadcaster Andrea Catherwood on the future of morality find out more at bones look forward dot com.
The Evening Briefing: Thursday April 16
"Good evening I'm Chris. Price with the briefing from the Telegraph. It's Thursday proved sixteenth and lockdowns going to be extended for at least another three weeks. It was the worst kept secret in government today. Dominic Robb confirmed the president restrictions on our everyday. Lives will continue for at least another three weeks but he did reveal the rate of infection in the UK is almost certainly now below one. So why does the lockdown remain? He said we're at a delicate and dangerous. Stage easing up too soon. Risks Giving Corona Varsity. Second chance he said but he did outline the factors that would allow lockdown to begin to be lifted these included a sustained fall in the death rate and making sure the NHL has its ability to cope protected. Son doubtedly the biggest moment Mr Rob's career as he continues to deputise for Boris Johnson. Camilla Tony Profiles. The man who was once reported orders the same lunch every day and this time last year was a backbench impe with only four months of cabinet experience as you all know. One of the world's worst affected nations from the pandemic has been Italy will than twenty one thousand. Italians have died and today the president of the European Commission has apologized to the country the US failure during the early stages of the crisis James Crispin Knicks Outline Italy's response and with all the gloom. Thank goodness for Captain Tom. More in what's undoubtedly the feel good story of this crisis. The ninety nine year old World War veterans completed his fundraising challenge. He set himself the goal of walking one hundred laps of his garden before his one hundredth birthday at the end of the month he deigned to raise a thousand pounds to the NHS as send this. Donations have topped fourteen million pounds. He can watch him receiving gold vulne as he completed his challenge. Today or stay. Put if you're listening on what separates into those links now and if you're listening on spotify apple or wherever you get poor cost your funding in the show as well as links to some non-core material including how the beach almost sank. Leonardo DiCaprio and how star orbiting a supermassive black hole at the heart of the Milky Way has proven able Albert Einstein's general theory of relativity. That's up to date more from Danny tomorrow morning.
Is May's deal worse than EU membership?
"Copy how shops that Asians daily. Gosden I'm joined by phrase, Nelson, Casey. Take a heat trees may was on ABC five live for phone with taking questions from public. How did it go? But this has second Fernan in less than a week. And is interesting is Theresa May know, many avoid steering too much media. She doesn't particularly comfortable by think there is a realization number ten if she has to have any chance. It's looks unlikely a passing her deal. She has to try and get a public at least on side that could change some MP's mind. At least thinking goes so didn't seem like her natural habitat. But she seen fatty confident as she faced questions. I think most of the questions were a little bit hostile. There's one question particular where asked her if she could just guarantee now that she believed her deal was better than Eam ember ship, and what they got was a series of waffle and eventually Amazon who's presenting. It went to the cooler and said, gee, think he going to your question? And the cool. It did not think they had. And I think slight yoga for Theresa bay this morning before this interview, we had Dominic Robb on radio fool, and he's he said audit Brexit that. He if he was going to be competing Frank currently on offer is worse than enough Bishop Verdy Doma djing actually for its reason me right now because I know a lot of senior Briggs is here's also tell you in private, but they do think Theresa May's deal is worse than Emek ship. And let's say in private this is the author Eckerd conversations that journalists let me over the polish and the whole time. I get the impression talking to them. Like if asked they would say as dominant grounded this morning. Yes, I do think is better to stay in into with her deal and Syrah later, if you ask other people have no idea, for example, what boards Johnson read knocking Smith think of this. But wouldn't surprise me. If either them would save they think staying into be preferable to her deal, then you to critical mass. Of people. The raiders can see almost a coalition really between them and the brigadiers who think will. Let's just go back to the EIB because at least we might be able to get out of it one day, whereas with Theresa May's deal you stuck for a long time. So funny that she even the prime minister to waffle, whether she thought her deal was better than you member ship because a lot of her cabinet cannot say is every spoken to one from bencher who genuinely thinks it's an improvement. Today's people are the people who will say think that NATO might you better than. Oh, yeah. Right now, I do single Brexit's here who who are the ones I speak to speak to more than good for my health. And the Hugh doesn't who is not thinking that the good season. New deal is the ways ago. They'd vary over the timeframe and Andrea lesson talks about having a year limitation period before moving onto new deal. But the. Finding many Tories now who think well, let's go back to the EU and Gucci. It's a better deal. There was a while. Dominic Robb thought you'd be able to do that. But you've seen them drop away. And as the renegotiate Lobi drops away, you can increase if people who say EU membership is better or we have got now option than to pursue new deal when everything will be when she loses that vote in the house of Commons. I think the eve think this is the done deal. They are not willing to open this up back into the drill agreement party. Because if they do e Member States, you have changes lay also to make say if opening a whole can of worms saying, I think it's interesting that practice, and I'm moving away from you kind of giving up idea that was me to week or so ago, and that making small changes they read is not really going to happen. That means you like the steel or do you think you can stop moving, tools and not all or mitigated? No, I think Theresa May of the question of whether had air was better than you. And staying e is damaging. Given that she should remain. She's always been a little bit vague when it comes to not she thinks Brexit, great the country that vagueness has been start you damaging giving them on she's leading. And you would you'd hope that she's all kind of have you featured prison you graph called him today. You talk about the need for a plan b through thing. Would you like trees may be saying this point personally, I think the game is up with Theresa May? I think she is. She's her deal fails. I can't see you changing her plan. I was quite likely to do then she will and the other deal to be done. Then I think the only viable alternative we do Briggs is saying to the EU look we spent on his time to and fortunately parliament isn't going to approve your Uram. Briggs it deals. Let's just move to world trade terms, and you could see this is effectively. She was discussing Lancaster House new customs union new single market. We're going to have the same relationship with the EU is Canada house is pretty familiar. I m sure we need to make arrangements the borders, but we would pay the you say ten billion pounds or something's pay membership right now to by yourselves year to make all the preparations. So that means 'em beefing up the border security coming out with all kinds of arrangements for aviation for coordinating, and for tariff, scheduling, it is doable. And I think we wait preferable to see is as a Trump that would keep the torty party in the country banging on about Brexit for years to come. I mean apartment else. I mean, I looked at Brexit mcquarters soapy europhile by instincts, and I still would describe myself very much a pro European. So it's not as if I'm with you manage crazy, for Brexit offi opinion, if we are going to leave the EU, we ought to leave you and come up with her vision, which is to basically stay. Eighty percents in in a way, which is bound to keep this open would seeping for years to come cannot be any kind of solution to this question. The council meeting this weekend, surveying expectancy disgust over expecting of fatal of beaming. Theresa May various Brussels figures, and this is because this appointment that's space be signing often things. And then we'll come back to the comments entries may starts how she can. Maybe. Save how she can somehow get free parliament. So I think this weekend for number ten try and date is basically made us into a positive PR exercise possible for the prime minister that doesn't mean it's not that I was own handles be ready heard from the Spanish side that they are not happy about Gibraltar soon. I couldn't believe the Spanish Prime minister says he's going to veto brags. What they like about the Brexit emission Detroit. They basically think the Britain's we do dealing directly with them for mission about Gibraltar. I think they're just kicking off the way that you know, any any negotiation involving these countries is going to have somebody sounding off about something or another. But here you do need you. If you need you to see for trade deal if Theresa May were to ever negotiate one and two years down the line. You would need everybody to prove that with a Brig zits you need consensus. So you can have consensus with Spain mooning on. About Gibraltar which does and just about. I mean in this tweet as as I just mentioned he you had the suggestion that they were going to stop Brexit. I mean, it's gonna stop Brack. So they're probably gonna have to consult with the purchase public. He vote to stop Brexit. That does I mean, I didn't think actually this is really going to have that much weight because you have the Germans that she pressing the idea that people need to put that cripples aside. Nothing's being changed. Your apron this agreement that makes more changes everyone's going to want to change. It doesn't have to this day, which there there's some people in the Bracks tear can't hear that. She quite like it. If an understand if an the state Beata the steel. Mean it wasn't on the side. And it might mean e had a little bit more incentive to do this mitigated deal said to d- mini agreements because the big boy native is if it is blamed on the Brits. If is Akron years you have any goodwill in federal office. Only Satish not a lot harder to organize if you could blame understate. Him out PR on what you make this Brexit. Many. Ma that's been set up in Peckham by the people's votes heading things like chlorinated chicken. Commands mustard. I mean, the people's had many PR attempts recently, I this is very fun on social media taken up quite quickly because they have package shake coronated on. I mean, the fundaments Theresa May's deal actually live Cornish chicken factory Smits deal. She can't read free trade deals with that country's because you re panned e regulations indefinitely. So I'm gonna quite with praising that is their posing the idea of native Brax there. Sure. The people's very campaign is trying to oppose the prime minister's deals. I will ever else for us. So I think is given that actually perhaps you could say it was an argument in favor of the deal for the people the fact that Theresa May's dealers protectionist. So you're not gonna get your current chicken right now going to be a real big market. Everything will be about ten percents sheepherder, which is what we get in world trade of independence protectionist tariff. They must have degree because that show is called cost. Upper said they must disagree with that. And just finding his vision. Caroline, Nokes said that no one should be paid over one million sheep story impede quite strange thing to be hearing from Tori MB. I think this shows what's progress. Jeremy Corbyn is making influencing British public debate. I mean, you quite writes a few years ago, we would not really have had towards stand up in a house of Commons and say isn't outrageous, anybody urines more than the million quid? And of course, nobody likes to think of anybody or any seven figures some that it happens and the answer to why is justifiable is that this is what free countries do this is what we look like there is a free country in the world where people are earning staggering amounts of money, usually because they have been quite successful. And Jake ruling will sell a lot of books. We'll make lots of money as a result of she brings happiness that has functioned millions of equal around the world. So the globalization of success really magnet. Fis through wards 'em. Now, if you're uncomfortable with somebody earning a million pounds, then bear this mind, but this will be split under our system almost fifty fifty with tax payer almost half a million pounds will be offered a million pounds salary who becoming to chancellor the exchequer unless half a million pounds, which you ordinary taxpayer will not be asked to fund, and I'll give you a figure to warm the heart of the most ardent Corbin needs to redistributionist that in Brisbane the best paid one percent are paying twenty eight percent of all income tax collective never has that proportion being higher. Never assume much been taken from the view, and there's a flip side to that as well that the bottom fifty percents the Lewer paid half of workers in Brisbane together are asked for less than ten percent of tickling to Lincoln tanks. Never has that share record from them being so low. That's why. Britain. We do have huge salaries, but we also have income inequality at pretty much Lewis has been for thirty years. So yes, there is inequality in income is always going to be this. But he progressive taxation system, which we go who make sure but the more they get paid the salary the more they pay and tanks of a last everybody else has to pay. Thank you on. Thank you, Katie. And just while we everyone's tension physically. Tell us about this event is happening. Yes. We're having a Vince called Brexit. The final deal. Dominic grab gyms science and others will be there. To discuss have a land lies is Wednesday, the fifth of December likely to be just a few days before Theresa May's crunch-vote. So if any subscribers are there or even know subscribers you've very welcome to join us just looks for Briggs at the final deal on our websites. And hopefully, we'll see you there is in central London seven o'clock with say the fifth. Thanks listening and can back on Monday.
UK Coronavirus lockdown extended - now we need an exit plan
"Hello it's David here. Thank you for listening to the leader. Kuna virus daily. It would be a really big help if you could subscribe to the show and give us a rating that way. More people will discover a news interviews analysis and special features. And let us know. You're listening say using the Hashtag Alita podcast on social media. It would be lovely to me now from evening. Standard in London. This is the leader could own virus daily. Hi I'm David Moslem. Three more weeks at least look carries on. That was the one bit of news. Today that has been not not surprised at all. What was unexpected was the way people are now demanding this exit strategy a political editor. Joe Mafia's the government confirms lockdown. Goes on but where is the plan to end it? Also I'm going to issue an executive order that says all people in public must have a mask and they must wear it in a situation where you cannot or not maintaining social distancing New York governor Andrew Cuomo's forcing people to wear face masks in public. We speak to a Cambridge University expert. Who thinks the UK should take notice taken from the evening? Standard's editorial call him. This is the leader Karuna virus daily for the whole thing pick up the newspaper had two standard Dokodo. Uk slash comment in a moment longer lockdown. But what's next? Germany is the latest country in Europe to lay out how it will come out of lockdown. Some shops will reopen on Monday with schools. To follow with the start of May but large gatherings are still banned until the end of August angle. Marco gave a detailed press conference explaining her decisions but in the U. K. The lockdowns being extended without any clear plan on how it will end the evening. Standard's editorial column says it's time for that to be answered as the law requires ministers are announcing that our lockdown will continue for another three weeks. That's essential and uncontroversial but this is surely the last time and extension will be generally acceptable to people without a much clearer. Explanation of how and why decision has been made the restrictions work not just because they're being enforced by the law but because the vast majority of us think they are needed and almost all of us are doing our best to comply. It is an act of collective endeavor for the national good. This cannot be sustained by the random utterings of ministers or the anonymous thoughts of special advisers. Something so immensely serious must be supported by a serious process. So where is it a political ad? Joe Murphy joins me over the phone and Joe. Does the government have a secret exit strategy that it's hiding in Downing Street? Well the lockdown carries on. That was the one bit of news today. That has been not not surprised at all. It's been well trailed What was unexpected. Was the way people are now? In some of courses demanding this exit strategy be revealed or worked on and I think the big noise off. Today was Professor Neil Ferguson from Imperial College London who own gave an interview which he was quite outspoken saying he wasn't certain that there was an exit strategy and he pressed for an acceleration of decisions and the direction that he wants to govern together in is as soon as numbers of cases down to rock bottom as near they can get them then to institute mass checking mass contact tracing and mass tracking server any future outbreaks dealt with in the way that the Germans have been quite successfully doing it and the Koreans finding them isolating the people involved isolating their contacts so that you don't allow things to overwhelm the NHS again but that is a subject that government is just refusing to discuss. The Health Secretary says we have a message. Stay at home save lives protect the NHS and any other discussion would get in the way of that. There's no suggestion that the absence of Boris Johnson. The prime minister is perhaps delaying things. I think it has to be a factor because we've had cabinet meet today with Dominic Robb charing it and we've got Cobra meeting this afternoon with Dominic Robb sharing that as well and Dominic Rob the first state in the foreign secretary big figure though he is now he is not the prime minister. And if you are going to signal a really big change of or development in policy you do need the prime minister to be in the discussion and on board because there is no point in coming back from his sick. Leave and saying actually. That's not what I want to do. Or maybe simply actually yes. That's what we're doing with. The timing is wrong now. The Prime Minister is obviously watching the TV. His sick leave checkers but we are told by ten. He's not working so he's not taking part in these intense discussions In a full way one other issue has been around testing and the lack thereof of testing but the government has stepped that up having they they have and There was a target of twenty five thousand tests by mid April and another target of one hundred thousand tests today by the end of this month. Which have both produced a lot of skepticism Well today number ten is saying that they've now got a capacity of thirty five thousand tests a day having harnessed commercial testing abortuaries which account to fifteen thousand of those the other twenty thousand being the NHL in public health England's labs. But there's a fly in this Robert attractive sounding ointment. Which is the yesterday. Only fifteen thousand nine hundred ninety four tests were actually carried out So that's a gap of well. It's just half the capacity being used and I think people will be asking. Why is that because sure there are lots of people who want to be tested people in care homes have just been given access and people in the NHL who wants to know they've got symptoms or not and you will be if I think people will be wondering as bad organization rather than a lack of demand and the truth is probably somewhere in between it is crucial? Because I could tell you that I've got the capacity to go out joking to lose weight to tidy my spare room and all the things that I ought to be doing but unless I actually get around to doing them then that capacity is pretty wasted. So we've got another three weeks in lockdown at the end of this three weeks. Are we expecting the government to say this is? We're going to get my view. Is the government will be under a lot of pressure to start the dance of the seven veils revealing how. They're going to do that sometime before. Then I think that will be irresistible and it will involve mass testing getting the capacity to one hundred thousand further reason. I think will involve an antibody test. No country has yet Got One that works well enough. I'm Bert I'm buying. That is the direction that we're working in is clearly what the government thinks. He's worth developing and ill probably. According to all the experts I talked to involve either certain sectors of the economy game back on certain groups like schoolchildren going back earlier than others and maybe some regions turning to something more like normal faster than others. I say more noble because actual normality won't happen until there's a vaccine and that well a year or eighteen months even away next. What they are saying is that there's no evidence to support Yousef face mosques but there's also no compelling evidence for hand washing so if we're willing to go down one behavioral route where arguing that the same should apply for face must duct Babak Javid from Cambridge and Ching while universities on why the UK shoot become a nation of facemask waivers. You're right to go out for a walk in the park. The dog is getting on your nerves. Fine don't infect me you don't have a right to infect me you must have a mask or a cloth covering knows and now a New York governor Andrew Cuomo's taking a tough stand against Colona virus and those who might spread it break his new low forcing you to wear a face mask in the state public and he's considering imposing civil penalties in the UK. The masks became more popular as the virus began it spread but the division in the medical community hoover whether they walk tall. I'm now joined over zoom by Dr Back Javid who's both a consultant and infectious diseases at Cambridge University hospitals and professor at Chin. Guar University in Beijing doubted Javan. You want more people wearing facemasks should the UK kill the same. Route is New York and make law of Islam. Not a policy expert. But I can tell you. From a scientific perspective because the maximal benefits of the population wearing masks is most people wear it measures that increase compliance would definitely improves the benefit because the benefit is mostly from protecting other people. Not Protecting yourself in minority vigils a- wearing mosques where only gonNA see very very mind benefits from population Moscow but it does appear to be a confusing message from the scientific community. Some people including the government's own advisers. Say that masks are not necessary. And they don't work. We have to look at the precise language that's been used by both the UK government in the WHO. What they are saying is that there's no evidence to support use efface mosques and a whole by hands up and say that when we look at the scientific evidence it's not compelling but there's also no compelling evidence for handwashing in fact if we're willing to go down one behavioral route to minimize impacts of nineteen and the absence of evidence where arguing that the same should apply for face off says good scientific rationale face masks and the absence of evidence. That doesn't mean this evidence of no benefit. They're not the same thing. I was not aware that there's no evidence for hand washing so what we can say. Is that the evidence for handwashing is flimsy and no less flimsy than the evidence full wearing face masks that some studies that benefit and many studies that don't and in fact studies have looked at face mosques combined with hand washing are the most consistent in showing benefits assuming they do work then as you say. What would have to face masks work? So there are two potential mechanisms. Say That almost all studies with face must have been using surgical mosques. The little bit of an extra collation when medical Moscow limiting as to how effective mosques will be on just going to be honest about ops but one benefit and this is really important in a hospital is to protect the wearer from incoming droplets that might contain infectious virus for that. You really need high quality mosques. Which won't be available for the general public but the second benefits is to prevent people who Off Shedding virus that it just inaudible breathing or coughing or whatever transmitting virus either to other people into the air onto surfaces from reducing that shedding and. There's actually quite good evidence that even cost mosques pretty effective at that so it's really to block. Transmission and more and more evidence is not emerging that the maximum amount of viral shedding in patients with Kevin. Nineteen is actually happening just before they show symptoms such as fever. So if we're only asking people with symptoms such as coughing fema to wear masks to protect others. Were actually missing the boat on where it might have maximum effectiveness. The has been some reporting about risks of wearing masks and dangers of wearing masks. Other any dangerous side. I think that we need to categorize these in a couple of different categories. The first one is the issue of complacency. If someone wears her face masks they might not do. Other behavioral measures such as physical distancing washing their hands. And I think that can be sold by dictation. In the same way that people in the seventies said you should wear seatbelts because it will make people drive recklessly or we shouldn't use condoms in the eighties. Because people be more promiscuous these can be solved by education. The other issue is about contamination mosques that if a mosque is contaminated and we take it off and we then don't wash our hands. We GonNA risk contaminating ourselves on surfaces. I think that's a real issue but again that can be solved by a education and the second point. That's not being discussed by some doubtless. Is that if a master's contaminated by definition. It's already done. Its job and protected you because how can it be contaminated ignite contaminated if they're infectious droplets? That would've otherwise touched. Gone into Matthew on onto your face so. I think we have to be just honest about these issues and then treat the public as mature individuals that can weigh up the evidence themselves. There are some people who kind of have an issue with wearing masks themselves. They fall off the not that easy to use though Ali. I think that that's very fair and have to be honest that you know when I'm out and about bring my own mosque going shopping. Whatever I do see. Some people wearing mosque book. They're constantly touching face adjusting the mosque. All these things. These things can be solved by massification campaigns. Who would have thought three months ago we would have had full hundred ads a day telling us how to wash all hands? We just assumed people would know how to do it. Why can't we do the same thing from us? Could you see the UK becoming a nation like South Korea? We're face masks are commonplace. I think that we have to be honest with the public and I think the public is currently confused. I think we have to say this is mostly an altruistic act and I think actually the British public are incredibly good at thinking about others if we say that this is really going to be beneficial only if we all unite. We're actually much more likely to see a public. And that's the leader Coluna virus daily. You can keep up with all the latest Cova nineteen developments with the evening standard live blog. And you'll find that it's standard code. Uk and we also have morning briefings available at seventy three or smart speaker. Just ask the news from the evening. Standard this podcast is back tomorrow at four PM.
Tory leadership battle hots up, and all change at Change UK Politics Weekly podcast
"The. The god. This is politics weekly. I'm Heather Stewart Naza time for us to believe in ourselves. What we can. And that's why I am standing to be leader of the conservative party Boris Johnson began his leadership campaign in earnest this week, telling him peas he was best placed to beat labor and put Nigel Farage back in his books. Meanwhile, leadership rivals queued up for an audience with Donald Trump as the US president blew into town for his photo opportunity with the Queen the contest kicks probably next week. So is it still for assist to lose this week? It's all change at change. You pay the six of eleven piece, depart, the flushing party. We talked to one of those sticking with it, Chris, Leslie. That's all in this week's politics weekly. And then there were eleven early casualties of the Tory leadership race this week were Kibble house, and James cleverly who withdrew as the party agreed new rules to weed out candidates with little chance of winning the six front runners with enough declared supporters are burst Johnson Dominic Robb, Jeremy hunt. Michael g-o-v such each of it. And Matt Hancock Johnson is current favorite to be anointed. His prime minister in the week of the twenty second of July, but a month is a long time in politics. Could we be looking at prime minister movement or dope, McVeigh by the summer while I'm joined to discuss all this by Katie balls from the spectator, and Ellie Mae o'hagan and Rafael bear from the guardian Katie was going to say you had a ringside seat at the hustings on Tuesday night, but you, you were the ringmaster hustings on Tuesday night, and we journalists most of journalists were outside in the corridor. Sad to say what, what was the mood like in there in the room managed to get a seat? So I was chairing the discussion and it was one one by one interviews. I think demeanor was fatty polite atmosphere. I think ahead of it, there was some talk that both could be heckled. And it was this is because it was the one nation caucus. So this is the group of conservative MP's headed up by Ambrosia NICKY, Morgan, now, I think there are lots of conservative MP's would describe themselves as one nation conservative term. Isn't it exactly? Specifically this group, they have the declaration of values which relate to things like having a United Kingdom the environment at free enterprise. I think what the best known for is don't like no deal, and they are opposed to nodule Brexit. So both Johnson describes himself as one conservative useless to saying that he went take canoe deal Brexit off the table. So there was some of you that this could be a real confrontation. But I think everyone listened to ever and had to say and before you an hour after gone splash on the front, free newspapers his comments, so love invasion did gap from the then of. Associates. Boris Johnson's pitch is was that he wasn't going to soften his new deal Brexit nine, but he did try and play up of the things that he would have in common with the MP's and the room. I think what's really benefiting Boris Johnson right now is someone called Dominic Robb because compared to Dominic Robb Bros. Johnson, seems less right? Win some of the MP's in the center of the Tory party on various issues, and that's making them think that if they have to have Brexit Hugh, is willing to countenance a deal Brexit. Bruce Johnson is a less bad option than someone like Dominic grump. I'm Michael go wrath last night. At the second round of these hostage not shared by Katie. We should say put himself in different position again. Didn't he said on what the idea of October thirty first? So he's the sort of even slightly more sensible Exeter's. Yeah. This has been Michael goes position for some time, which is essentially sort of the most as it was author, dogs, true believe of breaks. It's here up. To the point of accepting no deals. Because now for a number of reasons that he can't quite go that far and say, you know what? No deal is something we should do partly probably just because he is just a slightly more rigorous serious thinker than some of the people who prepared to go along with no deal. Chatting, I think he genuinely understands the hazard for the state for the economy. That would be involved in that I think, particularly the department that he was in, when he was environment. Secretary just introduced him to a lot of the practical problems that go along with doing no deal. And also, he has to recognize he's very tight cool politician, he recognizes that, you know, between. I think he's absolutely right. What she said about Dominic Robb based carving out this space football to be sort of as it were one row into simultaneous when you've got someone who's out in the oil, being completely bonkers and that's actually quite good position for Boris to be in. And so Michael really has to then pitch himself as insofar as a center of the conservative party unity. Can't that, that would be him. And I think broadly speaking, that is at least logically true. If you did a kind of a growth with a sort of X Y axis that sort of leave one end remain on the other tra- Thatcherite with slash and burn pros therapy on one, acts and one end sort of old skirts, though, wet invest spend money on stuff at the other end, and it sort of scatter plot on that axis of where all the parliamentary Tories are you'd probably find they've pretty much in the middle of that the problem is that being that Younes you can also means you alienate people on various fringes, but he, I think he's probably put himself in fairly tactically, g position and any took him out. Dominic mopping out out in the aisle. There last night's contribution from him was that he'd be willing to provoke parliament to suspend parliament, if necessary to get no Brexit, no deal Brexit food. That's pretty extraordinary, isn't it? Yes. Absolutely extraordinary. And I mean, this is a very cliche thing to save it. I, I wonder what the. Action would have been in if, if a labour MP had said that, I mean, I feel that people would have been saying it Stalinism is going to be tanks on the lawn of parliament square. You know, of course, perogie parliament is a crazy idea. And yeah, I think we should really reflect on what's going on in the conservative party. I think something really extrordinary is happening in that party. That is the case. Katie's ideas that would have seen credibly fringe now in mainstream discussion in the Tory polcy I would save on the parade and parliament comment. Dominic robb. He is that minority view of all the candidates, and actually, like a lot of people have reacted very badly to the idea. You're going to provide parliament, so I mean, it is something that you can't say they would do it in that room. It landed very badly and is interesting that in the hustings chat, every single Brexit he was saying, they would Constance emoji Brexit. So sad Javid. Andrea leads him and Boris Johnson explicit. Early route parading parliament. So I didn't think it is a majority view in the conservative party Andrew, let's inset that she consulted Klux at some point, and had wet this wasn't really viable option such Javid said that he's what parliament had to have a say. So, I think what you seeing is when it comes to Dominic Robb, what of the votes, he is going to try and make the final t now the European research group, that is a great gift, the eurosceptics of the policy that feel most strongly on having clean Brexit. Now, I think by having this dividing line between himself and Boris Johnson. I think it helps Boris jokes in many respects, I think Dominic Robb is trying to pick up this European research group votes to try and get further and free the rans, and he now has something to say, I am more serious about delivering no deal than my rivals less sanguine about the tool, even if it's only a tiny amount even if it's just only grow Francois talking about perogie Parman because Elliott this really is happening here is. Constant ratcheting of the parameters of was a normal discussion about what you should do in this country, further and further away from things that are practical. And so when you hit talk about a sort of global trade breaks or clean Brexit, or no deal Brexit. There's really no discussion of actually involves what practically that means. The reason Dominic Robb way, anyone would entertain parochial parliament is because there is this question of, could you actually persuade parliament, is that some potential parliamentary obstacle to delivering no do? And even the quite moderate will self stop motoric candidates in this race when they sable I wouldn't do not. We Michael go says, will we pretty have to get another extension their explanation is because parliament won't permit no do now? That's a pretty cowardly way of framing it. Because actually the reason not to do is because it's a terrible terrible idea. There's no such thing as a clean. Brexit, immediately often odeal your whole legal system, your economy in chaos your force back into in the Goshi action with the EU but for a much weaker position is properly bonkers. No one was seriously. Counseling in two thousand sixteen or twenty seventeen is only Lanzoni gender now and as the sort of the framing of the debate moves it just becomes a entirely normal thing to this Gus. And when half of the field of Tory candidates are prepared to discuss that quite normally that suggests a as was just said that the conservative parties in, that's a very peculiar place, ROY now when I'm part of that is because the backdrop of the discussion is what's going on impeachable this week where there's a by-election and Nigel. Farage is Brexit party looks as if it might do quite well, right. That's, that's what's in people's eyes were having this discussion. I think there is a sense that the Brexit party if you're going to the various frets to the Tory vote, the Brexit party frat is tina's at greater threat right now than the liberal Democrat vote now it's interesting. Lots of Tory candidates went to say, hey, we can actually win both voters back. I think never skepticism as how you unite voters who have said many times they want to know deal Brexit. They were only take that as being a Brexit that they would accept as fitting. Description, and how you those remained conservative OTC feel very isolated by the party and looking at the nipple Democrats. And I think he looked at the European election. Results teapot, is very well very clear Brexit positions. But completely opposing and that's a riddle I think every main party when it comes to working at had to get a big coalition of voters. I think on the Brexit polity point, there is a general sense, and I think you saw this in the hustings this week that such Javid stage loss of support. Actually, when he said the way to beat the Brexit party is by not being the Brexit party, and I think there are lots of Tory MP's you feel that you need to deliver Brexit. But you shouldn't be doing straight the noise Farraj playbook to do that anyway. Let's talk about Johnson was a briefing with a Tory poster Lord Haywood this week, who was saying he comes out with the most popular candidate. So he's the conduct people most not recognized like he also comes out the most unpopular candidate. He's an incredibly divisive, and polarizing figure isn't he would lay relish, the chance of taking on Boris Johnson to think gem, an election. I don't think that labor would relish taking on Boris Johnson though. I, I also think that we shouldn't underestimate Michael g-o-v is particularly fees. I mean I is total speculation on my part, but, particularly if he's still in contact with his old colleague, Dominic Cummings, then labor probably will be in trouble who, of course, helped run the vote leave campaigns by significant figure in the vote leave campaign. Yes. On this very talented, political tactician. Boris johnson. I think Boras he, he represents the kind of era that we're living in. I think people don't want sort of middle of the road politicians, they do want politicians that are putting to one section of the population, but actually really, you know, who they are, you know what they stand for and Boris Johnson is styling himself as one of those Petitions I think his greatest strength and his greatest weakness is that he will do and say, whatever it takes to advance himself, now that's his strength because whatever the people want he will offer it to them. But it's a weakness because it suggests that he's unreliable whether the fact that he's unreliable is. Of putting enough people not to vote for him is another question. And I would actually add that as much as we're all looking, although I would caveat, the I am alone in this. I have a Messinger person in politics or German agrees with me on this. But I do believe that actually going forward. The Brexit party is the threat, not the conservative party. I think the conservative, we might be seeing end of days with the conservative party. And I do think they could be replaced by the Brexit party, which sounds very extreme and people often bring up the fact that we exist in a first past the post voting system. But what I would say to that is that we did used to have two main parties, the liberal party in the Tory party, and the liberal party was replaced, by the labor party, so labor supporters should know better than anybody. That system can be disrupted, and it is the Brexit party that are speaking, more to the era at the moment down the Tory party. And I do think we're living in an era wet. Nothing is the table wanting. On his on the forest point, which I think festival two things, actually one is that is clear that what he's trying to do this particular stage in the contest is to remind his colleagues, that he was once this very, affable actually quite middle of the road, mortar person one London, two times, the liberal metropolis usually votes labour, a personally don't think that character is accessible to him anymore since he was the figurehead of the leave campaign in the country. I think those people Concepcion's would wish that he could still tap into would that resorts, the he had, then I think, has been crucially following on from that there's a particular sort of parochialism and myopia in the conservative party, but not understanding that everything about the Boris character in the persona and the potential appeal that has English, and about England and it just doesn't translate as I understand to Scotland and Wales and their seats there and is going to be really hard for the conservative party. If it really embraces, this essentially kind of call to ideas of PG Woodhouse in leadership performance thing, it will definitely sort of take a certain bit of electric, but. It's, it's not an obvious route thing for them. I think one of the biggest arguments against Boris Johnson is what would it mean to Scotland? And there is perhaps, not the nicest name for this operation OSs, which is Scottish, conservative efforts to try and keep him off the vatted pay for the final. I take even tickets an acronym and. I think it's just. Perhaps of view and in that staying this. I did. They do think the birth in would be a problem. They think it would limit the chances about, she retaining seats that I would say as a slight shift there because version is looking more likely as a prospect, so you saw reef Davidson, he's very critical Boris Johnson soften her opposition to him. I speaking to squash, conservative MP's this week, he would not verse jumps and Dennis first choice. Hanno plans tin deuce him, but I said, they're trying to find the silver lining of Boris Johnson primary ship and said. And they said the thing is deeply birth with very keen to, to be liked and to try and make the people of Scotland like him. So is like the, the Scottish conservative and peace would get a lot of things they wanted in terms of infrastructure that they suggested that it much bridges. Is the jested that versions would be aware enough of the problem seven, perhaps, give them a lot of their own space? So it'd be much Davidson's territory. He wouldn't try and DT much in Scotland, and that's nothing to do conversations. I've had if they are having to accept the reality is currently Boris Johnson's to lose. How can they mitigate that in terms of the next election who else could still declare so that into twenty committee have changed the rules to try and keep the number of candidates? Dan slightly. We had thirteen candidates. And as you mentioned, the introduction kit, moult highs and James, cleverly dropout now of as we were expecting to potentially for the hat into the race were Steve Baker Graham Brady, I think that's less likely because there's a high fresh Holden temps, the number of its they need before was just to MP's to nominate year. However, is worth just keeping own penny. Morton, I think that's the only person people think might be able to say, I'm running and have the. MP's to match a decent approved at this stage is because quite lots of MP's of come forward and said, who that backing ole miss need penny movement to say, I'm launching and Herod ten MP's I've taken from lease campaigns, which is a bit of an Oscar, but would clearly get acquired attention and momentum. He also there is just as points of the it is no. A great time to be taking this jewelry. There is quite a discernible possibility that whoever wins this contest will go down in history as the shortest, serving prime minister should be becoming forward. Though doesn't seem to deter many where people just look at the challenge and then see the poisoning. Which is quite interesting figure, she would certainly the contest certainly, look rather different if she stood yet penny Morton's really interesting. She has kept a cause fatty close to her chest in the past couple of years. We know that she campaign for Brexit. She lost criticism in the referendum campaign comments on tacky. David Cameron prime minister at the time cool Herat full that and so forth since then she's feed fatty, quiet and cabinet, at least I mean she has made the point on Brexit. But every thought she would resign so many points as Brexit watered down on the list of potential resigned. They wanted to get she managed to stay in and then get this big permission to Defense Secretary, I think that she is seen as someone who has the potential to appeal to center voters if she went to go for it, but I think the problem is lots of these campaign teams having planning this a year, perhaps, even more. And if you haven't done that you need to really know that you have those numbers, and with the MP's I just don't know if a campaign is lab. Right now done the deadlines. Very, very close. Thanks. Everyone will be back after this. Stopping Jewish chip. It's time to focus. I think ultimately that ideologies feeding but it will have a sting in the tail. We see that sometimes with these flare ups and violence today in focus is the new daily podcast from the guardian. Join me a new Donna for the best stories from our journalists around the world. Subscribe now today in focus from the guardian. In economics, there's more than numbers and equations, it's about making the world a better place. I have this interest in ending Wallis why I decided to not meet Esther do flow and other women who are asking the questions that matter with women and economics, a UBS program in partnership with C E, P R the center for economic policy research, visit UBS dot com slash W. I E and join the conversation. Welcome back now, the future looked bright for change. You then called the independent group buck in February when MP's including Heidi Alan chucker Ramona. Serra Williston and una soubra split from their respective parties, and pledged to work together to fight Brexit. Just four months on and six of his eleven MP's have departed following a disappointing performance in Las Muncie, you elections, when it fell to get a single MEP elected on the phone. Now, I have one of those MP sticking with change. You K Chris, Leslie, Chris, tell us what happened the group launched with such kind of fanfare with all these defections from labor in the Tories, and now you, you down twenty five of you. Well, wheel, we all sticking with we've all done this changing British politics, and trying to challenge the established parties is not an easy task that my sound like an understatement. But we've learned that, there are lots of things about when you actually try and into the. Field. And if the public choice, it's quite sort of cartel really between the big, pokey rules, very strict about what you can call yourselves the way in which branded and not just that, but also the ad time that you have, you know, there's no rules, debates and those kind of things, so it's really haunts. Look it's a new penalties. And it's why I think we said politics is broke that we've got to changes, it, it's certainly come home to me that, that there are lots of things to change. We wanted to not just leave our parties. But also give the public choice. There's no point Meese of moaning and groaning about state politics on the back benches. I have to be ready to stand for elections, and that actually the story then goes what happened with European elections and different views thereafter between between 'em page, and that was the main put different socio because as you say they were practical challenges, but they were. Evident also, you know. Personality or views wasn't that between the members of the group. Well, I mean, I think we've we do values. I think there was some tactical disagreements, and principally about whether to stand candidates and whether to, to vote for our flag for all for standard and, and to, to hold us up. And as I said, in some interviews, subsequently, you know, she was of the view that. Didn't take you won't asking people to vote change. You k especially in the last week of the campaign. Now, you could imagine that wasn't the jersey view of the MP's, but stories to set up a pussy. And yeah. And I'm trying to do these candidates to stand just a few weeks. Please vote for us. I'm trying to use diplomatic as I can. But you can imagine that was that was quite a heated discussion. My view is that if you got principles and values you need to be able to defend them when people are you, you need to be able to fend off those attacks falsehoods, set about you, you need to be able to rebut those, of course. And of course, I think some of some of our colleagues CQ tool with the Liberal Democrats wanted to be very nice polite, even to the fence of not, not responding to things that were self evidently wrong for anything on idea that there was some author of deal of all on seats or whatever when, when that was just on the cat. But, you know, away, I think there's a loan whole view of this, which is politics is tough. It's difficult to break into do you continue to find and Chhaya best. Or do you step back and retreat and say it's impossible to do that. I just can't bring myself to say and do you think those if you'll call who've now left mail to end up as Liberal Democrats? They'll not policy think they may. Well be and, you know, I you know, we've agreed that we're going to be friends and keep trying to partnering of working together. And, you know, we want to do not with the, the policies, of course. I just myself con- you know, these party sets out, my views and then say, oh, well, go. One of the established parties. It's to be I don't pretend the little Liberal Democrats in that sense. Well, you know, I do share some of us sitting on Brexit, but there are other issues, national security social policy questions with Lauren order and punishment. Those kind of things where I you know, I don't share that you and I, I think we what we need in the sense. Ground is respect between the distinct three strands center, left social Democrats, and there's more people in the labour party us, three fed up of what's going on with Corbin yesterday tradition. But that one nation considered tradition as well. Now course their disagreements between those if we can respect those work together. I think that's the way to do it. But it doesn't mean all having to merge on political party. Chris Desi thank you very much. Chris Leslie there. Any may change. You K doomed from the start. You think? Yes, it was deemed from the star. I don't blame them's individuals. I don't think we should move away from the argument that they're incompetent as as politicians. That's not what's going on. I think the reason that it was deemed from the stars if you went to anyone of events, which I did, you've been watching form of politics that. Acted as though the wasn't a giant meltdown of the global economy in two thousand and eight which led to the stock, nation of wages for ten years, or there wasn't nine eleven you know, we've lived through an era of twenty years of massive political change, and they were were trying to embody a form of politics that really doesn't exist anymore, and has no cachet anymore. And so for me, their incompetence stems from that fact, it stems from the fact that they didn't know how to do politics in the current air that we live in, and that's why you see all of these kind of madcap, I'd is coming out with them like we not going to have any policies. We're just going to go to the public hung out. You know, we're going to go. We're gonna go to non. Yeah, we're not gonna have a leader. We're, you know, we're all gonna of contribute together to eventual manifesto is going to be, you know, we're not going to have political colors, and it's all very of surface level way of trying to say with different. We're not like the others, we represent change when actually what they wanted was to revert to politics that has died. She can mess right reference. There was something slightly, retro about and it, but it's kind of ironic isn't it because these people who believed that they were fairly good at politics, I think captured certainly stylistically very much that sense that it felt like in terms of the, the way it was projected it did feel a bit of a kind of going through a sort of mid nineties, the social centre liberal political playbook is separate from this point of not necessarily having policies. I mean, the Brexit party famously doesn't really have policies or manifesto, or an organization they've done phenomenally. Well, and I think we're alleyways absolutely right, though is the tactical misjudgement the, the change UK people made two very important separate to the personality issues, which I'm sure factor as well. I mean, if you form a party from people who generally don't get on with other people in that Ponti. That's always a possibility. They wouldn't get on with each other as well. But just poking that the two types misjudgements, they made were actually strategic problems, which were count Yele shins one. I think they really people talking about organization really strongly thought that we would end up leaving the EU. Twenty nine th of March, and that they would be a moment where there was a significant enough conspicuous betrayal, by the labor leadership over its members voters that would be a massive recruitment drive for new politics. But also something that will change you Cape by that stage with NBA source of post Brexit crisis after Brexit wasn't exactly. So they really really thought you were going to have a horrible, messy Brexit twenty nine th of March that turned out to be wrong that wrongfoot to them, and then the other calculation, they made related to that was the lived and Brown was completely toes. There was no point, and they would basically, they would speed off down the road, and they would just be able to put over the bus, but of lib Dem's and go you getting on board award and then drive on. And actually that just that will say literally turned out not to be true, and I think they were quite reasonable gambles but they just put it all on one side of the, you know, their hand wasn't as good as they thought it was. They put it on reading came up, like whatever. But and so once the European election protests came through, and then they will the other little presentation problems. We're going to. Problems having a grassroots movement that you can literally have databases have people to get people out on polling day. There was a bit of a kind of perfect storm that, that sort of them off the out of contention. Really? But I still think they individuals involve deserve credit for standing up and saying the parties that we are in now represent things that we cannot stomach impotent, with and have become to us completely appalling, and lots of voters will share that feeling voters do share that fitting. And therefore, we cannot in good conscience stay in these parties and say that these leaders should be prime minister, and, and for that, you know, still gives them credit crap logo though. Didn't they Katie leg of it's pretty bad? And I think you got she natives have bad the leg was when they put on a bus. Hugh, Hugh, Hugh, the energy drink, Hugh. I think I mean when they changed their name, I think that was an error. I think take the independent sweet sounding what every ingredient from independent group at didn't it was planned. Sometimes, I think you could over plan things that she, you got the sense of it, the logo and the new name change came that had a lot of consulting, and big ideas. And I think it just didn't feel very organic. I think one of the problems was they just sound a little bit arrogant when you went into this year elections, and they said that not going to do this agreement own on aggression, Pat, for the lib Dem's, and we're going to beat the naptime e policies. Do you think it was just if it's a bit naive, and it was a bit arrogant? I think that just didn't do them any favors, and obviously later on, they tried to change tat, but I think there are a few Ariza was, what was strange about it was a lot of people wanted to write the story that this was an embarrassing a centrist party. I think. Their comedy situations to be had, when they launched in that first week, they manage to defend he was, they managed to defy think some expectation of attention lots of attention, but despite that it will seem to go downhill, quite quickly. I mean, wouldn't rule out the possibility that doesn't change you K is going to become a timing force in British politics? But going back to what Ellie Mae was saying earlier, the Briggs is a is a kind of meltdown in the reactor core at the heart of politics. And you could have a conservative leader who more or less behaves in the way that forces, I c significant number of conservative MP's to no longer wants to be part of the conservative party. It's still quite possible. That will be a moment when there are still significant number of labor MP's, who could not run as labor Kansas, if the proposition was Jeremy Corbyn, should become prime minister and being very quiet and the bakery anxious and they didn't know what to do about it, but they all still there still MP's. So we haven't finished this sort of the cycle of real. Reorganization of the way British politics works, and how about fits in party identities. And in through this rigid, I suppose, structure that we have. So this will they might change came up become a footnote in that story. But it is part of an ongoing story, and we should say to that lived M'S success at the euros has been driving force in change. You K spitting laid a leadership contest going on to Ellie Mae. How, how how's that going to go? Well, it looks like Jo swinson is the front runner. I think we'll see how that goes personally, as your listeners may or may not know, I'm a labor supporter and sympathetic not. Not. I hide it. Well, I'm, I'm sympathetic to the Kuban leadership. I would be quite happy for Jo swinson to be from that point of view leader because. Yes, on a superficial level. She's like she's a woman, which is refreshing, she's like dudes in the media and stuff. But she did support. She has supported all of the policies that I think, on poplar anymore because she was minister in that coalition government. Yes, she supported austerity policies. She doesn't really I keep saying this. But we're living in an era of ecological breakdown of massive inequality of stagnation of wages of looming automation. We're living in an era that has massive existential challenges to it. We are living in an era of extreme public anger, and we need a party that respond to that in some ways, the Brexit party can do that in a terrible way. But it can do that. I think bins labor come do that. I think Jo swinson office, more of the same and I think that when she becomes leader and, you know, she scrutinize more on, I think, in general election, that would become a parent. So I actually feel quite relaxed about her becoming the leader. I think she'll get poll bounce. I think that remains will like. But I think I have faith that the British public vote in general elections based on range of issues, and I think she won't be able to escape from being more of the same because that's what she is which always be bit worried about the Liptons you think Katie, they did well in the council elections didn't they in a lot of sort of remained Tori areas was places like Worthing. Yeah, I think lots of conservative MP's worried about lib Dem's and you see that so far in the leadership race. You have candidates like Matt Hancock really pushing the idea that decide to just chasing after Brexit party votes mistaken, because at to win you need to have a wide range of supporters, and that would include lift voters. And I think the lex suggested that they would lose some of those areas and those seats Nandan they currently hold, I mean, the questions about maturing idea about the problems support Johnson, one problem is would he hold his the general election at the moment is predicted that he would potentially lose his seat, because it would be very divided over. Brexit. Somebody's lip Thames. So I think deliver Democrats defect to there. I think that the Brexit puzzle is so hard to solve. It's very hard to see how the Tories retained both. They can also an at least point, I think we might be about whenever we do get that, general election. We might be about to get the Brexit election. We didn't get lost time is unpredictable. Because depending on when it comes into seventeen to toys wanted to Brexit election, they wanted to make the whole thing about Brexit and try and get big majority, which is make it basically do what she wanted. And instead, it was domestic issues that became the main talking point crime, and lots of things. Dementia tax so is very hard to predict what the main factors that breakfast, come to such a point that if it isn't an action soon, it could well benefit lived M'S, if they have the clearest pro Eve's issue, the is the case, generally, the lib Dem's sense. It's kind of normal service resumed for lib Dem's. It might just be mid to place. A little people go to when they need labor. Stories and in the general election, as it will voters go home. The one caveat, I think is important to that is known anyways point about anger. There are lots of people who are very angry about Brexit and very angry. With Jeremy Kuban. And, and you for essentially a betting the Brexit process either passive passenger or in, you know, little people would say, I in various way opinion is divided on his actual motivation is in all of this, but nonetheless that, that segment of voters, I'm no some polling on this just yesterday that around Hof of the European election labor to lip them. Switches say they will stick with the general election. I'm doing anything can happen, but that's a significant enough. Void you not it suggests that further is there's a segment of people who, basically are more if we more important to their more urgent for them in ballot box decision that the nip dams, Jo swinson, or appointive remain than that, Jo swinson unlivable wants the party of coalition with the Tories. And if that's more animating force is a big problem for labor, but I think it's still. Doesn't it? What point in this in this sort of Brexit car question occurs? I guess, actually surprisingly, I would kind of agree with you. You might expect me to do that. But I think first of all, I think it does depend on election comes. I think that's a huge. I guess the reason why I was saying, I think the British public vote on a range of issues because I don't expect the Tories to call general election anytime soon, I think, have to worry that they would lose it, but I actually do agree that labor does need to come out decisively in favor of a second referendum. Now I mean, in the European elections, only forty five percent of labor members voted labour. I think there is no clear signal members telling them something there is no clear signal that they need to back a second referendum. Now, I don't know if I believe them, these were the lib Dem's when they say they'll stick with them not because that's not me being glossy in about the whole thing is just that. I think you can't really believe in his wallet era in this moment. Yeah. What people are saying impose, I don't think they quite know. And I think because of. Anger. The they're liable to change. However, I do think that labor members were giving the leadership message in the European elections. They were saying, we need you to back a second referendum labor is nothing without its mass members it membership. It's nothing without its grass roots, and I am not in favor of a second referendum on a personal level. I would rather leave with us off Brexit and move on as a country. However, I think that it's likely to become policy in labor conference in September anyway. Jeremy Kuban cannot be seen to be forced into it by his party. He needs to take the lead. There is no way out now labor. Just need to back a second referendum. Interesting. We shouldn't let this week passed without mentioning the Donald should we who's been in town. We got the usual sort of tweeting about city Khan, and, you know, flip flopping about the HFS and whether it was a bit of a protest with it wasn't quite as big as last time. He swung into town as he kind of slightly lost his power to shock g thing I think, sadly is I think the from what struck me most really bad. Visit is how. And you need to whatever the some special kind of horrified phones to apply to this. But how numeral it really was. I mean it was a state visit by a president. And there was this kind of horrendous. When your peripheral vision, you were aware of just how polling in horrendous, the Trump presidency is in so many ways, but actually of for him, at least, what could be transmitted back to his domestic audience, which is the only thing he really cares about it was the, the full honor the state can afford apply to a president as it would have been done for any of his predecessors. And, you know, the fact that there was some below the table tweeting that upset people think ultimate big picture really is, is neither here, nor there. And that, again, it's, you know, it goes back to those saying earlier, I think about this ratchet effects that you very quickly. You have to have to work hard to stay shocked because otherwise it will become quite normal situation that this man, this president who is. Has Toronto temperament is hostile to the institutions and the norms, and conventions of liberal democracy is the United States president, and any may Jeremy Kobe went to the protest against Trump made a speech about, you know, kind of appalling values and so on. The press conference that he's team at us for meeting with the president, which the president turn down is is that the right approach. You didn't go to the state banquet, of course, because he didn't feel the red carpet should be should be rolled out for such a precedent was the right thing to do to us to meet him. Yeah. I think he's going to be prime minister, so, you know, we should be being the president's they're going to have to work together. And I think. Mixed approach of meeting him to figure out what each side is going to think of the other plus and a strong statement that the values that Donald Trump represents not the values that the labor party shows is pretty much the only way forward. I think really and Katie, the leadership candidates were kind of quite keen to his imprimatur weren't they? And he doesn't seem to Jeremy hunt. Jeremy hunt got sent to the airport to meet him, you sort of mentioned Jeremy hunt favorably in his press conference does does that help. Does that does that Hindu religious candidate? I think it property helps in some sense, have getting free to MP's because Boris Johnson renew someone that don't Trump is bacon, very positively about. So I think there was a sense that if Donald Trump Woolsey spoke positively about you, you're on the radar, and I've interviewed Jeremy hunt for the new issue the spectator, and he does speak. The guy in so speak about spending a time Trump meeting of the play, and he's left waiting for a while. When f one lands and presumes don't Trump is busy powder in his nose and said he aggressively tweeting about city. She's told as soon as he gets off the flame. I mean, I think it was interesting is city-khan aside, and he was very readable city. Con jonelle Trump is much more polite than his last visit in terms of Theresa May. But the biggest ban in terms of the treaty contest was bike. Go. Oh, you had this press conference. He said, I would be a good prime minister Jeremy hunt, and then he said he didn't know he Michael go was and us, Jeremy hunt. His advice on the matter. And I've ever was reminded that Michael and Donald Trump have met Michael did an interview him and they took a together back when Michael gophers in the wilderness on the back benches. So I think that was probably the biggest Donald Trump of, of the leash contest point was really intentional. I mean you always have to factor in the possibility. He literally doesn't didn't remember that. And he's actually quite GP I almost completely unintentional Vichit, perhaps, it's perhaps more wounding. Only time will tell whether my Cuco can recover from that from that terrible snow. Okay. Thanks, everybody. Thinks way much. That's what we have time for this week. My thanks to all our guests Katie bulls. Eddie, mayo Hagen Raffaelle bear. And Chris, Leslie, the producer was son and found out. I'm stewart. Thanks for listening. For mobile put costs from the guardian just go to the guardian dot com slash put costs.
Isabel Hardman's Sunday Interviews Roundup - 20/01/19
"Hello and welcome to coffeehouse shops. The spectators daily politics podcast on his Hartman. And this is the Sunday round up with the government in severe difficulties after week, which saw Theresa May's Brexit agreement rejected by the largest margin in parliamentary history politicians are now exploring how to break the deadlock for the UK officially leaves the EU on the twentieth of March Andras spoke to the international trade secretary, Liam Fox who warned that the current stalemate could lead to some MP's taking advantage you go to leave population. And our remain parliament parliament has not got the right to hijack the Brexit process because parliament said to the people of this country, we will make we make a contract with you. You will make a decision, and we will honor it what we are. Now getting our some of those who were always absolutely opposed to the result of the referendum trying to hijack Brexit and effect still the result from the people we are apartment to democracy. And that's a very good point. But parliament parliament his supreme the Queen in parliament is super a very good point. Because on this point parliament sub contracted its sovereignty on the issue of whether we stayed in the European Union or not to the people of this country. Parliament said now it said we can't have it back. They said we cannot or will not make a decision on this you the British people will make the decision and then eighty percent of us here in the house of Commons related amount of. Hang eighty percent of those in the house of Commons in this parliament, where elected on a manifesto that said we will honor the result of the referendum parliament gave the public the choice. Then they said they would honor that they can't go back on their word the consequences. Politically would be astronomical mar we'll say spoke to the shadow Brexit secretary circus star despite being a consistent critic of the Northern Irish backstop arrangement Circe was forced to make a concession. Does your deal require a backstop or not I think at this stage any deal probably does require a backstop, and we've got to recognize that there are problems that it didn't. There are problems with this backstop the risks that are real. But but I think because we're at this stage of the excise nearly two years in the charts is now for deal doesn't have a backstop very very slim, and we have to say that in proceed from we've talked through quite a lot of your option one. And so we are now in the position where as we've said the customs agreement across party is most unlikely. Is it's another referendum or no vote or a no deal exit of possibilities left. Therefore in those circumstances. It follows logically that you think that a second referendum is now very like, well, we're the next week or two is when other options are going to be tested one way or the other either if the prime minister won't move red lines, you can see what's going to happen, which is parliament is trying to take control of the process that is that is because people are frustrated with the prime minister this only happening because of that. And I think in the next week or two other options will now be tested one way or another and they need to because parliament needs to be brought it, and if the country gets another referendum, and it's in or out which way will you be campaigning. I will come pain for in on our will vote for in conservative. Brexit rebel NICKY Morgan joint, Sophie rage to discuss a potential change and the house of Commons that has ominously being dubbed a cloak from plot. I mean, it fails palm and is really trying to. Wrestle control of this process. Almost as if there are two governments going on in parliament at a minute. And some of the things that are being proposed. This idea, for example, that MP's could introduce motions that would take precedence over government business. For some people. This will sound like a coup is it. Well, I think is. Visa said it's a strange little coup starts the whole bunch of democratically elected members of parliament. And and this is unprecedented for backbenches business to take precedence over government business, but it is very much confined to one particular issue, Brexit, it's to my mids regret. That are. Fortunately, Brexit, appears to be the only thing that we're able to discuss the moment. Of course, it's important. But I think many people watching this are desperate for their politicians and government to talk about other issues. And frankly, I think the MP's are also very keen to talk about other issues. Many which, you know, very challenging many, which leads to the Brexit result in two thousand sixteen anyway. And so no, I think this is NPR saying this particular issue, we think there is a different way for and we particularly want to make sure there is not a no deal outcome to Brexit or the government will carry on a government will carry on governing ministers in other departments doing doing other things. So so no, I think describe it as a coup. Overblown. However, the former Brexit's secretary Dominic Robb made clear that he wasn't impressed. But the idea of backbenches taking the reins we've seen some of the shenanigans over the weekend an attempt to try and allow a super minority so less than half of them, please to sit in the ginger in parliament. I think that would be an extraordinarily and democratic thing to do. I think as a reality check on this. It's very difficult to do some of these colorful ideas that we floated around, and of course, on the remain side. This split you've got Dominic grieve arguing in the Sunday Times that the Noway option is is very poor deal. And he doesn't support that and equally I think there's much less support than is patch magnified in the media for second referendum that would just create even more uncertainty with you back at square one. I don't think that's what people want where they voted leave or remain in the Cymru's poll in January show, very clearly that by two to one people want these referendums specked it, and I think whether people leave will remain. They want done. They want us to move on talk about the economy public services. We won't be able to do that until we deliver Brexit. So that's what we should focus on and finally labor MP. David Lami has suggested that the second referendum could be crucial for the future of his party. The moment has a rise the clarity and Phan leadership. And for those of us that have campaigned for a final say people's vote. We are absolutely clear that requires the neighbor party to whip. In not done. I think I think that Jeremy has been hedging I recognize that he has had a national leadership role. And if we went back to and a half years is absolutely clear that the labor party light the conservative party was split on this issue. But as we have traveled two and a half years as we see the mess that Theresa May's created as we see the red lines that she has put in place opinions have changed across the country, and they've absolutely changed across the labor party and the labor movement. And now is the time for leadership, and let me say this so fi. There are a small group in our party who are so frustrated who have so much grievance. The fear is they're going to go off and form another party. I personally reject that. But the danger is just like nineteen Ninety-three a new. Party built around. Basically a relationship with Europe keeps the neighbor party out of power for generation how many? I know I dear. But you would have heard the speculation like me one sees colleagues behaving in certain ways. Please let us unite the labor party. Now unite the made the party around the idea, and the concept the ultimately, whatever now happens. It's clear that the British people need a final say on the deal that's going to be hatched in the corridors Westminster in the coming week. That's all for this week. I'm Isabel hardman. And this podcast was produced by Matthew Taylor. Forget subscribe to the coffeehouse shorts podcast on the team store. And we also have a special offer you can subscribe to the spectator for twelve weeks for just twelve pounds. A we will give you a free twenty pound Joe Louis voucher. They're still is so good that to turn it down you'd have to be to resume. You just need to go to spectator coach UK Ford slash voucher. And if you enjoy this podcast do. Scribe to our daily evening blend Email, it's a free round up of all the political news each day along with analysis and the diary on what to expect next. Just spectator dot coach you came forward slash evening planned. Thanks for listening and do join me again next week.
Katy Balls' Sunday Interviews Roundup - 18/11/18
"Hello and welcome coffee has shots. Spectators. Daily politics podcast, I'm Katie balls. And this Sunday round, the prime minister, join safety rich this morning to discuss the government's draw drawer the European Union which was released on Wednesday. The controversial five hundred eighty five page document has already seen two cabinet resignations the host of Genia ones. Meanwhile, several other ministers of thought still be considering that position rich may then pending threat of a no confidence in her leadership. Now this weekend. Your future is hanging by threat content of MP's, we know submitting letters no confidence to the chair of the nineteen hundred committees Graham Brady if that reaches forty-eight, though, be vote of confidence in your leadership. When was the last time that you spoke to Graham Brady spoke to prescribe Brady at the end of last week. So do you know? I hotel regular conversations with Greg. But let me just as the fortune that this just grand Brady will make it known if forty-eight that is reach Graham Brady will wait that. No. Let me just far as I know the answer your question is no. But it is sorry. Just answer the questions that the fourteenth limit has not been reached as far as I know. No, it has not. But let me just address this issue about the question of leadership as I say to me this isn't about me. It's actually about what's right for the country. And as far as I'm concerned, I'm going to be distracted from actually the important job in this critical week of negotiations of making sure we do get that final good deal for the country. But, you know, change of leadership at this point isn't going to make the negotiations and easier, and he's not gonna change the parliamentary arithmetic what it will do what it will do is bring in a degree of uncertainty, that's uncertainty for people and their jobs. What it will do is mean that is risk that actually we delay the negotiations, and that's a risk that Brexit gets delayed or frustrated on clear people voted for us to leave. We will leave. We'll leave on the twenty ninth of March two thousand. Nineteen. Also into the labour leader, Jeremy Kuban for his reaction to the prime minister's draftable stem, Jeremy Corbyn can fans lay physician Rita vote against it in parliament. So which challenged him and how he would do things differently in just three months. Do you really think you could negotiate a Benadryl is that taking two years to get to this point is very used to eleven thou- stuff? Look at the way, the Lisbon Treaty was negotiated renegotiating renegotiated again. The issue has to be you. Go back to Europe say listen, our parliament doesn't agree with this doesn't accept people this country. Don't there are jobs of both summits of the risk here. We need an agreement serious sensible agreement, and I believe the labor options of the serious ones could achieve that. So just go back to the EU and awesome very nicely. Thank give to the core business. They want an agreement just as much as everybody else does the problem is this government has not negotiated infective agreement with so you think you could do it in three months. We would go there straight away. And there is a transition period that it's been agreed anyway. So there would be some opportunities there. But of course, the hat you have to go back and say, look what's been agreed so far between our government in the U is not acceptable to the British parliament. Or I suspect the British people and it hasn't yet been tested in the EU parliament either look at your six task because it's something you mentioned at the beginning. Interview and something that many people just don't think could be possibly by anybody, including yourselves, perhaps do you really think you'd be able to get a deal that would meet those tests, including one of them, which is that it would deliver the exact same benefits as being in the single market. When how'd you get and that if you let Freeman just if you have a trade agreement at customs union a customs union with the then you do get the same benefits of trade. You do get the same benefits of the way in which are manufacturing. Benefits in this single. My so inextricably where do those words come from the government themselves Nater, and you Molly during for the former Brexit secretary Dominic Robb, he resigned at this week. He described a Northern Irish backs of arrangement in that agreement as a very real fret to the integrity of the United Kingdom, Robin Taylor. He still supported the prime minister. But I the current draft agreement lesson look to be desired who negotiated this. Dominic Robb was the team effort, and I came in July a lot of work being done before. So mixture of the cabinet me as Brits executory Davis before we deputise for the prime minister. So as your deal, and you resigned. I think we got very close to a deal that will be faithful to the referendum sensible and pragmatic. Remember, I took this post after the checkers announcement, which is very controversial. I want to make a success of this. But to three of the changes as I said in my resignation letter. I'm afraid rented this deal fatally flawed and in good conscience when you think about the long-term good of this country ecconomic -ly democratic when I let my kids in the I think what will this country like in ten years. I didn't feel able to sign up to this. Does this deal mean that we leave the EU in your view emotionally? Yes. But for example, I think it takes very predatory approach to North Island. If you look at it the analysis. The cabinet was told told no nine we will be treated the third country for regulatory purposes that's consistent with keeping the union together. The bridge threatens the union that was one thing. Secondly, the bridge from the end of the implementation. Period to the future relationship. We combination of customs union Sigmar with no possibility to get out democratic country in history has set as ever signed up something like finding. Okay. Final point that it's the outline future relationship, but it point to makes clear that far from the checkers proposals or even a candidate engine actually, the permanent basis of future relationship will be this customs union single-market hybrid debilitating for the economy, my view, I don't street the basis for going forward authorize devastating for trust in our democracy. Given the promises we made at the last election because I have to say I've supported this prime minister all the way through permission. I still do. Now. We've yes, let me explain we were close to deal and actually if these two or three points, which I still think a deal could be done, but it's very late in the day. Now discusses fast minutes, nNcholas Agean, usas Tamar often have that and the drafter agreements surprise prize. It was not good Tory MP's gaming, what might happen next and the house of Commons include a scenario where the SNP's block of MP's abstains on the withdrawal. Vote is that gonna happen? As things stand. Just noted the MP's will vote against what is being put before the house of Commons. And let me say very clearly why. But also set a clearly I think should happen. No withdrawal agreement and I've played through five hundred plus PG's over it has lots of flaws within it. But more fundamentally that is cloudy whatsoever about the future relationship between the Yuki and the EU. So the house of Commons is going to be asked to fake Tivoli endorse a blindfold Brexit. We'd all the difficult issues. That have dogged these negotiations for two and a half years are simply kicked further down the road. I think it would be a mistake and deeply responsible for the house of Commons to endorse that, but it's not enough for people to see what they reject. There's no also need for Cam hates and clear thinking and for those who reject this deal to come forward with the alternatives, and I think that are two weeks forward. They're not mutually exclusive. Freshly for the house of Commons. Corliss around a clear direction of travel that would keep the Yuki within the single market on the customs union and also the option of another vote because wherever people voted for twenty sixteen. They did not vote for the prevailing. No, I hope to be in London liter this week. And I think it is incumbent on opposition parties to come together to look at cleared attentive. That is in the chase of people anthem rate of the U K. And finally, the recently most praxis minister was equal. He also happens to be a Brexit tear has defended the prime minister's steel. However, he did contradict one fundamental point interview was safety ridge. What did the prime minister mean when she said this crisis could stop Brexit happening at all the notion is that people who are opposed to the deal that say they're opposed to the deal for different reasons on the holy alliance between people who want to stay in the U for whatever reason and people who think that the deal isn't strong enough. They hope so. So the deal is, but they can't stop us leaving. They cannot going to leave on the thirtieth much. Because there's there's a piece in an in the telegraph today where the prime minister was talking to conservative associations about the deal. And she raised the possibility there of there being version, the house of Commons for referendum is the government concern that that could happen. On the thirtieth of March. One thing is for certain we will have left the EU. That's something that we're very focused on now in terms of the deal. I think if it were to be done, I didn't think it will be. I think it is a very strong chance that it'll get through. But if it were to be that all that does is reopened the question, and prolonged uncertainty and chaos and brings it be started cannot be stopped. I'm quoting Jeremy, Corbyn fact, all to this week, I'm Katie bulls. And this podcast is produced by Matthew Tena, delegates describes the coffee hashes podcast on the chance to have a special offer. For a limited time, I try to the spectator in print and online for free. Just visit spectator Dakota Kate for trial. And if you joy this podcast usas described her daily eating bland EMA is a free round of all the political news each day along analysis and at diarrhea, and what to expect next. Just spectator. Katy k four slash evening bland. Thanks listening and join us again next week.
The Morning Briefing: Friday, April 17
"Allo I'm Danny Boyle with the briefing from the Telegraph. It's Friday April the seventeenth and the government's resisted giving more lockdown clarity. So just when. And how will Britain's lockdown end as Chris was telling you last night Dominic Robb failed to sets out a timetable for lifting the restrictions? He announced they'll continue as they are until at least may the seventh. He sets out to check place. That must be met before. Social distancing can be lifted Camilla. Tommy's analyzed the five pronged action plan and global health security editor. Paul new key outlines. The strategy is Britain needs to be following two big developments overseas early today. I Wou Han revealed its death tolls fifty percent higher than previously disclosed. China also reported its economies contracted for the first time in nearly five decades China correspondence. Afia Yene has what you need to know about both those updates and in America Donald Trump's published state guidance for how to get people back to work. Now you'll remember the call your NHS needs you off to health secretary. Matt Hancock called for volunteers. An army of seven hundred and fifty thousand Britons were recruited to help the vulnerable bonds. We've seen data showing. They've been given fewer than twenty thousand tasks correspondent. Bill Gardner spoken to volunteers who've been waiting and ready on alert for hours but given nothing to do you can read his exclusive reports and a full nights ago captain till more set himself a challenge to complete one hundred laps of his garden in time for his hundredth birthday sponsored walk was to raise money for the NHS by this morning. He's raised an astonishing seventeen million pounds. He's given us an interview and displays his typical modesty rights. They put if you're listening on. What'S APPLE? Send you those links. Now if you're listening on spotify apple or wherever you get your podcast you'll find them in the show notes as well as links to some non corona virus material including proof it last the evidence that shows Einstein's general theory of relativity to be right and the mystery of the Imperial War museums missing portrayed of Hitler. That's it you're up-to-date Chris. We'll have your second briefing of the day this evening.
Has the DUP caused more problems for Theresa May in Brussels?
"Unwelcome to coffee show, suspecting daily, political across. I'm NAR Pentecost today joined by James and Katie booze. So parliaments back and trees. Amazed Brexit problem seemed to restarted again at this point. It seems the DP is the biggest problem James would up to. So all the leader DP is in Brussels today meeting Machel volume, and she's giving a press conference, and she's removed the bit of wiggle room that people forgeries may might have on the backstop, which is there was some excitement that statement released last night suggested that while she didn't want any regulatory checks on goods going from great Britain's Northern Ireland only read lawing was checks or goods going from knowing onto great person. But this morning I and infield radio alster. And then in Brussels, she's clarified. She said, no, no, no. Any barriers between GB and Oregon? I've away would be unacceptable to them and we're now left one. Wondering what the government is going to do on the backstop? Yeah, I think there is a wave up to Mizan across Westminster yesterday afternoon. The statement came out something that James documents don't coffeehouse because it did appear to provide some real room for Theresa May. The government needs to get you. Rejoice Bill basically unites substantially land in the next couple of days into next week before they have the next big issue council meeting one of the crucial issues as I wish border. And this is just that that trees may be able to bunch of it that is not happened on the info completely wrote the and I think there is a reason to think that she is suddenly going to change Herat line and that poses a big problem to this government because there are some in government. He do think that they can band city EP and submission that actually when push comes to shove, the people just have to like lump it because they're not gonna vote down the government and pave the way to Jeremy Kuban some and he is more against their values on the conservative government. But this is also the that we have had my favorite eversource quip from, but. Described negotiating position. They said, well, we're waiting for someone to blink. We caught her eyelids of that. They're not one to bend, and I think this is the problem. I don't see how they've really gonna change their mind, and that means if they persevere by saying that we would not have any difference treatment to Nova nonce. The rest of the UK not means I think number Tanka either be pushed into a softer Brexit. So one Weaver form of customs union, not something that really want before Brexit or no deal Brexit, which you know raises questions, but would mean theory that the whole year k. is treated the same. It was close to DP leadership last week and they were making the point. One of the things animating the p. position is, but they are very suspicious that number ten is about to try and bounce them. They are getting whispers back from Brussels, UK mummy proposing behind the scenes and they don't like the sound with. So I think what you're saying is going to preemptive strike against that. I'm, there's a big question Henry's made it because it's well from bring everyone was lost symbol when the DP pulled the plug on the initial version of join report led to pyro fifty United to it, which basically says that none of this means any barriers between northern on a great person, but juries may went back to sign off on that version of joy report without the DP's Essent. She tried to get it morning foster. She couldn't and she decided that she had no choice, but to go and sign the deal anyway on run the risk of the DP. I wonder if this were damaged had again that they will try to join the UPN, but. Ultimately, when push comes to shove, if they feel like home epide- p to move, they will run the risk and is big risk case. He was saying that the DP in Germany to recently UP would never do anything that might create risk of Jeremy Corbyn government given his previous views on the IRA, his openness to ours unification when he is positively good fake, but I understand that DP happy, emphasizing two cabinet ministers and were doing to re conference. But if preserving the union as aces requires running the rescue, Jeremy, Corbyn government, they would take that risk expecting softening statement by Dominic Robb where he'll be updating and peas on the Brexit negotiations, and the audio say, can be discussing next steps. James, we have a sense of what they're going to planning. This is the big question now which is, and again, to the case, there's programs morning, which is if you lose DP, suddenly the number of LG rebels, the government could do a job and get it down to say below twenty. But that commodity DP it's still very haunt, see how they may not with labor peace. This team is so key because if you take knowing DP, votes out of the equation, suddenly the rebellion becomes more significant. I mean today just wars to see what their mood is in the train and having an hound difficult way on prepared to be to government has fake today the number of forty rebels as an that passing on it. I think fell time you get to the vote as an expectation. That number probably reduce a bit because when push comes to shove, some will actually think actually that's just get out. And then that's trying refine later. The Michael gave approach. This search answer that there is a big concession before we get there, and it becomes very heartless to sound becomes a big number. But I think all the signs of the moment suggests at she say, you might have around twenty g rebels. If you can get h- your labor MP's around twenty here represent leave constituencies. You can see how they would perhaps get over. The line, I think what hasn't helped Archie? It's being the reports over the weekend, you know about the different pants down the budget, and and then you had been in Jenkin, denying them, and it definitely they seem to be fighting each other lots of the time. And I think that's been a big problem in recent months where the hasn't been a clear alternative and they did it like a group to haven't actually decided that best hat tickets, partly because I think they thought they had a lot more patently do. It would be your skeptics wasn't the Judean people's run to the People's Front of Judea. And every one of the reasons why the numbers will reduce the time comes the risk. If you wrote down the deal, you maybe you get a second referendum on Brexit. But I think also is home to believe. Now we can have an academic conversation about whether for government started preparing as it should is on the new deal from the morning off the referendum ever. It would be a viable option, but given the preparations only seriously started this summer. I mean, there's a real question about whether no deal with do. New new deal with essentially insure Corbin government at some point in the future because the chaos will be to the public body Alvis Conran above analysts for police ain't Dominic Robb Sandton as he has been today to resume in the chamber update prac- stays on the situation and there's lots of people who thought to resume should be the one giving today's statement, which is the most recent one on Seoul's back because parents being away the conferences. But I think one of the reasons Hannah quite keen to have Dominic Robb who can this. It's not just that they want to resume to get tricky questions from backbench. MP's is Dominic. Robb is ultimately Brexit here. So anything is of a safer face at them when they have difficult things to say, and finally onto labor who omitting this plan for four day week Katie, what do you make a good idea? I mean, I think it's an interesting idea was good also had degreen party last week, their conference suggesting that we need to look people's recess, so that downtime way to measure happiness and that was suggesting the implication was people spend much time at work. This takes a step further if it's too to actually go free because it does suggest a neighbor government, try and legislate a food week. I think lots of my friends have quite flexible working hours and actually he looked more more people who are self employed. So people do choose to kind of work as they want. I'm quite uncomfortable. The idea of legislating those if I want to work five days, I'm not supposed to have to have some line of work around James labor coming up with these ideas. At this point, the only country in popular they show for the workers and it's gonna closet. Marxist philosophy is basically some point. People should be liberated from work well or the union actually can work as an empowering thing. So, but believing this, this will be one of the big political contentious reason times as you say, the greens to measuring time more with only there's been this incredible tunnel change and poetry what people expected. It hasn't actually lots people produce. More free time is actually produce more. Were. Working time. And I mean political about this four day weekend, very crude idea. But let's go on to my question of not definitely. I, let's go territory. Thank you, James, and thank you.
The Evening Briefing: Tuesday, September 23
"Good evening I'm Chris Price with the briefing from the Telegraph. It's Wednesday September, twenty third and the chancellor's poised to unveil a successor to the furloughs game. So that has a problem, his fellow schemes closing next month having protected millions of jobs through the lockdown, but the resurgence of covid nineteen tougher restrictions with pubs and restaurants to close by ten PM with experts warning the economy could slide back into reverse this autumn, the Treasury's working on a Furlough Success A. Chance to the set to give a statement to the Commons tomorrow on his plans to protect jobs it's reported. He may be considering subsidizing wages work can work fifty to sixty percent of the normal hours. But what other options are available? Tim. Wallace is out. The point is the chancellor could take from other nations. Tonight will say his stomach given national address on the BBC following the prime minister's broadcast lost night. He'll be talking about the government's covid response for secretary. Dominic Robb issued a stark warning to the public today. He said if the krone of our rules aren't abate, Britain could face the second lockdown by Christmas comes as the UK's recorded six, thousand, one, hundred, seventy, eight new cases of covid nineteen in the last twenty, four hours. That's the third highest daily total since the pandemic began our live blog has the latest. You may be familiar with the huge queues of lorries through Kent. When this trouble at the port of Dover and Michael gives today revealed lorry-drivers will need a permit to access the county after the brexit transition period ends in a bid to avoid the possibility accused of seven thousand trucks. If there's trouble getting through customs when crossing the channel, how politics lifelock around what Mr Golf said. And the Sussex's urged people in the US to vote in the upcoming presidential election his appearance alongside his wife in a video broadcast risks diplomatic row after he called on Americans to reject hate. Speech Louisville that you can read why malls is dropping its oncle Ben's brand and how Hollywood filed Rita Hayworth. That's it. You're up-to-date Danny will have your next briefing tomorrow morning.