19 Episode results for "Dick Johnson"

#246: True/False, Pt. 2  Dick Johnson is Dead

The Next Picture Show

1:10:38 hr | 10 months ago

#246: True/False, Pt. 2 Dick Johnson is Dead

"Thanks to masterclass purse supporting the next picture show you can find hundreds of video lessons from today's most brilliant minds available anytime anywhere on IOS android desktop apple TV at Amazon. Fire TV get fifteen percent off your annual all access pass at masterclass dot com slash picture show support for this podcast comes from Microsoft teams. Now, there are more ways to be a team with Microsoft teams bring everyone together in a new virtual room collaborate live building ideas on the same page and see more of your team onscreen at once learn more at Microsoft Dot com slash teams. Keep the line between the past. Visa someone out of the past. And turned take session of. The. The Path but the. Is Not through with us Welcome. Back to the next picture, show a movie that we podcast a classic fill. In the way it shaped our thoughts on recent release I'm Keith Phipps here again with Scott Tobias genevieve Kofsky and Tasha. Robinson. In Our last episode, we talked about Orson Wells nineteen seventy-three film F for fake a not quite documentary about forgers authenticity and the meaning of art. This week we're bringing in Dick Johnson is dead in which Cureton Johnson documents that kind of her father with occasional breaks to stages death depict afterlife in Heaven Dick Jaspers dead is Kirsten Johnson's second film's director but. Like. It's predecessor the work of someone with a long history making movies her first royal effort. Camera Person Wolf together scraps footage from her years as a documentary cinematographer into memoir made up of out takes from throughout her career with Dick Johnson is dead she pushes the autobiographical instinct even further with her father psychiatrist Richard Johnson is I noticed with dementia. She decides to turn his decline into project by staging his death for the camera with his enthusiastic participation. What follows is a rumination memory movie illusions death at what remains after work on we'll talk over after the brain. Idea that I might ever lose this man. Too much to bear. His my dad. Let's. Start. Walking to me that's fantastic. I suggested we make a movie about him dying. He said, yes. She kills me. Multiple Times Act. Resurrected Yeah. Now it's upon us the beginning of his disappearance. Hate most about my memory loss is it hurts people's feelings. That you woke in the middle of the mate last night. Yeah. Fully dressed to remember any of that. What can we do that? I don't know. Everybody has sort of prepared because everybody dies. Too, much for that. So did Johnston's dead everybody movie a lot a lot a lot what about that what everybody else I mean I'd seen this film at true false. It was one of the last things I saw and when last conversations I had with her before everything shut down. And when? I saw it I was thinking there's just no possible way. I'm going to see a film that I like more this year so far that's held though I guess a lot of movies have not come out to challenge it but I'm obviously a pretty huge fan of it I think it's kind of a magical experience in that it is a film that I think Whoa. Phyllis with thread to watch you know this idea of Kirchen Johnston filming her father's decline but she's turned it in situations, spun it in such a way to where it's frequently. Joyous and Fun and palatable thoughtful in you know and also on top of everything else a marvelous deconstruction of nonfiction filmmaking. So I think it's a rich film and emotional and it's like at the time I thought it was like this is like an obvious curious Tommy film that like my parents could see it'd be fine. So I'm a big Fan. If we had already done close up, it would make a good parent with close up. Yeah. No arguments here big data's as many as a big fan of camera person and I like how this feels like camera person like a very personal film but in a totally different way and using just totally different methods. But that are still very much about the tools of filmmaking but there is also the factor of Richard Johnson himself who is just such A. This movie wouldn't have worked if he was a different sort of man than he is like it comes through in every frame even though he is you know kind of deteriorating over the course of the movie as far as his dementia goes, but he never really loses at least that we see that sort of essential. I don't know spark whatever you. WanNa call it. I think compelled her to use him in this way in this film and that compelled him to say, yes to participating in this film like it's very, very extraordinary thing that she asked of her father and that he did so willingly and seemingly happily you know normally that's the kind of thing that you would put into the realm of extra textual but that's not a line that matters with the smoothie i. don't think but yet I'm there's a lot to talk about this movie. I want to hear what others think about it, but you will you will hear no no disagreement from this quarter about it being a great film. I don't know how rationally are critically I can discuss this film. It hit me a way too hard. I don't know that I recommend it for people with parents or people who love their parents or people who are watching their parents age lake I. This is this is a great phone for six year olds with young healthy vibrant parents and anybody after that I'm not sure about. It's a lot. It's. You're watching somebody slowly die on camera and you're watching his daughter cry about it and talked to him about it and process it in real time. You're watching the process of her challenging, both of their limits and both of their experiences in both of their understanding and it's Pretty Daring. But why is it I want to say rock and then at the same time, you have these just like lambeth fantasy sequences that are exactly the opposite of that. That are these just strange lake kurita level fantasies and it's very hard for me candidly put it all together or a really address it in any sort of thinking way I dreaded going into this movie a little bit and I came out kind of thinking what am I doing if I recommend this to people, I had to talk to another film critic about it today some one who did lose a father relatively recently in his this clearly is still very emotional about it and You know we had to talk about it in terms of. The kind of need to be prepared going in, and you kind of need to be in the mind space for it. You kind of need to give yourself some breath afterwards before you sit down to talk about critically. It's it's definitely not like a late. You know Sunday afternoon. What are we gonNa Watch with the kids kind of movie it's it's it's painful and frank and deny already say, Darren I. Think it's pretty daring as I usually do when I hear some of the festival everyone loves I don't read that much about it and I just kind of new about and avoided spoilers in the one I went to watch it on on Netflix. Do the sort of very concise netflix subscription with the booze about is like. and. They focused on the whole faking the deaths aspect of it or stimulating the death. Doesn't really sound like something that personal camera person would make and also sounds frankly little tacky and then you see it in the film and its it's remarkably sunny understand why it's there and understand that it is in a strange but totally understandable way. Allows him to process what they're going to make in a way to kind of mix. But also deals at the same time. There's a lot going on in this movie in a movie. I would I would happily I know is an intense experience but there's a lightness to it as well and as movie I would happily watch again it's it's not something I. would dread a second view enough and do you think it's tacky though I think it's deliberately Tacky I. Think he kind of revels in the tacky. I mean there's a sequence where they fake her father's death via at like keystone cops level of construction worker with a giant board with a nail sticking out of it gets distracted and accidentally swings into her father's throat as he's walking along a sidewalk in New York and then he sprays arterial blood everywhere lake. That's silly. I mean you're watching somebody bleed out and die in public due to a tragic accident but you're also watching something that's a little bit grand guignol and a little bit as a keystone cops. I think that there is a tackiness to it and the vision of Heaven. I think there's a tackiness to that as well. It's downright gleeful it. It certainly extremely intended but that doesn't mean it's not tacky. It just means it's intentionally tacky moving either the dance sequence with with his his late wife or you know quote unquote late wife is that's incredibly moving stuff and so beautifully. Shot at all of that stuff just shot in this like super slow motion, super high def where you can just appreciate every line and every aspect of the choreography and the physicality of the dancers at that battle sequences pretty remarkable a lot of ways and the expression of a Dick Johnson's face to his remarkable presence to I. Think to be a good psychiatrist you may be have to have just. Empathy. But he just has. It's very open openness about it which I also kind of pick up I feel like as part of. At least secure. Johnson. We get know via her films part of her personality as well. Yeah. I was reading some interviews with her prior to this recording and she thinks of herself as a funny person. You know she in this piece she says, you know there was one laugh and camera person I was like we made an hour and a half long in there was one laugh. So I was really committed to there being humor in this film and You know I think it does function is a comedy and yes, there is certainly tragedy there. But I've cried this movie in Maimi emotional. But I ultimately came out of it feeling like I had had on balance of more joyful experience than sorrowful one in again like I said I think Richard Johnson. Himself is a huge part of that and in another interview with our friend Rachel Hander she actually put this is actually Rachel's words in her introduction she says. Here are two people who love entrust each other. So deeply that they'll joyfully confront death together before it's even arrived and I think just the the connection between them and the same paddock Oh nece between them as far as this project it wasn't that it made it not sad but it made it more palatable for me I guess or made me you know it made me sad in a in a happy way I cried this movie the way I love. To cry at movies you know we talk I've talked about being a movie cryer before and most of this movie I was at some stage of of teary you know but it never felt like it was overwhelming me or too much. It's bittersweet. Yeah and I also, Kinda WanNa go back to the staging of the deaths and then being as Tasha said tacky or these sort of absurd and and they are to a certain extent but they are also all. Grounded in a sort of real his you know again with in that interview with Rachel she says, you know we started working with. NETFLIX'S I had a budget ahead of time for the first time in my life psychic. Think really big I imagine you travel the globe put my dad on an ice floe and float him out go to Hong Kong and have him jump out of the building and catch on fire. Then it became totally obvious that. My Dad couldn't do that. He's a fragile eighty, six year old who doesn't have tos danger of tripping and falling in I realized all of that was escapist fantasy ground level falls in fact, are the most frequently that elderly people die and so the deaths that happen in this movie, he falls down the stairs you know obviously getting walloped on the street is a little more heightened, but it could easily happen. They're all very tied to the place. He is in that moment like the board with a nail in it comes shortly after he's moved to new. York, to live with her and we also have that fake out of him getting hit by a car. You know in these are dangers to elderly person that are very tied to the place. He is. Now just as falling down the stairs is very tied to the place he was leaving, which was the house where he lived alone so. Obviously the dots themselves away their stage they're done. So in a way that they don't feel quote unquote real in a visual sense necessarily but they think are intended to feel real in terms of who Richard of the life that Richard Johnson is is leading I. Think there's also I mean there's that element of fantasy at play to the in that. Those deaths are all quick deaths I mean both of Kitchen Johnston's parents were long goodbyes were. Where parents were young mother had Alzheimer's FA father has dementia still alive by the way? Yeah. No as of today article that posted today Dig Johnson incidentally is currently safely stationed in a minimally occupied home for dementia in Maryland. So she wanted enough well, and also this is, of course, an attempt to make him live forever in movies right so there's that touching element to i. think the ending is just like astonishing like the way that plays out I. It's just so moving and so his. His his That was something that. Before I'm talking very that was rough I thought you meant the the. The the closet of timber coming out being there But Yeah No of course of course that whole sequence I mean you talk about just purely heartbreaking or? Moments that is pretty overwhelming but but it's punctuated with that horn. Horn. Which is probably the biggest laugh in the movie and it's a laugh you feel weird about. All the laughs in this movie are kind of laughs you feel weird about I think intentionally. So in that I think is just peak. Weird laugh. I. Think it's meaningful that that's the laugh where she pans around the crowd and finds other people that are looking dismayed or fighting back laughter at she's she has kind of queuing to you like, yes, this is ridiculous. It's it's OK laugh but then she cuts to the that man ray Dick Johnson's best friend just sobbing his heart out off to the side during the course of this funeral and there were a couple of moments in this film where I wondered like is this expletive is this Any attempt to push the boundaries as she pushed the boundaries too far, and one of those moments came when she admits that she doesn't know where her father's boundaries are anymore. She doesn't know when she's gone too far when it becomes an appropriate and she also says, he'll do anything for me. He will do anything I asked him to do and that just made me wonder at times like. Are there points that goatee far. There's the point where he's standing there covered in blood and he says this is worse than my heart attack was the hardest part. there. There are points where I questioned like is this elder abuse I? He's a good caretaker hover father meet me all segment with Ray just in particular I just had me wondering lake where is somebody comforting him? You know whereas somebody helping him through this and it might have happened one second after the camera cut away. But you know you're left with that image of a man. disconsolately weeping over something that hasn't happened yet, and you know that not only is he suffering now he's going to suffer through all of this again at some time in the future if he outlives deck, it's it's hard to watch. But the thing is like it has happened I think the point of that funeral is that like in Johnson has said this in interviews like she's not going to have a funeral for Dick Johnson when he passes that was his funeral because these people had already experienced like the sort of long goodbye of her mother his wife and you know at at that point his dementia, it is already a point of fact. Everyone knew what was coming and it's it was a good. Bye was a good. Bye to the Richard Johnson they knew and I agree with you that I think ray is probably the point in the film where I feel like it edges closest to exploit taste I have to. Believe that she cleared that with him but she also has spoken to the realization of needing to put herself in this movie like you can't just put this all of this sort of emotional load onto your father and and leave yourself out of it. You have to put your voice in it and speak to your emotions in your comp in the complications your feeling otherwise. I think that exploit hated feeling would've come through even more strongly I. Think it's tempered by Johnson kind of engaging with it and engaging with win. It's hard and when it feels like it was a bad idea and she's not sure if what she's doing is is bright but in the end I think that you know what she comes away with is like such A. Beautiful Portrait of her dad at this stage of his life you know, and then if you extrapolate to who he was before, we are actually spending time with him. I think it's a gift to her father. I think that just kind of negates any discomfort around exploitation for me. Personally, it'd be. It's a joyful collaboration for one and the one thing I always think about too is that she doesn't have footage of her mother before her mother was lost essentially to Alzheimer's and. This is this is a chance to capture her father in his essence. You wonderful sense of this very positive thoughtful carrying. Man and and how much the father daughter you know mean to each other and this is something that she can have treasurer forever this whole experience and be able to share with us. It's fantastic. Weird like it'd be. You know obviously palatable I guess is the word. I mean I guess we're we're Tasha kind of departs from the rest of us a little bit. But given the film's project given what it's trying to do with the reality of the film is I think it does so much to try to. Give you a sense of joy and fond in Whimsey and kind of a bittersweet quality that keeps it from being dirge I. You know but but again, it has to do with your personal response. I'M NOT GONNA. You know obviously minimize Tushes here clearly as also movie about somebody WHO's Dying going through a lot of really tough things and you know the daughter is having to experience all that too. So that's all there and is certainly. this is the film punches you in the Gut to all right while there's plenty more to talk about it but we're talking about it in the context of the previous film impaired. The swift effort fake will talk that over after the break. What's it giving take masterclass for supporting this episode the next picture show with masterclass you can learn from the world's best minds anytime anywhere and at your own pace and a lot. 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Next picture show listener, you get fifteen percent off the annual all access pass Goto masterclass dot com slash picture show that's masterclass dot com slash picture show for fifty percents off masterclass. So. This is what I'm going to stick your neck. This is where the blood will actually come out of this is going to go along here. and. All of this is going to go back down through your wardrobe on here and then I pump the blood under there was forces it to just shoot. Rare From the makeup song. By real blood. Crazy that? Never, thought you just explain to me how you doing. Face alive. Transformation? They don't want to good. I like my blood are accustomed to it. You can hang onto all of your blood drop of your blood will fill his plan. You feel comfortable with. that. Great I would say just keep saying the words fake blood that's only all through. Yes. Time for connections when you bring these two films together and talk about all the things they have in common what are we start here? I? Guess they're concerned with authenticity in their own way. How do they differ in their approaches to talking about what's real and what's not I mean I think one thing that's significant is that Kirsten gives you so much of. The. The behind the scenes that was asking for as we wrapped up talking about effort fake that sense of. Know where all this footage comes from I want to know what they stitched together to create this artistry because he's emphasizing so much that it's all artistry than it's all false. And by contrast Kirsten less, you see the setup, she lets you see the casting for the stunt doubles that are going to die in her father's stead. She lets you see the the makeup process and the like assembling the props and the rehearsal, and then she lets see what the the re-creations look like. So there's never any sense with most of the re-creations with one notable exception that he's under any threat or that you should be concerned about anything you see because she goes to the trouble of exposing the artifice at every level and exposing to some degree kind of the challenge in the buildup. It's kind of a fun little kind of behind the scenes of like many. A behind the scenes for a youtube video, essentially like a here's here's the stunt but here's everything that went into the stunt and some of the sequences are actually really fun. I kinda love the the casting the stuntman sequences where you've got Dick Johnson like walking back and forth and these young burly tattooed men who look nothing like him walking back and forth in his shadow paying attention to how he stoops where he puts his arms like the length of his stride that sort of thing. I can't had a moment of why would they cast these like young muscular dudes on like one of them has guns bigger than his head like they'd thing look nothing like him and then they costing them up and pad them out all of the sudden. They look a lot like him I I kind of enjoyed Dick Johnson just as a tiny little micro lesson in some of the artifice of filmmaking. Again in that interview with Rachel which I'm just I'm going to make sure we lincoln our show notes because it's a it's good. She's really good interview subject but one thing she says it's related to that. She says, I, got very good interviewer to let's not true. That's. Good in. Johnson says I got really interested in stunt people putting their physical bodies at harm to be invisible in a movie to create escapism for the rest of US I. Love the Metaphor of that I, wanted to turn things inside out including my role. And to back to this question of authenticity, I think in the case of Kirsten Johnson, her putting herself into it as as I was speaking about an in the first half. I think that is where the authenticity. Of Her putting herself into this film because she hasn't really done that camera I, feel like she maybe her face popped in once or twice in camera person but you know her her lens is the character there and you know she's always been a behind the camera person. So you know just taking the step of putting herself kind of the center to the film adjacent to the center of the film. Anyway is a daring act for a documentarian of her stripe. As. Far as wells goes, he is someone who has been in front of the camera for most of his career you know like he has an on camera presence in addition to a behind the camera presence. So we talked in the first half about the film itself kind of in the end being about wells despite all these other sort of. Avenues it meanders down. It is effectively a film about him as a filmmaker at that point in time and. I don't know I'm struggling to see where the authenticity comes in for fake. The title of right, there would seem to run contrary to it I. Guess I wouldn't use the word authenticity so much as candor to describe a link between Wells Johnson here in that, both of them are sharing with the audience the fact that what they're seeing fake I mean they're they're they're showing you the all of the tools of the trade in their laying bare elements of craft that most movies try to disguise, and that's kind of what I meant on the earlier show about effort fake being ahead of its time. I mean I think Dick Johnson's dead is coming along it kind of represents where nonfiction is right now where where it's like we can. Stop pretending, for example, that directors of documentaries and their subjects are not collaborators collaborators they're not. You know it's not. It's there's not that remove their collaborators not unlike actors are. So there's a relationship there and you know camera person was about interrogating those relationships too. So that's their too and of course the these are both films about filmmaking and lays everything bear and I. Mean even when we were talking earlier about some of the decisions that just makes whether we are comfortable with them it's like this film that's very open about what it's doing, and maybe some of those we might judge as ethical mistakes or errors in judgment or something, but she's not trying to hide any of it. You know she's everything is being opened up for us. To See in by opening it up, it doesn't make it a more obvious or ruin the illusion. It makes things more complex and makes us think about how Movies are constructed and so that's something the but at least from have a lot in common in that respect, those films play fast and loose with chronology as well. The wellstone more obviously than than kiss justice but the. you know, of course, you get the extraordinary final seeing which which is all about playing with chronology but. Even before that you kinda get. Your leap back to Seattle, you're not really sure when a few things happen. And of course, the I'm not sure when he was in heaven when they filmed the heaven scenes but but that's that's sort of a leap out of chronology entirely to two sets and stuff and have a hunting films deal with approaches I. Think in Dick Johnson is dead it has the effect of hopefully keeping you from fixating too much on to what state he has deteriorated to light. You know I think with stories of Dementia there's a real sort of temptation to like track a deterioration as we're making our way toward the inevitable and and that's not really how it works I mean kind of in the broad sense. But in sort of the day to day experience of of being with the person who his who is dealing with dementia I only had the barest experience of that. So I apologize I'm speaking of term, but it seems like it's You know when you're in it, you're not necessarily thinking about the long arc of it and I think there are some indicators. Johnson is dead like of the order things happening like he obviously moves from Seattle to New York but you know I, think it keeps us from like tracking the chronology of his illness and instead focusing on the just the experience of being with him in this moment and whatever state he is in as as she is capturing him and I, honestly didn't feel like we were jumping around in time too much the only time it really stuck out to me was the sort of the. Coffin reveal during the funeral sequence at the end. Because early in the film, we see him being filmed in that casket and that being very upsetting to ray and then he sort of like during the funeral sequence, the casket him in the is like superimposed, and then we kind of have that moment again, speaking of sort of laying bare the tools of film making where the casket sort of is taken away. It's revealed that the is there and comes down I i. think that's a very, very lovely and ing. So I think you know tricky chronology in in dead is used with purpose I think in. It is used for trickery. Which is fine because that is kind of what the film is is ought about in general, but it's used in the service, of character, in Dick Johnson his dad, and there really isn't a character, an effort fake other than than wells himself that I think we have any attachment to. So the jumping around in in time it just feels like trickery and another example of of trickery and that's fine. I think part of the aspect of F, for fake using it in that that trickery sort of way I think effort fake is ultimately much more of an active syncretism and it's kind of. Pulling, together, all of these ideas I would say in not the most informative or communicative way, but it's trying to dry in a whole bunch of different things at once and by jumping around conceptually between them and and jumping around in time and jumping around and focus. It's trying to show you the similarities between all of these things, the similarity between forging art and selling it versus forging a memoir and selling it versus forging an identity and selling it the connection between actual art as an act of creativity and forging art just as much of an act as an act of creativity. And you know what's what's going to be left behind when we're gone it's all of these ideas of muddled up together whereas with Dick Johnson, it feels very deliberate to. To jump in and out of the heavens sequences I feel like that sequence might be a little too ridiculous a little too much. If it was altogether as opposed to something that we jump back and forth with an an an out of its kind of lake, he's going off to his heavily reward every time. He dies as opposed to putting all the deaths together and then putting all of the heavens stuff together. I think that the way it's edited gives us these little heaven sequences is kind of as as gifts you know were more able to appreciate here he is Catching, popcorn in his tongue in slow motion or here he is revelling in the reveal of his his heavenly body in its healed toes here he is having this dance experience or collapsing into clouds or whatever these are all. Almost certainly shot at the same time as as part of all of the same package but they're kind of like. Out like little treats almost as a way of virtually visually escaping every time. The phone gets a little heavy every time it's a sad every time the understanding of his deterioration hits a little more. It's like well. Okay. So let's go back to the imaginary space where. He. We're assuming that he's going to be some day and where everything is beautiful it's Lake F for fake uses the jumping around to disagree you to get its message across and Dick Johnson uses the jumping around to relax you. So it can get its message across without being too hurtful just to note the I think the happened scenes. To kind of take it out of the chronology of the film and into the chronology of the filming it sounds like based on that that interview with Rachel that that actually came a little later in the process the idea to do that and she says, at some point, it was like we need to stop killing him. It was not a fun for him. He was bloody and cold outside and I was like, why am I doing this to him? I wondered what would be pleasurable to him to go to heaven. And she goes on from there to speak about Freud in the UNCANNY, which is also good. You should read the interview but you know I think that feeling of sort of relief or the feeling that this is a little gift comes from it being a a relief and a gift to her father. In this, you know this experience that was difficult for both of them you know, and this was maybe a release valve on this whole project and it comes through. ONSCREEN and those were the heaven. Stuff is also kind of a fun interesting juxtaposition between between that fantasy and then his own notions of what heaven is I mean he he talks about you know heaven being around all of them you now I mean, that's utterly contented person on earth you know in in in you know when they're not filming it's even more heavily because they've brought him his favorite chair and his you know automated and he gets to take a nap. There's something so pleasing about watching him do that too. So that that is as a kind of another layer of like of what heaven actually means for someone like him. I mean obviously, there's also all of the seventh day adventists stuff kind of we woven in there as well. I'm not sure what to make all that whole spiritual. Component but but there is a thing i. just think this is it doesn't really compare to FIFA losing faking this but I do I do think like the prevailing spirit of Dick Johnson is dead comes from Dick Johnson and his view of life, which is so open in accepting in positive in kind of fun. You know that that that that's kind of we kept it from being a dirge for me but you know that's the justice that I want. I, want to like get too far away from effort fake. Stop. I just WanNa make the point that you mentioned him to an APP in autumn as opposed to the many many other naps that he takes throughout the course of this film. What, a strange like whenever we parents films up like this we were always looking at either creator connections or big picture big theme connections, and then we almost always get like one of these strange little coincidental connections and the moment when he is in his Ottoman sleeping and he just sort of gently soap bubble floats up to the ceiling and disappears. Is, still, very surreal moment and then F for fake ends with Orson Welles slowly levitating an old man who appears typing or dead upward, and then eventually whisking cloth off of him and he's also disappeared. And I just had a moment of is this is complete coincidence is this based in the the symbolism of kind of the body disappearing death like physical form disappearing is this what we're getting at when we do this A. Magician's act like we have multiple bodies disappearing over the course of of effort fake. At what is what a strange weird little rhyme between these two films would've of gets at another connection, which is delusion concept that both films are hugely interested in after fake it's it's pretty obvious I mean the whole thing is a magic trick. From the beginning and in you know all about all these different levels of fakery and in truth in there as well, and then with Johnston's dead. There's a lot of illusions that are created by fantasy and by you know these these sort of staged sequences but then there's the overall illusion that it's possible for someone to. Live forever and in movies such an exciting idea that she said bottled up this moment out of time and then and then ends the film. So pointedly with the illusion that he's probably that he's gone in her opening the door and he's alive and that's a trick trick that she plays on us, and that's a trick that movies allow her to do in allows us to be kind of delighted by this illusion in and leave the film with like a little question mark with a moment that is defiant of the very title of the movie I had the thought before we started recording. That we you know we maybe should have had a connection about a topic. We've talked about before movies about moviemaking because I think these would to some extent both fall under that category. But I think the connection of illusion kind've gets at the same idea. You know like they are both films that are that are preoccupied with the idea that what you present onscreen becomes it is both a lie and it is a truth you know at simultaneously and at the same time they both acknowledge engage with filmmaking as a tool to create illusion you know whether through editing or through stuntman or. Magic. In you know. Through, through special effects and to some degree, it feels like we're going back to that sort of sense of smugness. I got off of a for fake I feel like some of these allusions are like wells smirking at the camera to the effect of you didn't realize that when I steps towards this white screen, I was going to in one cut be in front of a white screen and a different place I fooled you and it's the kind of I. Fooled us. It's meant to make you rethink your preconceptions that's made meant to make you look at the world a new. It's a socratic method of debate. That's lake. Would you like to question all the ways in which you're wrong while I stand here and smugly assert that I know more than you. And then like Dick Johnson's version of that is the K. were all hanging out together making this movie like be in on the whole process from start to finish, he can be in on the development and the ideas and kind of the fun stuff of setting this up and then the aftermath as well. Be On we staged this death. Here's the end of it, but then hairs after the end of it. You know you're not left with the image of him lying broken and bleeding at the bottom of the stairs you get. Kirsten, saying, can we change the the puzzle? Yeah. That's that's even better interest like repeatedly breaking the illusion to make sure that. You're not left with the illusion. Worthy. The illusionists is kind of sad, Dick? Johnson just feels like a much friendlier version of that to me. One thing I think we should also talk about is how these films you work as personal films with documentarian himself or herself as being the subject because I with we talked about effort fake being. So essence of wells. Be just like him as the center of attention who him as this. Artist. With a very long history that he's sharing in deconstructing with us in Dick Johnson is dead. I think is such a perfect. Fusion of Houston Johnston's personality because if Johnson's personality if you spent. Time around her she is both a fearsome. Intellect and also an extremely approachable very. Warm kind of like he's got the like these two very strong aside. So personality I think come through. In the movie and and it was interesting to see her kind of operate at true falls where she was just completely the center of attention because she's been for one, you know. These are. Audience in these filmmakers who have known her for so long I mean, she's been making movies as a cinematographer like for like twenty five years. So every filmmaker knows her and of course people you know inject camera person and this movie was sort of like the the head of the festival but like she's also extremely tall and wears very. Close, very like striking. You know she's common is a blend and I think that people just were like coming up to her all weekend to kind of share their experiences in you know and she has this extremely attentive. Gaze. What she the way she engages what people mean. She's really he's a very much a people person I Think that that generosity of spirit and that fierce intellect kind of come through beautifully in this movie but could she eat a lobster? Not Point point wells she might. She might. I would put a plaster. I mean her father can eat three pieces of what looks like the richest. Over. That's so sweet that grandkids are involved in making a cake or bringing them the cake destroying the cake speaking of grandkids this. This isn't really a connection, but it hasn't come up elsewhere and since we're kind of talking about Johnson as as a person I, just want to note the interesting family she has. Her the living situation it just kind of pass without comment but I did a little research afterwards because I was curious about it and she doesn't need live next door to the fathers of her two children. One of whom is filmmaker IRA SACHS and the other is Patriot Boris. So. Very just modern modern family if you will. But you know we see two we see at at work in the film a little bit but there's never any sort of comment or explanation on it, but it just seems like another example of her being a sort of. A singular person we'll also that scene in. Lisbon. What's what's his most recent film with Mercer? Toma I and I. Didn't do that. What's what's Oliver? SACKS ARISTOCRACY OLIVER? Sacks is the neurologist. Frankie you're talking about Frankie. So right. So the scene where they're on a beach in Lisbon, and surely that was connected to the filming of IRA, Sachs is. Frankie. That one I I did it was not I I it's it's pleasant but it's it's not on a level with might favorites. quietly. When he's really good, he's quietly one of the best Rogers in America right now it's totally worth seeing for sure. I. Love that I love that relationship I think that's pretty cool and and yet clearly the Lisbon stuff related to that in some way. Before we drifted too far off away from the these films in their connections I feel like we can't go out with talking about what's maybe the the most critical connection between the two of them which is the fact that these films are both kind of fundamentally about art in the face of death after fake as as we've all said like the heart of it, the monologue that really kind of makes it feel like an endeavour with a point with a focus with a message comes in that monologue about how everything that we saying will go down into the dark with us but we still keep singing anyway and we should keep singing anyway the monologue Kenneth expressly says that. Sometimes. When we create art, it outlives Our Name. It outlives our reputation. They were not known for it. It's just known for itself and that that's fine. Maybe maybe names aren't so important and the contrast between that and a piece of art that is so specifically personal and about somebody's name surviving after their death, I mean he's it's in the title of the. Film, it's fundamentally meant to be a record of this one individual person and who he was and what his relationship was like with the woman who's making the film and what his attitude was towards all of these things and how he felt about death and how he felt about the degeneration coming to death like it's such an interesting contrast to me in terms of. The approach that kind of like high mindedly says. Credit for art may not survive, but it's important to make art anyway, and the approach that says I don't WanNa let go of this one particular person. So I'm going to make art built entirely around him not just so I'll have a record and we'll be able to remember him but so everybody else can know him as well. So everybody else can have kind of an insight into what this experience. was like with this man that I love and then we're GONNA lose. It's just two very interesting. I think very, very different approaches to the question of what survives after we're gone. What are legacies look like? Yeah, I. Think you'd almost dealing with separate passions in a way I mean because of the with Orson Welles, you talking about art in a very abstract way not necessarily you know in the. I both are kind of optimistic in a certain extent but there's one thing you talking about art in the abstract, and then you're actually talking about a person, which is what Dick Johnson is. Dead is about in your right I. mean this. This is a movie that preserves him and preserves that relationship the relationship has with his daughter and I think it tries to do it in a way that is going to be. Perhaps, inspiring to everybody else. I mean it's not. You know if it were if Dick, Johnson's dead were just you know didn't kind of couldn't be applied or was an identifiable the rest of us wouldn't work as as well but I think we can take away a lot We can reflect own relationships with our parents or children or whatever. You know I mean there's something just inspiring about the way Dick Johnson and Johnson to make their way through the world with heart and compassionate and openness you know. Richard Right. All this is like. You, bottle that up and it's Kinda gold you know and I mean, and that's something that all of us can carry that anyone who encounters is moving kind of carry from it is just a whole different perspective on on the world that's cheering I think what's he doing a good place to wind things down Is Dead can be seen on net flicks Africa's Trivia on the criterion shadow Max canopy can be rented elsewhere digitally and is edition. It's available criterion, DVD and Blu Ray, and as usual whether on the channel or the disc, the criterion options. The way to go there just a wealth of extras on there is a really good commentary track to go with it too So we'll be right back with your next picture show. Support, for this podcast comes from state farm here with good news and even better news. The good news state farm has new lower car insurance rates. The even better news that means you can now get the service and convenience of a local state farm agent at surprisingly great rates state farm can help you save more cash and get the good neighbor service. You deserve just talk to your local state farm agent or visit State Farm Dot com to find out how much you can save on your car insurance when you want the real deal like a good neighbor state farm is their Own. Finally tend to catch each other up on films are film related items. We've seen in the interim since our last podcast, we call it your next picture show in the hopes that will put some interesting choices on your radar genevieve what the film world has been good for you lately. Well, it hasn't really been good for me lately, I have not watched this recently, but it is a film that I kept thinking of during F for fake and if it were released today, I would absolutely want to pair with that film but the last it came out ten years ago in it is. Called exit through the Gift Shop It is a film by the Artists Bank C., which if you're familiar with banks, he should right away be an indication that this film is going to be something other than a straightforward documentary much like effort fake. It's an essay film that kind of unspools along these different narrative paths. But unlike fake it all comes together in a very satisfying way that nonetheless avoids sort of simple pat conclusion. It's also film that's very interested in the nature of art, the role of the artist and the intersection thereof, and while the type of art it's focused on isn't Forgery, there's definitely an impostor component at play in the figure of tears. Guetta, a wannabe street artists who refashioned himself as Mr Brainwash Like for fake film that's very tied to the idea of editing s filmmaking the backstory of the film is they get ahead filmed hundreds of hours of graffiti artists, but was unable to make it an any sort of functional film. So being see took over the editing and it became his film not unlike wells and Reichenbach I'll note while get ended up doing let's say something different s Mr Brainwash given this is a bank see. Product in banks, he is a notorious trickster. It is hard to delineate between the film's onscreen and offscreen with allergies, and there was a lot of speculation about whether. The whole thing was a hoax when it first came out and even more speculation about whether it mattered Kevin and product which was nominated for a best. Documentary. Oscar that year like I said I haven't really watched exit through the gift shop in a while. So I can't say. How well it holds up. My hunch is that it does so very well, and after sitting through effort fake, I'm looking forward to having the time to revisit exit through the Gift Shop. It's rentable and all the usual places did anyone else have make that connection while they were watching for fake nobody took. A good one. Thank you. Re Banks Rep seems like fallen since that movie. Shredding the painting at auction stunt a a couple of years ago was. This sort of fake amusement park thing people weren't so into but well, whatever can't hit everyone out of the park. But it's a good movie Scott. What about you? Occasion for I write this little newsletter double feature thing for your time watching newsletter every Friday and I my favorite of the kind of the more recent vintage Disney nature documentaries associations by Jack Perrin in it's like the reason I like it so much as it does have those kind of requisite Disney nature elements of just a little anthropomorphized. You know kind of touchy feely new agey narration by Pierce. Brosnan but it's also full of just staggeringly beautiful abstract images but that's not the full on our command even though I I would if you WANNA see one of those types of movies, I would definitely check that out I wanted recommend something. The same filmmakers did before in France called winged migration which is about birds Fr- flying great distances from one place to another and following that's. The. Entire movie it's is following different migratory patterns and what's so interesting about it and almost calming about it is that it dials back on all the information you might expect there's very there is a little bit of narration but minimal and then but most of what you get is just the name of the bird, how far they have to fly and where they're going. Then all that's handled in a title and then you just watch them do it and it's Just it's all about image making in aerial photography and bird formations, and just the fact that when you're following birds. You get to see the globe, but you could just see interesting top Offi from above you know maybe you can see them flying through cities mountains and you know ice flows and just like I. It's just a wonderful experience and the fact that it takes away some of the things that you might expect from a nature documentary like information. It educated educational aspect being in now most a lot of them have you know sort of environmental. Warnings because obviously things are not going so great it's soothing just to see it more as a pure act active cinema. It's worth visiting and I think the it's a good feeling to watch now kind of transporting. So winged migration, it also micro cosmos from the kind of started that whole thing too. That's pretty that's pretty great too. So I love winged migration. I'm a little sad we were gonNA talk about Disney nature though 'cause. A surplus of thoughts on Disney nature to do something with but alas. You've seen of them. We both see many of them with should be some sort of collaboration point. Maybe that's a a bonus episode Yeah Yeah for sure it's All, been waiting for. Keith, Rowley you. I'm going to film adjacent because I'm deep in the weeds on a couple of watching projects that probably don't really count for this, but there is a podcast it's returning we're. Between we talk to each other sometimes were not recording and between reporting things particular in how we missed the podcasts called the Topol ASCII files which was created produced and hosted by by Africa the show David Chen. It Stars character actor extraordinary Stephen Topalov. Who reflects on basically everything? It's likely episodes A. You know a little bit of storytelling from Stephen Till ASCII which he does very well in addition to be a good actor but he he kind of draws from different parts of his life and kind of unpack incidences and memories, and we've of into into stories that. I think one thing I really like about a you know he is. A man in his in his sixties at this point he. Of experience but he always kind of approach is always sort of someone still learning not someone who's handing down to wisdom from all experience with someone who's still processing life is still trying to figure out what it all means I think. It's a it's a podcast. I was saying you know it's been off the air for three years and listening to the new episodes that was sent as it's like putting on old warm shirt. It's like Oh. Yes. Here's this. Who says comforting thing that I'd I'd forgotten about. So it's as clear a check it out. It's. A website called the Topol ASCII files, Dot com I think there's a youtube element to where you can find all about it. They're having not listen to it at all, which is kind of ridiculous because people have been telling me to listen to it. What's the? What's the gateway set the? What's the episode that will just like knock you your but the upset I always recommend when when is episode forty four called a voice from another room, which is about as experiences. Reading the script to true stories, the David Byrne film with with Beth Henley, the playwright who was his partner for years, and it is off forget the details so and I don't want to spoil it surprises but you'll basically learn how the band radiohead is indirectly related to a very strange experience that assume Topalov had in his in his younger years inspired. An incident in the film inspired the song inspired the band but in terms of finding out what that is people discover for themselves. So you know it's it's up in any point. One one thing is there's no chronology to it is is kind of a kind of all across his life and there's lots of good Hollywood stories but also just sort of reflections on. Being a father being Assan and and so on and so forth and being a boyfriend. The big through lines that which again, not the story itself is not chronological at you. You won't get kind of a start to finish story of this very central relationship in his life by. The podcasts start to finish but you will get it in very deliberate segments like you'll get it. If you start at the beginning and go on till, you come to the end and then stop as Lewis Carroll would have said. You end up with a portrait. Pieced together, like a giant jigsaw puzzle of how this relationship happened and how it operated and how it fell out. In a way that's very consciously assembled I think it's remarkable how much the individual episodes of the Topalov Ski Gi files stand alone and independent and yet at the same time how much you can feel overtime them filling in all of these different holes and gaps that they deliberately consciously we've for the story of of this man's life. If you want something if you want to start someplace like like Fun and Light Episode Twenty Nine is just about behind the scenes on groundhog day. It's. It's called the classic and it gives you a bunch of Trivia about sort of what that film was like what his experience was lake and a bunch of observations about being in the film industry, and that's really fun though I cannot remember which episode was he goes into detail about working with Steven Seagal and that's the memory them forever going to carry. This. Out of this podcast, he's a a consummate storyteller he's. Very very kind honestly varies sweeten very wise and so many of these podcast individual podcast stories kind of start with Lake. Here's maybe a piece of Trivia about a film that you know in love and then go into like a a long and thoughtful story from his life that might be about film or might be personal or might be something else entirely, and then come to really surprising conclusion it's it's really well crafted I'm so excited it's coming back Tasha, how about you? What? What would you recommend? Well, nothing is good is the table ASCII files. I'll tell you that it's been a week It's been A. Recording these because of the whole situation where we recorded our PAT pair up four Jillian air and dog teeth, and then realize the Hegelian wasn't coming. Vod for another couple of weeks past the day where it was coming to theaters we're recording this exactly one week after after the last one and it's certainly PODCAST, magic? Tash. Isn't. Really. It's all a symbol that of different fragments and I fooled you and I know more than you do. But I'm GonNa let you behind the scenes because benevolent Kirsten Johnson host as opposed to. Smarmy ass. I I haven't had a lot of time to watch wasn't email address recent complaints to. Tasha mispronounces everything at next pitcher show dot com. There's dot net. Number weekly voicemails. Yeah. We'll have time to watch stuff and also due to political stress and just Shire's vaguely at world I have not been much head space for watching films. So during a particularly stressful moment recently, I, sat down with trolls world tour. which was just literally the only thing I could contemplate putting into my brain at at that particular point in time I loved the First Trolls, the twenty sixteen trolls it was one of those films that I sort of grudgingly went to see out of a feeling of like it's a began amid movie we're going to need to cover it and it just delighted me the songs are silly and over the top, the surrealism is really rich that the like acid trip imagery is. Kind of remarkable and just overall. It's just a very different kind of animated film. trolls world tour is not that at all. It's a pretty bog standard country children's movie There's a bad guy played by Rachel bloom from crazy ex girlfriend. She wants to steal everybody's uniqueness and make everybody the same. There's a big message about how that's bad and why and how it relates music. Way To. that. Message. Overall in the the songs are kind of fun but just not inspired in the same kind of way. But the design of this movie. I I could honestly recommend that people put this movie on in the background is a giant screen saver in you'd it and just have it running or honestly just examine to see. Some of the stuff on in Non Pixar animation these days. The first film kind of the framing device was that maybe the whole story was being told like via a scrapbook of the story that somebody had made. So this kind of a framing device that involves lake little felt versions of the characters in like a little like fiber craft book and it's all playing out. But then that that visual extends to the rest of the film, which is like fiber craft and paper craft like everything has a fuzzy texture or like looks in some way like it was cut out or drawn or sewn in some way and the the new one is a fiber craft film. It's so remarkable I, find myself just completely ignoring. Whatever like big dumb chase everybody is supposed to be on whatever big broad hero villain moment was supposed to be happening and looking at the backgrounds. There's a chase scene out of a Western where our hero trolls offend some country music trolls and are being chased through the landscape and the camera pulls back to visualize this lake. Deep Canyon with a river running through the bottom of it very standard like Western. Landscape and the Canyon is made up of of piled quilts, piled folded quilts and you. Can see like every stitch and texture this scene where the protagonist comes down to the shoreline of a lake and looks at her reflection and the shoreline is visibly made out of like like the tattered edge of a ragged peace of fabric which looks like the foam at the edge of a the water just like everything is film is so visually thought through and so beautiful when when the pop music trolls end up in the Rock Music Trolls Evil Lair, it's made up of ragged. Denham. When they're on stage together, you can see like the big stick we've of yarn used to. So the whole thing it's ridiculous I it it delights me to know how much thought went into realizing kind of the background, the setting and the aesthetic of the film it would have been so easy to make it a another generic CGI animated movie but it's honestly really playful and it's on Hulu now. So you no longer have to like pay an additional twenty dollars in order to have it for like three days you can just kind of click it on and watch it randomly. Until you get kind of bored of extremely colorful kind of Sushi and whimsy in the visuals, and then you can move on with your life and the six types of music of. New. Six. Well, somebody hasn't seen the movie because There are a bunch of other types of music as well. Kind of get. I've seen. Wedge. So you say that like somebody who doesn't I strongly remember the Reston's He. Does it for this edition of the picture show? And that's actually yet for this edition. The next picture show you know our next period. We did a little bit of effort fakery which you because of. Some scheduling issues were movies we'll get moved around so we're actually going to come back. Next with our long promised hotly anticipated pairing of dog twos and Kajillions to films about unusual families as guess as leave it at that those were finally come out on October thirteenth and. In the though to hear your feedback on this week's discussion after fake Dick, Johnson's dead anything else film related. You'd like to talk about we wouldn't include your thoughts on future episodes of the show. Even short voicemail at seven, seven, three, two, three, four, nine, seven, three, zero or email comments and experts your show dot net. We may post your response on facebook for discussion or on a future persona of the show finally before closing out this week's episode, where can you find everyone these days Scott you'd find me on twitter at Scott underscored to bias you find my work in New York Times of the Ringer Vulture Guardian and other publications I feel like I should also say I spent September working like. On three, fairly large features, all of which will be out by the time you've listened to this. So so I wrote about letterbox to a at for the ringer I also wrote about a profile of Kirstin Johnson also for the ringer, and then I have a piece about a wilderness of air, the fx adaptation of the Earl Morris Book. that's for the New York Times Pasha I'm the film and TV editor. At Polygon, Dot Com you can find me on twitter at Tasha. Robinson I ain't written nothing lately about I'm hoping to actually get back into it as we wind September down and headed to the exciting land of a small strange October horror film releases we'll see how that goes. genevieve. I am the Deputy TV editor at vulture, and by the time you hear this the day that this comes out, I should say we will have kicked off a big package that I have been working on for a while. Now on the one hundred sequences that shaped animation, it's a big and impressive and very cool list that I am excited to be to have out in the world along with a lot of supplementary stuff that I did not right but it definitely had a hand in shaping. So I hope you will check that out and you can find me on twitter at Genevieve Kofsky keys. A freelance writer what you're being thought I read all the time for for places like a mel and vulture and the ringer and Rosenstone occasionally and I'm over the place these days I you can follow me on twitter at K v three thousand. You can say updated on the next picture show by visiting next picture show dot net via twitter at next pot and be a facebook at facebook dot com slash picture show you can also contribute two Patriot and Get Bonus content at Patriot dot com slash next picture show. If you haven't subscribe to show on Apple podcast already, please consider it apple podcast descriptions are an important part of getting podcast more prominence and more listeners and while you're there, we appreciate every review every thumbs up helps us find new listeners to keep the show going thanks to Dan the bake snakes for assistance producing this podcast. The next show is probably part of the family podcast fleas couldn't next time.

Dick Johnson Dementia Richard Johnson Kirsten Johnson ray Dick Johnson Kirchen Johnston Orson Welles Rachel Hander Wells Johnson Blu Ray director Netflix Alzheimer Microsoft Scott Tobias genevieve Kofsky Amazon Cureton Johnson Dick Jaspers Johnson Robinson
Filmmaker Faces Her Dad's Mortality In 'Dick Johnson Is Dead'

Fresh Air

48:27 min | 10 months ago

Filmmaker Faces Her Dad's Mortality In 'Dick Johnson Is Dead'

"From whyy in Philadelphia this is fresh air I'm Dave Davies for Terry Gross when documentary filmmaker Kirsten Johnson's father was diagnosed with dementia she had a hard time accepting the fact that his death was getting closer. So she decided to make a movie about him it tells the story of moving her dad out of his home in Seattle and into her apartment in new. York it also enacts her father's death from imagined accidents like getting hit in the head by a falling air conditioner she says Killing Her Dad in the movie helped her face his inevitable death her new film is called Dick Johnson is dead. Person Johnson has been the cinematographer for over fifty documentaries. Today we talked with Johnson about her moving her dad and her life behind the camera. Also film critic Justin Chang reviews the new comedy the forty year old version which wanted directing award at this. Sundance. Film. Festival. Today. We're going to listen to an interview, our producer Sam brigger recorded with documentary filmmaker Kirsten Johnson. Let's reduce it. Our Guest Kirsten Johnson has a new documentary coming out on Netflix at the end of the week. It's called Dick Johnson is Dead Dick Johnson is her dad and while he's not dead, he's eighty eight. The movie is about how they are both coming to terms with his dementia and with his inevitable death, and it's also a loving tribute to her dad's life. In order to help process his death Johnson stages various accidents were her father dies like getting hit in the head by falling air conditioner unit tripping on a crack in the sidewalk or falling down the stairs. And Her dad acts out his demise in each of these staged accidents. The film is also about Johnson helping her father move out of his home and his psychiatric practice in Seattle. So he can live with her and her one bedroom apartment in New York City. Johnson's mother died from Alzheimer's Disease in two thousand and seven. Dick Johnson is dead is the seventh movie Kirsten Johnson's directed. She's also been the cinematographer for over fifty documentaries including citizen for pray the devil back to hell and the oath in her twenty sixteen movie camera person. She took spare footage from her decades of work in documentaries and edited them together and called it her memoir. I spoke to Kirsten Johnson. Monday from her home in New York. Here's a clip from Dick. Johnson is dead where Kirsten her data talking about his memory. I don't really. Know. Some big problem with my member the it's more apparent to people around me then it is to me. You do facing worry that you'll be a bird and. What does that mean to you? Nothing much more than the it says. You know if I. I I serve. I'm living with you now. And I for you. You're the you might get worse. You know. You might have to care more than you do now. But I'm. Living I'm not terribly worried about. Ask. Do you have emmy some people who feel like? If it gets worse to certain plays I don't WanNa. Live. I Love Watch, too much for that. So you would you use the interested in living to state the mom was in where she could communicate? Yeah I think. So I do you permission to euthanize me? Too happy to do that. Well, has it by me before you do it. That's. That's a scene from Dick Johnson is dead. And you hear Dick Johnson there and his daughter Kirsten. Johnson. WHO's the filmmaker Kristen Johnson? Welcome to fresh air. Thank you SAM. I'm just laughing because that really is my dad. In all of his twists and turns. So how did you come up with the idea of making this movie where you kill off your dad and all these various accidental deaths? I'm the most easy going person in the world and also like completely oppositional. So I never liked to think of ideas of as happening in one moment or coming from one place. So one of the primary places this came from was the experience we had Previous film camera person and look wonderful editor I work with nels bender he placed a shot of my mother alive after shot of her ashes in a box and. It. So startled me I really had the impression that she came back to life, and I just like how right cinema can do this. You know very top doesn't men with a movie camera or you go from a still shot of an old woman to her suddenly moving and it's just this affirmation but cinema can do. So that was part of the origin story, and then of course I had a dream I'm like a big vivid dreamer and I had a dream in which I saw an open casket and a man who wasn't my father sat up and I'm Dick Johnson and I'm not dead yet. and. That just felt like the just like clicked something in me like Oh wait a minute. My time is running out with him. And then how did you broach the subject with your dad? Ever, since I was a pretty little with my dad we have. Kind of amazing conversations about all kinds of things. But we're both really interested in psychology and we're both really into novels and movies and sort of talking about like how is it that people behave this way or that way and I often will tell him my dreams and I told him I had that dream and that it had given me this idea that maybe we could do his funeral before he really died, and also that could that be a movie in which he died and came back to life and we could just keep doing it until he really died like we'd have this project together for the rest of his life. And he laughed he. Took yeah, okay cool. He I mean he kind of was honestly he was just like. I mean, I would say he is a modest person and like he's right in some ways, he's like. Not, that. What's going to happen in this movie and I was like, well, you're gonNA unexpectedly dies. So that'll be interesting but he was not particularly interested in being the center of things but he was absolutely interested in doing something with me full-time spending time together watching movies together making something funny together I have to say when when I watched the movie for the first time home on my computer is where we watch movies these days and. Your Dad's walking down the street and an air conditioner falls on his head and I knew was that was going to happen but it totally took me by surprise and I, jumped out of my seat started yelling. Is Not prepared for this yelled. Why did you choose accidental deaths like there's a scene where you're talking to a stunt person about like other various ways, he could impact your dad's death and he sort of is. Like, a a stabbing situation like well, we're not really trying to do that. We're trying to do these accidents like why was that what you? WanNa? Well accidents happen right and. There is a way in which there's a part of me. That is part of me from camera person I have like this profound respect for other people's suffering and you know when I think back over the course of my life and that many tragedies of people in the world, I have encountered of terrible accidents happening to them or to their children to their parents and you know people are just devastated for the rest of their lives because something just like could have been. Could have been changed by an inch and it wouldn't have happened right and then it sort of creates desperate if only I had feeling and it's reliable the unexpected is reliable. So. This is the more likely way that he was going to die properly then, right? Yeah I mean what? I initially wanted a big stunts I wanted to catch on fire I wanted to put him out on an ice floe. I want. You know I want a Jackie Chan to help us because I really was interested also in this role of the stunt person because like with camera person and there's this sense that there's this invisible world of people who helped make things and so I started thinking about stunned people and death like that they're literally risking their own lives. On behalf of being invisible in film. And for all of us to take it lightly on certain level, you know like Oh that movie star didn't die of course, right but we're not thinking of the person who had to catch themselves on fire and Mike Fall out of a building so I did want to stunts. But then once we started to do them it became really clear that my father's dementia was such that it would be really hard to do those stunts. And then suddenly the realization of. Wow. Well, this probably is the more likely that he would die. And honestly the first stunt we did was at home me and him just messing around and looking at the staircase where my mother had fallen and. She. Broke her hip and we didn't know it. She had Alzheimer's so that same staircase that had taken her down you know I was like deadly like lie down at the bottom of it. and. Once he did that like to see my eighty four year old father like laughing but also just the vulnerability of him laying himself out at the bottom of the stairs. Because I had asked him to both made me question the entire idea and also say This is this is potent. You say in the movie that you thought enacting his death would help you prepare for when it really came. Did it work that way or was it also like a distraction for you and him something to do together? So one like. Do like documentary filmmaking ally death emotions are so deeply unexpected. Right? Our own emotions are so deeply unexpected and as a parent I'm always having this of just like, why is this enraging me? It'll just whack you out of the blue like like a so mad at one of my kids 'cause they weren't trying why did that matter so much to me you know and? One of the first huge surprises for me was after we did the funeral I woke up just so depressed. The Monday. After we did the funeral and I realized like some part of me had completely convinced myself. If we did the funeral really in the Church with my dad's friends, he would never die like I really realized. Oh. That's what I thought. I was doing. The movies also about you know having to move your dad out of his house. This is the home outside of Seattle where you grew up getting him to shut down his psychiatry business and moving him into your apartment in New York. So all the way across the country what precipitated that decision? We eased into knowing my mom's dementia took all of us. I would say a couple of years before we all finally admitted it to ourselves my father and mother were living together and I was traveling I was you know I was in Sudan and in Liberia and I would come home and I'd be like, what's this doing this cupboard? That kind of thing. But MOM would really put on a pretty great performance whenever I or my brother would come home and my dad would go to work and not always realized what she was up to during the day. But the same thing started to happen with my father where just like that's funny I thought he mentioned that already but then his secretary called and she said, you know, Dr, Johnson is double booked a patient again this week and he never does that. And she said the pharmacy called and I think there's an issue with one of the prescriptions. So that was just like very serious news and then you know comes the. Crazy story of got off an exit and somehow arrived home with four flat tires. We'll turns out he drove through a construction site and we got one of our friends, one of our neighbors to figure out like where he'd been in what had happened but it was a little bit of detective work and then he sort of laughed it off and. It just was it was just like an odd story. You couldn't quite vet you know and they're starting to be more and more things like that. Until suddenly just like Oh, this is happening but we did get a friend and his son were looking for a place to live for a while. So they moved into the House with Dad. For a couple of months and they totally verified. Yeah. Things are not right. There's a senior to play. This happens in a lot of families where someone has gotten. Too Old to drive and clearly in your Dad's case like he you know as you said, he got home with four flat tires like fortunately didn't hurt anyone but this is the crime of the confrontation where he's realizing that he's no longer going to be able drive in. That's that's really tough for some people to take solicits hear that clip. You've never said you were taking the car away from me. It was said that we are signed that fire because you're moving to New York. Yeah we said that. Right, that's all the. Who Selling and when and where? It's put it being put on craigslist this week it's at the repair shop being finished right now. Telling me whether she. But you're not getting the far back I do know that never drivers again. No not that car. Maybe, some other car. He's got the worst news ever not the worst pretty bad news. Yeah. I'm not far enough GONNA I couldn't start model car. It's not about that. It's about the fact that you moved into New York. Yeah. I know you can't leave the car. That's all but. Now in the couple of days. Okay Sorry. I know it hurts. Independence isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. Realize how mom was still receive. That feels like. Not that bad, it's not that bad bad. Bad. But that was bad. You're little more conscious than she was. But? Your. Credit for much more conscious. This we are stop it. We just do not paying two thousand dollars to put a car in A. Rental car garage New York City. All Yeah right here. Yeah. Seen from Dick Johnson's. Filmmaker Kirsten Johnson is our guest. Kristen that's. That seems really tears me up when I watched it, and the thing that the listeners not seeing as your data's literally putting a good face to this situation like he keeps kind of smiling he's he's Really. Trying to. You know accept the situation, but it's really for him and I love what you're doing there like you're. You're really trying to soften the blow. You know you're like, well, we're just not going to. Pay for the car like we're moving to New York. You don't use cars in New York you know like and you do that a lot. It's just It's just a really sweet way. To handle this. Really. Hard situation. I think. One of the people working on the film was saying to me. You're not from the Mid West you to like just try like I've just always trying to make each other feel better about all this, and that is certainly true i. think because we went through it with my mom, we both know what's coming. So it's so brutal. What's coming that? We? Both I think would be like we're not there yet. It's not that bad you know, and of course, I'm trial tactics like my dad. Notoriously does not want to spend. Large amounts of money for things. So I was just like It's two thousand dollars to have a parking garage in New York you like he's like, Oh, in that case, we don't the car there you know so so I. Do try all kinds of tactics and yet you know I have a dear friend Karel de Singer whose mother had dementia and she said to me when my mom started to get it, she said, you know some of these decisions you make too early or you make them too late and that's how she got me to take my mom's driver's license away from. Her because I was like, all right. My mom could run someone over but then my mother never forgave us for taking away the driver's license. She was so mad about that all the way like after she'd forgotten everything she was still mad about that. So it was really scared to get my dad to stop driving I. Didn't know how going to do it. Something I was wondering. About, their reaction to things like. Have you thought about the ways that your mother and your father reacted to these similar illnesses like I don't know if your dad has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's disease or is it just dementia? Have you thought about the different ways? that. This either altered their personality or just the way they reacted to have to losing their memory and. yeah I mean I think about it all the time. I've started thinking about what part of Dad's dementia is connected to the specificity of his personality. You know he's just like extraordinarily listener. Able in the first few moments with that I done person that we see in the film Mike he he gets right at The question between. Why are some people you know risking their lives on behalf of movies and is there despair our their thoughts of suicide? Is there alcoholism you know he just gets right in there with the media? and that's the kind of thing that my father could do, and so that kind of incisiveness about his own dementia has just been remarkable and so the way he sort of flips on a dime and is thinking about himself in that scene with the car, but then he's also. Saying to me. I'm sorry for you that you have to go through this moment of taking away my independence, right? which he does often. So do you see like an erasure of Your Dad's personality or do you see it like as crystallization of him like how do you come to understand what the syllabus was doing to him? It's ten. So many things to him I mean he is distilled to his essence. Which I would say you know he can call me multiple times in a day and simply say to me I'm just checking to see if you know that I love you. And that is who he has been. My entire life right just affirming that. All of these words are applicable I do think the loss of his capacity to have an extended conversation an analytic conversation. It's a profound loss for him and for me I mean my biggest conundrums, the most challenging problems for me I could go to my dad had just say like I wanna lay this out for you. And I don't understand why I'm behaving in this way I don't understand what's happening and he he could just. Break it apart and ask questions never never judge never give me even advice just ask questions that then allowed me to think okay I see what's going on here. And so that I have definitely lost and he is definitely lost. But every once in a while I can see like come in with like A. He'll just go deep analytic and be right in there for the length of that question. Can Get it. You know. So in some ways, it's top mean new ways to think and talk and interact with him. If you're just joining us, I'm speaking with Kirsten Johnson whose newest film Dick Johnson is dead comes out on Friday on net flicks. It's a loving tribute to her dad who's actually still alive but who's dealing with dementia? Johnson's been cinematographer for over fifty documentaries more after break. This is fresh air. This message comes from NPR sponsor. Hammock. Schlemmer helping define modern living for a hundred and seventy two years. They were the first to offer revolutionary items that became common household necessities such as the pop up toaster today. Their lineup includes an air purifier that uses natural convection to draw airborne impurities into its ceramic heating chamber, and then releases clean air into the room find this and other items at Hammock Dot com use code NPR twenty to receive twenty dollars off your order. This is fresh air I'm Sam Brugere sitting in for Terry Gross back with our guest, Kirsten Johnson, who is both the documentary cinematographer and filmmaker. Her newest film Dick Johnson is dead. We'll be available on Netflix this Friday. It's about her father who's actually still alive but whom she kills off various accidents during the course of the movie to help process would be like when he actually dies. It also deals with his increasing dimension in his move from Seattle to Johnson's apartment in new. York. Johnson's previous film was camera person. I'd like to talk to you a little bit about camera person your film from two. Thousand Sixteen. And you've you call this film a memoir. Could you describe it as this all footage of things that didn't make it into the movies that you a cinematographer for Not exactly I so camera person for me was a process which came out of. worked as a Mataka for for about twenty five years at that point and had been in just some extraordinary places in the world with people who had lived through mostly who had lived through Powerful Times, I've filmed in the regions of five different genocides, and. I. Hit this point where I think I was just saturated with This sort of human experience by proxy and I started. Having trouble remembering things and I think you know it was happening around the same time as my mother's dementia. So it was really. Felt connected to her but how is just like wow, I don't even know where I was yesterday and it would have been like just got back from India and on my way to Kansas City, and I couldn't I was like, where was I last week and so I just to wonder what was going on with my memory and I was making a film with a young woman in Afghanistan and the had almost completed when I showed it to her and she said Oh I can't I can't be in this film anymore it's too dangerous for my face to be seen in this film. Now, given the political context in Kabul and I just shocked me I was like what doing like how did I not realize that was coming in the making of this film and so it just felt like I had this world of blind spots and served to go back. To footage that sort of haunted me. I slowly started to accumulate the set of material that were my questions, my questions about humanity, my questions about the work and I wondered if I could put them all together in a film because you know there's so much span of time spectrum of places, different kinds of footage. But what united them all was that I had been there I had been there with a camera and had been there sort of questioning and searching and might encounter with making those images with the people there Stays with me I, am haunted and so it was like, okay. How do I go back into understanding what this is what this work is so we found a way to put it together without any voiceover so that you just experience in many ways as I experienced it with no narration. Was Making the movie or finishing the movie therapeutic for you. I think no question. I. Think basically because. In some ways, I could show a mere back to myself of how. I was how responsible I felt for all of it. You know and and You feel this when you're a camera person because you just you know sometimes you're there at the moment and you're you're infocus, send you and you you let like someone who has never you know like who who lives their own life but has like not has been ignored by the world and shouldn't have been ignored. You're just like your give your like you're pulling a hand through and they're reaching hand through and then they come into the world and they're they're visible where the world has made them invisible and. I love that I love that feeling and then sometimes you're just blowing you know you're like, oh, the lights terrible and something's wrong with the sound or there's a rabbit scratchy in the background and like there is in my house right now and and the footage is you know it has its defects and so as a camera person I wish we'd started filming earlier the. Light. was different or you know but that is your way of sort of struggling with the fact like you're not making it better. Right. In that moment you know that that traumatized person like you shared a moment with them yes. You've film them maybe someone else's GonNa Watch the film but like that things still happen to them they're still living with this thing that happened to them. Three decades ago that they still can't sleep at night and they're not gonNA another not GonNa Sleep again tonight, you know so that the feeling of. I would love to make this world different. And yet I am so inadequate that feeling you know I was going there so much and then with camera personnel realized like, yeah, and and also you know it's not all yours to do. In the movie you say that you don't have any footage of your mom before she was diagnosed with Alzheimer's and you said that filming her in that state felt like a betrayal. Can you explain what you meant by the? My mother was just this extraordinary woman with a lot of capacity. She was very fun. She was really interested in other people's welfare. She was really interested in aesthetics she cared about how she dressed. She cared a lot about what other people thought of her like in terms of her religious beliefs she was really trying to be a a a decent person. So if she was going to be seen or transformed into an image, she wanted it to be sharp and I knew that about her and She was anything but sharp in the images that I filmed of her she was confused she was wandering her closer sort of hanging off of her her haircuts not great and she's got that you know scared sometimes scared sometimes distant looking I and I know she would have hated that. That anyone that publicly and when I was showing camera person. I. Many people they were like it's it's so clear how much you love your mother and then I showed it at the Seattle. Film. Festival and you know in this film there's a woman named. Joanne. Tucker who we put her death on the on the screen, she's the woman who made the chocolate cake that nearly killed my dad. The first time gave him a heart attack and Joanne's daughter saw a camera person and she said that was not your mother in that movie. She said Kitty Joe would have hated this and I said Yeah and it just made me burst into tears because she knew my mom. Like nobody else had seen the film my mom. But like she knew it was a betrayal and it was. So. You worked on a film by Kathy liked or called here one day, which is about how after her mother suicide lecture moved into her mother's house and she surrounded by all their mothers possessions and there's a shot that you have in camera person where she's sitting on her mother's bed. Surrounded by all the stuff like these paper bags full of files and papers, and she just overwhelmed and she starts just. Throwing the stuff in the corner and she saying I'm sick of it. I'm sick of it. And then she crawls off the bed. And hides behind it. So you can't see her and she says something like, I totally don't want you to see me right now. But what do you do? I walk around the bed and I go and film her now you get the shot. Yeah. Well, you know Kathy lighter is just incredibly emotionally evolved person and she said to me in the making of this film that we spent nine years making together was you gotta go the places I'm afraid to go. And at the beginning of making that film Cathy could literally not say the word suicide. and by the end of it, you know she's just she's just remarkable her and her father and her brother talking and doing mental health work trying to de stigmatize the shame around suicide just an incredible progression of human experience So she had basically asked me she said even when I ask you not to do certain things, will you do them? Well. Let's take another break here. I'm speaking with Kirsten Johnson filmmaker and cinematographer her newest movies called. Dick Johnson is dead it comes out on Netflix on Friday. This is fresh air. Support for this podcast and the following message come from each raid trading isn't for everyone but each rate is whether it's saving for a rainy day or your retirement. Each rate has you covered they can help you check financial goals off your list and with a team of professionals giving you support when you need it, you can be confident that your money is working hard for you get more than just trading with each raid to get started visit e-trade dot com slash podcast for more information each rate securities llc, member Finra SIPC. If you're just joining us our guest is documentary filmmaker and cinematographer Kirsten Janssen. So when you're growing up here, both your parents were seventy advances and that. One of the things that meant is that you were not supposed to see movies and television right but it sounds like maybe your dad snuck you in every now and then so how how old were you when you saw your first movie and what wasn't? So yes. So you know these rules were always the rules are always a little bit. Somehow we weren't supposed to see movies in theaters, but we definitely watch TV But my dad took me to see young Frankenstein at the John Dance Theater in Bellevue and I was totally Thrilled and my favorite moment was like you know the such big knockers I was like, I can't believe they're saying. I was so excited. I was so titillated and. Just like scandalized. What is your dad make of that sort of? Contradiction that you weren't really supposed to see movies, but he would go anyway. He No, I think my father had great curiosity about the world. You know he was really into jazz. He was really into reading novels. He was you know and and there there was one strand of absenteeism where it was like you know basically, you should only be reading the Bible there was another strand of absenteeism that was you know quite intellectual and my father the church that we attended the Green Church was near the University of Washington had a very eclectic set of people who consider themselves thinkers and Would even be willing to say, okay, someone here's an atheist and let's talk about that My mother was more conservative and more concerned about the things I would see in movies which I would say it was you know basically sex and violence she didn't want me to see but I think about that I think a lot about the indelible image right and. How I have been marked by certain things, I have seen that have transformed me as a person. So I don't I don't think that my mother was entirely wrong. I think that there things that you can see as images or in movies that you forever. So, growing up to do you think of yourself as pretty devout. I was devout. It wasn't I just thought of myself as devout I. I really believed in God I believe God could That God knew all of my thoughts and So you know this is a real internal struggle I would have where I would think something like Goof God just heard me think that but in avenue you get a choice of when you you know when you get baptized, you're sort of eleven twelve thirteen and there's a list of things that you must say that believe in before you get baptized and I read it and I was such an earnest devout kid and I didn't believe I was like one how can there be God Jesus in the Holy Spirit and there's no women just like that's weird. and. Two I just couldn't believe we were the chosen people because I just hadn't met that many seventh day adventists and I was like the world's big place like how are the Sunday haven't is the chosen people. So I told my parents said I got will know that I'm lying if I get baptized. And they said, you don't have to get baptized. That's the kind of people my parents were but I think in some ways they knew I had so internalized all of the rules of seventh day adventists I was I was really keeping the rules on my own time so that even as I started to question it, you know I didn't drink until I was in my mid twenties you know like all of these kinds of things were ver- Things that I followed for quite a long time. You said that you internalize rules. Do those rules still come into play in your life now at all? Oh absolutely I mean I think. I think the wish to be a decent person that that you if you were seen in every moment that you would be an honorable person and that you would've been decent other people i. think that matters you know I just. I just went saw my dad for the first time since the pandemic started and we moved him to a dementia care facility and the woman there who is from Togo who is taking care of my dad when I went to visit him, she said, you know I believe that God sees me all the time, and so you can trust the way that I'm taking care of your father. And I just couldn't believe it I was like well, you know she is me and I am her and and there's some of us who have been raised to believe that we are seeing in in every moment even if no one sees us, you know even if we are doing the most humble of work and the most difficult work I think being a caregiver for someone dementias incredibly difficult work So as it was amazing to that moment with her yeah, that's also probably really reassuring to think about your father getting such good care. Do. You have a lot of of dementia in your family on both sides both your parents had a former dementia and I think one of your grandparents may have has as well like do you worry about what's going to happen to you in the future as you get older? Well, I think the good news for me is I. Truly believe in the unexpected. So I like I like it's totally predictable that I'll get Alzheimer's so I feel like something else is going to happen. But that may mean that it's going to be just like some colossally horrendous accident, but I would really love it if I went and some hilarious way that would make me really happy. Hopefully not an air conditioner. So, how's Your Dad doing these this? Well I just saw him for the first time like I said, and he was Obagi me to take him home which he I talked to him every day on facetime and he's totally like a love it here the food's great I'm being really well taken care of, but then when I showed up in person like, please take me home please take me home he you know he said it on a loop for thirty minutes straight and then you know I held it together and then walk to the car and just like lost it. And then we went back the next day and he's like, Oh, I'm so glad to see what are you doing here and and I took a different tact and I really talk to him about like questions I had about parenting and he he basically you know gave me great advice about parenting that that I just need to affirm my children like he's just like he's like everything will be fine if you just affirm them, they're gonNA, figure out what they care about. They're going to figure out how to build their lives. All you have to do is a firm them. And so that was just like I just hung there is and then it was like all happy go lucky and he like went inside and then I turned around because I brought this box of things to leave for him photos and stuff that they needed to. Disinfect. Turned around and he was standing at the window. Like only this handed the window like please take me please take just like can't believe I saw that image and I'm totally like that one's not GonNa leave me like dad just like scratching at the window. please. Let me out you know. So it's on it's still live and function, and then you know he talked to a reporter yesterday about the The Premier and he's delighted and it's going to be his birthday. Friday turn eighty eight years old and he's kind of thrilled and can't believe it that net flicks and all the beautiful people there are taking him out into. So many countries around the world and so you know. It's all things. We'll Kirsten Johnson. Thanks so much for being on fresh air. Sam This has been such a pleasure. Thanks a lot. Kirsten Johnson's newest film is called Dick Johnson is dead. It comes out on Netflix this. Friday she spoke with fresh air producer Sam brigger. Coming up Justin Chang. Reviews the new comedy, the forty year old version which wanted directing award this year. Sundance Film Festival this is fresh air. there. These networks of staunchly pro gun groups on facebook and one of them is run by these three brothers the door brothers. Turns out, they don't just do guns. The door family name has been attached to other causes. Their goal is to eliminate public education and to replace it with Christian schooling the roots of the door family on the no compromise podcast from NPR. With the passing of Ruth Bader Ginsburg the president is hoping to fill the seat with a conservative judge, an evangelist who play an important part in American politics have been waiting for this moment but how did evangelical become such a powerful force listen now to the history of evangelicals on the through line podcast from NPR the forty year old version wanted directing award at this year's Sundance Film Festival for first time filmmaker rob a blank who also wrote and starred in the movie The story which began as a web series was inspired by. Blanc's own experience as a playwright and rapper in Harlem lean away. Th was one of the producers of the film which opens in some theaters this week and will then stream on net flicks are critic Justin Chang has a review while the American film industry still has a long way to go in nurturing movies made by women and people of Color the Sundance Film Festival has long provided an important platform for marginalized voices. This is the festival that recently introduced us to pictures like the farewell from Lulu Wong and clemency from Cimini Chukwu. Eight years ago Eva do vernay premiered her film middle of nowhere at Sundance and became the first black woman in the festival's history to win best director for an American drama. This year Rod, a blank became the second black woman to earn that prize for her first feature the forty year old version. It was a worthy winner, not just because terrific movie, but also because it specifically about the challenges of making meaningful personal art from an underrepresented perspective. Blanks artistry has many facets. She has a sharp ear for comic dialogue and an exquisite I having shot this movie on Gorgeous Black and white thirty five millimeter film. She also gives a very fine performance as a fictionalized version of herself also named Rod a blank, a struggling artist from Harlem who was hailed years earlier as a promising playwright. Now just a few months shy of her fortieth birthday. She has little to show for that promise besides a play that she's been working on for ages. She pays the bills by teaching drama at a local high school and spends a lot of time commiserating with her talent agent and longtime buddy archie played by Korean American actor Peter Kim in a sly riff on the gay best friend Trope. Archie urges rata to seize any in every opportunity even if it may require some compromise at a party one night, he steers her toward j Whitman a powerful theater producer played with delicious smartness by Tony, award winner read Bernie. Whitman has read rods play, and he has some feedback on the story which follows a black couple in a fast gentrifying Harlem. That's it. No. No no, it's about gentrification. And how this young couple struggles to you didn't like it the ideas powerful, but it rang a little inauthentic. Okay well, thank you for that node. I appreciate. That there's something there. I just wish you had shied away from darkness if if you're GonNa, call it Harlem. You GotTa give me. Art Lamont I should write an team mother shooting up in an alley no no no. No you're missing my point. I'm talking about gentrification. A Black Harlem shifting under a white hip story and grab. But you're playing ever goes. There I asked myself did a black person really right this. Up Delta. Blues. There's definitely a voice under all those works, but the writing needs work. The good news is. I still need a writer for my Harriet Tubman musical. After some tussling Whitman does eventually agreed produce Rhonda's play. He demands numerous changes including the introduction of a White Co lead in order to show the face of gentrification itself, and of course, draw a larger audience blank clearly delights in skewering the tone condescension of white men who fancy themselves cultural gatekeepers. But one of the reasons the forty year old version is so disarming is that blank saves the toughest criticism for self. She lets a see her character grapple with deep insecurities about her talent, her calling and her future sometimes with tears but more often with a well-timed Self Deprecating Jab. At one point rotted decides to abandon theater and reinvent herself as a rapper seizing upon a long ago passion that she hopes will tie her more closely to a strong community of black artists and so begins a wide ranging tour of new. York's hip hop scene from boxing ring in the Bronx or female rappers go ferociously head to head to a Brooklyn club where rotted a some recordings with a gruff but sensitive DJ played by Aswin. Benjamin. Rojas talent in this arena is more than apparent even if her nerves sometimes get the better of her like when she freezes on stage in front of an audience that includes several of her high school students. If you cringe virata in that moment, as I did consider it proof of how deeply blank has secured your emotional investment in her journey. That's no small feat considering all the crowd pleasing underdog drama cliches the story could have stumbled into, but somehow avoids more obvious telling the story might have ended with Rod discovering her true calling rapper or figuring out how to put on a successful version of her play that stays true to her create a vision. But blank seems less interested in clear resolutions than in examining how these two distinct worlds theater and hip hop have shaped her complex identity as an artist she doesn't feel entirely at home in either space and yet her work at its best becomes a bold synthesis of both. As fast as funny as much of it is the forty year. Old version also has a rich vein of melancholy. There's an elegiac quality to the black and white images which might bring to mind vintage New York pictures like Manhattan shadows and she's got have it spike Lee's auspicious nineteen ninety-six debut. As. It happens she's got a habit recently spawned a TV series for which blank wrote a few episodes, but it would be a mistake to squeeze her into any kind of mold based on her influences. Rod Blank already has voiced that is gloriously her own whichever version of it we hear next. Justin Chang is the film critic for the La Times. Tomorrow show the prospects for a constitutional crisis in the presidential election Atlantic staff writer. Barton, Gilman says if Donald, trump claims mail in voter fraudulent and. The results Republican. Legislators might then try and ignore their states' popular votes and the Senate trump representatives to the Electoral College Gilman considers the possibilities in a new article. Hope you'll join us. Fresh, air's executive producer is Danny Miller. Our senior producer today is Roberta shorrock. Our Technical Director and engineer is Audrey Bentham our interviews and reviews are produced an edited by Amy Salad, Phyllis Myers Sam. brigger. Lauren CRANDALL had Soman. They challenor Seth Kelly and Kayla Lattimore. Our associate producer of digital media is Molly Seavy Nesper. Theresa Madden. Directed. Today. Show, for Terry Gross I'm Dave Davies.

Kirsten Johnson Seattle New York Netflix Dick Johnson New York City Alzheimer York Justin Chang Kristen Johnson producer Terry Gross Kirsten Harlem Sundance Alzheimer's Disease Rod Blank Dad
Goin' Deep with 'Dick Johnson Is Dead' Creator Kirsten Johnson

The No Film School Podcast

1:00:42 hr | 6 months ago

Goin' Deep with 'Dick Johnson Is Dead' Creator Kirsten Johnson

"Have you ever thought about how you wanna die. Weird question and one that today's podcast guest. Kirsten asked me in the middle of our interview. This interview with documentarian camera person. Filmmaker karston johnson goes places that most interviews about moviemaking. And filmmaking don't but that's because of the movie schmidt dick johnson is dead. Which is an incredible doc. If you haven't seen it available on netflix. It is about her father and about her father dying and about death in ways that go beyond the expectations because it specifically about preserving someone through cinema and what you can do with a memory or person or a moment in time or an experience how you can capture it. She asks me a lot about my own life and my own experiences with death and my own ideas about it. Which is not something that i saw coming but makes perfect sense because she's an incredible documentary filmmaker and the lesson. You might learn listening to her is. What is the hallmark of a great documentary. Filmmaker how did you become interested in the people around you in a way that leads you to great stories and also leads you to becoming a great leader or becoming a great director or becoming a great human being all of these things and more in. Today's interview with chris johnson. So much about your career. That i wanna talk about but i have to start just talking about dick. Johnson is dead and what feels like a movie. That is assaulting the idea of mortality almost or intimidating to create cinematic immortality and. I'm just fascinated by that on so many levels emotionally but psychologically spiritually what I know it's a deeply personal film. I guess. I'm just curious. Was that part of the the inspiration. This idea that you wanted to try to fight against the temporary nature of existence with cinema added lily. Absolutely like why not give it. Bri i think every one of us struggles with the concept of immortality throughout the course of our lives. And there's sort of this like who wonderful thought to like you live on in the people you have loved right but i think as someone who loves cinema. It's this wild thing of getting to meet people who are already dead through cinema and so that some of the people who have changed my life made life worth living. Were already dead when i met them for the first time right i actually Was reading in the guardian. This morning. there was this article about a an artist i had never heard of. Whose name is maggie ham wayne and she's just you know force of nature but she was quoting outta and she said i just was looking at it so good The basically are is The way the sort of the most possible way to break bread with the dead. Yeah that's i. I'm so taken with this idea. It never occurred to me that it was a way to relate to people that were already gone. You just think of like well get to know this filmmaker or i'll get to know this performer or the subject of a dock. And that just is the. They happen to be on caught on cinema. And that's how i know them. You know like you say. It never occurred to me that we could do that with the people in our lives I don't know that it occurred to anyone before you have to be on his fascinating idea. i mean i've lost people you know i think so. Many of us have lost ritual for many different reasons. Right neighbor we do or don't have religion in our lives. Certainly in the time of this pandemic we cannot gather. Many of us would say like being in a movie. Theater was our form of ritual. But this idea that we can co create with the people we love some form of ritual or some way of having conversation and the thing. That's just trippy for me with that. It has brought my mother back to me with such a force. And i'm talking. You know sort of every different level mother died in two thousand seven about timers and you to look at the way she Enters this movie like you know the movie is doing one thing until you see the footage of my mother and then you're like oh. This is kind of like beasts rising from the dead sneering as gut punch you in that moment but you know to like yesterday. I got an email from someone i knew childhood earns until for forty years and they wrote me this whole long paragraph about an afternoon they spent with my mother. And you know and that's happening to me like almost every day since i made this film so that so that it's not just like an idea that the film is bringing my mother back to life and my father like him in life. It's actually happening. It's actually to remitting relationships that had fallen away. Yeah i'm Kind of at a loss for words. When i think about it. I think i've always thought. And i think many people do cinema is a bit of a time portal You can experience another time in in. Its all its fullness You can experience other ideas and other people. But i've never thought of it as it relates to mortality at least the mortality of people who aren't cinema legends. What i mean right right legend right right. You've active into cinema in this way. I mean i had a. i had a late grandfather. Who was part of the great generation and he lived into his nineties and people in the family kept talking. Oh we should record him audio recorder interviews and i long for those things. Because we didn't do it. You know nobody got around to it but it never occurred to me that it was it was more like the idea was posterity. You know oh well. He did such in world war two such and such but the seeing your film reminded me that that there's so much more that is possible and capturing the essence not just recording. Well this is what my father was like this. I'm so glad any new. What's what's like one of the thing. So i think you bring up such interesting language for posterity right like sort of who is that four and this notion that it's too late we didn't record. I grandmother my grandfather announced too late fact. There are some people alive who knew your grandfather. There are photos of your grandfather. You have never seen like there is a way for you in this present moment to find things out about your grandfather. You didn't know and you don't know what the nature of those things will be. His death meant the end to the imagining of how he might come back to life and yet like he's here this conversation right jack jack and like when you think of jack what age do you think of him at the end. The nineties nineties s. He's nineties. He made it into his mind so he was the twentieth century I always used to say. He sought charlie chaplin movies in the theaters but he ever was pulp fiction expand for me as a cinema fan. It always felt like this man lived the twentieth century in cinema uncanny pulp fiction and john travolta coming back to life is part of version for me for spring. My mother back to life in camera person for making this film in which we resurrect right like these your time. Loops around. So like your. Your grandfather had a sense of humor. Jack had a sense of humor into. So where is it located you know. What did he need. Who are the people who remember it. You know and and just like the that you could get off of this conversation and send an email or call someone who knew jack and ask them some. You don't know about jack and like that's the thing for me that so exciting about how alive is process is because you and i and jack share a love of cinema we encountered movies at different points in our lives but we we have a language that comes from it right and and we have exactly what you're talking about this sort of experience like stepping into the portal But what. I think about that so exciting to me having made this film is like i don't know how time functions rate like i don't know where this conversation takes us. I don't know where. Jack will lead us so excited like you may get off this conversation. Make that call and come back and say jack led me to this right then you somewhere else and like that possibility was such an animating force with this movie but on a certain level what we all have to struggle with is sort of like. Why didn't we do it sooner. Or what prevented you all from recording. Jack and part of my thing is that you know we camera brings the future into the room and also brings death into the room so that to film a person in their nineties or to record a person in their nineties is to be explicit about ending death and embrace that with your father that notion obviously he does like how much more fun to fully embrace me like. We're gonna die actually going to kill you today. Then you can sort of that sort of incredibly intense high stakes. I'm afraid to have this conversation. Because i'm afraid one of us is gonna cry. You know all of that. Fear and shame that prevents us from making things with each other from asking each other questions or having conversations. And i'm not saying any of this is easy run out. We have eight year old kids and it's just like you know. What moment do you tell them about the terrible things of the world. You're constantly in this position. Like i really wanna talk about that and they also don't wanna hear certain things nevada. I know having done it with my own kids. They hear their own version or interpreted their own way. I'll know your. I can tell part of what your amazing filmmaker and it's it's apparent in this conversation because you almost in a way you turn the the lens that i'm the interview but you turn the lens at me and suddenly i felt like you. Were you start creating a narrative. The great idea of documentarian to me is somebody who can follow the story and understand that where they point the camera things change but then see what happens and then explore it. And it's like. I'm watching you do that in real time. It's will thank you for seeing me. And i am seeing you and that's what i feel like. Is this work that we do right. It's like it's these. Relationships and relationships are back and forth. Like by learning about jack. I had like i can go to new places about why cinema matters to you right and i think that you know the fact i see this red button going and twelve minutes have passed. It's like paid. Time is of essence. So let's go there. Why not go there as opposed to pretending that you don't exist and you don't have a past you bring to this conversation. I don't have a pass that i bring to this conversation. You know i'm thinking about jack. Made me think about my grandfather elmer. Johnson who is my dad's father and was serving in the military in san francisco in one thousand nine hundred eighteen. And i was just listening to a podcast about the spanish influenza. And and how basically like that. It was called the spanish influenza because no countries that were battling enrolled war. One wanted to admit that their soldiers were getting sick and i was the only one who would admit. And so this sort of thing about how things get covered up and not spoken about and denied that for me is part of the project that i'm involved in and it's like see the other person be a documentary like changed perspective acknowledged that we collectively make things together. We make them in moments in history and that also there's like sort of collective efforts to hide things it fascinating how quickly we think we matter so much. We do in the context of our moments in our people around us. But it's so fast that things become obscured and hidden and facts become warped and distorted. And i had no idea. I had no idea that that was the truth behind. Spent why it's called spanish influence because it's called that i just walked around this earth assuming it had. It was one hundred percent associated with spain and spanish nece incorrect. And how it doesn't that long for that kind of mythology to grow which changes everything changes everything. It changes everything that your role is a filmmaker again. It's that pointing the camera or being journalistic which got which certainly need more of. But it's like saying well. What is it really and then saying for all of us like see like this is what it really is illuminated. Something for us. Yeah and and i think arthur miller said like the job of artists is to reveal what has been hidden and i think that can be like you know sort of terrible things corruption and abuse and violence and racism. You've done and also it can be like sort of weird uncanny like miraculously strange connections so for example in the making of this film My father went to visit lolita hearst. Who was an old question is And when we feel after we filmed it you know we set is said to hit her children like can you send me a picture of bud. Who was her husband and with the children without knowing anything about the story line in the movie that my father was born with no toes. What do they send me. But a picture of bud who's a. It was a well respected doctor sitting at his desk with his bare feet up on his desk. And i pulled that photo out on the envelope and like started laughing hysterically. Like how is that audible. How was that operable. It's not like everybody's pictures of their father in their bare feet like and in it's just magical so there's like a magical connections that are hidden and i love. It's leg that jack love pulp fiction. You wanted jack through that. Like how fun is that an answer the delight and the humor and the absurdity is also hidden to us when we try to be so literal explaining and serious about everything right. I think you mentioned earlier. You don't you said quickly you don't understand the nature of time. We have a false sense of security. That time is works a certain way that we can manage it. A certain way and that outcomes are somewhat predictable in. It's all predicated on nothing because anything can happen. And we don't understand truly how time works or what are connections are to the past and to me things like a film like this or ruminating on people from the past or dreams about them they feel is alive in a way as they ever did in thought or in what is essentially a a flashback. You made a movie that feels kind of like a time portal or freezing something in time even in the short time since you've made it how does it feel. Does it feel like captured things about your children at that age. Does it feel like. I mean how does it feel as a human being. It's very alive. And it's i mean in some ways it's like more like more powerful than i even can understand right now. You know there was a double feature drive in that rooftop films hosted in queens in the fall and they showed Dick johnson's dead back to back with camera person. And of course my kid's facetime me while it was in the car and they're like eight years old facetime me while i'm watching them onscreen at two years old and it was too much for me as whoa because because i realized the humor that is built into dick johnson like protects against some of the trauma and pain. That is in camera person. And so i was like i was kind of like roll in with dick johnson and i slammed into camera person like like slamming into a brick wall and i was just like oh all like all of this is my life like what and sort of being transported to it going through the portals was such a powerful mashups for me that it kind of you know stopped me in my tracks. I don't think we can freeze time like i think. Cinema lake allows time to be as fluid as it is And and we built this into the process of making dick johnson. Where we edit rooms a place where you can move time around on the timeline. The idea that we could like move time around on the time line create a scene and then imagine something that could cut into that and then once that cut into that and that would give us a new idea of how to change the time line so we were just like constantly stirring the experienced and the imagined against each other. All these things are unimaginable. Like who a person becomes as dementia creeps into them. It creates an a self that was unimaginable to everyone who knew the south that existed the dementia. That's a whole other layer of this also fascinates me because we're taking jack. For example. my grandfather. I feel like the version i know is only one piece of of the whole person. You are certain person you find out when you have children or really at any point in life but you are a certain person to to those who come after you. You are a certain person to those. Come before you in the family align you don't always show all the sides right you try not to. Or maybe you think you don't but you do or maybe so many facets to how we appear in who's interpreting us That that also. I have this. Lingering question are we always the same person really like are we. Are we constantly changing and in your film. He is undergoing a change. That's traumatic to all in in his in in experiencing dementia. But i wonder you know. Sometimes you feel like you could wake up. Dan like am i new person. Did i just reboot and i just loaded up these memories and now i functioned like what is the. How much do we change ourselves. Turnover like we look back at our actions and we think who is that guy or girl just had such a like hilarious. Discussion was deepak. Chopra about this and you know he believes that doesn't this too but he believes that we are dying every moment and he meditates on death daily and the question is what is the south right and the ways in which we are transformed through time both our bodies are transformed but sort of our brains are transformed the trippie things of learning. You know when you're pregnant the cells from your fetus. Make their way into your brain. And like i am now them great. Wow so anything you know. We're sort of out that at the edges of what science tries to understand consciousness time with cinema. Have we're like get to play in the toolbox of all those things right it. We need of these pieces right. It's made the pieces that allow consciousness right. It's like images around and we experienced interational way when watching a movie and we feel things which is sort of what consciousness is right only. That was what was so fun with this. Like i mean. I can call the movie and it's definitely a movie but it was truly like an experiment like can't live forever canley rebuild him can the dementia like tone apart and we can put them back together again. Can we capture his essence. All of those are like those are very open questions for me. But obviously like i named dick johnson is dead and that is false right now but someday true jess is that why you need it. Yeah i mean you know. My dad was so cute. I like woke up in a cold sweat. When i realized that's what i wanted to name the movie and i was like a can't do that to my taste. I wouldn't and i asked him and he's like oh no it's great because then i'll have reaction formation stay alive forever and that's a demented man like. That's what's so cool about this. Whole project is to be able to have the most profound conversations with my dad despite his dementia so Dementia care facility near my brother. Bethesda and i talked to him yesterday. He's like so. I'm going to start out walking towards you tonight and i was like dad. I dunno it's cold outside. It's nighttime but i just want to get one step closer to. He says these gutted happen but like how like gorgeous and terrible is that that he's hours away from me in this dementia care facility in. He's like scheming. About how is just gonna start walking towards me. He doesn't know where i am. I wonder if there's some way in which the brands rewiring to speak emotional state not just a like beyond the logical state. I mean it's all very interesting unknown. I there's something about what you've done and what you do particularly like with this film but the way you talk about it as you said it was hard at one point. He said it's not easy. It's not easy to approach these things with one parent dealing with the things they're dealing with. I guess it does depend to some extent on the relationship. You know and you two are close or you felt comfortable or at least a little comfortable doing this but also within yourself i mean bearing your soul and your frailty and your emotions and your humanity. We often talk about you. Know we talked to young filmmakers or we hope to help young filmmakers figure out how they tell stories that will resonate right movies that will get made etc and it always comes down to this idea of personal nissen and voice. How do you access it. is it something. You've always been able to be bold enough. I mean you're doing it at a level that i don't think many are bold enough to do. I'm not certainly. How do you get to the place where you're like. I'm just gonna kill but it's like yes so you're putting on screen that so human you know i mean can i tell you it has absolutely been a long struggle and you know i think but a joyful struggle to full of pleasure passionate like quest but i you know lots of people say camera person is the first film i made which is not true but i think why people say that in some ways is because it's the first film in which i'm truly speaking with my own voice. No one could've made these films right and you know i made films about mass incarceration about racism within the justice system. I made crazy a science fiction film about a pandemic in one thousand nine seven always were attempts to make films and to find my voice. But i was. I was afraid while making them. I was pretending to know things. I was struggling and train. And it's a process. It's such a process which is sort of obvious thing to say for young filmmakers. Just till like question. What do you need when you need from this film in my case like i need my father to stay alive forever. I to make something that that allows me to never forget him. Because i have forgotten my mother the alzheimer's so brutal that it wiped out my capacity to remember how she was before it. I see the way in which this is part of the linear. This is part of that experience. That's in the needed. So clear for me like i mean. I was ashamed to be making this film. In two thousand sixteen. The current president had just been elected. There was so much. Social justice need in the world and also i had worked for twenty five years on social justice films and i i was ashamed to say i'm making film just about my own father. Like nice old white. American man like who needs. I mean that's but here's the crazy thing like and where we don't have the ability to predict it did become amazingly in step with our time so when coming and that's why i decided to make this movie not in twenty sixteen when you started this particular journey it may be felt out of step with what was happening in the world but by the time it's released oddly enough is very in step with an experience particularly dealing with saying goodbye. And it's all. I could think of not just my own. Personal is happened in the last few years but i think about all the time right now. How many people may in this country are saying goodbye. Without being able to say goodbye visit brain it's astounding beyond what i can comprehend like and and you made this film. That's this beautiful way of handling and or trying to handle that so krayzelburg. The timing is right. So maybe there's the lesson is just follow that path you know. We don't control the moment in history into which we are born. We don't control whose family were born into. We don't control. What will be the landscape when our films emerged. So why are we trying to control our movies. That was like from me. The most joyful discovery in making this film came when we were working on the heaven hell sequences and through the process of getting to them knowing that my father was advanced enough in his dementia that he was completely unpredictable. I then with the help of marine ryan who's the incredible producer and who is a very like organized future oriented deal with the details person because she respects the craft and because she was crafts craftspeople so somehow together from the two edges. Like me saying like we won't be able to know anything and her saying listen. We need to know many things in order for us respectful of the crew with this process back and forth between us and it was really like you know it was really fun and we had. We had blown it a couple of times earlier in the film. Making of like me. Like missing her deadlines are me like me but this time we got into the sweet spot where i'd be like. Tell me the last possible moment when i need to choose the core. Tell me the last possible moment. When i need to tell you how many sag actors they're going to be in this. Tell me the last possible moment. do we decide. Are we shooting heaven outside or inside. And i met all those deadlines so somehow miraculously there. We had sixty people all understand the that my father might do at any moment and yet it was lit we had all of the you know fluffy clouds were there and the halos were there and you know down to the focus. Polar didn't know what my father was going to do. So we had this whole labyrinth set and it could have all been out of focus but we were where it was like. It's a cave on focus. It might be beautiful so on focus. It was so cool because it was like doing a documentary. It's like here's the world. And all i'm trying to figure out. What do i film. It was so far it was so fun. I mean you've shot you've been you have prolific career shooting docs and you've been all around the world doing it as your films have shown. How did you had to communicate that spirit. I suppose to accrue that was not necessarily like you. See you mentioned a focus. Puller which is such a specific task. How did you imbue everybody with that. spirit like we're going to capture a moment. Whatever question. okay so one. I spoke to everyone and ask them questions. I asked them how they wish to die so georgetti which today. Wow i've not. I haven't thought about that before. I guess i wish to die. Very old Peacefully in my sleep not sick at home with plenty of people. I love still around. Is that how. Jack died pretty much pretty much at so. I'm so happy for him. It was a tough loss but he. I don't think he was happy at the time. But i think he's not generally a happy guy but i think that he was. He was ready in a lot of ways he'd lost his wife and that sent him healthwise into spiral and i think that he's still pretty healthy. He was at home. He was in his sleep and he was very sick in a lot of people in his family loved him around so a good way to go. So the next question. Like for you and your life was like. Could you die happy like that would be like maybe like. Could you add to that to the wish right. Because ray like that's such an interesting. That's what i would do with crew. People just amazing how many people have a connection to someone with dementia or have someone that they've lost someone that worrying about losing so like having those conversations and then just like just seeing people. Because i've worked as crew person long enough to understand. Some directors are so consumed by their own anxieties their own fear about not being able to control everything that they don't live the literally. Don't see you or for example. They're so consumed with their excitement about filming. They forget that they need to eat. And forget the crew needs to eat the crew. Our bodies it's amazing that you got your way. Your answer to my question is i. Try to humanize every single person there. Right and that in and find out who they are on the deepest level. I can't wins. And i don't have any. They have voices telling that that's the way it is like you make an effort to turn these people in the that's why we are honest At you don't feel humanized often right to your car your gear in some ways. You have to do so. Little like people have been so mistreated so unseen so taken for granted that simply the act of seeing them. People are appreciative of the act of being seen. And and to a point that. Like like i oversaw to give credit where credit is due like jp the cima tiger who did the lighting for the heavens stuff at a certain point. He said caja. I don't think you realize how complicated this is for chris to be doing the focus plane like given the focal lengths given. What your dad's doing given the slow motion as you're right like i had only triangulating. My dad not moving where he's supposed to. But i forgot to triangulate the slow mo plus the f. Stop and. I'm like he can't get in focused interviews like what he is and and but but it's fleeting right and i was like rats. Perfect for dementia. But then i started. I started like cheering chris after. Get a shot. And then chris like certain point just like please don't don't please don't put put so much attention to me like i. I can't focus you know. Some people are enrolls. come to a sound. Person is often notoriously a silent person. But i always love what i'm a dp on a shoot to say to the director in an interview Session would it be okay if i ask a question at the end of your interview. And then they might say. Yeah and i said and you might want ask the sound person also and sort of like invariably at the end of like you know four hour interview. It'll be the sound person at the very very end. That the killer question make rectors will forget this person even there. It's amazing or even listening right. It is the person tasked with listening most intently. We ask nothing of you know. It's like my frustration around the ways we don't see people is led me to this like thinking about stunned people and they risk their lives to be invisible in a movie in which another person who is now an actor like get seen right. It's like the most but you know my father took it to another level when michaelo comes into his office and my dad immediately saw like. Are there a lot of people who are suicidal. Like i had never taken it to that level. I was like go dead. That's a wish. Wish there Yeah there's something that's like seeing what is unseen and other people that's also a great job of a of a great documentary. Filmmaker though is like i is identifying in looking behind seeing a human being and seeing a story and seeing many stories. I think that idea of turning a film set into a place where i'm so happy i stumbled into that because i did not expect to ask a question that would lead us to talking about that but because i was just thinking well how do you help them. Make you know what is a narrative moment. when it's or a documentary slash narrative experience happening but To talk about how crews become invisible and just a piece of a machine Sort of astound. Just in the news. There is you know this release of tom. Cruise behaving a cruise. Someone didn't wear masks. Which i am very sensitive to the idea of. It's important to wear masks. But the rant made me so uncomfortable in angry because i was so triggered because i don't think it's okay to talk to people like that like i don't think it's okay to treat it that way and it makes me uncomfortable that it's ego self aggrandizing but it's also like it's it's you're just making a movie like and i think that there's a way to you know it was just you talking about seeing those people. I just think that that came from a place of them. Not being people not seeing them at all really. Yeah well i mean. It's i've experienced it as a crew member and i i'm interested in it like as a human you know we we've project so much onto other people we think we're seeing them but in fact is what people are revealing to us of what is inside of them is quite allusive and you know so. I can look into someone's eyes and the magic. I'm seeing lots of things. But often i have no idea what's going on inside there and and and you know and that's the primary relationship to my father you know like he one of the humans on this planet. I know the best but have no idea what's going on inside of his mind at all anymore with the dementia. And did i ever have any idea what's going his mind right. And so the sort of whenever like the mystery in the fun of that of trying to look and see that. I guess the to go back to your earlier question. Like how do you do you expose yourself in cinema thing you say like. I'm glad i stumbled right. You stumbled and and i. And i think that's where like i have become glad for all of my mistakes. Misspoken moments the ways in which. I fail while filming and i think the that like can we simultaneously say like words matter and and then also be gentle about making mistakes about them. So like how it that we've spent you know two hundred years saying the word slave when we should have been saying people who are enslaved rate and it is these shifts of language make you realize like how language is doing the action it is turning people into slaves literally as opposed to saying people were enslaved by other people who did that to them right and camera person for me. It's like what do i call this movie. you know. well it started with the funny thing like any day. I'm out in the streets with cameras. We'll call me a cameraman and it's like we're looking at me in. It's like hilarious now. Have still people who call camera person cameraman and you're just like how and yet the like we're taught blindness so we can only sort of like bumble our way into you know like bumble and communicate back and forth to getting at like what is this complexity of being human in each of us like you know what our ourselves. What is it death. What is time we gotta bungle into it. Because it's not. There's no string quartet in. I think the greatest wisdom at least i i believe the greatest wisdom is the accepting the more mystery than knowledge of the universe in the world. It just like you don't know like you say you don't know what's going on behind his is now and maybe you never did is just opens up so much. It makes the world if feels closer to truth to me to embrace that unknown I have really enjoyed this. It's been amazing. Maybe even enlightening. But i wanna. I wanna make sure that before we end. I wrap up asking you. You've talked about this movie. Is an experiment is experiment done. And what if you're scientist and this was an experiment. What like what are the results like. How do you measure what it's been you know so many times. We talked about a movie. Tell ongoing experiment. Like what does it mean to my relationship with my own children. What does it really mean to to. What cinema is and the relationships that we have as audience members In this moment in time where we're all engaged with questioning our own futures were all like grappling with anticipatory grief. Were all in denial about what's happening to ourselves in this moment. Like have no idea. We are in the middle of this experiment. And i don't know how long this experiment is gonna go on. You know i don't know is going to see this movie in the future. I don't know if i die before my father does. I don't know if my children are gonna kill me someday but but that's so fun to me. It's so fun. And i mean you know people say these things like an audience is continuing to make the movie with me. I really believe that like you're the way you have looked at. The film allows you to ask me questions that then pushed me to think in new ways and i push you to go bring jack back to life right and i ask you to die happy and i requested like what would it mean. What what what. How if i were to die like how what would that mean. What how could i happy. What would that be look like and to all of that happening just in the last forty six minutes which is which is insane. I mean you you know in filmmaking in the world of creating movies television docs everything. Everybody always comes back to. These ideas like story matters or character matters. And i always want to say why you're explain more like tell me more about why it matters. It always the primary thing. But i feel like in a way again to say stumbled. I feel like you've sort of hit on it. It matters because it's how we make meaning of our world is through narrative like it's how we construct the universe And the events and the experiment being ongoing like you say it's sort of like why started telling this story this way but the story is not like it it's an unfolding story may have a new chapter added when certain events that we can't predict take place and then how people view this film right or maybe somebody like you say changes. How may decide to make film because you approached telling a human story this way. Maybe there's so many places it can go. That's you also mentioned like in the editing room. You guys would chop it up and recreate a timeline. You create meaning in their. That's such a crazy idea. You create meaning out of an actual life right. Oh yes anthony. Yes like oh yes and and we can say like ok. We decided i originally set going to make this movie into my dad. Really dies for real and i didn't do that stopped. I may not be done. You know like and and that's the decision that i have ahead of me right. What do i make next what needs to be made next and you know sort of the the there are many things that are spectacular about youth many but but what is spectacular about eight gene is like the narrative threads that knit together are just like in the ways you can look back at them and look a new at them and so you know this whole experience of putting the film out into the world has just been like this. Is your life. Like i was in. Before like i'm just having rank the woodwork. People from elementary school college. You know senegal. Where i was when i was twenty one and i am getting to see visions of who i was but it's like oh i lost that relationship with that person. I haven't talked to that person thirty years to. I wanna keep talking to that person. What i think this happened on the like you know world scale with facebook for example right there mechanisms that sort of bring our lives in and out of time like this and then what do we do with that because we're all deciding like how does our life have meaning you know. How do i spend my time. Do i spend with. And i think the pandemic is also just like this cute slow pot pressure cooker of a reevaluation. What are my priorities. What is the meaning. I care the most about it. It's like were. It's like the process of making a film. It's like okay. what do i god here. I'm going to examine it. Or i'm gonna avoid examining it. I mean i think this is. This is a really spectacular historical moment to be alive in and it's in. It's not unlike the process of making a movie where it's like. You don't know when it's going to end and you feel like you're failing and you feel the anxiety and loss of it but there's also like sort of a giddy exhilaration have the unknown parts of it and also just out of your control. It's exciting to talk to you because you make it sound like whatever the future is. There's so much there's so much possibility. I think that the pandemic has also served to make people feel locked in literally but also like locked in place like we're stuck stuck here. You presented it as like a what an amazing time to witness to be alive and what comes next. And what are we going to do with it yet. Radical perspective on what matters to us and all the things that you know things that have been impossible have shifted said. Oh what what. What can that allow us to reimagine. Yeah obviously it no film school. Our community is extremely interested in cinematography. Which is your job. Be your natural fit for the world of our audience but also what gear people used to shoot on and why You've probably shot on all kinds of cameras Like i can't imagine your list of being a camera person as long as you've been You know what lead you to choose what you choose but also on this particular project. Why did you make the choice. You did so you know. The question is often asked. What cameron did you shoot. This on as if the camera itself creates the phone. And i want people to remember. You're in history. And so when i came into the history of filmmaking. Unfortunately i arrived just as shooting documentaries was on sixteen millimeter and we were starting to shoot on v. h. s. formats with lenses integrating into cameras in standard definition. And i probably not on the worst cameras in the history of cinema for about fifteen years and you are those people walk. That look now look has that look is a history that is his the technology that is available to you and this can be you know the technology of to a person who has new funds and lives in a place where there is no gear to rent. That might be a cellphone right. The technology that is available to a wealthy person in place where they can rent a phantom has a different technology available to them. So think about you have access to certain technologies because of where you are in history because of your relationship to money because of your relationship to other people and since none of us know what the future looks like none of us can imagine like oh we look back at standard def and say like ooh. That's beautiful it's none of these. Technologies are beautiful in and of themselves. They are only in combination with a human eye. And that's about to change because is can artificial intelligence will be filming beautiful things your machine you know. I think i question like i'm searching for language. Like mis cyborg while at one point. I was like. I shot all the time with a panasonic devi x one hundred and i would work and then for a while. I was a canon c. Three hundred years in years. I was a canon c three hundred and then for the first time in my life i was able to afford cannon cine lenses and i could change lenses and how these just like seeing the world to this beautiful glass instead of basically seen it through plastic right and i think of myself as sort of like intertwined with the historical moment intertwined with the technology available to me in that moment because of many factors in my relationship to how i can handle that technology i took the above. I shot this teeny tiny h one hundred could fit in the in the palm of my hand like a camera so small i couldn't even see the blimp that i was filming in the sky but i want safe. I didn't want anyone to see that. I had a camera so you. There's all kinds of reasons why people choose the cameras that they choose or cameras forced upon them by circumstances but this limits us it is only like it's a part of the way that we fumble and stumble and fail our way into expressing who we are at a moment in history so use any technology that is available to you which allows you to express who you are in that moment and what you need in that moment and i'm telling you if you really go far people are going to look back and say wow that cameras incredible. What did you shoot. That are such a good answer. I love that. It's like saying to an honest like look. Maybe you don't have a brush. Maybe you can only scratch with iraq on the side of a wall but you can still use that to tell thousands of years now your cave and freak out and say. Isn't this beautiful. that's right. So what about the dick johnson camera and the circumstances in history and time and monetarist. I was started. You know so. Much of some footage from dick johnson comes from before i knew i was making dick johnson. Yes so right. So that's the footage of my mother when she had alzheimer's which i shot on the panasonic one hundred and then shot in four three right. I'm shooting in a square rectangle and that matters in the film. You see that. That is the past right. You see that footage is different from the footage that comes after it and then in that c. Three hundred period film things with my father. My father driving in his car across the bridge. You film that not knowing that someday my father would be unsafe to put my father behind the wheel of his own car. Right and so. It's like that footage. It looks different than it is different. It's already the past and mail is by being different. Yes in in the things in this happens all the time documentary. Where film something in. You don't know what's going to disappear you know. So many of us found the world trade center in the background of shots or we see it in the background of movies. And it's like we didn't know it would disappear right and people to and now when i see that footage i mean i remember looking at footage in thinking. Oh it looks terrible. You know that good. And now when i see they just like i could cry looking at it. It's so fun to see my father. Driving the things we understand retrospectively about footage and i think about like kelly reichardt making meek's cutoff and shooting in that little square and change in our relationship to how we looked at the american west and from whose perspective were seen and so i think we use can sort of us cinema language. Do these things and when you look at the ambulance section of the film in which we were trying to think like how can we talk the audience right into really thinking. Dad really died or really took that ambulance ride well. Kirsten johnson is camera person so she knows she's we know she knows she's making a movie which he really bring her her. You know panasonic eva with her into the ambulance her heart attack. No she wouldn't do that but she would have her cell phone and then maybe she put herself on out and like but then if you know something serious happened. She wouldn't care about filming anymore. She on would have dropped on the floor and it would stay there and so we thought about all of that. We thought about the cinema language of all of that not not in terms of style or the look of it but in terms of cinema language. What would kirsten johnson do in the future. If her father was having a heart attack in an ambulance came and she was making a movie. It's amazing to think. Yeah you made the camera. The user of the camera character. A writer of the story essentially. That's great and then we created the dishes like we like hired real. Emt guys and explain to us what would happen. What wouldn't happen. And i wrote in the ambulance. Phone dropped it on the floor. That is very cool. Yeah well thank you so much again. It's like every question. Get such a thorough and fascinating answer. It's been really fun. My rainy everything. George i jack today and i would love it. If you would send me a picture of him i can do that. Yeah absolutely actually. I can say he. Yeah i can send you one when he was enrolled war to. He met mao station china. Yeah that's sort of his thing. That was his like his favorite thing about his. Take him. I think he was like overwhelmed. I think he was young. He was twenty. He'd but you know it's funny. We didn't have the kind of relationship where i would ask him. And that's that goes into the story of like. I never asked him things like that. Like what did you think now what he would have answered. He probably would have shrugged. But that's right you know but it's that was his thing. So maybe i'll find that picture and to you. I would love to see jack him together. Thanks everybody for listening this. Definitely one of the most fun interviews. I've done simply because it got into stuff that goes into the meaning of existence and how we handle and process the most challenging in central questions to our lives. If we're not doing stuff like that what are we doing. Why are we making movies. Telling stories We could do a lot of things to make money that are easier. We don't have to try and make it in this industry. Certainly it's not the easy choice and if you're interested in things like fame or money there are other things you could try making movies that answer the central questions of existence in telling stories that cover them in the way that kirsten approaches life is fascinating and worthwhile and It was a joy to have her on the show. And thank all of you for listening. the no film school podcast exists. Because you want it to so. Don't forget to email us questions for our weekly podcast at ask at no film school dot com if you want us to talk about things like we talked about on this episode or if you want us to check into different kinds of guests or cover different topics let us know and if you have specific questions about how to do things gear. You should buy remember to let us know. I hope you're having a great twenty twenty one as it has started strange as it has been and will hope to hear from you said.

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Inside Supercars - #213 - Fathers Series- Dick Johnson

Inside Supercars

08:01 min | 2 years ago

Inside Supercars - #213 - Fathers Series- Dick Johnson

"Lou. Thing and we're in the business of gone five teams, and the push it to the absolute limits and sometimes ever and that that's what happens. Just merged into into the family, if the whole alone, I'll even Barrett, but that right to Greece dot intense mania, some like that that is an acceptable from the rice treks across the strategy at he is inside supercars. Welcome back to John service is John tiny. We're talking this special trading spotted is Sydney cow fathers. We went to the man probably basement movie. I connecting Johnson. And if we counsel he was lucky up savvy, son Sunwing, he's second tearing commerce as championship. Also, the Mustangs gum the previous year and up to right? We're gonna hear from big Tokyo. He's role as a father that is as well as being out of big banks keys. Dick Johnson coming up each week. Joined the inside might sport team as I look at all the news from across the scalea and around the world. I mean, it means a lot in through the years. A lot of reference this race is one of our majors six hundred miles around. Here is no easy task. Dilemma to poison may bigly. The pawn star we're out tie that. We don't. Right with the family inside modest for broadcast community radio and online at sport radio dot com. Dodi you the views expressed on inside supercars, including the panelists and guests do not reflect the views of the network fund media sport radio any publication will rebroadcast of the show without the expressed. Written permission of thunder media is strictly prohibited. So walk back to Sunday at. Counsel for the final rice of the year. Carter biting right thing is you you dick Jones goes moldable champion in the cello. Starting during jam he lives. Dick one over they here and great team to be in such -sition. It is you know, it's that Sydney this despise commodity over again. On another one like so. Yes, time down to the last rice was on your point the difference between us. Yeah. Yeah. It's a bit of Daij. I wasn't there were with that man because you pay had great respect for each other. And you didn't lead on each other too much ninety Benetton, but I'm an offing by shining, Scott tend to have that nutriments bakery. Well, it's not the Jamie Jamie, very fair drivers. Well, I like. Sign rice. But that's, you know, expect and but as long as I rice fair, that's what are the things that has always mocked about shines driving Tiki. I think the others have maybe that exhibit shined us he doesn't need to win a race to joy when he gets out of account. He's come saying. He's always wanted to get one hundred buddies anyway. Wow. Wanted to talk to you about with Stephen he's on the cusp of his back to back championships, which is fantastic. Enjoy numerously him having success or yes, it's been a long time coming, you know, it's it's unfortunate to get didn't get the opportunity you should've had, but it was a little bit at Amman control. But these going pretty good movie on on. Because it's for me. It's like going back to light sixties, you know, like a family team again getting into this Huda going to rising, and that's the TC enjoy a bit great category. And and I can see it's huge pitcher. Yes. And Oviously you've got something really easy hunt. The day of these nearing completion. Well, nearing completion on the computer. Look look forward to getting that that happened running the things being fantastic. Our and and the tiny, Bob McIvor netted been absolutely fantastic. And yeah, we developed a cop getting that period. It's on and it's been successful. It's probably the most winning cower in the whole field on because it had a huge Perea craw too. Brought a tiny one buying it. Much of the health who go into the factory. So everything every every every night pretty much every there at six thirty in the morning that, but you know, all these pretty important because all the boys in that item. And do a couple of things in the function one things. I thoroughly enjoyed it's also about what Olin's Bill was well in the first row and freeze workshop and many people still way. So you'll never the elements ruling rice all the Cato any operation is is is having good. And and when you get good people go to, and that's we done through through the whole law, Saul of DJ Degi team Pinski, and and for me, it's a real bonds because just enjoy the guys and seeing. Enjoyer? And honestly to say that come rodri- that's between Ola guys. They're get onto. There's never really angry with renting that it's just been tested. You know, the interesting to see what was an old female team may be quite amusing. But I'm sure that do the same the clean house regards to which he to he's to him every day. He does a lot of stuff for as a matter of fact, one of the guys that comes away on the on the TC team with Torelli, and Stephen and that is. Manipu- gonna son. That's rob Roby. To what you want. The other one that I've sickos KC. I see pike. Dice as still air. Payment basi- on ninety seven. Any still the same nail? Enjoy your weekend will say. Thanks time each way joined the inside motor sport team as I look at all the news across the scarlet and around the world, and you know, every year off Jackie curve on praying for my felt of his part in inciting the path. After type account too sick to sport. With interviews. News and opinion, Jack, certainly let Mark know lending on dried in motor sport birth mother's for four around the world inside modest four broadcast on community radio and online at sport radio dot com. Are you joining the conversation post your thoughts on radio Facebook page makes show we'll have chance. Mosser's father Eddie world around the panic. And I might the cosmic better since then. And there was ridiculous mandate for is involved. And all that which I qualified to be an astronaut or whatever makes many other things that eighty does. He drives the transporter to whole Fox Sports studios to each of the vein steering the year. So that's next week show with Eddie Munster. Inside supercars is produced by thunder media Hyun in next week for more at sport radio dot com to or locking the podcast on your mobile device. Search inside supercars.

Dick Johnson Sydney Stephen John tiny Lou. Thing Sunwing Barrett Tokyo Jamie Jamie Greece Dick Facebook Perea craw Eddie Munster dick Jones Saul Daij Bob McIvor Fox Sports studios Amman
#795: Dick Johnson Is Dead / Wanda (Overlooked Auteurs #4)

Filmspotting

1:16:14 hr | 10 months ago

#795: Dick Johnson Is Dead / Wanda (Overlooked Auteurs #4)

"What kind of a show you guys putting on here today we're not interested in. going. To do this thing going to have a conversation. From Chicago this film spotting I met Him Company at I'm Josh Larsen. He's a psychiatrist. I'm a camera person. I suggested we make a movie about him dying. He said yes. The camera person and narrator in that clip is Kirsten Johnson. Whose new film Dick Johnson is dead hits Netflix this weekend Johnson's film isn't just about her aging father dying it's about him dying over and over and over again even takes a trip to heaven. At one point we've got a review of Dick. Johnson is dead plus the next film and are overlooked tours marathon Barbara Loden Wanda from nineteen seventy that Moore. I'm Adam, he's Josh I suggested we make a show about movies he said Yes ahead I'm film spotting. Thanks to masterclass for supporting film spotting, you can find hundreds of video lessons from today's most brilliant minds available anytime anywhere on. android desktop apple TV and Amazon Fire TV get fifteen percent off your annual all access pass at masterclass dot com slash Josh and Adam. locum to film spotting a couple of weeks back are overlooked. Oh, tours. Marathon had raving about Shantelle Ackerman's John dieleman movie about a woman who hardly left her home this week we returned to the marathon with Barbara. LODEN WANDA WITH JOSH allows us to wonder what may have happened to John Dieleman if she just walked away and left her good for nothing son to make those. Veal cutlets for himself while there that is a thought experiment though John and Wanda very different people i. don't know if it would have gone down just like this very different people very different films that marathon review of Wanda coming later in the show. But First Kirsten Johnson's Dick Johnson is dead a gift to her father and anyone who has a loved one struggling with dementia. She Kills Me Multiple Times. Resurrected Day. Did that. But now it's. The beginning of his disappearance. A eight most about my memory loss is it hurts people's feelings. Pena that you woke up in the middle of the mate last night. Fully dressed. Remember. Any of that. Yeah. What can we do that? Everybody has sort of prepare because everybody dies watch too much for that. After more than two decades as a prolific cinematographer shooting her share of relatively straightforward documentaries, which isn't to suggests boring inconsequential but more traditionally fly on the wall Kristen has now directed to inventive decidedly unconventional ones. Two Thousand Sixteen camera person was a memoir comprised exclusively of footage shot across the globe eighty six different countries Johnson filmed in I believe is the count the content was, of course, deeply personal, filmed and curated as it was by Johnson though only explicitly. So in home movie clips of her twin toddlers playing with our camera and scenes over mother suffering from dementia. Her latest could be called the act of killing Dick. Johnson due to the way she employs fantasy sequences to tackle tough truths as Joshua Oppenheimer did with his twenty thirteen doc about mass killings in Indonesia during the mid sixties. Johnson, the daughter and filmmaker is more upfront. This time we only hear her voice over we occasionally get to join her inside the closet over New York. City. Apartment she records it on an iphone and she's almost as much an on camera presence as she is a behind the camera one affectionately sometimes quite emotionally interacting with their beloved former psychiatrist father battling dementia like his departed wife before Him Josh. Rated Camera Person One of your top ten films of two thousand sixteen calling it an intensely moving and provocatively personal consideration of what it. Means to carry a camera especially in a world that is seen great suffering. We've established how Dick Johnson is dead is more expressly personal than camera person, but it also might be a more provocative consideration of what it means to carry a camera in a world in a family that has seen great suffering not that Kirsten Johnson necessarily crosses the ethical lines and putting her aging father. Through the ringer staging, sometimes playful, sometimes gruesome death scenes for her own Cathartic Purposes I. think we can probably forgive the time. He soberly complains that shooting in the cold on a Manhattan street while covered in fake blood is even more painful than when he had a heart attack. But how much is this exhausting process actually helping him to process the inevitable and does that even matter? But now it's upon, US Kristen Johnson says in her opening video the beginning of his disappearance, and we are not accepting it as viewers. We can't really ever know whether making this movie Got Dick or Johnson any closer to acceptance, which you can't evaluate Josh is whether experiencing Kirsten's death affirming stunts, brought you any enlightenment or at least enjoyment well. Yeah I'm glad you asked for a personal response to this documentary atom even though that's the hardest question. You. Could ask maybe the time not to see Dick Johnson is dead. Is a day after you visited your own ninety six year old grandfather whose memory has been failing further last year or two or maybe a little bit more in that. That was my reality. So that's my context in seen this movie and I, think it is Cathartic in ways I enjoyed watching it and certainly there is joy to be had in this movie, but it's also. Deeply traumatic if this is something that's touched your life and. It's a really special work. For for both of those reasons. I. I think that you know to go back let me back up and just kind of surmise because I think it does relate to the craft of the film how it might have worked for Kirsten and for Dick I think this is at once an exercise in really painful introspection where they're directly tackling what they're facing. In a way that many families I don't a Lotta families try to just deal with it and knocked act like it's really happening or not as bad as it is these two are facing it head on right? So it's this work of introspection. But. It's also a work of distraction because as we watch this look, what happens they get so involved practicalities of filming these death scenes and the fantasy sequences in heaven that for the moment they're talking about costume changes, they're talking about how does fake blood work in this scene and that takes them out of the reality you know. So even though it's giving them a reprieve from mortality, even as their creatively immersed in it at the same time and that sort of the miracle. Of this documentary from the outside watching them process it in that way and appreciating how it does seem to help them work their way through this in in a manner that is incredibly brave incredibly honest joyful and is giving them incredibly rich moments together in these last final years, and so this this documentary is just a gift to to both of them. You know you can recognize that on the screen I have to I. Have to believe it was a gift to both of them. And for me I I'm coming around to seeing it as a gift to myself as well. Even though. You know. So my grandfather said ninety six. The last couple of times I've seen him. His said phrases like I don't know where I belong or a phrase. I haven't unhappiness that he can't quite articulate, and this is a guy much like Dick Johnson on the screen who has been so affable all his life, I could totally see my grandfather making a documentary like this a very playful guy. So then I'm watching this and at one point, it's at the stage where a year later we see. After they've agreed to make the documentary and we've noticed there's a distinct dropping vitality, Dick there's a distinct drop in joviality and him and he says this to Kirsten he says, Oh man sweetie your father is Iraq. Yeah. I mean like it's just it's a hard. It's a hard movie. To Watch if you've experienced something like that. But I think it also ultimately adds to the appreciation again to their bravery. And Just the things that they're they're willing to even talk about in candid conversations together. I. Mean What a wonderful relationship these to have and what lake courage it took to to face that. So they can enjoy that relationship and maybe that's the Cathartic point to me is is to inspire me to be more head on and to pursue those conversations even with my own grandfather and. To not brush off when he opens up with a vulnerable statement like that. But to to pursue it further and ask you know why are you feeling that way? What's causing you to feel that way? Even if he might not remember, we had that conversation even if he might get confused with. Another grandchild or or or someone the next time I see him So in that way I I'm finding the film inspiring to. So maybe that's too much of a personal reaction I I I'm just trying to I've been trying to process it since I watched it within my own reality and I think it's it's just it's kind of a miracle of a movie in what it does. So creatively with an experienced, that is you know tragically kind of mundane I mean. So many families are experiencing something like this and Kirsten Johnson and Johnson have been able to make something miraculous out of that. Yeah. Maybe the only silver lining that. I could think of it occurs to me as you recount your personal angle with this film of having three grandparents die before you were even born is that I never had the opportunity to actually have to suffer through. Yeah. Some of these types of life events, these very difficult life events, but that doesn't mean I can't relate still to what I'm seeing on screen in. So many different ways including just thinking of it in terms of that word gift that you said, this movie is a gift to us in a lot of ways I definitely think of it as a gift to Johnson herself and I think that's one largely bestowed on her by her father. If you really read between the lines, I don't think it's ever a matter of him. Really feeling like this endeavor is all worth Orleans a lot of fun but what does it do? It allows him to spend time with her. Yes that's all he wants to do. So that's the gift coming from him, and also it's a gift for Johnson as she does state. She didn't have this opportunity to film her mother, but more things got that. This amazing life and this amazing relationship she had with her as well and yet all she has is the footage she shot that you see in camera person and even seeing that though brought her back to life I think those are the words. Johnson uses so. This project of capturing him still when he's relatively vital and having more to latch onto to kind of bring him back to life. Even before he's gone I completely understand why she's doing that. But I'll also say where it has that personal angle for me and where she is giving a gift to him even beyond the time she's spending with him is how often do you hear people say and I certainly had this feeling when my dad passed away I. Wish I had honoured him like this when he was alive. I said the things I said at the eulogy to him when he was actually here and watching these where she gets to. Actually verbalize and sometimes visualize how she feels about him. That's that's the stuff that someone migos oh. Yeah I missed I missed my opportunity just like you missed it Kirsten Johnson with your mother I missed out on that right so in some ways hopefully, it inspires you to then not miss those opportunities as you as you move forward. Now I will say that my reaction to the film and I agree with you across the board I also think of it as kind of a miracle of a movie. I, was surprised in maybe a little disappointed. that the death scenes themselves didn't tie back more directly to Dick Johnson or Kirsten Johnson in terms of his fears in terms of their kind of mutual and individual concerns. There are some hints of it here and there, but they did feel a little random to me in a way that I didn't expect considering considering the killing by dad over and over again conceit at least the movies packaged and is even presented by her within the movie itself. Well, that's I. think that's part of the distraction element. I was talking about it allows them to make fun of death by having by staging air conditioning unit falling from a building on top of him and killing him. Jump out of my seat complete. Yeah I mean. They're using stuntman as I said, like fake blood they really get into this and and I do think the reason it might be so unrelated to what he's actually facing is because it gives them a chance to sort of, as I was saying address it and not address it, address it from a a certain remove and and there's a dark humor to those scenes to right their comical away and in that sense yes. Some of it more than others I should. Say the one of him falling down the stairs. That's more real to life right? That's something that you can see happening. So that strikes a little more closely to home but the the other one of like a construction worker turning a corner from a building and wacky him in the head with with a beam that's like almost slapstick and it is, and so I think that's where they kind of get to have a sense of that distance a sense of that. Dark humor and there's there's a catharsis to that I think that that does work fairly well for me and it also stands in nights contrast maybe even contrast but BA leads nicely into the fantasy sequences which also have a comical stream to them. Yeah and I I think that they work the fantasy sequences especially in that they do tie back more clearly to father and daughter and watching Dick Joy in those. Such a major part of the joy of watching this movie overall in addition to just some of the pleasure that comes from seeing how these moments are rendered on screen a figure dancing, and hovering in the air suspended as if in super slow mo or sort of just caught for eternity there for us to observe the entire holy holy sequence with Jesus washing his feet is another one that I will vividly recall. Right but yeah, we we have to. Give the context to that too though is that we learn early on that he dick was born with basically deformed toes. He doesn't have full toes. He's all he says he's always been ashamed of it and so when they recreate these fantasy visions of heaven, you see Jesus washing his feet and there's a cut and she explains this to him you know. So he fully understands that there's a cut and his feet are restored and that's just I mean. It's like this thrilling vision of restoration there, and there's a connection to when we see the two figures dancing. Wearing. These on their faces are these poster sized photos of Dick and his wife from their youth and so there obviously representing them and what do you notice Adam the male dancer barefoot and you know it's it's that that's where like. It's just so full hearted this movie as well. That's right. Yeah. That's what I was getting at in terms of those sequences really tying back to those characters in a simple but profound way and I think overall what I'm getting at is that I may be hoped or maybe just. Convince myself coming in that the death scenes and the fantasies might offer some bigger break through some kind of a Pitney or or even conflict for father and daughter to process in some way rather than it feeling like a conceit to provide a framework for the project and it's entirely possible. Josh that if I watched it again, I would see more of that wouldn't feel that way. But that all said I'm I'm really grateful. It did provide the framework for the project I think everything you're saying about it being a distraction in many ways is really valid but whether it's through the stage sequences or it's just the mechanism of. Movie making itself. I think the camera offers an avenue to deal with something that Kirsten Johnson doesn't want to deal with that none of us really want to deal with it is having to come to terms with this and accepted, and the camera can be a shield. The gives you strength or it can embolden due to to say and do things uncomfortable things ask uncomfortable questions that maybe you otherwise wouldn't feel emboldened to do. So without the camera to spark certain exchanges I, don't know that we get moments like the really emotional ones where we hear Kirsten's voice, for example, break behind the camera when she asks her father about. The process of moving or they're discussing and she s a question about how must be like when when mom moved this makes me feel like when we sent mom to the home or in the heartbreaking reactions, he has to the news he's not going to drive again. Yeah. My Gosh you know I'm not. GonNa I couldn't start model car. It's not about that. It's about the fact that you have moved into New York. Yeah I know you can't keep the car straight. That's all but in between now and the couple days. Okay. Sorry. Hurts. Independence isn't it? Yeah. Yeah. And later when he says how much he'll miss her as she's just about to leave to go off on a trip to Israel for a bit I. Think it's in these moments where the real reckoning occurs y'all send film filmmaking facilitates that and all those moments you're mentioning though Adam are are removed from the conceits to conceal the daphne stages and fantasy scenes those are. Those are what you would expect from a documentary like this fond memories and frank conversations that cameras going to capture a documentary cameras going to capture I. think that is where they do really get into the nitty gritty of it and I'm glad those scenes are included to be honest with you, and this isn't simply those other more outlandish sequences but you know if there's any sort of I, don't know grant epiphany or or or even conflict that they come to is especially. Having been a family who's gone through this before with his wife and her mother. They it goes back to that line. She says at the beginning that you quoted. Now it's upon us. She knows they know what they're facing and so she's resigned but she's also resilient at that moment and I think dick takes the same approach because there is no answer to give to something like this There's no medical answer there's no spiritual answer. All all we can do is sit together in it and I think that is what we get to witness in. Dick. Johnson is dead is Kirsten sitting with Dick in the middle of this and because she's an exceedingly talented filmmaker. He's an exceedingly generous father. The result is this amazing documentary So and in that way you know it, it does have a certain catharsis to it even if it doesn't necessarily solve anything as we might desperately wish it could yeah and in terms of what we're talking about the artifice and the the filmmaking mechanism that's provoking this. People have heard me talk and you eventually caught up with this movie and had a similar reaction about the movie or by Karl Theodor Drier and just say because I don't want to spoil it. I. Really Want People to have the same type of experience with this movie and this moment I'm thinking about. I did but there is an orbit esque stunt completely pays off in terms of for me maybe naively Josh dramatic surprise first of all it, it totally worked I was played completely in terms of informing our sense of who Dick Johnson really is and the culmination of that idea that artifice that art can provoke real truth and I guess just in case it's not clear to someone who has seen. This movie what moment I'm referring to it it does all come together in a cut away really a reaction shot to one of Dick Johnson's friends in this moment, and it just shows you that art can provoke real truth and that truth can mean real suffering and it can mean real humor to and it's all encapsulated sequence just like real life. It's just one of those reminders that playing pretend. is almost never just play that that is a great connection to make because I think this documentary has a handful of little sprinkles of transcendental cinema, which is not what I expected at all and I'll mention another one. So as not to give away the moment you're talking about but how about the one where as we've seen a number of instances Dick is in his favorite chair. He's fallen asleep and he's kind of gently snoring, and suddenly this is in Kirsten's apartment. The chair begins to float in the room right and that was like the like. Totally, a pulse reiter transcendental cinema, a little touch, their in the movie and I think we get a few others I think it's also an element of that that final sequence you're talking about, and while we're citing other films and filmmakers, I should mention and listeners will probably remember. But last time I did nominate film called our time machine for a golden brick, a Chinese documentary that. You know it. It chronicles an equally moving artistic project between an aging parents suffering from dementia and an adult child. So I say that just so that if people haven't caught up with it and they find Dick Johnson is dad to be really rewarding definitely make time for our time machine because it's distinct and a lot of ways. But also a project whose whose goal is very similar and is is a fascinating parallel companion piece. I do want to reference an article that I read when I was trying to do a little bit of research about Johnson for the setup vulture recently did a profile of her and it ends with this description by Johnson of kind of the overall project but also. Getting, really detailed and specific about where things stand right now with him and I think you'll understand after you hear me read it why it resonated so much. She says what I'm trying to do as a company, my father to the edge of this cliff right at some unexpected moment, he's going to drop off the cliff and then he's gone when we got him to this home, I, was like, okay new metaphor we've walked along the cliff he fell off the cliff, but he's only fallen five feet down he's hanging by ranch. At the facility she recalls him begging her to take him back. I'm standing at the top of the cliff looking my father five feet down holding onto a branch and I'm saying I can't come get you. You've got to stay there. It's like. Are you kidding? No human should have to do this and yet this is what humans have to do. Right at a certain point you have to stay at the top of the cliff well, I mean I think I think I can see from your reaction how that's resonating with Josh. To write, it speaks to the Johnsons gift as a filmmaker as a storyteller how she thinks in metaphor. But beyond that, right that example also shows how she thinks visually always visually like I understand that feeling she's trying to express even though it's one I can't personally relate to hasn't gone through yet but I understand exactly what she's going through or at least believe I do so clearly and powerfully because of the image that she created for us, they're just in that story it's just so fundamental to who she is obviously as a camera person. Yeah I mean she's an incredible talent and as you said at the very top camera person was just this brilliant. Abstract project, and then she comes around with this, which is you know much more personal and inventive in different ways i. it's it's hard to imagine holding those two films really in your hand at the same time as much as they are related, and so we'll be incredibly excited to see what she's able to come up with next. Yeah and as we've described it, it may be for some viewers a little bit of a painful and harrowing experience. But as we've also touched on in terms of gifts, one of the gifts to us is just dig Johnson's laugh. I, thought. Oh, man. He scarcely opens or closes a sentence without one. Yup. Yeah. He's I mean you need This man for this project to work as much as we've been praising only Kirsten for her creative vision and her capabilities, this would not work if her father was not as open honest and as you said, you know wanting to keep this connection with her as long as he can that that's really the crucial element that the movie needed unfortunately got. Keith during fray. With. From Utah, he'll do anything for me. Can you just put one arm up against the wall like, yeah that's nice. Dick Johnson is dead is available. Now on Netflix's if you see it in agree or disagree with our takes, you can email us feedback at film spotting dot net. So ageing parents have been the subject of some really strong movies find out which one listeners voted their favourite when we reveal the results of the film spotting poll next plus are overlooked tours. Marathon continues with Barbara load-ins Wahdan stay with us. Again. A. Come Josh were excited to have masterclass back on board as a film spotting sponsor, and over the past couple of months we've highlighted so many great courses they offer and the expert instructors they have whether you want to maybe improve your cooking skills may be like you josh one, improve your jump shot or maybe you're an aspiring artist filmmaker and you want to learn from Martin Scorsese or David Lynch or Verner Herzog they're all on masterclass teaching classes but this one is so appropriate to film spotting at least in the next coming weeks Aaron Sorkin also on their teaching screenwriting and thinking about Dick Johnson is dead a little bit of course as a documentary thinking about the trial. Of. The Chicago seven obviously based on real circumstances and people I've been taking this course and there's a great segment where he talks directly about the process of adapting true material into a film. He calls it the more important truth and he says, you know you're going to be lying almost constantly right? No matter how accurate or authentic you WANNA be people don't speak in dialogue. They definitely don't speak in Aaron Sorkin dialogue. Most of the time they don't live or exist within a framework of a series of scenes that form a coherent native and I love his line. He says it's the difference adapting this kind of material between a painting and a photograph and were doing painted. Nails it really well, and he has a couple of fundamental rules. He says, especially, if they're still alive, he's not going to do something that hurt someone. He's not going to alter something and have it do some kind of irreparable damage to that person or their reputation but he also says he's not going to do something that changes the fundamental truth and he tells a great anecdote about the social. Network where right after that, opening scene Zuckerberg comes back to his Harvard dorm room and has a drink or two or three and starts blogging and they found out while they were making the movie or early into it that he actually was drinking a bottle of beer. They found out the exact kind of beer that he was drinking, and of course, fincher was like it's gotta be that beer and Sorkin. Why No? In the script, it's a screwdriver and here the reasons why David Screwdriver is more cinematic inappropriate to the scene without violating any fundamental truths and it's really good and it's hard to argue at. So I really do recommend that class and so many others that are available now over at masterclass, which is an APP that successful on your phone Weber Apple, TV offering classes on a ride variety of topics like the ones we've touched on all taught by world-class Masters at the top of their fields. Each class is broken out into individual video lessons and downloadable materials, all of which you can explore at your own pace so whether you're interested in. TV Writing Game Design Investigative Journalism or French Pastry Fundamentals. There is a masterclass for you and how about this Josh people are satisfied with it. People love masterclass users, give it an average rating of four point seven out of five stars. But if you're not completely satisfied, they offer a thirty day money back guarantee on the annual all access pass so much good stuff at masterclass we highly recommend you check it out get unlimited access to every masterclass and as a film spotting listener, you get fifteen percent off the annual all access pass go to masterclass dot com slash Josh Adam that's masterclass dot com slash Josh Atom for fifteen percent off masterclass. Good. Is He? He's remarkable principled spoiled conceited Brat Volker Man. I assure you buy music is not. That's Tom. Whole says Mozart in one, thousand, nine, hundred, five best picture winner. Directed by Loesch foreman next week we're GONNA go all in on Mozart with a top five Mozart movie moments we had so much fun doing the Moriconi tribute a few weeks ago. Josh, why not stick with the music theme and we will do an eight for eighty four review of Amadeus indeed and I already put the call out on social media just we hopped on here a lot of good options Adam some that I had completely forgot about some that I. Had not heard before. So Yeah, looking forward to compiling my list. Well, I was hoping we wouldn't get any good feedback and just pick all five of mine from this. That's another route you could go. One way that you can support film spotting is to join the nine hundred fifty ish members of the film spotting family over on Patriot Josh. Have we been delivering enough? Well, you are family members lately you know it wasn't till I sat down and kind of. Looked at the calendar because these events are all fun. So it kind of it doesn't feel like work doesn't feel like a chore, but then Right I. did sit down and realize within ten days. Yeah we did. Trivia. Spotting. We had our watch party and we had our bonus review of Paris Texas. So things have been busy for the film spotting family. They have indeed and it was our first ever watch party you me Sam, Van Halgryn, our producer might outer. Sophie joined, and of course, our PA cats Sullivan talks questions from our listeners and we all watched Steven soderbergh's film spotting Pantheon Worthy film out of sight together, and we hadn't done this before. So we were figuring out as we went a little bit and by all accounts it went well I mean first of all, we had fun and we did survey the participants after and the feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. Actually wanted to share this bit from an anonymous listener in. Seattle and have been longtime film spotting listener about ten years. So this was the closest I can probably come to attending a live event i. absolutely loved it. I love movies, but am by no means an expert on them. So it was just fun being in community with other folks that also love to watch movies I. also fan girl the little when Josh Adam or cat responded to one of my chat comments. The event was a moment of joy in A. Very dark time right now. Thank you I. Think maybe my favorite comment or one of my favorites was from the person who said I couldn't actually watch with you guys. I was doing something else maybe making something in the kitchen, but having it onto the background listening to you guys talk about the movie was enough. So yeah seems like it was a success Josh dedication and yeah, you can. If we do this again, you know you can't participate along with us through. The chat feature and zoom. So cat was funneling some of the questions and comments our way and it made it. You know a a wide commentary experience. Yeah and we are confident. We're going to do it again because we're setting it as a goal now for when we hit one thousand, just about fifty patrons away so it could happen relatively soon tell your friends tell your neighbors get us to one thousand over at Patriotair Dot com slash film spotting and we Will do another watch party event. You might even help to determine which movie we watch. You can suggest some choices will narrow down to three, and then the family members do ultimately get to pick. They're the ones who very wisely picked Steven soderbergh's out of sight and we do have another trivia spotting event coming up October sixteen. This is exclusively for our family members. We can only have about sixty people participate and we're calling it trivia spotting the zoom ultimatum, of course. The third entry in what will be much longer hopefully than a trilogy again, Friday October Sixteenth we have special guests who ended up being the captains on each team. So about six or seven, those spotting family members randomly assigned, and then they might get Josh, they might get me they might get. And that's all fine except when we keep upping the ante on the guest pool, the VIP pool then I know we're going to hit a point where they're like. I got Adam stuck without of again like that's coming when you've got Michael Phillips in the mix and some of these other people. But those are the breaks and I'm going to announce it here because it is out there to the film spotting family the public if you will one of our special guests this time how `bout actor. Writer all around Great Comic Mind David Wayne is going to participate in Trivia Spotting Zuma tomato could be your captain. Now I don't know I assume he has extensive movie knowledge but I can guarantee you that team whoever gets David as a captain they're going to have the most fun. So Yeah I may have to angle to get on David's team and we'll just leave some team rudderless but if you're not a family member And that event sounds like a lot of fun. Then joined the family you might be one of those lucky sixty who is able to get a ticket again patriots dot com slash film spotting. We remind you that you can pay by month or annual memberships are now available. You get ten percent discount basically one month free and maybe an extra buck in their josh to buy some gum, we include as part of our Petri. On benefits that every once in a while we're going to give people a shout out here on the show and we have not done that with any great diligence we'd like to make up for that. Now, feature a listener comment a new family member who sent us this very nice note this comes from Keenan Kalat, Dear Adam Josh and Sam. It's taken me a long time to get to this step, but as I was. Listening to the latest episode on landscapes as characters I realized that this show has given me so much and it's beyond time to give back. I've listened to you for years and across three countries I as a university student in South Africa when my Sinophilia started and film spotting gave me a language to discuss an appreciate cinema. Then while I was working in New Zealand in two thousand, eighteen slinging drinks to afford to the UK. And fitting in visits to Auckland's fantastic academy cinema, broadening my horizons even more, and now living in London with more incredible cinemas and streaming platforms I know what to do with. You've been a guiding light, an oral refuge from marathons masters top five to totally outrageous madness lineups. This podcast continues to shine brightly. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you a special. Thank you to Sam and Joe Despite the world's spinning out of control. This. Year, the podcast remains expertly produced. Please rest assured that your hard work is noticed and greatly appreciate it all the best for the future I'm looking forward to every episode to come best wishes from your continent hopping listener such a nice note, and it was generous of him and appropriate that he called out Salmon Joe there specifically obviously for the incredible work they do on the show and he mentions being in London now after. All that continent hopping so many formative movies Josh. I saw when I was a junior in college and spent a semester in London went to a repertory theatre for the first time. I. Don't think I'd ever heard of that before living in Iowa and I saw three Curragh Asaba films in one day it was like Ron and thrown a blood and I don't even remember what the other film was, but just going out and. Hitting the west end plays concerts and seeing movies. There was so much culture there. So I'm definitely jealous of Keenan Yeah Great Film Scene For sure in London absolutely one final mention Patriot dot com slash film spotting massacre theater is the part of the show where we perform a scene from a movie and you get a chance at winning a film spotting t shirt. In case you missed last week's here's a bit of that massacre. Please Birdie. It's happened before you know some of the world's happiest marriages had started under the gun you might say. Nah She's not the girl for me. Yeah she's only perfect. We got a note atom a performance, not a director's note, a higher from Andrew Howell. He's in Lake. Oswego Oregon he also sent in a link to an SNL skit kind of up his note here I feel like this is what inspired your performance Adam dozen impression of Dana carvey doing an impression of blank was that what you were going for dead on dead on the only sense of an impression I have of this person comes from Dana Carvey via SNL in fact, it's entirely possible that I discovered Dana Carvey doing this actors impression before I ever actually saw the actor on screen in a movie. Is firmly firmly implanted in my brain Andrew how nailed it and that may in fact, give you a clue not the Dana carvey didn't do a ton of impressions obviously over his tenure on Saturday night live we will say for the record that no, I wasn't doing an impression of Ross Perot or George H W Bush definitely was an actor, an esteemed actor I didn't probably bring him much dignity though. Did I no, no, but I appreciate it more now that I know that's what you're going for carbon. That's what I was going for make sense. Now, if you know what film, we massacred e mail, the movies title along with your name and location to feedback at films spotting dot not the deadline is Monday October fifth the winner will be selected randomly from all the correct entries and will announce it. Week show, we do always loved to plug our sister podcast the next few great pairing this week you heard us talk about Dick, Johnson is dead. You can now hear them talk about it probably in a smarter fashion than US Josh. They are pairing that movie with Orson Welles. F for fake. So both films very much taking advantage of artifice to. Try to get at truth. I think, maybe that's the most eloquent way I can put it. I'm sure they say it much better over on that show hosted by Tasha Robinson Scott Device Keith Phipps and genevieve Kofsky new episodes of the next picture show post every Tuesday wherever you get your podcast and you can learn more at next picture show, dot. Net. One of the feel good memories of my childhood. Summers nine is. They had that garden. Yeah. Yeah and I would catch dragonflies. And then we just moved to the states. Everything was different everyone was gone. It was just the three of us. Noah's Har. Less hard for us to. Aquafina there with Diana Lynn in that clip from Lulu. Long's the farewell. It was one of the options we gave you a couple of weeks back in the film spotting poll, which asked what is the best film from the last decade about adults and their aging parents. Of course, we were anticipating our conversation about Dick Johnson is dead and we gave you these options beginners the farewell, the Meyrowitz Stories Nebraska Stories we tell Tony. Or if we missed a great choice, you could write in your candidate. Josh how the poll come out while other is in last place with four percent then came with six percent the Meyrowitz stories, the bombeck film starring Dustin Hoffman. Stick artist father and Adam Sandler Ben Stiller and Elizabeth Marvel as his grown kids next up with thirteen percent of the vote was Mike Mills beginners that one stars Christopher plummer alongside you and McGregor Tony Edman directed by Marin Ave film from Germany. That's next with fourteen percent of the vote. Then came stories we tell Sarah Polly's twenty twelve doc receiving sixteen percent of the vote in second place here is Alexander Payne's. Nebraska starring Bruce Dern and will forte as the father son pair on a road trip and first place winning the Pole Adam was the farewell twenty six percent of the vote Devon Shattuck says I want Tony Erdman just an absolutely hilarious but also enormously big-hearted in moving film I like a couple of the other choices but this is the only masterpiece for me. Here's Dylan Dom from Blair Nebraska so many great movies to. Choose from but I have no choice. But to pick Nebraska, I grew up in a small town of eight hundred people where pain actually shot several scenes for the film when Hollywood so often depict small town people as Dumb Hicks Pain painted a portrait of a town filled with vibrant characters along with brilliant depiction of a father and sons relationship. It's one of the best portrayals of small town life ever put on. Screen. Simon. Smith says I knew Meyrowitz wouldn't get the love. It deserves in this whole and that's fine. I know it isn't for everyone but it's a beautiful story about intergenerational arrested development caused by abusive parental neglect and the links grown children go to to fix irreversible emotional damage i. know the sound sad even depressing and it kind of is but when told by one of Bombay's titus of scripts, it is a joy. The intricate running bit the unflinchingly harsh deliveries. The Anthology S Structure All with an overlooked ensemble cast and great Adam Sandler performance. It's rare to find a film that makes you feel. So at home among such an insufferable group of people but Meyrowitz does I could go on but you get it revisit this gem. One more comment here comes for Maddie considering Kirsten Johnson is the inspiration for this poll I find it. Surprising that you overlooked her debut film camera person in which footage of Johnson's own aging mother is juxtaposed against families throughout the world struggling with their own ordeals be sons lost boxing match or the Bosnian genocide camera person explores the relationship between the personal and the political by exploring one cinematographers relationship with those she filmed. Yeah I. Don't think Sam could ever be accused of overlooking camera person he loves that film so much. Maybe just on a technicality as that is such, a small piece of that movie Josh Yeah that's what I'm thinking that the whole film comprised of vignettes and the scenes with cursing Johnson's mother are maybe a handful of those. So I, think that's probably why it didn't make the cut. Well, a couple of weeks from now were planning to get to a review of Aaron, Sorkin, the trial of the Chicago, seven, it's possible. Aaron Sorkin is going to come on film spotting though that has not been finalized the trial of the Chicago seven hits on October sixteenth. In our new poll question is asking you simply what is your favorite courtroom movie? We can't call them courtroom dramas because there's one that probably qualifies more as a comedy, the criteria here or really the criterion is that it has to be a movie about a case. So that means. No to kill a mockingbird others great consternation here on the part of our producer. Sam who made this poll question? Because he's just expecting, we're going to get inundated with people saying, how could you leave out to kill a mockingbird? It is one of the first movies we all think of in our minds whether you fully appreciate it as much as you should or not Josh Larsen. It's a film. A lot of people do think of as a courtroom drama but maybe again here we're kind of going to the technicality rule just doesn't feel as much like a trial movie. As are other options. Well, this way we can just avoid talking about my under appreciation for to kill mockingbird right if we don't put, we could just move. Light past well, we can't, but I was going to say this proving once again that time is a flat circle and has no meaning in my mind I was thinking, yeah we talked about Tequila mockingbird a few years ago here on the show like I was imagining saying that right now to you into our audience. So I finally decided I should look it up and I realized it. Was the second I think sacred cow movie. We ever did after pulp fiction and that was from November twenty twelve. Oh, while eight years old that time has flown by at. That's just how much fun and wisdom we've been dispensing on this show. Yes. That's exactly why don't you Redo the options that we did think qualified as courtroom movies okay. Sidney Lumet's twelve angry men. Oh. Oh boy. There we go another confrontation disagreement. Great. Okay. We'll move on rob. Reiner's a few good men, which of course was written by Aaron Sorkin. Then lumet's the verdict that one starring Paul Newman here's the comedy of the bunch. My cousin vinny can't wait to see how many votes that gets Jonathan. Demme's Philadelphia is another option and then judgment at Nuremberg. Of course, we'll have other if there's a film you think should be included as well, and you want to give that one vote now in early voting not surprisingly twelve angry men is in the Josh though Tim Oliver. Of course wrote I'm surprised other isn't faring better right off the bat I thought an obviousness was to kill a mockingbird so. We'll see how Does eventually fair. Maybe a lot of people will just decide to ignore our criterion and voted in any way like all of the movies in this poll and could see choosing any one of them. I think for me Josh it comes down to the two movies honestly on this list that I think probably did the most at least for me just speaking for me in terms of making me have some sense of what a trial is, what a trial can be the process of dispensing justice in our American legal system honestly the two movies or twelve angry men and my cousin vinny, and there's one movie on this list I've watched way more times than all the other movies combined and that's my. Cousin Vinny and I think it's a really great film and that's my vote. Okay respectable I'm glad to get a vote here early on I. Think I'm GonNa go with you know I've only seen three of these. So I, I really shouldn't be allowed to vote I'm not voting for twelve angry accusing yourself. The case I might have I might have to I. DO think twelve angry men is going to beat the poll into submission just as it beats viewers into submission how dare you can go? With my cousin vinny. So for me, it's a few good men I'm GonNa vote a few good men. Okay. You can vote in this poll tell Josh please in the comments how wrong he is about both twelve angry men and to kill a bird even though it's not an option. Over Phil, spotting, leasing the people this week Adam, that's doing film spotting dot net support for this podcast comes from cdw In del Technologies. At cdw we get the migrating your agency to hyper converged infrastructure is challenging. Calf gotTa do it. I. WanNa do it do it slowdown frowned cdw Jeez experts can help simplify your transition from legacy to hyper converged infrastructure with? Dell EMC. Solutions that offer speed and agility. Have you done it? Is it done yet? Why isn't it done yet? It orchestration by cdw People who get it find out more at CDW G. dot com slash Dell EMC. How many things? Did have anything negative. Commenting. Stupid. I'm stupid. Don't want anything you won't have any. Don't have anything in nothing. Be Dead. Not even shish in the United States. That's a clip from the nineteen seventy film Wanda written directed by end starring, Barbara? Loden Michael Higgins. Also in that, Clip Wanda is the next film not the fourth film, but the fourth installment in our overlooked deters marathon. It is the only feature loden directed. She died of cancer in nineteen eighty at age forty eight she started as an actress mostly on the stage later appearing Ilia. Red River and splendour in the grass. She was a member of Kazan's famed actors studio and later married Iliad Kazan the low budget. Wanda. Which New Yorker critic ruled brody has compared to the work John Cavities is about a woman played by Loden who abandons her impoverished life in Pennsylvania coal country leaving behind a husband in two young children by chance she winds up on the run with a small time thief, the abusive and hard-drinking Mr Dennis as she calls him played by Higgins. Wanda. Had Its debut at the Nineteen Seventy Venice Film Festival where it won the best foreign film prize. So. Adam. Kesse that is certainly came to mind for me watching this, but it's interesting because you know buddies in the sixty s well established in the independent film scene already yet a woman under the influence didn't come until seventy four and this is seventy and so it was interesting to me because I I thought that had to have been an influence. Wanda had to abandon influence on some part on a woman under the influence, and then I'm thinking the other film. This made me think of is Badlands Malik Badlands Right. Yeah Seventy three. So here obviously Wanda itself influenced by Bonnie and Clyde which came out in sixty seven. We'll probably get into how it's an interesting rift for maybe a a reimagining of that in some ways but here it Kinda sits at seventy and I'm realizing this is a movie that likely influenced to monumental works of cinema and Tamai discredit and I think to sinophile files discredit at large. It's it's really been talked about until recent years when it of popped up on my radar. This thing is you know in its own, right? Incredibly fascinating and it has to be really crucially influential instrumental film leading into the seventies when you say, yeah, for sure and this is indeed why we have embarked on and overlooked occurs marathon. It's overlook she is overlooked Barbara, Loden by US and maybe the OT tour framing. Doesn't apply in one sense. She only got to make one film what a voice, what a talent she exhibits here in this movie which she did as we said, right direct and stars in this is completely her movie and in some ways whether not ties back to her actual life or not feels so intimate and personal and you're right I think you got all the main. Touch points there the badlands one in particular. I love seeing Wanda as a counterpoint to sissy space x character in that movie getting caught up when the wrong guy going on this crime spree. But of course, where Sissy SPACEX character has such actual childlike innocence Wanda is childlike in many ways. But whatever the opposite of innocence is world weariness having having seen almost everything and just kind. Of having to take the punches day of what life gives you it is the opposite in a lot of ways and it's a tough movie to connect with. It's it's a bleak movie and Loadin does very little. Initially, I think to make us try to relate to or understand Wanda even when we see her interact with her former husband and her two kids she she shows no. Remorse or sensitivity whatsoever. Right she isn't interested in having any roller kids lives. She says, they'll be better off with him and I think we're kind of left to read between the lines of what that relationship might have truly been like not just the way the husband's representing it and representing him and and really only from her actions throughout the whole film. Do we realize how rooted? Her behavior must be her psychology must be in abuse, but again, Loden doesn't make any of that really explicitly clear though we do see the mistreatment she suffers at the hands of most men she encounters but I agree it's an extraordinary work and I think part of it is how loden combines different elements into something that feels wholly unique. It is on one level this crime movie it's a Quirkier, even more dysfunctional and probably dangerous in some way Bonnie and Clyde like I'm thinking about Mr Dennis and. The way he is so paranoid and how he can, he can fly off the handle. He scares me more than than Warren, beatty or Faye. Dunaway ever sure right in Bonnie and Clyde, and they're on this crime spree and Wanda's part of its surely because of her sense of codependency maybe needing a man on the trees are terribly but also Josh what else does she have to do she goes moment to moment yeah. Man Demand need to need just seeing where it takes her but then you have that. Combined with the grainy sixteen millimeter look the aspect ratio, the square aspect ratio, the hand held camera, the setting it being coal, mining country, blue collar workers, impoverished people, not exactly. Hollywood stuff we don't see movies made about these people unless it's something like a few years. Later, we're going to get Barbara Coppel doing a documentary about Harlan County USA, but it is like a verite documentary to with her curlers in her hair and the custody hearing easy to feel like you've just dropped in at an actual custody hearing you've dropped in on this couple going. Through this scenario and I think as well Yup to talk about load-ins, performance itself and how fits into this scheme as well. But but I'll stop and let you jump in on what you appreciated about it. Yeah. We'll definitely get to the performance. This is where you know for the reasons you mentioned cavities had to be an influence on load and to right she shows after he's doing this work in the sixties she chose for her filmmaking debut to work in the independent film scene. So she she chose this kind of grainy approached the camera work. That you're talking about and yet she manages some real beauty in it to think about this came to mind because we just did our top five landscapes as characters with Gregg recruits last show and you get that shot. Wanda wearing mostly white. It's a long shot from fire away wandering out of this house. She's been staying at I'm assuming it's maybe her sister's yeah that's what I got, but she's not welcome there anymore, and so she wanders out emits this coal mining pit dark gray all around her she's the solitary figure in she's kind of trudging. Through it on her own, it's almost apocalyptic but you know the irony of this is that that setting almost after we get about hour into the movie seem safer than when she goes out into the real world, which are which are these bars, these hotels, these shopping centers, and again, it's because she's just trying to survive and it's a meager existence a moment by moment existence and essentially it's an existence that's left to the mercy of men who have cash and who have cars, and that's the only way she knows how to eat how to get food. To. It's that simple. So so yet to tell this story, you know it is it is interesting that she decided to go gritty Lo fi the independent film scene and it's completely of a piece with that sort of movement. Yeah. For sure and I had a feeling you bring up shot does get your attention. It probably did get our attention even more coming off that top five ensure that that really fun list that we did with Gregg recruits and it either you can decide ruined us or made us better viewers because Sophie, and I watching wanted together both out loud at the same time said landscape is character right? Right. So we were very aware of that, but you're right it's again a moment where it's very verite and that it starts at a distance, it establishes this space and then it it zooms in and it's almost two minutes long and it stays for the most part at a distance. But that shot alone Josh is almost two minutes and it really does suggest in. So perfectly capture her sense of disconnection her early nation, the same way. So many movies that made our top five list about landscapes do and as I was talking about load-ins mixture of this decidedly non Hollywood material with a crime movie. What's more Hollywood than that than than Genera Right You also feel like loading somehow it seemed to me has largely cast non-professional performers. These people all feel for the most part like real people degree at this world right and then you've got loading herself as Wanda if you weren't otherwise familiar with her work and I mean, I guess I could say I'm not either I mean when I started the movie. I'll be honest when I started it. I wasn't sure that that was. Barbara. Loden I didn't remember doing any research on it. I didn't know who the actress was and I didn't recognize her now I have seen splendor in the grass it was ages ago and I don't remember her performance in it but if you then like me work familiar with her work. Then it's so easy to feel like whoever directed this manage to find this woman they found Wanda wandering around small town. Pennsylvania, and decided to try to tell her story, and of course now, with some distance I know that Loadin is the season performer and accomplish actress she taught acting for many years. And she just pulls off the authenticity. Yeah. The sense of discovery in the moment, the unpredictability that I associate with the best non-professional performances where it's just it's just every scene achingly honest without ever asking really for any sympathy whatsoever. Yeah you're so right it's it's the patients to I. Think it's not in the it's not the feel to rush to the point of the scene and I think this comes a little bit from knowing that you're working with an independent cinema to where you're. Not always worried about the pay off I think this is a performance that's defined by its pauses and those moments that loden takes to emphasize often non verbally just what this character is facing what her life is like I think about that that little moment when she wanders into a bar, this is early on and she sitting at a table She's ordered a beer. It's their inner table and she here's the guy over at the bar a customer tell the bartender he's GonNa pay for it. and. What she does she drops her head tilts it away from the man who said that not because she doesn't want it to happen. But because she knows a couple of things, she knows now the obligation she feels and she also knows this is maybe kind of why she came into the bar for this moment. Yeah, and thirdly, no, she doesn't want. It to really happen, and so she's buying herself by just lowering her head and turning away. Slightly she's buying herself maybe four seconds before she has to go on with this ritual what it's kind of become for her, and there's another moment when she's at another bar in another bathroom that she snuck into for a moment of privacy, she's washing her face and. She just stops washing her face and kind of holds her face lean over the sink clinging to these seconds of peace before she has to go outside and face whatever is is going to be in front of her there and I think those those that's the sort of Tissot you're talking about where it didn't really strike me that way watching it but. As. You say that, yes, she is way closer to the likely non-professional actors. We see on the screen they and she is to someone like Michael Higgins who I think is giving a very good performance to, but it feel it. It does feel more like a a screen performance whereas load into me is in the red same register as those other non-professional actors. Has Been. Your husband. I guess he's got a real good finance. Real by. What about the kids? Yeah. I saw that picture in your wallet. There with him. Better off with. Just No. Good. It is a performance, but it's not performance live. That's how I feel watching low nimby higgins is a little bit more but I know this is implicit in what you were saying about that bar scene, not only the obligation she feels but the obligation she feels because of now what that man feels he's entitled to exactly and this is this is where that of Eddie's comparison comes back into play. You're right four years before a woman under the influence and Wanda. Is, one and she is troubled. She's unstable could probably come up with five or six more adjectives to describe her but I think like Mabel. She's a character who we come to understand has been handed rolls by society. This is this is what you do. This is what a woman like you does. You become a wife, you become a mother and these roles didn't fit her and she had no say in it whatsoever and I like the storytelling approach her by load again, she doesn't really spell things out too much. We come to understand this basically from those opening scenes, it informs that understanding because we see. Her wake up on the couch we see that she's probably living with her sister and she's got the crying baby and the husband's going off to work and we see from his reaction how he feels about Wanda staying there and am I recall correctly the sister the wife in this sequence she even says to her husband is he goes out the door angrily Oh, come on back and get some coffee. It's she knows that she she has that job that no matter. The circumstances or how big of a jerk he's being it's her role, right? It's her role to ultimately serve him and give him coffee and even in that custody seen I mentioned this is another one where right the father, the former husband and the judge in the sequence have all the power to decide how she should behave as a woman and a lot of this is prescribed and dictated to her and it's funny Sam mentioned this to me in slack and he. Actually commented along these lines in his review on letterbox he had this framing of the movie or this lens on it that was seeing the whole story in a way as a metaphor for life as an actress, and it's something when he mentioned it to me, I had to admit it's not something that occurred to me at all or I was A to. But I was watching scenes today and there is that sequence where she's in the bathtub with Mr Dennis in the. Other room on the bed and they're setting up the heist scene right and she has turned down this role of playing the part. He wants her to play right numerous times of to this point saying I can't go through with it. I'm not going to do it. I'm not going to put people in danger or whatever we have to assume for ourselves. What it is that might be bothering her about this. She simply doesn't want to do it, but she does acquiesce. or I suppose maybe a better way to say it was she just finally gives up and stops resisting and she's rehearsing her lines and she's taking his direction and it just made me think that when you have no agency which she doesn't, you can then understand the impulse to relinquish it completely right you want me to be this I'll be that it's easier than resisting. It's easier than having to kind of make decisions for yourself and act in suffer the consequences of it. And that's why it's so important that a short time after this, we finally do see her exert her will right with a man that is what really brought me back really to a woman under the influence is yes there's the the overall Kesse veggies esque aesthetic and there's that comparison to Mabel in terms of performance maybe even a little bit too though in general I think is giving what we would say is a bigger performance but what they're rebelling against Yeah and Want is doing it in a much more subtle and passive way but the rebelling against the same thing which is being put into roles that they never asked for aren't really right for. Yeah. Absolutely and this is where her relationship with Mr. Dennis's is really interesting because it's it's sexual, but it's also parental in a strange way and professional in the way you're describing where he's directing her where he's her boss in this heist the very fact that she calls him Mister Dennis. Is, weirdly professional or how about the moment I? Think this is the first dinner together. She's sloppily eating this plate of Spaghetti and he says, wipe your mouth will you like she's this little kid and this? So it's in this relationship she's bound up in all of these roles that society expects of her it's a it's like Mr Dennis has kind of she's this perfect storm of everything. He wants her to be yeah, and maybe she doesn't want to be any of them you know. But who could she be? That's what she never gets a chance to even explore. That's the tragedy of this. Right and that's where we you know we can go to the end and where the movie is where she's you know she's freed of of Mr Dennis to an extent but where does she end up? She's in another bar right she's in she's at this boozy loud table smashed in between these people and for all we know there's another Mr Dennis at that table and I think load-ins camera in that against is pretty astonishing where Kinda squeeze squeezes it's way right into that claustrophobic mix and finds her face and another element physicality to load-ins performance. She struck me as this like fawn you know this gangly fawn. Kind of stumbling about in the forest and here it's like she's trapped. She's just suddenly been hopelessly trapped and it's this is one reason why it's a hard watch think yeah. Well, I even like the precursor to that scene where she's now wandered away from a pretty tough encounter with a man, it's dark and the way the camera follows her hand held as she approaches this bar where she can hear the music coming. She looks completely disheveled in unnerved and the camera is accordingly a little bit Shakey and you see someone emerge at the top of the stairs man who even said something to her a little bit unintelligible like, Hey, are. You Okay and watching it again today Josh it was like I completely would buy that that was just a guy in that room walked out and and yet he saw the camera but he also saw this woman looking as terrified as she looks and felt like he needed ask her if she needed help that's that's kind of the trick right there we're talking about with this movie but that bar sequence at the end in particular I think it does give us our second great final shot of the week I won't spoil the Dick Johnson is dead final shot that we get but that freeze frame Oh. Yeah. On loden is just this Look. Of Utter. Utter exhaustion and and right it also. Captures appropriately how confined and how hopeless she feels right in that moment you feel like she's Never GonNa get out. It's s kind of traps are right there. So can I ask you a question something? I wasn't sure about I didn't have a chance to go back and look at it again even though this is on the criterion. So if you are subscriber to that, it's readily available on the way to the bank for the heist. Does she pass her ex husband and the kids in a car I. Feeling. There's a scene where they're at a stoplight and she looks over the camera looks over and there's a guy in a station wagon and because the husband otherwise only appears in like one or maybe two scenes I did write a perfect fix on his face sounds like you. You didn't immediately recognize that that happened I didn't catch it but it also wouldn't surprise me because again as I was watching some scenes today and I watch that scene in particular of the one of her walking across that desolate coal landscape. It is punctuated at the end by a shot of her husband in his car with his new woman in the two kids and we see them peel off and go by, and so it does kind of set up that we would know what he drives, right? Right? Yeah I think it might have been him might have been I do WANNA point out speaking of criterion channel that if you watched Wanda or watch it and like us were taken with the film and taken with Barbara load-ins performance in particular, there's also available I don't know if you caught this Josh I only ended up watching about ten minutes. Of It, but there's a documentary. Yeah. Also available called Im Wanda directed by Kacha Rag. Anneli it came out in nineteen eighty not long before she passed away or shot obviously right before she passed away and it basically explores through just some footage and interviews how she came to make. Wanda like the filmmakers whole goal was just to understand what would make Barbara Loden shell this story and tell it the way she does so that is there I need to finish it but I did want to point that out that it's also available on the Criterion Channel Yeah I think it's starts to play automatically after the End Credits. So I did catch the first couple of minutes of it and definitely WANNA finish that off myself next up for us in our overlooked oh tours marathon is Lena Mueller's seven beauties. It got four Oscar nominations including one for the director the first Oscar Directing nomination for a woman more information about our marathon is available at film spotting dot net slash marathons, and Josh no freeze frames here that is our show indeed if you want to connect with us on facebook and twitter Adams at film spotting I'm at Larson Film and over at the website films spotting dot net, you can find reviews interviews. In top five's going back to two thousand five, you can also vote in the current films spotting poll were asking what is your favorite courtroom movie toward her show t shirts or other merch visit films spotting dot net slash shop, and you can subscribe to our weekly newsletter at film spotting dot net slash newsletter out in limited release this weekend possessor. This is a new Sifi thriller from Brandon Kronenbourg Yes the son of David Andrea risk borough corporate assassin who uses implant technology to terminate targets, Jennifer Jason Leigh and Christopher Abbott also star I'm intrigued and an eager to catch up with that one josh but haven't. Yet save yourselves is out a young couple, heads out of town to reconnect and disconnect from digital life. How about this premise this high-concept premise, Foam Louis, they missed the news that the planet is under attack and see this is why I make sure my phone is attached to my hand at all times I'm glad you have a reason. We should also mention at them that Sofia. Coppola's on the rocks a bit of a strange release schedule, but it is going to be in some theaters. October two I know here in Chicago it will be at the landmark century centre cinema. This is before its release. On Apple TV plus October twenty three. So if you happen to be one of those theaters, I'll just say for now I can recommend it those your expectations more along the lines of a very merry Christmas then lost in translation if you're thinking of this as some sort of spiritual sequel to lost. So yeah. So that's on the rocks. Yeah. Open very limited release October two in that comes apple TV plus October twenty three. Yeah, and maybe around that time, we will get to a full review of it here on the show the schedule isn't set in stone, but we were thinking we would wait until that. Movie hits digital before discussing it. I. Haven't had a chance to see on the rocks yet also out on digital this weekend the boys in the band it's an adaptation of the landmark nineteen, Sixty, eight play about a group of gay men in new. York. City out this past Wednesday on Netflix Star Zachary Quinto Andrew rannells and Jim Persons, and I'm very curious Josh because I haven't viewed any incarnation of the boys in the band sounds like a great cast I will be watching that on Netflix this weekend we might have a few words on it next week on the show along with our top five Mozart. Movie moments and our discussion of best picture winner from Nineteen eighty-four Amadeus. That's part of our eight from eighty four series films spotting is produced by Golden Joe to so say I'm Van Haugen without Salmon Golden Joe this show wouldn't go our production assistant is Cat Sullivan. Thanks also to candidates, griffiths, and the listeners of the film spotting advisory board and special. Thanks to everyone. At WBZ Chicago more information is available at wbz Dot Org are music this week comes from Tim Heidegger. It's from his new album fear of death more information is at Tim hiker. Dot Com for films spotting I'm Josh Larsen and I met him. Thanks for listening this conversation concerns no purpose anymore.

Kirsten Johnson Adam Josh Josh Adam Dick Joy Kristen Johnson Josh Larsen Barbara Loden Wanda Aaron Sorkin Chicago New York Netflix Josh I Steven soderbergh Nineteen Seventy Venice Film F Barbara Apple Joshua Oppenheimer vinny
Inside Supercars - Show 308 -Part 4 - Ben Croke DJR Team Penske

Inside Supercars

05:40 min | 9 months ago

Inside Supercars - Show 308 -Part 4 - Ben Croke DJR Team Penske

"I am Jones Dick Johnson from team penske and you're on in Subic. From the rice treks across Australia, he is inside supercars. Being Crook Baptist is over the season's over and you guys are the champions has feel. Amazing In a year that's been tough. Everyone in. Australia Wilbert To be able to season completed Big. Thanks to the Melvin God's about to be able to. Compete and come out on top as a testament to the older guys that have back at a workshop and the ones that have been on the rights. To Season Long. Championship and and to have consistent and the best over the course of the east been. Fantastic. have. You enjoyed things back toback races and having these longer trips away or is that just necessity being the pure? We didn't want him so much especially ones like to Thailand Brandon that you could. Get dolled in one weekend and improve on that the weekend after or SMP. For example, we had a was pretty ordinary on one of the causes and they. Went back there the next week in went really well so. The end of the Diet doesn't really matter we rice where they tell us to rice, and if we have to do to derive and and then that's what we do. It's not a new thing for us coins eighteen to after done at anyway. This weekend bath can you summarize how different if felt? We the changes that were in place? As, hot to work because we had a lot less people here. But. I guess the I I doing track woke can suffer that when there was no one across the top of the mountain and stuff like that. It was kind of a weed thing would no atmosphere. But once we're into the weekend and sessions Iran, and during the rice today, you don't notice any of that stuff that. We're focused on what they're doing and trying to win the race. What do you do now with a two week layoff before you can even go home. Well thankfully, my fishing. And equipment is south border moments pretty sure not doing for two weeks and families still, Dan and Goldman to visit. Yeah but. I have a little bit of necessity to hit back. To be as high as soon as we can say, well, we'll get into that boards tomorrow and and that unfortunately just didn't get the chance to catch up with us. And for twenty twenty, one what. Do you. What do you put him play? So I imagine with all the extra week inspector back and everything you're gonNA have to have a longer Reich and to give some people some time. Yeah we've we've always got the two weeks south of the border that we we can Have a break there but. We're GONNA have three or four weeks off over that Christmas period. Anyway the such a big long tough year you get to that point ever on needs some some Tom. Nine different this year will get to mid December. Shut the doors for three to four weeks later on recharge their batteries in. Two Thousand Twenty and much development that you've got planned to late into next to next year ause always plenty of stuff going on back at the workshop Yeah, we. We'll be working hard on next car. That's for sure. Do want to say the rich juice stuff at weekends continue. In in some capacity, but a couple more be knows. Where is the hottest pop? Knocking it back. Todd Danger on the spot but. I think just probably two more extra people would be just handy now you could have. Make sure you have four engineers across the to causing and Gauze doing doing legwork ties and then stuff that taught couple of. An even spread of mechanics would be not. To, catch a couple of weeks ago he said that cutting the daughter engineering increase they work just exponentially. Yeah it depends on how each team did it waste took four engineers. So that took away from now. On the ground workforce if you lock said, might it tough? Things that we did it. We just one TAGO and someone Tom during stations in that side just depends on how you cut it up and how you decide to use as people but you're always going to be short somewhere. Can you believe when you saying what's going on in the world that you've actually got a championship team? If you look well God. I guess we're. Lucky and We've got the champion. Quainton Northern Territory, and all the places we've been we've made. Managed really well. So we've done successfully and it's been pretty good. Well then have a great Christmas and New Year look forward to seeing in two thousand, twenty one now rb we're trying to win this race again. Thank, inside supercars is produced by thunder media shooting next time for more or locking the podcast Iraqians or mobile device search inside supercars. The views expressed on inside sue Qasr including the panelists and guests do not reflect the views of the network thunder media sport radio. Any publication rate broadcast of the show without the express written permission of thunder media is strictly prohibited.

Dick Johnson Tom Australia twenty twenty Subic Todd Danger penske sue Qasr Thailand Iran Gauze Dan Goldman four weeks two weeks two week
Inside Supercars - #273 Thursday Thomas Randle

Inside Supercars

08:30 min | 1 year ago

Inside Supercars - #273 Thursday Thomas Randle

"Naimatullah Jones Dick Johnson from team. Penske and you're on in Subic from the rice treks across Australia. He is in such supercars. Because I treat on board free Latest of the winners in the headlight. Five hundred is Thomas Randall. Winning with a new team in Matthew Watt Motor Sport. Congratulations on yet another win. Rice wing almost caught rat went for two points behind. Well Don Thank Donny. Look it was very very closely. Thin clients are known Sunday. The pulse we gonNA party certainly not gonna eat your wanted angry and wondering farm. The championship played through the next round. Out I feel is a big thing. Kickoff authorizing indeed. I'm it it did seem to me. And maybe I'm being cruel on the others but you to you and brody seem to be just at age in front of the others will will branding the base to the rest And of course there's a lot of newcomers. All rookies in the failed. Did you feel that You embody which is that victims throughout the beginning of the way things were rack. Best teammate when you say he he really impressed me. Follow Foreign ally that he twenty. Yeah I think we'll stop there on the phone and I think we're having front At three o'clock of the of the field of being the rule was seventy five. Were burning issue at turned full. It was it was covering to get awesome. I think if there was not signed yet would've total wherever I think. I'll wait plus Tasmania for show. Now you've had a lot of things on your mind but one of the things that might be coupon was the transition from Falcon so a Nissen. Matthew Watch seems to have had a good handle on these guys he was. He's been on a winning with. I process for wooden others. If made in the ultimate says will down. You would always feel come absolutely. I mean it's right with our work very close with my radio. During all the sessions and discussing ECON- Eagle he can do not suit the thing Rachmat jogging and direct involvement with detainers. It's fantastic and having someone not reason the next rights and one on you can have that sort of drive ins chattered. Well we're we're discussing. Recall reading some seasonal or struggling with a certain colon They can relate to to what I'm feeling and I think that's really important as well. He's said he's got a lot of experience in Super Super Bowl. Certain mind game and they produce some excellent. Super Two thousand. I felt really council in the package on the way things and like I said before they were released from the record is not crush on some guidance water either overweight certainly proving McCain does well. I'm already looking for just a great powder God but we did see with The Super Tuesday's weekend is that you could rice. You could die so you can run close to each other. And that wasn't what the drive was saying in the main game. Thought it would've been my letter from but we haven't had any hijra. She's I think. On Sunday we sort of the parties before your time so I was pretty tempting to to really on the end of the rights are awesome battles with. We've already will on on. Children are so now we have that sort of ranking. I track like I don car. The wives sunk Arnson orthogonal liking. Just GonNa get you mark that attend more rural what what kind of one of the things. That's obviously interesting about The NISSEN's and you know the Kelly's developed over quite some period of time is the way in which they get spayed and having you've you've driven the Falcon and then the Mustang. Can you feel that there is a different way that gets paid compared to your income? Is that with the parents We started saying you want on the New York to watch these job. Weren't listening more predictable and understand more comfortable with our crews mall. Earner I feel confident on the breaking walk-a-thon wheelers and everything could be more keeping ours. Well so whenever somebody thousands of us a server semi because he's shines type things and says it's really being saucer get going on abroad or he was doing so. I'm not even daring inquiry while school or such would full circle. I think whatever he's done probably they would have what were very strong even for night while count at long senior Cinco. Snazzy CONTINUE RICE INSURGENCY. They packed for the Mind Guy Ma. Would you know that the engine program? Oh we'll just go along. I mean obviously in servitude is not a development program is part of it but you feel pretty confident about a year in the sky. Absolutely feel comfort as well get compressed natural from sauna up with a eighteen some point sneaking and he's got strong card every round and it's not what we want to change not drawing the works for each other so we're not drawing just yet but I think that's important to learn and you are wondering nineteen seventy seventy changes. Can you really don't forget how orderly thinking all right? Well thank you so much joining us on this week's outs dice edition of inside. Civic is Thomas Right and enjoy the rest of your time your next. Have Simmons Fine. So he's got a few months maybe not months but wakes and we'll look forward to catching up before they and that's from inside say because it's fantastic say such young drivers showing such 'cause on off the track tomorrow. We'll be back with only inside. Supercars is produced by thunder media shooting next on for more or locking the podcast Rogers or mobile device. Search inside supercars. The views expressed on inside supervise including the panelists and guests. Do not reflect the views of the Network Thunder Media Sport Radio any publication or broadcast of the show without the express written permission of thunder. Media is strictly prohibited.

Falcon don car Dick Johnson Matthew Watt Subic Thomas Randall Penske Australia Thomas Right Matthew Watch ECON- Eagle brody Tasmania McCain Rogers Donny New York
Inside Supercars - Show 309 - DJR Team Penske De-merger

Inside Supercars

11:56 min | 9 months ago

Inside Supercars - Show 309 - DJR Team Penske De-merger

"Hi Jamie. Kelly lay with and you're listening to insights cows. From the rice treks across Australia he is in such supercars. Watering Concert Accounts Chine- We talked Craig Carell Craig. The news is farming broken paint ski is Gold Star Company. Ironic, that over the weekend, the triple think came. Falcon Mustang driver has linked the shows. Up Friday as I leaving the series. Pretty sad for bunch of reasons. Fantastic. Bang here. But. But show you would have read the news is brought. That coming here is nothing it was well documented. The tea was going to be penske's last year. There is a number of different reasons being given for that happening but I thought we should hear from Scott Mclaughlin here why or what he's thoughts are typically on the first weekend of the new INDYCAR Corre- and I'm sure everyone will be fascinated we. Own Words opposite than future and what's gone on Deja and team penske next season. Obviously. It's a sad moment for a lot of us It's been a wild Rod special for team penske. Since since two, thousand, fifteen but. I was very lucky. I joined a fantastic team fantastic people in two thousand seventeen. When they're on the way up and of forever treasure the memories of habit this team, the people most of the people in the team at become some classes nights Forever, grateful for the opportunity to drive for workforce that. Didn't take any crap from anyone they pervade when the getting negativity from the. and. Just continue to strive to be the best which we ended up being especially last year and. Obviously the hopper twenty seven built us but the teams championship in two thousand Seventeen With Hall Lots Twenty Eight Championship Twenty nineteen drivers, Championship Teams Championship, and obviously the Bathurst One, thousand and twenty twenty obviously the drives in the teams championship in. The workforce, I can't thank enough at Johnson Rice and team penske. Fifty aside people where. Some the hardest working people I've ever worked with the my Tom and I thank them so much wouldn't be in a position I am today. which so delays to me what I'm about say. Future. Obviously. Starting this week in Saint Petersburg. An indycar driver full-time from the twenty twenty one season. I'll be driving the team penske. INDYCAR and something that I'm really excited for I wouldn't be here without the people back home. The fans are partners. Support. Everyone's giving me to do this venture. Venture into the world and into a car and it series I don't know It's something that has been difficult. But as made easy when you have good people around June, good people supporting you and can't run enough. But. Look from a for myself from Cali, my family Thank you to. Everyone back home for as feel welcome making my dreams reality and. I'm sure I'M GONNA be back for Ba'athist or oh at someone wants me as a casual certainly would love that to five you my my my team might. it's been. You've been the longest team out of overhead and we've got along long fall and appreciate You know everything that you've brought me professionally and as a friend. And I wish you all the best as well. But yeah, it's it's not a it's. It's a sad time but it's an exciting time for people when. I've everyone comes back big bigger and better and twenty one because I certainly will. No doubt about it that he has been on the trajectory from time about it being a child will drain I'm sure. Dream that he never really fully visit she could happen. By crikey, he shot himself to be a cost. One fascinating thing I picked up craig something. I didn't know until a couple of weeks ago that the man who? was, on, by Roger, Penske is the should go and do some junior formula in. America. Training, wheels learning have whalers something like that man who was asked by Roger Penske? Frankie Kim self a convert from during cows over A. Very wildly during the I he's nineteen but Daria was asked by paint ski. What did he think he goes try and Dario said, yes, it's straight in a class. Racing driver is a class rising rather Gaba with wings. Bonnets it so Fascinating better. It is and what has been interesting is the response back here in Australia. Our good friend Chris Lampton. Hey. Of Very. Interesting couple of comments and I think it's a fair to share them with the because he quite rightly said the enormity of a young guy from down under has impressed enough that they're taking him straight into the US man gain knowingly lights or anything like that a turing drive going directly to the INDYCAR UNHEARD OF. But Brilliant News and of course, Chris is full steam ahead try to champion big wings and slick racing in Australia with this five thousand. So that was a quote from Chris Lamed. Following the news you look. Terrific I one and certainly will be watching avidly say how Scotty goes on I. Think. One of the things that people should well and truly temper. Enthusiasm and the design see Scotty. Well. It's such a giant jump from a series where they had lots of racing the twenty three drivers have been running in the series this year. I've been very different tracks or one of the tracks and I think the Betas guess. Straight. Course which is a combination of straight colson something else. Think. might be one of the shortest time used. To. But. It fascinating to watch and see how that will happen. But. The. Departure of skis the sad thing. he certainly added something to the category remember vividly being back when. We had on the stage or the PM. Press conference. penske we had the ZAC Brown I think maybe maybe Ryan Brady and Syndrich. Fantastic. International people out for motor sport with the highest level coming to be. Series and I think that while Roger has. I don't think that I series any four because the. Vikings, vein here it makes it a five or Ritu one and when you see. When you think tiny about the use of international ownership of Subic as David. Richards with of course. If. Take foot racing all those years ago, and of course when we remember what triple eight was their original ownership had. Was TRIPP lite in the UK. Rolling Dine eventually. Know brought the Australian series all under the single ownership day for wall. So and of course years before that till more control running to invade, we've got to dig Johnson rising while Scotties way. We haven't heard definitely you did hear rumors. You told me that he had been on contract as an insurance drive of twenty twenty one and beyond he he sent me well and truly and. Roll over maybe it's the smaller one in each but the rumors that I knew has put out there in order action maybe. Maybe he's got something power. Server. Versus being a very well connected journalist and he's doing this job twenty to thirty years now. He suggests that Anthony Davis Crawley, who was out of contract with Arabists it hasn't gone anywhere yet. They're being joined by our attorney in Will Davison going back? which is fantastic news We're having a young like Anton I'm sure they'll push each other well, and that would be a tremendous for this series to have that strong strong airing in Dick Johnson. I don't think they'll be losing anything they. You know the news around the series I'm hearing that there's still going to be a twenty four. They're in various rumors floating around. About Full Morris, coming back about blanche leaving Brad Jones but the one thing that is his twenty four. Now. Christian will be so we'll have. To full teams in good at Brad Jones an eight to cocktail plates all maybe it's But we'll wait and see what happens. It'll be interesting to say the developments. Experiments to see how the reforms up. Next year. Imagine that you have some news around some of that. Would you cry? Well, one of the things it's not inconceivable is that there is a few question marks I think Nick Perk mockby drawback that's, looking, at, Bay Jr.. If blanchard was to take his wreck somewhere else that leaves them with three. Of course, there is the eject Smith car that is being around out of bridge is rising and they've done three cows full years. That wouldn't be the end of the world for them. What could be interesting is, could we see? Fabian Coulthard. Turn back up at bj hours a fulltime driver. He's certainly good enough to be fulltime as you mentioned the other thing we haven't mentioned is that the ownership older reports of the ship. Now, a Dick Johnson racing we'll be joined by Ryan, story and Dick Johnson, and so that some of the the room is running around. Beth was that Someone. Like Paul. Morris could become part of Deja and. By stoneleigh press releases that have come out that hasn't happened. WE'LL BE LOOKING FORWARD TO IT In the near future getting cancer. Time with Ron Store maybe a few talking to him tackle come out in the Hov, the ownership and Johnson maybe taking a larger role than the as. Beckley. Become. ICONIC SEAN. Thank you watching resting during talks because. Inside. Supercars is produced by thunder media shooting next time for more or locking the podcast garage or mobile device search inside supercars. The views expressed on inside supercars, including the panelists and guests do not reflect the views of the network. Thunder media. Will. Sport Radio any publication ray broadcast of the show without the express written permission of thunder media is strictly prohibited.

penske Dick Johnson Roger Penske Craig Carell Craig Australia Scotty Deja Brad Jones INDYCAR Ryan Brady Mustang Jamie Gold Star Company Kelly Saint Petersburg Cali twenty twenty Johnson Rice Seventeen With Hall Subic
Inside Supercars - Show 324 - Steven Chopping, John Bowe and DJR Launch Season

Inside Supercars

20:40 min | 5 months ago

Inside Supercars - Show 324 - Steven Chopping, John Bowe and DJR Launch Season

"Today's ninety one wondering with the girls turns into a bottle. But you need you okafor brunch. The next day pick up word fraud. I would drinks. Were you done with a lead couch with expensive tools that the pub. This pickup miss out on the fun. Get a pickup simply book on our app. And we'll pick you up to drive you and your car harm to drivers arrive. One drives home in your car and the other driver follows download pickup at today. That's pk up and wake up. Worry free on camera kelly. I'm layouts with and you're listening to inside civic from the rice treks across astrology at. He is in super. Hello to inside supercars. Today we hear from johm. Bow after his hundredth. We mentoring mazdas. And also stephen chopping. So i'm glad you can join us but this week. It was dick johnson racing who launched this season and with a new livery that looked very much the sign even though dick johnson was speeding l. Degree all you might think it's. It's very very different. The super racing that This is about a fifty years. That i've been in vogel shop for me. It's nothing to be proud of and being out of issue is up to you draw as united scottish With the us to running indie thousand. And when i do an extremely good job once and all fights to us which is real and we'll at he's very. I ever winning the championship of listen to the night and up to the owners is eight disqualify on a young kid be hours on for some time and in my life i think his position. Looks cody walls. In two thousand and seven eight time to rescind for the john s and even the ones for all black You got put the right people. And i know for sure that we have all people to get. The daily drivers anton days per squarley has plenty of pressure on him going into the year. Picking up a drive in one of the championship contenders. He spoke about that at the launch. Yeah that was. That was a good little. Yes awesome to be three days in category myself. Join such coney team with such history and recent success. Anyone any draw that line must be in the fossil costs. May we'll lucky enough to be there. Lucky charms wants to join shelby. Basically take the next step. Mockery looking forward to will davison. He's back at dick johnson racing as you heard from dick amendment ago. He is a winner. they're already in a previous life delays to be back. Don't really have the woods or just couldn't be happier after bit of a strategy and for all of us to be on the on a few months yet who was a bit of a growing many. Tell them to reflect on the career sending them yet so To be able to get these opportunities with with this is just the tape. It's just a huge opportunity but also dig and chile just very powerful brands. Hugely respectful of thing happened so cool. I'm cool. it would be like to bucaneers pretty crazy jenny. Since you're really special. It's on now to the ba'athist to fifty but first testing for the queensland teams queensland rice by next week along with wynton for all the victorian based teams ahead of stephen chopping. We concentrate on johm. Bell who this week has said that he has been positive for prostate cancer and his posts on social media have encouraged all men over forty to get the yearly checkup prostate. Cancer bow is a fodder and He said he feels fine. And has no signs but it's something that he's going to be doing something about so he's asked all men not to be complacent at all only a few weeks ago. Tiny whitlow caught up with john after he won his one hundredth thrice in tm. I'm here with the most recent and the only member of the hundred club in john. Now john just you. Well i guess i don't know whether it's amazing ladies. It's a nice nice number. I guess you know youtube brabourne. I you toy story. Become a bit of a journalist. Three cameras category saved me. In many ways you know given a retirement In supercars didn't know what to do. And i go to be lost in the brian and proactive frist. And you know so the people that helped me into deterrent. Got master's made a lot of difference to my life. So you know. I love driving the car. That's fisting noticed and then have some wins championships and things. It's really quite satisfying. I mean when you've been motorcycle this. She fifty said the happy to be still doing it about a win. We gotta take your head off a sync because to national anthem on. It's shit i came. I hear ninety seventy two tiny schuch. Which times i as. Lord c. t. y. Ninety two to ninety two the first monocoque says the lastly night lawler front radiator jobs since clark brand recently told me that how he was i remember exactly that they need to go back to frank. Compete with the t. Three hundred sheet cast three seconds. Really boy sauce. Thought it went on jumps expelled john. That's wonderful. I look forward to really next weekend. Ask for some fun this of tc goes yep and we're doing it because We won't support. I g and you know it's my home state so it's time for an extra few days it's not letting anybody we we're gonna do some sort of invitational things down really now. I haven't been to basketball for a long time. And i haven't been there since avery. Surface formula vega. I issues and tuesday open from food formula three formula to our the fox s in there and ninety the process an era known as well often in my right eye one more versus rice. See it's it's simmons. Fines forty nine year to his ex. I didn't used to admit stuff like that. But some steps persons men ramon milanez up to the admirable things to be still doing. The biggest part about it is john. I mean i can see the smile on your face. Alice's car the but the biggest thing you batteries you still enjoy it. We still contribute to enormous number of people. Great distraction from you have a lovely with the advent of social media. Have a lovely following for of noise. People you know i never get any bad stuff i got any flack interested. So hey good said. I mean who wouldn't lock that sort of thing so we look forward to vascular chatting with his that'd be great On count to get gotta change a different show gave awesome actually just got to give. Its filing did with sheets me off gary ready for you sure you thank you thank you thank you and just a reminder if you are over forty which knowing the daughter only show a lot of you are it is a good time to speak to your doctor and get the check for prostate cancer. Here will be. I breaks meeting of the twenty twenty one season. i'm fortunate to rejoin bar steve chopping. Who's known around the paddock for many many years and bat. Tasmania won't particular even longer and tasmanian legal aid even longer again so well. I think my mother's sport predated legal thing because my first rice braiding was at baskerville at the first rice meeting. My oh man raced and was an official and brian. Changing my first rice meeting in my capacity as an official was when it was twelve at bosque as a tom. cape us. That's now. I've a sixty years ago i pay will become sixty one years. Yes date so so. I wasn't quite that long. Thank you will be legal. Set balances operating mostly added that the appropriate but Testimony testimonies fairly small so regularly appeared office coast and we also number country courts and not for instance. My favorite court in tasmania was the swansea magistrates court. Because it some in an old watch stone building on the Started started from the beach and it really was an absolutely picturesque city and lost a case in swansea costs have fond memories of the east coast and these civil criminal lunch. Speak criminal stuff. But oh cindy civil By principally it was a criminal practice. That i did not for reasons. You better be happy. Just talk about everything in detroit. Okay now your new role in motor sport in. Tasmania on national and international Tools but you have a new role will actually international role as the head coach for the students must put strike out of threes ago started the system of head coaches for rice directors technical delegates and stewards Similar responsibilities in the area of the championship students identification of new talent progressing development program that we have to bring young talented students and replaced. The the old guard is warehouse and ensure that we've got a good store of competent terms to its to continue the work that we've done for a long time in case of stewards incited experiences. It's a combination of both legal and also ex racing guards in infant tech your particular case you both but the majority on a person that appeals to some They'd be nice if it were more voters as to Visit tendency to some driving standards offices or officials I've seen as we have the most advisers rather than stewart's in formula one the the drive a steward students. A member of the panel of stewart's with full voting rights in all matters Other categories have a Driving standards advisor who advises students Australia we have dsl or who advises the students But he's out of the students panel. Okay now amy strong your ward. You don't have to make me or helping. Guide them in trying to identify who might be potential the costs While job to It appeals to particular sort of person. You need some experience to do it. And the difficulty that we find is that Many talented people so tied up with their employment that in order to devote the time to three day rice meetings or the traveling team vaults. That's a restricting factor But we have to do is Balance what's available and we've got some really talented people coming on at for instance the development program there. I think now. I students off the current championships to its three of those have come through the development program and three others have been identified out of the time as being appropriate food to officiate at a high level. It sounds like it's strider. You guys from the came to unite foul proactive white. Looking at the we do pretty really no stride. I think well if i if i save blocked on a program of Trading for international championships. We had that sort of training beforehand. We are j. defied playful and we rival to move talented students along rather than simply Have the same old playbook doing this. I'm all things for hearing here out. window to open up opportunities and make the best of the opportunities that exist now. I know you're involved in formula one. And how their albert pakistan's two thousand and five internationally in formula one since two thousand twelve to to three g. p. three as well as in light us As chairman of w i will andro touring car championship. I think i've been pretty lucky right on. Thank you very much. Excuse me. I will look along. This is craig list regularly do not believe this good luck. No good management. The country always likely to be in the right place at the right to on behalf spot over choosing as well but I really gained a great deal of enjoyment from sport. Us and and i'm still having fun in date. Tell me Time arnie sco Yesterday in the time year involved in tearing casts you last week it was more last. Wtc are event was Malaysia in december. Two thousand nine hundred. Okay I was to be stewart. The chimney zone. The number about half of the rounds last year. They don't change with covid It'll change because they changed the calender to the second half of the year and then of course travel restrictions. Restraint that If i lift has mania trouble getting back if i was strider trouble getting back and I sat out prices. What should we the interest. What happened overseas giving you been an international As much as you have over twenty year span. Can you see us to one reason. The strain characteristic wide these country and new zealand from my mind. I knew so. I have done so well in code. I mean these much class lady. I talked to play poland exchange information we've picked from europe and Australians are independent playful but rusev responsible We've got the advantage of spice and we don't leave on top of each other. But i think also of that term we ride with ricky risks and make responsibly. After three quarters of their animals will kill you so we have to be responsible. We live we stipulate saudi front gate. Maybe y- viruses you just like crocodiles and snakes. And they just present another major that we need to make and and cope with. I mean it's wonderful. The tyranny of distance as weld said it. has worked at this time you know. We can't have droppings if you try to make two ends. Npr selection tasmania goss. Fairly will So we've i think australia worked very hard to do it. We've had a lot of restrictions We've been lucky in that Preps kind of at a good time. But it's certainly has had a huge impact on mother sport worldwide to see the people who have succumb to it. I just amazing you will know. It's not so much as to how you fix it by a problem or situation but how you react to it and how you act from. It is a major comparison. I haven't been outta. Tasmania since february. Last year i think thinking so long as vividly need tasmania continuously inspecting and sixty nine With rice pleadings and other than that out so That would be hell. Thanks steve bye did and i was at the airport. I think The kind you. Its way to the airport more easily than anywhere else in tasmania. But it's it's been no spring security tests mania watch things develop from. I have this competition as we see the year that i'm very glad i was to get you. Spend the top and particularly to be able to get both simmons at basket and the way carey. Gerry rogers perry must be congratulated for four four eight putting the two meetings together And the feeling around the paddock. He's just britain with this range of cars with a t t ause the four thousand The trans ams and the turn cameras as well as the local council the feeling in the panic just uplifting and there's just an absolute enjoyment and you'll be possible next weekend i'll be i'll activities studio buster. Next weekend saturday. I'll be more official capacity but Still there to help it happen help. It happens safely. And i believe everybody to get the sort of enjoy that out of this sport or thank you very much for joining us. State chopping tasmanian legion of legal business and memorizing. Federal gets everywhere. Thanks to tiny whitlock catching up. The we've john bell and also catching up with steve chopping. Always great to have steve on the show Next time round. We'll hear from burial of marcus. Ambrose and owen kelly. It's a real tasmanian flavor. On inside. Sue because i hope you'll join us thing inside. Supercars is produced by thunder media shooting next on for more locking the podcast on your mobile device. Search inside super cows. The views expressed on inside supercars including the panelist and guest. Do not reflect. The views of the thunder media will sport radio any publication or broadcast of the show without the express written permission of thunder. Media is strictly prohibited.

dick johnson john squarley Tiny whitlow clark brand ramon milanez stephen okafor prostate cancer Tasmania swansea magistrates court wynton davison brian panel of stewart shelby kelly tasmania jenny ba
Inside Supercars - #266 - Fathers Series - Glen Holdsworth

Inside Supercars

17:28 min | 1 year ago

Inside Supercars - #266 - Fathers Series - Glen Holdsworth

"The matter of pulling together a lot to hold joint and putting what I can be a brilliant. We'll be honest with herself next week as usual and say okay this stonking result. But what could we have done. Better Passion for rising again looking like my job back to just doing it because I love rice. It kind of eighty really exchange. Welcome to incisive Kaz Shine Dan Ginsberg ripple pricing thing. Here hello and welcome to inside supercars. We continue our summer series with five of Serb Augusta's this week with Glenn Halls with who is just seen his son moved from Gary Roaches Motorsport Sports Stern brothers which moved into Arabs since then he's established himself with Charlie Schmor- called before joining teakwood. You could racing in two thousand nine hundred and it's been quite a journey for them as you'll eat tonight. H Wait joined inside Motorsport team as I look at all the news from across the street and around the World Sulman Sean. Thanks thanks sport with Interviews News and opinion go put money back into the sport at the lower levels to develop the kids. Bring Them Up. You can't rely on good luck. Fidel recount is all manned without a few nights of tips and money in and sending my direction needs to be lettuce for broadcast ask community radio and online at sport radio DOT COM dot. I use the views expressed on inside supercars including the panelists and guests do not reflect the views of the the network thunder media or sport radio. Any publication will rebroadcast. The show without the expressed written permission of funding media is strictly prohibited. Dick Dick Johnson from team penske. And you're on insulted working inside. Say The calendar where he at Winson pretty cold and damp and Glenn homes with some ease ago that maybe Victoria was not his rating ice. So you'll know Queensland based for many years one of the best thing I ever did tiny with leave this place dis whether it was actually like full seasons today anyway so glean in Monterey with name of being together for some years so tell me your history in motor racing let somewhat surprising you put it there I actually because I it kind of the more background has got no attachment whatsoever the best way if it did was put water wheels Zephyr that There's a bit of a story as to what we got no matter what. The story is basically three my work on Philly knowledgeable. If you like on a ride exit institute sticks in Milwaukee and then Lee was sixty seven years old the seven and a half. They started taking my sales into I wanted to get a peewee biker. Mida bike on you will list on right side with box actually sent to on on the day if you promise never automotive Bryant and ball you're always good to my word because of course I said yes. The Knicks said I the Guy Cotton we went out two weeks. Show Rice track at the guy cutting out there and join the club and that's where it'll Scott her nibble back back but there was a time back in coming early this century. Then there were three Holdsworth's Day in advance. You look ahead ahead of yourself at the moment daddy. You're looking at a whole to wasn't the rookie of the year until night. Oh man that's still haven't got like hill but still rising commodore cap down it was a great trading rallies it. There's a Lotta young drivers in some not so young. Who came from this series? I was Rimma Jon. Folkman telling me John and I said this place horatio. Police scoured the delivery of the Victoria Police car invasive which is extremely Brooke. HSA and always Joan telling me though that the worse this category you can go and rice before jumping into what is now a supercar as worse when you do come Cup because he looked bad habits. Habits will prevail. I think providing. You didn't remind in the for too long. I think he probably had a point. Because we had that experience where Leeann to using using Commodore Cup before going into the Konica series as it was in cold in the second tier of sued the car whereas Brett of course spent some probably seventy seven years while sprint into Subic irony. The he did reasonably well he certainly had the bad habits. That Lee haven't had an a quad. So so I think probably Johnny full. It was probably on the bowl with that comment. And all right so okay. So you've got Tucson's champing at the bit say that we need to go to this one. This one was yes. I'm but you must have got into some such a lot now. I didn't get into a thug. Up More camps. Licensed tiny windows. Fifty eight goes that was already lost in fact if he's ten years ago the stadium story there are fifty. I got my camps licensing. It wasn't until I actually actually finished. Because as you're aware a category manager in Colorado for some reason it wasn't until I actually nearly finished that whole era that I thought Lee was off your hands and no costing the money he had been in the past so I thought maybe I should have a Gallup these myself. The weather a lot big name I can actually put into practice. Okay so Both out in the carts Lima progresses affair. Right then We'll we'll have budgetary quicken cats YEP mm-hmm and waiting do state series and national series. Like a lot of people do and bottom line is. We just couldn't afford it and of course is running. Two cats switched double A. Costumers Nice fatal But both of them very quick and Lee particularly lighter on we put him in I'm getting of the Catholic had been recently was at a recent series cotton nervous. I've quicken that but And that was just before. He came into Commodore Cup when he came into commodore copy was He's fairly picking the Commodore Cup. Series Stride Wise. Well he was just answered the top three in in two years and I think he might have finished fifth in the championship in the second year. But he was certainly You know a sixteen seventeen year old. He certainly obviously Talent together elsewhere sway dot decided. It didn't just didn't have that. Signed driver name beaching of Tokay. All right now. There are some of just mentioned some names. I mean Jeff Camry tiny bites Marcus candidate people from Coming Cup happens. There are others. You know rising still around full of course Jeffs very successful okay all in an Audi and the the JT series. I think and just won the championship last year. And just had a win last week and So he's very successful I'm Mark Kennedy teaches. been running in the turn. Kim turney bites in portion. Also enjoy to share. This is a lot of people still doing a lot in writing. They're the ones that immediately. Come on me and of course there's me there's me these because I I didn't carried extensive reports on Komo usually make sure I got the results of the rice overweight in one of the things that because the people who work in the top teams that go save come from somewhere yes and that can be spending on a commodore food or somebody else. They want to actually know what's going on the living on enjoyed. That was wise enough to realize that you're going to carry that. He's so we'll just talk about the the oldest of your son's some non forgotten worth the bright who works in the oil business he does. He Manages Business Dow and and that's where he lay we're a little different than their air. NBC had that To to you know down to distract and he saw a rising more as a hobby than a loss a lost stolen aloft choice so yes. He's very successfully managing. That business is still working. The business missile. You've had a number of different businesses. I have been sir similar in essence the we have a business With cowpox equipment. We import equipment which is packing leaders. Barry a guide and technologies. That you don't see either out in the back office. Attached to those things Also consulting businesses to safely traffic engineering during the development sector We don't work for the public sector That he'd been the development to die to die experiencing development it and its bricks sexually working in that sector. So you get into a cow patented this g like a lot of things you told told me your story before you started this recording and I think you'd probably I would you happen to To to happen into the sakes and the Civil Engineering University to countywide sport as a cold. That's a coincidence or lock or nothing like that. That's that's a that's a sheep and you go do something new I mean I like for Melvin to see snuck our friends at work and got myself a job for a weekend cleaning wheels. That was was all lower planning involved in that quite seeing a little plastic attached to it. Then when we're for Country Rights Board of course which is attached attached to the traffic engineering sector and then to Scott Interested in it and started my own business so it goes twenty nine years old at a S in Richmond Richmond and had to get an office because br started to answer the phone when he was when he was twelve to That'll work thank God business. 'cause wouldn't Ford Motorsport northside that quote seriously. It's very expensive sport as we all the G. never looked back. Go Go recommend it to anybody. As a as a family activity an activity that any bonds family one that keeps you children away from drugs rugs and does other issues we sunny parents have to deal with and of course now at least a couple of he's also married with kids bricks got Two children yes boys and Lee has a boy and a go and I was actually looking after them. This weekend. WAKENED wellstone here the the rising inlays rising and his wife. Is He responded okay. There's no Fox who early uh-huh many of them talking about what they gonNA do motoracing yet. You know what the the the way things are looking guy on that track carriage courage it big issue there I can tell you last night looking at Have a replay of the Earth saupiquet around with the young grandson Lee's son who is I think just turned to write and he actually used. The draw is cars are going on their side with breads boys as well. They're they're willing to truly down that track. I think having rice in a series that Lively won't take totally dominated by the generals equipment. Your Family Keller would be naturally Raid Than what is that Seeing now Sulina the forties not very much site in just had the remote would drive. Altogether doors had to throw all the red jacket. Oh very much been holding passed a and every car I've earned as a whole I think that should indulge also self and bought a corvette so it's still going down that law and even in the business we bought holdings all the time Cy Year beautiful departure. Yeah no one for the Mustang and doors actually been digging in the ribs. The boy must take quite that happening. I see we've had a riding lease. He's Rhody now. He doesn't take his father in that cassidy shaky Mark Data Rodman die. But I haven't been. Yeah well you've certainly Coming to an interesting time and lays it certainly before he'd gone to Dr Chali things were slowing down. I mean obviously. There's now a lot of things with a new car and you tape. Yes well I think like like You can track most of these These drivers I mean you always have to at the end of the year. Certainly at end of a contract period mega decision. That's it's a very very much well to the media position for the next two or three years and A friend Joe here and I would. We're just talking earlier on how informal one that occurs in people can get taught you know into Particular Mike. It's not going anywhere for some period of time. And how long do they actually cope with that. I moved on well. The scientists guys with Lee unfortunately Gary Gary Rogers things. We're looking terrific. And he didn't that she's no might've moved to to to Steinbrenner's which it was fantastic move at the time but little was lead to node horizon Irois sites who are going to come in and of course that he's whole career intern from one which he was drawing to win and rice. It's one way or he's trying to develop a cop and that is headed varnishing itself because tightening very knowledgeable of add rice cows. Instead I always think Dave Stewart's pretty good and I would think that going through that process even though alternately while I wanna rice and it's reasonable times and have had the ultimate success sort of thing to go through developing stories about uh-huh backing I'm Jay in the factory and you know you might have much crowder Ford engine now. You couldn't do that. That would be fascinating back story return to the and I think that experience whilst supplies even at this point in time it certainly in the reason passes deletes it felt like Not a bad experience but perhaps one that you prefer not to have had I think ultimately will turn out that it will hold him in good stay. He won a guy on multiple because he's seen what it takes to build a team. You're saying what it takes to develop a car. She saying why teams and personality personality made to work to build success. Things that happened there unfortunately of course was soon as he left the halls the successful straight right away and then it's a similar story even with jolly and Come come away from it. It was a lot of developing elephant to go on as I had to single. 'cause I didn't have any other data for the reality is the team that that not drawn reporters no Patine leads Roy for different AAA support In data coming into it so Again things have happened when once he's left which is a bit disappointing to him but Anyway he'll get on with it but I can tell you these never been so happy is at the moment he's He's he's very comfortable and I think he's well regarded entertainment. He holds all of the time in high regard as well it. He's going to smile on his face and Vita springy step. At the moment he just needs to learn how to qualify the car of He'd better. I think I see that you wearing a blue jumping out so forward to you. Where did he? He's rising well. He's rising five-speed Ashby qualifying Whether that Hema whether it's the Guy Dot Ninety nights to get off the front further coal firing and then we certainly hope over the next extort six months from so we've got some time to sit back and watch that he certainly showed encouraging signs of it. Thanks much glen in Holdsworth for joining us on inside. Civic has extended make next week we conclude our series on father's with Fasel the oracle accompanying champion champion. Wind McLaughlin I hope you'll join us then inside. Supercars is produced by thunder media tune in next week for more at sport. Radio DOT COM dot E._D._U.. Locking the podcast on your aunt Joan's or mobile device. Search inside supercars.

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Inside Supercars - Show 313 - Will Davison

Inside Supercars

27:50 min | 8 months ago

Inside Supercars - Show 313 - Will Davison

"I m jones. Dick johnson from team penske. And you're on in subic from the rice treks across australia. He is inside supercars. Walk because we've got a trade. Kara blow wishes at man. Because we've got one of these stars who is returning to full time duty. Twenty twenty one will davison welcoming scientific How you guys doing thanks. Thanks for having me on the chart. Look fantastic to have you here. It's craig valentine's we're talking Look we'll take just get this to it now. Is you Just are away. He go you got into your first drive of a dj team. Penske won't teach. I out goes pain. He builds Mustang and you've obviously got will to must stay last year but This is a great rice. Why are you having a a drive of the car on the news. Tuft awesome stuff. Wasn't thanks tiny. Thanks craig. It's the debate. A acute relates to las Lost mom i suppose to to get my pitch to do it and then back on the field but to be back back if they gave my pain but tell the two joined the team that just won the lottery. Championships is is pretty huge. It's an undecided and to be honest so Yeah just massively starting to me a few months on the sidelines Yeah nasty back in the swing of things and You know back in the factory regularly and you know. I'm ready to go now. Everyone's ready for a bit of a break but chomping in the big guy right in tron maximize unity and The teams in my being calm bang so welcoming and You know incredibly professional bunch You know everything. You could really dream of No surprise it had to seek had You know it's just a dry environment Paypal there and super professional and Yeah for me. It was not to of the car You know all the see. The first day was all about supercars and trawling and utah which You know. I think You know i think it was all positive Trying to get a tie that has good grip sequester wall but then when it hit the clifford hit that todd. So you know i think. That's that's what they're trying to Introduced to create that extra time management and Extra variation in speed When certain cars hit the cliff and and then we we get into time so Yeah i really enjoyed the car on the old time. Do engineering differently. although it's a mustang mustang yes certainly You know it's nice sacred that all the teams just do all those little things. Different and You know set up different philosophies different noise fund it absolutely intriguing You know to see how age group does it and Yeah i'm always trying to learn and another see adapt and try and get myself ready so i can come out the guy farming and You know maximize that car. Because it's clearly dang in the bill seen she lost got into deja ford Of course he won to bathurst. You wanna a bunch of rices and you've proven yourself to be a regular winner in this championship. It must be Rather lost actually got back. It's almost like going back to. Your first is at school in the not so much and just must make the whole person. There's so much nicer because of that. Yeah it's really weird very walking around the place You know for me Yeah it's it's it's been a whirlwind inch had some nine years and experiences and some you know some lessons as well and But that's all part of the sport and they just such a legendary team of so many decades Also bank curious time out you know the hugely hugely successful pain with a massive calling Winter some rocky bounced back. You know To its former glory self and You know it's a back in the science factory we still some familiar faces He's really special. And you know. I left with with you. Know a lot of great relationships intact Nothing but fond memories. My have a victory in the sport in You know sport doesn't give fairy tiles very often. But you know. I'll go issue with bay to end up at that time because i you know i always think backside for me in my memory. They so i'm still feel like a kid. You know to be honest you know skull that same level of excitement now does walking into the category of that team is a tom driver. I mean particularly after the year. I've had the opportunity that gotta hit me You know. I'm still bouncing around okay Lucky young fellow. So i'm not very very special And yet what more can i say you know. It's an honor to be back there and and You know certainly be giving it all gotten very very gripe fulfill yourself paternity. I certainly had talked to ponder on the sidelines this year and You know it's sport. I love so much. And i didn't feel ready to try the hat in the ring yet. So i'm just really grateful. And i'm going to grab stuff. Achievable by hand are amenable at eastern creek waiting. You took that we you jumped out of the car and speaking to you right at the kyle to and you were in a in such a funny position. Dick was about to go to court to try and save the business and here. You are in east cow. Winning races on a budget that was less than ustry shoestring more to to motor sport than than meets the eye and That's if the guy marina was a was a very strange time and people often understand You know the rate in bond some of the You know Changing in tames if you like and That that was a strange one. Because i just getting back on their feet at anything a couple of years for deakin the chaim and But we as a group you know. We'd really dug deep and come on board. And i dream burgess in a garage structure and we'd form some partnerships and we were starting to get speed added a cars and i remember that same amaze me able to do with the budget we had and And yeah we were just getting on track and the future wall looking bright but there was still a lot of question mark and You know for me that's daij. It was You know you know there was so much potential in that time moving forward but there was still obviously a lot of uncertainty. And then the young philip. It'd be offered mocks. Guide seat the whole thing. You know it was It was it was very very difficult to that monument to To turn away so You know i understood entirely and you know we we'll we'll departed on great terms and I've always wanted you know. What if if i died there and i had brand new cars from triple eight and and a really good couple years the giants coat and he won a championship. And you know and seeking come. You know that could may but on the same token Have the opportunity to draw the whole writing team and back this their lead me to full performance rising ehre everything happens for a rate and the journey of my eating some good some bad but you learn a lot of why and You know it's gone full circle for me and he out You know and It certainly on made is a. There's a lot of pressure but their identities even the sport and You know. I'm not scared of anything you know you got a lot of pressure on myself and Count why to put my best foot forward and and work with an amazing group of people in that team and You know say. Say if i can get that long awaited championship you know. I've come cars and ninety seven had written me off now but You know it's it's hard to get into circumstance. The situation to win a championship and You know no one can do it without a greg team behind them. And that's nice sacred in sport and You know. I think i was back on track for that this year. Twenty three reading tcf foot. We're in a good position and You know just to get that chance again. Coming up you know started grateful to be up the front this year early in the And when that went to. I really didn't know whether i get the chance again. Honestly pretty hard to get back into quick car. I was pretty shadowed. But as you know as you we are and You know bring it on. Bring it on. I go just count. How many people were we've dick at the time you rice from previously and it's still a now that exact number of is definitely fogle seeks Definitely follow seeks. Guys there and But you know even you know. A lot of deja originals. You know you've probably dawn when You know roy lotta guys that you know they from dot with him forty years ago that you know they retired now but they still in their awake two days a week and it's really cool to say on even stevie giant you know tinkering around the x. day or you know a lot of You know rowing story. Passion cavs Giant kaz and you know there's there's a real healthy heart and soul of deja that's there now and Yeah it's You know some golfing Certainly from martin s still day and You know some guys actually work with arabists as well blame it on all You know moved across there and to seek staying so You'll have a great relationship with with a lot of the current Crew at job. Now the one who i can think of that Make your cows look so good. That would be your old car. And you knew a casey. Of course cave chechen into a back bay. Yeah you'll have. I was gonna mention keiser before because Yeah when i popped up at the workshop or few weeks ago from an official announcement first day back at the factory You know pop at the back of the cow pock and It was actually a really strange range of emotions. Bumi arriving there and You know schiller at the back Working on some Some bodywork something. With with casey we were just on out there and then he came up and it was actually very fitting. That one of the original fights is You know such a big puddle. That team was was there to welcome me. Back and Yeah it sort of my might. United pete more special. When i walked into the first one actually chatting to casey. Yeah very cool and Yeah it feels. why time. And it feels like a winning team The allusions Is to the shoes. On you. know. I don't know if syllable Skull to record is it all vanilla. Threes is nice acre. That they didn't want to lose him but he's off to You know huge huge pastors in the us and you know. i think You know. I think can still bring a lot to that tame and still feel like a lot of speed up to give a lot of experience You know what. I'm going to work well with the team. And all the sea work will with anton which she the young guy that of huge potential. And i think we're going to be a great combo and a good mix of You know youth and you know any experience. You wouldn't have had a wonderful a monday week ago. because you realize he with your old friends at deja but you're your longest standing. Friend independent school chum. Jamie was having a to that. Would've be just roberts facial Well you know the end of the dying of dining aubain rising each other long gone so No was triple eight and You know dj As the amoah guiding teams for each manufacturer chosen to to get the mileage the data Full supercars on these toys. So yeah which jamie. And i and for me it just felt it felt special to be to be back in that position with that responsibility and Yeah to be to be doing that job. Because he's obviously You know it's not. I taught i love and The c- banging an attainment of back tom. Credential and that caliber You know it certainly gets you on your toes and get the level up so We're gonna be gone a battle with johnny and ti next year. And you know. Make solid excited for that and Yeah it was It was human back out there Doing doing the job. Suva so Yeah it becomes ahead okay. Now did the test on monday. You had a couple of rod is now these are normally things. The end of the year it was almost array joining for you These are the things with sponsors and associates rather oscar unit. I get to meet name. And they say chances. Yeah exactly it's You know it's been a strange year for the whole category and You know the seasons of the finished a lot earlier than normal but all the crews have been on the road for huge amount of time and You know. They change normally round throughout victoria in queensland i've obviously you know been put on hold so You know the way where i to Put put a lot of the van by sponsors Through the car. And do you know it's an activation and relationships with with department of the team and You know that that was that was obviously handy for made to to get to know You know a lot of the partners of the team and and really. That's what i've been doing quite a bit. The wakes whether it be virtually Or you know in person just just meeting and getting to know you know the whole group and and You know that's what. I'll be continuing to do Up to up to mid december when everyone takes a bit of a holiday You know being near the factory up he You know i'm not. I'm not ready for to hold off had enough. Tom dodd lawn. So yeah selena the factory You know as often as i can and just trying to Yeah just say trying to settle fiddling which Yeah even hod. They're they're gripe bunchin for me. I'm just all each trying to suck up as much info as i can unsettling to work for your mental health and for your physical health during the period that you had which was during the my mostly during that oscillation period. How did you approach fitness mental wellbeing and and The hope of being opt to get to where you are now. Good question looking back now. The you know the heat now and everything's rosie to think it was always going to be but You know i can guarantee you. Yeah there were many many times where you know i did one and You know. I try very hard not to You know drain on self-pity Ended up to be fortunate about something. I'm incredibly passionate about And it was. You know it wasn't going to plan so Yeah we you can sink or swim and You know you know looking back at. It's not that. I had a lot of support with her. And are we kept each other sign. We each other and You know they were tough guys. Where we we talk it out and and tomato training and keeping fit was one of the best tools you know you can wipe out feeling sorry for yourself You're gonna die in battle. Get up and do something and then you you feel you feel better about yourself and then you you'd problems better and you know some days were hotter than others to do that but You know i did. I did You know i suppose we supported each other and You know as able to test myself and You know it was a position element used to being in and you know just stike positive outside true to myself and You know as i said force myself not to be a victim. Because i don't think that's an ashtray You know. I didn't want to be a victim. Didn't want people to feel sorry for me. it was what it was and You know pick up the phone. And i sold in our household and account. Do you have any phone calls. I had to change sponsors and putting plan. Id nfl twice and trauma clan different scenarios. Because the was very uncertain future was very uncertain. It was fascinating and i look back in something that i think was very good for me. It was a good exercise to go through Certainly don't take anything for granted. and Yeah the why pan. Daddy's yeah he's a eating 'cause. I took some tough blows. There were lots of things that went on that. You don't need to go into We'll have to see on ever feel unlucky. You might your unlock but Yeah some things. Yeah we're we're how high can The tell you everything. Everything's happened for a reason and Just really grateful that people that matter saw the qualities in me and giving me this opportunity. And i've had some great supporters behind me and Yeah now now. It's it's oh god old guy for next year and Yeah it's been each paper worse off than than we are You know it's been a very tough year for many many people but Yeah it's amazing what you capable of when your back's against the wall and you can choose to options and i think it's just based to decide positive style fit and that helps you sign in the in the toughest of the doesn't think she problems but i think it just helps you deal with adversity. You know better that a lot. You had dorothy cam board supercars. We're letting you into the a series. Do you think that process of being up to you know strengthen those ties with those core partners and the fact that subas were keeping on the books. If you like played a role in making show you could make the next move. Will noting in on i mean this was high Auction is you know it was this situation and it was always on my mind many months and you know this is the one it really. It was nothing to do with you. Know chasing funding or put sponsors or anything you know And it's gone to plan. You know i was working on backup lansing meyer. Ideal plan didn't come together With fourteen i'll just you know being picked up in the dream situation in a fantastic time so but yeah i mean regardless The series always involved anyway. Because when started. Always driving for twenty jerry red milwaukee rising and all went to huge huge efforts to give milwaukee as much exposure as a cutting that. I'm you there in In dave potential involvement going forward and had no real help really at all. I was carrying You know all the old white for twenty three red and you know. I was doing my baseball team and i went to huge huge lengths to To to you know to give them you know the exposure and You know out of the series in that for a lot of other sponsors too. Because i was just trying to keep everything. Afloat as a whole category would And that was the hottest be tight. 'cause i think i'll went the extra mile above and beyond in in many ways to To to help to help us to grow up and You know when that owen Up saw dan with it was pretty pretty hard to swallow. But all of the top by the series hij- We're still fourth in the championship. So you know you know. I think because roy he's gonna continue to let me studying the theory to feel like because we hadn't even gone back rising yet so From then on it was it was a nice tool To to to give a back come close supporters that were still you know still supporting the throughout the year of shocking by building lives and You know it again. It was it was really nice to see Such great support and we had some random relationships bill to that theories You know we're going to have a bit of fun with it and and build some new partnerships from a personal level and Yeah that's that's me. Gripe gripe stead now and Just made some as i said some great partners and with that from rising racing or other other forms of loss. You know it's Yeah certainly a very healthy exercise to go through and Yeah in the end. It hasn't really had an impact on on the direction of gone with tom. Driving but It's certainly it's It's it's helped create some some gravy on it will Now obviously the thing you got to do before the season starts just to live as much as you can about aj worst. I suppose picking up a a french rotation book chewed up. You'll a up for the luda. What commitments have you now and commitment to between now and when the season kicks off And you go to the sick things at this moment. You have to do i. Well i been be the most. I guess certainly had caught a few commitments With the with the team and And you know the end of the day Yeah it's with all the borders and what not. It's it's pretty much from both no point of view just trying to get to know everyone. I'm obviously everyone made the good break soon And then yeah when when when everyone back in january it'll be full steam ahead you know there's Yeah there's not so much we can do Obtaining credibly the last few months and You know now you know just building building some relationships Going into a break with a clear head taking a breath. putting a really really solid Off-season training program to get a which i'm doing at the moment And i'll be charring myself into that. Oh the december january period and You know coming out swinging mid january when everyone's back on day and You know it'll be full steam ahead into the new year so have certainly been very busy and Yeah now it's just Neely tom to again just a bit of make time and yeah. Just prepare. Myself for for for a massive. You really must be one of the things couples in the light The he bites embark on kp healthy and it coast chief. Tom wasn't didn't have the regular work. A terrific you. You got married over the christmas oxygen. And of course you've got the july who having alex and your basic matthew up there that you'll catch up with christmas armenian. Yeah of course Reality messy trifon. Last weekend in. How he by rich a huge achievement. How fallen man. and we're doing another trifon candy. Danny kings we keep. Pastel was the You know there's something going on this never done You know. I haven't i haven't seen my family. My mom and dad started a year. Dan the growing pray. Melvin so You know see we will be You know hanging to to see them. In december You alex is he with with louis key. Note that Be spending time with them You know very fortunate to be during glen. Well there's not a real you know. Obviously travel allowed You know we'll just be enjoying hyme and trying to get family up here and And we'll we'll be going across the earth as well christmas to see his family oversee. She's a very tough cookie on their family on a personal problem. So yeah we're we're obviously looking forward to You know to to going to see your family as well so we'll take a bit of time to You know try and just through the normal things. graduates by and Yeah just make sure those. She's charge because it's been it's been any signed month seventy and had tom to to take a break And just couldn't be couldn't be more excited you know to be to be starting a new year and such a huge opportunity and Yeah just trying to close up some loose ends now. I'm look going on lock to organize the new year. But it's very very enjoyable at the monitor. So yeah bring on bring on the little bit of a bright and a lot of hard work. One last question. I'll have rescued until as exactly. What have you got any old. Calendars gonna come out No delays it soon. I believe it son so On the wrong man to oscar instead saying a couple of potential graphs and Yeah i i believe it meant to coming at shortly. Almost very came to to say the final version myself and everyone is Just to see how the looking but Yeah gathered at looking positive. And i think it's getting quite to completion so hopefully return. I one so. I will thank you so much jodi on inside house myself. Thirty learn greg reveal. I certainly i to be factors. Which is we think can be the kickoff in february. I look forward to see you in number seventeen and i wish you all the very best for the year and rena The one of the stars of the category and has your back in a drive fitting in philo fulfilling in the way you wanna make. Thanks ninety. Thanks cry got got really purchase a sport and every little thing you in twenty twenty one inside super causes produced by thunder media. Judy next on for more or locking the podcast. Roger or mobile device search inside supercars the views expressed on inside supercars including the panelists and guests do not reflect the views of the network. Thunder media will sports radio. Any publication ray broadcast of the show without the express written permission of funding media is strictly prohibited.

Kara blow craig valentine casey Dick johnson roy lotta United pete subic penske Penske eastern creek davison Tom dodd lawn deakin fogle nine years craig todd keiser Paypal utah
The Climb//In and of Itself//Another Round//Palmer

The Film Vault

1:05:04 hr | 6 months ago

The Climb//In and of Itself//Another Round//Palmer

"Were to the film. Balts going to start off your. They'll healthy round. Fishing says anderson umbro Hosts for this round of what we've seen this week deflects the we've seen condensed down. It's a handy little reviews for you. We'll confess the flex in college. Are you buddy. I know your business. But i'll tell you anyway shop one last night today. Maybe in the shower i use. That is that workshop and we'll continue to workshop because it's not quite there yet. I just noticed for the first time. This is only second time that we've done this format that It's a bit of a mixed up for you a bit of a change up for a throwing or announcing the doing the top of the show because usually be like five todd the whole and now you're like i flick as much are more to the show where we don't do that. Maybe maybe we. I share with you. I mean you already know a couple of movies that will be flick fasting now listeners. All know by now because they see in title there but maybe Just make sure. I have like three movies for you to announce that will be run down by the end of the show all right down. I don't like it. I like it. It's more work for me. I just realized that. Not a love hate. I am very excited about this. This round afflict match all. Because i saw some really good shit since i talked to you last brian and i feel like yeah probably eat it as well. Yeah i think we're gonna. We're gonna wind up on a couple of these. Do you feel more relaxed. Now that you're not what's funny is the total recording. Time still takes actually probably take some more time but You choose to feel less stressed about the time. Yes but i mean. That's what i've been saying that since the beginning i don't like your peculiar i can't see words You taunting me are you. Are you trolling me. Bright you greg. Hoping you i can't say peculiar. Hey maybe the best pronounciation. And i didn't like putting now Two and a half three hour Shows i i think look. I loved listeners. I love the listeners. We have and there's many listeners who've been there since the very beginning since before the orange couch days and there's new listeners who to stumble across us but there are few and far between and a lot of people have said. Hey look i was going to listen to. The and i saw the time two hours twenty minutes. It's like what do you what do you think you know. I got that kind of time on my hands. It's it's not doing us any favors by having these big giant fat bloated shows. So i've always been under i to think we should have our long tight our shows But more recently. I've been like let's try and keep it like ninety minutes and in doing so. I'm watching the clock Realizing that we're you doing another very long. Show like we all right now. Because you're asking me these questions. Plus the wife started putting food orders and saying. Hey i wednesday night so we're going to hang out after your film baltin. You know we can watch something together and maybe a little a little dinner together. So then i started. I started to sweat that now that i've told her. Hey listen i. We're doing a tuesday nights and off limits. I can't help you out i. I'm not worried at all about the time. I'm not worried about the time at all and it makes me feel a whole lot better. Footloose fancy free. We're going to have a little bit. I mean we can afford to do so. Whereas before we conan o'brien however. I don't need to spend a bunch of time convincing with you can tell you that i want to get straight to the movies either way like what else starting to say before you derail the program. Was this this here episode. And the movies that we're going to cover. It's mike my favorite thing about doing the show. I don't know about you. Brian but i love talking about movies. That otherwise aren't being talked about. That are fantastic and like helping people who might be listening like thanking them for listening by saying check out these movies. They're fucking fantastic. I love it absolutely. I like to take movies. That you've brought to me and then turned to twitter and make recommendations that is truly one of the most pleasing aspects of the show. You just this week on the message boards. Which is what i. The comments is what i ac- most often because every time i get a comment patriot through the film ball. My phone chimes. And i and i read it immediately. Sometimes it's hurtful. They still are even other pain. Listeners are still someone means sometimes every now and again usually not but just a couple of days ago somebody said. Hey fantastic job. Brian recommending. What was it. What was it what i recommend. So there's something very good up more on that later but then they give you credit for patty cakes which continues to urge me. And they're doing it. They're doing just about yeah. Well i've brought that to the show. So i was the movie. Oh what it was a four year old version. They're giving you credit for that. Yeah i'm glad. I brought to the show. I everyone's before we get to the show we've already A qubits too much. As far as i'm concerned let's rushing. Come on let's go. let's go well. Let's not forget the number one. I'm right up buddy friendships. The friendship a friendship. Hey i just. Speaking of the friendship. I just released on the classic Episodes the The into the archive. I released the disturbing five most disturbing orange couch rendition which was a It was a very good List very fun show. I was heard telling you not to watch certain movies. Because i worried about your soul. Siv assign them all goes to show you how you've behaved and absolute right. Yes yes yes that's interesting. You look at the show. Hey hey like. It's been a minute since we're going to do that. We it's been awhile since we did some huge. Thanks to robert. Jared inskeep shereshevsky who brought us one of our three or four Picks today that we will be talking about and that pick is the climb more on that later. He came to us with the pick. As one of the signers. You too can be an assigner by being a patriot level at the twenty five dollar level. Patriotism for six months or more after six months is up. And you've been the twenty five dollar level. You can assign us a movie to flick fest within reason and i hate to say this to you rob but I would have seen the climb anyways it was on my list. I was very excited about it. And after seeing. And i definitely would have assigned to bryant for sure all right Let's get to fan on which is a list of what the A select few of what the listeners have been watching since we talked last. And this is thanks to mitch burns if you would like to let us know what you've been watching since you last. Listen to the program you can do so on our twitter at the film. Bolt facebook facebook Film about the film all day. Something very different and then also of course. Most importantly our instagram. At anderson and brian. This is l. c. movie junkie on twitter. I appreciate the salt lake. City movie junkie re responding or letting us know that They saw i saw make and the a fan of clean. I don't think so. Because he or she watched bank. And here's what you said. I saw make and our ko to eighty one and the guys were right and the guys are right. Okay to eighty one was way better. I have to agree. But i hate saying that publicly because it makes me seem like even more philistine. But i like simple. I think venture is trying to capitalize on the movement that swept the oscars last year to where it was wasn't even historically accurate like irving didn't commit suicide. He died from pneumonia. But i feel like we gave away the key. The key twist. I don't think i will say you know what i i can see. What you're saying your name again movie junkie. That's right s. l. c. cleanflicks. I can see what you're getting. However i think this was just you know sometimes when something it could be. It could be a proxy decision. You make and welcome in no could be a decision you make financially but it's too close to too close to them heart. You're you're you're putting poker or if you're making a bet on your favorite team you're betting with your heart not your head like i feel like that's maybe venture doing with like he was so close to was dad wrote the script. He's trying to make it for decades. It seems like and it's just it just didn't i didn't come together. I think it came together and his head and he had his dad that he was thinking about and he didn't want to let his dad down and his dad was no longer around. And but i did feel. I mentioned this in our in our review of that he was shoehorning in quite a quite a bit of a contemporary politics. Two and that's that's pandering to laugh pandering. But i'll but. I think that was one of the weaknesses are the lack of comedy in a comedic. Movie was also a glaring weakness was overall poorly conceived. And this is still a good movie you should do. You know i'd rather really really By myself when. I say this. But i felt like it was miscast. Like make wasn't really compelling of a character. I agree. I totally agree. And he was old when he didn't. I won't be surprised if he's up for best actor. I don't know about of course. He's very white. Oh let me mention this to there are some some. There's some talk. There's some back and forth on the old Patriots comments over there on my jamming patriot on your throat. I'm just this is. This is how i communicate with a lot of listeners. Right and i was reading news of Saying hey this is what i was accused of been. I hesitate to even say this. Because everything's taken out of context. And people i get a lot of people have listened to these shows and i talk very fast and i got a lot of stuff going. I get that now. It's hard to be an active listener. And you get it all here. What i'm saying but apparently this is what was heard by some one person. Let me know now. they met. That makes me believe that many other people probably got too and that he's been let me know here's what was misconstrued. People believe that. I said oh you know what i am. Totally behind the idea of people being nominated and entered into festivals and nominated for awards clearly basically did solely on the color of their skin or their gender. That's that's what i'm all about. And that's what i want to happen. That's what i heard. It's just to what are you assert on the record. I i did not say that. Nor would i ever say that. And i was what i was saying i wanna. I don't wanna get into it again. Brian but i was saying like sundance baton themselves on the back but all the lady directors and magically they have a bunch of lady directors recently but before. They didn't so that they didn't have before tells me that they were part of the problem. Or it's just pure coincidence or their over correcting. that's yeah. We talked about this. The people at least one person. So i mean. I am a liberal snowflake in many many ways but not to that extent. Let's see let's what of our millions of listeners. One person got upset and you There's mostly rush the podge. Oh yea i know you've learned in radio maybe you didn't but you get one caller and There's that's one one tenth of one percent of the listening population. So if one person brought this up that means that there's others who also misconstrued what i said. That's a good point. I was it was my burner account. Who posted that but Yeah i i can't. I can't blame you for being trolled ryan i mean look at you. What else you got. Hey bitch knicks pirinsky. On facebook saw street gain the behind the scenes documentary assessment street and on spiring film reminiscent of. Won't you be my neighbor. Five out of five stars today. We dan's app did he doesn't say here but he must have. Because i don't believe that it's available yet on the old streaming services he also saw unless he's an editor or something and then he saw cost which is another one that was at believe a documentary about a group of teenage girls groping with life. And it's set back in texas One summer what. A coming of age story of tragic proportions harmony korean sham baker andrea. Arnold would be proud four and a half stars. Five all right. So nick seen some sundance movies and let us know ahead of time. How they were all cost spend street gang custom not make either one of our list lists what it looked interesting. It's just. I try to stick to five twenty three on instagram saw. Dick johnson is dead. Haven't heard the guys mentioned this one. But dick johnson is dead is probably the most affecting documentary of ever seen as well as unique spin on the genre itself equal parts. Heart warming and heartbreaking. It's kristen johnson and her father tried to accept the inevitability of loss or comedic fantasies and through conversations. We'll stick with me forever. If i wasn't a broke college student really. I'd get a patron and assign to gays demore. I appreciate your your opinion. I have heard. Many people speak very highly of this documentary. I saw documentary a few weeks ago. And i have some very mixed feelings about it so i i do not bring up. Bring ryan added added. Ryan does watch. We will be able to chime in as well. Because i saw dick johnson is dead and it got a little a little tiresome after awhile tiresome but i loved him dick. Johnson's fan says it's a. It's a eighty ninety minute movie. How tiresome gonna get. It was kind of the same. We'll talk about what you say. And then finally adam kaplan on facebook. The sunday's episode led to me to watch fisher rejection which then leads me watching ten till noon. Official rejection will solid but a lot of the info. I already knew things to follow an anderson for years trying to make groupers ten till noon. Ten til news started off strong. And i enjoy the layers being peeled back. But i felt the gimmick only ran so far which hindered the second half of the film for me overall a solid watch as well and a good tarantino rip off but i can also understand why so many major film festivals rejected it. Thank you all for. Oh that's that's something. I wrote the thank you all right. Thank you reminded us So that fan fiction and now it's time thank you very much for everyone who ca- submitted to that and contributed to the influx. I love hearing what the listeners Have seen recently cuba's In the know and now move onto Well we've seen recently. How about that. How do like that anderson in the news. A couple of notable deaths of titans of industry acting legends. Hal holbrook of course passed away oscar nominee for your favorite into the wild and another one of his contemporaries and other great actor dustin diamond best better known as screech from saved by the belt. Like you're gonna. Newscasters another yellow. And i'll bet at best known as way has come to his week. Long bout of cancer sad. He was like just as crazy. It is crazy he was he was just kind of cruising along and you know doing his thing and then all of a sudden he's that guy i got a maybe it's note worse Lung cancer Three weeks later done now. You don't hear that very often now. There's actually a huge a year old. He always reminded me. He was like bryan bryan with a lot of hair. That's not and they call you bald screech. United school sneeze. What was that. what is was just. I'm allergic to all. Let's talk about movies. That we've seen for the love of god for god's sakes we're time dymock i was gonna say we were assigned to fill. I'm doing your job. We were assigned to fill the particular who assigned it to us. Since ski assign this to us he took a while he came up with a plea one other. That was a lot of times what these listeners are doing. Who sign up for the assignment. perk on patron which i had misgivings about it. I wasn't really sure about until we actually started doing it. And i love getting the these these movies. That are are way. I i said last week but what people are doing. It's like they're coming up with movies. That are them. They hadn't seen a long time since they were kids. That aren't readily available on disk. And but the guy can get a torn copy for you or i can get You know i can send you a burn. Dvd and. i'm like i. I love the idea however i hate talking about a movie that no one else can see. You know what i mean true. Yes is oh. that's your instincts. That's that's my reasoning. As to why i've kind of talked out of it. Are you gonna as whatever but arcadio twenty one was one of those movies. That's really hard to come by. But we were lucky. Enough that somebody Put a pirated version on youtube. So we went with it. There's a movie this lost to history or suppressed. Like i flick fest song of the south. Not because i want everyone to go track down. Because like i imagine it's like the the the explorer who've been a cave on the rest of the people are outside and he comes out. What did you just say. Let me tell you why racism. Yeah and then you're gonna wait to give it to me and you really want me to watch it. I'm like i have no interest in ever watching this. All right you devotion wash it and then you should. I'm going to be doing videos about inappropriate at a an today. Brian is as a parent. You'll appreciate this. I was called the yes video. I sat in my garage with him where we do a lot of our videos. I put my timer to thirty minutes. My four year old and i and i said all right for the next thirty minutes as long as this timers going Anything you ask within reason. I will say yes to that as long as it stays in the garage like anything you want to play with or look at or get me have me get down from up above the shell for i can the addict. I'll say yes to everything and he didn't know what to do with himself. He's really let's do it. Yeah that's too much what he's only four and you know he's still getting his faculties so he didn't really take advantage. I keep the worst was dressed up in hockey gear kind of stumbling around the garage. It's fun video fun video right. I wanna know who. Since gary said that jorissen ski i wanted to give the name other one more time. The climb is twenty twenty film directed by michael angelo. Calvino is ridden by michael. Luca vino and kyle marvin it. Stars michelangelo levino as mike and kyle marvin as kyle. This is a twenty twenty film. It is eighty nine percent run tomatoes. You have to rent this guy. I can think of a lot. Worse things to do with your dollars. a brisk ninety hd version on the old amazon. Yeah yeah maybe it was five bucks ninety five. I don't pay attention to money. Ninety five minute movies take up a huge value. Sorry investment and investment get it investment in your life Anderson let's talk. Let's do i absolutely love this movie. Now i preview this movie with greg's of osteo my better over there on cinematics. I don't know why means that you dick to you. I apologize brian. You really know. I love however enforced Yeah so with my better over there on cinematics We we preview movies before they come out. We take a look at. What's what's ahead and the climb was on there. I had read enough that it seemed interesting but the poster really looks like some kind of it looks foreign. It looks sanctimonious even though it's just two guys on ten speeds it just. It looks long right it looks. It looks like homework. And i don't know anyone. I don't know the cast a comedy. I knew one one one of the cast members by the time it was all said and done. Actually two of got from cheers too and this movie is van fucking tastic. I absolutely i i quite. I quite enjoyed it myself. This is one of the better films. We've been assigned. The climb was very enjoyable. So the it's hard to describe zone because it's funny because the weakness of the climb if there is a weakness is it doesn't have a strong narrative. The story bounces around a bit. But if you're if you're gonna try that if you're going to have make that beer movie you better have some really good dialogue. Some really fun characters and it has all of that like the movies very fun. It's funny there are a couple of moments and Enjoyed the laughter out but a couple of joe as short like that could have just been his own little short yes. It's great characters. Interact if you enjoy. Anderson is interaction. You will let me let me Let me just give you a quick set up because brian struggling here with talking about what the movie's about it's just about two guys that have a a longterm friendship and the ebbs and flows of their friendship and it's told in chapter form which a lot of time it works out pretty well and the duke. The two characters reminiscent of one. John c reilly and the other one is newcomer to the show and to us into a lot of you who have watched under road and The wolf of snow mountain snow hollow and that is jim. Cummings who was a revelation. Yes kind of been a got a little bit of thunder road vibe. There is even a funeral speech. Gonna michelangelo calvino who wrote directed and stars. He's a two hander and he's one of the he's it's two banana. He's a second banana first. Banana depending on how you're looking at it and he's feels very jim cummings but he doesn't quite have the kinetic energy but he does feel like him and his friend Played by somebody. i'm not familiar with. I never seen him before. Kyle he he's kind of. Am i going kyle. That's that's his name kyle marvin. He reminds me a little bit of John c reilly. He's like a johnny riley. But he's just kind of like unassuming when john c reilly thing on assuming doughy really really nice kind of like kind of like a little right. Yeah told through these chapters so this without giving anything away. I'll give you the chapters and gives you an idea of what the movie's about it starts with. I'm sorry and it opens with them on a road in the french alps and they're on ten speed bikes just car following them. And it's uncut. It's a wonder and it's probably nine minutes long. And there's a lot of physical comedy going on here while they're riding their bikes up on the mountain road and the dialogue back and forth is biting and revelatory and life changing life altering for both the characters. There's honesty top honesty and then also a fight scene. I don't even wanna give anything anymore away. So the first title we see is i'm sorry and then that's the next nine minutes and then the next one is let go followed by number three which is thanks. It's broken stop. It grow up fine and all of those make perfect sense. After having watched the ensuing chapter unfold each chapter i should say is told in absolute one or fashion. So they're all owners. It's all as though i mean there's a lot of long shots and there's out right. They opened up tab lows in vignettes just to let you know that. We're going to be on the mountaintop here. A lot of added with that but then once the action begins other than the one in the house. Where i they're going down into the basement. I think they went into a wall and turn black and you could say that was a cheap but a lot of these is no cheats. No visible cheese. Noticeable noticeable cheats anyways. And yeah there's a lot of long it's mostly made up of long takes and it's just it's it earns all of its laughs. And it's it's it's it's so intentional like there's a seeing without giving anything away again but there's a scene where a car truck is parked in the middle of the road and a car could probably go around it but doesn't want to and the car is honking and then i'll fight almost ensues and the guy gets in the car. The car's driving away. You notice that it's a student driver car right down to almost but it's like that was a funny scene but michael angelo servino to make it be a covina fake. A student driver is just that extra little you know that shows that like he really spent time. I thought it was the teacher of it probably. Wasn't i'm saying that the car was a student driver car guy so michelangelo. Angelo calvino another newcomer. This is a guy that i will absolutely watch. Anything would be makes next. And i'm you know he's got a lot of like jim cummings. I don't know if there's enough room in hollywood for these two guys. I don't know. I particularly enjoyed the the scene. I guess it was the third chapter that takes place in the house where mike comes to visit and he's not in a good shape and it's cool from a technical point of view because the camera stays outside the house for that whole scene almost like once it gets there. It kind of tells the story through the window. The second that's the first one is all inside and it's during thanksgiving and then they move outside and they do that thing where it's christmas and thanksgiving. And then they move outside one continuous shot bride and you can see that goes into time lapse in the camera continues to move. It's a little bit. This is a little rough around the edges like there are some warbles like you can see the camera operation happening now again now and again and you know that. The camera operators like. Oh fuck please don't we. We don't want to have to start over just because to me and let me tell you. This movie works without the winner. Gimmick but i appreciate it that much more. Yeah that's an added as a top and so did this time lapse where it's goes from you know Through the night. And now it's now it's nighttime and it was daytime. When the camera. I won out and it goes up on a new character and we realized we quickly realize. Oh wait. didn't go for just day tonight. Eight by change seasons. It's christmas now. When it was really clever i really really well mapped out. Thought out and then brian's right like when it goes back stays outside the house. And we're almost like peeping toms kind of listening in on on this family gathering warriors premiered. I don't know. I was gonna say premiered at producer cut all. This seems more. I don't know if you caught how you watch this. Okay audio looping on. This movie is fantastic. It's like another added joke to the movie like this in that same scene. Mike is not a good place in his life. Mike is drinking too much when he pulls off this is. This is the third rather nine there. Mike the booze catches up with mike and he passes out drunk and he crushes a coffee table. In the middle of this christmas party and offscreen they have audio looping to record audio afterwards. That either could be background or could be no nothing but the grandma who's there she maybe. He just lost his balance and then The father the brother the uncle the uncle soon as he like face down that might goes face down on. The coffee table passed out drunk. The uncle that the football legend. That's right joie glad you did. Bring that up because there are a lot of a little asides a little small moons. I found myself rewinding a couple times a did i just hear him say that. And what what was that looked at you. Just there's a lot of little moments in this movie. This is the type of movie that i would spend a lot time with back in the day before i was doing the show and i was a dad and all that is kind of move watch two three times especially in the theaters. I probably containing go back and see it in the movie theaters over and over again. This is a movie that i am in love with. I love this movie. And i think rob bring it to a sooner than later. I was on my list. But you know you never know. There was a chance that maybe i just never got to it. Because there's not a whole lot of this premier to calm back in two thousand nineteen. I don't think kobe's doing it any favors. I i mean this is the type of movie that should be up for awards that good. It's really good. Yeah i was supposed to be released in march of last year. This is almost a year later. It's coming out. I hope it. I hope i got sober of attention. This is a fun. it's a little movie. Maybe it might. Not but i find it smart solid cold open by the way we discussed that last week. Coal is it a cold the first chapter this is now they just go right it. Well i guess the whole i do. We get the title after the bill by cold open. Usually you get the title card after the first scene takes place. I don't remember the. I don't remember the client. Think the came. Before i guess. I don't think hey six bucks. Five ninety nine for rental. I know there's a ton of stuff out there that you can watch. It's already part of Subscription you got but this is a. This is a really good. I didn't feel like. I made a poor choice by spending six bucks on this at all. It's a movie that i would spend now in the theater. I'd then double that in the theater. And i love this movie absolutely love this movie and a perfect ending and i enjoy to talk about the ending with you. Brian off air but Did you pick up on the was going on there. Did you see what happened there home. You can see. Remind myself down what that's pretty. That's a pretty pretty fucked up. Any was it. Oh yeah. I think i think you're talking about. We'll talk here. I don't know if we can do a sport. I don't know if there's enough here i mean. Is there enough here for a spoiler spoil the fuck out of this now. I don't think so but again. Well if you talk about him passing out on the coffee table died. Didn't want you doing that so then there's things to talk about. Well let's take a quick. Let's talk let's take a quick break. We'll take a look at amazon before we come back after we can say it'd be up before we get. Let's take a break played some music. I never no. I never know what's going on. Around you got throwback no coming up next. That's right that's my line see. This whole new format has got me twisted coming up next. We will continue the flick fashions with some very interesting choices. And we will go over the amazon purchases. I don't know where to go with this to go with their. You know what. I spend a couple of two three years. Maybe since i really highlighted textbooks thank you books through what no nobody i mentioned one and it reminded me that like people are buying textbooks and thank you very much for buying textbooks. The somebody got truman's scientific guide to pest management operations seventh edition. Perhaps they are a majoring. In agriculture going to uc davis only first agricultural school of thought of the only culture viticulture viticulture. No texas and obviously many examples but perhaps Studying to be viticulture starts scholar boy. Move-on other those purchased on the amazon. Click through banner this up anderson. Brian com include. Somebody's getting ready for big amo. Tcl fifty five inch four k. You hd dolby vision hdr roku smart. Tv was purchased. That is obviously the newest edition. While the bells and whistles anderson. i both have Tcl tv's in her home and you can't do any better extract price. That is the best love love. Hey brian how hand there mayor just said the ba- game it bugs me every single year. Just hearing you say right there. I thought about it for the first time ever. We could probably just call it something else. It rhymes like the stupor bowl right. Because i mean a lot of people get drunk and a lot of domestic. Violence occurs on the super bowl day and people are in stupor. So what if everyone is certified. I feel like we start a movement. Everyone just a big gamer. I think we can any believe. It can't say i'm going to say they're doing that. One on some kind of add that. I'm seeing all the time now we. She circled of the super bowl. Well on the one. I think we're too small to attract plenty big enough to super bowl tech. Secondly i don't not really selling anything so You know it's all like hey get your super bowl blank here. You know like as its trademark. Were just talking about the super bowl. Which quarter allowed to do. But i don't mind soon. We should start spreading. The word. stewart will hurt here. I would tailor-made stand eight point back. It's a golf bag for golf. Clubs b to c to be ergonomic leather. Executive office chair was picked up. Someone got themselves in. Arlo video doorbell. Truman scientific god i mention good luck with that stream. Light ultra stringer led flashlight steiner safari. Ultra sharp inoculations to vanco bluetooth. Earbuds logitech keyboard and mouse combo. Whiskey number seven fiber bicycle seat post western digital four terabyte external hard drive task. Game level. Your microphones spotlight wireless outdoor solar powered security camera. Bovi tuned to air bluetooth car kit. Eight feet of heavy duty cat eight. They're already up to date Category ethernet cable. Six hundred scotch thermal. Laminating pouch is phillips. Sixty six if you should all great goto abreau booster high back booster seat and a nail that post to forty two hundred forty easy go products echo fat would kindling with. I gave you extra few seconds. Derail the super bowl stupid tubal. Every time i say stephen mom word mike. What other bad words do you know. He's like stupid dumb. What the fuck. I'm like okay. let's stop right there. Those three bad words. He knows stupid dumb. And what the fuck. And it's always what i mean. He sees me laugh every time. And i hate that. I laugh but i can't help it. We're watching hockey and like the rangers. That's hilarious rank score against my beloved penguins. And i'll be a man what happened. The rangers escorted. What the framers. Dude come on. Oh it's funny but stops. You gotta bring a new hockey game last. Since last time talked you saw what you people got promising. Young women woman The was click through as well as the box. Shoot five still go south street. Four the dream master. Freddie's dead the final nightmare again. Brian big trouble. Little china. china southland tales horror of dracula. Pulp fiction the jacket casino. Royale quantum of solace hot rod for. This is the end. Never sleep again. The elm street legacy live a little edge of tomorrow's. The obama duke paddington to the terminator two judgment day follows blue mountain state of the rise of fad land. Badly and i gotta start. My music is pretty right there. And then sounds good to me. Donnie darko click through as well as corpus christi october. Yes on both mortal engines. Never saw blockers click through as well as let's be cops. Mike and dave need wedding dates. Kind of like the thing where people were just having a cool like Dude where's my car. Just kind of like saying almost full sentences. Mike and dave need whom on kumar of course. It was the world's end the kid detective her things forbidden planet. prince's ma. ma. Ma monon okay. I've seen. I've seen it one hundred times. I've seen that title hundred times that i've never actually tried to say as well as lord of the rings. The motion picture trilogy. The motion picture trilogy. Thanks for enduring apologized for my poor reading that the program welcome back time to continue the fashions with some more movies. We saw this week anderson. Got a couple of Alarmed communicate from those assistant listeners. Who were like this anderson trying to kill the gambling segment a new game last week. Psycho innocent mistake. We both realized that. As soon as the mikes were shut off and gambling was rectified. Divide off air. of course. i signed anderson a movie. He was talking about that movie. And let's do that. Let's talk about a little in and of itself. Derek dill guava ios in and of itself is the technical full title which sucks because my search for in and of itself is not finding it. And it's like you mean dirk doug while fucking derek doug ouadhias makes it difficult. It makes it a difficult less all you have. Oh you know. I'm glad you brought that up. Let's talk about strikes and you assign this. Formula came to me just this week while walking my dog. If you must do. I was walking my dog and my son. And that's where i do my best thinking ignore the two of them and i was kind of know. Walk down the street thinking things. And i thought i thought brian Pisses me off a lot with his assignments. Like let's think about this. And i realized here the three strikes sorry One strike. It's going to be a documentary most of the time. You're you're assigning movies at a documentary second strike it's some kind of music documentary or third strike. Hfs a terrible movie with this one with an in and of itself only one strike really gonna commentary aspect and it's funny. 'cause i mean you would describe it in the broadest terms as a documentary right like i recommend people low know as little about this as possible going into it. I wish i knew less because you can't avoid it but when you i. When when the movie's opening they let you know that this is a show that will was ran in new york for five hundred and twenty two consecutive shows and. I wish. I didn't know that because that bothered me. Distracted me throughout because i kept reminding myself. Oh he's doing he's done this. Five hundred and twenty some odd times. He's he's doing an act and kind of bugged me when he was emotional. But but but dirksen twenty twenty documentary question mark. You know what. I think we we do. Is we spoil this one. Do a spoiler only episode for this one. Because there's a lot to talk about. I don't wanna give anything away. You're absolutely right there's a lot of revelations and a lot of reveals Mavs redundant right there and One one of the reveals was that my my wife is a monster. I watched this with her. And she She announced thirty minutes and that she was bored. And then they told you not to do that. Specific dried jillian. We had a night together. We had nothing to watch them. Like i'm gonna. I'm just gonna put it on and see how goes thirty minutes and she goes. Okay i'm bored and this is all And then she started using adjectives and guy a little bit and she's a little skeptical. But here's what we can say about this movie. Brian and that frank oz franken's growing grover himself. Dr wu hundred percents run tomatoes. I just learned that today. I was surprised. I could see enough people. Jillian out there in the world who maybe would drag the score a little bit. This is streaming on hulu anderson. What did you think of dirt. Audio's patel he's the devil. And i am the ruler latifa released. I am the latifah. So i don't know how have you seen like Spalding gray's swimming to cambodia. Is that the one that Still soderbergh director soderbergh directed. One of spalding. Gray's one man shows. He did two of them swimming. Commodious the the best known one. And i remember even blown away by that But that was years ago They've come a long way of technology. And filmmaking and This is Another one man. Show that is shot entirely on location From the audience from day to assume i don't think so. No i think that they i know that they took from a number on. There are clearly clearly frankenstein and it was clearly like some close up shots especially over the card tricks but it is presented as though the show was beginning to. Yeah beginning to end and This this guy is very very clever. He's very good at what he does. he's a great storyteller and he makes you think for sure and he's a he's a magician By trade a luge an illusionist and a storyteller but he takes it to the next level. Takes what david blaine does. And what card trick guys do. And what storytellers doing. He combines them all to make a very thought provoking emotional Evening out essentially that. You'll probably never forget if you're in the audience and i was i got tweets from people who said i've i've i went in new york. I went five times. Oh i could see that notable names. I guess there's really none other than david himself who Bilk as mexican. Bill gates bill gates and david blaine a couple other people that i kind of recognized larry wilmore was there. Yeah but Kind of hard to talk about it beyond that without giving you a bunch of stuff away So maybe we don't do that here. I don't think we'd annika. It's probably smart not to but it's it's engaging and it's Despite my my monster of a wife said it's not boring. I didn't find a boring at all. And i was really really impressed. With is storytelling ability. And how we could craft show like this like there's very little fat on the show It was very inventive from the beginning to the end The props that were used were minimal. But they were effective and fantastic. And i had no. I love the the artistic choices really liked. I'm mira here that i've actually seen it twice now once by myself. Just checking it out for the show. And i was so blown away that is like christy. Christie is is the opposite of jillian a lottery specs. And i'm like you're going to really really enjoy this. You should watch it and she turns it on. So i saw for a second time and you can pick up on a lot more. I was aware in jillions defense. I was aware that the first thirty minutes a little more of like you know on ramp. You know what i mean. We'll take out onto the freeway. When it really picked really picks up around the letter reading aspect. I was the only part where i got emotional. I remember you saying that you got emotional. A few times and The letter reading thing. It was hard not to get emotional. Jillian checked out. She didn't see that part. But i i wasn't sobbing but yeah i was getting teary eyed. For sure. Watching these people completely expose themselves on stage layer like they did emotionally and they. Now i want. I want to answer so brian. And i didn't do a lot of digging because i didn't want to come on this program and and give stuff away and i'm glad that i didn't have a whole lot to give away even the spoiler section but i'm sure answers could be found and we'll talk a little bit about that. I'm intentionally avoiding the answers. That i'm sure i don't doubt there's all reddit thread. You know explaining how everything was done. That's fine. That's part of going to see an illusionist or a magician. Whatever is like being if he can he or she can like sweep you away with with the illusion. That has great. You've done your job. I don't need to know how it's done. i'm i'm sold. None of it's kind of like. I don't know we're in ways kind of like going to see a special effects movie and then and then being like i must now they did all of those special effects here do good or bad. I can answer the question for you. Brian computer generated imagery realty stat. Rula i've never latif release teesta. Do you believe that the posted guy was a real thing or do you think that He made up a lot of that stuff. What is the posted. The book isn't the one guy that just talk about the other guys the other. Oh yeah. I believe that. Yeah i can see that. Let's let's say about the audience that would be drawn to that. They're more a little more artistic than -pective jillian thinks that that is all part of the act is a were. It could definitely be but it would strike me that that doesn't seem like it's worth falsifying. Poor elephant okay. Hey anyone can see if you have hulu you can watch this on. Who and then you can. Listen to our spoiler discussion. However long that may be the which will be On the patriots feed Thank god we got that so we can do things like that. Because i definitely want to talk to you about some stuff when i in and of itself i found it quite effecting anderson joy everyone i've heard almost universal praise from the people i've recommended to on twitter or wherever so this is worth. This is worth exploring. Is my my wife. The older one. You've heard anything negative from actually in terms like you only. Yeah i think it is. Actually the only person who's had a negative reaction of couldn't finish it like everyone is either the read the reactions of rains from. Oh my god. I love this amazing to does pretty good. I mean some of the tricks were a little whatever but it was pretty good. Like that's probably the most critical thing. I'd heard until this very moment so i'm in the my least favorite parts. Were the the action the reaction shots from the audience. That always makes me uncomfortable. Whether it's like a comedy Live show that. I'm watching On hbo or or you know an allusion show like this. I leave the alone. i don't like to see them. It makes me feel uncomfortable when i see them looking at each other laughing going. Oh i just hated fucking hate sprain. I'd just. It makes my skin crawl. I don't want a little bit wrote. You know what. I mean like you kind of have to have it in there but do you. I mean i could see the backs of their heads. Maybe that'd be okay. But like i feel like it's it's leading the viewer at home. Know how they should be feeling or know that they're not alone in feeling that way and it's just it makes me. I'm sure that has on the do with me being a problem. Do you feel the same way when you watch like a comedy special. And they said his laughing. Yeah i hate hate. Why is it just answered the question. Why i said it before you asked it. Just answer the question. I'm a magician. I'm an illusionist. I answered the question before you asked it. Then you're the realty east. I am the royalties to every every night. I do a show with you. Feel release all right here we go. I got one more movie brian when he got. I have one more well. Why don't you go for i should. I should go first because mine was just okay. But it's timely and it's big movies one of the big movies. The kind of feel like comes out these days. So i will talk quickly about homer polit a little things palmer paul. Then i heard bad things got a very. I love the log. Line log. line is to cops hunt down a serial killer that's it that's all it says. The barebones meat potatoes typing high-concept movie and I saw promotion for this movie. Like on local news or something on the background and there were talking to rami. Malik malik malik About it and then they showed a couple of clips and he was talking about it about it and it looked like bad. Csi made from my my mom. Mom doesn't listen to this. So i i'm not gonna worry about hurting her feelings but she watches that kinda shit. That's overlooked and hockey and hokey and it felt like that in a look like oh my god. This move awful. I will never watch the little things. Thank you i have no. I've little interest. However i did see palmer the day it came out palmer. Twenty twenty one film direct by fisher stevens. Yes johnny five fisher. Stevens starring justin timberlake as the titular palmer co-starring writer allen sam He is excellent writer. Allen is probably somewhere in the neighborhood of twelve years old eleven years old. He he was he was solid. I really like ryder allen. A lot as sam leash wayne right. Juno temple in june squibb also star in this film seventy five percent on run tomatoes. This is streaming on apple tv. Plus plus you can see palmer so palmer's the story it's a very amusing story in quotes because it is a very put a light. It's a character. Study anderson's character stay very late narrative very light narrative. The story basically is justin timberlake as playing this do this. Or redneck dude. Who's just got released from prison. He comes home to live with his grandma. I guess june squibb upon his release from prison. Call memo's no grandma is not quite that backwoods hsun squibb has someone living on her property juno temple and her son writer. Alan sam the aforementioned somewhere like quite a bit. Sam is the most interesting part of the story. Which i'm glad they. I mean it's right on the edge of being belabored fell on the side of just. Oh there's just enough like sam is very obviously gay. He's he's he likes wrestling up in. You know dresses. And he likes dressing up in girls clothes he. He's obsessed with this. Putt like almost like a my little pony ferry show now making a joke here like actually about fairies on tv in the make. He wants to join the fan club. He he's he they would call him. Fancy fancy lad in the In certain parts of the country and justin timberlake's character palmer sorta though him under his wing. They call palm if they're in australia. They call him a puszta if they're in the uk and his name almer interesting so odd couple. The hardened gino just released from prison guy. Who's wrong turn. His life around is now who are protecting the young fancy lad. So what you're saying is it's entirely unique and like nothing you've ever seen before. No that's unfortunately not the case It's very very familiar. This isn't above average movie but it's three stars out of five if you love justin timberlake and you gotta see on the screen. Maybe this is one check out is not none. It is not beyond the realm of possibility. Anderson that justin timberlake might get maybe a oscar nomination for palmer. He is quite excellent. And i have to give him is due he got his gone from the noodle hair dork from ninety s boy band to a legit like good actor and a movie star like he. He owns the screen. Is this chooses scenery. Is this the one where he's got. The tiger tattoo does tiger to. He has a beard tiger tattoo on a bad santa meets. Sling blade but like zero laughs. No what's his name. Who's in both of our dwight. Yoakam billy bob. It's funny you mentioned to billy. Who's billy bob movies. That's right so palmer is good. I just can't say it's great. I don't know if you if it's worth signing up for an apple. Tv subscription or trial. Just for this. But you're not going to waste your time but it's not great so just know that going into it. I mean it almost feels like practice at times like my picture. I picture them saying. I'd like to play somebody hard. If feels like an acting exercise and he did really well like he was convincing. And i bought it. This is the little weenie from you. Know in sync and he was menacing. I still to wrap this baby up and this is one that to wear is streaming blanket. Could you see this report. I see where did i see another round another round rental only running to just watch it can be rented for five bucks thomas former platforms. Thomas vinter berg directed this one. I it's been a while since i've talked about thomas vinter berg. Thomas winterberg directed movie. That i absolutely love called celebration from your hunt. A dog a dog my ninety five movie and then s brian. The hunt. You haven't got there. No i had not been there yet and just it's all right. I appreciate your i. I like you being involved with not the hunt from last year With my with my with my lady betty gilpin love her. I have not seen her in months. Because i haven't seen the hunting months. But god i love that betty gilpin and they cancelled glow. And it hurts me brian. It hurts me. i should also say that glow one of the wrestlers in glow the tv show. That's now defunct shisha. The wolf the wolf. Want the wolf lady wolf girl. She was the love interest. Wealthy at one. Point in the climb was the only other actor and then norm from cheers was also there and that was the climb. Start going back now. I'm back or talk about the hunt or a also known as the ogden johnson the hype about the the kindergarten teacher with mads mikkelsen. Who i've been told the ss silent so it's just mad. I will never pronounce it man. I'm with you. I will always always always mads. Mikkelsen is fantastic. This is a danish film and they speak You gotta read this movie subtext. But here's the. Here's the longest shortest brian. It's about these teachers. High school teachers who were all kind of burnt out different levels of burnt out. And they're going about their life. Centers right management is. I wanna pause this real quick. Because i'm looking at a. I'm looking at wikipedia they have. They have a phonetic spelling. Actually oh can go to a copy. You can do this off your laptop right pedia. Little listen link right there after his name and it'll it'll pronounce it for you. I'm guessing the da's silent because it looks like an m. e. e. schwa- s. But i'd like you to go to mas- mickelson's of wikipedia page and like the fifth in is like listen and i want to hear what it says. He said matt he's just i mean. He changes his whole name. Mas- mega what's he saying madman. So it's about these these teachers high school teacher and they're all kind of Burnt-out to different levels of out Ma ads is the most burnt out of the mall. Probably as as as marriages says failing. And he's just he doesn't. He's just kind going through a lot of people. It is almost like zombies. And he's gone through the paces and they they're not who they used to be because their life didn't turn out the way they wanted to be and one of the teachers in the small circle of like five guys say says They they had been reading something recently. That philosopher like this this this thinker deci suggested that everyone's people are born with a point oh five percent alcohol deficiency right so you had to constantly try and fix that so this group of high school teachers decided to give it a go and they decide to see if there's any truth to that and perhaps because there are so goddamn board perhaps because they think that maybe there's something to it and let me say brian one thing leads to another and Things are working out for some of them for some not so much. It's very interesting. It's very fun at times And the thing that sticks with me most it will always take with me is the end of the movie which is a real left. Turn from how you would imagine a movie like this to end. It's very european movie and That's that's with an exclamation mark I as far as the ending goes. I mean it's a european. It's 'cause like this was an american movie i think it would've. It would've been a talking point and there'd be a lot of angry. Newscasters explaining to us why we should not like this movie. I could see that. I can see. I'm very curious got another round. I recommended and i would like to also say brian. You have not seen this. But i do believe as a child as a youth that we were all had at least point oh five alcohol deficiency and i remember trying to drink in eighth grade and trying to bring snapple bottles with vodka half snapple and. I tried to drink through the day. I've i've told you this story. I've talked about this before and it didn't go well. I had a lot more admiration and respect for hollick's. I understand that his disease and told me that twice. I worked with dr seventeen years. I have family members who suffer from it but at the same time. People scoff at the funny stumbling drunk stumble bum and you know it takes a lot of work on. Four drunk is portrayed in like old movies. He's the guy there's always stumbling around the neighborhood. isn't he. funny they still do that. And like Foreign films sometimes. But you know it. Took like a young man brian. Fifteen years old. And i was just always tired in sick and i tried it for like a week and a half two weeks by mike. I feel good in the morning. I like having this buzz at school but then like buy lunch. I'm just. I want to take a nap a day. Got a lot of put up with a lot you know. Yeah it's not an easy exists point. Five isn't actually that much right. That's like a light buzz. Yeah that's enough to get you a dui though so no point with opponent wait was. I think they moved to two point five really well. I have a drink and a half. Essentially i haven't drank and drive in a few weeks at least so i gotta check the law. Brian's never there's never funny. I feel like with your condition anytime you're behind the wheel you reliability. That's a good point. The age of hooper and left. I understand what's going on with cova these days. And that's maybe compromise things but why is there any excuse to drive drunk. You mean everyone having easy access to uber accent because people are very cheap car ride. People still don't wanna leave their car like across town. Plus you know what. I don't know about themselves out and like the aca ally in particular especially in neighborhoods where there's bars and stuff. They have strict like no parking after two. Am so let's see. Do good ole boy. I've noticed this all the time and infuriates me. Let's go to a bar. You have a few drinks not really anticipated. And the next thing you know like i was taking newburgh and then you go out to. You know to get the stuff that you need for your car. You look up at the sign and it says no parking and an tollway like what the fuck why two. Am why right when the bars laid out. Are you not allowed to park there anymore. Just the magic hour. Nobody part two to six. Let's go to a bar in this zone over that someone's vehicle. Somebody's view all right bars. Are you not allowed. It only one and i think i'm fine there now. Brian days test out that they didn't even own up any more he moved. He moved the nasty. But that bar closed. Because the kuban so are are you talking about. Never another round. Thomas vinton berg. Hey brian you have not seen the celebration have you. I have not seen the celebration. I know that has been submitted as denmark's submission for best foreign film with the idol. And i don't see it getting a nod but who knows i mean it's not it's not nearly It's not about the time nearly enough. It's not Doesn't have enough social commentary political as just some jackasses. Join to make our life a little spicier with booze with sounds fun all right about every all wrapped up on this one. We are wrapped wrapped guys good news. So if you're a member next you'll hear top-five stock market scenes listening to the regular feed top-five stock market scenes can be heard friday. I don't know about you anderson. I put a lot of research into this one because the stock market is something. I don't understand completely. I learned a lot. I learned a bunch. Yeah i was not anticipating a lesson. But i got one listen to to clueless idiots talk about things. I don't know about this friday. Hey hey we were former. Were former clueless idiots. Now i feel like i'm ready to go out there and the best we have at least a clue Thanks everyone for being a listener. Special patron listeners. Giovanni thanks for your help with gambling. Promised we're going to get to it next week. Right or an sorry dexter episode. We'll do that on the next episode. jordan wolf. Mitch burn. Well we are separating these out because one does the listener. I don't care the least we can do is thank him every episode. They do a lot of good point. That's a really good point. Thanks jordan wolf and mitch burns my call for keeping track of all of our Gambling stats and of course robert. Jura cincy robert jared since the climb. That's right why would we end up. Next is the painted wagon. Thanks to our friend tyler mayor. So thanks tyler. Mayor forgave site. That's a two hour and forty five minute movie which we will tackle For next week's episode bad timing doing the patriot bonus episode next week so got a lot of work. The painted wagon wagon painted y. Throw to me darling. His nicole paint your wagon paint wagons. Right yeah all and we see stars of course stars wag buddy Until next time everyone i. I'm still reeling from calling it. The painted wagon patriarchate. Paint your wagon for what over van gogh.

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October 2020 Trailers (Special Episode)

Piecing It Together Podcast

44:59 min | 10 months ago

October 2020 Trailers (Special Episode)

"Thursday all right, welcome to another episode of piecing it together the podcast need to take a look at a new movie and try to figure out what movies inspired it. And today on the show is another one of our special trailer Roundup episodes. We've been doing these for the last couple of months at the beginning of the month looking ahead to some of the movies that are coming up and so we don't know for sure if we'll cover all these in full episodes but we picked six of October is releases to do a quick little discussion about based on the trailer and try to guess what puzzle pieces might be involved with these particular movies so khong Gennaro's is of course joining me again for this one. You know Jason he's been on the show a bunch and you also known from awesome movie or which you should be listening to if you're not make sure to go check out awesome movie here, but he is back again. We had a great time talking about these movies and I just love adding this little trailer thing to the whole lineup of what piecing it together includes between the breaking it apart episodes the missing pieces episodes special interview ones and then of course just our main episode, so it's great to have all these little extra things to be able to, you know, keep things exciting and interesting and fresh and I do hope you're enjoying peace and get together. I've been getting a lot of great feedback lately. So if you do enjoy the show, we would love your reviews you can rate in u.s. Over on Apple podcast or podchaser you could also just tweet it as we just love hearing from you or join our Facebook group popcorn and puzzle pieces where we continue the conversation about Movies we talk about here on the show and oh, I guess it would help of a gave you the Twitter handle, huh? So you could tweet at us this is episode. I don't know. We have a hundred forty-four Reagan episodes adding in all these specials were probably close to two hundred if not over 200 at this point. So you should know our Twitter Handle by now, but if you don't it's at piecing pod, so tweeted us follow us share with us do all that stuff. We really appreciate the support. So with all that said we got a lot of piecing it together coming your way this month October, but also I am going to keep telling you guys about my new album David Rosen that's just self-titled. It's my sixth album and it comes out October 4th and next week October 2nd Friday, October 2nd I have actually I guess that's this week. It's later this week. I'm recording us a couple of weeks ago, but I have a special commentary episode of piecing it together dead. Where I talk about the new album while the music is playing and you're going to be the first people to get a chance to listen to this new album. So I'm really excited to share that with you. The album will be available on iTunes. It'll be available on Amazon on bandcamp everywhere music is available also for streaming on like Spotify and apple music and all that. There's also going to be a limited edition CD you go to my website by David Rosen. Com to find out how to order that although I will tell you the best way to order that is on my band camp profile, which is David Rosen. Bandcamp.com. And if I order it on Friday October 2nd band camp isn't going to take any cut from the sale. So I got to tell you I would appreciate that. So if you're listening to this and you're thinking I like that Dave guy, he plays his music at the end of every episode of piecing it together. It's cool tracks. I like that, you know thinking that you want to check out this new album this Friday set yourself a reminder this Friday, October 3rd. Can buy the CD over at bandcamp, they will not take any cut and be able to you know, put that money towards the new music videos some new music promotion trying continue to get this music out there and the music feeds into the podcast the podcast feed into the music and it's just a whole circle of promoting the stuff that I am apart of awesome job here too. Oh, yeah new album coming out special special episode of piecing it together on Friday October 2nd playing the new album and lots more people together coming up. So make sure you're subscribed and let's get into this conversation talking about some of these movies coming out in October. Jason Harris is back with us to look at some more movie trailers. How you doing Jason? Oh Dave fine. That's that's good. I'm happy to hear that. You're fine. Fine is a good job. Yeah, and these trying times these weird strange times, you know, I think people have been enjoying these trailers shows that you and I have been doing and so it's time to look forward to Thursday October and some more trailers. We got six more lined up like we've done these last two months and obviously we've got a lot of Halloween themes, you know, horror kind of stuff but also a lot of other just totally random things thrown in the mix like the War With Grandpa, which will get too soon enough, but I think you know, we're going to have plenty to talk about we might as well just jump right in to these movies we're going to do them chronologically of release date again, like we've done the last two months and starting not with a really halloween-themed but a very strange looking movie and all she a documentary which is something we don't really cover too often here on the show, but it's called Dick Johnson is dead. It's coming to Netflix October 2nd and it looks like a weird. But sweet kind of story about a woman dealing with her father's dementia, and so they set out to film re-enactment. So to speak of what his impending death might be like, what do you think about this one? I'm really excited for this Dave. As you know, I'm a huge documentary fan and I try to push you to cover more documentaries on my mom podcasts and this year has been I would say better your documentary was a narrative film wise at least at the top of the Heap right now, you know, it's not been some good stuff right not a ward off in yet. So we'll see how that all shakes out. But this looks great this count me in you know, like I'm excited for this. So yeah, and I mean part of the reason we haven't done many documentaries is it's hard to really say when when a documentary is inspired by other films as much as we'd love to cover it on the show, you know, but but this one, I don't know. It's such a weird concept that I'm Think it's probably going to be uniquely situated where maybe we could cover it. I think so. I mean I was able, you know to find a few things that it reminded me of bolts documentary wise and narrative film wise. So if you want me to jump in I can yeah. What do you got? The first one was like you said it's about an older man dealing with Alzheimer's or dementia. And so I thought of a really great documentary, which was that about famed singer Glen Campbell. I'll be me and they filmed him as his memory was going way downhill and he was still touring and pretty powerful piece. Have you seen that movie? I haven't know it sounds good. Yeah, you should definitely check that one out right on. What else do you got for this one? Let's do all back and forth. Okay. Let's see. There's documentary very revered. I I haven't watched yet, but it's from years ago called wage. First cousin once removed similar about a I think it was about a documentarian following his cousin the the same personality Edward wage only and it's about him losing his memory the two others I had was and it's kind of funny cuz we always kind of joke about this. I put Groundhog Day in there because I think that, you know the time Loop and losing track of time and what time means it feels like that and and also there was like in this in this preview like a monologue as of like different ways that he dies and that of course reminds me of Groundhog Day a little and then the last one Dave one documentary about a amazing performer at the end of her life was Elaine Stritch. Just shoot me and I think she knew it was coming to the end and this was going to be like her last kind of Salvo for the entertainment world and Thursday. That kind of had resonance for me. I like it. Good good ones. I also was thinking about Groundhog's Day as possible a possible influence. You know, it's just Groundhog Day. Everyone says Groundhog's Day. I actually a hundred percent knew that and it still came out of my mouth the wrong way. I don't know man. I anyway the other the other movies that I thought of while while watching this one of them back in Charlie Kaufman territory. I thought of Synecdoche New York just this kind of strange but but funny look at just the you know in eligibility of death and trying to kind of grasp it and deal with it in a strange unique kind of way which I think you know, the the character that Philip Seymour Hoffman is playing is trying to make his Mark in such a you know, such a strange and unique way and here we are also being very creative in the way that we're dealing with the the finality of dead. And then the other one this is a completely completely completely different tone of movie. But I just thought of Deadpool and how once Ryan Reynolds Deadpool figures out his thoughts hold power how he's just dying over and over again and we're getting that whole kind of Montage of all of the death that this character is going to go through. Yeah. I think those are all good pieces and also Dave movies that we've talked about in the past even as recently as I'm thinking of ending things Charlie Kaufman and we're Palm Springs, which we covered and that kind of does that death time Loop over over it and all has pieces there. I didn't see camera person which was the filmmakers first movie. Did you see that movie? I haven't I know it's got a great reputation to it. Yeah, we should probably watch that before. This one comes out Dave. I think that would be a good plan. I'm going to attempt to do that. Although it's terrible. I am it's a Christian Johnson is at her name right? That's wage. The yeah Kirsten John's that's the filmmaker. It looks good, man. So, all right. Well staying in Netflix territory, but with a slightly different tone we move on to the next entry in Adam Sandler's huge Netflix lineup of of these movies. He makes and makes Incredible amounts of money for Iraq. It's called hubee Halloween comes out on October 7th, and it's about this Oddball in the small town who's always trying to I guess protect his town during Halloween and now it turns out there's actual monsters for him to protect the town from this looks like he is really making good on his promise. When he said if he didn't win the Oscar last year, he would make the worst movie ever, but that being said the trailer did make me laugh a few times. I'm really excited for it shamefully. So perhaps I was a big sandwich Banned back as a teenager and you know there have been a few times. He's redeemed himself after he's gone downhill with the movies and I still think his stand-up special was one of the best in the last few years, but you know, what I liked about this one is like they're leaning so hard into the concept. I think maybe maybe I'm just looking at it with rose colored sand Sandler glasses, but I feel like it could be good. Although it does worry me that we're not getting any Sandman but instead we're getting this. This is Shane man, you know so often but how old how old do you think he can be and still continue doing it? Yeah. This is more of their Bobby Boucher tennis, but you know, I mean he's gone up to that. Well a few times as it's he sure has yeah. Well, what do you got for your pieces here? Well, I think the most obvious one this takes place in Salem. It's a Halloween movie about saving the day home. Focus was the first one. I thought of I thought of Eight Crazy Nights because that was a Sandler movie where he really lean into a holiday one of the few months of good movies out there Dave and then I got two more. Of course. He's gotta save the day save the town. So you think of the absolute Christmas Classic Home Alone, you know for that and the last one was Grumpy Cat's worst Christmas ever because I saw this preview and I was like someone went in and they were like Adam Sandler's can do Halloween movie and the guys like yes Al Green Light it and then I just thought someone was like Grumpy Cat's going to do a Christmas movie like, yes, I'll Greenland don't you want to read the script not know don't worry about a script just just make the movie. It's perfect. It's it's it's exactly what we all want. That's what that guy said Yeah. Well, yeah. I hope it's more along the lines of Home Alone than Grumpy Cat's worst Christmas ever. Yeah, let's hope so that is a quite a wide range of puzzle pieces right there. I got to say you got Eight Crazy Nights in there. I will also use one Adam Sandler movie down in mine and that's Little Nicky which I think we're kind of, you know, we're in that territory also also, you know, just like the kind of more out there of Sanford there's various projects, you know, and I don't know it's funny when someone tries to kind of recapture something that they did in the past but goes to the ones that are generally not as celebrate, you know what I mean? I mean if we're going through the celebrated Canon of Adam Sandler, I like I said, I hope this leans more towards the Bobby Boucher kind of man child than the little kind of man child. So he will see the other one. I thought of was scream and the David Arquette character and this kind of you know, mentally challenged character who is dead. You know trying to help the police, but the police don't really want his help but he's obviously going to end up being kind of the hero of the series. So, you know that that whole kind of dynamic that crossed my mind and speaking of documentaries one of the documentaries that came out this year. David Arquette will not die about his return to professional wrestling and I heard how great it's not great. It did almost kill him off. So yeah, you know, all right. Oh, you know one other one that kind of just tone wise reminded me a little bit is the the series Sabrina the Teenage Witch just kind of reminded me in that and everything being surrounded, of course Salem and then like the whole just halloween-themed spread out for a whole thing. So just kind of reminded me to you know, it's weird Dave cuz like, you know, every I think people know we're in Las Vegas. I feel like this year. I'm looking forward. I like the holiday season. I feel like this year. I'm almost looking forward to it more maybe because we haven't had like real life in so long. The holidays are going to be real life. We're still not there obviously, but like just little things like holiday movies like I'm more excited for this than I should be I think well, hey any any chance to celebrate and not think about just the gloomy awfulness of reality that we've been in? Yes. Why? Why doesn't he make a move called Calvin coronavirus where he you know gets the coronavirus for us. So anything is possible that Netflix will give him money for any teach me Calvin covid-19 off. Well speaking of gloomy reality. It's time to move on to October 9th and a movie with Robert De Niro battling a little kid called The War With Grandpa, which is coming to theaters. I couldn't find information whether or not this is going to be on VOD the same day. I can't imagine they're going to try to move. Go back to the theaters for this yet, but I don't know. I couldn't find any definitive answer on that. But apparently he is battling a kid for the bedroom that they both want or something like that and it just looks absolutely ridiculous. And again like Hubie Halloween. I actually did laugh at the trailer a couple of times. I'm ashamed to say but what do you think about the yeah, I mean, it's your moves in with it is whatever daughter and her family I think and then you know, they give him the the kids bedroom and now the kid declares war with Grandpa and like when I was like, oh that makes sense for like a good children's book, you know, but now it's a movie and that's the end of my statement. That's all you got to say that covers it pretty much dead. This is a book though, right? This is like a very popular kids thing. I think that's what I got out of the preview. I didn't I didn't do any more research on it because my didn't want to yeah, and I'd down Blame you one bit Jason Harris. What do you got for your pieces for this? Well, the first one I thought of was Daddy's home right with Will Will Ferrell and and took you Mark Wahlberg where they're fighting, you know for the love of the family cuz that's got that kind of tone. And then you know, we've seen too narrow do this and this this character before but I was kind of thinking like this kind of did remind me a little of Grumpy Old Men because he teams up with the other old men, you know, one of which is Christopher Walken, I don't know and she's marron's in there and you know, Christopher Walken gives me another chance to do an impression on your shell Dave. So yeah, that was good. That was actually really good. You got it all in life. You know, I mean, I mean, you know, there's all those old man last trip shows but last two movies the two other movies, there's a really this one is not a comedy there is a movie called room a dog. 1995 with Phoebe Sweeney and Peter Falk about a old man who moves in with his grandkid and you know, they have to eventually see to eye to eye and the the grand kids and adults ready. So I think that's going to be something and then the last one where I'm hoping it goes Gran Torino. Nice. Yeah, I want to I want the Niro and his friends to you know, Raise Hell on this kid. Yeah, especially Christopher Walken I do hope this movie leans in and maybe you know, it's obviously off of these kid movie things. But I mean, I hope it leads into the absolute craziness. I I had four pieces. I I had home alone just cuz it kind of seems like they're going to set some traps and stuff like that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'll try to drive each other nuts that way and then also just you know, I mean, I would say this movie itself is is inspired by De Niro's birth. Yes, you know forays into these kid comedies, but I thought of the Vin Diesel one The Pacifier and you know just this tough guy having to deal with kids, you know, which these movies package so it's just such a simple concept whether or not the execution comes off can really, you know, totally make or break something like this cuz it's such a bad idea on paper. But hey, hopefully it's off. I mean, especially with those old guys being together in this. Yeah. I watched two of them this year. I watched my spy with Dave Bautista and and you know, just for the record. I have a I have a daughter who's young so a six-year-old. So if you're thinking I'm just going out and watching these for no reason you're mistaken my spies not bad simple concept and then the other one I watched was that one song on Netflix to sleep over where like Malin Akerman plays like a thief who's like in witness relocation and then her family has to save her and it's like who am I rooting for this month? Long Thief, you know, like or the other the other themes like that one was really bad. So this one like you said really simple. Hopefully they just keep it that simple where it's like two thousand people one-upping each other the whole time and that's it. So next up on our list a movie heading straight to premium VOD. It is called love and monsters. It comes out October 16th. And it looks like one of these kind of I don't know like kind of like a classic adventure set amongst monsters and kids and love and it it looks kind of fun to me. I mean, I have a sucker for mushy peas with big crazy monsters. What do you think about this one kind of yeah at first I was like what am I watching? But then it did become kind of fun. I'm like, all right. I'm in for this one where it's you know, the apocalypse happen and monsters take over and the kid has to like go find his girlfriend, right and he's probably like 16 and I think back of when I was in high school and had the apocalypse happened job. I tried to find my high school girlfriend. I'd have been like man. What a waste knowing how it turned out Dave like why did I do that? So yeah, you could have been foraging for supplies but no job after after, you know, it turned out as it did I should I should just given her to the monster. So yeah, nice diversionary tactic. Yeah, just feel like you you tried dealing with their monsters wage. What do you got for your thesis? I think we're probably going to overlap here. First one. I thought of of course was omby land apocalypse happens, you know and people have to cross the country finding their family. I thought of another zombie movie because it was a love story and I thought it was such a good movie which was warm bodies off that kind of like post-apocalyptic love comedy and then there's a show on Netflix that I watch with my little kiddo. They're called dog. Last kids on Earth and it's literally the exact same premise where it's like the apocalypse happens and some dudes like I gotta find the girl. I have a crush on and it's cartoon. So are you go. Those are my drill team that that's a good piece is definitely thought about Zombieland. Also thought of a quiet place just kind of the the tone of it seems similar the the the way it's shot kind of seem similar and a little bit of the creature design as well kind of seems similar. And another one I thought of was Cloverfield because we're in the midst of this big giant monster thing and the main story is trying to rescue the girl that he he's in love with sure and a quiet place is of course what they refer to your patreon as cuz you have so few subscribers wage thing. It's a joke bang. There's there's the audiogram for this episode right? Yep. Moving on to our next movie. This one's going to Hulu on October 23rd. It is called bad hair and it seems to be a creepy Horror concept about a I don't know. This one's kind of weird. It seems to be set in like a barber shop and there is some kind of like creepy Supernatural thing going on with them are here. What do you think about this? Did you watch dear white people Justin simeon's first movie. I have not know. I know it's very acclaimed. Yeah, it's really good. You should watch it. Like I I will before I see this thing. Yeah, I gotta watch the series but like I'm really excited about him as a filmmaker and you know, he's telling them stories through a very modern lens and I think you know this so continue on with that Rise of Black horror films, which I know was one of the reasons he was looking to do this job. Listen to interviews with him. He's really well-versed in film history. So I'm excited to see anything. He does and like this isn't necessarily like, oh what I would like if I could pick a project for him. But like if this is the project he wants to do I definitely want to see it. So yeah, it feels like it's going to be very satire and like, you know, so that that at least leaves the like leaves open for like a lot of influence a lot of interesting things, even if it seems a little silly on paper. Yeah, but also it's like, you know, we as white dudes one that you fro you and one bald me like we really don't understand, you know, kind of black women's hair as so for us to kind of you know off the premise is definitely maybe a little outside of our normal but like, you know kind of with like leaves in this and that but like it's definitely something that I think Will Smith A wider audience than just, you know people who go to the beauty shops like that men window white black whatever, you know, so it looks fun. It looks fun. So what do you got for a PCM? Obviously I picked get out because that kind of kicked off this Renaissance of black horror films Jordan Peele Peele. I pick the Chris Rock documentary good hair, which is all about the importance of black women's hair weaves different styles. What what means what in that kind of world of beauty and what's important and then the last one I picked was a horror movie about a different body depart teeth, which is about a fighting vagina that That mercilessly takes its victims. Vagina style that is certainly another body part that could go violent and scary in real life too depending on who you know, so I did not have teeth on my list. Although I see where you're coming from. Certainly. I I definitely had considered get out especially, you know, just the kind of General creepy Vibe. It has the same kind of not just the Caspian predominantly African-American, of course, but also just the the creepiness Factor it seems to be coming from a similar place of everybody's kind of all smiles and everything is just a little off in a way instead of it being like big jump scares or anything like that. So I just I thought that kind of similar, you know scariness and then also yeah good hair obviously is a good one there. I also thought of in fabric TJ Peter Strickland 824 horror film about a killer dress which again another kind of strange thing to be a killer blank, but you know down In that same realm of fashion kind of hair exists in so I thought of that one too. So Dave you have any real-life vagina horror stories? You want to share with us moving on to our next movie on October 23rd as well. This one's coming to Apple Plus. Finally something came apple plus our subscriptions will actually get used it is on the Rocks reteaming Bill Murray with Sofia Coppola also co-produced by 8:24. I believe and change. It looks like a sweet father daughter kind of relationship movie. It's kind of like a I don't know like kind of a straightforward comedy almost in a way. What do you think of this? Yeah, it looks a little lighter than some of the Fairway We Know Sofia Coppola for and it's Dad and a daughter and you know, they seem to get along fine. Although they you know, there seems to be a few birth. Choose between them, right and the dad and the daughter think that maybe the daughter's husband, which is Rashida Jones and that the husband played by Marlon Wayans might be cheating on her and then they start to follow him and you know to find out the truth. So hey hurry, it looks fun. You know, we're going to watch anything. Sofia Coppola does exactly exactly and I mean, especially that that team up coming back together after all these years. I it looks so light like you said, but at the same time there's no way I'm going to miss this. Yeah kind of felt like it's like Noah baumbach was on valium or something like that, you know, so that that works absolutely. Is that the first of your pieces here? No, it's not but one film that I've talked to you about and I could probably on your podcast before the day-trippers Greg mottola, which is a great movie and we should be covering it on some either yours. My podcast I keep pushing for it, you know. Yeah and it is about a family that thinks the husband is having an affair and they follow him to New York and see what's what and it's kind of like, you know know this leads to this leads to this and the dialogue is so smart and funny and the casting is so good of all the movies we've mentioned today. I feel like maybe that's the one that I really want to recommend because everyone knows home alone and stuff like that which is still a great movie. Right? But the day-trippers is awesome. I love that movie another movie that I love which of course involves Bill Murray and some type of different love triangle was Rushmore. So this one involves a husband bought a daughter and a father that one of course involves a married man a student and the teacher so it's different obviously paternal love, but I'm excited to see anything else. Bilberry does ever and it's nice that they're reteaming Sofia Coppola and Bill Murray. Sure. Yeah. Absolutely. I had thought of Rushmore as well and the day-trippers is on my watchlist. I know we've talked about maybe doing like a missing pieces episode on it or something like that. I definitely am looking forward to watching that the other ones I had I like we've been saying this looks strangely light but I thought of like a Nancy Meyers thing like maybe like Something's Gotta Give but instead of being a you know relationship between the older guy and the the the Aging but still younger woman, that's a father-daughter relationship instead. So kind of that kind of tone. I also thought of Easy A because of the just kind of took a quickness back-and-forth relationship between this father and daughter which and easy a is Emma Stone and Stanley Tucci, which is really fun kind of not realistic but fun portrayal dead. Of a relationship between that is a fun movie and Stanley Tucci plays the husband and day-trippers that they're trying to track down so nice. There you go. There's connections all around there so long right on well, that's our six movies to look forward to in October. And of course, there are plenty of others, you know that we could have covered here but I think that gives us a nice little list to to look forward to as for last month's for our September episode the movies we had talked about we talked about critical thinking the owner is I'm thinking of ending things the devil all the time could jillionaire and Enola Holmes those last two still aren't out there coming out soon at the time of recording this but what about those first four, did you watch any of those? I did watch Joe the first four and I think I'll be watching Enola Holmes this week and two jillionaire is just going to theaters isn't it for now, or I think it actually will be on VOD. There was like, yep. Kind of like special screening that you could sign up for and it's sold out right away. But I think that that is probably a sign that they'll have it on VOD as well. That's exciting. That's good. I watched I'm thinking of ending things and I watched what was the one you mentioned? Oh the devil all the time and I liked I liked them both. Like I didn't understand I'm thinking of ending things. I think a lot of people feel that way once it was explained to me. I kind of understood it but I don't necessarily think it realized that in the film like what it was what it was going for bath and it kind of fell apart for me and act three, but I know people love it and maybe I'll watch it again someday. I did like the first two thirds of it quite a bit. Okay devil all the time. I also like I think that's the first like kind of like a oscar-bait drama of the season. I don't think it'll get any nominations, but I did like how kind of spring Calling and kind of encompassing of this kind of coal miner town and you know just kind of area it it it takes place in although I do think they could have easily cut 20 to 30 minutes and had just says an effective movement. I think that's fair. And yeah, those are the two that I watched as well. Of course, I loved I'm thinking of ending things we did do an episode own now. So everyone listening if you haven't heard it yet, make sure to check that out. Not sure if we'll do what on the devil all the time possibly but I enjoyed it quite a bit. Like you said it is a little long. It's a little convoluted too. I think but some great performances packed in there and you know, I tend to like any movie that's critical of religion. So I know you're going to say any movie with Robert Pattinson, I boy I think that's probably a fair statement as well too. I I don't know that I've not liked anything. He's been in Sofia Wylie. I haven't seen them really. I mean I kind of did wage Watch them half asleep, you know, but I watch them enough to say that I've watched them. But all right, whatever ya know those were good. And you know, maybe we'll do a quick add on Innova homes this week before you put this out. Yeah. We'll see what happens. So hey Jason, why don't you tell people about awesome movie or whatever else you got going awesome movies a year season 5 were just wrapping it up. We're moving into season six soon, which is exciting love an announcement on what that year is going to be but we are finishing 1977 right now, by the time this is released will only have really just two to three more episodes out there each each season. We take a different year. We break it down why it was an awesome movie here. We do the best picture some other Award winner of box office flop both you and my co-host Josh Bill get your own pics and I get my own pick in there. And then we just cover some random things future called classic documentary foreign film dead. I'm really proud of it and you're doing a good job producing a Dave. Thank you so much. And everybody's check that out. Yeah, it's all it's all over this. Wherever you get this podcast. We're also on the web awesome, awesome movie. You're on Facebook and Instagram awesome movie pod on Twitter. Objects. Narrows comedy on Facebook and Instagram Jay Harris comedy on Twitter and my website go for Jason is the hubee Halloween of websites that it is that it is. So Jason as always thank you so much for being here. I'm glad we're continuing to do this series and we will see what's happening in November cool. Hey, I'm Josh Bell. I'm Jason Harris. Hey, Josh, we're friends in real life. We're also closed on this new podcast called awesome movie here where we take a look back at an awesome year for movies and do a deep dive looking at Movies including the Best Picture Winner the biggest movie at the box office. As future cult classics and more including the biggest flop and this season we're doing Nineteen Ninety Four. You can find us wherever you get your podcast that could be apple podcast Stitcher or Spotify. We're all over the place as well get Austin movie you're on all the socials and awesome movie your.com. So please like us subscribe. And if you do like us give us 5-star rating cuz we love you. All right. So I hope you enjoyed that conversation about some of the movies coming out in October 2020 and you know, there's actually another movie I found out about just woke mean obviously, there's plenty more movies coming out in October but this one in particular looks really great. It's coming out October 9th. It's called The Wolf of snow Hollow starring written and directed by Jim Cummings wage. And I don't know it just looks really good. I'm really excited for this one and would have included it on our Roundup if I knew about it before recording time, but hey, we can't cover everything right, but maybe we'll get the cover this one off on a full episode later this month. So thanks as always to Jason Harris for stopping by make sure you are listening to awesome movie here there. I believe when this goes up they're going to be on the final episode of their fifth season and going into their sixth season and that is awesome. There is so much awesome movie or to check out if you haven't. Yep. All five of those original seasons and the new one coming up is going to be really exciting. I I can't quite give away the year yet. But the the answer to what the next year will be is coming up on off their season end epilogue episode. So definitely keep an eye out for that. And if you want to hear even more awesome movie here and even more pieces back together and more of my music. You should check out our patreon. I have a produced by David Rosen patreon, which combines all of the music and podcast related stuff. I've got going on into one big patreon. It's patreon.com by David Rosen and on there. There are bonus episodes from awesome movie are there are Advanced episodes of piecing it together off and for a limited time only if you sign up for at least the $5 level of the patreon, you will get a copy of my new album month. For free as part of the sign up as a bonus. Now, of course, I told you at the top of the show to go buy the album on bandcamp and I appreciate that if you do that because that is a great way to buy that album life and certainly get you know, my full share without bandcamp getting any of their cut but I'm especially excited to grow this patreon because the bigger it grows the more subscribers we get off more content. We are going to make for it. I will definitely be able to get the awesome movie your guys to make more content for it. I will be able to rope in some great guests for some extra bonus piecing it together stuff off always no beans we're going to record more stuff. And of course, I have a lot of other music I can release stuff that is not on albums yet that I can start putting together some special page. Only exclusive releases. So go sign up, we really appreciate the support and you will for this limited time only get a free copy of my new album. If you do sign up for the fiber Jack, Outer level on up they go up to $20. I think starts at $1 though. If you don't want the free thing and you just want to throw those support our way, we appreciate that too. So she can other than that follow us on social media at piecing pod. We appreciate every time you share our podcast. It really helps to get the word out and join our Facebook group popcorn puzzle pieces where we continue the conversation about all the movies we talk about here on the show. And that about does it for today. I'm going to close this one out with the song apply from my new album. This is the new music video that's out there. I'm sure I played it recently on the show, but I do want you to go check out this music video because it's super cool. It was created by this visual effects artist need to buy a Steiner and it's just a really cool pulsating kind of ambient track. Although it does pick up in the second half, but I I'm really proud of this piece of music. I'm proud of the video game. Well, you could find it on my website by David Rosen, or on my YouTube channel and I will be playing tracks from this new album David Rosen a lot in the coming weeks as I continue to promote this thing. So if I bought it recently here it is again, this is X. off off off off off off an All Points West production produced by David Rosen in Las Vegas

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Emily in Conversation with Kirsten Johnson

The Nocturnists

36:43 min | 3 months ago

Emily in Conversation with Kirsten Johnson

"At the doctrine est careful to ensure that all stories comply with healthcare privacy. Laws details may have been changed to ensure patient confidentiality all views expressed. Are those of the person speaking and not their employer. This episode of the nocturne is conversation is sponsored by mental health and quilt metal. Health provides support and guidance to individuals family members and friends facing short term health issues or managing a serious illness. Learn more at mental health dot com. That's m. e. t. t. l. e. health dot com. Quilt is on a mission to give every family caregiver the skills and support they deserve starting with expert lead on demand video. Classes quilt is recruiting. Founding experts from fields like geriatrics and palliative care now visit quilt can help dot com to learn more. The nocturne is made possible by the california medical association and the patrick j mcgovern foundation. I'm emily silverman and your listening to the nocturne est conversations. Today i am thrilled to be hosting filmmaker. Kirsten johnson kirsten is a documentary filmmaker. Who's worked as a cinematographer on over forty films in over eighty countries. She's also a documentary film director. Most well known for her film camera person which captures the relationship between her and the subject. She filmed during her years working behind the camera. Per second documentary. Dick johnson is dead. Premiered twenty twenty at the sundance film festival where it received a special award for innovation in nonfiction storytelling. It's a film that's dedicated to her father and explores the topics of aging dementia and mortality. Before i talked to kirsten. Let's listen to a brief excerpt from her film. Dick johnson is dead. My dad had been living alone going to work and to church faithfully ever since my mom died. My brother and i were both thousands of miles away. And despite what. We'd already been through with moms alzheimer's we didn't notice anything until it was almost too late. We started getting calls from his friends. Then his secretary he was double booking patients making mistakes on their prescriptions. He had driven his car at high speed through a construction site and then kept going five miles home. Four flat tires. Every carl felt like an alarm bell and even though should have understood perfectly just couldn't bear to hear it again. Thank you so much for being here. Kirsten so delighted to be here. So we're really excited to have you here and was reading that the idea for this project came to you in a dream. So is that true. Oh yes it is. It is totally true. Yes i had a dream in. Which i saw a man. I didn't recognize in a casket and he sat up all of a sudden. And he said. I'm dick johnson and i'm not dead yet and dick johnson's my dad. I've made this film with him. Called dick johnson is dead. That's currently streaming on netflix. So people can watch it. And i love that. People can watch all around the world and he and i had already been through an experience with my mother's alzheimer's but when i had the dream think my father's dementia had already begun an i didn't yet recognize it. Basically the dream functioned as a wake up. Call for me and so was that the natural response was. My dad isn't getting any younger. How do i help him. And then turning to film as the way of moving through that since film had already been such a big part of your life. Yes so i had made minimum called camera person in two thousand sixteen and camera person is in some ways a memoir but basically i went back into footage that had shot on behalf of other filmmakers and i reordered it and looked at it as a whole in relation to what i had experienced as a camera person behind the camera and much of what i've filmed over time has been related to questions of social injustice questions of violence and having filmed in the aftermath of five different genocides in five places around the world having filmed in over eighty six countries. I have heard and witnessed a lot of human trauma not unlike doctors and caregivers or people who encounter other humans at moments of crisis in their lives at scale and i had sort of reached this point where i couldn't continue filming. I sort of film too much and hadn't processed hardly any of it. So camera person. Was this attempt to engage with all the ethical questions. I had about documentary camerawork. But it's a very serious film. It's a very sober and serious film. That's probably one laugh in the whole movie and it was very well received critically and it's a very experimental film. I don't speak in it really. It's just the footage itself. And you learn to know me through seeing the footage that i have filmed and the experience of making. It liberated me in all these ways. It sort of made me feel free about how i could work with. Cinematic language to engage with the questions. That are the most meaningful to me. So i'm going deep into this. Because i feel like this is shared territory and feel like a doctor or caregivers life. They're always these really high stakes. You're always faced by the ethics of how you engage with the people that you're carrying for treating and you're always being faced by your own lack of control even though you have all of this knowledge and experience and incredible huge sort of institutions. That support you and back you. You're still sort of face to face with these impossible situations and then you do that over and over and over again and you're left with all those feelings that you don't necessarily have time to engage with so all of that to say that i had been through a lot and a lot with my mother's dementia and when my brain gave me the wake up call that maybe my dad had dementia too again that i have to go through this again. I had this very strong reaction. Which was i must do something differently. I won't be able to bear this and so part of that was like i would have deal with this with humor. We going to defy death. We're going to mock it. We're going to laugh at it so the idea was going to make this film in which we work with stunt people and kill my father over and over again until he really dies for real i was going to be really irreverent about death. Well it turns out. I i needed to be really reverend. Dementia and death love this analogy between the documentary filmmaker going out into the world and bearing witness to trauma at mass scale. And the doctor or the caregiver going into a hospital and bearing witness to trauma at mass scale. And i love what you say about the decision to pivot from the serious and sober work of our towards something more humorous and i want to get to that in a bit but before we do. Your father was also a doctor. Tell us about his doctor life. So my family is generational seventh day adventists and seven. They haven't is a religion that was founded towards the end of the nineteenth century and from the beginning of its founding. It was really interested in healthcare and medicine and healthy living. So if you're a seventh day adventists you're hoping to be a doctor or a nurse or a caregiver or a teacher or missionary and those are the professions and my father's father elmer johnson came from you know working poor family who didn't have money and elmer realized he wanted to be a doctor but the family couldn't afford it so he worked all of his life as a gardener as a sort of manual labor with the wish the lost wish of being a doctor and his first child was a girl and she became a nurse. This was early when it was hard for women to become doctors and then my father was born twelve years later and apparently he was going to be a doctor from birth. It was sort of like. He was going to embody my grandfather's impossible. Wish to become a doctor and one of the interesting fun facts that you learned about my dad in the film that he was born with no toes and we don't know why this happened. We believe it might have been some medication that my grandmother took when she was pregnant. But it's never been verified. And so he was sort of this miracle baby who was born twelve years after the first child and he was a boy and he was missing his toes and he was going be a doctor but when my dad did go to the adventist medical school that he went to i think he knew he didn't have any choice about being a doctor so it was just a given in his life but i think in some ways he was drawn towards psychiatry because it was a different way of being a doctor and i mean he's totally amazing stories like at the time in medical school. One of the doctor said to him. You know there are two kinds of doctors that aren't really doctors and are the most contemptible and that's abortionist psychiatrists. But my dad loved talking to people and the other thing. That's hilarious is my dad. Wanted to sit down after doing really long rotations. His feet hurt and psychiatry. Was the one specialization where it can really count on being able to sit down all the time. So i think it was the furthest from me doctor and it was the most comfortable where the big determines his choice but he loved psychiatry and he i think always had questions and doubts about his capacity to quote. He'll mental illness but he said if anything might heal it will be the relationship that heels that there repair work that can be done in a relationship that can be trusted and counted on I wanted to touch on what you said earlier about really wanting to come at this topic with humor and irreverence and you stage his death multiple times but they're not really medical deaths. It's not like having a pneumonia are going in and dying of sepsis or all of these ways that people with dementia tend to actually die but there are these accidental deaths like the air conditioner falling and spurting blood and things like that. Could you just speak a little bit more to that. Like why was it so important for you to make this playful. So you're helping me clarify this and see this. They needed to be sudden-deaths. I think because dad. And i are so familiar with the gradual death. We had watched my mother dying for seven years and we knew that dementia was going to do that to him too. So i think the thing. That's really fun about this experience in this process for me is allowing the contradictions of my feelings. And i am deeply grateful for every moment. I had with my mother and i'm also you know just like wildly angry. Dementia and alzheimer's for stripping. Her away from us and it was excruciating. It was brutal it went on and on it was relentless. So i think there's some crazy wish fulfillment in like just like let it be sudden. Let's get this over with. But on a certain level. Like i have made so many different films about poverty rate them genocide sexual violence all kinds of deeply serious subjects. I really care about. But i know people don't want to take their medicine. Nobody wants to see it. It's too painful it's too hard. It's too shameful in some ways like we're still dealing with racism in this country like to acknowledge that is shameful. So there's a way in which with this film i was like. Why would anybody want to watch a movie about dementia. Like what kind of masochist are you. And so part of. It was like to come up with this idea of killing. My dad was just like so in your face. It's so absurd so wrong that it's sort of right in a way that jackass or herald mod or monty. Python is so that was part of my motivation. But i think also. I needed to find some way for us to laugh at this but also like doing. The deaths met my deepest fear that he will die. He will disappear for me. I could keep facing it and then like having it not be true so that i have is funeral and get to hug him. Afterwards he dies. And i get to pick him up and we get to laugh about it. That's what you don't get to do in life. I didn't to hug my mom. After her funeral i think movies can they can hold a lot. They can hold a surprising amount. And that's what. I find so exciting about how long it takes to make them. And the way that you make and remake them in the edit room and they teach you to make them it was remarkable this idea of sudden death or the gradual death the slow fade away without even trying. That idea starts to resonate throughout the film for some reason in this observational documentary footage. I have of my family are always turning the lights on and off and this sort of light switch of life going on or off. We founded in the footage. And all these different places. My mom does it from some very old footage where she has alzheimer's my little children do. My dad does it. But then we have this sort of problem. We had to solve with the film where he had done. A fake funeral for my dad. My original idea was that i wanted to have him in an open casket at the front of the church while we were doing this. Fake funeral. Well i told that to my father. He laughed he loved. It told it to my brother and my brother said over my dead body. You're not doing that. And but then that constraint. I tried to make this film. With respect for my father like respecting his agency even despite the fact that he had dementia to draw on fifty five years of knowing him and his sense of humor etc. But i also you know there are other people whose and perspective matter and one of those is my brother and i'm not going to make this film in contradiction to my brothers needs and wishes and so i had to respect my brother when he said you can't do that but then that gave us this cool solution. Which was the day before we did the funeral in the church space. We brought an open casket. We lit it in the same way. We put my dad in and we filmed lots of different takes with him and then later we used green screen technology. And we cut that casket into the scene. Well the wonderful editor. I worked with those beggar. It was just obsessed with. He needed audiences to know that trickery. He wanted that to not be a question that people were left asking the end. Like was he really. There was he not there. So he had to do something with that casket but he couldn't figure it out and then it sort of at the eleventh hour the very very very end of the film. We were trying to figure out that scene and cutting and cutting and all of a sudden. Now's came up with this situation. Where suddenly the casket is up there in the front of the rim but then sorts of starts to fritz a little bit and then it just fades away and the space is empty and i saw nails are metaphor about death. Does it flicker go out suddenly or does it fade away in his like. It hadn't even occurred to him but we had been sort of trafficking in this metaphor in all of these different ways throughout the film and then he just did it with this image. So you experience it as a viewer and that's what i love about. Cinema sort of bring these thoughts and ideas to it but then finds magical emotional ways to express them. I wanted to talk a little bit about the fantasy scenes. Because they're so fun and what it may may think of. as a physician is palliative. Care is a new field. Everybody needs palliative care and often. It's introduced late into the course of people's illness. And when the palliative care team finally arrives and they sit down with the patient some of the first questions that they ask are in your remaining years. What are your goals. What are your hopes. What are your dreams. If i could imagine one for you. What would you wish for. These are questions that the medical team almost never asked like. Somebody might say. Well i really want to go to disneyworld with my grandchild and suddenly all of the care is oriented around that one goal and everything just makes sense whereas before it was more scattered or somebody might say my goal is to go back to mexico and die in mexico and nobody would have known that if not asked and so these questions that you ask him like if you could have one wish what would it be. And he says to have toes and then you're able to make that happen for him through these fantasy scenes. I guess i'm wondering like it just reminded me a lot of the healthcare profession. Trying to do that wish fulfillment for people before they die. And is that the lens through which you were viewing that or is that what you're trying to do. I think this movie is wish fulfilment for me. My wish was for my father's immortality. I wish that my father never die. So i could all of this effort into something cinematic meaningful and also. I've gathered all this evidence of who he was. But i think we often sort of don't allow ourselves wishes because when you say them you're also acknowledging fears or the potential loss and what's interesting with the camera bringing the camera into a situation in some ways is bringing loss into a situation because a camera brings the future into the room it brings death into the room we are going to create these images together but at some point in time we who animate these images will no longer be alive but the images will be here and this will be what remains of you. Buster keaton was dead long before i met him in cinema but he's incredibly alive in cinema. So you all bring death into the room you caregivers and doctores as much as you're trying to bring health and life and healing into the room and medicine into the room right. Your presence brings death into the room and it brings fear of loss into the room. I do the same thing as documentary camera. Person you talked about when the caregiver comes into the room or the healthcare. We're comes into the room. The tone shifts and that signals something that symbolizes. Something and one thing i noticed about this film is how little you medicalising him and how little the dementia was medical is. There was really only one scene that took place in a medical setting. And i was laughing so hard. I was really watching it last night. Where there's that woman and she does the tests and she asked him. Here are five words. I'm going to distract you. And then i'm going to ask you to recall them. And he can only recall one of the words and then the next shot it's like her back and she's typing into a computer and i was just like hooting because it's so emblematic of what healthcare has become and so i'm wondering. Was that intentional. That you wanted to keep this story out of the medical setting and really keep it more in. The home had all kinds of dreams and wishes about where this move was going to go and that and i did a trip to portugal during the course of it and we ended up eating this man who was a skin doctor. Who had this incredible office. That was like from the one thousand nine hundred thirties. Father been a doctor and then he'd inherited it and he had this amazing lithograph on his wall of people being unzipped from their skins and wanting new skins to be in and i was just obsessed with the idea of bringing my dad to this doctor and having him read the story of my father's skin and i tried so hard in my faltering portuguese and then with a translator to get this doctor to be willing film the scene because i just like how does this so amazing. And he wouldn't do it. He felt that it was unethical to film the scene with my father and that it wasn't what he did as a dermatologist. Actually to be sort of fortune teller about skin. But i in my mind. I wanted the scene so badly. I sort of wanted another doctors take on my dad like a deep psychological. Take on him. I'm not denying that that's complicated. Like is it okay. That i'm making a film with father while he has dementia a comedic film. That's a really real question. Is that okay. I think about what's special about my dad. When my kids were first born he came. I have twins and they were born prematurely. He came the first week and the he talked to them was so hilarious so respectful just like they were full human beings this revelation like. Wow he's done that for me my entire life but it reminded me of how he dealt with my mother with her alzheimer's he understood. She had a disease but he also understood. She was a brilliant person. And the person you loved like somehow. He managed to not be patronizing to her. Not medical is her. And i think unconsciously almost that sort of where i was coming from with my dad is like i want to respect him even if he's asked me the same question like five hundred times today i'm gonna answer it or i'm going to be playful with it but i'm gonna like i'm just gonna try to stay in zone of respecting him on his terms in the present moment. Yeah and i think a society. We're not very good. At respecting our elders at respecting people with cognitive impairment i think part of the whole covid pandemic was that it was affecting older populations and just the way that our society responded to that or didn't respond to that and the way that we view old people as not useful or not lovable or expendable. And how sad that is in. How in medicine geriatrics community is really trying to shape a different narrative around our elders and there was a moment in your film. That really reminded me of this which was when Dick goes to visit lolita his crush and they're flirting with each other. And he makes a joke about wanting to see her without her clothes on and she jokes about her sagging and then he says actually the wrinkles make it better because you have twice the surface area classic quite quite the come on joke and it was such a great example of how people when they're old like they still have a sense of humor and they still have their sexuality. I guess i don't really have a question about that. Just a comment. That i wanted to share. And then the other piece of that was in the scenes with you and your kids and your father just the really beautiful moments of family and in dementia. We talk a lot about the things that we lose and the things get stripped away. But i was wondering what do you and your kids gain by living with someone with dementia. Well both of your questions are around value in people right and i so echo you and i hear you about what we did at the beginning of this pandemic and we're still doing that. There's so much out there around. Who's expendable who don't want to see who suffering we don't wanna see who's physicality we don't wanna see and i think this societal levels whenever things are being hidden pay attention and whenever people are being hidden right people are being hidden in prison. People are being hidden in hospitals. I'm just always the mind of like pay attention to what were hiding. And i think that is arthur miller said about like. That's the work of art to reveal. What is deliberately being hidden and think this pandemic has revealed much to us about how interdependent we are and how quick we are to imagine each other expendable those of us who are close to a person whatever age they are and we love them. It is devastating. Their loss is devastating. But all of that is swirling around in this moment at scale. And i think we go back to that term right like this is unprecedented in human history. Not a global pandemic but that we all know about it that we can see images of it that we can all count the numbers together that we can see nations reshape. The story of what's happening that we can watch ones engage in different experiments about how to approach it see nations fail and nations succeed around the approaches and then have it all flip again. It's totally unprecedented. The only thing for me. That's familiar in some ways. The the nature of the grief like i do think it has parallels with when you have an extended death like happens with a degenerative disease. You have extended grief. You have an -ticipant tori grief. And i think we are all engaged in forms of anticipatory grief during this pandemic at the very beginning of the film. You say now. It's upon us the beginning of his disappearance and we're not accepting it and then we have marta. The caregiver who has accompanied ten different people in the last thirty years in their end of life experience. She says if you accept it it's easier and so i'm wondering. Do you think that the experience of making this film will make it easier to accept the loss of your dad when that happens. No way nope. I don't stand a chance and the gang and be steamrollered anyway am sitting here teary just because you're speaking about marta. And get this. My dad went into dementia care facility in august and he is now there and being very well taken care of and is comfortable though like to come back and live with me right brother like in a heartbeat but it is no longer possible well. Marta went on from working with my dad to work with a couple of a couple who are hundred and one and ninety seven through a long and complicated story and not marcus vault. They got covid fables recovered from covid. Marta has been in the hospital for the last four weeks at age fifty three fighting for her life. The great news is that she just got released from intensive care and we believe she's going to be fine. Knock on wood but like this is like this is the craziness of life and death and healthcare right like that. We have young healthcare workers who are dying before the people there taking care of like. Can you make it up to one hundred and one year old and the ninety seven year old both cove. and we're fine and martin has been wiped out. You gotta accept it well. None of us were accepting the idea that marta day. When i learned that. Marta was in the hospital. I was like no. This is not happening. I cannot accept this. And i think it's easier for a caregiver to say we've got to accept that a ninety seven year old person is going to die then the daughter of that ninety seven year old person and i think there are some people for each of us and it might just be ourselves right. I can't accept that. I'm gonna die or i can't accept the my mom's going to die and i think that is human. I think once we get like just a little bit out from it. We're like okay. It's acceptable it's natural that people die but if you are a lifetime entangled with the person or you just fell in love with someone no you are not exempt team that they're going to die no way and i'm not i'm still not accepting that my dad's gonna die you know even though i've practiced in a bunch of times and even though i am helped and comforted by the fact that we have this movie and that he will stay alive in this movie for my children in the future that his ineffable spirit is available to other people that i don't have to try to explain what that was. They don't have to explain. Why i'm so sad to lose it. It's like look at this magical person. i don't wanna lose magical person. He is a magical person. I mean even just like his smile and his laugh and his sweetness like it really comes through even for those of us who've never met him in real life and same with marta. I mean it was a very short scene with her. Since you extraordinary. I fell in love with her in your devastated by the idea that she might be sick with covid right. Maybe i'll leave you with one last question. I really love. The scene with mike was helping. Take down the shelves in your dad's office and you say to mike. We all carry our parents in us. What are you carry from your dad now. I would like to ask that question for you when dick johnson is dead. What will you carry forward from your dad. I aspire to the way he listens. And i have to say there's a quality to the way that you are asking questions of me that you have opened up some spaces and slowed me down and it reminds me of my dad. It's like you allow you allow the space. And the time to think. And i think the fact of being a doctor is to understand a little bit about the deep complexity of what it is to be alive and that understanding i think allows potentially for people to be there fuller selves publicly so respect to you and respect to my dad and i hope that i learned to allow more create more space in relation to other people. But i just wanted to thank you for making this film. I mean truly. I've never seen anything like it. And i think for everybody listening whether you're experiencing somebody in your family with dementia or just as a healthcare worker. This film will really really open you up. It's just so original. So i think probably should be mandatory viewing for all for all health care workers. Well nothing would make me happier. Because i have such gratitude and respect for healthcare workers. Well thank you so much kerstin. This has been such a joy. Thanks for listening. This episode of the nocturne is conversations was produced by head of story development. Atalay puzzle and edited and mixed by john oliver. Our executive producer is allie block. Our director of operations is rebecca groves and our original music is by yosef monroe. The nocturne this is made possible. By the california medical association. A physician led organization that works tirelessly to make sure the doctor patient relationship remains at the center of medicine to learn more about the cma visit cma. Docs dot org. Nocturne is also made possible by the patrick j mcgovern foundation a group of tech inspired global change makers optimus and visionaries advancing ai data solutions to create a thriving equitable and sustainable future for all. If you've enjoyed listening give us a rating and review on apple to contribute your voice to one of our upcoming projects or to make a donation to support our work. Visit our website at the nocturnal dot com. I'm your host. Emily silverman cnx time.

dementia dick johnson alzheimer Dick johnson patrick j mcgovern foundation emily silverman Kirsten johnson kirsten elmer johnson adventist medical school california medical association sundance film festival Kirsten netflix elmer carl sepsis pneumonia mexico
129: Breaking Rules with Victor Kossakovsky, Kirsten Johnson & Garrett Bradley

Pure Nonfiction: Inside Documentary Film

54:14 min | 5 months ago

129: Breaking Rules with Victor Kossakovsky, Kirsten Johnson & Garrett Bradley

"If you can live without filming. Those are the words of victor costco ski from his ten rules of documentary filmmaking. A i'm tom powers. And this is pure nonfiction. Each year doc. Nyc festival selects a shortlist of fifteen of the year's most notable feature documentaries on this episode. We hear from three of those directors kirsten johnson garrett bradley and victor costa kofsky. Even if you haven't seen all their films there's plenty to take away from this wide-ranging conversation. Kirsten was previously on this podcast. Five years ago talking about her film camera person. Her latest now on net flicks is called. Dick johnson is dead. It's a playful and profound film in which she creates fictional scenes imagining different ways. Her father might die. He plays himself. She kills me. multiple times. Resurrected day at this gear. Bradley was on the podcast. A few months ago discussing her new film time. That's available on amazon. Prime time traces over twenty years in the life of a new orleans mother named fox rich as she fights to get her husband rob out of prison of the eighteen next month. Man absolutely no idea what it means to have a father in the house. My third guest. Victor secorski grew up in russia and is known for ambitious projects. Like aqua rela in which you went to great lengths to portray the elemental force of water filming in the middle of ocean storms and dangerously close to melting icebergs. His new film. Gunda is told from the point of view of farm animals including a mother pig named gunda a one legged chicken and cows enjoying a romp in the fields. I can tell you. These three directors do not waste time with small talk our conversation weaves through big concepts central to their films mortality racism and the mass killing animals. If that sounds heavy. I can promise the talk is imbued with warmth and laughter. Intrude pandemic fashion. We were connected by zoom across three different time zones. Victor berlin kirstin in connecticut and garrett in california. I kicked off the talk by referring to victor's ten rules of filmmaking. He wrote this text. Fifteen years ago for a masterclass at the foot festival in amsterdam. Here's rule number two. Don't film if you want to say something. Just say it or write it film. Only if you want to show something or you want people to see something. I started by asking kirsten what that statement means to her first of all. Can i just say tom right on that. You're having these conversations small conversations with mike. And i'm kind of insanely honored to be here with garrett and vincent never you know never met you. Did i just say. Vincent vincent you got. Got it victor. We haven't met. I don't even know how to say your name right yet. But victor garrett who i do know and love and respect. It's just really powerful for me to be in your company in the company. Your films which i think are both stupendous so glad to be here with you. All and listen. I love making lists. I love breaking rules. I love all of the tools that cinema give us. And i love the different ways. People use the tools that is my response actually told originally it was not ruled. It was standard rise to begin to the begins so there it asked me to rights. They said we have many many students. They want to talk to you. But what you wanna talk about. Can you read thompson before you wanna talk to them in. I wasn't ira plane. And i said okay. I will you've ten advises to beginners and and it was just like these. We're ready he's vile might fly true to might just throw them without thinking much. An hour became rules and became very became like statement. It's not like these simple. And i like what you just said. I have my own rules. This is rule number ten. Listen to me just forget. It just seems garrett. Let me bring you into this and want to go back to that statement of victor's. If you wanna make a film don't say something just say at a right it And in in your film time. There's a lot of things for us to take away about america's prison industrial complex and its effects on over two billion families that that Have someone in prison These days but It's not a didactic Film the there'd be many different ways of of approaching it So i wonder what you think when when i read. Victors quote about film. Only if you want to show something or if you want people to see something yeah well. I think It's fame smiling because there's just so many Just like it's pandora's box in the most beautiful way know i mean it's looks for nothing i i think like. There's like over the summer in the states and we had these incredible protests that were happening and it was really to a certain extent. I think speaking to the role that images and the optics play in holding systems accountable Which which we have done. I think for for many many years at least from an american perspective and in that context specifically around white supremacy you go back to emmett. Till's mother for instance right and the importance of of the image. But i think that it also right now illuminates the absence of images when we are thinking about the prison industrial complex. When we're thinking about two point three million people being incarcerated. That's something that people can read. Something people can understand on a sort of factual basis but it also to a certain extent becomes relatively abstract and so image may gain. I think in this way is is a very critical form of resistance. The erasure of the population is done by design. So i think that whether it's photography whether it's documentary film whether it's even scripted film. I think we need to create more of a presence for communities and for issues that are Purposefully a race or made visible. So i think for me. That was the that was a really key part of why it was important to make a film. You know you know what i hear garrett talk about trying to film the invisible here and i think about dick johnson is dead. You're you're trying to film things like what the afterlife might be like For your father I wonder if you can pick up on that and talk about you know what you were trying to visualize in dick johnson. His dad that would otherwise be invisible. While i was ready to jump right in with garrett because you know i think the dilemma of how invisible mass incarceration has been in our country. And how like insidious. White supremacy is in our country like takes all kinds of strategies that are visual strategies intellectual strategies like pushing the filmmaking craft to do different things You know my the first film i ever made in nineteen ninety nine was about mass incarceration in in some ways. I i got that something needed to be spoken about. But the language i used to do it was not yet my own and that film doesn't live on in people's imagination It does for the people who are in the film. It does for the many many families of People who were portrayed in the film many of whom were teenagers when i found them who are all now dead and this is one of the things you know like what do think about like that films. Do and what. I thought about heading into the film with my father is like films. They're engaged with loss because they're engaged with time. And i can tell you like when when i saw that garrett was named time. Oh yes finally someone name to film time like it's such a storm in. It's such a brilliant. I mean it's the right subject matter the right people or the name and but i was so was a victory because cinema is time and you know when a camera comes into the room feud the future comes into the room so that the fact that we are recording now tom. One of us in this group of people will die. I and we don't know when that's going to happen or we might. We might. We might die together and some crazy plane crash right but this this recording of us it might be one of our last recordings. It might be one of our last words so in this like sort of like. How do we make our expression matter start. We all struggle with this right. And then we are makers we struggle with the loss that we encounter when we film people even if it is like the imagination of them being gone. The imagination of my mother behind me is now an image. My father is an image but they're here the image brings them here. If these images weren't here. I could talk about my father but you wouldn't be looking at him right. And so you know like victor was stating one of the things that cinema does is allows us to see and when you have things like white supremacy that is hiding in plain sight so much so that we didn't use those words. Some of us did because we were like being like stepped on the neck by it and some of us were like. Oh this system racism like. That's what i was saying. Ten years ago. I wasn't saying white supremacy i now say white supremacy in and it's like this is how we help each other learn right like what victor was saying about us. As filmmakers we get inspired by each other we aspire to each other and each other's films but we're also trying to figure out our language and we make mistakes in our language as we try to make things. So i said vincent and you know why said that because we say last name. He's a master. We don't coke garrett bradley. We don't call me johnson. We all know what we call you. Victor i don't have practice saying your first name because you have been named a master right and now we all know like masterclasses are done tom. We're not none of us are doing masterclasses anymore. Right so we're thinking about language and how language is a part of this cinema language out. Stop there jump. you said Even the jazz. But in fact. I not just shoot times. We have ready really close. Because for example i met a movie known for its scenic so i cannot suspect you. You stole my idea because it is my trust film. Actually everybody seemed my first film. The of but in fact before billups. I might've marine corps It's about philosophy was ninety five ninety four years old and he actually when i came to him. No one knew humor on. So he's i in. My idea was to show his face to people because in my opinion he's level of the of ski but in twenty century. He's the greatest loss of russian culture. And no never no one ever see his face. I came to film him but he said to me. I'm gonna die. Twenty four of may so and he actually died of of my but when he said it to me in hospital i protested like riley. Today what is the reason to die and he starts joking to explain why he has today and he's why was why for staying close to him and she was kind of making lexi's kind of keeps he's right he goes to guy and i was protesting why we have to die. What is the reason for us today. Ensures she recent listen. The professor porkies explaining why we to but what happened next he actually died twenty four so may and i feel his junior and his wife was not agreed as his this. She was disagree. She was crying nonstop in. I put on this image when she was close to his body. Look into his co. Accused body should Luksa kim put his voice into here. I have to die. Don't worry this is the rules apply. But she's crying crying and he explained explained to. You know it's fine. Don't worry this is supposed to be this. Might when i was switching. And then i made his. Everybody thinks cannot person is my first film to by the way i think like like an an could we even name our first films. But oh my god. I can't wait to see that scene right. And it's it's like i haven't seen your movie but i am inspired by it at at. This is what. I love about time in relationship to our encounters with filmmaking. It often happens that we find these like ssim paddock things. Even though we are not like. When i saw time and i saw that fox had created a life sized image of rob freaked out. It was like we had entered the time space continuum together around like let's carry our loved ones around on a stick right like So i think this happens in cinema time travel through each other's movies. The film time is kinda frisky title right and they stopped wrote you need. I was a little bit disappointed in the i interest one million like i said. Oh it's like static but when it's come grow analyze it's shows me something i never seen before this is actually. This is actually interesting. i always. It's my biggest question why seeing exists. We know why we can say differently. Why fiction exists but why the commended exists why why is genuinely exists and by was insisting that it's not story but shows maybe story but not messy. I want to say that senior. The community can show you samson q. Normally or you don't want to see or you're not able to see or you decided not to this three way of seeing much e when i saw a few time i infused my first action was. I didn't want to see. But then i realized while it shows it does in i was stuck and i started to watch it and it gave me this this executive what i said. We don't want to see something. But documentary can say no. No no dude watch it watch it watch it. It's like again. It's like the staves kid. The stoev ski sometimes uses technology. He he say to you you read his lines and you say oh it's boring he say in houston He say to you in that moment when you feel as you said to you and know it's boring but read next slide. You have news you can use it. you know. we've got what you feel now. He knew much for both of you for your this. Is it right the setup and the reveal the pleasure that one feels when one feels the boredom and then has it land that he knows he were feeling that it's like then you have community. Yeah there's it's funny because you do bring a question of just like why like why we make films and i to me. I'm still. I'm still kind of in like were these species on a planet. We've figured out a way. Somehow it's been important for us to understand ourselves like to understand everything. And i feel like the camera and bill making has been this attempt for us the sort of self documentation That sometimes places either a mirror or a window. You know what i mean and i think both can be powerful. I think that scripted narrative so making exists in a space that is aspirational. And i think that. I sound i e for a second but i feel like maybe documentary. Filmmaking is also in a place where it's showing people that we don't have to script things for them to be aspirational like that. Those things also exist in the real world and we're finding ways to sort of prove that to a certain extent you know my suspect you're you're you meant some against me. I seven fuel. I'm also pressured Here you know. They have relational for everyone. And i miss my traditional seven. You're gunda like it's like it's allowing us to wish to be with the tiny pigs which is not a wish. We knew we had like like. Let me be down there. Let me touch that. Tiny pig latin nestle in there without little pig and the light that you allowed to like sort of wrap around those tiny things. It's it's like You know geared. And i have talked about this a lot like that. There are not enough images in the world of african american people loving each other. We are over saturated with the images of violence. That is done to black bodies but we haven't seen the love and we have not seen the love of pigs right like the love of pigs is that's new territory and it calls into all kinds of questions of like. Oh really were raising those little cuties so that we can eat them like you know. Those questions are raised by the way in which you film them right and it is a new way of scene. Because we're seeing you know. I mean for me. It's the chicken with ted cutoff. Still alive is like the hallelujah moment like how loud. I laughed in this moment. I wish i could share with you. But but but i mean you know sort of back to garrett in like why are we doing this what is what is compelling us and i think about like our human struggle with memory and how we construct ourselves in our world in relation to memories that we can't hold onto but the we feel in some way and so there's a way in which all of us at this point in history understand. Our ancestors are with us and in our bodies but but to imagine who our ancestors were to sort of create hallucinations of through. Cinema is to discover ourselves. And so that was one of the things that happened to me through. My mother's alzheimer's is that i learned that my own memory was deeply unreliable and her in her state of alzheimer's just sort of like wrote over the memory that i had of her as lucid person and i was so devastated by the loss of my own memory and i knew my memory was capable of failing me and so that was part of what took me into camera person. Let me go back into this evidence. I have this visual evidence. Of what i experienced and see how my memory lines up with it or doesn't line up with it and of course it was just like revelation after revelation about the fragmentary -ness of both i had filmed an would i remembered But in the making of that we brought my mother. Back to life nells bangor cut shot of my mother's ashes and then he cut a shot of my mom alive and for a second i was like she's alive and that feeling was what like inspired me in some ways to say like okay. Can i do this experiment and and garett like when you say like. Why do we make films. I was like it was okay with me. If it wasn't ever going to be a movie. I aspired to be movie. But what i wanted was the process with my father and the process with my collaborators and the knowledge that then we would have some evidence of what we had experienced and imagine together. Yeah and i think that that's just as powerful as something as something. That's aspirated like that in and of itself is aspirational logan. We go back all the way all the way to the beginning where you know the lumiere brothers or whatever to say going all over the world and documenting. There was a reason why they were documenting. They were trying to understand themselves understand something they know yes. There were so many other problems that were then funneled into that process but at the end of the day it is an attempt to try to understand why we're here and what we are and but can i ask you. Why are we so slow. Because we're not that smart. I think decide what be when we do this. Our why are we still discussing this. Why human did not so two hundred years ago in your country in my country was slavery it was slavery so we got the greatest. Fashion rioters. were writing. Noel's half of them where they come slips at home so zero writes novels but they have like three hundred five hundred slaves. Justice in intervened make breakfast so how we so small. I don't understand what was coming. How difficult to stand. Celebrities wrong or or isis is ron paul. How why are we so slow to understand standards all of this. Why are we so slow to understand for example to kill anymore is same as kill human and to mistreat. Animals took to please the name to in simulators efficiently. It's the same as to have a slaves. How why we. Why are we still so fucking scarring. So why are we so slow. I don said why are we still don't understand what to do. Nice way too. Nice way to die and have to we skew so thousand hundred thousand years being in the blind. Be to know how to handle fundamental fundamental. Seems and all three films raising this. 'cause i don't know it's just amazing. Have people as more than imagine. Imagine even fifty years sound years ago in here in place i was. I can see here. I can see from my glass. And he'll and i can see the the huge huge when when was huge nazi par so it was just seven years ago. We know right okay. Eighty come on in the next building zero making the killing people. So it's absolute absolute. We had have scoured the possible just on corner until at least we don't kill by mediums this time now the donated by metoo dozens of millions to kill people last century maori s killed by dozens of billions. You started what we always do. Why do you always knew to kill someone. You wanna take that. Oh yeah easy. Peasy i can say i can say briefly like i was rereading. Bury my heart at wounded knee recently and beautifully written. And you know i mean. I learned this in school but not not. It wasn't written in have not to the extent that i was reading it in. And there's this question that you're asking has also been really circulating in my mind because the question is like why. What is the when. Christopher columbus you know came in to the to the cove on the island. That's now dominican republic and haiti right in this idea of him needing to please his patronage to to get what he could get so that he could continue to do what he wanted to do for me. The big question is why. Why didn't you just ask. Why didn't he just asked he find a way. Why can he use his imagination to think of. How can we work together. You know what i mean. And i think that's because it only probably benefited one person and he probably knew that and so he went about doing these terrible things at then set the tone for and created a methodology which is shaped the entire all of the americas. You know and. I don't know like wh where does that. Come from like. What is that instinct to that. You must take through through brutality. You know what i mean like. What is that instinct as opposed to asking as opposed to seeing. If there's another way. I i think that's really. That's a question that i don't know if we have is a human. Let me try to pivot this back to your films. Come on we're like getting to the heart of a battle. I mean we're talking about big questions we're talking to be or not to be. Where do you want us to go. We'll go there. We're talking about big questions of ethics here and to go back to something that Wrote in his ten rules. He talked he well. He says documentaries. The only art were every. Aesthetical element is almost always has ethical aspects and every ethical aspect can also be used aesthetically And i mean gear. Maybe i can ask you be in is 'cause in time icy ways in which the ethics and the aesthetics of that film are tightly interwoven And i wonder if if you see the after if you could reflect on that way the ethics and aesthetics of of your filmmaking are interwoven. I feel like i feel like images you know they thumbs. They exist in us like like memories. You know and i think memories become facts in our in our mind in our body and so the ones that we're creating the images that were creating we are. We are offering facts to people and so for me. There's a lot of responsibility with that. But not in a way. That is about propaganda I'm i'm really invested in in beauty invested in in beauty being justice Just as a powerful form of resistance and activism as as revealing of the trauma that exists around that as well. And i think looking up people i think i think leaning into how people present themselves and move into the world to me is really important. I think sometimes we tend to curious how you all feel about this. But i think we have a little bit of this preconceived notion that trauma or violence or giving up breaking down. Being vulnerable is somehow more true than our strength than our victories than the way than seeing us move through the world as powerful beings that somehow those two things one is true and one is is not true. And i think with time it was really important for me to We actually filmed for several. I think it was over over a year and again i didn't know that any fox's archive existed. I had completely constructed this film. Based on what i thought i knew and i and i knew in that moment that leaning into the way in which fox presented herself the way in which the family presented themselves to the world was the truth that i was invested in. I didn't need to get around that. I didn't need to be behind them to make it more real for anybody. So and i think that the archive than being able to incorporate that certainly present something that is holistic. Something that's three hundred sixty degrees something that shows a true evolution of somebody of a family's life in a way that is very difficult to do in two dimensional space one frame at a time But i think the ethics for me really really lean into who. Is this beautiful person that i see or the circumstance that i see. How do i strike a balance between my own observation and how they see themselves and how they wanna move through the world and finding a bridge between those two things you know. My dad always says the is our Dry the oregon's cry and when the eyes are dry the organs cry and you know it wasn't anything like that. I that i understood consciously for a long time. But i think you know one of the things that i've been really Like deeply interested in as a human being is other people's eyes and you know having been a camera person for thirty years like the camera allows you to go deep into people's is i mean just like you did like to go into goon does is is to go into a consciousness but when you're going into someone's eyes from the outside You are reading emotions but you're also projecting emotions. You actually have no idea what's going on on the inside right and tears are sometimes aclu. Yes something is happening right. Which i think is in so many ways like why. So many of us have like the experience of filming. Someone crying like you know. I'm getting in right because something is coming out from the inside. So i think in some ways that's our attachment to tears in some ways like tears or so. In so many different cultures tears have been held in because survival is necessary. But you know. I think like your act of resistance garrett to to in some ways show the idealize self the idealized family. When what that family is up against is the vilification of their family the criminalization of their family you know the the destruction of their family. So that that becomes you are elevating idealization. Right in a certain way through your beauty and i think for me like the the challenge and the thing that interests me to go back to your question. Victor around like. Why are we so slow. We know we know that were that other. People's pain sometimes gives us pleasure. We know that we experienced that in our personal relationships and we are mystery to ourselves. Why did i hurt that person. I love why. I didn't want to. But i did it out of my own need right and then to sort of investigate like where's that coming from. So i mean. I think like when we ask these questions about the world and societies and systems and genocides. It's also like we just got like look at our own blind spots and be like wow complicit mistake maker injure as well as traumatized injured loving lobo blah all the things we are right and that's sort of what i find so excess like extraordinary about documentary. Is that That like sometimes we get to see the contradictions. And i think in both of your films. The contradictions exist in the world. Where killing cows pigs chickens. We all are eating them. You don't need to tell us that in the movie. Same with garrett's movie right. Less line of this is written may be nice people should be and i just wanna know like for you like i mean just quickly working with your father. I mean they were there. Were there moments where you were like. Okay this where's the boundary like what's the. What was that process like for you all the time every moment every day like you know when i you know i had this dream that a man was in a casket any sat up and i said he said i'm dick johnson. I'm not dead yet. And i didn't recognize this man but i was like. Aw right i'm running out of time but then you had this idea. We're going to do the funeral like but by the time we got the money to do the film i was like. Oh my god my dad totally has dementia and i know a dementia is and i had. I had a firm to myself. I wanted to collaborate with him. I wanted to make with him not about him that we were doing it together. It was about our capacities to like imagine together. And so i. I was like this is wrong. You cannot make a film with a part. You cannot fully collaborate with the person who has dementia. And then i said to myself but can you write and the contradictions that a person with dementia is presenting all the time. So like sometimes my so. I said to have okay. I'm not going to make my dad do anything he doesn't want to do. And my dad was fully on board like thought. The idea was hilarious. Want to make a funny film. But my dad would do anything for me. My dad loves me so much would do anything for me. He would throw himself under a bus literally so he's already ready to die for me. So can i kill him right at and so you know that that's ethical questions like to continue going to see him. You know when when. When i was a kid i started to make enforcers when i was like five six hours. Yours like making four voters in and then and then at four years old before before when i was full. I a little piglet which became my best friend and then he was killed and on on my became vegetarian dinners Who's in a lab ozone vegetated all my lives and then making footers. In in certain moment. I became so i stopped making my movies which find we measured in seventy. I said if film itself made from bones of animals for me it was the biggest disaster. My because i remember the moment when i was a key i want to. I had to decide or Gyco protect animals like forest who protect threes in an animal in the forest against guys who has gone gonna destroy everything all too familiar runway one day fourteen years saw decided to remission but then i realized that film itself certified mill. Did they move your made from boss. And for i ready might i mean. It was like disaster. Attached story just really disaster. So and i didn't know how to hold it. I didn't know what to do now though it was to us. Sixty million next few busy ready at least jerry jones mount of food and then came by luck but but but when i started making under you said i always think artists i always if i asked you are always. Legs is kind of holes here holes. Victor is pointing to his tear duct and our acting just was to make some bigger exactly. Then you can cry. But not because i show you something quotable but utah. I show you something beautiful. So help you to feel something normal experience so i said female beyond that of course i wanted to come closer to but in side i said no. I have to treat you as a few i should not. I shouldn't come closer and they've seized moody because sometimes she was moody because in congress. Way was the slaughterhouse in one severe kidding. The most ended a quarterback noise anymore was screaming so loud yonder was not. It was disaster for her. She knows what the skipping so days. I was not able to feel i knew she is. She is nervous and we just make the bags but the last episode. This was the most crucial moment where to put. Conner have to catch the motions and not ready to put cranberry not destroy keurigs vitamin in others cheese. Free to go whenever she wants. Victor is describing a scene. Where gun does offspring have been taken to the slaughterhouse. She roams the farmyard in distress. But in same time to be close enough to seek your motion and you don't believe me. Now what i would say and i said to my team if you could camera here in the corner don't destroy your nothing your way but she will come to us not become too but she look to us and my team said why do you know she'll come to us. I don't know my experience tells me. She needs to talk to someone she aspired. There is no one around. She will come to us so the close up only close up on the field. We have she not. We came to land but she came to us and she looked to the camera. Oma saying what are you doing with to mike. it's so it was just. Don't think raising this question of instead. Just this job is really every single day every single avenue a moment to put comic here or or you have to come. I needed to environment of awesome. You you come closer. This is most important thing this victim just gave a wonderful illustration of Of another question. I want to ask another thing. You write in your documentary. Rules is that you need your brain. Both before and after filming. Don't use your brain during filming just film using your instinct and intuition. It sounds like they're Victor you were really easy mention. i'm senior. You mentioned i'm a senior. I came to the stage in seem instead of Verity i must say who team is. Also trump also foods boss in prison. You will say what the fuck. I i need your voice. I need your i need to feel. You are better seem as in a me myself right. You don't you don't need me to speak to you. My ideas unit me show my don right sameness. Can you have to you unique brain to choose right song and you to choose in our case to choose right subject and write a steady but when you feel you have to just use your talent us ability to see more than normal people to listen muslim or people to feel more than normal people. This is our job and this is nothing to do. Is if you if you i believe i can say something creaming on now. Forgive me and a stone some me. I believe the greatest maker of the walk across key spoil his reputation by using brain too much in the last two kims. He just put so much messages. So much humanistic rights is so much knowledge so much. In my opinion in my opinion he used to be quite of cinema. In the in the last he became like a teacher schumann and this kenyans eating. This island is believed when you feel forget about your knowledge. Read the books before. I read a lot of books about peaks checking on how great sanchez before start but when i step still mean uses and just feel together mexico. I was reading your emotions. I was looking into your to is nor stanfield motions at have guys but this is for me crucial garrett i wonder about the role of instinct and intuition in in your filmmaking unkind yeah i mean i think i think it's i think to the same point. You have to be able to know something well enough that you can let go of it then right to a certain extent i think gum for me. It's always important especially with with time to to get to know the family could to get to know how they move through space. How they how. They inhabit their space so that i can My instinct is based on knowledge. You know at my instinct is is also to intention that is informed so I completely agree. And i think that that translates in a literal way of like i know what fox's routine i knew what her routine was while we were filming right so i knew how she was gonna move what her typical movements were in the office. You know and that. I was making informed decisions on where my camera was going to be. And i think it also on a on a on a less literal level for me every in the same way that you're speaking about like reading a book you know for me. It starts with a lot of conversations. I every single project that i make is especially with time started off with a series of conversations between myself and fox in the family around why they wanted to make this film what was their intention for wanting to make this film and they said to me. Our store is the story of two point. Three million american families we feel we can offer hope our story offer hope so then for me. I felt it was my job to to take. The abstraction of hope can look like and try to distill that into something. That's very specific. And how how does hope exist in their life. How can we see that automatically in their life And then the intention because i think also documentary for us it's it's a real practice in honoring the president. It's a it's you have to honor the present moment. You can't be focused on the future. And so how do how do you honor the present moment. Something needs to be anchoring. You and i think that the anchor is the attention and the intention for me needs to be connected with the people that i'm working with so it all kind of it. All kind of lines up in there is a bit of a chronology there that that is very clear. Acknowledge free you put your finger on it right garrett. It's it's it's when one films one is in the present and what you're talking about of making it with the family or making it movie with kunda letting guna come to you is about trust and trust is something that is built time and that can be broken in an instant and so that that like the hyper awareness in the present moment is realizing that everything's at stake. The trust can be lost. Trust that you've spent twenty five years building can be lost in a moment and that was like in some deep way the high stakes of me making this phone with my dad like he's loved me unequivocally for fifty five years and i can blow it with this film. I can break our trust and yet to honor our trust by making the craziest movie. I can in the service of define his death. And i'm gonna do everything. I possibly can but victor i gotta tell you i believe we our bodies our brains are in our bodies. Our hearts are in our bodies. Our is our bodies and our bodies are present when we film. So i'm not taking my brain out of the picture. Brain has served me well. My brain is always active. When i film but my heart is active. My eyes are active. My body is active. And my history. My history with in the world but with the people i am with or the animals i am with right and so i'm holding all of that in my body and i'm holding the camera and the cameras not my body and the mind body. When i'm feeling it's a long way brady out there. You will come to this and you know what like i love. I love that somebody in the future. I'll be filming. And i'll think of you and i'll be like where's my brain. I don't know where it is right. That will happen. And i also love like what i love about these conversations. Tom is that we teach each other new things about our own films. And like you know. Victor you just reminded me. My father had to work in a slaughterhouse when he was a teenager. And i you just made me realize like that's part of why my father is such a remarkable human and i like i hadn't thought of it. I didn't think of it watching your movie by in this station i talk about this is this is. What is the commentary about something you son before you didn't put scraped home by bound salary samson headband. And you got chip this is. This is the mitraco documented. It's unpredictable beauty in coupons mutual. I want to thank these three filmmakers for speaking with me kirstin. Johnson's film johnson is dead is on net flicks. Garrett bradley's time is on amazon prime. Victor secorski film gunda is distributed in the us by neon can watch this conversation and others doc nyc at facebook dot com slash. Doc nyc fest. Thanks to our team series producer and inordinate on and web designer cross strategy doc. Nyc live was produced by morgan. Our theme music is composed by andre williams and our executive producer is rafael. And they housing. I'm tom powers. You can follow me on twitter. At t h chau empowers. You can read our show notes and sign up for our newsletter at pure nonfiction dot net.

garrett victor dick johnson tom powers victor costco Victor secorski kirsten johnson garrett bradle victor costa fox rich Gunda Victor berlin kirstin Vincent vincent victor garrett tom garrett bradley Luksa kim Victor vincent ssim paddock Dick johnson
Inside Supercars - Show 295 Part 3- Todd Hazelwood -The business of being a racing driver

Inside Supercars

21:07 min | 1 year ago

Inside Supercars - Show 295 Part 3- Todd Hazelwood -The business of being a racing driver

"I am Jones Dick Johnson from team penske and you're on in Subic. From the rice treks across Australia. He is inside supercars. Ties with joins US here on inside supercars, as we congratulate you first of all for third place on the well, not a step on the podium, but it was certainly a trophy in hand, which is a great way to leave the race circuit. Thanking Craig was pretty code picked up a nine. Something you cows may Communist. Party yeah very very special Myron may something. Hidden you have to relive it real. Very cool and. Might populate the. Your journey has been a will documented once a bulletin under rehash how you to where you are now, but I have noticed David last few weeks that you've been upping your fan club and and upping your profile through your own personal network. What's the reason drama going through and taking those steps? The well religion. They were very closely connected in the way breakfast. Have Banned Beth full You Chris her neck with the site and fray. We'll mandible be three by tracking behind things. And White people in. Both sides of today's very different to how you they back in ninety. Day how I eat the. I. Expected that you'd be picking up our action during the week in front of work often did brisk. Walk Putting follow every. May hit look. I'm trying to think differently to draw up in line and the things rich I'm thinking I'm one of the jobs that runs a membership program. Where we put a platform in place to? Have Senses for members than whether whether the mention dog for whether the benefits from my personal partners for the this guy trying to include different elements that you wouldn't normally get know with with other things as well. It's something that we do and then generating a form of prescription as well weaken than charter left personal partners and sponsors within the same that we're trying to make a conscious effort Friends have a daughter. Bison Flights I. You know when we know if there's a sponsor on the they can see the benefits place with the. Network, that was going on thing, so it's. It's a win win i. hope the fans you can have on on on your thoughts a better at. It off. Always trying to work on and sure that yeah. Trying to do our thing by the sport and keep growing in in any way possible. A you managed by yourself? Oh, do you have a manager implies to to work on these sorts of things. A look about you go to a team of people working with me on thought now. My couple of years really trust the step up off professionalism whether the bay from a representation pointy. You know how we manage the contract, although both the things that are being put in place. Allows fees yeah, and and it's always. Going to be in a position where he can. You know. Take the reins and now what you're doing and at the same time you have the raw people and you wanted to. A The ship is Whoa, and that's not make. That voice struggled probably being a position with where Fain had actually have people thought that? Full trust in and trying to manage my racing career fortune. On thought up in Queensland, who's looking up by the management and contract twenty, I'm GonNa to a partner on that Initially was doing web thought and. I helped me with us both on the and how we can maximize their reach whether they buy some channels and things thought that I Yeah, there's a few people that helped me along the way, but when it comes to creating the content and putting their on law, and that's something that I'm doing still putting video together all the other stuff, so it's not that keeps me busy between race meetings, then find joy as well. As I mentioned, it's something that I've noticed over the last few weeks. It seems that you've you've had a bit of a run on now that you back racing again. But how long have you been doing something like this? been doing us now. ever since I was I. Really Thought Ten. What was? always pain arising creates, may since really Suppose social media has taken away boss Dom now I was still young my Touting careers that at that point in an initial. Say the value and in what what was created at the time and Reflecting to work on and the thing with social media sites like not, it's always evolving voice changing so always GonNa ensure that got tonight, and that's not hoist trust. Ensure that of you know looking at what other things do whether. The other drivers are all around the world and comparing industry, Distri or other sport, and saying how are way up and. Try to you know opposing the engaging and ensure that you know whether the sponsor fan. They feel connected, and they do what they getting value out of what we're putting social media, because it is a strong platform you know reaching to hundreds of thousands of people awake so that self is very powerful and in the end. What we know, the promotion that we do at the rice trek at the event. in at the moment is particularly. Difficult obviously, the activation for sponsors and at events is is a huge element of. Championships for us now, even more important to using social media, and and trying to ensure that we can generate forms of return for sponsors and partners and everyone else involved. Have you seen since the covert, not aimed break in the series. Did you see a big jump in the way? The people responded reacted with you on long. Arm Look things I think the best thing that come at Easter in particular search. and. How we present it, a sporting card in general I. Think was really well perceived We'll see those affected back rush. You know in the media probably in particular to NRO and I looked at the way that boasted because and and and the. Drugs and stick goes well the way they handled the whole situation. It was you know it was okay with how they were a step. Above the rest you know we had saint my making preparing medical equipment So you know folks. They've aspects that were in need we. We had a sport that was able to I. Flip it on its head by a non within a every draw, the store things simulators and getting everything soda, so he got erasing and oversee those other forms of motorsports. Trust replicated, but we couldn't talk on I think he's close to achieving because hidden in that show by Tom and. The reach that we got in that show here with amazing and and a great way to. Fill still avoid that. We hadn't during that time, so it was yeah worked out really well, so did that mean what you were doing? Automatically picked up a lot of momentum because your one of the few people that are. Doing the the partnership in the whole profile. Look I think Yeah look from my point. He's trying to do everything that you can't You Know Sean stand out whether whether it's you know trying to valley sponsors, or if it's trying to you know, engage your fans that you can't go to Novi on a building new sand. Affecting multiple, you've got on board and we'll people that take interest in what you do, the more beneficial, and it'll element of how we got racing I'm pretty often and Ella Chamma well by the rice tracking, and that trying to professional. Football obviously and Yeah, I think. As I said the only reason I really do it because I just know half hassle it. Is that you know, be honest. That amazes me that more drivers to more of Considering you know, have passed. Just you know thinking particularly mayor is made something that yeah, instead of thing, right valley with it, and and it's a well that getting more and more hassle as cited. Go on, you know we say more businesses invest town and money and social media more than anything. Cows, says a form of advertising whether it be a way of trying to generate use ozone. Or whatever it might be, but it's the place to be in that sense. You, having that sort of data matrix, and and reach, what does that mean to a team owner when they choosing between Todd Hazelwood and driver ICS. Joins that question. look say that that's part of it, you know. Me that. Thinks that always try to compete. With the United States to draw. I put a groff of all the things that makes us successful. multiple driver is that you got to have a strong following to be out of so mentioned off. You gotta be at a have a strong presence in the meeting got to be out of control quote behind A. It's only the obviously and hopes the number one. Is You gotta? You gotta qualified well, and you've got to be able to set up the right path, but as we night in particularly professional medical as well. How much money thing both you need to cool the other boxers, they even have A. Volley in the industry and to me US by. Of what takes the of the being industry actually survive and that? While on two levels that I've gone now. Ensure that you know if if if they said every come to that situation, we push comes to shove and draw the line because I feel like. Max Months. Every aspect off track ensure that. I can't stand out amongst threat. Whoever maybe? It's a fascinating topic. What a driver brings to a team and we've seen the these. Drivers and the Korea's really hinge on certain amount of support and. Also has seen drivers culpa backlash from those sorts of things. must be a fine line. You walk between being a corporate person who? Brings a sponsor to a team or helps a sponsor come to a team as opposed to a driver who goes into a team? That's already well-sponsored. You Know I. It's definitely a on manage. And, you never WANNA. Draw this is Sandra is liable with cash kings and his others that. Can sometimes they just as powerful bring money to the table Bacon labelled different, so it's yeah, it is. It is fascinating and. Think, you know we're GONNA drive getting themselves as they also they will. Go stay on. There's always a sponsor backer or sewn involved behind the scenes that helped get get from us drivers where we asked that I. you know. I'll see. We are probably get labeled as a you know the the family that worked hard, and and is that on behind the same, but in the same always very fortunate is huge before on the things in particular with with communications at Tom and individual prices. Also it was you know the backside of my career in in particular with the. For people like that. You know simply definitely wouldn't be where I am. Today is like you know everyone. Everyone's got their own story and I. It's tough because of the it's not like high, so we will you any Ernie Autumn, that you need to purchase instead of football football boots, and might be a bit of coaching and a football and white guy was unless for this time of the elephants from both the even get thought a little. I'M! In the game will be successful. And there is a number of those applies to get the mouth mouthguard and then pifer lighter. A all in all you are one of the few drivers and I think people would find this fascinating you'll. Probably three drivers could think of at the most has a published book about career. Yes, that's probably true. Actually Yeah, it'll come John with. That was biceps, Charlie that was failing my that is we've interest and thought a guy from my events, and then in twenty seven sane of with. we essentially went to every event on saints, and then come to me of audio at the end of the towards the end of twenty seven, saying hey. This chip together. We put a book row book about it. I went from just being a picture book to something quite quite more significance than that The is quite cool, something, different and For Win another championship. You're nice. Sort of blew put together one days. I am in that position to do something like that. Well that's what the power of positive thinking can do, isn't that? Exactly, let's talk about your I party. This weekend at cinemas four-pack. What was different for the team who were at Tom's Rod at the front of the field throughout the entire weekend. Oh look for me. Party. That was mayes. It was great. Who Away from the weekend off think for us. In the cough for thought of the fruits championship Sydney that we. That we put ourselves in a beautiful position to decline that the party is not. Definitely racing through win and then have we have a small filer on the house. The robot hurting off. Then you know we we that was one that got away we had. To wake on that and thinking of possibilities of what could have been, and what sorta housing modest Bain, and we own this industry how hard it is even get a taste of a party line actually having the thought of not potentially being the rights when he -sition. Home My. Hard to believe I I i. know this, join US wake united this. There's definitely a lot of redemption I felt. What's on asphalt of the garage? You know the Knicks had had the wind a couple of weeks back, and he and we had a strong time. We will strong all weekend. We sacrificed So far running on Saturday even though we qualified extremely well and. So we felt like we put us those who going well in and heading direction and. Unfortunately we had a bit of A. Bit of a full of and I had had the as for Abrasion With just the Iraq war of which brings me out and We didn't qualify well as well as we as well as we should. Because we had to grain. Available to us, and yes, we didn't execute well enough and we have thank comfortably up with the loss of under harm. Gotten up the front, because just sort of Tom with being Jason. Comfortably awake and the ramp before as well. then. It was a case of and we put eggs in one basket. Rice car and then. We went to achieve party. Kinda felt like we're back to square one was. Going to. Buy The rights on Sunday Quad not ride the time and was a man on a mission and. From Ford, wanted you will pushing each other pretty odd and. Fortunately enough we We we had a wicked rice cut. Mine tiny made some changes for the rice, and it was It was an rocket ship and enjoy to drive and. Drop the wheels off the thing the on my host sin and get rewarded was a fighting the last laugh. It was yeah. We answered and. Feeling when you do a lot. Now, Brad Jones, racing all Burri and as we speak on a Monday evening. There is some questions about. What might happen to New South Wales with covid nineteen. How do you go? Work through now with the team can stay at Aubrey and Darwin all whether they'll have to make a jump. Look at. That's probably more of a question for Brad. At this site may obviously pain in Victoria. The biggest thing was just making sure I'm out of there and. It's a moving target always has been so. I'm just mostly following the garden. WHAT BRIBE WANTS TO DO? For the same. So, yeah, it's me now I am currently back it over, but yes, it's nice what what might happen in the next day or the next wake it? Is. pretty crazy. Tom That we live in and obviously. Off The Sydney Lost Graham, we'll get. We'll putting setup together and getting paid for Winston four healthy. That'll go on his head as well so I was on the second day, bought the Mima bag to pack whenever I go I'm ready to go. and You, part of the crazy share housing history with. Macaroni and Nick Perk. On of of what macaroni Nick. Price. How much hanging out mines need tiny, so we we just folk rice, Kozel who? Could so tiny doesn't get six frustrated. Late sang. It is biased and say along the thing. I won't be here for wall side Thank good. I'm looking forward actually spending a bit more on it up and Oprah and ultimately say he long enough, then I can get to know the boys and goes at the workshop. Look better, and it's not the feel a high. What does this sort of time getting to know someone your engineer particularly so closely. What does that mean when you get to the right track and those? Intricacies that a driver engineering share. Everything you know you need to have. Good working relationships, and you need to be out of understand one another need to be on the sand, the language and lingo and everything that's put in place because it's so intense on race, I and you don't position when you've quite know each other where we stop second guessing each other and eat twin overseas to see cracks in inconsistence, the the cost that up and things like that, but that's something planning on think working on. Tremendously since day one that this whole deal, they jeff the she was an ass, unfortunately made a Birdie. Tonight tiny quite well back when I raised the as a car driver twenty seven eight, so we already had a bit of a head start as far as warming relationship was sin. but yeah understanding. Takao this may completely different mentality on second pets. The the trip flight Vice Colorado's previously used the make it some. Take in third rushing and then each challenging. Yeah, I'm just relishing. The moment spent amazing. Well! It's Tadao next Hattie like the Dow. Couldn't. What do you think you couldn't do building? They spy momentum. I really enjoy the event that down. You know one of those sort of after. You really feel Kinda got that relaxed voice and everyone gets on it and Mike Really enjoyable to have that this. She and I I love to track love to solve of the house is quite attacking, but it was like flowing and in. A qualifying in Michael break because Tom was separated. hundreds of the second. US With everything that we can keep using this. My mentioned that we've gone about bread giants racing. As attain we, we had today at best rice weekend. as a group with full cow's chasing pucks so hopefully tea party. Including Fleet of the wind the we'd love to try and say this Maria belong in vacant lead. Time form former result, and that's where you know what what have a fraud that way cop on Feynman show. that. We can do that like bring it on. We'll taught. It's pleasure to catch the here on inside. Subas and look forward to seeing how the team progresses up there in Darwin for Beck toback rices very Mike Berger. Thank me on the inside. Supercars is produced by thunder media shooting next time for more or locking the podcast garage or mobile device search inside. Sue Cows. The views expressed on inside supercars, including the panelists and guests do not reflect the views of the network thunder media. Will Sport Radio any publication Ray Of the, show without the expressed written permission of thunder media is strictly prohibited.

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Best Of: What If Trump Contests The Election? / Filmmaker Kirsten Johnson

Fresh Air

50:36 min | 10 months ago

Best Of: What If Trump Contests The Election? / Filmmaker Kirsten Johnson

"From whyy in Philadelphia, this is fresh air weekend I'm Dave Davies in for Terry Gross Today the prospects for a constitutional crisis in the presidential election Atlantic staff writer Barton. Gelman says, if Donald Trump claims mail in votes or fraudulent and contests, the results Republican legislatures might try to ignore their states' popular votes and send trump representatives to the electoral college. His latest article is the election that could break America. Also, we talk with filmmaker Kirsten Johnson about her documentary Dick. Johnson, is dead. It's a loving tribute to her dad who's actually still alive the dealing with dementia in the film she engages him in playful enactments of imaginary accidental deaths. She says, it helped her cope with his inevitable departure. And Kevin Whitehead, reviews the first album from an all star band of jazz women called Artemis. This message comes from NPR sponsor hammock slimmer helping define modern living for one and seventy two years. They were the first to offer revolutionary items that became common household necessities such as the pop up toaster today. Their lineup includes an air purifier that uses natural convection to draw airborne impurities into its ceramic heating chamber, and then releases clean air into their room. Find this and other items at Hammock dot com use code NPR's twenty to receive twenty dollars off your order. This is fresh air weekend. I'm Davies Infra for Terry. Gross, if you're following the presidential campaign, you know that this is an election season unlike any in our lifetimes, our guest Atlantic staff writer Barton Gilman says the twenty twenty vote might bring more than just turbulence and controversy. He writes that the coronavirus pandemic reckless incumbent, a deluge of mail in ballots of vandalized postal service a resurgent to. Suppress votes and a trainload of lawsuits are bearing down on the nation's creaky treasury in an article in the Atlantic November issue Goldman examined scenarios in which contested counts in battleground states might embolden state legislatures to set aside their states, popular votes, and select their own partisan representatives to the electoral college that would trigger a constitutional crisis in the country's laws are ill equipped to resolve clearly and peacefully. Barton Gilman has spent decades as a journalist covering foreign and military affairs, national security and other subjects. He won the two thousand Fourteen Pulitzer Prize for public service for his coverage of the National Security Agency and Edward Snowden. His most recent book is Dark Mirror Edward Snowden and the American surveillance state. He spoke to me on Wednesday from his apartment in New York about his article in the Atlantic the election that could break America. Bark Goldman. Welcome back. Fresh air. Good to have you. Great feedback. You've been reporting for so many years on the Middle East on foreign policy in recent years on national security and domestic surveillance. What prompted you now to focus on the election process. I started looking at the statements that the president had made about the election and about his intentions during the election, his confidence in the system. And it finally occurred to me that this was a man who was not prepared to concede defeat if it. Under any circumstances? And I decided to pull on that thread and see what the implications are for our electoral system if you have a candidate. And in particular an incumbent who refuses to concede and it turns out that that decision alone. That determination alone has cascading effects on the system. Right. Well, of course the President win asked has declined to state that he will respect the outcome of a vote that doesn't go his way he's done that a lot you say that he will never concede under any circumstance. How can you be so sure I take some pains in the article to try to explain why I'm so sure because I think it's such an important foundation for the piece but take a look at what the president has said. First of all he's been offered the opportunity multiple times in the last campaign and in this one. To, express his willingness to lose. That's really what it comes down to Are you prepared for the possibility that the people will vote you out? and he has always declined to say that he's he's gone further than that. It's not a maybe. He said in a little stunt in the two thousand sixteen election that he was fully prepared and was was offering a guarantee here now to the American people that he would accept the results of this election if I win, he said. He has this time not only an informal remarks, but in his formal written. acceptance speech for the Republican nomination on August twenty fourth the president said the only way. That we could lose is if the election is rigged, the American people get say in this as far as trump's sort of frame of reference has it. It's either going to be vote for him or the vote was crooked. that's a man who won't leave there. There are there many aspects of his. Past behavior and frankly his pathology that lead me to think this is an immutable decision on his part. Now. You make the point in this piece that the willingness of the losing candidate to concede defeat in a presidential election is more than an exercise in civility and you point to the conclusion of the Bush Gore recount dispute that went on for weeks in two thousand explain your pointer. The thing is that concessions by the defeated candidate are how we end elections? That's the moment when the contest ends it, there is not. An all-powerful Umpire who gets to blow the whistle and say the scores final now boys. You win you lose get over it. We don't have that in our system, the system presumes. Good behavior and presumes that a a rational and well-meaning candidate will accept reality when it comes some people would think that's not true. The Supreme Court. Ended the two thousand election. and it did end the recount in Florida in two thousand. But there were still six days left before the Electoral College met and Al. Gore had constitutional to continue the fight even after the Supreme Court ended the recount and he did not the day after. The Supreme Court, Decision on December thirteenth two thousand. That was the day that the race ended because that's the day that Al Gore came out and said I accept the finality of this decision and for the good of the country for the unity of the country I recognize George Bush as president elect that is a crucial critical moment the recognition it's it's It's actually As, the political scientists would say constitutive of the authority of the new president that his defeated opponent sort of Ben's than the right. So you could have a situation where if there are contested outcomes in several battleground states, you know you could have multiple lawsuits in state courts that are appealed to federal courts, and that can take a long time and putting an end to it with both parties. Recognizing an outcome is the simplest way to shut down otherwise, it could really go on right. Right, well, it can go on in court and it can go on otherwise I we're used to. Disputes of a certain kind in this country going to the courts, but it's an unnatural act for. An unelected judge. To be the decider on the outcome of election, they can judge procedure they can judge whether someone is following the rules in the count. They can judge whether the UH conduct of the election comports with election law and the constitution. But deciding to count. Is Beyond the court and there are other forums of decision that become more important as time goes on if trump can run out the clock if he can keep the count in doubt even if a county or state election official says, we've got out it's this many for Biden in this many for trump. If he keeps that in controversy long enough. then. The states are GONNA start run into time pressure to appoint electors to the electoral college which meets on December fourteenth. You say that a lot of people including Joe Biden have misconceived the nature of the threat posed by donald trump refusing to concede what's the misconception? What's the? What's the deeper threat? It's a subtle difference but an important one The usual way people say it is that they fear that trump will refuse to leave the White House. If he loses, he'll refuse to give up the reigns of power. And Joe Biden says, well, that's an easy one. If he loses any stays there someone will victim. That will most likely be the secret service or the military, and they'll say excuse me sir. But you're Lisa's expired on this office it's twelve o one on January. Twentieth and we're going to assist you in department. That works if there is a clear winner or loser, the greater danger is that trump is capable using the powers of the presidency and powers of his. invincible decision not to concede. to raise doubt whether a winner or loser has yet been established that he can prevent the achievement of decisive outcome, which is a far greater risk to the American system. So speaking in the broadest terms what's the scenario that might lead to an election result that ignores or discounts the popular vote in key battleground states. We are accustomed to the idea that we choose a president by the popular vote in each state. that is to say if I'm in Pennsylvania and the majority of my fellow Pennsylvanians. Vote for Joe. Biden. Or Donald Trump. Then that's the person who gets the electoral votes the twenty electoral votes. that represent Pennsylvania in the electoral college and the first one, the two hundred, seventy electoral votes. Wins the election. The thing is nothing in the constitution says that there has to be a popular vote at all. The constitution says that each state legislature. may decide in the matter of its own choosing how the state's electors will be appointed. And Donald Trump's campaign has noticed that is aware of it and is talking about the possibility. That if the electoral count is still in dispute if Pennsylvania is called for Biden but trump continues to insist that the vote count is fraudulent it's marred by fraud that it's been rigged and is not legitimate. Then the trump campaign could ask its Republican allies in the state legislature to take back their power under the constitution to directly appoint electors for trump. So they would set aside the popular cow by asserting that it was hopelessly poisoned by fraud. And they would simply appoint trump electors if that happened then the Democratic governor of Pennsylvania would be likely to certify the actual popular vote and sent a slate of Biden electors to the electoral college and so on. December fourteenth, there will be two groups of twenty men and women. Each casting the same votes in opposite directions, and it would then be up to Congress to decide. On January sixth during the formal count which votes counted, and that's not going to be an easy process. Have we ever had a circumstance or where states did just what you described decide that either we don't trust the popular vote or it's in dispute or there are questions about its integrity. So we're just GONNA decide as legislators when if ever has that happened. It came very, very close to happening most recently in the year two thousand during the Bush v Gore recount. And the Republican. Florida legislature. Passed resolutions out of committee in both houses to simply appoint Republican electors while the litigation was underway about a recount. while fight was still being fought in court the Republican legislature said, well, we're not going to stand by and wait for this. And they passed out of committee resolutions that would have appointed. Bush electors directly. They were going to vote on the floor of both houses and it was going to pass based on the pre count. They were going to pass it on December thirteenth, but that's the day that Al Gore came out and conceited defeat So it came very close in two thousand. The only time I know of that it did happen is in the eighteen seventy, six election when four states had controversies about who their electors were. Samuel Tilden the Democrat had won the popular vote. Rutherford Hayes won the disputes in a special tribunal that Congress invented for the purpose to decide which electors would count. Hayes one, those disputes, and so he was named president by this tribunal. which has only existed once in history. Tilden did not accept the result the Democrats stalled for time and two days before inauguration day, which that year was in March two days The dispute was still alive. Both sides were planning on inaugurating their candidate two days later as President and it was only a last minute concessions by tilden. In arrangement for kind of repugnant deal that ended the reconstruction and under the threat of martial law. Being declared by his predecessor of by the incumbent. Ulysses grant only days before did tilden concede and the country came very very close to a terrible outcome but it's fair to say there's been no case in modern times where a state legislature has denied the the popular vote I mean I think there is a commonly understood norm that that for the Electoral College, the person that voters decide who that. State's electors go to it would be a major departure for a state to do that fair to say right Oh very much. So as more the norm I, I haven't checked every state law but I imagined in every state, there is a law passed by the legislature which states that electors shall be chosen by popular vote of the people of the state. And it would be. Legally questionable whether the state legislatures could take back their constitutional power to appoint electors after the vote had already taken place and it would only happen I. Think in circumstances when the legislature was prepared to say that the vote could not actually be counted that the count had been spoiled. And it was up to the legislature to reflect the people's will that would be the argument made by the trump camp. Barton Gilman is a staff writer for the Atlantic his article the election that could break America is in the November issue of the magazine and is available online at the Atlantic. Dot Com. We'll hear more of our conversation after a break and Kevin Whitehead will review the first avenue from artists an all star all women band of jazz musicians. I'm Dave Davies, Mrs Fresh Air Weekend. This message comes from NPR sponsor Tele Doc. Tell dot gives those dealing with stress anxiety personal or family issues access to licensed therapists by phone or video tele. DOC is committed to quality confidential therapy from the comfort of your home available seven days a week matching members to therapists counselors. Psychiatrists therapy is available through most insurance or employers download the APP or visit Tele Doc, dot com slash a fresh air today to get started. Responding with Atlantic staff writer, Barton Gilman he's written the story considering the prospects were contested presidential election this year in which some state legislatures decide to ignore disputed popular votes in their states and send their own partisan delegations to the electoral college. His article appears in the November issue of the magazine it's called the election that could break America. So, there is this provision that states could decide to ignore the popular vote and choose their own electors in on a partisan basis And that would presume a big big problem with the electoral vote and I think this scenario that's being considered now is problems arising from widespread use of mail in ballots. Now, president has been attacking widespread mail in ballots claiming they invite fraud no real evidence I think among most election experts that there is any widespread fraud in male unbalancing. Why is this a target of the president? I would say a little more strongly than you just did I would say that nobody despite many many claims and many many demands for evidence in lawsuits nobody has introduced any evidence whatsoever of meaningful fraud in belan belts or any other kind of bows in American history the. Voter fraud is a pretext that is used by Republicans for decades. Now, to try to suppress votes of their political opponents, the leading Supreme Court, case having to do with of voter fraud. Had A unanimous funding by all the justices that in the state of Indiana, which was the state under issue At that point, there had never in the history of the state example. Of, voter fraud and the the The best scholarly estimates are that there may have been thirty one votes cast out of one billion in the elections in two, thousand and two, thousand fourteen. So thirty, one out of one billion votes may have been fraudulent it just it's not a thing that happens it has been invented out of whole cloth by the president. Well, I have to say there was the congressional election in North Carolina where I believe several hundred absentee ballots were regarded as. Fraudulent right I mean it's not in the tens of thousands, but it does happen in some cases in small numbers right there was an illegal collection of votes which is slightly different. One candidate employed someone who was illegally gathering together and collecting mail votes. It's true that there are there are vanishingly rare cases in which someone attempts fraud and there has never been a case when even if the fraud had not been caught. that it would have changed the results of the election. So there is not a legitimate threat to election integrity from fraud. It is something that has been made up by trump and particularly attached to the idea of mail in ballots, which ironically are probably slightly more secure because there are more verification methods used in most states to confirm the eligibility of the voter and the integrity of the vote for mail ballots than there are in person ballots have. Signature requirements in some cases, witness requirements Affidavits and so on. The president has. Simply, asserted out of whole cloth that mail ballots are going to lead to widespread fraud. He is doing that because he knows that mail ballots take longer to count and his strategy is to say on election day that the count on election night is the final count that we need to know the result election night that if he's leading in state on election night, and then the count starts to change as additional votes are counted in a phenomenon known as the blue. Shift. Then that's illegitimate that that means that someone is trying to forge or steel or fraudulently at ballots that votes for his opponent. are quote unquote coming out of nowhere I and should not be counted and he's got to see seek to stop the count on election night right and I think the point that mail in ballots tend to be disproportionately democratic and are. Likely to be even more disproportionately democratic in this election is an important part of the president's thinking. Isn't it? Well the president actually has shaped that I. It is true that for about twenty years now the so-called overtime count, which is the count of the late reporting precincts, the provisional ballots and the and the mail in absentee ballots that overtime count has shifted towards Democrats for reasons that are not entirely explained by literature, but their technical ones that could get into if you wanted. Trump has accentuated that this year. By. Signaling to Republicans that he's against mail imbalance and that they're corrupt I and. My Sibling to Republicans as well that the COVID pandemic is not as serious as the scientists say it is and so Democrats concerned about their health are intending to use mail ballots at much higher rates than Republicans are because Republicans have been pushed away deliberately by trump from the mailing guys so that now a mail in ballot by proxy is likely likelier to be democratic ballot Because of underlying circumstances and because of trump's shaping of the electorate, and so his lawyers will know that if they are stopping the count of mail ballots, they are on balance on the certainly having the president. You say in the piece and I think it's self evident that we need to change the laws I mean a simple solution would be to make the. Winner of the National Popular Vote the president. But in any case, that's not gonNA happen now or before the election or before this sorted out. Short of that you say that there are things that we should all do to prepare for this maybe walk through some of that stuff short. So they're they're they're to piles of things to do to consider one is for. Is marked later, real reforms that could get keep us from getting into the sort mess as you mentioned. So you would certainly want to clear up the murky parts of the Electoral Count Act. So you know who's votes actually govern. If. There are disputed votes in the Electoral College. You'd like to fund election administrators so that they could operate they're counting process securely and more efficiently and more quickly on election day, you'd want to allow mail in ballots to be opened and processed before election I ideally we would get. A close approximation of the final result on the first day that's not going to happen this time and so I think. Because the mail in ballots are going to be so much the subject, of litigation. I've changed my own mind personally on how I'm GonNa vote I I'm going to vote in person because I think the worst case is that. the president is ahead on election night and a fuller count of the vote over coming days and weeks. shows that Biden wins That's a very bad case because you have the possibility of weeks of serious disturbance in between I. Think. Anyone who can volunteer to be a poll worker should do so. I. Think if you know anyone who is open to reason you should make sure they know that it's normal and natural and lawful and proper for the count to continue to change after election night and that it's short to do so. This time. But we have to make sure that. The vote is counted that all the votes are counted and that. The election is decided by the voters and not by some other magnates. Barton Gilman, thank you so much for speaking with us. Again. Thank you for having me. Barton Gilman is a staff writer for the Atlantic, his article, the election that could break America is in the November issue of the magazine and is available online at the Atlantic Dot. com. A few years ago Pianist Rini Rosina's organized an all star Band of jazz women called optimus and twenty seventeen. They did a European tour and played the Newport jazz festival. Their first album is now out our jazz critic Kevin Whitehead says it's strong. A. That's from big top by pianist really Roz Rosneft ringleader of the international intergenerational women's ban artists. It's from their CD of the same name. Super groups combining far-flung music stars don't always work with competing sensibilities in play. But the members of this band are in alignment. Mutual support is built into the way. The colorful warns may play scored passes behind Solos. And one Solos may dive in while another is still finishing up. So the action is non stop. Renew Rosina's and Trumpeter Ingrid. Jensen. The band artists to Canadians on Allison. Miller's goddess of the hunt. The backbone of any lively band is it's rhythm section. Rosina's piano and Miller's drums Lincoln with norico. USA's plumped sounding base. To. Through. Off. Artem Isreaeli Chilean read section is not Cohen on clarinets and Melissa Aldana on tenor saxophone. All six players right or range for the band. donnas composition Freda for artist Frida Kahlo uses one of the signature sounds of twenty-first-century jazz piano and Bass playing in tricky precise lockstep. Then Donna layers on blended horns which sound typically lush. One episode gives rise to the next. In short order, the music keeps moving and the textures change. Sex Artists sometimes adds the dynamic singers seal mclorin salvant an imposing presence on our own records. She's a less flamboyant player on appearances here on Stevie wonder's ballot if it's magic and the obscure maxine Sullivan Vehicle Cry buttercup cry so dry. Your tears and maybe be so tomorrow. A true love will have your way. leaving. Sorrow rain. So I have no regrets and just learn. How to cry? The Best Oldie here is Lee. Morgan's Bogu. The Sidewinder given a revamp. The nine, hundred, sixty, three, original smacked of Manley Swagger. Rini. Rosina's arrangement slows and calms down queuing up our friendly round robin for the three horns with Anat Cohen on bass clarinet. Ingrid Jensen on harmon muted trumpet really shines here. Pianist Greenie. Rosneft says, the seven musicians realized the band artists had a future. The first time they toured in two thousand seventeen. It didn't just sound good. They also got a long road enjoying each other's company that is just how artists sounds on their debut album. These jazz stars are cooperative not competitive. Kevin Whitehead is the author of the new book play the way you feel the essential guide to jazz stories on film you reviewed the new album artists by the all star Band of jazz women also called Artemis. Coming up. We hear from documentary filmmaker Kirsten Johnson about her new documentary Dick Johnson is dead. This is fresh air we will. There these networks of staunchly pro gun groups on Facebook, and one of them is run by his three brothers the door brothers. It turns out they don't just do guns. The door family name has been attached to other causes. Their goal is to eliminate public education and to replace it with Christians slowing the roots of the door family on the no compromise podcast from NPR. Rather. Mundi. Is NPR's only. Spanish. Language podcast stories won't hear anywhere else told by the voices that make Latin America come alive each week we bring you another remarkable story that will surprise you by. New episodes, every Tuesday listen and subscribe. Today we're going to listen to an interview, our producer Sam brigger recorded with documentary filmmaker. Kirsten Johnson let's Ram introduce it. Our Guest Kirsten. Johnson has a new documentary coming out on. NETFLIX's at the end of the week. It's called Dick Johnson is dead Dick. Johnson is our dad. And while he's not dead, he's eighty eight. The movie is about how they are both coming to terms with his dementia and with his inevitable death, and it's also a loving tribute to her dad's life. In order to help process his death Johnson stages, various accidents where her father dies like getting hit in the head by falling air conditioner unit tripping on a crack in the sidewalk or falling down the stairs. And Her dad acts out his demise in each of these staged accidents. The film is also about Johnson helping her father move out of his home and his psychiatric practice in Seattle. So he can live with her and her one bedroom apartment in New York City. Johnson's mother died from Alzheimer's Disease in two thousand and seven Dick Johnson is dead is the seventh movie Kirsten Johnson's directed. She's also been the cinematographer for over fifty documentaries including citizen for pray the devil back to hell and the oath in her twenty sixteen movie camera person. She took spare footage from her decades of work documentaries and edit them together and called it her memoir. I spoke to Kirsten Johnson. Monday. From her home in. New. York. Here's a clip from Dick. Johnson is dead were Kirsten and her data talking about his memory. Don't really. Notice. A big problem with my memory. It's more apparent to people around me than it is to me. You do. Worry that you'll be bird. Yeah. What does that mean to you? Nothing much more than than the it says. You know why? I I serve I'm living with you now. And I for you you're the you might get worse. You know. You might have to take care be more than you do now. But I'm I like living I'm not terribly worried about. Do you have any I mean there are some people who feel like. If it gets worse to certain plays I don't WanNa. Live. I loved too much for that. So you would you use the interested in living to the state that mom was in where she couldn't communicate? Yeah I think. So do you permission to euthanize me Permission to do that. Well I pass it by me before you do it. That's. That's the scene from Dick, Johnson this dead. And you hear Dick Johnson there and his daughter Kirsten Johnson who's the filmmaker Kirsten Johnson welcome to fresh air. Thank you Sam I'm just laughing because that really is my dad. In. All of his twists and earns. So how did you come up with the idea of making this movie where you kill off your dad and all these various accidental deaths? I'm the most. person in the world, and then I'm also like completely oppositional. So I never liked to think of ideas of as happening in one moment or coming from one place. So one of the primary places this came from was experience we had making my previous film camera person and this wonderful editor I work with nels. Benadir he placed shot of my mother alive after a shot of her ashes in a box and It so startled me I really had the impression that she came back to life and I just it was like how right cinema can do this? So that was part of the origin story, and then of course, I had a dream I'm like a big vivid dreamer and I had a dream in which I saw an open casket and a man who wasn't my father sat up and said, I'm Dick Johnson and I'm not dead yet. And that just felt like it just like clicked something in me of a wait a minute. My time is running out with him. And then how did you broach the subject with your? Dad? Ever since I was, you know pretty little with my dad we have. Kind of amazing conversations about all kinds of things but we're both really interested in psychology and we're both really into. Movies and sort of talking about like how is it that people behave this way or that way and I often will tell him my dreams and I told him I had that dream and it had given me this idea that maybe we could do his funeral before he really died and also could that be a movie in which he died and came back to life and we could just keep doing it until he really died like we'd have this project together for the rest of his life. And he laughed he gave. He. I. Mean He Kinda was honestly I mean I would say he is a modest person and like he is right in some ways, he's like that's not that interesting. What's going to happen and this movie and I was like, well, you're GONNA unexpectedly die. So that'll be interesting but he was not particularly interested in being the center of things but he was absolutely interested in doing something with me full time spending time together watching movies together Megan something. Funny. Together, I have to say when when I watched the movie for the first time knows home on my computer is where we watch movies these days and Your Dad's walking down the street and an air conditioner falls on his head and I knew it was that was going to happen but it totally took us by surprise and I just out of my seat started yelling. Is Not, prepared for the yelled. Why did you choose accidental deaths like there's a scene where you're talking to a stunt person about like other various ways, he could enact your dad's death and he's sort of is suggesting like a a stabbing situation. You're like, well, we're not really trying to do that. We're trying to do these accidents like why was that were you want? Well accidents happen right and. There is a way in which there's a part of me. That is the part of me from camera person I have like this profound respect for other people's suffering and you know when I think back over the course of my life and that many tragedies of people in the world I have encountered of terrible accidents happening to them or to their children or to their parents, and you know people are just devastated for the rest of their lives because something just you know could have been changed by an inch it wouldn't have happened right and then sort of creates a desperate if only I had feeling and what I initially. To big stones I wanted to catch on fire or you know I wanted to put him out on the is flow I. Want you know I want to Jackie Chan to help us because I really was interested also in this role of the stunt person because like with camera person, there's this sense that there's this invisible world of people who helped make things, and so I started thinking about stunned people and death like that they're literally risking their own lives. On. Behalf of being invisible in film. And for all of us to take it lightly on certain level, you know like Oh that movie star in just die of course but we're not thinking of the person who had to catch themselves on fire and like fall out of a building. So I did want to big stunts. But then once we started to do them it became really clear that my father's dementia was such that it would be really hard to do those stunts. And then suddenly the realization of. Wow. Well, this probably is the more likely way that he would die. and honestly. The first stunt we did was at home me and him just messing around and looking at the staircase where my mother had fallen and. She broke her hip and we didn't know it. She had Alzheimer's so that same staircase that had taken her down you know I was like deadly like lie down at the bottom of it, and once he did that like to see my eighty four year old father like laughing but also just the vulnerability of him laying himself out at the bottom of the stairs. Because I had asked him to both made me question the entire idea and also say This is this is potent. You say in the movie that you thought enacting his death would help you prepare for when it really came. Did it work that way or was it also like a distraction for you and him something to do together. So one like. Do like documentary filmmaking alight death emotions are so deeply unexpected. Right? Our own emotions are so deeply unexpected and as a parent always having this of just like why is this enraging May? It'll just flack you out of the blue like like a so mad at one of my kids because they weren't trying why did that matter so much to me you know and? One of the first huge surprises for me was after we did the funeral I woke up just so depressed. The Monday after we did the funeral and I realized like some of me had completely convinced myself. If we did the funeral really in the Church with my dad's friends, he would never die like I really realized Oh. That's what I thought. I was doing. The movies also about having to move your dad out of his house this is the home outside of Seattle, where you grew up getting him to shut down his psychiatry business and moving him into your apartment in New York. So all the way across the country precipitated that decision. We. Eased into knowing my mom's dementia, it took all of us. I would say a couple of years before we all finally admitted it to ourselves my father and mother were living together and I was traveling I was you know I was in Sudan and in Liberia and I would come home and I'd be like What's this doing this cupboard kind of? Thing but Mama really put on a pretty great performance whenever I would or my brother would come home and the same thing started to happen with father where I'm just like that's funny. I thought he mentioned that already but then his secretary called and she said you know Dr Johnson is double booked a patient again this week and he never does that. And she said the pharmacy and I think there's an issue with one of the prescriptions. So that was just like very serious news and then you know comes the. Crazy story of he got off an exit and somehow arrived home with four flat tires. We'll turns out he drove through a construction site and we got one of our friends, one of our neighbors to figure out like where he'd been and what had happened but it was a little bit of detective work and then he sort of laughed it off and it just was it was just like an odd story couldn't quite vet. and. They're started to be more and more things like that until suddenly just like, Oh this is happening but we did get a friend and his son were looking for a place to live for a while. So they moved into the House with Dad. For a couple of months and a totally verified things are not right. There's a scene I like to play. This happens in a lot of families where someone has gotten. Too To drive and clearly your Dad's case like he you know as you said, he got home with four flat tires like fortunately didn't hurt anyone but this is the kind of the confrontation where he's realizing that he's no longer going to be able drive in. That's that's really tough for some people to take solicits hear that clip. You've ever said you were taking the car away from me. It was said that we are selling the car 'cause you're moving to. NEW YORK? Yeah. was that. Right. That's all the. Who Sell at when and where? It's put it being put on craigslist this week. It's at the repair shop being finished right now. Tell me whether she. But you're not getting me far back I do know that never drivers again. No not that car. Maybe. Some other car. At the worst news ever not the worst pretty bad news. Yeah. y'All. I'm not far enough. GonNa I couldn't start model car. It's not about that. It's about the fact that you've moved into New York yeah I know can't leave the car. That's all but in between now and the couple of days. Okay Sorry. I know it hurts. Independence isn't it? Yeah Yeah. Related to how long was Received Hope. That feels like. Not. That bad it's not that bad. Bad. But that was bad l. more conscious than she was then. But. Credit for much more conscious. This we are. We just do not paying two thousand dollars to put a car in A. Rental car garages at York City. All I thought we'd. Seen from Dick Johnson's. Filmmaker Kirsten Johnson is our guest. Kristen that's. Yeah. That scene really tears me up when I watched it and the thing that the listeners not seeing as your dad is literally putting a good face to the situation like he keeps kind of smiling he's he's. Really trying to. You know accept the situation, but it's really hard for him and I. I love what you're doing there like you're. You're really trying to soften the blow. You know you're like, well, we're just not going to. Pay for the car like we're moving to New York. You don't use cars in New York he no like and you do that a lot. It's just. It's just a really sweet way. To handle this. Really hard situation I. Think. One of the people working on the film was saying to me. You're not from the Mid West you to like just try like I've just always trying to make each other feel better about all this, and that is certainly true anything because we went through with my mom, we both know what's coming. So it's so brutal. What's coming that? We? Both I think would be like we're not there yet. It's not that bad. Of course, I'm trying tactics like my dad. Notoriously does not want to spend. Large amounts of money for things. So I was just like It's two thousand dollars to have a parking garage in new. York you know like he's like, Oh, in that case, we don't want the car there. So so I do try all kinds of tactics and yet you know I have a dear friend killed singer whose mother had dementia and she said to me when my mom started to get it she said, you know some of these decisions you make too. Early or you make them too late, and that's how she got me to take my mom's driver's license away from her because I was like all right. My mom could run someone over but then my mother never forgave us for taking away the driver's license. She was so mad about that all the way like after she'd forgotten everything she was still mad about that. So I was really scared to get my dad to stop driving I. Didn't know how going to do it. So. Do you see like an erasure of Your Dad's personality or do you see like as crystallization of him like how do you come to understand what the is doing to him? It's too in so many things to him. I mean he is distilled to his essence. Which I would say you know he can call me multiple times in a day and simply say to me I'm just checking to see if you know that I love you. And that is who he has been. My entire life right just affirming that. All of these words are applicable I. do think the loss of his capacity to have an extended conversation an analytic conversation. It's a profound loss for him and for me I mean my biggest conundrums, the most challenging problems for me. I could go to my dad just say like I wanna lay this out for you. And I don't understand why I'm behaving in this way I don't understand what's happening and he he could just like break it apart and ask questions never never judge never give me even advice just ask questions that then allowed me to think okay i. see what's going on here. And so that I have definitely lost and he is definitely lost. But every once in a while, I can still come in with like A. He'll just go deep analytic and be right in there for the length of that question. So I can get it. You know. So in some ways, it's taught me new ways to think and talk and interact with him. Kristen Johnson thanks so much for being fresh air. Sam This has been such a pleasure. Thanks a lot. Kirsten Johnson's newest film is called. Dick Johnson is dead. It's now streaming on Netflix. Fresh air weekend is produced by Teresa Madden fresh. Air's executive producer is Danny Miller our engineer and technical director is Audrey. Bentham our interviews and reviews produced and edited by Amy Salad Phyllis Myers Roberta shorrock brigger Lauren Crandall Heidi Soman they challenged seth. Kellyanne. Kayla lattimore. Associate producer of digital media is Molly seavy Nesper for Terry Gross entities.

Kirsten Johnson president Donald Trump Dick Johnson New York City Barton Gilman Kevin Whitehead Joe Biden NPR fraud America staff writer Supreme Court Al Gore Florida Kristen Johnson NETFLIX
#245: True/False, Pt. 1  F For Fake

The Next Picture Show

55:15 min | 10 months ago

#245: True/False, Pt. 1 F For Fake

"Hello next picture show listeners. Here's a friendly reminder that if you enjoy the next picture show, you'll really enjoy getting more next picture show by subscribing to our patron. You can get our weekly newsletter for three dollars a month and unlock bonus episodes for five dollars a month we recently released our first folding audio commentary. This one for pilgrims says a world and we got some more in the works and upcoming bonus episodes that will include chat about Class Action Park and some surprises to subscribe to our patriotic please visit patriae dot com slash next picture shall. Keep the mind line between the past. Leads US someone out of the past. And turn take station of the we may be through the past, but the blast is not through with us. Welcome to X. Picture Show our movie the week podcast a classic, and how it shaped our thoughts on a recent release. I'm Keith tips here with Scott Tobias genevieve Caskey and Tasha Robinson with American movie theaters still largely close continuing to focus on quarantine moment pairing films you can find on vod cable television or streaming services or put another way ladies and gentlemen way of introduction. This week, this is a podcast about trickery fraud about lies to tell it on a pair of Ear Buds Bluetooth headphones or computer speakers. Almost any podcast is almost certainly some kind of lie but not this time this is a promise for the next. Oh, forty minutes or so depending on how smoothly this goes everything here from us is really true and based on solid fact. This is usually podcast about lies, but isn't it Tasha? Isn't it isn't almost every kind constructed narrative type of lie. And you Tasha Robinson, how our listeners to know if it's really you providing the insights voice, they listen to with each episode. That's not some kind. Of Laborat- hoax have it's it's not it's really me but does it matter Tasha in the end aren't the notions of originality authority themselves illusions with this podcast be any less than for entertaining if our listeners discovered had been created and. Performed by others I'm starting to worry that you're going to confuse our listeners. Will I yeah okay. Tasha, can you tell us about the pairing discussing over the next two episodes in the early nineteen seventies French director Francois Reichenbach approached Orson Welles about editing and narrating his current work in progress a documentary about the notorious art forger L. Mira horry whose life had recently been recounted by biographer. Clifford Irving in the nineteen sixty-nine book fake things took a turn when irving was himself exposed as a fake after attempting published an autobiography of the reclusive tycoon Howard Hughes prompting wells to reconsider the film as a fast paced rumination on fakery authenticity art, his own career and storytelling by placing one foot in the documentary world and win in the world of Fiction Afra-. Fake helped claim. A space between the forms that others would occupy after him, it's become especially fertile territory in recent years playing host to films like Carson Johnson's new Dick Johnson is dead a documentary about her dying father that doubles is a consideration of the power of movie making. So this week, we'll look at F for fake in our next episode will bring in Dick Johnson is dead or will we? We will but please join US anyway. Support for this podcast comes from state farm with surprisingly great rates. State farm is the real deal when it comes to home and car insurance state farm agents are in your neighborhood ready to help personalize your insurance and you can manage your coverage, pay your bill or even file a claim right from your phone with the state farm mobile APP visit state, Farm Dot com today to get a great without sacrificing great service that state farm dot com when you want the real deal like a good neighbor state farm is there who is All fakers. Is Number Two I. Never offered the painting or a drawing to museum. WHO DIDN'T But personal stories about are. Very. Mixed South. As the great. Of The twentieth century, he comes modern folk hero for the rest of us on Islam money boss. Special News Flash from Washington. Any moment now President Roosevelt. A delegation from Mars bars peace talks are expected. Phenomenal time. Where's the best place to start talking Orson Welles is F for fake we start by discussing the magic tricks that opens the film one which he performs some sluggish hand declares magicians are actors playing the part of magicians. Really. We could probably just impact that idea for episode or it could fast forward to the end after the one hour mark before which wells tell no lies to consider the. Story of Olea Code. Ours affair. With. Pablo Picasso and Howard, brought a Picasso to the bed of her dying grandfather an art forger who'd want claim for his forgeries of Picasso's it's a good story in a fairly convincing lie when cooked up by Kadar who's actually mistress not to Picasso but to Wells Wells Incorporated it and Dr into his movie or you could just talk about elmer to hurry and Clifford. The to phonies that inspired the film in the first place or Chartres Cathedral. The gothic masterpiece of prompts wells to recite a moody wraps lead ourself and odd aside and movie that occasionally seems to suggest that truth and beauty are just illusion spun by in Wells' words. Hanky Panky. Men like himself or is it a not aside as a single representative of humanity's achievement an example of why we? Should quote go on singing even with the awful knowledge that time will silence her songs wells chooses a collective creation with no credit author were sculptors, glaziers, engineers in Mason's toward a common goal over many years work interrupted occasionally by fires wells do something have start and stop projects and having watched films that had been taken away from him released with his name still attached he understood artistic frustration f. For fake was the last film wells were completed his lifetime one made at the end of the filmmaking career that began assist Kane and ended an unrealized projects in wine commercials. Wells Dame once synonymous with vendor achievement had taken on other connotations over the years but maybe to quote wealth again, a man's name doesn't matter all that much. So what does across eight whirlwind minutes? Wells presents one forgery after? Another to Horry Faking Matisse Modigliani and Picasso Irving Picking Hughes Wells himself flipping its way into an acting career in Ireland fooling terrified radio asserts with his radio dramatization of the world's itself a kind of documentary edited in a fashion that still seems aggressive nearly fifty years after its completion in nineteen seventy-three and after deputy watching Michael Bay movies effort fake seems less interested in getting to the bottom of. Irving's exceptions peppering viewers with pieces of those exceptions in a fashion. As confusing as swirled event itself is more interested in asking questions and answering them if an invitation Picasso matches the original, what makes it lesser? Can a forgery outdo original to what degree do we use narrative to make sense of the world? Can a man really eat stake after consuming a whole lobster? Another question. What sort of movie is this this criterion? Collection Essay about effort fake critic Jonathan Rosenbaum recalls lunching with wells as a young film writer living in Paris at the very seafood restaurant scene in the film and fat and Wells telling him his latest project would be quote not documentary a new kind of film. The result plays a bit cinematic magic trick bit misdirection. Sets viewers to think about two cases of forgery. They'd read about in headlines in the years and you have to the film's release. Then lifts the curtain to reveal that those are just two stories within a larger story about why we create art. What the art we create means a why you if it's all just an elaborate Kagame on one level or another, it still matters. Support for this podcast comes from cdw and HP. At cdw. We get an unsecured laptop can put your company's data at risk making you a little paranoid. I'm apparently you're paranoid CDW can implement a secure mobility solution using the HP elitebook with Intel Generation Processors and view privacy to protect your stream from prying eyes. Did you follow me here it orchestration? By cdw people who get it find out more at CDW DOT COM SLASH HP security. What was that? Like most of the Hughes legends something you hear nothing you can prove but for what it's worth. It seems that hotel bungalow was supposedly the HQ of that Rubber Spooky? Brigade. Of Midnight Minions, we used to call Howard's secret police. That's where that tree comes in just precisely. At one thirty every morning who knows how many years some chosen operative placed at precisely the same angle. Small and very carefully rent. Can You let's talk about this movie. There's a lot to unpack here what everyone's history with this film Tasha out we'll start with you 'cause i. knew that had trouble getting through the first couple of times and I love this movie. So let's Let's go how. Did you have to come around? Still still really no fan of this film. This is the first time I'd made it all the way through the The first time I tried I fell asleep the second time I tried I just couldn't find solid ground in it. I suppose the way it's edited. It's so dizzying it jumps around between so many different topics and so many different ideas and knowing the history of some of the things that this film is touching on makes it. Frustrating. When it the whole films feels like a shaken cage of birds that aren't allowed to light on anything for for very long. Wellesley interrupts himself. He interrupts other people he interrupts shots, he interrupts thoughts it's such a distracted jumble of a film. Now towards the latter half of the film, the part that I really latched onto which didn't make it to the first two times is when he just starts model logging when he settles down long enough to give that just very poetic monologue about how we need to carry on creating art because we're all going to die that is mesmerizing. It's like having poetry read to you by somebody with. A John Houston Ian mckellen somebody with a really Sonera and a compelling waste and a lot of gravitas. Well. Sin Wells if you haven't having Orson Welles laying around. Laid out that there's actually one of my favorite passages in any movie ever, and I think some debris. It's so powerful that any misgivings about the rest of movie they can just kind of go by the wayside because that exists you know. Sorry. I feel the same way about that last twenty minutes about that at the Incredible Story About Picasso and the kind of like puckish way in which it's told with the the. Walking back and forth, and the repeated is of Picasso. Being shown through a blinds dishing. Repeated is of Picasso in in various artistic ways being shown through the blinds as though he's staring at her the way that entire sequences told I find honestly really funny and then it's a great story and then of course, the Rug Paul which I was expecting because I was paying attention and when he says at the beginning, the next hour will feature no lies you immediately have to think this is a ninety minute movie. So I didn't take it as truth for a single second, but it's a great story. It's really well told and between those two things. Li lives you on a high note like a strong note about this film. There's some great stuff in it. There's some really interesting thoughts. There are teases for stories that you can go look into and unpack the story of the Howard Hughes, hoax, for instance, perhaps by watching the film, The hoax starring Richard Gere which unpack that whole thing in in great detail. But as a film as a an essay as documentary as an argument to me it just. It's like water just like that first hour is just trying to pick up a handful of water for me. Birds Water. Birds if no. It's almost like you just finish watching effort fake and you just have these metaphors the need to escape. It's a very poetic. I'm creating art in talking about effort vague because I'm GONNA die. Someday. Well, I don't think my explanation of my reaction will be as poetic as Tasha's was, but we have pretty similar reactions. I, actually had not seen after fake before I certainly knew of its reputation and kind of had a vague idea of what I was in four and that didn't really make go down any better I responded to the same sequences that you've already called out the the charter fedral monologue. I like that you call it a rhapsody. Keith as a very good word to describe it and ending bit with the Story About Picasso was definitely probably the most compelled I felt by the film even though like Tasha I knew what the turn was going to be, but just the way, not only the sort of the story telling part of it was shot. But also when it evolves into this kind of back and forth between wells and code are playing roles other than themselves and talking. Back and forth in the sort of like foggy atmospheric sound stage like environment that was really compelling. But by that point, the film had already sort of lost me in terms of like any real connection I felt to it, and I probably in hindsight should have watched this before Dick. Johnson is dead not to get ahead of ourselves but that film has such a strong emotional center and I do generally respond to films with the very strong emotional or. Or character core, and there isn't really one F for fake you know and so i. felt that absence really strongly after watching Dick Johnson dead think I'd watch many other order I. Don't think I would have necessarily liked for fake anymore but I wouldn't have felt I felt very frustrated with this movie I felt like I was being condescended to because I could definitely recognize it as a film making exercise and respect what it was doing and editing and Sort of this nonstop. To keep the audience off balance on you know and weaving the spell this magic spell. But felt I was having a trick played on me and I honestly felt kind of resentful. About it and I don't think that would hurt feelings at all I think he would enjoy that I had that reaction, but it didn't make for a pleasant viewing experience Scott's. So. Yes Wall. So so yeah, it's the history with his film. I saw I saw it along with a bunch of other wells in in college. I. Felt at the time that it was kind of a doodle and of course, completely blown away by canonical wells by citizen Kane, I touch of evil magnificent Emerson's lady from Shanghai. And then I kind of like had a little more trouble at the time getting into your later wells when things were more obviously damaged compromised in incomplete in certain respects but watching this today Kind of blew my mind. Say I really really had a good time with it? I mean, it's just. I think I would say you know I agree with Torsion genevieve. I guess in order what the strongest parts of the film were I mean that Cathedral sequences Y-, the obvious standout an incredible though I think the rest of the film conceptualizes that. you know in a in the last stories so clever and of course, cleanly told in a way that the first part isn't but I just think that as a piece of. Filmmaking and deconstruction, and the you know and also just an. Foam of personal expression, it's kind of miraculous I mean like you know it's wells trying to figure out how can he make an essay film a personal film? Through scraps through somebody else's art through his own net, he's found basically he's found a form. That completely fits him. It's like he's tailoring his own cinematic suit. With a for fake in some ways. Almost a better pairing with camera person. There that indicates is dead. Yeah that's true. No but I mean I think both Dick Johnson is dead and camera person our. SAS stick and definitely of a piece with each other. But I think you're probably right in the sense that camera person is. Made up entirely of exactly one hundred percent, right? It's it's all be role but yeah. So so in the same spirit but I, just. Feel like you're just this is just the essence of wells and point in his career is life. It's such a great kind of final film I. Mean I guess you could say now the other side of the wind is this final film but this was for quite a while and and it just feels like a nice. Landing. Spot for a career that was kind of messy but full of fitfully extraordinarily brilliant and I don't know. Time with despite its flies to bring in another part of the film that did work for me more than that other parts is like win wells was engaging with his own work with four of the world's and into citizen Kane and. On how that all fits into this theme of trickery sleight of hand what whatever. But there was just there was just all this other stuff you know obscuring that and it's just I understand the exercise of bouncing around between all these different moving parts but I kept feeling left by like I want more of that like. Can we stick with that for a minute and I felt like that too with the whole Clifford Irving thing because that was not a story I was familiar with before watching this movie I think it was maybe a little too early to be on my radar in like I went and looked it up after watching it sounds like Oh. Yeah. I totally understand why this story fits in here but it's like mashed. With like three other stories and you can't really track it in any satisfying way. So if you don't already know it which to be fair probably most of the people watching this movie at the time did have that context. But if you're looking to know more about that, this film is not going to give that to you just like it's not going to give you more than three minutes of wells you know talking about war of the worlds and how it fits into this idea he has for this film. Is Fine Wells great company I mean I i. like you know I I know he's kind of messing around with us the entire time but but I I enjoy you know I feel like I'm in the hands of someone who is kind of a master of doing that and finding a new way to do it I mean I I was going to bring up the question that you've kind of touched on. Scott. which was how does this look in context of wells is other work because it it almost I mean is so well through and through. stylistically, it's such an outlier to area maybe the other side of the wind kind of makes more sense. As as you know, there's a little bit more of that in this and vice versa than than we knew you know for years when when the other one wasn't available but. You know it is sort of a a late career attempt to dislike rip it up and start all over again in some ways this reminded incredibly of my experience watching the other side of the wind, the editing just kind of feels very of peace with it. I feel like wells kind of got credit for reinventing cinema with citizen Kane, and then spent the rest of his career sort of trying to reinvent cinema in ways that didn't work nearly as well as kind of the juxtaposition and suggestions and structure and kind of like formalism of citizens can this feels like an attempt to reinvent cinema? As this kind of like. A hoppy series of suggestions rather than statement it's like he's trying to reinvent editing as this. Again, I'm going to come back to like it's like it's like a flock of birds flying pastor face. You're trying to see them all at once and I just don't think the cinematic language here is as compelling as some of his other. Kind of more what we would now call maybe traditionally edited films although they weren't considered traditionally edited at the time the more or less are I mean I you know I of some of those early. Citizen Kane, magnificent Emerson's a touch of evil. These are all you know. Fairly conventionally edited films I. Think He'd just hang. In there are also they're also showy in experimental and for sure but I in a different but I think in a little bit of a different way. But yeah, no of course, he was always pushing the art. I always felt though that Susan Cain was less a kind of reinvention the form than a summation of where cinema had gotten to that point like he just took everything all the advancements that had happened in every part of the the the art form of just kind of like incorporated into this thing into this know it was almost like the end of an era the start of a new era we should do citizen Kane sometimes I like that movie. I heard tonight. It's so weird that the two wells films we've done have been these extreme outlier. Yeah. There's they are strange and you know and but I think you know most is that the use of the knockabout way that things kind of went for him? Later in his career is very much in the fabric of this movie and I think that he feels compelled by his own dare you to push it like he does I mean, he he wants to constantly you play with foreign play with editing reveal layer after layer after layer show. Layers of truth layers of artifice he you know he's constantly moving in this film. It's very restless and I guess we do feel grateful. For when he slows down, you know with the cathedral sequence with the last you know bit involving Picasso but. It just revealing it's cool that he's kind of found a way to kind of use the tools of the medium into US other footage. To Express something personal, I think also you know getting to make a film was so rare that is going to be over with ideas in some ways like I wanted to try this isn't this. This is the one movie I'm getting. I. Know to makes your they all are it was. Like. At this point was trying to make a bunch of films like I'm not like he had. So many like sort of unfinished works at this point right in you know like like restless feels like a very good word to describe not just this film but just maybe where he was filmmaker at this point and I think this movie definitely telegraphs that feeling. Yeah. After this, he'd soon he'd return to Hollywood and and have a lot of false starts and then narrate a long-term documentary wine commercials that. I heard for fake was his final film but he finished a documentary called filming of fellow that got an actual theatrical release after this I haven't seen it but. Apparently, that's his actual last completed film. Yeah. Yeah. I considered the nursing that when I considered a, is there another thing to hear were given the time the Scott made given the the the seventies when we which was such a kind of a renaissance for young exciting. New filmmakers pushing the the you know at the edge of what studio film films could be was is there an element of this just like wells coming in and saying I can do this to? Resume of what what premature was trying to do with like Skidoo. I'm hip guy and I'm like I I still got it kind of a good version of. Sexy mistress. Right there's kind of like this sort of the old guys still got it quality, but there's also feels removed from that Arab is you know you never talk about F for fake you know in the same breath as you talk about, you know whatever scorsese, Coppola Maltman and those types of people were doing at the time immediate. It's just he's kind of his own little island with this thing, but it still feels related not only to American films but also to what the you know the the French were doing as well. Separately, singles I, WANNA. Talk about which was not well received at the time or it was sort of there's faint praise I'm. Hasn't champions, but also some hostility Roger Ebert called it minor wells, but it feels like it's reputation just keeps going up up over the years Why do you think that is I mean I'm going to be blunt about this I if he died and what what felt like a small film in a what could potentially be still along filmography because he was working on so many big ambitious projects he was forever trying to get back to the level of those big game changing features they never materialized, and suddenly this is a completed work with a completed idea and also expressly film about creating. Art To live on after your death instead of something that just seems like a by way in a larger career I mean there are ways in which we can only really look at the totality of somebody's career. When we know it's the totality of their career and I think that part of the renovation of this movie's reputation just kinda comes down to taking it in a more sentimental late like seeing the ways in which it kind of comments on and feels continuous with his life and just knowing that he wasn't going to produce like eight more films that were far more towering tremendous than this. I would put a different spin spin on that in that I do think that. Orson Welles has had to deliver the career that he's had in order for this film to make any sense right? It's not. It's not some standalone thing that we can look at and analyse outside of the context of everything that he'd done before I mean the film, the film itself really doesn't allow us to do that but I think also he you know my explanation would be that the film is just ahead of its time I mean. The idea of of kind of mixing fiction or non non fiction itself had not gotten to a point where F for fake is that really where you could kind of start to reveal some of the devices of the medium be up front about the fact that film is full of truth and lies no matter whether it's fiction films. Nonfiction films I mean he's revealing these lines that were understood as more sancrosanct to that at the time then than they are now we have like true false, which is where I saw Dick Johnson's dead This is kind of like the perfect true false film and that it's in that in that zone but I don't think a lot of movies were in that zone, and so I think we kind of caught up to it that would be my. More optimistic glass half full kind of interpretation did actually have the passing thought if I wondered if true false was named like in tribute to this film considering the you know it's home to many unconventional documentaries Yeah I don't fiction films they they've They've they've done some fiction films there that have been like the writer was there because the rider is kind of is sort of a hybrid movie. Another possible answer to Wyatt's its reputation has has changed over time and I'm I'm stealing from the criterion essay that that you mentioned in in the keynote Keith but Rosenbaum mentioned just that this is a very home-video friendly movie that it rewards not just rewatching watching but being able to kind of freeze frame and and study what it is that wells is doing in the editing room here you know and I can't personally speak to that because I haven't watched it a second time and I haven't watched it in that way, but I can certainly understand especially if you're. Looking at this, not necessarily as a a movie that you sit down and enjoy but as a movie that you sit down and like experience and study, and it's think of it as like a text than, I can definitely understand finding it more rewarding being able to sort of study at in that way, and that takes time. You know that's not the experience that people experiencing it for the first time in cinemas. What have home video also lets you pop it in and skipped. I if you WANNA talk about studying bits of it, like the ability to just kind of like jump forward and listen to that monologue will I seems valuable to me honestly a like I would not want to go back into theater and sit through that first hour of wild jumping around in order to get to the part where Orson Welles reads me the world's grimace cynical most beautiful Lullaby, and now is the point where I break Scott's heart and wonder if that sequences on Youtube and if you can just watch it there. Duck in the ipod touch days a couple of scenes on my ipod touch one of them. To have. A Very Keith Phipps story like. Can we can we talk a little bit how smug this movie and I I find? It condescending. Belly on your team there. So here's the thing though like when we talk about how much it feels like a wells movie and and how it fits into wells cinematography I just. Everything I know about him everything I've seen of him even his his presence in his own projects has always felt kind of smug and superior to me, and maybe it's just a persona. Maybe it's just the way he holds himself but he gives us that little like wink wink moment where he talks about how some some are just have to deal with being called. Pretentious. And you you know that he's referring to himself but I i. think he earns that label I just don't find him that pleasant a presence like when it comes to show men lifting the curtains, you can get a little peek beyond I. Don't get the feeling that he's. He's kind of pulling up Penn and teller and saying like isn't it? Isn't it interesting to know how it all works he comes across far more as you know come little girl I will escort you. The the world that you are far too naive to understand as if you can keep up. Yeah and what tentative was saying about his son Horde of my beautiful mistress who is beautiful in every way like that that feeling of it it just the whole movie to me just feels like a little smarmy and I I feel like one of the reasons that the cathedral monologue lands is because it feels like he puts aside that character and if he's not being sincere there at least he's acting sincere he's he's leaning into the emotion of. Both despair ambition of fear of death and defiance of death in a way. That's. Moving and compelling and relatable in a way an awful lot of his check this out. You're going to be quite surprised at what we have for you here say is the ultimate showman like that kind of stuff just doesn't land for me nearly the same way. You'll be thinking of Orson. Welles is a precursor to the guys on social media. Now, try to imagine Orson Welles on social media and I I don't I don't think it would be a good fit in wells putting his weekly cinema sins. I I will say like, I one hundred percent agree with what Tasha saying. But also earlier when Keith us you said something about like it kind of Nice to spend time with wells I think are affect also kind of. You know muttered agree agreeing noises we not right genevieve. So I'm kind of puzzle out the distinction there because like I think the Times in this movie were I liked wells the most and win that persona were trying best was when we saw him actually in an editing room, you know and I really liked that the film kind of has these moments of him. I don't know if it's an actual editing sweeter if it's our stage you know but I felt in maybe it's just because editing is such editing as a character in this movie. If I want to be wealthy and pretentious about it. But that's when it felt like he was holding court and I actually Kinda wanted to listen to him and see what he had to say in this context of this story like thing that he was trying to craft for us. But win he is in the film she is like you know at parties you know at the restaurants in voiceover talking about like that's when that smarmy Aquinas came out but when he was like kind of just Isolated in the editing booth, that's where the the wells persona worked for me. I. Think you could say that there was a point in Orson Welles adult life when he wasn't. The center of attention when he wasn't the genius and he was a genius legitimate boy genius. At the center of the Mercury Theatre you know he's just a commanding presence in. So this is a continuation of that is a continuation of wells sort of holding court in once tolerance for that I. Guess has to do with one's level of affection for wells and what he represents but I do think the cathedral seen again becomes a very important counterpoint to all of it. Because it is a moment of genuine self face meant yo a literally a discussion of the fact that the person who made the art ultimately does not matter. The Art is GonNa last what before wh- long after that person has gone and the name, the name of the person who created it isn't is going to be important and for somebody like Orson Welles, you know the ultimate. Autour, to say such a thing as a striking I, think you know. Especially in the context of this movie were again, he is the center of attention this his movie. Through and through he is the one you know holding court with us you know and with other characters on the screen much of the time. So I I mean I like I like the juxtaposition between. Wells is, do you expect him as a center of attention perhaps smarmy or if if you're not a fan or perhaps inspiring at certain times but very much himself then he kind of gets to that moment where. He reflects on that a little bit and I think that's powerful on some level. While watching this I kept expecting him to pull back the curtain further. So, much of what he's talking about in terms of trickery in sleight of hand and the way the I lies is just so fundamental to moviemaking. You know where you have a shot side by side and they look like they're one character moving from one room to the other but they were definitely shot in different days. They were probably shot in different cities and in different locales a and it's seamlessly edited together. Because he goes on so much about like trickery and magic and the imagination, and not trusting what you see and how everybody's a fraud in the first act that little trick with the white screen to seem. So telling to me and I keep waiting as watching for him to point out just the the trickery of it I I don't trust anything I'm seeing I don't trust it. All of these party scenes were actually shot at a party. When wells himself is talking the voice never quite batches his mouth movements. I said, it was all agr later and maybe not a particularly well but because of what it is I, kept thinking that that was maybe part of it that there was more to it that there was deliberate fakery going on somewhere in there, and especially in the Picasso through the blinds sequence I kept thinking are these all actual Picasso paintings I should know like are these was? Painted just for this film I feel like there's a story in that montage I feel like there's a story in every montage in this film and I felt like it would be. Possibly more interesting to me than the film itself would just be like a blow by blow of wells in the editing room talking about Mike wear this footage actually came from and we're actually seeing here it just it feels like it was put together out of so many pieces and parts and that the trickery of it is just kind of fundamental part of. The trickery of cinema itself. It seems like yet another really interesting thing that the film just doesn't really delve into enough. You know I find it interesting that we've been talking about this film for going on forty minutes now, and we've talked so much about wells and so little about to horry and Irving, and even oil code are like you know for as much. As is going on in this movie as many different threads as there are. It's all about wells. You know like, of course, we don't learn more about this art forgery story because that's really not what this movie is about. It's about like a wild hair got up his buddy wanted to like follow his cinematic. And he successfully did that and he didn't maybe successfully tell us the story of this art forger in a satisfying way but he did. Make a very interesting portrait of Orson Welles. At this point, he also gets a really interesting portrait of the art world and the. By the end of the film, it sounds like fifty percent of everything, an museum or the hands of private collector, right? But I don't know if that's true. I mean he tells you all true but like the film doesn't act like it's true. That's the first hour. I tried to look for actual answers to horry paintings, turnover museums, and I could look deep red and really finding time don't closes out I I. Think I think we're GonNa have the same answer this question but maybe I'm wrong where was the first time you encountered Orson Welles at like his his films or him as his presence in personally I, think just one answer it has to be the muppet movie right? We're all kind of. You're a little younger but like. Genevieve the rest of us are had to be the muppet movie, right? It's a good question. I think it had to have been I. mean there's there's a very small chance that it was a transformers the movie where he will, he voices the planet you. By then I don't I don't know which those came first for me I'm assuming that the muppet movie did and that's I didn't get the joke as I didn't get so many of the cameo jokes in that moving. Yeah it's that'd be watching them up. With my kids, it's like look Charles dirtying. But. Like it would've been muppet movie for me to as well. But I have extremely strong memories of me and my best friend at the time as like God, I must have been like fifteen or so You know renting citizen Kane and a because we'd heard it was the greatest film of all time and watching it. So I saw Siddique pretty early before sign anything else you know muppets actually wasn't part of my childhood very much something I kind of came to to later in life. So muppet movie was I don't think my first exposure to to wells and I I didn't see citizen Kane until college or Grad school, but my first exposure to him like as a person. Came through cartoons where so much came from specifically the many many parodies of the frozen peas. Commercial. and. In a maniacs had a frozen peas bit that critic had of frozen peas bit I believe well, Futurama came a little later by that point I was I was already more well-versed but or wells versed. But yeah, like you know until I was a you know solidly an adult I think my perception of wells was mostly as this sort of. Silly John Character, which is kind of sad. You know and you know we we learn and we grow as people. But if we're talking about first experiences that that was my. Brain really commits to it to that is a joke for not just for just like an injured for grownups on the kid shows joke for certain subclass of of really nerdy crowd upset a kid show I mean that's that's an maniacs in. House for you. I really strong memory of of felonies of show on HBO called the man who saw tomorrow, which he narrated which is. Especially, if you are eight or nine as I was when I, wash it terrifying trip through the prophecies poster Donelson the coming the apocalypse. Sure. Hit before the end of the eighties. It's Still probably after the muppet movie. But in fifth grade we had a social studies teacher of all things who didn't entire unit on science fiction and played US segments of the the wells war of the worlds to kind of explain to us. It's a lot like the the classes that kids get today in understanding falsity on the Internet it was very much like that. It was fundamentally here's a science fiction story, but we're not listening to it because it's a science fiction story were listening to it because it's a great example of how naive people can be how easily deceived people can be why it's important to fact check why it's important to you. Check your surroundings and pay attention to clues and consider the source it was. It was again kind of an early exercise in cynicism courtesy of wells but they would it had a huge impression on me when I was young the idea when you're that young, it's certainly possible to have an illusion that adults know everything that there have an almost magical ability to tell truth from falsehood. That they're they're responsible and about adult, and then you hear a story like that you realize a maybe grownups are just making it all up as they go along to maybe they don't know anything like how could so many people be fooled in such a Broadway and to such a huge degree and that's in some ways. That's kind of well one of. Their wells big legacies here and in his other work is just kind of pointing out how easily people are lead and deceived and toyed with that brings us full circle in a good place to wind this down for now, we'll be a no that will be talking about it more in our second half as the that's how the podcast is structured after all. I'm. Just going GONNA throw out the structure. Yeah exactly we'll be right back up to the break. Nelson for feedback, rush listeners weigh in with their responses to recent episodes anything else in the world of film we're hoping to get some more feedback Charlie Kaufman double feature since there's a lot to impact with, we should deal with one issue issue pronunciation. That the university some feedback of Hey, you're saying that wrong Tasha address that. I honestly as God as my witness did not know that there was a difference in pronunciation between Schenectady and sanctity. Selected. Duckie, more time here than ECK duck key how do I in fact, was was deliberately aiming Schenectady because it helped me remember how to pronounce a word that is not pronounced anything like the way it looks but you know a number of people word into let me know that I was wrong about that and then I. I actually checked it on of course I was wrong about that. So. We'll try to get it right and we love her little PA- dance don't. Want. This one. This one is straight up. You know it's it's lake is if I actually participant Yeah this I mean this is basically me looking at a a perfectly chromium late word in pronouncing it as a city. I mean. It's not. It's not that pedantic to point out that these words are not the same which I did not realize maybe we should start a another comments email address. That's just pedantry at next picture. Definitely start one that's just mispronunciations actress show because that is something that's haunted us like we we all occasionally have problems with how particular people's names are pronounced. That's just kind of an ongoing thing we also got called out on. TORONTONIANS TORONTO IN. in response to our Scott Pilgrim. Traffic Different. Sure. That wasn't a joke because the supposedly right word for it seemed to be Toronto Toe to toe eons like it just seems to have too many somehow. Toronto in. TORONTO. Apparently not. Dome Pizza Place. al-sari, can I feel bad for our community? Based problem here is anything involving cities and we should pretend that nothing actually takes place in inner interview space in a real city. No no cities will be harmed in the making further episodes. Well, a real city you we do know exist is London don't letter from London about that episode. Jerry can you share that one share Matthew writes I know the Tasha brought this movie up in the most recent But I had to talk about synthetic New York and why it's a better pairing than being John Malkovich for I'm thinking of ending things I was a little puzzled by the choice of Malkovich when I see ending things almost a remake of cynic Deke or at the very least an echo I feel like Charlie. Kaufman read the an read book thought Hey this is like that movie I directed and then thought maybe I could do it again. thematically, all three films to explore art in similar ways but aging and growing old are way more important in ending things. Selectively, the tone is obviously much closer largely from them both being directed by Kaufman, but the biggest similarity that may be double take was the inclusion of the character of an elderly cleaner whose identity becomes blurred with our main character toward the end of the movie before they are guided toward death. That's the kind of hyper specificity that warrants a letterbox list. And then there's Jesse Plemmons, his entire performance, which I love is very similar to what Philip Seymour Hoffman dozen Sonetti right down to the mannerisms not to mention the physical similarities between the two, which is so big that it gets a mention on Jesse Plemmons wikipedia page alongside Matt. Damon. Of course, if often were still alive today, I can picture Kaufman casting him as the janitor actually one of my biggest disappointments with ending things shift in perspective from Jessie Buckley to Jesse plummets. Jessie Buckley while still very much playing a sort of Kaufman persona felt pretty fresh in comparison to the rest of the mopey sad man who as the usual Kaufman protagonists. So to see the movie abandoned her the end was kind of disappointing and why am attempting to ignore the most popular theory about what it all means if the movie was about a woman who realized that she's a fictional creation I'd be on board instead it becomes about the man who created her, which is far less interesting when he's cut from the same Kaufman Cloth Kaufman cloth. Often. I would respond to this in two ways in terms of I think that the points that are made here are all. Well. Taken incorrect in this certainly plenty of connections perhaps more that you could draw between soon executing York and I'm thinking things than being John Malkovich and I'm thinking you're many things but I think are Not, to speak for everyone but I, I would say one. This is our shot at Charlie Kaufman. So like one that we think we had an instinct to really kind of go back. To where things started with with him and I think that being John Malkovich. Really. Starts Your defines sensibility that has been seen through. You know so many movies sense then. So yeah, and then related to that is that it's actually New York is pretty recent for us to Quebec to afford it classic status. I mean. We've made some exceptions in the past, but at least a being John Malkovich is in a different century. So I think those would be two reasons why would have chosen that over What what do you think? Am I right on this gang also just it's beloved film it's a fun film. It's a film that we thought people might want to revisit. You know that kind of older listeners, which is to say listeners the age of many of us. Have had probably seen in a while back and not in a while whereas snack Nikki is more recent and just like more recent in the memory essentially. I agree with Scott that. Comes down to it's a little early to afford the newer film classic status but I also think that the fact that those two films feel so similar thematically in an execution maybe makes it less interesting to talk about them to talk about the Kaufman dining and range what interests me in a way about the connections between the new one and being John Malkovich is there kind of fundamentally from the same creator in the same mindset but they showcase like a different array of? Talents a different array of on and Foci in a way that Selecta cheat dat can't say it. I, I have a brain black. That's it. I think this is a a really interesting letter in terms of a lot of other things including Ya Jesse clements does feel so much like a Philip Seymour Hoffman's stand in I. Think if often was still alive today, he wouldn't be too old to play the janitor. He would be too old to to play the character that plummets plays. And I can't help. But wonder if Kaufman would wanNA cast him anyway because it's clear that he just had such a connection with them and it it really seems like that's the Hoffman feeling was leads exactly what he was going for with a character. I wasn't on an episode, but but having just watched at should and I'm thinking of things back back I think you're absolutely right about the similarities between snacky and I think he would need things but I think one of the things is interesting about coffin is how the peters was always area. The humor is always the balance has shifted so remarkably over the course of his career. A really. It'd be pretty indigestible double feature I think. I think it was nice and I Keith and I talked about this off air recently that it was kind of good for coffin to have. Someone like a Spike Jones or Michelle Gandara to bring some whimsy and lightness in a different feel to his movies. Then you know him directing his own work because he's pretty pretty Dower Dude in his in his films are so dense. So I think it'd be. It'd be a real tough. Sit back to back these two movies much as I love them both. The third point in the letter regarding the shift from Jesse Buckley's perspective I couldn't agree more. It's the big frustration of this film for me is that. Common just seem so focused and embedded in this particular kind of like lonely angry entitled sad sack kind of character and it seemed like he was giving away from it for once it seemed like he was scaping a completely different kind of character and story and Lo and behold that character and story isn't real and we're back to the same old. Same Old that for me was one of the reasons that movie kind of ended up being disappointment. Yeah and I I was upset also also say that the her drifting away was was sort of I? Like to film a lot. But it definitely felt like you know maybe a shift that was necessarily the best one for the film to make but. But interesting film anyway. So what we always appreciate when our listeners share their thoughts recommendations if you feel so inclined, we can feature your response on a future episode to reach us even short voicemail at seventy, seven, three, two, three, four, nine, seven, three, zero or email us at comments. DEXTRA show. Dot Net. Does it for this episode of the next picture show in our next episode, we'll talk about a different sort of unusual documentary. Kirstin. Dick Johnson is dead look for that episode next Tuesday or better yet subscribe to the next picture show on Apple podcast spotify or your pod Catcher Choi, that's even better. Still support us on Patriot at Patriot dot com slash next picture show find us at an extra show dot net follow us at facebook dot com slash next picture show and follow us on twitter at at picture pod. So you always know when a new episode drops until then take our advice don't buy any MODIGLIANI's from strangers no matter how with a dictator.

Hughes Wells Orson Welles Tasha Dick Johnson Keith Phipps Citizen Kane Scott Charlie Kaufman Howard Hughes US Clifford Irving Scott Tobias genevieve Caskey L. Mira horry John Malkovich Wells Wells Incorporated forgery Pablo Picasso cdw fraud Sin Wells
Inside Supercars - Show 288 Part 2 - Macauley Jones - Thought of the Week

Inside Supercars

05:49 min | 1 year ago

Inside Supercars - Show 288 Part 2 - Macauley Jones - Thought of the Week

"I am Jones Dick Johnson from team. Penske and you're on in Subic. From the rice treks across Australia. He is inside supercars. Calling. And he's folded the way. From the spying rice job drawn. But it was younger. No spill at school racing go karts. Same time teaches classmates and friends didn't really understand the sport I spent most of my time traveling, dropping and thinking about. Soda became the kid that was never at school had that semi famous dad? Over Supreme Small Town remember. I was always at school up bright, but not bad I. Guess I locked. Some subjects like PA would work for maths and struggling with English history of music. Traveling with rising made me keep up with my Simon's my cast. Homework really made it difficult for me. I was managing my. Pay but was falling behind areas and just didn't really want to. Get back from a rights way Shannon always belt behind the Times. With my and they all seem to always have adventures that I was missing out parties. But in the meantime I'd be Nike, my own memories and traveling. Try doing what I loved. So I wasn't really boss. I felt the guy cutting gave a lot of block experience. Maybe grow up what? I've traveled with. Tom, Williamson. Who runs ago team and he was my mechanic mark sort of big brother Petillo. Ny thought about. I guess about racing and working on carts cows. We've teaching me better lessons than school was. By the end of year eleven, I'd Miss Fifty in the eyes of school, which was just a whole school time to finishing yield convinced Mahmoud Tom. Apprenticeship mechanic at the broader and tracing tame. I've since completed my apprenticeship book on Rice GAAS. And got a lot of experience from traveling around me fat, and and you know died regretted at all. Isn't that fascinating of the shutdown period. Old People went to university was sitting at home, looking for jobs. And all the people who had tried were at they using them. Yeah. It's funny how it will work I. Mean It's kind of funny that still let some of the tribes go, but It's. It's I'm definitely grateful that I. That I definitely went straight into mind. Mechanic apprenticeship in I think for me I was just otherwise much from school that I. Didn't really look at and I. Think a lot of teachers were kind of not not. That didn't take my racing very seriously, so that sorta thought like. That I just didn't care about school which I did, but I just can't more about my racing and anew. That's what I wanted to do in my life, and and when you know what you WanNa. Do you Kinda full focus on it and and school? So that was pushed to the side because of. You now have got a tried behind you and I. Imagine because boils mices with your father. Uncle cousins all running the business you picking up a lot of business and frontal for skills as well. Yeah I think it's I think that's that's probably not quite sane very much from the outside looking in, but even as a reis cow drave become a bit of a businessman. euro-wise euro is Jonah fine new ideas. A sponsors them engage always building relationships building the team around you so as an operations gone to. Become an operations manager. Just about because you're trying to get the best out of the people around you as well as yourself and just on. Hey, you can continue to go racing, and it's still a lot of lot skills, and and if one day I. I stopped racing and and it's time to move on then I'm uncomfortable that you know from what learned from Dad in the team that we can pretty much Mike. Mullen rising in another field whether that be in another business all over, but. Now. I just I just focus as long as I can. Well Medicare. It's one thing that you racing and doing all that your. With your facebook presence, which presence of course was we've mentioned before, but if people want to get your thought of the wake eight-week to their inbox, they can join up volume facebook page. Yeah just check facebook page or even seventy direct messaging on the other Prussians. Even of always have to ask just having a chat to a younger kid. couple of weeks ago about ways that he could get involved in butter spawners mechanic. Dole or he was asking questions about how draw it goes about that as well Sir owns up for a chattel or talking about something that I love talking about. Well McIntosh. Enjoy now the criteria coffee and we'll speak to you next week. Awesome thank you. Inside, supercars is produced by thunder media shooting next on for more or locking the PODCAST Dhiraj change mobile device search inside supercars. The views expressed on inside supercars, including the panelists and guests do not reflect the views of the network thunder media will sport radio any publication will rebroadcast the show without the express written permission of thunder media is strictly prohibited.

Times Penske facebook Mahmoud Tom Simon Mullen Subic Dick Johnson Australia Williamson Shannon Nike Ny Dole Soda Jonah operations manager WanNa PA