20 Episode results for "Department Of Treasury"

COVID Relief Update: The American Rescue Plan Act of 2021

SML Planning Minute

12:13 min | 4 months ago

COVID Relief Update: The American Rescue Plan Act of 2021

"Welcome to security mutual life insurance company of new. York's snl planning minute where we share concise and thought-provoking financial ideas for individuals families and business owners security mutual the company. That cares. hello. This is bill rinaldi with a special edition of security mutuals. Snl planning minute in. Today's episode. Kobe relief update the american rescue plan. Act of two thousand twenty one part one on march eleven twenty twenty one president biden signed into law the american rescue plan act of two thousand twenty one. Aarp a fulfilling one of his campaign pledges to provide additional covid. Nineteen pandemic relief. Aarp a provides one point nine trillion dollars to struggling americans and businesses and is the second largest relief bill. After last year's two point two trillion dollar corona virus aid relief and economic security act the cares act enacted in march of twenty twenty. Unfortunately the bill's passage was not a result of bipartisanship. that president biden also pledged. He would work on not one. Republican member of the senate or house voted in favor of the law. Nevertheless the aarp a brings needed relief to the many who were left jobless furloughed struggling to pay rent or otherwise financially and adversely affected by the pandemic. This the law was just enacted and there are numerous provisions. Additional details will need to wait for future guidance issued by the irs and department of treasury. But here's a summary of some of the key provisions as we understand them today. Number one stimulus payments. You may recall that. The first economic impact payment i e stimulus payment of up to twelve hundred dollars to eligible individuals was a result of the cares. Act at the end of twenty twenty. The consolidated appropriations act twenty twenty. One wasn't acted which provided many adult americans with an additional stimulus payment of up to six hundred dollars that stimulus payment was decried as wholly inadequate and president biden promised to provide additional stimulus payments to eligible individuals. Aarp a officially designates the stimulus payments as twenty twenty one recovery rebates which are in advance of a twenty twenty one income tax credit. Aarp a provides an additional fourteen hundred dollars per qualifying household member. For example a married couple with two children may receive up to five thousand six hundred dollars by comparison that is more than the thirty four hundred dollar maximum payment from the cares act and the twenty four hundred dollars from the there are however some major differences in the eligibility for this third round of stimulus payments under aarp dependence could include children age seventeen and older including college students age. Twenty three and younger as well as elderly or infirm family members living in the household dependence for children under the cares act and see act. The definition of a dependent child relied upon eligibility for a child. Tax credit hence was limited to children under the age of seventeen. The aarp a parent's also have more restrictive adjusted gross income agi limitations benefits will phase out quicker than before we're individuals the phase outrages seventy five thousand to eighty thousand dollars per head of household one hundred twelve thousand five hundred dollars to one hundred and twenty thousand dollars for married couples filing jointly it is one hundred and fifty thousand dollars to one hundred and sixty thousand dollars contrast that to the phaseout limits under the cares act and the act of two thousand twenty one respectively for individuals. It was ninety nine thousand dollars and eighty seven thousand dollars per head of household. It was one hundred thirty six thousand five hundred and then one hundred twenty four thousand five hundred dollars and for married filing jointly. It was one hundred ninety. Eight thousand one hundred seventy four thousand dollars as you can see. Each round of stimulus payments has resulted in tightened qualifications to target relief to individuals and families with lower incomes to determine eligibility. The irs will look at the most recently filed income tax. Return for many. That will be the two thousand and nineteen return however since the pandemic started in two thousand twenty many who were adversely affected may have less income in twenty twenty that may be important to meet the phase out limits. In that case quickly filing twenty twenty income tax return may be beneficial. But at this point it is difficult to predict wednesday munis payments will actually be made although the biden administration has stated that payments could start in a matter of a few days if the two thousand twenty income tax return is not filed in time for the stimulus payment. That simply means. You'll have to wait until later. This year to receive the correct amount. Because arpa authorizes the irs to make corrections based upon the twenty twenty income tax return if you would qualify under your two thousand nineteen income tax return but not under your twenty twenty income tax return. You may be better off waiting to file the twenty twenty return. The stimulus payment is not considered taxable income and the aarp specifically forbids the irs to take back any payments made i blowback for those who continue to financially struggle into twenty twenty one but don't qualify to receive the full stimulus payment based upon past income. Data you might still be able to get the stimulus payment when you file your twenty twenty one income tax return next year. Remember that the aarp a stimulus payment is really an advance of an income tax credit for twenty twenty one number two child tax credit prior to aarp a the maximum child tax credit. Two thousand dollars. The so called standard child tax credit aarp a provides an increase of the maximum amount of the child tax credit from two thousand to three thousand dollars per qualifying child. In addition the maximum credit is further increased. Three thousand six hundred per qualifying child under the age of six as of december thirty first twenty twenty one the so called enhanced child tax credit however the phase out ranges for this enhanced child tax credit are significantly reduced the phase out for the standard child tax credit begins at four hundred thousand dollars for married filing jointly and two hundred thousand dollars for single for every one thousand dollars over the phase out limit. The credit is reduced by fifty dollars. The phase out for the enhanced child tax credit begins at one hundred and fifty thousand dollars per filing jointly and seventy five thousand dollars for single for every one thousand dollars over the phase out limit. The credit is reduced by fifty dollars. The child tax credit typically applies to children ages sixteen and under as of the end of the year. Aarp temporarily increases the age to seventeen and under twenty twenty one prior to the tax cuts and jobs act of two thousand seventeen t cj. The child tax credit was a non-refundable credit the tc increased the credit from one thousand dollars to two thousand dollars and made up to fourteen hundred of that amount refundable aarp makes the full child tax credit for twenty twenty one refundable. That's an important difference. Because if the credit makes the total tax liability negative for the year the remaining credit is refunded to the tax payer. this provision is expected to positively impact. Many families with young children in addition arpa requires that the irs pay fifty percent of the estimated child tax credit amount in the second half of two thousand twenty one using the tax data from twenty twenty if the advance exceeds the actual child tax credit amount in some situations. The excess is subject to claw back on the twenty twenty one income tax return. Further guidance will be required from the irs. As you can see all of these changes made by a rpa can make calculating the child tax credit a complicated exercise number three child and dependent care tax credit working parents with young children will receive more benefits from aarp a due to changes made to the child and dependent care tax credit for twenty twenty. One this is a credit for dependent care expenses enabling the parent to continue working prior to aarp. A the credit was calculated using a maximum of three thousand dollars of qualified expenses for example daycare for one qualifying child. I e those underage thirteen for the entire year and six thousand dollars of expenses for two or more qualifying children taxpayers with dependents who are physically or mentally incapable of caring for themselves may also qualify for this credit. Aarp a increase the maximum amount of expenses that can be used to eight thousand dollars and sixteen thousand dollars. Depending upon one or more than one qualifying dependence the law also changed the agi limitations before the credit is phased out and the method for calculating the credit making lists credit available to many more american families with young children or other qualifying dependence. The changes will also impact high income families negatively i e over four hundred thousand dollars in agi whereas in the past. They may have been eligible a portion of the credit. They may no longer be in two thousand twenty one and we'll phase out more quickly. This concludes part one of our summary of the american rescue plan. Act of twenty twenty one tune in for part two next week. This podcast is brought to you by security mutual life insurance company of new york the company that cares the contact provided is intended for educational and informational purposes. Only information is provided in good faith. However the company makes no representation or warranty of any kind regarding the accuracy reliability or completeness of the information to help. Reach your goals. You need a skilled professional by your side. Contact your local security mutual life insurance advisor today as part of the planning process. He or she will coordinate with your other advisors as needed to help you achieve your financial goals and objectives for more information. Visit us at snl. Ny dot com slash snl podcast. If you enjoy this podcast tell your friends about it and be sure to give us a five star review and check us out linked youtube and twitter. Thanks for listening. And we'll talk to you next time. The applica- -bility of any strategy discussed depending upon the particular facts and circumstances results may vary and products and services discussed may not be appropriate for all situations. Each person's needs objectives and financial circumstances are different and must be reviewed and analyzed independently. We encourage individuals to seek personalized advice from a qualified security mutual life insurance advisor regarding their personal needs objectives and financial circumstances insurance products are issued by security mutual life insurance company of new york binghamton new york product availability and features may vary by state.

aarp irs bill rinaldi president biden department of treasury biden
What You Need to Know About Covid Relief

CNN Political Briefing

08:30 min | 4 months ago

What You Need to Know About Covid Relief

"This podcast is brought to you by peter. Millar innovative design in luxury menswear. Hello everyone welcome to a special edition of the cnn. Political briefing. Im cnn chief. Business correspondent christine romans the one point nine trillion dollar corona virus package signed into law. This week contains a wide range of proposals to help. Americans still struggling with the economic fallout of the pandemic as president biden laid out last night. It's huge it's historic and families can expect thousands of dollars in help includes one thousand four hundred dollars in direct rescue checks payments that extends unemployment benefits. It helps small businesses lower healthcare premiums for many provides food and nutrition keeps families in their homes cut child poverty in this country in half according to the experts and it funds all the steps. I've just described to beat the virus and create millions of jobs. But you might be wondering. How is this going to affect me. And when will i see financial impact. So today we're going to give you a guide to what you can expect to get from the largest mulas measure in modern american history. And when you can expect to see it. First let's talk about the stimulus checks the money that will be given directly to you. This law will provide direct payments worth up to fourteen hundred dollars for about ninety percent of the country. But what are you gonna get and win here. Cnn politics writer. Katie la bosco. Who's been covering the inside and out to explain. The legislation does narrow the scope of who gets the checks a little bit compared to previous rounds. So it cuts off individuals. Earning more than eighty thousand dollars a year married couples. Earning more than one hundred and sixty thousand dollars a year so individuals making less than seventy five thousand dollars a year. We'll get that full amount married couples making less than a hundred and fifty thousand. We'll get that full amount and heads of households making less than a hundred and twelve thousand five hundred dollars. We'll get the full amount and then the payment will phase out gradually the more money and white house press secretary. Jen psaki told reporters on thursday. The money we'll be there soon department of treasury and the are working hard to get relief payments out the door as fast as possible to the american people. People can expect to start seeing direct. Posits hit their bank accounts as early as this weekend. This is of course just the first wave and payments to eligible americans will continue throughout the course of the next several weeks of course as the press secretary alluded to there. If your direct deposit information is not on file with the treasury department and the irs those payments could take a little longer next. Let's talk about what's in the law for out of work americans and we should note. This was signed just in time. Unemployment benefits were set to expire on march fourteenth. If you're unemployed you should expect to receive a three hundred dollar weekly federal boost to your jobless benefits and you'll get those payments through six. Now that's three hundred dollars a week. On top of state benefits you know. Traditionally there was no federal unemployment system which means it was all handled at the state level. Cnn senior writer. Tammy explains this law expanded to key unemployment programs the pandemic unemployment assistance program which helps folks who are freelancers gig workers independent contractors as well as certain people affected by the pandemic parents whose children schools have closed. And who have to take care of their kids so they can't work. All of those folks can now get coverage and then there's also the pandemic emergency unemployment compensation program which provides more weeks for people who run out of state unemployment benefits because the state programs last only twenty six weeks. Max and as we all know this pandemic has been upending. The economy for far more than twenty six weeks and one other new unemployment benefit in this law is that the first ten thousand two hundred dollars of jobless benefits will be tax free. That's for household income's under one hundred fifty thousand dollars a year but if you're out of work you're probably wondering when am i going to see these extended benefits. Here's tammy again to explain. The department of labor still has to issue guidance and rules for the states to follow and then they have to program it into their computers and a lot of state. Unemployment agencies have very antiquated technology. So it could be a few weeks before folks actually get these extended benefits but luckily it's retroactive so they'll get a big check and then they'll continue to get their benefits through september sixth next one of the biggest ways. This law will fundamentally affect the lives of poor. Americans is the expanded child tax credit. You heard president biden say earlier that some experts estimate this will cut child poverty in half. So here's what you may be able to receive. It gives parents with children under the age of six thirty six hundred dollars per child for a year then. Three thousand dollars for every child age six through seventeen. There's five hundred dollars for each child. Seventeen and eighteen or for college age kids full-time college. Students aged nineteen to twenty four. The here's the key thing. These are direct monthly payments. This is not getting a lump sum attacks time a big difference and that's a major boost for the lowest income americans. The tax policy center says a low income household with children will see an average tax cut of nearly seventy seven hundred dollars that raises their after-tax income by more than thirty five percent. Finally this law helps the neediest. Americans by allowing more people to qualify for federal premium subsidies under the affordable care act. Here's tammy again to explain. It's going to provide much more generous subsidies for those folks who were signing up on the obamacare exchanges now anybody can qualify for coverage above the poverty level. It's going to help. People have always said that the affordable care act is not affordable for them and then also it's actually lower income enroll as those closer to the poverty line are going to actually have their premiums eliminated completely and those collecting unemployment benefits will be able to sign up for coverage also with no premiums. The legislation also provides more generous assistance. If you've lost your job but want to remain on your employers health insurance plan in that case you won't have to pay any premiums through the end of september now. This legislation is sprawling. There's just so much more to it that might affect you that. We don't really have time to get into things like money for disadvantaged farmers. There's incentives for paid sick leave increased food stamps rent assistance. That's not to mention billions in funding for vaccines and school. Reopening overall as americans mark one year of the pandemic economic collapse. It cannot be stressed how important it is that a third wave of support. Its way and just how much this will assist those in need and when you take a step back between those checks child allowance program and expansion of zero premium healthcare coverage housing aid and all these other benefits. It's one of the most aggressive anti-poverty bills in recent history. That's it for today's special edition of the cnn. political briefing. Thanks so much for listening and please take a moment. Be sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Cnn political briefing is a production of cnn. Audio megan marcus is our executive producer and haley. Thomas is our senior producer. Rosh makita is our senior production manager are episodes are produced by. We'll cadigan emmanuel johnson mutasa david toledo an engineered by francisco monroy and special thanks to tammy lou be of course in cato bosco for their excellent reporting. I'm christine romans. David chalian will be back on monday. If you're using anything other than indeed for your hiring you're wasting your time. Hire great people faster with indeed indeed dot com helps you find quality candidates instantly within deed in match indeed searches through the millions of resumes and their database to help show you great candidates instantly get started right now with a free seventy five dollars credit to upgrade your job post at indeed dot com slash. Cnn that's indeed dot com slash cnn offer valid through march thirty first terms and conditions apply.

Cnn president biden christine romans Katie la bosco Jen psaki department of treasury Millar tammy
056| To Ban or Not to Ban? Ransomware Payment Regulation

Cyber Security Sauna

35:49 min | Last week

056| To Ban or Not to Ban? Ransomware Payment Regulation

"Hi everyone and welcome to the cybersecurity. Sonal thanks for joining us for another session where we sit out the hot topics insecurity. Welcome to all our listeners and be sure to follow us on at hashtag. Cyber zone ransomware payment amounts have skyrocketed over the past year as threat actors. Keep getting richer. They have more resources to fuel their operations. Many people argue that the way to discourage ransomware is to implement an outright ban on ransom payments. Is this suggestion idealistic or realistic. How would such a ban effect companies here with us to discuss this baby tune in and of the finnish national cybersecurity center on the rose of f secure. Welcome to the show. Thanks to be here or so. What kind of payments are these criminals. Usually after i see a lot of ransomware cases day today boots on the ground incident response. So when i when i see the ransomware payments demanded the amounts vary wildly quite honestly. I think the amount is based off of not just who the actor is but also who they think. The company is the more money they think. The company has the larger payments. They're going to demand to their sizing victim up and sort of figuring out like this is how much money i think you have and would be willing to pay me. Yes and what i can also say is when it comes to ransomware payment negotiation. I know that a lot of negotiating parties will offer something. Sometimes ten five percent of the initial number and the attacker will take that amount also. It's almost like calling a bluff in a card game. Yeah and especially in the catoon sick attacks like this really should take everything. You're getting because the I think the expectations in age successful when somewhere attack is that they are not getting paid. So they're also something. I think it makes a whole lot sense to take the amount that he's being offered. Yeah whatever you can get all right. So let's talk about the The argument for banning ransomware payments alright. What's the argument in favor of this in the us department of treasury actually released a sanctioning on ransom payments to certain countries and regions that are considered a risk by the the department of treasury were were sanctioned countries so the reasoning behind it is greater. Good if you pay a ransomware actor you individually may have your data recovered and decrypted and you can resume operations but then you are providing funding for them to carry out the next ransomware operation. It's almost like passing the The problem downhill rather than addressing it and trying to solve it. I heard that argument for example with the colonial pipeline incident A lot of the eastern seaboard of the united states was sort of having problems with fuel distribution and the ransom were criminals. Were asking for like five million bucks or something like that so you know. Five million as opposed to holding like the entire. East coast ransom. Why don't we just pay right. Yeah a lot of times. Companies will look at this as a as a business decision honestly. let's say companies completely ransomed and all of their operations have come to a stop that lasting even just a day can mean millions of dollars in revenue lost for larger companies so if the attackers asking for a million dollars. It's a lot of ways. It seems like a no brainer to just pay the ransom and resume operations and in a way a profit of a million or so in having your operations back for that day but also like good information. Security is not cheap. So do you do you guys think companies are sort of. This is just the cost of doing business like you know. I'm not willing to spend all this money on information security. So if they're so ransomware thing all just you know. Pay the ransom at all. Save some money in the end anyway. I think that sounds more like uninformed decisions maybe they risks on communicated that well what comes in poor cyber security so ransomware attacks off just a minor part of the whole picture and if we keep communicating to the decision makers directors of company c x os. Whoever that is the biggest risk with having poor cybersecurity hygiene in your company is there s of being ransomed against million couple million dollars. It that that doesn't paint the whole picture and it doesn't make the decision makers understand. What the real risks on what the real cost is and i mean if you were vulnerable for this one crew. Who's to say there isn't the next one just around the corner. I think on top of that too one thing you really need to look at is the reputational impact when this oil pipeline was ransomed. Sure they're down a few million dollars because they paid the ransom but on top of that they've lost the trust of essentially the american populace. So if you're talking about a company that is not supported and backed by the government. If this kind of thing makes the news it can ruin the company's reputation irrevocably. Maybe the cynical argument is like. So what like. What are you going to do now. Like build your own pipeline in the oil pipeline scenario. It's definitely a bit of a different story than most companies have. But i i would still argue that something like this will probably prompt people to look into alternative energy resources or or ways to to not use this oil pipeline. That is so so much at risk of just going down or or being insecure. Now i hear you. But like i was thinking the same thing like back in the day when when the cheating website ashley. Madison got hit and their accounts were published. People still kept using the service because they like their illicit affairs better than they like their privacy. That's the thing if you don't have any options that same goes with the critical infrastructure that you decide that yeah. I'm going to stop using oil because they have such poor cybersecurity hygiene. I think the decision making is happening on the grass level on the individual level only when it's reflected for example the oil prices that for example paying the ransom is making the oil more expensive for the individuals. That is the only thing that is going to affect the consumer behavior know what about on the company's side like let's say that wrentham paying is now outlawed and you can't. That's not an option for you but you got hit hit by ransomware anyway. So what else can you do as a company. Yeah there's a Very very slim chance that you may be able to reverse the the encryption mechanism but most ransom where actors at this point have adopted ones that are essentially impossible to reverse. So once you hit. There's not much you can do. And i think one of the key problems when you're facing ransomware is that security investment security hygiene and things. Those are problems that only really seemed to address that most companies after there's been an attack or after there's been a significant impact as a result of poor security. You can't just respond to this type of thing. You have to be proactive. You have to at the very least have some kind of backups of your critical infrastructure. Ideally you'd have security policies in place defensive measures but even a non ideal world. Something like backups. Something like let's say. Dr or something just just this sort of Basic single item defensive measures are fairly easy to implement. They may be a decent amount of investment. But it's worth its weight in gold when you're facing scenario like this that's the thing it's not just about getting your information these days. Criminals are also threatening to publish your information like. Let's say i'm a hospital. And i'm sitting on a lot of people's health records and you know personally identifiable information like that I don't want that published out there. So if i can't pay the ransom what else can i do but that maze if you willing to pay the ransom that maze that you actually believe that the criminal who has stolen that information is actually going to hold up with his end up the deal that yea if you pay me enough on going to sale this information forward to anyone in gain even more money. Yeah that makes a whole lot of sense to me. Yeah there's no guarantee at all but when you pay one of these ransoms that you're going to get everything back even if you get the encryption key. A lot of file types and things like databases once they're encrypted when they're decrypted. A lot of data can be corrupted in that process. I've i've seen it first. Hand where you know. A crucial customer database was encrypted decrypted with a decryption key and one that was done. The the database was unusable and it essentially it ruined the value proposition of paying the ransom in the first place because that that database was so vital so there there are a lot of reasons. Even if you're you're planning on paying the ransom that things might not work out for you. Yeah that is exactly what i've seen as well when i've looked for example for the encryption routines that the criminals have implemented to their runs in the very poorly implemented and they lead to corruption. And even if you have the decryption keys you are unable to retrieve the information back when it's been encrypted because it's basically corrupted the point staying on the topic of hospitals do you guys think that regulators could just like cut off these institutions from potential solution to restoring their operations like would the lawmakers. Just be happy with saying. Yep we're not gonna pay ransom no matter what no matter if. Your hospital is random. People's private information is about to be leaked. Patients are dying of the tables. Were sticking to our guns. No paying ransom. I think when we talk about specific scenarios individual scenarios where maybe people's lives are at stake. Maybe there's some kind of greater impact to be considered there. I think that's something that to be. Handled on a case by case basis and i think the oil pipeline scenarios is actually one. That's worth considering here. Because we don't really know much about the ransomware actor. In that case i mean we've got some some artifacts and things but as far as attribution. I don't recall seeing much in the news as to whether or not they follow under that regulation from the department of the treasury. And i think the reasoning for that is there was a decision made by maybe the government that it's worth having the oil pipeline restored. It's worth having that ransom paid in order to keep operations running. You know whether or not those decisions are the right ones. I think is a different. But in in the case of this argument specifically about ransomware. I think the regulation needs to happen across the board as a first step and then we can start to consider those individual scenarios once. We've got that step in place if we think about security outside the cyber rome for example if we think about how safe airplanes and cars and such are they have fairy strict security regulations and those being actually followed and monitored and no one is allowed to operate for example airplane. If that hasn't paused all of these very rigorous security measures why that combine implemented at least two critical infrastructure. Eight makes whole sense to me to regulate these kind of things that you have very secure infrastructure. Each bay proven decade after decade and unim- different topics that that can be done. Why is it impossible cybersecurity. We can say that airplanes. I one hundred percent secure or there are no car accidents of them. Minimal impact because of the security measures. So i think we just have to accept criminals. We'll be always criminals and there will be always attacks in ransomware incidence and such but we just have to minimize the impact at least on the critical infrastructure. Alright we come from different countries jordan. Fabian myself so what if Paying ransom was legal in in some countries but illegal in would that cause rents were actress to focus more on the countries where he can pay the rent. So more like is the key here. Just like a global ban and bef- week strength somewhere and it's gone now well would definitely lead situation that you find ways to transfer the money you you would be able to pay the ransom if you really want to. And what comes to your proposal of implementing these global restriction restrictions. That hasn't worked at old in anything. I think when you're talking about ransomware it's almost always an opportunistic attack. It's an attack. where maybe it's done. As a result of a scan across the internet. I mean actually. A great example of this was wannacry. That was literally just an automated attack across the entire internet. You know they just went. Ip address by ip address launched the exploit if it worked the estate was ransomed. If it didn't work it wasn't ransomed so. I don't think regulations will stop the attack outright and i think that's why you know like we've been saying we need to put more regulation in place not just around whether you pay or you don't pay but also around what defenses. You must have in place before you even get to the point that you've been ransomed especially when we're talking about critical infrastructure things that people's lives depend on if it's if it's ransomed or not you don't think that would just encourage the attackers to sort of focus on this critical infrastructure organizations so that there is more pressure to pay the ransom. Well i if we're talking about increasing. The security posture of these organizations the the best deterrent is either annoyance or delay if the regulations force these companies to put in place a lot of security measures like i said these attacks are opportunistic mostly in nature. So you know. It's a complex conversation. But i think at the end of the day the stronger your cybersecurity posture is even. If it's just in small measures the better chance you have of not getting hit by a more attack for a myriad of reasons. Yeah and if we think about the from the criminal perspective they are also that as their job and they are trying to make as good at money with as little effort as possible so if you have high security posture the odds are that they are going to look somewhere else where it's easier to attack in easier to get ransom okay. Those article on the forbes saying that ninety percent of organizations who paid the ransom don't get all their data back at what you're seeing as well. Absolutely yeah i I've seen a lot of cases where the ransom is paid and the attacker just either takes the money runs or they will take the initial payment provided decryption key but then ransom additional data that. They've exfiltrated it's this is not a transaction. That's you know verified in any way really. Yeah you're just crossing your fingers when you send those bitcoins out. So i think that's another crucial argument here against paying the ransom is. There's absolutely no guarantee that you're going to get anything back and even if you do get something back. You're painting a target on your back. Not just for the ransomware attackers that you're dealing with. But any of their their friends as well you know. I've seen forums on the dark web sites where people are talking about. Oh well. I had good luck watching exploits against this company. You should give it a try as well. And then you know as soon as you've asked to this this first problem and recovered maybe the decryption key even worked for you. You're lucky ten percent well too bad. You've got another ransomware actor on your front door. Today's later yeah i would. I would propose or say something. Counter argument about this. The organizations that has been ransomed and have paid and have gotten their data back. How willing they are to speak up. Could see that being the case that were only in the public eye. We're only seeing a portion of of the cases but even if we allow for a little bit of bias in the data that we're seeing if it's not a sure thing if it's not a guarantee if it's a roll of the dice anyway if you're gonna get your information back or not. Doesn't that mean that the business is gonna die out. Its own like do. We need to penalize paying at all that hasn't been working so far at all so if we look back for example what runs where was five years ago it was more trying to spew out these ransomware attacks where ever they were recipients and usually these recipients of these attacks where Pc users individual users and the trend in the past couple years has been that they've been growing into these more targeted operations that they are actually looking at the environment that where they are and whether the information that they are going to hold against is a valuable and how valuable data that has been growing a lot. So even though the recovering after paying. The ransom hasn't been that successful at that has been distorted from the beginning. It seems that the ransomware problem is just growing bigger and more problematic. Yeah i think a good way to think about the. The regulations scenario is a traffic speeding on a highway or something. So you know on on every highway. There are signs that say speed limit. Sixty five right does. Does everybody drive sixty five miles or kilometers per hour. Many people do still speed and do still take the risk of being you know pulled over and fined or arrested or whatever the outcome will be so even an accident. I think you'll find. Is the real outcome there. But but go on well. I think that's actually why this is such a great analogy is part of the potential outcome. When you're taking that chance in you're paying the attacker by going over the speed limit. You're you're not just risking being fined by regulator. You're still risking getting into a car accident or you're still risking a problem with that that attacker but the the biggest reasoning for posting that speed limit or putting these regulations in place is not to penalise individual businesses. it's as a deterrent in general to stop businesses from just making this decision purely based off of a will. My daily operation is worth two million dollars. But i only have to pay one million to restore my network. So i'm just gonna pay the one million because it makes sense from a financial perspective but if we add the sanctions on top of that so if your if your daily operations cost the two million dollars pay the ransom. One million dollar and the sanctions are maybe five hundred thousand. That would still be a pretty good offer to Or the decision to pay the ransom and pay the Sanction fee that would still make sense so that is just like kicking someone already when he's been attacked the actually quite like the department of treasury's implementation because it does threaten potential jail time so no matter how no matter how good of a decision. It looks like from a financial perspective You know something like the company's ceo isn't going to want to put their own by fit risk so it adds a layer of of risk assessment to that decision and it again. it's a deterrent. Is it going to stop. Every single person from paying ransom. No but it will help reduce the problem and it will help reduce the funding that these attackers have in their pocket when they go to attack the next victim. Won't that just means that we're going gonna be getting even less data about attacks from now on because companies are going to be even more tight lipped about getting hit by ransomware where they where they can leave unless they absolutely have to come out and admit that they're not going to because there's going to be all these repercussions in my opinion that that would lead to that. There's sort of like the shame. And the seer of being penalized the reality of it at least in the us that i can share. Is you know. The fbi is monitoring many of these ransomware attacks before they even hit a network. I've worked with the fbi myriad occasion where the ransomware attacker comes into the network. A day later the gets a call from the fbi. We jump on the phone with them. And you know. I'm sure you can assume how they get this information. But they have screen shots from you. Know the terminal window on command and control server. They're seeing this attack happened in real time. It's it's honestly really cool to see. I'm sure what that also means. Even if these companies don't say anything the fbi still has a good chance of of knowing that you did something it's a bit of a big brother scenario but then reality jail but isn't this actually like if paying the ransom is only like ten percent effective in regaining your data but like one hundred percent effective in fueling. This criminal phenomenon. Isn't that an argument in favor of of just banning la outlawing it entirely well it sounds like that but how would you implement that effectively. Banning i think the most effective way to outright ban the rents where payments east to Bandon money transfer so. I'm not big of these Jail time and given big fines to ceo's who pay the ransom a more of this trying to stop the money transfer so i think that is something that could be done and would be way more effective and just sanctioning afterwards. So would that actually be a good alternative to outright banning just You know start off by having companies Report to payments. That you know you can pay the ransom but you have to report it and then sort of see what the situation is. What the next step is then. Look at like maybe. Can we restrict these payment somehow. Get more information like what else could lawmakers do. Just ban ransom payments. I think as far as alternative options even if we ban the payments. The attackers are going to find something else to do here. Even if we get rid of every single untraceable way of handling money. I guarantee you. These attackers are going to just turn around and find a different way to monetize this. Something like selling data on the dark web or selling it to competitors. Or what have you. I think we might see an increase in that if we ban ransomware payments outright these criminals are going to continue being criminals regardless of whether we we ban payments methods or ransomware or whatever it is we do. Yeah i have to totally agree with jordan. That won't and what comes to the tentatives. You listed if every renzo were attack has to report that they are being ransomed that that would help probably the regulators as well to build the thorough threat. Picture that how much it is affecting. And what kind of industries and fading in that kind of information about the prevalence of the problem would help. Probably in the future to mitigate in larger scale against as attack on the shirts temp solutions. Just banning. The payments. That's not going to sell the problem for a long time. And as we've seen the criminals are always adapting. They're always looking for new ways to monetize their activities well. Speaking of short term solutions A lot of companies have been turning to cyber insurance and now scheiber in cyber insurance companies have been paying through the nose and now they don't want anymore so what's going to happen to that whole area. Yeah so i think with cyber insurance it. It really is just continue contributing to the problem and again. It's it's making it very economically. Viable decision. To pay the ransom. I think that's part of why having these regulations in places important because there's there's going to be a way to you know. Get out of the situation. Would they an positive from a financial perspective so even if a company is ransom for some ridiculous amount of money if they have cyber insurance they can just turn around and say well. This cost us x. Amount plus we had to pay the ransom. Hey cyber insurance give me you know my my recompense for all of this. So if if we're allowed to follow that sort of model. The insurance industry is will benefit from this. Probably the individual companies will benefit from this and most importantly the ransomware attackers will benefit hugely from this The the only people that are losing out here are the people that can't afford cyber insurance and those are the ones that i think need the most protection in in the form of regulation if we slow down or perhaps some day even stop the ransomware machine. These smaller mom and pop shop style. Businesses are going to be less at risk of being just completely eradicated by by something like this not not every business can afford to just throw money at the problem to make it go away. Yeah and i think. In addition to fueling the runs were problem. It's also fueling the problem overall that if we if we pay for cyber insurance we don't have to invest up much money for our internal security operations. We don't have to maintain this level of security hygiene and such. It's easier to measure if if you don't understand for example if you if you don't understand the security industry at all it's easier to measure in your budgets and such to just invest some book amount to a cyber insurance and that that is just your level of security at that point so every everything happens after you've been bridged you've lost data or you're being ransomed you just go to your insurance company and Ask for compensation and that is very very bad cyber security strategy. Yeah and also. It's an untenable situation. Like i don't think cyber insurance companies are going to be happy to do this for much longer. I think premiums are going to go up on payments are going to go down and then you know what's the benefit of having cyber insurance anyway. Yeah i think it'll be case the moore incidences. That happened like you said the more that premiums will go up and restrictions will be placed on what exactly constitutes pay on. Now i was thinking. In the case of that oil pipeline. I was thinking like if this was a terrorist attack the response would have been. I would have thought much. More visible and high profile and president biden is actually talking about taking a more active role countering cyber attacks than you use strategy seems to put them in the same level with other terrorist attacks. How does that correlate with the with you know penalizing ransom payment for i think the approach biden has taken with taking cyber attacks on the same level as terrorism as overall. I think as a way of showing that yes. Dace incidents day are affecting on a large scale individuals and organizations and they all threat to a nation as a whole so making that kind of big of a statement could help understanding that levels of these cybersecurity breaches could have potentially. Yeah i think you know just like the executive order that came out from biden. It's a nuanced issue but it is overall at an excellent step forward. I think a pretty common turn of phrase nowadays. Today's wars are fought on computers rather than battlegrounds many of the attacks that we're going to see whether they be diplomatic in nature. Maybe they're just financially motivated. Whatever it is. I think we're gonna see more and more of them happening on computers and i i mean i personally have seen many of them. That are motivated at a geopolitical level. Where we need to have Preparations in place to address something like this and deal with it in order to respond appropriately and effectively. Okay so best defense. Probably not to get hit by ransomware in the first place at all. So what's what are some of the things that companies should and could be doing to prevent this problem from ever happening. So it's a it's a complex issue right. Cybersecurity is a a long and twisted chain that That you need to establish in order to to stop these things but just like a chain. It's only as strong as the weakest link. So when we're talking about how to defend against something like this it's going to be shoring up your defenses and in every way you possibly can. If i had to narrow it down to a specific recommendation. I would say it a tooling. Having fdr in place some kind of network will wide visibility and hopefully monitoring as well. We'll give you the best chance of seeing something like this happening before the attacker pulls the trigger. When it comes to ransomware they want to affect the entire network. they want to get the domain controllers. They wanna get the servers. They wanna get the backups. So that you have no chance of recovering so in many of these attacks scenarios even if a certain subset of computers are infected. You still have a chance to respond and in stop it. it's just a question of. How quickly can you see the attack. And how quickly can you turn that into. An effective response and containment of set attack and also for not allowing to attack happen in the first place. There are very simple security hygiene rules that are minimize the attack cephas. So you don't you're services on the open internet and the ones that you have to have open have proper authentication. Two factor authentication multi factor authentication. So you're preventing on authorizing unauthorized access to these services. The other point that will stop the lateral movement that jordan mentioned at trying to infect the whole network is a proper network segregation separate the networks from one another and just open up enough holes for your critical operations. Don't leave anything open so implementing those two would go miles long for preventing any type of cyber attack so this has been another episode where we fail to solve. The problems failed to come up with new shiny blinky solutions and instead recommend people to just get the basics right. So i want to thank you guys for being on the show and and talking about this very newest problem with us absolutely and i think i think everybody could do his revisiting the basics and making sure that their bases are covered there. There's no shame in being at the very first step in your security journey. It's just a question of putting the next split right after the other so that was the show for today. I hope you enjoyed it. Get in touch with us through twitter with the hashtag cyber with your feedback comments and ideas. Thanks for listening. Be sure to subscribe.

department of treasury finnish national cybersecurity us department of treasury wrentham Sonal fbi department of the treasury East coast ashley Madison jordan Fabian united states
COVID-19: A Conversation with an Employment Attorney

The EntreLeadership Podcast

21:43 min | 1 year ago

COVID-19: A Conversation with an Employment Attorney

"Hey this is Alex Judd. And this is a bonus episode that our team recorded specifically to bring you hope and practical action items that you can use as a small business owner to tackle this whole corona virus situation. So here's Daniel Tardy with Employment Attorney J K Sims guys Daniel Tardy and entree leadership and Ramsey solutions here. Hey we're coming to you guys As frequently as we can right now because so many small businesses are dealing with new issues and new challenges that they weren't even thinking about back in January and today I'm honored to have a good buddy And a longtime friend. Jk Sims Jk is a employment. Law Attorney and specializes in issues related to Business owners and their employees and all the litigation around like things you should know when it comes to If you're going to change the agreement with your team essentially and so I know. Jk There's a lot of questions right now. Very fluid situation Things are changing quickly with What our administration is pushing through Congress. put down to significant Pieces legislation that are affecting business owners right now so tell me You mentioned before jumped on here. You've been busy. You've had a lot of business owners calling you. What are the types of questions that people have right now? What are people asking? Yeah I mean it's been a really busy. I mean I think back to. Gosh I feel like all of this started on like two or three weeks ago. But they've all kind of run together But they're just trying to navigate this they're trying to figure out. What does this legislation we can talk about? How does that affect me? Does it apply to me? What do I do? How do I pay for it because I want to stay afloat? I mean they don't WanNa have to lay people off. I think is what I'm hearing from them. It's kind of that that there's some fear share which are which are hearing shredder as well but well it seems like business owners have never been in this exact situation where they're having to make some of these pretty extreme decisions this quick and I think we would say there's there's the risk of overreacting also right and getting misinformation What would you advise a business owner? Just as a general you know before you make a big decision related to your team layoffs or you know severance issues time off furlough and we can get into some of the details on that but just as a good guideline before you make a big decision. Where would you start? Yeah I mean I think I You should familiarize familiarize yourself with this legislation because there there has been some this information about it and how it might apply to you but I think kind of taken a breath and looking at looking at your contracts and your expenses that you have there might be some Some ways that you can have a dialogue with your other contractual commitments that you have to where let's say there's term and we'll get too much legal weeds on some of this stuff but a term called force majeure which is in most contracts and that is if there's an act of God how does that impact our duties under this is this qualifying generally as force majeure we talked to one of our vendors and and they said hey this isn't force majeure of course if your if your vendors saying that you're trying to keep the business where does it fall. It very much depends on the language some force majeure clauses. Actually say or government action right in so Corentin if you've got that language so the language is important and the state. The State Law have to disclaimer. Every state is a little bit different on this but the language using that clause is critically important so if you see government action there that has caused the ability to perform under this contract. So that's one thing. Another thing is your contract might have a A where the market forces have changed so much. There's been a material adverse change or material adverse effect that impacts the parties ability to To perform under the contract so again. That just opens up a dialogue. Everyone in the business community. If you're a vendor your supplier you're a business owner everyone's trying to figure it out so pull your contracts see what the language is in that contract. And then maybe that that prompts a conversation with a professional to dive deeper and then too because you mentioned layoffs. I mean there are a number. You know you obviously visitors. They don't WanNa have to do that but they also they wanna see. How can we keep operating? And you've got a number of options there as far as what that might look like. Is this a furlough? Are we just going to say? Hey we're GONNA KINDA HIT PAUSE. We're going to keep you on we're GONNA keep you on for a while you're going to still get your benefits. We don't have work in so we can't pay you. We hope that changes so that's different than a severance different than excitingly. Still employed there. Just no work. No pay for the season does right through and they can. They can draw employment guy ever again every state's going to be different on that but I think in pretty much all states and now with the Federal Act. You're going to have an employment in that situation available to you Again they're still going to get their benefits So that's an option Of course say Termination is another option. I mean some companies. They might end up having close. I mean who knows but I think in all of that you want to minimize your risk when you get to that one of the points to definitely emphasize on that and is make sure that if you're making those types of decisions because even if it's a furlough that's an adverse employment action okay so going to see a lot of litigation come from all of this guy and I was. I was a practicing attorney in two thousand and eight when a lot of people got let go. There was a lot of employment lawsuits fire. Foul business business owners got sued right and they had to demonstrate in that. Why was this person terminated? Why were they a casualty in this? And so being sure that you're using legitimate nondiscriminatory criteria you're looking at Your Business and we've got to cut these positions and because if you're if there's a disparate impact on certain protected classes aren't any protected class. They're more likely to go to the EOC. Follow Charge of discrimination file a lawsuit and so there's just a lot of risk out there and I think if you get to that point where let's say you've gone through and I've looked at our expenses? Maybe we've held back on our payables for awhile. I'm very. We've talked to our firm some help me. We're really busy right now. But the question is when will people pay? Us Attorney's probably not really high up on the list. As far as they're they get paid and that's fine and we realize I've told them I took because normally the first of the month is when we sit our invoices and so for my small business owner of clients on Mike. Let's hold off for you. Know a few weeks But but yeah so. You're looking at that. But then you say maybe I have to. We get we have to make these these decisions in terminate. Just being sure that you're minimizing your risk in that using legitimate. That's this is the legal buzzwords legitimate nondiscriminatory reasons criteria which essentially I think that means that. You're you're looking at the whole versus individual people and you're going the whole business has been impacted by this broader situation out there and I've got essentially maintain objectivity in terms of how I'm looking at making cuts. It's not here's this person that's they. They drove me crazy. Last month is a good time to go ahead and give the boot you know. You're you're really looking at. If I've done everything I can to minimize expenses and this is a last resort and then in terms of documentation and making sure that you've if you ever ended up in litigation someday I think that there's probably certain things that business owners should do to document. Make sure they. You know what? What did you communicate to the team? How is it communicated We see this a lot especially in small business where you just take action. And then later you're wishing you had a few emails to pull from and things like that because if it wasn't written down it's kind of like there's two different versions of that story right. What's good practice? Just in terms of keeping things documented. Yeah we'll just as a general practice being sure I mean we. We say a lot of times and what I do if it's not if it's not in the personnel file. If it's not documented didn't happen right so I think that If you're making these decisions identify the the the position you're laminating and so certain say business units are. GonNa be become less sustainable cocoons. Maybe they lost certain contracts and say will will that business unit. We're going to have to. We don't need as many people in that business unit anymore but just identifying what's the business unit documenting and then you have to internally demographically. What are the demographics if if the EEOC were to receive a charge of discrimination and they saw that all of the people who were terminated as a part of your say you had to reduce your force? Were fifty six years old? They'll happen to be protected. Class right looks discriminatory right and so just again. We're using across the board legitimate criteria and making sure that it's not having a disparate impact and that's documented. Just I mean that's you are just documenting that that here are the factors that went into it and why we had to make the decision. Okay good advice there earlier. You mentioned getting familiar with this new legislation the HR sixty to one and then also the cares that just came out I understand getting familiar with it and I also understand. These are eight hundred pages long. How do I get what I need to know without sitting down and line by line and going through all the legalese it? What's the best way to to get familiar enough? Yeah I mean it it it. It's tough because you're talking to the people watching this. You're busy running a business right. You don't have time to sit and read a nine hundred page piece of legislation and so you gotta think where do I? What's a good source for me? Where can I find some that? I would recommend I let me start by telling you that you don't want to rely upon most of your media outlets as far as summarizing piece of legislation. It's no offense to anybody but it's you know you are talking like you said about nine hundred piece of legislation hundred page piece of legislation and you don't know who summarizing that So the government resources are very helpful so the Department of Labor for the Krona Virus Response Act very helpful. They've got an Faq on there that answers and it's they're adding to it every day almost kind of executive summary. You. Here's what means to be. Here's where it applies a fact sheet So the Department of Labor Department of Treasury With the act. That was just passed the stimulus bill. Which is the Cares Act They're very good resource. The I found one of the best is to be the. Us Chamber of Commerce page. They've got very helpful factual material. There's no agenda on it other than they exist to kind of help businesses. So those are that I think the the Government Resources Department of Labor Department of Treasury where that's impacted Are Very helpful resources? So I you're you're an employment attorney and I mean clearly you've you've got a propensity towards saying people should work with you in a time like this but if I'm a small business owner and I'm trying to cut expenses the idea of having you know one more attorney that I need to pay. Is this time. I really can't afford to not get that second opinion Can I do it myself and read and make these decisions or should I really be working with professional right now? Yeah I get that question a lot even not in these times but it's kind of overwhelming thought for sometimes you think okay if I go hire an attorney you're talking about ten thousand dollars. It's going to cost me and really. I think just having a conversation. Meet with a couple of attorneys. Few attorneys talked to him on the phone. Zoom Witham now right now you may not meet with them but In seeing you know in having a frank discussion on I want to get some advice on navigating this I've got these decisions to make. How much is that going to cost me? Just have that discussion up for. You might be surprised. And it's actually you're talking about if I spent hours with you. It's not talking about a big time. Maybe five hundred thousand bucks. Maybe worth the direction. Yeah for sure I mean because again finding somebody who's a specialist. You're busy running a business and you're not going to be an expert on the exemptions under these acts or what are the tax implications of this and they're just. There's a lot of false from it. You know spending the time that you would otherwise spend trying to kind of figure it out. Yeah don't want to be in court later going. I wish I had spent a thousand Boe. She's been done this right the first time Talk to us a little bit about. I want to dive in on the cares act because so much of our tribe is On the Dave Ramsey plan. We don't do debt no matter what especially loans and especially the SBA in the way. This legislation was pushed down from my understanding is your loan originator is GonNa come through an SBA network at a typical seven alone that would then convert to a grant later if you meet the conditions of not letting your team go. And but what's the Gotcha? Is THE FINE PRINT. There is it. Is it really free money? You know and fun thinking about keeping my team on board versus seeing no matter what. I don't do debt and I have to fight. I mean that's a big decision for a business owner right now. Yeah I mean a great example. They're kind of relying on maybe media reports or summaries of what an act says and then even I got an email the right right after it passed that said. Here's my understanding and it was essentially. It's free money that there's I mean it's a loan but it's not really I mean it's really a grant and you know I should just go apply for that. Well there is fine print and so you should read the fine print and the Department of Treasury. Just I think last night released some guidance. Oh go to their department treasuries website. They have a four page document. Gives you really the terms but a lot of it? We're still trying to figure out much like when the corona virus the paid leave act came for two weeks. We continue to get kind of daily updates more information because the act itself leaves questions and then it's the role of the agency to Kinda fill in. What are some of these questions? Were there unintended consequences? They get letters like from the Chamber of Commerce. Saying how are you going to deal with these things? So there's there are still things about the cares. We don't know but what I do know from reading. It is that there are. You cannot assume that if you go and apply for that loan that you will never have to pay that bad guy that there are strings attached to that in what they WANNA do. And IT'S A it's a. I mean they're trying to keep people from losing their jobs and trying to keep the economy running in that way and so in the same way the Patriot. Act And what they finally did some of that but do read the fine print Where are you getting that information go to Department of Treasury and I think If if you do end up cutting your workforce and if you do end up producing pay that's GONNA trigger in you might not get the The full kind of re were becomes grant not alone so so there are some catches for sure and to be to be cognizant of well. I'm here in. There's there's three kinds of If you think about being a rock and a hard place there's really three big rocks right now that I think most small business owners are challenged with one is they may not have enough revenue coming in to keep their team and they're facing maybe having to let them go but on the other side of this we talked about if you act too quickly on that or or. You're not doing your diligence to make sure you're doing that. Objectively and non-discriminatory ways you could end up in litigation later and the best offer that the government's offering right now might have some strings attached and maybe Too good to be true. And so I think an all these things There's value and slowing down getting a second opinion. Making sure you really understand that you mentioned earlier unintended consequences and and We don't want to under react but we also if we overreact two quick Everybody is kind of this frantic. Go now figure it out and this is not an area. We want to move quickly without really understanding what direction we're going and the consequences of your. I mean a great. A great example is after the paid leave act was was. I passed so that was on March. Eighteenth which gosh that seems like well. That's that was That was passed on March Eighteenth There were a lot of questions when it was when it was first passed And I had once once we saw that look like I had more than one client. Tell me if I have to do this. All just fire them. Because I can't afford to do it. I'm trying to stay operational now. The government is telling me I have to give paid leave to these employees. Who CAN'T COME TO WORK. Because their child's you know because the daycare which is a tough tough position that workers were put in but in each of those conversations. I said we're going to get some guidance because it's not going to take effect yet. Let's let's let's see what happens. And I think the sector of Labour will will hopefully put some relief in there and we saw that they did with the department. So yeah I think taking a breath and not over reacting on it so if you can afford to not make a decision the the week after the legislation is released right. Because you're there's kind of normalizing period where more clarity more guidance and then you can make a more informed decision if you can afford to wait a week or two before making a big action just because the Congress approved it. They're still kind of this period of like. Let's figure out what everybody really thinks. This says and how it can take aspirin. I mean I think we're seeing in their acting quickly on these and they have to and they're doing that for the good of the economy In in workers and small business owners and I mean we saw that pass ninety. I think ninety six almost unanimously in the Senate so that never happens right so everybody was on board but it was but it was quick. And so it's what we're seeing is. It's about a two week process before we even really get to a point. Once it's passed where we a lot of these questions that we have and get an get get answered so Yeah jk this has been really great Before we jump off any final words of encouragement or advice for small business owners out there who are navigating. These turbulent waters. I mean it's It's just really tough times to be in charge of anything in and I feel the weight of it when I talked to clients and so I think just as best you can taking a breath. Like you're like you're saying I think is good being careful on where you're getting your information from And knowing that the people that you're working with the people that you know maybe you rent to in your building. They're trying to figure this out too so there is kind of. I feel in this business community. There's this idea that we're all in this together. You know and so I think just walking with that knowledge. Hopefully everyone kind of well. Maybe you're far rent check being do today April first. Maybe your landlord will give you some grace. On that. In some states it's actually becoming mandated so I don't know we're GONNA. That's an evolving situation. We're going to say too but I think looking where you get information from and just You know taking the time to to breathe a little bit and let the dust settle if you can. I mean realize maybe easier said than done but well as a principal. I think you're spot on and This has been invaluable. Thank you so much and you know. It sounds like a theme as in a win in doubt. Don't go it alone. Get some advice over. Communicate communicate with your vendors with your customers with your legal counsel if you have access to that and if you don't Consider making a couple of phone calls and just get some advice. Because you don't want to regret later you acted too quickly to something that he cut off your nose in spite of your face. And that's not what we want so jake. Thanks for joining us today. Well guys in the entreleadership tribe we know you guys are fighting and you're scrapping and you're doing everything you can to lead forward with confidence right now. We want you to know we believe you have what it takes that together. We're going to weather the storm. We're going to get through this thing and we're going to come out stronger on the other side so keep fighting keep leading and we'll talk to you again very soon. A Lotta people right now are feeling scared and lonely and a little bit panicked and one of the things that I've noticed. Is that a lot of times. Those emotions are just magnified if you're in a leadership position but here's what I want you to hear. You don't have to feel scared and you don't have to do this alone. And that's why our team created entreleadership dot com slash. Hope you see. We exist to help the small business owner win. And that's why for this season. Our team rallied. They worked extra hours to put together some resources. Exactly designed to help you. The small business owner navigate. This turbulent time. So you'RE GONNA get free access to our weekly report tool designed to maximize team communication. You're also going to be able to get free access to some of our top guides and checklists and even a video training that will help you understand how to lead effectively during this time. So if you want to take advantage of all of these free resources just go to entre leadership dot com slash. Hope or text the phrase. Get Hope two three three four four again. That's get hope all one word. No spaces two three three four. You don't have to do this alone. Keep moving forward. Keep serving and let us come alongside you to help. Hey thanks for listening into this bonus episode. WanNa you know that we are creating these episodes for you. The small business owner and so we really really value your feedback. That's why we're launching a bonus episode survey now you can take this survey by texting daily bonus two three three four four four again. That's daily bonus. All one word no spaces two three three four four four. Tell us we you like. Tell us what you didn't like tell us what you'd like to see more of in the future. We'd really love to know how we can better help. Serve you the small business owner right where you are.

business owner attorney Dave Ramsey Congress. Alex Judd Attorney Daniel Tardy Government Resources Departmen Federal Act Department of Labor Department Us Chamber of Commerce Corentin EEOC Department of Treasury Us Attorney Department of Labor EOC SBA Senate
07-01-20 Federal coronavirus aid offers relief and frustrations

Native America Calling

56:30 min | 1 year ago

07-01-20 Federal coronavirus aid offers relief and frustrations

"Welcome to native America calling from Studio Forty nine in. Albuquerque I'm derogate would. The federal government allotted eight billion dollars to try to address the impact of the coronavirus pandemic. It's a significant amount of money, but the distribution was fraught with problems. Conflicts over Alaska. Native corporations receiving funding went to lengthy delays. In addition, the trump administration is putting restrictions on how the money can be used. Any thoughts on this. To hearing from you today on native America, calling. We go live right after the news. This is national native. News Antonio Gonzalez. Native people and their allies recently gathered in Eugene Oregon for an indigenous solidarity event with the Black Community Kale. C. C.'s Brian Bull has more speakers, music and a teepee Mark Gathering Jane Coverdell as Italian cut NATO from Alaska she says for some. This event is more inclusive than others. Over the past month I have heard women and non binary indigenous peoples. Speak about how they didn't feel safe. At certain organizations because of the misogyny. So this is a space where those people can feel safe to show their support. Billy as a yeah, come on indium, he says dialogue as a crucial step towards ending divisions, long lines of class, race and privilege. Some people are more equal than others in this nation. So how do we deal with them I? Think when we talk, we can work out. Differences will be beneficial to all of us. Both billy and coverdale say this isn't detract from the broader message of justice reform empowerment, just that more work needs to happen to make the US a truly inclusive nation. For. National Native News I'm Brian Bowl in Eugene Oregon. The Greater Cincinnati native. American coalition is calling for an end to Indian mascots out Ohio schools. The group's renewed calls come as a virtual school board meaning Tuesday discussed Changing Cincinnati High School's Mascot. The coalition sent a statement to the Forest Hill School board, regarding Anderson Schools are word Mascot Jennifer. knickerbocker is a member of the native coalition. The Greater, Cincinnati Native American coalition. Ford of directors sent a statement to the school district, supporting the removal of the racist mascot, due to its racially insensitive and stereotype, promoting nature that is incongruent with a public institutions obligation to support the civil rights of all students. G. CNA see also supports the Anderson. High School Student Group who have organized a petition to change the skin mascot. The coalition has long called for an end to Indian mascot. Use Out schools including Anderson High, school members of the coalition have written letters attended school board meetings made phone calls and initiated campaigns. The coalition is urging the removal of our word mascot, especially during a time of unrest sin across the United States during the more than one hour, and a half meeting statements for and against changing. The mascot were read. There was no vote by the Forest Hills School district. During the Special Meeting, the school board will continue to examine the mascot issue. The Navajo nation has extended a state of emergency or closer of its government through July. Twenty six, due to Cova nineteen, fifty seven. Our weekend lockdowns are also extended through July twentieth during a virtual town hall, Tuesday. Navajo Nation President Jonathan. Nez said the emergency orders, including curfews, requiring face coverings, and other precautions are working. He pointed to data showing a steady flattening of the curve. Don't load up. Don't back down from this virus. Don't get. Don't just think okay. We're going down now. Don't have to wear a mask. I don't have to wash. You know you gotta continue to do those social distancing. Even, our relatives that are often nation. Tell them to do the same thing. They don't have to be forced to do it you as mom and DAD GRANDMA GRANDPA Nellie. To say hey, do that. Off The nation. Closures of Navajo Casinos are also being extended through July as of Tuesday. The number of Covid, nineteen positive cases for the Navajo nation was more than seven, thousand, five hundred. I'm Antonio Gonzalez. National Native News is produced by Broadcast Corporation with funding by the corporation for public. Broadcasting Support for journalism that raises the awareness of child wellbeing to citizens and to policymakers provided by the Annie E. Casey Foundation building a brighter future for children, families and communities information at ADC F. Dot Org. Support by Mitchell, Hamlin School of law in Saint Paul Minnesota. You can earn your J. D. and specialize in Indian law in a way that fits your life. There are full-time and part-time options both on campus and online more at Mitchell Hamlin Dot E. D. U.. Native voice one the native American radio network. This is native America calling. I'm Taraji would the full economic blow? The coronavirus pandemic is yet to be fully calculated, but the massive financial rescue package rush through Congress is aimed at offsetting some of the initial setbacks, nearly eight billion dollars of that relief package, or now in the hands of tribes to help their citizens and businesses. Get through this challenging time. But the funds were delayed for weeks. There remained some hurdles. The first disagreement was whether Alaska. Native corporations are on the same level as tribes to receive payments. Now that the court settled that issue, the method, the trump administration used to divvy up the funds remains a source of contention. Tribes are suing the federal government over the formula. The US Department of Treasury. Used also tribes are having to navigate the bureaucracy that comes with federal money. We're going to hear about how the aid package is helping tribes in their citizens, and we're also going to talk about some of the things that could have gone better, and what is on the horizon after the money is distributed digit tribe. Get federal relief funding. What are they doing with it? Do you agree with it? Call US and share. The number is one eight, hundred nine. Nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight is the number today we're gonNA. Start off connecting with. Dr Aaron Payment, he is a chairperson of the Sault Sainte Marie tribe of Chippewa Indians. He is also the first vice president of the National Congress of American Indians and he is a citizen of the Sault Sainte Marie tribe of Chippewa Indians our pleasure to have him here chairperson payment welcome. Enables you'll be walking conditioning us? I'm glad to be here. And so chairperson payment Let's talk a little bit about the cares. Act Funding, and how much went to your tribe. What would you like to share with us about that? Yes I've been pretty open about it. we received a thirty-seven million and the first distribution, and then we received an additional seven million. And now that the court has finally ruled that the NC's or eligible. I estimate that they that they will hold back Treasury we will hold back eight ten percent, and then another three to four percent will be distributed, so we should receive another million or so. and so my tribe did fairly well and one of the reasons why I believe we did well. was because over the last thirty years. We have maximized our statement of need and We use our population. Our membership. in our service area is about equal. We project our our need for the Indian. Housing, Block Grant statistic similar to our service area population. Tribes. Have the discretion on that and tribe set that state fully state their their need for that I. Think did well because That's what they primarily based the first chunk of the money on and it. It approximates our service area population. It vastly under approximates our membership. Our membership is thirty seven thousand. Or forty four thousand I'm sorry we're the largest Ibiza. Mississippi and only sixteen. Thousand of our members are counted for ending housing block grant. During, the consultation! I advocated for actual numbers and enrollment from tribes but the federal government didn't do that. They used the smaller statistics, but some tribes have more reservations, centric view, and when they apply for federal grants and the inning housing block grant they they project their need based on people who live on or very close to the reservation, rather than their total need in their service area. And so I think just hearing what you just explained moving forward, and for the future water. Some of the things that you think tribes are learning about how they count, or they figured out who counts in their population Than set were learned that you think tribes are you know should immediately be jumping into or even reconsidering how they report. Absolutely, so I'm a big proponent of the census we count, and we should be counted and I loved twenty years ago. When the census had their campaign, it was listened to the drum, and that's where we all hear that, and we were called to be counted for and and so It's funny, because even the Census US census account, but in some ways it's an. An estimate or or sampling of the actual cup tribes have actual enrollment and so there's some suspicion I suppose with the federal government that we're over counting, or we're enrolling nine hundred people, I guess, but anybody who knows the politics of enrollment, and per capita back home. Know that we are not counting anybody who is not actually Indian and so We really need to move more towards. Using our verified counts and our enrollment counts as our our knee base, and and have more of a focus on our total population, so my tribe we focus on the service area our our council doesn't have that focus for the people who outside of our service area? We only receive funding based on the Census and based on our count for the service area or a or IHS funding, and we don't receive anything so my trump doesn't receive anything for two thirds of our membership that don't live within that territory and so tribes, too. I think come together band together, and we should push that our enrollment statistics are the data that should. Should be used, and we should even be able to when we apply for grants cross validate the US census population, because we know that's an undercount in the county of which is situated Chippewa. County and we happened to be chip off. in Chippewa County. It's a twenty one percent undercount, and so when we see federal funds. We know that we're receiving about twenty five twenty one percent under what we otherwise would get so I, think tribes need to think of this differently rather than having the federal government scope out. What are our population looks like we need to be more assertive and and try to get our full populations counted. When you think about that. One, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four eight injured person payment talked me a little bit about how these funds were used in your tripe. Yes, so during the consultation process, I pushed I in a couple of other key leaders. Push very hard to have the money come to tribes in a self-governance mode, and allow us to meet the needs of our members, because we know best what our needs are, and so you know the different forms of funding the tribes get six thirty eight direct services and self-governance. We're self-governance tribe and so It's very paternalistic the way that the money was distributed with the criteria and the big brother watching you sort of and tribes are very adept at accounting and reporting and auditing everything that we do and so we pushed for maximum flexibility of the use of the funds. Unfortunately, that's not the way it happened. the funds came with all of these strict guidances potentially through the Treasury, they issued guidance that are inconsistent with the law and go far beyond the law Some tribes are doing per capita. Is Not my reputation as permitted under the Federal Guidance and the tribes have been warned that if they use the money outside of that guidance, they may be called upon to pay it back. the money needs to be spent by December thirty first, and so we're hoping we can get some cleanup in a heroes act or some other legislation that will lacks that deadline, and then allow greater flexibility for times to meet the needs of their of their population, and so my tribe again because. Because we got a pretty good chunk but our need is also very great. We we've estimated that are impacts for the closure of our casino in our enterprises is will approximate through the time period end up? September, we'll probably be about one hundred million and so We received about forty, five, million plus an additional fifteen million other other federal relief funds, and so what we've expanded on so far was five million on direct services, because our need is much greater, right? Right now and then five million on cataracts for governmental side, and our side to be able to install air, filtration, systems and touch lists environments with lights and bathrooms that are touch Lewis. and just really anti on making sure that we have waist to eliminate contagion So that's what we spend on so far. We're in the thick of trying to figure out how we spend the rest, but it's a challenge because we have to make sure that we don't run afoul with. With the federal guidelines, and even though I, don't agree with the paternalistic approach We're the Kinda tribe that falls compliance with that so that we don't have to pay money back, but so we have another big chunk that we're trying to figure out how we will spend, but we're. We're confident that will end up spending it on fishermen relief, small business administration travel businesses really and and try to extend as much as possible to counter the impact of dependency on our troublemakers. In so what we're hearing is from one tribe in thinking about use some of these funds, and I know that there's been a lot of reporting and there's also been tribes who have just as you said. chairperson payment have been very transparent of how these funds are being used, and there are different modes and methods of that different tribes are using, and we're hearing a little bit about it today. Today wondering what about in your own tribal community How were some of these relief funds used it start a program What were the things that were the most impacted with the pandemic? Maybe things that had to be put on hold, and then created a bill, or you know things that were going on in the community What are your thoughts? We know a lot of people are talking about how. The gaming industry has been impacted by all of this. Have some of the funding's gone to cover the cost that the casino brings in anything you WANNA share and just trying to understand more about how this all works What about the possibility of future payments any thoughts you want to share with us today? One, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight is the number, and perhaps you are in a community where some of those funds went directly to the citizens What do you think about that? Council? Members You're also welcome to join us to What were some of the critical questions that your community needed to answer in order to understand the best use for these? These funds, and of course was it enough go ahead and give us a ring anything on that you WANNA. Make comments on. Go ahead and dial in. We look forward to hearing from you today. One, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight is the number, and maybe you just have some questions Go ahead and dial in. We got a resource of some great folks with US lined up. Today will introduce you to more coming up after the break, but again now's the time to call in your thoughts anything you want to share about how things are going in your community. In terms of using some of these funds. One Eight, hundred nine nine native is our number. YEA Most theaters remain dark because of the coronavirus pandemic, but that's not stopping native theater companies from getting their workout the masses. Are Hosting. Table reads live on zoom others. Turks boring podcast for download. We'll get a taste of native. On the next native America Calling is on onto got us on. Social distancing. NONINVASIVE ADC that, but because on pick out. Based, on, not only been. On An. Eight healthcare DOT GOV. Base behind a one, eight, zero, zero, three, one, eight, two, five, nine, six, a message from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. You're listening to native. America calling I'm Tara Gatewood from Pueblo and we are talking about Federal Corona virus relief funding today. Did your tribe get money from the government to address the pandemic? Do you know what they're using the money for? Go ahead and share call us at one, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight with us on the line today Dr Aaron Payment He is the chairperson of Sault Sainte Marie, tribe of Chippewa Indians. He's also president of the United. Tribes of Michigan and also vice president of the Midwest Alliance of sovereign tribes. Chairperson payment. Thank you for being here with us. And what did you get a couple of examples when we talk about some of those strict guidelines, what are we talking about? In the way? The money was dispersing in what those guidelines said. Give me an example or several of them go ahead. So first of all, my focus is on meat-based I grew up in poverty. about thought. My heart is always there. That's where I'm focusing initially what I wanted to do is I wanted to set income eligibility at say three or four hundred hundred percent of poverty, and then be able to assist people that way that way, not only the lowest income, but middle income, people and people. You edging up would still be able to get some kind of really because everybody has been impacted but we are advised that alone is not sufficient that we not only have to demonstrate need, but also impact of covid nineteen and so It appears like that will be left to our discretion to interpret that means but it's a very uncomfortable sort of situation because you almost feel like you're being set up for our GOTCHA and So that's why again I think the more appropriate way would have been for them to just disburse the funds to tribes. Throughout the consultation, they kept saying you know how. How were we assured that the money will be spent appropriately, or it'll be accounted for and that it's not used to go to your casino or pay down your debt and so that demonstrated a lack of understanding and the Treasury Department of how how tribes have to follow federal accounting guidelines. We have audits that we perform every year and so It's just another level of big brother watching over everything that we in a in a very paternalistic way in the eighteen hundreds when. When we were put in boarding schools, we were considered wards of the state, and that's the feeling that I get whenever the federal government doesn't understand who they're talking to. The money that goes to states for under the cares act doesn't carry those kind of restrictions The guidance that came out of Treasury for states is is not like a very paternalistic approach that tribes have to endure and so We find that offensive and so we're. We're going to tribes. It's left to tribes to try to decide how to meet their needs. While, not running afoul of of the criteria as it's been established and Treasury building is, there's disparity appearance of disparity between the law allows, and what Treasury has stipulated that we have to stay within the guidelines, and so that's sending mass confusion across Indian. Country about what we can actually use the money for. In if you are in the deep sea of all of that and you want to share some thoughts, go ahead and give us a ring. One, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four eight, also here with us from Reno. Nevada is Arlan Melendez. He is the chairman of the Reno sparks Indian Colony Chairman Melinda's. Thank you for being with US welcome. Thank you good to be here this morning. In German. Let's star tear any thoughts about some of these guidelines that came out with this funding. Go ahead. Yes, well you know we. We have a relatively small tribe. We have about one thousand, one hundred and seventy members wash up I. Located in the city of Reno Pure reservations ones about eighty miles outside of town where we have about fifteen thousand acres so I think that guideline set a lot of confusion. As, far as clarity, I know that the National Congress American Indian. Said sent a letter to Steven, Mnuchin, the secretary of the Treasury and that was back in May, twenty ninth, and they wanted clarification as far as whether or not You know they could actually Pay Tribal members, some type of economic support assistance you know, and that was the a per capita type payments I think that was the biggest challenge because we have tribal members that are pressuring tribal councils to cut them a check. In once one tribe started doing that, you know all the other tribes were in a predicament to try to answer that question, and that was the reason a letter was sent to. The Secretary of Treasury and we never did really get a clear answer, so you know as far as being. Looked at as type of setup, it Kinda peers that way, too many tried tribal leaders, because as you know under the welfare exclusion up. And then we had the treasure advisory committee, which was made up of some tribal leaders. The idea there was that a Treasury with the IRS was coming onto reservations and basically trying to tax, every little assistance at tribes were given to some type of small welfare. Now you have this large amount of money that's come to tribes and so. The Treasury's and the pretty winning situation, because if they give vague vague guidance, basically, tribes are reluctant to to have to pay the money back so they won't spend it, and that means that money be we'll. We'll be recaptured by treasury if they spend it and it's not allowable well when they come and do the audits, the Treasury will benefit again by. By, be recapturing money from the tribes to have paid back. So you know when you really look at it. In many tribal leaders have thought this was a set up that we're GONNA lose as far as the tribes themselves, because it's not clear so tribes. Are you know that's the issue right now? How do you structure this to be able to? Be Able to. Help your individual tribal members in a way. That's allow both. I. Think that's the biggest challenge we're facing right now. And then the other thing when you asked about what you know, because we have to spend this money by the thirty first December you know, many tribes are coming up with plans as the what is closely tied the covert could be anything from. You know isolating people because Kovic shelters it could be. Purchasing. Mobile homes could be all kinds of different things. It could actually be building a house. You know, so. I think there's a lot of areas where tribal tribal. Planning has to come up the tribal councils and say well I. Wonder if this have to be paid back, you know so as you look at even how to spend the rest of the money you're in that dilemma of of you think this will qualify or not so I think it's it's a challenge. Tribal Leadership Councils to make those decisions, and that's what we're doing right now. Are Tribe received I? Believe a seven point eight million for eleven, hundred seventy tribal members, and you know a agree with. Chairman payment that you know. They should use a tribal enrollment data as far as the population because based on population for the I sixty percent. But Anyway we received I think seven point eight million. Then the forty percent we just received, we received another two point one, so we have a total of. Nine point nine million that are tribe received then we received another two million to Indian Health Service, which was a separate amount of covid money that went to our health center. So that's kind of. It's still a challenge, though based on population, so there's not a lot of time to try to come up with a plan how to spend this down. So I think that's the biggest challenge. Have Right now. Intermittent and a lot of times when we get into this discussion yet to bring you back in you know. Bring to the fact that these monies are going to tribal communities because of the pandemic that this isn't just here's a free for all. Here's some money There's a reason for it. In the impact that the pandemic has had on her. Tribal communities is very severe in especially with access to healthcare and so thinking of that chairman. Please share a little bit about how much the coronavirus has impacted your tribe. Are there any cases currently Please give us a view of that as well. yes, you know. are the state of Nevada and as you know, a number of states have had these spikes across the nation. Nevada is one that was. Doing all right until they started opening up the casinos and everything else you know so. The governor has. Is Reluctant to go and what they call three, so he's kind of putting it on hold, and then because we're in the city, we're kind of following in line with we have actually thirty cases at my tribe. On the two reservations, five downtown and eleven out in out in hungry valley is real reservation and you know there's some people that have recovered out of the thirty, so maybe half are recovered, and they're still sixteen that are active, so it's not and there's I think there's other tribes in the state of Nevada that have two or three, so our tribes, probably the highest impact that tribe along with a neighboring tribe, because we're close to the city so. It's really important. You know, and it's really hard. Because we we'd kept our stay at home. Orders are curfews place. We just had a meeting yesterday, so we're gonNA keep ours in place to the end of July, other tribes may open earlier than us, you know, but we we have to really It's depends on how many cases we have until we see that drop off. You know we'd probably are not gonNA. Bring our workers back. We were fortunate though because we didn't have. We have three hundred sixty employers. We didn't really have to lay anybody off off, so we actually. Actually, kept them on board, even though a majority of them were at home on administrative leave, and we were able to keep functioning, and because our tribe does you know certain amount of businesses like We have six smoke shops in the city and you know we were able to keep We closed those for about three weeks because P p.. They didn't have the proper mass and all those things. And when we got them all, we got those PP's out to our snapshots. We reopened again and so they're up and running again. Until we we fared pretty well because of. Basic tax base tribe. You know we tax you know. We have walmarts located on the reservation, and so the in that was essential store that remained opened auto dealerships and things like that remained open, because even though they were restricted on how they sell. You know they weren't totally closed down. So I think you know we were. We're very fortunate. As far as the economics, but yet individual tribal members who don't work for the tribe. That's the challenge we have you know, how do you? How do you really assess who actually is unemployed? Unless you go house to house, and sometimes people are reluctant to tell you their personal information on those types of things, so are trying to set up through our Our Human Services like the Social Service Program and funded through that since it's a mechanism that's already in place. You know we do I. G A and all these different programs that requires application, so we thought that was a good mechanism to put more money into into that sector, and because that has all the requirements of accountability and making sure people. Are Accountable for what they're asking you. What are the needs because they're all different whether or not? It's for you know power, Bill, or whether or not it's worth food or whether or not it's for water payments, or whatever it is, and so people have to come in and. Substantiate what their need is rather than just you know issue of knowledge check and it's all encompassing where where you say covers five different things and here's thousand dollars, and so we thought that might not pass muster with the you know with the audits, or whatever grandma have to pay it back, so, but that's the dilemma that every tribes in. Do you take a chance you know and do you have the funds to back it if you had to pay it back, you know that's the other thing. The other line to that, too, is you know? Would you ask tribal members to repay that as well so much there and chairman Melendez any thoughts about how long it took for funds to even arrive to tribes, any thoughts, and any thoughts about the road bumps because of it. Well it was you know. Tribes were anxious and we didn't really get it on time. I think we got our first I. Sixty percent came on. I, think was may seventh or something like that. And then we just received a second forty percent about a week ago, so it they came in two different. You know so, but we're. You know like you're saying. The second payment came, and we only have till the thirty first of December to spend it, so we lost a lot of money where a lot of time where we could have already been expanding that money if we got it in a timely manner, so kind of works against us in hand you got it in a timely manner. What could you have done? What we could address you know like you know just well. The primary was because of the healthcare and the PPE's. That were really You know they weren't even available, and you had to try to buy them on. Even Brian on the private mark that you know to try to find whoever has them. Not Waiting for the government to send you somewhere else. So that was. There wasn't a lot, so we could have Castro along. Those lines of you know equipped in our community and our And then we could isolated people. You know better you know had places to put them those type things you know whether or not we had to. Rent, a place for them or something like this, so we just you know we weren't prepared for isolating. We have multi generational families living in the same house, and that's the problem we have when one person gets. The whole family is GonNa. Get it next as you can segregate those people out a place to. House them in that is the biggest challenge and the challenge now. Interment how many cases currently exist in your nation? There's well. There's sixteen active cases, even though we've have thirty when we first started on our first case about in March. One death though. Earlier in the year. I'm sorry to hear about that. And as we have done it reporting here, no hell heavy that can weigh on an entire community and chairperson payment. You've given us updates on just how much corona viruses impacted the community anything you WanNa, share where things currently stand. We've got about a couple of minutes before. Break. Go ahead, Cheer Person Payment. Okay! We'll see if we can find him. chairman Melendez as we get ready to you know think about this more Things have been happening in the courts. got a quick minute before. Break anything you WANNA share about some of the activity. Some of the pushback on how the funds were distributed. Anything you want to share. Well I. Think you know one of the challenges we have and. Speaking of the Code Red Virus itself you know, the state of Nevada I think it's spreading, because people are just not adhering to wearing masks, the governor and the state has mandated everyone to wear mass now so and people are pushing back. You know, and that's the challenge because everybody's. Standing on their constitutional rights not to wear masks, they're saying they want. They have a constitutional right to die I mean that's basically what it comes down to. And so, but are tribal. People seem to be pretty cooperative, because they really that the issue is that we have small populations and we get wiped out really easy neighboring tribe in Las Vegas. They only have fifty five members, and if they got the virus, their whole tribe could basically gone in our tribe with only eleven hundred members. It's the same thing. The state of Nevada has a lot of people so whether or not. I'm not saying they look at them as expendable. You know partying, too. How serious the president and everybody's Kinda taken this virus and in economics ahead of people's lives, but I'm saying that I think are tribal. People. Leave here, you know. Sparks are taking it really serious and. We know they're also listening today to. Maybe you want to share some thoughts. One, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight, is number chairman Melendez is here the full hour so is chairperson payment. any thoughts for either of these tribal leaders. Go ahead and give us a ring. One, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight, is the number coming up. World's going to add another voice who has done some research and all this so definitely. Stay tuned. Support for this program provided by the American Indian Higher Education Consortium, the collective spirit and unifying voice of thirty seven tribal colleges and universities, as we learn how to cope during the current pandemic, a heck salutes the many tribal colleges and universities, offering distance learning to keep our communities safe information on a tribal college or university near you at a H.. E., C.. Dot, Org. Thanks for joining us today here on native America calling we are talking about relief funds from the krone of pandemic. Coronavirus pandemic going to tribes We're hearing a little bit about what has happened in two communities about your own What have some of these relief funds gone to in your own tribal community? How long did your tribe have to wait for the funding? Go and share your thoughts today. One, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight is a number with us. Today is chairman of the Reno sparks Indian Colony chairman Arlan Melendez is here with us also here to Dr Payment He is a chairperson of the Sault Sainte Marie tribe of Chippewa Indians Gentlemen. Thank you for being here and chairperson payment when go to you. updates on where things currently stand. With the impact of Covid nineteen go ahead. Share some thoughts. Yeah so first of all I apologize when you called earlier I thought it was speaking, but I was on mute and I. Just wanted to say hello to my good friend Arlen in so so one of the concerns that we had all the way through. It was the money that was diverted to the AMC's. Did necessarily delay the distribution poor tribes. Now we have about six months to spend money We know that we're GONNA. Be Ordering products to protect people like touched us And all of that and we'll be competing with the rest of the country for getting those types of resources, so it made it more difficult if we have a month or two less time to be able to get those orders in, and so also it it doesn't set precedents necessarily, but to define Alaska native corporations is travel. Nations is not appropriate. I'm friends with a lot of the Alaska native villages. Including we have members on the National Congress of American Indians for which I serve per spice and We voted unanimously to to not have our funds diverted from tribal nations to ANC's. They are state incorporated for profit entities Some of the proceeds from those entities trickle down to two villages. That's an instrumentality that unique to Alaska, but it's still got kind of a a smell of. paternalism to it and travel nations in Alaska needed benefit directly, and so we have the challenge now in administering the funds to try to be able to not run afoul with the federal guidelines and to try to spend that money as quickly as we can. Within about six months time period, and that's extremely difficult for some tribes that are very adept at federal funding and spending. It's going to be a challenge for those tribes that don't have capacity. It's going to be nearly impossible in. What are your thoughts on the latest decision out of the Federal Court? Yeah so that look that good was that released? Probably maybe another ten percent of that money will go to the AMC's, and it will not go to the tribes, and then just this very small additional supplement will come to the tribes and our concern is that the definition of a of an American Indian tribe and the tree and trust responsibility belongs squarely with federally recognized tribes and. And that's not to say that we're not sensitive to. State recognized tribes because there's needs there but certainly the EMC's are on the far way out there compared to state recognized upstate recognize tribe to not receive any Sunday, and so for them to leapfrog over tribes that have been either waiting for generations to get recognized and for them to get funding directly is not appropriate. Well, thank you for that and stay tribes. If you're out there if you're tuning in, you are welcome into this conversation to one, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight, is the number My tribal leaders were going to introduce a couple or another voice into the conversation here this time we're gonNA. Go to Boston Massachusetts to say hello to Eric Hinson he is, he is an executive vice president at compass lexicon in. He is also a research affiliate for the Harvard Project. On American Indian Economic Development Eric is chickasaw our pleasure to have him here. Welcome to native America Calling Eric. Always good to talk to you indeed and so, Eric. We know you all do deep dives into all of this and anything. You want to share about how things have been distributed. How long it took or maybe some of the research you've done that opens up more things that need to be discussed. Go ahead, Eric. Sure. Sure I think one of the things that's come through from from both at chairpeople is how. The timing has been squeezed from both ends the initial conception of relief funds where that they would be dispersed within thirty days, and here we are more like ninety days later and the treasure just now talking about getting these funds and a lot of ways because of these restrictions on the expenditures. Some tribes, a number treasure still in the process. If you're a how to how spend the funds in a way that would be useful and run afoul treasuries guidance, so you've got to squeeze from the the early part of the year that's cut off a number of months, and then you've got this rather arbitrary barrier of the end of this calendar year to spend the funds, obviously the coronavirus. And the nineteen impacts are not paying attention to the calendar year. Many tribes won't know have a good handle on exactly what their total expenditures are going to be We heard chairman payments as you know through the end of September. His estimate is one hundred million dollars of additional cost, and the tribe got about forty five million dollars in. Relief funding, so there's a mismatch and how much the estimated costs are. compared to the funding came through, and then there's this rather arbitrary artificial. Mandate tribes spend the money this calendar year, so that's obviously creating some with different tribes. and. Is this something that we should be really paying attention to? Or is this a red flag that the federal government doesn't have exact numbers your thoughts. Sure I think that's that's a great question. It really has been highlighted the last few months. In some sense I think everyone. In Indian, country would would give some credit to federal government you know we keeping the tribes involved in the Relief Fund was important, acting quickly and decisively with a fairly substantial amount of money for different levels of government, including the tribes. That was really important. But often if you make policy or enact emergency legislation, there's been no fight giving whatsoever to the mechanisms by which that money can most. Easily be used most efficiently be used, and and just be most helpful. I'm obviously in the same boat. As as the two other guests I think, trump's extremely. Broad Leeway to use these funds as they see fit and so in just that one aspect. Perhaps the takeaway here's the federal government's Treasury Department every every part of the government's international tribes. Would do better to work with tribes on an ongoing basis in in every possible governmental arena, rather than waiting until you have a crisis enforces this sort of scramble after the fact how to actually administer some some of these types of things. And, you know working tribes you. Could you have a sense of tribes citizenship? Tribes Employment Numbers. It just be an ongoing data collection. Process of you could work with the tribes to make sure that that type of critical information is already held, and you're not trying to generate it from scratch. With a deadline, only three days away to theoretically disperse eight billion dollars to hundreds and hundreds of different tribes it just it obviously sounds like a train wreck of a process, and that's kind of what we've observed N. we're hearing from tribes on on how it mean how it means to be on those tracks, pretty interesting We're going to take a call coming to us out of the HOPI nation in Arizona. Have Tim on the line? Thanks are giving a ring Tim Year on here. Okay, Tim, give us a ring back. One, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight, is the number to join us today and so Eric We'd you know we've said guidelines You've done some research into this. What do you think about them? And are they reasonable? Right so one of the papers we put out at Harvard looked at the first round of funding, which as we curb is tied to population. And what was apparent was. The choice that Treasury made about which population county use is really critical for different tribes, millions tens of millions of dollars depend on that. Category of citizenship and. I think philosophically we agree with the with the chair person you know trouble citizenship tribes. Our government says so. There's citizenship is account of their people. their service areas. We heard this mission of service areas, and that's kind of. The equivalent to what treasuring ended up doing. Initially Treasury has tribes this things like their enrollment numbers, and then kind of a long way chose to ignore those numbers used any healthy block grant. FOR NEW AREA INSTEAD And a familiarity number divergence for many tribes quite substantially from Ashland lohman numbers, so they're sort of level of. Decision making an impact, some tribes beneficially in some time tribes detrimentally. and then you also have digital on ways that we pointed out in some of our research that there were. Nearly thirty tribes that are just in the formula areas with populations of zero. Some tribes that have fairly substantial numbers of enroll citizens are in the block, grant the zero. And so on the face of at that obviously is just not. Not really beneficial to those guys and it costs them. Sometimes substantial dollars from the first round of cares act allocation, and I wonder how much has not been done because of all this. Maybe that's an aspect you WANNA share. You can always reach out to us to. You can send us. EMAILS COMMENTS INTO NATIVE AMERICA CALLING DOT com. think we got tim back and try them coming to us out of the HOPI nation, in Arizona, Tim, thanks for calling back, go ahead. You're on air. Oh okay you know as we move forward, Eric. There is some other things that are connected to this in. Terms of understanding was all this adequate. What is your research shown? Yeah? Sure I mean I I said in a couple of different venues over the last couple of months, tribes had. Sort of a double whammy of impact here. At the same time that. There was a tremendous uptick in social services. Healthcare expenditures the need to expand food to access to hot lunches for children. Adult care senior care for people who couldn't come in me more tribal headquarters in and get lunch every you know all these huge array of expenditures that came from the healthcare crisis success at itself. Ran Into. A near universal closure travel businesses and obviously many many tribes rely substantially on enterprise development for general funds, so at the same time that you might need to to increase your spending dramatically to take care of a number of just basically is you had your revenues tribal revenues drop off the cliff. Thinking about how many charter involved in consumer facing industries, tourism industries that bring people in gaming facility types of things we'll to reopen. Those businesses particularly even reduced capacity. You're going to have to test employees multiple times. You'RE GONNA have to institute. Entirely new public health care regimens that tribes do not have. You're starting from scratch on things that cost quite a bit of money. You're going to have to hire new teams to clean the facility repeatedly day in day a week after week. So in a sense, tribes were seeing a great demand on their. On their need to provide services at the same time, many of their the resources to address those needs. We're just chopped off at the knee. And Eric Is there any entity or organization that is presenting itself to help tribes kind of think about this, and you know even cleaning services. That was a great example that may be you know you're not used to that being something that you need to take care of all of a sudden. This is going to have to happen especially if you're opening facilities, is there any entity that has come forward? And of course you know something that's reliable. We know there's a lot of opportunity for fraud in all of this to Is there anybody coming to help tribes or given out information like that? Anything can share Eric. Sure, so on a on a micro level about different contracting services and things of that nature. You know that's a little bit more down in the weeds in. But I can help you out with, but there are a number of places that people can turn to obviously at the Harvard project. We're talking to people every day. NCAA I is on top of the COVID responses every day the Pfoa in Washington and possibly the best resource for tribes, obviously other Trot like to the web and connections of relations tribes with one another every tribal leader that I talked to is more than interested in talking to other tribal leaders about what's it has been working for them what they might need to keep in mind and so I would really encourage tribal leaders to directly start reaching out to each other if they having. To help get on top of these sort of these planning conundrums that we've heard about today in the show. We're now starting thinking about how to address these issues and we just don't know how to do it. Tribe should talk to one another because there's no need to reinvent the wheel. Try try try then every is. They are they are great. Resources turned back to chairperson Aaron Payment Anything Anti. Dad, or maybe some of the things that NCA it's doing co-head, Shepardson and payment. Okay we're having. Issues think with phone lines data. Help now, hear him okay. Go ahead, chairperson payment it's. It's the phone lines with me. I Apologize. I would say one of the most important things. Is Dr Rubin who who our policy director at NCI? Out Notices and they're updates. Situation Updates the crisis and as best as we can. We know what was happening in the country. It's a challenge because we have checkerboard reservations, and sometimes we have actual data of the impact on our people like the Navajo Nation We don't have that. My dog doesn't have that because we're checkerboard, so we don't know how many of our people have been impacted and so I, would look at urge people to go to the National Congress of American Indians website, and look for those situation updates Dr Rubin, do amazing and she It's the best information that we know that we can get out to advise tribes so that they can keep their people say. All right, thank you for that and as we wrap things up here. What are more things that you have seen arise because of this funding, going to tribes or not going to tribes? Please reach out to us. We are curious. When hear from you you can always find us online native America calling dot com. is where you can find us. You can tweet it to us. At one eight hundred nine native we do look forward to your thoughts, and you can even email me t gatewood at native America calling dot Com thinking to everybody. We heard from today on a program Thank you to Chairman Arlen Melendez. Chairperson Aaron Payment and Eric Hinson tomorrow. We are back and we're going to go to the theater We know that many places have closed down, but our creatives have found a new pathway. Some of them are doing it online. Some of them are starting podcasts. To get native theater to their fans and audiences, we will jump into it. We'll hear some of the things that have been created and It's going to theater tomorrow. We hope you'll meet us here to do that. I'm Tara Gatewood. Support by southwestern Indian Polytechnic Institutes Early Childhood Education Program providing an affordable pathway for the next generation of native teachers who will meet the unique educational needs of native students. Early Childhood Education Associates. Degree is an all inclusive program with mentorship for success in education in an intertribal learning community, Info, and application that S P dot edu under academics, then programs fall application deadline is August seventh. Now Watch the. You're not through. Quite new CDC guidelines undefined on. VK Law one with. I'm GonNa Mike. While more I'll wash. U when when you to healthcare dot, Gov on at. One eight hundred three or need to buy. Something on. Of Care Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. Our Ella. Native America calling is produced in Annenberg National Native Voice Studios in Albuquerque New Mexico by Quantum Broadcast Corporation and native nonprofit media organization. Funding is provided by the corporation for public broadcasting with support from the Public Radio Satellite Service. Music is by Brent Michael Davids native voice one. The native American Radio Network.

America chairman Treasury federal government Arlan Melendez Alaska United States Eric Hinson Nevada National Congress of American Relief Fund Sault Sainte Marie National Native News Antonio Gonzalez Cincinnati Chippewa Indians Dr Aaron Payment Tara Gatewood US Department of Treasury Eugene Oregon
Monitor Show 07:00 01-05-2021 07:00

Bloomberg Radio New York - Recording Feed

01:42 min | 7 months ago

Monitor Show 07:00 01-05-2021 07:00

"How long how. Much how many financial policy and medical experts are working on answers. Twenty four seven. What about public debts. We are listening to those experts. Twenty four seven effectively widening this cap with its programs. Because you want answers to what's the most important of trillions in stimulus economies reopening or the infections curved ending bloomberg radio the bloomberg business app and bloombergradio dot com bloomberg. The world is listening financial capital of the world twenty four hours a day at bloomberg dot com on the bloomberg business app and bloomberg quick tape. This is bloomberg radio path. She'd been january. But i think once we get to june. We're going to be much better shape economically speaking. It's going to start out on a more somber now. We'll be enormous gains in place in this coming back in twenty one years will be some form of simmering slow inflation you could have an economic recovery not necessarily a stock market recovery. All new winter was coming. But then you've got all the bears in hibernation right now. This is bloomberg surveillance with tom. Keene jonathan peril and lisa abramowicz. Good morning everyone. Zero lisa abramowicz and tom keene bloomer surveillance on radio and television thrilled. You're with us a new slow joss doesn't stop and sometimes out of nowhere. There can be an extraordinary new. So that occurred last. Evening is the new york. Stock exchange was simply whipsawed by president trump in an executive order and then also by the department of treasury. We'll get to that.

bloomberg bloomberg radio com bloomberg lisa abramowicz Keene jonathan peril tom keene bloomer bloomberg bears tom joss president trump new york department of treasury
Sample - Cyber Space ft Shawn Henry

Stay Tuned with Preet

18:45 min | 10 months ago

Sample - Cyber Space ft Shawn Henry

"Folks Giancarlo. As many of you know cyberspace is a new cafe podcast that host every. Other Friday. Guess who've made a significant impact in the world of cybersecurity. Join me to explore is at the intersection of law tech and policy. For this week's episode I speak with Sean Henry. Is the president of proud strike. One of the world's leading cybersecurity firms. Company is responsible for protecting investigating cyber related frets. Clients that include the US government and some of the world's biggest corporations. We discuss how to protect next month's election from cyber intrusion. The growth of cyber attacks during the Kobe pandemic. In. How to respond to the plague of ransomware should companies pay or not pay? Today, we're sharing flip from the episode with listeners of stay tuned with pre. Listen to the full. Head to CAFE DOT COM slash insider and trial membership free for two weeks. Interested students with a valid dot edu email can head to cafe dot com slash student. To the many of you have chosen to join the insider community. Thank you for supporting our work. When twenty compared to two thousand sixteen do you think the average consumer of misinformation is in a better? Is a better place today we improved? Are we are we better postured to handle attack? You know it's interesting John You you and I've worked a lot of national security matters separate and apart from cyber and we've talked about. People who've been radicalized and those that have been self radicalized and you just mentioned here a few minutes ago social media and how social media sometimes becomes an echo chamber and the more videos you watch about a particular topic, the more videos that are similar to that are served up and. Sooner rather later that's all you see and hear about, and that's your only source of information. Then it becomes reality for you and I think we've seen a lot of that I think social media has become an echo chamber much like people have been radicalized by terrorist organizations I think they've become radicalized by extremists in in the United States I think that. People just need to be aware of where they're getting information from and to be to be open minded into to watch both sides of an issue. A We know that adversaries are contributing to those echo chambers. They're trying to do exactly what we've seen successfully done by al Qaeda and Isis and others, and because those have been successful campaigns and you're doing the same thing and I think that that consumers of information consumers of the media consumers of the news need to be very open minded and listen to both. Both sides of an issue, both sides of the media so that they can be better informed and you've got to. and. Understand the source of information right if somebody walked up to you on the street and told you something you know you need to give them money or you needed to immediately. You know go lock yourself in your apartment because something was going on. You would question that because you didn't know who that person was. If it was your best friend if it was your best friend or your spouse, you would immediately do what they said because you have full trust and confidence in them but somebody off the street you don't know. Who they are what their motivation is. You know where they come from and I think we have to look at media. The same way is a trusted source and is there is it balanced and is there another side to this piece that I need to educate myself? So that I can make an informed decision and do you do you think in that? In that whole eco-system where this information's getting pushed in social media seen recent announcements by Microsoft germs of whether they are observing facebook has discussed taking down a big Russian effort to to capitalize on their on their platform to put out misinformation. Are they doing enough specific? Actions you should be taking that they're not taking I don't know that I wanNA wait into that. For this reason I think that Congress has been asking the questions I think that there have been efforts made certainly there have been public statements made by. Many of the social media platforms that they are taking efforts, I do know some folks that work for some of these platforms that have told me and I have confidence in them that they are taking efforts. Is it enough or not? I I don't know. I, think that will be born out here in in coming months but I think it's something that we have to be attentive to. Be Attentive to and recognize that their platforms are absolutely a huge influence on Americans perception and ultimately policy and how people react to things and I think that that they are going to have to be held accountable and responsible for that. I'm glad the questions are being asked I'm glad that they are at least publicly making those statements and I'm glad that more citizens are hearing it and hopefully that sensitize them to the potential for those media outlets to be manipulated so that they're they're better educated and they're they become better consumers because of the inch switching gears slightly it we're in a pandemic and I don't know about you but. A. Little bit about you 'cause talked about some but I am seeing a huge growth in the number of victims reaching out because they've been. Attacked during the pandemic by cyber actors, be they criminal groups or nation states in there are some who call over in the midst of a cyber pandemic. What are your thoughts on how covid nineteen? His changed the playing field? For cybersecurity cove it is absolutely made a substantial change in the way people do business. And from a cybersecurity perspective. So of course, companies have pushed their employees out of the corporate stack off the corporate stack, and they're now working many people are calling at work from home. We call it work from anywhere because you really can work from anywhere. Those employees may not be educated they may not have any technical skills that working off a home isp in a home router that they may not have updated. They may not have patched and because they're off the corporate stack many times there's a lack of his ability by the company into what what their employees are doing. Therefore, the target space has gotten much greater and adversaries know that and they're exploiting this hybrid workforce. The companies had on their road map digital transformation to the cloud many companies, and typically it's been a multi year. Process. What we saw in March of this year was that multiyear digital transformation condensed to multi week transformation. It's a growing period and companies are adapting to that but they recognize that their employees are vulnerable and that therefore their network is vulnerable. So covert one, thousand nine has changed the landscape. We are also seeing organizations both organized crime groups, nation states exploiting covid nineteen. What do I mean by that? Not just because target space is bigger but actually using code themed lures in phishing attacks. So you know here's a a news story on. A recent strain that's been identified. You know the people want to click on because they want to protect their health or You know here's a map of the hot spots the the the emerging hotspots reemerging hotspots click on this and it's got malware or or direct you to a website that will download malware to your browser. And then building upon that the economic stimulus that has occurred and building on the covert theme adversaries using that as a lure to get people to execute malware in their environment so that they can gain control and therefore have access to the corporate network. So it's created this ecosystem that is much more vulnerable and much more dispersed and very clearly being exploited. We've seen the number of attacks in our measurement through our Intel in excess of forty five percent greater than this time last year, and we attribute much of that to a post covid environment. Wow forty, five percent year over year increase that that fits in totally with. Seating, but I hadn't heard that a statistic before also noted in your touching on it so. Does this general surge in particular were hearing more about rents were attacks against health care facilities there noted that prosecutors in Germany just opened in negligent homicide investigation in connection with the death of a German woman was turned away from a hospital because they were suffering a ransomware attack and then she later died that's that's a significant steptoe a homicide investigation your thoughts of that may be the first death. That could be attributed to ransomware. Do you think that will change behavior at some of these institutions you know I've always said on people ask me all the time winter people gonna pay attention to this and I've always said when it has a physical impact on them because oftentimes adversary hacks into a network, they steal data and all of it is is somewhat transparent. You don't actually see the data physically leaving. Boxing it up and backing up an eighteen wheel truck to the loading dock to leave it all happens in the ether, and until you see a physical impact in here and I don't have direct information on this. Just what I read in the media about this death that was attributed to the ransomware because they could not conduct the procedure and needed to physically move her. I think that that's those get people's attention I think that we have seen actual attacks on through Iot, the Internet, of things, medical. Devices that have been impacted by by ransomware and remotely by adversaries where at least in in the lab, not necessarily in the wild been able to demonstrate their ability to shut things off or change calibration, which would have an impact on life but I'll I'll take it another step further John and when you think about critical infrastructure like skater systems and the electric power system, and you know dams and transportation and communication where those things can be impacted, and what would the impact beyond life? You're able to shut things down for days or weeks. Some of the attacks we've seen beyond ransomware. You're very familiar with not pitcher and the destructive nature of that attack where whole systems were off line for weeks or in some cases at least operating inefficiently for months because of that attack where physical infrastructure was destroyed and I think that that that's what's on the horizon that's not going away and that that is absolutely. Evidenced by what we're seeing right now with ransomware, the number of attacks were seeing by ransomware on municipalities and hospital systems educational institutions where adversaries don't really care about anything but the dollars and they recognize some of these facilities are not adequately protected. They don't necessarily have the expertise to protect themselves and they don't have the technology to protect themselves, and they can't afford to be down because their constituents need to study need to. Do Surgery need to court system, operate, and have ransomware as locking the files that prohibit that from happening these people gonNA pay. So they're all about the money they're motivated by the finances and not really considering the impact on innocent civilians and that to me we're we are already seeing it at crowd strike and we are going to continue to see those types of of attack because they're effective and they're making people a. Lot of money. I'll last point on that because extrapolating back to the the election if an adversary on organized crime, Group Forget Nation States. We've been talking about nation states and the election organized crime group if they're able to encrypt the voter registration servers who were databases or they're able to access some of the critical infrastructure and shut it down through a ransomware attack or denial service attack one, what impact might that have and to On the actual election itself but onto on the on the the the mentality morale, the concern of citizens if that's able to happen. So said a lot there. So I'll stop talking but these are the things that are concerning me in Alaska is is vital point a word about live just places you're getting hit every day at their thousands of different municipalities involved in an election so. Really could see impact as you say from a ransomware attack on opportunistic criminal group is just out to make a buck that ends. Ends up impacting the sense of fairness of the election even results are ultimately. Tabulated on that you couple of questions. One is if you were. Could make policy tomorrow. Would you make it unlawful to? A ransom also this and I know you've seen fact rules and the thoughts of the Treasury about where money is going and his it is it fueling this and I would say it is fueling it. It's successful. These organized crime groups are making money and they if they weren't making money, they wouldn't continue to do it. So my philosophy is you don't pay, and what you do is you are in the preventive mode and you need to actually have technology in place and you need to have capabilities in place to actually stop this from happening, and if you can't do that, you've actually got the the ability to reconstitute your environment to get yourself back up and running without paying for it. That said, I know companies that have been stuck in a position that they don't have any way to get out and it is potentially. An existential threat to them that they. They've got such critical data that is now on unrecoverable that they need to get it back and you know they make a business decision and I don't I don't subscribe to paying those paying those ransoms because it does encourage and allow this to persist but I, I understand why some companies have done that two important points they are. So one is. Saying is if you want to avoid being in the situation where you feel like you need to make a payment as business or municipality. Edition two defensive steps could one of the most important defensive steps you can think about now. Sure. You'll join me Sean in saying everyone after they've suffered. One of these acts spends a lot more both time actual resources on resilience and these days it's harder to have backups because the bad guys looked to get high level access systems if they can. Go after the backups you need to make sure that they're both backed up in separate from network also that those who have access to it. Very few. Their counselor monitors have multi factor authentication, other words not just using password and the other thing you bring up is. Last. Week there was guidance put out by the Department of Treasury and specifically the part of the Department of Treasury administers sanctions on says, Hey, this this country is a country where you can't do business with them using the US dollar or it's violation or a criminal group. They've designated famously areas actually criminal group that goes by the name Evil Corporation just in case you. Had any doubts about whether what they were doing evil they've named themselves evil Treasury Department has designated that grew. So that means if they're designated than, it would be unlawful to make a payment. So the way the law works right now it's designated entity in the Permitted to make a payment, but if it is. All the other groups that are out there that haven't been designated yet legally permissible and that John you're you're saying you're hearing people not to pay I don't hear you going so far as to say that. That the the law should change to make it illegal I honestly want to see people focusing on preventing this from happening. I I subscribe to the fact that if you pay we, you are encouraging this to happen again to your neighbor to your to in your industry to others around the globe because again, this is not focused on the US is a global issue and it's going to go on indefinitely and some of. These adversaries are in places where law enforcement is never going to get access to them. Therefore, they will continue uninterrupted because the return on investment is substantial companies need to invest in their into their system, the need to put strategic programs in place then you to to have technology that allows them to identify these attacks and disrupt before they impact them, I i. Think John About Again, I said earlier lots of physical and. Digital. Similarities and you think about people somebody who might be severely overweight. They don't eat right they don't exercise they smoke and as soon as they have a heart attack, the don't WanNA weight loss program. I hope you've enjoyed the sample from the cyberspace broadcast to listen to our full conversation and access all other cafe insider content. Try The membership free for two weeks. Interested students with valid dot edu email can head to cafe dot com slash student to the many of you who've chosen to join the insider community. Thank you for supporting.

ransomware United States John Sean Henry US government president Giancarlo Boxing Treasury Alaska Intel Department of Treasury Germany facebook Microsoft Iot
Gas stations, airline feel effects of fuel pipeline cyberattack

Marketplace Morning Report with David Brancaccio

08:32 min | 2 months ago

Gas stations, airline feel effects of fuel pipeline cyberattack

"This marketplace podcast is supported by equifax the world's digital infrastructure company looking for the choice and control of hardware with the low overhead and developer experience of the cloud deploy x. metal in minutes across eighteen global locations from silicon valley to sydney. Just add metal. At metal dot equinox dot com this marketplace podcast is supported by out systems the application platform that enables every company to innovate through software out. Systems accelerates the development of business critical cloud applications build the difference without systems for more information visit out systems dot com slash action drivers and flyers are starting to see the effects of cyber attack on long distance fuel pipelines. I'm david brancaccio. The operator of the set of fuel pipelines hit by what authorities say is an international cyberattack. Thinks it systems will not be working again until the end of the week. Earliest the us department of treasury energy and justice or now involve this is affecting how people get to where they want to go. Marketplace's and dealer joins us from texas with the latest. Yeah david the the fact of the matter is we still don't have any fuel running through the pipeline and we're already seeing some of the effects of that. I told you yesterday that big cities in the southeastern. Us could feel worse this and so far. That's exactly what's happening patrick. Dehaan at gas estimated. Seven percent of gas stations in virginia were out of fuel as of last night and social say alabama maryland tennessee could experience some outages to folk scramble for fuel supplies later this week. Now we're also nearing that psychological three dollar threshold for gas prices around the nation. Something we haven't seen since two thousand fourteen right as it's coming right as we get ready for the unofficial start of summer and folks had off for road trips over memorial day weekend. It's not just drivers finding some dry service stations. Which is what happens when too many people start topping off tanks just to be on the safe side but it's not as them that's exactly right. American airlines decided yesterday that had to add a stop to too long haul flights out of charlotte north carolina because just the lack of jet fuel. America's daily flight from charleston. Honolulu will now stop in dallas and charlotte to london will stop in boston for additional fuel. The airline said that the two impacted flights are expected to return to the original schedule on may fifteenth. But again that just depends on whether colonial can get things up and running by then indeed. Euler in austin thank you. This pipeline situation put critical infrastructure risk on display even beyond fuel as we were just talking our scott. Tong had a piece in last night's marketplace. That's available now with one click marketplace dot org for that rosa watching drooping stock prices yesterday. The nasdaq index where a lot of technology stocks fell two point six percent judging from futures this morning and immediate turnaround may not be in the offing. Marketplace's nova sophos helping us monitor the market screens. This morning big tech companies have reap the benefits of the pandemic era both from consumers who have been buying up their services and gadgets and from others who have sent stock prices soaring so the sell off. Those same companies is significant by comparison shares in household names. Such as netflix amazon. An apple fell between two to three percent yesterday. Perhaps that's because of a report from group warning that digital ad growth is likely to slow analysts. Suspect inflation worries are playing a role still over a twelve month period. Big tech stocks are doing quite well. Shares of apple and google parent alphabet are both up more than sixty percent and facebook which gave up more than four percent in value. Yesterday is still up. Forty four percent since last may. I'm nova software former place. The nasdaq future now is down. One point. three percent the s. and p. future is down seven tenths percent the key stock index in europe. Amsterdam's eight x is down two point six percent this marketplace podcast is supported by jamf. Now jamf now makes it easy to manage and protect your apple devices as business grows so does its digital inventory making it harder to manage. Everyone's apple devices especially with offsite workers jamf now makes. It tasks simple. Like deploying wifi and email settings securing company data enforcing passcodes and more. Get done and get back to business with jamf now marketplace listeners. Secure your business today by setting up three devices for free. Add more for just two dollars. A month per device get started at jamf dot com slash. morning that's j. m. f. dot com slash morning a federal covid relief program to help low income consumers pay. Their internet. bills will start taking applications tomorrow. The emergency broadband benefit program. It offers discounts on internet bills and an allowance to help pay for. Maybe a new computer. Marketplace's nancy marshall genzer has more on who is eligible one monday morning last year right before christmas bernardine ramsey woke up to trouble ramsey who lives in washington. Dc with her husband and ten year old daughter was up early to study for an it training. Course she's taking but there was no wifi signal. Oh that was very very alarming. When i don't see that in the morning ramsey's internet was out for a full week. Her daughter nyah couldn't use the laptop. She got from school for her virtual lessons. Ramsey turn the data on for her phone and they shared it nias squinting at the small screen for her classes during the day ramsey using it to study at night but they'll have my phone so Fulfill we were able to get on her and you know her myself as well. When's he says her. Internet is fixed now. But it's still slow. If ramsey qualifies for the emergency broadbent benefit program. She'll get up to fifty dollars a month towards broadband service. Ramsey says she use it to upgrade internet. She could also get one hundred dollars discount on a new computer. Her ten year old desktop recently bit the dust. It looks like ramsey would qualify yosef petacci show is with the consumer group common cause the eligibility criteria for. This program is pretty broad guitar. Says you all qualify. If you're in a government program like snap were medicaid. Ramsey's enrolled in medicaid. so she's eligible. You also call a fi if your income is at or below one hundred thirty five percent of the federal poverty line or if your income took a substantial hit from job loss. But there's a catch says gd sewn georgetown law institute for technology law and policy. This is temporary. I think it's important to note that the digital divide doesn't go away when the pandemic does and it's important to have a permanent program congress allocated about three billion dollars for the emergency broadband benefit. The program ends when the money's gone or six months after the federal government declares. The pandemic is over. I'm nancy marshall genzer for marketplace. And mattel is gonna let you recycle barbie not in the compost heap. It starting a thing where you print out a shipping label from the mattel website and send back used toys in the company will reuse what they can reuse mattel's aiming for one hundred percent recycled recyclable or bio based materials by the end of this decade. Our producers are meredith. Garretson stephen ryan daniels. Shinhan erica soderstrom. I'm david brancaccio. They're listening to the marketplace morning report from apm american public media this marketplace. Podcast is supported by wobbly. Are you a small. Business owner self-employed or ag- worker. Wamsley has helped over one hundred thousand small businesses. Get a ppp stimulus loan and proudly serves more than six hundred thousand. Small businesses across america. Wamplers their p fastlane with gig workers in mind act fast as funds are limited apply now at wampler dot com slash morning and see if you qualify for a ppp loan and see the terms and program rules that's w. m. p. l. y. dot com slash morning.

david brancaccio us department of treasury Dehaan ramsey apple charlotte nancy marshall equifax silicon valley Euler Ramsey bernardine ramsey American airlines Us
The Federal Eviction Ban is Ending. What Now?

GovExec Daily

14:06 min | Last month

The Federal Eviction Ban is Ending. What Now?

"This is david the federal stories. That really matter is june eleventh. Twenty twenty one. I'm adam butler. The federal eviction moratorium protecting millions of renters set to expire at the end of the month even the burden on states to create a rental assistance projects and other actions to avoid a rash addictions. The cdc moratorium has provided protection for more than forty three million renters across the country. But the moratorium expiring month would leave four to five million households at least three months behind on rent. So what's next. What plans do local and federal agencies have after the ban. Andrew noble is a staff correspondent for our sister publication row fifty. She'll join us after the break to discuss. What long term effects. The ending of the eviction ban could impact both local and federal government agency. The most anticipated defensive is coming up this june in its sixth year. The annual defense one tech summit will explore the future of emerging technologies and. They're likely impact on the national security tactics and strategies of tomorrow. Don't miss your chance to hear from defense. Technology and artificial intelligence experts tune in from june twenty first through the twenty fifth for more details on the week-long summit visit defense one dot com slash events. That's defense o. N. e. e. dot com slash events federal eviction moratorium protect. Millions of renters is set to expire in a month leaving the burden. Stay secrete rental assistance programs at other actions to avoid a rash of fictions to cdc moratorium has provided protection for more than forty three million renta's across the country it will leave four to five million households at least three months behind on rent. So what's next. What plans do local and federal agencies have after the ban andhra noble is a staff correspondent for our sister. Publication row fifty. She joins us now to discuss. How ending the ban could impact both local and federal government agencies andrew. Thank you for joining me having no problem at all so We haven't talked about the moratorium eviction moratorium on this show for whow So before we get before we start talking about how it may be coming to an end. Let's just sorta refreshed audience. A what eviction moratorium is. Why was there a vic victim. Moratorium basic the basic information about that. Yeah absolutely so. The current cdc eviction moratorium. That's in place was put in place in september And it's been extended a couple times so right now. It's set to expire at the end of june But basically what would it did is provided protection to renters all across the country so like an estimated forty. Three million renters are protected by this Essentially you know the the reason it was put into place you know. A lot of people lost jobs over the pandemic where they had their hours cut. You know you're you're not having the same level of income so it's really hard to pay your rent And you know if you're unable to pay that obviously a lot of landlords want you out you know if you're not paying you need to get out so the more time was put in place by the cdc for a couple of reasons one. The cdc was saying If people are being evicted in the middle of a pandemic that can be a public health problem. Essentially you know a places still had Kind of differ restrictions in place people being asked to quarantine they were exposed or they had been becca was kobe. So the Moratorium in place saying essentially. It's going to be a lot easier for people to quarantine to protect themselves to control the spread of the virus if they have homes if people are homeless. You know you are either living on the street so you can't abide by state hoarder Or you're living in a shelter. You know some sort of congregate setting in which it's a lot easier for For the virus to spread and so they made the argument that having moratorium was going to enhancing was going to protect public health because it would help prevent spread of the virus. So that order was put in place in september and as i said it's It protects the wide range of enters. Essentially they just have to Sign a declaration. Saying they had some sort of like income issue as a result and they can't pay their rent during the pandemic and so that that should protect them from any landlords trying to get them out if they're behind on the rent Does it protect landlords as well. You are someone this rental property. Some one of your interview orlando did. The moratorium protect them. No it was just for renter. So there there's been. Some issues brought up by landlords. And there's been some landlords who have tried to challenge the authority of the. Cdc saying this wasn't necessarily legal that they didn't have the legal authority to to do this. So there's That's something that's kind of ongoing There's a particular case in which the association of realtors had filed a suit they had challenged the cdc on this of federal judge had actually ruled in their favour and had struck down the eviction moratorium But essentially in in cases like this like national significant oftentimes people appeal. That was what was happening. In this case so that ruling would have potentially lifted moratorium. But that ruling was put on hold while the case was being appealed. So right now There's a petition. That's up to the supreme court and they're weighing whether they're going to get involved or not So we could have something. Come out on that but at the same time. The moratorium is expected to expire at the end of june. So it's kind of a running down the clock on that one. Yeah that was gonna be my next question. So why now. Why is it the moratorium ending now or at the end of june. Yeah we'll so at at At the beginning when it was first put in place it was just put in place till december kinda moving time line. I mean autumn. I think folks understood that. This was pretty significant And a lot of Landlords weren't able to collect rent So wall tenants weren't paying in. We're protected from a lot of those landlords still had to pay their own mortgages. They had to pay their own bills so they were kind of stuck in the middle squeeze because they weren't getting kind of a protection in the same way so the idea was that this would be put in place it would give protection for certain amount of time kinda until things got back to normal. Tell people could get back to work could start. Earning income again The other thing is there has been a lot of consi aid that is being in the process of being distributed Congress approved a couple of different programs that doled out a total of forty seven billion dollars in emergency rental assistance. So that money is supposed to be able to go out and help the renters who are behind get caught up on their rent and be able to pay that so that once the moratoriums do expire. They aren't just kicked out because they have fifteen thousand dollars in back rent at the cafe so the moratoriums were there to kind of provide this buffer protection. Now what's starting to happen is Local look these are the ones who are doling out this emergency rental assistance money across the country. You know so far. There's there's nearly like a four hundred different programs that are registered with the department of treasury to do that yet. Four hundred different programs you learn different sets of rules. Yeah four hundred different groups that are trying to deal with this. There's a lot of differences between how these programs are being run and overseen and whether they've been able to get up and running yet so so that's kind of People are essentially trying to get these programmes up and running so they can provide that money to renters before the moratorium ends. His eighty is that you wanna be able to get that money to people so they can pay their background then moratoriumon so they've been able to maybe get that assistance paid out and then they aren't just gonna evicted as soon as the moratorium lifts because they've been able to deal with. Some of those issues is how people wanted to work. That's run out of where we all right now. Yeah yeah because they get in. This brings me to my next question. Is you know for us. We talked to federal employees but what type of impact on the federal government and on local governments as well. Yeah so what's happening at. The local level is a lot of on states or cities are seeing that this moratorium this federal more volume is going to expire. They a lot of them are still in the process of trying to get their rental assistance programs. Either set up trying to figure out how that people in deal with the onslaught of applications that they're getting so they are actually extending their own moratoriums in their own cities or their own states to protect their renters so alec in new york. They tended one through august. Because they're kind of like just now getting their rental of money out the door like they just got the applications. I think like a week ago to be able for people to apply for that program so different cities and states are trying to kind of create their own windows to protect people based off of like how quickly they think they're going to be able to get the rental assistance out the door. And so you know what will end on this you know. Obviously they are housing. Experts and people don't necessarily agree that the ban should come to an end so soon. I'm how long do they how to experts suggested that the ban should last and What suggestions do they have. People that may be facing eviction Add in a month. Yeah So there wasn't when i talked to a bunch of folks across different housing groups. There wasn't like a set time for like this month is when it should be okay to lift the ban. It's more along the lines of you. Should you know if you're a city your state government. You should try to time your own moratorium to how quickly you think you can get your rental assistance program up and running and functional and get that money distributed so it's going be kinda on a localized spaces at this point. A lot of folks are kind of resigned to the back that there's a lot of things reopening people run back to work Don't think that they're going to be able to make the argument that the federal ban should be extended beyond june Just based on some of the different You know kind of how quickly things are starting to rebound again. There's also these court cases that are challenging so even if they did extend it there could be the possibility that You know the supreme court shut it down so we're kind of wrestling with that The thing that i've heard over and over again is you know you wanna have kind of protection and padding in place of having a rental assistance program available up and running functional getting money to tenants so that they can get it and that they can be to pay that to their landlords as soon as the eviction ends. You don't just have a moratorium men's that you don't just have a wave of victims after that because that's everyone's big fear is so many. He bore so behind on rent. You know you're knocking mailed. Come up with you know. Three months rent. Four months ran out of nowhere. Working probably already spent a lot of your savings at as it is so you know. There's some different predictions on like how many people are actually like behind on rent right now. kind of the latest estimates that i heard were between four and five million people who are are three months or more behind on rent. So that's across the country you know depending on the population of your city like you'd be cities don't want to see a ton of people thrown out in a victim from their homes. All of a sudden reads a lot of cost Creates a lot of social issues for them to deal with who freed Other cost issues for the cities to have to deal with. You have a lot more people coming into your homeless shelters. A lot of people having other problems as a result of losing their home. There's a whole host of other social issues that that the city has to deal with. If you get a hundred thousand people tossed out of their apartments all of a sudden right right. Yeah i mean. This is a domino effect. You know is is the people being. Don't out of their homes and you know At into the homeless population. So let's hope that you know we can continue to correctness and hopefully You know people can come out of this on the other side Safe and sound zone way. i can put it Thank you so much joining the show. Thank you thanks for listening to governor say daily our show is hosted and produced by me. Adam butler i wanna thank route fifty andhra noble for joining the program. I'm music is a song signals by cafes dance. We should rate and review and subscribe on apple. Podcasts google podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast you email us. Any feedback and podcast governor exact dot com or hit a simple twitter at gaza. We love to hear from you.

cdc adam butler Andrew noble association of realtors renta department of treasury becca andrew supreme court david orlando Congress alec federal government new york wrestling Adam butler apple
Hacking Satellites for Fun & Profit

Firewalls Don't Stop Dragons Podcast

1:05:05 hr | Last month

Hacking Satellites for Fun & Profit

"Hey this is jason williams. And this is carl radio and you're listening to carry parker on the firewalls. Don't stop dragons podcasts. Thanks for listening. Hello everybody welcome to firewalls. Don't stop dragons this as episode two hundred and twenty five for june twenty-first twenty twenty one. And we've got a really interesting interview for you today. it's about hacking satellites We've talked about lots of cybersecurity topics. Before and i'm pretty sure i've never talked about hacking satellites. But if you think about these things are just computers in space. They've got radios because they've got to talk to the ground. So so you can kind of think of them like nest thermostats or Baby monitors circling the planet at a few thousand miles above the surface. So i'm going to be doing things a little bit differently for this interview and the next interview Normally i would split these up and do offer to shows Actually two interviews back to back. But i'm going to do both interviews as complete shows so to shows two completely different interviews. And i think moving forward. I may start doing that more than the new shows of gotten longer. So kinda clock in about an hour per show anyway so. I think i might just start doing interview. The news interview the news and keeping altogether. We'll see You're welcome to send me. Feedback on that. Neither dischord if you're a You can say email feedback and firewalls. Don't stop dragons dot com If you have any thoughts of that. But i'm kind of leaning go that way i've got so many interviews and backed up and so by the time the error sometimes the things. We talk about seem antiquated because it was recorded two months prior to airing so anyway we will be having today in its entirety are wonderful interview with jason williams and call rodeo but before we get into that a couple of quick news items for you if you want to get that challenge. Coin that really super cool. Fantasy based d twenty point. I made Which there are only one hundred on the entire planet. Now is your time. The i'm going to end the promotion at the end of june. And i will still have some coins leftover. So who knows what i may do with some of those in the future. But if you want to lock one of those puppies in get them while you can go to. Patriots dot com search for firewalls. Don't stop dragons Of course look for the lincoln the show notes that will get you there as well and if you wanna learn more about the coin goto the dotes dragons dot com and look for the recent article that challenge coin. You'll get all the info there but it's really cool. I'm so glad. I did this They've been a lot of fun. And i'm sure i'm going to have some fun. Uses for those down the line and you know one more thing. I'll mentioned that. I don't talk about it much but this is a great under bring it up is another bonus. I've been giving to patrons bonus podcast content and other things i'd like to ask. The guests is kind of their origin story. You know how do they get to be where the today. And i did that. For both carlin. Jason got some great stories but in particular i got lots of bonus content from these I don't always have time to do that. Guests have time limitations. Or whatever. But i got plenty of good stories from from crowley jason and i got some defcon stories from these guys. That are really amazing and one of the things i asked them. Because they're you know they're not newbies like me is when you're going to defcon. How do you prepare for that. You know you hear all these urban myths potentially about don't bring your regular computer or don't bring your regular smartphone. I mean you're going to identify hackers. It's going to get hacked. So if that's the case what do you do. And i asked the question. And they answered so Anyway if you were again just another bone patron so go to patriot. dot com. Check that out and this week. I've got some really great extra bonus content from these guys next up you only up till june twenty third. Which even if you listen to this on the day it drops only two more days to get fifty five percent off of my book at a press dot com. That's a crazy sale. They have sales from time to time. But i don't remember them ever doing one quite that big and because they just recently also dropped the price of my book. There's literally never been a better time to get the book at least in terms of price. So if you ever thought about getting done if you've got an older addition that you wanna update if you want get some as gifts good a press dot com use code summer twenty twenty one and get a killer deal On the book and every book they offer also again. I know this sounds like a repeat and it is. But it's for new reasons if you've got chrome or windows or basically any adobe product whatsoever make sure you get them updated. Their spent some nasty bugs found in those so now as usual. Keep that software up-to-date all right So let me say at the center. i'm not gonna lie. Today's episode is going to sound. Maybe a little technical. There's going be some jargon thrown around but as usual. Don't let that cloud the bigger picture. This is really a cool project and it's a testament really to how the us government is taking cybersecurity more seriously and it's a template for how we make things more secure in general the way we make sure that stuff is good as we vetted we put through its paces we run we run the gauntlet and you gotta get more people looking at things. You gotta can't grade your own homework. We need projects like this. The one we're going to talk about today and bug bounty programs that other similar programs to shop these things around to get these things out in front of other people and throw a little bit of money into the mix to make it interesting. We're gonna be talking today about hacking satellites and how the us government And some corporations that work for them are banding together to come up with programs to let hackers anybody which could be anybody Beat on these things and see if they can find chinks in the armor so today we're going to be talking with two gentlemen from three different corporations working with the us government and military groups. Do try to beef up the security of the satellites in orbit over our heads and one quick disclaimer. That they asked me to to put up. Here they're here representing themselves. They're not representing their corporations or the us government so with that without any further delay. Let's get to our really cool interview with jason. Carl about hackensack. Ooh junior is a principal cybersecurity engineer for the mutter corporations morning the us space force defensive cyber operations for space systems. Say that three times. Fast mitre operates federally funded research and development centers or f f rdc's which support the us government and a variety of capacities. I welcome to the show carl. I thanks for having me appreciate getting a little bit about this area. I cannot wait Just williams as a security researcher engineer and ceo of crumlin llc and member of legitimate business syndicate with the organizers of defcon cto. From twelve to twenty seventeen. He's got fifteen plus years experience in cybersecurity and vulnerability research. Welcome jason. Thanks gary and look to this kind of a mutual friend of ours. Maybe not all of ours individually melanie. Reach out to me about this and wanted originally to kind of do a blog post. 'cause you guys got something really cool coming up that i wanted to kind of publicize which we will talk about But i thought hey. I'd love to get these guys i for an interview and so i'm really glad you guys agreed to do this. And the topic. We're gonna talk about today. Is hacking satellites which is really cool and also really scary. So i can't wait to dive into that before we get into all those details though. Tell me a little bit more about You know how you guys got to do what you did. And you know what your individual organizations are up to jason. Why don't we start with you. Yeah so hackensack. Actually kind a brainstorming ideas by. I got any breakdown. A good friend of mine and known him a long time and he was always wanting to do a competition. Similar to capture. The flag style competitions that they do for depth com with satellite focused towards that. And he's kind of. I think it was his idea. And his genesis of it and We knew some of the folks that have been involved in cyber grand challenge and within the government and they knew of our capabilities and we got invited launch do some the technical aspects of that the competition infrastructure and so forth and how milli- ended up a ball and what else is crime analyst. You is what else was under your purview. So we do cyber security. We primarily work for the dod but we also do red team settlements commercial as well so we do a lot of abilities there and A lot of advanced technology development with darpa and so forth so that's primarily what we're focused on. Cool all right. how about yourself. Yeah so So basically have been kind of working in information security cyber security Before it was actually called that. So i guess i kind of Start as billion for the department of treasury in about two thousand two and that was kind of one folks started kind of saying. Hey maybe we should pay more attention to the security of our computer systems to kind of do a lot important stuff for the federal government. And so i got in sort of at the ground floor there. That's when things started to actually really pick up in terms of taking this problem seriously and got to do some pretty interesting stuff because there weren't a lot of folks that were working on You know in that area at the time and then from there Work work for treasury for about four years and start working for the mitre corporation and basically have worked in a number of different capacities for the for the federal government. Doing what is now cyber security in so interested. Sort of taken me into more of the niche areas so Spent decent while. We're looking at isis Security that was pretty interesting and then With a lot of the changes in sort of the space domain and a lot of You know with the senate space for some of those things Dot gut into looking at space system security and That's been something i've been working on for about the last four years and that's really a definitely an interesting area so i'm glad that you're having us on to talk about this. He cannot wait to dive into the details. Real quick might. I've heard of them before. But what what do they do in general. What are the things that they anti right. So the meyer corporation is a company that basically operates federally funded research and development centers. And so it's not for profit and there are a number different effort. He sees for different parts of the federal government focused on a different problems. So basically it's a company that kind of works in the public interest and You know kind of Primarily works for the federal government to solve some of the hardest problems because challenges and the a significant bit of our work is focused on cybersecurity and so Know we got opportunities can help different parts of the government with that problem in you know. There's a decent chunk of the company that works with the air force and now space force. And so that's the part of the company am supporting currently very cool. Have you guys out there doing what you're doing because obviously things are petrified that right now cyber security but let's talk specifically about satellites which i don't think i've ever done on the program before so this is really cool. Let's start with some basics though. So i'm you know i'm guessing most people in the listening audience. Are you know they're aware that. Gps is a satellite-based service. But were they may not be aware of. I don't think is how critical. This single system is has become for global commerce and infrastructure and a national defense. So would you kind of walk me through like in. What ways are dependent on a fully functional global positioning system. Sure i'll. I'll take a stab at that one so So basically. gps is one of the deities systems. That probably has one of the most broad reach in terms of criticality and application to kind of everyday life for folks in the us and other countries even so a lot of folks don't realize it but gps is not just about kind of figuring out where you are are on earth. That's a large part of it but there's also a timing aspect to it so. Gps is is a major part of what they call the pnt system or position navigation and timing food and so the time aspect is something that a lot of folks. Don't think about too much but it's almost as important more important than the other services jeep guests provides and so just to give you some examples you know the timing aspect of. Gps is critical for you know. Electric power generation and transmission so basically generators that are generating power that go onto electrical grid have to be all synchronized in order to transmit that power or generate the power at the appropriate frequencies and without precision timing. That wouldn't work right. And so you know there have been a some experiments that have looked at what happens. If you know things get out of sync and You know permanent. Energy actually didn't experiment where they demonstrate that a cyber attack could could kind of blown generator if it got out of sync and so yeah that was called the aurora experiment. So so i believe that was done in two thousand seven or so but in any case some that is very critical for financial industry timings also critical so a stock trading on wall street for example that also has a precision timing sort of aspect to it. You know all those trades happening at the right times is very important. And there's a lot of folks spent a lot of effort trying to beat each other and get trades in a little bit just milliseconds faster than the other guy but even other things like global shipping and getting boats around the the world getting planes around the world truck drivers there are a lot of those logistics and things are covered by knowing where all these things already given moment self driving cars. Harsh right right. So what other sorts of critical services dependent either fully or partially on satellite. Today we talked about gps. But there's obviously a lot other satellites up there doing a lot of other things. What other ways to satellites play in our everyday lives that we might not realise. Yeah so. I'll take this question. I had a chance. Actually the four noes facility out in wallops island and one of the things that i i notice most lists you know the weather. Observation satellites meal take for granted all the weather data that we receive the environmental atmospheric data. All of that comes from satellite so he can't overlook count warden whether it's our daily lives and the economic impacts of it as well accurate weather forecasting as something that you know very essential to our modern lives and without that leo. I live in to space. Ghost of florida here. Without that we wouldn't be able to plan you know hurricanes and their tracks and so forth and make appropriate actions from that so that's one of the most important things that i've kinda see in my daily life but also you know the science aspects as well. There's another one that comes from me. The space based telescopes had a chance to see the room where the james webb telescope was assembled Wasn't there at the time. But you know it was. It was the definitely something really intriguing. To me you know the advancements we've had an how much impact our daily lives you know having pictures from the hubble space telescope in in our understanding of the cosmos in how inspirational that is the young generations. Yeah yeah yeah well. Communications i mean we. We've had those for some time. But in were those are still advancing like starlink right that you on must venture with the international space. We're just becoming more dependent upon satellites. It's amazing how many must be up there at this point. Oh my goodness so a originally. Gps was military only right at than at some point it. They made it available to the commercial public with some sort of an bilton error rate or something built and don't have that right or is that urban myth of civilian versus military bands. Okay so two billion us of gps on one of the contributing factors to how that ended up happening was I believe there's incident in one thousand nine hundred three where the soviet union actually shut down a commercial airliner Drifted kind of out of commercial airspace into russian airspace and basically that that aircraft got shot down and as a result of that around reagan basically announced that ups would be usable to support civilian purposes. And so that was probably a great thing since so so many things rely on jeeploads. Currently that is definitely I mean up fortunate that happened but it was one example of why precision navigation and timing is critical everyday life. Lot of big farms use. Gps to run their tractors. And it's amazing. How much different ways. We've found to to use gps and how dependent on on. Do you know what what portion of satellites currently in orbit are like commercial versus military and also like maybe country of origin and or control who owns the satellites I'm just curious if you know and then also curious if you do know that how of those stats evolved over time Sure so i've got some numbers on that. So currently there's about a roughly over half of the satellite's orbit or a commercial satellites that started off as as a lot of the satellites that were originally launched were either government or military over time. Industry has been kind of kind of figuring out how to leverage space technology to support more things on their own. The cost of launch has gone down significantly. And that's highly relevant. Both commercial and government uses of space space x with some with the way the brain costs down and spawning competition launch has significantly changed the way that we kind of function in space. And that's going to kind of just accelerate over the next ten years into the future as costco's down and on the technology used to build satellites that spawning a whole new generation of satellites. That you know where they used to cost millions or even billions of dollars. Now you have small sets that that that can be relatively cheap and the price to get them in orbit is fairly low now and so You know with small technology kind of rapidly accelerating and with the cost launch going down. I think the the numbers on commercial satellites versus government or military satellites on orbit are gonna. You're gonna see that skew even more in future. yeah yeah carrie. I just brought up a number. That i think was as interesting as carl was talking. The first starling. Satellite launched martin may twenty third two thousand eighteen and two years later. They are the largest satellite operator. In the world spacex his with over fourteen hundred satellites operational satellites much to the chagrin of a lot of earthbound telescopes. But yeah. Yeah wow. That's crazy. The i'll even heard of Member universities and some other programs putting together a nanno sats which sounded like basically a raspberry pies that they put into orbit That let them do cut interesting experiments that thanks to its actually absolutely amazing. How far we've come with with satellite technology. Another question i've got ask is are there. Any international agreements or treaties around the use like accepted uses of satellites or even regarding space warfare. Like some sort of geneva conventions for this. How do we agree on what's allowed or what we can do with With space salad. That's a really good question So so basically. There aren't a whole lot of rules that govern house base gets used. There is one treaty international treaty that they believe that got in the sixties late sixties nineteen sixty seven is started getting ratified basically. It's called the outer space treaty. And so that that treaty is one of the few kind of international treaties that govern some basic rules of the road in space. It doesn't really prohibit a whole lot the kind of one of the key points is it. Basically are all signed promise not to put weapons of mass destruction space. That's that's good. I guess and so other than that though. There's not too many international agreements that really set of rules or standards on on how things function space. And so that's barely concerning. I mean you only have to look at the south china sea where you have centuries of kind of maritime law that that folks are still finding ways to kind of argue about who owns what and so you outer space. I think with the proliferation of the use of space and how lack accessible spaces currently. I think that's going to lead to more conflict in the future. Unfortunately yeah yeah so. We're here to talk about these things that we do depend on a lot of us. Don't realize that how vulnerable they might be and how that plays out of sure a lot of us. Don't really think about it but the before we get into like intentional harm like someone actually tried to do something bad. How vulnerable satellites just generally to kind of regular environmental or other natural harms like than space debris or sunflowers. Or things like that. I can probably veal this one from More of a engineering point of view. Because i'm i'm by no means as satellite expert but i i do know that they do take you know radiation and solar flares and things like that into account in the design of these satellites and and You know that some satellites just go and operative and in some cases unexplained reasons which might be those types of the facts. But i think carl would be able to probably answer a lot more there right. Yeah so traditionally. At least a spacecraft designers have you know have had to worry about threats from the environment and space more than anything and so jason was saying things like solar flares or space weather anomalies or of radiation in general depending on the orbit especially is generally concerning for keeping a satellite live in outer space. It's a fairly hostile environment. There's you know wild temperature swings radiations large concern In fact i i remember seeing a A new aflaid computer that ariel had had developed. and they're really excited about it and You know went when i kind of was new to space. It kind of looked at it and said oh you know what. The clock speed of the processor on that and they said. Oh it's four hundred megahertz. This was about five years ago. And so i was like oh okay. Impressive and You know and really. It has two cores and i was like. Oh yeah that's that's great and you know not having kind of been familiar with with spaces in spacecraft hardware. At the time. I kind of wasn't particularly present but the reality is right that that was a rad hardened flake computer. And so you know you basically have to account for a lot more things when you're putting a computer on orbit than you do when you kind of operated on the ground where have the luxury of the wonderful atmosphere than that. Radiation so yeah. There's a lot of additional variables traits putting some this technology in space. And the other thing i think is overlooked along. These things operate in the fact that we go service them. I'm sure you have to design your spacecraft. The live in a hostile environment for ten fifteen some cases twenty years. There's no satellites that are still in operation. That are twenty five thirty years old. I heard of examples where you know. Batteries were exploding on satellites. You know y- types of situations that you as an engineer now half the design for but you just can't always account for all the possibilities right right right. Yeah that's that's that's a harsh one for environment for sure. Okay so obviously. You guys In your particularly privileged positions probably privy to some information you can't share but we all read sci-fi novels watch movies so this has been talked about certainly bhai speculatively by authors. Whatever so in that hypothetical sense. If i wanted to physically disabled or destroy a satellite like what my most effective options right now. How i go about doing that. And and then there's a follow up. Would these sort of attacks require like the budget and skills of like a nation state or is it actually conceivable for some individual or group to pull something like this off. A number of countries have have demonstrated capabilities to basically 'cause connecticut affects to two things on orbit so the united states russia china india have have you know basically conducted public experiments. Were kind of joe address. Issues with failing satellites where they've actually blown up satellites on orbit and using anti-satellite weapons and so these are publicly Valley kind of go look up the details on some of the stuff. Obviously there's countries have technology to be able to call connecticut effects on satellites. That certainly is a rising threat. That's a pretty big concern. So that's you know what's what's partially driving some of the Effort to see from the government in terms of standing up space force in some of The other efforts around kind. How do we better defend these assets that not only provide military utility but also are critical everyday life like we talked about earlier in the in the podcast. Satellites today are basically computer brains in with with raya capabilities. Which in my mind. Basically being there is not devices in orbit so our satellites more or less susceptible hacking than. Let's say your average home. Wifi router baby monitor an amazon echo. And if so how. How did the nature of their own abilities. Maybe differ from from a standard. It device where used to have around the house. I think one of the things that i saw with Some of the satellites. That i was looking at one. Thinking of really stuck out to me was the age of the components. The age of the software the hardware the ground systems that supported thinks that they used you have to look at the entire life cycle that went into developing these systems. We're talking multimillion dollar efforts that have occurred over multi year and some kinds cases decades of effort so we have no satellite hardware. That's in orbit. That was designed in the nineteen nineties and as a as an attacker the skill sets that the attackers are using technology tools. And things like that ball significantly in the past couple of decades and so these systems work design with these sorts of attacks in mind security posture. That was present today. So i would say to compare them to iot devices yet. Say you could probably compare like some cubesats and things like that small set to that but a lot of these lights were talking running backs workstations and you know three eighty six processors or custom design processors. That are you know we're talking. You know decades old at this time. So it's it's really interesting to think about it from that perspective a lot of security today hinges on the fact that you know the security posture is built on building. Defenses against the new attack method attackers. Using right right right. Yeah yeah and just to echo that so the first experimental. Gps satellites launched in the late seventy s and so this was a system that was designed a long time ago and You know unfortunately cybersecurity wasn't a thing back then and there weren't requirements on how to cyber secure your space system and so some of satellites have been in operation for over twenty years and so You know being able to modify the hardware or or even sometimes. The software's is relatively difficult to address some of these new threats. Yeah on spy novel thing. I you know just occurs to me that an maybe actually did read the somewhere back up again that it wouldn't necessarily be necessary to completely disrupt. Let's say a gps system to just completely wreak havoc. I mean if you just if you just into some errors some alica a lot of these. Things are just based on timing if you could somehow override the signals and provide a slightly different signal. That let's say you know some place coming into a land and you tell it it's actually two hundred feet higher above the surface that really that it really is. That would be horrible. So is that really possible as at just spinal kind of stuff. So that's a good question. So there's a lot of research in this area currently to kind of understand You know what what is pop. The art of the possible in terms of exploiting a gps there are some public examples of of incidents where where ships have kind of You know ended up in the wrong location when their instruments told them they. Were you know one place they. It turned out. There weren't in that place in actuality so. Gps spoofing is a is a thing that is possible. And that's certainly raising a lot of concern And it's also causing a bit of arms race rates so when when you starting to introduce some of these cyber means to Negatively impact of these services that folks have relied on for a long time. There's kind of you know okay. So if this is possible then how do we. How do we address that threat. How do we counter that that capability and so this is one of the drivers for a lot of the work in this area to like more seriously look at the cybersecurity space systems and how they're used and to try to get more folks kind of studying this problem because this is not something that the dod can solve entirely by itself and so bringing in more the security research community through events like sat for example and getting more folks in general to study the problem in kind of explore the problem. That's really one of the reasons why You know the the space force has asked me at least to be on this. Podcast tried away raise awareness for some of this stuff. What about like solid support infrastructure. Because you know we've been talking about the satellites themselves but they they need you know some sort of things to survive in ground stations and even launching systems. What about the. What are the cybersecurity aspects. A those systems how easily they may to attack or to interfere with and these are probably the most familiar for an attacker. Point of view Instead of the satellites themselves because these are network systems a lot of times you know. They're they're networked bullet points across the globe Might have backup. Communication satellite links terrestrial ip networks and so forth so this is probably the aspects that might be the most familiar i think from security researchers perspective that would be most familiar with versus the satellites. And so these are definitely very apt to be attacked if you will right. I'm one you know one aspect of these systems. A lot of them are not connected to the public internet but You know as as spaces general You know become larger and and you know there's even within these private networks that the dod might operator become more interconnected that does raise concern and raise some questions about. How do we had our. We better secure these things that maybe weren't intended to be connected now. We're starting to see some of these systems you know be connected for permission purposes or for You know just just as technology advances in so no. That's that's certainly an area of concern as well. Yeah yeah. I mean now offering. Aws ground station. You can buy your own cloud ground station. So i'm doing something to think about right right. Yeah and that's a that's a good point. So the the dod in general Isn't only worried about the security of their own systems rate so As industry puts more vehicles in space. There's also concerned about how those those satellites could potentially negatively impact something like ups for all so and so there's concern about what if a a bad guy takes control Over commercial satellite. Could that somehow be used to negatively impact the dod mission or or even a other commercial satellites for example. So you know the the dod is also concerned about having commerce space be unfettered and so you know having having just Commercial satellites of interfering with each other is answer. Sure yeah yeah well. Another kind of attack vector that has come to light. Certainly in the general public lately has been Spy checks software supply chain with solar winds thing. You know we're still recovering from that if we may be for years basically the bad guys didn't target the corporations the governments you know that they want to attack directly they targeted software that they knew they all used and kind of trojan Different kind of overload determine cybersecurity but you know kind of got in through the back door by changing software that they knew it'd be imported into that company so how how secure are satellites their support systems from software supply chain and tax and an op. The obvious follow up. Question is what about our supply chain a lot of the chips and things we buy or not source are for military probably but maybe not all source within the us. Yeah i'll talk to the The software side of things. Because that's what. I'm most familiar with. But i think what you're talking about is actually ubiquitous across many industries. Not the spacecraft. Aerospace industry is is comes down to our trust model really Let's take our Lennox for example or any other open source project there's numerous authors that are contributing to this. And you know it's possible that in it's actually was proven. I think by a research group that they might be able to introduce bugs in compromise that particular software that software supply chain and a lot of times. You know what you're getting is an artifact you're getting a binary library in some cases source code. It's incomplete in you're trusting that supplier right and so this is causing. You know those issues that you're seeing now. What i found interesting is just recently actually On may twelfth executive order was passed in that it's including the national institute of technology on proving this but really comes down to creating a trust model away for us to audit the software in a manner that we can trust that software and some of these various technologies have been solved in a very Unfamiliar field probably but crypto currency themselves a addressing the concerns with distributed trust models and blockchain technology and things like that could potentially be applied to securing the software. Supply chains right. Yeah what about hardware. I assume it's been a lot. I'd actually when i was. Let's engineering. deputy. University i was a co op student magnavox and at the time we were doing Dod work we were doing anti antisubmarine warfare. We're doing and i'd remember. The procurement process for parts was crazy. Like all this red tape. That was many many years ago. But i assume it somewhat similar now. I assume that like harbor supply chains. Maybe a little bit easier to monitor for military stuff. I don't know so yeah. To a certain extent yes but but on the other hand knows so so so The us used to make more hardware in the us and so now you know with with modern computers and and you know i mean dell servers are used on space systems for example And so making sure every chip on that server in all the components that you know kind of get assembled maybe in texas by dell Kind of understanding to supply chain of all that hardware is You know that's pretty daunting task. Del certainly contract where it all comes from but not all of it comes from the us ray in so in general like the chip fabs That are producing a lot of the chips that we need for some of this hardware are in other countries and so you know there's a certain there's a there's a very real concern within the dod as well as just within a commercial injuries well on the harbor supply chain for some of the stuff you could look at that the chip shortage that we're having currently that's acting all kinds of stuff like a forward has thousands nichols that are sitting in a parking lot somewhere because they can't get enough chips fruit for even vehicles currently and so you know this is Supply chain in. General is a massive concern. And you know the other thing to mention. Is that some of the concerns that we have with computers. General security of information technology space hardware and software is not You know somehow entirely different right so some folks when they think space think that some kind of alien technology or something spaces generally use similar hardware and software that we use another type systems. I mean the spacecraft themselves certainly had some specialized hardware but they generally follow the same rules as other computers. So you know the kinds of vulnerabilities and threats. We see you know. In general purpose computing. You have similar classes of boehner with space systems as well. Yeah yeah absolutely and you know. There's certainly economies of scale. When you're when you're buying these things to do custom stuff of this like you said there will always be those certain chips the things you need to do in house. But he gave a hell a lot of money if you could just pull something off the shelf at best. Buy me obviously. But you know what i'm saying. You know where we could reuse something got another company has made millions of and done efficiently and cheaply and yeah so but that yeah opens up to all sorts of other problems so back to the the software aspect of this you know when we find bugs in software which we all the time because all software s bugs you know the usual remediation technique for that is fixing them with a software update. Now how feasible is that actually for like satellite in orbit so satellites on orbit Generally you can update the software on them. There are certain things that are difficult to update. But in general you know you can update firmware on satellites or components that satellites that there is such a thing as patching satellite. Well you know. I'll come back to the iot thing and this is something. I applaud the administration for the the recent executive order in some of the focus. They've been putting on on cybersecurity because it really is. I mean it's it's become a a bad problem especially with iot competed everything now but you know coming up with some sort of standard techniques for weekly updating secure fashion software that's in the field is crucial. Absolutely if you can't do that then and which is a lot of the problems we have now. People buy some cheap iot products that they'll never update even if they knew how to do that. They'll they'll never do it. Some of it's impossible to update we've got to as part of just general infrastructure that we need to spend time and money on this. We need to be coming up with standardize recognized. Secure ways of figuring out what's offers out there software bill of materials kind of stuff and then being able to remotely and securely and robustly update that software. Yeah i think this is Something that that executive orders trying to adjust. But it's i call it the concept of software providence. We need to be accountable for every line of code and that it doesn't you know when you when you look at things you get. Where's that source code coming from. Who needed is responsible for it. Wins have been updated when was last patch even just finding out what particular software is present on a system. Right when you know if it's vulnerable or not is a hard problem for. it administrators. Today it takes some time so even end as when they when they come out. You have a period of time. Where they're they're not patched a lot of systems remain on patched and so know the the attacker is always ahead of the game right now. The vendors are always falling behind and that situation definitely needs to change. Yeah of course quote there. Is you know the good guys gotta be right. A hundred percent of the time. The bad guys only have to succeed once. You only have to find one thing that makes it makes it hard. Which is why you have defense. In depth in et cetera et cetera. And again. I know you guys are in positions where you probably can't talk about all these things have there been any publicly documented cases of actual satellite sabotage that we is that a known thing as it happened so there was some testimony before congress. Where a nasa official was basically asked similar questions. He disclosed that. There were a couple incidents that nasa was tracking Involving a satellite called terra lance at seven and basically nasr's kind of still not quite not quite positive what happened but they believe there was an attempt to kind of interfere with the satellite through cyber means and so They they didn't really describe the details of that incident. I'm not familiar with the details either but There is a you know if google lens at seven and nasa. You'd probably find the testimony. Were Talked about that a little bit in front of congress and so so there is concern Obviously you know like we said the satellites use technology that you find in other domains as well and so you know. Some of this technology has similar. Classes of warner believes you see on other types of it systems. And so you know there. Certainly the possibility that there are vulnerabilities in some of these systems. And we have to probably get a little more serious about how we look at how to secure some list of pets because of the criticality of a lot of that actually perfectly brings us into the topic at hand. Which is how we are actually recruiting hackers to help find these bugs so Commenting today is for for a lot of software makers is to recruit hackers to find bugs in his system. They have bug bang programs and recently. Us air force embrace this methodology with fifteen fighter which. I don't know a lot of people are aware of that. there was a the end. Will def con hacker conference. They brought in some of the systems from the f. Fifteen fighter and had the hackers go at it and love to hear from you guys what happened there. But basically was successful enough that the the the the air force decided to come back again and do it with satellites And i think that's where we're gonna be talking about here the most but of course. I've got to ask though at swimming. These systems are probably highly classified. How did how did this ever work. How how was it. Ever the case that these systems were ever brought out into the open and exposed to hackers to try to break basically the. I think there's a lot of You know kind of a different thinking. Currently within the dod in terms of how to address some of these problems so traditionally if vulnerability was found with you know some of these critical systems that that would be highly classified and folks would never want to admit that you know there's vulnerability existed or kind of You know kind of put any kind of light on on the thing. You know some of those details the other way look at it is would you rather find these vulnerabilities before your adversaries do right and so right bringing in more folks to kind of look at some of these problems and identify them ahead of time before the bad guys do basically that seems to be the kind of approach that you know. Some folks are taking in terms of how to address some of these cyber concerns with with systems that are critical national security importance. And so. that's why. I think you're starting to see more things. Like half the pentagon for example that digital services are holds so the part of Space support Center there are discussions about potentially doing something similar with with Some of the systems that they build and so nothing's kind of finalized yet but that is You know that that is sort of You know we're starting to see more folks kind of take that approach versus you know. Only having you know the limited resources we have available with appropriate clearances kind of studying things in a lab and getting more light. Shed on this stuff Hopefully will help us find the problems before they you know are used against us basically right. Well it's it's really fascinating. Let's let's talk a little bit. More of your team is about to host. What's called a capture the flag Hacking term it as part of the qualifications for some of the stuff doing defcon. Which is another kind of a different approach for recruiting hackers to find bugs for my audits. Could you explain what is a capture. The fight with a c. T. f. and how's it work. And then we relate that to your cassatt journey atra flag is. It's a information security competition that challenges the competitors or teams to solve a variety of tasks to essentially capture the flag and score with that. Some of these ranged from from scavenger hunts to Cryptography challenges to basic programming exercises. All the way up to discovering zero days and synthetic challenges or even to stuttering zero days And real systems in exploiting those no. It's kind of a very overloaded time there but it really encompasses a lot of different types of competitions have online events that occur You have in person. Events that may occur correct various conferences. And i would say you probably have one if you go on the cf time dot. Org probably have one that it's almost every weekend at this point in time And it's really something that i've been involved in for a long time. It's a great educational experience debate learning experience sprayed opportunity for people who are passionate about this this industry to go out there and challenged itself Let's dig a little bit more so it wouldn't capture the flag classic game that you played as a kid. Maybe as you know you've got to posing teams. Each one with a red flag. Went one with a red flag where the blue flag or whatever and your your goal was to capture the other person's flag bring back to your base and do that i at we're talking about computers here so this is this all in the virtual realm so like what does it look how you what does it look like to quote unquote capture a flag on a computer. Like how does that actually play out. Give me an example. Yeah so a lot of times. You have different types of competitions but what kind of a jeopardy style seat breath which is where have everybody's familiar with the the the game jeopardy and you have a board that you unlock a challenging. You're presented with some you know challenge details and that challenge might be you have some web service connect to it and and steel authentication token from that. In that case that privileged authentication token could be the flack Right so if i am able to successfully exploit that web service and get that authentication token i can present it. Back to the organizers of the through some web portal or something like that where i would then be able to present to them and show them. I've successfully captured that black. You have other types of games which are a tax defense style not apps where you might have web services or you might have a vulnerable services on a network device that each team is able to access and you're you're tasked with defending those services and likewise attacking them if you're able to exploit that service finding a bone code path or command action or something like that you can capture some information off that system and that's the in that essence and then present that back to the organizers in they'll score you for that broke really if you can also successfully defend that service and prevent it from being attacked. You might also be able to get points for that. That's that's really cool. So i guess this is to if i read it correctly so this i guess there was a sat one. Walk me through the history like what was the first half cassatt one. What happened there in its successful enough. You need one more time accent. One was held last year. And as as i think many people remember last year was a pretty interesting year for for for everybody but the event started with a qualification round which was an online competition in the spring of two thousand twenty and over six thousand competitors took part and into two thousand two hundred thirteen teams in and out of those Twenty two hundred teams. That competed eight of those teams. The top eight teams were selected to go on the final event. Originally we envisioned this final event occurring in person at death on after flag But as everybody knows The global pandemic set in and we had to change their plans and so we did a virtual event instead so. He was a defcon Twenty-eight safe mode which was all virtual event and the teams connected in through vpn and they connected to our network and we had a series of competition challenges that they had to work through and it was a scenario based seat yet and the story behind this particular competition was. Is that an adversary or or somebody had taken control of the satellite and they were going to hack their way. Back into the satellite to recover the satellite In which they had to do by. I hacking the ground station component. That we created and then connecting to the satellite over in our f- link and then slowly getting control of each of the satellite systems The six challenges total and It was a blistering event. Happened over two days and the teams worked. I imagine nonstop without any really any sleep very little sleep if they were and one team was actually successful in finishing all the challenges and then at the end the last challenge they had to take a picture of a moon which we had in the room so there was a a a moon that we had put on the wall. And these flats. That's themselves were inside a carousel. That was rotating about one rotation every fifteen minutes to simulate an orbit and they had to rotate their satellite commanded after they have successfully worked through all the challenges in in got control of it. And take a picture of the hub was also another event that occurred as well where they had to command an actual real satellite And and and command profound and take a real pitcher balloon so this is really an interesting and challenging competition and i am trying to remember the exact name of the team as it escapes me at the moment in time but one team was successful and able to get through all of the Virtual challenges and i think a couple of teams were successful in doing the moonshot pitcher as well. So how does that inform. What's going to happen this year. That accent too so basically the desires tried to raise the bar on these events and so last year was kind of wardha jeopardy styles. See t.f. where there were kind of predefined challenges in the teams would kind of unlock challenges as as they complete challenge that would get the next and they kind of worked kind of in their own environment this year as was mentioned earlier there. There are different types of cdf's so This year for hackers to it's going to be more of the tax defense style. Etf but the goal is to sort of make these events more interesting kind of build the realism and complexity of the events over time and so going forward future versions of cassatt are being discussed. And so there are plans to kind of you know. Increase the fidelity of the events and make them more interesting. And so. Keep an eye out on future versions. Pack set. 'cause there's some pretty cool stuff being planned. What about bug bounty programs. I think you mentioned the pentagon had one For which. I wasn't aware of a for the audience's sake. If they don't know bug binding programs are often run through consolidators hacker one or whatever where these corporations big apple google facebook and others come in and say all right under limited circumstances. We're going to have. We're going to provide Services that we want the hackers to attack and see what they can if they can find bugs and then hacker one can organize organizes that and pays out bounties. You know for certain levels of things too hard to find with a company's willing to pay and yada yada yada does the government sponsor public bugs bunny programs Yeah so so. In the case of hacked pentagon so us digital service services basically held that event. I believe they did. Contract with hacker one to actually run that and so so basically that was in essence what you described as what they did. Basically there were Pentagon sort of websites basically that were kind of the focus of the bug bounty and so basically anyone was able to kind of participate. I believe and sometimes when the government runs these sometimes there is a vetting process to make sure you know folks have us citizens or sometimes they are open the actual bad guys that might be going after these services aren't necessarily the us citizens in bed by by the folks that are planning things so I think it can vary based on. How how these are constructed but the dod is starting to kind of run these types of events as well as as a similar waste how industry runs at the one. That came to mind for me. Most recently was dark. Actually did a bug bounty for the first time fed bug finding exploits. The were tampering. Miss was actually stemmed from a darpa project to build a secure processor. So it was. It was called v Where there were Passed with creating a secure risk. Be five processor so this was at the hardware level defending against the tax and so they they created this program and industry responded in bell technologies to do this and they wanted to test the technology efficacy of that technology and so they did this through the darpa valley program to allow researchers to come in and test their skills and their attack tool set against this processor that they had balanced and that sounds a little bit. I think i read about the morpheus project which is a really interesting new. Cpu design and actually gonna be interviewing one of the guys that worked on that project from the university of michigan. So yeah kinda similar thing as we wrap up here look. Let's talk a little bit about your particular hackers program and you know if anybody in my audience is intrigued. You know about hacking might want to try their hand at earning bug. Bounties are entering your hackers contest. What advice would you give them on how to get started. I guess it's specifically about your. How if people want to look into that. And then generally if we've got some aspiring hackers in the audience. What do you have to be engineered for example. That'd be a software engineer or some sort of computer whiz to do this stuff. How would you recommend somebody get started. And if they want yours a particular what do they do to get into akerson. Yeah so to be to be frank. I think it's for me. It's being passionate about technology and being passionate about entering the field. Because there's there's a lot of great resources out there you can just look online. There's a red sub reddit security staff on that second so forth that you can use their seat yet. One one dot org cps time at the college level there's security clubs and so forth. It's just getting that roope together or becoming a part of a group and reaching out and being involved. I've found that. I've met some great hackers that didn't have college degrees that went into the field right out of high school and they just found that they were fascinated by the technology they fascinated by how systems operated in. They wanted to learn more at they were. I would say this curiosity that was about them. They were always looking for. Yeah well you know a lot of times when the systems designed designs a certain way but they don't realize that there's there's repercussions because of those design criteria that they've made it so they really want to understand how these systems operate. We're talking about really complex systems here that nobody really understands all the details up so right. Yeah you know. What i found is just having that desire that passion and then finding the resources going out there on the internet local security clubs Even starting one at one doesn't exist and is is the best way a lot of those. Etf competitions i've seen are your organization's unit corporate level corporate sponsorship but then universities highschool clubs. Things like that. And what about your hat contact Contest a particular. Let's see it's coming up soon. Defines coming up and you've got some qualifications coming up kind of walk me through some of the deadlines and how that works and somebody would jump in. What would they would do Shirts basically the registration windows open for qualifiers. That closes on june twenty-seventh and so The qualification round the top ten teams went ten thousand dollar prize and then the finals are going to be held on september seventeenth and the first three places also can win prize money. Sit there shifty thousand dollars for first place. Thirty thousand for in twenty twenty thousand third and so You know there's actually some some decent prize money that to winning these things. You have very cool. I think last year the winning teams also got the take home a custom flats at that we made as well and what. What's a flat sat in this case. The term is often used for a kind of a benchtop prototype satellite. So it's it's not an it's fully configured form it's not in. Its final form factor. It might have prototype components in it being like that in the case of last year it was a i would say about a forty centimeter cube. That had on board with flight computer which was pulled the command and data handling board hadn't onboard com board which we had an f- linked ford had a abc 's attitude determination control system which had a reaction wheels has seen blacks degree of freedom. we came with the air. Burien as well. So you have basically rotate really on a friction lists environment there And so they were given this Pelican case and everything was actually when they were using that in the final event and so they got to keep their their we call them trophy flat sets at the end of the competition. Very cool club teams really liked it so let me wrap up the this question. What's the future of cybersecurity. Look look look like for. The satellite industry can we. Can we really hope to secure these devices against a determined hacker like particularly like maybe a nation state hacker. It just seems really difficult to do. And then you know how to programs accent figure into our efforts to protect these assets and everything that depends on the yes. That's that's an interesting question i regret. I spent the the whole podcast about that. But i would say that the the way we we are looking at the problem might be a little bit off in general. So you know you. Don't look at a bank and say you know. How do we eliminate the possibility of bank could be route rain in. You're never going to reduce the risk of a bank robbery. Two zero you know and still have a functional bank that bright you know have customers come in and kind of bring money in and take money out right so i think you know with cyber security in general not just in space domain but we have we we kind of have to look at it in a similar fashion. Like how do we reduce the risk to an acceptable level. And how do we address. The threats You know in cyber a little bit harder. Because i think we understand the threat of bank robbery rate. We understand. You know generally how people rob banks and kind of what tools tactics and procedures. They they use when they rob a bank with computers. It's a lot harder. Because the technology is constantly evolving. Sort of the playing field keeps changing rate as quick as we could come up with ways to kind of address. Some of the threats. You know we have new threats to worry about. And so. I think it's unfortunately it's going to be you know kind of continual game of cat-and-mouse where as you know we cope with new technology. They're going to be new vulnerabilities in that technology. The fact that we're on this podcast the fact that the dod is basically looking at this problem a little more seriously and trying to bring in more folks kind of study. It i think is a good sign because you know with more attention on the problem. I think we'll do a better job at identifying the threats and addressing them and so i think that's the kind of the positive side while i don't think you'll ever get the the the state where there are vulnerability computers or space systems. I think that you know focusing on this problem more. Putting more research into the area and kind of just maturing the state of the art will help us address the threats to manage them and bring bring the risk down to accept level. Yeah just what's your take. I think what karl said. is on point with regards to we'll never get to provable. Secure systems I spent a lot of time looking at methods which is one method that they use to try to go that route and the fact that matter is formal methods has some model that they have to attest in that model always has it doesn't model the real systems right. there's there's fidelity errors there. But what i do see that is unfolding. Now is a future where we're talking about. more satellites. Talking about spark based craft were more processing more opponents decision making capabilities being pushed to the satellites themselves. sat inter satellite links. We have satellite communication. It we're seeing a lower barrier of entry us with costs dropping significantly for launch costs. So you know it's opening up a larger plainfield and so we need to take this cybersecurity itself for the aerospace industry in particular. I think needs to catch up a little bit. We've seen cyber-security security focus strongly. You know kind of our terrestrial networks and and incorporate networks and environments like that but these systems are kind of lagging behind Especially as more and more people are being now not. It isn't just nation states government agencies and large corporations that are putting satellites in orbit now We have universities and small groups of people now because of the cost of entry that are able to launch their own small set their own cubesats and things like that the platforms and technology are volving very rapidly. And it's very fragmented when you kind of look out there at it which is kind of how iot was for awhile. Right delays right and we've seen the security behind that so there needs to be some greater focus on this from an engineering perspective and maybe even from maybe some some some laws or some compliance. That's required here to kind of address. These concerns and and i do think you know hack sat as a competition is is really about raising this awareness. Kind of raising the flag lifting the veil if you will right on on these spacecraft and how they work Some of the technology from the challenges and bringing attention to cybersecurity researchers an aerospace engineers and so forth About some of these difficulties in getting them to unite and think about it together and maybe we can start identify. These challenges solve the current challenges in and look ahead to that. And stay kind of the head of that cat-and-mouse game where we don't end up in a situation. Where we're we're looking back. And we've got all these systems in existence fragmented ecosystem there is no coordinated defense strategy. There are technology strategy. And now we're trying to fix it after the back right right and i think It's tempting especially able to people that aren't familiar with Security just in general is security by obscurity where you know we just keep it hidden and if nobody can find it they can't figure out hack that's that is totally not the way to go. I mean the way you know the way things got to where they are today is that we've made these things available for for experts to vat into look at it to poke and prod it and and find the bugs and work work out the kinks and things get better over time because we do things like that. And that's where that's why it's so cool. I think that the that the government is getting out there and and exposing all these things to the general public and said hey help us find bugs. This know before someone else dies. And that's what they're doing it's all about. that's wonderful. Well jason carl thank you so much for coming on the show. It's been really really informative. Had a great time talking about it. Appreciate you adding assam. Glad we could talk about this and Checkout dot com for more details of anybody listings interested in you know. Hopefully we'll see you in vegas a defcon. Yeah to jason final words. Thank you carry and said you have already check out the calm. And i'd like to thank the air force and in the space force putting this on and making this all possible. What a great interview. What a really cool concept. What a fun topic. And thanks for listening to. That was a lot of fun things to bring up. In retrospect now that we've had the interview. Both jason and carl mentioned the digital service. And that's the thing that's a. There's a group called the united states digital service or yes And i just want to really quick read the mission from their website. The us ds dot gov and they say you. Sds is a group of technologists from diverse backgrounds working across the federal government to transform critical services for the people these specialists joined for tours of civic service to create a steady influx of fresh perspectives. Our mission is to do the greatest good for the greatest number of people in the greatest need. That's a really cool credo and basically it's kind of like a tour of duty you sign up and volunteer you get paid actually get paid quite well To work for one four years in this program to help make things better actually considering this myself They're based in washington dc. So i guess they prefer to work locally so that would kind of limit things right now. During the pandemic people are working remotely though and you might be able to swing that deal but i believe it was created in two thousand fourteen by the obama administration and i think it was actually done in response to the rather bungled rollout of healthcare dot gov website and they recruited people out in the world to come work for them for a short time to make stuff better so anyway if that appeals to you might wanna check out. Usps dot gov and if the hacking of satellites is something you would like to get into and and you do not have to be a computer scientist or computer engineer Or even a super computer nerd to get into hacking I'm doing it now actually. I'm doing taking some classes many of which are free online. And all you really need is passion just like i forget karl or jason. Who said that. But you really just need a passion for this stuff and if you're interested at all there's tons and tons of resources for this online and there's a lot of free capture the flag tournaments where you can kind of test your skills and hone your skills and in particular if you're interested in tack You need to get on the ball. And it's one reason i bumped this interview up in time to get out right. Away is because their registration. Qualification ends on june twenty-seventh at four pm eastern daylight time and actually the thirty hour virtual qualifications start prior to that They start on june twenty sixth at ten a. m. eastern so. I guess technically you could register after. They've already started. But you might want that whole time so if you're interested at all checkout cassatt dot com h. a. c. k. sat dot com. There are some really killer prizes. But there's no cost to just try so check it out. see what it's about. I think they're going to select in this qualification round. Select the top ten people. Those top ten people will win ten thousand dollars. Each i believe. And then the final round would be in mid september. I'm guessing for those top ten people to qualify and the prices. They are another one hundred thousand dollars. Total fifty thousand. I thirty thousand per second and twenty thousand for third place so good money there. I'm really hoping i can see Jason and or carla defcon. Very psyched about going to defcon this year. And the next week. As i said we'll have another interview. We'll be talking to josh jackson from six cut about the general state of cyprus security and hacking today and we'll we'll talk about solar winds colonial pipeline and is perspective on some of the recent pushes by the us government to raise our cybersecurity standards. So that'll do it for this week again. Grab a copy of the book if you ever thought about getting it. Now's the time if you have a book. Please leave a great review on amazon for it. That would be much appreciated. I will read them here on the air. If you're loving the podcast. I would love to get a great review on itunes for that and if you that challenge going sign up as a patron before the end of the month go to patriot dot com or look for the lincoln shouts. Time is running out all right. Everybody take care. For those of you in the western. You try to stay cool. I know it's crazy hot out there. Get yourself vaccinated. Get your friends and family vaccinated. Stay safe out there. And there's always until next week don't get caught with your drawbridge down.

federal government jason williams carl jason hackensack crowley jason crumlin llc legitimate business syndicate department of treasury Us meyer corporation wallops island defcon rdc carlin james webb darpa
Making A Better Internet

Techdirt

1:22:27 hr | 10 months ago

Making A Better Internet

"Hello and welcome to the PODCAST. I'm Mike Mass Nick for today's podcast we have yet another panel discussion that I was part of that. We are now turning into a podcast This one was a discussion held just last week by the Internet archive for their D. Web, meet up web standing for distributed web or decentralized web depending on who you talk to. Often those two are used interchangeably It's just. Whichever makes the most sense for you The conversation was moderated by Sutton and the panelists were mundine leap corey doctor who was just on our own podcast recently Jay Graber and myself all four of which are very Well I shouldn't say that about myself but the three very interesting folks with different perspectives. Regarding, the distributed decentralized web and I will note that this podcast will be bit long as it was an hour long discussion held over zoom and then another half an hour of audience questions and we didn't really WANNA split up. So I, think it makes sense to do the whole thing in one batch though obviously you can listen to it however, you would like I think the overall discussion is was really interesting looking at how do we build a better internet that doesn't have as much power concentrated in the hands of just a few giant Internet companies. and. With that I will turn it over to the actual podcast. Technological. We have to. Participate critical digital journalism. Up. The coffee? Pulling the. Tight Tight. Control. To prep for simple to think. Of the. attack. And welcome to everybody. This is the one meet up and I am very pleased to introduce you to today's moderator. My Ishikawa Sutton I met my at the twenty sixteen do web summit because we did a special session at the end about how to make this community more diverse inclusive, and that's where I met my. She has been doing that work ever since she was the global policy analyst for eff studying copy right and most of you know her as the associate producer of de Webcam it's my pleasure to trade this over to our moderator today my Ishikawa Sutton. Thank you so much Wendy. So why are we here today? Today, because a lot of us know that the Internet is broken and this movie the social dilemma just. painted. This picture for maybe five million viewers who may just be waking up to some of these problems these problems of how these big platforms are, what it is, what the Internet they know and. The Internet that they know and These issues, the manipulation of data harvesting of selling data to advertisers for us to become the product that they're selling. That is an issue that a lot of people still don't know about, but we're the web community. And we're builders were activists were designers and we've been paying attention to all the ways that it's broken for a long time but we focus on the solutions and we nerd out about the technological systems, the organizational systems that could make an Internet that actually participatory, resilient and decentralized. So I'm really thrilled to introduce the stellar set of Hannele today. So first off, we have cory. Cory I knew actually I not as the best selling. Sci. Fi author. But as my predecessor on at the WHO also focused on international copyright issues. In addition to being a prolific writer, he's been back with the F. as a special advisor, and lately he's been focused on issues, of Internet interoperability competition and making the Internet more and innovative again. Next we have Jay Graber. Jay I. I met about six years ago as an organizer who is fighting for net neutrality, and since then she's become formidable developer, she was one of the core team members that launched Z. Cash. She loves the cash to found her own company, a social media event platform called happening. And more recently, she's been doing a lot more research about the centralized web protocols everything from the Federated System too pure pure systems to blockchain systems and the ways in which they have strengths, weaknesses, and what they need to do to actually scale up. Next up we have almodena pipe. Iodine is the CO founder of the Matrix. Foundation and of element formerly known as riot and she has been part of the team that has been developing open decentralized, real time communication standard out in the open alongside thousands of open source developers, and it's a fascinating story of how they're combining social innovation in organizational innovation with technology and the ways in which they're fostering a large community of open source developers. Next up and not not least. We have journalist Mike MAZANEC who is also the founder of Tucker. He's been following the tech debates for about two decades and last year he threw down the gauntlet with this piece protocols not platforms in which he made the case for why we need to return to the early principles of the Internet of having more interoperability and open protocols and the piece was so influential that. The twitter blue sky project in which twitter CEO Jack Dorsey is launching into a project to look into how the platform can develop or adopt a decentralized social media protocol. So with that Mike Welcome all the panelists I want to take the first question to Mike. So, can you paint us a picture of how we strayed away from that open innovative interoperable Internet of you know twenty thirty years ago to today where we're stuck with these gated walled garden. How much time do we have? It's it's a long and some what depressing story I guess you know I think I. Honestly, there are a bunch of different things and a bunch of different factors and we can't go through them all but more or less. What happened was the early web showed a lot of promise we had sort of the dot com bubble where all sorts of interesting new projects came about. But what people quickly discovered was that it was pretty difficult to build such things sustainably and then along came a few very successful companies that did out how to build a sustainable web properties and it was often effectively by putting up barriers in creating silos that that. Not only collected a whole bunch of data but kept that data in and kept only for themselves, and still you had sort of the rise of these big data silos of. And facebook and and whatnot, and they showed how you could effectively recreate some of the promise of the early Web. But rather than doing it with open protocols where anyone can build off of it, you know they were the controller and they were able to therefore collect monopoly rents or extract excess profits from it, and that sort of paved a path for for a few other companies to come in and a bunch of other companies to effectively try and do the same and that just became the focus and the idea of. Thinking about the Internet as a shared tool for everybody to build on and and to work together that sort of went by the wayside. Thanks Mike, and so the next question is to corey how because of the sort of profit motivated business model the Internet how does that translate into regulations that made it that much harder to compete with them? Am I on muted now. Yes. Great. So yeah. I. Don't think that the problem is prophets or or even advertising per se i. think that you know the people who started the web and the people who came later not was a group of noble minded people in the other group were were a bunch of monopolised. The people funded them the people who gave them the money and both cases were interested in absolutely nothing but profit, right? That's why that's why those bankers and insurance companies and pension funds gave the money to build things I think the difference is what we let them get away with that over forty years and particularly accelerating over the last decade or two we have allowed firms to become much more concentrated through tactics that were historically forbidden. It's easy to forget that there was a time in living memory prior to Ronald Reagan, which is to say prior to. The launch, the apple two, plus there they had the same launch ear that went on the campaign trail. The same time there was a time when companies weren't allowed to grow by buying their competitors or buying up smaller companies that might grow to be competitors or by creating vertical monopolies where you know you run the APP. Store and you sell APPs in the APP store in the same way that you couldn't run a rail company and also carry. Freight on your own rails to be one of the other and that we even had an FTC at one point where any industry where the same company was the lead company for like more than five or six years. The FTC would presumptively often open an investigation into them for Anti Competitive Conduct on the grounds that any company that managed to dominate its industry for more than a couple of years at a time was probably up to no good. And when industries become really concentrated in really hard to write laws that restrict what they do I mean it is like unbelievably obvious that we need a federal privacy law with private right of action and yet anyone you talk to on the hill will tell you that as a political impossibility because of the giant quantities of money spent in concert by the very small number of big tech companies that all agree on what their priorities should be because they're such a small number that they have the same priorities. Because they've converged on approximately the same business model which has nothing to do with whether or not you're the product, right? If pain for something didn't make you the product than John Deere farmers would be the world's most autonomous individuals because they buy their tractor for half a million dollars and they still get roped into using John Deere's expensive service companies do what they can get away with. They can get away with more when they're concentrated. We started letting them concentrate forty years ago, and that's how we got here. Thanks great and so this is J.. J. As founder of happening, you came across some of the issues of becoming a startup right in the midst of these big platforms and you had to deal with facebook's API, can you talk a little bit about how you just had such a headache dealing with with FACEBOOK'S API? Myself here shirt. Yeah. So I started happening because I thought. You I really wanted alternative to facebook and I thought facebook could be unbundled such large service. There's so many things will up within it and many people I talked to said Oh. Yeah I don't like using facebook anymore I just use it for messaging and events that was like mainly the main use case among at least people my age and so I started building something prevents because I thought that's something that you can target. There's not a lot of other messing that there and I went ahead and just built centralized apparatus trying to do something more decentralized because I think at this level you really iterating on user features and User, experiences in the question is how do you get people use it and oftentimes like the decentralisation features are more at the database level essentially for users so ended up focusing on this APP, happening and what happened is I realize it's really hard to get access to facebook users, friend list to just invite their friends to an event. Even if they authorize my application to do it through the API, because the way it's set up is basically If I want invite my friends only my other friends who authorized the same application will be able to show up in the APP, and so I kind of understand why facebook does this mean. On their end it's reducing their liability for third party APPS, possibly spamming user friendless and. But it also makes it easier for them to kind of restrict a third party access to their social graph, making it harder for possible competitors to bootstrap off their existing social network, and so the result of this was for whatever reason they did it. It made it really difficult for me to give users the same kind of experience they were used to having on facebook because as new site I just didn't have those network effects I could pull the email I could pull their phone numbers but I couldn't. pull their facebook friends and therefore I couldn't you know just let you invite your whole facebook friend list. So going back to decentralisation I went back into doing more research particular after the twitter who sky announcement because I thought. You know what? Like this is one thing we really need because I really wish social networks user social graphs could just be decentralized controlled by the user because why doesn't work that way like when I make a connection with my friend on facebook on whatever platform I don't. Intend to be having this relationship needed forever by facebook trying to connect to my friend and I would like to be able to do that ideally across multiple applications, multiple platforms, and have the terms of that connection just being determined determined by two of us because it's really between the two of us, right. But this would require is they really more robust and widely adopted centralized law of identity and social relationships and I think there are some promising steps towards that right now but we just don't have it. So I'm a dean, you started building Matrix six years ago and you started building. Matrix to address some of these problems of these big platforms in this capture over social networks as Jay described. Can you talk about what those initial problems were and maybe how they have evolved over time to now? Yes they the idea matrix was very much break fighters eventually provide the communication layer to the web. Why do we have this open web on top of which anyone counts a money that anyone can use that? We don't have that communication? Why are we forced style? The at other people want us to use. And so. After having trying to build a messaging and voice solutions for ten years, using either existing open protocols or building our own proprietary protocols. With that, we have learned enough to actually try be impossible missed thing that everyone was dreaming to be to to build, and that's when we actually started matrix. The idea is very much to provide very simple API so that you don't have to be unexpired. Blueberry messaging. To actually build an APP on top of it. Because that's one of the Promos we've seen everyone think religion it easy but it's not just send a message. If you want actual bigger features group chat history encryption than stops to be quite Harry. So very simple API completed open so that anyone can actually host it, and then maybe we can get to a world where as a user I can choose the. US. I choose the provider I trust with my data on everything is an to an encrypted. So that's what we try to address a on quite far along this way as you said, a the beginning. Twenty million users on. Matrix. And thousands of open source developers different up spilling on top of it, it's being used by. Governments across the world. But. We haven't hit yet the mass market and people who we hope will. Be a bit awaken by watching things like the social neatly Social Media Anna spend that maybe we should try something else. In terms of how things have changed since. On one hundred fake, not much of the other actually the awareness of these needs for openness this needs for control. This needs for data travesty has been a growing. A Lot. The main thing you can see is like, Hey, you're starting to get lows setup to actually protect the users. That's can you when we started six years ago people were looking looking at us saying, hey, you're crazy. Now their regulation starting to come up on people are actually. Being aware of this need. Of An open are basically for communication. Yeah and so. To, shift towards from these these problems that we're describing to maybe some of these solutions. I just said people are becoming a lot more aware of the things that we need both technologically and regulatory. To a breakdown, somebody silos in these and lower the barrier. So. In the US. The Justice Department is seeking an antitrust action towards Google. For instance, a few years ago. European regulators levied a five billion dollar fine to Google. Do those sorts of you know regulations as the sort of penalties on these bay platforms actually solve the problem I want to let anyone jump in here. So. I'll jumping in I think a fine as a price firms whose conduct is enabled by. Their scale which makes them too big to to actually tame or consider getting rid of are happy to pay fines provided that those fines are are less than the cost of doing business, right the the songs there's there's access capital leftover at the end and so when we start from the presumption that it's That you know Google company that only ever made like between one and a half and two and a half products anyone ever liked right? They made a search engine, a hotmail clone and depending on who you ask the stuff that they bought when they bought android wasn't any good and they built android from the ground up and then everything else they've done they bought from someone else. If if they're allowed to go on engaging in anticompetitive. The fact that they paid a fine for doing, it won't curb it and the more fines we assassin than the longer they get a to go along with it. The more power they will amass and the harder it will be to imagine doing anything about it. If we need evidence that that's how firms operate the Fincen leaks that came out last week, two, trillion dollars, worth of suspicious activity reports that the largest banks in America. Filed with the US Department of Treasury detailing how they laundered money for the world's worst criminals. Treasury had find them repeatedly for doing this. They got fined billions they launder trillions, they kept hundreds of billions. Why would you ever change your conduct in the face of fines you know asking asking large firms to not behave like large firms to not be monopolists or even keep track of what all the people in a that. So big that you can't no. No one who works there can know what everyone is doing i. think is a fool's errand. Right, and so instead of maybe just punishing them with these fines which you call just prices of for the price of doing, business. More action about talking about regulation that will create actual interoperability right in the US there's this access act in the EU closed open comment period for the digital services to modernize their ECOMMERCE rules. Mike, can you talk a little bit about you know what would it look like to create regulations that build interoperability back into the Internet? Yeah I think I mean there are a lot of. There I think unfortunately I'm not. Particularly happy about any of the purchase that people are taking because I, think the which is a little bit backward tried I think the focus right now is how do we? The good thing is that people recognize that some level of interoperability is important and some some level of being able to get your data or control data is important, which I think is a huge deal but I think the regulatory responses, how do we sort of force companies to do that rather than how do we? How do we recognize how we got to this position in the first place? And so I don't think that that the approach is that people are talking about right now are going to be particularly effective I. think that you know getting rid of certain things that have gotten in the way in the past would be a much more effective tool for that. So you know things like the CFO. Which you know there's there's a lot of history here but the cf a it was. Officially sort of anti hacking tool from the US government that was passed in the eighties. Partly in response to the movie wargames. It's that's been stretched an abused in in really dangerous ways I think prevent this in the most obvious example of that is the power case where power was this company that was trying to build sort of a universal dashboard for all your different social media. Properties and one of the things that they did was if you had if you want to use power and you wanted to look at, you know your facebook account along with all these other accounts power asked you to give give them your facebook credentials and this was your your permission just to extract your data from facebook and bring it into power and facebook sued. Power and said that it was a cfo a violation and they won the case went on for a very long time and effectively destroyed power in the process You know if we'd had a different ruling in that case and it allowed companies at the the users own request to go in and and pull out your data and use it in a different way and create. That way I think that is a much more important deal than trying to sort of layer on another thing that says, okay we're going to add new regulation. We're going to ignore all the regulations that already exists we're GONNA have this new regulation that says you have to be interoperable and I, think on top of that the way it's being done is often ways that will Effectively lock in it, it's creating a new sort of regulatory burden that the big companies have compliant staffs and lawyers, and they can all deal with it and smaller companies will find it more and more difficult, and so we again sort of lock ourselves in to these big companies and assume that that that's the way things are done and as long as we regulate those companies. Everything's okay. But but what that does is locks out competition and locks out other approaches. I want to jump in here and just saying I agree, with Mike, on this and having tried to single handedly build and run a little social media start. If I can definitely see how difficult it would be say comply with certain requirements I would have to have round. API's like having built an API for happening and it just because I'm the only person doing all of it and I think a lot of these projects are in a similar place where there's like one or two people doing all the work to try to establish a foothold like a small competitor not have new regulation that. Might introduce lots of regulations that would be good for larger companies comply with privacy interoperability it becomes very hard for startups and. Thinking that maybe in some ways like the kind of onerous regulation would be something facebook even welcome as a new cost of doing business because it kind of prices their competitors out of the market and it's something they can totally afford and it's really better for them because it just entrenches their move even more. In fact, they've said, they've said more or less that they welcome this this kind of regulation because they know that you know and to some extent to go back a little bit to what Corey said at the beginning I know we were encouraged before this panel to disagree with the show I'm gonNA disagree with Cory. I always appreciate karis thoughts and learn so much from Korean Corey knows this very well. He started out by saying that you know we we need this privacy law with private right of action. A private right of action scares me to death frankly You know I understand the thinking behind it I understand why you want it but I also see how Setting that up could lead to a ton of abusive litigation that completely berries smaller companies and completely makes it impossible and and you know I don't know if there is a solution in there where you can limit it to certain types of companies but I worry about things where you know we we burden the smaller competitors with you know with with regulations or litigation that that basically snows them under whereas the big companies can just chalk it up as an expense. Omitting could you timing here because Europe takes a different approach to the US right in the US we already have a draft law, this access act, and we just have this open comment periods of there's still a lot of flexibility right around what the Digital Services Act might look like. Could maybe give us maybe a hopeful picture like what in what ways could this regulation be positive to help you know something like Matrix. So I'm not sure I'm going to be able to papa mixer because share the worries that Mike mentioned here. But I like to share more details that were. Having on this, which leads by building an open standard, which is managed by a nonprofit foundation, which is going to be the one responsible to actually make sure that the starred is relying with various regulations if they come up then as small startups have truly wanted to build on. Then it's easy to provide an easy tool for people to build it and on a when we started matrix, one of the idea was to reproduce the motel we had with mate. Initially. Were very disparate. They ended up with SMTP and just Microsoft being on the side and refusing to actually use some teepee until the day where the users actually voted with their feet the hey guys I want to send Niimi outside my company how how do I do if you're not using your some TV under were forced to actually get there and that's very much of course we're doing say rebuilding Matrix. It's we have On top of it, where encouraging as many people are supposed people to build on top of Matrix and we're basically. Grow a the level of the ocean so that at some point, the big islands of the WHATSAPP et Cetera, we like diners because everyone would be like, Hey, guys how come when I use what's up I cannot communicate with all my friends which on the other side. So that's veterinary the approach taking because I agree with. Regulations on. Finds Etcetera is quite complicated to set up It's not a black or white with lobbying as well in there. So they main the main way will solve. This I believe is if the users actually realize what's happening if as technologists, we actually build solutions which are built on top of an open star. And then then we can't move the world forward. Sarah SORTA building Matrix that interoperability is the main feature. Yes the. Interoperability decentralisation is the main feature of Matrix so that you can really choose who you trust with your data basically as a user and anyone can be locked up of an anyone. Oh, this ops took from between one another. Can I? Chime in with maybe a middle ground between Interoperability and and and mandatory interoperability, which is the competitive compatibility right the idea that if you look at the history of technology all of the allegedly like a non overturn -able network effects that are supposed to entrench permanent advantage have often been turned on their heads by new market entrance that made compatible products, interoperable products so whether that was apple reverse engineering. Office formats and making I work. So that rather than the fact that there's this giant Microsoft installed base being a network effect that apple has to overcome they all become people whom apple customers can share documents with seamlessly or whether it's Microsoft itself you know taking advantage of the fact that IBM was under a consent decree didn't The operating system for PC's and therefore having all of this diversity of hardware vendors that it could sell operating systems to. You know the network affects are often two edged swords where rather than having a walled garden the incumbent actually ends up having a kind of corral of a prey animals that new predators can come in hunt for new customers that they can come and hunt for, and the thing that they need is the freedom to make interoperable products without facing legal sanction and one of the things that concentrated industries have done in the years since they all use competitive compatibility to gain this advantage is to shut it off. So Mike talked about how power? was shut down by FACEBOOK FACEBOOK had a product a lot like powers that would log into my space for you and get your waiting my space messages and put them in your facebook inbox and let you reply to your space friends from facebook. You know the sauce for the goose is never sauce for the Gander when they did it was the legitimate progress of a new industry and when we do it to them piracy and we all know that story and I think one of the things we can imagine rather than just having this The that interoperability mandates be the the ceiling is that they might be the floor right this is the least that everyone has to support this or whatever but the ceiling would be whatever it is. Your competitors can figure out how to do provided. Don't violate some other law like a privacy law. Be Building healthy ecosystem where you have different of offerings with each their own specific value adds as a user I choose the one which is the most for me and healthy competition for the wind rights. Your dynamic dynamism. So with the movies, the social bomb, right? One of the main issues here is the issue of moderation, and so if we have a wider ecosystem of player especially those that are decentralized, many of them are decoupling that relationship between the client and the server or in other words, the APP and the server, right what you see in the data and how it stored. Is really becoming separated with many of these decentralized systems and what are the implications of that legally right. We have this whole legal regime that acts as if the Internet is facebook Google and instagram they it's it's it's based upon this idea that you have a you know huge army of lawyers I can deal with take downs I can deal with moderation things like that. How would a decentralized system us? What are some ideas that? We need to export to make sure that this works better. Open question. Jump in I I guess. I think part of part of it is that when we don't, we don't know I mean part of the idea behind staying having a decentralized or interoperable system is that it allows for really great experimentation right and you have that competition. That I'm indeed was talking about and the dynamism that corey was just talking about that allows for experiments. Because right now you know effectively were locked into just a very few experiments and they're very interesting experiments based on on these giant silos of data and the ability to run. You know different machine learning algorithms offer them or to throw you know ten twenty, thousand content moderators at them. But you know those kinds of models only work for those giant companies and I think what's interesting to me about a decentralized or distributed or protocol based system is that it would allow for all of us experimentation like I'm indeed said where different no different companies or different developers can can build on and see what works and part of the issues we don't know. And I should be clear here I've talked a lot about this and I think that you know a protocol based system is really important and would help do that experimentation. But I don't think that it alone is the solution I. Don't think that if we just went to this, you know this kind of world that you know suddenly the questions in the debate and the the concerns about content moderation go away because they don't but it allows for this this experimentation in these different approaches and we can begin to see things that are different than expecting that you know these giant companies that are within a forty mile radius of where I'm sitting hiring. Thousands of content moderators trying to throw ai added. That is the only possible solution to the content moderation question. Yet I just wanted to jump in and add that. I think a lot of these attempts toward solutions like an increased in Toronto ability to architectural technical decentralisation on antitrust, which is more like political centralization of the company's decision making structure in the entities that control these platforms. All of these really just try to get more alternatives out there and more alternatives at a the whole platform level Some other possibilities could even be just approaching particular aspects of how moderation creations done within the companies and allowing third parties to access. And through perhaps new API's or new ways of. Presenting interfaces to the user, and for example, there's this interesting testimony by Stephen Wolfram before Congress where he suggested. Let's say like we don't manage to break up these companies or centralized social media. What if we just had like automated content selection marketplaces? So third parties could run content selection in moderation a is, and so you might still have like monolithic social networks maybe there's marketplace's of feeds and then users can choose between these and can do this by providing like you know. Like. Final ranking providers and constraint providers who Put some of the features of the data out there for third party companies like rearrange and present back to the user in different ways. Another interesting idea that emerged from the cryptocurrency space is this idea of like content. Prediction markets, and so that can be used for duration or moderation purposes. So essentially, kind of crowd source make a content moderation like a micro task where tons of people can participate and say if they expect that a piece of content is going to eventually be. Deleted by moderator, they will place a small bet on that content being bleated of they're right. They win that money. So just like random ideas like this, which I think there's a lot of these kinds of ideas out there that attack certain pieces of the problem, and if you think about how do you open up the data and open up the no. If he is from Herat now came towards that those are steps towards the helpful direction. I. Think that giving up a having a multiplicity of places that you can turn to to act as your proxy and deciding what you see and in what order you see it is really key right that that what we want to self determination and ultimately self-determination the is always going to be hard to get because you're going to have to find a community that agrees with you about what the norms should be, and if you're not a tool Smith, you're going to have to convey your requirements to a tool Smith. And incentivize them to make it, and so all of those not gonNA pretend that like moving moderation closer to the people who were being moderated will solve our problems, but we don't have any hope of solving any of them for so long as we are asking for large firms to come up with moderation schemes that satisfy the needs of all their users, I mean the the problem with facebook is not merely that mark. Zuckerberg's singularly on qualified to be the Lord High Executioner of two point six, billion people socialize. It's. that. No one should have that job right You know a one hundred and fifty countries one hundred and fifty languages thousands of community norms lots of different use cases. Lots of different threat models You know you look twitter, which has a policy for example, that you can't use screen shots to report harassment because they're too easy to forge. Well, that's great except that there's a bunch of really terrible dudes who harass women and Comex by sending them really crappy. DM's deleting them and then sending public timeline messages that reference those. DELETED DM's but that you can't are don't actually cross twitter's threshold unless you have seen the the deleted, the m privately, and so they can do continuous ongoing harassment and stable thrush the threshold for enforcement at twitter. But if those people could choose to have their own instance that was federated with twitter whether or not twitter approved of that federation, they could among themselves agree on a norm that they trusted each other enough to treat screen shots as evidence of harassment and bar all of those users communiques from their own server. Without having to adopt that for all of twitter's users. Let's Erstad brochure taking with may takes. So we have we have a project which is. What we call morally relative reputation where basically you could subscribe to other people's greatest people you agree with people you trust. So that it applies there filtering on the kinds of things you want to see the kind of people you want to talk to to you as well. We rewarded commencing its in for a full rations in terms of banning servers. On this kind of things I think the important thing to add to that. Is. Why it good for people because it's protecting them, there is also the risk of creating even more the bubbles and what we need to get right and is going to be super hard is actually show people whether standing the rest of the world. So basically, you have a world. Where you stand in terms of I want to hear wrought. WHOEVER TRUNK TO SAY THAN I listened to it. But Hey, look. What happens if I take my pin? Put It on the other side of the world and hear what the others have to say or you are aligned with zero zero, zero five. percent of the population the rest of the world community disagreed with you and I think what were miss it if we're going to need is really make sure that people here the other side of the story otherwise we're back into this big puzzles. How to solve that is going to be. Right, and so we're talking a lot about having when we have a more decentralized in tropical system we'll be able to have more experimentation, of course that also means. Making the moderation systems closer to the end user and not this big centralized Sistan that has all of this power to decide what is acceptable content. What is not which is just based upon you know all these thousands of people locked in rooms that are moderating the spaces and also many of these top down decisions that are based upon laws, and you know in some countries that have very antiquated laws around free free expression and things like that. So what kinds of organizations do we need? That to make this possible, I want to shift us to you know what brings you hope In the next ten years, what kinds of organizations what kinds of movement do we need to move towards us path of having better systems where we actually have space where we communicate where we're learning things were connecting to people genuinely and we're not getting harassed and abused, and all those things what I wanted to ask each of you to comment on what brings you hope in the next ten years. I WANNA go who wants to go first. Jen. Nicole on you. Okay, I'll go first I think one of the things that giving me hope is. Made recently of people moving away from large public conversations on twitter and facebook moving into more private things through private slacks, discords, mailing lists, sub stacks, like this isn't the ideal situation but I think this is kind of a natural decentralisation that's happening as people migrate to shared communities like their interests, things like this like seeing more the this fragmentation happening makes me wonder if it is possible to you know re consolidate around an open protocol. This time that ties together a lot of these disparate messaging chat platforms like maybe know Matrix already doing for may be like expanding it to many other use cases that include more social media is a possibility in the near horizon. Something else is emerging workaround decentralized identities standards. There's D.'s and other forms of. At any. Protocols have been worked on by the W Three C recently, and I think simply that emerged that could get widely adopted. I'm seeing a lot of adoption happening in. Space Right now but like also by more peer to peer social media, apps and things like that, that could enable this kind of vision of a more decentralised system in which many different applications can interact with the same users, data and user data and relationships can be more controlled by themselves. Just. To be clear may traits can work perfectly well for social media it's just a matter of building the top of it. Rich it's. Right I mean isn't social media just one big chat room sort of. Or twitter that is WANNA go next. Mike on you. All right. Sure I've been called on so I think I think there are a lot of things that give me hope I mean the fact that we're here and that there however many people watching this and having this discussion and I've. been talking about this for a few years and obviously you know wrote that paper last year and that got a lot of attention and every time I write about it talk about it. I have more and more people reaching out to me wanting to talk more about it that gives me hope right I. mean this wasn't something that I tossed out there and I certainly didn't come up with a whole cloth everybody else lots of other people including people here in the group on stage. And watching all had these ideas and everybody's sort of built on it and and you know we're continuing to sort of refine and move towards something better and so I'm excited about that. It's not like this idea was out there and everyone's like Nah Not GonNa Work Right? There are some people who say that but there's so many people who are trying things in working on things I. Think we're still a long way off I know that every time I talk about this at least. Three people will reach out to me after this and say, I've built the solution and that's generally not. The way this works you know there hasn't been one single solution certainly in just looking at at adoption which is sort of the next big key pieces figuring how do we actually get people to do these things but I think all of the things that the J. brought up are exactly right that you know people are looking for something and we see that and people are finding it in different places and so I think the next ten years or bring to be a lot of interesting experimentation. And hopefully that move towards something better and I hope on the side of that that. The regulatory side of things does help and doesn't make things worse though I that I'll. I'll put in a little bit of fear I do fear that we're going to go the wrong way with some of the some of the regulatory approaches. A Fargo now on the next. We're going to go into audience Q. and A. and just a few minutes. So if you have any questions put it in the chat right there. So Dean. What is your vision of? Hope. So the fuck awareness is basically growing as my big hope on. Yeah. On every time we regulation is going out there is communication the run as more and more people are actually talking about it writing about it and this great and I hope this is going to continue growing. The fact that we have tools to experiment with on, we're, hey, we're super excited to eventually managed to start building this reputation systems see where can go and work with the rest of the open source. Ecosystem a bit matrix others to solve. This poll Fake News Biz Information, and then the actually get somewhere. So we have people we the tech and awareness is growing. So we can get somewhere. It's just a matter of doing it. Cari. Yeah I think the thing that gives me hope I've talked about this at other Internet archive events is that people who are upset that the web has turned into like five giant websites each filled with screen shots of the other four are starting to figure out that they're they're not alone. Right. We live in a world with five publishers for movie studios, three record companies to beer companies and one. I wear company like dominating their industries, right? One movie theater want ecommerce site, and so on and that all of these they have a common cause right there and it's not it's not that tech is run by super. Geniuses or super villains. Because, if it was, then we wouldn't see the consolidation and professional wrestling, which is definitely not run by super geniuses and so I think that if we want to understand what's going on, we have to look to these big structural factors that are changing and part of what we're here to talk about today's misinformation and I think that the explanatory power of conspiracy theories is really under theorized that like when you live in. A world where every industry is concentrated into. So few hands thing effectively get to write their own regulations and when those regulations create enormous actual harms and trauma I think about people who are trying to live through the lockdown with twentieth century broadband, and we had frontier go bankrupt in the middle of the lockdown. One of the things we learned in their bankruptcy filings is that they had three million households they could have profitably. Connected to hundred gigabit broadband that they were the only company that served that they would have made eight hundred million dollars on a one billion dollar investments at one point, eight billion in total over ten years, and they chose not to do it to lose money over ten years because the analysts who dominate the share prices of their industry don't give good ratings to any with more than five years recoup and the executives. In the company were paid in stock, and so their personal compensation go down three million families are now trying to survive the pandemic locked doors with DSL, made of copper that was installed in the seventies because of frontiers, bad incentives and lack of competition we have common cause right and that's how we make a difference. Jimmy Boyle says that before the word ecology was coined, there were thousand issues, owls, ozone layer, the you know. Freshwater Saltwater and whatever, and it was a thousand atomised issues. But the term ecology welded a thousand issues together into a single movement with a thousand ways to get involved, and we are not going to solve tech with tech tech will be part of the solution we're GONNA. solve. Tech. With a change in the way that we governed firms and we're going to get that change by making common cause with their brothers and sisters who are angry that their kids are going to university where two textbook monopolist have raised prices ten thousand percent. And there we're GONNA make common cause of people are angry that their local emergency room has been bought by Private Equity Fund. That's about every other emergency care. Facility for twenty miles and has raise prices, thousands of percent. We're GONNA make common cause with people who are angry because there's only two companies making all the beer and one company controlling all the wrestling right and that's how we're going to make a difference. Thank you so much for your. Excellent. So I WANNA move to audience questions Wendy have you. Seen some like to read out loud sure. Here's a question from James for the panelists. What have you learned about getting these benefits to resonate with real users on the street? What's the level of utility we need to get to? Before we can be a credible alternative to the mainstream apps rather than just an uncomfortable tradeoff or the privacy conscience. I'll jump in. I think that's a really really important question. I. Think that one of the. One of the problems is that we do and this is natural and it's the way sort of every. Evolution of technology seems to work is that the first thing that we do is recreate what was already there and often do it in clunky way. Right. This is sort of the classic innovators dilemma to some extent and so that's it's very difficult to get people to use it to to use things based on that. If we're just recreating twitter or just recreating facebook and doing an distributed way, they're really honestly whether we like it or not. There aren't enough people who care to make that big enough to matter So the next stage of it is has to be enabling the kinds of powerful things that were not able to be done. Before that the kinds of things that facebook would not do by itself that Google would not do by itself that twitter would not do by itself. I. Don't know exactly what those are because there's a lot of different areas that you could go down and I don't know which one is going to resonate the most. But I think the if we really want to get people to use these things, we have to come up with what is unique and different than a distributed decentralized platform enables in a creative way that almost goes up against the things that the big companies already do that they cannot move down that path and they they cannot copy that. It was sort of undermine their their way of being and that creates some new value something new benefit that goes way beyond just recreating what is already there because if you just recreating youtube, you know Youtube is going to beat you at that. But if you can do something that that allows for something more powerful built on something like a Youtube people will follow you there. So. Strange enough results quite a lot about this. Yeah I agree. But basically, what the arrest of like the clothes company are providing is the baseline you have to have user experience, which is as good as slack. WHAT'S UP ON COMPANY? You have to get to do this label of of usability what you're going to bring there is the fact that you're A, you're a network. So. Admits that people you're not forcing people you're talking to to actually use the same as you do. Then, if you have an ecosystem which is by Brunton, Ben, you have multiple ups doing multiple things in very specific ways on all these APPs with its real each bring their own their own users into this network, and that's the kind one of the differentiator but you need to get to a level of network, which is as big as what the others have with their level of USABILITY, which is as big as well. The other hand. Here's another question to the panelists she we building alternative or complimentary infrastructure. Who? I actually I wanted to weigh in on the last one but this this works well. I think that. If you actually look at the history of where a lot of new technologies came from they came by plugging something new into something that existed that fixed something that the old company didn't want to make that that you know if the company gives away razor blades and gives away handles and churches for razor blades, the new company comes along and and gives away razor blades right and fights them beat them at their own. Game You have, for example, lex mark suits, static controls in the early two thousands for refilling at and reengineering their toner cartridges these to charge more for loose carbon powder than it would have cost. If it had been in diamond form and and LEX mark just reverse engineered it survived the lawsuit currently they are or rather a static controls. This Taiwanese company reverse engineered the lawsuit curly own LEX Mark. Right it like I think that. You know figuring out how to make facebook better is the first step to getting people to use facebook right to being a thing where that that eats facebook launched that goes where facebook dare not go right an Adblocker for facebook that scraped everything that you might Wanna read from facebook and then presented it to you in a non tracking environment. So facebook couldn't gather behavioral DATA WOULD BE A. Really powerful way to use facebook and lots of people would do it because the part they like about facebook is the part where they see their friends and stuff they're interested in the part they don't like is where they're spied on all the time and you could just give them the one without the other and what stands in the way. Our is the thicket of laws that prevent interoperability. I wanted. To one thing I was thinking is. What I think are the most the highest utility things that decentralisation can offer users to think. offline I actually think it's a privacy and data ownership an all those are more abstract many cases and there is censorship resistance and that doesn't just need government censorship, platforms ship and I think those are the main things. That new platforms can offer, but also by thinking about ways in which platforms have different business model because they're not building the same kind of mute. Would they offer? So for example, being more open to interoperability because it is centralized protocol rather than trying to leave close users interoperability, itself can be a huge bonus for users if they can reach the friends across all different platforms as able to do that of course. and then another thing I've been thinking is that there are maybe instead of the and recreating services of the past. If you like a lot of decentralized protocols, keep going in and trying to recreate twitter like micro blogging or stuff that was really like the peak of social networking five to ten years ago as opposed to looking at emerging new interfaces like what about you know forms of video social networking Tiktok. Things that are much more active or what about the debt you know You know. So that gather tons really cool. They're like spatial videoconferencing. What about stuff going on Vr ar can you get in ahead of these new technologies and try to set something in place that expresses more vision of the web you want as it evolves forward. So instead of say, the snow crash world in which everything in a are. Owned by one company how do you have like decentralized space like not central ended tried to do something. Another space like Iot things I've seen Amazon starting this thing called sidewalk, which is there like a bunch of like IOT devices in the neighborhood that they'll connect using. Bluetooth and give you more activity this way, and this is really a dream of a lot of like Mesh networking advocates I think and now that Amazon is doing it in the highly centralized way. It kind of like takes some of that excitement out of it but I'm worried that they'll get their first for some of knee offline functionality that local first decentralized APPs or networks can offer. Here's another question for Jay. You've done an overview of decentralised social media APPS. What are the open questions they have yet to answer that are preventing them for reaching scale. Well, okay. So I think one of the biggest ones is business models. How do you the positive feedback loop of business model that lets you invest more into the business grow it grow the platform like a lot of these things are a donation run or they`re Funded. Through another company or like some other source of money that's not related to. The APP itself making money, and so how do you create a decentralize abysmal essentially Zapper centralized environment I think that's one of the really big open questions the tackle. So even just experimentation basically with the same things just different business models could be really useful. Say No mastodon throwing this different business models. If that works getting, that would be really useful in trying to figure out what could work long term for the space. Another big thing I think is identity like I was saying earlier like social graph for all sorts, of interactivity. Purposes. is like the unifying thread for the user online and really like maybe one of the regions of the web was You know not really figuring out early on not let's say that they could have. How'd you figure out? A way to create identity as a core. Protocol level thing that me no browsers would support as opposed to being something that got implemented mostly on top social networking apps that now owner online identity. and then another one is definitely moderation because I don't think a decentralized APPs just magically solved essentially assault moderation like they give you more options for playing with different strategies. But whenever these doesn't rise, APPS, have started to reach the scale terrain really becomes a problem I. Think you know in the mastodon Matrix nudity it's reached that level although a lot of smaller ones still have mostly you know. well-intentioned hobbyist users and not like serious malicious actors. Once he reached that scale, what are the tools they need to moderate effectively I think that is still an ongoing experimentation research. Question from Eva. How does a move towards adoption of decentralized web intersect with the increasing national isolationism of technology around the world? For example, see the US's moved to block while way by dance Sorry, I'm using my hardware mute button I, recommend them to everyone. So the the there's a story that goes that we need national champions to save us from China right that we need these big firms that will that will jost with You know we bow and whatnot and and I think that this ignores history. You Know Tim Wu had a very good essay about this. When he talked about the history of the at and T. break-up whereas eighteen was being broken up a Japan's electronics industry was making serious inroads into the global electronics marketplace that had heretofore been dominated. By the US, it was a source of gigantic anxiety that America was. GonNa lose the tech race to Japan and they said, how can we break up at and T. they're gonna if we break them up then we won't have a champion to fight for us and defend us from Japan and what actually happened when we broke up at and T. is the company was no longer allowed to stop us from plugging Botham's into the phone line right that turned out to be pretty good for American technology and competition so To the extent that there are these these that there are these people playing this game where they're like what we need is this giant clanking slow moving tank that is itself like Hamstrung by its own organizational inertia and also is wound into. So many of our like policy domains that anything they do to change just you know has all these stakeholders in the government that that show makes that they come in shout at them and so on. Those people are going to get you know completely overrun by smaller nimble firms that are not beholden to the interests of shareholders, the winners, the last tech lottery, but instead are trying to make the very best tech that is possible. You rely on open source open standards than you can actually have get control of where and how, and who is building it and. As you say the small people can actually get control as well anger. They dismal companies and they were canceled projects actually don't are not beholden to the big to the big investors. The other thing is if you look at you know the mechanism by which. The Commerce Department is trying to block we chat and Tiktok that only works when you're dealing with big centralized players If you have sort of smaller distributed decentralized players it becomes much more difficult to to have nation states come in and say, you can no longer use those those apps here You know there are certain limitations and certain things that can happen but. The war centralize it is the easier it is to block as well. I. Think something like talk concern is that it's so centralized that it's also you know perhaps back to the Chinese centralized government able to peek into this centralized APP and really ultimately I think. What we're seeing is kind of a test of models, technological models being played out at the national level. So China's gone just like full centralization everything centralized will nominate a winner in this category now known alibaba rules straight, and that was easier centralized government to manage and everything, and us has many very large centralized companies to what I guess a lot of people in the US to care about democracy in competition. Resilience of like diversity of approaches are trying to do is to get. More alters out there. How can we do things with more voices more democratically more smaller competitors as opposed to just having one winner in each category, and then just having them face off and so the real success in the long run I think is in the US we can or the West in general, we can foster a more of a ecosystem of smaller. You know more competitive products and projects companies that can kind of do an end run around these models that China's going and I. Guess what I fear is going down the path where we just end up in the same situation thinking the only way to successfully moderate speech in the US and to successfully compete economically with China is to have the exact same business models that they do have like one big monolithic social network or whatever company that the US government has a lot of influence over that. I think is the worst outcome in which basically we all go down that path globally as opposed to having moral tournaments. Our final question is from a techie. All Inert. Who Asks is anyone else out there worried that we have too much tech solution ISM for social problems. Yes. Yeah I I mean There are a few different ways to answer this question, but I think it is an important question is worth thinking about right. There you know it is difficult to separate out. Which of these problems are societal cultural problems and which of them are the technology sort of emphasizing those societal and cultural problems and this is a debate that could go on forever and potentially is not all that interesting. But I I think it is important to to to think through to recognize that. And I don't think. I. Know that a lot of the conversation here because of the framing was very much about the technology solution ism to some extent like you can. We build these these alternatives but I don't think any you know. I know all of my my panels I don't think any of us are thinking that way I. Think we all recognize that there are societal and cultural issues underlying all of this The fact is. Well. I'll speak for myself not for everybody else I. Don't know how to solve the cultural and societal problems. I can have an impact on the technology and therefore, I'm going to push on that element while recognizing that. Yes there obviously are much larger societal and cultural issues that that are really at play here, and if anyone has a good solution to those as well, I'm all ears would be happy to listen. I think we need. Social people who know about society to work together with technologists because everything which happens on nine. Has To be solved by some level of technical. Solutions Rights that we need some input from the social side on Chris side what we see online is a reflective. What can seen In reality is you can experimental nine on extra aid that tried to force. And, expound out in the reality as well unearned from it. Yet just to jump in I think we're grappling. As a society as a culture right now with. changes caused by new technologies, and there are different social approaches to the ways that we deal with this and you know rearrange reorganized things just outside of the new structures themselves that have introduced a lot of these changes but then also thinking about how those structures are built and how we can change to also have downstream impacts on what kind of social structures are possible. Rearrangements are possible. That's that I think is a really interesting place to be. And it's also I. Think there's a probably. Like A. Probably, easier to get started with some of these little experimental solutions route because you don't have to get mass social consensus to push legislative solutions forward if you just say, start a new open source project that aims to create a new kind of no interoperability, your identity standard or something these things can be plead within. Attempted to work at a smaller scale. So this more like a single person can do to create this kind of change I've been. I I want to propose a highly selective brand of tech exceptionalism that we should consider following. It it's that on the one hand tech is definitely exceptional right? So it has these two characteristics that make it very exceptional. The first one is that tech is universal, right? It has the this universal turing completeness. It has this universal non-discriminatory network capability, which means that tech has an interoperability capability that is not present and other technologies. Edison used to sell phonograms that had special spindle holes and warning saying that if you try to put her on someone else's record player that he'd come after you but you know. It he had that like hardware incompatibility that was kind of hard to overcome whereas with software it's just software right all the when your iphone refuses to run an APP that apple has an checked the I approve box on it's not because they can't run it. It's because it won't right. We have that universality and so that is exceptional. It's distinct from other industries and other domains and the other way in which tags exceptional is that it touches so much of. Everything else right. If we're going to organize a better world, a about where we address the climate crisis or where we address inequality or any other problems that we have we're going to fight and win or lose those battles on technological battleground right that it's it's not sufficient to change our social problems. But without at the battle is lost, it is necessary but there's one which technology is not exceptional, which is that it's not a substitute for governance right that that. You know the the caricature of the Old Cypher punk dream that we find a key link that is so long that we can use it to build kind of cryptographic. Demi Monde that we can shelter under while oppressive and unresponsive and illegitimate states forum outside of our impenetrable bubble it's always been a an absurd idea because rubber hose cryptanalysis is not a thing that you prevent with longer keys. If you want the police to not tied to a chair and hit you with a rubber hose until you tell them what you're pass phrases, we need the rule of law and what technology can do and what cryptography and privacy tools can do is give us a temporary respite where we can hope that we don't make a single mistake that allows her adversaries to gain entry while our adversaries look for just one mistake that they use to invalidate our efforts. And from that temporary shelter, we can organize to build permanent structural changes that give us the responsive legitimate democracies that are really ultimately are only hedge against bad activity. I was reading this book recently called what the Internet could have been and I think it's also important to not forget that in the grand scale of technological change. The Internet is so new and I mean literally it's inventors are still coming to D. Web conferences, vint CERF. And we're able to rub shoulders with the people. You know the giants whose l.. Rub elbows with the giants on whose shoulders renowned stand. So sent. Great. So it's like. We're so close to the very origins of this technology that it's far too early for us to say, Oh, well, I guess everything is centralized and now just a few companies rule this whole space because it's been like that for ten years I mean ten years is nothing like we have so much more opportunity to change this right now. So that's why that. In particular at this point in time in history, really important to focus on some of the tech solutions here because the tech has not fully solidified yet, and we still have time to change it before it touches literally everything in the world and our houses and cars and every devices part of the internet which no longer exists the Internet because it's just everything. That's a great Segue J. for my closing question. which is you know you just said that there is time to change. We can do this. It's still very new. What can people do to do to help with that? We have a whole audience of activists and developers and researchers who are looking into these questions. For each of you I want to ask maybe one or two pieces of. Action they could take to help bring this new Internet board Jay you WANNA go first. Sure. Okay. So I would say just trial Hornets I mean try Mastodon try matrix tried to. Give feedback because a lot of these big companies do everything through AB testing extensively, every single feature teams of two hundred people dedicated to adding features in detecting problems. A lot of these small alternative projects are run by like one to ten who are doing all the coding and they don't have time to. Figure everything out and so if you try them out and then give feedback on what you liked, what you didn't like what you would like to see what you think your friends family would use it illiquid features if they added your friends and family with us it, that is a huge contribution to these projects I. Think like file bug reports, file requests, do things like that. And then something else I would say is just support regulation been really. Good regulation it'd be really careful about thinking thinking through the effects on smaller startups in smaller competitors. So I think that there's like an instinctive desire for any kind of regulation comes down line. It's like, oh. Yes. Privacy interoperability. We want those things. It's like how are those achieved and is that something that is just regulatory costs that I can absorb but smaller ones can't. A Mike can pass it then. Yeah. Sure. J. stole my my entire answers. Yeah that's that's I think I think she's exactly right right. So trying trying out the different things but then certainly paying attention to the regulatory battles and legal battles there are a bunch of different important legal fights that are going on right now obviously you know Corey's with the F F F F is a good, really great source to to. Pay attention to for for where and how all those different legal battles are playing. there are other civil society groups also that are worth following and paying attention. You know. It's nice to think you know one of the things that I think the developer community in particular often likes to try and ignore you know legal and regulatory battles. Sort of saying you know we'll just kinda coat around it or whatever I think that's that's dangerous and I think part of the reason that were in this. This mess that we're in today is in part because of previous, regulatory and legal regimes and so I think we need to be very, very careful about you know what? What sorts of things come down the road so paying attention close careful attention and not just assuming like, okay if it's bad. For, facebook if it's going to regulate facebook or Google that must be good because in some cases it might be. But in a lot of cases, it's going to be the type of thing that facebook can handle it, and then we lock in facebook forever and that's that's the thing that worries me the most. So I think paying attention to those speaking up You know I know it's very easy to be cynical and to say that you know, Congress, doesn't listen to people. That's not really true. You know on certain issues maybe. But in a lot of cases on especially on issues like says if you speak up and if you call your Congressman or senator or or whatever other representative you know they they will actually pay attention a lot of cases and so it is really worth doing and speaking up and making a difference that way. Two hundred percents behind both like Andrzej. I would add if your Dave Locker please contributes to the project. But what I think, what is what is missing is where? People are vocal gut where a bit in our bubble of people who know about are discussing about it. But again here, activists technologies working in that area. Let's try to speak out. Let's try to touch as many people as possible outside the circle. We had this debate just before when we're preparing for this thing, look. This. Up when we were talking about the social saying okay. Did you like it guys and then we? Were it spits on between wants hun it's. It's a lot of things. We know maybe the push it too far by trying to. Persuade the Algorithm it's on other hand are so many people who don't know what Algorithm is. Maybe that's how far we need to go. Maybe how how can we? Help. Can we simplify this? How can we make it easy for people to understand of? How. How they're stuck in this in this big bubbles. Completely. Buffeted by this algorithm how can we do this because? Yes, there is a good group of people who understand them or trying to act were pushing for regulations, etc. Why outs ninety percent of the rest of the world we need to touch these people. So let's try to find ways and be vocal towards that these people as well. And last but not least Corey. Sure I mean I obviously I think you should get involved with the F. to and I think that talking to politicians a special election year is important and this is year where where these issues are on a lot of politicians minds. I I would add. That as technologists, you can help bring a healthy dose. Of Skepticism to the discourse about how effective machine learning at manipulation right that the best source we have for how good big tech is a getting us to do stuff is their own sales pitch to people are hoping to sell ads to right? That's the origin of the story that big tech has a mind control ray and you know the idea that like Google. And facebook built mind-control rate is sell your kid fidget spinners and then Robert Mercer stolen and made your uncle racist is certainly very comforting if you wanna go on loving your uncle but maybe it's like the social conditions that created the the paranoia conspiracy system, and so on that that has led to that and maybe we shouldn't believe big tax I mean after all. When they tell us they pay their taxes they're lying when they tell us they punish sexual predators who work in their executive ranks. They're trying when they told us they weren't building drone stuff they were lying when they told us they weren't building a search engine for China they were lying when they told us that they weren't minding their own suppliers data to make knockoff products they were lying. Do we think that the only time they're telling the truth is when they file patent applications and boasts to to their customers about how good their products are, why they should spend top dollar on ads? I think that we need to be really skeptical of their claims and of the claims. Have emerged from people who I think are well intentioned critics of tech. Not. Lee Not merely because we should know what's true but also because if we really do think they have a mind control ray, then the temptation is to demand that they use it for good right to to not make them. So small that they can no longer wheeled. It not least because you know the mind control advocates say that if you break up Google and facebook, you end up with a thousand pics PIP squeaks with mind control rays as opposed to a couple of big easy to regulate companies. We can either fix the Internet. We can fix the tech companies and you know I think that everyone who ever claimed to have built mind control turned out to be a liar whether it was rescued in or the CIA with M. K. Ultra or pickup artists they're all kidding themselves or US or both right I don't give these guys credit for for being you know Super Geniuses from another dimension recognize that they are ordinary mia mediocrities no better or worse than. You and me and assume that what they're getting away with their getting away with because no one's checking the same bad impulses that we all have and not because of some exceptional character of technology that demands that we draped them in golden chains and appoint them kind of the the constitutional monarch of our technological future where they consent to take some actions out of Noblesse Lbj that benefited all while continuing to govern our entire electronic nervous system for the centuries to come. Okay with that, we have to end our meet up. Thank you so so much to Oliver. Amazing panelists was such a great discussion. I'm leaving the so pumped and inspired, and I hope you all do to this has been recorded. So if you WANNA, show this to your friends or your networks please share that will be posting that on the Internet archive website and now will be going to gather town for those of us who want to continue the discussion and if you want if you want to talk about a specific thing, you can put it in the global chat and say hey I wanNA. Talk about this part of that discussion or. You can put on global chat and say, Hey, I'm going to be on the beach or I'm going to be in the bar downstairs and gather town. So feel free to hang out thereafter this. When you have any last thoughts. Just said, I'm in October to build on course point, we're going to have him long with a very new book questioning the whole Fallacy of the advertising model on weather really delivers his prime attention crisis so I'll send y'all. Invited our next event but have fun. Last month people hung up in gathered Tanto three thirty PM. So go have lunch come back It's really fun and thank you so much for joining us skin us a lot of hope and. Things to think about. So we'll see Yan gather. To. The. For Shipping. Of. The tax.

facebook twitter Mike Corey US Google Cory I Jay Graber wrestling apple Wendy Internet founder Mike Mass Ishikawa Sutton US Department of Treasury
Covid vaccine the US, Roblox IPO delay, and friend of Pivot Stephanie Ruhle

Pivot

1:04:11 hr | 7 months ago

Covid vaccine the US, Roblox IPO delay, and friend of Pivot Stephanie Ruhle

"Support for this episode comes from bright cove. Real businesses deserve a real video platform. That's for bright. Coach comes in a video platform built for alias global conferences not be list celebrity gossip trusted by big time brands to deliver big time communications and unparalleled customer support. It's all business for your business. Brajkovic video means business. Learn more at. Bri t c. o. v. e. dot com cyber attacks in a matter of minutes instead of days. Cyberrays and you can. Cyber reason helps protect your data on computers mobile devices servers and the cloud from cyberattacks defending you from attackers working under the cover of digital darkness. Cyber reason analyzes eighty million events per second. That's one hundred times the volume other defenders and reduces response time by ninety three percent. How how by blanketing your systems and defense to cut attack short and send you alerts when it matters most and cyberattacks it takes the brightest minds global cyber intelligence working to deliver future ready protection to guard your data wherever the fight moves. Siberian is ready to win the battle with you and for you and cyberattacks from points to everywhere learn more at cyber isn't dot com. That's c. y. B. e. r. e. a. s. o. n. dot com. Hi everyone this is pivot from new york magazine. In the vox media podcast network. I'm tara swisher. And i'm scott galloway. Well hello it's elector day. It's a day across the united states. Everyone's the electoral college is convenient to cast votes for joe biden who will win and And the trump people still think they're gonna win. Which is interesting. Stephen miller settlers can be an alternate slate of electors. Alternate universe is no concern. Probably his friends. The frenzy has which of which count account zero. So that's happening. Which is great. Which hopefully we're getting closer and closer to not having problems here but it's gonna go down to the wires. Trump has said. He's not going to stop. But i think we need to start ignoring him absolutely and completely. So i'm going to move on for russian. Hackers actually the complaining about a fraudulent and hacked the election. Russian hackers are actually believed to have hacked into small systems e mail systems at the department of treasury and commerce over the course of months undetected. It's possible other departments as well as private companies have been hacked as well. So this is the actual rigging and hacking going on by the russians which was disclosed this this this weekend at the same time. Google went down For short time last night so a lot going on what do you. What do you make of this. Well if you think about. At the end of the day the president or our elected officials are managers in all managers are supposed to do as allocate capital to a greater return than Capital that's allocated by competitive. Managers are managers that competitive organizations. And so if you think about the leadership and other organizations where they're allocating capital Relative to where we're allocating capital. I think russia's outplaying us russia's figured out that okay you have the us that spends ten times that spends more on their military conventional military aircraft carriers planes tanks then the next ten nations combined. We just can't compete and we would like them to compete with us. We would like them to build aircraft carriers but they've decided that's about money so there over investing in cyber warfare and we. I mean if you really think about our capital allocation we spent seven hundred billion dollars in the military somewhere between six and twelve billion on the cdc. And i don't know what we spend on cybersecurity. But i would imagine that relative to the threat. Our management isn't allocating capital as efficiently as russia because if russia can weaponize facebook and it. A minimum decrease the sanctity of elections if they can tap into federal agencies and create a level of security and create a level. It makes us look bad. It just makes our brand the kind of week. It's just this. They're not doing their job. They're not your ups their managers who are not doing their jobs and instead of putting up you know focused on one focused not on. Kobe focused to not on russian. The actual threats to our democracies things like this. It's really. I mean the ease of the the especially now that we're so dependent on on these technologies. It's really amazing. How badly This administration has managed. There's an there's an algebra of deterrence and unfortunately it's gotten to the point where. I don't think there's a huge. This is like an invasion. This isn't sonar and on the homeland. And i think the biden administration needs to be very thoughtful and coordinate with the secretary of defense and our allies and pick me on heart. Well there we got anymore in that we gotta find a a city a satellite city or something in in russia or something of strategic interest. And we need to shut it off like a fucking light. So if you're gonna if you're gonna continue to do this we're gonna start hitting back. We're better at this than trump isn't gonna do anything there's no guarantee there's no fear of reprisal that all right speaking of algebra. It's not really algebraic. Disease investor day presentation shows the company moving even further into streaming. They quietly well jason. Keiler is taken all the arrow listening to your interview. Jason yeah guys good. But he's still they're coming at him all the hollywood people first off. He's a tall politics totally shit. He outright lied twice. Oh movie theaters are great. We still i still love going to movies. Yeah he just put a fucking stake through their heart and like hbo. Max no actually doing quite well. Hvl max has been a fucking disaster. Yeah i'm gonna give him. He should run for senate. Disney was doing a lot of the same stuff but quietly in a relationship he way. The shares of doubled since march. Is there see how contract strategy different from. What jason's doing jason's doing their work for them spayed. Oh gosh i mean this. This is so gangster. If you think about all strategy comes down to one question ellie what can we do. It is hard. What can we do did is so hard. Everyone else has a tough time doing. Here's the thing with a twenty billion dollar original content budget. It's very hard to do. A better job of original content. And i would bet the next quote unquote queen's gambit. Original stories have never been told before will likely come from netflix. Or maybe even hbo. Max but what can disney do. Disney can say you know. We spent a hundred billion dollars by these franchises called pixar lucasfilm called marvel. And what are we gonna do. We're going to spin up six series. What can net flicks not do even if they spent fifty billion dollars original content. They can't have this amazing mini series on a young landau cal. Ricin they can start Oh gosh it's such an amazing character introduced That rosario dawson is going to play. They can have their spending up. They're gonna spend up literally every other week. A new franchise adjunct from mandalorian. Turn star wars. You'll be very happy. Jason which they have a lot of ip one of the things he talked about a lot was the amount they had dragons everything. Everything game of thrones. They have a lot more than that. They've got a ton of prince adorn. They've got a lot of door. Bats bats bisexual in the world and grant. I don't know a ton of bisexuals. But he sets the bar he probably use sets the bar. Actually right probably do probably do. But here's the he definitely. i mean they. He was talking about using a lot of their assets and the fact that they hadn't been used and so. I think you're gonna see a lot of that. The question is whether he's pissed off. I think those people go wherever. The money is honestly. I talked to ben smith about it. He was like right in the middle. I was like dating. Call them too bad. They bought the stuff. They can do whatever they would. Newsflash just in christopher nolan and the head of ca who make thirty to fifty million dollars a year. The existing film industrial complex thing change is a bad idea. Shocker shocker and you know what all these guys will absolutely go with the next dollar notion that somehow i'd appetite was like i wasn't called us like so. What like who cares like years ago. Let me tell you years ago when When i when i bought time warner and ted turner got all knickers in a knot later. I he said it was the best thing since sex and then he said he didn't like it. I recall i think it was berry dealer. He's like your solar house they can do whatever the fuck they want to it. They can put up a shitty. How do you want it. They can tear it down. You shouldn't have cell if you were so mad don't sell your house and to me more nuance here. Because they have back. End deals largely senate upon chrysalis. They're going to have to. They're going to have to pull out their checkbooks and say okay. You weren't expecting this is a different model. They'll come they'll be settled by lawyers yet but it's literally like jc penney sang amazon is a terrible shopping experience. It's just it's okay all right we're going to get on. We are with hall. He realized we're effectively dictating disney strategy. This point who six months ago said disney needed to go full rondo. Who said the six months ago. scott. Thank you okay. Scott big stories covid. Nineteen vaccine is officially being distributed united states. French talked about this with stephanie related. Because she just had covert the first person to receive the vaccine in the. Us was an icu. Nurse in newark. I love that. It was lovely across the. I like this whole the public. Having it of it. I really think it's great across the country. One hundred and forty five sites were set to receive the vaccine on monday. Four hundred twenty five on tuesday and sixty six on wednesday. Meanwhile major airlines including united jet blue introducing. An app called common pass that will verify passengers cova status. They should have done this a long time ago. The apple then issue confirmation codes enabling passengers board certain international flights It's just the start of a push for digital cova credentials as people start receiving the vaccine What do you think. The united states distribution plant is getting criticized Largely because we didn't order enough and who could step in and streamline. How's it going to. It's going to be months and months. And meanwhile bill gates is saying it's going to be untold twenty twenty mid twenty twenty two before anything's normal others say much earlier. What is your feelings. There's so many things impact here. The for first and foremost this is really really exciting. And wonderful in terms of the what makes us human in terms of cooperation and having disproportionate brain so large. We have to be expelled from our mother early. This is our superpower is a species and vaccines represent our superpower and so it's very exciting It's also there's some very scary things here what's going to happen. Under the auspices of vaccine people are going to loosen their behavior. We're going to see record data league. We're going to see record death during the vaccine as it's distributed we're gonna see a lot of selfish behaviors specifically people deciding to wait because they have these fucked up nonscientific non data driven fears around this vaccine. Which is total is nonsense. And we need to dispel. We need to we need to. We need to dispel people of the notions or we need to outline. What are the real risks here. And it's something similar to not being eaten by a shark or struck by lightning but being struck by lightning while you're being eaten by a shark we need i'm really fearful that if the distribution doesn't take us isn't doesn't goes expeditiously as it should that we are going to have record deaths under the auspices of the cold comfort of vaccine. I actually believe. I disagree with bill. Gates i actually think we're going to be able to get it if you want it sooner than you think. For bad reasons. I think a lot of people are going to decide to hold back for six or twelve months. Which is is the wrong as so this credential validation. it's interesting vaccine validation. The what do you think i have. I have. I am of mixed as you might imagine but i do think you do get validated for a lot of other things you know when you i have. I vaccinate my kids. You need to turn it in before you go to school before they go to school all kinds of vaccines and i'm okay with that I don't mind if it's done privately. Validation of the places that you could spread cove it. Yes i kind of four. That i'm kind of like. Yeah because it's it's done and other places all the time like you know herpes. Or if you have a a communicable disease that's communicated. I think this is a public health issue and i think it's quite different. If it can be done in a private way shared it with the right people. Sure sure we need a passport in your identity and your to travel abroad if you live in texas the republican governor. They're made law that the people have Youth have hp vaccine to go to certain public schools. All over america go to certain countries. You need vaccines court at mit. If you're a student you have to be tested every week or you can't get into the university buildings. This is also by the way a lot of the stories of people going to europe. They get totally tested and they get totally checked and everything else in here you can wander around and do whatever you want cough on people so i think it's we're just doing a disservice to our economy by doing by behaving like this and it just continues this weekend. We had all the proud boys. Here in dc coughing on everybody You know and beating people up which is just not just the worst people on the planet. I think No they're not the worst but there are among the worst And so. I think that people still will have this. They're gonna they're going to be proud. All the way to their graves is what they're going to be proud in their whatever. I don't even know what to call it. But i do think people should be. If you're a company you know people cannot come into the office unless they've been vaccinated or had proof of antibodies. I just think it's just safe. It's just public safety public. In terms of distribution. I talked about this. I don't understand. I think jeff basis and doug mcmillan and ups and fedex. I think all five of them should get together with joe biden and say our firms are workforce or at your disposal and not to have a fake remember. That fake press covers dig me. Millin was it that trump press conference. Who's coughing on everybody. The same one where. Nobody was wearing masks which was just the worst matches of all time. So i do think you're right. I hopefully they are. They have plan. I think the people involved with biden have done this before. So perhaps they will and you know how now doing like a little. Victory dance everywhere. Because he's going with by he's riding with biden And now is not in fear of being fired obviously So i think it'll be interesting to see how. Yeah you don't want them to over reach the same time given all the sensitivities now but i do think a really firm hand throughout this vaccination Clinical it's critical. All right scott. Let's go to a quick break. We come back. We'll talk roadblocks delaying. Its ipo and friend of pivot. Stephanie rule on her experience with kobe. Nineteen and the economy. There are tons of vpn providers out there and maybe even used a few bucks. If you listen to this show you know that. I think a lot about how to protect my privacy and security online. Yes you know that. It's incredibly important to be digitally responsible and express. Vpn is one of the best ways to step up your online security. What's great is that express. Vpn dozen lager data. Lots of really cheap or free. Vpn's make money by selling your data to add companies expressed vpn developed. A technology called trusted server. The makes it impossible for their servers to log any of your info express. Vpn is also super fast enabling you to stream hd quality videos with zero lag. Not like those other vpn's no no not slow your connection down or maker device sluggish dumpy sluggish plus. 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Comments is a is a thirty to forty five second recording that encourages people to share their thoughts and engage actual human beings not terrible anonymous common. The seamlessly replaces text based comments sections and encourages people. To sound off. On the things they're obsessing over not the things they hate it's passion versus animus yep is revolutionizing the way we interact online by introducing something revolutionary good old-fashioned civility to join the conversation with an audio or video comment head over to yaffa apt dot com. That's why apa app dot com to start posting yaps now scott. We're back roadblocks. The popular video gaming companies delaying its ipo until two thousand twenty. One after last week's market burst with airbnb endured ashes. Ipo's the company's co founder and chief executive david bazooka the saying that waiting provided quote an opportunity to improve specific process for employees shareholders and future investors. Both big and small roadblocks has exploded in popularity since the beginning of the pandemic especially among children aged thirty one point one million daily active users in the first nine months of two thousand twenty up eighty two percent from a year earlier. So is this a good move for the company says simply put mind blown. I mean a. When was the last time you heard of an ipo polling because the market was too strong. Yeah i get pulled because there were. They're not gonna get enough money. This is this is a company and this is first roadblocks in of all the ipo. I was excited about ios of all the. Ipo's i would have thought would have gone not only crazy on day one but actually sustained a one year game because let's re beyond us. Rich white people have figured out a way to capture all the gains right when google went public went public like two or three billion dollar market cap so that run up if it was going if if if google was around now the private investors and institutional investors would wait companies to take three years successful. Go public now. They take seven so sets of the institutional people can capture more of the upside. So what you have is i mean. Income inequality gone crazy. But if there was one stock i thought was undervalued. Even going into this crazy environment. It was rohbock some stats on roadblocks. The number of people daily active users as a percentage of their total monthly active users has come from eighteen to twenty four percent. they paid a third. they pay a third of the revenues out creators. No one creator has more than i think. Ten percent they have over fifty percent of kids under the age of sixteen. have been roadblocks. Last thirty days. I think rohbock arguably the most since plane the the delay. Why because this is only going to be a three billion dollars so if you look at airbnb was thirty billion raising three billion and everyone's like oh. They left so much money on the table. Yeah okay but only took ten percent of their flowed out meaning that the additional dilution they took was about five percent in other words they didn't float the entire thirty billion dollar valuation. The company floated three billion of it. So the fact that the stock doubled everyone cries. Well they left a ton of money on the table. Yeah okay they did. That's true but at the same time they got this huge branding event huge momentum real excitement it was on the front page so these things are now becoming sort of branding events now. If a stock doubles i the number of stocks had doubled in two thousand from their ipo in two thousand and nineteen to an average is one to three year this year. There's been eleven already. So we've never seen an ipo market like this so you do leave some money on the table now when you talk about roadblocks which is going out at evaluation around three billion a raising three or four hundred million daily literally setting up a scenario this could have gone out three or the sinking of pop three or four hundred percent on the first trade. This is a juggernaut. This is arguably the most influential company for people in this age of sixteen. Here's the thing this is why it's different than facebook. Which arguably the most influential company. It's not a menace right. They are spending a ton of time on safety and they're giving parents a certain level of confidence that okay. You're not going to radicalize my young boy or you're not gonna creek teen depression. Among my young girl they are. They've they are reviewing tens of millions of pieces of content. I went through there. s one. They mentioned the word safety sixteen times. They talk about parental mean. They are not only that. Talk being this company's just so fucking gangster. Seventy nine percent of their fulltime staffer engineers. They're more of a tech company than google. They're more of a tech company than spunk. Or or i mean. This is a true tech company and and they've said all right. Let's try and share. Let's try and share the wealth with our content creators and let's try and create a safe platform such that we act. Pretend we actually have kids or that. We give a good goddamn about other people's kids the revenues the market is like yourself from god. Well so you know what else. Just one more thing yes. Go ahead more thing. The market was missing. There saying oh it. Lost a bunch of money. People prepay for robots so it's negative working capital the free cash flow on this thing as gangster so if there was ever an appeal i wanted in on it was this thing and these cammisa. Well they basically pulled back and said maybe it's not three billion. Maybe it's ten billion right. So let's put this just shows how the narrative has totally taken control of the numbers. We've never seen an ipo market. Like this yeah. So are you worried. Are you worried about what the ipo market Uh with airbnb endured canaries everywhere. The problem is trying to time the market. The the problem is the economists. Basically perfectly depicted the meltdown of the dot bomb. The problem is they called it. A nine hundred ninety seven in the market went up and other sixty percent. It's just it's your greed glands versus your fear the fear how would you play it. Give me one quick tip. Get into any of these. I would try and get into them. But i would also diversify like crazy and head stuff. I just think you know in at penn obviously depends when you get in but let's be honest. There's just no getting around it. This is another point in the line that is income inequality because more and more of the gains are being captured by private by people whose money is managed by goldman investors. Vc's am by the time. The retail investor gets access. Airbnb has already worth more than the next five hospitality companies combined and i had a friend who's like i got in one hundred and sixty s like. Oh yeah careful. I didn't know it stays said. I don't know i don't do stock so i don't know it's very. It's a very worrisome. Time agree okay. Let's move on to our favorite friend of pivot stephanie. Rule was always. She's more than a friend of a friend of mine. Too and the scots Anyway stephanie let's talk about your shelby's lean. Msnbc anchor nbc senior business correspondent but she also is a a a survivor of. When would you want to call yourself. What is the Somebody recovering from covid. I would say so. Tell me about tell me about what happened. And i want to talk about You talked about the experience with covid on your show. How are you feeling first of all. Tell us how you think about the virus differently. Now i would say i know i don't have the virus in me anymore and i know that because i'm a lucky girl who has great great doctors who can tell me that But what. I have felt more than anything. Is this overwhelming sense of confusion. Not really knowing. How i'm doing you get past fourteen days. And if you still feel lousy. Can you be around. Anyone even understanding how warranty works being contagious. Works and i'll tell you my friend kept saying to me. Take this thing seriously. Because i think a lot of people even when they get a positive cova diagnosis there. Assuming this is a disaster. And i'm gonna need to go to a hospital just because you don't have to go to a hospital doesn't mean a you're not super contagious in be b doesn't mean you're sick. You're not sick. So while i don't have the virus in me i can tell you i have never been this exhausted and that has me worried. I don't know how long it's gonna take to sort of get back to myself. Yeah it's underscore underscores. We're not celebrities. Redo liani that we get to go into the hospital. Get the very latest because there are some treatments that work rather well now. They've sort of gotten very good at dealing with people who are not extraordinarily sick. But that's what amazes me about president trump than giuliani. I would have thought after trump had it he would have a empathy would have kicked in wedding and doesn't have that okay but if you're a normal person and see would've kicked in and he would have realized. Look this unbelievable care. I got look at these doctors. Look at all these answers. I got imagine what this is like for the rest of the world is let me tell you that is what overwhelmed me for the two weeks when i was sitting home but even if it wasn't empathy i don't understand on the other side how the president didn't have sheer brutal political instinct to say. Oh my god. This is impacting this entire country. What do i do now that i've experienced cova knowing what this is like. What do i do to say. I'm sorry america. I didn't realize what this was like time to really do something i don't understand. How after trump having this still stayed on the path the quasi denial and to me because he said i got over it. Suck it up sally. That's really i think. The because for him he and the white house get rapid cova tests every single time they walk into a room having no understanding of how it is to to even get a test. Then get your test results. And then when you do. And they're contradictory people like oh well. That wasn't that great doesn't have experienced any of that right. so what. What do you when you when you look at. How had it. And i'm glad you're feeling better but you're still going to have repercussions What do you how do people have sort of. Have this sort of magical answer a vaccine. It's always and i think we had michael mina on the other day and he's talked about the idea that it's as if you know london was getting bombed and they said the f. twenty two coming or you know what i mean and not doing anything else to protect from bombs essentially until we're waiting for the magical vaccine to kick in to me lee abject failure of our government which was crushed us from a health and economic perspective is testing. Just think about this the minute you technically is soon as you know you have exposure. You're supposed to quarantine. Most people cannot afford. Alaska people can't afford to florentine or they're unwilling to do it or they think they're isolating means you are around. No one for fourteen days. Aren't really doing that now. But if we can tell you. When i i was never officially contact traced by the government but when i went and made calls to contact trace myself. People don't want to take your call. We know from kovin. If you wash your hands wear a mask. Your socially distant. We're lowering the rescue. Get it but if you do get it. The answer is quarantine if they had done anything around testing where he should be at a place. Now where you have an app on your phone where you can see if you're positive or negative and that will that will change the decision you make whether or not walk out of the front of your house my entire floor. You're not allowed to like in in one. They had they had a cooperative system but it was quite strict. It's like they. They find you if you you did that. And they keep kept people in hotels they had a really great system of feeding them and keep them hotels and they had almost no and they stayed open. They would have liked to have gone to a hotel for two weeks or my husband. I wouldn't have liked it. But i absolutely would have gone the very least distress and pressure. You're under how complicated. It is to actually quarantine. I had the privilege that i have enough spaces and keeping keebler life to help me quarantine. Most people don't have that privilege and our government is basically saying do the right thing and we're giving you nothing to help you do that. Right right knee. If we would have sorted out testing we could have schools and businesses open. He couldn't. I could have gone into any store on any day when i had golden because i never had a fever. Mike kids quarantined for the amount of time. They didn't technically have to get my kids would have gone into three different schools and infected all three schools. They only got a test because my employer mainly an atom tests at the end of it which is amazing. So how do you think the vaccine will immediately affect the us economy. Let's get into the economy now that we've already done the damage of the unnecessary damaged by the way i mean. Listen things are going to open back up right. There's there's enormous pent up demand. It's not like we're not spending money every keep when you look at the stock market one of the reasons so many big public businesses are doing so well is. That's where we're spending money. Look at door dash mckay once the economy opens back up. We're not going to need door dash door. Nash had one of the most phenomenal. Ipo's out there. Why because we need to have our food delivered because we can't go into restaurants you're going to see a good portion of that reverse it's very sad because all of these big biz and remember door dash takes a cut from your favorite little local restaurant where you're ordering from while people are saying dr mark doing so well part of the fuel. That's pushing the stock market up. Is the life blood of american small business. It's dying at this moment right right now when you talk about that the impact. What do you see in the term the medium term and the long term for the economy. You know scott scott are stott often says like listen help people not businesses and i completely get that however we are going to lose we already have over one hundred thousand small businesses. That's not going to change. And if you think about so many of those jobs in sort of the hospitality industry. They're not coming back anytime soon. On a big level things. That i don't see coming back right away. Let's be honest corporate travel. Do you really think we're going to get right back to everybody. Flying to this meeting flying to that meeting rushing to every possible high. He realized you don't need to. I'm so glad. I always hated travelling. Ngo now i think people are going to travel but not nearly as much as they did. Because if you're if you run a corporation you may have figured out your business can survive with everywhere from home. But lots of businesses that huge loss of productivity and they're not thriving and a waste. They are going to keep costs down. They're not going to bring back. Lots of travel and lots of us have elected executives have a lot less support than we once did. And that's probably gonna stay for awhile. You're low level. People not get jobs back. Meanwhile new york is shutting speaking of people who are struggling with a new yorker shutting down indoor dining but we still don't have a new federal relief packages for small business and workers and individuals. How does this play out you. You know nancy. I don't even understand what's happening. It's just so confusing. I don't even understand it and you know you cover it. I do you know last week. I was interviewing bernie sanders and it ended up. I ended up infuriating him. He called me after the show told me how angry he was. While i thought we settled things. The bernie bruce moore has been attacking percents and i was just trying to make the argument to him. They've gotta find middle ground like kiara embiid blocking. He's been blocked in this. You and i can hate one another guts but we but if we work together every day we have to find some sort of middle ground because we need our company to make money or otherwise robina. Lose our jobs somehow in politics. They don't do that. I'm not to dog on the heroes. Act the beautiful gonna do is get congress to vote to pass it. You can put that in your pipe and smoke. It is nothing like you might say. I hate mitch. Mcconnell's guts the worst person on earth. Great super fantastic. But if you want to get something done if republicans or democrats want to get something done for all the people in the business in their states and it's not just blue states suffering red states suffering. Do you've gotta figure out how to play ball. How is it going to play ball. What was your issue with bernie sanders so we can get more bernie rose on you so so i had and i didn't. I honestly didn't mean to me. Sassy with him so he can take it that crusty coming on. Msnbc to talk about that. He's pushing this idea for twelve hundred bucks. I love that idea. I want all the support. Odyssey meals bring it on. But i said to him great. I understand what your plan is. He's obviously been talking about is going on. Msnbc tom great. So what does msnbc audience gonna do say. Amen hallelujah tim great. What republicans senators do you have on board to vote for this And then i said something that maybe was too sassy and i said You've won the hearts and minds of millions of american people and he has and i said you know you haven't had enormous success over the last thirty years. Getting a lot of your initiatives made into law. Do you need a change. Another lane and i wasn't saying you need to want something else but what i'm saying is you're gonna need to figure out a different way to get republicans to work with you. We're in crisis. He to make legislation debate. About what kind of healthcare you think. We should have a perfect world. People are dying. People are losing their homes. What are we gonna do right now. Together groups that hate each other to find a way to vote right. Yeah and that's and of course like the burns. Essentially he thought you were telling him he did nothing for years. I think that's what. Yes and the and the bernie swarm saying you are corporate hat. Lead wants to help people. I do want to help people. But i'm just saying i think we have to get brutally practical here to get something done in the business world. You don't get to be idealistic. That's all right. So what so speak in. Which i you know. Hard hearted stephanie rule. In the nice soft squishy bernie. He's such a guy. Anyway what do you. What do you imagine is going to happen in this short long-term you we've seen this this crazy Ipo's from airbnb. Jordache cassandra the stock market looks great. You can't tell whether it's thrilled. That trump lost or trump is taking credit for it. What do you what do you see. There's medium short term and the long term. What are the things people have to focus on this. I am very worried about political. Will here just think about people. You know kara in the spring. We're willing to lockdown. We're a lot more afraid of covid. Now the call numbers are worse than ever. People aren't nearly disciplined when it comes to lacking true very wealthy people are looking at the stock market. They're enjoying working from home. And they're basically figuring work arounds because if you are somebody who really is vulnerable you know you can get the giuliani or the trump treatment and you'll be okay and if you're somebody who's privileged but not at risk like they. Are you think you might get cold. Like i did get sick but not in a devastating way and so i worry that we're losing some much needed political. Will that maybe we'll see solved. Com com come january twentieth but between now and january twentieth lives livelihood homes. People are writing by the day shoplifting. Going up in the scratchy carrots pakistan for baby formula and diapers right right now. Scott has returned from wherever whence he came up from shoplifting. Probably or package steph. That's his other side job Scott we've been talking about stephanie's illness and whether the economy's going but she hasn't gotten into the biden administration. Why don't you start. Ask question or two since. I carrying your water since you whatever you were. I'm just curious for south seventy. I mean this even more than usual. It is wonderful to see you Am i obviously You and your family. And i love the work. You're doing So my question is just as you have. This is i would assume one of the bigger health scares you and your family have faced even if it's more of an existential one than actual threat your house because we're all fairly young and fairly healthy and i know there's an x factor here but Have you thought at all about how you think this will change the way that healthcare is delivered or the you will consume healthcare if we don't walk away from this as an urgent need to address health equity in this country than we have no leadership. Right i'm the luckiest girl in the world who has access to all sorts of support. And i could barely get a test and i really couldn't get test results if we don't look at this if we don't get to the back of this and say why is it that the poorest people in this country got sick and died. Why don't they have access to It's crazy when i would sit when i walked into. Nyu hospital on friday to get checked. I thought about all of these healthcare workers that forty people. I saw cleaning the building every doctor every nurse. And what are we doing for them. How are we honoring healthcare in this country. And i'm not saying the answer is medicare for all but the answer on the heels of this has to be. Is there a way to refocus. Have we look at healthcare in terms of people before insurance companies. And that's what we've got to do right. You can help even from an economic perspective. You get the kobe test in its for you. The vaccine in its free. We're not saving money. We are spending enormous amount. Only because we didn't figure out testing had we figured out accurate. Broad rapid testing many many people and businesses would be back at work and be more people alive today because lows of people have covert and. Don't have it because people like me. Who could who are kind of sick. Who could kind of go to work or lots of other people convince themselves. They don't have covid because they can't afford not to go to work. Those people are all super spreaders. My question is if msnbc and figure out a way to disperse your studio and rockefeller center to your cottage in new jersey. Should we be able to distribute that nyu urgent care. I don't know if it was the are just just that. Shouldn't they be able to disperse it to your home isn't there. isn't there. Just a huge opportunity to get off our heels and onto our toes with healthcare. And push it out if you will. There is a huge opportunity right in theory. I didn't need to ever go to adopt. Like i didn't write for my employer. Sent me a test at home. Which i put a fedex and i mailed at an dot the results. My employer did that. We could do it in a bigger way. We don't need to be necessarily people who aren't super sick but people who have something people we can be doing. Tele doc appointments. We can be getting these things not right. If you would have said to me a year ago we're going. Do tell doc appointments when my kids were sick. I know did that doctor to see my child child. No you don't and you can see a millions more people if you are banging it out. Bang bang bang bang over soon. Well the only thing is you know you talk about this. Everybody suddenly realizing it. You know. I just interviewed the secretary of state of georgia and He was like well. I got death threats. I'm like know abrahams getting for years. Like now you get it now you get it. Do you think it actually sticks with people. Once they get back to their comfort land. I think that's the best question right. It's like i remember. When i was in college and i spent a semester studying in kenya before i came home in writing the letters to my parents like i don't want any more material goods. I don't want you to send me a christmas present. Ever like nothing. All i wanna do is is is give to the poor. That's what i'm devoting my life to. And then i came home the week before christmas and then at christmas eve i was like hey on so what do you think you're going to get me for christmas tomorrow. I mean experiencing horrific things gives us perspective but if we are foolish enough to think oh my god. This was the wake up call. We needed to change the way we deliver medicine to change the way we cover is not but we have to figure out a way we collectively have experienced covid. How can we as a country us this perspective to come together and do some level of good and scott. I think you're coming from a place where you're saying from a business perspective happen. We deliver healthcare. Yeah there are enormous business opportunities before us. The question is arguable. Gonna pick them up and run with the prior probability biden. Let's talk biden. Then because he's going to be in charge and despite legislation he still has a lot of power. What what are you looking forward to. Given the selections he's made economically etc. I mean so. Far biden has chosen pretty noncontroversial experts. And that's what we need right. We need a steady group of experts in buying himself. Said i'm not going to be your radical leader. I'm going to be your bridge president. And i think now even more than ten months ago you see an enormous amount of american people say that's what we need. We need to get back on our feet again and one thing i do hope they really look at in their first hundred days beyond kovin. How many times of we said in the last four years trump is breaking norms. This is out of protocol. They shouldn't be doing this but technically they were allowed to. Lots and lots of things right so all the things that everybody set their hair on fire over the last four years that we said was breaking the norms and john corrupt. And they shouldn't be doing it. The trump would trump will be blowing his nose with subpoenas figure out what the lawless. If things are enclosed all those loopholes your first hundred days because guess what just because trump isn't president anymore. he may have just given every future potential autocrat. The playbook for here's how you do it right. A lot of trump appointees not a lot some trump appointees are still going to be in their jobs right. The you've got you've got a postmaster general. He's still going to be in his job in the natural law three weeks. You've got the trump administration of still appointing trump people to really important posts. If you think these guys are going away. They're not they're staying around. They're finding ways to cash in and if they did it in ways that were unethical then time to change the law. All three of us spent a lot of time after. Oa hearing people say and we said man there were some really bad actors in the banking industry. Like they should go to jail. None of them went to jail because technically they didn't do anything illegal so everybody should get their outrage noble back say what were the things that were the most degrees the most and changed the rules so they don't happen again. Stephanie cove on way go. I don't know what do you think about with that. I think i will say. I think i think we'll go right back to comfort zone. I think you're gonna. I'm gonna ask what getting christmas or america's going to ask after pretending cares. It's going to everything Bartenders cynical a to strange. I'm curious is sort of the game of thrones around media companies in terms of how they intersect with politics. No change in politics. You have the trump administration raising or trump raising a quarter of a billion dollars developed. Sort of looks like a shadow presidency but his typical front propaganda for machine for News corps has new threats. F- there's some notion that it wants trump show goes away and we have the pleasure of not thinking about the president. Maybe once every two weeks that a lot of a lot of networks will suffer. What how do you see. Things shifting in the kind of the game of thrones that is media or political media. Then scott let us short-term suffer and dig deep and do some homework and provide that our content if the best are is is reality tv diving into the freak show every day. If that's the only way we know how to get people to watch television. Maybe we don't deserve the big bucks. Maybe i don't deserve the big box. I'd like to think i don't get them but i'm saying yes. People love to tune into car crashes but we as a country have gotten dumber in weaker in our priorities. Let's find a way to be better. Scott your business priming you come from. So what are you going to cover the news everyday policy here's resemble. I'm not really covering trump lawsuits in a very big way in. Somebody called me. This weekend complained about that to me. Somebody who kind of rambles in the drama of it and for my silly simple girl perspective. Donald trump is a lame duck president. Last two months of the obama administration. Barack obama could barely get a big headline was paying attention. They were onto the next thing and for me. Everything i made my goal is how do i help. People get veteran smarter covering president trump sitting on his desk crying and whining. This isn't fair. i'm still the president is not my priority and if people are sick enough that they want to mail him a check to raise money for this nonsense fight to say he won. That's their own perogatives. But as long as that's not my tax dollars. I'm moving off. My question was more around. Serve you think. There's a dispersion of healthcare bypassing hospitals and doctors offices going to smart cameras and health handhelds if star wars is moving to disney plus. And you're living rooms if you think about really fantastic content. The covers news and politics. It feels like at some point. There's going to be a dispersion that it's either going to behind a paywall if let me ask it a different way if you were to pair with two fantastic Journalists or or newspeople and start and start a brand new and start a brand new company. What would that company look like. It will be carris. Got stephanie one and my boyfriend andrew. Ross sorkin throw a little throw. Throw a little sports in the mix. I don't know. I think i i don't know the answer to that I think that because we deliver so much content for so many hours We probably don't need to do that. I think if you just delivered the smartest best things in a more concise manner. He's more than you get more bang for your buck right. If i was an advertiser let what our is it of the. There's just so much out there that is not of high value. What if we offered less hours Just offered good provocative stuff. That's a great idea. Speaking of my last questions we gotta go stephanie. The whole thing hollywood. Dang going on with jason tyler. I did a beginner with them. Obviously there's been lots of stories about him. How do you look at. This is sort of explosion by hollywood. What do you mean about the about putting movies online. Listen from a personal perspective. I love it. I love being home. I love to be half my family right. This saturday night was the best saturday night. I'd had ages. I watch my favorite christmas movie. Love actually with my three kids. I didn't miss going to parties. I never really liked actually going to like that movie. Great progress because it's all about sleeping with the help but go ahead go like it's a bad thing literally like yes. Yes ban white man. You can sleep with the help but okay go ahead throw airports part. I watch prom. I watched probe. That's what i watch which was great content consuming. I think this is really important a lot of time at home. What a stephanie. Roll concept that. Because i i'm not somebody who has watches a lot of tv. Because i work. In scar queen's gambit obviously worshiped it. I watched the undoing loved it. But i have to say the end. It was a little bit predictable for me. And i was in love with donald sutherland ended in i watched industry. Have you watched industry knows that. You and i we lived. You know that show really hit on a lot of very very true things for those of us who grew up in an investment banking in sales and trading show. Hasn't gotten a lot of attention. I think it was amazing. There a little. I missed out to atai when i first got into banking the advice someone gave me was. Don't ever stay on after midnight. Don't drink and don't have sex with anybody at work. And i obviously married somebody who i worked with miss that third one but man that show has so much sex and drugs in it that that was scott's experience all three of those like check check check girls girls girls meets billions. It's really an investment banking analyst program in the nineties. Except it's in london. it's really. It's it's i think it's none of this and i behaved beautifully. Let me just say all right here. We go here. We go seven wives. Harem sultan sultan subaru here. Yeah right all right. We have to go see jeff. You weren't you. You'd be horrified by. Listen listen to me. Listen to me stephanie. We truly appreciate it. We want you to get better. Do not estimate the impact of this many of my friends have had it and there are repercussions from it that continue and take a nap right now. Take a nap love so stephanie. Roll all right scott. One more quick break. We'll be back for wins and fails. There've been plenty of challenges. We've had to face this year. 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You put an end to every single attack whether it's on computers mobile devices service or the cloud cyberrays and cyber attacks from end points to everywhere learn more at cyber reason dot com. Okay scott wins and fails are so many diverse. I do because. I think you agree with this. One the wall street journal op. Ed section says the dr jill biden. The first lady should drop her doctor title. That's your wendy. It's my fail uber. Murdoch is my feel like. I tackled him this weekend. I got so many likes which made me feel better. But i mean look. The wall street journal did this incredibly misogynistic thing and also just rude calling her kiddo and whatever and then this then then paul's you go who i know barely Was like oh cancel culture. No you should have schutte. Take paul and people said it was shitty. That was everyone using this cancel culture. Excuse like they didn't stop them from publishing it. Nobody like made them take it down. Nobody cancelled them. They just said your shitty. That's all like. I wanted to return to the word. Tansel culture stop saying it and just take responsibility for your crappy stories which was crappy. I'm sorry just a crappy story and it's just like just shitty shitty and then the same time. The new york post also owned by rupert murdoch than Sort of slut shamed a woman who was making money on onlyfans and also was an emt screw them screw that she can do whatever she wants. Sex shannon account. No oh god in any case. And then the rupert murdoch owned fox news. Let that whenever that idiot in the morning. That idiot does enter. they don't do not even interviews. Let president trump put because they're worried about losing people to newsmax which they should be spew all kinds of nonsense the false nonsense all over the place. Just rupert murdoch is literally the most dangerous you talked about mark zuckerberg we talk about it. Rupert murdoch has been the most dangerous media figure in history. At this moment. I think one of the thanks to this is a big story around the halls of nyu virtual halls right because the majority of my colleagues have a phd. They have a doctorate and they deserve. They spent three to five years beyond postgraduate. Were defending their thesis. Trying to come up with something original. They don't get paid a lot and they are kind of the best and brightest in their field for a moment the majority of nobel prize winners the reason they got the nobel prizes based on the work their doctoral work so these people deserve to be. They deserve the term. Dr the question is the context within which they actually use it. And i think that i think there was a point a valid point here that unfortunately got wallpapered over by the they acted like assholes trying to make what i thought was somewhat of a valid point. And it's the following did in academia And i'm going to be clear. I i. i'm not a doctor. i'm not a doctor. People oftentimes michael smerconish last week and me. Dr galleno acknowledged several graduate degree doctorate so they deserve the galloway rico. But here's the thing in the context of academia. We don't usually use that title because we want to distinguish ourselves from medical professionals more that we want to let them have that distinction. So i do think there's some truth that in the context that is madam elec vice president. The broader context. She probably shouldn't refer to herself as dr. We know she has a doctorate. I think that's wonderful. The way they went about it was absolutely asinine and just just reeked of misogyny. It's like they've said that to a man. I did so i think the point is a fair one in academia. We don't refer academics up. Don't refer to themselves nor do they ask people to call them. Dr we get it but this article was so ham handed it just. It just came across as shitty take. Should he take a thing called. Shimmy take in germany and this is one of them and that we want to find as i've done should he takes like come on this live. It love it. Be it anyway yours. By the way let me say my win. Once again is cobra kai getting a four season. I'm in. I didn't know that that's a great win. I love that show. there was one. I'm just in the first season. And i have to say there's one point when they're about to fight the two original people which they keep almost fighting all the time and they're getting ready to do it and then the wife comes out and it's like are you frigging kidding me. And then she goes make him breakfast and then the blonde the guy goes i could eat. Like just is so funny. It makes me laugh and laugh. And they're all and they played. reo speedwagon. so i'm just happy as a clam watching that show anyway go ahead. I'm glad they got the four season. I'm going to have ralph macho. My win fail is the vaccine and my fail is the lack of patriotism and science. Denial and selfishness people are demonstrated with their general stone around the vaccine. And if and when they'll take it if you think about the science of this vaccine The two of them are messenger are in a one of them actually puts traditional vaccine. Some of the a hamstrung diminished form of the virus. Indio the reality is that the number of people who've had adverse reactions to vaccines is just so tiny that almost any activity you can name presents bigger risk in addition to substance that they are actually introducing to your body is out of your body within a couple of weeks the notion of long term effects if you look at the history of act scenes the number of adverse reactions happen almost always immediately meaning that we have started out that risk because the more the majority of clinical trials have already extended beyond that time period. So you are talking about rhys. That are so tiny and when people even use the term risk. Unfortunately it's a word that encompasses all risk. It's not really fair. The risks are so marginally in addition. In addition i keep hearing from a lot of what i'll call my cohort that they're going to wait a while. We know what it's not about you This isn't about you. There is a web of death and disability waving across america. and if we don't get to hurt immunity sixty percent of americans could get this. That's approximately two hundred and fifty million people call the mortality rate one percent. That's two and a half million people. Three hundred thousand dollars or two point two million people who are really vulnerable and when you decide not to take those tiny wrists to such a you can no longer be a threat. You are no longer part of this hideous horrific wave. you are putting other people's lives at risk in may of nineteen forty in may of nineteen forty. The germans drove four hundred thousand dutch. French and british Soldiers to the beaches of dunkirk and the word went out. If we lose these four hundred people. They it's going to be a turkey shoot. They were stranded. The panther tanks for some reason didn't come in because healers supposedly wasn't woken up. Some general didn't want to wake hitler up if we had lost. Four hundred thousand people the war would have been over in who knows what this world would have look like and what did what are the british knew. What are the british do. They said they said these guys. These young men need to get off the beach and every sailboat fishing. Trawler anything that floated headed over to dunkirk and got those four hundred thousand young men off the beach and you know what we have two million people in this nation brothers and sisters on the beach right now. They will die if we don't get to hurt immunity. So this isn't fucking about you with so few of us in steph is so few of us have had any call to service. This is a small call but it is a call. It is a call and register that call. Yeah hake call get a vaccine. It's not about us you. It's about not being a fiber in his threat of death and look at the goddamn numbers here. The risks are anemic. Let's get two million of our fellow americans off the beach. Yeah thank you. I love your shut the fuck up shut the fuck up you people stop. I love it i love it you winston churchill that me just let me just clap for you and we will fight surrender. We will fight them. That's right when you go to wear their masks vaccines right all right. Well i'm gonna wait a little walk walkie that's right. Oh good. I like it. I like that. We agree on this first. Backley let me just say what would you do if an anti vaccine ugly. It's just so strange isn't it. It's people have gone so foxy reasonable. People are like well. How might it affect me. You know what your wait your writer and your science denier and you can't do math free anyway. i think. I want to really be anita. Also have your freedom to kill other tyranny. Charity keira to give them some tyranny. Also tirumala sue anyway scott. That's the show. I love your call to arms. Swinney mccall wounded from now as a reminder. We love the listener mail questions. And we're trying something new go to n. y. mag dot com slash pivot to submit your question for the podcast. The link is also in our show. Notes made us out. Scott today's show was produced by rebecca synonymous bernie injured dot engineered. This episode. eric. Anderson is pivots executive producer. Thanks also to hannah rosen. Andrew burrows make sure. Subscribe to the show on apple podcasts or via android. Check us out on spotify or every. Listen to podcasts. Via liked our show. Please recommend it to a friend. Thanks for listening to pivot from new york. Magazine vox media. We'll be back later this week for another breakdown of all things tech and business care. 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Episode 142: Service Is A Way Of Life

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1:55:37 hr | 9 months ago

Episode 142: Service Is A Way Of Life

"Are you ready for a talking bird news and indicated Melanie? We got a pillar men and women black come together and get it off. I would I would I would I would have welcomed to episode 142 and putting air podcast from Voyager Wednesday, Tell Michelle. How are we doing today? It's all good. I'm not even starting with you today. Okay, I got not really. I'm not I'm really not I'm not. Let's get you know getting every like, you know, George leave it alone know you're saying that was watching the video last week and she was like we tried gang up on it and I was like, she was low UV locally coming off the low-key. Did she got she got her fans though. Her fans be they were trying for an it's unfair but it's okay. It's okay no hate over here. But thank you all for joining us. Once again. I hope you checked out episode 141 what was called the wireless forget the name of the last episode. I don't know and then you'd be looking at me like that's not good Aja Bleu. Is it going to rain your mother like Los? Yeah. It was about trust. Yeah lost trust lost trust in way come on, Thursday 7 since that was Willie Rivers though. It was about trust but in a lack of trust and support lack of trust and support ye language. As a boy you see that on accident, huh? We don't have to touch on that today. I got some feedback on that you did I did what you get. I got a lot of good feedback. All right before we get into that. Yeah, we have a wage I guess in the building right take it away. Yeah, we all can play bass. Yeah. We especially guess in the building Mister Bryant swan. and the name You currently right now on the campaign Trail. He just showed luck to us district for Board of Education right nominee right before we get into June. Okay, let's get this feedback real quick. Cuz I want to see how it was one-sided real quick. We can't wait for afterwards because the whole way into it like we gotta get Brian's fee that I go into Iraq cuz I don't know if we could go back into it cuz I feel cuz cuz black women hit me up. What you saying girls. Hit me up David like men black men needs to give black women more support wage. See it's hard for me to have really hot. And I don't fall into that category don't like Ice Cube should have started with including black women as part of his plan. He didn't say he didn't so I felt like, you know, so about it but to say that means that it is automatically for black men that he only had black men same black people so that when you log, To him, you know, I think as a whole is just like a topic that we got this look at this. Look at this Maple like black women aren't really protective when I mean essentially that's what they're saying. Okay, I'm not really I said, not unfairly. I said not being protected. So if there are speaking up and they're saying like, you know, we do want something that specifically, you know, took notes that this is for black woman. Hijack written by black. All right, so we'll come back to that page to be like isolated instance. When you dealing with a black man, you felt like you unprotected but for the most part and my world where I see black men are protecting black women, maybe not as much as we all could be each other but it just seems like the narrative is that we don't do it at all. Yeah, the generalizations why I have a problem. I don't think that anybody is making a generalization. I think that that's how it feels it could it could be dead. It could feel that way and that's how and black women don't feel protected so we can feel that way on the other side too. I think there's two sides to every story Brian. What do you think about it? I think he talked about some some things that I go, you know deep roots that go way back way back slavery the black household just in general, you know, I think it's dead is almost has been has down. Unfortunately through the generations and no fault of us, you know, and so I take his day. That's a whole. I don't know we want to go home or does it started with slavery start? It was started with them, you know after that Master carceration, you know, Jim Crow. I mean you go through all the time periods where a black woman absolutely feel like a black men and not protecting them and from a lot of different things including ourselves, you know what I mean so dead. You you open up in a hole, whatever can of worms. I mean, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, but well, I mean so then I guess the question I guess is really a frame in which you tell you talking about a particular situation. Are you talking about relationship? You tell them about protecting like a physical protection you're talking about an emotional protection like well, I get all of the above. I think that you know women want to just feel like we are protected. I feel like you know, we want to feel like black men love us or choosing us. I think that that's our relationship perspective right? Because they're saying, you know black women are the least being married right? Like I think the Gap is like what you know for every like we're like one in ten or one in five or something like that. I mean that specific is all wrong. I've heard it but I think I'm making it up right now. So every like five white women that are married one black woman is Mary, right? So like in that Gap is like, you know dead. Getting larger every day. And so, you know, I mean, you know, you have black men asking like, you know, what do we have to offer more than our bodies you have but what are these other women have to offer more than a black woman? So I gave it starts there like in order for us to build our self-esteem in order us for us to you know, really have strong black families. Like what is it going to take or black men to recognize her say that you know, these are the women of choice especially the high-value. That's how I got into that today. But especially like the high-value black men, you know, so in the books that definition hahaha, I would I would consider every month. You're going to be a high-value black man, right So eventually Queen absolutely so I mean, I wouldn't socialize with anybody else that wasn't you know about Santa. How about you suck value black man. That's what I just want to know. So what I'm saying is that you know for the records, I'm not saying he's doing anything. I'm just saying that you know, black women want to be chosen by a high-value black, man. Okay, and yep. And I think that's important. I think that you know, like a lot of the conversations you'll hear a lot of the content that you'll see on social media, you know is you know, black men really down like women like, oh she's ghetto or you know, oh, they don't like her natural hair or oh, you know, she doesn't make enough money or oh, you know where I see these other classes, you know of women wage and I don't see them making as much money as a black with black women are I mean, I think the percentage is like we're like the most educated women in America right most degrees, you know, I don't think that were the highest price in terms of like how much would being paid or where we are in the job market, you know, so I mean obviously we're being marginalized there. But essentially you want to feel like you know, why do I have to bring something Financial to the table life? Why is it me, you know, what happened to women being stay-at-home moms. Like why isn't that an option for us? Right? Why is it that we have to you know have log All of these degrees and these careers and we have to bring so much Financial, you know stability to the table in order to be considered and even when we still bring that then we still have to then we have an attitude and we have this it's just like oh this long list of you know, everything that a black woman that's bad or you know that, you know, a man wouldn't find attractive we won't even get cuz I'm not going to take off. I got you this real quick, right because because you know, that's a battle we can't fight right now right off. So what we can do though is highlight in kind of focused on high-value. Let's start there. You mind let's go there cuz in the room, we have some high-value character traits fact, we got a Harvard and Maryland Alum, sir, right? What else do we have here? Oh cuz you know the chief minister. I was like yo, yo I do not have worked doing for Obama. You worked for his administration Bossier rolling his administration. I worked in a White House military office wage. Okay acquisition of service office. So I want to classify side of things. Okay, you know, we build a lot of lot of real cool stuff. Keep a president safe. All right. I mean I see you already know what you're going off what you got and currently can I say it, you know deputy director. All right deputy director of the US Department of Treasury, right? How do you like that role? Oh, I love it man. Department of Treasury is a great place to work. You know what I mean? Our economy fees everything, you know what I mean the power of the money in this country, you know, that's the game we play, you know what I mean? That's just and so often and the treasury really regulates all of that. So so being there definitely has been a great experience, but also just an ability to empower Young Folks about finance and yep. Stanley Financial intelligence. Okay. Well, you know what? I mean, it's just like we this game I mean you gotta know the rules of the game. If you don't know the rules, it's like playing Monopoly. Yeah, I mean, they'll play Checkers on a keyboard. Yeah, that's what it is. You know, I've lost some nights. Yeah. Yeah. Now you can't play with now with your sound people right? I'll tell you a monopoly. You don't want to play with a fact I played with a family member right Park Avenue is mine and I want my money. So so I remember I was in a lady I met her brother joint in his fiancee and his daughter is there but they just gave her to play money just to play around and you know, he's the patriarch so he starts before wage the days of rolled like he's already making negotiations. Like I look give me 500 right now when I get big enjoy this I'm like yo you going to take over the board or Bowie? Start investing go one time. Real business exactly crazy. But again, like I said, it's guys not tired. Like he's an Marine veteran we got drop a bomb. Hey like, yeah. All right, so I figure out like, how was that experience? Like I had a colleague of mine. That was a marine and he was like it was the best experience you had like this guy's in his forties that he's still running like 20 miles every day. Yeah. Are you that type of marine? Are you that guy? Yeah room. Are you biking or running all of it off get out? I did I did three hundred and seventy-five miles in the last forty days. another one the Marine Corps. Yeah, and I went right out right out of high school two days out of out of high school. I graduated salutatorian of my high school class and everybody thought I woke me for going in the Marine Corps, but I'm going to tell you what it really did. It really shows you your capacity. Now, you can either a bigger Your Capacity, you know, like a battery imagine you live your life and you think you're a hundred percent is 40% and somebody show you you got another 60% Yeah, but you can you can tap into right and what somebody shows you that you just never go back to thinking you're 40% of your hundred percent. You know what I mean? Wow, and that's when you live life like that and everything that you do. I'm checking how you doing. I don't really do anything different. I just I just know my capacity and the Marine Corps was just one of those things that helped awaken that you know what I mean. Wow. I'm trying to figure out a flip that to spread that to my son. You think you had a Honda but you really give I see a 60 that you don't see that I mean that's what happened. And then when I went to Iraq, you know, I mean it just I was I felt like I was well prepared. But of course, you know what I mean you go through experience and and God has a way of breaking you and building you back up, you know, even stronger and so yeah man created for wouldn't trade for anything why not always easy certainly went always pretty yeah, but to this day one of the best experiences of my girls juggle. Yeah, so I have I think we can't go any further without asking this very very important question achievements aside. Yeah. What was Brian Swann? Oh man dead. Well, brass Wala man, I'm the son of two giants man. I just stand on the shoulders of two women, you know, just to go back to movies just talk about my mother is education forty seven years in Prince George's County and she raised three of her sons who all six feet taller six feet tall. We used to go through a gallon of milk and two days on a school teacher salary life was real growing up and my grandmother was an entrepreneur. She had her own flower shop and shooting and shooting a Maryland. Okay from here for fifty years. And unfortunately, she was murdered in her flower shop when we were actually right before I went to Iraq, but the two of those women told me everything about service and Entrepreneurship and that's off of my life with those who principles. Okay, the thing I do even ties to entrepreneur things and business. I've done Investments. I've done properties you mean you name it in service, you know service our country song. And President Obama I'm serving my community my family my church. Everything is tied to those who prints but those two those two ladies instilled in us and he also I say who I am and I wanna Mary McDonnell like that's just precious. That's just who I am, you know, I was going to ask you why are you running for this position question answers ladies and gentlemen? Yeah, bring me the 60 like right there. All right, so I have this question wrong because I like to humanize people. You know what I'm saying? Marine got all these achievements and papers and everybody is going to like he's literate. He's learned all this other stuff, but you're from Prince George's County and you went to Largo High School. Yeah my blood, right? So this is a test right now. Oh, no need to stand up DMV stand up. Ya Down Did you listen to go go music? Absolutely. Hey, what was your favorite band? This is a test show my first band ever went to twelve years old. No, peace group wage wage or less. Yeah. See those three. I I I had a lot of a lot of first cousins older cousins my older brother, you know, they was all in the asses. You know, ye off. Yeah, but man for me man those fees groomsman was but the thing that had me hooked like no feet listening to hip-hop and so I was probably in eleventh grade. Yeah. Yeah. We just all that's what we grew up on. Well you're in a band now I was never but I was always banging on the table in the school in the classroom freaking out smoke off. Oh, yeah, who knows? Yeah, so it's not on you to change your life now. All right, you said hip hop and queens as in the bill definitely say you ain't started listening to use eleventh grade in high school. Now going to take you back to a conversation. They probably ruin people's lives but dominated the culture for maybe like five good years. Yeah, who's your top 500 telephone and Hip-Hop top high top five hip hop artist. I gotta say Jay-Z better be and broke no hesitation or the pressure for young family. Okay. So the only only rap I got my playlist got his own playlist Jay-Z. Okay, so you you can't you can't talk about hip hop and not mentioned Jay-Z at this point wage. Yeah, I mean J. Did you gotta have biggie? Yeah, I got it. Lyrically. You absolutely gotta have pop, you know to me. I just think like you know what he says in his office is just you know from his whole life. It's just so those those are saying top three and then after that man, it's a bunch of people that's all grouped together close, but those three for me that's enough for you that's enough for me. You can find anything and everything in those three no matter your mood what you're going through where you at what you're trying to you know, if you change a channel you try ride you try, you know, right away with your girl. You know what I mean, or you you trying to work out you need to get amped up like, you know district for Thursday through your guys know got your guy right here District School Board of Education PG County public school's listen, this is a guy right here. He's such an ass oil change. Take it to the Mountaintop to oh, yeah, what's showing your back? You probably was carrying. How many pounds does a gear? Yeah, I used to carry 7580. That's a Lisa eighth-grader wage, but they always eighth grader right? Are you graded? Oh, well, let me think about this now. We're in 2020. It's not the same of the boss baby sixth grade. You guys think you guys agree? Nevertheless district for this is a guy I do have one question, right? This is a personal question for me personally, but like a question. I really want to know. All right, if you were elected today. Yep, what you will be November 3rd. Y'all go out and vote and you can only accomplish one thing off your tenure one thing one thing. Yeah, what would it be? Universal Pre-K three and four for all students no matter where they live anywhere in Prince George's County. Why wage because oh data shows that so much learning happens in those first two years. It's the one reason at all a lot about students. Especially young kids on free and reduced lunch. So I'll know income. You know what I mean? They come into kindergarten already a year behind and never catch up and just and and so it just bleeds into everything else off and on today is because it's not because they can't do it just because before they came to kindergarten they may not have been in the structure academic type. Yeah, she took a situation and so they they they they just learn the alphabet at kindergarten while other kids coming already reading books, you know what I mean? And that learning really starts at like wage. To yeah, you know what? I mean? So if you can get everybody in and some type of Pre-K three Pre-K floor in a dramatically change the academic gap for the academic divide that we have faith in our community, especially for a free and reduced lunch, which is 63% of Prince George's County. You know what I mean? Talk about a lot a lot of kids down and and would that would that just that one change and would take time to see that, you know come to full result cuz yeah, he's got an inch that you know get to high school and got the college and see where that generation would be. Oh man that right. There will be everything. I mean, we got a lot of issues to it. But the end of the day the school system's about educating our people off and so I mean there's a lot of other things that go to them, but if I if I had to say, you know go again me one thing give me the money give me anything. I need to get this one thing done, you know as universal three dead. Prepaid three Pre-K full with with small classroom size not forty kids one. Yeah, you know I'm talking about know twelve kids one teacher may be a a wage and that's it and let them do their thing and I'm telling you like it has dramatically changed what we see in in that generation as they in every generation after it off now legrant you another wish you got you got you got you got the first one you got pk-3 got peek a full scenario everybody qualify for that good. Now, what would you do with that second wish? Oh man. I replace all the schools in Prince George's County. Yes, average age of our school system buildings is over 50 years old, right? We got home. We got middle schools. Eighty years old. That means there's a kid there right now whose Grandma yeah went through that same school and that school was built the last thirty years. And so you thought about just think about the paint the AC systems and we got pandemic going and kids kids won't go into buildings that are just really not prepared to handle what we bout to go through when we go back to school found that has a lot to do with the investment that's happened. What a lack of investment rather in Prince George's County infrastructure 55% of of our Revenue comes to State. You know what I mean? The state is actually responsible by law for education, but the formulas they use this out about who gets the capital infrastructure wage. Doesn't really take into effect population growth that we got 63% of our population is free and reduced lunch and and and I built just open it just did with this investment is just hasn't been done. So when you walk into the building, right, this is just emotional psyche that that happens to a child to a parent and most impactful too are teachers. Like would you want to go somewhere and work and you walk in you not spill safe in the parking lot because the lights really don't work or they use those old lights that don't really light up the whole part of their life and like walk down a hallway and you know, oh you walk in your classroom and you open the door, you know, you're going to find a friend and they're sitting there. Oh you working today? Hi, I'm going to leave because life is, you know res I'm not saying all our schools are like that. We do got some new schools, but the average age of our schools. I'm across Prince George County is over 50 years old and if the average age is at then, you know, yep. Got a good half that you know, you're going to have something below that and some above that right? You know what I mean in that that right there would change how look at education I'm saying I'm saying how people show me when they walk in the building that attitude they had when they come in the classroom and how proud they are me just think about you think about the university you went to I matter and you go to University campus is beautiful. Awesome to me every time every time you go in and you just feel like doing this they build another building. Yo, Maryland don't even like to say right and I thought it was know when I went there. Yeah. Oh, that's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. And then you wonder why you know, we shall Robert Smith, right? So it is a man I'm name, but you wonder why it don't get me wrong, but got a lot of alumni of that and go back but we don't have a lot of people to go back to the to the extent that we in the richest black County or minority, you know, black brown Latino package. In the country, but when you look at how many people give back and spend time back and invest back they I think the image they got name mind about what they high school and what they public education looked like, you know what I mean? It's not something that you just say. Oh, yeah definitely want to go back and like see my school. You know what I mean? It's just it's is that image man? Another death just affects the whole community and so many ways have a very important question. You just brought it up. I'm a PG County public guy. I went to High Point High School, you know, Sam Black Lodge, you know in Lake Park McCormick, it's Megan go in here we go park down. Okay, you know what I'm saying? I Jersey City stand-up, but the question I had is when you said the investment with my question now is a 55% of the investment Financial investment come from the state where the 45 coming from 45. Most of it comes from the County Council. So from mid County Dodge some comes from the federal government, but mostly from the state and County Council. All right now as let's say you as a parent of Prince George's County public school children, or do I guess the question I'm trying to get to is do does do parents need to start investing do the people the citizen tree. Do we need to start investing in the school? Are we able to invest in these schools financially in a way to kind of remediate some of these Financial issues we are and we got institutions to help out. Okay, some of the obviously Becket Church Street Temple shut down to my some some place of worship. I'm also First Baptist Church of clean-up. Okay, they do big things for Prince George's family. We got some major Partners to help step in off bridge the gap but it's you know, you know the school system spends two point 1 billion dollars every year. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, you're just mad Prince George's County Springs two point 1 billion dollars every year second largest in the state, right? And so, you know the movie that needle you know what I mean, you you need something like serious serious investment in a major way and we got the second largest system. We got a hundred and thirty-six thousand students 22,000 employees. Like we are one of the biggest employers wage. In the state of Maryland, you know what? I mean? It's an institution. You know what I mean? This is not people don't sometimes understand that cuz you say Prince George's County Public Schools. And you just picture a school near my name. You don't see the whole machine and everything that goes into you know, and and all it takes which makes it extremely hard to navigate as a parent and you trying to get the best for your child wage, which is one reason why I'm running, you know, because you gotta you gotta understand the Strategic and what's going on, but also the Tactical okay, you gotta understand the day-to-day that what folks are experiencing on the ground also understand how to move a big shipment in the Marine Corps. You got, you know, one of those big carriers on the on the water and just carrying all these ships and Marines and sailors and ammunition if you want to make a a shop tell you can't turn it like like a right turn like you didn't a cop you got to turn that during like a narc. Yeah. Yeah, right and you gotta know you're doing that like 15 miles ago. Yep. Regal start turning at 4 knots. Yeah. Yeah. Well coordinated. Yeah. Yeah, that's the same thing with the with the school system. So we definitely got organizations that support but honestly, we don't we the money is the money we pay in the taxes and we got some of the highest taxes and state so it's really not a tax is right cuz I feel like Montgomery County their housing prices are higher but our taxes are way higher right now really puts us at a disadvantage because how do they have a better school than we do see this. This is the problem, right? So one of them in the formula the state use they use on property values right property taxes and that money that's generated from your property tax on clothes into the school system in some MPG or Montgomery. Okay. I got it. So when you have accounted it got a lot of have value properties right off. They pay a lot more money and property taxes, right and so one would think that that County would get more money because they contributed more money right away. But when you got other counties that have low property value, you got a lot of Apartments got a lot of people renting don't pay property tax and you got a higher population in those areas cuz they were very dense very urban areas, right? So you got more kids to actually educate well in the high property value areas, you got less intense cuz I so you got more money over here. Let's chase less money over here more kids guess where the money been going way over here, right because they cuz they pay him more money, right? And so it didn't get sent to you know, what's your thoughts taxes right people over here paying more taxes. Well, okay two more taxes. I want to make sure my schools in Montgomery County, Ohio County or whatever got the best wishes that because we pay see the pilots. Yep. You see what I see. What's happening? How do you say you have any over here? Like listen, man? We got some homes. We look like that to write got some break, but the large majority of the 63% of that's why I say that 63 wage a free reduced lunch. Yeah right there right more than half my student population which means half of our parents or make it under a certain income that they could they wouldn't even be in that bracket that that we talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So so that's where the money is just the investment is we gotta change the way the formula is this is why you off blueprint blueprint the curling commission the blueprint bill that was passed by the state senate, but unfortunately, which bipartisan wage know but was vetoed by Governor. I have to change that right, but he vetoed it. Why did he say why he said that. Don't you don't get off? Not doing that to you. Yeah, November 3rd remember for if you going to answer that, I remember third we good but this this is my cell phones. Like we got we gotta understand these things and we need like we just need leaders that are engaged and get and make sure that the information is Flowing so that when we selected elected officials and we Advocate and we not just we not just black lives matter. I'm near 100 but at the end of the day people need to see changes effected in their lives, right and that's and you gotta you gotta understand that education is is like the fact that you know what I mean like that bridge is everything just drugs you name it homelessness the school-to-prison pipeline. I think we I can go off or like topic to topic educated or we can approve and that that education is broke, but we could certainly be doing better, you know, so so some of the things that you set your advocate for dead. And I'm going to ask you to expand on any one of these things or any point that I don't mention. You said smaller class size of new schools. Yeah. I already talked about that the bus system made me ask you gotta you gotta tell me about this bus system. You said improving the school bus system. Yeah, you're also have the kit for accountable and effective an effective funding. Yeah. Yeah execution. Yeah, you got explained that that was a lot of big words for me and I just need to know what exactly you're doing me. I feel like Kim Kardashian from the David Letterman when he just said a whole bunch of where he was like, I don't understand. You said a competitive teacher pay I understand that now let me ask you before I even finish. Do you think that if teachers got paid more that we would get better teachers in wage any school system? I think I think that's I think it would be a temporary increase. I mean a temporary result, but we would need to do some other things too. It's one thing to attract. Yeah. Yep. Recruitment anybody working any company any way would tell you it's one thing to attract a person doesn't seem to retain gotta gotta gotta so yeah, you can you can you can attract them by giving them very competitive pay so that they're looking at us before they go to Montgomery County or or private school or whatever. Yeah their environment you keep them in right? Yeah. That's what's going to retain them. Okay, right there benefits that you give them so they you know, if they may have an incident or the family they need health insurance and how those been that's what's going to retain them. Right because you gotta understand that they have lives too. They have families too. Yeah, like anybody else and if you know and and so if you got a job to page you well, that's great. You'll take it but once you get there and you like yo, I can only do this for so I can't say yeah. This is my big save you have to meet. Yeah. I've been off staying my co-workers. They turn nasty. I can't stand my boss or you'll have five minutes toxic. Yeah, right. Yay. I got a commute and and I gotta go through all this just to and I'm stressed out birth. Even start work. Yeah, right. And so I think the competitive pay is dead, but it's also about creating a probe the the retaining environment that's conducive to tujhe retain the best talent that we can fly babies. You know what I mean? Like I just that one for me it really hits home because I remember all the days and my mother cuz she just retired forty seven years. In fact is County Public Schools is a teacher and a principal and some of these schools, you know at night time. They just don't look very safe. I remember me and my brothers just have to just go up to the school and just check on Mom cuz she would be working papers. Yeah in the school already. You won't go up to the school and you just like go anybody can just eat just come up in here. Yeah, you know as as three three sons of a single mother. That's just like just always been on the Forefront of so, I've been when I when I'm doing certain things and thinking about I'm thinking about the visions that I had as my mother was also an educator and the things home. So she was doing that still happening exactly today, you know what I mean? So now I agree I had that question. I had that question. Yeah. So for me, it's real real like like a lot of people talk about it, but they they don't offer that it's different when it's your mom. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's how I treated. I look at every teacher like my mom every principal like my mom and that's and that's why I do what I do. Are you said increased mental health support? I found that very profound. I haven't heard anybody say that yeah, but when you say that about PG County, maybe think what was it? That was it that for you coming through coming or is it just being the subject of an educator and seeing what she had to go through that made you say that there's a mental health issues that we need to also address. I mean I've had so many teachers pouring to me. That was awful. I think like therapist to me. I mean just going through different things going through school. It wasn't like I say, it wasn't always pretty so we certainly had trauma, you know what I mean and our family and I think birth Kids are going through trauma and they and they replace or they will yeah. Yeah, and right exactly and and for a lot of kids and this is the problem I got with the pandemic right now, which we got hurry up. It's like they say this place is our school. Yeah, that's what length was just saying. We safest place literally had that and now they home unfortunately there's some homes that's just I just be scared shouldn't be in Burke and they gotta pay their you know, abusive families and you know drugs and you know, the list goes on black of resources among them and and then and then these kids come to school and they act out they get labeled as a troublemaker and start this process that eventually, you know, basic creates the what they call the the school-to-prison pipeline, right? Yeah, right and instead of using these these lack of discipline policies, and we need to we started changing over to have restorative practices of thing like that, but but it needs to go deeper than that high school calendar. And I school size psychologists have an unbelievable ratio like one school psychologist to like seven hundred kids. How do you like even start work? Like you can't even like you're so busy probably all day. Just getting all the paperwork done. Right? Like you don't really ever get the building and it's just and again it goes back to the the pay and retention how you keep those professions that are so often saw that they grabbed by private and Grandpa universities and Grandpa the the other counties that you know, got more resources and got a smaller population age. So they can't they can offer more services, right? And so it just it just Builds on itself because kind of like introducing them to a a new individual that does not have time for them. Exactly exactly in the children. Don't get the build trust. I mean just I mean in the families don't don't get me wrong there a lot of a lot of meet them all the time, you know doing the best they can but they don't have the resources page. Chester so they're right. I mean, yeah, I mean they they live in they don't worry about how you tonight. Yeah, but but and so so that's why I'm mental health is one of those things that I think we can fix right now because you know, it's not a huge price tag, like replacing all the schools or doing Universal Pre-K 3 or Pre-K. What do I have some impact on individuals who get go down this path really not no fault of their own because they have mental issues that should have been helped with them early on in childbirth. And then before they got to a place where they doing some really, you know, maybe not so smart things and so that's why mental health actually support as my as my highest budget priority for supper club. Just because I feel like it's something that and this goes back to the financial education. You know, we got money. I'm in a system in a school system that that I think we can we can divert that way when we don't use itself to say for example, and we post to replace a HVAC system in high school. And we think it's going to cost Thirty million dollars. I don't want to call twenty million. Yeah, we do with the 10th how fast do we move at 10 somewhere else? Right you same thing. We just carried over to the next year and say, oh, we're gonna use something actually not we got to make things right now. You got any free money that fall out so you were supposed to hire a thousand teachers, but you only not hired a hundred for the salaries for those other hundred that money needs to be going somewhere ASAP right right now about some of our financial institution is what I got a lot of experience and like how to do that how to track that how to make sure that's happened because you know first I mean that's not a federal government doing a while. We not doing it and Prince Royce Camp. You know what I mean? Sure one other point that you are advocate for is you said Career and Technical education, which I log Think is dope and I think it's great. Dr. Umar Johnson regardless of all his Shenanigans and so forth. One of the things he talked about was when they removed shot and home Mac and all these different types of disciplines of courses from schools. One of the things that happen is the kid who wasn't I'm saying not everything everybody's life for college, right? Absolutely. There's a lot of skills that were removed from those individuals to be able to be entrepreneurs to be able to go out and get become an electrician and things of that nature. When you said Career and Technical education out of the type of things that you think about what you're thinking about more. So the IT jobs that we have available today. I think all of the books. Okay, I think I think there's so many paths. Now. There's so much information out there, you know wage universities, you know want to say the whole Universal University system is is companies crumbling. I mean just a Roman mja honestly think like looking in twenty twenty years. Fifty years from now universities won't be what we see today. You know, I think we need those Career Technical Fields the special trait tradecraft. Yeah, ignition carbon to work masonry where Barbara's yeah, let's goes on. But we also got these other ones that are coming up, you know Healthcare professionals cybersecurity computer program and all these things that you you you you need some education, but you don't need four years of spending $20,000 a year to pay for all this stuff. You ain't going to use writing when we're honestly most employers going to teach you they what they want you to learn. Anyway, they need to know that you can learn and that you you know, the social skills. That great is disrespect is that you get the four-year degree then they tell you we know, we appreciate the certification that you can only take so long. 18 months. Yeah, exactly. You could study it on your own for six months and get it. Yeah. Yeah, you know what I'm saying? Exactly and it's like you're always I need four years two years now. It's just the way to qualify. Yeah. Yeah, exactly and it's and it's a way you know, this is my opinion is this is a way to keep you in the system, right? Yeah, you like financial debt off you dependent on accepting something that you may not have accepted otherwise meaning a career job because you you are now inclined to pay this debt off. I think capitalism can be the next slavery. If your not financially smart background. If you don't if you don't have Financial intelligence not teach us all the time and I give away for free my twin and I thought we we've been we've had a lot of not a lot of successful. We've been we've been we've been able to to do well and only modest at one thing I do wrong. All the time is I go back to University of Maryland. Go back to Bowie State University. Guess my mother went to college yet and we teach her financial wealth seminars some stuff for my Facebook and she gave you can see and we give it all to you. Like this is all the stuff you need. No, we won't show up your learning curve don't give you the cliff notes. That's just got you all gotta go through life trying to figure it out cuz we gotta say everybody don't have pets wage. Like we may have or or quick studies, you know what I mean, but they try to they try to open their mind and understand how they can leverage the money. They do make sure they don't be a slave to the job. You know what I mean? And then and the situation like like this pandemic you are slated job within the job that gives you and what's you know what I mean? They were you do. Yeah. You got me down. You gotta have a plan be writing a plan and plan C. And then once your plan B is making more money than your plan 8 you do whatever you want, you know what I mean? And so it's a mindset shift that I think we gotta wage. I make sure not only a we doing but we we're taking Generations around us to live our whole people up. Its Monopoly. We can't we gotta stop playing checkers on the Monopoly pool since you dropped that Jim go ahead and really drop off to let him give him something that you that you feel like. It's very presentations know on a financial literacy level just throw something out there right now just so they didn't know that Israel. Oh man, if you if you never really reached airport at like wage you to pull that like if you if you don't understand that there's good debt and bad debt. You know what I mean? I mean Jay-Z said a better life and is what's that song? Oh man, it's name is Jay-Z song Man 3. Come on. Just give me the lyrics song you talk about the painting if it's like I bought this painting for a million. Yeah. It was worth to ya in a couple of years is worth eight. You know, I'm trying to give you and you know the song right if you ain't never heard back. goes back to financial literacy is like it's like it's like breathing. I mean like the the next most important thing to you next to oxygen off water. As money right like like like if you got oxygen you got water, right? You need money one to get more water right and anything else, right? And and I just think you gotta understand it and too many times we get into this we get into this thing where you know, we try to keep up with the Joneses and I get you know, we like kick things. You know what I mean? That's that's how people you know kings and queens I get that, you know what I mean? But unfortunately we've been taken from from where from where the kings and queens are we've been putting this system and I just think folks just gotta gotta wake up understand that you gotta invest. So this is what I tell folks, you know, it's the it's the 60-30-10 room, right? I think you got 10% you give to charity you give your church, whatever you do, right? I just think that's just it keeps your peace. You know what I mean? You invest 30% of your income. I don't care what you invest in how long Just sturdy percent off the top pay yourself. First pay your future first, right? The worst thing you can do is leave that for your family for the Next Generation. You know what I mean? And in the sixties live off presenting your income. Yes, you're on the main if you can't if you can't afford any 60% of your income then what you trying to do you try to live rich, but you're going to die broke. Yeah. I mean you should be home live in modest and diet rich because that's that's how Generations I mean. That's I mean if you look at any any other race, I mean look at the Jews Like wage, but if you really study them like the perk that person is making money for five generations later like that person's income. No matter what they do. They they said they kids are set they grown kids are set you saying I'm saying and that's not because that person was like flood like some way down and way way back when somebody was like we invest I'm investing. You know what I mean? I'm there, but modest wage. You know what? I mean? I'll need yeah, I like nice things that have a good time and spend it with fellowship and and experiencing life. Yeah, but you know what? I mean? I don't need three Penny of Passage seems like I mean more people got more money and they closet and they got any account anywhere, right? You know what I mean? Like that's just real talk what you look at the money in the account and there's no reason to go fill out the cloud. That's right. That's right. You know what I mean? So I tell people all the time like you should be like you should be preparing for your grandkids, right and then when you so if if you if you just start with that package you say right now, I gotta be straight. I got to take care of my kids and makes them straight and I got to pay for my grandkids and my conversation with my child that you gotta pay for your grandkids and say listen song you going to be straight and you'll K is going to be straight. Yeah, so don't even worry about that. I want you gotta work on the grandkids or however many grandkids you they need to be straight and I'm a girl. I mean if they want to go to school no matter what profession they straight and so you tell your kids that the same conversation and that's how you start it and had that conversation when they're young. I just had that same conversation with my son about three weeks ago when hitting his responsibility with the company. Yeah, like you like we're doing this for you and your kids. Yeah. Now where you going to take it? That's right. That's right. And so long as I'm as some of those principles that I think it's a mindset, you know what I mean? It's said that you gotta you gotta you gotta you know, you gotta talk about you gotta walk and in the most money is you gotta surround yourself with the right people that think that right. Yeah because we are very adaptive creatures like whatever environment you in you that what you want. I don't care whether you like it or not. Yeah, you can have the best person you can be the best person right but you get around the wrong people for long enough. You're going to start doing some of the wrong things absolutely don't really want to do it, right? You know what I mean? Yeah. Yep. You know parents don't don't hang around with them. You know what I mean? Because they they knew they they seen it. There's no way you can stay around him and not be involved in whatever it is. You know what I'm saying? No to order five people you hang around and if you decide most successful person of death, I need a funny average. Did you need a new song? I always tell people in my class and my workshop take the young people you you you hang around right and think about the average success of those people, right? Whatever that looks like. If you feel like you don't most then you're above the average then your friends are pulling you down under so I'm not saying you don't hang out with them you love them. But I'm saying the people that you call a with and you think with you know what I mean like those people right you want those you want to be in the middle you want to be the average so you got a couple people above you that's pulling you and you got a couple of people below you that you put Elena got you saying I'm saying you can't be at the bottom of the pack because it's going to be two bath. You go and look at those for other people but like I can't get to them. Yeah, right they on a whole nother level right? It's going you gotta be in the middle of the pack because you gotta have that balance in life. You gotta have that balance with your stretching it one way home stretch it another way of saying and that's how you move forward. You know what I mean? But that's how you if financial literacy and finance all that ties and the government, you know, how you decide you get business deals as how you network. This is how you do joint ventures. This is how you can I can go on and on for stories ladies and gentlemen, just get your guy boarded a nominee. Well actually off your guy. Yes. They just speechless come on baby. Hey speechless speechless cuz I mean, this is a known him for so many years. Yeah, like I mean, he's one of my greatest mentors like I taught me so much, you know, I mean what can I say, but just be enamored with them for so long and everything that he's saying log Today is what he's taught me and what he's instilled in me through all of these years and I'm so proud to just you know know him and to be a product of everything that he's talking about. Like I remember when we first started trading in a member. What are you doing? Like, I mean if you got money and he just gives back to everyone who knows him. I mean, I don't know what else to say about him. You know, I was so proud. I mean, I mean, I know that he's always going to be successful in everything he does and you know, just being a part of you know, just his life for this long has just been like a long journey for all of us and so it's just been so dope. It's one of those things where it brings both of those two things. I love so much those two pillars for me service and Entrepreneurship the government must reject. That's where I thrive. You know what I mean when I can like be creative and and kind of use that entrepreneurial skill to create and to and to build on your own into dead. But also serve at the same time and bring people with you advise people. Yes, I mean, he's been an adviser because of just you just need to and I've had that in my life too. I got some mental mental that you know, it's great when you make six figures until you meet somebody to make six figures a month and then it's great to makes absolutely. Yep. And so you meet somebody who make a million a month but I mean like like that is homeless me like I remember I remember I remember when I wasn't at six figures and I was like I could just get it then I got there and I was like wage word like this, right and it is like that got. Oh, yeah, and I'm like, yeah, they're saying and it keeps you humble and that's definitely got you got you gotta stay humble and you got some country. Yep, you know, I mean and and make your way, you know what I mean? So I got something I wanna throw out there. Yeah. I always say a child that's only educated as schools and Educators wage. Oh, thanks. So now we got these kids only being educated at home when they go back to school. How far behind do you feel like our kids were because it's it's all across the board K through twelve we go out. The academic. The academic Gap is is is dramatically increased because we also have a digital divide it in terms of is you know, as you know, like sometimes don't have last fiber internet something you don't have or they have computer don't have computers. Yeah, when the computers are really outdated and type of things one thing that we did when we had the pandemic when I'm glad my colleagues on the board of education all agreed to do this was to really help close that digital divide for Prince George's County. And so first thing we did was we put an immediate order to buy enough Chromebooks and laptops for every student we have in Prince George's County. Some people thought that we're never thought the Prince George's khong We getting yeah, they say take us three to five years and we got it done in three weeks, you know, so this is the type of thing that we you know, when you got folks that that really a focus on that education understand the numbers wage, but understand what parents are going through as a parent myself. Yeah, but you would get stuff done and that's not only one thing right because you just cuz you got laptop people got internet with the point. Right? Right, right. So then we got Wi-Fi and and to deal with Comcast so that we could we provide how he functions to pay for high-speed internet like in your home like regular house be in there for families offer free and reduced lunch. So that sixty 63% I'm talking about Hobby don't have high speed in that date has to be internet. It's like on the parents follow. Don't right. Well now they can get internet and found a home. So when we started this we started school year any family needed internet got it within like the first two weeks or so every child had wage. Shooter to use and then we work through the Kinks You know a lobster everything's not going to happen perfectly but the large majority like the 97% or whatever. The number was had internet had didn't have any other home already. They can get internet in every every child. Well wonder what we were wondering why system right which is huge. That's it for Prince George's County actually off this other counties in Maryland have been to one to one school, but it's different when you got a hundred and thirty six thousand students to provide lab. Enemy. That's that's a huge order from from Dale. I couldn't buy a new home alone. And I was wondering why I can't today it was all everything is on backorder. Yeah. And so I was one of the reasons like soon. It happened we say we should put this order in now because every school system in the country is going to be doing the same thing. We wait to see if everybody's going to open the kids and what's going on. We're not going to be ready to me instead waited to have that anyway, yeah. Yeah regardless of birth. We made that decision and made that happen. You know what I mean? So so that's one thing but that that the academic I mean the academic Gap just just got just got worse, you know what I mean for for black and brown and and Latino children across I think across the country because yeah the environment seven out kids gotta learn it. It's just not wage and we gotta find a better way. I'm especially for younger kids because they fought for our teenagers. I think I think they could functional better cuz they mature they got they own are they can be very independent. But for the younger the first grade the kindergarten first bracelet, you can't say that second grade it down in front of a computer for seven hours inspecting like, you know what I mean, like the schedule like forty-minute classes, like should they can it's just it's not conducive so we gotta figure out obviously with the health officials and make sure it's safe like safety is first, but we gotta figure out what that what that way is in in bridging that Gap bring Got back, but we fall from dealing with this pandemic. It's I think it's we're going to be read by the year two least a year to okay. I'm to get out to get to get us I think back to Thursday. We were right before like where where we were seeing performance, but you know God's will I think I think we're going to be all right, but we got you need the right people to make sure things are happening. Right and thank you know the money, you know at the end of the day the money and I'm talking about like the support and this this goes into like tutoring Services need to be providing, you know, smaller classroom sizes off students can get more one-on-one help and still hard for a teacher even online to deal with Thirty kids on one screen. You know what I mean? Like a Navy wild thoughts own children and they and they trying to make sure they kids are doing with it. Yeah, so it is it's rough. It's rough right now. Let me ask you this. I would say prior to be introduced to you. I was not very well versed educated on what someone on the board's responsibilities are and how they actually impact the school from an operational level even to a macro level. So for those of us that may not be just focussed on the principal we focus on the teacher or the counselor, whatever the case maybe help us understand. What does abhorred what is a board member responsibility and how do they impact the welfare of their jobs out in that school? Yeah. I'm glad you asked that question cuz I think it's a question that I think everybody should be asking because is this notion right wage that the Board of Education should be a membership yet educated because you got the word education and board of right that's life. and That's like saying if you if you got a franchise of a football team, right then is your board of your football team going to be all players. You know, what I mean? Either way is a critical you need them for your franchise. They make they make and break everything like either you grape or you not based off of those players on how well they can come together and get the job done. So that's that's that's not educators are right, but Simply Having a board of education of just Educators is not going to get you where you need to be right because the role of the board of education education wage is is to ensure education. It is not to educate break the that's the teacher's job right in the classroom. It's our job to make sure that they have what they need to the best of our abilities to to to to to educate our children. And so I tell people one for me as a former board member is the first to be engaged like too many times wage. Board of education is like that unsung job. Nobody want and the only people raise their hand to get it is they raise their hand because nobody else is raising their hand. So it's like the low-hanging fruit juice and then unfortunately people in the past abuse has just like a step in ladder in the political agenda. Right? Right, right a board of education or you go to House of delegates and maybe States and off work your way up right instead of it being about like you passionate about education and you want to make a difference in the community and you you want to make sure education is is is is is Dell, right and your community unfortunately traditionally, that's not how don't get me wrong or there are a lot of board members across the state across the country that that ought not the not the former right? But the role of the board Edge case one is 1 to be engaged for the community you represent just like any other elected official right for me. That's being engaged with the school's I walk into schools. Right? So when I'm talking about when I when I'm talking in the budget meeting and they talking about this money post. Go ahead as head this HVAC system posts have been done and I walk and my one of my high schools and I'm like dang it's cold in here. Yeah, it's different when I call, you know, the central office and be like, hey, I'm at such high school and I'm free time. It's different when I call you soon as that different when the principal call is they get a different response, you know what I mean? So so you gotta be engaged to ensure accountability. Okay. The second thing is the budget. Okay, right set like 60% or 70% of meetings are on budgetary items what their school construction the teacher salary how much money does school get in Verses that is budget. So to me if you don't understand institutional financial management, And that's not like how you manage your your business? It's not like how how you manage your money is up your household. I'm talking about 2 billion dollars, you know what I mean? And when you talk you got money coming from like five different places with five different rules about how you can spend the money when you can spend it. Once you can spend it all who you could spend it with how much has to go to bumper warranty. How much has to go to a local business? Like there's all Financial man. People say, oh I got Financial managers, I budget my aunt. I mean talk about right that's like wage is like again, that's like somebody saying, oh I can play checkers and we plan on the Monopoly board like you just like you just you don't understand the rules like, you know what I mean versus saying, let me understand financial management page so I can so I can advocate for my for my district of my community. Yeah, and then you know after that the rest is Whatever Whatever Whenever your package About you know for me, it's mental health support Early Childhood Pre-K 3 3 a Pre-K 3 and prepay for other board members this other topics, you know what I mean? But I think it goes in that order for Thursday for me engagement budget because that's your governing role. You know what I mean? The board of education has to establish the budget approved the budget send that forward slash and then and then they going to get the money and they charge to CEO to execute execute don't. Those dials right any budget changes or anything has to come through the Board of Education, you know, which is why I think you know, I'm not ideal candidate because I have that experience. I don't think only Financial Manager should be on the board about you. You want to diversity Board of skill sets off know you could have somebody in construction to understand big prizes good to have teachers understand. It's good to have principals who or somebody who's been impressed with sake understand that they have some operation folks who understand Logistics job. Busting right you this is system here people just because the word education is is Prince George's County Public Schools. Just because it says that it's so many other Things That Go Bump in it. It's a it's a huge company, you know what I mean? And so you want to you want that you want that diversity expertise smiling. She know what time it is, you know, sometimes you know, what time is the tournament first phone call saying this and once again, here's your guy district for nominee for Board of Education. Brian Swann go check them out right now and Where does website won't let me go check him out? Definitely essentially drop the gym that you'll be dropping out for financial literacy, which I G. You can just check on a small brain so long brown. That's why I'm Brian a swamp. Whatever you give to it to end s w a n b r y a n check him out so long. I'm going to lighten it up cuz I know we going they just smiling. How did you wind wind? Oh man. How do I change? How do you unwind a lot of I like a lot of different things? Yummy? Oh, let's go help you out. What did you tell people about you that no one would ever break. I see why you go for me. I keep running with you. I mean we all stay on the right. Yep. I tell you a quick story also, so when it come with a story happened, so I got out of hobbies jumps out. I think this most people won't even like really know unless you really kind of know me. Yeah is like salsa dance. I knew something like that either you play the ukulele song like I would know but it's a story so so so so against the salsa dancing around back actually I learn how to salsa a while. I was in Iraq where where so when I was in Iraq, we worked every day 12 or twelve hours on twelve hours off but there was a huge Latin mass population in the military out in Iraq at that time. Okay in the only entertainment we had was sauce tonight. And so they pay you out with people who have a buddy pass. So I never forget this one of my homies why Lopez shoutout shoutout shoutout want I got paid up with Juan Lopez Colombian my man, and we spent every day. Thanks one night want to come to me like yo yo, yo, yo swallow, you gotta come with me to something that I was like broke. I don't sausage. Yeah. I'm like, hip-hop nine already. Hey, you know, he was like, no he's got sauce tonight, but I can't go by myself. Yeah, you got you got roll with me cuz you my buddy. Yeah. Yeah, we both sorry. So we go man want dance what everybody in the drink all night long had I was I was just shocked. I was like, bro. You gotta teach me. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah song Cherokee that was out there like that was out that was a moment in time when we could mentally get out of the place. We were in right, you know what I mean? And so it became distinct apiece for me. That when I was once I learned and I could do it. I learned how to punch out the learn how to do all that you remember but Jonathan Myers you remember I never thought she'd go ahead once I learned it and and I started you know, and we were spent every week just counting the days until we got this all tonight. We would have like a little salsa lesson practice before and it wasn't just me and him it was a whole bunch of people in just on learning and we would we would dance or a sniper two or three hours. Now, what's our record that was out. That was I release, you know what I mean? Cuz you were working every day in the Heat and it was bombs off, but we would just be in some small classroom. Somebody got a radio and the laptop and they just planned and everybody just nice and it was just for me it was the most surreal thing off. And so when I came back, I just you know, I just gotta keep doing this like for me. That's my like it just became something that that when I do it, I don't think about anything else, you know, think about the ground. I don't think about worries. I think about family. I just I just enjoy it. I just had a good time and enjoy just the music in the style and the movements, you know getting this. I'm not an expert but I thought you got you got you got you got you know how to fool around the room and say less man. I ain't mad at you gotta learn some tricks man. That's a hell of a check right there. I would love to I would love to yeah. Yeah, I remember in I mean they probably still got it. But I remember some years back they used to do like salsa night like lessons or like a specific like, you can just go to Atlanta and you just participate, you know what I'm saying like and they'll just teach you and somebody being room and you just drive through the whole room and I thought that was cool. I think I did it once. Yeah, how long you think you figured it was just in a rolling like, you know, nobody knew I had never tell nobody knew wage. Now everybody know I did it once I did it once. So one of the things that we you know put in their pockets, one of the things that we can join is always a relationship topics. We always got relationships happened since you've got a lady in the room since we got lady in the room off. Yeah, and that that's that's the she goes way back. I feel it's only right that she asked you a relationship question the question of the week the question of the way what we what we ask em. Oh you asking this week will be a hard one. I didn't even really like a couple of questions. I know already for you. That would be bashful. I know like why are you putting me on the spot? Like you always be going at though? I think she's preparing. I got one for you real quick. There you go pagal Raja toxemia. The first thing is based on this conversation. One thing I want to applaud you on is your passion for Education. You don't really hear that a whole lot in the fact that it's directed towards our youth towards our future generation. So shout out to you for that secondarily, as I said before you you're a man of many accomplishments many achievements you nor your an educator you're working on this board. You're doing a whole bunch of things. You said you just did how many miles and how many days three hundred seventy-five miles and like the 40 days and 40 days wage? So ladies. She don't know how to run you can't catch up. All right, but wait we catch up? Now you got Sugar Rush. You can just you know Drive behind make sure all pants. Oh, yeah back don't give me some water to make sure I'm good. You know, it's good out of curiosity. How do you manage with everything else? Cuz I feel like these are things that aren't you just this is your your sweet spot as you say entrepreneurship service person or is there service so it feels like this is your priorities are the things that you go to sleep at night. These are the things you wake up in the morning you like I gotta get these done mind you your father as well. That's right. How do you manage the relationship site Society your world without getting too personal with it. But how do you manage happy wife? Happy life? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I mean whoever you wear whatever relationship you in like, I believe in two things as well and I'll tell you this in my in my in my workshop to home first thing. You gotta do you can't start anything if you're not committed. Okay, you can't you can't finish anything if you're not consistent. Yeah. I mean, so be committed be consistent like if you do that you go get anything you want off. Like the relationship you want. Yeah, you know, I mean sometimes relationships come and go for different reasons. Got you there Seasons, you know what I mean? But I just believe when I when I am in a relation I make on my priority. She she feels just just as just as much as me serving. I feel like I need to be a servant to her. Yeah. I mean just I need to be Innovative with her just as much as I mean Innovative my business. I need to protect her just like I went to protect my my children and I want you to repeat that use the p-word. What was the p word volt? I'll protect ya record scratch. Yeah, you know because you started off earlier, right? Yeah, you gotta remember what happened earlier, right? I just like that p word that they were just keep coming back. What do we say you get you make our priority and you what protective? All right, okay protect and provide their preferred like your your let me look at your job. He's a black man. You know, I just want to know to to everybody should provide is a is a very I mean a lot of different things. Yeah, I mean and don't don't get caught up in that provide in a sense of financial cuz I'm black woman is so strong, you know for a lot of them to include my you know, my mom in certain in certain instances certain ways have been the black men and they family right? They don't really they really don't need us to provide life and what they really need is to provide for their mentally emotionally spiritually, you know what I mean? And that's a different that's a different type of vibe. You know what I mean? Yeah, and I think Monday we we sometimes get caught up in this capitalistic State and we assume that provide just means financial, you know what I mean? And because we provide Financial we think we have some power off. And you don't reach. Yes, hold on for a second to see these are Target's the Shiites off. Now you're paying me. Let me just finish your power off and this is just my opinion your your power comes from your character. You're you're you're you're who you are here, which you can not what you had hmm mean I'm a mentor used to always say you're what you say your your camper. Your skill will get you the money, but your character will keep keep you to you. Got you got you guys skill will get you the job. Yeah get you to girl. But it's Colby your character write that keep that girl. Keep that job back. Then this is right. And so you gotta understand that same thing you provide for her initially. It may seem like it may be dead. You got to take her out and do all these things. That's cool. But but when you really are provide for is when you when you're providing that partnership that best friend that Mentor that that that that one that's going off lived her. That one is going to write it down with her. Like when you're providing that piece of her life that the other half of her life, you're providing her so like to her soul right off. That's when you're providing to me as a man. Okay? Let me know I tell you yes, that's why I wanted to ask Asian not speaking for all women here but speaking for you cuz you just you know, I'm saying and I you probably understand this but I'm not I'm just going to speculate the one assumption out here. You've probably met men that felt that provided meant the first name said which is financial. If you if that individual had the character that was say that they can pivot and focus on the other parts the emotional and and the mental and everything else. Have you ever found yourself or do you know how is there a creative or how could you communicate it to him? That that isn't what you need? Cuz a lot of dudes do have messed up. You know, I'm not raise my hand first. Yeah married. Yeah, like I've made that mistake before like being with someone who financially stable and is a provider of their own right? I can only talk to their life and not catch that hit because I had my own definition of providing but wasn't able to so first of all every woman wants both off. Like let me even if you can provide. Yeah, I mean you want to know that somebody holds you on that regard that they want to take care of you and provide for you, right? All right. So the first thing that you want to know that he would do it very important, right? And so that's I guess will you start a relationship and now you know and according phase right but then afterwards when we start talking about building and I think birth Like Brian, this is something he's always said to me, right so being consistent, you know is very important and it's just like a man knowing what he wants right because there's so many options out here and I just don't feel like and I don't feel like they kind of lock in I feel like they always want to see what's in the candy jar, right? So they're just like, you know, picking up different things trying and tasting they're putting it down, you know picking something up and it's not until a man really develops a vision for his self and the goal for his life that he can decide like this is the woman I want to be with and I want to build her because then it's not just about her beauty or it's not just about you know, the physical right? That's when he wants to have a soul-tie and I think that's what's missing in relationships right. Now. You know, it's just like no one wants to have that soul-tie, you know, everything is so temporary. Everything is you know about what looks good in the moment long as we're all aging and you know, we're all changing we're starting to see that like, okay like, you know, this is going to look different, you know, and a lot of years and so what people value has to be important and how long Value those things and honestly character to me is so important. And so I think that you know, it's not until you get older that you realize that we had a lot of years to make these mistakes, right? We've had a lot of years to look at vanity and make that the most important thing in a relationship and so, you know, I mean for me it's just like mint and I don't think they can really start to think about like what that relationship or what they want from one woman until they know what they took from themselves and vice versa for women too because I will say that like when I was younger, you know agency. Wow, girl never took it is just right like exactly like I think that's the best way to contribute to put a hand. Yes, you know, but I would just say that like when I was younger, you know, just and I had my choice of like men everywhere, right? And so it was just like, I mean, I felt like, you know, my hand was in the candy jobs like oh I want everything right like, oh, he's nice and he's nice and he's nice and I went on like really dead. Days now they wanted a like a lot of like great men and you know, but then after I had my son, you know, what I realized was like, whoa, what is Asia want and then, you know all of that changed for me like instantaneously and it's just like, you know before I can act so like who am I, you know, what do I have to offer like I started thinking about those things and then I started having those conversations with people like Brian and other people that I know and you know, I wanted to be off the Middle where he's talking about like I knew exactly what I wanted for myself and I knew that I could take myself there and then it wasn't about what a man could give me financially or we could provide for me. It's like now what are we building? And if he's not talking with me about building, you know, what does he he's not really saying anything to me right at that point. Like what do you have to offer me? Because like, you know, I'm still being approached by men that a younger than me man that a young age men that are older than me. Like I'm still a very desirable woman. So at this point it's like, you know, what are we competing for? Like, I'm not really a competing to be somebody's like housewife or somebody's like I don't need them. Taking care of like I don't that's not what I need, you know, so what I need now is, you know, someone that I can believe and I can trust like I can believe in him being consistent and us, you know, thinking about the future that we want wage for. Like now, I have a son like I have that to think about one more children. Like what is that going to look like? So it's just different I think like everybody's goals change, you know, I mean, even the people you see that are reality stars to start having families off like their conversation is different right? I remember one time Brian told me like there's a reason why we talked different and we walked different and we do things differently right as because we educated and we have a different outlook on it. I'm working towards building something that's bigger than what people can see right because what people can see shouldn't tell you a story about who they are. Right? So is what people have done like here are my receipts right? So I think that was like really profound and I think we don't have a lot of those conversations right? It's always about what is her body look like what does she look like, you know, and those are important too because I mean, I mean, I want someone who's desirable and looks good, you know them. Me as well. You know, I'm not going to say you're like, oh, you know as long as he's like smart and nice like no that's not true. I mean I get that's listed at all for life. But what I will say is going to be important, you know, I think character is important. I just think that we need to focus on that engine on that. I feel like sometimes communication is very important. And yes how we interpret certain words. Yes says, it all sucks. So unfortunately you're the lady in the room. Oh, how do you define character? I think if you stand for which a value system is as a the characters, that's how I define character. How do you define character similar? I think You know, it's the same way kind of a finance is funny how all these similarities in different parts of your life. You want to know what your about Page look at? What you spend your money. You'll yep. You want to know what you about? Look what you spend your time on you want to know what you about? Look who you spend your time with him? Yeah, I mean and you start to really realize that a person how you see yourself and how to were oh so you may not always be the same thing because we have this, you know, you had this idea of how you see yourself, right? But sometimes your subconcious and your boss is not always match up unless you really focus on training your subconscious, right? That's a whole another topic. But where you spend your time, will you spend your money? I think the fires your advisor character which you belong but you'll believe should affect your actions, right if you believe in something right and that should give you certain thoughts got you certain feelings and knows feelings and thoughts should ra-kang. Are you to do certain access on a consistent basis scratch that develop habits and always habits value character for that whole process. You gotta go through and you some people get stuck and some of those different choices, but that's where it go back to end of the day. I think I think Asia hit it on the head is Clarity like we it's hard to know exactly what you want wage will know yourself what you want. Yeah, you know what? I mean? I understand giving your space giving yourself to space to grow and learn about yourself. I think it's also important so you don't make sometimes you gotta make mistakes to do that. Right? Yeah, but other times you just need to give yourself time and don't rush, you know what I mean? Sometimes folks in the Justice hesitate, you know, they want to keep up with the Instagram and and you know floss out on a weddings in this end of it whatever right? But at the end of the day like Orion's going to do that though don't have a lot easier like when he had his lucky woman is out there, but he put a ring on your finger trust Thursday. I know it's been like personally. Well Ringo was she going know everybody want to know the pressures on now Thursday, I believe in divorce and none of that because I just believe if you if you got that Clarity. Yeah, like like for you you don't want to live your life without that woman or that man, you know mean yeah, whoever it is like like that's the type of I believe in like that I'm like, oh God Be Loved like that love that, you know God she got she got she special soul mate, like like so I always tell people like you understand like, you know, look for your moon. I say what you mean by that time and for me, it's a very scientific thing. I think I think we are connected. I gotta tell her about can I set up my girl Sam Bristo? She's supposed to be here today shame, but that's okay. She must be with you on his right? So let me let me just break it down. You guys find your Moon right? Because so check this out right dead. So God is like the sun or whatever it is with with your Guardians. Right? Whatever that means to you. You know for me is Christlike that's is this right? And and if the the Iraq issue it's the world right your world. But if you get too close to the Sun you're going to end up like Mars right going to be dirt. You're going to be hot and you can go no life you get too far away from the Sun you'll be ice cold or full of gas for the gas. Just putting it out there right hun intended pun intended, right? But when you got the right Moon a moon like other planets got a lot of moons, but no life just saying facts, right, but when you find your Moon it is our moon that helps keep us the perfect distance from the Sun that life crimes and Shane I'm saying so you keep your eye on your Moon. I mean on the sun find your Moon saying balance off. When is. You should reflect the sun to you I'm saying like when you think about that are not smart phones work that into the Love Jones song. Hey, baby, you want to go to that's not getting any younger. I know that sound a little corny little bit, but it's not really think about it. When you saying like how you should feel like that's just that's just how I see it, right, you know what I mean? And that's and that's to me that when you get to that place with a person and God willing you find that person cuz cuz I believe in life you you could you could have missed that opportunity. It could be that you know, there's a lot of you know Thursday. This is where you get God has given us will right and so he may put things in your life. But this show you gotta still choose it. But yeah enemy and so I just I just I just how I see how I see how it's not that's that's that's real. That's right. So yeah, so for me, yeah, like like I'm a type I get married. I like shut down G and like we just gotta watch count as follows. I mean, that's like that's hers and his like yeah, I mean, I'll still I G but it just y'all not like you won't find me. I hate us hate us. So Tony, do you think I mean Mary guy in the room? That's exactly how it should be not the whole life as as as we got going on all social media but everything else. Yes. Yes, sir. I fully agree like like a birth. Right character, you can also like I've said this before many times just like I also don't believe in divorce. So you want to have fun a life partner like as in like older you start to realize a lot of what we thought was important not important at all. Yes, sir. And it gets more complicated when you try to hold on to those old values. So you need someone to grow with to help you understand like we are on a new stages of Life. Yeah, and we're going to grow together, you know, like a a partner like how you described like the Moon being like your balance that you need someone to bounce you out. So sometimes you go out in the world you get distracted you get tainted you need someone to come home to to remind you like we are our own mission. Yeah. Yeah now that's that's facts right there. You know what I mean? And I think it goes back and then goes back to education like we wage are we teaching that for you, you know wasn't taught to us like what that mean? Like what what marriage means what love me like like like you get into this thing. I'm just like there's a dead. Demek divide, you know, there's an emotional divide. I mean, I mean do we have do we have the emotional intelligence? I know he's like, yeah. I mean like that's a whole like my setting just how we see each other not just the mention like just the whole household in a you know, in a man and a woman and just the black household is selfish just like never really existed in America really odd because because of slavery and everything that's happened that has changed forms. Really. Let me ask you a question real quick. I'm sorry to interrupt you. Have you ever done any like therapy? I yeah. I mean I've been in relationships where you know, you try to make it work and then you get to this place where you want to make sure that you have given it everything that you can before you like call it quits. Okay, then you you go through therapy and a relationship. But yeah, I mean, I've also been in Cal some of my family. Okay certain tragedies. Okay. Okay. Okay, like things things you go through. Is that what you learned about the emotional intelligence? Part, or did you learn it else? But I really I really learned it. I'm kind of went out when I started my first on personal development. Okay? Okay, and I think everybody should do that. You know one thing I teach in my workshop is that you just gotta be about growing your mind. Oh aspects, you know what I mean? Not just spiritually not just financially but your person of them how you think right off those thoughts affect everything man affect how you treat people how you talk with you spend your time on like what you believe in and I just think we don't spend the time developing your mind. Yeah, you know what I mean wage and you know, I went through a period so I used to do network marketing to okay, so I built just real big organization that real big but like two thousand people I can not an easy cuz people real skeptic when it comes in a network bottom. What was shut out to my father's family. I remember the five links, but We we did we did pretty good met some really good money, but it was really like a development a personal development course with a conversation plan attached to it. But when it when it when it woke me too, it's just how you can your your subconscious like a computer and you can program it. However you one you show your brain you show visions of anything multiple times over and over again and you will naturally have those feelings. It's like if you listen to the just a mean, you know, I mean like You know, so on like Meek Mill's like just real like Angry, you know what I mean? And you're listen to over and over and over again, you're going to wake up and you're going to feel angry either one day you wake up. And you know, why you angry something going to happen. You just want snap because your subconscious you've been feeding it that yeah, right. That's why I don't watch the news. Like I don't even I haven't watched them but like I get my information from reading books only news I watch is the is a CNBC because I feel like you got if you got an investment you just gotta know what's going on. Like that's that's piece of my financial life watching like the 10:00 news or the 5:00 Channel. Like all of those is just negative negative negative negative now major seeing it cuz you gotta stay what's going on in the world, but the local news is it's just off negative. Yeah, that's all and they want you to be anxious enough. Yeah, right you feel like almost depressed and if you watch that every day, right we night before you go to sleep and that's the images. You keep it like and you wonder why you suck. W mad at everybody want to go work your managers. Are you real anxious and worried of very high sounds so thank you for watching this in the clock news. Yeah, just a moment ago bout five people in jail. We're doing right down the street from the election right now. It's like I was coming on what what's going to happen? Is it going to be this? Is it going to be that and people sit on the edge of the seat and it's like, yeah, it's like doing that because you know, that's what sells you know what I mean the same thing some really real reality T. Yep. You know what I mean. That's why I like I watch Shark Tank. Yes reality t v but it's it's positive. You know what I mean? You could learn you see what people doing people like sociation for right now my garage and stuff like that like crazy with so much of that cuz sometimes they just yell for no reason. I didn't start off the brake. I don't care. That's the only like two seconds and explain be like, hey girl. Julie said that program is really just the programming go buy toilet. Paper Best Buy McDonald's Bob commercials. Yeah, and so and off but people don't understand. What's that? We're spending a lot of money and black people's pockets. What is reality t v? Yeah, I mean, yeah people they can't get it. You know, I mean is that as long as you get in it and you and you and you you own and stuff, you know, I mean I say more IG say Shack check said that I think like magic magic magic gave him the best investment advice Shack. It just got to Lakers first contract or whatever. You got like forty million off first 1 million and one day and shot. I mean magic came to check and told the man this great man, but you got on some stuff. I just like that just you gotta own some stuff like them. We're own, you know just applies that ownership. You know what I mean that has hands of value. Right? And so, you know, I'm not whatever hustle you got just this is as long as you just not you know, you know what your means said in like like what you doing with it, then you know what? I mean? What's next and you know what I mean? And so that I don't get so caught up in just doing that right then you end and this is why you know seventy 75% pro athletes a bankrupt after they come out to me either gotta let you know what I mean like you got the statistics today. So well we got to start doing is you know, using the data that we have to be smart about our choices. And you know, I think I athlete celebrity life whether it's you know, reality t or otherwise you don't mean also have a voice in in I think they shouldn't just let that meet that one venue need a voice log. And leverage. How do you leverage that praying? Yeah, you maybe you know Housewives of who whatever it is. But what are you doing to leverage that for your own brand of for your ownership for the home? Right? When you become the one that you're not really trying to be the crazy one to money. You know what I mean? You like? Yeah the next right? And so I'm glad that but outside of that because in that that shows the other people. Oh, yeah. Yeah, he or she was on that and the food here, right? But that was faulty. Yeah, you're on I mean like, you know, you just don't really know what's real. And what's not as for TV. Yeah, you know what I mean, but when you see them doing other stuff, that's you know what I mean, then I think about if like Waka Flocka has been all over i g talking about how his Investments and oh, yeah, he's been killing it right now. I don't think people even knew about that. But I think that attracted me to him I was like wait hold up a second. I wasn't I wasn't here when I was living in the states for a while, but living in London for a very much birth. Very different, you know, it wasn't something I expected. So I was you know, pleasantly surprised with that and I was like, yeah, shout out to him and Tammy and one thing I will give him credit for I wouldn't say I will give him the credit but I will give him the crack it to the U has taken advice but his mom being who she is. Yeah talk about your mom and your family and make tracks and your family and how they instill those values in. I think his mom did the same thing for him and he took he to those things and I think that's why he's able to do what he's doing and I think a lot of the times when we talk about these athletes, they don't have that tutelage and you kept saying one word over and over this entire time. You kept saying Mentor Mentor mentor and wage remember for many years. I didn't even know how to obtain a mentor. Can I heard somebody say just ask do you want a simple as just asking I feel like we're going to we're not going to bed cover this topic today. No, no remember when I saw that that story about like where they said that, you know, like, you know, just like people being Gatekeepers, right? Yeah, so we're going to talk about that, you know in another episode but Is like, you know people don't want to be your mentors. They want to be a Gatekeepers right? True true true go as far and build as far you know as they haven't and that's so limiting and stifle in for our community because it's like people need these mentors they you know, you can find them in the most, you know, unlikely places. Like they don't have to be people you work with like you can reach out to people just like, you know, Brian sure like, you know, you can go to another got one of the like sessions that he teaches them just like exactly, you know, you can call a g he's going to be here for a little over work right. Now this whole school thing is killer if anybody knows what life is like yeah happened did deputies happening but not like you're right. Like I literally was in Chick-fil-A one day and I met a man and he literally would just talk to me like he he single my son. Yeah, and I think I was saying to my son he just literally just start talking now start talking back like we just started having a conversation while being the line and as we were leaving, he said something about I T, and I said something back he was like dead. Oh and I was like, yeah and the more we kept talking. He's like, oh, I was the first African-American who did this and I was like, hold on. Yes. Can I get your number please and take the fun out the irony, maybe six months prior to somebody was like yo just ask cuz I remember being in Gold's Gym years ago Greenbelt. Yep. Yep, and I was working out with a guy. He was asking me and I was in college at the time. He was like, oh, what do you do now is tell him what I was studying and he was like you should get into intellectual property and I was like intellectual property. Whatever. What was that? Right man later I learned about it or what have you. I didn't get his contact. Yeah, but I remember him telling me and I remember going back to the Gold's Gym like for like a like a whole month like saying he's still coming through but he didn't go. Yeah. Yeah, he I didn't catch up with him at the point is dead. And so when I ran into this guy thought about it, but a lot of people don't know that right by we had this this I don't want to call it a pride or just whatever. We don't think that somebody will invest in us, but one thing I have realized in the people I've run into in the people who have had mentors has one of the times is often times. You come across people who are looking for someone to pour into they just want to see some initial with some drive it is, you know, I'm saying it's hard though and being a mentor when you know, like your mentees are people who want to you know, become your mentees, they're not necessarily like in a job in a position where they can benefit from the information that you're sharing that's also hard to like people talk about like you need to, you know, have some connection to the information. I'm sharing with you right because if you're not utilizing a knowledge then it's just I'm talking at you, right? It doesn't even make sense. Right? You're not applying it anywhere. So I think that's just important to like that's why it's such a slippery slope when people saying like I want to Mentor, how do I type in and they may you know, begin like they may be working at let's just say McDonald's right? And there's nothing wrong with working at McDonald's, but you know how if they want to come over into Corporate America if they want to, you know move into like a different industry, you know, it's like birth They start to have those conversations we can have those conversations. But if you can't use this knowledge in any like way like what am I talking to you about? So that becomes hard to it's a little challenging. Let me actually as we wrap up FAQs piggyback on that like you in your position right now. There's someone who may feel as passionate as you they may be coming out of college. They may be coming out of graduate school or they just may be inspired by this conversation and they may just want your tutelage or advice your whatever you like. Just that simple Jimmy. Yep, next radio supposed to hit people hit me up on life, you know, cuz it's more professional allergy whatever like I believe like this first yo, let's let's understand what it means to be a mentee. Also. Just okay, right see cuz I think people got to understand that all mentors are more mentors are not the same. I got mentors that I talked to once a year and just that one conversation Sparks me enough that that's all I need by some Mentos and I did a game. The information just as Spire you yeah, right. There's other mentors that you contact when you have a problem cuz they're good problem-solvers. They cook they did help you think about the angles that you don't see I mean life is over mentors that you have in different parts of your life. You know what I mean? So don't just think of Mentor it's going oh, this is my mentor. I'm a follow. Everything is menthol said yeah and life is going to be great. Now, I work like that. You know what? I mean? It's better that you have in the very particular thing that you looking for. You know what I mean? You gotta had a Clarity like, okay, like I came into some bread. You know what I mean? And what should I do? Yeah. I mean I was making $75,000 now making a hundred and ten thousand. I really don't need that extra bread like the extra $40 off on you know what I mean by on like and you say it's a surplus as a surplus or I can make it a surplus want to do something before I start living on it got it down. Yeah me and I didn't know what to do or you know, I got you know, I got this problem at work or I have private family girlfriend boyfriend. Whatever it is. Like I just feel like you gotta have something that you're saying. So one thing I always do when elements why I say, well, what's that goal? Yep met before we even start like like just what you want to get out of this. Like if you can't tell me what you want to get out of it, but I can help you I can guide you but I'm not going to I'm not going to really be able to really point to you the best I can burn and sometimes I maybe like I'm not the right Mentor for you. Once I know what your goal is. I might say but I mean that would be remiss but I'm not connect you with somebody who even is a person or may know the person might help you on that journey. I may not be I maybe just to connect right may not be that one, right? You know what I mean? And and so that's why I picked my people say well brand why are you so open because I known not always the one right energy to connect right you went to her house and hang on a minute. I'll just keep her always say I grew up in fact phone number. Don't back though. Not Hey, listen, I got the table is this has been a very very dope conversation. I did not expect what I got home. I felt it, but I didn't know he came to school to learn a day. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah like yeah like this is a very inspiring conversation. You know, it's very very very refreshing to have this conversation. And you know, we hear so many things about black men. Yeah, particularly, right and you know, because you're running your some will classify you as a politician write down a nothing politics political about you right now like you are just a real individual who want to do real good work and you have a real desire real Mission and you're there to see get this just happened to be the position get your ring. So I'm going to say thank you for somebody who want to say thank you for you cuz I it's it's really refreshing like, you know, I came up in the PG County system and web page. Came about academic center and all the above and etc. Etc. And a lot of people talk about the state of PG County Schools. Some people I know got kids now they're like look, we're moving over to Crofton am moving over to Anne Arundel County or we're moving a highway or whatever whatever and to know that you're at the helm of a myriad of different schools elementary to high school. Yeah, and you have a vision and you have this desire. I know that someone else is going to someone's going to benefit from there. There's a mother there's a father out there is like yo, I bet like, he's our champion like we can grab my my district already know cuz from day one. So just for those who may be watching. I'm so I'm currently I'm currently the board member. So what happened the old book the previous board member had to step down cuz she moved out of the district and that created a void for about a year so I count executive. I'm had a process to select somebody I didn't even know the County Executive before him. So my call me one day and said you're Brian you live in District for you know, they're looking for a new board member. Would you consider it? You know and I always knew I would get in politics at some point just because of who I am, but honestly at that moment I really wasn't looking to do it. I was about starting a business venture because I had been serving my my entrepreneur which was like, honey. Do I'm ready to do so, you know, but sometimes I'll put you on a you know, we need you to be obedient because you need to use you for for some reason right? And so I prayed on it and I say, all right. Well if that's what you want me to do, I'll put my name in it and if I get it and I noticed where you want me want and so all she selected me and then I prayed about again and I said, I don't know why you want me to do this. But but you know, I'm a see this was what name was Atlas. Was it the the individual executive Angela alsobrooks also? Okay. I'll also Brooks. Yeah, first first black never proud woman. I mean, I mean shout out to the black. I mean, I mean like phone number. Like I just I just you know, I mean, I just can't I just wanted her to get her stuff. Yeah, and so she appointed me. Yeah, but then once I immediately started going around to the schools in the district, I've always lived in in District Four. So I was somewhat familiar, but once I started understanding what the issues are, I really quickly knew why why she shows me but more importantly why he would walk right? You know what I mean and some additional already know like cuz they already they've been seeing me since way before like January saw it in January. So the parents already, you know, it's super engaged. You know what I mean? Like in person, you know much like how you handle the time, you know, you know your business is you got federal government that the boys you got your you know, just that never capacity man had this capacity bill for gonna mean it's just and I don't have no problem sleeping at night. I just you know what? I mean? I just wake up get it done and get my workout in, you know for five days a week wage. You know what? I mean, and I just get it done. And so this year for know as long as I'm here. They going to have somebody that's going to be a case going to be committed consistent. Right and we won't we going to move move the cows forward but I learned this your fault cuz it's mostly inside-the-beltway. Yeah, you know what? I mean? So I grew up in Lando. You know what I mean? I went to Blainsburg Elementary School like these these are the areas that you know, you know, my life is out there. You know what I mean? Like, you know, I'm from from Landover Grill used to run track forged on you know what I mean? Easy. These are like some of the oldest areas in our County and sometimes folks don't don't always remember and so I'm just happy to serve and as long as they want me I'm going to be there because that's why I think I want me to be and so I think everything I've done this point. I just relate to so many different people and so many different ways. Like I just we were at the posted a man just I swear like every other person I talked to was just like wage Oh, yeah, you were Marine. I'm due to the oh, yeah, I remember you. You did this this. Oh, you did five innings. Oh you do. Oh, yeah. I'm doing vestments. I Hurt You know, you do this that like it's just it's just crazy. Sometimes you just you don't really understand the vision into you start walking and you just gotta you know walk by faith not by sight. I know all this experience prepared you for this. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. And so when people say like off your politician you you political cuz I got appointed now, I'm in I really think it's Christ God just intervene into our situation is his time of peachy to wake up. You know what we got so much power we can be such a beacon for our community and we haven't even scratched the surface and if we can just unite and just take care of our own and take care inside the Beltway as well as I'm concerned about a man-boy it it'll be like a straight-up HBC like whole County, you know, I mean Universe like a whole County like if you just come through here like Club We should be taking over the state. We should be running the whole BW Parkway from the city all the way into Baltimore. You know what I mean? Like it should be like that should just be all us, you know what I mean off but we gotta you know, we need latest man and I Generations just want to wake up. So, you know, I think our parents generation have always been on that Forefront because of the the Civil Rights movements in the sixties, right? And so I generation didn't really have a crisis. We always had crisis but we always had them as being those. Yeah those folks to push it Forward, right? And so we need leaders, you know what I mean? And we got we got some powerful young leaves is doing some amazing things, but also think we got this generation that's in between jobs. If they just woken, you know, I mean, I think the times I definitely waking a lot of people love where it's really becoming about I think I am Whole nother conversation but the self it made for a while. We was only focused on ourselves your education you get in the house that you wanted you get living the life you traveling and I think that do this pandemic and everything that we seeing happen on the political landscape even on the just whole racial tension that is really just know it just ballooned to something else. I think it's wrong waking people up, you know, and what individuals such as yourself in the fire that you have behind you and think there's other people that are going to be inspired in your waking people up as well. So I think as long as long as every individual that we all have the leadership qualities and as we all as every individual starts to wake up, you'll start tapping people and bringing people on and that thing you talk about being the average Springs. It's going to start spreading. It's like anything anything else is contagious, you know what I mean? And the more we put it out there the universe and share and like it and connect people. You know what I mean? That's that's what I'm all about. You know what I mean so dead. So on behalf of the media podcast definitely want to thank you. I appreciate your brother like for real. And hey, we can't get our Queen who made this all possible that young family. She got her out like all the ladies in this room now. Absolutely ladies and gentlemen want to thank you haven't really tuning into this episode gets really really really deep conversation, you know, so wherever you are, we hope that you will have are inspired to also join the fight whether it be education or whatever and your community. So your first choice absolutely no forget to vote for Brian definitely both applying. Absolutely Pub his name as big as possible. This episode is going to release actually on Monday. I said Tuesday to you earlier. We releasing a day earlier to make sure that people go out to those awful. Yeah. So we're gonna plug that out. Once again, where can I find you online? How could they get in contact with you just in general and over? Yeah. You can reach me at a swamp for PGCPS, swap for PGCPS off. Haji on Facebook or Swan Brian or a g? I'm just hit me up can't connect like join join join this man, you know, I mean, we we need we just need people sharing the word understanding that we if we took together, you know, we can we can do some things real powerful for for everybody and we we leave nobody behind Marines only people behind us. That's how we wrote ideals of reading some other risk of them. Like they don't think I owe you gotta don't like no joke, but with that being said you want to thank you once again for listen to put in your pockets this episode 142 you Gaston sets online at Beatty b e s. Yes Miss Asia a build 1823 NBA is George D. You get the podcast app pens happen School podcast cold here. We got a link there. You can subscribe you can share you everything. We got a lot of merged with someone at the mo put in their pockets at gmail.com Yar out.

Prince George's County 63% PG County 40% Prince George Marine Corps 55% forty seven years 1 billion dollars Aja Bleu Willie Rivers Maryland Mister Bryant swan 60% Iraq US Department of Treasury Department of Treasury Stanley Financial intelligence hundred percent six feet
NPR News: 12-17-2020 5PM ET

NPR News Now

04:39 min | 7 months ago

NPR News: 12-17-2020 5PM ET

"Live from npr news. I'm jack speer. President elect joe biden says a cybersecurity attack targeting major branches of the. Us government is a matter of grave concern. Npr's frank or donors reports biden vowed to take swift action. Once he takes office next month. The president elect promise that his team would make the attack a top priority at every branch of government when he becomes president on january twentieth. In a statement he said quote our adversaries should know that is president. I will not stand idly in the face of cyber assaults on our nation russian government. Hackers are believed to be responsible for infiltrating computer systems at the pentagon the department of homeland security the department of treasury and others. It's just the latest incident in what has become a long list of suspected russian electronic incursions into other nations and particularly the united states. Frank out or down yeahs. Npr news a panel of independent. Experts has now voted to recommend the fda authorized modernist cove vaccine for emergency use. The group met today. Npr's joe palca was listening in on panel discussions and has this report. The application was submitted by the biotech company. Madonna on november thirtieth. The company presented the panel with details about the studies. It has done to show that the vaccine is safe and effective for example a study in thirty thousand volunteers showed that two doses of the vaccine was more than ninety four percent effective overall in preventing covid nineteen. Although there were unpleasant reactions to the injections most were mild to moderate. Did not last more than a day or two. The fda is expected to make a decision about granting an emergency use authorization in the coming days. Joe palca npr news. President elect joe biden has chosen and experienced but not widely known state regulator michael regan of north carolina. The lead the environmental protection agency. He was one of several contenders whose name has emerged. In recent days biden's pick was confirmed. Today by a person who's familiar with the selection process so tapering off across the northeast. Were anywhere from one to three feet fell in many spots as npr's tovia smith reports temperatures now in their way down or making for icy conditions. Parts of the northeast got walloped with some inches for example and binghamton. New york and southern new hampshire but boston will likely end up with just over a foot. More like your garden variety nor'easter. According to national weather service meteorologist rob meg neha bumping two out of the ordinary serb for boston. We've seen plenty of snow storms like this before but for december. It's it's certainly impressive. In fact only a dozen times in well over a century has one storm brought this much snow here in december magnesia says but even so twenty twenty as a whole. We'll go down as way below the city's average for everything else. This year has served up. It's gone easy on bostonians in terms of snow tovia smith. Npr news boston. This is npr. A new survey showing sharp differences in the way us religious groups view. The coronavirus pandemic npr's. Tom gjelten says white house. Evangelicals are the least likely to see the virus a critical issue in the most opposed to wearing a mask the survey by the public religion research institute sheds new light on how reactions to the corona virus are polarized nine groups were surveyed ranging from white evangelicals to hispanic catholics and those with no religious affiliation white evangelical alone in not ranking the pandemic as one of their three most critical issues on the other end for of five black. Protestants said the virus is their number one concern. On whom they trust. Most for information on the virus white evangelical were far more likely to say president trump. The least likely to say they wear masks and the most likely to say churches should be able to hold services even when the government has limited public gatherings tom gjelten. Npr news number of people. Filing first time jobless claims rose again last week assigned. The ongoing economic fallout from the coronavirus. Pandemic is not over labor department reporting initial jobless claims rose to eight hundred eighty five thousand eight hundred and sixty two thousand the previous week numbers show that nine months after the pandemic began slamming the us economy many employers continue to cut jobs prior to the pandemic weekly claims generally numbered about two hundred and twenty five thousand on wall street today. The dow up one hundred and forty eight points. The nasdaq rose one hundred six points the s&p five hundred gained twenty one points. I'm jack speer npr news.

npr news President elect joe biden joe palca jack speer Npr news tovia smith department of treasury biden michael regan fda npr Npr tom gjelten rob meg neha boston Npr department of homeland securit pentagon us
NPR News: 12-14-2020 12AM ET

NPR News Now

04:39 min | 7 months ago

NPR News: 12-14-2020 12AM ET

"Live from npr news. I'm nora raum. Santa clara county. California is said to be one of the first counties in the us to receive the in nineteen vaccine. Doses are to arrive as soon as monday for member station k. Q. e. d. sarah hosseini reports santa clara county was home to the first known victims of the corona virus in the united states. It's now poised to receive among the first shipments of the new pfizer. Drug thanks to its large. Ultra cold storage capacity county testing and vaccine officer dr mardi fenced or chaib says skilled nursing facility. Staff will get the first of two shots starting later this week about six thousand people. We certainly don't them all coming at. In case anyone ends up with some of the mild side effects so we'll do a portion and a portion portion and we'll get them all vaccinated hopefully in the next few weeks the remaining nearly twelve thousand doses will go to a fraction of staff and hospitals in the county for npr news. I'm sarah husseini hell. The pandemic was handled. Played a big role in the el paso. Texas mayor's race this weekend. The incumbent was ousted in a landslide for member station k. T. p. t. p. And he'll could share go. Reports i her mayor de margaux. Split with other local officials who pushed for more stringent measures to protect the public during the pandemic former mayor oscar laser one nearly eighty percent of the vote in saturday's runoff. Election leaser told caveat television. He's ready to get to work toward for all our leaders state local and actual leaders from pastors represented. We get opening the control this weekend. El paso reported forty one additional deaths and eight hundred and twenty seven new cases. I'm angela co-chair gone el paso more than one point. Two million voters georgia have requested absentee ballot for the january fifth. The us senate runoffs a meal moffitt from member station w. a. b. e. reports barring a court order the rules governing. Absentee ballots in. Georgia won't change before the critical january. Runoffs that will determine control of the. Us senate status had no excuse absentee voting since two thousand five but some republican lawmakers are promising changes when they return next month based on unproven allegations of massive fraud that worries former democratic gubernatorial candidate stacey abrams the challenge they see now is not that. There is any proof of widespread voter fraud. Their concern is that there is widespread use by voters who chose not to elect their selected candid. President elect joe biden. One two thirds of the mail in vote to be the first democrat to carry georgia since nineteen ninety-two for npr news. I'm a meal moffitt in atlanta on saturday. The georgia supreme court dismissed the latest trump lawsuit. Attempting to overturn the state's presidential election. The joe biden. One you're listening to. Npr news the fbi and the department of homeland security are investigating the hacking of federal computer systems including the department of treasury and commerce. The attacks were disclosed days. After a national security agency warned russian government. Hackers were exploiting vulnerabilities in his system. Used by the federal government. The government has not said who is behind these attacks. Investors will be paying close attention this week when the federal reserve holds. Its last meeting of the year. Npr's jim zarroli reports. Fed policymakers meet on tuesday and wednesday and are unlikely to change interest rates. Still investors will be listening to hear where they see the economy going despite big progress in vaccine development coronavirus cases are surging. And there's evidence. The economy continues to slow. Unemployment claims surged last week. Congress has so far been unable to agree on another stimulus. Bill and brexit is looming. Which is sure to disrupt trade in europe. Meanwhile important numbers on retail sales will be released on wednesday and they should shed light on how the slowdown is affecting consumers. Jim zarroli. Npr news author of luke array has died. His agent said he died. Saturday in cornwall in southwest england. After a short illness his family said it was pneumonia. Look array was a british intelligence agent who became a british spy novelist writing such classics as the spy. Who came in from the cold and tinker tailor soldier. Spy gentler cray was eighty nine. I'm nora raum npr news.

npr news nora raum sarah hosseini dr mardi chaib sarah husseini eighty percent el paso angela co Santa clara county santa clara county Us stacey abrams Npr news senate President elect joe biden pfizer npr georgia department of treasury
EPISODE   262   "NUMBERS MATTER."

Native Opinion Podcast an American Indian Perspective

40:32 min | 9 months ago

EPISODE 262 "NUMBERS MATTER."

"Your team. How This genocide on slave. To these things. Thirty days was a decoy every. Every. Blue reach native opinion. As always, we are an indigenous information and educational radio show and podcast. And every week. We talk about current affairs related to from. Our Own? Native. American perspectives? My Name is David Grail. And you have reached native opinion. I'd like to welcome everyone to this podcast. The Wednesday edition. And I'm hoping that we will continue to do this Wednesday edition. At some point, my brother may be able to join us once again when his work schedule allows. But as always, we need to take care of little housekeeping before we get into the show. And how you can reach us is by host with an S. AT NATIVE OPINION DOT COM. You can reach us in the twitter verse. At native opinion over there. On facebook facebook, dot com forward slash native opinion podcast. And on our web page and NATIVE OPINION DOT COM. You can also subscribe to this podcast. And if you've already done, so you can continue to reach us on what ever podcast host that you can. find us on apple podcast Google podcast. Radio Republic Stitcher Iheartradio spotify or again from wherever you can download your favorite podcast. And you can leave us a voicemail. At Eight, six, zero, eight, hundred. Five, five, nine, five. Again that's eight six zero. Eight. Zero Zero. Five, five, nine, five. As. You know we. Present a podcast, every week and a live show Saturday. And that live show began at ten am. and. We would like our listeners to know we appreciate every bit of support we receive from you. That financial support, we receive goals directly to our cost and expenses associated with producing the show. And those expenses are things like website and podcast hosting. Music Licensing. Content Development and curation. Daily Business Operations Marketing. Advertisement and much more. and. If you would please join other wonderful folks who have contributed to the show by becoming a patron. You can find details on our website at native opinion, dot com forward slash support. and. On our facebook page just by clicking on learn more button. Another great way to help us to tell other people about the show. And again, we thank you offer listening and sharing our show and it really does help us grow. And this week's episode is two, six, two numbers matter. I gave our listeners a little bit of a tease. Last week about this episode, we'll get into that in a moment. But first. We want to let you know about what he can trading post. Fine Authentic Mohegan handmade crafts, beadwork, ribbon shirt, embroidered hats, dream catchers, and other specialty items can be found. At. Mohegan reading post. They now offer cloth mask with sizes for the entire family. These masks are made from one hundred percent pleaded cotton in two different styles with various printed designs. They can be washed. And reused. And that's something that's a real advantage over disposable face coverings. Customers for many products are also available by request. Please visit he can trading post dot com to check out their designs. and. Again, we think Mohegan trading posts for being. A loyal advertiser on native opinion. And again, that is Mohegan trading post dot com. And again, we thank them. So last week. Saturday. I gave listeners a little bit of a tease about. What was going to? Be In this episode. And as Some of you may have discovered. The full in the white. House has petitioned the courts to stop the census. And I've had many many conversations with natives, a non natives alike over the years about how important or unimportant the census maybe. and. When it comes to native Americans. Numbers matter. Those numbers. Help. Is the right word but. The government uses those numbers in funding allocations. Services like Indian health. Housing and other things like that. So numbers matter. And it seems that the government is up to it shenanigans to tried to. Cheat some of the tribes out of things that are due to them. And that doesn't surprise me in the least. And I'm sure it doesn't surprise many of our listeners. But to give you a better idea of what I'm talking about. This article. Came across. My Desk. Towards the end of last week. And the title is more than two dozen federally recognized tribes. have. Zero. Population. That's zero population according to the Treasury formula. In this was written by the native news online staff and the byline reach when it came time to distribute cares act relief aid for tribal governments. The US Department of Treasury used a formula that determined twenty five. Federally recognized American Indian Native Alaskan. Tribal entities had zero population. And this was posted on native Musone nine dot net. How they could determine that there's zero population in a tribe. Is. Beyond me there's a formula used and I looked into this a little bit more. And the links be in the show notes in you'll find that it's quite surprising. But out of Washington the Department of Treasury cares. Act Distribution. Formula. Determined Twenty Five federally recognized American Indian tribes and Alaskan native tribal entities had zero population. The, that left me scratching my head a little bit to. The formula which was used to allocate, and this next is going to sound really familiar because we've talked about it often. The, formula, which was used to allocate eight billion. That's billion with a B. and relief funds for tribal governments was based on population data from the Eric comes the -partment of Housing and Urban Development Hud Program for Indian Housing Block grants. which doesn't count tribal members who live off the reservation. Tribes with zero population were allocated the minimum distribution of one hundred, thousand dollars of care relief funding. Okay so if they had zero population. Y ALLOCATE MONEY TO A NOT ENTITY That's the first question I would ask. The article goes on to say at least two federally recognized tribes have sued the Treasury for under counting the populations. Good. Numbers matter. The fact that the census has been halted stopped and halted again. Is. A stark? Example. Of This administration doing everything it can to. Weaken the structure of and I'm air quoting sovereignty. And the government government relationships between tribes and government. The article goes on to read this week. The miccosukee tribe of Indians of Florida filed suit in Federal Court in Florida. The legal action follows a similar lawsuit filed by the Shawnee tribe in June. Both tribes are seeking relief funding amounts. They claim are owed based on their actual populations rather than the hud data. The American Indian tribes in the Group of Twenty five included. The miccosukee tribe of Indians of Florida the ONONDAGA nation. Tunnel wanted to ban of Seneca TUSCARORAS nation. Dan Delaware tribe of Indians Eastern. Jenna, Ban, of, Choctaw Indians Shawnee tribe. Tourist Indian right. Sierra. Augusta Ban of WHO Indians I'm sorry if I mispronounced that. There's another tribal name that I can't. I'm not even going to try to pronounce because I will rip. the in the high band of Da Guarino Michigan. Indians I'm sorry I mispronounced that name. Jackson Band of me. Walk. Jamal Indian vintage village excuse me coin nation of Northern California lower late. Tae, John Indian tribe or Tejan Indian drive. And the Alaska native tribal entities include. I'm I'M GONNA mispronounce a lot of those they'll be in the show notes as well. The. Links that I'll provide in the show notes for. Some of the formulation that they used for this is. Bogus. Sounding to me. It it's it's all centered around block grants. Indian housing block grants. And it seems to be formulas that they've reworked. TO WORK AGAINST TRIBES And we. Tribal. Positions. Within the federal system. I believe. And I could be mistaken but I believe. That this is just an attempt to. Remove federal recognition from tribes one at a time or group said of time. And be done with the whole federal process I i. believe if the fool in the white gets reelected, they're going to continue with this process. This program of. Not. Counting. Natives whether they're on the reservation are not. So. This is something. Okay. My eye on because it warrants warrants observation. God knows I don't trust the fool in the White House. Going on with our second article in native Neal's this kind of dovetails into what I was just speaking of. The title of this article is Supreme Court grants the fool in the White House's administration. My words request to halt senses while appeal plays out. This was written by Aryan Vogue I'm sorry in Gregory. Wallace CNN.com. The Supreme Court on Tuesday granted a request from the full in the White House's administration my words to halt the census. Count. While an appeal plays out over a lower court's order that it continue. Now for the life of me, why would that administration want the census to stop? This. There's a lot a lot of different reasons. that. Make no sense to antibody. Other than. Removing. Rights to various pieces of land. Resources. And other things that belong to native people. That previous article was directed at native people. So if they can determine that a tribe has zero population. It's easy for them to say, well, that tribe doesn't exist anymore. So depending on where that tribe is located. The federal government will have carte blanche. To Pilfer whatever resources may be on that tribes reservation. Halt of the census. In, my opinion plays right into this. The article goes on to say the administration asked the court for immediate relief because a lower court will have have required the census count to continue until October thirty first. The foods administration, my words argued. That would have prevented Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross. From delivering account of the nation's population to the fool in the white. House. My words by December thirty first. The ruling is a win for the administration which argued. The short deadline is necessary to give the Commerce Department enough time to meet the December deadline. The administration noted that the count had been delayed by. Kobe, nineteen but. That if the time spent counting were shortened that deadline could still be met. Commonsense would say extend the deadline. Justice Sonia Sotomayor your dissented from the order fearing. That the short time line would produce inaccurate recall results. Excuse me the thank. Quoting. Because the harms associated with an inaccurate census are avoidable and intolerable. I. Respectfully. Dissent from the grant of the stage she wrote. and quote. Nor the justice noted a descent which is alarming to me the no, the justice voiced. Voiced opposition. Attorneys for the groups that sued the administration told, CNN They will wait to see the Census Bureau's next steps to determine how to respond quoting every day has mattered. And the Supreme Court's orders staying the preliminary injunction does not ease the tremendous progress that has been made as a result of the district courts, rulings and quote Melissa Melissa Sherry an attorney at late them and Watkins who argue the case in the trial said in a statement. The Census Bureau said in a statement Tuesday that. In quote well, over ninety nine percent of housing units. have been accounted for and that self response filled collection operations could and will conclude Tuesday. San Jose Mayor Sam. The Cardo, who cities among those sowing, the administration. Told CNN. They will continue to move the lawsuit forward in the lower courts and successful will absolutely requests the Census Bureau to go back into the field to count people later that year. But such a move would be difficult. Carl. Tobias. A law professor at the University of Richmond told CNN quoting. This Day is effective as effectively the end of it and quote he said. Today's order is just the latest twist in what's become a long running political dispute. And it's likely to fuel fresh scrutiny over the accuracy of the bureau's US population count. Again, they don't have any desire to to. Do an accurate count. Why. They want to end the count even if it's three weeks sooner than necessary makes absolutely no sense. Other than to. Rob People of things that they have a right to. which this administration is good for. So hopefully. The court will rule that the census should continue until. The thirty first. But we shall see. We shall see how effective the court will be in letting the right things be done. I'm hoping that that's the case. But we shall see. The latter part of this article. Late June July early, August Ross directed census officials to come up with a plan. To convince the door knocking operation. So this is something that they had been planning. Shortening the number crunching process to meet the December thirty first deadline. Officials warned in internal emails reviewed by CNN that such account would be. Of Tally. Of unacceptable quality with fatal flaws and carry the stain of politically manipulated results while that's exactly what it's going to smell up. In one email Ross asked if a shortened schedule allow the numbers to be produced during the fools presidency my word. That's adjusted a concern that Republican leadership rather than a potential Joe Biden presidency. Make determinations of who is counted while also risking a significant snake significant. Excuse me. Under count of the population in as many as ten states. So you see the smell of this rat is wafting. All through. This whole entire thing. Now, I'm wondering if those ten states that they've mentioned just happened to be blue states. I wonder. But the rest of this would be on the show notes and we shall see what happens. I'll keep an eye on this as well. This. Next article is in other news and it's something that. Really, caught my eye. Because it has to do with something that we've reported on. A few episodes ago. Where a congressman grilled. Some of the major bank executives about diversity. So I taught this article is really interesting because somebody obviously stepping up to the plate. And this article headline reads. J. P. Morgan pledges. Thirty billion billion with a B. to boost diversity. Black. Latino homeownership banking. This article was written by Chris. Kristen Meyers for finance dot. Yahoo DOT COM. J. P. Morgan Chase Jay PM on thirsty. I A five year. Thirty billion with a B. Initiative to tackle racial inequality within black and Hispanic communities. Now something stocking stark stark Something that's missing from this is. American Indians Native Americans. We're not mentioned anywhere in this whole whole thing which which saddens me a lot. We should be included in this formulation. And Plan of J.. P. Morgan. If we are no one saying anything. Or they're throwing us in the mix with everyone else like they usually do. The article goes on to say the broad initiative seeks to bolster homeownership increase banking to underserved communities provide capital to minority owned businesses and diversify the banks own employees ranks. In total? The largest bank is pledging twenty, six billion. To various housing initiatives the bulk of the bank's financial. Commitment. The some is the largest today committed by single entity. And comes as the US is royal by social unrest and the fallout from the coronavirus pandemic. Social ills that we see day in day out result from housing inequality. Income inequality. Racism. Systemic racism. These things Could go a long way. To solving some of the social ills. If people would look at the causes of the social ills that we see. Discrimination and inequality and injustice. Are. The biggest drivers of social ills in any society doesn't matter whether it's ours. Our northern neighbors, our southern neighbours, our neighbors across the pond. Those factors, drives, social ills. Quoting. SYSTEMIC RACISM IS A tragic part of Americans, American history and quotes. JP against chief exact executive Jamie diamond in a statement. Quoting again, we can do more and do better to breakdown systems that have propagated racism and widespread economic inequality. Especially, for black and Latino six people. It's long past time. That's -ociety addresses, racial inequalities, and I'm more tangible meaningful way and quote the CEO added. Well let's hope it's let's hope it's not. All fluff. No stuff. Let's let's hope he's going to. Do something meaningful with his his pledge and his words. The. Move follows a similar initiative from city. Which pledged? One billion. With a B.. Racial, equality, initiatives recently. The bank released a report that found systemic racism has cost the United States sixteen trillion with not. Over the last two decades and we reported with that article. Few. Episodes ago. So that's sixteen trillion with a T. Just think of how much This nation could have repaired a lot of things. That is socially. Plaguing US things like hunger. Housing. Health. Healthcare. Lots of things. But the powers to be. Or the powers that be. decided that that money was better spent. Elsewhere. Or better placed elsewhere. In their pockets instead of investing that sixteen trillion with a T. In our society. So, as a result, two decades later, here we are. Quoting, we responsibility to intentionally drive. Economic include inclusion for people that have been left behind in quote. Said J.. P.. Morgan's global head of diversity. And Inclusion Brian Lamb and a statement. Quoting again, the COVID nineteen crisis has exacerbated longstanding inequalities for black and Latino people. No mention of natives natives around the world and quote lamb wrote quoting again, we're using this catalytic moment to create change and economic opportunities. That enhance racial equality for black and Latino. Communities in quote. Okay. It's all well and good you WANNA wave dead presidents around. But? What are you GONNA do with those dead presidents? Where are you going to utilize those dead presidents? They do no good if they're not being placed. In areas. That address, the problems that caused these things to be problems in the first place. Police brutality. That's one of the areas that. Some of those dead presidents can be utilized most. Clean Up. The police departments Get the trash out of the police departments. That's a good start. Jay People get stated that part of its programming through. Advancing black pathways will be aimed at thirteen cities including Detroit New York Houston New Orleans Los Angeles. Baltimore and Atlanta. The firm aims to increase black and Latino homeownership by creating an additional forty thousand dollar for home buyers. That's that sentence stinks to high heaven. The firm aims to increase black and Latino ownership by creating an additional forty thousand loans for home. Why would these loans made available to the first place? Why? Because? People of Color. are systematically more often denied loans for housing. That paragraph goes on to read while helping twenty thousand households, refinance their home loans and lower mortgage payments for thousands. Okay, that last part of that paragraph. People of Color. Who are able to get mortgage is? Wind up paying on average a higher interest rate. Much higher interest rate. So its stood of throwing money at these problems now. Why didn't you do something preventative to keep them from becoming a problem in the first place? Why because of sixteen trillion with a T dollars? That's money. The banks were not able to. Utilize. It's gone that money is lost in lost in them wind. It's gone. In, addition, the banks plan to target affordable rental housing by financing an extra one hundred thousand. Rental units. Making owning renting. A reality for blacks. Latino's. It's something that could have been. Fixed a long time ago. By stopping redlining. By Stopping Inequality in the banking system. By leveling the playing field for people of Color. This isn't something new. People of Color being kept out of homeownership. This is Neil. It became a process. That someone fabricated it became a manufactured workable process. At, the at the end of World War Two. Research and you'll find out that. When soldiers came home from? World War Two. They were given the opportunity to purchase homes through the Veterans Administration. While both home purchases did not happen. For most people color. Because, they were turned down. This nation has a lot to answer for. Maybe. This is somebody's. Guilty conscience eating atom. So they're gonNA, throw billions of dollars at the problem. And see what sticks. The article goes on to say low home ownership rates among minority house households. Has Long been a driving factor in increasing racial inequality in the country. I just mentioned something about that. particularly in cities like Chicago where redlining. was. Prevalent. Denied access to land before the turn of the century. Black households were subject to race racist policies of Red Lining Contract Bein, and land devaluation. Quoting in Chicago. Chase has doubled its homebuyer assistance grant. To five thousand dollars and minority black communities the bank stadium. Quoting again to help more current homeowners, take advantage of historically low interest rate but who cannot afford the upfront cash needed to refinance chases providing a twenty five hundred dollars grant to customers who refinance with the firms. Dream maker I dream maker product in quo. The banks moved were applauded by a range of grassroots and activist organizations. Including the National Fair Housing, Alliance and the National League Quoting JP Morgan chases new commitments will help make owning or renting a reality for more black in like teen ix families whose housing asks access has been impeded by decades of systemic. Racism. And are now disproportionately affected by the impact of Cova nineteen in quote said Lisa Rice CEO of the National Fair Housing Alliance in a statement. Okay. So The rest of that article will be in the show notes please please please read the article. It's an admission of some sort. An admission of guilt maybe. It could be an attempt to. Put. More money in the pockets of the banks. We'll have to see we'll have to see how this plays out. Hoping what J. P. Morgan Citi are doing are for good reasons things they're doing for good things. I'm sure money is a motivator. I'm sure they hope to get something out of this. I've not ever known bank to throw money at a project just because there's something that they have to get back. But numbers matter. Numbers matter. In situations like The census? Numbers matter in this last couple of articles I just talked about. It's all about the numbers. It's always been all about the numbers. Decreasing numbers. Of An entity or a population. That's not wanted. is a sure way of getting rid of a perceived problem. And it's only a perceived problem in the minds of those that. Want to steal. And continue their their agendas of hate and racism. Numbers matter. Well I WANNA thank you all for joining me for. Our Wednesday edition. Of Native opinion. Episode to sixty two numbers matter. I'm going to play out. And I'm hoping that. Everyone will. Send me a little email will feedback about this particular of so your. And you can do that by sending me an email host with an S. at native opinion dot Com. You can also reach us at twitter at native opinion. And you can find us on our facebook page. FACEBOOK DOT COM forward slash. Native. Opinion. PODCAST. On Our web page. NATIVE OPINION DOT COM My name is, David. And once again, thank you for joining me. On our Wednesday edition native opinion. Break you all have. A safe week. And we will see you again on Saturday. Well. Stay say.

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66 - Hacked: Cyber Security with David Holtzman (Part One)

Politics: Meet Me in the Middle

38:00 min | 2 months ago

66 - Hacked: Cyber Security with David Holtzman (Part One)

"From kurkcu media imagine sending thousands of dollars to a criminal because of a fake email. That looked like it came from someone. You trust it's a cybercrime that tends to get a rather unhelpful response. When reported to your local police. Sorry ma'am sucks to be you. They can target you me or our whole country. When we think about the need to repair country's infrastructure we think about roads bridges airports. But there's another kind of infrastructure will be rely on even more every day. In fact each of us depends on it banks and wall street our electric grid the gas companies. The us government couldn't even function without it the army and navy and the airforce marines couldn't defend us without it of course. I'm talking about america's digital infrastructure. You remember the attack on sony pictures a few years ago and no doubt. You're aware of the recent ransomware attack. On colonial petroleum's pipeline. It triggered a fuel shortage on the east coast. And of course the granddaddy of all hacks through a company called solar winds is said that russia attacked eighteen thousand. Us companies and some of america's most sensitive agencies including the national security agency and the department of treasury. What is really at risk here. Could a cyber attack bring the nation's economy to a halt. Our guest today wrote the book on the subject. Not sure we could ever have a more important episode of politics me in the middle. I'm bill curtis and once again. Co host. Is jane albrecht. She's an international trade attorney. Who fought for us. Economic and business interests to high level government officials overseas. She's a member of the us supreme court bar and she's also been involved with several us presidential campaigns. Welcome jane nice to have you always good to be here and welcome david and our special somewhat scary guest david holtzman as cto of network solutions. He oversaw the growth of the commercial internet from five hundred thousand to the first twenty million domain names frankly he has got an exhausting resume. A cryptographer a russian linguist sub mariner with the us naval security group. David was a fellow at amazon. He advised numerous high tech startups and even served as a senior security adviser to general wesley. Clark's two thousand four presidential campaign. Oh and bill clinton's y two k. Committee he has been interviewed by pretty much. Every major news media you can think of and he climbed mountains. He's gone on horse. Treks in mongolia dog sledding in lapland. And he's even worked underwater in submarines in the field of cyber intelligence. No one ever called him lazy. Welcome david nice to have you here. Thank you happy to be here. You climbed kilimanjaro really. Did you find what you're looking for up there. I was in my mid fifties. When i did it and i was so happy and i was going to go down all these people as i didn't i was going to survive. And the guy rate after me down yet notes seed and he had actually gotten up the down faster than me with no feet and he was two years older than me. So i shut up so getting down to our subject the other day. You broke down three reasons. Why people in countries get hacked. Can you outline that for us. Yeah there's also a time thing. Things evolved over the last twenty thirty years so hacking originally started as computer scientist playing on other computer scientists so the very first computer virus was done in an academic lab that was called the cookie monster virus and it would go on. Somebody's computer and it was started. Saying i want a cookie and it wouldn't go away. He in that was a cookie and then it would come back an hour. Later in say guinea was that level of stuff and then the first commercial one was called the pakistani brain virus and this happened in islamabad. Two brothers did it first real computer attack and then they got caught because they were so worried someone would steal their software. They put a copyright notice in the virus in even took a couple of weeks to find him. Because no one had seen it before or now at a point where rec- hacks happening for really three reasons one is it's about money it's ransomware away of extorting money from somebody. It's a big business. The second reason is intelligence collection. So that's a lot of what. China does for instance and its way of getting high tech information trade information and darasing information information. That's fundamentally wouldn't elegance agencies do this is just a good way of getting the third thing we've only seen a little bit of this is it could be an actual act of war. And there's only a couple of cases most of them involving russia if you involving us but in the future five years and years all were fair will have a significant cyber component. So we all lived through. Recently the colonial petroleum pipeline hack. How do we know who did it. And who actually turned off the gas well. The company turned off their own gas. Really from what i understand. It was the billing back office system so it wasn't affecting the flow of gas. It was affecting their ability to get paved the floor gas and they were concerned that the act would migrate from that system to another system or they were concerned they weren't going to get paid for the gas so regardless they turn off the line and then the media picked it up it blew up and you guys are in the west coast. I'm on the east coast. I'm not going anywhere this week. As i can't get gas in my it's still that bad in washington. Dc dot a single gas station as of yesterday was opening these. Oh my god so wait a minute. That wasn't because of the hack itself that was antibi- so colonial turned it back on again in a day or two. I don't remember the exact time but there's an east coast thing in new york or dc. The meteorologists predict the big snowstorm. Everybody goes to the grocery store wipes out all the toilet paper. The water mill the bread. It's like that it's panic. Where does that fit in your list of hacks where actually. Sometimes it's not the hack that screws this up but we we end up panicking ourselves creating our own monster. That's a really good point. The fuel shortage is not a hack. It's an indirect. Social consequence of all the hack did from my understanding is a normal ransomware. Act the organization that did a dark side the russian programmers. But they're not. As far as i know sanctioned by the government russia they hit fifty seven companies last year something like that including two sheba couple of months ago. This is their business model. They claim they had no idea. This was going to be an outcome. And they just saw colonia was just another company who had really probably pretty crappy security so they hit their system. Locked it up said if you want your system unlock. You need to give so much money. The colonial decks perhaps panicked overreacted. That apparently they did day and they paid a five million dollar ransom will. They haven't completely knowledge that. Did they pay it on bitcoin. Do no i'm sure so. You actually have somebody who is admitting to the hack who may or may not be working at the instruction of putin or the kremlin. How is there no accountability. How is there no penalty. Was there no process from here. That's a good question too because it brings up a lotta ancillary one is what's the jurisdiction with a cyber attack so in this particular as what i know is hackers were in russia. Were near russia. They were mostly russians but the hack was perpetrated from a server in new york state so they moved the software onto a cloud service that they bought in new york in they use that as the jumping points to attack colonial and probably other companies. What about the server in new york. Can't you identify companies like dark side and say you shouldn't be selling to people like that. Yeah they did. They got shut down within days on federal agency. Shut down try to suck some of the bitcoin money back but the problem is the world of international corporations is a very murky world. As you know. Jane it's that way for a reason because legitimate businesspeople liked to have shell companies offshore cross looked at the panama papers. That was a great example of all these shelves within shells within cheltenham jobs. So the hackers do something similar so you get some company. That's incorporated in new york with a couple of new yorkers is the executives and they want to open up an account with an ice ski wherever it was inactive or something they let him. Have it like windy. So the only reason they wouldn't is because somebody complains and that's what usually happens. What happens is white hat. Programmers companies like fire fireeye which is counter espionage switzer whitehead programmer to kinds of hackers. There's white hat and black and that comes from the cowboy movies. Okay so i would argue. I'm probably white had a white hat. Somebody who goes on shows and talks about things in uses their skills to al organizations companies are people blackouts are basically criminal. So let's tap into a couple of more hacks than i'm gonna ask you for some lessons. Learned let's go to the dc. Police department was hacked. And apparently even identity of st informants was exposed to tell us about that hack so there was a group called boop boop is a dark side. They're a ransomware organization and they attack the d. c. police department and this is common unfortunately city abon was hit last year in the same way except instead of locking to files they stole the files so we don't know how many files but actually we do because they dumped it. On the internet three days ago so there was about two hundred fifty gigabytes two hundred gigabytes and they ask for certain amount of money millions. Dc offered like a hundred thousand or so. They're ransomware guys. Said okay with as you can negotiate. You can always negotiate good to know. There's a whole bunch of people and their job. Now is cyber ransomware negotiator. Many them worker insurance companies. Some of them work for intelligence agencies or investigative agencies. Everything's negotiable if they already took the information they stole a made a public. Then what's the point of paying ransom. You don't but the next guy does. What do you mean the next guy so organized crime when they try to collect money on somebody. The guy doesn't pay 'em break his arms. They do it so his neighbor pays next line. It's setting a precedent. Let's hop over to the granddaddy. Showy david the solar winds hack which is widely been attributed to russia's svr intelligence agency russia's denied that of course and they said it was western powers who hacked solar wins. Gonna ask you to tell us what they mean by. Did we hack ourselves. Or what do they mean by that. But tell us about that hacking. Some lessons learned there. Okay well let me start with my opinion. And then i'll give you what i know the facts so my opinion is this is definitely a russian operation. I'm virtually certain of it in every intelligence person. I've talked to believes the same thing anything in particular that makes you so sure because it was done really professionally. Used zero day exploit the people hadn't seen most hacks are using somebody else's tolls. It's like your cat burglar. Nfo jaren pry bars. You borrow it from franson. That's how most hackers were these guys innovative this stuff. It was a new element to this fairly clever. It was very precise in. They didn't damaging if the solar winds had had been a ransomware out was alkali. This morning it would have been worth at least ten billion dollars. You listed some of the organizations in companies that got i know is four hundred twenty five fortune. Five hundred all ten major. Us allocations companies all five us accounting firms plus every branch of the military. So if these guys wanted to make money there was money to be made. They never asked for ransom going back to my earlier. Compartmentation of the. Why does this if they're not asking for money and they're not declaring war. They're collecting information. Who would want to collect that information. Russia china somebody else. You're kinda deducting because of the level of sophistication that it was likely one of those powers. It wasn't some really smart kidding. The basement someplace. That's an interesting word deduction it's very rare. That a big hack is actually detected. But i detected acted. I'm thinking of colombo. They very rarely are able to investigate it. You know it's like a tv's police procedural the guys always crimes that very rarely happens in in regular life cyber stuff like that too so you can deduce it but unless these people are complete idiots. There's no way to track them down. Because of the way the internet's a moment of your time a new podcast from kirk commedia currently twenty one years old and today like magic tended from her fingertips down to the beach. Take care of yourself because the world needs you and every do gutter. That asked about me was ready to spit on my drinks. Seniors facing feel like your purpose in your worth is really being from pierre. She buys walkie-talkies wonders to whom she should give the second humans. We never did. We never will just find rock. Climbing is that you can only focus on what's right now and so are american life begins. We may need to stay apart but let's create together available on all podcast platforms. Submit your piece at kirk. Oh dot com slash moment of your time. Do we have a way to track what has been stolen especially from the department of treasury and homeland security commerce state. Do we know what information has changed. Hands i have no inside information that i would speculate from what i've read. Probably not the organization that did it was probably fancy beer. Which is a sanctioned russian government hacking group. And we're not talking five guys eating cheetos. We're talking hundreds of people in more than one laboratory office around russia. This is part of their government so it looks like that. It just feels like that. They're like the green berets there. Like an outfit the military so there's fancy barron cozy bear. There's a couple of others and that's what we call them. I don't think they call himself. Apd twenty eight. The really scary thing in my mind is that they might have left back doors for later. They can put software contracts. That can't be discovered somewhere in a system in treasury or whatever and then later they can exploit that like let's say we went to war with russia may not a big nuclear war but like over the ukraine or stony on the. This might be one of the first things we would see in warfare is all of a sudden these trojans trojan horses what we call them that have been installed during this particular app. The solar winds at all of a sudden lights up comes to life. It was like the tv show the americans were they put the sleepers in place for twenty years and then they activate them. It's exactly like that on the internet. So if you were managing the technology and security groups in these federal organizations what would you do to try to eliminate that door issue. I would burn this system to the ground and start over. That's what i was advised earlier with viruses on my computer said there's some viruses that the only way you can be a one hundred percent sure of getting rid of them is to just wipe out your system and install an entire new system. So is that what you're saying. Yeah so back in years ago. When i worked for an essay we were putting a new embassy building in moscow on the soviet union. The time and then it came to light that the soviets did embedded microphones into the concrete poured the concrete. The building was half done. We toured the building down and started over at a different site with different construction people. What do you see david as any culpability on solar winds part. What do they do first of all and he was an interesting thing is on the internet last night as i was preparing for the show apparently a number of the shareholders cashed in the night before the news of the breach came public. Yeah i saw that. Ceo's ugliest one. But i'm not sure and the ceo has resigned. None of that does us any good. They cast in the night before it became public but after they knew about it right they weren't involved in it. No as far as i can tell the company knew that they had announced it during the Time some of the insiders stumped there. Let me ask you the other side of this. 'cause it sounds like a lot of really scary hacks that you've described and i'd love it if i had heard from you a lesson that we learned from these acts but it sounds like we're still learning as we go. Can i just ask the tough question. Sure what is the us doing. Are we just as guilty or just as sophisticated a set of hackers as russia or china or israel. Well again this is just my belief. My belief is that we have the best cyber intelligence on an offensive capability in the world. Certainly up there. With israel. Israel russia the united states secondarily china couple of other countries. But remember anything that we had would be a weapon that would be equivalent to hydrogen. It would be highly classified so as an example when back in the sixties we had a program called the youtube airplane that was the gary powers. that thing was secret and the organization that were that ran that was called the or the national reconnaissance office and then they started putting up satellites for thirty years. It was a felony. If you even mentioned that agency existed even though powers of machado down. Everybody knew we were putting on spy satellites. Everything about that program was absolutely pitch black classified. So i would assume the anything that was cyberwarfare like somebody can press a button. In putin's iphone blows up knocks office year. I'm just guessing that we can do that. But if we could do anything like that that would be pretty classified stuff. You wouldn't hear about it. The only way he would know would be. If a guy likes like snowden example was a whistle blower in snowden did actually reveal a lot of this stuff. If you look at some of the things don't talk about was pretty. Low level stuff mostly snowden talked about an awful lot of kepa. Gold's david in today's world. You think things can be kept as confidential as they could back in the fifties and sixties. That's a social question. No i don't actually. We've been pretty tough. I mean when you look back in twenty sixteen two thousand seventeen. It was that young woman military woman who work it and say name was enough reality winner. She's the one who expose some political stuff that i won't go into. She still in jail so the penalties are harsh. If snowden were to come back to the united states. I would assume that they would put him in jail on. Throw away the key. There's one other problem too. In that trump we know publicly. Trump revealed information to the russians were there compromises in our intelligence information. I'm sorry what jane would. It had wet. What did you say there was that one meeting. Where trump gave the russians. I think it was the russian basseterre to the us at the time and their minister of foreign affairs he gave them information. That was highly classified. I think it had to do with intelligence coming. From the israelis that's documented and there were other cases where somebody took pictures of orlando and he was sitting with a bunch of i think those japanese businessman. He had spread documents on the table. All kind of security martin's all over it but he's the president. I mean it was the president all security. Classification is a pyramid in a tip of the pyramids. The president states. That's why jared kushner by the security clearance when everybody involved in the process said. Don't give them one so he has the right legal right to do that. So i guess the concern will just not know what happened but the concern is whether during his presidency. A lot of our top intelligence information was compromised with the russians. I'm sure it was but that's a political. It's a political statement from both of you just finished second. This is called. Meet me in the middle. So i wanna i wanna push back here. Do we have any actual proof that any sensitive information especially about our cyber capabilities was passed the russians. Now let's move on. Then you had said the other day david. The most powerful in the world hacking was Russia in the usa. And you also mentioned israel. I was actually surprised at that. Most good cryptography offer. Decryption offer is israeli made when we had an incident several years ago in the fbi needed a break iphone. It was a legal issue. In apple refused to cooperate. they Hired in israeli company broken. Today's so these are there's guys are good. There are other countries that are good. The iranians are not that bad. The pakistanis shockingly are not that bad. Great britain's okay. United kingdom's okay frances. Okay canada's not particularly good. It's about the people in the money that they spend in doing it. But the united states we have a thing called cyber command and cyber command is. It's like a military force. There are a lot of people working for cyber. I don't think anybody knows how many i'm sure there's thousands maybe tens of thousands interesting. Well we're gonna take thirty second break david when we come back i wanna ask you about an expression you use the other day. You said the words zero day on medicine. Where still practicing joined dr steven tailback and bill kurtis for real conversations with the medical professionals who have their finger on the pulse of healthcare in the modern world available on all your favorite pod casting platforms produced by kirk media david expressions zero day. What what was that all about. So this is a technical term. That's used ascribe. The value of an exploit in exploit is like an unknown bug that enables someone to hack into something. So there's a huge market for these things and some of them are not on the dark web. Some of the. There's a company in san francisco. That's a public company. That sells these things. So the zero day art refers to the number of days since the company that makes software found out. They had a problem. There's like one day to day and day thirty day. The reason they enumerated that way is because of the value of the exploit goes down a lot based on how many days the companies had to work on fix zero day exploit basically need that. The company doesn't even know that this is a problem. So depending on the value of the target describes the value of the exploit zero debt and there's auction houses a stop so as you're exploit microsoft product like windows office is maybe fifty seventy five thousand dollars as zero day. Exploit for an iphone. Last was over a million and a half dollars. Why is zero day on an iphone so valuable because the iphone is better protected than any microsoft prada. But why would it mean more money to because it's harder to find because they're scarcer. But how could they make more money off of his. What i'm saying. It's easy to find megan by microsoft. Act it's really difficult to find. Make good by apple. So you may have like a thousand microsoft tax only to apple hacks so it's supply and demand so the price goes up. Is it safe to assume then that you're saying that if they used apple products i'm safer. Yeah you are no question about it for now. I mean that's probably not always going to be true but it is now so the The other thing i wanted to point out is kind of interesting. The number one purchaser the zero day. Exploits is the united states government. They are by far the number one urges releasing 's followed by other nation states in then coming behind the hackers. Why that's how we build out our offensive capability a zero day exploit is like having a tomahawk missile in your arsenal. It's an offensive. Move not a defensive move. Well it could be either but usually it's an offensive move absolutely so there was a legend. Going around during the gulf war is turned out. It wasn't true but everybody thought it was in the rumor. Was that the seals at work within a but a virus into a chip into a trainer and then sold the printer to iraq and then when they interrupt the network it took down the radar systems l. This as far as i know this is an urban legend. It's never been proved but that's exactly the thing you're going to see the next real war and so if you have zero days there a weapon that nobody knows about interesting. Okay so the stocks. Ned myers was i think israel is actually claimed responsibility for this if they have an insurance them anyway but israel reportedly manufactured virus that destroy. Uranium's dinner few just in iran. This is like the most masterful act of all time off until the solar winds act which apparently is more technical and more intricate. If i understand this correctly it was a type of virus. That actually did absolutely nothing to anything until it found these centrifuges right. That's exactly what it did and then what it did. Is it kind of like if you've ever had a really nice or it's are the to drive then you had someone else driving. And then he shifted like in the wrong gear and everybody in the art like mixed at face. That's what it did. The centrifuges just like the centrifuges like literally blew up. But it was like laser targeted they propagated who a music system or download on a music system. Some guy who worked at the centrifuges Downloading it somehow plugged it in somewhere where he worked ads. You know sometime later. In the virus hop pop top around the network in it was after it was specific kind of equipment. It was a siemens refuge. When it found it was in one of those it went to work. It was laser targeted with all countries. Having such sophistication is this. The the new mutual assured annihilation this kind of like a nuclear war where people are holding off the worst to each other or is what we're seeing basically the most sophisticated and dangerous hacks so far. The stuff in the arsenal is probably an order of magnitude or two orders of magnitude more devastating. So one of the problems here is that we don't have as far as i know. No we don't we don't have any public or official treaty that defines what the boundaries of warfare in cyberspace are. There's been a lot of talks about it. I know drafted some treaties. I'm not sure what the legal status is. But i don't think it's legitimate. So the the problem is each country has to decide for itself. What is in fact. An act of war. I've listened the us policy experts in the government. The way they they say this look we. We have no hard and fast guidelines but the rule of thumb is what they call. Connecticut esscalation so kinetic escalation real world problems. So if you hack a computer and you destroy all the data. That's not an act of war. If you have a computer in shots off all the intensive gary beds or it makes a damn up. Sleds kills thousands of people or it blows up the power grid that term is what's called connecticut escalation that is considered to be inactive war. So then the question is do in this. The problem. imagine president biden's dealing with. Now what do you do when you've been hacked you from missiles athem do you do something. Equivalent to the american people like there no ramifications to messing with our elections the solar winds. Hack messing around with the pipeline. We've heard a lot about these hacks. We just haven't heard a lot of retaliation on our partner. Maybe it's happening. we don't hear about it. yeah. I don't know if you ever read like john licari books about the war and all that i mean there was a lot of this stuff wasn't cyber it was like you kill mice by alco yours. I was all the sub rosa hundred abel's presumably. There's a lot going on right now. There is mean. Even the government's admitted there is cyber retaliation that they take that they don't make public the. Us government has admitted in the past. They have good software devices into the russian power grid. They publicly that but if they've admitted that there's probably a million things they have committed. Well i think the biden administration even said that they're going to retaliate against russia for the hack of the election but not going to say what it is. It could be financial sanctions to. Let's go bomb. It did so. Let's say you're biden and somebody hacks like like the solar wind acts what are you do. I mean you don't launch a missile attack against moscow. You don't kill a human intelligence agent. I would assume the appropriate response would be something inclined. So i would assume you would take down. You know hack. All of their computers down their power grid. That's what i would assume happen. And then we would read about it and then we would. Yes we're doing it a lot of guessing. Here's what we think would be. It's possible we actually don't have the capabilities that we think we do the. Us government does have that capability and they have done it. I was an advisor to the air force. A one point we. We absolutely do have cable roy. The question is will we use it. How we used it in under what conditions would be used it again because the only thing that has prevented a nuclear holocaust that devastates our home planet is the idea that it's mutually assured destruction. Is that our best defense here. So why wouldn't take out the dc metro system tomorrow morning in. Just screw up all the traffic because we're gonna do that to moscow on. He knows that there's no other ramifications against him. The only other than we give do is lock up his personal bank accounts. There isn't a lot we can do. Here is not a inadequate situation. If putin invades ukraine again then we could potentially put troops on the ground airplanes overhead or we could fight a surrogate wore. Like we've been doing in syria and other places. The new short destruction scenario is what. I'm describing connecticut when it gets to the real world where people start dying started. Exploding then all bets are off in. That's a full-scale escalation. I don't think anybody wants so. I wanna quote from the other day. You said with systematic attacks on supply chains critical infrastructure. It only takes one misstep to produce a catastrophic collateral damage or real human casualties. It will happen. It's kind of an interesting analogy because you know back in the cold war era. We've heard stories in the last twenty years now about how close we actually aimed at. Destruction was a failsafe plane. In turn back there was a printer. Jam it was on a russian guy a soviet guy. Have you heard about this chain. I i watched the documentary and there was a soviet guy who basically stopped a world war three because there was an air showing a missile going into russia and he judged that it was an air and not the real thing but it was a lot of pressure on him. Sounds like a good movie. He unilaterally chose not to launch a missile against the united states. We're moving into the same scenario. Except this time everything's digital right. I was clinton's why two gay committee representing the internet was a task force committee twenty years ago but the thing that came out of it is even back then. I'll incredibly vulnerable the united states infrastructure. Was this kind of stuff. And that was twenty years ago and they have not to. My knowledge excessively hardened the infrastructure as we wrap up. Because we're running out of time on this episode as we wrap this up. I wanna give you a quote that came from world politics review. They said despite wave after wave of russian sponsored cyber attacks on the us and its allies washington still apparently lacks the political will to defend against this russian aggression. That's a great quote because what you just said means. It was political. Well that's the concern. The whole thing about the mutually assured destruction in the nuclear arsenals is. There was a process where people were trained to react a certain way to a certain threat. If somebody set off a weapon there was just head of an undeniable process that everybody would go through and our world would change as we know it here. There's a political will issue and perhaps we need to practice and train and have policies. That are somewhat more predictable. There's one other factor in that bill. Power is in part perception. And you're at the peak of your power when you don't have to take action because the perception is that you're that powerful so there's a balancing act between how much power you then exercise in response of an attack and how much you've done. One of the reasons mutually assured destruction work avert a cold. War was because of transparency. Nothing was hidden. Everybody knew exactly. What the triggers. If soviet union in the united states a grasp in a certain manner they knew there would be retribution. because they have been told there would be retribution. that is not happening in the cyber world yet. That's probably the next step so the next step would be for the white house or somebody to say we now consider this an act war or if you do this we will do this. You have to say and then you have to do it. Israel basically does that so we have not that statement would be a powerful statement. And then you go to a peace treaty. Somewhere like indiana or iceland and then everybody sits down for three months table and they come out with. I'm sure this happens. There's gonna be a star talk assault talks and they're gonna come out with is going to be there the it'll be a cyber thing in that. Document will basically define the rules of the road in the intelligence agencies. We used to call this rules of engagement. And the people who have to deal with this now. The drone dies because the drone guys are like rate on the edge of at a war and they've been given very explicit rules of engagement so when they blow somebody up in a car you can bet that a lotta other people signed off on all of that being said. I'm looking forward to that three month. Sit down you just described where we come out of it with an understanding worldwide and get this thing under control. All we've succeeded in doing frankly is making me have to go home and change my pants. That's it for part one of our hacked. Show david thank you. How do people follow you if they wanna know more about this stuff. I have a website at local v dot com jello hail. He hoped he is victor. I am on twitter at the global. Pov jane of course. Thank you as well. The produce certain editor for meet me in the middle of joey salvia music for the show is composed and performed by celestin. Eric dick executive producer is stored halpern. And we'll be back next week with part two of hacked where we're going to talk to david about cyber risks for each of us personally and exposures at the company level. We'll see next week everybody. Don't forget the hit the follow button and don't click on any strange emails room. Kirk oh media media for your mind.

russia united states department of treasury david east coast snowden new york airforce marines bill curtis jane albrecht david holtzman us naval security group general wesley switzer whitehead Showy david putin Nfo jaren franson
Pay Taxes Less Frequently? We're Interested...

The Indicator from Planet Money

09:55 min | 2 months ago

Pay Taxes Less Frequently? We're Interested...

"N. p. r. Hey stacy i want to tell you a really sad story about a federal agency that's under-funded it is the irs. It is very difficult to feel bad for the irs. For me to just give the higher as a chance. I mean it's understandable but the irs does have to have its budget approved by congress. It's kind of like the unloved stepchild of federal agency. So if you look at a graph of the irs budget in real dollars it looks kind of like a sledding hill about to go it was up at about fifteen billion dollars and it goes way down hill and it plateaus at around twelve billion today. Actually though this is truly problematic because the irs is how our country pays for things defense social security medicare all of that requires money from the irs and right now the ira is so underfunded. It is not able to operate efficiently. A couple of years ago things got so bad that the irs received almost one hundred million phone calls and only answered one third of them. Seventy million unanswered calls. Sally seventy million calls. This is the indicator from planet money. I'm stacey vanik. Smith i'm sally herships. All those calls. Don't just mean a ton of grumpy people not getting their questions answered. It also means there are not enough auditors making sure that people are paying taxes they owe president biden has a plan to pump billions of dollars into the irs. Too short up and help it do its job. There may be a simpler solution. One that does not require more funding and we might have to file our taxes every year. More about this magical sounding idea after the break. I like where this is going. This message comes from. Npr sponsor microsoft teams helping priority. Bicycles transformed the way they work. When the pandemic hit they started doing virtual visits teams now people worldwide can come into their showroom more at microsoft dot com slash teams. This message comes from. Npr sponsor culture rail ibs symptoms can be tough to manage with diet alone and cultural ibs complete support. A medical food for the dietary management of ibs is designed to help use promo code radio on coach. Arale dot com. So this idea. It comes via a working paper from the university of southern california. The paper's authors say it would save the irs end us the taxpayers. A combined eighty three billion dollars a year. And here's the theory get ready. It dump dumped it. It's called biennial but we're just going to say by annual because we weren't math majors. What it means is that we pay our taxes not once a year but once every two years you had me at every two years. Emma cockerel is one of the co authors of the paper. I guess we'll start with kind of why this idea is needed. There's kind of three prongs of the proposal but before we let 'em walk us through how paperwork a few things you should know about her. She's a student at the university of southern california. She studied economics and math. She uses words like gaff when she emails me and she started writing this paper when she was nineteen. What the three-pronged paper so your normal twenty year old. Who just happened to write a paper about the irs. Pretty much yeah. I have to ask something if you're twenty. Have you paid taxes yet. I have yes emma. I got interested in the idea of biannual tax filing as sophomore when her economics professor jeffrey toobin shared the theory with her. It was already out there. It had first been proposed in nineteen ninety-seven and she got really fired up win. Her professor told her there was evidence that biannual tax filing could help the irs. Be more efficient. She got cracking as one does to understand how paying our taxes. Every two years could actually help save money. You have to understand what emma and her professor say our three main problems with our current tax system. I the irs is overstretched. It's vastly underfunded so really. It's an agency. That's forced to perform more with fewer resources. Like with all those phone calls. Some of those people might have been calling to clarify whether or not they owed money to the irs and just gave up but if all those taxpayers had two years to file the irs would have more time to answer all those phone calls and then next week at two audits. That's when the irs gets all up in your business or its business really you to make sure that you're paying your fair share. You know you're not being creative within numbers. Yes and emma says because of budget cuts are fewer auditors today than it any point since world war two so the rate at least for middle and lower class americans tends to be really low. Which of course does not sound that bad to me since i have been audited and it was terrible for two thousand fifteen which is the latest year. That data is available. For the rate. It fluctuates around point. Five percent which is crazy and solo so again if the irs had two years instead of just one waymo more time to do audits. More time to collect our money emphasis. Were also not auditing enough. People the problem is that tax returns for the wealthy are complicated and the irs agents. Who do those audits require more training. So if you did audits every two years argues you would have more time for that training and the irs would be able to double its audit rate and potentially bring in billions more. It could also solve one of the potential problems. Thought of when i first heard about this paper which is what is the government. Do to get over that hump here the first time. It has to wait an additional year to collect all that money and the answer. Is you wait because there is going to be an epic payoff but sally. We've been focusing on the irs. So let's talk about us. There is another perspective here and this is problem number. Three emma says because filing our taxes has become so complicated. It cost us the taxpayers. A lot of time and money and annexed to do our taxes and the federal government actually tracks. How long it takes. The government actually publishes burden hours of each government agency burden hours. This is very aptly named these. Are the number of hours that americans spend gathering and sending the government information that has asked for you know for drivers license renewal or a passport. We spend most of those burden hours on taxes in total government burden hours or about eleven point five nine billion of this eleven point five nine billion eight point. One billion is from the department of treasury. The irs is a bureau within the treasury. So if you put a price tag on that time. Ms paper estimates it comes out to seventy seven billion dollars in lost time and wages and paying accountants so if we pay our taxes every two years instead of one we could save billions. Which sounds great. But i did have some questions and is there any concern about for people who really need their returns if they file every two years instead of every one year i mean i know there are people who are desperate to get that money back with that. Be a problem for them. Essentially it would be really easy to give low. Income earners their their refunds before they even file their taxes. According to the tax policy center thirty six countries around the world including germany japan and the united kingdom already have systems in place. Which would make it really easy to automatically issue those refunds. That system is called return free filing and it basically means that taxpayers do not have to do anything they don't have to file a return. Those governments just withhold taxes. It is automatic. And emma says the reason we haven't seen return free filing in the states is just as a private sector lobbying tax prep is a hugely profitable industry but besides powerful private sector lobby interests stacey. Emma says it does not have to be this way. We do not have to pay taxes every year. There's no real like legal or economic reason for annual tax reporting. And if you go back and look at the history of taxation there. Instances of biennial taxation in rome. Wait a minute. Is this an ancient rome. Ancient rome us actually. The romans taxed once every three years even better in fact sally. Apparently one of the reasons that rome fell was because of oppressive taxation too many burden hours so biannual taxes could really be a win win and who knows by annual tax filing might even mean the irs could answer all of those calls. This episode of the indicator was produced by jamila huxtable with engineering by gilead. It was edited by. Kate cod canon and the indicator is a production of npr. Our representatives are still helping other customers. Please continue to old today. It seems like everybody's got a bone to pick with the news. So what happens when somebody stops talking smack and just decides to wage all out war first thing you do in an invasion you eliminate the communications that our enemy and what happens if they win. Visit stockton california for a story about a revolt against the mainstream media that shaken up a city from npr visibility a-.

irs emma Sally seventy stacey vanik sally herships president biden university of southern califor Emma cockerel microsoft stacy jeffrey toobin ira Npr medicare Npr congress department of treasury Smith
'Auntie Maxine' Waters Gets Ready To Take On The Banks As House Panel Chair

NPR's Business Story of the Day

04:03 min | 2 years ago

'Auntie Maxine' Waters Gets Ready To Take On The Banks As House Panel Chair

"Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from internet essentials from Comcast. Connecting more than six million low income people to low cost high speed internet at home. So students are ready for homework class graduation and more. Now, they're ready for anything democratic congresswoman, Maxine Waters of California is one of President Trump's fiercest critics. She has repeatedly called for his impeachment and now with Democrats taking control of the house waters is expected to head the powerful financial services committee. This position is going to enable waters to slow down Trump's banking agenda and also delve more deeply into his company's finances. NPR's Jim zarroli reports Maxine Waters is a political firebrand unafraid to talk back to anyone here. She was on the house floor during a debate about discrimination and auto lending and don't talk to me about the fact that we don't understand what happens on the. No, no, I will not get and the eight year old lawmaker became an. Internet Meam, thanks to exchanges like this one. With Treasury Secretary. Steve Mnuchin the department of treasury has cooperated extensively with the Senate Intel committee with the house same time with the Senate Judiciary time waters confrontational style has earned her the loathing of President Trump who disparaged her as having a low I q a remark widely condemned as racist. She was one of a handful of Trump critics who were mailed pipebombs last month that has only made her double down on her attacks. She drew criticism when she told supporters not to be afraid to harass Trump administration officials if they see them in public waters work on the financial services committee has attracted less attention, but it has earned her admirers such as Mike cow Hoon of the center for responsible lending. She is a tough and savvy defender of consumer protection and whole. Towards the feed of the banks and the Trump administration regulators to the fire waters has positioned herself on the committee as the voice of the little people quizzing bankers about the impact of their policies on small businesses and homeowners she earned the nickname, anti Maxine. Now, she's in line to head the committee in a recent speech waters, talked about the huge wave of foreclosures in the great recession and the massive consumer fraud at banks such as Wells Fargo, and she warned the banks. She wasn't about to go easy on them. What am I gonna do to you? What I'm gonna do to you. What you did to us in fact with congress divided. There's a limit to what waters can accomplish legislatively, but she can't hold hearings. Ian, Katz of capital alpha partners says she can haul regulators in bankers before the committee and shine a light on issues. She cares about she can't pass laws. She can make a Bank executive. And some of the regulators appointed by Trump, very uncomfortable and create some awkward moments for them. Cats points out that Trump has embarked on a major effort to deregulate banking. He says waters can make that more difficult. She can't necessarily change with they're going to do change the regulations, but she could slow things down. She can also turn up the heat on Trump waters has already been a fierce critic of Deutsche Bank, which has been one of the few big banks willing to lend money to Trump's businesses. She was asked about the Bank on Bloomberg TV last week. And we know that Dutch Bank is a dentist by as one of the biggest money laundering banks, you know, in in the world, perhaps. And that they're the only ones who were you know, a amenable to providing loans to this president. So we wanna know somethings about that waters is quick to say the committee will look at other issues too. But her new role will give her the resources to look into. How Trump's businesses are financed. And she's made clear she's more than. Willing to do that. Jim zarroli, NPR news, New York.

President Trump Maxine Waters Trump Senate Intel committee Deutsche Bank Dutch Bank Jim zarroli Comcast president NPR NPR Senate Judiciary Mike cow Hoon New York Steve Mnuchin department of treasury California
NPR News: 01-19-2021 9AM ET

NPR News Now

04:39 min | 6 months ago

NPR News: 01-19-2021 9AM ET

"Live from npr news. Korva coleman parts of washington. Dc are on alert a day ahead of the presidential inauguration. Npr's windsor johnston reports. This follows the deadliest at the capital. Nearly two weeks ago federal authorities continued to tighten security in and around the nation's capital expanding road closures and restricting traffic. In the downtown area the fbi continues to vet members of the national guard amid fears of potential violence. Ahead of the inauguration. Up to twenty five thousand troops are expected to be stationed throughout the city including the areas around the us capitol building by wednesday npr's windsor johnston president elect. Joe biden is going to nominate. Dr rachel levine as assistant. Us health secretary she has led pennsylvania's response to the pandemic and is a professor of pediatrics. And psychiatry at penn state levin is also openly transgender several biden nominees will have confirmation hearings today including his choices to lead the department of treasury defense homeland security and the director of national intelligence. And npr's michele keleman reports the senate foreign relations committee meets to consider the nominee for secretary of state. Tony blinken a former. Deputy secretary of state blinken goes way back with biden. He was a staffer on the senate foreign relations committee. When biden was chairman. And he says he wants to help the new administration restore america's place in the world because america at its best still has a greater ability than any other country on earth to bring others together to meet the challenges of our time. And that's where the men and women of the state department foreign service officers civil servants. That's where they come in. Lincoln is a french speaker who went to high school in paris. His father was an ambassador to hungary and his stepfather was a holocaust survivor who was rescued by african american. Gi michele kelemen npr news. Washington president elect joe biden and vice president. Elect kamla harris will attend a ceremony on the national mall late today. To honor the nearly four hundred thousand people who have died of covid nineteen in the us in brazil. Trucks carrying emergency supplies of oxygen are expected to arrive in the city of manaus today. Npr's philip reads reports. The trucks have come from neighboring venezuelan. Venezuelan president nicolas madura sent the oxygen to the rainforest city of bananas after surge of covid cases calls the health system to collapse. Oxygen supplies ran so short last week. That patients died of suffocation in their hospital beds. The state governor says the situation is now under control yet. Media reports suggest it remains precarious madero dispatched six oxygen tanker trucks. Even though venezuela's health system is in deep disarray for him. This is an irresistible propaganda. Victory at the expense of his political foe brazilian president jacob bolsonaro who's facing intense criticism for them analysis disaster breathes. Npr news regional. You're listening to npr news. The head of the us census bureau is resigning. Stephen billingham has quitting nearly a year before his term expires. The bureau's internal watchdog determined dilling him tried to improperly pressure workers to write a report related to president trump's executive order on citizenship data. Critics say the report would have been flawed and indefensible. The premiere of the canadian province of alberta says he is deeply concerned by reports. President elect joe biden. Plans to block the keystone. Excel oil pipeline. Npr's jeff brady reports premier. Jason kenney says the canadian province may pursue legal action the alberta government invested a billion and a half dollars in the pipeline last year and agreed to six billion in loan guarantees this year the pipeline is important to the province because it would transport oil sands crude down to the gulf coast where it can be sold on the world market for higher prices but that crude has a bigger carbon footprint than just about any other kind of oil it requires more processing. Joe biden will office with an ambitious climate plan. And he's vowed to block the pipeline premier kenney says in a statement that alberta will quote use all legal avenues available to protect its interest in the project jeopardy. Npr news russian leader. Alexei navalny has urged his supporters to turn into the streets in protest. He was arrested at moscow area airport. When he returned to russia this week he had been in germany for months recuperating from poisoning attack that he blamed on russia. The kremlin rejects the allegation. A russian judge has ordered navalny to be jailed for thirty days. This is npr.

windsor johnston senate foreign relations commi npr news biden Korva coleman Dr rachel levine joe biden department of treasury Npr national intelligence michele keleman Tony blinken npr blinken Us michele kelemen kamla harris nicolas madura Npr news national guard