20 Episode results for "Deborah Davis"

33 - Tony McNamara (The Great): A Stuck at Home Special

Hollywood Unscripted

29:18 min | 1 year ago

33 - Tony McNamara (The Great): A Stuck at Home Special

"From media. Welcome to another stuck at home special of Hollywood, and scripted I'm Jenny Curtis and today our guest is an Oscar nominated BAFTA winning, and now emmy nominated screenwriter playwright and Creator Tony McNamara. It is so great to have you welcome Janie position. So you're currently in Australia and it is first thing in the morning for you isn't it? Sing. Yeah. The public- sloughed Sta. The specials are called stuck at home because obviously were stuck in quarantine. We're stuck at home, and so we kind of start out with a check in of how quarantine been Frio. Lucky really. Making the show Italy in London, it'll happen. Then we Kinda Kinda astrologer and we've wisdom strike, which hasn't had a one hundred twenty days that allow headed currency twice the site in Australia you have to quarantine each stag. I'M GONNA. See for my kids lacking because I'm around booze. But it I mean puts good his nutcases the. Restrictions. Pretty much the perfect place to quarantine. Family reasons but we thought some blocking her in bars slim. Yeah. So I want to jump back to the beginning of your storytelling. Am I correct in that? You didn't actually start writing until you're in your twenties because he worked in finance worked is a strong term. Through I didn't Stop Lois Twenty, two, twenty, three or something. Yeah. In financing London for IMAS incredibly bad at. Sink. My career it'll but yeah, I. Did that for a few years they travelled around leaders your do nothing for you to right of passage inside the. In that time I was always liked tooks with might be announced a kidney united. Place in London. All maybe I could do that was excellent. Foolishly got there. Did you then just right or did you take play reading classes while I didn't really WANNA player I kind of wanted to be a novelist and then I went did this one year course at school in strata in kind of head poetry playwright and I didn't think I could do poetry. So I was like begged them play riding it as soon as that started writing scenes, delayed solo in all these fields like me you know. Actually files. Not, player can't spell kind grandma would have. Added Grandma. Grandma I think clarity as soon as I start doing that that's what I wanted to do from the decelerating set running plies NAS drifting outta financing, waiting tables, and becoming a chef, all the things collect. Will Writing Place. Yeah. Did your I play get picked up by the Sydney Theater Company Yeah Yeah Indeed I was lucky in the head playwright and I think they still have playwrights conference which is mostly young playwrights everyone guys. Camber. Railway drinking heavily, really good paypal common direct your work shaw of the applying and I was lucky his I got Michael Gal who's out right playwrights in he took me under his wing and was really because even though he directed the workshop, he's a firearm. So he was really instrumental in getting to seek data company getting it on. So I was lucky this when my clients twenty five, what was it about bows about a key have these horrible He peabody Beeman parents that comes out of the mentioned institution. He's taking the behind that gone holiday unless he just starts around the house and inspiring actual resumes it's like a generation gap can accommodate. Now did that also get you went to film? School? Basically yeah. The sites yet because I haven't really written any screenplay or anything to getting film school I think I promise High Salih made some like terrible screaming at short film put with apply but the plan was kind of coming and then what did you study at film school specifically I studied screenwriting. Yeah. Strengthens goes like very small and at the time he studied everything which was what was good about his valley. Thank. His inaugural year is like two screenwriters directors to pace to eight. It's his to inciting you rotate through disciplines so you too much greater. You guys that like. Films, documentaries and cameras Like that that you in all departments really learn only aspects of which is about it. So I love that you went to school in your mid twenties because so much at least in America were told if we don't know what we're doing at eighteen were probably not gonNA make it. Still have smell. So you had to be twenty two young got and I think it's because they won't pay really about why film school was like that I think it was a good that's kind of the same as having to learn all of the dynamics of filmmaking 'cause you need life experience you need to know what everybody else's job onset is these are it was really lucky right to getting there because they were really good sages lots of people assume are win with an out of school though you went back to writing plays for the Sydney Theatre Company or was that all throughout the truisms school. I think during film school maybe the light went on when I was in second year and then I wrote a novel by which they put on the next year, which did really well, and then night keep it up the next year to their mind sight season in took me on his riding resident site the playwright thing was happening in tandem with. Sorry go out Selena's like really WanNa keep waiting tables and then they also be residencies playwrights tweet get paid in my guy on. So I was like I'll just do that sounds like a good choice. Have apply on euro two years they ask for a long and one of those plays was a play called the great about Katharine Lynn Grades, Anyone's yeah and that's what sparked this Hulu TV show that you now have called the great you wrote for an actress named Robyn Nevin Roman was like hit the company she's great actors and she was like okay programming you place so you should write me one and then I was looking around China think what I Did I stumbled upon I think it's like free minutes something. That Grado rate something didn't show that. It was just I was just. Dominant replies not on trying to that initiating during the play. something. But she didn't get her and she that the company Kite landed and Andrew Hudson to tonight night. Was it hard writing for someone who then you had to have another actress play the role not really even find. The active. He's GonNa apply some reasonable cop feed them when I ride like I have some voice in my head. That he's the character. Seek the actors Lois. Sinai I. Mean I've seen the point. I really wanted to do it by united on the place ruin. Yeah. And then how long after that? Did you turn it into a screenplay? Jill Julian out strong greatest stranger to soar in wanted it and I think I read the screenplay stopped. Being mostly theater in dabbling a little bit right this. Time, but it was to use off. Before. Jumping into the favorite Deborah Davis had done pass of a dramatic version of the favorite and your ghost was looking to change the tone and that's why he found you basically I mean he liked this story, it was very strike rendering. I guess just really his thing he was just looking on just rating lots of screenplay is in trying to find and riding he sought like get what he wanted to do at a voice that he kind of got. Now when you started doing passes on it, did you continue to work with? Deborah or was her pass number one and then you took it from there yet never really met Deborah to light outweighed off the films night. We sort of rain need the whole thing got rid of it. He Street in China what we wanted to screw history. Yeah. You WANT WANNA history. Book yeah and spent a long. Time. And while you were working on it, you started the pilot to the great. Is that correct? Around time we were shooting sight read I was thinking about CD wanted to do and I've been running pilots and stuff but I know marrying the gallon, his speaking with me on grade she was the original the film. So she always kept me John Unit. Alleyway Alleyway on his authentic until story properly in time so. We love to me it should be so as always shoes right I think I heard you say in another interview that you hadn't really seen how the show would click as a whole until you saw Nicholas Holt acting in the favorite not. Clean she's aware that costing I mean I just always think if he costlo, we thought of that in the film version, we bain casting and trying to enroll. We'd sounds Great Catherine swimmer attaching one of the film version. Found I. Notice that gone to make is always always like that has to work and he sought to be coming not malicious crazy in and I saw naked week three weeks for vessel diverted. Off The company dice necas live will. He's He really gets one immaterial he suffered after knowing that you wanted him what was the process like ego up and tap him on the shoulder after rehearsal and say have another project for you or? Send them. Screenplay. Guys each. Locked it and then. I don't. Think I WANNA do it as eight, and then that really excited about that 'cause kneecap done. See Dana longtime ally nearly. Southern would simply just send it to buy for them in a chat with H in that was really into it straight away nine. So L. Fanning Played Catherine and she's also an EP on the show as well. What was her role in the development of the story and the character? How did she partake in that? took it out with me when I pitched like potted out. She came around and talk about why she loved it. Why it was a good story for young women she had including costume juice average. I think the good thing about Alex She's going right and. They really know what show. That's half the battle when you're trying to make something a little different China. The show is the end what I wanted to look like it's really specific continual that said, she was always like on stage. That's like an issue have these ideas like the dress. Thank you. Own. A moment of your time. A new podcast from Kirk commedia. Currently, twenty one years old and today like magic distended from her fingertips down to the to take care of yourself because the world needs you and your. Do that asked about me was ready to spit on my fingers were facing feel like your purpose in your worth is really being stopped me from. Piano. She buys walkie-talkies wonders to whom she should give the second stalls humans we never did. We never will just find woody of rock climbing is that you can only focus on what's right now. And so are American. Life begins. We may need to stay apart, but let's creating together available on all podcast platforms. Submit your piece Kirk Oh dot com slash a moment of your time. The rest of the cast is fantastic. You probably had to search far and wide find these people. What was the casting process like an easy you know why? Because it was time they knew they had to be dramatic cactus been the saints had to be calling benign also had had dramatic chops, I guess some really experienced data actes isolated slightly luke's apparently download sita. They were all very good comic actors who really content on drama when you need it, they just played it to refill the time. Controversies in Norway the dramatic. And I never the explaining that. tediously get he didn't bring them back like hundreds of times to make sure they could Neyla not be my that one, eighty, two cold bat by state announed closely with them. Longtime ally. So, once they were cast on set, was your process in prepping them for the shoot were rehearsals onset. Did you rehearse before shoot days? We do a read through sub sites. Like. Chasse director Sane rated seen the gas between may not shooting united. Go find the director in that Jabber Week throughout saying. They're working along. So then I get him since on us. into. Eastern maybe you're. For. Your writer's room, you've talked about how new view this show as a contemporary story how did you relate that to your writers and get everyone on the same page to tell this story into it? We had shot the pilot. So that had the pilots watch we pilot man, we got grain relief units here. I had to delete a like a pilot in a second. So basically Don KNAPP and then I already apply buried visions screenplay and I saw the ranch trying to think of different aspects that try to breed so summarise new wine our coming in Because they had a real angle on contemporary politics in a real deep knowledge. It was young voices they may to twenty one year old woman who's driving the head to be voices. That was strongly that voice. They're all writers who bringing a structural thing experience today out on a show that is totally trying to ride a bit of a line. So she said wasn't many four or five people I'm always like funny story through will always now give me the version of that story. Is it true that you had a whiteboard of Trivia, about that time period would you guys just kinda throw a dart in pick one or how would you go? Amelia does a lot of the research, the other artists to a Nazi. Just like the era was dumb shit in stuff about the way people solo details like Aladdin's contraception. Bizarre. Is. A very. Like a message slavish history. Clearly, we do have at least a. Little. Title of the show that we kind of story me kind of. The. Yeah. Was the pregnancy test made up or was that thing? They did pregnancy? This is true. Faculty ninety. Slate. Island with it was like Columbia indeed the actual test. To the affected for pretty pregnancy. That's why. He streets we'd giving I. Have to say there's so much absurd. Delightful. In this show when you're thinking because you read a lot of comedy, do you think in terms of what will be funny or how do you find the humor in what you're doing? Characters Bill. So I'm just like right Turi George. Consciously giants but there's always like we've got a story albeit ways, the Komi Gate Jeanette story like how we telling that story so that it's out Chard in a way that's probably the my slightly intense it comic drive away with telling the story I didn't really eat each league guy object sunny on a united script by ninety percent of it. So Isis you true my characters in my act, it's because of. I go I didn't want them reaching comedy. Account reach comedy scripts and they took. I counted I used to stay in maybe it was snapped wings representing. Real good fine. But make it real fuss. So we sort of trying to do that. It's real to our sometimes. It's still very different. Late is. On the flipside it's such a violent story, but it's also so casual in the violence that it doesn't feel overwhelming yet. I. Think showing riders. What she wanted shower. I did have a bunch of things that the world was in. The once was casualty violent and I know L. said she was nervous before doing this because she doesn't do a whole lot of comedy issuance quite nervous. She didn't let it onto the stories now to lead drama in execution. Wise accommodate. It had the word drama and I knew she could make it one because the drama amazing way I'd seen her ginger royals and she had this John Finest that I thought would come out if she was given the Right Material Dowse hike a soda fearlessness that she hadn't expected like watching Nikiel down She really began to revel in that and she really found to place to the comedy I really did more and more I? Think she's really really science s the Shogun's online in comedy is different from everyone else. Yeah, that's why it's special because she's supposed to be different from everybody else that she did amazingly while she's really Brian Actor, she just wants to be bad or she's just awesome provisional in talking about bravery as an actor at least the sex in the show is rampant, which it could be really intimidating thing to look at it as an actor but it's interesting. 'cause you never put sex for sex sake in the show everything has a purpose and it's telling a story and I guess they just want to hear more about your process with that. If that's your question requested I, mean I you obviously regionally, we'll be offended sex. Iran's locked in a giant problem building on grow. I'm just conscious of like all six, the storytelling and being character-driven dynamic driven like the dynamic between Katherine that sex becomes getting invited. In fact, I had very little physical connection Georgina in Peters thing, and then definitely I had two different thing united. So like sex should be started telling, it's not just generic CD says. that. was really kind of that and then the actors with. That idea. They still liked the idea that they went to Spain told have said. was very specific what they had to do even. Saints like charity he plays to Jane would remain. We talk about these particular saying saying, this is what's happened the story we've paid up to different and should she be like tech different position Zozo. Barry like how the characters were in a dynamic at that particular point and also like probably assessing about time I was very much like everything's gotTa. The way everything happened. So I cannot be dropped the time on the sick psychologist going to generic time. Yeah. I didn't use the deal but. I think everybody asks about it because it's done so well, sorry Hollywood but I'm exhausted by sex scenes I think. They can be incredibly obnoxious, and in this you'd stripped away the shame of it. It was all just fun and character building I watched this show with my parents. So I'm sitting between my mom and my dad watching sex all over a castle or whatever that is, and it's just fun. So I think that's why people bring it up so much. Were We. Really. It. was easiest sex thing I didn't say half the act is very much coming from character that I went to told now look hot look like you're into like Poland directing. It was very much like this is just another element in story that you got since speaking of your characters what is your favorite aspect of the characters that you right in this show? I mean. Very human guess is my favorite estee all than one thing. In the show I think he's a bad curse. We just probably just how I common themes as the right I think people behave badly and I think characters show a driven by things that it fucked up but I I never ride as he summons. Terrible. and. So I think that helps the actors because it's easy for them to find that humanity characters and it gives me more latitude as reina his is more range. Appreciated it's easy to make him the bag guy he sort of these, and so not is lot elephants to human off. So I like. It just looks like a really fun set to be on, but I did have a question. The constant smashing of glasses was that hell for your production designer. Sorry. FREJUS Fransiscan the glasses I mean I remember the Pie. We ran out the way. Off trying to buy real ones so No I think had a lot bigger problems in the glosses alike what? She built that Palestinian studio in London online. Now it's people. We need that. Now doing this, she's an amazing production on she just loves it. He's a big job of that kind of thing on the great. What was the feeling of the first day on set compared to the feeling of the last day on set While the Sittwe finished on the last day. Of the series shooting the policy I guess because that was the election really comment associate as I. said, the series is chaotic because we were rushing to get in and the sits being builds around as we started shooting. Like crazy Kyle's are made at the time of watching nick out together. I knew that you. By I wasn't sure how that go with cereal together and how They just click denies like all after the first I had seen the actors would I was like we'll aero angsting select take some pressure off. I'm like by the end of the Diet does like Dia Work Great and they just don't who really really quickly like they just felt like the world is a detect long to bathing shirts the dossier awhile like everyone to find a way to sharp I, think with these guys they really didn't take long in that site is in a Lotta ways because we were struggling with set building. Things and kind of narrow as Nagai as they do all the time they just might block release is. In the last day, what was the last scene you shot? The LOSS CB shot was pre shows like some casino. It didn't end up in the shark. Because, it was the same rebounded down rory we were like trying to do it in our fly in Italy ever really just wanted to finish the disguise and honor I've seen the Beata. Entirely. Because only act is only really for outline Eva which is in the palace which who plotted sign and all the actors in around Gadhafi, the boxes and watch the financing. And then we went to disguise four hundred people crammed into a rain consume sue hundred forgetting the fact. Nineteen in northern England. When did you wrap shooting? Retains. Wow. Shutdown in Italy the day often left's not. His particularly nominee colonel size we would like I think this. Sure refined. I'm glad you guys are all. Okay. So you had to turn the show around really fast then yeah, it was really Creek Tara. We ended hosts the last lives in about sitting wakes. Recently, you were picked up for your second season congratulations. How did you find out? Did they call you? Do they email you what was that moment? Yeah. They call you time differences. We'd start I usually often this. Coal us code like camera stood in each that thing you really waiting to call into. Getting dates when you have to find the. Ryan shooting wine. Ron Watts guide did they give you dates the to do it by? Nights how do you do that during coronavirus times? Optimistically Win We. Might Deitz covid wise. Psyche, wants I, Don I Gather starring stoops's awesome. We just prepare as. Are you gonna be able to do an in person room with riders? Not at the moment we've done three weeks naughty person I not a fan. Of. addle. Twain we couple of riots CD by. I might do a couple of weeks we. Zooming American riders yet this eventually go it is not to draw weird parallel but feel screens take our creativity away but you always write your first drafts of your script by hand. Is that true? Let's Go. You must get a lot of hand cramps. Really. Just used to it STU. Staring Plane Screen Now. Whereas I never. Driving. Is it the overwhelming ness of this green or is it like for me I? Feel like staring at a screen zaps my energy and I don't want to make things anymore. When But. There's something romantic about paper. Yeah. I. Think he's just easy up it feels like you really make you decision. It up it's like we Ryan Yellow. PADS. It's ridiculous but. Before CBS panic. Pets. As we wrap up, I just want to ask what does it mean to you to have a life in storytelling? Me It's like empathy kind a lot for that reason I think it's more important than redistrict way storytelling. Pretty we place. So I feel like. Stories help us make sense ahead and is lots of accents on the Martin. I didn't have levy by can't write stories. It's likely keys they say hungry store they just want you to tell stories to. Salute somebody need to his stories Elvis make sense of. A feel like at the moment that's going to become more important stories exhausted Tony McNamara. Thank you so much for joining me today. I love the great i. Am so excited that you're doing season two and good luck on the emmy season and pulling for you. But thank you for joining us to. Hollywood unscripted was created by Kurt come media. This special episode of the stuck at home series was hosted and produced by me. Jenny Curtis. With guest Tony McNamara. co-produced edited by J whiting. The executive producer of Hollywood unscripted Stewart. Helper in. The Hollywood unscripted theme song is by Celeste and Eric. Lease make sure to subscribe. See don't miss any special episodes of Hollywood unscripted stuck at home stay safe and healthy and thanks for listening. Creek. Tell. Media. Media for your mind.

Hollywood Italy London Tony McNamara Lois Twenty emmy Jenny Curtis Deborah Davis saints China Australia Ryan Yellow L. Fanning Alex She sloughed Sta Janie Sydney Theatre Company Selena director Andrew Hudson
The Presidential Dinner That Scandalized America

Ridiculous History

36:07 min | 1 year ago

The Presidential Dinner That Scandalized America

"This episode of ridiculous history is brought to you by mood. Dot Com Mu Dot com is an online print and design company specializing in custom. Premium print. Products you know a special finishes like gold and silver foil letter presses and raise spot gloss the stuff that allows customers to add extra dazzle shine and texture to truly stand out while business. Cards are moves core product. They also offer other marketing materials like postcards greeting cards invitations. Stickers letterhead and notebooks to create a cohesive suite of products for Your Business Mood Dot. Com is more than just a printer. They partner with you to make your ideas a reality. But don't take our word for it for a limited time. Use Code History for fifteen percent off everything on mood dot com. That's Mu Dot Com Promo code history. Vincent Van Gogh One of the greatest painters and most tortured souls of all time was Harry. Houdini predestined to become the great escape artists based on his family's great escape. I'm Dr Gail Saltz and on my new podcast personality. I'll be joined by amazing experts to delve into the minds of famous historical figures. If you want to know what really made exceptional people tick? Then take a listen to personality. Find Personality on March ninth on the iheartradio APP on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts ridiculous histories of production of iheartradio Welcome to the show ridiculous historians. Thank you as always for tuning in. If you are listening to this the day it comes out then you like us have hopefully survived. What is called Super Tuesday? A Super Tuesday is where all the nominees for president Get together and and you know pitch their cause to each state. We don't know how it will work out but know it. It's a good way into today's episode. Hi I'm Ben. Hey Ben I'm no super is kind of interesting word turnaround. You've got like superfund sites. You ever heard of those. They're like cleanup nuclear cleanup sites. Well Yeah I always when I used to work for public radio easies to think that they were a superfund sites. You know it's like like a like a bouncy castle or something like that but it turns out it's quite a depressing heavy thing. The word super Used in politics just interesting to me but super Tuesday to me sounds like a vestige of like old you know the old days of stumping politics up on a platform is you as a is. You Ain't my constituency that kind of thing you know. Yeah Yeah it's a as as the guy who with some small measure of regret coined the term super producer. Here out shout out to our super producer. Casey pet group still in the race the race for our hearts winning by a large margin and as it turns out not a toxic. Waste cleanup site or a supercharged political Day of the year yet. The the free super I for Super Tuesday it always. It always felt me growing up like political pundits. Were trying to make it. Sound more fun. Granite is yeah. You know what I must be I. I don't know how it came about but it is a strange title. I'm going to bring back just using super to say something great. That's just super someone from the Mid West would say. But we digress. Today we are posing a question that was posed in a film that actually had similar things residences to today's episode. Guess WHO's coming to dinner starring. Sidney Poitier remember that film I do know what's the question. It was about a A dinner where a an African American gentleman comes. Oh the title was the question. Guess WHO's coming to dinner. That's right okay. I'm back in. Yes okay so it was a film where what's the plays up. African American gentlemen who comes to dinner and it's You know all kinds of hilarity awkwardness and satire ensue. Guess WHO's coming to. Dinner has a lot in common. You're right with today's story today. Story involves One of the most famous presidents in US history President Theodore Roosevelt. Now Daddy as he is known to his friends was was not a status quo type of president. He was known for shaking things up and kind of making his own way in nineteen zero. One he did something that wouldn't seem to controversial Tusk. Today's early not yet. Someone over for dinner you know and of course. He's the president at this time. He's he's pretty busy in general but because he's the president of the United States even the smallest of social decisions carry enormous weight in symbolism for the public. It's not like You or or I casually inviting a new friend or coworker to have some decimal lasagna. Or something this is always going to be interpreted as a statement is true and Deborah Davis in her fantastic book. Guest-of-honour Booker T. Washington Theodore Roosevelt and the White House. Dinner that shocked a nation Referred to this situation as such African Americans were invited to meet in offices. They of course built the White House. They worked for the various presidents but they were never ever invited to sit down at the president's table and when that happened the outrage was just unbelievable and a big reason for that she goes on to say is that in society The idea of dining together really created A sense almost a code word for social equality and folks just weren't ready to accept that fully despite obviously Slavery having been illegal for some time and African Americans for all intents and purposes being able to occupy the same social strata as white people. But it was just not something. That was Embraced even still. Yes and that's let's not bury the lead The guest in question is booker. Tally of Pharaoh. Washington American educator author a leader in his community at the time. There's a there's a double down meaning here. This is something that may have incensed. The racist members of the public in the American south traditionally this time it was understood that if you invited a male to have dinner with you and this person was not related to you already then tacitly inviting this man to woo your daughter. You're like come on in every meal. Epsom Lozad his is my daughter. Isn't she lovely? She's she's nineteen and she's getting up there and I love how all these imaginary circumstances. Everyone's always eating lasagna. It's Lozad I don't know why speedy they serve. They serve lasagna in the White House. Probably some fancy like lobster LASAGNA. Or something like that. I would think I you know what I bet. You have a lot of latitude when you're president because it's true. The menu has changed so much over the year. And now we can't forget that guy conic picture of our current president with all the McDonalds big MACs and stuff stacked up in Baroque fashion and he was very happy about that. I think he was doing the iconic double thumbs up so yes so you can see at least according to Deborah Davis. You can see that as the primary reason or one of the primary reasons people were so offended. It caused them to clutch their pearls. To imagine that a black man would be able to have that level of access to a family especially the presidential family both men both Washington and Roosevelt. Were very much aware of this and again grasp your pearls hear gasps softly. They were going to be women. Present Heavens Let's get into before we get into the outrage which is gonNA COME. It's inevitable Let's talk a little bit about why he would have wanted. Booker. T. Washington at a at a gathering. Like this where you're going to talk policy. It was because he was in a highly influential leader in the African American community. Founded the Tuskegee normal and Industrial Institute born into slavery He saved up and put himself through. School was an educator after the civil war and that's when he founded those institutes I mentioned earlier in eighteen. Eighty one in Alabama Now known as to Ski University so he was along with W E B D Boys Was One of the foremost African American leaders at the time and Roosevelt would've wanted to hear what he had to say would've have wanted to collaborate with him because Roosevelt was like you said he thought outside the box. He wasn't going to let the man tell him what's even though he technically kind of like the man right. Yeah and I. I like the point out how Washington was immensely influential feud or Roosevelt was immensely impulsive legendarily. So and here's how it all went down. So he had this pre existing appointment in. This was a business appointment. There were supposed to compare notes in Roosevelt. Was going to get some advice on Some cabinet picks but then at the very last minute is true. Roosevelt said. Let's make dinner and he was going to send out this invitation to dinner. The story is that he paused for just a second thought. Is this a bad idea because of all the stuff we've got going on here in the US and it's crazy messed up? I'm paraphrasing An instantly he felt deeply ashamed that he even bothered hesitating and so he said all right. I'M GONNA I'M GONNA send this out before I can change my mind and now Booker T. Washington gets the invitation and he has some thoughts. We I mean he had to decide whether or not to accept the invitation. I I would imagine that the Immediate impulse especially for a guy like that who'd come so far new the symbolism of it but I guess he had to decide if it would look like a trail to his community in some way or if it was worth you know making that big statement and kind of weathering the Brouhaha that would follow in the interest of kind of moving social discourse forward and obviously he chose the latter Yup He said this is going to be problematic for me but I have no right to refuse. And he felt like he had to accept it as a representative of his community. Of course they knew the s was gonna hit the F-. I'm going to say that it you can fill in whatever initial `isms you like for that. The shorts were gonNA hit the farm. Yeah Yeah The the scoop was going to hit the France. It's early in the morning today for us. I guess is. It's almost noon. Ben No right but the weather here. It's very jerry Hey guys it's bobby bones. I host the bobby bones show and pretty much always sleepy because I wake up at three o'clock in the morning a couple of hours later I get all my friends together. We get into a room and we do a radio. Show with your allies. We tell our stories. We try to find as much good in the world that we possibly can and we looked through the news of the day that you'll care about also your favorite country. Artists are always stopping by to hang out and share their lives and music too so wake up with a bunch of my friends on ninety eight point seven W M Z Q in Washington DC or wherever the rotates you on the iheartradio APP. So they knew that was going to hit. The Spain was going to hit the France a White House reporter. Put The news of this dinner on the wire service and this is mind you before they actually ever sit down to eat. There is a massive backlash. The stories that were printed about this are disgusting aged like milk as as we want to say. The men both received Separately and as a group death threats there were There was of course the cliche. Racial Element to it And it included accusations that this would make Booker T. Washington quote apetit and that it would fuel ambition in his community but then there was also criticism saying you know Teddy. Roosevelt is publicly elected official. And he has no right to push his private agenda on the public. Yeah in the notion that he was using this to quote unquote Fuel Negro ambition in quote. Again this from from Deborah Davis from her book and from the reporting of the time and that is the one of the gentler Ways you really is using outdated language. You'd never use that term in that way today but at the time that was sort of the more polite way to characterize the situation but some of the things that like you said Ben that were printed were absolute Fearmongering race mongering hateful kind of stuff and to imply that Teddy Roosevelt was somehow trying to push some secrets. Progressive Agenda was just like the height of like paranoia. What okay here's my question. What is so insidious about not wanting people to be segregated? That's that's the weird thing to me. Senators spoke out against this James Cave. Varda said some things that I'm I'm not gonNA. I'm not going to quote in full because they're they're disturbing but he said something like he's a Democrat from Mississippi says the White House is now so saturated with the odor of blank that the rats had taken refuge in the stable other senators. Like Benjamin Tillman of South Carolina threatened to kill a thousand people to quote. Put them back. In their places the Missouri Sedalia Sentinel published a poem on its front page entitled Blank in the White House. I mean this was a national story. And it's it's a chilling. Look at how normal. This sort of discourse was in the early twentieth century there were like vulgar cartoons Characterizing Mrs Roosevelt and she was very very popular first lady so all of a sudden to have her maligned saw openly Just for being associated with this. Because he can't. She was one of the guests at the dinner as well. One of the you know gas women that was going to be there right and there wasn't a one hundred percent support in the African American community for Booker T. Washington. There was a radical opponent of his a fellow named William Monroe. Trotter who said agreeing to this dinner showed booker. T. Washington as a hypocrite who support social segregation between black and whites while he himself dines at the White House so everybody from all all angles had some problems. Add some stuff to say about this and they had to go on. It was really just like a great excuse to push forth. Whatever your particular agenda was whichever side of the issue you might have found yourself. You could use it as a way to say. Booker T. you're selling outs. You know you're not practicing what you preach you know you're behaving as though you think you are better than your fellow men And the other side of it would be. You know. Theodore Roosevelt's is a Some sort of heretic and he is. You know just totally you know going to shatter the moral fiber of of the country by doing such outrageous thing. And let's just remember. This is a dinner. This is it. How Insurance Social Morays have been in? Nineteen O one for people to just lose their minds over the story. In this way absolutely created like a a a kind of hysteria. Yeah I hope it was a hope. It was so widespread at least this belief in the importance of dinner. I hope it was so widespread that it became a euphemism for hitting on someone's daughter you know and it's like well. I'M GONNA go have dinner with your dad. See it's weird. How when you put it like that but that is kind of weird so what happened exactly like I mean. Do we know how the dinner itself went? We know a little bit but this is weird because people started trying to rewrite history as it was happening. Republican pundits went into damage control. They wanted to to get in front of the story as they say in the media today one one idea was say. Okay Look we report this. Let's call it lunch because somehow lunch is less of a problem. And now we're going to say We're also going to say. Hey Booker T. Washington did not Goo- to the dining room and there weren't any women present. The guys were just sitting in the office. They're meeting went long and so they ordered a tray of sandwiches. For some reason that made people in the south feel less bloodthirsty about it which is weird because of the power of sandwiches or the great equalizer or lunch. Maybe like well. It's just lunch. Definitely that's a good point. That was sort of a A diminished version right. Like dinner is is is the height of social equality. Lunch is a little more. You can just kind of hop in hop out like it doesn't require quite as much pomp and circumstance and so for this goes on until the nineteen thirties. Someone finally asked Miss Roosevelt. There's a great. Npr story about the someone finally asked. Mrs Roosevelt Tell US straight was at lunch or dinner. She checked her calendar. And she said it was most definitely dinner and it was still even even in Booker t. Washington's Obituary in one thousand nine hundred fifteen. It was reported as lunch in his obituary. This was a really weirdly important thing. Wait a minute though administered. So which was it. We do have confirmation and really is mystery surrounding this to this day. Almost If we trust Mrs Roosevelt's calendar it was dinner. Where's the story about tray of sandwiches confront that comes from? Republicans trying to spin the story and time they wanted to preserve the political viability of the Roosevelt Administration. That's they softened it to sandwiches but it probably wasn't true. No I get it now. I it had me going because I almost got lost in the spin myself. Ben We all we all do get caught in the spin cycle every so often so this is the weirdest thing because a lot of the story is lost to history we. We actually wouldn't know about this dinner if Deborah Davis had not heard about it just in passing at John McCain's two thousand eight concession speech to the newly elected at the time President Barack Obama. I think it's wild to that. A story that generated headlines or leads Such as this one from the Memphis Scimitar that declared this act by President Roosevelt to be the most damnable outrage which has ever been perpetrated by any citizen of the United States. So all stop bit addict Arnold out out of out of the running totally it out. Yeah let's see SAS. Nation Abraham Lincoln. Forget about it outright. You know the civil war everybody in there is officially not as bad. Not a big deal but you you ask Influential Black Man to dinner and all hell breaks loose so the point being then what you were alluding to I think is that this was largely kind of lost a history i. I didn't know about it until we until we started reading up on this here. Yeah Yeah so in McCain's concession speech which Deborah Davis here's McCain says a century ago President Theodore Roosevelt's invitation of Booker T. Washington to dine at the White House was taken as an outrage. Many quarters America. Today's world away from the cruel bigotry of that time there is no evidence of this than the election of an African American to the presidency of the United States. And this hit Davis. She thought wait. What when did Booker T. Washington go to the White House? She's a cultural historian. So so that's GonNa Pique her interest and then she found that. This didn't even really short high on Google. She had she had to hit the books to figure out the story. And we WANNA thank Deborah Davis for the excellent work here because we forget sometimes how easy it is to lose these tremendous moments. You know this is the thing that bothers me whenever whenever I do a show or look into something at the White House or when this press clubs or prayer breakfast when people get together. It's hard to find the menu and I WanNa know what's on the Menu. Like what did he wasn't a tray sandwiches right. I think it's important. I want to know that too For our purposes today we will just go on continuing to believe that it was on. Thank you man. That's very that's very kind of I. That's what I that's what I choose to believe. I think it's because I finally started watching Sopranos so I tell you that no but But more power to you for years you've been telling me CARMELO'S LASAGNA is second to nine. It's got little basil leaves in between the layers. You know how Nice it's got that. I got TA regards cheese. It's so that so creamy and delicious. Yeah her LASAGNA. Is a huge hit anywhere. She brings it she always brings it to potlucks at our church and everything that people go crazy for this graceland music and true crime podcast above musicians getting away with murder and behaving very badly hosted by me. Jake Brennan is back with season five. And you're not gonNA WANNA miss new episodes on guns and Roses Jay Z. Prince Ozzy Osbourne Nipsy Hustles Selena the rolling stones and more winner of the recent two thousand nine hundred ninety best music podcast award by Iheartradio and named Apple podcast best of two thousand nineteen list for the second straight year season. Five of disgrace slammed is set to explode and here ears once more with all the crime. Grime scandal and drama. You've grown addicted to billboard magazine Variety G. Q. Forbes Ryan seacrest and rolling stone have all praised disgrace land if you love music and if you look true crime and you gotTa love this. Show listen to disgrace. Land on the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts rock and roll I have an unrelated food question. Well somewhat somewhat politically related. But it's a food question so one of the people who was running for the Democratic nomination. I think amy clue Machar from the Midwest. A drop this phrase hot dish and they didn't know what a hot dish was those literally just like a hot but it's a specific kind of thing. Have you ever heard of this? Hot Jazz. I can't tell the difference between a hot dish and a casserole like I'm sorry. I thought you Missouri for a person like that hot dish. Oh No no no. No but no okay. So you mean like if you're designating a type of potluck you're saying bring a hot dish. That means it can be anything. A casserole is specifically a mishmash kind of thing with different ingredients with a cheesy crusts will. Here is apparently the difference. And this is something I had not heard before so Fellow ridiculous historians. Let us know the scoop on this. So casseroles hot dishes are sort of the same thing but the big difference is supposedly that casseroles US tuna chicken but hot dishes US red meat and more condensed soup varieties. But those those casseroles to me. That doesn't make any sense to me. I don't understand it. Make a squash casserole. Doesn't have to have tuner chicken you can make a Broccoli casserole green bean casserole ever heard of that. Yeah Anyway. We're going to put this one too bad. I don't think it's worth our time hot dish though. No you're right you're right. Let's see let's keep going because the president did other stuff exactly. He did do other stuff. Because as we know Teddy Roosevelt was a real pioneer in many respects in terms of his hunting prowess. We did that episode. Where I think we He and his sons went on a crazy hunting expedition once he had retired from the presidency. for the Smithsonian where he ended up. You know the taxidermy and sending back all these specimens a lot of those are still there today so he was very forward thinking man. Obviously it was just an interesting kind of excuse for him to be able to kill some big wild exotic game. But you gotta give him props for like making it about science But he did a lot of other things too. He was a man of firsts He was a huge proponent of experiencing new things and pushing the envelope And so because of that We have a lot of presidential I that happened under Teddy Roosevelt Watch. He was the first president to ride in the submarine. Who is the? I have a telephone in his residence and this is interesting. He was the first presumably to have a Dojo in the White House. Is this from the mental floss? Article Been This. Is the mental floss. Article is Theodore Roosevelt in the first presidential car. Ride this crazy. Yeah the DOJ. Oh I wonder if he was any good. If you could like take a man down with some sweet karate moves I and you can read more about this at at another mental floss article on a deep dive Theodore Roosevelt Mojo in the Dojo by Jenny. Dropkin Man. I love mental floss. I do too William McKinley His predecessor was the first president to ride in a car but it was Roosevelt's who kind of codified it right and made it part of his job to make the rounds when he took a tour of Hartford Connecticut in Nineteen to. Yeah The New York Times says he was quite pleased with the quote handsome Victoria automobile because he thought it was a great way to shake a lot of hands in a short period of time and more so than like were. They do like a whistle. Stop Tour Yeah. Yeah take the train right but in private he. He complained about them. Instead motorcars or a trial I suppose. Ultimately we'll get them in their proper place in the scheme of nature when by law and custom they're uses regulated improper fashion their objectionable features will probably be eliminated but just at present. I regard them as distinct additions to the discomfort of living. He kind of had it all right. Every single point He listed there was right. It was regulated. It was more integrated into the day to day of human existence. But I don't think those what are those negative features that he's referring to kind of somehow doubt. Those went away as in the fact that they're big and bulky and can run down and kill you and smell bad Yeah I I would not be surprised if the automobile industry asked him for a little bit of endorsement. They're interesting but he had one other big. I in November of one thousand nine hundred six right he did indeed. He was the first president to leave the U. S. he hopped aboard the USS Louisiana to take a tour of the Panama Canal. A big projects. We take that for granted president's going on diplomatic trips you know it's just like par for the course but that's a big one. He was the first one to leave the country To inspect that that can now that was that he thought he had really been a huge part of making happen. And so perhaps A A good place to end our story. Today with Roosevelt and Washington's famous lost the history. Dinner is to objectively look at the Roosevelt Administration and the enormous race problem in the United States. When he was re elected He said that his plan was to improve race. Relations in one thousand nine hundred five and historians like you can look at his work and say that yes. He firmly believed that all men are created equal but as history dot com notes. His administration took kind of a passive approach to improving civil rights and his successors did much the same thing. It really wasn't until Lyndon Johnson passed the Civil Rights Act in nineteen sixty four that the effort to correct racial discrimination was encoded into law. So it's been a long road you know but dinner does a lot. It does and it continues to be a really important tool for networking and for meeting with business clients and things because it does kind of the idea of breaking bread. Together it really. Is this great equalizer where you if you're having dinner with The CEO of your company. Say when you guys are sitting across each other at the same table Ida I there is something some an effect to that. That's hard to measure. They really does make you feel like you're sort of on the same level and I think that's a powerful thing and Kudos to Teddy Roosevelt for whether completely intentionally or kind of brashly making this grand gesture. Obviously made a big splash and was very important as always. Thank you so much for tuning in. We want to hear from you. What do you think are some of the most influential dithers it history and we mean global history not just not just US history. It can be something like the Booker T. Washington Teddy Roosevelt dinner. Or it could be something you know a little more red wedding asked if you WanNa if you WANNA be dark about it but you mentioned the fact that that they found that there was an assassin taken out at assassin hired to kill Booker T. Washington because of this death threats for sure. Yeah Yeah but there are somewhere in the reporting that said they you know there was a botched attempt at an assassination or there was some evidence that there had been an assassin sent to. Tuskegee to take him out. I bet there were already also so many death threats. That guy was getting. That's what I'm saying. Can you imagine like how dare you start a school right so so let us know about your favorite historical dinners bonus points if you can give us menu to? It's it's killing me. Folks is killing me to read about these amazing moments and not know what they were eating. You know maybe that's just me. Maybe I should not criticize history for not keep better track of its menus. No personally I think it's a it's an absolute crime against humanity that we cannot know what these political luminaries were eating. Every minute of the day now we do. Because it's all preserved in the tweet record and on their instagram and on their instagram's with tasteful food. Tech's love that but that's a discussion for another day For now I think we can bid this topic and you our listeners. A Jira a huge. Thanks to Super Producer Casey peg as always Thanks to Alex Williams who compose this here song that you hear before your very ears. Thanks to Christopher Haciendas always here in spirit of course Gabe Lisera would we be without. You are wonderful and talented research associate. Thanks to Eve's Jeffcoat on our appear podcast this day in history class. Thanks also of course to Booker T. Washington and to Theodore Teddy Roosevelt. Where can I tell you about my favorite dinner in history might be asking yourself? Well do we have a deal for you. You can find us on facebook. You can find us on instagram. You can find us on twitter. Our facebook page is top notch. It's called ridiculous historians. We'd love for you to join us and our fellow listeners. There all you have to do is name Casey Knoll me or or all three of us or some combination thereof or honestly just make us laugh like I heard terrible pun recently knoll. If you like if you'd like lease into this okay. This comes from `nother show stuff. They're watching know someone said. Did you hear about this? Plan to deliver magazines by drone raising a lot of issues raising because magazines. Come out an issue. Issue as a drone fly in the magazine. It's raising the debt. I got it. That's good. I like you said it's early. Twelve twenty they were both a little under the weather and and it is a pretty dreary Pacific northwest type. Day outside is a stay warm. Stay Dry folks. And we'll see you next for more podcasts. From iheartradio visit the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows this episode of ridiculous history is brought to you by Tuman Bay. Tuman Bay is a fictional podcast on an epic scale or history and fantasy collides inspired by the Mamluk rulers of Egypt in a set in the most significant city on earth the beating heart of vast empire. The story begins with news of a rebellion in a distant province. Greg or the sultan spymaster is given the job hunting down the spies within the palace walls at the same time a young girl called. Heaven is trying to reach Tuman Bay to rejoin her family. I by sea then across the desert in the company of an escaped slave created by John. 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Operation Mockingbird

Conspiracy Theories

45:34 min | 2 years ago

Operation Mockingbird

"Jim, Scott was talking too loud. It was a spring day in March of nineteen sixty three fourteen year old Jim was sitting next to the telephone in his parent's home in Washington DC. He was speaking to a friend on the other line complaining about their mountain of homework. The boys were talking over one another neither one giving other one a moment to allow for real silence. Then Jim stopped. He thought he heard something his friend was still speaking, Jim urged him to shut up over the stagnant buzz of the line. Jim heard it again voices. Not his not his friends. Don't worry. Jim heard a grown man say over the line. It's just two kids talking about homework assignments, Jim didn't make much of the incident. But he did tell his parents though it was a weird occurrence Jim soon forgot about the whole ordeal. He had no idea that he had just caught government agents listening in on his family's phone line hoping to gain Intel relating to Jim's father journalist. Paul Scott, Jim also couldn't fathom that forty five years later long after his father had passed away those mysterious voices would be key evidence in proving the existence of one of the Central Intelligence agencies, most secretive, most illegal operations. Welcome to conspiracy furious. Apar- cast original every Wednesday. We dig into the complicated stories behind the world's most controversial events and search for the truth and Carter, ROY Brandenburg, and neither of us are conspiracy theorists. But we are open minded skeptical and curious, don't get us wrong, sometimes the official version is the truth. But sometimes it's not at par cast. We're grateful for you. Our listeners you allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on Facebook and Instagram at par cast and Twitter at par cast network. And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us is to leave a five star of you wherever you're listening. It really does help. We also now have merchandise to park, cast dot com slash merch. For more information you can listen to previous episode. Of conspiracy theories as well as all of our casts other shows on Spotify, and anywhere. You listen to podcasts. This is our first episode on operation mocking bird, an alleged program conducted by the Central Intelligence Agency, over the course of the nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties and early nineteen seventies Mockingbird was believed to be a widespread operation intended to influence public perception of the Cold War between the United States, and the Soviet Union. According to the main conspiracy theory about this subject at its height operation. Mockingbird was a huge network of domestic, and foreign journalists. There were all being influenced by the CIA. However, the CIA has long contested that this was not the case in the fallout of the Watergate scandal in the mid nineteen seventies, a number of the CIA as most secretive and controversial operations were made public in the agency took a step back from some. Of these more. Well, you can just say, illegal. You're right, the CIA abandoned a number of illegal programs after Watergate, though, Mockingbird was not among the programs known to be discontinued. It is generally believed that it was shut down. But remained the classified, we should be clear, the Central Intelligence Agency, has never confirmed that as so called up ration- Mockingbird was used to establish a network of journalists and control, the American media and by extension the views of the American public, but given that this is the CIA were talking about just because they don't confirm something exists doesn't necessarily mean there's nothing to the story in this episode. We're going to look at the early history of the CIA, and how the geo political climate of the world post World War, Two combined with the brewing conflict of the cold. War to give birth to an agency that could essentially do whatever it wanted under the purview of national security will follow some of the agencies, shadier activities through the mid twentieth, century, finally will look at how the CIA was impacted by the fall of the Nixon administration. And explore what all of that means regarding operation Mockingbird then next week will look the theories about whether or not Mockingbird really did exist in the way that many people believe. It's probably difficult to imagine a time when the Central Intelligence Agency, didn't exist, a decent chunk of the twenty four hour news cycles. Coverage deals with matters of state and foreign relations the message is repeated again and again, America is constantly at risk of attacks by its enemies. And one of the few things that allow us to prevent those attacks is our robust intelligence apparatus. Hollywood has also played no small role in cemented. The CIA spot in the permanent zeitgeist as a kind of intersection between fantasy spice stories and the real life drama of gathering and interpreting intelligence. But there was a time when the idea of the CIA itself was rather radical before nineteen forty five the United States only maintained intelligence agencies during times of active war. During World War, Two the United States military relied on the office of strategic service known as the OS S to oversee intelligence gathering, and covert operations, the OS only existed from nineteen forty to nineteen forty five but it served as the precursor for the modern day CIA in a number of ways. Oh, S operatives oversaw, the training, and arming of foreign soldiers that fought the axis powers in multiple theaters of war. They recruited spies from within an EMMY governments, most notably. Germany and set them up in positions where they would be able to funnel intelligence back to the allies. Most notably for this episode subject. Oasis operatives maintained close relationships with American journalists who were embedded overseas to cover the war effort in some cases, these journalists even help the OS s by writing and publishing. Stories through foreign newspapers with the intention of misleading enemy organizations. This kind of arrangement is very similar to what the CIA would later be accused of doing through operation Mockingbird. A World War, Two ended in September of nineteen Forty-five with that the OS SS mandate was fulfilled. And according to common practice, it should have been disbanded, as American soldiers were either called back home or reassigned to help with the reconstruction of war torn Europe, but president Harry Truman, and United States joint chiefs of staff, knew that they were at a vital defining moment in world history. World War Two more than any war. The world had seen before relied heavily on intelligence subterfuge, in the fast, paced development of military technology, most notably the atomic bomb to meet the growing intelligence needs of the allied powers during the war, the OS at its height had thirteen thousand operatives and personnel. That's a lot of manpower and once the war was over. Truman and his advisors recognized that it would be a ways to completely do away with such an effective intelligence and espionage outfit. The world was entering an uncertain chapter in history, the use of the atomic bombs in Japan, opened the door for the rapid development, and mobilization of weapons of mass destruction. The postwar world was being carved up and divided between communism and capitalism with an alarmingly, large chunk of it claimed by Soviet Russia, which was already positioning itself to become America's next main foe. It was this that led Truman to do what he did leaders in the FBI, and the US State Department objected to the creation of a new intelligence agency, which they feared might impede on their own jurisdictions. But Truman was adamant about creating a permanent organization that could continue to utilize the intelligence gathering strength of the OS s. It took a few iterating before the US executive branch landed on the agency that access America's main intelligence apparatus, today Truman, I established these secret services, unit, or s s in nineteen forty five which had the mandate of preserving the infrastructure of the s less than six months later in January of nineteen forty six the S U was absorbed into the newly established national intelligence of thority. The NRA and its various intelligence branches. Only lasted for twenty months before they were dissolved by the national security act of nineteen forty seven that same act established the national Security Council, and more importantly, the Central Intelligence Agency, America's first peacetime intelligence service. There are two vital defining things that should be noted about how the CIA was established the first was its mandate. The agency wasn't tasked with enforcing the law as the Federal Bureau of investigation was, in fact, it's charter specifically prohibited the agency from even operating on American soil. It was also a notably separate organization from the United States military this essentially means that the CIA and its operatives were beholden to a much looser set of rules than either of these established organizations. Secondly, the idea of the CIA as a peacetime agency is kind of laughable think of the series of events that led to its creation, the CIA was put bluntly established so that the American government could benefit from the same level of widespread surveillance and intelligence collection that they had previously only been able to get away with during war. Sure the spite being labeled as a peacetime agency. The CIA was essentially created so that one arm of the American intelligence community would always act as if we were at war, and in doing, so they would imply drastic measures allowed by near unlimited resources, limited oversight and abroad blanket mandate to act in the interest of American security as America moved on from World War, Two and into the chaotic early decades of the Cold War. They would use this freedom, as they saw fit even against American citizens. Next will discuss how the CIA utilized the growing antiwar movement as an anti-communist tool and the expose that nearly destroyed them. Codenames deception gadgets. It might seem like something out of the movies. But these are just some of the essential components of being a spy most buys don't stand out like JAMES BOND and Ethan hunt. Their ordinary forgetful, people, which makes them all the more dangerous. So what does it really take to be a spy every week minute show? Espionage, explores this high stakes world and analyzes the missions behind the world's most incredible spies, and how these covert operations succeeded or failed find out the real world spy tactics required to impersonate exploit, and infiltrate, the most confidential places in the world, experienced the danger of store, expi- mission, and the unexpected challenges of maintaining covert and completely illegal lifestyle. Search for an subscribed to espionage, wherever you listen to podcasts again. Search espionage or. Visit parkas dot com slash espionage till this and now the deadliest weapon is information. Now back to the story. With its establishment in nineteen forty seven the Central Intelligence Agency, set about defining its own place, within the broader network of American government organizations, the agency hit some bumps in its mission to serve as an effective, intelligence service, at least in the first few years of its operation, as we've said, the CIA had a looser mandate and mission than some of the older government organizations in the years building up to the breakout of the Korean war. The foundling agencies struggled to define exactly what it was meant to do president Truman who had signed the agency into existence sought, as an organizational tool something to manage and disseminate, the until that was presented to the Oval Office on a daily basis. The US department of defense, one of the CIA to provide support to the already established branches of military intelligence. It was. Unclear in those early years would exactly the CIA would focus on specifically in the broad world of intelligence, given that key argument in favor of establishing the agency had been prevention of another unexpected attack like the one on Pearl Harbor in nineteen forty one many assume, the CIA would act in line with America's military goals, and the State Department which actually provided most of the intelligence that the agency used in its early years, one of the CIA to support global covert operations designs or promote favourable views on the United States, ultimately, the CIA would come to exist in the center of the VIN diagram created by these three goals, but it would struggle early on to prove itself as an effective in essential intelligence gathering apparatus on the agency. Didn't keep a good track record. Incidentally, it failed to predict the outbreak of the Korean war. When North Korea invaded South Korea in nineteen fifty and failed again to predict China's entering the war that same year. The CIA did not pick up on the warnings that immediately preceded the Soviet takeover of Romania or Czechoslovakia and also failed to predict or prevent the overnight construction of the Berlin Wall in nineteen sixty one, the Soviet Union and their allies were gaining steam and the CIA was forced to define itself, and the scope of its mandate as the United States entered into the decades long, Cold War. The global threat posed by the USSR gave the agency and opportunity to develop and implement its own operational strategy. The Central Intelligence Agency, claims in its charter that the scope of its jurisdiction is limited specifically to overseas operations there, not a law enforcement agency as the F B I is in this they. Can't operate on American soil. But as we're all aware they do that all the time. The Cold War was defined by an idea of mutually assured destruction. It was the idea that because both sides had nuclear weapons. Neither side would actually use those weapons as to do. So would ensure nuclear war and likely and Nile Asian the arms race the space race through the nineteen fifties sixties, and seventies, the two global superpowers were competing against one another in most areas of science and technology. This competition also spread to the realm of journalism, and media, the Cold War was fought in the realm of public perception, as much as it was fought using proxy wars. It was more than just a conflict between two superpower nations. It was a battle between two very distinct ways of life American propaganda in the nineteen fifties created a period of strong, anti-communist sentiment known as the red scare it warn people that Soviet spies were everywhere, and that communist Russia was hell bent on conquering, the United States and taking away. It's people's everyday freedoms on the other side of the world Soviet propaganda, emphasized. The strength of its communist government against the Solis capitalism of the United States. One interesting thing about the story is how the public became aware of the CIA's. Shady, dealings with journalists the series of exposes published from the late nineteen sixties through the late nineteen seventies actually began with an investigation into the CIA's relationship to social and civic organizations on this leads us to the national student association, the international organization of journalists, and the article that nearly crippled the Central Intelligence Agency. The international organization of journalists was founded in nineteen forty six in Copenhagen Denmark on the surface. This was a collective journalists from Soviet and eastern European nations that acted as something of congress for the journalists in that part of the world in reality, the I O J was a front funded by the Czech communist party and open to communication and direction from the KGB in Moscow. The I O J was just one of several. Similar organizations that were not so secretly funded by the Kremlin for the purpose of spreading propaganda to the rest of the world. The organization tried to maintain the illusion of being a free press for a while. But by nineteen fifty every single member of the organization was also a member of the communist party and KGB operatives held a number of high ranking positions the United States intelligence community. Knew that it needed to work to counteract the Jay's efforts with its own network of pro American propaganda. The task naturally fell to the still new CIA. They found their proxy in the national student association, the NSA was founded in nineteen forty seven the same year as the CIA in Madison, Wisconsin. It's main purpose was to represent the colleges of America at the international union of students. A global congress of students based in Prague. It was also in town. Tended to help forward the more liberal, politics of the younger generations of Americans who were becoming increasingly concerned with the right wing zealotry of the early Cold War era. When we talk about the United States, government, surveilling, actively persecuting, antiwar, or left leaning, American students, we usually focus on the presidency of Richard Nixon. But the NSA CIA scandal reveals that from the very first year of the CIs existence. The US government had concerns about liberal, politics infecting America's youth. It was the political schism that actually allow the CIA to get involved with the NSA in the first place in two thousand fifteen a great compilation of the story was published in patriotic betrayal, the inside story of the CIA secret campaign to enroll American students in the crusade against communism by Karen Padgett. We referenced pants book, as well as the review of it from the New Yorkers Lukman for large part of the section as early as nineteen forty eight just after the organization was form. The NSA was on the radar of the FBI, US State Department and of all things that Catholic church, which played a big role in anticommunist propaganda through the nineteen fifties and nineteen sixties. None of these organizations had a chance at infiltrating the pro civil rights antiwar and essay but to see was new, it didn't have the baggage of more established wing of the American government beginning in the early nineteen fifties. It's operatives were able to bazillion themselves, as more forward thinking liberal agents, whose views aligned with the student leadership of the NSA. That's ridiculous. Of course, the CIA reports directly to the president. It's aims are as much in line with the broader American military as anything else in the executive branch, but the ploy worked in nineteen forty eight no one had heard of the CIA, and even fewer people knew what it was intended to do. See. Aubert is were able to position themselves as liberal anti-communist to get in with the NSA. There are few exact names in the story of how these two organizations came together, but the general count is this as early as nineteen forty-eight, CIA operatives began underwriting, the budget for the NSA's offices, and operations with that they were able to influence the outcome of student, elections, and policies that the NSA brought to the international union of students, the US split up in nineteen forty eight after the NSA withdrew in objection to a coup that had occurred in Czechoslovakia. They formed their own international body. The international student conference, the US and I s c functioned, essentially, as proxies for the US, and the USSR respectively, the NS, a operated as a sort of window for the CIA through the organizations access CI operatives could reach students across. The country as well as anti war, and civil rights organizations. They also use NSA student says, proxy, operatives, whenever they went overseas to deal with SEA affairs, as an extension of the American government. The CIA was prohibited from dealing directly with USSR controlled countries that the United States did not have diplomatic relations with, but members of the NSA could interact. With anyone they wanted, including student groups from communist countries, the CIA as the NSA to foam money to these student groups, influencing elections, and working to put pro American anticommunist leaders in charge, the students in these foreign groups were often the children of prominent military and political leaders through the NSA the CIA was able to start building files on these individuals and a mass data that may come in handy in the years to come when the suit. Grew up and took leadership positions in communist governments. And the CIA was able to identify individuals who may be partial to bribe to become an informant and report on what was going on in these communist countries. This went on for the better part of two decades. And it's worth noting that exposes on this relationship. Don't include details on any noteworthy intelligence. That was gathered. It's unclear how much the CIA really benefited from this course of action beyond a general sense that they were doing their part to fight communism. It's possible even likely that the CIA's actions in regards to the NSA were just another check Mark on their list of things they could do to fight the Cold War. They didn't even seem that concerned that their secret relationship would be uncovered in the mid nineteen sixties a series of articles were published investigating the finances of certain tax exempt organizations which included the NSA, though these early articles didn't outright make the connection they did lead to a string of pieces that claimed the CIA had a hand and funding certain outwardly liberal American organizations, perhaps, the CIA didn't understand the optics of such activities if they were made public. They learned their lesson. The hard way it was Michael wood, a college dropout, who had briefly worked for the NSA in nineteen sixty six who exposed the whole operation. I would was hired as an organizer and quickly came to the realization that the NSA conducted, no fundraising activities, the president of the NSA, Philip Sherburne handle donations, personally, would dug deeper and ultimately Sherburne revealed the organizations real secret to him would intern started to document as much as it could regarding the organization's finances. His work eventually made it to ramparts. A new left leaning magazine ramparts reporters built off of the information would had compiled they found that a huge number of donors to the NSA were in fact, dummy corporations, all of which had been set up by and were controlled by the CIA. CA officers got wind of the story in trying to get ahead of it by scheduling a press conference. They're intended line was that, while they had indeed provided money to the NSA. They had never acted to influence the organization, or its leaders, ironically enough. This is exactly what the leaders of the I, O, J would say when pressed about how much control the Kremlin had over them. They took the government's money. Sure. But they certainly didn't do the government's bidding naturally. People didn't buy it. The ramparts expose was published in March of nineteen sixty seven and soon became a national news story, as other reporters began looking into the story, they started to uncover dozens of other civil rights social political and'religious organizations that were actually CIA fronts or had received see. A money the entire network of dummy organizations came down in a matter of weeks. Michael wood was even asked in an interview, if he thought he had destroyed the CIA as an effective instrument in the Cold War, he hadn't, but he had lit the fuse, that would eventually lead to the explosive dressing-down of the entire agency in the mid nineteen seventies following the Watergate scandal, and Richard Nixon's resignation. Now, you may be wondering at this point. What all of this has to do with journalists or operation Mockingbird? The answer is two-fold first, the CIA NSA relationship revealed at the Central Intelligence Agency, employed nongovernment assets to conduct business or form relationships with foreign operatives abroad. Student groups were, particularly suited for this kind of work that could travel internationally were seen as not much of a threat. And we're afforded certain diplomatic protections as nonmilitary non-government civilians another class of person who met these exact criteria were journalists and the exposure of the relationship with the NSA would soon lead conspiracy, theorists to wonder who else to CIA had recruited to work as non agency assets. The second connection between the CIA NSA scandal and operation Mockingbird is the bold, shocking claim made by author. Deborah Davis in her nineteen seventy nine authorized biography of Washington Post, owner Katharine Graham Davis claimed that the NSA CIA relationship was part of the directive of an operation Mockingbird, a wide network of journalists used by the CIA to push pro American propaganda in response to the Soviet controlled, international organization of journalists, Davis's claim would come under fire, along with a lot of the claims, she made in her books, but she is the one who seemed to have I brought operating Mockingbird to the public's attention. But what really was operation? Mockingbird wasn't as widespread conspiracy as Davis claimed was it something more mundane? Did the program exist at all? We'll discuss the hearings of the church committee, the fallout of Watergate and the revelation of the real operation Mockingbird when we return now back to the story. In nineteen sixty seven ramparts magazine published a groundbreaking expose on the Central Intelligence Agency, and its financial relationship to the national student association in the fallout of the scandal, the national student association, formerly cut all ties with the CIA and went on operations for the next eleven years until it was dissolved in nineteen seventy eight and reformed into the new United States student association, the CIA, however, saw a cascading collapse of its network of front organizations through, which they had funneled money to various foreign bodies for the previous twenty years. The CIA had a hand in some of the biggest geopolitical stories from the Iranian coup to the bay of pigs, but now for the first time and it's twenty year history, the CIA itself was the front page news. And that's the last thing you want when. You're a covert intelligence agency. The nineteen sixty seven NSA scandal was the first in a series of events that severely, damaged the as reputation and its capabilities as an intelligence organization. The agency was brought down even further in the early nineteen seventies when it became embroiled in the Watergate scandal, we could spend an entire episode on the specifics of the Watergate scandal, but here the basic facts about how the CIA played into it, watered involved a break in at the democratic national committee's headquarters, committed by operatives of the Nixon administration Nixon's attempts to cover up his involvement in the scandal. Ultimately led him to resign from the presidency over the two years during which the scandal was investigated. It came out the two former CIA officials had been involved in the initial plan to break. Into the DNC offices. Even more damning was that in the fallout of the scandal. It came to light that Nixon, had personally directed the CIA to obstruct the FBI's investigation into his activities after Nixon resigned in nineteen seventy four in the full scope of his corruption was laid bare the American public's faith in their government was fractured. There are some who say it is never recovered, even to this day. There was naturally a huge concern about the CIA being used as the attack dog for a corrupt administration looking to obstruct Justice. The Watergate scandal had exposed, a massive web of corruption and subterfuge from within the highest office in the nation. The CIA with its murky jurisdiction in covert, dealings, was suddenly viewed as the embodiment of everything wrong with the government reporter saw their chance to really dig deep into the. See as most controversial secrets in nineteen seventy four New York Times reporter Seymour, Hersh published an expose on operation chaos and either legal CIA program. The placed American citizens associated with the antiwar movement under surveillance on top of that it went against their mandate to not operate on American soil. The Hirsch articles were seen by many as the final nail in the coffin of the CIA in addition to operation chaos Hersh reported on a number of other illegal CIA programs that engaged with everything from supporting foreign propaganda to attempting assassinations of world leaders, these exposed black ops programs were considered the first of a series of programs and actions carried out by the CIA that were finally exposed after the fall of the Nixon White House, this assortment of mostly legal activity. These came to be officially referred to as the family, jewels, the combined scandals of the NSA relationship Watergate, and now the family jewels, led to the creation of the church committee in nineteen seventy five led by Senator Frank church. The committee was tasked by congress to investigate the CIA's actions over the previous two and a half decades. And report on whether the agency had as her said violated its charter, the church committee conducted hearings and investigations for over a year before, finally publishing its findings in April of nineteen seventy six the final report was comprised of six books in seven volumes of transcripts from Senate hearings. The results were more than disturbing. The declassified sections of the church report revealed, an astounding amount of wrongdoing. The CIA had engage. Edged with the F B I to intercept and read the mail of private US citizens without a warrant. It had conducted a similar operation on international mail coming to and from China, the agency had commissioned numerous failed assassination, plots against Fidel Castro, the then president of Cuba. It had engaged in behavior. Modification research under the infamous MK alter program in this was just the work. That was declassified huge portions of the church committees reports on the family jewels were redacted when it was first reported on in nineteen seventy six. Won unanimous opinion at the time of the church committee's report was given how distressing the declassified material was the classified material must have been astoundingly worse. We should know here that despite the numerous bombshells included in the church committee's report, there was no mention of an operation Mockingbird. The world's media concluded from the declassified reports that the CIA hit engaged with a network of foreign journalists to push pro American propaganda. Carl Bernstein of all the president's men fame wrote an extensive article in one thousand nine hundred seventy seven that detailed the minutia of how the agency identified recruited and utilize journalists around the world, this article served as a foundation of much of what we think we know about operation Mockingbird today. Though we should note that Bernstein doesn't actually refer to the oper-. Ration- as Mockingbird on the actual name operation Mockingbird didn't enter the public consciousness until a few years later in nineteen seventy nine Deborah Davis published, Catherine the great Katharine Graham, and the Washington Post as far as we can tell this proudly unauthorized biography was the first public document, actually name operation Mockingbird, as we understand it today enacted in response to the international organization of journalists, and it's pro communist propaganda Davis claim that Mockingbird was overseen by Frank Wizner a former CIA deputy during the early nineteen fifties by the mid nineteen fifties. Mockingbird had members of CBS the New York Times Newsweek, and dozens of other American media entities in its pocket the broad goal of this program was to promote pro American sentiment among the increasingly restless youth. Of the country and to destabilize pro-communist media efforts across the globe. Now, we should note here that, Catherine. The great is not the most reputable source, the bibliography in the currently available version of the book has no sources for its claims about operation Mockingbird, and the book was actually pulled by its publisher after only a few weeks circulation when it became clear that it featured more than a few factual inaccuracies. But as Davis tells it, this was all an effort to discredit her because of what she wrote Davis claimed that the principal operative of operation. Mockingbird was a man named cord Meyer. All these facts may be tangential to the main saga of Mockingbird, but there are some conspiracies that think there's a deeper connection during his time as the alleged point man behind Mockingbird. Meyer was married to a woman named Mary pinch show. They divorced in nineteen fifty eight and Mary subsequently became romantically linked to none other than president John F. Kennedy Mary pimco Meyer was murdered in nineteen sixty four less than a year after John F. Kennedy was assassinated. Her killers of never been found and Davis maintained in the years after her book was pulled that her publication issues were specifically. Because she had talked about Meyer in the book. If you're interested in learning more about that story. I previously covered it in my other podcast, unsolved murders after the publication of Catherine. The great operation Mockingbird remained an unsubstantiated conspiracy theory for over twenty seven years. But then in two thousand seven the entire contents of the church committee report was declassified and made available on the National Security Archive. This declassified report actually did contain a reference to an operation Mockingbird. According to the report, Mockingbird was very minor surveillance operation that covered to Washington based reporters from month in nineteen sixty three it was not a broader global conspiracy, or a network of turned assets, rather, it was a phone tapping operation of two journalists Robert Alan and Paul Scott. They're calm the Alan. Scott report had broken number of stories that directly quoted classified intelligence and the CIA was tasked with finding out who their sources were when that's the official story at least, but the CIA knows better than everyone that the official story is usually only part of the truth, and our next episode we will look into the diverging stories surrounding operation Mockingbird. There are two explanations for what really happened during the mission. And both involve a mixture of fact and rumor. Conspiracy theory number one, Mockingbird actually wasn't a massive network of foreign and domestic journalists that actively promoted propaganda at the CIA as behest as the general assumption goes the real operation Mockingbird was what the declassified report says it was a small short operation designed to spy on to reporters a series of articles and publications about the CIA activities published in the nineteen seventies falsely attributed Mockingbird as the name of a much larger operation conspiracy theory, number two, Mockingbird was, in fact, a massive network of journalists turned into CIA assets that operated with no oversight throughout the nineteen fifties and sixties finally Unimar modern note will turn to conspiracy theory. Number three, the exposure of mock. Bird led to the creation of the surveillance state that America is today. One of the more frustrating things about the as actions is how little we know and how much we can suspect in the seventy year history of the agency, CIA Albertus have allegedly embarked on just about every kind of a legal covert operation when can imagine there are few things that are so outlandish that it's not within the realm of possibility to suspect, the CIA may have dabbled in them at the same time so much of the agency's sorted. History is redacted that will never get a full and complete view of the story. The CIA was established in a period, when the very nature of war was changing in the decade since the agency itself has helped lead the charge to change the rules of engagement in redefine, what is and isn't considered acceptable to ensure national security, even today, we don't know the extent of what the CIA does or does not do in its dealings with other nations. The agency's darkest secrets remain classified and all we can do is wonder about them. Thanks for tuning into conspiracy theories will be back Wednesday with the new episode. You can find more episodes of conspiracy theories as well as all apar- cast other shows on Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. Several of you of asked how to help us, if you enjoy the show, the best way to help is to leave a five star review. And don't forget to follow us on Facebook and Instagram at park, cast and Twitter at par cast network. We'll see next time until then, remember the truth isn't always the best story and the official story isn't always the truth. Conspiracy theories was created by mex- Cutler is a production of Cutler media, and as part of the park cast network. It is produced by Maxon Ron Cutler sound design by Kerry Murphy with production assistance by Ron Shapiro and Paul Moller additional production assistance by Maggie admire and Carly Madden conspiracy theories as written by Colin mcglaughlin and stars. Molly Brandenburg and Carter ROY. Now that are episode has finished. Check out my new show espionage. I've heard it and I'm telling you, you won't be disappointed, search for and subscribe to espionage, wherever you listen to podcasts. Or visit par cast dot com slash espionage to start listening now.

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#235: The Latest Science on the Link Between Cancer and Cell Phones with Dr. Devra Davis

Broken Brain with Dhru Purohit

1:31:33 hr | 3 weeks ago

#235: The Latest Science on the Link Between Cancer and Cell Phones with Dr. Devra Davis

"I think most people don't realize that a cell phone is a two way microwave radiating device it sends and receives messages in order to function and it has multiple antennas on it which are emitting and receiving microwave radiation because it can damage dna. This can lead cells to proliferate out of control which results in cancer today. We're talking all things cell phone radiation electromagnetic frequencies and five g. Should we be concerned or is it. A bunch of hype. Well we have a leading scientist in this field with over four years of experience investigating this topic and other environmental toxins. Dr dever davis and we're going to separate fact from fiction when it comes to cell phone radiation stay tuned. If you haven't noticed already a pretty obsessed with optimizing my sleep over the past few years. I've been incorporating simple affordable techniques to guarantee. A great night's sleep. What took me a while to learn when i first got started. Was that my daytime habits. Were affecting my ability to get depressed namely screen time. But let's be real. There's no way around screen time for many of us who operate our whole lives with a laptop or phone myself included the key is to minimize the effects of blue light or junk light which actually suppresses your body's natural melatonin production. So two years ago i started using blue light blocking glasses made by blue blocks and now they've become a nonnegotiable part of my better sleep routine. I really like blocks. Because unlike other mass produce brands their glasses are developed based on peer reviewed literature and the science of how light impacts our health. One of my biggest challenges was i strain. And that's completely improved since using blue blocks and get better overall sleep when i use these glasses especially when i'm using my phone or laptop at night blue-box makes tons of high quality. Blue light glass including their clear lens. Line blue light line to combat computer screens and artificial white and they also have a summer glow line to block blue light but at in a little yellow light for a mood boosting effect. I personally love their sleep lying which i wear a few hours before bed that blocks one hundred percent of blue light and green light so your body can start to produce melatonin and get you ready for bed. That's the key. Let your body do what it needs to do if you struggle with falling asleep. Combating blue light is one of my top recommendations. Blue blocks has more than forty frame options which are also super stylish which i knows important some folks there valuable in prescription and nonprescription readers. They even have kids sizes which i got from my nieces and nephews since school mostly switched to online right now blocks is offering my listeners. Twenty percents off just go to blue blocks. Dot com backslash drew and use the code twenty all when word that's b. l. u. b. l. x. dot com slash d. h. Are you with code drew. Twenty i hope you'll check them out and give them a try so when i was younger i used to snack on a lot of processed foods sugary snacks. To keep me fueled for sports in school. And i remember feeling i have this huge sugar rush followed by a major crash. I'd pass out on the couch for hours. Totally exhausted by the way i never around me thought this was completely normal. So here's the thing most snacks on the market. Even the ones labeled natural or gluten-free are so carb and sugar heavy that they spike your blood sugar and leave you feeling like crap. That's why we've done so many episodes on blood sugar. The key is to find snack. That has the right combination of protein and fats to keep you energized without spikes in your blood sugar. That's the name of the game for balanced energy. So i feel super fortunate that i finally found the best snacks from a company called paleo valley that hit my protein and fat needs. I love love. Love taking their products with me. When i'm traveling or i'm out for the day shooting. Podcast they completely nailed it with both high quality ingredients and really amazing taste and texture my favorites. My personal favorites are the pasha. Raise turkey sticks and the superfood bars. I love the pasteurize turkey sticks because they're made from truly truly raised turkeys. Which by the way is incredibly hard to find. The turkeys are given full access to the outdoors and grays on pesticide-free pasture pashas way better than traditional by the way they're not fed corn and a bunch of other junk. They're actually fed what they normally nature. I also love palley superfood bars. Because they're gluten grains soy and added sugar free and they have a hundred percent bone baath protein my favorite flavors. Dark chocolate chip. Who doesn't love chocolate chip. If you're on the hunt for better snacks for you and your family you should definitely check out paleo valley right now. They're offering my listeners. Fifteen percent off their entire first order. Just go to paleo valley. Dot com backslash drew. that's paleo yes like paleolithic p. a. l. e. o. valley dot com slash drew d. h. r. to check out all their clean paleo protein products and take advantage of this deal today paleo valley dot com back slash drew. Its in the show notes as well. Check out this fantastic deal today. Welcome to the drew perot at podcast. Each week we explore the inner workings of the brain and the body with one of the brightest minds in wellness medicine and mindset. This week's guest is dr deborah davis and were talking about the latest growing concern and science around cell phone radiation electromagnetic frequencies and radiation and of course five g. what's fact and what's fiction. Dr davis is probably one of the leading scientists in the world to bring on the podcast to discuss the subject. A little bit about. Dr deborah davis. She's an internationally acclaimed award winning scientists and author of more than two hundred twenty scientific publications and three popular books including when smoke ran like water. The secret history of the war on cancer and disconnect the truth about cell phone radiation doctor davis was the united states. Senate confirmed presidential appointee to the national chemical safety and hazard investigation board and served as an advisor to the united nations framework convention on climate change and the world health organization. She was one of the scientists who was the lead author on the intergovernmental panel on climate change and was part of the team of scientists awarded the nobel peace prize along with vice president. Al gore. Dr davis was formerly a professor at the university of pittsburgh and was one of the founding directors of the world's i center for environmental oncology. She is currently the president and the founder of the environmental health. Trust a nonprofit scientific organization focusing on drawing attention to men made health threats environmental health trust is considered a major resource for those wanting to learn more about environmental toxins and about the current. Push to depend on five g and five g towers. Dr davis lectures at american and european universities and her research has been covered in major scientific publications as well as being highlighted on major media outlets like cnn c. span cbc bbc and public radio. Dr davis it's an honor and a pleasure to have you here on the podcast. Thank you so much for being here. L. delight to talk with you. I can't wait to dive into it. So let's jump right in. I wanna start with something that our podcast audience is a little bit familiar with because we did an entire newsletter in episode series on. Em apps. But i want you to expand on it. So in two thousand and eleven the world health organization and The i a r c they classified. Ems as a group to be possible carcinogen now that was in two thousand eleven now. What a lot of people don't know is that since that time period there has been a lot of additional research. That has come out. And i'd love free to expand on it specifically the links between ems cell phone radiation non ionizing radiation and the link to cancer slash carcinogens. So can you start us off from there. I certainly can try. I think most people don't realize that a cell phone is a two way microwave radiating device it sends and receives messages in order to function and it has multiple antennas on it which are emitting and receiving microwave radiation now. This radiation is too weak to directly break the dna bonds that are in every cell of every living thing but it does break. The dna bonds a through indirect means. So it doesn't do it like ionizing. Radiation like x rays. Which were all familiar with is damaging but it does damage the dna indirectly and caused a condemning dna. This can lead cells to proliferate out of control which results in cancer normally we get damage to our dna all the time from sunlight from just being alive and because we have healthy cells with healthy dna. That damage gets repaired but what we know now from studies that have been done since twenty eleven is that this kind of radiation could be damaging cells. Let's talk about the kind of evidence that we have. We've really got studies. Done in cell cultures experiments done in petri dishes with cell cultures taken from humans and animals. We have studies done whole animals where we follow them. Over a period of time using controlled studies with designs that they've been standardized over many decades. And then we have studies in human beings where we look at people who for example have brain cancer or thyroid cancer and we compare them with those who do not have the disease but are the same age same experiences and we find out whether the cell phone history differs. and that's where we had the most problems because the data are difficult to get people don't live in cages. We don't control them like we can with animals but those studies also shown effect. So if we look at the experimental studies in cell cultures. Those studies were around in twenty. Eleven are now much more robust. There are many more of them most recently. An expert group advise the swiss government that looking at all of the in vitro evidence. And in vivo evidence there was clear evidence it cell phone. Radiation can increase what we call reactive oxygen species now. These are free radicals that can be like the coors of the cells they roam around and wherever they see a free electron they grab it and they cause damage and the right you act of oxygen species proliferate with cell phone radiation which is also emitted by your laptops your baby monitors and other devices which is why we at environmental healthtrust recommend wiring your devices for use in your home and limiting your use of cellphones and certainly explained to your children. That cell phones are not toys and should be used by children for emergencies. But not for everyday use. You said something very important. Which is that normally. Under most circumstances our body has a repair system. Even our brain you know. Our podcast started off as being more brain specific. Our brain has its own detoxification system repair system glenfiddich system and when we go to sleep we go into deep dna repair. Our body sends out all the cells to go through that repair process. But one of the things that were really talking about here is the volume of total exposure. That's out there and not just sell directly related cell phones but also one thing i really appreciate your organization is that anything electrical plugged in that we are in close proximity to also emits an amount of ems. Is that correct. It certainly is correct. And you wanna be careful about it because obviously we're living in the modern world we're not going to be luddites and go back into caves where the we don't have electrcity but we need to be smarter and safer about how we use these things. And that's what we're promoting it. Environmental health trust safer technology. Yeah that's exactly it here. We are were so thankful and lucky to be able to use zoom. I have a microphone. I have an apple. Mac book pro a monitor and really. It's not about going backwards. It's about we can actually live in harmony with technology and use policy sometimes public pressure and awareness. Which is what this podcast is trying to do in educating people to see the things that we can do ourselves the things that we can ask government in a healthy way right we have to be mindful of regulation but in a healthy way that can be protective and more importantly to get at the root of this information. That's happening in the industry. So let's talk about that for a second because when you talk to a lot of leading experts in this space or just if you ask even non-experts doctors Researchers that are out there. Who maybe aren't aware of this But our semi open minded even from their standpoint or articles that are internet. It seems that the data is sort of inconclusive. That hey some studies show and some studies. Don't show so. Let's wait and see so. Let's talk about that. Why is that the current view when it comes to emf in its impact on human health. A number of researchers of asset. Very good question. Why do we have so much wide ranging studies. Well let me tell you. There's been an industry involved here that makes the tobacco industry look like amateurs they manufactured out. As long as you're uncertain you can continue developing the industry continuing proliferating it and that is exactly what's happened here. The manufacturing of uncertainty has taken the fallen four. Let's say you want to study whether a certain type of cell is damaged by ems. We know we know from experiments that have been done that the more immature sell the more vulnerable. It is so studies that i've published with researchers from Austria and Have shown that when you expose younger cells stem cell to electromagnetic fields. You can damage them and affect their ability to repair damage. But when you take mature lymphocytes and expose them to this radiation. They're not as easily damaged so when you look at the studies that have been done and we contributed a machine learning analysis with helga. How move from australia as mouth. How from australia. We showed in that machine learning exercise that the in vitro studies clearly predominantly show in effect. Same results which were found by the swiss government expert group led by mikey medicine and we concluded that if you looked at sponsorship of the studies who pays for a study really influences the results dramatically where stand on an issue depends on where you sit and who has bought your chair and the bulk of the industry studies are finding very few effects and the bulk of the independent studies vine affects now. Most studies have been done and supported in the past by industry more and more recently. Unfortunately the best laboratory in the world was at motorola and that laboratory shut two decades ago basically closed down their operations and stop doing what had been really important work and i know from an industry insider the reason they shut the lab is that they were starting to show results. That were very inconvenient. So if you don't want the results known you kill the funding. And that has been a pattern that document in my book disconnect the truth about cell phone radiation when researchers in vienna showed that there was an effect and they had a laboratory a can they coordinated a multi-million dollar study for the european union with laboratories in finland working with finnish radiation authority with laboratories across europe coordinating study of whether or not cell phone radiation could damage. Dna and the industry. I attacked the researchers then attacked the funding but ultimately most recently that research was confirmed to be correct by other studies and the courts in austria ordered ordered the researchers that had been spreading false stories about the to stop doing it or pay fines for having spread false information attacking this research. It took ten years. There's tapped in my book called the doctor who danced with the devil about france. adl cofer. Who is the leader of that. Study and lawrence lessig at harvard. Held a seminar with us where he discussed this disgusted in one of his books as well and it was an example of the manipulation of science that has gone on on this issue for decades and that is why doubt exists it has been deliberately manufactured so long as you can say we're uncertain. Then nothing happens and you continue with the industry as it is. The fact of the matter is this is a complex set of issues and the complexity has been used across to the vampire. It's uncertain therefore we better wait will while we wait. Billions of people have become addicted to the technology in ways. That are unsafe. you know. We talked about cancer. And that's how we opened things up in an area that you have shared in previous interviews. That is probably one of your biggest growing concerns. Although they're all growing concerns is fertility. So let's talk about fertility. And why is that one of the things that you're really trying to sound the alarm on. What do we know about m. f.'s and their impact on both male and female fortuity. Well i published work with a very talented iranian scientist. Who's now in the united states musudan And we have shown that when you expose sperm to cell phone radiation you cause damage to the testicular proteome as publications studies done at the cleveland. Clinic have taken test tubes sperm from healthy men who are having fertility problems. Now one in one in every five couples the tries to have a baby when they want to fails one in twenty in the united states. As you know there are many different reasons for this ranging from tight underwear to other things but the failure of couples to be able to have a baby when they want to may have important linked to cell phone radiation. Because the study at the cleveland clinic that took these test. Tubes of sperm found the following a to live sperm exposed. Just for two hours to normal cell phone. Radiation has firm that die three times faster with three times more damage to the mighty conrail dna. Which is the engine of the sperm compared to the healthy firm in the same test tube not exposed not these two test tubes firm one exposed to cell phone radiation one not exposed clear evidence that cell phone radiation damages sperm. And in my ted ex talk. I explain this You know we need a quarter of a million sperm to make a healthy baby. The reason we need so many is that sperm. Don't know how to ask for directions. The reality is you want the healthiest firm to fertilize the egg. And what we're shown in research done by many different researchers around the world including sir. Richard aken in australia and is that sperm are vulnerable to cell phone radiation. Yeah and you know you've made the analogy before that is On a on a microscopic level sperm or swing the distance. If in in sort of people distance it'd be swimming from los angeles to hawaii that's quantity matters and quality also matters so if our sperm are going through insults of one could be cell phone radiation right as you're mentioning here. There's other insults. That are their insulin. Resistance to a too high blood sugar Chemicals that are in environment as one of your colleagues. I'm blanking on her name Right now but wrote a book on. Is that right right. And we'll both remember it shortly to really so it's as you as you've if you've made very clear in your podcast. There are multiple insults. We have to talk about their sugar. There's pesticides there's endocrine-disrupting chemicals which are unfortunately still proliferating in plastic containers for food and things of that sort and of course there's also cell radiation and is the combined effect of these insults that has resulted in the major problems. We are having with infertility in this in around the world today. Yeah and you meant. We talked about men but also with women. There was a study that was featured on your website that we linked to in a recent newsletter to our audience and it was from a kaiser permanente as research office and it was a doctor. Dick coon lee. Who talked about Inside of the non ionizing radiation exposure during pregnancy increases miscarriage risk and there was a follow up study that i believe if you remember that study off hand can you give us appointment may yes that study was done in china where you would never be able to do any a study like that in any other country. They took women who were scheduled to have an abortion. Remember that china had very tight control over women's production. They're now rethinking that and and they looked at the length of the embryo that was removed after. They had the abortion right. So this was a deliberate Investigation they looked at the electromagnetic exposures. The women had prior to the abortion. And what they found is that women with the highest level of exposure to electromagnetic fields produced embryos with shorter length and smaller buds. The but if the top of the length of the embryo is what becomes the brain. Think about this. They start out in what with one month with a smaller brain if they've been exposed to higher electromagnetic fields. What we know. Is that the embryo that becomes the fetus. That becomes the baby that the brain grows most of any organ and continues to double in the first year of life. And if the brain cells are fewer number starting out then of course we're going to see children with more problems and studies done by our colleagues in turkey. Suleiman kaplan and others looked in animal studies where they looked at animals exposed prenatally to cell phone radiation. And what they showed is that those animals produce offspring's with damage to their hippocampus. Now the hippocampus is a part of the brain the responsible for balance and memory and impulse control a very important part of the brain and his study showed consistently that prenatally exposed. Animals developed impairment to their hippocampus. Now tied out with other studies done in yale university by professor. Hugh taylor who has been the chairman of obgyn at yale. He took whole animals exposed them prenatally and then using standard methods for measuring behavior showed that the animals that were exposed to cell phone radiation had problems with impulse control and effectively attention deficit disorder that experimental study in a whole animal then corroborated the work done in turkey more recently more recently. Studies have found that children of mothers who are using cell phones more also have more attention deficit disorders and then in korea studies have shown that children themselves that are using cell phones. Have in their brains. Something that is characterized by the more. I in korea as digital dementia. This is eight and nine year olds. This is showing that children that are using cell phones regularly have effects in their brain that you can measure as a consequence korea and china to some extent also have digital detox camps. That can be pretty tough where they take these devices away from the children and try to train them in more reasonable uses of them because we are creating around the world today e zombies children who are unable to function without these devices and when you withdraw them from the children you get all the symptoms of withdrawal that we know about in a child that can take the form of tantrums and freaking out You will even find if you go to youtube and you look for babies on on ipads crying. There are young parents who are ignorant of the fact that an ipad should never be given to a baby and they're laughing as they take the baby and take the ipad away from it and the baby starts to cry because babies are attracted to all those fast moving things on the ipad and there is evidence that the radiation itself triggers dopamine in the brain and we know sugar cocaine other drugs and cell phone radiation if you trigger dopamine. It creates addictive behaviors. I mean so much to absorb for people and first of all for any parent. That's listening. I'm not a parent i know you have been apparent. And there's a so much in our modern times especially big social experiment of parents raising kids on their own not with the help of other people right and then on top of that you throw a pandemic where a lot of bowl were sort of a loan so i know a lot of parents just trying to get by and then you hear another thing you think like man. This is something else that have to do. And really the way that i would say if we zoom out and look at this conversation is that this is just part of being aware of different insults. If in the fifties somebody told you hey look like even if you don't smoke if you're around the smoke that people are doing on the planes in restaurants other things it could have serious impact on your health and actually make you more likely to develop cancers later on you would want to know about it right. You'd wanna know and it doesn't mean that if you ever smell secondhand smoke immediately going to get cancer. It's just reducing the total exposure and total risk and especially being protective of kids. Now one of the things you've been super About a super advocate of is that our body can handle a lot of different stressors. One version of stress is emf. Non ionizing radiation. That's a stress on the body. Now as we get older our skull gets thicker. So it's more protective over our brain but kids brains are very thin and valuable. So can you chat about that. On how exposure to kids is different than exposure to adults. I'm so glad you raised the issue of smoke because when i worked at the national academy sciences in the early nineteen eighties. We did the first study that recommended a ban on smoking on airplanes and at that time when we looked at the data we saw information about children and we saw the children were much more vulnerable. A child of smoking had four times. The chance of being hospitalized with bronchitis and even dying of an asthma attack and that evidence drove us in the eighties to recommend that children should not be exposed to smoke precisely because as you just said their brains are more vulnerable. Their bodies are growing rapidly and their brains are not as protected. their skulls are thinner. Other brains contain more fluid now to go to radiation. We know that the radiation from a cell phone or from other devices gets through a thinner skull. Much more studies done by industry and by my colleague claudia. Fernandez and alvarado solace in brazil with us at environmental healthtrust have shown when you model the brain of a child that you can get. The absorption goes were deeply into the brain and ten times. More exposure gets into the bone marrow of the skull of six-year-old than an adult. Now by the time they get older as you write a thicker. Skull is protective. There's no protection for the abdomen. There's no protection for the colon and the rectum with the phones in the pockets of so many young people all over the world today. And that's why we're so concerned about this increase in rectal cancer that we're seeing in people under the age of forty. We'd never seen that before. The the numbers are small but the increase is gone. Fourfold since twenty ten and that's publications from data from the national cancer institute and the seer program in the united states and iran. I've learned that subsequently similar increases in rectal cancer are showing up in brazil and uk. An egypt and again there are multiple factors including pesticides and sugar. The be playing a role here but the fourfold increase in rectal cancer. We you talked before about chat with bozeman and the terrible tragedy of the loss of such a talented artist at such a young age and he's an example where there were probably multiple factors. That could explain that but as you point out children are not small adults they need special protections and for cellphones as well as sugar and other things we really need to step up our ability to protect them. I want every parent understands something no matter how much you've been using your phones now if you have to give your kid device to look at download what you want them to look at and put it on airplane boat. Let them talk to grandma. And grandpa set up a stand so they don't have to hold the device in their hand. It's not that you can't use technology is that you've got to learn to use it more safely and information on that is available on our website. Unlike true the environmental working group has recently entered re entered this issue as well. And i'm sure to your work. Drew and dr hyman will get more of the message out about how you can wire your life and use phones and technology more safely. That's what we want to encourage. That's beautiful and it's an important reminder one sort of tangent note. I have a lot of friends. Do have kids. My older sister has as kids. I don't have yet. But i hope to have kids soon one day and i've been encouraging a lot of my friends who have young kids who have ipads you know Let's say like in the age group of You know four. Plus that are using ipads and even a lot of schools right. Schools will buy ipads and give them out to. The kids will get schools in a second and then the kids naturally are gonna wanna play games. I played a ton of video games. When i was younger. I've been a big advocate of getting parents to actually consider getting their kids console and for two reasons because the ipad games that a lot of parents get their free. And they're they're totally hijacking the brain because they have all these sounds and noises and tokens and other stuff. They have to be connected to the internet to play. You can't play by downloading it and it's like actually if you're gonna let your kid play a video game then it might be better to have a console and something wired. That isn't right up next to their head. You see a lot of kids. These days laying down on the couch and sort of watching very close to youtube and other things again. We gotta just do our best but maybe a wired console system might be a better solution in that in that case i agree in there and there are. There are other alternatives to the ipad as well. The ipad comes with directions in the operating manual. It says it has to be kept certain distance away. I think we should mention something about how these devices are tested. Please are tested by twenty five year old rules. That were set. When the average call was six minutes. The average speaker was a medical or military person. Usually a male they were modeled on a man who was the ninety eight th percentile of us military recruits in the nineteen eighties. His brain his head way. Twelve pounds his body way of over two hundred and those were the standards that we still test devices today including the ipad and the phone and the ipad comes. If you go to the operating manual online it says it can cause seizures be careful it says it should be used eight centimeters away from the body and now they make them with an accelerometer that supposedly reduces exposure when it gets close to a body but children should not be using these things except on a table. They're called tablets because they belong on tables. They do not belong on short bodies and small arms close to the reproductive organs. And the brains again we've modeled this and we'd shown using industry models that are approved by the fda with solace and fernandez available on our website. We can clearly show what happens with an ipad on the body is gets into all of the reproductive. Organs is no skoal to protect the lower part of the body and as a consequence exposure to children can be very high. Yeah and again. I just wanna acknowledge. How just really just tough. That is for so many parents. I mean some parents they literally cannot even have a date night out because they don't have maybe help so they're taking their kid with them. And i i feel for parents right in the situation because their child would not sit at the table without an ipad in front of them to watch something and so i. I know it's very complicated. As you've mentioned. I acknowledge it because it's not like we are unaware of the fact that this is a multifaceted uphill battle that requires education and personalization for each family. But we don't want to ignore it. That's not the goal we have to address. I let me say this you give your child. The ipad at dinner. Put it on airplane mode. There are things you can download for them to do their all right. There is a simple hack right. It's very yes it's the simple hack and it's i understand i said before it's dopamine right. It's an addiction. So you like anything you have to withdraw slowly and there are games. That children can play their puzzles. You can give them that they can play with. It are small that you can bring to dinner and there are simple things you can do. And i'll tell you something else that's rather set add. Recent research has shown the children of parents that rely on phones and other devices more than others by the time they're three and four have delays in speech acquisition parents that are using these devices more for themselves and their children are not talking to their children. Starting in infancy when a baby babbel's goo goo gaga. You've supposed to sit back to them because they learn to interact with you and by the time a child is a year old. The the kinds of babies babble. They make differ in different languages. If you're not talking to your child and talking back to them then they will not learn to talk to you as well. And there's also studies indicating a lack of empathy because the ability to look you in the eye the ability to understand me and you that's fundamental to development of the child's psyche. And if that's being impaired because in between you and me is a machine. That's a problem. We know the children who are on the spectrum. On the high functioning spectrum for aspe- girders prefer to interact with machines. They're more comfortable with machines than they are with people. you know. This reminds me of It's really highlighting the importance of and you know we can live with technology and it's important to have these other things too often though what happens. It's it's an or parents give their child and ipad and it's that verses also including the communication also including the deep interaction also including outdoor time. It was the same study that was done. And i'll pull up the journal and included in the show notes. Everybody can follow along. I'm blanking right now. But the one that basically showed that You know sugar is as addictive as cocaine right. That's a very common one that people know. Now what a lot of people don't know is there was a follow up study that was done with also rats and instead of putting rats in a cage where they just had the option of sort of sugar or cocaine and their normal water and food. They put rats in a rat playground and in a row playground. There was wheels. There was opportunities for exercise. There was the opportunity to interact with other rats or mice. You know again. I don't know what the proper term is. But one of the two and they found that instance sugar was not as addictive as cocaine when there was other options. That were included. And i think again you know why. I really appreciate your approach with everything that you talk about individually in your books and inside of your organization that you are not suggesting that we all wear a tin foil hat and shunned technology forever. It's that we need to have informed consent on the devices and technology that we're using and in addition reprioritising time in nature time disconnected from our phone which separate from the impact that technology in the ems on our brain our sperm or fertility or body. Cancer you're gonna get all the benefits of just being outside all the benefits of just disconnecting so. This is very much an and conversation like we can have all and that also includes fighting and raising awareness of why. This is such an important topic. So that's a little monologue that i just wanted to share because i feel like it adds context of the discussion that we're having that's beautifully said and. Let me add as you know. The japanese have a prescription for forest bathing. They actually right. Medical prescriptions for people who are stressed or dealing with some of the chronic diseases. That we all we all know are increasing and they get right. A medical prescription for forest bathing and people are then paid to go into the forest. Well it turns out that sonny's has shown that there are fido chemicals released from trees that actually have a beneficial effect on how you feel. I'm really privileged to live here. In jackson hole wyoming and we have an amazing environment although i must say the influx of people right now enjoying it is a bit overwhelming and we have to go hack into backwoods areas where nobody knows where the trails are yet but we live surrounded by some of the most majestic magnificent mountains in the world. Recently the national park foundation with a generous grant from one of the telecom industries of a quarter million dollars developed an app for children for our ended reality in order that they would be in the park look at their ipad and be able to visualize a grizzly bear in front of them virtual reality. Can you imagine a child is in the the park and they are gonna look at their ipad to see grizzly bear or a moves. Now i think this is a terrible idea on many levels. Starting with the fact that the radiation from the ipad is not something children should be exposed to regularly but it also fundamentally undermines the experience of being outdoor in the natural world where you can encounter some of the most amazing things by looking down and seeing even the little ants and how they are building their nests and how they work together or watching the hummingbirds with their wings beating eighty times. A second. and these are things that you don't see if you're looking an ipad while you're actually in the natural environment so actually. I wrote a letter. That i'll share with you. It's just published yesterday in the local newspaper. Here about why we should rethink this idea that we're going to have apps so people can experience the national parks through their digital devices while they're there now that's different than saying we should have the ability to experience the parks for people who are in wheelchairs new gannett or homebound. I think that's a good idea but to encourage it for people who are actually walking around trying to experience it. I think undermines the fundamental encounter with the natural world which the japanese have shown in publications is beneficial to your health. Yes i think it's important to have the discussion around these and also education. Because i don't know who's behind the app but i'm sure there was well intentions. They look at things like pokemon go which was a big hit and got a lot of people outside and walking and other things and then they're probably thinking like how can we get some of that but it needs to be do. We need to have the discussion context. And and that's a big a big part of it so let let's zoom out a little bit more and kind of build on some of the Questions you add in terms of safety here in america we have a few agencies. That are there that a lot of people are aware of that have been involved in a pivotal sort of safety standards. When it comes to all sorts of different aspects interventions and drugs and medicines Talk to us about the epa. The fda the fcc. What is it that they don't get. And how is it that day. Air could be in some instances A hijacking of these organizations from industry. Well i think you've hit the nail on the head here. What we have and i documented this in my book. Disconnect is a history where i the office of navel research. Then the national institute of occupational safety and hill then the epa and then the fda all had at different points of time really good research programs with brilliant researchers showing effects from electromagnetic fields alan fray for the naval research office Carl black epa for years led important efforts. The last survey ever conducted by the us government on the proliferation of electro-magnetic fields was conducted in nineteen eighty. Nine hundred eighty. There's been no attempt since then. And what happened to epa in the nineteen nineties when carl blackmon and his team showed effects on the chick embryo from electromagnetic fields in brilliant research that has since been replicated. The congress de funded the entire program. Telecom industry is one of the most generous in the world with our congress. They support republicans and democrats and they supported a lot of environmental organizations. As well and so for congress decided to de-fund the research it continued on for a little bit of time and then finally with completely cut fast forward to nineteen ninety nine when christopher portray who left to become the director at the cdc of the center for environmental health nominated nominated through the fda cell. Phone radiation to be tested in nineteen ninety nine at that time cell phones. Were not as common as they are now. Remember nineteen ninety-three when they first came out a phone at that time cost thousands of dollars which really meant very few people use them. The price of phones has dropped their accesses as increased so studies nominated nineteen ninety nine to study. Cell phone radiation. That study doesn't really get started until two thousand and nine after environmental health trust held an in national meeting in in washington. Dc work with senators. Tom harkin and arlen specter to hold a major hearing which was standing room only where the national toxicology program talked about their plans for the study. They've been asked to do ten years earlier. The study results came out in two thousand fourteen and immediately industry got a hold of them and started to put pressure on the national toxicology program which produced the of a thirty million dollar study that ultimately took arguably fifteen years to get released to get done and released. I should say and that studies showed clear evidence of cancer. What are the industry do. They subjected that national toxicology program study which was a state of the art study of rats and mice males and females. They subjected it to an unprecedented three day. Long peer review where they brought in toxicologist from procter and gamble and exxon mobil and other places to review the study. They thought well with these people. We're going to get a free pass. They were very surprised. The toxicologists that were brought in to independently review. The mtv results were shocked. They said not only. Was there clear evidence of cancer. There was multiple evidence of dna damage in different organs and this was in rats and mice. There was evidence of dna damage. There was also evidence of low birthweight in animals in some of the earlier studies. And so this review which ultimately got released in two thousand nineteen concluded that there is clear evidence that cell phone radiation at current levels and that would have been three g at the time can cause rare panthers of the heart tumors inside the heart and in the brain. Now these are rare cancers. That's the good thing. But they're terrible cancers that's the bad thing and we are seeing when we start to look closely at younger people in the united states brain. Cancer has now become the leading cancer in children over over taking leukemia which had been the leading cancer. Now there are many different causes of these things. That's the problem. I'm not telling you that cell phone. Radiation is the only cause of poor health of course not but it might well explain why we have an increase in atrial fibrillation in a health in athletes in the united states. It could be a factor with all the wires and things that young people are using as they work out nowadays. We don't know nobody's asking the question. Because research in the federal government has been cut in twenty twelve harvard university center for ethics. The saffir center for ethics issued a study written by. Norman ulster in the title of the study was the fcc a captured agency in that study. He documented the fact that for decades orient. The the people the fcc have come from and gone back to the industry. The most recent leader ajit pie under president trump was a member of the industry and went and has gone back The tom wheeler who was the obama point. he also came from industry. He was leader of the cellphone. A technology industry association the cellular technology industry association in the nineteen nineties and became the obama appointee to lead the fcc so this is not a question of republicans or democrats although i must say the republicans gave quite a surprise because what they did right before christmas of twenty nineteen right before the pandemic hit they issued a rule that said we are going to reissue our at that point twenty four year old standards for testing phones and we are dismissing the thousands of submissions that we received telling us that there was a problem here thousands of scientific submissions of reviewed publications many of which came from our organization many of which came from experts from abroad and we have to closing the record while they made a mistake. Because there's something called the administrative procedures act. It's been around for more than fifty years. It requires federal agencies to make a systematic rational record of decision making so the. Fcc did not do that it. Basically closed the record. It provided a few page comment from the fda that was hastily put together anonymously. A review of the literature after they closed the record and the environmental health trust is in the midst of one of the most consequential and monumental lawsuits on this issue. That has ever been filed. Our case is currently before the us district court of appeals for the district of columbia right below the supreme court and when the judges heard our lawyers argue and say where. There's no record of decision making. There's no proof that the fcc ever looked at all of the thousands of pages of submissions. The judge said to the attorney for the fcc. You're going to have to tell me why shouldn't rule against you. We are waiting for that ruling. We expect a. We don't know because there are a lot of legal issues here that that may go in our favour and that will then tell the fcc. They've got redo their standards. Which are twenty five years old now that puts it back to the fcc and gets back to your question of the federal government. We think the federal government. This point has been missing in action. And it's been a deliberate effort on the part of industry to de-fund the research. The chinese have a proverb. If you don't want to know don't ask. It's a very trying time and nothing changes without awareness. Which is why. I'm so happy that we had you on to talk about this. Because it's multi faceted. There's things that we can do to protect ourselves and we'll get into a little bit more of that simple things that we can all do immediately and you have some really great savings and and suggestions to help people with that. There is pressure that we can place on governing bodies by supporting organizations like your own in the process through litigation Through advocacy to protect people who for the most part as we get into five g. Which we'll talk about a little bit and increasing aspects of Technology proliferation generally speaking just like the processed foods industry. The people who are the most vulnerable are most often the ones that are most effective because they affected because they don't have the means they don't have time when you're working three jobs to listen to an hour and a half long podcast and you know they may not have the disposable income to to donate you know so we are not just looking after ourselves. This is not privileged conversation. This is also. Hey we have to look out for the people who can't do things just like in flint michigan when you had a whole group of individuals who were exposed to such high amounts of lead and the advocacy that was required amongst many individuals including our friend erin. Brockovich saying there are hundreds of flint michigan's around the country where lead is being exposed to people and once that damage is done it cannot be reversed and very similarly. There are parallels here when it comes to enough. Sorry were you gonna chime in well. I want to say that. I'm so glad you mentioned that. Because that's in fact what motivated me to get stalled started on this issue when my first grandchild was born very very bright boy he really is at nine months of age. He could crawl over to a phone. Turn it on and play rick a game at nine months of age. He's now a concert pianist at age. Sixteen I i like every grandparent. I was so proud because smart. This little baby is. But i have been on the cdc lead advisory committee. So i understood what you just said. You're absolutely right. The child brain is most vulnerable of any organ we have next the testers and the child brain grows fast within her skull if we fail to protect it. The damage that goes in from lead which competes with calcium and can stay in the brain permanently. The damage from lead in the first two years of life is forever. you can try to reduce it. But you can't completely a mitigate it. I work closely with her nadelmann when he first published findings showing that this happened not just in black and brown tilbern that in white children and he had huge pushback from the industry leading gasoline lead in paint etc but ultimately he prevailed although they tried basically to kill him professionally by attacking his work attacking his funding. It was terrible thing. And i've written about that in my in my first book. When smoke ran like water the lead story is exactly relevant to what we're dealing with today. Because the lead in flint michigan as erin brockovich pointed out is just one example. Lead is a problem all over the country now. The good news is the stimulus package that it probably will pass does include substantial funding for reducing lead in in water around the country. It's long overdue. It's something that my colleagues philander. And i've been talking about for thirty and forty years really. It's a huge. It's a huge problem. The problem that's unrecognized. Here is electro-magnetic fields also promote damage to the brain of children and we know from studies in korea that children with a little bit more lead in their brain who also use cellphones have substantially more damage to their brains and attention deficit disorder is published studies again. Career was one of the first countries to be adopting cell phones. And now they are rethinking what they did with children in their exposures because they're showing it interaction. What the reason. There's an interaction and this is very important. And i hope i'm not drilling deeply now. We've had loved the duck audiences with you. The electromagnetic radiation weakens membranes it weakens membranes member surround every cell if got the nucleus in the center you got the site oh plaza around the sellers a membrane. You weaken the membrane with electromagnetic fields and so any toxic and in the body withers increase. Sugar or lead can get more deeply into the cell because the membrane is weakened and studies have shown when you take a known carcinogen and expose it with electromagnetic fields to rats. You get an increase in the amount of tumors. They would develop so they developed tumors from the known carcinogen you can measure that. But if you add to the known carcinogen a small amount electro-magnetic fields you get a fold increase in the number of tumors and that study is available and as are others showing the synergy on our website. The good news part of this and there is good. News is that israeli. Scientists have figured out that you can use a type of electromagnetic field to treat brain cancer. If you had brain cancer you can use a type of electromagnetic field and then put chemotherapy or deeply into the brain with that electromagnetic field so think about that. Think about that. Apple is issued a warning that if you have a pacemaker. The apple twelve should not be kept close to the heart. But what is our heart after. All but our natural pacemaker. We need to rethink these things. And there's some simple things you can do. Starting with four words. Distance is your friend distance when we talked before and we troubleshooting. You had your phone like this. I had my phone on a speakerphone speaker. Phone headset will protect. You and a headset should be wired. Not wireless and the ear pods. Even though the exposure is less and the power is less. This is important point. It's not the power of the device that we think is most biologically active but the pulse the pulse meaning how fast it moves. Okay three g. four g. was nine hundred. Two point four billion cycles a second five will be five billion up to a hundred billion cycles second. That's why you can download a movie in three seconds but it also means faster. Exposures and fast exposures means that the pulse is more rapid and what we know from studies is the pulse of the radiation. How fast it goes. And how irregular it is maybe more important biologically than the power and that is why we're able to use electromagnetic fields for this whole new field of electro suitable calls where you can put electricity into a swollen joint. You can put electricity into an unhealed bone fracture and you can promote healing because it speeds up cell growth. That's wonderful but what if you speed up cell growth for cells that have started to be initiated from the sun for skin cancer. What did you speed up. Cell growth for cells that are quiescent in the breast for so many young women are keeping their cell phones in their breasts. This is a bad idea. And that is why distance is your friend. Used the devices away from the body and frankly use them less. And when you can airplane mode and especially as we've covered the podcasts pretty extensively and you guys have traded as well too when it comes to sleep and our body going into deep dna repair which is really one of the main reasons why we sleep being very careful to limit exposure not just cellphones. I mean some people literally keep their cell phone underneath their pillow because they want to hear their alarm when it rings bay. I think a lot more individuals are becoming aware that. That's not a good thing you know you want to keep your cell phone away from you. But in addition to that anything plugged in next to your bed when you sleep like an alarm clock like you know sometimes people have electric blankets Or other high voltage devices if we can move them a way from our bodies at night especially our brain which is so sensitive at night. We're gonna do ourselves a favor and that's something that everybody can do today. You know we may not be able to implement government change. We may not be able to you. Know do clinical trials on our own but this is something we can do today to protect ourselves especially at night. Watch out when things are close to you or nearby your body that are plugged in or or meeting. Ems that's excellent advice. And we we understand why you need to sleep in the dark. I'm using a blue light blocking glasses right now. All right and i recommend that people generally do that when they spend time on a computer as as i do from time to time but the reason i'm blocking it is that we know that the body needs to be in the dark. In order to make melatonin melatonin is. What is a natural hormone. That repairs damage does occur. Because we're alive. We can't avoid the damage if we get into deep sleep in a dark room with no lights flickering and with things unplugged. Our body produces more melatonin. Naturally and melatonin repairs damage. Interesting studies were done in sweden. That showed women who are blind naturally. Have higher levels of melatonin. They have about half. The rate of breast cancer is women. Who can see. That's because we think they're making more melatonin at night. The world health organization international agency for research on cancer a few years ago concluded that light at night interferes with melatonin and is a cause of cancer being exposed light at night men women and men who work late at night through the night you're cleaning crews and other people have significantly elevated risk rates of breast cancer probably from the fact that they don't produce much melatonin. Light at night is considered a carcinogen by the world health organization. So you want to avoid any blinking lights any light that you can get out of your bedroom and if you can't avoid it one another put a sleep mask on. It will lock like as as best you can because melatonin is very very important for repair now. Having said that my studies in turkey doesn't have my colleagues sorry. My colleagues in turkey have done studies where they took electromagnetic fields cells from humans and added melatonin. And what they showed. Is this if you took. The electromagnetic fields in the human cells could accelerate their growth. That's not a good thing. If you added melatonin you did not get the same effect so melatonin and omega. Three fatty acids things. I know you know very well can prevent damage that will occur from electromagnetic fields and in addition to that. You've talked about the importance of eating in anti inflammatory diet. You know keeping sugar at bay added sugars especially all these things help. Because it's very rarely. The human body is a complex system. It's not a vacuum where things operate sort of individually so anything that we can do to allow our body to function the way that it's meant to or adding protective layers or all going to be things that help us. You know the challenges sometimes for people that go down the rabbit hole of five g. electrostatic magnetic radiation heavy metals toxins in our water. Floride etcetera. And you feel or some people feel that a little bit of doom and gloom that. It's not worth it. It's like it's worse surrounded by so much crap we can't do anything in vacancy a little bit depressed but the reminder here is that there's so much that we can do and by starting on those things even if it's today if you haven't been doing them before they're still one step in the right direction i think that's very well said and i think it's important that what you're doing is really helping to save the world whether they know it or not yet because what you are doing is taking information that is often found in obscure journals and hard for people to understand and really explaining it in a way. That is quite approachable. And i really appreciate the chance to chat with you. Because that's so important right now. I i like to say especially to parents of young children during the pandemic. If you weren't depressed or anxious you weren't paying attention. I mean this was a very very tough time for all of us. And i think it's understandable. The world is coming out of a very depressed time. The economy was depressed are personalized were depressed. We had limited interaction with people. I was very fortunate really blessed to have my son and his family here At a time when a lot of people were just so isolated they developed covert early and they decided. Well they're gonna come out and keep us from getting it and that worked really very very well for us but most people were so isolated and so alone and then when you deal with all of these different things that can affect your health. It can feel overwhelming. So like in most things i i say. Please pick your battles start out with one or two things you can control. Sugar is absolutely one of them recognized that there is an addictive property of it. And like everything else. You wanna take yourself you wanna detox in their loss of advice that you and dr hyman have given people about how to go about doing that. And that's the same with this with this technology. You know people. Most people can't think of going out of their house without their phone. I can't imagine it but try going for a walk sometime without your phone. You'll you'll see more things and you won't be constantly interrupted. What phones do is they create a sense of emergency and having said that the truth is when you are in an emergency phone is a great thing but most of life should not be thought of as an emergency emergencies increased cortisol increase stress and really can be quite damaging to our overall health. I wanna tell you about a study that was done by nora. Volkov who is a director of the national institute of drug abuse and published in the journal of the american medical association. Brilliant study done by a woman who has an md and phd. Who helped develop the pet scan herself technology. She used pet scanning technology. Which can show you three dimensional pictures inside the brain and she had. Volunteers put on headsets than they did. Not know whether or not the headset had an activated phone signal or not. They just sat there. There was no sound. She showed fifty minutes five zero minutes of cell phone. Radiation exposure increased glucose in the brain in the part of the brain that was exposed most to the cell phone radiation. While now brains like glucose right we need it to function but this is showing you that there is a glucose hit from the cell phone radiation itself that is part of the explanation for the addiction of technology that and the things we learned from the wonderful documentary the social dilemma which showed that the software itself the lights and the hits that you get are designed to be addictive designed to want to have them to see how many people you can like and how how many will spread your message round and while you and i use the technology to get the message out of how to be safer. We want to empower people about the ability that they can do without it when they experience the natural world and to try to detoxify themselves from the dependency. That all have right. Now it's so key and it's hard but you know what it's it's worth it you know. The question isn't is something hard. Yes it's hard to sometimes clean up your diet. Yes it's hard to you know. Study for something that you wanna get better at or to get a degree in something. But that's not the question. The question is is it worth it and usually people who do right now a dear friend of mine. Dr runyon chatterjee who has won the top podcast in in the uk and europe in health. He's on a full month long social media detox on on instagram. And you know he is a best. Selling new york ties bestselling author. He's written four books. And yes you know. He does still have some team members that are keeping it up to date but then those team members. I'm sure at some point in time we'll take a break so this is possible. It's possible to still run your business. It takes work. It takes community support. It takes strategy strategizing with other people so it is hard work we are acknowledging that but the real question is is it worth it and i think you're really helping us to understand. It is worth it in this instance. I want to talk about a couple more things while. I have you While i have you here one of them is you know you talked about headsets. And i would be remiss. If i didn't get into this topic because i want to acknowledge you know apple for for making incredible. Probably what a lot of my peers especially entrepreneurs other things like that they've made the air pods which are wireless right their bluetooth and i use them for a short period of time when they first came out they literally one of the best headphones i've ever used and i would get a constant buzzing in my ear and i would feel a little bit of a headache and i very quickly. This was a few years ago when they first came out beta decision not to use them. I mean they're so successful. There they do twenty two billion dollars a year in sales on these devices that's bigger than most companies that they do just an air pod cells sales. And you know what i'm getting to is that the challenge is for a lot of people sort of twofold one yes. I'm acknowledging that they work really well for what they're trying to accomplish. The challenge on the other hand is even though of had friends. Anecdotally say like you know what that's weird. You mentioned you gotta buzzing in your ear. You didn't feel good. A little light headed your head you know. And it's not just the bluetooth. They also have a very powerful battery inside of the device that then sits in your inner ear as you use them. So you're getting that. Emf hit from multiple sides. You're getting it from bluetooth side. You're also getting the battery and electronic device which sometimes actually emits even more electromagnetic radiation than the the bluetooth self but the challenges if somebody wanted to measure that right like the same way that you get a blood test the same way that you get some other thing. I find that one of the challenges in the space hoping you can shed some light on it is that devices to measure this and standardization has been a little bit tough like so. Could somebody go and measure that Response to see. And what are your thoughts about. How testing needs to evolve to be a little bit more sensitive so that people can see instantaneously before they get cancer thirty years down the line that these things have an impact on their body real time. Environmental health trust wants to work to make every public library provide testing devices. Like this one. That i have right here. That people can use so that they have information about. What's going on in their homes. Right you can see. Mine is flashing moderate to slight. That's because right here green. Let's see yet in the screen. Moderate to slight. That's because i have no wireless radiation right here. I'm plugged in. I'm talking to you okay. People should have access to that kind of thing at the public library. It should be able to take out a device that can measure their exposures. Do you feel comfortable saying the name of that devices. At some years many different there are many different ones. I'm looking to see if i have others right here. Yes here's an. Here's i i use different ones and you feel that the off the shelf devices. There's a lot of them on. Amazon are good enough and that people could use some indication however there is no way to measure five gene it and then and the industry acknowledges that this one is Is is safe and sound pro. It comes from a company in. Canada does a very good job This one is a little less accurate. It's from cornet and Of just turning in it's again showing you can see very low where we are right now right and it's not quite as accurate but the point is to your question about the airports how to measure that because the battery is admitting a magnetic field right. The other part of the device has a microwave radiating electromagnetic field electromagnetic fields are complicated and the complexity has kept a lot of people from being able to understand it. And it's the fact that it's invisible you know that's a problem too right the fact that they're invisible we can't see it but you felted and you're not alone. A lot of people have told me that they cannot use airports because it has an effect on their they. Get this bud's but think about this. You're sending microwave. Radiation low amounts is going through the brain. How can that be a good thing. And how have those devices been tested. I think that it's a really bad idea. And i know it's a huge industry. And i really think that the ideal thing is that apple steps up to the plate and says look. We're going to make this technology as safe as possible what they have done. Is they allow you to lower the power and lower the volume. 'cause you've got several different things going on here. One of which is that. Children are showing up with eye problems and hearing problems now because of these devices eye problems because they're constantly going in to look and holding things close when they should be you know outside and changing their focal distance and hearing problems because often they're listening to noise too loudly and because some people are more sensitive and we didn't talk about this very much but there are people who are have electromagnetic illness. They cannot tolerate what most people can tolerate. It's a small sent presented the population but they are basically disabled by the modern world. And there it's very very difficult situation to live with and it's part of of why other groups have formed to try to advance con their concerns. Why should people who have electro-magnetic illness. Not be able to live in the modern world. Yeah they gets into a whole other topic. That i'm sure we can chat about couple of anecdotes right. Yeah that's our couple of anecdotes here. Don't wanna mention that you've been really really great at i i won't go into it. But i'll link in the show notes. I had somebody fly out to where. I live in los angeles and one of the things that i found is that i was. You know because you mentioned it so complicated. I was having him test at different levels and one of the things that was that was found is that i have an electric car. A lot of people sit in their electric car when the car is charging that is that was the highest amount of exposure out of anything in my life including being next to a laptop a cellphone in terms of total radiation exposure. So now when i charge my car. I don't sit inside when i'm when i'm charging the car and i found that very cab. Do you have record. Actually we are. We are starting to launch a new study to measure voters to the baby in the car seat of the back of the electric car using the ipad while the cars charging while the wealth. There're exposed and we know the exposure is going to be high and nobody nobody that i ever talked to had ever measured what you just told me so. Please i need to get what you did. And we're doing this study with researchers in portugal israel and brazil because those countries have excellent researchers. And we can do this study in those countries for one hundred fifty thousand dollars. We could never do it in the united states for a lot of res. Yeah i'm happy to send you some details. And i might have somebody that has access to some more database of information. I just wanna be clear. Mine wasn't while i was driving mine was when it was charles but a super charger. I have a tesla. And i was sitting next to a super charger. And obviously those are very powerful machines to charge. It wired's to wireless charger then notes. A wire chargers so it's a wired super but the high voltage one high-voltage yup and already we know it's almost similar to power line right. We already know that power lines can increasing exposure to radiation that that's there and The other one that that it's surprisingly a lot of people a little hack that i incorporated my own life. Is i try to charge up my laptop and use if i use the laptop non on my lap on the table when i'm not using my laptop continuously plugged in Or if i'm using a desktop that it's a way for me right distances your friend. That's your advice by exposure was more to the laptop when it's plugged in then not that would make sense right because the laptop is directly plugged into the outlet so i got into a habit of charger. Laptop dan unplug it than use it for that period of time when the charges done you know. Take a break reloaded. But even things like that can have more exposure radiation than than cell phones just themselves. I just wanna make sure that everybody's aware that this is a multifaceted issue and there's other as pack that you just said because it does two things by charging your device and using it when it's disconnected. You're avoiding exposure to the electromagnetic field. You're also saving your battery life batteries last longer that way. Whether it's you should not use your phone or any device when it's plugged in because it is you're gonna get more exposure from that electromagnetic field absolutely. You've got some very important acts. i'm. I'm really thrilled to hear about it while i'm standing on your shoulders because you're really a pioneer in the space to really bring to light the evidence and you're involved in a lot of these trials that you've mentioned in your connected with a lot of the researchers around the world that are paying attention the space last sort of question because i think this is important because there are companies that are out there that are very gimmicky and trying to take advantage of this opportunity by selling all sorts of different stickers and devices. Does any of that stuff work. You know you slap a sticker on your phone you slap a sticker on your headphone or your laptop and it's supposed to all of a sudden removed. The exposure to your body set the set. The record is any of that stuff work in your in your opinion awareness so far if it's too good to be true then it's not true and i have not seen any device that works. There are some cases that have been developed that do reduce radiation. And i don't the names of the companies keep changing. They have tested. they have shown it. You can reduce the radiation but the best thing is distance is your friend and just understand wired headsets or speaker phone. Do not use your device when the signal is weak because it's smart and it will use more energy to reach the signal and half of that energy gets into you if you're carrying it on your body. Those are some simple pieces advice that we give that i think can make life a lot easier before we close. I do wanna talk a little bit about california and five g. Please please the floors. Your listeners need to know that right now as we speak the california legislature is on the verge of passing a bill that will allow them to put a cell tower on every street light. The could be within six feet of your home especially in the urban environment in order to install five g. One of the things that the stimulus package has in it is billions of dollars to close the digital divide. That's good we need to close the digital divide. But we don't need to do it with five g. wireless. We need community. Broadband control we need. Fiber hoods like in saint. Louis were the whole city became wired and this provides access to people who can then plug in. It's it's more efficient. It's cheaper with five g. In order for five g. to work you need a five g. Phone five g. router a five g. computer a g. baby monitor a five g. Coffee pot and while a lot of appliances are being manufactured but this capacity nowadays. It's not gonna close the digital divide. What five is a major marketing plan for the industry. It's the next generation. We want safety. We want whatever the next generation is to be safer than what we have now and frankly we need to improve what we have now to close the digital divide so we need to take the technologies and make them as safe as possible if we're moving to electric cars. We need to make sure that. There's a carbon layer that protects people inside the car from the exposure to the electromagnetic field from the battery which is often in the back where the child sits. That's why we're we really want to have the study done as soon as possible. And it will be very important for the design of the future that we know about this because where we are with these devices today is where we were with cars in the nineteen sixties when ralph nader and a few others said look. We've got to make cars safer. we need seatbelts. We need airbags. it's going to save lives. We need the equivalent of seat belts airbags on our phones and our computers today and there are simple hacks such as the ones that you've mentioned and others that are available on our website of what you can do. It's not that complicated. It really isn't. And i think with the conversation that we've had today. Hopefully we'll start people along the road of thinking. What can we do to reduce our exposures to this agent at the same time while not reducing our ability use these amazing devices a powerful reminder and i wanna thank you dr davis for coming on the podcast really continuing to spread your message in advocacy anybody. Who cares about these topics. They really need to know about your name because you are at a central point of the intersection of policy The history of having been involved with the other movements that are there that are similar in parallel which also gives you the respect of your reputation in those areas and awareness. That industry would be using the same tactics that they used before to try to defeat confuse or pollute the idea around safety for these areas and the other component. Because you are an advocate of health yourself the practical tips and the reminder that there's things that we can do today But we do also need to support organizations. That are out there. So i'm going to throw out a little plug for your organization environmental health trust. And you guys have this lawsuit. Lawsuits costs money. You're doing all this research. That's out there to I don't make a lot of requests my audience but just this morning. I signed on to be part of your patriotic group. And i'll put a link to that inside of the podcast. I would really encourage folks that are listening that if you wanna see that. There's a difference being made. Please participate five ten fifteen twenty five bucks. A month makes a difference to a nonprofit on a huge level for them to do the work that they need to do anywhere else. Davis that you want to send our audience or bring awareness to them just on the five g. issue if you live in california contact your representatives asked not to vote on it or to vote. No and frankly we're going to ask governor newsom if the bill does pass to veto it and for that to happen. We need the public to weigh in and say look. We don't need to have more antennas close to our bedrooms right now. We need the basic infrastructure to work. We need community control. The california league of cities is on record as opposing. These bills right now that are going through the legislature and we need people to get involved to understand. There's a site for americans for responsible. Technology and that group has been pushing hard on this issue and i would urge your listeners to check them out as well for information about what you can do in california. We have that information on our website. Which i'm sure you will feature and we'd love to work with you to make sure that californians end up with a protected environment. It's kind of ironic. That the state that has been such in the forefront for controlling exhaust from cars and controlling air pollution and controlling all mineral extraction and so many wonderful things and protecting the natural environment which is so unique in california. It's rather ironic that they're poised now to desecrate all of that without even understanding what lays before them and that is why this podcast is so important because it gives people a chance to hear. Look get involved. Get informed and understand as margaret mead. One said the only thing that changes is public policy is when a small group of citizens gets together and starts to act. And i wanna thank. You drew pro for really making this. Come about thank you so much. Oh well i appreciate you. I was there in person. I'd give you the biggest hug ever. Thank you for your work for advocacy. Dr deborah davis appreciate you being on the positive thank you. It's a pleasure to.

Dr davis paleo valley swiss government rectal cancer Dr dever davis dr deborah davis Dr deborah davis national chemical safety and h world's i center for environme america adl cofer Richard aken australia korea Dick coon lee Suleiman kaplan Hugh taylor yale university
Dr. Devra Lee Davis 5-10-20

CATS Roundtable

10:39 min | 1 year ago

Dr. Devra Lee Davis 5-10-20

"Good Morning America. This is the cat's table chunk. Tv's here Sunday morning. Well we got attacked by the virus. Maybe the Hornets are coming. Who knows what other environmental issues are there around us back hurt. Our families are hurt us. What is this morning is not the Deborah Davis? She is president of the environmental health. Trust a nonprofit organization focusing on health issues and your environment. Good morning how are you? Thank you John. Delighted to be with you. Tell US exactly what your biggest concerns are with. What's going on around us right now? Well I'm very concerned about all the time. The children are spending indoors on their computers. Because they have to do that. In order to stay up with their schooling. We know that the kids aren't necessarily going to learn through that as much as they would with direct contact with teachers particularly for elementary school and especially for science based courses but I'm concerned about the exposures that they're getting to electromagnetic field from their devices because most parents are not aware that the IPAD and the cell phone are two way microwave radios and microwave radiation. Although it's very weak from these devices the pulse signals can have profound biological effects. And we need to do a better job of communicating why and how people can reduce exposures. We have that information on our website at E. H. Trust Dot Org and we're trying to promote awareness with teachers and parents about the simple things you can do to reduce your exposure but a new exposure is looming and that is five G. Five t doesn't exist in many places yet but because the infrastructure has to be built and because the signals don't travel far you will need a new antenna about every hundred yards. I understand that's a lot of antennas and on our discussion that you say that some of the cities of proposing almost amendment domain where I heard that they putting a palm trees and building a China's into the palm trees. So people don't know that's exactly right you can you can. Actually there's a whole business of disguising antennas. You can put them in Bob's big boys. Mcdonald's signs palm trees pine trees etc. But the fact of the matter is you can hide. The antennas cannot do away with the radiation that they are admitting. And it's not justify radiation we're concerned about but for five G. to work you have to have five device so for now wherever those new antennas will be. They will be using three G. and four G. and those earlier frequencies which is what powers your phone and your laptop right now have been shown to cause cancer to damage sperm to reduce memory in in children and those studies all of which can be found on our website have been peer reviewed and have clearly established that this other forms of radiation on which we currently rely those forms of Radiation. Our health damaging. We know that now the problem is we've become so leap totally dependent on the technology so the first step we have to take is to wire our systems at home where we can and it's very easy to do by the way. Just get an Ethernet cable plug it into your router and plug it indirectly and it's not that hard again information on all of that is on our website at H. Trust Dot Org. We are not anti technology recently pro health and I think people have a right to know if they're having trouble sleeping if they're having trouble with their memory. Try using less of your device. Try Not using your device for an hour before bedtime. Make sure you sleep in the dark because with no lights and no devices nearby and certainly not allow children to sleep with their phones or have their APP. Top of their I bet fall on their comey discussion. The other thing we talked about is in some of the city's Lloyd's of London has refused to ensure ensure those kinds of things. Tell us about that. Well in fact there's a number of cities that have been told. They have no choice but that they must Allow these powers but in fact the city has every right to ask the cell tower companies to provide proof that they have insured against any problem. That could happen with the tower. And the reality is since nineteen ninety-seven Lloyd's of London. Swiss re the people to underwrite insurance for businesses have refused to cover any damage from electro magnetic fields under a general insurance exclusion and so if the cities are asked If the city's go to the companies that want to build these towers and say show US proof that you have insurance. They won't be able to do that. And so master. Licensing Agreements which are being accepted by these cities. What the cities can do is. They can require that proof of insurance and with the cell phone Towers companies Have been told is that electromagnetic fields are pollutant and damages will not be covered including under. At and T. Mobile Insurance. The explosion is for any loss caused by this charge. Dispersal seepage by gration release or escape of lecture magnetic fields so electromagnetic fields will not be covered and every cell phone company defines electromagnetic fields as pollutants and. These pollutants cannot be insured. So the city's can I say show us you have insurance and they won't be able to show it because in New York New Jersey. We have one big Equality Alpine Tower has all sorts of ten on it. And everybody knows that if you live would stone's throw that place If you have a house there you can get cancer so so are you saying that. Yeah now wait wait wait you know. I don't think of first of all the good news about cancer is. It's not a death sentence that we do have better therapies now. But what we can tell you. Is this studies that have been done where they take blood from people who live closer to towers as a pair as compared to those who further way have looked at biochemical markers in their blood again? This is peer reviewed and his five found chemical compounds that we know predict cancer risk as well as damage to the nervous system are more high levels of those chemical markers in people who live closer to cell towers now towers can be made operate in a different way and the allowable amount of emissions from our towers in the United States is much much higher than in Switzerland and other countries where they have more sophisticated rules and monitoring we have no monitoring at all of what's coming out of our towers not being monitored so we depend on them of course for cellphones but the whole issue of five G. is being rethought and that's why Swiss re wrote a report last year before covert which they said five. G. is off the leash meaning out of control and they will not cover any damages for it so with the telecom lawyers come in and they threatened to sue the city. If the city doesn't agree to permit the towers but the city can come back and say give us your insurance. And they and the city cannot be held liable if they deny a permit because of the failure of the company that show that they can ensure against jam now. What else got the public? Everything pandemic threats of course Actually done I'm doing research with people in China right now that I think people need to know about and that is that they have shown the effectiveness of taking vitamin C. prophylactically to prevent covert and to make it less serious. And let me tell you. One interesting anecdote. A family of four people was taking care of a fifth member who was ill. She turned out to have covert she ended up in the ICU. On ventilator as you may know in the early days of ventilation most people on ventilators died certainly in China. That was the case. Eighty New York eighty percent of the people on his side. Okay well we now understand why that happened. First of all they were using too much pressure. For the oxygen the lungs people with Acute Respiratory Distress Syndrome. Which goes along with this? Which is what actually kills. People are not able to take such high pressure and so that is one of the reasons why so many people died but this family did the following because one member was very interested in nutritional things taking between one to six grams of vitamin C. A day with a with five thousand units of the and fifty milligrams of zinc right so it's vitamin C Zinc and e and had every member of her family. Who were helping to take care of the sick person who had covert. They know she has. She had covert alright cheese in the hospital. Either all adults. They don't live together but they all have been exposed through. They're taking care of their grandmother Davis at a time. But I tell you what happened. None of them got Cova. Did Not a single one of them got code and the grandmother who in high vitamin C High Vitamin B. And and so Stan Sunshine on the beach and a lot of the e lots of fruits and vegetables and keep your distance. Keep your distance. You got it John. Dr Deborah Davis. Thank you so much. And that's up again real soon. I look forward to it. Thank you so much. This is the Test Roundtable. Be Right back.

Dr Deborah Davis cancer China Swiss re London Lloyd E. H. Trust Dot Org president Hornets H. Trust Dot Org Equality Alpine Tower New York T. Mobile Insurance Respiratory Distress Mcdonald Cova Bob
A Toxic Turkey Day

HISTORY This Week

27:20 min | 10 months ago

A Toxic Turkey Day

"History this week november twenty fourth nineteen sixty six. I'm sally helm. It's thanksgiving day in new york city and an awkward top-heavy superman balloon is floating down broadway. He's first up in the annual macy's day parade. There are a million people watching the streets moms and hats and mittens kids and checkered coats. There are marching bands ballerinas people waving palm in front of a castle on the toyland float on the flower float. Is the famous nina simone. She thinks the song blue skies but the skies are not blue in new york city. Today they're great. The clouds look dirty and after they leave the parade ballerinas and the marching band musicians and the pom pom waivers. Something might feel a tickle in their throat there is might be stinging they might even find it hard to breathe because while the macy's day parade is happening in midtown manhattan. The city's air laboratory up in harlem is recording extremely high levels of pollution. New yorkers have dealt with pollution before but nothing like this guy over this thanksgiving weekend the smog will turn deadly time all is said and done close to two hundred people will die the killer smog of nineteen sixty sex forces new yorkers and people all around the country to finally pay attention to the air pollution that they were actually breathing all the time. It's hard to talk about. Smog and smoke and air pollution dangerous without reflecting on humans inability to take chronic threats. Seriously there seems to be something about the modern mind that longs for this kind of conduct vision the big disaster rather than the toll. That your lungs. Your is your body supper each. And every day today the apocalyptic vision comes true. How did new york. City's killer thanksgiving smog. Help usher in a new era of environmental protection for the whole country. And how are we still looking at environmental disasters all wrong one for mom and one firm me. Hey beautiful ulta beauty invites you to see the joy this holiday season with tops gifts for everyone on your list including you discover black. Friday deals all week long from brands. Like tart collared pop i. They'd beauty and more shop in store online or try curbside pickup today also beauty. The possibilities are beautiful. This episode is supported by sling tv. Our producer mamie tried it out. Mckay me when did you think thanks. Allie as you know. I'm a huge fan of live tv. But i also like to stream my favorite shows so i can really binge them. That's why i like sling tv so much. It's the best of both worlds. Slaying has all my favorite channels. Obviously the history channel any and lifetime and even live news like cnn and msnbc plus sling has over fifty thousand shows and movies on demand. Lately i've been binging modern marvels unslinging. It's even some great ideas for this. Podcast and sling is super affordable. Starting at thirty dollars a month so make the smart choice and switched to sling tv. Get the best of cable for the best price. It's easy to switch and save things. Mckay me learn more at sling dot com slash. Podcast that is sling dot com slash podcast. He history fans keep up with all the great shows and documentaries on the history channel by signing up for email updates had to history dot com slash email to get updates right to your inbox i to know about premieres sweepstakes jabbour shows and so much more keep up with her of oak island pawn stars american pickers groundbreaking documentaries and warm sign up today at history dot com slash. Email professor frank. You grew up in germany but in the nineteen nineties. He came briefly to live in the united states and it out to la wonderful hometown and also a notoriously smoggy city. You could are has read all about the worst years of smog in the nineteen fifties couldn't stand at a three quarter in those early fifty s and not have watering is. He told us by the time he was there in the early nineteen nineties. Things were much better. Know watering is but still. He got curious about air pollution. He began to look into the history of smoke. And also it's modern cousin. What is smog. This is a term coined by a londoner smog as a combination of smoke and fog which describes the situation in london every nicely. This is ninety four when the treasurer of the coal smoke abatement society in london england sense of christmas day letter to the times of london and with that coal smoke abatement treasurer makes up this word that we still use today. Coal smoke is a problem at this time in london and in other cities to the world industrializing rapidly factories everywhere and a lot of those factories on coal combustion. So if you are living in a city that is becoming a center of industry it was dirty in a way that is barely speak of on nowadays because the smoke was everywhere in the big cities it intruded into private quarters. It was literally in the air everywhere. You can actually see it from outside. The worst kind of dark cloud over a city and people were very much against it but not so much for health reasons mostly due to the fact that the early twentieth century city was unhealthy on so many fronts. This was ranked as a minor issue. You gotta deal with your sewer problems before you deal with your smoke problems. But still people hated the way. That smoke. Just made everything. So dirty and ugly and gross. It's mostly a problem of cleanliness in by extension a problem for property values. It's not for real estate bellies. That's what people are upset about how this would affect their bottom line. Meanwhile the particulates that they're breathing in our very bad for their lungs. You may have seen an image of the black lungs of a city dweller compared to the nice pink lungs of someone who grew up in the country. That's beginning to happen for the first time but doctors epidemiologists won't be aware of this kind of damage for years over the last three decades. We have learned a great deal about how dangerous find us. Actually as to the lots we nowadays no that fine dust is actually among the top ten killers in the world. Its iron new history that we only became aware of how dangerous this is at a time where it was mostly gone into western world but retrospectively. We must say this was a matter of life and death so no one is doing all that much about air pollution or smog. Because it's not seen as a deadly problem but there is a very particular set of circumstances in which smog can be lethal. Smoke becomes a killer particularly when weather conditions impede dispersal off flute and that's usually the results off an inversion layer. An inversion layer. Normally air is warmer close to the earth and it gets colder as you go up. You may have experienced that. If you've ever climbed a mountain you may also know the concept that heat rises so typically warm air is rising up from the earth. Getting colder as it goes up and dispersing and flowing and moving around but sometimes this whole situation gets reversed. Warm air slips on top of cold air. The cold air does is so it's trapped. The warm air acts like a lid basically traps pollutants in the place at the place where they are produced and causes them to accumulate in the atmosphere when this happens pollutants buildup and smog can become deadly in the us. The first major smog event happens in july of nineteen forty three los and our lady the queen of the angels as the spaniard named the fastest growing city in the nation up until the forties had been known for its clean air. If you had to urculo says you went to la to breathe those california breezes and clear out your lungs. but now i've been forty. Three is when the i l. a. Smoke episode comes you at watering. Is your breathing problems. Visibility is terrible. The air smells like bleach and it all comes on suddenly on july twenty sixth. Nobody knows what it is. What is the pollutant. Doesn't come from its world war two so people actually. It might be a japanese gas attack. And this smog is different from london. Smog it's not really about smoke. It's photochemical smog. Where pollutants from card sauced and factory production cause chemical reaction in the atmosphere. That creates this particular. La smog plus la is two inversions because of its top poker graffiti. It's bordered by mountains. But people won't figure all this out for almost a decade the science just isn't there yet thankfully in nineteen forty-three no one in la dies from the smog but five years later in nineteen forty eight. The northern pennsylvania was the biggest air disaster in the united states until new york city in sixty six. This is an industrial community around a river valley don on the industrial town of pennsylvania and brings with it mysterious residents have difficulty in breathing. The murkier rain brings relief but epidemic of pneumonia is in the wake of denaro deadly golf. The valley where dinara sets is ripe for inversions and there are steel mills and sink plants in the area spewing off pollutants on halloween in nineteen forty eight pollutants get so concentrated that the local fire brigade has to go door to door giving people oxygen twenty people died. It's the deadliest toll per capita of any small episode before or since and this gets national attention. These events to at least function gets gets noticed. What happens if the door is that. The federal medical authority is asked to investigate. What happened here. The investigators link the pollution and deaths to noxious fumes coming from the local factories. There are a few lawsuits. But that's what it. There is no legislation to warning system. This is the factory and the factory is calling the shots. Of course the factory makes sure that next time there is an inversion more careful factors. Don't want to kill the neighbors but there are no real consequences for the factories. There's also very little in the way of national or a global effort to prevent disasters like this from happening again and one does happen again in london which remember had invented the term smog in nineteen. Oh four but since that era they kinda gotten off scot free the best guesses maybe they were just lucky for a few decades but then this returns in late nineteen fifty two this will be the deadliest smog ever it also comes from an inversion that traps pollutants released by factories by city residents epidemiologist. Deborah davis wrote that in london quote. Smoke like top water from a million chimneys in the london smog of nine hundred fifty. Two four thousand people died within a few days. The death toll and the filth rose together the killer smog lasts for months. Thousands of people die though it takes a while to entangle. Just how many people die from smog. It's not like the diet immediately. There was no kind of imminent calls the identify but it's a burden on the respiratory system. That may get a heart attack. They be get breathing problems his about the best estimates that we have suggests that twelve thousand people died prematurely during that. Smoke is a nineteen fifty two and this case there is some regulation four years after this killer smog. Britain passes a big law about clean air. Though doctor you says activism had been happening even before the big smog. So the reality is that this flashy moment of action after a disaster was just one piece of larger puzzle which brings us to new york and the united states last killer smog because of a slow drip of activism and reform and scientific progress. New york isn't totally unprepared for something like this by nineteen sixty. Six meteorologists can sort of predict inversions and there are some regional pollution monitoring systems in fact right before the smog. Event happens the. Us senate committee on public works puts out. This video contains a variety of chemical compounds released from a great number of diverse sources of air pollution. Many of these compounds are oxen. Corrosive and irritating under the influence of sunlight warm temperature and water vapor polluting substances. React with each other in the air to produce new compound more destructive and entertaining their original component of chemical marks. Officials are beginning to understand what they're up against but in new york city. The infrastructure still isn't ready for the disaster that is about to strike. There's a city department of air pollution control but they only control things up to the city limits. There's an interstate sanitation commission but they're mostly focusing on water so any kind of framework that you need for comprehensive drives against pollution. It's just bought. Their new york city does have a smog alert system and a way to monitor and measure pollution. There's one lab in an old courthouse in harlem and a few days before thanksgiving. It starts recording elevated levels of air pollution. It's a combination of the everyday pollution in new york city. There's the garbage. There is to car traffic factories. There is the paul plans And there is a weather situation. That kreps these pollution's closest and inversion all this combines to create a deadly smog bubble over new york city the day before a million people are about to flood the streets. You look tired. I take it the caffeine toothpaste and adrenaline face serum aren't working. Well maybe you should ask santa for a nectar mattress this year. And if the big guy brings you another unicorn finger. Puppet don't worry because mattresses start at just four hundred ninety nine dollars and she gets three hundred and ninety nine dollars in accessories thrown in as well as three hundred and sixty-five night home trial and forever warranty go to nick. Sleep dot com today. This episode is supported by candy crush saga candy crush. Saga is the all time favorite match. Three game it's fun and challenging and there are thousands of levels to play through celebrate thanksgiving with candy crush saga with three new missions and in game challenges available starting monday november twenty third lasting until november twenty ninth and remember the more missions you complete the greater the rewards like color bombs and lollipop hammers play candy crush saga now and celebrate your thanksgiving with them. Download from the app store. Google play or window store terms and conditions apply one of the first people to be notified about the high air pollution. Readings in new york is a man named austin heller. He's the city commissioner of control and he has to decide whether to declare a smog alert. There is a such threshold that people look at very closely but is the decision that is taken cautiously shutting down. A city is no small measure. Plus it's thanksgiving the macy's day. Parade is a national spectacle. People are expecting the show to go on the added complication. The mayor of new city is not in town east vacationing in bermuda. So he's far away and second generation is offering this big decision. Heller talks to the deputy mayor various medical experts and scientists and decides. The levels are just low enough that the parade can go on as scheduled. They do take some precautions. Color spends wednesday on the phone with con edison. The city's fewer provider and get them to switch temporarily from fuel oil to cleaner natural gas. All the city owned garbage incinerators get turned off garbage. Incineration is a huge source of pollution. But still new yorkers are starting to notice that something is off it becomes a bodily phenomena people can actually feel they breathe it whenever they go outside even breathe it in their own homes the air dirty to watch my elven today. They never think they claim and how cold after an optical on thanksgiving day a million parade goers plus dancers and to the players and people holding the strings of giant superman balloons. They all come out for the macy's day parade and as the day goes by the air. Quality gets worse that night. Commissioner heller calls inspectors away from their thanksgiving dinners to go around the city and tried to crack down on any pollution violations and around one. Am the city finally issues. A smog alert. Nothing every episode. It's a warning that issued rebound kosher switch off garbage incinerators. Some hospitals are reporting increased numbers of patients coming in with asthma and other lung problems. Doctors tell people not to wear their contact lenses outside. An allergist says that kids under two should stay at home. The new york times reports on a site that in the age of coronavirus is totally commonplace. But in that woman it was novel. A woman was walking through midtown manhattan in a surgical mask on saturday. Finally the weather changes this cold front coming that ends this up normal inversion layer and finding the air can disperse in the end. A task force calculates that the death toll from the smog was one hundred sixty eight people so not nearly as high as the london smog. Or as deadly per. Capita as the nora smog. But this happens in a major. Us city during a major holiday it gets a ton of press coverage and by this point nine hundred sixty six. The dangers of air pollution are better understood. So it's becoming clear to the public that the current approach to pollution just isn't working much city every state finding its own system and often under the control off paul industries in new york. There's pretty quick action. at the city. Level they strengthen the pollution guidelines in the city administrative that lab in harlem gets an upgrade and the city announces that they plan to open thirty six more locations to monitor air quality. They buy fancy new computer system. So that all those labs can communicate with each other but it's still just local. You need tougher action. You need action. That targets at our region or the entire nation president lyndon johnson is also under pressure. He sends a message to congress in which he talks at length about the new york smog of nineteen sixty six. He says the country needs legislative action and nineteen sixty seven. He gets it. He signs the clean air act into law but it ends up not being bad. Effective regulation is still left up to the states and some of them. Don't do all that much a few years later. And a supreme court decision chief justice rehnquist calls state response to the law quote disappointing but in one thousand nine hundred seventy under the nixon administration. A new version of the clean air act passes and eat moves pollution protections more fully under the control of the federal government. So it's a shift from a patchwork of local and state regulations to us. Let's say halfway uniform. National approach to boost problems the environmental protection agency. The epa is founded in december of the same year among other things it helps implement the requirements of the clean air act and finally almost seventy years after the term was coined across the pond. Smog in the us starts to significantly decrease. There are a lot of things that led to this big moment of environmental action in nineteen seventy but one of them is this flashpoint in nineteen sixty six when smog was so visible and deadly a lot of people. Watch the macy's day parade on tv. A lot more people read about it and that helped spur action or do you realize what catches the public imagination to ease is asked the acute showed something you can see something you can respond directly and something that you can quantify in precise number something that is very important to the soul of modern people doctor. You could have reminded us over and over the story. That one big disaster spurs one big law. That fixes everything. That just isn't right. After nineteen seventy there are still lots of court bottles and wrangling back and forth over these regulations scientific progress please a big role in bringing air pollution down and that takes time and the regulation that we've been talking about is mostly in the. Us there are other cities around the world. That continue to have major smog. Problems up to the present day solutions. Just don't come all at once. There's always this kind of consoling narrative that comes into place with each disaster. Now we will learn from this disaster notes more disasters or any more like it opens political correctness for some time. But the moment passes swell sooner than you wish. We are forgetful people when it comes to the disastrous and we be wary about these kind of smooth narrative. There is no silver bullet for any of these pollution province anymore. Thanks for listening to history this week for moments throughout history that are also worth watching. Check your local tv listings to find out. What's on the history channel today and for history anytime anywhere sign up for a seven-day free trial of history vault where you can stream over two thousand award. Winning documentaries and series from your favorite ice with new videos added every week start your free trial visit. History vault dot com forward slash podcast. Today this episode was produced by mckanie. Lynn history this week is also produced by julia mcgruder bendix teen and meet sally helm ar- editor and sound designer is dan rizzo and our researcher. Is emma fredericks are executive producers are jesse cats and ted butler. Don't forget to subscribe rate and review history this week. Where ever you get your podcasts and we will see you next week looking for a new podcast to listen to. Here's what we love. Courtesy of a-cash recommends pay their. This is pete lang stanton and the audio team at vice news. And i want to tell you about a new podcast that we've been working on. It's called source material from vice news. This show is trying something. A little different from other news podcasts. Instead of having a host or reporter tell you the story source material presents global stories through the recordings of the who were there on the ground filling our team vice news for this show. We're just trying to get out of the way and let you experience the primary sources for yourself checkout source material now on apple podcasts cash.

london new york city macy sally helm thirty dollars Mckay three quarter smoke abatement society harlem three decades la new york nina simone us federal medical authority professor frank Deborah davis mamie manhattan Us senate committee on public
Donkey Of The Day: Man Accused Of Domestic Violence Caught On Zoom Hearing In Same House As Alleged Victim

Donkey of the Day

08:16 min | 6 months ago

Donkey Of The Day: Man Accused Of Domestic Violence Caught On Zoom Hearing In Same House As Alleged Victim

"When you place a wager with william hill sportsbook every moment becomes even more interesting and we have a special twenty twenty one offer to help you bet all your favorite sports risk free download the williamsville mobile app. And when you sign up you can get started with a risk. Free bed of up to two thousand and twenty one dollars. Use promo code. Pod must be president michigan twenty one plus only terms and conditions. Apply gambling problem. Call the michigan department of health and human services gambling disorder helpline at one eight hundred seven zero seven one seventeen. Let's make it interesting. With william hill. Sportsbook club pitches. Twenty-three years but donkey of the bay is a new way. Yes docu today. For thursday march eleven goes to a michigan man named kobe james harris. Kobe is twenty one years old. And if i had to guess i would say he identifies as a floridian. I'm sorry florida. I certain story than i think to myself. That person is transplant. radio okay. kobe. James harris is indeed one of those people now. Kobe faces an assault charge stemming from february ninth argument with his girlfriend. Whose name is lindsey. Okay both harrison lindsay were attending a livestream court. Hearing by the way everything is not zoom in court court. Hearings are absolutely one of those things. Okay i'll be damned if a judge and jury decide my fate via wi fi f. That okay lawyers. How y'all going along with this fly every riding the georgia texas and florida to do in person court hearing. Please don't try me. What you broad man. I am begging you. Kobe's hearing was screamed on the judge's courtroom youtube channel. That don't even sound right. I'm not making this up. Justice got youtube channels. Now my electron is something about that. Just doesn't feel right anyway. Kobe harris was out on bond and one of his bond conditions that he could have no contact with his girlfriend lindsay. Her name is mary lindsay. Actually but no contac- okay not any night at all to no extent when as i told y'all yesterday and when i've been telling y'all on all my platforms for long time people don't know the difference between right and wrong. They don't know the difference between legal and illegal they don't know the difference between yes and no. So this is what happened. Let's go to wd nbc four for the report. Police yes will. This young man had a no contact order and he was supposed to stay away from the woman but it had to be court of all places that they found. He was doing the exact opposite. Kobe harris of sturgess out on bond and in a virtual court hearing with this girlfriend were not showing her face because she could be a victim of abuse but at some point she starts to hesitate when being questioned by the assistant district attorney assistant. Da deborah davis notices. She's constantly looking off screen and speaks up. It was just that we weren't. I mean has it. I wasn't gonna come back the apartment though he was there and so then that kind of initially just said started argument. You're on. I have reason to believe that. The defendant is in the same apartment as the complaining witness right now and i'm extremely scared for her safety judge. Jeffrey middleton than asked for harris's location in which is given a fake address. I want you to walk out the front of the house shortly house number. I think this phone has the charged gladys from at like two percent now after a few more excuses the assistant. Da suddenly has some news. Is apartment right now. Knocking on the door. Don't want no contract. I asked debbie drives. I'm sorry alive you. You can see the clear frustration coming from the assistant. Da and judge middleton immediately shuts harris down. Paris is already facing ten years and He was also taken right back into custody. Kobe kobe kobe black mamba. You're not you're on bond for an assault charge against your girlfriend your in court via zoom for that assault. You have a no contact order in place so you're not supposed to be around her. And where did you decide to do. Your zoom court hearing from again her house flip. Play it again dramas. Because sometimes. I don't believe that i'll be talking modestly. Everything i yes well. This young man had a no contact order and he was supposed to stay away from the woman but it had to be court of all places that they found out. He was doing the exact opposite. I'm exhausted man. I'm telling you haven't figured it out yet. But his virtual world we live in is making everything one long episode of black mirror in his something happening to everyone's brains especially if you are to logged in all time that is keeping us in this perpetual state of stupidity stupidity. Okay there are people. I know who are very smart but they ended up signing dumb because there aren't tapping into the natural common sense in logic that exists within all. I'm telling you people wake up every day. And they connected these virtual worlds and allowing these virtual worlds thing for us allowing these virtual worlds shape their ideas and feelings. It's causing the. Kobe harasses of the world to make those kind of decisions. Basically what i'm saying is if you take kobe harrison brain and put it in a bird. The bird fly backwards. Okay the world just doesn't make sense anymore. I'm old school. So i come from an era where we actually tried to get away with cramps. Okay this is committing crimes and then sending their measurements into the police to get sized. their jail suits okay. They got their wrist. Like can you cover me now now. Kobe is facing charges of assault with intent to create bodily harm that carries ten years. But since he's an obituary offender he faces in an enhanced sentence of up to fifteen years in prison and it's not immediately clear what additional charges he will face following this court hearing. That's exactly why i'm not doing guess. What race it is because clearly you know what is if they don't even know if they're going to give him with digital charges for violating The conditions of his bond. Please let ramal give kobe harris. Two biggest he You stupid dumb. I'm going to play a game. You know exactly what game this is. You know it's coming. You know what. Race kobe harris says. I had to get a restraining order once and against my ex-boyfriend and i remember. He tied a commie before we were going to court as do we wanna go to wanna go together restraining order against you and then when i got there he kept trying to sit next to me and i moved and they actually had to make him wait out in the hallway for us because he was harassing me even before we went before the judge where he was trying to look. Y'all didn't have any problems for the judge would be go easy on him. That's backfired judges like permanent turn. Have you seen him sister. One time like on the street randomly. But as i say my name and i was walking with someone. They will like that guy's calling. You don't know who you didn't put no money. No dog you. Today is brought to you by the office of michael s lamb and solve. Don't be a doggy. Dial pound two fifty on your cell and saito bull if you've been hurt in a construction accident that's pound two five ot from your cell and say the bowl what's up african king of comedy michael blassie here to schist exclusive information about my must. Listen new podcast modest. A podcast with michael blacks. We cannot forget my co host. This chinese best friend. Thanks mike this right. Chinese best friend along with me is gonna be up to chain. You don't wanna miss. it can find. Michael blacks the iheartradio app on apple podcast.

Kobe harris Kobe william hill michigan department of health Sportsbook club kobe james harris harrison lindsay mary lindsay Da deborah davis michigan Jeffrey middleton James harris youtube judge middleton florida Kobe kobe kobe harris Da kobe harris
Lon Davis -202

On Mic Podcast

36:16 min | 4 months ago

Lon Davis -202

"Welcome to on. Mike with jordan rich. Great to have you aboard certainly people of a certain age but film comedy fans. Of course know the names ma and pa kettle a series of highly successful. Be pictures featuring an unlikely married couple. The kettles and their slew of kids living in the backwoods well one husband and wife team have made the definitive study of the ma and pa kettle phenomenon. They are lawn and deborah davis and they present their book montauk kettle on film in. It's loads of fun. So lovers of film gets it to learn and laugh with me as i welcome. Half of the dynamic writing duo. Here's lawn davis joining us on mike. Let's focus on ma and pa kettle. I was amazed first of all at the success. I didn't know they did that many films. But before we get there. I gotta tell you. There's a little diner. I don't know if it's still around but it was part of my youth and i used to drive by it all the time. I don't think i ever attended it near boston. Not far call the egg. And i i. I never put two and two together until i read your book. Tell us about the egg. And i the book. First of all the agin. I came out in one thousand nine hundred forty five. It was written by a wonderful writer named betty macdonald and she was someone who had lived the experiences that she wrote about. She had been on a chicken farm with her. First husband. bob heskitt nine hundred thirty and this is just before the depression and she had a very rough rough go was in the pacific northwest in seattle near seattle washington and she was absolutely miserable. She hated the climate of washington with a constant rain and wind cold and she was more or less an unpaid hand. You know farmhand and she was worked almost to death by this husband hers. Who wasn't a good guy. He became an alcoholic that their loved to make more shine and this of course resulted in some bad behavior on his part. He was abusive to her and even though they have two children after two years of marriage and enjoying this she decided to leave him and years later she was known for her funny stories about living on this chicken farm. I guess it was such a bad experience that she had to find the humor. That in order to process it and people would just sit there and laugh and say you know Betty you've got to put this in the book. And so many people say that so many people intend to do it but she actually sat down at her kitchen table In wrote in longhand this entire book and it came out very beautifully and she says it in and it was published by the press in nineteen forty five and became an instant bestseller selling over a million copies and nineteen forty five. That's amazing and not there long. After of course comes the movie naturally and this is where we start to the with the kettles. You've got claudette. Colbert and fred macmurray and ferber murray's playing the husband a nicer version of the husband and i might add so and the movie lawn is a hit. I take it. The movie is is huge impact. It's bigger than the book had universal appeal and it opened in nineteen forty seven and it had of course it introduced the characters of montauk kettle a farm couple who were based on actual neighbors that that Bette and bob head than they were living in in in the chicken farm. The family of mother and father that known lawn. Pa bishop at thirteen kid and their place was a mess. And the personalities were of course exaggerated to become law pot kettle in the book the portrayals of those characters in the movie were vastly more empathetic and pleasant than. Let's say the characters in the original book i wasn't taking it all with their characters and i don't know if you would be either especially when you come to know lawn. Cattle as embodied by bodry name and percy kilbride. There's something special about those two air lovable characters and the actors were so incredibly good that they really breathed life into these two characters. Not caricatures if i may emphasize but real characters people that you would wouldn't audience with watch some big thing. I can imagine being a neighbor to those people. I would love to know them. They're very welcoming their dell. Help you out if if in any way that they can. They're always looking out after other people and they're good really good people and of course the fact that they're funny Made audience to sit up and take notice so much so that montauk kendall sort of ran. Claudette colbert and fred. Macmurray off the screen People thought there okay. But i really love to kettles whenever they would come on the screen audiences would sit up a little bit straighter and have a big smile on their face. And this is what i wanna see. Cattles were only in. I think twenty one minutes of this two hour film and it was. It made such an impact that people would continually return to the theater to seize this film just for those characters. Let's examine now. What happens after the film. The agonize a hit and these are the two breakout characters that everybody wants to see more of who takes it to the next step and comes up with the movie for them alone. Who was that. That was leonard goldstein. And he was a very Thoughtful producer by that. I mean he was very much invested in his projects. He was a person of great enthusiasm and he had a passion for the characters von kettle and it was he who would go to these previews of the and observed the audience and it was his observations that i to earlier about sending up straighter and laughing so much when they were on and he took note of this me the top this would make a great series of the films and he became the producer and the actors liked him very much. And in fact percy thought he was indispensable to the series which was unfortunately he died Quite young and in the midst of the of the series and it was taken over by other producers but that was definitely his baby. It's fascinating to think movies like that would not only be popular but would make so much money the b. movies. I think you said the first independent film made over two million bucks. Which is huge in those days. Isn't it like oh well you have to multiply everything by ten and If you want an idea of how would you like a movie that grows twenty million dollars that would be substantial and two million. It was unheard of for a film that cost just three hundred thousand nine so universal the executives were over the moon with the idea that they can crank out these pictures quickly with these experience stars who frankly were underpaid and in fact marjorie main was a contract player for mgm and she was for the entire time. The series was being made and she was hired by mgm. As a. it's the contract player. She would be whatever films She was told to be in. Like maybe say louis. Harvey girls and Summer stock and a lot of wonderful musicals and straight comedies as well and after doing this for a long time and she was novice star. She was a dependable character. Actors people recognized or they liked her. I'm sure a lot of people didn't even know our name. They just thought awhile like this actress. And when she was given the script for the egg she took it and she was paid the same amount that she was getting as a contract player at mgm. That was the only that was the only salary she receives. She wasn't paid by universal. She was they had worked out a deal alone out and she never received a raise. She'd never got a bonus in spite of the fact that without her and there wouldn't have been a series in addition she was so good in part and so prepared when she took it that she won. She received kademi award nomination for best supporting actress. This of course probably doesn't sit well with planet kobe either. But who would think that mark kennel which you know be nominated for an academy award. That's good she i. It's interesting when you talk about the studio system. People don't know what we're talking about if they're only concern with the two thousand current day hollywood but differ. Oh my goodness in the moguls really controlled everything and they could loan you out. In a lot of the stars. People thought were making huge money. They weren't let's talk about marjorie main because she's the central figure mock kettle. And we'll talk about percy Interesting background married. At a young age husband dies. He's an older man dies early and then she's never with anyone again. Apparently or pretty much. There has been speculation as to her Private life that. I didn't Delve into the book but She said she had a The female partner for a good deal of her life. I don't know whether that's true But the i do know. She was married to a man who was a very well known lecturer Medical person doctor and he would go around making speeches. That was his primary job and marjorie was so dedicated to this gentleman that she stopped her acting career. And it was going well on broadway and She i'm going to book his appearances. I'll be secretaries-general. Totem and she eventually got tired of it. She thought. I didn't think i'd be running this whole show and it got to other nerves and basically they separated. They stayed married but they. They didn't live together for many years of their of their relationship. In nineteen thirty five this man who was much older than she contracted cancer and marjorie nursed him Through through that disease until his passing. untie untimely passing and according to many sources. She was devastated including my hero award. She she said it was. Losing a member of my family and marjorie didn't have much family. She had no brothers and sisters. She had very she. Cheap is a lonely individual and this is her only marriage and she kept him around some speak for years afterward she would speak to him in the presence of other people. Tell the story about on the set. What would happen she would. She would be standing there and Right in the middle of a scene she would look up and say yes. Darling yes i understand. Thank you very good. And then the director said marjorie. Who what are you talking about. What are you doing. You know cut essentially. Oh i'm just talking to my husband. He gave me some advice. And she wasn't kidding Maybe she was delusional. Abc was spiritual. I don't know i mean. She believed that he was with her. She would go into the commissary and she would order. You know like a sandwich for herself and get some egg salad for you know for him. You know and you'd say to the waitresses aren't you consejo. Say on my husband. No my husband like goodness people looked at her like she had two heads. And yet as you point out she she was the ultimate professional on the set them. She knew her lines. She knew her blocking. She knew what was happening. Every step of the way. Didn't she every step. She was closely trained shakespearean actor and she took that experience to films and even though she was playing a backwoods kind of character she brought so much depth to it and so much believability people think well small cattle. No it's a march remained as a plexus individual quite intelligent very disciplined eccentric as all get out and that is a strange thing. She had other Unusual quirks as well because she never. You never took off day. Even when she was very ill and she was plagued with things like a ladder condition and sinus infection that were chronic and she was there every day no matter what and her lines you everybody else's lines. She was not particularly warm with their co stars. When they would call cut she'd go straight to Trailer and there. She stay until somebody came and got her for the next next shot. And that's the way she was. She was very much an introvert. In those days. You had a lot of. You had a lot of character actors and actresses who looked old before their time. I mean marjorie. Main always appears to be matronly or middle aged. The others in that list would include I don't know marie dressler and Beulah bondi and maybe margaret dumont that kind of person and they were perfect for the roles wherever they played marjorie. One of the best. No question exactly. I couldn't agree with you. More people isn't all that young though. I mean she was born in eighteen ninety so when she first When she was offered the egg she was about Fifty six i and to issue stayed with the series until she fifty seven. She's certainly looked every bit her age. And then some fifteen children will do that to you. My friend it would. That's the other thing that was really strange. That marjorie aged exponentially Through those years of course from one thousand nine hundred forty seven nineteen fifty six but she was they would still have in the films. And i don't understand this little children in the family. Which was this elderly woman and given birth like a mere six years earlier and that's kind of stretching credit quick credibility. I think but. I guess they found i. I would if i had been scripting. I would've had the kids grow up and be a regular age but apparently they wanted that element of you know. Kind of rowdy kids coming screaming into the house when she called. Come and get it. You know i think that it was. It was unbelievable but it was. It was a formula that worked and want something works in hollywood. He repeated until it's they'll dry. we're talking with. John davis he and his wife. Deborah have written mime pa kettle on film. And it's really Really a treat. Because if you love old movies and hollywood of yesteryear and personalities like the kind we're talking about this is a book few percy kilbride is pot. Kettle reminds me of stan laurel in many respects. But tell me. A little bit about percy kilbride was he would kind of an actor was he prior to the pot kettle series. All kettle percy kilbride. I should say another product of the stage. He started when he was extremely young. He was working As a ticket taker or as an usher in a theatre in his hometown of san francisco when he was eleven years old and very early on he was accepted into a company and he appeared on stage in hundreds of different roles because of his versatility and because of the funds that he felt acting was. That's creating a fresh character. He was very discontented being typecast as kettle and playing the same laconic character over and over again. It did not appeal to him as an actor. Problem was of course. He was so associated with those films and that character that he was an offer any other parts either on stage or another movie he would make basically that one film of the year and sit around and wait for the next one and he was discontent terribly He just he was very intelligent guy. And you're right about the stan laurel similarity. Although i don't think i've ever put that together. He's been faced. He's got the derby and he's very passing seeming and all trades the dentals character versus though was unlike bartram main in that he was extremely sociable on set he loved people look to talk with people he was not a married man had been and he had basically spent his life going from one part to another and he was very very respected and even love by the actors who were fortunate enough to work with them. And i've spoken to a number of the individuals who played on all kettle kids and they all said the same thing they all said. Marge remains aloof and percy kilbride. Was that the light and that is nice to know. But it's also sudden. Nice to me. I think is the fact that they so often you hear about you know actors who are paired together. People like Marie dressler and wallace berry or john. Bunny in florida fence. You're really going back. These people tested of each other absolute tested. Each other march remained in percy kilbride. Had the incident respect for the other's abilities and professionalism and they need that known press all the time they really were not close. They'd never socialized off camera. They never saw each off camera. And after percy be tired it never got together again. however his memory Stayed with her and she was devastated when when he would he died in a tragic way he did in nineteen sixty four and she always folks glowingly of them very touchy jump in and ask you about wallace berry because you mentioned him not getting along with marie dressler. He had trouble with marjorie or marjory with him. Sounds like he was a rather irascible difficult. Chap am i right. He was a dreadful individual. Frankly he was a marvelous actor or he would never have been tolerated. Those who worked for them have horror stories. He was a very abusive man particularly to women although he was abusive zone wage man. I remember reading an interview with robert young and he said that making a film. This him humiliating you. You remember the film the champ of course with jackie. Jackie cooper right right. Yeah jackie cooper was doing the scene and of course you know he was supposed to be just in love with this old. You know new irascible man like you said it was lovable and he would be you know holding onto him and crying and stuff. I mean it was a very pretty sappy movie. I thought but when this when the director would call cut. And if jackie cooper had his arms around or something long period which is pushing them off get off the kid you know. That's the kind of man and You know and marjorie. Just re i mean. She was such a a an agreeable presence with her co stars. But he wouldn't cooperate with her. He wouldn't rehearse in such a way that he was no his line. Well he learn the basic. That's behind the lines and then atlit marjorie and the other hand being classically trained you every single word of the dialogue. And she's stuck to it and so her timing which was extraordinary was thrown off because she didn't know when to jump in with wallace berry and she made so many films seven films. M about as many as she made with percy kilbride. Interestingly enough and they did have a great rapport on screen. Erie in maine and She did big films and they were very popular with the public. And but still she. She just had nothing good to say about him and it was a real career. Low life you might say to have worked with him so much. Mgm let me ask you. Then about percy retiring. We know that he didn't finish the series. And they had to pull a darren stevens replacement kind of thing and they replaced pa kettle in the film the kettles on old macdonald's farm nine hundred fifty seven with an actor by the name of parker parker fennelly now that name means very little to most people except for those old enough to remember the pepperidge farm commercials right because he was the pepperidge farm guy because pepper remember with this new england accent. Pepperidge farm remembers he. He's cast in the role and it's so tougher an actor to play another actor's role you know even batman is. It's difficult to buy different guys doing that. But that that that'd be a challenge for him. He did a decent job. But there was no replacing. Percy in that role that's it he was actually a a an ideal toy He was probably close to persecute bride as a character could be Both with the even though i was from california and Parker fennelly was from england and they both spoke with a new england accent on the enough and he looked the part. He did the best he could. He was a man with comic chops there so question because he had been on the radio for years. You will certainly remember For having heard or seen or read about allen's alley which was a routine that gerrad alad would you every week on his show where he'd be visit these various eccentric individuals representing different ethnicities and titus moody. Was the character played by parker. Fennelly was a like an old codger. Basically who's totally out of touch with thing. So when they were looking for a replacement for kilbride they thought of him and there was just in spite of marjorie main. Being the actress she was and parker penalty. Being the professional he was. There is just no report between them and it didn't seem believable. And sometimes you can replace an accurate apart like darren you mentioned and other times it just as impossible. There's nothing like the original. And there was another film made of course in nineteen fifty six called the kettles in the ozarks and dabbling the male lead was played by arthur hunnicutt who was portraying kettles rather set and that didn't work either but if if either had caught on marjorie main but have been willing to continue making those films indefinitely because she loved to act knows of was a gig that that she became famous for worldwide. And like as you point out. The film started to die out in popularity in terms of numbers but they were popular for a long time. I all wanted to mention the children. And there are a couple of names that popped out Actors young in their careers including richard. Long who went onto what the big valley and also and also the nanny and our professor. I loved him and also an actress that you have to be a real gig for this when sherry jackson who played one of the sexiest androids on star trek one point. I've got a friend dividing berry. Who is still in love with that woman. Ever since he saw her step out of the shower around the wild wild west nineteen sixty seven. Oh she is and gorgeous. Absolutely gorgeous gorgeous. I got a chance to interview her for the book and she was very like. How did you get this number. And everything and i said well i got it from a friend of mine. Who found you in this way. And i thought she was going to hang up but instead she stayed on the phone with me and she told me a story about marjorie main that did not reflect too well on the actress. But this you know we know that marjorie was germophobic. She was terrified of the idea of getting sick. And she was practicing social distancing and wearing face masks the what not. You know fifty sixty years before colbert. And that was the way she just perceived life she was just terrified in one point and starring a bunch of kids on set in a closed studio with on circulating. Air made her very nervous. Because she said you never know what these kids are carrying. They can get me ill so she would try to keep her distance but naturally while they're filming scenes she'd be all over them she'd be having her arm around the move whatever and she was doing one same with this little boy when playing one of her kids little boy sneezed on her and she turns the records. That kids out you know and he is your enough. He was assured off the set fired. And i remember in. Cherry jackson was appalled by that She doesn't really remember those films too. Well she was really cute girl but my god. She was gorgeous adult. I had never heard of her and chill. I researched book. And i'd like to send my friend was on. It's like to see why in the nineteen sixties. She was smoking hot as any woman on network. Tv of course in the book to fully close out. There are some wonderful character that you note appeared in various films guys like russell johnson the professor of course on gilligan and ray collins shows up of lieutenant trask. I believe from perry you track track track. Of course right right. And i i got a kick out of seeing all these names and photos and collins. I mean talk about a man true ordinary experience. I mean he was part of mercury Players for orson welles. He was in cane. He was in a lot of films and he always was brilliant. And he was a first rate actor. Orson welles attack called in the best actor. He had ever known more with and i. I don't know. I mean. I wouldn't necessarily know or go that far but then i didn't work with the man. If i had probably share that opinion he was wonderful playing The in one of the in laws of mon- pau and their daughter married the character played by richard long and they were a very snooty upper-class couple and i extremely put off by montauk kettle but they eventually came to love them and they showed that evolution you might say in the series over a period of time and it was a very insidious he would like a formula of always thinking. All of these people are such. You know such a nightmare. They really really liked them and they look out for them. They were protective of them. And one of the best films in the series. I think is vol catalan vacation. Where the four of them go to paris. And it's it's a wonderfully funny movie. I wanted to just close with us i. It seems though to me that american audiences at that point right after the war. They were hungry and thirsty for fun. And and they also wanted to feel comfort with the characters and something special about backwoods rural characters that we all either know or think we know. That's very very american. And i'm thinking of You know henry fonda in Grapes wrath grapes of wrath I'm thinking of the waltons for crying out loud. It seems it seems as though that is always going to hit a very popular chord with american audience manner with there's a basic decency ascribed to these characters and it's something that people want to believe of their fellow man that there are people that could be trusted. They're people who would do anything for them. That they could would would take care of them when they were sick. Or whatever i mean. It's what we all need. We all wanna be reassured and comforted by another source and that is something that they cut across very very well. A lot of some of the films have their slapstick scenes and stuff but there are always these moments where you could tell that these people are real people and and i think that the whole rustic thing or backwards thing heading down to the essence of of human nature and i really believe that need for escapism particularly after something as traumatic as four years of war and all of the terrible tragedies that took place and all the loss that people experience then to have these films come around and they aren't military based they aren't since pictures did not hitting anything overhead. They're just funny and light and q. And there's a reason why all these years later the films so timeless and the people can watch them again and again like you and i when we were young watching them on tv it was it was indescribable. How pleasant those films were they were. They were absolutely mind candy. And yet i think you say so well in the book and you just said it now you can tell the characters had decency and warmth and and they cared for each other and one more aspect. I think that is true of a lot of comedy. In the era talking about post depression it was nice to stick it to the city slicker. It was always nice to outwit the because the dimwit says they were referred to usually outwit the the rich pompous. You know wise guys who thought they knew it all. I love that book. And i think there's a juvenile appeal There are two that. I've never really put together. But why would kids you know like i was. I was raised in the suburbs. I knew nothing about farms and you know in tons of kids in a family and all that kind of that was all foreign. But there is something that kids can relate to just like you relate to abbott and costello Meeting frankenstein and dracula. You know think. I'd be terrified to maybe not terrified this guy. They feel a little bit superior. And i think the kids often feel very at least i know i did felt very oppressed and the idea of like winning over thirty figure was inherently desirable and they embodied that kind of fish out of water behavior perfectly. The book is called mind. Pa kettle on film All new funnier than ever. I love that by lawn. Our guest and his lovely wife. Deborah davis And it's really a movie lovers treasure trove of Character actors and storylines and how movies good made and And really bygone era. That's nice to reminisce about the lawn. I can't thank enough for joining us and we'll definitely do this again. Because you're a man of many subjects. I want to delve into all jordan. Nothing would make me happier. I enjoyed being on your show. And i hope to be on it again. Repeatedly poland davis. You will indeed be back soon. With another deep dive. This time into the highly intellectual stimulating story of that triad that changed the world. The three stooges stay tuned for that. Thanks as always to. Dan a fast which media. Ken carberry and our team at chart productions in boston and of course thanks to all of my listeners and new ones joining us all the time for subscribing downloading rating and reviewing the podcast. We're now hurt in close to a hundred countries and just about every in the union that is if wyoming has finally come around so as always we close by saying be well so you can do good take care.

percy kilbride marjorie marie dressler wallace berry Mgm percy jordan rich deborah davis betty macdonald bob heskitt ferber murray jackie cooper montauk kendall Cattles leonard goldstein marjorie main Harvey girls kademi mark kennel
#222: 7 Ways to Protect Your Brain from Harmful Electromagnetic Radiation (Especially at Night!)

Broken Brain with Dhru Purohit

1:13:56 hr | 3 months ago

#222: 7 Ways to Protect Your Brain from Harmful Electromagnetic Radiation (Especially at Night!)

"A podcast droop. Routier your host. Thanks for joining back in. Got a special episode for you today. On the podcast. Seven ways to protect your brain from electromagnetic radiation especially at night. Today's episode is a preview. It's a preview of a newsletter that. I'm launching shout to my co writer in this newsletter taylor and this is called the try this newsletter. It's a weekly protocol every week. I'll send you a protocol something that you can try firsthand yourself. often free. No cost or low cost tips to help you radically improved a particular part of your health. Today we're talking about reducing your exposure from electromagnetic radiation and why it's so important but some of the other newsletters are about how to eat a better meal. That improves your metabolic health for breakfast. What is a balanced blood. Sugar meal look like for breakfast. Or what is my step by step. Sleep protocol looked. Like if you want sign up for this newsletter that's gonna be free and it's gonna be coming out soon within the next few weeks. Just click on the first link in the show notes or go to my personal website. Drew perot it dot com slash newsletter. That's d. h. R. u. p. u. r. h. t. dot com drew pro dot com and then click on the newsletter tab to sign up. Alright let's jump in seven simple ways to protect your brain from electro-magnetic radiation and electro magnetic frequencies especially at night now before we jump in. Let's talk a little big picture. So if you dig a little bit you dig just a little bit. It's not hard to find the growing and emerging concern around yelm fs. There's a great summary if you're new to this. And or maybe you've heard that electromagnetic frequencies from cellphones dirty. Electricity is really nothing to worry about. If if you want a review of the science sets out there the environmental health trust website and dr deborah davis. One of the founders. I the link in the show notes. There's a great summary of the data that's out there and the emerging science. But i'll summarize a lot of here in today's episode. Let's talk about a big picture. Emf's from cell phones and dirty trinity. Again we'll break that down a little bit more later on the eve been in the scientific literature. Globally have been linked with leukemia. Brain cancers breast cancer irregular heart rhythms and beats childhood neuro development disorders. Low sperm count in men reproductive and developmental or matt abnormalities in in women blood glucose impacts and so much more. The growing body of research is continuing to evolve as more organizations nonprofits and government agencies around the world are starting to pay. Attention is even very mainstream institutions. There's one here based out of california called kaiser. Permanente shout kaiser. It's where my brother-in-law. Dr neil patel who is cardiologists and has done his training in functional medicine as well. He works there. And at kaiser permanente there is a researcher. Md phd is named dr deck coon lee and he has a great summary. That's also linked to in the show notes on the breakdown of some of the big picture science into space. It's only sixteen minutes by the way it's a youtube video. It's in the show notes. And if you wanna watch something that digs into the specific literature case study after case study but experiments. They've actually done research. They've done actor kaiser's division of research. Which is where. Dr deke works. You can find some fascinating topics especially in the category of studies that he's done on. Emf exposure during pregnancy. And how that can impact babies so naturally the more you start digging into this area and you go down the rabbit hole and you look into the work that these trained scientists and medical doctors are doing the scarier. It can all seem but that's not the goal is podcast. This podcast is not trying to scare you. I'm not trying to scare you. I'm definitely not trying to scare me. The goal is to leave you feeling that. At least there are few big picture things that you can do today tonight when you go to sleep to dramatically reduce your ems exposure and potentially improve your health also by the way we love technology. I'm recording this podcast on a laptop. I have my cell phone next to me. Not on me but next to me and we love technology. The goal isn't to rid ourselves of technology and go back backwards in our technical evolution. The goal is to protect ourselves in the interim until better technology and laws are passed that start to help society take advantage of the technologies that are out there wi fi cell phones computers all the beautiful things that we have. Those things are beautiful. They've allowed so much goodness world but we need to figure out better ways to apply that technology so that we're not harming ourselves for potentially harming ourselves now. I keep on mentioning at night. How do we protect our brain at night. Well why nighttime. Why while we sleep. Well we'll get to that shortly but first we need to cover some important background info. So let's jump in may thirty first two thousand and eleven. This was a super important date on this date. The international agency for research on cancer which is part of the world health organization officially labelled electromagnetic fields as a class to be carcinogen. Now a lot of people don't know that but it's true in fact if you go to the legal documents inside of most mobile phones but especially apple. I have an apple device. Which i love by the way. If you go into general and then about and you click on illegal you can see that most phone companies that are out there including their legal documentation that you have to agree to use a phone that there are known risks with electro-magnetic frequencies and electromagnetic radiation and that they encourage you inside of there not to keep the phone on your body. This is well known. So class to be carcinogen. What does that mean so. The conclusion of the agency international agency on research on cancer found that there is some documented risk and most likely based on the evidence that they reviewed that are most likely a carcinogen and therefore quote the organization needed to keep a close watch for a link between cell phones and cancer. This is the world health organization that is coming out. And saying this an intergovernmental inter-country committee and this was just in the field of cancer. But there's many other parts of health that people are looking at especially neuro developmental. And what they're doing at kaiser and effect to both humans and animals who are in the room or during pregnancy so as many more agencies are out there and organizations that are studying this so there is most likely a concern that. Ems are a carcinogen so they need to watch it and pay close attention to it. Now there is some evidence out there but that evidence for the organization world health organization to say conclusively that this is a carcinogen in the same way that we look at tobacco from cigarettes as a known carcinogen or or other environmental toxins. That are out there. They didn't take as harsh of a stand. Now why why is that. Why was it said to be. It's a possible carcinogen. Well there's a couple important things that we have to remember. The first thing is that we know that it can take at least seventeen years for research evidence to reach clinical practice. That was the results found in a paper published in two thousand eleven by the journal of royal society of medicine. That's exactly what they found is it can take on average seventeen years for research evidence to reach clinical practice and by the way it can take even longer when you talk about countries and health organizations around the world like the world health organization coming out with strong recommendations. And just if there's any area that you want to look at this just look at the history of tobacco. There was so much conclusive evidence showing that tobacco was a known carcinogen. Even the industry knew it but because of politics because of funding because of just the nature of how ideas get out there and the industry fighting back and doing their own studies showing that tobacco wasn't as much of a concern that there could be other concerns. That could be there. It just took time. Consensus takes time even when you have consensus in science you still have to fight against human nature and convince people and fight against propaganda. And there's a lot of propaganda when it comes to science especially when there's money involved and there's money involved when it comes to emf and radiation that were exposed through through electromagnetic frequencies There's another area. That is a modern area. Where we're seeing this also play out and how the literature and the literature president and the early scientists that are there are finding very strong data to support that in this case the example that i'm going to bring up as an anecdote is sugar. You know. I've had some of the top experts in cancer on this podcast before. We had dr jason. Fung who is notable author new york times bestseller doctor and researcher in the field of fasting diabetes. But also now got into a whole book in talking about cancer. Said dr william lee who is the founder of the angiogenesis foundation. He has a top tedtalk called how to starve cancer with and we had him on. This podcast talking all about cancer and food. And i asked dr william lee said dr william leona ask you when it comes to food and talk to us about sugar because web. Md says there's no link that sugar is related to cancer. That sugar encourages cancer growth. But yet i look at all the literature and all the papers that are coming out there and the work that you're doing so clearly feel that sugar in its specialists process. Form which is where most people are getting their highest concentrations of sugar from. They're not getting it from fruit. We don't need to demonize fruit. You know we can be mindful around but we don't need to be demonizing it. So much of that evidence around sugar and processed sugar and coke and all these things like that and processed foods showing that there is a connection between processed foods and cancer. And dr william lee who by the way has developed over a dozen drugs for cancer says that the emergent research the emergent research which is all the research that's coming out right now says yes. There is a link between sugar and cancer. Every cell in our body feeds on glucose but cancer cells in particular. Dr william louise's shared rely on glucose to fuel their metabolism so cutting sugar out is one approach that is part of a holistic cancer treatment and other experts that we've had on this podcast. Dr ralph moss. Who's a phd researcher in the field of cancer has incredible website. Moss reports dot com. When my mom was diagnosed with breast cancer. He was one of people that i had as part of her team and he has a report four hundred pages often on every major cancer. That's out there every major cancer. That's out there and he sells these reports on his website and was previously at sloan kettering. Many many many years ago we talked about in the podcast and how he was fired for questioning being at the head of the research desk there for questioning how certain cancer drugs weren't as helpful as they were claiming to be now just a little caveat note dr. Moss is not against drugs. Drugs are great and certain cancer. Drugs can be extremely beneficial. But in this case he was highlighting. How this drug wasn't as beneficial. How there was some other data that he was showing that there were some natural interventions that showed much better outcomes that are there again. This isn't drugs. Versus food like both are useful and can be used in an interesting way but ralph moss another researcher. That i mentioned was on the podcasts. At four in addition to dr william lee talking about how reducing sugar intake is one way to prevent us our risk of cancer in the future or if we have cancer. It's one way to slow down the growth if we can cut sugar down but again if you go to web. Md or if you talk to most mainstream colleges that are out there. Today they would say no. It's not proven yet. Well emerging research is a little bit art and science at science in the way that it's done it's science but it's us piecing together and it's the medical community and the people that are advocates in the space like dr li piecing together the data. That could be in the eyes of other researchers in the space slightly inefficient. Because we don't have a big double blind placebo controlled trial on sugar and cancer. Well there's a lot of problems in getting their who's gonna funded. How are we gonna come up with the money. How do you convince people sugar. So pervasive the study would be very complex. to do. doesn't mean that somebody won't do it in the future. It's just difficult so often when you hear somebody who's very mainstream saying there's no evidence there's no evidence that this is linked with this and i'm not saying that sugar causes cancer. I'm saying that sugar can. Fuel is one of the fuels. Also fat and protein can also be one of the fuels for cancer too. And that's what. Dr william lease work is with angiogenesis. Is that how do we cut off. These blood vessels that are connected to these tumors which will then slow down the growth of cancer if we can cut off their source of food and slow down angiogenesis when it comes to cancer. Maybe we can slow cancer down. That's what he's proven through his work and he talks about it extensively in his book. Eat to be disease. Check out his talk. If you haven't anyways. I digress a little bit but the reason that i'm bringing this up is that the research is out there. It's out there. Showing a connection between sugar and cancer as dr fong and dr leave talked about. We don't have the big studies that are out there that would reduce that would remove complete doubt from other people. But there's enough that you can start to piece together the mechanisms and fill in the gaps. We don't have that double blind placebo controlled trial on on cancer. These big population level studies cancern sugar. But we can show the mechanisms that glucose fuels ourselves. Cancer cells have nine times. More receptors for glucose. Angiogenesis is a major pathway of how these cells siphoned off resources and then become tumorous in the incorrect environment and so on and so on so this is all to say that us because something is not mainstream and accepted especially when it comes to. Emf doesn't mean that there isn't cause for concern. This is why in our own life. We need to be applying and setting up our rule when it comes to the precautionary principle when it comes to electro-magnetic radiation. We could greatly benefit by the precautionary principle. Now what is the precautionary principle. It's an approach to dealing with uncertainty and potential harm which is mostly known for being practiced in in europe in the european union and the precautionary principle. Basically says when there is serious cause for concern when it comes to some agent. B b that a chemical or jogger ingredient for example food. We air on the side of caution and maybe avoid it or highly discourage it to the population. Because there's enough emergent research even though the research is inconclusive. And by the way to research on m. f. is not conclusive. it's hard to do. There's a lot of different studies that are out there. The methodologies are all different in terms of how to discover ems and there's a ton of industry research that's out there so this is a very controversial area very controversial area. But within the controversy. I'm trying to highlight the basics and the basics i are the world health organization is saying is a possible probable carcinogen class to be. We need to pay attention. The research is concerning. We need more research but also we should pay attention. Pay attention means take. Precautionary action. didn't go as far to recommend that it's very political thing. The world health organization all the different countries and industries that are involved in swaying the outcomes but to extrapolate my guess is the author. Those of of that of that intercountry statement that came out would be. We should be cautious in our own life. We can apply the precautionary principle to protect ourself. One more example before we talk about how to do this when it comes to. Emf we did an interview with dr mark. Mehanna who's a dentist based in the bay area and we covered the research around floride and how floride is extremely controversial comes to its purported per per per it's presumed benefits it's presumed benefits when it comes to protecting our teeth and there's emerging data in the space of floride just like just like sugar in cancer that there is cause for concern in primarily. We went through all the data and some big studies. That were out there that we're looking at. I q points. I q points in babies and one of the studies out of out of canada and i believe it was a province an ontario in the province of ontario. They picked a few different towns. One town that had fluorinated its population. Another town that didn't have florida. Florida watt water fluoridated water being provided to its citizens and one thing that they found inside of there which was controversial study in jama it was super controversial led to a lot of letters to the editor that came in one thing that they found is that in the population set of babies young boys and young girls who by the way didn't have even teeth yet or their teeth. Were just starting to come in. So they didn't need florida in the first place. They found a lower. I q score for babies in the towns that had fluoridated water versus the towns. That didn't and i'll linked to episode in the study so that you can go check it out for yourself but basically the conclusion of that all these people up in arms but the researchers saying that one thing to take away even if you think that floor floride is helpful for people's teeth is that babies don't have teeth. So let's err on the side of caution if we don't know let's avoid giving babies floor dated water if you're gonna use formula to make to make if you're gonna use water to make formula and feed it to a baby maybe filter the water take the fluoride out. Because they don't even need it in the first place. That's an example of how the precautionary principle is that play instead of waiting for all the perfect evidence to definitively come in when there is enough evidence to show cause for concern. We take action early. Here's a great historical example from an article by elizabeth grossman published at the university of minnesota's institute of the environment. Lincoln the notes. So you can check it out quote. The use of lead based interior paints was banned in much of europe including france belgium and street in nineteen o nine and the rest of europe after france. Belgium and australia followed suit before the nineteen forties. It took the us until nine thousand nine hundred seventy eight many decades later to make this move. Even though health experts had for decades recognize the potentially acute even deadly an irreversible hazards of lead exposure. Just because there's emerging research even sometimes strong research and area doesn't mean the government or organizations or the fda or even the world health organization is going to take action. We need to protect ourself. Another example about the precautionary principle most famously in europe in the case of certain flavors and food is like red dye number forty yellow dye number five companies were discouraged from using them because the growing evidence around their links to adhd tumor growth and even poor immune function want to buy a product in europe. That has red dye forty. Well it's banned for infants. First of all and for everyone else. It comes with a warning. That's the precautionary principle in action. There's enough evidence that we pay attention to that. We're looking at to cause concern now. I'm not going to go into the global politics the national politics of the precautionary principle at a governmental agency level right. I'm talking about examples of where they got right. But regulation when it's done right can be great but there's also component that it goes when it goes too far can cause challenges and so that's not a debate for that you know when regulation goes too far can stifle innovation and access and other stuff. We need to be smart about it. But here's the point in takeaway for you on an individual and family level for you for me for your family for my family. Who were in charge of. We want to protect. We can radically improve our lives and especially our health if we do our own research and create our own precautionary principals in our own life now before we get to that and how to do that in your life with seven practical takeaways on emf and protecting your brain. Let's do a basic overview of the electromagnetic fields and electro magnetic radiation. Now as always. I like to say you know. It's funny sometimes because i'm indian and because my business partners the doctor just lobby people end up calling me. Dr perot. it dr drew. I mean that'd be great to have the nickname. Dr drew in following the legacy of the first dr drew. But i'm not a doctor. I'm not an expert in this area of electromagnetic radiation of electromagnetic nor my expert in any area related to health. I am not a forty. I'm simply the hype man for help. I'm trying to collect all this. Take the take the best and most interesting experts in and around the world bring on the podcast take themes and and books and articles and studies that day send me put them and remix them together on topics that i'm passionate about and highlight the growing evidence in a particular field. Just like i'm doing with ems right now in a smart way in a way that is not to scare you in a way that can be looked at followed up. Vetted i'm not publishing research. But i'm putting out all the links to all the studies and references that we have for this episode. Specially if you sign up for the try this newsletter. You'll find all the references in our enough article which i believe is over thirty references that are there and you can dig into it and i'm also admitting that space controversial. But they're still stuff that we can do and they're still action that we can take in. It's still important to jump into now. We have had some experts on m. f. on the podcast dr carlos ridder. You can find his interview the show notes. He was a medical doctor from mexico. Who then came to america and specializes through his company nights in protecting families in homes and doing education on the topic of emf and especially dirty electricity. He's inspired greatly. Today's episode and the try this newsletter. We also put out a call to dr deborah lee davis to be on the podcast. So i'm hoping that we have iran soon so i'm not the expert but here's the thing you don't need to be the expert in this to start piecing bits of the puzzle together and then to look at it from afar and say does it make sense to you. Is this a strong enough argument. Is there enough emerging data that. This is an area that you want to pay attention to. So let's talk about ems and there's a great summary on cancer dot gov one of the official government or websites in the us on all things cancer. And i'm gonna read out there breakdown. Which is really great. We differ on the conclusions and they differ from a lot of the conclusions of the studies have found again in the emerging research. It's out there. But they have a great summary on ems so first and foremost before we go into electro-magnetic radiation and fields. We have to remember that there are both natural and human made sources of non. I emma icing either the earth's magnetic field which we often referred to as a good or a positive source of your maths is one example of naturally occurring. Ems so we just want to be mindful just like sugar in fruit is not bad and even sugar is not bad too much sugar in our diets especially in process forms can wreak havoc on metabolic health by having influence on insulin through all the different episodes of you talked about four. So today we're we're specifically chatting about is the unnatural quote unquote not the earth. Emf there's also radiation that we're exposed to as go higher and higher into the atmosphere and especially in space from the sun. We're not so much talking about that. We're talking about the unnatural forms so electric reading again from the cancer dot gov article electric and magnetic fields are invisible areas of energy also called radiation that are produced by electricity which is the movement of electrons or current through a wire an electric field is produced by voltage. Which is the pressure us to push the electrons through the wire much like water being pushed through a pipe voltage increases. The electric fields increase in strength. Electric fields are measured in volts per meter. V over m a magnetic field results from the flow of current through the wires or electrical devices and increases in the strength as the current increases the strength of a magnetic field decreases rapidly with increasing distance from its source. Magnetic fields are measured in micro tesla's electric fields are produced whether or not a device is termed on whereas magnetic fields are produced. Only current is flowing which usually requires a device to be powered on power lines produce magnetic fields continuously because current is always flowing through them. Electric fields are easily shielded or weakened by walls or other objects whereas magnetic fields can pass through buildings living things and most other materials. There's a little bit of disagreement on the electric fields are easily shielded and weakened by walls and other. We'll come back to that a little bit later. On electric and magnetic fields together are referred to as electro magnetic fields or e. m. f.'s there's two primary categories and this is pretty important there's high frequency. Emf's which includes x rays and gamma rays these emf's ionizing radiation part of the electromagnetic spectrum and can damage dna or cellular or sells directly. Now this is drew speaking here. Just a little caveat so we all know that xrays right you go and get an x ray done at your dentist or at the doctor's office and they try to put lead on you and other parts of the body if you've ever watched tra- noble the minneapolis owed series on. Hbo you know that. The damage of x rays is widely known and under stood. So that's the high frequency earmuffs that are out there that includes as end gamma rays which were exposed to as we go higher and higher well you can be exposed to a lot of different forms now. The part of today's podcast. We're going to be focusing on is the low to mid frequency m. f.'s particularly the low frequency. Ms going back to the article from cancer dot gov low-frequency ems. They include static fields and magnetic fields from electric power lines appliances radio waves. Microwaves infrared radiation and visible light. And back to me now. This also includes cellphones now. Cell phones are two way microwave. Radio that sends and receives a type of non ionizing electromagnetic radiation called radiofrequency radiation. Or you'll often see it referred to as r. f. r. and while cell phones get a lot of attention when it comes to low frequency. Ems we always talking about cell phones when it comes to em avs and radiation our stuff so cell phones have 'em and how damaging those ems are to the body and dna ourselves is controversial but more and more of its emerging but a lot of the other low-frequency ems that we're exposed to comes from electrical wiring electrical appliances. This includes things like shavers and hairdryers and electric blankets. That a lot of people use basically anything that's plugged in anywhere including our electric cars so all those also admit low frequency. Ems now why the concern. We know. High frequency emf's caused damage when we have exposure for a long time. We didn't by the way there was science. That was out there. But we didn't understand that. Radioactive isotopes and molecules could cause as much damage to cells as do so radioactive material was often included in things like paint for different industrial type type paint because it sturdiness and color and other sorts of functions so even though there was some data that was out there it was still allowed to be used because again it takes a while for the data to convince everyone all the stakeholders that are needed to take take action so that we're clear of but why the concern with low frequency. Ems and the simple answer primarily is dna damage exposure to extremely low frequency electromagnetic fields even at levels lower then are tested when we come to safety measures and a lot of these safety standards that are there. Even in the united states have been from laws that were passed years ago decades ago the technology completely out dates those laws so exposure to extremely low frequency electromagnetic fields even at lower levels that are stated in the safety recommendations can break dna now our body in fact every cell has the ability to repair dna through very advanced mechanisms including recent assists. This is known in everybody. Learns about this in in advanced biology and definitely. You know if you're a healthcare. Practitioner learn about the power of ourselves to repair dna but when that damages constant or that damage is growing or coming from multiple sources over prolonged period of time. Our cells cannot keep up with the repair process. And they start to make mistakes. Those mistakes can cause mutations enough mutations and the thought and the thinking is that that can promote the growth of cancer which is why. There's been so many studies linked to and why it was the world health organization's organization on cancer cancer research the international agency for research on cancer which came out with that strong wording that electromagnetic fields are class to be carcinogen and that was in two thousand and eleven. When dna breaks ourselves can usually repair and by the way besides. Em maths plenty of things are constantly breaking our dna on a regular basis. not just environmental toxins. There's cells that reach their their own particular life and have enough damage. Dna because they've been ignored or mechanism hasn't happened properly or we are nutrition nutrient deficient and in particular thing. So there's a whole bunch of reasons. Besides ems cells would have dna damage so dna damage is occurring all the time but when the dna damage is growing and when it's coming from multiple different forms whatever that environmental toxin is and in this case we're talking about. Ems our cells cannot keep up. They do as best as they can. But it's like a wrecking ball. That's constantly hitting building. And you have you know one hundred workers that are there to repair it but if you have a big skyscraper and there's one wrecking ball but then one wrecking ball turns into ten ten to twenty and the building constantly gets hit over and over and over no matter how many workers you have. If there's more balls are doing damage. The workers are not going to be able to efficiently repair the the building. And that's what's going on inside of bodies. The science goes a lot deeper. And in fact there's great science for anybody that wants to go even further in the mechanisms. It's covered in detail on a lot of studies that we have linked up and the environmental health trust has Fantastic page of literature on ems. That will also linked to as well so the thing is even if someone doesn't get cancer it's not just about cellphones being linked to potentially increasing the risk of cancer. Even if somebody doesn't get cancer they're still cellular damage that happens when dna is broken and it can happen at levels that over. The long haul can cause serious problems in our health. The more cells that are damaged the harder. It is individually for organ systems to do their job and for repair to take place. Now this has been well established an animal models and they're even some studies that link that we linked to the show notes where you can see this well documented especially a lot of the tumor studies in kansas studies on on models of exposing rats and mice to cell phones where it's harder and a lot of controversy comes in is for humans is very controversial when we try to extrapolate this animal data. That's out there and pretty well established when it comes to ems and continuing to grow it becomes challenging and controversial when it's applied to humans. Now let's look into that before we get into all of our tips on what we can do to protect ourselves under the precautionary principle. Let's look at. Why does this challenging to study in humans. One number one. It's hard to study. Emf damage in humans. Because we don't have scientific equipment that can study. Dna cellular damage easily an instantaneously. If we could look at your body right now and inexpensively or or not super costly instantaneously. Look at the damage. That's happening from different. Umf exposure on a cellular level. We would see it. We probably see in a lot of researchers speculated because one day we will we will have the science. We would see a building that was getting hit with a bunch of really tiny bullets. Big skyscraper has been penetrated by a bunch of bb gun pellet size things even smaller than that i would say maybe even smaller than than a bb gun but that was happening a little bit here and there but constantly throughout the day there was a whole here. There's a horrible on the magic. One hundred story skyscraper and on floor eighty. One of the windows breaks because a bb gun pellet went through and went right through the building and then four fifty and then a few minutes later for three and even other all small you could see the damage so once we have scientific equipment that can easily and instantaneously start to notice this. We can more easily see the damage. That's being built up over a period of time. We don't have that right now. The second thing is it's expensive to do big trials and the question is always going to be who's gonna pay for the study. Same thing goes with nutrition. It's tough you often have to have a groundswell of smaller studies and movement. That convinces bigger organizations often universities and nonprofits to put their energy behind it and start to do these big big trials and not to mention that cell phone and tech companies and any company and technology that has a stake in showing ems her safe. Because they don't want to face litigation. They flood the market with their own studies showing no to minimal harm similar to how the tobacco companies did. You don't have to disprove another study. You just have to put a bunch of studies out there that show that there isn't as much harm as somebody else. And then you create doubt. That's what happened tobacco and this is happening right now. In the world of emf number three the third reason why it's hard to study this in humans is that it's hard attract the natural amount of emf exposure that comes from multiple sources and is applied to us and impacting our body. Over years. in our life we're getting exposure through home devices why fi and yes. Cell phone radiation. Which even when we're not on a call by the way. The cell phone is often very close to our body or in our pockets. Once showed that men. Out of the cleveland clinic once they showed that men who had cell phones and kept it in their pocket had a greater risk for low sperm. Count then men who didn't so this is all say that we're really just going to a big giant experiment when it comes to electromagnetic radiation and i would argue that. You don't need to know at this moment while we do need to know ultimately and praised all researchers that are out there that are looking into this Hats off to them but right now because it's such a controversial space. The real question is do you with the emerging data. That's out there. Do you wanna be a part of this experiment now. The challenges that were part of this experiment. We do our best to reduce exposure to our life. But we cannot really if you're going to live in the modern life and function businesses and do cool stuff and post continent line and listen to podcast things like that. You're going to be exposed. That's just the nature of it. So the name of the game is we do our best. To reduce exposure without putting a tin foil hat on and without getting into a fear mindset because also fear is another form of stress when our bodies constantly and firefly. Because we're so afraid that's another form of stress. We don't want that want to be informed. I wanna take action our lives. We don't need a tin foil hat. So let's jump into the seven ways that we can reduce our exposure and protect our brain especially at night using the precautionary principle in our own. Life we are probably in at least the next decade not going to get universal wide level agreement that emf's are harmful to the degree that measures are going to be taken for us at a population level that would reduce our exposures. I hope it happens. But i not very confident. It's going to happen in the next ten years with especially five g a game changer. I mean five g. will revolutionize technology five g will do a lot of really incredible things for the economy. Five g will do incredible things for business. And there's a lot of concern around five g a lot of concern in this category of emf. and i'm not well versed in the science to go into breaking down the research on it but we do have a link on five g. and some resources that are there by the environmental health trust and the work by by their founder. Who have mentioned a few times that will link in the show notes. So i don't see anything happening in the next ten years so we gotta take action and we gotta do our best to limit. So let's jump in seven days. Seven ways is what you've been waiting for. Let's jump in seven practical ways. I think they're practical. There's a lot more you can do. But these are seven things we've put together. That are no brainers that we wanna start implementing day especially at night at night. We'll get back to that so the first thing that understanding before we jump into those seven ways is this isn't just about cell phone radiation the big takeaway from today's episode is that this is about low-frequency. Ems which includes as we learned from dr carlos ritter when he was on. Our show includes anything. That's plugged into an outlet where this becomes most pressing is at night while we sleep at night. Our brain and our body goes into deep dna and cellular repair for a long time. Didn't even understand. What is the real mechanism behind sleep. Why do we sleep well. Sleep is for repair and our body has its own detoxification system and our our brain actually has its own detoxification system which we've done episodes on glymph attic system when our body and brains its repair process. We want to do everything. We can to reduce exposure to present to potential so excited. I'm getting tongue tied to potential insults so to speak an insult. Stressor any kind of stressor in this case we're talking about. Emf the more we do to reduce umf exposure at night when we sleep the better fighting chance we have to give our body during the day because the truth is there's only so much we can do. During the day to reduce exposure every single one of us has cell phone towers all around us. Wi fi neighbor's wifi even. If you don't have wi you live in an apartment or you live in a house. Chances are with how powerful wi fi is. these days are getting. Your neighbor's wifi exposure to and most of us are using things that are plugged in all day. Long like our laptops and other things like that. So start with protecting yourself at night. And here's how tip number one most of us know. Don't keep your cell phone next to you and you sleep. I literally used to have a friend. Smart friend not gonna throw him under the bus putting his name. Smart guy health conscious everything. He would fall asleep with his cell phone underneath his pillow because he was heavy sleeper in his alarm. Go off and he didn't wanna go across the room to grab it. I hope we know. Now that even apple themself would say no to not keep your cell phone right next to your brain especially at night. Think about that's eight hours. Your brain is next day. Your cell phone is next year brain so most of us know. Do not keep your cell phone next to you while you're sleeping but also here's the next level of that right and this is gonna be tough for some people and this is gonna be game changer. But this is what the literature and the science is showing. Do not have your cell phone plugged into the wall next to your bed because even if your cellphone's on airplane mode and it's connected to the wifi which will get to a second. it's still plugged into an outlet. Anything plugged into an outlet is giving off. Ems unless you've had somebody come to your house who understands ems and has retrofitted appropriately or you're using a device to dampen the the f. There are some devices. I haven't looked into them as much and i can't vouch for how strong they are. But there's one that's called green wave dirty electricity filter I got to look into it more. And i got try it on my own. So unless you've had somebody come in and clean up your dirty electricity unless you're using something that is known to suppress dirty electricity. Anything you have plugged in next to your bed is giving off dirty electricity electromagnetic radiation all throughout throughout the night. So that includes your cell phone but also tip number two. Don't leave anything else. Plugged into your bed or nightstand next tier head especially at night. This includes alarm clocks lamps lights or any other device that plugs into a wall. I mean most of us probably have nightstand and this is a tough one. It's actually easy to do. But it's tough because you got to reorganize your room a little bit. Anything plugged into a wall. Emit some amount of dirty electricity and for a lot of people. Just what we learned in our interview with dr collins ritter. That's where a huge chunk. In some cases. The bulk of their umf exposure comes from a lot of people are getting more emf exposure by interacting with something that's plugged in whether at night or during the day than even from cell phones so we're also cautious about cell phones or at least most people that are listening to this podcast. We know we're trying to use cellphones appropriately. But we're not trying to. You know you already see more people using the cell phone on speaker so it's awkward. you don't want people listening to your call if you're alone or if you feel comfortable you put cell phone on speaker. We know that we use a wired headset. That's one way that we make sure that we're not putting the cell phone right next to our brain so we're cautious about cell phone radiation a lot of us. Are we try to be. We use things like safe. Sleep is a say sleeve. trump is. I don't know how much protection get from that sleeve because if it was really protecting me at a full level it would have suppressed all cellular activity coming into the cell phone. But it doesn't. I think safe safe great because they are preventing the directional. Em math that is towards your ear especially for people who put the cell phone next to their ear. Know what sleeve is you can google it. I use one. Because i haven't found anything better. If you find something better email me find my contact on the website. But i use save sleep because i haven't found anything better and it seems to have some benefit versus using nothing but i still even still. I don't put the cell phone up to my ear. Always talk on speakerphone or through a wired had set but in addition to that as cautious as we are about cell phones even when you're exposed to things that are plugged into the wall and you're right next to it you're getting emf exposure so ideally at night when our bodies and deep dna repair. Let's not keep anything plugged in right nearby our head or nightstand including a lamp including an alarm clock. Put it on the other side of the room. Moving six feet away from the bed. Just don't have it right next to your head and ideally put your phone on the opposite side of the room. Yeah we're all worried about that. Call in the middle of night from a parent or a child or whatever it is. I understand that it's tough to have your cell phone off completely. There's no good answer right now. I'm sure you could wire your cell phone. There are devices where you can wired into the router instead of using wi fi or cell phone or other stuff. That's seems like a hassle. I know that. Dr carlos ridder's recommendations that are there and some people it might get to that especially if there are people who are emf sensitive which that is a thing so at least let's keep it on the other side of the room potentially even outside of the room if you can and you can still hear it in your doors open so you can wake up when your alarm goes off where you get an urgent call sir. Speak now tip number three. If anything that's plugged in that has voltage is creating electromagnetic radiation. That means that we also want to be wary about avoiding using our cell phone while it's charging a lot of people plugging their cell phone. They've had a busy day. Their cell phone is low battery. They plug in their cell phone at night right next to their bed and they're using the cellphone while it's charging now this one is tough. This one is really tough and it's honestly a little bit of a bitch it really is. It's hard to organize your life and not use devices that are actively plugged in. It's so tough but research has shown that multiple studies that you're emf exposure from devices especially cell phone and laptops but even things like electric blankets and stuff can be ten times. What it is. I guess in the case of an electric blanket. It doesn't really hold a charge but like your laptop and your cell phone. They have a battery your exposure to emf an electromagnetic. Radiation can be up to ten times. More when you're using the device while it's charging so ideally you let your devices charge away from your body once they're done charging enough for you to use them and use them same goes with your laptop and same goes with your phone. It's tough. It's really tough. But i'm trying to give you some simple tools as ways to reduce your emf exposure. So even for a lot of my team i've been recommending them. We have sixty employees in my company. Mean dr hammond. Between all the different businesses we have been recommending a lot of individuals that ideally especially if you use a laptop which most of us use and hopefully you're not keeping you on your lap. Keep it on the desk. Use the laptop lead charge overnight. Ideally away from you and your bad in your head and then use it in the morning and depending on how long it holds a charge if you have to charged again tried to take a break. Let it charge. Don't work with your laptop plugged in all day long constantly exposing your body to an electrical charge of something that's plugged in same thing goes with your phone. Let it charge. Unplug it then. You can use your phone. That's going to reduce significantly your emf exposure from dirty electricity. One thing is also of use. A monitor or of use. A laptop is plugged in talked to a lot of different experts about this. Ideally it'd be better to use bluetooth even though this isn't great or a wired keyboard mouse so that you're not touching your laptop directly while it's plugged in you can use bluetooth or a wired keyboard and mouse. There is concerns around bluetooth but hey listen. We all have to make sacrifices if we're gonna live in this world until better technology comes. We're just trying to make sure that we can survive without wearing a fucking tinfoil hat. So these are the best recommendations that i have number four number four out of seven. Avoid sleeping with your head or body near a wall that has an electrical panel or electric appliance on the other side. Sounds a little tougher but especially see this a lot of bedrooms. Where on the other side of the bedroom. There's a kitchen. And i had dr carlos come into my house both apartment that my fiance and i live in also the house i was in previously any measured the emf f. and in my bedroom downstairs in my house. One of the things. He found that on the other side of my bedroom was the refrigerator and that refrigerator. Which was plugged in is quite a large device is emitting a halt shit ton of electro-magnetic radiation. So if you are in a bedroom and on the other side of that especially where your bed is or your head is a night when you sleep because is really about protecting your brain at night. Try to move the bat around a little bit or just you know further away from the wall. I'm not as versed in the science enough to tell you how far away you need to be from the wall. But i'll dig into it and alaska round but you don't wanna be right next to the wall and it probably largely depends on the device how strong it is and the electrical outlet so i'm sure differs but we'll do our best number five. If you have kids remember. Their brains are smaller remove any devices that are plugged into their rooms next to their beds. If you have a cell phone plugged in on your nightstand and you're an adult and you've yourself unplugged in on your nightstand. Your kidding or an ipad. you're both getting exposure dirty electricity but adults. We have thicker skulls. Our bodies are more developed. They can handle more exposure kids. Their brains are still going. Their skulls are still small. There are greater risk is what the evidence shows. That's out there so protect your kids. This includes wi fi by the way if you can and this one's tough to turn off your wi fi at night and if you can't and i don't always do that just being real. It's tough because i keep my phone in airplane mode. And then if i end up charging my phone in my room away from my bed and i keep an airplane food and i turn off the wi fi. I can't get any calls. And i'm going to admit that i am scared to get that call in the middle of night and not be there to pick it up. I've definitely got a couple my life. Maybe want a year one every two years but it happens and that's enough of a fear that i'm just being realistic. I'm not gonna turn my phone off completely so if you don't feel comfortable turning off your wifi at night the other thing you can do is don't have your wi fi in your room at night. If you have wi wifi router try to put it away further than your bedroom. Or if you haven't extender you know there's all these different devices that have extenders. They're out there make. Sure you don't have wifi extender in your room or that. It's turned off. It can just be strong enough that your phone gets reception. If a call comes in and most people they use apple and you have wifi enabled calls. You can allow wi fi in right. I guess dr carlos would say that you can always wire your phone. There's ethernet cables that then plug into your phone through the that are there and they can hard wire in. That's an option. I haven't done that. Maybe i'll do that. I'm moving soon. Maybe i'll do that at my new place and see if it's actually practical and report back to you but going back to kids. Avoid placing fi routers in your child's room or at least turn it off at night. Their brains are smaller. We got to protect their brains. Last one number seven this one's splurge but there's so much data on it now. We know that one of the things that can counteract. Emf's earthen earth is the process of putting your bare feet on the ground. It's called grounding grounding or thing and it's the act of being connected to the hurts surface and absorbing its electrical charge from the ground and into the body the earth's surface holds an infant supply of electrons and carries a negative a net negative charge. This electromagnetic force played and evolutionary role in creating ordering our bodies by stabilizing our own internal by electrical environment now. Humans went from sleeping outdoors and walking outside on their bare feet for most of history to living endorse sleeping in beds and wearing rubber soled shoes in very short period of time. This transition to modern day living has caused us to become disconnected from the earth in its natural electromagnetic field and underexplored. Scientists research shows that grounding has a significant impact on human health earth electrons works similarly to antioxidants in the body by quenching positively charged free radicals and lowering inflammation absorbing earth's electrons helps improve blood flow by increasing red blood cell surface charge which which reduces aggregation discuss ity and clumping earth thing or grounding as it's often known has demonstrated significant benefits to a whole host of things including cardiovascular health chronic fatigue immune function etc etc. Now there's two big ways to do this one is a little bit of a splurge one is available to all of us. Take a walk outside barefoot after being exposed to emf's at high levels or working all day or even at night or beyond airplane or laptop or whatever walking outside for b barefoot with your feet on the ground like touching grass or earth or sand for thirty to forty minutes can help neutralize the effects of imax emf exposure so grounding. If you don't know about it google it. It's a free tool available for everyone. Another tool that's there but this one's a splurge is there's a company called thing. I've no affiliation with them. They don't even know that. I'm mentioning them on the podcast but i actually have one of their sleep kits and by the way it's not cheap. It's not cheap at all a few hundred bucks and it's a kit that you can put on your bed. That ben is grounded by plugging it into the outlet but specifically it has an adapter which only plugged into the grounding. Wire if you ever look at outlet has a three prong system the first two top prongs and often the third prong at the bottom. The third in the bottom is a grounding. Wire it links to a copper wire built into your building or house that basically goes all the way into the ground. It's another form of grounding and what this company has found earth dot com. ea are t h. I n g dot com is that you can use the specific type of material that has a wire imagine like it sets a type of bedsheet or matt looks like a yoga mat almost and can plug into the wall in that grounding wire and this can be tested using a voltage meter it will displace the electrons in the emf to a certain degree. There's lot of debate around this but there'll be some degree of emf dissemination from your body going through the wire into the wall through the copper wire all the way down into the earth to another form of grounding the also have mats for working like. I'm at a laptop right now. I'm in my fiance's office out to my fiancee. Yasmin haven't seen her podcasts. Before it's called behind her empires fantastic any buddy. That's interested especially who want to build a business she interviews top top top women self made women in business anyways. I'm commandeered her podcasting steel office late at night and both in her office and my own office. We have a grounding matt under the desk right now. i'm using a monitor. My laptop is plugged in. Because i'm recording a podcast and it's an hour long in the battery charge on my laptop strong and it probably end up dying and i just got a record this anyway for you guys so i gotta do my best. I'll sacrifice a little bit. But i have a matt underneath me. A grounding matt that's plugged into the wall and call me crazy call placebo. But i noticed a difference when i use this matt again. There's not a plug. They aren't paying me. I have no affiliation with company. When i use that one. I'm working especially when i'm sleeping a little bit one. I'm working special laptop or devices plugged in. I noticed a difference. I started getting a few years ago. This crazy twitching in my again. My i that would twitch up a little bit now. You google twitching. The i and i've talked to a bunch of friends. Dr robin burs in dr michael. Sorry dr mark. Hyman and you know different things can cause twitching the is all dehydration b twelve deficiency other stuff. But i would always notice that. By which when i was the laptop especially with plugged in my. Emf matt the grounding that. I didn't notice it as much. That's not a claim. I'm just sharing my own experience. In fact it's probably not true. But just something that i've noticed so that's a splurge too i mean. These mats are not expensive. These mets are not cheap man. I got to conclude here. I'm starting to slur. I'm recording this at ten o'clock at night it's time to go to bed and get my rest as a as i encourage you. All these mats are not cheap some not recommending that everybody going by one you can still do plenty of free and low cost things to reduce your exposure. Tm fs in your household follows seven steps. That are out there. Bonus eight step. Dr carlos reader has a company called. Emf nights lincoln the show notes that completely retrofits people's houses. I don't know exactly what the prices. But i'm imagining. It's quite expensive. And it's probably only available to people that are well off or have dispose large amounts of disposable income. I don't think it's millions of dollars. But i'm not i'm guessing it's not super cheap and they can work with you in retrofit. Your home and apartment and other stuff have not done yet but a good friend of mine. Jp that austin had dr richard come to his house and do that and He was able to significantly reduce the emf in the house through rewiring and getting rid of dirty electricity. So that's a bonus check them out is a great guy and doing some great work. That's out there so in conclusion. There's still a lot in this category that we do not know. There's more research that needs to be done. But the merchant research is out there. And you have to be the ceo of your own health and see your family's health and look at this and dive into this literature. That's out there and decide if you wanna take some precaution. I personally it's worth it. But that's my own bias. You look into it. You come up with your own conclusions but just remember. There's a lotta scam products. That are out there and there's a lot of bs that's out there even the world of health and wellness. There's taught filled with bs just as much as we want to criticize corporations and other stuff for bearing research and the tobacco industry. The wellness industry is littered with people. That are just trying to get rich. Quick stuff so they have different little stickies that you put on your phone that supposedly blocking you maths other stuff. A lot of that stuff for me. Talking to experts does not work the stuff that does work or even worse little bit usually has some data behind it. It's not just based on some hippie version or interpretation of quantum physics so beware. There's a lot of scam products and do not go crazy. Just do your best like with everything. This isn't about going crazy and freaking out about maths. We're not gonna freak out. We're not gonna freak out about anything that's my motto. I'm gonna intelligently look at stuff take calculated action to protect myself level that makes sense rinse and repeat focus on number three focus on protecting your brain at night. That is crucial. There's not a lot we can do during the day besides maybe not using a laptop. That's not thin but there's not much we can do during the day we're all going to be exposed to a lot of different apps and some of them may not be that bad. And that's it. I hope you have found this. Podcast useful stay tuned for the newsletter. Version reducing your emf exposures. Coming out on the drew perot newsletter. Which recalling try this every week. If you like this podcast every week you're gonna get one of these. It's going to be a protocol featuring the emerging science and research in particular topic how we can embrace things like the precautionary principle to take the minimum viable dose or to do the things that are practical and that were able to do in our lives. And if we're gonna spend money. What is the least amount of money that we can spend for the biggest bang for the buck. That's what i feature every week in this newsletter. That's coming out called. Try this sign up for it. Drew perot it. That's d. h. r. u. p. u. r. o. h. i. t. dot com slash newsletter or. Just go to drew perot at dot com and click on the newsletter linked to sign up. We're going to be launching in a couple of weeks. Thanks for tuning in to the podcast. I'll see you later on this week. Thursday we got a big episode. Ben beckmann it's gonna be fantastic stay tuned.

cancer dr william lee floride Dr drew international agency for resea world health organization Routier dr deborah davis Brain cancers breast cancer europe Dr neil patel dr deck coon lee Dr deke organization world health orga kaiser journal of royal society of me dr jason angiogenesis foundation dr william leona Dr william louise
Encore Episode! Hammer Killing Murder Trial - Part 2: FL v. Mark Sievers

Court TV Podcast

44:20 min | 1 year ago

Encore Episode! Hammer Killing Murder Trial - Part 2: FL v. Mark Sievers

"Hey Court TV podcast listeners. Courtrooms are still shut down across the country. But that doesn't mean you can't get your fix of the American justice system. We have hours of complete trials available in the trials on demand section of court. Tv DOT COM including the trial. We speak about in this. Encore presentation of the PODCAST. Thanks for listening. The views and opinions expressed in this. Podcast are simply that opinions. All are presumed innocent until proven otherwise in a court of law sensitive topics are discussed discretion is advised on this week's court. Tv podcast after a long holiday weekend. We'll bring you up to speed on the latest in the hammer killing murder. Trial is the prosecution proving its case that marked cevers orchestrated the killing of his beloved wife. Dr Theresa Savers or can the defense offer an alternate theory behind her death and we have updates on to other cases that have captivated the nation convicted murderer. Odd Non Saieed an alleged serial rapist. Rb One st this is the court. Tv podcast with Vinny Solitaire. Polygon and Sima Ir Welcome to the DVD. Podcast. I've seen the I here with my partner in Crime Vinnie. Palton you partner in crime. Look at us today. We look like criminals dressed in all black. We didn't plan swim color for me. That is not one of concerns in life but it is weird that we came to address. But I'm clearly not in the world of crime. Never have been. I'm anti-crime okay across with the disclaimer. Stand I get. I don't want people get the wrong idea. I think I think I walk around and going to courtrooms with Pinky rings on and stuff I actually spend most of my career I like to say having the heartbeat job. I was a heartbeat away from being a criminal. Right there's a fine line between a criminal defense attorney and a criminal sometimes but not all the time we need them folks And we love him they. They are the foundation of our system of justice. They keep US rolling solution. Yes not enough all right. Let's get into the case that we're into on court TV and if you don't get it get a digital antenna rescan it and watch it. Yeah it is amazing. That's our day job recovering trial now out of Florida and involves a man named mark. Who's accused of orchestrating? Love that word orchestrating the murder of his own wife Dr Theresa Cevers and what prosecutors say. He did enlist the help of his best friend in the world. His best. Buddy Curtis Right. Who's also was d'appel Ganger who then enlisted the help of his friend. Jimmy the Hammer Rogers and the two of them bludgeoned to death. Dr Cevers while Marks Devers was out of Florida in another state far away from the scene of the crime. Rogers has been convicted. Right and right Curtis Right. Took a deal and is the key witness against mark sievers his his former best buddy and now cevers is on trial with yet. Another d'appel Ganger. His lawyer right so initially. March Devers. Look everybody. Looks like the man his best friend because they were all they had go. Tease sort of the same physique. We're in the same type of glasses and then at trial all of a sudden marked cevers loses a little bit of weight shaved the Goatee and now looks like his lawyer. Crate Nordea is. He's a comedian. I think he adapt wherever trying. Because if you watch him in court he's really trying to adapt to let say the emotional testimony in the gruesome testimony so his face makes these weird convulsions and contortions and he's trying he's trying so hard to get the tears audis trying so hard and it's not coming you know. I should teach them this trick. Okay so a trick on how to cry you take vastly and I know this. I also am an Indian dance or you know this and so what some of the teachers used to do. Is You put the vast lean in your bosom. That's your between your boobs okay. And you put in the Broth and then you've cold your our hand over your eyes and you just squeeze and water comes out and goes to your eyes and it makes you cry from the Selene. Selene visine advising Bassolino. Sorry slowdown vising crazy. And that's how and that's how we crazy Indian dances dancers like from India. Not Native American to get to make sure that you're being politically incorrect things for once in my life. So cevers I think that keyword you said in describing this defendant which is what has made him stand out to me. Was the word weird. There's a weirdness factor to all of his mannerisms the way he acts the way he looks everything even when he was shackled and walking a months ago when years ago when I got arrested everything he does a little weird. And it's now coming out in the trial through testimony. And let me tell you through so Jimmy. The Hammer Rogers. Who's been convicted of the murder? Second degree murder at a prior trial his ex girlfriend testified tailor shoemaker and she testified about some of her observations and the observations took place on the night before. Curtis writes wedding which according to prosecutors is the night. That marks cevers solicits. His friend Curtis right to commit the murder. Which is the night before? Curtis writers is marrying his bride. Angie so take a listen as she describes what's going on the night before the wedding. Did you see whether or not there came a time? When Mr Right and Mr Reidy and Mr Severs kind of went Aside and had a conversation outside and everybody else yes I did. Can You tell the ladies and gentlemen the jury about that It was the night before the wedding. They had went off into Indian Wayne's bedroom and had a private conversation with anyone else in there with them. No okay now this prosecutors are going with. This is that they went into the bedroom alone the night before. Curtis's wedding to have a conversation and the conversation of course processing say is all about a solicitation for murder right correct. Could there be another interpretation of this behavior. Absolutely he's having cold feet. He needs to talk to his best friend. He's getting married to hug. He needs a hug. A warm embrace saying. Hey man it's okay. Just do a show Tequila and just go get married or everything's GonNa be okay. You'll be a good provider. Don't worry she's the girl for you. I don't know what people tell each other before you're getting married. No no I think I think it could be a completely different direction and this is because of some cross examination. That was shut down by the judge. Threw an objection by the prosecution where the defense was going after Curtis right and his sexuality. Okay you and I have different interpretations. Okay okay I think that the defense attorney was trying to lay the foundation to establish the sexual relationship between all of the parties meaning the cevers couple and the rights as a couple. You think it was more one on one it was it was more about whether or not you know he may entertain the thought of of being with a man and a a specific man. Mark seaver seating. That's why they went in the bedroom. I think the defense could make some arguments that they were not soliciting murder. They were making love. Maybe you're like. Oh look like Curtis writes Bachelor Party. And it's a strange defense for the defense to put out there but I mean could it be that we didn't know there was a solicitation of murder that night it was a night of passion. I don't know wall okay. So just here. Let me. Just do this okay. Now the reason vomiting is because I think if you're going to go for somebody don't go for someone who looks exactly like you that's weird. It's like a twin brother. Would you would you call that perverted? Perhaps I may take listen to more testimony and the reason. I'm tying all this together for you right now. It's telling the show maker also testified about what she thought about mark and it came out through cross examination which was kind of weird. But listen to this so you said that you saw Mr right and Mr Cevers go off together. Is that correct inside or outside? I was inside okay. And was there anything about Mr Savers that specialty year look his way. I in parity was kind of a pervert. It really looked as because of it. Pervert I love it? It's a new word. Can we just pause for a second? She says perverting like for a defense attorney. Just shoot me in the head. Shoot me in the head and kill me dead. I don't want to live any longer because this moment defines my entire reputation as a criminal defense attorney but then okay then he says. I'm sorry what was that. Could you repeat the back row? The yeah you hear that could you. I'm sorry could you? I didn't hear you and I want you to say it again and this time louder and clear. Thank you very much are hurt right. But here's maybe this is some sort of perverted way that the defense can use this. Okay that okay. Cevers is perverted and they went into the bedroom and it has nothing to do with. Murder has to do with sexual perversion. And all the things that they were into looking like each other and being together and they're doing all these things that have nothing to do with murder. Marks just was not a murder Ryan. I honestly I understand. This is the defense you need. You need the defense to be right. Having some motive to kill Dr Theresa. That is what I need as defense attorney. Okay desk to get there. I have to establish that Curtis right either had some obsession crush with Dr Theresa or he had a relationship with Theresa or with Mark and was in the way mosh is on their on their Bromance Nance that was the word as for you know what you're looking for well could be and I don't know I don't know if it would work I don't truth I'm just trying to put the pieces together. That are coming out through this trial and I can't do it because I'm not following where the defense is going what their theory is. And I think it's a big problem and a lot of it has to do with mark sievers being a little bit weird you agree that the vast night why the the listeners have to tune in every day to closing arguments to see your impression of Marcus Iverson Entre. He's so busy busy to be sitting here on. This is a death penalty. Case is one of my favorite things you've ever done and that is so. Vinnie is on the anchor desk which is a huge desk folks. We have so much bays vinnie throws all his papers all over the place and for Dennis to be writing things down and does his impression of Mark's devers being too busy to be at his own trial to be. That's what it looks like a huge for him. Okay however I need to remind everyone. It is the most wonderful time of the year right now. I love this time of the year. So wonderful but the the question is is this better for someone who's accused of murder who was facing potential death penalty or is it better for the prosecution representing the victim in the case. Talk about that next. I remember when I was a prosecutor back in the olden days working in the courthouse and this time a year I it was just a different vibe in the courthouse. Much much different VIBE. Because it's the holidays. Everybody's kind of in the spirit. Everyone's Kinda got like one eye looking outside Parrot House because your mind is somewhere else absolutely and it's just. I loved this time of year in the courthouse. Because like you said everyone's in a better mood judges aren't on your Tush to try cases because they don't want to put out jurors but the are the times when you do have a trial during the holidays and for defense attorney it is follow. La La La la La as a prosecutor. I got A had a trial my first year in the trial section. Okay and I had one. It was probably the second week of December as a short trial so it wasn't going to bump into the holidays or anything and and all the senior prosecutors just shaking their heads looking at me saying it's not going to end well for you. It's just an and it was one of those wasn't the strongest case in that ever handled. There were some issues with it and the jury at the end of the day. Utter those two ugly words not guilty did I. I think I think it was part of the holiday spirit share and as a defense attorney you have to play on that. I am not kidding. You vinnie I would wear red and green. I'd wear like winter white. I would inject the word Christmas like subliminal like Oh this is my client John DOE and we're just and you know he's being accused of robbery happy Hannukah and you just you whatever it takes. You have to play up on their sympathy. You have maybe like the defendants kids all dress up in their cute little Christmas outfits in the front rows the Jerry can see them during the trial. Whatever it takes this this is real and it's and right now here on court. Tv case and this is a death penalty case that is like butting up against the holidays they worked before Thanksgiving and continued after Thanksgiving in. And they're working and I think it's a potential problem for prosecutors. But what do you think because we're not okay? We're in the Thanksgiving time of the year. But not sure exactly like right at Christmas. Well here's what I thought that was great for and I want to say great for both sides because the days leading up to Thanksgiving people are so stressed people who cook those are people who aren't me so people who cook. Who aren't me those people they listen to have legitimate concerns right because you have to get to the store certain time you have to buy. Turkeys at a certain time so they thaw and the potatoes and all these peeling situations all. These tasks need to be accomplished. The judge Judge Kyle was very cognizant of that he let people go early on the Tuesday and Wednesday before Thanksgiving so he he brought them also back in a better spirit the concern. I think here for prosecutors the closer we get to Christmas because the penalty phase so if everts is and then we go into the death penalty phase. How how hard is it to sentence someone to death? As JER like agree to death. And then couple that with your more stocking stuff. Yeah exactly yeah. I don't think I honestly think it is a real thing. I think it'll be a real problem. If they get the conviction and go to the penalty phase. I think they have no chance because everything you we hear about the holidays like everything. It's about forgiveness. It's about loving your neighbor. It is about charity. It is about giving so these are these are ordinary room. Because I found around this time of year judges because we would go ahead and do sentencings and violations of probation and all these hearings who wouldn't necessarily do trials. The Week of Iraq did these other types of hearings where people would be sentenced and inevitably even the judges who were had the had the reputation of being really hard. Yeah Yeah Yeah would be soft this time of year violation of probation. And let's give him one more chance. Oh that's a good point you know so oh you know what? A lot of times with sentencing. So that's a really good point. You're just reminded me of so a lot of judges. I know where they would allow. The defendant remain at liberty to stay out until after Christmas so after Christmas in January. Just the holidays. Can we keep them out? We'll come back in January. Maybe they come back. Maybe they don't sometime. I wouldn't come back if I if the judge was like. Oh Yeah Sima just come back on January. Sure thing no problem judgment but I be so I call. I go straight to the airport job on a flight the Air India. And you would never see me again. It's difficult being a prosecutor making those arguments about having someone case me down in Mumbai. Back to court Lakers Christmas in Mumbai is there is. I know there is but I believe this is a true problem for prosecutors if we get to the penalty phase. But it's just part of what happens every year this time of year in courtrooms across America. Okay well we're still going to be debating the holidays throughout the season but coming up next. I want to talk about the podcast that started all hide. Cast is serial podcast and the subject of that podcast. Odd Nonsense Ed. What is happening with his case? Now we'll talk about that next Vinnie. We have gotten so lucky to get this court. Tv podcast and I think it's all because of the podcast that really started the craze and that was the serial podcast absolutely. I remember where I was when I first heard about it and cereal. I said I really don't eat seriously. I'm not that into his carbs. Folks are these not like it and then I found out what it really was and I was like. Oh that's right in my right my alley so And I understand it and it's because these stories are unbelievable and sometimes people don't believe what happens in the course of investigations and prosecutions and appeals and everything else but it did pave the way for us. It paved the way for this podcast and they'd certainly paved the way. Think for the relaunch of court. Tv because this podcast was everyone obsessed with true crime it got the masses interested in the nitty gritty of the law. Which I think in the original court. Tv wasn't there as much as the way we're doing it. Now I think the audience Like folks listening right now much more sophisticated educated and they understand it and it allows us to go even deeper into the weeds so I love yes okay. Let's let's tell everyone some. We have some updates on the subject of the serial podcast. His name is odd non. Siad and he was convicted of killing his ex girlfriend. Hey Manley back in nineteen ninety nine. They were in high school and fast forward to Sometimes the podcast came out and twenty four team but before that his family friend who's also an attorney Robbie Chowdhury Robbie Oh went to a reporter that she knew followed courts and Crime and that was Sarah Canuk and Sarah Kanungu she was then part of the NPR family this American life. What have you so robby just wanted some reporter to get interested? In this case. Because of non has always maintained his innocence always maintained his innocence. So she got Sarah Kane involved and Sarah and her team investigated it and through that investigation. We we were witness to that investigation because it was all played out in the serial podcast and then from the serial podcast just became this massive worldwide obsession right it had some impact on the actual case to. It did have an impact on the actual case so for instance. There were a lot of lawyers that just that really kind of devoted their time so robby child three again family friends. She was always a part of it but then she got to other very well. Known Lawyers Really Brilliant Lawyer Susan Simpson. She's lawyer based in. Dc and Colin Miller. He is a professor he's based in South Carolina. And just so everyone knows. They are. Part of this podcast. That kind of took over where Sour Canuk left off. And that's undisclosed. So the bottom line is he's trying to get a new trial. In February of two thousand sixteen. There was a host conviction hearing held to determine whether he was going to get a new trial and close the basis. What what was who's the main focus and reason they say. This man deserved a new trial alibi and her name is Asia. Mclean and I saw her. I was just a few feet away from her every single day. She testified during that hearing and I found her to be credible and during during the initial trial. Here's she was right there and and she actually was sending letters to his defense attorney saying. Hey he was with me in the library. And the defense attorney just didn't pursue it didn't pursue it now did didn't the client. Odd Non tells attorney. Listen I didn't do it. I was with this the whole time the whole time. He has maintained his innocence. But the is lawyer about the alibi witness. If you will not be like the I I okay. So here's the interesting thing he did. He has always maintained his innocence. He did but I think because of his age he was a high school student. I think because of his his family. They're from Pakistan. They're not from here. I think there was a lot of issues where he was not as outspoken to his lawyer at the time. What is seventeen years old and yeah yeah I understand so they go to this hearing and this is in February twenty sixteen and this was strange. Because he didn't the judge said okay. You can have in neutral but it really wasn't. Based on the alibi it was based on this entirely. Different claim that his trial attorney was ineffective because because she did not cross. Examine the state's cell tower expert. Okay Okay Now. I you know who will explain this better. This is Colin Miller interviewed him for court. Tv Let's take a listen. Factually speaking we have these two phone calls at seven. Nine and seven sixteen pm on the data Ayman Lee was murdered and they ping a tower. That covers Lincoln Park in Baltimore. Maryland's and that's eventually where Manley's body is found months later and the issue is. There's this Aegean t disclaimer. That comes along with this Records in this case that says incoming calls are not reliable for determining location status essentially. There are many issues like at that point in time with incoming things sometimes they would bring the phone of the collar as good as the person received the call a variety of reasons or unreliable and so Christina. Good Gutierrez didn't use that disclaimer. To Cross Examine Estate Cell Tower expert at trial. Okay so that's the essence of what Joe. His phone is ringing at the scene. Where the bodies found. That's the state's evidence that's what the state claimed. But there was this eighteen fax cover sheet which even have a copy of and it basically saying that they're not reliable for determining location. Incoming calls are not reliable reliable. So so this would be. A bad coincidence. Is what you're saying. What's bad coincidence that the the unreliable information just happens to pinpoint his phone at the scene where the victim's bodies found well that well that's what the prosecution's theory is but here's the other problem. It sounds like the defense theory that it's a coincidence that the defense attorney cross examine the expert on that fax cover sheet which she had okay so number one number two is. There's also some discrepancy between weather. His phone was with his friend. Okay so that'd be suspect then his friend and testified against him and that was right so so the but what was strange about this. Hearing was the alibi witness testified and the judge didn't rule based on the alibi witness because of the phone hanging because the the judge was basically saying that the alibi witness didn't fit into the prosecution's timeline. Okay Hey listen. It's a lot for a different time right right at the time of the alleged murderer that prosecutors say exactly so that makes us what he but he won he won at that level but in the in the higher court he did not win. Okay he lost. So then they're the team decides to go to the United States Supreme Court and the United States Supreme Court said we're not listening to this. We're not hearing so they didn't they? Didn't decide on the merits. Take up the case courses and take up every case even if it's like the biggest podcast ever exactly exactly so now. This is where we are today so today. The Court of Appeals of Maryland is saying that we can listen to this case based upon the post conviction hearing that your post conviction lawyer did not bring up the cell phone evidence as an issue. So it's not over. It's not over. It is not over okay. So and this is where it gets and this also bothers me a lot because the lawyer at the post conviction hearing just. Justin Brown was fantastic. His partner was saying I mean they were amazing. This hearing lasted. I think it was four or five days and it was probably better than most trials. I've watched I mean just witnesses. It was it was incredible. But okay so this is where we are now. Odd Non. Say It's not over. He can go back to the State Court because the Court of Appeals of Maryland. Found if he has to say that he waved his cell tower claim based upon his post conviction council so in in essence he has to say the post conviction attorney was ineffective because they didn't bring up the cell phone claim. They were only going with alibi. Wow because the judge in that hearing ruled on the how ruled on the alibi but but said Oh you should have kind of gone with the cell phone. Okay can I just take a step back? How many times can you claim ineffective assistance of counsel like every Lord? This guy gets is bad and is wrong and doesn't get it I don't get it becomes a primary and this is what the judge says and this is what I would have to say. If my post conviction council included the cell tower claim in my first post conviction petition I would have been awarded a new trial and he would have been awarded new trial because the judge in that case judge said he would. But it's too late now. No now they can go back to stay corden cellphone claim. Wow Okay so here's one of the thing itself so this is the other thing okay. There's another way he can do this. And that's file a petition for rid of Habeas Corpus in Federal District Court. But this is really difficult because to get this he would have to prove not just claim prove actual innocence right the Habeas Corpus. My father was a federal judge. There were just piles and piles and piles of them and they would go through them. The law clerks would ferret through all of them. And it's absolutely difficult difficult burden of that you have. I think they're better off going to state court absolutely I think. Especially the judge already ruled on the Yeah okay so I just want. And you know he's saying to before that odd always maintained his innocence. We also spoke to Robbie Chowdhury and this is Robbie A- talking about What has happened since that? Hearing IN TWO THOUSAND SIXTEEN. And how odd non has maintained his innocence. He has only ever maintained his innocence. He was offered a plea deal last year. By the attorney general he turned down. He said I cannot stand up in front of a court of law and take responsibility for something. I didn't do the state at this point. I guess is feeling like there's a chance we could lose. So they're now offering him some sort of a plea. He's not going to say well. This is before so the state offered him some sort of plea at some point and he said No. This is something I cannot do and this is a guilty plea. He'd have to admit that he actually did it. Yes well how about the old Alfred Arena? Where you take a deal but you don't actually have to say you did it because I've seen that before you know the other podcasts. The staircase yes like Oh. Peterson flew okay. Well Robbie and I we've been talking about the Alford plea four years now. Let's take a listen to what Robbie said about an Alford plea offer wouldn't require him to stand in front of cord law and say. I committed this horrific crime. You know one thing that Don said to me he said you know Robbie. It's not that I would be willing to just killing somebody. He's a guy would be admitting that I committed this most horrific way. I planned it. I stalked her. I hid her body. I did all these for him. The crime is so heinous and so it was not worth his freedom. He but if it was an ultra plea I would advise them to take. It does have to take the Alfred. Because you're not admitting to anything you're just getting out of prison bringing behind yelp but you still have a conviction. Yeah but you're putting it behind you. You're putting it anyway now. I just I hate the idea. I listen I agree. I've I've met on non Ma. This is what you do. You take the offered plea. And then you make a documentary and you go out on the circuit and you plead your case to the Court of Public Opinion. About your innocence. Even though he took the Alfred can come on court. Tv and do that absolutely absolutely. But it's fastly so this case is not and I just I. I really hope I have to put it out there because I really hope I got all of the facts and the circumstances correctly. I'm sorry it's just overwhelming and confusing to me. It's been now you know been been following this case for so many years it just all I like when I think back to the hearing I think about Asia Mclean. I think about the facts. Cover sheet of that. At and T. disclaimer. And it's all just it's it's a lot but the bottom line is for people who are following this case. It's not over yet. It's not over but it's not about the alibi. It's about the cell phone tower. Exactly thank you for single. Yeah you you always you always bottomline things for me appreciate that okay so another big case that we are following and this is. This is our court. Tv Obsession and that's the Harvey Weinstein trial. We have some updates talk about that next. We have some updates on the Harvey Weinstein. Trial still slated to begin January. Six twenty twenty years us. I reach out to the lawyers yesterday. And they said there is no reason to think otherwise. Okay I'm pretty confident it's been put off so many different times and you know the beginning. January is a great time to try a big case. It's after the holidays in all. It's actually the first day back that January six say back fresh jersey. They're all rested. Everyone you know is not distracted. And you're ready to go. I hope so far Weinstein Sake okay so some big news this week and that is there were some outstanding motions filed by the defense the prosecution replied to them. You can check out court. Tv DOT COM for my Weinstein articles and updates and the judge Burke Justice Burke just filed his decision on these motions. So I want to give you vincent and the listeners updates. So the defense tried to get the predatory sexual assault charges dismissed. And you're GONNA love this. Is Life in prison right correct? You're gonNA love they tried. I wanted test your knowledge from laws goal. They tried to get this dismissed because it violates. Are you ready? The EX post facto clause of the constitution. Oh you the old style video. The EX post facto Colosio. The constitution very. Yeah I relied upon that many times as a as an attorney when I worked at the firm of guerrilla burnaby guilt feeling checking Stewart Mills theme. And we would rip whenever we they haven't yet so I've all right. So here's the bottom line is and this is Annabel your basically very simple. They're saying you can't charge him or have any charges connected to an incident that allegedly occurred in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine hundred ninety four because this statute was enacted in two thousand six rose to the statue came out after the incident so you ex post facto and there's like a million cases that support that now so that was denied but I have to say funny story so I had a client ones and I've done When they do represent themselves so I was standby counsel. Oh so you were backing up. The person who is a really sad guy last whatever but he was like ex post facto like. It's our defense. He was like. We're GONNA crack this case wide open with ex post facto. So I was like what about self defense? What about I know? Insanity what diminished capacity. He's like no seema. Listen I got it I got its ex post facto all right. Needless to say the listeners can figure out how that case went for me. So okay so moving. On that was that was listened. That was emotion. We expected loses one. I'm keeping score okay. Well you're only going to have one side of that. Paper filled my friend. Okay so the next big update. Is that the defense was saying that the any counts related to the Annabella CIARA accusation from one thousand nine hundred nineteen ninety-four should be dismissed because it didn't provide the defense with fair notice and listen. We we talked about this. The the prosecutors went through extraordinary efforts to pin down a date in that winter time period that Annabelle your claims Harvey Weinstein raped her. They couldn't and the and the judge Said No. You can question you can ask all this is for testimony and of course we have number two. Denial denial so stu nothing prosecution. Yes exactly okay so another Oh this is this is. This is going to be great. Okay so the defense said that motion to suppress from a search warrant with respect to three counts should be those should be suppressed so we shouldn't hear those emails so there were two emails from his working now and one was g mail. Okay so the work email they said no standing. You've no standing for that. So that's that and the personal email which the judge actually cited all three email accounts to be under this argument that it was not overly broad and lacked probable. Cause that in fact that warrant did have probable. Cause so as you're coming in all of them all thought the defensive saying all these emails are going to help them. I guess not there must be some. Yeah exactly so. This is interesting. You're absolutely right because that is what the impression I got was that there were emails to help the defense at least with respect to one accuser. So what's your? How are you keeping score now? Is Nothing Prosecution? Okay thank you sir. Okay next motion and this is also another big one. The defendant defense team rather they've requested the personnel file of detective to Gaudio. And this is the detective in full. Transparency I represented him as a witness. Nothing no wrongdoing allegation but prior to come into court TV. I've represented him when I worked for why. Pd So totally coincidental anyway. So he was. It came out that he coached one of the original complaining. Witnesses Lucia Evans broker and the prosecution conceded and that was dismissed. So Lucia Evans is no longer a complaining witness. That's fair for this trump right so but they want DIGOS personnel files with respect to some of the allegations in this case. And they also ask. This is really interesting they wanted to do. What's called a Franks hearing To basically establish that he perjured himself in a warrant. And what do you think the judge? I think the judge should take a look at those files in camera which means the judge takes a look at it to see if there's anything relevant without giving it to the defense and makes the call. I love that you said that because I think that's such an option that we don't really talk about a lot and I'm glad that you did. Yeah I'm so glad that you brought that up okay. Well he's not going to do that. And so what do you think the score is? Nothing denied all right. So that's not happening now one now okay so just a few more this and this is all like really really big big important stuff for this trial. It's getting US ready. It's getting you guys ready and of course court. Tv We will have it around the clock Weinstein all gavel to gavel okay. So and we talked about this before and that is the prosecution gave notice that they are calling a forensic psychiatrist Dr Barbara Zip who is decades of experience to talk about Rape Trauma Syndrome now. The defense was given notice of this Dr Testifying for the prosecution in April as April. Twenty six twenty nineteen when they had this closed door hearing about other accuser witnesses. That will testify. You've noticed they've had plenty of notice. The defense has asked to preclude or limit her testimony and the judge said. Listen this type of expert. Testimony has been around for now more than thirty years. I thought it's only been around fifteen. It'S AROUND FOR THIRTY YEARS. It's acceptable in the community. So yeah it's coming in plus the defense asked you're GonNa love this. The defense asked for the court to impose a sequence for testimony. They want like choreographed. Yeah that's not happening. What do you know It goes to the prosecution? They call a witness when they want the score five. Nothing okay okay so okay. I think I have one more. Oh and this is a doozy. You'RE GONNA love this 'cause you remember this. We talked about this on your show so remember that the defense wants to call a doctor. Deborah Davis is social psychologist to talk about these really interesting things like memory. Suggestive as well as misinterpretation of sexual consent communication and a phenomenon. This is a phenomenon. It's known as voluntary unwanted sex. That's so it's like an oxymoron. Okay so this is the last. This is the last big ticket item of the judge's ruling. The judge has now what the defense was saying. Okay she should be allowed to testify. That's it prosecution was like no. She shouldn't be allowed to testify. Plus if you're going to think about it we WANNA hearing so we WANNA hearing to determine the scientific reliability in these amongst the community of social scientists okay so the judge went a different route. He saying yes. She can testify on basically memory all about memory and how memory works including post events adjusted suggestion. I suggested ability you get the drift right. However the judge said he will not allow this social psychologist. Dr Deborah Davis to testify about issues of memory specifically for sexual or potentially sexual interactions including sexual consent. Communications voluntary unwanted sacks. That's out responses to sexual assault. That's out including such topics is failure to report. That's out delayed reporting continuing contact with the alleged perpetrator. That's bad for the defense. So you get the drift. So the judge no hearing but half-and-half out it's three quarters out for the for the defense okay given that one to the prosecution as well. So what's our final score six? Nothing and that's what we have going into the Harvey Weinstein case for prosecutors. Trust me not an easy case for prosecutors at all but of course we'll be covering here on court. Tv Like we cover everything. We're on television. You can go to court. Tv DOT COM as well. And don't forget rescan your digital antenna so you graze GATT all the time free scan with a remix speaking time. I think we're at a time. We are so. Outta time today. Thank you Vincent Alright. We'll see this. Podcast is a production of TV. Go Court TV DOT COM for more content trials on demand and to find out how to watch court TV in your area.

attorney prosecutor Curtis Right murder Harvey Weinstein Dr Theresa Cevers DOT COM partner Robbie Chowdhury Court of Appeals US Hammer Rogers mark sievers Jimmy Vinnie Mark seaver Nordea Dr Theresa Savers
Full Episode: Friday, November 2, 2018

World News This Week

23:29 min | 3 years ago

Full Episode: Friday, November 2, 2018

"From ABC news world news this week. Chuck Sivertsen in New York. Coming up the synagogue shooting fell. Going to. President Trump sending troops to the border. When you look at some of the people within the caravan. Yeah, I think it could be considered an invasion of our country. We can't have airline crash off Indonesia. Why would a perfectly good airplane? Go down from five thousand feet. Another World Series win for the Red Sox. People in events that made headlines when world news this week continues. Nothing could prepare you for an experience like this, particularly religious leader to to see your flock slaughtered rabbi Jeffrey Meyers with the tree of life synagogue in Pittsburgh on the horrifying moments as a gunman opened fire during Saturday worship. I really thought. I was dead. The assailant mowing down eleven congregants swat officers descending on the tree lined streets of squirrel hill. ABC's? Matt gut men at the scene the first nine one one calls coming in at nine fifty four AM people inside the tree of life synagogue, frantic. They were under attack one caller south. They may have been shot. Members of three congregations in sign a baby naming ceremony about to get underway. Now a gunman had entered the house of worship. Fire. According to the FBI the alleged gunman forty six year old Robert Bowers hurling words of hate against Jews, even as he murdered them. One any of the live win the first two police officers in counterbalance, they say he was wielding an air fifteen ROY full. And firing at us and. The officers wounded and the gunman retreating farther into the synagogue swat team enters discovering the scene of unimaginable horror, eleven people. Three women and eight men did nesh medics rushed to evacuate. The wounded officers. Climbed to the third floor were Bowers has fled. Came next and all out done battle Bowers shot and surrenders. About. The police say he was renting they're committing genocide to my people I just want to kill Jews. Authorities say in addition to that a are fifteen dollars had three handguns with him and used all of his weapons the alleged gunman forty six year old Robert Bauer shot multiple times. Now faces federal charges including hate crimes. The could get him the death penalty to tales from ABC's Aaron Katersky. Robert Bauer had no prior arrest record, but his record on social media painted chilling portrait of hate Jews are the children of Satan, he posted on gab a site popular. Among fringe groups who believe mainstream social media sites censor their views. The FBI said Bowers was not on their radar and the weapons he used in the attack appear to have been legally purchased. In Pittsburgh and around the country vigils remembering those who lost their lives and funerals for the victims all week the president visiting Pittsburgh Tuesday controversial encounter as we hear from ABC news senior White House correspondent Cecilia Vega. President Trump and the first lady his Jewish son in law, Jared, Kushner and daughter, Ivanka traveled to the synagogue rabbi. Jeffrey Meyers there to greet them. The first family following the Jewish custom of leaving stones to honor the dead, but a much different trip than the White House had planned just half a block away neighbor shouting down the president nearby more than a thousand protesters carrying signs saying words matter stopping courage ING hate, and you are not welcome in Pittsburgh until you fully denounce white nationalism. The mayor of Pittsburgh had asked the president not to come until the funerals were over citing security concerns. The White House invited top congressional leaders in both parties to accompany the president leader Mitch. Mcconnell speaker Paul Ryan among those who declined citing scheduling issues, the family of one victim Daniel Stein, also making clear, they have no interest in meeting with President Trump. They were angered by his words when he said armed guards at the synagogue could have prevented the shooting. They had protection inside the results would have been far better Stein's nephew telling us. The president is blaming Jewish people for what happened to them democratic mayor Bill Peduto taking issue with President Trump's idea. I don't think that the answer to this problem is solved by having our synagogues, mosques and churches filled with armed guards. We should try to stop irrational behavior from happening at the forefront. The shooting comes with anti-semitic incidents reported in the US surging up fifty seven percent in two thousand seventeen rabbi Myers who protected his congregants as best. He could with the final word. Love will win out. Hate will not win here again invade our country. You look at that. Almost looks like an invasion. It really does. Look like, an invasion. They can't Asian. Oh, I think so I think when you look at some of them when you look at some of the people within the caravan. Yeah, I think it could be considered an invasion of our country. We can't have it. President Trump speaking with ABC's Jonathan Karl about some four thousand migrants seeking asylum heading north from Central America, still hundreds of miles from the US Mexico border. Mr. Trump ramping up the rhetoric before midterm elections on Tuesday more for maybe new senior congressional correspondent Mary Bruce President Trump now ordering a massive troop surge to the border president. What do you say to your critics say you're fearmongering on immigration, not fear mongering at all immigration, very important subject? As far as the caravan is concerned, our military is out. We have about five thousand eight we'll go up to anywhere between ten and fifteen thousand military personnel up to fifteen thousand military personnel. That's roughly the same number of troops. Serving. Afghanistan. Three times the number deployed to Iraq. And that caravan of migrants fleeing poverty and violence still some nine hundred miles from the US border still in states. The president wants some Democrats in tight raises like Missouri Senator Claire mccaskill tell me embrace the president's top line. The present needs to use every tool at his disposal to make sure the border is not overrun the president. Also, doubling down on his pledge to do away with the right of citizenship for any baby. Born in the United States. I'd rather through congress that permanent, but we can certainly do it through. I I really believe we can do it executive what most legal experts and even Republican House speaker Paul Ryan say that's unconstitutional and in one red state on the border, Texas Democratic Senate candidate Beddoe a rook calls the president's immigration, push pure politics. Tries to to stoke paranoia and fear about a group of migrants were still hundreds of miles weeks away from the US Mexico border. If the even. Make this for I think he's trying to play a upon the worst impulses of this country, the president turning up the heat even more as we hear from ABC news senior White House correspondent Cecilia Vega. Fifteen thousand troops the president says he'll send to the border. He now says they would fire their weapons at the caravan. If migrants row rocks. Anybody throwing stones rocks. We will consider that a firearm. Retired general Martin Dempsey former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff saying that troop deployment, quote, a wasteful deployment of overstretch soldiers and marines would be made much worse if they use force disproportional to the threat they face they won't the president has been hitting the campaign trail hard, including the day of the synagogue shooting now on an aggressive final blitz that has him in eight states for eleven rallies right up through late Monday night who voted who voted. Oh, wow. The president is only going to states. He won in two thousand sixteen places. He still has strong support and states that have critical Senate races in West Virginia. Indiana, Missouri, Montana in Florida democratic incumbent senators are locked in tough reelection battles and the president's hoping to drive Republican turnout and flip those seats. The president's closing argument is centered on immigration, Mr. Trump painting a dire picture at a rally in Missouri on Thursday. To be overrun by massive, a legal aliens and giant caravans you'd better vote. Republican President Trump is sounding bullish about Republican's chances of holding control of the Senate after next week's midterms. He spoke Wednesday in Florida to ABC's chief White House. Correspondent John Carl in his mid term prediction, doing great in the shed at this. You would probably see and say and say, but we're doing pretty well of the Senate. And I think we do pretty well in the house. You know, what else is going to be an interesting evening. The president hasn't focused his attention on the critical suburban districts which are expected to determine which party wins control of the house. Karen Travers, ABC news, the White House pipe suspects. These are will face federal charges in New York. The Florida man accused of sending explosive devices to prominent Democrats critic, sue, President Trump and CNN none exploded. And no one was injured ABC's Victor kendo tells us about another suspicious package. Discover this week also sent to CNN. Investigators descending on an Atlanta postal facility with a bomb. Containment vehicle and remote controlled robots. The package was addressed to CNN headquarters and the FBI says it looks like other bombs mailed across the country last week hours later suspect Cesar sale appearing before a judge chatting with his attorneys. His lawyer says Bill press for forensic testing on the sole fingerprint allegedly linking say to one of the packages. According to a law enforcement source the FBI has compiled. A list that belongs to Caesar CEO of potential targets a lengthy list. That includes celebrities media figures and other politicians, and the FBI has gone down that list every single person on it. If b is looking into an alleged plot to smear special counsel, Robert Muller, according to several reports of women so she was offered money to level made up charges against the man leading the Russian investigation. ABC news chief Justice correspondent Pierre Thomas with that several reports say woman contacted them came into have been offered tens of thousands of dollars to make false accusations of sexual misconduct and workplace harassment against smaller. A rare statement issued in response from special counsel spokesman Peter card when we learned last week of allegations that women were offered money to make false claims about the special counsel, we immediately referred the matter to the FBI for investigation. The Atlantic claims the woman revealed to reporters that she received a call from a man who said he represented known right wing conspiracy. Peddler, Jack Burke. Mun Berkman on social media has in recent days claimed without offering evidence to have damaging information coming soon on Muller. Some of the report is contacted by the woman apparently did not talk to her by phone, but only through electronic communication, and it would difficult is confirming her identity nonetheless in those written communications, the woman said she was rarely in contact with Muller when she worked with him years ago at a law firm, and that he was never inappropriate a second woman who has been identified who spoke to reporters in recent days tells a similar story about being offered payment saying she never had any incomes with the special counsel. These stories were pedal to a number of journalists, including investigative reporter, Ronan Farrow was broken major stories involving high profile men accused of sexual harassment. Divers Indonesia retrieving one of the black boxes from doomed lion air flight, the Boeing seven thirty seven plunging into the Java sea shortly after take-off from Jakarta this week killing all one hundred eighty nine people on board early on ABC news aviation expert, Colonel Steven gathered wondered about the plane sudden fall off the radar. Why would a perfectly good airplane? Go down from five thousand feet all week cruise bringing the shore shiploads of debris and bodybags ABC's. Bob Woodruff is in Jakarta with the latest there, essentially ruling out that this was a terrorist attack. Most likely a technical failure in the country with a troublesome safety record lion. Air flight six ten was a new plane, only, two months and service. One of the most recent versions of the seven thirty seven Boeing says the max aid is the company's fastest selling plane in its history with nearly forty seven hundred orders for more than one hundred customers across the world. Both southwest in America. Airlines have the same plane in their fleets. Boeing issuing a statement saying the Boeing company is deeply saddened by the loss of lion. Air flight JT, six ten adding that the company is providing technical assistance at the request and under the direction of government. Authorities investigating the accident back home a tragic string of bus. Stop crashes. Children hurt or killed in at least five incidents in three days, including Tampa and Tallahassee Florida, central Pennsylvania. A second grader found dead near his house hand rural Indiana. We're a pickup truck driver killed tree siblings. Crossing the street. Here's ABC's Alex Perez in Rochester, Indiana, we're learning the driver who struck and killed three children while they were walking to their school bus had three kids in her own back seat during the crash twenty four year old driver, Eliza shepherd who worked with kids at a local church told investigators as she normally does not travel on this road and says she saw the flashing lights. But did not realize it was a school bus until it was too late. Eight shepherd is charged with three counts of reckless homicide. The siblings. Own coll- says the family had contacted the district about moving the bus stop which sits on a stretch of road where the speed limit is forty five miles per hour. Many times before the school district now saying it will move at bus. Stop this week infamous crime boss, why Bolger died in prison not of natural causes. Authorities investigating. The death is a homicide. ABC's GIO Benitez is in Boston with details. Dignatories Boston mobster Whitey Bolger get wacked behind bars just twenty four hours after being transferred to a new prison in West Virginia. He was found severely beaten. According to the New York Times officials telling the times he was attacked with a padlock stuffed inside a sock on responding to the next Garrity. They have is NPR in progress. One of the key suspects in the killing mob. Hitman, Freddie, Jesus who serving a life sentence at that West Virginia prison for the murder of another member of crime family, a former process. Cuter telling the Boston Globe. Freddie hated Retz Bolger was known as a so called snitch believed to have been an FBI informant who provided information about his rivals. He was also responsible for at least eleven murders. Spending sixteen years on the run with his girlfriend until their capture in twenty eleven in Santa Monica. Vultures attorney now pointing the finger at the Federal Bureau of prisons saying they turned a life sentence into a death sentence one of the victims of Bulger's gang. Deborah Davis killed when she was just twenty six her brother. Stephen speaking with us. Do you feel at peace now with his death very much? So he's way replies. In the dirt. Where we put a lot of people. No final determination. But it appears suicide kill to Saudi sisters whose bodies were found taped together in the Hudson river in New York City their family seeing Tele and Rotana far a year ago, the sisters had alleged physical abuse, and we're living in Virginia shelter for domestic violence victims before they walked away from it in August and ended up here at York September first. Living in high end hotels ordering meals and shopping before their money ran out and why PD chief Dermot chasing the sisters made ominous statements if they would rather inflict harm in themselves who commit suicide than return to Saudi Arabia. Shea said a bystander saw the sisters near the Hudson river the morning their bodies were found they appear to be praying. Aaron Katersky, ABC news, New York. Google employees in New York City this week joining walkouts by Google workers around the world, including Tokyo, Singapore, London and San Francisco over the company's handling of sex misconduct allegations ABC's Alec stone outside of Google headquarters in Silicon Valley. Hundreds of employee's filed out some holding signs red meat to and workers rights are women's rights. Google employees like an win walking out over the treatment of women growing movement of workers who are going to stand for this anymore. The walkouts in reaction to a New York Times article that detailed sexual misconduct allegations against the creator of Google's Android software. Stone ABC news Google protests gain steam last week after New York Times article revealed, the creator Google's Android software. Andy Rubin received a ninety million dollars severance package in two thousand fourteen after the company concluded sexual misconduct allegations against him were credible. Ru. Denies the allegation. Google since revealed forty-eight employs, including thirteen senior managers have been fired in recent years for sexual harassment without giving any of them severance packages. That's ABC's Matt Keller Google headquarters in Mountain View, California. October jobs numbers are out ABC's. Ryan burrow, telling us. It's a strong report employers, adding two hundred and fifty thousand jobs last month better than the two hundred thousand economists expected the unemployment rate holding steady at three point seven percent of five decade, low new job seekers lifted the numbers of Americans with jobs to the highest level dating back to January of two thousand nine average hourly earnings up two tenths of a percent. September numbers will revise down about sixteen thousand jobs. Meanwhile, General Motors is looking to make big job cuts. Details from ABC's. Daria Albinger, about eighteen thousand white-collar workers for General Motors will be getting buyout offers. The move comes the same day the carmaker reported two and a half billion dollar third quarter profit GM says it's performing well but wants to. Continue to reduce costs while the company and the economy are strong. Student protests at the university of Maryland this week following the firing of embattled football coach DJ Durkan just a day after he was reinstated. This after the death of a student athlete ABC's. Mark Remillard tells us university official is leaving now a day after Maryland's football. Coach DJ Durkin was fired in the wake of a player's death. James Brady chair of the university system of Maryland is stepping down. Both departures come after growing discontent with the decision to reinstate Durkan months after the death of Jordan McNair, an offensive lineman who collapsed on the field and later died of heatstroke. In a statement Brady said he had become the public face of the board and its decisions and that his presence, quote will inhibit its ability to move Maryland's higher education agenda forward. Mark Remillard, ABC news coming up. Boston Red Sox fans. Celebrate another World Series win when world news this week continues. So you just woke up your phone is lighting up with headlines and push notifications. And a text from your mom saying, how do I click this? Okay. Maybe that's just me. But if you wanna get up to speed, check out the new podcast from ABC news start here. Literally the ground was shaking. I'm Brad milkey. And every morning, we're going to take you to the stories that matter with fast, fresh insight. Low rubber molar Michael Cohen calling only twenty minutes start here. Listen for free on podcasts or your favorite podcast app. The Boston Red Sox popping champagne in Los Angeles. This week is the team dominating all season long scores the ultimate baseball prize. Again, ABC's Kenneth Whitworth who's in LA. For the fourth time in fifteen seasons with a five one win over the Los Angeles Dodgers. Stands pack with LA celebrities like Dodger's fan, Jimmy Kimmel and his arch-rival Matt Damon? They're supporting the socks with benef- leg along with actress, Leslie, man and husband Judd appetite. 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Hammer Killing Murder Trial - Part 2: FL v. Mark Sievers

Court TV Podcast

44:49 min | 1 year ago

Hammer Killing Murder Trial - Part 2: FL v. Mark Sievers

"The views and opinions expressed in. This podcast are simply that opinions. All are presumed innocent until proven otherwise in a court of law sensitive live topics are discussed. Discretion is advised On this week's court. TV podcast after a long holiday. Weekend again bring you up to speed on the latest in the hammer killing murder. Trial is the prosecution proving its case that marks savers orchestrated the killing of his beloved wife. Dr Theresa Theresa Savers or can the defense offer an alternate theory behind her death and we have updates to other cases that have captivated the nation convicted murderer later on sade an alleged serial rapist. Rb One st this is the court. TV podcast with Vinny Polygon and insieme. Welcome to the Gordy Vodkas. I've seen the IR here with my partner in crime. Vinnie Paldon Alton. Hey partner in crime look at us today. We look like criminals dressed in all black. We didn't plan swimming color for me. That is not one of your concerns in life but it is weird that we came to work dressed. I'm clearly not in the world of crime. Never have have been. I'm anti-crime okay with the disclaimer. I understand I get. I don't want people get the wrong idea. I think I think I walk around and going courtrooms with Pinky rings on and stuff I actually spend most of my career. I like to say having the heartbeat job. I was a heartbeat away from being a criminal right. Ah there's a fine line between a criminal defense attorney and a criminal sometimes but not all the time we need them folks and we love him they they are the foundation of our system of justice. They keep us rolling. Okay take assertion yes not enough all right. Let's get into the case that we're into on court TV and if you don't have court TV get it get a digital antenna rescan it and watch it. It is amazing. That's our day job recovering trial now out of Florida and involves a man named mark. WHO's accused of orchestrating? Love that word orchestrating the murder of his own wife Dr Theresa Cevers and what prosecutors say. He did enlist the help of his best friend in the world. His Best Buddy Curtis Wright who also was d'appel Ganger who then enlisted the help of his friend. Jimmy the Hammer Rogers and the two of them bludgeoned to death. Dr Cevers while Mark Receivers was out of Florida in another state far away from the scene of the crime. Rogers has been convicted. Right and right Curtis right took a deal and is the key witness against mark cevers his his former best buddy and now cevers is on trial with yet. Another d'appel Ganger his lawyer right so initially salie march devers look everybody looks alike look like the man his best friend because they were bald they had go t's sort of the same physique that we were in the same type of glasses and then at trial all of a sudden marked savers loses a little bit of weight shaved the Goatee and now looks like his lawyer Craig. He's naughty is he's a chameleon. I think he adapt wherever trying. Because if you watch him in court he's really trying to adapt to. Let's say the emotional testimony in the gruesome testimony so his face makes these weird convulsions and contortions and he's trying he's trying so hard to get the tears out he's trying so hard and it's not coming you know I should teach him this trick okay. It's a trick on how to cry. You Take Vassil Lean and I know this I also also an Indian dancer you know this and so what some of the teachers used to do. Is You put the Vassil. Lean in your bosom. That's your between your boobs okay. And you put in the Bra A- and then you've cold your hand over your eyes and you just squeeze and the water comes out and goes to your eyes and it makes you cry from the vessel Selene vastly advising advising Bassolino sorry slowed by Zine crazy. And that's how and that's how we crazy Indian dances and the dancers from India. Not Native American just wanted to make sure that you're being politically glee incorrect. Now now not things for once in my life right. So I think that keyword you said in describing this defendant which which is what has made him stand out to me. Was the word weird. There's a weirdness factor to all of his mannerisms the way he acts the way he looks everything everything even when he was shackled and walking months ago when our years ago I got arrested everything he does a little weird and it's now coming coming out in the trial through testimony. And let me tell you through so Jimmy. The Hammer Rogers. WHO's been convicted of the murder? Second degree murder at a prior trial his ex-girlfriend testify tailor shoemaker and she testified about some of her observations and the observations took place on the night before Curtis Artis rights wedding which according to prosecutors is the night that marked cevers solicits. His friend Curtis right to commit the murder. which is the night before? Curtis right is marrying his bride. Angie so take a listen as she describes what's going on the night before the wedding. Did you see whether or not there came a time when Mr Right and Mr And on Mr Cevers kind of went Aside and had a a conversation outside of everybody else yes I did you tell the Lazy John With Jerry about that It was the night before the wedding. They had went off into Indian Wayne's bedroom and had a private conversation. was there anyone else in there with them. No okay now. This is where prosecutors are going with. This is that they went into the bedroom alone. The night before Curtis's wedding to have a conversation Shen and the conversation of course prosecutors say is all about a solicitation for murder right correct. Could there be another interpretation of this behavior absolutely Louis. He's having cold feet He needs to talk to his best friend. He's getting married to hug. He needs a hug. A warm embrace saying. Hey Hey man. It's okay. Just do a shy Tequila and just go get married or everything's GonNa be okay. You'll be a good provider. Don't worry she's the girl for you. I don't know what do you people tell each other before. You're getting married. No no I think it could be a completely different direction and this is because of some cross examination Asian. That was shut down by the judge. Threw an objection by the prosecution where the defense was going after Curtis right and his sexuality wildy. Okay you and I have different interpretations. Okay okay I think that the defense attorney was trying to lay the foundation to establish publish the sexual relationship between all of the parties. Meaning the CEVERS as a couple and the right a couple you think it was more more one on one it was it was more about whether or not you know he may entertain the thought of of being with with a man and a a specific man. Mark seaver seating. That's why they went in the bedroom. I don't know I think the defense could make some arguments that they were not soliciting murder. They were making love maybe a year like you look like Curtis writes Bachelor Party and it's a strange defense for the defense to put out there but I mean could it be that we didn't know the result solicitation of murder that night it was a night of passion. I don't know law. Aw Okay so just here let me just do this okay. Now the reason vomiting is because I think if you're GONNA go for somebody don't go for someone who looks exactly that's weird. It's like a twin brother. Would you would you call that perverted. Perhaps I may take listen to more testimony and the reason I'm tying all this together we right now is telling the show maker also testified about what she thought about mark and it came out through cross examination which was kind of weird. But listen to this so you said that you saw Mr right and Mr Seaver go off together is that correct inside or outside I was unsigned nine. Okay and was there anything about Mr Sabres that it was special. Two two year look way I'm in parity was kind kind of a pervert and it really looked as because of it pervert. I love it. It's a new word. Can we just pause for a second. She says says perverting okay. This is like for a defense attorney. Just shoot me in the head. Shoot me in the head and kill me dead. I don't want to live any longer because this moment defines my entire reputation as a criminal defense attorney but then okay then he says. I'm sorry what was that. Could you repeat in the back row. The yeah bought you hear that could you. I'm sorry could you. I didn't hear you and I want you to say it again and this time louder uh-huh and clear. Thank you very much are hurt right. But here's maybe this is some sort of perverted way. The defense can use this okay that okay savers is perverted and they went into the bedroom and it has nothing to do with murder has to do with sexual perversion. And all the things that they were into looking like each other and being together and they're doing all these things that have nothing to do with murder marsupials just was not a murderer trying. Yeah I I understand. This is the defense you need. You need the defense to be right. Having some motive to kill Hill. Dr Theresa. That is what I need a defense attorney. Okay Jess to get there. I have to establish that Curtis right either had had some obsession crush with Dr Theresa or he had a relationship with Dr Theresa or with Mark and was in the way hey put the Kabosh is on their on their bromance romance that was the word for me. No well it could be. I don't know I don't know if it would work. I don't know if it's the truth. I'm just trying to put the pieces together. That are coming out through this trial and I can't do quick because I'm not following where the defense is going what their theory is. And I think it's a big problem. A lot of it has to do with mark sievers being a little bit weird you agree. Yes yes I think. The vast that's why the the listeners have to tune in every day to closing arguments to see your impression of Marcy vers. He's he's so busy busy to be sitting here on. This is a death penalty case. He's one of my favorite things you've ever done and that is so Vinnie is on the anchor desk which is a huge desk folks. We have so much bays vinnie throws rose all his papers all over the place and for Dennis to be writing things down the end. Does this impression of Marx's levers being too busy to be at his own trial to it looks like a huge problem for him however I need to remind everyone it is the most wonderful time of the year right now. I love this time of the year so so wonderful but the the question is is this better for someone who's accused of murder who was facing potential death penalty or is it better for the the prosecution representing the victim in the case. We'll talk about that next so follow court. TV Live over the air uninterrupted. If you're watching television with an antenna just rescan your channels now to add court. TV AND GO TO COURT TV DOT COM to see the exact channel position and more ways to watch court TV in your area. And I remember when I was a prosecutor back in the olden days working in the courthouse and this time a year I it was just a different vibe in the courthouse. Much much different vibe because this is the holidays everybody's kind of in the spirit. Everyone's Kinda got like one eye looking outside Parrot House because your mind is somewhere else absolutely and it's just I. I loved this time of year in the courthouse because like he's at everyone's in a better mood judges aren't on your Tush to try cases because they don't want to put out jurors but there are times when you do have a trial during holidays and for defense attorney it is follow. Follow La la La la La as a prosecutor I got I had a trial might first year in the trial section and I had one it was probably the second week of December as a short trial so it wasn't GonNa bump into the holidays or anything and and all the senior prosecutor just shaking their heads looking at me saying it's not going to end well for you. It's just and and it was one of those. It wasn't the strongest case in that ever handled. There were some issues with it and the jury sorry at the end of the day. Utter those two ugly words not guilty did I. I think I think it was part of the holiday spirit and as a defense attorney you have to play on that I am not kidding. You vinnie I would wear red and green. I'd wear like winter white. I would inject the word Christmas like subliminal like Oh this is my client John Doe Merry Christmas just and You know he's being accused of robbery. Happy Hannukah and you just you do whatever it takes you have to play up on their sympathy. You have maybe like the defendants kids. All dress up in their cute little Christmas outfits in the Front Rows Jerry can see them during the era. Whatever it takes this this is real and it's in right now here on court? TV where this case and this is a death penalty case that is like butting up against the holidays. They worked before Thanksgiving and continued after Thanksgiving. A and they're working and I think it's a potential problem for prosecutors. But what do you think. Because we're not okay. We're the Thanksgiving time of the year but not charge actually like right at Christmas. Well here's what I thought that was great for and I want to say great for both sides because the days leading up to Thanksgiving people are so stressed people who cook those are people who aren't me so people who cook who aren't let me those people they listen to have legitimate concerns right because you have to get to the store certain time you have to buy Turkeys at a certain time so they thaw aw and the potatoes and all these peeling situations all these tasks need to be accomplished. The judge Judge Kyle was very cognizant of that he let people go early on the Tuesday and Wednesday before Thanksgiving so it he he brought them also back in a better spirit. The concern I think here for prosecutors prosecutors the closer we get to Christmas because the penalty phase so if CBS's convicted and then we go into the death penalty multi phase. How how hard is it to sentence someone to death as jer like agree to death and then couple? Oh that with more stocking stuff. Yeah exactly yeah. I don't think I honestly think it is a real thing. I think it'll be a real problem. If they get the conviction and go out of the penalty phase. I think they have no chance because like everything you hear about the holidays like all the movies everything. It's about forgiveness it's about loving. Your neighbor is about charity. It is about giving so these are these are ordinary because I found bound around this time of year judges because we would go ahead and do sentencings and violation of probation and all these hearings. Who wouldn't necessarily do trials the week of around these other types of hearings where people would be sentenced and inevitably even the judges who were had the had the reputation of being really hard? Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah would be soft this time of year violation of probation Let's give him one more chance. Oh that's a good point. You know so so oh you know what a lot of times to sentencing. So that's a really good point. You're just reminded me of so a lot of judges. I know where they would allow. The defendant have remained at liberty to stay out until after Christmas so after Christmas in January. Just the holidays. Can we keep them out. We'll come back in January. It may be they come back. Maybe they don't. Sometimes I wouldn't come back if I if the judge was like. Oh Yeah Sima just come back on January. Sure thing no problem judging but I be so oh I call I go straight to the airport on a flight the Air India and you would never see me again. It's difficult being a prosecutor making those arguments about having someone case me down. In Mumbai. Tactic Lakers Christmas in Mumbai. There is I know there is but but I believe this is a true problem for prosecutors if we get to the penalty phase. But it's just part of what happens every year this time of year in courtrooms across America. Okay well we're still going to be debating the holidays throughout the season but coming up next. I want to talk about the podcast. That started all podcasts broadcasting a serial podcast and the subject of that podcast odd non Siad. What is happening with his case? Now we'll talk about that next danced for more court. TV WATCH IT ON CABLE OVER THE EAR ROKU or go to court TV dot com and stream live gavel to gavel coverage. Catch up on the big moments from our current cases and relive some of court. TV's most historic trials court. TV your front row seat to justice Vinnie Vinnie. We have gotten so lucky to get this court. TV podcast. And I think it's all because of the podcast that really started the craze. And that was the serial podcast absolutely. I remember where I was when I first hear about heard about it and as I said I really don't eat cereal. I'm I'm not that into his carbs. Folks are these cars and then I found out what it really was. I was like Oh. That's right my right my alley so I understand understand it. And it's because these stories are unbelievable and sometimes people don't believe what happens in the course of investigations and prosecutions and appeals and everything else else but it did pave the way force it paved the way for this podcast and they'd certainly pave the way I think for the relaunch of court. TV because this podcast was everyone obsessed with true crime it got the masses interested in the Nitty Gritty Brady of the law which I think in the original court. TV wasn't there as much as the way we're doing it now. I think the audience like folks listening Out Much more sophisticated educated and they understand it and allows us to go even deeper into the weeds. So I love yes okay. Let's let's tell everyone one. We have some updates on the subject of the serial podcast. His name is non sade and he was convicted of killing his ex girlfriend. Hey Manley back in nineteen ninety nine. They were in high school and fast forward to Who who sometime in the podcast come on twenty four team but before that his family friend who's also an attorney? Robbie Chowdhry Rob Yo went to A reporter that she knew followed courts and Crime and that was Sarah Kane and Sour Kanungu. She was then part of the NPR family this American life. What have you so robby wanted some reporter to get interested? In this case. Because of odd non on has always maintained his innocence always maintained citizens so she got Sarah Kane involved and Sarah and her team investigated it it and through that investigation. We we were witness to that investigation because it was all played out in the serial podcast and then from the serial podcast. I just became this massive worldwide obsession. Right it had some impact on the actual case to it did have an impact on the actual case so for instance There were a lot of lawyers that just that really kind of devoted their time. So Rob your child three again. Family friends she was always a part of it but then she got two two other very well. Known Lawyers Really Brilliant Lawyer Susan Simpson. She's a lawyer based in DC and Colin Miller. He is a professor. He's base in South Carolina. And just so everyone knows they are a part of this podcast. That kind of took over where Sour Canuk left off. And that's undisclosed so the bottom line is he's trying to get a new trial. In February of Twenty sixteen. There was a post conviction hearing held to determine determine whether he was going to get a new trial and those are the basis. What was who's the main focus and reason they say this? This man deserves a new trial ally and her name is Asia McLean. I saw her. I was just a few feet away from her every single day. She testified during Matt hearing and I found her to be credible and washy during the during the initial trial. Here's she was right there and and she actually was sending letters to his defense attorney saying. Hey he was with me in the library. And the defense attorney just didn't pursue it didn't pursue now did didn't decline odd non tells attorney. Listen I didn't do it. I was with the whole time the whole time. He has maintained his innocence offense but the lawyer about the alibi witness. Yes I yes I okay. So here's the interesting wresting thing he did. He has always maintained his innocence. He did but I think because of his age he was a high school student. I think because I of his his family from Pakistan. They're not from here. I think there was a lot of issues where he was not as outspoken to his lawyer at the time in what is he like seventeen years old understand artist so they go to this hearing. This is in February twenty. Sixteen and this. This was strange because he didn't the judge said okay. You can have a neutral but it really wasn't based on the alibi it was Based on this entirely different claim that his trial attorney was ineffective because because she did not cross. Examine the state's cell tower expert. Okay okay now I will explain this better. This is Colin Miller so I interviewed him for court. TV Let's take a listen. Factually speaking we have these. These two phone calls at seven nine and seven sixteen pm on the data. Emily was murdered and They Ping Tower. That covers Lincoln Park in Baltimore Maryland. And that's eventually where Amy's body is found one slater and the issue is this Aegean T- disclaimer. That comes along with with the cell tower records in this case that says incoming calls are not reliable for determining location status essentially. There are many issues back at that point in time with incoming in kings. Sometimes they would bring the phone of the collar as good as the person received a call for a variety of reasons are unreliable answer Cristina. Gutierrez didn't use that disclaimer. To Cross examine estate sauter expert at trial. Okay so that's the essence of what Joe. His phone is hanging at the scene. Where the bodies found? That's the state's evidence that's what the state claimed. But there was this eighteen fax cover sheet which I even have a copy of and it basically saying that they're they're not reliable for determining location. Incoming calls are not reliable reliable so this would be. A bad coincidence. Is what you're saying. What's a bad coincidence? That the the unreliable information just happens to pinpoint his phone at the scene where the victim's bodies well VAT that well that's what the prosecution's theory is. But here's the other problem with the defense theory that it's that the defense attorney did not cross examined. I'm the expert on that fax cover sheet which she had okay so number one number two is. There's also some discrepancy between weather. His phone was with his friend. Okay so that would be a suspect. Then his friend and testified against him and that was J. right so that what was strange about this. Hearing was the alibi witness testified and the judge didn't rule based on the alibi witness because of the phone phone ringing because the judge is basically saying that the alibi witness didn't fit into the prosecution's time line. Okay it's it's a lot different time right right at the time of the alleged murderer that prosecutors say exactly so that makes us but he but he won he won at that level but in the in the higher court he did not win he lost so then they're the team decides to go to the United States Supreme Court and the United States Supreme Court said we're not listening to this. We're not hearing so they didn't they. Didn't decide on the merits. They take up the case. Gordon take up every case even if it's like the biggest podcast ever exactly exactly so now this is where we are today so today. The Court of Appeals of Maryland is saying that we can listen to this case based upon the post conviction hearing that your post conviction lawyer did not bring up the cell phone evidence as an issue. So it's not over for it's not over. It is not over okay so and this is where it gets and this is also it bothers me a lot because the lawyer at the post conviction inhering. Justin Brown was fantastic. His partner was I mean they were amazing. This hearing lasted I was four or five days and it was probably you better than most trials. I've watched witnesses. It was. It was incredible but okay so this is where we are now the odd non cya. It's not over over. He can go back to the State Court because the court of Appeals of Maryland. Found if if he has to say that he waved his cell tower claim based based upon his post conviction council so in in essence he has to say the post conviction attorney was ineffective because they didn't bring up the cell phone claim. They were only really going with alibi. Wow because the judge in that hearing ruled on the how ruled on the Alibi but but said Oh you should have kind kind of gone with the cell phone. Okay can I just take a step back. How many times can you claim ineffective assistance of counsel like every lawyer? This guy gets is bad and his wrong and doesn't get it becomes a primary and this is what the judge says and this is what odd would have to say. If my post conviction council included the cell tower claim in my I post conviction petition I would have been awarded a new trial and he would have been awarded new trial because the judge in that case Judge Welch Said said he would. But it's too late now. No now they can go back to State Court cell phone claim. Wow Okay so here's one thing it's another thing podcast exactly. This is the other thing okay. There's another way he can do this. And that's file a petition for rid of Habeas Corpus in Federal District Court but this is is really difficult because to get this he would have to prove not just claim prove actual innocence right the Habeas Corpus. My father was a federal judge. There were just piles piles and piles and piles of them and they would go through them. The law clerks would fair through all of them and it's an absolutely difficult difficult burden of that you have. I think they're better off going to state court. Absolutely I think so especially the judge already ruled on the. Yeah okay so I just want to. Before that odd nuns always as maintained his innocence we also spoke to Robbie a child three and this is Robbie a- talking about What has happened since that? Hearing in two thousand sixteen and how odd non has maintained his innocence he has only ever maintained his innocence. He was has offered a plea deal last year by the Attorney General and he turned down he said I cannot stand up in a court of law and take responsibility for something. I didn't do do the state at this point. I guess is feeling like there's a chance we could lose their offering him some sort of a plea. He's not gonNA take well. This is before so the state offered him some sort of plea at some point he said No. This is something I cannot do. This was a guilty plea. He'd have to admit that he actually did it. Yes how about the old Alfred plea where you take deal but you don't actually have to say you did it because I've seen that before you know the other podcast staircase. Yes Michael Peterson. Okay Well Robbie and and I we've been talking about the Alford plea four years now. Let's take a listen to what Rodriguez said about an Alford plea quickly. Wouldn't require him to stand in front of a court of law and say I committed this horrific crime. You know one thing don set to me he said you know it's not that I would be admitting to just killing hiring somebody. He's a guy would be admitting that I committed this horrific way. I pull land it. I stalked her. I hit her body. I I did all these for him. The crime is so heinous and so it was not worth his freedom. He but if it was an ultra plea I would advise them to take it always have to take the Alfred. Because you're not a big thing thing you're just getting out of prison premium behind you still have a conviction. Yeah put it behind you. You're putting it anyway now. I just I hate the idea. I listen I agree you know I I I met mom. This is what you do you either rather take the Alford plea and then you make documentary and you go out on the circuit and you plead your case to the Court of Public Opinion About your innocence. Even though you took the Alford plea or you can come on court. TV and do that absolutely absolutely. It's fastly so this case is not over and I just I really hope I have to put it out there because I really hope I got all of the facts and the circumstances correctly. I'm sorry it's just. It's it's overwhelming and confusing to me and it's been now you know I've been following this case for so many years it all I when I think back to the hearing I think about Asia. McLean I think about the fax cover sheet of that. At and T. disclaimer. And it's all just it's but the bottom line is for people who are following this case. It's not over yet. It's not over but it's not about the alibi. It's about the cell phone tower. Exactly thank you for single you. You always you always bottomline things from appreciate that okay so another big case that we are following and this this is our court. TV Obsession and and that's the Harvey Weinstein trial. We have some updates talk about that next so follow court. TV Live over the air uninterrupted. If you're watching television with an antenna just re scan your channels now to add court. TV AND GO TO COURT TV DOT COM to see the exert channel position and more ways to watch court TV in your area. We have some updates on the Harvey Weinstein trial still slated to begin January. Six twenty twenty. I reach out to the lawyers yesterday and they said there is no reason to think otherwise. Okay I'm pretty. Confident has been put off so many different times and you know the beginning of January is a great time to try a big case. It's after the holidays and all it's actually the first day back in January say back fresh jurors. They're all rested everyone. Everyone is not distracted. And you're ready to go. I Harvey Weinstein Sake. Okay so some big news this week and that is there were some outstanding sending motions filed by the defense the prosecution replied to them. You can check out court. TV DOT COM for my Weinstein articles and updates and the the judge Burke Justice Burke just filed his decision on these motions. So I want to give you vincent and and the listeners. Some updates so the defense tried to get the predatory sexual assault charges dismissed. And you're GONNA love this. This is the one that way life in prison right correct. Okay you're GONNA love okay. They tried and I wanted to test your knowledge from law school. They try to get this dismissed because it violates are you ready the ex post facto clause of the Constitution Asian. Oh yeah the old style. Ex post facto clause of the constitution says I relied upon that many times as a as an attorney when I worked at the firm of guerrilla Berbie Tricky Stewart knoll Stein and we would wear ripped up whenever we needed so all right. So here's the bottom line is this Annabel's your so basically very simple. They're saying you can't charge him or have any charges connected to an incident that allegedly occurred in one thousand nine hundred nine hundred ninety four because this statute was enacted in two thousand. Six rose statue came out after the incident. So no you can't ex post facto and there's a million cases that support that no so that was denied but have to save funny story so I had a client wants and I've done When they do the represent themselves? So I was standby counsel. Oh so you were backing up the person yes yeah. It was like a really sad guy who's harmless whatever but he was like like ex post facto. It's our defense. He was like. We're GONNA crack this case wide open with expos facto. So I was like what about self defense. What about I don't know insanity sanity? What about diminished capacity? No Sima Listen I got it. I got its ex post facto. Alright needless to say the listeners can figure out how that case went for me so okay so moving on that was that was listed that was emotion. We expect loses one. I'm keeping score okay. Well you're only going to have one side of that. That paper fills my friend. Okay so the next big update. Is that the defense was saying that the any me counts related to Annabella CIARA accusation from one thousand nine hundred nineteen ninety-four should be dismissed because is it didn't provide the defense with fair notice and listen. We talked about this. The the prosecutors went through extraordinary efforts to pin down a date in that wintertime period. Annabella Sierra claims that Harvey Weinstein raped her. They couldn't and the and the judge judge said. No you can question you can ask all this. This is for testimony and of course we have number two. Denial denial so as to nothing prosecution. You you yes exactly okay so another Oh this is this is this is going to be okay so the defense said that motion to suppress from a search warrant with respect to three email accounts should be those should be suppressed so we should hear those emails so there were two emails from his work. Email and one was as g mail. Okay so the work email they said no standing. You've you've no standing for that. So that's that and the personal email which the judge actually cited all three email accounts to be under this argument that it was not overly broad and lacked probable cause that in fact that warrant did have probable cause your meals are coming in all of them all okay. I thought the defensive saint all these emails are going to help them. I guess not there must be signed blatant. Yeah exactly so this is interesting. No you're you're absolutely right because that is what the the impression I got was that there were emails to help the defense at least with respect to one accuser. So what's your. How are you keeping score? Now is three nothing UH prosecution. Okay thank you sir. Okay next motion and this is also another big one. The defendant the defense team rather they've requested the personnel file of detective do Gaudio and This is the detective in full transparency. I represented him as a witness. It's nothing no wrongdoing allegation but prior to come into court TV. I've represented him when I worked for PD. So totally coincidental anyway. So he was. It came out that he coached one of the original complaining. Witnesses Lucia Evans broke. Okay and the prosecution conceded and that was dismissed so Lucia Evans is no longer a complaining witness. That's for for this right so should happen. So but they want DIGOS personnel files with respect to some of the allegations in this case and they also asked. This is really interesting they wanted to do. What's called a Franks hearing To basically established that he perjured himself in a warrant. And what do you think the judge said. I think the judge should take a look at those files in camera. Moreau which means the judge takes a look at it to see if there's anything relevant without giving it to the defense and makes the call. I love they. You said that because I think that's such an option in that we don't really talk about a lot and I'm glad that you did. Yeah I I'm so glad that you brought that up okay. Well he's not going to do that. And so what do you think the score is ask before nothing denied all right so That's not happening now. Numbers one now. Okay so just a few more and this is all really really really big big important stuff for this trial. It's getting US ready. It's getting you guys ready and of course court. TV We will have it round. The clock Weinstein Instinct gavel-to-gavel. Okay so we talked about this before and that is the prosecution gave notice that they are calling a forensic a psychiatrist. Dr Barbara Zip who has decades of experience to talk about Rape Trauma Syndrome now. The defense was given given notice of this doctor testifying for the prosecution in April April. Twenty six twenty nineteen when they had this closed door hearing thing about other accuser witnesses. That will testify. Let me have noticed. They've had plenty of notice I The defense has asked to preclude or limit limit her testimony and the judge said. Listen this type of expert. Testimony has been around for now more than thirty years. I thought it's the only been around for fifteen. It's been around for thirty years acceptable in the community so Yeah it's coming in plus the defense asked you're gonNA love this. The the defense asked for the core to impose a sequence for the testimony. They want it like choreographed. That's not happening. What do you think it goes to the prosecution? They caller witness when they want. What's the score five? Nothing okay. Okay so I think I have one more in this is a doozy. You're going to love this 'cause you you do you remember this. We we talked about this on your show so remember that the defense wants to call a doctor. Deborah Davis a social psychologist August to talk about these really interesting things like memory suggests ability as well as misinterpretation of sexual consent communication and a phenomenon. This is a phenomenon known as voluntary unwanted sex. So it's like an oxymoron. Okay so this is the last this. The last big ticket item of the judge's ruling. The judge has now okay. So what the defense saying okay. She should be allowed to testify. That's it bottom line. Prosecution was like no. She shouldn't be allowed to testify. Plus if you're going to think about it we WANNA hearing so we WANNA hearing to determine the scientific reliability in these exempted amongst the community of social scientists. Okay so the judge went a different route out. He saying yes. She can testify on basically memory all about memory and how memory works including post events adjusted suggestion gestion suggest ability. You get the drift right however the judge said he will not allow this social psychologist colleges. Dr Deborah Davis to testify about issues of memory specifically for sexual or potentially sexual interactions including including sexual consent communications voluntary unwanted sex. That's out responses to sexual assault. That's out a I including such topics as failure to report. That's out delayed reporting continuing contact with the alleged perpetrator her. That's bad for the defense. So you get the drift. So the judge no hearing but half-and-half out I. Oh I think it's like three quarters out for the for the defense okay. I'm giving that one to the prosecution as well. So what's our final score. Six nothing vague. And that's what we have going into the Harvey Weinstein Stone. Easy case for prosecutors. Trust not an easy case for prosecutors at all but of course we'll be covering in here on court. TV Like we cover everything we're on television. You can go to court. TV Dot Com as well and don't forget rescan digital antenna so you graze GATT all the time free scan with remix speaker tyler through Grad time. We are so outta time today. Thank you Vincent all right. We'll see you this. PODCAST is a production of court. TV COULD COURT TV DOT COM for more content trials on demand and to find out how to watch not in your area

attorney prosecutor murder Curtis Harvey Weinstein partner Hammer Rogers Vinnie Vinnie CEVERS Jimmy Curtis Wright Robbie Chowdhry Dr Theresa Theresa Savers Court of Appeals India Vinnie Paldon Alton Maryland Colin Miller Dr Theresa Cevers
The Academy Awards and the Lost Art of Storytelling

The BreakPoint Podcast

24:07 min | 2 years ago

The Academy Awards and the Lost Art of Storytelling

"I'm Shane Morris. Thanks for listening to the breakpoint podcast ideology, trumped art in Hollywood, where has all the good storytelling gone, and what can young Christian filmmakers due to develop their craft. These are the questions Warren Cole Smith and world magazine. Film critic Megan Basham wrestle with as they discussed the film's actors and directors nominated for this year's Academy Awards Meghan will also give us her predictions in. What was truly a less than stellar year at the movies? Here are Warren Cole Smith and Megan Basham. Megan Basham, welcome to the program. And you know, I've been excited for a couple of weeks about having you on the breakpoint podcast just to talk about the ostrich which are coming up this Sunday night. You know, we often the Colson center say politics is downstream from culture. I was talking to I had dinner interestingly last night with Makoto Fujimoro who has written a book called culture care, and one of the things that he said over dinner, and he has made that point in his book is that sometimes the reason we have culture wars is because we don't pay attention to culture care and movies are great culture shaping experience this day and age, aren't they certainly certainly our most popular art medium. Well, that's right. Billions and billions of dollars every year changes hands on tickets, and a lot of the stories that we see in movies are stories that become part of the popular imagination become part of the conversations that take. In the public square. So that's why I get as I said again, I'm really excited to have you on the program what I'd like to do Meghan. Just kind of go down the list of all the major categories. There are so many awards given out by the academy of Motion Picture Arts and sciences that we can't possibly do them. All. In fact, we're going to miss even some of the major wards, but let's start with a few maybe with a particular attention paid to any worldview aspects of that. But let's start with the actor in a lead role. We've got Willem Dafoe Rami Malik for bohemian rhapsody. Bradley Cooper stars born Christian bale for vice and Vigo Mortenson was in green book, any of those performances and or movie stick out to you. Well, yeah, you know, I would tell your listeners that if you saw Christian bale as Batman you probably don't need to see vice because he does exactly the same thing to play Dick Cheney. So if you liked that man, you know, what he does with Dick Cheney so you can skip that, and you should skip it for other reasons, it's a terrible movie. But you know, I was. Get a say kind of laughing that this is a rough year to tie, which we were doing this on some year where there was some better movies. You know, some I liked, but I didn't feel just overwhelmed with love for any particular major nominee this year. So that's been kind of tough. And as I particularly look at the actor in a leading role that stands out that I go. I liked Rami. Malik. I you know, I liked Vigo Mortenson performance. But I would have said, you know, in past years, they wouldn't have been actor in a lead role quality of all of the. Yeah. I mean, did you feel that way? Well, did you know in some with the exception of Rami Malik who of course, played Freddie, Mercury and bohemian rhapsody in some ways this category to me feels like they to use the great lawn from Casablanca, they rounded up the usual suspects. You know, Bradley Cooper, Christian bale be Morrison Willem Defoe. These are all guys that are, you know, let's say middle aged or beyond that have sort of. They've been inside Hollywood for the last ten fifteen twenty years. Right. And and I liked Romney Malik performance. But I actually think when I finally saw it it was, you know, well after the original hype of the movie coming out, and I read your piece, and I think that's what struck me is it could have been so much more complex. But it was a great performance, but it wasn't terribly complex because the script is terribly complex. And by the way, since you mentioned, it a forgive my shameless self promotion here, but I did right along piece on bohemian rhapsody and on Freddie Mercury. The bog repeat, Freddie. Mercury four world. It's on their website right now. So you can go to world MAG dot com and see that. And we'll also put a Lincoln the show notes as well. But since you mentioned vice of being such a terrible movie that your assessment, Meghan. I must push back on that a little bit seems to be at odds with the academy because not only did Christian bale. Get an anonymous for actor in a leading role. But Sam Rothwell got a supporting actor nod for vice Adam McKay got best screenplay for vice. And best director for vice. So somebody likes the movie, even if you don't is that because of the sort of anti conservative ideology of that movie. Yeah. That's the only sense. I can make of it. Because this is a ludicrous done. I mean, it is one step beyond SNL sketch. It's just so ridiculous. And even the supposed- mocking. It does if Cheney and it's not even funny like you, just I have friends who are very liberal that went that was a painful movie wasn't clever. The way thought it was it wasn't. It was just a screed and not a very funny one. So I honestly can only go they just wanted to reward the politics of that movie because I can't make any other sense of it. Yeah. Well, let's move on to the supporting actor role. Adam driver for a black klansman Szalai elite did I pronounce his name rider or close to right Allie? But mar Marschall leaf bring a Richard grant for can you ever? Forgive me. Sam Elliot stars born. And of course, the aforementioned Sam Rothwell for vice any surprises there. No, not really. And I like, Adam driver. I've liked him before. And I had some issues of black clansmen, but I liked him in that role. I liked Marschall Ali in green book. Sam elliot. I don't really understand that one. It's it's a very Sam Elliott Esq performance. And I love him. But it wasn't something that particularly deep in that performance. And Sam ado wonder if the Sam Elliot performance might have been an award for a body of work for a career of work because you know, he's now, I don't know probably seventy ish. And and as you say, it's kind of a Sam Elliott performance. But you know, he's done. He's done sort of yeoman's work for decades. And hasn't you know, maybe gotten the star treatment that he's deserved in the past. So maybe they did it for that. Yeah. I have to think that and I really like him. So, you know, it's not like it would hurt my feelings if he ended up there, but I I wouldn't say that it was. Was that this was his Ord worthy performance as far as Sam Rockwell? He's the best thing in vice even though again, he's only one step beyond will Ferrell in playing George W Bush, so well, I'm a big fan of Sam Rockwell, generally. But yeah, I agree with you about the movie vice is just I think it's gotten all the attention because of its politics and ideology and not for its artistic performance at all. Well, let's move onto a best actress because you know, that's another major category. Glenn Close for the wife. I'm gonna need your help. Probably with another name yell -letes operate GIO for Roma believe, that's correct it pretty close. Okay. Good lady Gaga for stars born Olivia Colman for the favourite and Melissa McCarthy for can you ever? Forgive me, going close is one of those act-. She's you know, kinda become an American icon. And so it's no surprise, you know, any role that she's in she's probably going to get nominated for. But I think there are a couple of. Sizes here. One would be Melissa McCarthy. At least to my way of thinking was a bit of a surprise and Roma y'all Lisa operatiothe in Roma was interesting in part because that's a movie that was on Netflix. It got released on Netflix. And it's kind of an example of how Netflix is shaping entertainment. He stays. Yeah. You know? And they had said that the past couple of years there's been a real resistance from the academy to recognize net flicks movies, and it appears that that between that and BUSTER Scruggs, that's breaking down this year. We're starting to see into be fair. There was so little this year worthy of rewarding that I think Roma probably really benefited from that. And you know, that's a funny movie because I enjoyed it. I thought you know, there's good coffee discussion there, but it was hardly to me a traditional best picture best. Actress, you know, major award winner like we would have seen him pastures. I enjoyed her performance. But it's a very quiet movie. There's not a lot of activity. There's not a lot of. Action. There's there's not even a whole lot of story. I mean, it's a very quiet still film. So there's not nearly as much for her to do as say a Libya Coleman who is chewing the scenery in the favorite in a movie. I didn't like, but I liked her performance best. So I'm kind of hoping it goes to Libya Coleman, very good. Well, supporting actress, and we'll make short work of this one Meghan Rachel vice of for the favorite marina day. Tavira also for Roma Amy Adams, another vice nomination. Emma, stone for the favorite in Regina king for Bill streak could talk again, I would just note that Fleiss getting another nomination and Roma. The Netflix movie another nomination. So again, it's just highlighting kind of what a weird year. It is. Yeah. And this is at least the one category where everybody seems to think this one sewn up this is Regina kings, and she will walk away with it. And I have to admit I have not seen this film yet. But my hearing from people I trust is that she will deserve to walk away with it. Right. I want to don't want to spend too much time on. This category Meghan adapted screenplay, but I accept to mention this that some of the movies that we've already mentioned are in this category of Bill street could talk stars born can you ever forgive me black klansman, but one movie that you just barely mentioned a few moments ago. But let us spend a few more minutes within that is the ballot of BUSTER Scruggs. You mentioned BUSTER trust just a minute ago. A cone brothers film, Joel Coenen Ethan Cohn, again, another movie that was out on Netflix. And it's a strange movie as well. It is not a continuous narrative. It is a collection of short films, which makes it unusual in that way as well. And I really enjoyed the ballot of BUSTER scraps. And to me, that's actually one of the it's an example of the positive development of net flicks. That as you have these extremely big budget. Studio pushes for it seems like all we get now are superhero movies superhero as a western superhero as romantic comedy. That you go. Thank goodness for net. Flicks. And other streaming platforms coming along to give us something creative in different and the ballot of BUSTER Scruggs is that and it's one of those that I go it will not be for everyone. But for me the moment, I heard the strains of cool water the old cowboy pallet I was in. And so I really enjoyed this movie. And it was something different. And I I was really grateful that Netflix was around to give us something like, well, I'll tell you that I didn't love it. But I found it sort of one of those movies at couldn't take my eyes off of as I said there were several I think think there were five shorts that made up the whole, and I found a couple of the shorts very compelling and very interesting. The thing that I like about the Cohn brothers is that they swing for the fences most of the time I mean, even on some of their lights stuff, you know, like, oh, Brother Where Art they? I mean, you know, they they're dealing with deep philosophical in in some cases, theological issues. They're not. Coming at it from a Christian, worldview perspective, of course. But they are coming at some of these questions from a very thoughtful perspective and asking serious questions in serious ways. And I like that about him. Well, and I kind of you know, in BUSTER Scruggs is sort of the dark humor that it has I sort of saw that in some of these little vignettes, you saw a story of an old prospector, and I won't give it away. But it made you think about what do we spend our lives chasing after and the futility the vanity vanities. I agree with you. Yeah. That was the one that actually sort of, you know, I think that was in my view, the strongest of the vignettes. And of course, Tom waits was the star of that one. And I'm kind of you know, anything Tom waits as going to be interesting to me. So yeah. So great. Well, let's move onto the best screenplay because again just real quickly going through the amount of McKay for vice Nick Villalonga and Brian curry and Peter Farrelly for green book that was interesting because. Fairly brothers are folks that are known for sort of bald comedies and green book was anything, but that Afonso coral for Roma which we've already talked about talked about. But the thing that was interesting to me about that was that he sort of got his start as a cinematographer and now he's moved over into the director's chair for several movies now and Deborah Davis in Tony McNamara for the favor, but the one that I want to talk about with you Meghan is first reformed Paul Schrader movie. This was I think the only nomination that a God, it might have gotten some minor nominations. But this was a a movie about a pastor having a crisis of faith. I'm wondering what you thought about it. Yes. Funny, because I go man that I had feelings like the kids say about this movie. I had a lot of feelings. And yeah, my intended to be opposite of a lot of my fellow Christian critics. I really didn't like it. I could see the artistry of it. I could see and to be fair. I actually thought that I'm shocked that Ethan Hawke didn't get a nomination. For best actress because may to me too fantastic performance. Like that actually was a best actor performance if ever there was one this year. I struggled a lot with the story mainly because where some people read an allegory about replacing religious faith with environmental extremism. I felt like Paul Schrader was being a little more straightforward about that. And I struggled with the character of the pastor who really didn't seem to have deep faith at all. Like, I read so many secular reviews were saying this is a man struggling with faith. And I didn't feel that he was as a believer. I went he doesn't go to the word. I don't see him in much prayer. He reads Christian mystics, but he doesn't go to the source, and there were little asides that he kind of dismissed something scriptural like say sexual ethics. He sort of made a little comment about well. I know that's not real sin about his affair. He had with a choir director. And so that sort of thing was really hard. For me to like the film because I went I don't see this. As a believer struggling with faith. I see this as someone who doesn't have faith. And so it's not surprisingly rocked by events. Well, I completely agree with you. And plus again, I don't want to give away the ending for those who haven't seen it. But I found the ending way over the top for my taste, and the other thing that was kind of strange to me about the movie to be honest, though, was just how poorly it did at the box office. I thought within hawk and with Paul Schrader, and with the the buzz that this movie God because you know, they were on everywhere from you know, from entertainment tonight to fresh air with Terry gross, the movie kind of tanked at the box office. What ask you that the really unpleasant movie to watch a top of everything else? Besides a great performance. I would almost rather go get a root canal than sit through that movie. A second time it's out here that painful and. Yeah. And it's not particularly engaging. And and even when it brings up to. There was a few themes in it that I did appreciate you know, when he challenged the mega church abundant life discusses whether that is entertainment or worship, I went. I could get behind a theme like that. It's just buried in so much to me like humanist nonsense. Well, I I completely agree with your assessment Meghan, especially that Eaton hall at didn't get a nomination, I would've I would've traded his posh raiders best screenplay nomination for a best actor nomination for Ethan Hawke any day of the week. You know, the best cinematographer is not a category that you know, really gets a ton of attention. Maybe the actors and the actresses and the directors that usually get a lot of attention. But I wanted to just briefly mention it this year are today with you Meghan because Caleb Denzel got a nomination Afonso Koran for Roma. We've already talked about him as the director of Roma. I mean, the cinematographers directors of Taga fy as they're sometimes called are are slowly becoming more and more important to movies to the point where we're now seeing folks like, for example, Alfonso Koran moving from behind the camera to the director's chair, and I'm wondering if this is a function. Of the role technology is playing in movies these days. Well, you know, it's funny when I saw that about Alfonso Koran. I almost wondered is it also a function of our storytelling is growing weaker in some senses in filmmaking that the image is becoming more important than the storytelling character development. Plotting all of those things that make up story because they're just not as strong as they have been in the past. But that said Roma is almost wholly visual movie. So that is very well deserved. And I think he'll win because that is where I really think he deserves to win because it's so arrestingly visual as a film that you it's beautiful to look at even though. It's very quiet. Well, let's move onto the sort of enclosing here. Meg into the two top categories. Best director and best picture. We've got Spike Lee for black klansman Adam McKay of the aforementioned vice Alfonso Koran, which we who we've already talked about Roma again a couple of. As I might need some help with Powell Powell cow sqi for Cold War and your goose Lanta most for the favorite that. I come anywhere in the ballpark of getting those names. Right. Megan. I think you got them both right. Excellent. Very good. So who do you like, and who do you think the academy will like, you know, it's so funny because I actually started looked at this list and went well, yeah, there's two that are competing for what do I hate more versus? What would I award more? I really disliked vice and I didn't like the favorite at all. It had a real it starts out with a really cheeky tone. And you think it's going somewhere. And then it just evolves into it goes nowhere. It's very historical. I don't want to give away a lot. But it turns into a lesbian love triangle with Queen Anne. And even that they don't it just drops off. It goes nowhere with it. So I thought it was week writing. Even though it starts out so much strong. So for me, I think on this list everyone. Alphonso Koran to walk away with it. I think he will. I will say about Spike Lee, I enjoyed black klansman. But what's funny to me is I get a lot of letters people who get upset with me for not liking Christian films. Sometimes and I feel like what I didn't like about black Klansmen was the same thing. I sometimes don't like about Christian films is that it was so over the top and making its point it just wanted to underline its evangelism in a way that racism is damaging our country that it's bad that racist people are bad at its quality. We don't want to develop in our nation. And that's all true. Just like I would say these Christian movies. Yes. That's all true. And yet you don't leave any complexity for character growth for there are moments in the movie where you go. I don't believe that. I don't believe it would happen like that. And then you look at look it up and go it didn't happen like that. And so that's the thing. I feel a lot in Christian films. And I think Spike Lee did the same thing. So this I hate to say this was really a year where I go. It was really. Just a process of elimination going which one did I at least feel okay about and that would be Roma. I was really bummed. I feel like this year. There was not a lot of great movies to choose from. Well, that may take us into the best picture category. They'll given what you said it is ironic that while we only have five best director nominations, we have eight best picture nominations, and that's impart because a couple of years ago, they changed the rules to allow as many best picture nominations as the kademi felt was deserving. Rather than limited to a finite number. There have been as many as ten as I recall in this category. In recent years only eight this year, and again, just to quickly recap them the favorite black klansman. Vice Black Panther bohemian rhapsody Roma Asaraha's born and green book, I'm guessing that based on what you said before in your process of elimination. You would put Roma as your top pick their Meghan. You know, I actually went because there's a couple in that category that weren't in the best director category. I would just go did I none of them. I would consider great film that will stay on the test of time. And I like to star is born. But you go man MRs are four three iteration of this movie. And it would be nice to see something new green book is a nice old fashioned movie. I think it made people feel good it tells engaging story it it's not the best movie I've ever seen. But it is a good old. It's a solid old fashioned movie and again going along with a review of bohemian rhapsody. I go it is not certainly the best. I section I've ever seen of a famous person and their career trajectory, but it's an engaging movie and the music is so great that you can't help you caught up in that. And the way the music is filmed is good. So I would probably go with one of those three as as my pick. It's hard to say which one because I didn't just love any of them. But Roma will probably win. Well, inclosing Meghan just real quickly. And we've already kind of talked around the edges of some of this. But a couple of key takeaways, especially from a Christian, worldview perspective number one. I'd sounds like that the art in this year's selections is lacking less than it has been in the past ideology and politics, in some cases, for example in by. So he Mian wraps the and others. The favorites seem to again ideology, Trump's artistry any other lessons that we can take away. Well, you know, I I would look at young Christian filmmakers and go. I just see such a huge hole in the market for serious thoughtful spiritually developed films that are well done. And and I always want to say to young would be Christian filmmakers, go out and learn your craft, you know, don't start go. Find me page and immediately run out and start filming spent some years in the trenches. Learn your craft, but I go there is clearly such a need for. Spiritually mature good storytelling? And we just don't see it. And and not and also from non-christians we need that. Clearly, but you go there's just a lot of people. I think who are so intent on sending a message that we're missing out on a lot of good storytelling these days. So that's probably my message as the old classic movie. Goes we've got the greatest story ever told. We just need to learn how to tell a better. It sounds lawn. Yes that well, Meghan Basham. A culture editor with world is always a pleasure to chat with you just on a personal level. But especially in your role is culture editor there into kind of get this update on what's going to happen at the Academy Awards this Sunday night. Thanks a bunch, and I'll be watching right alongside you take care Warren. Thanks for listening to the break point podcast. We hope you'll join us for this year's Wilberforce weekend may seventeenth through nineteenth outside Washington. DC the nation's premier Christian worldview conference come in here from Rick Warren, Johnstone street, Eric Metaxas. John. Lennox star. Parker and many more will also be presenting this year's William Wilberforce award for all you need to know. And to register come to Wilberforce weekend dot org. That's Wilberforce weekend dot org. Don't wait too long. Last year's event was a sell-out. Thanks again.

Meghan Roma director Roma Netflix Megan Basham Willem Dafoe Rami Malik Dick Cheney BUSTER Scruggs Sam Elliot Adam McKay Academy Awards Sam Rothwell Hollywood Paul Schrader Spike Lee Bradley Cooper Melissa McCarthy Ethan Hawke
Exposing the FBI's Covert Role in the January 6 Riots

The Charlie Kirk Show

38:48 min | 3 months ago

Exposing the FBI's Covert Role in the January 6 Riots

"We live in a world where crime is ordinary but in the world that ought to be. Crime is never excused. The fbi needs experts from all backgrounds to create the world that ought to be visit. Fbi jobs dot gov board slash radio. Hey everybody this episode is brought to you by my friends at express. Vpn express vpn dot com slash. Charlie secure your device anonymous. Your online activity protect your action online express. Vpn dot com slash. Charlie help our show out by also helping yourself protect yourself express. Vpn dot com slash. Charlie everybody in this episode of the charlie kirk show we dive deep into the pretty brutal and ugly history of our intelligence apparatus in our country. It's going to shock you just project. Artichoke mean anything to you. What will by the end of this episode. What has our government been doing to infiltrate and manipulate political discussion and organizing in our country. This episode is one of the most important. We've done it quite some time. Texas your friends. And i say buckle up quite often but you'd better buckle up. This is one that is probably the greatest violation of a thought crime. We've ever done here. On the charlie kirk show we are now trading into choppy waters. You see most conservative. Podcasts wouldn't dare talk about this topic. It's kind of the third rail you know it's there you don't want to look at it instead. You wanna talk about low taxes if you really want to find out what's happening in our country actually happening. This is the episode for you. It will push your boundaries and expand your horizons. But what if i told you. We're all living through a massive psychological operation that might be funded by your tax dollars so brace yourself challenge. Preconceptions is made possible by those. That support us at charlie kirk dot com slash support. Charlie kirk dot com slash support. We're going to get a lot of incoming for this episode. We might have to pay a price. But it's worth it so support us and i want to thank. Jeff larry steve cynthia and of course. I wanna thank carl from north carolina for your generous support at charlie kirk dot com slash support feel compelled throughout this episode to support us. That's a place for you. Charlie kirk dot com slash support time for us to go into the unknown and the forbidden. Buckle up here we go charlie. What you've done is incredible here. Maybe charlie kirk is on the college campus. We are lucky to have charlie. Charlie cuts running the white house. Folks i wanna thank jollies. An incredible guy his spirit. His love of this country's done an amazing job building one of the most powerful youth organisations ever created turning point. Usa will not embrace the ideas that have destroyed countries destroyed lives and we are going to fight for freedom on campuses across the country. That's why we are here. Hey guys you guys have heard me talk with my friend. Kelly shackelford before kelly shackelford from i. Liberty is a good person. Look we've talked about court packing. It's the tool of left wing authoritarians who go shabas packed venezuela's supreme court with a socialist cronies and pave the way for his tyrannical regime but now joe biden an american socialists radicals when pack our supreme court with four new liberal justices court. Packing isn't some policy idea to improve our courts. It's a coup a coup to take away your constitutional freedoms and turned america into a socialist country. That's why i liberty institute. The largest legal organization in the nation dedicated defending religious liberty in america is doing something about it i. Liberty recently launched supreme cu dot com. That's supreme cu dot com to serve as a one stop shop in the fight against court packing and helped patriots. Like you learn the truth about what's happening in the courts but more importantly there's a big take action button so you could do something to stop the supreme court coup. So do me a favour support. Kelly shackelford in this and get involved view on it. Defend our god given freedoms and stop the let's court packing scheme head over to supreme cu dot com slash kirk that supreme cu dot com slash kirk. Su r e m e co up dot com. Slash kirk this hour is going to be one of the most important we've done in quite a while and it's thanks to a trail blazer tucker carlson who shocked the world last night on television this is something that republicans do not want to admit but they better wise up. We've been warning about this. We talked about this at great length about a month ago. Now it's about a month and a half ago when the raids were happening at mayor. Giuliani and the targeting of susan. Steve bannon and many others were the criminal. Justice system was being used as a political super pac with jail time that they're in kind. Contribution was not television advertisements instead. It was that we'll just go put your political opposition in jail. Joe biden has a new national strategy for countering domestic terrorism. Now i'm still working my way through this. But here's what's happening after the sixth of january and after what happened at the capitol the democrats realized they were given a gift. The democrats realized that they could under the disguise under the feeder and while wearing the costume of fighting domestic terrorism. They now have a massively funded widely appealing excuse to go eliminate extinguished their political opponents. It's a perfect situation for them. Democrats are gleeful. Because now they get to take pieces off the chessboard. They get to devise a scheme that goes after trump. Supporters donors supporters people in media all under the excuse of countering domestic terrorism. Now of course they're not serious about countering domestic terrorism. If they were they'd go after inc they would go after antifa. They go after the cartel they would go after street gangs you know before of before worrying about trump's supporters. Why don't they worry about the bloods and the crips killing each other over five hundred people a year in the streets of chicago. No but the real problem is you voted for donald trump. We're gonna come after you so tucker. Carlson kind of shocked the world yesterday. And you could tell every journalists. Don't even know how to cover the him. A conspiracy theorist of course because they don't know how else to handle him. Now i'm gonna go through this segment by segment and we're going to tell you exactly what we know and what we think we know and what we what we don't yet know. Those are the three categories. What we know what we think. We know what we don't get no. And this is all based on a story by darren beatty from revolver news revolver dot news. That asks the obvious question. What was if any the federal government's involvement in january six. Did they have unindicted co-conspirators. Did they have people pay roll. That were within the ranks of these groups. And if so why didn't they stop it. What did the federal government no before january six. Why is it that parlor now court. According to new documents that have been declassified not declassified better now public parlor went to the fbi and warn them that there was violence being planned. Why didn't they do anything about that. We'll tucker. carlson goes a step further tucker. Carlson paints a picture that this entire thing was a false flag operation. Now this is a very serious topic. I am not trading on this lightly and tucker does not say he knows this to be definitively true said tucker carlson a friend of mine and a man who's willing to talk about things that no one else is willing to talk about really creates the framework and a compelling starting an argument. The federal government has to give us some answers or else a logical person can say that. There's something here more than what meets the eye. So let's piece-by-piece. He starts with justin tyronn roberts. Tom went how he shot. Five people in the span of one day and he admitted he did it because of his hatred of white men cut thirty nine. But before you play it. Did you hear about this. Justin tyrant roberts who shot five people because he hates white people. Do you think you would hear about a story of a white guy. Shot five black people because he said he hated black people. Why was this not frontline. News cut thirty nine this weekend. Police in columbus georgia arrested a thirty five nine year. Old man called justin entire roberts over the course of a single day. Robert shot five separate people in two different states. We know this happened. Because roberts has admitted he did it he also said why he did it in this confession. Police say roberts quote explained it throughout his life specifically white males had taken from him so he decided to kill them. In one case. Robert roberts walked up behind the white man. A total stranger is he was getting out of his car and shot him in the back by any definition. These crimes of viciousness motivated by race hate. They're not unique in this country. Not by a long shot and so tucker continues by saying and cut forty. An america's leaders are claiming that white supremacy is the greatest threat. We face is that right did did white supremacy is that what is now happening in chicago. White supremacy. let's just go through the chicago statistics your today. Two hundred ninety three people shot and killed one thousand four hundred and four shot and wounded one thousand six hundred ninety seven total shot and three hundred ten total homicides. Almost all of those are black on black crime in two thousand and twenty. They're seven hundred. Nineteen people shot and killed three thousand four hundred and forty five fifty. Five people shot wounded and four thousand one hundred seventy four people total shot and seven hundred ninety two total homicides. None of that involves white people. It's almost all black on black or black hispanic or hispanic on hispanic or hispanic on black is white supremacy. Really the greatest threat facing our country play tape. They're claiming that something called white supremacy and that's never define is the single greatest threat. We face a greater threat than al qaeda or isis. Here's our thoroughly craven attorney general telling us that very light. Today in the fbi's view the top domestic violent extremist threat comes from racially or ethnically motivated violent extremists specifically those who advocated for the superiority of the white race. Who are these people. I haven't met them. And how do you define white supremacy. It's a pretty open ended. Accusation tucker perfectly you now have this accusation that can be basically portrayed on fifty six fifty seven percent of the entire american population. If you're white you're right supremacists unless we prove otherwise and therefore we get the entire national security apparatus to be able to spy on you infiltrate your groups audit you be able to storm down but tear down your door. Indict you in prison use. You never see the light of day but if you are a black murder in chicago according to the new attorney general or whatever the district attorney you can get released on bail within six hours true story if you go burn down a city you could even win an award in fact in minneapolis. Did you know that if you go riot and burn the vice president. Mike bail you out to minnesota freedom fund stroke. She did that last summer. Camera harris contributed to the minnesota freedom fund. Which bailed out terrorists is that the greatest threat facing our country. Do we see rising crime all across the country because of white supremacy are we seeing rising crime against asian-americans because a white supremacy. Now it's mostly black people going after asians actually and the facts show that so when merrick garland says this he says well it's the fbi is view. This is the greatest threat. Do you notice. He never says any numbers. Do you notice a merrick. Garland says that he never says that. Well it's because of this many incidents what he's saying is we're putting into the front of the line because we can and most people say well it's the f. b. i. It must be true and of course the fbi has never done anything wrong. Just as richard jewel wait you. Can't richard jewel died because of a character. Assassination campaign that largely destroyed his entire life. Thanks to the federal bureau of investigation and as you dive deeper and deeper into all this all of a sudden you realize. Hold on a second. They are using this entire racial thing from sixteen nineteen project and the new york times and all of it to try and then create a very creepy national security apparatus supports. The fbi has never done anything wrong. Because waco was perfect waco is great. Children didn't die at waco. No we've always been at war with eurasia not east asia. You're a racist waco's terrific we know what's going on here and it's gotta stop for many americans father's day as a day to celebrate for many others. It's a day to get through because father's day hurts if you don't have a father. The facts are clear. Fatherless-ness drives many bad outcomes in america from teen pregnancy. To incarceration and then slamming. Eighty five percent of youth in prison come from follows homes twenty times. The national average is a path forward from the grim statistics. That's why urge you to order. A powerful new film called the streets were my. If features the journey up three inner city chicago men from fatherless-ness to gangs and from life in prison to prison ministry programs that set them on the road to redemption as lives as productive members of society. See this important inspirational film. The streaming version. Dvd's go to salem. Now dot com and buy a copy or copies for anyone you know. You have a father or doesn't believe in the power of god to change lives go to salem. Now dot com. That's salem now. Dot com back in nineteen seventy five. Something very significant happened. There was a bipartisan consensus. To try to get information and figure out what exactly is happening in our intelligence and security apparatus. Now it's pretty amazing. How little people know about what our government did before the church committee was able to figure this out so this was chaired by an ohio. Senator by the name of frank church. A democrat from idaho and the p- the he was part of a series of investigations which was known as the year of intelligence had a counterpart in the house of representatives called the pike committee. But was what. The committee found was stunning. And we have no such assurances by the way that these practices aren't still going on this looked into the irs looked in the cia and the fbi. This is nine hundred seventy five now. I say this. This shocked the american people to such a fundamental level. It did put the security apparatus in check for at least a decade or an or a half so before that the activist meetings go. This is a conspiracy theory. Let's just start with one. Let's say with a couple of examples you ever hear of operation mockingbird. Operation mockingbird is a very real cia intelligence agency security apparatus program. It began in the early years of the cold war and its goal was to manipulate mass propaganda and news media for government purposes according to deborah davis operation marking mockingbird recruited leading american journalists in a propaganda networks and influence the operations of the front groups. Sound familiar this was discovered that our own taxpayer dollars is doing in the church committee. How about operation coin tell pro otherwise known as the counter. Intelligence program was a series of covert any illegal projects conducted by the fbi aimed at surveilling infiltrating and discrediting and domestic american political organizations. This is all legitimate. By the way you guys can look it up yourself. look coin. Tell pro counter. Intelligence program f. b. i. Records thanks to the church committee shows that targeted groups and individuals the fbi deemed subversive including feminist organisations antiwar organizations civil rights organizations martin luther king junior animal rights organizations the american indian movement puerto rican independence movements. And of course they also infiltrated the kkk over two thousand fbi agents were also active kkk members. Finally this was revealed and it was discovered in the church committee and pike committee that our own government was using their money and their resources to infiltrate political organizations including civil rights organizations and martin luther king junior that is well-known martin luther king junior was like the most surveilled man in the last fifty years. How about operation artichoke. You guys ever hear that. One project artichoke that was revealed in the church committee and in the pike committee project. Artichoke was a sei operation that researched interrogation methods operation. Artichoke was basically whether or not to determine whether or not a human being could be made to perform an attempted assassination. This project studied hypnosis and forced morphine addiction and use of other chemicals like lsd project. Artichoke than led to project k. Ultra which began in nineteen fifty-three project m. k. Ultra which is through the office of scientific intelligence otherwise known as broad project bluebird was coordinated to the united states army biological warfare laboratories to quote be able to identify drugs that could weaken the individual forced confessions through brainwashing and psychological torture and be able to manipulate subjects. Mental states and brain functions for a very specific outcome is project m. k. Ultra still going on is project. Artichoke still going on is project coin. Tell pro still going on. These are questions that i think we deserve answers to instead of project. Artichoke do we have project carrot. Do we have project domestic tell counter pro or how about project defeat. White supremacist pro. Are these things that are happening right now that we don't know about the church committee and the pike committee changed american's perspective on the security apparatus for a generation. Most people don't even know about it. We don't teach it in our schools. We don't teach history in our schools. What we should and by the way some conservatives don't even talking about this because it was republicans that we're using a lot of the stuff i don't care it's evil and it's wrong and it shouldn't happen in our country so the question is this. Is the security apparatus now. Have operation carrot operation domestic kanter move. Is this happening in our country. Did you ever read the fine print that appears when you start browsing an incognito mode it says that your activity might still be visible to your employer your school or your internet service provider. How can they even call it incognito to really stop these people from seeing the sightsee visit. You need to do what i do and use express. Vpn think about all the times. You've used the wi fi at a coffee shop a hotel or even at your parents home without express. Vpn every single site you visit could be logged by the advent of that network and that's still true when you're in incognito mode what's more is your home internet provider. I'm tom comcast. At and t. Or whatever can also see and record your browsing data express. Vpn is an application. It's an app then. Crips all of your network data and rerouted through a network of secure servers. Set your private. Online activity says just that private express. Vpn works on all of your devices and it's super easy to use so stop letting strangers invade your online privacy. Protect yourself at express. Vpn dot com slash. Charlie use my link at express. Vpn dot com slash. Charlie e. x. p. r. e. s. s. vpn dot com slash. Charlie to learn more war. What is it good for the way the song goes people say absolutely nothing more is good for one thing. Wars a distraction and war gives you an excuse to hold onto power. Obviously best demonstrated in the roman republic. Julius caesar was able to create the idea of a permanent dictator because of war powers those used to be temporary war powers and then permanent war powers. You see the threat of the other. The threat of being killed the threat of being blown up the threat of conflict otherwise known as endless war gives the intention bureaucracy. Entrenched bureaucracy gives the operating class an excuse to exist and never have to give up their power. The democrats are constantly evolving and adapting. They're they have realized that. The appetite for a four in war in iraq or afghanistan libya or syria in a conventional way is at a record low and so they have partnered of course with the new york times. Sixty nine thousand nine project to of course over racialized everything. The george floyd incident played into this and they have a new war. This war is not gonna actually require a pitch at the united nations. It's not going to require colin powell lying to the rest of the world. Slacken require condoleeza rice misleading. The american people. It's not gonna require dick to get his halliburton corporate contractors in line soccer choir. George bush forgetting what he said yesterday no instead this war which is nothing more than a perpetual ability to hold onto. Power is the national strategy for countering domestic terrorism. This is their new war. The same national security apparatus that otherwise would be building schools in the kandahar valley or electric car stations. That will never be used in southern iraq. Meanwhile our kids can't read can't eat then. Our cities are falling apart. The power grabbers know that conflict is a great way state important when you have. Peace leaders tend to be de emphasized. But when you have conflict whoever's in charge whoever's in charge becomes really really important so this new national strategy for countering domestic terrorism as published by the biden white house will send chills down your spine. We're going to post that on. Charlie kirk dot com. We're gonna cover it in great detail talk. Carlson ties it together. God bless this man he is a. He's a gift. He talks about things that no one else will talk about. And i just wanna say thank you for what he's been able to do here. You'll see what i mean. Cut for one tape. So because of january. Sixth says the chief law enforcement officer in the united states of america and many other members of joe. Biden's cabinet we must now use law enforcement and military force to arrest imprison and otherwise crush. Anyone who leads opposition to joe biden's government. That's their position. They say that out loud. They did today. So what is this exactly. Well it's a big change. In the way the united states government assesses and then treats its own citizens this essentially means that the new war will not be against saddam. Hussein will not be against osama bin laden isis or al qaeda will not be against the c. c. p. or shower al-assad will not be against it will not be in the persian gulf war. It will not be to try to intervene at the libyan civil war now. The new war is against you the new war that's being waged against christians against those of you that have made america great again hats at the top level of your maybe in the top of your closet against those of you. That don't think the democrats should hold onto. Power permanently tucker. Carlson plays a clip of vladimir putin questioning. American officials assassinated ashley babbitt. Who did kill ashley abbott. Are we allowed to ask that question. Play cut forty-two is i want to ask you. Did you. order the assassination of the woman who walked into the congress and who was shot and killed by police mincy. Do you know that four hundred fifteen individuals were arrested after entering the congress and the didn't go there to st laptop devils lucrative came with political demands. I okay see yeah. We displayed tape vladimir putin owner normal circumstances we would never play a foreign adversary criticizing our government but honestly those are fair questions. Who did shoot ashley abbott. And why don't we know in a strange turn of events vladimir putin cares more about the being of americans than joe biden does. that's weird. Why putin saying true things about our citizen getting our own citizen getting killed in the. Us capitol building and people being imprisoned. Isn't that our attorney. General's job not vladimir putin who by the way is a thug. I've said it before. I'll say it again. Not exactly have a soft spot for vladimir putin. Why is he saying things that are true about our own ability to go after political dissidents if this happened in russia we would sanction them if latimer putin present hundreds of protesters. That stormed the kremlin with no chance of bail. We would sanction tucker. Carlson continues by questioning. Why are there so many questions. And why are they hiding the documents that matter cut forty three and speaking of january six. Why are there still so many. Things basic factual matters that we don't understand about that day. Why is the biden administration preventing us knowing. Why is he ministrations. Still hiding more than ten thousand hours or surveillance tape from the us capital in january six. We'll could be the reason for that even as they call for more openness. We need to get to the bottom of it. They could release those tapes today but they're not why. Why are they hiding this. And then the real question and the kicker that has tucker carlson trending on every single social media platform that has caused for cancellation. The likes of which we have not seen for quite some time. Tucker carlson asks the most obvious question why is it that there might be this effort. There might have been this effort to infiltrate all of these groups and is the government hiding the identity of the officers that actually might have participated in the riots. Let me say that again. What if i told you our own tax. Payer dollars was part of the effort to orchestrate. This this is called a false flag operation if you believe this. I'm not saying that the proof is there. What i here's what we know. We know that there are unindicted co-conspirators which means that there were people that did the same thing that the solitary confinement did. But they're not in jail and they're not named. We know that we don't know who killed ashley babbitt. I know that sounds weird. We know that we don't know but we know that we know that the fbi is holding back. Fourteen thousand hours of footage and we also know that they're hiding the identity of many officers on duty that day that actually participated in the riott. Why cut forty four. We know that the government is hiding the identity of many law enforcement officers who present at the capitol january six. Not just the one who killed ashley. Babbit according to the government's own court filings those law enforcement officers participated in the riott sometimes violent ways. We know that because without fail the government has thrown the book and most people were present in the capital january there was a nationwide dragnet defined them and many of them are still in solitary confinement tonight but strangely some of the key people participated on january. Sixth have not been charged. Why is that the key people that have participated have not been charged when another tape tucker talked about the gretchen whitmer kidnapping scheme where half the people that were involved in that kidnapping scheme actually worked for the federal government either as informants or as agents. That's a pretty important piece of information to know what was the federal government's involvement on january. The six what was the federal government's involvement in orchestrating all of that. What was the federal government's participation. Was this scheme. We don't know that's in a category of we. Don't know but let me tell you something. That is likely true. What is likely true. Is that there. Were people on government taxpayer funded payroll. That were there that were in the crowd. That knew what was about to happen or were the ones pushing forward for it to happen. Play this cut. That shows the point of the gretchen. Whitmer situation play tape. There's a huge difference between using an informant to find out. What a group you find threatening my do and paying people to help organize a violent action which is what happened. Apparently according to government documents on january six. That's a line in the fbi has crossed it. And it's not the first time they crossed that line in michigan. Remember that plot to kidnap. Governor gretchen wittman. We heard a lot about that. And whitman was able to cover some of her own incompetence though not all by pointing to the fact that she's now a victim it goes on to say that half of the people at a four two of them were on. Fbi payroll klay cuts forty five tucker asks how the unidentified co-conspirators have. They still not been charged for the exact same crime. Play cut forty five so fbi. Operatives were organizing the attack on the capital on january six according to government documents and those two are not alone. In all revolver news reported there are quote upwards of twenty unindicted co-conspirators. in the oath keeper indictments all playing various roles in the conspiracy who have not been charged for virtually the exact same activities and in some cases. Much much more severe activities as those named alongside them in the indictments. I'm gonna play just the beginning part of that. Replay that tape. I want you to listen carefully. The first part of what he said. The fbi organized play tape so fbi. Operatives were wargin icing the attack on the capital on january six according to according to government documents. You would say or you would see that that would be the biggest story on the planet bigger than the wound leak at least for the time being because according to our own government. The chinese communist party is not the biggest threat to our country confucius institutes and not the biggest threat to our country. Cyber attacks from china are not the biggest threat to our country now. It's the guy in west. Virginia that has trump hat. That's the biggest threat to our country. If tucker's wrong released the tapes release all the tapes instead of watergate. Why don't we call it capital gate tapes. Why don't we see all of the tapes. We've seen for ourselves in certain places. Capital police officers opening doors. If we're wrong and are questions are baseless than show us the evidence because right now there are dozens of people that are rotting away in prison with all their constitutional and human rights. Put aside based on this idea that this was the largest attack ever. On american democracy crime is up rape is up murders are up our centers up gang. Violence is up in cities across the country. Inflation is up but our leaders say that domestic terrorism led by white supremacists is the greatest threat to our nation. You know that's not true. You know you are being lied to cut. Forty six tucker. Carlson plays the clip of amy klobuchar and christopher ray on health. There's a threat of this magnitude. You could be darn tuten that the focus will be better source information analysis and potential infiltration cut forty-six. There must be three. Think if we would have known If we could have infiltrated this group or found out what they were doing and that you have those moments so anytime there's an attack especially one. That's this horrific that strikes right at the heart of our system of government right at the time. Transfer of power is being discussed. You can be darn tooting that we are focused very very hard on. How can we get better sources better information better analysis so that we can make sure that something like what happened on. January six never happens again. Let's play a game. I'm going to say a quote. And i want you guys to guess who said this quote could get the jeopardy music go and maybe the goal is to squelch dissent against the regime. Even people in elected office did kim jong hoon say that about bouchara. Al assad bad guy right. We hate him vladimir putin g ping or how about what's some other third rate third world dictator tyrant. Despite was that assad hot madero. Madero say that. Let me say the quote again. The goal is to squelch dissent against the regime. Even people in elected office was a castro. Madero assad i want you guys the email me your thoughts freedom at charlie kirk dot com. Who said that. Who said the goal is to squelch dissent against the regime. Even people in elected office all right. Final answer Nope here's the answer. What is the former assistant director to the fbi. He said that on cable television. And no one blinked tonight the former assistant director to the fbi. Frank fizuli whoever that is when on television and he said the goal of this is the squelch dissent against the regime even people in elected office. That's literally what they said. He said that the goal of this entire domestic terrorisation is to try to go after people that disagree with the party disagree with joe biden and his views and disagree with the democrat party. That's frank zoot casually who used to run the fbi. Let's go and play cut. Sixty one tucker. Carlson quoting trevor book stating that fifty defendants on trial because of events not only encouraged but enabled by the fbi cut sixty. Trevor aaronson wrote a book on this whole the tariff factory and analyzed every terror prosecution from two thousand one to two thousand thirteen aronson found that at least fifteen defendants were on trial because of behavior. That the fbi. Donald encouraged but enabled fbi agents. Were essentially the potters in these crimes. They made the crimes crimes. And who's actually overseeing this. Well joe mansion and kirstin cinema susan collins and all the moderates you guys could be heroes. You could be heroes right now. If there was a new church committee the goal is to crush dissent. Obviously who said that not maduro. Not assad nano former director of the fbi play tape. What have we learned from our experience with international terrorism. In order to address that problem arresting low level. Operatives is merely a speed bump not a roadblock in order to really tackle terrorism in this time domestically you've got to attack and dismantle the command control element of a terrorist group that may mean people sitting in congress right now just remove lawmakers. Obviously i mean the real problem is not al-qaeda. The real is that isis. The real problems you pink the real promise. Low and beaubourg. That's the problem. According this guy the real problem is not madero. It's not castro. No no no the real problem. The actual threat of white supremacy is marjorie. Taylor green get rid of new church. Committee is needed and as we wind down last couple seconds. What else is happening. That's actually a simulation. What else is happening. That's a lie that's funded by your tax dollars. That's a conversation for another time. Thanks so much less than everybody. Email us your questions freedom at charlie. Kirk dot com. You wanna support our program. Go to charlie dot com slash support. If you want to get involved a turning point. Usa go to teepee used dot com. God bless you guys. Thanks so much. Speak sin at the heart of your job. Search is a mission for more. You wanna career that inspires you and sparks your pursuit of truth and justice at the fbi. We too are on a mission to find exceptional people like you. We're gathering experts from all backgrounds to help us stay ahead of threats. Our nation. Your pursuit for more deserves nothing less visit. Fbi jobs dot gov ford slash radio.

charlie kirk Fbi tucker Charlie kirk Charlie church committee Kelly shackelford pike committee federal government Tucker carlson Carlson richard jewel joe biden us waco chicago supreme court Jeff larry steve cynthia vladimir putin kelly shackelford
Weekly Roundup: Thursday, May 30

NPR Politics Podcast

35:36 min | 2 years ago

Weekly Roundup: Thursday, May 30

"Support for this podcast and the following message come from Google from Connecticut to California from Mississippi to Minnesota millions of businesses are using Google tools to grow online. Learn how Google is supporting businesses in your state at Google dot com slash economic impact. Hi, this is Deborah Davis from cedar City, Utah, and I am on my way to Washington DC to see my niece Clara, compete in the scripts national spelling bee this podcast was recorded at two ten eastern on Thursday, may, thirtieth things may have changed by the time, you hear this keep up with all the political coverage at NPR dot org. The MPR one app or your local radio station. All right. Here's the. S. H. O. W. I would get that right in the first round. Good job old show there. It's the NPR politics podcast. I'm Scott d'etre cover politics. I get to go second. Yeah. I'm Mara Liasson, national political correspondent, onto Monica Montenero political editor. And I'm Danielle Kurt Slaven political reporter. Wow. It's crazy that we all cover politics here in the politics, podcasts. Spell Kurtz and go KU. RTZ L, E, E N. You have the scripted audio. All right. All right. So yesterday, we had a podcast, all about Robert Muller appearing, like the Laura axe and making a statement for the first time. The look at the end of the Laura Rex when he's like in seclusion doesn't come out and speak for the tree. Okay. Okay. I see what you're saying. He's inclusive figure. I got that. So we talked about Robert Mueller. We talked about, what could come next on impeachment, but it's an important conversation. So I think we're gonna keep talking about that. A little more big picture today as I mentioned Muller made his grand pronouncement that he was wrapping up things and saying, basically congress deal with it. If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime. We would have said, so. We did not, however make a determination as to whether the president did commit a crime this morning. President Trump responded. He is here standing like he often does in front of the worrying blades of allowed helicopter. I can't imagine the courts allow again, I've never got into it. I never thought that would even be possible to be using that word to me. It's dirty word the word impeach. It's dirty filthy. Disgusting word and it had nothing to do with me. So I don't think so, because there was no crime high crimes and not with or, or it's high crimes and misdemeanors. There was no high crime, and there was no misdemeanor. So how do you beach based on that Samara? Here's the thing. I was wondering from you some days, it seems like all President Trump wants to do just have a big political fight over this. And then there are other days where he seems like, of course, I don't wanna be at peach. Like what do you think Donald Trump wants from? Labus. Well, he certainly does not want to be impeached. Even though his advisors will tell you that if he is impeached. They think that they can turn that to their advantage because he won't be removed from office and he can claim victory in that fight. But I think today was just a raw kind of Donald Trump's is rant on the south lawn because yesterday after Muller spoke he had been in his Twitter feed, relatively restrained. He was talking about insufficient evidence. He didn't go on an attack against Muller, but today he did. And it was curious. He said, I can't imagine the courts, allowing this, the courts have absolutely nothing to do with impeachment, and he's really angry. What's interesting is a lot of Republicans think Bob Muller did him a huge favor. Muller was so much of a stickler for the rules that he allowed the rules to tie his investigation up into knots and not come to a conclusion about. Whether the president committed obstruction or not. And instead of just running with that declaring victory and moving on the president, can't seem to get over this. There's really one reason why he came out and reacted the way he did is because he saw Bob Muller on TV right? I mean like without him being on television just this being in a written report for as much as that will set the hair on fire of a lot of people who like to read books and say, hey, these people should read this stuff. The fact of the matter is people don't right? And when you put something that concisely to basically, summarize all of those points in one place, rather than having to make people read four hundred pages of it, and putting your face and your words spoken behind it on camera. It's gonna make a bigger political impact, especially for this president and that's the great irony of this. Because if Donald Trump knows any one thing, if the power of television and secondarily, social media, and there was Robert Muller, begging people to read the four hundred and forty eight. Page report. But the reason why Muller made an impact yesterday was because he was on television. Oh, speaking of things, Robert Muller was begging people to do. I mean, he also gets at a really important thing that came out of this report that is not obstruction of Justice, and that is. Yeah. Foreign country. Interfered in our elections. This is a thing to worry about. I feel like I think that is going to be forgotten in all of the discussion of this, perhaps already is like all of the discussion is about is the guy going to be impeached or not. Holy crap. You guys Russia interfered in our elections that I hope that's a thing and he closed. His remarks begging the American people to pay attention to Zach. Right. I mean, he underlined that as the thing and President Trump even picked up on that and started saying, Russia, Russia, Russia, like it was Marcia Marcia, Marcia from the Brady bunch, and he was just, like, you know, nothing happened. They didn't try to get me elected when literally Robert Muller yesterday said that Russia was trying not to get Hillary Clinton. Wait a second Dominica. He tweeted I had nothing to do with Russia, helping me to get elected for the very. First time he acknowledged that. And then, of course, today he backtracked and said, Russia didn't get me elected. I got elected that was a pretty amazing tweet. The other thing that Robert Mueller talked about yesterday and many people read interpretations into the understated way. He said it was that I did my work. Of course, congress can take a look at this as well. If it wants to we have talked at length about the tension within the House Democratic caucus about what to do Dominica. Have you seen the underlying foundation shift at all? When it comes to what House Democratic leaders think needs to happen, next. No, not at all. And that's because Nancy Pelosi has been out front of this. She presumably read the report or at least formulated, her opinions around that, now look she's under a lot of pressure under more pressure than she was before Bob. Muller spoke out in public. But there are two paths here, there are two tracks. You have presidential candidates, some of them being much more forward leaning when it comes to impeachment, but that's because they're. Trying to win over an activist base. The people who in congress are saying that you have to start impeachment proceedings are these almost forty fairly Liberal Democrats who would suffer no consequences back in their districts. In fact, their constituents want impeachment proceedings to happen. Nancy Pelosi on the other hand is very keen to try to keep the majority and she knows that by doing that the way to do that is to protect those moderate candidates who came into office, who are fairly new and who have to run for reelection next year. You know, we're waiting for democratic just in a mosh to emerge in other words just in a March is the only Republican who called for impeachment, and he's done it at a certain amount of political risk to himself. He's gonna get primary the president's probably going to weigh in the primary, there isn't a single democrat who's called for impeachment. That is taking a political risk because his Dominica said, most of them all of them come from very liberal district. So you're talking about somebody on a swing district or. I'm talking about somebody who would take a political risk. Who's district is not, you know, eighty five percent democratic like Alexandra Cossio Cortez's district where their constituents clearly want impeachment and Nancy Pelosi is saying, even though yesterday made her job harder. No doubt about it made the calls for impeachment. A little louder. But the underlying politics, have not changed, which is if you can't as she said, change the minds of the country so far majority of people don't want impeachment. Can't change the minds of the Republican Senate who would need to remove the president after he was impeached in the house. You shouldn't do it, because the underlying politics of impeachment are the minute, you open an impeachment proceedings that does not end in the removal of the president, you have handed Donald Trump, a huge victory. That's my big question here is, is that a foregone conclusion? If House Democrats do impeachment proceedings. Is it that it's all risk? No reward for them. I mean, I think that the red line is opening a formal impeachment hearing, you can investigate the president as they are doing. You can investigate him. For obstruction. All the stuff in the Miller report, you can investigate him for all his business dealings. There are a lot of things that you can do, but the minute you open an impeachment hearing you've set up a process, where either it's going to end up with them, losing or him loose. I don't think it's that clear cut, right? I mean, I don't think that it's, it's necessarily that the president has no potential black Mark. Obviously he'd be upset about the fact that they, you know, impeached him in the house, and he would go down in history as one of only a few people to be impeached. Right. That is something he doesn't want on his resume. Well, and on top of that, too. What Domenica was saying earlier is that an impeachment proceeding would create a lot more TV moments, it would create so it investigate wants to legislate, also an egg. And she believes that impeachment hearings would create the only TV moments in other words, everything else would grind to a halt. There's a lot of ways to to wound president with oversight short of opening formal impeachment here. And I do think it's true that when you talk to people who ran campaigns last year during the midterms. And when you talk to people running presidential campaigns right now, they do think that even though Donald Trump excites democratic voters, or you know, opposing Donald Trump excited democratic voters that the more they talk about him. And then let's talk about their own ideas of their own proposals specifically health care, the more they hurt themselves. I think that that factors into things here as well. I think the last thing I want to ask everybody, because, you know, we're going to keep having different forms of this conversation is what do you think if anything could change the fundamentals that we're talking about here that could lead to increased momentum for some sort of impeachment proceeding or could lead to a really just dropping of this, and moving on Mara? You said Democrats in, in risky districts, like, what are couple of things? If more Republicans join Justin Amash, if something came out of these hearings about Trump's tax returns, or his business, dealing some new piece of information or. Or if we had a recession and his approval ratings went into the thirties, and Republicans started seeing him as a hindrance, not a help, then the whole political equation changes. But right now, I think voters want to make the decision for themselves about whether or not the president should remain in office impeachment is a political preceding. What I find really curious as all these Democrats who say, well, sure it might be bad politics. But we have to do our constitutional duty, no impeachment is a political process. It was designed that way by our founders. It's not something separate from politics. There's an election coming up and voters will get to decide whether Donald Trump's stays in office or not when you look at the polling on our poll last month from Maritz showed that fifty three percent of people said that Democrats should not begin impeachment proceedings. Thirty nine percent said they should seventy percent of Democrats said they should ninety one percent of Republicans said they should not and fifty one percent of independence said they should not. Also, I can't underestimate how much the Bill Clinton impeachment proceedings form, the house leaderships analysis of this situation. It is different. Bill Clinton had already been reelected. He had a good economy, just like Trump. He was, of course, much much more popular going into impeach him. And I think he was in the sixties, but he came out of impeachment at seventy three percent approval rating, because voters looked at this process and said, this is a partisan exercise. All right. We're gonna take a quick break. When we come back, we're gonna talk debates coming up, and there's some new rules for them support for this podcast and the following message come from SimpliSafe home security who believes fear has no place in a place like home. That's why they made a completely wireless home security system that can be self installed in under an hour with no long term contracts, simplisafe's sensors are built to protect every points of access to your home more than three million people have already protected their home with SimpliSafe, get free shipping and a sixty day money. Back guarantee at SimpliSafe dot com slash NPR politics. Support also comes from the American beverage association, America's beverage companies are working together to support families as they reduced the sugar in their diets coke, Dr Pepper and Pepsi are providing more great tasting options with less sugar or no sugar at all smaller portion sizes, clear calorie, labels and reminders to think balance more choices smaller portions less sugar. Learn more about how they're working together at balance US dot org. Mitch McConnell has become a champion for conservatives. But back in the day, he wants cut support from groups like labor unions market down as one of the worst things have done. See you thought about over the years, still think about if his face Mitch McConnell, new series from imbedded subscribe now. All right. We are back in less than a month, the first debates of the presidential campaign Dominica. Why is this such a big deal? Well, we're entering a new phase in the presidential election. I mean, really this was sort of getting to know you phase, these candidates need to see how much money they could raise can they sustain something long-term now we're going to get to a place where they're having to argue about all those ideas in some of them have been putting forward policy prescriptions in white papers, and the like now they're all going to be standing next to each other. And how do they measure up with each other? This is going to be the first opportunity for a lot of democratic primary voters and independence for that matter, at home, watching to size up these candidates for the first time does it. It matter beyond this is another TV moment. Like we were talking about with Muller. Does it does it matter beyond just the image of the back and forth between candidates? Well, I mean, they can't say stupid stuff, right? Like there's always the possibility that you have a breakout moment for a candidate. Right where they're able to turn a conversation or make a great point, or do it with a piece of humor or you know, smirk or smile in a way or forget, the department you want to eliminate or do something really off base like that. I mean, just think about any path any recent past presidential election. The big moments, you remember are things like that. Rick Perry forgetting the name of the department he wants to get rid of or which runs. Yeah very true. I really have ironies or I mean, think about that moment in one of the Republicans 2016 debates, where Marco Rubio kept repeating this line over and over. It was something to the effect of President Obama knows exactly what he's doing. And Chris Christie called him out for it and. Really made? It look like Marco Rubio, couldn't do anything, other than repeat, the same talking points over and over. He had done well in Iowa and it looked like Marco Rubio is on a tear and that was it. The bottom fell out. He did terribly New Hampshire. He never recovered. But, like how many opportunities are there for those breakout moments when there are nine other people on the stage? Yeah, I think that's really hard. I also think that we're in a very strange moment in the democratic primary, I think you've got a normal sized field embedded in this huge crowd of candidates who are pulling at one or two percent. In other words, there are five major candidates, and that's a normal size democratic field. And I think that they are going to start emerging, not necessarily after the first debate, but probably after the second one and then certainly after Iowa. I think the, the, the multitudes of candidates will start to kind of fade away. The one thing that. I am curious about when you have this many people on a stage is how much that incentivizes may be bombastic or big bigness from the candidates. I mean, if you are Andrew Yang or if you're John Hickenlooper maybe a lesser known candidate and you don't have a lot of name recognition. How much does this raise the stakes for you that you decide? All right. I'm gonna go out there and say something crazy or I'm gonna say something real loud. Just just so people remember me oh, I think there's a big incentive to do that. The other thing I'm wondering is do they all think it's in their interest to gang up on Biden shirt? Right. Well, that's the one thing is normally a first debate is sort of an introduction. Everybody's really nice to each other, but given how long Biden has lead in the polls. And by the margin, he has there are a lot of people itching to take the gloves off when it comes to the former vice president, we were talking about some of the, the lesser known candidates. Let's talk about the qualification rules that was in the news this week as as well. Some of the candidates who don't have as high poll numbers, and don't have as much money raised actually are trying to. Scramble to qualify for the debates. Daniel, can you walk us through what candidates need to do to qualify for the debates that are coming up in the next few months? Yes. So for the summer debates, what you have is they need to meet one of two benchmarks, they need to either get one percent across three national or early state polls or they need to get sixty five thousand unique donors, and those donors need to be across twenty states and that has been something that the DNC has been criticized for by Frank with some of the candidates struggling to meet those numbers. New York Senator Kirsten gillibrand of pretty shockingly to a lot of people given her success fundraising for her Senate races over the years was having a hard time getting to that sixty five thousand donor. Total on was saying, you know, why is it the number of donors? Why isn't it? You know success. Have you wanna statewide race before things like that, Cheryl, I mean, it is that, you know, they want to show grassroots support so having sixty five thousand donors across twenty states having two hundred. Donors within each of those states shows that you have a broad network of qualifications, and people who are interested in you running. Now, the DNC has severely changed those standards for the fall debates, which we can talk more about that would severely winnow the field at this almost like like a new video game level making it her. Why did they do that? That is a great question. I interviewed a DNC chairman Tom Perez yesterday about that. And he, he didn't give a direct answer that, despite the fact that several times, but he said, we made it clear from the beginning that we were overtime going to make it tougher. And what they're doing is they're doubling those figures you need to percent in the polls hundred thirty thousand donors, and you need to do both next time, so the, the goal is to have a smaller number of people on stage. He argues that the goal is to incentivize fundraising incentivize grassroot support, and he insists and I still think we're gonna need two nights in the fall. I still think double-digit candidates are going to qualify. But you know there's a real argument that this could drastically cut down. And the number of people on the stage. Well, so it does strike me, though, that the, the DNC is in a tough position from two thousand sixteen. Right. Because after two sixteen a lot of people, particularly Sanders voters thought that the DNC you know, they saw the DNC as putting their thumb on the scales in favor of Hillary Clinton. So the DNC maybe they may well want to winnow the field. But also, when you have someone like Huston gillibrand coming out and saying, hey, that's not fair. You have for the second time in a row. A candidate saying, hey, you're not being fair about the debates, which I'm sure makes people like Tom Perez. Very uncomfortable. Wait a minute. What Bernie Sanders doesn't feel the same way this time? Well, Bernie Sanders is doing just fine in terms of both polling, and fundraising and interestingly, you've seen a lot of his supporters on the internet say, this is great that the DNC is doing this. Sounds kinda hypocritical just made the emoji of the guy. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's an argument that for Sanders to be able to break through it's more important for him to have a smaller stage than it is, Biden, for example, because you've got so many candidates who are espousing progressive views that for him to be able to stand out on that or go toe to toe with someone like Elizabeth Warren, he needs that field to be smaller. Well, not only that it depends on who he's on the stage win. Right. Because Scott, I think you were telling me, Tom Perez, says it's going to be random, right? So here is the approach, they will take the top eight candidates in the polls, and they will divide them in have four the first night for the second night. And then the, the remaining, twelve six and six, they are desperately trying to avoid what the Republicans didn't 2016 where you had the, the varsity and j children's table. Yeah. Whichever children's day better. You're probably thinking, wait a second. There's more than twenty candidates. Yes. There are if twenty candidates meet all these criteria. Oh, they will go into a tiebreaking type system looking at higher polling numbers and higher fundraising numbers to get the twenty people who make it onstage. And before these debates you're gonna start to have a lot of events where all the candidates are in the same place. If not on the same stage at the same time, I'm going to be covering a lot of them then to California tomorrow for the state party convention, where fourteen different candidates are speaking. We have for that. I'll be an Iowa, where a similar number of candidates will all be speaking, we have entered the season of back to back to back to back to back to back to back to back speeches at party dinners, seemed like important states. They do. Forty. And one other thing that's been happening is a lot of policy announcements. What are the big trends that we're seeing in all of the white papers and medium posts? And I guess it's really just those two things. So as far as trends, I mean, it's hard for me to get trends, let me just get it a couple of things that candidates have put out this week. And then we can zoom out. So, for example, this week, better will work put out an immigration proposal. This is his second major proposal of the campaign, and it's also the second major immigration proposal out there after Hooghly on Castro and the things that are in it one big part is he says, you know, I would use executive action immediately to rollback of bunch of Trump administration policies also he would create a path to citizenship for eleven million people in the country who are here illegally. And on top of that, he would ramp up border security. He says hire more customs and border patrol agents and he would also increase resources to help the backlog, go faster. So what better will work seems to be saying here is to highlight first of all? Hey guys, I'm from a border district, and I care about this, and I know a lot about this. I mean when you ask about trends, this kind of gets at one trend which is candidates are using policies to differentiate themselves air. Also using their policies to tell us who they are. And one thing about it will work is telling us is. Yeah, I know about immigration. This is where I'm from listen to me. I have a question about candidates, and their plans in two thousand and sixteen Hillary Clinton was ridiculed for having the five point plan for everything, and it was like, oh, she's droning on and on. And nobody cares about this. Now, Elizabeth Warren, I have a plan for that is one of her slogans is being celebrated, because she's a thought leader, and is coming up with all of these substantive plans to deal with income inequality and all sorts of other issues affecting middle class people, and she's being applauded for it. And you could even argue that she's making up a little ground in the polls because of it a welcome to the conversation that Danielle and I have on a regular basis at our desk. I think the biggest difference here is that all of Elizabeth Warren's plans keep pointing in the same direction of the. Big theme of her campaign, that she's fighting for people who have not had the system work for them who have been struggling who need a helping hand from the government that is like the big overarching message of Elizabeth, Warren's campaign, and career. And I think each one of these plans, I'm gonna break up Amazon. You know, big they certainly are bigger than Hillary Clinton's is much different than, than than what Hillary Clinton was doing what you're saying, like I have proposals for everything and here's how I would govern. And here's seven hundred plan scattered across different areas. Right. I mean. Yeah. Tip to put Elizabeth Warren this whole thing in short. It's unrig the economy. Right. It puts her in a similar lane with Bernie Sanders, who's campaign told the Washington Post Jeff Stein this week that he's putting out a plan to let workers put people on corporate boards and to have corporations set aside stocks to make workers shareholders and pay out dividends them, which would be a huge change from the way things operate now. Right. I mean, I think one more thing that is happening right now is that Elizabeth Warren now versus Hillary Clinton in two thousand sixteen Hillary. Clinton in two thousand sixteen was coming off of President, Barack Obama, a lot of people saw her as being a potential continuation of him, whereas Lisbeth, Warren would potentially run against President, Donald Trump, who is not a policy heavyweight. And so I think she is the locus for a lot of the pent-up. Oh, we want someone smart who has thought about things for those voters on the democratic side. She is sort of the person. They're directing their energy at. And she, I think ace mart thing she has done is pick up on that. That's where her whole, I have a plan for that thing is coming from because she knows people like there are certain people on the democratic side who feel starved for that with these candidates, putting out, these big, high level policy ideas. I mean they're communicating more than the policies, they are saying, hey, here is a priority of mine like that will work with the environment and immigration young, Castro with immigration. He's also talked about education, comma, Harris with the gender pay gap, all of that. You have candidates at least trying to say he this thing is my jam so to speak like it is. Not that person's its mind and the next Jones, they will all have is to talk about all of these policies in the twenty two seconds of the time that they are allotted to, but that's ten person's day. That's not something to overlook. There's a reason why you do this. Right. You put out these white papers. You talk about them, a bunch on the campaign trail, and what everybody on the campaign trail. All the reporters should listen for, and what people at home, should listen for is how they're narrowing that down to that potential sound bite. What's the thing? They keep sort of saying, over and over again. How they massaged it and filtered it down to be understandable for people. All right. We're gonna take a quick break. Come back with can't let it go support for this podcast and the following message come from Google veteran. Mitch Hoyt founded skinny sticks maple syrup and he's showing that small businesses can do big things, Mitch started making syrup from a few trees in his Wisconsin backyard, and now is connecting with customers worldwide with help from Google tools skinny sticks is one of millions of smoke. Businesses using Google to grow learn how Google is helping businesses in your state at Google dot com slash economic impact. Support also comes from Rossi's, Roth these are the everyday flats for life on the go stylish versatile fully machine washable, and they go with everything from yoga pants to dresses and skirts. Best of all there's zero break in period. Thanks to their woven design, seamlessly crafted from recycled water bottles. Plus, Roth is always come with free shipping, and free returns and exchanges. Find out why BuzzFeed called them there. Forever shoes at Rossi's dot com slash weekly after James rebels murdered in nineteen sixty five there was a national outcry, the back of the scene of the crime in Selma Alabama many people responded differently, so what happened then, and what could Justice look like all these years later, NPR's, new podcast. White lies is seeking answers. Listen and subscribe, now, we are back, and we will end the show in a very surprising twist by. Talking about that. One thing we just can't let go politics or otherwise. Nobody saw this coming Dominica. You are up. I what can't you like a when I can't let go of is Cory Booker this week deciding that he's gonna heavily lean into dad jokes, what he decided to do with these dad jokes was a video while he's in a, you know, vehicle in Iowa and the campaign, gave him one minute to tell as many dad jokes as he could hear some of that. What the dad's favorite drink pop? What is a hundred grab it's in the line going backwards receding. Hairline, what is what tigger your have your head in the toilet? They were looking for PU. Joke. You really like. Or Christmas Christmas jokes. What do you call a cat on a beach during during Christmas, send the law of Christmas, I would get out of the RV at this point, even if it was moving leap and rose after? He's not even the only one governor Bullock of Montana was dad jokes on the day. He got into the race. Is it just an attempt to filibuster? I mean it could be. But I don't relate ability related. Well, okay. So we're going to do our own dad joke off way. I didn't Scott wasn't paired this. So I'm going to just try to roll off, as many as I can apparently as Barbara has our producer has prepared for us. So you're gonna start the timer. We got the countdown right here. Three two would okay. I just got two cupcakes for my brother. Wow. That was a good swap. We get it. Yes. The brother says he got to oh. Okay. I fell off a thirty foot ladder yesterday. So the other guy says, why are you? Okay. Then the other guy says, yeah it was only the second rung. Good. Knock knock who radio who radio not here. I come. Not knock who's their own lady lady who. Wow. You. Waiter. The soup is awful who made it. Oh, I'm sorry. It's been a minute. We all had a hand in it. All right. I have to give credit to the book called crack yourself up jokes for kids by sandy silverthorn, because none of these were mine. But this is a book that my mom gave to my son over Memorial Day weekend that he was reading off and cracking himself up over, so he's right at the right age to think these are funny. So good for me. He's nine years old. Thank you, Jack Mara. Okay. Mic can't let it go. This week has to do with the tornadoes that are ravaging, the midwest in particular a weatherman for Dayton, Ohio TV stations w KF, and W, R T had had enough, and he lashed out at viewers on Sunday night, because he was getting a lot of complaints. The station had interrupted the bachelorette to report on these tornadoes that had rolled into the area. I was just taking social media. We have fewers complaining already just go back to the show. No, we're not going back to the show folks. This is a dangerous situation. Okay. It's nice right? Thinking about this. This was your neighborhood. I'm sick and tired of people complaining about this our job here is to keep people safe, and that is what we're gonna do so sick and tired. And I'm not gonna take it anymore. Look that guy is a hero. He's a weatherman who is telling people how to save their lives. It's my props good for him. Danielle. What can you not like go? All right. I'm bad at whistling and I, but I forgot to ask for music cue. So. Dope. Can't do it. That was the I can't whistle. All right. So we have another installment of UFO news for Clegg's, this is from Helene Cooper, Ralph Blumenthal, and Leslie Kean at the New York Times with the story about navy pilots seeing unidentified flying objects in the sky. So the story this is from twenty six it opens with a Lieutenant Ryan graves out in his airplane, and he was saying that he, they were seeing these unidentified flying objects out there for longer than you would expect them to be. They were moving in ways you wouldn't expect a aircraft move and that not just he has seen it. Other people in the navy have seen them as well. Look, this is a topic that in the newsroom gets me about as passionate as that weatherman minutes ago. I mean, these are very official people being written about by a prestigious journalistic outlet, like how much more serious of. Of like reporting do you need to think? Oh, wow. Maybe they're onto something. Well, it, it is it is reporting, it is his that they definitely saw aliens. No, no, no. I know it says, like no one defense department is saying the objects were extraterrestrial. Of course, they would say that at experts emphasize that earthly explanations can generally be found for such switch. Just goes to show you that the cigarette smoking man has gotten to them as well. I don't know if you guys remember this. But when Obama I got into the White House, he said, publicly that he was going to find out what was going on at Roswell. Remember that? And there was never a briefing, so they may have gotten to him to totally. Yeah. Listen, Elizabeth Warren has a plan for everything. I'm just waiting for her area. Fifty one plans come out because then I want to report on that. Well, it's very interesting and they head even more articles on this, I think it was back in December. So this is part of an ongoing series of very interesting aliens among us. And for my can't let it go. I wanna talk about somebody who you do never here. On this podcast, you hear her name mentioned in the credits once in a while, but you would not be hearing, this podcast right now, if it were not for her, and that it's Beth Donovan r-maine editor on the Washington desk. She is someone who will this podcast into existence grew it into what it is. Now is someone who always had a new idea for something. We could try and change differently. And on top of that. If you are listening to this podcast, you are well aware that the news has come at a constant minute by minute barrage over the last few years, that has never stopped throughout all of that Beth has led the impair politics team day in day out with enthusiasm and good humor. And creativity. She is leaving the politics team to go do other work at NPR, we are going to miss her tremendously. And we just want to say thank you very much Beth for everything. You've done for us. She's been a visionary editor and incredibly supportive, boss, and just a joy to work with, so we're sad. She's leaving. But we're happy she's not leaving the building. We are going to miss her terribly. All right. That is a wrap for today. We'll be back in your feet. As soon as there's political news, you need to know about our candidate interview series is continuing an in your fees this week. We have an interview with New York Senator Kirsten gillibrand and to keep up with all the other news happening, you can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram. Just search for NPR politics. I'm Scott detro- a cover politics. I'm Mara Liasson, national political correspondent. I'm too much in our political editor, and I'm Danielle Kurtz LeBron, political reporter, thank you for listening to the NPR politics, podcast.

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GSMC Movie Podcast Episode 119: Roma and The Favourite

GSMC Movie Podcast

37:35 min | 2 years ago

GSMC Movie Podcast Episode 119: Roma and The Favourite

"Can't decide in torn between a romantic comedy action or an indie film to watch for the weekend. Well, we'll well. Golden State media concepts movie podcast is your ultimate guide to the latest movies. Join us is we dissect the latest on the blockbusters, it's the Golden State media concepts movie podcast. Hello. And welcome to the GMC movie podcast. Brought to you by the GMC podcast network. I'm your host Heidi. And today we are talking about some wonderful films. But the reason I am talking about them is because the twenty nineteen Academy Awards are coming up and with the awards coming up. I have always loved the Academy Awards. I enjoy the red carpet fashion beforehand. I enjoy the show I sometimes enjoy the host and the hosts segments, and even though I'm aware that the watching of the Academy Awards the popularity is going down, which probably has to do with multiple things one. It's on cable even know anyone who has cable anymore. But I still love watching it even though people maybe my age don't enjoy it as much. I really do. I really look forward to it. It's my favorite of the awards shows. And as I said because. It is coming up I had to prepare. And so I am trying to watch as many nominated movies. I can with that being said, I then looked over the list of best picture nominees. And honestly, I was afraid to what some of them, particularly Roma and the favorite this fear relates to something that I have mentioned the podcast before. And it's really a movie like I get I get anxious going to see a movie, it's particularly dramas or thrillers of things like that because of the possible negative and otherwise unsettling features that the film could produce. And yes, I am aware that I am sort of a nervous Nellie. But I really don't want the anxieties to keep me from viewing great art and experiencing great movies. But unfortunately, it can I mean it sometimes does. But because the. The Academy Awards are coming up. I knew that I had to do it for the good of the podcast. I had to go and I had to go see these two wonderful and incredible films. And so that brings us to today where I will be talking about Roma and the favorite aka four hours of personal induced sweating because let me tell you if he were holding my hand at that time, it would have been slick. I will be starting off by talking about Roma. And this is one that's actually not insiders. It's on net. Flicks. It came out in two thousand eighteen there has been a few showings of this film. In select theaters. I did not see it in theaters. I thought on Netflix. I think that it would have been really good to see in theaters. I just wasn't playing in theater near me or by tilting aware of it. But anyway, I knew that it was a net flex which makes it very easy to watch. This film is directed by Affonso Koran who also wrote produced co edited and shot the film. Also, the Matafi is by manual Lubetzky. Who is a great cinematographer? He's also worked with a Koran for a while they've done other films together before this film stars elites upper as Cleo. Marina day Tavira. A so so FIA who is the mother of the family that this film focuses on. I'd also stars the children of this family Diego. Cortina route a rookie who plays Tonio Carlos Peralta who plays. Oh, Marco graph who plays pep bay. And then yell at the mess out who plays. So and also there is Nancy Garcia as Adela. And Veronica argh, arsia who plays the senior Theresa who is the grandmother of this family. You also have Fernando Grady AGA as Tonio who is the father of the family, and this film is set in nineteen seventy seventy one, and it is a semi autobiographical take on the director Korans upbringing in Mexico City. If follows the life of a live in housekeeper of a middle class family. Also, the the film refer. To the colonial Roma district of the city. That's where the family lives, and that's where the title Roma comes from which I feel like if you just he aroma, you're going to think it's like Italian film, but it's not setting Mexico. But the neighborhood does play I feel like it's very you can see it, and it's very visual. It stands out. It's very the architecture and the layout of the film looks really interesting. And it does make sense that the title would. I this neighborhood. Once I read about it. Of course, so Roma had its world premiere at the seventy fifth. Venice international film festival that was in August twenty eighteen there it won the Golden Lion. And it began a limited the actual run in the United States in November twenty teen. And then went streaming on net flicks. In December of twenty eighteen this film has received numerous accolades among them. In fact, ten nominations. At the Academy Awards, including best picture best foreign language film. Best director best actress for the woman plays Cleo elite. Some also a best supporting actress, and that will go to marina Di tof era. Of course, we'll go to her if she wins and with the ten nominations tied with the favourite as the most nominated film. So yes, we are talking about the two films that are the most nominated at the upcoming twenty nineteen Academy Awards, which is pretty exciting. If also. It won the best director and best foreign language film awards at the Golden Globes and a best director and best picture at the critics choice awards. The film has also received seminar seven nominations at the British Academy film awards. So this film, his is very heavily critically acclaimed. I will say the critics have been just eating it up and other sina files. Really? But I have not heard that much news about it from my peers, and I'm not I don't like hang out with a bunch of movie, critics, you know. So that's probably why I haven't heard of it. But I would say I haven't heard too much about it. I mean, honestly, probably not a superhero movie is probably why haven't heard many friends doc about it. But I was a little surprised about that. Because it's on Netflix, which I feel like people in my age bracket would be really just excited about a Netflix film that has been so critically acclaimed. But I had not heard much about it. At least from peers. Also, an interesting fact is that before being cast four the title for the role as Cleo you'll eat upper home, she had recently completed her graduate training. Thing in preschool education and had no acting experience or formal training and acting prior to this role. I read that in. I mean, it's that is surprising seen her. But also not surprising because she seems so natural in the role. It's it's vein natural just I'm just I was so impressed by so many things that she did. But it doesn't seem actally. Like, there are a lot of things like in the movie vice for example, all of the actors, they're portraying these very big characters like Christian bale portraying Dick Cheney, but it's that felt very actor -ly and very much like a person impersonating someone else. I really did not get that feel in this film, all of these actors, and all of these roles felt very genuine and very wrong and just amazingly real. So I would say that is very refreshing. And so I guess reading about this fact that I didn't have any acting experience before that it's not that surprising. But she was really wonderful. So okay, I I'm excited. I guess to talk about this film, which is different from how I felt preparing to watch this film, mostly because I had heard plot points about it. And I was just like, oh, it's so real I don't know if I want to watch something so raw which I will talk about a little bit later, one of the most immediately noticeable things about this film is the imagery. It's what I noticed as soon as the film started. And you just keep seeing it throughout the film, just until the end it has so much imagery. And really if you want to indulge, your inner film critic you easily can in this film. It's not like you're watching. You're like, oh, what does that mean? What does that mean you watch it? And you kind of you understand what it means. It's pretty approachable in that sense. For example. There is a scene win. Cleo is walking up the stairs the roof of a building. And it looks like she's. Walk into the sky, and she's just like disappearing into the heavens and connects her to an angel. Really? She seems like this heavenly being not in the same way that Mary Poppins comes from the sky, but in a much more realistic way, she's very Djelic. Also throughout the film, you see airplanes in the sky just flying by and these are just like these unattainable like gateways to heaven and just an escape from daily life, and like the idea of the sky as being the scape. But in the film, all the characters still just stuck where they are and stuck on the earth. Oh, also, there is continuous water imagery, it's so beautiful. Like it opens on imagery of water and just keeps coming back and also water is really a signature of the director's films, and to me the water in this film. It feels like trying to wash things away that just keep coming back. It's just like the continual movement of life. The pain in the flowing. And also because water is a force that can save you like from thirst or it can carry you weigh in current, and it's just this really powerful force that is displayed so beautifully and almost poetically. And it's just you can't miss it. I feel like you can't watch this film and not see some of the little moments like this, the little imagery and just the things that you can read into you know, like when you're a child and you're in in English class and someone teacher asks you like, all right? Well, what what does it mean? By the fact that the curtains are blue or something and your kid, you're like, I have no idea that means nothing. That's just a color that shows, and it can feel that way. Sometimes when you're reading literature or something or not to like this on literature, but in other forms of art, sometimes you might be like, well that doesn't matter. They did it randomly, but you really feel that watching this film every single thing was purposeful. And that's masterful to see unlike I felt like in vice. I talked about the director Adam McKay, it just felt like he had an overabundance of little movie tricks like fourth wall, breaking narration and little things like that that made it very clear, the director was making it clear purposeful choice. But it almost felt like he was being shoved down your throat kind of like just a man behind the curtain like turning little knobs and be like, all right. And now we're turning on cheeky nece, you know, and like the audience is going to watch it. This felt like that away almost felt not cruel, but it was very forceful, and this instead was more like you're being gently led down this path and gently led down the plot of this film. And you're like engrossed by it. Honestly, you're not forced to be like, oh, what does that mean? And you know, like you're being forced to watch Christian bale talk to you while being Dick Cheney which again, I liked by some not trying to like three hundred the bus. But this is just much more gentle and not difficult to understand. I'm not left question. Like what? Did that mean like I feel like it's pretty clear in a very beautiful way, not too obvious. But but very well done. Also, fellow director Gerardo Toro who directed the shape of water. Among many of the things he's also a friend of this film's director Koran and he wrote a Twitter just a bunch of Twitter posts about this movie. He loves this movie. And he wrote about the water Madryn this film. He said all troops and Ruma of revealed by water. And I just I felt that that I really see that that is very true. And he wrote a really good threat. I'll mention a few other points later on. But if you want to read it, I would suggest finding his Twitter thread about this before we continue talking about Roma we're gonna take a quick break. So we'll be right back. So now that you've chosen the vanity paint and bathroom tile. You still can't decide on the faucet. Let the Home Depot make that easier by saving ten dollars on the sleek modern Mohan Genta faucet right now. It's only eighty nine bucks as that breezy choices, the Mohan Genta faucet now to eighty nine bucks during the winter kitchen and bath event at the Home Depot. More saving more doing vowed remark twenty-fourth while supplies last. Want to know the latest and hottest music hidden the airwaves be left out. Listen to the Golden State media concepts music podcast, g keeps you on the loop with everything you need to know from rock hip top flooring. And we'll throw in news of your favorite artists, concert and tour dates and so much more. Listen, no further because this is the gold standard in music podcasts. Welcome back to the GMC movie podcast. We are continuing to talk about the very nominated film, real mom and already very award winning film before the break. We mentioned some of the imagery that is very prevalent in this film, very beautifully done. I want to continue talking about this film and move on to some of the the feel of this movie because it has a very strong feel and something that really sticks with you. I watched this film with a roommate of mine again because it's beautifully on net flicks. So that made it very easy, and we watch together and afterwards the next day. She said to me that she was just thinking about the movie still and not necessarily some of the tragic scenes tragic images that might stick with you. Like, they definitely stuck with me again, hence, my movie going Zayed in fear. But like she's talked about the feel of the film, and that really stuck with her and someone that she continued to think about and just the cinematography and the the look of. The film. So on that topic. I really I want to applaud the cinematography in this film, like my roommate it really stuck with me images of it. You can see it if they pause the film and just took like shots from it stills from it. They just looked like wonderful photographs that could be a museum. It was fair beautifully done. I became so swept up in the long moving camera shots and the cinematic treatment of everyday life. It's it's like if you're looking at something every day, you know, like a flower vase, something you don't think about it that much, but in this film, the way everything is framed you just settle on things. And you look at them, and you take it in sort of like how how art is often meant to make you pause and think about things in life. This really does that. Well, also, this film was in black and white which I did not expect. But was really nice. I really enjoyed also it feels like a talion cinema, which I have not seen as many people comment on this. I thought I would it doesn't make me question. If I'm getting a good handle on the field this film. So I really think I am I think this is under pointed out point, but I really do feel like I feel maybe not necessarily the impact. Or the influence of Italian cinema. But it is similar in feeling. It has a almost romantic feeling to it not remanded in terms of like couple love. But there is a romance to it. I think also because the way it plays with memory often reminds me of Fellini and how he so often used his own memory of events in his films similar to how this director did. And it really makes me think heavily of Italian cinema. Also, this film just feels classic and already timeless. Not traditional. I wouldn't say that I talked about green book which felt traditional and not necessarily groundbreaking. This did not feel that way. I don't mean traditional or classic in that sense. I meant that you can watch this film now and years later, you know, a decade from now watch it again, and it will still have impact I think it will really become a classic film. That is shown in filmmaking classes, I definitely could see that. Also, I wanted to talk about Cleo is a character. She is really quiet, and because of that her most important feature are not her words. But like what she sees. And what she does and her quiet nature. It like allows the viewer to view themselves in her position kind of like how in a romance novel, the protagonist might be a very plain character. So that the reader can then insert themselves as that character in the story and feel the story more intimately. I really feel that in this movie Cleo, not because she's a boring character because she's not have substance. But because she is quiet, and it allows us as well to take in what is going on around her more closely and just she's not like a wallflower that you feel you could just push her over she's almost mystical away. But just in a way that feels approachable she isn't just lecture you about things she's not to obvious about her points. But you see it in her eyes. And in the way that she. Variances the world also about the field. This movie relating back to Garum, the Toro's Twitter thread about this film. He wrote in every sense Roma is a fresco a mural, not a portrait not only the way it is lens. But the way it scrolls with long lateral dole Dali's. The auto audio visual information, context, social unrest, factions and politics morals of the time exist within the frame to be read. And I really feel that it has this painter leaf feel this extremely artistic feel again without being in your face like annoying about it. But it just you can take it all in in a very an a really refreshing way it felt refreshing of the whole film did. Moving on to another topic. I wanna talk about the tragedy that is in this film. It's not this is not an extremely joyful film. It's not even extremely funny. There are moments of humor, but not extreme humor. I would say I I've heard conflicting things about this. And I feel like I'm not they wouldn't say a movie critic critique movies, but but casually. I honestly feel like this is kind of tragedy porn kind of like how when people like oath food porn like he's looking at really great images of food, and it makes you hungry. This is like almost an overindulgence of tragedy. Not there other movies that are worse. But I I saw I listened to commentary about this about this film where they said it's on the edge of tragedy porn where the character. Cleo. She's not like completely overrun by this tragedy. But I feel like still I feel the overwhelming sense of tragedy and the sadness, and I really can't get over that. I also personally I feel like in a way almost been conditioned to judge a movie about a foreign place or a foreign protagonist sad. Like, I feel it'll be sad before I even see it. And I don't really know why this is I mean, I haven't seen a ton of foreign films. But also it. Could be because foreign films are often more real unless like Hollywood glam in my opinion. And so a lot of the pains that are portrayed in foreign films hurt more because the film is just more real because it's more believable. It's easier to see it in a real life sense. And hence, you feel it in a real life sense. CGI thing happens in a superhero film. You don't necessarily feel that pain because it's so far from what our reality is. But I felt like in this film and a lot of foreign films. The reality is so much stronger is to bigger sense of it all and so it makes the events resonate more. At least with me. So I guess that is kind of why I felt a lot of the tragedy of this film. Come through another thing in this film. Like, I mean, it felt tragic and like the whole film kind of did. But a particular part about it that did feel tragic was really the the class divide. And there's like this divide between servant and like rich boss like there's this relationship. And that's kind of what the story is grounded in because it is a live in maid and nanny who is with this middle-class, but wealthier family than she is. And she serves them and serve the family particularly children. And it reminded me of the servant versus like friend line that I felt will watching driving miss daisy. Like it made me question. Some of the love between the servant and the family characters. Like, I still feel like the love existed and the kids and the family often tell clear they love her and not that I think that's untrue. But all of those feelings of love they exist within a world that is separated by class. And I think because of that dynamic and that power imbalance. It made me question a little bit the love that was going on. And I feel like Cleo's character is. She's what's the right word. She is honest and forthright, and I don't feel like she doesn't doesn't love the family. It just also exists within that like separation of class, and you really can't unseen that. Also related to this tragic feeling I wanna say all the men in this film are the worst like Furman who is Cleo's kind of boyfriend is the worst. And is like a terrible example of a man like he's just awful. And so really after watching this film, a big theme, I thought of is gender roles, and in many ways, this film, like opens the eyes of viewers to the particular sufferings of women, but it also displays and hence solidifies the traditional roles held by them. Like, Cleo is the maid. She takes care of the children. She does domestic things the mother in this film. She does not work. She stays at home. And like you see a lot of the struggles that they have. And I feel like this can really again is a great way to not make you over pity the characters, but it makes you see like the struggles that women particularly women suffer from some of the things that are done to women, particularly, but I know that has to do with this the set in the seventies there are stricter gender roles, but it really solidifies like these are women, they do these things these things happen to them. And then you see the men who were of the worst. But you're like, oh, these are men. They do these things. This is what men do and it felt very strict in that. I mean, I guess to ask film set in the nineteen seventies based off of someone's real memories to break out of gender roles. It's probably asking too much. But I would just say it's. Something that reminded me of also the humor really comes kind of at the expense of stereotypes like the mother in this film is bad at driving. And so the humor like most of the humor comes from the scenes for bad driving, which is destroyed with like women are bad drivers. And then it also humor comes from like, the showy nature of Cleo's kind of boyfriend Furman, and like how men are like the the stable like men show off and try to impress women by doing all these things or whatever in that the humor came at the expense of those stereotypes really before I give my overall overall wrap up of this film and move on to talk briefly about the favourite dictate quick break, and we'll be right back. I'm Jay Farner, Quicken Loans, America's premier home purchase lender. We've created a new way to protect you from unpredictable interest rates are exclusive rates healed approval. I we lock your interest rate for up to ninety days. Then if rates go up your rate stays locked. But if rates go down your rate dropped either way new win call today. Eight hundred quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com. Regular approval only thirty year fixed rate loans pauper toxin for making conditions. Equal housing lender. Animal number thirty. Thirty exclusions may apply. Tired of searching, the vast jungle of podcasts. Now, listen close. And here this out. There's a podcast network that covers just about everything that you've been searching, the Golden State media concepts podcast narrower is here. Nothing less than podcast bliss with endless hours of podcast covered from news sports music fashion, looking entertainment fantasy football and so much more stop lurking around and go straight out to the Golden State media concepts podcast network, guaranteed to fill that podcast is whatever it may be. Visit WWW dot GS MC podcast dot com. Follow us on Facebook and Twitter and download us on cloud and Google play. Welcome back to the GMC movie podcast. We are continuing to talk about the film Roma. And we'll also be talking about the favorite, and there's so much content. I know I have to hurry up but films are so good. There's so much talk about okay. Overall about Roma this film, you need to go. See it's on Netflix. So it's not hard to watch. I mean, I feel like this would be great insead IRS. And there's a whole debate about whether this needs to be seen theaters. I'm sure whether movies need to be seen in theaters or if you can watch them at home, whatever I'm not going to get into it. You should see it. It's on Netflix. It's not hard to get. If you don't have Netflix steal someone else's like what we all. Do. We all the same Netflix account of like, an uncle or something, please watch it. And this film is so conveniently on Netflix that I tried to cook my dinner in the oven. While also watching it, and I became so transfixed in this film, while watch it that I burnt my dinner, and then like had ice cream for dinner, which is not terrible. But I was so transfixed that I completely forgot about my food which is. Very rare for me. I do not forget about food. But I did that's how good this movie was also in terms of the Academy Awards. I honestly do think this film should win the Academy Awards for best picture. I will talk about that. And later episode about my feelings about the nominees. But honestly, I think that it should win. I think it has the best story and the best writing in my opinion. Okay. Going on to the next film. We are going to I'm sorry. I'm hurrying. We're going to talk about the favourite. This film is directed by your goes length Humous it was written by Deborah Davis. And Tony McNair mic. Numb ara. It stars Livia Coleman as Queen Anne. Rachel whites as Lady, Sarah, Emma stone is Abigail. You also have nNcholas Holtz as Harley James Smith is good olefin. And this film is about the frail Queen Anne who occupies the throne while her childhood friend, Lady Sarah adviser, and as much of the governing new servant Abigail arrives. And her charm endures to the Queen creating very titillating fight for favorite. I just wanna say this film will not help you get all the historical facts. It really goes more into the gossip and steamy details of a almost for sure made up queer love triangle. So if you're looking for hard history facts, this movie is not it. This does touch on the wigs versus Tory political party kind of fight that was going on in the politics of England at the time. But even then it doesn't get all the facts. Right. So I don't don't come to it for deep. Historical truth ex-. Okay. Firstly? I want to talk about the acting all three women in this film are nominated a Livia Coleman who played Queen. Anne was great. Like, honestly, there's this constant like twisting of how you feel about her pity and sympathy, but then also like disgust and annoyance and kind of anger about. But she plays it. So well, I think all of the actresses. Fomer great. I think Coleman was the best. I mean, she's a great actor. But that's not a surprise. But she was spectacular. Also, emma. Stone was great like the thing with her. Character though, is I wish I could have seen a little bit more about her turn really because she starts as she has great character development of this very honest and good character to a power like hunger, hungry like sort of tricky. I'm not kind of evil character. And I mean, this is a movie, and it's already pretty long. It's not TV show. You know, it's not like game of thrones where we can just spend like multiple seasons like developing a character. But I wish I had seen more that's a minor. Critique, but I wish I had seen more. Also because Emma stone is so good in this role. I kind of like just want to see her act more. She was also so convincing Emma stone as as her as her character Abigail was that like she became this convincing like puppeteer that like her beginning innocence and sweetness just like seemed questionable almost faked me in retrospect after watching the film possess like, oh, she's so good at like this act. Like, maybe none of it was ever true. I don't know. But it was really good and the acting for the men the men in this film are so ridiculous. Like the wigs the makeup they have duck races. Like, it's they're almost the men are almost irrelevant to this film. But yeah, it's just a few like want to see like just indulgence of wigs and powdered faces than yes. You will see that here. It's pretty funny. I also want to mention the sound editing in this film is wonderful the use of sound to create like ambient noise, but like purposeful ambient noise is wonderful like the there's the sound of the wind rushing through the castle at night. Like, yes, that should be there in this film. But then the production team just turned up the volume on it, and like mixed it with like, this background music and other sounds, and it just creates this eerie like tension, building feeling and honestly, this is what sound editing and sound mixing should be like, it's so good. Like, I watched I man, and I felt that the sound mixing in that film was very good as well in very noticeable. But I think this almost better in the editing its spectacular. Also, if you rented in sound after you hear the after the credits roll or welcome as sorry as the credits are rolling. There's like music. But then if you stay like believe maybe half the credits, they just play this wonderful mix of sound like this beautiful ambient, like springtime noise mixed just wonderfully. And if you're in a theater, you know, it's just like all around you. It was very enjoyable. I loved the film, but I also particularly loved the sound overall. There is a use of like fancy fish. I wide angle lens. And in my opinion. I think it was used a little too much. I like sought in the beginning of the film. And I thought that okay. You used it. Like once I liked it. That's good. I don't need it again. And then it just got a little too much. I think it should have been like rain. Nd in a bit. Also, gosh, there's this final scene that. I'm not gonna tell you what happens. But a lot of people have wondered about it written about it. But it lift me wondering what it meant and like trying with all my might just a poll like artsy, meaning from it, which I like Br I got my own meaning from it. And I don't I didn't dislike the ending scene. But I didn't love it either. And I don't know their theories about what it means. I think it's interesting. I saw with my boyfriend at the end, I said, what do you think of the final scene? He gave me what he thought it meant. And then I it was very different from what I thought it meant not very different. But it was different from what I thought it meant. And I just feel like it leaves a lot open to interpretation which isn't bad. But I will say I didn't love it. Either. They're definitely had moments. Like this film is trying to be too artsy for me that was kind of annoying. Like, it's trying to show off how artsy it is in ways that are bit unnecessary. Like, I felt Roma did some of the impressive artistic moves better. Without it being annoying in my face. Also, the queer love scenes in this film are not gross or overindulgent. And they really they compliment like the plot. And the power struggle between the characters it's not just fan service thought that was really well done overall. You should go see this film. I believe it's still it's still in theaters. You should definitely go watch it. And I'm also glad that I got the talk about Roma and the favorite that are really two films. Both like led by amazing actresses and both films that are just great works of art that should be viewed. So I think that's definitely I think that's a win for the women a home. But this film was wonderful. Roma is wonderful, please see both of you want to prep for the Oscars. Have Oscar watch party in be able to tell your friends like I've seen this movie and just show off which is what I plan to do. Then you should definitely see both of these. So that you can sound smarter in cocktail party conversation. And that brings us to the end of the show. Thank you so much, please tune into the next GMC movie podcast episode. You listen to the Golden State media concepts movie podcast heart of the Golden State media concepts podcast network. You can find this show and others like it at WWW dot Jesus MCP podcast dot com. Download our podcast on itunes Stitcher sound clock and Google play. Just type in Jesus MC to find all the shows from the Golden State media concepts podcast network from movies to music, throw sports, entertainment. And even we are us. You can also follow us on Twitter and on Facebook. Thank you. And we hope you have enjoyed today's program. Space some regions are vast and empty other areas. We call closets. Fortunately, Kevin from the container store has answers. Right. Kevin. What gives you the power over space? I'd say alpha, customizable, closets with free, design and Elvis adjustable shelving. And drawers, I create space in any size closet. Kevin master of space and closets or just Kevin plus right now, save thirty percent on elfin installation and earn up to five hundred dollars credit through February tenth at the container store where space comes from wears music coming from.

Cleo director Netflix Academy Awards Roma Twitter Emma stone Dick Cheney United States Google Facebook GMC Affonso Koran Kevin master Abigail Heidi British Academy Furman Tavira
Whitey Pt. 2: James Bulger

Kingpins

47:56 min | 1 year ago

Whitey Pt. 2: James Bulger

"Due to the graphic nature of this kingpins crimes listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of murder and assault. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen. On May second two thousand eleven James. Whitey. Bolger sats in his Santa Monica California apartment watching TV. His chest was hurting again but that was a common occurrence these days he was eighty one after all on the TV. President Barack Obama was giving some sort of address. But why do you wasn't really paying attention to him? It was just background noise. But, then all of a sudden Whitey heard a commotion outside. People were out in the streets cheering and chanting U. S. A. U. S. A.. Whitey. Realized it must have been something Obama was saying so he turned up the volume whitey stomach dropped when he realized what Obama had announced a team of navy seals had killed Osama bin Laden America's most wanted fugitive a sickening feeling. Whitey. He was probably the only person in the entire country that wasn't happy that Osama bin Laden was dead. The sting operation reminded Whitey acutely of his own fate he'd been hiding from the authorities for nearly sixteen years, and now that bin Laden was dead, Whitey had just moved up on the F. B. I.'s most wanted list. He knew it was only a matter of time until the Fed's him too. Welcome to kingpins apar- cast original I'm Kate Leonard. Melissa murden every Friday we journey inside the ranks of all the crime rings from street gangs mafiosos to understand how it kingpin or Queen Pin Rises to the top of the underworld and why they fall. As we follow the lives of infamous crime bosses, we'll explore how money and power changed them and how it changed the community around them. This is a second code on James Whitey Bolger South Boston's premier crying load from the mid nineteen seventies to the mid nineteen, ninety s he used his position as an FBI informant to strengthen his. Power base, it was a prime spot to insulate himself from reprisal and rub out the competition. He didn't think of himself as a rat. He was a strategist last week we saw how Whitey climbed from lowly incarcerated bank robber to one of the leading members of Boston's Winter Hill Gang. He used deceit and treachery to further himself in Boston's underworld ultimately becoming an FBI informant this week we learn how white he became the sole leader of the Winter Hill Gang, his manipulation of the FBI and how his brazen overconfidence led to his downfall. Coming up we'll see how whitey started strong arming the FBI. This episode is brought to you by low depot today with interest rates remaining near historic lows. There's never been a better time to talk with depot about purchasing a home or refinancing your current mortgage rates terms and availability of programs are subject to change without notice loan depot, Dot Com LLC. One. Seven, four, four, five, seven MLS. 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By one thousand nine, hundred, seventy, five, forty, six, year, old South Boston Mobster James Whitey Bolger was feeling good. He just made a deal with an old neighborhood friend John Connolly to provide information on the Italian mafia to the FBI. Whitey and his partner Stephen Fleming. We even allowed to continue the illegal gambling and loansharking operations to maintain his criminal credibility. This was a fairly common FBI procedure at the time. However, informants were immediately cut loose and prosecuted. Should their crimes escalate into something so dire as to not be ignored something like murder. THANKS TO J Edgar Hoover. The cardinal rule when dealing with informants simply seemed to be make sure they never embarrassed the agency thirty five year old FBI agent John Connolly was happy with the deal as well. Informants with a lifeblood of modern FBI investigations. The roads are promotions, roses, fame, and power. It was by all means a mutually beneficial arrangement. Whitey spent his first year with the FBI proving he was a star informant. Passed along countless stories of the New England Mafias, inner workings who was talking to whom who is going to get hit who had faked a heart attack to avoid a grand jury subpoena everything of course, much of it was just mobster gossip but it impressed the Boston FBI office. They felt like they really had a man inside the city's underworld. By nineteen seventy-six, they had upgraded both Whitey and Flamy to top echelon informants. But whitey wasn't just feeding them harmless gossip. He was using his connection with Connolly to get his enemies arrested and protect his allies. On one occasion, he reportedly righted out the location of a rival hiding in New Hampshire on another. He supposedly lied to Connolly telling him that an enforcer of his who is accused of murder had quote unquote nothing to do with it all the while Whitey was consolidating his hold over his Winter Hill Gang. Gambling and loansharking were joined by money making practices like extortion and numbers, and even murder Whitey quickly realized that connally was willing to look the other way on practically anything he did. So long as Whitey delivered connolly good information on the Italians Whitey. was like a battery pack for Connolly's career. But soon, one of Whitey's schemes would show him just how far connolly was willing to go to protect his new informant. In the early nineteen seventies, the Winter Hill gang partnered with a man named Anthony Fat Tony Chula to fix horse races. They bribed jockeys with various sums anywhere from eight hundred to thousands of dollars just to throw a race. But sometime in the mid nineteen, seventy s a jockey working for Chula began cooperating with the authorities he gave up Chula who was arrested and sentenced to four to six years in prison in nineteen, seventy, six Chula broke. He wanted a commuted sentence and was willing to give up the Winter Hill gang to get it. He gave a list of names including Whitey, Bolger, and Stephen Fleming as accomplices I. The end of Nineteen, seventy eight, the authorities had all they needed for indictments. Whitey was almost certain that he would be going back to jail the place vowed he'd never return his only remaining option was to see if his contacts at the FBI could save him. Whitey met with connerly Southie townhouse and swore that he was not involved in the horse racing scheme true or not. That was enough for John Connolly. He agreed to meet with his supervisor and the prosecutor leading the case, and when he brought it Connolly's pitch to the two men was hard to argue against the FBI was gearing up to take down the Italian Mafia Whitey and Fleming had proven that they had an inside line to the mobsters top echelon informants like these should be left off any indictment it worked when the indictments eventually came down in nineteen, seventy, nine, White Sea, and Fleming's names noticeably. Nearly, everyone else in Winter Hill, of course was listed as culpable. For whatever reason, none of the indicted Winter Hill members made a big deal that white Ian Fleming weren't going to prison. They were unaware of the pairs informant status and probably chucked it all up to good luck as for White Sea with his friends all going into jail or potentially fleeing into hiding. He suddenly found himself becoming the leader of the Winter Hill Gang. had been a bloodless coup, but the greatest spoil Whitey reaped from the horse racing fallout was more subtle. He better understood his relationship with John connally and with the FBI. After all connelly protected the duo from a federal case while this didn't necessarily break any of the FBI informant rules. This is apparently the first time. He had taken steps to greatly bend them, and as the nineteen seventies gave way to the nineteen eighties whites he wondered how much Father Connolly would be willing to go to protect his prized informants. Now at the helm of winter, Hill Whitey and Flamy. Move Their headquarters to an auto repair shop on Lancaster Street. Only a few blocks away from the Boston Garden it was a more centralized location close to their friends in the Mafia and the FBI. Headquarters was soon compromised the Massachusetts State police status for short had been following whyte's Korea for years and were desperate to pin something on him as luck would have it. They stumbled upon the auto garage by accident in nineteen eighty and set up a surveillance post in a nearby flop house. The state police quickly realized that the Lancaster Street garage was one of the top meeting places for the Boston underworld. It was frequented not only by bookies and loan sharks but drug dealers, gamblers, thieves, and even senior New England Mafia leadership however a few months after the relocation the status were confused wide and Fleming's suddenly stopped doing business at the shop where had the mob actively gone? Thanks in part to John Connolly elsewhere it scenes. He'd heard about the state sting operation from another official and passed the message to Whitey not to talk business in the shop in essence connolly sabotaged another agency's investigation of his informants. The rules bent a little more whitey and Fleming were thrilled to have the state police off their backs. But that didn't mean the status had completely given up. They suspected Whitey was working with the FBI in some capacity and they paid a visit to the bureaus offices to complain while winds. Ian Fleming had connolly on their side the FBI's top brass was different story. They liked the information, the two men provided but with the pressure from the state police, the informants were quickly becoming a liability it wouldn't reflect well. On the FBI if they're star informants kept attracting investigations from other law enforcement agencies, the Bureau's leadership was considering cutting them loose, which wouldn't bode well for connelly not only with the two gangsters, his tickets for promotion, but they could seriously embarrass the Boston Division if the FBI if they ever decided to talk connolly needed a way to ensure white Ian Fleming remained informants for the full Siyabonga Future. Fortunately, the FBI was about to launch an ambitious plan in the fall of nineteen eighty bug the New England Mafias headquarters. Connolly saw this as an opportunity to prove how valuable the duo was. The FBI was unsure of where to plant a bug since they didn't have access to the Mafia's headquarters at ninety eight print street. But YTN Fleming did connolly told them to arrange a meeting get inside and write down any information they considered vital to the investigation. So in late November nineteen eighty, fifty, one year old Whitey and forty, six year old Fleming man with the Mafia. They chatted with the mobsters about sports betting and a sixty, five, thousand dollar blackjack debt that someone owed after the meeting Whitey and fluffy paid connolly visit the only evidence to come from that meeting was Fleming's poorly sketched map of the room. They were all in which highlights the windows, a television and not much else information was largely useless in helping the FBI determine exactly where to plant a bug. Regardless agents were confidence a push on an plans it anyway. From that point on White, Ian Fleming were portrayed as an integral part of the case against the Mafia. They were now locked in as informants whitey sensed it was a tipping point. He'd seen the FBI protect him in two separate investigations and he saw the lengths connolly would go do to keep him on as an informant as long as he didn't make any major ups he felt like he was untouchable but mistakes were coming and one would soon test his relationship with the FBI and stretch Connolly's rule-bending to its breaking point. Coming up an assassination puts Whitey's relationship with the FBI on the rocks. Hello Listeners Alistair here. It's the spookiest season of the year and podcast network has many chilling surprises lined up for you starting with its newest original series, a show that I host called haunted places. Ghost. Stories. Every week. Oh stories I retailed one of the scariest most hair raising ghost stories ever imagined. These stories come from all over the world including Japan India the UK, even ancient Rome and were written by some of the greatest storytellers in literature. 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I the end of nineteen, eighty, fifty, one year old Whitey bulger was feeling confident he and his business partner Steve Fleming were among the few remaining leaders of the Winter Hill Gang and thanks to agent John Connolly they had the FBI firmly in their back pocket forty year old connolly was feeling confidence as well. His handling of Whitey had made him a superstar agent in the Boston FBI office in his mind he had whitey in his back pocket. He couldn't have been more wrong. Whitey had grown overconfident after seeing how far connolly would stretch to protect him during the FBI bugging operation. And he was about to show connelly who really held the power in their relationship. John Callahan was an accountant and Wannabe gangster, and by the end of nineteen eighty, he was in trouble. He'd recently been fired from weld highlight. One of the largest highlight betting companies in the United States, a sports similar to handball or squash. The company's new leadership tycoon from Oklahoma named Roger Wheeler found out someone was skimming money from their prophets and he was planning to replace the entire financial team. Once world highlights books were audited. It wouldn't take long for wheeler to find out that Callahan had been taking millions from the company for Years Callaghan tried unsuccessfully to buy the company from Huila who refused in Callahan's mind this meant then that we la had to go fortunately. Callahan new just the men for the job. Whitey. Bolger and the Winter Hill Gang Callahan reportedly met the gang at the black rose pub in the spring of Nineteen eighty-one. Promised White t ten, thousand dollars a week. If they killed Huila Callahan assumes that with the boss dead, we LA's family would sell him the company. It seemed like good money. But whitey he had concerns his FBI contacts wouldn't be able to do much Oklahoma and wheeler had a reputation there. His death was bound to draw attention. But Steve Lemme thought the money was just too good for only having to kill one guy. Though he could be inflexible toward his enemies. No one had whitey's ear quite like Fleming. He cautiously agreed but that didn't mean that he felt good about it. Why do you said we're all going to go to jail. This will never go away never. On May twenty, seventh, one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, one, two hit-men waited for Roger Wheeler at the Southern Hills Country Club in Tulsa. Oklahoma, they saw him and to the parking lot heading to his car to retrieve something from the back seat in full view of the kids at a nearby swimming pool. One of the hitman crept up the side wheeler as he sat down behind his steering wheel and shot him in the head. On the surface, the hits appeared to be a success. But whitey's fees soon, materialized, we lose widow wooden sell the company. His sons were convinced that their fathers blatant daylight murder was Callahan's fault the Tulsa Police Force an FBI office to shared this belief knowing Callahan was an associate of the Winter Hill Gang. He was obvious who orchestrated the hit investigating the connection the Tulsa FBI. Reached out the Boston Office. Connolly. Interviewed Callahan who predictably said he didn't associate with Winter Hill. Gangsters Connolly then did his due diligence and interviewed White Ian Fleming who denied any association with the murder commonly reported all of this back to Tulsa as if vouching for their innocence Stonewall, the Tulsa authorities were out of leads and had to drop the investigation. See was relieved the F. B. I., had helped him cover up the killing of a prominent businessman in broad daylight when it could have gotten Harry the bureau helped him dodge another bullet unfortunately Tulsa wasn't completely in the rear view for Whitey it would soon come back to haunt him. In October of Nineteen eighty-one small-time South Gangsta Brian Halloran was arrested for his suspected involvement in the killing of cocaine dealer in Boston's Chinatown. Halloween masks bail but knew he was still in trouble. So he reached out to the FBI and told them he had information that they'd be very interested in. He knew exactly who killed Roger, wheeler. Fact John Callahan Halloran were friends and Hollerin claimed to have been present when his pal hired the Winter Hill Gang for the hit. But the agents leading the investigation weren't sold on how they're in as an informant. In light of this, they went to the head of Boston's Organized Crime Division to Suss out more information on Halloween shortly. Thereafter, Whitey received a call from John Connolly without any pleasantries connolly said simply. Hollarin' is wearing a wire. It was shocking moment a reversal even. Why is he had been brought on as the informant and now John connally was routing information to Whitey. The rules were no longer bending. They had snapped into connolly hadn't given Whitey any explicit instructions to deal with. Halloran but he knew full. Well, what is informant was capable of? That spring on May Eleventh Nineteen eighty-two Whitey and his protege Kevin Weekes Court, Halperin. Appear restaurants in Boston at around six PM Halloween exited the Paul and got in a friend's car to head home. Then whitey pulled up alongside them. He shouted Hey Brian before he opened fire shooting Halloran twenty two times. That hololens death wasn't the end of the investigation. There was one more loose end. Conley grew nervous when he found out that other FBI agents were planning on questioning Callahan. He reached out to Whitey warning him that Callahan was bound to break under questioning. He didn't need to say any more Whitey had an associate kill Callahan in the Miami airport parking deck several days. Later, his body was found in the trunk of a Cadillac a parking attendant had noticed fluid leaking from the trunk and the smell as frustrated as Whitey was with these buckles. They again undoubtedly proved connelly still had his back after all he had murdered a prominent businessman fifteen, hundred miles away from Boston, Whitey new the leash was off connolly was now complicit in his crimes. which meant within reason Whitey could pursue whatever enterprise he wanted. So he and Fleming decided to expand Whitey was now ready to attempt his most ambitious scheme yet transatlantic arms trafficking. As a strong supporter of the Irish. Republican. Army all I are a white. He felt compelled to help their fights against the British controlled Northern Ireland. He actually had Irish citizenship. Thanks to his grandmother. The IRA needed weapons than Whitey had access to both funds and transportation. As it turns out Whitey had been extorting. Southie drug dealers for some time their fleet of trawlers which shipped marijuana up and down the east coast could be of use Whitey's plan was to use the trawler, the Valhalla to transport guns and ammunition across the Atlantic to aid the IRA. And to help pay for its all white, he is going to shake down the drug dealers for donations. He amassed over one million dollars, which he then used to purchase firearms and ammunition. The VALHALLA was loaded with ninety one rifles, eight submachine guns, thirteen shotguns, fifty-one handguns, eleven, bulletproof vests, seventy thousand rounds of ammunition and several grenades and rockets. And at midnight on September fourteenth, Nineteen eighty-four the floating arsenal set sail for the Emerald dial there were only five men on board three Boston Irish gangsters a captain and mechanic turned drug dealer named John mcintire. Unfortunately the voyage was anything but smooth the Valhalla ran into hurricanes and nearly sank. For some reason why he had thought setting sale during hurricane season would provide good cover, but he'd failed to consider its dangers. The strategy nearly cost them a major deal with the IRA luckily, often more than fourteen days at sea. The valhalla made it to Ireland and met up with the IRA vessel Marita an once the weapons and AMMO were transferred. The valhalla headed home to Boston. Miraculously the operation was a success, also whitey thought a few days after the exchange Whitey saw news report that the Irish Navy had intercepted an IRA vessel carrying weapons the Marita Ann was under investigation. Things. Only unraveled more from there. Off to the Valhalla doctrine in Boston John McIntyre was soon arrested. Shockingly his arrest had nothing to do with gun running, but rather sneaking into his estranged wife's. In police custody, McIntyre panicked and spilled the beans about everything the arms dealing the drug operations and everything involving Winter Hill. The cops who arrested him had no idea how deep he was involved in Southie. So they called in a quincy detective who was already working with the dea they'd being tracking Whitey's involvement in the drug trade that hadn't been able to find a corroborating witness. Now it seemed like, McIntyre was then man the DA reached out to the FBI who sent a liaison to interview McIntyre. The liaison later claimed that commonly overheard him telling other agents in Boston FBI office that someone on the Valhalla had flipped, which spurred connelly to meet with Whitey the agent knew someone from the Valhalla was writing him out but didn't know who but Whitey had a good idea. McIntyre lived in Quincy, and if a quincy detective was involved, he had to be the rat on November thirtieth nineteen eighty-four Whitey struck under the guise of a party. One of his associates lured John McIntyre to a house on third. Street they proceeded to shoot him in the head and bury him in the basement. McIntyre was one of what would soon be three bodies buried there. Whitey took to calling the place the haunting. With the gun running debacle finally squashed why do you learn another valuable lesson stick with what you know? From now on his main focus would be on extortion and passing tips to Connolly. He even appeared to quit killing his last known murder occurred in Nineteen eighty-five connelly to was relieved that Whitey had settled down. It certainly made their relationship easier, which was indicative of what was to come why would allegedly aid him in an operation that was arguably the highlight of Connolly's career Connolly himself claimed that whites he played parts in the FBI's nine, thousand, nine, hundred, nine effort to record a mafia induction ceremony Connolly was ultimately able to bug the house where the ceremony took place recording the entire event. This recording was the holy grail of Mafia evidence. It would become the basis of many mafia related cases in the following years feeling he'd reached his Zenith Connolly retired from the FBI on December third nineteen. Ninety. His retirement fund had already been set by Whitey who had given connolly around two hundred and fifty thousand dollars during his years as an informant around the same time. Whitey and fly me to hung up their hats from the informant game without connolly they didn't trust anyone else enough to risk continuing. And they'd made enough money that they didn't have to hustle anymore. It looks like all three had won the game they got away with murder and we're entering the next era of their lives as free men but storm clouds were on the horizon, the Massachusetts State Police and DA hadn't forgotten about sixty one year old whitey. And they would soon pursue their old target with a vengeance. No matter how long it took. Coming up an aging Whitey. Bulger. Goes on. 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In nineteen ninety sixty one year old Boston Crime Lord Whitey Bolger retired from being an FBI informant after fifteen years of using the bureau to protect his criminal enterprises the aging gangster was ready to live off the fruits of his Labor ready for his golden years. Unfortunately, other law enforcement agencies weren't ready to give up on taking him down in fact, the Organized Crime Unit of Massachusetts State. Police had a new commander. Sergeant Tom Foley. Had A chip on his shoulder for a certain. Southie legend Foley had long suspected that Whitey was an informant on top of that. Foley had a grudge against the FBI because they routinely prosecuted fellow state troopers corruption yet. Let Their own corrupt agents retire quietly hoping to take down Whitey and expose the FBI fully concocted an innovative plan. He'd go after the bookies for years the Winter Hill. Gang had extorted Boston's bookmakers fully bet that one of them would be willing to talk and he was going to keep the FBI in the dark. Specifically Foley wanted to put the bookies assets jeopardy he hoped that if he took their savings, they'd want to cut a deal. Foley was right in Nineteen ninety-one. The Massachusetts State police seized over two million dollars from a bookie named Chico. KRANTZ KRANTZ had grown tired after pain Whitey? Protection money for years. It took little effort to get him to flip US attorneys soon used krantz and other bookies to build a racketeering case against Whitey and his right hand man Steve Phlegm e. By nineteen, ninety, four the case was ready for arrests. But this also meant that it was time to talk to the FBI somehow Whitey and Flamy when never confirmed to be official FBI informants. So a US attorney called the Boston FBI Office to find out once and for all, it took eighteen days for the FBI to finally admit that Yes whitey and Fleming had been working with them since the nineteen seventies and while the information surprised no one, it was the admission necessary for the studies to finally make their move on. Whitey. On January Fifth Nineteen, ninety-five Steve, Fleming was arrested. But as for Whitey Bolger, the police couldn't find him anywhere Whitey had disappeared. John Connolly had once again saved his old friend. Though he'd been at the FBI for four years. Connolly obviously still had friends in the bureau. One Pasta long word of the indictment and he alerted Whitey. So the aging gangster, packed his things and fled Boston with his girlfriend Theresa Stanley but Theresa grew tired of life on the run after only a few months she made. Whitey take her back to Boston. But before he left again white, he picked up his other girlfriend Cathy Greg-. Could handle life undercover. He had smashes of money fake identification and weapons hidden all over the country. Lucky for. Whitey. The FBI didn't want him caught so easily either he had become the agency's dirty secret and they certainly didn't want to give him the opportunity to spill what he knew to federal prosecutors according to some they quietly sabotage the search downplaying credible tips. Like one from a hassle on in southern California and they didn't even interview John Connolly about where Whitey could be until nineteen ninety-seven nearly two years after Fleming was arrested Connolly had no idea where Whitey was as the agents got up to leave. He said I hope he's never caught considering what it would mean to connolly if Whitey was arrested, he probably meant it. The FBI might have never pursued Whitey. If a judge hadn't released a six, hundred, sixty, one page report in nineteen ninety nine. It was damning and and how the FBI had protected Whitey and allowed him to maintain his criminal enterprises off the report. The Justice Department launched a criminal inquiry into the Boston FBI's practices. This led to the FBI arresting John Connolly just before Christmas of Nineteen, ninety, nine, all of Whitey's former southie compasses were eventually arrested and most of them flipped. The revelation that Whitey was an FBI informant made them question why they were protecting rat in two thousand white he was charged in absentia with nineteen murders in a federal racketeering indictment. This was largely thanks to the testimonies of his closest winter hill associates. John connally was then convicted of corruption charges in two thousand and two, and later convicted of the second degree murder of John, Callahan in two thousand eight in total. He faced a fifty year prison sentence and yet why he was still missing his trail had gone completely cold, and before long he eventually became number two on the FBI's most wanted list. Some bin Laden of course was number one. Throughout the two thousands tips on whyte's whereabouts sporadically came in someone thought they saw him at a screening of the departed in San Diego in two thousand six another claim to have seen him on the Santa Monica Pier in two thousand and eight. The FBI wasn't much better off in two, thousand, ten, the bureau admitted it needed help. So they brought in US Marshal Neil Sullivan a skilled tracker Sullivan quickly realized that the best way to get to wine t was to find his girlfriend Cathy Greg- unlike whitey Kathy wouldn't be hiding in disguise. Supposedly vein the FBI had to believe she'd be doing her best to look as young as she was fifteen years ago by mid two, thousand eleven they had created a thirty second TV spot asking for. About Kathy and run it during daytime talkshows. While some of the leads were dead ends, there was one with promise it came from Reykjavik specifically the former Miss Iceland on a EST daughter. To seen a story on CNN about the search for white and his girlfriend Cathy Greg- She was absolutely certain that the woman with Whitey was someone she recognized as Carol Gasco and the Carol. Gasco she knew was a cat lover Mary to an old comedian named Charlie and they lived in Sunny Santa Monica California as it turned out. Whitey, and Kathy settled down in Santa Monica California in Nineteen Ninety six and for the last sixteen years they've been calling the Princess Eugenia. Complex, home. The FBI sent local agents to stake out the apartment once it was confirmed that both Whitey and Kathy were still living in the building law enforcement decided to apprehend them in June of two thousand eleven on June twenty second the building manager cooled Kathy and told her that someone broke into that outdoor storage locker. Cathy said that Whitey would go check on it at around five, forty, five, pm eighty, one year old Whitey bulger walked outside and was immediately surrounded by FBI agents. They tried to force him to the ground, but he wouldn't comply there was oil on the concrete white. He didn't WanNA stain his slacks eventually white he was escorted to lax to be flown back to Boston. He was jovial in the car to the airport joking with the offices and criticizing their tactical errors. Back. In Boston wide he told authorities that he would plead guilty to all his crimes. If they let Cathy Greg- go he said. She did what all the cops prisons and courts couldn't got me to live crime-free for sixteen years for this they should give her a medal. That wasn't how the court saw though upon hearing she was given eight years Whitey was appalled but he soon have to face his own trial which began on June twelfth two, thousand thirteen. Prosecutors presented his laundry list of heinous crimes including thirty two counts of racketeering money, laundering, extortion, and involvement in nineteen murders. While his defense fought these charges, their main focus was embellishing Whitey's image as an honorable criminal they wanted to make it clear. He wasn't an informant he paid corrupt FBI agents for information. The also passionately tried to avoid discussing if he'd killed Fleming's ex girlfriend Debra Davis and Fleming's stepdaughter. Debbie Hussy. Killing women didn't fit with the honorable criminal persona they were trying to cultivate white. He didn't do much to help his image as a good guy though when his old allies testified against him, his outbursts were angry and explosive when his former protege Kevin weeks and to to take the stand whitey shouted you suck as the entire courtroom listened. They almost got in a fistfight then in there when the trial finally came to an end Whitey was convicted on thirty one of thirty two counts including participation in eleven murders. Strangely enough no verdict was reached on the death of Deborah Davis. His defense team had done that much. On November fourteenth two thousand thirteen James Whitey Bolger received two life sentences plus five years more and was ordered to pay nineteen point five million dollars in restitution. So often almost half a century he had returned to. The federal. Prison. System. Do you spend the next five years being moved from prison to prison he eventually earned a reputation for causing trouble other inmates. All of this came to a grisly end on October thirtieth two thousand eighteen when the eighteen year old whitey was beaten to death in the Hazelton Federal Penitentiary in West Virginia. No one has officially been charged with Whitey's death has of two thousand nineteen federal authorities are still investigating photos gs a former Mafia hitman as his killer. The suspicion is that he may have killed Whitey because he was despite a lifetime of denial a rat. The End Whitey Bolger had two stories. One was of a poor kid from the projects who grew up to be a cities criminal overlord. The other was more grim a tale of corruption and failure in some of the United States. Most storied institutions school. System Failed Whitey. It couldn't keep his interest and he was eager to leave the prison system didn't reform him instead he was a Guinea pig too horrible experiments and the FBI failed to allowing Whitey to carry out crimes in exchange for helping take down the Mafia. But this only meant he abused the FBI's power bending it. So he could rule South Boston for almost twenty years. No one was more aware of this than the bureau which has since changed its protocols. It now has updated guidelines for how to handle informants. Concrete's insurance meant to prevent suffering through the nightmare of a second Whitey bulger. Thanks again for listening to kingpins for more information on Whitey bulger amongst the many sources we used we found Whitey bulger America's most wanted gangster and the manhunt that brought him to justice by Kevin Cullen and Shelley Murphy to be particularly helpful you can find more episodes, kingpins and all other podcast originals for free on spotify Noda spotify already have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like kingpins for free from your phone desktop all. Smart Speaker to stream kingpins on spotify just the APP and type kingpins in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you next time kingpins was created by Max Cutler and is a podcast studios. Original executive producers include Max Ron Cutler sound designed by Dick Schroeder with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Madden, and Travis Clark. This episode of kingpins was written by Charles Brock with writing assistance by Kate, Gallagher and stars, Kate Leonard and Alistair murden. Remember to join me every Thursday for the all new series haunted places go. Don't miss the most chilling spirits ever imagined by authors from around the world follow haunted places, ghost stories free on spotify a have you get your podcasts.

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Free Climbing Yosemite's 'Dawn Wall'

Fresh Air

49:30 min | 3 years ago

Free Climbing Yosemite's 'Dawn Wall'

"Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from internet essentials from Comcast. Connecting more than six million low income people to low cost high speed internet at home. So students are ready for homework class graduation and more. Now, they're ready for anything from WHYY in Philadelphia. I'm Terry gross with fresh air today, climbing three thousand foot share rock face in Yosemite. That was long thought impossible to ascend. We talk with climbers Tommy Caldwell and Kevin George Jorgenson about the her stark journey up the dawn wall before the climb called Ross spent years surveying the law. I gathered a bunch of rope. And I walked to the top of the wall. And then I would repel down hanging from the rope and swing back and forth and analyze the surface of the rock run my fingers over at feel all the holds China unlocked, this incredibly complicated, vast puzzle called wells nineteen day ascent with partner Jorgenson is chronicled in the new documentary. The dawn wall. John powers reviews to new TV shows based on true stories, showtimes, escape it down to Mora and Bravo's dirty. John and Justin Chang reviews, the new historical comedy drama film. The favorite. For several days in January twenty fifteen national media crews and a growing crowd of people in Yosemite. National park were craning their necks upward anxiously watching two men hundreds of feet above on a vertical cliff of the famous out capitan rock formation, Tommy Caldwell and Kevin Jorgenson were attempting a three thousand foot free climb up a sheer wall that was previously thought impossible to ascend the ascent took nineteen days, and they remarkable feat was captured by a crew of documentary filmmakers themselves rock climbers. The new documentary the dawn wall is now available for streaming on I tunes and will be available on demand December fourth as you'll hear Tommy Caldwell became an accomplished rock climber early in his life but had to overcome some shocking and traumatic experiences before taking on his Astara climb including losing the tip of his enough. Finger in a table. Saw accident that many people thought would end his career Tommy Caldwell and Kevin Johnson spoke with fresh Air's. Dave Davies, Tommy Caldwell. Kevin Jorgenson, welcome to fresh air when most people think of rock, climbing, the probably thinking of something different from what you do free climbing. And explain the difference. What we do is we free climb on extremely large rocks, specifically El capitan the biggest rock face in North America. We spend multiple days up there, and we sleep in port alleges. And yeah, it's just rock climbing on a much grander scale. Right. And Kevin lemme people who go to go to a gym and come up with ropes. You guys don't use ropes or other tools to help yourselves advance face, right? Yeah. The key distinction to keep in mind is that our ropes are only there to catch us. If we fall it's not like we're facing death with every move that we make that's not our discipline. Our discipline is pushing the difficulty barriers boundaries pushing the difficulty boundaries of the sport. And that means you're following all the time, you're falling and failing way more often than you're succeeding. So you can imagine the ropes are pretty important part of the process. Right. But the ropes are slack when you're climbing, right? Every exams must be made with your own hands and feet. And that's all right. Yep. That's exactly right, right. It seems from watching this. There are times when you're supporting much of the weight of your body on the fingers of one hand, maybe just two fingers, right? How do you do that? Yeah. I mean, climbing on El capitan is extremely technical. You have to imagine that it's, you know, as sheer in his vertical as the side of a skyscraper. But what's cool about vertical climbing is that it's very balanced oriented. So if you have a nub big enough to stand on for your feet, it often doesn't take a whole lot to grip onto for your hands in order to make it all work. It's this really delicate dance at times other times, it's really powerful and physical. But sometimes it's just really precarious balancing act moves you usually you stand on knob. Yeah. What is that? Like picture a like a thimble or just like your your thumb sticking out from the wall just a little tiny surface area. So it's a matter of sort of how you distribute your weight and find leverage just the right places at the right times. It's I think a good analogy is choreographed, and you can compare it to choreographing a gymnastics routine or a dance it's highly precise. And that's part of how timing I spent those six seven years preparing was figuring out how to unlock the puzzle. And that consists of the choreography of the moves themselves across the rock when you're climbing. You are you have to advance with your hands and feet, but you are tethered to a rope. How is the rope secured to the rock face? So that it can catch you if you fall, right? So you have a two hundred foot rope as what we use. And as the first person climbs, they put in protection into into cracks if there's no cracks occasionally there's little holes drilled that have these bolts in them. And so every, you know, eight to twenty feet, you clip into one of these protection points. And so if you can envision that if you're climbing above or protection points that you're ten feet above it. And you fall you're gonna fall twenty feet. Plus rope stretch if that makes sense, and then you're Blair is holding the other end of the rope. That's that's you're climbing partner. So the first person goes up putting in these pieces of protection, they stop they Belay and the second person follows them up, and then you repeat that process over and over again until you get to the top. And so the protection that you you stick something into a crack in the wall. And then it gets it has these spring loaded things that expand and make it really stick to the crack. Right. Yeah. There's various kinds of protect. And we carry a whole quiver. But I guess primarily what we use devices called camping devices which have the springs like you're talking about. There's also nuts which are just basically these these little, you know, almost like you can almost think of it like a like a bolt and nut like that kind of nut and just slot them in V-shaped sections of the crack, and you know, rock strong, these things can hold thousands and thousands of pounds. And you know, the whole system works better than you ever imagined. It would if you weren't climber. Yeah. Now, just me imagining. It seems terrifying. It what are the dangers when can things go wrong. I mean, there's so many possible dangers on the Don wall specifically, I think our our main danger was icefall we needed to climb in the middle of the winter for the the conditions for the friction on our skin needed to be quite cold. So we climbed in the middle of the winter which meant every morning when the sun would hit the wall, the water that had frozen onto the wall the night before would shut off the wall and ice chunks would come flying down the wall CF to figure out ways to deal with that kind of stuff. Complacency was a big one since you're up there for nineteen days. You know, just overlooking being tied in properly or. Yeah. I if you're, you know, if you're a new climber in some ways, you're safer because you're wear of everything you don't get complacent. But when you've been doing such as so long like we have that becomes one of the one of the dangers as you just get too comfortable in that environment. And you mentioned a portal edge. This is is kind of like a portable tenth. That you that hangs from the side of the mountain that you sleep in. Yes. Our little nest up on the wall. It's a it's a hanging caught. It has a metal frame that strung with fabric and between hangs from straps into a single clip in points. And then a tent goes all around it. So yeah, it's your little pod and on L capitan specifically you ended up spending a tremendous amount of time in these porta ledges. It becomes you know, it's your home series where you cook. It's where you sleep. It's where you eat. It's where you go to the bathroom anytime, you're not climbing. You're in these Puerto ledges. Interested in how you got into this. Tommy, what were you like as a kid? I was I was actually the super shy under grown kid who is kind of mentally delayed. I had a father who was very masculine. He was a mountain climber himself a mountain guide and a schoolteacher. And so getting into it was, you know, that's kind of what we did is a family, but I got into it maybe a little bit more intensely because my dad was looking for something that would build confidence in his son and kind of tough him toughen them up a little bit. So we'd go on pretty pretty extreme adventures when I was like four or five years old. I've learned how to be, you know, thousands of feet off the ground by the time. I was six years old, which is not a normal way to be raised in the film. You describe your dad who was also a bodybuilder right competitive bodybuilder, you said in the film he was loving. But he definitely made you suffer and what? Yeah. Elective suffering. Yeah. I mean you super loving is super loving. He's like my biggest fan. I mean there were times where. Think even took it too far. And he he recognizes that in retrospect, like, you know, we would do these ski tours when I was four and five years old. And I remember one particular ski tour where I fell down this hill and fell into this hole in the ice, basically. And it was suspended upside down by my skis with the ball of my hat bobbing in the water. And luckily, my skis were strong enough to support me. But if it would have gone a little bit differently. I would have gone under the ice, you know, things like that. Where like man, that's a good thing. I made it through my childhood. It was a little touch and go at times. Yeah. Kevin jorgenson. How did you get into this? What kind of kid were you? My earliest memories are of waking up on the you know side of a river. You know, my dad was a rafting guide, and my childhood was spent rafting and hiking and hunting and just always in the outdoors, climbing of something that has been in Nate for as long as I can remember, my parents, tell stories of meat climbing. Trees and cupboards and fences and ladders and things like that before I even have memory of them. So I think it was something that's always been supernatural for me. But I didn't find the sport until I was eleven when I went to the grand opening of a local climbing gym, you specialize in bouldering, right? Kevin explain what that is. Yes. So I started climbing in indoors and after a maybe five year obsession with competition, climbing, I turned my attention outdoors. And I was really obsessed with a discipline called bouldering, which is just short powerful climbs that are maybe twenty feet or less. But then as time went on. I started to really get inspired by the bigger boulders, and I got really focused on a discipline called high ball bouldering, which like bouldering with consequences, essentially. So now, the boulders are not so short anymore. They're not so safe there, you know, thirty forty fifty feet tall. So there's this element of. Risk that I was attracted to not necessarily just for the risk. But for the beauty that these large boulders presented. I was just more inspired by them. And so you would go up those boulders without any without a safety road. Yeah. Exactly. So I really liked taking this dangerous proposition of climbing, a really hard really tall boulder, and somehow reducing the risk to a point where I felt comfortable going for it. So I would often because I was doing I two cents throw a rope off of it. I clean the holds because often there they had some lichen on them or they were dirty rehearse the moves. So that I knew what I was doing. I wasn't going to figure it out on the fly with all that consequence. And then went I felt ready. I would I would go for it. I pull the rope. And put some foam mats, we call them crash pads appropriately at the base and. Chalk up and go for it. And you never got seriously hurt. Nope. Was that true? Let's see. I mean, I broke a wrist once probably rolled some ankles. But nothing nothing critical. You both made it to this moment. Let's go. There's a remarkable part of the story that takes place in central Asia evolving. Tommy, Tommy you, and and some fellow climbers went to the central Asian country of character. Stan what were you doing there? Yes. So this is my first big international, climbing, expedition, I was sort of an aspiring professional climber. I was living on about fifty dollars a month. And I was dating a girl who got invited on this trip, and I managed to kind of weasel my way on a rope rigor, and it was a big opportunity for me. I was all of a sudden with some really good climbers going to one of the most beautiful mountain regions in the world in Kirghistan. And so we organized this trip we flew into this really remote mountain valley in an Kirghistan and were dropped off by helicopter. We're about thirty miles from the nearest road. And while we were there a rebel group called the Islamic movement of Becca STAN came through this region. The political situation is kind of complicated, but you know, in some ways boils down to opium trade for funding, the Taliban, and we were in this mountain valley. So they saw up on the wall. This. You know, a big base camp with a bunch of equipment. I think they had dollar signs in their eyes. They took us hostage and not too long after that, the Kirghistan military, the Kirgiz military showed up and this war broke out all around us. We had abandoned all of our food and clothing along with our captors and basically hide under gunpoint for six days from the Kirghistan military and this began with when you were up on a rock face and subtly. There's random gunfire coming up at these were the rebels signaling to you that you were to come down and submit right? Yeah. Our mo- our moment of getting taken hostage was when we were sleeping in our port alleges about a thousand feet up a wall, and the rebels showed up at the base of the wall. And they had these kind of long range sniper rifles, and they shot up at us. And we had to port alleges up there. They're about four feet apart and they managed to get these bullets right between the two port alleges. Yeah. It was. Pretty terrifying. Right. So they're marching you around after they have a skirmish with the the Kirghistan army, and well, you you end up being marched for six days with centrally no food by by one of these guys, and there's a desperate plan that you guys figure is your only way out of this. You want us. Explain what happened. Yeah. I mean, the whole time we're looking for ways to escape and our captors were becoming progressively weaker. As where we, but we were actually holding up a little bit better because we are mountain climbers and our captors at actually hiked over this big mountain pass before they even got to us in the first place. So we started sorta started out in a little bit better shape. And at some point, we realized are actually the other members of expertise expedition came up with the idea that are are planned to escape would be overtake our captors, and I wasn't on board with this. I didn't want to you know, I didn't you know, we had watched them killed people in front of us point blank. And I didn't want to have anything to do with that. But on our six night of captivity where climbing up this really steep mountainside. We're left with just one remaining captor because the the lead member of our of the rebel group had gone back to our base camp to try and find some food and it just became painfully. Obvious storm was rolling in. Seemed like it was going to rain. We were on the verge of hypothermia was certain that we weren't gonna live. If we got exposed in the storm on the side of this mountain. And so, yeah, it became obvious to me that our only chance of living through this would be to push our captor over the edge of this cliff because we're in really exposed rain it. Yeah. Actually, wasn't that the logistics of it were quite easy. Once we made the decision. And so that's what we got out of. They're pushed him pushed him off the cliff you balanced bounced off a ledge about thirty feet below us and then fell out of sight. And then we ran for about six miles to the nearest Kirghiz military outpost. Right. And as it happened. You just happen to be the one of you who was in position to actually do this to grab the guy's gun strap and push him over the side. Do you? Remember that moment what it felt like? Yeah. I remember it quite vividly. I don't think you forget that kind of stuff. Really? I mean, it was this overwhelming outflow of emotion. I was really concerned about what you know. As dating Beth rotten at the time who has an another member of the expedition, and she was really against us taking matters into our own hands. So just before going and doing this kind of went up to her. And I was like I think you know, the other members are expedition who had been talking about this. They don't really want to do it. You think I should do this degree? This is our only way to live and she didn't say anything. And so that was sort of my. Just my that told me that she was going to be okay with it. So once the decision was made, I scrambled across this ledges. He was climbing this really steep section. I grabbed the gun strap and pulled him off. And yeah, I mean, it's hard to articulate. I mean, I think it was. So intensive a moment that I remember it is almost like a dream scape. I remember the stars. Remember the moon? I kind of remember the the colors around us the colors in the nighttime kind of swirling in my vision. And then me sitting on the ground and just putting my hands on my head and kind of rocking back and forth. And being like, what did I just do? I can't believe I just did that. Right. Well, people people who are in the military are trained for this. And it's very very hard. You had to confront whether you could kill somebody. And is it turned out? You didn't. Right. But you didn't know that. Yeah. We didn't know this for several months. But reporter who was researching the story actually found out that the guy. I had pushed was in prison in Kirghistan, you know, he'd fallen down the mountain hit miraculously stopped on allege that was down there, you know, out of sight from where we were and he lived through it. Well, and of course, you were with Beth rotten, then girlfriend and climbing partner. Right. I mean, and you stayed together. You you got married, and you had you shared this trauma. I mean, she had you guys at both seen your captor shoot somebody in the head. And then this thing. Do you think I don't know? What was it like for the two of you to have inter into this relationship having shared that kind of experience? I mean, it's pretty intense. When we started dating we started dating a couple months before this expedition Kirghistan, so the whole romance was fresh after that experience. We we couldn't part we couldn't be away from each other the psychological effects of what happened to us affected us all quite differently, and I was really traumatized for about a year. But after that year, I think that I found the whole experience quite empowering, and that might actually be because I was the one who actually did the pushing like at some point. I was like man, I had the strength inside of me. I found the strength. And I went from being kind of worried about that too. Being proud of that. And so I became kind of a strong figure Beth on the other hand just you know, she just had a hard time. There's probably about six years where anytime I would leave her side. She would get pretty scared. And so. I just didn't leave her side. And we got married, and it was, you know, it seemed wonderful in a lot of ways. Like, we had this this bond that really you don't find everyday life because we had been something through something that was so intense together and the marriage in the end didn't last. Yeah. The marriage in the end didn't last. I think we realized that it just didn't start out in the best way. It was you know, there's a lot of codependency issues, and at some point she started to resent the fact that she felt like she needed MIR there all the time. We listening to the interview fresh Air's Dave Davies recorded the Tommy Caldwell and Kevin Johnson. The subjects of the documentary the dawn wall, which is on I tunes. They'll talk about their historic climb up the dawn wall after a break, and we'll have reviews of the TV series escape from Denham aura and dirty John and the movie the favorite. I'm terry. Gross. And this is fresh air support for this podcast and the following message. Come from WalMart. Nava Banerjee leads the product search team for WalMart dot com. Her team uses machine learning to try to predict customer needs and return fast, accurate search results. How do we become an intelligent personal assistant for our customers revenue than we understand them? We can give them exactly what they're looking for. And sometimes actually surprise and delight them to learn more about machine learning and the future of tech at WalMart. Visit WalMart today dot com slash machines. Let's get back to the interview fresh Air's Dave Davies recorded with rock climbers. Tommy Caldwell and Kevin Jorgenson about their remarkable free. Climb up a three thousand foot vertical wall of the famous out capitan rock formation in Yosemite national park there. Nineteen day ascent is chronicled in the documentary, the dawn wall, which is now available for streaming on I tunes. No capitan in Yosemite. National park is this amazing rock formation that a lot of people have seen. It's been climbed by many people. But there's this one rock face the dawn wall, which had not been client. Explain why it's called that. And why it seemed almost impossible to climb up to that point. Yes. So you're right out capitan itself had been climbed a lot, you know, historically. It was climbed to by aid where you sort of attached these ladders to the wall, and you climb the ladders free climbers. Got a hold of it in the early seventies. And so we started climbing it, you know, it just our hands and feet and the ropes for there to catch us. And there was about twelve routes on El cap that had been free climbed. But they followed these distinct crack systems to the right of center, though, was this big vast blank looking face. And to me that was the next level. It looked impossible. It looked like there was nothing to grab onto, but I'd climb so much on L cap at that point that I was the one person that new on these faces that look blank from afar, these little tiny razor blade edges sometimes form. And if you train yourself properly, you can learn to support your body weight. And then if you practice it enough, you can learn to move from one edge to the next and the idea of linking all of these little tiny holds for three. Thousand feet was the fascination behind it. So you spent years serving this and trying different parts of it. Right. You're essentially kind of what developing a map of these razor like holds. Yeah. Exactly. We gathered a bunch of rope. And I walked to the top of the wall. And then I would repel down hanging from the rope and swing back and forth and analyze the surface of the rock run my fingers over at feel all the holds trying unlocked this, incredibly complicated, vast puzzle. So that took about a year, and then that's when Kevin joined the project. Okay. So you climbed in January because you said the friction is better between your shoes in the rocks. Yeah. And being cold was absolutely crucial because. Yeah, the frictions better. But what that means is you know, like the rubber on your shoes is harder. So it doesn't sort of tear. When you stand on these little tiny footholds the skin on your fingertips is a bit harder. So your skin doesn't. Ariza Lii, and it took us a lot of years to figure out that being really cold was absolutely necessary. So that's why we'd climate night. So you could climb on a cloudy day, but not a sunny day because you needed to lower temperature. Exactly. So the overcast day kind of the same as climbing in the shade. Yes. Funny. The site that's out of L cap is this giant solar collector? So when all the crowds of people started gather at the base there standing in Yosemite valley, and it was like, you know, twenty five degrees, and they're all shivering and down jackets, and we're up there on the wall. And it's you know, nobody really knows that it would be like eighty degrees in the sun. And we'd be up there without our shirts on and everybody would just be looking up being like those guys are so hardcore their shirts on so. The route up was divided into pitches. You want to explain what a pitches, I think the best way to describe pitches. And you know, all the lingo of big wall free, climbing is to think of it like the tour de France and the way that it has stages big wall climbing has pitches in pitches or basically a rope length or less so typically somewhere between one hundred one hundred and fifty feet, and they begin and end in natural resting points. So it's not just an arbitrary stopping point for each pitch. It's a place where you can let go with both hands. All right. So it's kind of you get from one to the next and then you get a little break. Yeah. Exactly. And some are harder than others pitch. Fifteen was particularly challenging you ought to describe it. Yes. So for the first twelve or thirteen pitches you follow a faint, but still present kind of crack system, but then it completely dead ends it just stops in three hundred feet or four hundred feet two year. Left another kind of corner. Crack weakness system begins an inbetween is just porcelain. And these are the two crux pitches of the entire route pitch fourteen in pitch fifteen you're actually climbing from right to left. You're not gaining any elevations on the wall whatsoever. But you're because you're climbing between two distinct weaknesses in the wall. It's just totally blank. So you have to you're moving laterally. And at this point. I mean, they're what they're thirty two pitches in the clan. So you're like close to halfway up your what fifteen hundred thousand feet off the ground. Yeah. I would say thirteen hundred feet up right so tiny. How did you? I mean after trying for years what made the difference. How did you figure out to climb across the porcelain? I mean we had worked out so many details. I mean, I trained extra hard for the previous six months leading up to it. I decided for the first time in my life to try and drop weight. So I had lost like ten pounds in weight. And so, you know, a super lean superstrong the moves were wired complete perfectly into my mind. And then interesting one of the big breakthroughs was on previous years. We'd been climbing every day for months on end and are the skin on our fingertips would get really really rock solid. Like the calluses get really thick in on this year. We decided to take two week break and let those those calluses shed off our fingertips, and so on these really tiny razor blade hold having softer skin actually is better because the skid could mold behind the holds a little bit. And so my skin consistency. You know, it sounds so weird to talk about it made a really big difference. And so you know, that was part of it. But also there's so much. Leading up to it that it created flow state like I was just operating at a higher level than really any other time in my life. I mean, maybe it's happened three or four times in my life. Where I reached this really optimal flow state, and I was in that flow state of felt magical. I felt weightless, you know, I felt like I could fly kind of and that's sort of why you you climbing and a lot of ways you're trying to reach the state that just wouldn't happen in normal everyday life. Wow. So Tommy gets through pitch fifteen and he starts making his way up, and we have a moment in the film here where Tommy is reached wino- tower and Kevin is still back having not crossed this lateral pitch. Fifteen. So this was a moment where you could go ahead and make it up to the top probably on your own you guys communicating with each other at this point. Yeah. I mean, we were laying each other. You know after I did that pitch fifteen every night. I would go and I would climb another pitch of the route. I would get farther. Away from Kevin's high points and each time. I would do this. I would feel kind of progressively worse. And so when I got to one tower, it should have been this moment that was sort of the realization of this seven-year goal. Like, I knew success was absolutely inevitable at that point. But yeah, it didn't feel right. If felt hollow. And so I think in a lot of ways that's that's the power of the story was like we had to decide what was more important personal victory or sort of the brotherhood that we developed over all these years of climbing, and Kevin how did you finally pull it off? Who man? So the pitch fifteen battle it consisted of seven days, basically of attempts and failures and rest it all came together on my seventh day of attempts on never forget it. It was January ninth when I woke up there was something different in the air. I I looked outside. And it was cloudy for the first time on the. Entire trip, which is awesome. Because what that meant is that I was going to be able to climb in the daylight instead of the darkness. And there was also this nice icy updraft blowing up the wind. So when I stuck my hand out the porta ledge. There was this. Nice cold breeze, which is great conditions for climbing. I just taken two consecutive days of rest. So my skin was in the best condition that it had been in the in the past week. The condition of my skin was one of the primary reasons I was failing on pitch fifteen. My skin was all cut up and torn throughout most of my attempts. I was covering them in superglue in tape and just trying to push through it. But it just wasn't working. But after taking two days rest, I was able to climb without some tape on one of my fingers which made a big difference in the other thing that happened is that I decided to change my choreography at the at the hardest part at the crux sequence. Just to kind of. I thought I would have a better chance I accept. But I also wanted to trick my body into a new a new routine, you know, when you try something ten eleven times ten you get the same outcome. Your body almost expects to fail when you get to that point. So part of it was physical. I truly thought that it was the better way. But part of it was also mental. Yeah. On my second try that day on my seventh day of attempts. I think it was day fourteen of being on the wall it all came together. And it felt amazing. You can imagine. I mean, it was it was totally cathartic. If there ever is like a bottom of the ninth or Super Bowl moments in climbing. It kind of felt that way in the film when you Kevin complete that lateral pitch over this. Porcelain face, not only are you thrilled. And Tommy, but but this point there's a crowd down on the ground below this became a big media story. Did you guys want media coverage? Did you expect it now? Neither. Now, we definitely didn't expect it. I mean, when we started up the climb at the beginning of those nineteen days, it was just Kevin and myself in Brett's, and nobody else was around. I mean as middle of winter semi's pretty deserted that time of year, but Brett's cinematographer. Yeah, Brett was the Filmer. Yes. So it wasn't Intel Kevin started to fail that the story broke on the cover of the New York Times reporter named John branch was interested in what was going on. We're posting on social media. So he kind of took our social media feed and started developing these stories and those stories went viral, they went worldwide. And so by the time we topped out. There was like fifteen news trucks, and you seventy valley and several hundred people I think are climb was being live cast on one of the television channels and this had never happened in climbing. It was so bizarre. People come from all over the country to to see seventy what's it like to see it from twenty five hundred feet. Yup. When you're out there so much you start to notice these incredible natural phenomenons and one of my favorite was in the warmer months when the water would come down as water not as ice. Sometimes we get these big like gumdrops sized drops of water that would sort of float down the wall on on a big wallet. Seems like they're falling in slow motion. And when the sun is on the wallet creates this thermal updrafts, so you have this falling water, and then this updraft of wind that makes these gumdrops says water droplets float in the air, sometimes almost motionless right in front of you in the sun shining on them. So they're sort of glimmering and yes, unbelievably beautiful. What Kevin Jorgenson Tommy Caldwell? Thanks so much for speaking with us. Thank you. Yeah. Great. Thank you so much. Tell me Caldwell and Kevin Johnson are the subjects of the documentary the dawn wall, which is on items now, and we'll be on on demand starting December fourth. They spoke with fresh Air's. Dave Davies who is also WHYY's senior reporter after a break. John powers will review to new TV shows based on true stories escape from Dan Amora and dirty. John. This is fresh air support for this podcast and the following message. Come from season two of choice allergy and original podcast from Charles Schwab season, two of choice. Allergy is hosted by scientists Katie milkman, listen as she shares real world stories of people facing monumental decisions with special guests ranging from sports heroes, two Nobel laureates choice. Allergy also provides tools and strategies for making better choices in life. Download the latest episode and subscribe at Schwab dot com. Tom slash podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts or Swick additive cassia co host that planet. Money's the indicator owned explode. I mostly the economic us get daddy that I'm not sure that those those the S boost gonna sing NPR one on the scoop Justice podcasts these are high times for TV shows based on true stories, the new Showtime series escape it, Dan Amora which began last Sunday stars Patricia Arquette Benicio del Toro and Paul deneau in the story of a notorious twenty fifteen prison break this Sunday. Bravo will be airing dirty John starring Connie Britton, and Eric Bana based on the true story of a con, man. And the woman who fell in love with him are critic at large John power says these shows plunge viewers into two very different worlds back in the nineteen eighties. There was a bestselling book called smart women foolish choices, which was all about ruinous romantic decisions. Of course. Men make foolish amorous choices to the history of film, Noir is populated with them. But for deep seated cultural reasons, we have a special fascination with women who fall for Mr. wrong. In fact, that mistake is the pivot of two wildly different new TV shows both torn from the headlines escape Denham Morin is a new Showtime series steeped in the Hollywood movies of the seventies directed by Ben Stiller. Yes that been Steeler this gritty superbly acted seven parter tells the story of a twenty fifteen prison break from the Clinton correctional facility in upstate New York, pointedly even proudly dark it focuses on characters for whom the American dream is a bitter joke. Pecking forty extra pounds in thick upstate accent. Patricia Arquette plays Tillie Mitchell. The myriad overseer of the prison workshop who's a blue-collar Emma Bovery forever flailing toward romantic transcendence. She finds. Herself getting sexually involved with two convicted murderers, boyish, David sweat. He's definitely played by Paul, Dino, and Wiley, Richard Matt that's the supreme bonito del Toro who exhibits the slow easy. Confidence of the smartest python in the zoo. Here Matt makes his initial seductive overture to till June. Atom age mill Reagan's. It here is all right. It's an engineer Navarro. Ars? The people inside. Ankles too. You talk. And they're the angle. I bent. On that. Who? That's you. Naturally, what he wants isn't sex though, he'll take it. But help in breaking out. Escape. Denham more is the first real drama that Stiller has directed. And he's clearly onto something he displays a strong sense of mood, a vivid awareness of place and a keen eye for layered characters. Dino, sweat sees himself as a nice guy. Well, they'll Toro's. Matt is a gifted artist. Neither seems like a killer until he kills someone s for Tilly at times. There seems to be a struggle going on for her soul between Stiller and our cat. Who's nothing if not fearless where he Nejib toward mocking caricature. He began as a satirist after all she gives a spectacularly headlong performance, transforming the needy annoying, not very likable Tilly into a woman who may be lost. But is still all too human. No escape at Denham to move slowly sometimes too slowly as it carefully. Lease Matt and sweats prison routines, the painstaking preparation of their breakout. Antilles boredom with your dopey husband and the prison dominated village of Dan Moore. Yet, if the show often feels Dantley claustrophobic, that's almost the point a portrait of entrapment. It captures. The desperation of those who facing limited possibilities in society only endure by shattering the rules. You may think you've entered a much happier universe. When you begin dirty? John a new Bravo series based on Christopher Gothard ze. L A time series and podcast, Connie, Britton pleased. Deborah newell. A fifty something woman who would appear to have it made. She's good looking sports Gucci heels and unsuccessful interior design business, but she craves true love to. And she thinks she's found when she first meets her online date. John Mehan played by Eric Bennett. Handsome charming and giving he talks about having worked with Doctors Without Borders. John says all the right things when she nervously tells him she's already had four husbands she smitten. Not everyone is Deborah has two grown daughters. A sniffy schwinn played by Juno temple and wounded when played by Juliet garner who trust Johnson digital. They want to put a tracker on his car. No matter five weeks after she meets him Deborah's renting them a sixty five hundred. Dollar a month place in Newport Beach. What could possibly go wrong? What follows is an enthralling soon. Nami of lies delusions endangers. There's a reason why the podcast is head tens of millions of listeners and based on the three episodes. I've seen the series is exceedingly entertaining, if stylistically bland it's nicely acted by Britain, whom we root for despite Deborah's disastrous choices and by Ben who has the slightly detached warmth of the natural con man at the same time, you keep wishing dirty John was more ambitious what today's defining shows like mad men or the assassination of Gianni Versace sake. Expand outward to REVEAL OUR society dirtyjohn has the glossy thinness of a made for TV film from the Reagan era. Ticking upper middle class life for granted it never digs into the story beneath the story be Deborah's, culturally ingrained, ideas of romantic love, or her sense of entitlement filled with sunshine in oceanfront real estate, this show feel so light that it almost began missing those dark cells in Denham aura. John powers writes about film and TV for vogue and vogue dot com. As we take a short break. Justin Chang will review the new film the favorite. This is fresh air. This message come from NPR sponsor ADT, America's trusted home security company can help protect you against the break ins fires and carbon monoxide twenty four seven emergency response when you needed most more at ADT dot com gives look only got expedients you'll mind kids look at that. In those in Komen dole LS Manaf Ted radio hour explorers. Granddaddy the ass laugh. Most Yoenis he does the school demand. Does can Jonathan Toews. Yes. Homebrew in Gwen throw. No and NPR one own the sad just to spot guests, the new movie the favorite from the Greek director, your ghost Latham Ohs is a historical comedy drama set in eighteenth century England, starring Rachel vice and Emma stone as two women vying for the favor of the ailing Queen and the film won a screenplay award at the Venice international film festival or Olivia Colman was named best actress for her performance as the Queen. Film critic Justin Chang has this review from his early Greek films like dog tooth to his more recent English language movies, like the lobster, the director Yorgos lengthy, most has always enjoyed observing human beings under glass, his surreal deadpan satires sometimes play like elaborate behavioral experiments, set an absurd but rigorously controlled environments. You can see what might have drawn him to the pump rituals and excesses of the British. Monarchy specifically the eighteenth century reign of Queen Anne the backdrop for the wickedly, entertaining and superbly acted costume drama, the favorite it's a body blisteringly funny movie drum from a real life. Historical episode the screenwriters Deborah Davis and Tony McNamara construct an intricate psychological triangle involving the Queen played by a magnificent Olympic Coleman and two women competing for her favor. Played by Rachel vice and Emma stone, the result isn't as violent or out there as length the most is earlier pictures, but it's by far his most fully realized and emotionally resonant work, the three central characters in their motivations are so sharply drawn that for once they don't feel trapped by length Moses, cruelly, pessimistic, worldview, the stories most powerful figure is also it's most pathetic Queen Anne is a regal wreck of a woman her body prone to attacks of gout and her heart ravaged by grief at. Many children. She's lost over the years. Her most trusted friend and consort is Lady Sarah Churchill, the duchess of Marlborough played by Rachel vice as a scheming viper who ruthlessly manipulates the Queen behind closed doors. She calls an like a child one minute viciously. Insults. Her the next and some nights seduces her in the privacy of the Royal bedchamber Sarah controls, the Queen. So completely that she's effectively calling the shots in England's ongoing war with France a conflict that remains entirely offscreen. But her situation becomes a bit more precarious when her cousin a commoner named Abigail arrives at the palace seeking employment and begins working as a servant Abigail is played by Emma stone in although she endures some harsh physical punishment at first she's resourceful enough to worm her way into a position as one of the queen's attendance at one point Abigail serves hot chocolate, and Sarah as the to discuss the w-. War a scene that ends like many in bitter humiliation for the Queen other people really about the long Tech's. We'll be angry when French sorta amazing that wives flaunting that feels with garlic toys must not the road rough show Davide on dead. If we did it it is paying to win. We cannot be halted in this'll be we'll see all we can take us. From Healy's thousands. Nantou the clean most you cannot chocolate stomach sugar. Inflames it Cup. I'm sorry. I do not know what to do side give it to and you can get a bucket in two months. With its delectable wit and devilish sense of gamesmanship. The favourite at times suggests a sly historical riff on all About Eve, only with more swear words and sexual powerplays. Your sympathies are forever being tugged this way, and that and Robbie Ryan cinematography brilliantly captures that sense of flux as he sends the camera hurtling from one end of the queen's chamber to the other for all the gilded furnishings of field. Crumby production design and sandy Powell's gorgeous, costumes. The favourite doesn't just feel sumptuous. It feels gloriously alive. There are a few men hovering on the periphery like Sarah's political nemesis Harley played by nNcholas Holt who tries to turn Abigail into an ally. But the pleasure of the movie comes from watching these three remarkable women. They're escalating stakes and startling reversals of fortune. Every one of them turns out to be more complex and surprising than you. Might think as cold blooded as vices Sarah is there's something admirable about her. Brutal. Honesty, which she claims is a sign of her genuine devotion to the Queen stone. By contrast is a mercurial delight beneath her, warm, smile and spirited demeanor. Her Abigail turns out to be every bit as wiliest, Sarah and arguably even more calculating as for Libya Coleman who will soon succeed Claire Foy as Elizabeth the second on the Netflix series. The crown her performance here is nothing short of a stonning. Her aunt is by turns pitiful, and majestic beautiful and grotesque a childlike creature who has endured several lifetimes worth of tragedy. She's the achingly human centerpiece of a movie that means to be far more than a standard historical costume drama and thereby emerges as the finest historical costume drama in ages. Justin Chang is a film critic for the L A times on the next fresh air. My guest will be Romney. Now, he plays, Freddie. Mercury lead singer of Queen in the new film of human rhapsody. Alec also stars in the TV series mister robot. Join us fresh Air's executive producer is getting Miller. Our interviews and reviews produced an edited by Amy salad. Phyllis myers. Sam gritter Lauren Pennzoil how'd you some onto recent Madden lose eighty Fayette Challenor and Seth Kelly. I'm Terry gross. Paul. This price. Somebody put your bag. Figo? Body.

Tommy Caldwell dawn wall Kevin Kevin George Jorgenson John Kirghistan Dave Davies partner John powers Kevin Johnson Terry gross Justin Chang capitan rock Paul deneau Yosemite Beth rotten National park capitan Comcast
Casey Sherman, author of Hunting Whitey: The Inside Story of the Capture & Killing of America's Most Wanted Crime Boss

The Gerry Callahan Podcast

55:11 min | 1 year ago

Casey Sherman, author of Hunting Whitey: The Inside Story of the Capture & Killing of America's Most Wanted Crime Boss

"I it's a special edition of Galahad but guest a weekend edition I got tucked to author Casey Sherman about his new book hunting Whitey. It's a story of the final days of the capture, and the the killing of what he bolger and it's excellent. I do not have just any old author on I try not to. Read the book, and if I like it I, wanted him on, and I read this book and I really liked it, and I finished it last night, and I called up Casey and We hooked up today, and I got I got all the answers. They got lots of questions. In case he gave all the answers. It's good in this day of. true crime stories to crime podcasts I feel like this is kind of a true crime podcast. This is a casey. Sherman the author of hunting Whitey everything you need to know about the capture and killing of Whitey Bolger. Is the Gerry Callahan podcast. joining us on the. Front Casey Sherman Author Casey Sherman author of All kinds of books, so kinds of good nonfiction books beginning I believe with the story of your aunt who was murdered by the Boston Strangler. Almost twenty years ago now that the book came out, so this is my thirteenth book and Your Magin that Jerry Wow thirteenth I can't I can't I can't imagine it because it looks like a lot of work, man a work and what a fun to. The fun part, but you gotta done, and I have to say. Mean I've read most of your books and looking at the list of certainly you know we all know about Boston strong, which was a better book than movie. The story and I agree. With that. I don't remember Superhero in the book in the move. You had a superhero in Mark Wahlberg but I. Guess that's what it took to get done. And the finest hours and excellent Book Anna very good movie the. Twelve, the inside story of Tom Brady's fight for redemption. Dating now. Out in September, so we've we've got some early Tuesday stories to share. In the season. Comes about this with the latest hunting Whitey the inside story, a of the capture and killing of America's most wanted crime boss, which you did with co-authored with gave wedge former, Herald, reporter and I have to central Jesus last night I just finished it a slow reader you got to you know month ago. It took me a while, but it is excellent. It is an excellent read and I have to give credit because. I have this skepticism going into this when I get the Belco when I read about heard about you working on this book? Day Wedge I had my doubts, and it's the same thing with the with the Brady book or with Boston. Strong I wonder if you can tell me anything I don't know I. Really Want I follow. The news closely read a bunch of books about Whitey. Bulger's in Boston crime. My friend Howie Carr is. Is The authority on this. And I read all his books and I'm thinking I don't case. He's a good reporter and wedge is a good report, but I'm not sure they'll be able to advance the story. I do you have that same kind of skepticism going in assure I mean it's one of the reasons why we didn't jump in and right. Awadhi Bolger Book because we didn't want to go over anybody else's material whether it's Howie or Shelley Murphy. We were kind of backing off of the Wadi Bulges story until we got murdered in two thousand eighteen, and then we each other, we said well, what about the years that he was on the Rock, and what happened to him in prison? What was life like then so once? We got our heads around that. That's the avenue we hope to take the readers of and I know you. Do you do a lot of work of interviews? A lot of digging and you did. Not only. Did you tell me things I didn't know which. Kept me interested throughout the book the You save the best for less and say this that. This is worth a book on its own. I mean you get into the life on the run, which is good his whole life with Katherine. Greg and Santa Monica all the places he went before he hit out in Santa Monica the capture. Excellent, but then you get his life back in prison, and his ultimate demise, which is gory, and it's almost reads like a novel I. Know How it's GonNa end I know he's going get murdered. But you tell the story that it felt like I was reading about. John Wilkes booth or Lee Harvey Oswald were you don't know that much. You say normal I. Know about the guy who got murdered, but I don't know that much, too, but the murderer and you introduce us to Freddie Gee, how do you say last night? He's ready. Jesus or the soft cheese. Freddie Jesus which. As you know as an author reporter when you can bring people introduce people to a new character kind of evil. Not puree volleys, family guy, but he's a mob guy and he's a hit managed killer, and you get to meet Freddie gifts. Jesus and that you must have felt like this. Is something new this worthy of a book? Yeah, you know when we first got access to Freddie. Jesus daughter Taylor in how she introduced herself to us, and we started to interview her over time to get a little bit about. About Freddie's background in Springfield Massachusetts and then suddenly Freddie is writing US letters from solitary confinement at Misery Mountain. That's the place where he murdered. Whitey, Bulger in his writing us in rubber, tipped pencils because the guards give them anything sharp because they're afraid, he'll jab himself in the neck or kill a guard. Mean that's how close we got through the to the real source avoidable just murdering this book. And a obviously, it's lamb and we knew we kind of go to the store they beat him with. A sock full of coins is that correct? There was a it was a padlock in a sock and there was. A lot of rumors that came out right after the murder that he'd been castrated. That has is Zora gouged out. None of that is true but he was beaten so badly over the. Is that anybody that was looking into his cell from a distance what would have believed that his eyes had been taken how but he? He got what he deserved it ultimately at the end of the day. You know it's it's it's. One of the FBI agents that we follow in the book. Charlie Jian Turco, who carried that first leg in the relay race defined what he bulge. You're you know when I? When we discussed bulger's murder, he said you know what you live by the sword, and then you die by the sword, and then he says no screw that makes ball just seeing valiant. Was a slog. Here's a killer of women in got what he deserved that that is true, and that's one thing that stays consistent, and in not just in your book and every book every story about him I mean the the Robin Hood Myth died years ago. Although, you do revisit it with a priceless. Mike Barnicle extra article. Absolutely I highlighted that and laughed out loud. A Barnacle said he ripped off the lottery lottery on the lottery Barnacle, said he probably donate to the church. God wanted a Baris- meant. That is seen it in print again. Just remind you of what a fraud he was. And what a joke! The Globe is a, but there is a feeling throughout your book and every I mean we forget sometimes but Whitey Bolger was pure evil, even in the end even attitude in court I mean he just was a real sinister, dark human being until the end correct them. Until the end, but you know it's funny. You know we. We really followed what he bald. You're on his line and winter phase of his life, so his body's breaking down, but he still believes that could take anybody out in any any room yet. You know we get to a place where he's in prison, inmates in the yard, trying to steal the sneakers because they think he's just some old feeble clown in a in a wheelchair, but he but he's a he's an ordinary bastard as as a prisoner getting in arguments with prison nurse, saying that her day of reckoning is coming, which ultimately led? The prison warden in Florida the second prison that he was in to upgrade is health status ship them over to misery mountain, or he didn't last twelve hours, and misery moans in Hazelton, West. Virginia's Altun West Virginia the. Worst. You literally say that the warden through them to the wolves. Do you think it was by design? Do you think someone somewhere said this scumbag killed at least nineteen people, probably many many more killed women in a rip their teeth out. He was a pedophile. He was just the worst of the worst you think. A decision was made at some level I, mean you don't say this explicitly, but. You leave, leave US wonder leave. The Rita's wondering if somebody said, let's pro him to the wolves. Let's let let's let street justice or prison justice take its. Take over here. I mean that that would be a great Hollywood. Ending to the story, but honestly I think and Dave Wedge Moscow author. We think it was a happy accident that the warden in Florida was was very close. Friends Wink, wink, nod, nod with the prison nurse and once Bulger's starts to threaten this woman. He's like you're out of here and I'm GonNa send you to the worst. The employee's also. He didn't even care I don't believe. There's no evidence that we found. That would back up a theory that this was a decision made on high. Send Bolger to. To Hazelton. However you know that investigation is still ongoing, but you know we talk to guards that were in inside with Freddie Ge with Whitey Bolger and they didn't feel like it was A. Conspiracy at at a high level here you know Freddie Jesus. It just so happened. He served time with Freddie. White braintree gangster who is set up for murder that he didn't commit Whitey. Bulger put that guy in prison for thirty years, so Freddie Jesus had heard all these stories about what a scumbag wide bolger was from freeway shall and sure enough here comes Whitey. Bulger, who's in his same prison, served up on on a you know a silver platter, and Jesus is that old school gangster and he's he's a guy that. That he's an honorable killer, if if there ever was one, and he just wanted to exact some type of retribution on behalf of one of his good friends, yeah, you, you point to as where you is. What you guys did so well as it introduces us to a gangster and you do it, you know completely thoroughly. Tell us all about his family. His background is record how you know how he went from. Everyone goes bad at some point when they become gangsters and I. Know I'm not alone I know. People love this. People love when they read a book. Gangsters in the hear the whole story of where how they evolve into this monster. Who was you know? Become a contract killer or become a a lifer in prison now bashing people with with socks with padlocks in. And historic was great, but he's. He's the feeling I got at the end that that I loved. Is that Bolger for most of you know my life? Yours got away with everything. Right got away with everything he even even when they were closing in even when they had the case made, and he was going to prison, like like Fleming and everyone else, he got tipped off. He got away. He was a fugitive for how long sixteen? Years Living on the ocean and California may not the greatest flight, but he was free until his golden years. But when it all said and done, he paid a higher price than many of his cohorts I mean got away with everything he he'd kill them, but in the end he's in prison and they're stealing his sneakers because he's in a wheelchair and they're abusing him hell. He got busted in prison for masturbated. And it was humiliating he had to like defend themselves and say no I can't even do that anymore. I'm too old and I'm saying. This in a way is justice. I mean this guy. He can handle prison. He's been Alcatraz. He can certainly handle. Himself in the prison yard when he was younger, but he can't handle this being sent to totalitarian confinement for masturbating. His honor and dig. Away along with his life and what we learn when he first is convicted of the nineteen murders when he gets shipped to Arizona there's an attempt on his life there. He gets stabbed in the skull, and almost almost kilt, and he strikes up a friendship with a one of the inmates there that we interviewed for the book and now one of the great things about this book in the Access we got is you're hearing really from Whitey Bolger from the grave seventy letters that that he wrote. wrote his own hand that a lot of that information we put in the book. Are you really hearing from Whitey Bulger for the first time? And he tells this fellow prisoner, you know. He thought he was going to get prison, but when they give it to me I hope they give it to me. Quick because I gave it quick. Well I wouldn't call two minutes a lifetime, but two minutes of being beat over the head and shoulders with a padlock in a sock. Bulger didn't even get. Get Out of his bunk. Bolger didn't even have breakfast that next morning. He got beat to death. But you point out that he was looking like like so many people had looked in his eyes before absolutely me, which is great, you know I mean you think about Debbie Davis and Deborah Hussy, and some of these so-called innocent victims of Bulger's reign of terror. In what what were what were their last? You know was going through their mind when Balder was closing in on them I, hope he. He felt the same terror and fear that they did well I'm glad to hear you say that it is disturbing like in every book of read about him in the gang is how others like in Amman Toronto on around twelve years. I believe for twenty murders twelve years for twenty murders per for twenty more Bannon, and it's just that's just disgusting. It's nauseating and death fascinating. It also pissed off. Bulging bulbous was so angry that you know Martorana the tip of the spear had gotten twelve years. Here he was about to get life in prison, and he was more disgusted about all the prison time Catherine. Greg was was about to say right. There is a weird love story between Katherine in Whitey that is toll throughout the book from Bulgur, and through these letters buzzer was certainly somebody that hated women, but at the end of his. Fugitive life. You really leaned on Catherine Brig. who could have escaped at any time? but Catherine had always wanted to be the main squeeze so to speak in these life beyond Theresa Stanley as common law wife. First woman he went on the run winds in here. She is finally. She gets this guy on on her own and then. Scott Gary all of the special agent from the FBI just lures bald. You're out of that apartment on that day in nine years ago this month. It's great that you you guys did a great job of capturing that the whole process, the painstaking process of moving on him, and luring him out of the apartment, which was just full of guns, loaded guns, and they lowered him out, and they nabbed them in the garage to take a Nina. Pull oil and take him in Caffeine Greg is his girlfriend was on the with a multi. She never taught correct. She was senior talk. Through her lawyer Kevin Ryton to try to get her to talk, and and she just she talk and I don't think she'll ever tell her tail. She's that classic gangster. Mall will always stick by her man. One way or the other, but the FBI agents. Investigate, or interviewed rather for the the, but it's a coupon. Keep an eye on her. For the next couple of years in anybody that was close to Whitey bulger because what he bolger took off with about thirty million bucks, and they were only able to fine less than a million, so their safety deposits out there somewhere with that. Catherine Greg potentially knows where they are and also. In a halfway house across, you know, she lives with a Whitey bulger's nephew. Billy Mater Sung. Speaking knowing where the thirty million as you guys had some exclusive interviews including I, think the one with Billie Bolger Whitey's contemptible, loathesome brother, who helped Whitey when he was on the run paid no price. He's still collecting A. Two hundred, million, two, hundred, thousand plus per year pension I'm he's just a vile human being in my opinion, but you got to sit down with them. Does he feel any guilt at all helping? Whitey the serial killer row now. We've ever since that. He didn't really feel any remorse you know gave. Conducted that interview with building just knocked on his. In one day billy opened it now, billy never open this door so the FBI agents that were knocking on the door regularly throughout the entire manhood, but allow Dave in a they spoke for over an hour all on the record, and billy felt I guess he wanted to tell his version of growing up with Bolger Bulger, but you know we. Juxtaposed Billy's interview in the book with the FBI agents. Let's say he should be in a in a prison cell along with his brother. They have no. Can you know? Contempt for this guy. There's no. There's no question I mean it's. It's disgusting a think he's. Obviously the president of the Senate, and then ahead of U. Mass, join this huge public chick and living in south by the way where his brother you know, had this reign of terror for decades there he surrounded by people's lives were ruined, whose family members died of drug overdoses or were murdered. By bulger's gang, any feels no remorse, and in fact, at least in one occasion you know, took a secret phone call from from Whitey in an effort and obvious effort to allow his brother to remain free it I know. That was the one occasion that the FBI. Knew about what they didn't know. About was other instances where Whitey bulger would buy a car for cash and drive from Santa. Monica California all the way to the mid West. To Detroit Michigan to call his brother, and he would speak to bill, and this is. This is what Whitey Bolger had told. Inmate? Best friend while he was imprisoned that they had almost near regular contact with each other Catherine Greg was certainly calling her sister Margaret, mccusker almost on a on a regular interval and from Greg. When he when she left with Whitey she left her two poodles behind, and there's a weird relationship between Catherine and her sister Barbara, because Margaret had the two poodles euthanized. Didn't show bottom. You can imagine what that was like that first conversation they had A. Killing the killing everything for. Whatever dogs but I I? Certainly. Don't make the Bolger. Family seem sympathetic. visiting the prison there visiting there were in the court is brother Jackie and other disgraced former hack. There now or maybe they're not. They had one point sued for two hundred million. because. Why did you get killed in? Prison is still pending. That's still pending hang, Brennan, who was co counsel for Whitey, Bolger in the criminal case. He's representing the family in that case, so we'll see where that goes, but again you imagine the family, the gall of the bulger family to sue the federal, Bureau of Prisons for two hundred million dollars. For Whitey, bulger's murder. If they get it all, that money should go directly to Bulger's victims. It's true I mean you're talking about a guy who killed at least nineteen, probably many many more he he was eighty, nine eighty nine years old, eighty nine. That's way too old way too old I mean if he should have met is is in decades earlier. They're lucky he's lucky. He lasted as long as he did I mean do do the people. People in the FBI you talked to lots of including by the way Andrew McCabe. Yes, about that to they did. They feel silly like they've thought initially was obviously gone before nine eleven could have gone anywhere in the world after that he was in Louisiana. He traveled a lot, but there he wasn't a pretty open place. You know hiding in plain sight in Santa Monica there been a sighting of him in San Diego in a movie theater. Feel like they were they didn't. They missed something in that each state on the Lam for so long. Yeah, I do feel that way I think you know when we cover all the misfires as well and you look at it as a kind of a relay race. You know a few FBI. Agents took the case early. You know made some real grievous mistakes. That allowed Bulger to slip through the news in here. He is living point eight miles from the San Santa Monica, police department Dave and I were the only. Journalists access inside of Bulger's apartment, which was a real weird feeling long gone, but the ghost of Bolger seemed to be still there, but with the st where the gun I mean. We knew we cut the wall and put the Guy Absolutely. Plastered over, but they didn't do a very good job. Remodeling the inside in Bolger. Slept in the in the back bedroom days, Catherine and wine. You never shared a bedroom together because bolger would wake up at night, screaming because of all of these LSD experiments that he had participated in. The. Young woman whose teeth he ripped up because no, no, no, because correct but. It is you know there? There is something to say about turning a criminal into a kind of a super villain you know and I and I do think that the M. K. Ultra program certainly must have played a role in that audience upward two thousand LSD hits without your mind being altered in some crazy way, it just obviously made Bolger. You know the real, a homicide killer that eventually game right I. mean the the life on the Lam. At least in Santa Monica was pretty uneventful. You would say that there wasn't may maybe that's why he remained free. Because do so careful and he didn't do much, and they didn't They were very under the radar. He was very careful. Careful and I think the only time that I think. There was a threat on his life when he was walking with Catherine. Beyond the Santa Monica Pier One night when they were almost. A stuck up for money or a you know a robber with a nice, but bolger was strapped everywhere. He went showed. The Guy has gone in. The Guy ran away and Bolger I love the fact that he's a huge fan of Hollywood, so he recites these great wines from gangs. and. Bulger allegedly said to this guy. You never bring a knife to a gunfight. You can hear Sean Connery saying that same line in the touchable. Bolger didn't have A. An original thought in his head, the the story of how they got him. Obviously you go into it extensively in very good detail, but. Basically comes to this. The FBI took out a TV commercial. Would you say that led to the yeah well I mean what happened. WAS THEY I love the fact that Bulger was an you know. He had hatred toward women treated. You know Catherine like Dart and killed at least two women that we know of so here comes a female FBI. Agent named Noreen gleason and she's looking around the Boston FBI, agent seeing people kind of down in the. The dumps and they've lost their wilted to go on, and she says we're not going to get done with this crew. I need to bring in some heavy hitters fugitive hunters from around the country and we've been looking for the wrong person. We've been looking for ten years for Whitey Bulger. We need to start looking for Catherine Greg and if we signed her. We're going to find him so, but they had those old grainy surveillance photographs of Catherine Greg. The. Tipster let them know that Katherine. Greg head numerous cosmetic surgeries, boob job, Rhino Plastic. You name it. She had it so then. They started to really canvas all of these. Plastic surgery operations around the Boston area and finally found. Her surgical practice and that practice had these full close up photographs of Catherine Grey, so they created their own public service announcement for the very first time in the FBI history that they done this and they wanted the American public. Do believe that Catherine was in fear for her life. You know on the run with this chiller women, so they put together a commercial they. They aired it in markets all around the country that they could afford that. That they believe why. We might be hiding out in the one market they couldn't advertise in was La because they couldn't afford. But it was such an anomaly for the FBI to create its own ad that it became a news story unto itself so CNN picked it up the BBC picked it up and all of a sudden. There's a woman in Um Iceland who was a former neighbor of Charlie and Carol Gasco their aliases and she leaves three. Messages on the FBI's a voicemail via email and another form saying not only do I know where they are. I know who they are, and that's ultimately what led the FBI divulge her? Did she get the two million? She did get the two million and a great part in the book where Scott Areola, he's an FBI agent out in La a brilliant fugitive under he's on vacation with his kids, and he gets a buzz on on his cell phone, a text saying bulge assiting Santa Monica. Give us a call back. He looks at his phony almost deletes it or says this is somebody I'm on. Vacation was like what the? The Hell I'll I'll see what this is, so they revealed that it's a tipster in Iceland. And Belgium says well who took the tip and it was a US marshal that adjoined the bulge task force that eventually talked to this tipster in Iceland and Gary. All goes well I. Don't really like US marshals. I WanNa talk to her myself, so she gets. He gets on the phone with her in dialogue, and he says how you know. How much do you believe that this is why you your Caffeine Greg that we're looking for? And she goes well. I'm not one hundred percent shore. It's that I'm two hundred percent sure right. She was relentless and she deserves the money, and then they got gary. Gut Department manager the manager of the apartment building to help by telling him that he could get the were award Greg. Fifty grand, the fifty grand for Greg was still available, so he said I'll. I'll do that, so they set up a ruse where they told them the locker, his locker in the garage had been broken into, and they broke the lock and made it look like someone had broken it, and they told billy at Whitey. Asked. Why come on down check it out? Because someone broken, it was locker Whitey was very paranoid and cautious, but he's still went down the elevator by himself, and as he's walking to his locker, they nabbed him. They nab him in for the first time. Bolger actually. Chronicles that event himself in his letter. We have a letter from Whitey Bolger where he describes his own arrest in a second that he got down to to the garage, he knew something was up and he almost You know. He was afraid that the FBI was gonNA take them out at that at that very moment. because. He refused to kneel in a bottle of oil. They sell the oil correct. He said you could shoot me, but I'm not kneeling down in oil. And then. A neighbor stumbles upon this whole scene, and she's been told for years that Charlie gas goes got Alzheimer's. So this Alzheimer's patient surrounded by the FBI and she starts yelling at the FBI so spot, Gary. All the agent is thinking Oh my God. Did we get the wrong guy and Bulge chirps? You know I'm James Leaping. Bolger in! She's Ethin- craze. Don't listen to her. You've got the right guy and not. Why did James Jimmy Bulging Chat? Show some respect and call them Jimmy. Did the apartment manager get the fifty grand for Catherine Greg I don't know. Gary All. He was kind of you know he was. He was spitballing at the time he had to make. This arrest happened I'm not sure this kid got a red cent. How strange was it? Did, it or you did it sitting down with Andrew McCabe while it was, it was it was unusual. You know I. I did the interview with with Andrew, but you know there was a big. This, obviously well, the whole trump thing was going on and I actually met him on the Cape while he was there for an event and we you know we really didn't get into the trump issues. stuffy was dealing with. I wanted to really focus solely on what bulger's arrest meant to the bureau, and obviously it had a rippling effect throughout. The entire euro, but just just because it lifted the stain of corruption at least on the Boston office. It is the most maddening thing in every bolger story I. Read Every Book. Just like when Donahue and Bucky Barrett could taken out. do I. Have that Right Barrett. Barrett was going to flip. He was going to testify. The FBI tells bolger indirectly and they kill him, and it's then that was repeated over and over like anyone. That was even a hint of like Deborah of Deborah Hussy. Would? They were afraid she would talk killer. That's how we handle everything just potential that someone might rat on him. Meanwhile, he's reading on everybody and you're saying. Can you imagine thinking if I go to the FBI I'll be safe ago the FBI tell them you know whatever runaway go in I'll be safe. You go to the FBI and signing your death warrant. It she's not corruption. You think of corruption guys taking payoffs. That's one thing they took. Payoffs God knows from vulgar and Flamy, but setting up people who are trying to do the right thing is the most maddening part of the whole Bolger story in my opinion, oh. That's why you know in my opinion. John Connolly is serving life imprisonment Florida. It's not enough I mean. He should have been given the death penalty for for what he did I think of him though, and he's every day waking up in a Florida prison. I'm not sure if they got air conditioning, but he is I, it's he's not. He's not doing well. put it out a long road to hoe for him and I. Think about that every day to you know and it's interesting because again the FBI agents that we. Interviewed for the book, they were basically hunting bigfoot about know in the mid two thousands, and they were thinking. You know we don't know who is Baltimore is never met John Ethnic Conley yet every every case we are involved in that gets thrown in our faces every day, so we're going to go and find this bastard once and for all, and ultimately that's what they do. You I got a bone to pick with the you call. Whitey a trump supporter, but don't provide any evidence I'm not saying he wasn't just asking. Where's the proof? Okay well. That was interviews that we've conducted with one of his. With his neighbors and one of his neighbors did tell us he was a firm supporter, so we do have that on record. Wedge of my Very Liberal Co author. Trump. Pay. Doctor that that interview so I think he kinda slip that in there. So you know. Think of it what you will you mentioned? The unfinished memoirs of of of Bolger are out there somewhere. Will we ever see them I'm sure you find? You tried to get a hold of them and you probably should. And we think that a family member may have them right now, but again. What is it going to reveal? We feel like we're we've already published bulges memoirs because you know. They're in seventy letters that that he had written and Bolger. Always glorified is on accents, which is one of the reasons why he would not meet with Johnny Depp when Johnny Depp was making black mass. We've got a information the book where Bolger's describing. The of the filmmakers for blackness, constantly reaching out to Jay Carney his attorney, trying to get a sip out, but though the version of ball during black now so obviously was he is Irap. He is a government informant and bulging never wanted to see himself that way. He wanted to see himself. As you know, I wasn't getting in forgiving. Information I was getting information, so if the manuscripts out there, it is going to be that Robin Hood bullshits. He's been selling for decades. BARNICLE CO author the story when Emmy still around it is amazing when you go through the trial, and you have some great detail about the trial and him swearing in his outbursts in court, but everybody in the end turns on them, I mean weeks Martorana everybody turns on them he in the end. The portrait, the depiction from Barnacle, and the globe from others, and from his family members like billy. Is such bullshit. He's he's just. The is a rat. He's an he's an. A just a terrible human being treated everyone like dirt, and you could tell the that nobody felt any sympathy. Nobody had any interest in protecting them at all at all besides his family. You know and that. Will Not as he is, but they're. They're a bunch of rotten people anyway, but sure. But, but I will say that. That's one of the reasons why we wanted to write. This book is because you know. Here's a gang that doesn't get the opportunity to write off into the sunset or in his mind. He was telling the FBI investigators on the long flight from. La Boston that if he'd note knew he had a terminal disease, he was going to throw his body down A. Deserted mine shaft in Nevada just to keep that mystery going for as long as he possibly could, he didn't get that opportunity. He got beaten to death in prison. Everybody turned against him and he you know He. He got what he deserved that ultimately. Do you think there's? Two questions do think we'll ever. They'll ever recover the thirty million or any of it, and do you think the stories over now? Do you think you guys have written the final chapter? Well I? Think we're going to have to see what happens with the investigation to the US Bureau of Prisons. Think that'll happen before the money ever recovered, but you gave, and I will continue to kind of dig at the story and hopefully provide some updated information. Comes out in the paperback. I don't think any of the money is going to be recovered anytime soon. I think whoever knows where those safety deposit boxes are. They're gonNA sit on it for a while and then when the coast is clear. Maybe they'll go. Try to find it. You know other than Catherine Greg. Who could that be Jackie Bolger. Who Do you think has I mean I mean I I'm only speculating air. It would have to be Jackie or billy. Those are the only two that he really confided and I would say he can find it in billy more than he confided in. Brother Sharp Jackie? And Billy. At least Jackie paid a price. At least he got it at once. Billy Bill. Is GonNa, go to his grave, and they'll probably live forever. The the people like him. People rotten to the core like him seem to last a while We'll see you know. His wife just passed away about two weeks ago. Mary, so we'll, we'll see what happens to billy next. but you know he'll take the secrets to his grave. He's just like white. Why that was an interesting? Anecdote that he wanted to throw his body down a mine shaft, so no one would ever find him, and we would all wonder you know. He's still alive like. would be wondering for decades of be still alive at a couple of things before I let you go Casey Sherman I I wanna read. The there's some funny parts of this this obviously some colorful characters, but this I actually made a note. The funniest part of the book here is Is Mike Barnicle in the Boston Globe by Illinois? Let's face it. I'M NOT GONNA pass up to bash the globe, and this was their lead columnist after Whitey scammed his way into a lottery, Jackpot. We're not sure how he did it. He threatened somebody. You got a hold of a winning lottery ticket and the Michael writes layoff Jimmy Belcher calls them Jimmy. We only family members, and you know subordinates in the mob called. Called Jimmy, but not bark bark has no shame. He says for the first time in his life Bulge got lucky legitimately, and won the lottery knowing him, he probably already handed out money to saint. Augustine's figure that when he goes, and the odds are better than winning mass millions there will be some people left behind. It will say not a bad guy, not a bad guy. He's not a bad guy. Can you believe that? Later Dan Kennedy that fraud journalists. Journalism professor from north? Yeah, he. He called it satire. That was just Mike Barnacles. Use of satire in a ball, just kidding. About two frauds. But that's that's what you got from the Boston. Globe one of the reasons why I think the you know the crime spree, the the the reign of terror last as long as it did. Obviously, the FBI was instrumental. Is Brother Billy protected him? We know all those, but so does the globe. He had a great pr firm which the Boston Globe. At the time. You know we'll mcdonagh. Another we'll be who was close friends with. Bulge, so you know to them? He was James Cagney and Robin. Hood wrapped up in. You know together disgusting. I, think back. It's disgusting I mean I. Know People like you and me and how we kind of were ahead of the curve on this, but there was a time when people in a mainstream newspaper. was spending a guy who was ripping the t killing young. How old was Deborah? Davis when she to. Twenty two year, old woman, killing a rip, not torturing or killing riveter teeth out and burying her body in a shallow grave. That guy was not a bad guy. Of Boston Globe that is disgusting. I before I. Let you I one other question just for my own. I'm wondering I have a weird thing going on now. Where some days I can read I could focus and other days. I can't take my eyes off the TV or the computer. Because you know, let's be honest. The whole is on fire right now. We're GONNA apocalypse and I was wondering when you first sent me this book and told me about it. I said I couldn't decide whether it was a really good time. Bad time out of work. Because people have time, but their minds are you know occupied with the the you know the downfall of Western civilization I. My answer to that and I'll get yours would be. The pandemic is one thing I read during the pandemic, but when you combine it with the insurrection, it was hard for me to focus on anything other than the you know the the the apocalypse. Well, publisher made a calculated decision to release it during the pandemic. Because that's what we thought the only thing we thought we would be dealing with is people with a lot of time on their hands that were starving for content, and then the world gets turned upside down. By I mean every week. It seems to be a new sign of the pockets, so know fortunately for us. The book sales have been doing great, but this bookstores you know many of them aren't even still open yet. Read suffer us because we can't go in sign books like we normally would at the Barnes and nobles. They don't even have enough stock. For us to go in and make it worthwhile, so we hope that people continue to define the book in we'RE GONNA turn the book into a limited series because we feel like there's enough information in storyline there to spread this story out over eight hours as opposed to ninety minutes in a black mass or a departed. If you will I think again, it's just I mean if you think you know it all about vulture and lots of people like around at least around New England, think they. They, do you're wrong? Because you guys did a great job of UH, of of describing and telling the whole story of his demise whether it, you know the capture than the predominant prison, then the trial and the best part is the murder because you get to meet all kinds of new wiseguys, one little funny moment in the book that I just remembered as Bolger sends a letter to chip Janice is a prison buddy and he says bogus. Say hello to all my friends for me. He has no friends. Say. Who Me? In the end of this guy's got no friends and no family. You know he's. He had one kid who died. I guess he sort of had a girlfriend or had another common law wife, but they were probably more fearful of than anything and we'll. We'll friends the guys. He spent his life with turned on him so. Other than his disgusting loathsome family really had nobody, which is how you should how it should work when you're evil like he was, he died along died and pain S. yes, he looking up at a guy, was bashing his skull in with a sock full of with a padlock. Lock each side. It But I before I let you go I I'm always curious what you're going to work on next because you guys come up with some good ideas and. even if the story's been done before, you can take it to another level. Hey, homeowners! Did you know that my brother-in-law Greg has a huge selection of pre cast concrete steps whether you're building a new home or you need to replace an old stash? It has great values designs for any home, available in concrete or customized with beautiful stone, granite and brick a new staircase. Can dramatically upgrade the front entrance of your home. In most cases they can remove your old stairs and have you walking up your new front steps within hours? SHAPE provides lunch and learns get lunch, and you get to learn from engineers and contractors and one of their plants or at their office. Shea Manufacturers of variety of pre cast concrete products. Make sure you contact them. Contact Greg as for Greg. For any of your pre cast, concrete product knees in contact them at shake concrete dot com. You answer me I have a suggestion for. Free next book, it would be nonfiction I promise you. It'd be a huge bestseller. It would be topical and I would I for one with thoroughly enjoyed his my suggestion unauthorized biography of Alan Dershowitz. I would love to, and you know I've been going back and forth with a piece of. you know. I wrote about him in the Herald and he rebutted me in the herald the and I. Trust me, he is, he's on the list. I would love to tear him down. You know in, you know. He's carrying himself down every day, but. This guy is one of the most vile human beings in opinion. That's ever walked the earth. I will give you credit because there's a reason. Not More people do not criticize like you do and you know the reason. He is the most litigious human being on Earth Hell. He just wrote a book defending himself against the charges from one of Jeffrey. Epstein's Harum and I. You know I- Dershowitz claimed that he went to Epstein's mansion for a massage. A House a House that's full of pictures of naked young girls in the walls, and he just went there for you know a therapeutic massage that story falls apart quickly, but I would say Casey. You would have a lot of material. Probably be able to find a lot of people to interview and he would sue the hell out of you know no matter what could be all one hundred percent right, but he would say and you know if you're in the right, it would only help I mean the guy wouldn't be able to help himself he would. Would help you promote it sure. No I don't care and I think it's a brilliant idea. One that I've been giving a little thought to just kind of needling him every opportunity chance I get just because I like it I even asked him I said. What are you going to be on the vineyard I'll I'll meet you on the venues, and just you know, shouted to in a crowded restaurant of all the lives you destroyed. You know during your lifetime I got a better idea. I'm telling you I'm going to be your Agen on this project. You meet them on the vineyard at the Nude beach that he hanging. Out Great. I can't use picture. Alan Dershowitz there with a t shirt. Nothing else just bought him from the waist down baking sun over bald. Why did it? Why do you hate him so well? Just because you know, I mean especially with the Epstein case you know how many young lives that he just destroyed and that's really what would would would tip the iceberg for me. I always thought he was vile and a self promoter and just. Human being, but when you get underage girls involved when you look at them, and in your job is to tear them down I. Keep saying. How do you sleep at night now? If, that's if that's your goal in life then you're not somebody that. Deserves the title you have. And he's and he's eighty I. mean like I said sometimes the the bad ones last forever, Sir these ATV still out there. He wants a book like every three weeks and he's. Now, he's you know on trump's side, so he's get more airtime more facetime than ever because he's fighting for for trump against all his old. Colleagues. He's kind of made a whole new Three hundred thousand twitter followers. He's on twitter all day, and they just bashed the hell on twitter so I love reading the comments you know on my lunch break just. Put a big smile on my face I would. See I. Mean that's. Is. That's. David Harland. Up We're just finished a new book with James. Patterson on John Lennon so it's the last days of John Lennon's life, which will come out on the fortieth anniversary of his assassination, and we interviewed Paul, McCartney. We interviewed everybody around him. You know and it's. It's just really twisted story of not only Mark David Chapman, the killer but John and Yoko at that time, so even people that don't like the Beatles. I'm a big Beatles Fan but I. Think people will get something from it because it's a really unusual tale. That sounds excellent. You bring in James Patterson just to sell books I. Mean He doesn't actually type anything. Does he know well? We Co off the book with James Mattis. James's a great guy. I'M GONNA Guess Casey Dave, which did most of the type and on that one, but understand by the way James Patterson. Did A book about Epstein. And left Clinton out of it completely unknown. If you're wear this little. Bit Off off Scot Free, and then his next book was with Bill. Clinton, so I have some questions for you knew Buzzy, but he addison by the way. Big Story I shouldn't say story today. One of those you know twitter stories. Coming out ABC's got it. There's a movement now to change the national anthem along with everything else in our history books and statues and the national anthem they want. You know what it is. Imagine there's no country. So they WANNA make imagine the new national anthem, a song about getting rid of countries and borders and you Lenin. Wouldn't even like that you know. I mean Leonard was a cynical bastard in many ways and I. You know getting to know him a little bit through the research of the book actually like the more after the research that I did going into life. He would not like that idea at all you. You said it's not coming out to the remember sitting watching Monday night football with my father when they when Howard cosell announced the murder, so that was when November December that were that was December eight, thousand, nine hundred eighty are out December seventh in we go. We got an interview with the ABC News Producer. This guy named Alan Weiss. WHO said that information up to the booth where Howard cosell eventually told a world that Lennon was? Assassinated and this guy had just been involved in a motorcycle accident in Central Park in. He's in the Er when John Lennon wielding. We also interviewed the surgeon that was massaging. John Lennon's heart trying to get a heartbeat, but ultimately Lennon died in a sense and I know he lives with one hundred year old mother, but did you go and knock on mark? David Chapman's door now Mark David Chapman. Is he still in prison and made was getting. John Hang Quick Oh I'm sorry. But. There is a convenience mixed up. Yeah! John Hinckley was actually at the massive vigil in Central Park days after Lennon's murder and Later shot shot Reagan. Yeah Wow so mark David Chapman's in prison. I'm sure it's easy time. He's not like in maximum security or anything. Did you He's Wendy upstate, not actually. He's an upstate New York. We made several attempts. We wrote him and he just wouldn't do it and I think he's probably got a deal with somebody you know spills the beans again. you know the the week of of the anniversary, but we go into Chapman it. What a what a freak show! That guy was what all the all the bells and whistles were there. He was firing off sirens. For for months, if not years about killing John, Lennon and nobody took him seriously. Wow, that sounds excellent I like I. Say you guys? Come up with good ideas. Some people come up with good ideas and they can't execute them. You guys come up with good ideas and yet execute him, and this certainly qualifies for Latte. Hunting Whitey the inside story of capture and killing of America's most wanted crime boss. I would say you pull it off case he can greg. Really appreciate it Jerry. Thanks to so much excellent read. You know needed, but I wish you luck and I assume A. Assume you're on the go in the movie. Rights with someone as we speak correct while we're looking at you know. Bryan Cranston Ed Harris Woody Harrelson. You know realize. Yeah, yeah, we're. We're having some some discussions right now. As the WHO's GonNa? Play him the in the in the miniseries. Opposite Helen Mirren as Catherine Greg Wa. Role the way to see you. Know we're producing the. We're producing it and we may be onset. We may be in the. In the series in some seen, but I doubt. Excellent, well Good Luck Casey. Good job I appreciate a thank you. Why do you the inside story of the capture and killing of America's most wanted crime boss I gotTa Say I. Got The book and I was a little skeptical. I felt like I might read it and not learn a whole lot like I said of read everything I mean it's. It's good if you don't know anything about. Whitey is really good. Because you're GONNA, learn a lot, but I was afraid I wouldn't learn anything I. Don't like reading books I felt like I know everything of learned everything. Rid It all before and a red, all Howie, Carr stuff and. I read black masked by the globe. Guys and saw the movie and these guys to a great job. I mean there's new details throughout the book about Whitey's life, and in his life of crime in Boston, and all the murders and all the details, but then and then it really gets kind of revealing, because you learn all about his life on the run with Catherine Greg and where they went, and who they met, and how they managed to avoid capture and detection, and then they settle in Santa Monica and they feed stray cats, and which leads to their captured by the way feeding stray cats I won't give it all away. but they get. Then they go through the trial. And all the whiteys friends turn on him, and then he goes to prison and he's been. He gets flown all over the country. Arizona's and Florida ends up in West Virginia. At this place called Misery Mountain Hazelton. West Virginia were they know everybody they say to? People don't survive in Hazleton in misery, mountain, pedophile and rats, and there's a bunch of mobsters. They're doing hard time. Some of whom have no tolerance for rats including this cleanest Guy Freddie. Freddie Jesus is a springfield mobster. Casey Sherman Dave. Wedge introduce you to him and his whole family. They spent a Lotta time with his daughter. The guys like a normal family guide. For a while, but then he. Goes real bad starts you know killing people for the mob and he waits. Let's. Let's Whitey settle in for twelve hours. He gets into this new prison. Is There for twelve hours? Early enough time to meet his roomy roommate takes a walk. Whitey's alone in his cell and on video they could see Freddy in another guy. Big Paulie. go in there with their socks. The more padlock and a sock just beat the hell. OUTTA Whitey they don't rip is is out, but they do bash them in, and it's a just and fair and appropriate end. To this guy's what eighty years of of crime eighty seventy something years of ruining lives of destroying families of destroying Selfie of dealing drugs of Pedophilia and murder and rape and torture and. Just the most contemptible human being ever any any any dies as he should in misery in pain in agony. It's good I mean it's too bad. Billy, Bolger and the rest of this bolger client has gotten away with so much over the years, but. Why did he didn't what he did not go off into the sunset and live happily ever after which is a good thing, but these guys do an excellent job of Kinda doing that like I, said appeared to. You feel like you know everything about Lincoln everything above JFK, and then you learn about. The the plot to kill them. You know there's a great book about. John Wilkes boosts time on the run called manhunt, excellent, but very suspenseful things. You didn't know about John. Wilkes booth, and how we get away for a while and I was on the run. That's what this feels like feels like the last chapter and I didn't know all the details about the last chapter this is. A whole story of how it all ended for Whitey. And it's a happy story in a good story. Hunting Whitey. Sherman Day, witch Thanks Casey. Thanks, to colony of special edition, a bonus weekend edition of the Callahan podcast I'm Jerry. Kelly and I will talk you again Monday morning. Why am I stopping you? No one else stops. I don't I? Can I go home? Good Gerry Callahan podcast.

Whitey Bolger Billie Bolger Whitey Whitey Bulger FBI Catherine Greg Boston Billy murder Casey Sherman Freddie Jesus Santa Monica bolger Catherine US Casey Katherine Florida Freddie Robin Hood Billy Bill
The 2019 Oscars: Final Ballot Predictions | The Oscars Show (Ep. 128)

The Big Picture

1:27:39 hr | 2 years ago

The 2019 Oscars: Final Ballot Predictions | The Oscars Show (Ep. 128)

"I'm Shawn fantasy, and I haven't and this is the big picture conversation show about the Oscars which once again is on fire or maybe it's resolving itself. Amanda voting closed. The Oscars are just a few days away. We're going to be doing many things in this episode including predicting all twenty four races. That are coming to you live Sunday February twenty fourth, but I we really have to talk about everything that has been folding in the telecast, this, of course, is the big pictures big picture here. We go. In the big picture. Do you know what I mean? Man, we learned on Friday that the four shunted categories that the Oscars had been pressing for the caddy had been plotting to shorten this show. Two three hours are back on the telecast this fell to me like a real traditional news dump they tried to get it out at the best possible time of head of a holiday weekend. What was your immediate reaction to the news that we'd be seeing these four categories again? This is the right decision. They should have been in the telecast from the beginning and then fatigue, and then and just you know, it's like, it's good. We did the right thing is happening in this particular case, the hotel still a mess. I have a real bitter feeling about everything that's going on and not just the kademi at this point. I'm basically tired of everyone talking about this. We can talk more about the telecast length. But this is the greatest argument in the world for put in the authors. Like late January early February get it over with his I'm cranky. I know if you think about it last year, the the show aired in like early March and a few years ago at aired. Late march. So this is endless. It's fascinating that we're still adjudicating all of this stuff the last. I think the last ten or twelve days, though, has been approximately the likes of which I've not seen before this has been a very badly handled scenario and academy president John Bailey has really come under fire. He gave an interview to Anton over the weekend that I encourage people to check out on indie wire, he seems to not know what he's doing. There was a piece in the times on Saturday with Donna gig Liatti, Glenn waste, the two producers of this show. They don't really seem to know what they're doing. This is just been a tenured operation for since last August, and it was really going in the direction that we should have known. It was going the whole time, which is incompetence a general lack of clarity about what the purpose of this show is let's talk a little bit about some of the particular things that have happened. Do you credit the heavy protests and letters of protest that the filmmakers shared with the reason that we got these four categories back. Yes. And I think that's a really important distinction. There were letter sent from. Very big names to the academy. Scorsese Quentin Tarantino Spike Lee, and that is what the response, and there's a lot of people on Twitter being like, hey, we did it Witter's amazing. And look what we can do like, quite frankly Twitter has been complaining for months and no one cared at all until the actual celebrities and big names within the industry learned what was happening and signed their name to a letter. And that's that is what happened the kicker of Brooke burns piece in the New York Times is wonderful coach people to check that out as well. It's just a quote from Donna gig Liatti in which she says, I don't know how to use Twitter, and so that's really evident, and I'm not necessarily sure that knowing what people are saying on Twitter is the right way to make decisions at a high level, especially not for something as valuables the Oscars. There was a very under the radar piece about how profitable the academy was in deadline this weekend. The some of which is entering billions of dollars. This is a huge organization, and there's a lot of money on the line and the stewardship of this show, and this group is super important. So you don't necessarily want to be knee-jerk. About what some jerk like me says on Twitter about what they should do their show. But the consensus was powerful on this one. And it seemed so clearly self evident that every choice that they had made down the line was making people who actually care about their showing happy. And so this has been kind of a fascinating moment. What did you also take away from the New York Times piece while the show's not going to be shorter anymore? No, it's I mean, Dan, gig laddy says that in the piece it will no longer be three hours, which I I'm on record. I think that every single category should be aired live as it has been now. And I'm also on record thinking three hours is at completely reasonable ask and a time limit. And there is a reason that people don't wanna give four hours of their time because three hours is really long, and we can talk about this at length by the audience is being forgotten in this entirely. And that's okay. Because to an extent it is a word show. It is hand people trophies, and it is for industry glad-handing or whatever. But. As you just mentioned, there's a lot of money on the line. And they make a lot of that money at this award show by getting the attention of a lot of people, and they don't seem to have any understanding of what the actual audience wants or any respect for kind of audiences time or interest. And I kinda even felt in some of the backlash and some of the really really strident. How dare you? This is an insult to the history of movies that you would cut like live action short from the program. It's kinda like, well, you know, what most people have already given you lot of their time and money watching the movies. And now they're going to watch you guys celebrate each other. Because that's what we do and you'll make money off of it. And maybe you could just have some general for the most people gotta get up on the east coast and go to work the next day, and they don't give a shit. They just don't it's true. And and in general, I just don't think that the producers the academy the critics anyone is thinking about we're asking millions of people to watch our show. It's a unique anxiety because you have to serve a lot of different masters. If you're running the show. Primarily I think this has been relatively under discussed the master that you're serving ABC that's who has giving you all this money to put this show on. They are the network partner an ABC wants the show to be three hours. And it's very clear why. Because once you get past eleven PM on the east coast people are going to bed like you just said, they gotta go to work the next day. So they just don't care. If movies are in fact, becoming less crucial to people's lives. They don't maybe they don't care whether bohemian rhapsody or green book or black Lanzmann or Black Panther or Roma or any of these other movies half of which most people have not heard of scene ends up winning best picture. They just go to bed, and so they're they lose money when the number goes down. Now, I still think the number Michael of this year. We'll talk a little bit about that in a bit. Because I think they're doing an interesting job of drunks attentions themselves this year, but you know, Donna gig Liatti in this piece as we were hired to deliver a short and show. That's very clear she's hired by the academy and also ABC they're working together to make that higher. And she said how do we do that? So you're not seeing award award commercial award commercial award so boring. I have a countered that which is that. Is should be the Oscars. The Oscar should be maybe two montages maybe some songs and then awards it's an award show. The name of the show is the Academy Awards is not the Academy Awards in song and dance montages. So if feels like we're being insulted a little bit and to your point, I think the idea of do you serve the audience do serve network masters serve the filmmakers, if you've offended the likes of Martin, Scorsese, Spike Lee, have you broken this sort of sacred trust between the people who are being recognized here. And I don't know the viewership at large, and then also the academy, and then also the network there's all these different figures at play here. And no one's going gonna be happy you, and I've talked a lot about the struggles of live events in this century. This is an interesting case because there has not been this much noise around an award show in a long time. Can you even think of what's a precedent for for something like this before the Ord show itself? I mean, the last time that any orca matters. This matter. This much was La Land verses moonlight. But that was after the fact that was after things went wrong on live television. And we had a lot of people to blame. And it was also kind of exciting because moonlight and unexpected best picture winner saved. They more or less, but connects you to the sidebar about that the fact that you brought that up you know, for a year. So after that happened I thought that was a great thing for the Oscars. I thought it would stoke interest. I thought it was like, obviously, I I was very happy wit in particular. Do you think it's possible that there was some sort of loss in the public trust of the Oscars because that scene from a different angle was such a shit show? That people were like this is a joke of an institution. No, most people do not think about the academy isn't institution. And I think that that's a real thing. That's lost among the academy among ABC producers among the critics everyone who's talking about this. I don't really think about the academy that much as an institution. And I'm person who has spent the last four months doing a podcast about the Oscars, and who really cares about it. People are not thinking about decapa me or history or what its funding in terms of archiving at all when they're watching the Oscars that is basically just not on people's minds when they come out and give you a speech about how that's what the economy does. Everyone's really annoyed and they wanna fast forward or go get a drink or go to the bathroom like, no, no one, actually cares. And I don't know that you need to get the audience to invest in the institution of the kademi in order for the Oscars to still matter. I think that's actually part of the problem because it's so inexpressible to so many people like no one cares, and you can get them to care about movie history. And you can get them to care about movies. They can actually see and you can get them to care about movie stars. Or you can get them to care about exciting moments when moonlight wins or when a young person or her slowly Wentz for the first time or something unexpected. But you can't get people to care about like secret governing body in Los Angeles that congratulates itself Allott and also has a bunch of things in a museum that most people never never be able to say, I think you're right. I think people do think of it as more of a disembodied thing. But I think just as show like once upon a time as silly as it was the VM as meant something to people who were fifteen right. You just like I watched the VM as I wake up it's September seventh or whenever that show airs. I just I know that I gotta check this out tonight because my favorite bands gonna play or movie star. I like is going to be there. Jim Carrey is gonna give crazy wards beach. I remember that being my impulse when I was a teenager. I have to check out what a Jim Carrey is gonna do with Vietnamese. That's gone lost. Not not not only my old VM as just doesn't have the same power in the consciousness. The Oscars has always been able to withstand this kind of feeling kind of tumbled in the past. And I don't know. Maybe maybe it isn't maybe it can. I find myself having a an odd existential reflection. Given how much time I've spent thinking and analyzing and writing about this. And it'll be fascinating to see if the ratings are down again. And then all the sudden we're in that like this is just about as popular as the most popular sitcom territory in terms of the ratings whether something starts to really break apart here. I think that the ratings are going to be down because for the simple reason that people can watch this in different ways. And when you were talking about it's eleven and people don't really care about whether bohemian rhapsody are green book or Roma wins best picture. They can also watch the moment tomorrow on YouTube or on Twitter in like, two minutes. You don't actually have to stay and watch the live show in order to experience. What the interesting parts of it are anymore. How will they hear the big picture afterwards? I mean, you know, I can't go to sleep after the Oscars or making a podcast for you. But some of it is just completely separate from what the academy means to people, and what the industry means to people, and it's some of it's just really practical. Because most people are. Are not living and dying. You know, maybe a million people a million people really really care what happens on Sunday night. And what happens to the telecast? And that's that's a lot of people's or my people. But and that's a lot of people to be invested in the my new show of an awards show and a strange governing body, and that is still if only one million people watch the Oscars, you know, Hollywood the walls would come crumbling down twenty six million people was low there's been wringing people are really upset. So we don't care. Most people are just kind of like, well, it's tradition. This is what we do. And I'll give it a certain amount of time, and no more and the way that people actually consume television is going to be the main difference in how it goes and more so than the nominees more so than any sort of telecast controversy his most people just they got other things to do unprepared to eat crow on this because myself worth is very low. But in the event that the ratings are up, I think now one of the reasons for it is not going to be. The what theorized in the past which is that a star is born in Black Panther here. And those movies are very popular. It's very rare. It's virtually unheard of at the exception of Titanic and avatar that movie 'Success Black Panther and movie as successful as bohemian rhapsody are both nominated for best picture this. This just doesn't happen. So theoretically, there should be more interest. We just learned as we started taping that Queen and Adam Lambert will be performing those likely bohemian rhapsody at this award show that certainly not gonna make the show any shorter nor is that song nominated because there's record at thirty five years ago. But there is interesting Queen right now more interest than there's ever been and there's also interest in disasters. And we have disaster on her hand. We have a thing that we've been hearing about for months and months and people are just like what are they doing? The host fiasco, the shortening of the categories the attempt to get it to three hours that the difficulties of movies like grain book and getting into the mix year, there is all of this attendant noise. And if you believe that all is good publicity. Then maybe just maybe we're going up a little bit. Because again, we have to remind people that the front. Last year where the shape of water and three billboards outside of Missouri. And nobody had heard those movies. So this is a little bit of a different game. You're you're looking at me like you're not convinced I agree with you. And I think when we were talking about the Kevin Hart fiasco, and they were going back and forth. And maybe if you polish is if he doesn't, and you know, and they send out there to kind of give a soft ask the most bizarre magic nations I've ever seen. But my conspiracy theory was I think they know that if Kevin Hart actually does host ask people will tune in just to see what happens because he is so famous and because because he's so famous that was publicized. He was on Ellen. He was on good Morning America people were arguing about whether he should be held responsible for his comments. That was a big deal. I don't really think anyone cares about the categories. I really think that that's like the million people that we talked about it. And honestly, no one else knows. It does keep the the show in the mainframe, though. It doesn't mean that if you go to Entertainment Weekly dot com on Friday, and a lot of people do millions and millions of people do that every Friday, you're just gonna see a story in the lead about the Oscar. Why would you see that story if not for this mess that they've made themselves? In addition to these big things they've done all these little things in last few days. They they in that your time story they unveiled the stage for this award show, which looks like Donald Trump's hair. Like, that's just what it looks. Like, I don't know. What else to say that to me is the biggest indictment of the whole producing team. Because if you don't look at that picture and immediately think this looks like Donald Trump's hair, and maybe we should go on a different direction. Then you're just not seeing the world the way the rest of us are seeing the world. It's just just make it purple. You know, like it is literally that that gross. Hey color of his hair. This doesn't have to be anything about Donald Trump. It's just like this just looks like head. This is super weird that they did this. It's the only thing that you can see instantly. I don't understand how no one thought. Hey, guys. Maybe we shouldn't it's bizarre. So that happens. There was a little bit of back patting about the fact that no, quote, unquote, everyday people will be involved in the Oscars. Of course, Jimmy Kimmel involved a lot of traditional citizens. Chris rock did this number of years ago. To I would say that that was not my favorite part of the Oscars. But I also was not offended by those sequences, particularly I thought Chris rock kind of going out amongst the people, and they were seeing films was kind of a good like late night comedy bit that worked as interstitial in the show rarely took more than ninety seconds. Donna gilliardi, Glenn Weiss say, no moss. It just want to say, they sometimes take more than ninety seconds. And I thought that they were arming. But sometimes they went on for like seven minutes Kimmel's last year was was quite quite long perhaps a little bit protracted. However, there will be additional people who are outside of the movie making industry presenting awards this year, one of which is one of your favorite people. Serena Williams presenting for stars barn, which man, they just really they tapped your vein for that one. Yeah. That we have an unknown. They haven't announced to the other presenters will be I guess a century to present the nomination for best picture throughout the show in the way that they do any guesses as to who will be presenting. Well, Michelle Obama already gave her spot away at the Grammys. But it's mmediately what I thought of. And that was the happiest that. Anyone was watching? The Grammy's all night was when Michelle Obama showed up, and she was in a weird kind of music, empowerment speech. And I it was not really clear why she was there. But I no one cared. I didn't care Michelle Obama. So I don't think they would get Brock would they I could see it for Black Panther. Yeah. That would be big. Yeah. Although I don't know if he can be seen to be favoring one over another in some sort of voting scenario was fans are on his top ten list who can say I do remember burning was which was the worst thing that ever happened in the history of this show. I have to say burning stuff. Let's let's let's just all remember that Brock Obama's watched burning. That's just amazing shadow to Brock Obama anything that we want to say before we go to our next segment about this telecast, I mean, we're going to be there this coming Sunday night. We'll have a lot to say about it. This has been a fascinating sociological experiment in getting the annoyed at stuff on Twitter. I try to not have that persona as less as I can and frequently. I have felt like what the fuck are these guys doing as this unfolded? I agree. I just feel really sour. I feel unusually sour about the whole thing. And that is not how I one of the self professed million of people who actually do care about the Oscars and would love to be looking forward to it. And to be having a nice time should be feeling. Most people aren't going to care. Most people are going to be annoyed that it's a little long. But when you and I are this grumpy they've done something wrong. I agree. My my podcast persona ought to be cheery. And I just think that is indicative of a total lack of vision. It's a hard time to know what to do the 'askers because we keep talking about this. And I think you, and I have slightly different views on what it should be going forward and which audience or master, they should be serving. And what you need to do to bring the asker is into the twenty th century. We're in the twenty first century, right? We are in the twenty th century. I promise you we are nearly twenty years. I don't know things are moving so fast. It's a challenging time for the escorts. It's a challenging time for live shows. It's challenging time for movies. It's a challenging time for television and how people wash things so it's not an easy job. I'm sympathetic. I think the problem is that no one is willing to recognize the actual challenges, and they're just trying to sick with business as usual or put abandoned on stuff. And that is not it's too far gone. Can I make one other recommendation for who should present? Yes. Picture on the app. Maybe like a lead of battle angel. I should get her. I mean, this is Bill. No, okay. No. That's part of the problem. Right. Is that thing that would make you laugh? I would be like I'm so angry at you as much more ridiculous things than that. A dinosaur came on stage one year, it's not. A real dinosaur. They're extinct. Like, you know, look at traffic dinosaur. Animatronic dinosaur wants came out when the lies would was presenting a special effects Oscar, I believe in the year of drastic park nineteen ninety-five. Okay. So, you know, maybe we'll get a real okay with that. Okay. Now with the Lido with a an animatronic dinosaur. Let's put a pin in this. We will discuss not just the results of the Oscars next Sunday. But I think also how well did they do? And kind of what is this show supposed to be in the aftermath of this production? Because my gut says we're gonna get a completely different show next year, regardless of how this shakes out that they're going to rethink this whole thing that the offer is already out to Johnson to have him host like we're I think that they're already correcting this year's mistakes with gas. Although everything that they've done up till now indicates me that they are not because they can't even correct this winter take it seriously. But you know, I do hope that something good comes out of this. Which is that they realized there needs to be a sea change not just in the membership and not just in the telecast. But really what the Askar's are supposed to mean to people you have. Thinking of it at that. Sorry big picture at this point. My final thought on this is I'm just happy that cinematography is going to be on the telecast. Like, I don't know why I just feel like that's an award that if you like this the these awards, and you like movies and movie history. Think about a lot is notable that so many directors came out over mad about this because directors lean on cinematographers the way that wives leaving on husbands and husbands, lean on wives. You know, what I mean is a truly a partnership when you're making a movie, so anyway, let's go to stock up stock down. It goes bust. You can make ten to one twenty to one return, and it's already slowly going bust. I mean on Sunday night, the w as happened. This is yet another guild award show, the final guild award show, really. And at this point. Why do we even try to predict anything we talked a little bit about what we thought was going to happen. And we were wrong on both counts. There were of course, to primary awards for film at the WG as the first was for best original screenplay, which went to eighth grade, which of course, is not nominated for an Oscar. So that's fascinating. We should probably note that there were a couple of films that were not eligible for best original screenplay because of some arcane rules that the writers guild has which let eighth grade I guess exist in this category. Notably the favourite was disqualified. The favorite is the front runner to win. Best original screenplay at the Oscars. I think you could make the case that this didn't really matter that much aside from a great Boettger in a moment. Beaubourg hoax up that the award said to the other nominees in the category have fun at the Oscars losers. How is this? Happening kinda sums up bogans journey through the awards campaign of of his first film. What did you make of the eighth grade win? And do you think that there's any upside or downside to this the outcome here? Well, there's not because it's not nominated for the Oscars. So what are we supposed to do? Well, I did see handful of people last night reflecting on the fact that this means that greenberg's probably not gonna win that have green because not getting support in a category. Like this where the favorite is not present than that eliminates green book. I mean, these people have never watched the Oscars harsher. I mean he'd like good luck. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think we should talk about adapted screenplay as well went to can you ever forgive me, which is not at all the favorite for screenplay. Oscar. I'm just hanging these together as people having a little fun at their guild awards. I work with writers allot once time I was one to have their moment they like to have their own Mark on the world, and it's this late in the voting season. So it kind of facts Oscar. But not really it's too late to change your ballot. People had one day to change out essentially, I'm kinda taking these together as an expression of self and individuality rather than and also as an opportunity to say, this is probably not how it's gonna shake out at the Oscars. So we'll give awards to shoot people. We really like, which is great. There were a lot of sad shots of probably Cooper this award show. One more loss for Bradley Cooper sitting in front of WJ. It's really really tough beat for stars. Born can you ever forgive me? You know, I thought it was cool that Nicole hall of center out got an award. Like we talked about her last week. She probably should have gotten these awards for lovely and amazing or please give or any other number wonderful original screenplays that she's written over the years can you ever? Forgive me as solid I'm very interested in Marielle Heller career in the film. She makes in the future. She seems she has acquired an interesting, and and and really strong reputation in a short period of time. There's a great interview Jane curtain in the New Yorker this weekend. And she talked a lot about the difference between Marielle Heller set and the set the sets she's been on in the past. And there is a level of calm and clarity that she described working on your forgive me that she may had an experience, some other filmmakers. So, you know, I don't think can you ever forgive me. He's gonna win at the Oscars will get into that. When we talk about the screenplay categories. But perhaps you're perhaps writers are just going to writer, and they're gonna we're themselves into unlikely conclusions. Well, let's talk about this because. Should talk about the gals more broadly. But I don't mind the guilds using their guild awards as a place to just honor people that they really like or specific work that means something to them, even if it isn't going to win the big Oscar there's obviously some logical inconsistency. Once you think about how people vote for the guilds, and then vote for the Oscars many people do vote, but it's nice. Why not we have to go through? So many words it's really boring when everyone wins all the same things. So I'm okay with this. What's the is there an equivalent like in the literary world here, where there's, you know, the Pulitzers, but then there's like the pen Faulkner awards, and like do the smaller awards in other categories, ever, just go like fuck it. We're going weird. We're going on likely run. Unpredictable. I feel like it's not as not as common. I just you never even hear about them. I guess, but there are kind of in the literary were there are smaller awards. There's like a emerging. Writers or many kind of smaller prizes 'cause like different bodies want to reward different people and have their moment in the sun. And they do tend to be sprinkled out. If you could have a man Booker prize or WG original screenplay prize. Which would you take man Booker? Okay. Had a feeling that's where you going. Also, just because then it you have a literal book, and then it goes on the it's a sticker on the book. And so lots of people now I feel like man put man Booker has kind of brought her recognition at the end the writers guild of America, one of the strongest and longest running unions. We have just in terms of people knowing that I want an award just encountering in the wild. They're more likely to do that with a book then on my way Kapiti age. Well, you failed this personality test. I commend you mentioned the other guilds I thought that this is kind of a perfect ending to guild season. Because if we just run very quickly through a handful of these guilds, we can identify the top prizes that they've given out the producers guild gave their price degreen book when that happened. I thought. Green book definitely could win a lot of winners. Eight of the last ten went on to invest picture DJ's Roma. I still think Alfonzo Korans probably gonna win best director. It's not that crazy, but thought this would push us towards the Roma consensus the sag awards happened Black Panther. I saw two people as night that are very trusted awards insiders saying that this race is Romo versus Black Panther right now, which was fascinating. And the WD has happened. We've got eighth grade and Kenya. Forgive me. I don't think either of those homes are winning best picture because neither of them are even nominated for this picture and the as awards we had a couple of weeks ago bohemian rhapsody in the favourite one. They're the Golden Globes. Of course was bohemian rhapsody in green book, we've had just this messy array of choices from all the guilds and all these other bodies, I've never seen a year in which the critical consensus of critics prizes were less considered. You know, there's not they're very often not tons of crossover between say your Critics Circle elephant critic, circle, you know, the national board those those body sometimes dictate. Abroad or critical insight into what movies are good. Not good. Sometimes for better sometimes for worse. But this year that's not working out. Well, shout out Ethan Hawke, perhaps the most prized actor in the whole group. He's not here for the Oscars. So this is a very strange collection. I personally in my life of following this perhaps to a sad detrimental effects on my personal life have never seen something so dispersed, and it's got me questioning would were doing this for and are we now in a place where there are too many award shows. There's too much consciousness about these award shows, and it is creating a kind of I dunno distortion effect. You know, a field where we don't really understand. What is trying to say about what's good about movies? Well to me that's exciting. And that's actually the fun part. You know, if we could take away the whining about the telecast, and I think also we just wind for thirty minutes, and we're part of it. But this has been a lot of negativity around this award season. And there are always. Nominees that we feel not great about in this case, it's been particularly gnarly because of green book and bohemian rhapsody and all of the background on human wrap stands in particular. But let me just the same for you. If at the Golden Globes, the favourite wins instead of green book and comedy and a star is born wins instead of a human rhapsody for best drama, and then the guilds go as they are. So it still has disbursed, but we don't have the specter of the two movies that people don't feel great about kind of haunting the how would you feel would you feel different level hypothetical? It's very hard to say, honestly, because it's not so much about the nature of the films that are winning these prizes. It's not, you know, we've gotten a lot of feedback in the last few months about like, why did you change your tune on green book? I've heard from plenty of people who are like you guys got on this podcast very early on. And you said you liked green book and you found it enjoyable you had some misgivings, but you completely have changed your tune. I don't think that necessarily the way that you, and I have been talking about green book is in the sort of critical mask of understanding why movie is valuable or not valuable it's in the awards mask. It's we're trying to understand where movie fits into a broader narrative. And I don't want the people who made green book to fall off a cliff. That's not the way that I'm thinking about this stuff. It's much more about what is this about the history of this award show? How does it fit into this broader narrative that we're trying to unpack the last few months, and you know, I'm not bent out of shape about bohemian rhapsody being bad. I told you before we started recording rewatch driving miss daisy this weekend that movie is also very bad like bad movies win all the time. This is not there's the same goes for the. Conversation around the star is born we love stars born here. People are annoyed that we love stars born as much as we do. But people are like we'll start born isn't that good? We'll look at the history of the Oscars. There's tons of movies that aren't that good? That went all the time to me. I think if what happened what you said had happened happened, which is that we got a star is born in the favorite to moves. We like a lot more. It would have just been the same level of confusion in the same level of distortion that I'm talking about. So like if green book wins we're gonna we're going to render garments or all my God, we're gonna yelling Sunday night. But ultimately a more concerned with kind of like the bigger existential question of doing all of this stuff in public naked harder and harder to understand what the point of doing. This is. Well, it sit aside what we think is best, and it would be confusing, but it would be a different type of confusion. I don't think it would be as. Stressful and as heated, and it's hurtful to a lot of people if we were talking about stars born and favorite and as kind of the front runners, so okay, maybe here's a clear way to answer. What you're saying that that is addressing your question Moorhead on? We would have just found more troubling things about storms born like the minute that something gets under the hot spotlight. We start to interrogate it in a way that we don't interrogate something. I don't like black klansman is a fascinating movie that I like, but I think has some problems I think it has some structural problems. I think there's some things about it that I don't love. It's never been the front runner in any of these races. And so and spike is obviously way overlooked in the history of his career and his probably five or six movies. It should have been nominated for best picture best director, he's like a world historical filmmaker, but since it's not a front runner. We're not really examining. How like the third act is super messy and confusing. And we probably would be doing that. If it was in that space likewise stars born there have been a handful of weird commentaries about like the idea of alleys agency that I never really bought into. But maybe that noise would get a lot noisier. If it was clear that a star was out front. So I think that that's what we lost. But it wouldn't change. How I feel in the broader sense of the question. Yeah. And so you bring a good point, which is that maybe we can't talk about this civilly like, and that has a lot to do with social media and the way that we have all conversations. Now, I think you're probably right. I am just as cynical as you on that. But to the larger idea of being able to talk about what makes a good movie good that to me is kind of the point the Askar's. That's what's exciting. And I kind liked the idea in a perfect world. You would have the best case versions of all different types of movies. And we would talk about what we've Allieu, and I do think that talking about whether Alex agency is portrayed a certain way and stars born is different than the behind the scenes stuff with bulimia rhapsody, and and it makes people feel a different way. And you're suddenly talking about art, and how we represent women and pop music, and with that we make when you make a movie, or when we watch movie, and that to me is the point. That's why we're doing this because we like movies, and we like being able to talk. About them. And in my ideal perfect world that is far more interesting than me. Like, okay, we'll Roma won another award and Roma won another award and everyone in lockstep for four months. I think at some point we talk about this because we're all interested and we see things differently. And we wanna talk about them. Now. You're right. We can't create a safe place where everyone can talk about them with respect. And we can't create a place where the best movie is going to win because you know, humans are imperfect and it's never worked out in history. But it doesn't bug me that there's been inconsistency inconsistency is not the problem to me. It's interesting it allows for a lot of different conversations. I wish that we could have them in better ways. And I wish sometimes that we could have them with better material. But I think being able to talk about like, what makes a good movie is the point I agree with you. And I'm certainly not advocating for civil discourse. I don't think that that necessarily is the way to get the answer that we're seeking what I am trying to say is we use the word good. A lot and what good is and what that Valence really is is impossible to define and the fact that the kademi has been trying so hard to change up its membership. Because it's got this group of people that think something is good, and they don't want that to be the version of good that they put on the world anymore is the clearest sign that we have that this thing, and it seems sweeping but his true is in a crisis. It is. It is one of the longest standing American institutions that is publicly understood that doesn't know what it is anymore. And certainly the fact that I'm following at this closely as one of the reasons why asking myself all these stupid questions, but I find something particularly interesting this year. Maybe it's because ultimately, and maybe we can also just decide on this next Sunday. Maybe this just wasn't a great year for for movies. And if it wasn't is that y there's this dispersal, I often feel that every year that there are a lot of movies that I'm excited interested in are the years that it's not a good year for movies. And it's because there's not. Consensus among or there's not enough overlap of consensus among the academy voters and also the critics who loved first reform so much which is all I will say about that body of people. But I don't think it was a bad year. I think it's a really interesting year. And I think it's obviously messy that we have to remake the academy. It's obviously messy that there is one generation that feels one way and a younger generation that sees another thing in movies. That's also life that's happening across the world in every single type of institution or interaction that we have and movies aren't just movies movies reflect our lives, and what we wanna see ourselves and how we see the world and many people at 'specially you, and I use them to have those larger conversations about what we see in the world. And I actually don't see the problem in it. I think it's exciting. And I think it's great that more people get to talk about it. And I'm glad that we're not just all voting for Roma or I reformed or whatever. Because those weren't the move Roma was. A movie that meant a lot to me. But so often consensus means a certain group of people have decided that this is good. And it's exciting that other things were in the mix. It is clear to me. No, your vote is going to be human rhapsody. We're going to break down every single race at the Oscars. But before we do that, let's quirk from our sponsor. Today's episode of the big picture is brought to you by Bud Light. Did you know not all alcohol products are required to list their ingredients. That was news to me, bud. Light is changing the game. They believe that we deserve to peers ingredients. So they put an ingredients label right on their packaging. Bud light. Grew hops barley, water and rice, no corn syrup, no preservatives and no artificial flavors. Find out what ingredients are in your ear. Bud light. Enjoy responsibly. AB Bud Light beer, Saint Louis, Missouri. Let's go to the big race. Well, NAMA look at me. Now, I'm a star. Man of the big races. Every race. We're doing every race. I will try not to be labor this, but we're going to read the nominees of every category. And then we're going to somewhat quickly dictate who we think is gonna win. Not who we want to win. We can say who we want to win. But this is really about who we think is going to win these are predictions. You're ready. I'm ready. We're gonna start with visual effects your favorite category historically, long track this category. And understood the ways when they use computers instead of real life and movies. Well, this is terrible. Visual effects, the nominees are vendors Infinity war, Christopher, Robin. I man ready player one and solo a Star Wars story. This is one of the few. I think holy predictable categories in the entire Oscars who were going with vendors and finish assets. This Shelby immoral Oscar, and she'll be a masculine Oscar whatever I barely. Remember, what happened in this movie, but it won four awards at the visual effects geld? So here's my take on of interest in fifty were very good on the big fan. It's just something. I've said many times on this podcast. I'm gonna continue to say, I think as event movies go it actually did a lot of good things. Remember when you just kinda kept dramatically snapping at me in a meeting like I was supposed to get the reference, and I didn't get the reference that's my review of vendors Infinity. Love to snap. Like, then owes. Let's go to make up and hairstyle which once upon a time was not going to be appearing on the telecasts. Now is appearing on the telecast. Let me ask you a question if you seem border, no borders sort of like, the Scandinavian the wife, you know, maybe the wife is in the way. Stick it borders, very troubling movie about trolls, literally trolls should seek that out. I'm surprised it wasn't nominated for best. Foreign film is nominated in this category. The other nominees in this category. There's often only three in this category are border Mary Queen of Scots and vice this also feels like a fairly easy choice. Where what are you going with vice that is also the right choice is this how it's going to go where you just tell me whether my picks are right or not right as the okay, I'll tell you what? No. This is good. No, no. That's the I wanted to say that. I don't agree with that in front of this podcast is happening in real time. We will change the approach now you will read the next category. And I will tell you what I'm thinking. Okay. Do we need to explain vice it's because people like it, and it's wanted all the galaxy. It's the most scene of all these movies. It's one every guild the makeup team that worked on that film is hugely respected. Adema occa- has been going out of his way to to lobby for them for weeks and weeks. So yeah, I just don't think it's it's it's great cannon when Greg Greg Kadam is one of the great makeup artisan in American, Phil. Okay. So we're going to short films. Can you ask me this one because I actually have a good answer for this ready? You're just tournament table. Okay. And then we'll switch animated short film. They're five nominees. They are animal behavior bowel late afternoon. One small step and weekends. Amanda was your choice. I'm gone with bell. Yes. Okay. Because I think not to jump ahead or spoil anything, but Pixar isn't going to have the night that it might wanna have. But I do think as a result. It will get a consolation prize with bow bow courses domain. She and Becky Neiman. Cobs short film that appeared before incredible to it is as customary the Pixar short film of the year that is nominated for best animated short. There's almost always one. There. It often wins not always last year. Of course, Kobe Bryant one the in this category for your basketball, which is film. I would not recommend even move in. It's about and I think it's for a couple of reasons. One vows, lovely lovely film. It it does do that thing that all of these films do which is the sort of wistful Poignant's of life in an eight minute package. You know, there's something it's always reflecting on what life was like when you were eight, and what you could taste or what you could feel or what you could see or what you could hear that's Pixar brand writ large. But in particular, this category tends to events that if battles and went I'll I'll be shocked. It's definitely awesome as widely seen vase, which I think especially for short films makes a big difference. Definitely helps. Okay. Live action short. Have. You watched these now. Okay. So I have watched a few of them. This is a really bleak category, really bleak. And I don't know that I could recommend any of these movies to real people in particular. There's some real complications around the film detainment, which I don't really wanna get into. 'cause we could be here for a while. My vote is Marguerite. I think that's when I was doing my research. Everyone seemed to think that was the least depressing and therefore the most likely to succeed. Yeah. Both this and in the documentary short category. We'll talk about their feels it feels like the Oscars is trapped in nineteen ninety four when the only kind of film, you get across the line in dot categories or even invest picture were sort of important films with big themes and a kind of grieve quality about them. And it's interesting that those branches of the academy are still operating in a way that say the Oscars isn't anymore because it nominates stuff like Black Panther and black klansman like that probably was not possible in the kademi ten years ago. But the fact that detainment and mother and skin, and he's sort of like really dark and upsetting and stern pieces about the problems of our lifestyles in two thousand nineteen or still happening in these headers says a lot about what has changed in the economy. And what is not changing, I suppose it also says something about how to get people's attention and short amount of time important insured amount of time. You can just kind of see people thinking. Okay. Well, this was the tackled a big subject versus this. Was a delightful ten minute experience that I had and people do tend to revert to capitol important a non inanimate though. And that's that is that's the thing. That's interesting about this. I mean, it is truly about and maybe maybe the economy economy's films much like you do which is they don't truly respect them. They only respect them when they're taking people back when they're transporting them to their youth as opposed to trying to say something common. And now an important one of the reasons why advocate so hard for spider versus even though. It's a movie about multiple spider men and women and pigs that's chair spider pay. There's a spider pig. Think about watching it just think about it. It is it is the movie that is trying to say something real. I think about what it means to live in America twenty nineteen just may and also in multi dimensions. We go to documentary short. Yes. Do watch these. Now, I've read about them. Also, part of it was that I was I honestly was looking this weekend of can I go, and because they do from time to time release these every year as part of a program, but you know, what they're not easy to see most of them are just before Oscars weekend and some of them are on YouTube. Some of them aren't it's they're really not easy to see. They're not. I mean, there's only a handful of theaters that are showing it's still a pretty good bit of business, though, the the shorts this year have made almost two million dollars at the box office, which is pretty impressive. They're all sort of combined. So it's a big long sit. But I have watched everyone in this category. And. Similar similar scenario there. There is a kind of a graveness a darkness around some of these ideas. I think in particular fight to recommend one. I recommended night at the garden for a couple of reasons you can see it on video right now. It's just eight minutes long. It is essentially just an archival footage of a rally that happened in Madison Square Garden in nineteen thirty nine that was a fundamentally in Nazi white power rally in which in the pre World War Two America, ten thousand people gathered an Esa Square Garden and saluted Hitler. And it's a very bracing and upsetting movie. That is very worth checking out, and it's very clear, what kind of connections at strong to modern day in the kind of story that is trying to tell even though there's virtually no dialogue. There's a little bit of captured speech from from the event. These other films are much different there much longer. They're all twenty five minutes and thirty five minutes and forty minutes similarly serious, I watched black sheep last night. Which I think is is my pick to win. This award is at your pick as well. I went with period end of sentence so period end of sentence. And also endgame people can find on Netflix right now a night at the garden, you can find on video and black sheep and lifeboat are both available on YouTube via the guardian and the New Yorker, why did you choose period? Adam sentence, this reasoning of it seems that it was slightly less dour than the others. And also this is literally about ministration. Yeah. Well, this is the other thing if we're fast forwarding a bit. But I don't think RPG is going to win the documentary. And I think that there's always one female empowerment when that everyone wants to vote for and so if you don't vote for it in the feature category, you know, maybe they throw someone a bone. It's interesting I'm going with black she purely because of its filmmaking style the movie I thought of when I was watching it was moonlight. It's it's impressionistic. And there's a lot of reenactment is largely just a head on camera in. Review with the subject of the film, the young black English guy and everything that happens around when he talks about his youth just felt like moonlight, and that has become code for kind of like this movie matters, and it is all about feeling and and deep nece about living in the world, but period end of sentences and athletes film. They have a very strong legacy in this category. They won for the white helmets a couple of years ago. And who knows I mean, this is often unpredictable group. So we'll see what happens. What's next next is sound mixing I read the nominees Lewis Black Panther. But he mean rhapsody I man Roma and star is born great category. Interesting craft sound mixing, I'm my vote goes to bohemian rhapsody. I also picked bohemian rhapsody. This should be a star is born. That is no question to me that it should be stars born you can make a case for Black Panther. I think life anther is running second in the race right now. But bohemian rhapsody one at the sound awards, and it just this just feels inevitable rain. That's the same reason. I picked s in similarly the nominated team. Hypo- university, which is led by Paul Massey is one of the best in the world and Paul Massey's nominated for seven husker's. There's a kind of inevitability factor going on with this movie. So yeah, I think it will be Baheen rhapsody sound editing here the nominees Black Panther bohemian rhapsody. I man a quiet place in Roma. What say you? I'm going with a quiet place. This is a tricky category. It won at the motion picture sound editors and. I man has been bandied around Bo Sam categories as like, oh, maybe I man will actually get some respect. And I getting no respect I with all respect to you and your burgeoning love for I man, which movie I also thought was very good. But it has not been on the Oscars radar at all. I chose. I man. Okay. And and maybe I'm having second thoughts hearing undermined by choice. None. No. I think that that's why we're doing this. And it's important to kind of figure it out a quiet place made a lot of people very happy. It didn't get that big nomination. There's no best popular Oscar, it's not really nominated very many categories here. So this could be a good place for it to win as you said, I do have a burgeoning love affair with. I man having recently rewatch it this is anecdote oil, but I have heard from a number of people. Why did this happen? The first man. And there's a lot of reasons we talked about quite a bit over this show of the last few months when it was released the way it was released. The fact that it came after two huge movie events, the fact that it's a very quiet film number of reasons, why the sound editing in particular is quite. Passive, and this would be a credible place for it to be acknowledged. Nevertheless, maybe you're right. Maybe it's maybe it should be shut out. So that it can become truly an Oscar travesty. That's how it becomes an Oscar travesty is at Fertig a no love whatsoever. I would love for that for you. Okay. Let's go to the next category. Okay. Costume design, the ballot of BUSTER Scruggs. Black Panther the favorite Mary Poppins returns. And Mary Queen of Scots. I had Ruth Carter on the show last week. And I'm voting for Ruth Carter in her third nomination. I'm a little worried about this category. Though, what are you going with? I also picked Ruth Carter for two reasons. Number one. I think she really has gotten a lot of recognition which is not like usual for costume designers that, you know, people by name, and I've so she did great work. Also, I I'm picking her and also I would vote for her. But the other thing is that sandy Powell is nominated twice in this category for the favorite and for Mary Poppins returns. And this actually happens a lot in this category. It's always sandy Powell. Exactly Pels and fourteenth nomination. Sue in one sense. You could see her finally winning. But again, I think she's going to cancel herself out. She's one three times she's one three. And so this is one of those things where like sandy Powell is the Meryl Streep of the costume design category. And if she's nominated you should be concerned like you should be afraid that she'll win because she's one for films that are considered not great. But she's spending her on vote. Maybe I think that the Mary Poppins returns is sort of the Erin Brockovich to the traffic of the favorite. You know, there's the favourite is so the consensus, and so many of these crafts categories that I feel like a lot of people are just going to see the favorite in check. Which is something we'll keep talking about as we go through the rest of these categories. I hope it's Ruth Carter. I think that there is more invention in the Black Panther costumes than in any of these other categories. And there is something unique about elevating and integrating the idea of African history with superior mythology. That is just so impressive the colors and the shapes and the tactile nature of those costumes is amazing. I hope she win. I think she's going to win. We'll see next gory. Production is that so the nominees production designer Black Panther the favorite. I man Mary Poppins returns and Roma. Would he got? I went with the favorite here for the check box situation. Same and also because it is that traditional costume drama palaces wigs beautiful Sepe says and by the way, it's beautifully done. It it really it deserves it. But I do think that this is just a really classic the favorite. It's where it's kind of traditional aspects of the favorite kick in for the Oscars. I do also think it's nominated the favorite has been nominated. So many times that people feel like, oh, yeah. I liked it. I had the exact same take which that I think people just see this. And they'll be like this is like, Barry Lyndon and just check it. There is a case for hand. Beechler who was the production designer of Black Panther much like Ruth Carter. If either Hannah beat slur or Ruth winds. It'll be the first time in African American woman has one in a non acting category at the Oscars in thirty years. This is the first time an African American woman nominated in this category ever in the history of the Oscars. So if the authors wants to make history of unknowingly, you could see this happening. You know, I think it's not out of the question that Mary Poppins returns competes in this category to we'll just have to wait and see with the next category. The next how is film editing? Black clansmen bohemian rhapsody the favorite green book and vice so bohemian rhapsody one at the editor's awards. However, I'm feeling vice vice of courses that it by hand Corwin who with Adam McKay developed this kind of flash cutting style this this almost MTV influenced integrated pop cultural style on the big short. And has taken into, you know, potentially new heights in vice summer, saying not new heights. I'm really fond of what hang Corwin does. He's also been winning a couple of awards on the margins in the last few weeks to indicate that there's a lot of love for what he has done on these last couple of films some going hand Corwin would you go with the favorite, Pat? Here's why it also one at the war. Did it wanted comedy did defeated vice in comedy did? And I don't know I'm trying to give the editor some credit here, practical people who are not going to take the human wraps, even though it did win in best drama, and again that rationale of the favorite was just nominated, and so many categories and people really like it. Plus, it's when at the ace awards just I kind of think the box will be checked. So you know, the nominee in that category. There is your goes Mavra up Cereda's who is the editor of all of your goes. Lana Moses films and Han Corwin is a much more. No name. Here are some of the movie. Headquarters has edited vice the big short the tree of life. The new world the legend of Bagger, Vance snow falling on cedars, the horse whisper u-turn Nixon Natural Born Killers. Also worked on moneyball. He worked on JFK. He made his he made his bones with Oliver Stone. And I think that this is essentially like you did it Hank. You you cross the finish line. That's my God could be wrong. We'll see what happens. I think it's possible that the favorite winds is very possible. The bohemian rhapsody wins for the same reason to one that ace award, which is the the shoot was a mess, and they did the very best. They could with the footage that they had. And it was a herculean effort just to get this movie out into the world. And so they did it and it made nine hundred million dollars. Congratulations to the editors of that film. Let's go to send envy, as I said him delighted this'll be on television here the nominees Cold War. Lucas all the favourite Robbie Ryan never look away. Caleb. Chanel Rome Alphonso Koran and a star is born Matthew liberty. I picked off on so quarrel as did I so this is of course, cell phones. Korans first film not. With Chievo his his cinematographer of choice. I guess this is fine. If this one's what would you pick? Well, I love what Matthew liberty did in this movie. And it's at the risk of just making this about stars burn all the time, the the colors, and the and the definition and the light in the dark in a SARS born, I think is incredible. And I was an inspired choice by Bradley Cooper to bring him on board. But. I I would to Cold War too. I just think Pablo public housing Luca Zahle figured something out. This contrast, you black and white style that they've invented that is just so unique. And I love watching that movie and that movie is eight minutes, which is so nice. It's so wonderful. I I also went with Koran, but I did wonder whether Lucas Aw was a he's a dark horse here. He's definitely a dark horse, especially just because the company really does seem to Cold War as do we. So that's great. I mean, I think public house keys nomination indicates exactly what you're saying. There's definitely strong support for this movie. And also, it's an Amazon movie, and they have made a strong push for lucasville. There have been a number of events that Amazon had to to support Zala nomination. They really think he has a chance to win. I think Quarles gonna win but keep an eye out on Lucas, if you're if you're trying to put some cash down original score Black Panther Ludvig, your Anson black klansman, Terrence Blanchard, if Beale street could talk Nicklaus Patel. I love dogs. Alexandra display Mary Poppins returns, Mark shaming. I'm nNcholas brutal me two and number one because that's phenomenal. But also because you've talked about this a lot one good thing. Always happens. One good thing that we think is likely or we don't think they'll have good taste or there's always something really go that. I'm that is deserving. That's the right pick. And this is my one good thing happens. You know last year. I went twenty one of twenty four in my picks. And I felt really good about that. And I think I got a couple of things wrong because I in the craft categories. I went and ultimately best picture. I went with hopeful choices rather than sensible choices. And I'm not saying I would twenty four twenty four was in play necessarily. But I felt really good about most of the picks I made and there were just a handful particularly get out for best picture. I was like, man. It would just be really cool. If this happens love to write about it. I'd love to podcast about it. I'd love to be a part of this moment. This is a much smaller version of that. But if Bill streak could talk feels like the most listened to of all. Of these scores at feels like not just the one that we pay the most attention to all the film was happening and fills the most interwoven into Bill street talk. But it's also the one that I think is had a second life on Spotify. That I think people are spending time with it. Now, maybe I'm using poor evidence on Twitter to knowledge that nevertheless, if Black Panther won- and vigorous in one who is of course, also worked so closely with childish Gambino and just wanna Grammy couple of weeks ago. I think if he went to wouldn't shock me, I think, that's certainly plausible. I would also be happy of Terrence Blanchard. Black klansman turns bunch. It's been writing film scores for Spike Lee for many years on he falls into that same category. Someone like Ruth Carter who has been working in this industry for a long time and made a lot of great work. But nNcholas Patel would be nice. Let's go to original song. I know where we're both going with this one. But I do think there is some injury here. Yeah. Here are the nominees all the stars Black Panther. I'll fight our BG lull. The place where lost things go Mary Poppins returns, which will be performed by bed. Midler on this. Cast shallow a star is born. And when a cowboy trades his Spurs for wings, the ballot of BUSTER Scruggs. I would encourage people to go to the ring dot com. Read Adam it's piece about when a cowboy traits his Spurs for wings in our make the case series. Nevertheless, that's not winning in this category. Nor is all fight which will be so much Jennifer Hudson during the telecast, nor will the place where lost things go. I have a pretty good feeling of what you picked here. Would you pick them in? I went with shallow. Yes. I did. I so, but we're probably wrong. I feel like all the stars can win. Yes. It absolutely can win. And if it does win it will truly be the capper on the pain cave that is the twenty nineteen awards campaign for Bradley Cooper. Yeah. It was it was reported. This Bradley Cooper, lady Gaga will be singing shallow at the Oscars. But as Gog on about to say, Bradley Cooper's decision to sing this. As Bradley Cooper is when I knew in my heart that all the stars would win that is just kind of how karma's. Working this year. Now, I'd still did pick shallow think just mathematically. It's one everything it will probably win. If only because they need to get lady Gaga on the stage. Somehow, they're not that stupid though. Maybe they are. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, Kendrick Lamar Sousa are very popular beloved figures. Much awarded throughout their industry has been a trying time for stars born. I'm going with shallow. But it is with serious. Reservations, many really mad when we both get this wrong. It's going to be talking. Let's go to best documentary feature. High the nominees a free solo HALE county this morning, this evening, minding the gap of fathers and sons and your beloved RV g. I against okay. She's she's an important American. What do you got going for solo as well? Just seems like it's one everything it does seem like it's one everything feels inevitable. And when something like this feels inevitable. Be careful be careful watch out for a fathers and sons that's the kind of movie that like has never won anything throughout this race. And then all of a sudden documents documentary group is like it's actually this one that the documentary group is in that similar mold has the shorts group in that its mercurial and hard to define and it's a small much smaller group and the bulk of these, and so that's how it got into this category in the first place, and we'll see I mean, the case for free solo Rb G is very clear a lot of people have seen these movies. And a lot of people saw them in movie theaters, which is a rare that doesn't always mean, it's going to invest occupancy. In fact, the most popular film doesn't always win in this category. That's true. Two of them didn't even get nominated and two of them didn't even get nominated. So this'll be an interesting to see I do think it'll be free solo if. You want? Hear more free solo. Check out the episode of this show that I did with China's or Ellie and Jimmy Chen, the co directors foreign language film. You wanna read the nominees by two copper nam from Lebanon, Cold War, Paulin, never look away, Germany, Roma for Mexico and shoplifters Japan money in the Bank. It's gotta be Romo. Can I this is a rude note? But I made little notes to myself. I did also pick Roma and what I wrote this morning or four my coffee apparently was like they watched any other movies. Which was voters. I can't believe I'll root that once they do not burning. Yes. So I don't know I need to have total respect. I gotta say a recently saw birds of passage the Colombian shortlisted film, and that movies mazing, if you haven't seen birds of passage, I got recommended it just came out this weekend in very limited running in near Los Angeles. That's an incredible movie that movie not being not that I would necessarily want to take anything away from here. Maybe never look away. But yeah, there's a handful of films as always internationally that are not nominated that should be shoplifters being here is great. It's very uncommon for a film like that to get acknowledged by the academy, the the films from Asia are not often represented in the way that they should be historically. So it's nice that this is here if it's not Rome like I'll I'll I'll fall down past you Cold War have a sleeper maybe chance, maybe maybe. And if it does see how much crazy tweeting there is about Roma's not winning best picture and how we've got a Bonia rhapsody situation imminent wouldn't. Make it would make no sense, which means it would make a ton of Oscar sense for Cold War to end foreign language, and then wrote my twin best picture. Yes. When you look back at the Wikipedia page of the ninety first Oscars ten years from now. Of course, this happened. These people are fucking idiots. I just I don't know. Like if it's not Rome, I'll fold on a staircase. Like, I say also picked up. Watch shoplifters. It's transcended his very good animated feature to read them. So you can see your yes. Okay. I've already done it once it's fine. Incredible. Sue, I love dogs Murai. Ralph breaks the internet Spiderman into this by verse. Did you see rough brings the internet? Oh, I haven't seen. I actually have seen incredible steel and dogs. I've seen two out of five Ralph Rix internet's pretty good. I I don't know. I watched the trailer and all the Disney princesses or yelling at each other. And I like commentary, but it's fine. I saw the trailer. I got it will you work on the internet. And it's a pretty good commentary on what it's like to work on the internet. There are a lot of jokes about Terry. It's bad pretty much. Thank you. Well, it's not that you necessarily would learn something would feel something that you identify with much the same way that I felt something identified with with Spiderman it's the spider verse which is my pick. Okay. Maybe we'll watch this on an airplane. Sometime. Just watching it a theater like an adult. I was going to see movies with real people and children going Conti. That's that's all right, longstanding worse taken history this podcast. Should we go to the next category? What are you picking Spiderman? I'll be I end can. I just make up for you. When Spiderman wins, I will say, congratulations. John, and I'll be nice what care about that? It doesn't mean anything about looking for nice. I'm looking I'm proselytizing for reason. Okay. Best adapted screenplay. The nominees are the ballot of BUSTER Scruggs. Joel and Ethan Coen black klansman, Charlie walked David Rabinowitz. Kevin Willmott, and Spike Lee, can you ever? Forgive me. Nicole hall of Senator Jeff Whitty if you'll streak talk. Barry Jenkins stars born Eric Roth, Bradley Cooper, and will fetters. Who'd you choose. I'm going with black klansman here. I am as well. Because of the last nominee the last name your ad, which is Spike Lee. Yes. And I think that people would like to see Spike Lee won an Oscar. This is a tricky category. Okay. I in could go wrong. I also chose black klansman. I think that these nominees are interesting the ballot of BUSTER Scruggs really threw me for a loop when it was nominated. I don't think it's winning the Coens have a bunch of Oscars are good. But can you ever forgive me winning the WG as plus the power of stars born, and the fact that it also is not really gonna be acknowledged? Otherwise in any of these categories, especially shallow doesn't win. I don't know. Some doesn't feel right. I don't think Barry Jenkins is gonna win 'cause he's already won in this category for moonlight. Otherwise, this feels more unpredictable to me than I initially had thought it would be. So I also feel uneasy can we talk this out because from here on out. It's the big categories you've been talking about them. And you know, we're in the last week, and you and I last year did a thing where we where we decided that get out was gonna win best picture, and it was just because we were bored and feeling stress and feeling all the vibes. And I sat there this morning looking at screenplay both categories. Should I should I get frisky here? And I'm choosing not to get frisky. I'm choosing to hold the line as we learned our lesson last year. But I agree with you that something something could something could go got a changeling sensation here with this category. It might just be that the Astros been shit show all season. That might be that could be. Original screenplay. I don't have a tingling sensation about this one. Okay. Here the nominees the favorite Deborah Davis and Tony McNamara. First reformed, Paul Schrader green book, Nick Valla, Longa, Brian curry, and Peter Farrelly Roma Alfonso Cuaron and vice Adam McKay, I think we both have the same on here as well. I'm going with the favorite with Deborah Davis. And Tony Mack. I am as well. There's a lot of talk about the possibility of green book with. Yes, I have it highlighted here. Which means should I think about this? But I didn't think about it. I don't think it's going to win. Now. This is a real famous last words situation. Okay. So by the way, when it does when I will be mad at you for that. I will not okay. I don't believe in jinx's. And I don't believe in superstition. Okay. I think that this is a rare case where green book actually got out in the campaign. I think everything that happened with Nick villa longest tweets and the Peter fairly story. This is this is the case where people were like not on my watch. Now that doesn't mean Chromebook won't win best picture might but in this category in particular the thing that was largely attacked in. This film was the script and the quote, unquote reporting. Of the script the sort of truth in the script. So if it's a warded here, I'm gonna feel very bad. And I'm not going to be happy about that. And I don't think it's going to happen because I think good sense will prevail. Kobe wrong. I still think that screenplays a category that rewards movies that won't show up in the other big categories, and I had picked favorite several times in the technical categories. Because I do think people do some box to king. But this I'm going with the favorite because I do not sorry. Spoiler alert. But I don't think it's going to win another award. You don't think it'll went into the word out after this. Yeah. Yeah. I I agree with you. I agree with you. I noted last week that the winner of this category is almost always a good movie. Especially in the last years, get out Manchester by the spotlight Birdman, her jangle unchained like it's uncommon for something that we don't like for lack of a better phrase to win. We'll see what happens this next one is probably the to me the aside from best picture still the spiciest category figure out on that's actress in a supporting role. Here the nominees Amy Adams for vice marina data Vero for Roma Regina king. If Bill streak talk, Emma stone for the favorite and Rachel vice for the favorite shock me. Wow. Me would you pick? I'm not gonna while. You I told you that I'm being sensible. And I I'm sorry to disappoint everyone. I am going with Regina king, which is both sensible and wowing to me personally because I thought that she was absolutely fantastic in this movie. And is in many ways, the heart of it those scenes, Puerto Rico are just absolutely devastating and stay with you. So I'm going with redeeming king. I know that it could also be several other people in this category. So you like to discuss yours. Yeah. I also picked her genie king. I'm starting to come around on Rachel vice though, I didn't see it at all two months ago. Because to me, I thought this was stones movie. I always thought it was Emma stone's movie I loved with Jane who wrote on the site last week in the McKay series. I think it's I think this movie is meant to be funny. I and not dramatic. I and I think Rachel vice is giving the best dramatic performance in the. Movie Amazon's giving the best comedic performance in the movie and Coleman is the centrifugal force. Which is why she's nominated for best actress, she's both dramatic. But I got such a kick out of Emma stone in the movie that I couldn't let myself see Rachel vice as them a significant person in supporting actress over time, though, I don't know. I think the academy really likes her a lot. Yeah. I also love to record with that. I do kinda feel like we have the BAFTA shadow right now that makes her seem a little more possible than is. I wouldn't I would be pleased and not totally shocked if it were Rachel vice I still think that it's going to be Regina kings. Okay. All right. We'll have to wait and see actor in a supporting role. I can't believe this hasn't been more controversial this category. I can't believe it hasn't been more shocking. It's it's actually quite historically odd. What's happened here? So let's just let's just go through the nominees are mersal alley. Green book, Adam driver, black clansmen. Sam Elliott star is born Richard E grant can you ever forgive me and San Rockwell for. Vice what's your pack going with my Herschel to this feels like a foregone conclusion, which I find strange he is one everything he's won every single word. It's just a sweep. So it just seems stupid to not pick him people have pointed out the Mark Rylance of it all before. And it does seem possible. There are a lot of very likable actors in this category. It could be the shocker as you pointed out there is usually one surprise somewhere along the way they took like thirty years of movies for Dustin Hoffman to get an Oscar and mersal is going to get a second Oscar in three years, and that is by no means of judgment on marshal Ali who I am a huge fan of we talk about on the show many times during the season. I think he's doing great work on season three which is confounding to me, otherwise, but this is a lot. I mean, two out of three is a lot. And it's for a movie that is like fairly controversial, not a huge. Hit. I think he's very good in it. But I wouldn't say I saw someone recently say that this movie expands upon the kind of depth, and empathy that he saw as lawn in moonlight that that this is a bigger part. And so it's a more clear vacation of his power. I don't agree with that. I think that the Moulet performance is more. Interesting more textured with Barry Jenkins, those with actors like pretty incredible. And that's why Regina king hopefully will win as you noted in the last category. I just I find this weird that there's just no debate about this whatsoever. That is just marshal Ali for green book. Well, I think in lot of ways it's kind of misplaced guilt or trying to reckon with some of the issues around green book. It's kinda like, well, this is all a mass by well, they're the people who don't think it's mass. There are people who think it's very charming and the movie as we are evolving on this movie, and we have evolved throughout this. Thank you for going on this journey with us. But I think you, and I both agree that Vigo and Marshall have a real chemistry. There is something just charming about those two people acting together. No matter what it is that they are asked to act, and maybe people wanna reward that. And or people wanna reward the fact that none of this her Shas fault, and that he's an actor on we like him and this is vote of confidence from her Shaw. I can kinda see it going. Both ways of a lot of people. Not thinking too hard about it. But just kind of being like, you know, what I like him. And none of this is just this is one of those cases where like we spent all this time thinking about this got him award show. And then one of the five biggest awards happens. If people like he's nice. What are we awarding here, sir? Already has one. I just I again, this is not an indictment of Mercia Ali skills. It's also one of those things. Adam drivers, the classic person who have to wait until he's sixty eight to give an Oscar like he's already doing his best work like he's been doing his best work in movies for four or five years. Now, he's definitely one of the most interesting people in American movies like why he was never even considered in this race. This is not his best performance by a mile Ren. Yeah. We'll be Kylo Ren next year is going to say he could do a double nomination share. And we can talk about it. Then, you know, should we reward him for the indie drama or should we reward him for a blockbuster? Like, we'll talk about it for. Let's say Kadam going to do and Sam Elliott dies. Oscar lous. What will they do? How will they answer for their sins? They will do have really bad montage, and it will just be him for three seconds out of that driveway. Breaking the heart. Every man in America. What it'll be goddamn. This is just ridiculous. Like, it's the same thing. Sam rockwell. He just one last year. Nobody's gotta give another one. I'm so confused. By this. And I don't even know why ranting about it. I love mercy Holly actor in a leading role. Do you wanna read the nominees short Christian bale for vice Bradley Cooper for a star is born Willem Dafoe at attorneys gate Rami Malik bohemian rhapsody and Vigo Mortenson green book Brooks born. So we noted earlier who had a piece about the Oscars had one last week as well in which he spoke to several voters about their feelings about various races. And he said of all twenty voters that he spoke to every single one of them had Rami Malik for best actor rhapsody. Yeah. I do as well. I do as well. It is not a merit vote. Absolutely. It is a betting vote. And we're here you we're here, and this is just going to happen. And it's it's going to be the same story. It's funny. I also conversely would not say that this Vigo Mortenson best performance, but we're going to go like thirty or forty years and Vigo's not gonna have an Oscar not that he should be getting it for this. But it's gonna look weird when Romney Mollica for billion rhapsody. I think that this is going to historically seem like a very strange award for hats in light of Bradley. Cooper being overlooked, perhaps in light of Christian bale being understood to be the best living actor, which has come at the reputation that has right now. And then not getting his second. There's all kinds of different ways to analyze this. I Rami relic was good. I I've I was I've been a fan of more of a fan of that performance than you have in the last two months. You seem you seem dismayed. You're distraught. Right now. I'm mystified and annoyed and has said everything that I have to say about it Romney Malik seems fine. You know, I don't need to attack his performance anymore than I already have. And I don't mean to attack him as a person sometimes you like performance at sometimes you don't didn't really care for it. I thought it was a little extra. I also think that the academy loves extra performances and this stat that you cited has been haunting me all weekend. And we'll talk a little bit more about it. But twenty out of twenty people. Sampling done deal, but that's that's done deal for this category. But it makes me very nervous about large attitudes towards me map city because there's not even one person who is sitting there thinking, I don't know. Should I maybe I could consider another performance this category in particular has been the most predictable category. This decade. I think there has been so little intrigue in best actor for so long. Now here the most recent winters, Gary Oldman, who is just doing a victory lap for months and months for darkest hour, Casey Affleck, of course, for Manchester by the sea who even though he was sort of surrounded by some controversy. It was still evident that he was gonna win. No matter. What Leo of course, the revenue that was completely inevitable. Eddie red meat for the theory of everything. Matthew mcconaughey for Dallas buyers club Daniel Day-Lewis for Lincoln John Yarden for the artist? It's just been a fucking snooze. And that's actually really interesting why this category has calcified while others have become more. Unpredictable. What do you think that's about? I don't wanna stereotype or. Generous centralize too much bite. Best actor is a category of performances that we're kind of the most familiar with over history of movies because like we make a lot of movies starring guys, and they're just about guys, and they are. A large number of voters who also happen to be male and of a certain age relate to it a certain way, and there's just kind of a lockstep in what we think a best actor performance should be. And that's kind of seems just because of the makeup the academy, and our understanding of film history is going to be like the last one to be interrogated if that makes any sense, I think that's right. I think there's something at least natively true that what you're saying. Which is how we identify a great man's performance is clear, but I could've sworn that was going to be the Bradley Cooper thing. I mean that was what I wrote not Tober when that movie came out. I was like, wow, he just really geared himself up to hit all the troops even nominated before. He was beloved he took on everything here in the way to knowledge that is not like giving investor writer. It's by giving him best actor and saying like you really put yourself in a position succeed here. The one thing that's unusual about the wrong thing is I mean, this is more or less his first starring role in a movie is of course, been the start Mr. Rolla for years. He's on some films popular in last year. Here. But it's pretty rare that like a quote unquote on Jeju in the mail category ends of winning. So that is I guess I historical disturbance, but he's playing Friday mercury and just like the bio-pic and the famous person who means a lot to a lot of other people once in Churchill in in the list of name that you just read there are several already. It's just a ready made Oscar winner, you're at the most recent comparison, I guess it'd be Adrian Brodie for the pianist. And that's really the last time. I can think of somebody who's got this. Same feeling also film about music, and I just I don't know how much people are voting for Romney Malik or their voting for, Freddie. Mercury. Very well, put let's go to best actress in a leading role here the nominees elites operates, yo Roma. Glenn Close the wife of film. We've seen Olivia Colman the favorite lady Gaga stars born Melissa McCarthy, can you ever forgive me yet, our friend the wife class. Yes, I do as well. We have a lot of the same choices here. It's almost like we've been doing a podcast. No chance Gaga comes through here. No. I would say the spoiler would be Coleman and Gaga I think it's just no chance for Gaga with respect to who. I think was very good in this movie who apparently possibly going to break up in just got like Levin rose tattoo on her back. So there's a lot to work within the last couple of weeks, and I wish her well. I don't know that it's gonna end with a best actress Oscar next Sunday night. You don't think about any recent tattoos closest gutten? Oh, like keeping watch on her Instagram. Glenn Close is really campaigning in creative ways. So maybe it's not too late. I heard a rumor she got a it is is the wife tattoo and the style of two buck thug life right across her chest. Yeah. I think it's gonna close L this weekend by chance. You don't watch us. There was a pretty funny celebrity family feud sketch, pretty funny. I would say okay came in Kenan broke out her Glenn Close in the wife impression while banger in pretty pretty impressive. She really nailed this sort of like, quiet. Loud, quiet. Loud dynamic that goes into quote, unquote. Great acting. She will she really hit hard. I think it's going close. I'm sure she's got a jammed speech coming up. It'll be a good moment. I don't see an upset here you lease operates. The it would be really interesting. Very there's if there's a Roma sweep this is the kind of thing that does happen from time to time where there's an acting worthy. You don't see coming? I would I would put it at about five percent. But I something also a tingling sensation on that one. We've only got two awards left. We're getting near the end of this podcast and also near the end of this podcast. Best directing the nominees to Spike Lee for black klansman Pablo public hausky for Cold War, yoga's lent. The most for the favorite Alfonso Cuaron for Roma and Adam McKay for vice. It's got be coroner. Yeah. This is the lock done deal. Yeah. I don't even know what else to say about it. I mean, maybe we can just kind of segue directly in the best picture. I feel like there is something connected here, historically. It is connected. But maybe things are changing in the relationship between best director and best picture. So the best picture nominees. Of course are Black Panther black klansman bohemian rhapsody, the favorite green book, Roma. A star is born vice I hope that is the last time I ever have to say all of those movie titles in that succession. What have you chosen for best picture? Well, as I said, I'm being sensible. I'm being practical. I'm not getting spooks at the last minute. And so I'm going with Roma. But I think I'm wrong. But I think I'm wrong. I'm also going with Roma when you say, you think you're wrong. What do you mean? Well, my Spidey sense, which is reference I get even though I haven't seen the juicy Byner verse. Then you know, when to use that seem like eighteen other Spiderman, okay? My Spidey sense is that bohemian rhapsody is in the mix, and I have been kind of saying this to you offline for while, and it started when I was just putting together document trying to figure out like what are the chances for each of these movies and the preferential ballot? Because you know, that's the kind of thing I like to do with my time and just has a lot of cross skilled support. There have been a lot of surprise wins for it. People really seem to be able to separate the movie from the making of the movie people aren't as online as we are. And then in that Brooks Barnes pieces, you mentioned twenty out of twenty people saying they were voting for Romney Malik for best actor that has just been looping in my head all week. Just people are really open to this movie. People just really like it was fine. And haven't read any articles on the internet, and I'm just going to go with my God. And is that mean? They're putting it at number one. No. But to three I can just see it swooping in in the mid levels on a lot of ballots and with preferential balloting. That's all it takes on the ring dot com right now, we recorded a series of round table conversations some staffers about different Oscar narratives a lot of the things that we've been talking about on this show for the last couple months. Couple of things that are looking ahead to next year, maybe some potential snubs and some hindsight awards the one that you, and I spent the most time on was definitely about the idea of what the preferential balloting does. And what -tunities crates for every movie that is nominated like I said earlier in the show this in the history of the Oscars. I've never had less of a sense of what's going to happen here. Roma has felt inevitable for months and months and months, I would say since mid-november it has felt like Romans to lose even though we have so little evidence of Roma being an outhouse juggernaut in this race. So I voted for Roma in that with that in mind with that that sort of vision, but it feels very pre. Baked and you make a very compelling case for human rhapsody, and it's so funny. I mentioned this earlier I saw this conversation happening over the weekend about how this race is now Roma versus bohemian rhapsody versus Black Panther. And like how that how did we get here? I never would have guessed. I thought for months and months it was Roma versus a star is born. There was a part of me thought, oh, maybe Romo versus the favorite. You know, there's something going on here between the sort of high end that would sort of be the three billboards versus the shape of water kinda race that we're going to have. Now, we're to police where its lack panther versus human rhapsody for says Roma because the lack of consensus and the structure of the preferential. Balloting means it's up for grabs and first place votes are going to be really valuable in second place votes are gonna be really valuable more than any other year really wanna see the voting numbers. I really really really wanna see how close the stuff is. Because that would also help us understand whether they should go to go back to five nominees in this category or not because of black klansman gets eleven votes. And. Vice gets like six votes, which is I'm not saying that that's what's going to happen. Just it seems plausible given this race. And they're five films that are bunched and they've all got eighteen percent of the vote or something like that. That would indicate one that the the Oscar should make a change and to that to my existential cry into the dark earlier, nobody really knows what they're trying to do here. Nobody really knows what they're trying to reward. And maybe that fractured nature that parody for lack of a better word is good. But it feels unusual. Nobody knows what everyone is trying to reward. I think a lot of people know what they individually are trying to reward into that. And I think it's cool that even if latte clansmen gets eleven votes at their eleven people who are like, I really like this and spike deserves the best picture conversation. And that's what I'm voting for. I actually don't again, I don't mind the lack of consensus because I do think it makes for more interesting films in the mix. I think you're right that if it then goes the math goes weird. And as a result, there's no consensus, and so then we all had to gre- on humane rhapsody because it was the movie that most people had seen most people didn't mind that is a problem. And that means the system is broken because that's not advocating for a vision. Ian. And what is best that is that's actual consensus. I don't think consensus is good. This is my thing. I don't think incentives as good I think everyone has to have ideas and thoughts and passion in their heart. So you're thinking about the individual, and I'm thinking about the institution, and this is perhaps an apt metaphor for way that you, and I think about the world I am thinking about the historical context here. What this is trying to say about the water on. You're like here's how I feel. Here's how people feel and this is what they want. And it's okay for it to be that way. I don't I don't even disagree with you. It's just it's a completely different way of trying to analyze this stuff. I think also that if you get enough individuals together that they then can speak for an institution. I I don't really care about this institution. That's the thing. I I think it's interesting for history. And you know, we talk about data points and narrative arcs in how things are changing we all use those, and that's great. But like who gives a shit about the actual academy? I it's nice that it's. Nice the work that they do to presume preserved film history and teach people which means something to people who care about history, and they spend all pretty much all their money on that. You know, the thing about the academy is and we've been really desecrating the academy for months and particularly in this episode. The whole first twenty minutes episode is like these guys on what they're doing. The flip side of it is they really take care of movie history. In a lot of good ways, not necessarily with our words giving the way that they preserve film. If you go to the academy library if your geek like me, it's an amazing amazing specimen of history. It's just a cruel cool museum. It's a really cool way to do research. They do a lot of great work. It's just when they find themselves in these crisis points. They don't know how to act because they're not yet after ninety plus years familiar with how to be public with everything that they do. Well, they're also historians. They aren't, you know, forward thanking the thing is that we can't decide best picture at based on history like eight that it's important. It's good to know about it. It's good to know what makes films good and. It's good to know about the craft and where everything comes from influence and history are important. But that's you can't use that just as well. This is the most directly respectful of the movies. No, one cares. It's the ceremony itself in the awards giving itself should be about change should be about reflecting the moment. At least I think it should. And that is odds with much of its the academy's fundamental mission. So I understand that it gets a little tense for them. But it's fine. Let's talk about all the movies. We'll be talking about all the movies on Sunday night, February twenty fourth shortly. After the telecast, what time exactly is to be determined. But we're definitely going to be firing up all of our sincere feelings and historical analysis. Much like the academy has been doing the last couple of months, so we'll have a couple more episodes this week of this show, but tune in on Sunday nights check that out February twenty four th Amanda, thank you, Sean.

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