5 Episode results for "Deva Lance"

The Hatfield & McCoy Feud Pt. 1

Crimes of Passion

1:08:11 hr | 1 year ago

The Hatfield & McCoy Feud Pt. 1

"I'm delighted to announce an incredible new podcast original called espionage. It tells the stories of the world's most unbelievable undercover missions and healthy covert operations, succeeded or failed. And if you stay tuned after this show, you can hear a clip of the first episode to listen to the full first episode subscribed to espionage wherever you listen to podcasts. New episodes come out every Friday. Due to the graphic nature of these families crimes. Listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of murder and violence that some people may find offensive we advise extreme caution for children under the age of thirteen. Rosanna crept quietly through the forest anticipation tingling through every nerve of her body. The twenty one year old woman was in love with a dashing eighteen year old name Jonty meeting him in secret in the dark of the woods only made their encounters more. Thrilling Rosanna knew her family didn't approve of their courtship. But she couldn't resist jonky when she spotted him crossing a dry creek bed coming towards her Rosanna trepidation faded away. Johnson took Rosanna and his arms. It was a chilly autumn night. But they began to undress not wanting to waste a moment of their time together as Johnny kissed her. He told her everything she wanted to hear he promised that he was going to marry her and that they would soon be happy together. But a moment later Rosanna heard the heavy stomp of men's boots. She turned to see three of her brothers Tolbert farmer, and Jim clamoring through the brush towards them Rosanna could tell by their expressions that it would be useless to argue with them before she could even try her brother's grab John C and loaded him onto a horse. The men left Rosanna alone in the forest clearing. She was cold and terrified. But also resolute no matter what her family thought Roseanna McCoy was determined to be with Jani Hatfield. Hi, I'm Laney Hobbs. And this is crimes of passion. A cast original the legal definition of a crime of passion is a violent crime that occurs in the throes of extreme emotion, leaving no time to reflect on the consequences. But in this show, we explore passionate crimes. How does a marriage progress from husband and wife to killer and victim or killer and co-conspirator if there's a thin line between love and hate what manipulates our relationships into deadly results at our cast. We are grateful for you our listeners, you allow us to do what we love let us know how you're doing reach out on Facebook and Instagram at podcast and Twitter at podcast network. And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help is to leave a five star review wherever you are listening. It really does help us. We. We also now have merchandise. Head depar- cast dot com slash merch. For more information. In the highlands of the Appalachia visitors can find some of the most gorgeous scenery in America. But the area's natural beauty is overshadowed by oblique history. The Hatfield McCoy families lived among the hills surrounding the tug fork river, the waterway marks the border between West Virginia and Kentucky. The feud between the two families span from eighteen sixty five until eighteen ninety one since then it has inspired hundreds of newspaper articles, dozens of books and a handful of movies and television series. The violence has commanded the public's fascination for well over a hundred years, it is not clear why the squabble has received so much attention. The participants weren't celebrities. The crimes they committed while cruel were no more horrifying than many other murders reported at the time. But perhaps the dispute has stayed in the public consciousness because the violent seems so senseless these families were neighbors. Many participants were related to each other by marriage, some by blood, they should have been helping each other survive the Talibans of frontier life, instead they let petty slights turn into track. Gic bloodshed in this episode. We'll learn how tensions mounted between the hatfields and mccoys during the civil war. And in the decades after until they erupted in eighteen eighty two with a gruesome murder that shocked. The residents of tug fork next week will discuss the bloody acts of retaliation and the court trials that followed. When the feud began an eighteen sixty five twenty five year old William Anderson Hatfield and forty year old Randolph McCoy where the proud patriarchs of their respective families. Historians name these men as the primary engineers of the discord William Anderson, Hatfield went by ants or commonly devil Anse. He was given this nickname by his own mother. Nancy Vance Hatfield, according to one apocryphal story. Nancy witnessed her unruly fifteen year old son fighting a mountain lion with his bare hands and remark that he was not a feared of no kind of farm it, nor of the devil himself devil. Lance was born in eighteen thirty nine the fourth of eighteen children on the West Virginia side of tug fork valley living in a border state devil Anse was at the center of America's conflict when the civil war broke out in eighteen sixty one. West Virginia remained part of the union. But dental lances loyalties, evidently, did not align with the state wants to civil war started the twenty three year old enlisted in the confederate army and served as first Lieutenant and the forty fifth battalion Virginia infantry in eighteen sixty three as it became clear that the confederacy would lose the war Deva, Lance deserted the army and returned to tuck fork or he formed a militia group with his uncle Jim Vance, they call themselves the Logan Wildcats the group rove through the mountains on horseback. Meeting out vigilante Justice and attacking union sympathizers throughout the area. One such sympathizer was thirty seven year old harm in McCoy brother tweet eventual futa Sgt Randolph McCoy. Harman lived on the Kentucky side of the tug. Fork river Kentucky citizens were divided during the civil war. But the majority of men fought for the union including Harmon despite being a former slave owner. He served in the union army's thirty ninth Kentucky mounted infantry regiment until he was honorably discharged in December of eighteen sixty four. On his journey back to tug fork Harmon encountered Jim Vance on the road as Harmon past him. Jim Vance sneered and warned him that Deva Lance and the Logan Wildcats were gunning for him. Vance had recently lost his brother in the civil war. He was looking for someone to blame and Harmon represented a convenient target the Logan. Wildcats may have also carried a previous grudge from his allegiance to another of their vigilante targets union general William Francis. In fact, some historians of the feud site Williams murder at the hands of the Wildcats in eighteen sixty three as the true beginning of the conflict. A few days after receiving Vance's threat Harmon went out to his yard to fetch water from the well he heard a shot and felt a bullet with past him. He crashed to the ground and crept back into the house. His wife Patti urged him to go into hiding for a few days to give bitter prejudices time to heal Harman. Agreed. He gathered supplies ammunition and provisions and set out into the frigid cold. He set up camp in a cave about a mile from his home. The logan. Wildcats did not give up their pursuit of Harmon. According to some accounts, they followed footprints left in the snow by his thirteen year old daughter Mary who had gone to warn her father that the Wildcats more patrolling the area. Other counts see that. The Wildcats followed the footprints of the McCoy family's. Former slave Pete who had gone to replenish Harman's food supply in any case on January seventh eighteen sixty five below gone Wildcats tracked harm in McCoy to his cave hideout. Armand through the blanket office body and began to massage his aching leg, which he had fractured in the war the bones had healed, but the pain lingered, especially in the cold. He didn't need a reminder of the battlefield. He felt as if the war had followed him home, even here he might be surrounded by the enemy at any moment. His breath rattled on top of everything else. He was coming down with pneumonia. He longed for the warmth of his bed and his wife as he mold over the risks of returning home. He heard footsteps outside Harmon froze he raised his rifle and limped towards the mouth of the cave. He hoped he could sneak out before his pursuers found him, but as he stepped outside he heard a crack of a rifle Pierce hair and felt a powerful blow to his chest knocking. Off-balance? He looked down to see blood spilling from an open bullet wound as he died Harmon thought of his five children and his wife Patty who was pregnant with their six. He had come home so eager to see his family and restore the bond weakened by his absence during the war. But now he would never have the chance. Later Patty found her husband's body draped over the long of a fallen tree. Most residents of tug fork believe Jim Vance had murdered him. They were also suspicious of gyms nephew Deva, Lance as the two men led the Logan Wildcats together, but devil Anse claim to be home in bed at the time. Harmon was murdered despite the suspicions. Nobody was ever charged for Harman's murder except for the perpetrators. There were no witnesses and no physical evidence. Linking anyone to the debt? Some historians. Claim that Harman's neighbors ignored the crime because they felt that the union sympathizer. God what he deserved. But the reality seems more complicated before a continued with the psychology. Please note that I am not a license. I kinda tryst or psychologist, but I have done a lot of research for this episode. Many of harm and McCoy's. Neighbors also served in the union army, even some members of devil Anse Hatfield family, according to civil war historian. Eric T dean, some of these returning veterans were suffering from severe PTSD apathy and emotional numbness in maybe that people were horrified by Harman's death. But also too overwhelmed to seek Justice at that point the war had already claimed hundreds of thousands of lives the community was traumatized by the constant guerrilla warfare tactics of militia groups, like the Logan Wildcats and the retaliations from the union army. That winter the war was finally winding down. Nobody wanted to dwell on another death. They were ready to move on. However, the tension between the Hatfield and McCoy families did not disappear over the next few years. Various members of the families took each other to court over small infractions such as trespassing or destroying beehives. But for a while they were content to let the legal system handle their problems instead of resorting to violence. When the civil war ended in the spring of eighteen sixty five twenty five year old devil aunts settled down with his wife will vic- and resumed a life of hunting farming timbering and distilling whisky family responsibilities. Kept devil. Anse busy in the years. After the civil war by eighteen sixty nine thirty year old aunts and his wife live. Icy already had four children and would go on to have nine more. As Deva lands face. The challenges of fatherhood. He didn't have much outside support his own father, e from Hatfield gave five of his other sons attractive land when they reached adulthood, but due to some unknown grudge. He refused to give any land to Deva lands devil lances strained relationship with his father may have contributed to his prideful combative nature in a time. When land ownership was one of the MO. Most potent symbols of a man's worth devil. Lance had to make do with the small plot. His wife had received from her father Deva, Lance was especially frustrated to have so little land because his closest neighbor Perry. Cline had so much. N B is one of the most basic human emotions, but it is often driven by more complicated. Feelings of inferiority and exile. Eighty one a man perceives himself to be less well off than people around him. He is more likely to feel shame and stress about his status, Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett experts in the field of public health have linked these anxieties to higher levels of violence and delinquency Perry. Cline was about a decade younger than devil. Lance Perry's parents died when he was just nine years old any ad inherited five thousand acres of land from his father, according to the Klein, family devil, Anse regularly trespassed on Perry's land to steal timber, but the official property boundaries were murky and devil Anse claimed. He had a right to be there around eighteen seventy Perry Klein agreed to sell devil Anse some of his land perhaps in an effort to resolve any animosity between them, although the trade was not recorded devil. Anse immed-. Took possession of the land even moving into the cleanses. Former homestead soon after devil Anse came across Perry. Cline timbering on the land. He had just purchased. There may have been some confusion over precisely which acres Perry. Cline had agreed to sell to Deva, Lance. But instead of chalking it up to an innocent misunderstanding devil Anse decided take Perry. Cline to court for trespassing. The men settled out of court, according to the terms of the settlement Perry Klein agreed to give all five thousand acres of his land to devil Anse. It's not clear why Perry Klein agreed to such a harsh penalty for such a small offense. But his writing suggests that he felt intimidated into doing. So after the settlement Perry Cline slunk away to the nearby town of pike Ville with this victory. Deva Lance became one of the largest landholders and tuck fork valley devil lances behavior. Ruffled a few feathers and tug fork Perry's father had been a wealthy and influential person in the region. Many residents were sympathetic to the Klein's especially Randolph McCoy who live just across the tug. Fork river on the Kentucky side of the valley. Born in eighteen twenty five forty five year old Randolph McCoy had one thing in common with devil. Anse? He had not inherited any land from his father. Instead, he lived on a small farm that had been passed down to his wife. Sarah, unlike devil ans- Randolph McCoy refused to bully his way into greater land ownership such behavior was a coroner to him. His wife Sarah was a devout Christian and menacing tactics. Didn't come naturally to him. He was known to be more of a sour old gossip than a ruffian, even if Randolph had been inclined to take someone else's land. He wouldn't have targeted Perry Klein with whom he shared close family ties several of Perry. Klein's siblings had married. Mccoy's. In fact, Perry sister Patty was the widow of the murdered harm in McCoy the injustice to Perry. Cline was. Yeah. Another insult added to the injury of Harman's death and soon these insults would be too much for Randolph McCoy to bear. Coming up. 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Who was also China's top spy for over thirty years and you'll be in spy. Fired by Virginia hall who despite losing part of her leg, organize sabotage missions against German army and helped allied soldiers escape during World War Two search for in subscribe to espionage wherever you listen to podcasts again, search espionage or visit park has dot com slash espionage till listen now. Now back to this crime of passion. The happy McCoy viewed was ignited in eighteen sixty five with the death of thirty seven year old harm in McCoy. He was likely killed by a thirty three year old man named Jim Vance a confederate sympathizer who was angry about Harmon service with the union army. Vance may have had help from his nephew twenty six year old devil Anse Hatfield Harman's older brother Randolph McCoy did not initially seek retaliation. He may have had too many other worries to pursue vengeance tending to his wife and sixteen children. But it was the first slight and what would become an avalanche of grudges Randolph McCoy descended from some of the original pioneers of tug fork valley, but Randolph's father had to sell off their family farm in order to pay various fines and debts therefore Randolph inherited no land from his father. He and his wife, Sarah. Lived in a tiny cabin in the blackberry district of Kentucky about two miles south of the tug fork river, they had very little land and had almost nothing to pass down to their children research conducted by scientists Paul Tiffen Mark s Pierce and Louise Parker show that men who have gone through a downward social trajectory experienced significantly, greater mental health issues than men who social status remains the same over time. The loss of status often gives rise to feelings of shame and distrust, according to Richard Wilkinson and Kate Pickett for Randolph McCoy the daily struggles of poverty, only added to the usual stresses of trying to raise a large family in the harsh wilderness of the mountains. In the late eighteen hundreds Appalachia, many families survival depended on the success of their small-scale farming and hurting opperations Randolph. Mccoy's family was no different. Raising. Hogs was critical to their livelihood. A single four hundred pound animal might make the difference between getting through the winter and starving to death. Therefore farmers took their hogs very seriously a Kentucky circuit court judge noted that he'd convicted more men for stealing hogs than for murder. In September of eighteen seventy eight fifty two year old Randolph was pending his hog. So that he could castrate the piglets in the middle of his work. A Sal broke through the fence and ran off with six of her piglets Randolph. Let her go the hongs or territorial animals and didn't often stray far from home. But when they hadn't returned by that winter Randolph mounted a search. He was confident he would be able to recognize the sow if he found her farmers Mark their hogs by cutting notches into the animal's ears. Each armor had his own distinct Marc Randolph track the hog to the farm of his nephew, Tom Stafford Stafford didn't know who the hogs belong to. But he had been keeping them penned up with his own pigs until the owner came forward since it was nearly night. Randolph didn't want to go through the trouble of dragging the hogs back home in the dark. He knocked on Tom's door. Four and let his nephew. No that he'd come to retrieve them the next morning. But not long after Randolph left. Another man Floyd Hatfield showed up at Tom's door. Twenty nine year old Floyd was a cousin of devil Anse Hatfield. He also happened to be Tom Stafford's brother-in-law. He claimed that a few of his hogs had crossed over the frozen tug fork river and had gotten stranded on Tom's property. Tom worn Floyd that Randolph McCoy claimed ownership over those same hogs Floyd didn't listen, he rounded up the livestock and herded them across the river to his farm. When Randolph heard about this the following day. He was furious. He immediately went to confront Floyd the men checked the hogs ears, but the brands were so scuffed up and scarred over nobody could tell who's marks. They were Floyd Hatfield kept possession of the hongs, but Randolph McCoy promised that the matter was an over Randolph took his claim to another Hatfield cousin confusingly also named Anse Hatfield this cousin went by the name preacher ants in contrast to Deva, Lance, although he was a Hatfield by name and blood year old preacher. Aunts lived in the same district as Randolph McCoy on the Kentucky side of the tug. Fork river rather than the West Virginia side, more most of the other hatfields, resided preacher. Anse led the congregation of the old pond creek Baptist church where both hatfields and McCoy. As went to worship, he was seen as a neutral party among the families and as a Justice of the peace. He was also accepted by both families as a qualified arbiter over the hog conflict. Preacher aunts organized. A hearing his log cabin farmers from all over tug. Fork valley came to see the disagreement playout preacher Anse called for everyone to cast their weapons aside. The men grudgingly laid their rifles and pistols against the wall and the trial began testimony went as everyone expected with the McCoy witnesses swearing that the hog belonged to Randolph McCoy, and the Hatfield witnesses insisting that it was Floyd's one witness deviated from family lines Bill Stayton Stayton was a cousin of Randolph McCoy. But his sister was married to Ellison Hatfield. Ellison Hatfield wasn't just statements brother-in-law. They were best friends state and testified that he had personally watched Floyd brand the hog in question. The mccoys were furious Randolph. Mccoy's nephew Paris called. Stayton a damned liar. But Stayton stuck to his testimony. Once the witnesses were through it was time for the jury to come to a decision preacher. Ants was determined to be impartial. He had selected a jury of six men with Hatfield affiliations and six men from the McCoy clan. Perhaps he felt that if the trial ended in a hung jury, the men might both feel vindicated and let the matter drop with no hard feelings, but predicting jury loyalties crew to be an impossible task one of the jurors Selkirk McCoy was yet another cousin of Randolph McCoy, but he had served in the confederate army with devil Anse Hatfield and he worked on devil answers timber crew with Selkirk joining in with the hatfields the jury turned in a verdict of seven to five against Randolph McCoy. The McCoy's were astonished and infuriated Randolph cursed the verdict, but his wife Sarah convinced her husband to accept the outcome. Although he growled about the injustice Randolph allowed Floyd to take home the prize tog the feud could have stopped there in its tracks. But Randolph McCoy had nine sons and countless nephews who did not have Randolph's passive temperament to them. The verdict wasn't just about a stolen pig. It was a matter of family, honour and betrayal. Harvard Medical School psychiatrist James Gilligan spent several years as the medical director for the Massachusetts prison system. He wrote that the inmates violent acts were nearly always triggered by a recent humiliation. The men used violence as a way to recover their pride after a loss of face. The aftermath of the hog trial showed that the mccoys were determined to punish the Hatfield for injury to their egos from then on flare ups of violence between the families became a regular occurrence, the mccoys directed most of their IRA at Bill Stayton who had sided with his Hatfield inlaws over his cousin Randolph McCoy after the trial state and try to steer clear of his angry relations by staying on the West Virginia side of the tug fork river, but run ins were unavoidable one autumn afternoon. Bill Stayton was hunting deer in the woods with Ellison Hatfield. Ellison like his brother Deva, Lance was a confederate veteran locally hailed as a war hero. Unlike Deva, Lance Ellison had a reputation for being even tempered and fair-minded. He was a deacon in preacher answers Baptist church. And he was known as the peacekeeper. Ever of the Hatfield family. The men came upon to McCoy brothers, Paris and squirrel hunting Sam the McCoy's bristled when they saw Bill Stayton remembering his traitorous testimony at the hug trial squirrel hunting Sam aimed his rifle and shot the gun right out of Bill statements hands then he dropped his own gun and threw himself at his cousin. They scuffled on the ground until Ellison Hatfield, pull them apart and shoved squirrel hunting Sam away the men separated without any serious injury that day, but the next few months were punctuated with similar skirmishes on June eighteen eighteen eighty Paris in squirrel hunting Sam again, cross paths with Bill Stayton in the woods. This time. Stayton was alone. There are several different accounts of what followed on that day. According to McCoy historians. Bill Stayton saw Perez and Sam I and he ambushed them shooting Paris through the hip. Paris felt the bullet ripped through the flesh of his hip, and he snarled in surprise and pain. He turned to see Bill statement barreling towards him acting on pure instinct, Paris raised his own gun and fired back hitting Stayton in the chest. Paris's Pull's raised as he watched the blood spurt from the man's wound. But Stayton wasn't stopping he lumbered toward Paris and began to pummel him with his fists. Paris drew up his arms grabbing Bill by the shoulders as he stumbled backward. He clot at Bill drawing. Blood Bill, Baird his teeth rabid suddenly Bill lunched forward and tore at Paris's jugular vein with his teeth. Paris began to panic. He felt sticky blood pooling at his caller, he gripped. The other man's jaws and tried to pry him loose Paris church. Nd his desperate is towards his brother squirrel hunting. Sam who watched the fight from a few feet away. Harris couldn't speak. He couldn't manage to do anything. But grunt regardless. Sam got the message and raise his pistol. Sam wasn't nickname squirrel hunting Sam for nothing. He had an aim so sharp he could pick squirrels out of trees as they leapt from limb to limb now he was aiming at a larger target with one shot from SAM's gun. A bullet pierced Bill state and skull Peres felt bills body jerk against him, then go limp. Paris breathe a sigh of relief Bill Stayton had finally gotten. What was coming to him? Historians. More sympathetic to the hatfields tell a different version of Bill statements death. They say that's grow hunting. Sam and Peres were the first aggressors and that Bill was minding his own business when they attacked regardless of the exact details. Historians agreed that squirrel hunting Sam shot and killed Bill. Stayton salmon Paris ran off leaving Bill statements body to grow cold on the forest path. But Paris now had a bullet wound in his hip and Gouges across his face obvious injuries indicating that he'd been in a fight. When Bill statements body was discovered a few days later people made the connection between Paris, McCoy's injuries and statements death, the Hatfield Klan responded, quickly devil, lances older, brother, Valentine nickname. Wall. Hatfield was a Justice of the peace for the West Virginia district in which the murder had occurred. He drew up warrants for the arrest of Paris and Sam and the pair were soon apprehended. Next will discuss Paris and Sam McCoy's trial for murder, and how it would March the families into a bloody cycle of violence that would earn them notoriety across America. Now back to the story. After a series of altercations between the McCoy and Hatfield families. The feud was cemented on July eighteenth eighteen eighty with the death of Bill Stayton, a Hatfield sympathizer at the hands of Paris McCoy and his brother squirrel hunting. Sam the men were both charged with murder the deceased Bill statements best friend and brother-in-law. Ellison Hatfield was particularly determined to see Paris and Sam brought to Justice Ellison was among the witnesses who testified against the McCoy brothers at trial. But ultimately, the jury acquitted the pair on the grounds of self-defence, according to some accounts devil, Anse Hatfield went out of his way to pressure. The jury to acquit Paris and Sam he reportedly did so in an effort to defuse some of the tension building between the families. If it's true that devil aunts arranged for Paris and SAM's acquittal. The McCoy's apparently didn't appreciate the gesture. They were angry that salmon Paris had been charged with murder in the first place. It seemed that nothing could assuage the wounds left in the aftermath of Harmon McCoy's murder. The harassment of Perry Cline and the hog trial. But in August of eighteen eighty election day provided an enjoyable diversion. For residents of the blackberry district of Kentucky election day, wasn't just a chance for people to select their favorite candidates. It was an opportunity to eat drink and socialize with neighbors. The women unable to cast ballots brought baked goods to hand out in a show of support for their preferred elected officials and the men brought plenty of moonshine. Only Kentucky residents could vote in blackberries elections, but the district's West Virginia neighbors often showed up to be spectators or to try to influence voters. The communities were so close together that Kentucky's elections affected them to. That year. One of the polling locations was set up at the home of seventy six year old Jeremiah Hatfield, Jeremiah was a great uncle to devil Anse though. He lived on the Kentucky side of the tug. Fork river naturally double aunts and the rest of the clan showed up to be a part of the amusement. The McCoy's also arrived cast their votes. But luckily, nobody was in a fighting mood. Among them was Roseanna McCoy the fourth daughter of Randolph and Sarah McCoy Twenty-one year old Rosanna was described as a beautiful woman tall and slender with dark eyes and long Auburn hair that looked golden in the sunlight eighteen year old. Johnny Hatfield must have met Rosanna before. But he had never taken much notice of her until that election day. Johny Hatfield was devil lances oldest son. He was known as a dapper playboy he liked to dress. Well, he liked to Drink, Man. He liked to chase women that day. He and Roseanna McCoy got to talking in the late afternoon while the families began to depart Rosanna and John city snuck off into the woods and spend the evening together. As nights set in and passion, abated Rosanna grew freed. She didn't want to return, home and face. Her father Johnson agreed to take her to the Hatfield home. He promised that he would marry her and that everything would be all right, Dev. Lance Hatfield didn't mind having Rosanna stay with the family. But by most accounts, he strongly objected to a son marrying a McCoy. Meanwhile, Randolph McCoy was furious. He sent Rosanna several messages demanding that she returned home Rosanna refused holding out hope that John would marry her. But he didn't either he wouldn't defy his father or he didn't want to be tied down after a few months. Rosanna finally left the Hatfield homestead and return to her family by that time, she was pregnant being pregnant and unmarried wasn't the end of the world. Puritanism didn't run as deep in the southern mountains as it did in the northeastern part of the country. There weren't many churches in the undeveloped wilderness of Kentucky and West Virginia. And it wasn't uncommon for couples to start a life together before they had a chance to make it to the alter the community might not have judged Rosanna. Unfortunately. Her father did Randolph kicked her out of the house. She moved in with a widowed aunt about half a mile up the river, although Johnny Hatfield didn't marry Rosanna. He still wanted to see her. The couple continued to meet secretly in the woods when Randolph heard about this. He sent his sons Tolbert farmer and Jim to put a stop to it. Roseanne has brothers were all too happy to interrupt the couple's clandestine. Rendezvous Tolbert had gotten himself deputized and he arrested Johnny for carrying a concealed weapon. It was a dubious charge given that most men of the area never left the house without a firearm. But the McCoy's didn't care they carry Johnny off intending to take him to the pike. Ville jail Rosanna was terrified that her brothers might kill jonky. She ran to the nearby farm of her neighbor and cousin Tom staffer. Heard. She borrowed a horse and race Bareback to the hatfields farm where she called on devil. Lance to rescue his son. Deva? Lance gathered up a posse of Hatfield brothers sons and nephews the group use shortcuts to intercept the McCoy's on the road to bike Ville, outnumbered. Rosanna 's brothers were forced to give up their captive relations between Rosanna and John C soured soon after. In the spring of eighteen eighty one he began to pursue a different McCoy Rosanna sixteen year old cousin Nancy unlike Rosanna Nancy didn't have a father to criticize the match. She was the daughter of harm in McCoy the union soldier who had been murdered by the Logan. Wildcats in eighteen sixty five not long before Nancy was born Nancy's mother, Patty, however did oppose the marriage as the wife of in McCoy and sister of Perry Cline. She had more reason than anyone to hate the hatfields. The Nancy was a headstrong girl and she married John C in may of eighteen eighty one without her mother's approval that seems spring Rosanna gave birth to her baby. A daughter named Sarah, Elizabeth tragically the infant died after contracting measles. Than pneumonia. At just eight months old for months afterward Rosanna would spend hours each day sitting by the baby's grave. She would never have any more children, and she would never marry. This time of grief was also a time of relative calm between the families. But by the next election day on August eighth. Eighteen eighty two tempers flared once again. As they had done two years prior dozens of members of the Hatfield and McCoy families gathered at the polling grounds, and blackberry district. Everyone seemed to be in high spirits, Tom Stafford who had family connections to both the hatfields and the mccoys was on the ballot. That day folks were eager to support him, many of them accordingly were also relieved to discover that the most despised members of the Hatfield clan had stayed home, including devil, Lance and his son Johnny the mccoys had every reason to enjoy the festivities but Randolph McCoy's twenty eight year old son Tolbert was in a dark mood. Tolbert was described as one of the most hot tempered members of the McCoy family. He became particularly angry when he drink that day alcohol was flowing freely. Apple jack. And corn liquor. There may have also been a genetic basis for Tolbert's frequent bouts of fury. Many modern day descendants of the McCoy family have been diagnosed with on hippo endow disease. This rare genetic disorder causes tumors in the adrenal gland, which can then cause the body to produce excess adrenaline if Randolph son suffered from the same disease. They may have been frequently overloaded with fight or flight hormones and easily provoked a trivial thing set Tolbert off he accused a Hatfield relative of owing him money for fiddle. He'd sold him the men began to argue Ellison Hatfield arrived to stop the fight. Ellison. The well liked confederate war hero back to St. gin and respectable brother of devil. Aunts might have been successful. But the mccoys were still angry at Ellison specifically for. For testifying against squirrel, hunting Sam and Paris McCoy in their trial for murdering Bill Stayton. Of course, they were also still angry at all the hatfields collectively for Johnny Hatfield treatment of Rosanna and his seduction of Nancy for fully tat fields victory in the hog trial for devil lances possession of Perry clients property and for the Logan Wildcats murder of in McCoy, according to some accounts. Ellison try to defuse the situation with humor he took off his straw hat and offered it Tolbert in lieu of the price for the fiddle. He said that it would at least give Tolbert something feed. Cows humorless. Tolbert shouted back. I'm hell on earth. Ellison replied, your damn hog Tolbert's pride could not withstand. One more insult. He pulled out his Jack knife and stabbed Ellison through the ribs. Ellison was hurt. But. He managed to pull out his own blade and slashed at Tolbert's head. The knife glanced across Tolbert's ear at that point. Ellison lost his grip on the knife. He began attacking with his fists. He was bigger than Tolbert and would have had a good chance of overpowering him in a fair fight. But Tolbert still had his knife. Tolbert began to stab Ellison again. And again. Tolbert's brother Bill McCoy briefly entered the fray to stab Ellison with his own blade, then he ran off into the woods Tolbert. Kept stabbing and one of the blows Pierce through Ellison stomach puncturing his liver. Ellison Hatfield desperately grasped in nearby rock and lifted it up and tending to bash Tolbert's goal at that point another McCoy brother farmer grabbed a pistol and shot Ellison in the back. Ellison went still as he collapsed. He muttered I'm shot and shot for dead. Tolbert suddenly came to a census he dropped his weapon as a number of angry Hatfield, surrounded him and farmer. The also grabbed eighteen year old bud McCoy who hadn't even joined his brothers in the fight. Perhaps. They mistook him for his older brother Bill who had jabbed Ellison with his pocket knife before disappearing into the woods the rest of the hatfields fashioned stretcher out of an old blanket and used it to carry the badly wounded Ellison Hatfield to a nearby house to receive medical attention preacher, Anse, Hatfield, the blackberry district. Justice of the peace instructed, a pair of constables to take Tolbert farmer and bud McCoy to the pike Ville jail Randolph McCoy, accompanied them. Anticipating he'd need to hire a lawyer for his sons defense. It was a twenty five mile journey and dangerous to travel the narrow ridges and mountain paths after dark so the party stopped to rest for the night before continuing the journey the next morning by then Deva, Lance had heard what happened to his brother. Ellison. He went to Kentucky at daybreak where Ellison was still clinging to his life despite the twenty six knife wounds and one bullet hole that martis torso Deva, Lance, then gathered up all the hatfields and family supporters. He could they set off to find the constables transferring the McCoy's to prison devil, lances older brother wall Hatfield found them. I he explained to Randolph McCoy and the constables that he wanted them to return to the blackberry district. He felt that as a practical matter the charges should be brought in the district where the crime had taken place. Whoa. Wall was about to take custody over the men when devil. Lance arrived with his posse. Wall had been trying to act as the rational law man, but Ellison was his brother to when devil Anse commanded all hatfields to fall in mine while relented and let devil Anse take charge. They loaded the prisoners onto a corn sled. Terrified for his sons Randolph McCoy took off for pike Ville, still hopeful that he might find a lawyer there to assist them. Devil. Lance and his posse drag the prisoners across the tug fork river into West Virginia and marched them to an empty ramshackle schoolhouse a mile from the river Bank. They waited their guns pointed at the three McCoy brothers as messengers wind back and forth to get updates on Ellison hatfields condition. Bud McCoy shivered and terror. He was only eighteen he barely understood why he was supposed to hate the hatfields. He hadn't even participated in the stabbing or shooting of Ellison Hatfield. It had been his brother's Tolbert farmer and Bill he knew that devil. Aunts had sons of his own some about buds age. He prayed that the old Hatfield patriarch which show him some mercy. But as he listened to the Hatfield joke about lynching and speculate about the most painful place to shoot a prisoner. He began to lose hope than mercy was on anyone's mind daylight was fading eerie shadows filled the schoolhouse, but tried to choke back his rising panic he heard someone approaching from outside. He looked fearfully up as the door. Swung open to. His astonishment. He saw his mother Sarah McCoy standing in the entryway, she looked more terrified than he felt Fifty-three-year-old Serra McCoy had come to Bank for the lives of her sons. She had brought Tolbert's wife Mary and their four month old baby Cora with her the women drop to their knees and front of Deva, Lance and wall, the pleaded with the hatfields to release their kin Sarah didn't try to excuse her son's attack on Ellison Hatfield, but she argued that they should be tried a affair court of law. According to witnesses devil. Anse was unmoved by the women's attempts to reason with him. He simply told them you needn't beg, and you needn't cry if Ellison dies, you boys has got to die. Thanks again for tuning into crimes of passion. We will be back Wednesday with part two of the Hatfield McCoy feud story will discuss the aftermath of Ellison Hatfield stabbing and the cycle of violence that it perpetuated. You can find more episodes of crimes of passion as well. As all of our casts other shows on Spotify or your favorite podcast directory. Several of you have asked how to help us if you enjoy the show the best way to help is to leave a five star review. Don't forget to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at par cast and Twitter at parkas network. We'll see you next time when true love meat true crime. Crimes of passion was created. By max Cutler is a production of Cutler media, and is part of the park has network. It is produced by Maxon wrong Cutler with sound design by Michael links ner production assistance by Ron Shapiro. Paulie skinned and Maggie admire crimes of passion is written by Christine. Pam hayes. I'm Laney Hobbs. And here it is a clip of the first episode of espionage. It's about a young American couple who were accused of spying for the Soviet Union in the late nineteen forties to listen to the full first episode subscribe to espionage wherever you listen to podcasts. Rose of records flash past Julius Rosenberg as he made his way deeper and deeper into the army signal corps building he checked his watch trying to remain as casual as possible. That was the secret to being covert remain, perfectly normal. He pulled a paper bound file from the shelf, and unwrapped it inside was a manual dictating the full schematics on the US jet fighter. The p eighty shooting star this plane was the choice fighter for the American forces in with any luck. The Soviets would know every system on board just then a door slammed at the other end of the room. Someone was there. Julius didn't have much time. He pushed back his horn rimmed glasses and removed a small like a camera from his suitcase. Be snapped pictures of the file one page at a time faster faster faster than as the footsteps turned the corner, he tied the string around the file and placed it back on the shelf. It was just a record assistant restocking books. Julius nodded and continued on his way. That night Julius called his handler on the phone it rang twice, and he hung up. That was all his handler needed to know. Julius had information. This is a new park cast original exploring the missions behind the world's most incredible spies, and what brought their covert operations into the public eye. I'm your host Carter ROY throughout this show. We'll explore real world spy tactics required to impersonate exploit and infiltrate the most confidential places in the world. This is our first episode on the world's most infamous, atomic spies. Julius and Ethel Rosenberg in the mid nineteen forties. Twenty-seven-year-old Julius and his thirty year old wife Ethel orchestrated a top secret operation to steal information about the atomic bomb from right under the FBI's knows on this week. We'll explore how to American communists turned from activists into international spies next week. We'll follow. Oh, the Rosenbergs as their operation comes crashing to the ground. Julius Rosenberg had lived on the Lower East Side since he was a child. He knew it better than anyone the noise. The heat the discrimination. The big businesses flourishing while hardworking families starved New York City was proof that American capitalism had failed. Everyone said America was the land of opportunity on. That's why Julius says parents had moved there from the Russian empire. But the reality of life during the great depression, especially for working class Jewish immigrants like the Rosenbergs was far from utopian. All Julia saw was injustice and inequality. Well, Julius was a student at the City College of New York in the mid nineteen thirties. He worked part time at a pharmacy in Harlem one night. A black man was hit by a bus on the street just outside the shop. Yep. They brought him inside. But in the hour. It took for an ambulance to arrive the man bled to death. If that was the best America could offer Julius wanted to see his other options. Like, many young people in the nineteen thirties, Julius. Aw. A more promising vision of society in his family's homeland Russia at the time serving as the center of power within the Soviet Union on their communism equality was a promise not a dream the poor would be lifted up and the rich would be held in check. By the time. He was eighteen in nineteen thirty six Julius was arising leader in C C, N wise, young Communist League. How the communist party USA was enjoying a moment in the spotlight in the nineteen thirties membership rose from seven thousand five hundred fifty five thousand over the course of the decade, this was partially due to disillusionment with capitalism during the great depression and also in response to the rise of fascism in Spain Germany in the days before McCarthyism, communism wasn't a dirty word in the party attracted droves supporters by fighting for labor laws women's rights and racial equality at a political rally in the winter of nineteen thirty six Julius met another free thinker Ethel Greenglass Ethel was a twenty one year old aspiring actress and out of work secretary. She'd been fired from her clerical job the previous year for organizing a worker strike, but it didn't scare her away from activism and fact, it only made her more. Fiery Julius and Ethel were both true. Believers in the communist cause and politics became the passion that bound them together. Julius was bold and fearless at one point in college. He led a raid on a German ocean. Liner, the SS Bremen and tore the Nazi flag from its Jack staff Ethel on the other hand was cautious and practical Julius could never be bothered to do his homework. So at the routinely wrote his college papers for him typing them up on her second hand, Remington typewriter. If it wasn't for Ethel's diligence Julius may not have finished college at all. But he finally graduated with a Bs in electrical engineering in February nineteen thirty nine one semester late and ranked seventy ninth out of eighty five in his class. The next year Julius got a job as a civilian engineer inspecting equipment for the army signal corps in New York. For most electrical engineers, this would have been a boring entry level job. But Julius saw the hidden value. This position offered him access to America's advanced radio radar and sonar technologies. The foundation of the US military's communication systems. Just a year later in December nineteen forty one the United States entered World War Two the Soviet Union and America where allies in the war, but they were still ideological opposites. As two of the world's rising superpowers neither country wanted to see the other surpass them in technological advances, and as two of America's rising communists, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg knew which side they wanted to come out on top. When the war was finally over. Throughout the early nineteen forties, Julius snuck as much information as he could into his briefcase, circuit board diagrams company messages. He didn't know exactly what Russia needed. So he grabbed a little bit of everything with Ethel's knowledge and support he hid the stolen documents on their apartments bookshelf, waiting for an opportunity to pass it along into the right hands to do that the Rosenbergs needed to contact the N cave. E D the Soviet Union's interior ministry and secret police agency, which would later become known as the K G B, but how do two twenty something. New Yorkers get connected with a foreign country's top secret intelligence agency. In nineteen forty one Julius and Ethel began feeling out potential contacts in the young Communist League, and the communist party USA, the attended weekly party meetings across New York City, and at every meeting Julius made it a point to mention in casual conversation that he happened to possess sensitive information that could undermine the American military laughter. Almost two years this method failed to produce any results. The N K v very rarely touched base with the communist party USA, which was basically an intellectual organization run by politically powerless left wing academics, a proper nineteen forty Soviet agent. Focus their time on Ivy league universities. This was where the next generation of American statesman could be found by the end of nineteen forty two when Julius. Was twenty four and Ethel was twenty-seven. The had a new plan if the N K V didn't want them. They would build their own spy network for many of Julius friends from college had found jobs in engineering facilities, where top secret US military equipment was turned out on conveyor belts every day. He started by reaching out to his old friend. Joel Barr who also worked with him at the army signal corps, his friend. Morton sobil was at General Electric. William Pearl was at the national advisory committee for 'aeronautics the predecessor to NASA. Other friends ended up at bell laboratories, western electric, and chemical engineering firm called the Celtics corporation and Julius is sales. Pitch was always the same. According to his friend, max L at your Julius would tell each potential recruit that many of their friends were already. Giving secrets to Russia and that together they could bring about a change in the status quo for most. This was all it took by April nineteen forty two Julius and Ethel had amassed half a dozen American engineers who are loyal to the communist cause together. They gathered information about sonar military radio radar and cutting edge avionics from their corporate day jobs, a few months later, their work finally caught the kind of tension Julius had been waiting for. In June, nineteen forty two Julius was making his rounds at a communist party meeting when he was introduced to a man named Bernard. Schuster Shuster wasn't an N K b agent himself, but he told Julius he knew an agent by the name of Jacob goalless codename sound Jacob goalless was a rising star in the N cave. E he was a Russian immigrant who had made a name for himself in the nineteen twenties by stealing American passports, which the Soviet Union used to forge American travel documents with extreme accuracy by nineteen thirty goalless was recruited by the Soviet Union as a bona fide spy his job was to recruit American intelligence sources aka assets who are willing to sell secrets to the Soviets Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were. Exactly, the kind of people. Go lows was looking for Schuster saw Julius has value to Russia and told him that he would contact goalless later that month by the end of the summer Bernard Schuster told Julius that goalless would meet him in the upper east side within the following month. August nineteen forty two. Julius could feel the August heat pressing down on him. His glasses slid down the sweaty bridge of his nose finally a car stopped along the street and a man with a round face and large lips stepped out. This must be Jacob goalless. There was nothing special about goalless appearance. He looked totally unremarkable. This was by design. According to former chief of disguise of the CIA, John Mendez spies, try to be the man or woman that quote gets on the elevator. And then gets off. And nobody knew they were there. Goalless approached Julius and stopped a few feet away. What happened next is called a recognition signal. According to the international spy museum. This is a simple phrase word or object that is used to identify yourself as an ally agent, and we don't know the exact signal used for this conversation, but ex Soviet spy Klaus folks, describe some KGB tactics after the Cold War as a spy he was instructed to wear gloves. But carry a second pair or to hold a tennis ball as he walked down the street on the goal of these recognition signals is to be settled enough to seem normal but overt enough to identify your ally. Once the recognition was confirmed goalless gave Julius a small slip of paper with a telephone number in perfect English Colo's told Julius to call him when he needed. To talk Julius nodded goalless got back into his car and left the whole meeting lasted no more than about thirty seconds. But it was the most important thirty seconds of Julius Rosenberg's life. Coming up. We'll hear how the FBI began to tighten a noose around the Rosenbergs life.

Roseanna McCoy Deva Lance McCoy Hatfield Kentucky Ellison Hatfield Sarah McCoy Marc Randolph Randolph McCoy Rosanna Nancy Justice Ellison tug fork river Bill Stayton Stayton West Virginia murder Anse Johnny Hatfield Jim Vance Perry Cline Bill
The Hatfield & McCoy Feud Pt. 2

Crimes of Passion

45:02 min | 1 year ago

The Hatfield & McCoy Feud Pt. 2

"Due to the graphic nature of these families crimes. Listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of murder and violence that some people may find offensive we advise extreme caution for children under the age of thirteen. Cap Hatfield was certain about one thing some women gossip too much for their own good. Maybe it was harmless most of the time, but when his family was under attack. He couldn't abide loose lips someone in the Hatfield clan was spilling secrets cap suspected the culprit was his sister in law. Nancy after all, she was McCoy by blood. It was foolish to trust her. The question now was what to do about her bad behavior had to be punished. Cap. Thoughtfully stared at the wall. He saw the tail of a cow nail to the wooden logs of his cabin. He had chopped it off just to see the animal jump then hung up to dry cap. Rip the tail down and brandished it like a whip swishing it through the air, he smiled as a plan began to form in his mind. Those gossiping McCoy woman had. Earned a beating, and he would be the one to give it to them. Hi, I'm Laney Hobbs. And this is crimes of passion. Apar- cast original the legal definition of a crime of passion is a violent crime that occurs in the throes of extreme emotion, leaving no time to reflect on the consequences. But in this show, we explore passionate crimes, how does marriage progress from husband and wife to kill her and victim or killer and co-conspirator if there's a thin line between love and hate what manipulates our relationships and a deadly results at par cast. We're grateful for you our listeners you allow us to do what we love let us know how we're doing reach out on Facebook and Instagram at par cast and Twitter at podcast network. And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star review wherever you're listening. It really does help us. We also now have merchandise had depar- cast dot com slash merch for more. Formation. Beginning in eighteen sixty five the hatfields of Logan county, West Virginia and the mccoys of pike county Kentucky or locked in a lethal feud that would entangle the families and bloody cycle of violence over the subsequent twenty six years. The trouble began with the death of thirty seven year old harm in McCoy. The former union soldier was killed in January of eighteen sixty five by confederate leaning militia group, led by devil, Anse Hatfield and his uncle Jim Vance in eighteen seventy eight thirteen years after Harman's murder, his older brother Randolph McCoy accused a Hatfield of stealing his hogs at the trial to determine the ownership of the animals a McCoy cousin named Bill. Stayton testified against family lines. The mccoys were so furious about this betrayal that two of Randolph's nephews shot and killed Bill. Stayton in eighteen eighty. That same year. Twenty one year old Roseanna McCoy fell in love with eighteen year old Johnny Hatfield. But after a brief affair that left Rosanna pregnant Jones, he jilted Rosanna to marry her cousin Nancy these events pushed the McCoy's to a breaking point on election day, August seventh of eighteen eighty two three of Randolph McCoy sons stabbed and shot confederate war hero and Baptist. Deacon? Ellison Hatfield after the brawl a posse led by devil Anse Hatfield grabbed the McCoy brothers. Tolbert farmer and bud and drag them to an old school house on the West Virginia side of the tug fork river there they waited to see whether Ellison Hatfield would survive his injuries. At three o'clock in the afternoon on Wednesday, August ninth eighteen eighty two forty year old Ellison Hatfield succumbed to his wounds word quickly got back to the old schoolhouse Sarah McCoy, the mother of the captive brothers had been holding vigil outside. But when the news came in the Hatfield mob, ordered her to leave devil Anse gathered twenty of his men, he instructed them to lead the McCoy prisoners outside at nightfall. They began their journey back into Kentucky the policy was primed for murder, but one Hatfield remained reticent. Valentine Hatfield nicknamed wall Deva, Lance is oldest brother and a Justice of the peace in west Virginia's Logan county. As wall. Hatfield tourists reach the edge of the tug fork river. He watched a group of men grab Tolbert farmer, and bud McCoy and hustle them towards the riverbank the rush of the river couldn't drown out the frantic pleas of the young McCoy, boys. Wall fell doubt creep in as he stared at their tear-streaked faces wall looked around. But none of the other Hatfield men seem to be affected. He couldn't help. But think of the McCoy boy's father Randolph who had gone onto bike Ville to find a lawyer to defend his sons Randolph had put his trust in the principles of law and order up until this moment wall had dedicated his life to those same values. Now, he felt ashamed at how easily he had let his anger sweep his principles away wall. Hurt is brother Deva Lance order. The posse to take the McCoy brothers across the river into Kentucky. The prisoners would soon be outside of walls jurisdiction and beyond his responsibility. But wall felt more burden than ever. Finally. He had to speak up wall told the posse to reconsider. He reminded them that the bible prohibited. Murder, but walls brother, never had much use for religion. Devon lands. Had always been stubborn even as a boy when he had his mind set on something trying to convince him otherwise only made him dig in harder. As wall, protested devil. Anse just stared at him coldly, then ordered his men to keep going wall thought of other please. But he couldn't seem to voice them. It seemed pointless to stand up against the inflamed passions of his kin. He kept silent. And let the men drag the McCoy prisoners away. With wall gone. The rest of the men fell in mind behind Deva lands following his instructions without question before it continue with the psychology. Please note, I am not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but I have done a lot of research for this show. Rebecca Saxe and associate professor of cognitive neuroscience at MIT has conducted research on how a mob mentality can prompt individuals to ignore their own morals and commit acts. They would never have considered on their own in. Her study sacks measured the brain activity of people performing a competitive task both alone. And in a group when the participants of the study acted as a group the areas of their brains responsible for self reflection or less active than when they acted alone. They were there for less capable of applying their usual standards of conduct wall Hatfield was able to overcome mob mentality, but the rest of his kin gave into it. After the group crossed the tug. Fork river the posse founded ditch not far from the riverbank a smattering of broadly Papa trees grew within this hollow the Hatfield mob tied the mccoys to the pawpaw trunks. According to witnesses Tober McCoy remained impassive. He said, I want the man who kills me to stand right before my eyes. I want to look him right in the eye ignoring Tolbert's request the hatfields tied him to the tree backwards. So that he wouldn't be able to face his executioner farmer and bud didn't make any final requests. They only sobbed. The firing squad included devil Anse and his sons twenty year old Johnny eighteen-year-old cap and fifteen year old Bob they were joined by several family members and friends, including a man named Ellison mounts known as cotton top due to his white blonde hair. Cotton top was the twenty four year old illegitimate son of Ellison Hatfield, whose death the men were now avenging cotton tops at an later account that a half field ally hung lanterns over the heads of the McCoy brothers. So that the posse would know where to aim moments later the firing squad unleashed a torrent of gunfire. The blast echoed through the mountains. Jim McCoy the oldest of Randolph McCoy sons was still awake that night. His mother Sarah had convinced him to stay away from the trouble because she didn't want another one of her sons to risk his life by getting involved. Jim was restlessly sitting on the front porch of a family friend's house? Waiting for any news to come in? When he heard the shots. He knew what those shots meant. But he hoped his intuition was wrong. He said out into the now silent woods when he came to the palm. Ditch. The hatfill posse was gone, but the bodies of his three brothers remained. The next morning Randolph McCoy returned home from pike Ville, having secured bail and legal representation for his sons only to learn he was too late. The McCoy's called on neighbors to help them retrieve the three bodies and bring them home. They were buried that day. August eleventh eighteen eighty two. Fifty-seven-year-old Randolph McCoy was ready to put together his own Lynch mob, but his wife Sarah convinced him, not to retaliate. She couldn't bear the thought of more killing Randolph relented, but the matter wasn't over the same day his sons were buried Randolph road to the town of pike Bill Kentucky to speak with the county. Prosecutors about filing indictments against his son's killers a month. After the funeral a Kentucky grand jury raw charges against devil lands. His brother wall, his sons, John and cap and sixteen other men for murder. Coming up. We'll talk about the hatfields attempts to evade the law while continuing to stoke the flames of the feud now back to the story. On August tenth eighteen eighty to a group of Hatfield men and allies killed three McCoy brothers. Twenty old Tolbert nineteen year old farmer. An eighteen year old bud and retaliation for the stabbing and killing of Ellison. Hatfield a month later Kentucky at thorns issued indictments for forty three year old devil Anse Hatfield and two of his adult sons, but apprehending the hatfields proved to be difficult. The sheriff of pike Bill Kentucky claim that he didn't have the authority to arrest man outside of his jurisdiction when the court reconvened in February eighteen eighty three six months after the pom-pom murders the record show that beside each indicted man's name. The sheriff wrote not found in this county to avoid capture. It seemed that the hatfields would merely have to remain in their home state of West Virginia the lack of legal repercussions immediately after. After the pom-pom murders may have helped spur later episodes of aggression between the two families sociologist and professor of history. Roberta Senegal wrote that collective violence arises where law is lacking she explained that when thorns are perceived as weak and ineffective civilians are more likely to take the law into their own hands as a method of self help the Kentucky sheriffs failure to act meant that the hatfields weren't afraid of being arrested, but the lack of legal oversight made them feel vulnerable to vigilantism. It's not clear whether any of them accords were seeking retribution at that time. But the Hatfield seem certain that payback was coming research conducted by German psychology and behavioral experts, Robert boom, Hanis rush an Oscar revealed that the perception of an existential threat intensifies a groups hatred of an imposing group moreover this perceived. Threat to an Ingraham triggers. A greater likelihood of preemptive violence towards the out group over the next few years, the Hatfield state in West Virginia hiding out in the woods whenever they felt threatened. Authorities continued to turn a blind eye to their activities, but the hatfields grew increasingly paranoid when one of their forced hideouts burned down. They suspected someone was leaking information about their whereabouts to the mccoys. They believe the most likely culprit to be Nancy McCoy Hatfield. She was the daughter of harm in McCoy the union soldier whose murder had sparked the feud nearly twenty years earlier Nancy McCoy had married Johnny Hatfield in eighteen eighty when she was sixteen and he was eighteen bonanza did not remain enamored of Johnson for long. She quickly grew tired of John sees womanizing, and drinking and she made her feelings clear now that the mccoys had found success in locating their hideouts Johnson, his father devil, Anse worried that the embittered Nancy was passing Hatfield secrets to her sister. Mary who then relaid the details to their ankle Randolph. So in eighteen eighty six devil Anse enlisted his twenty two year old son cap Hatfield to send the McCoy's a message cap Hatfield had become one of his father's fiercest lieutenants in the family war. According to witnesses. Mises cap Hatfield didn't have a quick temper like his brother, Johnny or his father Deva, Lance, but caps common difference. Only made him more unsettling one of his cousins said that quote cap wasn't mean, but if you troubled him, he'd shoot you and shoot you mighty quick to he just didn't care to kill you. That's all cap wanted to stop his sister in law Nancy from leaking information, but as brutal as cap was he was apparently not willing to mess with Nancy McCoy Hatfield. She was described as a hell cat willing to kill any man who crossed her in law or not so cap steered clear of Nancy in targeted. Her sister. Mary who he believed to be the recipient of Nancy's leaks. One summer night cap in his hired hand, Tom Wallace dawned masks, and led a group of a dozen men to the house of Mary McCoy Daniels and her husband Bill Daniels. According to one account Bill Daniels was away that night, leaving his wife elderly mother and children alone cap and Tom Wallace entered the home and rip thirty five year old Mary out of bed. They dragged her to the fireplace and forced her to kneel in front of it. Cap had brought with him a cow tail mopped from one of his life stock and used it as a punishing lash. He whipped Mary across her back until she fainted, the men trudged out leaving Mary unconscious later, she identified Tom Wallace as one of the attackers from the distinctive white streak in his hair. Mary Nancy's brother Jeff McCoy soon heard about the attack this fourth child of Harmon McCoy. Oy. Hastily grabbed his gun and went to the home of Tom Wallace, Tom escape, Jeff's clutches and ran cap hatfields cabin as Tom hidden inside. Jeff trying to scare him out by shooting up the place. It didn't work, but it angered cap Hatfield unhappy to find his cabin riddled with bullet holes. A short time later cap and Tom went out in search of Jeff McCoy when Jeff realized they were looking for him. He led them on a chase through the woods. Jeff tried to swim across the tug for river. But as he reached the other side and began to climb up the Bank cap Hatfield Anton Wallace spotted him and fatally shot him in the back. The following spring of eighteen eighty seven Tom Wallace was discovered shot dead near his home in West Virginia. Most residents believed he was murdered by Jake and Mark McKoy the second and third children of harm in McCoy the McCoy brothers claim they had nothing to do with it. But they had been vocal about their grudge against Tom Wallace ever since the beating of their Sister, Mary and the death of their brother, Jeff this back and forth. Vigilantism seem like it might go on forever in eighteen eighty seven five years after the pom-pom murders sixty two year old Randolph McCoy still hope that the law would intervene to end the violence. Although with authorities had thus far been ineffective in bringing any hatfields into custody. Randolph still had an important ally. On his side, Perry Cline? Perry. Cline was a friend of the McCoy family with his own grudges against the hatfields. His sister Patty Klein McCoy was the widow of in McCoy, which meant that Mary Nancy Jeff lurk and Jake were his nieces and nephews he wasn't pleased about their repeated run ins with cap Hatfield. Not only that Perry. Cline was still nursing an even older resentment Perry had once been the neighbor of devil Anse Hatfield until Deva. Lance sued him for trespassing and took five thousand acres of his land. As a settlement Perry. Cline had moved at pike. Ville in the early eighteen seventies by eighteen eighty seven. He was thirty eight years old and had become a lawyer. And prominent democrat among Kentucky's political circles, it was an election year and a man named Simon Bolivar Buckner was a democratic candidate running for governor Perry Cline made Buckner an ally by. Promising to campaign for him in his part of the state Klein delivered and Buckner was inaugurated on August thirtieth eighteen eighty seven. Perry. Cline was quick to call in a return favor. He asked the governor to finally act on the Hatfield indictments Buckner agreed and issued a five hundred dollar bounty for each of the hatfields capture on September tenth. He contacted west Virginia's governor Willis Wilson and sent a formal request. For extradition of the men Wilson was slow to act so Buckner also appointed a friend of Klein's a deputy sheriff known as bad Frank Phillips to bring the men in twenty five year old bad Frank Phillips was described his graceful looking with a smooth hairless face and soft expressive is his delicate appearance. Led many to underestimate him in truth. He was a ruthless two nations bulldog of a man. Over the next few months bad. Frank led several raids into West Virginia in search of the indicted hatfields, the participants of the Paul Paul murder firing squad were forced into hiding. They couldn't stay in one place for more than a night or two out of fear of being caught. They lived like nomads moving around from the home of one relative to another and even camping in caves and ditches the hatfields knew that this life was unsustainable. Deva Lance even tried to bribe Perry Cline with two hundred and twenty five dollars to end his pursuit Perry Cline kept the money, but he didn't stop bad Frank from continuing his efforts. On New Year's Eve of eighteen eighty seven the hatfields had been invading bad Frank Phillips for three months and avoiding their indictments for five years. They seem resigned to the fact that they might soon be arrested and charged if they couldn't stop the raids they could at least eliminate any witnesses who might eventually testify against them that afternoon devil. Lance his sons cap and John C his nephew cotton top mounts, and a handful of others men in the home of Jim Vance. The held a council to make sure all the men were in agreement together they worked out a plan to murder sixty two year old Randolph McCoy and his family. Jim Vance seem especially vehement that it was time to end the feud once and for all in a final tidal wave of violence, his great nephew cap Hatfield was similarly eager. But some members of the family were having second thoughts. Thoughts. As soon as the sky grew dark. The men were ready to write off to the McCoy homestead if any of them felt unsure about their mission. Jim Vance had taken care of that. He had whipped them into a bloodthirsty frenzy. He blamed the mccoys for all the troubles eight had since Frank Phillips had started hunting them down. But devil Anse felt strange to his own surprise. He felt reluctant to go through with their plan. He wasn't a coward after everything he'd done. Nobody could accuse them of that. But he was tired every time he closed his eyes to go to sleep. He wondered if he'd wake up to find the barrel of a gun pointed at his face. This was all happening because he killed those McCoy boys in a fit of rage. Now uncle Jim wanted to finish off the rest of the McCoy, Ken. But what good would it do if anything it would only bring more indictments? On their heads. The men were ready to go loaded with guns feeling numb devil. Lance started to walk towards his horse. But then he stopped. He told the men that he was feeling ill. If they wanted to go ahead. They could he would even give them his best gun, but they would have to go on without him. Jim. Vance led a group of nine men across the tug fork river into Kentucky the temperature was freezing earlier that day. There had been a downpour, sleet. But the skies were now clear leaving the group with few obstacles essay road. The group's snuck up a hill leading to Randolph Sarah McCoy's modest cabin as a crept through the darkness. They crashed into a fence sending the post clattering down the hill, the group hastily retreated worried that the noise had warned the McCoy's of their approach after a quick discussion. They decided to call the attack that night. But Jim Vance insisted that they all return the following night January. I eighteen eighty eight in order to finish the job. Coming up. We'll talk about the New Year's day massacre and the aftermath now the conclusion to our story. After twenty years of bloodshed between the Hatfield and McCoy families, a group of Hatfield men decided to settle the feud once and for all led by sixty one year old Jim Vance the troop headed for the McCoy family farm on the night of January. I eighteen eighty eight on a mission to kill the whole family. Around ten thirty pm the men lined up in front of the farmhouse inside the large family slept Randolph McCoy his wife, Sarah as well as four of their children who still lived at home twenty five year old Calvin and his sisters twenty nine year old ala fair seventeen year old Adelaide and fourteen year old fanny and addition there were two small grandchildren Mel and Cora. They were the son and daughter of Tolbert McCoy left fatherless after the Paul Palmer's as the Hatfield mauled move forward. A dog began to bark the McCoy family woke up in alarm Randolph in Calvin grab their guns and began to fire at the doors. John C Hatfield took a bullet in his shoulder and cotton top mounts was shot in the arm. But this didn't stop the hatfields from returning fire. Jim. Vance took a match to a bag of cotton leaning against the house and the cabin began to burn. Allah, fair dashed outside to grab a bucket of water from the well to put out the fire as soon as she left the house cap Hatfield and cotton top mounts began to shoot Allah. Fair was struck in the chest. Her mother, Sarah, ignore the bullets flying in all directions and raced out of the house to Allah fair side, Jim van spotted her and ordered her back inside when she ignored him. He struck her with his gun barrel knocking her down and breaking two of her ribs. But Sarah kept moving forward now on her hands and knees crawling to Allah fair before she could reach your daughter Johnson Hatfield leapt Ford ambassador school with his pistol. She finally collapsed unconscious overwhelmed by smoke Randolph grabbed his grandson Mel and ran to a neighbor's barn Calvin tried to follow but was fatally shot in the head his sisters Adelaide and fanny. He managed to escape the burning house with Cora at that point the hatfields began to retreat smelling, the smoke neighbors arrived to help they carried the unconscious Serra McCoy to the home of her oldest son, Jim, but Allah fair was beyond helping she died on the ground or she had fallen the McCoy's buried their children, Allah Farren Calvin the following day afterwards Randolph wrote back to pike Ville to again, press Perry. Cline for help Klein intern advise bad Frank Phillips to double his efforts a few days later bad Frank planned, another raid into West Virginia. He took with him a twenty three men posse including several McCoy family members. The group discovered a trail of blood on the ground year Randolph McCoy's burnt out cabin bad. Frank had a hunch that the blood would lead to an injured Hatfield. So they followed the trail soon. They came across Jim Vance and cap Hatfield. Jim and cap dove behind some rocks as posse thunder toward them. According to family stories, Jim Vance felt sick that day from eating too much raccoon meet he told cap that he had no plans to run. He would stay in fight ordering cap to go find reinforcements as he fled. Jim tried to hold the men off. But he was shot in the arm while Jim Lee bleeding on the ground bad Frank strode over and shot him in the head. When cap reached his father's camp and told the men what had happened. They rallied a group to fight the Kentucky posse, but the two groups never met that day after killing Jim Vance bad Frank and the Kentucky posse went onto the home Valentine wall Hatfield and placed him under arrest. They escorted wall and five other Hatfield prisoners back to the jail and pike Ville Kentucky. Bad Frank planned another rate for January eighteenth eighteen eighty eight he brought thirty three men with him. This time the remaining hatfields where warrant of his arrival and they had prepared themselves for confrontation Deva Lance had refused to participate in the New Year's attack. But he felt compelled to defend his family in the wake of Jim Vance's death. He called on cousins neighbors and even to west Virginian lawmen to help the areas constable John Thompson and special deputy Bill Dempsey were evidently, not pleased with the way these Kentucky inns were invading their territory, they felt bound to protect their own citizens. Even those wanted for murder, the two groups clashed at grapevine creek about a mile east of the tug fork river near the home of cap Hatfield, the Hatfield spotted Jim McCoy, I he was carrying the gun. His brother Calvin had used the night. Of the New Year's massacre. Jim managed to hit special deputy Bill Dempsey with his first shot, the Hatfield scuttled for cover as more. Members of the Kentucky posse appeared. The hatfields returned fire. The Kentucky posse climbdown off their horses and dill behind a nearby stonewall from those positions the two groups fired on each other for over two hours. It became clear to the hatfields that they were outnumbered and they began to retreat Bill Dempsey injured by Jim McCoist shot but still alive try to crawl away bad Frank Phillips coldly placed the barrel of his gun against Dempsey's neck and blew his head off. None of the hatfields were captured that day, but they were stunned by the battle and by the casual cruelty of Frank Phillips. They were beginning to understand that Phillips was willing to go to any links done them down after the battle of grapevine creek devil. Anse sent a letter to the Winchester company in Massachusetts placing an order for ten thousand rounds of ammunition and twenty-five new Winchester, repeating rifles, which could be fired many times without reloading. These guns were an upgrade from the one shot rifles and muzzle loading guns. Many of the Hatfield had been carrying the shipment would arrive the following October if devil Anse couldn't beat the Kentucky inns a numbers, he could at least have superior firepower. The battle of grapevine creek didn't just alarm the hatfields for many residents of tuck fork. It invoked memories of the civil war the drama of the. Vent caught the attention of journalists who began to sink their teeth into the story. Many newspapers took sides in the feud by embellishing the indecency of one side or the other one report claimed without evidence that bad Frank Phillips, not only shot Bill Dempsey, but also picked his pockets after he died another reporter for the Pittsburgh times. Extolled the doggedness of Frank Phillips and express sympathy for the McCoy family, while labeling the hatfields as a cowardly gang band together for the purpose of murder, the hostility spread to the local and state politicians west Virginia's governor Wilson objected to the arrest of wall Hatfield and the others taken into custody. He claimed they had been taken without any legal process and unlawfully transferred across state lines. He demanded the prisoners be released Kentucky's governor Buckner refused by his reckoning. He wasn't under any obligation to release the men. He felt that once the prisoners were in his state's custody Kentucky had the right to try them for any crimes. They had committed within their jurisdiction. The matter went before a court and Louisville which determined that it did not have jurisdiction over controversy between two states. According to the US constitution only. The US supreme court had the power to decide such a dispute the supreme court heard the case on April twenty third eighteen eighty eight the court agreed with Kentucky that however the men had been brought into the state even if the manner of their capture was a legal. They could still be legally tried once they were in custody Kentucky was free to prosecute the men already behind bars. The ruling of the supreme court rattled the hatfields. It also Blida rated any expectation that the Justice system would treat them fairly to them. The actions of bad Frank Phillips amounted to kidnapping. The work of Janice Nadler, a research, professor of law and psychology showed that when people feel that they are treated fairly by the Justice system. They are less likely to reaffirmed in the future. Conversely, when people view the law as unjust. They are more likely to act out with criminal behavior. If the hatfields were comfortable evading the law before the supreme court decision only made them more defiant. In the summer of eighteen eighty eight. Rumors spread throughout the tug fork valley that dozens of bounty hunters were combing the mountains in search of hatfields cotton top mounts was caught by two detectives and taken into custody there. He joined wall Hatfield along with about a dozen other men indicted for feud related crimes the trial for the eighteen eighty two pom-pom murders began in August of eighteen eighty nine in an odd change of heart Perry Cline, decided to take up the legal defense of all Hatfield, some say, this was because wall offered him more money, which overruled claims friendship with McCoy's. Others say Perry was still loyal to the mccoys and his defensive wall was a sham. Perhaps the ladder theory was correct wall Hatfield was found guilty in his trial and given a life sentence. Wall was shocked by the decision. He was one of the few hatfields that had tried to temper some of the flames of the feud, and was sure he would be acquitted. He wasn't the only one bewildered by his trials outcome. Cotton top mounts had participated in both the Popol murders and the New Year's raid. But he hadn't planned them. He had just gone along with what Hatfield leaders had told him to do. He was described as easily influenced some historians have indicated that he may have had an intellectual handicap while in custody cotton top confessed to the New Year's raid. Murder of twenty nine year old ala fair McCoy some reporters speculated that he was bribed into doing. So one article suggested that cap Hatfield promise cotton top five hundred dollars a rifle and a new saddle if he would take the fall for the murder, the Hatfield seemed to hope that by making cotton top. Scapegoat. The rest of them would get off lightly. If cotton top was promised a small fortune in exchange for pleading guilty, he would never get to enjoy it following the trial of Allah fares murder. He was sentenced to be hanged. His execution was scheduled for February eighteenth eighteen ninety. Cotton top waited on the edge of his cot. He was told that his mother would soon be arriving to visit him. He wanted to see her one last time to hear her promise that she would not be present for the hanging. No mother should have to see that. As he waited. He couldn't stop a flicker of hope from consuming his thoughts. There was still time for rescue. Maybe his family would storm the jail and break him out. There were rumors that cap Hatfield might be planning such a scheme thinking about cap made cotton top feel angry. He was the real culprit. They were both guilty of shooting up the McCoy's farm house, but it was caps bullet that it struck the McCoy girl, Allah fair contact felt sure of it. Cotton top could hear a crowd beginning to form outside spectators for the hanging, but nobody came to break down the jail doors and set him free contacts hope curdled into despair he had wasted. So much of the last few years hating McCoy's, but he didn't feel any hate. Now. They weren't responsible for him being here. It was his own kin the half fields who had pushed him to violence. Cotton top at unleashed his worst impulses for the sake of his family. Now, his family had abandoned him witnesses on February eighteenth send that just before the executioners covered his face with a black hood cotton top cried out the hatfields made me do it. An estimated seven thousand people came to see the hanging including Randolph McCoy afterwards. Tensions. Seem to settle contact wasn't the only guilty party, but many tug fork residents just seemed happy that someone anyone had paid for the havoc the feud caused the violence sedate had cost the Hatfield seven lives, and the mccoys ten now the families were no longer out for blood most of the remaining mccoys moved away from tug fork settling permanently in pike Ville, Kentucky Sarah Randolph for too heartbroken to think of vengeance. They have lost their sons Tolbert farmer and bud in the pom-pom murders of eighteen eighty two their son Calvin and their daughter alla fair died in the New Year's massacre of eighteen eighty eight. Roseanna McCoy had been cast out by her family in eighteen eighty after her fair with John Hatfield, but she had restored ties after the New Year's massacre to take care of her injured mother, even after reuniting with her family Rosanna suffered from severe depression in the spring of eighteen eighty nine her family reported that she seemed to be wasting away one night twenty nine year old Rosanna went to bed and never woke up her close friend and sister-in-law Martha McCoy would later say she died of a broken heart Roseanne is younger brother Bill had suffered from unbearable guilt ever since the Popol murders. Bill along with his brothers farmer and Tolbert had taken part in the stabbing of Ellison Hatfield, but when the Hatfield mob came to settle the score. They had taken bud McCoy instead of Bill Bill carried the responsible. Ability of his brother's death on his conscience for years in October eighteen eighty nine at the age of twenty three he fell ill and died Randolph McCoy remained bitter for the rest of his life. But he felt it best that the feud come to an end before could claim any more lives, the Hatfield suffered fewer losses, but came to the same conclusion on February twenty fourth 1891 Twenty-seven-year-old cap Hatfield sent a letter to the editor published in the Wayne County news in this letter cap wrote the war spirit in me has abated and I sincerely rejoice at the prospect of peace. I have devoted my life to arms we have undergone a fearful loss of noble lives and valuable property in the struggle now, I propose to rest in a spirit of peace caps at a to'real didn't mention the fact that he was still wanted for murder in Kentucky. He also oversold his purported spirit of peace in eighteen ninety six cap was arrested after a shoot-out unrelated to the mccoys and convicted of manslaughter the crime carried only a one year sentence, which cap served in a small county jail in Williamson West Virginia. He was worried that if he stayed in custody he might be extradited to Kentucky so three months into his sentence campus gift from the jail using a drill that his wife managed to sneak in my most accounts, he fled to Oklahoma his spirit did eventually settle in his time away. He attended law school after a decade cap returned to West Virginia to start a legal practice. Capsule, their brother, John also carved out a new life for himself after the feud his hell cat life Nancy McCoy Hatfield divorced him. She in fact, left him for bad Frank Phillips, but Jones he remarried and started a logging business. His rule in the feud seemed to be in the distant past, however, a US marshal named Dan Cunningham was still interested in collecting the five hundred dollar rewards for the capture of any indicted hatfields in June of eighteen ninety nine Cunningham nab Johnny in the town of Gilbert. West Virginia and escorted him to Kentucky for trial Johnson was found guilty and he received a life sentence. But six years into the sentence, another inmate attack the warden of the prison jonky fought the other inmate off and as a reward he was granted parole. Unlike his sons devil Anse never saw. The inside of a jail. He kept up his quiet life in the mountains in nineteen eleven seventy two year old devil. Anse sent a message to Randolph. Mccoy's oldest son Jim Deva Lance offered. Jim a sum of ten thousand dollars and asked whether the indictment against him could be withdrawn Jim McCoy refused the offer. But sent back message telling devil Anse that he had let go of all resentments, and he did not consider the hatfields to be a target any longer even as the Hatfield McCoy families moved on from the feud the story has become immortalized as an American legend. It may be that people see their own grudges and passions echoed in the conflict. Psychologists, Michael McCulloch, Robert curse. Ben and Benjamin. Toback have suggested that revenge is a universal and necessary human add obtain often, but their work also states that the capacity for forgiveness is just as inherent to the human. Experience the final peaceful outcome of the Hatfield McCoy feud seemed to prove their points. Thanks again for tuning into crimes of passion. We will be back Wednesday with another up Assode, you can find more episodes of crimes of passion as well. As all parkas other shows on Spotify or your favorite podcast directory. Several of you have asked how to help us if you enjoy the show the best way to help us to leave a five star review. Don't forget to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at par cast and Twitter at par cast network. We'll see you next time when true love Meech true crime. Crimes of passion was created. By max Cutler as production of color media. And as part of the park has network. It is produced by Maxon Ron Cutler with sound design by Michael lanes ner production assistance by Ron Shapiro and Paul liba skin additional production assistance by Maggie admire and Freddie, Beckley crimes of passion is written by Christine. Pam he's I'm leaning Hobbs.

Randolph McCoy McCoy Nancy McCoy Hatfield murder Ellison Hatfield Kentucky Jim McCoy West Virginia cap Hatfield Frank Phillips Patty Klein McCoy Hatfield Jim Vance Johnny Hatfield Jim Perry Cline Anse Deva Lance Johnson Hatfield Hatfield
115 - Hatfield-McCoy Feud

Timesuck with Dan Cummins

2:17:55 hr | 2 years ago

115 - Hatfield-McCoy Feud

"Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Law now go now feel McCoy few if. Yeah. Murder more murder. Vigilante Justice more murder revenge killings posses being formed a father losing and five of his children's lives to another families violence still hog a family home burned to the ground by an angry mob government, corruption forbidden, love affairs lot of drama in today's tale. The Hatfield mccoys repeatedly attacked one another in the rural tug river valley. Separating West Virginia and Kentucky for over a decade in the late nineteenth century two. Patriarchs Deva lands Hatfield and old Randall McCoy, let their hatred of one another infect I their entire families and then entire region of the country governor pitted against governor West Virginia versus Kentucky supreme court of the United States would end up getting involved few general last for many decades. So how did it all start? How did it finally end? And how much blood was shed in between the origins and the dirty deeds of America's most famous. You'd revealed today on time suck. Have you Monday time soccer's hail Nimrod Hailu Safina praise. Bojangles hail. Triple m Dan comes the master sucker. And you are listening to time suck recording suck dungeon today. In court. Elaine, Idaho, Reverend Dr Joe motherfucking paisley. Hope you loved him on last week's special guest addition of it is the internet. He did some magic today to had some tech problems recording this episode the day before thanksgiving it was looking rough. But Joe he figured out some wizard trick from some wizard forum and got us going. Hope y'all had a one thanksgiving. I know I did record this again beforehand. I'm sorry. I hope I did. How would I know? I haven't had it yet. Or my talking about time gets confusing here. Sometimes Gordon episodes in advance just going to be Lindsey ni- and penny ginger this this past thanksgiving. And I'm guessing we were able to relax lots. I know in this moment that I record this. I'm very much looking forward to that just to chill out for a couple of days and just for being thankful man super thankful for this little world. And how far it's comes. We started and all of your guys support like very, very thankful. Somebody little cool things. I was coming back from Grand Rapids. This this past week is walk into the Spokane airports and space lizard, don't know his name because he was on the other side of security glass who's coming into the airport. I'm leaving he's in little TSA area. And and he just mouths the words, you know, actually, I can't say 'cause it's for space only he mouth a secret spaces or code. I knew what he said I gave him a secret spaces or hand sign. He gave it back to me. It was it was very cool moment that I'm super thankful to have life experiences. Like that. Yeah. Just thankful for man. You guys sharing this podcast with your friends and families and just seeing grow, and you know, Senate in stories of reconnecting with family members. Kevin something new to talk about every week reconnect with old friends making new friends having fun with your with your lovers and your spouses and just enjoying the silly little world that that we've created right? Just basically try to be honest. Try to make fun turn out to shove either a conservative or liberal agenda down your throat and just try to instill re-instill, a childlike sense of wonder about the world some important, man. And so fun just to be like a kid that way and just be curious and excited about stuff. Just just have a Reverend fun with stuff. I've said it before. But it's like, my grandma always said, you can you can laugh or you can cry. I loved it our community can just laugh about almost fucking anything. It's I think super healthy and Superfund love you meet sacks. So so thank you for giving me the most meaning work wise for sure that my life has ever had a now, let me awkwardly transition from heart warming, thanks to a blatant sales pitch, speak speaking of meaning there's no there's no segue. But I want say cyber Monday sale happening now in time suck store everything in this up. Shop is twenty five percent off using the discount code cyber Monday eighteen so cyber Monday in the number eighteen during checkout, and it'll be a banner that says that on our store so make real easy. Just cannot be combined with the spaces or twenty percent discounts. But yeah. Twenty five percent off of everything and the offers good through this next Sunday sunny. Day Sunday coffee tumblers challenge coins? Hoodies beanies loose. Athena, sleep were set. So many sweet tea's, vinyl, decals, all kinds of exotic animal skins and furs and body parts. Twenty five percent of all twenty five percent off. It all ends at midnight Pacific time, Sunday, November seconds. We were gonna start at this past Friday black Friday, but I messed up fucked up forgot s- based on recording schedules win, the episodes were coming out based compared to when I was recording them and didn't realize last week when I recorded that I was recording thanksgiving new world order episode when I should've mentioned it there. But we're still doing to sell for a full week all ends up to same all comes out in the wash. So thanks again for spread in the sock bypassing around new preview videos for episodes. We put on Instagram Twitter and Facebook at times podcast sharing. Those clips tagging friends retweeting all spreads suck. Now. Thank you to the street suck or this time suck street team streets, three sucks. Different time. Suck street team was announced in the private Facebook group awhile back. Some you lovely time suckers now spreading sucked by blanketing very sections of the world with LUSA Phoenix face. My face other time suck our work had somewhat response that and I know I never mentioned that on the the podcast before. But that was intentional. We wanted to mention it in the private Facebook group. I feel responded, and we had way more interest, and we had stickers which again 'nother thing to be thankful for. So hopefully, this three team goes, well, people actually put the stickers that they've got around around their towns and communities, and then we'll we'll buy a whole bunch more serious, and they're really cool danger. Rented a good job on those. They do on everything. And then. We'll we'll get a bunch more people involved. I just love that people were excited to be involved. Yeah. Turns that I did have a great time in Grand Rapids Michigan last week and holy shit. Every show outside of Thursday was sold out. Most an advance. This is this is new territory for me. Thanks to all of you who made long drives for those shows. Thanks to Jeff and Cadillac for showing up so many years in a row now and thanks to a few times suckers for for some green medicine. Thanks to C four in Washington for handed out some delicious edible medicine when I flew back into Spokane the ride it just keeps getting more fun. Yes. Forget I'm going to be only be tuneup. A lot of that as I just kind of relaxed a little bit get some rest over thanksgiving weekend. All be Spokane comedy club, November twenty ninth thirtieth and December first tickets really sellin fast for those shows so happy. Thanks. The spokesman review for interviewing me for those shows look forward to that coming out, and they'll be in Saint Louis December six two nights, wrapping up the flutters tour. Those will be the last ones happy murder tour next year. I'll pose. Dates for that soon got most next year booked, and and then after that state last night Lewis show, I'll switch gears and prep for that. Ted talk Ted talk and coordinated Kroc center, January twelve link for that in the episode description, very excited to think about what's gone on the last two years here. And and think about how to share that TED talks, hopefully will inspire other people to pursue their passions and make the most out of them. Now, let's get suck. And I'm very excited that a lot of fun research in this a lot of fun a suck bunch of McCoy's. A lot of hatfields in today's Bigalow. Meet sex showdown. All right. The time and the place today's tale factors. Largely news stories always seems too few to the magnitude of the hatfields versus McCoy's wouldn't take place in America today. Today's laws current level of media coverage just never allow the combination of vengeance. And vigilante Justice to to go on for as long as it did. And yes in actually there weren't many places this series of events could have unfolded elsewhere in mid to late nineteenth century, America. Either a life was just different in the tug valley than it was for for much of the nation. Dentistry was frowned upon clothing. Optional is were Beatty. Many folks walked on four legs instead of two dogs oranges pets, they doubled his actual legal brides for for many valley. Resins a local pastor saw what was inevitable and thought he couldn't stop vomit -able unions. He might as he might as well make him official name is a God hogs or just for love. Neither many hogs actually help provide for their human families taking up farming logging fur-trapping. Jobs put food on their tables, the line between animal and man became blurred. And then legend has it it actually merged and new races of hog folk and dog folk were brought into the world and the tug valley, and and then those hog folk became known as the hatfields and those dog folk became known as the mccoys and everybody knows duck folk don't miss know-how folk now out a few guk. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry life wasn't that different in the valley. And again, I wonder what the people of stairs the noises here from the suck dungeon. The valley where the famous Hatfield McCoy feud to place was nestled in the rural mountainous region of Appalachia nailed it Appalachia. That's not how they say. It's on the pronunciation guides. But I learned I learned last time we were in this region the country that if you are from Appalachia, you don't say Appalachia, that's that. That's how you know. You know, folk, you know, dog folk go. Yeah. Anyway. Yes. Nestled in the rural region of Appalachia at the border of Kentucky and West Virginia right on the border. There was centered on the valley of the tug fork because big old big sandy river, one of the least hospitable parts of the Appalachian highlands here. The tug fork forms both natural and political boundary. Dividing the states of Kentucky in West Virginia. However, while the river did divide the two states didn't divide the tug river valley community, both the Hatfield mccoys. They had relatives on both sides of the river. The hats family had his largest concentration in Logan county. West Virginia in the mccoys were most numerous in pike county Kentucky with the two clans did travel continuously back and forth between West Virginia and Kentucky which just ended up adding to the feud because we're always in contact with one another the tug valley was is extremely remote one of the largest Choubey one of the last areas. Settle in both West Virginia and eastern Turkey. The first settlers mostly of Scottish descent scotch Irish descent arrived from southwestern Virginia around eighteen. Hundred and if you'll recall from the Andrew Jackson, suck these early Scots are the origin of Boza term redneck and the term hillbilly quick recap the origins of those two terms the term redneck counts from sixteenth century Scotland when Presbyterian rebels rose up against the church of England sign manifestos in their own blood hardcore, then we're red close around their necks to signify the rebellion during the bishops war of sixteen forty in Scotland the term hillbilly comes from the term hill folk Scott's from the highlands of Scotland we're called hill folk and then during another war, the sixteen hundreds of Scots who supported king William of England were called Billy boys after their patron king. You know, William king, Billy hill folk who were called Billy boys, then called hillbilly boys, which eventually was shortened to hillbillies and that name followed them to colonial America. And then both the terms redneck and hillbilly became a derogatory racial slurs essentially synonymous with rough rugged ignorant rural folk quick to fight. Maybe. Slow to take up reading and writing and arithmetic and the tug river valley elements this derogatory description actually did fit for many, and I say that someone with a with the Scottish last name of Cummins and over sixty percent British and Irish I'll answers ancestry. Lot of my ancestors were probably some of these rough rugged on educated people education. It was just hard to come by in the valley. There were a few school houses in the region. But kids only ten school for three months out of the year, most dropped out entirely after only a couple years, and the majority of people in the tug valley were illiterate throughout the early nineteenth century this region remained extremely isolated with frontier conditions persisting. They are even as the rest of the region around them progressed and developed the area also suffer from extreme income inequality. Most of the land was owned by small percentage of the population. In some eastern Kentucky counties up to seventy four percent of the population. Landless a minority population of back country elite dominated extremely Krupp, local, politics and hatfields. Mccoy's they belong to this back country elite the patriarchs of each family, were landowners and kept a considerable number of livestock. They held similar social and economic standing. The hatfields were better off what actually ended up becoming quite a bit better off during the few. Just just you know, a a little clip up above the McCoy's. But both clans were were well off for West Virginia kind of tug river valley standards. And they both had a numerous family members serving in local politics in the judiciary system, both Kentucky and West Virginia. And again hatfields would have an advantage. There seemed to be more of them seem to have more prestigious positions around the committee. But both of them had some pull that fills McCoy's occasionally intermarried over the years, and they're intertwined social familial political relationships created a complex network of allegiances that would make feud more complicated. Add to the violence, another important point to make before we get into the time line of the Hatfield mccoys feud is that feuds were not unusual in this area. At this time, no less than six major feud took place in the Kentucky side of the tug. Fork the sandy river in the wake of the civil war and additional also took place nearby Perry and Roane counties a lot of these were partly due to conflicting loyalties in the area during the civil war and then afterwards, both West Virginia Kentucky struggled with union and confederate loyalty. West Virginia was formed when a total of fifty counties chose to succeed from confederate for and former new union estate officially admitted to the union in eighteen sixty three. However, some West Virginia residents, including the hatfields still had confederate loyalty still had confederate sympathies and took it as a sign of treason, if one of their own supported the union these future also partly due to the clannish hillbillies of his area acting like Clinton ability the scotch Irish area. Other poor rural whites wanna Torian clannish. Just like, you know, the courts after the civil war did not protect African Americans. Equal to widen. Reckons? They also didn't protect all white Americans equally in the racial pecking order of white America, this time know, hillbillies, we're at the bottom. These scotch-irish were at the bottom many found strength in numbers due to their rural backwoods kind of living situations. The law wasn't always easy to find. Was often very corrupt, and they just these families would take it upon themselves dole out and seek Justice and the combination clans Vigilanteism that's perfect. You know, kind of environment for feuds most of the foods manifestations of power struggles between prominent local families like feels McCoy's product of competition for for land, wealth and power. Just just countries, you know, say motivation for countries fighting when another, you know, a lot of those trickle down to these feuds just one family wanting, you know, more more power more land more wealth on I was trying to take it for another family finally view took place directly on a state line. The majority of the half as we said lived on the on the West Virginia side of the tug fork. And the majority of McCoy's of Kentucky side, and if you'll recall way back from way back in the bunny, and CLYDE suck. If you're an outlaw in the early twentieth century crossing state lines often gave you the chance to escape with authorities starting life. You felt a little bolder to go break some laws in a in a nearby states because you. Oh, back to go to different state and get away with it. This was even more true in the late nineteenth century, the federal government, not as strong as it is today, especially when it came to law enforcement, and you know, one state was usually extremely reluctant to push into another state to apres Hindu criminal. And if they did do that local government in that state could and would often push back against the other states officers, maybe not recognize them as being lost recognize him as trespassers. So, you know, in some ways different states where we're almost like different countries. It's another understand a little bit about the context. Take some broad strokes to the two biggest players by foreign today's tale of the patriarchs of the Hatfield and McCoy clients, maybe the most important character in the feud is Devlin's Hatfield have paid have man headed home full about no hall, folk don't take. No for no doll folk. Sorry, Lea leader of that Bill Clinton patriarch of one half of the information infamous feud born William Anderson, Hatfield an eighteen thirty nine Deva lands. Hatfield grew up in. What is now Logan county? West Virginia born raised the tug valley soured and West Virginia Wayne from his mama's sweet Tate's route there in Nevada. Yeah. Hatfields or some of the first settlers in the region and the river serves the boundary between Kentucky and Virginia. One of the eighteen children born to Ephraim and Nancy Hatfield Deva lands half filled and star if I keep repeating some of these details there's so many characters in today's tale. I kept just having to do like mental recaps to remind myself of what in the hell is happening. It was become more important as the story goes on. But. Yeah. Devils while one of eighteen kids born to Ephraim Nancy Hatfield known to be an excellent marksman and horse rider eighteen kits eighteen kits sweet Jesus. Poor poor mother. I'm surprised more women didn't kill her husband's back. Then you're gonna hear about a lot more women. Have a lot more kids. That's just ridiculous amount of pregnancy. I told him to not put a seed in me. No moss. I told him I said, Robert, Bob, McAllister, FitzGerald, you take that devil. Stiff, and you special baby post on that deal flow pregnant full teen, my twenty seven years on this. I'm John look like ole witch lost of fat with the bail. And he went to mount Manny house, and that's when I my husband dead. Said the young William hatfill was so strong and fears that he could take on the devil himself, which is supposedly where his devil nickname may have come from another room regarding his nickname is revolves around him fighting off a mountain lines of bare hands as youth tougher than devil. Eighteen sixty one devil Hatfield a married. A LeVine shaven daughter of neighboring farmer and right after marrying her off to civil war. He goes fighting on the side of the confederacy. He ended up a local confederacies confederacy supporting militia known as the Logan Wildcats with his uncle Jim Vance Jim known locally crazy Jim after the war ended Hatfield settled down with vic- turned to farming cutting timber buying real estate heaven bear cubs for pets seriously and pumping out thirteen kits that I asked I tell don't tell you spill your seat us out of me pregnant, again, you bastard, I have any more babies I'm just gonna let him fall out to push fall out of my poll woman, hold it won't. Close baby's going to fall out whilst I'm walking over to spit on your grave ambitious aggressive had field created one of the most successful timber businesses in the area vigorously defendant, eventually taken a man to court because he reportedly cut timber from Hatfield, Lance. This man was Perry Cline? He'll factor in today's tale had failed won his suit against Perry. Cline perry. Cline would later. Bring national attention to the feud Perry Cline, the relative by marriage, and friend, and then attorney to the McCoy's Randolph. Randall McCoy Devlin's future nemesis core victory. Devlin's had over Perry. Ended up giving the devil five thousand acres of Perry's land making him one of the biggest if not the biggest landowners in the valley. So that's Dev. Lance powerful landowner, especially for this for this area. Important patriarch of the Hatfield side of the food and toughest shit. You know, maybe maybe he did fight off mount line when he was a kid, maybe he didn't. But by the end of the story. He'll he'll seem like a man capable of doing that. So it's talking about his nemesis. Randall McCoy headed a dog vote. Oh, born Randolph McCoy eighteen twenty five. And by the way, getting confused. They were never referred to as doc vogue and hog folk. That's my little thing. I'm run with it the rest of the suck. But I want you to ever be talking to somebody and think. Yeah. Yeah. There was dog born Randolph coin eighteen twenty five in the tug Rivoli Randall later, sometimes known as old Randall born fourteen years prior to devil. He's one of thirteen kids because apparently back then you had to have at least thirteen kids. Thank you, scientists for birth control. Thank you for the sect Amies. Thank you for dismantling, my balls, preventing me from from place in the curse of having far too many kids upon myself. Mccoy grew up in poverty, his Father Daniel had little interest in work. So as mother Margaret had struggled to care for feed and clothe the family eighteen forty nine McCoy, married. His first cousin Sarah Sally McCoy, doc, folk Mirren dog folk on won't do know. How haven't hall folktales the bloodlines like, mama anto? Daddy, grandpa uncle don't poke you'll flesh inside. No one who went kin. Bending ding, dang mingling. Dane. Dilling dang bang building. Bang bang bang to be fair as we have learned before. Marrying? Cousins wasn't just some hillbilly thing. Royals often would cousins even Einstein Mary his first if you'll actually recall Einstein, Elsa, Einstein Albert's his second wife. Oh, it was our first cousin on his mother's side and second cousin on his father's side double cousins. So I guess what? I'm trying to say is random coy was probably genius Sally haired land from her father a few years after they married Luggy for Randall, and they settled on this three hundred acre spread in pike county Kentucky where they had seventeen kids together. Seven teen kits before eventually Sally wised up and put a mouse trap inside her vagina. Oh, damn you scheming woman. You broke my damn Pekka. You damn near snap it in to your mouse trap, which trickery. I'm honestly surprised at anal sex wasn't way more popular back then like like, maybe initially in your marriage as as lady a lady of the tug valley, you don't have any interest anal sex. But then I think like after the twelfth kid, I would think you'd consider it. I'm surprised more women were just like, okay. Okay. If you if you have to keep putting that somewhere, you put it back there, you put it you put my back Dover Jonah, you know, but but if nine minutes later, I'll give birth to some, but baby Damon, I will kill you random car. I meant to say nine minutes, I feel like the Jess station period for a demon. But baby would be shorter than for a human baby. Anyway, about bud babies war. It's never enough actually about bugbears. I could talk about all day long during the civil war, though, McCoy served as a soldier for the confederacy as well. He may have actually served in that same local malicious Deva lances later nemesis. While most of the McCoy's supported the confederacy Reynolds brother as. A Harmon McCoy fought for the union side. And this is important to note because his death would kind of be the start of the future would at least, you know, get brought up later as far as some bad blood as because as a returned home. He hit on a cave. He's ostracized from his community for support in the union. But he couldn't hide, you know, forever. Eighteen sixty five he was shot and killed by someone who objected to his union sympathies is what is believed. It's thought that either Deva Lance Hatfield or his fellow confederate leader. And crazy uncle crazy. Jim Vance murdered this McCoy for for being essentially a union sympathizer. And even though as Harmon had been ostracized from the McCoy family. You know, some sort inside just killing again was the start of the bad blood. Because even though they're not speaking to him. He is still family. Okay. So now a little bit about background rural area back with Justice as a norm clans or the norm poverty is ripe. Ignorance is rampant. Two large families. You know, they've been they've been kicking shit done kids in the tug revealing for generations one in the Kentucky side of the river. One in the West Virginia side, petty normal rivalries between the two probably have been going on for years, and then devil Anse, you know, Hatfield taking a McCoy relation to court for logging on his land, and he won. So it got some land from the McCoy's and roundabout way, then Hatfield relations rumored to have killed him. Aucoin eighteen sixty five for being a union sympathizer. Bad blood starting to develop thirteen years after the death of as Harmon McCoy the feud begins internist with of all things the theft of a hog. So let's hop today's times I've timeline right after an important word from today's I sponsor the let's get right into time's up being brought to you today. One. Again, by the whole air banjo academy the whole air banjo kademi is sponsoring the first annual tug Rivoli bluegrass festival. The entire month of August. Two thousand nineteen the festival will feature performances from legendary air banjo bluegrass group, the piney plumbers, bang, bang bang. Bring thing naming Mangan leaning, bang, bang, mailing, Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing Ling. Ding. Ding, ding. The festival will also feature performances from. Nirvana bluegrass tribute band, air never mind. Bring bring bring bang bang, bang, bang, bang bang. Manning running adding bring main rank thank thank thing. Ring bang bang. Thank thank thank thing. And then headlining festival, of course is air banjo. Triple in budding burdening didn't thank thank thank thank. Brang burning. Thank thank Bank Bank Bank. Thank dang bang Bank. 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In autumn of eighteen seventy eight Ronald McCoy leader of the McCoy's visiting Floyd Hatfield cousin Debbie lands at his farm, and they're Randall claimed he saw hog bearing the earmark of McCoy penned up with the Hatfield animals who I see what you doing Randall, notoriously hot tempered, immediately cues Floyd Hatfield of cedar one of his animals files, a formal suit for the hogs recovery. With Reverend Anderson Hatfield, the local Justice of the peace enemy who happens to be devil answers. First cousin. The matter goes to trial in an attempt to keep the verdict. Fair. Anderson had fields jury made up a six hatfields and six McCoy's. Then Bill Stanton nephew of Randall McCoy brother of Sarah Stanton, who was the wife of Ellison Hatfield, sister-in-law Deva. Lance testified that the hogging question did indeed bear Hatfield, Mark. And he said he'd per- personally personally witnessed Floyd Hatfield applying that Mark and damn conflicting family loyalties old at he didn't know which way he didn't know which way to. To to which side to be on this dock vote is supposed to marry how folk now you've got some men connected. Both families bound to piss off kin one side another his full mouth. Surprise verdict. The jury found fully healed innocent of any wrongdoing because Selkirk McCoy cousin Randall apparently gave the swing vote for innocence. Who you don't did? Now, you would trade you'll bloodline. The McCoy's were outraged the verdict subsequently ostracized Selkirk from the family. He's out now is a traitor for supporting the hatfields in this decision. And then he would just be aligned with the Hatfield clan in the future. I mean, these people were serious about man, like so clannish, you know, you fight on which side of the civil war that our families decided to fight you testify only on our behalf. Always you don't you'll find out later. You know, in the story date anybody from that aside, you do any of those things you're fucking out for life. You're out of that is still hardcore. I'll never understand like that. Like people don't like in the world. But if Roe got involved with them, I wouldn't be like you make decision now. You'll with the comments clay, and you told me for Allah people do that all the time back then. Okay. So selkirk. Yeah. He broke one of the first rule speed in clan. Testified testified against kind. In the months following the hog trail hawks witness Bill Stanton. Now he's harassed and threatened by the mccoys for testifying on behalf of Floyd. Remember, he's you know, vaguely related to the McCoy's. But there like man you testified against us. You couldn't keep your mouth shuts. Now, there's like crazy confrontations between him and various McCoy's it included gunfire. You know, he's once once in a while just riding around through the valley getting fucking shot at because you opened his mouth about a hog. But no serious harm was done. Initially. Just just gotta boy as being valuable us just showed one another. That's how settled disagreements until eventually a chance encounter between Bill Stanton. Salmon, Paris McCoy brothers of old Randall McCoy leads to a shootout ending in the serious wounding of Peres McCoy and in the murder of Bill stance. Now, he gets killed for open his mouth about the hulk you try to testify now you try to testify cast Kim from hail you feel stooge. Sam Koi stands trial for Stanton's murder and other the evidence and judicial system seem very stacked against him. It seems very obviously he did this. And also, you know, Deva lands owned brother Valentine Hatfield. Now, the judge this trouser cousin preside first cousin preside in the last trial over last row. Now, he's now his brother is presiding judge in this trial, but still Sam found not guilty by reason of self defense and some story and things decision was handed down per the explicit instructions of Deva lands to defuse tension between the two families to prevent further. Violence. You know, it's like, yes. Yes. You know? He okay. One of our conned was killed but Conde provoke him. Let's stop it. Now, let's get back to making a timber money. Wellspring eighteen eighty some forbidden hog folk dog folk romance is the feud going again ED's ED's actually a whole heap. Afa to the whole whole he fuel to the fire pike county Helder local elections at the home of Jerry Hatfield. That's bring not not sure how Jerry is related devil ends. There was fucking billion Hatfield mccoys in this tale. And you know, the the articles about all these different situations. Don't always talk about how like some random person was to the next. They had the same last name guessing his cousin of some sort. So yeah. So the host the election to the home of Jerry, Hatfield him hosting election. Shindig seems to be his only contribution to the legends fuse natives and come up again, and it was common for for the home of a wealthy person to be used as a local polling place. Elections were big social events more social than they were political as this time in this area. Women make all kinds of food and refreshments candidates would supply ample amounts of whiskey both of legal whiskey end of the moonshine variety. Both the hatfields and the mccoys were fond of making moonshine John's e Hatfield one Devlin's. The son was big moonshine maker NIA. People would come out early the men would votes and then on the fan would spend an entire day socializing with your peers on this election day, the West Virginia hatfields also come over to pike county. Kentucky can visit France drinks. Chad devil Anse himself shows up with his sons, John z and cap, and it was during the course today, the John's e an Tores local, ladies man meets rose, Anna McCoy daughter of ole random coin considered to be one of the most beautiful girls in the county. Oh shit. Got got a classic backwards Romeo and Juliet situation kicking off. Now stock crossed is John's Montague pursue an Rosanna Capulet didn't end well for Romeo, and Juliet and their families, and you can imagine will not end well here done clear, exactly what transpired between them. But after spend the day together, they disappear for the party for a good amount of time. Only returning at dusk. Some guessing they did strongly guessing they did hailers fana- say Vegas. Odds says that Hatfield penis shit car. I know Hanes with the mcco of Jonah that day. Doubt. They took off into the woods, you know, to get away from the wedding party for hours to play a secret game of chess or to do some some catfish fishing Rosanna was anxious at the face in her dad after disappeared with the Hatfield boy for hours, especially. Yeah. She's she's own wit virgin. And she may she may have tainted tainted his with Hatfield boy. So instead of return to her family home. She goes back to the hatfields goes back to West Virginia spends night there and then Jonty expresses his desire to marry Rosanna. Endeavour lands forbids it he's not having it. He's furious. And then we're gets back to rent a McCoy. He's furious as well as half the boss told him his family's Ana Randolph. Ran Lieven sent the three was other daughters to retrieve Rosanna initially. But then she defied her family's wishes remained with the hassles for several months seems she only left when it became clear that Johnny had no real intention of marrying her because his family forbid is what most stories think other historians attributed to Johnny being in the Tories playboy despite the strong objection. Both families John's e continues to court Rosanna at the house of her aunt, Betty Blankenship, mcquaid Kentucky after she returns to Kentucky, you know, and raising the McCoy's further. Also, it's possible there. There's no official documentation of this. But some historians think that Rosanna became pregnant with John's baby. A rental three of his sons, they ambush Johnny and Rosanna one night during one of their little lovers. Get togethers going to teach John z lesson Rosanna fearing that her dad is going to kill Jonny borrows, a horse from a neighbor rides to West Virginia to tell the hatfields. What's going on doesn't want her her dad to kill the man? She loves Dev lands. His son cap is brothers Ellison and Elias along with Jim Vance crazy, Jim and family, friends, Tom Chambers and Moses Christian right off to reclaim John's e and they overtake them 'cause rescue Johnny without any violence at this time. This does Mark the end of the relationship between John and Rosanna and also marks the end of Roseanne is relationship with her father Randall who now completely disowns her. Oh, E Jones aware fall out. Del John's e did not follow in refuse on name. If that will not be but swollen my love. And I'll Longo be a dog folk Makola, shall I hear more she'll speak at this. Tis. But that name that is my enemy, thou all self thou. Not to hulk folk Hatfield stock. Cross loves bang bang. Bang bang, bang, bang, middling wing, dangling thing. Despite trouble. Jonty not quite done chasing McCoy women. Don't Rosanna, but he's gonna go after another McCoy. Now this dude he ends up having a quick courtship. And then marrying Nancy McCoy who is rose and his cousin daughter of the previously murdered as a Harmon McCoy that guy that union sympathizer. And they get married on may fourteenth eighteen eighty one and so many so many constant interconnections here, and I'm gonna repeat family like how the related because if not this story gets real fucking confusing real fast Harmon again the union soldier disowned by the McCoy family. Rumored to have been killed by Jim Vance rumor driven Kilmore, the devil and himself. And now that guy's daughter is marrying, the devil is son. Now, if if you wonder why John Zee would be so foolish to be fair to him. There was not a tremendous amount of single women in the area even less that weren't closely related to him. Well, cousin love and clearly forbidden also not necessarily first choice. So so maybe he kept chasing McCoy women because there just weren't that many other options or going back to education levels in area. Maybe he really was just fucking dumb. Despite all this romantic drama things settle down following Jones wedding for little over a year. Nancy's brother Jeff is frequently crossing into us Virginia now to visit his sister and her Hatfield family for a while without issue, the hatfields spending these amount of time impound pike county with no trouble. No, big trouble. And then the relative peace will end on another election day, August, seventh eighteen eighty two this election also held at the home of a Jerry Hatfield. So I guess he I guess he reappears in the story is. His house is used to get the West Virginia hatfields again cross the river to visit their family and enjoy the festivities among the West Virginia contingent. This time is Devlin's his brother, Ellison and Elias and their cousin another Elias, bad Hatfield, bad lies, endeavour, Lance. You don't get nicknames like that for being the friendliest? Most hospitable fellas in the region owner, how many other like, you know, bad Hatfield nicknames have been lost to history. I wish I had a whole list of all of them. I'm David Ames and is my cousin bad last and this mild. This is my other Candice. My uncle crazy GM this. This is my brother here, this is evil. Ellison. This my nephew here. This is strangling Sam I'd also like to introduce you to my second. Cousin? Terrible. Timid my second cousin once remove this is rape. And Ricky don't stand too close to him. This is my brother throat punching Paul keep you on him as well. He's troublesome. He's is my third cousin twice removed. Scoop with the rush to spoon eat it in front of you pop Lago. Rob grape in between his taste Terrence. And he insists I will account emphasize enough. He insists on being addressed by his full nickname. You will say it in its entirety. Oh, he will display to you. Exactly. How he got that nickname? Yeah. Anyway, as the nickname suggests bad less had a reputation for his hot temper, bad disposition after long day, drinking this election party. One one old rannells many sons Tolbert McCoy accuses bad lies of own him and outstanding debt for a fiddle. Of course, as fiddle only thing, it would be a banjo this story, which bad lies vehemently denies argument breaks out quickly settled by bad. Lies is more even tempered brother deacon Anderson Hatfield that judge despite efforts to keep the peace arguments continue throughout the day until a passing comment from Ellison to Tolbert sparks another fight right now, we got Hatfield McCoy fight happened. A little fistfight starts off as a fistfight. And then Tolbert takes out a knife attacks within slashes with his stomach. These people are fucking animals knife to the stomach over a possible fiddle debt as about the most backwards type, squalor I've ever heard of damn you saving Hoffa. I done told you I get my fiddle Nichols. Wrapping up your Dame hall goods. I will spill you'll feel goods all over this. If you don't give them fatal Nichols. Elson fights back to of Tolbert's brothers. Join in now three on one. Ellison's being attacked by three McCoy's. I'm sure everyone just sitting around laughing watching this drink moonshine. Ellison grabs a rock to defend himself and ends up getting stabbed twenty six times twenty six times. And then it's finished off when Fara McCoy shoots him in the back farmer. Another son of old Randall so should ask relates big time. Now, allies bad lies Hatfield, grabs a gun tries to return fire shoots at McCoy, brother. But they take off into the woods. Can't can't get a shot off. Can't get an effective shot off. Then they get captured. Shortly thereafter, by two justices of the peace. Joseph and Tolbert Hatfield and constable Matthew Hatfield, so many fucking feels feels like there was about a thousand hatfields the tug valley the bullet wounds. Ellison gravely does not does not kill him right away. And he's taken to a friend's home. The western half fields notified of this. Alz Valentine wall. Hatfield Ellison's, brother. Assembles a posse to head to Kentucky the next day. Find those dog folk McCoy's exact some righteous vengeance upon them the following day. And August eighth the Hatfield pasta on the way to receives words McCoy brothers have been arrested by local authorities. So just confusing to me. Yeah. So I guess he's just as the piece where where related to them man, and I have gone over this so many times to try and separate the families. There's anyway, I guess what's important in this segment of the tail is whether or not these these these local law officers were hatfields or not local officers get him. But then some some hatfields possibly some other hatfields think like no we don't want this to go to the court. They form a posse. They get these three McCoy San's in some vigilante kind of take down. Right. And then they take them back to one of their homes. So they take take us the of them. They have them in West Virginia. They put him in an abandoned log schoolhouse. They're real under under armed guard and that night, Randall's wife, the boy's mother Serra McCoy her daughter-in-law Mary butcher arrive. Beg to see their kin Deva Lance relents the women get to spend. A fair amount of time with them co-boys, supposedly Sarah pleads with devil Anse not to kill her sons, he promises her he will return them to Kentucky soil alive, but then the following day, August, ninth devil and his brother. Ellison dies endeavor, Lance enraged, he's grieving he decides he is not going to return service boys to her not after killing his brother. She returns again to see her son. She is denied, and then the McCoy prisoners are bound and March to the tug fork where they crossed the river there returned to Kentucky soil where the hatfields some had time to some bushes. Cross the creek DO back to the West Virginia side, and then from across the creek opened fire on the bound prisoners fire. Well over fifty shots there. They're, you know, very dead. The bodies of Tolbert farmer and bud McCoy then discovered on the riverbank next day by relative. Yeah. If any of these points, I have to do a little bit wait what? There's there's a a lot of a lot of tales out there about these guys. And it's a very fusing tail even when you do it down to the truth. And yeah, takes a lot of like, wait what have to be very clear. What what am I saying now? So if you're keeping track let's do a recap because this shit is getting confusing. If you're keeping track of significant hostilities, let's go over the important points before we move forward in this tale as a in McCoy thought to have been killed by some hatfields likely by either Deva, Lance or crazy Jim Vance in eighteen sixty five and as a Harmon McCoy is Renell McCoy old Randall head of the McCoy clan. It's his brother the brother that was ostracized by the family for being a unit soldier. That's eighteen sixty five eighteen seventy eight Randall McCoy accuses Floyd Hatfield cousin of devil Anse of stealing one of his hogs Floyd found innocent. But the trial may not have been that fair. Shootout over the hog dispute. A few months later leads to Paris McCoy. Son of renovating wounded and Bill Stanton, relative of both the hatfields and the mccoys, but a man closer in community ties to that feels getting killed himself in eighteen eighty John's e Hatfield one of Devon's is sons hooks up in the woods with rose Anna McCoy one of Randall's daughters. Ran will end up his own in her over the romance eighteen eighty one Johnny Hatfield courts in Mary's rose. And as cousin Nancy McCoy daughter of the just previously mentioned as Harmon McCoy eighteen eighty two three McCoy, stab and shoot devil ends as brother. Ellison Hatfield posse forms leading to the to three of Randall's nine Suns Tolbert farmer bud McCoy getting executed in a display of Hatfield vigilante Justice. So so far it seems that random McCoy's getting the shittiest end of the feud stick by far his brother as Harmon. Likely killed by Hatfield possibly by Deva. Lance other brother Paris wounded in a gunfight. His daughter has. Okay. Yeah. My god. I have to count to keep this my head. Yes. Another Paris McCoy. Yes. Wounded minute gunfight his daughter her reputation soiled by an unmarried carnal union with the son of Deva lands. His nephew Bill Stanton killed in a shootout with hatfields three of his sons killed by vigilante posse led by devil. Lance, brother. Nephew three sons killed a daughter and niece seduced by Hatfield five dead. One wounded to virginity taken. Meanwhile, Deva Lance has lost one brother and his clan has been accused of stealing a hawk so very lopsided. Hong folk hatfields way up dog folk McCoy's through the summer of eighteen eighty two. Okay. August tenth age eighty two both Ellison Hatfield and his now dead McCoy, brother. Murderers are buried shortly thereafter, judge, George Brown of pike county Kentucky convened a grand jury to determine the identities of the killers of McCoy. Brothers as for ten days of deliberation. The jury with neither Hatfield Norma Koi on it. Returns indictments against twenty men, including Deva, Lance, his brothers wall and Elias his sons cap and Johnny a number of other well now Hatfield supporters and that and that those three murders just would keep coming up like the the legal repercussions. Keep this going for a long time because you know, they're just continually not brought to Justice despite the indictments no arrests were made in the murder of the McCoy sons in the four years afterwards. Mateen eighty to eighty six and that goes back to what we said earlier about you know, states being very reluctant to to pursue supposed- fugitives of Justice and other states, the Hatfield mccoys would occasionally take a little potshots at one another during this time. So the food still on they shoot each other from time to time. But no one's killed members of both families do continue to cross back and forth over the state line between Kentucky and West Virginia. Deva lands involvement with the feud less. Since his son capstein kind of takes the reins as the leader of the Hatfield clan. At least in terms of their conflict with McCoy's all random Koi, still bent on vengeance in the death of his sons, he hires an attorney he's related to by marriage. That man Perry Cline that guy that, you know, got acres from way back when rep and he and he hires Perry to represent the McCoy family and their quest for Justice Perry. Cline brother-in-law of the murdered Harmon McCoy Reynolds brother in equally has a personal vendetta as well against the hatfields at some point during the time period things start to go wrong in the marriage of Nancy McCoy in John's e Hatfield apparently Nancy was a notorious gossip who found the details of the feud fascinating. Yeah. Why of course, she did. She and her Sister, Mary Daniels frequently discussed the details the feud this convinced the head feels that she was a spy or the I guess both of them were spy her sister. And that they're informing. Hatfield secrets to the McCoy's not trust into women's husbands to punish them accordingly for this. This is insane cap Hatfield again when a devil and sons and Tom Wallace, a hassle support burst into Mary's home one night, hold her husband gun point. And then lash I Mary than her daughter with a cow's tail just whip 'em like a couple of mules again is people fucking savage cap. And Tom Wallace warned the women to stay at home mind their own business going forward. Neither do the story of the assault rapidly circulates throughout community. Sometime in the fall of eighteen eighty six Nancy Mary's brother, Jeff McCoy stabs, and then shoots pike county mail carrier named Fred Wolford, Jeff is Johnny hatfields. Wife's brother son of as a Harmon McCoy. Jeff flees Kentucky to Nancy Thome investor Geneva hide out from the law, and there he learns about Mary and her daughter getting whipped by cap Hatfield. Tom Wallace, Jeff is outraged. Huff Oto whip no dog folk he decided to punish Hatfield associate Tom Wallis. Maybe a little bit hesitant to to go after cap Hatfield directly will Jeff along with an accomplice named Josiah Hurley, they wait until cap is out at his house, then kidnapped Tom Wallace take him to jail in pie feel Kentucky. However, Tom Wallace manages to escape and return to caps house. Jeff chose area catch up to him. But after a short confrontation, they give up and then when cap learns about the assault on his home and Wallace being taken. He files a complaint with local Justice of the peace his relation. Who issues warrants for the arrest at points Kappa special constable, how convenient he gets become officer. You know, so that he can serve the warrants himself. So now he gets to go after McCoy somewhat legally quasi illegally. And he does arrest Jeff McCoy Josie Hurley, but then Jeff escapes, quote unquote, during transport to county jail dives into the tug fork tries to swim back to Kentucky. He does make the riverbank or then captures shoots in from across the river, and he dies. So another McCoy a nephew of all rantel has been shot and killed by a Hatfield hog folk still still way up in this food. All right in the wake of yet. Another killing Deva Lance tries to soothe the the bad blood between the two families on December twenty six eighteen eighty six day of Christmas, Devlin's writes, a letter to McCoy attorney Perry Cline, assuring him to the hatfields. We're very sorry for all the trouble. He would have prevented the violence if he could have and not surprisingly the feud continues. I feel like we've gone way past the point of an apology letter to clean everything up right now. Right. Just dearest random coop opera. Few Slee apologize for the death of another one of you'll feel the dog full kin on know that the past few years have been hard on you with us hatfields continually whooping Apollon you McCaw so so severely in so consistently sometimes I'll lopsided feud. Looks like a big strong man fatten Atanas sickly baby must be hard to think about how how it'll took three. You'll boys to bring my brother down. And then you'll boys will within killed, you know, soon full that. He'll yo Dada Roseanne is still unwitted that's a pity. She was so beautiful. And now now it be hard to find the man willing to make meal out of my son Johnny's leftovers any who saw from clan killing another one of your kin, a deepest, condolences devil. Hatfield PS. We did steal. You'll mother fucking hole in not did kill you'll brother as Haman had feels forever. Probably probably a little bit nicer than that one. But it, but it still doesn't end the feud in the spring of eighteen eighty seven Jacob and Larkin McCoy sons of as Harmon nephews of all rantel brothers to Mansi marriage. Jeff God, dang, man. I feel like I need to have one of those detective things like like in their in their war room where they have like all the different people on the wall. And then just lots of fucking string connecting everybody. Spring eights ninety seven Jacob look at McCoy sons of as a Harmon nephews of rental Brotherston, Nancy Marion Jeff cross the river into West Virginia to capture cap Hatfield and Tom Wallis for the murder of their brother. Jeff, the only managed apprehend. Tom Wallace take him to pike county jail after a week of incarceration, he escapes. Of course, people escaped all the time from Joe back. Then we've talked about a lot here in the second. And then a short time later, maybe his escape was convenient to maybe they wanted to let him out to get a vigilante Justice because a short time later, he's found dead in West Virginia. Identity is killer killers does remain unknown. But his death all like all likelihood caused by Jacob Larkin McCoy, either directly or indirectly so small possible victory. Probable victory for the McCoy dock. They didn't kill a Hatfield, but they did kill Hatfield associate in the summer of eighteen eighty seven Simon Bolivar Buckner run on the democratic ticket for governor of Kentucky McCoy family. Attorney Perry Cline reaches out to Buckner. Promises to lend him the political sport of the McCoy clan. Not insubstantial number of people in exchange for his intervention in the various cases and indictments pending against the Hatfield. So he's trying to he's still pissed about that five thousand acres, and he's trying to basically bribe the governor to we'll help you become governor Kentucky. And then you help us squash. These fucking hatfields and Buckner is receptive. The idea and then elected governor of Kentucky in August. Eighteen eighty seven. This is a win for the McCoy's the hatfields understandably concerned about this arrangement. They organized local vigilante group called the Logan county regulators to defend themselves from Kentucky aggression, the regulars right letter to Perry Klein on August twenty ninth eighty seven addressing their concerns about the state of Kentucky's possible interference in the Hatfield cases. This is a real letter this time, not my horse shit, and it does really speak to the power and just the arrogance of the hatfields and the valley, just they're bad. I guess at this time. The name starts off. The letter starts off my name is net. Hatfield, and this is another hatfill were I am unclear. Exactly how he's related to devil. Anse? Not a lot of info on him and nothing no infiltrate find the pertains to his direct relation. Probably another cousin. Get a net rights. I'm not a single individual by good many. And we do not live on toe grid. But we live all over this county. We have been told by men from you'll county that you and you'll men fix into invade this county for the purpose of taking the Hatfield, boys. And now, sir we forty nine in number at present do notify you that if you come into this county to take all bothe- any of the hatfields we will follow you to hill. Otake you'll hard, and if any of the hatfields Kyoto bothered in any way, we will charge it up to you. And you'll hod will pay the penalty we are not bothering you need all the hatfields. And as long as you keep your hands off Logan county men, we will not do anything. But if you don't keep your hands off all men there. There is not one of you will be lift in six months. There is present at this time forty nine of the men who regulated matters at this place is short time ago, and we can get as many as we need in six Alice. We have a habit of making one host loyals keep their boots on. And we have plenty of good strong rope left and all hangman tattoo, not full you. And laid it quietly away until we see what you do. We have no particular pleasure in hanging dolls. But we know you have counted the miles and mocked the tree at dog reference. Israel, by the way, dog woke I made that part up, but they were calling dogs, man. That is a very very threatening letter. Yeah. If you missed out any part of that he is in no uncertain terms. Letting the McCoy family turning fuck with us in any way, we will hang you till you are fucking dead, and we will wipe out the McCoy clan. Perry Cline Wisey does not take this letter to these orgies until the autumn of eighteen eighty seven had McCoy feud, essentially as limited to the families little intervention with authorities and either piker Logan counties. Not a lot of big advance transpiring. But then with the election of governor Buckner the few becomes embroiled in state, politics and this push the feud into its most violent period governor Buckner keeps his promise to Perry. Cline intervene in the case against the hatchets. Despite the letter the governor's. Still try to pursue some kind of Justice against the hatfields September tenth eighteen eighty seven. He makes a formal requisition to West Virginia. Governor Emmanuel Wilson, Willis Wilson. That's unfortunate. Name governor Emanuel Willis Wilson. Oh, what is Wilson? Oh wheel of the extradition of devil and nineteen others to Kentucky to answer charges of Randall Randolph. Three sons being killed way back in eighteen eighty two there, you know, these these still insistent on Justice for that on September thirtieth. Governor Wilson denies the request on the basis of missing affidavit from pike county authorities on on October thirteenth governor Buckner then sends the David west Virginia's governor Wilson is not a stupid, man. He takes his time responding to Kentucky on November twenty first. He finally does right back to to the Kentucky governor stating that he will. He will or the requisition for all the parties named except for lies Hatfield, Andrew Varney. He said neither had satisfactory satisfactorily demonstrate. That they were involved in the murders. Perry cline. Then does despite that letter that he got an earlier does have been bench warrants issued. Then on December twelve I arrest is made so Kirk McCoy that deciding juror back in that hog case is arrested is jailed the next day Klein sends an amended requisition to governor Wilson request only warrants for Deva lands. Johnny cap Daniel Whitten album McCoy. Son of soak so McCoy who's on the Hatfield side, Perry Cline urges governor Buckner to induce. The state of Kentucky to offer large monetary reward for the capture in the arrest of the West Virginia hatfields, and then Perry climates amazing. He didn't die in this tale Perry. Cline extorts money two hundred twenty five bucks. From some of the hatfields promising to use that money to bribe the Kentucky governor Buckner to withdraw. You know, the the warrants and multiple witnesses confirm this arrangement, including attorneys AJ Ocsar, James your could both in present at a meeting between Johnny and and Perry Cline, December eighteen eighty seven. When the deal was made despite learning of Klein's double-dealing Kentucky governor Buckner determined to end the feud December eighteen eighty seven he addresses, the state legislature in Kentucky condemning the feuds condemning the feud assists and the violence. He says the law abiding character of the people of Kentucky estimated by others in a great measure, not from the general disposition of its citizens to obey the law. Ause, but from the violent conduct of comparatively a few lawler's individuals if from neglect or inefficiency, we failed to repress this lawlessness bring the offenders to Justice, we have no right to complain to the false estimation in which we held by people of other states. So you know, what he's saying here is, you know, I'm sick of Kentucky being looked at a bunch of fucking backwoods hillbillies as an entire states because the actions of this one family feud with other family and then in private he probably said Daniel's inferno hillbillies. I wish the grid. Value would spend wide open enough to unlatch a polar to hail safe and pull both how folk and dog folk into its tuna flames. The Hatfield see governor Bucknor's headlines hardline stance me on the feud as both a personal threat. Also as an insult, I guess they also see evidence that the McCoy's are using political actions in the state to pursue them justly despite their warnings. And then later the hatfields hold a council. And decide the only way to end their persecution was to eliminate the head of the snake. Eliminate random coy and all the members of his family who might testify against them. If they were brought to trial and pike, and they were kidding about. That letter earlier Perry fails to take it seriously Perry Cline, the McCoy's failed seriously. And they're like, all right. You guys aren't gonna leave us alone. We're gonna fuck come after you now like really come after you all of the men, including Jim Vance cap, Johnny tomb chambers. All everybody agrees to the plan to go after the McCoy, except possibly Deva Lancy may or may not have. Agreed. He was he was sick. At the time uses bad hells as an excuse not to take part in their plan and leadership falls to Jim Vance many things that didn't want what's about to happen to happen. At least not in the way, it's going to. So it's so it's own its own now. So now in the most cold blooded event of the feud so far Jim Vance along with cap. Johnny bobbly Elliott Hatfield son of Ellison tomb chambers. Ellison mounts who is the the bastard son of Deva Lance's brother who was stabbed and shot earlier in the story. Charles, Gillespie, French dock Ellis. They launch a midnight attack on the McCoy household New Year's day eighteen eighty eight so have a New Year's McCullough the hatfields just own been surrounded. You'll for years just hold onto a ship Natal Yukon, the Voltaire ex you caught in a Brown off the half Fieldstone under the cover of darkness, the hatfill surround the house demand the McCoy meant surrender ole Randall in his son Calvin refused. They take up defensive positions inside the house against orders to hold fire. Johnny start shoot into the house in the ensuing. Gunbattle crazy, Jim Vance, Tom Chambers. Set fire to the house of one Randall McCoy's young daughters, Allah fair shot. As she opened the kitchen door to try to get out of a burning house, by the way, if you have seen the history channel hatha McCoy mini series drama, which is excellent is historically accurate for the most part. She was not a young child as she was portrayed in that in that docu series. She sears. She was she's twenty nine possibly even thirty have sources say one have said the other. So she gets shot coming out of the burn house. And then her mother Sarah McCoy goes to try to aid her dying daughter. And then Jim Vance strikes her repeatedly with the butt of his rifle despite her injuries. She continues to try to help Allah fair and then Jonty. The dude who wanted to be her son-in-law while back in this tale pistol whips the fucking shit out of her to a point. She will never mentally recover, man. Johnny pistol whipping the mother of the woman he dated for months supposedly wanted to pistol up in the aunt of his current wife. The fire spreads Calvin McCoy tries to make a run for the some corn. He gets shot. Wanna rental sons? Oh, Randall he's able to escape into the woods at this point, the Hatfield party realizes not only had they failed at their plan to to kill Randall. They'd made their situation far worse it escalated in shit that they probably in a way, they probably not imagine both Calvin Allah, fair dead. So two more two more Randall McCoy's kids five of its kids. Now have been killed this feud Sarah, his wife gravely wounded with the broken arm, broken hip and crushed skull. Yeah. And she would be brain damaged for the rest of her life. Most of the property was also destroyed forcing Randall to move in with his remaining family in the pike Ville, home of Perry Cline there. The formerly disowned daughter Rosanna goes over and takes care of her beaten mother. God man, Randall is getting the worst of this view. Holy shit. Hatfields of now. Killed four of sons one of his daughters. Kill the pair of his nephews beat his wife almost death burned. His fucking house down killed his brother years back. Meanwhile, the only blood kin devil Anse has lost his brother Ellison this few to this point, you know, the midnight attack on the McCoy farm. This is this is the event of first drew national attention to the feud newspapers all over the region running sensationalized headlines about the event feud in general, January eighteen eighty eight Frank Phillips pike county sheriff's deputy official agent of governor Buckner in the Hatfield matter. Ally of the McCoy's assembles a party of twenty seven men to go into West Virginia. And and chase down the hatfields taking the hatfields by surprise Phillips and his posse do capture cap, and they actually kill Jim Vance shooting him in the stomach and then the head so now devil answers lost a second blood kin doubtful. We payback on them. Half oak. Now, kill Dylan's, bro. The AIn he's throughout the first part of January Philipson his men would occasionally cross into West Virginia for more short rates hoping to repeat this excess and taking cap and killing Jim Vance. But then on January nineteenth Philipson his men find themselves at a much bigger conflict, and they expect it in. What would become known as the battle on grapevine creek Phillips eight. Eighteen of his men many of them. Mccoy's find themselves in a fucking battle almost like a military battle with thirteen. Hatfield men who themselves carried a warrant for the arrest for the murders of Jim Vance. So see like this keeps happening. You know? West Virginia's like all right. All right. We didn't like they killed people in our land that we didn't. Okay. You know? So we don't recognize him as laments. And now, you guys it'd be law in so each side has warrants for the other side each side will you know, think that they had the law on their side when they're fighting. This is just crazy during the battler several deaths on each side, none of them directly related to either Deva lands Hatfield random Koi Phillips did capture. A number Hatfield partisans though in the battle, including wall Hatfield, Tom Chambers. Allies Mitchell, Andrew Varney LS McCoy son of Selkirk, Moses, Christian Sam, Mayon, doc, mayhem and pliant. Mayhem in the aftermath of the battle of grapevine creek. West Virginia offers rewards for the capture of Phillips and twenty one members of his posse. You know, the states considering them to be acting legally in Logan county. So this. It's really gotten big now man, this is this is invive in bringing in law men from each side, you know, is causing a battle. You know, you got West Virginia offering rewards for Kentucky law makers. You know, you got, you know, Kentucky offering awards for what are century? Now. A West Virginia law. I would be a back and forth back and forth. Man. I get I get why the stories captured so many people's imagination for so long. I think most of us have had a dispute with a neighbor or very least had a neighbor we really don't care for. But now imagine to kind of under personalizes a little bit. Imagine you have a huge family. You're super close with and that your entire family hates a neighbor and their family, and then basically your family declares war on this neighboring family. And now magin there say like a city county or state line, dividing your properties, and that local law enforcement actually porch. You waging war on your neighbor? And then that local areas law enforcement's support that neighbor war what you back on you got. I mean, I think about this neighbor, Chuck I had that I'd screaming watch a screaming match with before he moved out. Like what if just may instead of yelling him? I just fuck and shot at him. And then didn't get in trouble at least not right away. You know, even though everybody knows about it. And then he shoots back of me. And then I have my dad and some and some cousins come over and just raise fucking house. Have a shootout says house on fire kill couple of relation beat his wife have to death. This really happened with these people they essentially wage war and fellow citizens in the battle rages wherever decade the battle of grapevine creek finally ended the marriage of Johnny hatfill, Nancy McCoy can't believe last as long. Vanc- then returns returned home to her family in Kentucky next and actually marries pike county sheriff's deputy Frank Phillips the man who've been pursuing all the hatfields in West Virginia. This is such a fucking soap opera Mary's the man hunting, her husband and husband's family Mary's the man who sought Justice for the hatfields who'd kill numerous members of her family. How crazy is this shit? Mary's a man whose father and or great uncle or yes, she had married. Skews me the man whose father and or great uncle were rumored to have killed her dad's. She had married the man previously. Johnny who participated in the execution of several of her first cousins remained married to him. You know, when when his family killed her brother remained married to him when he pissed whipped her aunt's participated in in this shootout killed a few more of a first cousins. I can only imagine marital arguments. They had I can't I can't take you continually moping about two cabin Nance. You can't keep dwelling on the path. So let's have a picnic. Enjoy a Sunday down by the river. And well, we talk about John's. Well, we talk about which in my kin you'll crazy ass, dad. Plan. Don't kill a mix. We talk about what my aunt did to deserve your pistol whipping, maybe we could discuss what felt like to burn down my family's home. A what my brother said before you'll kin killed him who killed my daddy. You'll father or you'll ankle all all right? That's enough. I hear you you make a lot of good points. May we shouldn't talk about another. Maybe she just qualification something along those lines. Yeah. How fuck do. They ever get married and stay married around this time Johnny's former lover Roseanna McCoy, she dies of some unknown illness, probably a broken soul oul random Aucoin his wife Sarah lose yet another child. He's people are cursed. Newspapers around the region published accounts of this new battle draw more attention to the feud. The wheeling Intelligencer, declares if if one half of the stories of brutality and motor are true. The case would seem to want the authorities of both states in taking hold in ending the trouble, even if it is necessary to call the state troops into action. So a lot of people getting very sick of this late January pike county judge to buy swagger county attorney Lee Ferguson, personally, visit Kentucky governor Buckner to request. That state troops are indeed deployed to protect by county. But Buckner refuses to do so suggesting instead that local citizen reassemble a militia deal situation. Yeah. Because that's been working out real well, the same time West Virginia delegation from Logan county, but Titians West Virginia governor Wilson. To either provide troops for the county's defense provide them with arms to defend themselves. Both Logan pike county. Officials believed that the situation the tug valley has now gone beyond a mere family blood feud and requires greater intervention on the part of the state and the neither state is willing to provide that the events of January eight aggravates relationship between the governors of West Virginia and Kentucky. Especially in the wake of grapevine creek. A governor Wilson, you know, he resists complying with Kentucky's request for extradition of the hatfields. Instead, he suggested Bo states, send independent agents into Logan pike counties to try to get to the truth of the matter then worked together to suppress violence in the tug valley while this joint investigation is a good idea in theory. It does nothing to resolve the conflict. Bows, investors, come to the same conclusion that the recent spate of violence all the violence that occurs. Mostly as direct result of those indictments against the hatfields for the McCoy sons murder eighteen eighty two five years after the fact the subsequent killing student subsequent kidnapping men, West Virginia by Phillips in his posse. Have incited the violence have continued the violence the results of the join investigation marked the end of cooperation between West Virginia Kentucky and opens a new chapter in the feud one what will take one that will take place primarily in the courts rather than an entire valley. And all although most of the violence is over regarding. By the end of January eighteen eighty eight the legal maneuvering legal dramas just begin and we're gonna get into legal drama right afterward. From today's final sponsor times. Today is brought to you by chicken. 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And also took about five minutes for me, not kidding to set the Eero system up, and I don't I don't think I even used a bunch of profanity which is kind of my norm when setting up technical things so easy so fast. So stop worrying about WI fi upgrade Eero get one hundred dollars off the Eero base unit and two beacons package and a year off euro. Plus when you visit Eero dot com slash time suck and to the code time suck at checkout. That's e r o dot com slash. Time suck code time. Suck at checkout. Now, let's talk about how the preceding years of Hatfield and McCoy violence, but mostly violence. Let's be honest pits Kentucky and West Virginia further against each other takes both states all the way to these prima court February of eighty eight recognizing the governor Buckner not going to budge on his desire to see the Hatfield extradited governor Wilson decides to begin legal proceedings against the state of Kentucky. First Wilson's agent to governor Buckner demanding that the release demanding excuse me, the release of nine prisoner hatfields asserting their arrests at the hands of Phillips acting as the state agent had been legal Buckner refuses to requests. So then Wilson files a writs of habeas corpus on behalf of the Hatfield prisoners on February nineteen eighty eight. The cases presented the US court. Louisville Kentucky the main argument west Virginia's case was Phillips and his crew actions agents of the state of Kentucky had acted illegally when they went into West Virginia to arrest. The hatfields. And this Philipson men were acting as agents on behalf of the state of Kentucky. And because the constitution protects all its citizens against unlawful seizure. The case had become a federal issue used as Gibson lawyer who represented West Virginia in the hatfields in these proceedings also challenges the legitimacy of the warrant since the state of Kentucky had waited five years to pursue the hatfields and only did. So after McCoy attorney Perry Cline, essentially bribed the governor to get involved. The state of Kentucky represented by j Proctor Knott. A former governor refutes the argument that this was a federal case on several points. And also argues that Wilson couldn't file writs of habeas corpus for the prisoners as a state agent or a third party. The judge ultimately found in favor of West Virginia and ordered that all nine prisoner had fields appear in his court on February twentieth for habeas corpus hearing the press Kentucky outraged by this decision. Those in West Virginia. Feel Justice has been done the here and begins on February twenty fifth and after debate by both. Sides court recess until Monday, February twenty seventh during the hearing Kentucky argues that a criminal could not try to escape prosecution by claiming illegality or irregularity of his rest officer Phillips had been acting as a private individual rather than estate agent when he wrested the hatfields and the state was responsible for Phyllis men's actions during the course of the arrest was for genu- argues that the arrest is legal because the prisoners have been held in custody for twelve hours before the legal execution of their warrants and that Phillips had claimed the thorny as a state agent at the time of the arrest a bunch of legal maneuverings March third. The judge delivers his decision he feels that. The case is essentially an argument between the two states and refers the case up to the US supreme court harmful versus doll folk mega sway from the tug river valley old away to the supreme court of the US out. Yeah. Wingding then bang bang. Dang, dang dang thing. Mending mainly main West Virginia governor Wilson appeals a decision on March fifth. The judge GRANDE. Appeal which passes to the US circuit court on April fifth here used as Gibson the lawyer who represented West Virginia in the hatfields again argues that the rest of the hatfields in West Virginia constituted, unlawful seizure, steady of Kentucky Turner form of Kentucky. Governor j Proctor Knott knowledge that the arrests were unlawful but claims that it did matter because they were unlawfully rested in Kentucky and the judge in. The appeals case reaffirmed the decision to send the trout to the US supreme court. So now, April thirteenth eighteen eighty eight lawyers for both West Virginia and Kentucky arrive in Washington DC to present their arguments for the case the arguments begin unable twenty third with Virginia, aka the hatfields lawyer Gibson. Stick is original point the whole series of events from caption, West Virginia through arrested incarceration, Kentucky, continuous constitutes gives me single continuous act by the agents on behalf of the state of Kentucky, Kentucky's attorney AK. The McCoy's attorney not declared that had never been that. It had never been shoot me an issue between the two states, but. Rather between private individuals? And if it had been a state issue West Virginia should have filed US supreme court directly instead of going to the first the district court. He's Christ general opinion was that this was correct. And the West Virginia had made a procedural error old supreme court rules that while the initial arrest and induction the hatfields in West Virginia was on constitutional. There were no grounds for charging Kentucky with wrongdoing to the state of West Virginia. So now Kentucky wins the case. And hatfields are now on the run get you through the hot Fokion. Now, get the feds are gonna be chasing you swan. So now several hatfields are being searched look for to be put on trial for the New Year's attack on the random McCoy's home in the spring of eighteen eighty eight West Virginia thirties take legal measures their own against the men responsible. For the arrests indicting Frank Phillips that Debbie sheriff or. Yeah. Indicting excuse me. Frank fields deputy sheriff John Yates pike county and assorted McCoy's for the murder of Jim Vance. Additionally, the offer substantial rewards for the rest of Philips and other men McCoy men on the run now as well. So. A lot of legal maneuvering for really the same results. You still have Hatfield people being chased by authorities on behalf of Kentucky. And you still have McCoy people now being chased by thorns on behalf of West Virginia by the summer of eighteen eighty eight the rewards offered for the hatfields and Kentucky and the McCoy's in West Virginia had totaled to about eight thousand dollars, which draws the attention of various kinds of detectives from all over the country Pinkerton and others descended on the tug valley with the hopes to get rich by capturing some of these people and collect rewards. On both sides. These these new outliers these new, you know. Detector met with disdain sometimes outright hostility. Most of the wanted had McCoy seek refuge in the mountains. Just hide out until things cool down letting their women and kids at home. You know, let them mind the properties Deva, Lance. He himself moves to remote narrow valley nearest West Virginia. Sorry, I'm saying that name wrong. Two small unincorporated area and Logan county that no one outside of the area gives us single fuck about no one has published any type of pronunciation guide. So if you like actually that's pronounced stare you and seven people care about that. Anyway, devil Anse hides there to protect himself from these new outsiders heave and set up a kind of fortress for his clan. Should they need to flee into the woods to defend themselves? He stocks cabin with water food fuel arms and munition in case of a prolonged siege. Nobody will just just building a backwoods hillbilly castle to hide out and shoot it mccoys or any law Thursday, come to give me kind of goof Mandevu, he truly did that nickname guy was tough shit. Not going to go down without a fight the feud itself does quiet down as guys are not captured this despite a ceasefire the newspapers, they try to, you know, keep the feud Goma publishing stories. Delighting the rest of the nation with details. Unflattering details of Appalachian life and culture, which I get you know, it's kind of exactly what I've done, and I stay a little bit occasionally members of each clan or interviewed the hatfields maintained that they just want nothing, but peace, you know, the McCoy's maintain they just want. Some Justice finally on August twenty fourth eight hundred eighty eight hatfields including cap, Johnny Robert Elliott, Hatfield Elliot's Ellison mounts, French Ellis, Charles Lepe, Gillespie Thomas chambers are indicted for the murder of alad fair McCoy ole Randall's young daughter during the infamous New Year's Eve attack. All those years back on McCoy homestead in the fall of h ninety eight Charles gloves. He's the first man arrested for the attack captured in Virginia on September fifteenth Ellison mounts that illegitimate son of Ellison Hatfield, nephew devil, often called cotton top mounts is arrested before the end of October. Also in the fall of eighteen eighty nine nine Hatfield prisoners end up going on trial for. Eighteen eighty two murders of the McCoy Suns at the end of August aged eighty nine so this those two events the retribution killings of the three sons in the attack on the cabin. They just haven't died still be because no one on the happy side has been punished. Before the trial begins. Ellison cotton top mounts confesses to the role his role in these murders provides testimony recounting the events of August, eighteen eighty two. He name's Dave lands. John z cap Bill. Tom Hatfield, Alex Messner, Tom Chambers is shooters describes the murder of Jeff McCoy as told him by cap. The prosecution presents additional nineteen witnesses, including eight more hatfields. The jury fines wall Hatfield brother of Deva lands. Guilty of murder recommends a sense of life imprisonment while appeals verdict and on September fifth eighteen eighty nine his sense suspended for sixty days while several other defendants are tried Hadfield associate Alex measure, doc, Mayon wall, hatfill son-in-law pliant may and other son-in-law tried simultaneously all found guilty all given licenses. None of these people end up serving as long as maybe were supposed to bastard, Ellison mounts described historical accounts as being dimwitted cotton top mounts. Yeah, basically is intellectually disabled confesses again had confessed that role of Alpher McCoy entered guilty plea, and he is actually sends to death. So sadly, the one person involved in this food who really just mentally is the least responsible this intellectually disabled person is the one sentenced to death. He's held in pike county jail until his execution. The rest of the convicted hatfields transported to Lexington on September fifth all appealed or verdicts, but on November ninth eighty nine the Kentucky court of appeals up holds these convictions and sentences although mounts execution originally scheduled for December third it was postponed until February eighteenth. Authorities Kentucky fully expect to have failed to mount a rescue attempt. But it doesn't happen in the days leading up to the execution large crowds began together and pike Ville to witness the hanging, despite the fact that Publix Kyushu to Kentucky this time for his part. Mount seems resigned to his fate refusing to talk eat receive word from local pastor smoke a cigar refused to speak on the morning, February eighteenth, his death warrant is read before before public executions were legal officials had surrounded the site with the wooden fence or shoot me because they were legal. However, they place the fence at the base of a hill. So that people to sit in the Hilton just look down over the fence actually put a scaffold up there. So people can view the proceedings when asked if he had any final words mount said, he was ready to die. But at the final moment, he did cry out. They made me do it. The hatfields made me do it. And then the public execution of cotton top does seem to finish the feud. They've just hung hanged. I guess sorry. They've just hanged and intellectually disabled man, this low point seems to wake everybody up to the craziness of what all has happened doesn't bring anybody back West Virginia withdraws the rewards for the capture of the McCoy's although charges against the digital hatfields. Do remain outstanding Kentucky such as the charge of murder against devil. Anse for that vigilante execution of those three McCoy boys little is ever done about it on February twenty fourth eighteen ninety one word that the feud is overcome from a member of the Hatfield family in the form of a letter to the press cap at field or cap half. Hield? One of Devon's sons writes, this letters to the Wayne County new sane. I ask your valuable paper for these few lines. A general amnesty has been declared in the famous Hatfield McCoy feud, and I wish to say something of the old in the new do not wish to keep the old few to laugh, and I suppose that everybody locked myself. Is tied of the names of Hatfield McCoy and the border wolf air in Tom of peace. The war spirit in me has abated in. Sincerely, rejoice at the prospect of peace. I've devoted my life to arms we have undergone a fearful loss of noble lives invaluable poverty, valuable property in the struggle. We being like Adam not the first transgresses now propose to rest in a spirit of peace. That's kind of a funny line goes near at the end, though, we'd be like Adam not the first transgressors 'cause they always do that with these apologies in this. Well, how about it? But just record. It was it was those other people's fault regional economics may have also had a hand in the end of the feud by eighteen nineties the region of Appalachia of the brink of an industrial boom, coal number companies are expressing an interest in developing the area. However, these companies had been put off by this air of lawlessness in the region, and this provided further incentive for state officials on both sides them to clean up the racks. Let's let's violence start making some real money. The new. Governor of West Virginia. William a mccorkell saw industry is a way to prevent further violence saying this discord in the mountains was never ending because no new laugh on. No new blood was brought into dispel it. A railway destroys a feud manufacturer area. I know kind of fucking word Manufactory. There's a real word Manufactory absolutely wipes out neighborhood animosity and public improvements. Bring in new conditions. I guess it is meant Manufactory. Bring up any spell red lines and everybody lives happily ever after not quite despite the mutual desire both families in their communities to end, the violence things did not settle down entirely in the valley in ninety the hatfields still had fire in their veins. Check this shit outs man after all this. They're just you know, what was a half field. Always a half hield November eighteen ninety six cap Hatfield in stepson. Joe glenn? Visit the nearby town of mate, Juan West Virginia for winter elections, they encounter John Rutherford. A man who kept shared a little grudge with the two men opened fire soon as I saw one another is Christ's Rutherford is brother-in-law Henderson chambers and Rutherford's nephew all gunned down capping, Glenn or captured tried for murder in April eighteen ninety seven and then cap is found guilty of involuntary manslaughter, and Glenn please the same charge. Both receive one your senses, they they shoot down three dudes over a grudge in broad daylight. And. Out you. All right. You get a year since we don't care for that was civilized now. And then campus caves from jail just three months later, clearly feels still have some in the obviously still corrupt tug river valley political Justice systems. Yeah. And then after a scaping cap resettles in the area somehow doesn't go back to jail, right? Just can't g supposed to be in jail for killing those few men. Nah. I don't I don't. I don't call them. Nothing. Okay. I'll our at my momma stike saw about that camp. I'm mostly when thinking about someone else recently killing several men in broad daylight. I guess I'll leave you be. The following year. Eighteen ninety eight John's e is finally arrested all this time later for his role in the McCoy brothers execution. Eighty two sixteen years later. And also for the his participation in the New Year's day McCoy homestead massacre eighteen eighty eight ten years before he's captured by a posse led by local law men, named Humphrey dock Ellis dock. It must I guess is. There's so many of the same name. That's also it's fucking terribly confused about the trying to figure out tale. So many people have the same God damn name. 'cause there was a guy named dock Ellis who participated in the New Year's day McCoy homes at massacre. I believe this is a different kill us. So. Yeah. So so John's is convicted for participating in both killings. But then he'll soon be free because that's what happened back then also eighteen ninety another son of Deva lands. Johnny's younger brother Elias, m hatfields commits another murder allies too young to be involved in most of the major feud events or even to remember them in eighteen ninety. He was only twenty one years old intelligent had a head for business like his dad like pappy who's well liked like his daddy. Like pappy had a head for business. He wasn't well light like his pappy. 'cause I don't think I don't think you'd call him. We'll light of he also had a hair trigger temper and his brother Johnny is captured all those years later. He swears vengeance on this dock Ella's fella who may be couldn't find anything. But it may be the same guy that did participate in that New Year's day, which makes all the more ridiculous. And that stuff would happen back. Then one guy would be part of a posse involving killing somebody else then years later that guy would somehow become a lawman we'd be like go after capturing and arresting dudes who are part of the. Same fucking posse. He was part of on July fourth h ninety eight at a local independence day celebration dock Ellis, speak speaking or scheduled to speak publicly during the days events that morning, he boards, the train draped in American flags and independence day decorations in the tiny town of Yager West Virginia with intention of heading towards Wilmington or Williamson for the festive occasion along the track. The train makes scheduled whistle-stop at gray yards. Approximately twenty miles east Williamson across the river from place called Skinner's, the same time, the train belching clouds esteem team slows to a stop graveyards allies just happens to be crossing the river has the picket heading to pick up mail to post office, Coleman, Hatfield historian and grandson of Deva, Lance Hatfield later documents events in his own writing, stating the dock Ellis consummate politician intends to step off the locomotive and shake hands with pastures who've preparing to boat as doc Ella steps down to a rough wooden slats between two passenger coaches. He just happens to come face to face with last Hatfield. Who's older standing on the boardwalk talking to travelers? Hello, alas, doc Mona's. He tries to start step the show at temple Hatfield. Hello, doc, allies replies with a wide grin. He places his hand undock shoulder stopping him in mid stride. So doc, you think you can come take me cross Kentucky, easy, as you did my brother after a few tents seconds alas. Decides was not the time or place to get revenge and turns away mumbling you son of a bitch. And he starts speaking with another travel in friend Ajay peril. When all hell breaks loose, doc. Ella shouts. I'll show you who's a son of a bitch as he lunged for the doorway of the passenger grabbed his rifle leveling added last seen was about to take place or seen. What was about to take place peril through his armful pushing allies back which just as doc squeeze the trigger and the Winchester exploded in gunfire travels on the boardwalk dove for cover scattering as gunsmoke build the shot. Just misses Alaska's head and he instinctively pivots while. Job and his Colt. Single action from his belt and returns fire. The shot was definitely next round. Hit a middle cuff link on docks reaced in the forty five bullet ricocheted upward breaking dock Ellis. His neck blood spotted from the entrance wound. Doc, Phil would dit on July twelfth allies turned himself into the Williamson courthouse in his arrested and then jailed on murder charges relating to death of Humphrey. Daca. Plead is self defense before license court case can come to the conclusion to its conclusion his brother cap, second son of devil intercedes. Decides gotta help his baby brother break at a jail and escaped possible. Life in prison or the hangman's noose in the middle of the night on August eighteenth while lies weights and the small cell cap slips through the backstreets Williamson on horseback. Leads large buckskin pony up behind him, according to family lore. Kep carried heavy Riggins with him. And once he arrived the jail he secured one end of a heavy rope cable to a saddle horn. Tie the other to the iron bars covering the jailhouse window, and then just he Spurs his horse in the force Yankee iron bars free, along some chunks of masonry around the window casing, and then, you know, allies pushes some more of your sides Jimmy's out to the opening in the two just fucking takeoff. They flee the mountain state that night bounced around various nearby states for about a year. Then just come home. Well, when allies eventually returns, the mountain state, he's immediately arrested and later convicted for the murder of doc allies, he sent to the West Virginia penitentiary mounds Ville, but as quickly paroled by George W Atkinson governor, the governor of the state in a man with ties to the hatfields tug Ravelli. Of course, Jon also gets off easy. Lieutenant governor of Kentucky. William Pryor thorn, request his request for a pardon. Shortly thereafter, the hatfields still have a little bit of Poland in Kentucky as well. Cap. Ends up becoming a lawyer shortly after that setting up a practice in Logan county, which then would pass onto his son Coleman and his daughter. I lean in the line. An I lean skews me little trivia, it would become the first female attorney, Logan county. I wonder if he used that jailbreak story to win over any clients when you hire kept half, you you oughta get off or you broke out is a half way. The first decades of the twentieth century, the Hatfield mccoys largely steer clear of trouble. They steer clear from a labor rights that would trouble Mingo and Logan counties from nineteen ninety one to nineteen twenty one with the exception of one big part of family lore. When mate Juan chief of police Sydney to gun. Sid Hatfield, it's his nickname. So they still got some fire. He's actually adopted hatfill but half out on the less. He's at the center of the mate Juan massacre, violent confrontation between miners and guards of the Baldwin felts coal mines which nine men are killed had in twenty others. Tried for murder who knows exactly how many Hatfield himself shot before eventually found not guilty and released which doesn't set well certain people later on trial for conspiracy charges nine hundred twenty one to gun sid Hatfield gunned down himself killed on. The McDowell county West Virginia courthouse steps retribution killing most of the other Hatfield mccoys did well and the changing landscape of the tug valley taking on. Professional careers, in fact, in nineteen thirteen Henry jury Hatfield nephew Deva lands elected governor of West Virginia, passing significant social legislation working to settle many of the labor disputes plaguing the region at the time of his election. Seventy three year old Deva lands is still alive. And well, so he gets to see this Kenna his elected governor at living through all the fucking crazy. Feuding Deva lands. This time was a prosperous farmer with money invested in the local coal and timber traits. Randall McCoy still alive in nineteen thirteen not doing as well as devil ans-. No, McCoy's are really kicking ass and state politics or crushing it and local colour or timber either to make ends meet the now eighty seven zero random Koi still working still making money, but working as a ferry operator in pike Ville, he dies on March twenty eighth. Nineteen fourteen. Succumbing to burn injuries. He received after fallen into his own fire fell to a fire. He'd made cooking his homestead tease after all that. He doesn't get to die peaceful death burned up his own fire. Probably trying to cook himself some shitty meal if a long day work in the ferry the guy was cursed his wife Sarah had died twenty four years earlier room to died in the mental hospital. Never fully recovered from that pistol whipping Jones put on her Deva lands died of pneumonia. Seven years later on January six nineteen twenty one. His funeral was the largest ever held in Logan county, his death attracted national media attention, supposedly his last words, were I one fucking one. How come out top dog fo? Yeah. Yeah. Fuck rental McCaw. He didn't phone no file pushed him into the flames. I made with my own mind. I'm the devil, goddamn devil, the devil. Don't die, and I will haunt them cost forever. That's probably not true. But it definitely takes us out of today's time suck time. Good job soldier made it back there. Ooh, that was exhausting. That was an exhausting suck. Hope it got all the the names and places. Right. I rewrote this edited. This talk you to work off of so many times this past week so many relations so many people to keep track of this story. But essentially, I mean, you get the gist just to families not letting shit die for so long. They suck. It really did make me truly truly think about the consequences of just not letting shit slight. Like, I've written a lot of stand up over the years. A lot of stand up comedy essentially about vengeance. Spent? You violent thoughts what I'd like to do to somebody to teach them a lesson for some minor infraction or perceived insults and today reflect on this food. I just think about how maybe that's not always the best way to live. I thought about this this moment I shared on a plane with a stranger a couple years ago long pet peeve of mine about how people are getting off a plane. They don't unders- like some people don't seem to give a shit about. Just etiquette etiquette breaches and general obviously fire me up. But this one in particular is when you know, if you travel, and you don't know this. It's very simple. You let the people out in the row in front of you before you get out. What you don't do is just push your way down the aisle pass people trying to get out of there. Just fucking route. I don't know how people do not understand that. And it's driven me crazy over the years, and sometimes I will just openly like all right, man. That's cool. Just what can do what you wanna do? Don't worry about anybody else in the plane like grouchy moment. I'll just openly say shits once I threw my arm out of the islands. Like, no, that's not how this works. You wait for the people in front of you. And you know, maybe that's not that's not the best way to do things. And then I was bitching about this one time. Openly bitching about someone who just pushed past me and some other people. I I was sitting in first class I fly so much. I get upgrade sometimes can can sweet if you fly a crazy amount every once in a while. Yeah. You get these upgrades for free. And this guy was probably somebody who paid his first class. He was dressed as someone who's probably had a lot of money in my mind, at least seem very successful common poised, and I asked him if he ever just kind of snapped in these people, and and he just kinda looked at me like I was saying, and he goes, no, it's not worth it got too much to lose. And then just didn't talk to any more, and I feel like an idiot. And I just thought you know, what the fuck am. I doing, you know, maybe maybe saying something isn't that big of a deal with maybe I shouldn't do my arm out in the aisle. Because then I was thinking like I thought about what he meant you know, like what you can lose from just overreacting. What if I throw my arm out, and then that causes somebody to push past my arm, and I pushed them like escalate into something physical. And then while it's being sorted out. What if I banned from flying that does that can't happen? That's would seriously fuck my. Career up. What if I I can't exactly drive from lane Idaho to Buffalo New York in time to also have my family here in run this podcast and make it to my next. It's just not feasible to drive the way my kind of two routing ghosts. Or what if we took out to get him further? What if a fight breaks out what if I intentionally actually? Unintentionally intensity end up hurting somebody on a flight becomes it's federal thing. What if I go to fuck prison, you know, lose my career lose a lot of money all because I just couldn't let shit slide. How stupid, you know? It's tough, man. The one hand you don't want to let the world walk all over you. You know, just be a doormat for everybody. But on the other, you know, you gotta think of joy you want to overreact and throw your life away needlessly to escalate a situation, very scary place. A lot of lessons to be learned from this Bill McCoy feud. You know, when did you just cut your losses? Windy, you just walk away. What Fran McCoy had went to the authorities after three sons kill with hatfill posse. I mean, the only reason that posse went after them is because you know, during some stupid fight at an election. His sons had stabbed the shit, and then shot Devlin's brother in cold blood. They weren't innocent. But Randall couldn't let it go. He wanted what he thought was Justice. And it just kept escalating you'll end up getting fucking house burn. Down ended up getting his wife pistol whipped into a mental institution. What's that saying cooler heads, prevail? I think there is some truth to that. It's a lesson. I need to remind myself often or is a lesson that when you're facing a ruthless appoint opponent like Deva lands. Do you need to be more ruthless and things like what if rather than go into your thirties? What a friend of a storm devil devil ends house with his own posse and burn that to the ground. Or would that have just escalated the same way probably is less than to know your limits, you know, should should random choice. Should he have learned that devil Anse was just a superior opponent? That's what it seems like to me dig into the story trying to piss off the many McCoy some who I'm sure looseness podcast, but you know, maybe devil out of rannells league. He had more men more guns more ruthless. Maybe should recognize. He was outmanned. He was out mean, I don't know. I think the lesson you can take away the very least to think about your actions thinking about the consequences of your actions. What reactions could they cause what chain of events? Could. They kick off are the consequences of those. Potential reactions worth the actions, you're choosing to take think before you act. Always a always probably good thing to do. Yeah. Maybe maybe there's some important lesson. Just missing let's find out by checking in with today's idiots of the internet. User fast. The latest news published a video called Hatfield mccoys what really happened on July twelve two thousand thirteen two hundred thirteen thousand seven hundred seventy views hundred seventy five comments the description reads, the nineteenth century rivalry between two Westview new clans has become the most famous family feud in American history. Correspondent Rita braver spoke with the senators from both sides to help navigate the stork battles countless MS and tall tales to find the truth. Yeah. Because there is so many rumors online about stuff, Dr madcap are rights. I have a feeling in today's world McCoy family would all be hooked on meth. Crappy. Yep. Probably possible at the very least, I think actually Metheb use would have been kinder to the McCoy family. The devil lands was. More of an observation than a lesson drawn from his tail, but but an interesting one user Joshua wit posts, a great captain obvious comment typing fucking love when people do this types, the hatfields lived in West Virginia and the mccoys lived in Kentucky. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. Josh. Thank you for writing that in the compensation. Thank you writing for with the narrator just continuously says in the video, why do people do that? That's like watching a trailer for mission impossible road nation and then commenting Tom Cruise Tom Cruise is in this movie or even better this movie called mission impossible rogue nation better. Still under this YouTube trailer for mission impossible rogue nation comedy. I just watched the trailer for mission impossible rogue nation. It's on YouTube. Yeah. Yeah. User lost nine four one three three types. Good blessed. The confederation may it rise again, especially idiotic. Of course, someone wanting to see the confederate states rise again is someone fucking terrible spelling got only has one oh dip shit. User, berry BART's wants us all to know, he enjoyed this video riding thought the video was good. It's nice berry that he decided to write that lukewarm compliment like how you also made it clear that the video might not be good. You know, you just think it is. Yeah. I thought thought the video was good. You not throwing a hard facts and trying to push people to art is your opinion. Nothing more. You seem sweet berry. Probably not a riveting conversationalist, but sweet user Remmy J posts related or not. You are not them. You are what you are. But if the main points in this post, and I have a feeling that Romy J would think she was a lot smarter than Barry Barnes if she met him. But I think she'd be wrong, she seems like one of those pseudo-philosophers thinking they're thrown out profound shit, but it's just like a fucking series of like, okay. I guess I guess you needed to write that. And then bury bar is back back in the comments. Few comes down the thread typing, very love the history of this family. Oh berry. We have a lot of nice people in your life that the love you inspired the dumb shit. You must constantly say, what do you think of dinner bear? I thought this meal was good Sheila. I very love your tuna casserole. Use a Riley has me second guessing how ancestry works posting. My great grandmother was a direct descendant of the hatfields doesn't that mean? If your great grandmother is a direct descendant of family within aren't you fucking direct descendant this? This is really like I've thought way too much about this. I had to look up the meaning of direct to send after reading Riley's comics. I wait a minute. It's stupid or is this or is he right? Here's definition a direct descendant is someone who can trace their lineage by child relationships all the way back to a desired ancestor, non direct to send it has to go through a cousin or by marriage or some other non child relationship in order to find the desired ancestor. So I would think the way I the way I'm looking at it unless you're opted. You are the direct descendant of your cram, right? I mean, your grandma gave birth to either your father or mother and your father or mother, married. Someone produced very what? Ever have relations somebody and produced you so you would be the direct descendant of anyone that you ran parent is direct ended up. I don't know. I still feel confused whatever Riley has may be contagious. I'm sorry. If I just infected you now swell. Brooklyn McCoy wrote. This just I was tired. When I read this it really fucking rotated me. She wrote this made me cry. But I forgive them fucking stop. It Brooklyn stop you cried you cried like literally cried and felt the need to to publicly forgive. What for how you've been wronged because ancestors of yours died with your last name McCoy, I'm guessing over one hundred years before you were born you forgive people who kill them who also died in all likelihood over one hundred years before you report the feud was over in eighteen ninety one hundred twenty eight years ago. I just it's always annoyed me when people try to glommed onto tragedy that I don't feel. They have any ownership in right like like nine eleven terrible tragedy. But there was people who I feel like went way out of their way to get a tension for themselves when they weren't real related to anybody who died they weren't related to anybody who is related to somebody who died didn't know anybody who. Known anybody who knew somebody that died, and it just felt like like look at me. Look, how sad I am look at how much of a caring person. I am. Yeah. I just never be close friends with somebody that melodramatic. What's what's going on Brooklyn? Why are you crying? Why are you set? I am. So. That. I just I read I just read about the black plague. Very tree in some of my grandparents died horrible deaths every day. They your your grandparents died in the black plague. My great, great, great, great grey, laid fifty more Greg Graham. Yeah. I'm gonna grab my shit now and fucking leave and never talk to you yet have a nice life drama Queen eight percent of the posts on this thread are of someone leading the rest of the commenters know that they are either related to the Hatfield mccoys. Just a lot of comments of I'm Hatfield, I'm McCoy, which is why I think Chris official wins the section of today of the internet today when they post simply I'm not related played Chris if you see it in the in the threat, it's so great. It's like twenty comments just like, I'm really to this. And finally someone's like, I'm not related. I don't think I'm related either. And that's enough for today's. It's the internet. Okay. So turns out and learn much and say, it's the internet examination. Maybe we should had paisley back in today. Maybe he could have added his insight. I did learn that, you know, I do really think it's ridiculous. When you when you weep over shit that happened to people who you never knew who died long ago. Maybe I'm maybe I'm wrong that way, maybe I'm just a cold blooded monster. It's possible. I have been accused many times over the course of my life of not being empathetic enough to people through. I did joke longtime ago about how I could never be a counselor. You know, which was supposed to be pass. Just because I'm not. I can't entertain people's, you know, winding like some people can't it comes across some people. Complain of their problems comes across to me like shut the fuck up suck it up Bill chuckles, and since I can't think of any additional lessons. Let's look back again on the ones we did. Learn today have some fun with some silly new info in today's top five takeaways. Time away. Number one, the two instigators of this feud were Deva lands Hatfield, and Randall McCoy patriarchs of the Hatfield mccoys families and ironically, both would famous feud. They started number two random coil it the long life of misery. He lived at the age of eighty eight south five kids die in the feud. Saw his wife beaten nearly to death Deva Lance head field to me is undeniably, the winner of this feud. Yes, his nephew would hang his brother murdered and other relatives would be sent to prison, but none of Suns with die in the feud eleven of thirteen kids would outlive him. Even though he lived to be eighty one ten years before he died, two kids Thirty-three-year-old allies. Thirty one year old Troy would die in a gunfight, of course, in the gummy West Virginia nine hundred eleven killing the man shooting both of them over a disagreement about whom got over who got to sell liquor to whom Gumri the half brothers. Leisurely? Started the fight fire. Still fire running those Hatfield hog folk veins number three. The feud began in earnest over accusations of hog thefts and eighteen seventy eight and ended with the hanging of an intellectually disabled man in eighteen ninety and in between hog theft. And what seems like a very ill advised hanging. A lot of other people died. Number four, number four is Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing, ding, ding, ding, but Dane, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Number five new info in nineteen seventy nine the hatfields reunited there feud with ROY family, the two families joint for an entire week of special taping of the popular game show family feud hot folk dog fo for cash prizes, and how great is this pig kept onstage during the games that whoever the winner. You know, got got to have the pig as well. The McCoy family won the week long series three games to while the hatfields one more money eleven thousand two hundred seventy dollars to the McCoy's eight thousand four hundred fifty nine dollars decision was made to augment the McCoy family winnings to eleven thousand two hundred seventy three one dollar more. So than say had won the most games, and if Deva Lance was still alive he would have been slided enough by this incident to to kill at least two more mccoys. Bye. Feels Amoco's have been sucked. Hope it did. It justice. Yeah. Mandela Lance not a man to be trifled with whole shit man and random Koi, not a guy who could let shit slide. But. Yeah, deadlines man, he's saying he seemed scary some of the serial killers that we've sucked on the show. Thank you. Again. The tire entire time suck team the high priests of the harmony village camp Jesse guardian of grammar dober- out sick this week. Hope you feel better. Jesse Reverend Dr Joe paisley times, high priest Dugan the guys at Biddle danger brain spaces merch wizards axes apparel, Queen of the suck. Lindsey cummins. Speaking of access. Yeah. Again, we get that twenty five percent off sale store starting cyber Monday lean to the following Sunday. Hope you take advantage of that huge. Thanks to first time suck researcher. Devon Stewart for kicking some ask Devon, I hope I did Justice your research. We get more help from Devon on at least one more suck going forward. Hopefully, more after that, man. You crushed it in an Email with Lindsay Devon wrote. I thought this was fun to share. I talked to my Hatfield friend about any good. Stories while he didn't have any. He did share. What I think is a pretty interesting piece of information. Apparently, his Hatfield ancestors were only distant relations to the Appalachian hatfields and didn't even live in the region at the time the feud occurred, despite this his grandmother who is only that kind of Hatfield by marriage still takes the relation very seriously and still insists that the hatfields were in the right in the dispute, I found really funny and really telling giving the ferocity of clan loyalties, and how they propelled the feud Yam and feud continues in some people's minds, I guess at least an argumentative form. How folks still not taking from Dr? Uh-huh. Thanks everyone for for enjoying the time. So private cult curious Facebook group, and and those finding the the discord group, obviously on dischord linked to both places in today's episode description getting their mingled with some like minded meet sags don't start no feuds time because like a fun school than those are the places like a fun recess hail number. Hale number. Next up topic wise, he space selected Pinkerton detective agency nineteenth century American history continues. Maybe more Banjul. I dunno might not might not might be Pinkerton, America's first -tective. Chase down a fair amount of wild west outlaws law dogs, the Pickton's actually inspire the term private eye. The Pinkerton agency I made his name in the late eighteen fifties. For hunt down outlaws, providing private security for the new railroad business as the company's profile grew conic logo, a large unblinking eye, accompanied by the slogan. We never sleep gave rise to the term private eye nickname for detectives eighteen fifty six more trivia twenty three year old widow Kate Warne walked into Pinkerton Chicago's office requested jobs detective founder, Allan Pinkerton was hesitant to hire a female investigator, but gave in after Warren convinced that she could quote worm out secrets in many places to which it was impossible for male. Detectives to gain access true to her word worn proved to be an expert working undercover. One. Bust in thief, by cozying up to his wife and convincing her to real reveal the location of the lute during another case. You gotta suspect to feed her crucial information by disguising herself as fortuneteller. That's awesome. Pinkerton would later worn is one of the best investigators he'd ever hired following her death in eighteen sixty eight he even had her buried in his family plot. So you want a little more than just trivia, you want some jokes on story. Listen next week or watch on YouTube time now for time updates. Times. All right, once I I date new World War. One invoked from World War. One of says time sucker Sam little who writes, dear master, sucker and night errant of Nimrod. My name is Sam beneficier commie long before time. So I can like many others. I was thrilled. When you started it and loved it since thank you very much. I listen to my job as letter carrier for USPS. And I'm pretty sure the people think I'm insane on account of me burst out laughing every ten minutes or so hail Nimrod. Now. I just wanna say waiting for the World War One for a long time, and you have so the crushed it. That's nice. I definitely gave it. My all. Short miss lotta stuff. But especially interested in an important part of history that often gets overlooked, and you really did a Justice the hope you and the rest of the time community learned a lot from it. If I may I just wanted to share some other interesting details as to why the US finally entered the war, and I did not know this stuff censor. Thank you for sharing. This many people think that was the sinking of the let's wanna. I don't have input phonetic there. I think I kinda got that. Right. That big ship that finally drove us to it. But as you know that happened in may nineteen fifteen and it would be almost two years before the US declared war on Germany. It is also important note that the US was sending weapons and munitions to Britain via civilian ships. Germany knew this and did warn the US to see sending supplies to ease. Tensions Germany began to restrict the amount of you use the war dragged on they were preparing to restore unrestricted submarine warfare, which all but confirmed US intervention, and it was the Zimmermann telegram that really drove the nail it. I'm sure he came across as well propulsion, your research German foreign actually did not the not the specific Zimmerman. Telegraph German Foreign Minister, Arthur Zimmermann, attempted to strike a deal with Mexico vowing to reestablish the territories loss to them in the Mexican American war. The message was intercepted by English. Codebreakers shared with their allies. Mexico also rejected the terms on may first nineteen seventeen. It was released to the American public and one month later the US declare. War. Here comes cheeseburgers and freedom, you Jerry, bastards fascinating stuff and like with most pivotal moments in history. You gotta ask yourself. What if what if the US decided to remain neutral until the end what would rush today, if Lenin and the Bolsheviks did not get support needed to take control of the provisional democratic government? Would there be more or less suburban Mexican family restaurants, if Mexico did declare war who knows thank you so much for listening? Thanks again for this great podcast Duma bestest for the suck at work, my friends and family was bummed of mister show in providence. But I hope YoM OB back, y'all. Road novel be. Sam Sam I didn't know about the telegram new the gist about the submarine stuff, and at any government, US obvious. He was getting obviously getting pissed at German u boats were were thinking some of their people supply ships some of their merchants supply ships going out there. Now, a scary ghost story of date coming in from Phil foster love, these this is from that in the rain demon allergist suck. Hello master soccer space, fill in the real world beefsteak on discord. And I have a short ghost story few that all these other ones manage to drag. Short ghost or few that all these other ones manage to drag out of place in my mind, where I hide scary shits when I was around twelve of my sister was ten she kept telling us that she would see multiple all black shadow people her room at night. Yeah. You know, I freaked out shout people. She was say that they would not notice her at all. But seemed like it was some kind of social party than one time. She told me about something that is currently making my skin crawl one night. She saw one of them Ben down to one of the family cats, the shadow person and reached out to pet it and the cat reacted the shadow persons stroke, the cat, and if you've ever petted a cat from head to tail the always have their butts raise up, and she said that happened. I have no reason to doubt it, but but man freaky thinking shadow people might have been petting our pets. Also, you'd better invite Joe motherfucking paisley and on the internet until your podcast together starts, softly crying a corner, and you'll have to live without having making a fellow bearded man or you have to live with having made Filiberto men cry. Suck suck master Ville fos Bank, you fill man, you're crying today. You're crying out here in this, man. We'll have well paisley pop back in for the two internet until we can get our podcast up. Hilarious Email from Kate Rittenhouse K wrote. Dear great time Selker. My name is catering house. I'm a nineteen year old college student trying to become an electrician mega for you. I tell you. I was listening to your Woody bit. With my headphones in during my business break room, or with my headphones in my business break room while I was listening to my boss. The corporate boss was in the break them having a meeting with my boss, and some of the higher ups were another employee friend of mine comes in and rip the headphones outta my phone normally the podcast with pause. But this time it did not. So would he your what he played out loud in front of my boss and the higher ups? My boss looked at me with anger, and I was terrified that. I was going to get fired. When one of the higher ups looked at me like I was crazy. And then from said his big deal. Shocked I clocked into work. I was so shocked I clocked into work and Clinton got to my post. We're gonna ever twenty minutes. And then my boss called me into his office. I was scared was gonna lose my job. And then I went into his office. And my boss is smiling. He said the man who laughs local merchant of sorts that they've been trying to get a deal with and it playing your podcast got help. Get us the deal Abbass was so happy. He gave me a raise. As you. What the podcast was said time saw can week later. My boss talking about Shakeel. Are you fucking serious? I mean, you don't you don't say you're kidding in this message. I want this to be true so badly, and I'm I'm assuming it is you say, so thank you master time. Soaker Cade Rittenhouse that is fucking amazing. A lot. I love how this is spreading. I I have heard other messages from people we've got people have like, you know, some kid in the classroom or teacher, maybe saying that he's a sharing something from time in the classroom like at high school classroom, then in some of the his saying stuff like we all needed that or hail Nimrod, and that kinda shit crazy now another World War One update, a sweet some sweet marine info coming in hot from time. John house, dear suckiest of all suckers. Thanks for being awesome. A bit of years since crazy with capital F of long wanted to see and was surely sad, the Massachusetts show had to be canceled. Yes. Sorry about that as well. But I we do have I'm ninety nine percents. Sure of Boston date on the books. I just ask Lindsey about that today. And I'm yes, I'm ninety nine point nine percent positive. I'm going back to Boston in the first half of the earned for a couple nights instead of just one then you wrote peer pressure intended. Yeah. Okay. I listen to your World War One sock. And I had a few things. I thought you'd find interesting. I Pol the last two paragraphs preach. Oh, yeah. And I did like cut those out just because it was a little bit longer. There's more info. And yeah, the the two paragraphs were just referencing where to get information and John did share some really good things. Yes. And that maybe the the one American news is maybe they don't always share the most unbiased information. So. Yeah. Is there such a thing with man trying to find info? You know, you find what you think is unbiased might be unbiased someone else will think it's by still it's just it's so hard, but John did share at the end of this. And I didn't I'm not gonna read it now, but he did share like the AP has their own app. So rather than get like AP articles through other newspapers, you can go directly to the source. I mean, they are what America's biggest media to Shen. I do think it's very least most time they really get things. Right. And I have enjoyed that. So thank you for adding that to my research repertoire, okay? Anyway, the battle of Belew would is a noted battle in Marine Corps history. Some consider the battle the broad initial claims the marines and developed mythos surrounding them that we know of today during that offensive. We lost more marines in that battle than an all or wars before combined still the marines pushed through and captured ground be hand to hand combat incredible sharp shooting during that offensive to noted things happen. I Dan Dailey two time medal of honor recipient and outstanding suck candidate was in charge of unit was pinned down by intense fire rather than retreat. Or stay put he famously yelled come on you son of a bitches. No, come on you sons of bitches. Do you want to live forever? Bad ass, man. Second story emerged in the battle of belly. Would that said the marines were so fearsome with their sharp shooting, the Germans nickname them devils dogs? Do remember come across that another Succoth thing while some claim this was actually American propaganda? I prefer to think that the as the marines of World War One commenced bad assery, the spirit of the original devil dog bojangles imbued them with right? Just power praise jangle. He's back there. The day before Veterans Day is November ten also known as the Marine Corps birthday. I did know that. But yeah, thanks for reminding me to share that the most famous of marine generals are in World War. One was General John a the June who right after World War One decreed that the marines would forever. Celebrate their birthday on November tenth with birthday message cake the celebration is carried out today regardless of presence in combat. I won't bore you with the whole details of the ceremony. But no that ten November tenth is a glorious day and has got some ties we're one another famous. Marina one was Smedley Butler, aka the would be king of America. He was a Major General who to medal of honors during his career for general bad assery and his talked of in the same conversational tone as chesty puller. He also wrote the book and coined the phrase wars a racket anyway during the great depression, the US during the great depression, skews me US veterans of World War One wanted advance payment of bonds. They were promised to them the bond. Whoever couldn't be paid until the nineteen forties. Dude economics mumbo jumbo that. Of course, didn't matter to disabled vet struggling with PTSD, poverty, and this led to the creation of the bonus. Army that marched on Washington to demand payment when the bonus army formed it was potentially powerful fighting force. Someone wanted to use it that way as these were all hardened fighters of war veterans years later, a bunch of industrials actually coined decided that they wanted to perform a military coup on the American government to stall a fascist government and recruited Smedley Butler to manipulate and lead. What was likely the bonus army to overthrow the government bother told them that they could go fuck themselves reported everything to. Congress congress not investigate much given that the industrials for some of the most powerful men in America. But this is now known as the business plot and was time that we were dangerously close to a very bad situation. I may have some details wrong. But this would be great suck. 'cause it's actual conspiracy that actually happened. Love the podcast year, Semper fi bojangles. John house. Thank you, John. And yeah, I didn't share anything. I got a lot of details out there to people, and I appreciate you write in and. Yeah. And finding good media is important because not all not all news fake, news metex still a lot of investigative journalist true seekers out there. You don't wanna go to place. We just can't trust. Anybody wrestling out from Haith major. A new world order wrassling update who says he says all you ham and Egger Jubran. Motherfucker kidding sucked. Him as prime. I hate to correct you. But I feel I must in the new world order suck. You stated at the wrestling NWF faction in world class wrestling, aka world wrestling federation, when an actual fact they were part of world championship wrestling, which was purchased by the world Federal Way by purchased by the world. Wrestling federation owner, Vince McMahon, definitely a fucking space lizard, luminary wacko in two thousand world class championship. Wrestling completely different wrestling company. The former pro wrestler in me wanted you to know. Yeah. You know, I think I feel like I just misspoke in that the way it was kind of written. A lot of articles was it was tied to the WWF and the w CW, but I probably did sports rate as they were the same entity. But yes, yes, they were not thinking, he's writes, thank you for allowing us to smell with the suck is cooking each and every week, and I'll. See your candy ass. Next time, you're Portland, Oregon for no Roe barb wire. Bed of nails barbed wire. Board rain some tax time bomb death match. Please don't think you're sending that in. Now, another World War One update from Canadian or some Canadian veteran loves us me coming in from Canadian sucker, Melissa king, Melissa writes. Hi master sucker. Just finished a World War One episode as conduct from the true, north strong and free. I couldn't help. But notice the distinct lack of Canadians mentioned the victory at Vimy ridge was only one example of the epic bad assery that was Canada and the great war. The Canadian war effort was ultimately what led to Canada bean recognized as a state and the signing of the armistice was the first time that Canada sign a treaty on its own behalf. I did not know that thank you for sharing that the storm trooping. You mentioned is what gained Canadians the nickname of stormtroopers because even though even through piss soaked rags, we were bad ass. I love worshipping at the feet of Nimrod Halen run while cleaning my igloo. Well, cleaning my igloo and taking my dog's let it out much lovey, Melissa Kate. Thank you most. I love katie's man. Yeah. I kind of get back up to Canada getting I gotta figure some shit out with Canadian government. And I gotta get back up there. Now. Shoutout requests from Connor Forbes says, hey, there suck master November. The as with McGraw friends birthday was also the day the campfire started in northern California. She and her family lost everything sees like so many others in the communities of paradise and Michaela suffice to say she had a pretty shitty birthday. Yeah. I bet and I thought maybe reached out to you and asking to have her shouted out on the south would be a cool way to make up for it. We're both faithful suckers space lizards met you at Sacramento back in may her name is Madison, and she would be. She would absolutely melt if you mentioned her realize, it's probably a long shot. Why the hell not sincerely faithless basis or Connor Forbes Connor thank you riding in man. And yes, Madison. Happy birthday sorry that you had such a terrible terrible. Terrible last month. And hope things are getting better. Hope insurances fixing stuff hoping to good spot. Now, hope you safe and then last message. Another. Shoutout, actually. Yeah. Yeah. This is last batch sorry last night another shadow coming in from Ken. Hey, Dan quick. No from Grand Rapids. Michigan. I was able to catch your show Dr grins last weekend. Friday, PM wife, and I were supposed to be there was friends of ours. But the wife of my friend wasn't feeling well, so she was at the hospital getting tested friend was at the show, but then had to leave before you took stage because he found out his wife needed to have her gallbladder removed immediately. Everything went well through surgery, and she is on the men. I love the case you by the way that she went to the hospital for possible surgery. Like you baby. I'm gonna see you after the fuck is show guys. He comes. Man. Thank you. I'm not one of those first shot. I have never emailed anyone for something like this. But I know my friend would think it's cool to get some love from you sending prayers good wishes to his wife, Amy that she'll be back up and feeling better. My friend's name is Abe Abe, Amy, and he is a car carrying space. And I like like, I said huge fan of yours. Thanks, the time Dan Gratiot in Grand Rapids. Thanks closed with one of my favorite bits jury duty the world needs a little more chicken. Joe Bob playboy Bach. Ken. Well, thanks for sending that in can. And a man. Thank you so much, dude. Yeah. Huge. Thanks. So dedicated the you are still coming even though you your wife wasn't feeling good. I'm glad she's feeling better. Now, Amy how fucking dare you get sick during my Tim show, but you ever fucking do that again. But other than that. I think you're great. But don't ever get sick. You guys just in general it really chaps my ass when you guys get sick. And when you don't feel good when things don't go, well and your life. I don't care for it. I like it when time suckers are only kicking. S so knock it off have everything be great always. Okay. That's that's what I'm the happiest when you were all also the happiest but seriously, I hope you're feeling better soon. Amy, and thanks to everyone who sends him ashes, man. You know, if you don't hear your shout outs because we don't care promise. Sometimes we get a lot of them coming in. Sometimes it's random timing of when they come in compared to when I'm prep in the show. But we appreciate all the messages. Thanks for being the best meets acts on our for. Sure. There is no real debate is definitely around planet. Love you guys. Thanks time. We all talk to you next week time suckers, don't get dragged into an over a decade long murderous feud this week hope again, you had a great thanksgiving this past week and keep on. on second. Thing thing thing. Thing main mainly Ning maintaining, the ain't meaning meaning Joe ping name. They know only low name they wanna live. Yeah. Yeah.

Randall McCoy West Virginia Kentucky McCoy San hatfields Rivoli Randall tug valley Harmon McCoy Randall McCoy Devlin Hatfield Ellison Hatfield McCoy Reverend Anderson Hatfield Nancy Hatfield Deva Floyd Hatfield Tolbert McCoy Paris McCoy murder Virginia Ephraim Nancy Hatfield
SYSK Selects: What Was the Deal With the Hatfields and McCoys?

Stuff You Should Know

48:25 min | 2 d ago

SYSK Selects: What Was the Deal With the Hatfields and McCoys?

"He finally decided to learn how to skate. So you order the essentials. Every ice skater needs a pair of blades. A new helmet and a good set of me pads and you used your bank of america. Cash rewards credit card choosing to earn three percent cashback on online shopping rewards that you put towards the cost of an essential piece of posts skating recovery a heating pad visit bank of america dot com slash more rewarding to apply now copy twenty twenty bank of america corporation america. Are you listening any award. Winning host and journalist carlos watson it may not feel like it. But we've been here before and it's up to us to lead the way. We sending america the carlos watson. Show the la times. Says this is what true discussions should look like. If we're to do things got to have boll conversation. good morning. America says this show is changing the conversation before ever gonna reset america. The time is now the carlos watson show on the iheartradio app or wherever. Hey everybody it's me josh. And for this week's s. y. s. k. selects a chosen are classic episode on the classic feud between the classic families the hatfields and mccoys to one of the more interesting stories of american history. And it's way more nuts than you even thought and i don't know about you though Is wanna to put a little bugging your every time. I hear the name. Jim vanson this episode. I always want to follow it in my mind with vance refrigeration. See if that happens to you. Now that i've said that Hope you enjoy this one. It's a classic as a said so enjoy away. Welcome to step. You should know a production of. I heart radio. How stuff works. Hey and welcome to the podcast. I'm josh clark. Charles w chuck bryant staring at me right now to make me uncomfortable. Jerry's over there can feel her eyes burning in my head. Those stuff you should. Would you like me look at my ear That's always so weird. Try someone's like looking. Are you doing it right now. Like right at your hair or bible really interesting trauma other here. Oh yeah that's that's the stuff the right. Sorry that you're left with my left right. I remember that the watch this chuck after seven years. Can you see that can wiggle ears. Independently drives me crazy so you sit around and do it promptly china. Good husband chuck yes. We have a bit of an announcement. Here yeah you stirred yes. Yeah we are in the room with either a hatfield mccoy. Jerry doesn't know which is related to. She just knows it. She's related to one of them. Yeah like literally right before we press record by the way. I'm related to one of these families. I'm just not sure which right an a family member told her but she cousin tyler who was. I don't know. I think that's what she said cousin. I get the impression from jerry story though. That sort of like glazed over. And that's why she doesn't know but she does carry a six shooter on her hip. And that explains that it says mccoy on the barrel. Maybe but does that mean that. It's a bullet from the mccoy's or for the mccoy's monastery remains you know good point so we are talking about the hatfields and mccoys for those of you. Who don't live in the united states. You probably have heard of the hatfield mccoys to pretty legendary feud. Yeah right we've heard of some of your history. Uk sure. Australia matthew flinders job for you. Yeah so hopefully. You've heard of the hatfields and mccoys if nothing else. There was a big mini series. A few years ago on television. Yeah with kevin costner and bill paxton and apparently it was really dramatized. Yes as fictionalized systematized and yeah little not quite fully accurate but at least at least they brought attention to the feud because it needs agreed. So the hatfield mccoys is a family feud so much so that in nineteen seventy nine. The hatfield mccoys were on the tv show. Family feud apparently for a full week. From what i saw in and i read that legend has it that it didn't actually inspired the tv show. But i didn't get good verification on that there have been other family. Feuds right i but none are as famous as the hatfield mccoys. Although at the time there were more famous family feuds but the hatfield mccoys just lived up to another level yes because all of the murder. Yeah there was a lot of murder mountain folk versus mountain folk Families that had been intermarried and worked for one another yeah had lived together for decades if not longer alongside in this little area along the sandy river. I believe the big sandy river in something. That's called the tug river valley and on one side. Mostly that hatfields lived on the west virginia side in logan county and across the river on the other side in kentucky. The mccoy's lived in pike county. And that's how it was for days gone by and they They were not new to the united states. So i guess it wasn't united states then was it. Yeah ok sure. Take the eighteen seventies. I was way off then but They came to america many many years before that Apparently the hatfields were some of the very first to come to the new world From northern england and the mccoys are obviously from germany. While the hatfields were originally the heathfield in england that sounds way more british. Yeah but you know how you do. You come over to america and you dumb it down a little. I know heath. Ledger changed his name to hat ledger when he got here didn't he. All right p. mccoy's come from scotland. Of course you could probably figure that out airland before they came to the new world And the first known mccoy was john mccoy in america. When was that Seventeen thirty two from belfast. Ireland so did they move directly to the tug river area. Is that where they settled. Now the mccoy's first settled in maryland at where he was a prominent landowner. And i think the hatfields. I moved to tug valley in eighteen twenty and the mccoy's in eighteen. O two okay with twelve kids. So they've been like really. These families had grown up living in in working with each other was. Yeah not just these two families in the area there are plenty of other families but like they were neighbors coworkers boss and employee there were. They were Husbands and wives they intermarried. You know what. I mean like they were. They were living together for decades. Yes i think the two That originally settled at tug fork where the actual parents of the two main protagonists or antagonists. I guess they were both yeah. Who pro in an so. They the The story our story really kinda begins roundabout the the civil war. This area of the tug river valley was mostly confederate and both the hatfield mccoys were confederate sympathizers if not outright confederate soldiers the antagonistic protagonists. The patriarch of the hatfield family. When the story begins his name was devil. Anse hatfield right. Yeah that was. His nickname is real. Name was william anderson hatfield but deva lance cool name. Yeah and i saw a couple of different explanations for whereas nicknamed came from but my favorite woman that his mother said he was so mean. The devil himself was scared of him. He i saw one that said he was Six feet of devil in one hundred eighty pounds of hell. They had stupid sayings back then. It doesn't quite add up especially in the backwoods of kentucky and west virginia. You know they just said stuff they just made up names as we'll see throughout this whole episode but devil anse himself was a He was from what i saw. He was described as somebody who took life by the horns right. Sure he was very much a self made man He got he became a pretty wealthy timber merchant over the years but he was It was a violent man and he was a while he had some violent tendencies for sure. Yeah in you know if you want to trace back. The reason for the hatfield mccoy feud there. Isn't i think from everything i read. There isn't one single thing. It's often blamed on the pig deal which will hear about coming up that seems to be the one that historians point to the most these days though. Yeah but as sort of a convenient way of telling the story because like what what better way to kick off a few than like with the stolen pig. Right it definitely. There were other problems or issues between these families before then right yeah but the point is there are a lot of different things going on and one of them was like you said was Devil anse made a lot more money than mccoy as as a timber guy. So on the other side of the river in the kentucky side. Pike county kentucky. There were the mccoys. And at the time that devil anse was the patriarch or the hatfield clan. A man named randall mccoy. All randall was the head of the mccoy. Clan crossed the river in kentucky right. Yeah i just get the sense that he had his life sort of smaller businesses and was always a little bit envious of the larger timber. Business across very much so yeah. He was a the way that i saw him. Described was If lance is a man who took life by the horns all raynal was somebody who got hooked by lights horns and she was very bitter about his lot in life. Gotcha his father. I saw was described as didn't much care for work. Did me didn't leave it as kids. Anything yeah so. His son had to be a self made man but he was a self made man who never really made himself. He married a woman named sarah and sarah's father died and left them some land and he was able to homestead on that. So that's how he was able to establish himself was through his wife's inheritance of her father's land but it was enough to set him up. They were fine. They weren't prosperous but they weren't like just completely poverty stricken like randall had grown up right but just across the river in this other family that he had to deal with and work with In kind of see and interact with was a man who he you know had made himself indefinitely. Randall was bitter about that idea in the comparison between himself in lance. Yeah and i think some of the mccoy's even worked for some of the hatfields which is always going to be a little tense when you feel like maybe that feeling of superiority comes over one family. Because you're working for me right you know. Yeah so there's definitely like you're saying tension right and you can point to maybe these guys coming into their own as the head of the family when the tension really started. Yeah for many years. Historians pointed to a specific incident as the source of the family feud But that's since been abandoned so like we said. The civil war is about the time when this story really starts earnest. And most of the tug river valley was confederate. Deva lance impossibly. Randall mccoy were part of What the logan wildcats which was a militia but during the civil war they were in actual like army unit of the confederate army. And that's all we're devil. Anse was even the leader in one place. But i didn't get that verified a bunch either so so very least was in the brigade right and i get the impression that if he wasn't a leader he was a de facto leader. Because that was just as type of personality donates to nobody bright. You enter to him right. That was a great devil. Anse so i think. The leader of the logan wildcats is another character. Who will come later in. His name is Jim vance yeah. So jim vance He was not a very great guy. From what i can understand. But i'll let him paint his own picture. Okay how's he coming in. He will in a little bit instead. We're going to focus on a guy named as harm mccoy and this guy i don't have a beat on. He decided in in complete contrast of the place where he grew up. He was going to join the yankee union army. Yeah yeah but he broke his leg in and Left the service after. I think a year While he was in service his commanding officer in the union army ordered him to fight. Devil anse because there was a rumors that he was a confederate spy. Oh yeah so harmon fights. Devil anse loses the fight and i didn't get a sense on what kind of fight it was. It was like a gun battle or whether he literally just like spit on his boot in like took a swing. I'm not sure. I don't know if that was even in the miniseries So they get in a fight. He loses and then The the the union troops went after devil and at that point Which is really what caused a lot of the early issues And then later on harmed shot a friend of devil anse while stealing his horse so in turn he killed harman's commanding officer in the union army. Okay there's a lot of bad blood. The guy was like literally general bill. France was peeing off his porch. Like i do Endeavor lance shot him in cold blood. I hope that does not happen to you. I really hope so too. That'd be bad way to go gives you pause. You know so the after the war after as the mccoy came back home i did not realize the tensions were already that high had the impression that it was just because he fought for the union. I didn't know he had been made directly target. Deva land well devil anson. The logan wildcats basically sent As a message saying watch self because we're coming for you. And he very wisely went off and lived in a cave for a while he hit out. And so with this guy. You're like why did he go far for the union was in abolitionists. Now he had a slave and the slave kept him alive by bringing him food and stuff. So i have no idea why he went and fought for the union. It's weird the fact that he did though that his own relatives his own mccoy's including randall. His brother Really were just kind of like. Yeah the logan wildcats are out to get you and you brought this on yourself. So we don't really feel for you and they didn't apparently make much of a problem or much They didn't take issue with the logan. Wildcats tracked him down in the cave and kill them while he was actually coming home when they kill them. Oh was i think he finally thought like shirley after all this time they've forgotten about this troglodyte bite dight troglodyte. Yeah so he was walking home to see his family that you hadn't seen in years and jim vance shot him. That's how long is the cave Well that might have been part of the war as well said a few years man alive so well actually mandate as a harmon mccoy is killed by the logan wildcats. Apparently at first everybody thought it was devil answered it but he turned out to have been bedridden at the time so he had an alibi and they think instead that it was jim vance who led it and probably killed as doubles uncle. Okay and strong ally jerk. Jim vance was so as a harman's dead. The first shot has been fired in the family feud so thought the historians for years. And then i guess after interviewing actual hatfields and mccoys they realized that no actually the mccoy's were like he brought it on himself. Yeah that's that we made peace with this and no charges were brought in the murder of as a mccoy. Yeah i saw one article that described it as a a murder agreement which apparently used to have that. Like blood in blood out. And everyone's like all right even steven okay. So done yeah. The first death has occurred in the hatfield mccoy feud but it has nothing to do with the hatfield mccoys. Technically yes that seems like a pretty good time to take a break. Don't you agreed sir. josh yes. We're doers. that's right. We're makers dare we say shakers well. We're definitely dreamers. And that's why we use squarespace as our online home to tell everyone about her live shows. We've always used their great templates in that. Great great website to tell people where we're going to perform next. Yeah when we eventually go back out into the world you bet. We're going alert everybody on s. y. s. k. Live our squarespace built website. And it's lucky that we don't have anything to sell chuck because we would be selling like gangbusters was square spaces e commerce tools. That's right. they got marketing tools. Got analytics ease of use. If i can actually do this thing. Anybody can guess anybody. Can't you can build your own website. It's true with help from squarespace. So head on over to squarespace dot com slash s. y. s. k. for a free trial. And when you're ready to launch us. The offer code s. y. s. k. To save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain squarespace use it. You're ready to get back into yoga. So you ordered the essentials a non-slip matt yoga blocks to keep balance and an exercise ball. And you used your bank of america. Cash rewards credit card choosing to earn three percent cashback on online shopping or up to five point two five percent as a preferred rewards member which you put towards the cost of your most essential yoga gear. Noise cancelling headphones apply for yours at bank of america dot com slash more rewarding copyright two thousand twenty bank of america corporation so chuck. We're back and as a harm instead. Things are whatever between the hatfields and mccoys nothing. Nothing big has gone on. Even if there were any sort of skirmishes or little pfizer. Run ins or that kind of thing. I get the impression that the families when they saw each other there was like a a slight percentage that the side. we're going to get in at least a fistfight. Not take potshots with their gun. Just think they'd probably just didn't like each other very much from the beginning right. So there's possible those things. why not. Nothing big happened though until the pig the pig incident and apparently it wasn't just one pig down to you but it was several. Yeah and that was a big deal if you think about a pig Stealing a pig is not a big deal at the time There's a book called the feud by dinking dinking dean king. Thinking said it's so weird dean king and he said Where was their next meal going to come from. And how could they feed the children in the winter. They're lucky enough to have one pig or razorback for sell or trade. The proceeds were used to acquire flour. Sugar coffee sometimes. Shoes or boots for their families was a mainstay for the family. So these days you hear a pig or even a couple of pigs and you think what's the big deal but in the region at the time these these pigs were very valuable so it was a big deal right i saw a An affront dude. Done well yeah. That was another thing again. We're talking about backwoods appalachian folk in the nineteenth century. There was a lot to the idea that you would stolen their property which as it should be but even that aside saw this historian on Cbs sunday morning clip from a few years ago and he explained like you can feed surf sizable family for a month with a single pig and this guy stole several pigs. So the guy who who was accused of stealing the pig was Who was it. Chuck who Randolph mccoy accused. Floyd hatfield okay. Right so all randall. Himself said floyd hatfield cousin devil anse. I know that you stole those pigs. And i'm taking you to court while they went to court. The problem is the local. Magistrate was a hatfield. But in this guy's favor. His name was a preacher. It was his first name. I believe and he was basically what amounted to the local judge in the tug river valley he He tried to make it a fair trial. His does he the one that placed it in land because the trial took place in mccoy territory. Yes hatfield though right. And he made sure that the jury had six fields and six mccoy's on it he did and nobody else no joke. Yes weird but he was trying to make it as fair as possible right And so they they had a trial. Where floyd hatfield was tried for hog theft. Have you ever had something stolen from you. Sure like you know not hugely valuable but yeah it's it's one of the things that irks me most. It's very irritating. There's something about like just someone taking something that you worked to buy. That just really boils my blood now. Imagine if they took that thing that you work to buy and they were directly taking food out of your child's mouth at the same time. Yeah it make you mad. I'd pull a hatfield. The weird thing is is the mccoy's the hassle is at this point are saying we will let the we will leave it to the courts. Sure so they did go to court. They did try to have a fair trial. At least the preacher did preacher hatfield preacher judge. It's confusing and the jury was split except for one who was a mccoy who sided with the hatfields. His name was selkirk mccoy. Another made up name and selkirk. He voted that Because of a guy named bill stayton who had testified that floyd had not stolen the pigs He said you know what. I'm not going to contradict bill. Stating i know him to be truthful or whatever journalists. I work for devil. Anson is logging operation. I'm gonna vote pro hatfield and exonerate floyd and flew. Got off in old randall. Went nuts state was the main witness in. He was a relative of the mccoy's but he was married to a hatfield right so And while they did intermarry. I saw that there was way more marrying within the family to avoid intermarrying oh yeah. There was a lot of first cousins. Yeah that were when you watch that family few clip you can go find it on. I'm sure on youtube but there is a mental floss article that we found that had it embedded at the bottom. Yeah that's right. I heard about it. The when entered introducing the families. They introducing one another like kissing cousins. This is a kissing cousin. Diane right and you're saying that nineteen seventy nine so yeah. There was a lot like intermarriage within the family itself. Well they were probably just joking right. No now on family feud the guy didn't sound like he was joking that he kissed his cousin on tv. No but Richard dawson kissed her. Kissed guy kissed any woman who had standstill long enough. What you learned richard dawson. So yeah r.i.p yeah. He didn't change his name or even though he was british Well you don't know that it's true. Could have been richard. Dimsum or chummy dawson. Who that's a great name. So so old. Randall has just lost this court case yes and even worse. He was made to pay the hatfields court cost. Yeah for taking him to court and remember we characterize dole raynal as a kind of a bitter man anytime. Life handed him lemons. He just squeezed him into his is anger and he went on for this for years. About how the. This is a miscarriage of justice. How floyd had stolen his hogs and so now. Anytime hatfield mccoys Win depending on their allegiance to the clan or clients Anytime they saw each other they were shooting at one another. They were getting into fights. They were throwing rocks like one of One of devil sons Was standing there when old railroad up. Once and old. Randall started railing on. About how floyd had stolen hog and the mccoy's or the hatfield son grabbed rock and just threw it at all rannells mouth just crushed his mouth the rock. Yeah because that's what you did back. Then you killed my brother harmon. But you stole my hog right. you know. i'm cool with the brother. Killing the carmen had it coming right. But that hog never heard anybody. Yeah we were going to eat it so to recover The fact that state in two years later was killed. This is inaccurate. Is that not true. Bills state in junior was killed. Oh bill senior was not killed in the skirmish another that retribution. Now okay for his paws. Yeah because remember money after the hog incident in the hog verdict. The the hatfields and mccoys did not fight it outright. Then at the at the Magistrate's office judge preachers place right. Yeah but every time the clan saw one another they would shoot at each other. They were getting fights. They take rock to the faces and then it culminated finally in this really truly violent incident between bill state and junior and Paris and sam mccoy right okay. So bill stating juniors out. Hunting sees these mccoy sons and says well. I'm in a world of trouble. Yeah i better take a shot at one of them and shoots peres mccoy in the hip and sam mccoy was like you shot my brother. You're going down and he shoots bill and wounds him and then goes over and executes and point blank in the head and this bill junior bill junior c. I got another article that said it was bill but it also said he's bill stanton so i'm starting to doubt all kinds of accuracy. There is a lot of inaccurate stuff. So i got I think the description of that incident from a really great book by a guy named john. It's days of darkness colon. So you know. It's legitimate feuds of eastern kentucky. So there's been like serious bloodshed here now. One of the direct retribution for the hog stealing verdict. A man has been executed point blank in the head and the to mccoy. Boys just tried to get away with it. Yeah so blood is spilling Fast forward a bit to eighteen. Eighty two and Three of randall. Sons are attacked stabbed twenty six times and shot ellison hatfield who was devils younger brother to death right and that was on election day and election days were like drunken affairs. Do you remember when. I think in the bars episode. We talked about like what was it. get people drunk and doing something. Planters yeah Bombo planting the plying. The actress with bumming voters with dumbo man. But it was election day so everybody would get super drunk and when you get to clans. that don't like each other super drunk in the same place. They get in fights and people get stabbed twenty six times and then shot in the back. Yes so those. Three sons Of randall were actually arrested and were presumably going to go to trial but vigilante Took hold and they were kidnapped on the way to the trial by the hatfields. And they said we're gonna take care of this our way. Yeah and they like. I don't know if they let them get away with it but they got away with it. No they did not let them get away with. This was a huge turning. Point right When the hatfield mccoy boys were intercepted by the hatfields taken across the river to west. Virginia which is basically like taking them. To fortress hatfield country. Justice was going to happen. Yeah but devil. Anse vowed that if ellison made it didn't die he would not kill these hatfield. Mccoys boys but ellison succumbed to his wounds and did die and so they took these boys out and tied him to trees and shot him. I think more than fifty times or something like that. So you were saying like they. They got away with it. Not for lack of trying right it. Basically set off this huge huge issue like this was even for the tug valley. Chuck this is pretty flagrant frontier justice. You're not supposed to. There's a magistrate named preacher. Who's supposed to settle this kind of stuff right. So a guy named perry was perry's named perry cline you know what this is. This is too big. We need to take a break and get to the story of perry cline. Okay hey everybody if you like us and you have a dog or a cat the good news for your pet is that veterinary care is getting more and more advanced by the day but that comes with bad news because that means that all that advancement mean that budgeting for unexpected injuries and illnesses can be a little difficult. That's right when your pet is sick. Only one thing matters getting them. The care they need. Trupanion helps plan for your pets. Lifelong health needs by protecting you from the unexpected with medical insurance for cats and dogs. Yup their policy pays for new and unexpected injuries and illnesses with no payout limits. Em- plus they can pay partnered veterinarians directly before you're even done checking out. You just pay your portion and go without waiting for reimbursement check with over twenty years experience. No payout limits in over one thousand five star reviews on trust pilot. You can feel confident. You're getting the best possible medical insurance for your pet visit. Trupanion.com dot com today to learn how trupanion protects pets and pet owners. Like you from the unexpected. We're all shopping for essentials online these days and now you can get rewarded for it with the bank of america cash rewards credit card. You can choose to earn three percent. Cashback on online shopping essentials. The essentials have never felt more rewarding visit bank of america dot com slash more rewarding to apply now copyright. Two thousand twenty bank of america operation. So we're back chuck and we have a new guest famous. Perry cline come on in perry. You're an attorney He was married to martha mccoy. And here's the deal Years before there was a situation where perry cline was Cheated out of. I think five thousand acres of land was he cheated. I didn't know if he if it was actual like justice. Because he had supposedly been cutting timber from deva lances timberland. Well here's the deal. Every thing you read will say it depends on who you sympathize with. Oh yeah is how you think perry cline and really all of them were viewed sure so Read articles that said that he was cheated and articles that said he wasn't cheated and i think the family still today like while there is a piece which will get to They still disagree over. Perry klein's role. Okay so but perry claim was married to a guy actually as harmon. Mccoy's widow right. Yeah martha and so he had lost five thousand acres really. That's how much he was forced by the court to see to deva lance for allegedly cutting his timberland. Yeah so he was. He had he had a retribution in mind. As an attorney right. So when the hatfields executed the Mcchord the three mccoy boys Perry cline used it as a chance depending on how you look at it either. Use it as a chance for attribution or his family. Allegiance was stirred up. Yeah and he being an attorney had contacts with the governor governor bunker. I believe of kentucky and said governor. There's some horrible stuff going on down here. That's being perpetrated by some west virginians against some law abiding kentucky in and you guys need to do something about it and it worked actually yeah. They reinstated the charges and Basically put out awards on the head bounty on the head. Yeah arrest bounties that is of the hatfields including Six feet of devil in one hundred eighty pounds of hell. Yeah devastates himself. Yeah his sons. Some of the family allies dogs. His uncle jim vance. Yeah i think there were There was twenty twenty men who had indictments against them and since they had indictments against them and they were hanging out in west. Virginia they had bounties on their head and one of the bounty hunters. The main bounty hunter. Who came around it was. It was a problem that they had bounds on their head. Because any crackpot who wanted to could come and take shots at those guys and and it was happening quite a bit. Yeah they wanted to collect some do right. But there's one guy in particular who is a real thorn in their side. His name was frank phillips. In frank phillips was a bounty hunter extraordinaire. He was about as legally gray as you can get and still not be on the darker side of the spectrum and he made it basically as personal war to get as many hatfields across the river into kentucky as he could so he would carry out raids on the hatfield stronghold in west virginia And basically just abduct hatfields bring him to kentucky so that they could be put in the pike county jail. Yeah and while he did this he was also executing people left. And right like jim vance. He shot and wounded saw that he just wounded him walked around from behind and While vance was begging for his life shot him in the head and like this is frank phillips mo he would execute you just as soon as he would capture you. Yeah and this was This was becoming a big deal in the press at this point Newspapers started carrying the stories became By all accounts like national news and legends like it was everyone knew about the hatfields and mccoys by this point right and the press apparently very much sided with the mccoy's painted the hatfields to seem like backwards murderous rednecks who just cause trouble. Everywhere they went and painted the mccoy's innocent law abiding victims of of this This whole feud And the whole legend. Like you're saying this is all it all begins about right here when when there was what amounts to almost a war between kentucky and west virginia because frank phillips kept going and getting people and bringing them back to pike county and west virginia got involved and the two governors were basically standing toe to toe almost about to go invade sending national guard troops in the border But instead they left it to the courts and actually this court case about whether it was legal or not for frank phillips to have abducted the hatfields and taking them to the kentucky jail Reached the supreme court. Actually which is pretty amazing. It is in the supreme court. Said you know what It probably is illegal. What happened but kentucky's a sovereign state and there's really nothing west virginia can do about it so go ahead and try them but before the trial actually while the These abductions were going on these raids. Carried out by frank phillips. The hatfields like i said like it was a big deal. Them that they were bounty hunters out to get them and they came up with a plan to just end the whole thing. yeah in eighteen. Eighty a murderous killing spree is what they came up with In january eighteen eighty eight group of hatfields Said we're gonna attack randolph mccoy and his entire family Cap little copy. Double answers son In an ally to jim vance led the way and they ambushed them at their home on new year's day. Eight hundred eighty eight. I randolph actually escaped. Which is They're kind of coming after him and he's the only one who escaped while they were coming after the whole family. Yeah like whole intention was murdered this whole family. Oh yeah the problem in randolph was the key guy. He actually got away His son calvin daughter alla fair were killed In what they called crossfire but they were. You know let's get real and his wife. Sarah was suffered a crushed skull. She was beaten so badly. Yeah so they set the house on fire. Allah fair opened the door to put the fire out and she was shot and killed and then her mom. Sarah wanted to come in like comfort her dying daughter and when she came out they beat her head in with the butt of a pistol. i think. Cap hatfield did and then Calvin provided cover for his dad and ran to attract their gunfire so his dad could get away and it worked but calvin died as a result and then two other daughters mccoy daughters survived. So randall and two daughters survived this attack on his family. And this is when it was like if the press wasn't paying attention before now they really were and Basically everybody was outraged at this. And it like this. Legend chuck is one hundred. Something years old right. Yeah and it's easy to kind of see these people as caricatures or just historic. But when you think about what the hatfields plan to do and tried to do to the mccoy's in that case on new year's nineteen eighty eight. Yeah the news. Massacres does known as that's like objectively despicable. No matter when you win you win. It happened going after an entire family to kill them to wipe out a legal entitlement. You know yeah it is and it really kind of Brings home like the actual humanity of all of this. Yeah so it went all the way to the supreme court and they decided you know what these hatfields should be. Tried in eighteen eighty nine. They were tried in eight of the hatfields and their supporters were since life in prison and one ellison mounts who People think is the son of ellison hatfield and his first cousin. Your was actually sentenced to death and the one issue here was a lot of people now think he was a kind of a scapegoat because he was mentally challenged and Maybe an early false confession happened right exactly and he actually Really his was if he didn't do it or even if he did he really got screwed over by the prosecution. They said that If he confessed in in cooperated that he would get a lighter sentence when really he was the only one who confessed and he was the only one who was hanged so in his dying words. I think were the hatfields. Made me do it. Then they hung him. Yeah and there were no public executions at the time but that did not stop Hundreds of people thousands even from coming out and watching anyway so it was a public execution and with the what's odd though is th the so ten. Ten men had been captured by frank. Phillips tried and nine of them got life in prison. Ellison mounts was was hung and this was apparently enough to I guess mollify randall mccoy. At first i think he tried to like Rail against the verdict but ultimately it was enough to just calm him down and he went and lived a quiet. Life quiet haunted life as a ferry. Operator i think and live till like age. Eighty eight yeah in about a year later when the family's bo said enough is enough skull truce and From i think it was an eleven year period. Almost twenty four people were killed in both families while like close to two dozen folks around eleven year period. That's legit yeah. That's a. that's a family feud right. Thanks a big viewed endeavour. Lance lived to age two he to I think eighty three or something like that. Seventy-three that's not that. Well he was born again at seventy three. I think he lived indoors eighties really and he. He was paranoid for the rest of his life. Because i think there is still bounties on his head so we moved to an island and carried a rifle with them at all times for the rest of his life. Well they if you look at pictures of the families. They all had their guns. I mean that's what you did back then. But it's it's funny to see a picture of like twenty people in you know. Twelve of them are brandishing weapons. That's right yeah. In the one photo that will ever be taken of them. They've got their gun out to So since then They've been all over the place in pop. Culture we mentioned family feud Those an abbott and costello movie in nineteen fifty two buster keaton movie to really mccoy. Yeah he was not looney tunes. Excuse me. Mary melodies big distinction but still bugs bunny Nowadays there are even some medical professionals who think that there was a condition that the mccoy's had led them to be violent. What it's called Von hippo lindau disease and these geneticist steady dozens of mccoy descendants and said they have a really high rate of this disease it's inherited it's rare produces tumors in the pancreas And side effect is high blood pressure racing heartbeat and increased Aggressive behavior increase fight or flight hormone and it was the mccoy's that may have had that because from everything i've read. It seemed like the hatfields would have been the wouldn't have that. Well maybe i'm a victim of contemporary press bias bias. I got nothing else. There's other stuff. There's plenty of stuff that. I'm sure we didn't hit and you should go read some of the cool books written about this stuff. I got one more thing. Here comes world. War two Life magazine used. The families is a way to unite america's war effort by featuring them in a big photo spread the hatfields and mccoys working together in factories. For board two. That's awesome yeah. And they i think they even met recently in like they're still out there and they're still meeting and talking about this and disagreeing friendly disagreements on people like perry cline and he was the other guy madman. Mont was mad. Frank fill mad frank phillips who member. I said he was legally gray young. He married a mccoy who ended up. Who had had a baby with. John c hatfield. They ran off together and got married. Frank phillips in nancy mccoy and ended up being prosperous bootleggers in the region. Wow well and there was. Also a spurned romance to that led to tensions. I forgot about that. Yeah rosanna roseanna mccoy and johnny hatfield. Yeah they had a little Tryst and child together child died. I think aged eight months from measles but he kicked her to the curb before that and then married her cousin although there were no curb spec then. He kicked her to the riverbank creek side. Yeah again we could probably keep doing this for another forty five minutes. But we're not if you want to know more about hatfields and mccoys ghosts in your favorite search engine search engine. It's time for a listener mail. I'm gonna call this just a nice little email. Thanks a nice person. Okay Josh and chuck and jerry. I'm a young thirty something who lives in berlin illinois. I just recently started listening to podcasts. And came across how stuff works. And you guys. I'm inert at heart and your podcast feeds my inner beast. 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mccoy jim vance logan wildcats tug river valley carlos watson america randolph mccoy kentucky randall hatfield bank of america hatfield mccoy perry cline frank phillips chuck dean king west virginia floyd hatfield
114 - Illuminati Revealed! The New World Order Conspiracy

Timesuck with Dan Cummins

2:35:56 hr | 2 years ago

114 - Illuminati Revealed! The New World Order Conspiracy

"The Federal Reserve act the Bill burgers, the Jewish Anti-Defamation League. The Rotschild socialism, communism oak grove project, M K, ultra freemasons, Wall Street, the council on foreign relations the national security act of nineteen forty seven area. Fifty one the CIA pizza gate, the trilateral commission agenda twenty one the illuminated the grays the reptilians the protocols Zion. The Denver airport all pieces of a much larger sinister puzzle. What happens if you connect these dots? If he if he can just stretch enough string around the round the walls of your basement war room. If you just step back and squint your is just hard enough. Can you see the full picture there? The are lurking in the background looking in the shadows. The new world order always been lurking in the background controlling humanity. A secret group of Lucifer theory and all powerful, shadow leaders manipulated and subjugating humanities various puppet governments year after year century after century. But why? Are they doing this? What is their desire? What the new world orders leaders have to gain by operating in secret. If the organization is truly all powerful while parade from the shadows why secretly oppressed humanity. If you can just do it brazenly and openly. Why won't they step out and publicly claim their thrown this organization really is so powerful and secretive? How is it that people who don't have PHD's or work in prestigious academic positions or who are respected by their academic? Peers how is it that they seem to be the only ones who can constantly expose the new world order. How is the people without even four year college degree or any education whatsoever? Investigative journalism. People like David Eick are Alex Jones can easily connect the dots that academic investigative journalists that the scientific community can't that their members quickly. Dismiss also the goal of the new world order is to tighten the noose around the neck of the working, man. The working woman. Why does the quality of life continue to increase overall for the world's poor? According to a UN report seven hundred ninety five million people were hungry and two thousand fourteen while the billion or Hungary in nineteen ninety. However, those numbers do come from the United Nations and the United Nations are part of the new world order, dammit, the poor and working class of the world. They do face. Real problems economic inequality is high real estate prices are outta balanced with inflation the cost of higher education continues to store sore prescription drug prices Ford insurance real problems for many there is a lot we need to work on keep an eye on. But it is an undeniable fact that the people are living longer and longer thanks to continual medical advances. People are living more and more comfortably. Thanks to tech advances. You know, even struggling members of the working class. Enjoy a hell of a lot more creature comforts than peasants did imitable Europe or in you know, during the supposed good old days of the mid twentieth. Century air conditioning, central heat bluetooth enabled cars with cruise control ergonomic seat. Iphones with free music. Streaming music services. Even this podcast. You're listening to right now you listen to for free. So what exactly is the new world? Order accomplishing. If their goal is to oppress and another goal of the new world. Order is supposed to be to eliminate us to kill a majority of the common working class. Right. Open up the world for the rich and the elite the powerful the world's population. Currently hovering around seven point seven billion way up from six point seven billion in two thousand eight up from six billion in nineteen ninety eight way up from somewhere between one point six and two billion from one hundred years ago in one thousand nine hundred if the new world order is trying to get rid of us, the are really really really fucking bad at it. Another goal of the new world order is for these secret. Elite to be fantastically wealthy and powerful. Right. They secretly have all the money will according to the Forbes two thousand eighteen list of the world's richest people, Amazon, founder chairman and CEO. Jeff Bezos worth one hundred. Twelve billion dollars hundred billion Bill Gates is worth ninety billion dollars. Warren Buffett worth eighty four billion. Is there any benefit to being wealthier than that do the new world? Order members need trillions hundreds of trillions. What would be the fucking point having that much money legitimately. What could you do with the trillion dollars that you couldn't do one hundred billion dollars the world's most expensive? Theoretical yet. Not even one this Bill yet just the world's most like expensive design for a yacht possibility it's called the streets of Monaco. And if anyone pulls the trigger on building this thing, it'll be a floating luxury representation of Monaco with go kart grand prix, fifteen thousand square foot three floor main cabin fifteen thousand square feet helicopter. Patchy Cousy swimming pools, seven VIP suites, each thirty eight hundred square feet in size, a library movie theater. Several large boats, a small submarine will dock inside series. It's a small floating city with its own tiny navy, and it's estimated price. Tag is one point five billion dollars the most expensive house in the world Buckingham Palace. One point five five billion dollar estimated value seven hundred seventy five rooms one hundred eighty eight staffrooms seventy eight bathrooms. There's a villain. India that is four hundred thousand square feet for roughly the same price. I live in a three thousand square foot house. I think is very roomy. My house gives or that that big house any could fit one hundred thirty three of my houses inside of it and still have a little extra room. Jeff Bezos, could sell some Amazon stock own the streets of Monaco that yacht and Buckingham Palace and still be worth. Well over a hundred billion dollars. He could own the most expensive home in the world and the second third fourth fifth most expensive the most expensive private jet, a seven thirty seven hundred thirty seven million dollar b two spirits and the most expensive yachts a few other yachts a hundred plus of the world's most expensive cars. He he could pay people to carry them around on a literal golden throne. He could eat only the rarest of animals. You know, Kobe beef have the world's best masseuse gave him daily, massages. You know, be be a legally sexually attended to whatever he desires an Amsterdam by the world's most expensive escorts and still have roughly one hundred billion dollars in assets. At that point how much more do you fucking need? What more would aluminum body new world order money and power give you believers claim these dark bastard on satisfied with things they can merely be bought wake up Shapal open your third eye and see the cult all around you don't just want money. They want to live above the law. They wanna bathe in Virgin's blood. They wanna sexually assaulted sacrifice kids to Satan, dark Lord or or maybe they're Lord of some extra terrestrial, ancient reptilian leader. Or maybe they're behold to the grays aliens living in area fifty one that the US government is sold us out to the doctor the new world. Order isn't totally known fully agreed upon because the secret runs so deep the many people know, they exist, they know in their bones. The dark forces surrounded the ferry as powerful traders to the human race or controlling us. The new world orders both everywhere nowhere and today on time suck I uncover by the will of Nimrod the origins of this organization and or conspiracy and discuss the nature of conspiratorial thinking. The conspiratorial mind and also how to challenge a little bit conspiratorial thinking on this. I'm ready to get hammered by trolls ready to get so many thumbs down on YouTube addition of time suck. Happy Monday time. Suckers hail Nimrod HALE is faintly praised triple Ambuhl jangle 's beware Chiquillo chicken, Joe. Would he have course, beware of the new world order? Dan comes a master sucker. Sergeant suck lot profit Nimrod Duke a second hand palace. And you're listening to time suck recording in the suck dungeon here. In court. Elaine, Idaho, Reverend Dr Joe motherfucking paisley run the boards and also also going to be joining us today for a special segment of it into the internet excited for that man gonna shake that segment up today today's time. So 'cause brought you at once or once again by the Jim Jeffrey show podcast. The Jim Jefferies show on comedy central covers the most controversial issues of today through Jim's distinctive brand of comedy and global point of view. And the Jim Jeffrey show podcast is a slightly more podcast version of gyms hit television show listening tweak is Jim Jefferies and co host forest Shah, sit down with friends and guests to discuss news politics. All the things Jim couldn't wouldn't shouldn't say on TV Dr drew comedian, Joe Koy, comedian Stevo jackass just a couple of recent guests so subscribe now to the gym Jeffrey show podcast and listen to new episodes every Wednesday on your favorite podcast app time because also brought to you by the star talk all-stars podcast and world filled with fake news flatter Thursday, conspiracy theorists. What's the thinking person? Like you supposed to do time sucker think like a skeptic. Of course, how perfect is this Pouncer. For today's episode on last week's episode of star talk all stars neuroscientist host Heather Berlin PHD in her comic. Oh, host our fear. The man who hosted my favorite comedy central show. Ours for longtime. Am super funny, dude. Yeah. This is not happening. He was the host of that the creator that they investigate the importance of skepticism in the power of evidence based thinking to help us separate fact from fiction Heather Ari are joined in studio by guests CARA Santa Maria, and Dr Steven Avella loved. Dr Steven novella. We've talked about him before to the host of the popular weekly size podcast a skeptics guide to the universe. So if you're worried about the growing tide of anti intellectualism and should be and the devaluation of experts and facts, which were seeing all around us. Tune in for show Phyllis science and skepticism remember trust. No one question authority listened to star talk all stars to get the rigor scientific thinking you're desperate to hear that star. Talk stars. Listen now, a wherever you get your podcast and make sure to subscribe, a reminders for both podcast sponsors and stays episode description. And and speaking of just, you know, critical thinking, and just, you know, a focus on facts, I do want to address something it's come now that we've done the YouTube episodes. Yeah. Many of you have noticed and on Instagram that that I am reading a lot of the episodes off of a teleprompter or you're wondering, I guess is is Dan reading out. Now, I've I've always been reading I've always been read I read what I write. And I know how to write like, I talk. But here's my right. It. Write it all down because it's important for me to get it. Right. And and have a hypercritical audience, which I love, and if you guys, you know, you know, you guys noticed that I make a few pronunciation mistakes and get a few things wrong here and there with with and that's what I'm doing it from a script that's been proof-read by an editor. If I was just fucking making this shit up or trying to remember it all well, first off this podcast wouldn't have worked and second. The time sucker updates would be about three hours long everything. No one can memorize two hours of facts on a new topic every single week. No, one not anyone in the history of the fucking world. I'm gonna confidently say that you could get, you know, maybe if you have a great memory a lot of it. Right. A decent amount rights, but not even Robin Williams. You know, the comic whose fame for having like that what photogenic memory, it doesn't work like people thinking there's now he looked at a script read it literally one time, and then could just have the whole movie memorized. No one's brain works. Like that. Yeah. I read it because it's heavy in facts. You know, who else reads off a teleprompter fucking newscasters because they just winged it if they just kind of like gave the gist of what we're supposed to be facts, he'll be a fucking shit show as with this podcast. So yes, I proudly proudly read this every week because that's where the time and energy goes. That's why spend thirty plus hours on every single topic. Even with the reach researchers helping me after all their hours because I want to get this. Right. I think it's important today in today's climate to get shit is right as you possibly can to be factual as possible. And I want the jokes to be a little bit better, man. You know, stand up comedy people have this. The delusion about it. They think we comics just make stuff up on sage no successful comic. Does that? None. I've worked with many. They all have notes at the very least. They they watch video of themselves. Even the ones who don't right. I'm not going to throw the their names of their with some very famous ones. They watch videos. They like. Football player watching film. They get right. If people just went up and winged it then comics could release fifty albums a year, but they don't very few released one a year because it takes a lot of time to get it. Right. And I'm trying to get a podcast, right? Every week. So yes, yes. I'm reading it. I'm reading a mother fuckers deal with it. Also reality TV is fake if just so I can burst bubble a bit more. All right. Let's live in the real world. That's we're talking about today living in the real world. And thank you for those of you who do get. It's forget the good reviews wherever reviews can be left and for spreading the suck bypass around preview videos of episodes or post on Instagram Twitter Facebook, thanks for sharing clips tagging friends. Retweeting men at all spreads the suck. We work really hard on this. I'm glad many of you. Appreciate that work, and thanks for subscribing to the video feed on YouTube where you can see the suck. And you watch my eyes bounced back and forth between the camera talking directly to the audience like I'm doing right now. And then the script when I'm trying to get the names. Right. The dates rights and trying to do a good job. Which is what all people that are, you know, sharing knowledge. Sharing information should be doing, you know, who doesn't read a lot of stuff. Fucking Alex Jones. I get strong feeling that dude's winging it and you see where that gets you David Eick. He's doing a lot of winging it he's. Winging it. Yes. Some names memorized, and he just goes up there and just lies for a couple of hours. Okay. Hope and I had fun in Grand Rapids Michigan last week. And it did have fun of buffalo. Just record this in advance of Grand Rapids, first time through buffalo for me. And and I think looks like I'm going back next year because enough people showed up to build on. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Gotta gotta keep growing the time so community upstate New York. We'd Spokane comedy code November twenty ninth thirtieth December. I hoping for a third straight year of good times in the city. Why did my first stand upset so many years ago heading the Saint Louis December six to the ninth? Then my next show is a Ted talk on cord line at the Kroc center, where I will also not be winging it I will do memorize tedtalk. I will memorise have months only reading that one. 'cause I've months to prepare or I've had months, and it's I think seven or ten minutes, maybe ten maybe ten or twelve minutes. I gotta look it up. Now, there's going to be on January twelfth linked to that as well. In today's episode description. Thanks to those of you who donated additional funds to the time suck official cherry. The month. We've donated dollars a spacer patronage, and I know some of you have donated as well to the green beret association dot org. Supporting our special forces praise Django Django may or may not be a member of special forces may not still be fighting with them. Maybe he is still with them. Also thoughts go out to those affected by the campfire and several other fires they've been ravaging California hoping they've put those blazes out by the time. This episode comes out firefighters battling those blazes you guys. And let you ladies or heroes. Also can't imagine how horrible it would feel to lose your home, all your possessions. Like, so many thousands of structures burned to the ground basically, the entire town of paradise lost as I record this the death count's over fifty and it could be in the hundreds it's looking like worst wildfires in state history. Hope time suckers have been spared of this tragedy these tragedies. And now it's time to suck. Simon to do. My best to understand. In what the new world order is who may be a part of the new world order, why some people believe in them, and where that belief originated. Welcome to the new world order. What is the new world order? It's the brain child of Hollywood HOGAN broiler. Hollywood hulk HOGAN, Scott hall, and Kevin Nash took over world class wrestling, aka the world wrestling federation in the nineteen nineties through brute force, and organiz aggression, brother Mingji, there is no stopping the new world. Order broiler rusher in the new era of terror. No one could studying the ring now Rick lawyer now string, not Randy macho, man savage. No one brother Sunday Sunday Sunday or everyone gets crushed by the twenty four inch pot homes who knew who. Now, we're not talking about that. That's a fun one though. None of those guys do that. And I had to drink water all the time. Entirely different new world order. That's professional wrestling. Storyline involving HOGAN based on the real belief in the theoretical secret. Government organization known as new world order. Let's really define the N W to quote, New York magazine, the new world order is not so much single plot. As a way of reading history at its most basic level cabal working in secret as well. As through official seeming above ground means seeks to establish an all powerful possibly in one world government suspicion surrounding shadow establishment date back at least to the seventeen hundreds with the birth of the freemasons and the illuminating, but it was the past centuries. Global wars political realignments in media innovations that gave new purchase to this age old paranoia in the modern version, the new world order hides in plain sight, a mad lib style meta story about how the free people of the west have begun to willingly blindly surrender ourselves to are coming to Tyler -tarian overlords. So really the timelines the new. World. Order begins with the the real late eighteenth century group, the aluminum we did discuss back in time suck sixty nine and the bonus surrounded that one those freemason conspiracies we gave a brief overview formation as we're touching on the formation of this regroup again today as a refresher. And also add new information not mentioned that freemason suck. Once we begin the timeline some believers in the new world order will point much much further back to the origins of a secret shadow one world government. But all that finger pointing has happened since he actual luminosity was formed in the late eighteenth century, and before I get into dissecting this. Conspiracy theory limited say that I do understand the appeal. I really really do. I don't think it's totally crazy to believe that people would want to rule the world. Like, I think about it like with football. Like, what would what would a highly competitive professional quarterback want to do want to accomplish in their career automation? They would want to be league MVP. They'd wanna win the Super Bowl Super Bowl MVP. You know? Going, you know, pure ideal ideal fantasy highest paid quarterback in the league have their bust enshrined in canton. You know, make it in the hall of fame and everybody talked about how great the are for they'd want to achieve the pinnacle of their profession. And I think you know, what if you're a highly competitive leader, a super competitive CEO entrepreneur politician. I mean, the world has had plenty of dictators people do want to rule they wanna rule as much as they can. We know that what would a highly competitive dictator want most I would think to rule the world. I mean, it has a nice ring to it next. Best thing to ruling the world allowed us to have a hand. In ruling the world be part of some little cabal of secret rulers, maybe. To be the ultimate in the ultimate inner circle of wealth and control. So so new world order believers, I do get where you're coming from. I don't think you necessarily insane to leave in this. I think some of you are, but not all of you some of you is we'll see in today's is eating. It is the internet or out of your wackadoo minds, but for many believers, you know, it's easy. I think just to write them off as crazy. But I don't think that's fair. There is a certain way of thinking this very prevalent in our culture that absolutely allows for the belief in such things as an all powerful possibly LUSA Therion possibly extraterrestrial government. Because a lot of us. Meet sacks live in what is called or can be called an enchanted world, this notion of an enchanted world, very very important crucial to understanding the conspiratorial mine by chance that I mean believe things that cannot be explained or proven by science that there is no science. Diffic- evidence of everyone who is a believer in religion lives in an enchanted world, and yes, I am going to talk about religion again today, but I'm not going to be shitting on it. But understanding the religious mind is crucial to understanding the conspiratorial mind because they have a lot in common. I gathered most of what I'm sharing with you regarding a belief in an enchanted world, by the way from watching electrons C span of all places on their website, given a high school teachers on July thirteenth two thousand eighteen by Indiana University, Bloomington history. Professor, Dr Steven Andrus, the PHD from Stanford who delivered his three hour lecture on behalf of the Gilder Lehrman Lehrman institute of American history, a nonprofit organization dedicated to promoting the knowledge and understanding of American history through educational programs and resources for k through twelve students and the title of this lecture is conspiracy culture in American history. And what a beautiful organization what a beautiful a message to get out, by the way. And I love this lecture. I'd love to have drinks, Dr Andrews man, you can tell like. He's got to keep it clean for the academic world, you know, PC because the audience in front of him and the times you live in and selling people who get so fucking butthurt by words like fuck, but I was strong suspicion. This guy would be fucking riot. Super smart guy who couldn't help, you know snake in a little bit of sarcasm snark from time to time during this lecture to his credit he was very respectful towards the true conspiracy believers much more than I am. Anyway, he he talks about how religious American culture is. And he states that if you're willing to believe in Jesus or Mohammed or Galway Sheva Buddha, Odin pan, wral all add Nimrod. He'll Nimrod loose FINA. The Dow was principle of believed in the existence of still living souls and spirits of dead, ancestors, etc. Well, then you're open to the possibility of real things that can't be scientifically proven like like a new world order conspiracy. And the same goes for believers in the paranormal of these supernatural, whether whether or not those believes are also religious, you know, if you have faith and ghosts haunting shadow people sasquatch Mossman. Well, then you also live in chanted world your mind is open to believe in things that cannot be proven. And we here in America. We live in a predominantly enchanted culture, and I know our Scandinavian Australian British Irish Scottish, Kiwi, Canadian other international time suckers. Hello, by the way. Love the love. The guys are spreading this around the globe. I know that many of you live in chanted world as well. But I don't have the stats to speak to your cultures. Today. Just have stats limited to America. These are two thousand seventeen stats come from the Pew Research Center. A nonprofit nonpartisan American research institute sixty percent of over thirty five thousand American adults, sir. Surveyed in two thousand seventeen believed that God is a person with whom people can have a relationship seventy four percents believe in life after death. Seventy four percent believe in heaven fifty nine percent believe in hell. Sixty three percent believed that scripture is the word of God. And I found this the the most interesting ninety two percent ninety two percent of Americans believe in God. Or or universal spirit some creative force. So according to the survey ninety two percent of Americans believe in the existence, some kind of spiritual potentially undefinable possibility beyond our intellectual comprehension, some kind of life-form, which means that only eight percent of those survey don't live in an enchanted world out of the people surveyed who identifies being spiritual seventy nine percent agree that miracles occur. Like today as they didn't ancient time seventy nine percent believe in the possibility of miracles sixty eight percent bleed that angels and demons are active in this world. Really important when it comes to understanding a lot of today's conspiracies. And by the way, there's a plethora of amazing stats at Pugh form dot org. All laid out and well-designed graphics and charts graphs, check it out sometime if you get the chance space, there's a knowledge is power hell Nimrod, now's like paranormal, or at least nonreligious numbers that thirty seven percent of Americans believe the houses can be haunted. Twenty five percent believe in the power of astrology. Twenty four percent believe it some kind of extraterrestrials have visited earth at some point. Twenty one percent believe they can hear from or communicate, you know, mentally with someone who has died. Twenty one percent believe in witches and not like, which is in the sense that people believe are like, you know, followers of the wiccan kind of spirituality, and I'm talking about like Salem witch trial type, which is you know, cauldrons potions spells black black tabby cats at least thirty percent of time. Suckers can't stand Woody puppet. Paranormal investigator. It's. Hurry, friend. I'm just trying to keep you safe from. You know, they're out there just trying to keep your holes plugged in. And you're so safe. Hey there. Eric cantor fading. Wolf is big deal will d he does is shuttled Chica till arousal you on behalf of Tom soccer's. Not careful. You're lame jokes feel tingling noun salts shadow Shinnecock bottle. No house jerk will be it in the Rascic. You some more maybe to death never pelvic throw some couplets before. Please suck master continuous show. Sorry, new listener side. There's there's a secret world exist here on time suck sometimes Nimrod wills that characters from past episodes show up and confuse us and say terrible things. Stay strong, stay strong, norm. Don't drive you met back to the stats when you look at all these numbers as I laid out. Dr Andrew says this is my favorite quote from his entire lecture. We are living in a medieval world with high speed internet. Yes. So true. We have all this extra technology, but but our minds in certain ways, and for a lot of us have involved that much in the last couple of hundred years. Yeah. The technology chain man, but the underlying beliefs in the supernatural decks plannable now haven't changed that much so believe in the NFL, and especially belief that malevolent entities such as demons or not only real, but active in our world, very important element and understanding conspiratorial mind and dark forces surround us, another equally important component of the conspiratorial mind is a belief in secret groups, strong belief in order to believe in the possibility of the new world order to obviously believe in the reality of secret agencies that can be working against us. And before we start picturing, the stereotype of some forty year old man, you know, living in his mother's basement covered Cheeto dust, sitting on his computer and some chat room random about Chem trails pies. Guys that jogging us a Dr Sanchez wakened offense as doing UN helicopters to come from Canada Roddy shut off into FEMA camps twenty-first-century inflaming American decimal. Happy gun. Mom. Where's that Castro? Role. How am I supposed to fire up till liens of MC Thomas Hardiman growling before start thinking about that guy know that a belief in secrets a belief in large organizations that are withholding information from general public is very rational actually that does affect happen. When large corporations prepare roll out a new product, they do keep information secret from the public because amongst other reasons that want the competitors to get a hold of that info and beat him to the punch and cut into the corporate profit Kentucky Fried Chicken really does guard. The secret blend of eleven different herbs and spices the recipe for Coca Cola is a fiercely kept secret I've signed numerous nondisclosure agreements over the years when being considered for some reality show, or when working on some reality show in that sense. You know, I have kept secrets actively from the general public and taking this realm. Take us to the run the government, which of course, leads us to the belief in one world government, governments do keep secrets from the general public. The CIA has publicly disclosed numerous secret things they've done using taxpayer money to do. So that are morally questionable at best such as douse dose. Strangers LSD in San Francisco in the early nineteen sixties we talked about that and the ultra suck bona suck gate, and why was doing that? Because they wanted to develop a mind control drug to USA -posedly to extract information from foreign spice all justified by the CIA all justified by the Cold War by the belief that Russians were doing the same thing. Pretty fucking scary. Our government putting doses of LSD the drinks unsuspecting bar patrons, unsuspecting American citizens sitting LARs adver Cisco that happened. That's a fact we know that was done. We know that nine hundred thirty two the US government's public health service working with Tuskegee Tuskegee tusk day whenever institute began to study to record the natural history of syphilis in hopes of justifying treatments for African Americans. Well, they said in the hopes just find treatments really they were just used these poor people as Guinea pigs. It was called the Tuskegee study of untreated syphilis in the negro male. The study initially involved six hundred black men three hundred ninety nine with syphilis two hundred and one did not have the. Jeez. And it was conducted without the benefit of patients informed consent. Researchers told them in they were being treated for quote, unquote, bad blood local term used to describe several ailments, including syphilis Namias fatigue in truth. They weren't treated for shit. They weren't given the treatment they needed to cure their easily curable disease in exchange for taking part in the study the men receive free medical amps free meals burial insurance, although originally projected lasts for six months study wanting for forty years four fucking decades all the way until nineteen seventy two even though penicillin was known to cure syphilis by nine hundred forty seven and it was only stopped then because it was exposed this happened. Our government lied to its citizens in a super fucked up way told unsuspecting citizens they were being treated when in fact, they were intentionally denied treatment for treatable devastating disease. The US government is in horrible things to it citizens. Fact, it has created least one massive highly secret organization, the CIA the fact and has done some highly questionable. Thanks to its own citizens. And then there are foreign governments that definitely are secretly working against you at the very least government employees are meeting in secret to figure out how to harm the citizens of other nations. Russia isn't going to tell the US. You know, exactly what am I do to US citizens and the outbreak of war and vice versa? North Korea is going to share all the tricks probably has up at sleeves regarding how it handles South Korea in the in the outbreak of war and vice versa. So, you know, there are secret organizations actively working against you. That's a fact another piece of the conspiratorial puzzle is a conspiracy obsessed culture, we live in American specifically fascinated with secret groups, how many TV shows have been made about secret underground organizations. We're going against the best interest of American citizens. Twenty four ages shield Lindsay actually worked on agency shield the costume department for that show Buffy angels and demons the x files X-Files huge in the nineties my favorite show, and it was all about massive conspiracies between a or I guess the one major conspiracy between aliens and various leaders of of our world's. And the obsession continues with the youth today. Like, my son kind of told me last year seventh grade class of sess with illuminated. None of his classmates seemed to be able to to define it. But they definitely believe in its existence. There was a shadow government out there. Pulling strings. Also lending credence to the possibility of one will government knew will order or historical alliances and extremely powerful internationally connected families, those do exist as we learned in last week's World War. One suck alliance has been made between the various powers of Europe as we also learned that sock. You know, a lot of European leaders have been related by blood. There are numerous storm blood ties between the nations of Europe steps have been taken in a sense to have one family one government rule, a vast chunk of the civilized world. Several members of the Habsburg family have been holy Roman. Emperors the Habsburg dynasty split in the sixteenth century rule in Spain as well as in Austria, the Spanish Habsburgs went onto rule much of Italy. And Sicily other half's for lords of the Netherlands dukes of burgundy kings of Spain Portugal. King Philip the second of Spain was technically also the king of England for a time kings of Hungary and Bohemia have been Habsburgs even Mexico emperor in the mid nineteenth century for a few years. Members of the house of Capuchin. Or the house could get should have ruled France Spain, Portugal, Naples, Sicily, Abani, Poland, Hungary, Luxembourg and more few even ruled Brazil when you look at some of these ancient Royal families, and you also look at historical colonial powers attempts to legitimately colonize. I e take over the world when world powers fought each other to colonize the Americas. Africa parts of Asia, a one will government doesn't seem that far fetched. When you look at how Europe itself had nations either takeover or try to take over the content as recently as World War Two when the Nazis gave it ago, not that hard to see how the existence of a plot for one government to take over the world is is a somewhat logical assumption to believe in. However, the Nazis didn't try to hide their attempt to colonial powers of Europe Britain Spain France etcetera, they didn't hide their dreams of expansion. They didn't operate in secret. There isn't a historical precedent of of a large secret organization, you know, ruling of vast quantities of the world, or is there or is there if you're a conspiracy believer you can easily say, well, it's a fun. And secret you dummy. Of course, there's no evidence. Open your third eye. The plan for the new world order has been emotion. The whole time people pulling strings in secret hiding in plain sight, wake up Shapal. Okay. So now that we understand a little bit about how real events have proven to us. The government isn't about. Above excuse me hiding secrets from us. It isn't about harming isn't above harming its own citizens, and how belief in an enchanted world does open the minds of a majority of Americans to the possibility of invisible forces in a belief in some of those forces actively working against as the belief in the new world order is not as implausible as it may seem at first glance. But does that mean it exists or that it even makes sense for it to exist? We'll get to that. But first, let's dig into the historical origins in development of this particular conspiracy right after a word from one of today's lovely sponsors face time. Suck is brought to you by the new world order odor, eating airfresheners when someone walks into your house. Do you want them to gag and then tell sorry, it's a genetic condition. Some somebody will speed sweat more than others. The lot of people don't know this fee contain more sweat glands prince than any other part of the body. Please the constant dampness creates a breeding ground for variety of different types of bacteria play. Sally played. We're cartoon, HUD, leave me. Why? Ever leave me you want that or when someone walks in your house? Do you want to see a please smile on her face? Do you want to hear God is that first lavender is that fresh lavender that's been harvested by angels, and then tied to ripe strawberries, and then scattered around your house by some sort of a potpourri ferries. 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And I don't feel Lindsey when she gets up tonight to let the dogs out because they eventually do wake her up, and I know that because I hear about it the next morning because she's super annoyed that I didn't get up and take the dogs out. But you know, what blame Lisa sleep into solid. I can't hear those dogs right now. Get one hundred dollars off at leesamattress purchase. A plus a free pillow at Lisa dot com slash time. Suck enter promo code time. Suck at checkout. This is Lisa's best offer. Lisa dot com slash promo code time. Suck L E A dot com. Promo code type sock. Lincoln the episode description. Do it enjoy it. Thank me later. And now time for today's time suck timeline. Wrap on those boats soldier marching down a time southern tie line. Thirteen ninety seat understand the origins of the new world order. You have to understand the origins of the luminosity and understand the origins of the luminosity happen understand the origin of the freemasons as we discussed way back in the freemason sucks. The freemasons gay you luminosity on his we'll discuss. Ooh, Benatti would give birth at a belief in the new world order. It's all kind of tied together due to a lack of documentation or because of luminosity trickery. There is no real solid. Evidence of secret ritualized freemason gatherings prior to seventeen seventeen when four freemason lodges form the first grand lodge of England. The earliest hard evidence of ritualized freemasonry that links the freemasons of old to the freemasons of the eighteenth century. And today is the Regis poem of thirteen ninety Regis meaning of or belonging to a king. And I can't read the original tax 'cause I don't speak fourteenth century middle English, especially when it's put together in rhyming couplets looks like. Fucking gibberish to me, the document according to scholars who are to be fair probably in on it like Alex Jones says state, the document talks about how the craft of masonry was brought England the tenth century, and the richest poems speaks of how all the Masons of the land came to the king for direction as to their good, governance, governance, how king as stand together with nobility and landed gentry forged the fifteen articles and fifteen points for their rule. This is followed by fifteen articles for the master concerning both moral behavior. You know, like do not harbour thieves take bribes attend church regularly, etc. And the operation of work on a building site. Do not make your Mason's labor at night. Teach apprentices properly do not take on jobs that you cannot do a cetera. And I'm not gonna go into much more depth here because we already did a two part on the freemasons bonus fifteen episode six nine three hours of freemasons plus another three plus hours on the knights Templars probably enough. Probably enough. But I would like to remind you that if this all sounds suspicious. You know, the Masons are in it with the royalty. Just remember that Masons were an incredibly important. They were important group of people in medieval Europe, because they design the castles and other fortifications, they built the churches very very very very very important. They built in most important buildings in kingdom of Europe when it came to both military and a monarchy might and spiritual power. You don't have strong castles, you don't have strong forces. You're not gonna last as a kingdom. You don't have beautiful churches. You're not going to inspire people to tie, their very souls to your kingdom, and you don't get great castles and great without kick ass, masonic knowledge, hail Newmont and Masons protected that knowledge in handed down to only those they design worthy of receiving it to keep their kingdom saved keep their trade strong. You know, how their have their trade continued to be invaluable to kingdoms now could an organization like that have used a cult or satanic powers to to build their fortresses. Via some type of black magic could they have used ancient alien technology because they've been working for those aliens. Could they still be working for them could those aliens be ripped Ilian? I mean, yeah, sure, I guess so, you know, Tony danza could be the devil. I could have two pairs of balls. My mom might be the world's best harmonica player. My neighbor might have built a spaceship out of aluminum foil and positive energy. But I really fucking doubt. It. These are all things you can't just easily just proof. But it appears that Masons use good old, geometry and grit to build their structures, not Luciferian or extraterrestrial trickery, contrary to what is repeated all over the web. And what is stated on imaginative shows like age aliens? Also, we do know how the pyramids were built. This is another thing about these Masons they mostly use black magic. Because now they built a pyramids, and nobody is impossible even using modern technology. No one could even do it. That is. That's just not true. That's bullshit, it it'd be a suck in and of itself to describe in detail, but Billy the pyramids just involved enormous workforce made up primarily of slave and peasant laborers working for decades. Enormous limestone quarries boats canals police systems elaborate police systems and talented, Masons. There is evidence regarding how they they were built in the forms of ancient papyrus scrolls written a few thousand years ago by men who actively worked on the pyramids and a lot of archaeological evidence, but they're obviously isn't video you know, this happening when no one's recreate. Us today because it will be super fucking expensive. Just just to solve an argument. There isn't definitive step by step blueprint. So there is some mystery to it, and where there is mystery with things like this conspiracies, flourish conspiracies flourish in the land of maybe the origins of some type of actual stonemasons, go back beyond the earliest, known gypsum pyramids. Which are founded Sikora north west. Memphis, the earliest among these was constructed, you know, between twenty six thirty twenty six eleven BC. So, you know for a long time there's and people building impressive stuff jumping back to the freemasons. So no, no one actually knows with any certainty. However when the masonic fraternity, we know of now was formed the most widely accepted theory among masonic scholars is that it rose from the stonemasons killed during the middle ages because that's what the the rituals. Come from. That Masons us today comes from middle age, you know, stonemason guild rituals of freemason history is tricky because freemasonry and Prussia Bavaria Austria in late eighteenth century was disorganized confusing for a variety of reasons. Lots of competing orders, lots of competing rights were invented. Many of which have little or nothing to do with the original notions of English craft freemasonry. These new orders were names were freemasons in name only. And if you think this whole time is just gonna be vague dates, like don't worry, we're getting to more documented stuff. Now is this the origins are just very very murky the origins of the illuminated the real luminosity not murky. We know exactly when they got going in who started the secret society, it was in Bavaria and seventeen seventy six a professor of religious law named Adam vice opt formed a group called the order of the perfectible ists, basically perfectionists with the notion that through mutual aid philosophical discussions, careful advice, they can improve morality and virtue oppose evil, improve society, and thus reform the world it wasn't masonic but sounded masonic. And in fact, vice did take some of the ceremonies from rituals from some freemason lodges that were formed in his area because he had looked into being a freemason earlier. Was familiar with the rights and forming a group like this team super weird? You just remember that again as we discussed those freemason sucks variety of members only organizations were very popular in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries in Europe also to America and around the globe dudes back then loved the boys club, right? Some women love Girls Club. There was the odd fellows, moose lodge Rebecca's. They all have their elaborate rituals. Why I don't know some so members can have fun. So they can network for new business opportunities meet like minded, and or interesting people get away from their families. And because we're herd animals, and it's just fucking fun to be being a club time suck has its own club. Now, the space lizards, I started it, and we have some rituals. Things we say, and and I'm going to add more, you know, secret, shake, we've got already why not add more, man. Life is short get weird with it. It's fun who doesn't like having some secrets and as vice fellow. He's probably the most important name and luminosity lorries considered by many to be the founder of the aluminum. I mean, I mean he was he wasn't founder of that. That luminosity group a born in seventeen forty eight and Ingles Ingoldstadt a city in the electorate of Bavaria now modern Germany vice was a descendant of Jewish converts to Christianity. And why did they convert because antisemitic sentiment was rampant in Europe and life was easier. If you're part of the in crowd, which was Christianity in Bavaria, and you tended to live longer and not get lynched or executed if you were not Jewish orphaned at a young age, Adam Scott Pelley to care of his education rolling Jesuit school. After completing his studies vice op became professor of natural and Ken law university of dot married. Started family on the surface had a very conventional nice career and till eighteen seventy four when the very in learned of his insane. Cinderella ideas, as a boy, he was an avid reader consuming books by the latest French enlightenment philosophers in his uncle's library and ideas, as we know can be dangerous things vary and late eighteenth century was deeply conservative, deeply Catholic and vice op started to have a lot of questions, and you know, churches in general don't don't don't like a lot of questions store. Cly? He started to think that the monarchy and the church will repressing freedom of thought he became convinced religious ideas were no longer an adequate belief system to govern modern societies. And he decided to to find another form of illumination, a set of ideas and practices that could be applied to to radically change the way European states. Run freethinking challenging the supremacy of religious scripture and church leaders, historically, a very good way to get yourself killed or at least in a whole heap patrol freemasonry was expanding throughout Europe at this time offering attractive alternatives to free thinkers like like vice opt and he initially thought of joining the lodge, but became disillusioned with many of the freemasons ideas through myself into books dealing with such esoteric themes. As the mysteries of the seven sages and kabala and decided to found a new secret society of his own. Oh, looking into new ways to worship to don't include the existing established clergy. Great way to get a lot of trouble seven sages or seven Wiseman is the title given by ancient Greek tradition to seven early sixth century BC. Philosophers statesmen law givers who were renowned in the following centuries for the wisdom men such status of militas a pre Socratic Greek man recorded by Aristotle is the first loss for in the Greek tradition. A man historically recognized as I individual in western civilization known to have entertained an engaged in scientific philosophy and full disclosure. I forgot to look up his name phonetically. So I'm thinking could be sales. So you know, it's going to put that out. There Kabbalah is a form of Jewish mysticism. A question of old tasks texts and rituals written a guide one towards direct communication with God. So Adams curious, I think you would enjoy time suck I think he'd be a spacer. He was doing deep dives into subjects like Jewish, Mr.. Assim ancient Greek philosophy and the Catholic church and organization that is spiritual that had a spiritual stranglehold on most of Europe. At that time didn't particularly care for that. You know, any other idea that isn't as competition and big highly profitable organizations, like the Catholic church do not like competition. There is only so much tithing to go around in the late eighteenth century where we're pissed off the church might not get you burns at stake like a wooden previous centuries yicky thrown in jail fired from your job have life ruined. The more out of studied the less of a fan of the Catholic church in the nation's controlled by the pope, he became he also became less of a fan of the verion government finding them intellectually oppressive and he began to dream of a revolution. He wanted to create a world with freedom as he wrote from all religious prejudices cultivates, this cultivates the social virtues animates them by a great a feasible and speedy prospect of universal happiness to achieve this. It was necessary to create a state of liberty and moral equality. Freed from the obstacles, which subordination rank and riches continually throw in our way. And then on the night of may, I seventeen seventy six to group that would become a soon known as illuminated met to found this order and forest near stat bathed in torchlight. They're only five men that first night in those five minutes down the rules that would govern the order all future candidates for admission required, the member's consent, strong reputation with well-established familial and social connections and wealth. So there is that in the beginning the orders membership at three levels novices Minerva lls illuminated Minerva lls mineral referring to the Roman goddess of wisdom Nerva reflecting new orders. Aim to spread true knowledge elimination about how society and the state might be reshaped. So the aluminum body to me now looking so bad right now, some cool dudes into question authority and to question, their spiritual municipal leaders. I'm fucking into it. I like it tailed him rot. Through his lodge, Adam befriended, and then interested several fellow Masons who fancy themselves intellectuals. You know, he's dabbling and freemasonry in quickly. They quickly changed their name to the order the aluminum body. You know, meaning intellectually inspired at first he he only convinced you on those four others to join in that first night. And then then they adopted secret names and codes to communicate with each other vice opt particular had to keep his secret because he was making his living is professor of Catholic canon law. At a Catholic university under the pen name Spartacus, vice opt outlined a secret plan to infiltrate the freemasons, overthrow the governments of nations and churches take over the world and create here, we go on new world order of tolerance and equality. So the aluminum he was real real incense that some do did form a group, you know, with that name dig it others to join did have rituals did want to overthrow existing governments and take over the world. In a short time out grew to about two thousand members they expanded into Belgium Holland Denmark, Sweden, Poland, Hungary, Italy. And of course, France, a friend device. Ops of baron. Adolph Knigge was a well known. Mason Bavaria and assist. Advice? Hop with developing degree rituals based on masonic ceremonies, unfortunately, illuminate attractive, both the best and worst of aristocratic society and its aims began to lean far more to the destroy governments and churches side, then then to the improve society side and at the same time by ops Catholic students at the university of Ingles town were being increasingly pumped full of his anti Cass. Rhetoric the Jesuits figured out who was in the outed him. And as the confessors to the royalty of Europe. They had their own network of spies and infiltrators, and they convinced the Bavarian government to arrest him and seventy four he fled the country, but he left behind incriminating papers outlining the illuminates ambitious plans for world domination. So that's true. They were widely published all over Europe to expose you luminosity secret plans to flush out of their members, many of whom gonna wind up in prison in March seventeen eighty five Bavarian crown passed an edict which expressly banned the aluminum, and and the the order supposedly died by nineteen by, you know, by seventeen thousand five actual Manati is thought to have been gone last few years didn't overthrow anything. Or so we think and what was happening in America to the formation of the aluminum body the formation of our nation. This is not gone unnoticed at all this timing by conspiracy theorists. Something that Adam killed US President, George Washington, and then took his place as the first president of the United States washed. His porch on the US dollar Bill is said by some to actually be vice off portrait, and what's on the back of the dollar Bill. Illumine Nadi eye of providence. And I used in freemason iconography all the pieces fit hiding in plain sight, Adam became George Washington. Then put himself in a hyperbaric chamber placed in a state of suspended animation for two centuries reappearing a few decades ago as both David I and Alex Jones win have you seen them in the same place at the same time? It's the same puppet. Those to ask clowns make a mockery of the new world. Order to make us all think it's a big laugh when really killary Clinton and president crisis actor or selling us out United nation slash free mation slash Shriners slash I j the international association of jugglers, which is a real organization based in Wilmington, Delaware, and their mission statement is if you have your hands on more than two balls at the same time, you're doing it wrong. Okay. Fake mission statement reorganization. Okay. Back to rally, Adam vice? Up would die in exile in eighteen thirty and Goethe German city, not part of a very at the time. He fled one of the members of vice ops luminosity group important to the new world order conspiracy, very important who did not end up in prison or an exile was banker. Here's a big name conspiracy lore may Rothschild. Don, Don, talked about the Rotschild conspiracy length and the secret suck quick recap of the Rotschild for the general times. The guardian mayor Rothschild was German Jewish banker. Born in seventeen forty four in Frankfurt. He would quickly build a banking empire. Foreign like anything the world had ever seen. He's the son of a businessman who worked in currency exchange for local mine royalty member and why did his family work in banking because it was one of the few careers legally available to Jewish people in Europe, thanks to a combination of anti-semitism and Christian Usery laws because these usury laws, you know, actually, hold on that actually let me say Jewish people were prohibited from a large variety of. Medieval europe. But money lending wasn't one of them because of the Israel's the church forbade charging interest on loans by Christian citing the Christian notion of Usery, citing such verses as exodus twenty to twenty five which says if you lend money to any of my people with you who is poor you shall not be like money lender to him, and you shall not exact interest from him also Ezekiel eighteen thirteen lens at interest and takes profit, shall he? Then live he shall not live. He has done all these abominations. He shall surely die his blood shall be upon himself. So in order to get around the pope forbidding Christians to lend money, you know, Christians, including a wealthy royals. They started hiring. These people don't as court factors that became the term for a court factor was a Jewish banker who would lend their money on their behalf. It was just a classic loophole. You know, they couldn't technically lend money, but they could hire somebody like mayor watch out to lend their money and have that money make more money. For them the way, all great investors, do and then, you know, for like a fee paid to mayor. Of course, the mayor was a really really really good at lending money. He was the Michael Jordan of money lending and after becoming a court factor in seventeen sixty nine mayoral child steadily picks up more financial clients, eventually his expanding client base leads him to become the financial lender. For crown. Prince Ville, Hillman seventy-five, this prince became film, the ninth land grave of Hesse Kassel larger state and then that dude had one of the largest fortunes in Europe at the time. And then during the French revolution Britain hired a bunch of Hess, Heston hessian, excuse me mercenaries soldiers belonging to kill him and Rotschild handled the payments, and then in the early nineteenth century Rotschild continued to be the banker for the very wealthy Ville, very wealthy off of that war, even after Napoleon, invaded Hesse and fill him went into exile. And he and Bill made a bunch of money financing sneaking goods into Hesse past the blockade the Napoleon setup and mayor. Also had ten kids and he brought several of these kids into the increasingly lucrative family trait. You know, right time, right place. They capitalized on great opportunity in seventeen ninety eight. He sent his third born son Nathan mayor Rothschild born in seventeen seventy seven then only twenty one years old England to further family investments in textiles, and you know, you see that date, you know, at the very end of the eighteenth century, right? This is this is all same line of the freemasons getting going, and, you know, this luminosity group and everything, you know. So for conspiracy is like all the pieces are right there. By eight hundred four Nathan was able to open a Bank in London, the rottweilers families first foreign branch, the youngest son James born in seventeen ninety two sent to Paris in eighteen eleven only nine hundred opened another Bank enhancing, the family's ability to operate across Europe following the Napoleonic wars James played a major role in and financing. The construction of railways and mind businesses. It helped me France industrial power time. And then they had kids became bankers and long story short. The Raj house became the wealthiest family in the world. The world is going to the world ever seen in the head of their family was in the luminosity. He actually helped fund the aluminum body. So the head of the world's first most powerful Bank and family is the same man who funded the alumina d done done. This is not conspiracy. This is truth is documented fact, the rottweilers became the bankers for numerous European nations nations run by royals often related to one another. It all does paint quite a picture now. Let's get back to the end of the nineteenth century, excuse me. The the end of the eighteen. And century seventeen ninety eight less than fifteen years after the fall of the aluminum body Scottish pro-monarchist a guy named John Robinson Robinson wrote proofs of a conspiracy against all the religions and governments of Europe carried on in the secret meetings of freemasons aloof Noddy and reading societies collected from good authorities. That is the actual title of the book. I've talked about this in the secret suck. And then also a French abbots named Augusta in a barrel was working on a four volume work memoirs. Illustrating the history of Jacobinism Jacko, banismmont Jesus. Both these worked put forth theory that the illuminated caused the French revolution. By roaming, the countryside planting the vile seeds of heresy heresy in revolt among happy and contented French peasants. And there may be truth to that the revolution did begin in seventeen eighty nine just a few years after Adam vice off and other luminosity members did go into exile. They really did want to overthrow governments in Europe. And begin a new so they probably did plant the seeds of heresy and revolt. Of part of rules works with later. Then be plagiarized this mythology just keeps building it'd be plagiarized and rewritten a century later as anti Jewish propaganda, a primary source document for many new world order believers, probably the most damaging propaganda that's ever been written in the history of earth. The notorious done Tata the protocols of the elders of Zion. Let's jump ahead. A little bit to nineteen. Oh three right after a word from our final. Awesome. Sponsor today's time suck is brought to you by the great courses. Plus with the great courses. Plus, you can continue learning about all the things you still want to know watch and listen to award winning experts as they explore fast, any people places and ideas with unlimited access to thousands of lectures. There's always something new to explore now, I recommend currently lecture number nineteen from the course, your deceptive mind a scientific guide to critical thinking skills. It's called the trap of grand conspiracy thinking top Dr Steven novella mentioned him in that earlier spa. Answer mentioned and it discusses the aluminum body. How perfect for today suck doctrine developed talks about how illogical conspiratorial thinking. How illogical can be like using the illuminaries an example, how an organization or how can an organization be so deviously talented that it can pull off the greatest conspiracy of all controlling the entire world from the shadows. I mean, what could be harder to pull off the net. But how could it also be so careless and clumsy that it makes enough mistakes to allow someone like David Alex Jones to expose them. How can you take over the world but not managed to shut David Ike? The hell up. This is just a small part of this lecture. The great courses plus is fantastic. And it's giving today's lizards a fantastic limited time offer. So get your first month free unlimited access free unlimited access to enjoy their huge library of engaging lectures. When you go to the great courses, plus dot com slash time. Suck that's the great courses plus dot com slash time for. A first month free link in the episode description think critically now back tonight's no three the exact origin of the protocols is unknown. But in one thousand nine three portions of the protocols of the elders of Zion were serialized in a Russian newspaper the banner the version of the protocols that has endured and has been translated into dozens of language was first published in Russia in one thousand nine five as an appendix to the great in the small the coming of the anti Christ and the rule of Satan on earth fun book fund pamphlet by Russian writer and mystic and fucking lunatic. Surgey surgery Niwas and twenty four chapters or protocols allegedly minutes from meetings of Jewish leaders. The protocols describes the secret plans of the of the Jews to rule the world manipulating the economy controlling the media. Fostering, religious conflict killer was a big fan of this book. So with Lennon so Stalin they would use extensively in antisemitic propaganda, millions of Jewish. People have died because of these lies old school mass Lander man, we've talked at length numerous sucks about how the Jewish people have had a tremendously rough go of things throughout most of European history because the Muslims had empires the Christians had empires. But a medieval Europe, the Jewish people never did. They were continually a small minority misunderstood, and whatever majority culture, they lived in at least in Europe and do mainly to the Christian mythology of having the Jewish people have a lot to do with the crucifixion of Jesus Christ Christian saver. They were constantly labelled as traitorous and untrustworthy, you know, they were continually persecuted if you were a terrible ruler. And it would benefit you to blame some small group of people for all your countries problems all being being being Jewish people easy target. That's the go to great target as well for conspiracies nineteen twenty one the London Times presented conclusive proof that the protocols were a quote clumsy plagiarism the times confirmed that the protocols had been copied in large part from a French political satire that never even mentioned Jewish people MAURICE Jolie's dial. Log in hell between Machiavelli and Monte secure eighteen sixty four other investigations revealed that one chapter for Prussia novel Herman goats Biarritz and eighteen sixty eight also inspired the protocols and has already said the French abbot Agusan barrel was plagiarized for this as well. And so what did they say? These things these protocols. Well, here's a little quote from protocol eleven the totalitarian state sound familiar, the goyim, which is no non-jewish people, the goyim or a flock of sheep, and we are there wolves. And you know, what happens when the wolves get a hold of the flock, they start fucking m I in the vagina then in the. But now, it's not what it says. It says when we'll get all the flock. There is another reason also why they will close their eyes for we shall keep promising them to give back all the liberties, we have taken as soon as we have quelled enemies of peace in tamed all parties, it is not worthwhile to say anything. About how long time they'll be kept waiting for the return of their liberties for what purpose then have we invented this whole policy and insinuated into the minds of the goals without giving them a chance to examine its underlying. Meaning the what indeed if not in order to obtain in around about way, what is for our scattered tribe. Unattainable by the direct wrote. It is this which has served as the basis for our organization of secret masonry, which is not known to an aims which had not even so much as suspected by these cattle attracted by us into the show army of masonic lodges in order to throw dust in the eyes of their fellows. And now we're getting into the meat of this shit, the nitty gritty see if this propagandist proven Lee plagiarized propaganda doing this this the nationless Jewish people holding secret meetings ticket with they really want the world meetings where they declare their superiority to all other people. Brag about manipulating the world's Chris. Wins. And then there's propaganda ties the freemasons conspiracy to freemasons tied as we know the aluminum Noddy luminosity tied to the Rotschild to Rotschild the wealthiest family in Europe by the early nineteenth century tied to the various monarchies of Europe America is born from those monarchy's, it's all the same families. Everything's connected. Don't you see people and then in the nineteen sixties new texts written by a couple NRP's hippies of all people that revived these old paranoid fears and shape them into new vision of the new world order. I had fascinating dig into these guys this week did not know anything about them solve very very very interesting in the mid sixties, mid nineteen sixties handful of copies of a small printed. Text emerged within the LSD loving authority or ESI loving authority and establishment hating American youth. Principia dischord. This book was a parody text for a parody face discordant conjured up by enthusiastic, anarchists and thinkers to. Forbid its readers to worship erase the Greek goddess of chaos, the discordant movement collective that wished to cause civil disobedience through practical jokes and hoaxes. I think of the nihilists think like member flea those actors in the big lebowski just agents of chaos, the Texas L never amounted to anything more than a little counterculture curiosity, but but one of the tenets of the faith that such miscreant tippety could bring about social change and force individuals to question the parameters of reality was immortalized by another author Robert Anton Wilson this son of a bitch. We have him specifically to thank for a lot of today's idiots of the internet comments this Wilson, and one of the others of the Principia discordant Kerry Thornley, well, they decided that the world is becoming two-thirds Harian too tight too close to controlled. They wanted to bring chaos back into society to shake things up and the way to do that was to spread disinformation to disseminate misinformation to import to counterculture to the mainstream media through whatever means. And they decided that they would do that initially by telling stories about the quote, unquote, a luminary Wilson worked for the men's magazine playboy, and he and Thornley they started sending in fake letters from readers talking about a secret elite organization known as the aluminum, and then they would just send more letters that would contradict the first letters they'd written just give everybody all worked up, and I do find this pretty funny because I also worked at playboy I worked for the pay per view branch of the business hosting the playboy morning show for for two years and an our producers they're used to make up fan mail for our show because no one would ever send anything. There was intelligent. We would decays into these segments based on fan mail. And if you read the real fan mail, it would just say stuff like you guys don't show penetration. Hey does Andrew like anal when he does didn't get some bitches with some bigger tits. I mean seriously. It's fucking discussed is discussing it. Maybe hate the show was on more than our D. It was just dumb sheets writing in dumb misogynistic type, you know, just just fucking jerk off trolls that was, you know, a lot of the audience and so producers, you know, they were embarrassed by that too. They didn't want to you know, create more of that. So they would just write fan letters that read a little bit more intelligently. They would write stuff like high love your show. This is for Andrew Andrew, my wife, and I enjoy role playing, but I have a hard time staying well hard when I pretend to be someone else. I worry that my wife secretly would rather have sex with someone anyone other than me or my concerns valid or am I letting my insecurities into the bedroom? And then she could say something intelligent back to no one ever actually wrote in a letter like that and supposedly from just talking to other producers that should happen all the time on shows and in print not on this one. If you can trust me, every time sucker litter has been real. But but now these guys make me wanna throw one of my lies into an update just because it would be fun to fuck listeners. But I won't do that. Because I do I trust me which is. I always call out my lies. So anyway, these guys I'm guessing they had a blast manipulating playboy readers into thinking. The aluminum was real and active threat to the American to American life, man. I mean, can you imagine making up those letters, and then you're sitting in a bar like six months later, and you just hear some wackadoo in the corner. Like listen of can Lumine Nazis been trying to do I read all about it. So Wilson his buddies. They're not the only one talking about a luminosity type or his actions during the counterculture revolution of the nineteen sixties previously, unknown author Mary m Davison publishes, the profound revolution in nineteen sixty six a manifesto positing, the new world order hide in plain sight detailing how re-live institutions like the Federal Reserve the council on four relations US government operate as fronts for the international bankers. There we go protocols as I on a shadow establishment, by international banker, you know, again. Yes, she just means the descendants of the the Rothschilds and all that kind of stuff their friends this book amplified themes of commun-. Infiltration advanced bestsellers like John storms nineteen sixty four. None dare call it treason. Alex Jones favorite book to story. William guy cars, the red fog over America and ponds in the game published in Britain nineteen fifties. Then republished in America, the nineteen sixty seventies and eighties one world government classics that warn of a very particular political trajectory. I they Florida the water next. It's World War three. And I'm like Alex Jones said they're putting chemicals in the water turning the fricken frogs gay. Whether it's a real, quote, do any of these books possess any real evidence to back up their claims. Now, none are taken seriously by any academics. Which just feeds the conspiracy. Of course, they're not taking seriously their laughed off because the academic leader in on it secret Mason's part of the ongoing luminosity Zionist puppets of Zionist actively bringing about the new world order. And of course, he's books are going to be paranoid about communism of the Cold War still going strong, the Russians still boogeyman why what is the Federal Reserve. Anyway, the council foreign relations since he's things get mentioned. Well, the Federal Reserve was created on December twenty thousand nine hundred thirteen when Woodrow Wilson acting president sign the Federal Reserve act into law. The Federal Reserve system often referred to as Federal Reserve simply the fed central Bank of the US created by congress to provide the nation with a safer more, flexible, more stable monetary and financial system. And right now, I'm actually not reading off of notes right now. There's a there's a luminary there's a reptilian in the room, and he's just holding up. He's holding up like cue-card signs, and he's telling me exactly what to say. And then there's another opinion that has Monroe, and it's like fuck do you want if I can show them? Now, you can tell you this is what you tell people the Federal Reserve responsibilities fall into four general areas. One is conducting the nation's monetary policy by influencing money and credit conditions in economy pursuit of full employment. Stable prices, another one supervising and regulating banks other important financial institutions to ensure the safety and sound is of the nation's banking and financial system to protect credit rights of consumers. Another one is killing a US presence JFK who threatens the power of the Federal Reserve to manipulate the economy, the United States on behalf of evil, Satan, worshipping international Jewish bankers that of course, the lie, but not one I made up that's one out there that a lot of conspiracy, theorist belief. The real one is maintaining the stability of the financial system. And. Containing system at a systemic risk that may arise financial markets in other ones, providing certain financial services at US government, US financial institutions foreign official institutions playing a major role in operating overseeing the nation's payment system. So the fence does and the Federal Reserve has been a target of conspiracy theory since its inception. Who believe in a lot of things that is run by foreigners not part of the US government. Prince money's a pleases. Never audited that had Kennedy killed the Bank is not run by foreigners. Sped reserve is run by combination of Federal Reserve Board and the twelve Federal's of banks who together form the governance of the system and a board of governors is comprised of Americans. And the reserve is part of the government's the board of governors and the Federal Reserve system is a government entity seven members, including the chairman or anoint or appointed anointed almost lit up. My lizard, anointed by the king of the aluminum not. No, they're appointed. By the president with the advice, you can send to the senate's and report semi annually to congress. And I'm glad. These positions are not elected, by the way, I want someone who knows the most about money running the economy, not someone who wins a popularity contest regarding printing money, the bureau of engraving and printing does that the part of the US treasury. The fed does get to decide how much of that data. The economy, though, how much the circulate and the fat is audited feds board of governors subject to an audit. Every year by firm using generally accepted, accounting principles zero evidence. So the fed beat involved in the Kennedy assassination. Why is the fed tied to the new world order conspiracy because of the international Jewish banking? It's as we discussed because they control the money, and you know, people control the money to be in a conspiracy. Whether it's secret shadow government, making lots of money, what about the council on foreign relations. It's a think tank founded in nineteen twenty one headquartered in New York City office in Washington DC, dedicated to being a resource for its members, including government officials in order to help them better understand the world and the foreign policy. Choices facing the US and other countries has about five thousand members and dozens of secretaries of state. CIA director's bankers. Other senior politicians have been members or members regular citizens can also be members hinge Alina Jolie randomly as a member to be a member. All you have to do is sacrifice one red blooded American patriot to the Jewish reptilian masters of the group who do live in a bunker, six hundred sixty six miles below Jerusalem that is separate from hell only by a small door made from the skin of virgin martyrs. Behold buffet leader of the underground Zionist federation of bankers hail, Satan, slave master to the gonna masses. No that'll probably be edited out and spread around the internet. As proof that I'm part of the conspiracy to become a member you just have to be US citizen or permanent resident applying to be cysts in and pay annual dues. It's a group of people who understand that the US has never going to enter some crazy 'isolation as period, we have to work with we have to trade with to provide aid military to other fucking countries. So we should probably study how best to work with those countries. Easy to see though, how this translates into working for a one world government. Okay. Nineteen seventy two fierce Christian anti-communist paranoia. An interesting organizational cultural activities were coming together late fifties and sixties as well as evidence by the formation of the John Birch society nineteen Fifty-eight which saw civil rights legislation. The rise of the welfare state regulations around occupational safety is as evidence of coming one world government and then in nineteen seventy two conservative commentator, Gary Allen publishes. None dare call it conspiracy. Prefaced by California, congressman John Smits, which extends the paranoia to deficit spending and basic banking offering tales of how organizations like the council on foreign relations, the trilateral commission carry forth, the economic agenda of an invisible. Global power elite. It sells five million copies new world. Order new world order here. Come those fucking black UN helicopters our own government. So this out except those black helicopters. Still aren't here in two thousand eighteen right? We're still free. I can still say crazy shit on stage and on this Mike on this podcast one new world order. How can we not suppressant me or am? I n on it. I mean now that I think about it. There is a giant pentagram under the carpet of my in my basement that I did drawn blood of local church leader, they went missing. And if I push all five points, the pentagram, but once a secret tunnel does open up an eath my basement, and it does lead. Now that I think about it to the to the Denver airport, and it is full of Satan, Satan, worshipping, resilience, Jewish bankers. Who do they can be gold me bags of gold now has another bag of gold spread your lies to throw people off the truth? And all they asked was for me. Not to tell you guys about a fuck gut. Dammit. Hey, Joe, we're going to raise the last few minutes per the explicit instructions of my new world, order masters Heller Safina. The trilateral commission just mentioned them who are they? They're a non-governmental discussion group aka think tank of sorts founded by David Rockefeller, oh Rockefellers in July nineteen Seventy-three to foster cooperation between Japan, western Europe, North America. They had their first biannual meeting in October of nineteen Seventy-three in in Tokyo. When David Rockefeller proved his loyalty to the Japanese new world order elite by eating a white Christian baby in front of his master's while pissing on an American flag draped over a few more babies while being Ainley penetrated by a train of ten international Jewish bankers. New world order now, they really have their first meeting in Tokyo, David Rockefeller, was a powerful US banker who died in two thousand seventeen the age of one a one he should have died seventy-one, but he lived often infusion of ripped Ilian DNA for another thirty years. His fortunes were estimated over three billion dollars at the time of his death. He also graduated cum laude from Harvard. Nineteen thirty six wants data. JFK sister. Kathleen studied economics London School of economic economics and got a PHD from the university of Chicago nineteen forty worked for the US military intelligence offices and World War Two. He was a CEO of Chase Manhattan. Bank from nineteen sixty nine thousand nine hundred eighty family owns chase men Chase Manhattan Bank. Chase Bank Rockefeller family initially made its money petroleum in the nineteenth century. John. D Rockefeller Rockefeller senior the patriarch. John D Rockefeller, jR require chase Bank. And they've been one of the wealthy families in America ever since. And they talk with people from other countries, they promote relationship. With other countries. And the only reason to do there. It is to form a new world order wakeup cheapo. And Gary Allen author of call conspiracy the book again that Alex Jones is a teenager that would form his mind. He also, right. The Rockefeller file seven nineteen Seventy-six all about the Rockefellers conspiring with international bankers to manipulate the world Connie's and rule the world new world order. Okay. Your earlier nineteen seventy five the chaos of the aluminum is spreading Robert Anton Wilson that anarchist playboy rider and another playboy, right? Robert shaye. Right. The illuminaries trilogy in nineteen seventy five which attempts or attributes excuse me cover-ups of our times. Great like the like, the JFK station to the aluminum the books. Become such a surprise cult success that they're made into a successful stage. Play in Liverpool. Now, it's one of the world's most popular theories. Now, even celebrities like Jay z and beyond say take on their luminosity symbolism, a nineteen seventy eight William Luther Pierce, publishers the Turner diaries, vivid racist, novel about the two thousand ninety nine uprising excuse me. The downtrodden organization a white Revolutionary Movement against the all powerful system. The left wing Jewish government the book which begins with the passage of gun control legislation. Becomes a holy text of the paranoid racist. Kind of very far outright Pierce was inspired by fear that the new world. Order establishment would act I to confiscate the weapons of those who might resist the takeover nine hundred eighty three. Former air force officer academic text Mars, and his wife, Wanda publish a perfect name. For your pet start harmless. I many books they would write to help readers and their careers and personal lives than by the late eighties and early nineties things start to fucking take. Some turns Mars begins exposing the nefarious ways. In which the political establishment is beholden to an anti. Christ say, Newt Gingrich is a closet Marxist and a member of the occult secret society known as the behin grove told to report or nineteen Ninety-six was simple, Hemu and growth. Well, every July some of the richest most powerful men in the world gathered a twenty seven hundred acre compound and Monte Rio California for two weeks. Heavy drinking super secret talks rituals druid like worship prominent business. Leaders of. Former US presidents musicians oil baron's more have met under the guideline of weaving spiders, come not here, which means business deals spill left outside. But they're not always let that side. One exception nineteen forty two planners of the Manhattan project took the planning of the Manhattan project took place at the grove, which led to the creation of the atomic bomb. A new world order believer. Alex Jones infiltrated grow with a cameraman in two thousand and captured footage of guys wearing costumes talking about nature. Was it looks to me like just summer camp for the wealthy and powerful syncing a pattern here whenever rich and powerful people meeting secret, especially if they meet with an international audience, it all feeds the new world order conspiracy on March six nine hundred ninety one president George H W Bush gives a speech to congress detailing the possibilities for global cooperation and internationalism in a post Cold War world, and his speech includes a very poor choice of words words, he says, we can see a new world coming into view a world in which there is a very real prospect of a new world order fuck and alarm bells going off hide in plain sight that aluminum motherfucker Selma's to the globalist. It's all there. Bush's words authorized variety fears, including that one world government overseeing by the United Nations close at the Cold War introduces a new panic. The new new rule order, you know, announced by globalization and NAFTA style borderless snus is now coming into focus. It's tied to the UN a nineteen Ninety-one, Pat Robertson publishes, the new world order and crams litany villains. Freemasons Wall Street, of course, the council on foreign relations new age mystics into New York Times bestseller in one thousand nine hundred to about NAFTA's effects on national sovereignty course through operation vampire killer two thousand is author a former Arizona police origin named Jack mclamb will found an organization called police and military against the new world order. He's taken a death far mclamb vampires or metaphorical, you know, the enemy is anyone who seeks to weaken our national borders. They the globalist. He said have stated that the date of termination of the American way of life is the year two thousand Y two K. Could it didn't happen. I was just talking to white UK this. Thursday on the secret suck when I spoke about Alex Jones, not trying to plug the secret suck a bunch. But there's so many parallels in this in this suck. I just talk about conspiracies way more there that I do here to segment called third. I'm David Ike and just discussed how has gone up in north central Idaho and ribbons in the mid nineteen ninety s and there was a lot of new world order shipping discussed lot of it revolved at that time around this Y, two K crazy shit was supposed to go down on New Year's day two thousand and it all revolved around this like this glitch that was supposed to it was like based on computers calendars, where the way remember it's they didn't account for which sounds ridiculous compete. Some people believe they didn't account for computers like rolling over to the year two thousand and when that happened, which is caused internal mayhem and computer, and basically it would shut everything down. So some weird glitch was shut everything down. And then everybody's financial assets that were tied down to the, you know, the web we're gonna go down. They're going to be frozen. And it was all part of this plan of the new world order to take things over that was you know. Like a liquid grids because you know, the the power system is tied to computers into computers tied to this glitch. So all the power's going to go off. Everything's going to get shutdown stores are going to be shut down. And that's when the new order to sweep in and take everybody over put everybody in these FEMA work Campsie slave camps zone. This plan laid out by books. Call you know, like like, none dare call it conspiracy. And and people got worried about it sounds crazy. But like my dad not trying to despair dad, I love my dad, but he got so wrapped up in this that he bought a bunch of gold was hiding it in the walls of our house. He basically invested in a bunch of gold and a bunch of guns in the mid ninety s so he could be ready to have gold to do transactions with golden always worked as currency. You know, when the when the fucking dollar crashes tied to the Y2._K shit, and and he can so he could buy food and resources and then lots of guns. So he could defend his food and resources from the fucking anarchy those going to happen in the and the UN peaceful in the new world order and all that shit. Yeah. So so that yeah. Crazy. I remember it's of people talking about supposedly there was u n troops hiding along the Canadian border, and they were gonna come down with their black helicopters, and it was the Bill to burgers and trilateral lists and all that kind of stuff, you know, all all based on new world order stuff. The Bilderberg is by the way. Their name comes up a lot with this. The Bilderberg meeting is an annual conference held since nineteen sixty four in the Netherlands named after the Bilderberg hotel in Oester bec- Netherlands, where the first meeting took place and the goal of the Bilderberg meeting stated by the organization to bolster a consensus around free market, western capitalism around the globe in two thousand one Dennis Healey. Bilderberg group founder did say to say we were striving for a one world government is exaggerated, but not wholly unfair. All this really lights up conspiracy. Believers he says those of us in Bilderberg felt we couldn't go on forever. Fighting one another for nothing and killing people and rendering millions homeless. So he felt that a single community throughout the world would be a good thing. Bilderberg is a way of bringing together politicians industrialists-financiers, journalists politician of people who aren't politicians we make a point of getting younger politicians who are obviously rising bringing them together with financiers and industrialists who offer them wise words, it increases the chances of having a sensible global policy, and then when a journalist working for the UK's guardian Jon Ronson asked a Dennis in two thousand one does going hope your career he said, oh, yes, you're new understanding of your new understanding of the world will certainly help your career and Johnson would sound like conspiracy. And then dentist said crap idiocy crap. I've never heard such crap that is the conspiracy. That is the world. It is the way things are done. And quite rightly, so, so, you know, done done he kind of admitted it one man admitted that, you know, his group would prefer that the world have a uniform capitalist government because he believes that would reduce warrant homelessness is that an admission of a conspiracy or just maybe maybe overly optimistic, but. But very logical thinking, I mean, the thing about what would one we talked about if if it was one government controlling all of that. Would that have happened? I mean, possibly not on November thirtieth nineteen Ninety-three President Bill Clinton signs the Brady handgun violence Prevention Act as everyone knows by now, especially after government siege on Ruby Ridge and Waco gun control, the first step towards a one world government from hundred ninety three to two thousand to sound silly. But the X files is out there, and it gives generation the gift of extreme skepticism. Right because the most compelling storylines in the x files one about UFO's, what about cryptos it was about the with the smoking man, and you know, about this this secret shadow government conspiring with alliens to control the sole February twenty eighth nineteen ninety-five the headquarters of the new world order, aka Denver International airport opens. This is a true rumor, and it comes from airport designers with a wicked sense of humor, the airport city and county planners, clearly either freemasons or people who like to joke about Freeman conspiracies they chose to dedicate the airport on March nineteenth nineteen ninety four. And if you had it the numbers in. That the nine thousand nine hundred ninety four one nine one nine nine four you get thirty three by the highest level in freemasonry, those important number and freemasonry time capsule and plaques placed around the airport include masonic symbols, they credit the new world airport commission. Hilarious it's action on some plaques. The airports website fly. Denver dot com has a section called a Denver files about conspiracies it addresses the airport building kospi being more expensive than originally thought. And blaming that on they didn't account for the construction of luminosity headquarters. So are they just joking around or the hiding the truth in plain sight, wakeup Shapal? They mock you stand up to your billion masters dig dig dig beneath the Denver airport, you find the truth, actually, how great would it be restored? But I do who gets arrested for digging a tunnel under the Denver airport to find the lizards two years to the day after the end of the Waco siege. On April nineteenth nineteen ninety-five. Timothy McVeigh new world order believer who actually gone and watched the standoff in Waco between the the Branch Davidians and the federal authorities. He. And his conspirators detonated truck bomb outside. The Alfred f Murrah federal building Oklahoma City and innocuous bureaucratic building that McVeigh weaned on pro-militia literature takes to be an expression of torrential governmental overreach. The blast kills one hundred sixty eight people making it the bloodiest active homegrown terrorism up until that point US history. He does that to try and kick start a in W O revolution. November twenty first nineteen ninety-five prodigy raps on a remix of LL. Cool J's, I shot you're saying luminosity want my mind, sold them, a body secret society trying to keep the ri- on me and W O paranoia. Infects hip hop throughout the nineties artists such as K R S one poor right to teachers Tang clan. To Bach reimagined, the anti establishment themes at the late eighties. You know with this new world order theme. On july. Seventh nineteen Ninety-six a break in the televised feed. Or there's a break this is televised feet. And then there's an ominous warning. And a lot of people's TV screens to says the following announcement has been paid for by the new world order. I actually saw this. When it came out. A brotherhood of renegade wrestler stage a hostile takeover the ring and world championship wrestling, launches the new world order one of the most accessible store lines in the sports history. So just Sunday Sunday Sunday brother, the new orders. Komen for you better. Call the Rothschilds RIC flair get your builder butter buddies down to the ring on Michael's until HOGAN radio maybe tip rather. But now, you asked us the new world order has risen and no one safe for my twenty four inch thoughts pressing you hook who toss you out of the ring brother with your against his brother, what do case. So you know, that happened can help myself how to do it again. Okay. July twenty two thousand one radio host Alex Jones, cues, the US government applaud and terrorism points to Osama bin Laden as demand they need in this or William phony system after the World Trade Center sours fall in September eleventh house Jones accuses the government of a cover-up who's an inside job. He gets taken off FM and AM waves and about seventy percent of his markets, and he points to this as proof that he was right? The new world orders. Trying to silence him February two thousand seven the Montana. House representatives issued a joint resolution standing against NAFTA superhighway a series of roads running from Canada through states to Mexico that represent the first step in the erosion of our borders and the establishment of the new world order. No such highway exists. Oh my gosh. Sorry about that. I just apparently the lizard trying to get me even though I had my phone to do not disturb shut the fuck up theory. That was weird got turned it completely off 'cause fucking lizards. Just send my phone going. Crazy. You know, trying to came in front of came from the truth. You guys how was that member happens? I have in my pocket every single episode. Jim you aluminum body. But anyway, notes no such highway exists. There's no plans to build the I don't know what the fuck in Montana. People were thinking about getting worried about this weird superhighway. I know people were thinking about it in Portland several years ago in a hotel shuttle. Lindsay, and I had our ears talked off by some crazy do talking about this new Reuter superhighway is going to cut the country and a half. He's talking about FEMA work camps. We'd better go. If we're gonna go east of the Mississippi anytime, you know, if you want to ever do that basically better do it soon because pretty soon be allowed to leave. Yeah. We never got not guy shuttle again, October thirteen two thousand eight British Prime Minister, Gordon Brown calls for a new Bretton Woods. So that the world's dominant economies might craft division for the global economy interpreting Brown's comments as a confession of n w end of Joos gives me FOX pundits, Sean Hannity later for proclaims that the conspiracy people have suggested this for years two thousand nine care. S one wraps. They put a black face on the new world order referring to the inauguration of President Barack Obama. He didn't want anybody think that just because you have a black president. Now doesn't mean the new world orders gun. You got stay woke January seven two thousand twelve New York magazine writes, Jay Z and beyond say welcomed their first child into their lives in an obvious not to the rip Killian overlords. They named their daughter blue born under await blue, excuse me was has been acronym. Born living under evil Ivy illuminates. The youngest Carter up sheep oil. I just that's pretty funny joke that they wrote there, and it let's more examples, but I think you get the picture now. I think you get the picture of how this conspiracy developing we all understand it. So let's hop out of today's time stuff timeline. Good job soda made. It back. Banning. Okay. So now, we know about the origins of the new world order. It can be traced back to freemasons the original Manati. You know, the Jewish bankers few powerful, Royal families. These Vatican gets mixed in sometimes. Yeah. The knights Templar. What's the common theme people being afraid of secret societies? And also a lot of Christopher momentus, you know, being afraid of Jewish secret societies not trying to self Christian time suckers. But the history is what it is. And also look at the comments section of under any major conspiracy. And there is a lot of devil talk. And so any bible quotes like so many? And I get it a big no no in Christian fundamentalism is idolatry worship of false idols because the Catholic church has prayer candles and images of saints in the Virgin Mary. These are considered by many to be idols and who wants you to worship idols the devil. So what are people meeting in secret and performing rituals doing or should being the devil? But I but again to be clear, it's not just Christian. Fundamentalists? There is an inherent distrust amongst the poor also and many of the uneducated towards the rich and the educated how why do they get to be rich? What what are they doing in their fancy having their fancy getaways? Why do they get to you know, growth, you know? And why do they get to do all that stuff? It had their Bilderberg meetings. Now, they they must be fucking making secret. They're they're doing some stuff in secret. That's why the rich and powerful. They're making deals who are they making deals with people from other nations trying to sell us out. And then you know, you mix in two hundred plus years a conspiracy literature, and it all it all adds up to create just a big rabbit hole for someone to get lost in. And now, it's the web. It's it's easier than ever to get to get lost for FOX thousands of hours. You know, the never ending discussion of this stuff. You know, where people can just continually throw out more evidence and added mythology offer more proof, you know, for others to read or watch. Now's hasn't fun with all this proof because there was a lot of funds out there for you know, again, a special a special edition Reverend. Dr Joe pays. To be here for today's idiots of the internet. The internet. All right. Today's video Joe. And I'll give you talk about introduced him and second is the new world order a six thousand year history uploaded by UFO TV. So he knows going to be good. Yes. That is closure network on October second two thousand thirteen four million four hundred sixty five thousand two hundred and twenty nine views as of November thirteenth two thousand eighteen over twenty five thousand likes six hundred dislikes and over sixty three hundred comments say easily look into a lot of them ninety five percent. Plus are very pro and W O, and that they think the N W is for sure real and that you're an idiot. If you don't open your eyes and see the truth and descriptions video is now presenting a detailed and complete six thousand year history of the new world order in the aluminum body includes the history of the secret societies ancient believes in the matrix of control that has shaped human history for thousands of years. Also includes for the first time a documented history of the true birth of the illuminated finally it's affected on the world today. Day. And and welcome everybody. You're listening. We got this on videos. Well, as Louis tell motherfucking Paisley's right here right here. How set next to each other high? And yeah, many of you who listen regularly. Obviously, you know that Joe does the he produces the show does the sound. And and sometime next year, we're going to be doing our own show together. I know looking forward to we're wrapping up stuff on the app you. Everything's tied up. You know, we're not gonna jump the gun, but can think short up or already brainstorming show. I didn't want to give name ways. I don't want someone to take it. And don't do it. Don't don't take your name. Don't put your mouth out there. But it words, but he'll it'll be it'll be a much more beefed out version of the to the internet segment because I always envisioned it as being more fun with another person. Joe's a funny, dude smart, dude. And you and I haven't talking all week about this episode about you raise Idaho's well. Yeah. And just this conspiratorial kind of way of thinking, and I like what you were saying earlier before we get into the comments about who who who like who do you know in your life? That's really good at keeping secrets. Yeah. I mean, maybe a person. But when the secret. Has to do with world domination. Right. I don't know anybody that can keep that secret, right alone. You know, if you look at it in if you're trying to plan a surprise birthday party, right? You're going to have a difficult time. Yes. Someone even that under wraps a lot of times it gets fucked up. Oh, I what did I do? I did that a couple of years ago not used to secret parties, and it was for my mom, and I fucked it up and all I had to do was just not mention it. And I was like I remember like my sister Lindsay. And and then I just I just completely forgot just asked my mom like, so what do you want to do for your party? And then my sister shot me like are. You fucking kidding me? Look God damn dad, and I was like, you know, like an Christmas Christmas. I switched it. Luckily, she didn't pick up like I switched it. But I mean, she had told I think there was maybe eight of us tops who knew about this. And we only had to keep a secret for two weeks. And I blew it. Then I it's hard to do. It's hard to keep secret because you talk about stuff, and then when you have to. How many hundreds of thousands? I mean, what's what's the elite count? Do. They there isn't one assume. No, no. So how many people are part of the ring, right? You can draw the parallels between that and the flatter theory. Where right they think every government along with every space age and every employee. Yeah. Is just keeping it under wraps to trick. Everybody. Right. Right. Everybody is in on it. Right. There's no fucking way. Somebody's going to blow it and like, and like the flat earth, you brought up the new world order conspiracy is similar in the sense that you know, not all flatter authors. Agree on what the flat of the conspiracy. It's yeah. There's a lot of disagreement over like who's trying to trick us why they're trying to trick us what the trick actually is how the flat earth work scientifically same with the new world order. It's like some people believe it's like these agents of of Satan, somebody will leave its aliens. Some people believe is like the UN combinations of those comment. And usually I think like when it's that murky when there's that many different versions that alone. Also is like come on doesn't like why is it that much disagreement? If it's real I picture the street signs situation like in a wizard of Oz type, right? It's just a thousand different era. Pointing a thousand different directions. Yeah. And you get to pick which one goes there. And if you have enough different directions, right, then you can never be wrong right amount of reasons, why could still, you know, games go, and they shut down. They struck down one St. got all these other reasons that it's happening. And that's why and that's why these conspiracies will never go away because you know, they're fun to talk about them. Like a lot of the new world order believers prior to the year two thousand is I talked already, you know, y two k was supposed to be the date them a lot of people in print predicted. Here's on the takeover going to happen. And then what is always amazing to me with these things is like the next day. No one's no one's out there. Like oh. I the trick is again, they doubt. Because because when when it's a secret. That was funny. This is secret group that no because he find the canned food business, right? Have planned the two K? I think I read about that one. Yeah. That that was their whole push. Everybody had to find nonperishable foods like genius. Was that? I believe in I believe in like a business trying to exploited paranoia to make a lot of money. They'll believe in. But it is interesting like what the secret group like this. You never get to disprove it. It's an which parallels religious thinking, you never get his prove anyone's got you never get to this prove a secret organization that the nature of it. Is that a secret like this? We don't get it because shadows dude makes sense. Yeah. Because it's secret is supposed to make sense if that it wouldn't be secret. Okay. So I wanted to I wanted to do something different on this one. Usually, as you know, listen to show, I kind of cherry pick around and his mind random comments, but I wanted to give the tone of this. So I swear to you. I mean, I guess, you know, people could look look at this video themselves. I gave the name of it and everything ready. I just went through the first I believe it was twenty. There was was gonna do ten opened up to twenty. No, fifteen comments. Okay. Found a happy medium. Yeah. Found a happy medium kind. Let me see. Okay. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. I guess we'll find out here. Because I I wrote my. Oh, it's on. I change my mind. But anyway, all these are sequential. These are just the first ones I saw not just picking so starts off with Jane JT user JT who says so basically if we stopped using money their power would cease sure, we might be a little uncomfortable for Lyle. But it is definitely possible to live without money. If we all did it, we'll take away their power. There's actually enough resources and combined skills for everyone on this planet to live comfortably. I love fucking idiot solutions like this where some guy just you know, spitball, and it's like why is hey, man. Hey, why don't we stop using money? And just you know, barter a grabs won't you? Grab an axe in the woods. Right. Put in the fireplace. Right. You you being comfortable? Do it. You're going to be warm. Go kill an animal. You dumb shit. Oh shit. We're going to be fine. All of us. Everybody hates this does not fucking working in. And that's the the grand scheme of the doctor. See here, right? Is that he's looking at it such a on a local level, right? Like, he's looking at his friends and family stop spending money. Can you imagine? If everyone all the way. Everybody just stopped spending his side's bucket, right? Who wants a for coat all trade you for a pancake? And if you're living in New York City or San Francisco, it's like, there's not enough people don't know enough hunters. No, no, no barter for food and all that kind of stuff and like to make clothing, and it's like, we don't have those skills anymore, and since we lost like an in our country, specifically all our manufacturing base, or there's a large portion of it. We don't have the skills do that stuff anymore. You just like. Like best case scenario, a small group of people in an area like ours. Northern Idaho would be able to kind of scavenge together a shitty life and some cabin with no electricity or running water and live on just fucking deer venison. And I don't even know the bills. Vegetables expansion of skills. Right. That money allows for for humans to expand upon right? Like what you can do and still be a part of of society and still specialized stay old. Yeah. But if you take that away. Yeah. You're going to be a fucking butcher blacksmith hunt. Right. We're going to pop out kids. Yeah. That goes to your options because that's you can't focus your effort everywhere else writings and we've gotten so far removed that I mean, we wouldn't last. No where it's like if you if if JT got to have his way. Four hundred years ago three or four years ago. Maybe even I don't know maybe one hundred fifty years ago, some people will be okay because people used to live that way kind. Yeah. But even like even old time fucking pioneers, still go to a trading post and stock up on flower stuff. It's like they were doing all of the skills. I think if you if you pull the money out and get people that miserable bad that is actually a better step for the new world order like that got you by the balls even more right because you just purposely put yourself into shit, then I survive. Yeah. That'd be that'd be what they want. If they shut down the money, and we're like, all right? If you want your money back, and you want your power turned back on you got to be part of the new. Yeah. Come on get ya. Complete redemption again. Now, you can't. But if I come back real life can come back. All right. Don't do it for the new world order k do. I'll do. Thanks, jane. Thanks K. So second post is John shuck, and John Paul's everything leads back to Lucifer the bible is the only book that makes sense, and I never wanna pick on religious listeners. But I just glancing through fifty percent. There's a lot of the comments in this one are of that ilk of talking about of how this is is is aimed for granted. Yeah. But what they say plenty of reminder like Armageddon apocalyptic type thinking where it's like every generation has all these people, and you can see it all over the web. Now. It's like this is it and times are here. No asshole. Everyone has been saying that or not everyone of in wackadoo goals have been screaming that every generation for almost two thousand years. And I always they're always wrong. Yeah. They're always wrong. You picture you picture the progression of of the I'm. A blank on the on the name of the book for everyone is a number. That's talk about. Okay. And you can that has happened forever. Onto the beach is going to be. Yes. Yes. So everyone is just defined by a number. Right. And so I it was Bank accounts. Right. And it was phone numbers tonight that it was credit card. Yeah. Maybe maybe I can't remember, but yeah. One of those in in in credit cards, and then you talk about the chip in plants. It's every volving. But the the the fact of the matter is identifying by number is just how you can sort shit. Right. There's a lot of most efficient way. Then you you've had associates security number tied to your name for how long right? I mean. So you can find other ways to progress it and tied into the bible, right? Because it does have there's it's such a blankets. They meant you can find a way to tie everything into it. I just like what a weird way to live just to be like it's coming common. Just like like, waking up everyday angry the devil isn't here yet to kick. Start the Armageddon it'll bring back. He's it's like you guys this fucking. Got these fucking guzzler go after locust buzzing around in canned corn, grains, my wife fame, akin to be all I have left arm. Again. I got this bunker, full awesome shit. I've been waiting to use it. Come on by fleas. Okay. Next post is hurt was buck show. Dada. People just make up as weird, but says shameful no conscious. No morals. No, guilt, occult secrecy. But like secret Cy the spelling. I was correct is I read these he blew it. He he's blown a lot more. It's a lot of these words a cult secrecy. Oh, how a tangled web? They weave when they practice to deceive. I wonder what would happen. If all humanity stopped buying stopped paying their taxes and put their foot down land their middle finger up if the whole of humanity. Did this all together? It would be financial disaster. True, these corrupt our organizations are nothing without humanity humanity, always holds the power. This guy really went on for a while. He he let it go. The day. We realize this is the day the occult order will crumble for they think they have us mentality and physically with humanities hands tied behind their back. This has gone on too long and secrecy is hiding high secrecy expose all of this. It's awful. Yeah. Hiding everything from humanity. But no longer if humanity really knew really knew these places would have been burned down if there was real Justice in these world, these organizations would have been thrown in prison for absolutely everything in law book, if you guys are charged with everything only law was used correctly and not rewritten again again. So this corruption goes on this is not the vision. God intended for children. It is the world has become so corrupt by man's greed. It is too corrupt it, oh it is too corrupt to save. He doesn't he's not freaking on his twos. The or any of this day? This is wiped away from this world will be the day darkness shall leave this world. It's sick. It's me how much you Mandy has suffered because of these corrupt evil corporations JFK. Look at that. Segue. I I just like what he did here. JFK Kennedy the case for fucking Kennedy. It's people say rest in peace like within rip obese red ribbon piece. JFK Kennedy was trying to straight up with to be straight up with humanity. And they silenced him for good humanity was meant to live in the light not in the darkness. But I believe in God's wisdom. They will be able to Cordingley to their deeds. It is a matter of time land, no time, and people are waking up more and more. They're corruption and Justice will be done in favor for humanities suffering by thanks box show for that. Whatever the fuck that was oh that hurt that hurt to look at so much of this on the comments on the on the web to where it's like man, maybe spend a little more time, you know, getting like a like a sixth grade equivalent education as far as knowing how to write like my daughter can right. So much more eloquent like this in the fifth grade like the, you know, come on. On like you. Can you can understand the wrong ten they're right in your the constant, but just organizations right and the key in the commerce and writings run together like that. And when you tie it to the message where it's like this person. And you know, there's no way that says that's like a dick. But like they're clearly very uneducated, which is why they think shit like this because they're being held down because they're being held down by the the illuminate fucking kicked him out of school in eighth grade took away pencils took the valley. Fucking one day. He had a best pencil a number two, very sharp, solid mechanical MacOS. Oh, yeah. Okay. Even better get a mechanical pencil. It was his favorite thing in the world. All he wanted to learn and then some lizard overlord. Gimmie dat. He can't do it again. We'll be done forever. Crazy. Oh, next one fourth post by j door de Yeshua. I've never seen it spilled that way not like y'all way. But whatever that's a weird spelling, maybe I'm just don't know why ES HUA, and then parenthetical Jesus Christ is the way to the truth and the life. Okay. So another one those v by Beverly Brown. It is so sad. That people do not read the bible tells mankind. The new world orders coming in the book revelation six post by four Jesus for eternity. They do not finance wars. They steal taxpayer money to create wars. Okay. I mean, people don't know me yet. But I mean, I, I'm Catholic. Okay. Yeah. And I have been, you know, have my my my special middle names. Lindsay does to have all that. But if you look at what she just wrote Jesus for trinity. They do not finance wars. They still taxpayers money create wars by. I mean, you could say that you just you just described religion. Oh, right. Right. Right or. Yeah. A lot of big thing. You know that right? Create wars to benefit themselves. New talked a little bit about earlier on. Yeah. And so well that that out in my mind when you read that it's like don't talk about starting wars. Oh against when you're yes. Because the Catholic religious fund a lot of wars as have other people or people have used the guys of religion too. And I do think with this kind of thoughts. I mean, I do believe that governments do shitty things to start wars that benefit the people in power the the benefit their corporations, you know, like, I was one of those people with like the Gulf war where it's like Cheney and Halliburton I was like can convenient. You know, the the hardy administration the declares his or and then the corporation what you're the CEO, I believe or, you know, one of the heads of if not the head, I think gets to benefit greatly from government contracts. I won't go so far as to say like all of this was manufactured to create that to happen. But went, but there people are opportunists just in general, you know, like that. And if and if you were given. Financial incentive to like. All right. Well, we don't like these people. Anyway, they are doing bad stuff. And if we declare war, you'll make a billion dollars. I think almost everybody would rationalize at that point. Okay. I'm sounds fun. I mean, they're bad, right? Yeah. Okay. Okay. Able Balkan let's do their situations that lend if you're in a place of power, I guess, it'd be difficult to just say, no, yeah. Yeah. So I sometimes I think that conspiracy put unrealistic expectations on other humans who are in charge of stuff where it's like a lot of the people, you know, throwing the conspiracies around like they were in charge would do a lot of the same things that they point to is like, yeah. This new world order now human nature reminds me one of my favorite sayings. Which is you know, money's the root of all evil. Yeah. True, something poor people say. Who said that? I know I I don't know where I've been saying I feel like since I was a teenager. I heard somewhere I heard of something something for people said some stand up, I think some comic. Nice. What? Yeah. Because I think it wasn't come. It was Daniel tasha somebody maybe. But but yes, I think there's a lot of truth there too. Because you know, like, you don't know until you're until you're there. Okay. Until you have it. Yeah. You hate them. Right. Right. All right. Yeah. And that's I think I think I bring this up later and say episode, but it's like when people just yeah. Are they never get to be around people with money like I'm not wealthy. But I have worked with a lot of comics who are wealthy because attitudes like, well, the new world order won't let you succeed. But I've met people ten fifteen years ago who were just the same as me traveling comic, you know, paying their bills who now are fucking millionaires. Yeah. And I'm like, no, no, they didn't hold him back. It happened. They found a way out way. How did they do it? If they well, they they gave him they had a baby, and they let one of the lizards eat it classic classic drugs. Classic gateway move a seven post by firms and governments of the biggest serial killers since recorded history. I I've seen variations that all the way it always kind of like. Shot up. Okay. It's like yes wars are started. But that's different than fucking Dahmer trying to make sex obvious feel like yes. Deference because of what because of nations fighting and wars have been manipulated. But okay, straight up like Cyril killer that comparison. Yeah. Thing too shocked by his aides post by Richard Picone. Who says we didn't listen to Eisenhower ninety fifty one or Kennedy nine hundred sixty one or Nixon in hundred seventy one now to bring everyone up. I did do research on this. Okay. Just to get the facts because I was like what does this do talking about? I figured he's talking about the military industrial complex Eisenhower. He's got the dates a little wrong. So I think of course, but he knows dude listen to nine hundred sixty one or seventy nineteen seventy two and then not nine fifty one in nineteen sixty Eisenhower gave his farewell address on January seventeenth, and he warned us about the military industrial complex, which I do love this speech. He said until the latest of our world conflicts United States had no armor. Industry. Right. And and this is coming what a decade and a half. After almost World War Two American makers of Plowshares could with time and has required make swords as well. But we can no longer risk emergency improvisation of national defense. We have been compelled to create a permanent armaments industry vast. Proportions added to this three and a half million men and women are directly engaged in the defense establishment. This is a military, dude. Eisenhower career military, we annually spend on military security alone, more than the net income of all United States corporations. Now, this conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience, the total influence economic political. Even spiritual is felt in every city every statehouse. Every office of the federal government we recognize the imperative need for this development yet we must not fail to comprehend. His grave implications are toil resources and livelihood are all involved. So as the very structure of our society in the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence whether sought. Or unsought by the military industrial complex. So you know, he's warning about don't give in to this big complex that can then dictate like wars going forward because because his weapons we gotta use them. You know is. So he's yes, he he did warn about the military industrial complex, which I am wary of moments, and then JFK a few months later, April twenty-seventh nineteen-sixty once we had that year right address. The press spokesman American newspaper sociation at the Waldorf story that hotel New York, and he said, the very word secrecy is repugnant in a free and open society. And we are as a people inherently in historically opposed to secret societies to secret oaths into secret proceedings. We decided long ago that the dangers of excessive and unwarranted concealment of pertinent facts far outweighed dangerous, which are cited to justify it. He ends with with our help man will be what he was born to be free and independent now he was addressing press. And he was just saying like we have we're not going to keep information from you because that's important but conspiracy. Thinkers say like see he was referencing the aluminum sure because he talked about secret societies side note. Yeah. Has nothing to do with anything the last leg of that script. Yeah. Miranda. My band uses the open up one of our tracks on our album serious. It's fucking awesome. Man. I know so, you know, looking at that in context, it's cool. And the reason we used it is necessarily about it's not really about that. It's more about helping each other out and the huge divide. But there's so many wonderful catchphrases in that little speech. Yes. I just makes it so powerful the yeah. Yeah. If you've ever listened to it, you get it, and you go. Thank you know, it just it's JFK all powerful speech. He gets and I see why you could take that is like a huge like an hour. New manati? Exactly. Yeah. I do agree with his, you know, like, yeah. Don't don't have a government. Tell me all your secret. Tell me tell your secrets whereas my birthday party. In nineteen seventy-two, not seventy-one Nixon said at a toast to the Chinese government at the hall of people in Beijing, February twenty fifth he said, the great wall is no longer. An and this is he's addressing opening relations with China for trade and everything like canoe, Don of new era, and he says this great the great wall is no longer a wall dividing China from the rest of the world. But it is a reminder of the fact that there are so many. There are many walls still existing in the world, which divide nations and peoples. The great wall is also a reminder that for generation there has been a wall between the People's Republic of China and the United States of America and these past four days, we have begun the process of removing the wall between us we begin the talks recognizing that we have great differences, but we are determined that those differences not prevents from living together in peace, you believe deeply in your system. And we believe just as deeply in our system. It is not our common beliefs that have brought us together here, but our common interests, and our common hopes the interest at each of us has to maintain our independence and the security of our peoples and the hope that each of us has to Bill. A new world order. Ooh. In which nations and peoples with different systems and different values can live together in peace respecting one another while disagreeing with one another. But in history, rather than the battlefield be the judge of their different ideas. So, you know, he just saying like, yeah, we're gonna start working together. That's the new world order is. We didn't like work. You could have your culture, we'd have hours, and it, and it is interesting. I see this all the fucking time on the special and talk about the secret suck and this third. I've I've stuff these conspiracy people they will throw out things as if they are fact, you know, just a little headache warned us about this exactly in ding, ding, ding. And it'll be no they they meant they reference phrases that you're using. Yeah. And year similar to what you're saying. Nice words that you like, right? Nice words that you like the you have shoehorned into your own paranoid narrative. Yeah. That happens all the time. David Ikin, his speeches. I've looked researched. It he will take somebody's quotes. But it'll be one part will be something. They said like in nineteen sixty three. And then another part would be something they said in like nineteen seventy eight and a third part in one thousand eighty two he will Franken sign all of them together. In one phrase completely out of context that pushes a narrative that that person saying all those three things never meant to be compiled. Well, that's that's what they were saying they were just waiting for the right mind to David altogether for fucking. They were thrown out breadcrumbs. Yeah. Like, they're scared to say it out, right? Because the lizards I'm gonna say something else in five years. It goes and pay attention it right here. The squint your eyes see the truth. But I'm together. That's what I thought. Dots. Wake-up cheap cheapo. Come on ninth post, nocona Wilson, everything is ally. All these years. All right. You watch one fucking YouTube video. He's right. She's right. Yeah. All you guys everything. I wish right now, I can just rip off my own face and reveal the lizard headed back. We'll get the budget for that. Okay. Eventually ten post by Mark Lueders, and what kind of sick world. Do we live ho nam? Let's how many exclamation point three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven and no question marks no eleven exclamation points in what kind of world. Do we live would be a question asked him? What can I say we live in his a just a new kind of phrase, and we'll. Running by making football game. No answer needed. Not just state statement. He's just letting you know what? Eleven posed by Sarah Thomas, the world is so wicked and the elite so secretive and fooling the masses whilst dabbling in the coal guessing cult and yet ACS scream there. There's no God. What a frustrating in wretched world. Now that person would be fucking fun to hang out with or she's mad at you for not waking up and smelling the Satan. Why can't you know? He's all around us your head out come on wake up. It's unreal. Unreal. Amman twelve post by Lee Rodriguez, notice that all presidents that went against the end w or abo were killed okay dominant and JFK was one who stood up for the real USA. Amen to those who honor the Lord Jesus Christ by they always have to throw in that thing at the end. And I love notice that all presidents that went against he doesn't name him. No, just all of them. He knows. Hey, guys. Just want to remind you remember all the president who stood up against new world order, all we're all kale all the they've died. Yeah. They were they got it. And I guarantee if you've. Met that guy in real life. You know, which ones Li all home Lincoln all of them. But no. But specifically which present oh shoot. He start naming presence and weren't even presents. He'd be like Franklin. Franklin Benjamin Franklin Benjamin Franklin the key. He did the key on the kite. The kite president. President Jordan present Jordan, Michael president, Michael Jordan, but he's still alive and wasn't present. He plays. He was replaced by lizard to catch up with a lizard legs. Come on, dude. Waco on thirteenth post by Martin Williams, fifteen minutes in and so much information. So that's the first thing. That's like what the fuck you guys. Which by the way, if you watch the video. Yeah. Just by the logo at the beginning, or you know, what you're in for that. Yeah. Not that late eighties and early nineties like just found out how to make three d thing. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you made one that's that's good who UFO, and this was my favorite one in the first twenty fourteen post car key with a fucking my doing here at one AM, and this she does get an interested. I've permit interesting actually, I searched for NWEA linked with WWE. So he wanted the broiler come on Sunday Sunday Sunday on. I've spent nearly over an hour. Oh god. Help me. I've been there. And I I have to I. Yeah. Like live. I wasted this much time. Let's just looking just looking at a fixed, my dishwasher, I love trying to go to bed, and I'm like, oh just gonna check some. I dunno some sport highlights and then two hours later, I'm just on this fucking deep weird place with the new world. Order lizards looking to have some some some sports highlights. And then before you know, it you're in a fantasy league. And you're in the middle of a draft. I how do I wave? How do I waste on man? Finally. Okay. So I did fifteen fifteen posts by George Michael who says this is real history. There you go. He said true. That's real history. Thank you. If you want real history, you go to UFO TV, just by the. But that brand you like this is the real shit. You invite I've been what have I been doing more fake news here? This is it you have t- they have a team of investigative journalists sharing Cheetos. In the dander St.. Just in my best interest in the in the video itself has about seventeen ads play inside of it. Yeah. There was a lot of people mad about the atmosphere. There were so many ads. Actually that comes up and one of these comments here because these doesn't use your ones, I thought user cocoa Portelli post liars. It is not a new rule to order is a Jewish world. Order nothing else. Wake up people. So I just wanted to illustrate there were a lot of those Redick deeper. It all comes back to things I was talking earlier use your Graham Hughes post. My only question would be when we are in this new world order with one Bank and one government. Then how will they continue to make money from wars that supposedly won't then exist and this one does stumped all the people. They're like, yeah. But they control us like no one can answer the question. Yeah. But now they have us over Dover. But we have what about the fuckin- money. 'cause in that video. There's all this talk about how you know. Like, the goes back, the Rotschild European families about manipulating countries into war. And that's how they make all their money. And I just love when someone introduces like reason like, yeah. But then there will be no more war. If we're on the same team gathered the nets. Okay. But listen, that's when they thought that when they've won. One. Don't you get what are the what they want money? What do they win? They have what they won the winning thing. They don't need. They don't need the money. They have all the money. Have it all they have all the money? They're going to need more. Fuck out your Kevin. I love all the logic. Like when they go back to the feds Federal Reserve. They're always talking about like. Yeah. But just no this money. And then they'll also about how the part of the new word new world order in the in the basic, goals control and all the money. What I'm like, let me get straight. They print all the money. So they could that's unlimited. They've already there. They they have all the fucking money. They did it but used to. Okay. All right fair enough enough. Good point, and then user, okay? This is regarding the commercial use Tommy Allen post fifteen commercials. I don't ever come it. But I feel like someone don't want people to watch this. Or is it just me? He's twisted. The commercials into the new world order. Just brand fucked me as I was reading it. I was like, oh, yeah. I give a what right. I love how you can take anything because the obvious thing to me is this UFO TV are exploding exploiting people's paranoia to make a lot of YouTube revenue mega bunch of money. He's seventeen ads or whatever. Fifteen ads in a video. It gets over four million views you're gonna make some good goin-. But he twists that into like. They're trying to make people not watch it because you know, commercials are the most effective way to shut down a fucking video. And it sounds the fucking aluminum body. Tell me Allen, my new favorite new favorite idiot of today. I like that just two more here. Two more. To ten sub posts it, all I love this all started. When that Lincoln theater guy pulled the trigger and killed Lincoln. It's actually John Wilkes booth killed Lincoln in the Ford theater. I love he just knows he knows. It involves a word Lincoln. That someone pulled the trigger. And that's all he knows and location. It was in a theater he knows it was the theater, and he knows the word Lincoln and knows involved murder. He's like he was texting history glass, and that's just kinda what made it. Hush is someone who's a makes the hat who's the Haggai who's someone shot the go. Who was in charge of stuff in that one theater? And what a weird president who associate with the new world order, the guy who afraid a lot of people. He's part of the suppression. You fucking talking. Well, just when you put it together with the commercials, then it makes sense. It was during the commercials at the theater. Took his Big Hat off. And the last one user Kelly Harley just I felt like gave me a nice place to end this on just which is thought I love the statement. She posted people in the future will look back at this era as the golden age of bullocks who so true. It is true. This we are in the golden age of fucking nonsense lackadaisical nece to our credit. Yes. We just got the internet. Right. So we haven't had that long. We've just got it. It's fun. It's still shiny new toy it is. How are we going to? How are we going to use this power right now? We're still figuring that out. Right. Fucking whatever. I want to do it this and Joe, and I are going to use it to mock a lot more suffo- sometime next year, man, we're gonna we're gonna take away pass you to take it into yelp. And social media posts make fun of ourselves. And and do it because it is. It is good. I think just to constantly talk about this stuff because it is becoming so pervasive though, I feel like it's nice to have like to have. Like a weekly reminder like, hey, don't fucking think like this nice. There's other people out there. Like you who are knowing who are annoyed by the amount of disinformation and just era Ghent baloney cakes. And there's so many real problems. That's what I was thinking about stuff like this like what if all the people worried about the new world order what if they all came together and like volunteered took the time. They spend like Renton and railing about the new world order and volunteered for like some organization that helps end, you know, hunger or gives, you know, drinking water to people who don't have a works on vaccines for for third world countries where you know, easily treatable diseases people are still dying of like there's a lot of bad shit happening that you could help with. Yeah. But yes, why would you even try 'cause you're gonna put in a lot of work right to get it going, and then they're going to stop you fucking new. It never ever ends. But we're done. Thank you. Joe paisley days it is of the internet hoped. He liked it. The internet. All right. So so what have we learned really today? And again that was so fun big. Thanks to Joe motherfucking pays the Reverend Dr getting in here for some eighty to the internet. But we'll have we learned. I mean, many people live in an enchanted world and allow those people believe in conspiracies people who believe in non human entities, like the devil influencing wealthy and powerful people like Jewish international bankers. Do I believe in the new world order? No, not in the way that the conspiracy believers tend to believe another some cartoonish way where some the ferries force is gonna enslave population. You know, conspiracy theories remind me of doomsday prophesy, you know, where a lot of that Armageddon is coming talk. And in as we said, there's a lot of that in the thread, you know, people have been predicting the end of the world for hundreds and hundreds of years as I talked about back in that Nostradamus suck. And those people have always been wrong. That's the thing they've always had income and they've been wrong every fucking time. You know, how many times is the anti Christ opposed to have shown up by certain. Date, you know, hundreds thousands. You know, how many times has the the anti Christ kicked off the apocalypse, you know, in in actuality zero zero times the new world order was supposed take things over in two thousand and nothing happened. You know, none dare call it treason that primary modern new world. Order tax published nineteen sixty four it's spilled out impending doom. It's come and quick. Well, fifty fifty four she's me years later. No doom more freedoms, we'd wasn't legal in any states. Back in nineteen sixty four. We still have air. Fifteen homosexuals have a lot more rights overall than they did in nineteen sixty four same sex marriage wasn't allowed anywhere in nineteen. Sixty four abortion was a felony in every state. So some to Terry government to just, you know, taking all of all of our rights will the opposite has happened the aluminum they want to take over the world in the seventeen eighty s and what did they take over not a damn thing? But conspiracy theories will tell you it's all because it's been done in secret. Right. They are doing things in secret. Some kind of things they just they're not sure what you know, the comments to several videos and. A lot of talk about how you can't get out of debt. You know, the aluminum just won't let you they've already taken everything they fix the economy against you. But like I was saying Jo, you know, where it's like now man, the people are becoming millionaires, you know, Alex Jones, the leading leading voices of this NWEA considering he's become a millionaire talking about people not being allowed to prosper leading new new world. Order voice, David Ike. He's a millionaire offer the same thing. I know several comments like I said before now millions. I went to school with middle class kickin. Zaka he actually dropped out after his freshman year ran into fifteen years later, millionaire started his own business kicking ass people breakthrough. All the fucking time. Do I think some people want a new world order? Yeah. I do. I mean that guy from the Bilderberg 'cause I mean, he did admit as much, you know, in many ways, theoretically could make life better. What if we did all come together as one people what if we all came together as unified species we could in theory, stop fighting each other? I'm not sure that's even in our nature. I'm not sure that's even possible. But what? What if it was what if we and war? What if you know, we we realize that that nationalism does lead to war the nationalism? We talked about last week's World War. One suck that attitude of our country is the best we deserve the most and your country sucks, and you can fuck die for all. I care. I mean that attitude has been around for a long time. That's led to a lot of worse. You know, a century after century. You know, what if just really educated people understand that? And they hold conferences to talk about that. And they keep their meeting secret. So so the the members can talk openly about these types of things without worrying about paranoid, darts nationalistic ignorant, kind of racist into the internet taking their coach at a context, and slander them. I don't know. I I guess I if I'm open to discussing the possibility of trying to bring about a new world order someday. What if it is better? But I think it's worth considering might not work by now work, but just is considering an idea just, you know, such a terrifying thing, I don't think so that's not what freedom is freedom. Is you know, isn't running around chanting USA USA love leave it. Now. It's about it's about asking tough questions. Like what what if there was a better way? And again, this is from somebody who I I'm not sure that I think one rule governed can't even work, and I also don't think that it will happen anywhere. Close to my lifetime too. Many people worldwide still too deeply rooted in historic rivalries, religious, dissension, nationalism, too, many people are phobic. But maybe someday, maybe someday, the world's only gonna get smaller, transportation and communication technology. Vance's? Maybe a new world order is inevitable know might take a hundred years of five hundred thousand might now work. What if it does what if someday a new world order a doesn't bring the anti Christ and enslavement of the world's poor. What if it brings the greatest period of peace of quality? And harmony the world has ever seen the the irony of that I'm rooting for that. And and before we move onto this the last couple segments. Just I do wanna say Christian listeners not trying to pick on the again this episode, and I do realize that the overwhelming majority of you, you know, are more frustrated I'm sure than I am by the comments. You know, like we talked about is the internet. And you know, just because you happen to worship the same guy. Doesn't mean you share a lot of the same beliefs. I get I get it. I get it. And and now it's time for today's top five takeaways time. By away. The origin of the new world. Order conspiracy is the real illuminate a group of freethinking Bavarian intellectuals. Led by Adam vice opt who did want to overthrow the world's governments. And also, it's religious leaders and start a new world. Order back in the seventeen seventies. In the seventeen eighty s number two another important piece of the origins of the new world. Order is the early twentieth. Century Russian antisemitic propaganda known as the protocols of the elders of Zion. I known to be circulated in one thousand nine three determined to be plagiarized few decades thereafter, but that didn't that didn't stop Hitler and Stalin from using it to turn their citizens against Jewish people and conspiracy still use it to feel believe in a Jewish international banker conspiracy with manipulating the world's economies from the shadows. Number three, playboy writer, Robert Anton Wilson stirred the illuminate pot in the nineteen sixties with his anarchist publishing of luminosity, conspiratorial, wheelings and dealings in playboy magazine in the variety of books, number four and nine. Nine hundred seventy two the conservative commentator, Gary Allen published. None dare call it conspiracy which extends existing counterculture paranoia extended. Existing counterculture paranoia about a shadow government to deficit spending basic banking offer tales of how organizations like the council on foreign relations and the trilateral commission carry for the economic economic excuse me agenda of an invisible global power elite and sold five million copies and embedded fear of the new world. Order into the American consciousness that remains to day number five new info, let's talk about a way to determine if something is a conspiracy or not we talked about counteracting in the very beginning of the episode counteracting conspiratorial thinking, I think the most important element of this. Maybe it's a autumn's razor, or if you've heard of outcomes razor before William of autumn's William. William was a fourteenth century English philosopher Franciscan friar, celebrated for developing the law parsimony better known today is autumn's razor, and according to the razor principle this philosophic principle. The simplest explanation for an event is almost always the best shave way any extraneous assumptions, and what you've got left is usually the truth. So the obvious answer is usually the truth is is what he talked about. And I and I like it. This is the exact opposite of conspiratorial type thinking like a applying outcomes razor to a few conspiracies just to kind of illustrate this. You know, like the birther conspiracy with Obama either Barack Obama was actually born in Hawaii or an international plot unfolded over multiple decades to conceal his Kenyan birthplace and install him in the presidency. Which of those is simple. He's fucking born Hawaii. You know, either vaccines are safe and effective or ever? Every major hospital in Health Organization in the entire world is part of covering up. The fact that they actually cause autism either. There is no new world order and the world is full of various politicians. Most of them were trying to run their country to the best of their abilities. Or there has been a lineage of secret rulers convincing a a long succession of world leaders to do their bidding and also fixing election after election after election. Manipulating many different nations into war manipulating the world's economy year after year after year, possibly worshiping demons or serving liens and engage in a massive satanic. Pedophile ring like pizza gate building secret fortresses. You know, like the one that is supposed to under the Denver airport, and maybe even working with aliens known as the grays and area fifty one and some type of X files scenario and keeping it all hush hush for centuries unable to be proven by academics. But somehow constantly. Posed by David Ikin, Alex Jones, who did not have degrees, obviously investigative journalists. So one of those things one of those things is true shadow government is a sexy an interesting thought, but I just don't buy. Thank you comes razor time. By away. New world. Order sucked. Look forward to the it is the internet eviscerating me in the comment section below this. You do video. Thanks get into time. So team high priest is harmony village camp, Jesse guardian of grammar dope. Ner Reverend Dr Joe paisley time, high priest Alex Dugan the guys bit elixir those wizards danger brain was fantastic brand designers space lizards emerge. Wizards access to peril. Queens suck. Lindsey commons. Another special, thanks to bojangles. Researcher Heather knowledge ninja Rylander suck. And a feud next Monday, maybe the most famous feud in American history, we're talking about the family feud, right? It's a originally hosted. No, we're talking about the hatfields and the mccoys hassles. No choice. I haven't wanted to suck that for a long time. What was the source of this vicious and violent clash between the hats McCoy's in the mid nineteenth century during the most heated years the feud each family has ruled by well known patriarch William Andrew from Hatfield not. Deva lance. Hey appearance of backwoods mountain daughter about eighteen seventies. David Lynch was increasingly successful timber merchant who employ dozens of man, including some course, on the other side has stood Randolph. Oh, Randall McCoy they'll not as prosperous Devlin's Randolph owns from land stock in both families lived long tug fork over the big sandy river snake along the boundary between Kentucky and West Virginia. I van decade-long feared was eighteen sixty five murder Randolph. Brother ASA Harmon lacouer about Logan. Wildcats local militia group that Karen devil Lanson hatfields among its membership relations between the two families soured over the next decade before flair and again over a seemingly small matter dispute over Hoge, an eighteen seventy eight Randolph co-accused flawed Hatfield cousin of Lance or state of one of his house valuable commodity in a poor region. You still not how by fraud, you somehow, I want you to admit some which wouldn't admit it and throw it feels. How to play some core territory, but was presided over by cousin of devil, an style or in on it and just like a new world order conspiracies Dale hinge on testimony star witness Bill spamming McCoy, relative mayor to field. Stand testified fro headphones favoring McCoy's infuriated because Floyd was cleared of hug charters two years later Stanton was violently killed in a Francis. Salmon pairs McCoy nephews Randolph Sam stood trial for the murder to quit it for defense rating and the feud was oh for real. Well, here nag got some p p. Oh, VO Hatfield mccoys face. No, no, many more will will die. I will not talk voice that entire episode. I promise. So he'll be like it. I'm looking forward to it. And that's all you get about the Hatfield mccoys until next week. It's time now for some time. So updates. Time. Kicking things off with an SOS from time sucker Todd Larson who wrote in recently with a heavy heart. Todd wrote. My name is Larsen I'm an OG spaces are fellow Idaho. And I could use some help my beautiful wife at twenty three years is going to chemotherapy for breast cancer. He's kicking cancer's ass. But the medical bills are kicking mine. I'm not one to ask for help. But being part of this. Awesome community you Bill Tommy there are a lot of people out there who need help. And they're also Shipton awesome. Folks that are willing to help at a moment's notice. One of our awesome co workers may go fund me can't go to help with medical costs. I'm no beggar a fulltime job my wife. Amanda works when the chemo isn't beaten down. But the cost of staying alive can kill you. Sometimes I really appreciate all you guys. Do a fire up time. So come away home from work. And it really helps me keep from losing my shit on crappy days here is the link. Thanks again for all you do beat that smoothie guy's ass. Well, thank you. I'm sorry. You're going through some some tough terrible things. I m including the link in today's episode description, so he can find Todd's go from me account if you would. Like to help time suckers. So. Yeah. Man, cancer cancer's terrible terrible thing. Hopefully, hopefully, hopefully, one of these days too long. We will eliminate it. World War One update coming in from Lucas weekly, Lucas rights. Hello master, the suck. I'm your humble servant. Lucas weekly. Just finished the World War One suck. And I felt it did a wonderful job giving a quick intro to World War One and his horse. Absolutely. Yet intro, keyword, man. That's talk. I mean was it Dan Carlin? I think some seventeen our over one while I do love that. You did what you did. And understanding a short time to cram. A lot of in. There's a few things I have to disagree with. I've already emailed you about the jet fighters, which I will discuss the second. Well, I was listening because jets were not yet invented yet. Correct. She said planes by planes, not yet. So I was just as wasn't thinking about how the words for an extra not interchangeable. I'll go on to clarify the nineteen fourteen Christmas truce and putting all the blame Germany. Well, it makes him crazy go around play soccer an exchange gifts. This just shows of all the politics at each country killing other the average soldier could and did go. Above country politics to engage the humans, and I think this was a defining moment in human history. Yeah. I agree with that. I'm a mother complaint is while as easy to blame Germany for the war. I feel the do not deserve the level of Blaine they received true. They were one of the first aggressors, but just like the other countries had alliances hold in Russia and Germany both quickly reacted to the issues between Serbia and Austria, Hungary, while Germany was very militaristic. Most European nations were in Russia, especially wanted to prove themselves after loss Japan nine hundred five again, that's in Germany had no blame. But I cannot put all the blame on them, especially when other countries who wage war with Germany got away with a lot less not to mention the harsh punishment place. In Germany was a key reason for Hitler's rise to power and World War Two just an additional information from someone who has spent his short life so far trying to learn all I can't about World War Two. You're humble spaces are Lucas. Thank you. Lucas PS starved long message. Now man knows no politics. Yeah. No, I agree. There were a lot of other nations that were aggressors. However, I do I disagree still with the. The blame on Germany situation. Because in a while a lot of other countries, we were quick to jump into the ward, they didn't have that Schleef in plan in place. You know, they weren't chomping at the bid to enact very calculated aggressive maneuver against both France and Russia that would then lead to a hostile takeover of basically all of Europe, you know, they had that ready to go. They tried it right away. They went straightforward. It's and and they lost. You know, they tried to take over your oven didn't happen when you lose wars. I mean, it just that thing where you get punished. Is it fair probably not? But, but if you don't wanna be possibly punished unfairly, then don't start a fucking where you can't win. You know, it's that thing of like to the Victor go the spoils and to the loser goes the blame to me. That's just I look at like, that's the way things worked in or the way things work. Yeah. Where it's like when you when you win a war, you get to kind of rewrite history a little bit and decide you know, who she had punished. But when you lose a war. Well, yeah. A lot of times, it probably isn't fair next update comes in from von Beck, who writes. Dear Dan Collins, aka master, sucking ten to third Esquire will goddamn stairs newly-acquired. Tom stuck? And I have to say, I'm thankful found your podcast. I'll thanks to the Pandora station at create callous hours of gut wrenching laughter. However what I'm really emailing. You about is to say thank you for making me interested in learning again. I'm I'm to over the road truck driver. Oh, yeah. A truck driver. So I really all I really have is music and podcast to keep me company in about a month and a half I'd gone completely caught up and fill with the passionate thirst for knowledge as well as a more open minded view for the world that is not as black and white as many try to make it seem to be. Yes. So my wife, and I talked about gray the world is very very gray. I don't always agree with your views. I hear that a lot too. And I like it. I liked it. It's agreements, but I always find them to be presented fairly open. I know this little long winded. So wrap it up here. I wanted so badly to come and meet you Dr grins Grand Rapids, Michigan November sixteen but unfortunately on the road until thanksgiving drive safe. If I could give you my my wonderful fiancee. And soon to be wife more Morgan. Oh if. If you could give my wonderful fiancee. And soon to be wife Morgan collinses shout out we just moved into our first real place together. And she's feeling real alone down lately that would be amazing store for long Email lever comedy every podcast. Please. Keep it up hail Nimrod PS. Remember back in front. You can't throw anything in the crock pot and hope I do to please his company. I will see that's one of my favorite lines. I've ever written for that fucked up joke on Chinese affection regards, you're humble peasant. Von Beckmann, drive safe. Von and yeah, Morgan Morgan Collins hanging there. I don't know what it's like, you know, I know that. Yeah. Thanks can't only for Lindsey the same way where I'm gone touring. So hope you got some good girlfriends just friends to you know, to pass the time with and hope you hope you like certain amount of alone time watch watch all your shows. Vaughn is a fucking Ronin for you watch shows you wanna watch he doesn't have to be there in wrapped in. Yeah. Now trying to do so. Yeah. Just relax gets relax. Enjoy it. And thank you guys for listening another World War One suck date coming in from Jamie. Your be who says suck master over to. Hours of the suck. That's how morning started. I must pull you back to task on your intro. Will you state to new technologies include fighter jets, lose FINA? Must have clouded your mind. Yes. Beguiled safina. Jeff fighters didn't come until. What would? Yep. As cheese. I didn't know if it's in the US, but try lactose free. I do do the cheddar taste exactly the same as normal cheddar, except without the gut wrenching horror lactose brings now they've they're making some amazing progress to chase. You may mention of the u boat campaign. I feel the k class submarines have United Kingdom might be of interest. O- of the eighteen built six sank. None were thanked by German forces one went down during sea trials one after colliding with her own sister to went down in the mass collision of the battle of may island one simply disappeared during a mock battle the last one managed to sink while import after the war only one successfully engaged the enemy, but failed to sink the vessel. As a torpedo warhead. Did not go off. All and all of the class was a heroic failure proving far more dangerous to their own crew than the Germans. Thank you. Thank you for all your hard work. And I can't wait for the next installment Lauren. Thank you Laurin. That's a great update. What a fuck and bummer that would be like all this time. All these scientists, you know, all these manpower, you know, working towards getting this thing built. And then you do test runs and everything, and it's just it couldn't be more of a colossal failure. What a bummer. We got an Email now for a update from John Hutson Houghton who say masters talker, one take a moment to thank you for acknowledging veterans and particularly the green beret association during your most recent suck. Oh, absolutely, man. We love those guys green as green berets. We generally don't say much bring it to to bring attention to ourselves. Our motto is the quite professionals and the community generally frowns upon making our exploits and accomplishments known to the public. I'm grateful. You chose the green brace sociation for this month's time. Suck donation they've been there when we've honored and buried are dead and helped others make the difficult transition to civilian life after their time in the regimen has come to an end, thanks for doing this a solid by bringing attention to their cause John. Yeah. Man. Thank you. Thank you for your service. Thank you for being part of such a fantastic organization that I'll never be able to fully comprehend. And so absolutely man, what we what we did was very very very tiny. What they do is huge. So that'd be a tiny part of helping enormously helpful organization and. Last one came in from flask. Flaccid? Shame. Capri is the name showed up from the app. Hey, Dan, first off we are huge fans of time suck anyway, just right in about one of your sponsors. And to tell you the story of how it saved my life. So recently, I heard you featuring the Chicoti harassing academy and I decided to sign up and hopefully get in shape. I went down to my little Jim, I gotta say pretty simple registration form. Didn't even ask for any information at all. It was a piece of paper that asked if I liked walking in the woods and vodka. I did think this was. Was odd soon. Went to ask him what's up with this? And the instructor just yelled. What's his problem? You want to fight like, they're like chicken, Joel. I'm make. Meekly said bear. And he said is right. Fuck chicken, Joel. Anyway, the classes were tout- on the pricey side. But they're worth every penny. So last Saturday, I was out on the town and gave me a and me and a few buddies were having drinks and local bar as the night went on. We were feeling no pain. We're getting pretty loud. Another group of guys, I guess was getting really angry for whatever reason. Maybe it's my buddy, Chris relentless takeover jukebox, and constant Michael mother, fucking McDonalds and yum OBI there. Oh plane perhaps it was the constant long full volume either way they got pretty heated pretty quickly. And I decided to put 'em chicken -til put my cheek and Taylor wrassling into action. So immediately tackle one of the dudes and use the signature move the flaccid. Shame. Cock start off all my clothes and just started screaming flaccid. Shame. Cock flaccid. Shame cock flashing ship over and over. And amazingly the guy got up and scream what the fuck is wrong with you and ran out of the bar oddly enough, we were definitely asked to leave and never come back. But honestly, it's worth it. I can't tell you how thankful I am to the has such wonderful sponsor so thanks to time. So I'm going the take till wrassling academy. Love the show. Keep it up keep up the awesome work. Thanks ray. Well, great. I'm glad man that the defense techniques you learned from chicken tillers resident kademi save your life. They're unorthodox. They are always that. I'm glad you didn't have to use the pill. The thrust of holding you down and strengthen the Powell this in the in the soft and the limp Ted on you cannot for this. I don't know what I'm saying right now. But I know that's it's been awhile since I took a class. The class. But but I'm glad it works. Thank you, everyone for the knowledge and support. And that is it for today. Thanks time. I need it. Now. We all did how good week everybody trying to let a secret shadow government hold you under the role. Manipulating thumb this week, wake up sheep will Sunday. Sunday, Sunday, brother, the new world order and keep on sucking. Twenty four inch loser on terror. Can you feel the power brother?

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