2 Episode results for "Denise Bruder"
Swaying to the Future of Work
"There's a complete disconnect in this moment in time between the corporate message with divisions are actually rolling out new a people themselves want. So there's gonna be some kind of a settling process over these coming months as people settle into routines at actually worked for them. I'm dan smolen. And this is the. Dan mullen podcast. We help people to navigate the future of work to work that is profound protects. The planet empowers people and communities and is fun to do meaningful work the stories that our guests tell and the insights that they provide will inspire you to connect with work and experiences that stoke your passions and make the world a better place where the future of work is meaningful work this week near delighted by news at the nation continues to emerge from the pandemic and for the first time since the pandemic started new york city. Once the nation's epicenter recorded no kobe deaths that city and many others are roaring back to life and a key indicator of lives resumed. Is that restaurants. Which last year were shuttered. Have booked tabled reservations several weeks out but while restaurants and brick and mortar retail are coming back to life. Many co located workplaces remain deserted in new york city. Less than fifteen percent of professional workers have returned to their traditional offices findings vary but it is likely that as many as half of all workforce professionals will adopt a work from anywhere approach to continue working from home office remotely from a non office venue or in a hybrid manner seventeen months of workplace disruption force professionals to adapt to sudden change and rendered many of them agility experts. At first the stresses of remote work sent many to a panic state but now those same people languish. They don't despair but they're not thriving languishing. People may seem effective on the job but they long for more joy and purpose doing work as part of their day and not their entire day and with that background. I am pleased to welcome. Denise bruder back to the podcast she is a nationally recognized workplace futurist and the co founder of future of work community sway workplace throughout the pandemic denise and her team dug deep into how people adjusted to their highly disrupted workplaces. And she is working hard to help them sway in the future of work. I spoke with denise bruder in may twenty twenty one over assume denise bruder welcome back to the podcast are good morning and is it a pleasure to be back and it's a pleasure to see you my friend. So you're the co founder of sway and for those who didn't meet you last year when we first introduced you what is sway. And what does it benefit to people who work so yes. We met last year when a lot of the code experiences. Kinda new and we've been studying the future of work before that. So what we're doing sway as myself as a workplace futurist and my co-founder is a future for coach and together. We spent the last two years developing and researching body of knowledge around the future. Work and flexibility. And what we did in the end was revoked. The playbook we look literally wrote the playbook on how to work flexibly so our playbook is we do its way. We have a workshop experience around that we're building community around that so communities of people and members. They're looking to master. The skill of flexibility and develop a future mindset says we do in our community product and on the other side of sway. We're developing thought leadership series on the. Why because i really think that. The how is super important nesting media problem or dressing. Now how do. I work flexibly. How do i schedule myself. But the real undiscovered gender in all of this. Is we stage. We start asking yourself why. Why does this matter. Why do we want flexibly what is changing. And why does it matter to me. Says the thought leadership side sway. And that's where we're running with so you're a community and people pay to be a part of it. What could a member expect in terms of content programming and value from sway. So all remembers come to us for a workshop and a learning experience and what that is. It's alive engaging intensive looking experience around the playbook which is your personal plan for how you are going to work flexibly. So i think we're moving away from the command and control structure of top hierarchy moving more towards a personalized playbook at how use literally are going to schedule your time your day. Your energy do you re engineer. How you communicate and see people worked together flexibly so we literally end are learning point with a plan in place for you how to do it. Well that's what members come to us for but the beauty about the idea of community is that we continue the conversation so we really believed that if each of work to empowerment is a journey so we have a really practical touch point with our lavar members. So they're empower and they know how to work flexibly. We continue the conversation community over the long term with our members of like minded people that are interested in mastering those skills over time. I think one of the things were really going to be struggling. With as a workforce is the reintroduction to the work place. Whatever that means you came out of the financial space. And i know places like goldman sachs the ceo. They are. He wants everything to go back to the way. It was in the old days which i think aligns with that command and control construct that you just mentioned. It's really about control. What are your thoughts about the introduction and sort of the framing structures. We have to put around the benefits of working from anywhere so in terms of the reentry. There are three conversations happening. So tina which is why they're such kind of confusion about this and why is such an emotional. Entanglement there is the broad scale messaging through corporation so when goldman's ceo came out and said where what's the seats will match office where at apprenticeship model definitely value to that horse human contact. You can't beat that but that's like a broad scale message. Well we're finding through being boots on the ground in this year. This industry is that. There's something very different actually happening behind. Closed doors of companies. So there's a broadscale message. That's designed to create a sense of expectation and move people to look one direction. But then when you get to the next level what's actually happening within the company's very different top level message oftentimes. They're letting divisions work out for themselves. How do your divisions and how your teams wanna reentry and that could be very different to the corporate message but then the third layer is what are the actual. People wanna do. Which again is could be totally disconnected. So we've been having conversations recently with people that are coming to meet in the middle where you have workers media management trying to get to consensus on what looks like so one particular example. The management team want one weekend when we go out. The people we've been speaking with are saying. I'm going to try that but it's not gonna work me. I actually want something different. So because a complete disconnecting this moment in time between the corporate message what division are actually rolling out new people themselves want. There's gonna be some kind of a settling process over these coming months as people settled into the routines. It actually worked for them. So i think this is where the idea. Patients have practice kuzan being very thoughtful and not reacting thoughtfully respond. And that's what we coach to in our community that's where our members are paired had this endurance and the idea patient practice getting to the point of what works for them. And then you add the layer of something called languishing which adam grant from the new york. Times wrote so beautifully about last month. And for those who are not familiar with the term i would describe it as the muddling middle between thriving and in a place of despair so when we started the pandemic and when you and i spoke were all locked down in our little home offices and i think a lot of people who were not up the thrill of the change struggled with high intensity anxiety sort of like the fighter flight mode type of adrenaline pumping freaked out kinda mindset. But as you. And i spoke a lot of people discovered. Hey this working remotely has a lot of benefits. I get the sikh family. I can be with my pets. I can rearrange my day around the day and not an eight or ten or twelve hour part of my day. That is just for work. I think the prospect of going back to what was before the pandemic. i don't think it freaks people out. But i think that they are. Maybe some are. There's this middling aspect where i don't know how i feel about it and i really liked some of the aspects of being at home. I do miss the face to face contact. So what's going on here from a workplace perspective that we need to be very intentional about. What are your thoughts right. So that was an excellent article by added ranch. And i think that it really encapsulated in words. But we're all kind of feeling. I'll give you the answer and then back into how i think about that right now. We have a question mark. We just don't know and uncertainty so uncomfortable for people. I don't know how. I'm gonna react when i go back. I don't know how i'm going to convince people to say out. Do i wanna say how can i do. It was just a big question. Mark when you back to the original idea of languishing. I don't think that languages anything new people. His life work life personal life. There's an ebb and flow at is just continuously coming in the tights. Coming in this coming out. We're often in state languishing. And we're also often in a state of the opposite languishing. Which is feeling completely at your full potential. That's not anything that's new. Trust was really interesting about this past years that we've been in a prolonged state of languishing and the reason is that it is is actually. This is why this is such an interesting. Human experiment is that we experienced things in work. And i work with teens at touch point to others. So if you're out in the morning you're going to you're gonna you're jumping on the train. Pobably save people every day. You pick your coffee. The person you get into the office you see people around you. You mean only actually have a real conversation with a handful of people that you might see to fifty sixty seventy people on your daily commute. And that's how we experience life every day through these visual or actual plus brings people. So we've been living for the last year but we haven't really been alive. Has it felt like it because we've missed this interaction with people. All the time spontaneous sometimes intentional and we experienced like the touch points to others. So this last year has muted. everything it's muted. Are the things that we do is mute. Noise and distraction muted. Our touch point of others has been a very low key simplified way of living. She's felt unnatural. Because we're not out feeling the energy volvos and doing all these things. So i think that languishing in this case it's been an extended period of things felt in the past and we've left with this question. Mark really question is on the person how they perceive this one. The want to do with it. Mark the why. We think the idea of being able to new new isn't distraction just by simply we couldn't go places we couldn't do things we couldn't be on the hamster wheel running running running in some ways. We had to stay still sit in it. It's allowed us to actually like declines. As we reentered into the workforce as we design our strategies. We can pick what we want to bring back into our life. Our work life personal. How do we read rebounds this. We're starting to someone of clean sleek languishing for sure extended period. Yes uncomfortable absolutely. The greatest learning happens in points. Time when you're feeling the most uncomfortable. And i think it's an empowering police the be able to make that decision to carve your work life in a thoughtful way on the back of this quiet muted non shack environment truly. Set yourself off for success and to really re engineer. How you see yourself fitting into work to avoid the burnout where you're experiencing pre pandemic so from our perspective for the why the workplace why we think this has actually been a benefit. He felt is actually to your advantage to have experienced people to reset yourself. How you see work. You said something so profound de uncomfortable aspect of all this. That's really when change happens. That's what changes culture and the world of art culture changes when wars happen and things bump up against each other and create crisis. So you're right for people who are like i don't want the crisis. But that's when the real change has happened. And i think has happened in a revolutionary way. We're changing what worked means really for the first time in over one hundred years i mean we're we're we literally now have shaken off the shackles of the past at an industrial mindset. Coming them point of fear and removing it and that's uncomfortable changes really really hard changes. Also really empowering opportunity empowering feeling to be able to kind of craft it. but you're absolutely right. It's a hundred year change. That's where we're experiencing right now but the really interesting thing about that is that it's no longer. We fragmentation his idea that you know we used to live in a command shocker. It was easy you had one way to work at. Go to the office butts in seats nine to five super simplistic one world. But now we find ourselves living in worlds if you have a company of ten thousand new living in ten thousand world one amongst and thousand worlds one nets a really different perspective for how you engage at work and how you manage the workplace. That's what the opportunity is is actually chart your horse neck unhappy now. One of the really uncomfortable things i think about is a former executive recruiter. And it's about that. Command and control. Structure is that structure worked often for high flying executives. Why because what. They respond to bigger title more money and more power and now i think with the changes. The work is about getting things done. It's about moving the needle in the right direction in the proper direction and so now ones utility is valued probably more for the group involvements. What that person does to further the positive outcomes that the company or the organization wants to do as opposed to furthering the personal outcomes. You agree with that easy. That's why work is a. It's not a tricky thing. But it's a double edged sword because work is we've talked about this in the past at work is in our minds. It's global language. We all speak language of work. It's so fundamental it is literally we do. Is the language used louis together. Sometimes competition start with that like. Where do you work. What do you do the you know. Connections increases for uniformity and also provides all kinds of not only. Does it keep you out of poverty. Pay your bills but it creates a sense of hope allows you to find a discover your sense of purpose. So it's such a multifaceted topic and when we show up to workplace as you mentioned there the the company means to get things done. They need to get their hit. The bottom line at each room meet their objectives each improve the company's overall jacobs but it's interesting that patch. What's also at the back of this is that there's a there's a change in the attitude of how the people see what they expect from work in the workplace and with a company expects worker is fundamentally changing and that's the i think the uncomfortable part about it and that's why we're in transition. You know i wrote a script to talk to you today and in pretty much throwing out because things are things are happening so quickly. I read a lot. I read so much. I don't even know what the sources are anymore. I just remember the key points. And i read something within the last twenty four hours about the gender aspects of returning to workplaces in you. I'm sure you saw the same article. There is terrible concern about the impact on women going back into the workforce and especially from a standpoint of will men be disproportionately co located in their old opposites verses women who because they may have family responsibilities or other responsibilities still need or they feel they need to be working remotely so that they can work all those other aspects of their lives. What's going on here. Denise and what do we need to do to mitigate what could if we don't fix it become a huge gender crisis in the workplace. Okay now now now. This is my jam right here now about now. Now i'm gonna roll up my sleeves on this one all right for. It is absolutely the case that women have been completely killed of these of this last year. And you even team. We have a female lead team at way. And even we're in this future work flexibility space and once went psycho bit hit we all were completely displaced by the need to have to take care of our hometown. Civilities real concern or the benefit that we have here is the fact that gender inequality has lots to pay and pay levels and the inclined exists between the genders. That's not going to go away anytime soon. It's a systematic problem and the kinsey. I this is broken wrong as the idea that the real reason that we have a huge disconnect between emma get income inequality genders that women. Just can't get past that first step up into management because they're so by the need to cover lots of pieces and so the idea about embarrassments just simply aren't enough women in the labour poll to advance a meaningful rate. So this last. This last year has shown us at any kind of gains that we thought that women had in the world of work is really only on paper. The really weren't gains and that we have systematic and pervasive lack of support for families at work. And that's gonna continue until we have a fourth intervention. I this is why we feel so strongly flexibility. Being the coach norm excitability gives you a choice of where when you work in a culture of trust and empower families to be time for matters for them. So i'm using the word family. Excess with this is. This is a human issue. This is not a women's issue. This is a family issue which is a community. She which is human issue so the major upside to the last year is i believe the fact that periods of families have coke working at this together even referencing myself. My husband and i have been partnering together on this past year. Keeper kids in school to keep jobs in place we partner really well. We've been fortunate that he has seen in the last year. Different dynamics your family. He feels very involved and he has been involved and its intention the state as involved going forward. But that's not something you could ever teach describe. Put a diversity inclusion metric around. You had to go through the experience so it's my hope that coming out of back cove. It has actually been a blessing in disguise. In the sense families. Feel more of that structure and understand that is to have to share the responsibility in raising a family and it could be in breach flexibility. Just to for that. That's actually systematic intervention that will enable the future is female as we see it futurist female eleven that well and i think most people work in smaller than larger businesses but at the larger ones have to put some pedal to the metal in higher or appoint more women to their boards of directors ship. Right you know what a c. Or a chairman of the board wants board members. He say he because it's mostly he goes to the dudes. He knows that he plays golf with right all right. I'm being a little pejorative. They're right but until we get more intentional about making that bored. Look more like america. It's going to be very difficult to institutionalize all these positive changes. I believe and that's why in my mind. The diversity inclusion metrics ten fallacy about that really important to have that force intervention. But when you're trying to create a diverse inclusive workplace you're funding people back into a system of work excluded them from the beginning to leaky bucket so our system of were generally speaking is one big massive leaky bucket. This is going to continue to happen. Unless we have change at the level of which the back on the back of covid flexibility and embracing flexibility could be one of those worth interventions. That really truly systematically equalize the playing field to men and women and ultimately leads to a stronger bottom line and more competitive nation ashley. Speaking 'cause i believe one of our biggest asset s in the country is are female potential. Oh i would agree with that I would agree with that. I think women they think differently. I think they're better collaborators. I used to place a lot of senior executives and sales the women were better at it and the men they had a different skill. Set about getting to the yes the mended. The men were all about the money. The women were about solving a problem typically rights. So that is why we just gave a presentation this week on the future as female and the reason we think that is because the labor pool demographics. There's just simply more women in the labour polls actually tilted more female education rates are tilted female so the projections that the actual makeup of women in the workforce is increasing. It's becoming increasingly female. And at the point you just mentioned might. Their future of work skills is on elevating student capabilities and his black people call the softer skills. Collaboration teamwork and empathy that. Come very naturally with female energy so for all of those markers signals are pointing to the features female which means we've got a problem. We simply have a problem. Because nationally speaking systematically we don't support women at work in a material way that really truly allows acidity. So it's our hope. That calvin and even this feeling languishing gets us uncomfortable. Because when you're uncomfortable you really have self examination and with that. Can we finally addressed light implement real change in the world of work. I think we can and you talk about family and family can be the the kiddos you have in the house but it also can be the broader feeling of the tribe. Now i bring this up because the old hiring manager construct is manage the pnl and make sure everybody is on point. Okay great but we're all sentient beings as you pointed out so now. Today's hiring manager needs to be intentional about checking in to see how everybody is doing from a health and wellness standpoint chan. How's it going at home. How's your life going. What do you do when you're not working get to know people and that's something new and very uncomfortable and i was curious what your thoughts are about that. And what the benefits of becoming more intentional about asking about health and wellness would be. So that makes me think about the idea bringing your whole salsa work of me very comfortable about just being yourself in the workplace but i think actually practically speaking that goes back to trust. It's a hard line to follow. What is the what is my personal connections professional connection people. How do i see the whole person in a respectful way and we follow a rule and we prescribe this about trust. I hear you. I see you i value. You could follow those three things in any relationship. Whether it's a friendship could be your spouse manager. You're going to have a very successful relationship because you're gonna have trustful communications and that can come very natural to people. So how do i see you. How do i actually hear you. And how do i value you. That will ease fallen book that mantra it'll allow to stay in touch and keep your finger on the pulse of your team. And how do they look. How are they behaving. What is a product how the behavior means in ways. It makes me think soon. Something's not right here. Because i hear you i see i value. Actually you can see how you are. And i'm in tune within that allows you to ask the right questions of the right time so it doesn't have to be spontaneous slack. Random coffee chat stay in tune with people just by opening up a channel real communication. And then you're gonna know if something's off and you can ultimately the best thing about that is gift something before it becomes a real issue. The thing most excited about the niece. And i'm looking at you and you're my dear friend. I consider you part of my extended family. Your i feel such kinship to you and love and adoration met in person but we will email the thing. I'm so proud of with. You is in the time that i've known you is how much your scholarship has scaled. I'm listening to you. And i am just blown away by your thought leadership in the future of work and i'm wondering if you could share with the audience. What the journeys been light frigate Her what discredit has been a journey as future of work. Yeah and that's also why i describe. Its way we divide our house into two. We have the perfecting the how. How do i actually work. Flexibly answer that question. We really lean in and feel good about the why. That's really interesting to us. Because that's the bigger conversation to be had and all of our thought process around that just simply centered around humanism human design. What is it to be a human and really understanding that or frailties and all the areas where we can shine and having people embrace all that they had so our greatest interest in sway. It's helping people understand the potential that they had not yet found themselves. That's why our approaches ways as a workplace futurist. I partner businesses the future. Where coach you believe together we can bring that skill set but also that mindset that allows people to really untapped potential completed yet discovered themselves. We just fundamentally believe the human design were all designed so purposeful with so much potential and that the game of life is to find that spot which is difficult. But it's one hundred percent positive we've done that sway and we model all of our thinking around that so we lean on the uae to help people feel. That's way we say. Our north star is what we call workers a lifestyle as the opposite of work life balance work life balance. Makes you think that your two different people to parts of the day. We're like that's not true. You're born one person. You're one person living one life and we're endeavouring to make account to the language of work ness where we live with our members people the field they find their sense of purpose. That's a big thing. That's a journey. So he leaned heavily on that development of that line of thought and we practically bring that into our communities from members feel that live at. That is just brilliant. Denise bruder it's always a pleasure and i know we'll we'll have you back on again because this conversation evolving in the most amazing ways and i adore you. You are my friend. And i am so excited about the work that we're doing together for those listeners. Out there who are not familiar with sway. I wondering if you could point them to your social media and some of your thought leadership absolutely. So we're in lincoln instagram primarily and twitter at sway workplace. You could find. We put a lot of material out there in having gauge with our members white. Then you can join our community a workplace dot com to find information links into our community. Just jump right in our community. Join us and help us. Interest on the future work like so much. Unix really enjoyed this links to denise breeders and sways social media are included in the show notes for this episode at dan. Smolin dot com meantime. If you haven't done so please. Subscribe to the podcast. Where ever you get them or listen to. Current and past episodes on our website at dan smell and dot com. And please take a moment to positivity rate and comment where ever you listen to this podcast because that helps us to connect with new listeners. I'm dan smolen. And this is the dan smell and podcast. Thank you for joining us. On an amazing journey to the future of work doing meaningful work. And do you remember this. Our best days lie ahead. Let's connect again next week.
Can Work Make You Healthy?
"I truly believe that work as a medium is the purest way and perhaps the only way to think about actually discovering health. I'm Dan Smolin, and this is the tightrope podcast we tell the stories of people who are defining the future of work. Our guests walked the tightrope away from meaningless toil, and towards work that has profound protects the planet and Powers People and is fun to do meaningful work. The stories that our guest tell and the insights that they provide will inspire you to connect with work and experiences that stoke your passions and make the world. A better place for the future of work is meaningful work. This week we need Denise Ruder. She is the founder of sway workplace, a professional community and career platform that enables overworked people to transition to and succeed in a flexible workplace to that end, Denise helping lead people to the meaningful work of their dreams and this episode you will discover the why moment that led denise along a journey to help others get more enjoyment and fulfillment out of work. She also describes how work today which sixty six percent of US find somewhat to very meaningless, can be reimagined to make us healthy. We spoke with Denise Bruder earlier this week on sue. Denise Bruder welcome to the tightrope. How are you I'm doing well today. It's a little hot outside ready, but we'll salter through. We'll do this. We will, and we have an older houses. One's on air conditionings were all hugging the same zone. Oh my goodness! Well, let's get to it. You are the founder of sway workplace. What is that and what is your mission? So, sweet workplace is a community of people that are mastering flexible work, and what are intended is way is to bring together people professionals that are intent on working smarter and not harder and together we see the collective tool as being that of flexibility, because if you can adopt a flexible mindset, no way working. We think that is the ultimate way of finding balance in life, which allows you to find meaning in work, which is also another way a future proofing your career. So, how do you do that? How do you get people to thrive doing the work that they do want to enjoy doing? I think big way that we do it. Is You know if you were to boil down our product platform? It is a learning and development solution set some dates recognizable, and within our learning development solution. We offer a lot of skills, training and techniques, so you can learn something, and you can learn technique to develop something, and you have our community, which is a space to grow, and that to me is the ultimate former progress, but the greatest thing that we actually look at and private is the idea of helping. People see that there's another way being. There's another way of looking at yourself and how you approach work, and it is the idea of helping people. Break the feeling of Nur Sha. So this is always the way we've worked as always. We've done it always. We are thought to seeing the light that they you do options and how you see yourself and how you approach work, and how you evolve, so a lot of that is actually is the flexible mindset which we think will lead to a sense of the dougherty and was judy. You have the ultimate tool to finding purpose amounts. So I got to the why question. How did you get to sway workplace and I guess by extension. What's your origin story into discovering this path that I am taking to towards helping people get to meaningful work. A lot of times when you find something that is very purposeful for you. It oftentimes feels like a bit of a life long mission. I would say that for me, so I grew up in a small town in the west of Ireland and Irish people and Arlen as a culture have had a very long history of immigration over centuries it always centered around work or the absence of work, and then when you had worked value in work so for me. The idea of work always played a significant team in everything that I did by the people that I was around. And like most people, I had an opportunity fortunate opportunity to go to university. I came to the US to work in finance, and after several years of working in corporate job I had started family so very traditional pather people. A couple years ago I had this kind of point in time where I was at a juncture in life, and I had young children to take care of and I wanted to be in their life, and I had an opportunity for this great job that I knew we kinda helped my career along, but to take that job. I had to be in the city I live about an hour an hour and a half away. And had to make a decision between what what goes McKenna's and had this point in time where I was. Why do I have to make a decision to for to forgo or sacrifice some part of my life? What I know I can do couldn't do a great job here in this new role and I WANNA be participating my family, and at the same time I observed my husband who loves his job, but he spends up to three hours a day commuting back and forth treated. It's not the job at exhausts him. They actual commute. That really drinks energy. And the the real flexible lose two points on like there's got to be better way. I'M A. Tesla is floating speaks as we speak, and we can't seem to collect a league move forward in the world of work to a modern way thinking about things so that point in time that I was at what else is, there must be a better way. I think snacking time I started studying the future of work which is turned. People become a little more aware of and when I started. Looking at the idea of how technology is influencing how we work how we consume are. I understood that there was a massive opportunity for change in modernizing work so in solving my own pinpoint IQ mcdaddy of sway to a platform. We kind of at its core is a future of work readiness platform for the everyday person. We can modernize work step into an ultimate elite humanize it I simply taking a little step to the left or a little step to the right and incorporating flexibility the way life. Step to the right step to the left of swing. We call the company. Sway because we don't think this is monumental change. We think that he just a little Shimmy to the left Sch- image of the right could unlock huge amount of human potential in our workforce. I think you just got onto something because and you and I both been in situations where the work had some meaninglessness aspect to it and the idea of changing. It is just so overwhelming. If we had known then what you and I know now that just a little nudge slept a writer backer fourth could get us to a better place. We probably feel better about changing our circumstances I. Think a lot of people for whatever reason aren't able to imagine that little amount of movement can make great strides of progress in your life. While you know I, think that most people that are in the world of work. They see delighted into the Thanh. They know the new. There's more there and I think there's a huge disconnect between people, subconscious and conscious. which is this idea that I know? I feel like I'm stuck. More here I just can't see it because consciously. I'm GONNA boxes and boxes traditional model you know so. We have a model work today that is literally one hundred years old, and stemmed from the factory system and one hundred years ago, we were manufacturing economy that suited the a nation wonderfully, because we developed common standard of living the American dream, our ideals and our values all grew from the idea of work in a box, but one hundred years later. We've evolved to be a knowledge economy very very very very different, so. So we're expecting people to be creative and be collaborative, and beyond a bettine orientated for making them work in a box and this to speak huge disconnect to people's lives. I'm busier and busier and busier, so I think that people intuitively know that it changes, do and had such a desire to make it happen but I. Don't think people have the confidence to know that they can actually make a change at. They actually owned their career and the decisions that they make because they're so used to being put in a box. Well that idea that you mentioned about the workforce. You know we talked about that in pre interview and she gets it. Henry Ford is probably the object lesson of creating that idea of a job where you transact, you work really hard, and you get paid and alongside of that, and also alongside of the fact that a lot of people suffered in work, we ended up building a union movement in this country without came workforce protection, but it also provided what they call the safety net. So that you you work hard. You weren't going to fall into despair. Despair, economic despair, and lose your house or lose your car or something, but we're at a point right now. Where all those workforce safety nets are falling apart there unraveling, so how does making the work that we do more meaningful? Get affected by the fact that some of the institutional structures that we put in place with the union movement and with government and other stakeholders that those things are not as enduring as they used to be. So I think that I've always been fascinated by the past history like Ozzy I had a fight a wish I really a time capsule and go back like one hundred years and just experience. Life was like I've always been history, and I think I've come to the realization. Why and I think that is because to understand where we are today, you must understand or Or have a view on the past. The greatest thing we can do is look back in the nineteen thirties in response to economic difficulties, Moose vaults hired on Francis Perkins as Labor Secretary and she said to him I can come on board, but if I do, I'm going to change things. We're going to entity so what hundred years ago the government and the? The working bodies and companies came together. We actually created social safety net. We created a forty hour work week. We created unemployment insurance at all these other benefits that are tied to traditional work. We need that up with we design that and put that in play because you were coming out of such disorganized Lieber Movement, so to solidify increased shock around Labor, we designed. Designed those innovations that we put in place a hundred years ago. Because as soon as the comment time, so your point, there is so interesting fast forward one hundred years later here today and I think we see that social safety nets structure of work, which played a significant -nificant part in economic foundation of this country is do another level of just significant innovation. So. Where does that put us right now? We know we've done it before. Making do it again. Which is wonderful the ideas? How do we come together and collaborate on this and my personal view is the future of work is no longer a top down mechanism, so we used to be very hierarchical. Start at the top and a trickle down I. think that real true meaningful change innovation is gonNA come. Come from the bottom up in a community type setting so I think people's collective voice is going to be the source of change as stem to future, because I think our sub-conscious going to connect our conscious. We're GONNA see that there's a path lowered well amen to that because that's really where I'm at, you mentioned you know the things that happened that created the workforce of the twentieth century and. I think I mentioned to you that my grandfather emigrated to this country from Ukraine in nineteen, thirteen with lintas pockets big was very very hard worker. He had pushcart, and the move to New Haven Connecticut, and then he opened a dry goods store. Well, the point of this all is that he just was focused. You weren't really hard, and then he met my grandmother and. And she worked really hard and twenty five years from his arrival, so in nineteen thirty eight, this guy who arrived basically penniless in the United States twenty five years later was a successful business owner, during the depression built a custom house for my grandmother and him, and my dad, and my aunt to live in, and then he sent on to Wellesley and exclusive college. This is the American dream literally. It was upward mobility and he was like a rocket ship. I mean I'm just astounded that. In twenty five years, he went from nothing to lavish circumstances. The American dream now is not that and I think the things that you are working to address deal with a much different set of circumstances. People end up. In the workforce already encumbered with debt. Usually student loans may be revolving. Credit loans credit cards. As the Pew Research Group had indicated. The American dream is no longer about upward mobility as much as it is about economic stability, do I have the financial means to weather some big event some big tremor. My spouse gets hurt and my health insurance isn't enough to cover it now. My spouse is out of work. How mega cover my monthly cash flow needs of a flood in the basement trigger? You know most Americans don't have the means to withstand trimmer in their lives and I think the American dream now is about economic stability, but it's also about much more. What do you think it is now about denise? That in two ways. I think that you know the idea. The American dream. It's such an attractive I. Mean I myself am also product American dream having moved Marland to the US and been able to achieve things being in the back of hard work. Because that's what the American dream was. You know it was the currency of currency of economics. Currency been able to have opportunity to put in hard work and receive values. You could give your feed your family and create a source of stability. And diverse American dream worked for so long and create America's such a prosperous nation, because there's a lot of equality involved meaning. We were all dealing with the scene. We seem variables to work with. Nobody was more nobody was less. You were dealt. Cards and made of it, which made of it as a lot of quality evolved, and that's how we're able to nation to extend spare rise most of the nation, but today's interesting I honestly think that there is a huge I think. Our culture of consumerism plays a significant role in where we are. Today is the idea that the value that I have internally in the value I feel which oftentimes has come from work, because if we step back working simply a paycheck, it's source identity right? To source of pride myself, expression legacy to my children and provision in huge, the of work is so significant to the being of the person we beyond a paycheck think we cross lines culturally in this consumerism culture that we live in. We consume consume consume consume that it fills. A void art provides a sense of value and I. Think we just through nature. We tend to put ourselves in difficult financial positions, which makes it because nothing's changed right, if works till the currency of economic value, why are we so much harder off today and wire on the precipice of could be Nesta full door, or you're saying personal. You know mass in financial implosion. If one thing goes wrong in your life I had we get there? I think we got there through this consumers and culture that allowed us to cross wires. What's really a value in your day to day life and that's really hard, because it's saturation media everywhere you turn. This pre faces pretty bodies doing pretty things. Schmead is not going to help. It's been a hindrance in that way so I think he's departure. From the BBC Value System that we've had led us to perse these positions not out of. ill-intended bedwell out of course but trend. So what you've described as very unhelpful, the very thing that made the American dream what it was was upward mobility, but also upward reward, a second car vacations, and then my age cohort, just buying stuff all the time stuff we didn't need so now we're at a point where again as Pew mentions two thirds of us are to some degree, disengaged or unhappy, doing something meaningless at work, so the question we posed in this episode is a provocative one as a result and we ask can work. Make you healthy, so my question to you is. How can we make work healthy? Well I look of questions that gives out that brings out some great conversation and ideas, and I thought about this question a lot the last couple of days and a true belief, and I guess the reason why I've got a dry for sway and the things that we work on is I truly believe that work as A. Is the purest way, and perhaps the only way to think about actually discovering health. That's how significant I think it is. Okay, but just knocked me off my pegues. found. Out. When you lie! So! My theory is that there's four parts the being of your mental, your emotional, your physical, and your spiritual on their quadrants, and together they come together to meet the person. And work as a medium because it's what we do I work doesn't necessarily mean you may not get paid for work. It could be homework. Be House where it could be a hobby. You're working at a hobby predominantly volume and a lot of time and work through to get paid for. It's all work what we do. What I was struck by. If you've taken physicals and example, we just did a big piece of market research sway in UN trying to uncover the real problem that people had and desire solutions, way solve that problem and one of the things that we uncovered is that people are so entrenched in their perspective on work, and how they approach that they will be the first thing they're gonNA forego. Forego to spend an extra couple of hours in the office on a commute, it's going to be working out and that might seem kind of quite trivial like maybe your class or run, but over time as a trend, and that's a trend towards physical health, people are foregoing. Their physical health were knocking out one quadrant here because my perspective is I, must spend more time on facetime at the. The office or putting up news media, fires or low valued tasks, because that super important and their forego the working out component when the reality is, your physical health is a source of energy, and it's a sort it's a source connects. The quashes all connect, and if went out of bounds off balance, so what if you were to work flexibly an integrate some kind of a workout routine maintenance. Maintenance once a week or a couple times a week you will earn the energy back tenfold over that will make you way more productive in the work in the value you do Penin that's the difference between energy and time we often think about it can be in the office twelve hours a day. But what if you work for eight hours a day? You much more productive and successful. But that's your perspective on work right and that's ultimately in that one. Krajicek how it absolutely fundamentally affects everything that you do just by prioritizing the physical aspect working out, and how does it relate to your energy levels, and how you approach everything that's one side of it, and the other side is the emotional side, the other qualities your emotions. How do you feel about the? How do you fit in your life? And how do you see things and again go back to work three hours on a commute three hours? You could spending with your family members. Or doing a hobby or something that adds value to you outside of your nine to five job. And again that's a source of energy, which is a source of balance which meaning. And then what does that do? It comes back to you and it electrifies you a lousy way more productive in your work life spirituality is the same thing that looks different every person and mentally it's the same thing what you could be stressed and freaked out. or You could produce in a balanced way so to wrap it up what I would describe this as we talk about its way is that there's three things in the equation of war is the worker it's you I is the work being done in the workplace where the war cabins. The workplace and the work being done there inanimate. They don't live in the brutal breathe. They don't make decisions. They're things that we choose to move around to create value so the only thing that you had there is the worker I'm a person on the being a body and way interact with work and the work being done the workplace to my perspective. So to sum that up in my crease, wait I. Look at this your perspective. You own it your filter how you approach work and totally under your purview. 'cause your personal filter. And, if you look at that filter and see what's in there and take control and responsibility for it, you absolutely. Think about how you approach work in a way that brings you health in many many ways so for me for those reasons is the purest medium and four cheating, health and life should absolutely make you healthier. I WANNA. Go back to something that you said earlier because we talked about how we kinda mechanized work, one of the aspects of the workforce that we created in the in the United States in the early twentieth century, was the idea of the or used to be the sixty hour week, and then it became the fifty, and then the forty hour work week in the forty hour workweek was sort of the standard you had put in time. A lot of people got paid hourly, but then that same paradigm a paradigm, but that same model affected people who are non exempt. Who in salaries. As a result people like me in the advertising business. When I was in my late twenties, early thirties was to work more fifty hour weeks sixty hour week some weeks. I put an eighty because I felt like that's what my worth was. About was squeezing out as much energy, inasmuch, creative benefit as I possibly could well guess what it made me sick. It made me physically ill. I lived at the chiropractors office for about a four year period. Because we're. Did that stress go. It went to the lowest part of my body, my Sacra ilyaronoff joint and when that flared up, I couldn't walk. I think you're onto something here and I think one aspect of the empowerment. That's going to happen. Is We're GONNA blow up this forty hour workweek so that we get rewarded for the output of our work and not the hours behind the output of our work. What do you think of that? I think that you really hit on something very important there, which is the idea that your body? It's your greatest signaling system. You know it is literally your greatest singles. Are you sleeping? Well, you eating well. You resting. Ailments, your body is I think we. We tend not to think about it, or we tend to discard it as the other, but paying attention to your body in the way that you just described is it is the number one source for information and data on how you're doing in life is to pay attention to your body. That's how significant it goes back to out. quadrant the fiscal side, and why we must put in you put, you'll get out what you could end. That's why so significant. the forty hour workweek. I gotTa tell you something. We see up the forty hour work week. I don't think I you could have somebody working sixty hours a week. That is far more. Happier and balanced and found meaning versus someone forty hours a week meaning. I don't think it's the number of hours that you put in the the qualifier where the variable to look at. It is. For us, I think it's about the principle of choice meaning reflecting back on our idea research. Should we just did? There was nobody that we spoke to sway that, said men the forty hour workweek. If I could treat it for twenty I would be, it would solve all my problems or I don't WanNa work for our forty hours. I want to work eighteen. Not One person said that to us what we heard from the research that we did is that people are like they love their jobs the low what they're doing. But they're suffering from him. Absolutely overworked because of working in a box of choice. The majority of people like man, if I could get up in the morning, get a couple of hours in early. Maybe take kids to school. Get back into work. Maybe take a break in the afternoon. Jump on at night. That would be ideal for me, so I want to work less. I think people just want to work on their terms. Have some semblance waste because that's if we're gonNA unlocking potential s what we have to Dennis. We mean by flexibility. Where's the other? Is that lever for each individual person, so people want? People are hard workers. They want in. They want. They want skin in the game. They want to get something out. They want to work. They find the value in, but working in a box longer fits because it's not the human experience and that's we're trying to evolve towards. My good friends Mike Hayes and morally win a Grad who write a lot about millennials in the United States, but in politics and in the work world have said that millennials are leading the way so that. Work becomes something you do during the day it's not the day and I love that because in my I I'm a late baby boomer and this idea was pretty much chain to your work from the time you arrive to the time you left. What happens if your kid who you adore is playing soccer, and you want to be present in your child's life, and you can't because you're in a meeting at a certain point. I think the idea of empowering people as you said from the bottom up to manage how they get their work done in a way that still allows them to balance out all the other parts of that mentally emotionally spiritually and physically. Everything's in tune and if you do that. You got somebody who's going to be loyal to you. Who's going to increase your lifetime investment of your higher of that person? As opposed to knowing that if you don't do anything, they're going to grow resentful and start looking for a new job in eighteen months. That is one hundred percent the case, so that is what we consider the evolvement of the mindset. Towards you know, we want to humanize work I. Think we all want. We all want to be human at work. He's in one of our big things at sways your one Parson living one life, you can put on a suit, and you can only show up as part of work, but you're never going to be one person working person at home or anywhere else you only one person one person one life Meka count. And too often want to humanize way. People approach work that we can all feel like that because feeling that is internally when you feel your fire on all cylinders. The ultimate objective. I will tell you are interesting things. My research that Lens Conversation. This point of the conversation is that to evolve, even though we all know, we want to get there, and it's not just a moral issue or a societal issue to like ease family problems that have more present their lives I mean the economy is calling for like the this EC two economy are calling for people have your skills, which is, that's why the Amazons of the world and Walmart the world putting aside like almost billion dollars to retrieve their people, because if he they're going to be outdated in three to five years in relation to technologies, influencing people the. The C. Suites on management are asking people to become more agile and flexible and an skill, but the reality is. It's all on paper and saw talk the talk, but we have to actually change in their to change that had made. There's the change in the company signs in the worker side Guinea good example, both which is currently a barrier to the evolution of work on the company side is the fact that companies will talk a big talk and a big big game, because in PR perspective, it's amazing rates looks good, they're. They're hitting our social goals. They're tracking millennials. Their social media likes her up, but behind closed doors. Companies are putting out the fires that get them to their next court. Earnings revenue target. We are now we as a country me at the decision the seventies when we opened up the idea financialisation where the government rim bad economic way the got the banks to come in to ease up the finances and prosperity grew as an income inequality, which could be a whole `nother show, but the reality is that companies good Pizza Philo. People just like you and I right. They're all good people intentions the behold. Behold into the quarterly earnings number, which is a couple of guys in pinstripes, suits sitting in a room that set a number each quarter and accompanies rush to meet it at the expense of advancing social goals are like Corbu like we're talking about here, so there is a disconnect happen between what a company says they WANNA. Do and what you true. They WANNA. Do to allow people to find meaning and purpose work. is about how help companies bridge that gap, but then on the other side accompanied person, the worker side we want for free to. We're afraid because people are influenced by the way the group, so one of the things we talk about we want to help. People work smarter not harder. Very, interesting capable what you just said that that that fear comes out of working working harder, not smarter. Because we have in our minds, the evolution of you know the last several generations. Just like your. Your grandfather came over e were tortured, he hustled, and he worked hard, and he built personal success for himself and in our psyche, maybe not as not as much the millennial generation, but all the generations. If you're not working hard, are you working at all right? And that is just an outdated notion. Denise Bruder this has been fun and we are going to have you back. You are alike my sister from another mother. We have so much. Symbiosis in our thought, leadership is going to be a pleasure to work with you and get you back on and talk about other aspects of creating a future of work around meaningful were. Thank you so much for being on the type Antique. Against? O.! Links to sway workplaces. Social media are provided in. The show notes for this episode at Dan Smolin Dot Com. Please join us again for more. Stories from people who walked the tightrope to seek and do meaningful work you can subscribe to us where he gets your podcasts or listen to current and past episodes on our website at the end Smolin Dot Com I'm Dan smolen and this is the tight rope podcast together. Let's walk a tight to find and do meaningful work for the future of work is meaningful work and do remember this our best days lie ahead. Let's connect again next week. Stay healthy and socially distant everyone.