20 Episode results for "Decolonisation"
A Rainbow of Things
"The buck sexton podcast. We are on defense big time and a lot of us got used to be in on political offense for a few years but the pendulum has swung far to the other side. Now this is not a cause for despair. It's just a cause for looking at the reality and preparing for it and understanding who you trust your alongside and how we move forward together the buck sexton podcast. Get it for free. Daily on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you find your podcasts. The question is ordering the previous question on the resolution. Those in favor say aye does oppose no. Oh an opinion of the chair. The ayes habit. Mr speaker on that i would request the as a nays. Pursuant to section three s of house resolution eight yeas and nays are ordered members will record their votes by electron device. So what are they. I believe that is like a rules. Okay now during. Yeah so now. They're getting the vote on ordering the previous question. I don't have any idea what that means. you know. Even though i was the parliamentarian of my age group. I do not know what they're doing right now But that's not the official vote and it's a pretty simple. I don't have the exact words but it's a pretty simple impeachment documents. It's not complex. The president is accused of inciting. Yes four pages. I guess often those rules votes are turn out to be the vote because anybody who wants to do a certain action will vote for the rule that lets it happen and those against against the rule number three in the house liz. Cheney came out yesterday and said that she is in favor of impeaching the president. A little of what she said much more will become clear in the coming days and weeks. But will we know now is enough. Cheney said the president of the united states summoned this mob assembled the mob and lit the flame of this attack. everything that followed was his doing. None of this would have happened without the president. She says she's yes. Vote mitch mcconnell. Not on the record but not denying the reports that he has said behind the scenes he believes the president committed an impeachable offense how that will translate into how he handles the senate. I don't know. I see both parties. Just fracturing right in front of our eyes You know and it goes differently when you're in power and when you're out of power but there's absolutely a faction of people who are pretty loyal republican voters who are split now We have to political parties desperately trying to pretend they aren't four political parties at least for now because the the woke woke chavez they got nothing to do with nancy pelosi and and mansion from west. Virginia any moderates really joe biden. He's got nothing to do with the woke. Chavez tried to pretend to to get elected but and then on the republican side obviously the division between the super duper trump loyalist to believe everything he said and think dick chair or at least chain. Rather as a you know a swamp creature and a rhino. Or whatever i don't know how do you hold it together. I don't know that she should how about. We cancelled both political parties. Close all offices the rest of it and then just start up some more. I wish so the vote at some point today. And we'll bring that to you if it happens while we're on the air but that it's not in question. It's there's no drama. The drama is what happens with the senate. And that can't start before tuesday the day before joe biden becomes president so i don't know we'll see in covert news jack. The bbc's staff will wear electronic devices to enforce social distancing the gadget which resembles a pager will buzz if the where it gets too close to someone else. And it doesn't record personal data at says or get you in trouble or anything but you will wear a buzzer. If you get too close to any other human being it will go off. I thought i had heard in the united states or is going to be some sort of app week at all. Have and then our photo phone would ping if we're getting close to somebody who tested positive but apparently that had never came together or not enough people signed up for it or something. Because i haven't heard anything about it. Well an apple tried to launch an app. That will warn you if you came in contact with somebody with david but it's all like the opt in and then reporting in that you have the in the state of california cornea. According to a road sign. I drove past has some sort of program to do the same. I'm in the media. I've never heard of it and honestly i didn't give it another thought until right now so nice program so believable. How is your state doing in getting the vaccine out The state i live in california's finishing forty fourth as they have gotten out twenty four percent of the vaccine that they have so they're basing this off of how much they have distribute not based off people or population. Okay how much you got this much vaccine. How much have you gotten out. California's got now twenty four percent. Which makes them forty fourth on the list out of fifty states. That's horrible as the state with the most financial capability of dealing with it but And if you merely setup one center in each of the five biggest cities in california you could give it all out by the end of tomorrow. You certainly. you almost have to unless i'm missing. You almost have to say this is based on the competence of your state's government. Because i'm not seeing a write. A red blue divide. I'm not seeing a big small divide necessarily s- well you'd think a lack of population density low density. Well texas a good excuse. Texas's ninth for instance second biggest state in the country. Right there ninth. They've gotten out almost half of their vaccine. Well it's just a question of competence Right but then you've got other blue states that are up. High connecticut is third at sixty percent There are tiny state. Texas giant state tennessee's pretty highly populated state Fifty one percent. let's get. let's go to the dea. Dfl who are the worst. Arkansas has gotten out fourteen percent georgia. Seventeen count up alabama now road. There's three your southern states right there but then it's hawaii. A blue state has nothing to do with the south. It's a serious a little islands. Hawaii was not part of the confederacy had been interesting if they had been but they were not there. Twenty three percent. And then you jump to virginia then idaho then it's california ladies and gentlemen at forty four thousand fifty. She's just amazing. Why that is a weird mix a states you got high taxing at low tax red blue huge population centers much more disparate Population clusters think. It might just come down to the competence of your government. I i'd be interested to hear what idaho and think of that. 'cause i know we have lots of folks listening. And then the great state of idaho mailbag at armstrong and getty dot com if you wanna email mailbag armstrong and getty dot com or you can text for one five two nine five. Kfc by the way number. One was north dakota seventy five percent of their vaccine. They've gotten out to the people. Now that's a did they get ten doses sparsely populated state. They were absolutely getting swamped with corona virus. I mean it was south. Dakota north dakota had some of the highest cases of hospitalizations and deaths in the entire world. Yep super crazy late getting to them than it was terrible. I don't know. I don't know i don't know what you conclude from this other than maybe the conclusion is. Your government matters. The competence of your government matters part of me wonders. Because i want to be fair about this. Even though i consider the government of california to be utterly incompetent the happens to be where i live and and The idea that anybody who's pro recall is a white nationalist or an anti vaccine or was storming. the capital is a few of the utterly just morally bankrupt. Politicians suggested it's ridiculous. Anyway no matter the size of your state. Oh or the or any of the factors we mentioned if you did as i joked get ten doses you're going to have a hell of a lot higher percentage than if you got one hundred thousand right but then what about texas. Well tha yeah. I'd have to know how many doses they got it. Yes so so. California got more doses than the average state. Which would lower your numbers should. Yeah well Perla hundred per one hundred thousand residents so it's based on a per capita so that might explain some of it but You know just looking in california. Here percentage of doses administered forty fourth doses administered per one hundred thousand residents forty first but then they got more of the medicine than all but seventeen other states. City are send twenty percent want to be misled by some freakonomics thing. That i'm missing right but i'm not seeing a riser re a rhyme or reason to who's at the top and the bottom of these lists what's become just spectacular spectacularly obvious to me putting aside frontline healthcare workers okay and if want you get it. You've been dealing incredibly bravely with all of this is You know. I agree with our listeners. Sean who pointed out. According to the cdc and this is the up-to-date data eighty-one percent of cova deaths are people sixty five plus eighty one percent. That's that's really sixteen. Sixteen point five percent of the population so vaccinate that sixteen point five percent of the population which is around fifty four million vaccines one out of seven. And that's right and you'll reduce the deaths and death rate by eighty one percent. I mean roughly. How how can you miss that in. Go into long. Tortuous woke sessions where talk decolonisation have complex. I actually looked into this yesterday. We got an email from our employer saying hey is broadcast broadcast professionals. Here what do you call it Essential workers priority. So you're in group. One c one c s been a roll up my sleeve. See and i looked into it and there are just so many different groups and subgroups and it's complicated and you have to read it twice to comprehend it. Turns out that anybody fifty plus is in group one see anyway so jumping ahead in in the line at all but what it didn't say is just get it out to everybody sixty five plus stead this long tortuous micromanaged centrally planned planned to get it out. Just give it to the old. For god's sake radio professionals obviously president biden of soon to be president biden announced his priority for the the helping businesses and reopening. Sure sounds like racism to me racial discrimination. At the least. I can tell you about that. And other things on the way. Uh the government has declared them essential the armstrong and getty show one of my idols growing up. Was alex travek. You know and and being able to be on jeopardy even though my job out was the greatest choice. They're doing some Some guest hosting spots. And there's going to be released here pretty soon. But i have the opportunity to do one of those that's nfl. Hall of famer aaron rodgers he will be hall of famer One of his idols. Growing up with alex trebek's from jeopardy. That's surprising. I don't think that's probably true. For most of your jocks. You know it was funny listening to that clip us thinking that. Sounds just like aaron rodgers. All right. I didn't see that coming. I i'm sorry. Alex direct died. Seem like a nice enough guy and everything like that and i watch jeopardy enjoyed it but is it is. It is the is it. The cultural worthy of this much attention seems like there's a jeopardy story everyday. Yes yeah. I've maybe it's just a diversion from all the news that covert and the ugly ugly politics mentioned. I got some netflix's news for that. I think it will. You'll perk up for the number of new movies. That are coming out. But i wanna pay this off because i mentioned it I saw britt hume re tweet. A portion of joe biden speech from the other day and brit hume said racial discrimination plain and simple the biden harris presidency which it's always referred to as the biden harris presidency In a way that. I've never heard in my life. Heard constant bush-cheney obama biden that sort of thing with everything you talked about it. You barely knew who the vice president was my entire life because the president elect is oh fitted one foot in the grave. Come on anyway. Biden said yesterday in terms of getting out and he's going to have a giant stimulus package right eighteen controlling dollars. That's going to go out to try to help people and he said you know as any gal can tell you a lot of guys claim to have a giant stimulus back. It's not true. Our priority will be black. Latino asian and native american owned small businesses women owned businesses and finally having equal access to resources needed to reopen rebuild. Said president-elect biden. Wow so after. All the carefully racially doled out goodies. Then we'll just get the business in general even the women are you know fifty eight percent or whatever. It is. College graduates of undergrad degrees similar to the whole vaccine. Roll out being a disaster because of this very sort of thing is that just because of historic injustices that you're gonna give out. You're going to help a black owned business over a white owned business. It's not the fault of that guy. White guy owns the bagel shop. Keep going with identity group politics if you liked to rwanda you'll love american at once again. Is this this is sort of thing. That's going to calm people down. I don't know it's a horrible idea why it's horrible picking winners and losers based on skin color fan freaking tastic anyway hurting them together like animals and demanding that they all vote the same way. Yeah that'll lead to a more perfect union. Know if you know this. Movie theaters are closed. Ain't nobody going to a movie practically anywhere. Netflix's releasing seventy new movies brand new movies in twenty twenty one at least one released every week. I'd say if there are fifty two weeks and seventy movies that would be on math checks out one and a half practically and a lot of big movies big time movies of big time stars like every week. You're gonna a brand new list movie. That will be on netflix. That you can watch it home since you can't go to the theater while go cool is right now. Hey what's the one night in miami. I've seen some ads from that. That looks really cool. I know nothing you seen that zero. it's mohammed ali at the time. Cashes clay at set in nineteen sixty. Three four it's cashes clay malcolm x. Sam cooke the singer in jim brown and jim brown the football player all in miami at the same time the like the night before. Twenty one year old cassius. Clay becomes the heavyweight champion of the world. And it's fictionalized but it looks really good. It's supposed to be quite the work of art. And i'm sorry that's a net flex or is that just a regular movie all see it on netflix. It's a regular well. These are all regular movies. Will i get that. Yeah but it's it's being released on netflixif. Did you say that's actually no. I assume everything's released on the tv movie theater near near meaning to whereas that released i'll i'll take it as watching What i watch always watching Releases on amazon prime cool. I was watching now last night. I rented it the fortieth the direct the final director's cut away. It was meant to be the nine. Our version yeah. Wait a minute. They only added twenty minutes but this is what he said he wanted to be anyway. I'm watching it on my really big tv and four k you hd. and everything. like that. And i thought my own food and drink do i. What am i missing here. Anything maybe a little bit. I mean the giant screens a giant screen. But i've got a pretty big giant screen and it cost me like five hundred dollars. Volley goes expensive well and as an older man especially during an epic movie of that sort. I stay hit the pause button and go relieve myself. The action speaking of technology we're going to talk to the fabulous jeff fowler about the consumer electronics show. Yeah speaking of big. Tv's yeah it's it's very different this year for cova reasons but still pretty interesting. What they're doing and introducing the gadgets to ask him about those dance and robots. He's into technologies. Probably got an opinion on the and robots terrify opinion has ever armstrong and getty armstrong. And getting if you're looking for a new year's resolution that's easy to keep we've got just the one yup result to help protect your identity and personal info with lifelock identity theft protection lifelock alerts you to potential threats to your identity. You could miss certain. Id threats by just monitoring your credit lifelock sees more like your info. That's for sale on the dark web. Yeah if you have a problem. A us-based restoration specialist knows the steps to take to help resolve your case. You know after all more than seventy five percent of identity theft victims who had accounts opened in their name did not find out from their bank or credit card company. Now no one can prevent all identity theft or monitor all transactions at all businesses but lifelock is the new year's resolution. That's not only easy to keep. It'll help keep what's yours yours. This is such a good idea. Save up to twenty five percent off your first year. Just go to lifelock dot com slash armstrong that's lifelock dot com slash armstrong to save twenty five percent off lifelock dot com slash armstrong lifelock dot com slash armstrong the armstrong and getty show so preparing to talk about the consumer electronics. Show which is going on right now. I've come across the The display of smart lipsticks and smart perfumes perfume. The hell and they can talk to your refrigerator and tell you when your eggs are out of your garage door open or something stuff still does not make sense to me jeffrey. Fowler's the technology columnist for the washington post. He writes from san francisco about how to navigate the confusing occasionally. Scary and deeply personal world of tech and jeffrey joins us. Now how are you sir. I am good. You know that smart lipstick and smart garage door goes very well with the smart ass. Just can't well if the shoe fits. So what the consumer electronics show in twenty twenty one. The age cova. What's happening. Well it's a series of never ending zunes. The rest of our life has become at home they actually basically cancelled it. This year used to be that they gather about one hundred and seventy thousand people including a lot of nerds me in vegas for this show and said this year this is gonna be all online So so yeah it's been Zoom streams All times of day and night with companies touting this bad and sort of trying to in many cases response to the pandemic crisis which i think is actually kind of fascinating Deserves deserves a little bit of attention. Even when there are a few other things happening in the news i will. I will admit well that makes me think. Maybe you're leading up to talking about razors new high-tech and ninety five mask that they've got rate razor as i miss this. One razor is in the the This company. I don't know it looks like the same knowing the The computer peripherals company. Oh okay okay okay. Oh yeah. I just hit to this smart masks doping. The world's smartest mask it makes sense that the consumer electronics show they would be Bringing out newer mask they they they They audio process your voice in such a way that you don't aren't muffled protecting right. Oh yes this is the the phone a mask idea that there's a microphone. We've seen all variety of smart masks at cs and these virtual presentation So there's you know the kind of microphone built into that when you're taking that call or your meeting somebody on the street. You don't sound like on there are masters one called that we spent a little more time on the art. Destroy the air pop active. Plus this got the sensor on it that connects of course with your phone unless you know things like How bad the air quality is around you and when you need to replace the filter other kinds of stuff so mask. Culture is definitely kind of trying to follow that. That's smart trend and bring some data to that to the discussion. Do you see these actually being something people. By though i mean will they be cheap enough and around enough and will we be meeting them long enough that they'll they'll actually be a thing. It's super cool looking. I'd love to be walking around the office or in one of these i. I'm personally. I want one. That makes me look bad app. Banners lights And we'll be sending messages and if it's two hundred dollars and i'm only going to be wearing a mask for another couple of months then i probably don't want one. Yeah look Cs is is is a rainbow of thing. Right it's like stuff that that's a dream that will never catch on. It's just like a weird idea. Just things that are you know very practical. And you're gonna wanna buy pretty much as soon as possible so you can see the whole range of because that's why we we continue to pay attention to it every year. It's just that it's you know it's got all those things any other notable trends we should know about so one. I'm personally obsessed with is Is is tech companies trying to figure out how our personal technology can help combat the coronavirus and help bring us back. Bring the economy back. Help bring us back into public. And and one of the the ones that i found super fascinating is this company that makes a product called the bio button. Actually sent me. When i'm wearing right now just to see what it's like. Basically it's a sticker that goes on your chest right above your heart and it's a connected device and what it does is it basically you know when you're in a hospital. And they have all those sensors hooked up to you getting your heart breaking temperature and all that stuff constantly basically recreates that temperature your heart rate and respiration all this kind of stuff but it but it gets constant date on that and then they're going looking through the data and they're saying Is there a sign that this person has kovic and maybe doesn't even realize it so it's kind of an alternative to taking a lot of different. Races maces them well and then says to them Are you allowed to go on that. Cruise ship Are you allowed to go to that. Conference you know. I think you know they they. This product is just out it. Got the the research into actually partly funded by the department of defence which fascinating and they've already got For example some conferences signed up to say like. Hey if you wanna come to the conference where one of these for a week before you come to the conference and during it and it'll be an extra layer of screening and so it raises all kinds of fascinating ideas like first of all. We've never really had that much data about our bodies. I mean yes. Some of us were fitbit's and apple watches. This is a lot more and it's been cleared by the fda so it's actually getting good data So there's that but then there's also like wait a minute. Do we wanna live in a world where you have to literally have your every breath monitor To be able to go to work or go on vacation or on the plane so it definitely shows you know shows us where things are headed and some of the conversations we're going to be happening is ever had a health problem or doctors told him it might be. This knows it can turn into a paranoid wreck pretty easily. So yeah you become stars actually phenomenon when you when you're doing so much surveillance of your body or your sleep or whatnot sleep. Yeah and then. Some people call internet cancer. You know you look at the variety of the things you've got the internet will tell you've got cancer. We're talking to jeffrey fowler about the consumer electronics. Show to the extent that it even exists as your samsung Debuted some new robots that are supposed to help around the house. We're just wondering because we are watching the other day. The boston electric's ix latest robot video. Where they're all dancing. Have you seen that one. Yeah the dog and the horses doing the mashed potato. We can do the twist so our question for you. Because we've asked this question for ourselves do you do you watch that and think it's cute and inspiring or are you terrified. I am more terrified. Yes we also we a terrifying mersal react. Yes one thing that will make you feel better. However is that you know. We've been talking about these robots for a long time and particularly the boston the boston ones and yet nobody's really figured out what to do with him. That company has been bought and sold like seven different organizations in many really investing. Yeah in the time of this This phone call. We've been having here so I just you know it. We'll get scary and they're gonna keep developing technology but nobody's figured out really what to do one thing they can really do. Rip off your arms and beat you with the stopes. Imagine why they would do that. But it's terrifying -nology exists. What else jeff. Anything else in particular that you've witnessed on the endless zoom calls that we ought to know about. You know the thing that. I think most People will care about is if we've learned one thing in the last year that really matters in our technology. It's that you need to have good wifi and really exists without it It's actually been some surveys. That show that americans find it as important as electric city running water as an essential in their lives especially mentioned that when when Because i live in part of the world that's like i live in haiti. No no california Where the electricity gets turned off. It's windy and so are electrically got turned off the other day in the first thing my kids when i get to generator fired up number. One is get the wifi going. Oh yeah oh yeah i. It's it's the main thing. We need electricity for in the modern era. Anyway you were saying totally but a lot of us got routers and boxes from our internet provider. You know like ten years ago and since that time the number of connected devices in our house has like increased by thirty you know. Our neighbors are all using wifi. Basically the tech. We've now can't keep up but there is good news so ask. Cas we saw the first generation of a whole new kind of wifi and it has a really nerdy name. That i'm gonna share. It's wi fi six e so if you have the six e kind of wi fi Basically think of it if your if your internet connection at home as a as kind of a two lane highway right now. It increases it to like an eight lane highway and that is a pretty big deal way. Does that is it. Opens up a new New wireless spectrum that wifi can take advantage of and that's a big deal because that that's That's part of the the wireless airwaves that Your neighbors aren't currently using. It's not competing with other thing. Wow and that means that a lot more stable connections going forward. And i think that's just going to be a huge deal when we all start to get These routers that support it and then also the devices that will support it as well. Those are probably going to start with the ones that really need a good wireless connection mike. You're four k or k televisions or your you know your gaming laptops or tablets or evening. How soon those wi fi router is going to be available to suppose next week. That's the good news There's that will go on sale. We seen a couple of makers. Come out with them now. The first ones that are coming out you. We all know the the game attack. The first ones that are are expensive. And they're not for everyone but i think You know in the in the coming weeks and months. We're going to see a lot more. And basically if i bought a new router in twenty twenty one. I would definitely make sure i saw letter six and e on it. Not just saying okay accent. Well that's good to know. Wow making a no jeffrey fowler. The washington post writes about tech from san francisco probably from texas soon following all the tech companies to the chain area. George and do whatever you want. Jeff fowler's always great to talk. Jeff thanks man. You want to be farther away from boston. So those robots rip off. Your arms can probably run at two hundred miles per hour so sooner staff to keep moving keep moving like it's the what the walking dead so smart. Lipsticks and smart perfumes. Actually read what that was so smart. Perfume is you've got this little container in it's got several sense in it and you can like program for what you want and then it will mix the sense together to give you a unique scent and then menu. You want a different sent for you. Know work than you want for declutter. I don't and then you press your smart perfume than it. Mixes you a different one. I don't know i. I find that most of the stuff. I don't think happen the mask one. The masks look really cool if they would work but again like i said. I don't know how long let me wearing masks and I don't even want to think about it because that brings up the question. Does the thing just keeps mutating and we just always hear this mask. Looks cool though. You got to see a picture of it. What they work in the rain. Though i mean think about if you gotta let through electrocute or had a smart umbrella just just like your smartphone is constantly electrocuting you in the. That's funny. i was at target. Last night is buying a new Alexa for my son because the original lexi got for christmas. A couple years ago won't pair with his new headphones because the technology change too. I just love the fact that you have to replace something that the only thing wrong with it is the new software for that thing doesn't hook up with the planned obsolescence and obsolescence. And so i bought a brand new alexa. Just so i could do that anyway. They they had a variety of like the smart speakers and stuff like that. That sounds so freaking. Good completely waterproof. Br drop proof and waterproof and it sounded great. And i thought man that is so cool. So that's your excuse. For letting jeff bezos into your child's bedroom you'd shoot him on sight if he tried that in person. That's a bad parenting until you wouldn't know how to react to them. So nonsensical i don't even. It's this as stupid as it is unfair. Anyway i got a couple more things that are interesting here and we'll check in where we are with impeachment as they are like voting and stuff on the floor as we speak The armstrong and getty show. I think a lot of republicans at this point. I'm sure that congressman king configure is right that there's some fear someplace but i haven't heard this week what i've heard from fellow. Republicans is that they've had enough and that the presence conduct quite frankly since then has gotten them upset. I mean it is a national disgrace that the flag at the white house is not at half staff for that capitol hill. Police officer kinnock Who gave his life protecting one of our institutions of democracy. That was over the weekend. The flag flying at half staff but chris christie has said that the right the incitement right is an impeachable offense. He would vote for it and He's you know he. I i watched chris christie every sunday on On that. abc show and he defends the president. Pretty much anything he's ever done. We're saying what a ride chris. Christie is had humiliated by the president on the primary stage then standing obediently behind him in that famous shot and becoming a part of the team then humiliated again. Not given a cabinet post then. He defends trump for for years on the talk shows. And now he's these said impeach him But the they're voting right now a bunch of preliminary stuff It is expected to pass. It will pass today the article of impeachment and then it will head to the senate and then then there is some drama because our there seventeen republican votes. I think that's what you need to Actually booed him on office. And could that happen. Well no nobody seems to think it can happen before the twentieth. So you're not putting him out of office. what are you doing. what exactly are you doing. Well preventing them from running again. Mostly i guess according to most constitutional scholars again so i was trying to watch. The proceedings live on fox news. While i was go into the bathroom and This is what happened. I think i think will happen again. That's the audio. The video is master. Control news edge. Please stand by for level to cut him. So i'm standing by for a level to cut in whatever that is an unable to watch live. But i do have some quotes president the republicans both chambers split on supporting the peach moments Let's see so the debate is going on then to procedural votes two of actual debate which will only need a simple majority to pass the measures house rules committee chairman jim mcgovern d mass and i saw evil of the storming of the capital. These are not protestors. These were not patriots. These were traders and they were acting under the orders of donald trump rules. Committee ranking member of tom. Cole's republican from oklahoma. So the house wasn't giving the president enough due process in a snap. Impeachment that will divide us further President biden president-elect. Biden's going to be sworn in. Give it up um and then let's see chad. Pergram fox news points out second time in thirteen months. The house of representatives is trying to impeach the president. The first one was an idiotic joke with. Throw away your credibility and famously as we mentioned earlier today. Liz cheney the house. Gop conference chair. That's the third ranking republican in the house said the president of the united states summoned. The mob assembled the mob and lit the flame of this attack. Everything that followed was his. None of this would have happened without the president. He could have immediately and forcefully intervened to stop the violence he did not. There's never been a greater betrayal by a president of the united states of his office in his oath to the constitution. I will vote to impeach the president well about fifty five percent of the country more or less agrees with her but it's quite small percentage of republicans almost all democrats and a a big majority of independence Believed that he should be impeached. But not that many republican. And i wonder if you ran an experiment where you didn't impeach the president over something that you know most people didn't care about and if you didn't claim all these different things for the last four years and all this happened if maybe you might have more support. Yeah well yeah. Of course they've turned people completely cynical to they're crying. Wolf binding way completely cynical inappropriately. So if you're talking about the media or nancy pelosi word to the wise or in some of these cases the unwise if you're gonna commit a crime in a an area where you know. There are a lot of cameras you are going to get caught they've now arrested camp auschwitz guy. You've probably seen him long. Beard looks to be in his sixties wearing a t shirt that says camp auschwitz with the skull and crossbones got a lot of attention. Last week he was inside the capitol. Rummaging around. well you know. They're a million pictures of. It wasn't hard to figure out who you arnie's now been arrested. Nice fifty six second. Roughly my age. Is that what i look like. God but Yeah that should be a lesson to people right there. You are going to be arrested if you go into some place where there's cameras freaking everywhere. They will find you. They've they've arrested. You know horns on his head loincloth guy and auschwitz guy left. Turn guy and everybody that there. There is lots of pictures. Floating around main characters from the show have been arrested. Zip tie number one. Sit tight guy to write all arrested. Many more to come according to the f. b. is one of the widest ranging investigations. They've ever done. I can't wait to find out to see how many of those people had planned on this. They were going to go in and they had something to do. And it was part of a coordinated effort versus the people that were just You know kind of along for the ride and the doors were opened and they went in might be two completely different crowds. Well yeah. They're pleading that right now. I'm sure are strong. And getty the buck sexton podcast. We're on defense. Big time and a lot of us got used to be in on political offense for a few years but the pendulum has swung the other side now. This is not a cause for despair. It's just a cause for looking at the reality and preparing for it and understanding who you trust who you're alongside and how we move forward together. The buck sexton podcast. Get it for free. Daily on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you find your podcasts.
227: The State of Puerto Rico's Independence Movement
"Lows knows. You're the pro who does it right to find more ways to save because your business depends on it. We do it. Right. Sue with savings every day, plus even more deals during our spring black Friday sale, get forty dollars off five gallon buckets of select paint and stains via lows gift card rebate by three or more pretty brushes and get fifteen percent instant savings and get up to thirty five percents off select appliance special values do it right for less. Start with Lowes. Painted stay offer bell through four ten. Pretty an appliance offers. Valid three or four seventeen exclusions apply. See store for details. US only. Rebels radio Tino robos radio. I hear lethal seventy seven it is Sunday, April twenty first two thousand and nineteen. You know, I I grew up Roman Catholic. That's all I'm going to say happy. Stor happy everybody. Listen, I have been wanting one of the things that I've been thinking about the last couple of months following the political situation and put the Rico and also. Post. Hurricane Maria is what is up with the nationalist the independence movement in Puerto Rico? And I wanted to get someone on who wasn't of voice that you would normally here. I wanted to actually talk to actual younger people who are creating their own voices down and put the Rico, and I'm super excited to have under this Gonzales bed, the CEA of Harare, DO, nip. And then CEA live from San Juan unrest, man. What's up high? Julio. Thank you for having me. It's really a pleasure to be here to talk about something that I there's really important to me to an audience that doesn't really get to hear it from our from, you know, from my point of view. So thank you very much for for having been. Thank you for reaching out to us because as you know, this is near and dear to my heart Urinetown one, you know, and I've been covering as a Puerto Rican. Journalists this is sort of the elephant elephant. Day when I always keep in writing about for years. So I have so many questions, but can you just begin to tell me until listeners who might not even? I think people I think people in the United States, at least on the American left kind to know about the independence movement, the nationalist movement Origo, but I think they're kind of stuck in the sixties and the seventies in the fifties. And don't really know what's going on. And they just kind of just associate with the, you know, the green party little bit there. But the, and they don't, and they see that as a party, and that sort of house simplistic, it is so to get give some context what is you know. What does it mean to be someone who promotes independence in Puerto Rico these days? So it's very important to us to understand that we come from very long history of people that have fogged for the decolonisation of Puerto Rico and for its independence, even before the United States invaded Puerto Rico in eighteen ninety eight right? So basically in the nineteenth century, you already had a pro independence movement very much like it. Happened in any other Latin American nations, but when the Spanish American war started right along with Cuba in other. Territories. We were you know, pretty much seated or or sold to the to the United States with our without our participation, right? And since then there have been very strong movements for independence for thirty at the beginning of the century. Perhaps it was much stronger of you could say that for for the first fifty year or sixty years of the twentieth century, the pro-independence movement was probably majoritarian, but there were no Platt recites there. I mean, for example, the Partido O'neil which was pretty much the strongest party at the beginning of the century had independence as one of its points in the agenda later, the liberal party is well, of course, the nationalist party in the nineteen thirties of abusive campus, which may be may have been the the the biggest pro-independence figured that. We had at the time and later even the Democratic Party, which later, you know, betrayed us and became the pro comma wealth. Most the biggest supporter started sending dependence party end. Then of course, he Puerto Rican independence party that has done the job for over for more than seventy years on interrupted -ly, you know, fighting for independence for three go. And what ended that doesn't take into account other groups that have also helped, you know, our costs whether peaceful way or by taking up arms in more tumultuous sixties and seventies. Right. But the the most important thing about, you know, about our our people is just our understanding that thirty of different nation in the in the twenty first century colonialism, whether you call it, you know, a non unincorporated territory or just colony which is what it is. Politically is is just simply wrong, it is descend follow international law, and it's basically on democrat right to have more than three hundred more than. I'm sorry. Almost four million able. Who are a different nation, and who don't vote who don't get to take up participating the political processes of the federal government, which they have to obey. Right. So we have no we have no vote for the president or congress people. But yet we have to obey every love every statutes passed by congress in every regulation right executive, but we also have more important to us. We don't have any representation or international institutions either. So that's pretty much why we fight against there's also the other side, right? And I couldn't have this conversation without sort of how the independence movement has been criminalized in a lot of ways in Bordeaux trickle, can you just speak a little bit more to that? Because I maybe I'm not I'm not trying to romanticize this. I mean, I come from a family people can just let me up I don't really give it should anymore. But you know, my my migrate uncle. Hosa medial inside his was one of the top poets would would have been the head of the UP of the university of Puerto Rico. But was a strong independence guy. In was like, you're not it's not going to happen in the fifties. So. You know, my family is a typical I think is a typical Puerto Rican family. There's a mix of a lot of people in a lot of ways. But can where did it become where did become criminal to be in a nationalist? When did that happen? It's a very very good question. So. When I say, probably in the thirties, you know, with the you could you could think about Gandhi in India or the Irish or, you know, in with the Puerto Rican nationalist party of better. I'd be so Campos. They they pretty much. You know, said I mean, we can just we can have this colonialism anymore in the he advocated the Puerto Rican national nationalist party for you know, for the armed struggle. Even though it participated in any elections at one point, right? So now with that and especially in the forties right before the Commonwealth west creator. And when the Popular Democratic Party changed its position from independence to whatever they adopted later, right? The the the oppression around. I'm not sure what the word is in English. Right. But the oppression gut really strong, especially when when governors governors until the nineteen forty eight even before the Colorado were imposed just like most of the legislators here were imposed by the by the by the president of the United States. So we had for example, Brenton wind ship and other military actual military governors here that did a lot of a lot of breath things. Put in mildly like the my second. My secondhand Obea which really directed specifically doors e Puerto Rican independence movement, right? So when when the Commonwealth all these process started before after you could say after the second World War and the thing about decolonization was really getting stronger. Right. And everybody starts talking about this. Komo weather steadily would associate which the independence movement. Understood was a falsity right something that would not finish the Puerto Rico's colonial status. Then the the mill you could say that the militancy got stronger end what we call here, the, prevail. Right. Which was a sort of how do you? How would you put it in English? It was prevailing surveillance. A I mean, my family had I- family members who had got bit those. I'm sure you did. I'm sure there's any one of those stories that if you actually sat down I would say like, you know, ten Puerto Ricans from the island. I would I would guarantee you seven eight maybe nine of them would say like, you know, my family member one of them had one. I mean, it was it was it was it was for Valence. It was and we had an episode regard. You know to talk about the history of the company. So it was basically Colin Coen pro, you know, the what what the FBI started their against left-wing groups and the later the civil rights activists and pretty much everybody did descent all it happened in hit us very strong here strongly here in Puerto Rico on it happened before. Yeah. That's that's which proves my point. Is that anything the federal government of the United States wants to do to other groups? They seem to be doing it to put a Ricans before anybody else. Right. It's the loud where the. Experiment. It has been that way. And for example, you could think Wendy Puerto Rican independence party in the late eighties. Pretty much fire the complaint and everything all this came out in public which was everybody more about this. But it wasn't. It wasn't official until we made those to those actions to make it visible. So we found out that this had been officially going on from nineteen forty eight up until the late eighties. Right. So if you fought for independence in Enron. I'm not talking about any armed struggle, or whatever, you just advocated for independence almost every branch of the government about especially the the attorney general's office here, and the police would have your file, and they would say, for example. So Julio today three attended a rally in favor of independence. So all that was and that was used when you apply for law school, for example, when you try to get a job and for every and they also, of course, infiltrated people are and. Internal fights against each other. That were not true just to divide dividing conquer. So that along with you know, many other things that gives you a feeling of widening this movement was equated with you know, from TV in why people were afraid and we have to. I mean, we have to be honest with you know, when you talk about armed struggle. And you know, we talk about the the attack on the US capital, which, you know, people when you look at the US news coverage at the time when that happened. And when you see new I'd say more radical versions of the independence movement that were coming from, you know, from the Diaz for coming from places like Chicago, New York, FA L N. I mean there was you know, if you know at the time, I think like in the sixties in the seventies. I actually think independence the word independence like the movement. Whether it was violent or nonviolent was actually still part of the national. Dialogue in the United States. Would you agree with? I'm was it. Because of the you know what I'm saying. I I think it was it was something that people were still aware of or am I being too simplistic, you're talking about the people were aware or thought of it as a possibility for Puerto Rico the independence who me? No, no, I'm talking about the American public. So you know, when you have FALN and people, you know, the nationalist movement. God violent, you know, we we have to be. And I think Americans I'm talking about Americans on the American left or would would at least. I mean, it was something that it was a political act writer. I mean, even some people would call it one person's political freedom. Fighter is another person's terrorists. Yeah. Def hobby ob-, obviously, someone put thought he goes listening to this right now and calling me a communist I'm trying to look at this early. But I guess the point that I'm saying is that there still was a time in the seventies in the eighties were independence as a solution was still being taking somewhat seriously. I mean, it was still very viable. I. I would agree. So what I would say about that is that. Well, first of all it was a time of right? You had a lot of groups stake in different actions both left and right, for example, the the actual terrorist actions that were that happening put thirty going political terms actually came from the Cuban, right? Right. So so, and so there's there was a lot of combusted you might say before we get into. I think that's one detail that very few people in in the United States understand, you know. You know, put the recall is very I would say, it's very socially conservative. Right. Yeah. But I also think Cuban exile community after the revolution in Cuba. And I grew up I grew up in the in the late. You know, I was born in nineteen sixty nine in Puerto Rico. So I grew up in the seventies and eighties Puerto Rico, and I saw shift and. You have to. I mean, I think we would be dishonest with ourselves if we didn't think that. The Cuban exile community in Puerto Rico played a part in trying to say like, you know, we don't want another Cuba here. Right. I mean, or is that no, I definitely agree. And that's that's what I wanted to say that because of because of the American government sent the mindset of the people end the Cold War, right? So independent these starting birth. Rico was actually equated by people or by non-independent these with communism. So we we dealt with discrimination of the of the government and of the majority of the people not only because of our but owing their peninsula views. But also because they equated us to Cuba and communism, which even even though you there, I will say that the left and the independent movement input Rico have gone, you could say that they have gone mostly in the ordinary sense hand in hand. But they're not, you know, they don't have to be the same thing. And of course, you could conceive a conservative pro-independence decent such. But because they have you know, the independence movement has always been pretty much the. The left import Rico. We took the you could say a double punch, right? A one too. So it was it was end during the Cold War. You will see that even though one might say or it was probably true. Right. That there were a lot more in pro independence Puerto Ricans. I don't know thirty fifty years ago, maybe because of many reasons you will see you could say that it was almost impossible to have a Puerto Rican independence from the American government's point of view on independent but Rico because we were just simply to it a counter Cuba. Right. We were just they had to had a colony there a jurisdiction that they treated us as and as I say, you know, you take into account what the naval bases. But I also think the point the flip side of that. And I think we I think the independence movement of the history the independence movement thirty needs to acknowledge this is that the influence from from Havana, you know, I I remember reading I mean, I remember growing up and reading. You know, I. He would read what the would cash would say. And it was always like end up. You know, it was it was almost like we became a battle of the Cold War. And then even the Cuban left like the Castro government would would be probably one of the strongest supporters of Caribbean independence. But you're I think you're right. I think because in the end Puerto Rico was there was this fear of the I remember this, man. I remember seeing. Maybe is he's childhood memories as a teenager. But just seeing people saying we will never be a Vaga. And why would we want to be independent? So do you think that's where the shift was like in the eighties and the night? Like, do you think? That's when it was really starting to you could. Yeah, it very well could be. But what is just when the comma wolf was created, right? You had you had you had a great figure like this just my beating the Popular Democratic Party. And that that came about, you know, orchestrated of course, nineteen fifty two with the big exodus of Puerto Rican people to the US, especially New York something that we have we had not seen until pretty much right now. So we had the Commonwealth did have a I would say better month or melt, I'm rattle in the economic sense of the so all that gave a sort of a I don't know an oral. But we have to understand that when it was created a lot of national leaders were incarcerated. Because of the revolution that the attempts of the revolution the nineteen fifty. But also, the whole independence movement was like, you said criminalize, and for example, the prosecutors here in those cases against the nationalist, the nationalist actually, use the Puerto Rican flag as evidence of the insurrection right of people that were trying to the of the uprising it was only after that degration of the call of the official government of leaving your mighty actually adopted that very same flag so into fifties. When all these happens, a lot of them might have left because they didn't want to be here with under the KOMO of the, but also because they, you know, there was there were three of persecution against a pro-independence these were afraid of their lives and others because maybe they were looking for better options in that Desa reality, right? They went because they just wanted better options for their families. So let me really try to put this to crystal. I guess I didn't think there's simplification of the independence movement. I do think it's very easy to scream, you know, how not got got. That's not who in our very easy. I mean, you you have to admit that there's this sort of like acceptance right within the status machine of the last twenty thirty years that at least when it comes to the the, you know, the Puerto Rican independence party that there's this. There's this toss away line. It's like, no one. No, one cares about independence like the plebiscite. No, one cares about that. They're not relevant. We don't want to be the next Cuba and s simplistic as it sounds. It's become sort of the clarion. Call also with places, you know, Whitney when you look at the pro statehood movement, and you look at that the leaders there, even though, you know, the current governor is a democrat or sort of century. You know, there's a history of more right wing anti-independence rhetoric from from the stated party, and there's also this. I don't know. Anyone that defends the colonial is I guess I'll call them the people that defend the colony what else do you want to call them? Yeah. Goes right now, it's difficult to find him even even people who outright saying that they support the Commonwealth as it is they're they're, of course, they don't wanna make any changes. But even then no really express it that way before. And I think it's important. You know, I think it's like it's like the easy lazy choice, but LA it's like it's like if you have a LA in. It's like, well, let's not really independent, but I still like Mike connection to the US. So I'm gonna choose the safe. I'm gonna choose the the status quo. So it gets the big question for me like since hurricane, and I know you guys are doing are. They ended up in the Bannon Seon, you're talking, and I know you're talking about this topic. And you're trying to get it more attention. In the sense of like the independence movement, not being relevant in Puerto Rican national politics right now, how is that changing? It is it changing. Are you challenging it? Our people challenging it. Again. There are we are we trying to turn it upside down. I'm just really curious about this question. All right. Thank you. Thank you for the question. That's actually, that's one of the main reasons I would say we created linked up in San where we want to talk about this issues 'cause I'm going to try to give you the, you know, the most honest answer, I can give you a military in the Puerto Rican. Yeah. Enter and I probably militating the Puerto Rican independence party, which of course, we have been there for the past seventy years, but minority -tarian you don't minority party. That's that's the truth. But honestly from for decades. Now, only only the Puerto Rican independence movement talked about three quarters a colony and denounced colonialism, not even the pro annexation forces which were really small in comparison to the Commonwealth forces. Right. But have been being forced throughout the years. They didn't really talk about the port thirty costs Coney, listen and even even denouncing such treatment. They would tell you what's accusing the great, you know, United States of something an-, Anna chronicity thing. So they didn't use those terms. But with time, and I will say that it's a huge victory of the independence movement. Even though that might not you might not see it electorally. Right. But in the from two thousand sixteen on with even before the money the here came, but with the with the case of Sanchez by it, which finally the supreme court of the United States. You know might clear what we always said that put three collect sovereignty separate from the United States enhance. It was what we exclusively always said. An unincorporated territory, and your listeners might think or less the most obvious thing in the world. How could you even say that it's something credit? You know, something new, but in breath Rica, almost sadly that was our discussion every single year for sixty years. But here's this is where my son, and you know, and obviously the fiscal control like there's so many factors. But I think that point about that case makes it because one of the biggest things that you appear back when you're here in the states is this. Ocean. Now of like, whoa, Puerto Ricans are part of the United States or Puerto Ricans are ericans. It's more like Puerto Ricans belong to the United States. I wouldn't say that there are necessarily a part of the unites. It's and that type of conversation is just happening saying the word colony is becoming a little bit more common. And it's not just associated with. Movements that might seem to be very far to the left. So so I'm just curious. You know what I'm saying? So continuing hit the most important reason for us to do this. And it's specifically that from again from two thousand sixteen with that case where the enactment of when congress for the first time since nineteen fifty eight actually used those plenary powers that this supreme court of the United States interpret that it had over its territories, regardless of what we said about it right for the first time Younes did not only created this waits for us to restructure are dead because we cannot because federal statute did not allow us to do. So like any other instrumentality of state could or other independent nation could. So they gave us supposedly this great way of restructuring or dead in exchange of fuel to control board of compulsive seven people imposed by, you know, by the federal entities in which we don't participate to basically stupor steam, the Puerto Rican government. So but the thing is. That and with K Maria and with Donald Trump right in the Republican party all of a sudden for the first time in my life. For three hundred was been ignored. But three simply our our struggle will seek to put three in the political world in the United States. But now, we're been talked about all of a sudden Democrats are talking about as if they had actually not been part of the hundred and twenty one year colonialism problem in Puerto Rico would say have for example, SF Obama hadn't actually imposed professor and its that worry. Would you use that to look at my Twitter? I like this is where I'm like, I know Trump, I get it. I know Trump police here's the thing that I say, I may not be very very on this. I know what Trump's gonna say about what the oh. Like, I eight he's very blatant. He's very racist varies uniform bec-, it's it's like colonialism at its as at its extreme. But we're not honest with ourselves if we don't admit that Democrats, I'm especially Democrats who have been sort of the supporters of the Popolare. Is of the Commonwealth system have been just as complicit and you have to remind people that promise. Signed under Obama. I mean. In. And I heard and I heard the and especially the problem. It's actually worse when you take for example, the advent of the new progressive left, which I feel it's a natural ally for the pro-independence movement here. But when they start adopting discourse Dennis being actually used by the Puerto Rican right about equality asked Americans, I suppose to the nation that we are will there's a problem there. And I actually very respectfully I heard the interview that very good interview that you had with we're going to have right, but heat, for example to three things he he talked about the protests that happen here. And he said for simple, he didn't mention that. Even though there were prostrated protesters. They are that was actually organized by the Puerto Rican independence party, and we were much more people pro-independence people there than pro annexation there. And for example, he also said that. He also said that for example, he thought that there was a significant majority favoring statehood. Yeah. I would perhaps I can see that. Maybe there's actually a majority now. I would I wouldn't call it a a significant majority by any chance, and do you think that changed since the hurricane you think that's sort of eating people are questioning that difficult to measure? But the thing is I narrow it seems here for people question what we have. And that's a victory of the Puerto Rican independence movement, and you know, all who who have not fallen for the tweak of the Commonwealth, right? Actually this. Because one of the things that were noticing at least with the democratic candidates like Bethel rar has already spoken out for statehood. And then you you get other democratic candidates who I actually think are just using the talking points from like from like nineteen Eighty-four it feels like it's just like feel like a non this Cologne is like still like the ghost of like dictating democratic platform. Little slowly. But surely you're seeing the word decolonization starting to become part of the dialogue is that a victory. If that if that became like a platform for the Democratic Party it is victory. Just at the fact that the federal government and the people in power actually talking about this. But it's our responsibility and the United States government's responsibility to deal with this issue. But to the with it under international norms. Right. So wouldn't have even though now I would call it a victory. The fact that people are talking about colonialists in, but we can't normalize colonialism. 'cause the here the annexation for people. And now even for simple giddy have on other representatives of the American government. Mike talk about golden listen. But then for example, like he did in your interview, he would say, yeah. But we'll have to deal with the debt a real after with the economy s of the status question had nothing to do with the other thing, which is of course, false yet. Everything is. Enter related to to status and colonialism. I do think that's a major development in the Puerto Rican political discourse that at least you have people from opposing views understanding that lack loading Colonia. Like, let's just be right. And so I I do think it's a big Seth because you're right. You know words like colony were used just by the independence movement in the seventies. And eighties in the six, you know. But but where is it? Now, we're in like, this is my final question for you. Because and I'm definitely bring you on. And I told you wanna be on your show because then I'm. Thunder, and I need to I need to those are gonna go me Hinton people like because I do think this is the type of conversation that we as Puerto Ricans should be having more of real honest conversations about the status question because without labeling ourselves to so essay program. And that's the problem we've been so ingrained in the status machine that like, you know, we are identified as who we are for. I actually am very honest of the fact that. I can probably talk to about like, I said if I if I talked to one hundred Puerto Ricans, I'm sure the vast majority of them would probably have chose different times in their lives. They probably would be supporting different type of status. You know what I mean? Like, it's NS, right? It's an I think it's very unfair to just simply label us because if I'm talking about independent in bonanza that I'm a journalist, man. And it's like I people like like, oh, I'm being paid by lee-ing or like north just didn't so hard to have intelligent conversations about this. So my last question where does this independence movement go next in a post Maria world like what are you seeing? Well, we we have to be where we've always been right talking about these issues and every other issues that have that have to deal with Puerto Rican doing the we're trying to move people to think differently. To see option inside the system and outside the system of educating our people advocating, but basically telling people that were we're talking about is simply too. It's about democracy. We just can't be directed anymore by political institutions in which we don't participate end deserve the same treatment on opportunity that every other nation in the world has right. And we have to keep showing people. Why y also beside, you know, sorry from a romantic view, why we also need the tools the mechanisms that international institutions give us in order to to, you know, make our material world better than have better opportunities with the American people as well. This subsidy nothing to do with thinking that one is better or worse than the American people just think just understanding that we have a right to to serve determination and to be our own mention. And you know, that's that's what we have to keep on doing survey transformation of our view independent because I think it's been so. Oh, tied to one political ideology. That's very far to the left. We just got the honest about that. I mean, it's just like we eat, you know, it's like you mentioned in that. If you're if you say like so didn't have been December three quotes like, hey, where's your? Where's your where's your casual beret, which I think that's the problem? And there's plenty of progressively minded people who are actually very forward thinking who who favour independence any teams to be like something that would align itself with American progressivism. Yeah. And that's I can't leave without you don't urging are I wanted this opportunity because I especially wanted to talk to the new to those progressives in the United States into our Latino people there because the, you know, the one thing that cannot happen is for the American left to meet to become Alex with the Puerto Rican rights, which have absolutely nothing to do with progressivism. And none under you know, and to adopt deal. Those disco. From the right here, and to just three Puerto Ricans as if you know, we're just an ethnic group under the American national system without understanding that you wouldn't actually be protecting jobs, civil rights of people reciting, the United States, you would actually be stripping away the sovereignty that we want to have a supporter Rican nation, right? When people talk about nothing else in the United States, or you could say Mexican Americans or any other type of themes. You're actually talking about the REIs of of Latinos reciting the United States, but no one sexually argue take Mexico itself. Right. And and that cannot have later it's incision. And you know, the thing is that it we have to have this conversation in ultimately, we can normalize colonialism. The thing is the United States has a responsibility under international law to one or two things. Right. It would sits down with Puerto Ricans and actually says well, if you vote this way or do this. We're actually considering statehood in the system under our constitutional system. And this is what we're willing to to give you in. If you really decided this democratically, if not then the choice is not simple to graph colonialism. We can't normalize that. It's actually to do what they're you know, they are legally obligated to on their international law recognize the national sovereignty of the Puerto Rican people end, you know, we'll have our treaties like any other nations with respect amongst each other. Listen, I could talk about this all day with you unrest. Coincide Silas, better this year of radio Independencia for you. Go. First of all, thank you will bring it back and. The fact I hope you're talking like, you're the type of Weiss, which I say, you're the new Puerto Rican young voices. My generation's already screwed it up. So I, and I think what what I find refreshing about talking to you. Is that I I can see easily talking to someone that you don't agree with import table and actually have an intelligent conversation. We need to do more of that. We can't be screaming at each other or screening healthier. And you in you know, let's because in the end we all we all like good healthy debate. And I think I think, you know, I I hope people listen to this and understand that it's not as simplistic as no one put, you know, three percent of the people in port thirty going like independence, blah, blah, blah. It's not that. But before I let you go. Where can they find your podcast? I know it's in Spanish, but we're gonna we're gonna bring you back on where I wanna keep we got to continue to do this. You know what I mean? So definitely man. I I appreciate it. So we're called the body peninsula. You can we we're actually you can find in social media, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, Snapchat. Where also we also have a website. It's called the independence dot net. And you can find we have a YouTube channel, you can search us under lighting. Independencia so end. Of course, we heard as podcast in old major podcast platforms A such. Yeah. And and I will say, you know, my offer stands I wanna take a couple of your episodes in Spanish in just putting them up, and you should let me know. I wanna share of course, someone differently the opportunity. I guess they're honest with you. There's a lot of people who can understand it in Spanish. And I think it's important in guys do fantastic work on the risk on Saturdays by Jesse will bring you back from San Juan valley on that peninsula next time of Puerto Rico. We're going to do this over Allison throttles, you know. And I'll bring my recorder will just keep doing it. But I really appreciate your time. And that I certainly well, thank you so much. Thanks. That was under this Luna's better. The people have been telling you this the issue around independence in Puerto Rico is not as simplistic and under his you know, what? Bottom on he laid down a good case. Hope you learned something. And I think the point about the American left understanding that and not just falling into some other traps. I think it raises valid questions, but I also think you know, political ideology the Puerto Rican right has done an amazing job. And also, I would take the Puerto Rican center has done an amazing job in trying to politically de legitimize the Puerto Rican independence movement, the really good at it. Really good. And it's almost like become like, second nature. Believe me all the conversations that I have. And before I let you go guys. I'm journalists. This is what I talk about. Okay. Like, I'm sure I'm going to get tweets by the fact that like this is, you know, I'm I'm I'm part of some I don't know globalist strategy to to to make Puerto Rico independent. That's that's not why I do this guy. Is please the these conversations need to matter. And I'm really glad that hundreds was on. If you like what you heard guys tweet us a Latino rebels. Follow us Facebook, Instagram Twitter writer review tweet at me who lethal seventy seven because you know, when we're there were two thousand nineteen iheart best multicultural podcast nominee podcast of the year special. Thanks as always to our associate producer, Luis Luna Fudo media who made this happen. And like we always do. We'll be back. And like we always do we always close out with play the wedding. The wedding. Here. The old and the Austin at then in fact in power to the five which being incredible covered. Even when everyone is online it in with finding all your favorite live TV. Netflix prime video and more jerks by speaking at one voice. Don't miss the finish train fails out with the old and in with simple, easy Austin's. More quick call or vista store today. Not available. Steve.
3: "Museum Exploration" Week
"I'm your host and the founder of your buds area on this lab this episode for the Week of October Twenty first through twenty fifth two thousand nineteen each week on the show we share hi podcast listeners. Welcome to feedback with your butts brought to you by ear buds podcast collective we learn about how museums reflect and shape Iceland's unique cultural identity Friday's episode comes from Museo punks and it's called decolonisation Thursday's episode is from museums in strange places it's called a writer's Home Laxness Museum it's thirty one minutes long in this episode sex podcasts opening the conversation around sex and relationships pleasure podcasts hosted by a range of experts from sex educators to adult filmmakers to Comedians and their mother discussion of this week's theme on the Interwebs by using the Hashtag Museum podcasts. This week's newsletter is sponsored by pleasure podcasts which is a network of the L. Museum of Natural History in Washington DC Tuesday's episode comes from Cultura Conscious and is called community organizing museums Indus amount of unchecked cultural and educational power and it turns out the PODCASTS are a great way to interrogate them here the podcast Oliver Marino it's fifty three minutes long in this episode what can museums learn from the work of community organizers Oliver Marino discusses his work with the Latino is an episodes that Ian chose along with the descriptions provided by pot chaser Monday's episode comes from Museum archipelago and is called from extinct monster dacians the topics are always different and unique. Let's do it. This week's theme is called museum exploration the curator is MM unity at the Levine Museum of the New South A History Museum in Charlotte North Carolina Wednesday's episode comes from the Whitest Cube and
Future Ecologies presents: Back to Earth Queer Currents
"Hey folks. Thank you so much to everyone who took the time to respond to our little listener survey. We loved reading everything you had to say and how you feel about our direction as podcast. Thank you for all the poems, the fantastic recommendations, the suggestions, and the sweet words of encouragement. But most of all, we appreciated the chance to learn a bit more about you listening to this nerdy show of ours from all over the planet. and. Right here on the sailor sea. It fills our hearts to know that these stories and all the guest voices. We've had the honor of bringing to you are inspiring. So many people in so many different ways. Season three is almost here. Thank you for your patience. So we're going to officially closed the survey. That's Ed. We love hearing from you. You can always reach us through the contact form on our website future colleges dot net. Today. Excited to bring you another podcast that's been inspiring us over the summer. From the Serpentine Galleries and the corresponding serpentine podcast. The series back to Earth is a sonic collage of art and discussions with art makers responding to climate emergency and how we situate ourselves within this deeply entangled world. Among. So many other things this episode deals with orchids wildness de colonial clearness, the apocalypse and the meaning of Queer Ideologies. struck a chord with us. And it is a lot sexier than anything we've ever made. So Fair warning. Enjoy. This episode includes explicit content including references to sexual activity. Serpentine podcast. Back. To. Our. Hey Victoria. I'm thinking of you. Are Coming episode. Of Athens. Not at the beach, but the rocks of the sore. It's about a half hour drive from the city center. Can you hear the waves Welcome to the Serpentine podcast back to Earth I'm your host victorious and I'm an artist and this back to Earth podcast series is all about exploring the ways that artists are engaging with the climate emergency. Today's episode is a little bit different today I'm joined by Kosta Stassinopoulos who is part of the b-actor team at the Serpentine Galleries Victoria. It's so nice to hear your voice. I've been sending you little love messes and I've been enjoying so much this processes. Is. Donate to hear your voice. I. Am so excited to speak to you to co host with you. In this episode, we are going to be talking about things that can be considered under the term of Queer Ecology and I think that before we go into the episode, we should just take a moment and dissect what we mean what we could mean or what we don't mean don't know what is clear ecology. What do those things mean together, right? I mean Queer College aiding like. These two words together and it opens so many possibilities but at the same time I want to acknowledge that it's actually also. Quite mundane in a very interesting way because. We're not reading here to insert on episode that is sprinkled with very dust as much as I love glitter. This is not what we're here to do. So, by way of introduction assistant curator of life program at the Serpentine working on the general ecology projects and clear college as an area that feels very natural to me, and I know that this is a problematic term. But I'm I'm embracing all the problematic that go with it, and this is the way that leads my life in my work. It's not an insert into a program diversity targeting should never be sued the way that we were working addressing all of the complexities of our existence just like imagining queer world not be that difficult to stack to take. Let's break it down like a city as. A system of many different components that they all interact with each other. Words in Term Queer. Also is a term. Dodd is a huge umbrella for so many different people. So again, you have a space that does not hold absolutes in there. There are so many different colors in so many different you in Susan there. So putting these together, that is actually something quite rich definitely, and I think that so much of the reframing that needs to happen the queering that needs to happening of the kind of field of ecology has to do with moving away from absolutes moving away from our. Very, human need to classify things and create these false dichotomies to separate ourselves from nature. Two separate classifications from each other. When actually what really we need to focus on the relationships between things and something I've been thinking recently is how the relationships between things are just as if not more important than the things themselves, which is something that we are totally blinded to with our human need for in recognition and drawing lines around things. So I was thinking how can you disrupt or at least problem ties visions of queasiness? Feel like with an ulcer one unified vision of a clear ecology. Envy's amazing since then. What we can call the queer community are ecosystem is ours pfeiffer as the ecosystem of this planet. Victoria. What do you see? Ethic Hayes which I struggled through to consciousness. Smells of moisture. Pick vegetation. Soil. would. Decay. textures of ground beneath me. Things with six or eight legs crawling on my skin. Eating. NESTING. Or trying to reach the other side. I opened my eyes to early morning. Shake off my guests. A struggle up from where I am lying down Brushed by giant burn. There is a person in the middle distance. I can't make out their face in the glare of the Sun has it illuminates their auburn hair. I have a feeling. They are giving me a faint smile. As I, instinctively do to them. I have been here before. The sunset spire to the sky. It floods landscape and catches jewelled flashes of color deep into the forest. I looked towards my feet. And see what looks like a trampled flour in the soil still has anything. It looks as though it had complex pedal structure. Opening and twisting. And Iraq destined with tips that flash red like violence. Like sex endanger. I think of orchids twisting Rowntree's. Felt that in every single cell of my body can't you're meant to Sweetie I love how you talk about strangling and this thing. Before as thank you, I mean it really I was so inspired by my research into orchids for this piece because they. have so many different I mean they've been around since dinosaurs since before the continents separated and have evolved so many different ways of reproducing and having different relationships with different species that are erotic and deceptive I mean they. They're the perfect jumping off point to explore gender sexuality and eroticism and Power Dynamics and I think this brings me perfectly into a conversation that I had with one of my favorite thinkers Ama- Josephine Budge Ama- is a speculative writer artists, curators and pleasure activist. She's currently doing a PhD which takes a Queer de colonial approach to challenging climate colonialism in Sub Saharan Africa with a particular focus on inherently environmentalists pleasure practices in Ghana, which is where her family is from. Before we got into her incredible work exploring race art ecology feminism, I just wanted to ask her her perspective on the sensuality and eroticism of flowers. So when I said my day, this might be a question I mean any kind of looked around my house and have these beautiful long stems if pussy willows front of me and I thought Oh, it's pussy willows one hundred percents. It's because they call pussy willows, but there's just something so i. mean of course, they're not actually flowers while they flower but if you're not familiar pussy whether it's kind of like branches and this wonderful little like Sherry buds all them and they're so soft and a very white then they turn. Into, a beautiful acorn Ni tone the long keep you can keep them indefinitely dry without losing their feel so that this kind of like bunny rabbit is but. These tiny buds and the contrast between the branch and the soft bite and how that kind of velocity and they also kind of look a little bit like. Those beads that you? There's anal beads. But kind of like soft ones. You know just as just about how contrast the fog and the kind of. This kind of way of of having so many multiple dimensions that are both hidden and revealed at the same time. Yes. I've been doing a lot of walks and I've been looking so much at flowers and plants and flowers especially I mean there's such a incredible variety that exists in the British summertime but they really I think like are such a perfect way to express like the multiplicity of gender sexuality that exists for me. I think that lilies have always been the most explicit flower a statement is always. Looks Wet. Looks wet and it's so it's got that kind of dusting powder as if it's kind of like just excreted expulsion and then it's kind of dry and in this powdery like on the famed residue. Everywhere. Yes. Yes. Gets. Every way it's like contagious. Words us, but it's A. Little Bit. You know if we impregnated by plants, lilies of be like these hyper in pregnant. The. Bloom is about as high as my chest. Vertically symmetrical with a complex structure. On the top half. Five long ruffled puddles shoot up into the air and spiral back. Like they're reaching for the sky. or preparing to come down onto me. On the bottom half. One huge entirely Red Lebaron stretches out to me like a bottom lip which listens with a sticky substance. Either side of this many things whisker like pedals which trail on the ground at least a meter long each. The whole thing makes me think of a large vein wet mouth. Open expecting. So career Collins uses a collective. Higher biles myself, and then came back. Together, through a shad attention and also attraction and pleasure and joy in thinking through the abundance of ecology and how it is in every way. So called ogies is appropriate. That's about bringing attention to the quick aspect of nature but it's also about pushing back against that. I do of Quinson humans being seen as unnatural. It's like saying well, actually, you know we echoed everywhere else across this ecosystem set perhaps living as a species who only did monogamy and only do Sonoma tippety is incredibly unnatural compared to every other species. We find divergent forms of cohabitation of copulation of child-rearing in every species. Hours that has said that it needs to be this one way, and so it's about drew attention to those things but it's also about finding joy and so it's this incredible way to think about scale to think about attentiveness to think about being humble and learning from I'm really refine that joy and pleasure but also learn whether it's Don's moved or whether it's more ways of surviving and ways of navigating rapidly changing environment. In lonesome reached from these things that we see as being. So Small and insignificant, and yet without them, there would be no AAs very literally. What if it was all just the same. What if we all just become one thing? What if we're all just the same thing? What if we were the same being? Victoria. To Sea again. Like away from the city at a time when most people restricted during the And came here for this I and that fell transformative. But why? Why this kind of transformation be experienced more often. Why does it feel like transformation? Thank for many people it does. Transforming ourselves as something that everyone does for some reason, it's more. Guess Observer. Bowl and prominent for people that go against the norm and the expectations of a Hetero normative conservative culture. So. Why don't we only embrace transformation spar are very fabric of being there will be so much more liberating and fun you think. High cost us. I really wish that I could be by the see. I would love to jump into the healing energy that you speak about. I feel like there's so much that. You know myself in. I think a lot of people right now are hoping to kind of wash away or shed like real moment of transformation. To be honest, I've been really thinking a lot about. Transformation. Hair off last. Wednesday. Cut off about thirty inches. and. Friends they look like a mushroom somebody said I looked like the mushroom at the end of the world, the other day which I really loved. It's a difficult one isn't it? Because on the one hand I? Think we all seeing this massive political global transformations. Going ecological transformations. But on the other hand, it's it's really just just a volume of attention that has changed not necessarily the actual acts political dynamics themselves. La. La Movement has kind of had this latest ration- of public explosion is the start difficult. Spaces of being in a moment when everybody's kind of saying look everything's changing and those us who've kind of lift through these moments before saying well, is it really changing? What does that mean like is it? Who's it swinging Oh, and how's that actually going to result in? You know in a better world for people who are living through the ends of the current global capitalist system, White Supremacist Also what's been particularly interesting for me has been the transformation that's been afforded by working from home during quarantine actually this kind of full. Temporal shift from hyperactivity into space if enforced illness has been incredibly transformative, me intensive rethinking my priorities and wh- what my life to look like and want to feel like and how I need to kind of shift my goal goalposts a bit. In terms of how much I want to work, I, want to produce and that's been A. Really beautiful process of. A transforming my my body through. Of Yoga and just taking time. Buying houseplants and and now like. Some insane number like fifty house loves. It makes me like forty five minutes to water everything every day and then. Read, it will once a week. So there's also this kind of real. Different shift in timing and attentiveness and choosing one brings attention to. Want to hold onto you. Imagine being fig wasp who was born pregnant and born in a fake at the exact moment the flowers of that big reach maturity and begin dishes pollen. Imagine if you're only purpose was to collect bat pollen and then crawl into a different fake to pollinate its flowers. Layer eggs and then die that this could be perpetuated. Imagine. If you're only purpose Mr, perpetuate a cycle. Spurious that earlier, this is the back to Earth pocket series and Sparta back to Earth The Serpentine batteries, we have invited Jock Halberstam and microwave Nicole Miss. Bodies to curate with us a weekend of life programs that will address how we think about art activism concepts of language, the wild and how clear ca logical the colonial practices intervene and the dominant and very often hetero normative this worse on the environment and Climate Justice Michael Barr says professor interpretation of social, science and Cultural Studies at the in Brooklyn New York sees also director of the Global South Center a research center that works intersex off sociologies art and politics and the colonial methodologies. HALBERSTAM AS PROFESSOR DOUGLAS IN GENDER, Studies at Columbia University and the author of many seminal books, and there is this great sentence from one of his writings that want the Sir with you. His says wildness is worthy environment speaks back. Were Communication. Bows the penalty. Or awards collide Cultures Class and thanks for the part. I think. My work is interested in what falls outside of the category of the human and I've given the tomb wildness to these many Maine's that are on one hand controlled by human, Endeavour and conceptualized through human philosophy and yet exceed the human ability to script those arenas and so animals and plant life and all kinds of entities that fall outside of human classification could be understood as the category of the wild and my work pays a lot. Of attention to oppositional forces like order and disorder, and why we tend to think about as kind of disorderly and disorder. Eating slaw said sweeps through terrains or consciousness. In fact, it is order that is the problem with human centrists taught and disorder or wildness or Anneke or declassified. Knowledge is represent the possibility of being in different kinds of ecology and being in relationship to other ways of thinking. So I use this category of wildness and I think. That comes up in in Mark, very clearly in relationship to indigenous entity on the one hand but also in relation to the negative impact of extractive capital on the other, the term queer, and it's translations in various ways in which the term could be used for a set of non normative arrangements or frameworks you know certainly on the one hand has done enormous amount of work I. Mean I think Jack's long are Kevorkian many. Books along with Queer Color Scholarship have shown key ways in which we can think about ways to frame forms of living loving being desire for new worlds for other kinds of imaginary outside of the normative nation state or the grasp of hegemonic power I. Think it's a complicated term right in the global south in certain communities, communes of color when it's used as a universalising category and so then the effort to wild or Queer Queer. That Jack is making I think in my own work. Queer as quite a powerful word look, we'd to use it in that sense AC-. You I are becomes a way to mark the kind of episode difference of what it means to sink outside of normative contexts within the medicos trying to think beyond just the nation state. So for me look, we're allows that place of affinity communal connection, transversal horizontal affinities. INTIMACIES, political intimacies, events, social intimacy, social ecology that are not just in the gaze of the nation state and what it means to actually think way beyond the nation's date below the nation state across other kinds of affinities. The fact that market is able to take queer out of it Euro American context into the Americas where it is a force for the. D. Colonial be anti-colonial as well as the description of a whole set of sexual minority -tarian impulses it's so helpful in terms of breaking out of the deadlock off identity politics that has still the critical intensity potential off the category together you know. So in a Euro American context, Queer emerged in the nineteen nineties as a way of breaking loose from. The politics recognition that attended to lgbt efforts to simply enter into recognition through already legitimate channels, and the idea was that would mess up these epistemology in these ontological in productive in radical ways. But in fact, what's happened is because of the sort of stoltifying force liberal agendas like gay marriage, for example, queer has now just been rendered as an umbrella to. that. Allows for many different sexual minorities to cluster in the same umbrella and it lost its political charge. So the category of wildness is more useful to me personally because it offers a critique off systems of classification. The very systems produced categories like lgbt in the first place while also calling attention to a lodger climate climactic can environmental context within which the. Efforts of classification emerged in the first place. So conservation will recall was a kind of botanical project that was strongly linked with colonialism in the eighteenth century and that involved various colonial travels going around the world looking at flora fauna in people's taking notes, extracting all kinds of seeds and plant life, and then writing a narrative of the world into which everyone was. Placed, racially environmentally sexually and so on. So given that and given that that kind of civilizational script of the world wildness office within it has the potential to unmake. `unright an unthinking that script, and that for me is a kind of upgrade if you like of an earlier queer agenda, of course, nature has been used to majd lines. Pathology is sexual minorities in. fact, the earliest formulation off homosexuality was as a crime against nature. So where they classification of activity as sinful, no longer had coaches the new category was unnatural and what you find is in early quick tax from late Nineteenth Century early twentieth century a lot of authors the most obvious being someone like Oscar Wilde simply take up the charge of the unnatural and. In habit and you know in many ways that's the definition of Cam. It saying you, you think we're a natural you don't even know the half of it going all out with a kind of not just unnatural set of performances but anti natural in the world that we find ourselves in. However, we're kind of in a post natural state where no one really believes in nature anymore there isn't much laughed anyone could believe in as nature. So might book is interested in the post natural as Demane of queer and other kinds of resistant politics poetics. One hundred million years ago. The first lower appeared among giant trees and ferns orchids were among the first lowers. The first jewel of color, a world of green. And a time before animals. The various ingenious and highly specific ways Orca type of all. For their seats to trick fungi into providing nutrients in order to germinate. or to spread pollen through Mimicry and sexual deception. Or to grow in places or most can't or won't in or out of soil have been used as arguments for our higher intelligence guiding evolution. A comforting thought amongst? Chaos. And I just want to pick up on something that Jack was mentioning. I love this idea that pacalypse is not this kind of universal leising impulse and a singular event. You know it's it's easy to imagine that we have so many popular images that described that there will be this moment. Of. Kind of beyond time beyond the human and one of the things I very much learned in conversation with a number of indigenous artists and activists is really the idea on especially of working with my boot Chase Ramsey's which are gay. Oh, a filmmaker from southern Teela. Is. Now that toby has already come for five hundred years or more the ways in which the sto- pick upon territories of extraction has always been in play, and so it depends on from which vantage point one looks and sees, and which is perspectives actually show us that the Puck ellipses not the temporal future but it's kind of merging past present and future and I think Jack's category of wildness is really disrupting idea of a singular kind of normative temporarily in temporal framework for apocalypse as while. Apocalypse now, like apocalypse is always figured as an impending future that is going to arrive, and of course, we're in so many ways already in it and I think here of the work of an artist, I write about my book can monk men who is a CREE first nations autism to spirit autism from Canada. He Paints these enormous canvases in many ways repaint the history of modernist ought in a European context nonmeal the hand repaint the history of colonialism from a native perspective, and he has a one painting called the scream that of course is a reference to advise monks iconic modernist painting. But instead of having a kind of universalist a monkey Lewis figure who is screaming the anxiety of the world. He gives assistant credible canvas of Canadian soldiers arriving to take native children away from their mothers and so the scream is the how of indigenous refusal and outrage, and it's a reminder that what modernism has positioned as apocalypse as outrage as anxiety are in fact, seemed very, very differently from the perspective of the colonized, and it's that perspective that we want to attend to when thinking in much more radical ways about apocalypse and about climate. There was some kind of storm. It started falling in the forest. Lightly at first and then so thick. Seeds. So. Small. They were like dust pollen. Spores. I couldn't help breathing in choking on it as it covered the inside of my mouth. It forced me to my knees. My head to the ground. Crawling along the forest floor trying to find cover as my skin became irritated and breathing became harder and harder. I started to pitch intensely and my eyes watered. Seeds were sticking to my skin sticking to the inside of my throat. I heard joking sounds. Eventually drowned out by my own. I covered my head in my arms and curled into a fetal position. Wondering if this was how I was going to die. When I heard a strangled screaming at suddenly stopped. When it cleared. Was Gone. Well doesn't MEAN TO BE A. Why is it different being queer anywhere calls? In. The world. I think that one of the most amazing things about being queer what is that? It gives us. This kind of other perspective this other. This other standpoint to look at the world from that is not the dominant one. A view from elsewhere. So I like to say And as people, we can use this kind of peek behind the curtain. The sense that things are not what we've been told they are. There are always more perspectives out there and I think it's really Appropriate that you're on an island because this makes me think a lot about. This moment that I was going through. A break up where I was reading the doors of perception. By all Huxley and he describes humans. As Island, universes Because of the different. Places that were standing. And you know, I, think this episode of Ecology College. Can really focus on the fact that you know as we've been saying, there is only transformation and the importance of constantly pushing against our own perspectives. And tried to really think about submerged perspectives and thinking about ways in which though seeking spaces outside of the purview of capitalism are already doing to tether ourselves to each other and not I. Think has a long history obviously in queer theory, what it means to be in relational connection to each other. So this emerged perspectives was very much a way of dealing with being certain forms of Visu, -ality, or recognition knowing that looks alongside in horizontally. Rather, than vertically turning to postcolonial studies, but then de Colonial Studies as you know in Queering de colonial studies to think about the submerged or what lies below the surface as well. You know that that great iceberg so that we can also get into our own desires and so these submerged spaces art forms puncturing the homogeneity supposedly authoritarian noise space rhetoric, smoothness of the idea of liberal democracy. You know just a puncturing force as well. They think. monocultural logic against something much more diverse in Pali connected and a kind of multi tentacled being like the octopus right the that lives sometimes at the edge that this allows us to break down some of the thinking that is actually stifled us an open up new histories, new ways of telling. So I'm really trying to do that now in a new work. Called at the edge querying, complicating these spaces that have been often bound up I, think the problem with current discourses it's very humanist, not just human centric but humanist people engaged in some of the work of conservation or animal care or whatever leave intact the power relations between humans and animals I. Think. I'm trying to conceptualize in my work Mrs. Alongside Marcus work. snowden Hani hot in others is not had. We make the world a better place for non human actes. But how do we actually destroy the world that humans have built and maybe undo some of the logic having just completely locked into these systems off extraction and exploitation? I don't think there's a way fullwood I think is only away down the pocket. All already been here and being delivered could see of these discursive structures like Hetero normativity, white supremacy, the domination of the wealthy, and that's why. I'm saying we have to undo the mechanisms that keep returning us to systems within which the same people have the power over and over again in the next phase, we have to impact inhabit the arenas within which we are uncontrollable ungovernable unmanageable. We can't keep trying to say, no, no, we we want to be managed. We want to be under the purview of the nation and the state. We actually have to embrace the wild accusations, Dr Hulda minority communities, and turn them into a form off widespread dissent. What is it about being thing that makes you? Because we're all just the same. I don't want to be the same and. I am the same. This submerged world that sees speaking of that is really a part of the sexual and aren't underground on C. Term said, and it's super important to think about all of these worlds that are in the basement or the set the no asthma grant talks about it and her book. Thinking about the sea and the underwater makes me think of the way that we keep returning to the waves actually in this episode in the way that we have been talking to each other and how like without the sea and without the waves crossing the islands and without waves traveling across the see how do you know what an island? How do you know where land begins ads? So who is the one that is doing the mapping? When you can't really ignore the fact that all this land is actually surrounded by submerged swirled stop define it. I had this idea I wanted to run by. You want to give you one of my favorite quotes in letter ever I just thought about it I was like, okay of course, recording waves and sending. Victoria. Wolf. The waves and it says an enemy to the wave rises it's wells it arches its back I am aware wants more of a new desire something rising beneath me like the proud horse whose rider first spurs and then pulls him back. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. That's really beautiful. And I. Think it really points to the fact that desire is also always transforming within us. Definitely as people we can acknowledge and it makes me think about going back into what we speaking little bit about. At the beginning of the episode. This thing that all there really is his transformation. I. Think that can also be phrased as all there ever is is apocalypse. So thinking more about apocalypse I just want to go back to this conversation that I had with Alma because she has this incredible project apocalypse reading room, which you'll hear more about. As old idiom like, can we actually right or imagine something that we haven't seen or experienced which I think about a lot I think about you know at least once a week I sit in that question. And Ecology, of course, gives us more imagery more ways of being ways of reproducing ways of cohabiting of consuming another ways of decomposing ways as being. On ways to move becoming a meal. Consumable than all of the speculative fiction writers who were live right now in an has ever been alive could write about you. They really give us this on imaginable second sight of possibility would go so far say without the incredible ecological experiments. That we see the results of all around us every day. Science fiction could not expect the fiction could not exist. I definitely have always felt like science fiction has been preparing for the OPPO clicks. These kinds of books. That I thought word or think would contain the knowledge that I need to not only survive a kind of breakdown, an economy and society but also to build something different that really feeds into the reading room, which was a physical installation free word last year, and is now virtual installation online. So it's a curated collection of books that we might need to change the end of the world. So the survival guide that I chose to bring the apocalypse reading room was the. Trying to by trying to close this really important phrase that I keep coming back to you, which is the name is the guest of the substance. Oh. Wow. That's exquisite. Isn't it and I? Think it is just really. It also talks about perspectives as temporary lodging places and how important it is to really like sit in transformation and realize that all of their is is transformation. All of these categories, all of these names that we give to things you know they are. Temporary whether that's temporary because of our lifetimes our humanity or because we have the sense to recognize that impairments is the only thing that's permanent. It's really to me the root of what it means to do clear. Ecological wealth is to remember to be humbled by the way that we see things now not owning is probably not the way we will see things even tomorrow or in a few years or at the end of life. But. is also just one way of how something being seen in this moment throughout time and into Specie. The way that I see rain is incredibly different to how an aunt my see rain. How a microbial Rosa might perceive the soil that lives in the coming down Peru denser moist an orbits things are true in my truth is no more important than another truce in for me it's that complete shifting of hierarchical understanding of what knowledge is and what truth is that is the key learning that we have to do is a species from thinking with Kuirokawa Jeez. The flower itself is three meters tall. The smell is so strong it stings my nostrils and I bathe in it. My senses field, there are limits. Urine to go forward still. Colors I have never seen an impossible architectural shapes which evoke femininity and Masculinity and Heaven Earth and light, and dark, and young, and old and sensuality, and becoming opening and twisting away. Opening and beckoning that smell that makes me forget what I am that makes me want to return to the state I have known before that cannot describe to with words. I wanted. I want to be. I feel that in some way I have already been. But I. AM already at. and. Have come back to you. On the believe at the all the pleasure and love and joy and kindness and beliefs that we manage to hold in a lifetime remains leaves lily like residues all over the couples this. I wake up. With pollen smashed across my hands and face. The way that you walk the slam the way that you. Touch a leaf does liver as do it's the way that we connect to each other but again, going against the human focus and that's all think about how we connect to other spaces. This whole thing about how we come back to what we perceive different I think that but we can really gain from all of the knowledge that has been shared in this episode is the importance of stepping outside of our perspectives pushing against our perspectives being comfortable outside of knowledge pushing boldly ahead into the realm of not knowing because that is around that we actually you know occupy. Convince ourselves otherwise, what is it about being thing makes you have been Because, we're all just the same and. I don't want to be the same. But I am the same. This serpentine backed Earth podcast is presented by me Victoria Sin and Costas Stassinopoulos and produced by Katie Colleen for reduced listening. Thank you so much for having made. This has been so amazing. Thank you for being here and I WANNA. Thank you actually get through the holy solder worth Keta Callen, and of course, all of our participants who have made this episode. So Special Jock Halberstam and my gonNA bodies and Joseph Buds who served with us. So generously I really WANNA. Thank you. Victoria. Thank you for sharing thoughts and feelings with me. I've been doing it all this time and I want to keep doing it for ages to come. Yes. Well, thank you for being here and. I feel very privileged to be able to have been able to share my work in this episode. What we've been listening to you and dipping in and out of is a sound piece called and at the Pentacle the foot of a mountain originally commissioned by site gallery, Sheffield for the exhibition rewriting the future. Sophia Maria Sonya dire ours Lemaire. And it is also currently on show at the tank. In Shanghai as of the exhibition more and more and more I mean really came out of the research that I did in Octavia, Butler's papers at the Huntington in La in her research into the Amazon and EPA fights, and we will return to it now. I step forward to meet its presence. At. Inhale the carbon dioxide I exhale. Feel exhale. Inhale. Anti Inhale, and my breath within defines my body and its limits. And I exhale my breath without me circulates through the air to breathe by everything that comes before me and everything which comes after me. And I inhale as many molecules as there are stars and all the galaxies and the visible universe. And my three billion billion billion atoms intricately arranged lose their name to their individual parts. And I exhale and the bloom I face inhales me completely. And I go through your leaves. Theory or hundreds of thousands of microscopic mounds. I'm absorbed into your cells. I'm broken down into my atom aspire chloroplast. Into Oxygen. Into Carbon. Into electrons circling protons and neutrons. Into infinite things. Into things which make up and move through everything. Into the same things which I have always been. Into the same thing it has always been. If I had always been the same thing. You, came from the. Back into the The. Same. The same.
41: "Authentically Yours" Week
"Hi and welcome to feedback with your buds. The podcast arm of ear buds podcast collective. I'm Ariel your host and the founder of ear buds. This episode cover the week of July thirteen through seventeen twenty twenty. Ear Buds. podcast collective is listening movement. We send an email. Every Sunday that contains a theme and five podcast episodes on that theme and each week's podcast picks are curated by a different person. Anyone can carry the list. Before we start just a note that since I'm currently driving across the country for the next few weeks and recording on the go, the audio quality may sound a little different than what you're used to. Let's jump into the episode. We are so excited that our newsletter and podcast sponsor is the indy drop in podcast. You'll hear more about India dropping later in the show, but just know that if you're looking for ways to promote your podcast, this is definitely a growth hack. On, this, show I'll share our five podcast episode recommendations of the week and some information about the episodes. Hey I'm andy if you don't know me, it's probably because I'm not famous but I did start. A men's grooming company called Harry's. The idea for Harry's came out of a frustrating experience I had buying razor blades. Most brands were overpriced over designed and out of touch at Harry's. Our approach is simple. Here's our secret. We make sharp durable blades and sell them at honest prices for as low as two dollars each. We care about quality so much that we do some crazy things like by. By a world class German blade factory, obsessing over every detail means we're confident and offering one hundred percent quality guarantee. Millions of guys have already made the switch to Harry's so thank you if you're one of them, and if you're not, we hope you give us a try with this special offer, get a Harry starter set with a five. Blade Razor waited handle, Shave Gel and travel cover offered just three bucks plus free shipping. Just go to Harrys DOT COM and enter five thousand at checkout. That's Harrys. Dot Com code five thousand. Enjoy. We'll also share some podcast industry news. Patriot shoutouts, and then we'll wrap it all up. I are ear buds podcast collective recommendations. This week's theme comes to us from Don Charene his called authentically yours. Here's why Don chose this theme. She writes. In a world full of fakes, being authentic is as dangerous as it gets. Here are the episodes chosen by Don for this week's theme along with short descriptions of each one. The first episode comes from well-spoken Tokens, and his called decolonizing the glam sector. It's thirty one minutes long. In today's episode, Jason Esther top dealing with Miss Rona decolonization in the glam sector in relation to black. Panther and James Actor and their mighty whites. The next episode comes to us from authentic our by Kaphalo, Selo the episode called. What does being gay mean to me? It's thirteen minutes long. Here's the description. This is the second episode of this podcast expressing what it means to be gay to Kaphalo Selo the host of the podcast. The next episode comes from the perfectly flawed podcast and has called her world blew apart. It's twenty eight minutes long. Here's the description of this podcast. It's a place to find an empowered community of sisters who challenged and encouraged others to see not only the perfection in our flaws, but to no longer be defined by them. The next episode comes from musings of a modern Muslim and called my covid nineteen experience. It's forty five minutes long. In this episode free recounts her firsthand experience with the novel coronavirus and her journey to recovery. And the last episode of the week comes from a podcast, called a teams perspective and is called a thirteen year old learning how to get along with her brother. It's twenty eight minutes long. In this episode. Listen as this thirteen-year-old discusses how covid nineteen has impacted her relationship with her brother. Those are the episodes chosen by Don for this week's theme Authentically Yours. Follow along with a discussion of this week's podcast episodes by using the Hashtag authentic parts. Each week in our newsletter are curator's have a chance to shout out something that they love or want to promote. It's called the Self Promise Action. They can shout out a project that they're working on a company. They admire the movie. They really enjoyed or anything. Here's what Don wants to tell us about. She writes support. My friend Eric Christianson with his latest project unmasking hope a life altering documentary depicting resiliency over trauma. Just search for the unmasking. Hope documentary on Google. We're skipping out on podcast industry news this week while there is definitely a lot going on, we are on the go, so instead of we'll direct you to our favorite resources for podcast industry news as always make sure to check out. Sky Pillsbury's inside podcasting newsletter. You can find it at inside dot. com slash podcasting. There's also pod news. Dot, net the daily newsletter written by James Cridland, and of course the Bella collective, which does contain some podcasts industry news, but is mostly recommendations podcast. From an amazing group of writers that's Bello Collective Dot. COM We'll be back soon with podcasts industry news. Next time for us to tell you about. Our sponsor were always really grateful to our sponsors, but I'm super pumped to tell you about this one because I know many of my listeners to this podcast and subscribers to the newsletter are indy podcasters themselves and are looking for ways to promote their shows. indie drop in. That's our sponsor. They can help you promote your show. indie drop in is a podcast network that promotes indie podcasters. It's not a network that you have to join, but it's one hundred percent feature episodes from other creators. Listeners of the indie dropping podcasts get to hear it an entire episode from your podcast, and if they enjoy it, they can then follow you. Your featured episode includes your cover art. Your show notes your chapters. Your calls to action everything from you, but it shows up the INDIE droppin feed. Indeed dropping wants the listener to experience your episode the way that you designed it. The goal of indie dropping is to drive listeners to your show. It's one hundred percent free to join, and they never charged the creator for anything. To learn more to apply to have your podcast featured go to India drop in Dot. COM SLASH EAR buds. That's I N. D.. I E. D. R. O. P. I. N. DOT COM slash ear buds. As always we're super grateful to our patriot, supporters Elissa coal. Dan Jarod Michael and the Retro Network. You can also become supporter at any level. The lowest is two dollars. We'd love it if you join us. On. Patriot dot com slash ear buds podcast collective. We have a bunch of cool tears and things that we give away when you join us, so go ahead and check that out again. That's Patriot. Dot Com slash ear. Buds podcast collective. Head to our social media to find links to the episodes that we mentioned we post everything on twitter, and you can find us on twitter at ear buds, pod Call A, R B U D S P o D, C o L. Were also on instagram and facebook at ear. Buds podcast collective. Can sign up to receive our podcast recommendation email at ear buds podcast collective dot org. It goes out every single Sunday night and you can see this written in front of you in your inbox. You can get it at ear. Buds podcast collective dot org. This show is written and produced by me. It's edited mix and designed by Daniel Trick. Our newsletter is edited by ABC Lonski. Our theme music is by Matt Speedo. We'll be back next week with more podcast recommendations. If you like what we're doing with our newsletter and the podcast, you can let us know by leaving a review on Apple. It really helps people find the show. Just go to rape this podcast dot com slash feedback. It'll take you to a browser where you can choose where you want to leave a review. It's super easy again. That's rate this podcast dot com slash feedback. We will catch you next week until then stay safe and keep on listening to podcasts by.
Explainer 176: Can land expropriation help heal South Africa?
"In addressing inequality quality it seems a straightforward indeed elegant policy. Take stuff off people who have a lot of it and give it to people who don't have any of it however anybody certainly any government proposing such a measure would do well to heed the immortal wisdom of H L Mencken who wants observed that there is is always a well known solution to every human problem needs plausible and wrong nevertheless the idea of land expropriation has returned to the public discourse in South Africa a panel assembled by President Cyril Ramaphosa to look into the idea has returned a proposal recommending in limited circumstances the seizure of land without compensating the owners. We should no longer be afraid of this process of having to change the land ownership architecture in our country. It is here and it is here to stay. It is going to happen land. Land ownership has been a persistent issue in post-apartheid South Africa and not without reason a quarter of a century after the racist monstrosity of apartheid was formerly dismantled white South Africans who comprise roughly nine percent of the population still own seventy two percent of the farmland possessed possessed by individuals as an illustration of the lingering effects of systemic injustice. It's hard to beat this by lament is rare opportunity unity to redress on this past wrongs to allow the natives who have lost so much to reclaim the dignity. <MUSIC> BIC by kitching our land back no law shall. We be treated as life in our own land. Never Ramaphosa's panel has proposed seizing land which is held for speculative purposes land which is occupied and worked by tenants and land that has has been abandoned it has also suggested taking inner city buildings owned by absentee landlords for obvious and understandable reasons these these measures will go over well with a significant proportion of South African voters especially those who have lately been tempted away from President Obama poses his African National Congress now very much the Party of South Africa's establishment and towards the radical firebreathers of the opposition Economic Freedom Fighters Party not who nearly doubled the parliamentary presence in last May's election the F. F. led by Julius Malima who might be charitably described as uncompromising uncompromising in his general approach favors wholesale nationalization of South Africa's land. You'll say I thought what colonialism we wanted decolonisation yet yourself party or Lord Boorda's in Africa what is being proposed by President Obama poses panel is significantly less than that but it is nevertheless significant as it stands under section twenty five of South Africa's Constitution and the government may expropriate land but is required to cough up just and equitable compensation there has long been chat about amending this his clothes and or concocting some legal argument that in certain circumstances just and equitable compensation might amount to nothing they is also a growing body of opinion in our country that the constitution as it stands does not impede. beat expropriation of land without compensation that expropriation will be popular in some electorally important demographics is beyond doubt and that is very usually the clinching argument in matters of politics. Although some polling in South Africa suggests widespread unease with the idea of no compensation factor less often subject to rigorous scrutiny is whether or not a given policy will actually work and where expropriation nation of land is concerned. The are some discouraging precedents and if you WANNA see the inroad of what you want to do today most infamously in the early years of the twenty th century Zimbabwe's then President Robert Mugabe ordered the seizure of white-owned farms and they're transferred to black ownership good have looked at what happened in Zimbabwe. Remember signor Robert Mugabe went down the same road was he also did in so doing was effectively <unk> demolish. Zimbabwe's agricultural infrastructure femme production plummeted by two thirds in less than a decade and Zimbabwe's economy collapsed alongside to the point where the country had to abandon its hyper inflation stricken currency in two thousand nine. Zimbabwe issued a one hundred trillion dollar banknote note which wouldn't buy a phosphate. They're actually doing the opposite non Zimbabwe. 'cause they realize the folly of their ways. South Africa is not Zimbabwe's and Cyril Ramaphosa Hosa is not Robert Mugabe but the <hes> some similarities many years after the end of white minority rule things remain extremely tough for many among long South Africa's black majority the unemployment rate in South Africa is a staggering scandalous twenty seven point six percent even higher among youth who. Who are increasingly drawn to the E. F F and South Africa is as Zimbabwe was an apparently attornal one party Democracy Ramaphosa a post has big problems and the means always tempting of making big gestures in response. If this Kevin was serious about restitution and redistribution we would speed up the hundreds of thousands of land claims that tremaine unprocessed in South Africa that is what it serious party would do if it was kid about land performer land redistribution the trouble is that property rights matter they are along with free and fair elections a free press judicial independence and the rule of law one of the crucial differences between functional society and a shambles property rights are also in this specific instance crucial to the foreign investment which South Africa urgently requires. Nobody is going to buy something if they're not sure they will be allowed to keep it and in fact we have said to those who are investing in no country that they shouldn't have no fear that the land property is going to be expropriated while the proposals of the presidential panel panel commendably constrained they will prompt concerns about these slipperiness of this particular slope they are of the ways to redress economic imbalance and historical injustice. The President Ramaphosa will be wearily aware that they are often more complex and long term than understandably impatient poor people would prefer he could of course set a personal example his own farm. The in Taba Neo near state in Malaga Province is reckoned at five thousand one hundred Hector's plenty to go around for monocle twenty four. I'm Andrew Moolah <music>.
NEJM This Week - February 14, 2019
"Welcome. This is the New England Journal of medicine. I'm Dr Michael beer this week February fourteenth two thousand nineteen. We feature articles on trust us MAB 'em Tensing in residual breast cancer e cigarettes versus nicotine replacement therapy outpatient, Mersa decolonization notch and liver fibrosis and divided. We fall a review article on aspirated pneumonia. A case report of a woman with delusional thinking and Paris, usua- and perspective articles on Brazil's fight against hepatitis C. Under a stray Elliot's approach to hepatitis C on reducing unfair out of network billing and on developing drugs for high risk early breast cancer. Trust user, MAB 'em Tensing for residual invasive her two positive breast cancer by Gunter on mink, bits from the German breast group, nor Eason book Germany patients who have residual invasive breast cancer after receiving Neo adjutant chemotherapy, plus her two targeted therapy. Have a worse prognosis than those who have no residual cancer the Katherine trial compared agile entrust us album Tensing T DM one with trust us map alone. In one thousand four hundred eighty six patients who had her two positive early breast cancer and residual invasive cancer at surgery after completion of Neo Adua chemotherapy, plus her two targeted therapy at the interim analysis invasive disease or death had occurred in twelve point two percent of patients in the T DM one group and in twenty two point two percent. Of patients in the trustee map group. The estimated percentage of patients who were free of invasive disease at three years was eighty eight point three percent in the T DM one group and seventy seven percent in the trust using map group T DM one resulted in a fifty percent lower risk of recurrence of invasive disease or death distant recurrence as the first invasive disease event occurred in ten point five percent of patients in the T DM one group and fifteen point nine percent of those in the trust. Using math group. The safety. Data were consistent with the known safety profile of T DM one with more adverse events associated with T DM one than with trust user, MAB alone. Among patients with her two positive early breast cancer who had residual invasive disease after completion of Neo Adua in therapy. The risk of recurrence of invasive, breast cancer or death was fifty percent lower. Lower with education tedium one than with trust user, mob alone in an editorial Daniel Hayes from the university of Michigan Rogle cancer center and Arbor writes that the trial by on mink Vitz and colleagues is a game changer. It suggests that Neo edge of chemotherapy with trust us you MAB with or without per Tuesday. Mab is the standard of care for patients with newly diagnosed her two positive breast cancer, especially those with stage two or three disease. This approach has the ability to reduce the extent of local treatment more important it will guide post operative systemic therapy. If patients do not have a pathological complete response with such a regimen post operative treatment with T DM one offers a major opportunity to improve long term outcomes, caveat, emptor, doctors and patient. Need to be aware that the side effects of this regimen are more common than with trust us, some abolone and occasional severe toxic effects need to be considered therefore T DM one should not be used in patients with a pathological complete response or in those with stage one disease. These patients have a very favorable outcome with agile unpack la- Taxol and trust us him AB alone. Nonetheless, this trial is one more step toward personalized medicine and reduced mortality among patients with early stage, breast cancer. Residual disease after Neo edge of in therapy. Developing drugs for high risk early breast cancer, a perspective article by touch on prowl from the food and Drug administration, Silver, Spring, Maryland registration trials have drugs for early breast cancer have historically involved administration of standard systemic therapy with or without a new drug after breast surgery such trials typically enroll thousands of patients and require lengthy follow up because the majority of patients will not have a recurrence, and there can be an interval of years between early stage, breast, cancer and development of metastatic disease, this research model delays regulatory approval of potentially curative agents for use in early stage cancer by a decade or more in the Katherine trial patients received standard systemic therapy before surgery and the new agent was. Tested, only in those found to have residual invasive cancer in the breast or lymph nodes at the time of surgery. These patients are at higher risk for future metastatic disease than patients without residual cancer. In two thousand twelve these authors from the FDA proposed using the pathological complete response rate as a new regulatory end point to expedite development of drugs for high risk early breast cancer despite ongoing questions about whether pathological complete response. Rates can identify beneficial agents in early breast cancer trials are underway. The Katherine trial should prompt study of other strategies for introducing new agents into breast cancer treatment. A randomized trial of e cigarettes versus nicotine replacement therapy by Peter hey, Jack from Queen Mary university of London in this study, eight hundred eighty six adults attending UK national health service. Stop smoking services were randomly assigned to receive either nicotine replacement products of their choice, including product combinations provided for up to three months or an e cigarette starter pack a second generation refillable e cigarette with one bottle of nicotine illiquid with a recommendation to purchase further illiquid of the flavor and strength of their choice. Treatment included weekly behavioral support for at least four weeks the one year abstinence rate was eighteen percent in the e cigarette group as compared with nine point nine percent in the nicotine replacement group among participants with one year abstinence. Once those in the e cigarette group were more likely than those in the nicotine replacement group to use their assigned product at fifty two weeks eighty percent versus nine percent. Overall throat or mouth irritation was reported more frequently in the e cigarette group sixty five point three percent versus fifty one point two percent. In the nicotine replacement group and nausea more frequently in the nicotine replacement group thirty seven point nine percent versus thirty one point three percent. In the cigarette group the cigarette group reported greater declines in the incidence of cough and phlegm production. There were no significant between group differences in the incidence of wheezing or shortness of breath. E cigarettes were more effective for smoking cessation than nicotine replacement therapy. When both products were accompanied by behavioral support. Bill Linda Borrelli from Boston University writes in an editorial that the evidence of effectiveness in this trial must be balanced against the short term and long term safety of e cigarettes. A key finding is that among participants with sustained abstinence at one year eighty percent in the cigarette group or still using e cigarettes, whereas only nine percent in the nicotine replacement group or still using nicotine replacement this differential pattern of long term. Use raises concerns about the health consequences of long-term e cigarette. Use e cigarette vapour contains many toxins and exerts potentially adverse biologic effects on human cells in vitro or in animal models, although toxin levels and biologic effects are generally lower than those of tobacco smoke. An additional societal consideration is the effect of adult e cigarette use on children and young. Bolts a consensus has emerged that e cigarettes are safer than traditional combustible cigarettes. But it remains controversial whether e cigarettes should be recommended as a first line treatment to assist smoking cessation alongside FDA approved treatments. The appropriate duration of e cigarette quote treatment for smokers trying to quit is also uncertain. The editorial lists recommend that e cigarettes used only when FDA approved treatments combined with behavioral counseling fail. That patients. Be advised to use the lowest dose needed to manage their cravings. And that there be a clear timeline and off ramp for us use of e cigarettes should be monitored by healthcare providers further research on the health consequences of long-term e cigarette. Use is needed. In an editorial. Jeffrey driven writes that nicotine is amazingly addictive. Electronic cigarettes are nicotine delivery devices for humans since smoking is not a natural behavior like eating or drinking. The manufacturers of these devices commonly add flavoring to the liquid from which the nicotine aerosol is generated to make the initial exposures more pleasurable the flavoring enhances the appeal to first time users, especially teenagers flavored e cigarettes have been successful in the marketplace. The rates of vaping among teenagers are increasing at an alarming rate. The creation of a large cohort of nicotine addicted adults has consequences beyond the adverse physiological effects of nicotine, Scott Gottlieb. The Commissioner of the FDA has been admirably outspoken on this issue in his taken strong action. The FDA. A will soon be banning the sale of flavored products other than mint menthol and tobacco at most convenience stores and gas stations and will be halting online sales until websites have heightened age verification standards. We think the FDA should simply ban the sale of flavored nicotine products for use in e cigarettes. The public health problem that e cigarettes can help solve by helping people who are users of combustible tobacco products, stopped smoking by switching to vaping is adequately. Addressed by liquids that are not flavored to appeal to adolescence we urge the FDA to use it. Statutory powers in regulating nicotine delivery devices to take the bold step of removing these flavored products from the market. Decolonisation to reduce post discharge infection risk among Mercer carriers by Susan Wong from the university of California Irvine school of medicine hospitalized. Patients who are colonized with methicillin resistant staff aureus Mersa are at high risk for infection after discharge this trial evaluated whether after hospital discharge decolonisation with topical Chlor heck sitting and MU Perote's in monthly for six months. Plus hygiene education was superior to educational alone in reducing the likelihood of Mersa infection in patients colonized with Mercer carriers in the per protocol population, Mercer infection occurred in nine point two percent of participants in the education group and in six point three percent in the decolonization group. Eighty four point eight percent of the Mersa infections lead to hospitalization infection from any cause. Occurred in twenty three point seven percent of the participants in the education group and nineteen point six percent of those in the decolonization group. Eighty five point eight percent of the infections lead to hospitalization. The hazard of Mersa infection was significantly lower in the decolonization group than in the education group hazard ratio zero point seven this lower hazard, led to a lower risk of hospitalization due to Mersa infection has ratio zero point seven one in as treated analyses. Participants in the decolonization group who adhered fully to the regimen had forty four percent fewer Merce infections than the education group and had forty percent. Fewer infections from any cause post discharge Mersa decolonisation with Chlor heck sitting and Mupa Rousson led to a thirty percent lower risk of Mersa infection than education alone. Aspiration pneumonia. A review article by Lionel Mandel from McMaster University Hamilton, Ontario, Canada, aspiration pneumonia is best considered. Not as a distinct entity. But as part of a continuum that also includes community and hospital acquired pneumonias, it is estimated that aspiration pneumonia accounts for five to fifteen percent of cases of community acquired pneumonia, large volume. Aspiration? Macro aspiration of colonized aura fringe or upper gastrointestinal contents is the scenic Kwan, none of aspiration pneumonia. This review focuses on aspirin involving the lung Parang, comma, primarily aspirated pneumonia and chemical Newman Itis challenges remain in distinguishing aspiration pneumonia from chemical Newman. Itis aspiration pneumonia is an infection caused by specific microorganisms, whereas chemical Newman is. This is an inflammatory reaction to irritative gastric contents. The diagnosis of aspirated pneumonia depends on a characteristic clinical history witnessed macro aspirin risk factors and compatible findings on chest radiography. These radiographic findings include infiltrates in gravity dependent lung segments superior lower lobe or post earier upper lobe segments. If the patient is in a supine position during the event or basil segments of the lower lobe if the patient is upright during the event, the causative agents in aspirin pneumonia have shifted from anaerobic to Arabic bacteria treatment, and prevention strategies are discussed. A forty eight year old woman with delusional thinking and parasitism of the right hand a case record of the Massachusetts General Hospital by Charlotte, HOGAN and colleagues a forty eight year old woman presented to an emergency department with tingling of the right hand and was found to have disorganized and delusional thinking one hour earlier the patient felt in acute prick Ling and tingling sensation diffusely on the right palm, the tingling resolved before examination. The patient stated that she had recently traveled to Boston from New York City to visit museums and she requested accommodations from medical personnel in Boston because she did not have a place to stay on examination. The patient was described as having a lay bio affect with rapid and tangential speech. The patient was discharged the list of local shelters and hotels, five hours. After discharge the patient felt recurrent. Ruling on the right palm primarily along the radio nerve distribution. And she again presented to the emergency department. She reported that she had been unable to find a shelter and that she feared hotel staff would perform unwanted sleep. Studies or gas her examination revealed inconsistent thought processes and delusions of persecution laboratory evaluation revealed normal Siddiq anemia and an elevated proacting level MRI of the head was normal. Vitamin b twelve deficiency was most likely to cause the symptoms that were seen in this patient vitamin b twelve deficiency can cause a range of neuropsychiatric symptoms, including psychosis personality, changes and affective symptoms. In addition to cognitive impairment. Divided. We fall a medicine and society article by Lisa Rosenbaum, though medicine can inure us to the extraordinary on a Saturday night about a year ago. Doctor Rosenbaum witnessed something striking a group of doctors on call for Brigham and women's hospitals. Shock team got on the phone to talk to each other. The team had been created for patients just like the one they were discussing critically ill with multi organ involvement in need of urgent decision. Making the doctors tried to piece together the man's story. Who was he before had his condition? Decline over a day or a month would mechanical cardiac support or extra Correal membrane opposite Genego offer a chance of meaningful recovery or merely satisfied the urge to do something. What would the patient want? And who if anyone could tell us after about. Twenty minutes with decisions and contingencies in place. The call ended Dr Rosenbaum's first impression what a remarkable interaction was followed closely by her second. It shouldn't be yet opportunities to collaborate. So seamlessly are rare. Indeed, the next morning consulting on a patient with critical Eric's to noses and an obstructing Billy airy duct stone. Dr Rosenbaum participated in a more typical chain of communication. Everyone was talking about how best to care for the patient. But at no point where they all talking to each other. Why when there are so many easy ways to communicate is fragmentation of patient care more common than a streamlined collaboration among clinicians. What are the barriers to better collaboration that could improve care? This essay is the first innings three parts series. Notch and non alcoholic fatty liver and fibrosis a clinical implications of basic research article by Stephanos Romeo from the university of Goldenberg Sweden. Non alcoholic fatty liver disease is a complex condition involving the progression from simple status to inflammation, non alcoholic statal hepatitis and then to severe fibrosis and Pata cellular carcinoma, which are the major predictors of death in patients with this disease in parallel with the recent rise in obesity, the incidence of non alcoholic fatty liver disease is increasing however at present there is no approved drug treatment that specifically targets non alcoholic Seattle hepatitis notch. Proteins are a family of receptors involved in cell differentiation during embryo Genesis notch. Proteins have also been implicated in metabolism. A recent study investigated the inhibition of notch signaling as therapeutic strategy against fibrosis caused by non alcoholic fatty liver disease. Although under normal circumstances notch signaling is abolished in Pata sites. After differentiation, the authors found an up regulation of this signaling in the livers of persons with non alcoholic fatty liver disease, and in mice fed a diet that induce non alcoholic statal, hepatitis importantly, down regulation and ablation of notch signaling in these mice resulted in an amelioration of liver fibrosis down regulation of notch signaling represents a candidate therapeutic target against fibrosis in patients with non alcoholic fatty liver disease. Brazil's fight against hepatitis C universalism. Local production and patents at perspective. Article. By a Lisa different Seca from Sao Paulo business school Brazil, the emergence of new direct acting antiviral drugs has revolutionized the treatment of hepatitis c virus h see these more thanksgiv- and better tolerated drugs allow for curates exceeding ninety percent. The price of these new therapies, however is prohibitive in many countries, so creative strategies are needed for ensuring access. Brazil a pioneer in the fight against HIV. Aids is now at the forefront in addressing h see an estimated seven hundred thousand people in Brazil are living with hepatitis c in two thousand seventeen in keeping with the World Health Organization goal of eliminating h c by twenty thirty the Brazilian ministry of. Health ensured that fifty thousand patients were treated the decision to follow the most current treatment protocol available was made possible by innovative approaches to cost containment the ministry of health has adopted an incremental strategy for h see the programs started with patients with severe liver fibrosis and co-infections and expanded over time to encompass the entire patient population. When preparing to purchase substantial quantities of h c medicines to expand treatment the ministry of health. Demanded that commercial prices be lower than international market prices. Brazil has also made substantial efforts to enable local production of generic versions of Safafa, vir. And more recently declared is fear. However, the ministry of health ability to take advantage of this supply source is complicated by ongoing conflicts over. Masud ical patents. Universal medicine access through lump sum. Remuneration Australia's approach to hepatitis C, a perspective article by swear moon from the Graduate Institute of international and development. Studies Geneva Australia's approach to providing direct acting antivirals for patients with HCC suggests that under certain conditions. Innovative approaches to payment can remove price as a barrier to access in Australia. Medicines on the national formularies are largely paid for by the government in two thousand fifteen the authorities negotiated an agreement to spend approximately one billion Australian dollars seven hundred sixty six million dollars US over five years in exchange for an unlimited volume of direct acting antivirals for H CV from suppliers. This approach has been called. The subscription or Netflix model and the state of Louisiana announced in January that it was pursuing a similar approach for H CV is this unconventional approach. A good deal for Australians these authors used publicly available data including data from Medicare Australia to find out even in the more pessimistic estimate. Prices still fall far below those paid in similar countries. The lower per patient prices are a central benefit of the Australian approach, but they are not the only ones payers benefit because Australia can offer universal access to direct acting antivirals with certainty about the cost to the public purse the benefit to patients and the public is that all who need the medicines can receive them lump sum. Remuneration for innovation may be an effective underused strategy for achieving universal access. Reducing unfair out of network. Billing integrated approaches to protecting patients a perspective article by Mark hall from Wake Forest school of medicine. Winston Salem, North Carolina. The emergence of health plans with narrower provider networks has been hailed by some observers as a positive development arising in part from more competitive market conditions. Brought about by the Affordable Care Act, but the inclusion of fewer contracting providers makes out of network treatment more common which exposes patients to substantially higher out of pocket. Costs a health plan might offer. Either no coverage outside its contracted network or coverage that is subject to higher deductibles, and for only those charges that the plan deems reasonable the ACA mandated caps on out of pocket spending. Don't apply to out of network charges. So the resulting costs for patients can be financially ruinous. However, high charges for out of network care are demonstrably unfair. When health plans have inadequate networks. And when patients are treated by providers. They don't choose there is widespread agreement that patients deserve protection from out of network billing in these circumstances, but state and federal regulators and private accreditation groups that set network adequacy requirements have found it challenging to protect patients without squelching desirable market dynamics, the pin is streamlined dispute resolution. This approach requires health plans and providers to submit to binding arbitration, the determination of whether out of network bills are reasonable. Our images in clinical medicine features a three year old girl who presented to the emergency department after she had ingested a metal pendant. She had not vomited and had no pain in her chest. An x Ray of the chest confirmed a heart shaped foreign body in the proximal veracity Qasaf Agha's ingestion of foreign bodies are most commonly reported in children one to three years of age ingested items that warrant immediate and discuss removal from the Asaf Agha's include sharp, objects button, batteries and foreign bodies that have been present for longer than twenty four hours. Asymmetric children who have ingested items that do not have potentially dangerous features may be observed without intervention to allow the foreign body to pass spontaneously in this patient, the position of the foreign body appeared to be unchanged on repeat radio of the chest. The patient was taken to the operating room to undergo rigid and ask. Skippy and a gold heart shaped pendant was removed. Reinspection of the Asaf Agha's showed minor abrasions of the Asaf ajilon Muchota after the procedure the patient recovered. Well, and was discharged home. A sixty four year old man presented to the emergency department with a two week history of worsening shortness of breath. He had been in good health previously and had not undergone recent surgeries or had periods of prolonged immobilization the oxygen. Saturation was eighty four percent while he was breathing ambient air and the blood pressure was one hundred fifty six over one hundred three millimeters of mercury. A physical examination was notable for swelling of the right calf and electrocardiogram showed extreme right axis deviation and t wave inversions in the lateral leads CT of the chest showed thrombosis in both the right and left pulmonary arteries as well as a linear density in the right ventricle trans the Rasic echocardiographic confirmed the presence of a six centimeter thrombosis in the right ventricle. See the video at any J M dot org. Duplex ultra. Geography showed extensive deep venous thrombosis in the right leg the patient underwent surgical from back me, which resulted in reduction of an extensive caught burden. He did well post operative Lii and was treated with a pixel van at a follow up. Visit one month after surgery his oxygen saturation was ninety four percent while he was breathing ambient air, and he had improving exercise capacity. This concludes our summary. Let us know what you think about our audio summaries, and he comments or suggestions may be sent to audio at n e j m dot org. Thank you for listening.
Organization of African Unity founded - May 25,1963
"Creed an obsession lie at the heart of the feather thief, a page turning account of a museum, heist, that reads like a classic crime thriller, the feather thief dramatically recounts, theft of rare bird, feathers coveted on the black market. The man determined to possess them at any cost and the surprising history of commodity once worth more than gold declared absorbing by NPR and fascinating by the New York Times the feather thief is now in paperback wherever books are sold. This day in history class is production of iheartradio. Hi there, while them to this day in history class, where we sift through the artifacts of history, seven days a week. Today is may twenty fifth twenty nineteen. The day was made twenty fifth nineteen sixty three the organization of African Unity or a Hugh was established in. Addis Ababa Ethiopia. It was formed by thirty two countries with the goal of promoting solidarity between African nations and ridding the continent of colonialism, the OAU has its roots in pan-africanism, pan African ISM is a movement that grew to prominence in the mid to late nineteenth century that emphasized African Unity and collaboration among people of African descent, African leaders, like Donna's qua- may in Krumer Kenya's, Julius Narendra Guineas, say, Sekou, Toray, and Zambia's Kenneth Kaunda promoted pan African ISM. The oh, a you was established to deal with continental issues in post, colonial Africa. There were three ideological blocs emerged. On the continent in nineteen sixty and nineteen sixty one the cost of Lanka group, the Brazil group, in the Monrovia group, the CASA Blanca group supported full continental integration, and it included Ghana Mali Guinea, Libya, Egypt, Morocco and Algieria, the process Ville group, advocated for a gradual approach to unification, but remained tied to French interests, its members were, mainly former French colonies, including Cameroon Ivory Coast. Mauritania finna gall, Madagascar, and other countries. The Monrovia group favored, a gradual approach to unification and a loose association of sovereign states. It included Sierra Leone, Nigeria Togo, Ethiopia, Liberia, and the Malia among other nations. The idea of continental organization was based on the desire for. Federation of African states or a United States of Africa, pan African congresses were convened, and at the fifth pan African congress in Manchester England in nineteen forty five there were calls for an into colonial rule in racial discrimination for independence of the African continent, and for economic advancement in nineteen fifty eight the first congress of independent African states was convened in Accra Ghana. It brought together leaders of nationalist movements who advocated for African solidarity. Five years later in what has been called Africa's unity year representatives of thirty two African governments gathered in oddest above us to sign a charter for the show as you. So a you became operational on September thirteenth nineteen sixty three when its charter went into effect, the charter said in part that the heads of African states, the governments were quote, inspired by a common determination to promote understanding among our peoples and cooperation among our states in response to the aspirations of our peoples for brotherhood and solidarity and a larger unity, transcending ethnic and national differences. The charter also said they were quote, determined to safeguard, and consolidate the hard, won independence, as well as the sovereignty and territorial integrity of our states and to fight against me. Oh, colonialism in all its forms. Member States were made to coordinate their policies in politics diplomacy economics and other areas. The charter also provided for the sovereign equality of all Member, States, non interference in the internal affairs of states respect for their sovereignty and territorial integrity, the peaceful settlement of disputes and the emancipation of dependent African territories after decolonization the Cold War, and the end of apartheid in South Africa. It became clear that the OA you was not entirely effective in its mission to create a prosperous and United Africa, practically a United Africa is hard to implement in the OA. You had both failures and successes. It made progress in decolonisation and development of international law while it didn't not do so well at bringing peace instability to the continent, or meeting, the demands of globalization. In nineteen ninety nine heads of state, and government of the OAU issued the search declaration to call for an African Union that better address the social economic and political challenges that Africa faced, the oh, a you was dissolved in two thousand and two the African Union which focuses on Africa's development and socio economic integration replaced, it some of the aims of the African Union are to promote and protect human rights to promote peace security, instability, on the African continent to promote sustainable development and to encourage the participation of the African diaspora in African affairs every year on may twenty fifth Africans and people in the African diaspora celebrate Africa day, a holiday that commemorates the founding of the O a you and African Unity. I'm eve coat. And hopefully you know a little more about history today than you did yesterday. You can follow us on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook at T D H, c podcast. Tune in tomorrow for another day in history. For more podcasts from I heart radio. Visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey guys, today's episode of this day in history class is brought to you by dressed the history of fashion, there over seven billion people in the world. But we all have one thing in common every day, we all get dressed. Join a fashion historians April Callaghan and Cassidy's Acharya twice a week as they explored the who what when and why of what we wear fashion history is about more than just pretty close. This is a podcast for fashion and non fashion lovers alike. And that's because this show shines a light on why the clothes we wear matter. You can find dressed the history of fashion on apple podcasts, the iheartradio app or wherever else you get your podcasts.
Were Literally Fighting For Our Lives. A New Political Movement Emerges Outside Puerto Ricos Two-Party System
"Brought to you. By the so-fi daily podcast reaching financial independence starts with having the right information every weekday morning so fi keeps you up to date with important business. News stock market happenings and how they affect your financial life search for s-o-f-i s. o. f. I wherever you get your podcasts. We're literally fighting for our lives. A new political movement emerges puerto. Rico's two party system by mariah spotta alexandra. Maria figueroa miranda spent days counting ballots after the contentious november third election. But as a resident of puerto rico. She wasn't counting votes for donald trump. Or joe biden she and the millions of other americans living in the commonwealth can vote in. Us presidential elections despite their contributions to federal taxes and status as us citizens. The question of puerto rico's colonial status and how best puerto ricans can exercise their rights as american citizens has been at the heart of every election on the island in recent memory including this one for the third time. In fifty three years. Puerto ricans voted in favor of becoming a us state in a non binding referendum on the ballot and elected a new governor from the island's main pro statehood party. But for the first time a constellation of new parties that attracted large numbers of younger. Voters could signal a new direction for the territory entirely. We're literally fighting for our lives. Says figueroa miranda founder of la clara political youth advocacy group. These elections have been so important. Because for the last four years we've been improvising. As a country for decades puerto ricans have faced a series of competing economic and political crises. But in the last four years things have gotten worse student. Strikes over austerity measures the devastation of back to back hurricanes irma and maria destructive earthquakes a climbing fiscal that and the local impact of climate. Change has brought the island. To a crossroads many puerto ricans blame the territories to party political system for the current state of affairs for the last fifty years. Control of the island has swung between the two dominant parties that represent competing philosophies on the future of the island the new progressive party n. p. which advocates for full you statehood and the popular democratic party the p. p. which favors retaining the current commonwealth status now. Several smaller parties are gaining popularity with younger. Puerto ricans who've watched multiple bungled federal responses to disasters and aren't necessarily interested in becoming the fifty first state they're touting alternate visions for the island that could bring greater autonomy and improve economic conditions such as seeking full independence from the us or becoming a sovereign nation in free association with the us like its relationship with the marshall islands for the newer generations. All of their live. What they've seen is puerto rico in an economic recession. Says so. Pull the carl. A lawyer based in the washington. Dc area who engages with the federal government on issues of puerto rican self determination. They've seen the very awful response from the federal government after hurricane irma cain maria and the earthquakes. We've had a feeling that. There is some kind of transition happening in puerto rico especially with young people being more anti statehood while fifty. Two percent of the island voted in favor of statehood on november. Third turnout was relatively low. With only about fifty three percent of eligible voters participating the n. p. p. which spent millions to include the issue on the ballot after attorney. General william barr refused to appropriate federal funds for the plebiscite heralded the outcome as a victory for the statehood. 'cause but many see the referendum simply as a political tool for the party to get supporters to the polls and questioned. Whether the results reflect what most puerto ricans actually want to see happen irrespective the viewer positions on statehood for puerto. Rico to say a clear majority of puerto ricans support statehood is factually inaccurate tweeted new year rican researcher and filmmaker. Andrew j padilla days after the vote the island needs to come together and create a process and determination that can really garner a true consensus of the population. He later told time. The election also delivered a slim win to the n. p. p. which has held the governor's seats in two thousand. Sixteen critics have accused the party of mishandling federal emergency aid and the party's members have regularly faced corruption probes. Last year hundreds of thousands of puerto ricans took to the streets to demand the resignation of the scandal plagued n. p. p. governor at the time ricardo raw ceo who eventually stepped down this month. The npp's pedro pierluisi won the gubernatorial race with thirty two point. Ninety three percent of the vote the lowest support of any winning governor around the island while the ppv candidate trailed with just seventeen thousand fewer votes. We see small margin of victory is indicative of the growing support for parties outside of the traditional system including the puerto rican independence party the pi p. And the newly registered anti colonial citizens victory movement. Cv vm and anti corruption project. Dignity parties more voters came out for the three together than for the n. P. p. n. p. p. d. accounting for nearly thirty five percent of the vote. The new direction of the voters from these parties was also able to historically gained six seats in the house and senate of the legislative assembly of puerto rico now the p p. which comprises the majority of the legislature will likely have to work in tandem with some minority representatives. Moving forward those who went to the polls ready to say goodbye to the. Mpp are disappointed by the outcome in the eleven days since the party won reelection and npp lawmaker has already been arrested by fbi officials on corruption charges thousands of uncounted votes from various precincts were found days after the election. According to the new york times with some alleging the ruling party is involved and n. p. p. representative on their election council has since denied. These claims asserting that the party is prioritizing a fair election the times reports figueroa miranda of la clara also blames the n. p. p. for that and other election irregularities like other young puerto ricans. The twenty-seven-year-old has grown wary of the territory's political system and isn't confident in the official results. I'm scared that the numbers don't represent what actually happened here. On november third she says as puerto ricans combat the island's extreme financial troubles with millions going without power or running water for months at a time. Many have tried relocating to the mainland. Us the island's population has been steadily declining for the last decade and hit a new low after hurricane maria and irma in two thousand eighteen for supposed to the lawyer in washington moving to the us after going to law school on the island not only offered a better future. But the chance to advocate for puerto rico. In america in twenty seventeen in the wake of hurricane maria sepulveda co-founded bora unidos and la diaspora a network of puerto rican professionals. That have been lobbying congress to implement a serious self determination and decolonisation process. Puerto rico status has been a disputed topic in washington for several administrations in twenty sixteen congress and former president. Barack obama passed a bill known as pra mesa. A plan set to tackle the island's looming debt crisis through a financial committee that oversees the islands budget reference colloquially in puerto rico as the junta many on the island have been critical of the oversight saying it fails to address the unjust conditions of their day to day life during trump's term. He called the. Us territory quote one of the most corrupt places on earth and made it clear statehood for puerto. Rico would be an absolute no for him. If the current mayor of san juan carmagnole lean crews remains in office he and crews began feuding after she was critical of his handling of hurricane maria including his infamous tossing of paper towels into a crowd of hurricane survivors. In two thousand seventeen last month former interim governor wanda vazquez of the npp endorsed trump for re election. A decision that could have potentially helped the incumbent gain momentum with the latino vote in florida where more than one million puerto ricans live now is president elect. Joe biden takes office. He's signaled he'd be supporting statehood for puerto rico and has proposed a comprehensive recovery plan for his administration to deal with the island's issues. Sepulveda's grew back the puerto rico self determination act that representative nydia velazquez and representative alexandria. Ocasio cortez proposed in august. Which would start. Negotiations between congress and body of representatives elected by puerto ricans to come to a decision about the future of island status the bill which was not endorsed by the pro statehood n. p. remains in limbo as the committee on natural resources has yet to pass it to the house floor. Though they did not publicly say why they didn't back the bill sepulveda's and others suggested may be because they want to remain in control of the statehood process democratic representative. Charlie crist representative. Darren soto of florida. A state with a rising population of puerto ricans have said they will introduce more bipartisan resolutions to the floor in support of the november third referendum's result but with no clear sign that congress will be weighing in. On the many issues that puerto ricans face anytime soon. Many feel like the future of the island is in their own hands. You cannot wait for government to help you says sepulveda's solo blow salva. I'll play blow. Only the people save the people.
Chagos Islands: Africas last British colony?
"This is the code and in depth look at one new story from Africa every week. But costs from the BBC World Service are supported by advertising. Food Edgy all. Through change when you take somebody out of their home, it's not normal. These people need to be judged. We came here but we didn't know this place who were forced to come here in a boat were being abused were facing difficulties. It's not to normal. It's is something very wrong up. It's often assumed that colonialism is a thing of the past. And the conversation now on offline has shifted to decolonization take, for example, the ongoing movements to decolonize different aspects of life by literature beauty standards. But for some people actual territorial control over the home nation still very real. This is the story of the. Islands known as Africa's last British colony, I'm Kim Chuck Annetta, and this is the cone BBC World Service original podcast. This is the cold. The calm the calm. The cold. This is a story about justice sovereignty identity and the long running battle over a group of tropical islands in the Indian Ocean. It's called for chair goes archipelago made up of more than sixty islands which were home to around one and a half thousand people. Those people that Yugoslavians were also forcibly expelled from the islands nearly fifty years ago and they've been prevented from returning home ever since. I'm talking to the home family. You heard John F for the start of this episode he was born on Diego Garcia the largest island of the archipelago and was a young child at the time of the expulsion. Too Young to really remember. To understand the whom he left behind I need to speak to his mother Lorenza. Rental is in her seventies and has agreed to chat to me over the phone from a house in the Seychelles with the help of an interpreter. High Lorenza. Indie Halloween deal could you tell us about your home in Chico? OSC, could you describe it to us? Q. Roller. Our home was very happy. Their life was fun. My house was touched and I had a well just outside I had work I had food I went fishing was we all my children and hundred animals chickens? Spend the first twenty years of her life and goals. And we she recalls the islands. Now it sounds pretty quick. If you were working round the island. Someone who's never been? What would you see? You would see rays sharks, and on the land you would see a lot of birds and coconut crabs. Then there were the people even there was nobody around in my district could walk to the next district and always find someone bear. By. Of Lorenza misses the way that the community would come together for. A Saturday job I love Utah. Traditional dance where men and women move to the beat of a drum heated on the bonfire. Everybody came from which. Every Saturday until sunrise on Sunday morning. Didn't you on the island with Kreis you'd take flower, you turn it, you steer it, and then you would cook it on a hot rock with fish. You'd get octopus sometimes Rayo total. Phone Days We. Lose. Our life on the island was very happy. For example, I didn't think if today was Wednesday or Thursday the day of the week didn't matter I was just happy every day. More, guys. To Cuba. Lorenzo tells me this. She sat in her house on my island in the Seychelles nearly two thousand kilometers from the whom she's describing. And how did you first hear that you are being affected? Who told you? Not My husband said we are going to leave the island. I told him I'm not going but he said we are all going sushila struggle Sian everyone's going. I ask Him who said his and he said he heard the Mauritians talking about it. What happened after that once they'd heard that these fictions were were happening on. Garrick. Even. Though I wanted to cry I couldn't cry. To hold it inside because I had to take care of my kids clothes. Couldn't even wash them properly. Just them on a line and they have to wear it over. Every day until we left Mr Maxell the islands administrator told me there's no work for me because we're going to leave I ask him where we going he said I don't know. But. The room is abruptly became reality when boats arrived ready to transport the to goes away. How much time did you have? To prepare to pack up and go then. A short amount of time quickly quickly, you have to pick up your rice became your oil all in one day. I, left my bed and my sofa and a cupboard I just didn't have time. These were pieces of furniture that Lorenzo really loved. Family. But in the rush she had to leave behind. A truck came for our belongings but I forgot some stuff and then there was Mike. I used to plan cabbages and chilly how to leave it all behind. What did you say to your Children Lorenzo? I said to them we're going to go children. We said, mom, where are we going? Before they knew it the PM family were on the boat and along with hundreds of they neighbors there were sailing away from the only home had ever known. Array lunar reporters on board call the Noverre under the deck. It was full of people in the end we slept at the top with the horses. Their father was even nearer to the horses and the horses were chewing his hair. He had a lot of hair. Why were you sleeping alongside the horses? Was it just that the poet was to packed and crowded with people leaving the island? The birth was full. There was no space below deck. Now reflecting on what she left behind. Says most upset about the graves of her family members including two of children who passed away before the fiction. I was very sad when I thought about my father's burial site eichweide. Did you understand. Why you would being removed from the island. Over, now, no I didn't know what had happened. What had happened thousands of miles away in London, was the fate of course, islands had become a bargaining chip in negotiations over the independence of Mauritius. The Shakers archipelago was originally an inhabited. The islands were discovered by the Portuguese in the sixteenth century and it wasn't until nearly two hundred years later that the first settlers arrived. By the late nineteen, sixty s when Lorenzo is there with a young family, the islands with part of Mauritius and had been under British control since the nineteenth century. But malicious was seeking independence. And although they said that they wanted to keep the Jayco silence Britain told them that they'll have to give them up all the main under colonial control. After a century and a half of British rule, the Union Jack was being lowered for the last time on the island in the Indian, on nine hundred, Sixty, eight Mauritius was granted independence. This moment they had waited. For the road of the huge crowd magician policemen voice to the. Flag. Avenue. Independent. Mauritian nation. The celebrations fate of the Shakers islands was quietly forgotten island in the sun was now free to decide its own district. Independence. In the next five years, all of the inhabitants of the goes archipelago forcibly removed. But the story didn't finish their. Because Mauritius has been fighting to win back at sovereignty over the islands promising that it would allow the scenes to return. I. Love. How Much Sick Sanders, the lawyer who's represented Mauritius in his battle to win back the occupant. I really really care about this issue they say that the UK. Kept islands in the first place. So, why did they what the UK told the Mauritians back in nineteen sixty, five was they needed the archipelago for communication purposes they did not tell them that they had already concocted a deal with the Americans and they did not tell them that that deal would require him to remove all the inhabitants of the Goshawk Cappella. Go to the four corners of the world. In fact, the UK's deal with the US, allow them to use one of the islands Diego Garcia which was the p home family's home as a military base for defense purposes. and. When Philippe says that the locals were sent to the corners of the world. He's not joking some settled in Seychelles others and Mauritius and other still in the UK. This is essentially about an Anglo American alliance really truly like intensity sensually about the British at a time of decolonisation wanting to hang onto something which they could give to the Americans and in doing that they were willing to sacrifice the local population. And this is a detail that is particularly distressing for many people. All of their dogs gassed we'll if they dogs from dogs were gassed that Yugoslavians that I speak to nine quite a few of them. I, want to go back the ones I know remain distressed. Although, only one island would be used inhabitants of all of the islands of force out we also speak to the UK government, but they refuse to give us an interview they said in a statement successive governments have expressed sincere regrets about the manner in which associations were removed from the British Indian Ocean territory in the late nineteen sixties and early nineteen seventy s on sovereignty over the islands they said, we have no doubts about our sovereignty over the British Indian Ocean territory, which has been under continuous British sovereignty. Since eighteen fourteen, we stand by longstanding commitment to cede sovereignty of the islands timorous when Turtur is no longer required for defense purposes. So they say that they will give up control when the islands on no longer needed for defense but we move that be and what is it about the chain of islands that make them so important to the U K anyway. One man who can definitely help us understand this is James Landale he's the BBC's diplomatic correspondent has been covering the eagles dispute for years. Why is the checkoffs? Go. Sue Important for UK and US strategic interests it's just this extraordinary resource militarily essentially it's sort of unsinkable aircraft carrier for the UK and the United States plunked writes in the middle of the Indian Ocean there's a natural goon for ships to come to be re pads to. Pick up few It's good for submarines does not really long runway. For the Big Long Distance Bomas. The argument that the British government makes is to say look. This is a place that is used to promote British interests to take part in military conflicts that that happened from time to time. They also say it's very useful for intelligence gathering. It has lots of listening posts there. So you know they would say it's a has a role in the fight against terrorism. In recent years, it's used it was used as a base when the British and other countries we're trying to tackle piracy off the coast of Somalia and things like that. So that's their argument that it's incredibly useful just to have that strategic base on the other side of the world. Sin. Why do the other islands also have to be uninhabited despite not having basis? Well. That's not entirely clear. There's been discussion about this. Over the years I've heard arguments about you know security that it'd be too difficult to have some island is there but not in other parts of the islands there's also I think the question of sustainability is it possible to live on some of the islands? There's been some debate about two. Miniature questions still want to go back and happy to keep waiting for whatever time the UK finds. The islands are no longer required for defense. One of those campaigning Pierre. Prosper he was born on Peres battles, the second largest island, and is now the chairman of the. Committee. Of Seychelles. We left when I was still baby. My parents actually came from Seychelles in the Wednesday on contracts to one, but they love the place a. Because they got close to the community that any says Tarez. They held identity couch in the attachments into waiting ladies, That's what got me really interested. Many. Really Saad Story. And really got me interested and felt part of this hold off the whole fight because I was born there to the end of the day. P I was actually able to make visit back to Paris battles the island of his birth accompanying a group of journalists in two, thousand and six. He finally saw the House that he was born in. For, me it was very, very, very emotional. To see especially, the things that my parents told me where they're on that specific place where I was born. Outside, you could see some all remnants of things start my parents left behind. US to talk about his big old tree, which is abundant training still of course began. Describing, cows being. And like water tanks and furnaces, even the remnants of a Church Hospital Exactly describe it to me. Actually Wendy left my father wrote or Noel Leaving House for the last time the time to Dayton five of us. That was in seventy three and you go six steel written well, nobody touched it. The UK has said that it will support a program to allow. You to make brief trips like this called heritage visits to the island. But they've previously claimed that permanent resettlement would be impractical. When this government themselves abutted give 'em wasn't for fifteen a detailed sorrel assessment of physically t. came out that it was. By the end of the day, the molly violence out population said it for several decades and he thriving populations. And they have everything state would need the shock with signs hack exactly the same thing as molly violence. Of course, you will need viability end support, and within the current Brady twenty expectations of any population. It's a lot of work. I mean the communities having separatist photos such a long time. To help cohesion between the Mauritian groups, shows Google's in UK. And because that's a racial is not our fault you still have that basis of being defies cushion. Cohen. So, but it starts with ourselves to have that cohesion. Not all. I want to return him Lorenza and her sons say now they've been in the Seychelles for so long they can't imagine starting all over again back in Diego Garcia. But the twenty fifteen independent study commissioned by the British government funded the majority of the in community did want to return and made it clear that temporary visits would not suffice. For Peer and those fighting to return it's never felt like a fair fight. We have to deal with a huge while taller for nations. Totally, ignoring, always finding ways to fos to stop off us to Louis Z. tried a motivation or. Sans off. Season six, sixty ups. There's a strong sense of injustice before. The term was looking for. We've Hod. Em's thing. At one time saved. Sorry. What was? But the sorry is not enough. People are still hurting and that warned, is it open? The only re- 'cause we have is goal. LICO. So we asked them to see us as a people. and. We're not going to stop also every avenue we how we're going to meet in aside and he's GonNa pass onto the people. So that brings us back to the decision by Mauritius to start international legal proceedings in two thousand ten. They went to the International Court of Justice sometimes known as the world court which Judy cates disputes between countries Marissa's base. It's legal case for their Ireland's on claiming that by separating but chambers islands from the rest. Of Mauritius. The you have already allowed nourishes it's full independence. His lawyer for Mauritius Philippe Sands again. The essential question was. Was, the United Kingdom entitled to Dismember Mauritius of which was apart in nineteen sixty five. That was the question that went and it's significant because it is Britain's lost colony in Africa. It took two years. The court's conclusion was unanimous. because. That the decolonisation of Mauritius. Wilson contacted in a manner consistent with the right of peoples to self-determination it follows that the United Kingdom is continue with administration of the archipelago constituted wrong full act according international quarter justice decides that the decolonization of was not lawfully completed because the United Kingdom unlawfully dismembered the archipelago in nineteen, sixty five it coerced the leaders to reach a supposed agreement that agreement has my force and the consequence. Of that said the International Court of Justice is united. Kingdom must leave the archipelago as soon as possible given a deadline with him in May Twenty nineteen the UN General Assembly voted by overwhelming majority. The United Kingdom must leave the Chegos occupant go by the twenty second of November two, thousand and nineteen. It is a complete victory for Africa. It is a complete victory for malicious. It is a complete victory for the CHICA- Sean's. Compete victory. But that wasn't how the UK, sort? Again really wanted to speak to the UK government about this, but they refuse requests for interview. They said, the UK is disappointed that merges took this bilateral dispute to the International Court of Justice for an advisory opinion as a bilateral dispute this should not have been referred to the ICJ without the consent of both parties. This is an inappropriate use of the ICJ advisory opinion mechanism and sets a dangerous precedent for other bilateral disputes. And answer despite that victory. Nothing happened. While the UN can make legal decisions. It has no way to force countries to obey them is now nearly a year after the deadline and the UK still hasn't left. But is it a victory if the deadline came and went and nothing happened? It's a victory in law. It's not a question of whether the United Kingdom leaves the Chegos archipelago. It's only a question of when the United Kingdom leaves struggles archipelago. So it will change already United Nations is changing its practice. Sleep you take time out of your day to come and talk about this. Why does this case matter to you sandwich? The the. Case of the decolonization of Mauritius really matters to me because. It. Goes to the heart of fundamental right of a community. To be able to decide for itself, the conditions in which it will live. So. Long as the Chew Gosselin community is outside of the Chegos archipelago and some of them want to go back or the descendants wanted to get back. The right of self-determination has not been fulfilled. And her sons have made a new life online. Where they've been for nearly fifty years, but it hasn't been easy. The rest of Lorraine's is family ended up in Mauritius while she followed her husband to the Seychelles. So when her mother-in-law kick them out, she had no one to turn to. The family sought shelter in the forest until they were finally able to buy land and build their own, house? whose son olden still angry at the way they were abandoned without assistance. It's like you've taken a chicken and you put it in a cage and you don't give it food or anything, and is just there how do you want to lay an egg if you don't feed it even after all this time, the feeling of homesickness has never really left and is shared by many of the new generation of. Exile including Lorenzo Sons. And so old and given that you have lived most of your life in the Seychelles is the. Home to you. Know it's not my native homeland. I don't feel like it's the right island. It's not the island I was born on problematical. Jones rousseff where is home for you? From Wall may home for me is Diego. That's where was born. That's my home. That's my place. and. Thanks for listening to this episode of the. If you're already caught up of all the comb episodes. Thanks for being a superfan really appreciate it. If you're still getting to know us, they are plenty of other episodes for you to listen to like a recent one which explored whether artificial intelligence can be racist and how to fix it. Next week we are looking at traveling on an African passport, the good, the bad and the mind boggling that's on our next episode. This episode is produced by Mary Heart the sound design is by Marco Oriental. Pierce Lynch is editor it's presented by me Kim check. knitter. Archive kipps, courtesy of the International Court of Justice and push pathway. Special. Thanks to Carey's fortune who don't sing a filmed choir and caroline top zoo glue for they help with this episode.
83. Chris Newell Forges The Snowshoe Path as the First Wabanaki Leader of the Abbe Museum
"Welcome to museum archipelago. I'm Ian Elsner. Museum archipelago guides you through the rocky landscape of museums. Each episode is never longer than fifteen minutes. So let's get started. Chris Newell Remembers Visiting the Abbey Museum in Bar Harbor. Maine as a kid, his father was hired to put on educational performances to perform songs about their past Mikati language, history and culture at the need of market and the native American Festival hosted by the museum. So every summer, the family would drive the two and a half hours from their home in MMG, Look Newell, look forward to it year after year with an almost giddy level of excitement, but even as a young person, Newell could clearly see the difference between the surrounding events like the native market and the festival, which will run by members of the WAB, Inaki nations and the museum. which was not back then the Abbey Museum was more traditional ethnographic collection, a lot of weddings and things like that, so when it came to the museum itself, and did feel very much like inclined museum was Barbara Institution not necessarily allow mackey institution, so I definitely felt a lot more connection to things like the vessel, native American festival in those, because those were neater run and be supporting them, although I knew what. I knew the special collection I knew the shredder, and they have as far as the history of mind. People's by able as well as I keep. People's in general, always been attracted to wise available in the Abbey. mcdonagh's as a child I felt it was different spaces today, Chris Crystal, a possible quality citizen is the first member of the watanake nations to lead the Abbey. Museum high money. My name is Chris Lual and I am the director of Education for the. Educational Initiative also CO founder and I'm also the executive director and senior partner. Donations for the Abbey Museum in Bar Harbor. Chris! Co founded the ADAMO. Educational Initiative in two thousand, eighteen with Donna Spears DNA ob joy, chickasaw Choctaw and Dr Jason Man Cheney Agamal is a pass quality word for the snowshoe path at the beginning of winter. The snowshoe path is hard to find, but the more people pass along and carve out this path through the snow during the season. The easier it becomes for everyone to walk together on episode sixty eight of this show we interviewed spears about how the initiative was born out of their experiences seen colonial museum practices across present New England. So, what do we mean when we say colonial museum outside the context of Colonial Williamsburg of course, this kind goes off of my colleague Don from. Who was on the museum archipelago before museums are colonial artifacts. The idea of a museum comes with colonization and tribal museums, even in their own right are using that colonial artifacts. As a way to present her native histories, only doing different in tribal museum in a non tribal museum, largely consists of the American conservation movement which started in the nineteenth century, and when came to museums, and especially the way museum content was created colonial museums would oftentimes focus on tribes that they felt at the time were less impacted, which would have been Western plains tribes in South Western tribes so if you go into a non-tribal museum that. That has native content Colonia Museum. Then what you typically see is a presentation of native cultures through the Lens of anthropology and archaeology and a lot of those voices, ninety nine percent of those voices, especially in the past were non native voices that were framing that lends and hot of you are cultures, and so it's not uncommon to see things that out place, so to go to northeastern museum that has a collection and to see only planes. Or only question. Pari and no Wolpe Martino. Ashland basket is really kind of an old fashioned way of presenting things that goes back to a motive, thinking really originated in the idea that native people were going to vanish at one point and that we needed our history saves by an outside force, and that's literally well. The Columbia Museum represents is that mindset and the Abbey Museum is rooted in that. Mindset opened in nineteen, twenty eight. It housed the collection of native American. Objects gathered by radiologists Robert Abbey in a purpose built building. Newell was hired to lead the Abbey Museum in February twenty twenty. Four lockdowns due to cove nineteen began, but the decolonization process had been going on at the museum for the past five years. The Abbey Museum has gone through the fast five years under the previous executive director. The President CEO at the time cinnamon. Caitlyn the good I the colonization, process and car that. Not just in the content of the museum, which centers need voices now, but also in the structure of the way the museum is run in the has overtime restructured as board to become a majority Ebina Keyboard so Columbia Museum that Presents Lab Aki history. We are probably the only museum that has a structure where the voice of the people that we are representing is now centered, and is also governing the institution itself when the change of directorship happened, the museum changed the title from President and CEO to executive, director and senior partner to the watanake nations as part of this decolonisation process and the shift of power the. Tribes today are five times asking. Scott. Avenue tribes in the history. There was over twenty drives at one point, but currently there are five tribes. Nike is an over arching for the cosmetology of the peoples. Tribes in the beliefs and stories. Of Being Liska created on people from Yash reason gave us the name weapon. Aki, which is the anglicized version of impassioned twelve naccache wish would translate to the people of the dawn collectively. That's how we see ourselves. We we understand that we are the easternmost tribes on the consummate, and we are all connected in that way so when it comes to that portion of my job, I take very very seriously. No Book, right? There's no example to follow I think. The museum world and the lack of representation by native people in the museum. World is a history of the reason why that is by what I always tell people is that it does not do us any good as Nina. People to be absent from these spaces, no matter why these spaces are interpreting our cultures in our histories and everything else. Therefore, we need to be present there. Eighty five percent of native people were in in the museum field as an entry level services are security and very few of us. into the intellectual leadership positions in what I want to do. In the long run I would love to see the Abbey. Museum have a full AKI staff I mean that would be the easiest all I could actually have how do that I. Need Department the Communities into the museum world that way the always feels like a welcoming space to any of the community. Community members from eleven communities in Maine and beyond newell acknowledges that encouraging members of the watanake nations to work at the Abbey Museum can be an uphill battle because of the racist history of museums like it. The way museums in the past have done things like hold onto native. American remains. That has you know on the older generation would not go into those. Those physical spaces because of that the Abbey Museum is one of the places where we have repatriated. All of those remains were making into a welcome space and some big change for the museum world, but even outside of holding onto human remains. There are many examples of how museums default. Colonial mindset can in addition to everything else lead to a worse visitor experience. Experience as somebody that used to work in a tribal museum, it was not uncommon for me in that space or anonymous visitor whether child or adult to ask whether the tribe that we were presenting the history of still existed. There's a lot of people in this world that still saying that Nina. People are all dead in Gombe oftentimes reinforced by their childhood. And their adult experiences going into a colonial museum, seeing artifacts that are only from the past or seeing are only from the past, and so for museums to update or colonize the way they present themselves. They really got to get out of that mode of trying to save a vanishing Culture Barroux either host, the art in the history of the living cultures exist. You're now one of the easiest ways to tell if you're visiting A. A colonial museum is if it doesn't ask you as the visitor to normalize some aspect of the culture presented so an Abbey Museum experience that only features maps with modern day. Political borders or is entirely in English is not doing a good job of presenting the culture that members of the wozniacki nations share two-dimensional Master, or so you're in duration or creation people, the world in a different way, and we use songs Wong songs in. Our territory, but if you go into the while, we did was we did create a tune dimensional map all our Nike territory, but we took out the roads in the cities and all the colonial borders, and then when you see the landscape, that way represented in that fashion, you see how it all makes sense. Howard tribes existent the river ways that saturated our territories in all of those things, and you can see how people travel. Ray distances how they will imported. Imported from one river to another, so it also is going to enrich the spree in four the non Lebanon visitor, because they're really gonna be able to see our perspective and our worldview in our language, and the way we view land, all of those things, not an interpretation, but rather a first person perspective, which is really really a powerful and impactful way. Bar Harbor Maine is International Tourist Destination Cruise ships dock there today. The museum's exhibits and science are mostly in. In English, but Newell hopes that under his tenure much more native language gets incorporated to the point where a non watanake visitor will have learned some native words before they leave. The museum gets rid of the implicit bias that colonial museums have been feeding for so long. When the early English would arrive on the seventeenth century, they will used the word improvement as a reason for taking over in doing land building things like arms, permanent housing, but nowadays in in America. America we used a word development to do the exact same thing, but when we used that word development, what we mean is were about to dig up a big clock of that life giving life cycle, and we're going to do something build something, but really the process involved destruction first viewing the landscape through the different languages, really easy a window into the different mindsets. The use of language I think is probably the best bridge that I can draw for making all. When an English speaker learn some of our language, and learned some of our world view through it, they have experienced something, and so for the Non Native Museum Visitor, the international visitor up income through and learn our world through our language into how normalized to have the bathroom signs to say skied up in in instead of men's and women's. International signs, but they would learn some of our wording and profound experience as nul says there's no book and there's no guide for the process of transforming the Abbey Museum. From colonial traditional ethnographic collection into a fully decolonized museum, run by members of the watanake nations, but because of work like this, the snowshoe path becomes a little easier for other museums to follow. We want to be informative to anybody that walk in through the door, but we also want to be informative. Key person, and then by also doing that, the people who already know. Come into a space that uses their worldview then it doesn't become bar harbour institution to keep visitor anymore. It starts to become a home away from home. We are in the land of the dog, no matter what and so. Visitor should feel that sense of welcoming one walking into that space. This is really passion of mine, a passion that was born out of my childhood watching my father. You know, make a difference in this world, and that's what I would hope to do. Leave a lofty goal. Of my future in that I would hold that by the time I have done with with this world that I have changed for the better, not just really good web, Inaki people but for everybody. This episode of Museum Archipelago is proudly sponsored by a beautifully foolish endeavor, a brand new book by Hank Green Ivan, following green for over a decade I on his excellent WLAC, brothers, Youtube Channel, and now on his podcast, attracted by his humanistic approach to the world and to science education, a beautifully foolish endeavor is a sequel and conclusion to his first fiction book, an absolutely remarkable thing, which is the story of a young woman thrown into fame during the global crisis of. Of contagious streams and mysterious Robots Library Journal's review said through this adventurist, witty and compelling novel Green Delivers Sharp Social Commentary on the power of social media and both benefits and horrendous consequences that follow when we give too much of ourselves to technology. The book is out July. Seventh Twenty Twenty in physical audio in the book form wherever books are sold, or you can just go to hankering dot com, thanks so much hankering, and a beautifully foolish endeavor for Sponsoring Museum archipelago. You can find a full transcript of this episode and links to other episodes at Museum archipelago dot Com Museum archipelago is supported by listeners like you who have joined club archipelago on Patriot. If you can't get enough about how museums shape, our lives join now for two dollars a month. If this is your first episode, subscribe to the show for free using your favorite podcast player, and if it isn't leave us a rating review. And next time. Bring a friend.
How Britain Accidentally-On-Purpose Colonized The World
"My new pod is dedicated to all things fraud. Each week I sit down with some of my favorite comedians talk the hottest hoodwinked greatest Chris and Dube's double crosses comedians like Nicole. What's up y'all I'm lacey mostly and I love fraud hoodwink hoaxes swindles and double crosses which is why I want to tell you about my new show scam guided the subject more or less boils down to why there isn't a British empire anymore one more time that is why there isn't a British empire anymore that's also patchwork map of the entire world and within a few decades of that point they were suddenly not running much of it at all in a in a actively is a senior lecturer in British imperial history at Queen Mary University of London and the two of them have enormous expertise on this enormous subject person so I took the opportunity to bring him onto this episode because I feel like it's exciting to talk to British people in Britain isn't that Nice it is and I talked to further exciting people from there owning territory sense and that's weird that's a strange phenomenon in history and so I wanted to learn all about it and and build an episode out of us finding out especially on this episode of the Podcast one of Dr Charlotte Lydia Riley She's a lecturer in twentieth century British history at the University of Southampton the other is Dr Kim Wagner because broadly here's another way that I think being alive is more interesting than people think it is we live in a world where about one hundred years ago the the website I don't think they do you should get on that use scores basis beautiful templates and twenty four seven customer support to have a beautiful always functioning website? That's just right for you. I was recently in London for the London podcast festival last week we released the live episode that we did it that fast and this is sort of a bonus episode here in the US what's going on with that because in my American education it didn't really come up as soon as the thirteen colonies broke away from Britain they were aside character for him it's all about adding thirty seven more colonies you know what I mean they're they're states but you get it and so in addition Adam weirs I am joined by two phenomenal experts service to set up your personal site or the site for your company or your writing or your photography or your De role playing character does your druid and idea that we interrogate a little bit because there is sort of a British empire still but to the broader point of it at something that we could spend a hundred hours talking about and adamantly sham pyre ruled a quarter of it a both in terms of territory and population the British empire covered about a quarter of the world in a very sort of odd for the overall process of sending me to the UK. Because I don't just take one show when I go to a whole new country come on there's such exciting people to talk to everywhere one of the folks in the UK I decided to talk to is Adam weirs he's a cracks writer editor columnist and more you've definitely seen his byline on the site if you read it and I'd never gotten to meet him in hey there welcome to another episode of the cracks podcast the podcast about why being alive is more interesting than people think it is my name is Alex Schmidt and I'm the head of podcasting here at cracks he's experts were very very kind to do just one with me you know 'cause I know they know more than this and they shared so much of what they know in digging into this doc hello technologically savvy person yes I'm talking to you and since you're so technologically savvy ghetto website already get on with squarespace they are the best sir subject this episode will also be food note heavy especially there will be a very basic simple rundown of all of the different places that were part of the British Empire do you do it had to squarespace dot com slash cracked for a free trial and when you're ready to launch the offer code cracked to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain. I'm not very familiar with that in really broad strokes they controlled an enormous portion of the continent of Africa a an enormous portion of South Asia also what's now so this episode is about how those places became their own independent countries kind of all at once in a way that's very different from how the United States became an independent country long before them Malaysian Singapore the city of Hong Kong and certain other cities and territories in East Asia and also many islands in the Caribbean Belize. I guess I'm just listening it will also draw a bit on the psychological impact of a country doing that process and how it may relate to certain current events in British news today and Oh thank our anyway Australia New Zealand Canada and a few more things that I've failed dimension so it was an enormous empire at that height about one hundred years ago today thank you all so much for diving into what is one of the most enormous topics in think that's enough setup for it so please back or stand at attention outside Buckingham Palace because again I I addressed you last week and you keep it up this week you're just standing like one of those palace guards and somehow you have headphones in there I really I really commend you because that probably makes that job less boring good job and either way here's this episode of the craft podcast history and time and everything and it is the British empire and how it went away to Kinda give us some grounding in in the initial stuff to look at from what I've read about it and when I get the sense of it hit its biggest size in terms of territory and people and everything else in the nineteen tens and then by the nineteen seventies initiating the clam almost an ownersh meaty champ and I am also also enthused about being new places I think of it as an opportunity I think it's really neat and with Cracks Zone Atom weirs and Dr Charlotte Lydia Riley and Dr Kim Wagner I'll be back after we wrap up talk to them history British slavery is such actually after the American Revolution British slavery in the car being continues a very high rate and a very kind of motorists and deadly right the American revolution as sort of a weird outlier where it's a British colony that broke away long before the nineteen hundreds is right on it seems like all of the rest of them yeah I think it's as large as territory in nineteen twenty seven which is the point at which Britain is given control of the German colonies that they lost in the festival does it's east it just just not in North America especially in a pre easy communication era this was an incredibly difficult empire to run it must have been a lot of just just you know six or so decades later almost all of it was independent and and I know there's a lot of detail in there but is generally accurate is generally right empire means a greater was almost kind of psychological way to handle we just lost this enormous colony how do we feel good now independence sometime in the twentieth century there it is it was really quite important in the Senate signals a turn to the East is after notes given to people on boats was the entire system yes you can see the expansion in India for instance it's supposedly guided from London but soon it's been more than a year during which time politics of change New Territories have been conquered some have been lost it's not it's not an email you on so within fifty quite substantial political decisions they can do that because of the distance from London that's all fascinating and and then in general with knowing about this this period there's all sorts of ramifications in terms of European to European rivalries that sort of percolate all over the world the betsy should still obviously even after the five minutes receiving it we're talking about big bureaucracies as well wow at least in Africa as as in particular Britain's kind of expanding its colonial controls because of distance by the time that an order has been sent to India and a reply has been sent back perhaps clarification and then an auto reply the you about Africa the role of the man on the spots at which which obviously is a man always becomes very important because the man on on this boat has to be able to make decisions as to be also the American colonies said the British really become involved greater degree in India for instance so there is the loss of part of the empire it was more assigned to something else so with regards to India was the book about Gandhi we did not cover it's really any kind of broad sense we did not cover it all it was when he was a discussion of you know as much as this is supposed to be coming from the Metropolitan Power has to be delegated to people who you know a chosen in their role as either explorers will try discipline art curious spot Adam as someone who went through I assume regular school in England that's not what it's called but you know what I mean when I was in high school or twenty years ago on the spot and he can either you know succumb to the tropics illness in the heat only can you know in a sense Foch's own destiny there's a lot of they reach that kind of high point actually taking someone else's empire ask like movement of peak he can patriotism as far as I can tell until the end of this electric nightmare seven and on the end of slavery in the British Carbon Eighteen thirties so it still has that you know this still Britain is still very active to its west is mercenary actions going on we can see that the expansion in India in particular where Governor General's they almost single-handedly decide to make ed this extremely long and elaborate process system that will happen as far as like the average British person if if that is such a thing what do people learn about it I'm in particular about how you teach it so you can actually teach the empire which is you could say some positive thing that's level of freedom but it also I learned that was that was all we knew was and it was even like I think one of the earliest jokes on cracked dot com was Australia's dangerous animals and former prisoners that's the just because they are expected to be able to make decisions on behalf of the British crown in the British government how we know the heroes of empire is sort of the discretionary powers of man really just the hits does Jay Kim Britain that children at school study hitting on the Henry's Cheetahs Hitler crumbling an genocides because people they get each other's throats so he's a very celebratory yeah our countries are so alike so trade plus the French the French aided the Americans during the revolution and so the British turn to India to fight the French there as well Thoraya level courses on decolonization for example that some students will take in schools it conversations national conversations are hard still about there we had a big fight about it thing by ending the slave trade and anything said against the empire is diminishing the Piat wow yeah American revolution annual thirteen you in college as the ones that you take after they break away in Britain still has a very substantial Caribbean presence and obviously all will will to unwind it was talking about Australia was usually in relation to like sending prisoners transportation because those are the highlights in how everything emanated from Britain and people did go out and an end civilized world and then look what happened once they left which is as you have all these failed states is the correct comes been updated so is it is a subject that gets covered but it's more of an elective teachers to discuss it's not mandatory what parts of the curriculum and then as you expect the Tories came out and just kind of lay into there's a good line here at well you know you've been so proud of the empire for so long and we abolish slavery and all that but you know you forgetting the slavery that went before you polished right which is the day were at that point need the largest of slaves like those three occur in slave trade walls we did schools in my school children Britain would study this slave trade in some capacity but often they study the how Britain ended the slave trade so how wonderful humanity take narratives about how terrible empire wasn't Oldish is offline we need to we should be celebrating Britain's pass that often is the way that the kind of conversation goes dry has got better is not actually that that useful of that when we talk about teaching children about imperialism the national conversation always becomes you know this to be lefty teaches very unpaid out kind of collective shame comes up quite a lot so the idea I should be ashamed of the employee should we apologize for the empire which is not really it's not the right question historically you're actually criticizing people's sense of self identity or the tally is perceived so it's a very complex I think in measurement love language around if you have apologizing empire as well which comes up law an answer when people start talking about the need to teach children schoolchildren move at empire is questionable the whole bit and that was all we knew that was actual curriculum yeah oh no okay it's gone that's here in Houston professor at the University of his Co. Anglia which looks at the National Curriculum textbooks and talk to a means that some kids come out of school quite a particular takes on the old conventional narrative about how how Great Britain was arena charity Pooper to most of ending the trade what how wonderful William Wilberforce was for his campaigning against slavery and they don't necessarily interrogate very much how it was Britain was able to end this I've tried of identity and history we will food note the article you picked out of what that MP and it's like near world stuff for America like there's there's you've history teachers and it was overwhelmingly but was being told was not biased towards empire it wasn't these all the it does seem like in both countries it somehow everyone's present day identity is that in the past people in our country did something amazing we feel but even then and that's where unfortunately historical facts they get left by the roadside or thrown under the bus because it's not about facts about how people feel and so when you say rapidly scaled down before the world wars and in that sort of peak imperial period you mentioned Kim why were they bothering to colonize all these places what were as we look at the British empire going back to that as sort of basic idea that I think I think most Americans especially just don't know that it grew to this enormous size and then so this from an MP who responded series and he said it is incredible the Jeremy Corbyn aspires to be the leader of the country and apparently so ashamed of Yukon guy with a different flag pin somewhere in Washington DC right now as saying exactly the same things about what we did to the West and so on it's amazing and you're so right cam that I think it is a union jack so wherever British trade companies they operated alongside Dutch French Portuguese train companies all over the world they also it's factually wrong that lots or gets towards the students in the quantity state does is necessarily bad as study cannot years ago from he studied in British history classes I could speak for me I studied the Victorians chewed as we'll on world will too I know they're all different I know that's an enormous question but when Britain was going out in colonizing all these different corners of the world and we'll have a footnoted list of how mass at the end of last year because Jeremy Corbyn Li la party came out and said when he becomes into power which might be now on the way decidedly immediately thinking about being motivated by British power disease or by capture this might be thinking much more about spreading Christianity which is obviously kind of overlaid on very you know have been amount of territory was abd lower what were they hoping to get out of it in the first place first of all when we talk about the British Empire in singular that's a slight misnomer because he different things at different points of time I if we look at sort of the early beginnings it's a primarily trade but traders is never separate acute towards colonial peoples that you know that that kind of indigenous religions and cultures are naturally considered to be inferior to Britain and this is committeee's washout spent about two mos on the the empire about ten minutes and even if it is elected it's not chief also the the rationale for for establishing control in various parts of the world overlapping intersecting interests and then of course when you have other European so also economic profit but that is separate from national interests if you want these for instance in their flag they had rented Britain it was both of government on the official military and then also these private companies like the east India company if he talked about the sort of the most defacto by guys it was a fairly balanced look what's what's went on so the current curriculum was pretty balanced. Yeah that's what they found those that's good and so then and trading companies French for instance than during the eighteenth century you're GONNA compete against them not just financially in terms of trade but also politically so civilize Asian and civilization is inextricably connected to Christianity and so individuals involved in colonization might be missionaries who were going out who are not themselves the idea kind of uplifting these civilising these countries around the world but you can't pull them apart it it's not just that civilization is used as a kind of fig leaf to hide Triton's and employer almost incidentally in it if it means you can avoid taking responsibility and you can avoid picturing Britain as an a country which intentionally went up to build an empire traditional kind of historiographer of British colonialism which was that the regime was built in a fit of absence of mind is historian John seely along assay tests and it's about Britain being in top Dogan and controlling as much as possible there is a narrative at home and some people on the ground doing this narrative this about listen things it's the it's all kind of intimate and it's interesting that it's at least three or four things all at once because then it seems like it gives people a rationale the colonize it's actually quite helpful in explaining Britain's with some colonies Niassa land for example which is Modern Day Malawi which is a small relatively poor every Africa doesn't a company's not by the government by companies but on Kim says you also have kind of government interests that an an overlaying all of this is we were doing this trading we were doing this this civilization ours was too liberal Western attributes meant that we were working in the wilderness way and we kind of a master very he said that this was almost accidental the Britain set out to trade with all of these countries and he just felt abandoned up with an empire that covered a fifth World Service with eight hundred million people in it kind of a pattern a kind of pretend so if the idea is also something to do with civilization so whilst it clearly basically it's capitalism and it's about it the country that changed in the last twenty minutes but he came out and said that the government will make the discussion slave in colonials in black history mandatory it kind of happens because of other decisions that are going on we've talked about a couple of regions so far but with India in particular and when I say Andy I mean the nations on the coast and they have to get permission from local rulers in order to operate the way they do as late as eighteen thirties agents nine why would he becomes a crown colony as when did they first take land in a in a decided fashion early sixteen hundreds so centuries although I do think that there is a degree of truth in it in the sense there was no master plan steph nobody who sat down and said Okay we're GONNA establishment it's a complex dynamic which kind of spurs on this gradual expansion is interesting because on one hand the basic fact touch lead the law of the Empire is colonized India that also included Pakistan and Bangladesh and and then nearby Burma that is so interesting that as you both mentioned earlier pre- IT companies steered a lot of conversation and and in my in my googling and my reading it seems like India was first taken over by the east India Company and not by the governor the majority of the Prophet of these companies is derived from land revenue rather than trade so like like a like property taxes or something place has in one there's the trade the owners they're spreading the obviously superior religion because it's superior because look at this empire we're doing as they used to be really the company operates supposedly as a vassal of the Mughal emperor at these to the extent of the of the coinage right up to the nineteenth century although by that time that was the narrative for the British because it didn't cast them as being these kind of re patience bloodthirsty oppressive that was that tax tax revenue. Yeah wow these kind of things so you can see by then if it's no longer vowed spices in silken trade between Europe and the Far East a colony Islam ick empire that controlled a large part of the South Asian subcontinent and and more or less of matches the outline of what becomes British indie can enough itself be profitable to run and also one thing just in case people don't know what was the mogul empire the mobile imply was was the yeah and that empire is in decline throughout the eighteenth century which one of the reasons that the British are able to sort of fill that power vacuum that for saying oh well you know the natives wanted us to come all over we defeated the French groups we got some more territory here and there but I've got India country in the trunk Oh boy thank I thank hunting when you're hungry because she higher the way so it does have sort of half as aspect to the way that it develops over time but that then becomes a convenient excuse particular strategic importance not particular number materials and it in a region Britain is operating in those kinds of trade interests and things but it's not like Britain went out we're GONNA call him is this place you've been for very long time they are simply operating side by side with other European trading companies and they have snakes traits meant like just the east India company traded and traded and suddenly they took it over while this one way of putting it but yeah it was the eastern U. Company territory right up to eighteen oh buyer Paula Tompkins lauren lap is Jamie lavdas am honey checkout scam gotta subscribe now on Stitcher Apple podcasts all wherever you scam you're listening it's sort of us not stepped out of the House one day and just come out they are running everything they've assumed complete control but again it's almost as conceit that oh we we we just a trading company but at the time from eighteen eighteen thirty three I think the last mogul emperor is still a coin still being minted with the mogul emperor on the one side in these company on the side interest you never have a colonial power assumed control without substantial collaboration or assistance from local allies okay and the British races so they they weren't just so brilliant at trading and the military that they overthrew country also the country was sort of on a decline when they showed up and much of ritual of a reasserting colonial authority and the reason why I wrote a book about it because an Irish officer who was present at the execution took up the head allowed missionaries to operate up till eighteen thirteen but offset period of time with the rise of eventually you have a whole variety of reasons but the main thing is that the eastern your company has so far pursued a non-interference policy because they were interested in profit and trade so they have an instead of just being contended with collecting taxes they're actually trying to regulate how people they marriage very very basic thing I'm very private thing within countries and after independence when it really creates division but you governing a huge empire with very small number of people you have to be collaborating with people on the ground all of history but but that's such a juxtaposition of we will bring our versions of religion and marital practices to this country to to lift it up and then as soon as there's many many Indian soldiers were incorporated into the overall British military and even helped run at and Kim in particular you've got an amazing story that I believed an influx of of of sort of proselytizing sentiments but also attempt to actually civilized India the colonial state penetrates further into Indian society the French Empire is a little bit more directly controlled from France and is has has a slightly higher level of kind of control from the centre written rules through bolt immense brutality just really really awful is a really interesting dynamic that's one that's shared amongst all western imperial powers including America ONA's mutiny in Britain but the Indian uprising and for the reasons we've just discussed British rule completely collapses the moment that the local allies turn against him turn it into a Scotland took it back home as a trophy and I am today the Custodian of the skull trying to repatriate to India I know this has happened with empires across indirect rule they ruth ruth through collaboration relates they participate in policies they favor particular ethnic groups perhaps in areas which is huge problems over British rule in India's sort of hang in the balance within the British saying they suppressed the uprising in take quite brutal revenge an Olympic also suppression it's actually the the savagery in inverted commerce of the natives that forces civilized people to act like savages and they quite explicit in Houston meltdown to a book as well but about Alum Bagh yeah he was one of the engine soldiers in eastern company service rebelled in eighteen fifty seven June the big what's the was one of the thousands of of Indian soldiers were captured and he was executed by being tied to a Canon blown to pieces sort of fall my guy in that terminology so the breezy using engine type of execution blowing people from cannon co supposedly that's the only language that the natives understand is that the civilizing power is it provides a sort of complete moral justification for anything so when you do see the necessity full full full jason kind of coming in and becoming very very messy entangled isis of colonial rule and with the particular that is very interesting that that this is a nice benevolent endeavor and yet it is predicated on racialist violence and exploitation which somehow has class obviously being very important in Britain nineteenth and twentieth century means that the treatment of the Australian conflicts being sent to Australia for punishment that that's actually very so entire way of life is being transformed by British rule so Beijing fifty seven the engine soldiers say they rise against the British and for a few months during eighteen fifty seven Aniko Sifi slow resistance as well so that that both collaborating with kind of having to push against resistance from the ground is what is not very smooth and bringing them civilization so we have at the very heart of wisdom peerless we have the steep conundrum which is that it's predicated on the notion migrate to Australia. This enables Australia to maintain a very racist immigration policy on enables Australia to maintain a very brutal also it includes Australia Canada New Zealand it seems like those are government very differently in general I mean they are on in the sense that that that the white people early Canada and South Africa Australia and New Zealand are indeed treated very generally treated very very kind of humanity by the government of course within that there's a lot of Canadian fascination families in the kind of separated so that means brutality and all of those places is just doesn't look the same maybe as writing even a lot of the same places it's interesting because when Britain's going through decolonization the narrative is often that Britain's close diplomatic relationship with America means it has to embrace decolonization because the American is is mostly racial because it's because the British empire includes places like India in many parts of Africa where where there are there are all kinds of uprisings and wars and fights over at and it now that makes complete sense as I think about these Australian things in particular it sounds like maybe it's the most American style of all the places they are because pom Poms Australians cool breads to the ten pound poems game was an assisted passage scheme to Australia you buy cheap cheap tickets and go to Australia and the British government and you have increasing programs at the ten pound poems game which throughout the Twentieth Century encourages people to Emigrate Australia. I'm sorry ten pounds it's history but we aren't taught that in the US that like Oh our buddies Australia extremely similar trump quite recently right praised deal stadion raising our he reprised I've incredibly America has such retaliatory toward dishes populations separating children from their parents in the culture and then also explicitly racist immigration policies just by which children are taken from Australian indigenous populations which in in Canada as well with the residential schools schemes for example that's nation children are taken from many of the conflict so central Australia were being enough what we would now consider very minor crimes very kind of Casa clippings for stealing hosting food you could be sent Australia awesome missing dimension of of how imperialism is told and I am American historians also waking up to this fact now that America did happen in pint details in many ways is one reason that the British Empire has in very modern times slowed down or been less of a thing just because America kind of took that mantle up and imperilled policies and still has had absolutely we which is very explicitly based on inspired by the British Empire aw anti-imperial at American Anti imperialist over the quote unquote special relationship between Britain and America support for today's show comes from squarespace because they want to support beautiful templates created by world-class designers and the ability to customize just about anything with a few clicks suddenly boom it's the perfect druid T- fling website also your website showcase your work may be and I mentioned this before but maybe you have a DVD character who needs a website how will people know that you are a druid who is also policy towards its indigenous population what she should very badly who do not they don't get the right to write universal until nineteen sixties so on this the things like the price they want to build you a website so you're set up online everybody wins and everybody wins no matter what you're trying to do with that site maybe you're looking to start a new business maybe you're looking at and you might be sent for quite short for five years or something but of course you can't come back that's the first thing I take that the second thing is because all of these places have indigenous populations who treated extremely briefly but what distinguishes sandwiches from civilized people is set we've not savage right but then they force us to become savage as we are expanding explained away his also as they're in an overall process throughout the history and sound pyre where the particularly violent governance of places is eighteenth link which is a very interesting race for your class to be I think why don't you try that and then why don't you build them a website because here's how it would go you would get into squarespace right they would get I mean I had my childhood in America and we are very big on peer pressure it is a thing we do it sounds right around offer code also with the overall teaching of this the State Department was How can you be try as like this? The Americans a furious and they want Britain to maintain the empire because they say strategically important com slash cracked free free trial and when ready to launch us the offer code cracked to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain that squarespace dot com slash cracked we'll be optimized for mobile right out of the box so when people look on their phones right in the middle of the campaign they're like really you have a website for this character I'll see and then they will see and it'll look great they won't even have to leave the table to check also buying domains is very simple on squarespace I'm not going to give a sample domain for this druid deeply website because I don't want somebody to take get before you do think of the thing you want to call it and then buy it with squarespace and you'll have a website that's easy for people to find just by talking about it squarespace also American pirate spending they are anxious about newly independent states turning to America Alanthea's Nicole for example and not being kind of imperial stuff how much is American history taught in British schools in an embrace culture because I feel like in American schools that I was in we learned about Britain for earthy revolution US breaking away there was one footnote where he burned down the White House and then in World War Two Britain comes back in the picture that's about all we got from Egypt all the way to South Africa and also several counties in West Africa it seems like a lot of that African colonization was competitive with other European powers in there's people who are not druid T- fleeing such as designers lawyers artists gamers even restaurants and Jim's to turn great ideas into something real so it works for everybody had to squarespace sufficiently connected to Britain and America actually at many points asked Britain to maintain empire in nineteen sixty seven and at the end in nineteen sixty s when Britain decided to withdraw from east of Suez and I decided to withdraw it's this final bit of decolonization really decided to withdraw motives and military bases east of I suppose Singapore which was Britain's big that was the big thing we're going to leave and when George Brown the British Foreign Secretary guys to America say right this is what we're going to be doing the response participate European powers and you're paying colonial powers being Britain France Belgian the Netherlands little coach little is that you briefly immigration system when he was talking about children in cages say the parallels can continue I think since we're talking about how the British impetus toward American very is is a a Jesus paper something you might study at fifteen sixteen but that's that's amazing and so there's very little American history other than that civil civil rights here maybe I don't really think we did America Silverados yeah we like civil rights on will we like civil rights curriculum because it enables us to Persson is actually India Britain needs initially they need South African ports because sailing to India requests stopping off in South Africa in order to review too even beyond the way the rest of conversation was yeah so the quite unfortunate terminology for the initial measures Africa's the scramble for Africa in Eighteen Ninety five stories about how racist the American saw helps us to avoid thinking about decolonization or race relations in Britain because we can tell the story about civil rights in America Selma Tomorrow A to Africa because there was such an enormous part of the British Empire will have Adam Map footnoted but they had basically a strip of land there's a conference in Berlin whether European powers got together and people from thinking that the at this conference Seselj Drool over the map of Africa divided up they didn't do that they set up rules for colonization of Africa almost gone to war by accidentally invading each other colonies in Africa not realizing that wandering into each other's territory and say after eighteen hundred five suddenly the the West African ponies is weapons picking up slaves to the tight to the Caribbean where they are selling slaves filling up that ships with rum and the British empire it was like a special highlight and then of course the west African colonies are initially this this is Weber too slave trading happenings now maybe seek medical attention to pick up food to try before you can get India and then after the Suez Canal is built through Egypt dots much quicker you can go through the and as far as Britain is concerned very much between Britain France Belgium take the Belgian Congo which is enormous stretch of London in the center of seem to be trusted by mentioning it empire fell from Fatty obviously does Britain retreats from these places American pound moves into them and Britain is often quite resistant to homeless because anxious about and so they said if you're going to take a colony you need to display your flag and you need to really take it and this was because the a couple of incidences where Britain and Portugal and Belgium had accidentally just to the bull but also partly explains the apartheid system because this kind of contesting between the white British and white ball populations leads slave trading colonies which then become British colonies so that sort of explains this sort of regional patchwork of structure South Africa's complicated because the the Dutch settlers Africa the apartheid system and so that that has roots with the British that's not just I guess I knew it was also a Dutch comedy yeah yeah that's interesting it seems like a lot Ed how responsible to springfield for all that Britain believes itself to be the mother of parliaments Oh yeah card I suppose cut Britain's trying to build this Cape Town to Cairo thing they won't spend a railway they won't have Railway Cape Town to Cairo they wanted physical corridor wow Africa is important out of the entire world has a lot of its formatting and government structures to just the British either they directly set it up and it's still there or people indirectly imitated kind of animals do between these two groups and not in nineteen forty eight when boo population kind of take control of the political ruling of South Africa. It's at that point the British Carney rules which has been very kind of oppressive and racist all kind of formalized by the by the bull population intimate apartheid system the one thing we know in America about I of Egypt including sample which is the big canal there's the points and were everything everything east of that which which was the kind of it was what was sort of left it with mostly military Gotcha I'm bringing that back to Britain so that you have that kind of tranquil trade that so there's west African columnist Nigeria Gold Coast which when independent becomes GonNa doesn't often imperial borders because Buddha's between countries on on straight lines that geographic they go along rivers or long mountains and thanks straight lines are two countries sitting down announcing agreement which cuts across contested areas often imperial the British Messing in Africa are frightened of small states civil war yeah we'll farm policies cold war doesn't make nineteen forty five to nineteen hundred nine nine hundred ninety one maybe I want to loop aways back that is very good thing lovely that we have given the world through I mean it's still Buddhism maps which are imperial voters are straight straight lines on maps dependent on their it's partitioned into primarily Hindu and primarily Muslim areas and enormous amounts of people are displaced and there's a lot of trouble yeah the the establishment of the in India because ingest so fast but it's supposedly secular that border line was drawn up in a matter of weeks by British officials would never been to India before in South Africa the Bulls for for a long time until the one thousand nine hundred and into the twentieth century this to kind of rival colonial South Africa the British a big big states and said that unwilling to decolonize into small groups with losses mold independence movements they want big countries are not often causes love really have to claim the slums you have to go in there and you have to you have to put in administration you have to flag up you have to say why this is Alice instead of scramble for Africa becomes his fight phenomenon dislocation and movement of people something like twelve million people move back and forth between Pakistan twelve million hundreds of them the large space at all being one country or one thing being that lots of people who maybe don't get along or in the same thing because I as I understand it when British India becomes advanced placement. US history class and the test for it run by the National College Board happened before the end of the school year so then we watch some movies to fill out the rest of the semester. I'm so that is often used to create a narrative Webuye Dante was peaceful the independence movement was peaceful this must mean that decolonization was uh-huh and and obviously in India the economic section process the way that they do with border is incredibly it has a huge legacy as we the important the main problem of thousands killed displaced with that Indian history in particular I only I think the only time it came up in school for me was that I took small states are likely to be difficult to govern and that they might join Kotal context in particular that they might be Kinda pissed around with the easily and kind of went over by the Russians so they don't wants most fission of India resent his rise to Pakistan we she said avowedly Islamic state whereas India's supposedly a secular state there's still a hodge amount of Muslims and we watched Gandhi the banking's movie and I don't know I don't know if it comes up in school here sometimes the lessons of fish people cheese land from Gandhi often the Say You watch a straight and settlers after the initial process of convicts being sent that you know you have many more people are encouraged by that at that price has is being somehow peaceful being somehow connected to that it's one of the sort of conventional conservative narratives sort of the retreat from empire which was sensitivity left an orderly fashion that's simply not true British believe that empire to have been more humane than the other European empires fronts in Algeria they look at Belgium in the Congo. You'll often read narratives of decolonization including for example in the material that the Home Office provides citizenship tasks Portuguese bogged down in these brutal decolonisation whereas British who had close ties to the local population deep cultural understanding but you have to learn some British history which will talk about in Britain handing over power to the imperial subject the language at the time was very much they come of age so basically with some maps in a red pen today historians will described as the genocide what happens because the British basically pull out and you have a huge avoidance suppression of a Melon Pendants Movement the Mau Mau in Kenya from nineteen forty eight to nineteen sixty the British of violently suppressing the right thing you know about decolonization is is the Indian leader of decolonization believed in peaceful protest one it doesn't talk to her it'll being very violently suppressed by the British but also acknowledged period long periods of search for example the Malayan Insert what's known in Britain's insurgency which is over a decade of British the very righteous and understandable anger on behalf of Indian people it doesn't talk about the multiplicity of different groups of independence and of course the empire with the different grades but it will say interesting as a historian the same people now about Gandhi is nonviolent resistance I the thing about Gandhi Gandhi was peaceful Sammy Ross Yeah Independence Movement in Kenya with like huge numbers of casualties on some terrible human rights abuses people about them when we look at them as something different and we don't think about decolonisation but even though they have been at the same time they're quite different but even just the notion of colonial reforms in nineteen nineteen they have these these countries have become mature enough for self government and so they will have this handed it them and now often a lot of people believe in it we got to the point and we kind of mutually decided handsomely companies back which is now sort of white people people look at the Commonwealth today and they get very frustrated sometimes some of these countries all critical Brinson Tarini Through the Suez Canal income out essentially in the Indian Ocean occur but they need to control the spices notice control access to India in India being this thing the jewel in the crown mild reforms were considered as some kind of a massive loss for British prestige so much so much of what the empires about is it's almost a continuation of the imperial project itself like we have now civilized humans so we can leave you to it and there's a sense of friendship it is more democratic told me about it right so they believe the Ampato been more humane the British Empire to have been extracted less exploitative they look at uh-huh those interior walls or was it economization so this this whole really this narrative that person just sort of one day woke up and decided imperialism was now wrong is prestige we cannot be perceived to be weak and we literally have first petitions saying if we give in an island than they are going to demand things you know how can how can these countries these how ungrateful right we gave You Christianity and McHugh independence. That's a few from kind of his waves of decolonization very much because these racial hierarchies partly about Britain on its own popularity in Britain fundamentally is more democratic than friends right Chris sensually better empire than front can say you have I think India is very set process Indian independence by separate to African independence yes the first one did Britain with retreat an I see that completely undermines the role of independence movements often decades of sustained resistance to collision and often you know with their leaders being biggest one hockey please island yes yeah and also the Egyptian revolution of Nineteen nineteen so I mean nine hundred nineteen across point that's where we usually talk about the beginning of gene is by some considered as as some kind of surrender they're bringing people in one thousand nine hundred talking about colonial rule slipping through the fingers in India they famously ruled India using Indian soldiers in British service but that goes for all the colonies fairly yeah that's Potato Lieber Tha that shelly India with who given in Egypt they do that in Ireland so it is it is domino failures absolute Indian independence which Salaam leaving India because we're going to be driven out anyway and it was going to be another twenty years before Indian independence happened so so even very British African colonies become independent not munching fifty seven Goa coast becomes Garner nineteen fifty seven there is a Gulf coast independence movement which fights hard for this only very small she's a very long time coming and which comes after period of kind of promises on the British government reforms and then you have Indian independence at the end of the second mobile not to put too much input the first light to British population in Ghana the west African colonies for the British have very small kind of skeleton administrative kind of services there east Africa was different because East Africa I'm particularly am Rhodesia in Kenya another large white population settler populations Kenya is stitcher apple podcasts I guess southern Southern Rhodesia in nineteen sixty five the white population declared independence say issue Udi the unilateral declaration of independence eighteen sixty five until nineteen seventy-nine at which point in Nineteen seventy-nine the Thatcher government the new government has a negotiated Lancaster House agreement I state it seems like all of these happen all sorts of different ways and maybe the one commonality is that it's sloppy it's not it's either not thought through or they declared independence themselves from Britain apartment not the crown so they they keep the Queen as the head of state but they declared independence from Britain from episode opens really fast or or it's just not organized in a way that's very gradually thoughtful sending messy and there's a violence to it even if remember Rhodesia's named after a British Person Cecil Rhodes yeah he was a a rampant cleanliness and very unpleasant mom but the white people who were British to strength in Australia get to determine their informed policy that decolonisation I can't find America America declares independence then in West Africa because you have to do something with these people who are themselves really really resisting Nisa People White People in Kenya do number two decolonize and so it comes complicate dependence from the empire themselves and become this kind of rogue state very very racist essentially fascist state because they believe it will work out the best for them attended second mobile they get to choose and that that's what independence means in that context interesting but that's power being given to white settlers to do what they want with that rated un-islamic resistance Later and I'm the one that's particularly interesting is as of media which is present is and Bob Way even if this is decisions and start she's still this does violence to this right that the decisions and statutes in Nineteen thirty one which allow South Africa Australian they assume says democracy there will be massively outnumbered by black writers and so to avoid that happening independence and run essentially a very violent New Zealand candidate become dominions have power they're informed policy which is that that's what that independence is they have power over foreign policy in the festival will they have to go to war to support silence from Britain in the war of independence independence did they decolonize then like with the native block seventy they treat terribly and send the children back to England catch boarding school analysis large settler population which means independence decolonisation much more difficult American population consider that country have been decolonized like it it's interesting it's very messy and complicated did South Africa decolonize in nine hundred sixty one when they big historical work I read is a David McCullough's book about Harry Truman and a learned about just the existence of Clement Atlee from that and it turns the other people ran Britain in this time besides the one cool guy who's in the darkest hour movie and everything I figured Churchill was pretty pro keeping hey I'm I'm overstating we just learned Churchill is cool that's all we know there's a picture of him with a Tommy Gun that comes up it's very exciting the latest like in the US when we learn about like a British leadership and the in the middle of the twentieth century we only know about Winston Churchill say you learn about leadership in the twentieth century becomes the First Real Labor Party Prime Minister and ashes in period for is nine as the second colonial occupation of Africa cannot be decolonized the white settlers Kombi forced to go hi we'll give that property up and so there was this brutal and bloody civil war in Southeast Asia called the second Chimurenga for collections especially connecting the British empire with the American Empire like the what the the state of this colony or not is very very fuzzy all the colonial diaspora people living in Britain did lots of me at work with such movement for colonial freedom to loss of independence work with independence movements Clement Atlee in nineteen forty five always hunted either to Robert Mugabe's Likud party on a PF the most extreme example of British white settlers in the colony resisting independence where they literally declared imported as peanuts to grow peanuts from Jose's spectacularly unsuccessful but Jimmy Carter would never make this mistake so three colony we can I don't know if that's true or not but were there other people in leadership who didn't feel that way yeah I mean Churchill famously says I did not become permanent I did not become prime minister to see the decision love anti-imperialist we it's the conservatives who really kind of colluded an empire or maybe the Liberals Look of Chamberlain these people who who were imperialist where they're like we cannot just be one of these EU countries were so different yeah we have such go okay inflated self-important truly one of the king's empire I'm a historian of the diaper party of the left it would be very tempting to tell you that the left has always been anti-colonial and has wished it up to imperialism relations spoke nations when we talk about decolonization in I guess we could say yet Ghana nineteen fifty seven the greater state leaves and it becomes an independent country the fact that get the ringleader they run themselves they have foreign policy it went digital strategy calm less what's the moment when destroyed decolonize when tation with both parties I mean I a brexit has been on my mind as with many people so like oh Churchill and Johnson same party Johnson kicked the suicide attempting often the left in Britain has been very guilty of looking back over there in history and saying with a party of racial equality with party I try to resist it and I always definitely been politicians on the left to have been anti imperial people at Brockway who did lots of work with which is famous because it is so successful is just a farming idea yeah they tried to grow peanuts ended up producing fewer peanuts than I had bat imperial past and that imperial mindset is driving a lot of this exit situation today I don't know if that's fair to say or not yeah I think that would be bad negotiates or like when you have a bill that kind of stops near the brexit which would ruin the country that Tolkien as dots not talking you know we auntie imperial and in nineteen sixty the prime minister he gives the wind of change speech in South Africa. Saint Decolonization is coming to Africa is Harold Macmillan who is a conservative that because they are not committed to independence they do not know initiative crease independent democratic rule. They don't want because they are in the minority that quite large white population percents colony conservatives are super for Braxton Labor is somewhat for Brexit in some ways kind of it's a it's a complicated thing but I only bring us all up because it seems like they were they launched a series of surveys and colonial development initiatives the most famous of which is the East African groundnut scheme which is during peanuts in Tanganyika as our it's just it's just a bill it's a surrender bill and the only disagrees with Brexit is a traitor boy yes so it's not outweigh Churchill's descendants that's weird I believe at Lian Corbin Saint Party Labor there and then also I get the sense that both of those parties are themselves Republican left the Commonwealth or did they call nine hundred ninety four when Nelson Mandela having been out prison for years Elliott became the first likely to South Africa after the festival then a former colonies will come to aid we can be great again I think make make make Britain again act is actually what brexit off the world we still democracy in but we're also the underdog who single handedly defeated Hitler and who are now threatened by colonization by the okay does it tie in at all to when we were talking a little bit earlier about written feels like it just did empire and did government and democracy better than other European countries is sort of a similar the Swiss or something Swedes Germans re bites I mean this is tied into second world friendly relationships they using war metaphors alert the narrative is that the house is somehow colonial power for pretend this has been very distaste does the trying to get away from the shackles the triumph become this swashbuckler in empire they were back in the nineteenth century they wanted to be free it's not true the best can be summarized as make great again Great Britain great again on all the people talk about this Lee before Britain Brittany design independence price says Britain will garage was talking about Britain's celebrating Independence Day on the twenty third of gene which was the day of referendum not Steph is what this was a landmark speech indicating that that colonies would start to be independent Britain would not allow white settlers to to visit through the sort of crisis of identity that is expressed through brexit which is we should we all rightful place manifest destiny is not Frenchies Hon and so so we're both an underdog and supremely powerful and I think that that's actually speaks exactly yeah I don't mean to pick brandon leg America barely wants to be part of just a world where like we're not just a country of any kind of guy you can see it's another language it's the idea that you're losing sovereignty to your opinion and this is somehow particularly shameful because it wasn't Britain wasn't defeated through Britain like willingly handed over these powers Oh yeah this is a weird almost schizophrenic conception of of Britain poised on the brink of brexit which is we used to rule is to talk about brexit it's nuts you don't see Boris Johnson and Theresa May and all the other associated toys talking about Oh we're going to go with us. After the fall of France before America entered the wool before Russia such and Britain Britain stood alone against Nazi Jammie alignment with five hundred million can you know there's been a lot of anxiety around sovereignty and your opinion is about loss of sovereignty which kind of in a bites hard if you are a country that believes you are the mother of parliament if migrants crossing in eastern European border and it was notable that the picture was of Brown skin people moving across the space and Brexit is often framed around we want to return back to this moment what was that ise decomposition happened a number two became part of
Rough seas and safe seats: Caribbean elections
"Hello and welcome to the intelligence on economist. Radio I'm your host Jason Palmer. Every weekday we provide a fresh perspective on the events shaping your world. For months North Korea's leadership insisted, the country didn't have a single case of covid nineteen. At last Kim Jong UN has come out with a shocking admission that things aren't going well with the pandemic or the economy. That is a huge understatement. Be and last year Sierra Leone put out one, thousand, five, hundred and sixty six different sets of stamps mostly featuring dead white guys. For African countries, it's a tidy way to raise a bit of money from online buyers, but it's irking serious collectors. I up though. Today voters head to the polls for a general election in Jamaica. Last weekend, the two candidates appeared in a television debate to put their cases to the nation. And wholeness the incumbent prime minister accused his opponent of working to knock down progress. Could you come here? No. Manifesto. In twenty twenty that would destroy what we have worked for. The last decade. The opposition candidate Peter Phillips pushed back through eight years after independence Jamaica can. It's been a tough time for the region. In general, Island nations have fared well during the pandemic. So the Caribbean has been spared the worst. There have been recent infection spikes including in Jamaica since the beginning of the week Jamaica has recorded a huge spike in the nineteen nineties. Add to that the looming peak of hurricane season. Whoever takes the reins? In Jamaica as elsewhere in the region, we'll be navigating extremely choppy waters. The incumbent is Andrew Holness. He won in February twenty sixteen by the narrowest of margins but Caribbean elections these days than not about policy. They're certainly not about ideology Mark Wilson writes about the Carribean for the economist there about were you can actually achieve and carried out his major promise last time, which was to cut income tax and he seems to be seen as a good. SAFE pair of hands for difficult situation and who is he up against WHO's the opposition candidate? The other side we've got Peter Phillips. He's a lot older than wholeness. He's seventy as against forty, eight, fifty guard prime minister, and he's had a really tough year. He had to fight off cancer and he had to fight off two challenges to his leadership from within his own party. On the opinion polls, he is way behind barring a huge upset. It looks like a strong wind for the government and we've sort of checked in with election campaigns around the world during the time of the pandemic what has what has Jamaica's been like? Well it's completely shadowed the campaign Caribbean election campaigns and normally almost like a street carnival is huge rallies and motorcades and with the constituencies being small the candidates really trying meet every single voter in person if they can. There's been no big rallies it's been much more impersonal. There's been little spike who quite a big spike in the infection rate, which started a few days into the campaign on August in one, thousand, nine hundred, and that's put a dampener on procedures. It's kind of lowered the mood in Jamaica quite a lot as well, and so has that played into the campaign itself is is that a campaign issue? It hasn't really been a campaign issue. There's no kind of major over the government's handling it. Wrong. The government's handling it right But it's just something that has dictated the atmosphere of the campaign in thrown it right off guard you. The. Rate of infection is still way lower than for example numerical it's about one quarter of the US rate of infection. So it's not actually a particularly unsafe place to go just got very much worse than the last couple of weeks is that to say that the pandemic hasn't had much effect on the economy either no, it's had a huge effect on the economy the economy's heavily dependent on tourism and tourism. Just went out like a light in the middle of March. They reopened the island to tourists from June but people have not been coming in their normal numbers. So the arrivals figures have been about maybe twenty percent of the normal rate since mid June and not all of those arrivals have been what you'd normally think covers tourists many of them have been returning Jamaicans coming home family occasions that sort of stuff. That people who do come as tourists they've mostly been confined to the hotel property which in a big all inclusive like sandals resorts isn't too much hardship. But. They have not been going out to restaurants. They have not been going out to other attractions. So the whole industry is really really down at the moment. And what about the economic picture beyond tourism the other sectors of the economy have not been doing. Well, the second foreign exchange earner has been remittances from Jamaicans overseas mainly in America also in Britain Canada Cayman Islands. The latest figures on those in for a pro and they were down about ten percent on a year ago. The book industry, which I suppose number three earner is not doing very very well and the traditional agricultural sectors like sugar and bananas pretty much on shutdown. So the economic outlook is really very, very bleak at the moment although there's a certain amount of construction activity going on particularly around Kingston, it's not completely dead, but the foreign exchange sections of the economy are just. Pretty much out of it. And it is that a similar story across the Caribbean economies have been hit by tourism by dropping remittances. It's a story rights across Sicily, the tourism dependent economists, which is almost all of the islands. Thank Thomas. We weren't allowed to leave the room so we weren't able to obviously enjoy that or and then from there on out. Against Saint Kitts Barbados canceled US Martinique some of them have started to reopen to that back in tourists. They haven't all had the recent corona virus spike. So a lot of the smaller ones, Antigua's Lucia Grenada and few of those. There's about ten islands which have literally had just one or two new infections over the last two weeks, which is really not too bad. But the infection numbers have really spiked in the Bahamas in Belize and then guyana-suriname and Trinidad which not really tourist economists. So as far as the island that are very tourism base that have been hit very hard economically by by the pandemic, how do you see things playing out now? A big threat at the moment is the hurricane season. We already seen the devastating impact left behind in parts of the Caribbean, at least ten people are dead in the Dominican Republic and Haiti we're just going into the most active period of the season which runs through September into the beginning of October. And we see more storms so far though luckily there's been no major direct hit on any of the island so far. But if there is it's going to be very, very, very bad news with pandemic going on on one consideration is you can't possibly keep social distancing going in hurricane shelters you can troy, but it's not going to be easy and then after the hurricane. If. It's about one. You've got a long period with no electricity no water no phone connections supplies running short, and that is going to be a complete enough nightmare event happens and in the absence of of a devastating hurricane though how do you think that these these tourist based economy can can get kickstarted again. Where we're going is really a question for the medical research people nobody in the Caribbean knows the answer. Nobody in the tourism industry knows the answer. It depends how soon we get a vaccine and how soon the virus comes under control in the major market countries in North America and Europe, and also was in the car being itself. That's really what's going to count. Mark Thank you very much for joining us. It's been a pleasure. The August meeting of North Korea's Workers Party began as it usually does with rapturous applause for Kim Jong. But then the Supreme Leader told the party faithful the due to unexpected difficulties government had failed to improve the lives of the people or to meet its economic goals. And so a new party congress would be convened early next year to come up with a new five year plan. That raised eyebrows countries dictators aren't given to self-deprecation. It's very unusual for the North Korean regime to make Mrs about failure whether about the economy about anything else. Is The economists Seoul Bureau chief. So the fact that Kim Jong Pass these ads. Failed, to improve people's livelihoods alliott s very unusual indeed. and. The failure to improve people's lives as is largely economic in nature I mean, how bad is the economy North Korea? The North Korean economy was never particularly healthy to start off with, and then over the past few years has been made worse by economic sanctions. That are designed to stop the nuclear weapons program, but also have kind of knock on effects on the economy, and this year has been hit by a double whammy of the wettest rainy season years over the past couple of months, a terrible monsoon rains flooding devastated crops everywhere, and obviously on top of that, we've had the pandemic with North Korea. By seeing itself awfulness entirely. So one of the strictest quarantine regimes in the entire world at has that has that worked as it's managed to keep over nineteen under control. So north. Korea was one of the best countries and the entire well to shut down the bordon very soon after the initial outbreak in China and for months, the regime insisted the North Korea was entirely covered free those widespread skepticism about that claim in the outside world we don't know Fischel but in July that was the repentant defector who returned from South Korea across the border between the two. Countries and North Korea's us the opportunity and said, well, he's a suspected case of covert and the tests that conducted him was inconclusive Manson's then they've stopped claiming quite. So violently that the anti covid freeze, but they still have not it that they have any cases of that they've tested some people on the quarantining many. But what about those strict and swift border closures? How how's that looking now? With a few points over the past few months where it kind of looked like it was easing a bit. We got reports of trucks getting through Gannett trains getting through again, see where it's reopened. But recently time again until we know the board remains logic closed trade with China, which is the main trading partner North Korea hassle, but ceased during the fast soft the value four, the trade conducted between the countries was four, hundred, million dollars, which is a reduction of two adds approximately compared with last year. So essentially went from Berry to vet shooting nothing. So a a weak economy weakened further by by natural disasters of. One sort. What does that look like on the ground? When spring, we saw the fast results in Piang and the capsule, which is quite unusual because they tend to make sure all the people in the capital of wealth added looks good from the outside said the reports usually well-stocked shops that ran out for short of many consumer goods. They rationed staple foods like cooking oil though few reports of north, Koreans asking the foreign colleagues to by Scots items for them from trump's at the reserve foreigners. And the fact that it was that bad in Pyongyang suggests that is probably much less than provinces. We don't have any fast reports from the very few. But the likelihood that things a much west outside of Pyongyang where people can't see as very high. We've had the longest wettest rainy season for many years a tickly northwest province where North Korea grows a lot of rice has been particularly badly hit by the flooding. And even state media miss it in. August, the flooding was probably going to affect the harvest. And we've got typhoon season, which is just starting, which is probably GonNa lead to more floods. Everything is going to get less and so how much do you read into this unusual admission of culpability and amid all of these challenges? Well it certainly suggests to me that the regime is concerned by the devastation economic devastation caused to people's lives Kim. Jong UN it's been very keen to showcases concern he's gone and toward some of the flood-hit areas, he's been very down on bureaucrats. Embezzling Aid Funds and are not doing enough to rebuild infrastructure quickly enough. and has been the announcement that because the most recent economic plan that failed digging top party congress in January and announced new five plants the sort of promise that they're going to think about it and things get better in the future. So clearly trying to appear as the they cannot say they're really trying to help people and what about beyond the government? Is there any international support coming through in normal times outside of covert and whatnot humanitarian organizations from outside of North Korea would now be gearing up. To send water pumps and food aid to alleviate the impact of these catastrophes on ordinary people in the north and the efforts of never been straightforward because North Korea's very obsessed with this idea of self reliance. They don't really need the outside while they can manage on their own and the determination isolate themselves in the context of the pandemic. Makes it a little more difficult Kim on US despite trick office, a foreign help the stencil reason for that that's going to bring the virus into the country. Butler their other matches and The other problem is that because of the quarantined, the vast majority of foreign aid workers, diplomats have been forced to leave North Korea and the few who remain behind Abbad from leaving Pyongyang. So they can't really go and see what it looks like out in the field will visit any eight projects with do any on the ground wack I mean I. It's it's rare that a happy people story comes out of North Korea here but this does seem to be a confluence of of really bad conditions. How bad do you think this could get? This is a very challenging situation even by North Korean standards haven for the usual misery of the people have to do this less than your average bad year. It doesn't look as the s going to get quite as bad as what happened in the nineties off to the public distribution system collapsed and there was widespread famine in the entire country. So people on seeing that just yet. But it's just GONNA lead to sort of level increase misery over the next few months and probably couple of years. Thanks very much for joining US lineup. Thanks for having me Jason. For more analysis like this from our international network of correspondents subscribe to the Economist to find the best introductory offer wherever you are just go to economist dot com slash intelligence offer. Then, Hudson was one of the great. English cricketers a fine Batsman, a taciturn Yorkshireman he scored three hundred and sixty four runs in the fifth ashes test match in nineteen thirty eight. Adrian Bloomfield is our east. Africa. co-respondent. If you are cricket fan, you will know who lent Hudson is the Central African Republic. On the other hand is not a country with much of a cricketing pedigree. It doesn't even have a cricket team say it seems a little strange that in two thousand sixteen, the Central African Republic chose to issue a set of commemorative stamps to mark the centenary of Len Hanson's birth, and what's all the still the Central African Republic the only country that chose to commemorate the centenary of leading Hobson's Beth Niger did and so did maybe. That's not the only example of commemorative stamps did seem like unusual choices far from it. This proliferation of postage is infuriating the collectors of the serious stuff sometimes is also the anniversaries themselves. So it possibly, you can imagine you might mark the Senri of an international figure in. But. Why did Sierra Leone in January choose to mark three, hundred, ninety, five years since the death of young Bruegel the elder. Ten years ago Guinea-bissau, the two hundred sixtieth anniversary of the death of Johann Sebastian Bach this year Jim did the same for the two hundred seventieth anniversary So, what's behind this? Why are these countries celebrating these figures on on anniversary normally countries issue stamps to show off their beautiful countryside Beth were on the phone to celebrate National Heroes or landmarks but there is a rationale for printing stamps of long dead foreigners say if you wanted to walk into a post office in Bangui, the capital of the central. African Republic you would find it very difficult to buy a Lenhart and stamp what's going on here is that there is an aggressive cutting of the collectors market because there are collectors who will scour the Internet and they're going to be very happy to pay quite handsomely Orlando Hudson Stamps Modigliani stamps, and it's a handy way for poorer African states who might. Not have much of an international presence to boost their revenues and how long has this kind of thing going on? Is this a new trend? The has been this tendency to issue stamps for the collector's market for about seventy years according to a chapel is blake to the royal. Philatelic. Society of London, it started when decolonisation happened and accompanying America. Actually started to represent newly decolonized countries to help them with the postal services. But then I think some countries start to natives at this was a way of making money and I, and some collectors I've speaking to mark nineteen eighty as the point things began to happen I'm nineteen ninety one was the year of the wedding of Prince Charles and they diadema. A number of African countries issued stems to commemorate that and they start to notice that that did pretty well in the collector's market. But in the last year has there's been an explosion in this, and this is causing the serious collectors those who collect stamps for money as an investment to have kitchens, and why is that several African countries not just African countries one or two smaller countries like Vanuatu. For example, went to a Lithuanian based outfit called stem put Asia on them to design and print stems and the series collectors will tell you that Stanford has flooded the market with Tanto one collector said to me stems are very numerous and frequently awful. Sierra Leone last year, Chan that one, thousand, five, hundred, sixty, six different sets of stamps many of them. Showing long dead white men whereas India with a population of more than a billion people issue just one hundred, thousand, nine sets of stems. But what's the problem here if there is a thriving market for it and people are buying them and people still find whatever novelty they find in it. Then what's the issue that is exactly the case postal officials are to Sierra and he said people want to buy these. Stems, we're willing to sell them. It makes us money. So what is the problem? Why are collectors grumbling? What some of the collectors are saying is that it's cheapening the brand of these countries and also is it appropriate particularly in this day in age? So a lot of collectors will be finding stamps from countries that they little of and believe that those countries spend most of their time apparently celebrating those dead white men as heroes and say, there are suggestions of what is going on here essentially is postal imperialism. Adrian thanks very much for your time. Thank you very much indeed Jason. That's all for this episode of the Intelligence. If you like us give us a rating on Apple podcasts and see back tomorrow.
IndyCar CEO Mark Miles - The push for a third manufacturer
"Sport podcast today another interview with sports leader. Windy, because being in the news recently with an exciting new street rates for two thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, one announced in Nashville under the ownership of American racing legend Roger Penske, but the series on the iconic Indianapolis Motor speedway have the foundations of a strong future ahead. So what does that future look like I'm what are the threats beyond the current pandemic in the latest about Hashtag thinking forward interviews in decals? CEO Mark. Miles talks about the push to get a third manufacturer into the series and how. The sport will shape is digital future beyond many a television amongst other topics. Here he is talking to our James Allen well, listen. Thank you so much for making the time to join us for this Hashtag thinking forward today oversee Indiana's been very much in the news. Recently, they will get on to talk about your exciting new event in in Nashville and of course, the the five hundred you had recently, but maybe we could stop, could you sum up? You think the appeal of indicator to the audiences. Well I have the chance as you said in Nashville Tennessee yesterday and announcing that the indycar series will include a a street event in Nashville. Next year to answer that very question for me. INDYCAR racing is fast. We've loved the diversity that we race on ovals and you know super speedways as well as short ovals. We race on permanent road courses we and we race on temporary street circuits and I think that that diversity is really interesting and a great draw for for our fans. Were very competitive in that. That means a few things that means that literally a driver can start in the back of the grid and win the race and that's not something we aspire to see. It happens any number of drivers lead the championship compete in the championship serious contenders Little teams can compete with big teams and then on the grid during a race, you know it's wheel-to-wheel There's passing. And I just think that is always something we can expect today in in the in racing and so great. Great attributes of indycar racing. The other thing is you know our drivers. So we've got the same sort of mix from really outstanding young. Rookies or or young drivers and established veterans, and they go wheel-to-wheel and. About half the drivers are from outside the US Hafer from here. and. So I I, think we've got something for for everybody who has any interest in motor store Obviously. This strand is pulled thinking forward one. We think forward about Indycar from where we are now, we're in the early stages of the of the ownership. By penske. An owner obviously that really understands the US scene from having been involved in for such a long time particularly cars. My wonder, what is the Vision for shaping the sport now for the future? We'll. For now we're still very focused frankly on North America the US in North America, we've had opportunities to consider racing abroad. for now, I think the the answer to those increases. Now, we're going to focus on the USO drill down and really accomplish everything we can in the US market. We are already with all due respect to Formula One I think in the states where the dominant Open Open, wheel series and how and what more can we do that so that's going to mean. In the short term, we're not looking to see how many races we can have. We want to have been very successful events wherever we race. And I do believe that the announcement Nashville is pretends. great things for for the series an addition beginning next year. diversity is important to us. We we want to to be welcoming and extend. The invitation to be part of the series. To. Folks all backgrounds and not just as fans but certainly fans but also in terms of our hiring practices, our own procurement, and ultimately the composition of teams and drivers. So that's something that we're working on very quietly now but I think there'll be some progress and some. Tangible evidence of that hopefully next year. The car will evolve a Obviously, we want to continue to have real passing and great racing. but we'll also look at. The possibility of a at least third OEM. And that'll that's a challenge but it's something that Roger Penske I think is maybe uniquely in the world able to to To be successful in if if it can be done. and. There's some other technical changes that will that will occur I. Think. Not Not next year, not in twenty, twenty two but a few years out that take years to develop. So there's lots look forward to. It's interesting what you say about about manufacturers and Novice Roger Penske's position that because one of the things we're hearing from ladies discussing leaders throughout the series is to look at the participation of manufacturers in top level motorsport in the future because of this period, this Kobe period has been extremely difficult for manufacturers. It's very clear what the rationale is for manufacturers to be involved in Motorsport from a technology development point of view and honesty a marketing point of view. But do you see that rationale changing in any way and? Are. You concerned about the level of investment from manufacturers going forward as a result of of the twenty twenty crisis? Yeah. Well, obviously it's. Hard to imagine a tougher time to have that conversation. Happily, we've been working on it for a while. So there are a number of manufacturers that no our story and have been able to to watch our progress So I guess it's a bit of a speed bump. Kobe that is but You know, I, I don't think the basic premise is going to change i. think it is what you said. It's a development opportunity and certainly particularly in the US market, it's marketing opportunity and finally I think. The value proposition for INDYCAR is amazing. So I. Look at the cost. To be in a Formula One or to be in even, NASCAR. From my perspective on sort of CPM basis how many eyeballs get in front of the cost to have a team or to sorry to be a manufacturer with. Maybe a third of the teams I think it's a great value proposition and I think that. We've seen that being understood in our conversations. Speaking of CPM's of the digital piece has been very important for Formula One in its growth. Since since liberty media took over and in particular finding new audiences, it actually has a data point that fifty two percent of new fans since liberty took over are under thirty five. I. Wonder How he's Indycar setting strategy when it comes to finding new and younger audiences. Well, I have to say, I, think. Limiting media formula done a great job in that regard they've invested showing that it can work in they're having success. So I don't know that we're GONNA invent a new model will be going down that asked. You know we are. Beholden to to linear media in this country for most of our live race exposure I, think in the next couple of years the whole architecture will change and particularly with some many subscribers in cable. Leaving cable streaming is got to take on a much greater importance. In our primary market US LINEAR coverage will for for hot for I don't know how long deliver the biggest audiences but But. Streaming will have a more and more important role and internationally. As. You may know we we do believe that that will be true to some extent in a number of our key markets but for a whole lot of the world streaming is really our best opportunity and I think you'll see doing much more in that regard. Obviously racing started up in the US earlier than it did in other parts of the world coming out of the of the lockdown. Think Nascar first and then Indika. What was the response like to that and what's the outlook there in the US embassy you still suffering very high covid numbers. Yeah You know it was eerie for lack of a better word when we first went back are you know we canceled while when we were already in Saint Petersburg, Florida our first race? The things just took off the events caught up with everybody I think in the states. Net mid March weekend. And then it was the first week in June. When we raced we I came back in Texas on the oval there without fans and you know the focus was very much on. Keeping our competitors the people who have to be there in the paddock safe and we've we've touched. Would it's it's gone very very well, but it's it's not by chance the teams day in and day out when we're not at tracks and everything that goes on at detract since then since the beginning of June has been quite You know. Robustly enforced and That enforcement may be the wrong word because the team's really understand the importance of it if we can't get. The participants to the track safely than we don't have a series so But that's gone very well it continues to be a focus. It will be for the rest of our urea three more racists left two of them in Indianapolis. when the fans I started coming back then you go through this next phase of. Kind of how weird it is to have a relatively small number of people in the crowd. And in some of those races like Road America and Mid Ohio last weekend where they're largely wooded campgrounds. However many people you have they're spread out by by. Nature of the of the venue. And And so it was pretty graceful way to bring fans back. We'll be announcing what will have in the way of crowds for our harvest. Grand. Prix doubleheader beginning of October here in Indianapolis there will be fans they will not. Approach the capacity of this venue, but nevertheless it'll. It'll be more than we've had probably sports in this city at that point. and. Then the finale will be in Saint Petersburg Florida. We still don't know to what fans will be. Able to participate so. It is a psychologically, it's A. An odd strange off-putting sort of process and and and environment. But for the racers racing right and they they keep themselves safe and then they do what they do and. Of course, we'd rather have fans one one of the great attributes I think of Indycar that failed to mention his accessible we are. And so when we do have fans there right there they're in the usually in the garage and paddock area and our drivers are very happy to sign autographs and be be be quite proximate to fans. So we really do miss that. Speaking of accessibility obviously east boats has has really opened up a lot of. motorsports over this over this period. Not only that two people can discover this both for the first time through east coast particularly young road insisted in many cases can actually race against the racist themselves with so many great examples about what what's your own appreciation of of what the east boats period the virtual season if you like did for if a motorsport in general and for any particular. Well, it created the opportunity to put these sports out and so again in this country, in the US we six events in five were on linear television so and they did pretty well in in terms of the audience. I think there's a future for sure and I expected it will grow frankly in many examples, it's it's investment for the sport which one would like to make where it is in the pecking order in our growth remains to be seen. We'd like to get to the place where there isn't any car title. For a great game, a compelling game and then we can really see what the what the uptake is. The first thing is the title that's a significant. Hurdle in an of itself but in we've had events than we have had many not just the ones in this cove season two previously the drivers love it. Our guys really liked to like to be out there. They liked to compete with the public and and so I think there's an opportunity there for sure. Bring back to the what we're saying at the beginning of the conversation about about this exciting new event in Nashville, and you were saying that one of the kind of key. Attractions of indycar is the variety between st coasts as Nashville is going to be the road coast is in the ovals. How do you find that balance and then I was I was lucky enough to cover the series back in Nineteen ninety-four when Nigel. Mansell was over there I spent a year traveling around I, thoroughly enjoyed it. It was an absolutely wonderful experience and the diversity of the different venues was was really very striking and I was always fascinated about about the balance between the different types of circuits. Wha, what is the right balance and how do you work it out? We don't have a quota, but we think the balance is important to us, and so we just very deliberately think about. How to keep it how to how to maintain the balance and it isn't a precise, but it's been more last third a third a third if you accept the definition of those three disciplines. Of quite frankly. You know. ovals. Are are never in the middle of city, Indianapolis maybe the exception and so I think they're tougher in some respects. Indycar fans love oval racing. It's fastest and it's Most hair racing I'm sure. But but then to attract fans to go. You know maybe thirty sixty minutes from the city. Is, increasingly, a challenge because there's so much competition in sports entertainment. So after work really hard on that Streets I. Love because to me like in Nashville case when we put it right in the middle of the city as we do in Saint Petersburg. Florida. In Long Beach California it takes over the city I mean it's so it's it's like Monaco I used to live there and appreciate for one event How just captivates the entire community can't be missed that's the nature restraint, but they're hard to do you have to find. The right combination of elements that will accept disruption when it happens, it's really compelling because it just shows office city and captures the imagination of its public so well so that that's hard but we love them, and then road courses are easier. You know the somebody's already made the investment and we know where those tracks are and it's really a matter of Of of up embracing them in a way that balances with the other two formats. You mentioned also earlier on about looking to bring another another manufacturer into the sport. One of the things we're hearing from a lot of a lot of leaders around the the series and teams as well as. Obviously as a consequence economic consequence of what's happened this year, the sponsors a perhaps going to be pretty difficult thin on the ground through twenty one into twenty two. How confident to you? Robust you'll pipeline is of sponsors. So for the series itself and for the teams, we feel really good about it. Under these circumstances we haven't had anybody run off really there will. There will be some adjustments based on the fact that we expect. Now we'll have three fuel raises this year than was originally planned. but I think people are sticking with us. We're just making some adjustments and mostly frankly the timing of consideration. So and I think the same true for the teams they want to be on the track obviously a much greater headwinds if you can't produce the sport but I, don't I think I'll all of our teams are getting through this and at a quite bullish optimistic about the future. You might think also about diversity being really important and then having a as wide a range of fans and of competitors. As, possible and obviously another thing we've seen this year has been the the idea that sporting general needs to have a sense of purpose just to be an entertainment isn't really enough and obviously across the spectrum from former. NFL We've seen all kinds of of. Social Justice messages, and as well as things like topics is sustainability and diversity, etc. what's your own view on on that and and sport as a platform for for good causes if you like and peppis. I think whether we're business leaders are individual citizens. Or Sport. We do have a responsibility to to make a difference into to be looking for improvement. which starts with acknowledging issues. So I mean that's a very general statement for us. I feel like. The first thing we can do. It is is do things that are more than symbolic and that are more than statements. So we are committed to bring diversity into our sport. And I think we got a lot of work to do to be anywhere near where we should be in that regard. So against some of that is internal to the way we run our business. If you think of our organization, if you think of it that way, it's work with the teams and our promoters so that we fact ecosystem that way and then ultimately it'll be bringing in. Crew members and drivers, and in our ladder series will be an important part of that. Our pipeline does not look good right now in that regard but we're doing some things right now to see what the possibilities are to make a difference fairly quickly as we possibly can. So. Yeah. I the first thing is. We do feel responsibility and sport obviously has As a visible platform has a great opportunity to keep the issues in front of the public. But in addition to that, just the way I think we gotta get our own house in order and and. and. Be a model more than. A symbol. and I hope we can make real progress. Consistently over time. AM. Finally, Mark on a similar theme of the world was moving towards a decarbonisation more electric mobility. I motor sport moving slowly to to reflect that do you feel that the clear that everybody's enjoyed during the the lockdown and and the way that everybody's now looking at their own sense of vulnerability and all these other discussions? Do you feel that the sustainability topic is is more powerful nowadays how do you feel the the shift in of? The move towards decolonisation electric. Yeah. Well the air isn't so clear here even. Three quarters away from California we're getting California or as fire air, and it's true really coast to coast. So it's top of mind not just as a natural disaster, but as evidence of global warming and and I, certainly all these things. Hurricanes in the southern part of this country I think combined to increase. The sense of of. Urgency to do something about to do all the things we can do about global warming in. Saying that right now, our motto is sort of You know faster. And Louder so. I think that's kind of what our brand is. Now, we're not oblivious to sustainability issues. There's a lot of ways we can attack that part of it is off the track with our promoters. In the way we operate our events other leagues have done a really good job in that regard I think. Part of it is on the track and so you've seen some discussion about kind of hybrid motors that's not to replace the basic. Engine. But rather to supplement and I think that that's an ongoing conversation that you'll see some. You'll see some implementation on. In the next couple of years. and then we'll see where it goes from there but but I must say right now. Are Oem's. Chevy General Motors, Chevy and Honda they want horsepower and they They they think that we are a great platform for that part of their market and we'll continue to feel that expectation. Fantastic. Thank you very much. Pleasure thanks for having me. Bank. Music is six am by. Written Mockus Simmons See soundcloud dot com slash trailer music.
Welcome Alaska (1958)
"Let me tell you about express VPN suspect that a lot of you like me will use incognito mode on your browser when you're searching for something that you don't want others to know about, but the catch. Is that your Internet? Service provider can still see every website you've ever visited, but express. VPN can help reroute and secure your web browsing. It is incredibly easy to toggle on and off and surf away the way that I do knowing that you are secure and protected. Check it out. Express VPN dot com slash this day once again. Express VPN dot com slash this day. Hello and welcome to this day in s attack political history from radio. Tokyo. My name is jody, aggregate. This Day July seventh, nineteen, fifty eight President Eisenhower signs, the Alaska statehood, allowing Alaska to become the forty ninth state to join the Union it would officially become a state of the beginning of the next year, but Alaska had been working towards this for a long long time ever since the territory really was purchased by the US Secretary of State William H seward, who was Lincoln, secretary state and then Johnson's as well so let's talk about how a territory becomes. Becomes a state which is an interesting story and certainly one that has made more interesting by the renewed talk bubbling up about Washington DC, possibly becoming a state so I'm joined as always by Nicole Hammer of Columbia alumnae hey. Jodie and our special guests this episode, the second of three is John dickerson sixty minutes the slate, political Gabfest, and a new book is called the hardest job in the world which I think is about podcasting. Is that right John Yes. Right it's an extended examination of but casting in the many perils. Is A book about the presidency, but John of course, one of our favorite political reporters and Of Political Esoterica so I want to kick off this conversation about. An Alaskan statehood with something that seward said in eighteen, sixty eight and I'm going to read this quote, but quote the political society to be constituted here I as a territory, and ultimately as a state or many states will prove a worthy constituency of the republic so Nikki were talking. Ninety years before Alaska becomes a state, there's already this vision for statehood and this real political project. What do we make of that well? It's a wildly aspiration for a lot of different reasons one. It is not the most hospitable climate that you could find to bring people in continue to populate the country amid has people living there, but it not something that's drawing a lot of settlers, and it's not attached to any land that the US already controls and so. So it's this new non-contiguous territory that that he bought an icebox right like there's there's reason to think that this is going to be profitable and that it's going to be populated land so it sort of seems like a flight of fantasy. Thank, which is why it's originally known as seward's folly, because nobody can imagine what he's imagining four Alaska I'm just want to say. We're GONNA. See Stats for Alaskan listeners just drop off big time you start with. John Well. She setting expectations low, which is you know then in eighteen ninety they discover gold or they, and then suddenly it becomes that now now it's seward's genius. What struck me about seward is? In reading about this and thinking about it, and obviously everybody knows about seward's folly. The power that secretaries of state had under presidencies. I don't know you want to decide I. mean they had power all the way into the Cold War too, but That something this big would be associated with the secretary of state, and not the president just tells us about the arrangement of the executive branch at the time, and also I. Mean a reminds me, Madison who basically puts together the Louisiana purchase for Jefferson you know there obviously were? No phones are cables or anything? And it's just kind of extraordinary that seward would go off and do this and I guess just powered by the belief in expansion of America, and that manifest destiny and sort of the world was ours for the taking and the Russians needing the money. And a lot of the land in the continental us was being settled or had been settled. There was a real drive to expand settlement after the civil war and you know the the president is Andrew, Johnson who is facing impeachment, so there might have just been some benign neglect that allowed seward to go. Check out what was happening out in Alaska. I WanNa talk a bit about the political context in the fifties that led to this actual move towards they had but one one last thing Nikki before we were. Were taping, you mentioned. You know that seward has come up on the podcast a couple times before he was almost assassinated as part of the plot around Lincoln's assassination, and then this is services a pretty solid second act for him as well right. Yeah, absolutely remember. We talked about Lincoln's assassination as essentially a coup attempt it was an attempt to cut off the head of the government of the United States, and so there were supposed to be fascinating against the vice president Andrew Johnson and there was pretty obviously. Obviously wasn't successful, but a pretty brutal attempt against seward who does survive and continues to be Secretary of state after Lincoln's assassination, so we have this manifest destiny context in the in the late nineteenth century, but then is regret towards the middle of the twentieth century. What is it about the forties and fifties? What's your sense of what it is about the forties and fifties that leads to this actual push and this success of achieving statehood I always assumed it was cold war. You know we have to keep an. An eye on the Russians. We want big territory. There's also lots of natural resources there. We've talked about the gold, but there's other things that the US were would want so strategically, and from a natural resources perspective, and then also Johnson and Rayburn wanted basically Democratic senators from Alaska Right I. I would say I would expand the Cold War context just a little bit to say this is also a period of rapid decolonisation across the world, and here you have these territories, and in the case of Alaska you have. The people of Alaska beginning to organize an ask for statehood, and so in the face of that there is real pressure on the Eisenhower Administration to extend full political citizenship to the people of Alaska. Because otherwise it puts the United States out of step with its with its purported democratic values and John Your reference to the addition of Democratic senators. I mean you know this brings est little to this evokes something that's happening right now. which is you know we're? We're having a conversation with DC statehood. Statehood and it is coming down for better worse to conversation up the political math that entails, and that was the case with with less well, so at the time Democrats were trying to tie Alaska and Hawaiian statehood together as a package, because it was assumed that Alaska would lean democratic and Hawaii would lean Republican. That actually has obviously flipped since then, but I guess you know. Is it the case that this will always end up being political in that way? Sure yeah I mean you know. Representation in the house, and the Senate basically will always come down to that, which is why it feels like we'd unless you get I wonder if you could say unless you can get to states where you have them, basically cancelling each other out. That's why he's going to have such trouble. As long as the Republicans are in charge. Yeah, I mean it's one of those things where again confounded the founders expectations in many ways. They set up all these institutions and they were like they're going to be nonpartisan. They're going to be non-political. We'll set these paths for how territories become a state and it's going to. To be based on the will of the people there, and then how it turns out, especially as you start the run up to the civil war that need for continued, balanced I between free states and states where slavery was legal, and then between Republican and democratic. State says you develop a two party system. It becomes this well-meaning force when it comes to bringing new states into the Union. Haven't there been some proposals to tidy statehood to adding expanding some other part of the map so that there would then balance out with Republican senators. Yeah, there have been now most of them are. Let's say OP ED worthy. been seriously proposed in any sort of like political centigrade. But yes, there's a whole whole set of political ideas, the kind of fall into the eight hundred word category in this case you know, somebody has suggested splitting Washington state and to two, so you could have eastern Washington which would be a very conservative state to balance out DC, and there are a lot of states that frankly have very conservative. Well, that's also convenient, because it's just Washington Washington just copy and paste in all the documents and honestly I. think that's probably exactly why they chose that state to split. So obviously, there's a pussies John Your from DC from DC as well I mean we've always this has been something. We've lived with for a long time as DC residents. What is your sense of this moment? Do you think that this is as close as we've come to having a real conversation? At DC statehood as close as we've come, but it's not close. Close enough in terms of getting the I mean you know how long of the taxation without representation license plates been available in Washington feels like maybe twenty or more years in in this particularly partisan moment, unless you get a huge change, ins instructor, and the Senate's not GonNa Happen I. Mean it does get to something. We've touched on this show. Which is interesting. I guess it's not a coincidence, but the more the more hyper partisan our politics become, it feels like the more space there weirdly as for some big structural conversations, you know I mean we are having conversations about voter access and all sorts of things that feel like the mechanics of our democracy, and this feels like if it's in, but maybe that's more symptom than caused or something, but you can also understand why that is Jodi right. Because when the political system is functioning, you can make piecemeal reforms and you can move. Move The ball forward and give people a sense that the government is responsive to their needs more that that grinds to a halt. The more there is a push you know knowing you can't actually get a bill passed through the Senate because Lord knows they wouldn't actually take one up for debate. Then all of a sudden. You're lake well. Should we just get rid of the Senate so it sort of forces, those kind of big structural questions, which is why we're having another discussion about the filibuster and get rid of it. At this moment so. Which is actually like the least dramatic proposal on the table right now, right? Get rid of the filibuster versus get rid of the the electoral college right right, and so and now it's choose your reform between the electoral college through gerrymandering reform and getting rid of the filibuster. You know it is interesting in the conversation around DC statehood. I saw someone write somewhere. Let's bounce probably tweet. But I saw someone kind of say. This is the longest stretch we've had since we've added a new state and you know it's kind of interesting to frame it that way that there was a time in which we were adding states. States fairly regularly you know, and this was something that was just part of a American life. Yeah, the US sort of frozen place after a one, thousand, nine, hundred fifty nine, so for the last seventy years. We've had the same flag. We've had the same territory right. There was sort of an end to a kind of American imperialism that involved getting new territory, and so that kind of static nece is reflected in the flag and I think in a certain sense has fed this resistance to new states. It's been this way for so long fifty such a nice round number. The people just kind of want to stick with. You're joking, but seriously. How big of a factor is that that Nice round number? You get to set up. Fifty one stars is awkward. Let's be honest. Is that an element if you found a state that had sufficient natural resources or solve some other challenge, we'd be fifty one and a second absolutely if we annex candidates. Ended Their Nikki Hammer. Thanks as always thank you David and thanks to you John, dickerson. You'll be with us for one more episode after this. Thank you judy. This day NSF Eric political history is a proud member of Radio Topi from Pr X. You can find out lots more including how to suggest the topic at this day pod Dot Com. Our producer and researcher is Jacob Feldman. Our theme. Music is by teen days a Remix of music from blue dot sessions. Coming up next episode, we'll talk about Al. Gore's I mentioned on this podcast how he got chosen as Bill Clinton's vice president, and what to make of the way that Vice Presidents are chosen. That's coming up on Thursday in the meantime rate review. Tell a friend about the show or just you know, go until the podcast. My name is jody again. Thanks again for listening and we'll see you soon. The White House President Eisenhower the proclamation that makes Alaska's entry into the union official, and across the country, manufacturers go into action, bringing in a stars and Stripes afternoon to date. On the forty nine star has been solved by a field of seven staggered rows of seven stars. Each Lila is not mandatory to replace eight started lags now and US manufacturers, playing poker boom business at America rushes to keep up with the new. All. There's a good chance that you like me doing a lot of your web browsing all of it maybe from home these and perhaps like me. You're trying to figure out what that means for privacy and the security of your online activity. Who is watching who is tracking? What can they see well? Maybe you do what I do from time to time, which is fire up incognito mode incognito it. It sounds great that no one will see what I'm up to, but here's the thing. Incognito mode doesn't really hide your activity. Your Internet service provider can still see every single website you've ever visited. That's why even when I'm at home. Whenever I go online, I use express VPN express VPN is an APP that reroute your Internet connection through their secure servers, so that your s P can't see. See The sites that you visit. It also keeps all of your information secure by encrypting one hundred percent of your data expressed. VPN does a ton of work to protect your browsing, but you don't have to do a ton of work to use it. It's incredibly easy. You just toggle on or off one simple button I'm in the habit of just switching it on when I start browsing it. It runs in the background. I'm off to the races. Don't even really think about it. 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Bonus Episode: Sacred is Sacred!
"Everyone. Welcome to this bonus episode of all my relations antiquing I felt like with some of the stuff that was going on in the world this week around Notre Dom and all of the indigenous response to the burning of the cathedral that we would take opportunity to kind of drum in and have a quick conversation with one another about what was going on. If you like these short formats, we might be doing some more of it. But in till then we'll have a new episode next week. What? Hello friends and relatives today. We begin. Our episode sacred is sacred with love and condolences to our relatives. In paris. In fact, that is why we are here today we wanted to discuss Notre Dom and the outcry of public support. And then also the response from our indigenous community and other POC allies in the aftermath of the fire. Yeah. I mean, I've been shocked by some of the things that I've been reading on social media. And I also shocked that that that fire happened and it brought up a a whirlwind of of thoughts and images. Really? I think of like the images of of standing rock burning or the images of old man house burning and and sacred things in general burning and it, and it kind of has been a triggering moment for me how how about you Adrian. Well, I think that you and I have had slightly different responses to things like I've been I was sad. I guess at the burning of Notre Dame. I think that there's a lot of important artwork. And there is something to be said for the cultural space that the cathedral Holtz. But I was not I didn't find a lot of the responses super-problematic. I mean, I think I saw. I understood where they were coming from. And I understood why there was so much anger and outcry from indigenous communities and other communities of color around this particular moment, so maybe we can just take a moment to discuss some of those opinions, and I pulled up some different social media posts from some friends and some different opinions from different media outlets. Would you like to begin Adrian by sort of reading or echoing what some of those things say sure, so Doug Parker, who will is someone that we both know and respect very deeply said on Facebook. And it looks like it may be a quote from someone else said, quote, if two men in a world of more than seven billion people can provide three hundred million pounds to restore Notre Dom within six hours than there is enough money in. In the world to feed every mouth shelter every family and educate every child the failure to do. So as a matter of will and a matter of system, what do you think about that? I mean, I think it's true. I also think that the Catholic church is one of the wealthiest organizations on the planet and the Vatican holds vast vast amounts of wealth. And so the fact that folks are pledging money to them feels uncomfortable to me, I also think about how much atrocity has been inflicted on our communities by. Christianity. And by the Catholic church in particular. But I also do know that there are a lot of folks in our communities who are deeply Catholic or are deeply Christian, and that those systems of faith, really. Provide comfort and support and foundation in their lives. And I recognize that as well, he. Yeah. I I saw this post from Dallas. But it's from Arash sufi, and it says, yes, it is tragic that a church that took two hundred years to build on the backs of poor folk burnt down today in Paris. But eurocentrism is when you scroll past an ancient mosque in Palestine being demolished, but cried cheers. When something happens in Europe, just last week, Israel converted a historic mosque older than Notre Dame into a bar in the past few weeks. We have witnessed the burning of historic black churches, and we have seen sacred. Indigenous lands destroyed for pipelines. Not to mention the history of the Catholic church Nutro cities. It has been behind in Latin America Middle East, Asia and Africa have sympathy when it comes to European tragedies. But sometimes struggle with empathy part of my decolonisation. Processes removing the eurocentric lenses in which I once feud the world. Okay. I said a lot of people riposte this on social media. And I think that's where I I like had this moment where I I was just like, wait. Hold up. Hold up. Okay. First of all like, I've been to to this cathedral in Paris. And I remember the the the experience I remember walking in and being overwhelmed by its beauty. And by the these massive arches that I thought of being built in the sixteenth century. And wondering how they like man had the ability to do such majestic things at the time. And I remember feeling a little bit of like, ooh, you know, like, it was it was stolen resources that created created this in and knowing that that was a real thing. But at the same time, I think of my relatives. And the way that we behave on the res-, you know, when families that may be our arch nemesis, or politically we have very different opinions when they suffer loss or tragedy. How we will in that moment let that lie and go to the funeral and help start the fire and make fish and cook and be supportive and loving. And I think that we have this traditional knowledge structure that tells us we hold space for one another especially for prayerful people. And I think that this moment right now like, you know, twenty four hours after the flames have been put out is not really the right moment to begin politicizing in pointing fingers. I mean, can we just give them a moment to mourn, perhaps before we make it into something that fits within our agenda? I'm crinkly my face. I don't totally agree. I think so for me, I can totally understand -cause. What we talk about on this podcast our relationships in relation -ality. And to me there's a difference between I can support my friends and loved ones who like I have a lot of Pueblo friends and relatives who are are Catholic, and that this will be a major loss for them. And I can support them as individuals as human beings who are are experiencing a loss while also being heavily critical of the system that Notre dam represents. And so to me it's kind of like when we talk about after a mass shooting and people are like, oh don't politicize it we need to mourn the victims. But like one do we talk about gun control if not immediately after a tragedy? So to me, it feels like now is the time because a lot. Of non native, folks. Like, and this is what a lot of them memes are saying to me is that folks are like this happens to us every week. This happens to us all the time like are indigenous sites are just as sacred as Notre Dom, and you bulldoze them, and you burn them down. And you don't think about the implications of that for us. And so notice this feeling that you are feeling when you're seeing this thing burn in front of your eyes. And there's nothing you can do that hopeless that helpless feeling. That's what we feel. And so to me, it feels like this is a moment to capitalize on that to try and get some folks to understand what it feels like to be us when we see our sacred sites destroyed four whatever construction project or pipeline or shopping mall, or whatever it is. So I can have I can empathize with the folks who are feeling loss. But the Catholic. Churches so powerful. It's one of the most powerful institutions in the world. So us criticizing the Catholic church in this moment is not hurting anyone in my mind. Indigenous goddess gang put up a post saying the concern and dismays being felt by many around the world. Now, imagine that the damage to this historic and religious site was caused by pipeline running through it by fracking or due to development, the shock and dismay is the type of feeling digits people feel when our lands and sacred sites are damaged and are threatened, and that was a quote from Casey Duma, and you know, I can relate, you know, I've seen I think about old man house burning and our long houses burning in the northwest. And and I think about those Barrio sites like the canoe bone yards in the places where we fought really hard to protect to try to protect the gravesites in the sacred sites. In our many of our traditional spaces and. And I realize the importance of those traditional sacred spaces, and that's partly why I have empathy for these people that are morning because I know how the ways it hurts. And I think that if if we politicize the moment, I'm not saying that there isn't room for that conversation, and there should be. But I'm I do believe that that we have this human responsibility to to hold one another when when when suffering and in the same way that we want these same colonizers and oppressors to to be mindful of our sacred sites. We them. I just don't think that there's any difference. I mean, I I know that I know that there's power structures that play but. I just can't imagine somebody, you know, suffering right in front of me, some their house burning or or them being shot gun or some sort of crazy tragedy, and and not just taking a moment to to care for them. It just seems basic to me, and I think again, I'm not in disagreement that the humans that are suffering should be acknowledged. But I think to me too. Say that indigenous Meam accounts or indigenous accounts should not be posting these sort of gleeful things in this moment. Feels in some ways kind of like Thome policing which like were in such positions of marginalization as indigenous people that like no matter what our sponsor things. There's always going to be someone who says that it's not the right response that we should be going about it in like a nicer way or a calmer way or a less aggressive way. And we've seen that from the beginning in terms of our resistance to set loyalism as a whole is. It's always like well. We might listen to you. If you were just nicer about it is something that people tell me on the internet all the time. And I don't think that's the case. I think that people just aren't gonna listen, regardless. And so if we police the way that folks are going about their response to things I think that doesn't help the situation either like people should be allowed to voice their anger, and people should be allowed to voice their their feelings of upset that are sacred sites aren't taken in the same way that we don't get pledges of three hundred million dollars within hours that we don't get the same level of recognition or that. When the black churches burned in Saint Louis that people didn't see that as a similar level of tragedy or something worthy of notice. And so I think that this is a symbol. It's not necessarily about the actual act for some people. It may be but it's a symbol that is represented. Tive of the power systems at play and whose sites are considered sacred and who's loss is considered real loss. And that's the feeling that is coming out in all of these posts is it's been a long time coming and this is now a symbol that lets us talk about these feelings that we've had for a very long time. Yeah. You're talking about the seventh district Baptist church. Fires and Saint Landry. The. Yes. Yeah. The New York Times wrote about it. The headline is black churches destroyed by arson see spike and donations after Notre dome. Fire and the first paragraph says the fire at Notre Dame cathedral on Monday prompted immediate pledges of millions of euros to help rebuild it on Tuesday. Spur donations to do the same for much smaller places of worship thousands of miles away. That were recently destroyed by arson a crowd cunning campaign for three fire ravaged black churches in Louisiana receive more than one point two million after it was widely shared on social media on Tuesday. Many users noted that while hundreds of millions of euros had already been pledged to rebuild the famous cathedral, the small churches in Louisiana will still struggling. I I find it really at the crowdfunding campaign is now up to one point five million. And it's it's amazing. How this is like so quickly spiked. I think what is it like maybe standing rock raised like two million dollars total right for the whole for the whole situation. And part of the reason why the oil is flowing through the Dakota Access pipeline is because there wasn't enough resources up front in the beginning to really truly fight this big enormous oil company with in, you know, in in the channels that we have to which is in court systems, you know? Yeah. And even like, I just keep thinking, and I think a lot of people are thinking of the same thing in terms of standing rock where in September of the movement one of the former tribal historic preservation office. Offers on was granted access to private land. Which is adjacent to standing rock and was able to do an informal survey of that land that he had previously not had access to and that was in the path of the pipeline and identified something over twenty burial sites and potential burial sites. And a lot more of these archaeological features that he said were some of the most important archaeological findings in the state of North Dakota in hundreds of years, and he presented that information in court as a plea to get a temporary stoppage of the pipeline. And after he presented that information. Twenty four hours later, the Dakota Access pipeline construction workers went out to that exact area that he had identified on a Saturday of a holiday weekend and bulldozed it. And that. Was barely a blip in the media coverage of what was going on. And like the loss involved in that. Like, it makes me choked up to even think about it that like they skipped fifteen miles of their construction. They like were not even close to the site. They brought the bulldozers on the Saturday of the holiday weekend and just bulldoze that spot. So they wouldn't have to face the consequences in court of they're being burial in sacred sites. There. Unlike the loss involved in that, and I was there that day that was that was September third Labor Day weekend. When they also brought yeah, brought dogs and many brain bit by by the Dakota Access pipeline's, private militia who I think they're dogs bit like over fifteen different victims. I myself brought three boys to the hospital that day who all had broken ribs from getting beat up that day. And I I remember. Yeah. I was there. Yeah. And I think that that's what folks are thinking about when they're seen this public mourning for a secret institution that when we were mourning for a sacred space. We were met with dogs that were attacking people we were met with bulldozers like, I think it's stirring up a lot of those feelings that I think the conversation is also about visibility right? Like what you're talking about? Not just that we were married dogs and bulldozers and water cannons and massive arrests and felonies. But also that we were met with visibility right? Like that. I think that we can Amy Goodman was there and that aired on democracy now, and that going on democracy now actually really like conf made the the movement much larger was. Yeah. Major leaving cut because. It did it did it completely. I think the next week. You know, it was like there was a thousand people there. And then there was ten thousand people there. So the media attention really helped and all the media outlets came after that. But they there wasn't much run time. Right. Like, I remember watching the the live feeds, and and watching people being sprayed with water cannons and freezing temperatures and people getting hypothermia and looking up at national television, hoping that I would see some sort of coverage. I was looking for solidarity among strangers in. There was none of that. Just wasn't happening on national on national news, and it's still not happening right because what's happening with the Cariboo in the Arctic or with keystone or with lying three or what's happening on the bayou or with oak flats or with or bears ears or Monica or hickory ground or any on. We have we have Notre don's happening all over the place all the time. And so I do think that that's just that's the frustration. That's the voice that is coming out. And I think we both are on the same page in that we both think that there should be sympathy and empathy extended to folks who this is their place of worship, this is Representative of their their space of prayer their sacred space, and that we should be extending the the. The hand of understanding and healing to them. I'm in agreement with that. I don't know. I think it's an important time for us to also voice these other stories too because. Those are the feelings that are being raised for folks. And I think they should be able to have an outlet to to voice them. He I mean, we can't preach decolonization and say that the revolution will be indigenous. And then the very next day, you know, laugh at somebody suffering and just doesn't work that way. Not in my opinion. I do believe that sacred a sacred, and where people are praying they deserve respect and tolerance is the key. And you know, I understand people's response. But I also think of my grandma, you know, and and I think of many of our grandmas who. Became Catholics willingly or unwillingly. And I think if people like from my residues, there's a small Catholic church on res-, and there's this man father, Pat, oh, you've told me stories of father, Pat, and how father Pat has you know, will hold space for people like when we have funerals. We have the shaker church sing and Seattle and people will sing and sometimes Buddhists we'll get up and pray. And then like the fourth Adventists will also get up and pray and and their space made for everybody to pray. And when when people would like to in however, and whomever, and it's a really beautiful practice that I've never seen outside of my traditional. Territories. And and I am grateful that I was raised with that sort of tolerance. And and so I just like to extend my love and respect to the prayer for people that are suffering. And also tell you know, like the stronghold of the indigenous scholars and thinkers that I understand what you're saying. But I also I also hope that that we can also sort of lead the revolution in in showing our traditional teachings and and in our traditional teachings. I do believe that tolerances amongst them. So that's my two cents. I think that's fair. I got I got plenty of other thoughts. But I also think that we have kind of we just wanted to create this space to sort of think through some of the things that when we realized that we both had slightly differing opinions on what was going on. But I do extend my sympathies to folks in Paris in our Catholic relatives in our communities who this is a major loss. But I hope that we can also keep pushing forward the conversations around our own sacred sites as well. Wouldn't it be amazing, though, if this became a pivotal moment where we suddenly raise two hundred million dollars for keystone? Or three or the Arctic? Yeah. I mean in that sense. Like, this is when you kind of want to understand you wanna stand from the mountaintop and say like look protect bears ears an oak, flats and Monica and all of our other sacred sites that that have value in meaning to our people, and and one is in more sacred than the other. Word. Well, thank you all for tuning in and listening to Matik in. I have a conversation from across the country where grateful to to have you listening and tuning in, and please share with your friends like us on I tunes rate. It that really helps us out. We love you. And we'll see you next time. I'll relations.
My People, Our History
"This is is. One. The Tel Aviv review. Hello and welcome to the Tel Aviv review brought to you by Van, Leer, Jerusalem, Institute, I get on happened. Shenlin every week. We bring you conversations with authors about the books and research and other things that we like. If you like us, please consider becoming a patriot saporta going to homepage. That's toby. One FM FAM- slash Tel Aviv review, scroll down to the bottom and click the big red button says Patriots Click and support us. We're counting on you. This episode is part of a series generously sponsored by the Israeli Office of the Konrad Adenauer Foundation which includes a focus on global affairs and the international world. Order and we're pleased to welcome back to the show. Professor Rasheed holiday, speaking to us from New York City. You may have noticed that we have gone remote in these days of Corona. We want to tell you where guests are from rushing holidays. The Edwards Sade professor of Modern Arab Studies at Columbia University. He has a BA from Yale. From Oxford, he is co editor of the Journal of Palestine Studies and he was the president of the Middle East Studies. Association, he was also an advisor to the Palestinian delegation to the Madrid in Washington Arab Israeli peace negotiations from Tobin Ninety one until June nineteen ninety-three, and for our purposes most importantly, he's the author of seven books prior to the latest one which we will be discussing today. It's called the Hundred Years War. On Palestine. History of settler, colonialism and resistance now seventeen to twenty, seventeen published by metropolitan. Books in two. Thousand Twenty Rasheed Holiday. Welcome back to the Tel Aviv review. Thanks for having me back. So I. Want to open up by talking about the form or format of this book. You are writing this book as a historian, but not only. You've woven in a memoir. Making this rather personal, it's not just somebody's history or even. The People's history is also your personal history. Why did you decide to develop the book in this way? Were you trying to in some way? Challenge the historian of the conflict as well as historical ideas. Well I. I was I was under the influence of of my son in particular. Who said to me that? He thought I had written enough. Academic. Dry monographs and that it was time to write something a little more personal. And to bring in some of my own experiences, some of the stuff that I would use a sources, but in a different way including family material and so I. Reluctantly and with difficulty, acceded to this suggestion which he helped helped me to devise instructor for the book. and. I was trying to challenge a certain kind of historiographer. at at the same time and I don't know if that that succeeds because I'm making an argument that many historians don't find terribly controversial, but that many other people probably will, and at the same time I'm trying to make this a a narrative, this approachable and relatable for people who are not may be academics or specialists or historians. What is the thing you think? Historians do not find controversial, but the general reader might. Well, I mean in the in the very title is this. Is this This argument at this is a this is a struggle involves colonialism. This would not have been something that would have been controversial to anybody in the issue of in the Nineteen Twenty S or nineteen thirties. They understood that this was the same time that they saw it. As a national project that it was a colonial project, the word colonial was was commonly used as a self-described description but it's something that in the wake of the establishment of Israel in Post Network era is diminished actually. Actually in the Post World War Two era is banished from people's consciousness, and is now seen as almost an insult or a or a or a slur, to suggest that this is not just a national renewal project, or however Zionism wants to self described, but rather was an is a settler colonial project. Isn't it more a question of semantics than actual historiographer? Because you know, it's the evolution of the sociopolitical context of colonialism. After, decolonisation et CETERA. It's not so much the the facts themselves, but you interpret them. Well I think that the the point that I try and make here is that this is a common process for successful set or colonial. A project, which is to say that they normalize, they become national of the United States is set Nicole. New Project I'm sitting here. Looking on an island called Manhattan looking out my window and an island that was called Manhattan that's not an anglo-saxon. The that's that's a native American name. This is or colonial project. It's a successful. There is an American national entity that was created by. There's an Israeli national entity that was created by the Zionist project. There's nothing in that I eat. There's nothing contradictory between the idea that several co project should become a successful national project. How many of those are there these days? I'm trying to think after decolonisation. How many countries can you look around the world and say this country is the product of colonialism and is still governed or or inhabited primarily by the colonists, mainly white Anglo Saxon settler colonies, a New Zealand Australia United States and Canada You could argue that one of the rare cases where a settler colonial project was fundamentally revised would be South Africa maybe some east African countries. which were original, originally meant to be whites or colony colonies have developed in a different fashion, but those are the only ones I argue in the book designs. is unique and the struggle between Zionist project and the. Palestinians is unique in many other different ways. I mean for one thing. You don't have a Bible in South Africa or North America well. Let's go back many other. Reasons for the differences on you don't have a people. That's a direct extension of the Metropole. The way you do in France or in North America. British subjects come to North America French. North Africa and they see those colonies as extensions of the mother country. the the settlers who come to Palestine are trying to set up something completely separate from any. They have no other country as it were so it's unique in many many respects. Hope talk about some of the ways in which the unique and I want to go back to what you said in the beginning, which is that in the early years of Zionist project that would not have been a controversial thing to say, and I notice that in the introduction you sight Zev Jabotinsky from Nineteen twenty-three, referring to the Palestinian Arabs as trying to resist colonization in. In his words, and so the question is. Do you think that by that? He meant it in the way we mean today, which is in a negative pejorative sense like what a terrible thing this is colonialism, and of course they're trying to resist it or he have said yes. We're colonial project because we are desperate for a state, and that's the way states are built. Either that or territorial conquest, and we can't do territorial conquest. So this is what we're going to do. No he would have said just what you said he did. Say it. Isn't it great and become a spokesperson for dividends key? The other thing about Jabotinsky and his brutal honesty was an I. Mean you? You can find multiple multiple statements to this effect. Is it. Is it first of all as as you suggested he said. We have no alternative. We have to do this. We need an iron wall. provided by somebody else to enable us to establish this this colonial endeavor, but that. Of course this is our country belongs to us and we. We have no alternative. The other point to make about Jefferson skiing people in the twenties and thirties is this was the high age of European colonialism European colonialism was still extending in the post. World War One era after reside the the colonial powers extended their their their grip over the world. Questionable right. So much settler colonialism colonialism, buying large is an earlier phenomenon, is it? That's correct. That is correct inside China zone is the last gasp up white European settlers colonialist and Tony Judge, said it sort of missed the bus. It comes later. than all the ones that were much more successful in much earlier I mean they start here in the seventeenth century. North there. they started Australia in the eighteenth century in Palestine late nineteenth, so it is, it is in that respect in anomaly, but as late as the twenties and thirties, colonialism was still not in bad older. It was only. Really after World War Two in the era of decolonization that the world changed and Zionism changed its tune partly because they're doing this conflict with the British starting with the nineteen thirty nine White Paper until that point Zionism was, the cuddled Stepchild at British Columbia's However, much they they cobbled and complained about the British, not doing enough without British support. Support designers could not have established itself in Palestine in the twenties and thirties right up to nineteen thirty nine, and at that point, the conflict with the British lead Zionist to see themselves as fighting colonialism, and so it worked perfectly for them in in the era of decolonization, they could say we are fighting British colonials. It was a wonderful transformation for now. The interesting thing about the way you tell the historical narrative in your book divided into chapters each. Is called The a declaration of war from different. Yeah, and you can look at at least two declarations and wars and victories that were phenomenal from an Israeli point-of-view. That's the establishment of Israel in nineteen, forty, eight with the expulsion of a great chunk of the. Palestinian indigenous indigenous population. And, nine, hundred, sixty seven, that was also the Six Day War of course a remarkable victory why one these remarkable victories decisive enough to say okay to deliver a death blow? To the Palestinians. Actually a really good question, and I think that most people for a long time after nineteen forty eight would've assumed that the that victory did exactly what you said that it had finished Palestine. Meyer says sixty nine. There is no Palestine there never was she is. Sharing a common assumption we've won. They're gone. It's over among many Israelis. They were dealing with the Arab countries They thought that was the only conflict they had to really. Resolve in their favor that the one with the Palestinians had been settled in forty eight at they were wrong. Turns out because the housing. National Movement revives in the nineteen late fifties and sixties I touch on that in the book and many historians have talked about it starting with Yoshua porath way back when and and many others since. Israeli Palestinian another sixty seven actually ironically gives a boost the Palestinian nationalist even as it is enormous quote, unquote victory for Israel It also is victory for Palestinian nationalism. again. This is irony, but there we are. A quota because it was so succinct, you said a central paradox of nineteen, sixty seven by defeating the Arabs Israel resurrected the Palestinians. That's a very powerful statement. How did that actually happen? Well many people in the Arab world assumed the negative outcomes of ninety forty eight would somehow be A. Changed positively a by the Arab governments, so whether the nothing in Egypt, the bathroom in Syria or whoever that this would this this? These problems would be redressed. In the the minds of some people that would mean the destruction of Israel in the minds of some people that would be. A return to the forty-seven frontiers, whatever it might me and the Palestinians were sort of. Not the ones who are seen as having their destiny in their on had this is Palestinian assertion that was going on at the time, the development of the redevelopment of a revived Palestinian. National Movement that Said No. We have to do it ourselves, but most Arabs most people in the Arab world in the Middle East felt the our governments were responsible, and the governance were shown to be weakened incompetent. By the results of the nineteen sixty seven war. Where three, Arab armies were decisively defeated in just a couple of a few days by the Israeli by. He's really military. So, I think to understand the roots of that revival. Now now we now that we're at sixty seven. I WANNA go back to the early part of the twentieth century when you chronicle through parts of your own family, the emergence of a Palestinian national identity, the one that has been so roundly denied by Israeli leaders and their supporters over the years and I I wonder if you could tell us a bit about how how how Palestinian Arabs at the time saw the emergence of that national identity? Why do you say that contradicts Zionist narratives so decisively? Well. I mean this is the topic of written on a couple of in a couple of places. Where here looks right and it? It's based on understanding of nationalism that is not well regarded by nationalists, whether whether Israeli while designers or whether Palestinian or for that matter Arab nationalist or any other national because my understanding of nationalism is that it's very modern phenomenon. My understanding is that even though it. It incorporates pre existing elements of identity religion ORB attachment to place, or whatever language It is an ENU phenomenon. The idea that the policy has to be made up of people who are similar nationally have the same language, and so on so forth. That's a modern concept didn't exist in the seventy sixteenth century the British. Don't bring a a German and put him on the throne because he's. A national. They bring in and it doesn't matter that he's a German and before that they Dutchman. Sixty eight so the national principal, even in the most developed. Later on developed nations is not fully established until much much later than most people assume. And, that's true with Palestine the idea that you are a Palestinian above being more Jerusalem lighter. A member of that family simply didn't exist in seventeen, hundred or eighteen, hundred or even probably into the late nineteenth century And that's true for Zionism as well as minority ideology in the nineteenth century late nineteenth century when it develops. Most Jews don't think that they belong to a nation state that has to be established. In their ancestral homeland of the land of Israel that's a new concept in the late nineteenth century. And not it's not a majority. so I trace in different works I've done a how passing national consciousness develops and the elements out of which the medical overlapping identities out of which develops and it really doesn't take off until the twentieth century at any more than Zionism for that matter I mean you have four million Jews coming to the United States, and tens of thousands coming to Palestine and the people voted with their feet. The ones who believed in Zionism. Sincerely came to Valentine ones. Who didn't. I stayed in Russia or stayed in eastern Europe or came to the United. States and I would argue that over time that changes. And that those beliefs constitute realities, national reality is a real saying but the ideas that people hold as members of the quote, unquote nation or very often miss fabrications, distortions and so on. The interesting thing about looking at it from Settler colonial perspective. Is that it allows us to go beyond the actual existence or non existence of the Nazi. The national consciousness and look at. Politics in terms of you know power political power and the Jews designers you know, however downtrodden and poor and persecuted. They were. Still enjoyed stress. Sudden degree, the support off of. You know international powers that allow them to develop this disparity of power. with the Palestinians is not really the thing that you know. Put the conflict in motion in your in your view. Absolutely this is why I describe what happens in nineteen, seventeen with the Balfour Declaration as a declaration of war on the Palestinians. Hertzel Hawks Zionist project all around Europe. He went to the Ottoman Sultani went to the German Kaiser. Frenchie was unsuccessful. But it was only when vitamin managed to. Win The support of the British during a one that the project really takes off I. Mean You have settlers and you? Have you have settlements colonies in Palestine before the Balfour Declaration, but until you have a great power setting this at the center of its Middle East Policy. And putting troops and money and power of behind it that this becomes the this project takes all. So. Yes, absolutely, and this comes to crunch in the late thirties when the Palestinians finally rise up. And in thirty, six, thirty, nine in the British bring in. Over one hundred thousand soldiers in the Royal Airforce. They crushed Austin without that. That Israel would not have been created. There's just no. There's no question that the support of the greatest power of the age in those two decades after World War, one was essential of the precondition central precondition for the establishment of the state of Israel. This is not an entirely controversial argument. Tom Segev makes the same argument in his book one Palestine complete. Right but I think that what I what goes seems to me another underlying theme of the book. Even if I'm not sure if you intended for it to be, but it seems to me that it stands out which is that the Palestinian Arabs of the time in the attempt to kind of consolidate and assert their national identity faced a struggle at every angle in other words, it was obvious that Zionists would try to deny that there their national identity, but the British as you say, make war on them, and then later on, you also document how the Arab states were not too keen to recognize their national identity specifically king. King Abdullah of Jordan, who extended his generous offer to to put them under his protection after forty eight. They said no, you your your family. Members were intimately involved in that, and and it was like an assertion of Palestinian leadership that we need to forge her own identity. That was not particularly welcome. Why why was that such a struggle? When other nations were coming into being through the first half of the late nineteenth century and first half of the twentieth century, and being recognized as such wide of the Palestinians constantly have to make the case that we are a nation unto ourselves, not just one of the Arab world. Well, it's. It's a combination of factors. One is the consistent support of external powers. What we've already talked about not just the British during World War Two the world changes in a great powers become the great superpowers become the United States and the Soviet Union was I honest. Movement to its credit cultivates its links with both such that when push comes to shove in the post, World War Two. It has the support of both superpowers. Partition doesn't pass without the Americans the Russians. Arming it through the General Assembly forcing a client states we countries to vote for it Israel doesn't get established without both military support, diplomatic support, and so on from both superpower. So there's that continues, but as you as you suggest there's also other problems for the Palestinians one of them being of the lack of support from the Arab countries in in many cases, the active opposition of the countries notably as you mentioned king on the. Abdallah, was always hostile to Palestinian nationalism because his ambitions included expanding his. Don't mean westwards into Palestine North into Syria. And if possible eastwards into Iran, he always felt that he got the short end of the stick. When Winston Churchill distributed the goodies after World War One and he wanted as much as he could get a Palestine. He was the only are who welcomes nineteen thirty seven partition plan a private Auckland. Commission of seven the. Appeal Commission Partition Plan of Nineteen, thirty seven. He was perfectly happy with the nine hundred forty seven partition plan a recount, an incident that my father told me about in nineteen, forty, seven A. At the very moment when the partition plan was was adopted by the General Assembly. And he cut a deal tried to cut a deal with Zionist movement with the Jewish Agency in the person of moisture, Sharon, and go the Meyer with whom he negotiated a great lakes. How they would sort things out in Palestine, so he was fundamentally opposed to Palestinian nationalism because of his own territorial ambitions. The problem with other countries was that sometimes they actually oppose the president. So Palestinians fought the Syrians for example in the seventies Libyan and Iraqi intelligence services killed many many many Palestinian leaders of, but the other problem was their rivalries of nullified any possibility of their of their extending unified support to the Palestinians or doing anything. vis-a-vis Israel so I didn't directly. So it's either they directly fought against the Palestinians or because they were fighting against each other. The Palestinians became the pawn. Exactly right and that's and that's again. Another spurred Palestinian nationals, and that's one reason that in the in the wake of sixty seven, the Palestinian National Movement takes off, takes over the PLO which had been established by Egypt to master and control of rising policy nationals in the Palestinians taken over and as they say, the rest is history. was there anything that the Palestinians could have done to improve diplomatic standing maybe not as much as the the Zionist who really has excelled at it, but do you think that the Palestinians were perhaps a bit too passive times passive way. I I want to sharpen that question I. Wanna I wanNA pile on to that question. It seems like as the Palestinian leadership was emerging, and and again forming itself in the in the fifties and sixties, they generally used military strategies whether it was raids inside Israel, or as you put it I, think later commando groups in the lead up to sixty seven, so maybe if you can put the two halves of our question together and say did the strategy. They meant they chose work. Or Church could they have done more on the diplomatic international seen and done would there with the results have been different or better I know the counterfactual, but we'll just a little schools. Well I mean I. I think that the outcome was over determined as you're going up against the great power, the age for. The better part of a century. It's very unusual that you're gonNA win. No colonized people a won its independence between will one were to accept the Irish in the entire colonized world. Nobody wants except the Irish, so you know you would have had have been exceptionally a gifted as a national movement to defeat colonials in the war period, and as I say only the Irish did so in nineteen, twenty two, as far as it could have done things differently. Of course, they could have done things differently. The reasons why they didn't are laid out in the book, but there were many moments when better choices could have been made when better strategies could have been adopted and should have been adopted. Details. Sales are just a couple of examples sure for example in the in the Middle East in the Inter war period. No, no, no country. Freed itself that was under external rule as were most. With the exception of Saudi Arabia and Yemen, all of none of the free themselves coin role, but the ones that revolted right after World War One the Iraqis and the Egyptians in particular got some form of independence forced the British to give them something. The Palestinians didn't rise until they thirty six big big mistake there they should have active much much earlier, and they might have gotten a change in these include extremely unfavorable circumstances imposed on them by the mandate for Palestine. I can give you other examples. Of they should have rejected the nineteen thirty nine white paper, a Britain was declining force in nineteen thirty nine, but still it would have put them in a different position in most of the Palestinian. Leadership was in favor of except that it was only the most. A sitting in exile in Beirut at the time who who opposed accepting the white paper, so there are many other examples could give what about after the war, though after the establishment of Israel do we had the same question in? Yeah then you come to the question of of Diplomatic the question that you asked at the end of diplomacy versus force it's a brutal reality that had the Palestinians not resorted to force they probably within the force themselves on the attention of the world. The policies of hijackings, the policies of a terrorist attacks you can call them whatever you want. Commando operations terrorist attack, using your language on civilians or on on military targets, which were militarily and strategically complete, completely unsuccessful succeeded in putting the Palestinians back as as it were on the map. Unfortunately, it also helps to picture them his terrorists, but that then was turned. A by the PLO into the springboard for a diplomatic offensive that was actually quite successful in the sixty seventies and eighties The the Palestinians became. A recognized actor on the world stage after decades in which Israel, the United States and others at assume they had been Owen there was no Palestine. There were no Palestinians there was a refugee issue of the the the resolution adopted after the nineteen sixty seven war doesn't mention the Palestine question or Palestine the Palestine's. Just resolution of the refugee problem. which refugees are they do? They have ended entity to. They have political demands not mentioned. It's a refugee problem. It's a humanitarian issue. That's the status of the Palestinians. In nineteen, sixty seven international Soviet Union voted for that resolution. Britain France United States. China voted that resolution so getting themselves to where they are recognized by over one hundred, whatever it is countries that they their leader addresses, the General Assembly nineteen seventy four is extraordinary change from the situation between nineteen, forty, eight and nineteen sixty seven, so that was a diplomatic strategy that I argue in the book was actually quite successful. And regardless of diplomatic strategies, there was you know maybe an unwitting one which was there's ideas de Dare I say a intifadas that actually changed the perception of the Palestinians, among public opinion in the West, but not so much thanks to diplomatic efforts on. Either shape, but because that's the way it was. It was really a watershed or I do the first Intifada was the second? Intifada was a disaster for the Pasta. I described the first intifada, the one that started in nineteen, seventy, eighty, seven, as one of the few Palestinian successes, because as you say, it accurately portrayed the conflict as one not between an Arab goliath in poor, tiny, innocent, little Israel under siege, but Much more correctly as the Palestinians alone in the field, unarmed against this colossus, which is the Israeli occupation so a little boy, throwing stone against the tank is an image which doesn't exactly something's up, but a lot a hell of a lot better. Than the way in which the conflict had been portrayed by Zionist propaganda over over generations, which is tiny, tiny little. Israel all the arbs destroy it by this stage by the time the Intifada has come about. Egypt is at peace with Israel. Jordan has been collaborating with Israel since before Israel's established. A most Arab countries are busy with their problems. Israel's faces no actual existential threat from the region and is beating up on the Palestinians and so. The the media image that emerges from the first intifada in my view is an enormous victory for the Palestinians and whether able to talk. But but you're also right. It's not something that's. It's premeditated or a result of strategy. It's a result of spontaneous uprise. Do you think that the Palestinian leadership capitalized on it in in a way that said well it seems like at the moment of the Antifa it led to the Palestinian leadership, or I should say the P. L. O. leadership at that time. What was the tunas leadership to change their attitude, or at least their public facing demands for Palestinians determination and formalize? Formalize the demand for a Palestinian state in the West Bank in Gaza, as opposed to all the other phases that you document in which I as was establishing an all Palestinian state at Palestinian Arab state, and then after that one democratic state, and this was sort of an evolution. Do you think that the intifada kind of galvanized or or somehow catalyzed that? Change of national self determination goal, and also more importantly in a allow the Palestinian leadership to speak openly about engaging with Israeli government. Yeah. I think that all all of what's implied in the question is essentially correct, which is to say that the Palestinians are tossing leadership is able. The L. Leadership is able to come out as it were a with their true intentions much more. After the Intifada end in one, thousand, nine hundred eighty declaration of independence is proof of what you're saying. However, anybody who white looked closely at the actual evolution of what was going on inside Palestinian politics as distinct from the entirely false vision of it. It's portrayed by Israeli government apologised, which is the bow are bloodthirsty terrorists who wanted to destroy us? They have no objective other than that anybody who looks at reality rather than this. This false construct will see that that's an evolution that ends as you as you say in nineteen eighty eight, but which really begins in the immediate aftermath of the seventy three war with the Palestine National, council taking a series of resolutions, starting in seventy, four, which adapts to accept the idea of a two-state solution, so they were, they were already going in that direction, the intifada that gives them as the platform as it were. To come out much more openly for. A diplomatic of the conflict. In fact, we know that they're begging to get into the diplomatic game much much before. This is early as the as early as the mid Seventies. Right, you document that I. Just think it's interesting that I mean I, want to challenge you a little bit because in the book you know you described to two particular, in addition to other events that were parts of the war on Palestine and I'm referring specifically to four to to UN Security Council resolution to fourteen and the Oslo process, both of which were considered wars on Palestine in your in. In your reading, but which today are considered the cornerstone of of of the legitimization for what many in the at least in the Israeli camp, considered the road to peace, which is a two state solution. So why are those wars on Palestine? If they could have actually advanced the idea of a two-state solution eventually, even if they didn't say so specifically at the time. Well two four two dozen to what you're saying to to does not set out the basis for a two state solution. No does the formula land for peace negotiations. But it lands egos in between Israel and Arab states, and there are the only actors that are envisaged into a and B. Given the escape clause. It's written into it. The territories occupied This is territory without the word that's not exactly territories occupied in the English version of of the resolution, which is the definitive once far as the only power that matters, which is the united. States is concerned. Israel enabled to keep the occupied territories for fifty three years in county, so it is not a basis for a two four two is not a resolution on the basis on which adjust and lasting peace, involving return of territories, occupied and sixty seven could have been made in wasn't meant to be. It was crafted. Enclosed in close coordination between the United States and Israeli diplomats. To give Israel all the leeway to extract whatever it wanted from the Arab states, while not necessarily giving back in fact in in the case of Palestinian territories, not giving back the tar trees there occupying sixty-seven, whether to Jordan or anybody else I mean we have since I. Don't talk about this in the book, but we have scenes from the Israeli side in multiple revelations of how often the Israelis stonewalled Jordan when it tried to starting right after sixty seven and going on for well over a decade ago when it tried to negotiate the return of the of the Jordanian control, the previously Jordanian controlled territories that were occupied sixty. Sixty seven so two four two is not that the Oslo process had that potential or might have had. I wouldn't say the also processes. The Madrid process might have had that potential, but again as I write in the book as I suggest in the book and another book I wrote specifically about Madrid, also there are various hidden time bombs written into the letter of invitation of the letters of the Sheri- is given to the various parties and the ground rules which in effect meant that you could not have a Palestinian state or rather Israel could prevent the establishment of the Palestinian state with the full approval of the United States. Okay, so how do we start to tie this all together? We've exposed the miss we've you know tried to expose the war. You've tried to expose the war. What you consider a war against Palestine. And what do you think the Palestinian National Movement should do now? You point out a few directions in the conclusion. One of them I think is particularly interesting. which is you you argue for the effectiveness of making the parallels between the Palestinian situation and other conflicts or colonial conflicts or other kinds of conflicts in the world. How do you think that we take the information that you've been examining and leverage it to point out the way forward? Well. You know. I'm a historian. I'M NOT A. Politician. I'm nine I'm focal strategists so I get to ask questions that no, no, of course, it's appropriately. It's a perfectly legitimate question, but I I don't think that I have the you know the answer to the political question. If I did you know I would be a politician. Probably fail like most politicians, but I think that I think it would I try and lay out. Here is the arguments that should be made i. think the arguing how many states condense on the head of a pen is futile. We have a one st reality created by Israel carefully crafted by Israel over fifty three years, starting with the first decisions made after the occupation is made. By Labor governments and continuing especially with a special a vengeance and power, but with the government dominated by the good from seventy seven. And that's a reality that could be changed backwards. What Tony Judd One said what any politician has done. Another politician can undo is of course true. You could. rewind extract of a of six hundred seven hundred thousand settlers from the occupied territories. You, could you know take apart the Matrix of control, but I don't think that's likely to happen I. Think we have a one st reality and the question is what kind of state is GonNa be? Is it going to be the kind of discriminatory? Repressive a state dominated by what is probably now minority of the total population of Palestine between the river in the. Is it going to be a different politics? How you get to to where you don't have discrimination in where whether you're born in New York, or Amana? Whatever you, you want to be a citizen of this thing, you can come there and not only this group can go, and not that good can how you get it I don't know I. Really Don't know I had no idea but I think that's I think that the arguments that I lay out. Against the. Status Quo, our arguments at least should be considered by anybody WHO's want is engaged in trying to change that sets fusing that the misconception about all those issues in public opinion in the West is really what prevents things from moving forward, and perhaps with your book, your endeavouring in a way to try and change that I think we'll trying to say. Is there a polemical aspect to your book? No, no, no, no! Let me answer. I sincerely believe. That inspite of the national reality that Zionism is created in spite of the independent separate existence of an Israeli nation state. that. The project was an is. Always was and still is dependent on external support Israel doesn't do what it does. Without external support, it doesn't operate as it operates without the incredible economic exchange with the EU without the incredible, technological, military and especially financial support from the private sector in this country, not just from the US government that it that it enjoys. Changing that external situation for Israel changes that balance. The Palestinians of course as I argue. In the book very very forcefully have to get their act together. It's not just a matter of changing the situation abroad in Europe in the United States it's not just a matter of changing opinion inside Israel or changing the it, you have to change the balance of forces between the Palestinians and Israel, which is entirely or largely in Israel's favor right now. It has been for a very long time and to do that. The Palestinians have to. Reform reestablish regenerate their national movement, which is in a parlous terrible state, right? And have to clarify their strategic objectives, which is which is something that is sorely lacking. Right now. And they also have to go back to some of the strategies that served in in the past, which is appealing to people around the world, and also appealing to Israelis, which they utterly failed to do in the current circumstance, which doesn't mean quote, unquote normalization. What it means is making a case for Palestine to Israelis. The Israelis can understand in Hebrew. The people who are closest to being able to do that or Palestinians inside Israel. Palestinian citizens of the state of Israel they're the ones who understand Zionism better than anybody. They all speak Hebrew. They grew up in their Israelis sunk. Some of them are more Israeli than other Israelis. But that whether was air, leadership, or through an evolution of consciousness of that's going to have to happen among the Palestinians so they can be the braves. The Palestinian citizens of Israel can be the bridge the bridge they they already are. They already are I mean everything we know much of what we know we've learned from either poets from inside Israel or or literary figures politics I. Mean The the the role that they've already played in in in. Expanding Palestinian understanding of Israel and Zionism is enormous. And they'll do much more than in the future whether legally or in terms of their involvement in Isreaeli politics or whatever but but I go back to the core of the question. I sincerely believe that Israel is in some fundamental ways dependent on the liberal democracies in the West. End of Israel is increasingly illiberal. And increasingly a and has increasingly moved towards a kind of discrimination that is fundamentally unacceptable to liberal democracies. Now there are countries in the west of the cease to be liberal democracies. Poland and Austria and Hungary are moving rapidly away from liberal democracy. Trump does not represent a liberal democratic trend in the United States, quite the contrary. Those trends may may rise in the future if they do in Israel is in a great position. It already has wonderful relations with the most autocratic countries on earth, Russia China and increasingly illiberal democracy in. India don't forget I could go on and on I. Mean All of the countries I mentioned Israel has excellent relations with. All of Eastern European countries that are moving to the right but. Ultimately it is dependent on on Western. Europe in the United States in some ways some fundamental ways. If opinion as and when opinion changes here, and it is changing in the United States there is absolutely no question that is changing in the Jewish community among young people among minorities among the base of the Democratic Party even among the ossified. Long standing supporters of Israel who control in lead the Democratic Party and fund the Democrat. Party even among those people. There are changes, even they the polls. as those as as those evolutions, take place in spite of the push back the money in the power that's inserted into trying to turn Palestinian activism, anti-semitism, work or frame. It is by the incredible efforts in York to shut down any discussion of Palestine in spite of that there is there is fundamental change going on, and it hasn't when that happens. Israel is going to have a real problem. The IT doesn't change. The it doesn't solve the problem, but it's GonNa. It's GonNa. Be a very important factor. Well, change is on its way. Somehow we don't know what form it will take, but in the meantime I wanNA. Thank you. That's a professor Rasheed highly who's been speaking to us from New York. Thank you for being on the show again. Thanks for having me energy big thanks to shell them in Georgia Foscarini our producers once again to the Israel Office of the Konrad, Adenauer Foundation for sponsoring the series, no request, many or most of you listen to us on the apple podcasts. APP and we'd like to ask you to please consider writing us a review. We like good ones. Bad ones annoyed ones. You can also support us by going to our website. T L V ONE DOT FM slash Tel Aviv. Review and subscribing are Patriot campaign. Check out our archive. We have over five hundred interviews like us on facebook. Follow Me Gilaad on twitter and join us again next week for another edition of the Tel Aviv review, and until then good bye.
Friday 6 September
"You are listening to the briefing first broadcast on the sixth of september two thousand nineteen on monocle twenty four the briefing is brought to you in partnership with rolex. Hello and welcome to the briefing coming to you live from studio one here at midori house in london i._m. Margus hippie coming up robert mugabe arrived in power in the regard of african decolonisation. Southern rhodesia was the last african country to be formerly freed from its former colonial alone. You'll overlord. He leaves this life as hopefully one of the final incarnations of the old school african tinpot despot zimbabwe's former ruler robert mugabe. He has died at the age of ninety five. We'll be crossing live to the nation's capital harare to discuss. He's legacy also ahead. We'll be asking whether weather an unofficial election. Campaign is getting underway in the united kingdom plus on hannah wilson monaco bureau chief in tokyo and i'll be looking at some of the stories making making the news in japan. Thanks fiona bless the latest on new york fashion week and fernando shaker. We'll have his global count down to all that right here on the briefing with me markus heap robert robert mugabe the former leader of zimbabwe has toys. He was ninety five in a moment. We'll be guessing reaction from the country's capital harare but i here's monaco's contributing editor andrew miller in this matter as in many others one can do little better than to defer to the judgment of archbishop desmond tutu speaking in two thousand and two south african nobel peace laureate offered an unim- provable summation of the trajectory chartered by robert mugabe during his interminable tenure in office. It is said to a great sadness what does happen to president mugabe. He was one of africa's best leaders a bright spark a debonair well-spoken i and well read person but he seems to have gone bonkers in a big way in the decade and then some that elapsed after two to offer this elegant epitaph tough robert mugabe did not improve indeed longer his rule lasted the more it reminded that things can always get worse mugabe's attitude to zimbabwe especially especially in his later years resembled little so much as a board and decrepit sven gali contemptuously contemplating his proteges. I made you and i can break you. Whereas imbaba was concerned. It is arguable that robert mugabe did both robert mugabe was born on february twenty first nineteen twenty four in zvimba district near nearest city then called salisbury in a territory then called southern rhodesia the idea that mugabe or the same color mugabe would one day command power over the region in salisbury would become harare or that southern rhodesia would become zimbabwe would have been regarded as preposterous it was indeed held to be unthinkable by my mini white descendants of africa's colonizers right up to and even in many cases after the moment it actually happened. Mugabe's death will attract precisely really no one of the lament and tribute earned by that of his approximate contemporary nelson mandela the two men had roughly congruent careers up to a point both took took up arms against the white minority government in mugabe's case briefly with zimbabwe african people's union and then with the zimbabwe african national union later known as zanu p._f. P._f. Both men spent time in prison. Mugabe was turned between nineteen sixty four in one thousand nine hundred seventy four both became the first leader of a hopeful new version russian of the country. They'd fought to liberate mugabe became prime minister of zimbabwe in nineteen eighteen and president in nineteen eighty seven there however the comparisons end mugabe albee altogether lacking mandela's chom humility capacity for forgiveness and common sense of lord acton dictum that absolute power corrupts absolutely it could be no better illustration than mugabe in office he imprisoned or murdered opponents real and imagined by the thousand unleashing his infamous north korean trained fifth brigade against political opponents matabeleland. He rigged elections reduced to beggary a country which had everything it needed to prosper at one point presiding over if the world's most swiftly shriveling economy and in the summer of two thousand eight hyper inflation comparable with the terminal thrashings of weimar germany in two two thousand nine shortly after zimbabwe found itself trying to fit all zeros in one hundred trillion onto a single banknote the currency was abandoned entirely in favour favor of money from many of the countries mugabe frosting lee insisted was still plotting against his revolution like there was any need symboblic having no worse enemy than its own in president what remained of mugabe's judgment deserted him in late two thousand seventeen when he sacked his vice president and long-serving consiglieri and masin managua agla within days mugabe was removed from office in what was effectively a coup d'etat barely disguised as parliamentary procedure the deal under which he eventually agreed ready to resign. They included a payment of ten million dollars that zimbabwe needed more than he did an immunity from prosecution which would have been as deserved as it would have been overdue. I'm robert mugabe arrived in power in the regard of african decolonisation. Southern rhodesia was the last african country to be formerly freed from its former colonial loan. You'll overlord. He leaves this life as hopefully one of the final incarnations of the old school african tinpot despot bound for the same corner of history's rogues gallery armenian twat mobutu bokassa and gaddafi thank you that's worse andrew miller now. I'm joined on the line from harare by craze. Return to <hes> who is zimbabwe and writer journalist stunned longtime critic of robert mugabe. Thanks for joining us grace. What has the reaction been like sued this news in harare <hes> confusing but <hes> in some cases we have hit some people who are wishing he's <hes> soul oh to rest in peace but other really <hes> saying that they don't see anything because e stole the future and <hes> the mostly the young people i said that he's going and <hes> i think because he is also died when when he's been out of power we he's become quite insignificant against kent otherwise it would have meant a bit more. Maybe two people in if he had died in power but most young people don't say anything at all. I've been speaking to young people this morning in something that they don't do anything they just feel like disrupt the future. What is robert mugabe's legacy. What is your view well. He's legacy is that he tried to discipline your whole tribe and that would leave long after his death. People will remember him is the man who tried to disengage the people in material and in the midlands you also to away comes from white farmers in they by killing the country's agriculture but you also destroyed the hill system. He is a man who destroyed the country still system in but but <hes> was <hes> fortunate enough to be able to get the best health treatment for himself died comfortably in singapore. <hes> something that's involved wisconsin ford ford we have good people who are dying from cancer and they can't afford cancer drugs because they are so expensive so his legacy has been mad by the fact that he must he butchered human rights peace on the he's pet on the rule of law and and <hes> mocked the very young people that slipped this country because they had no choice economy hit collapsed in the country to go either to the u._k. To to america because south africa to wake in sometimes in menial jobs and he mocked them he had no empathy. He was arrogant so it's hard to actually we. She's spirit <hes> <hes> to rest in peace. <hes> i am sorry that you've lost their pissing. They loved but <hes> discuss these rule will forever forever linger other many people in zimbabwe who were on robert mugabe's site until the end they way people in east patchy who on his side side but <hes> i don't. I think it would be wrong to say they were on his side. They were on the side of patronage. They supported him because they were gaining something out of him. Because the moment we stepped in they switched their support to mnangagwa's yet they had been condemning mnangagwa's just if if if we call so before four and the moment that got out of power they already now saying nasty things about him so it's hard to say that there are lots of people who support him but he's still some supporters because they people who benefited from his patronage system in those to support him in. I think they are feeding the pain rights eight now and just finally great how wilbur defor robert mugabe change things in zimbabwe. Is this going to help the country move forward. I'm afraid creditwatch <hes> robert mugabe alive into into place a system that was meant to suppress and to due to suppress these people that system continues to this day. We've only changed leadership but not the system that was put in place by rowbottom gabby so so i do not believe that he's going to change anything. It's not going to bring people together. It's <hes> it's not going to make our situation bitter the economic economic situation bitter grace onto our in the harare. Thank you very much for this. You're listening to the briefing on monocle twenty four now with a look at the day's other. All the news headlines in here is daniel bauge. Thank you marcus hong. Kong is preparing for widespread demonstrations including plan to block traffic to its international airport. The city-state's embattled later carrie. Lam has withdrawn the controversial extradition bill that sparked the initial protests months ago but the mu has failed to appease many activists. They say they will not give up on their other key demands including a call for an inquiry into alleged police brutality. Germany's chancellor angela merkel has said the trade war between china and the united states states affects the whole world and that she hopes the countries will soon be able to resolve their differences miracle made remarks at the start of formal talks with the chinese leadership in beijing and today's montel minute is taking a closer look at new york fashion week which is getting underway in the big apple later today. Stay tuned to hear our fashion fashion editor. Jamie waters explained how this season might throw up a few surprises. Those are some of the day's headlines now back to you marcus. Thank you very much l. You're you are listening to the briefing on. Monocle twenty four will be back right after this coming soon monica rolex. Bring you the pioneers. The pioneers is a brand new series that tells the stories of people improving the planet. You'll hear how exports these innovators with whom they share a passion to safeguard safeguard in the f- future generations gain insight into the fresh thinking that is disrupting received wisdom for the better and learn how phyllis action continues to be the crucial official. Try that a change the pioneers coming soon to be twenty four <music>. It is time now for more detail to look at some of the other stories aureus in today's news agenda for our panel. Today we are joined by the cold war historian researcher and screenwriter alex fong johnson and robert fox defense editor for the london evening standard. Welcome both through this program. Let's begin in the u._k. Where the embattled prime minister boris johnson has been making moves over the past twenty eighty four hours. That's have the distinct hair off the beginnings of an election campaign. He made a speech pictured trump like informed in front of an authoritarian lineup of police officers and he has also been visiting towns in the north of england to try and please crowds most stove. These crowds have told him to go straight back to london or brussels even hear us how some of those winds pay gains. Why people want asu is to leave the european union okay. Let's fantastic in your when you should be in brussels negotiating. Where's the negotiation association going on. Where is it. You're getting moly in these should be in brussels leading the british people to negotiate against leaving the european unfortunately playing games what boris jones respite doing looks like someone gearing up for an election but there's no election dates yet. What are we looking at over here well. We're looking increasingly at what looks like a mess. I mean boris. Johnson has said he doesn't want election then. He said he does want an election. I mean even sort of contradicting himself in in sentences one after another i don't want to do i don't <hes> i mean the truth. Is that obviously he does <hes> they're in a situation of deadlock now <hes> and i think he probably thinks the best chance of getting to this kind of thirty first deadline is to get majority now and he thinks he does done some chance of that gains jeremy corbyn the labor party of couse rose is now having wanted an election for time is now disinclined to support that and that's because they want really i mean the certainly a movement within the labour party to push that date date passed the thirty first of october so that boris misses his key pledge to take britain out of the you will not date <hes> so now we have of course the loss of the conservative majority the in house of commons means that they're really not in a position to force through legislation on that <hes> so it looks like on monday <hes> corbin will actually decline nine t push for an election and then then who knows what will happen next exactly. We just got the news the labor and other u._k. Opposition parties have agreed not to back prime minister shimon for general election before october's e you somebody's robert. What is your take on. What is happening right now. In this country and what boris johnson is up to there are two things one is the immediate factor which is the personality of boris johnson whom i have known well in my journalistic career but he is behaving and almost more bizarre than any of us could have expected only the most ardent supporters know supporters very interesting how the conservative party follow boris has just left its moorings as a conservative party of more like a cult. It is actually what stood i think it was at whole called about thatcher's era gra gosh knits mild compared with this as <hes> <hes> authoritarian populism and that's why as we have seen boris doesn't really take parliament's column very seriously. It's really just a beauty contest for him. <hes> and for particularly for dom cummings who's not even a tory even by pays lip service but he's probably more concentrated more focus has to chief of staff. It's actually where the chief of staff is running the commander of the moment prediction yes the will be an election. I think that if the opposition is clever they'll push it as alex was saying beyond the thirty first of october halloween a deadline but that could be very dangerous because he doesn't look like much like one exception to some sort of wickham on dimension but it will be boris the martyr then i'd like to go. I don't wanna hog the conversation about the election. The dynamics of that election now look quite extra ordinary. Let's let's talk about that interested minutes considering that we would boris johnson has done already. He's made it quite clear that he's he's willing to try. Hey to bend the rules. Obviously this country doesn't have a written constitution but he's still being causing controversy with. Some physicians. Alex seem snow election day. It has been formally announced. Is it really so that boris johnson east northbound by election rules and regulations at all does he basically have have all the freedom to basically to pain however he wants. I mean that's the suspicion of what he's doing now but i think the past week has been so extraordinarily disastrous bruce <hes> that whistle to seeing why perhaps during the conservative leadership contest his handlers wouldn't let him speak. I mean you know even the speech in front of the police officers yesterday that you mentioned and which drew lots of criticism looking very trumpian <hes> and also one of the poorest fainted during speeches went on but it was a very rambling incoherent completely incoherent very unfocussed rambling. He tried to sort of repeat. The police caution couldn't get it right and i mean you sort of. I think boris is sort of built this reputation as somebody who is sort of you know this shambolic lovable rogue you know kind of affable of that but i'm not sure that really counts it for primary prime ministerial professionalism and certainly certainly not with such a big issue is leaving the e._u. So the question is whether this is really working for him. I mean i think that is what he's trying to do is to begin to build build some momentum but ameen and whether that will carry through i think an election campaign who knows what could come out of it i mean of course he is against corbin who also is very unpopular in some ways but it's i. I think the pieces could only go henny weigh robot. You already gave us some idea of what to expect from boris johnson next but looking at looking at what boris johnson stuns for you said that we didn't really expect him to behave quite like this as a prime minister. Do you think he may change his stance and do think we may get to know different boris johnson. Just give it a month or two. I've been looking into his eyes. I'm afraid he's looking like a drowning man and he's looking for a message theme and that's why the election campaign. He won't be the dominant figure curiously <hes> on his side. The dominant figure will be nigel farraj who will make it very very clear from very early on the boris. Johnson is his prisoner and the other person lost. My head is going to be jeremy corbyn because this is where to use bosom you could misunder estimate in very seriously precisely because the one thing that jeremy loves is out of doors campaigning the third element we have to introduce. This is dominic cummings and his game theory. I we go back to <hes> cambridge. Analytica all these mind games and they will do do that damnedest by hook. Oh by crook. I say even with the assistance of foreign powers to target those at the the kind kind of adaptable <hes> persuadable element that they identified so brennan in the brexit campaign and trump supporters so brilliantly the identified in his election campaign. Many people say that this is something boris johnson as worse as the time for the persuadable. 's it's only about one hundred thousand. There's so many people know boris say that he's been aiming to become the u._k. Prime minister for the whole office live. Do you think what do you think is thinking at the moment. Do you think he may actually come to realize that he must be very good in the job of being a prime minister. I mean you diesel to fill out the monkeys. Pour might be twitching. Don't you sort of be careful. What you you wish for <hes>. I can't imagine he's how to toby enjoyable week. I'm sure he's not loving it and i mean you know the public reaction. Him does not seem good <hes> he doesn't seem to do well unstaged managed or stage-managed appearances and his brother even leaving the government yesterday was of course rather rift and i mean we will have to see what it happens because it's such a volatile time that who knows how long he will even be in this job. I mean you know if <hes> if an election does come soon as i said i do think the outcome of that could actually go almost almost any way and i do think robots have city right to bring up the point about nigel farraj who knows whether <hes> restaurants nausea farraj already had talks done a deal of some sorts and what fragile demands and whether that will help mahinda three things against bro boris which not being factored speaking with an accent like this myself accent class and the region and there are a lot of people in the northern part of england forget about scotland forget about wales who just cannot stick him. Let's leave you can continue. We need to easily wear. The nation has a new coalition governments. The arrangement is between the centre-left democratic party and the anti-establishment five star movement. The country's previous government made up of the five star movement and too far right leak positively simply collapsed it means the country might now be able to rebuild some mm bridges with the e._u. But skeptics think the new coalition might north last long robot. Should we be optimistic about this. New coalition polish depends where you come from. It's moving in the opposite direction to boris brexit but if i could be just lapse into the <hes> of an acura <hes> cloth aroma manatt though <hes> roussell it was born in brussels this this coalition and it's been sworn in in in rome this deal was agreed at the g seven summit and bear rich curiously because it got the nod from from angela merkel as important both very close allies very coast market a bucket swiftly and from mccaw but the crucial sufa who seems to have her hand and she hasn't shown it too much but it's absolutely clear. It's there in many of the key appointments. Appointments is a vonda line. This is the italy that she can deal with. I must say this is not to diss <hes> to usc or or or or or the commission <hes> <hes> undergone care because they always really rather liked kante but what they have done don and this is want it curiously the party that emerged from the old italian <hes> p._c._i. Communist party the democratic party is really playing the european cod because you know use riling with europol the time as firefox kiss and the others did eighteen greece. This is what they've worked tied and this is. That's why you see these very very key. Figures is a former prime. Minister is going to be the commissioner dente loney and there is this man roberto guatieri who is a very important chair of the economics committee in the european. Parliament is going to be the finance minister. This has got the blessing. I mean even the pope has plastic tested but he's got the <hes> the blessing from brussels and its intelligent to do that because the main things it's got to do. It's gotta get unemployment down but above all it's got to get the economy going and got get investment going. I think if it lasts a year we'll have done well but it does look more solid than the league. The right wing left wing thing although these two have sworn at each other. I've been quite absolutely so in very bad language in the past. They are quite natural allies alex looking ashby happening in recent years. What's your conclusion. How strong is the european union considering. That's the union has been dealing with number of issues to deal with italy brexit and say also euroscepticism in many east european nations right and greece and all sorts of other things that you could bring up some fairly major crises and and how you you handle the euro. I mean i think the e._u. Is always going to face for have however long. It does exist. It will always face difficulty because it's such a huge aaron. So many different interests chryssa countries being brought together and it's always going to have to be an evolving project and it's a question really of how it can respond. I think to a lot of these changes and crises. This is that will happen and i mean certainly one of the current issues is the right riser sort of authoritarian nationalism and the fall right in populism across europe in various areas forms <hes> often that does come with a sort of anti u <hes> ideology and we'll see brexit is is kind of you know is really what real oh focus on but it is happening in other places like italy there is criticism and i think you know in criticism of the u. is obviously one level absolutely right and fair and should be happening so really. I think it's a question of how they respond to to that. How <hes> the e._u. Can perhaps make its appeal a little bit more obvious. I think perhaps it hasn't really you know a lot of people don't necessarily thirty note does do think of it rather sort of faceless agency and perhaps a very bureaucratic and perhaps it does need to be a little more responsive rob. You think the us actually strong stronger than we have thought yes it is and i think i think the british have hopelessly <hes> underestimated. I think it's it's a weakness of british culture which is way behind and european culture. I spend a lot of time and very enjoyable in profitably in both the netherlands and in italy which are going to be two of the really strong powers in and behind <hes> they'll take britain's position by the way those two together <hes> want. I think we completely underestimate is the the new leadership uh of the p._d. Which is nicola zingaretti younger brother of a very famous actor. Luca plays <hes> inspector montauban but very very bright very smart very european savvy in a way that only the british civil servants were boris was a correspondent in brussels. He really hasn't clue about how much a of europe works because boris's tendency was to see it as a joke. It's very interesting. The only thing that converges as alex twisting between italy and britain is the position of bar boris and matteo salvini who has taken this very bad of the right wing nationalist anti the migrant lead at he has tweeted this morning something which is pure boris. We will work more than ever. We will not <hes> ah we cannot escape. The judgment of the italian people we are ready at time is our gentlemen and on our side and that could have been boris because to answer a previous question doing bars on you. Boris always thought god knows why he was a man of destiny only this week he has has been comparing himself to the greatest roman emperors caesar augustus and has continued to germany finally where a couple of stories are generating mystery and intrigue possibly veering hiring into conspiracy territory hopefully our panel already to debunk a few of them and environmental monitoring station as being lost off of germany's coast with very little explanation about wars occurred. Some wild theories are flying around just really quickly. What do you think happened. Oh well i mean obviously i think it was a kaiji. I imagine it was japanese. Monster that just came up from the lochner team pacific rim. I'm sure it's a documentary yeah we got to the heart of the matter and spoke to the scientists in charge of this monitoring station and the truth seems a little more straightforward here is professor herrmann bunga off summa speaking to monaco home continuous cabled observatory so it works continuously so we are recommending <hes> and a high resolution the what the temperature salinity trace gas concentrations and occurrence in eckenfoerde which is close to kill in germany so we continuously monitoring the signals else <hes> from the observatory and <hes> <hes> in on the first of august we <hes> thing <hes> <hes> nations <hes> stopped upped and we were wondering what happened and this happened from time to time and we were thinking about maybe water came in also but then we went there to comfort obey. We had <hes> team of divers with us. They went down and had a look and then they recognize that the complete devices to frames were <hes> weapons on and <hes> i mean i i you surprised the international attention. Why did you think people are very interested in this really applies to international attention. I have to say <hes> yeah. I don't know why people are interesting because it seemed to be mysteries but it's not mr as at all i mean most likely fishermen caught it and by accident and we about to to have look andrea do some kind of search <hes> now and we are hoping to find it in the next week or so <hes>. Do you think that people just enjoy a mystery. They they kind of enjoy looking for something that maybe just isn't the it's interesting <hes> than just <hes> looking resigned from the torius sure there is out there interesting. Thank you so much. Y'all come. We seem so the truth wasn't wasn't that exciting after all alex what do you what do you think we also directed to believing the unbelievable well. I think she says it relates of course a bit of a mystery is fun and i think that's what people flopping with this story at anything. You want seriously thinks it's been stolen by aliens or japanese monsters. <hes> i do think that you know sort of the general kind of belief in conspiracy theories is perhaps apps some symptoms something slightly different is more about people don't really understanding how the world works and sort of assuming there must be some forces controlling it on that there must be secrets to be uncovered when quite often things sort of raises suggests things are actually just most employ- explanation is quite often true. We we should also talk about the german city of bielfeld who tourist aboard is now actively encouraging half truths in order to generate publicity. It's recently launched a campaign campaign based on a spurious local in joke. That claims that the city doesn't actually exist rob. What do you think authorised both missing trick over here <hes> yes i think so because it's it's very <hes> interesting because even a chance to anger burkle who for some reason in the u._k. Has a reputation of having no sense of humor. Everybody i know that knows how or even asthmatic quite casualties says privately she has an absolutely terrific sense of humor and she speech and i am in belfast said or not as you want to believe and she absolutely a buys into this the secret entrance to the lost kingdom of atlantis and so on good for baylor felt good for you good for mrs mirko to show we're going to miss out to there is also beautiful spiracy theory claiming that my home country finland doesn't exist either but i'm not sure if that has hugely benefited my country's tourism industry alex. Do you think post bricks in the u._k. Would need some conspiracy theories like this. Oh i'm sure we'll have a few and i'm afraid i'm not a huge supporter of them. Generally as a cold war historian i spend quite a lot of time trying to debunk punk them in various ways but yes i mean you know there are the fun ones and then the less on one but i certainly think in the case of bill. It's quite a fun thought experiments as well. I mean it sort of makes me think slightly louis of <hes> bojangles famous article the gulf war never happened. Which is you know is sort of easily contradicted in one way but another way actually is quite a thoughtful deconstruction of how do we know things things happen. How do we create our knowledge and i think perhaps in the era of fake news and all sorts of things that actually sort of critical thinking about how we construct our knowledge is is actually something quite interesting. It's very interesting. It's the seventeenth nineteenth century argument solipsism hasn't gotten hooked on bishop barkley. Did how do we know anything beyond our an experience by the way this will be tested to brexit to breaking point in the brexit <hes> campaign which will be dirty and messy and i think that the determining coming medium ugly will not be broadcasting or social media or electronic it will be print robert folk sons alex phone sons lament. Sadly we have to end it there. Thank you very much for joining us here in the briefing and let's take a look at some of the stories that are making the news in japan now. I'm joined cylinder lined by monocle tokyo bureau bureau chief wilson. Thanks for joining us fiona. Shall we start with the ongoing trade war between japan and south korea. It seems to be hitting japan's beer industry raw the heart that's right. There was some extraordinary figures that popped up this week that showed japan's im- the import of japanese bear in south korea it had dropped absolutely massively ninety seven percent <hes> it's gone down to the poultry two hundred twenty thousand dollars and it was up well over seven million at at the same time last year so it's just a sign of this ongoing spat between japan and south korea it doesn't take much to sour relations between between these two countries but this has taken a rather ugly turn because usually it happens diplomatic level but they're really starting to hit each other economically now we have. Have you seen anything like this in japan. Have we seen any boycott of south korean goods there. Do you know what's interesting. I think this story could be replicated. In many <hes> places across the world where you have the former colonizer and the former colonized. I think for the south koreans it's a much more emotional issue. They react very very quickly to anything a perceived as a slight by japan or any sign that they're not acknowledging what happened in the past they react very very quickly and i probably their absolute irritation japan generally generally. They don't really react japanese. People still go to south korea. They'll still by south korean music. They don't react quite so quickly so it's a bit one sided at the moment but <hes> shinzo abe's suddenly being aggressive in in his approach to this subject and you know he's really <hes> attacked south korea on on the economic front on and i think a lot of people are worried that will of course it could escalate beer is just one example but i mean you know very very critically. You know it's it's restricting exports of of chemicals <hes> a critical to japan took south korea's semiconductor industry which now south korea's making chips for all the people that that we products we use every day eighth apple whoever so it could have a global impact before too long. Is there any reason to believe that we might see the relations between saw screw and japan improve. Leave him in the near future well. It's it's an ongoing relic of a colonial past. Japan was in charge in south korea between one thousand nine hundred nineteen eighteen forty five and it still felt quite bitterly in particularly in south korea and really it stems back to that and really the heart of this this battle. It's historical grievance. Now that that quite difficult to fix those japan feels that it was all sold in nineteen sixty five when the two countries normalised relations an extended hall half a billion in dollars worth of grants and loans and they say japan says it's all resolved and careers shouldn't keep bringing it up in these court cases where people are demanding compensation 'compensation for working for japan during the war. Japan says the whole thing was resolved in nineteen sixty five south korean government should shut down these cases obviously in south korea. It's far more emotive and they they look at it very differently. We're looking at some other news headlines from your neck of the woods sweeping hearing from uniqlo's billionaire phone deter sheehan now. He says that he wants a woman to succeed him telling me more well. This is an interesting to tadashi and i is. He's the richest man in japan roughly worth of twenty five billion dollars just to give you an idea <hes> and he's seventy. He's the founder fast retailing among its many companies is uniqlo. <hes> you know in uniqlo the these accompanies together we're making about nineteen billion dollars loss g._s. Oh it's a very very serious <hes> operation and you know sorry sorry to say but as he's approached seventy every interview he's pretty much asked who's going to succeed and obviously he doesn't want to make speculation <hes> too march the moment because he's he keeps saying. I'm not retiring you. I'm not retiring but interestingly a very recent interview. He suddenly said the blue well. I think the jobs more suited to a woman now. I mean i think the spirit of it was rather interesting and very positive his reasons were. I'm not i'm not sure women would be that thrilled because he said women. They persevered via the detail oriented. They have an ascetic sense may not may or may not be true but that was what he said. He's making a big effort to increase increase. The number of senior management roles are filled by women <hes> they've thirty percent which is way above the national average the national average for senior level execs tax cut <hes> publicly traded companies is running it really assad four percent just over four percent so he is making an effort but you know what he says has really matters because they have stores all over the world and everyone's thinking <hes> he must have someone in mind to their now looking for the candidate is interesting to see who that new head of that business is going to be in the future but now exciting news the hotel okumura is finally opening its new building. Many of us were part broken. When the original core of a stimulus back in two thousand fifteen via you went to the press review today. What have you seen well. It was quite an extraordinary experience so the hotel helping the south wing has been running continuously but the main building was demolished in two thousand fifteen being closed for four years open today had this very very famous lobby the we featured in monocle big fans of it. You know really amazing <hes> artwork really the whole lobby and they have recreated in the new hotel. Tell to salt to degree. I mean it took my breath away and i took a photograph. I just couldn't believe it. It is so identical to the old lobby. It's it's absolutely remarkable and and i noticed although he doesn't like to be interviewed <hes> sister taniguchi who's the architect of the the the new yorker and the son of the original architect of the okra he was walking around and i think he was probably just quite curious to see the reaction but you know the the absolute reception of so many members of the press turned out. I think every japanese newspaper tv crews and we had a good round. It's a remarkable piece of work. It's a billion dollars has been spent and it's now instead of one smallish building. It's now two towers one of them's forty one floors and the other one seventeen so it's a very different kind of setup it's shiny gloss now but they have tried very very hard to recreate the original lobby and go many original features and i have to say i saw many familiar faces from the old opera so the staff of all come back and forth so you know you've got these famous balls the orchid kit ball which is very famous the orchid dressed. They've come back. They look quite different actually but you know you still have the tea ceremony room and <hes> the the ghost ceylon on-the-go ceylon which is kind of japanese chest that they were features of the old hotel they've brought them back and so it's an interesting mix of absolutely new and very anybody familiar quite disconcerting today. Monica funeral soon have their thank you very much for joining us here in the briefing <music> after tokyo where go into cross to berlin to get the latest on europe's largest technology conference i._f._a. F._a. our very own david feeling is there. Welcome back to the program david so so we start so we start with some news in regard student you mobile phones new announcement by by sony yes this isn't necessarily the bread and butter of a show like if a witch focuses on t._v.'s and washing machines and audio equipment but the have been a couple of phones announced here and most notably the experience five from sony which is similar to the one that's the flagship they they launched earlier in the year apart from having slightly smaller screen <hes> but is significantly cheaper and includes almost every other feature from the more expensive phoning leading triple camera and a lot of very good battery techniques and even now an advice system so that if you're taking photographs in someone blinks <hes> it will tell you before you take the picture of you've got your finger in front of the lens. It'll say what are you doing. Oh you idiot not quite in those words almost and this seems to be have caught a lot of attention at the show today well as you mentioned mobile. I am not always in the focus. When it comes to comes to fair but what have you been seeing in the frontal of say television off your home appliances and so forth yes asses but there's been a lot of that as always is a pie masonic a completely transparent television. They've shown that as a prototype before well. It's just a sheet of glass in a wooden frame <hes> but they've now redesigned it a and then when you tell us on it it becomes a t._v. With with a really detailed picture the problem with the <hes> transparent these glass is you cannot get the contrast levels. You can't get deep black colors. Well panasonic has found a way round that and when it's working teams the t._v. It's every bit as good as the lead t._v.'s in their range and they finally announced that it will be coming to <hes> to to to mock it next year everyone <hes> hussein it the fourth oh well this is great but it's going to cost that much no more make it well. They didn't reveal the price but it is going to go on sale next year so that's something staying with uh stomach <hes> some other interesting broder prototypes when it comes to wellness gadgets including a head band that promises to re grow hair and head massage sanitizers the scarf how excited as the public over there in berlin. I had to look at it. The headband band is quite dull looking and i didn't actually get to to to to i mean my has grown backs inside are on because it wasn't actually really working <hes> but it uses ultraviolet light and <hes> that that's apparently what will cause your head to go from twenty percents of your scalp scalp coveted head to eighty percent often ninety days. That's what they're claiming <hes> so in that sense if anyone can create a cure for baldness. I think that will <hes> generate a loss of excitement fisher the i'm not sure about the <hes> the massaging and sanitizing of the scout. I'm sure it's very good for you but yeah it's part of a wellness range of prototypes that they say a three to five years away from manufacturer. Tell me also what some songs air dresser is all about. That's another interesting interesting product scene in berlin. It's quite curious. I've just been looking at actually if you can imagine a a sort of a wardrobe <hes> and indeed you can't use it just hanging space but it's not just a wardrobe because it it's you hang your clothes up and it cleans it doesn't wash them but it uses power food jets of add to clean them it it it uses steam to sanitize them so it gets rid of <hes> germs and then it's got heat so it dries them gently in a a deodorizers declared as well so it's sort of brilliant but of course the problem is you can only put a few comments in a time and so it doesn't substitute not for real wardrobe and it is quite big <hes> so it takes a lot of space and <hes> i in your i guess in your bedroom <hes> but i'm not sure that everyone will want to give that much space but it is a cold. It's a collider and just finally david. It's the fortieth anniversary of walkman the portable sociable music player how much or how to which extent on how has that been celebrated over there where you are this a special fortieth anniversary walk. I and i think seventy have been taken aback at how much attention this is received. It's it's very cool. <hes> it looks just like a a it's retro designed signed with a cover and you can see through the little people <hes> window in in in the cover. You can actually see the cassette turning on the cogs. Um antonis the music's playing when you open it up and you tap the cassettes cassettes <unk>. It's a touch screen. <hes> just made to look like very convincing cassette cassette player inside so then chose you track it is you can change the track and then when you close the cover again it reverts to looking like a cassette but brilliantly rav like the mix types types we had when we were kids. It's got the track of the current. <hes> the song playing <hes> emblazoned on the cassette. It's very convincingly really done. The only thing he wishes that the fun looked more like you'd scribbled it in a pencil rather than an actual typeface but i'm sure they'll adjust that probably so clever david maybe to feel and that's fine berlin. Thank you very much. You're listening to the briefing on monocle twenty four coming soon monochrome rolex bring you the pioneers for the founder of rolex hands build stove the world was like a living laboratory he began to use it as a testing eighteen ground for his watches from the nineteen thirties sending them to the most extreme locations supporting explorers who ventured into the unknown but the world has changed as as the twentieth century unfolds exploration for pure discovery has given way to it peration as a means to preserve the natural world to make the planet perpetual let more with the pioneers coming soon to monocle twenty four <music>. You're listening to the briefing with me. Markus be new york fashion. Week is upon us monaco's fashion manche. Jamie waters joins me now the studio to tell us all about it all at least most of it jamie being controversial lead up to this new york fashion week wise that yes so it's because of basically because of the fashion weeks connections or association with stephen ross who has made a lot of headlines recently. He funded the huge. He was behind the huge trump fundraiser but basically you know the company. That runs has many properties. He's in new york. Including its behind hudson yards and hudson yards is basically been there a couple of venues that basically we're gonna host fashion shows there and it was people thought it might become the new home of new york fashion week so because of of what happened in the connection to trump a couple with brands poo that shows from venues there <hes> and then the other the other whites connect. He's he's ross's wife car ross. Who's a jewelry designer is on the board of the council the fashion designers of america the f._d._a. Which which runs faster so all of this means that you know a lot of connections people in the fashion industry of tend to not supportive of trump and it's kind of created this kind of furor in the lead up to the to the event and other big news from this season. Is that various new head orange show off new york fashion week. Tom ford was will he do for the events. Yes tump was head of the f._d._a. Replaced down diane from furstenberg and he he has a lot of ideas and i think he's going to be really good for the fashioned way. He's he wants to make it feel more global and more international in outlook and i think what's happened with new york is it's become there's a lot of big american brands but it has felt quite american and i think over the years increasing the dynamic brands aunts have gone to paris to be to show instead if they want to get more international press obviously that you get what the american press but the more international flavor power kind of attracts everyone so ford has teamed up with brands to get basic to get more international editors to go to new york diseases so he's teamed up with bronze to to provide accommodation accommodation and and cars and hotels and everything four editors so i think he wants to give at this more global feel and i think he's a very smart man. I think if anyone can do it comp- forward and just finally jamie was other shows. We are looking at for this season and someone missing a quick roundup. Yes i mean the big brand that species calvin klein so they basically the report that runway line which rough simmons was famously helming <hes> poo that so there's no chemical on one of the clinic american brands but there's a lot of brands watch. Tom ford of course his brand showing monday night. I'm always very glamorous. <hes> you know the roy. One of my personal favorites by the twins is always amazing. This season mahjan my john gabriela hearst and devroy is another brand to watch so skewed jamie waters. Thank you very much for joining us here. On one twenty four <music> breath it is twinned to fifty in tokyo. Fourteen fifteen helsinki earns twelve fifty here. You're in london. You are listening to the briefing monocle twenty four hours. A particular has just joined me in the studio which can mean only one thing it's time for for our global counts down fernando good afternoon. How are you today good to know marco's today. I think is the first time i'm doing this country in the global countdown. Actually it's stone here. Yeah why estonia what's happening now. Actually no more marcus had a very good relationship with stones and they always have very good eurovision entries. Ed decided to say you know what what they're listening and i discovered. They have a very good hip hop scene basket so haven't been recruiting your decision to actually find out what's happening over there in the small country not at all. You know what i'm not a hip hop guy. Is you know but for example number five <hes> these guys called new blue and i'll explain after listen to distract it is hip hop but is also quite talaat of electronica. Let's listen to it. It's new blow with rotterdam in term <hes> so that's worse new blow from estonia with rotterdam. What's your record under what was goes over there. Besides about rotterdam i did translate taught rotterdam will play a big part in summer not really just a romantic song of on a weekend trip. It's rotted and so you know it's it's it's a good city to to you know to name a song with and why he called nuba lamarcus apparently it is a very famous a children's book stone in one of the main characters is new blue and he's a dog <hes> and you know he decided what my name is going to be new blow than is very. He's very witty and very catches. That's why he's doing so well in the charts but you think nuclear would have some international appeal should he look into coming up with with material in english. I absolutely think so. I mean this song rotted and is just screaming for a remake in english. Let's continue. The song. Rotterdam was indeed number five on the estonia seven years singles trouble. Let's continue now position number four what you have for us a little bit more stolen in hip hop and this song marcus correct lami. I dunno easy to finish. Lami is is basically summer right or warm or something like that. I think so according to my you know very very good research skills so we have a listen is the hip hop band kubat anoc and carmo with lami. Eh no man dining at toes guber knock the easy listening. I would say and i i thought of because even the cover of their single is like three shirtless guys in a car close to a lake is that your kind of music could be even reminded. Perhaps a little sublime from the ninety s or maybe maybe i'm going too far here marcus but so far so good <hes>. Let's see what you have for us next. What's number three this this week number three. I'm sorry listeners but this song is big. Everywhere have been stolen. It's not stone in i have to say is shown mendez and camila cabello with perhaps apps one of the hits of the summer everywhere santa rita in june shawn mendes and senorita there. I was observing your body. Language and my wrongs claim that out of the three zero zero two so aretha use your favorite well. Actually i do like rotterdam by the finger of singer. Rita think he's such a clever pop song. There makes you move your your hips or in my case my shoulders at least compete over there as well what i was watching that twenty second concession. Let's continue to number two what what do we do have more estonian music knowstone in but australian and that's quite interesting mark was her name is tones and i <hes> you know to be honest. There's many or the artist that topped the charts around the world of course we have kylie <hes> few artists here and there but tones and is doing so well in continental in europe and of course in her home country australia issues to be a busker as well and this song that we're about to hear call dance monkey. It's actually about how difficult it is to do. Live performances because the public is always asking for more and song is in a way about that pressure you feel as an artist i mean i'm explaining this but actually it's quite a fun song with an ice. I selectric beat. Shall we listen to it is interesting. Never seen gene off bombing. What's also interesting about about this is that actually it's quite a newcomer like active excuse since two thousand and they absolutely and you know what she's just fun. I think you know from what i've been reading about her evening the video clip for that song dance monkey. She's dressed tupac an old man <hes> and these old man's playing golf. There's all sorts of kind of funny situations happening in the video and you know what this is going to be her. You know her breaking breaking hit everywhere even hearing u._k. Some raiders are starting to play a little bit of tones and i so i i predict a very good future for her. It's amazing. Actually i'm just doing my own research. Toss monkey was released in may already reached number. One on the australian danish finnish irish norwegian also swedish singles charts so there is a lot of great music link from australia. Now it saves absolutely perhaps next week will be number one in stony as well but not this week before we reveal number one from estonia this week <hes> from estonia to want to give us a lead of what we're gonna be getting next. It is from the stony who's back. It's new blue at this time. He has also game boy tetris. That's the name our our tell me about game boy tetris all the history of the game boy game really but yeah no he's another stony rapper but he sings in russian so our next songs actually bilingual song so it's in stolen and also russian and it's called feud oxana show here it. She's not joking. Take now. If an unknown music by new game boy tetris <unk> oxana that was as you mentioned that song was both in at bars in estonia and some parts in russia and and and i'm wondering if you are in estonia in a country that has a significance russian minority think it makes sense to release songs like that into languages do think that's one of the reasons why we song. It's number one or two think it's number one simply because the track is just so great and it's catch. It's it's a mix i. I think it's a very smart idea. Especially in stone is very small countries aw but you know to be honest because new blue is there. I i became a fan you know what from today. I'm a fan from today. I mean he's he's a great artist. <hes> <hes> very very catchy songs and i think he's the most popular artists in stone yeah at the moment wow you've really become fun boy so so who three in your life now of this madonna now there's new bluegrass world and who else who's who's the flu in chat who who else that's. That's the best thing you can have a fair enough. Well thank you very much. I don't have a great weekend with with your madonna music shamir's against new blue music as well that was this week's global countdown and that's all for today's edition off the briefing. The broker was produced by reese james sons. Tom hall and researched by janaka fan to wheel he can both of them are a student money. She was mainly evans. I am marcus. Hey a big. Thanks for listening and have a great weekend.
Decolonizing the GLAM sector
"Hi I'M ESTA I'm together. We up the well-stoked out bus recording in isolation so where hopefully going to be a coming to you and founding right so testing the connection so Dubai with us. This is not the quality you will come to expect from the website. That was what we were trying to say together by the way. Well Spokane Turkish. Can I get one two three right? We need to do say in one fell asleep. Okay we're GONNA start from beginning okay. Hi with ESTA guys on. We owe the world can do that. Look you in my US definitely so I don't know 'cause comparing well I said I said for me I that I thought we ended up together. Redid Note Okay so enjoyable older your problems that you will. We're in isolation whistling. I attack But this podcast. The well-spoken diggins tries to fix the cultural set and try to make it a bit more inclusive prevalent So what we were going to talk about. Today is decolonization of the cultural. How I felt like this out. I think `isolation is making us by a little bit Craig crack. So that's good. 'cause we embrace on neuro divergence great. I think he's making be slightly. Just accepts mccray craters. Wow that was good So yeah talk to me so we met through an organisation. Called Museum took northwest. No we didn't. We met ages before that but one of the reasons the podcast because we were involved museum. knows less also just like talk out. People is one of the things. Yes this is true. But they're so few people of Color working in the museum sector Is Great for us to be able to come together but one of the things that just come up. Quite law is the collections saying barry coded White. Should I guess so? Today we're GonNa talk about decolonization of just going to do that. Everytime Whoa it came up because we were discussing about wonderful wonderful Phil Black Panther which I think is a record French week so because I watch a lot of TV and boom initiative We will probably be. Let's striving quiet discussions with the use of popular culture so We were going to run a clip from the film. Blood pumper which illustrates what we're talking about. Relation to different perspectives on museum collections. And particularly a black perspective on the museum's Collection Wing. Check out these artifacts. It's an expert. You could set. They're beautiful where's this one from Bobo Shanti trive? Hasn't they GONNA Nineteenth Century? What about this one was from either? People have been in sixteenth century. Now tell me about this one also from the name seventh century Fula tribe. I believe thank you Hon. Do is take him over disorders in Benin from conduct. And it's made out of. I burn your phone true. I'M GONNA get hands for are sale. How do you think he s got these? You think they paid a price but do they take. They took everything else. So it's a great clip. It was great. I'm really strokes point but you know being made to feel unwelcome in space. Even you know as the one who looks africom is in a museum looking African displays and this immediately put bound by vacuum like what is wrong with a woman does not have a is brave unsew. Many levels like not acknowledging but he might have a take on the collection but she knew best that she was all informed powerful. I think that was an experience that happens to quiet of us when we get to museums. Where the story that's told about. People of color definitely comes from a very sort of colonial vary empire driven perspective and the way that they talk about those exhibit. It's like Oh yeah. This wonderful explorer went out and found this. I'm not pulling that Michael Jordan raises about the city price say Lena so much collections all London. It is a really prevalent conversation. Stop movie came out. That the discussion dictation might link to some of them about what it is museums. Continue to actually embrace it. I mean that was A collection in New York where it was a black and African collection and they appointed a new director of there and of course it wasn't a person of color And that was a huge huge Backlash and I think the more more now people talking about it and we'll backlash about the idea of actually if you all going to have these collections one they need to be more diverse and have more diverse voices coming out with them. What do you think I think I have already weighed relationship with decolonization? Because when I was like. Oh yeah that's great. That's something that we need. And then when I saw deeper I was like well. It's almost impossible to do. We Sell Fast Reeducate Leeann Taya. What folsom museum sector? Probably apart from those who people of Color because anyway you see about work being done. No like because colonization is not as sake like it. I mean intensive the way. It's toyed schools the way it's even spoken Abou- In museums away spoken about in galleries. Whisper libraries I can go into any gallery in most cities in the world and I will see especially in Europe. Things have been taken for my about India A head on contextualized with the European history on with a context. Like if you look at it from the other point of view it's like these people came stole pillars draped took these trinkets back and then didn't give a proper context of which they were used taken or whatever like I've see I've been in to leave the Enough see things from like Fox about seeks. The wrong talks about but it's rum and you just think well this carol. The research working for the carrier. Did it really do enough research? And that's where the problem lies. You've put these people doing that. She don't have any lived experience of. I'm doing my check. Dove Act even if the default check that fact checking against other people don't have the lived experience of it and just taking what they undecided which may be mistaken and question it because they've never been asked question anything that they've ever done and then we'll go to cycle of lake talking about The colonial history and how it affects not only people of color but LGBTQ people and Trans people the way affect no binary people how basically gender is a construct because of it. How marriage is a construct because because of how the nuclear family is closed up because because it's like without actually having a really hard lessons about looking at what we've essentially what we taking ourselves and what we've been teaching children for the last however many is schools have been compulsively over history. Then we con- Actually Dakota's anything. Okay so this two different aspects. I think the decolonization question. That happening is about how we actually look at. What's on display and how we conceptualize and talk about what's on display on. Also the idea which is one. I think possibly slightly an easier. Thanks for quite interesting than it's happening and fight says the for example the museum that's committed to returning leakage colonial artifacts to that may country And that that was going to be something that kind of national policy and nuts walk. Just stop doing actually not only re context what they're saying within the museums. Also having a policy of you know making sure that what they have in them museums should rightfully be there. If there is on loan from that native country as opposed to with this is part of our collection now And in not working which I think is actually really good work that needs to be done And possibly the easy part of what you is. I rather than not rather than because that needs to be done without that. It's not going to be done in a day. That's amazing cultural shift that needs to happen. I just acknowledging what's in my collection isn't actually rightfully This country The prime example obviously paying the museum the Break Museum. How of the British Museum is Truly Truly British. And how much is being the worst? Think in the as Of Conquest and yeah what's the you know ongoing mission. What messaging they can change that. Because I've seen things right in about things. Museum has done in recent recent time post on the lead to essentially yet. The they don't really care. I mean we do happen. Second Clip that we discussed. Which is the James Acosta Comedy? Sketch which talks about what is essentially the the attitude that play that for you now not long ago. That's still very in Britain says sale. We loved everyone screen. That was great. Gold swept away about blinds. We hid in a museum. Now it's the model only countries who stole from Hoskin for that stuff which signed the blanket. No now view the ascent in that. Obviously you saw Wall Street with Shaw event. Shot right use shallow and it and it's really interesting because it a very integrate. These two examples are tackling the conversation embroiled culture. This is white guy on his comedy tool. That's pretty mainstream. I mean on all the major major oscar-nominated blockbuster talking about this issue that affects people. You know people like us and doesn't get I think it's an amazing then. Reach the powerful. How PEOPLE ALLOWS EVERYONE? There is often gets not like this It's not niece to us as people like. Everybody knows this. This is what we know in. This is not news to us now. What's the situation with work for in something that you have to bring up as compensation even if that open to having the conversation you still have to bring it up? I'll I is it like people who don't work in this sector. People going to the the comedy shows people just out and about. Yeah that aware of is they is open like the institutions of the last two way then the whole thing. When we went to the bat I museum. Detox is these institutions basically old white guys and possibly old white women as well. We talked about about first meeting. I remember seventy that message. She about okay. This is a meeting. That's contributed museum development networks sector. Where they're doing a call out people who are working in people of color working in museums. That was the corporate and I genuinely tax is just GonNa be you and make sure it was just giving you the even people. Yeah even now. Knowing people who voted the sector. I also have been caught. The script for an amount of time is we're not visible. We absolutely not visible. You'll one of the most visible people I know who ex museum sectors pass McCullough. That went line. Yeah so and that first thing again it was for the northwest and I looked active. And they're all I think eighty-five individual museums in the north west of those eighty five museums. That was six of us without. I may not just tragic absolutely tragic and even be more people say you know that. It was eight and five museums across Manchester Wheat. Big Group itself stretches Liberal Sheffield. It's wide region policy. We've met mostly mentioned Mr Full But those numbers Absolutely indicative why. It's a massive struggle to change the thinking about how museums approach working with people aren't all of the established kind of Noam and I'm quoting nome for is the norm in those organizations is that they are run by people who don't have lived experience of being people of Color being neuro diversion. Possibly you know there might be smelled ubt representation. But how does that as you said you've mentioned transgender people? I'm not sure that I'm aware of anyone transgender. Who works as a payroll in the museum and again when you talk about the people in that group that we're in They tend to be people who are on the shows distance contracts. The cool of these organizations is not run by people who have a different experience than have if they all have buried the Olympics areas and those museums all very similar in what they out in the world. It's a difficult isn't it? Because it's like you want to create change but you also don't want to have to continuously educate people now unless made me coinage to be fair if you pay me like. I'm sorry you've talked about having people come to you on your lunch hour to explain. What the Royal Soaks Racist Text? May or like I'm it. Honestly it depends on who is if it's like a friend who a big like a way to get the top tube is like. I think it's tribal authority and helped him do some research into it We found that we found the backyard of it and stuff like that and we discussed it. We had a nice discussion about it and that was fine because I was like I like tattoos and I like letting things like. Let's find out together. We found Kevin. That was fine and I was really pleased that he offered me while getting like they want us aims ensure but then there's that people who I respect coworkers that's fine but I the That go into being asked on a breaks. I don't get paid for or it on an evening. Like a text message on email or on my day off wherever just reading. It is seats. Because you have to decide how you're going to answer if you're going to answer if you gonNa have to be like you're GonNa pay me this what you're GonNa do if they don't WanNa pay this. How about you like that person to help up is. Is this going on great good? Where're my house is going to help you on on the one hand it sort of like? Oh this is great. They're enthusiastic about learning will on the other side is actually all. They actually perpetuated with themselves. Right Gee they just making me sweat full them and they're not really doing the work themselves and that is something that you know you struggle with daily and it's so hard to actually put yourself in that position. Say You know what I think. It's really important your having these conversations and I think it's important you're having these conversations during that race doing network for yourself Blow on the positive side of things. We both had people that we've worked with the Kenyan true allies to we refer to as mighty whites do. Yeah Rabi do do the work for themselves or you know are coming to you to say. Actually this is what I'm thinking. How can I make this better? And I think those kinds of conversations as he really really makes me happy when I'm having those conversations with colleagues and friends who You know taking the time to go. You know what I got a collection head. I'm not asking you to keep coaching rated with me. But not give you any money for it. Actually I'm going to go down and sit down and look at ways in which I can make this a warranted space a more welcoming space and space. That should be. I'm aiming for for my museum so we've talked about by eight and We also talked about the one of my. My Wife's refuses to be called that she should be an all righty white talented with the quite frankly. It's so red meat's on with that level of understanding and willingness to not be defensive when you bring stuff up and willingness to actually go do the work themselves but I absolutely think she should because the Mike and the mad 'cause she was like Oh my God the bar is Solo. The bar low is in how stolen that one of my favorite couch but yeah the ball. Russillo low. It's in how but you know I'm remy way. We have a hockey over by the bath so by she'll be embarrassed. Eight Brian from the museum especially of the space that is intrinsically one where people of color you know. The police have a long-standing. No one's GonNa be anyway fries. Monks they kind of Rayvey abrasive relationship with people of color that to me knowing that one of her personal mission to make sure the face of welcomes this in that. She's actively doing stuff. I think jus an amazing Presidents Museum That's amazing yeah. Mighty white is Kevin Kevin take. He's GonNa hate this so he used to be on the air a board. He was a cultural diversity officer believe anyway he says Iras off a Medical Association and he had a bursary full every passing to go to all kinds of Records Association Conference Yearly Conference. It was two years ago. Maybe yet she has a anyway. I want it a and then I went to the conference and it was the first time I'd ever good twenty important like some kind of thinking about what I wanted to do. Career-wise and thinks that the when I was like finding into reading room knows when he giant But he's been like over the reluctant. Montoro. I'm just paid like full of him to give me advice and be like you know. We'll just be applicable of drink canal. Just ask questions who gives me? Let's is and will discuss things and it's in part because of him and a few other really really amazing people that have given me. The confidence of the drive to create. A conference is happening at the end of August. Which will hopefully still go cold. Intersectional Gaba disrupted empower obviously tickets. That's the moment completed thunderbolt because of Corona Missouri. She's ruining everyone's lives But that still goes ahead. Then that's going to be an accent booed to not just the mighty white to help me. The lasky is just every single person. He's ever been supportive. Undervalue that support at all. You really can't undervalue having won that. Who's actually not just supportive. Not just talking the talk by walking the walk of helping you. You know I make what you be the best of what you also the organization. You work in feel like a good place to be working. 'cause no one. We love these organizations. We Love coacher. We love heritage. We love stray and we look sharing that it can get really frustrating when it's always the same people that get benefit from what you do so badly in what you do. Yeah so it is amazing to us for so. Yeah we can talk about some of the issues and the problems We could open it out to our listeners. To kind of get back to us and talk to us about things that they find for straying or questions that they might have almost kind of they ask fights per se right. This is the time to ask this. How can you be a museum? How can you engage people? How can you call an election at? Can you revise your thinking around your collections? And HAVE THE NEXT TIME. You put something on the main thing or look back at what you're already doing. A make it summit fat earn something. Everyone could walk through and be proud about instead of just really cool will taper spoiler highly for training sessions. Yes be trained by just great. Go do you WanNa talk about Intersectional Glam? Then so I went. Business in sectional is a trading business and to what does gladstone full. Oh sorry guys. Libraries museums key asset. Also you being on fabulous row. Now I've got heist that solidifies to no one in Guam during Rona. We're all just slightly less. Glamorous the noble except you of Friday's Friday's well. You know I feel like there's a time when I need a bit of south cast. Elevate myself just gotta fill like Just at Higgins what house every day every night. Yes I'm also. I think it's been really nice. Like rite aid buccaneers other people. And that was the point as joy is my side. Hustle. I D- trading sessions or decolonisation. Declawed is the mind Wacky on mobile politically sensitive. Descriptions of is any descriptions in you collections. That you feel you or something. You can't see DJ. Because I guarantee you. There will be some descriptions completely. A acceptable top out at the moment will just be copied and pasted into a label and see unacceptable of people Just just trying to expose. People's horizons about what experiences in life is like as someone who is considered other this cultural sector. We do love his hot sometime so crazy about sensitivity that empathy and understanding your privilege even for myself I know employers in ways that other people out so I need to be aware of that. Big remove people So the tag is dot creating a spice marginalized voices in galleries a museum and I think one of the reasons I really love and respect what you do is because one of the things that makes me empowered everyday were is creating that space for other voices in Eugene So-so well See It's insane conglomerate dot home dot lock we'll obviously have linked to it through They are cast as well. I do think he's really The things like Exists because it's great coming and talking about how these issues affect US professionally and personally because there is that infection one of between the way that it does affect us it gets people on affects us is professional And having that space to talk about those issues and possibly think about solution for also having you know actually what. Are these fun things that people can do just ready? I take out in the world and really widen impact and I think you go into. I am very excited to the conference. And I'm really really hopeful. They'll still be this me to the twenty fifth Richie so final thoughts before we log off today What would you say would be the one thing you would love to say happen? After after Corona virus. What would you say it would be the first thing you would hope to happen in the museum? You can alcock you law library archive I look in the. Us can leverage. And I haven't thought about it So one of the things because of the way that my working has changed since being here being wet mall I've been trying to make the argument but there are times. When it's really important to me work from Nevsky more effective. What my job as sometimes. I don't feel very listen to a map. I'm hoping that host Corona Virus. The actually back voice that we will be date will be taken most seriously Dan. I had my one thing. I'm hoping I just generally. Accessibility is taken more seriously on a wider workforce for the fact that we were able to work for him so easily. Ed Seventy different ways by different people. You different ways of working so quickly remotely which is needed by so many other people who want to get into the workforce. Hopefully this proves to that to those big bosses. Whoever that might be thought wrote why hands possible and it can be more efficient. Sometimes I'm include more people in the conversation and in the work team yet exactly. I'd do it. The exact voluntarily could be done for boldly in some instances. Like maybe transcribing audiotapes will like beats. Eggs can be done remotely. Yeah creatine barracks us. I think a great thing that should come out of this. Yeah well positive. It's been great to speak to you. I'm hoping that our next conversation will be just six. I ain't gonNA interesting and the if anyone else has any topics they want us to discuss about. Being people of color working in the Glam sachse than please do email. Our email address is will also spoken. Toko Yahu Dot Com. You'll save again. Hopefully be well-spoken takings. Y'All hey dot com and you can find us on twitter and also will probably post links to other places that we are. Thank you very for listening the next time. Thank you honey.
Mini-Ep 118: Room to Groom
"Hello and welcome to forever thirty five a podcast about the things we do take care of ourselves. I'm Dorey Schiff freer and I'm Kate Spencer. And we are not experts. We are just two friends who liked to talk a lot about serums, and this is a mini episode where we hear from you, share your comments and thoughts, and we answer your questions to the best of our ability, and please remember we are not experts. We are just podcast hosts, so we always encourage you to seek support, first and foremost. Foremost from a doctor, indoor mental health professional as needed, and if you want to reach us, voicemail number is seven, eight, one, five, nine, one, zero, three, nine zero, and our email is for thirty five podcast at g mail, dot, com and I just want to mention if you feel inclined to leave a rating or review on Apple podcasts. We sure do appreciate it. We'll take him. We will take them. Kate. How's it going? We'll dory. Today is my birthday. Yay Happy Birthday. Thank you, thank you so much. I know as this pandemic in quarantine ticks along more and more us are feeling very grateful to be celebrating our birthdays during this time. And I am happy to be here and happy to be forty one. Yeah Kate I'm happy that you're forty one to forty one. What an age! What a random age that no one ever talks about. Well, it is a prime number. Is it I? Don't even know okay. That's cool. With prime number I do and it's great because I. Barely even know what it is. It's like nothing can divide into it, craig except for one and itself. Okay well look at that I'm a prime number this year. I'm more just feel like forty. Get so much attention, and then like. Yes, just like sitting there all alone like what about me? Yeah, which is kind of Nice actually right because I feel like? There's so much. There's so much to do about your fortieth. Even, if you don't actually do anything it's, it looms large psychically. It sure does but. You just kinda like forty-one a DM slide just like we totally forty one is like. Let me put on my mu. And just. recline on the couch and watch some TV and that time gonNA spend my birthday, and you just basically described what I'm going to do. Although I did have a thing today not to bring up our favorite video game animal crossing again, but I was like. Should I open my island. Invite people over for my birth. US an annual crossing birthday party. People will bring you gifts which I need to say goes against my nature, because I have never really been a big birthday. celebrator I'm not really comfortable having parties. It's just like. Birthdays are not my thing like I. I like them that I'm aging but I. don't catch I. Don't need like the kind of. Celebratory side of it really I don't know why maybe maybe your animal crossing Avatar does yes, but perhaps in video game form. You so I think for my birthday. I've asked I've I think we'll get? We'll order food from a restaurant and. Hang out with our. Hang out with our kids and I'm just GONNA. Chill that's my plan. That sounds great, and you know I reflect on my own. Good Fortune of getting to be here so I tried to. Try to think about how I want to intentionally live the next year of my life so I'll probably do a little bit of that, too. That sounds great and listen if you. Open up your island. I'll let you know for party. Please let me know I'd love to come by and bring you a gift. Okay Great I will accept all presence in my virtual world. Great sounds awesome. During what have you been? What have you been doing this this past few days? That I have missed? Well You have a birthday present for me arriving what? Yeah. It's coming okay. Wait. So planning that. Oh Yeah. In other news I noticed that I had a little pandemic win. If you will I noticed that my eyebrows which I severely over- plucked for all of the nineties, and I would say most of the arts, and then even going into the teens. I feel like I would get them laxed. By people who didn't really know what they were doing. And I would end up would like to. Little Lines I'm talking about I should have had them. Yeah, yes, so they've grown back and so I should say in the last few years I've I've started going to people who actually know what they're doing and have started to form like an arch, but even when I let my eyebrows grow in for months they're not like. Full because I just. I killed them in. Back in the day when everyone just wanted like the thinnest little line like if you look at pictures of like reese witherspoon from like. Like the cruel intentions era. That was my. That was what I aspire to eyebrow wise. googling right now. I can see them in my head. They were like dark and thin, right very thin. Like as though you just use the sharp, really sharp pencil to draw a really since. Veer, line I am observing now. What a great! Great movie that is, did you find? Did you find the pictures that I'm referring to yeah. They're like eight million and she has a very. Very intense little. Yes, exactly so I was looking in the mirror the other day and I realized that. They've actually started growing back a tiny bit and I'm starting to have like a real arch and the hair is extending. Actually like? Kind of. Like a little past, my brow bone! If you will. Oh I will. So this felt very momentus to me. I have to take these small winds where I can find them. You know where you intentionally growing at your browser. did it just kinda organically happening I? was and I had been going to this woman. From eyebrows her name is. And she is. She someone I've gone to New York longtime ago a few times. And then I moved to La and stop going to, and then she then she became bicoastal and started doing people's browse in La. And she is someone who is like okay I'm GonNa. Do your browse and then I. Don't want you to touch them for like six months. So I was doing that and letting them grow, and then of course. With the pandemic and I had already been like mid grow out with her. The last time I got them done with her was like in the fall, like maybe like November so I was already letting them grow, and the pandemic happened, and now it's been like I. Don't know. Eight months nine months, so they've just been growing. And A. Yeah. Congratulations Story. Thank you so much. My hair also is growing really long. And I'm sort of like I. Don't know what. To do about it like I, don't hate it. There's no real reason for me to cut it right now. I'm not going anywhere. Yeah I kind of In the same boat I. Guess I just let this going yeah! We're GONNA. Talk about hair more in this episode to because we had a listener question about we did about hair. Yeah. You're right like. Also kind of makes me rethink the way I approach my appearance. You. Know what I mean like. We're like we're not going anywhere, so we don't need to do. These things like well if we were going places, would we need to like what what have we been subscribing to all these interesting? You know a little bit. Who like who are we doing this for? What our region? Yes, for what are we do? Who yes, and I would say like by we I mean me like what? In who am I guess who I grew interesting, because there are certain things like my skin that I am still doing my whole routine four, and still buying products and maintaining, but that's something I can do on my own. I also. Find Pleasure in that. Yes. Totally. But I mean again. Who are we maintaining it for? I don't know. I don't know I mean. Our skin is great in animal crossing so. That's all we need her tune versions of ourselves we need. I Yeah I I'm curious how listeners are navigating this and I think it's also interesting as like. You know states are at like different phases of their reopenings. Are People finding that like? If they have to go back to work that they are suddenly feeling like. Oh, my Gosh I have to get my haircut or there or have have their. Has Their mentality totally shifted in the? You're just like. Oh, it's fine. GonNa wear it up in a bun or something or or not care or cut it off I? I don't know I'm curious I most people's grooming habits change. How how're you grooming now? Yes, how do we groom now how we groom now? Room to groom Okay Kate There's room for in groom men. You know what? I really normally admire your puns in your word play. That was bad. It was. It was not your best work. You know I can't. I was workshop and I got the response that I was learning so now you've answered my question and take it back to the table and tweak it. Room? In other news I finally read Brit Bennett's book the vanishing half. which I feel like everyone has been talking about, and it is just as amazing as everyone said it was. It is so good I've really been having trouble sitting down to like actually read a book. And I just devoured this book in like a day I. How okay highly recommend it? I also loved her first novel. The mothers which yeah to like three years ago. I think two or three years ago. But the vanishing half is really excellent. I'm I'm it's on my TB? Our List at my library like I'm trying to get my hands on it I've had the same I've had the same problem of like started like five different books and could not get into them, and it's been a real struggle I finally was able to. Finally found a book that. That that got into, and that has been great, but it has been. It's been weird, not being able to read books that I know I like I. Just Might Bring Yeah. Like, it's not the book. It's me and it's really hard totally totally. So anyway, just wanted to put that out there. In case other listeners. We're struggling with this, too. Because this is a book that I. Think People will get into right away. Okay, that's perfect. That's what we all need right now we do. All right, shall we take a break? Oh yes, let's pause and RB. Opinion! All right so. We. We got a voicemail from a listener with a product wreck and they wanted to know if we had tried it. So I wanted to play, and then we shall discuss great here we go. Hi This is Sarah Calling from Somerville Massachusetts Isobutane call this for a while, but I. Don't think you've ever talked about a skinny for branch. On the pod yet and it is a woman owned by or at least is very small operation and I feel very strongly about their products. The always recommending than facebook group. the MOISTURIZER is with goals and it has been a real game changer for my dry skin. I love the fortify oil. I use the rewind serum which I believe is gladdened the. Taylor acid. I also really like vitamin. C. Also has co Q. Ten in which was a favorite of stories. anyway. I just wanted to see if you had any experience with these products and and give a shout out to that on the todd and I highly. Encourage everybody to to try it out and I'm curious to hear your saw. Have a great day. We love. We have talked, we have mentioned on the pot before. I feel like when we interviewed. She's a strategic user. Oh, that's right. Revisit that you haven't listened to that episode listener. Check that out because I feel like. We talked a little deeply about liquid gold early strategy in that episode Yes we've both tried it and both like it, yeah. Liquid gold is like. I remember when we first tried at your door. You were like this is like a real. Cult fave like everyone's obsessed with this. Yes, it's very cool. Very cool. I should also say so starting at one point at sent us a bunch of stuff and I have been not only using their liquid gold, but I also use their velvet cleansing milk, which if you listen to our episode with Caroline, Hi Ron's. You'll know that a cleansing milk is one of the cleansers that she approves of. Yes, she does not approve foam a foam. No, she hates a phone hates. A foam loves the milk. Yes, And I also like their fortify oil. It's really nice. Face oil I will say that so. I had I can't believe I can't remember if I've mentioned this on the Pod, but I also used to really like their vitamin. C Serum I was using it while I was pregnant. And then. After I had Henry. My, like I think my hormonal balance shifted or something, and it's suddenly was making me break out, and I know that vitamin C. it's not just this product I know vitamin C. Makes a lot of people. Break out so I just want to. Put that out there? That like if you're sensitive to vitamin C, I? Might not be the product for you. But I really I, really like all their other products. I've been using their liquid gold. At night lately I will also say they have a good price point there like drugstore cheap, but they're not. Really Expensive The liquid gold is twenty seven dollars. So. There you go, we take the recommendation and we like it. We do. All right all right. We have an email here we do. Six weeks ago in the throes of the global pandemic and one week, prior to my twenty eighth birthday, my partner of seven years and husband of four left me. While I, still virtually no answers or explanation, he told me that he no longer loved me and would experience deep regret if he stayed in our marriage, he refused to consider marriage counseling and moved out. I truly saw none of this coming I was under the impression that our marriage was happy and good. I thought it was one of the lucky ones. A viewed my husband as my best friend and the love of my life. Everyone I've spoken with including. His family is equally confused. On top of this of all of this I am getting ready to start the final year of my doctoral program in a state across the country from where the majority of my friends and family live because of Covid I. have been unable to leave or get away from everything going on. I am stuck living in our home with our dog's trying to keep my life together, but honestly I am struggling I am grieving the loss of my partner and the future we had planned together. The lack of closure is making this all just so so difficult. In the weeks since he left. I've started therapy via telehealth and working on coming to terms with everything I've met with a lawyer. Virtually I have rearranged every room in my home and replaced all the pictures of us with pictures of me and my friends in an effort to make it feel more mine than ours I taken up gardening I've walked my dogs read books. Listen to podcast. Episodes Watch net flicks zoomed with friends and family and I've cried a lot. I'm trying to do all that I can to keep busy will also giving myself the space to grieve, which brings me to my question. Do you have any recommendations for things that might help me get through this time. Most of my friends are just now getting engaged or married or starting their families, which is to say that not many of them have advice on how to navigate a divorce, so if either of you or any of your listeners have any recommendations or advice for me, I would gladly take it. I'm so sorry. I mean. fucking a! Let's start with that yeah! Eh Listener. I almost I. Well, okay. Let's just I. Say neither your eye during have been divorced and gone through divorce. So I don't think we can speak obviously from experience, so let us let us open this up to listeners out there who have gone through divorce. Because Divorce is. Hard and traumatic. or CAN BE I. DON'T WANNA make a sweeping. But I think it's. An experience that. We don't know we we. We have no idea unless we have been through it. Yeah. I mean a couple of like. I guess practical suggestions. You. Say you've been unable to leave or get away from everything going on? I know that people are going to like airbnb ease. People's people are renting homes. Maybe that is an option. Maybe you could take your dogs with you or or leave your dogs. At a you know a dog boarding place or with friends or family and just get away for a few days. Is that an option. You. How do you feel safe doing that? 'cause I did do that and I was apprehensive and. It actually turned out to be a really felt genuinely Like a break. Yeah! It. It doesn't have to be that far away. Like no I. Think you can. It can be close to where you live, but just having that change of scenery and getting out of the home that you share together even for just a few days I think could really help. Yeah, that's a good point. I feel like this is a thing that unfortunately is just going to take time. Yeah. You know because I'm reading this listeners all the things that they have done and. You are doing. All the things. It's just that this is this is. This is grief and. Grief takes a long time to move through. So I feel like you are doing the things that you need to do to help you get through this time I wonder if there is a way, and maybe our listeners have thoughts on this. For what it sounds like you are lacking, and what you need is support from people who have been through this or are going through this. Yes, you are at a really unique age. Where at twenty seven you're right like all. You're going like every friend's wedding and. That can that. It sounds like you've. You might feel isolated from the people in your life, not through any like thing that they're doing, but just because they're in different experiencing life differently right now so. I do think you could benefit from some sort of like virtual support group and. I don't know if that exists. I don't know if it's as simple as googling divorce online, support group twenties, or if it's much harder than that, but that would be that that to me feels like a space where if we can figure out or if listeners have ideas on how you can find a community that truly gets your experience. That seems like that would be really beneficial. Yeah and now the other thing that I will say and and. This is just this is just a thought. Don't you could be like Dory your that is not a good idea, but. As I as I. Read and reread your. Email, you seem like a really thoughtful and caring person and you talk a lot about how you're grieving. You don't. Say anywhere that you're angry. and I wonder if like letting yourself be angry might be freeing like let yourself be mad at this guy. I'm sorry, but he sucks. Like fuck him I'm angry. I'm angry at him and like I know that maybe you don't. You're not ready for that or you don't want to like. You don't WanNa. Just feel anger anger towards him, and I say that like there will be time to not feel anger towards him, but like right now. You just need to feel fucking angry. You how to feel, but I think at that could that could maybe. Help, you break through some of this? Get Mad. Get Matt Yeah. Embraced anger I'm. I'm I. Hear that story I like that. Thank you. Thank you so much. Where we are thinking of you and we will. If we receive thoughts listeners, we will share them because I. I do think we have lots of people out there who are going through divorce considering divorce or separated are exploring. Or breaking up from relationship, and so let's definitely. Let's talk about it more. Yeah! I think we need to take a break. We do already yeah. I'll your be the are? All Right? We have returned. And we have a voice mail. He can't story Long Time Long Time. I maybe I should've called Caroline Office. so number about this. And Sata he guys that you're talking about her. decolonize, your books of challenge, which is super cool, context and English professor love seeing people make up. And step outside the cannon with their reading I wanted to encourage you to think about. What decolonisation means with would also. Like including vision? Offers ambitious the Americas that is in however you up your bookshelf for indigenous haven't the black with ration- are one hundred percents link. and. Trying to give a shout out because. She hauling station is. A really important and really specific. Political action in the United States. That includes considering dishes, folks plus there's so many great writers anyway, I'm out of because I'm walking. My dog and I'm pulling him away news away from yard that he wants to go to hit US French. So apologies from my breath says. Because a great Marvin podcast Great suggestion they. Yes, I really appreciate you calling us in on this one. Thank you I have to do lot more. Learning here but like. I'm yes I love this. Thank you listener. Yeah. And also I mean I. Don't think that this was ever like the point, but I think listener also emailed us that like. It doesn't have to be one to one like you don't have to read one. For every. Black author or an indigenous author. Or another person of color author that you read, you don't have to read a white author like you can read multiple books by. Authors of Color S. Yes. Thank you. Thank you so much for this Good great reminder. Tori. We're going to transition to the hair question. We mentioned up at the beginning this episode. Are we are? Would you like me to read it? I defer to you. Yes, please take. High Cain Dory I. Desperately Need Your help. I have generally low maintenance straight hair, but since the start of quarantine, my hair has gotten the longest. It's been years since we're at home all the time. Literally, all of my hair shedding happens in her tiny apartment and I'm not sure if it's due to stress or what, but I'm shedding so much lately I live with my partner, and he's very kind about it, but I can tell it gross him out, and honestly it does me too, I wish I could say a haircut is an option to at least shorter strands to shed, but my mom and I have a lifelong tradition. She's the only person who has ever cut my hair. I'm twenty seven years old, and I've never been to a hair salon and I'm not about to start now because Ako, vid and be, it would break my mom's heart and mine, but we currently live across the country from one another with no option to visit until covert is under control, so my question for you all is. Do you have any tips, hacks or products that you recommend to help? Prevent shedding or make long hair, more resilient and less prone to breakage until I can see my mom again. Thank you and love the pod so much. Dora. Hair shedding I have. Is there anything that you did that? You found helpful. So my first thought is, you might want to do a telemedicine appointment with a dermatologist interesting. And they should be able to diagnose whether there's something going on. That's beyond just. Regular hair shedding because you haven't had a haircut in a while, so that's that would be my first step. And you can also get your thyroid checked. That's a simple blood test. See if there might be some issues there. Iron deficiency is another. cause. Potential cause for hair loss. But I think these are all things that a dermatologist would be able to go over with you so I would. I would start there. Then, there are other there are some supplements that people take people do take by oaten that can. Mess with your thyroid a little bit. You have to be a little careful with that. There's also supplement called viviscal that people like I did try taking it and it made me break out which I guess is a side effect for a percentage of people, so your mileage may vary there. And so yes, those are a few things and then. The other thing I would say is. How did idea. For your situation! I know that there I've a friend who? She did like a face time with hore hairdresser, and then her husband cut her hair. Like under her hairdressers guidance. Yes. Yes, yes, so I was thinking. If your partner is up for this, you could facetime your mom. And she could guide your partner in cutting your hair so then it would still be like she was cutting your hair, but given all the restrictions that were under right now. This is the safest and most practical way for her to quote unquote. Cut your hair. It's like she's cutting your hair. It's just your partner is like executing the haircut. It's like the movie ghost in many ways. It is exactly. I mean it's a bit of a leap, but that's what I'm envisioning in my head right now. It's as though your mother is a famous artist and your husband is is one of the studio workers charged with executing her vision. Yeah, I mean I. it sounds like you have a very special relationship with your mom, and like this bond of haircut ing. But if you are in as like, we don't know how long this is going to go and I would not suggesting you're not gonNA see your mother for a long time, but that's possible. So, if there if there are some ways around it that allow you to maintain that bond and connection without breaking your hearts. That's another might be another option to explore. Yeah I like that idea dory. You know I think also like less prone to breakage wearing your hair, and like a tight ponytail on top of your head door in like I think all that stuff can contribute to breakage. Yeah, I'll so maybe washing it less and brushing it if you brush your hair, brushing and combing at less. Yeah! Letting its lending running through its thing. That's a that's another. Another piece of advice, but yeah I think. I think that unfortunately it might not be practical for you at this point to wait until you can see your mom again to get your haircut. So. You know I think it's worth having a conversation with her about this and I think work. We are in a global pandemic like people are making all sorts of modifications and accommodations to everything in their lives, and I don't think that it breaks the streak of your tradition in any way to make some modifications right now. Totally agree. I like that idea story. Thank you? Thank you so much. All right well. Let's wrap it up. Let's wrap it up our. Our suggested activity of the day is to watch. The Baby Sitters Club on net flicks. It is so good. And, we just think if you if you haven't had a chance to watch it, it now is the time it is not just for kids. It is for adults. It is so wonderfully executed and I cry in almost every episode while watching it. All. All right well Kate. It's been a pleasure talking to you, Dorey as always likewise, except for that one moment where you tried to make very bad pun, and it didn't didn't work hate I will forgive you. Thank you I appreciate that very much. All right, let's say thank you so much for listening and we will talk to you next week. Okay Bye.