7 Episode results for "Denver Fort Collins"
Building a More Diverse and Inclusive Academia With Shaz Zamore
"Welcome to episode one hundred of the up beach st podcast in a lot of the conversations. I've had in past interviews here on the show we talked about how academia and graduate school need to change for the special episode. I'm bringing you a conversation during which i got a glimpse at what that changed can loop like with this week's guest chas. The more we dove into the current diversity and inclusivity challenges facing academia today and into how addressing them can change the face of science and research. I started to realize that my there was nobody to look forward to to say. Okay this is how you do it. This is what the decision is. Because what i wanna do is not really something that's been done before Not exactly otherwise. Why am i doing and so it stops being looking ahead and seeing who's advanced who's further. Who's better who can tell me things and start looking to the side. And saying who's doing something different power. They accessing their paths of success. Howard bay managing their work life balance. How are they succeeding cooler. Who are my allies. Who are who are people who i feel safe around as we move forward together. Welcome to pop up each with david. Mendez the podcast where we explore careers and life after grad school with guests who have walked the road less traveled and have unique stories to tell about how they made their place in the world of constantly evolving rules. Get ready to go off the beaten path and hop on for an exciting new episode of papa phd. Welcome to today's episode of papa peachy today with me. I have has more chaz neuro- engineer and steam coordinator at cu boulder looking to revolutionize access to steam learning hsieh's creating innovative interactive tools aimed at intersectional minorities middle school students outside of work. Chaz has a penchant for creative. Coding snowboarding baking bread and woodworking. Welcome to apiece says. Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. It's good to be here. I'm super happy to have you here. And i think it's it's not going to be difficult for listeners. To consider the idea that diversity is is a very present question in our society. And i think it's something we'll have to focus in the near future and then going forward and that's why i'm super super excited to have you here because This is something that is very close to your heart and that you work on. And i think it's going to be really interesting to have this conversation because i've i've just recently a day. We're recording published an interview for example about a woman in academia and you know having kids etc etc and inclusivity is something that i think the the field the team feels gain with. But there's there's a culture that may comes from far behind. That has some resistance to this change and this why. I'm really really happy to have you here today to talk about this. I'm i'm so excited to talk about it. It's such a. it's a cool time. Now to see it being brought to the forefront and seeing so many institutions really taking it seriously and really trying to take risks dec- how they can make these changes in start to integrate a little bit more and so yeah. I think about it a lot. I work at pretty much. Twenty four seven in all these different avenues. I'm really excited to get into it. Yeah so to begin. Maybe just give a little introduction of who you are as a neural engineer. What's what is it that you do. And specifically i would really love you to also give a view of what you do relating to this aspect of of inclusion and diversity and also you mentioned that you see things happening around you. I love you to share a little bit about that too absolutely so i'm chas aka dr z. by pronouns are them nonbinary I am a narrow engineer. I work at the atlas institute which is a creative tech institute at cu boulder and as narrow engineer. I like to build design fantasize gadgets that will augment or help explorer our nervous systems work And so primarily. I've most recently. I should say. I've been using a vr and three d gaming platforms like unity three d to create these tools for exploring vision and other scientific explorations so kind of taking these tools. That are amazing. In powerful people are using them really entertainment and catering them designing them for a more scientific exploration. I came to this path quite. Interestingly i really love neuroscience i have a phd neuroscience. But i i realize looking back at my all of my projects. The part that i did the best was coming. Up with the experimental setup building wind tunnels making these vr arenas All sorts of devices building devices making all sorts of designing my own circuits writing my own code really creating the environment And then moving forward thinking about where. I can actually make an impact in some progress. That was really it. It wasn't really so much. What's the assessment that i can make. It's what's the tools. I can build heavily. Best answer this question which leads really nicely into diversity and inclusion which is kind of so one half of my job is creative. Portion making all of these tools and gadgets for exploration in learning neuroscience learning neuroscience learning about how our bodies work and then the other half is helping atlas institute get better integrated in various levels of community so integrated through cu boulder integrated in the tech community. That's burgeoning in the boulder. The front range areas that's boulder denver fort collins and then Also integrates in in the general public. Where what's our online presence like. What are we doing in the actual physical community And boulders a really interesting place to do this Colorado's really interesting place to do this. Because it's demographics are not very. It's more typical for the south west but not typical of the like the demographic of the country Where we see. The the largest minority group in colorado is out Latino x. community and then. There is a pretty sizable asian pacific american pacific islander community. And then there's a fairly small black community and of course a very small indigenous community. It's a different shift where a lot of people tend to Reach for the needs of Black communities which they absolutely shed cure the target in what people have been working on and looking at. Who's around us has been linked the latino community which is a whole wealth of problems to solve for me. Which is it's a fun. It's a fun way to expand and see what's out there So i'm integrated thinking about diversity all of the time with my Very brand new company create. I'm making these informal stem kits that and comics that feature kids from really their kids from the hood. Their kids from all over look like all different. You know. there's a muslim character is character in a wheelchair We have a single parent household. We really just trying to get a an image of what my childhood was really like and so now with cranny eight. I'm creating these tools that are kits that help these students that really are not included in the educational studies Which is a lot of. Lgbtq kids it's hard to find data on how lgbtq plus kids learn in the classroom especially in them who is in stem like like that. That data were not collecting that data as in general and low income other other minority groups Black indigenous pacific islander latina Just trying to make something for them by them and see what what is your version of stem. And how does it show up in your life. And what are the problems that stem helps you solve. And that that's really where where my heart lies is a long little flatter there but super super interesting and just a few days ago an episode came out. I believe your this american life and this guy was interviewed. He came from a black community. I think in chicago. And i don't remember exactly but he. He said that he had to change. It was a bit of code switching yet to even change his accent because in grad school well he was the only one coming from that demographic and he felt that he if he like. Let's say a journal club or whatever a meeting. He would just talk the way. He talked at home that he wouldn't be taken seriously eventually. He became a psychologist and he's well regarded cetera. But it's interesting to to think you know. How can you create tools and clearly. You're you're a maker type person right. You'd like to and people haven't heard of this but while we were in the green room. She talked about the workshop where there's woodwork stuff happening so it's interesting to see how you can apply different skills in different passions that you have at different levels in your life making things physically but then also solving problems in the community. I really really loved that and and cartoons and and Comics for kids is clearly a way to reach them. And now i find this really interesting. And i imagine also that given the composition the demographic composition that you that you described earlier there must be also some cultural aspects to having access to how many of these kids are. Lgbtq no are they are they out are they not out might be depending on which community they come from that. There might be difficulties there too. I don't know if if there's something well in in what you do but that you see around you. That's helping also kids who are in this kind of a gray area to find resources that can help them find their tribe and and then also envision themselves in a position of olb researcher yes. I'll be a scientist. Yeah there's so many layers to to that point of the problem of accessing getting these kids in that the kids might identify. Lgbtq in the parents might anything doing with children. involved in adult rate in china In most cases and and so it's hard to and then the parents even if the parents are accepting of their child in support of their child. You're not sure if that communication travels all the way through. So there's it's a really challenging. It's something that just needs attention. It needs minds on the problem right but like that's that's more urban indicator of like. Oh we should pay more attention to this. Always put more energy effort money into this because there are so many problems with just finding out who getting the numbers. The starting point. It's already. it's already a problem just getting there. Yeah so so. I think my my solution to that is really just putting the content out there and then trying not to make it so that a student has to identify. Hasta name themselves to out themselves in order to get access to it is. It's a really. It's a confounding problem. Salaciously helps somewhat. Social media helps somewhat. There's there's enough independence. I think in social media for better for worse with With youth that you can get an idea of who's out there and what they're interested in without worrying about filters or negative impacts from from family And in a way. It's a parallel between what i'm trying to papa. Pg in what you just say what. You just mentioned. Which is you know in my case. I'm trying to have you know listener. Who finished maybe their. Phd can't envision themselves in the private sector in industry or in you know in something that is not the lab the see the of people who did it and that will kind of make it easier. Oh okay look like me. They sound like me and they're doing this thing. That is that is outside academia. Maybe i can look into that too. And i feel that the process that you meant the the or the thing that you're trying to do it's kind of that is they. Don't need to say anything but if you're reading something where someone who looks and sounds like them is doing. This is following this path. They can say oh you know what. I hadn't thought that i could be the this person in the and in the other part of that is is showing them almost that there aren't paths. It's just a field which way i firmly think that one of the biggest lives that we have ever been told is that we have to be one thing and i think it does a lot of people. Disservice i think especially does minorities in intersectional kids into service. Because i don't. I don't know a single. We're talking before we started recording about about code switching. And how people are you know you show up especially minority groups especially black tr- though the whole long list volume one year you behave and you act one way and then another spirit behaving you. Act another way but also comes with that is. You're doing different things. You're going to have different skills that you apply in this fear in code one and then you're gonna have a different skill set. You're applying in code to and nobody talks about how that helps you a career how that applies your And so i. It's also showing that there's so much out there. There's so much out there that you can do. An anyone of your skill sets. I mean especially scientists today we're also interdisciplinary trained at every everything kind of needs of the house. You can't do biology engineering for example as so we. We have the skill set. That's very very broad almost inherently and. Then we don't lean on it when it comes to thinking about careers because You know academia is buried the put blinders on and you're very narrow. Our myopic almost like can this is what you do with. This is the path that you go on instead of going. While i learned how to build a wind tunnel and i learned how some very solid basics on thermodynamic. Slow i can do this. I can go here. I've learned how to program. I'm really great with analytics. I can do this. I can go over here and then in my own hobbies at home i snowboard a lot. But let's say i'd each my all of my friends. I've taught them how to snowboard. Okay that's a pat. That's an option right there. So it's it's really employing your skillset as maximally as you can. It's an issue that you know people are now going through grad school or university compared even to like you or myself was even a little bit older. They know so much even in terms of no computers. All the old all this thing again. You mentioned twitter before just social media. Those are skills to and not only skills it's networking which at that age. I didn't have a network at all right. And now now it's so easy to to be on the platform like this and find the tribe and be in touch with people in the at the On the other side of. I really agree with you. This and through our parents. Our grandparents often had this thing of one career. And then there was a rolex retirement. And it's true that it's not a reality today anymore. It's through the because of globalization because of because of evolution of thinks. I really really agree now. We know we went over or you went clicky quickly over phd And and how you got interested in science and we talked also about diversity. The different demographics that are for example in colorado. Where you are. I i really. I really want to share. Maybe what if if you have seen changes between when you went through grad school or university and what you see happening today in terms of you know being a woman being a woman of color being being non binary woman of color. Can you talk a little a little bit about the good things that you're seeing happening and how they compared to maybe some experiences that you've had. Yeah yeah so so i. I did identify as women for most. I've always identified as gender queer. But like i've i've occupied women's spaces and had that experience for most of a career and i. It's it's a tough question so it's changed and it hasn't changed. There are definitely. I've seen a lot more top down. I've seen a lot more Administration and kind of structural changes that go in positions. The committee Just this focus on evaluating truly evaluating. How faculties students are are engaging in participating in diversity in in most importantly inclusive efforts which is a cultural shift Not just numerical ship. So i've seen a lot more of that and that's really great. I think it's feel personally. It might just be where. I am in my career and the kind of accolades. I have behind me at this point. But i feel much more comfortable speaking out when something is not okay than i did before I feel like even. If i was an i often am the only black person in the room and somebody says something and no pun intended off color. I feel like if i were to stand up and say something. My white colleagues would be in support rate. That's something that. I think certainly didn't happen to grad school for so that's nice. I like to see that. But then there's also i think we haven't quite had the collective realization about how much has to change War to to actually make a truly inclusive environment And so in that frame. There's kind of like at the individual level at at like the bottom up like who however we rallying to really care about that that's still lacking again because i think we frankly just don't sit down and have the practice of thinking about what the future is. What's it gonna look like. What's what's the classroom physically going to look like. what's lecture actually going to contain. How all of these things. It really sit down and quantify so much scientists as thinkers. But we're not sitting down to quantify what that actually what's it gonna look like. What the end result. How do we actually predict. There's no practice of that And so it's kind of like this. Big hand wavy gray mass. We're like yeah. We're making it better but you. You can't actually make it better if you don't have a goal in mind and so there we really need to see that progress still feels like we need to have some inclusiveness you x. specialist user experience versus to kind of model. What it's going to actually feel like for the for the users war in this case the the students. Yeah question are there. You've you've had to clearly from what you're saying deal with some some some difficulties some exclusion in or you know in your in your path. But were their strategies. Were there things you did or poor people in your path that that were helpful and that you can You know the yeah. They were helpful with that. And are there. Is there some advice for someone who's now at this institution or even in this group sometimes. It's just there's group dynamics writers group culture that is those somehow not so accepting and and that's that's difficult. Is there some advice you can give based on your experience of overcoming these obstacles and coming out stronger after yeah and my advice is echoed by research have a support group has abort group has support group having support group. Have people you can go and go back to your base code. Go back to that natural language. Drop your guard you know. Be yourself be really comfortable. You gotta have those the especially as any sort of minorities especially as intersectional a have your support group for intersectional people. I will acknowledge it. Super hard like for me. For example. Black spaces aren't always queer friendly spaces. Queer friendly spaces aren't always black friendly spaces as really hard thing to navigate. Still even if you're not fully relaxed even if you can't find a black. We are space for example at combination. Even those little bits that you get steps to single person even it goes so far There was one fellow who i think about as mentor. I can't i know his name is added. can't remember his last name but he was a new faculty. he was working in molecular biology at u. Dub i was in bio so we were in the same hallway and i would see him in the hallway. We kinda wave at each other walking by and then when he pulled me aside we just started chatting and anytime i saw him. We would just like stop in the hallway and chat for two or three minutes. Maybe we got a coffee and it was just this idea. It really created this sense of of of culture for meaning academia of what. I really nurtured a thing i needed. And it set the precedent right. Like here's someone. When i see someone frequently you're part of my community. I should have relationship with you to some degree and so in that that. That's someone that i think about a lot. That's a it's a behavior. I think about a lot. How can i bring that forward And i think things like that are also really important like looking at how people give you the cultural needs. Meet your cultural needs and how you can help that with some. Bring that to somebody else. I don't know about you. And i must say i enjoy all the interviews. I do but doing this conversation. Which as i felt so inspired and the funny thing is editing it afterwards in preparing the episode for the launch. I also felt this inspiration. And this positivity have after just listening to our conversation so. I hope you're enjoying this one today. And because we're talking of diversity in academia and inclusion inclusivity in academia. I'm going to ask you if you feel inspired. And if you can to go support platform that promotes diversity in academia. You can do so by going to kofi dot com forward slash diversity in academia. I'll drop the link in the show notes and by the mcafee or if you know of platforms around you promote diversity and these type of programs. Well go support them. Go see if they need help if they need a hand or if they need financial support. If that's what you can offer as was mentioning just before a lot of this has to do with culture with changing culture and changing culture takes a lot of work so any little help will be precious and actually feel free to reach out to me. If you have a inspiring organizations or or other types of fat forms that you think i could promote or support. And i'll add them to the shots of this episode. Thanks for being a listener and for your generosity and now let's go back to my conversation with chaz amore so it feels like this person saw you or saw something in you but at least didn't see you as your color didn't see you as how you dress there was some there was something that clicked and that that made that bridge of communication and often especially i'm thinking of grad school. You know we can be very career we know. Have this like tunnel vision of work in our tana's might not be turned out to these possibilities of creating bridges with other people and you mentioned having having in groups of of like minded people or or people in in your in your tribe. Let's say. And i think this is very important. It's it's funny. Because often. I meant i tell people if you like. I don't know science policy in create a group around science policy. But in hewitt's exactly the same thing but it's it's about about what your tribe is and where he can feel safe and lawyer guarded cetera. I think it's super super important. But you know you. You've mentioned the word mentor in mentor. Mentors are not easy for everyone to come by. But often it's a question of having your antennas turned out in in being and being receptive of the signal of okay. This person is seeing me and yep is is reaching out to me independently of all these tags that can be you know that that can define me to other people this is. I think this is an opportunity to to not to be missed. Yeah how you know. I don't know it's it's not. i'm. I'm having a hard time formula in this. Because i've really had i like talking about mentorship but half of the people especially going to grad school in stem haven't had someone. They consider a mentor in their in their path and then half of them do and i haven't been able to find it. Feels like part of. It is luck. But i think it's attention attention to to this signals. I don't know if you have a comment on that. Yeah yeah absolutely So i think i think part of the reason why question might be so hard is because i think it's hard to define what a mentor is an. Everybody has a different definition. I think generally look for a mentor as someone who can feel safe with. That's kind of priority one. He could be vulnerable around And who can. It's kind of like almost like a coach where they're they're guiding you but they're not you are you are independently growing your skillset with this little these little taps in nudges from this person you trust and so when you think about it in that definition it means that a mentor can beat anybody. And so i. I have clear and defined mentors especially going through my mind more traditional academic path my advisers. My faculty adviser is a cetera. People who are in like black scientists queer scientists people are kind of like in my identifying communities are identity communities and then once i once i left academia briefly in that came running back his works that way i started to realize that might there was nobody to forward to to say okay. This is how you do it. This is what the decision is. Because what i wanna do is not really something that's been done before not exactly otherwise. Why am i doing it and so it stops being looking ahead and who's advanced who's further. Who's better who can tell me things and start looking to the side saying who's doing something different however they accessing their path to success. How are they managing their work. Life balance however they succeeding cooler my allies. Who are who are people who i feel safe around as we move forward together. And that i like has really shifted how i would allow the networking. I make the decisions that i make I talked to a lot of young entrepreneurs like an to get advice. People who are just figuring out people who haven't registered their business yet all talking and having this conversation and i'm learning from them and being vulnerable their mentor. No it totally makes sense. Oh so the question of practical question. Someone's listening and who who've it's resonating with what you just said. Where are you having these conversations on on what platform platforms. And how are you finding these people yet. Now everything's online just we still in the covid pandemic so it's not going to have coffee with these people right today. Actually i've had a couple go for coffee walks where we're and and mostly mask except when sipping and keeping as this video getting to enjoy being outside which is important and the being around each other so i do. I do go on kaku walks with a couple of folks and mostly all through instagram. I've been actually quite shocked. At the business. Connections that i've made through instagram and twitter a little bit but at a good amount comes through structures. Cu boulder so see you boulders exceptional at nurturing an environment for entrepreneurs exceptional Great support really great I p rules like it's really easy to create something and keep it And so that has been a really great place mostly just. Because i'm i'm an entrepreneur and i'm trying to. That's where i'm going so looking around and just seeing what what. Resources are accessible in. My immediate physical community has been a really great way to to find people and then n conferences just the end. Not in the traditional way rate. So go into talks is great chatting with people's great but when he go to try not to talk about research try not to talk about science to try to talk about. What games are you playing. What's the hobbies picked up for. Like who are you as a person. And making that that gain that way. And i've i've found that has been my most successful habit on anything. I found the broadest reach of networks in the most beneficial networks by by just asking unusual questions in places where people are expected to be stereotypes. And another question is now. You know you're you're networking in and you're becoming an entrepreneur. You're also have this mission of helping kids see themselves in in in a future that is connected to to the team field. Yeah and see themselves no matter their their their background would. she's really cool Do you see You know some of you have some examples of young people. You've seen Kind of flourishing into this into this new image of themselves. And i. Just i'm just i just wonder what this looks like today. And if not maybe how. What do you envision. Based on the efforts you're making and that you see that the top down efforts you see that are being made. How do what do you envision as the what's what's going to happen in five ten years and what do you feel. The impact is of making these things happen and making university and graduate school more inclusive. Great question so i'll take. I'll talk a little bit about What's happening with these kids Talk about like what my vision is. I went what's team will look like so with with these with cranial. Eight with these comics in this experiment kit We're really trying to craft a broader sweep of science identities which is this very complex phenomenon where we primates were social animals in we primarily identify were very visual creatures most of us and so we see whether we ignore all the politics we see ourselves. We look for features of ourselves in our community to get ideas of what is feasible to in to intuit what works. And what doesn't work and so you cannot make that connection. You can't make these intuitions in these guesses take educated risks to move forward and so it's happens to a lot of these students who aren't included in the image of what a scientists looks like. What an technologist looks like. An engineer and mathematician or what those types of engineering what stem actually is the problem that they're actually solving rate. So it's it's not just. Who's doing it. What problems are valued right. So if you're sub terrestrial everybody's working on all these terrestrial at our boreal problems. Yeah you're not gonna because none of these things apply to you directly and so the the main push here is to start to create an avenue where these kids can just access that and see. Oh yeah. I love art. I didn't realize that art is geometry. Oh yeah i love. Music didn't realize that music is really complex. Math and programming. But this means now there's a. There's a relationship that i have to this more technical thing that's tied to my passion and now i'm going to be more motivated to learn about it and so and there's tons of tons of studies on this that once you have these kind of exposures in this relationship that your attitudes towards stem feel much more positive rate. It makes more sense and i. I've always said by my whole career if engineers go to the hood because we're constantly figuring out how to do things 'cause nobody's doing anything for us see these kids that figure out how to duct tape their car and you kind of joke about like how you got duct tape on your carpet. Think about what that means. You have to know where to apply force. You have to know how to make sure that the surface is clean and get a good stick in order for them to be a successful solution. That's all the same kind of skill. Set that you employ when you're doing. Any kind of engineering is just what we call. It is something different when you think about black hair styles and how they do all these intricate things with braids. That's materials engineering. Because we call it fails and so if we start to really break down. These very rigid ideas like well. I have to call bio mechanics this and start saying oh when i see a dancer when i see people cramping or or Animation where they have this amazing amazing physical control lean can go and talk to those dancers about bio mechanics. When you start to break down those walls you start to really see what stem can actually be and you start to really think of who is going to be involved right so i i like to do this practice when it comes to imagining the future is going to look like. I like to imagine him in a hallway in a university and walking down the hallway. And i'm looking in the rooms. And i'm seeing what is different. Maybe the hallway itself is different. Maybe the rooms themselves. So there's some classrooms there. Some research labs with peak in. We see the classrooms. Don't have desks. That are all facing forward there in a circle because we have a large number of deaf and hard of hearing students and we wanna make sure that when we give our lectures. We teach our classes. Everybody can participate. Everybody can learn. More accommodating were changed different. This is different space because it is inclusive when you look into the lab. You're seeing children playing because it's okay to bring your kids to work and have that as a incorporated space you're seeing people standing out in the hallways taking a break learning new tiktok dance because we're human and we bring our full cells into our workspace and it's okay to take these breaks and show people in a public space that we're human. We do human things like malo transatlantic dot you kids in in in the lab that are wearing had jobs that are in wheelchairs. Maybe you always have your happy hour your friday happy hours on this one bar because it's on the first floor in it's more accessible to the people who have physical disabilities right. We're just really like the the whole practice is just like how much can i imagine. As being different how many different people can think of when i think of this image of the future and you start to really think like oh this. That means how their work hours are. Different our deadlines are different are grant application processes different. How we published. Maybe we're publishing as much. Maybe we're giving more talks because what spoken is valuable as what's written rate. Were shifting what we're doing to be far more inclusive and if you think about these things you get this Jerk reaction like while. You can't do that. That's not science. Then you're not actually stay in this exclusive regimen like it has to change Think i think i've said this earlier before it. I'll say it again that the of change has to happen for stem for academia particlar to be genuinely inclusive is far more vast than what people are expecting right. Now it's breaking down all of the walls maybe even literally it's breaking hundreds and hundreds of years of past experiences and i think that's that is. It's funny because i often talk about this thing of breaking with the past just because of this issue of there's only fifteen to twenty percent of people coming out of grad school who are going to be professors yet. Like you said before when you in grad school. That's all that they. That's the carrot that they put in front of all of us yet right. Yep but we know we've known now for years that fifty to eighty percent so you know some people can say around academia. Maybe not without being attended a professor but then fifty percent of people will go out and it's super interesting that you say this because it it's it's it's building a new academia pig almost almost from scratch the brain. Our brains are the same. The way we learn are the same. It's just a question of it's institution. It's the baggage and that's really. I think that's what's difficult is it's really. It's really difficult to get rid of baggage. Yeah i have been seeing. And i will. I will just make the disclaimer. That i know. I'm in a bubble boulder because there's a lot of revolutionary people that are doing really radical things. And i'm like oh this is the whole world but i haven't seen a lot of people who are going through the academic track so they can build. They can create their own schools. They can like they were really in a place of innovation or really in a place of very empowered entrepreneurs and it's not just entrepreneurs are coming up with a new startup entrepreneurs that are coming up with the new classroom with a new way of learning with communicating. And so it's really exciting. I really think that the more we see the the the trickle of diversity that makes it through the washing machine that if academia or they come out on the other hand they're really putting in work at so i think we're in the next five ten years we're really going to see a lot of the impacts of the successes of these people. I know i want to visit because this sounds really awesome. I have a question for you. So based on this you know there can be an industry depending on who you talk with parts of industry who actually go and like almost hunt for phd's. But i feel that we were coming out of maybe a decade where the way to to be How can i say a great candidate for some domain was to get an mba and it might have felt for some people that oh okay i choose a phd. I made the wrong choice. And what i'm hearing from. What you're saying is no a. Phd is a way of the future. And i sometimes try to do not to think about that a lot in find kind of a narrative for that. But you gave to me futuristic futuristic picture that was i was really like almost seeing in my mind and it was really cool about this. This this inclusive future of people being able to engage with knowledge wherever they come from. And it's really exciting. But do you have yourself based on your experience appearance. going through. Kind of a tagline. Or a you know what does it mean in the twenty first century or what you feel. It's going to mean to have a phd in in the society for the future society. Yeah i wanna say this is coming out of the blue ready. Let's go do what to say that i was. I was looking steadfast looking to get out of academia again. A data science in science communication. I was really fervently looking for about a solid year. I'm just being in the job market. And one thing that i know that i don't people tell you is that outside of academia. Nobody knows what a phd is and then they see the phd number of times that interviews. They're like well. Why don't you want to be a professor. You have like only i can tell you So there's there's this awkward phase right now where we have this s flux of going out into a world that doesn't know how to deal with exit. I got more hits a more successes with interviews and and kind of going through the job process if said i had a masters of neuroscience which is absurd. Very rare masters That if i said i had a phd so just just putting that out there. That the world is quite. We haven't masked the number is yet where people are like. Oh you're just very practiced in budget management project management overhead administration Atop like coating and analytics the myriad things that you're doing in your in your hd and so that is really kind of that's that's the that's the baby that's the that's the egg is that you've gotten so much experience in your phd. That is not your thesis is. It is the product of your thesis but it is not the goal right. And so we're not we don't really. We're absolutely not trained to think about how is in in these terms of like in the language of other sectors. We're not taught that we're doing data science. We're not taught that we're doing database management but we are just. We are project managing. We are meeting with stakeholders every time. You have a committee meeting with stakeholders every time you write a report about your grant that you've got it. You're you're sending your reports back annually or your end of grant report your talk with stakeholders the language. It's just different and so coming out. We really are very well equipped to become entrepreneurs. There are absolutely things to learn right. There's a whole reason why there's a degrading to run businesses. But you come out really ahead of the average person you have really great skill set on top of that what you learn as a phd. Is you learn how to learn. You learn how to seek out resources you learn how to build. And so that's like the foundation that you need to do really any kind of business development successfully so it's getting in this practice. I think to really be successful as a phd. Now that's going out really have to think about what's the language hauer. How how are we saying. The same thing with different words How can i change. What i'm talking about to fit that new language look job applications. See what's out there and even like look for some talent you you can code in our right plug that into an indeed search and just see what comes up. What can you actually do with that. And how are people talking about it I think that's that's really really important. Because it gives you a sense of what the market is in while you're still get your time to kinda cater your skillset and your language toward it. Definitely look at job. Postings is a really good one because then if you if you look at you know ten of them you'll see that are thing in the same domain you'll see the keywords are going to come somebody and then find those keywords. Where does my experience fit with this keyword. And then if you're creating the resume. Lincoln profile include those keywords exact words exactly and then and then also talk. Talk if you can talk to people or having walked off his like you were saying no coffee works. That's a great opportunity to if they have this they have followed the path that you want to go into that. That's something i. I share a lot and i totally agree shows we are. We are getting to the end of our interview. Sadly although now. I kind of want to read your. Your comments will have to talk about that. But i'll let you talk about that in a minute. But before. I think we've covered a lot of interesting stuff. I think the listener must at least myself just listening to you. I created a great big beautiful picture in my mind. What things could look like not so far from today so going to. I'm going to hope for that very strongly but For no the listener. Who's out there who's may be going through a situation kind of know your experience going through graduate school feeling. Maybe i haven't found my tribe yet I can't. I can't use my voice. I have to have my guard up all the time. Thinking of you know that you're in front of an audience of listeners. Who are in this situation. Who who Maybe don't have a safe space or not yet. At least where the are do you have one. Or two words of of Inspiration Encouragement or advice for them just to to finish our conversation. Yeah i i. I feel free you ooh i feel for you. That is is a hard hard hard hard position to be in it. Just it really can break people down And so i think. I think the two things are two things that i think are really important. To focus on one is joy and the other is rest. And getting in the practice of valuing these two things as much as your work is valued as much as you have demands to continue with your work. It's with joy. joy is found. joy is found. There is always joy there and you have to be in the practice of finding. Maybe there's a game that you liked to play a thing that you like to do a place that you like to go but there's always joy at one one thing i do to to kind of find like a what what what actually brings me joy right not happiness not the manic upstate. Joy the that's closer to peace. Closer to ballots is at the end of the day. You have a really great day where you just like. Yeah you just feel that lightness in your chest. You like oh good. I love what i'm doing. This is excellent. Adds up to date what happened in that day. Write that down. Keep track of that because that is how you find joy. That's your path to finding it get in the practice of finding joy even when you're depressed your straw and you're mad. Take this time to find joy because your joy is important and the second is rest. You don't have to earn rest you don't have to earn rest rest is a right Rest looks different for different people. Rest might be going dancing. Rest might be sitting meditating. Rest might be cooking a good meal for yourself going out and and splurging every once in a while to get someone to make that meal for you. That's rest make sure you make a practice Especially if you don't have a place to go especially if you don't have people to talk to those two things will that's that's nourishment. That's that's self care that's love you know. You gotta gotta keep that. No one's gonna do it for you. Well i don't know if i'm gonna keep it but i want to say because it's funny because you just still in two words. You know things when. I talk about talk about mental health. I talk about wellness. i talk about community and anyway. I'm not going to say anything more. Because i want to your words echo in people's minds. Thank you says now if some people want to reach out to you. They were inspired by our conversation they are. They are curious about your project. Maybe want to collaborate. How do they reach out to you. Yeah welcome any and all people to come say hey shout me out hang out on all the platforms all the things. I'm a on instagram and twitter. I'm at the doctor's. E that's t h e c t a z. Lead e And you can check out my work. And what i have done what i'm doing now on my website in. That's curious doctors z. Curious drc. tom and yeah. I'll be a constantly. I'm really active on instagram. Feel free to dm mead. Get get about the abs chat with me and if you wanna go the old fashioned around your better writing things out you could shoot me an email. It's hsieh's s. h. a. z. at colorado dot edu. I really hope to hear from you. Guys that love to chat perfect says i will share all of those in the show notes again. Thank you so much for having accepted my invitation to come on the show. I really really happy with with a where we went with this conversation. And really thankful for all you've shared a. I'm sure that this will have at least a handful of the listeners out there if just one i'll be happy thank you so much thank you. I hope you enjoyed this conversation as much as i did. If you want to. Thank chaz or look into the resources we share during the conversation just go to pop each dot com forward slash hundred where you'll find all the links in the show notes. If you're new to the show. I strongly recommend going to pop a phd dot com slash. Start and exploring the team starter. Packs i've prepared for you. And now it's time for the podcast discovery segment with plants by pets and wise grad plans. Like really really liked them. Do you wish you get a glimpse at how they work. On the inside of a growth flower avoid problems like drought and heat and defend themselves against the tax. Well we do too. That's why we applaud. Pets explore the fascinating inner workings of plant molecular biology in our podcast and all black virginia. The bumblebee can control the flowering plants by gently fighting on soap. Bubbles are grateful plan pulley nation. We are teagan uram to plant. Scientists escaped the lab to bring you the hot new research without all the scientific jog and loss. We talk about topics diversity and equality in the academic system and bring fun science fiction the last week old and we talk about cuts and sometimes also we rent. You can read stuff on plants and pets dot com all sorts plants and pets in your favorite podcast app. Floods and prevents. We talked plant science. Hey jay williams visegrad. This is the goal to podcast where everyone interested in currently stuck in recently exited the academic world. So it's for students and students life here. We'll discuss topics ranging from overcoming academic obstacles to find jobs to navigate the imminent midlife crisis. I call it. The podcast were motivated procrastinators. So if you're a super driven but can't seem to get the car started. This podcast is definitely free. And that's it for this week's episode of papa. Phd thanks for listening. Thanks for sharing and have a great week. Thanks for listening to another episode of the pop up each d- podcast head over to papa. Pge dot com for show notes in for more food for thought about non-academic post grad careers. I'll always be happy to share inspiring stories new ideas in useful resources. Here on the podcast. So make sure you subscribe on itunes or wherever you get your podcasts to always keep up with the discussion and to hear from our latest guests.
B.I.G. Interview | Chris Williamson of Eaton Country Club
"This is edward or nfl reporter for espn and nineteen eighty two graduate of university of northern colorado. Hope you'll continue to listen to the winning show. Thirteen ten k. F. gay thirty minutes after the hour. Welcome back to the show. We're live from the articles in specialist studios. And most you guys listen to this. Show you just you. Don't you know by me describing that that. I'm terrible at golf. Although i love to go i do. We got colfax catchphrase. Just just to be out. There's nice to be out there. That's when you know you're a bad golfer when you just go you know what i don't even care it's great to be out here and i love being out at the country club. Went out there on friday. Absolutely beautiful laid back and that's really important for me. We're talking to the new head. Golf pro chris williamson chris man. Good to get you on the show. Thank you thanks for having me anytime. Yeah so i was out friday and you guys around. Yep oh you did. A- you saw some of that stuff. What did you any first impressions well. It was pretty toasty out there. So you get hydrated to stay hydrated. We had a listener out there. Dixon believe it. Or not the arch nemesis of the show was out there and hooked us up with great so i mean wow we gotta be carrying on the golf course. No did you see any of the shots. Not not the shah. I didn't get a chance to stumble. In i mean and that was my excuse right. That was the excuse. Golf is a mental thing. Man hundred percent an icon. And i have a mental head case. Yeah and it's It's hard for me to get past that sometime. There's definitely kind of like he was saying you know enjoying the walk is half the battle but the other battles definitely between your ears. How you think your way through the golf course matter so much but then people get so frustrated when things go south you know instead of just enjoying the atmosphere and having a good time. That's my problem. I just wanna get. I just want to get lift off at that point right now. I just won't lift off. I'm not warrant. Where i'm aiming or anything like that and my problem. Is i get thinking about that too much and then skips down my rights to down meshu. So this is a lesson for you. Yes and that's why we brought out great. Was i need some lessons. Because i do have a golf tournament that i'm in tomorrow well. We got crunched golfing. We're just sitting at hanging out the best way to teach me the They people try and make things way too complicated. I mean i think the games moving towards the direction where the swing is much more simplistic than needs to be. You definitely got rice and those guys on tour that are super technical and trying to figure all that out but it really doesn't take too many dots to Make the ball get up in the air and go the direction you want. There's going to be enough other stuff that comes into your head out of the golf course that you don't need to have too many things going on so we can work on that. So what how many practice swings should i be taking guy like me. That thinks about everything. It's all about feel okay there. Yeah i mean don't if you're starting to think about stuff in your practice swing step up and hit. It just is that people don't even do a practice with some guys do get up and go. I only take one or two just trying to feel feel the ground will bit just to make sure i'm not going to do my shouldn't now you being obviously. You're good at golf back. I mean you're good at golf. Do you ever get to a point though. Where you're it's in your head a little bit. We're kind of like they're watching me. I don't feel comfortable with this guy watching me hundred percent. I got a good buddy. Who's on the korn ferry tour. He was in town this week for media data the tc and he. We went out and played the bbc monday morning. And it's not in its tour condition yet but it's pretty good and we. We played the front nine. And i i was getting it around pretty good but i was down forty bucks to him at the turn and we got to the back nine and i started to turn it on a little bit. Got back to even but i got an hit. I've verdict couple of holes that he couldn't and watch him work through how he goes through that it's mental at all levels. That's really what separates those guys. Yeah he's had a good year But you know to get to that next level is all how you think your way around and crazy. I can get super frustrating at any point sports. I mean obviously there's a lot of mental aspects any sport but it just seems like golf. Is that one where it's like. It's just you up there by yourself and for some reason in that moment you think the entire world is judging how you're gonna hit that golf and it's not a reactionary sport. Yeah like it's a static thing that you're hitting and it's one hundred percent you whether it works or not so yeah it is. I tell people all the time. We don't play the game. It's one of the more fun things i've ever done in my life but it's at the top of the list for frustrations but you're right though. It is such a blast and again. It's laid-back out at the country club and i really value that. The view is phenomenal is How many how. Many golf balls are in that little cornfield. We lose more than we should. Mine packages was so. That's that's a good question. I think that's important if people are wanting to get more involved. There's not that kind of pressure manure an easy going guy. Taking lessons from you would make a lotta sense. Yeah we we've got a few professionals out there. All of us offer different lessons. Everybody comes from kind of a different approach to the game. But yeah it's easy to get into. We're open to the public from the teaching aspect of the private country club. We'll we'll give anybody a lesson in let you out to Try and improve mile. And that's a cool thing too because even if you're not a member but you're just wanted to try to get better your take that gives us a call. We were out last year we did. We did golf broadcasts. We were broadcast off last year. And of course to the tournaments. I think we were out at the country club and that was just really special. I mean seeing all these phenomenal young golfers out there Really enjoying the club. Yeah the game's definitely continually growing and growing younger which is good Anything really to promote the game. Good which i know. There's some stuff in the news here. Recently yeah rooks bryson. Yeah i mean any news. Good news and some level for that well and of course it was tiger woods for the longest time right grabbing the casual fans over right. But now you have. This feud you just said with bryson and brooks. I mean it's entertaining. It is and you love it in any sport. But now you're seeing it in engulf where you really don't get that a whole heck of a lot golf's kind of the ones fort where you don't have little rivalries because it's just i mean usa vs europe and the ryder cup coming up this fall other than that though. There's not a lot of competition. There used to be back in the fifties and sixties with nicholas palmer and snead and hogan way back in the day but we might be getting some of those coming back around because there's so many good players now still wanted to be like caricatures almost. Yeah i mean you look at the nfl and the nba. You have guys that are just different. They're just different people right. And that's fun. You see their personalities open up and tiger. although he's a he's amazing he's going to obviously the greatest golfer of all time right. he's pretty straightforward right as far as his approach. Getting guys like this. i mean i. It's entertaining and i tell you it gets people paying attention that might not gall does ratings. Go up significantly when tigers in the field whether he makes the cut or notch or to get these guys going back and forth and drawn in arguably gulf audience is a huge win so well and so you think this rivalry like it's good. It's walking behind each other while they're on camera. They're saying to each other it's hilarious. Yeah golf is a there's definitely professionalism and a Old school honor that needs to still be in the game of golf. But it's supposed to be fun playing. It's supposed to be fun being around. It's supposed to be fun. Not too stuffy and feel like you can't break into that so yeah to have some of that where that the clip of brooks was that was phenomenal. That leak off channel was it was it to me. It opens up. It opens people up. They're like oh that's this. This kind of stuff mike. Maybe it just happens and we just never know about it. I'll be curious to see. I know they were. There's rumors that they were gonna be paired together. Starting today s open starts today in the. Us put him out at the exact same time on. All sides of the golf course tried to split them up. But we'll see if they if someone decides to pair them up together an event coming that he just that'd be must see television. I mean i think you guys tuning in at ten. Am on the gulf. Imagine so it's probably why they wanted to do exactly right Now you're seeing all the liberty tournaments as well to you're getting. Is you know golfing with with tom. Brady peyton manning like that stuff to me is and that was the only sport we had when the pandemic was at his height right. So that's gotta be another thing is just amazing for the sport. I think you'll see more of those coming up. I know the tourists trying to get back into that game. Used to be a big deal with the shell's wonderful golf back in the sixties. Doing that kind of stuff again. Just another another touch point and it's fun to watch those guys mike up. Yeah golf's kinda last sport to get into that To see either what. They're thinking through with their caddies. Or what kind of jab. They're throwing at each other. I mean there's things on the side that happened on tour all the time between players. It's you don't get a chance to see so that's fun. No question about it. We're talking to chris williamson head golf pro at eton country club and we're gonna talk about some of the some of the deals and things coming up with your calendar and everything to But yeah as far as as far as lessons and getting into. I think that's what you're probably going to get more and more people younger people that are like i like these names. It's entertaining. I'm seeing golf with football guys basketball guys. Whatever i wanna get into this sport and it's a sport that you can do pretty much forever forever. I tell people that all the time. It's although like we talked about earlier. It can be frustrating. It is the one thing that you can do from age. Four all the way till you know your last week here. Yeah so you can always go out. Walk and ride. You can play it anywhere in the world Yeah it's a great. I think it teaches so much about life as well and that is really you know. There's so much that goes on with the humility aspect in the fairness and and just dealing with trials because like you said well. I've been told as i walked into the studio. You have a lot of trials on the golf course. Oh my gosh. it's like it's like a novel out there man. What is happening over here with this person and friday was awful. Well we're gonna work on that happy birthday by the way. Listen to her twenty-one today yes pretty excited about that. That's right red bull mid thirties. I'm officially in the mid thirty thirty five right on right on the nose you peak in your golf game and your mid to late thirties. Here we go. Okay yeah maybe tomorrow is gonna be alright mystic. So i'm already like scared and nervous. Because i know that it's too. So it's tanner and i and then we're going to be with two other people. I have no idea who they are right so i'm already thinking of that. First time i go to t this bad boy off and i'm already it's already. I'm already in my head freaked out coincidence. What do i walk up. Confident in the ground. Put the ball on it and just expect it to go down the fairway. Do some push ups or something you're going to be playing with. I mean maybe you're gonna get in their head games still little bits and iraqi or seriousness. People really struggle with that. Especially on the i e. Oh i mean keep it simple. You know you can't be thinking about too many things. Typically people swing way harder than they need to. You know the the basis of the golf swing is the body not the arms and people try and pull with their arms way too fast so just get your body turning get to a good trophy post. Finish and look for it in the fairway. All right man. i'm gonna start looking left well normally. It's like right by my we do. That's the thing last year. I'm driving this thing. It's it's working. And i'm at least getting some confidence and then friday i got. I gotta figure this out all right all right. We'll get you on the calendar we got. We'll get something man. We facebook live and everything show people how bad i am and perfect it as we go play some rocky music. The mobile station antenna could commentators. That's so what is your thoughts. Okay so halfway through. Tanner starts trying to give me a lot of pointers. Yes and i'm kind of. I'm a simple kind of guy. I'm semi simple-minded. I suppose you could say my wife likes to say that But as i'm getting more and more things thrown at me. I'm thinking okay. I gotta do this. I'm not doing this. It almost kind of bothers me. That's the point of the simplistic idea. So i try and leave everybody in a lesson with one or two swing thoughts. Max you know you might have a couple setup dots if you're getting a little crooked in the setup that you gotta go but once you are set up those are done. He got one thing to pull the trigger. Because whether it's the bird that flies by or the thought of don't it in the water or tanners like dude keep your head down like so many other things are going to pop into your mind. Definitely not listen to dinner his adviser but try not to do that. One good thing to come back to you. Don't need to analyze what went wrong. Just come back to why it was good all right man. Well i'm gonna. I gotta get out there. We'll try something out for sure. What's going on at eton country club for you guys for because obviously you got to have a membership if you just wanna go and stuff like that but you guys have other tournaments that are open to the public we do. Yeah we're cruising it's middle summer. I mean feels like it's august but we're only out this heat We're fully private. We've got a handful of events that are open to the public eye. Biggest woman's back on memorial day. The two best ball so mark your calendars for that next year. We've got a ladies open event. The next saturday the twenty six km called the sun bonnet. You just call all shop for any of these men in september. We've got run at three weekends in a row where we've got a senior classic For senior three persons scramble september eleventh and twelfth which is really fun Lot aside action going on. They're open to anybody then. A big super super skins game at the end of september on the twenty third. Okay so we are open for just a handful of events their so called the golf shop to get signed up. If you're interested. I love going to the website to folks listening. Now they're thinking okay. I want to maybe maybe look at some of those tournaments but thinking about i was talking to some folks the other day here in greeley. That were like yeah. We've been thinking about becoming a member of the country club. And luckily i was there. Because i said you guys should do bam. I think it how so confer commission already. That's actually another reason. We had training and all that stuff. So we're still open for membership. We're getting close to where we want to be membership. Wise golf has been such an uptick since covid Public courses are still hard to get times a lot of country clubs denver fort collins along the front range of filling up and capping or following closely behind that are fees thousand dollars down right now and then the full family membership is only two hundred and fifty three bucks a month while we're looking to take fifteen to twenty more and then we'd talk about cabinet here at the end of next year end of this year starting next year so while there you go folks if you are interested. Now's the time to get after and i. I highly recommend them christmas and anything else. Are we missing anything. I don't think we've got to get you out and play that all right. We'll get out there and do this again this. Yeah we'll have you on the show anytime now in playing. I mean if that's what you want to call what. I do play store. Oh we'll go out there starting the putting green and just yeah lowly work our way. Hunting doesn't make me nervous at all. I've got most over the. It's the thing that it doesn't bother me at all. Because i know the worse that's going to happen. It's going to go way past the whole or way too short and that doesn't bother me. It's the dr man. Because if i'm ready to go and it's just an it just got to get you off the box. We gotta get that figured out. Okay all right man. I appreciate you. Let's do this again. Okay sounds good. Colfax will take a quick break when we come back. what are we talking about. Poll question grass to turf speaking a grass. You've got unc field they're gonna turf and this is surprisingly a controversial thing man. I don't understand it but we'll talk about that. Big things happening with ed mccaffrey. And the university of northern colorado. It's the whole show powered by the energy. You're listening to the hall's show powered by pdc energy and thirteen ten kfi k. Brady will be back after the break.
February 16th: Mark Jones and Jared Fiel HR 3
"This is mornings with kale and northern colorado's voice thirteen ten. Kfi am along well and a fortunate three for the criminal element of among us. They'll ride that highway all night long but not necessarily in their own car. It could be yours it. Oh seven thirteen ten. Kfi gay thirteen ten kfi k. A. dot com northern colorado's voice mornings with gail via the auto collision specialist studios came across a piece on february eleventh. Nine news Did a pretty thorough piece on metre denver's top ten stolen vehicles for twenty twenty noting. That pickup trucks made up a larger portion of the list in years past. I got to thinking. Are we seeing the same thing in greeley joined this morning by really police. Chief mark jones jones. Welcome back to the show. Thank you glad to be here. Certainly appreciate your taking the time. So are we seeing a spike in motor vehicle thefts throughout Twenty twenty and as a result of well increased criminal activity You know unfortunately we are. And i think from what i know and understand even though all the statistics are not yet. I think it's kind of a statewide thing yet. Really is is up. We just got our statistics done for twenty twenty and that in two thousand nineteen. We had three hundred six auto thefts and then in two thousand twenty two three hundred and eighty six. So we're up about twenty six percent so we've certainly seen an increase. Does that have something to do with those Restrictions guidelines put into place relative to jails and prisons throughout the state as a result of covid nineteen. It's hard for me to i. Guess be able to say with certainty. One hundred percent of of what it is but i certainly believe that that that's a part of it. I mean they've number of people out of the prison system And are continuing to do so. And the other thing that i keep saying over and over is that you know the parole system They're just not revoking parolees Like they used to for things that they do and and we've seen an uptick unfortunately in a number of our crimes and sadly when it comes to motor vehicle act of. It's not just a matter of the joy. Reid typically as i understand it and you can certainly confirm this if indeed is the case. My understanding is these vehicles that are stolen while they're used to commit other crimes yet. Then i think we've definitely seen that clear pattern this last year we get a lot of people and again our guest so back to my wearing masks people i think are emboldened but a lot of people are stealing cars and then they do like. Let's just say major shoplifting. You know where they'll go in and get a couple of thousand dollars of the stuff. Run out getting a stolen car and leave and then when the car on video you know the license plate come back to a stolen vehicle you know. And they have a hat and glasses and a mask on and it's hard to tell who they are so we've seen a lot of that and again with other other crimes. That's what they do. They take the car. Go use the car and if somebody gets a license plate it doesn't come back to them now. I'm not sure that you have the specific stats but as you referenced. Indeed yeah this is a state wide problem but they broke down a list of stolen cars from january first to december thirty first. This is the metropolitan auto theft task force and it starts with the chevy silverado. The honda civic honda cord ford up to fifty. Gmc sierra ford f one fifty four f three fifty ram fifteen hundred hyundai sonata. Honda cr v. are you seeing a similar stats in greeley. But i'm not sure that you have you know the drilled down to those specifics. I haven't broken down into the make of the car. But here's what i will say. Fifty percent of all of our stolen cars are people who leave their car running with keys in it so it doesn't matter whether it's a pickup honda a toyota. It doesn't matter. Fifty percent of them were because people keep the car running with keys in it. Yeah exactly. that's a perfect segue chief jones. Because i had pulled that story out of the greeley trip by trevor read a talking about the fact that a man and woman facing felony charges after they allegedly stole cars that were left running and unlocked late. This past month in greeley. How many times have we had that conversation about. The puffer puffs a number. And you know we put it on our social media and we asked people not to do it and You know there's usually comments where people irritated because it's like victim blaming or why should you blame us but the bottom line is when you leave your car running with the keys in it. There's a pretty good possibility. Somebody's going to grab it and it says this story very clearly laid out to one gentleman. He had started his two thousand. Four chevrolet impala then said oops i gotta go back side to get back inside my home to get something saying that He he was only inside his home for a couple of minutes at most that when he came outside he saw a woman. Get into the driver's seat and drive off just like wait a minute. If they're stand around watching it literally takes them a few seconds. So you know and i also under we understand to. There's a lot of vehicles now. The newer ones that have the shut offs where people could leave their cars running and if somebody gets it without keys it's just gonna die and and there's nothing illegal about that as long as your car has the shut off but the ones i'm talking about are obviously the people that leave him running. That don't have the shut off. And then the next thing you know we have a stolen car and exactly and a lot of time and effort obviously spent in trying to resolve that situation. I talk a little bit more about what you've found as far as kronstadt friends in greeley kind of told people that's kind of what i've expected is that the arc overall call load. This last year was down because of covid you know there was about three months that our caller was way down but unfortunately are serious. Crime is up. And i think that's gonna be the story across the state in the country as well but yeah we're up fairly substantially you know in are aggravated assaults In our just overall general thefts motor vehicle thefts unfortunately homicide rate is is up a lot from what it's ever been So our call load has been down but violent crime and serious crime has been up and once you attribute the rise in violent and serious crime to well you know. I'm gonna sound like a broken record. But i you know you can't just in my opinion you can't just keep letting people out of prison that have violent past and i know they say they're not letting the violent ones out but i have plenty approved show otherwise You just can't continue to have people get five and ten year sentences and do six months Eight embolden them. I believe And i part of it. I kind of like the article in the paper three or four months ago. I think it's a combination of a lot of things. Lot of people under stress You know people lost their jobs. Covert is put a strain on society politics letting people out of prison. I mean on. And on. And on i think all of that combined for what. We're saying well. Do you see that trend particularly when it comes to a truncated sentencing. Do you see that turning. Around anytime soon. Because i'm sure colorado greeley Not alone in this place. So i don't and and not to bring up a bad thing or one of our bad instance over the last couple of weeks but we had an officer involved shooting here not very long ago and that person had been to prison several times and never done more than i. I think maybe the longest a year out of a ten year sentence and had gotten out done a few more months got put back in That happened three or four times right in a row until we were involved in an officer involved shooting with them. So you know the pattern is there. And and i i. Unfortunately i don't necessarily see a change. Pretty sad statement on society but just my very humble opinion police chief heart jones. Thank you so much for all that you and your colleagues do know we support you and appreciate you each and every day. Well i thank you very much. And i'll pass it onto the officers and i know they feel appreciated this town. And we're thankful for greeley greeley police chief mark jones eight sixteen now thirteen ten. Kfi thirteen ten kfi k. A. dot com this time. Check sponsored by the candlelight dinner playhouse. In johnstown gotta get in get a little lift in your spirits of levity and enjoy the church basement ladies now taking center stage through a march twenty eighth. All you need to do is jump online. Co colorado candlelight dot com for tickets and show information candlelight dinner playhouse in johnstown broadway in your backyard the power trip weekdays at eleven thirteen ten kfi k. P. miss any portion of mornings with gail go to thirteen ten. Kfi dot com to download the podcast today back together lou dare up seventy third general assembly this after a five week. Hiatus is back at the state capital beginning today to pick up where they left off in a january. Protect your wallets. Whatever you do. Eight twenty-seven now thirteen ten. Kfi a thirteen ten k. of k. a. dot com. All right so Here's what's expected as the festivities get under way under the state gold dome whole lotta speechifying expected to take place today and after all that is done well they'll head right into committee work and begin to review the more than six hundred bills. They're busy aren't they. Expected in the next one hundred and seventeen days so the twenty twenty one session likely to focus straight away on providing economic and other forms of relief to colorado wins impacted by the pandemic and. Well all of the economic hardships caused as a result of that this to a piece by marianne goodland out of colorado politics but it's the only thing that lawmakers will be looking at last year's pandemic shortened session of eighty four days still saw two hundred and twenty four county two hundred and twenty four bills introduced in the senate four hundred and twenty seven in the house about average for a one hundred and twenty days session. Apparently twenty bills have already been authorized for pre-release by their sponsors including a second attempt at allowing for. Oh please composting of human remains. That's just wrong. I'm sorry. I'm going to call it the way i see it. Senate local government committee plans to review that measure and two others this afternoon in twenty. Twenty the human composting. Bill was sponsored by representative of breanna tone democrat r vata but was buried by the pandemic senate bill six. The twenty twenty one version will start in the senate and is sponsored sponsored by senator. Robert rodriguez a democrat out of denver. Second bill scheduled for today will grant county governments the authority to require businesses in unincorporated parts of the county to register but those governments will not be allowed to charge a fee or require a license for that service. But they're not done yet. Third bill on the local government calendar on allowing county assessors to notify property owners of their valuation the postcard a cost saving measure. Now a bill to create the status of a discharged. Lgbt veteran and make those military veterans eligible for certain states services will be sponsored by representative. David ortiz out of littleton and senator dominick moreno out of commerce city bill. Notes that some. Lgbt veterans have been discharged less than honorably from the military senate bill twenty six and that due to their sexual orientation or gender identity. Senate bill twenty six would make. Lgbt veterans eligible for tuition assistance available to the military teaching grants burial at the home lake veterans cemetery and monta vista or at any other state owned veterans cemetery and hunting licenses for which veterans do not need to take a hunter safety. Course all right coming up. It's a tuesday morning staple of mornings with gail. We'll talk with jared file. See dot region four communications manager when he joins us this morning. Right around eight thirty five. What's happening in your own. Backyard listened to no co- now with tanner's swint a northern colorado's voice. Thirteen ten kfi k. But with your favourite high school basketball teams with perhaps radio and northern colorado's voice. Thirteen ten kfi k. Welp cold freezing temperatures. Yes that's arctic. Last as it put a hitch in the giddy up of ongoing roadwork on i twenty five eight thirty eight now. Thirteen ten k. k thirteen ten. Kfi k. a. dot com northern colorado's voice mornings with gail from the auto collision specialist studios joined this morning by jared file cdot region for communications manager. Chilly burr bundle up. Holy moly if you think it's still cold in your car or in your house or whatever. Just imagine those folks out there working on the roads right now so even begin. Don't you give them a break when it gets cold. There are times when it gets day when it does get too cold and we have to stop work but That work on. I twenty five to be continuing ed and so whenever we can get out there safely we weird out there working since. That's a lovely segue by the way jarod thank you. Let's talk a little bit about that ongoing work on. I twenty five. Make you work with those segues gal. Yeah so this week we We do have a big one Kind of a good closure on Let's see it'll be thursday or wednesday night into thursday Sorry thursday night into friday This will be at prospect road so we will have full closure of i twenty five at prospect and so the the i twenty five traffic will actually go up and down the on and off ramps at prospects during that overnight closure And prospect will be closed and that is to get rid of some of that You know when we have to build two bridges and put them back together. There's some extra stuff and we have to get rid of the extra stuff. Yeah well they call it false work. And i think that sounds weird so i'm just gonna call it extra stuff. It's a little easier under interesting. Yeah so his temporary stuff that they had to put in when we had the two temporary. Bridges You know and now we're going to be back on the full regular one so That's all part of that and we don't want to have people driving underneath when they're doing that. So that's why we have to do that so That'll be thursday night from about nine pm to five am on friday and Kind of like not crossing the streams important safety tip. Yes yes we had. Ghostbusters comment And then The other one that will have this week will be the northbound on ramp to i twenty five at harmony with a full closure Friday night at nine. Pm to five am saturday And so folks so if you wanna go north Obviously there's a lot of local routes to get around But that'll be just part of getting getting everything cleaned up so we're ready to to go into the next thing. So that's all part of the continuing work that we're going to be doing to advanced twenty five As everybody knows we're we're going to have work going on there from now till twenty twenty three so we just want people to be aware but there are some bigger closures spent. That's what we want to make sure people are aware of and we certainly do appreciate that So it doesn't put a hitch into our proverbial giddy. Hey i pulled this out of the fort collins colorado. I know we've discussed it. But miles blunt heart given cdot a little bit of love talking about the north. I twenty five express lanes project not just including the state's first bus slip which i still. It just boggles my mind. I think that's absolutely incredible won't just includes the state's first bus slip in the middle of interstate but likely the first two so that And and i think it's probably If you wanna say Bus slip it would be the center load slip because we have bus slips like all up and down I twenty five and even on thirty six in boulder Where the bus can go off on. Just its own exit. That's called a bus slip but the center load is canoe is the really original part of that and and So yeah we'll have that one at kindle parkway and we actually have some pretty slick animation of what. That's going to look like that. We're going to be Posting here in a little bit But it's it really is gonna be nice. The the folks that sent tara and are busting folks actually added A little more money to the project to for lack of a better term. Make it look a little nicer And it will you know since we're connecting up with the retail. Tara so that will be called our loveland and tara hub and then one up north is going to be at birth or south is going to be at berthod. And that's it highway fifty six. And that's when we just got the stimulus money for so What was interesting. Was we previously had the money to do. The tunnel underneath But now with this initial stimulus that provides us the ability to put in all the all the stuff up above that will make it actually a bus stop so I know the mayor berthod is very excited about this and You know really making that a central hub. And what you're finding is that we're going to be doing this all up and down the i twenty five quarter or we're looking at at one nineteen and long my and And further down south even all the way down to pueblo So you start to see you know. We may not be able to get a train in the in the near future. But this is going to be the closest thing we're going to have because really these buses are just gonna stop In that center pick up people and keep going all the way down to denver without Very much delay and staying in that Expressing the whole time it really does open up the front range for commuters to work and live wherever they want. And that's that's a really impressive thing you know. We've seen how much the busting ridership has done especially up here on the northern route from denver fort collins that's been are easily are our most popular route and The i know the folks who take busting regularly They are they are. I guess For lack of a better term religious zealots about it they are very protective of and and have definitely seen the light. Let's say that another one rides bus. Wow into weird al. I love that you never know right. I mean you've always got to be ready to go into the kimchi with because well. That's where i tend to go left to my signs added. Wishy it truly do jared with well Just a little trepidation. I'll bring up the fact that you know i. I'm not a zealot. I don't think i'm quite elevated in that category. But i am a big fan of bus stang especially looking forward to going to those rockies. Games once again without nolan and so. We're hoping that only good conversation. That was painful for you. You are a die-hard zealous rockies fan yes definitely me makes me very sad so i'm sorry i didn't mean just singing. The praises of mustang. All right so we're pretty kind up on the impending continuing roadwork on i twenty five anything else that we need to be aware of. I love the story. And i'm sorry. Jared i don't have the particulars in front of me but the headline just cracked me out. There was that really huge boulder that fell down on the road. I wanna say in southern colorado and it was described. It was a huge boulder that well looked like a huge boulder. Bit of a call out to us. Espn officer who who Quite a better. A couple of years ago had reported that a boulder sized boulder was on the road so above outdoor partners. That was just endlessly amusing to me. Because you know. I couldn't help but wonder well. How do you define a bull. How does that work exactly. So i see there was a little snark house them going back and everybody there. We might have been having a little fun with her esp there. That was an interesting one because that was about the size of a probably a minivan and And yeah So they actually had to blow that one up That was the only way they could actually move it and so Because you know previously when we had a big fall in southern colorado they just left it on the side of the road and named so. I didn't that's right. That was memorial luck so it so this one was actually in the lane of traffic. So that probably wasn't an option so so yeah they did have to blow that one up. Yeah that was a that was pretty impressive. They're getting some good rockfall down. that way. yeah they certainly are. Yeah large boulder the size of a small boulder. That's a good one is no you're boulders. Yes and on that note charity. Vile cdot reason for communications manager. Thank you so much. You have a great day youtube. Stay one eight forty nine out. Thirteen ten kfi k. Apart northern colorado's force thirteen ten. Kfi a block party wednesdays from four to ten pm. Prep soups is back. Now you can watch and listen. Go to thirteen ten. Kfi dot com for details. Preps radio is northern. Colorado's voice thirteen ten. Kfi k terms of conversation morning always the ambiance formative wind with rob nicholson who is head of the independence institute. Constitutional studies center constitutional scholar in his own right former law professor for twenty five years author of the original constitution and what it actually said and meant. Well we worked through the facade the charade that was impeachment of palooza two point. Oh needless to say well second verse same as the first as the senate did not convict. President trump for inciting an insurrection but he brought up the fourteenth amendment. And unfortunately let's you say that. Well and i i do love this. It's not my phrase but it always cracks me up for those for whom trump has been living rent-free in their collective heads for far too long. Well they're not done with former president trump yet and there's talk about using the fourteenth amendment to prevent trump from running again but as robin adelson noted this morning. Legal scholars disagree about how if it all. The fourteenth amendment could be applied in trump's case so how about a little primer fourteenth amendment adopted in sixty eight mostly known for granting citizenship rights and equal protection under the law to anyone born or naturalized in the nation including black people and those formerly enslaved the amendment nullified the eighteen fifty seven supreme court decision dread scott versus sanford which held that people of african descent could not be us citizens however there is one teeny tiny section of the amendment that blocked someone from holding office who having previously made an oath to the constitution has quote engaged in insurrection or rebellion across the united states or against the united states. Now the intent at that time was to influence. The government. In the south by barring confederates from serving in public office after the civil war. The idea was that officeholders. The united states will not be people who were treasonous to the united states this according to doron career a professor at cleveland marshall college of law again differing opinions among legal scholars as to whether the could actually be used and trump's case and if it were to be used how exactly it would play out one uncertainty as rob nicholson constitutional scholar noted. This morning is whether or not the text can be applied to the office of the presidency. It lists senators representatives and electors as positions from which could be barred but guess what the presidency is not explicitly named dana's robinson told us this morning That makes it questionable as to whether it applies to the president of the united states. At all there's also uncertainty over. Exactly what the would look like for invoking the amendment to remove a someone from office but if indeed that fourteenth amendment were to be put into play in this last ditch hail mary effort to prevent former president trump from ever running for public office. Again guess what. If it were to be invoked it would undoubtedly be challenged in court and something to look forward to. It would ultimately take years to play out eight fifty seven. Thirteen ten kfi k. What the whole sports story in northern colorado state in the country tune into the whole show weekdays noon to two and thirteen ten kfi k. Local programming continues right after mornings with hailin. No noko now the power trip. And i'll show. We are northern colorado's voice. Thirteen ten kfi. Well jeez just stole my thunder. So i'll be repetitively redundant thirteen ten. Kfi a thirteen ten kfi k. A. dot com your home for live and local programming. Keep it right here. Tender swint with noko. Now coming your way in just a few stay warm.
07-07-20 Music Maker: Cary Morin
"Welcome to native America calling from Studio Forty nine in Albuquerque I'm Tara Gi would. Here's what are July. Music maker Carry Marin is bringing today. Thinking, how! God away from. A house. Family. That's chosen road from Chroma. -sition carry Moran's new album dock site. Saints what you hear on this project is a new step for this veteran musician today on our program. We get to hear just why. Stay tuned for more on Kerry Maureen right after national. Native News. This! Is National Native News Antonio Gonzalez the US Supreme Court has refused to reinstate water crossing permits for the Keystone Excel pipeline. The permits issued by the US Army Corps of Engineers were ruled insufficient by a Montana court in May a decision affirmed by the Ninth Circuit. Court of Appeals last month, the High Court was asked to step in and allow construction of the pipeline to continue while the ninth circuit. Here's the. The case. The order was made public Monday. Behi- Court allowed the Montana. Federal Injunction to stand as it pertains to the Transcanada project, however that ruling also applied to all new oil and gas pipelines in the nation and the High Court lifted the injunction for those projects. The vacating of water permits essentially puts the pipeline on hold for months during the peels process, stopping pre construction that started in April and includes two. Two Mile, segment, crossing the US Canada. Border tribes and environmental groups are among those opposing the pipeline. Meanwhile, tribes are celebrating Mondays Federal Court ordered that the Dakota access pipeline must be shut down by August fifth. Victoria wicks has the story. The Dakota access pipeline has been operating since two thousand seventeen, even though the US Army Corps of Engineers never completed an environmental impact study federal judge James. Berg found in March that. That the study is required under the National Environmental Protection Act or KNEEPADS. His ruling response to challenges brought by the Oglala Johnston Cheyenne River and Standing Rock Sioux Tribes Attorney on Husselmann of earthjustice represents standing rock. He says this order is a testament to the perseverance of tribes standing rock. Sioux tribe has this pipeline with so much integrity and consistency for so many years even when it fell out of the public eye. SAYS THE ARMY Corps ignored spills from other pipelines installed by energy transfer partners, and thereby failed to assess the risk dapple presents, Hustle says the core, and Dapple will likely immediately asked the DC court to reconsider the shutdown, and if that fails could appeal the decision to higher courts in briefs, Dakota access. Owners say dapple could lose as much as two billion dollars through two. Two Thousand, twenty one I'm Victoria. Wicks in rapid city South Dakota Nick, Tilson the founder of the native nonprofit, Indian collective was released from jail Monday and is facing felony and misdemeanor charges, following an action Friday in South Dakota, where indigenous people in their allies blocked a road, calling for the protection of land and treaty rights leading up to President Trump's visit to mount rushmore. With law enforcement, some people were pepper sprayed, and at one point and National Guard Police Shield was taken and painted with the words land back before it was returned China Lock! It has more nick. Tilson was arrested with twenty other people during the demonstration most were released on bail over the weekend Tilson wasn't released until Monday because he's facing to federal charges, one for allegedly stealing the police shield, and another for making the Guard member who shield was taken fear for her life. Other state charges include disorderly conduct, impeding the highway and unlawful assembly Nicholson's father mark. Tilson spoke about the charges after the bail hearing. I think it would be. Disingenuous to say you know when a judge says, your son is facing ten years in prison that that doesn't happen to affect on you, but nick is carrying on a very deep patriotic American tradition of civil disobedience in calling for people's rights, protesters organized in conjunction with teenage leaders from the Pine Ridge Reservation, and you know he really created that space for them, and as a father makes you really proud that he walks his talk in, and he's really really dedicated to these youth child for the charges against Nick has not been set. I'm trying to lock it in rapid city. And Demand Tony Gonzalez. National Native News is produced by colonic. Broadcast Corporation with funding by the corporation for public broadcasting. Support by Aarp Tele townhalls, bringing you expertise and the latest information on the corona virus pandemic from leading experts info on the latest schedule at eight, five, five, two, seven, four, nine, five, zero seven. Support by Ramona farms, offering wholesome and delicious foods from our heirloom crops as our contribution to a better diet for the benefit of all people we are honored to share our centuries, old farming and culinary traditions online at Ramona farms dot com. Native voice one the native American radio network. This is native America, calling I'm your host Taraji would. Today we get to witness in evolution of sound that sort of been building for years in the life of Crow Recording Artists Carry Morin. He's known for his riveting blues and Bluegrass and his fancy finger picking styles this time around. He's exploring what it means to bring visions to life. His album dockside saints was recorded in the special place, known from the lightly sounds Zydeco and Cajun music, and from Song to song. You hear how this place is. In between the lyrics Carey says it was a welcome journey to allow his compositions to grow into what they needed to be. And we'll hear how he's flavored his work today on her July music maker, and the first ten people to make it on air with the commoner question will get a copy of dockside. Saints Album, courtesy of Kerry and Maple Street music. Our phone lines are open now. The number to call is one, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight. That's also winning hundred nine native, and we are happy to be sharing ten copies of this album with the first ten people who make it on air, asked their question or talk directly with Kerry, so go ahead and dial in our number one, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four eight right now. It is my pleasure to go to fort. Collins Colorado to say hello to crow recording artists carry Maureen Carey thanks for joining us. Sarah Stalls a pleasure. Indeed End Kerry. This album is full of a lot of energy and I'd like you to tell us a little bit about why this one is special, especially when we think about the different albums that you've put out into the world previously, this one is pretty unique. Tell us some of that story. Well, it's an idea that started a couple years back we're. We're thinking that we wanted to. Get Out of our region to make an album and. Enjoy, some of the influence of. You know the music is someplace else Originally we're talking about going to. Montpellier France. To record there, and then I was on tour and visiting with some friends. Outside of New Orleans Louisiana. And the subject of Dockside Studio in Maurice Louisiana came up. So, we went out and visited the studio. And just even just driving onto the property. We would kind of flipped out a little bit because it was just. If such a picturesque place. And We we decided right then and there that that was going to be the location of this recording. And we had friends. That helped us find Players from around the area. To appear on the album and They're all all the players are. local heroes. So the the result was. pretty pretty astounding. We're we're so. We're we're so thrilled? And and I'm just personally honored have. Performed with these guys and and. I can't wait for that to hear the. Recordings. You know what let's get to some of those results. We're going to hear from this new album from carry more in out of the crow nation. If you WANNA talk to him, dial in right now. One, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight, is the number. Let's go ahead and here one of the tracks this is nobody got to know. Access. Them. Now you. Ta. A Role. John! This is the July music maker. We are joined by Carrie more in the gentleman. You are hearing right now. Calling in talk to him, tell him what you think of his new album dot site. Saints, one, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four eight is how you get into the conversation we now go back to. Nobody got a no. Well there you have it carry more in Carey you made. It feel like a party in the mid day in the middle of the work week I appreciate that in all of those sounds I see how you took those flavors and for you. How much fun was it? Put in all of this together? calling on players from area and saying okay, let's create. Well. I'm glad you like it. this, we. we're. We're really happy with the recording. Yeah, I've had the opportunity to to. To play with a lot of world, class players over the years. And you know a lot of them right around here around Denver Fort Collins. And but the music that comes out of Lafayette Louisiana is on like. any place in the world. Is. About the history there and and. The the instrumentation really. That's just really incredible unique so. We're really happy that everybody that we asked to participate in the recording, said yes. In the exciting thing to about music from this area, it has a lot of indigenous. flair to it in roots in you know the place where they call the Bertha Jazz, a place where the blues blue into something else is a really exciting thing. Maybe you have connections. Go ahead and call us. Tell us about at one, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four eight. Let's take a call. We're going to go ahead and say hi to one of our folks, Jamie. Who is in East Lake? MINNESOTA TUNED IN ON W. O. J. P. team. Thanks for reaching out your on air. Hey. How's it going? Good to hear the music on the radio or heard of the guy. He's got some good music there and I listened to a lot of native American art artists. Different genres and it's. Music that you're putting out there. Keep up the good job. Over here in East Lake Minnesota the WGC s fine to act. Station. Good to hear you guys on the radio today. That's how I got thanks by right on glad fund lack is tuned in beautiful part of our nation. A. Thanks for calling Jamie and you can call in to talk directly with Kerry. We're giving away ten copies. We have nine left. Carry anything you want to tell Jamie before we go to break. I like that area A lot. I go up there and do shows from time to time. And The I think the tip of the the headwaters of the Mississippi River up there. And they They go all the way down to the Gulf of Mexico and I spent an awful lot of my time. traveling around that Valley and and. That's that's where this music comes from is Really inspired by all the musicians around Mississippi River. those waterlines are truly strong. Thank you for acknowledging those Kerry Hang Tight, folks. We got more head. We more music off of the album dockside. Saints Carry Marin is our July music maker phone lines are open, one, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four eight. The Washington. DC NFL team is under mounting pressure to change its name. Native American leaders and big corporate names like Nike and Pepsi are adding to that pressure. Is the end of offensive mascots for pro sports insight. We'll dive into this question on the next native America calling. If, you're hurting in your relationship and want to talk strong hearts. Native helpline is a confidential and anonymous domestic violence helpline for native Americans available at one, eight, four, four, seven, six to eighty, four, eighty, three, or connect with alive advocate by using the chat now button at strong hearts helpline dot org advocates offer support and referrals for resources daily seven am to ten PM central time. This program supported by the National Indigenous Women's Resource Center. I'm Tara. Gate would from his little Pueblo and this July were visiting with crow. Recording Artists Carry Morin dockside saints is the name of his latest album which were sharing with you today, and you can talk directly with Kerry by calling one, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight. We have nine CDs left for the next nine callers who get on air with commoner question. Question phone lines are open dial in one, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight carry joins us today, from Fort Collins Colorado and you know I carry these phone lines are lighting up someone to connect to you. Let's go say hi to John. Who was in reserve? Wisconsin tuned in on W.. O. J. B., John thanks for giving us a ring year on air. Hello, terra and K. thanks so much for this latest CD, it sounds. Awesome already and just a quick question. Take my answer online offline, but how nature I. See I liked your. Comments about the Mississippi draining culture down into the goal, and he's wearing where Louisiana. Music is just so it and grew only. How has nature informed your abilities to compose music whether it's writing notes or Or just melody Liens or Anything you'd care to share on that. Thanks again for the programming team Jon great question tear carry go ahead. Take it away. Well thanks John well. You know I spent a lot of time touring around the US and a Lotta Times even from the early days when? I used to travel around with a band. Playing. Mainly as the Mid West, I couldn't help, but look at the just the countryside. And wonder you know what it used to be like. centuries ago when there were no. Lines and there were no highways and I always felt a huge connection with. With nature and having grown up in Montana. in the sixties and Seventies. where it was, you know largely unspoiled. I. I think that I. Took it for granted. You know after after I graduated from high school and moved away. and. a started to travel more and more. It just. Made me, realize that a lot of the influence that I got about songwriting. And Music in general. came from the music that. I was surrounded with in Montana and And, how music too and traditional music? Always been a part of my life and it's. you know whether you can hear it obviously. it's still there. It's still a huge part of my life. Well! It is just some strong stuff. That tier brewing up their carry again John. Thank you for giving us a ring. We now go to Suzanne. Who is in Wasa? Alaska listening in on K. NBA Suzette. Thank you for calling. Go ahead. You're connected to carry. Hi. How fear! We love good music and really really a vacuum. If you come, visit us. All Right Susan. Thank you for your call. enjoy the music. Let's keep going clear in Albuquerque. New Mexico tuned in on key UNM Clare. Thanks for giving US ring. You're on air. At Low oh! Gosh My Gosh. I, you know dude. I. Probably? Did it? Gosh I love it I love and when you come into Albuquerque. All Right? There's two invitations. Carry anything you want to share. Yeah, well. We've been trying to get to Alaska for a while and which trying to get back down to Albuquerque I play down there quite lot actually and We'd since I've been playing solo shows. we've really been concentrating on the east coast, but we. We'd love to come back in New Mexico. Who I love Lantos and I love planning and Santa. Fe and especially love Planning Albuquerque thanks to that in by. We'll We'll take you up on that. Very nice, we'll speak in Santa Fe. We're going caller. WHO's there tuned in on Kfi? Am here in New Mexico. We got Gary Gary's online welcome Gary. Hey Gary. How are you? Kids Gary Farmer. Brothers. They hear your radio. I've been looking so forward to the album and. If all my left love to Celeste and What's the? What's it like playing live music these days? Are you just doing zoom or you're getting out there for real? Thank you, we're. We're getting out there. For Real Gary facebook. That's. Right, that's kind of our. That's our Goto these days We we have actually cancelled some gigs. And we've had other gigs. Cancel on us, but I just don't want to be a part of that you know creating. a crowd. So. We're GONNA. Wait it out and AND WHEN WE DO A. Look forward to. Plan with you again. Yeah, for sure. And I give all my love just so that's been good luck with the album, I'll be listening. Thank you brother. Gary so good to hear your voice wishing you well, and there you go when you have a fellow musician in a bad one at that calling in and telling you, your tunes are Great Carey High Feeling. Oh well I I always appreciate. Gary's company He. He was up here working Oh Jeez I WANNA say less February ish. I happen to be in the studio with some friends so Called Gary and asked him if he wanted to come over and and participate. So we got, we got tracks sitting. In Boulder. That we created and Don't really. have any way of getting that stuff yet, but we're going to keep working on it. So now while we're ready for it, carry. It was a fun time. Good and Thinking about releasing music during these times you've made a special decision in. Tell me more about that and again folks if you WanNa talk to carry calling right now. One, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight is a number. We have five CDs left glad. Kerry. Well. We had just finished mastering these. Tracks in Nashville Tennessee. about the time that the pandemic. was revealed to US and We had planned on being down in the. Southern United States. Until April. And as as. Things got more obviously dangerous and serious. We cancelled Steph and came home. And mastering the tracks is pretty much the last step of the process. and we got home. And we talked to our publicist. About a release date and we were wary of releasing it during this -mergency. And he advises us to go ahead and and release it because he felt like the number of releases that happen. As the pandemic ease up is going to be so huge. That, it would be really easy to get lost in the shuffle, so we went ahead and took his advice We picked the release date. Of August seventh and radio. release just happened on the first of July, so you can hear it on the radio. You can't buy it until the seventh of August, but. I'm so happy that we took advice because people are really taken to this recording. And What else do you have to do, but you know listen to new music. Carry The music that you find during these times I think they get another layer of meaning in especially if you find songs that are about strength or healing, or maybe even just knowing how to look at things in a different way, they carry a lot more to in knowing that these sounds are coming out during these times. It's really encouraging and I think that takes kind of leads us into this next song. I WANNA. Share with listeners because it does have a message with it. We Have Valley of the chiefs ready to go. Tell us a little bit about tear carry. The chiefs is a song that I. Released previously. On a album, a couple of years ago, and the story of the song is actually a true story it was. given to me as a child during my naming ceremony. In Crow Agency Montana when I was about four years old. And the family called on. A family elder to recount a story. And That elder was my great great grandmother. Who at the time was about one hundred and six years old? And She told the story of when she was a teenager. the. Out with some friends. and. was happened upon by five. Warriors from a neighboring tribe and they were these girls were kidnapped. And The further that they got after after they were kidnapped. From the valley. They all realize that the outcome of this. If they survived was NOT GONNA BE! A positive so. They found the strength to overcome. These warriors, and they took their horses and Enron back. And my great. Grandmother told me at that time that with the story means. You always have the power within you to overcome any obstacles that come up in your lifetime. And she wanted that story to to be with me all my life and remind me that We all have the power to do. Seemingly impossible things. And It's yeah, it's always been with me. Now it can be with you. This is value of the cheese by Kerry Marin. And I. With fans on. Live, four ever. Travel the trail in the. A. Long. five-man. NATO good. The, Long leave. Traveling is capped. Nine. Data and found. A Crash. died. Huh. Cap Slept. Tonight was. Live. Well, we are really proud to bring you some different type storytelling today. Let's go in here from another one of our callers. We have Conrad. Who is on the line in Ambler? Alaska tuned in on KOTC. Thanks for Calling Conrad. You're on air. Good morning just. Delayed the. Hand I believe is used. Bringing fresh. Own the. American people we are suffering from pandemic. Kobe and the guys use it is. Larry Honking and very I'm writing. And I came to come to Alaska and. Off Is skill. I have a question for the guy. Would like to ask him who cast Kim how to stay guitar or was the self taught. The gets part. Conrad. Thank you for giving us a ring there. In Alaska A- carry co hit. Thanks, Conrad and I look forward to shake in your hands there we Lived in a rural area in Montana when I was a child. And my first instrument was actually piano and I did from my father and an older brother Have a pretty good idea of how a guitar works. But I I kind of just made it up I. I knew how core they're supposed to sound and I I always had a pretty good year as a kid. and. I invented Get their played for myself, because we lived in such a rural area of much of the time I was there by myself and didn't have much else to do. But music was a huge part of my upbringing. The albums that my folks listen to were largely country and Western. kind of old timey country tunes, and then the current folk music that my brother left behind when he went to college. And that was an awful lot of Acoustic Guitar. Music. And You just tried my best emulate what I heard on record. Wow, in knowing that so much of this was just you discovering the abilities that you had or just how far you could take! An instrument is really exciting because I know. A lot of people can relate to that and especially being introduced to different music styles. We'll hear more from carry. Hang tight. Both lines are open. Support by southwestern Indian Polytechnic Institutes Early Childhood. Education program providing an affordable pathway for the next generation of native teachers who will meet the unique educational needs of native students cities early. Childhood Education Associates degree is an all inclusive. Mentorship for success in education in an intertribal learning, community, Info and application that s I P, I dot e., d. u. under academics, then programs fall application. Deadline is August seventh. Tuning in today here on native America calling in we are turning it over to the music carry Marin. He comes to us from the crow nation today. He is in Fort. Collins Colorado where he calls home, and we are taken in samples of his new album dockside saints. Got A few left. If you want to join us if you want to talk to carry one, eight, hundred, nine, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight, is the number carry? Thank you for being here and you know what? I'm GONNA connect you to another caller. We have Adrian dialing in from Hamish. Pueblo tuned in today on K. UNM. In New Mexico Adrian thanks for giving us a ring. Go ahead! You're on air. Dexter I, just wanted to say. Terry Moran. You're one of my favorite musicians man. I have to admit you both. Let's be quite a bit I wanted to congratulate you on your your new CD. I met you back in mid mid nineties touring day tall and back then I had a band called rhetoric. It was really excited because we're could using a lot of music and way you your professionalism of your abandoned April. Atherton world music with reggae Rocket Blues really blew my mind and I've been falling since. Very nice and now this latest one. What do you think of Adrian so far what you heard? Some I'm a big Fan of New Orleans music and you know leaders. That kind of stuff and it's really just kind of cool to hear that sounds and. I can't wait to hear. The rest of that movie got one more track for you before this hours of Adrian. Thank you for giving us a ring. We now hear from David. Who is in The Likud array community there in Wisconsin tuned in on Wj Beam Ryoji Way Community David. Thank you for giving us a ring year on air. Buju running. How are you doing today? The. I I I worked with artists who've gone on native performers and I was wondering what what what Jerry thinks about the emergence of spotify Pandora and all these other platforms. I mean when I go to Walmart. I! Don't even think I can buy a CD anymore. What what kind of advice or a strategy might? Might we use as native artists to to get our music out there? Now that the the old delivery mechanisms are changing you know when digits and call around I get a CD, and it'd be great so I'm just wondering what's what's new now and how what? What do you think other artists chip do? Get on. David thank you for asking. Carry in folks if you want to join. US got a couple more CDs one, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, four, eight is a number. We got him to share with you. Go ahead Kerry. Thanks to that question David I've. I've been recording albums since the late eighties. And I never really had the opportunity to have the assistance of a record company. So when I was doing this on my own back in those days. We would record albums. Not, even master, and really we get done in the studio. And make copies of them and and Holum around and sell them at shows. I, Don I Had I had a record company. I would know more about what dealing with the the business on more. A more professional level was like but I can tell you right now that what we do We do everything that we can in the absence. Of Record Company is we hire publicists. We we use the best mastering facilities and the best studios. And the best staff that we can find. And we do it all on our own. and. I think that that's really something that Maybe artists these days that don't have access to. a record company. can do and with the Internet You can beat your own record company and still. Get music out that reaches the entire planet? In carry when we think about the quality of the work to you. Did something really special and and I was thinking of? As you're telling the story about reaching out to different musicians and. Artists can relate to this to where you created an opportunity to use some of the best tools out there you know for carvers at sharp knife. Far Beater some you know the whitest freshest and softest Buckskin to beat on or you know our jewelers that Nice Precious Stone. That's just perfect, and then what you can do with it when you have materials that are at that level. Really exciting. I! Think you know other people can relate to that and for you, Kerry. Having all these things at your creative fingers. What do you think about what was unleashed there in that studio and I understand that studio is a special place to where many famous people have recorded including BB king. Tell me a little bit about that. Carry and again folks that two more CDs, yet it all now. One, eight, hundred, nine, six, two, eight, four, eight. We look forward to hearing from you. Go ahead Kerry. Well tear the A lot of the songs that are on this album were written in different parts of the world I wrote some of the stuff in Europe. And some of the stuff on the road and some of the stuff here in Colorado. And The musicians that we called on. For this particular recording all based around Lafayette Louisiana. Leeann Zeno Buckwheat. ZYDECO DOES BASS player for his entire career. Brian Breakneck who plays drums for sunny landrace. and. A whole bunch of other guys core alert ledet. A good friend of mine plays Accordion Eric Adcock plays. Piano. Bo Thomas Place John Full. from the doctor John Ban for many years, plays guitar and keep Blair. Who is local? Guitar Hero Played Guitar and slept Yorio. Help. Sing the songs and. You know we've been traveling that part of the country for so many years and like I, said these these songs are created. around Europe and around. The United States. And! I it's just. An honor for me to be able to take these songs. And cardamom around and delivers to different parts of the world and share it with other people You were saying Sharing our has always been A. Huge part of our culture. And it's it's really a thrill for me to continue on with that and take part. In. Our community and the music community. And meet all the other fantastic native artists that we. Need. around the globe. In and now you know when we think of the ability to just shoot music around the globe, especially with a lot of these different concerts that are going on online and people are reaching new audiences I. Think you know we get to also share indigenous story this way, and this is your indigenous story. It's a fun one carry on, go ahead and connected to another caller. We got bridget on the line in Albuquerque new. Mexico tune in on Ku and bridget year talking to carry. Hi How great I I love your music and I mostly called so that they could get a CD. I'm a huge fan of the show on. I learned so much from the show, really important part of life here in Albuquerque and I just really appreciate you. Use it every piece for today, so thank you. Well, thank you, bridget and carry what it's about having fun to. Let's go ahead and hear some more of your work, and it's surely is full of a lot of fun This is Jamie Ray by Carrie, Maureen or July music maker off of the album dockside saints. Oh. Okay. A. From Own Your. Blow. Bama. Way. Along. Lamar So. Are you dancing? Because this music? Gotcha out of your seat well I'm happy for that. Let's go back to our phone lines. We have Robert WHO's on the line in Alaska. Tune on Kmby, our W Robert. Thank you for giving us a ring. Go ahead. You're on air. Yes Good Morning I've heard people have if you're ever going to Alaska. Those good to hear new music and Extending invitations for you to come. You hope you. Are Right well. There's another invitation. Kerry better get to Alaska. It's starting to sound like that. I've only been to Alaska once and thoroughly enjoyed it and we look forward to visiting. And Sharing Music again as soon as we can. All right well, let's get more of this track again. Jimmy Ray by Kerry Maureen. There you have it another one from Kerry Marin are July music maker and carry this one as a fund story to, and and especially for our song makers out there of using everything that you experience into the music mate and tell us a little bit about it. Yeah Jamie Ray was Really the product of You know many years of listening to a lot of different artists. songs and stories. and. The film industry I'm on I'm sort of a film buff I. I really appreciate. The stories that you can present. With film and that Song actually came from the opening of the film. I was watching and Just the image of A solitary Man Walking down a muddy road. And the whole story just developed. From that I. I didn't really pay attention to the much of the rest of the movie, but that just that image and What a created in my mind is the I spent so much time in the south. And really highly influenced by all the. Musicians and visual artists. and. all these artists that I come in contact with. around the south. And I, I think that. They're all part of that story and I'm just so glad that you're playing. It and people get a chance to hear it. Thank you so much. Chance to dance to and so carry. We're getting ready to wrap things up. If people do want to continue the conversation, or people want invite you to Alaska word. They find you. In Fort Collins Colorado you. You can find me on facebook pretty easily. my website is carry more in Dot Com. And I was like you're from people We always respond to people that send US messages. So feel free to reach out. And when we get, a chance will will come out and say hi. And I and I really look forward to. Getting back on the road and sharing music again very nice well I. DO appreciate you being here with us and giving us an early preview of this album which don't go on sale till. August, but thank you for also sharing it with our listeners today a thank you carry more in from the crow nation and the name of the album. Gin is dockside saints in thanks to carry in Maple Street music for providing those CDs so that we could pass onto our callers today i. wish you the best and tomorrow. When we go live, we'll be focusing on. On challenges to the Washington football teams name and the Mascot. If you are already talking about this, bring it to our airwaves tomorrow. We look forward to hearing what to what everybody has to say about this tune in again tomorrow. Show starts at one PM. Eastern time I'm Tara Gatewood. Thank you for spending this music maker with us right here on our native airwaves. Smoking gave me COPD which makes it harder and are for me to breathe I. Have a tip for you. If your doctor gives you five years to live, spend it talking with your grandchildren explained to him that your. Not going to be around anymore to share his wisdom and as love I haven't figured out how to do that yet. I'm running out tire. COPD makes it harder and harder to breathe and can cause death. You can quit for free help. Call one eight hundred quit now a message from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. This I h tribe with the Purba Indian tell senators. Don. ETAIN. Most our show up at the healthcare dot Gov want. Of One, eight, hundred, three, one, eight, two, five, nine, six, not been done I can do. New. For Medicare and Medicaid services don't been needs to look at our L.. Native! America calling is produced in the. National Native Voice Studios in Albuquerque. New Mexico by Quantum. Broadcast Corporation and Native Nonprofit Media Organization. Funding is provided by the corporation for public broadcasting with support from the Public Radio Satellite Service Music is by Brent Michael Davids native, one. Native, American Radio Network.
Gather, Learn, Grown: The Garden Bloggers Fling
"Sir. This is cultivating place conversations on natural history and the human impulse to garden from nor state public radio in northern California. I'm Jennifer jewel. This week is our final episode in the casual series on the many ways in which we gardeners gather. Learn and grow together we're joined today by Pam Penick of Austin, Texas, author of the garden blog digging and founder of the garden bloggers fling in two thousand eight Judy seaborn co owner of botanical interest seeds in Denver is organizing. This year's eleventh annual fling in Denver, Colorado. Stay with us. The blogging aspect of it. It's about those three things. I think it's about writing. It's about photographing because it is about gardening. Most people do photograph, and it's about creating that sense of community for people the community part is the critical part of what the fling is all about. This is cultivated place. I'm Jennifer jewel for as long as I've had a garden. I've kept a garden journal for as long as I've hosted of public radio program about gardening natural history. I've had a digital garden program journal or blog a term coined for describing online web based journals or logs as far back as the late nineteen ninety s garden blogs is both a sources of information communication in community really took off in the early two thousands. And they remain a vibrant source of connection in the gardening community. They are a primary source of information about plants plant care garden design and garden events on both local and global levels. I know very few botanical garden or horticultural organizations that don't host some kind of blog with some kind of frequency. Today. We check in with a group that takes this one step further. They're known as the garden bloggers fling an annual event at which garden bloggers from around the United States and Canada gather in a destination to visit gardens talk plants and gardens and talk blogging. It's an intense and community oriented educational opportunity while there are some restrictions to participation the group provides an interesting model for assault. Joining us to talk about the garden bloggers fling, our founder of the fling. Pam Penick from Austin, Texas, who has for years written her award winning blog digging were also joined by Judy seaborn co owner of botanical interest seeds in Denver, Colorado and writer of the blog in the garden with Judy four botanical interests as she says, she and her fling organizing committee are throwing a party this. Summer hammond. Judy join us today via Skype from their respective home. Garden regions, welcome Pam and Judy. Thanks for having me on Jennifer. Thank you. I'm going to get started with you giving a little deeper introduction to yourselves and to what you do and your affiliation with the garden bloggers fling. I'm going to start with you Pam in Austin, Texas. Well, I'm a garden writer. I've published a couple of books, and I published the blog digging which I've been doing since two thousand six I'm one of the founders of the flaying and serve on the advisory board for the flaying and was one of the hosts for last year's fling in Austin. And what about you Judy? I'm a co owner of botanical interest seed packet company of attending the flame for eight of the ten years. I believe and have been hosting the in the garden with Judy blog on botanical interests website held on. Have you been writing your blog for botanical interests Judy since we started the online presence about six eight years ago? And it seems like there's a resurgence to blogging again in the recent years. Pam what got you started on writing your blog, and what does your blog focus on? I got started because I was looking around in two thousand four I think doesn't five when I was really starting to garden earnest, and I didn't see a lot of information out there for bloggers or up for gardeners in my part of the country here in Austin, or or Texas there were a lot of gardening magazines, which I read, and I was getting all kinds of design ideas from those. But I wasn't seeing information specifically tailored to this area's far as plants as far as whether as far as when you could start, you know, cutting things back and planting different plants. And so I was looking around online for that kind of information. I found two local bloggers, and I started to read them everyday. They were they were the I would say the pioneers of blogging for Austin, and I got so much great information from them. And I saw that people were commenting on their blogs and the conversations that were going on. And I wanted to be part of. That community. I didn't have any friends at the time who were gardeners. I don't recall that I had any family who were gardeners who were living here at the time. And so I saw the blog as kind of my entry into this garden community, and in just a fun way to to share what I was doing in my own garden as I was taking my baby Gardner steps. And so I started my blog for that reason and found that it was rewarding on a creative level. I got to become a photographer for my blog, and that was really rewarding. And I got to really practice writing for that. So it really kind of brought out all these skills that I didn't know I was even going to be working on when I started my blog and might have been intimidated to to start it if I had really known, but but it was a great practice for those things. In the rewards that came from that just kept giving me reasons to keep logging for wanting to community that I found became part of was just a tremendous source of joy for me. And it still is and those online friendships became rely friendships, and then that led to job opportunities. I it was garden design which I did for a number of years. And then I started moving into garden writing, which I still do that all came from the blog the blog for me has been a huge part of my life. And as you say, socially, and creatively, and business, development wise, all very rewarding. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. What about you? Judy talk about what got your blog started in this purpose. It serves for for your work. We really started botanical addressee packets because if found there is so with a lack of real indepth information in CPAC up on how to grow. We kind of started the blog as another avenue of expanding out and reaching a more personal level to gardeners teaching them how to garden by seed. I've always wanted our packets to sound. Like, you're talking to girlfriend and a blog is a perfect way to do that really just reach out and touch people on more personal level than you can even writing in packet. Describe botanical interest for listeners who might not be familiar with it. So they understand its mission as a business. Our mission is to inspire also educate gardeners started with arm instead of photographs beautiful botanical illustrations on the on the front of the packet. Because I feel like art is they're inspiring and gardening is an art form. That on the front of pack. It's really put a real quick our phrase kind of into excited about that variety. But the big thing is when you open the inside of the packets on sunset called us. The mini encyclopedias. I just love. We have historical information, very detailed botanical information. All the components that make a gardener a gardener week are for food. So we have recipes in that regard in for craft projects with like how to make a Holly hawk doll had to make a sunflower hut. Lots of fun fun projects for kids in end announcing. Design ideas, what flowers put with other ones? Look, the titular nice together, but our pack. It was all about inspiring educating the Gardner and helping the whole generation of gardeners. The did not get information handed down like path ham said, you know, maybe your mom near grandparents didn't teach you how to garner that. You wanna learn how we're trying to reach that generation teach them hard garden and what year did you found botanical interests? I can't be this old hiring. Hiring. Art. We are actually having our twenty fifth anniversary does next season. Awesome. And so the blog for for botanical interest really served as as you said a an expansion and another avenue by which to get some of the information that is so beautifully curated on your seed packets out into the world and two people in this other format. It was really just such a natural fit continue harvesting of the passion of gardening in a personal sort of way. So then we come to the garden bloggers fling after to be hosting Denver. I you are. I'm excited that you hosting it in Denver. I I don't know if you know, Colorado is my home state. So I'm very excited, but the garden bloggers fling kind of gets to one of the great sometimes downfalls of garden blogging, which is that as garden blog and garden blog communities started to almost take the form of like garden clubs or horticultural societies on local level. Certainly you you started to miss or those of us who were deeply involved in them. We miss the in person contact, and so I'm going to go to you, Pam, what what inspired you to get together with a group of people and start this garden bloggers fling. Am I am? Close. Yeah. It's it is funny to think about yeah. How you warm these niches online, and then and then you can expand it to offline in real life. And have it be this bigger thing? So back in two thousand seven garden blogging was still fairly new here in Austin. There were there were more and more every year there were new bloggers keeping track of all of them. And and started to organize in person meet ups for those of us in Austin because we realized we were probably not psycho killers. And the how you kind of hide it. I when you're when you're blogger, at least a lot of us did in those days, you didn't have a picture on your blog of yourself. And you people were a lot more suspicious. I think of the internet, but we came out of our shells and started to meet up in person realize this was a group of people who may be regarding in different ways. And maybe they had different conditions regarding end. But we all had this thing in common which was gardening and writing about it, and it was impassioned for us. And it was so. Fun that. Anyway, I was I was planning of thing. I was planning the spring two thousand eight local meet up and it occurred to me that it would be fun. You know, as I'm following all these other blogs around the country, it'd be fun to just invite any blogger who wanted to come to to Austin and say, hey, come join us. You know, we're doing these in person meet ups, and it's really fun. And if you wanna come come we'll throw a party for you, basically. And so I I threw the idea out there to the local bloggers and three people jumped right on board. And we became the first planning committee, and we really cannot through that event together in just about a month. We were thinking about it in December. We started really seriously planning in January, and we hosted everyone here in April. So it was a very much, you know, quick and dirty flaying compared to what it is today where it's now three and a half days of a lot of really great activities. But it was it was amazing and the real question for us at that time. Was is anybody gonna come? Thought we really weren't. Sure. And I had set out my my goal for the event. I was like, hey, if two people come from out of state, I will consider that victory. And ultimately, we have people represented from twelve states. We have thirty seven bloggers who came and it was really just for a one day event. We had a couple of very casual meet ups with people who came early, but the main event was just one day of activities, and and thirty seven people that we really didn't know, and we didn't know them in real life. Absolutely. They came and joined us, and it was so much fun. We were like we have to do this every year and the miracle for me is that every year a blogger or bloggers have stepped up from another city and said, yeah, they raise their hand. I'll do that. And it's a big deal. It's a big thing to host. And it just it's amazing to me at touches, my heart that people still volunteered a hostess in it is super fun. But it's a lot of work. And here we are twelve years later and Judy and Jennifer are putting this fling on for us and. These are volunteers who are volunteering their time to do this. And it's it's just it's super fun every year, and it's amazing to me that is still going on. Yeah. And you are not kidding about the amount of effort that goes into planning such an event, but at them I event that one day in which you got thirty seven people, and you represented twelve different states at that point. How many people were in your immediate garden blog group that had meet ups every now and then? In the Austin group that was meeting up. I'd say there were about eight to ten people at that time that were regular attendees. And by the time, the really it was exploding. And by the time the fleeing happened here, I would say we had closer to about twenty maybe twenty bloggers, and I'm trying to remember how many of those came to the flying. Of course, you know, every year when you have the fling the regional representation is pretty high because it's just easier for people who live in area to get to the flame. So we did have a lot of Texas bloggers there were bloggers who came from from outside of Austin, as well, you know, there are some Dallas in Houston in various areas. In addition to the to the other states were represented and that one day event, describe what you what you put together that first year and yet described that because I'd like to kind of get to what it was that both fed and expanded the peop-. Who attended to the point that it built this this inspirational momentum to keep it going and take on this effort because the rewards were. So high. What I thought we needed to get people to come going to sales pitch mode. Was we needed a well known blogger or to to come and speak? That was kind of what I had in mind that was going to be the draw to get people to come to Austin. I actually looked back. Now, I think people would have come anyway because people were hungry for this kind of event. But Carol Michael of majoring gardens was an is a very well known garden blogger at the time she had a huge following and I- prevailed upon her to come and and lead a lead a discussion group during the fling and Kathy Purdy of cold climate gardening who also had hadn't has a very large following came and spoke to us about the technical side of blogging. So Carol led a discussion on the social side of blogging and Kathy led a discussion on the technical side of blogging. And that was kind of my sales pitch to people to get them to come like, they're gonna get to meet, you know, Caroline, Kathy. And they were my lure. And so I was so glad when they both agreed to come and speak and not really speak. But lead a discussion group, and then around that we put together a day of a lunch with the speaker, a local speaker here, the blogger who was so inspirational to me as one of the pioneer garden bloggers Austin, his name was Tom Spencer. And he still local gardening personality. He spoke to us during lunch. We went and visited an amazing local garden, and then toured the lady bird Johnson Wildflower center and went to a a a beautiful nursery. Here called the natural Gardner. And then we had a welcome dinner the day before where we had. I mean, this is how it was thrown together. We we didn't have a party room for that one. We we didn't have meals put together everybody ordered their own meals thirty seven different checks for them. And it's just it was it was really crazy that it all worked as it. Did we didn't have buses for transportation? We didn't have a central location for the hotel because there was no way to get a hotel like that on such short notice. So we just got a generic. You know, hotel off the interstate that advice date at with no bus transportation. Most people do not have cars, but we got all the local bloggers to drive us all around. So we were all carpooled for that day to the various sites network grade. And then after we'd done the tours we came back to my house for a happy hour in the garden, and I served Mexican Martinez. And then we went onto a barbecue dinner. And that's what it was so fun. And I mean, I think you can see in just the offerings that you put together that first year that you addressed all these different kind of needs in hungers that people might be be drawn to both professional development and social and horticultural and cultural knowledge in educational expansion for everybody. But when you look back at that first year, and you realize the excitement that had been. Sort of catalyzed in this group. What what do you think was the primary? Source of that excitement. What was it that people were looking for at that point? That was so so needed and welcomed. It was the community for sure the fling is about the people the gardens a lot of people think of it as a garden tour, but it's really not is not a garden tour per se. It's about touring gardens with your fellow bloggers, and the blogger aspect of it is that does two things it's people who are very passionate about gardening passionate enough to create this publication about it, essentially. And and also people who who do want to write and photograph about gardens, and so it's different than going on public tour where you would just be out there with people who maybe are passionate about gardening too. But there's something about the the blogging aspect of it. It's about host three things. I think it's about writing about photographing because it is about gardening. Most people do photograph, and it's about creating that sense of community for people and the community part is the critical part of what the fling is. All about I honestly think we could just we could sit in a room and have all these people there, and it would be fun because it really really is great to finally meet these people that maybe you've been commented on their blogs for years reading what they're doing. And then you get to meet them in person, and it's an instant community. And that's what we're hungry for. Pam panic is an avid gardener and Gordon blogger from Austin, Texas, her award winning blog in large part about the nature of gardening in her climate is called digging in two thousand eight as a way to connect with other garden bloggers. She founded what is now an annual gathering of garden bloggers from around the country, and it's called the garden bloggers fling last year, the fling turned ten and this year it heads to Denver stay with us. We'll be right back after a break to hear more. Happy March my friends in like, a lion and out like a lamb. That's what they say. Right. Oh, my goodness in the northern hemisphere. We are so close to our hours of daylight equaling and numbering greater than our hours of darkness. The winter season is in its final stretches here here on warmest mornings. You can tell that the birds feel it handle your soil ever, so gently on warmest dry ish morning, and you can tell that the soil is preparing observe your companion trees and shrubs closely and little buds are swelling along the lively notes. I know this I can see it and hear it and yet we've just come through five days of dense, gray, rain, six inches total. Another round is on its way in generally wet winter which is good for just about everything. I know, but I'm not gonna kid you it can feel very slow getting to spring right about. Now. I love an honor all of the seasons. But I'm ready for the turning of this season. Are you feeling it if so maybe I can help with the idea of offering out a little boost to help you get to spring or in the southern hemisphere. Get to fall indeed to help you get through the inevitable voles that come upon us in every season every month cool to eating place has created an extra bit of garden. Audio for our generous donors, a thank you in the form of some bonus garden life love from us directly to your ears. We literally cannot do this work without our donors to make your tax deductible donation of support go directly to cultivating place dot com and click the support button at the top right hand corner of every page on the site for all of you who donate thirty dollars or more before the vernal equinox on March. Twentieth of this year, you will receive by Email a downloadable link to the cultivating place theme song sung with such beauty by the duo known as mom us. If you've never heard those songs, it's music and Lear IX, it will add an definite spring to your heart and step to be able to play it in its fullness whenever you'd like, I know you'll love it. And you will sing it out loud. 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With everyone, you know, your garden club, your book club, the checkout clerk at the market show them how to listen and subscribe to the show on their funds show them our Instagram account along with sunlight, regular watering care and attention word of mouth helps this podcast you love, and that you count on grow and thrive now back to our conversation with Pam Penick and Judy seaborn and the garden bloggers Flink. This is cultivating place. I'm Jennifer jewel today. We're in our fourth and final episode of a casual series on the many ways we as gardeners gather. Learn and grow together in our passions and practices garden, blogs and garden bloggers make up a large diverse and passionate cross section within the gardening community since two thousand eight they have been gathering on mass loud noisy. Happy mass for the garden bloggers fling. We're back after a break to hear more about the Ling's history its mission and its upcoming event in Denver Colorado this June. Welcome back. It's really true to that. It's not just a garden tour. Yeah. You can tell by the auditory level that you want. This is the loudest group of people you've ever heard. They're all communicators. I walked up stairs. You're aware is ready. Just to turn around there. They are real. It's a roar. The roar Judy that that brings me to you describe the first one you heard about and then the first one you attended and what kind of took you there. And then what what you brought away from it of the things that Pam talking about is what really did draw me to the flaying. I was a nervous Nellie doubling my toe into blogging and very shy about it. And I was the miracle for me was that they did allow me to join. I was so grateful because I was very nervous about doing. It didn't know all the tech card or what it was also changing so rapidly the tech part. How you present yourself? What's? What is it between, you know, commercial blog versus a they're the people doing it just for fun, and how that would gonna fit together. What was kosher not kosher? Why was very grateful to be able to hang out with these this group and just learn I just I just wanted to learn. Yeah. What was your first fling? What year and what city I knew your it asked me that. And remembering his not my strong suit hamlet was it. Baltimore. Baltimore was eight years ago. It might have been buffalo buffalo. So got a handbook right in front of me. Buffalo was in two thousand ten that sounds about right. That sounds about. Right. I love going get so hyped up. It's like, okay this. You know, gets the energy is still here it, it's it's exciting and other people like that. It are not crazy. All right. So in two thousand eight in buffalo Pam about how many people so the first one was in Austin in two thousand seven sick note, two thousand eight. Yeah, we started planning in two thousand seven the winner of two thousand seven than we had it in April of two thousand eight that was awesome. And that was Austin and in buffalo. Nope. Then after that, it was Chicago, okay? In two thousand nine that was in that was in the spring and just to clarify our about our name. We were we Ridgely called it garden bloggers spring fling because we had it in the spring headed in April. And then Chicago kinda followed suit with their fling in may. But by the time, it moved to buffalo in two thousand ten they had it in the summertime because the idea is to host it when your city is looking its best known the gardens are at their fullest or best or whatever you wanna see. And so we dropped the spring from the name, and it just became garden bloggers fling. But so after buffalo into dozen ten it went to Seattle, and then it went to ashville. North carolina. And then San Francisco, and then Portland, Oregon, and then Toronto was our first fling outside the US, and then went to Minneapolis and in two thousand seventeen it was in the Washington DC area, which was dubbed the capital region fling and then in two thousand eighteen for the ten th anniversary it came back to Austin than two hundred nineteen. We'll be Denver nice. So about how many people attended Austin and the ten th anniversary, and what are you expecting? So I'll have you answer that Pam, and then we'll see what we're what we're looking at for Denver. You think we had room for right around one hundred bloggers, and I think we ultimately ended up with somewhere in the nineties. I don't have the exact number off the top of my head. The limiting factor is really you have to tour buses and buses hold about fifty people each and the new, you know, you have your planners as well. So that's kind of the limiting factor in what in. What the upper number can be and. Yeah. So it's kinda bounces around anywhere from typically I'd say between seventy five and and you know, ninety something bloggers each year. And so is that about what you're expecting in Denver in June, Judy. I'm just hoping we don't have to turn people away. We've already sold sixty seven seats, and we just opened up a few weeks ago. I said something to just Denver this this tour, right? I'm I'm a party, man. This would be fun. We're going to be able to cover three different cities over three days will be up in Fort Collins one day, and we'll be meeting with Lawrence Springer and seeing her new installation at the gardens, spring creek and number of private gardens there as well. They will be heading up Q the boulder area. Being with the Linda Voigt a. Well, known keep she's the rock garden society. The number of other outside gorgeous gardens team the tea house for lunch downtown boulder. And then we'll have day in Denver penny Oti with the Denver botanic gardens. They're also kind of posting this with me. Oh grave. I know. I just I mean fantastic. We kinda got the who's who of Colorado gardening healing on this tour with Jim Borland. And Dan Johnson. Also curator will be seeing his private garden penalties. Private garbage is on nine news. Does the garden segment there will be seeing his private garden? It's going to be a lot of fun. Yeah. And with a hoedown. Very nice. So the gardens the and that will be a Chatfield. Yes. Nice. And of course, June is a really beautiful month in the state of Colorado, and those are fabulous destination. But it's the state of Colorado. You'd never know what the weather is going to turn. There's always it's I chose that weekend. Consi- up the best odds of it being great. But sometimes you have this weird pause between spring garden and your summer garden, and I'm hoping we're not gonna hit that pause. Yeah. Yeah. All the screen things are fading. But the summer things have kicked in yet. We'll see, but thankfully, the garden personalities always shine bright. So we'll share it. Especially though that group you just mentioned. So that's that's excellent. So the criteria for attending the fling at this point is him. Basically, you just need to be an active garden blogger and by active. We just main that you need to be a posting on your blog like once every six months at at a minimum and your blog needs to be at least six months old. And that that that latter rule about the blog at least six months old is really just to is to allow people who have been blogging for a while to get a spot on the tour. So that I mean, no, it's very appealing tour were all blogging about the upcoming fling tour, and there might be a temptation for someone to start a blog just in order to come. But the idea is that these are actually. Bloggers who who do enjoy blogging, and we all wanna meet up together. So that's what it is. It's really pretty simple just being active garden blogger with the blog. That's at least six months old. And is there a membership fee? Is there a flat fee? How does that work? There's no fee to to be part of the community. Of course. I mean, that's the beauty of blogging, but to attend the fling each year, the planning committee sets the cost for that. I want to ask both of you a little bit Judy mentioned it in one for earlier answers to to a question that I posed and she she mentioned the idea of kind of being on a learning curve and waiting to see how the field of blogging would kind of play out in terms of how did commercial versus personal versus the different kinds of blogs. There are out there how they would shake out in the field and just like any part of. Any field. But especially maybe the gardening field. This one is is growing and dynamic and trying to meet different needs as it evolves. The and I I mentioned earlier in our conversation. This feeling that I have had as a garden communicator that the ways in which we learn are are relatively consistent and relatively traditional. We we get together in groups, and we do things we take classes, we read books we follow other gardeners and garden communicators, and we learn but the garden blogging field seemed like it had a little bit of a downturn with the uprise of social media. And now if heels like it's having a resurgence, I would love to hear your thoughts on this. Let's start with you Judy. I think I'll let him talk more about the resurgence part. But one thing I when you ask that question that popped up for me. Was after being with the late. The the folks I don't wanna say ladies, gentlemen, also with all the people on the bloggers fling. It made me realize there really isn't a difference between the commercial blog, and the personal blog has the commercial blog to me is a personal my even though I have commercial business. The blog is still very personal. I think just. The fact that it is a blog is it's a. Logging is a personal way of communicating. Yeah. What what about you? Pam. What do you see? I think I think judy's right. In the early days. There was some discussion about whether this should be for personal blogs and should people who were blogging for their business be part of that. And the easy answer that once we started all meeting is that they're all bloggers, and there's something wonderful about meeting people who are blogging for various reasons, some people may be just doing a blog about their home garden, and and they're not trying to create a guarding business around that they're just doing it for their own creativity and fun and record keeping community. And then there may be somebody who's blogging because they have garden designed business may be someone else blogs, and they're also doing guard writing and someone else's blogging for their seed business. So there's all different reasons to blog, and there are people behind each of those blogs. And when you bring them all together, you get this wonderful mishmash of p. People who are blogging in different regions in different conditions. They have different interests. Some people are all about the vegetables, some people are all about the ornamental 's. And when you get that mix of people together, he really creates synergy this creativity. You find people that maybe wouldn't have found just from their blogs, even so it kind of expand your community beyond the online community that maybe you came for which is which is wonderful as far as the, you know, the number of blogs. I do think it probably peaked a few years ago, you know, Facebook and Instagram is is instantaneous it's quick. It's easy. You take a pretty picture of garden, and you post it, and boom, you get comments on it, right, then, and that's really appealing as far as people wanting that sense of community and sharing around gardening side. Did see that the garden blogging community was contracting is kind of how I looked at it. But the people who really. Had you know, gotten a lot out of it. We're still there. Maybe they were posting a little less because they were spending more time on the other social media bed. But they were still there. But but I do see new blogs for me all the time. And so I'm not sure of the numbers. I don't really keep track of that. But every time we have a fling. There are brand new bloggers who come and they're you know, just the excitement that they that they show for being there in part of this community. It just reminds you of how was when you started yourself, and that's that's really refreshing, Judy seaborn is an avid gardener, Gordon blogger and co owner of botanical interest seeds in Denver, Colorado this year, she is one of the lead organizers and hosts of the annual garden bloggers fling June thirteenth through the sixteenth. When the group will convene and visit Gordon's and gardeners in Denver, Fort Collins and Boulder, Colorado, Judy and her husband founded botanical interests known for their beautiful and information rich seed packets, and which have been dubbed the encyclopedia of seed packets in. Effort to inspire an educate new gardeners. Judy sees her blog as an extension of this and the annual garden bloggers fling as another extension as well as celebration of the same. We'll be right back after a break to hear more. Hey, it's me over the course of our conversation today. Pam pennock mentions how personal gardens are at their very best. How intimate and personal? They are as expressions of ourselves. Our hopes our dreams and our struggles gardening. She mentions is an act of generosity and inviting others into your garden is an act of generosity trust and intimacy. I like this reminder, I think it's true and the articulation of it reminds me, and hopefully all of us to bring our best and highest cells to this interdependent relationship with our places and one another to be honest. It's what it feels like to share with you on these podcast breaks each week. They are an open view of my garden thinking self. They are meta gardening. They are quantum gardening. And I love meeting you all on this level together. We nature loving thoughtful gardeners in relationship here. Make a difference. Now back to our conversation with the community of garden bloggers who learned together virtually year round. And when they meet up in real life. Well, that's garden bloggers fling. This is cultivating place. I'm Jennifer jewel today were in our fourth and final episode in casual series on the many ways, we as gardeners gathered. Learn and grow together in our gardening passions and practices. The organizing committee for this year's garden bloggers fling, which will be held this coming June in Denver, Colorado, really wanted to show off the rich, cultural ecological and horticultural diversity of the regions gardens and gardeners. Bloggers will kick off their three days of learning. And torn at Denver's the grow house, a nonprofit urban farm in market located in north Denver. The mission of the grow house is to grow healthy community through food access production and education founded by Denver born, Adam Brock and Coby Gould, the grow house offers everything. From hands on volunteer work and affirm in training program to seed to seed summer leadership courses for teens who wanna learn more about building and sustaining healthy communities. Adam says, we are always trying to push the permaculture values of taking care of our community. Taking care of the ecosystems around us, making sure we have long term sustainability and redistributing what we have to whom ever need it most rather than hoarding it for ourselves gardening. After all is an intersectional space for people of all shapes sizes colors and hopes together and to grow. That's definitely worth cultivating. Welcome back when you each of you think about the the ways in which and I think Pam you really articulate this so beautifully in the beginning as to. To how your blog kind of you grew along with your blog and your blog demonstrated your growth as you went both as a writer, you're disciplined at it, your photography and your reach when you think about the garden fling, and the the the lessons that you might have garnered from visiting different cities or being with a different group of people describe maybe one of one or two of the ways that you felt like joining in on the garden bloggers fling has has taught you something and expanded you in some way, and if you have an anecdote for that, I would love to have you share that maybe I'll start with you. Pam. Going on. It is partly about. You know, you're meeting up at a new city every year. So you get to see a part of the country that you've never gardened in. Maybe you know, if you're going to this place, you may be never had a reason to visit before and suddenly you're saying these gardens that teaches you a lot about gardening in your own place. It just like travel teaches you about yourself, and where you live and your home. So does touring other gardens. Teach you about your own garden, and you start to see, oh, it's not, you know, the way I do it the way we do it here in Austin is not the way people do it everywhere. And you know, of course, I knew that when I started my blog because I saw the the Austin, and it's unique climate was not being represented in more national sources, but seeing that in person is really eye-opening, and it's the same way with the the people component meeting people who are doing different things is. Is wonderful. And it's it's exciting and there's professional networking that's going on. Maybe it's just your sharing anecdotes about your own backyard. Gardening somebody else who's doing the same thing. But I think there's something about bloggers. They always describe themselves as introverted, and I think that goes along with gardening and writing if you can be a gardener. You're probably comfortable spending long stretches of time alone in your garden because that's what it takes to keep garden. And if you're a writer, you probably spend a lot of time alone in your room, or at least with headphones in your ears blocking out all the noise, and you have to be comfortable with that. So people who gardening in writing are going to be super introverted. And yet they get on a plane or they jump in their car, and they go to this strange new city. They've never been to to meet all these strange new people every year, and then JD said when they all get together in the hotel lobby that first morning. It's a roar of noise of excitement about me. Meeting each other and really energy in that. Yeah. It's it's like they all turn into extroverts for one weekend. And it's like they've they found their people. That's that's what it is every year. What about you Judy? I loved being around and hearing how fun communicating about their gardening experience. And how each logger was able to kind of create their own twist of their guarding. Experience are each one is to slightly different revenue you're hunting about how many hoes you have or which was hysterical. And the funny ways that people are able to commute talk about gardening and just have fun with it. Or no is your big in cooking in talking about gardening. As far as how it's gonna end up on the table. Yeah. And just keeping it real. Yeah. If you only have sort of, you know, personal hopes about what you will be able to share with Gardner's outside of your gardening region about the joys and very specific characteristics of gardening at high altitude in Colorado what what will those? What would you know, what are you hoping to get across to your visitors penny Odeon, I we've both like laughed about. Come in Denver. They think oh, you know, they're gonna see shrub sage in that spout. It. This is a visiting gardening community a lot of gorgeous gardens here. We're we're ready hoping to break the mold that Colorado's Garden State. And I. I continue to hope to encourage people to get into a garden lowdown. Everyone is gotten a little crazy like need to slow down the reconnect. Pencil seat watch that little miracle happen where goes from this Little Rock into plants into something. You can take inside feed your family. That midday hoping to. Shake people at the Colorado. Very we do have gardens. Is not just love rock and khakis not just read rock. Yeah. Age we have some rocking. Good succulents in Colorado too. Is there anything else? Either one of you would like to add about the importance of of gardening of garden gatherings and of Gordon communication at this time. I think it's more important than ever. I worry that people are becoming afraid of each other and gardening such a wonderful place to meet. It's a such a natural place to meet you go into someone in when someone else invites you into their garden. It's such an intimate experience you're in their garden. Their garden is an expression of them how they put things together. What colors they use forms. I always feel it's really special when someone says camman over will go sit out on my back patio and have a grass, Elaine. How intimate is that? Yeah. I love that too that judy's right? That garden is definitely an expression of the person, and it is an act of generosity on that person to invite other people in in the the gardens the garden owners who do participate in the flying are extraordinarily generous. They're inviting, you know, up to one hundred bloggers in into their garden not all at once. You know, you can split up the buses don't wanna scare any potential garden owners out there for flings. But, but but it is it's as garden owner who's had her garden on tour. It's also very rewarding to bring people into the space that you've created and there's no feeling of criticism or or judgment that I've ever detected strictly that you're you're sharing the space that you are mostly in alone with with people who are really passionate about gardening in. That's. Really rewarding to be the person who gets to toward these these beautiful gardens of all kinds is. It's a wonderful experience. And and just in general, you may maybe like me, you may not have a neighbor who gardens or friends garden in your own city. But blogging gives you that. So you you suddenly belonged to a garden club that's strictly virtual and then meeting up in person just literally brings it to life and the negative experience every year with some of the same people in also some new people and see a different gardening culture than maybe you have. And it's a great learning experience. But most importantly, it's just a wonderful social experience. Yeah. Novel. These gardens are grand gardens some very small and. Just very creative. Yeah. But all very intimate. And I would so much rather see, and I can't think of another Gardner that would disagree with me. I would so much rather see a small not grand but beloved home garden, then I would see Versailles any day. That's true. Yeah. The personal is is is everything really really it is. So it is. Thank you very much for being guests on the program today. I it has been a pleasure to speak with you. Both. It was wonderful to be here. Thank you. Thank you so much, Jennifer. It was very nice of you to invite him. And I both on the program. Pam panic is a gardener and Gordon blogger from Austin, Texas, where in two thousand eight she founded the now annual Gordon bloggers fling her award winning blog is titled digging. Judy seaborn is co owner of botanical interest seeds in Denver, Colorado. She is also the writer of the blog in the garden with Judy four botanical interests towards the end of our conversation. Pam mentions that we orders tend to spend a fairly good portion of time alone in our gardens, and that we writers might spend another fairly good portion of time alone at our desks writing about gardens, and this is true. But I think Pam in all gardeners. I know would agree with the fact that we're never really alone in our gardens are we we're? Always companion by the spirits and lives of our place. The birds the trees, the soil, the weather of the moment of the day, but in seeking human community to we truly find the rest of our people finding and connecting. My people is a good portion of cultivating place for me, the guests the research, the listeners, those of you who reach out and comment or reach out and introduce yourselves in person finding our people the human and more than human is part of this impulse nurture that too for those of you who generously donate to cultivating place. There's a little something extra coming your way this month as a way to help us all get through that last stretch towards and celebration of the vernal equinox. This is a bonus audio offering of thing. Thanks to our generous donors from all of us here at cultivating place for details on how you can be included. And so you don't miss out make sure to listen to this week's podcast breaks or read this week show notes at cultivating place, or if you're a subscriber to view from here newsletter. You can find out there to you'll find all the details you need to get just a little more of your cultivating place in your month. Because when you find your people, you don't wanna let them go. You wanna nurture and cultivate, them to join us again next week as the conversations continue we'll be moving out of the series, how gardeners gather grow and learn just in time for spring break when we'll be joined by two women who have a lot to share about the ways and means to get more of our kids outside more often and get them dirty. We'll be joined by Amanda Thompson of kiss my Aster with her new book backyard adventure and by Nancy strenously up author of nature play at home. After all play is universal learning tool. We all understand. There are so many ways people engage in and grew from the cultivation of their places cultivating places listener supported co production of north state public radio for more information and many photos from the garden bloggers fling past and present see this week's show notes under the podcast tab echo voting place dot com. A big thanks to everyone who makes this program possible listeners and donors we couldn't do it without you and together we make a difference. Our producer is terrible Hanan our engineer. Skyscraper field. Original theme music is by mom muse, accompanied by Joe craven, and Sam Bevan cultivating places distributed nationally by p r x public radio exchange until next week. Enjoy the cultivation of your place. I'm Jennifer jewel.
Morning Joe 11/26/19
"Good morning welcome to morning. Joe Tuesday November. The twenty. Six with us we've got MSNBC CONTRIBUTOR. Mike Barnicle Professor Princeton University. Eddie cloud junior president of the Council on Foreign Relations and author of the book a world in disarray Richard Haass and MSNBC legal analyst. Danny Cevallos Joe and Mika have the morning off talk. We talk just very briefly about Jackson last night as we've got a lot of important news to Lamar Jackson best player in the NFL. Lamar Jackson the best player in the NFL. The Ravens Vince. Probably the best team in the NFL. But Lamar Jackson far and away. The single most exciting player option professional football just incredible watching him last smoked smoked the rams in La last night. He went off to Jackson five. They were calling. Ah Five touchdown passes. And he's he's a sports changer he will. He will become now the new yardstick for professional quarterback. He's very as a steelers fan. Eddie's very excited with the planner we'll show some of them are later in the show but we got to begin with the court ruling against the argument. The president is using to stonewall the impeachment investigation a federal court judge has rejected the White House claim of absolute absolute immunity ruling. That former White House counsel Don mcgann must testify in the impeachment inquiry the House Judiciary Committee subpoenaed mcgann earlier this year for testimony testimony on possible obstruction of justice in the Mueller investigation. When the White House blocked his appearance the committee sued and yesterday a federal judge sided with Congress in writing in her opinion this quote stated simply the primary takeaway from the past two hundred fifty years of American history is that presidents are not not kings? This means that they do not have subjects bound by loyalty or blood whose destiny they are entitled to control that ruling by Judge Jackson in a Federal Court Doc official tells NBC News. The Justice Department will seek a stay to stop the ruling from taking effect immediately. The White House in a statement said this decision contradicts as long standing legal precedent established by administrations of both political parties. We will appeal and are confident that the important constitutional principle advanced by the administration nation will be vindicated while the ruling on the compels. mcgann's testimony that trump administration also has used the now rejected absolute immunity declaim to defy congressional subpoenas for Vice President Pence Secretary of state. Mike Pompeo and acting chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney former national security security advisor John Bolton has not been subpoenaed but people familiar with his views are now telling the Washington Post he would testify if cleared by a federal court. Don't Danny let me start with you just on the nuts and bolts of this. What it means exactly what Judge Jackson effectively said is down again? has to go testify before the House. Judiciary Committee forget the immunity claim. But once he's in the chair he can still claim executive privilege. I have that right. That's right on a case by case or even question by question Ashton basis what this ruling holds and it is a significant opinion. But it's not a surprise because the same court decided essentially the exact same issue issue back in two thousand and seven that case involving Harriet Myers at the time did not make it all the way to the end of appeals. It was resolved otherwise. But there's nothing. Don't think about this opinion. That is really that shocking. Because everything that the court holds or that compels the testimony or shoots down the absolute privilege. The village argument or immunity rather is based on case law that Administration's position is instead based on their own internal away. Elsie legal opinions. which which have no binding legal precedent at all in a sense? The winner in this case was never going to be in doubt and if it goes up on appeal the result will probably probably be the same the net takeaway is that there is no absolute immunity for executive officials high ranking executive AIDS. Instead they have to show up they they have to comply then they may have individualized executive privilege claims. But you can't ignore a congressional subpoena that's the big takeaway today. Let's also bring into the conversation precision Mike White House correspondent for PBS News Hour Michelle Cinder and NBC. News correspondent covering national security and Intelligence Kevin Delaney and Mike. So we should. I went out. This we're talking about Don mcgann here because we've had so many names come through. In the last several months Don mcgann was the former White House counsel. Who left last fall? We're talking here about the Mueller investigation. which in this case is separate from the Ukrainian investigation but there may be some implications for the Ukrainian investigation if it sets a precedent precedent that allows someone like John Bolton to testify? You know clearly. But in this of subpoenas Danny that have been issued. Many people who have been issued subpoena have just totally ignored the subpoena. How does that happen if I get a subpoena? If he gets a subpoena we have to respond to it that they're playing a game of chicken because Congress has this broad power to subpoena. But what we're finding out. The last couple of years is that they don't really have a very good enforcement mechanism so that a ain't someone who receives a congressional subpoena if they have the Chutzpah they have the courage can't oppose it and if they drag it out long enough. The amazing thing is once you get a new congress in that subpoena kind of disappears into the ether and that's exactly what the administration and others associated with it are doing. They're saying well if I if I run out the clock as long as I can then the need for the subpoena may disappear in fact. That's what happened with the Harriet Myers case back in two thousand seven. It never made it all the way through to appeals. It was resolved in another way. And then you had this free standing court opinion for over a decade that really left us wondering where exactly the law is on this issue. So in the Muller Report Killeen and we know that Don mcgann testified for about thirty hours in front of the special counsel's office. We know that he testified. Hi that President Trump asked him to fire Robert Muller at one point in two thousand seventeen. How significant is this ruling to that case well look look? I don't actually think that this ruling is going to affect. How Congress deals with airing that matter before the public because it's going to be appealed? It's going to drag. Go Out and look. They're gonNA take a boat here before Thanksgiving on the Ukraine matter. They're moving ahead so congressman Schiff keeps using this term roker dope. He says I'm not going to be dragged into a long on court fight hoping that we get the testimony of these people nonetheless because of what Danny said. This is a hugely important decision that will that will last potentially long after the trump administration station. It's gone because four. Since Nineteen seventy-one the executive branch has claimed this right of testimonial immunity saying that Congress has no right to a call close presidential aides to testify and what this judge said was that doesn't exist. That is not a thing and so So you know ah you said mcgann will of course even once this is appeal then goes all the way through and assuming that this ruling holds mcgann will then claim executive privilege on these these because because he was advising the president about how to respond and how to deal with the Muller investigation in his capacity as White House counsel and executive privilege privilege arguably does protect some sensitive conversations with president so we may never see mcgann's testimony but nonetheless. This is an incredibly important ruling because it especially in light the recent speech that the attorney general made arguing essentially for unchecked presidential power and that these these many investigations by Congress amount to harassment. Now that's a sort of a distorted view of of an argument that the executive branch has been making for a long time. And what this judge said is absolutely not congressional. Investigations are enshrined trying in the constitution. And they have a right to call aids to come and comply with subpoenas. Yeah that's what do what is the separation of powers even is what just Jackson made yesterday in court. Eddie Yeah I just wanted to underline what can just said because oftentimes we confused two things right. There's the bad actor that Donald Trump and then there are the arguments surrounding rounding Donald Trump around unitary executive about imperial presidency. And it seems to me that there are some folks like bill bar who's actually defending this rather radical radical understanding of the executive of executive power. And then there folks who are defending trump and then there's the way those two things converge. What we saw? Yesterday is a kind of a clear distinction. The Jesse Jackson invoked federalist fifty one right which was all about the separation of powers so we have in some ways a clear enunciation association that this idea of unlimited executive power is just simply unconstitutional has no merit so that argument now is in full view you as opposed to just simply being something driving behind the scenes the way in which people have been defending. DONALD TRUMP is the headline from judge yesterday again. Richard was president are not kings things. That's the case he was making yesterday really was classic Federalist Paper. This this is a public civics classroom. I had a question for the lawyer types around the table so just say people ultimately family testified who decide whether executive privilege is claimed. If John Bolton testifies can he does he asserted can the White House instruct him to to assert executive privilege. Does he of the discretionary right to say. Actually I choose to answer this question. How does that play out? And they can't instruct him and then it would probably go again immediately to to the courts and that creates a real problem now. Obviously a an individual can say I'm not going to comply with that order. That again would go to the courts at every turn and this is why these legal issues have been left so unresolved for so long. Is that in many cases. Congress says well. What's the point in the battle? It's tried to negotiate something something else so that we get something today as opposed to maybe something in the future and just one of the things to build on. What Eddie said is that it's so interesting that the administration argued? It means that we as the executive are untouchable and the court said No. No you've got exactly wrong. It's the opposite. Separation of powers means that the different different branches act as a check on each other and it is exactly our job as judiciary to check you the executive branch. Yeah you meet as I put it out. Don mcgann testified to Robert Muller that President Trump asked him to go fire. Robert Mueller fire the special counsel and he refused to do so. President trump has denied that interview since then. Of course I What is the White House reaction to this? Do they show any concern about this or they think this is just another another step along this path of impeachment. The Democrats are trying to pursue. Do the White House is obviously concerned about this Don mcgann at someone who was at the center of the White House and understood what was going on with. The president understood some of that order that he was giving. But I think what's even more interesting or more concerning them. John McKenzie Testimonies and Democrats really do want to focus narrowly on this Ukraine issue is what that all mean for the people that have been named all the witnesses that came forward and these impeachment inquiry hearings. There were so many names listed there. Were Secretary Pompeo Vice President Pence Acting Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney Energy Secretary Rick Perry all of these people that are not testifying as their people under them like Alexander Vitamin Lieutenant. Colonel Alpin Man. He's someone WHO's working at the White House and decided to show up but there are these higher officials who are very close to president trump. Who understand what the president's thinking don't WanNa come to Congress so I think the White House has most because I think the white not those people might then somehow be compelled to be part of this impeachment inquiry so can let's talk about potential implications for the Ukraine conversation? This again it we're talking about testimony for Don mcgann before the House Judiciary Committee but what about for the House Intel Committee and a witness like take John Bolton someone who's been sort of flirting with the idea of speaking publicly in one form and other whether that's a book or testimony in the impeachment inquiry remains to be seen. This set some kind of a precedent in that conversation. Well it certainly does to. You just pointed absolutely does it. The judge even mentioned that national don't security does not create testimony testimonial immunity either However it would allow Bolton to claim executive privilege but you can argue that a lot of what's covered in this Ukraine matter does not really implicate? US National Security. You know. Democrats say it's a criminal scheme And in the famous Nixon the Supreme Court case you know he had. Nixon had to give up the tapes because the judge ruled that executive privilege doesn't trump a valid criminal investigation and so that has got to be a concern for the White House. Here John Bolton Mick Mulvaney Mike Pompeo all these people who have resisted congressional efforts to get them to talk about Ukraine. Now that said there's is a long road of litigation here and Democrats are on a much different timetable so realistically will the courts. Decide this on the timetable. The Democrats need to get an impeachment impeachment. Vote and to get this information before the public. That seems unlikely but it may affect future generations. This could be a really important precedent. That is being now set by this ruling. So Danny is pinpoints illegal. time-line appeals stays all the rest of it and then the political time mind Adam Schiff signal again. Yesterday was members. We want to get this moving when it gets something. I'm done. Get a vote sometime before Christmas so just as a practical matter. How long could this play out this mcgann question? Only we have a stay right now. How long did this go? Oh on we're only at the district court which is the lowest trial court and from there. They can appeal rights the DC circuit and from there the Supreme Court there at the very beginning of this road so it could take a very long time now of course in important issues like this may expedite matters that appeal but they still need to brief the issues and the court. Look at this. We just had Over one hundred page opinion just issued by the District Court and these kinds of things take time so that's why Congress knows that discretion may be me the better part of valour. Get what they can today immediately through negotiation and only press forward if the other side refuses and stonewalls completely. That's how we get existing case law and future precedent. In other words. This will not be tied up the mcgann issue before Christmas when when Adam Schiff wants to vote on impeachment. Oh it'll week tied up and not in the way you're saying it'll be tied up in court tire Danny Cevallos. Thanks so much. Always can d'alene and you'll be back with us next hour. We talked with the CO founders of fusion. GPS ES about their new book crime in progress inside the steele dossier and the fusion GPS investigation of Donald Trump. Seeing a bit Ken. Meanwhile defense secretary remark Esperer is weighing in on the firing of Navy Secretary Richard Spencer following a controversial war crimes case speaking to reporters yesterday secretary s for explain and he was quote flabbergasted to learn that Spencer had tried to make a secret deal with the White House concerning embattled navy. Seal Eddie Gallagher. Secretary s percents. He demanded Spencer's resignation. After learning. He had secretly approached the White House. About an arrangement to let gallagher retires a navy seal if the present state eight out of the case Esperer also said Monday president trump gave him a direct order to drop discipline in Reaction Against Gallagher in its first interview since being fired fired Spencer told CBS. He spoke with White House counsel Pat Sip Baloney about the proposed arrangement on November fifteen. He says SIP Aloni called back the same day due to decline the offer saying the president would be involved. Spencer acknowledged not telling expert about that proposal. I will take the bad on me for not letting him know. I did that but he was completely informed as to this because his chief of staff was briefed on it a spokesperson for the Pentagon disputed. Spencer statement telling The Washington Post. No one on staff was aware of Spencer's proposed deal in that same interview. Spencer also argued he was trying to head off an order from the president which he said he could not in good conscience obey. What do I stand for? A secretary of the navy go to order and discipline to the United States Navy. That's prime tenant. This fact erodes that the what's wrong with the following a lawful order from the commander in chief. Nothing everyone should follow a lawful order. That's that's good order and discipline. I could not in my conscience do through this speaking to reporters yesterday. President trump defended his involvement in the war crimes. Case I have to protect my warfighters. I've has been gotten a lot of people have a lot of war. Fighters People in the military of thanked us very much with Eddie Gallagher. You know that story very well. They wanted to take his pin away and and I said No. You're not going to take it away. He was a great fighter. Here's the ultimate fighters tough-guy these not we fearful these people and we're gonNA protect our warfighters. I don't think he really understands. The full definition of a warfighter warfighter is a profession of arms in a profession of arms has standards that they have to be held to and they hold themselves to Richard. I'll read some of the reactions. Senator Jack Reed. The top Democrat on armed services. Services of military veteran himself. Said this is an outrageous irresponsible interference by president trump in the military justice system. He went on and explained why he believes that Just your reaction to how this all played out. There's no winners here. Spencer's position was ridiculous. Who's going to basically argue for a sham or shipped almost show trial kind of thing with the outcome guaranteed? So that wasn't an answer and I understand why he got can but the president's position is unsupportable and the the sad thing is it's not a one off the military is not the only institution he's going after he's going after the foreign service we saw the last week she's going after the intelligence intelligence this community. He's gone after the Federal Reserve. He's gone after you know National Security Council what is basically doing is is institution after institution. Russian he is going against the norms the culture the idea of professionalism the idea of independence so this we thought the military was somehow off limits. It's it's sad not just because the military is critically important attorney is arguably the most successful institution in American society. I can't think when we look at where the military was say at Vietnam where it is half a century later it is a model for talent development for for diversity for professionalism for excellence. We have been extraordinarily well served in this country by our military and this is a corrosive act. This is a way of removing the military's ability to self regulate relate to self police. So this is this is a dangerous dangerous precedent. IMME- Richard just spoke to norms broken standards. Lowered this is throughout many agencies in this administration in Jack Reed. Senator Reid's comment that will you just referred to. I'd like you to to speak to the level of concern that you hear. Among our elected officials who realize that non broken standards lowered is nearly universal universal now cross government. Well there are two parts if you talked to Democrats they really are worried. That what president trump presents is really a question about about how our democracy functions in general whether or not the institution that people have held up. I'm talking about the DOJ the Department of Justice the second the the Department of State whether or not those institutions will continue to function in a way that serves national security and the nation's best interest or whether or not a president can come in and put an attorney general. That's been you personally loyal to him. As Democrats have argued attorney. General bar is to president trump. Whether or not the president with the with the agenda that president trump has whether whether or not he can test those norms break those norms and get away with it Republicans though when I talk to them off the record they also people who have been a lot of people who back the idea of rule of law who shied away from the idea of abusing power but who find themselves having the backup having defend someone that they think is really bending the rules if at best and if that is really putting them in a situation where they're having to defend what they think is really unethical behavior if not impeachable so I think the Republicans begins. I've talked to they. Don't move away from the president saying that they're going to be voting to impeach him or anything like that. I think he will continue to have solid Republican support but there are Republicans who are definitely worried that this president and breaking these norms and in changing the way that America functions overall might mean something bad for the future of this country. So Eddie Secretary Spencer was asking that. CBS interview last night. What message this sends and he says well the message it sends is that you can get away with anything? In president. Trump will swoop in and clear name said it's a bad message to send. We also got reporting last night from the daily beast that President Trump would like Eddie Gallagher to campaign for him in twenty twenty campaign within him in twenty twenty beyond the stage at the convention in Twenty Twenty President Trump effectively. Now using the men he cleared at something like a political prop right so so it qualifies what Secretary Spencer saying that. It's not anyone can get away with anything but if you support Donald trump you may be able to get away with something right and so what we see is that the president actually believes that he can do anything he wants no matter what institutional norms say or what they might be. He believes that his power is unlimited and unchecked. And so for those of us who aren't in the military. I was talking to Mike about this earlier. Just imagine this as the president swooping in just a particular judicial case just overturning. What the judge says right? This is what happened. So it disrupts the way which military justice functions uh-huh and here in the context someone who was convicted of war crime of a war-crimes someone who in some ways undermined the values of the Navy Seals and Donald Trump said. It doesn't matter it doesn't matter you know to your point into what Richard said about the American military especially over the course of the last twenty thirty years. The retraining the American military American military's image in the eyes of Americans around the world on October twelfth. Donald Trump tweeted this. This we train our boys to be killing machines then prosecute them when they kill. That is an exhibit of a fundamental total misunderstanding. Of what we do as a country to train our military. We do not train them to be killing machines jeans we train them principally to be national security apparatus but to be weapons representing the United States of America when they are overseas. Good order discipline as Spencer said a fundamental misunderstanding of the role of the military. No absolutely and and this is a perfect example of how we reduce our standing in the world in some ways also we reduce I think potentially the safety of American troops around there. They're all sorts sorts of settings and then some cases peacekeepers in some cases they're simply providing stability in some cases they are warfighters but even when they're warfighters they act with real discipline and unit cohesion under laws under rules understand under chain of command and again. That's what's so corrosive of what the president did because he he undermines that he undermines disciplined underlines the chain of command the relationship between the hierarchical organization. And it's exactly exactly what he's he he's working at so for the short term benefit he gets politically actually think it has again. The word that keeps coming to mind is corrosive institutions depend upon upon rules and norms and values and this works against it. All right still ahead on Morning Joe. We are exactly eleven weeks away this morning from New Hampshire Democratic primary. Mary new polling there shows a tight four way race we will dig into the numbers plus former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg makes his first presidential campaign stop and explains why he's running for the White House but I bill Cairns has a look at the forecast. Hey Bill Willie flight aware already reporting over seven hundred flight cancellations today over three thousand and delays. We have two huge storms to deal with over the next three days. And we're getting a little bit of everything out of these dorms. I was trying to think of the weather. We don't have hurricanes and he weighs everything else is on the table. So let's get into it. We're first of all starting with twenty three million people. In our winter storm warnings. We've had about seven inches of snow in Denver Fort Collins Colorado fourteen inches of snow. So it's a snow Oday in Colorado and that is going to spread through areas of the planes and then tonight and into tomorrow the West gets hit hard especially in the mountainous areas of California Oregon. It also Arizona and Nevada everywhere pretty much. So here's the snowfall map and you get to see how big this footprint is of snow out there. Another six inches is possible. Later on tonight. In areas like Minneapolis hapless the warm side of this storm system's going to produce severe weather. Today we have a chance of an isolated tornado or two. And if you're flying out of Saint Louis Memphis little rock when this line of storms. Come through you know. We're going to have to probably shut things down and get a brief stop then resume so delays are possible throughout this region of Arkansas mentioned Memphis there indefinitely in Saint. Louis let me the timing. Obviously with all the heavy snow this morning in Denver we're going to have significant airport delays there later today. The snow begins in Minneapolis Apple so early. Flights are fine and that line of storms goes through. We could get delay Saint Louis Chicago Dallas and even possibly a little bit there in Houston. The good news is that the roads pretty much south of Chicago. We're just going to be really shouldn't be that bad eighties. Treacherous wrote through Nebraska today with that heavy snow and as far as the northeast goes on Wednesday. The storm weakens. It's warm. There'll be a period of rain going through but there will be some strong winds so I don't think the rains in a cost too many delays but as far as the airports go we could see winds gusting to fifty to sixty miles per hour in Chicago and also Detroit. And so that's GONNA call a significant problems. Delays maybe even cancellations through the Great Lakes Breezy conditions in areas of the northeast at won't be as bad as say Chicago as it is in New York but we'll still have some issues out of it and of course the roads minor problems with that and with the windy conditions. A lot of people have been wondering what's going to happen with the balloons. We can't have gusts forecast over thirty four in New York City right now. The gusts forecast is up to two forty got about forty eight hours for that the change so they may have to be grounded. Hey It's Chris as you know sometimes it's good to just take a step back back from the day to day onslaught of news and take a broader. Look at the issues. That's what I'm doing each week on my podcast. Why is this happening? Were exploring topics ranging from school segregation to climate change. Well the way that I think it is climate change will be to the twentieth century. What maternity west of the nineteenth century? It'll be the central subject of questions about economic justice. Everything that you care about in the world will be affected by climate and digging deep with guests uniquely qualified to analyze issues from mass incarceration to race relations as you know for the first time in our history at the national level whites are on the verge of losing their majority status in twenty years. And I think it's no coincidence that our politics are getting more tribal. Join me for wise's. Is this happening new episodes every Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcasts? So are saying that they see your decision to run now as an indication that you feel that the Kurt candidates in the field are weak and they can't get the job done. Is that accurate. Well let me phrase it it this way. I think that there is a greater risk of having donald trump reelected than there was before and in the end I looked in the mirror and said that this I cannot let this happen. Michael Bloomberg is making a bet about democracy in twenty twenty he. He doesn't need people. He only needs bags and bags of money. Nothing personal against the Bloomberg. I really don't but what does disturb me. Is the arrogance of the Billionaire Class Senators Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders reacting former New York City mayor. Michael Bloomberg's it's entrance into the presidential race. Bloomberg made his first campaign. Stop in Norfolk Virginia. Yesterday meanwhile for the first time in decades it is a four way. Race in New Hampshire the latest Suffolk University Boston Globe poll shows Senator Bernie Sanders at sixteen percent. Senator Elizabeth Warren at fourteen percent mayor Buddha judge at thirteen percent. He's up eight points since August and former vice president Joe Biden at twelve percent. He is down nine points since August. This is essentially a statistical tie with all four candidates sitting in the polls margin of error of more than four points the support for Senator Sanders appears to be much more solid than the other sixty sixty four percent of his supporters. Say their mind is firmly. Made Up Biden is the next closest in that regard with thirty seven percent that's bringing Pulitzer Prize winning when in Communist and associate editor of The Washington Post and MSNBC political analyst Eugene Robinson and political reporter for the Boston Globe. James pendle guys. Good Morning James. Let let me start with you because this is up in your neck of the woods what are you seeing that whole. That made the rest of us haven't seen yet. which is that peop? Buddha judge flying up at eight percent up eight points since the last poll and Vice President Biden down nine points. There was that whole last week up in New Hampshire that showed Mayor Buddha judge with a lead some said the sampling sampling of that poll. The group the highly educated white voters gave him an edge that perhaps inflated his numbers but here he is tied for the lead. Yeah there's a broader point and then a granular point. The broader point is that for so long many including myself thought that New Hampshire would eventually just comedown to this progressive grudge match between two neighboring senators of Elizabeth Warren and Bernie staters. Who Of course won the twentieth sixteen primary then Joe Biden comes in the race? Obviously floating above it immediately becomes a front runner. But now what we're seeing is the most complicated scenario in New Hampshire. I'm sure that we have all cycle. And AS Roma's you quoted. We've never had a this. Mini candidates clustered at the very top. This close to the New Hampshire primary primary in decades so well a lot of people looking at Iowa. That's clearly where a lot of the candidates thought this is gonNA be your make or break contest for them. And and they thought New Hampshire will just be this Warren and Bernie contests. I think this poll in particular is going to change a little bit enforce other campaigns. And say wait a minute. What's actually happening here in New Hampshire and remember the top number? They're sixteen percent. Anything can happen in terms of a candidate who's down at two or four injury Yang and the number of undecideds or twenty one percent and fifty three percent haven't even decided on a final candidate yet so the smaller muller point too. You can get your questions. Smart Point would be one thing to look in. This pool are older voters fascinating for one poor last pool to this poll odor. Voters have been fleeing Joe Biden. That's why he dropped to fourth place. You dropped nine points. Among older voters in meanwhile Buddha the judge is the one who's gaining. He gained seven points among those older voters. So right. Now you're the subgroup. That's moving the most right now. Granted Mike isn't that interesting mayor. Buddha judge leads the field with twenty two percent support voters fifty six to sixty five years old so the young mayor from South Bend. Indiana is the most popular with older voters in New Hampshire. Yeah and clearly his jump up eight points since the last poll is set. Joe Biden's expense you know. There's an old aphorism in politics and the began with you gene McCarthy Carthy campaign in one thousand nine hundred. Sixty eight in New Hampshire. That old people like young people. I mean they just do. They're they're drawn to younger sweaty. You like Willie. That's exactly right again if I'm young. He's an old show middle aged man. Gene Robinson. What are you what are you see in these numbers right here? Other other than the fact that this this race is completely up for grabs. As by the way is the case in Iowa to you bet a cluster of candidates at the polls there. What do you see in these New Hampshire numbers? I see what you saw. I see race that that is completely up for grabs. I see a primary contest through the first at least two contests and maybe the first three if you count that's totally fluid That could go so anyway. And and and then you get to South Carolina and maybe Joe Biden still has a firewall there and because of his support with African American voters. And we'll so at that point we'll see But this is this year we could be in a in a few months after these. This first I set of primaries we could be looking toward Super Tuesday And and hoping that we get some questions answered this could look look look like a very messy undecided race For some time through the primary season I think because voters clearly haven't made made up their minds that there's one of these candidates or or even two of these candidates that they want to to finally duke it out to run against Donald Trump. It's the the number of undecideds. It's just striking candy. Our good friend Steve. Kornacki reminds us. This came out yesterday of the poll. The Same Poll Boston Austin Globe December eleventh. Two thousand. Three Howard Dean forty two percent right. John Kerry nineteen percent Wesley Clark thirteen percent so obviously a long way to go and these along at long way to go. It's just a picture of of particular moment but look I think what's interesting particularly with the Buddha jazz numbers in the Biden numbers. Is that what we what kind of conversation we were having around the progressive side of the Democratic Party that those votes would be split between Warren and Sanders. We're now seeing that happened among the centrist right and that is you have Buddha judge. You have a Biden and now you have Bloomberg so it's really interesting the way in which this ideological divide within the party how it is taking how has taken shape up to now and what it will look like moving forward as voters have choices within those particular camps to make. So we're in for a long ride. It seems to me already. It's a factor but it's is gonNA become a larger factor after the holidays or the beginning of the new year which among these candidates who could be donald trump. That's going to be the fact. And it's essentially you know. One has higher than sixteen percent the two progressives together or what thirty percent to centrists together are close to that twenty five or so percent this is truly distributed and it reflects the the larger dynamic of the Democratic race and we began this block with a thing about Bloomberg this is the scenario that he obviously benefit trump that nobody emerges the first four primaries are awash in then you start moving towards Super Tuesday and it's interesting watching his ads Bloomberg's running less against everybody else else. Much more against trump he is the one who's framing the issue so far more than anyone else. I think is a referendum on the incumbent on his fitness to serve so actually think I know no his numbers are low and he's not in these polls but actually this reinforces the rationale for his president. Sorry we're GonNa talk more about Mayor Bloomberg his candidacy and his rationale after we sneak in a quick quick break. The may depress Chuck Todd Cast. It's an insider's take on politics twenty twenty election and more candid conversations conversations with some of my favorite reporters about things. We usually discuss off camera. Listen for free. Wherever you get your podcast? We cannot afford four more years of president. Trump's reckless and unethical actions. He is an existential threat to our country to our values can our national security and every day it seems to bring another example of just just how unfit he is to serve as our president and commander in chief and this week was no exception. Mayor Michael Bloomberg kicking off his campaign in Norfolk Virginia. Yesterday Gene Robinson let's play a little devil's advocacy here. There's a lot of talk about a man who's at one percent in the polls right now a man who obviously can pour unlimited committed funds into this race to interact it but man also who's sitting out the beginning of this campaign who's going to be sitting waiting on Super Tuesday. Does he really play a part in this this campaign the way a lot of people are speculating will well. The answer is not yet certainly because as you said. He's not on the charts at at the moment however if the scenario we were just talking about turns out to be right if Democratic voters really aren't sure if they really don't know if we if we get a completely mixed result of from those first four primaries then okay you can imagine a huge sort of blanketing media campaign by Michael Bloomberg in the in the Super Tuesday states including California in Texas and you can imagine him playing a role in the campaign. I'm a bit skeptical as to whether the Democratic primary primary electorate as we know it thus far this year is is going to warmly embrace Michael Bloomberg. He'll have a lot of questions to answer one of them. I'm will be if you're elected. Will you divest your self of these vast assets that we don't have some of the conflict a AH questions and issues that we have with the billionaire currently occupying the alleged billionaire currently occupying the White House. So we don't have a lot of explaining to do but it's not inconceivable this year that Yes yes he may have an impact and we'll just we'll just have to see this is going to be one wild ride. No question about that. We know the president's always thinking about the race. It's reason he had rudy Giuliani running around Ukraine. Trying to get dirt on Joe Biden. Because he's thinking about his next race. What is the White House and specifically the president thinking right now? Is it watches. This is field be beat each other up and watches the polls move through different states. Another billionaire enter the rates and Michael Bloomberg. Where do they see this democratic field and who they fear most well the president has said that he still has his eyes on Bernie Sanders Elizabeth Warren and Joe Biden as the top contenders? But when you add Michael Bloomberg you really have to understand that I think there are a lot of people who see Michael Bloomberg and this is from a Democrat. Larry talking to just yesterday as the real version of what president trump claims to be. None other get is from Democrat but essentially you have someone who's a New York billionaire who made his money who has given away a lot of money who has been philanthropic and who is also so once said at the Democratic convention that he sees a fraud when he when he knows what a fraud as when he sees one and he was talking about Donald Trump at that moment and essentially if someone Michael Bloomberg who could really get under the president's skin because he could talk about the president's background in New York he could talk about his real estate ventures in the fact that he was known for not paying people he could talk about the fact that the president might not really be a billionaire because he has release his tax returns so Michael Bloomberg even if he's not seen as a direct threat to president trump he someone who president president trump will home in on because he's from New York and he knows Michael Bloomberg for a long time. That said I think the president is still most concerned with the Democrats who are leading in the polls. I think Buddha judge is someone that I haven't heard that much about when it comes to campaign officials close to president trump but he rises in the polls. That might be someone that the president starts to hold on as well so James you spend we've said Ad Nauseam it's early it's early. It's early a lot of things can change pointed to the past polls that showed a race that didn't end up with Howard Dean doing the things that the poll suggests that that he was going to do what changes the dynamic in this race over these next eleven weeks. How does it shake out when you have four people essentially tied in New Hampshire Hamshaw? What are the voters up there looking at that will separate somebody from that pack? You know. It's amazing Michael. Bloomberg is worth fifty three billion dollars and he doesn't control his own destiny at least not in this president or as he needs something very messy to happen particularly in these first four early estates into directly. Answer your question. I'm really glad Kornacki brought up two thousand three because you know what happened in two thousand three two thousand four John Kerry wins Iowa. He Wins Iowa and he comes back and then he wins New Hampshire look. I don't know how likely that scenario is going to be here even very very messy race with a lot of different dynamics going on if Elizabeth Warren or Bernie Sanders Win Iowa. Maybe even people to Judge Win Iowa they he may well win New Hampshire as well and now we're off to the races and no one has ever lost the nomination. Who won those first two states and then Mike Bloomberg who by by the time? He's probably I don't even know how many hundreds of millions of dollars so I do think that Iowa is going to be paying a very critical role in determining whether or not we have a one or two person even campaign one person who the winner is in Iowa and people winner very similar to two thousand and four and then of course. What New Hampshire does if it's very very messy Z.? Obviously very good for Bloomberg. If it's not and we have a pretty clear dynamic there's some questions about what Bloomberg's play is really here for now. Four way tie up in the state of New Hampshire answer the Boston gloves James pendle. Thanks so much good to see you come a morning joe listeners. Steve Kornacki here. I WanNa tell you about a new. NBC News podcast. I'm hosting called article two inside impeachment. It's exclusively dedicated to bringing you the latest developments on the impeachment inquiry into president. Donald Trump every Monday Wednesday and Friday. I'm going to be talking to. NBC News reporters who are closest to the story to break down. What's new what matters? And what it means for the twenty twenty election and our country since since you love morning Joe. I thought you'd enjoy search now for article two inside impeachment. Wherever you're listening to this podcast and subscribe for free? Thanks for listening.
Heartland Newsfeed Radio Network: Beyond The Beltway with Bruce DuMont (July 28, 2019)
"Why goggle versus beyond the beltway now of Nanto Bowling League tapering Innuendo all up by a Tamil political insiders powerbrokers public professor and most importantly played the American from tonight featuring commentary by Republican Republican Mike Miller from the Paul University Beautif Sherwin them pro trump Republican from Lila University and Chris Perone a trump critic and author public relations executive are pulling their night something them while at the Museum of broadcasting got up in the fallen Angel Harvey Radio Studio or our phone lines are open at one eight hundred seventy three eighty twenty nine? That's one eight hundred seventy three eighty nine email me domino gets Bruce Dumont two thousand nineteen at gmail.com we want to we had common. It's at Zumo at K._O._M._O.. And of course you can join us on the World Wide Web beyond the Beltway Dot Com and that is not only tonight show but if you're missing show in the past you can find it there and of course we're live on facebook as well as we are live on youtube so that's how you can find this. We prepared this show for thirty nine years and in thirty nine years I think only once or twice has a guest not showing up and at this moment. I don't know whether it's his fault or my fault. I'll take full blame board but again we do not have our guest this evening who was going to represent <hes> the democratic physicians and the American Civil Liberties Union Peter Hannah who you have seen on this program in the past it may very well be that he'll show up in the middle of the show but I don't think that's the case because I believe an error has been made and again the air might have been mined and certainly I will take full credit for. I guess you take credit for a blame so what we have this evening as we have a we have a variety of Republicans we have Republicans that are very pro-trump. We have one who's the very critical and we have one who sort of likes donald trump now but didn't like him very much when he was running for president and he's acknowledged on this show that he didn't vote for him so that I think represents a lot of people in this country so that it isn't necessarily an even divide at the moment binary choice between a Republican Democrat so we're GonNa have our discussion this evening. Some maybe maybe a little more to the right than you would like it to be but I'll try to be a devil's advocate on some of these points in a one of the things that was going to be the major topic of discussion it turned out to be maybe not as major as it turned out and that is the report for uh-huh from Robert Muller and I want to go to judy because you are an attorney you watch the hearings. You've certainly followed this case for ad infinitum since it's been going on what was your what was the high highpoint and a low point for his testimony in your view <hes> well. I think that the the low point probably the little blind in the high point I think really revolves around the same issue and that was the issue of whether or not the failure to <hes> bring a charge against the president in connection with obstruction of justice had to do with the office of Legal Counsel Opinion Dan you can't indict a sitting president <hes> Ted Lieu <hes> sort of got out of him <hes> not completely clear statement that well yeah maybe that was on his mind in that wasn't why he charged them and then he went to lunch and he came back and he started off the afternoon by saying well. That's not really what I said and that's not the right way to say it. I did not make a decision on obstruction yeah and and I think that was really <hes> I point because the Democrats are trying to well. They're trying very hard to ignore the fact that the report says there is no conspiracy. They're trying very very hard to avoid the fact that as far as the legal term is concerned. There's no such thing as collusion unless you're talking about antitrust which we're not talking about so that that issue they can't deal with that right and they can't deal with the fact that now they have no obstruction either so they have to try and make it up to the South Christopher onus you are. You're not you're critic of the president. You're also professional public relations executive <hes> is is this story story to the to the general public which may not even have what any of the hearings is. Is this case clear to them or not. I think I think clear who the good guys and the bad guys Dr based on <hes> on the way with us and the Democrats have I've used the publicity vehicles of the last three years to Shear anti-climax of the release the original release of the Miller report in April was was clear there was no slam dunk and then you're going to go and drag a seventy four year old retiree out of retirement nations that asked him to conduct an investigation collusion you drag them up there kicking kicking and screaming and you expect him not to defend his report and this is an outcome. I felt like everyone saw was coming. That noise that everyone heard after the hearing was the prospects for impeachment dying nine and this is silly of the Democrats to do this clearly set themselves up for failure not dying in the house. I it may be die I in coffee table then cocktail Nancy but I'm sure not not want this. They're slow boating it. She said it herself in the press conference that they're going to pursue action the courts which could take months and there's a prevailing sentiment that if you don't do impeachment in September it's over over because why have a presidential election. Why are you giving people the vote to choose between two candidates? If you've got an impeachment process happening on a parallel track Meller your reaction I I wouldn't believe that respond to principles and I want people to be treated fairly I was. I guess the only word I could use outrage that they prep. They brought up this idea. Did you exonerate the president. They asked a prosecutor. Did you exonerate the breath. Since when does a prosecutor exonerate all they do is they present the evidence and for these people they know this and in spite of it they try to make it sound of the American people that somehow he's guilty because he wasn't exonerated and the second piece if a prosecutor acute has a bunch of evidence but it leads nowhere the idea that you would then present that evidence and smear people even though it's not enough for you to say these people are guilty and you should you should have a hearing regarding the obstruction I think if he had nothing that he could stand behind it was obstruction. He should've just there should not have been a part to a chapter tap so there should have been chapter one and his idea of exoneration is just preposterous with this table believes that an n. p.. An impeachment of the president is a good thing for him politically okay so I think he makes it wouldn't even further as you said I'm the person who did not vote for him right. I'm so afraid of the Democrats and I find trump to be an interesting man. I really like the court appointments and so forth. I think it could it could <hes> drive people like me and others who are kind of on the fence regarding this guy hi to vote for him because of the the basic unfairness of what is going on I I would agree. I would like to get the reaction from anybody <hes> listening to the program this evening <hes> based on what you saw last week with the military is there anything that you heard <hes> that that changed your opinion or just solidified your pin and we'll come back. We'll get more comments from our guests and we'll also talk about a variety of other things when we roll on from Chicago. Hello I'm ruth. You'll one now is the chance to use reliable energy to grow your money with the Dominion Energy Reliability Investment our new investment product offers competitive returns no maintenance fees and flexible online access to your money make the reliable investment in reliable energy the Dominion Energy Reliability Investment to find out more go online to reliability investment dot com. That's reliability investment dot com right now. The Home Depot has lower prices on everything for every flooring project including up to thirty five percent off tile save on the latest trends from modern mosaics to warm would look tile even the look of natural stone but tyler is just the beginning any their savings on all flooring everything you need to complete your flooring project. Today is the day for doing with up to thirty five percent off tile and lower prices on all flooring. The Home Depot more saving more doing U._S.. Only valid through August Fourth Yeah Bruce Dumont back in Chicago. I study with us one eight hundred seven two three eighty to eighty nine is the phone number. Many Democrats are arguing that there's enough out there that the there should be an inquiry and and many in the house believe that there should be impeachment proceedings against the president and some of the more practical members including I think the speaker is basically saying. Do we really want to do this because it may tick off the public and they're going to take it out on us and we don't think the Republicans are going in the Senate are GonNa vote to convict him anyway. So they're making a political calculation. There's some people who are running for president that say forget the political calculation the Democrats have responsibility now to impeach to inquire and impeach and they may not make it but they but they may be setting a standard that if all the things that are out there now if that's not enough to call for an inquiry and impeachment what the Hell is in the future. What sort of smoking gun are we going to demand in the future and that really those that are looking at this purely as a political thing? I really not doing what the founding fathers PAT in mind. Is there truth to that question when you said that all the things that are out there now all right theories in anything out there Dow I've dealt with defending people who've been accused accused with obstruction of justice and what the president did does not rise to that standard number one number two you have to have a corrupt intent. They have no idea what what his intent was because there isn't enough there from even to begin to infer what was going on are you. Are you as a Republican. I WANNA ask everybody here. Are you comfortable with will the level of conversations that were going on with Russians or Russian operatives in every based on what's out there okay based on what's out there. Every campaign talks thanks to foreign governments. Every campaign does all right and the fact that there were I mean Paul Manafort had a Ukrainian connection. I'm sure he talked to Ukrainians. There are people who knew Russians this popadopoulos populace both was talking to various foreign ambassadors and also had connections with Israel. I mean they talk to other countries. That's part of what goes on during a campaign I mean Jeff sessions meets the Russian ambassador at a reception with hundreds of other people around and shakes his hand I mean do. We really think that there's a plot going on this apply. It bothers me okay. It bothers me like on a moral level. If anything anything <hes> just to see the president United States standing next to a guy who said to be the richest man in the world and one of the most ruthless Vladimir Putin like his lapdog yeah there are a lot of presidents or I'm sorry there are a lot of presidential campaigns that talk with foreign governments but <hes> if you just put that it by itself that might that might look innocuous but coupled with the every single state election database was hacked or there was. As an attempt for that to happen that's really really troublesome and I would like to see more moral leadership on the part of the president is especially because Republicans championed anti-communism Azzam in the supremacy of the West for so many years I assuming that the trump campaign knew that Russian nor hacking and it and it wasn't every state of whoever was one state. It's a problem you really thinks that Donald Donald trump be less submissive when ever the name Vladimir Putin plus Keno yeah it bothers me but again. I'M GONNA go back to keep invoking principles the obstruction idea the man is innocent. He did not conspire. If everybody kept saying things about me I would be angry when I knew that they were untrue and I would say to my friends behind closed close-door certain things which will sound bad if put into the public my fear is what we're trying to do is we're trying to make illegal thought crimes and that's so nineteen eighty-four it really at scares me so you do not support even any any inquiry based now two years okay we've had tumors and here's the other piece of the principal. If this is so important then why is not fusion G._P._S. and the Clinton admits the Clinton Tin folks who paid for this steele dossier. Why is this not front and center along with what happened Russian disinformation but the point is if the Russians tried to influence the election? It should have been on both parties not just one bruce you said earlier should there shouldn't a Democrats deaths at the end of the day the impeachment an impeachment proceeding is effectively political. It's what Congress says has is high crimes and misdemeanors that doesn't mean though that impeachment proceedings are devoid of a legal basis there was a strong legal basis for the Nixon almost impeachment demint sure an actual impeachment that was perjury and suborn of course right and those are real crimes and what you have here is not true deduction statute that is vague and an extremely subjective and not many legal scholars would say the basis for an impeachment proceeding so so that's the way for the merits it takes away the wynonna sales of the impeachment politically. If I were them paddock strategist I would be telling leadership you have to be trump at the poll exactly right beat him and for something right at just like you did in two thousand eighteen when these Republican leaning suburbs lipped K. and we'll give Nancy Pelosi speakership if the defeat him and and avoid any appearance of having legitimacy he proper those districts those districts that flipped which part of the the the centrist Democrats. They're the ones that I think Nancy Pelosi is. She wants to protect those and they have to vote upper down on an impeachment in a district it was carried by Donald Trump. Even though a Democrat game along it knocked off the member of cars right here fearful GONNA lose some of those seats and she'll lose her majority exactly right and I think that I think this will become worse even more hysterical more insane <hes> as we go along because it becomes clearer and clearer that it looks like he is going to be able to win. I mean we're we're. We're about to go through a second round of the debates. Do you see anybody on that stage. Who's going to beat him? I do not so far and I'd like to say one thing about the Putin Business Okay Putin at trump's behavior in public toward Putin. It's not necessarily what's going on in private nor we don't know what attached all gone is his demeanor we for any president. I don't know exactly right. We want what we want. Let's remember a little history as well. I'm sorry go ahead. You're able to get along with the Russians. There are some issues in this world on which we need to get along with them and if the President says the Nice thing about what Putin in the hopes of making him a little bit more malleable the negotiating table. I don't have a major problem with it doesn't mean he loves it. Historically as well presidents have stood or sat or talk to monsters in the past Joseph Stalin Iota and then when we finally opened up China Richard Nixon talks to who the greatest monster maybe in the history of of the past four centuries and that was Mao Zedong and you are next to a person who's policies killed nine hundred eighty million of his own people sometimes took to advance the United States. You have to stand next monster in all the instances you just mentioned all those nations feared the United States and respected the United States well all the Economy Vladimir Putin issues tickled pink that he could that he has this much doubt in your mind ain't that he is if he was successful last time the relationship between the alleged relationship between the Russians and the trump reelection effort. Is it still going to be the president. Is it going to be front and center. I'm sure the trump people are going to say no. I don't want your Albany more. They didn't get I mean here's that help. They can't help that's all no no. They received some help in their in their miscommunication in the propaganda campaign they did get some help they took they took anti hillary items and they spread them throughout the Internet delegates. Yeah there were Anti Hillary and trump items that they also spread through are there have been many instances where they said that. The Russians were also putting out anti trump stuff at the same time and the theory about this whole. Let me finish this theory about this whole business with with the Anti Hillary stuff. They never thought she was GONNA lose. There is some sleep in the whole world thought she was going. ooh sorry sorry what they wanted to do. Let me finish what they wanted it to was have a president of the United States who would be elected who would have all this awful baggage going into office and they were going to use. I use it so they ended up was awful baggage but not quite the way they want it to and we have been really complicit in helping them. We've gotTA pause one eight hundred seventy three eighty twenty nine when we come back. We're going to switch gears and talk about a few other things. Including the city of Baltimore don't go away now is the chance to use reliable energy to grow your money with the Dominion Energy Reliability Investment our new investment product offers competitive returns no maintenance fees and flexible online access to your money money make the reliable investment in reliable energy the Dominion Energy Reliability Investment to find out more go online to reliability investment dot com. That's reliability investment dot com right now. The Home Depot has lower prices on everything for every flooring project including up to thirty five percent off tile save on the latest trends for modern mosaics to warm would look tile even the look of natural stone but tile is just the beginning their savings on all flooring and everything you need to complete your flooring project. Today is the day for doing with up to thirty five percent off tile and lower prices on all flooring. The Home Depot more saving more doing U._S.. Only valid through August. It's worth it back in Chicago one eight hundred seventy three eighty twenty nine. WE'RE GONNA go to call just more. Let's let our guest introduce themselves and we begin with huge Sherwin. I'm Judy Sherwin I am a lawyer at the firm of Red Sloan Andress Chicago <hes> and I also am a professor of of business ethics in the First Amendment in the law school of Loyal University. Okay Chris Verona's Chris Verona's. I'm a principal at ease up communications group. That's a communications consulting firm <hes> and occasional blogger walker and Mike Miller and I am an economist at Depaul University got my p._H._d.. From the University of Pittsburgh in one thousand nine hundred eighty and have had one job since then the Paul a great place to work. Oh you're the only person I hope is at one job. I've had yes and I I didn't think like pumped gas and worked home improvements before that and picked up trash for the city of Pittsburgh but I've really had in my profession a single job for thirty nine years and I've loved every minute of it well congratulate. We always love when you're here by the way one of the big stories of the actually the last several days is the tweet of the president of the United States <hes> going after the city of Baltimore more and it's a long time member of Congress Elijah Cummings who's the chairman of several committees upon which members of the administration of appeared a recently and last week early last week the Acting Director Bureau of the Department of Homeland Security Mr Kevin <hes> Macken was invited to participate in a hearing chaired by Elisha comings and if if you listen to the story of the presidential tweets and his tweet storm today on all the shows at least that I've seen I saw three shows today if you look at all the coverage all the network executive or anchors they're all <music> decrying what they described as a racist tweet by the president against Elisa coming and against the city of Baltimore and that's been the big story for the last. Let's say twenty four hours on news programs. I did not see anyone. Show you the video. We're going to show you right now which is the truth but of the Acting D._H._S.. Secretary when he appeared before the Committee Eddie of Elijah coming so let's look at that and then we're going to look at all the you know what that hit the fan after that here we go you feel like you're doing a great job over what you're saying. We're doing our level best and a very what does that mean what does that. I mean when a child is sitting in their own. Feces can't take us our come on man what's that about none of us would have our children Burnett position. They are human being and I'm trying to figure out and not get tired. Vote saying Oh oh they just beating up on the border patrol. Oh they it just be going up on what I'm saying. Is I want to concentrate on. These children and I WANNA make sure that they're OK. I will say I've said it before and I'll it again. It's not the D. that you do to adopt is the memory is the memory so in and I told the head of Border Patrol the other day I said I wanna know what's happening. In the meantime we are the United States of America. We have the greatest country in the world. We are the ones that can can go anywhere in the world and saying people makes two. They have diapers toothbrushes. Make sure that they're not laying around defecating in some Silva paper come on we're better than that okay that was Elisa coming and he was venting explained to the acting director of D._H._S.. President Trump watch that he saw he got upset and he decided decided to unleash a tweet storm. There were many tweets. I'm GonNa read one of one of them to you as proven last week during a congressional tour the border is clean efficient and well run just just very crowded coming district is discussing rat and rodent infested mess he he if he spent more time in Baltimore maybe he could help clean up this very dangerous. Chris and filthy place end of that week there were other tweets that tweet has been perceived as racist and I want to get reaction from our guests on the way in which allies are coming went after the head of V._H._S. and the way in which the president chose to react to it was a deliberate attempt to rally his base Chris Verona's well. I I mean you could say that that tweet was imprudent. Insensitive devisive. Maybe even hateful made me ignorant to accurate. Would you say it was about what's happening could it could you just the idea of the chief executive. The United States going after the People United States citizens. It just doesn't make sense. It's it's not becoming rats he wasn't talking about. He's talking about people who live there to you know maybe they're the ones supposed to clean up the reputation why I don't this idea that if a white person attacks a person of color it's automatically bosterous Austrian idea coming after the guy from V._H._S.. Why wasn't that racist because you had a black man attacking white man? They're both preposterous ideas. I it's just the idea you know I i. It's just sort of silly to have a president picking these kinds of jewelry sure what well first of all of style question of style I would agree with you about that but I hadn't seen this before this terrible what he did. I put I for the course these committees especially par for the course all right there is a crisis at the border. There is overcrowding at the border. The United States government is trying to do everything they can to deal with it. They take tours they take people with cameras. They do all kinds of things and the only thing that people want to the the media wanted talk about is Alexandria Cossio Cortez talking about people drinking out of toilets which is absolutely not going on all right so coming had not coming has not been to the border right so about the feces thing was hearsay right on his part of you didn't see it but did did that's correct. He has no idea and so the president is defending his his Homeland Security Department because he knows what they're doing and I mean I you have to should have found a better way to deal with it. Maybe but he's got this demagogue and I'm sorry he's a demagogue and he's demagoguing this issue talking about children in their own feces. Come on that is not going. That's it's not going to be true. Chris or Christopher things can be true at once. This is in my opinion conduct unbecoming of the leader of the free world should he do with the problem with anti-racism is anti-racism sees itself as a hammer and when you're a hammer everything is a nail and every kind of behavior that deviates off of what is viewed to be <hes> racist. Everything's racist and that's the problem. That's the problem that the Democratic Party in the media perpetuate that there's only one standard for racism that I have to disagree with what you say and this is what we're seeing play. I think it'd be my point about this. Morning was on the shows that I watched. No one showed the first video right now. The first video I might say described that that was the first punch that was thrown right and A. and trump then the camera's rolling then trump comes back and he tweets and I think I agree with Judy he's standing up for his law enforcement people who've been beaten up primarily by Democratic members of Congress and also by the way <hes> something that but he obviously did not address I mean here we are in the month of July and and the president has warned Congress since January that there was a crisis at the border it took seven months for the Democrats grants to come up with four point three billion dollars they could have provided better care for the people that they say are being abused there and what the what the president was the point he was making was listen you should maybe spend a little time in your our own backyard because you you've got problems in your own backyard. Don't be talking about what's going on at the border of what's going on in Baltimore City and Baltimore County and that's that's I mean I think that's a very valid point and and I mean look is it racist to describe the city the city of Baltimore in certain parts of it the way the president described has anybody in this in this world that seeing the T._v.. Show the wire. It was filmed in Baltimore. The the the situation that conditions in Baltimore were used as is almost a character in the shell and the president isn't allowed to say to Elijah Cummings. You know what why don't you take care of. What's going on in your city and and worry about that and I agree with you? One hundred percent I mean did he say it in a crude way said it is usual New York. Queens direct crashed on New York City trash-talk. Ah there here's again I I keep I keep coming back to the same thing I would hope that I wouldn't do what some of these folks have done including trump <hes> principle but the Democrats said this was a manufactured crisis and now then they're beating him over the head. They said that the trump used the s whole to talk about these countries and they oh you can't be saying that but then when they want to justify people coming to this country they described these countries as being as yes. These horrible rebel situations that no one should ever live in both he doesn't. It's bad Chicago. Perfume now is the chance to use reliable energy to grow your money with the Dominion Energy Reliability Investment our new investment product offers competitive returns no maintenance fees and flexible online access to your money. Make the reliable investment in reliable energy the Dominion Energy reliability the investment to find out more go online to reliability investment dot com. That's reliability investment dot com right now. The Home Depot has lower prices on everything for every flooring project including up to thirty five percent off tile save on the latest trends for modern mosaics to warm would look tile even the look of natural stone but tile is just the beginning their savings on all flooring and everything you need to complete your flooring project today. Day is the day for doing with up to thirty five percent off tile and lower prices on all flooring. The Home Depot more saving more doing U._S.. Only valid through August fourth. They're listening tonight and Finger Lakes the organ. It's nice to have you with one eight hundred seven two three three eight thousand two hundred nine. We'll go to calls this moment. After this quick point everyone is saying that the these tweets they're fanning the flames of racism. All the the the the pundits are saying and that it's really going after trump's base. It isn't even a whistle anymore. It's it's it's a born going after the space because they like they like when the president is beating up on a black member of Congress okay. That's that's the way they're thinking about it the other thing but I'm wondering because because trump is somewhat of a great monkey a billion thinker in some ways. I'm wondering how many African Americans if you're if you're black and you're listening to the show this evening I'd I'd like to get your response to what I'm about to say because it seems to me that if you're black and you live in Baltimore or Chicago or San Francisco or any urban area where there's a large number of blacks unfortunately there are parts of the city that are not in good shape and they may have rats and they may have other city services that have not been provided lighted and I'm wondering in many of those cases the members of Congress in those areas all democrats and the problems in those communities have been problems for five six or seven decades gates so I'm wondering when the national news media goes after President trump allegedly for soy trying to fan the flames of his racist followers. I'm wondering in how many African Americans are saying to themselves. You know what maybe the president's right. Maybe Elisha coming should have spent more of the last forty years doing on things to bring money to Baltimore City. That was a democratic President for eight years. Congress has been controlled by the Democrats for most of the last fifty years. They're controlled by the Democrats now. Oh Nancy Pelosi grew up in Baltimore. It would seem to me that between Nancy Pelosi and allies you're coming with the power of the control of the House and the purse strings they should be able to do more in Baltimore and in the inner cities of every major metropolitan area in the United States. I'm wondering whether the president's attack allegedly on Elisha coming who basically said hey go back to your own hometown and clean it up. I wonder how many African Americans live in that situation are saying Mr President. You're you're kicking. I like what you say. I don't think it's racist. I think it's calling attention to political leaders who've taken us for granted and they've given us nothing except in many cases these neighborhoods that are rat a rodent infested and they're not blaming the president for it because he's only been around for two years here and I really would like to hear from African Americans listening to this show this evening. If you think there's any truth to what I have just uttered or you think that I'm all wet either way one eight hundred seven two three eight hundred eighty nine <hes> let's go to let's go to Allan. You're listening to us in Austin Texas. He wants to talk about a Baltimore. Go ahead Allan thank you I say deals to your comment. <hes> it all. I think it's long in overseas that we've had somebody with going adds to call out the back. Politicians represented most of them are career politicians Elijah Cummings and they represented their their districts forty years at all they are interested in is more welfare money districts jobs not ah anyhow I think I commend the president. I hope people will will remember his criticism Easter. Nothing like Pie Titians as corrupt. You must be corrupt. Okay thank you for your comment. Let's go to Ellen. She's listening to us out of Youtube in Chicago. Are you there well I. I guess you're not there. How about Kevin in Austin Texas? Go ahead. Speak Up if you give me a yes. Hey I appreciate you. GotTa show thank you. I think with the president dilling deflection because what he's basically saying Elisa commies criticized the yes so you saying nobody can criticize the <unk> their district the one hundred percent straight allowed to come if has the right to criticize yes tumbles to talk about kind of district she this off about during that urban will going on trying to put money in inner cities thoughts about yeah. That's a good point. Do you think maybe he would have been called a racist at that point if he said things are really bad. Why don't you clean it up? We we all know that she's not saying anything new. But why is it racist to be. Why is it assumed that this statement has tweet was racist just like the attack on the squad why was that racist just four women with whom he disagrees and I do too and I it's not racist? It's just a difference of opinion so I think I don't think it was well. When you take everything is how trump? Live Kinda rate that way of toxic waste everybody times. We know we'll be right down Colin. Will your child be ready for kindergarten at Chester broke academy preschool. The answer is yes. Our curriculum offers the perfect balance of learning and play our our teachers personalized that experience for each child through engaging activities the develop the skills. They need to be ready for what comes next attended Chester Brooke Academy Open House on Saturday August third from ten A._M.. To One P._M.. To find a preschool near you click the banner or visit Chester Brooke Academy Dot Com. That's Chester Brooke Academy Dot Com back hour number two beyond the beltway by the way a if you did not hear the news this afternoon the President announced the Dan Coats the former senator from Indiana <hes> the head of national intelligence he is resigning. He's going to be leaving on August fifteenth and Congressman John Ratcliffe who was one of the Republican Stars of the Muller hearings last week <hes> he is going to be named by the president. <hes> and some people are speculating that one of the reasons why Mr Coates has had enough is that a lot of the advice these made made the president specifically about the importance of preparing <hes> twenty twenty against possible <hes> foreign involvement by the Russians and others and to really beef up our election <hes> situations assistance at the United States <hes> summer suggesting adjusting that's why he is leaving at this point but again <hes> that's going to be another change that will probably dominate much of the news <hes> this coming week and certainly in the democratic debates that are coming up this week as well so John or Dan Coats who was guests on this program. I really one of the real rock solid members of the United States Senate for many many years and again sort of I think sort of a surprise pick <hes> to work with Donald Trump <hes> when he was like the United States two years is is enough and he has resigned again John Ratcliffe who was pretty much of a lapdog during the hearings last week. He's now the head of national intelligence one of the most important jobs in the United States reaction reaction when you take someone who has had the record of Dan Coats and you know obviously the boss is always the boss and there was just diff- differences of opinion but it seems to me that there's a big difference between Dan Coats and John Ratcliffe based on the hearings then. I wish I had <hes> I certainly am in line with coats in terms of the issue. I think the solution is so much easier than people people are making it out to be and nobody wants to go that way which would be paper ballots counted right there and then phoned in you. Take everything off the Internet. You can't have anybody the Russians and the Chinese nobody can get into the system I have the Republicans made a mistake by not providing extra money. No <hes> insecurity for the that's not true the that that was just a farce a democratically induced farce that happened when they they asked for unanimous unanimous consent of that bill and they knew it was going to fail and they feigned their shock and surprise that it went down last year Congress allocated more than three hundred million dollars in election security so that this is just this is just an easy win the Democrats that the media swallowed whole but but but but but go ahead finish your comment about Dan coats a handy exactly the way you described them a steady hand public servant in conservative and he knew why you the conservative when he served in the Senate you for as tough as a job as the presidency. Is You want people who are going to disagree with do you don't want people are gonNA disagree with you publicly and I think I think then cook coats went there. Unfortunately I mean maybe his hand was forced. I don't know but you don't want to be surrounded with a bunch of lapdogs especially when it comes to national intelligence national security <hes> so it's a lost. I think it's a loss that Dan Coats is not steady and that we need in a position like that. Really what do you think well. I mean I I would have to agree that that it is a loss oss <hes> but I also would point out is as you just pointed out that the president does need people to disagree with them but not in the front page of the New York Times right this is just not done and and you you know every one of I think when the president came in he he tried to do as sort of balancing he put in some people who he thought were <hes> you know partisan. Were going agree with him who he felt he may maybe owed something to that should soy sessions became the attorney general <hes> but he also picked people like Dan Coats who he thought were an and mattis who he thought were professionals who were going to be good for the administration and they were they work but they they both decided that they were better than the president that the president was in necessarily the president and and they knew better about various things and they weren't gonNA discuss it out. You don't do that to the boss. I'll take this back to impeachment germ. There's one man right now. There's one reason and it's one former White House there for why we're not having impeachment right now and it's time again we wouldn't have you because he wouldn't fire muller like the president asked him to two or three times he declined and he hoped that trump brigade and that's exactly what happened. Just got off the horse and so this is the value of someone in the White House who disagrees especially <music> Eastern Country Sawyer but he's the White House counsel right and so the president goes to him and and flowed some insane idea insisted on and it's Eh in the world to do that and have a lawyer talking to me when I look at all the things that are going on. It seems to me that the smartest guy in the White House that he listens to is jared Kushner he doesn't he he is offended by either the style of some of these folks or you know I mean he was Dan coached was certainly Republican Establishment Thousand One oh one listening so there were there isn't a comfort level but again <hes> <hes> and and and and and Kushner is pushing ideas but he always has the president's ear because of the because of the family religion and we we gotta go to calls. Let's go to Linda listening to us in Austin Texas. Go ahead Linda. Are you there. How are you how are you? I am fine. How about herself? I wonder thank you good go ahead. You're on Mir yet here you regarding <hes>. I'm a black female little eight <hes> mid sixty one in to Pennsylvania. I wanted to the air force without the sometime. There is doubt when into law or spent retired from there. I'm currently living in Austin Texas near last twenty eight hours here. I've one thing I completely one hundred percent agreed with your moment of everything that's going on in Baltimore I have I voted in will vote twenty twenty where president trump he's done nothing but a great wonderful job I wanna stay off from the very beginning and very made an of that regarding arguing now people using the word rate racism your raises so arbitrarily so generally that to the point that has diminished meaning of the word the impact of that word. That's that's a very good point <hes> Linda. We've got a pause here for a moment for commercial break but stay on the line. I'm going to pick up and ask you a couple of other questions on the other side we also have a lot of callers and excellent the next segment we'll make them all callers wall to wall so don't go away we'll hear from the audience from coast to coast and border to border tonight and beyond the Beltway Uh Standby Bruce Dumont back in Chicago. We go back to Linda <hes> from Austin Texas. You identified yourself as an African American woman <hes>. How many people do you think agree with your assessment tonight Linda in the African American friends are you? Are you alone wolf for others that agree with you up now from relatives to friends I'd say close to Lone Wolf as you as I can possibly be like vision our week at until a Veggie with both friends as family I find myself Dandy alone with both my of lease my support of the president of fact voted for the president and the fact that there's nothing he has done from day one until now that has made me regret my we have made we regret my vote. You send in the last segment. You said that the use of the word racism has got to a point where it doesn't mean anything anymore. Can you elaborate on that and could you go back to Paducah. Go back to a time when you thought it still still meant something when when when did the when did the meaning of that word lose its impact for you of recently is locked the impact every any if the president agrees with anyone of Color Black Hispanic anyone of our because anything that is considered disparaging by the media assume to be rate and and when that happens I laugh out loud because I agree with almost ninety five percent of his but he says and how he views things and his perspective is a black woman would be raised as well that if we're using their definition of would've rate it would you agree now on the use of the term rat infested rat and rodent infested and he is used that analogy in other comments prior to this this would you agree that when people are talking about rat infested neighborhoods that many people when they hear those words they think that black families don't keep clean houses and is that not the basis of a perception that might exist with some whites hearing those words. I'm sure are there. I'm sure that is the gate that there are some light to proceed that and they would probably use that definitions or a very that description that <hes> blacks are or dirty. I've heard that before that date with the term you live Radin. That's <hes> ghetto right and that's that's what you're talking out but that's not what the president took him out and what he's been president. Trump has said is a fact visit change the fact that it is rat infested. There aren't ghetto and that e that e coming. He has not illogic coming not done the job he needs to do for the people of Baltimore representing and changing their the environment making the city of Baltimore veteran for everyone. who was there okay Linda? Thanks for your call. We appreciate it. Let's go to Eric who's on line four. He is listening to us on the video stream tonight and go ahead Erica. You're on the air from New Hampshire hyperth- thanks for in Cali appreciate it. Thank you you know just thinking the whole mess is Baltimore. <hes> you know <hes> cities like Baltimore hat or res- Renaissance over the last twenty years or so until the last few years and that was because they control crime right now. Bill Clinton is being treated like some kind of raises just because he wanted to not have complete and utter chaos the Democrats today like they want complete and utter chaos at the border in the city's everywhere they want. I don't know they they love America but I will. I think you're I think you're correct. I mean the the when the Democrats were in the White House and the Democrats controlled rolled a congress. You know the popularity of free strikes and you're out it's spread throughout the country from California. All throughout the country then to federal legislation and crime did go down prison. Listen populations now again now the reinterpretation of that is that it was based on race and that's that's one of the issues that Joe Biden has to deal with because he wanted to many cups on the street victims of the club and Standing Right Christiane Comet just that this is the problem with identity politics and race consciousness <hes> as as as public policy where where you're judging past actions that happened in this specific context with a standard that doesn't even exist today it just some abstract standard that probably never will exist exists and that's the insanity of the far left the squad or whatever they're called that insanity that's coming out of them where you're going to have the Democratic Party analyze itself and this practice. If you WanNa read a little bit of a Stephen Chapman and the Chicago Tribune it's also on realclearpolitics. He gave a quick history of the ninety four law and some of the large the biggest supporters for this where black legislators later masters and so forth crack is destroying as you have brought to do something to save us from these Predator the word Predator it was also an omnibus dote so it's ridiculous to pick out one thing oh this kills did like a half dozen dozen different things. I don't want to be president but I don't want him. Also I mean really unfair the attack upon him by Harris really unfair we move. I we're GONNA talk about the debates in just a moment but let's go to Angelo listening to us in Colorado and he's listening to us on Sirius X._M.. Satellite Radio Whereabouts in Colorado Angel North of Denver North of Denver Fort Collins area. Put some good in the Lakers show a lot. Thank you get on a little bit more often okay. I'm working one year at a time so the report and what are your. What are your kids? There was talking about. Trump is an obvious lapdog to WHO and I disagree with that especially when you got crazy when you got Obama with Syria and the red line and then also teach you mentioning <hes> missile defense for NATO lapdog and the good news is good news for us as Jim. Jordan said the mother report isn't going on anywhere. I should say the Weizmann report just opening up the other side now is going to start their investigations report will be coming out right album that happy fun the Durham Term The journal that will follow that they're already lost. The Democrats have got a you know they've they've got to be prepared to play a lot of defense. I think something of what what's going going on right now to they know this and that may be why they want an impeachment inquiry so they can at least get their fair Nixon for right. Thank you for your call. Let's go to Tony Listening to us that Oklahoma Thomas City go ahead. You're on the Air Tony. Hello are you there. Yes go ahead all right while I was kind of wondering because we're during freedoms to from <music> hello so turn your radio down because Ron Delay <hes> so go ahead once your radio is down okay. Are you there. Well we're GONNA are you there Tony or not or we're gonNA move onto that. They might come back to you both more fixing thing <hes> <hes> Congress Federal Congressional oversight overseas by <hes> programs where however allies trump federal worker even overseas space city maintenance that Turkey laws state governor mayor. There's no there's no question there's no question about that. However if you are a member of Congress and you represent a large municipal area your responsibility and in many cases you take pride how much federal funds you were pouring into your city? It may be improved police department it may be improved for water system and may be proved who've for education but again congressman every two years they take they take their bows on how much Federal Bacon they've been able to bring back so again. You can't connect <hes> you cannot make a direct connection but certainly certainly <hes> the fuel that comes to help many social services in in Baltimore County. It comes to the federal government. It has for one hundred years so that's anymore I know but as as as the member of Congress and the committee chair he has a lot of clout and I'm sure that that money flows into that <hes> that municipality and it goes where he would like it to go. I mean you would hope hope that that's what a member of Congress does because they are close to <hes> their constituency. They're close to the problems in the city and I would hope that congressman has something <hes> and then he would have <hes> you know the ability to the funnel money where he wants to funnel so you can't <hes> you know you can blame an Alderman you could claim a mayor you can blame the local city council but again in this particular case you also cannot look the other way and say that you you know a ranking member of Congress for over forty years. <hes> has no footprints for fingerprints on what happens in Baltimore he does back shortly doesn't back in Chicago Nice Debbie whether it's a reminder that on the thirty and thirty I I actually next week. <hes> the Democrats are going to be having their debate on C._N._N.. And again on the thirtieth let's take a look at the people that are going to be debating on the thirtieth. You Have Elizabeth Warren. You have Bernie Sanders plus you. Have you have Pete Buddha judge. You Have Amy Koba Jar. You have John Delaney. You Have Tim Ryan you have John Hickenlooper. You have Marianne Williamson. Can you have Steve Bullock. The Governor Governor of Montana will be making his first appearance and then the next night <hes> the leaders the the main card is Joe Biden and Camera Harris Julian Castro Jay Inslee the governor of Wisconsin Washington <hes> Kirsten Gillibrand from New York <hes> Chelsea grabber Gabbert rather <hes> Senator Michael Bennet of Colorado and also Bill De Blasio and Andrew Gang who was on television today and what do you think of Professor Lemme ask you K- twenty first birthday everybody in America gets a thousand dollars and every month after that they get a thousand dollars. It's no well thousand dollars a year. Every American gets it no no why is that not a good idea. I understand what he's trying to do but A. and some people will point back to talk about Milton Friedman Free Market Guy but his was a negative income tax and his idea was that everybody would be guaranteed a certain minimum but the government wouldn't give money to people like Warren Buffett or to me or to you you would only give the people who are truly in need yes and so I do not want people starving in the streets. I think we are a we should do it through our religious teaching as a Christian. I'm supposed to do that but if the government is going to be a means through which we can redistribute some. I WanNa make sure that there's no people who are starving but beyond that I don't think giving Davis here's your twelve thousand dollars because part of the plan is to do away with with Welfare. It's not happen. That's all you would do. This is through the I._R._S.. You would you would need no bureaucracy running things such as aid to families with dependent children so for everybody would be guaranteed this minimum income and how much running through the I._R._S.. How much money would be saved if you did away with those of various agencies? I just don't believe that it'd be done away with. They're not gonna be done away so anyway I I the the idea is interesting. I I like a debate on it. It's well he's going to try to do it. Well legitimately today spent that they can happen nowadays but it was Milton Friedman idea. It's Charles Murray actually support absolutely right now Friedman I would but the point that you made like is I agree with it. The reason why it's the ideas not attractive is because the the welfare bureaucracy that we have ain't going anywhere and this is being sold by conservatives as like a dollar for dollar swap almost but you will never get rid of Medicaid for example. You'll never get rid of T._A._N._F.. And that's why I think the wheels come off. This idea is interesting as it is by the way they the Fox News <hes> came out with a presidential poll last week and the President like this poll at all for doing all right how old right but it shows this is this they had had <hes> if the election were held immediately which is not Biden would beat the president forty nine to thirty nine ten point lead need Bernie Sanders would have a six point lead forty six percent of the president's forty percent and Elizabeth Warren <hes> she would lose to the president she would run behind the president by one point forty one to forty two. That's certainly within the margin of error as would a Kamala Harris at forty percent <hes> to trump's forty one percent so the two women would be slightly behind the two men would be slightly ad and Pete Buddha judge was not in that in that run up as and he's surprising that <hes> I I I find it preposterous would of course it is at this point in the election and yeah but the idea that once it's down to one Democrat and Republican and the Democrat has to live with all those crazy ideas that have come out during this this primary season like we have to protect the abortion rights of men right things like this are gonNA come out and they're gonNA bite the and there's not a chance that Joe Biden can keep up with the energy of Donald Trump. He's going to appear to be that's a doddering. We're not going to elect dollar baller. Look sharp in comparison. I was out shopping yesterday and I found something I almost I almost bought it for you. It was it was it was a toy store they had they had all action. Figures and I saw an action figure for Elizabeth Warren. Oh it's an action doll and its there's the action dollar. If you're watching television there it is he's got the Little Red Jacket and it's right next to the mall right next to the Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton I mean that's the thing now not all adult with doll. Schooled is mentioned many times on this program that you know when we talk about <hes> you know. A win ability and the ability to win obviously more and more Democrats are saying they're looking for a candidate that can win as opposed to someone that they're absolutely madly in love with right in a politically so we've always said that it really if you're talking me about actually Wisconsin and Michigan and Pennsylvania and to some extent Ohio Ohio is pretty much. I think considered more of a republican state now but these those three states. If you look at Michigan Wisconsin in Pennsylvania you see that Michigan Has Sixteen Electoral College Votes Washing <hes> Wisconsin has ten Pennsylvania has twenty for a total of forty six electoral votes those Ios forty-six electoral votes really that's the election. If Donald Trump does not do well in those races. Donald trump is not going to be re elected president of the United States and look at the numbers these are the this is the margin margin of error from two thousand and sixteen ten thousand seven hundred and four votes in the State of Michigan Twenty Two thousand seven hundred forty eight in Wisconsin and forty four thousand in two hundred ninety two in Pennsylvania a total of seventy seven thousand seven hundred and forty four votes. That's it but see that's vote switch folks and again the president is going to have the element of surprise but he does still have the element of people do not want to admit they're going to vote for that element. He still has number one number two. I think that he's probably they doing better in those states that you were pointing out then he was doing in in twenty sixteen. I don't see those states flipping. I really don't because the people in those states still have the same issues they had add. They've had some change in terms of things getting better. They know that the getting better has been due to Donald Trump and question the idea that they're just all gonna go run and vote for I. I don't even know who they gonNA vote for. I mean maybe Joe Biden. Joe Biden void could resurrect the Joe Biden of ten years ago even all right but he's not that a big difference is the the level of of this hatred that many people had for Hillary Clinton there really isn't anybody in this race. I don't think that has the level of hatred against her like the like. No I would agree. I would agree that that was that was a no it was the amount of being so disliked she also called many people old deplorables. She started having a contract. I had to go back for family reasons into that area and I went to breakfast and in this small diner in exurban Pittsburgh there are a lot of trump hats. There were people and I think think it has an I talked to one of them. I said where did you get the hat and so forth and and we talked for about ten minutes and he's very much in favor of the president what he's doing and I think a lot of people in in Pennsylvania for insulted by what if the Democrats called them their guns and and and hugging behind they haven't forgotten that I haven't I haven't forgotten the fact that I was called a deplorable and I've been called essentially because Republican on Nazi and all these different names the people are called just because of our party affiliation so that's how the vendor even though we are not angry against Hillary were angry against a party that looks down on us the way that they do some Democrats are arguing the the the way that you win in these states if you look at where these seventy seven thousand votes came from they came from in many cases the big cities like Philadelphia and like Detroit and and and and in Madison and Milwaukee rather you look at those markets and the the number of African American voters was significantly down. I think it was fairly the same in Philadelphia but it was the lack of black turnout in the a big urban areas of those states. That was the difference. That's the seventy seven thousand votes so so what do you any candidate is going to bring I mean do you think Kamala Harris is has the appeal that Barack Obama a hat as the first black man to run for the question is who's question is the question. Do you think new question is do you think that the that Komo Camera Harris would do better than Hillary Clinton. That's that's what you've gotTA. Measure is. There's somebody out there. That's going to do better with Hillary Clinton. That's going to get a larger lack load without being someone that is a level of hatred that at that Hillary as the challenge and when we come back I want you to make because we have one more segment to go and we will bring it to you shortly. Don't go away. Eh Bruce Dumont back in Chicago. We got a <hes> email here saying that they don't think your deplorable Mike you put it up for a vote but but she even said that I was irredeemable and I think Christian I find that absolutely insoluble. Every soul is redeemable and it's for her to say that you are deplorable irredeemable. That was the one I to this day. It's still bugs me. Even Elizabeth Warren everyone every mark. You're listening to us on. Where are you listening to US Mark Radio? You're listening to the radio very good at what what's your question. Well <hes> just two quick things <hes> you can put racism next to the term breaking news. I think they're they're so old now and then I I just WanNa make a comment that <hes> about a year and a half ago president trump said something about the country country of Haiti he called it s little country yes and about a week later the B._B._c. a <hes> had a film crew in Florida and they interviewed a bunch of patience and they said he's right. That's why have we and we're living in Florida as you're saying how corrupt the government in Haiti raiders and these a death we move to Florida to get away from the corruption and president president trump is right now. That's that's. That's a good point. You don't get another point of that came up this <hes> this week mark and I want to get your thoughts on it and this did not get a lot of publicity because you know the president's steps everytime he tweets he upstages is is message but there was a big agreement with Guatemala right this week and basically Guatemala agreed to cooperate with the United States to be a third third countries so that anyone who's living in in the in the triangle down there any one of those three countries they can go to Guatemala. They can make their application for asylum to the United States right there. The decisions can be made there and then if you're if you make it to the United States you make the next step now. This was something that you know. This didn't sound like this was this idea that needed the think tank to come up with this idea but finally president trump got it done and he said by the way you said you know there's been some encouragement for them to do it and maybe they're gonna see it was it was the use of tariff to assertive. That's been problem that that doesn't do need Congress to be involved of course and I've argued over the years. I've been on the show that as a conservative I am very much in favor of Immigration Asian legal immigration they come in through the front door and this is the perfect way and I'd be willing to accept twice as many legal immigrants but just please come in the front door and this is but you're not allowed to say that I'm probably now a racist because I said Judy well. I mean yeah I agree. That was a wonderful agreement. I mean I think also the agreement that he's made with Mexico to to deal with with the migrants and the problems there there's also been downplayed and and hardly anybody knows anything about it. Some of that is because you know he he issues tweet storms and then people focus on that but put the media's very happy to. I mean this is Bate. This is stuff that people WANNA see <hes> they're not so interested in an agreement that might actually solve the illegal immigration problem between now and next move. I agree with I mean we get an impasse immigration because neither side wants a deal basically w-we Nancy Pelosi the Democrats will not give Donald Trump victory any kind of okay I agree with the Supreme Court gave him a victory with a couple of dollars in the course of the Supreme Court Lord already blown very so there was this to this miserable thing going on in the federal courts where one District Court judge will show a nationwide injunction. That's what happened with the border wall situation. The Sierra Club filed a lawsuit. The judge issued this national injunction and one of the things that the Department of Justice has done since Jeff sessions left is become very aggressive in their litigation <hes> <hes> posture with respect to the Supreme Court and they applied to the Supreme Court to cut through <hes> having to wait a year to figure out what happens with the border wall and the Supreme Court took a look at this and they lifted the stay now when a court lifts the state they they go to great lengths to tell you we're not doing this on the merits of they don't lift the stay if they think that the merits are not going to break in the direction of the Party asking you to lift the stay so likely the president will after he uses the money because the reason this decision had to be made now as it had to be made before the end of the fiscal year and they had used the money so he's he's GonNa use the money and that's that's it I mean it's going to really be a moot point. Once the living litigation is going to continue but the issue is going to be pretty much resolved but the but the issue is still an issue in in in the minds of the public because of the pictures that exist our women and children being treated unfairly or unpleasant any way that at that the people who opposed getting more money those people with the Democrats and to get the money was the president of the United States and its right and he was the one that said there was a crisis and they said there's no way and now the crisis <hes> we're out of time for those standing on the line now we are sorry. Were not able to get you this evening but I want to. Thank our guest Perot. Thank you very much for being with us. Judy Sherwin always a pleasure listen to have you with us and Might Depaul University. Thank you very much thanks to Hector and Breda Andrew and France for their assistance in the production this program. I'm Bruce Dumont until next Sunday night good night wrong. 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