17 Burst results for "David Sloan Wilson"

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

05:13 min | 3 months ago

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

"The world you desired can be one. It is real. It is possible it is yours. Know i mean that's the kind of thing in kind of flowery language that someone like tony writing. Michael someone like. That's atlas shrugged rang. That's good writing credit. That with the with that was a good piece of proverbs it that she turned out there. So I think thing that tony robbins says or i'm like jordan peterson. When he says you know get your life in order and make your bed and clean your room and do this and and so on push back against chaos and you know. He has a huge following. Because a lot of people. I think need that they need some structure. They need somebody to tell a guide for the guide for living that And and which is a good thing so the world us the question is. Can we actually natch that that that inspirational motivational quality which is a good thing again. I want to wake up with purpose. i'm willing should. Can we actually do that. And then still have more authentic understanding of the world and i think that This is gonna sound a little self serving but who cares if you If you look at novels which are credited at being you know really good novel there at a different plateau in the sense that the characters are much more realistically drawn. Uk ns much more complicated. What takes place in the novel you can. You can sympathize with all the characters even the villains And yet at the same time you come away with something which gives you that ten to what to do and so on. It's immoral system but one which does a better job at apprehending reality. That's what we would credit a great novel within doe one of my favorite novels Sheva singer and who. I love you and so you know the same poll election not russian and there's a scene hours reminded of a lot of his books. Say a young man who grew up in a devout jewish community leaves goes to warsaw basically comes secular and lost in secular culture..

jordan peterson Michael tony robbins Sheva jewish tony one russian ten
"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

03:27 min | 3 months ago

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

"Forget evan and they're still love this story because of what it has to sign that conveys. I also mentioned walden to by the skinner and the same way because there. That's another very influential book. Because of the view that conveys but a story. I mean nobody would credit. At as compared to other novels i thought atlas shrugged is considerably. Better the fountainhead I barely get through it and the other ones I've found largely unreadable atlas. I thought was far superior. I think part of the appeal to young people because i read it in my early twentieth. The at pepperdine nineteen seventy five twenty. One i didn't wanna read it. I mean it's just it's massive book and a but but once i got started i kinda plowed through it and my girlfriend read it and you know everyone on campus was reading it and even then i thought you know this is interesting because i'm at a christian college pepperdine and i was a christian at the time and it was pretty conservative there. I mean gerald ford spoke there and You know our president was friends with with four and he was a deep republican and so on but they all seem to like ran. And i thought but you know she's an atheist y'all know she's an atheist i mean. She's pretty hardcore materialism. She's not buying any of. They didn't seem to care. It's like yeah we but she's got the politics we like..

gerald ford evan four republican One christian christian college pepperdine early twentieth pepperdine atheist nineteen five twenty seventy
"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

05:17 min | 3 months ago

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

"It's amazing for example back to calvin helvin regarded the catholic Is the anti christ. 'cause obviously the protestant reformation was in life and death battle with with the with the catholic today the catholic pope issues things like the. You know our common home and time. The catholic Speaks it's on under benefit of the whole world then how jesus appropriately interpreted is a model for everyone on earth. Dalai lama wrote his book beyond religion towards an ethic and the whole the whole world. He says again and again. And there's no there's seven hundred billion people in the world billion of them are religious at all in any and all we have to reach an addition everyone else so the idea that the world is our group and then we have to a and that has to be. The starting point is is really becoming ninety. Many people are converging upon. Yeah well but again. To put boots on the ground literally in this case. When george w bush said his much of his foreign policy was influenced by natan sharansky book the case for democracy by read that book. I thought yeah. This is a great book. He says you know this idea that there are some people in the world that are just not ready for democracy is kind of a racist bigoted thing to say. It's kind of condescending. Oh democracy is for as highly intelligent educated people in. You're just tribal thugs. They're not ready in sharansky argues against that argument which i thought he he made a pretty good case but then of course you know we. We send troops into iraq in. Okay we're gonna make you a democracy and we can see how well that went So i i. It'd be curious to know your thoughts about like exactly the idea of spreading democracy because it's a better system from the bottom up smaller groups and he scaled up democracies of the best way to do that but clearly some people. Just don't want that and so do we. Just leave them alone. And what if there's groups in there that you know have their their rights violated and they want our help in other words. I'm kind of asking a foreign policy question. Evaluate handle something like that and your model is. You're such complex issues that i don't wanna sound fast. I'll as if there's an easy answer to them. But i do think that there's a lot of conceptual can be made would draw upon people such as peter searching and johannes johannes because when you.

natan sharansky iraq peter searching johannes johannes sharansky ninety earth Dalai lama seven hundred billion people george calvin jesus billion christ today bush protestant catholic helvin
"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

03:41 min | 3 months ago

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

"Autonomy group needs elbowroom authority to govern. Its own affairs. There's a libertarian and austrian as australia's a hero libertarians. Not up there. With twitter kayak youngest australian and then then eight policy governance which is basically relations among groups. That embody the same principle. So now there's your there's your blueprint and shower and this is what i would tell him when he calls me up. Of course you have a red phone in your office. They're right here for me. We would say and this is what we've already done. There's good research on this now. We're improving daylight. You give me a group. I can coach that group to function better using those principles and there's also an adaptability flexibility component that is in addition. So bottom line. I think this all this hype theory out this fossilising and and And theorising actually can boil down to a very practical toolkit net can be used on the ground starting at the scale of small groups going up from there and bali central governance fashion. Yeah yeah i like that. I wrote about that in in my latest book. Giving the devils do have a chapter called governing. Mars and i got to speculating about what kind of social structure political economic structure and so on. Should we have for the first colony of mars martian. So maybe if it's a dozen people it's not a big problem but once you scale up to one hundred and then thousand and ten thousand and so on anyway in the middle. I've read a dozen. Yeah yeah must. Nicolas his book blueprint. Did you read nicholas kristof. Yeah so he's got that great chapter on Well he's accessing a database. Somebody else collected of shipwreck survivors and which ones survived. Were most successful. Which weren't in the ones that are most successful at many of the characteristics that you just ticked off particularly more of a horizontal rather than a vertical a conflict resolution and overall structure where everyone feels like they're participating which is kind of like a democracy. I suppose Which is why probably democracies have spread moreover the last two centuries than other than autocracies and and authoritarian governments and theocracies. And all that. I mean you can count. The number of left one is well. The verdict is still out on. That are colin and don. What as your what's what the future will on the spread of democracies. I think. I know because the last four years hasn't looked. Maybe maybe i don't know much will depend on what happens..

Nicolas nicholas kristof colin twitter Mars one hundred mars martian dozen people thousand and ten thousand austrian australia first colony bali a dozen last two centuries last four years don australian eight policy one
"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

04:13 min | 3 months ago

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

"Right. Sour. i'm trying to think of how to answer this It takes place in the place in the atlas. Atlas hug the main character himself basically puts restraints on himself. He says You know my dad's appoint a one point one percenter but i'm going to be a ten percent are as far as my personal income is concerned. I can't live on live the happy on one hundred thirty thousand dollars a year. I need my head examined. Not more money and what i'll do with aggressive. That money is is a work. Basically establish a at a worldwide scale. What comes naturally at a at a small scale and so the idea of this law group appropriately structured as a kind of utopian has closed through utopia as we'll get a member of a smaller a unified purpose in which we're known by our actions controlling each other and and we get meaningful. Things don't demonstrate demonstrated again and again in real life that's why our fathers including my own reported his world war two experience says they best time of his life rate because of that intense com battery. That's what emergency situation room about. Communes and groups of all kinds sports teams appropriately structured as to when people say that they're in the middle of family now on and so forth then in the book. there's a number of communities just all utopic charms. There's the school that he attends which has clogs through the school. The gironde kit attending isn't that interesting. There's the church community the the christian church community. There's a redneck community logical station. In each case because these are law groups proper restructured. There's no safra very little suffering people. Don't impose supper on each other. They have each other's backs in the great challenge is to is to scale that up. That's the challenge and of course the challenge in real life what we could ask. Here's another point. I think. Michael important juror stress tennessee theme in the to in real life. Is that the difference between the intentions of people and the consequences of their actions. I mean bad. Things are not necessarily dump your bad intentions. There's a place in the book. Where young john gall three says. Here's what i've learned in my short life. Evil in the world is mostly not caused by evil people. Evil in the world has done by good people under the spell of a bad person. The dot happens. You're you're a person who just happens to on a big boat. I shouldn't have it. But he's not a bad person not at all a fine person but is operating in a system where everyone behaves like that. Then there's gonna be consequences not that he intended a wanted or anything else but unless you construct the system to avoid the accumulation of wealth accumulation of wealth will happen. They're just doing what people do is the system. That's and the stories that support that system. And then there's the question of what you do about it and then there. I think what i'd want to do is of course in the book Thought our let's done about it but in real life. I'd point to the work of robert prayer and his book the darwin economy which in the first place he says. Here's something that economists don't get. Life is graded on a curve. Economists wanna think that we're just trying to maximize our utilities some absolute sense. We just want that boat this because we want that that happens the individual preference in real life it's all about banking it's all about who.

ten percent john gall three world war two each case one point Michael important Atlas one hundred thirty thousand do one christian robert first place darwin economy atlas utopia tennessee
"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

06:06 min | 3 months ago

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

"Is just right. We need that We need that structure but the whole idea that like you know this needs to be done. This mutual aid stuff needs to be voluntary camp. They organized by government. That's just not true. There's no basis for it. And i think as part of the water me is the idea that you know. Government does not only the private expansion. That's hogwash and we have the really good economists like marianna mas ocado who have established beyond a reasonable doubt that the great innovations responsible for jack internet and all that stuff in such state investment. I mean in such amazing date invented. Do you really think that that wireless social security necessary. Because people do not on their own plan for their retirement this goes on and on and on and if you look at the thus functioning nations on earth those of the nordic nations you what you find is is something that is a scaled up version of of the small groups that we thought that we discussed earlier. You have every major sector of society strong strong labor various trying capital easier capitalistic. Society is magnum day and a strong state and those sectors work collaboratively for the good of the nation. That's what works. And so there's your baby. And beth water and i think that really should not be hard for people no matter what they identify with by way of their political orientation to really meet that middle ground. I god i think that's one of the things that now. It's one of the things that Evolutionary theory does. I think it outlines a position which does not fall under any car political camp and so therefore it can be left to all camps. Yeah yeah let's. Let's give a few examples interstate. Road system for example would not have a spontaneously arose from market forces. That took the government operation same thing with the internet. Same thing with say the space program at least initially most of the things that even conservatives set yeah we need interstate road system. Of course we need postal system and whatnot. Although some i suppose would want to get rid of the postnatal should have. We should have high speed internet everywhere. Yeah there's a wonderful wonderful article by a prank is one of the authors. I thank but what it stores is that if you look at innovation moore ship in the nineteenth and early twentieth century at correlated. Highly with the existence of a post office off as the postal system was put in place by the. Us government is going to bubble up ready market right so so this idea that the kind of blind faith in the market which of course ran is famous for its part of her while lost the is that the market of so good that south interest is you need that someone in a nutshell. The idea is not. I mean it's immoral system is a highly moral system but But as based on assumptions about the power of the market in order to adjust prices. And all that that. Just ain't slow so we definitely have to or beyond that. let me give you an example of capitalism. And then you tell me what's wrong with this so my one of my best friends. Michael coles was the founder of the great american.

Michael coles marianna mas ocado nineteenth and early twentieth earth one of the authors american one one of the things beth water one of things nordic
"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

03:45 min | 3 months ago

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

"These are the things we have to do. And if we don't there will be consequences and another well and cherry dimension what that which we want to do based on sympathy and apathy in at and so. I'm not so much because that's exactly what you need and expect from an evolutionary perspective that without the coercive dimension. It's not safe to the nfl. Show host or to be pro social in any way and so the coercive demand morality provides a socially constructed environment. We talk about nick construction all the time. It provides a safe environment for people to be pro social if it's strong System than you can extend yourself and you will not obey. And we're very sensitive to that so i'm always looking around us testing out our social environment. If it makes us feel like any sensible turtle snail shell if not become out of our shell and so what that means is that you're really provides a blueprint for any size of group. That's basically what you must do. You must provide a social structure. Which in practical terms functions as that coercive element of moral system and the author elinor ostrom workers or design principle. Talk about hour or not as you sleep. It got some big big dog. There teco might might. My dog is just He's he's going crazy. I think everybody's comfortable now with the home studios. Because that's the world we live in was going to say that sounds like arguments that conservatives make that is in the social contract we want to structure a society in which individuals are encouraged to do the thing and be pro social and generous in cooperative. So you need a strong military to protect citizens from external threats. You need a strong to protect citizens from internal threats criminals or whatever you want. Charity be charity and charitable giving to come from within so this needs to be encouraged through religion and moral systems. And and this why they tend to be against the government doing that for individuals that charity. Because then you take the moral element out of it if if you take my money to taxes and redistributed to others as as the nobles that may sound. it's not me doing anything moral. I'm just you know cutting contributing my taxes. And i don't like it anymore than anybody else does. And so in a way it almost sounds like a conservative kind of argument that the that was social structures and systems are voluntary and away rather than from the top down. Well i got. I think there's a baby in a bath water in what you said we really have to. In all of these positions we have to separate the baby the bathwater. There's a wonderful quote permanent evolution named cain to the effect of regret controversy. To think of somebody's just plain wrong is is just hopelessly simplistic. The exact quote is integrate controversy. Only the simplest mind can believe that one side is falling. So that's great bar. That's a great question for our our our times. And so yeah the first part of what you said.

first part one side cain
"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

05:44 min | 3 months ago

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

"Zone. So that that that. That's kinda my founding statement. But i suspect that you're founding position is different from that. What's wrong with that. Let me begin by agreeing with it. And then to develop it in a way which i hope you can agree with the also. We'll see how much progress we can We could make the part. I want to agree with is Pathology associated with with groups that have such coercive power over Members could actually make a decision such as You kill someone heard someone for the go to the group that kind of a cemetery with a group having power or the individual is indeed something that nobody should not a should want now. What actually takes place in small human grip thanks. Devolution is that they are strongly structured against that. I mean people statement. You could make human nature evolutionary perspective as individuals do not like to be pushed around when they're a small group. They hate being bullied. And when those groups are appropriately structure they actually have the ability to suppress bullying nevertheless. The suppression of bullying is critical. Unless a human group is capable of suppressing descriptive self-serving behaviors bullying another regarding other self-serving behaviors of all sorts. That group is going to be horrible at a different way. And so what's required. And what actually were. The conditions of human evolution at a small scale is that individuals insisted on itani. Here's your individual freedom. but they also collective agreements. They decided to do things together and they subordinated themselves to that group. 'cause and so if it's just purely individual than the nobody wants to live in that kind of society either but we were the kind of society that we want to live in which is easy to understand. At the scale of small grier says do the part of a group working together coordinating their actions. Do something that's meaningful to.

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

04:35 min | 3 months ago

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

"It's a literary truth or something like that. There's truth in the bible in mythic says but of course someone like dawkins would say. Yeah but but did he really die and come back from the dead and was really born of a virgin. And and i remember being at conference with the dot with richard and ken miller. Who's a catholic as you know. And i can't hardcore defender of evolutionary theory. He's one of the prime two bunkers of design creation. But dawkins wanted to know. Okay ken if we found a piece of the true cross you know. 'cause people claim that they find these ones around and there was a little bit of flash on there and we could tease out the dna. From jesus would it be a full complement of dna. Like human saverin. Would would it be a half up. Lloyd or whatever that would be can was like richard. You don't understand. I'm not making any period claims here. This is my faith tradition. This is what i believe. I'm not saying it's literally true. You know like it's sort of dislike ended the conversation really because we're talking about two different kinds of truths star. I think that this is fun. And and And as.

ken miller richard dawkins jesus bible ken Lloyd two different kinds one prime two bunkers
"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

05:56 min | 3 months ago

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

"And creating. That's dried. i hope it's a half as much on drew heated. it was. Yeah and i read the whole thing. It was a little difficult unappeased as opposed to a book. i like. i'm old school. I like physical books. Actually read the physical newspaper every copy after the well. Here's no let me just read something you wrote about You make a distinction between what we might call an empirical truth versus vertical vertical perception versus a stylized universe And you ask. Why do most of this regard ourselves as above average. Why do we demonize enemies. Why do we invent invisible gods inglorious past for our ancestors than any story and can easily debunk. Because these adaptive fictions help us to survive and reproduce in the real world better than more accurate perceptions of reality. They're better than real. And of course. That's what rand is trying to do. With or novels is like portray the world as she thinks it should be not just as it is a and and you're taking that a step further away saying well. We can't really know what it is politically because our senses are distorting it and so forth so pick up on that well in the first place. We can nora although we're difficulty and that's what science and scholarship earl about snow. I'm actually you might call and everyday realist everyday life. We we operate under the assumption that there's an external world out there that apart from our existence and it can be apprehended. That's what it means to tell the truth versus to lie and we're awash in fake news. You know i mean so am stiensen responsible journalism in a judicial procedure. There were saying to. You know who. I swear to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth and we know that we know what that means of course has tremendously complicated for just the reasons that passage states because our minds evolved not exactly to perceive the world away is but to survive and reproduce in that world and so the difference between our meaning systems. And what's out. There is a very complex relationship. We have to struggle in order at apprehend. What's out there hearing through this tissue of lies as it's put in the novel. How can we tell him without. Aaron guild tissue of lies tissue the objectivism christianity view. Up to the present moment is one which avails itself of adaptive distortions of of reality..

Aaron stiensen christianity every copy first place nora
"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

02:57 min | 3 months ago

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

"Two and a half ventilated star bucks for infinite knowledge accessible on your phone. It's a great deal and this is the sole sponsor of the podcast other than the Of the skeptics society. That were under. I'm not going to bring on here. you know my favorite pillow advertisers and guns and gold and whatever else supports gas. It's it's really the great courses And i have the mind. Because i use them all the time. I listened to these lectures and not content. Consumption is something we're all doing in the pandemic and This is really the best source. I found so. Give it a shot. Go to great courses plus dot com slash shurmur. that's great courses plus dot com last. Shurmur you get the thirty dollars off and the free trial ten bucks a month for the year great deal. Thanks for listening my guest. Today is dr david. sloan wilson. Who many of you will know. He is president of the evolution institute and suny distinguished professor of biology and anthropology at binghamton university. He applies evolutionary theory to all aspects of humanity. In addition to the biological world and his books include darwin's cathedral evolution for everyone the neighborhood project and does altruism exist. His new book is atlas hugged. It's a novel based on you-know-what atlas shrugged by iran. And he's taking on ayn rand's philosophy of objectivism but more generally her philosophy of individualism and the greed is good Angle of that and so we get into all that. I know a lot about ayn rand and road. And i've been critical of her philosophy so we discussed that but also the general larger picture issues of You know how that kind of philosophy leads to actual policy tax policy foreign policy and so forth and of course he's proposing a new system which you'll hear about and you can read about it His evolution institute and in his novel So i push him on. What exactly would this look like in terms of taxes and foreign policy or whatever the government is structured so we get into the details of that as well talking about human nature. to what extent are we selfish. We are but we also have other aspects of our of our nature that are good. So what kind of social norms and institutions political and economic systems. Do we have that. Accentuate the one in attenuate. The other And so it's a pretty deep. Long conversation We we get into it Into the weeds for a lot of these issues. I think one of the more interesting conversations of add on this podcast with that. I give you david. Wilson medicine.

thirty dollars Wilson Today ayn rand binghamton university david Two and a half sloan wilson david. darwin dot com ten bucks a month one
"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

03:09 min | 2 years ago

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

"That was in there to come out. If you have somebody. Got your back. So when I was donating religion war Darwin's cathedral amid a specialist w Calvinism and how these elements of religion work. But I'm discovered was where was the turn the other cheek forgive us our trespassers as we forgive those who trespass against us. The real message of that was leave the social control to us. Please. You know, your petty grievances and stuff like that? No, you should be you should be together. But the the reason you can be forgetting as they charge of going to be much better social control, then and you are, and that's why we get these differences. You're familiar with Michael about on dick great work on on cultures of honor. And so on generic cultural societies, basically the social control becomes a state fair. But in hurting societies and so on and no social control is something you have to do. Yourself in its outpoint you have to defend your own honor. And so the role of traditional masculinity. I think is something in the first place. We should have a great open discussion about it. It should be pre-owned query, and and so on attending to two differences. And but in the second place, we're capable changing. And I think that. Even when it's even when it's a difficult time and circumstances can cause for change. Maybe we need to have new ideas about masculinity. So, you know, stay at home dads, not such a bad. Thing. And so why why am I not a man by electric due to to do that? And so I love I have a little two and a half year old now. And I love the spending time at home with him. It's great. I'd rather do that than be a masculine, hyper masculine CEO? I mean, those guys got to work eighty hours a week. They have no life outside of this. You know, I don't know why that's got elevated to be in a great thing. I don't wanna make that. It'd be nice to have the money without having to do eighty hours a week. But I'd rather sacrifice that so, but I think when to kind of wrap it up, I think one element of triggering social changes, the dispersal of good ideas. Which is what you and I as authors try to do I do hope your book does. Well, in that sense. If nothing else not just descriptive. But but maybe prescriptive or actively prescribing to change things this view of life, completing the Darwinian revolution. Congratulations. David. I hope that book does. Well. For you. And whatever you've got next plan. One of the things I liked about the book is that it describes other things you actually, did you're not just an egghead sitting in your office coming up with ideas. You actually go out and test them in the real world, which we need more of. So maybe someone in the State Department when they read the book, they'll hire you to ten minute advise them on at a deal with immigration or North Korea. Or whatever is we need more scientific perspectives on those things unless actually starting to happen. I mean..

Michael State Department North Korea CEO David eighty hours ten minute
"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

02:43 min | 2 years ago

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

"And so that is imprinted in some sense. It might be culturally imprinted, it might be genetically imprinted in some but not others. It might be imprinted by virtue of your personal upbringing. But either way you cut it raising hell or something that we actually don't want to help them. And the fact that that's, you know, something about your mail notes while I'm sorry. You still shouldn't do it. Should they lobster help you or two? And if you just can't help yourself, then we're gonna lock you up. And that's what self domestication is. We have this whole Richard randoms newest book is about a we just executed the people that couldn't help themselves. That's how that's why we're as cooperative as we are. Right. I read that Christopher bums book a few years ago, where he talks about how hunter gathers deal with psychopaths bullies free riders or whatever, you know. I'm gonna miss further developing bones faces. Yeah. Well, this description of when they would take somebody out, the hind the shed so to speak in an awesome. This is not easy to do when you don't have guns. Right. So they would have to cooperatively like, okay. Let's get six of us in. We'll gang up on this guy, and you shoot him you hit him and so on and if it's if he's a big bully that's actually hard to kill somebody like that. And but in a way, so there's toxic masculinity. The kind you just described it we want to get rid of. But on the other hand, there's always gonna be these one two three percent, psychopaths bullies. We're never going to get rid of all of them. So it's good to have strong men. This is the counter the kind of conservative Jordan Peterson counter to the good kind of masculinity where you do want strong men to fight back against the bullies and stand up and protect our group or protect our women or whatever it, you know, you don't want to get rid of that. Right. Definitely punishment has native. That's the I graduated sanctions basically after after police, grad behavior, absolutely essential. Whether there has to be big strong man, or whether it has to be whether it can be something else than well. As we've seen in the Mike me to move it. There's plenty of women that are very strong and willing to stand up. But typically if they have the backing of other women or society, or now, really what what we're seeing. I think is society coming around to say, yes, stand up and organiz fightback, and let's call out these, you know, the the CEO's in the Hollywood directors admit getting away with this in a way, there's there's some power in the numbers of people behind you that gives you the strength to go ahead and stand up, but they had the strength..

hunter Christopher Jordan Peterson Mike CEO Richard Hollywood one two three percent
"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

04:53 min | 2 years ago

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

"In selfish us winning and everyone being hundred percent selfish. Altruism winning and everyone being hundred percent altruism or some Nixon between the equilibrium could be some percentage of selfish altruistic individuals. And in the case of psychopathy. And supplies will scenario that when psychopaths her at a very low frequency, then basically everyone's dropped their defenses. And so that they can do well, but after they get above a critical frequency than people become more defensive, and then they get hell down to that low level. So this is a certain kind of frequency dependent selection, which is maintaining a mix in the population. But let me give you a real world example because you know, we're all Seem. this. So theoretical. There's plenty of studies. Am I? Let me give you to reply may just to show you that? This is not just a theoretical one is my former are grad student, Omar elder Carr worked on water strider of the those of the insects of skate on the surface of water whether scavenge for for. Upright insects that fall. And on the surface of the water turns out the males differ greatly in their aggressiveness towards females. So actually, some males are psychopaths. Just creditor their hunt for females and then they jumped a ripe them other. Males are more docile. They're gentlemen, who wait to be asked to do their Manley duty on this is a very stable individual difference and so- Omar created cools water, six males and six females in each pool. And he altered the frequency of males from one hundred percent psychopaths do one hundred percent docile and various mixes in between. So what are they find? He found with an every pool containing both tards the psychopaths did better than the docile males. No surprise that boys. Get the girl. In every polo is not a symbol pool in which docile males had an advantage over. So psychopathy beads disability within Gerg's on the other hand in the groups with the psychopaths the female for so terrorized that they didn't get a chance to eat And there. they're gonna lay many ads, and so the so the groups with a docile mills head to the pre times more eggs line, then in the groups would they psychopathic males. So now altruistic groups be selfish groups, so now an interesting question is what generates variation among groups, you have to have variation among groups he created that variation in that experiment, but what creates variation in nature. And so it did a second experiment in which interconnected. The groups are now all the insects were capable to come and go in those groups, however, they wanted and so what happens is is females enter a pool, whether it's a psychopath, guess what she leaves as soon as you possibly can now the psychopathic is follow everyone could move. But when the whole thing settled down in a quarter birds there is an. Impressive degree of clustering of the females around the dust oil males. And so it's movement conditional movement. That's generating the variation. Among group says not Kim selection. The is individuals are not genealogical related to each other. It's a form of partner choice, basically. So there is a real world example of on it results in a mix, basically. Mix it individuals, not just one or the other. I could give other examples, but that was probably good enough to show you that this actually does raise the Knicks will let supply to humans and and see if you'd care to weighed in on the gender differences debate and masculinity versus toxic masculinity. And to what extent men should be. You know, men's men know Jordan Peterson like, you know, you know, get get your life in order and grow a spine and stand up for yourself and versus what we clearly recognized through the metoo movement. There are toxic males. They're males at are just bad ass, really asshole, jerks, psychopaths, or whatever. Starts. Female serve talk about toxic people. Yes. That's right. There are toxic people. Well, it's interesting. The broader perspective here just to kind of pull back since we we've been going over an hour and a half year on your on your book.

Omar elder Carr Jordan Peterson Nixon Knicks Gerg Manley Kim selection partner one hundred percent hundred percent
"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

02:11 min | 2 years ago

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

"Take the trade that it is identified as cooperative or altruistic pro-social identify the group in which social interactions occur. Compare the fitness with a more selfish alternative trade within that group. And you will discover what Darwin discovered is that they go operative trade is not most fit within that group. Therefore stumping must be Adam. And that's something is invariably groups doing better than other groups and some multi group bucket called vehicles colored units, call it whatever you like call at the end of empress in game, theory, whatever it is that dynamic is trooper all theories of social Aleutian. Why do we need another group just me acting within my group I wanna be selfish? But the group itself has norms that that that attenuate by selfishness. Encourage me to be more cooperative. And so I do it's still just me individual selfish moral agent acting to my best benefit by being nice and cooperative. Just within the group. Whether there's other groups are not. The own agrees. Your dad is that there were other people in the group that were prepared to punish you. Yeah. That's still individual natural selection. Is it not not? So let's just well on this. Because I think it's a great example. So when we talk about this. We're actually talking about the ablation of true traits. Now, what are you going to be an altruistic or not on the second one? Is you're going to punish cheaters are not. Okay. And so if there's enough punishers in the group than the altruistic who better than the cheaters because the cheaters replenish, but how about the pleasures compared to the non punishers if there a non punisher in the group earthier punisher, and you're going to some time effort expands in order to keep the peace and the non punisher in the same group is going to benefit from that. So the non punisher is more fit than the punisher. This is called a second. Order public good. There's many nanny models..

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

02:08 min | 2 years ago

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

"And it was a high def camera that somebody had posted and yesterday he turned himself in they didn't arrest him. He just turned himself because he realized I can't go anywhere. Everybody in the world is now seeing this video and so. The internet the internet gives us the best in the worst. And this is a great example of a brave new world. Yeah. Of communication now. A notes I made I was with Lind's work because I I hang around with classical liberals and libertarians the reason magazine guys in Cato Institute, and so on so they love her work because of this idea of Friedrich Hayek spontaneous bottom up self organization in that. Of course, their argument is you don't need top down government regulation and controls because people will spontaneously sort themselves into order and solve these a tragedy. The comments type problems naturally, and they use examples like ranchers in California in minors in the west before the long arm of the law got out there, ranchers and miners established their own sets of rules and regulations in punishments in so on for violations. Pete Leeson wrote that book of the invisible hook about pirates. Pirates who, you know, spontaneously constructed their own constitutions laggards in people that that don't take the risks. Do not get the benefits. And so on. The problem that the problem just the examples you give are all positive which is great because it's an uplifting book, but I just had dialogue with Rachel kleinfeld for her new book called a savage order, a savage order, and this is about what happens when states fail when the central government collapses like in the Republic of Georgia Columbia now in Venezuela. There. There is indeed spontaneous order that erupted from below. They're called mafioso gangs, and they have their rules and regulations. All right. And if you don't obey them, you know, you're getting cement shoes, and and you know, rates of violence and corruption bribery, go up. These are not such good examples of spontaneous order..

Pete Leeson Friedrich Hayek Rachel kleinfeld Cato Institute bribery Lind Venezuela California Georgia Columbia
"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

Science Salon

02:48 min | 2 years ago

"david sloan wilson" Discussed on Science Salon

"And of course, we always encourage you to descend us a check or call the office or any of the different avenues that are available there. And I really appreciate your support. We are a primarily membership supported organization and the podcast is our latest project to try to reach as many people as we can my guest this week. As a longtime friend in in colleague, David Sloan Wilson, his book is called this view of life. Completing the Darwinian revolution. David is the distinguished professor of biology and anthropology at Binghamton university. His books include evolution for everyone. The neighborhood project. Does altruism exist and Darwin's cathedral? He is the president of the evolution institute in editor in chief of its online magazine this view of life. I've known David for a long time. I always like his work because he looks for practical applications of science in general and blueberry theory in particular, which he does definitely in this book are one beef of of of contention here that I push back on a little bit is is idea of group, selection, Adakinson pinker, and others are pretty much reject group selection as a factor in of luminary history. Dave. David and the other Wilson e o Wilson think that group selection is real. So we do get into that a little bit about three quarters of the way through the podcast. It's not that important personally. I don't have a big dog in that fight with the group selection is real or not what do we mean? By groups seems to be something of some confusion on how the language is used in this debate. Nevertheless, the idea that humans are a social primate species and group membership obviously plays a huge role in in our blueberry pass we get into that. But more much more importantly, his work, and in terms of applying the ideas behind blueberry theory to solving social problems, I think is really important, and that's what we mainly focus on with his latest book. So with that please have listened to David Sloan Wilson. This is your host Michael Sherman. And you're listening to science a series of conversations with leading scientists scholars and thinkers about the most important issues of our time. David Sloan Wilson nice to see thanks for coming on to show. Your Michael Shurmur back on radio..

David Sloan Wilson president Michael Sherman Michael Shurmur Binghamton university Adakinson pinker distinguished professor evolution institute Dave editor in chief three quarters