20 Episode results for "Debord"
Social Media and Risks to Digital Freedom: A Conversation with Ronald J. Deibert
"<music> hello everyone and welcome to the power three-point podcast looking at authoritarian resurgence democratic resilience in an era kabila's asian power three point was brought to you by the international democratic studies center at the national endowment for democracy. I'm your our hosts chris walker vice president for studies and analysis at the endowment and i'm your co host shanty colossal senior director of nets international forum recording from our studio in washington in d._c. On today's episode we'll be discussing how it is that social media and related digital communication tools which were seen as a positive force for advancing freedom and human rights. It's have rapidly come to be regarded more warily even as a threat today democratic forces are confronted with anti liberal powers adept in the collection manipulation shen and projection of information for the purposes of influence and power resurgent authoritarian regimes are subverting global information space by spreading disinformation asian surveilling populations and swatting the open exchange of ideas within democracies digital tools are generating turbulence that is ever more challenging to come to groups with to talk us through these painful truths about social media and democracy replaced welcome to the show ron debord a professor of political science and director of the the citizen lab at the university of toronto for today's discussion social media and risks to digital freedom ron. It's great to have you here today. Thank you mark pleasure so ron. I'd like to kick things off just by asking you if you could walk us through the painful truth that you allude to in your journal of democracy article that was published this january sure thank you so actually when i was asked to write this piece i had been thinking about these ideas for quite a while and and really what i wanted to do was synthesize emphasize <hes> a lot of conventional wisdom that is emerging out there and yet a conventional wisdom that people are not really willing to confront front openly because it is uncomfortable and painful and that's why i called them painful truths about social media. The first is <hes> a pretty basic. One relates to the nature nature of the economy of social media <hes> which is basically a personal data surveillance so at the heart of of all social media's a simple transaction in exchange for giving up the <hes> freedom and <hes> the ability to navigate through <hes> social media using the technology technology for free <hes> the the companies in the machinery behind it essentially monitor everything that you do in order to target advertisements and this economic model which is at the heart of social media is really relentless it once it starts. It's difficult to stop an an at <hes> accumulates so so you have sensors built on top of sensors in endless search for acquisition and control. I think most people recognize that <hes> it's it's pretty basic but it's often underestimated how powerful this surveillance of machinery can become so. That's the first <hes> the second is that that we like it. We we consent to it. <hes> social media's very popular some platforms come and go and people gripe about you know maybe facebook or twitter or whatever <hes> they're going through a bit of a backlash right now but generally speaking social media's popularity continues to rise and end part of that has to do with the fact that it's very convenient <hes> part of it has to do with the fact that our lives are constrained in important ways by social media so it's very difficult to opt out but what i outlined in the article is a <hes> a more insidious mechanism at work which is that the consent to it but not necessarily wittingly and by that i mean most people don't fully appreciate i think the way in which social media is explicitly explicitly designed as an addiction machine the technology at the heart of it is effectively about drawing people in and keeping them engaged in order are to monitor everything that they do so the <hes> engineers and the designers of social media platforms spend a lot of money and resources on figuring out ways to draw you in and capture your attention so this is basically an addiction machine the last painful the truth and i find it. The most frightening actually is that social media is enabling authoritarian practices now. I think this last painful truth really runs against the grain of the conventional wisdom that people had about the internet and social media and authoritarianism <hes> twenty me thirty years ago. You'll remember people were enthusiastic about the technology <hes>. There were some exceptions shanty on them. <hes> people warning that well well. Maybe that conventional wisdom is not quite correct. I think now we have to acknowledge that. In a number of ways social media's actually propelling authoritarian practices says and i go through many of the different mechanisms there. Perhaps we could spend more time talking about that so just one other question. I posed at this stage which is is <hes>. There are some observers of course who recognize the convenience that one gets from these very attractive <hes> digital tools <hes> <hes> but i am not certain that most users understand that the <hes> the platforms are not neutral and that this notion that somehow now. It's a it's a neutral arbiter of what information people receive at least until very recently was something that wasn't fully appreciated so i wonder if you can just tell us a little bit about your sense of how how the kind of algorithm ick logic as some have described this works for our listeners who may not be so familiar with that so <hes> again this relates back to how social media's design in an explicit way to capture and retain people's attention and so the algorithms are designed to do precisely that which ends up having several consequences one yas <hes> that extreme radical prejudiced information mation tends to rise to the top because that's the most sensational. It's the most spectacular it's what people tend to gravitate towards and that's simply <music> a an unfortunate byproduct really of human nature. You know there's a saying about <hes> people watching car accidents hard to look away. <hes> i think the same can be said about a lot of the content on social media so the algorithms are are not neutral at all in that regard. They're designed explicitly to encourage courage people to to watch or to <hes> stay connected to that particular platform. An interesting experiment is to start with any particular video on youtube and let the suggested videos grohl. You'll find yourself in a pre dark place very quickly. No no matter where you start however off innocuous it is and that's a good illustration of what we're talking about here and why <hes> some of the larger larger social and political consequences of social media are having pre detrimental impacts so i wanna come back to that point about the recommendations from social media layers only bookmark dot but for now. I wanted to go back to a a very important point that you make which is that people want this. It's it's not a model that is predicated solely upon what is usually termed as some kind of orwellian landscape orwellian control particularly authoritarian in societies and i think one of the problems that i have with your wealthy and metaphor is that it's it doesn't fully take into account the fact that this is also demand-driven and that it provides a useful function and some sort of if not soporific purpose and entertaining purpose and a and a function of convenience for people and i and particularly when i look at this through the lens of china and the information environment there i think of this as the orwell huxley toggle right that it's it's not simply orwell. It's also about providing this sort of something that calms people and keeps them engaged. Actually there's a professor jeff. Wasser is written a whole essay about this in china the challenges that confront though is that even if you recognize that this is not solely orwellian it leaves you with this problem. About how do you address that. When so much of what we're talking about is <hes> i would call it a front door problem not a back door problem and you had citizen lab. Your research team has done so much on back door. Issues some sort of the ways that did it can be exploited through back door means but this is really something that uses you're consenting through its front door issue. How do you get at that when <hes> that would seem to put the onus on the consumer to fully understand what they're opting into. Is there a way to address that issue yeah. That's a really good question and i've i've struggled without that myself. <hes> one of the things i've puzzled about and i talked about this in the article is terms of service so <hes> every application that we download comes with a lengthy terms of service. Most people do not read the terms of service. They simply click. I accept even if you were to read the terms terms of service you'd likely need a legal degree to understand <hes> and even if you had a legal degree in you could understand the terms of service it would be physically impossible possible to read all the terms of service on all of the applications that one downloads on their device in a particular day or week <hes> so were consenting to it but not entirely wittingly because we don't even look at the terms were engaging when we enter into what is effectively a contractual dole relationship with a software company <hes> many of the software companies are actually quite explicit about what they do with. They give themselves permission to do so. It's not like they're her. They're hiding anything. They'll come right out and say by the way when you download our application. We're going to gather all of your sim card information all of your contacts we give ourselves permission to turn on the microphone the camera and we reserve the right to share all of this data that you you are giving to us with any third party that we choose <hes> so just on that level there is this extraordinary challenge to to <unk> have people turn that around in some manner and i think the to the front door in the back door as he as he put it are actually connected. I think that the work that that we do at citizen lab is a good example of what <hes> generally speaking we should encourage people to do more of which is peel back the layers of the technology. That surrounds owns us. Don't take it for granted. Don't just go through it as if you're sleepwalking start questioning <hes> what is at the root of those things that you're dependent and into pond and once people start doing that. I think they would start recognizing that. You know there is a a a higher level function behind the games ames and other applications that were that were using an enjoying their or using for convenience sake or having fun with <hes> the actually are are at the ruda some pretty important social and political problems so i i can't i can't think of any other way to address it then encouraging people to lift the lid on the technology that surrounds them but you know at the same time of course governments in particular europe has tried to move forward on privacy legislation for instance in your view. Is that something that will help get at this problem. Is it sufficient you know what else needs to be done in addition to the steps that you've outlined. I think that's one important step up for sure <hes> it's very encouraging to see there is a regulation and a law the naval citizens to take back some ownership ownership of the data the that they leave around them as exhaust really important first step but i also think we need to address the problem that we're talking about here in a in a comprehensive and holistic fashion that goes beyond just regulations we have to talk about in terms of norms in terms of civic catholics <hes> a a good portion of of the issue revolves around people's attitudes and and and basic civility that i think also oh needs to be addressed if we're going to get at some of these these problems really talking about a wholesale change in our way of life which is not easy and that's not something that can come from just one albeit very important piece of regulation so i'd like to stay on this thread for just a moment ron and ask you know citizen. Citizen lab is recognized for doing this forward leaning work and you said that <hes> it's key for people to peel back the layers of the technology and understand what underlies underlies it and if there's a kind of wholesale change that's needed what what else do you think we could be doing say apart from the legislative and regulatory dimensions of this impractical terms in the near to mid term that would make a meaningful impact on the sort of things that in your view need to change well again here. There's no simple solution. There's no easy alternative. You know coming here to to this building. I used google google maps to find my way here and like most people i know i can't get on a plane with electric boarding pass. It's difficult to do anything <hes> without the technology that surrounds us but we need alternatives. I think one of the solutions that i would i would like to see explored would be alternative social media that aren't oriented around around personal data surveillance so we can have social media without the economic model that underpins it <hes>. It's a matter of someone some group <hes> a network of people technologists perhaps <hes> designing something and it becoming popular. I don't see any reason why that to have to be linked in that manner and just thinking back say twenty years ago when the nascent challenges that shot the others identified and the the new digital realm. We're starting to take shape <hes> there was a need at that time to have say civil society groups that would educate themselves and develop a capacity. I need help wider public's understand the emerging challenges of let's say a generation ago so today in a way it sounds like with these emerging challenges we need to a new set of voices that are able to put these issues in perspective for the the wider audience hasn't society. They're using the technology is is that the right way of thinking of this or is there something else we should be doing that. <hes> would be even more important. I think that's the right way of thinking about it. We need to encourage young people especially because you know this is a generational shift that we're talking about here. Encourage young people to to think differently about their relationship to data and information one of the points i make in the article is perhaps we need to think about data and information the way that we would like to think about the natural environment think about it in terms of conservation <hes> slow things down. Don't always have your device in front of you. You see people talking about things like this now <hes> but of course as difficult to do take some internal strength than it takes education it will take acculturation trey shen into this new attitude but i think that would also be helpful if if we just put put a pause on on the digital environment that surrounds around us get back to some basics that would help us perhaps with a different perspective on why were so engaged to this technology and i think that gets back back to the addiction part of it is well. It's it's difficult to admit your addict addicted to something and <hes> most people i'm not. I'm not fooled by facebook. Booker twitter google then they're you know buzzer goes off in their pocket and they're checking their taxed and they don't see that the very basic offer conditioning is actually applied to them so <hes> again this this comes back to a different attitude towards the social media environment and our relationship information and data. I'm laughing because you could be described me right now on me. Not me well so a lot of what we've been talking about is particularly relevant to citizens and democracies who may be able to avail themselves of this full suite of society approaches and so on and of of course what we've seen in the last twenty years you know we talked about looking at this initially as something where there was a tremendous amount of optimism and there was also <hes> some degree concerned about what was happening within authoritarian societies now you see platforms that have originated within authoritarian societies not merely being dominant within those countries but actually going global and taking on more and more of a global aspect. I am curious to get your take on what are the implications of this because does it occurs to me that we could try to apply all of these norms and values <hes> an regulation at times that are based firmly within a democratic framework but this might not necessarily apply to those platforms that are within authoritarian societies or that originate within them and just aren't governed by the same values. Is there a way to to deal with this emerging problem. Is you know this is probably most relevant in the case of china but it does apply to other places as well so one of the <hes> streams of research we have at citizen lab is is to focus on reverse engineering chinese applications in in the social media universe there and the reason that we do that it is because companies are required under chinese law to police their users and usually that's done by having within the applications gatien's code keywords that trigger either censorship or surveillance so the only way that you can discover that is by taking the application apart and looking at it from the inside ope hope you break the encryption effectively and we've done this for dozens of applications in china and some of the researchers say. Why are we doing this. What's what's the point because people within china don't really care they <hes> they. The popularity of these applications is enormous and most people are aware aware that there is a censorship surveillance. They've they find ways to get around it but they're pretty comfortable with it on level and that that's kind of discouraging because as you know if if the aim of the research is to spotlight what's going on. We're trying to bring it to public attention and the public doesn't really care then that's <hes> pretty disheartening heartening as researchers however i still think in the long run it's important to do this to make people aware enough people care about that. Hopefully they will start to do either. Resist it in some manner or come up with alternatives that that don't include this. It's daunting to think about the impact that china's having not only internally but as you say many of these applications have millions of users outside of mainland china and they don't realize they're subjected to the same type of surveillance and censorship and also the business model is very attractive to other governments that want to do the same type of authoritarian control rolled by downloading to the private sector and i think that to me is is the most frightening part of china model is it's the potential for it to be exported and adopted and other countries in our moral. I think one of the conundrums with china in particular is because the entire social media and new digital environment has evolved completely within what used to be called the great firewall. The chinese government has been able to shape it completely and and so it's almost a to my mind that's almost impossible to get a sense of what chinese users based in china would prefer absent of that because there just isn't another alternative and when you're not presented with an alternative to that than maybe it's difficult to conceive of and marmot which that wouldn't take place <hes> what is particularly concerning its when these platforms again you know they become more global and because they're not subject to similar norms around privacy and so on <hes> dot might then set the standard for other places of the world that are not so authoritarian and perhaps people users of these platforms just come to expect that same level as you've as you've mentioned and i guess you know in in some of these settings whereas you suggest round the governments that might be the recipients of this technology or the kind of framework that <hes> <hes> privileges surveillance and gives <hes> even more of a capacity to governments to do this sort of thing in the absence of non-governmental actors who are able to put this in perspective and to help their own societies come to their own conclusion whether this will be a good thing overall are not <hes> that becomes uh-huh much more pressing issues globally and i think this is what we start to see in parts of asia we start see now in parts of sub saharan africa and elsewhere where the the chinese <hes> animated version of these technologies are really getting some traction and <hes> here too. It's not just a question for north america or the european union. This is a question that's hitting all of these societies. Yes i think <hes> here again. It's important into appreciate how the business model of social media aligns with authoritarian control so the big data part of surveillance. That's at the economic engine of social. Media is the perfect vehicle for monitoring people's behavior behavior when it comes to government control and it also makes a lot of money. There's this alignment between business incentives and government control all that's very convenient for all parties concerned so that's why you know <hes> jack. Ma and other entrepreneurs in china are so excited about for example example china's social credit system. You know the the prospect of gathering up all of this data monitoring people in just about every manner possible is a huge revenue generator for them and <hes> that's exciting to them to get involved in that <hes>. It's a win win so it. It makes it really challenging. I'm to come up with alternatives when you have that momentum behind it and then there's also <hes> what i would call them are hard edge part of the surveillance spectrum trim so things like commercial spy where other forms of electronic mass surveillance facial recognition systems and so on that aren't directly part part of social media but <hes> come out of the same basic <hes> industry and can be used for more lethal consequences that market is thriving thing is largely unregulated and is highly prone to abuse and it's one of the things that i worry about the most at citizen lab actually is the proliferation proliferation of this type of technology and what we can do to constrain it and it does come back to this question of how incentives can be shaped in a way that would keep these sorts of technologies within what we might agree are <hes> sensible democratic norms but in an era of globalization. Perhaps this is not possible anymore. You know we're we're hitting all these negative <hes> notes here. We're going to depress people unless we come up with some alternatives of those but i think it's <hes> in part the nature of of looking at things in the way that you know at least i'm trained to do you look for the kind of dark side of things and i i. I wouldn't be doing what i'm doing. If i didn't feel that there's hope that we could modify some of this and so when it comes for example to commercial spy where i think i think that's one area where you can imagine governments coming out with some regulations may be analogous to control over trade in weapons technology or or or other areas of industry and trade that regulated and enforce it and <hes> that's certainly one aim of the research that we're doing is to spotlight like the abuse and then put pressure on governments to say hey you know you could do something about us and if enough people care about the issues lobby their governments and hopefully the government will come together. Learn and say okay. We need to put a stop so i think you've hit the nail on the head of fundamentally in the absence of public mobilization either because of deeper concerns about privacy in one form or another methods of surveillance at emerged from this technology. It's it's hard to imagine meaningful changes in the absence of more public awareness and public measure. Yeah and i think that's why you know week. There is a bit of a backlash going on right now. They're people talking about you know unplugging from on facebook taking days off social media and so on when you see that happening i think it's a really ripe opportunity to start mobilizing people and in writing op-eds doing podcasts like this educating people about some of the deeper issues that they may not think about so you know while you're irradiated at at the latest scandal facebook. Have you thought about the fact that you know at the heart of this snow really to do with facebook. It's about our complicity in <unk> an economic model that is deeply entrenched. Have you thought about alternatives and i think that's the way to go about. It is to start with the kind of <hes> <hes> proselytization spos- <hes> basically educating people on what's really going on beneath the surface room and before we wrap up our conversation oversaturation. I'd like to conclude with our final segment called what we're reading where we discuss what's at the top of our respective reading this and might recommend to our listeners ron one. Tell us what you're reading reading yeah. I'm excited about this so i thought about it and i i am actually a re reading a collection of essays by h g wells called the world brain so most people know h g wells for his fantastic science fiction <hes> he's probably less well known for being a very prolific <hes> nonfiction in writer. He wrote many many of interesting tracks on the challenges of technology for liberal democracy. He was particularly really concerned about destructive technology new nuclear technology in fact in some of his early writings he <hes> forecasted the development of of nuclear weapons before they were invented but for him it was this idea of like we're we're pace of change is accelerating were were creating technologies that can intern destroy us. We need to find our way out of this how we going to do that so he came up with this idea of what he called the world brain which he imagined engine would be a a an encyclopedia that would be accessible to everyone on earth simultaneously and <hes> he talked a bit about the technology college that might support it <hes> but basically the idea. Was you know if you're living in china peru or iceland. You'd all have access to the same information and <hes> he thought that when we when we accomplish this vision the world's problems would dissolve we'd all come together in uh kind of spectacular unity so i've always been fascinated by that the collection of essays because we have a world brain now and what he the imagined is basically wikipedia and yet the outcome is entirely different rather than a us all of our problems dissolving in us coming together together in a kind of grand unity. It seems that the world brain we've created is actually accelerating division and tribalism and prejudice so is a puzzle to me how he got that wrong that is worthy of a whole podcast off eating so i'm reading something that seems like science science fiction but actually isn't it's an eye opening series of short papers published by the nato struck com center of excellence and they focus on issues ranging from robo trawling to what they term cognitive security challenges <hes> one paper that's particularly illuminating examines the black market for social media manipulation so it's essentially where buyers and sellers meet to barter likes and clicks and shares and in so doing they undermine what we think we know about what's truly trending or popular and and really undermines the integrity of the information space <hes> and a key observation from one of those papers as the russian service providers seemed to dominate the social media manipulation market cricket currently. It's something that really even though i try to educate myself on these things and i try to stay abreast of them still really fascinating see it all laid out like this listen to understand again. This is all something that's happening through what we talked about the front door as opposed to back door manipulation. It's all out there in the open so taken together all these papers i provide a really fascinating peek into a world of us know about but clearly need to get up to speed on and i'm reading the thirty years after ten and men cluster that appears here's in the april two thousand nineteen issue of the journal of democracy there five pieces and all it's really an incredible mix of people who contributed to this set of articles looking at how the world looks at tiananmen and in some cases how they're not able to look at it for example glenn tiffany has an article that talks about the erasing of the memory of tiananmen and how this impacts the view within the p._r. See other terrific articles have been contributed by one dong was one of the leaders of the student protests thirty years ago and benny tai who gives his perspective on <hes> the anniversary from hong kong and so i i encourage our listeners to get to this cluster when they have a moment well. That's all that we have time for today but i wanted to. Thank you ron for being such a terrific guest. It's been a really terrific conversation. Thank you appreciate it. That's all for today's episode. The power three point oh podcast for more on the topic we discussed today. You can read ron deeper. It's january two thousand nineteen journal of democracy article. Three painful truths about social media. You can find more of his research on the citizen lab website for further analysis of the themes we discussed today and we'll be examining and future podcast episodes visit our blog powered three point out understanding modern authoritarian tearing influence. We also invite you to join the conversation with us on facebook and twitter where you can find us using the handle at think democracy. Additional resources are available on the net website at w._w._w. Dot n. e. d. dot org slash ideas. If you enjoy today show please write us on itunes. Google play jake or whichever podcast app to use special. Thanks to our podcast production team. At the international form producer jessica ludwig are editing and sound engineer rochelle faust. I and research support for this episode by dean jackson. I'm shot the upo with chris. Walker and rendezvous hope you enjoyed this discussion on social media and risks is to digital freedom and invite you to tune in again for future howard three point. Oh podcasts.
Chateau Le Grand Moulin 2016 Costco
"Dave from cheap wine fighter dot com and we had to go from Cosco a seven hundred nine Bordeaux wine from Moscow this is the Chateau Legrand Morlin twenty sixteen ah in Bordeaux places everything and this is from the blige coach debord dough region. It's on the right bank on the north north. Most part of the right bank and it's a merlot based wine was eighty percent or low fifty percent Gabbay seven young and five percent percent cabernet franc. And that's how it is if Right Bank Cabernet Sauvignon Bank Merlot oh but it doesn't have to be that way. And it can mix in and this is on the north end of Bordeaux and all the fancy pomerol or whatever are farther farther south. This is a wine that is more of a every day wine for people in France but maybe a step up. It's not the basic winus as a little bit better. It's an estate wine Single Vineyard Estate The the Chateau Legrand have been around for over one hundred years. It's been in the family for three generations. It's legit this wind also got eighty ninety points Think James Suckling and wine enthusiasts gave the points and you know. I don't think points for for value priced. Wines are going to tell you if you're gonNA like it or not 'cause it usually doesn't because what a wine professional special looks for in a wine who's drinking three hundred dollars bottles of wine all time. They look for different things than you and I do drinking it for as much pleasure as anything. Nothing else. So but When they give it close to eighty nine ninety points that means it's a quality wine and it's well made it? A grapes are good that the production standards were good that it was done to very high standards and with a seven ninety nine one that that seven ninety nine shipped from France. That's a good thing to know and this is a very French wine. French wine isn't like California. Washington state red blends. It's it's going to have less. Ripe Fruit is going to have more structure though this does have fruit. And but it's different even there's like there's a there used to be a thing old world new world and new world was big and fruiting was all about structure and that's not so much the case everything is kind of different levels of new world now. Fruit does sell for wine in. This isn't a this male. Get Out I put it. This is more of if you're used to California wine. This is good. Have more old world than you might be used to. That's not a bad thing because Kenner resets sets your palate in. If you're used to winds that are just fruity and maybe a slight touch. Sweet nectar sweet nuts. Sugar sweet then you take one when these winds it has its tenants that has The acidity that that that shows that structure. It's it's a good learning experience that's where your palate all over again. Sometimes you forget 'cause you could be liking winds and either like anyone you want like but sometimes they might not be the best made wines enroll all fruit and flavor. You know it's like you know our milkshakes the greatest thing ever know but for you but now they taste great and you know so this might get your palate change because there are California wines do have Tannin's and acidity in that type of thing in the value price but this will be a check a pallet check as Edward. I'm going to have a taste of the moment. Because yeah there is something about boredeaux with the interplay between Merlot Cabernet. That is totally cool. One thing I've always Until I kind of started drinking Bordeaux wines. I never quite understood Merlot. I mean there would be Borland all of us out there and they were nice but they're kinda inoffensive. Nothing you remember though. I'm glad I drank it but I for two days later for drank in That there are good producers around that make fabulous Merloz. But you know it's here and there in Bordeaux drink a read up on their lands and you go. Oh that's what Merlot is all about. And this is predominant merlot upfront. And you get the the just little bidders fifty percent cabinet seventy on that little bit of cabinet on the other side had just comes into the end and you get the interplay where you get those grapes because you know you're looking for for US sometimes with a red blenders. Fourteen different grapes in there. And you can't really figure out what is what you don't care but you do care with Bordeaux you WanNa know about that interplay Merlot and Gabonese seven young and to a certain extent Cabinet Franck. Because that's Kinda were all the funds APP and this one does have it for eight dollar one. It's pretty pretty cool and has got structure. It's got look like a little bit stiff. It's got its Tannin's it's twenty sixteen and and if you need it for it's a sub ten dollars a twelve dollar wine Costco Sauna. Cheap if you look at a lot of wines from the US California Washington wherever the Tannin's are kind of take a backseat mean they. They've gotten better at it. The inexpensive wines do have Tana's China's. They're sweet they don't bite there there but to have it to wind. That really shows his tennis. And these don't bite here but you know there there is kind of Oh. Aw that's what Tannin's used to be. You know you kind of forget and this has data so it's kind of a good thing to try these now again. Not even even if. You're not a fan of French wine. It just makes you remember what structure is and it makes you pick out. Maybe better wines from California if if you are a fruit wine fan Should say fruit wine but by fruit forward wine fan. You're going to be on the getting ones with the have a a decent amount of structure is kind of the better way to go. I mean they just a better wine drink better wise and and there's more and more better wines out there but this is a. This is an inexpensive way to get into Bordeaux get into French wines are about because it does have the the era marks of what a French wine has. It's got got the structure it's got the interplay between the the Merlot and the cab cabernet both those grapes and it tastes good. It's inexpensive. It's not the same old same old took another drake. Emma does up as a two thousand sixteen. A does Tannin's in its now aged in orchids aged in cement and they make the cement vats. It's and So you know two thousand six as kind of a long time for inexpensive wine A lot of a lot of times when they make wines things are supposed to sell for around ten dollar the they make they make it with production techniques that lesson how much occas in their less than the Tana's they do it on purpose because the blanket can come together quicker and they can quicker they can come together the quicker they can sell it to you and the lower the price can be. It's you know having winds and not a great. A lot of Tannin's canons is. There's a reason for at incomes and cheaper that way so this has been around twenty just turned twenty twenty and this is a twenty sixteen steam wind. So it's been sitting around for a while but not an oak So it's been an cement tanks. Were while Weisman tanks as they make those thick enough that the there is much temperature changes and humidity changes because the cement is insulating. They they lion at. You're you're not getting all the the chemicals cement in there so it doesn't get that but like Stainless steel tanks kind of thin walled. In if there's a change of humidity there's as a change in temperature. The wine knows it and would an oak the same candidate thing. You GotTa pretty much put the Oak into a cellar earlier. Where there isn't isn't those changes in cement? Kinda does that cause wine doesn't like any kind of changes in temperature. The humidity likes to be stable and cement gives it that so it's up a lot in France and Spain maybe Italy and starting to see the United States because it does have some advantages. But here we go. This has been so this missing for a while because Tana's headed calmed down usually the in the US. It's been sitting around for while not much because Tana's gotta calm down because it's got The yoke of blend in so. This is a different philosophy philosophy from making wine. Oh another thing had as cold maceration which is something. I hadn't really seen before I maj. Otherwise have had. This is the first one that wanted the two Display that their technical notes. And what cold maceration is they refrigerate the grapes before fermentation and what that does to Kinda concentrate some trace the color and the flavors of the wine so when they start the fermentation up these refrigerator. Winds are somehow I guess there. Everything's calmed down. Because it's it's cold and Also when you go through the fermentation you're GonNa get the best of what they are. So there's some care and detail must one it's Chateau Legrand Moulin Twenty Sixteen from Cosco for seven ninety nine. It is fun it's bore does Merlot. Cabernet Sauvignon in young and Cabernet franc. It's not the same old same old. This is a French wine. I recommend drinking French. Wise eager into California wines avid every read so often just to be a regulator. It kinda puts you back in a place where structures king and move. You're not a big fan. You'd rather have the big fruit going on. It does get your pal ready for finding the other elements of wine. So that's a good thing See See where are we going now get. I'm not sure what doing next couple of days but we're going to do it And what's us. We're going to bore doe in Chicago and next week so right have a fun time. Drake in the high and stuff who at the Drake Hotel. We're GONNA have good time there. And what else is happening here. That's about it audio's drink more wine new. The French stallions Bain every other country. USA Go USA and all that and audio talk to you later.
Drunk Dial: Halloweenies
"Thank you for listening to this podcast one production available on Apple podcasts and podcast one the podcast one presents off the line drunk dial is all about dialing digits and making questionable decisions. Let's get it started happy Friday by knows and welcome to what is officially the last Friday of September did you what is happening. You're going now. It kind of freaks me out. I remember a tweeted on September first. How in this shit is it September. People were like I couldn't have said it better better myself now. It's October yesterday that yeah that was beautifully set in this shit it is I can't. I'm excited for October. Tober because I'm over September really yeah. I'm over it. I loved September. Why there is so much going on. It was fun. I liked it. It's cooling down a little bit. I love the fall two degrees. NFL started bills or three. There's nothing about September. I'm not like I'm over okay. I'm over the summer. I'm like I'm ready for fall. Okay okay sorry I didn't mean I actually don't like Pumpkin Spice Latte why they're like to creamy and milky and you can order including like okay. I don't mind an Americana with washable. MMA milkin half a pumpkin spice. See I'll take pumpkin spice. Anything literally Hojo's twinkies. Ho Ho Ho Ho what does that have you ever had a Swiss roll. Now what's now obviously they don't have in Canada twinkies. Yes and you don't know that I've had this conversation on this podcast before like years ago that I didn't know a whole hose Jojo. It's like okay so so it's take like chocolate cake bread and then if you fly you flattening out and then you put this like cream and then you roll it up and then they don't get in in a chocolate glaze on it's called like a Swiss roll or a whole Pumpkin House pumpkin spice. Hojo's my point is I'll take pumpkin spice anything. You are the most basic be. I mean. That's good unreal. I like Pumpkin Pie. So how do you not like Pumpkin spice things things. I guess I do like Pumpkin things. I just don't like Pumpkin Spice Latte as there too much glad. We know you know I'm almost invested. I want this house to be thrown up on in Halloween and like Fall Shit. Throw up thinking like your house gets toilet. The paper dragged and you're saying thrown up but now I'm with you want to hand out big chocolate bars yup and I want. We're going to dress up. I guess what I picked out our Halloween costumes well. We need to talk about this okay. I'm one chopstick. You're the other and Rahman's the Rama noodles. That's good but I duNno I duNno. I thought of that today. It's not so good chopsticks and Rahman. Let's get invited to multiple Halloween parties. We have multiple costumes because I wouldn't want that to be. That's just for for a photo shoot instagram photo shoot for Instagram then we can come up with a real multiple ones. Alright guys is want to tell you about my new favorite pair of sunglasses. We'll actually they're not that new because I've loved them for a while. Now you've probably seen me wearing them. My instagram stories or whenever I'm just out and about they're called Privee Revo and they are actually created by celebrity visionaries. Jamie Foxx Ashley Benson and Hailee Steinfeld to shake up the eyewear market privee revolt was founded on the belief that head turning style should not be a luxury no more spending hundreds of dollars sunglasses to get the style that you want. Privee revolt evoke sunglasses are so cute fashionable and common amazing styles and start at just twenty nine ninety five they offer sunglasses anti blue light and reader glasses so you can get whatever it is that you need an each pair of handcrafted glasses has high standards and low prices. We all love to see that. There's polarize lenders enders one hundred percent. UVA Protection and lenses with blue light blocking technology they leave no stone unturned when it comes to creating the most affordable high quality handcrafted eyewear on the market visit Privee Revolt Dot Com and use Promo code off the vine fifteen and get your next pair of handcrafted sunglasses buses to fit your unique style. That's Purveyor of Oh dot com and enjoy fifty percent off your first purchase. When you use Promo Code off the vine fifteen that's p. R. I V. E. R. E. V. A. U. X. Dot Com for fifty percents off. I'll just had the best massage of my whole career. Robin Fraser everybody everybody at Franklin massage. I like a hard massage. I like it rough and I feel like everyone's always like oh that means you probably such a freak in the sack but I'm not pretty vanilla okay so I thought we were going to really dive into the whole Halloween theme. Get extra excited because it's the last this is where my brain goes. Okay tell you about when it's almost October I I think it's time to start talking about fall and festive and scary shit and guess what it's it's been windows do you do you know and like summer. Officially ends is officially ended on the twenty first yeah so i. I think we're in default. Yes we're very premature. Let's make sense. Nothing's worse than being premature but get nukes Topi. You don't like when I talk about that. okay but did you know that it's also national national holidays. I always look up what data's because podcast content and I'm like curious. It's national ghost hunting day today. Yeah let's go to one hundred house. I love hothouses huge haunted House Fan. I like scary movies so my birthday's October twenty fourth and there is one. Maybe even two maybe three birthday parties I had at haunted houses and that's cool yeah yeah and then you find out who your real friends are. Is there like if they hate haunted houses and they still come because I was little I wouldn't have gone. It's so funny because one of my best girlfriends and my best guy friends at the time who ended up updating for like a couple of years didn't work out but they were the two that would never ever go inside. Yes actually roby's wife Diana. That's cute okay so before we get into the Halloween topic. I was like what happened in Vegas this past weekend that we talked about nothing really exciting. I mean exciting yes but embarrassing. No I mean so I took the first life is beautiful the show you've never been to a music festival in your like jaw-dropping the whole time looking at people's outfits your head on the swivel. You couldn't believe your eyes. I mean I knew that you dressed a certain way for festivals Naira League going on you know I had the fanny pack. The graphic tees ahead rap contrast how to dress yeah no I didn't. I don't think I did the right one. Because this festival it was all about thongs. They're big cheeks putting Mike XS over their nipples thing right. Yeah it really is it's art. I know life is beautiful. It was a great music festival. Although although I'm really mad didn't show up because I was really looking forward didn't show up like ten minutes before he's supposed to he probably wasn't even in Vegas but we kicked kicked off with with Lauren Zima coming. What A TREAT DALLAS. She is just so much fun and obviously we anyone who knows learns the version of but when she's just like herself out during the interview she is hilarious. Lugar up with Tequila Lubar up yeah. Actually I loved her up. I was the bartender then omitted extra strong. I just don't like say that you loved her up only both Lucarelli. You said you lived up there. I did so Russia. It was a really fun podcast and I. It won't air because the sound quality was just terrible. Was it's funny too much. there's like you could hear music in the background going on in the festival. It just wasn't good so we're going to do another one because everybody but he deserves to hear. Lauren Zima speak and she took up the Improv classes when she was younger so she's good she's awesome and then I did Nikki glaser a whole other world holy. Hell that that woman is my favorite comedian. She has a really funny netflix special coming out October first and she just did the roast Alec Baldwin and she is the most inappropriate which I love love say shock value humor which we're going to try and take at least twenty minutes from the podcast that we did and put a desert drunk because it's it's good luck yeah so. I didn't know I didn't know Nick Dollars. I'm so bad with knowing I'm caitlyn is really getting into pop. Pop culture like learning about all the people who are players etc but I didn't know who Nikki Glaser was matter. She's so sweet but when you're meter she says blonde petite honestly behind the scenes like relatively quiet. I would say shy reserved and that I tyrod stage. I could not believe my eyes and ears was it made she makes Caitlyn. Look like Angel again. Absolute absolute rated Joel Yeah. I was like Whoa it's I mean anyone just watcher stand up. It's it's it's my favorite kind of humor. Everybody knows it. It's shock value humor and she delivers Lillard savers but yeah we had fun vegas one of money gambling. I'm getting pretty good at the blackjack table. You're really good and the night that we went out. I'm like walk into the sculpture. I'm like I'm not not going to do. She Bottle Service Club. I hate it here. We walk it. I'm like I WANNA go to bed. We're with Brandy Cyrus at having dinner and breath again. I'm going to go to bed. I'm like yeah. I'm pretty tired too and then all of a sudden I'm hanging from the rafters jumping on couches at this club throwing confetti up in the air shoutout the J. Silver. He hooked up his birthday invited us. Dj Silver. He'd be a great cat again podcast. He opens up for Kane Brown Luke Homes Jason Aldean's gene and he's here based in. Nashville great guy invited us to go to the foundation room and Kayla was like has attention because she was shot. We get there and Caitlyn when full force forced Kaitlyn Bristowe Katrina had four yeah. That's Miami did was number. We had the band going where you're taking everything plan yeah and then we went even after when gambling four in the morning box it was great. I love it. It's so fun where'd already plays. We're home. We're so focused. We have our checklist. We just move one hundred miles an hour. We go to bed at nine o'clock and then when we travel it's like we become where wolves yeah. It's just like Ham town Mike. Let's go drink everything a donald's in the mountain town little bone in ham bone and Ham town. anyways. Vegas was fun which we had more embarrassing story than that but it was pretty uneventful. I mean not not automate any confession yeah like too over the top okay so I took things to the facebook. Group for Kenya Knott's Halloween scary scary stories as usual. They did not disappoint so let's let's read a couple of Katie nuts. Can you not my can you not for Halloween is is always. Can you not use Halloween as an excuse to be like a slutty something like a hot nurse or like a hot. Somebody found a hot mister Rogers Rogers costume and said to me in a viral. I want when I want to be like full. Go full Mr Rogers. You don't go hot mister Rogers. Ask you back. Can Your Day did you use. A Halloween is an excuse. I was seventeen years old. I want as hot nurse and that was the only time I've ever done a hot something well some people do it at different stages of the light so to reach their own. I hear that I guess I just did an Instagram Post. Say No matter what age show tell people. Don't let people tell you how to dress. It's just my personal. Oh can you not following Lindsay Michaela Michaela Combo. Oh let's three names. Can you not have ninety ninety degree weather and fall hell. Yes I agree more with that Destiny Schaefer. Can you not ask when it's to go back real quick so back in Buffalo. We all can you not snow we would have it'd be tough the trickery trick or treat because it would be snowing same with Edmonton so you need a happy medium. Where what was the one you weren't GonNa do. What do you mean just now screwed it up. Oh I thought it was like destiny. Schaefer said Kenya ask if it's too early to put up your Halloween decor your house Halloween's awesome do do it through really. Can we take those Christmas lights down after January eleventh eleventh specifically all right keep it up Christmas lights. It is here yeah we could do. Christmas Okay Allison Debord said Kenya not display Christmas items when it's not even Halloween yet I disagree you think you can put up Halloween decorations before Halloween. I think first of all she said display Christmas items first of all. I think it's never too early to you. Start Christmas like I'm the kind of guy that'll do Christmas in July. I'm Christmases well. Yeah Christmas. July is always a good idea but I like Christmas this second after Halloween's over November first. Let's Christmas Eve for these companies got to prepare and get their stuff out. Fine Casey Matheson says can you not laugh at me for dressing is he not my dog and a Halloween costume. Leave her dog alone. She said this is my child. Your child is dressed up. I don't see the issue here. Use Your childhood go to for Costume Winnie the Pooh. I was a clown in jail clown and Winnie the Pooh for me. One of the Pool I mean full-blown offers now. Scott got costume with my face. Cut Out with like why mom would do these key. I'll show you thought so we used to do is go trick or treating and come back and every year it sort sort my candy so take really like you put your own and M.'s and the other to dump out your whole bag and let's see what you got to categorize them. So what's your favorite in what your worst candy well worst. Candy is the rockets those rockets with our rockets. You know exactly what rockets are. You guys probably have a different name for them. Stay worse candy like I couldn't stand when we get milk duds. Oh yeah does chocolate cover worry about that. Ugly chocolate covered nugget but it's like super hard rip strategic out you guys call these smarties Candy Rolls Smarties Yeah Yeah those are smarties rockets rockets well. You and I need to start a dictionary of our differences. Those are rock are there's nothing about those that are ever Iraq well. That's what I typed in candle came out like rockets now. I don't what who's great now. I'll show you what smarties are those. Are they smarties. He's on the package smarty do this. All those are all Amazon's coming up. These are smarties chocolate covered aw I am an ems. Does it not say smart. They're calls but that's not. That's a Canadian thing yeah community their eminence. Whatever that's what your favorite candy. My Favorite Candy Handy was this is again Canadian o Henry's Henry's. My favorites like anything gummy bears gummy worms sour gummy worms sour patch fish. I thrown off. Don't like Swedish Berries Love Swedish. I don't think anyone in the world is days on all right okay so as we all know every car comes with its share of stories that Ding in your bumper from when you nervously picked up a first date the luxury package that you got after a big promotion or or the mileage you save by riding your bike all summer and while you can't put a price on your stories now with truecar you can at least find out what your car's worth when it's time to sell or trade it in just go to truecar simply enter your license plate number and watch how your car's details pop right up then answer a few questions like if you have a navigation navigation and moon roof watch as they bump up your value high mileage. Will you already knew it was gonna cost you but now you know how much things your wallet so you can plan ahead. Once once you're finished. You'll get a true cash offer centene minutes which you can take to a local certified dealer to cash out or trade in so when you're ready to experience a better way to sell or trade in your car check out truecar today true cash not available in all areas Janey Stephanie Lease Has Kenya not give my kids pencils as treats trigger. Who Does that Cher's Oh Gary. I've never received a pencil in my life. I think I did they always say like don't give Fruit Reich as it's poisonous. Did you ever get like apples pulls or anything like that stupid. What is the we've got so pumped when somebody gave me a full cantopop. This'll be whether you call it. Pop Soda Yeah. That's exciting I want. We need to put a tweet weed out there. What is the weirdest thing you've ever gotten trick or treating. good idea look at it gave bill forget that. I WanNa know pads but you up pencils was crazy. I think both are crazy. K Don't let me forget about that. tweet okay tammy. Hind says. Can you not have those fake hands. He's hanging out of the trunk of your car. I think it's dead body every time who is the Sicko doing that off those yeah like they'll decorate and they do that. Yeah makes me question. The Person Daniele esposito sounds sexy Kenya not give me a death stare because I don't like Halloween. Leave me alone Susan. Well Susan might be right on this one and we've exchanged Susan for Paddy but what you don't let this Danielle. You're probably not even listening to this podcast and it's all about allowing okay. I won't give your desk there but I will judge you Kelsey Zach men. Can you not continue to ghost. We tis the season ghost ghost men who ghost our pussies like just say that you're not into it or something like. I hate the coward. It's crazy the whole here ghosting ray now MTV ghosting Rachel Grossing podcast asked on ghosting like have you ever got all these things no. I don't think it's such a ridiculous thing by the way it's like if you're done you're done if you say like it's friendship not friendship unshipped true and if they're ghosting just like I mean I guess I've goes to if if you're done goes to anything it's like if you're getting ghosted. Just say like what's going on up and getting answer yeah yeah. I think it's you know yeah just man up and say hey this is going to bid. This isn't GonNa work now. Let's see Flynn says. Can you not invite me to a Halloween Party and leave out that it's not a costume party. That's the oldest trick in the book. I would don't feel proud to show up in a classroom. If nobody else was I'd be like William Party. Allow a big Fan of theme parties like even not during Halloween theme parties. Are I love horribly power ranger. No we can't because why because I did that a couple of years ago. I don't want to be a power ranger. Well you can't can't we. WanNa be Tommy okay well. One night you can go. Tommy in Aldous Decide K. I said one night you can tell me and I'll go something. That'd be one of those like putty things. A what have you ever seen power rangers like the puppies things they don't use. I've seen Zord Zoro. I don't know what you're talking about. You watch toy story. Well yesterday's rex okay calling me cheap otherwise rex uh-huh okay so Taylor Pascua says I have a Halloween Confession. That's hilarious still haven't told anyone until this day so why not now we're calling her. What's her name Taylor Pass. I'M GONNA ask you how to pronounce your last name is Hello Hi Taylor Caitlyn and Jason. How are you you. I'm good. How are you this at the office so I just put in the most at the time man girlfriend a friend I'd be. Tgi question for you though okay. How do you see your last name. okay we WANNA hear noise. Pasqua's squad where now we're sounding French. I was trying to sink Hawk would eat so you have a Halloween confession for us. That's hilarious. We need to hear it okay so to press it so I went to this college party and is like sort of talking to these two guys like did you have any intention with them but I kind of found out that they they were through a friend that they were trying to like tag team me when I found out so I had this elaborate plan that I thought was going to go over so well but it was ended up being see Graham various thing for me so basically it was a big Halloween Party and I knew the neighborhood and so the big apartment complex but they'll apartment with the party was huge brought ten two thousand dancers say roughly ten to fifteen different costumes to change into because I thought they wouldn't recognize me if I kept changing so the text me and asked me what I was wearing that night so I pulled them like I'm done so I was like a fairy prisburg insignia on how the what am I on and then I let both of them see me at the point when I walked in but they act like I didn't stop to think either one of them. An immediately went into the laundry of my costumes and changed so then I went back into the party and I just walked around. I didn't know anyone there. Luckily there was a girl also like one of my classes and I she's only knows what I did this and she ended up calling me change throughout the night or like you saw when I'd like run the other way but then they kept like trying trying to come find me and then like once they come talk to me. They didn't even notice that I was changing really because everyone was I going going change again and I literally went through probably twelve to fourteen of the outfits that I brought only at the end of the night I was just getting wasted them uh-huh and they were like Oh we were you wearing that earlier. Oh yeah like are you like. Do you know what I'm wearing like I do and then I went back to the Lonzo. Andrea Change Your last time and I thought busted changing in the laundry room. I was just in like fitness and pasties pushing out and security guard come in. I'm like CAN I. I was like yes but as naked pretty much changing into another costume do and there's these cautions all over the floor. It was like two in the morning at this space like no one coming to do their laundry on Halloween night. Oh apartment complex ex- keeping in the laundry room in like feel like it was a communal laundry room and I was just changing and then come to find out the cameras in there and I I was just changing. That's okay wait younger wait. We have questioned okay so I said put it on mute just because I I was is a little confused so the reason can you just explain one more time. The reason why you had all the costumes cues them I question was how the hell do you fourteen. We know different costumes set up when I can't even think of one so I was a dancer my all right and competed so I hadn't even pretty costumes is that we're like you know they were two piece outfits and like cute but also like MP for Halloween nine. This was like a purple lavender that I started with and it was like Oh unlike a criticize it's like and I like had the jewels on my face and I would like to take the jewels off my face and seems like a lot of work. It was honestly they didn't reach their goal goal at the end of the night which made me really happy because if you're trying to like mess with me like I'm a mess with you back. We'll come back or you could punch them. Both in the deck and say you get in. This is a confession. I almost started a confession thread on on the vine feeds because I think it'd be hilarious but I'll well. You GotTa do it for when you gotTa do it. I'll go along if you ever run out of confessions and you could just read art yeah I do that sometimes actually ideal We'll do that for me because I want to go read. Go get everybody to do Halloween confessions than I can go read them. Oh Yeah Yeah definitely more of the story. Don't get junk. Don't change outfits. Don't get contacted by guard drink and stay away from boys who want to tag team. You honestly Oh man okay well. Thank you for sharing and we really appreciate your confession. Hollowing this time chairs guy scares well. She just took a big swing but still those guys to be yeah. That's what I was following it. I thought the purpose was to deceive him by the purposes like to see them both in trying to end end up with one so I was confused all the changing the outfits was but now I get it. She's like I'm just GONNA with them. I mean that's funny. Yeah just a lot of work. I mean he forever offer. He's probably got so many good instagram photo. Sony different outfit changes okay. We're going to call one more person. Her name is Eliza and this I read a little bit of what it is but I'm going to let her explain it. Because it sounds super creepy grew high elicits caitlyn Jason. How are You oh my God. I'm so hard you work. Are we bugging you know on that. Oh good okay. Where where are you from. I'm from tech omitting okay. I I WANNA straight to your story because I need you to explain. I was going to read it out and then I'm like no. I'm going to let us do it because this is nuts. So tell us your story okay so growing up I had imaginary I friend and nervous so I always knew his name like my family always talked about him and so when I was about nineteen or so eighteen nineteen we went to Virginia which which we went every summer and I found out that my imaginary friends my cousin uncle persons eight of an uncle but he's a cousin and he he ended up having the same actually a friend they may I was like well. That's weird and then talking about it. We found out that my younger cousin who I grew up with also had the friends and save name. It was like crazy in crazy so I had to do my research and I went on to Google and I read search his name and I found a death certificate for the same town uncle was living in which is Abingdon Virginia and I one result and my my computer like kept freezing and I could never get into it like look at more information. Try to take pictures search for my brother because I'm like crazy and my phone is like an ice on for something and it kept freezing and I was like what is happening like Senate to trying to send the email and it wasn't working and so like everything was frozen around the and like I just felt something on my ear and it was just like Oh aw I threw my laptop through my phone. I grabbed my keys. Radovan apartment didn't even lock the Adore John. I'm sorry I come my car on my mom God and ever since then it's like not talked about him or research thirteen or anything. It scares the crap out late. That's so crazy now when you have this imaginary friend was was he like like. Could you assume or was he just in your mind on like. I don't remember him. by parents would say that. I was just talking about all the time like the friends and so it was never like a evil spirit. I guess than ever felt bad thing until that day. Okay though I just Kinda felt like he was like all right. You know what you need to stop. That's true today. Today is national aw ghost hunting day right national goes hunting day so what a while soy what I thought I I thought the story was going to end in the fact that you're now dating a guy by the name of your imaginary friend now. She'll never what happens. uh-huh I was so worried that like one thank you feel like Oh. This is my mattress like. No we still oh oh my gosh wait. How old is your son. You don't be five still time doesn't imaginary imagination so what's his name land and that was going to be my name. If I was a boy Oh yeah yeah it's a good one. It is they're good. I'll give give land a little hug from us. I will I love you for sharing your stories wild and if he comes back I'm gonNA blame you guys. Send them my way. I'll take care of them. Okay thank you you good day. You feel by Aung Sweet. That's crazy okay. That is it's crazy. I have one more story store. I have one more story. Okay so wait was this is not okay. This is one of those that didn't happening happening but it happens to a coworker friend sister's friend so I don't know but it's crazy. She said there was this girl that went out with the boy on an online dating platform and wink great. They are going to see each other again. The next day she was house sitting and felt like something was off or that. Someone was watching her. She went to the bathroom and came back to find her phone missing. She picked up the landline. Call the COPS said Hey I don't know if I'm being crazy or what but my phone's missing and I felt like zones been watching me all day. The dispatcher was being kind of mean and said Oh you're fine. We'll have a cop drive by in a few hours. It's just probably in your head. We have this happen a lot. Within fifteen minutes three cop cars pulled up and banged aimed on the door grabbed her and took her to the COP car and it turns out the boy she went on a date with the previous night was in the basement with a tarp laying on the ground and her phone was in it and whenever the girl called the cops the dispatcher heard someone dial into the phone realizing that she was in danger and didn't WanNA. Give it away how serious it was or that. The cops will be coming so that they would scare off the killer sales so he was just like I mean if that's true. ooh That's creepy. I get scared from like Uber. Drivers will get pauline dating can be so scared to like you. Don't like why do. I do all this shit yeah weird. That's again listen. How it starts didn't happen to me but it happened. One of my coworkers friends sisters you can never rose okay last one my sorority houses from Emma Catherine. My sorority houses is extremely haunted. It was built over one hundred years ago by a pediatric psychiatrist who kept his most disturbed patients in the basement in cages to study the cages are still in the basement and all the doctors notebooks are still on the shelves in the House. When I lived there I heard footsteps when no one else was awake. Closet doors would slam lights would turn off and multiple little girls heard whispering voices one day a pair of shoes fell on their side as they were sitting just just sitting on the floor. We would hang close in one clause in at night in the morning. They'd be the other closet and she said I've many specific stories but that was just the start of the creepy things that they endured at their college. If that was actually the history of the House I couldn't live in me either like there was a at our school my agenda. Seo's about three two three years after I graduated. There is a triple homicide at this house that that students lived in such such a sad time at the school but that house in my opinion like you got to like knock it though like who how can I live in something something I don't know I just couldn't do cages notebook. Still there yeah like word now happen but if you burn them does that like. Oh make the spirits birt's extra mad auto. I don't know I'm freaked out. Well the reason I even got on this topic and we will wrap it up right away. Because do you know who calling is. She does like Miranda sings. She's she's a character you to character but she just had a baby and so she. I'm wondering if it's still on there so she was by herself with her baby who's like look very little like can't talk nothing she's by herself and and she was playing with the baby and the baby has decided that he likes to take off the hats that she puts on him now broker and so she was video recording very national okay she was recording it and she goes taking your hat off and he took it off and you hear a demon voice of of a woman going stop in the background and she didn't even know that happen until someone was like what was what the no yellow because you know there she went back and listened and there was like a ghost demon voice. I want to get her to send it to me video. Yeah it was the craziest thing so so. Why am I so intrigued. Go stories and I know I kind of want it. This is like I'm asking for it. Excuse me I'm asking for like a death sentence here hi doing. I WANNA ghost thing to happen to me. Okay ask for it. It'll have happened in this house before. Just ask for it. It'll happen to you. Yes like seriously like you've seen shit move and stuff like that. You do not know the story about how we called the coffee call nine one one at two in the morning and eight cop showed up here and it was actually just a ghost that turned on our TV Rica me out and that's why Rahman Barks and the living room because you think he sees a ghost yeah. Did you see the thing on people on People's instagram page where it just that there was a wheelchair that just started moving by itself and it was going uphill and like going around. Look it up people happy. Halloween towns wide open. Listen to this at night and have a good. We hope you have a great weekend. Go to seven eleven right now. We'll be back in time for the game. I don't know man. I don't want to Miss Kickoff. Okay but rebels are two for five dollars right now when I use my seven eleven up dude but kickoff but how are we going to stay on top of our game while watching this game if we're not on that seven eleven game that I don't know keep up dude two for five red bull with my seven eleven ap. Oh okay all right. I'm feeling you now thank you seven eleven B Game Day ready plus tax where applicable valid at participating locations.
Katie DeBord: BigLaw CIO
"Policing you need to be better aware from Brian. K it's featured beats law a show about legal technology and innovation and the thought leaders to make it happen. I'm Muhammed line along with my co-host, candy Williams. We talked to Katie board. Chief innovation officer, Bryan cave. Talks about what it's like to be the chief innovation officer thousand attorney international law firm in some of the challenges she faces daily basis, Katie again. Thanks for being on future means law. The first question I wanna ask you is pretty simple once you're the chief innovation officer of Bryan cave. So first of all what are the chief innovation officer mean? And what does it mean at a large law firm? Sorry, I actually think this is a green question in a great way to start off. Because I think that it's a it's a fairly novel role in in the law firm setting there, are I think about ten of us worldwide for my last count, and we try and get together annually in evidence instill a fairly new role. It's something that drives from the former world, and it's essentially the corporate world recognize think about ten years ago, then you need to have dedicate someone fulltime to innovation strategy and sort of went to the future. Like of of our company of our service, delivery embar customer base, and of our demand in a way that that expands beyond sort of thing today. Neither sales are manufacturers or a budgeting center ad. So so the the created this wrong chief innovation officer in in. I think it's expected to law firms because law firms have recognized especially the larger law firms crying you have recognized the importance of innovating booth Howard. The ring client services at MC fines of products were delivering to our clients and how we can better serve our clients and soon that is my role. My job is to think globally in strategically about Howard. Currently delivering services how we can change our livery to meet new demands. And when those need to be gonna look like in two years five years and so forth. So how why you so why did Bryan cave? Choose you and pick you internally to leave this. So I I can only give you my person do. Essentially. So I I was litigation earner in practice litigation for about fifteen years. And when our new from cheer took over Teri Pritchard took over in two thousand fifteen on one thing that she did was initiated a new strategic plan, and what was four none of that strategic plan. Is that the firm essentially operates with three, you know, high priority pillars were waiting ships expertise in innovation and when she when she taken over as from share she and I had conversation before the strategic plan was initiated or a launched about innovation in it was essentially the conversation of it's very hard. When you're in the trenches relegating or practicing law and meeting current demands to also be thinking about how we can be doing things differently. And you know, I had had suggested. To hurry. Your prior. You know, the the notion of you know, of creating in a role or we at something I suggested to her, but we talked about this and talked about serve the corporate precedent for this. I had just reviewed some of the innovation awards that had been publicized in Europe. And was looking at some of the firms who have people in this role in. I just thought it was interesting I never necessarily never actually thought of myself in the role on. But I always thought it was interesting. And I always thought innovating what we do for clients in Howard doing. It is paramount and soon strategic plan was publicized in watched. The firm, Terry. And in my my predecessor, John Albert contacted me and said, you know, you have these conversations with Terry. What do you think about doing something like this and really working across the firm across various practice groups, and obviously working across operation groups to really drive some of our strategy in. I thought it on it for while. Because to be candid, I I always love litigating. That was not it was not spur me. You know, you hear about sort of the the litigators who don't wanna litigated in that was not me, but I decided to take the job in. It's been really fun challenging job security. I know you talk generally about innovating in terms of client service, and then some of the services and products we deliver. I don't know if you can go a little bit more Greenlee granular and just help us understand. What does that mean is that using data more efficiently is that sort of figuring out how we can deliver? Ever higher quality services at a lower cost. What does that look like? So the the answer is all of the violence, and I think part of the what is that look like this the key the key question pardon? When it looks like is understanding current technological capabilities of things like machine learning in products out there, incorporating anger in machine learning in understanding how you can use those products within your own practice in. Oftentimes, it's understanding how technology can be used maybe for purposes other than it's originally use case, it'd be an example, I'm in a winning sample that we are looking at is key cure, which is traditionally in imminent due-diligence renewal. And what we're looking at it for is is using it to identify in col- precedents and in other kind of. Work product to augment our knowledge management, a repository. So that would be one example, there's other examples of other technology that we're looking at for various use cases. But I think that's just that's one one way that you inundate client service is that you ensure that you are, you know, about you understand you're using the right tools for the problem. They have or the solution. They're trying to to solve, you know, another tool that we are actively using in that we really like is near the logic. And that's, you know, an automated decision making tool that we're using to create a suite of products at our startup group. And we're we're actually using it and some other groups as well. But that that is, you know, a tool that can have a lot of variable uses depending on client weed in it really is a matter of just understanding what it's capabilities are. And then when you hear the client problem, you can offer the solution because you understood. Band what they're the oval solutions. Are how do you work with that given that there are so many attorneys in your firm, for example, that have many different levels of technology expertise? How do you how do you drill down and actually get all the attorneys to not only get expertise where they can use it if they actually adopted so initially when I when I initially took on this role. I decided to create pairs of attorneys who were interested in these kinds of technologies and interested in in being at solutions in as I grew out sort of my base of of attorneys who were really proactive about, you know, Morphing their legal solutions using technology for lack of a better word than you've developed. What a group called Tech's, and it essentially that group is a group of partners associates paralegals in an folks on the operational side. Who are our core kind of Ford. There are thought leaders. On technology, and technological solutions. Because the reality is every attorney in this firm cares about delivering the best legal service for defiant. Not everybody in the firm is is positioned individually to know everything about you know, where the state of technology is and how it can change their practice. So what we need is a go to group that represents each of the practice areas where those individuals can essentially be the the consultants on for the group on kind of technologies are changing the landscape of the practice, and how that particular practice through communes technology. You mentioned you've tested Kira? And meteorological are there any other technologies that you've tested or that? You're wear of coming down a pipeline that have you particularly excited it. Well, we're testing a lot of technology right now. I mean went another one is raven. That is you know, that also includes a machine learning component to it. We are. We are currently right licensing Ross. And that is the bankruptcy research tool is currently in bankruptcy. But they're expanding it using Watson's in Watson power. And we are highlighting Fred KM, which is a collaboration tool and sort of a, you know, an alternative communications tool arm for attorneys missiles menacing, I think those are the big ones. So this way, you mentioned Ross I I know that whenever I talked to anyone who is aware of Ross. They automatically say, oh, you guys are gonna be replaced by robots in twenty years. Do you think that they I might get to the point where voyeurs may either be obsolete or just what they do is drastically reduced changed anyway obsolete? No in I think, I think the answer to that question is that just as you know, when I started faxing lawn two thousand one we still have keeper discovery in. We were viewing individual pieces of paper for relevancy. And be Francis. For clothing through you know, the data in dinner. Find relevant information has been streamlined significantly by technology assistant review, just as that process has made it easier for tourneys to really drill down on key issues and identify, you know, kind of the core the meaningful elements of their representation of any particular client. I think that's technology will do I think the idea that you know, that technology will replace us. I in my mind, if you're worried about technology replacing you than me to be better lawyer because our experts. I, you know, I I mean, you know, it's it means on Hurst than our expertise comes from the the human aspect of understanding situationally, everything, you know, that impacts, you know, a dispute or representation, it's it's having that three hundred sixty degree picture understanding, the judge understanding the business risks and elements involved in any particular representation understanding personalities in how to capitalize on that understanding how to use precedence and analogous case lawn statutes to make certain arguments that are relevant to your facts of your case, you know, haven't necessarily been argued before and invested human element that technology will will often so Pence changing even if it doesn't actually replace attorneys. Definitely the of law is just a second all has always a changed the price of li- might be for the better. You know, when I. Again, I started it was paper filing. And we cut to have have, you know, our pleadings downed and paper and mill to the courthouse and with electric violin? You can you know, work till midnight, push the button, and you're changing always attend to business. Unbundling is not my sound subsidies. My attributes that there's an online is that sort of what we see exponential is. I don't I wouldn't use. The term bundling legal services differently in Bryan. We we don't necessarily provide unbundled legal services over be careful about that one. But you know, what I what you see the ex-president VCX funded in new consultancy group that was launched by the client technology in practice economics group in November of two thousand sixteen in what you see in what you're seeing in the purchase of law. Generally. It is is that there is a recognition among the lawyers that earliest for Bryan cave. There's a recognition that increasingly legal representation is not just involved binary representations of one matter, you know, with the client that there's oftentimes, you know, a holistic service that we can provide to our clients based on our understanding of their operation. Sion's of their legal risks of their matters in what you know, what facts are elements are driving certain matters or stip certain flows of litigation in really working with our clients to develop Felicity business solutions that at the end of the day, mitigate, you know, or at least decrease their risk, which is alternately, you know, our job. And so we see exponent works with clients to for example, claim is having problems managing their contracts worldwide. And the law department timing struggling with communicating with the business units, or you know, the execution of contracts is taking too long. And so the business units are circuit. They're circumventing the lot of Hartman together. They don't have a handle on contracts are expiring, and obviously creates risk and potential litigation risks that kind of thing is something where BCS could come in and worked with the the lot of -partment shoe implement in a. Side a contract management solution platform that we've hydrate platform, but then also provide the legal services associated with that help provide inflate list of terms help identify win contracts. Mead ex additional levels of review based on the risk of involved with the contract and really help our clients get a handle on their operations that is one example of the kinds of things that we can do as the exponent. Some sounds like BC's exponent was born out of problems that clients were having managing their own legal processes, and that they had communicated to Bryan cave, and then Bryan cave took the initiative to suck the service. Is that right? That's right. I mean, these this expertise that we have in these groups is is about a decade old in o n and was was built endure. John our, and so this is something that I think it was head of years in the making in terms of both clients starting to wreck. Ignite dinner fi their own challenges in two thousand sixteen is not unusual at all for finding to have a chief of legal operations within their lot of Herman structure that was probably unheard of or mostly unheard of back in two thousand support of it is clients themselves understanding that their operations legal operations needed veteran. Tighter management in Brian king flexing to help the legal operations departments meet their their own goals. So yes Muhammad. I think it was conversations. But I think those conversations of evolved over many years, how does this work in that corporate contacts? It sounds like I heard you mentioned contract management when I heard a lot more about litigation. So does this apply, for example in emanate deals or Jones and things like that? That are just more in the corporate context in do Jimmy by this. You mean, the BBC exponent services are just no, yeah. I mean -absolutely. In you know, again for the work that knee. Do it's about making streamlining mitt matter management and operational management of legal matters. Visit matter what kind of of why relates to or legal, you know, legal issue relates to for example, in the corporate stays you. Could you could see potentially due diligence support on due-diligence all the way through post merger integration in the new you can envision scenario where we also come in help integrate contracts into a system to to have sort of the the the the new co feel to it. And so it really it really is all about identifying where there's gaps are problems. And then looking at either technology or process, you know, advice or both, and it's always also in conjunction with legal advice. That's where we're back. I, you know, when I emphasize that we are BC exponent really is fast as were working him in hand with our attorneys because that's that's where we have the differentiation were able to go in as one team and really work with our clients to get it get against the Lucien of place. I know you mentioned the BBC exponent is a recent initiative has been an opportunity for clients to provide you feedback on some of the services, you provided or is that this is still too early to tell you know, one of the latest recognitions was through that we received the ACC champion award, which is difficult to work to get for St. GIS. And it was in recognition on a solution. We put together for that Robyn. And and and that was you know, that was something that I think reflects the that holistic legal service delivering that we can provide for clients we've had we've had many other success stories, but that win is obviously need to be careful about client names. Not once the public. So I have a question. So since you came from obviously, many years of being a commercial litigator. So how's your day different? What what's different about? What you do every day supposed to do before? You know, I would say. When thing is I lost lots calls. He. But that's a good thing. You know, part of my job is very communicating with people and those so that I can find problems and then also know about solutions. So I mean, I'm kind of this bridge in many different directions for people in next fun. I liked that alive. You know, litigation out the word fun. I don't hear many litigators use the word fun. I would. But I think it was finding hunker down. Right. Every said, so. I was going with that to you. But those days are over of brief writing I would say I have a bird's eye view in awareness of both lot our own law firm structure and strategy as well as the legal innovation innovation communities that I never had before. I mean to be candid it is. It is amazing in humbling in thrilling to be able to get to know the the people must community that that are making such big differences to really think about how our practice can change for the better. And that's that's a lot of fun as well. So that's really interesting since you have your eyes and ears in so many different places. What are the types of things that are you're hearing from maybe clients or other attorneys or people in the legal innovation community about other ways that a large law firm like Bryan cave can innovate further. Did they conversation that everybody has no one is able to address is film lower. The structure of the law firm around the billable hour, and in that is there's no solutions that human as offered no no solutions for a firm. A large law firm in. I think that there is a lot of conversation about delivering some product ties solutions with clients together with legal advice like me cenex funded is doing, but, but frankly, very few firms are are structured to do that and send out some it's Frankie if they become at lots of conversation around that and less of partition around AI, and we're you know, how can meet the thought leaders in driving the AI and using AI in, you know, did they need it out where it currently is versus inner where it can move five years. I think that there's a lot to that. I think most of the major categories that are the topic of discussion. So you mentioned this before that, I guess with Brian. For example, that they've had a lot of these innovations in house and now it's become this division. And all that. So was this originally was bringing it as a separate division was that a client focused approach or how did that come about? It actually came about partly because when I came into this role end learned so much more about what the pig inclined technology for doing. I think practice economics group is at favorites. I was really impressed. Because it, you know, it was they were addressing problems that you know, in mind in I've been been through three law firms in notating considered addressing those types of problems in my right, particular example, that you could feel free to actually well, it's the example, I'm just going to use the red Robin in the contract management example, I need of literally building a technological tool. You know to solve the problem. But thing. Combine that with we go advice contract free lists and in flows in a process flows in when you have a contract man, if it doesn't contain any of these elements in it can be celebrated for sign off to this group. If it does you no need for their roles. Let's automate that process of the right people getting approved roles immediately and can seem in what the elements of the contract are that they need to approve quickly and center inner to to just maintain a good slow contracts that that to me was was a little bit mind blowing and the fact that we develop our own proprietary technologies. Mind-blowing? I I, you know, was very proud of read the firm in these there's had accomplished now as I really learned about it more in. I also felt like there was an opportunity to make the that were more visible and by branding. Under the division. You see exponent it really gives us a different way. To articulate what those do in an awesome Gibbs can pushes coronate focus on you know, on the word. And so I don't wanna statements just a matter of branding. But in some ways, it was free ending the expertise that we've been developing over ten years of that had finally home unaided in miss, meek, advisory and tech development capability. So what's what's the vision for VCX them? Now that you are doing all these you're testing, experimenting with all these different kinds of technology in of that in creating fish missed. Mr. all, I guess the goal is always to help our clients solve their problems and to enable Bryan cave as law firm to give to give our lawyers the tools that enable them to be best partners for their clients business. Partners legal. You know, we will Representative etcetera in intrigue really stand out those on a BBC exponent level in Bryan cave level as as a as an entity in law firm that is tackling client prompted at that is that is understanding objectives in understands both business objectives in operation objectives. In solves those objectives in helps clients need those objectives in novel ways into is this what firms basically have to do now to differentiate themselves and actually succeed going forward. I I think that's too broad in a statement. I think that law firms do need to differentiate I think that someone firms differentiate based on other things, right? So it's not a one-size-fits-all in terms of angry virtue date. But I certainly think that as clients are as its focus on. Operational Jack gives that it it doesn't and certainly doesn't hurt to to have the ability to partner with clients to to me doesn't check this. I'm just curious what innovations do you think law firms could adopt or even be forced to adopt. I'll be complete game changes for them. And I'm not just talking comics it could be structural as well. For example. What if the ABA loud, non lawyer ownership of offerings could that be a game changer for them? Now. That's that's hard hard. Why? Because the answer is. Yes. Of course, you know, opening ownership a lot to non-owners could or non wears a night as struggle with that term but much use that term, but not obviously could change. Let's get tremendously. I in the US. We obviously have impediments to that. I think I truly think there must be a way to change. Our law firm structure that enables us to continue to have the relationships with clients that are so important on the personal level. But also when I'm trying to think about the best things that I can do for Bryant 'have. I often think about in in terms of Halloween. Make this firm feels smaller both alert layers AmEx. Ryan's and how do you engage in technology that Maples mean to talk seamlessly with my colleague in Japan as Sheba's down the hall, and you know, how do you really facilitate collaboration? I think I personally think that there's a lot of opportunities for technology to change the way that we are interacting with our colleagues in. So that we are essentially to minimize duplication of effort. When example that I always give as just sort of the simple example. But imagine if you are in researching the elements of fraud for motion for summary judgment. And you haven't received a push notification letting you know that your friend in Kansas City was was researching similar such terms around the same time. So that you can call your friend in Kansas City. Invest discussion pieces in top for me issues of those pieces in their similarities than commonalities that kind of thing. I think has to be of serving the next generation of practice of laws just sneaking things easier structure, a I haven't tackled I don't know the answer to that. But I just know that there has to be there has to be different kind of stuff. Sure that we can that we can implement that recognizes changing demographics in changing requirements of the various generations changing requirements of clients and just continues to make agile as always curious about that because in the medical contacts, you know, doctors have the same limitations on ownership as an astute law firms and some experience with Sawai that the legal model in all the medical model at setting up like a separate management services organization. And then if for example, venture capital investors, wanted to come in invest, they would do through that arm. I was just curious why that never took off in the legal arena this prohibited in the US in the, you know, in the UK, it's it's it's actually a growing model, but we cannot do the US. So Katie just though wrapping up here if you could give one big takeaway piece of advice to a general counsel in house counsel, who's working in a massive in house legal department. What would you tell them? In terms of just how how they run their legal department. But I would tell them is sometimes challenges that seem insurmountable because of the size of the organization or perhaps the I don't wanna say dysfunction, but the complexity of the inner operations of the various business units. And in the long parliament is sometimes those challenges are whole lot easier to tackle than you might think and it in someone to help you think through that flow and think through issues is I think, you know, that that has changed the life of of many law departments, which is just thinking outside that box in recognizing that that it doesn't have to be a million dollars. We to change how how things flow in how how your operating we just need to mislead to start talking to people. That's good advice. Katie thanks so much for being on the show today. Thanks, katie. Thanks for listening. If you like to show, please subscribe through I tunes. Itunes podcasts. Please tell your friends and give us a five star review. If you want to get in touch with us, please visit us at feature meets law dot com. Our theme is is the gold lining by broke for free. Please visit Brooke for free dot com. You've been listening to feature meets lot from Brian gave.
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Episode 83 : Historical Pink Ball Test
"Hub hopper originals. Hello and welcome to eighth cricket show. My name is Hamid. I'm here with the very latest episode of this podcast today. I'm joined in the studio by Sahel shake. Welcome to the still saw him happy to be so today we will be discussing about. I ever India's pink ball all test match which is denied as much to talk about and lots of things happened in that going into these tests. May there were lots of discussions as to how the ball would behave. It's a new ball mind. You and India is using a ball altogether by a different which is a new company will looping ball well from SJ company has been used to Lau in the international cricket and this was the first time so a different ball. some surprises in these store of we were expecting so what happened across the match. Let's get to it straightaway. Start with the doors so Bangladesh one these doors and surprisingly zing the decided to bat first of e heard commentators saying they should have a bowl I and as for me to they should have both first. Let's So what do you think style thing that they should have a bold I as well seed was a new territory for both the teams. And if you had seen the house I think you also told boarded he would have liked to bed for us as well if you If he had won the toss so they weren't they were both captains. All teams were in dock as to what repeat participating disappear in the media. So if you consider the last match which happened in indoor specially so we saw were there. How Alicia batted first and were demolished? Do you. I think that you'll have played into the decision of Momento. Huck see the EDO WJM You you when you when you saw. India came onto bear on the same on the same page. India played really well Does their difference between the two teams which is right now in basis are flying high and dry wherever they go so I don't I don't think the peach played any much part or even the Ping ballplayer and much part in this in the militia Bangladesh. Or even the toss player much part in the demolition eligible nowadays innings. I think just a betterment of the Indian ballers the worst betting from Mali's obscene longtime will. Yeah that is true but then and of course if India with a better I than Bangaladesh's now after batting first and getting out of all out on the first date cells and they know now that they had a limited school to defend But that could have played opposite way in the sense like they could have had a building in a more attacking me nevertheless Bangladesh decided to bat first and they are a up their inexperience in batting shored Short the terrifically are terribly The openers itself Shatman Islam Islam- who showed some promise given the fact that he was the youngster in that between Emerald case and him shot money slams shoot maturity while the the rest of the players didn't show much there. Were a lot of a bouncers that Indian dulas booed especially to lytton US US and al-Amin not allow mean. I think it was a bother to seen was This one learned and US and name has an right all right so these two are bullard released. Two batsmen were hit on the helmet and windows. Were was retired hurt right away. This happened after the second session of India of Bangladesh and he did not come out for the third session rate. Second concession okay. This was how this happened in the first session and he did not come out in the second session which was a big blow for ballot? Because Lytton does was the only player who looked to hit hit the ball with the bat the rest were just flying out there and everything was going he buys for them Along with that name hasn't to Scored nineteen who was the third highest quarter in these entire abundance playing eleven indian-bangladesh managed to get one hundred and six runs It was bullying of India. which was the start of day enrich Ishani? Sharma captured the five o'clock hall. He's slowly second in five wicket haul in ninety s matches in India of course are outside India he has taken already taken eight five holes who Miss Shadow and Mama chummy me Sir supported Michelin Shurmur by taking plea and wickets respectively. Noah's for spinners apart from that one over the winter job all religion Russian did not have to come to bowl and has India bundle Bangladesh out in just Tokyo was so couple of things to talk about your Cy. He'll First of all about these this new these new rules about concussion substitution. So we heard a lot about this on air A- At least I heard I do that. You heard about this or do but the complain was that name. Hasn sure have had if he had. If he was hit on the helmet he should have had left the field. That didn't like the way it was implemented for. The advertisement is for the For Stephen Smith the most famous one. What do you feel about? This is the system being taken advantage of by Bala dish. She wants You know the competition and the patient with the players yes which play which deeply Right now at least for now in the test matches and whenever ball hits whenever a person who is trying to make a point and a ball hits him on his hair Daryl Darrelle adrenaline kicks in for sure and the player does not want to go out that easily. He won if the Vizier Kelsey Modem. By tells him to go. But then the generals come in place There's the reason why this rule has been Played in so they're the one the captain or the physio encourages or forces the to go off so there and they don't have to lose much because They have options to pull the player and he won. Best man understands and goes off about what happened. Here is I think it was in competency of the physio. Who Toll Booth the best? Men's you when you want to if you have seen the Lytton what happened. He He. He got hurt He came he played for another was then He. He started feeling dizziness. So I think it was incompetent news of the PHYSIO. Who was was in the dressing room off Bangaldesh at Bordeaux Kitchens where he failed to Recognized that basements were not knowing any position to compete data and distill put on the there were still forced to put on a show for the what what what what was for me. Most making angry denoting was over which I disagreed with was the replacements which were put on with delays on with especially wiser special with especially with the name Hudson because US first of all he's a pacer began with secondly He's been he. He was replaced with Julius Lump. Who is as being a and who can bet as well as two and the other thing was the Lytton does Who is a keeper Not People say that the isis say that the the the replacements would be like to like you had to keep In your work your substitutes. which will you keep her? WHO's that I've forgotten the name Some Shannon was the head Akiko. Mazda Husson yeah the hurricane public on who can keep the not a timetable but that the head about time Kibo then dearest still the put Media Zamira Mattias Mirage into it but he can well obviously cannot ball but still he he can bet well. He's a basement he's doing so I think there's some kind of advantage was Did it tried to take the In which should not have been allowed and this rule should be made some core of strict Possibility should be there because as soon golf Scottsdale when a strong team strong bowling team like India will uh-huh play against a team like melodic of Ghanistan or Zimbabwe. This is bound to happen. There will be concussions. For sure in the door fulfillment and you can put such kind of advantage to the opposition. Because they just get hit in the face and this goes on the pitches of India when you go to England and in Australia with roving batting line-up such as Bangladesh that issue today this will be much more prevalent right. Yes of course and you just can't as soon as I was concerned. It just didn't competition competency. who play the short balls which aw surely if you've seen the medicine Malaysia? The ball all all of their spin. venus-only so they don't have any any kind of experience in blinks at balls and you can't blame the other team To bowling them or to bowl them those kind of short balls. It's and expect to have replacements. Military will now let's move on to India's first innings and let's see how debated mango good while came out. All guns displeasing and he hit three boundaries in the first of the first couple of hours but then he was Bulwell by Amin Hussain and was caught up in the cupboard. Gordon by Madison Mira's Medicine meters. Yes it was. It Co Cobra corden right so then reach continued with the judicial Pooja but unfortunately richer mkx wouldn't carry on for much and was out by by that Hussein. Remember Louis Malle was dropped furiously like A. I'm not even getting the word. I was few years with the drop of the catch. It was as easy as they come. Literature was dropped. Dropped the bullying of Bouzaid and it was dropped by allowing Hussein on and naturally was very furious but that had and that sort of betrayed his land for the rest of the match but reaching monitor the less which was out bill Burr leg-before-wicket in front of the wicket the It was a bit funny bit. The manner he got out he taught the ball would swing out but the ball did a swinging and it was He did not even attempt a shot and then it was eventually an empires call. You go out for twenty one judicial Pooja and Barack Cooley boots could respective fifties but additional. Pajama was out out Cut Out of the bullying of Abida Hussain and the catch was brilliant from shed. Money's Lomb at the end of the The the stumps Cooley and jingle honey boot are not out of without Cooley. String there at fifty nine while agenda honey on ninety. Three India are one hundred and seventy four four for the loss of three wickets and are leading by sixty eight runs with seven wickets. Now I know who side with respect to the test match your spirits. It's not that great because of the quality of the opposition but for the sake of argument. How badly do you think Bala dish will lose this match? And how long. How many days do you think will go on? It will be similar to the fastest metro. Happen will likely be bed. Entirety of tomorrow immortal Make the target for our dignity elite up to around four hundred four twenty runs and then declared the end of the income and the next day in the next day. And you you have seen obviously are already seen on the day. Where peach wasn't doing much and still they were all out one hundred and six and in the thirty or so the peach you'll be much worse Because it's gotTa Pitch Attempt to tear off and it would be much worse to play on and especially for the vestments of dish. So Yeah Reagan for sure. Do you see and can't be as naive asking you this but do you see any sort of John's John's for Bangladesh to bounce back in this or even a slight zero point zero one possibility C. C. it's a cricket obviously and while this needs to get up moral wash their Fleiss ballers as because Tomorrow fifteen hours at least four I one or one and a half there will be something for the ballers There will be peace. There will be in the sun where the peach will be. Hard for us will be hard. There will be something for the bowlers. They just have to put your stripes stripes Police stripes in debord short ball again again today. They were not on the goodland today. again the whichever the for six hours. They will terrible terrible in the feeling. So it was Dick Decorative Israeli had more wickets if they were good intriguing it at the best so if they can improve their bowling rolling you can improve their betting revealing and it and idiot at the end it will always come to the betting of this dividend. Have to score at least three hundred or four hundred runs in the second earnings which I don't see coming so they can it's Dania hand but is therefore also lost to Lytton thus was that will Lee a bright shining star of which at least to meet locally. Yeah of course when you see their scorecard the captain the former captain and a mitten though only keep keeping keeping right now went on ducks so oh and then you lose a player and us. It's always a shame and it's always reminds turnover thing and I think this also with the looks of the feeling today at at the end of the day they look like they were just playing Could get over with. It could get zero and go home and relax or I said thank you for joining in In in today's episode of course could be so this is it from today's episode. This is me Hamed signing off. Have a great cricketing day uh-huh.
#129 Lner EU seg opp til bli et nytt Europa?
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Episode IV: Jazzy Belle
"You're listening to players from the Celt hip hop number. One scripted podcast written by Nathan T redo. The more information visit players from the South Dot com that's players with Z.. Tough. Last time I'm players from the south. Hey if you can ride to the war show with me. You gotTA deadline for story plus I got some questions I still want to ask. You don't buy into the cauldron the monolithic. Question why all of a sudden the rail yards were priority. I gotta get a better understanding. How rich get richer and how black people are used to help them? Get Richard I wouldn't the migration of people families out of their community. Wait a minute, so you lost your job for that fun covering what was going on? What's up this this day I'm sorry must have the wrong number or something. Are Sorry Lady Damn. Favor and they'll give up so easy next time I say. Okay funny. Comedian. Twelve thank you keep on classroom as home safe so i. was always dead. Take special interest. Shit of his family. I take special interest in things that are special, and that's you. You're specialty Lonzo and I never met someone like you. You're young. You have staunch ambition. God away. You roam around the edges. What you gotTa God? I can tell you, mom. Right, and that's what I WANNA. Be A mom. Wanted me from. Buddies, but you know what. I mean. Never said I liked you don't. Recognize the tension Aliquo. Like me making me blessing. Cut that ask. You call me. So that's a good sign metric. What you call you fine, so wait you coming back, ats. I wanted to see you again. Hopefully soon owns. Them. What that is eight plus two way? It'll just playing. Coming back next month and saying we can of their concerts. Thanks. Okay. Goals tail for. Talk to. Give you a call tomorrow? Tonnage it'll margo back out. That made a Red Lleida. Do, you know what man? For as long as I can remember, my circle was small. My closest family and friends, my advisors a support system. I was getting to the age where there was. Something with. Circle was solid, but it complete. Until that day, it all started to come together. For, the first time, I saw. I didn't have no intentions of what could be. What couldn't be see? I just Holly Jose. meet. Everything else worked itself out. So, who was she? I remember reading I. Don't think I ever heard about a female cam. What's up with that? Okay Well. Let's take it back to Atlanta. We first got their. Way To go west side and his record store. Man That was a wild scene. Shit. I! Lay me off at the curb in front of the store, so he can go find a spot to park. You know how it is in Atlanta. Big City with nowhere where to plant. I know about that I've got some firsthand experience. And yeah man. So I was standing on the sidewalk. I looked to my left. Ben Slowly to my right. Man I just do a steel and people who was looking. All the way up there from the coast in the middle of the ghetto of another city all within three blocks, we saw dope boys trapping kids on their lights, laughing and plant girls on the track. Look on the corner beat boxing style, and it was full of energy. She. This was a landmark moment for me personally. Understood world is a ghetto whether we like it or not. Business gotta get. Get! So what happened when you walk into the store? Okay, check it. Check it man. You should have seen look on my face when I open that door. It was like a Minister Society you ever saw that. You know when when Keynes I saw walked in a room and he saw Ronnie. You know. Tom Stuart still man. She was standing behind a counter helping customer. About five three red bone pretty pretty, Hazel is. Kind of. Is that making your wallet on paper? That I mentioned Ray-ban? All right man come on. She was bad for. Her name was Dana. She was a Grad student at one of the HP, update. Check this out though she was from down here, but wasn't a school up there and working at a record store while getting a master's in finance, she was all point. Solve Sassy educated, but has some gangster final thing I call the ready red. Yeah when she came into my life, it was right on time. Money started coming fast, and then there was there to help me bring structure. I found out later west side. We'll. See Her pops is from Atlanta, but he played professional football in was so he ended up selling his family in the end after his playing days is oval. Mama was from a little town, called the church point and South Louisiana. That's off I ten. I can only judge by the smile on your face. She made the trip taking So. The fellas walked in and Jamal came in first and Dan. They're lost his mind when he saw that new now's album. That ill matic essays legendary legendary. We. We come from a lot of cats up on that, so the stores won't stock in them like that. Dump grab copies on Vinyl Cortez stayed outside the Karma. Check on him and his little uncle bull. He came in with Royal See. You already mentioned the convention and your first making acquaintances. Are there any other significant moments from Atlanta's before we moved on from this point? Yeah, yeah, man, let me tell you almost forgot. See. This was our first time on TV man. They had a show local channel in Atlanta was wanted them. Hip Hop shows. All cities had him at the time a little local. Local show with a local host show was native American rap makers, and the host was a dude name star. Man! It's the unsung people like this from city to city. Who loved the culture that much? They just had the spotlight document the game. On L. Star was that do? We talking real early nineties, he had a video show, and they were shooting a special episode because it was Jack The rapper weekend. You know that we can. We was in town. Artist was the rap name MC breed. He was shooting the video. He had a song called. I gotta get mine and was featuring to park. They were shooting a video north of the city like football players, house and west side was dead introduced on now he really liked are moving gave us our first on camera interview as down South Debord snap. How did that go was exclusive for a just feature? Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was. It was like. Yeah we come and you heard me. We down South people. We Got Royal Seat Big Boy Inc.. J. Top on the beef and boys with that. He will get that new thing interstate. From your favorite mom and pop record shop. Man This people like that who considered my heroes? Cats dedicated to the game even when there was no real money in it. That's real. Trip was a success. So I! Take it after that trip. There was a higher level of professionalism displayed by the crew, right? With prospective new clients and artists and a new will match your client. Out that road roadmap for me if you will. Although music was where I wanted to make a mark, and it was good for us at a time. It was just steppingstone. Don't confuse the culture with the industry like I told you I'm always living and breathing hip as a culture, the industry is another story. It's bullshit a facade. A facade. Well. Why do you think so many young black men risk life, limb and freedom to buy into a facade shit you did. Yeah, it was a difference though. Creative freedom is something that shouldn't be taken lightly. We could do what we wanted and say what we wanted. It was never about a record or distribution deal. This was always about putting my people on, so we bob the block and eat together. What I'm saying. Keep you a little advance money. She won't Equity I. Want My name to be so valuable I. Leverage Twenty five years later down. The road like I'm doing now. Truth is both artists. Abar was illegalized loansharking scam. Down here, we had to reverse that trend. You see what I'm saying. I think most people. Their biases cloud the fact that the south broke away from the plantation long ago. We adhere to the standards that were set in the beats and rhymes for so long, but we built our own infrastructure still stands strong. We never needed to major label system. They needed us. That's right. Yeah, we had our own indie labels and distributors and became better businessman because of. Education Yeah Hey man, don't forget about me. I gotta get my shit from the hotel. CHECK OUT! Record as low on juice. Anyway, it's cool over. If you need to stop now, we got time now good. I got some freshmen in my bag. Just a we'll keep. Cool Bro with everything was doing independence I knew down South people was on borrowed time. Jamal has started to get a lot of outside work. Especially in all the movie soundtracks that was coming out at the time. Yeah, he was killing it man. He started working with a lot of New York Castle one day. I think it was like summer ninety. Five, the biggest magazine and hip hop was hosting the worship. Jomo to backstays passing, so he asked me to make that trip with them. The coolest. We didn't have no problems with nobody. There was one thing the game respects. Number, who was pulling strong numbers by this time? I think we're close to like seven hundred thousand newness, so we was being quoted by everybody. Yeah, all the majors wanted us. Everybody knew we were. We was well represented. So. This is the infamous five social. Chit the continental by. That's a good for you. Yeah, hell! Yeah, that's it ver. And I was front and center has been a lot of talk over the years about what went on what who said what who didn't say what some back and forth. But she that was the appetizer. Andre and big BOI served a main dish. They're just won the best new artist and the mood in the spot one of appreciation. Yeah, there was a smattering of applause, but for the most part was a lot of indifference in the room. They went up there and put it down. I remember like it was yesterday. I'm tired of Joe saying. George saying we got a demo tape on one here, but it's like did got some. That's all I got. Man That's Titan talk right there. What was the climate like in the then you have to that climate he was it was like. SOC-. Quiet as a church mouse pissing. On Cotton Vernon. Talk about yeah, the same way that New York City Dj quieted the Room Jack The rapper a couple years earlier. I mean it wasn't disrespect for nobody, but it was a rallying cry for us. said by this time, the selfless jumping off ghetto boys kick down the door. Casting goody came through ball and G. Cain through bunning chant was working on the soon to be classic Ryan Dirty. Yeah relocated to the no baby and slim was moving real numbers. They cash money. There was built an empire over there. You, Suave, house, Berg big boy hypnotize minds, screw in the screwed up. Click man. I had arrived. The South was late into the party, but right on time you're. A! Man That makes sense you speak about pride in the emergence of what the south was bringing to the table did that Andrei bring feeling of resolve? Open the door for you to pursue other interests. Be Man. That's a good question for it. All ran concurrent. I guess you could say. He was in New York at the source awards. I had my beep on vibrate the whole time and didn't even bother to check. It was trying to at me when I finally did check out so I saw. Tears pays me with the nine one one, so I hit him back once we got to. The hotel was getting rid of. What happened was what was Cortez talking about man? All I know is that I couldn't call my brother down. He said Oh punk ASS, T. Roy was sitting on my Momma Porch when he pulled up. talked his usual shit and say personally wanted to served notice. He was a rookie cut by this time because big Roy. He was just errand, boy an informant. His possible. Leading get deep in the streets like that what he had to serve notice from the city they carefully spelled out imminent domain, so they wanted to take your mom's house. Yeah, like for what purpose maybe damn sidewalk to me. Some budget numbers again. T A fat check makes you. Simon Imon vein can easily get out of hand. Fed Hopper, they wanted that whole side of the street. They had a six block radius around a new stadium in each direction, they wanted to redevelop it into new shopping and housing complex complete with restaurants and all the bells and whistles. On my Momma side they wanted their land for commercial parking deck. That would serve the new settlers. Funny that you call them settlers. So how'd Cortez Hannity Roy? Finally deserves no man. He was a cop. K just go around beaten cops, can you? Don't s it. It's rhetorical man. No Man this is serious. Talk Cortez, I welcome holiday when I got back from New York. He said he had something else to talk with me about anyway, so he told me through as soon as I got back. Oh Hey man named as you here on the right you. Just give me a few minutes to get myself and checkout. tweeting about fifteen sure, do you think? A anyway. Thanks man! You know up against the deadline on this. So did you ever consider writing a book? Store is one of inspiration you know not that typical overcoming adversity rags to riches story. After while those become rather stereotypical enemy. What way? It's SORTA presented in a way that a black man can be successful in the nontraditional way as an anomaly. But I find it to be quite patronizing to continue that narrative. When in fact you can say, brilliant and determination can be essentially seized by anybody. He sounds smart man will. Okay follow. It's funny. You asked about that book though they have been asking me to write a book for years, thing is. I, don't do much I. Because Your Life. Story is exactly what it says. It's your life story, the context and there. They've got to stay true. I'm authentic straight up doom and every avenue. I stay true to that. I was raised by Jesus and because it I'm worth multi millions in game. Weapon Game. How are your early investments? Paying off? Things will go over. As much as I can say about the airport and City Hall everything. I'd be worth it. Man I started going to city council meetings with Cortez and White Zach to get a better understanding of the planning and Zoning Commission intentions with North East side of downtown. Our side of town. With me and Jamal looking after the music side of things, Cortez and Zach. They've got tickets. Thieves you know early on. They was handling street promotions for down South be bored making trips all over the Gulf coast. Meet with the MOM and pop shops and building those relationships, but now cortes selling commercial property and acquiring investment property. Zach was using relationships. He build music with US and expanding his region and technology. Every time he was around, boy was always talking about this new Internet thing, and how it could make the world smaller in terms of inflammation and socialization. He was trying to make his way to Silicon Valley Well as new information technology was happening. You can't really blame them here. I A question. We'll have an uncle. Man. was just living life for when he came back from ten remember until he got, he had to go to Tennessee for a while. Know so when he got back from Tennessee, just lay low. Because, he knew T. Roy was a new cop and he can put some shit on them just for blinking wrong. Mongo didn't have to do nothing though. He, just like sitting back and watching busy. He was the one who talk me and invested in what why Zach was selling. I had money from the rap game land by the airport and a few residential properties. Uncle told me and Jamal to take a chance and technology. Sack was always talking about this engine sort of virtual information thing. Thought he was talking about computer, engine or something like that, you know. He met some guys at a trade show who were looking for seed money for what they described as a search engine. WHOA, no way you guys got in on that. Yeah, we got in early on for Shit I bought that swampy land south of the airport, and when the State Airport Commission voted to build a new international terminal. They made me a nine million dollar offer man. Yeah, my eighteen, thousand flipped nine million. Out of that million, I'll put up four hundred and fifty thousand Jamal. Put up two hundred thousand to get that engine started. He's serious you can't start. Like. That man if I told you cocaine numbers, you would think I was lying. Young has twenty two talking about they retired. Pit Wenli amber. We was getting it getting while getting was good. And why you can't should be in there. So, this. So. This is why you said Danny came into your life at the right time exactly. Man Read used to always tell me run your business like your house on run your household like you run your business. Be Able to account for everything. Plan for the futures spent some save more. Out of what you save diversified at product, outweighs talent to start developing talent and brandon product. She was cold with it for. Been Real with me since day one and when I say that only the real would understand what I mean by that man, I just knew I was gonNA marry her. I never met somebody. Heart Lake Dead People. For me. To this day I'd give anything she wants. Plus my time she earned that. On the side of my bed when no girl ever State House and was the Games. We used to play, but now it's real. Man Outcast Ninety six straight up classic man. You, know Jessica wasn't even. Supposedly, she was finishing. This clown what? Man We got. Hang up or you know you said Yeah. Real coming of ACE, I'll for a young man trying to find that one. You know what I'm saying. Get you one and hold onto the future Mama's of our chilling. She. Don't let me talk about it. That much I'm just shut up and move on, you know. Man I got to tell you about how brilliant my brother was this shit about gate good. You got the new batteries. I'm going home and I got cool. Settle in bought the hit the highway. You I showed up. I was working on my acceptance speech man. You WanNa damn straight. Yeah. Guess ain't got new toy. We've got a high ticket. Welcome to the South Coma Candy. Paint flavor the. Essence. Hey both teams! Played from the South is created by Nathan Tedo. If. You like what you're listening to help us. Get the word out by subscribing leaving us a rating and sharing with your friends. You can find us on instagram at the players from the south. That's players with these. Plays from the South, stars Nathan t Redo as Kvant Chris, more assault, gravy, and Nicholas Renew as officer t Roy. Mixing sound is on by Chris Campbell. Find more about Chris Campbell at Chris. Campbell audio dot Com the theme. Music is eighty crawl from the album waterworld courtesy of. Thank. You thank you for listening. Electric Bill. Soda Purpose Net. That's the only thing I would be. The west of both.
"Hello. This is meet the writers of Georgina Godwin. My guest today ought to be on your literally raider. She probably is. She's been making huge waves in the world of fiction in two thousand and fifteen. Then President Barack Obama named her work fates and fury's his book of the year. She's been on the shortlist for every big US prize going was named by Granta as one of the best young American writers of her generation. She's a New York Times. Bestselling author was number one on Amazon. She has a new collection of short stories are is called Florida, which is where she lives, but undelighted that she's here in London. And with me today. Long growth. Welcome to meet the writers. Thank you on happy to be here. Now you may live in Florida, but actually from Cooperstown in New York. Where is that? Oh, in the middle of nowhere. It's a tiny little village about eighteen hundred people in a vast swath of farmland, and it's on a nine mile lake. It's very beautiful. The only reason anyone would ever know of it is because it's the baseball hall of fame is just not something, but I think that you hear care about at all. Sorry, I don't care about it. What was it like growing up if you went particular out of baseball knows terrible. So we live right on the lake in the middle of town about a block and a half away from the baseball hall of fame. So we saw all of the tourists every single one of them. And at times they camped on our yard, but it was it was actually a perfect place to grow because my parents are very busy people very in their own world, and they just let my siblings and I just do whatever we wanted to do. And so what I wanted to do was read all the time and they did a lot of sports and it was benign neglect in a really beautiful way in made my sister into professional triathlete. It made my brother into doctor. I mean me into a writer. Well, let's talk about these over achieving children. Sister is Sarah to. She's a two time Olympic Chhaya fleet as you say, your brothers Dr where your parents quite proactive or was that benign neglect away of kind of letting you find your own with their very supportive. So no matter what we said that we were passionate about. They let us do it as fully as we possibly could. I think a lot of times the family culture is created by the oldest child. My brother is one of those wagging men of the world's wants into I room and he takes all the space and he takes the oxygen. And so my sister night, it took us a very long time to understand that we actually couldn't speak public space and that actually we didn't want to be overheard by brother all the time. And I think our life decisions are somewhat predicated on the fact that we were just pushing against this overbearing male in our lives. And yet in terms of kind of label success, you and your sister would appear to pasta. I think that we just chose the things that we are. Schnitt about, and I think both of us, my sister and I would have been happy if we didn't necessarily have the success that we've had if we were allowed to just do our thing. I mean, I think she right now she stopped doing Olympic distance on and she started doing ironman. She loves it. She's almost forty. She's still just going out there and exercising all day long every day and killing it. In our family culture. Nothing's ever quite good enough. So we really have to just work on what's happening right now. So it must have been quite hot moving away from really seems to be close family of to Wisconsin to study fiction writing. Did you always know that that's what you were going to do? Oh, absolutely. But you know, it took me a long time to get the Wisconsin and I lived everywhere lived in France in England. I lived in Philadelphia. I lived in Kentucky and Canada. We were really peripatetic for a long time, and I started writing very. Seriously in college. Something happens me and I just realized that I wanted ratings to be the very center of my life and everything else is going to come around it. And at that time has actually poet and I was told by the universe that I'm not a poet a wrote every day, and I wrote three novels after college. And then I was also a bartender just decided I need to just take all the time I can get and go get my masters for two years and sit at the feet of Laurie Moore, who is my goddess at the time and just learn everything I could. So that's why when I was in my mid twenties, I went and got my MFA and then you'll first book. First published book was about discovering family secrets and going through the family tree. He rich about also the different perspective on the same relationship. How much of this was inspired you think from your own relationship dynamics? Interestingly, that's the one that has the outline of out of aggrava- without necessarily having much autobiographical or even very personal in it. It's the most invented all. All of my other books seem to stray from the realm of autobiography, but they're much closer much more personal to my own life experience. So we'll, let's let's talk about fates and fury's. Of course, this is really did you on the world stage President Obama as we know named it. His book of the year in two thousand fifteen to know that he'd even read your book must have been extraordinarily well. He was a sitting president. Reads, let alone reads fiction little fiction by women. Okay. Here's the best part of it. Its lead me. It was one of those things that you didn't even know to hope for than it happened in suddenly, men started reading me, which was great. I love women. Women have been traditionally my readers, Brock above omitted. Alright, for mend. Read me eventually at a certain point about a month after he had named it. Miss book of the year. I get this huge envelope in the mail and the return just said, the White House. Open it, and he wrote me a Hinton note that talks about why he loved the book, and I just sat there going what human being has this much kindness and courtesy and ability to reach out to other people. Nobody. I mean, nobody and it just makes the current situation right now. So Senate a really harsh relief. I mean, to have someone who cares about the life of the mine in the life of the intellect and the cultural aspects of American the and read fiction, which I find very necessary. But I think a lot of politicians definitely wouldn't and to go to this black hole of nurses them and idiocy is just it's devastating, right? There's no, right? I know who was able to take it with any kind of comb or anything less than mental distress. But I mean, it may well inspire great writing to come. Well. I mean, I preferred. Have the vulnerable among us not suffer, but if great writing comes out of it. Oh, that's all right. But it'd be better if children were wrenched from their mother's arms at the border. Right? It'd be great if people didn't die because they didn't have health insurance. I mean, I am middle class, right? I have health insurance through my husband. I had a an emergency c. section that cost me thirty thousand dollars out of my pocket. Right? And that's a book I had to write a book in order to pay off filtering my child. It's just the state of the country is just a disaster visits. Just a slow moving juggernaut crashing into the those two so bad. Well, of course, you live in Florida, blue part of Florida? Yeah. Tell me about that. Well, so Gainesville is in this once it's not even on the ocean, which means that he's even less elegant than other parts of Florida. But it is a university tone and the university does overwhelm the. Town. So it's we have a lot of great thinkers and we have, I think Oliver taxi drivers have multiple PHD's. So it's a highly educated place. And in some ways, it's very protected place for people who are progressive. Then you go about two miles outside of the town, and you start to see Trump signs. You see, confederate flags people openly being proud of white nationalism. You know, it's, it's this weird schizophrenic existence. How did you end up? My husband is from there. His family has been there for four generations. They had a bookstore that you know, they're all very great in progressive. He took over family business, and the thing about family businesses is if you take one over, you can never get out talk forever because of family dynamics and the fact that you don't want to disappoint anyone oleo stories in your new collection. It's cooled. Florida are obviously. About Florida, but you've talked about how you try to resist writing about the place. Yeah. So I came to Florida with a great deal of baggage and stereotypes that I thought that Florida was right because the only thing I really knew about it before I lived there was Disney World which is a very different realm of existence. And my parents live in a gated community. It's very segregated, might town is actually, even though it's regressive. It's still the fourth most segregated city in America, and my parents not do not know any people of color period. It's not because they're not progressive. They are. People don't live in the same neighborhoods and the schools are very segregated. So I moved down there, feeling disdain for the state. Florida is the punch line of every other states jokes really had a lot of contempt for it. And so I did resist writing about it because I didn't necessarily want to write about something. I didn't like I wanted to write about a place that I love like Cooperstown and if you have written his tongue. Yes, yeah. But that said, I actually think that the writing from a place of Ilya nation is really rich, and it's a an ambivalent is really profoundly interesting by in business. I don't mean you know wish I mean really powerful motions opposite directions. So I love Florida, hate Florida. At the same time, it's all mixed up together. It's really inextricable is rushing a place that you was still getting used to you when you when you were writing this book way of taming new reality. Oh, interesting. Probably shy away from taking about writing as anything other than art, but it in certain senses. It could be a third. And I think it's possible that I was working through my ideas about this place that I found myself in which happen to be. On I, I can't get out unless I divorced my husband and that's not happening. So I'm trapped there. And so I guess possibly like the monkey drawing the bars of the cage just trying to understand the scope and shape of the world in which I found myself because it's quite angry suddenly start. So for young, this woman kind of Woking out anger and I want to, again, motherhood big, big semen here, how to buy graphical this is well, I'd say it's not not by graphical. The reason writers choose to call their books, whatever they call them for reasons, and it's fiction because I do make up a great deal. It's as truthful as I can make it, but it's also invented at the same time. So there are aspects of it that I play with with my first book. For instance, there was a hysterical pregnancy and I went on book tour. Vastly pregnant actually came to England, and I was thirty five. Pregnant, I should not have been allowed on the plane, but I was and in the course of the book to our people would stand up in say, so are you sure you're pregnant. I realized that the biographical fallacy, you know, the completion of writer with her characters is inevitable, particularly if you're woman particular Lee at the time, I was young woman, so I thought I'm not going to school people out of this assumptions. Maybe I can play with it. And since then I've been playing with seating in things to tempt the reader's assumption of biography and then to spin it out again and sort of play around with that closeness and that feeling of closeness to what people perceive to be the truth. If one wants to categorize it then could you call it oughta fiction? Well, you could a few of the stories on a fiction esque. Yeah, I have mixed feelings. Everything that I feel is mixed mixed feelings about una fiction, right? Because people talk as though it's a new thing, but it's as old as writing in some ways. One could argue that Senate Guston was writing fiction, and it's. Very much a mid twentieth century mode that people are now writing through and some people are doing it absolutely brilliantly. I'm thinking I'm Rachel cuss because just she's changed the form, right? Ben learners really good at it. I'm Kohl's one book is good, right? It's very good. But at the same time I'm wary of writing within a certain Gina or mode because I'm afraid of the the bars of the cage coming up again. And that's a caged putting it in its landscape foam, giving its place in the world. Another phrase or in other words that we hearing a lot around, which is psycho geography. Oh, right. Because of the situation it's and Debord. Well, I was deeply invested in aboard for a long time, and in fact, there's a short story here. The last story called EPA and it's based on something that did not happen. I did actually take my children to France and a research, the early life of him of us on because I've been. Working on this project for over ten years at that point. And it had started as a translation project. I was translating some of his more feminist short stories into English, and then I realized all the feminist stories died after he'd been writing only for about two years as his tertiary syphilis took place and changed his brain and made him a rabid misogynist. And then I thought, oh, this is interesting. So I wrote a whole novel historical fiction novel on key to move us out, and that was bad, throw it out. And then a few years later I wrote a book in which get him on was the central figure, but he wasn't actually seen it was just in the voices of people like Flaubert and the gone cool, and there was a lot of get aboard in there a lot of situations. And I was thinking through this idea of getting them up without him in the texts, and I finished it in December twenty sixteen right after the imposition of voldemort into the White House. I looked at. This book and it was so ingrown it was like toenail, right? It was only talking about literature and it wasn't engaging in a political way in any interesting way. And I just thought this is not the time or the place for this time in the place for this was ten years ago. And so I throw that out and I wrote the novella that and this book instead about how to raise good men. I don't know how to they want to does writing have to be political. I think when I was a baby writer, I read a billion interviews of older usually way. Men writers who said, you know, writing cannot be political. We actually have to be above the fray, but the truth is that's a position of profound privilege because everything that you do in terms of communication is political, choosing not to speak is political. So if this is the case, then literary writer who pretends that she is above politics is. Making the choice of very bad political choice to be honest. So I do think that you're working inherently political, whether or not you want to make it into a sledgehammer or into a scalpel is up to you. And I prefer not to make it into sledgehammer. I did a great deal research on my second novel into limit goals of utopian tax narratives Bellamy, William Morris. I mean, the whole list of utopias that kind of rating is not effective today. I'd actually think it's anti effective, but I do think that a lot of poets work in a very elliptical political way that more profoundly acts upon a writer. And that's the kind of political writing that I would like to do. Maybe not direct, maybe not plumbing, but I definitely think that we need to be addressing what's happening today. Now here you talk about raising good men and motherhood is a huge theme in Florida. I am saying you and your husband formed the contracts before you. Embarked on parenthood. So tell me about that. The thing that I noticed before I had my children is that a lot of relationships Harish because of built up resentment, particularly in the forms of expectations about who's going to do what's right if it's not clearly delineated or set out a lot of things fall on the, the mother, the woman because of societal expectations. And that kills me. So way back then I made him actually sign a contract. First of all, I gave away my freedom. I live in Florida. Basically anything that I put on the contract, he would have been fine with. But from the beginning, we've had really clear differentiation enrolls. And in fact, I would say that he would. He would also agree that he's the sixty percent parent. He's the one who's always around while I flew off to London, and he's the one who wakes up with the children who feeds them breakfast, who gets them into close and get some to school so that I don't have to see a human face or hear any human voices in the morning when I work. And so you know, it seems very harsh in very unromantic, but it's much better our relationships much better because we both know what to expect, and there's not a lot of built up resentment. And if there is, we just pull out the contract again and I point and say, you agreed to this and it's a living document. It changes as we change. And as we grow told me about maternal feeding or indeed unto me. Tunnel feeling. It's complex. Obviously, my children are the best people in my life, but I don't define myself primarily as a mother, and I work very hard to try to keep that out of a lot of the conversations that I have because it has nothing really to do with my work, except for the fact that once in a while, they're small children in the work, I have a good deal of anger about the way that women are pinched into shape by our society. And I feel always positional I'm constantly you're tainted by mommy culture, for instance, and by this is some that women are better because we self sacrificing and I refuse sacrifice myself. But at the same time, find profound joy in my children and watching them grow. Been a source of beauty and creative insights, and they're not there for me. I'm there for them, but that's a totally separate space from my work. I'm just claiming the things that male writers take for granted and it's care that you're also trying to that. You've really engaged with making a better world for you children and others to grow into. I mean, climate change, you write a lot about wild weather to, yes, yeah, yeah. Well, Florida's so vulnerable to climate change and we see affects on a daily basis. I don't know if you're where, but we have a red tide. The bacteria are doing a massive fish kill in manatee, kill and dolphins. Everything's dying on the Gulf side of Florida right now. And it's because the waters of the Gulf are many degrees higher. The main generally are which in the nitrogen runoff has gone into the the ocean is just just one aspect of which Florida. Is just being pounded by climate change. I mean, Miami is going to be underwater in ten years. And if that happens, our offer get celebrated. People cannot live in Florida. It's tremendously scary because I'm aware of what's happening. Sometimes I get upset about the stories that we choose to tell that are solid, cystic or narcissistic. We're talking only about humanity as though we're not also animals made as there were not also part of the larger world in the larger net and my political will goes toward the ideas of climate change thing, particularly in this book, but also in the way that we treat other people and how we treat vulnerable people, and they're going to be far more vulnerable people in the world of climate change than we can even imagine this book Florida took nine is at least. Yeah. Yeah. So are you working on the Knicks oh, you know, I'm always working on something. A lot of times I write a draft of a novel and then throw it out because it's not good enough and in between finishing tweets and fury's, and now I've thrown out probably two full novels, but you know, I don't believe anything is lost. I don't finish Cise the sentence. What I really love her, the ideas and the people in the in the way that there's an interaction with the world. And so I know that those good elements living elements are going to come back into my work at some point. But the form that I chose was just dead on arrival. That's really depressing way to end this. Another thing ever loved and it's all about what's happening at the moment. Right? It's all about the the writing that's happening now and I am writing something I'm really excited about, but we'll see if it works out. It doesn't matter if it doesn't, but we'll see Lauren growth. Thank you so much the coming on suit. To me, it was such a pleasure Florida's out now it's published by Heinemann. You've been listening to meet the writers. Thanks the production team of judgment on Anna Civita and Christie Evans, and you can download this show on previous episodes from our website up from soundcloud mix cloud or chains. I'm Georgina Godwin funky Venice.
Forgotten Lives, Part 1 -007
"<music> welcome to mysteries ms this and more. I'm your narrator joyce keller walsh. My intention is to use this podcast to tell a story each month. Sometimes fiction sometimes not that i. I hope you'll find interesting. Engaging and provocative forgotten lives part one. I'm going to read an obituary to you but please please don't be put off by that. You'll soon understand why i'm beginning with this. The obituary is for carl frucht f. r. are you c. H. t. and it reads born september fifth nine hundred eleven died march eighth nineteen ninety-one at age seventy nine buried in the doubling cemetery vienna austria and that is all i was able to find until i began my my research. I'll tell the story of carl fructose in this episode and that of his wife lucy in the next i first encountered carl and his wife lucy in boston boston at a conference in the late nineteen seventies that my husband john organized for the world's save of texan of animals. It's w. s. p. a. whisper at that time. Carl was whispers european director a few years later. I met carl and lucy for a second time in switzerland at the zurich apartment -partment that summer i had accompanied john to whisper conference in geneva after which we were travelling north by train to schaafhausen the the reason for this is the tale of a future podcast and we stopped off in zurich on the way by then carl had retired from whisper and didn't attend the conference he was at at that time in his early seventies wiry and about my height as far as i can remember he had thinning gray hair and abroad forehead sloping down to a narrow chin which emphasized his somewhat darkened is although his expression seemed somber when at rest his eyes lit up when he left he had a wicked sense of humor and seemed to find many things and people laughable in our new reverend sort of way the hearsay was that he escaped the nazis. What's his during hitler's regime. Someone mentioned that carl had rescued how a cost refugees by getting them over the alps but it was all rather vague and i had no reason to think were of it until i came across a letter. That lucy sent me years ago. I'd put it away at the time and only recently founded again as i was winnowing annoying out my files. It's a copy of attribute that lucy wrote about the american varian fry who died in nineteen sixty seven and was being memorial highest in washington dc in nineteen ninety-one varian fry and his associates are attributed with saving some two thousand fugitives from death breath during the third reich attempt to purge from germany and its conquered territories all anti-fascists socialists jews and ultimately all all non aryans as soon as hitler was appointed chancellor of germany in january nineteen thirty three he began putting together a list of undesirables to be apprehended pretended this first list identified prominent artists writers philosophers and political activists. These were the intellectuals whom hitler feared most within months students in berlin were burning all on german books on public bonfires prior to hitler's rise to power our call frucht ran a literary agency in vienna called austrian correspondence with his partner hurt akali in addition to her work at the agency you see the attractive copper haired polly was an author and sometime actress because she had published a book on the austrian peace crusader bertha von suttner cutner paulie was already destined to come under scrutiny by nazi sympathizers frucht and paulie refuse to publish anything pro-nazi and in fact had anti anti-nazi manuscripts in their possession when in nineteen thirty eight hitler moved to annex austria in anschluss or unification they immediately realized sized they would be targeted for arrest at the time carl was twenty seven and herta was thirty two knowing they could no longer remain in their native country a coral and hurt a fled to paris along with their friend german-born poet and satirist walter marrying forty two year old marrying was considered by joseph goebbels hitler's minister of propaganda to be a dangerous insurrectionist. His books were banned in the third reich and were among the first to be burned in france dance. The three friends carl herta paulie and walter marrying believed they be safe from the nazis however in may of nineteen forty germany invaded france france general philippe potain became chief of state the following month and he soon signed an armistice with germany giving hitler military control over the north and west of the country including paris. The new government seat moved from paris to the former resort city vichy in central france. The rest france was in the unoccupied zone for the time being the infamous article nineteen of the armistice required peyton's vichy government to imprison even those who one had escaped from hitler's regime to were enemy aliens residing in france but who were born in germany or any of the acquired countries countries such as austria czechoslovakia and belgium andorra three were on hitler's list of wanted persons this accommodation between peyton and hitler was termed and surrender on demand those detainees in french custody who transported back to germany were sent to concentration camps or tortured and summarily merrily executed as it became more and more perilous to remain in paris is a french government rounded up the so-called enemy aliens all three exiles frucht cooked paulie and marrying hurriedly left the capital. They made their way some five hundred miles south to the port city of marseille on the mediterranean coast. This was still part of the unoccupied zone and many of the displaced fugitives relocated. They're hoping the gestapo wouldn't pursue them. They were wrong and they're in marseille. They met thirty two year old varian fry. Then head of the american emergency relief committee the r._c. A private organization formed specifically specifically to assist the targeted academics and artists who were refugees from the third reich new jersey born frye who received a degree in classics from harvard university and top latin was an unconventional choice to work clandestinely in france to save refugees from the nazis but as it turned out he was the absolute right i choice there is much written about this. Epoch and varian fry a mere fraction which you'll find the show notes to this podcast. If you'd like to know more lucy says she wrote her memorial about fry on carl's behalf in nineteen ninety-one shortly before his own death in the same year. I'll quote more lucy's letter in the next episode but the part that initially engaged me was the following quote karl zone as carly was working with various the american rescue committee while i was working with jewish organizations based in lisbon we sent each other clients people with specific needs carl was preparing various routes <unk> over the pyrenees. This is for the fugitives from hitler and acted as guide over those mountains for many of the lucky ones to escape through our joint efforts. We made a deal with a swiss sanitarium to receive passports of dead patients. Carl's job was to alter them for the many chapter marseille in the process he created husbands husbands and wives not knowing each other mothers and daughters fathers and sons brother and sister. The knee made these dangerous trips on foot with his newly created families and quote the departure point for the hike over the pyrenees was a town of bunuel sir mir some two hundred miles to the south of marseille. Your arduous louis journey over the mountains could take anywhere from three to seven hours or sometimes overnight depending on the age and fitness of the fugitive hikers one successfully over the pyrenees however the escapee still had to get through border checkpoints and make their way across franco's spain to neutral portugal that was sometimes easy the and sometimes not depending on the border guards the proper transit papers visas and money upon reaching lisbon the fugitives could only hope to get exit and entry visas to depart europe and find a safe haven in another country many did not make it years later carl and lucy's lucy's friend deirdre fats writes quote it was not from carly nor from other refugees nor even from lucy that i learned he was one of the heroes it wasn't until shortly after carl died when she went to the holocaust museum in washington d._c. That she found out what karl had accomplished on display in the museum she found a sketch map quote in ink and crawls familiar handwriting and quote of the root over the pure knees with his instructions about how how and when to pass those who couldn't make the journey by themselves call guided to the spanish border and sometimes beyond in addition to carl there uh others who guided refugees to freedom over the pyrenees one of whom was the resolute lisa fit cole lisa fit co born elizabeth ecksteen in hungary in one thousand nine grew up in berlin and along with her husband hans became politically active in opposing fascism and thereby hitler when they fled from germany. They ultimately wound up inbound. You'll soumare but not before they spent many weeks in french. Detainment camps under horrific conditions even even when released or having escaped camps. Wherever the exiles went they were pursued by the invading german forces until i read the harrowing story a related and lisa fit coast book escape through the pyrenees i did not have a true sense of what hardships and terror the refugees went through to evade the gestapo dapo. Their pursuit of the fugitives was relentless the those on the run the times of near capture is the stuff of nightmares. It is then shocking but not altogether surprising that a number of fugitives took their own lives rather than be apprehended by the nazis lisa fit co carl and thousands of other women and men wound up in french detainment camps. Varian fry actually called him in his book concentration camps. They were not the extermination camps as germany but the conditions inside these camps were barely sustainable with little food no beds and the trains they had to dig themselves in september of nineteen thirty nine carl was arrested as an enemy alien and imprisoned in a camp mislead demane maine near lemond france at the time american journalist eric reid was in france reporting on the war for the paris herald when when he toured a french detention camp for his news report he found writers lawyers journalists university students in deplorable conditions appalled old civil rights. They had the appearance of human animals as he was about to depart the camp. Suddenly cough roofed was beside me. His is cheap withdrawn and his risks were very thin earlier in paris he had made crawls acquaintance and considered him. A friend carl's pitiful appearance so move steroid that he could hardly talk as they walked together towards the gate. Wherever i would have to leave call behind he writes. I turned away from from carl and began to cry. I was filled with shame and self loathing but i could not help it. I stood still in the mud and cried into my handkerchief. Then silently without calling attention to himself and carl several rides slipped out of his camel hair topcoat and handed it to his friend who had only a thin blanket wrapped around his shoulders. The cote kept carl warm throughout the cold winter months of his incarceration and this would not be the only time that eric's everard would help his friend that came years later. Ultimately carl was released from the camp by enlisting in the french quote unarmed military labor force after discharge. He continued his work helping refugees until it was no longer safe for him to remain in france france steps ahead of capture by the gestapo. He made his way to lisbon guiding her to paulie over the pyrenees with him. Marrying had awaiting awaiting made it out of marseille by boat to martinique when the space reserved for another refugee opened up marrying landed in new york one month later the original passenger who's placed mary took on the boat was austrian. Economist rudolph helford helford ding was due to sail for america but right before his escape he was arrested under article nineteen as for hill footings fate very and fry writes his body suspended from hook in the ceiling by his neck tire belt was found in a cell and sante prison in paris the day after vichy handed him <music> over to the germans paulie and marrying were both on varying fries priority list of those to help emigrate carl was not the swith appropriate visas both of his friends made it out of lisbon and reached america before him but call waited and lisbon for his opportunity to leave he i met lucy who had helped the refugees. He sent there but whom he'd never seen before. They formed an immediate attachment. Only a short time later however they lost each other in the scramble to evacuate lisbon while kara was finally assisted by varian fry debord portuguese freighter to the united states. Lucy secured your passage on another vessel. They sailed to different american ports without either knowing where the other head landed. I'll relate more of that. In my next podcast arriving at norfolk virginia kara was not permitted to disembark for lack of sponsorship and money in order to gain entry to the u._s. The refugees had to have a a minimum of ten dollars on their person. Carl did not once again. Eric civil rights came to his aid by providing the endorsements and according to lucy one one hundred dollars in cash as lucy relates carl quipped it while he got on the boat without money quote. I left the boat as a capitalist. <hes> would not stay in his new homeland for very long however soon after his arrival america entered the war against germany and japan carl subsequently an listed in the u._s. army as his wife to be remained in new york as lucy tells it call explained to her that cote he had to join the army after pearl harbor was bombed he didn't believe in killing but this was his war having narrowly escaped the third reich four times out of vienna then paris marseille and finally lisbon he'd finally made it to safety in america nonetheless lucy said he had to return the danger caro then forty years old and listed in the first united states army he was made a citizen on the spot and transported to camp ritchie maryland for military intelligence training he became one of the so-called ritchie boys and was assigned to one of the many prisoners of war interrogation teams it w i professor guy stern a world war two veteran writes in my book military resistance from the outside austrians in the u._s. Army me and intelligence services in world war two written german which i don't read. He says i dedicate a chapter to the remarkable. Call fruit being a refugee fuji from nazi controlled austria this sensitive idealistic and mild mannered an outspoken pacifist was rather unlikely soldier of the the u._s. Army as a so-called richie boy and member of intelligence team with the first army he interrogated hundreds of german prisoners on the western front carl's team consisted of four enlisted men and two officers including three former germans one check when swiss and himself the loan austrian <music> all spoke fluent german where anti-nazi refugees and with one exception were all jewish call arrived back in france on june seventh nineteen forty four the day after day. When the allied forces landed on the beaches of normandy his team advanced with the troops fighting their way into germany fearing capture more than death most of the team members concealed their real names addresses and photographs that might identify them to the enemy when one of the prisoners recognized carl from his student days in the university of vienna where he received an l l b in nineteen thirty five call not only had to deny it but also had to to punish the prisoner for insulting him as call rights. We were proud to tell the nazis we were jus but we never let on that. We had come from europe. The past of ours seemed so unreal so like a bad dream that we never mentioned it and never spoke to each other in our native tongues. They're interrogation of prisoners focused focused on strategic emplacements of mortars and military installations. They elicited any and all information from the p._o._w.'s in any situation call call rights. I question many prisoner in a foxhole with both of us ducking when a shell wendover when they finally crossed france and reached germany he says we would have a close run with death in the december battle of the ardenne before ever visiting the extermination camps he witnessed the results also the german retaliatory as quote belgian refugees were herded into barns and churches by the advancing vermont german unified armed forces. I mean say that again so there's you understand this herded into barns and churches and burnt alive but it was in buchenwald vault that he saw quote the crematorium with its six or furnace and the shaft down which the s._s. had dumped the bodies of the thousands and hanged on the three gallos in the courtyard he also saw the shelf of earns holding the ashes of the very last victims who were burned before the american troops arrived after the war call returned to america and married lucy. They lived in new york city where he earned earned a living as a technical writer which was increasingly frustrating to him. As deirdre bonifaz rights carly could not adjust to the mundane daily rituals tools of the comforts of middle class life after the defining drama of his time to satisfy his need for meaningful work car went to the world health organization as an information officer he was stationed accompanied by lucy in new delhi india for four years nineteen sixty seven to nine hundred seventy one there he writes he quote had the impossible task to inform eight hundred million people a quarter of the world's population about health about his time there he writes my work led me to palaces and temples to the misery of the slums to the mountain villages of the himalayas to the snow of afghanistan understand and to the smallpox infested areas of india and indonesia to burma and thailand into areas with cholera malaria and to the universities of big cities cities in the process. I'm it heads of state ministers and functionaries scholars and doctors people from all walks of life and of course writers and artists upon returning to w. h. O. headquarters in geneva he organized a conference entitled food health and scientific development in nineteen seventy-three for the twenty fifth anniversary of the w. h. O. then because he had reached age sixty he was retired from the w._h._o. But how carl then came to work in zurich for the world federation for the protection of animals wolf put w._p._a. Is unclear to me other than it was by invitation invitation at witha he produced literature about animals much of it aimed at school children when wip adjoined with the international society would take animals which then took on the name world side richmond. Al's calls role expanded to european director still based in zurich. He worked in animal protection for ten years in nineteen ninety. Two carl's autobiography was published posthumously. Perhaps it answers some of those questions unfortunately from me it's in german and there is no english translation as i said i don't we german but i understand the title roughly translates as notice of loss. It's a report of survival of 'cause friends and fellow survivors her to paulie and walter marrying they also located in new york city after being employed at metro goldwyn mayer in hollywood for a brief period paulie established a notable career in writing and published a number of books including children's children's literature. She married ernst basch who wrote under the name of e. B. ashton in nineteen fifty one she died age sixty three and nineteen seventy-three three although marrying became a naturalized us citizen he returned to germany in nineteen fifty-three after the war several years later he moved to zurich zurich where he died in nineteen eighty one at age eighty five. I wonder what might have happened to calls parents with a left behind in austria when he escaped carl's mother had died when his sister was born and at some point his father left with two year old carl and an infant daughter remarried apparently carl's father and stepmother left vienna around the same time he did as did his sister hedda frucht cornfeld by then a medical dr she left austria with her husband and her own son and also fled to france the carl's father and stepmother went to czechoslovakia recalls recalls father was born however as the anti jewish movement grew also in that country they decided they could not stay there either encountering many obstacles goals along the way and with carl's father and deteriorating health they went on to kiev in the ukraine but not long after arrival carl's father died of fever fever in the kiev hospital carl according to his secretary kept intellectually alive for all the latter years of his life he was busy writing his memoirs moore's giving interviews to newspapers and the radio and organizing posthumous exhibition for the austrian national library on his dear friend her to paulie in in my possession is a symposium program also in german from the patheticness institute in the ministry of environmental affairs in vienna in september nineteen ninety for one of the presentations by dr ingrid shraga l- entitled is there life before death from denatured during the living world to anti anti causality at hand. I have absolutely no idea what that means but apparently carl did because he was the moderator also closed with the program program is a photograph from the symposium in it are three people standing in what seems to be the lobby of the lecture room the presenters the middle a young attractive woman in a red and blue stripe blouse under a blue jacket with very blonde hair down to her shoulders. She is flanked on her right by a tall younger man a veterinarian meirion from brazil in jeans with pale blue shirt open at the top showing his white t shirt underneath carl is on her left looking younger than his age of seventy-nine and he's wearing a white shirt dark blue jacket and tie and is also taller than her all three smiling broadly but while the young man dan and the young woman look directly at the camera carl is standing slightly sideways with his left hand on his hip he is looking down and smiling not into the camera but deliciously at her which seems to answer decidedly in the affirmative the critical question is there life before death not long after that program however in the following march carl died of a heart attack in a vienna hospital he had lived life to the fullest after after nearly losing it to hitler's extermination policies is buried in the doubling cemetery vienna austria the same cemetery in which friend partner and fellow fellow survivor hurter paulie is buried having told you as much as i've been able to learn about karl fruit you will see a woefully inadequate. His obituary was it is difficult and i admit unfair to try to summarize the life in the space of a podcast not only forgotten life but a remarkable one yet it needs doing if only because so few people know the scope of karl marx career his colleagues were unaware of his experiences before during and after world war to evidently carlton tell them did he feel they wouldn't be interested or was it too much to possibly speak about and let the past be the past. I wish i'd known him better. Perhaps someone will translate curls autobiography and perhaps someone hearing this podcast will know more about karl than i do you and be able to fill in the gaps. I'd like to give special thanks to women to cook president of world animal net and author pat perry both both of whom assisted me with translation from german to english also i am appreciative the assistance of staff at brandeis university's archives and special collections department of the goldfarb library and staff at yale university's fortune of video archive for holocaust testimonies my my gratitude also to pierce avaj documentary filmmaker and president of the very infra institute for his encouragement. Thank you for listening. I hope you'll oh come back for the next podcast about lucy freaked. It's quite different from carl's. If you like his podcast please download and subscribe. It's free and you'll find it on your favorite directory such as apple google stitcher tuning in more to learn more about me and my books go to joyce walsh dot com <music>.
Parenting In Uncertain Times - Real Conversations With Dr Roma Kumar
"It is time to look deep within and get in touch with our emotions. Shame pride fear sadness grief and the love pain anger. It is time to have the real conversations. Join the tribe to move from a life of pessimism to a life of optimism. Welcome everybody to this week's episode. We really appreciate you joining us. Here is your host. Hello and welcome everyone to the real podcast today. We would be talking about the parenting challenges in these uncertain times and to talk about it we have with us. Well known child psychologist. Dr Romo Commod. Welcome to the show Tacoma. Why don't you start by introducing yourself to our listeners? I'm Dr Michael Myers psychologist by profession and I've been in this field over thirty years now. I work in two Major Hospital. New Delhi and Google and also run my own knock in it by the name of suction which gave does do is mental health needs off of children adolescents and adults and. I do a lot of density date you up also interesting. That's pretty loaded provide given the uncertain heated and the feel that is weighing around these days and mental. Because of the log down because people aren't able to move out I think almost everyone liked where they would have never experienced a pandemic right. I think the Australian it happened in nineteen eighteen eight lauren. Veers back so that you learn. Unfortunately you're also going to along with their parents. Suddenly the scuba shot dead promoted to the next class without exams. They cannot blow lay off even read their friends. In fact didn't explain this to the children must be getting this lizard twelve by now. I think the same way that Address explaining to themselves bans need to take this opportunity to explain every bridge to their child and even a small child can understand. But you don't have to go to bigger details for a small child but it's important to tell the child because we're telling the children to wash their hands to keep themselves clean and not do not keep social distance so children on understanding We're all in this together and each one of us Has to take the responsibility balance. I if they understand it better than the children and they are feeling at peace with themselves. I think they'll be able to build a child and understand. You can use pictures to explain to them then. Enduring this love Laura. These small little cartoon things have come in wearing your being able to explain to the child how to wash your hands on how to keep social distance. And what's the importance and Data and also not going to office and soy. You're not going to school but we have so. Many schools were doing online classes so parents sitting with them and world over there doing that. So there is some connect with the parent the child and the situation. Yeah and the kids are smarter these days but you know what given my condition. Which is doolittle late thirties or early forties is sometimes accused of making children. Gordon Guac Vico because we are just too careful about everything as it comes to parenting and rest a lot of time figuring out which brands to buy for our children to invest. Maybe more diamond passing on the values or helping them become mentally tough Maybe it's peer pressure because MOMS meeting other MOMS and illman Nestle Gardening Day There is a certain level of via Bush on painting as to what's your take on a public UC the doubting see. I would go back to the time when I was being raised by my parents. And I think you would also back to that time and we came as a pretty good individuals and we are able to endure a lot of adverse situations. And we have the emotional resilience. So going back to those practices I think op Addi- Made enough time to be with us to talk to us about daily life situations and what is missing. Is that via sanitizing that environment too much. We're helping them in. Every which way every bad and destroying to run the race. We're expecting her child to be the perfect. I forgetting that there is no perfect child. No perfect that. There's no one which is perfect so I'm wanting to you know copy and compare and think that my child will also do this and my child get a hundred and twenty over one hundred. The marks Count More. So what forgotten is that? We ARE NOT ALLOWING CHILDREN. Fame or leave the failed and they understand that what means what is meant by failure will be able to learn what to do next so we are actually keeping them very very safe very secure and if a situation arises which is a tough situation children are unable to see how come out of that so that emotional resilience is not what we are helping them go to or we don't even talk about That I think that giving smartphones earners is to be blamed for this guy you just look around renting will by Don does under Straw at dinner table that even while making them sleep and they're having special abstract turned Sleep so completely ignoring might impact their minds. Saudi you see the back of smart Muslim children. Smartphones that actually creating a whole lot of problems the face to face conversations have gone away because of that that the life conversations have gone away because of that you know what happens that the forgotten in the older times parents used to sing those lullabies for children to sleep forgotten that so we are waiting that some external source does some magic or some Biblical and my child goes off to sleep. My child is very happy with the screen because the child is also seen the adults all the time on the screen. Do we keep ourselves of eight from the screen sometime or have you forgotten that. And if I'm going to keep this clean as a stimulus to the child. The child is obviously going to only look at the screen most often than not. And that's a pleasure because the movement on the screen is very fast and it's a visual and auditory stimulus which is keeping the giant engaged and the giant forgets. What is happening around in his environment. So we need to engage with the child in many activities and keep that screen time away and also create some limit setting for the child even if the screen has to be there. But I don't see any reason why the screen has to be there for infants. Why I've decided to have a baby. I must be able to spend more via lifetime face to face time and enjoy the child. I remember going to my sons and taking my grandchild for walk in the park. I mean it's just so enjoying it so enjoyable before climbing to spend that time with our children were looking at ninety s to take care of the child more often than the Barents looking after the you know feeding the child the MOMS the newer moms are although they may be very phonetic about certain things to be Fed. And what not? We Fed and almost like getting very compulsive on it but we expect the mandate of the train. Why I just sit and spend some time with the child and just enjoy the food along with the child the child we abe everything that you're doing so if you are not enjoying a particular food your child willow tomorrow enjoy so sex pending an engaging time with each other is more important if earth for big this You know from your and talk about the habit of parents handing over their mobile to the I do think that it has come down. It must have come down during the lockdown analytical. They do not have an excuse of being busy outside our Would you believe that? There is such a habitable not change easily so as we continue our maybe it would have gone up up. Well I beg to differ on that. I see that July spending more time on the screen now and on the smartphone. Because they're not going to play all the some them used to place at what they're doing is On their on their screens they are engaged more often than not on that screen instead of playing games with each other. How many of us spend inside actually playing with our children engaging them and household chores Getting them to fix a meal with us. You know dancing teaching them more and more life skills or reading with them so there are so many other things that can be done but parents are draw. Very few of them are actually doing that. Not all of them. And they're still on the screen more often than not being consorting pending for a very long time and being and being a thought leader in Allah. Gee of what difference and equities you used to receive. Let's say twenty twenty five years back a better. The once you get from the patients now the biggest worry the parent is talking about or the concern is my child does not be my day will come up with labels on the child. My child has got this problem. My child as God destroy them. They were lead up the Google and common. Tell me okay. This is the diagnosis of my child. So that's the biggest difference and also I am expecting my child to get a hundred. Why the hell would I take much wanting to get one hundred? Why how why not think of the child actually putting in the effort is wanting to study and He's doing very good in some other areas and not necessarily. The child is very good in academic. So let me see which other area my child is good in so those are the areas which are coming up the big problem. The second area is of course these cleaner dictionary. Just come up in a very very big way. The screen and the digital addiction of which was not there earlier and Tartus exploring and experimenting with a lot of substances. That are there you know and people have started talking about it The four days the child engaging in a lot of actor would be which is related to You know sexual desires. These are big concerns for balance and Laura. Far parents are not a comfortable talking about these things with the children in who they expect that the teacher should be doing. That of the school needs to be doing that but they forget that the child is worn often. Add more hours in the House. And it's my bonds ability also do raise my child and give him the value system and Certain things have to explain to the chain to what is. Oh blimey driver behind us. These all these behaviors. I mean If there is one common thread between all of this what what you see where the pain into seven gone wrongly. You see that you know this is what was done. Then they would have been decreasing all of these organization to a couple of them. I think excessive access to all kinds of stimuli for the child of the child is exposed to a lot of stimulus. The child is exposed to the screen. Which is giving me a lot of exposure to various sites which should not be seen by the child at an early age The exposure is the one which is creating problems a lot of partying which my parents are into and my child is seeing that happening With regard to even go off with each other we could do with each other. We could do meditation with each Bertha minority parents doing that. Maybe they're doing it now because of the lockdown and that's a newfound happiness or the newfound reality which is there but the parents are not spending that kind of time with the child. All the MOMS would say that all my time goes away and picking up my child from one class to the class to the other class. But that's only dropping in big Sur child. Amine is Julius to the child is a child really happy doing it on the John. Lewis getting sometime for himself or herself. I think we need to look into those areas and not run. That Radley's do also sack that you know. Many young teenagers are sutter reporting depression which is unheard of If you go back How do you blame for this so we? We don't think children can be anxious. I'm giving the World Watch. I'll how can my child? But he or she is a human being and is also having exposure to a lot of things and that can lead to in buildings citing the child. The child doesn't have answers to that anxious situation so we need to address doors areas. Why our children getting depressed? We'd leave them thinking that doesn't matter to them. You know. It's just a small thing. Why are you bothered? We have to give them food. We give them skills and we should not hesitate in. Wingham taking some assistance from a mental health You know we we actually hesitate going to go mental health person to get some assistance when a child is having some symptoms of varying sadness or loneliness or feeling of isolation in fact doubles by next Bush. Indorama that you know what I think. Lawlessness will actually benefit a lot if you can share some tips on the early signs of depression in children and you're going to do about all of these early symptoms. Yeah so before. I even talk of the early symptoms of depression. I'm going to see some authored behavioral which the parents can see very easily. You know poor sleep patterns arte you know not sleeping in the dime that he sa- he or she supposed to sleep or maybe the biological our is affected. The child is awake during the night most nights and his sleeping in the day That's already began. Yeah the second is Trying to keep away from the family trying to be all the time in the room Not Wanting to engage in conversations not wanting to have meals with their abandoned our cards regulation in academics Fourth is lost a friend. You know that means loss is is a very big loss for the child may be. The friend has changed the group of maybe the friend has gone away from each section gooby section a disc the loss of a company that can also lead to Anxious behaviors The child is worrying about simple things. Like garb you know. There's an artwork which has happened in someplace what of the earth great just comes in and his excessively worrying about that or the child. There is some Sibling rivalry which is there that the child is feeling that my brother my sister's getting more defection from my bed and then does the child gets very agitated. An angry and sometimes anger is also one area where the showing excessive regulation excessive violent behavior and the child may be actually into depression. It's not just. Depression does not only mean sadness but any altered behavior that you see for a period of time or the experimenting with the Maybe some digital staff. Annie's gaming on the screen quite a bit or excessive Getting do certain sites pornography usage and there are many forms where you see altered behavior in children and it's pretty common these days so parents need to be keeping a little bit of a Hawk's eye on the child but I wouldn't say that you should be the cop for the child all the time. Yeah so it in the danger of logged on parents to have an off time and they are spending a lot of time. What would be your suggestion? Let's say after somebody who listens to this sarcomas and figures that it is an altered behavior out has a certain doubt obviously Yemen. It's difficult for people to actually go out and reach out to a mental health professional. Laura or go to the hospital. Maybe maybe that is not required at all but then if that is somebody who's Martin altered behavior as you say what would be the first few stat that deposed Gandak given given this particular position lockdowns I would say that. You know quite flexible and adaptable. The first thing I would suggest is stop accusing the child. Stop attacking the stop being critical and nagging and complaining instead. Go and sit with the trial and just chat over simple things not for what he or she is not doing. Better daily life things and let's also acknowledge that this law don is also making our kids also impatient but they have been patient beyond their agent intellect. A lot of them have done that. And it's not easy to for the little ones to tame their mind to stay in those audie and all night but they have been doing that so they could be times that you can involve your child to do some household chores at the house and not keep talking where he or she is. Excessively involved in is e so agitated. The vice need to go away but the connect needs to be there and then lots of mental health professionals who are available online importance and they are happy to help anyone who is now having issues during the lockdown period that many of the mental health people who are doing it including myself. I would also say that. Give them a hug. Enjoy their little naughty tricks laugh at their jokes. Let them make the house dirty. You know and we'll clear the dog together Read them some extra stories comfort there in insecurities then ask some spots. Where do they live whenever we get? What is stopping us? They have been forced like more mature than their age. By the circumstances that they went through. So let's Just celebrate things with each other. Let's all pray together. Let's all be together as a family and enjoying this family time. Just thing that when. You're talking about lockdown does also You're not throwing up. Somebody unique challenges one of our listeners. After hearing your first episode eighties doubt to me to questing That I ask you this question. Obviously with the confidence charities icon name. Ma'am this guy is divorced and their go painting so the challenge for the Bruins is to find a place for custody exchange. You know where one billion can take the child from the other because of lock down. Every they're facing this challenge should now They're struggling to figure this out and the child was I think He's about six to seven years. Old started asking questions from the mother who has adorned says because it was earlier smooth at eight two they could tell stories and you know Satisfy the jails university man now. The the cushions how much more deep overdoses anxiety and everything and then given that debord opinions are also additionally inches because of the logged on and they're not able to on the custody exchange so you wanted to ask that how does it impact the psychology of child who has no all either in a separation Albany ancient during the billions. It's important to I lowering the anxiety that Obama has and because we have The online platforms where the child can connect with the other parents. Who doesn't have the custody that he or she should be able to connect with each other even though they have to be staying in this manner so we don't deprive the child of the other band in fact make it a better move in fact connect with the other parent Through the social media or not social media Saudi the Internet platform and connect with the better. And I can see that there is a problem but then if you explain to the child I don't see that they don't understand in fact that unsung heroes they are. They're very who they understand. Many things very easily right testing I think of the the shoot onto his question and the guy was actually very well at the system. Pretty but I will assist you in connecting with your bed with the wherever the bed. In the father of the mother of and in fact it's also giving opportunity to the other parent to connect. Nc This as a little family unit. I see it very differently. I see very positive and friendly also so that they can probably live together for the spur of diamond and the Assad the south together. I think I think we just heard about this case of litigation into the notion that they've started Staying together because goupil and big ditch there. Lots of parents who started doing that. It's the just because we know that he's a Hito and yet talking about. There are lots of ban until Saturday doing that. And some of landed up with a better relationship saw. I see a lot of positivity there and your anguish and your anger and your host of behavioral goes away in such things and you become very close to each other. So let's take this as an opportunity which is Which is a silver lining. Not that definitely could be a silver lining. Let us hope for the best so much as always we cannot wrap the show without talking about real conversations in your view. What role does conversations play ineffective unconscious parenting? I think non conversations not conversations happy conversations just have to be there I mean how can you be in the same house with your child and not talk to him and be so angry with him for his small little mistake? We've all done mistakes. We shouldn't take away that privilege that the child has that my parents is is talking in my bed and disconnecting with me and You know must every fight become into a battle. Moi? Don't think so and let's just connect let's just greet each other and let learn to appreciate each other. We have to appreciate our children not beyond a certain point but appreciate them and also let them know where they're going wrong. They need to be doing that and I would say that. Don't get too harsh with them. Don't get to food with them. Because the more the harsh more the children are not able to take back and we have to sit and reason out and also learn to communicate with each other so communication is very big tool that is there between The child and the parent and conversations have to be the most so when you talk about the conversations and family would like to ask you about the teenagers. Today we see many of them look withdrawn and much less conversational than we used to be when we were young. What role you think. The parents and elders Los Complains just situation yes see. Teenagers have stopped having many conversations with their parents or their grandparents were staying in the same house in fact It starts off small so from the younger age. Only Leonardo seeing that. The children are connecting with each other. I think we need to region and the create certain situations in the house where the child is connecting with the maddened or with the grandparent or the extended family and We need to be open about it and get them to do certain chores in the house and not leave it to the helpers or the caretakers of the house to do simple chores like picking up glasses Elaine tables. I them in many things and it begins when you're small. It doesn't begin age. The conversations definitely have gone down and we don't know what to converse about in in fact. We are only talking about homework and video building. We're not talking novel things. We're not having a GOV session where that child Ville. If you're listening it now take note of what they explore. Distilling you so that you can become that Rockstar Perrin. That he always wanted to be with this. I wrap up this episode of real conversations. Thank you for taking out Dane. Stay safe stay happy and almost every month.
Chinas Technology-Enhanced Authoritarianism: A Conversation with Samantha Hoffman
"<music> they low everyone and welcome to the power three point. Oh podcast examining authoritarian resurgence and democratic resilience in an era globalization power three point is brought to you by the international former democratic studies the center of the national endowment for democracy. I'm your host sean shot. The colombo senior director neds international forum for democratic studies and i'm your co host chris walker vice president for studies and analysis at the endowment recording the studio in washington d._c. Recent international debate has centered on china's largest technology firms the relationships with beijing and the implications of their growing involvement in global markets concerns over hallways role have dominated the discussion a growing body of reporting and analysis suggests the broader intersection of china nine and technology is far more complex and far reaching within china chinese firms are developing surveillance systems facial and voice recognition technology social social credit systems and advanced censorship capabilities even as the government aspires to global superpower status in artificial intelligence. All of this is happening. In the absence sense of robust domestic scrutiny by independence society will at the same time china's belt and road initiative and related digital silk road project are helping disseminate these capabilities globally to shed further light on the nature of this increasingly complex web of relationships and to explain the nuances of how china's authorities may be interested misted in leveraging these new technologies. We're pleased to welcome to the power three point. Oh podcast samantha hoffman a fellow at the australian strategic policy institute you'd be for today's discussion china's technology enhanced authoritarianism. Thank you for having me so sam. Lemme kick it off by referring to <hes> you recently testified alongside chris before the house permanent select committee on intelligence at a hearing on china's digital authoritarianism so in your testimony you of noted that the chinese party state is trying to control international discourse on china and that it expects technology to enhance the sophistication of this process so i was hoping you could go into into a bit more detail on this particularly on the role in vision for technology by the chinese party state absolutely <hes> so i think it's best to start framing <hes> what this means domestically and then look at how that expense out worth technology is essentially a tool that allows the chinese communist party to enhance its existing methods for controlling and managing society the objective is to essentially allow technology to be used used as a tool that come increasingly blurs the line between the parties <hes> consensual and coercive forms of control the party in order to maintain empower also needs to expand power because the way that it sees security. It's not a concept that ends at china's borders so it's not a domestic domestic or international security. It's actually inside the party and then everything outside of it and so as china grows globally the party also needs to expand its power to protect it and so technology is a way of improving <hes> the parties ability to for instance understand its external attornal environment so that it can shape it <hes> oftentimes in the debate on highway five defer instance where nearly focused on on national security threats but the problems associated with this are a lot broader. Civil liberties is a major issue and so the one thing that's chinese communist party talks about is that it can use data collected from the projects which include things related to five g. and smart cities development to understand the local environment to help the businesses directly involved in the projects that then also to allow the party to understand its political environment and ultimately mentally shape it the way people think about china and the chinese communist party in particular well you know in your commentary just now it echos a <hes> a line that you used in your testimony which i thought was really striking so let me just read it back to you and get your reaction to this you said for the c._c._p. The border that matters most is is not the border between the p._s._e. And the world but rather the border between the party and everybody else more channels that open up between china and the outside world the more the party has to fill in <hes> and ensure those channels are controlled so can you just talk a little bit about the ways that the party does fill in these these gaps in these openings and wyatt sees this says imperative sure i'll start with wyatt sees this as imperative <hes> it has to do with the way that the chinese communist party defines national security or really better the described in the chinese context party state security and it says that at the basis of this concept is political security which is guaranteed not by ideological security and cultural security and then there are other elements that would be a lot more familiar to us military security environmental security pretty <hes> but with political security at the basis of that concept that means that the party has to prevent threats from emerging urging in order to protect its ideological space so domestically that means not only putting down on rest once it emerges that actually really creating the conditions to disincentivize any problems from ever having the opportunity to arise whether through consensual means or co course it means were necessary that extends outward because the party's ideological space doesn't stop at china's borders and threats to the party politically domestically you can emerge from the outside so it's not a concept that stops just because china's territory ns it continues outward because of protecting the party is is the objective than there is no border and internal because the party also has to control itself it has to manage <hes> <hes> help policies are implemented it has to manage corruption has the manage all these traditional issues if maintaining and expanding power the objectives and sam sam. You've ridden that oversees the c._c._p. Doesn't seek to exert control through direct coercion through cooperative versions of control. I'm wondering if if you just describe a little bit more what you mean by that short it's a bit of both cooperative is mostly focused on shaping discourse. <hes> you mentioned the beginning of the podcast and discourse has to do with shaping how people engage with china <hes> shaping the channels of communication if you're a student how you're ear engaging with china how if you're a businessman or woman how how you're engaging with with china if you are a government official <hes> if you're looking to be elected elected and you have a large overseas chinese community in your district. How are you engaging with that community. Are you engaging with a very diverse community. That isn't representative of only the party or you. Engaging with channels at the party tends to control. It's all of those things combined. There's also course of elements of this for instance. I mean this is nothing new the party harasses political opponents overseas it also is mainly focused on overseas in ethnic chinese but it also extends extends to individuals who are working on issues that are sensitive to the chinese communist party. That's why you see academic self censorship or self censorship in think-tank environments because in order to maintain access. You have to conform to what the c._c._p. Describes as normal behavior and and why in your view and maybe this is an obvious question but why is it necessary <hes> whether in the coercive or in the cooperative categories of this manipulation and control for that sort of control to be exerted in the first place what what exactly are they seeking to sideline from the discussion or prevent from ever being taken up. That's so crucial so a few look at the way. The chinese communist party describes breath. It's a threat perceptions. One of the consistent themes is is always the idea of say a color revolution type event taking in place in china and if an event like that is the type of threat that the chinese communist party perceives one. That's primary political <hes> they also see that as something that can emerge from outside at china whether it's a government or entities that are interfering that are giving a voice two political opposition to the party creating an opportunity for individuals inside and outside of china to mobilize around an idea that is different than what the party says is true or right and that can take place outside of china before it takes place inside of china and so it needs to control those spaces inside and outside of china in order to prevent that type of threat from merging because if you get to the point that the party has lost political legitimacy or ideological legitimacy or at least that it can't control that <hes> it doesn't matter whether or not a shot is fired if it's lost that to begin with then it sees itself as losing on the ultimate battle so implicit in what you said is an emphasis on on this term discourse and you've written about the concept of discourse power in the way that the chinese party stayed defines it. Can you talk a little little bit about why this concept of discourse power is relevant to the global information ecosystem and why would it be applicable to for instance international credit rating engage in sees or international technical standard setting bodies <hes> which are all places in which you've said that you know discourse power is is trying to manifest itself ruin which the c._p._a. Wants to manifest as course power the idea of discourse power or the right to speak is essentially the described by the party as a way of ensuring the effectiveness and power of its speech in order to have that the party needs to collect data uh in order to enhance its ability to influence local environments and places outside of china needs to collect data in order to understand normal political and economic risks and it sees it sees collection power as the ability to sort of collect information from all areas of the world in real time nine and then communication power as something that decides the parties ability to influence and both of those things are directly related and data collection supports that process <hes> so data collection comes from smart cities data collection comes from places like confucius institutes. It comes from the c. P. describes collecting information from back doors and <hes> also other means <hes> from infrastructure projects projects from things like hotels and telecoms companies as well as a way of improving this knowledge and it's not that the data can be effective immediately but when it technology catches up and predictive capacity improves than it has that data in order order to make it usable or when it decides that it wants to have a particular set of information or it wants to pull a string it can do that more easily than and if it didn't have this to begin with specifically the party talks about data collection from belton brute initiative projects and this is actually louis something that it already claims to be doing it takes data from these projects and sends it back to five major data centers in china and uses that to inform. This is kind of analysis so it's not just an idea. It's something that the party claims is already happening. It's interesting that this idea of discourse is not limited to what we would typically think of discourse as a telling story or part of you know the party stated objective to tell china's story better to the world but it's really about <hes> technical technical standards it's about actual sort of data collection and the nuts and bolts of communication affecting not just the story that's told but the technology through which that story flows almost exactly and the c._c._p. Is really ahead in trying to set technical standards in <hes> international bodies. He's you know not only is developing technology locally important to the c. p. but it's also setting standards internationally and also setting norms <hes> and controlling the rules for engagement and a lot of ways with china in one way of doing that is being ahead of the united states and other western in liberal democracies in this particular <hes> space an example of what this course power actually looks like you can point to the civil aviation administration of china last year <hes> sending a letter to believe it was thirty three major national carriers and they said that we need you to change the way that you talk about taiwan on your airlines website. If you don't do this then we will accuse you of serious dishonesty st for not following through with this particular order and that dishonesty will be recorded on your airlines credit record and once that's recorded and then that'll be forwarded to the chinese credit agencies and that mark will be there for also other government entities to to potentially find you for instance so the cyberspace space administration of china was specifically listed in <hes> a letter teen lines <hes> but then other laws the orleans could have been accused of violating were the surveying and mapping law or advertising law and by connecting the violation to a credit credit record. It's essentially enhancing the efficiency of the c._p._s. Existing methods for shaping how entities <music> are willing to behave and it's worth noting that the airlines weren't told the chain to china specific website they were told to change their global websites because when they tried to change just it or tried to create just a china website to respond to this demand they were actually told no and so it's not that companies are not used to being told old to talk about taiwan in a particular way. It's that with these systems using technology to enhance existing forms of control the all encompassing nature and the effectiveness is intended to improve and really what you've described <hes> just more fundamentally is is to get the edge in artificial intelligence. You need to have the data collection and curation capacity and then you need to be able to test it in order or to develop the algorithm. Ick edge and china has in many ways and unlimited ability to do this. You described it in the external donald context through and other initiatives but within its own borders ashanti alluded to at the outset there really are no checks on the way the authorities gather the data and use it. This is a question everywhere today but for open societies. There's a debate about whether or at least there should be more vigorous debate about how these sorts of efforts are undertaken in your view. Is there anything that's in view right now. That can slow down or otherwise stop the trajectory of the way in which the chinese authorities are pursuing the state of collection and artificial intelligence enterprises underway internationally that we need to be having a conversation privacy and it needs to take these issues into consideration. It's not just about the data were showing with companies. It's also how that data can be exploited by other actors and what that means on a broader security context outside of our sort of traditional narrow framing of national security risk not just espionage civil liberties domestically the party is engaged in a multi staged multi decade project to use technology you to enhance control so that started in the early nineteen nineties with e-governance projects and led to were today with the development of smart cities across is china you see in its most coercive invisible forms in xinjiang but it's also not started there and it's not limited to that region. This is taking place across china but the party is also relying on the ability of government agencies to share information. It's relying on efficiency ansi and it's not there yet so it's not that it's the chinese communist party already. Has this all encompassing form of surveillance that is one hundred percent effective but i think also if he traced back and look at where it started talking about these concepts. None of the technology existed doubt most government offices had more than a fax machine so it's it's not that it can't achieve. Its objectives insists that it's going to be it's going to take a number of years and there will be bumps along the way but the complexity doesn't mean a lack of strategy and your observation earlier about the cooperative versions of control of it reminded me of a of a fascinating conversation we recently had on the podcast with citizen labs ron debord who in january twenty nineteen journal of democracy article close sketched out a number of reasons why social media presents many problems and i see some connected themes here in the sense that we all irrespective of of where we are really enjoy the benefits of the convenience of the new technology and it seems that in the case of the chinese authorities they've have also been very adept at using the benefits and convenience of the technology as a way to fuse their ambitions of control convenience and i'm wondering if you just share your reflections on that idea yet ideally the chinese communist party achieves control through convenience and that's it's the social credit system and that smart cities also have those elements and i think sometimes this is misunderstood as if the more cooperative <hes> consensual forms of control are distinct from the course of ones but actually the completely interlinked and it's always been that way conceptually <hes> for the chinese communist it's party but technology is a tool to make that possible smart cities for instance helped to solve problems related to environmental pollution food and health safety safety you think back to the two thousands the china had a number of serious public health crises the milk powder scandal sars the also had natural actual disaster this at one earthquake in two thousand eight and so those are all things that smart cities technology and social credit system are directed also improving but there's a key difference the party frames these issues under a concept that the party calls social management and social management is ultimately about power power and protecting the party's power preferably preemptively so a system like social credit for instance and the technologies support it and this entire ecosystem really of control is also meant to replace the need for law or effective civil society and that's the key difference in china but i think also globally <hes> these are issues that we need to be thinking about. I i was looking at a case. <hes> prior testimony where turkey's leading mobile provider signed an agreement with hallway on a five jean smart cities. No i think that's just on paper for now but imagine if that actually <hes> materializes there are according to human rights watch over ten one thousand weaker refugees in turkey so if the party can also extended surveillance overseas or pull the strings when it decides at once to by providing something that offers convenience and improves the development another country then it's also expanding its power in a way that isn't visibly coercive coercive. Well just a touch on what you mentioned about smart city projects. I saw your recently involved in comprehensive mapping project with the australian elian strategic policy institute <hes> where you and your co-authors essentially mapped around seventy five smart city projects and i was wondering if you could just tell us a little bit about what you found in the course of that project whether there are any key conclusions that arose from looking at all so many projects yes at the australian strategic policy institute we recently launched mapping china's tech giants and it's a website and report and the website maps the global expansion of eleven chinese tech companies while way you said t. biotech companies <hes> degi and others and we essentially just mapped where it has research corporations of where agreements was smart cities as you you mentioned <hes> have been made and it's actually <hes> we aren't stopping there. We are adding <hes>. We're continuing to add more data points <hes> so i know there's already more smart cities that we we're adding in the next couple of weeks and then next year. We're going to release a second phase adding more companies and i think it's a great tool all for researchers and journalists to <hes> to see where these cooperations exist and look into them and try to understand them a little bit more because right now. I think there is is very little understanding of what is taking place in what we've what we've mapped out. I think one of the misperceptions around chinese assistance for smart city development is that it it's only taking place on a sort of a bilateral basis between authoritarian regimes and china were it seems from the reporting that it's actually happening in a variety of political settings including democracies yep. There are smart cities projects in places like facebook germany in addition to projects such as one that was reported on <hes> earlier this year in venezuela. I think oftentimes when we're framing the issue of the export south china surveillance technologies in particular often people focus on that technology being exported to other regimes that will use it <hes> coercively coercively but what's missed is that for the c. c. p. the cooperation and coercion go hand in hand can't be separated and i don't think that liberal democracy accuracy or not we can turn off those functions if that's how it was designed and you said a short while ago that china through its engagement will seek seek to sideline civil society and rule of law in essence <hes> they tried to do that at home and i think in this era of globalization it's been hard hard for many audiences around the world where china's engaging to see how it could be the case that china through its exertion of influence beyond its it's national borders would even attempt to do something similar so just wondering to kind of recap if you could say a word about how <hes> countries and societies that are engaging with china commercially or in other ways should reframe they're thinking about the challenges opposed to independence touche's within their open societies and you just a moment ago alluded to the fact that it can be liberal democracies z's with long track records in scandinavia but it can also be <hes> countries whose <hes> institutional roots may not be as deep and as durable <hes>. What sort of reframing of understanding do we need to undergo in order to put this challenge into proper perspective. I think the main thing is really. We need to have a serious conversation about privacy in china. You know the the c._c._p._a.'s he is britain a number of draft regulations on on privacy protection but also the party says that privacy stops were the party's power begins and it says that by the the way that it defines the law the law is there to enhance the party's power ultimately and if that's the case then there is no privacy production <hes> when the party decides to insert itself that extends outward because if for instance you are a political opponent of the c. c. p. living living in germany where smart cities projects or elsewhere the party would then have another avenue for attempting to interfere our fear with that individual but it's not limited to just individuals. It's also a i think i think oftentimes when you say that in people think well. I'm not going to be affected affected. <hes> it's not going to affect me but then it's a bit of a slippery slope isn't it. I think one of the things that's come out and in some of the research that we've done is that the the issues that have customarily been seen as a off limits from the c._c._p.'s point of view taiwan. I want to bet ten and men <hes> is actually grown quite a bit and what's striking is if you look at the way in which investment agreements have been reached in in places like kenya or big technology deals in places like ecuador or similar sorts of deals with satellite communications technology analogy in places like argentina. The common pattern is that there's virtually no meaningful public discussion around the establishment of these agreements and it's usually far after the fact where civil society or policy community voices in these settings will say this doesn't look quite brighter doesn't feel quite right or we didn't really understand because it wasn't given much sunlight at the outset and so is it your sense that the scope of <hes> subject jack matter that is off limits already grown in this way i think it has but then the correction to that is to improve the way that we frame rain these issues <hes> you know to understand what the c._c. P. is doing you have to understand how it frames the issues of power and security and global governance and that would create a better understanding of how these particular projects before their agreements or even made aid could potentially have unintended consequences. I think often we might get caught up in the way the c._p._t. C._p._t. finds its core interests taiwan south tennessee but if you go back to the definition of state security long before xi jinping clearly after tannen it starts to include the c._c._p.'s concept of cultural security which is basically the c._c._p. Defines what chinese culture is not the chinese people not china china but it's a c._c._p.'s version of of chinese culture and so it has already expanded that into the way for instance researchers. Ask questions about china. If you look at a lot of research on china it's the kinds of questions people are asking can be very narrow <hes> in the way at least that we approach the research can be framed in a very narrow way and that's advantageous to the c._c._p. Immune somehow it's convinced governments around the world to separate <hes> trade relations from political relations for a very long time as if those two things can be managed somehow separately but the party itself doesn't doesn't separate those things domestically so why would it do that in international relations <hes> so yes. It's it's an incremental process. It's not it's not always a smoking gun evidence <hes> because this is <hes> shaping discourse course shaping the way people think engage with the party and the party's definition of what china is so before we wrap up our conversation. I'd like to conclude with our final segment called what we're reading where we discuss what's at the top of our respective reading lists and what we might recommend to our listeners so sam. Do you want to start off sure so. I've just started in the last <hes> week. Reading the age of surveillance capitalism by shoshana <hes> zubov and it's <hes> relief has agreed so far so i'm looking forward to finishing it and and then as a longer read a paper released earlier this month by human rights watch <hes> algorithms of repression. I my along and her team it's a fantastic agreed reverse engineering policing app that was used that that is used in xinjiang to control entire population and it shows both the limits limits and trajectory this of this technology i think and for my part <hes> i've gone back to look at richard mcgregor's the party the secret world of china's communist rulers and this book was published about a decade ago and i think in the intervening years the world has come to see the impact of the party in ways as that mcgregor <hes> really deathly described at that time i think among other things the <hes> the description of china ink and the fusion of commerce and politics that we've just been discussing here was one of his <hes> excellent insights. I'd note that he emphasized the party's conscious retreat from the private. David lives the chinese people but i think as sam hoffman and others are writing now <hes> that may be bending in another direction and might be cause for experts on. I'm trying to take a fresh look at just how technology is playing a role that read insinuating itself into <hes> chinese life more more directly and for me in line with the thirtieth anniversary of the tenement square massacre i'm reading two thousand fourteen. The people's republic of amnesia tiananmen revisited by louisa limb. Who's a scholar and co host of the terrific little red podcast on all things china. <hes> in the book limb not only reveals new details about what happened in one thousand nine but she also grapples with the legacy of an event that the c._p._a. C._p._a.'s she puts it has neither forgotten nor is at peace with she also says in a recent guardian op ed that she co authored with alario maria sala that china has systematically medically erase the evidence in memory of this violent suppression using it's increasingly high-tech apparatus of censorship and control which seems particularly relevant to our discussion today and i'd like to take this opportunity to thank him huffman again for joining us. Thank you for having me. That's all for today's episode of the power three point. Oh podcast for more on the topic topic we discussed today. We recommend reading sam. Hoffman's may twenty nineteen testimony before the u._s. House permanent select committee on intelligence. You can also download download more for publications and other projects contributed to on the website or the australian strategic policy institute for further analysis of the themes we discussed today and we'll we'll be examining and future podcast episodes. Is it our blog power three point. Oh understanding modern authoritarian influence we also invite you to join the conversation with us on facebook and twitter. You can find us using the handle at think democracy. Additional resources are available on the website at w._w._w. Oh you w dot med dot org slash ideas. If you've enjoyed today's show please rate us on itunes. Google play or whichever podcast app you use special special. Thanks to our podcast production team at the international forum producer jessica ludwig and editing and sound engineer rochelle fast. I'm chris walker. Walker was shot the colorful and sam hoffman. He hope you enjoyed this discussion on china's technology enhanced authoritarianism and invite you to tune in again entra future power three point podcasts.
Weekend Racing Preview | Caulfield 29th
"What's he doing on these nine Cava. She's back home almost three wide no. I'm your host Meek Wall. It's a big weight in the studio. He the iphone grandfather has pushed group one rice into the Sunday. We've got plenty to cover joined well. It's a ripping wake. Wally this dating that fraud. I know a groupon rising Saturday group on rising Sunday group one rising a normal doing the foam but gee. He's going to be fun fair enough if you're gonNA move positive dorms. The man in black gear didn't get the memo mites ninth if you had a sent the memo. What's The guy today where you go. I think I'm I'm a model. Could you tell me about your group one rising everywhere so we're GONNA have contracts Coalfield Josie and Melissa to Sydney with your track report here. We'll stop because obviously it's a great bond. Rising on Saturday Ryo true good full lose hill a little bit of wing North North Easterly which will maintain its look. It's not going to have that much. Impact only fifteen ks but here. I think this is going to be a big advantage on spayed around Rosehill on Saturday and now we get to coalfield on Sunday at six. Mehta's good good for now windy speak of and again I think on Spain is going to be a huge advantage for shoot rices aimed for eight hundred plus the Emma. You've got to be on. I think they're going to be winning. Lots of rices absolutely group one racing tracks. GonNa Cover today but we got to Sydney first because that is the satellite. Let's have a look at the golden rose market. He People Act as your fiber. Currently it's free dollars exceedances sixty yard dash and yes yes yes yes at four hundred fifty. We we go from there. Cube Rick and Castle Vecchio both eleven dollars prints firewall twenty dollars passage twenty-six and others further further Josie the map match really important. I think probably the most important part of this race is a small field and I don't think they going to go fast Yale. Dash I think laid and he is where I think the rise can be one lost because I think maybe we can see at so. I just don't think horses and exceedances even Castle Vecchio had that early Gates Right Speight close enough and you in a slower on rice doesn't matter if you're not too far off them but when you go to host like bb Wack in front of you lost dot ran twenty to one eleven into lost four hundred loss two hundred and they couldn't catch him. I think this is gonNA sit up exactly locked at Yale Dash. Hey can laden. He's going to give a massive run as well as to. I think you're going to clear out and I just think the widest rice is going to be run. It sits up perfectly for BBC wacky got back to his best on the dry track. I think these treacle suit horses on Spe Kobe on with the Godolphin Blue Army to win the Golden R-ariz. Bv Wack Very Good Josie. Do you agree that's good as before no because he writes divert different pressure here. There's any tools is in this race that have won seven for the loans. That's Prince foul was it was terrible. I up and of course Kosovac and I want to talk about Kaseke. I because he's had an unusual preparation Russian coming into this race. He ran over fifteen hundred meters. I up with fifty eight. He got back on a die way. You couldn't really might grand and when he indeed when you go to the outside after being ridden CODA gain a flu and he showed the acceleration that I wanted to see adjust picked on these running saw the last fifty so he comes back an extra hundred meters fights while while like castell Vicki I was because this is a small field josie spike speed dash guy fold and dictate terms terms BIVOUAC with full. Don't pass each go forward and put some pressure on these horses in existence needs to come across us. Don't passage BIVOUAC and sit on those horses. This is a group one. These more pressure is tactical in this small field guy back and Watch Castle Vecchio when he sat when he drew and saw it and he set up on the speed when he when he's group one champagne. Hey Ken seek close. You don't have to draw net where he has to come back in Roy Court. He's only going to be three pays back a set. Nas and close when he want. He's a group one and he saw has run out of the fourteen hundred when he was thirty at to go back in a massive run once again and he has the acceleration tuna foot to seat off these pressure in a group one race ace be close enough this time and pick them apart light dropping back set whites drop from the fifty eight to sit whites a seats closer. He's drone bed up oil blocking and I can't believe the price that we're going to get castaway. Cay Ifa may cause he's proven at this four hundred hundred and he's absorbed this type of pressure group pressure beforehand so i WanNa wrote him. It is compounded angels and that's the thing it's marketplace and things like that and if they suspect about the price of correct I think he starts children the three dollars. I think he's a great bit. They don't boxer. CONSI- brought technically. He's the host to catch because we don't consis Easter odds to on the APP and Shannon to the farm. PAYPAL DEBORD warns Who's sponsoring the Rice. If you are in the short feel free to vote for spring all stakes Sharon Josie well machining sparkling events attention to Sunday after everyone's rausing from their beds hopefully after a win way going to have a book at the Underwood first of all oy homes men sixty five at hot four dollars twenty getting fifty the choices one of eleven dollars humidor Canadiana both seventeen dollars Yucatan twenty three young prince sabotage twenty-seven Josie he could rice. I think when you look at it originally you'll go yet. It's plenty of spayed. He guy like chocolate truffles. Getting we know goes forward hung's roll forward and then are trying to break it down. Just think from those ads so I'd guides gala chop can get across and then give the perfect cat across huntsman hydrogen consider outside track for fools. I think we laid his back. Getting one one handles the interesting map police for maize on one three runs is sort of more or less tame conservatively moderately. I think one now four they've got to be somewhat positive so I think he has to be in the first five or seeks Hartnell. If he's going to win this race. It's good rice just want to start with getting lookie wanted one hundred one baiting mystic journey in the mcabe loss dot it was a big figure and it was is two and a half seconds in so it's time that was a foster on Rice Kenny hold back usually when horses run that cost especially at that quite a one hundred one. They usually come. I'm off and they just don't hold that Pacey. That's a big figure. He's GonNa turn replicate if he can replicate that or he's a superstar but just thinking like come off that Ron and that's why I'm carrying on huntings when these profile and they always perfect for this horse he's winning. The fame was really good. It was moderate but he does a lab to ZIP and now it's should set up perfectly for him to the have a pig run here later if he does. I think you'll be winning hines when I think he's a great bit. That is push stay. I'll agree with you Josie. He's the one I don't WanNa be riding because he won this race sick up last year and remember hey jazz missed prior to going into this rice lash G we'll. He's well. He's a winner I stop going into this guy and it's a proven formula full heisman and what I really like about him is that is drawn and a little bit been. Malam can just wipe for for Fools Tyrrell L. Ford Guy Trump will be positive authorities. Run was terrific. I doubt from a long lie off so he steps out to a distance. Pay The suits in the eight hundred you. Catan Iran he the stable mighty heisman not sure but if he does he'll be positive now the chosen one was stuck three date night Gaba in the fan last each drawn better and hey can hold a physician so there's more pressure out with trap full skylight job heisman is just going to sit out and shoot the breeze and white for a mold and make a decision he can see that there after two longs on homes suit team to get into a rhythm then take it up as like claw him out in the Mall Hill and then he'll control it and I think he just gets the galloping room that he needs. He's better host the she getting's gotTa back. I got up. He's got to prove it again. I want to say to him from getting under the one brilliant rod he's guide to roll forward and Sean Feeding Super Tortoise is going to back up to heal pressure him to trauma obey in that first half a dozen spots is a little bit of pressure early. Connecticut gets back. Yulong prints will join random humidor run a little bit bought homes. Men holds the cager on outwitting writing for all that pressure on his left shoulder and he's won this race last year so giddy up. I think he's a special and he's a real good vine a form. That's a push boise command of banging that went on obviously tells me husband's the one so we're gonNA take a break while the sand guys coming here and gave its e Mashing Rowlatt banging when we come back. We're going to both pro us at Caulfield. Welcome back to the Free Wide Cava. It's talk to hit up. The eggs will start with the colts and Geldings gentlemen familiar here at the top of the mock. It's been good to his racing data. San At two dollars seventy mini express positive and fifty guy bought it. I does super safe at eleven dollars Raka Bass Khurana at thirty dollars and that's just causes any of us against Strasbourg Fifteen Hilo at sixteen. Your deal nineteen grounds well at twenty one box Josie Year could spayed here. I think Tuck a Best Arana reckon that motivate you notice row full with the holy one. Oh go food. Dallas and I think from that inside Guy Die Neetu row forward. Would they need to be in the first four or five dollars and then you've got our guy to go on the map who sources like halo defying danger. I think they'll probably be three ward so they might find find it difficult to really good rice. It's an even Rice Dallas San Fiber deservedly so I suppose two dollars seventy a little bit skinny for May of mocked him Aram Three Dollars Fifty so oh I think he might drift just up. The street loss dot worries me a little bit. It was a second slower than the zoo Tori Rice over twelve hundred meters up the strike. They went hat. Yes La di came home slow. I know he did a lot of things wrong. Go Wrong League and he looks like a whole list of fourteen hundred around the corner and he's going to be right up his alley but I I just thought the consumer I think he might drift Miam- with the Brisbane horse alligator blood four from four he comes down look look. He's a dollar forty into adult twenty two so they put up a dollar forty and he was backed into a dollar twenty two so happy to take it though a forty that's how much the market loves these and was very very slowly run rice but it was best lost four hundred base loss two hundred by the boy on the die twenty two and a half and eleven and four or something like that so it's going to map perfectly elegant a blood. I think they had a spin around the during the wake which law at Oregon is going to run a huge foyer of Karan's six dollars and the at the moment beat the valley so on with alligator blood to knock off the favorite. He's honest debate of mocking fiber but I've just mocked him a little bit bigger alligator alligator blood to get the job done Josie so you think do you think it will only think the market logs alligator blood but I think you'll firm but I don't. He's GonNa firm too much Dagobert. Who Do you lock First Armored Coffee and cigarettes the Guida Challah Joan into the frost. I reckon reckon. This is a great rice fire expand. The reason being is the speed inside and the speed at Saudi across Quebec Rosca Rosca best a three for three. He's he's. He's got a row Ford. GotTa be pressured by Groundswell. You would think defined dance out. He Lo we'll come across your deal can come across as well a bitter end abandoning social deal and the holy one row forward Saudis pressure getting to the top of these he'll now drawing back can off so what does it tools that adjoin law gates with four my before eight hundred made it and they proven at the four hundred hundred made the three K. runners familiar rice that ought ought to be riding a three five and two and why three five and to Dallas on hey can hold a position forward and to pay back or pay back. He's going to have allegations I gave him with pressure on him from outside hosted coming across so using the squeeze strip as an interesting round of these souls Awlaki four eight hundred made the foam. He's proven it horse level. He got lost down the street. I'm going to forgive around he'll be bitter. Aranda been so I was Strasbourg and allegation of blood and Dallas Allison again and get the best runs in the rice. They're all proven around that forty and under made a Mike as well. I just need to pick a path at the dawn the one on one out of those trees he's gone. He's a winner arguably. He should have won. Four hundred major. Rice Adecco field this size produce. He just got lost and floated a little bit. It's fair to size improved. He's he's come back and better horse. You say you would be with the Gazeta that Rice at Flemington. Hey got lost digital wrong and he's still one still found a way so that's why I'm really happy these sources a special holes and the further the better for him the fourteen hundred brought up his alley and when he gets to the mall he'll John John John into the allegation piggy Pie within that Sahara Don's doing the shopping. They very very good compelling. Having ties is for both boys or let's have a look at the phillies pro you now. This is far more open what was saying and what in the two year old. Rice's and it's very euro rice to your old glasses and trail as a lot of good often runners miss mantra will be the foreign the blue appointment with all boys flip Ford Missile Mantra for tamely for fifty law. I does snapped answer. Laban's Saturday at Fifteen krantz seven bucks pin sake and acting both breath at the twenty dollars and if the Pie knows twenty-three south by twenty seeks and and we go from there Josie yet look. I've got a lot of speeding. These is right now. It's a big field and so usually horses can roll along but don't have huge courses like acting. SAF Bank will go forward trying late snap. Danza probably late his back. Go get the go can probably get the one law bit worried but can probably be three wide again if there's not much spayed. There's no real disadvantages. Three water ran caufield to map horses somme. I think it's an Edwards Cran ten lease the really interesting one. It's drawn an insider's guide for Chri wants to be Karen actually wants to be positive if they find a spot then it might be the horse broad just had it. Maybe a couple of pays back but if there is any ten guy to be reading positively and look at it could be the one annoy taped Sin Edwards Cram at seventy dollars on the fact that Ed Mathurin stood. I know so I think there's a little bit of value there about that. Horse Look Lost Lost Dot at Flemington up the streit. They win a second so I'd stand Tom so it was good. It was on the quick seven day backup from a really good run. I thought now it's had two weeks gets gets to the fourteen hundred meters. It's one third up before at Flemington at one and here it follows guys to throw it up caufield four to eight hundred meters or I think it's going to run a really good rice and I like the fact that it's Mac is just perfect or I think he can sue probably in the first six which I think would be a huge advantage on Saturday and if a cane arguments spot at the Roy on these fields in Iraq and she can win this rights. I am petrified of ten leaf. Tinley goes forward. I think clearly the coolest but I just had a couple of pays back mantra just wide. She gets through from eleven. I think she'll end up a long white back and how buck story like she'd lost what we saw on the map just think she's Sim Value Promise Josie. I'll tell you want when you talk to listen even if dicon because as you were talking when seven hundred to seek I think they knew what he was saying even though he obviously Cox were in studio in a bunker here. Celebrities krant might don't be afraid to take me back by them mugs Josie pick up a stay so remind what was that yeah African Safari hunting and then hey we got this is a great little leff automated nine hundred meter rights he because there's a lack of speed in this race as Josie mentioned now acting she's a fourteen under made a winner and she's undefeated scratch last week shoe jumped charm control this temp going up the hill a rough in their ice here and go get the girl southbank will come across. Did you say snap dancing last Flemington three wide now Cava paypal's April's award show stuck date and she was solid light. She Joel's a guy she can seat and saw back snap Danso William Prove from Lindsay Smith Tame comes across Beautiful Ron. You would think now gone watch the reply Tinley last out of Flemington where she jumped with them. Then she was snagged back to be ridden for Palsy Causey. She was held up from the four hundred tool bat inside the two hundred when she got at she flashlight which was fantastic. She's going to if she can begin lock. She did at Flemington. She concede to pays back three pays back problem one off the faints and all WanNa rod are think that she's got a lot of upside after Gallup at Flemington. She's perfectly situated headed for coalfield. He droning to take up that early advantage the pressure on the shell fly lawyer. WHO's backing up after eleven hundred Beta sick to against the boys always on the weekend fleet kids back and Michelle metric back and meets all mantra had to join a guy she would've been a good thing all would have thought on run at Flemington last up she goes back and gets into that awkward could guide and gives them a spot on a wreck. Her grandfather will be the mall during this guy so tenley given the best rod with a Guy Bait. Early doors are think she's the one I want to be on this day there and he makes a really good point about Mankato and we speak a bad at Christie's. Sometimes the best horse doesn't win. The rice and that's the point is what you're saying. He's Lymington lost one hundred percent and the reason being is Matt so important because you just can't be giving good horses three four links just going to pick them up and you can have to unlock and all those conesa things if she's going to win. I think it's the mall at coalfield a bit long long right back light last year on an aunt saw Guyton flashing light where or is this is not gonNa let I want to got Busta so think they'll just wrote a conservatively and hopefully picking them apart and if she's good enough to win it but these controls played really worries me I with the acting out front snap dance at the K. Cienega Krantz going to get a good round but ten league for me who now we've been talking a little bit in the last a couple of weeks around at training partnerships and getting a few words from trying that were partnering up with about horses that they have coming up. Josie Yukiko is off this week on this as an absolute cracker of a blog fan of the show Josie. What's your yeah he neild last week the lowest one. I think was thirty something like that now. He's tipping US Brisbane number saying Cadigan. He said dropping white loves doing been worth the joint. Dan during the week they are ready to rock and roll Seti on Saturday. He's just fantastic struck right. You've got to be following. It's a loss push estee who you got. He's a good guy and he's an aunt standing trying and that's why we partner with spokesman. He's luck. Anthony Coming says well number three busy. She's one of the loss to. We've been typically strongly he on three award. She's up against enticing stop but he said she's trying to on this morning. She's in really good form and he thinks she we had to wait so you guys if you lock shooting for three and a right from Anthony Accounting's I'll tell you what there's also been a little bit of heartbreak but we shouldn't be disheartened because we got a strong push for a Horse Saas wake from the kitten gene stable and it was. I'll tell you what this was. A push. Josie and Luke Walton was going to be the winner what happened on Tuesday rice. One touch of paradise absolutely beautifully written Boy Qazi Wocka Wocka shot to the front had absolutely one boil money to the fifty meters and just got knocked off look and probably the White House track ended up flying. You had to be really on the track and unfortunately touch paradise at adopted back to the inside but it's a whole she can follow and it was a good team so anything else that comes at a price and follow him because they grew judges straight into. Uh Sports Bit Black One hundred percent or bad at that. We were a little bit stiffer. What's we Kevin Windscreen. Look into Maria Vision Mirror. We got to move winning coming up after the Brag and we will soon me. We'll take a break. We're going to got ran the country when we return welcome back to Free Wide Neikov. Let's go around the country country. We're GONNA stop what we always stop Jews in Perth Bryce for number. Four cockney crew absolutely busted. The clock loss dot e can win again. It's got really good three year old figure so it's come back a bit of four year old bay with it again. I gotcha yeah rice seeks before a young does resume eight. Hundred one debut at fourteen hundred is going to be ready to go. I think she's in for a really good prep seven tenths India man he's back. He's got fifty four and a half and a benchmark. ID is listed winner in that outrageous. Fulham suggests from gate one. We had to be very good sunshine boys in Taibbi Evans. We Trust Riceville. I've number seven and again. I don't have anything to add. Taibbi said Cadogan Sydney boys yes spaghetti sauce in the golden rose. This is my best of the dying in Sydney and a tough rice seven number two BIVOUAC. They WANNA know which way he guys he's a shadow hero then and then and the Chatto I'll get one every way I turn on nine eleven mickey well. Did you see him. Shaw down the middle once he got at Castle Vicky Dot D. Two one shannavy Shannavy Victoria based. There's no way you did say that. Caufield rice wray number. I Dr Drill sits up perfectly no speeding the rice thing he can win and also Mornington Internet's grandfather. We'll get to Mornington rice. Get it early. Velez Pride in the saddle is military's resigned from Peter and Paul snowden these first abby tripe. He's a pretty good hold stripe and also back correct lighting dot. He's ready to rock roll with a lot white rice the coalfield on Sunday night time for the panel sting up but Tommy Wilson he's tanking mantra. We're going to take him only ten late bank don on and Josie the multi James Song Buick all the place on Saturday at Rosehill two dollars fifty standing Jim. We dug through it best show ever plays. He's gone responsible. They have a great white.
2.21.20 How to live longer and healthier; Clark Stinks
"So glad you're with us here on the Clark Howard Show where it's about you learning ways to save more and spend less and no way whenever you are park. Dot Com our main website cart deals dot. Com is where we tell you about bargains about deals night and day coming up later we have kark stinks. It's where you post Clark Dot com slash. Clark stinks where you feel that well. I've done my job. Well with bad information bad advice or just bad guidance. And so if YOU CHECK OUT CLARK DOT com slash car stinks. You get to see what others have said and you can comment on it and coming up later you get to hear our on era version of Clark stinks. So what kind of stick to it. Is this people. Researchers at Harvard. University started a study in nineteen eighty forty years ago of the health of men and women and they track people based on how healthy life they were living and. I read a report on this Time magazine that they track people based on how much they exercised. What kind of wait? They had where they were smokers. How much they drank and whether they ate a diet was referred to as high implants low in fats and what they found over this study forever. Is that people who lived four of these five. Not necessarily. Nobody's perfect right. So you're eighty percent of the way there with these five characteristics which I'll tell you again how he exercising getting your weight under not smoking and not drinking a whole lot. They defined a lot of drinking for a woman striking more than a drink a day for more than two drinks a day so people who live what they refer to as a healthy life expectancy sorry healthy lifestyle. Guess what happens the disease free years of life? Not How long you extend your life but disease free for women after age fifty. You have ten more years that you just feel great in the rest of your life than you would otherwise. You don't have various diseases. You're fighting for men. It's eight more years. So in terms of life span overall women who live life healthy habits extend their overall years by fourteen and men by twelve but remember the women get ten more years of those years where they really feel great and then eight so it's not just about how long you GonNa web. It's what's the quality of that life that matters and the study pretty definitively shows that if you can live these healthy lifestyle choices. It will make a big difference in your overall health. They were specifically looking at three. Major illness areas diabetes heart disease and cancer so Kaiser Permanente which is the huge based in California has been running tests where people who've had heart trouble or given a Samsung. Watch that they allow Kaiser to monitor and when a patient has had a heart. Event is the cardiologists. Call it now. If they wished to enroll in the Kaiser Samsung Watch program. They then have things that are supposed to do regardless of whether they got the watcher. Not About Things they do for managing their health and the Samsung. Watch reminds you may have you taken Bob Hill or whatever and it tracks your activity. They found they've given out four thousand of these so far and they've found a big difference and the health moving forward of people who stick to a program with watch. They gave gave them a year to see how they were doing. And the readmission rate is much much much better for people have the watch nagging them than people didn't so now they're going to expand it because the rate at which people have a problem is much higher for people five times to eight times the reoccurrence of heart trouble and people who didn't have the watch as Nag so I know that with a craze that happened in corporate America years ago with the Fitbit's where it became the thing that companies were handing out fit bits their employees to lower their health costs. It didn't work at all but for some reason the Kaiser thing with direct sharing of information has had a very positive effect not for everybody but overwhelmingly overall Elizabeth is with us on the Clark Howard. Show Hello Elizabeth. How you doing hi. I'm doing well. Thank you and thank you so much for taking my call. I have a lot of respect for your opinion so well thank you Elizabeth. I have a question that I've asked a number of people and finally I decided you're opinion mattered. The most so you are sweet to say that. But how do you know I'm not going to give you a lousy bit of advice? You know I've been listening to for long enough to know that I don't think that will happen. We'll do the best I can to serve. Okay thank you so much. I appreciate it so I own a home for twenty years and sold it and close just in December I was able to net seven hundred. Twenty seven thousand. No way no way. You've got like California Oregon or Washington California. How do you know southern California to make that kind of bank on the sale of a home? It had to be the I five corridor somewhere. You yes in Yup for sure. It sure is so One thing though. I exhausted my entire urgency find because I spent three plus months getting ready to list because I wanted to coming out the gate. I wanted to look good so I lost that however now I've got seven hundred twenty seven I had to pay and capital gains tax. Exactly exactly which I'm working on my quickbooks dot. Because over the twenty years. A lot of money was put into that house. And I'm GonNa make a suggestion to you. In the year you sell a house was stakes this high. Yeah I would like you to consider hiring. Cpa who does tax or an enrolled agent to tax hike APA per hide you somebody with wonderful credentials reminiscing. Yes at CPA. Plus so what I do. I put everything in quick books together. Ready for her. So yes So I moved into what had been rental. I done ten thirty one exchange five years ago and I wanted to down size so now I'm living in that I owe about three o five on there. I bought it for four seventy five and it's now worth about six fifty maybe more so you have a cold and touch the ZIP code for sure. Well I'm only one code away. I just moved about six miles away. Okay thankfully he would have been a rental is now my home and I the mortgage has four percent interest rate. So do I take three hundred thousand and pay off the mortgage or can I invested in? Make more than four percent. You know. There's peace of mind owning your home. Free and clear Skjei four percent is Gosh I would say that you I wait for the accountant to tell you how much you're actually going to have left after you pay tax on the money and if you've got a good chunk of emergency funds live mortgage debt free just own okay. And that's not I mean that's my opinion and and I'm just curious. How did others feel about it? Because you said you've got opinions all over the place boy I sure. Have you know people feel that way? Others say no four percents. You need to invest that money and it'll make more than that were we. Don't we don't know that investments are GONNA make Four percent plus the cost of inflation years coming forward at least in the short while with how much values of run up in the market. And you will have an amount of money every month that you would have been paying towards the mortgage. Why not that amount of money every month to invest and that would be so dollar cost averaging you're not having to figure out when the market's going to decide to go in the toilet and so you could invest going forward and small chunks and with your mortgage debt free. That sounds good because I did the math. And if I continue making the payments and choice in the year twenty forty five I will pay four hundred eighty thousand well but In what does that present value. It would not be is humongous as the three. Oh five seems but but I would I would if you clear a substantial amount of that seven hundred twenty seven thousand zero out that mortgage. No you don't ever have to make a mortgage payment again. If you don't want to have money you can invest every month. That seems to me like the right way to do this. Jeff joins us on the Clark. Howard Show Hi Jeff. Hey Craig. How's it going great? Thank you Jeff. You got a question about your kids. Tell me Yeah so. My parents are to the point and once they can start contributing some funds to my kids futures school admissions. Um that kind of stuff in the first thing that came to my mind was twenty nine account But my question is with a speech. Tax Deduction In Idaho for them be better then the the tax credit that we would in Utah will be used for benefit plan so the Utah plan is my favorite in America for five twenty nine plans and so I would. I would say that gives Utah a leg up now. The the Your parents giving money for your kids. In many states the tax deduction or tax credit may only apply to the parents of a child and not other relatives or friends. Giving money towards the child's five. Twenty nine are your parents willing to let you be the owner of the account. Yeah I mean I I. I do just to give us money to to put into an investment account. Perfect then you take the money that they're generous enough to give you and set up a Utah. Five twenty nine. For how many kids do you have? I have three. We would probably set up two accounts because the GATT before between the I two five years. Okay so you would want to cover the first kid and then roll it over to the second and then have a second one set up her kid to slash three. Okay actually set it up in the oldest and the middle child names and you can roll it down the hill is you need You said mission as well so they're going to go on a two year mission when they're nineteen yes sir all right so for that You could take some of the money that is coming from their grandparents and you could put it in an investment account for the kids and what I recommend for that. How old is the oldest nine? Okay this would work. And her case as well is to put it in fidelity investments and there's zero funds which have no cost no minimums. Nothing target no you know the Fidelity Zero Funds. They'll be index funds. Oh gotcha there's I think there's four. Different Zero funds should be great in a situation like this. It could harm them for financial aid down the road. And that's just a risk you have to weigh. Having investment money in a kid's name support for today's episode comes from Progressive Insurance Fun fact progressive customers qualify for an average of six discounts when they sign up for progressive insurance discounts for things like enrolling in automatic payments ensuring more than one car going paperless. And of course being a safe driver plus customers who bundled. They're also with home or add. Renter's insurance save an average of twelve percent on their auto. There are so many ways to save when you switch. And once you're a customer with progressive you get unmatched claim service with twenty four seven support online all by phone. It's no wonder that more than twenty million drivers trust progressive and that they've recently climbed to the third largest auto insurer in the country. Get a quote online at Progressive Dot Com in as little as five minutes. And see how much you could be. Saving Auto Insurance from Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates. Home and Renter's insurance not available in all states provided and serviced by affiliated and third party insurers discounts vary and are not available in all states and situations. It's time for Clark Dot com slash ask. That's where you post a question for me at KARK DOT COM SLASH. Ask and there are many ways. We answer those. If you want specifically to try to get to me to speak directly with you. Check the box for that. Otherwise one of the other ways we answer it this producer. Joel Ask your question for you Clark. Michael has a question he says. Clark I've been hearing ads for tax relief companies. Are they worth considering? No no no. And no these companies that advertise so heavily on the web on TV on radio wherever that say they're gonNa make all your tax troubles go away and they're going to settle your tax debt magically for pennies on the dollar but all you have to do is pay them hundreds or thousands of dollars up front. They are really telling a big fish story. It is not how the system works if you have a significant debt owed to either the irs or state taxing authorities. The right way to deal with it if it's a relatively wet People in the industry might consider to be a relatively modest amount. Which would be up 'til maybe twenty thousand dollars in enrolled agent may be the right place for you to go. That's a special category. A tax expert enrolled with the IRS. Or if it's more than twenty that's kind of a fuzzy limit you wanna go to a CPA who does tax. You'll have to pay either for their time. But that's the legit way to deal with an unpaid tax debt. I'm so glad you're with us here on the Clark Howard. Show where it's about your empowerment with knowledge. So you can keep more of what you make and so this show is different than most talk shows and that we're not about a political point of view or anything like that. We're all about sharing knowledge with each other learning from each other. And you expect me to do the best job possible and there are times the you'll hear me talk about something and you feel like what I can't believe. He just said that. So that's why I need your feedback please. If I let you down if I disappoint you take the time to go to Clark Dot Com Slash. Clark stinks imposed where you feel. I miss the mark and other people can read what you posted. They can comment on. It agree or disagree with you and then weekly Krista goes through your posts and shares her favorites with you right here on the show courage to speak which think. I'm pretty stupid yourself. Maybe maybe you're right all right. I haven't gotten to this one in a while so this is about the NFL little dated. Clark you forgot to mention something important to the woman that called in and asked about advice for attending a packers game in Green Bay. The fact is that it is better to go to a game. In September and October than late November December it can become so brutally cold that it can make the game not enjoyable especially for someone not used to the conditions or for children. My goal is to attend every NFL stadium and there are about. I'm about one third through and next year I'm also going to attend a game in lamp. Lambeau but for sure going in September October for more enjoyable experience. Ps Go jets. James James Thank you. That is a very good point that I neglected and I appreciate you sharing that and being a jets fan shows that hope springs eternal. It's been a long time since nineteen sixty nine Just a little difference. Recently you had a call from a retiree planning to become a snowbird for a couple of months. And they wanted to fly instead of driving to his destination and was looking for to rent a vehicle. While they're you gave him some good advice but failed to give him great advice. You should have suggested that. He reconsidered driving driving there in his own vehicle. He might save money overall and would be able to see him more areas of our beautiful country. That's what we do. And it's one of the advantages of being retired. We've seen some amazing parts of our country that way take our. We take our time and enjoy the scenery. Thanks Clark Larry Larry. Thank you and there are people who love doing what you did. I have a brother who many many times has driven from coast to coast. And that something that I've done once in my life and that was enough for me so it really depends on the individual. I think the other thing I forgot to mention in that particular call was the idea of using one of the car. Relocation services to there'd be cheaper to move your vehicle to Florida and back from Florida with one of the car services than it would be to rent a vehicle when you're in Florida for the longtime speaking of rentals a caller ask for advice about loaning a car to a friend for a month or two. Clark's recommendation was to waste time on the phone with the Insurance Company. Then give fifteen percent of the value of the car to the state and wait in line at the DMV. Twice that stinks. A better idea is to the car to the friend. On true to row provides great insurance in their fee will be approximately seven dollars a day on a twenty three dollar a day rental the money the owner gets can be gifted back to the fronter no change of ownership or waiting in lines. Thanks for all you do car. I've been listening for years in this. Little lapse is the only thing I've ever thought worthy of commenting on David. David I'd say that that was an omission on my part and that is a beautiful addition. You've given and I think that's really. A wonderful idea is a way to protect both parties. In the event your lending somebody your vehicle. If you're not aware of get around in Toronto they are virtual rental agencies for vehicles that lineup individuals looking to renovate dicle with people have a vehicle sitting idle in one. Rent it out get some income from it. Clark I love listening to your podcast but have to say your pronunciation of Hawaii smells like volcanic sulfur. I'll admit I have to admit how many posts wait. Wait I gotTA stop usually. How many pose over thirty three years is it thirty three years? Have we gotten about the way I say that state I won't even say right? I know many many okay so Byron goes on to say I have to admit I've never been to the islands. So that may very well be their preferred pronunciation but it sounds unnatural to my mainland ears. If you'd like to prove me wrong. Tickets and accommodations are welcome so I can investigate. That is brilliant so I have no free tickets to that state. Sorry Piran you can say either Hawaii or Hawaii okay. Speaking in travel I dear cork. I helped my poor law student law school student daughter. Save two hundred dollars for two one way tickets from Washington DC to Atlanta by using your hidden city. Ticketing Idea I. The first fights destiny was Miami she off in Atlanta and it worked great. The returning flight was from Atlanta to Chicago with a DC layover where she had planned to debord the problem at the gate on the return flight. They announced that all passengers in the last two boarding sections must check their carry on since there wasn't ample space in the overheads on the plane when she asked if the carry on would be sent to the final destination or she would have access to it in DC. The gate agent went slightly. Zirk saying did you purchase a ticket to Chicago. But you're planning to get off in DC. We'll sorry but your carry on. We'LL BE GOING TO CHICAGO. Just see you know. We have the right to cancel your flight right now since your intention was never to travel to Chicago Lisa and she tells the story Lisa. I am so sorry now there's Part of the advice that I have given in the past that I may have neglected to say when I was talking about hidden city ticketing and that is that you need to take on something that small enough that it will fit under the seat in front of you. If you need more luggage you need to ship with ups Fedex or the Postal Service Back to your destination because yes particularly if you have no status on an airline and you're flying on American united or Delta. They're going to take your bag away with near certainty to everybody without status will have their bags taken away and they will be checked your final destination and. I'm so sorry that this happened in a positive posted a negative post involving Credit Karma. I the stink of meter only registers one on this but why not recommend the Free Credit Karma facts tax filing option? I've been using their service for years with excellent results. It's super quick and easy frank in Ocala. Thank you frank and I I do mention Credit Karma tax every time I talk about free file the IRS program for people who make Will most taxpayers qualify for free file? But if you make more than that than Credit Karma tax is free to prepare and file both your federal and if you live in a state of the state income tax your state income taxes well Clark recently mentioned that Credit Karma had a savings account option and explain the great rates and insurance. The account offers would he failed to mention is that they do not offer a direct deposit option in that you have to link your Credit Karma count to a real bank account to facilitate the funds transfer also after signing up I had difficulty linking it to my count. Will you guessed it? They don't even offer customer no support. They re you to a website where submitted questions are not answered. No-one emails you back nothing. I suspect as a matter of time before Karma comes back to bite Credit Karma. Wow thank you for that post. I should say that it is common with the online banks that you do in fact link to your traditional bank or Credit Union account and you move money back and forth that way. And that's how they're all set up as the default way to deposit money although most will allow you to mail in a check to deposit into an account. I'm sorry that you got nothing but customer. No Service from Credit Karma. A few months ago you spoke with the caller about men's razor blades. Shaving you and he talked about double and triple stack blades. And where to shop for them? I use a safety razor and buy my blades and fifty pack. It's about five cents per blade. I also read one of your books way back when you said the blades don't go dull by shaving with them but by being left moist you recommended. Drying them with a hairdryer. I do just that with my safety. Razor it's super easy to do. I can go about two weeks or more before putting another five cent blade on my razor next time mentioned the drying trick when you talk about. Shaving razors. It really works James James. Thank you now. I'm too clumsy to use a safety razor. We've had a number of people it's like. There's a safety razor association. We got every time I talk about. Blades I get the posts from people. About the safety razors. I can't do that but yours last two weeks. What cow cleanly shaved? Look right now you can see how clean I mean. Come on Christy clean shaved face. Yup looks at the blade that I'm using goes back to the day My son started school last year. Which was the first week of August and it's still shaving close and clean and smooth. Whose slogan was from their Ad. Anyway it's working great and I should be able to get the whole school year out of one blade. I let me say I love your website and articles however there's one thing that seems to be missing from every article. I've ever read about spending managing on a budget. Depression shopping and spending excessively is often a byproduct of much deeper issue. I have bipolar disorder. So I know from personal experience a high or unbalanced mood slash emotions often results in reckless spending without regard to my carefully planned budget. I know your team is not made up of psychiatrists but depression is too often ignored. I just thought it might be helpful to remind readers to seek help if uncontrollable urges to spend are destroying their budgets and hopes of becoming debt. Free thanks for listening Kim. Kim I really appreciate you doing that. Post because depression is one of the most under reported illnesses that people have and it manifests in so many different ways by polar as well and people many times suffer in silence. And there's no reason for that today. There's so much help available there. Any of a number of medications. That can be helpful. And this can be expressed in many different versions. You talk about a compulsively shopping. Others will take up Alcohol or some form of illicit drugs. I mean this is one of society's largest unaddressed issues and I really appreciate you posting what you have experienced. We'll definitely address this on the site. That's definitely something we should do. So thank you so much Kim. Well I want to tell you that the purpose of Clark stinks is specifically to bring issues to the table. There things I've missed or when I've talked about something where I've had like a blind spot and that's a perfect example and I wanna thank everyone who takes the time to post. Because I want you to know that this show is about serving each other and I need to do the best job I possibly can and hearing from you when I have not given the full story give an incomplete answer or one that you feel missed. A key component helps everybody so much carey is with us on the Clark Howard. Show hi how are you hi Clark. How's it going wonderful? Thank you for taking my call. I had a question for you about selling rental properties. Well it's my pleasure to answer it. How how can I help you with that rental property so we bought a house back in July of two thousand thirteen? We moved in that month and we lived there Up until November of two thousand eighteen and starting like right at the first part of December That same year we had tenants move into that house and they've been there ever since and so what I was wondering is if we 'cause we would now like to sell that property If we go to sell it how do I deal with the the The capital gains taxes on that. Because I read where you can only if you live there for two years you don't have to pay them or there's some kind of a loophole with that. Can you clean for a job or so? Let me let me think through the formula because it was tightened up right. So we're going to math class here so you bought it in twenty thirteen. It became a rental property in December first of two thousand eighteen twenty eighteen. Then the tenants were there for less than two years. Yes all right so as long as you lived in the home. Four or tenants lived in the home less than two years. You're okay to be able to claim the homeowner deduction on that home. Oh Okay and so that we can still do that. Oh wait the whole time. It was a vacation home. No it's only only been rented just since December of two thousand eighteen before then. I never good. But now you're good in that case so there's an irs publication. I want you to go read. Read it when you if you drink coffee. You've had two cups of coffee when you read it. Do not read it at Bedtime. Unless you have insomnia will help you fall asleep okay but it will be. Irs Publication five twenty three. I have twenty three but my understanding if you rented it for less than two years of that seven year period. In this case you have a seven year period that you're able to exempt as a married couple the first five hundred thousand dollars in profit on the sale of that home. Oh perfect okay but I want you to. I want you to read through and make sure that you qualify on every ground. Okay I will thank you so I think I think you're good though in this case because you if you'd had them let's say you said to me you had rented out starting in. Twenty sixteen and then you sold in twenty twenty example. He would not be able to use the marital exclusion. Okay but in this case you should be a okay. But I don't want you take me as last word. Okay on the boring. Irs Publication. Okay sounds like a good read all. Irs Publications are good reads. Oh I got to tell you a funny story. I got a Elaine notice from the IRS. Saying that I had okay. This is unbelievable. Saying they were hitting me with a lien for eighteen unpaid sense of tax. I can't make this stuff up poor. Irs is so understaffed that crazy things like that can happen. You're listening to the Clark Howard show. Thanks for joining us today. The Clark Howard show is produced by Kim Droves Joe Wars Guard Debra Reese and GM shares and remember twenty four hours. A day. Where there to serve you Clark Dot Com and Clark deals dot.
Nature And The Coronavirus: As Humans Continue Lockdown, Wildlife Creeps Back In
"Thank you for listening to on point. We'd like to better understand who is listening. And how you're using podcasts. So please help us out by completing a short anonymous survey at NPR dot org slash podcast survey. That's one word. It takes less than ten minutes and it really helps support the show that's NPR dot org slash podcast survey and thanks from NPR and WB. You are Boston a Meghna Chucker. Bardy and this is on point for the past couple of weeks. What spin waking you up in the morning mornings mornings. The sound of airplanes wakes me up in the morning. Well lately The sound of birds wakes me up in the morning. It's wonderful. The flight situation isn't as bad as after nine eleven. Obviously but wow what a difference in fewer planes it's it's astounding. Let's marry from Columbia Maryland and Mary. Same here the birds of the ones waking me up in the morning these days. Mary is just one of the many many on point listeners. Who called us with stories about wildlife coming back into cities David from Worcester Massachusetts says he thinks a larger Predator has taken up residence near his home. We live on the outskirts by the woods. And last night we heard the blood-curdling calls of what was a kyle will a hybrid of a coyote and Wolf due to the fact that there was no full moon last night. My wife and eye ruled out the fact that it was a werewolf so Yeah that's keeping us up at night long with the virus and Joe from Monterey California wonders skunks have been skulking up our neighborhood more than usual here in Monterey California. I wonder if they have a way of knowing that we're stuck at home. So they have a bigger contact group than usual. All I'd be interested to know if there's an answer to this so many questions about the many many animal sightings people reporting in cities around the world. Now some of them that you've seen all social media are indeed fake but I do think there are more wildlife sightings in cities since humanity has had to stay indoors. So what is that telling us about our own fragile existences this hour on point we're GonNa talk about the pandemic from the Animal Kingdom's point of view and joining us to help us do that is David Baron. He's a journalist and broadcaster and author of the beast in the guard in a modern modern. Parable of man and nature and David joins us from Boulder Colorado. Welcome to the point David. Thanks Magna have you had any unusual wildlife sightings in your neighborhood. Well we had a cooper's hawk in our front yard just the other day eating songbird which is not that unusual but I would say what what I have noticed. More than anything is on my social media feeds here in. There are so many reports of mountain lions wandering town now mountain. Lions are very large cats as big as African leopards and they live on the outskirts of town and we know that they come into town on occasion but twenty years of living here. I've never seen so many reports of lions in the middle of the day wondering in the middle of town in groups of two or three like they own the place in groups of two or three in the middle of the day are these reports reliable David. Well when I first saw some of these videos I was a little sceptical myself but verified them. They're for real. And you know I think you had said at the top of the show that the animals in many cases of all have already been here. They've always been they've been here for some time and wildlife biologists who have tracked mountain lions with. Gps callers have found that they do come into town but we don't see them most of the time because they're coming in at night or they're hiding from cars and from people and what seems to be happening now. There aren't any cars or people to hide from. So they're now showing themselves more than they used to. This I think is one of the Is it the silver linings of what we're experiencing globally year that it takes so long? This is a historic event. Was about to say it takes a little for for the animal kingdom to make itself known again. That's not true because what we're experiencing is huge and many billions of people. Being under lockdown is a big deal but are you surprised by how quickly Animals felt safe enough to come back into cities in broad daylight. You know I was surprised at first but then the more I thought about it the more I realize it's not a surprise. Because if you WANNA see wildlife in the forest you go out and do a forest in with an ATV or you go out with a group of friends and you're all chatting really loud wandering through the forest. You're not going to see anything that doesn't mean the animals aren't there it's that they're they're hiding from you but as soon as you if you go into a forest and you sit still for a half hour or you hide in a duck blind. That's when you'll see the animals and so I think what's happened is the animals have been here but they know stay away from us and as soon as we're hiding inside like we're in that hunting blind then. They allow us to see them. Well we got so many calls David from listeners who wanted to share their sightings with us. This is Claire. From Orange Massachusetts. And she says she and her husband have noticed traces of animal activity. We've been seeing bears walking down the middle of the street rather than off in the woods and Also there are so many bunny rabbits in my yard that I can't even believe that there's heard though so they're fun to look at and My dog likes to launch their droppings. Though she's happy to clear an and a half and a happy dog in Orange Massachusetts. Then there's Terry who called us from Bowling Green Kentucky and Terry says he and his wife see quite a bit of wildlife but since the quarantine they've been seeing even more just today we're were sitting in the study looking out the window and all of a sudden there's a big wild Turkey looking back at us and we've seen him out. There are property before but never quite that close to the to the house and right up there looking in the window. Like you know how you doing there. You do pretty cool Terry. What's it like being trapped inside? I wonder if the Turkeys are wondering that about us now but even what is all this telling us. Well I think so as I said I think part of what's going on is the animals are kind of feeling more comfortable as hiding inside but part of it too is. We're noticing it more. And we're sharing these stories more and I think that speaks more to our own psychology that in a time like this of course when we're all feeling vulnerable and when it when this all started it really felt I mean for for me personally. Like the entire world was falling. Apart like who knew it felt apocalyptic and so to see the animals thriving gives a sense of continuance that even in the worst case scenario nature will continue So I think that's it. It does add a sense of comfort to see The flowers coming up and to see the to hear the birds singing and so I think we're all sharing those stories and you know these are these videos of like those those goats in Wales Have just gone viral because you know they bring some joy to us in these in these dark times that delight enjoy in nature that maybe too many of us had forgotten about is something I want to dig into a little bit. David Hang on for just a moment because now joining us is Alan Weisman. He's a senior producer for homeland. Homelands productions on award winning journalist and author of the world without us and we have an excerpt of Allen's book at One Point Radio Dot Org Alan. Welcome to point all right very good. So what do you think about the fact that there have been so many more animal sightings in populated areas? Well I don't disagree with anything that David said Great to be on a program with David it's such a great reporter I think what's really interesting to me is how much people are realizing that. They've missed this There's something very touching him either. You you mentioned some of the phony stuff that circulating on the Internet such as the dolphins and Venice's canals. Which were really actually an import In Sicily There's another one that I've seen that shows kangaroos through Australia and Streets and rhinos and Nepali streets and Lions all away from boulder down to Patagonia. All these different places is very hard to tell from this pastiche when this thing was actually filmed if they put together old footage but the point is people really want this to be true. They're very very You know somehow emotionally connected to the idea that you know we really have this all around us and I think that's because when you think of what human nature is its nature. We come from nature. It's only been really very recently in our evolutionary history that we set up walls between us and the rest of nature and part of just longs to be back in the thing that the pandemic is reminding us. Is that no matter how high those walls are. We are still of nature right because the virus itself came from somewhere And it is out of our control and do you think that that reminder of being intrinsically linked to nature no matter how hard we try to control it no matter how far we push it back that reminder was long overdue yeah I do think so. nature ultimately is going to win the battle Every species eventually goes extinct just the same way that everybody dies and I remember when I wrote the world without as Spending a day roaming around New York with a guy who's in charge of three of the biggest British bridges that link the mainland to Manhattan and he says you know that every time he turns around. Some bird has flown over the George Washington Bridge and Excreted a seed that comes of course with its own fertilizer and a wedges in between The joint of two inch thick steel plates. And the next thing he knows is that I'm trees roots at during the bridge apart He said we are in a constant battle against nature. Nature will ultimately win. His hope. Was THAT. It wasn't going to happen on his watch. Any of us. Who Own homes that you turn your back and suddenly nature in the form of insects or moulds or sometimes small mammals are invading your space and yeah this is this is something that is always there We have unbalanced relationship with nature. And we come to see it as something that's attacking us Probably nature fills attacked by ass but ultimately I think the goal. I hope we get this out of this plan. Democ is that maybe we have to achieve some sort of balance. Well Alan Weisman and David Baron standby for just a moment. There's so much more to talk about about nature and animals and what we're seeing as humanity has had to take a step back so we'll get to all that when we come back. This is on point one. Add more positively to your podcast feed checkout kind world stories of extraordinary kindness and compassion. That's kind world. Subscribe now on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen this is on point Magneto Birdie. That is the sound of the House of a coyote. Visited one of our producers on point producer. Tim's Googles Yard for about a week recently and. Tim told us that he could see the coyote at the edge of the garden. Where would rest a bit before sitting up to Howl and this is the recording that Tim got of the Coyote the last night it showed up. Amazing amazing okay. So devoted listener Keith. From Pleasant Ridge Michigan also had a coyote sighting of his own at eighty. Am yesterday morning outside my kitchen window which faces my wooded backyard. I observed scruffy Bache dog the size of a medium German shepherd which had two inch. Long Asia mangy hair. The dog was steadily advancing out from my backyard and down the driveway. I thought that's there's a leash law. You must have gotten out. But then I realized this was a wild coyote on the prowl for his next meal as Keith from Pleasant Ridge Michigan and we are talking this hour about the increased wildlife sightings in human areas in urban areas and even suburban areas wherever human beings for right now have had to actually take a step back. Animals are coming in. And I'm joined today by Alan Weisman and David Barron and with us now from Irvine California is naive. Quin NIEVE is the Human Wildlife Interactions Advisor at the University of California Cooperatives South Coast Research and Extension Center. Nieve quin welcome to you. Hey Mike Hayden I'm doing well. So you study rats and coyotes in Southern California. And you have a collaring program for for coyotes. There we do. We currently have an five coyotes colored here in Los Angeles County. We'd like a lot more but it may not be a surprise to your listeners that it's hard to social distance and track on wrestle. Live coyotes indeed. So you've paused the calling program for now. Yeah we fought for dial but that doesn't mean that we still can't see what's going on. What are coyotes in southern California Gps colored and we can actually see their activity and over the last few months in an even know during the lockdown. Okay so have you seen a change in in where they're going and and their activities so initially we didn't really see a change at all. Everybody seemed to be behaving themselves. And I feel like an anxious mother. Every day I wake up to check in and make sure that they're still alive and they haven't been hit by a car or something like that. We have no is that we have three males. Collared in two females and we have noticed stash are two females seemed to be an restricting their range slightly so there were homemade seems to be smaller but their use of the habitat hasn't really changed that much so they're still hanging around in urban areas. Also enlarge open green spaces here in southern California. It's not unusual to have coyotes all over the urban environment. I mean we have had coyotes come into dougie doors in southern California so that doesn't have to be a lockdown for them to invite themselves into our homes are the. I wonder if they'll be more willing to do that. That you might see a behavior change over time. It's hard to know you know am wildlife is very very adaptable and some adapts. More quickly than others so probably smaller wildlife things like rats mice those are probably the ones short generational times. They're probably that would adapt their behavior. May Be a slightly quicker than are larger and larger predators. Like meant lines are coyotes. They're kind of more like you might see them by chance. I think the one thing magna that's happened here is that human behavior has changed substantially. Am I know me? I don't spend three hours on the freeway anymore. So I get to know is a lot more indoor on my own backyard and my own neighborhood. But you know these coyotes they they just take a chance if they can. We already know here in southern California. Coyotes are part of our urban life. They're here they've been here for quite a while and they eat are pets. In fact cats are one of the most commonly consumed Mammalian prey items for coach and so the California House. Cats has cats. Yeah how how many house or how? How much of a of a of a southern Californian coyotes diet is made up of cat? Well let's just say that. More than one in five coyotes that come into our lab have evidence of domestic cash and sometimes it's not just physical evidence sometimes we have to go as far as DNA evidence and because you know things. Coyote is not the cleanest of okay. Well what I wonder is because we were talking about increased sightings in part because maybe sort of the oppression of humanity in these large urban areas is receding for the time being and so animals are might be coming back in but also as you were saying. People aren't living their normal lives so they have the opportunity to just observe the world around them a bit more. Are you actually concerned that we could have an increase in wildlife human interactions? Which could actually not be for the better. I mean I think everybody has to remember Magna that we're in this situation because of a wildlife disease and one of the scary things about wildlife sometimes is that we don't know what kinds of diseases we have. They have or how they interact so for example like a coyote in southern. California might all might not always interact with a person but they spend a lot of time in areas. That may be our pets. Do and you know then we spend a Lotta time with our pets. And yes there could be spillover and there's always the potential for spillover. I'm so when it's great that we can all at least maybe notice more wildlife if not if it's not actually more wildlife. It's great that we can enjoyable should always enjoy it from a distance and remember that well if is wildlife and it's very very important to keep wildlife live while we shouldn't really be encouraging it to come closer to us and what we should be able to enjoy it at least from a distance. We don't want any zoonoses to spill over an excellent wildlife in your yard. You know you don't really want why life interacting with things in your yard like you're the food you grow the lawn you sit on. It's great to have it there but every you know every why life has a disease right well David Baron. I've gotTA turn back to you on this. Because he wrote a whole book about this. Your book the beast in the garden of modern parable of of man and nature just reflect on what Nieve is saying here that They've as you were saying earlier that they've they've always been there. And what does it tell us about? How urban wildlife has adapted so well to living in a human built environment right? Well I I guess I would back off on saying that. The animals have always been here but they've been here now for several decades because this is really a story. That's unappreciated. I think by most Americans that the story of wildlife in America over the last century is a very positive story. We have seen a tremendous resurgence of many wild wildlife species. In the last hundred years there are probably more white tailed deer in America today than there were when the pilgrims first landed here there are probably as many mountain lions in the western United States. Today as there were when Lewis and Clark went through the region this is because one hundred years ago we had unregulated hunting of all sorts of wildlife species and are large predators are wolves are bears or mountain lines. They were bounty predators. It was it was government policy to exterminate those animals but for the last at least fifty years now. These animals have had various degrees protection. They've been coming back. What has also happened is we have now created an environment in our suburbs and even parts of our cities that are really attractive to the animals. The animals are moving into our backyards. Not because they don't have someplace else to go in many cases but because they would rather be in our backyards because they'll find garbage and they'll find dog food and the bears will get into our bird feeders and they'll find our house cats that we've let outside and they'll start eating them and we are. We are enticing. The animals in so to get back to your point. I mean my book about about what happened with mountain lions here in Colorado eventually leading to the first fatal mountain line attack in Colorado history. An eighteen year old high school student killed behind his high school by a mountain lion. In the middle of the day I think can be traced to what we saw about this unnatural environment where we have attracted the animals in and taught them. It's okay to be around us. Come on in. This is where you'll find food and so we need. This is a chance for us to realize that our behavior affects the wildlife around us. Yes it's wonderful to see. Abundant wildlife but as as Neva saying. We don't really want them to get too comfortable in our backyards. It would be much better. I think for the animals to have some respect for us for us to have respect for the animals where they're a little wary of us and we're a little weary of them and that will help with coexistence nieve. Do you think that will happen on? Its own that slight mutual wariness as soon as things. Start unwinding from lockdown. I don't know it's for coyotes. For example coyotes at least until than California. A lot of them don't even seem to be afraid of humans. And they're almost nonchalant. I am you know. We've had a few people bitten by coyotes in southern California over the past few years and it just seems coyotes may even be bold 'em and that might just be their behavior and so as part of our experiment. We're trying to see if we can hayes cuties and change their behavior. I got sounds like we're going to give them a lot of beer and make them run around in circles but really what we're going to try and do is try and scare the coyotes away from urban environments and to see if we can like stop them almost interacting with people in pets now a a great solution for people keep their pets inside and but you know people walk. Their dogs and people are people. But we're trying to see if we can change their behavior. But like I said before P Y. For so adaptable and willing to take chances. Sometimes and for food unlike David mentioned there's huge amounts of resources in our backyard that we like to enjoy and wildlife also likes to enjoy that. That's not going to go away. We'll leave Quinn is human. Wildlife Interactions Advisor. The University of California Cooperatives South Coast Research and tension center beef. Thank you so much for joining us today. Well we got another call about this issue from a non-point listener. This is Dakota an animal services. Deputy in Durham North. Carolina and Dakota told us what she's observed during the pandemic we have definitely seen an increase in our call volume in relation to interactions with wildlife because of covert more people are home and they're actually seeing animals that they're not used to seeing or that they've never seen before and weren't aware actually live in their neighborhoods so we have spent a fair amount of time. Educating People About Wildlife Behavior Wildlife Habits and we've also seen an increase in wildlife interactions simply due to development and the wildlife habitat being destroyed as well so we work closely with people to help them coexist. Alan Weisman. I wonder if you think that we're at risk of over romanticizing. This moment that we're also seeing you know as David and we've been talking about About the relationship between animals and especially urban dwellers which may not actually be so positive. Do we want animals to have gotten used to eating the food waste from restaurants and so used to it in fact that now that that may be food? Waste has gone down dramatically. The animals are coming out in the open looking for it. You know. I'm not that scared about us over. Romanticizing it because frankly we have lost so much of our sense of the romance of nature. I in the past. We you know we spend much of our lives sitting in front of a flat. Rectangles that glow at US and sometimes show is lovely scenes of nature. And that's about as close as we get to it. I think that the interactions that we're having right now ultimately are far more positive. Because you know as David has pointed out. These animals have been around for a long time for many decades. They have been furtively going into our garbage cans and doing away with pets and all those kinds of things. They're they're now we're just noticing them. More I you know I live in. I am out in the country. I'm surrounded by woods but I am quite grateful to see coyotes coming around because they are eating mice and the white footed mice out. Here are the prime vectors of Deer tics they're actually where the deer ticks. Get the lime disease so you know. There are many many stories in the history of ecology where we try to do away with something that we think is damaging us and it turns out that that wasn't a good idea. I mean one of the most famous ones is in China when they were growing all this grain to try to get out of famine that they were in and Chairman Mile. Got The idea that sparrows were eating the grain so they had people out in the streets of all the cities banging hands constantly so sparrows would finally get exhausted And they would literally fall from the trees and they almost did away with a sparrow population in China. And then suddenly they had a huge huge hordes of locust attacking those same grains Not Realizing the Spiro was what was eating those locusts before keeping it in control so but I I frankly welcomed the wildlife. It does more It helps us more than it harms us. We can't live in a world without animals. You know no one knew that in the Bible. That's why he saves them. David What do you think? Oh I mean look I love having the animals or even the mountain lions I am far more afraid of the corona virus than have of mountain lions wandering the streets. I do think we there is a dangerous sometimes of over romanticizing of seeing wild animals almost like there are pets and being a little too nice to them but as exactly I agree with Allen that psychically we need you know. This is so helpful to us to feel connected to nature and having a deer in my backyard. If it ends up eating my garden I might be a little upset at it. but You know it definitely makes me feel connected to the natural world and I think we need that more now probably than any other time connected and possibly humbling as well David. Oh Yeah. And I've been Allen's brilliant book I've been thinking about a lot in these times that You know I think it's really I. Just maybe it says a lot about me. I think. Humility is really important in terms of just getting through life not And I think that doesn't just apply to an individual but to us as a species. You know If we've vanished tomorrow life will go on and that is both a sad thing and actually a very uplifting thing to know that You know we're here for a limited time as individuals and as a species Allen said but it's not about us life life writ large will continue and I think that's a very comforting and important thing to remember. Well we are talking this hour about what all those animal sightings increased numbers of animals sightings in human built areas. And what that's telling us about actually about humanity and nature Writ Large David Baron and Alan Weisman or joining me today to talk about it. We'll have a lot more than we come back. This is on point a need to escape the news for a moment checkout endless thread a podcast from wb you are and read it from mysteries to histories two stories. That will you of our shared humanity. Subscribe to endless thread on Apple podcasts. Or WHEREVER YOU LISTEN. This is on point. I'm Meghna Chakrabarti tomorrow on the show by the way what days tomorrow Wednesday Thursday. I mean I actually just can't remember because I'm literally asking myself that same question all the time. This pandemic has really warped our sense of time. How we market how we measure it as well and that is what we will be talking about on the show tomorrow so we WANNA know if time is dragging on more slowly free you has your feeling of how time passes changed since the start of this pandemic call us at six one seven three five three zero six eight three that six one seven three five three zero six eight three because we will be talking about the physiology and physics of time on the show tomorrow. Today we're talking about the resurgence or the the surge of animal sightings in cities around the world as human beings have had to wait in the wings in rows giving us giving animals the space they wanted for some time. We got a lot of callers sharing stories with us about this. Here's Jenny who called us from coastal Washington State. I went ocean shores about twenty miles away the other day to deliver a piece of art and we had a little traffic jam there because there were four young deer standing in the middle of the road acting like that was their territory and it took a guy getting out of the car running after them and yelling and they got out of the way but in ocean shores. You would see deer but never just standing around BS and in the middle of the road like that and it was pretty funny. That's Jenny from Washington state. And here's Shiloh from dewitt New York near Syracuse with this animal citing. Now I am about a half a mile from an all the and and so surprised to see So much more wildlife since People are retreating to their homes We've seen groundhogs and rabbits and Robbins and Yesterday I saw right Fiery Orange Red Fox and that was just a sight to see such beauty. Let's Shiloh from dewitt New York now David Baron and Alan Weisman. I WANNA spend the La- this last portion of of the show today talking with you about the lessons that we ought to carry forward from this moment and I think one of them is. It's a strange irony that as we're talking actually about the Brazilians or adaptability of animals when human beings encroach into their space. We're talking about that because we're seeing ample evidence of our own fragility Alan. And so how do we? How do we take that lesson forward because once covert nineteen recedes? I don't know when that's going to be but hopefully it'll be sometime soon and humanity gets a hold of that problem. There are still other major issues about how we interact. How we treat nature that will be with US couple of responses Two lessons is don't feed wildlife. They come around observed them. But they'll figure out how to eat if you feed them too much sometimes they're going to get closer than you want. Second don't eat wildlife That wet market in. We'll hon has been in other wet. Markets like it in China have been the sources of Corona viruses that we have had to deal with in the past few decades now as explained recently in an article that I wrote for the Boston Globe magazine. I think it's on your website There's a reason why China Chinese eat so many things they suffer through an enormous famine only sixty years ago more than forty million people died and they've had them before in their history and You know any of us would eat everything we could get our hands on as well but the important thing that we need to know coming forward is we do need nature. We call evolved with nature. We can't really live in an artificial environment. And we have been perpetrating a major extinction events. Something that only geologic forces have done before in the history of this planet if we lose a million species between now and ten years from now as is feared due to the way that we have forced the temperature up and up on this planet then we may be losing something that is necessary to our own existence and nature is so complex. There's so many variables in that. We won't know what those essential species are survival until it's too late so I think that we need to start really trying to preserve spaces and corridors between great wilderness spaces so wildlife. Can you know exist? David What do you think? Oh I agree. With what Allen's saying I would add though that I think part of what we're learning. I hope we'll be remembered is just the extent to which we have these animals around us all the time. I mean right now. We're looking at the environment kind of with x ray glasses. We're seeing what has been there but has largely been hidden and when we all come back out and rush hour resumes and and the streets are busy again and the animals go into hiding. That doesn't mean they're gone. They're still there and we should remember that that our behavior affects the animals that are around us all the time and that means be very responsible in terms of not attracting animals in in a way that could harm them. You know here in Boulder where we have bears that can come into town. In many parts of town you're required to have bear proof trash cans and and I think more cities should do that. We should make sure that the bears don't get into our trash if you're in bear. Country don't feed birds Don't put out a hummingbird feeder. The bears love that and attracting a bear in in the end could make that bear much too comfortable among humans and could end up with that bear being removed from the population so cats. I know some people feel it's cruel to keep their cats inside but my goodness having an outdoor cat has huge effects on the environment. And in fact your cat could end up becoming a meal for a coyote which is certainly not good for the cat and frankly. I don't think it's good for the coyote either to start getting so comfortable coming around people so keep that in mind so I think for for your local environment. That's one that's one lesson but I certainly agree with Alan that we hopefully people will remember That we are part of everything we do is part of a much larger global environment and I hope that We will get more serious about dealing with climate change and realizing how quickly everything can fall apart. And that's certainly one lesson of the corona virus. Yeah so I wonder writ large what lesson we can draw from the fact that Allen you wrote about this in your in that Boston Globe magazine piece. You're talking about that. Because of the food revolution the industrial revolution the medical revolution. We've got This ongoing surge in human population and therefore the demands that we're putting on planet earth including needing land for food production and further pushing into wild territories. So if we're going to balance that if we're going to honestly look at like what does resilience look like in humanity's relationship with the wild? Wh What what does that mean? What resilience look like in that context? Well an uncomfortable topic that my research for the world without is raise because I wrote that book really because I wanted a world with us and I wanted to see you know by removing from the planet and theoretically and then watching. Her nature bounces back so beautifully. I hope that people would figure. Okay so how do we add ourselves back to this picture? Only in a nicer relationship with the rest of nature but it turns out that I discovered that about every four days. We're adding a million more people to the planet and that clearly is not sustainable so my subsequent book countdown Was TO UNDERSTAND. Like how many people can this planet hold without tipping over? It turns out that in a so single century we quadrupled nothing like that has ever happened with a large animal before in the history of biology and it happened for a couple of reasons. It seemed really good. At the time we learn how you know modern medicine which increased our lifespan and lowered insert mortality. And nobody really object to that including me but the other is that we learned how to grow much more food than nature ever could mostly with synthetic nitrogen fertilizer which we can pull endlessly from the air right now and then the green revolution many more grains per stock What happened then is that we didn't have famines and people survive to have more children that CETERA. And that's how we quadrupled. And this is an imbalance. One way or another nature is not going to let us maintain this imbalance we are. There's so many of us and we're so crowded that pandemics which have always happened will pass faster through us and we're pushing farther into wildlife territory. Nearly half the planet now is devoted to either growing or grazing our food or places where we live and we come in contact with animals. That as David pointed out are GonNa keep passing these things to us and it is seventy five percent of the infectious diseases. Just this century was or not so. I think the best thing that we can be doing gradually bringing our population down. Fortunately that long book on that I wrote about how we do that turns out. The best contraceptive is educating females. Rich country poor country no matter what religion you get a girl through secondary school and on the average are going to have fewer than two children. there's big discussion you know. What about male responsibility and of course? That's important that educated women help a lot of them all around US help raise male consciousness to me too is proving that well Alan Weisman is senior producer for homeland. Productions is an award winning journalist as well an author of the world without us. Allan thank you so much for joining us. Today it's been a pleasure and David Baron also an award winning journalist and broadcaster and author of the beast in the garden modern parable of man and nature. David thank you so much for being with us thanks magnet it was fun. And by the way we've got excerpts of both David's and Allen's books on Point Radio Dot Org you know we've been talking this hour about how all these increased animal sightings are making us. Think more about what a healthful balance with nature is. Well just think about what? The animals that are in. Zoos might be experiencing right now for example at zoo in Tennessee. It's gotten a lot quieter there because well the humans aren't there anymore due to cove in nineteen it's normally bustling with staff guests. Zoos now virtually deserted so zookeepers can go on long stretches without talking to another person due to physical distance thing but the animals well. Some of those animals like the zoo's endangered red. Pandas are just getting on with it. The pandas are living their best. Life they are quite content to continues the majority of their day napping and snacking which is pretty much what they did even when surrounded with throngs of admirers. They are doing quite well because they're not as social being. We're really just butlers for them. They appreciate US coming in and feeding them and cleaning them and then getting out letting him live their lives. And that's okay. That's the way they are designed to be well. Sarah Glass is zoo. Knoxville's curator of Red Pandas. We also talked with a couple of her fellow zookeepers to learn about how some of the other animals who are designed to need more socializing. How they've been doing. My name is heather debord and keeper of Herpetology at Zoo Knoxville. Herpetology is the study of creepy crawly. Things we can't just say it's a reptile department because we have more than just snakes and lizards and turtles and tortoises. We have amphibians as well. I have a giant tortoise that I take care of his name is big L. and he's been at the zoo since nineteen seventy four. I met big out on a class field trip when I was in the first grade and fell in love with him then because he was putting his feet up on the the wooden posts in stretching his neck out so that people could scratches head. How do you not love them? And he weighs about a quarter ton and would like to be a lap tortoise. He's a social butterfly. He does a lot of people watching and normally. He has several volunteers that come in during meek and take care of just and they spend time with him. They talked to him read to him. You know keep him. Company Pat Him and he hasn't had that and so he has been right up under me every time. I've been down in the greenhouse. I'm spending extra time down in the greenhouse him doing some training because it's just as important to take care of their mental health as it is their physical health rhinos. Actually my ultimate favorite. My name is Melissa. Mcghee an eye mammals curator. Currently I take care of to Geriatrics females. They are actually turning fifty two this month which is really rare. Usually they only live about forty years. Dolly and Paulie shot up to them. They are my my ultimate favorite. But don't tell anybody ever animals I have gorillas chimps I WANNA my teams and they are very social animals. They have drastically changed as far as they loved. People Watch them very social So not having the guests there to watch and interact with them at the viewing glass areas. That's been a very big change very very different adjustment for them. We've been requesting that the teams that take care of the ambassador. Animals can kind of walk them up to the areas and visit with the the glass. And so that's been really fun to see. You know a porcupine go on the walls or pig on watt and they go up and visit the chimps gorillas and the animals are getting a little bit of excitement that way when they're still missing their guests. That's Melissa mcghee. Mammals curator at zoo Knoxville in Tennessee. We also heard from Heather Debord who looks after the Herpetology Department and Sarah Glass curator of Red Pandas Zoo. Knoxville is currently closed due to the crew and virus pandemic but they hope to reopen soon to visitors. Maybe even in May on point is produced by Anna Bauman Melissa. Egan Eileen Imada Britney Knots Stefanik sonus West Martin Hillary mcquilken James. Ross Dory Chamoun Tim Skog Grace Tattered Adam Waller and Sydney wartime with help from Liam knocks I- Meghna Chakrabarti. This is on point.
VS x Poetry Magazine Podcast Live in Portland with Eloisa Amezcua and Brenda Shaughnessy!
"She's the boom boom boom now and they're extremely cute an incredibly thick dennis smith thank you and you're listening to versus the potty poets confront the ideas that move them brought to you by the poetry foundation and post loudness pay all. We're really excited to bring you. This very special live episode of versus. <hes> this one is even more very special because it is a cross over episode with the poetry magazine podcast featuring extra special guest host lindsay carpet living is the associate editor of poetry magazine and please make sure to stop buying listen to their podcasts as well. This was recorded at pair gallery portland as part of a._d._p. V._p. with extra extra extra extra special guest british shaughnessy and louisa amezcua so please sit back relax imagine that you were at a huge huge writer conference and in the room with us and enjoy this really good live show. It's actually really yes so good. We high five after we definitely did i five after it was like a special sex. You know when you when you achieve a new level insects and then you high five totally special crossover episode with the poetry magazine podcast live from a._d._p. Twenty nineteen eighteen and portland <music>. How're you doing tonight in enid donut. If you said no. Why didn't hate yourself donuts. They're covered in fucking like captain crunch and shit like that like it's portland. Should it'd be high already have doughnut or two. We are really really excited to be here. Hosting the first versus poetry magazine crossover over episode. It's like one of those superhero shows where they then all talk to each other across as a special night for all of us. They're paying us ten dollars dollars per minute that we talk it's great. It's a great setup. We are really really excited to welcome our special. You listen usually. I'm the one that's spins spins off into nonsense and vanezis like we should pivot. Don't you trading places tonight. It continue moving on. We should invite of our very special co-host evening. She is the associate editor for poetry magazine. The inimitable lindsey garbage makes <music> teams the stripe look at this take picture it will last forever how how you doing lindsey good. I feel like we're like backup singers right here ooh for just for like poetry. It's just like harry munro the ghost of sinn you're right here. You you know ruth lilly shower your bussing thank you. How's it gone lindsey house. You're good <hes> good. I'm running on pure adrenaline right now but it feels great so glad to be here with you. Both all thank you all for coming at you at ten pm midnight. This is kind of nice because it's like the meeting of all the poetry foundation podcast right now right like we hold all the audio. What is maybe the weirdest thing for you. You've be doing this a little longer than us about hosting poetry podcast ooh the weirdest thing well. I mean the most amazing thing that's another word for. We're go so what sucks lindsey <hes> <hes> so. I love when we can hear someone recording in their own home and so you can often here. I think it was mary bruce who had a pet bird. That was like number courting. I think so look for that and the archive but <hes> so that's like the weirdest thing is when we hear like somebody's pet obviously trying to steal some of the light. I think the weirdest moments from for me sometimes are when i love poem so much. I don't really have anything to say about so. I'm like really struggling to like participate in the conversation. Does that happen to you. Guys this happened recently and recording session where diana coin win read a poem and then we will just like and then and we had no podcast anymore yeah. We feel like those moments like. I'm like the very supportive but unhelpful person in your m._f._a. Workshop yeah that was great. Gobi famous yeah. That's the magic of editing. I take that long little segment you. Have you think that we talk like some nonsense you here. We cut out who we'd be. Cancelled may be cancelled. You cancel fan unified. You'd win your district and i would probably <music>. Ask voodoo donuts for a job not that not a bad life. I wanted to ask you a question simon. Ooh i was wondering how you doing. The podcast together has affected your sort of orbit together like do you feel like it's brought you closer. Has it affected your friendship your palm <hes> oh yeah. We're definitely not friends anymore. Hey this. I mean it's made us closer for sure i mean i mean we live in different cities. We've always lived in different cities except for a brief weird few months where we overlapped in ann arbor michigan next fall the but this is the way that i like to have friendships happen in my life is by like sitting in a room together and like nerd out about stuff and making weird jokes and so like for me to be able to count that as a professional our. It's like pretty wildly great. You know gives me a pro. Excuse to become uh-huh always liked about my friendship afraid. Is that like we have like different. Zodiac charts were very different. People are very different poems but we're also very different for an look interviewers and thinkers and we'll address it in conversation and it's been fun to sort of feel us moving towards new and previously unimagined middle and little my little as we come along at home now think something if i might preparing for an interview that we're about to do and i'm just like we thought like this is weird to say yeah yeah yeah so it's so it's nice to feel like as a person who has always been like in the choi fan club. It's nice to feel like hard hard rubbing off on me. You know i'd like to volunteer secretary and treasurer as well we're not none of us are a good number. So does it ever feel weird lindsey to be like letting other people in on the editorial process of how oh you all think about these poems. No i feel like actually the podcast gives don christina and i for those who've listened it's with dawn and christina and and a few poets from the magazine so they'll read their palm and then we kind of discuss it. I feel like it's a nice time that we have dedicated to talking about the poems because a lot of the time christine is not in the office d'armes arms somewhere doing something and so we're all kind of corresponding remotely about submissions and things like that and so to all be in the same room to talk about onze as a really lovely thing and i'm happy that people are even interested in listening to such a nice companionship to have somebody like talking in your ear like really in depth about a poem mike them so as another question somebody who is. Let's say allergic to the slush pile medical to iraq cool. Let's see if i can make this a harry potter metaphor. There are like so many poems that are asking to come to hogwarts school of poetry. We take a chance to interview don chair and he was talking about how it's like. What was it like one hundred and fifty thousand homes a year that are coming in so somebody pumps come then you sent the letters out to be like hello you are welcome to our visiting school hours to go out. How does the process of sorting had happened right. All all the poems have been accepted and then place it upon its head and it was like march. He saw harry harry potter a. now. Can we give it up for a very potter and i've been waiting three seasons to be the one who introduced harry harry potter is always on able forever think of this now we like it in front of a picture period yeah yeah i mean it kind of varies for every issue so sometimes we plan out a certain segment of the issue way in advance but we're constantly reading submissions twenty four seven and so sometimes we get home in this poem. We'll go perfectly in what we already have decided or we love this poem and we'll find a place for it and it doesn't end up coming out for another nine months ten months something like that so it's basically hollywood email don and be like we need need june copy today man don kind of goes into his office with all his papers of all the poems we've accepted just looks at them all and like sometimes i see him in the a conference room like arranging things you know but a lot of it's also decided by things like page count and boring stuff so it is like a magical process. I would say <music> but there's no one solution. No one hat telling us what to deal. That's done. Is that aw you remembered no other sentence tonight. The sorting hat is like a good one word next year. Bring br i yet for the evening. She is the author of from the inside quietly on shelter belt press. It is the founding editor in chief of from shallow ends and the founder of dora creative creative which allows me to go to places on planes and shit give it up for louisa the last national poetry man i think actually actually it was friday tricked me into thirty thirty of sonnets and i constantly have to like tricked myself into writing poems and so i was like this is great sonnets i gave them all the same title and lindsey and holly and dawn were kind enough to publish one so i haven't masturbated in five days for fear of crying because we know distance too well because the blood bank didn't have enough blood for nanna and her new knee because i see your car no a car like yours parked across the street from my apartment because the same night awaits us all because because arizona and the drought i was seven when it started because nanna used to sleep with a belt tied around her waist so tight to wake like an hour glass us because i weighed on you because i want to know the antonyms to every word because we speak to each other in our sleep because i do oh my best thinking in the shower so i take long showers because you kissed the parts of my body i hate most because you can love someone on and not remember their birthday because sometimes i want the wind and it is impossible because from the airplane i could see both the oceans and where they met biggest everybody yeah some of you will soon be writing poems cod. I haven't masturbated in five days for fear of waking up my roommate. I lived by myself. Gosh you know he only person being woken up with my my my soul and and sometimes still maybe not ready so i want to jump in with a question about your poem. I want to ask about the nanna in this poem when she always there or was she in addition to the sort of you. That's in the poem mm-hmm yeah so lineage is very important to me. In my first book is really really centered around my mother and distancing myself from that i sort sort of came to like think of my nanna actually fell and broke her knee in mexico and you know we think we have our blood banks shortages in mexico. It's even worse and like a few days before i wrote that i got a call from my mom saying that the blood bank didn't have blood for an an anna. Can i talk about illegal things my dad my cousin had to like go to a blood bank in a different state in mexico and pick up blood and transported across state lines i like for some reason hadn't written about her but having the immediacy of that moment and that panic panic and just like grappling with the idea that like nana's not going to be here forever <hes>. I wanted to capture her while she's still here so was she the impetus for this poem yes she was. I was trying to think of reasons. I was sad reasons. I was like afraid to tap into something and myself and wake up and why was avoiding masturbating anything that would excite in any direction like i said i have to tricked myself into writing poems and and so like the list was really useful in tricking myself into that poem does that shift from poems about your mother the two poems about your nanna. What effects do you find that having on the poems on like more like a craft level yeah i think i'm allowing myself to be more associative and and so in in the list making i allow myself to make leaps that i wouldn't make when i'm like thinking like down the page so much allowing myself to go back and forth and not have a a straight line through came we go back to sort of like the season of which that poem was written nice little month of group emails <hes>. Where are we all right. Are you wrote the most. I think i wrote the three hanbro and sets his handwriting sin. Screen shots that way. You're not read the poem exactly some some of us are like switching it up a little bit but you kept that title. That's topic and kind of really dug into it become a series. How was it for that month. If you can bring yourself yourself back to their return every day to touch not only the same sort of container but the same loose shape of a poem in a sonnet and was there anything that are you discovered through that process that you didn't know that you were going and seeking i mean i definitely didn't think it was going to be a series. I just felt when i wrote the title the first time it was a few months before that and i wrote upon with that title and i felt like i hadn't finished exploring that idea i liked limitations and i like rule so i loved the idea of the sonnet and then like giving myself that title allowed me to explore the different ways that like sadness keeps us from doing thing things that make us feel good from like enjoying ourselves and i just found myself returning to that like what else makes me sad and it's like faulk everything. I wondered lindsey actually if you if you wouldn't mind talking a little bit about what that poem i'm sort of sparked among you and the other editors or like how you see it working in the context of like the larger magazine or like don't talk about we're just going to move into this is less of a question more of a compliment side of this segment of the show. I'll have to say that. I didn't actually read this mission. So the first time i read it was when i knew it was using the magazine <hes> so that was a joy in and of itself. I feel like we've seen it the magazine a lot of sonnets recently. I don't know if this is because of you guys is. I don't know i wouldn't want to take all the credit but like finley ether shakespeare plagiarized. They went back in time. Yes i don't know what it is about this moment and maybe you guys talk about that but we've been getting a lot of fourteen eighteen line poems that are either fairly obviously a sonnet or not so much a sonnet and i think this poem fits in really nicely with that but i think you're right. I think the sonnet is having a little moment in american poetry again. I'm wondering if we as a community they're poets in the room so maybe we can all take the handbook. I wonder if we're all settings to to reach for the rigidity of form because the there's a little bit more senseless right so because this out here so chaotic where we can apply control right like i don't know what that is but but but but but but i know chris eli's were there things about the sonnet that surprised you as you continue to work in that form or that you found there. No it's like i don't know honestly. I write inform more often than i don't. I just undo it. I write inform form to get myself onto the page. What do you mean by undo it. You know like all right assess tina and then break the lines differently unchanged those end words as it goes through but like i had to write this osteen have a first draft virgo energy energy. I i have a question that goes up on that sort of undoing question because in this poem there to really interesting moment where the words your car are struck through and then you say a car i think why did you leave that sort of undoing moment in there and why are there no others in the poem yeah because i wanted to show process us and i wanted to show how like a lot of the pumps in the series are about distance are about longing when you're longing for someone that is not near you you like trick yourself into thinking they're near to you than there are seeing the car someone you love drives outside your window but knowing that they live thousands of miles away but you trick yourself self for that one moment like oh there they are and then you're like wait. No they're not here. There's somewhere totally far away and so it was important for me to like show that process that like like i had tricked myself into thinking this person was outside and they were definitely not. They're beautiful. Oh i feel like we have done such a lovely deep dive into this poem. Maybe we fixed workshop. Do this example but i'm wondering so before we go can we. We're here another poem from you. Yes yes please welcome everybody with another. I haven't masturbated in five days for fear of crying. Twenty-seven shots sent straight to the deleted photos album because my ass looks too wide from above my belly to pale with the lights on my left boob droops like thick thick paint on a canvas when i tried to pose sideways when i lie on my back they fall so far apart he could eat off the level surface surface of my sternum still. I'm the one who's hungry and i want to send him something sexy but my cellulite won't cooperate so i can tort tort my body into angles any yoga teacher would be proud of phone in one hand the other near my mouth or covering my pussy because mother told me that men prefer subtlety and i've played poker before i know better than to show my hand so i- snap filter and crop up until i'm an recognizable sack of bones and tits nipples taught a shade the most unnatural of pinks everybody we lowered all right i already for our next reader offer of five collections shinzo poetry most recently the octopus museum pick it up at powells and get it there. Professor at rutgers were so excited so so so so so excited to have her on the show everybody everybody please give rodham applause for brenda shot. This is by far the best room i've been in how i have so little to say way because i'm just so happy to be here. It is late and you're so brilliant. Everyone is so so this is called honeymoon. It's so flat here. You can see everything. It's not romantic. Nobody can slip in or out in secret grit and who among us has pumped the last worries who her heart collapsing into shade. I wished for more sons endless daughters a higher ratio ratio of my people to other people. Why not want what i want since we used all the air conditioning. It's become impossible to think things through. Can you believe your ears. All the electric music in the world has been turned into handbells. I wish i had a cushion for my knees. Instead of gloves to keep the handbells pure we we can get used to anything that doesn't mean we should i went to a wedding where everything is outrageous but trying to act modest by including goofy elements and such as people in bear costumes and gold nuggets descending from the ceiling only to be jerked back up out of reach when people tried to grab them long ago a matrimonial family collected a few eggs from each household in the village to contribute to the wedding cake a pig for the dinner a- gift from a rich uncle shortly after there was is a period of department store gift services and electro synth harps for higher but now we pick dandelions to make wine and plucked chickens to make fine the groom's cloak. He wants large brown wings. He wants a wolf pelt for his loins. He wants he wants he wants. There is no end to that. The bride is someone who is only ever served. No use asking someone who's once had a true taste of freedom whose eyes widened and who's pelvis thrust up unbidden better. She become someone who might never know what she lost. It is as a cover was how many centuries have brides been made and used in this way. How few centuries have let women be girls. First swirling as long as they wanted into their sweetness and sharpening into to ripeness only becoming women wants full heavy love was their desire inside and out maybe one maybe not quite one full century injury fabulous. Yeah it really was. I've loved that poem ever since i first read it. I want to ask you about the pros paul because i've heard a lot of people have very strong opinions or feelings about them. Some people love them. Some people hate them and so. I was wondering what the problem is like for you. Do you write a lot of them. And why the prose poem you know how every poem that comes. You has like tells you what shape it is. I'm uneven weird tercel. Because i'm a mallows it tells you and this whole book is written in a prose poetry line in part because it's kind of echo poetry and it set in the future where octopuses takeover our species. He's so fucking it up so why not let someone else try for example. This poem takes place in the future. It's like passed all his post capitalism stuff and now we're back to making our dan dealing for weddings so basically these are pros lines because you want to conserve paper <hes> you're not gonna you know how emily dickenson wrote on every little scrap she had because it wasn't just endless bunches of paper everywhere that you can just use and throw away and have luxury line breaks and three words on a whole page. It's like waste all your paper part two data couple times love that can waste on his paper right now that we know that trees are like souls. What did you mean like. Everyone was like that was a regular sentencing. Trees trees have souls. They've discovered that they discovered ours no there what do you mean they discover trees have souls science has discovered that trees have like a whole internet and they have sure sure sure search and they love each other what i mean they take care of each other any parents each other messages yeah no easy so wild. I i know a deadbeat birch out there. I just just learned about this to a couple of weeks ago. Sorry my mind is exploded. It's just the thought goes all the way to the end of the line it doesn't it doesn't the fuck around with anything precious in terms of space or taking up space. It just says itself all within the page form always follows function rain right and that's why we like sonnets because like you said shit so crazy you want to impose some some formality but also the sonnet form just has that volta has that turn in just when you needed it and emotional machine so that's why perfect emotional machine god. If if somebody ever called me that i would marry mary them immediately cass how this book came to be a little bit. You know how far into thinking you know about. These pros octopuses the places. Do you realize that you're building a whole world totally devastated. I'm fucking devastate. Is i mean i felt hopeless. I how all these two kids like. Why did i bring them into this. What have i done to them. You know and i just was that hopeless and so i thought what if it's not just the end what if it's not just be ruined everything what if we weren't everything just enough that another species took pity on us over so the octopus museum is the name of the book look and it doesn't mean a museum where the exhibits are octopuses exhibit serve humanity <hes> this was written out of absolute panic. I know you've had this feeling. Your maginness runs away. Can you think of the worst case scenario the worse thing and so i was trying to write to cut it off to stop the the bleeding you know because i was just really thinking being such negative things. I just come up. He's terrible scenarios and try to make them have something worth living for in them. The holbrooke is is bleak that way but that's that's why i wrote it. <hes> there's a tinge of hope in that bleakness though too right right yeah i think i think sometimes you have have to go all the way down right to even remember what kind of hope is even though in this book humanity has failed but what's there. Is this tiny little voice choice where these exhibits these poems are still hoping. There's an audience someone. Here's the question that i want to ask is how do octopuses think and how are are you thinking like an octopus. Okay great okay so the reason why octopuses are so amazing because so many reasons give us they branched off from us evolutionary sows so long ago that they're basically aliens ends there basically alien for sure. We all know they're smart. We all know they're cute and funny in the real. It's like the little purple ones google. Is you know what i mean. Okay okay continue. They have a decentralized nervous system. Uh so we have a brain here are the rest of our lives have to follow. It of our brain says they have like brains all in there every one of their tentacles. The ideal is that we polluted their oceans so we built them these sort of salinization pods on land and once they got on land they took over the grid because because they were able to reconfigure everything because they each octopus has that much more sort of typing swiping power than we have mhm now octopus is only live average of two four years and that kind of messed with my taking over thought well then that means nautilus isn't going to be old enough to climb climbed the ranks and pay their dues to lead the octopus invasion but they don't really have it in meshed intergenerational memory but they kinda hi new which we don't. We have a little bit but not enough so i got really excited about octopus is because i read. This book called other minds by peter godfrey smith. They are betters but they're also proof that we think we we humans think we understand shit and like we don't. We don't know what they're thinking. We don't know what what what they're capable of. We don't know what do we think we're at the top of the food chain destroying things. How is that at the top of anything beautiful beautiful horrible after somebody says something like just a horrible horrible yeah i think i think what's interesting about the poem that you read. Is that you kind of highlight all the sort of stupid decisions that humans have made it sure but the ending that talks about girlhood does that kind of like horrible an hopefulness that we were talking about and so i was wondering does girlhood survive survive in the dystopia in this book girlhood survives as a beast of burden. It's a little girl who ends up carrying everything on her back then to the book. It's the end. It's a little girl who ended up carrying us into the future because nobody else can <hes> yeah girls. Don't fare well in this brinda. Could you give us another poem. Four goes here one more time for brennan the traveller returns. I was like you once a sealed plastic bag of water filters floating on the sea. I i thought my numbers prove my time and space on earth. I thought having children was a way of creating more love. I thought thoughts. I was ashamed to speak in case they. They were what everyone already thought or in case they were unthinkable thoughts. Nobody would dare think much less say which would blow up the world. Everyone else had to live in if i said them i'm i muddle that distinction to extinction pure silence not a piece of peace and a breathlessness not of wonder but black throat choking on backwash once a while tentacle screaming creature every inch kissed lip of a beloved place a true and relentless mind all heart. It is a dumb hope of reusable pump. What was it you said that made me think once remember the last terrifying moments hence you wanted me to be completely open. We'd broken up. Remember such terms such luxury. We've got breaking up a kind of preservation to cut off circulation decided to sever at the place where our hair had grown together an axe a pair of kitchen scissors the rusty custody axe fully fatigued and scissors which cut raw chicken bacteria into everything it touched. Nothing did the trick to come apart. We'd have to come together her and so. I tried to make you come. You said it was our last time so you'd remember it you cried out and cried and i cried and i- hardened against you then and softened than wished we could go back wanted to love you like before twisted myself like nobody's pile of wires did you try didn't make me come and couldn't wouldn't or did i give you that and let you let me go. There will be no other way to be wants. The sways gone the last song on earth the last jelly bean last because nobody wanted it or everybody's saying it till the end once this day november <music> over never another each day nothing like the last except that it's the last and that's new to each moment broken glasses a covered mirror fox ext the waste stays in place. The rest disappears the unrest to there's no way to follow my own mind. My own mind is not leading. I'm unleaded gasoline how everything in between this flame and that attracted wind. I forgot got my glasses. How will we drink seeing isn't believing if i believe i see better with something i can so easily forget and what if i can't forget i forgot the heston squirm of my own baby in my arms in my own womb. I'll forget anything and call it an accident match to fuel and breathing breathing it all in as if i'm living normally from day to reregister day why is it if i can only remember what i myself experienced and they can also forget what i experienced who records the records and collects the recollections. I had that baby in my womb for thirty nine weeks for three quarters of a year a full calendar minus summer an unforgettable summer each day fucking endless. Oh i know all the numbers everything adds up. I've never seen my womb but my doctor has. I never saw that dr again right now. We're a band now. We we are batman august. I just wanna be what's his name chris. Kirkpatrick a thirty year old surveyed out the colleen. That's wrong band o otherwise the other way boys part okay so now we've come to this part of the show where we play a little game called this versus that where we pit oh oh my god how nice where we pit two concepts nouns etc against each other and our guests have to tell us which would win in a fight. We're we're doing a slightly modified. Version newlyweds meets this versus that the first one will be for lindsay and we're going to all all try to guess how lindsey would answer this this versus that does that make sense so lindsay is going to have her her thought and the will all uh what's lindsay's thoughts and decide together okay cool when your mother asks you a question and then answers for you. Are we the moms uh-huh uh-huh tonight. I am your mother taught. Let's play the game before it gets worse. Okay so so for lindsey our this versus that is who would fight don share editor of poetry magazine or harriet monroe founder of poetry three magazine long long ago so lindsey have your answer so so we can we can think through our but yeah so let's talk about this and then lindsey will tell us what's the right answer <music>. Yeah who's gonna win and if i don donner harriet i think she's going to go harriet. <hes> i think harry harry is showing up to the astral plane to fuck up on share like i'm pretty sure she's already like you know done a lot of agreements in heaven to come back and dan you know her immune system being born. A century ago has got to be solid so i feel like she's just bringing something back. That's been dead for a little bit and maybe that it takes out. It's don lindsay's bossa like our how what are lindsay's sort of motivations here. That's what but don wouldn't be her boss. If it weren't if he does now exactly wrong audit y'all had movies lindsay's barris and then she's looking at don share thirsty like this out here yeah now how about what about audience who would win in a fight if you think don share make some noise good luck getting those accepted. Don't worry we'll editor harriet monroe would win it. By what can i talk it through. Encourage job depends on you know feel bad for don now so okay back so my thought was similar to a lot of yours which is like oh. She's dead so she's got some benefit yeah so she has supernatural power in her in her area area she also. I don't know if you'll know this died ascending so she was like a bad ass so she's i've got some physical stamina but she's a ghost now so who knows but don never sleeps and like you know has infinite energy would win stamina or machu pichu. I gotta go with harriet on. Give it up for all right okay. This is so silly. I'm getting paid right now. Yeah <hes> okay our next. One is for louisa okay and this one is more. Would you rather situation okay cool so either. Would you rather be stuck in a lift with your nemesis. It's like bad traffic three hours you whoever they is or would you rather be sharing a a._w._b. Hotel room with your entire press yeah. Let's talk about it. I feel like a lived with your amasis. Headphones are for. I mean that's why aired the air pods little stupid. Yeah those are so. I'm in the nemesis camp too. I just think that's going to be a more interesting experience. I don't know i'm interested in like you know depend on what pressure on intergenerational multicultural sleepover you know like. I sounds kind of fun. I don't know if i would like to cuddle next to claudia rankine. It'd be like what did you do today. How about you d._a. Powell it's time versus space right <hes> <music>. You're the best one jeff daily the lift definitely the last couple of minutes you suck yeah. Maybe it's like from from the airport traffic in atlanta. I mean at least a couple days. Yeah that's true. That's true. He knows how's your kind of. You know you pray that somebody who's a night out you know like i don't know this is the work around that who gets the bathtub. We'll get to sleep in the bathtub that me they called it. Okay make some noise if you would rather be stuck in a lift with your nemesis. Make some noise if you would rather share a hotel room with your entire press. Thank you thank you my fucking. People bull right all right l. away. So what is it well jokes on you because i am my own nemesis the i am constantly stuck in a lift with myself. I'll take the left the incredible and finally for brenda shaughnessy would you rather be flying on a plane full of poets that means the passengers and the crew and the pilots are all poets or it. Would you rather be flying in a plane full of fiction writers now now. This is awesome and i know retreat in this. Would you rather but this could also be a fight eighty five eighty five poets which have flying experience yeah. Let's say they're all little mad. Everybody had to like board and debord at least twice is a would you rather be stuck in the air by some weird science miracle with poets fiction writers the pilots just pilot though right all. It's also a poet or a fiction writer competent but also writes yeah. It's not just like you know tauzin. I dunno like brenda hillman. The keys have add it. Yeah try do your best sharon old. What's he doing but <hes> get us vegas girl with what do y'all think playing for poets fiction writers. I wanna say poets because i don't know fiction. Writers are a lot. Why would you say that the camp but i'm bias. I work for a journal. That's called poetry poetry magazine brand new aw i don't know i feel like poets or not good with time. You know what i mean. Fiction writers are like first and then finally we arrived. You know what i mean like. That seems solid to me. I hear you. I hear you yeah because i feel like the poet pilot would would also want to take the scenic route. Turn this about the puck into pastoral and you know but i also feel like i might take take the fiction flight because it'd be quieter 'cause. I've never actually seen pictures. Writers talk to each other. I don't think they have a writer's community the way i feel i always talk about like the poetry community. Meanwhile picture like i'm only getting this advance. What was that y'all have problems selling books so oh audience would make some noise if you would rather be stuck on a plane full of poets uh-huh and make some noise if you'd rather be stuck on a plane full of fiction writers plan full of poets poets plane full of fiction writers. It's the first one i i think we're decided to first of all okay. Brenda all right that narrative aspect is something. I hadn't thought of and that's kind of a big deal. The pilot issue is a big deal i. I don't think this plane's gonna make it either way but you know i have to pick poets. That's how i have to died died. That's how i have to dive fiction writers. Where would you rather die with. Fixing writers poets once again poetry wins the popular vote and we also yeah electoral college. Switching writers still have the rent all right uh-huh. Can we have another round of applause for amazing death. Thank you all so much for playing with us. Thank you to the poetry foundation to pose loudness to pair gallery purveyor mayor of these donuts. Thank you for being here daniel kiplinger thank you domino ally. Follow us the podcast. Ask thank you so much for coming through. Please get home safely. Dive into the pages of poetry with the weekly elliott award winning poetry three magazine podcasts every week editors choose a poem from the current issue and biting the poetry reader discussed their interpretations listen to the editors talk with poets and critics debate the issues. I am from the current issue. Listen and subscribe on apple podcasts soundcloud and poultry foundation dot org slash podcast.
DJ's Updated Top 50 Prospects & Traits Bill Belichick Looks for in Defensive Players
"And now move the sticks with Daniel Jeremiah and bookie brooks. What's up everybody off in a move the sticks? Dj Bucky here buck. How you doing man business ever? You put out some Really good content twitter and some stuff that you're putting on the web. So some of that has been kinda reacting to the aggregate tweets that you put out there. But I'm excited to talk about some of this phone apart. You know it was pretty cool. I and we'll get to that. I found a document. My wife have been doing some cleaning in. She found some old files. One of them was a folder called Scout School. Which when I was with the Baltimore Ravens Phil Savage had had put this into place where every scout would have to make a presentation to the staff training camp. In one of those presentations. We had somebody on our staff who had been with the browns You know all the way back to the early belichick years and Belichick had made a presentation to the staff on what they were looking for. Players in these are the typed up notes from that that discussion from February Thirteenth Nineteen ninety-one and they gave us Those handouts and this was probably back in two thousand four so when they gave us These so I found it in a of the stuff that he said in here still holds true today which was fascinating in in in the last twenty four hours after I posted this one of the top receivers in the NFL. Shot me a direct message and said Man It's amazing. How all this stuff is still true. Today this morning book. I had somebody say their owner On a conference call brought up what was said in in this. Packet it with their staff so I mean there's a lot of people that got a kick out of that thing. Yeah well it matters. I mean like Dj. We're talking about things that can stand the test of time and there's value experience and Bill Belichick said a ton of experience. He seemed a game A variety of decades. And there's some things that are. Common denominators debt will never go away. And I think what you highlighted in what you pointed out when discussing the offensive prospects. I think all that stuff matters. And if you look at the way the game plays out like it may have some ebbs and flows in terms of style of play from some outliers but typically the teams that went are two teams. That are kind of built like that. Packet describe Big Physical The ability to run the ball. When you need to run it quarterback that makes big decisions that can make plays when he's called upon And then having the variety of players to be able to depend on like those teams are always in the conversation. You may not win the championship each and every year. But you're always in the conversation you'll always under consideration no doubt and if you if you want to check that out just go on my on my twitter page sticks you can find it. I tweeted out the offense what we're GONNA do today on the podcast I did want to give away all the goodies on on twitter. So we're going to do the defense. We'll talk about what he mentioned what he looked for on the defensive side of the ball and see how that holds up today. So that's going to be a fun discussion. But before we get their book I do have updated top fifty of your chance to pull it up at all. There's not really not that much movement I can kind of go through some of the highlights. Here just get your thoughts on them but You know to. I mentioned after seeing that video the other day put too much stock into it but man. He looks like he's progressed quite well. It gave me a little bit of courage. Some of that Maybe twitter courage. We say because we saw that video posted on twitter and I moved them up one spot to number six on my list. He's still my number two quarterback but moved him up a little bit other movement inside the top ten. Jed Wills we talked about this You know going back to kind of where you were at the beginning. Jerick wills is now my tenth player. He moved up two spots. And that's about where he began the process book. I think I had eight or nine. So he's he's right back up there to number ten at some point time you get to this point in the process and you say hey. Let's not over. Think this thing what you thought initially was probably right. Dj We had a conversation. Probably on the phone about like how. Everything kind of goes back to First Impressions and after this long journey we kind of get back to where we started and I think the big thing with the guys that you mentioned is just kind of knowing who they are and seeing them play at a high level consistently over time is easy to fall back in love with those guys and I think judge wheels is a perfect example. He's really solid. He's been solid throughout his career. He's been saw that when you watched a tape and I think there's some conference in value to just take really good players and I think at the end of the day when we look at his draft in four or five years those players that we thought were just solid blue chip players. They'll kind of stand the test of time and I think digit wheels is GonNa be one of those guys. Yeah I agree in we get to eleven through twenty really not a lot of change Nobody move in more than one spot except for one guy in that is at number eighteen. Kenneth Murray moves up four spots for me the linebacker from Oklahoma and people wonder how can you move up during this time of year while some of its watching more tape the other part of it buck is when I've talked to the teams that have met with him and I have continued to have dialogue with people at Oklahoma? This kid's character in just the way. He handles himself as a pro and so to me I. I saw the ceiling with him. You know could you see the speed now? I didn't think I thought wise. He was good. Not Great but you get to the point in the process where you get more comfortable with the person in the kid and I'm like these are the kind of guys you bet on. And so I'm I'm in on Kenneth Murray. He's up four spots number eighteen for me. Good kid great leader. I think what's important when you look at a player like him year? We talk the the ability to hit running cover his ability to blitz his ability to match up with running back to all their stuff but the leadership stuff really matters The challenges that he's had to overcome at home. I think listen to May have ruled in rural talking about football versity and see how people deal with Decca Diversity in in how they respond and how they handle it how it kinda shapes and reveals their character. I'm more willing to buy into the kid. And I think the kid has to Reich on stuff to be successful we get to we get to the twenty one through thirty in. There's a little bit of movement. Here in mckinney goes down four spots so basically kept the list clean swapped him with Kenneth Murray so they just swap spots there kind of kept a little bit cleaner. Xavier mckinney still. The top safety for me. There's not there's no elite trait buck. He's just really solid. He's a good force player. He's got a good instincts is a great tackler again. Another character person but not didn't have those elite traits to me that I would say okay. I stand on the table. This is a top twenty pick. I have missed my twenty-second guy yet. It's funny with with Xavier. Right like Xavier strikes me as a player. But I don't know like I don't know the impact player he is. You know He solid but I don't know it leaves me wanting more at me. I don't know if it's necessarily fair to him. But when you think about like the top safety in a draft laws you think about a first round pick you think about what is he going to add to the deficit when I look at him? I see someone who can come in and be a solid starter. But I don't necessarily see a dynamic player. I don't see a game changer. So I don't know how excited with doozy acid in the first round to run the corridor to say that this is going to be my safety. He's GonNa Change Defense for the next five years. Yeah and that's a challenge and that's why you have some other guys that are behind him. That have a higher ceiling. I think he's going to be a good player. I think you're not going to miss on him. He kind of goes back to the whole doubles thing right. If you just WanNa hit a double Xavier. Mckinney's a double. You're not gonNA miss on him. He's GonNa Start for your team for the next eight years. Nba Good player. I don't know if he's going to be a dynamic player but I agree with. You is going to be a real solid good player. So that's where I have him. Another move over in this range brandon. I kind of wanted to go back to where I initially was on him. He goes up three spots number. Twenty four I just believe in. I believe in this kid man and the way he plays. He's a Red Star type player. You know I don't have. We talked to them. But I don't have as much information on him off the field. I enjoyed our conversation with him at the senior bowl but the way he plays the aggressiveness competitiveness. Those are the guys at the end of the day. That's the guys I want to have my name on. And that's why I moved him back up three spots at twenty four. I understand in in like we talked about the process right. We talked about the process. Is I just trying to get guys in the right neighborhood? Nash trying to kind of put them in the right house. And that's where we're at and there's some things like the guys that are really at the top of the board should be difference makers game changers guys that you can see the impact immediately when they walk into the field. And I think we're at the point. Now where we Kinda et borderline stage debord stage where we may get star solid starters but we don't know if these guys are necessarily going to pop and so understanding understand why he made a move. Yeah you kind of see the theme here as we go. Thirty one to forty The big mover there in that group is going to be Zach. Bon ANZAC bongos up. Five spots he's up to number thirty three and this is I think I had them in this neighborhood at one point time you kind of find his way back up there but again it's when you get to this point in the process book and say okay. This is close to being finalized. These are the guys that I'm stamping my approval on and I want to go with the guys that play extremely hard in our competitive Zach bond can rush. He can cover a little bit can do a lot of different things but more than anything else. Bucket just plays so dang hard those guys I want to bet on. Yeah man like People don't understand this but like hustle matters to me when I'm looking at the tape. Do you run to the ball. Do you finish. Do you do too little stuff That are considered to be kind of championship caliber effort when Look Zach bond his versatility and all this stuff absolutely love but I love the way that he plays to effort. Eddie expands how he finishes all those other things and so If I'm buying into somebody I want to buy into some Warren desk going to be what I call one hundred percent effort guy. A guy is gonNA play from snapped a whistle. He's GonNa make the place are to be made he's known lineup in the Rice Bates place. He's GonNa do the little things. Exact bond does all of that and I was even more impressed with him. After washing the senior bowl new out of his element comes in it. Just kinda makes plays just a steady eighty player. Yep that's him describe him and I think you'll see him go. Probably Twenty five to thirty five is my guess Jimmy Chen. He goes up five spots to forty. Three we've talked plenty about him. The safety slash linebacker some people view as a will. I think he can play down there in that role from southern Illinois He's up to number forty three. But there's two new additions and I finally did it book. I feel like we've been talking about this forever but forty-nine is Lloyd cushenberry. Who's a good player in wanted to get him in there? He goes in forty nine and then finally number fifty. I made the plunge. I slept like a baby last night after turning this in book because I put Jalen hurts in at number fifty. Yeah he has been a guy that he's such a polarizing prospect particularly on twitter The reaction that you get When you do things or your flowery in your evaluation of him is funny but I think. Dj We we've seen it we we've been around the game longtime and we've seen these players kind of find a way to Lasting carve out nice careers jalen hurts is productive. Daily hurts is smart. He's tough he's competitive. He's performed well on a big stage for two different teams. He's a winner. He's led his team to the winter circle to different teams and so we can nitpick in and talk about like ours. She would throw it a little better. He could do this a little better but at the end of the day like the total of everything that he brings to the table is one that. I just think you're GONNA have a tough time. Convincing coaches and scouts did he's not gonNA make it and we've talked about He's GonNa go day to would not be surprised if at the bottom of the first maybe his name call. I think he's really really solid player in the fact that he handled the to a situation with the way that he handled it. I think is just another feather in his cap and I find it fun. I mean a lot of people are like no guy's going in the fourth round. You're crazy am I. I don't know man. I think it only takes one team and I'll I'll read you. The end of my my summary. Here book overall hurts must continue to improve in the passing game but I'm going to bet on his eventual success to his playmaking skills and overall competitiveness. Kids wired the right way He's won a lot of football games. He can make plays a tweet this out the other day when I think might even talked about podcasts. Which was man. You're going to be under pressure in the NFL. That's that it's a pressure league. So how do you play under pressure? When you've got free rushers when you've got to be able to to think quick and make things happen now. You need to do one or two things you need to be able to identify it and attack or you or you better be athletic enough to escape and while. I think jalen still going to take some time to get comfortable being able to identify an attack and I think right away book. He's going to be able to escape and create in when you look at some of these quarterbacks draft class. They can't do either. I can hang my hat on the fact I know. For a fact this kid can escape and create. And make some place yeah. I think the escape decorating port is big but DJ. I wanted to go back and just think about what we saw from him. At the senior bowl we saw take a butt kicking in the senior bowl where he was getting drilled in hit and hit over and over again because they were having a tough time blocking them upfront and didn't flinch and for all the trays that we can talk about the quarterback. Your quarterback has to be a tough guy He has to be tough enough to be able to weather the storm and not change and I think for Jalen hurts. He doesn't change after he gets tapped around. And that toughness to me is probably an underrated quality that we demand from quarterbacks. But it's one of the things that he has that leads me to believe that he's going to be successful all right. Let's let's let's put a button on that. They're from the top fifty. 'cause I want to spell check thing in that time we have left and just talk talk through some stuff? He talked about on defense again. This is nineteen ninety one So Buck I'm going to go through and read you. What he said on the defensive line As well as kind of the overall thing so at the very top it says defense Defend the middle of the field. I not allow offense to run or pass inside pressure on the QB up the middle force them to go outside. Make sure you have a third down cover. Linebacker sixty beat matchup on the metcalfe's of the world etc. That's the first the first thing right there at the top of the list and I thought man in offense. He talked about being able to attack in the middle of the field and on Defense. He talks about closing the middle of the field. Yeah communists so funny like in common denominator like when I was a player in Jacksonville Dixie Ron who gray player play. He talked about. It's the same for everybody in every sport. You gotta be strong down to middle. So you're thinking about in baseball pitcher catcher middle infantile middle infielders into center fielder basketball point guard. Senate used to be the way that you win in football this right down the pipe you defile. 'cause your Mike Linebacker you safety you gotta be able to have smart guys that enforces. You have to push us to the edges. And that's where you put your speed. It hasn't changed. Dj never changes like the way that you win in the national. Football League has been the same. And it's been consistent from the sixties seventies eighties nineties to thousands. You have to be you have to control the middle of the feel and you have to be able to dictate where the ball goes on defense and on offense. She got attacked them. Right down the middle because it makes life easy for the quarterback and everybody else. I'm GonNa read. What he said about the D- D line. Dt's says t's and then D. ends. And then I'm GonNa give you the his all defensive line notes here so Dealing tear or nt inside guys need explosive quickness and can play well in a fairly confined space explode power quickness leverage if he's big and has explosive quickness. It's what you want for. Eight speed is not the main ingredient in size can be two seventy five an up if he has. The other ingredients need a big strong guy that you can bring in when you have to go across from the checks in the Muna's that's thinking back to that era defense events all around player big strong and can run. These are the hardest guys to find would rather have the big strong guy than the faster guy to stop the run I and can substitute in for the pass rush So that's kind of what he said about the D- line there bucking. I'm GonNa give you the the four things he says right underneath that number one you cannot get knocked off the line number two size over speed at defensive end interesting number three pressure up the middle for the QB can cause more problems than guys running around the corner and number four framed growth. Potential are very important while it is still a lot to unpack in that right. And I'm I'm I'm packet Using two different examples as we to Carolina Panthers into Super Bowl thirty eight and we lost to the Patriots on our Panthers team at D. Tackle we had Brenston buckner and Kris Jenkins who was playing at an all pro level time. Mike linebacker was Dan. Morgan into safety was Mike minner. All were blue players at that time but because Upfront Kris Jenkins could absolutely dominate. At the point of attack it may life easy and then when you talk about the INS at end. We had Julius Peppers Mike Rucker. Julius peppers was As he described him he was big. He was fast he was physical. He was doubt against a run but he also could get to the passer but Julius peppers in Kris Jenkins were the two most important pieces to that defense. And that is why we dominated Kris Jenkins ability to routinely put the gored in. The lap of the quarterback disrupted and destroyed the timing of the passing game. And then would you list peppers capable of not only stacking the line of scrimmage on the edge but also get to the quarterback it just made the defense nearly impossible to deal with and we played with two undrafted free agent corners. terry cousins and Reggie Howard and went to the Super Bowl so everything. He talks about a front. Those guys being disruptive they absolutely set the foundation of the defense. And if you're good up front you have a chance. Yeah I thought it was fascinating to about just the size on the edge versus speed. You think about power rushers versus speed. Russia's he acts like the power guy because he could set the edge as well We get to linebackers and we'd go through this one quick because I want to get to these. Db's buck but outside linebackers. Big Rangy Guy who can run if you can get them. They're usually the first round picks but settle for guys who can stay on the line long arms. Quick Hands. The six two outside. Linebackers are hard to like even if they can run up field. They're small with no range outside. Linebackers needs size speed and athletic ability inside. Linebackers has to be able to play in close quarters instinctive explosive tacklers. Who can face up and knock guys back Can play zone defense and not be putting a man to man situation so that's a little bit of a difference there. Nowadays Good Blitzer is must be football. Smart don't need. Great Intelligence need instincts quickness and aggressiveness and leverage in explosive power. So those the linebackers Well we have an example. Every day we walk in NFL network. They're outside linebacker. Willie mcginest as long as you can find and then when you look at Mike. Variable standing on the sideline the length stands out. So they're also linebackers are like death and then when you go to the linebackers and you think about the success that he had we tedy Bruschi Powerpack great instincts Plays faster than maybe he tests because instinctively he is able to play one step ahead of the offense. And then I think the common denominator in everything that you read that you're reading physicality toughness knocking people back There's a style of play. That kind of comes out in listening to you. Read come at that report. You're know that you can visualize how he wants his defense to play and I think the personnel evaluations match the philosophy that he's also put out there. I WanNa read buck great points. I WanNa read the safeties in the corners and then some overall things. I want you to touch on the overall things here. With the time we have left Safeties tacklers especially at the safety spot. And you want to be at least two hundred pounds speed four five two four six range need range of the two deep safeties You don't you do not need. Mental giants is what he said here. So you got to be more instinctive but you need size speed guy have to be able to cover man to man the two hundred pounds four seven five tough-guy cannot play for us. Guy Has to be able to play the pass. The traditional strong safety guy versus run is not what we need former corners moved inside to safety might be ideal if they have size ball skills and judgment are essential more so than pure speeding athleticism corner. Tackle enforced guys. You need one pure cover corner five ten ranging up cannot put guys on the field who cannot tackle size becomes a factor small cover corner guys that liability intelligence on defense is not a great factor. So those were. There's a lot to unpack there with that book but I WANNA get to this last point here because he says. Db's have to work well together like an offensive line need a sense of teamwork and unselfishness and I was talking to a coach the other day about this list and he brought up a great point he said I said I so agree with that. Cohesiveness of the entire secondary the trust understanding what some guy might be a little bit Weak in one area so on a particular covered you can kind of cover him up in that area. You know knowing each other so well all that communication he said think about we have so many coaches now that most teams have a safeties. Room Anna Corners Room. These guys don't even meet altogether as one group and he said he thought that was. That was a big mistake when you look at how if you compare it to an offensive line. That's not doing it the right way yet. Dj There's there's a lot of impact so A couple of things that stood out to me about what he said There's a reason why we're excited a little bit about the DB class at corner because there were so many six foot two hundred pound guys those kind of the guys. That coaches prefer. Because they're long they can match it with the big body receivers and if they're tough enough to tackle those gas can stay on the field when he talks about safety's Long ago I had a coach. Tell me that the ideal secondary would feature one safety and three corners and that third corner is basically. You're strong safety. So he can come down and the tie it in but also is tough enough to be a factor in the run game because you hear the the steady Commentary on tackling and then the cohesiveness of the secondary part of the reason why the Legion of boom was so successful. Those guys play together for a while. Kam Chancellor Earl Thomas Richard Sherman Brandon browner and even by Metro. They were together. Three four five years. And what happens? Is You begin to have a level of trust that enables you to cover up for each other. If I'm Richard Sherman and I see something I can tell Earl Thomas. I'll make a play. Cover me up in case. I get beat desks. Why Matters Yeah. I think that's a great point. I think it's a huge deal the last thing that I'll get to as we kind of wrap this this show up book. Here's his five problems. Five potential problems with the defense number one on the list is tackling poor tackling number. Two selfishness think about that number three. You need size. Big Physical strong is number four. You need competitiveness guys at play hard for sixty minutes and I love this note right here. What does a guy do on the PAT and number five is need symmetry defense? So it all works together. But I want to go back to number four because I was talking to somebody yesterday. And he's actually going to do this assignment for. He's going to have somebody in their personnel department. Put this together. What if you went through and you which you can do through the video right now for every defensive player in the draft it would take a while right but you have you had a bunch interns you could divvy it up and signed up and say okay and maybe it's more for next year when you have more time to go into combine meeting and say okay? You're a corner we watched you're on field for sixty this year and we gave you an F. for your effort or or we watched you on sixty. Psat's now chances you're going to block the kicker probably less than one percent but man you played that play like you like the world depended on. You know you're in a player that I think there's something you can glean from that as crazy as that sounds. I do think that does speak to a little bit of your overall professionalism and competitiveness year. Dj speaks to that but it also speaks did this so if you go back and look at Bella check and bill parcells. They use starters special teams and so they're punt team comprised mostly. They're starting defense. And so what you want. You guess who took pride in in college so you don't have to reteach them in the pros and when it comes to the effort on. Pat's is your ability to bounce back. Say you the quantity gave up a fifty yard bomb. Are you still stuck in that last play or are you able to flush it and move on to the next play? 'cause next played may be a become to a block. And that's the difference in the game so as much as we talk about the performance it shares on your mental your mentality. Are you tough enough to endure? Would you give up? A plane bounced back and then also the professionalism that you speak to do you play hard. Do you play hurt each and every play because the one thing that coaches don't want to have to do. I don't WanNa have to coach effort. I want to spend the bulk of my time. Dilawar technique the effort. You have to bring on your own. Do you take pride in your effort. So yeah there's a lot to unpack in that statement now again. I think it goes to the details of of Bill Belichick and why he's been as successful as he's been because every single detail matters and he's proven that throughout his hall of Fame Coaching Career. all right buck. That's GonNa do it for us on this episode here. I do want to everybody know We have the Justin Herbert three sixty episode. That's GONNA launch here. You're going to see that in video form That's coming Thursday two. Pm Eastern time you can watch the move the sticks video show on NFL dot com and then also we'll have that audio released as well So beyond the lookout for that it's It's it's really really one of our our standard pieces of content here that that we do each and every year the three sixty series. So I think you'll enjoy The boat the video show as well as the Herbert three sixty Audio so That's going to do it for us today. I want to thank you guys so much for listening Stay SAFE OUT THERE. And we'll see you next time right here on. Move the sticks.
A Hall of Fame Conversation with Chipper Jones
"Hey baseball tonight listeners. I wanna let you know about something. I think you'll really enjoy on the latest episode of Marty Smith's America, the podcast Morty had the chance to chat with hall of Famer Chipper Jones about everything from hunting to how he broke his hand while being scouted in highschool give the show a listen. And if you like what you hear do yourself a favor and subscribe to Marty Smith's America, the podcast in the ESPN app or every light to listen. Welcome to the party Spitzberg odd cast volume thirty three this week. We have a lead. I mean, like a Jif legend first balance major league baseball hall of Famer Chipper Jones, and this guy was one of the phases of the south for two decades and with a distinguished career that spanned all of that time with a single team. The Atlanta Braves the production that Jones put up year after year after year is historic. And that's why he's a first ballot hall of Famer. And it's so fun to talk to baseball players. The biggest reason I love to chat with baseball players is the storytelling. They have the best stories and Chipper was more than willing to share some of his best stories. There's a story about a flash bang and a gas grill. There's a story about a broken hand. There's a story about the why there's the broken hand. And it's wonderful every bit of it's wonderful. This is one of my favorite conversations. I've had on the Marty's Miss America. Podcast. We get into chippers passion for the outdoors and any of you guys. Watch commander you'll be so interested to learn about his transition from but commander to major league bow hunter and why because I was being an outdoors enthusiast, and it's fascinating. So y'all are going to love this one. I can't wait for you to hear it. I want to hear your thoughts on hit Travis and me up on Twitter. We wanna know your feedback. My handle is at Marty. Smith ESPN travis's is at Travis rock hold. And we want to know what you think about this thing, man, we're having so much fun with it. I love when I'm out, and I hear from you guys about how much you enjoy these interviews and what they mean to you. I wanna know because we wanna make them better. We wanna make them as good as we can before we get to Chipper. I wanna talk threads with y'all Indochino the world's most exciting made-to-measure menswear company. They. Make suits and shirts to your exact measurements for unparalleled, fit and comfort. Guys. Love the wide selection of high quality fabrics and colors to choose from and the option to personalise the details, your lapel lining pockets buttons and writing your own monogram. It's so easy, right. Now's the time guys right now is the time to go to Indochino dot com and get any premium suit for just three hundred fifty nine dollars Indochino dot com. 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It's kinda hard to describe in just a couple of sentences. It's, you know, just a combination of, you know, mob four years and in baseball since I was six or seven years old, you know, in the backyard playing with a ten on a PVC by for my dad, the backyard, you know, you know, to have to culminate and Lee standing up there with, you know, at a podium with sixty living Alzheimer's, my Heidel, you know, growing up in behind me pretty nerve wracking. I took a public speaking class house in high school, but that's a whole other level right there. So public speaking class didn't do a damn thing at the hall of fame. No, no, no, I'm I was okay. With the forty thousand people that front of it. But the sixty seven binding they may little bit nervous. That's every kids during the one organization your whole career first ballot production. What? Are your emotions thinking back about that moment when you're stepping up to address the crowd and trying to do what you just did you're trying to encapsulate. What this was like. And among all those nerves. It's is very difficult. Probably you know, one of the most intimidating frightening moments. You know of your life, you know, because, you know, first and foremost, you don't want to forget anybody or leave anybody out. But, but Secondly, it's hard, you know, for someone who doesn't be professionally for a living such as yourself. You know, we we have trouble coming up with the words to the proper properly describe things from time to time and our feelings on on certain things. So I guess that's why they gave us by six months to prepare. I think each guy did a did a pretty good job of celebrating their their baseball career. But I think most of us would tell you that while we got done. Maybe we could a little better, you know. But you know, hey to be the face of the franchise to be, you know, known as an Atlanta brave for for basically, two decades. That's all I really wanted to strike home. You know, the the point that what Braves country inst- to me. And what what I know. I mean them because let me tell you down here in the south east for three hours every night people invited me into their hall turned on their TV set, I became a part of their family over two decades. And I think that's really the song connection than I have a Braves fans, you know, all over the country. What do they say to you now that you're retired? And you're out in public, and you're on TV, you know, and beers you tip Jones deer slayer. We'll get into that minute. But when you're out with the boys are two grocery store. People say. To you. Thank you. And it blows me away every time somebody says, thank you, you know. And that's where you really get the feeling that you're a part of their family because while they're sitting around the dinner table, they got the Braves game on and you know, I I was a big part of their family when they say, thank you. I'm thinking to myself man, all I did was play. Play advan his game, you know, and and enjoy doing it. I wasn't really thinking about being an all those homes and being a part of all those families. But to you know, I had my only response is brother. It was my pleasure. You know, I for twenty years I had the best job on the plant. So you're eighteen years old get selected number one overall, and you get a two hundred seventy five thousand dollar Wapping signing bonus. Would you buy? I've on a nineteen ninety two zero one corvette. Of course, you did. Because stupid young and stupid. I had that car for about four months before. I was like this. I'm here. I am traveling all over the southeast in the minor leagues. And I'm trying to do it in a two seater. Corvette. Man. I it didn't take me long to go out and get the old Ford Explorer. I can tell you that I was gonna ask you what what was choice number two like a Toyota Corolla. It was a green Ford Explorer, and I had that sucker pretty much all the way through the minor leagues. What's the pressure being number one? A lot more difficult now than it was when when when I was there. I mean, it was it was it was pretty bad because everything you did was put under a microscope back, then, but most of the attention that you got was, you know, print news. It's you know, it's not social media and TV the way, you know, the way it is. Now, I can't imagine being the number one picking the draft nowadays with the amount of hype and pressure and every little move you make being being put under a microscope. I thought it was you know, ridiculous. When when when I did it shoot manage its times a hundred now I had it easy. But you know, I was always comfortable in my own skin. Because I felt like if I went out and took care of my business took care of my job that I was number one pick the Braves we're going give. Give me a chance to fail in the big leagues. And ultimately that was my train was just to get to the big leagues. Now, how they know communist myself that that loss I dot to the big leagues I knew I wasn't going anywhere. But I think it was just you know, purser is what you you put on yourself. If you listen to all outside influences, and you don't truly believe in yourself. That's when that's when you set yourself up for failure. But I'm never doubt it myself. You know, when it comes to step in and step in between those lines. Okay. He didn't doubt yourself. What was the lowest point? Oh, where people, you know. Right after the draft. You know, I'm coming off a broken hand, which I got in a fight about two weeks before the draft both my hand and the story behind that one. You gotta read the book Marty come on, man. Give me I will read the book. But since I don't have the book in front of me, at least give me the cliff notes, man. I got a I got in a fight the day before the state championship game. I senior year we were in lakeland, Florida. We were working out or about twenty five scouts into stands. Mock coach comes up to me tells me, I take you know, after I'm done in right hand. My coastal new take ten or fifteen swings left just to show the scouts. You know that that I could switch it and whatnot. Well, one of my teammates didn't like that very much. When I got done hit. You know? He was he was dogging me how feel now walked up to what's your problem? And it's terrif- teen. Extra swings? Hey, he called me a proven Donna, which really kinda got under my skin little bit. You know? And I went nose to nose with him. And he said hit me pretty boy. And I smoked. Has a you know had to had to pitch the next day and actually pitched the state championship game with a broken hand. And we ended up losing to Alex Rodriguez it same in the state championship in no way. Yeah. Go ahead and just just a pamphlet book for me. So that I feel better about this situation. Well, Carol, Carol, routers, Walton who's covered the brave Forever's gray friend of mine, she came to me a few years ago and said I'd really like to write a book, and you'd think about this. And you know, she thought that it was an interesting story. You know, hey, let's say something if reality to back in the late nineties that then you know, in vogue and been following me around. I would have the hottest show on TV how hot mess going anywhere Chipper. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but yeah, see finally decided to do it and book is called ballplayer took us couple years to to get all the content and get it the way we wanted it to. But I'm certainly happy with the way it was received. I realized that when you're writing a book like that, you know, everybody expects, you know, to to hear you kinda to your own horn. I guess you could say when it comes to the good moments. But I think if you're. Going to write a truly good. You know, autobiographical book you have to expose your wars to. And there were certainly, you know, my fair share of them back in the day vulnerability, man. The rate is drama huge. Anybody that listens Marty? Smith's America podcast or knows anything about me. I think one of the greatest skills in talents in the world is songwriting. I'm a huge music gas specifically country songwriters. And I study it and the great songs are Soames the great series are vulnerable story. So you're exactly right. The best stories you are truly showing all of you yourself. And that's not what no it's not easy. And it took a lot of. You know, bring him back some some some painful stuff, you know, throughout the years. I've you know, I've been through two marriages. And you know, it was it was a rocky road for little while. And you know, there's there's no doubt that baseball contributed in a big way to, you know, the deterioration of of both of those marriages. Whether it was, you know, maybe unable to keep temptation it on length or whether it was just the lifestyle itself, you know, being gone. You know, playing two hundred baseball games being gone. You know, all day every day, even when I was home sleeping him out there, and I was gone all day every day. So I definitely puts a strain on people people that can make it, you know, paying fifteen twenty years, you know, in a big lifestyle and make it through with passing colors that is one strong strong relationship. And they got my votes respect. What was your welcome to the show moment? Probably. Oh. Definitely in the book, my first art and bigger, I got a Cup of coffee and ninety three got three or four bucks and September. I belong money and spring training of ninety four that one is come up, and you know, in and of itself, you know, on the cusp of making the big league roster as a as a, you know, twenty two year old in third in the middle of that line up in nineteen ninety four and two weeks before season. I blew out my knee. But I would say that the come up, you know, the real kind of, you know, settle down moment came very first start ninety five top of the first inning Maddux's on the mound. Very bond is that the play and we played an over shift on him. I was actually playing shortstop and everybody else is on the other side of the field. And there was a pop up right in over top of the mouth. And you know, I'm it's my first starting to big man, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be this. Take charge third base. And then I come flying in and I'm screaming and the next thing. I know I'm laying flat on my back with little Tweety birds. You know, circling over my head, you know, Bobby wouldn't let us where Oakley's back in the day. So we had the old school flip downs flip downs were in my mouth. Okay. And all I can hear is Greg Matic's. Just doll cussin' me. Like, nobody's business. Right. So I had one over that's in million dollars pitcher that we had a great Matic first inning about thirty first start. All right. And I just remember here in Fred McGriff who actually caught the pop up standing over both of us just laughing just thought out just so tickled, you know, and Mattis cuss me for about five minutes because I think kicked him in the Catholic kinda saw them in the cast. And m s me like, nobody's biz. For like five innings. And Finally, I got sick. Oh, I said look how Sean best I can now stop. I'll break you in half a half. But yeah, that was kinda my welcome to the bigly. I love it. Your other passions are like most country, boys passions, myself included, hunting, fishing and NASCAR. Yep. And I know that you were one of the first guys involved in but commander with LaRoche in Willie and knows guys. And I can't imagine the fun y'all had together like how would have given anything to be net merry band. Gypsies? Tell me where what's a great story. From those times. It was we had a got spread out there in Kansas. And we were all kinda in his little metal on cement, you know, some floor. He's got a Bank as in. There's got a volleyball court. You know, real nice lounge dinner area got all melts up on the wall and stuff. It's just kinda wary entertains right, so willy and Laura. His brother is over brother, actually is his older, brother. Jeff, we're in this little, you know, kind of prank war, and Jeff was a Jeff was a trooper. In was the key word. There is was a trooper out in the nothing Colorado. So there, you know, I think willy to all of Jeff's close put in Jeff suitcase filled at full of water. And then put it in the in the walk in freeze. Okay. So that was that was kind of what got all this kind of stuff started. So Jeff thinking he's going to be all, you know, cool, and and do the one up and he decides to throw a flash bang Willie as cooking dinner. Okay. No. On a gas grew gay and Jeff decides he's going to throw a flash bang. Underneath Willie's legs and scare them. Well, you know metal building would submit floor. Can you imagine? What a fly. No sounded like that. I thought the world howitzer in. Yes. I thought I thought somebody had discharged a weapons somebody got shot. Everybody was you know, diving for the town. It was it was insane. Well, Willie you know, obviously doesn't know where he is stumbles into the bathroom and Moore -ly explodes to commode as he falls. I so the commode is in twelve different pieces. There's water everywhere. And I think we really had a producer Louis looming injury. You know from that from that. It's so at that point, I think all the the the monster pranks kind of ended not told Roach. I rotea I love you. I love you like a play cousin. But you keep your brother away for me. 'cause that was dangerous. I mean, you know, that was inches from a, you know, a a gas type of grill whole place could have gone out. So. That was probably one of the one of the better nights. We had at book commander. That is exactly what I expected that story is I had high expectations and you exceeded them. That's exactly what I wanted. So then you transition to major league hunter how did that come to be? Well, I think Matt, and I we kind of had some of this the same visions think it'd be wrong we had a blast with with buck commander. But it was kind of a, you know, a fraternity like atmosphere and just kind of wants to that crazy stuff going on. And I just felt like, you know, at some points by some people who weren't take being taken very seriously in the industry. So I really wanted to get into more of a trust me tough. And I we still have fought it still comes through, you know, on TV, but I want I I really wanted to be a part of, hey. Why are we in this state at this time of year? Why are we in this tree, you know, with this wind and more educational type of of platform, you know, as opposed to the to the major league clubhouse type of platform of you know, it's I it it's worked out better for for both sides. I'm still great friends with with all those guys. I'm hoping to get back out to roaches this year. Maybe cross the streams a little bit and maybe get back to some of the routes commander. But it was just a, you know, a difference in, you know, opinion, really. And and we went our separate ways, you know, willing. So I have a relationship with academy, sports and outdoors one of the sporting goods retailers in the southeast and do a bunch of work with them in their outdoor space. And I love it. Because it's like, you know, hey, we're gonna pay you to come out here, and and go hunting and fishing. All right. Yeah. I love it. Well, one thing that I have appreciated so much is seeing I I was reminded through this relationship. The absolute passion that the outdoors crowd has for being outdoors for hunting edition. Yeah. What do those guys say to you other than hey, man? Can we go Congo hunt? We well. Yeah. That's. That's what we talk about mostly. I mean, I if I had if I had a nickel for every time, you know, another guy in the industry has come up and say, hey, let's go Hon. No one that we will never ever go together. IV a lot more well off that I have out. But yeah, it's they say basically the same thing. Thanks for being a spokesman, thanks for being a voice, you know. Thanks for for, you know, helping us out get across, you know, the the message that, hey, this is for see for me being in the woods is there's less about the harvesting of animal score. It's so cathartic is. So if you know, it's it's where you charge your batteries. It's where you get your big decisions made. I can't tell you. How many big decisions have been made twenty twenty five foot up a tree, you know. And in the fall or the winter. You know, it's just and there you see something different every day every day brings something new around the corner. And, you know, I'm not as I'm not as that at the white fails, if I just go, you know, my first year, but I I I love being in camp with the boys and my wife bow hunt. So that gives us both something to do, you know together, although, you know, with the the new addition to the to the Jones clan here been tougher to get her out. But yeah, something we are in common. And I I can't tell you. How awesome? It was billed to finish. You know, playing too are ball games that year and then leaving the cell phone at home and turning the TV not having a TV and going out and cooking some venison and being a deer camp for a week. It's just so relaxing. It really is. There's nothing really like that feeling. I love it. All right. I got a couple more things, and I'll get you out of here. How has? As the game of baseball evolved. The most from your era to the current era hours Beverly getting worse school. You know, there are a lot of things that, you know, us old time sit up out of the game six years. I'll call them myself an old timer 'cause I don't think I would think it, you know, I would be I would be the the sacred cow so to speak, but I'd be dinosaur in this day and age because you know, some of the things that that relive by the unwritten rules that we live by they're going by the wayside because you know, the the game is teens so much you know mean it's all about home runs and strikeouts. And and just you know, I don't agree with that. You know? Yeah. I like it involve the ballpark as much as anybody. But I want nine guys in my line of that put the ball in play that, you know battle. That that that you know guy. Good all base percentages hit three hundred you know, spray the ball all over those are the guys that I hate it seeing come to come to the plate, you know. And and I think so many offenses these days and basically baseball predicated around the home, and if you know it's been proven for years to get pitching is going to be good. And I if those offenses don't hit the ball how the ballpark. They don't win, you know. And and I said this about the Braves are series with the dodgers of a very the Braves keep the dodgers in the ballpark. They got a chance to feed them, you know, and unfortunately, raise people in the ballpark. You know here you, right? I wouldn't have made it. As a forty year old. I'm saying, okay. What I was on my way out. Now twenty-five probably would have adapted at four years old. I'm a little my ways to be listening to you know, twenty two year old punk, son. Tell me you know, how to play the game last night. You believe is the biggest obstacle the game faces right now. Oh. Money did not hand. I mean, you know, I'm here in thirty million forty million a year, you know, for for certain players whether or not worth it. I don't know. I don't know how anybody, and I don't know how what he's back when I was planning can make his team and be worth it. The the the problem remains the same though when you have one player making that much money or Africa part of you know, one teams race salary. You're gonna have leases, you know. And that's that's where I get back to the point where I was saying that much rather have, you know, nine five six billion dollar players in my everyday life after gradient gutty and came to the ballpark Hungary to play every day as opposed to have it two or three high price guys. And then, you know. Couple of smokes coming out of the bullpen that they can't rely on you. You know what I'm saying? It's hard to to to seal the well round that way, I think we starting to. I think you're starting to see I see weaknesses and pretty much all the tombs that are left. I've seen you know, weaknesses in pretty much all teams throughout the course of the year. It's very very hard. You know, the sets maybe life few Astros weaknesses with them. But I think, you know, going forward with the way money is, and and you know, going out and paying them out of child and the heart and the kershaw's and guys like that. What what the going rate is now, and it's going to be hard for those teams to be able to come, you know, to compete, unless unless their bottom line is going up and up and up and up, which is, you know, not beyond the realm of comprehension either. So I'd like to see the money kind of level itself. We'll see what happens. Yeah. We will one one more a promise this last one right here, you noted the great pitching always beats great hitting which pitcher. Did you hate facing the most? Oh, see. I've always said that the the hardest pitcher. I ever faced just make contact off of with Roger Clemens. I remember one time he was pitching against us in Houston and first inning. I come back in I granted out to shortstop. Like a like a nine fits at bat, and I come back in and I am dripping sweat the roof was closed. I am dripping sweat sit down next to air. Kinski looks dead. Are you? All right. I'm like, he he goes you're sick. I go. No, dude. I just worked my ass off. To put the ball at minot to ground out to shortstop off a plans. You know, he just had. He had great angle. Yeah. Gray stuff yet. Great location, and he was really tough. Now. I mean there guys, you know, Randy Johnson six foot ten coming from first base ugliest hill. You know what? I mean, it was he was one of the guys I hated, and you know, but Pedro, you know, delta against me early on in his career, you know, on on state in the obvious. I'll give you one that. I'll give you two that. We're kind of off the wall that you might not expect Headey. Oh, Nomo the guy who beat me for rookie of the year. Nineteen ninety five I was over twenty seven before. I got my first awesome. What he threw a perfect game against me before I got it off of and then another guy by the name of Woody Williams. Righty with a big hook from St Louis and Toronto I was over twenty to offer him before. I got my first hit. So there's there's kind of off the wall that I hated brother that was fun. I can't thank you enough for your time and insight and since humor and candor what a pleasure. Thank you so much for your time. No problem brother, you take it easy. Right. What an awesome. Awesome storyteller. That guy is I guess I'd better get his book tragedy thing, we should she gives book, we should probably get book. Yeah. We probably should you know, I feel bad. I did not know these amazing stories, and they were right there in print if I would've known had your producer pie done some a little more homework to so I'll take some of the heat for that one too. Well, I'll get the book just to make chip or feel better. I'll get the book I could tell during our conversation. He wanted me to have it. So I will order it off the Amazon, and I will read it on one of the seven thousand planes on which I fly on an annual basis. I looked at my American Airlines frequent flyer miles budget. I'm somewhere north of four hundred fifty thousand or something like that. It's a little bit aggressive at the rate at the right, you fly Debord before the pilot does basically. Yeah, I'm typically one of the first couple of. People on every plane. Yeah. And it's funny because there's an anxiety level that comes with traveling. No matter how often you do it. No matter where you're going. No matter how much time you give yourself even when I'm going somewhere the day before even when I'm flying the day before the assignment, I have a weird feeling in my gut in every airport. I'm not sure why I'm not an anxious person. But I always feel that no matter where I'm going a especially on days that I have an assignment it's a whole other level when I board the plane wearing a suit to go somewhere. If I if I ever board the same plane as you I will pass you buying head to the back on. No, no, you'll be my companion. I get a companion, man. This guy's with me. Come on. Let's do this thing. I love it. By the way. Travis we created a phenomenon on the Marty Miss America podcast with the hashtag. What can y'all got? It is overwhelming. I mean, it's awesome to see how much y'all love your cans Kobe here. I'm a big Kobe guy. In fact, I went to Tuscaloosa Alabama, very recently because I was interviewing the tied players before they go play LSU in the game of the century four point. Oh and go to the bar with a couple of buddies of mine at Bama, and I'm sitting there and the bartender girl comes over. And she just kind of looks at me and turns and points at the refrigerator, that's our canes, and we chose this amber beer, called blue pants, amber. It was absolutely. Off the hook. How good it was had a couple of those talks and ball laughed cut up and your response guys to the hashtag. What can y'all got has floored me Travis? What do you think I'm loving? It me too, dude. I love beer cans. I I like to art. I like the thought process that goes into the beer cans. I love the names of the beer's me too. They are so smart. I mean, they're so witty and so- crafty how about that for a little play on words. And so crafty, and I just enjoy I don't know what it is about it. But I'm I'm sorta I'm really into the beer can arms race as it were. We just need to get into it. We do need to get into it. You're right. I think we should have the mardi party brewery, and we need to get some we need to partner with one of y'all one of the breweries out there. I know y'all listen. So let's partner up. Let's have a mardi party bear. It's probably going to be amber, it can match my hair, we could call it. The we could call it ginger ale. I haven't even thought of that. I made that up off top my head Travis. That's pretty good. So y'all call us and speaking of amazing calls that have to do with what can jaw got and co bear Rollet the mardi party. Man. Audi mari. Traveling. I know Mari you at asked oh viewers here too. Share what kind of cans, we were all drinking. Well. I'm of confused right now. I'm not confused of what I'm drinking. I know what I'm Greg in it coming out of a stubby bottle, which I apologize for the no asking for cans, but from drinking the brunt wiser copper lager. And they're saying that they take the Budweiser. And they put it in all barrels, a gen bane. Now. I may be from the great one north. But. I can't figure out if I like it or not I'm minded tomorrow morning's probably going to be a town outside. I got sixty bad boys already ingested. So there might be a rough morning tomorrow. So I I might have to call y'all back and giving you an update, but. It don't look that bear. Live that bad. Hell any bear looks pretty good. But this is a Budweiser Jim bean beer. Hey, ain't that bad. I'll know. I don't know. If you guys got down here, we get strange stuff up here in Canada. But. Have you have you heard of that Jim beam? Budweiser beer. It's different anyway custody air. Well, appreciate the fact that that was a little bit of a therapy session. Travis we he talked himself from the beginning of the call to the end of the call into the fact that he liked it. And not only did he talk himself into the fact that he liked it. He talked himself into the fact that it looked good. That's might be one of my favorite costs. I mean, he was Fugard that that. Oh boy. Right. There was a I mean, he was full blown out that was a cloud cover. There was no partly cloudy to it. I bet his next morning was a hurricane. Forget partly cloudy. A full blown storm event came through his brain next morning. You have the room was spinning for him the next morning big time big time. And I like how he so he says it's Budweiser and bean combined that is a redneck cocktail of epic proportions on might have to try that. I almost got one this past week. And when I was in Tallahassee by opted not. Two-night now. Now seeing this call I wish I would have. So I could've added some information to it. Well, I'm going to LSU Alabama. What acquaint you're going to LSU Alabama. So we might just have to try to find one of those. What do you call it? Budweiser copper or something. Copper logger and has seen the logo has like Jim beam like honor to all right. I'm gonna try on. We'll try as mock my goal this week in life is try that Colbert. And I will report back, and I need you guys to continue the phenomenon continue San and Travis in me, your what can y'all got cold beers? We love to see him hashtag. What can y'all got at Marty? Smith ESPN at Travis rock hold. And I forward them on any you guys who are participating in. This can see I'm showing the whole free world these awesome beers. And it is just I don't know why. I just love to study the cans my whole fridge. I got a fridge downstairs in. In my basement name man area with all my football helmets and NASCAR memorabilia and whatnot. I have so many different interesting kinds of local Charlotte beers where I live because I mean, if I'm going to have one I'm going to have a real good one. If I'm gonna have fifteen at a tailgate or something, then I'm going something domestic lighting cold. You know, if we have this beer in LSU, this is for work. So I'm allowed to technically be on the clock when we're drinking. Then is that is that how it works? I think so I think that works for me now that would probably be a question for Louise. But I think as far as I'm concerned if I was the boss, yes. And we're still trying to put together the mardi party fits program where Jason and I have a couple of too many and call commentator football game. That is coming at some point. I'm thinking national championship. Why not let me I seems like it's good a game as any. I I. I appreciate you guys listening. Thank you so much for being invested in this Marty. Smith's America podcast? It's the joy of our lives to get to do it. We'll get to hang out people like Chipper Jones. Thanks so much Chipper for his hilarious, storytelling. His great insight on the game where he believes the game is right now and just just getting to spend time with a guy like him a legend who I've watched play since I was in high school and thanks to Travis. Appreciate you getting Chipper Chivers. Does a great job guys of getting us all some guests. Thanks to Louise who still crazy enough to keep putting us out there to keep allowing us to to make this podcast for you guys. Thanks so much to Indochino for being invested in it as well, y'all go to Indochino dot com, promo code, mardi, get yourself a custom suit you need to do that. So you look good and fresh here in the fall, y'all call us as you can tell we get some interesting calls on the hillbilly hotline. We'd like to. Hear your take on anything. If you're at LSU Bama this weekend. And you've had a couple of too many you call us eight six zero five one six one three one five that's eight six zero five one six thirteen fifteen hit us on the hillbilly hotline. No matter what you won't talk about. It. Doesn't matter. There's a deer grazing outback tell us about it been for you to be tuned up a little bit get a couple of beverages. Any before you give us a call. We're the ones that we are the one avenue that you have that you can call while you've had a couple too many. When you're getting good in tune to where you can you can expound upon your philosophical approach. We are your avenue. We love it. Call us eight six zero five one six thirteen fifteen and thanks so much to our military domestically and all around the world for what you guys do. It's appreciated more than you could ever know. We're. Free. For reason, y'all be good. We'll see you next time around. Thanks for listening. This is Marty. Smith's America podcast?
Special Edition: Jefferson Hack on Why The World Must Not Be Complacent
"They all of a sudden this past week the way people have been using social media has really changed absolutely we set on values and that's being played out in social media. You know where we had a purpose before. Now it's really about focusing that clarity of culture thrives sometimes in situations like this is vital at this time because they dream the future for us you know they create the roadmap of how we are GonNa get out of here because they can provide hope in a time of hopelessness. Hi. This is Imran at founder and CEO of the business of fashion and welcome to another special edition of the podcast. Today I sit down. Virtually with Jefferson Hack founder Updates Media Jefferson and I have been able to have conversations over the past decade about the role of media. And there's probably no more important time to that conversation then now as we're all navigating the unfolding humanitarian crisis caused by this Pandemic which has now reached more than one hundred and seventy countries around the world with more than four hundred thousand infections and tens and tens of thousands of people who have died so. What's the role of fashion media in this context? And how do we? As independent media companies navigate the situation. What is the impact that we can have during this uncharted time? That's what I speak to. Jefferson up on this special episode. So here's Jefferson Hack inside Fashion Jefferson. Hey Ron how're you man? I'm here I'm happy to be talking to you and Thanks for inviting me. To be on the coast. Yeah no it's a pleasure to talk. You know actually. I was thinking this morning back to my very first interview with you that we did. Do you remember at the Sanderson Hotel. Oh that was a long time ago. That was our first. Theo F live event and ever and we had the conversation and it was rolling out on twitter and people were sending questions from all around the world. And this this is Kinda the same except you and I can't sit together But I'm really glad to have the chance to talk to you. I mean so are you doing you know I'm well. I'm in good health My immediate family are in good health. Everyone's kind of say an isolation my staff in good health has no. I'm a director emergencies taking place amongst the employees or In days media so for that. I'm just really grateful for that I feel blessed and you know as far as what's happening in the wider world and what's happening with Corona Virus Of course you know I mean. Words cannot really describe it. I think I find words quite inadequate to describe what's going on but you know if I had to pick one word. It would be about kind of adapt adopting adopting with old of the changing circumstances. That going on so I guess on a personal level. That's where I'm at but yet is going to be a lot to talk about in this Picasso. I'll let you do you know how are you? I'm good also healthy and grateful and taking some time out every day to make space for some meditation and reflection and a walk in the park. Because we're still allowed to do that here in London and you know like you. I'm just kind of grappling with what's happening. There's so many different perspectives. There's so much information which is kind of when I thrive actually making sense of information overload But I find my brain is operating at a speed and a and a intensity level that is unusually high and so I'm trying to make sure I take those moments to pause and stop and reflect It's good it's good advice. I think you know it's the same for everybody. I mean it's as much as if it's a pandemic Susan Info Democ. You know we're kind of overwhelmed with information stotts all the different opinions analysis speculations and You know I think without kind of practicing self care. It's incredibly easy to kind of get sucked into things like fierro high brings. It or doing things that are harmful just to distract ourselves from the reality of what's going on and I think that's really kind of like natural human reactions. You hit on some really important points. I think you know that some of the things that we're really trying to inspire our audience with seventeen million Digital audience across the world across platforms. And you know one of the most immediate thing is is really the kind of you know the mental health awareness and just being able to be effective as a media in being able to influence people's Moods. I mean we can change the way people feel all that moves through the stories and the tone of the stories that we published so no. That was a a an incredible kind of role that media. Compla- in in this time of crisis all type of media specifically you and I were exchanging text messages the other day about you know how companies like ours independent media companies in this kind of global industry. Like what's what's our role and I'm I'm really curious to well. Yeah I mean that was exactly it. We were like texting each other. Because it's all about reaching out out right. It's all about you know being in touch with each other as independent media as a people in the industry who are active who are part of the community of people in in in in kind of in fashion in the UK in globally and an culture. And that's all I've been doing since this has been really becoming more and more of a crisis and I think that's that's what we've got is kind of our connections and are connected and staying connected as a huge a huge part of this the way that we're going to manage to navigate this. Yeah I wanted to start there actually so you know when when did the kind of penny drop for you that this was going to become you what it's become this kind of unprecedented situation in kind of a kind of modern in the last hundred years at least maybe since the Spanish flu and what was your initial reaction of how to manage it as the leader of this this media company possible level. You know I was still a woman fashion week into Paris fashion week. I didn't finish the week up but you know things are becoming much more evidence during that week that did this was becoming incredibly serious and Some of the myths were flying around with being busted. And some clarity was coming to the kind of you know. Health impact that this was going to have an and what was going to be needed by government in order to deal with that so you know. I think it wasn't really till Mellon went into lockdown that it really kind of began to be real and hearing the stories firsthand from clients and friends in Milan about what they were going. Through in lockdown really started helping inform a lot of our thinking at days so that's really the the unprecedented we had in the only way to recognize that it was well. You know that it was that it was likely to get much more serious but you know I think these things are always understood in hindsight and in the moment you know you always think oh well you know it might be contained. There might not come here. Things might not be as bad for us you know. I think that's part of kind of that was part of that was part of my early thinking but you know we. We reacted pretty quickly. I think is a as a media company before the government were telling people to Work will not clubs. We you know we already told staff to work from a meter ready during Paris fashion week. We telling our staff that if it wasn't essential for them to come into the office that they weren't required to come to the office because we wanted to keep people say so. Yeah that's the kind of thing and then when when it really became evident you know. I think our media reaction was one of you know this is a global state of emergency now and you know we have to face a humanitarian health. Disaster that You know we can be helpful and useful in In using some of our resources in some of our media to point directly to that. And we have judy of KETCHAOUA staff. So We'd been working on managing that and managing their work from home situation and then there's a carrying consideration for our audience which we just touched on before and really when we were texting. It was all about kind of understanding with questions we were. We were kind of In discussion about was like. What is the role of of media in this new reality? Yeah what what is our purpose now and I think you know where we had puppies before. Now it's really about focusing the clarity of purpose making sure that the row we're playing in the daily life of our audience is really bringing value absolute value and I think the speed of adaptation tation to the change in audience. Behavior is critical. Because otherwise you're out of sync you'll totally out of sync so the first thing we did is you. Don't get everyone together all the different media platforms and I you know. Ask Them To will redefine the clarity of purpose. In light of that channel's full full this time of crisis that exercised greater to kind of manifesto were set of a set of short You know we we cool. Today's Media Com. Will you know they gave it different formats? And that gave kind of a reference point for everyone for everything to ladder up to then it was about getting the data and insights on our audience changing behavioral. Luckily we have an amazing ability to have a real time feedback loop in terms of understanding where our audiences are you know looking at all the analytics and data on their behavior. So we're able to then inform the new formats and new ideas. That we're rolling out initiatives. Were rolling out and to to be honest. The first thing we we wrote out was not something was you know designed for this moment because how the fuck you do that you know what we wanted to do was actually just say you know what are you. What are you want? What are you feeling what's going on for you And actually open up days with a project could alone together where we really asked. Our audience financing put first so that we could find the appropriate creative tools and stories to be able to interact with them So tell me in that feedback loop which I think is super important for digital media. And that's kind of one of the things that sets digital media apart from say traditional print media. What did you learn in that in that loop right away? In terms of how people's behavior was changing it's interesting we allot very very quickly I mean some of it is commonsense so you know the immediate thing is a focus on values authenticity and I think that something that be applied now to every form of brand communication. You know. It's all now. Values anticipate Some kind of other insights that we that we got around things like the way that say fashion product news was less relevant to our audience. But you know cultural information. Obviously the news. The news around Corona is on the media interest. Because it's directly you know. It's it's the news right but other things like wanting cultural information and to enter in connect with culture is kind of move out to everyone. We found a huge spike on on our cultural programming. And I think that's a direct reaction to Kinda coach being ineffective kind of canceled from the you know from the physical people being able to interact with their physically. I think we'll you know one of the things we've done with without data and insights would have gotten into it too much on this cool because it's a it's a sort of As detail that what we're doing is we're actually offering it to some of our kind of key. Partners are key institutional partners you know galleries museums. You know record labels etc and also some of our Brand partners so that we can be process of sharing information data understanding Anna according to a You know a kind of data cat package that with putting together for our some of our clients got it. How are your clients responding in this situation because this is unprecedented for a company like days? But it's also unprecedented for all of the companies that you partner with you know some of which are like big international organizations you. How do you sense there Navigating all of this because you know when you when you read kind of the marketing press and the advertising press. They're talking about huge. Advertising budget cuts. They're you know layoffs soon. There's a lot of stuff going on in some of these organizations. So what's your sense of how these kinds of companies a wide range of with which you as an organization partner with our they navigating all of this. Well I think the immediate response of the big brands to focus on the humanitarian health. Disaster has been pretty impressive compared to a lot of other industries. You know so. The you know the making of mosques their native surgical equipment. The you know making a hand sanitizer equipment. This would've direct kind of immediate impact. Those kind of initiatives can make on saving lives as you know has been by large great to see from from big brands moving quickly and mobilizing resources quickly. And I think they'll be a lot more of that to come. The issue really is going to be on the on. The smaller brands young businesses young designers. I think that that we need to be you. Know A. They'll need to be a designer relief. Fund that will have to be established not create the necessary funding for them to be able to continue to be trading. It's not you know that that kind of part of the industry with you know issues around retail issues around supply. Chain that are affecting designers. It's not my specialty. But you know it's kind of it's kind of evidence to see that. That's that's the case I think. On the whole you know it's going to be a massive contraction. There is no doubt about it right so you know. No one expects to go back to business as usual. There is no business as usual after this. We are in a period where there's no roadmap for this. This is uncharted territory. So I think we're expecting to you know have a a massively contracted industry where you know. Things will be done with a lot less success with a lot less excess. And you know they'll be smaller collections. It'll be a whole new way of of of a presenting them to media into the market. That has to be. This is now. There's no way that it can go back to fashion weeks. Not Look the same ever again. and you know we have to adapt to that so the one of the one of the immediate things that we're doing is cancelling the summer issue taken that old online flipping the script and doing a regenerated issue and really reflecting the reality of our audiences lives in the crate. Community will be acquitted. Community in talent will be plugged into that but they will be. They will be kind of into woven with our readers stories. Nothing that's really and that's really an interesting digital first project for our team to be working on during this period and and we'll go back to a physical print release for four with another another man days. But you know the you know. I'm not expecting the same. Never have advertising. I mean it's GonNa be radically reduced and you know. I think the point right now with with all the conversations I'm having with brands is that way. We're not talking about a appetizing really we're not talking about advertising all transactional things about how do we support each other? What's important for you? What's important for our audience? What's important for your audience? Those insights aligned. Can we help each other? Can we help each other and support each other audiences together and then through that maybe down the line there will be opportunities to carry on Doing Business But I think it's about getting real right now. All it's about is just being real and it's about having real conversations on a real level on a human level with each other saying you know what people need. I'LL BE RELEVANT TO THEIR NEEDS. And if so how can we give them more of that entity more of that value proposition? That's going to have an actual tangible make a tangible difference to their lives in in in a period of crisis and then post post the initial shock in a period where it can be adapting to this new reality and we have to. We're really doing the law. I mean you know because like I said speed for media is really really key we have to be in lockstep with our audience rose on the on the humanitarian side on the practical side of this emergency. One of the things we've been doing is campaigning. Really hard for the government to recognize the needs of the freelance and self employed in fifty percent of the creative industries. Workforce is self employed as a huge chunk of our industry is not a employed with p. a. y. e. status by APP in a anybody and this is photography is photography makeup a styling journalists editors you know digital Talents endless you know and it's also designers it's It's everyone on the on the design and other people on the design side. So you know. There's no protection for them right now. government haven't come forward and off. It is a any kind of fund. So you know I've been accessing my my Contacts three days through my personal contacts to get those Petition signed to get out to get as many people to sign them in posted to get people note to sign them so that we can put as much pressure on government to make a the best package possible for the freelance and soap employed. Yeah I mean I understand. This is a problem all around the world. Actually I mean. I've been in touch as well with creative people all around you know Europe and North America and Asia and everyone's kind of in the same boat. I wonder if there's a silver lining here I was reading you know. I'm sure if you saw that story we published on this morning. About what magazines are doing in this time. And of course Of course you know. Many of the people we spoke to are thinking about the humanitarian crisis That we are facing in all around the world especially the hot hot spot right now in Italy Which kind of led the story this morning but I was really interested to see that some people were already finding ways to be creative in a new way bound to their homes. Know doing shoots or working with their roommates. Our partners and and trying to find ways of being creative now. I wondered if you had any perspectives or stories or things that you've heard about how the creative people that you're connecting to or you're connected to are are are finding ways to still be creative in this environment because culture doesn't stop you know culture thrives sometimes in situations like this. I mean you know when when creatives are challenged when they given restrictions extreme restrictions than you know there's a kind of rebound and you know there is a this is a time of heightened emotions time pint sensitivity which will always creates a a great reaction. You know I remember interviewing can shoot. Sit Smell was right my best albums when I'm either in heartbreak or whether when I'm falling in love but I never brought my best albums when I'm just kind of like integrate relationship and it's not so you know we we we we just going through the biggest shock event our lifetime. And you know it's A. It's a massive wakeup cool to grated. People in it's in a massive energizer in some ways to to creativity although the restrictions Extremely Limited but Thera- and there will be an will continue to be innovation and creative responses that will bring you know new aesthetics new perspectives artists. Avital at this time. Because they dream the future for us you know they create roadmap of how we are going to get out of it because they can provide hope in a time of Hukou business they can provide you know imagination in a time of a feeling that it's the end of the world when it's not they can you know. I think Ben Okri beautiful piece in the F. T. About this is the time when we need more than ever last weekend and it was a great kind of rallying cool to the creative community but it was also you know an important message to government and to society as a whole that you know right now the other great threat that we're facing this would a serious secondary threat if you like outside of the immediate threat of the health issue corona virus in the economic threat of You know This recession might lead into something. Even more extreme is the is the threat of culture being canceled. You know and when you know one of the places where culture thrives in cities so you know. You're you're bars you theaters you. Art Spaces your Creative spaces you will places where music can be performed with. Music can be played where you know. Don's can happen etc in order. That is in serious threat of being removed from the cityscape. You know all of the people who are employed in those who are self-employed. Aw freelances or who? Are you know autism creatives to You know in that kind of self employment when that when that becomes compromised so real. It's a real threat to coach. So you know. We're pushing that to be recognized by society so that can be an empty for it can be an understanding of the value of it you know without a thriving culture we quickly revert to using a sense of humanity. It's five to twelve cents if humanity and fashions a big part of that. But you know it for me. It's a wider cultural a point of view. Because I know I don't know if you noticed. Some of the listeners might not know that I'm also on the board at the Creative Industries Federation which is which is the you know I'm not being group. That works fool brings together. Would of the different Quite industries in the UK and together. It's a it's a really a it's it's it's always the biggest story And I think right. Now with the Navy we need solidarity between the creative industries Because you know and solidarity is a key word for how we move forward in dealing with all of this because in a world in this together in no industry is kind of more or less affected within the greatest sector. You Know Jefferson. I was I was reading that essay that you wrote or that was published in December on. What you call the chaotic. Two Thousand Ten's and it seems to me like you know what we're talking about now is also linked back to that essay in you referenced The Society of the spectacle written by Guy Debord in nineteen sixty seven where society is so consumed by the idea of spectacle. You write that. It could no longer differentiate the authentic from the real fiction from fact commodities from ideas. And it just made me think that you know this this reset that we're all having gives us a chance to actually take a step back and have perspective on these ten years that have gone by really reflect on what we want culture to be defined by going forward and you know it's been interesting for me to see social media In the kind of timespan before all of this happened was already. You know seriously being questioned as you know a kind of a media that was creating all sorts of issues in our in our in our world in politics and culture in society and all of a sudden this past week the way people have been everything. Media has really changed. You know. It's it's providing this opportunity for connection and I really liked that phrase that you in your tame came up with called alone together because we all are kind of alone sitting in our homes and apartments and all over the place but somehow it's enabled us to be together to through social media. So you could you talk a little bit about that essay because I thought it was really powerful and then kind of how you see that essay now in light of what. We're all going through alone together. Yeah well I think your point about the kind of shift in perspective is is really and the shift in in The the actual way that young people uncreative people using social media is is absolutely right. I mean it will. Most feel is a kind of renaissance digital renaissance happening in social media. Because finally now that things are in such shop relief and people are really in need of of authentic connection even for even for fun even that getting on House policy. You know just to kind of be able to connect with you'll immediate group of people lawyer in isolation and just kind of you know maybe have fun all all whatever the absolutely is a kind of a reset on values and I think that's being played out in social media whether it continues to Develop and deepen and become a kind of Result in kind of new consciousness is totally possible. And I think there's lots of to to look at and help kind of catalyze. That is little things that you know on a practical level and on kind of creative level that will help catalyze that but certainly like the kind of role models. We're looking at now types of a story tending the types of tone of voice. The way people were sharing in using social media all of this is is changing really rapidly. What was you know what was kind of acceptable? Seen as cool or seen as influential before corona virus is certainly You know You know he's being questioned now and some of that looks ridiculous and then things but at the same time things that seemed impossible for virus now seem possible. I'm one of those. Things is the power of you know social media to accidentally in a bring a lot of positivity healing and so sold back into our daily routine look. I also think it's any amount of time if we're GONNA to spend too much time on screens it's not good for us. You know when I spoke to people in in lockdown in Italy you are now in the third week that tweak and you know you can't spend your time on as much as it connects us you know it also doesn't limit and I think in the UK win day. Two of lockdown was still getting used to the psychological effects of it. And I think it's going to be very very tough for other people for a very very long time. And so you know I think when you talk about silver linings. I think you know. I don't WanNa seem to accept privilege. You know as well in this. You know the that. We're not on the front line of this. You know in all you know. We're not eating when I'm not working in a hospital. I'm not like I'm working as a meteorologist for Media Group you know also you know there are other. There are other examples of that. The the weaken nist where we have to kind of accept all privilege and and so also you know the thing about kind of future predicting how things are gonNA come out. I think it's just about staying in the moment and staying in the kind of extreme present if you like with what's going on and not trying to make too many predictions about the future. You know I I I. I hope that you know Humanity will prevail. And that will be really really you know like you say a reset will allow for a new set of values to come from this but whether they hold on I think is really is really. What's in question? I think about those the care. Really doubling down on making sure there's messages and those kind of Ideas are heavily promoted at this time and continued to be in the fusion. No I think that's those are all very good points and I think that the The really hard thing right now is that we don't know how long this is really going to last as you say. It's an uncharted territory. We have no idea about the the length. We have no idea about the severity and so making any predictions right now as much as everyone wants to. Everyone's talking about after corona after corona posts corona. But we're still at the very beginning of what I think is going to be probably one of the most signal singular defining moments of our lives. You know and trying to understand what you nine. Eleven for example was going to mean twenty years later was impossible at the time that it all happened because we were all just trying to understand it and I think I have the same set of emotions now in feelings now as I did back then because it's just so hard to make sense of everything and I think your point is well about the people on the front lines is absolutely critical. I mean my sister Is a doctor and you know. Just hearing stories from her about what's going on at the hospital. She's at in in Canada. And you know it really brings home one that this is a global thing. an to that. You know those of us who have the privilege of sitting at our homes in isolation Protecting ourselves and also protecting people out there. I mean a lot of the frontline workers in this in this battle. This don't have that luxury. It which is why. I think it's been so good to see our industry stepping up to to focus their manufacturing efforts on creating some of this personal protective equipment and mass and whatnot. Yeah one of the first things I did is. I reached out to one of my business partners in Hong Kong Adrian. Chang you probably know yeah. I saw the announcement today about what he's been able to do. That was that was great. Yeah we he's. He donated ten million Hong Kong dollars worth of surgical equipment to the Hong Kong disaster relief. And you know we've We announce looking about him donating one billion mosques to Europe Talking to you know various industry bodies and government about ways in which to effectively distribution to the most vulnerable. But you know these kind of immediate the immediate kind of concerns right now but you know I do. I do think that culture is a is at threat at a moment right now as well and that's why as kind of urgency to reach out to everybody that's why there's emergency cap conversations like this as quickly as possible and put them up as quickly as possible because we need to identify what the what the solutions and you know really the part of the problem or you're part of the solution is kind of very black and white now if you were if you were meteorite Right now if you will a brand owner if you had any influence a tool and you sitting this out waiting to see what happens and you'll part of the problem you know part of the solution because it's all about action right now and it's all about. What positive action. Can you take to influence your community to work with your community and to really really stem the big threats that are happening to festival health? Second to coach you know to society. I mean I'm not putting say Health Society coacher these. These are the things that are. These are the things that are risk. The economy's risk of course but this very little that we can really do about you know and you know. I think we can campaign. We can Say won't we need and what we expect from government. So you know I think right now off futures up Being decided and I think the action that we take has to be immediate. And I think that's where the kind of you know importance of connecting with everybody. Firstly our readers. Our audience really understanding what their needs are connecting with each other is business owners and business leaders and connecting with those of influence. Our talent our you know our kind of talent global talent network is so important. One of the things I've been doing law is also speaking to people in China while you've been through a set cycle of corona virus to really see what we can learn from The audience in China and from the experiences of the Acoustic is there were days China And now nece and their insights have been really helpful in some cases You know and we're also able to share those with without brand partners as well so you know I think it some is note. There's no room for complacency right now. You now it's it's you know as much as the Quila is our king. Everybody else needs to be working on finding on being part of the solution. Yeah well I think that's that's a really good note to conclude on and I I'm really grateful for your time and always for your intellect and your your ideas because I think There's something in there for everyone who's listening I wish you and the team dazed. Well as we continue to navigate all of this and I look forward to stay connected with you through this so we can keep in touch and share our our learnings along the way because I think as you said. I think this is just the beginning so thanks Jefferson. Thanks Ron and look you know. Hopefully we'll we'll be together invoices in November fingers. Crossed BY KNOWS. Future is uncertain but every day is day to play for for the future. So you know. Don't get complacent and Things tough which they are going to get increasingly tough for everybody. I think we just have to hold onto hope optimism and recognized that you know in in a crisis really is dignity. And that's that's kind of my message really. Well it's a powerful message so thanks again This is Imran Ahmed founder and CEO of the business of fashion another special episode of the Bureau podcast focusing on helping our industry our community The people were connected to navigate the crisis that's unfolding all around the world. We've been speaking to our favorite thinkers futurists experts to provide you with additional guidance and information and perspectives on how various industries and experts are are navigating this so hopefully you'll keep joining us for these ad hoc special episodes that were releasing as soon as we record them. Just because we want to keep all of you informed and we WANNA keep information fresh. Thanks for joining us and stay tuned for more on. If you've enjoyed this episode don't forget to subscribe give us a rating and you might be interested in joining the business of fashion global membership community. Be Off professional are members receive exclusive deep dive analysis regular email briefings as well as unlimited access to our archive of over ten thousand articles. Our NEW IPHONE APP by annual special print editions and all of the online courses and learning materials from be off education.
"Hi I'm Brad Dorothy. My name is calling salmon all Jennifer going on this Katie sack off. Hey It's Greg Grunberg. My name is Gareth Edwards. My name is Neville Pigeon Concept Designer in film. Hello. My Name. Is Matt Brewer and welcome to sci-fi talk? Hi this is Tony Tomato. Welcome to sci-fi talk and today I have mono n Que Mais who you might remember from Star Trek Voyager. Playing each on that series. It seems like a while ago and it has been a while. But you've been a busy man you've gone into producing and directing. Was that a natural evolution for you to kind of go in that direction. Yeah it sort of dawns on you when you reach thirty that if you don't stop producing your own material Hollywood's going to forget about you and it's true if you look at all like the the the a-list actors every single one of them ninety nine percent at least our producers as well And Oh yeah is their own material Find their own scripts etc They have their own companies and so at thirty I produced my first Benjamin trouble and just been naturally you know I also act outside of producing still but Sure definitely want to continue to produce and hopefully This year direct. Yeah it's it's sort of a natural process in the evolution of an actor if you WanNa keep your career through going for Throughout your lifetime. Now let's talk about before we talk about the past. There's a lot going on in the present. Zeno Phobia is that. Is that your latest film. That's how I didn't produce it but it is my latest film. That's how a wonderful little Oman has to like the eighty s Horror films where they used all practical effects and it's basically five abductions And the the movie is is based around a group of like alien abductees meet each week to help each other feel with what they're experiencing and you get five stories that these people go through and the leader of the group is this weird guy played by me who wears like a tin foil under is under his hat. Super Conspiracy theorist and that ball and It's fun it's like you know if you love but if you like that eighty style visual effects that was the whole point of making the movie was to go back to practical effects. Latex and foam and Rubber and blood and and slime instead of computer generated. We'd just premiered in fact on the first and it was really really fun film to watch later because it doesn't take itself too seriously and Lot of lot of laughs and a lot of scares and just a Lotta Fun. If you're into that kind of moving yeah there's nothing like watching it after you work on it with an audience. That's gotta be an amazing experience and you always cross your fingers talking other actors that everybody laughs at the right places and get scared at the right places but when it all comes together it's nice. Yeah and xenophobia. I only worked on it for two days. They shop out really quick. But my but my you know my story is what connects the whole film so they keep cutting back to me leading the group right right and so. I didn't really know how the film was going to turn. I was super nervous when I went to the premier 'cause I was like I anything I decided to do promote and I was like. Oh my God there's just GonNa be a horrible horrible thing movie. It is a B. movie but it's a fantastic movie. That was really I was well. I was really happy that I had done it. And the people behind it are really good people and it was just a good night and hopefully people see the movie. It's available anywhere you stream movies now Yeah if you stay movies there just type in uniform. Yeah that'll pop. It's a different world now. That's for sure. Another one that you are in but also executive produces circuit kinda tells a little bit about that one. Yeah the circuit is a project that we started five years ago on it and the and the and originally it was going to be an anthology series based around ten stories that happened at a start at a science fiction convention and we were going to do ten different genres of movie that that take place there and we did a kick starter for it and we got a bunch of great actors together for it from the SCI FI universe but we didn't hit our goal so we decided to to restructure and then it became the ten stories that happen at this City called Irby. So which is this? Futuristic Mega City of the future like pictured judge dredd. You know when they had those just he's the size of countries and so we were going to do ten stories that take place there then. When we hit our goal suddenly investors got involved and we decided that we were gonNA shoot a feature length episode. One it's aside it's hilarious. It's sort of a cross between The first episode is sort of a cross between a galaxy quest and Shaun of the dead Okay a bunch of has been. I can't I don't want to say too much but a bunch of Has Been Actors from the greatest science fiction show. Honor basically have to relive their final episode in the future. And this time it's for real and it's it's really really funny but we we've been banging we had a screenplay competition and all these plays came in and then we read the mall and we pick the best one and then it changed a million times and I had a bunch of different writers. Write it because I don't I never wanted to go forward with this thing until with any production until the screenplay is solid and we have we finally have a solid screenplay I'm really excited. So OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF MONTHS. We'll be looking just finished financing outside of crowd funding and then she the the the first episode. What's I mean? What's that like for filmmakers now in particular in your case? I mean we knew were on Star Trek. It was a whole different world and now because of crowd funding The audience literally getting more involved and and putting their money where their mouth is literally now What's that like as an actor and also as you know the executive producer trying to get something like that off the ground? That's a lot of work you know it's an and then what happens is like when when I went to do the circuit the first time around. I was almost sure because of the actors that I had involved. We've got we've got People from the Hobbit and the Star Wars and Star Trek and bounce star Galactica farscape and. Mostly it's just all these different great actors if you go to the circuit film Dot Com. You can see everybody that's involved. Ryan Eagle that. But you know from the blacklist and just a great performance and Black Klansman. We just had all these really well known guys so I thought Hey. We'll raise the million bucks easy forceful shoot this film. But we didn't. We raised one hundred thousand which was still great but we had a film shoot. I've been living for the past ten years in the two to three million dollar world To the five dollar worlds not only as a producer but as an actor. I've been in a lot of these films or associate producer on these films and it's really really hard to get a good movie in the can and finished or in the drive these days. It's not even in the can cause there's no anymore. Yeah let to get it finished into end to have it be high quality and and something that the audience is proud to put their money behind is really hard to do for less than a million bucks so we got that first hundred thousand and we're getting really close to the budget that we actually need to do the whole feature at basically. My plan is in the next two months. If we don't financing I'm just GONNA shoot the first thirty minutes film and call it episode one And then go back to the crowd funding but I really prefer after a couple of years time now since we ran the kickstarter to to give the people a feature film that they can be proud of so the website is circuit film Dot Com for people. Yeah check it out. And there's people like Doug Jones under current star Trek Terry Farrell Rene Aubergine Wa who I totally love and Corey Namic from the Stargate World Robert Beltran from Voyager G G F from Farscape Ethan Phillips from a Star Trek Voyager and also John Billingsley. From enterprise and not to mention timber. Us An arm in chairman and yourself and even Dr who so vaster. Mccoy's in you too. So it's yeah and it's a. Who's WHO's tastic. He plays the yeah. He's great withered in in the Hobbit. Yes that's right. His name Rattigan radicalized brown or something like that. She was on that sled. That's all I remember. Yeah it would be weird funny but it was great. Yeah he's such a good actor and and that was the other thing that was really challenging is all these actor friends of mine trusted me to do this thing and then to write a screenplay that they could all be in was like. Oh my God. How many characters can be in. What movie Yeah without without somebody having having to step aside smaller role so we came. We came up with the concept and I. It took a long time. But we're really happy with with what we have. And I think people are really gonNA love. The tentative title is Star Crew Episode one bizarre boxer verbiage ESA but that may not be the title in the end because things always change and while you're of course the distributor might WanNa Simpler title but I like big long title and we also have some interest from some legitimate a-list actors to play One of the lead roles which just the captain of this crew of you know like the basically told you the concept of of the show from some actual real top talent that can hold the center of the poster for so. It's going to be an exciting. I'd be remiss if I didn't mention one of my favorite Klingons and Robert O'Reilly and another favourite Klingon. Jj Hertzler to to to great guys. Talent is absolutely amazing on this APP. So I certainly wish you the best of luck with that so we still have more with mono we'll take a short break and we'll be right back we'll be back in cheer into hi there. I'm James Do and author of be me up Scotty and also another book called rising which is a fiction one and you're listening to Sifi talk with Tony. Delgado you got it back here on Scifi. Talk there's something I have to ask you before we get into star. Trek is renegades. A very interesting concept has started out as star Trek renegades and I know that Tim was behind his I even interviewed him about this When it was still star Trek renegades and then essentially paramount changed the guidelines for fan films. But I don't call this a fan film because I kind of call this as the the semi pro ball a fan films where you have a lot of professional actors in it you know including yourself but what was it like to just drop the star trek part of it and just go renegades. I it was also a lot of professional crew to we had been not just the actress but the entire crew right. That's really talented You know Hollywood nor normal. Cg guys and the DP and etc set design all those type of jobs were done by people who just loved Star Trek and wanted to be a part of something that wasn't star Trek anymore but was essentially still very very star Trek. We just we had to drop all the names and take off anything that could be. 'cause 'cause episode wanted already came out called. Star. Trek renegades out was ever so yeah renegades so we just had to dietrich it and it was. I had no car and because I didn't produce that film. I os just acting in it but it was where I write. It was interesting to me to see how they did it. And it was smart. How they went about Following just to the to the to the t you know just to the edge of the legalities of it. They were really really intelligent with the way that they did that. And I thought it was. I thought it was a great move and instead of being you know suit by paramount and nothing coming out Sky and Tim were smart enough to find a way to make a movie for everybody. With the the 'cause they had raised quite a significant amount of money as well too. Yeah Oh yeah. Absolutely that they were able to deliver. And that's the thing about crowd funding. That's so depressing. Is that so so many productions that End Up not getting made or not getting finished or and then it. It really sort of muddies the water for everybody that doing something that they're going to deliver on a lot of people are never made a movie before so they crabs under then they realized how difficult it actually is to make a feature film that they think they can make one for twenty thousand dollars and then they find out. That's about what today's shooting costs as I understand. That was Walter Kanaan's last appearance on film. I think he's pretty much retired at this point Well he's still a part of the circuit with us as long as he he is. Yeah he hasn't read the screenplay yet but I I absolutely still walter to be a part of it I Okay Months. But few months ago he was still on the team so How good gearing as as as a check. Yeah but he. Yeah in the movie I he's One I. He's one of my favorite personalities in the Star Trek World. I really like that guy. Oh Yeah Yeah Yeah. He's can't wait. And IT'S THE RE. They're renegades in the first place was it was kind of checkoff signing off Sorry and and I wanted to see him get a heroic storyline and to be there to watch a film. That was A humbling an exciting moment. I thought it was an interesting idea to kind of. Go to kind of circumvent starfleet and and and do something You know well renegade So I thought that was neat. I thought it was a good way to to kind of bring the Star Trek concept a little more today but still keep the beliefs and everything but just kind of spice it up a little bit. And it's everybody was caught flat-footed when paramount. Cbs paramount came down and essentially changed the rules. Minot and discovery. They don't want any other star Trek's floating around because people are paying money to see their shows now so it's That's the latest trend. Is Aol the major studios are launching their own channels so as fan your dollar gets really stretched and you really have to pick and choose so I it's it's GonNa be weird it's GonNa be like what channel do you know? What's your by Yeah but that's definitely where we're headed and It looks that way so star Trek Voyager How do you look back on playing each ebb? It was that whole storyline. I thought was really interesting to kind of bring all of you together. And it was kind of like a misfits and really didn't have any place to go and I totally was fascinated by that. And you know to TV show and there's a lot of speaking parts and it's it's hard to cover everything and got there was I think more to tell there but you know that's that's the way it went. I think they had A. They did a phenomenal job with the Egypt character They find this kid out in deep space who has a virus in his. Bloodstream is bred to kill Bork. They debord if I am. He basically has to find his personality again. Which is a story. They've told over and over again. They did it with Hugh they did. It with seventy nine and then and then they did. It was seven of nine and me each and but it's a great story and then over the last two seasons. They found what I thought. Were eleven really strong episodes for this kid and what he was going through. And and the things that he was facing I really loved the episode with his where they need his parents. And they find out what happened to him and how he was originally assimilated There was an episode called imperfection that I cried when I read. I called my mother and my mom bomb. I'm going to get to be a part of something that affects people and I was like you know losing it Excited visiting my. I was twenty one years old at the time so just to get to work on something that was going to touch people's hearts and in that one each of sacrifices critical nodes to save his friend and it was sort of a a metaphor to like. You know organ transplant. Or to give for for your for your your family or your friends and that. I've you know I've gotten letters over the last twenty years and had people think me of that we're dealing actual You know kidney operations or transplants to heart or something like that thinking back on it It was awesome. Yeah wished in the final episode. I would have had more than one scene and we would've gotten to see. I assume that he gets back to Earth because he's on the ship he beats to Vakhin right game cubs. Scott even I forget claw at Tall. Yes one way you stick a little thing in the orbit absolutely and hard. They played it many times. Donate Show Yeah. So he gets home. I am then from there. You know I guess you go to the Kirsten Beyer Voyager books to to wear he and yeah you know I just. I think the writers did the wonderful job because in the beginning when he first became he all the all the board kids and him Got On the ship both free apple of episodes. It was just like each was just this whiny kid brat. That didn't want to do as his chores. Or you know his homework. And I thought that was gonna be it and I thought. Oh my God now. We're stuck with all these kids on a ship. I'm a Brat and I'm just GonNa play this kind of Bratty kids for two years and that's going to be that but they made it so more so much more than that and as soon as that episode with my parents came along I I knew at that point that Oh they're going to make this character a real part of the show and I think it was sort of like a test episode for me after and the character as likable to the audience. It all worked out and sure there were like you said it'd be great if there was more detail and more seasons. I really line of having somebody with a virus in in them. That's bred to kill the board as he grew older would be a really neat thing to explore but The show we couldn't do it so have you. Have you seen discovery at all? I haven't and I actually. I'm so excited about Picard for that. I'm going Yes oh by. Cbs Access and watch it real quick But I'm excited to see I've I've been excited if the last couple of years but I didn't want higher it it and Ryan Right. Yeah I'm going to actually bins. Watched the whole thing might before card comes out. I was at San Diego Comic Con and they had a an exhibit Picard. The first duty and really it was really kind of like pay cards life and they had so many Easter eggs and nuggets from Picard 's career on Star Trek from uniforms down to the flu that he played in the inner light. I mean it was really really. Well done how they put it all together. You know and to see all the they had models of every ship he commanded. You know right up to the last in the enterprise e so it was it stargazer all the way to the enterprise. That was really neat. So I the lines were like I got to see it on. Press Day but I would walk by deceive. I can go in there again and the lines were always long so It was a popular popular event. I am curious to see how they do it. Very secretive storyline so far You know seven of nine is going to be on their Jerry's coming back and Brent spiner coming back so far so depending on how many years is room for more of you to come back. I was going to say that. I think it'd be neat for each to kind of make an to at least make an if not more on the short tracks which are the shorter star. Trek Things they do usually ties into. They did for discovery and they tie into the series discovering and you could do the same for Picard so that'd be something to To aspire to. I think there's a few people over there that are good friends of mine. Roddenbury I love and respect and I made a short film with him called instant. That is very beautiful. If you haven't seen it yet you should check it out on the roddenberry website. It's on Youtube called instant with him and trevor. Ross who's also showrunner over there And Garrison buyer who wrote all the. Voyager novels was a fan of Egypt character. So I think there's definitely a possibility that he'll make an appearance and if indeed from the trailer it looks like they're fighting the board again and seven of nine is there. I could not imagine that Egypt would not be by her side at some point to fight that battle If that indeed is the story line just from watching the trailer. My theory is that the board have achieved perfection and that girl that runs into. Picard is perfection. She's completely looking like a human. She's she can do anything you know that the board of looking for except when she achieved perfection she broke away from the hive. Mind because to me to be perfect is to not be controlled by one mind to be an individual so she said. I think she's from the and this is you know this is just conjecture. I I know nothing about the story. But that's my theory and she so she's she's running card to be like look. This is what's happening they're coming. They're coming for me because they they want her. They want perfection but but they want it to be controllable and still be a part of you. Know the the highest that's interesting that's an interesting theory and You know certainly that I'm I'm GonNa look look at the trailer again and scrutinize a little. More I actually I actually Auto Polo that technically star trek shirt but it actually just has the Picard family crest they sold their Picard Chateau Picard wine classes and I brought some for my for my wife and then she got a real kick out of it drinking wine from their Chateau Picard. Yeah it was really a new exhibit. I'm looking forward to it. I think it's a coup to get Patrick to come back. There's definitely more of a story to tell about Picard and kind of setting it in Picard present and not trying to go backwards. I think makes a lot of sense and I know Jonathan frakes is going to be behind the camera and possibly in front of the camera to reprising Reicher so Yeah it looks like we'll see this coming back and Jonathan del Arco and I think you know even twenty years ago when I was doing. Voyager there was all this conjecture along the set that what was going on for the next show was gonNA be a show called academy and yes that it was going to be a show where there were malt. Where they they? They brought multiple characters from all the shows In Academy World and. I thought it was a great idea. And then they went with enterprise was also a good idea and a great show but I think the fans have been thirsting for a show that can bring some of these characters together from all the shows And See some of their old favorites in a new a story line and you know forty years later for some of these. Some of these guys With the new. It looks like it's so well produced. I don't know how much money they're spending on that trailer. Looks like a real upgrade from like from nineties Star Trek. I mean it looks. It looks watching the first two seasons of discovery and actually at New York Comic Con Robert Orsi at Robert Ory. Excuse me but You know they were telling us that That they had switched to a I think a different land or different way of shooting to make it more cinematic and the reasoning was people are shelling out money and they wanted to give motion picture quality and it certainly look that way and there are some fascinating You know surprises in discovery especially in season. Two that to me You know as an older fan who's been around a while from the early the earliest star Trek and continued all the way up to now it was nice to see that and I think the show runners particular Robert Kertzman. Who was the gentleman who is now really running all of the Star Trek shows and You know and the effects are just first rate. And when you see the enterprise and what they've done with the enterprise it's fairly impressive so there is room especially with the card to To do that and I'm with you. I think I would love to see different characters. Come in and what happened to this person. And what's going on here and you know it's For CERTAIN CHARACTERS. That always have to look young. Now there's a way to do that so yeah very yeah There's no problem with making people look young if if they needed to Yeah I was blown away. I was just blown away by the trailer general and I think probably every actor from Star Trek after watching the trailer is probably sitting there wondering they're going to get the phone call to become show up. We're all thirsting for it. The fans really cool and started this. Bring back you chip campaign on twitter and facebook and that's really touched my heart because I didn't know there was. You know a passion out there for the character like twenty years later. That that that I've seen from the FAN base I've just been hit with you know On my social media with question after question about whether outlet show up and why should and Blah Blah Blah and so every day? It's been like just really. That's the. That's the cool thing about star Trek. In general the the fans are so loyal at so kind and usually such good people Show is got a moral and the show is about a better tomorrow and I don't know I've been thrilled. The last couple weeks just sort of reliving the past through this new show and it'd be great. I just you know I'd be honored to show show up for whoever gets to out super happy for them of Super Happy for Jerry and Jonathan and Marina. Who are good friends of mine? So Really. And the plus the show looks like a million bucks and stop trillion in a big way. And just think about it you know a few years ago. We didn't know whether we were GONNA she star. Trek Trek has always had these periods. Where you know like in the original series was cancelled. And it's like well. I guess you know I guess we're dead and then they then syndication happen and they started showing it six days a week usually right after dinner or during dinner and all these people discovered it and then After the last are trek film with the next generation. It's like well it looks like you're done and then you know here we are so yeah and then there was one of legal problems and finally Cbs I mean they weren't gonNA sell their property. They were going to hang onto it and they did the right thing. And now they've gotten Show runners and people involved You know You mentioned radnor Mr Roddenberry and Trevor Roth and also Nicholas Meyer people like that. That are kind of at least on. An advisory board purpose in Kuwait was that they hired curse buyer. Who wrote all those novels just inside of the of paramount for pocket books? They've done an incredible job On both discovery and looks like Picard. I mean the looks good. I can't imagine it shows but amazing. Yeah and then. They've got to outskirts. Man You mentioned but they also have like a key Akiva Goldsman and all these big time like legitimate big time a-list film producers are producing TV show So yeah they've got. They've got quite a team over there. I also think including Rod Roddenberry is was key and so for him to you know get to fill his father shoes and and making show at at Just the genealogy of of of his dad's work because I know his personal journey you know connecting to Star Trek over the last twenty years Has Been Powerful and then getting to then be involved with the show must be must be awesome. Yeah absolutely no. I'm really glad about that. At and Yeah it's They look like winners. And I'm looking forward to the next season of discovery coming up in twenty twenty and picard I think is in the fall so my wife and I are subscribers and We love this short tracks to and there's actually read that That spock is going to be in one of the short trek so and also Captain Pike looking forward to that and I'll tell you anson mouth and easing pack. A really stepped in to iconic roles. And they really have made their own. They really have package really nailed. It spotted in my opinion. He's is hard as derived place and he has the talent to pull it off and he's He's giving his version not trying to do an impression which I think would be a mistake. So it's it's a good team there and for Star Trek fans it's a good time to To to follow it and I can I just can't see not subscribing to the paramount Annette channel or CBS access. Because of because of the work. They're doing it now. It's there they. They know that people are paying and they wanna give us an an alias product and so far. They're doing that so yeah you can only wear a behind it so I'm definitely handwriting Actually talking with my roommate the other day and I was like. That's it we're in Yeah we know with the possibility of coming back. I ordered all Kirsten buyers books so I could read them and see what she did with Egypt character. And then I'm like and we're binge-watching discovery and I'm going to get so back into this world. Yeah Yeah and the films you know I. I wasn't really a television Star Trek Fan. I was more of film that I love the original cast. I love when they brought back here. Cast new actors. I thought that was a really brilliant and difficult thing to do like. How were they apple? That often and that that they've found actors that were so good at playing. Those are original guys. I thought I thought they yeah job that I know a lot of fans were angry that it wasn't the same cerebral track and more than actions style film that that's just that came with the times and what theatergoers are expecting. When they go into a movie I still really thoroughly enjoyed those films as well. They're definitely not the same thing but they were great films and I enjoy them so star trek still allowed to go in whatever direction that wants to go as long as as long as it's quality television and films. I'm on board. I hear you. I agree I'm a big fan of the original series in particular. The first season was I thought. Amazing and the films. I really think the whole story line two three four and six I thought was Was really well done. And you know Nick. Meyer has something to do with that and And also Leonard. Nimoy studying behind. The camera had a lot to do with that. So especially two three and four as a trilogy. I thought really worked really well. You know by blowing up the enterprise it forced you to concentrate on really what made a star Trek Star. Trek was that diverse wonderful crew. I used to call them that -nificant seven and rightly so so Yeah it was Yeah that's a special group of people no doubt that was the one other thing that was cool about star trek was. I've been a guest star on a lot of different shows. I've been an actor for twenty years and a lot of times he'll go on a show as a guest star. Neil only be there for a week or two and the the main cast will treat you like an outcast like you're not even there And TV actors. Tv Star actors have a higher chance of being just kind of Not a very good person. Then this is what I've noticed op the more famous people that I've worked with in film and Television World the more likely that they're cool people that their enlightened kind giving I I worked with WPRO and eastward and they were like the coolest kind welcoming people I've ever met Star Trek and so all these different shows that I've that I've been involved with. I had been treated really bad by the stars and when I got on Star Trek. I didn't know that I was going to be there for two years so when I got there I was like. Oh my God I knew who all these people were and I was scared that they were GonNa you know. Treat me like a just a guest of week and not even talk to me they were so welcoming and so kind and I think they go out of their way to make sure that they cast good people as well as good actors and that was a really neat thing to immediately feel like I was a part of the family over there. That's nice to hear that now. They're they're definitely they're they're star. Trek has always cast. Well they always cash could people so I have nothing but good things to say about the people I've talked to throughout the years and It's it's been a it's been a real pleasure of mine and and I certainly add to the list. Thank you thank you. We finally got interested. We did we did it. We did it minute. Thanks for being on the podcast and I certainly wish you the the bashed with your own projects and you never know you might see you someday tracking the stars as well cross our fingers. I would love to and I also want to tell people to check out the hell on the border. It's the last film that I was an associate producer on at stars. Knee Ron Perlman at Davis kiosque and Frank Grillo. And it's about Oh yeah Bass Reeves was the first African American Us Marshal. Wow only three years after the civil war so he could you imagine. Wow Oh wow african-amer so officer three years after the civil war so amazing story about an amazing person and that'll be coming out early next year as well so check out hell on the bag nice. Well I certainly love Veron and Franken admired their work Speak their work. Speaks for itself. So I know it's going to be good. They're in it because they don't they don't do just anything so amazing really fun to work with. Yeah yeah he's A. He's a terrific guy right. Well thank you and thank you. All for listening to SCI FI talk and until next time. This is Tony. Tomato take care. I'm Lavar Burton and you're listening to sci-fi dogs.