5 Episode results for "David Miot"
Order of the Nine Angles Pt. 2
"Due to the graphic nature of the secret societies actions. Listener discretion is advised. This episode contains descriptions of Murder Abuse, racist ideology, and sexual assault that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen something to note all of the groups covered on this show operate in secret the details included in this episode or based on extensive research, but ultimately can never be one hundred percent verified except by society members themselves. At Nine Thirty PM in May Twenty Twenty, the barracks were quiet most of the other US army grunts route enjoying a pleasant evening and Vicenza Italy but twenty two year old private Ethan Meltzer sat in his bunk, his laptop open before him. He pulled a documents stored in a hidden folder on his I cloud titled Harvest of the soldiers just having it on his computer could land him in prison after all it was a terrorist handbook for attacking American Army units distributed by Isis meltzer clicked on another file. This one had a series of satellite graph showing a military base in Turkey, MELTZER's units next assignment certain the documents were in order meltzer logged into an encrypted chat APP that he used to communicate with other members of the order of nine angles. As planned his own contact was waiting meltzer eagerly typed I, have the documents and I now know the date when my unit is transferring to Turkey. His contact replied, that's good. When it all goes down, this will be a full blown Heidi attack with mass casualties. You know there won't be any guarantee for your own safety. MELTZER. Responded then I would have died successfully causing another ten year war in the middle. East. Will definitely leave a mark on the world. Hi I'm Vanessa Richardson, on Greg Poulsen and this is secret societies spotify original from podcast. Every Thursday we examined history's most exclusive organizations from around the world and try to shine a light on these mysterious groups from the aluminum body to the order of nine angles we'll explore. Impact each secret society actually had on the world around them. This is our second episode on the order of nine angles a prominence satanist group based in the United Kingdom. Last week, we discussed how neo Nazi David Miot used his writings to shape the on a into a ritualistic murderous cult. This week will look at how my local organization evolved into a worldwide network with affiliate cells across Europe and north. America will also explore how members acted out the Owen as violent teachings in real life. We'll have all that and more coming up. Stay with us. This episode is brought to you by bio life plasma services. Your plasma is desperately needed to help treat those who are most risk right now, and when you donate plasma at via life, you can earn up to six hundred dollars in your first month become a donor at bio life visit via life plasma dot com to schedule an appointment. This episode is brought to you by bull and branch incredibly soft sheets crafted with organic cotton. So comfortable, even three former US presidents have slept on them only at B. O., l., l., andbranch, dot com. This episode is brought to you by loan depot today with interest rates remaining near historic lows. There's never been a better time to talk with loan depot about purchasing a home or refinancing your current mortgage rates terms and availability of programs are subject to change without notice Loan Depot Dot COM LLC NMLS I one, seven, four, four, five, seven in MLS consumer access dot Org Loan Depot Dot COM LLC two, six, six, four, two, town centre drive Foothill Ranch California nine, two, six, one, zero, equal housing opportunity lender. The. Order of nine angles emerged in the early nineteen seventies in England it quickly joined the Neo Nazi movement that was growing in the UK at the time. Writing under the pseudonym Anton Long right wing activists, David Miot. Spent the nineteen eighties and nineteen ninety s as the as primary voice blending his Nazi sympathies with his interest in magic and the occult He created a comprehensive set of violent religious practices core among them was the art of calling a ritualized form of human sacrifice that targeted the Owen as enemies. During this time my it also worked with right-wing paramilitary organizations. It was a way for him to put his theoretical teachings on violence into practical action. Before long association with these groups as well as with the O. N. A. got him into trouble in Nineteen eighty-four might was suspected of committing a ritual. Listrik. In. March that year a seventy, eight year old woman named Hilda Merle disappeared from her home in Shropshire police found her car abandoned on the road near her house and feared foul play a manhunt ensued. Three days later and investigators searched a wooded area near where authorities had found Merle's car. He was preparing to leave when he notices something lying in the brush up ahead it was a shoe nearby, lay a piece of tattered clothing. as he approached the items, the officer caught a glimpse of something narrow and white hidden beneath a large vine covered Bush. It was a human leg. Merle was naked from the waist down she'd been beaten and stabbed multiple times. The coroner determined that she had still been alive when her attacker tossed her into the underbrush left to the elements Merle died of hypothermia. Following her murder numerous conspiracy theories arose in the press moral had campaigned for nuclear disarmament and criticized the UK's support of nuclear power as a result. Many people believed that government agents had killed her to silence her. Her nephew, a retired Royal Navy intelligence officer named Robert Greene investigated. The case Green believed that the British counter intelligence service M I five was involved with his answer murder, but according to him, they hadn't acted alone. Instead, Green believed there was an occult element to the crimes. The killer had etched strange symbols on Merle's driveway. They'd also abducted her on the Spring Equinox March twenty first, and they'd left her body near an ancient lay line. laylines thought to be invisible links between important ancient sites and landmarks. Some people believe that these lines represent esoteric sources of energy. Some Pagans. Took this theory one step further asserting that Ley lines held the key to arcane knowledge that modern humans had lost. Green didn't think it was a coincidence that Merle was lying on a Ley line instead since the lines were part of a pagan belief system, he proposed that M I five had hired Satanists to kill his aunt. while. It sounded like an outlandish claim Greens accusation wasn't all that bizarre. In the mid nineteen, eighty s fear of satanic cults was at an all time. High people often attributed anything that hinted at the cult to devil worshippers. Green suggested that M I five agents had taken advantage of this fear to disguise their role in murals assassination. Perhaps, they'd hired Satanists to ritualistically murder mural at the sort of red herring if the public believed a cult was to blame, it would deflect attention away from the government. It's not clear of Greens. Investigations Cause Police to suspect Owen a founder David Maya to being the culprit but lived in the area and was a well known leader of a satanic cult and in the Owen. As Black Book of Satan volume three adherence are told his celebrate spring equinox with the ritual calling. According to some sources, the police eventually interviewed about the crime, but they could not prove that he had any involvement in the case though Miot walked free the Hilda Merle incident may have marked the first time the Owen a came onto the polices radar miot feared it wouldn't be the last. After his brush with law enforcement in Nineteen eighty-four might became paranoid not long after his interview he said to have disbanded the ONA chapters he led in England. Deciding more decentralized approach was safer. He began reworking his teachings encouraging practitioners to focus on studying the ways of the Owen A in isolation. In addition my it continued to write prolifically publishing new works about the O., N., A., and Neo Nazi philosophy. Perhaps worries about law enforcement also convinced him to quit the country for whatever the reason miot allegedly left England for some time to study Arabic and travel across Africa in search. Of New Tarik Knowledge in his absence, a new figure emerged as the Public Voice of the O. N. A.. Richard, moult was a musical composer and longtime member of the organization using the bombastic pin name Christos beast mold put his own unique stamp on the group through his writings. He quickly became the Owen as new spokesman calling himself the outer representative. As, for my head, he continued to advise the group and even returned to England though it's not known exactly when. He began focusing not on the society he'd founded but on Neo Nazi activities outside the Owen a for him, the sevenfold way was primarily lifestyle of violence and he intended to embody it. In Nineteen ninety-three Maya joined the violent Neo Nazi group called combat eighteen. The organization began as the security wing of the British National Party of Far Right Political Club. Combat Eighteen purpose was to protect members from anti-fascist protesters, but the group quickly took on a life of its own and split from the British National Party in Nineteen ninety-three shortly after my joined. With his ONA experience my, it quickly distinguished himself among combat eighteen members speaking at meetings and helping to develop the group's ideology. He spent the next few years writing literature for the organization including instructions on building homemade bombs. In the mid nineteen, ninety s might Penta pamphlet called a practical guide to Aaron Revolution. It was a handbook instructing readers on how to plot terrorist attacks. It became one of his first writings to be posted on the Internet with that the genie was out of the bottle and the violent instruction manual spread rapidly. Simultaneously, with Miot, releasing this powder keg combat eighteen was in the midst of a crisis. The head of the organization Charlie Sargent was sentenced to life in prison after he and a friend stabbed a member of a rival Neo Nazi faction to death. My it had been a loyal follower of sergeants. So after sergeants arrest might left combat eighteen and formed his own group called the National Socialist Movement, he immediately set about recruiting new members. However, it wouldn't be long before the law came for him to. According to one online source in Nineteen Ninety, eight detectives from Scotland Yard arrested my it. They claimed his online publications including a practical guide to area and revolution incited murder and racial hatred. Though the authorities eventually released my it, a massive cross-departmental investigation is said to have begun. Might appeared on the cover of the Anti Fascist magazine searchlight, but the caption, the most evil Nazi in Britain. This second major criminal inquiry must have scared him after being questioned in the Hilda Merle murder case he reportedly disbanded his ONA chapters this time my it resigned from his own group the National Socialist Movement after nearly a decade on the Neo Nazi movements frontlines, he decided it was time to return to his esoteric studies. But then in September of Nineteen Ninety Eight, he did something that no one saw coming. He converted to Islam. Coming. Up We'll explore miot sudden change of faith and how his violent writings encouraged three murders. podcasters you know the world can be chaotic and unpredictable. But how far would you go to turn the tides of favor and your direction? At the newest spotify original from podcast, we're taking a closer look at bad omens, good luck charms and age-old traditions that just might have the power to change our fates. Each episode of superstitions presents a new drama that unpack different belief. Can Holding your breath while passing a cemetery save your life will carrying a rabbit's foot. Bring you luck. How can you go through life always avoiding the number thirteen and why should you try? They may seem mystical unusual completely illogical. But one thing is certain. You ignore them at your own risk. You can find and follow superstitions free on spotify. Over ever you get your podcasts to hear more podcast search podcast network in spotify search and find a growing slate of thrilling new series to enjoy. This episode is brought to you. By bollandbranch, bollandbranch offers some of the softest sheets in the world. They have thousands of five-star reviews including from three former. US presidents bollandbranch cotton is rain Fed pesticide-free and carries the highest organic certification. That's why it's so soft their thousand dollar quality but start at just one hundred and sixty dollars plus you can sleep on them for a month. risk-free restrictions may apply see bollandbranch dot com for details. That's B. O. L. L. Andbranch DOT COM. Now back to the story. In the early nineteen nineties David Miot stepped back from his leadership of the Owen a to practice what he preached. He joined and launched several Neo Nazi political organizations becoming one of the most prominent British far right figures. Then in nineteen ninety, eight miot shocked the world by converting to Islam. This action must have confused a lot of at the time but some think my it was trying to rehabilitate his reputation. Islam has often been called the religion of peace. It's very name comes from the Arabic form of that word optimists that my it's change in faith was his way of rejecting his previous dedication to violence. But my it's true intentions quickly became apparent when he began writing track supporting Osama bin Laden in his terrorist crusade against the capitalist West. Despite, viewing Muslims as ethnically and racially inferior might saw radical Islam as a vehicle to reach his alternate pock Elliptic Vision for the future. He wanted Aryan superhumans to dominate the world and then colonize the galaxy. But before that could happen western capitalism had to be defeated. In practical terms might likely saw groups like the Taliban and Al Qaeda as natural allies against his greatest enemy a capitalist Judeo Christian society. But even as he worked to create a new image for himself as a radical Muslim, my it's past writings on Aryan ism continued to haunt him. He had already been investigated for inciting racial hatred but in nineteen, ninety nine, he became entangled in yet another murder case. Over several weeks in April three, nail bombs exploded across London the blasts injured one, hundred, thirty, nine people and killed three including a pregnant woman. The first device detonated in a predominantly black neighborhood. The second went off in an area where many Asians lived and the third targeted London's Gay community. Police eventually arrested a twenty two year old named David Copeland for the Crime Copeland was a member of the National Socialist Movement. The group Maya had started in nineteen ninety seven on being questioned. He said his goal had been to start a race war. Investigators noticed immediately that Copeland's actions seemed to be directly inspired by the National Socialist Movement which was based on my it's philosophies on one of their web pages. They wrote that really war means creating tension and terror with an ethnic communities and damaging or destroying their property and their homes by firebombs and or explosive devices. Part of this involves attacking individuals and killing some of them. These incriminating words led police right to Maya door. He was questioned extensively during the investigation but my it denied knowing copeland or having anything to do with his bombing spree and ultimately police were unable to prove. He had any involvement in the attacks but that didn't stop a lot of people from believing he'd both known and Mentor D- Copeland. By this point my it was free to continue his pursuit of radical Islam and to start writing a new for the a though this remained a secret in the two thousands both Maya, and the Owen as. Roman Richard moult continued to be influential in the organization using the Internet to spread their work. The two could reach more potential members than they ever had before. In addition to recruiting people through the Internet, the ONA started for members among different subsets of society. One group, the a targeted were the so called below biens. This is what they termed artists, musicians and writers who they believed shared the O. N. AS SINISTER EGO. For example, many satanic death metal bands and their fans were below biens and thus ripe for recruiting. Owen a also targeted gang members might believe that like below begins these groups followed an ideology similar to the Owen as the society even went as far as claiming that a biker gang in Florida and a Hispanic group in New York, follow their teachings. The group's final allies were what they called the niners. These were individuals that followed the immoral teachings of the Owen and lived what they called an adversarial life. It's unclear if niners followed the magical aspects of the O. N. a. a similar group of recruits is called the drax who presumably obeyed Richard Molds Personal Drek in philosophy. In two, thousand, nine mult published a booklet called the directly. In Way it elaborated on existing Owen a beliefs and sought to prepare for Labor is, for quote, the return of the dark gods through image word and music. In addition to this artistic focus, the in way lighted the practical teachings of the organization including the art of calling it also focused on using violence antisocial behaviour to undermine Western society. The book was apparently a success as it turned out. The way was precisely what the Owen a needed to reach a whole new class of potential converts. Anyone who wanted to become a drek simply had to participate in a pledge ceremony either with others or alone at these events the new member stated I accept there is no law, no authority, no justice except the Drek and that calling is unnecessary act of life I believe in one guide are directly in law and in our right to rule mundane 's. After that the new initiate cut his thumb with a hunting knife and let the blood drip onto a piece of white paper. He then burned the piece of paper and said, I swear on my. Honor as DRAC that from this day forth, I will never surrender I will die fighting rather than submit to anyone and will always uphold the directly in code. Afterwards the DREK had to carry the hunting knife used in the ceremony at all times. Once they were officially initiated into the decks. Members were encouraged to create chaos terrorize people and defy public laws in the DREK way mult wrote we are sinister. We are a moral we are feral. We are a new sinister species, a new type of human being. In the book mold described anyone who is not drag as a mundane and encouraged violence against them he wrote that directs should treat Mondays as enemies disobey their laws and police and steal their wealth and resources. mult claimed that the worst type of mundane was a group. He called Homo Hubris because Owen a literature is vague and often contradictory in nature. It's not clear precisely who the Homo Hubris or supposed to be, but considering the ONA's ties to neo, Nazi, philosophy and Satanism, the word may refer to Jewish or Christian people. Multi argues that these people are responsible for everything that is wrong with the world directs are encouraged to use manipulate and is them. Molds teachings on the directly in way attracted new converts to Owen a philosophy by removing some of the black magic and satanic rituals from his hateful philosophy. He was able to reach extremists who might otherwise have dismissed the group as being too. Esoteric. In the last ten years numerous far right. Paramilitary groups have used Owen A and drek in literature to inspire their violent actions. One such group was a British Association called national. Action founded in two thousand thirteen. It only took three years for the government outlawed as a terrorist organization. Despite that national action remained active underground. That's how a far-right provocateur named Garin helm found. The group helm had gained notoriety in the British press after the assassination of liberal British politician Joe Cox. Cox had been an outspoken advocate for immigration and antifascism and was murdered by far right extremist in two thousand sixteen. In an undercover video, Helms stated that Cox a traitor to Jerez and deserve to be killed. This wasn't the first time helmed got in trouble for hate speech in two thousand fourteen after he threatened a different female politician with anti Semitic language on twitter investigators searched Helms home there they discovered his connection to national action and the Owen A. Helm had a photo of Hitler hanging above his fireplace. But below that on the mantle, he had another picture. It was a complex starlike figure with seven points and nine lines representing the sevenfold sinister way. In other words, it was the logo of the Owen A. According to hope not hate a British anti-racist group helm wasn't the only Owen a supporter among national actions, leaders, Ryan Fleming the head of a chapter in Yorkshire, was also a top figure in the Neo Nazi group. He'd made headlines in two thousand seventeen for raping a minor, his second sexual assault conviction in just six years. But the Owen as influence on national action was only the tip of the Neo Nazi iceberg. The society has also significantly influenced to other far right groups the Atom Waffen Division based in Florida and its British counterpart, the Sonnen Creek Division. According to hope not hate these groups published some of the most disturbing propagandists scene from the far right. In several decades the zone and creek is known for promoting rape torture and pedophilia through their documents and videos. And if that's not bad enough, these two off-shoot troops have also been implicated in multiple murders. Coming up, we'll explore how the ONA inspired a terrorist plot against the US military. This episode of secret societies is brought to you by. Safe simply safe was designed to be easy to use while protecting your whole home twenty, four seven, order it online with the click of a button when my box arrived, I was able to get started on it right away. I didn't have to wait around for a technician to install it or signing two year contracts. I just had to place the sensors plugged in and connected it to my. Wifi. Then suddenly my home was protected, not only just simply safe work with the census look great in my home. In fact, you can hardly tell they're there. They just blend right in and simply saints twenty, four, seven, professional monitoring and emergency dispatch starts at only fifty cents a day. It makes perfect sense that US news and World Report called simply safe the best overall home security of twenty twenty. Head to SIMPLISAFE DOT COM slash secret to get a free HD camera that simply safe dot com slash secret to make sure they know that are sent you. This episode is brought to you by bio life plasma services. Now, more than ever people want to know if there's anything they can do to help and the answer is, yes have bio life plasma services. Your plasma is desperately needed to create life changing medicines to help treat people with immune deficiencies. Those who are most risk right now and when you donate plasma bio life, you can earn up to six hundred dollars in your first month as a token of appreciation for your time. So please become a donor at bio life visit vile life plasma dot com to schedule an appointment. Now back to the story. In the early August the Owen a increased, its worldwide membership using the Internet and social media to reach and recruit initiates the total number of members remains unknown. Since then to Neo Nazi terrorist groups who were influenced by the a called the Atom Waffen Division and the zone and Creek Division have come to the attention of local authorities in both the US and the UK. The Atom Waffen Division was founded in Florida in two thousand fifteen. It was a fascist terrorist organization that wanted to destroy civilization and bring about racial cleansing by ending Western capitalist. Society. In addition to these Neo Nazi aims the atom often division followed satanic teachings of the Owen A. This wasn't surprising as according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. The atom often division was steeped in the history of the American White Power Movement and Esoteric religions. The group published material with a small press that was run by one of its members. A man named Joshua Sutter Sutter also led the temple of blood which was a chapter of the Owen A. All these ties to the society meant that it didn't take long before the Atom Waffen division began following the ONA's as most deadly practice calling. In January two thousand eighteen authorities found a gay Jewish teenager named blazed Bernstein murdered in California with more than twenty stab wounds. Officers arrested a former classmate of Bernstein's named Samuel Woodward, and charged him with homicide. Investigators soon, discovered that Woodward was a member of a California chapter of the Atom Waffen Division. They believed that Owen A and Adam. Often teachings on antisemitism and calling drove Woodward to murder. Bernstein as a result authorities charged him with a hate crime in addition to murder. As up now the case is still pending, but it wasn't an isolated incident. Police have arrested numerous other members of the atom often division for various violent crimes. These transgressions ranged from weapon and drug charges to possession of child pornography, terrorist threats, and several murders. The group also inspired a sister society of violent extremists across the sea. By late two, thousand, eighteen, the atom Waffen divisions. Owen. A inspired brand of Neo Nazism spawned an English chapter called the zone and Creek. Division. The founders of the sonnen creek identified with the panic undercurrents in the Adam Kaufman and Owen Eighth LAFI. The also valued the violent teachings of draconian way which claimed that laws were inventions of the mundane 's therefore, practitioners were encouraged to be lawless. To that End Design Creek Division embraced crimes like Pedophilia and rape using encrypted APPs, and the dark web to spread their ideas. However, it wasn't these grievous crimes that pushed the group into the national consciousness. Instead Design Creek Division made headlines at England when they suggested that someone should assassinate Prince Harry. The group accused him of race mixing when he married Meghan Markle a biracial woman. Then they posted a photograph online showing Prince Harry with a gun to his head the caption read seal later race traitor. Unfortunately, this is fairly tame compared to the group's other publications. In the past the Zaanun Creek Division has also produced a video in which an apparently willing female participant was tortured and cut with a knife. In other posts, members have asserted that all police officers should be raped and killed. The Anti Fascist Group hope not hate stated some members of the Zone Creek Division have also carried out satanic fantasies allegations of rape and imprisonment against their own members are circulating. In two, thousand, nineteen, two teenage members of the group Michael Shoot Chuck and Oscar done Hausky were convicted of encouraging terrorism though he wasn't charged for shoe chuck also maintained a blog where he discussed child rape. For his part done Khoza rouse stated that it would be better to decapitate a child. Then let it become a liberal politician. He also said quote terror is the best political weapon because nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death. For All these reasons in February twenty twenty, the group became the Second Neo Nazi organization after national action that authorities banned in the UK. In addition to these groups, Lone Wolf individuals have also found inspiration in Owen writings in two thousand, nineteen, an unnamed sixteen year old Owen. A practitioner became the youngest person convicted for planning a terror attack in the UK. He used to journal to charters progress as he studied the Owen as teachings on personal transformation. His goal was to eliminate empathy for others and become in his words like the living dead. He plotted to attack places around his hometown and wanted to set fire to synagogues. He also sought bomb-making materials and professed admiration for Hitler. Thankfully police arrested the teenager for his online activities before he had a chance to carry out Anita's plans, he was convicted in early twenty twenty for his actions and sentenced to nearly seven years in prison. Similarly, in the spring of two, thousand, twenty, twenty, two year old US army private. Ethan Meltzer also attempted to put the ONA's teachings into practice. MELTZER. I became affiliated with the O. A in two thousand nineteen though exactly how he got involved is unknown. Besides consuming the group's literature, he also obtained an instruction manual produced by the terrorist group Isis called harvest of the soldiers. The booklet described how to perpetrate terror attacks against US military personnel. In April two thousand, twenty Meltzer learned that the army was transferring his unit from Italy to a base in Turkey, it was around that time that he began to plan an ambush on his own fellow soldiers. In numerous encrypted online discussions with a members meltzer laid out a plan to create a mass casualty incident against his own unit. He provided satellite maps of their base and Turkey with each building clearly labeled he also gave details about other soldiers, strength surveillance, and defensive capabilities. The plan involved the Owen A. Middleman meltzer provided the details to his contacts with the group and those people promised to pass it onto owen a affiliated jihadi extremists in the area meltzer also supposedly exchanged messages with a member of Al Qaeda. He intended to ensure that its contacts in the O. N. a understood how deadly serious he was. He acknowledged that he was willing to die but that he didn't WanNa throw his life away for nothing. He told them that he was expecting results. The case is still pending. So we don't know the full details of what happened, but we do know authorities closed in on Meltzer and arrested him in. June. Two Thousand Twenty once in custody he admitted to everything and proudly stated that was a traitor to the United States. He declared he had wanted to kill as many of his fellow soldiers as possible. His ultimate goal had been to start a war in the region like the A and the atom Waffen Division meltzer claimed he wanted to bring about social change through terrible violence. As we've seen in many of these horrible acts the ultimate goal of Owen, a followers to hasten the collapse of Western civilization and capitalism. They believed that the best way to do this is by spreading chaos and destruction. Once, the downfall of society has been achieved Owen practitioners then want to establish a white supremacist dominion. In their more esoteric teachings they profess that the West is under political and financial domination by the May genes, which is their code word for Jewish people. Once the O. A ended allies can overcome these forces as we covered last week. Then they believe in new leader called VENDEX will emerge. According to Owen a writings this messiah like figure will lead the renewed West to colonize the solar system and establish an Arian Bill. Lactic, empire. It makes for a disturbing picture of the future, but it's one that David Maya and the O. N. A. have been obsessed with bringing about. In the present through the terrible crimes of Neo Nazi groups and right wing extremists the O. N. A. and the directly in way have spread across the world and taken on a sinister life of their own. However while the Owen, a seems to enjoy more popularity than ever before it's founder David Miot has distanced himself of the group. He renounced his conversion to Islam around two thousand ten and publicly rejected all forms of extremism condemning his past writings and actions. He now spends his retirement following a personal philosophy called the newness way an alternative to the sevenfold sinister it preaches peace tolerance and compassion. But Journalists Nick Lulls of hope not hate cast doubt on my it's one hundred, eighty degree turn. He insisted that all of my its actions including conversion to Islam and his creation of the numerous way have all been part of a larger plan. lulls and others who have studied the Owen a pointed out that practitioners of the sevenfold way were encouraged to perform something called an insight as part of their personal transformation. Journey Lowell stated insight roles are a deliberate ploy to infiltrate, explore, and subvert other organizations and religions. He noted that Richard Moult also started to distance himself from the Owen A and started practicing Catholicism. But like my and his Islamic faith multiple renounced his conversion and began writing for the Owen a again. Religion Scholar Jacob see sent hold seconded Lowell Skepticism sent hold stated that while Anton Long David. Miot suspected alter ego claimed to have retired from the Owen. A long has continued to publish documents on various Owen a websites in recent years if it is Anton long as most experts suspect, then he clearly hasn't given up his role in the organization at all. Instead, his retirement and alleged change of heart might have been just another charade a part of a larger diabolical plan that has been emotion motion for over fifty years. Manipulation. Of others is a core philosophy of the Owen A to achieve this members are encouraged to lie Maya's longtime insistence that he is not Anton. Long is an example of this. So it's not hard to imagine that while he publicly as spouses piece, he's still working behind the scenes planning for the downfall of the West Meanwhile across the globe far right extremism is on the rise social upheavals and political showdowns have shaken society when religious studies, Professor Connell, Monette interviewed Owen a members Mo- net found them hopeful about the group's future. Thanks again, for tuning into secret societies will be back on Thursday with a new episode. You can find all episodes of secret societies and all of the podcast originals for free on spotify. We'll see you next time. Hang a horseshoe above your door, keep a rabbit's foot in your pocket and follow superstitions freons modifying listen every Wednesday for the surprising backstories to our most curious beliefs and thrilling tales that illuminate the mystical Irina some of our favorite superstitions.
Order of the Nine Angles Pt. 1
"Due to the graphic nature of this secret societies rituals listener discretion is advised. This episode contains descriptions of Murder Abuse Racist Ideology and sexual acts that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen something else to note all of the groups covered on this show operate in secret the details included in this episode are based on extensive research, but ultimately can never be one hundred percent verified except by society members themselves. In. Two thousand one journalist Nick Lulls walked into a pub in Shropshire. England, he was there to meet David Miot one of the country's most notorious neo Nazis. Looking around the pub lows spotted miot in a corner booth. It look more like a college professor than an armed right wing extremist he had a thick. Beard and wore John Lennon. Beneath a tweed newsboy cap. Without hesitation laws walked to my it's booth and sat down across from him. He had only one thing on his agenda for the meeting to get my it to admit that he was Anton. Long the mysterious leader of the satanist group, the order of nine angles however, despite lulls best efforts might adamantly denied it claiming he had no direct association with the Satanic Group. Finally, the journalists gathered his things to leave. But just as he stood up. It slid an envelope across the table. It had lows name typed across the front curious lows back down and opened it. Inside was a sheet of cream-colored stationery bearing a neatly typed note, the letter accused Lulls of spreading lies and at the very end miot challenged him to a duel. lulls looked up in shock to see that my it had opened his jacket inside was a silver dagger embossed with the insignia of the Nazi ss then. Leaned in and said in a quiet voice, I've been involved in two previous duels and one them both. Hi I'm Vanessa Richardson. I'm Greg Poulsen, and this is secret societies of spotify original from podcast. Every Thursday. We examine history's most exclusive organizations from around the world and try to shine a light on these mysterious groups from the aluminum to the order of nine angles will explore how much impact each secret society actually had on the world around them. This is our first episode on the order of Nine Angles a prominent occult group based in the United Kingdom Mixing Traditional Satanism with Neo, nazism and witchcraft. The group is rumored to have outposts in Europe North America and other continents. This week will look at the origins of the order of nine angles and explore their bizarre beliefs and practices will also investigate their leader a mysterious Anton Long. Next. Week will delve into the organizations legacy around the world will discuss some of the group's members who have been accused of planning terrorist activities and committing murders. Finally, we'll look at how the group has reinvented itself in the age of social media. We have all that and more coming up stay with us. The order of nine angles also called the Owen. A was founded in the nineteen sixties when three neo pagan covens combined in England. Little is known about these groups except that their members worshipped a malevolent goddess and answered to an enigmatic grand mistress. Then at some point in the early seventies, this mysterious woman left the area and moved to Australia paving the way for a new leader to emerge. However many the story surrounding these early days of the Owen a have the ring of mythology. In truth, it's possible. Maybe even likely that the grand mistress and her covens never existed as many sources don't even mention her. Instead researchers suggest that a man known as Anton Long may have actually started the order of nine angles. Some sources state that long fathered a child with the grand mistress of the order before she decamped to. Australia. Whether long founded the O A or was simply an early member by the nineteen seventies heat emerged as the group's leader. Unfortunately, that's where specific details about long Peter out is exact identity remains unknown. Some people believe that long was simply a pseudonym that was used by various Owen a leaders over the years. Others assert that he was the alter ego of well-known British Neo Nazi and occultist David Miot. Miot has steadfastly denied being Anton long even to the point of threatening violence but an analysis of his philosophy and an understanding of his history has led many academics to conclude that long and my it are one in the same for the purposes of this episode will assume that they're right. David Maya was born in one, thousand, nine, hundred fifty and grew up in the Modern Day African nation of Tanzania where his father was a civil servant. Miami also spent part of his Childhood in Singapore there he studied mysticism and martial arts in addition to these varied subjects might loved history especially stories about ancient Sparta. He liked learning about the civilizations, warriors and their regimented disciplined lives coming of age during the early years of manned spaceflight might also developed an interest in physics and astronomy. He came to believe that humanity's destiny lay in colonizing the stars. By his teenage years, Miot had begun to mix all of his various interests together. If there was any hope for humanity to establish the Galactic Empire he dreamed of, he believed that people had to return to the noble austere lifestyle of warriors like the ancient spartans he admired in other words, Miot thought that human beings needed to evolve beyond their present status as pampered weaklings. My, it wasn't done adding to his diverse brew of influences either in nineteen sixty seven, he travelled to England to finish his schooling. Their Maya developed an interest in Alchemy the occult finding them compatible with his ideas about strengthening human consciousness. In pursuit of this Maya join several secret groups that practiced ritual magic hoping this would teach him how to summon demons and other dark forces. It was during this time that might discover the writings of the nineteenth century German philosopher Friedrich. Nietzsche. Nietzsche was well known for his theory of the Uber Mench a superhuman state that he believed all people should aspire to among other things Nietzsche talk that an Uber Manche would move beyond the need for religion by finding meaning in the everyday world. In the nineteen thirties, his ideas were co opted by the Nazi party in Germany as a model for the ideal. Arianne. This racist interpretation of Nietzsche's Uber Mench drew my its interest the most. In nineteen, sixty nine, he witnessed a street fight between skinheads and left-wing protesters watching the violence play out my it immediately felt an affinity with the skinheads viewing them as Noble Nici and warriors fighting against powerful establishment enemies. Inspired Maya joined to Neo Nazi crew called the British Movement of this club. He would later state to me Adolf Hitler and his movement seemed to embody some of the ideals I believed. Magic should achieve. They seem to represent a satanic spirit in urge to conquer. Perhaps, in pursuit of this urge to conquer, it became more politically involved in the early seventies. He wrote treatises attended protests and gave political speeches on behalf of the British movement, and then for his own far right hate group the National Democratic Freedom Movement in addition he continued his exploration of Magic and the occult according to some scholars. This is how miot I stumbled across the order of nine angles. According to its own legends the Owen emerged in an area of western England, known as the Welsh marches in the prehistoric past it was populated by native Britons whose ancestors came to England during the Ice Age. In the intervening Millennia, however, several tribes carved out their own territories and set up altars to worship there many disparate God's. One of these deities was a violent and sinister goddess after Christianity began to replace the ancient pagan religions of the native Britons. A members believed that worship of this unnamed deity continued in secret with devotees passing her rituals down through the generations at some point in these years, the order of nine angles allegedly sprang out of this tradition. In nineteen seventy-three Miot met the woman who is leading Owen A and was initiated into the group soon, after might was writing for the order under the pseudonym Anton. Long. He might have chosen this monitor because of its similarity to the name of the most infamous satanist in the World Anton Louet. Anton Levay was an American who headed the Church of Satan his organization regarded the devil as a metaphor for anti-establishment behaviour as an atheist he dismissed theism all forms as well as any sort of afterlife instead levay promoted. Satanism. As a form of rational thought that focused on improving the self. However love as brand of satanism would soon take on more sinister associations in the wake of the nineteen sixty-nine Manson family murders many associated the violence with the Church of Satan Jay sebring who was killed alongside Sharon tate was said to have been a member of the group and one of the Manson family killers Susan Atkins had participated in a theatrical ritual with Llovei though Levine himself never claimed to be connected to the grisly murders. Outsiders found it easy to believe that his black magic infused religion inspired them. It's no surprise. Then that everyday people found Levin distressing my on the other hand seemed to find him both mainstream and shallow. He didn't accept the Bays metaphorical conception of Satanism, and he was dissatisfied with the other occult groups he had found. According to historian, Nicholas Good Rick Clark Miot was looking for something more exciting, dangerous, and truly evil. My also likely rejected LE`veon's brand of satanism because Levine was ethnically Jewish. Since my it was a neo Nazi, he would have naturally dismissed the group Levin founded as a Jewish absurdity. Then in his alter ego as Anton long might set about creating an alternative in his group Satan be some sort of metaphorical simple they would. Worship the dark lord as a Deity Miot believe that this would allow them to tap into the evil forces that promoted individual growth and strength. As the leader of the order of nine angles might also established a set of doctrines and training regiments for new recruits. He developed rituals, unpublished news books and pamphlets to draw in converts. It's unclear if he had success expanding the group's membership, some sources suggests that the order consisted mainly of Maya ten a few dedicated disciples until the nineteen nineties. Owen as magazines in the eighties and nineties had several hundred readers. Others argue that my it oversaw the establishment of several Owen, a temples throughout England during this period. What is certain however is that during these years, the Owen a functioned as the esoteric wing at the broader Neo Nazi movement in England. Miot knew that some people who were tracked into Magic and the occult were also sympathetic to radical political philosophies. So he likely used the Owen A to indoctrinate followers with his neo Nazi worldview. To that end much of the Owen as early literature and rituals centered around not system and the sanctification of out of Hitler. Wants a church service might devised called. The massive heresy even included an alter that contained swastikas a photograph of Hitler and a copy of his book Mein Calm. During the ceremony adherence chanted, we believe Adolf Hitler was sent by our Gods to guide us to greatness we believe in the inequality of the races and in the rights of the Arians to live according to the laws of the folk. This was only the beginning in combining Neo Nazi precepts with Satanism Maya created a religion of such evil that it went beyond the bizarre into the outright criminal. Coming up will witness the ONA's terrifying ceremony of recalling. Listeners I have a surprising new trick for you. You know you can find love and a bar or on an APP why not a podcast in blind dating the new spotify original from podcast we're expanding the places you can meet your match with a twist he'll never see coming. Every Wednesday youtuber and host Terry Michelle introduces one hopeful single to two strangers in a voice only call. Through a series of illuminating games in questions the trio finds all the sweet this and awkwardness of for state minus the distraction of appearances. But once are hopeful single chooses their match. The cameras are turned on and it's either butterflies or goodbye. Blind dating airs weekly with new episodes every Wednesday you can find and follow blind dating free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode of secret societies brought to you by simply safe simply safe was designed to be easy to use while protecting your whole home twenty, four seven, order it online with the click of a button. When my box arrived, I was able to get started on it right away. I didn't have to wait around for a technician to install it or signing two year contracts I just had to place the sensors plugged in. And connected it to my Wifi. Then suddenly my home was protected, not only simply safe work, but the census looked great in my home. In fact, you can hardly tell they're there. They just blend right in and simply saints to four seven professional monitoring and emergency dispatch starts at only fifty cents a day. It makes perfect sense that US news and World Report called simply safe the best overall home security of twenty twenty. Head to SIMPLISAFE DOT COM slash secret to get a free HD camera that simply safe dot com slash secret to make sure they know that our show sent you. Now. Back to the story. In the late nineteen, sixty s or early nineteen seventies neo Nazi organizer David Miot founded the order of nine angles under the pseudonym Anton Long. Under my it stewardship, the group Combined Satanism with Neo Nazi ideologies, which might called National Socialism. Then they publish documents to attract more followers. These new members were taught. The ONA's core ideology that the world was divided between two distinct realms. The I was the causal realm or the natural world. We all inhabit where the laws of physics prevailed and reality could be observed and tested. The. Second World that might taught about was the causal realm as the name implied it was the dark opposite of the real world, a supernatural place where the laws of science were meaningless and sinister chaotic forces ruled. An. Practitioners goal was to become president in this a causal realm in order to harness its energy according to my it the a causal plane could then be used to effect change in the real world. This is where magic and sorcery came into play. A literature stated that there were three kinds of magic. The first external magic is what most people think of when they envisioned sorcery. It requires ceremonial rituals done by groups of magicians and include spells for specific purposes. The second form of magic was an internal version of the first, which could be performed alone or with one other practitioner as religious studies. Professor Connell Monette stated this form focused on the transformation of the sorcerer from something human to something alien. In other words, it allowed the practitioner to attain the Nichii an Uber, Manche ideal of self mastery and godlike wisdom and to become possessed by non-human for says. The final form of Owen, a magic called jahic magic attempted to use sorcery to create social change. This was a demonic version of societal disruption and transformation much like what the Nazis attempted, but with the addition of magic rituals, supposedly only the highest ranking members of the order were powerful enough practice this. Might combining magic with real world actions such as terrorism, assault, and political provocation. The ONA sought to disrupt society from within lay believe that this guerilla form of warfare would be much more difficult to stamp out. To that end beginner adherents were encouraged to commit crimes and wreak havoc as for Owen as advanced practitioners. They were busy trying to use dark magic to unleash the a causal realms sinister forces. It was this task that largely occupied David Miot he worked hard to develop a specific system to teach adherents how to harness the console realms power to bring about change in the natural world. My it called this method, the sevenfold sinister way. Owen a members at the first level were called neophytes. This stage was mostly about reading group materials and learning about the basics of Owen beliefs and practice. The second Owen a level was the stage of the initiate in addition to studying magic initiates were also required to complete a demanding physical task. One option involved walking thirty two miles in hilly terrain in less than seven hours. Lastly, in this year, it's required, find a partner, introduce them to the dark arts and then complete sexual rituals with them according to own a literature. The purpose of this stage was to awaken the darker sinister aspects of the psyche to increase a person's capacity for evil. The next level on the win a hierarchy involved becoming an external adept. At this point, the practitioner had to create a local chapter which the Owen a called a next John to recruit new members. In order to be considered legitimate, the external adept news after had to remain active for at least six months. In this time, they were required to perform regular rituals one of which was called the ceremony of recalling details about the specific gathering were written down in an Owen, a text known as the grim war of bath met. In the Early Fourteenth Century, the Knights Templar were accused of worshiping Batum at a dark. God. who was frequently depicted as a goat headed creature and thought to symbolize Satan. The Owen a however taught bathroom. It was a goddess both the mother and bride of Satan they described her as a violent entity to whom human sacrifices should be made. However in order to make a bloody offering, Tabatha Matt Owen a members I needed to summon the goddess into the every day causal realm. The best way they could do this was by performing the ceremony of the recalling. If, you were an a practitioner attending this ritual. It would be an experience you would never forget. You're standing at a small group of your brothers and sisters and a large wooded area. There are torches all around their light making up for the fating. Day. Ahead you can see a series of carefully placed stones. Wonder. At the significance of their strategic placement, you see people walking through the woods towards you and your brethren. Immediately that the first person is the Guardian. He wears the characteristic black robe of the role with a white mask covering his face in his ceremonial white robe the priest follows obediently behind him. The priestess rounds out the procession. She has on a red robe with a white sash across the middle. Suddenly she speeds up and you notice she has a blindfold in her hand as you watch the priestess carefully play-set around the priests is. With his vision restricted the priestess leads him to each congregation member for the ceremonial kiss. When it's your turn, you lean forward and peck the priest on each cheek noting how cold his skin is despite the warm evening error. Then you watch as the priestess leads the Priest into the circle of stones where the master and mistress of the temple are waiting. On being beckoned you and the rest of the Tannock congregation follow. You all slow down at the site of a large wooden altar. It sits at the head of the circle line by rows of red candles you watch as the black robed master moves to stand in front of the priest you're moved as you listened him chant several magical words repeating each invocation three times. At the conclusion of these incantations you in the congregation step forward to surround the blindfolded priest. Then you all walk slowly counterclockwise intoning the Latin words of the Diablo loose a black mass ritual chant. As your chanting escalates in volume the Guardian as the priests on the altar between the flickering red candles you watch the mistress carefully removes the priests garment then taking a flask filled with oil she pours it over his naked body anointing him when she's finished, she removes his blindfold. Now you and your fellow initiate step forward and chant the Diab loose again moving counterclockwise around the circle of stones you watch as the priests is shot and his breaths become slow and deep. As you continue walking around the circle, the mistress and the priestess, each removed their robes. Then the priestess begins performing oral sex on the priest when she finishes the Guardian List the priest and places him on his knees in front of the priestess. At the same time, the master kneels before the mistress. Then, the master and priests speak in tandem saying I, put my kisses at your feet and kneel before you who crushes your enemies. The mistress and the Priestess respond kiss me and I shall make you as an eagle to its prey touch me and I shall make you as a strong sword that severs stains my earth with blood. Moved by the power of the moment you and the rest of the congregation continued to circulate and chant all the While you watch as the priest, the priestess, the master, and the mistress begin having sex in front of the altar. With the ritual act is over the guarding approaches the priest and carefully places a hood over his head. Then he binds priests, ankles and wrists and lays on the altar once again. Though you're chanting and walking caught up in the moment you watch as the master takes the sacred knife then he waits for a signal from the mistress. When she gives it, you stare unflinching as the master presses the blade into the priests neck and slice it open with a swift practiced movement killing him. As the blood runs over the altar, her the master catches some of it. In the Empty Chalice, you know that he will save the priest blood for use in the sacred wheat cakes that the congregation will eat at the next new moon. For now you and the rest of the members gather in front of the altar watching as the Guardian drags the priest's body away. In his absence, the mistress picks up the sacred knife and pointed at the master saying so you have sown and from your seating gifts may come over. He the words I speak. Then she dips the end of the knife in the chalice and taps it against each congregants forehead. When the Blade touches your head, you feel the smear of the prese warm blood against your skin. After the anointing the mistress speaks again. I know you and all the thoughts within your hearts yet not one of you is as hateful or as loving as I with a glance, I can strike you dead. Then again, she goes to each member of the congregation and his them on the lips but this time she also removes their robes stripping them naked after she takes off your clothes she offers you the second chalice full of red wine. You feel a surge go through your body during the ritual slaying she channeled her deeply honed skill of sinister empathy. This allowed her to summon the dark goddess, and now by giving you the wine she is signifying that she is chosen you to be the vessel that will carry bathroom at spirit. You are honored to be the Chosen One. You take a sip of the wine and then hand it back to the mistress. She passes it around to each of the other members after one final invocation you and the mistress consummate the ceremony by having sex. When you finish the Guardian passes more wind around, and then finally the ceremony ends with an alcohol and marijuana. Ritual Orgy. Smaller chapters of the order of nine angles are said to have performed truncated version of this ceremony. Those abridged rituals didn't include a human sacrifice however according to Owen a documents the larger chapters ritualistically kill one of their willing members. Fortunately, this gruesome ceremony was only performed. Once every seventeen years, its purpose was to summon the power bath met with her might the believed could create chaos in the real world and even spark wars. The ceremony of recalling had one more disturbing feature. If an NA chapter after failed to find a member who was willing to be ritualistically sacrificed, they were encouraged to find an unwilling person from the general public to kill this sinister practice was called calling. Coming up, we'll explore this dark and disturbing tradition. This episode is brought to you by go daddy. As we reopen. Don't you want your pocket of America to feel like its own where small businesses are finding new ways online and in person to be there for you a small town feeling where your friends instead of that chain recommend their guy. So when you want to bring your idea to everyone, remember go daddy is here to help you make it happen with websites, marketing tools, and guidance for free. Learn more at go daddy dot. com. Lists episode is brought to you by Bollandbranch bollandbranch offers some of the softest sheets in the world. They have thousands of five-star reviews including from three former US presidents. Bollandbranch cotton is rainfed pesticide-free and carries the highest organic certification. That's why it's so soft their thousand dollar quality but start at just one hundred and sixty dollars plus you can sleep on them for a month. risk-free restrictions may apply see bollandbranch dot com for details. That's B. O. L. L., andbranch, DOT com. Thou- back to the story. The order of nine angles followed a theology that broke the world into two distinct planes, the causal realm of ordinary experience and the a causal realm of dark supernatural for says. The goal of the Owen, a was to harness the power of the a causal realm so that they could affect change in the real world. The Way to achieve that objective was to follow the sevenfold sinister way which included practicing acts of violence, endurance and ritual sacrifice. Beginning at the stage of external adept practitioners of Owen, a had to learn the art of sacrificial murder to that end they were tasked with choosing victims called offers from among the general population. In a treatise titled Concerning calling as an Art David Miot in his guys Anton Long wrote some humans by nature by character are rotten worthless and when this rotten character is revealed by their deeds, it is beneficial to remove them to call them. For, my a rotten person was a weakling who lacked honor, this was an overly broad definition meaning that lists politicians or even a member of another satanist organization could qualify as targets. However Owen a practitioners didn't call people at random instead the group's literature dictated to ways to choose victim. The first way involved masters and mistresses. Eating entire groups of people as being acceptable for calling their choice was usually discriminatory based on ethnic cultural racial or religious grounds. Once a group was given opera status. Any member of it could be murdered without further question of this Miot wrote it is legitimate and indeed a satanic duty to call an individual or many individuals from such a group. In. The case of choosing individual obverse weren't part of a condemned group. Owen a members had developed tests to determine if target was sufficiently rotten. Such trial involved sending a female member to flirt with a male target. If he succumbed to her advances and ask for a date, then she would suggest time and place to meet preferably in a relatively deserted area. At the appointed time, she would approach the man ensuring that he saw her coming. Then right before she got to him to male ONA members would jump out of a car and attack her pretending to be muggers rapists. The targets reaction would determine whether or not. He passed the test if he ran to her rescue physically intervening and showing his bravery than he was safe however, if he fled or didn't help her, he proved himself a coward. However, the Owen often gave the potential opt for a second test to verify if his weakness warranted calling. It was only if he failed the second trial that he was deemed suitable for human sacrifice. And that point own a members could make one of three choices. They could simply kill the opt for disguising his death as a run of the mill accident or they could perform a ceremony called the death ritual. In this right Oh na, members use magic to place a fatal curse on the offer thus eventually ending his life despite the unlikeliness of this scenario Owen, a writings claimed that a journalist who was cursed in the nineteen seventies developed a terminal illness and died. The last way uppers were called based on what we can assume from documents was my forcing them to participate in the ceremony of recalling in these situations that chosen victim would be kidnapped made to stand in for the priest and then be ritualistically sacrificed. Culling served at least two main purposes for the O. N. A. I. It was a vital part of the sevenfold sinister way helping members connect with and learn to harness the causal realms evil? Energy. Second served as an essential function in the real world my eliminating weaklings. The ultimate question though is whether the O. N. A. Actually followed through with any of these teachings. The groups, many writings if the ceremony of recalling took place, there's no evidence that any real sacrifice ever occurred. Of course that didn't mean it didn't happen people disappear all the time. It's entirely possible that a long forgotten missing person case could be explained by an Owen a calling. Still went scholar Connell Monette interviewed several members for his. Book Mysticism in the twenty first century all of them insisted that they never carried out a human sacrifice ritual. However in personal correspondence with Monette Miot writing his Anton long contradicted that stating some traditional next John's known to me do practice ritualized culling some only every seventeen years or so and others called victims in their own individual non ritualized manner. What my it called a non ritualized manner might have been a different and more terrifying form of sacrifice. According, to Monette some Owen members joined the police or the military to carry out legalized killings as a form of calling the unworthy. Whatever the real truth is mastering. The Art of culling was a requirement for third stage of the sevenfold sinister way once that was achieved, the external adept was ready to graduate to the next stage and become an. Adept This fourth level typically lasted anywhere from five to eleven years it involves more intensive study into sorcery and self mastery. In addition at this stage, more extreme physical demands were required pushing the Owen a practitioner towards maximum levels of fitness. The. Internal adept was also required to spend at least one season in total isolation honing their connection to the interior world and showing their independence from society. After completing all the tasks of the fourth stage the internal adept became a master or mistress moving onto the fifth stage. At this level a master or mistress had to lead a chapter of the Owen. A guiding members along the sevenfold, way. They also allegedly used sorcery especially eon magic to summon dark forces from the Causal Realm to bring about societal change. Few people ever reached the fifth stage and even fewer moved beyond it. For that reason n a literature claimed that only one or two people per century reached the sixth stage that of the grand master or grand mistress. Own Publications don't give information about expectations at this level. However, from what we understand about the Croup, we can surmise that grant masters or mistresses were likely in charge of the entire organization. David Miot in says Anton long was probably considered a grandmaster however, not even he reached the final level of the sevenfold way. The last stage was called the path of the immortal since it's unlikely. Anyone ever reached it information about this level is scarce. However, the name seems to suggest that ONA practitioners who achieved this stage would become gods. This was the end game the longed for motive behind all the as mystical feats practitioners hope that their rituals, ceremonies and adherence to the Sevenfold Bay would help them pursue their goal of Aryan supremacy. According to David Miot every human age destiny driven by a unique kind of a causal energy. He believed a nazi-inspired society was the future of Western civilization. However, my it taught that forces which he called Nazarene or Meiji and energies sought to halt the rise of this. Satanic. Rain. In short miot preached that Judeo Christian beliefs, democracy humanism man capitalism threatened the ultimate satanic destiny of Western civilization. For that reason, he argued that the rise of Fascism in the nineteen thirties was a good thing stating Nazi Germany was an expression of satanic spirit. It was a burst of Loucif fury in light of Zest and power. Though Fascism was ultimately defeated might believed it opened a gateway to the a causal world allowing for the emergence of Satanic Power. He taught his followers that practitioners of the sevenfold sinister way could harness that power and by performing their rituals and sorcery miot preach that ONA members could magically usher in a new version of Hitler's Third Reich. According to Owen Literature, it was at this point that a messiah like figure called vendex would appear on earth. After, his arrival ve index would usher in a series long period of Aryan rule power and prestige that he called the imperium at the end of this era of prosperity and progress he would lead humanity of planet earth and help them to colonize the solar system. For the members of the order of nine angles, intergalactic domination represented the final and dramatic triumph of Evil Satanic. Virtue. However, as they waited for indexes arrival miot encouraged. Initiates to prepare for this final era by committing grievous crimes judging by the violence instigated by Owen extremis over the last decade members are taking miot suggestion very seriously indeed. Thanks again for tuning into secret societies, we'll be back on Thursday with part two where we'll continue our investigation of the order of nine angles examined the way some of the group's members have attempted to put their violent philosophy into practice. You can find all episodes of secret societies and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Not, only to spotify all ready have all of your favorite music. But now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like secret societies for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker. To Stream secret societies on spotify, just open the APP and type secret societies in the. Search. Bar. We'll see you next time. Hey listeners get to follow blind dating for a fun twist on a classic Setup Youtuber and host Terry Michelle can't wait to help hopeful singles, meet their match search, blind dating, and follow free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
Episode 909: Abomination: Devil Worship and Deception in the West Memphis Three Murders
"I want you to. Actually the background looks fine okay. I'm gonna work right actually. This is really works. Well oh yeah. It's amazing what you can do it out all right. So this child's moskowitz. Monday through friday twelve noon is when i usually do the thing alive on youtube and subscribing platforms Welcome to the program. I guess william ramsay is But signs william ramsay investigates Williams the author of abomination profit of evil and children of the beast. William thanks for joining me to be with you again. Thanks for having me okay. So let's just go right to give us a thumbnail on on the topic of your book. So title of the book is global. Death cult order of nine angles atom often slaughter the innocence. And it's about the growth of kind of a post cruelly posted Ideology that came out of the right wing to far right really of england and has now dispersed around the world so it's kinda end one of their central tenets really is about calling people they use the term cole and I think it's really one of the in my opinion. One of the central tenets of the group so the the the concept of calling people. It's kind of like what you might say grooming but murder. I mean i think that it's an incitement to kill people murder people. I think that if you read through the documents like if you read through my book they reference it in several places and as referenced a lot often in their in their documents and it's a fairly recent. The real growth of the order of nine angles really began in the eighties and it started with just very with manuscripts that were sent through the mail or po box pre internet and then manuscript the manuscript upon manchester grew it became booked and then codified additional books. And now i think there's might be ten thousand pages of information about this one group. I don't think it's a very big group speech. Estimated are guesstimates that it's really only a thousand or two thousand however. I think that they're very malevolent. In my opinion and they showed they showed up in the stuff. So adam often. Is this kind of right wing group in the last and the ideology some of those books that i i kind of go through chapter by chapter but some of those books are found in this group often. That's caused a lot of trouble. united states. now let's before we get into the actual membership and the nature of that. I just wanted to a little bit of background here and you say that it goes back to ellison crowley and his ot. Oh which was the order attempt. Orients them the Kind of the infiltrated masonic cult that he was involved in and that he brought to a more of satanic element And that you do tie that into the the nazis. I mean which emanated out of the secret society. The tuli vessel shops in europe. And just the kind of the occult what we do for mystically and broadly called the new age movement up so give us some background so we can then bring things up to date. How did this actual organization spied and who started so the central figure kind of denies that he's written most of his name's david miot. He was a number of right wing groups in in the uk in the united kingdom. I think that the group was national action But he came out of that but during his involvement in this kind of national socialism which really was british national socialism. At the same time he he maintained an interest in cultism. So you kind of see this parity but actually it Similar to nazism. So it's post hitler but they kind of learn from other in cruelly securely died at forty seven and so that they do reference locked. This guy he was in. David was in a the lubbock group. Which is kinda cruelly group. But he learned from that and kind of pushed the boundaries beyond that group. So he in my book. I it's really interesting. Had this series of letters out the satanic letters of stephen brown. Which i assume is by maya all the the word the a lot of the literature very similar. But he's in communication with the temple of seton and literally in contact with michael makino. So michael aquino was an offshoot of the templates. Satan started at template sets and they're communicating about what their version satanism is so you can kind of see this kind of growth and movement of the order wrangles away from cronyism and other groups temple say set satan. But have this nazism. It has kind of similar outlook where the other people are. Ultra mentioned they. Call them mundane. Maybe a little magical term but they kind of have new terminology. So it's a little bit. You have to kinda decipher it. Some these words but they definitely view on people but they have a long term goal of creating kind of an imperial and it may be synonymous with like a right but an imperium of kind of fascist imperium in the future. That's kind of what they're pushing. That's that would be their y'all ideological but they're they're very small but i think that that's really their pulled. But they have some unique doctrines. They tried to infiltrate other groups so they have something called an insight role and what that is to join a group and learn from it. So you'll see in some of these newer right wing groups national action. You'll see a cultist joining that right wing group and much like atom often battling out often and so you'll see that a cultism I think i can trace that Ideological idea from uk to the us to these other concurrent far right groups in the us and the uk and actually in the end in canada some other places. So that's why. I kinda got global idea because with the internet i think that these ideas have dispersed become more international after world war two and now with the internet and will be dark web even for the proliferation I just wonder against such a little bit on the background and saying that they are satanic and as artistic so it's not just embrace satanic principles but they actually are worshiping satan involve the satanic ritual satanic practices. That right that's correct. So they have their. I kind of have iconic go through the very beginnings of their book. They have to kind of main boats one is the black book of satan which talks about ritual so they have external and internal rituals external is like people together and then internal of rituals that you're supposed to do for themselves and the halos is kind of like a book that A lot of the manuscript that yes that would they would well. It gets complex because if you talked to somebody in the all our assumed they would deny it but literature tells a story. It's a secretive. Society is so short build than i deny membership altogether. And it's sometimes hard to talk about these things because they are secret but nevertheless there are things that are known as you say. They've published a book which you can get. You say that elyssa crowley is one of the sort of at least the ideological founders of this movement and that crowley would go on to influence you through the o. t. o. And other groups much of the kind of the counterculture of the nineteen sixties and heavy metal. There's an element in heavy metal rock. Not all some And that i would even trace it back to Lavar ski and the founding of the the Of the deal. The also be society new york seventies the religion of the united nations meditation. So this and then it's like you're talking about and into 'ideological or intellectual genealogy tracing back to office levy and bavasi through croly and then to. This group is probably considered a branch or offshoot. It's one way to look at it right and that does have clearly a racist and you know elementary. A bylaw originated with a darwin when he signed ties racism through the theory of evolution. Saying that there are some species than amaury ball than others and that this became almost a a cornerstone of much of the enlightened establishment up until world war two when it became fashionable after the holocaust. And then kind we. We emerged with your with julian and unesco so these ideas are not. They're not new and they've been around in the broad sense just at the edges of our our elite establishment. Both on the left hand on the right. But in this case william we're talking about a very simple calls that began to emerge after world war. Two now you say that. There are around today that the war international. They're in the united states. They're in canada. They've they've branched off from britain maybe in european countries. I don't know a turn. Is this made up. Who is in. I mean. I don't necessarily need to name names because i'll get kicked up you to who there's unknown. The total membership is unknown. But you can trace. I have a whole chapter so they called their groups. Instead of like a cell. I would analogize it to a cell of like an underground. They call it a next on n. e. x. Iowan and you can trace these groups through the internet and through their websites that they're in serbia. France england sweden canada. Us narrows a lot of these. Next ones of the temple of blood. And i think it's south carolina so there's like little tiny cells like almost Like offer some of these other underground groups maybe a communist but this would be a right-wing cell but with kind of like are re ordered national socialist ideal with the cultism. They have will. It's interesting they were more one more thing. So that founder was actually in the national social movement and he has signed copy or he had some kind of signature from auto roemer. If you remember. Otto remer was essential to hitler surviving. What's known as the balcony facination attempt. So he's connected. He knows mean. They these hang. He's hanging out in these post. Work groups Post world war two groups. And i think it's interesting because you see any of you the other you can see this influence of this idea but like you said the racism so in their doctrines they have the money. Danes they have homo hubris. They kind of look at other people with contempt and they have this idea of this. This nazi on which is little seedlings of their ideas ideologies through groups all over the world. So that's why. I titled the book global death cult. Because they do have an emphasis i think upon Yeah murder or killing a calling. They call like it's almost a A description of the ruling class. I mean the kind of the elitist internationalists types and just recently took over the us government. I don't wanna get too into that. Because i'll into channel i already lost my now makes you feel. Let's be careful when we go. We have a little bit euphemistically all right. So so this. This is having to do with This group nexium in new york state that was exposed and being years ago. You had wealthy suburban white women primarily involved with prostitution and and kind of field And all kinds of stuff news by the way that's new york times. It's not some conspiracy right. No that's keith. Neary so the nexium group. It soon similar to the name next john but i never made a connection of that however there are recent cases that are included my book. There was a guy by the name of william von new trajan. And some of these cases are very current. They haven't even gone to trial yet and some have just been. There was a guy sentenced on may fifth to forty two months who was involved in all kinds of bad things illegal things and they sent him. Joe is a federal case. The actually swatted the homeland security. Her name is kristen. Under trump kristen So the dow's wonders william bond new to jimmy canada. He went up to this old muslim guy in front of a mosque and slit his throat. So that's a recent case. He hasn't gone to trial yet but he was seen online doing all kinds of ordered nine angle ritual. So there's a direct connection there. There was also this of passage for them. It's kind of. It's like in the moscow. They talked about the made man. You know if anyone seemed godfather to you know that michael juliani became a made man when he shot Those those guys around the table and then he fled sicily to cool off for a few years but This in this case it's a ritual. That goes back to the The assassins the original shishen in medieval Iran with would literally plucked some young guy out of a club or something. and they bring them to the fabulous palace. Where he'd be able to indulge all of his excesses fantasies and then they would say you can have this reverence nor to become a part of the secret club. You have to kill somebody and he has. Who and then you would basically by doing so you would become the spirit the spirit. Nc bodies on me man. You're getting that's a great point because it's very similar to eliminate ideology if you read it but the aloes that nothing is true. Everything is permitted was their idea. That's like they took him to literal paradise. Paradise was those square thing volvo. The temple of earthly delights. Any connection between a few years ago. I interviewed and author. I forget the name of the book now. But it was about son of sam and he looked that up by interviewing the sun and sand imprison stave and Are more terry yalta medieval. Yes and Amazing story and he. Sam testified that he was connected to a sabbatical that still around and that they have certain telltale signs in terms of certain types of repeating that pops up in the city and that they are still involved with ritual murders around the country now does does your group have any connections very kind of in a very tangible. There was one person who is a big admire of the process. Church a final judgment his in this kind of modern. This is very recent like this year last year. So they kind. It seemed like they know about the process church. And that's who berkowitz you mentioned in tape recorded tape. Because i've heard talk about the process but his specific thing was thick the twenty two sons of hell or sam but the documentary. That just came out. Sons sam on. Netflix is very interesting. And they actually take the position that there's more people involved in those murders than by And just berkowitz and also dire. Who's a regular guest of mining. Ziada vessel tarik hollywood. He talks about. He makes a connection between most of these mass murderers. You know bundy and And you know these other guys and And satanic ritual and possible connections of satanic cults That there's an element of that there as well. Yeah that goes back to like Dave mcgowan the politics zero murder when they had on the cover of his book. That's anti graham carved into somebody's chest. It's brutal but Yeah so. I think that there's more of that i think jay probably right. I mean i think he you know there's a lot more of this a cultism. It's not fashionable to attach cultism to murder and part of the country. The landing reported the fbi. But i think that also a lot of these people who are maybe involved in that kind of stuff. Do not want that truth to become out. So i think that's a lot about this loaded term satanic panic as well. Was that a lot of the people who are spouting panic are ended the call so they're trying to kind of A visit also makes me. Think about the cuban on theory. Now i'm not a fan of the cunanan because we don't know who offered it's an anonymous thing. It's kind of like in ten years ago you had anonymous will the The mask guy fawkes. So you didn't no one's behind that. And when i don't know who's behind something i can't trust it a you don't know what's going on. However there seems to be some grains of truth in the single aspect of their claim that the international elite or an element of it in government business entertainment media academia in various areas are involved in both satanic practices and pedophilia. Do you have any connection with that. This group is far as i could get the research. All i really do is read the documents and density. What's online but one could what. I could ascertain that. It was really a very secretive group with very underground credentials that has surfaced very recently and become much more the ideal. All allergy is becoming much more acquainted with people who were like charlotte smell and some of these other characters. But i didn't really see it as an elite maybe it is in the league sensibility. Tiki tiki to a truck. Stop replacement the answer. Synthetic thing correct and they would call their idea. Is they have the way it's written and it's in my book. Is they have contempt for the nas- what they call the nazarene 's in the world worldview which i think would be a judeo christian. Their the judeo christian antipathy would be one of our. How our describe not only anti semitic but they're also christian correct very much so and very much into some kind of pagan age. Yeah i would say. Their outlook is really pagan. I think it's a very pagan outlook. And and you kind of see the same thing so it kind of overlaps with some of the have you heard of george lincoln rockwell is the head of the american nazi party so it comes out through the guy by the name of george mason. He wrote a book called siege. Where that's also very strong anti-christian animus of these guys william pierce. Also so you see this. It's done yeah crack. So then it's a mix of this the nixon but it some of that stuff. That comes from the organized order of nine angles has suffused some of the new nazi movement. In these guys are liberal social media post were. These guys are holding up the sinister tradition which is order manning's book so they're clearly affiliate and it's there's a lot of people who were seeing so i think it's a new kind of twist on the national socialism. It's it's post hitler something new. That's sounds like that. National socialism was kind coached itself in sioux in like a pseudo science claiming be scientific fact it was anti religion. God certainly anti judaism christianity or they were trying to christianity. Judaism was the head of the snake and they've felt that Getting rid of you know that would eventually purge europe of this could 'judaizing influence which is how they view christianity. And that they wanted they had this utopian idea that they could create this new kind of human beings uber mench. I mean that's how well over one that's such a great point charles. Because that's the way the order of nine angles sees its influence on. Its followers is. They are creating a new type of human being how you call in the army. I went fluential. Are they any no. I don't i don't think that they're really political intellectual. I couldn't see it. But i do think that they have an impact on i think they're criminally minded. I think that if you if you re talking to somebody's ideology whether they're christian jew muslim or anything. How intense our that is that person absorbing like maybe in christianity would be like a super right wing or a very conservative jew or a certain type of muslim beers. But if you were very serious about the ona you would definitely be a different type. I think that it would shape you to completely different type of person. Then i mean the removed the idea of a creator of the universe and everything is like it's in a way it's more similar than communism than that. He believes that they can create this berkeley ant colony. Where everybody's deepak. oh equal. Except in their case. With which was where communism. And nazism dipper for the nazis. It was more of a biological elite. A group of people evolved into a superior species mench who would then you know benevolently Decide who gets to live and die in the rest of the world for the good man right. That's very similar to the outlook various. There's if you had the misfortune of reading a lot of their material and if you absorb it they have that debt over arching were superior we're gonna make decisions on it abolution basis for who lives in dies much like the nazis. If not the exact same thing yeah and and but with these are not just a bunch of nut cake you know you know people that you lift iraq up somewhere and find. I mean these are people that are around me. This group that has inside influence in pasta. It's secretive so we don't know who who might be involved possibly at high levels of influence not necessarily in the government but in the culture and business. Even in your church or synagogue. I mean it's a really good point because that's the infiltration elements of these etiologies. Could be anybody. They end within the native different terms and terminology. And it's almost like a software. Somebody could pick up. I consider it a very malevolent software. But you're right. It could be somebody who is in high tech or something finds this ideology like. Hey that's me and all they need to do is really fine. One in ten thousand people want and fifty thousand people in the world. And that's you know we. They're doing like scouting to Find a certain type of person that might be might the male you boats of this thing so like a lot of do i mean. They get tested broaden their ask questions and they're kind of like a winnowing process. We'd in chapel hill. So i think if you look at the group. I think that's very standard. Even like processors on judgment the process church was much more complex than people. Think that all these grades and there's an internet or order very similar to atom wafa which supposedly disbanded it had an inter- inner and outer order. Now was something that grew out of the internet too. So there's a very strong influence from this internet. Dark web in these and in our moffitt. Were there sophisticated. They know how to use the dark web lee. Some of the group does so are kind of wrote this book like. Hey yes this is. Something that has to be people's radar. This is dangerous dangerous dangerous. What can we Pick up as signs that someone might be involved in this sort of thing. I mean what are some of the manifestation all the symbols like you could see the symbol all my book cover i would say the manifestation is they have this kind of sinister tribes. The word sinister is used often in this groups but like groups of people do and everything that they do often takes place at night so they're almost like nine hundred dollars and they use this word knocked to leaner knock tulips. Which is a backs. So you'll see the symbol of a bat often used inscription that kind of differentiates it from. What is the traditional understanding of nazism as is like they have a very different. So you gotta watch out for these symbols and the different word usages. Like next john and different terms have. It's really for me. It was like an introduction to underground literature. And that's really what this really came out of was small manuscripts of people riding sharing in small groups. So it's hard. I wish i could give you a good answer to like have something to look out for but they have a certain outlook in in temperament was really scary. Is some of the members. Look very like just look like normal average people's lives that there's a couple of good articles out. There are people who have studied the owen. A i don't wanna mention some the journalists names but some people interviewed them. You can find them online but they seem to be like something happened in the last year or so. They put on people's radar. Because one more name. I wanted to mention was meltzer. He was a military guy who was in contact with was trying to set up his military unit in turkey. He was out of base in italy but he still. He hasn't even been sentenced yet. So meltzer is another owen. A who's involved. And he said he was going to betray his own units To to the feds. So so then. Perhaps i don i mean that's open another can of worms here but perhaps they might have some infiltration into the military. No doubt i think they're definitely trying so like i talked about earlier. They have this idea of insight roles where you're going to do something to get experience and if you look at some of these groups they're trying to a lot of these guys. Have this own literature. Are they become on. And then they tried to get experienced in the national guard or or something like that. So i've seen that a non were there. They're getting the literature and then joining the military not being in the military and then getting so leading the correct. That's what it seems to me from my perspective. So i do think. And i think that the government's wisely is the use the term white supremacist. There was actually an article that came out last year. That specifically stated owen. They they call it an rv. Mba racially motivated. I can't remember the acronym but it was like a racially motivated group. They didn't quite get all of the internal details. I think are important when analyzing the overnight but they understood that it was a threat. I think it's i think it's a very valid threat. I think the government the massad homeland security. Fbi really should get up to speed on this. This group. I think they're very very dangerous. And the other is literally are white supremacists. I mean they do horrified the white race and they wanna have a white nation and seems mean is up the case it seems like that was from the inception. That's what happened but it seems like they've lowered their their their views from like. There's asians in there. The different people different cultures now. serbs alike different ethnicities. Maybe within the white serbia has since with other goods. It's like the Certain white you know groups in the nineteen sixties formed alliances with radical black groups that kind of thing or i suppose in the broad sense the nazis formalizing the japanese eleven they get like minded groups of bait kind of cross-pollinate wig but again it seems like it i like there's are there like a cropped up in russia last year there. A church burning or one of the kids had copies of this literature. So i mean it's hard to say just specifically i. Yeah i think that they're they're really not statistic but not as an that idea to expose the group identify them and really go. After the group that actually are white supremacists rather than this kind of broad indictment being conducted by the establishment. That anybody who's not on the liberal side of the political spectrum is a white supremacist. Anybody associated with president. President trump is a white supremacist. I in oxen is the term nazi. Oh misapplied not believe me. I can attest to that. I mean you have that thrown around all the time and and in a way. It's it's basically giving a pass to the genuine actual nazis and white supremacists. That are out there that we know. Very little about and of william. Your book does lots of china light on that. That's very important. Thank so people need an also. I actually for the kids about the original item often members. They to people who were in this group ended up dying very young. They got involved. There's like these. Young kids are very impressionable. Fourteen fifteen sixteen year olds or online message boards four chan and they get seduced by this evil ideology that they think in the society. Right now so chaotic i. I have sympathy but also sympathy for the parents. Like you gotta really watch out what your kids are doing. This is terrible. National socialism is terrible ideology. So is the way. And you don't want that in your family. 'cause that's what i call the slaughter of innocents like there was two parents. Were like this one kid is named as giampa near like he's dating their daughter and you can't hang out with this guy who's affiliated with adam often in. Gop shot the two parents to dust. So that's like they were innocent. Parents who had very serious concerns ended up dead in virginia. I think two years ago and out was a terrible but you got really be careful about who. You're dating your kids if you boys so i think it's these are terrible ideology national socialism master. So it's a criminal conspiracy. I mean it's it should be approached as in that way no different than any other criminal gangs involved with murder and legal activities and promoting And I would think this should be more than just on the radar screen of our of our law enforcement and we should get it up on the radar screen of everyone. Well i think they have an incitement to murder. I really do that. Is there kind of view. And i think that that from a legal perspective very serious so i really do think that the people who are in national security really all over the world i mean. You really should be very concerned about this. I know that. I came on a russian so it has worldwide reach. It has a structure similar to mason knock them condemning masonry here. Because i'm not but you know like the out of order go and then you go into the inner portico and then the further and the people in the outer portico don't really know what they're doing what thinking about in the they're just You know they're they're kind of involved because it seems kind of fun you know. It's sort of like it comes in. And they answer all the great deep questions of existence and everybody gets sits around in tasma has like a bonfire the you know but the winning and conscience inner circle. That's something we don't know who they are. But that's where you have a you know the power. Well here's an interesting element. Is that this guy. Miot was in league giggled through different iterations at these groups get shut down restart in england. It was the national socialist movement but there was a guy called the nail bombers. Name's david copeland three bombs in london. And there's gonna be documentary on necklace within the next couple months about this case but he was associated with the national socialists and he like people lost their arms legs. There was a baby who had a two inch nail in their head so awful things come out of this and really got to be aware. That was an and in my book. I show david my being interviewed by you. Know some people in the uk who are really. There's a hope not aid is a group that kind of has been following this as well so there's other journalists clearly been looking into it i would say i look at it more cold thing but yeah no. It's not really not good i. I'm surprised the government hasn't really done more lawrence. Will that in itself is a question. But it's pretty ugly. So william tech elect my listeners and viewers know where they can get your very important book and information about you and your work of so you can buy signed copies. I think the best is really the book. Form of the book. Not a kindle because of formatting in i i do like to put pictures in there so people can kind of see names faces and things like that. So that's at my website. William ramsay investigates. I'll send you a signed copy but you can also get the book on amazon kindle version for all right and i'll put a link to it on the show and You know let's stay in touch. I want to touch base with you. After i read it and and more programming is a very important issue. We need to bring light on our. I william thank you so much for joining me. Charles grigsby with you. Thanks so much. All right take care.
The Third Corey - 183
"Fred stood out you heretic. I'm dan i'm doug and this is your users guide to life on the outside yes sir. Leaving religion is the first step into a larger better world of abuts. it can also be a scary world things differently. Now never fear. That's why we're here. We're your audio and with help from good friends and experts all sorts of fields. We're gonna share the stories and seek the knowledge to build a great life after all. You only get the one that we know so you better making gentlemen. Hello hello hello. How are you hope. I'll just just so so good. Good i i am reaching out to you from my 'isolation my solitary in tower in toronto in it's wonderful by that's right i look at this. I can actually leave the room that i'm in. I unlike you cannot under under federal mandates soon enough soon enough anyway. What a show despite us being a divided by border we are not divided by anything else. I don't know what that means. But today i am going to talk about some very scary geometry. I however am going to talk about a cool guy in a really really stupid book. The accidental hero of a book. Right exactly yeah. And then i am going to take on the anti vaccine movement a they exist so quick note. We realized that we all had so much great information this week. We're running really long so to any patrons who jumped in this past week and i know we have. We haven't i know we have to. We want to beg your indulgence to push that off till next week and we will give you all the love then but we just wanna keep the show under twelve hours today. So yeah if everybody's cool with that. Let's do it uncle dan. Well hello You know when. I when i was younger and i was in elementary school. Think maybe junior high school. I read the quote by lincoln about better angles of our of our character and i never heard it spoken out loud so for several years i was left trying to figure out what exactly that meant. You got the wind. You got the one under your arm and then the elbow one just assume that whatever angle you have you wanna make sure it's a right one. Yeah he was very into ninety degrees. But i think oncle marquez. Some something to talk about the not so great angles. He's are not the great angles. These are not the better angels of our nature. Let me tell you so you know we try to have some fun on this. Show guys we. We try to laugh at the absurd and silly every chance we get. That's great but sometimes when you sit out to make a podcast about the comedic side of cults and craziness the colts and craziness outweighs the comedy just a little bit and while there is some funny stuff about today's very peculiar subject. There is some very very not funny stuff about it as well. So let's laugh and then let's talk for a while Content warning there are references to sexual violence and sexual violence against children in this segment. Help me if this is another anthill thing. I am leaving the podcast. It feels like it's gonna go that way but it doesn't go all the way there. So hey yeah so. It's not graphic descriptions like it was with the hill kids just a mention of it so but it's kind of impossible to tell the story without it so be warned so we've talked before on the show about the satanic panic that not really over nationwide hysteria of the nineteen eighties and nineties. That drove this city at country. Well that one. I'm not there at the moment. I'm in canada. Out of its uptight. Mind and saw masses of false accusations arrests imprisonments and other assorted bullshit for a primer on. Please refer back to episode twenty three well sort of satanists that actually rape kidnap and murder people at random that were the shadowy villains for this decades long long. Cultural nightmare didn't really exist but a pin that for just a minute. The sweetness that were around were mostly adherence and imitators of the church of satan. The brainchild of the hard to take seriously anton levay the church of saint was really instill as just another expression of sixties counterculture and Rejection of the stuffy conservative stifling american culture that preceded it The church of satan is mostly a hedonistic movement of pure individuality inspired by among others. The works of ayn rand you can listen to doug segment on her. What a wonderful person. She wasn't episode ninety and while many accused them of being kind sexist and pricks online. They aren't kidnapping anyone's babies for human sacrifices in the forest. That's not who they are right and more recently. Of course most people will be familiar with the satanic temple featured in last year's wonderful documentary hail satan and co founded by lucian greaves whom we spoke to an episode sixteen loosen in the satanic temple are the farthest thing from the murderous cannibals haunting the long dark american night of the nineteen eighty s. They are in fact. Merry pranksters and first amendment heroes haunting southern and square state legislatures with their truck mounted bathroom at statue trying to fend off the worst accesses of creeping christian nationalism child-murdering bad guys. They are certainly not that we know about that. We lucian. you've been served your on blast. Keep it tight lucien. they They they've used our -rageous religion prison religious presumptions in this country as an act of judo. Against those who ceaselessly abuse it so well played the satanic temple. Well remember when. I said those be movies satanic warlocks who kill and rape at random didn't exist. Well it turns out they kind of do and just to give the devils lily. Aren't madly violent. Nazis isn't that fun guys get. You had me at ardent madly violent nazi. So today we pay a visit to the satanic that could cause that should cause some panics. The order of nine angles or the oh nine a. If you're nasty. The order of nine angles is a pretty weird little outfit for a variety of reasons. The semi mysterious people that have authored. It's literatures literature and occasionally spoken for it have purposely surrounded it in loads of mystery and autobiographical legend alleged to have been founded in the late sixties by an unnamed woman in the west of england when she brought together three separate satanic temples and covens in the early seventies. a man who called himself anton long joined and in short order had risen through. Its ranks. those being neophyte initiate external adapt internal adept master grandmaster and immortal to become its master longhand wrote thousands of pages laying out the philosophy and magical with a k. practices defining the order as a highly secretive left hand path practice to reach the gods of the a causal room. It's a morpheus anarchistic and totally decentralized they follow what's called the path matthaus the path of suffering to come to know themselves to become masters of the causal realm and eventually masters of the aac causal realm as. Well i shall explain below. It wasn't really until the nineteen eighties. The oh nine. A really even made itself known by publishing articles in already existing occultist. And far right nationalist magazines it also began distributing its founding scriptures most notably the black book of satan and its own magazine ferrier named for the fierce wolf of norse mythology much of the literature was written by anton long and an artist and musician who went by christos beast but has been identified as richard moult. I should also also note that. Most scholars and journalists who studied nine a far more than i have identify anton long as very fascinating and peculiar man whose real name is david miot some disagree including my it himself who vehemently denies any association with the oh nine a going so far as to challenge journalist who said he was to a duel with the nazi dagger. Sound like something someone from the. Oh nine eight i mean. That's just he protested to little but the preponderance of evidence seems to support. It is in fact my it. But we'll call him anton long for for the most part in here Unlike the church of satan or the satanic temple the order of nine angles very much believe in the theistic evil satan and with him pantheon of so-called dark dodds including a sinisterly female version of baffled. Matt who in their version looks very much like the hindu god of destruction kali Who will bring about a violent revolution that allows for a new system of racially superior tribal warlord governments called the imperium and that golden age of hellish violence and total destruction of the former magin nazarene as they call it basically their term for judeo-christian of the magic nazarene order that has enfeebled and poisoned the natural violence of the human spirit preventing ascendancy to uber manche. And then in this mad max. Version of the future will set out to conquer and colonize. The galaxy led by the dark lord. The dark. god vindicates into a neo-pagan hitlerian interstellar satanic eternity. You had vendex. Where do i sign. That was a that was quite a sentence. A lot Yeah i was trying to distill it down to the the essence. And i think i got there so i think so. I didn't understand any of what you said. But i think you nailed it so the oneida believes there have been five aons of men each one lasting around two thousand years the primal the hyper boren for some more. Wholesome nazi content. Check out our segment on hyper-area episode one forty eight the sumerian the hellenistic and the current one. The western each ends and a few hundred years of increased authoritarianism and militarism and this a owns period of dictatorship they predict will begin sometime between nineteen ninety and two thousand eleven and will ask them tell twenty three ninety so any minute ten years ago now right at that point will You know up until this year. It seems like they kind of had a guy you know he figures very very prominently with a lot of these neo nazi satanic people like trump really. They saw as the guy which should come as no surprise. So at that point we'll we'll commence the sixth grade age. The a on a fire their own new satanic timescale begins in the year eighteen eighty nine. The birth year of middling watercolor colorist turned eager. European real estate tycoon adolf hitler. They have praised hitler's reich. As quote a practical expression of satanic spirit. a burst of lusa therrien lights obssessed in power in an otherwise nazarene pacified. Boring world. boy. I never thought i would hear the word zesty applied to the third reich. Yeah citrusy also nazarene being used like i'd or whatever is an interesting phrasing nazarene bay just weakened us it made us all feeble and weirdly for jew hyper violent racists. They are adamant in their holocaust. Denial saying it was a myth constructed by the magin nazarene world order to denigrate the nazis and therefore discredit them. It's so weird to me. How some of the most rabid neo nazis who foment for another holocaust feel the need to deny the actual one. Yeah no it's so crazy. So people in occult circles used to joke about the The order of nine angles of night angles as the order of no members Which is funny and true because they may be had a dozen members for a decade or more. Some people think as few as five but this gets to part of what is so different about them. They weren't really looking for any not in the normal cult since they flew almost entirely under the radar other than then my it slash anton long. They really have no leader pretty much. All their literature is available for free. They don't want money they don't want to meet you. They may be the most uncut like called. I've ever study so remember when we had my friend former Undercover fbi agent. Greg rogers on the show in episode one fifty four when dan talked to him about operation underground railroad and all the bullshit around human trafficking myths. We remember our secret. Asian man well in his career at the bureau. One of his beats was taken down. American neo nazis and he took down a lot of them And i asked him how he could keep doing it again. And again and they never got wise to it. He said it was because a they were fucking stupid and be. They were so preoccupied with taking power over whatever small group they were in so bitterly hateful of all the other groups and so consumed with infighting. They never thought to make a website where they could post all the pictures of the fed's that we're taking them down right right. i just. I couldn't believe they weren't comparing notes. Said they hate each other. The order the order of nine angles seems totally immune to any of that. There's no leadership to usurp. There's no money to embezzle. there's no power to be had by taking control called death. Ribs are just boring not boring. that's for sure cold. Expert steve. Hassen says the motivation behind cults is always some combination of money sex and power right but none of that really exists here it. It's really kind of a free open source radical ideology concocted by true believers and just left out on the dusky edge of society's view for anyone to find fucking hiep's according to china's own faq page on their ancient wordpress website. I i did promise a little bit of comedy her when when when one finds their literature one should do what they want with it if they want to become a member. They don't really have membership so they wanna become associated grape That's what they call them. People who are connected to them are just associates right right It's like gig satanism. But you're you're free to interpret it your own way or even start your own temple. Notice nexen on or not. It's up to you right and when you do that. There's no fees there's that you don't have to buy anything. It's very strange. So should you decide to actually live by the groups of what they call sevenfold. Who initiates you. Well you do dummy. And it's rather fucking tents one of the easiest. Initiation rituals is finding a secluded wild spot and laying there for an entire night without sleeping or even moving okay. Most people could probably do that. Another is to live into wilderness with zero contact with anyone with anyone else for six months the ritual of the. Yeah i have the rich. We've all seen the show alone. I don't think it's going to happen for most people at right. The ritual of the abyss has one living totally alone again this time in the depths of a cave for a month another. You're finding these caves i. There's they're they're they're here about Another is to walk alone over rough terrain covering three hundred miles in just fifteen days twenty miles a day. Which is that's dirty substantial for two weeks all this. Do you get your nazi merit badge. Well here's the other thing that's really fascinating about it. It's nobody checks funds. They have this dedication to this radical self honesty. And you've if you didn't if you didn't do it you know you failed and that's enough right. It's really fascinating. So this is some next level commitment and all you have to do to become a moment. This have the bad luck of turning eight and casserole country right right so it gets. It gets even more intense. Once you've passed those hermetic mind breaking tests. You're ready for what they call an insight role that means doing something so outside any experience you've ever had or joining a group never would have considered for at least six and up to eighteen months. It could be joining the police or the military traveling around the world on foot without dollar begging and stealing to do it joining isis seriously. You know normal gap here kind of things. Yeah this sounds. A lot. Like batman begins like a little bit does. It's like this evil kind of samurai coda right this. It's it's very. It's highly disciplined also not learning to make a lot of sense that they had no members that that part starting to make way more sense to me very few people can can pass these crucibles right or would want to or want to but some do so getting comfortable with violence and weapons training ceteris pretty normal neo nazi fair but specifically for the order of nine angles it serves a purpose called calling specifically calling of offers which is the german word for victims part of the rite of passage in self development for someone following the nine oneida paths is ritually ridding the species of unworthy garbage. This is literally part of their doctrine as laid out in several publications including a guide to human sacrifice calling a guide to sacrifice part to and victims a sinister expose and guidelines for testing of offers. You see these guys aren't just nihilist. Say what you will about the tenants of national socialism dude. At least it's an ethos right an opt for must quote self. Select what they don't. They don't know that they're being tested. But they are being watched and when an up for is called not only. Is the species less filthy but it meant like in many cannibal cultures. The murderer inherits the life force of the victim bringing them closer to being the adila uber match. The uber rich. This is not okay. Nothing nothing that's happening is is okay. No and it doesn't get better and more than a few targeted uppers have indeed been cold meaning fucking murdered by order of nine angles. Initiates more on that tick in preparation for the segment. I read many articles than one very interesting one just on neo-fascist generally in the online journal belling cat dot com by robert evans. He as an excellent quote here that could apply to so many of the segments. We do about this stuff. I should note that one of the more frustrating elements about covering the fastest right. Is that much of what they say. Sounds ridiculous and makes them appear less than serious. This is why it is important to remember that these groups have a body count and represent a real threat. There absurdity does not negate their danger and there is some silly shit about the order of nine angles. Like the fact they can't or won't get their story straight about how they got their name or that one of their most important rituals is a board game called the game of stars. They they think of it as something like the lament cube from hellraiser like a puzzle that opens up the membrane between the causal world and the acosta world Where the dark gods live. But you laugh if you see it. Because it's exactly spock's multilevel chessboard from the old star trek series right silly but these people are deadly fucking serious bright. The goal of china is chaos. Pandemonium rape murder criminality and the total implosion of the magin nazarene order to bring about the anna fire to quote from an official oh nine. Publication to acts of assault are most commonly recommended lynching and sexual assault. Jesus they ardently encourage rape as terrorism. They are also one hundred percent pro. Violent pedophilia again as a vehicle. Not only for terror and chaos but in assertion of the superior will of nine a associate to dominate the weak and the useless god. Yeah we can the useless meaning children children. Of course they are. I mean they are weak and useless in another publication. It says children must never be cold. So they they have guys ethics. They don't know they just believe they can be raped will Week so the founder of the main us us order of nine angles. next a called. The temple of blood of his lovie is a guy. Guy named joshua caleb sutter who was a real peach in addition to fashioning himself as a hyper pro north korean propagandist among a few other daffyd he was actually contacted by north korean intelligence and they were working with him and at some point they decided his just fucked in the head tweet. The north koreans are like nope can't do business with this guy among a few other daffy things he wrote a bit of ona a nine hundred nazi fanfest called iron gates. It's horrific both in envision and grammar suffices suffice it to say it paints a sloppy but nightmarish. John mcnaughton style portrait of the future. The order of nine angles wishes to foment mass murder of the intervention and endless days of child rape and torture in service of the triumph of mediocre white men. This salacious future has become an inspiration to the violent neo. Fascist paramilitary the atom waffen division whose rallying cry is iron gates. Now right so that's the future. They want horrific of course stupid without question but it has ignited the passions of more than a few hyper-violent motherfuckers everywhere. Here in america we have a lot of violent neo nazi movements. Most like my friend. Greg said are fucking idiots. Who are more likely to blow their own brains out by mistake than they are to hurt anyone else but some are not just. Here's your some of the crimes and on long's ona. Eight nine tax inspired david david copeland to play several nail bombs around the areas in london frequented by gay and immigrant communities in nineteen ninety. Nine nailbombs killed three people and injured a hundred and forty others. The british anti fast fascist group hope not hate records at least six oneida associates being prosecuted for terrorism. Twenty twenty alone here in toronto and associate of the order quote cold to south asian men who had nothing to do with anything by stabbing them in the throats in the states. Order devotee jared. William smith and army specialist was charged with leaking classified material on high explosives and weapons of mass destruction in order to kill federal agents for quote the glory of his neck religion another. Us soldier ethan. Meltzer stationed at. Us based in italy passed on information to help oneida members and an affiliated group called the rape waffen division. Who are exactly as they sound. God to ambush and kill as many of his fellow soldiers as possible. Luckily the plow stopped. He's facing life in prison of his arrest. Exposed other order associates within the military including one station in kuwait and one of the national guard who intended to use his presence at the george floyd protests last summer to start a satanic racial holy war by crazy piece of luck. He was apprehended before he can start shooting. He was also a member of the Oneida affiliated rape waffen division. That i mentioned a terror group hell bent on using rape as a weapon there. Several more known cases of murder and attempt and attempted murder and terrorism connected to the order of nine angles and groups. They have major influence over like the atom waffen division national action the sonnen craig division and the nordic resistance movement now as the order is declared not only pro human sacrifice pro rape and pro sexual violence directed at children. You may have correctly surmised that when one of the oh nine a is run to ground by the authorities. They are very likely to be in possession of a lot of images of child pornography and child rape no need to dwell any further on that but it seems to be standard equipment for apprehended associates including a teenager. Who is the youngest person ever charged with terrorism in the uk. I think he was fifteen. So what of their semi leadership. Richard moult aka christos beast went underground for several years and seems to have denounced the group. He was living as a catholic. In a rural part of england. And it wasn't until he resurfaced as a fairly prominent of folk musician. His past was rediscovered by his bandmates. Who kicked him to the curb. Although having sworn off his past he seems once again to be active in the order. And what about david. Miot aka anton long very likely the actual originator of the order as i mentioned at the top. He's a fascinating figure. In addition to kicking the lid off this nightmare. He's a classical. Greek scholar has lived all over. the world. lived for a time as both a christian and buddhist monk And in the two thousands converted to islam moved to the middle east and in fluent arabic became the west most ardent spokesperson for an advocate of osama bin laden and called for total jihad against the decadent magin nazarene order of the west. He's lived a hell of life guys. I was gonna say that. Sounds like three lifetime three completely mistrial lifetimes. But he's a horrible human being but he's also incredibly fascinating He spent ten years doing this before. Renouncing islam and moving home to rural england as well where he apparently still lives and perhaps still quietly guides the order of nine angles from his keyboard. Many people think his time in islam was just another of his many insight roles infiltrate infiltrating a group in order to raise one's awareness and possibly destroyed from within. This may also have been the motivation for richard mulched renunciation of the order his conversion to catholicism and his time in the folksy but in either case these men seem to be still at large now in their later years and despite having unleashed a methodology for very disturbed disordered minds everywhere to become the worst versions of themselves. They seem unbel- unmolested by the police which is baffling to me. Well except that the what four members there are are all in the police. Now they well. That's the thing is. They think that there's different levels of association with the order. And you kind of choose and they see they have names. There's artists who can be associated with it. There's street gangs there's Individual black black magicians can have different associations with it and they are. There's a lot of worry about how infiltrated they are into the military and police forces in the united states canada germany. Least so they're the best estimates that these anti fascist groups make is. There might be two thousand of them in the world but that seems like a couple thousand too many. Yeah most definitely so. It's a really fascinating horrible. Evil truly truly evil but very fascinating group of people right and i've never heard of them. Never got all all american law enforcement has only recently become even aware of them while they stay have managed to keep themselves in the shadow so successfully and and you know what what one of the journalists i read was talking about is they. Don't you if you come across an order of nine angles member. He's not gonna tell you right. It's a secret orders rule of fight club. Not the sloppy s. Stupid skinheads right there. There are a whole different level of discipline does not proud boys so really fascinating. But how about that raged. I'll i'm gonna sleep. Great tonight fantastic. Thanks for that. And let's move on doc if well you're a little younger than me but if you're like me you know kid kid of the child of the eighties right. I grew up with. I'd grew up with the the youth pop culture. What i was allowed to see as a young mormon which wasn't a lot like the goebbert's and he sh- he man you know yeah. Gi joe but you know what was a huge. What was a huge thing in in movies and culture at the time was the corey's right You had corey haim corey feldman they. They were writer died together. Right those two little cuties and they were just the lost boys and probably other movies. Yeah i can't remember but it was all about the corey's i remember corey wasn't in the goonies sure was that was sean asks to no no. I think they're the same person. Okay all right fair enough. Four heyman shan weiss ganz edges the same person. Yeah so anyway. I don't know if did did you enjoy the corey's daniela. Well not as much as you did. But i probably i mean you know. Only one of them made it this far and we're and the truth is while one of them did die. I don't know which one of them actually made it this far. I don't know if corey feldman who who lived. I don't know if he's the one that we can say made it because he's distance. Yeah anyway look. I am going to talk about a corey To but before we get there I wanted to talk a little bit about something. I i recently watched and i think i think you guys may have watched at least some of this too I watched as much as i was able to stomach of a debate. It took place a few weeks ago on zoom and pitted friend of the show and full attorney andrew seidel against christian gas bag and kim adventure movie bad guy. Tom trento closing statement which was beautiful extraordinary job with that. Yeah throughout the whole thing. Andrew was clear and incisive and fair in his treatment of the subject where trento unfortunately league couldn't even see or hear andrew And instead was having a totally different debate with the ender shaped straw man that he had set up next to his webcam which is that he completely ignored the reality of the person. He was debating and just plowed forward with a plan. He had crafted ahead of time. That plan had nothing to do with the extendable topic of the debate nor did he address or even acknowledge anything that the good mr seidel had said after a while the whole thing descended into chaos with trento trying desperately to trap andrew with multiple choice questions that didn't include the correct answers and throwing tantrums when he wouldn't just choose one of the options and shut up. Well how is it going to win a debate right. Exactly i wouldn't bother watching the whole thing If i were any of you though as uncle mark says andrews opening and closing speeches both knock it out of the park. So he's so he's so brilliant and and decent. Yeah and and easy on the eyes to a handsome music if you like those clean cut types. The reason i bring this up is because it is the latest for me in a very long line of moments where a believer has decided that the atheist that they've constructed in their mind is obviously far more honest and real than anything an actual atheist might say so they just ignore the real people that are right in front of them and valiantly goes to battle against the straw man army of their imaginations. They applaud each other as they bravely. Scare as bravely sleighs scarecrow after scarecrow never bothering themselves with the distant sounds of real honest arguments. Meanwhile we nonbelievers sit on our park benches watching the whole live action role play as they stabbed their dull prop swords into dummies with our name scrawled on them and then they go off to regale their churches with the noble story of their righteous victory over the savage heathens. It's a tales oldest time. And today i'm gonna prove that. I'm going to talk about an og straw man that goes back more than two thousand years. But only if you actually believe what. Mormons believe otherwise it goes back two hundred years. Because that's why. And joseph smith fabricated a pretend ancient record of jews in the americas for today's lesson. We're going to talk about one of the great characters in the book of mormon not that there's much competition corridor so core hor comes to us and leaves us in a single chapter of the book of alma for anyone stupid enough to have attempted to have read the book of mormon all the way through. You know that alma which is book. Nine of fifteen is the one where you finally lose the will to live completely Coming in at sixty three chapters. It's almost twice as long as any of the other books are boy. Horror comes in Joins the party in chapter thirty. So it's it's a brutal brutal book log i. I often encouraged our listeners. To like go ahead and go to the source material and learn stuff for yourself. Obviously but like. Don't don't read this book. not this book. yeah believe me. read this book. We're we're doing it so you don't have exactly so chapter thirty starts. In the land of zahra hemlock which was one of our favorite ones with the neophytes who are gods good white and delight some little boys and girls burying their dead after a huge with the layman knights who are gods dark skinned baddies. The surviving laminates are kicked out. The fights have some of their have some days of fasting and morning in prayer and then since they got rid of all the dark people quote there began to be continual peace throughout the land. God not racist at all. No no shut up Literally everybody was good and kept all the commandments. and shit. it's it's it's weird. That cliven bundy loves this book. Isn't it. I just had that right. Yeah strange will. And it's such a trope in throughout the book of mormon Especially in the book of alma bit but throughout that entire populations just all act as one character. You know individual no individuality or there's no fax percent. yeah there's no factions. There's no nuance opinion. Yeah the richest people were evil. The people were evil. The people are righteous fucking well and that's exactly it. This is a classic joseph smith. Move here you fix all of the problems literally make everything perfect for years then realize that you have that you have to have conflict to have a story and little they turn their hearts away from god again again right which does make me wonder how many angry frustrated grumbles martin harris heard from behind the curtain as joseph was dictating. I i imagine it to be something like this. Joseph says does the people did have no disturbance in all the sixteenth year of the reign of the judges over the people of knee fi and it came to pass in the commencement of the seventeenth. Year of the reign of the judges. There was continual piece. So it's amazing. It's amazing how long you can. You can stretch out. Nothing happened right. Exactly or martin harris is probably like hey joseph is going to pick up anytime soon right. Oh yeah yeah sure. sure sure. Let's take lunch and then we'll come back and Pick it up so anyway when they did get back from lunch. Joseph introduces the story of cora. Hor and it's a hell of an introduction comes out swinging at this guy quote. There came a man into the land of zahra hamila and he was anti christ for he began to preach unto the people against the prophecies which had been spoken by the prophets concerning the coming of christ boom. That's what passes for character building this. Yep he's new in down and he's anti christ that says bad guy yeah exactly and he literally might be one of the most nuanced characters in the book of mormon. It's to that in that moment. That joseph smith didn't invent a pre pre columbian railroad for him to tie a woman to one hundred percent. Yes exactly now. He's not the anti christ mind you. he's just anti christ. Yeah later he is. He's handed la- leader. He's an anti christ. So lots of ways to use that phrase. I guess anyway. The point is that we're supposed to hate him and that's all we know about him for a minute. Then the ebook answers the question. We're all asking which is if he's preaching against the prophecies. Why isn't he getting his ass kicked. Well now. now we get to several versus. About the hemlock criminal justice system it turns out that in ancient mesoamerica you were legally allowed to believe or not believe. Isn't that nice. And there are several versus justifying this position. Because old joseph was clearly deeply ambivalent about whether heathens should be allowed to speak or not right but the knee of hemlock landed on yes you can be a disgusting evil satan worshipping shit bag atheist if you want to perv and the good book gives a series of reasons why god wants it that way. God wants an open society where people are free to believe what they want and they have the legal right to talk about their beliefs freely. Put a pin in that anyway. Seven versus later. We're back to this anti christ. Which in this book is hyphenated with. Both words capitalized. By the way he finally gets a name the name corridor and even though we just had an entire opening arguments episode about alternative religious views in fight law. It is once again emphasized that he's legally allowed to do this. No matter how mad that makes you anyway. Core is preaching. There will be no christ remember. This takes place before. Jesus this is like bbc. Seventy five or something like that. So there's still waiting for this messiah and that there's no god and that there's no evidence that the prophecies are true. He says quote. Oh ye that are bound down under a foolish and vain. Hope whitey. yoke yourselves with such foolish things. Why do you look for christ for. No man can know anything which is to come. Behold these things which ye call prophecies which you say are handed down by holy prophets behold. They are foolish. Traditions of your father's so i like this guy feels pretty right. I'm with you great. And here's what's interesting about this chapter. Joseph smith like all the screenwriters of all of the best godawful movie episodes has to thread a needle here if you want the character to be at all believable which you know. It's a book of mormon. Why start now but whatever he has to try to make him make some sense but it can't make too much sense or you know readers might realize that he's actually you know the one who's right. So joseph smith throws in classic the classic the a straw man which is people who leave the church. Just want to sin now. This one's ubiquitous in the modern era. If you google why do people come become atheists or why do people leave the church and you find a christian websites answer. I guarantee you somewhere on that page. You'll find this. They just want us in. yeah now. Nobody that i've ever met or even heard of became an atheist because they wanted to sit no way and religious people have no problem sending they do it all the time to church on sunday. It's not fucking biggie. Right considering a source of this material reading right now exactly yeah totally. Now i will say this. There are some folks who eventually noticed that. God's rules about sex were stupid and that led them to realize that god might not be real and then they went on to have a delightful and less fettered sex life. But that's not leaving because you want to sin that's leaving because you realize that you were lied to and then sending well. Inside the central contradiction. There is that if i'm not into religion those religious religiously mandated since or not since right. It's just having a drink or get though. They often though they they will often say. I've heard many a believer. Say well you still believe you just want to send so you pretend like you don't believe also put a pin in that anyway. Oh quarterhorse horse said quote. There could be no atonement made for the sins of men but every man fared in this life according to the management of the creature. I guess meeting were all just animals. Therefore every man prospered according to his genius and and that every man conquered according to his strength and whatsoever. A man did was no crime right. Yeah what atheists believe is that you can do whatever you want. And since there's no god to tell you what's right or wrong there's no such thing as crime and everything is god. Damn free parole. Yeah yup that's added wildlife entirely. It's what we're all about. It's why they're the prisons are packed with atheists positively overflowing Now regardless of that stupidity apparently a guy talking mostly reasonably about the logical problems of magic. Daddy's in the sky and wizards predicting the future was a welcome diversion in perfect step. Fortunes are a hamlet and a bunch of people started listening and liking what they were hearing and women and men immediately turned to quote committing horde. Them that's what worry orden's yeah exactly. Ooh his own. He should get a t shirt. Well that's his podcast. Exactly yeah any who core a horror did didn't stay in zor He took a show on the road. You went to the land of jerry sean. To preach to the people of ammon who used to be lamen nights They're the evil dark skinned ones remember. But here's a twist. These guys were more wise than the knee fights. It literally says that and they immediately bound core whore and dragged him in front of ammon who was the high priest who him to be quote carried out of the land. Didn't we spend an oddly. Long amount of time talking about how it was good and god or deigned. The people be free to preach whatever they want. Shut up is it really. It's a different time now idiot. Exactly literally. I guess i just love the place where they are. More wise is the place where they're going against. God's idea of how the law is supposed to go but anyway the idea that martin harris was probably from behind the curtain going. Hey you know you wrote that stuff about really no freedom of speech. Does she want to set up a theocracy. Shit it's literally this. This chapter goes back and forth on that issue a dozen times. It's it's your head starts to spin anyway. Then cora hor tried his shtick in the land of gideon and they bound him and took him to the high priest and the chief judge of the land named good dona. Now i'm i'm not. I'm going to read a pretty big section of this because it's the first time we actually hear what cohorts says and well. It's pretty fucking compelling so this is him talking to godot the high-priced you say this people is a free people. Behold i say they are in bondage. You say that those ancient prophecies are true. Behold i say you don't know that they are true you say that these people This is a guilty and fallen people because of the transgression of apparent hold. I say that a child is not guilty because of his parents and he also say that christ show come but behold i say he do not know the that you didn't do not know that there she'll be a christ and you also say that he shall be slain for the sins of the world. And thus you lead the people you lead away this people after the foolish traditions of your fathers and according to your own desires and you keep them down even as they were in bondage that they might glut. Oh the might glut yourselves. With the labors of their hands and they durst not look look up with boldness and they durst not enjoy their rights and privileges. They not make use of that which is their own less they should be less should offend their priests who do yoke them according to their desires and have brought them to believe by their traditions and their dreams and their whims and their and their visions and their pretend mysteries that they should if they did not do according to their words of offend some unknown being who they say is god a being who has never. Who's who is who never has been seen or known who never was nor ever will be to me. That is a pretty shocking slam. Dunk corey i wanna come on the show. Yeah excellent work. Yeah reading from an outsider's perspective. That is some hard hitting skepticism. Yeah anyway very reasonable totally reasonable. Yeah anyway the high priest did what all believers do. When they hear a skeptic challenge their beliefs he told horror that his heart was hard and shipped back to our hemlock. Because that's good writing. Why did we leave anyway. Where if we're just going back to stand before the big boss alma skunk done done now almaz guy who's going to set things right. He's the great wise high priest who has the apologetic to put cohort hitchens in his place. First he tackles the claim that the priests make money off the labor of the people and for this. He uses the classic apologetic do not. He literally takes several paragraphs to say. I make my own money so shut up. Then they say they get to the real stuff all my ass core if he believes in god and in christ core horse says a new. Hasn't he clear although rates. Yeah exactly almost says almost starts to do the classic logical fallacy and says what evidence have you that there is no god or that christ cometh not i say unto you that you have none save it is your word only thereby demonstrating that not only does he not understand who has the burden of proof but that he doesn't recognize that his own arguments can be turned back to him because guess who's word only is also the only evidence for the other side. Then he makes his big proof that god does indeed exist things. You know all the things that's literally as argument. He's shocked the coral can't see it. Frankly yeah so does the final gambit he asks for evidence that god is real. Show me a sign. He says i'll believe now in real life that is a one hundred percent reasonable thing to ask but almaz like but the things look at all the things that's your goddamn sign so core just refuses to acknowledge the things and and says that's not a very good argument. He's such a stubborn. It's acquaintances five ways. Right right a look. There's a world someone made the stars move. Someone makes it's like okay. That's pretty deep. Just the same argument over and over again. Obviously yeah where did it alone from. Yeah so this is the point in the story where it takes a tarantino pivot where we take one moment in this godforsaken book that feels slightly realistic and we plunge into adolescent doofus style. Magic reality revenge stupidity alma. Says you wanna sign. I'll show you assign since you won't shut up and stop ruining god for everybody. God will shut you up. And with that corps is struck dumb permanently and with that corridor like a good and consistent skeptic that he has always been admits in writing that he was wrong and that god must exist. because he can't speak anymore do you think he was carrying his own. Gold-plate jot that down on or do they provide you with one in the courts. What's really funny. And i didn't write this. But what's really funny. Is that when they ask him believing in god now somebody writes it to him as though so such a dumb as just ask him. It's far anyway anyway. yes there's another popular believers straw man right there because about how he always they throw the throw the in this a straw man about how he always secretly believed deep down and that satan tricked him by coming to him like an angel to tell him that there was no god because as we all know god right. Yeah non-belief so often starts with an angelic visitation skepticism. A supernatural right here. Exactly but honestly really. Who's the bad guy here. Cora horror has conflicting beliefs based on lack of evidence and once he gets good evidence even though it fucks him up for life he acknowledges it but that's not the takeaway that we're supposed to get no cora. Hor is pronounced wicked and ends up going door to door begging for food because apparently mute people can't work and everyone who has believed him reverts back to being a good little good little church mouse and eventually core horror was viciously trampled to death. Oh my god and lest you think that i'm skewing. How the book presents this fate you with the actual final verse of the chapter which has a rare moral of the story style ending and thus we see the end of him who perverted the ways of the lord thus we see that the devil will not support his children at the last day but deaths speedily drag them down to hell and the name of jesus christ amen. Yeah so he's he should stand as a shining example of the power of the gospel right and he should be like what you know. That's what they were teaching missionaries and the mtc is cory horwitz convinced. It took striking mute and then there were some scribblings in the courtroom yada yada but but the hardest of hearts can be changed and and according to their own belief system. Harp became a good guy. The am i wrong. Yeah oh yeah. But i think the takeaway from this story at least from their perspective is don't ask questions yeah right. It's meant to chill to put a chill into the spine of anyone who would dare ask for a sign or ask for evidence or ask for any kind of reality based reason to believe this. Well i don't know dan if you're gonna if you're gonna go go here but i do know a lot of people who had a faith crisis because of the story. Oh really in the same way that. I know of some people who had faith crises because of the story of jesus in the fig tree because if says in that story it wasn't fixed season just went up to the victory didn't have figs so fucked up. Yeah yeah in. This story like corridor is making valid points. He has questions you wants to know and god strikes him dumb right and he says i believe and it ends up being a poor beggar and and getting trampled today. Yeah what's the what's the point of changing your mind. You know like what value is there. Yeah and if you read the story and you're like okay. Here's the problem. I'm having the lesson of the story is not supposed to ask questions. But the story has caused me to have questions fucking. We're supposed to do with that. Yeah it's a mess it's a it's a fun little thing and again. Every time we do a story in the book of mormon. It's just a lesson in why we don't why we edit why we don't claim that our book was directly translating from another book that's directly from god and the and thus make it so that we can't actually like you know edit the other stuck with this garbage mess a story forever it's an albatross around their necks but there you go there you go The third corey. Yep go get out there and have a have a corey horror of time and let's move on. Hey uncle mark yes sir. I know that you you recently crossed a border that is that is somewhat impenetrable right now. Because you know we're still in the middle of a pandemic. I managed to slide through into a closed country. The largest undefended border in the world. Which is quite something. You just got a loop up a lot got you gotta make a run for it anyway. The one of the things that you did before you went there was to get yourself A shot in the arm. I sure did. And i'm glad i did. Yeah and i've got my appointment. I finally got an appointment. Because i finally utah in utah. I'm in an age group. That's going to get them. So i in a in a week and a half. I'm going to be getting my first. Shot they the oh. That's good so they finally lowered it to uncles exactly. It's now well yeah exactly like mark old people style but like you know as young spry uncles can get them to now here teenagers. Well that's right but the question is do i really want it. I think there's a lot to unpack their no it just venting. This disease is not a good idea for some reason. I'm not sure why. But i'm pretty sure that uncle doug you can tell me. Well i'm gonna do my best to convince you otherwise okay Yeah like uncle. Dan just referenced uncle mark and i have both been vaccinated. I'm so happy to hear about that down. He didn't know that that you're getting your vaccine in a in short order. Yeah that's great news and once the government has managed to get all podcasters vaccinated. They can move onto doctors nurses teachers and the general public so essential workers. That's right right so hopefully many of you out there have either received your first vaccination or getting close to being able to something tells me joe rogan's not going to be getting one but that's a subject for another needle would break trying to penetrate is fuck and skin. It's crazy that it's basically been one year since this all started depending on obviously where you are and so it's it's hard not to take stock of what we've all been through in these last twelve interminable months but as the experts keep telling us we are not through this yet and whether we actually get out of this depends on the vast majority of doing the right things. We still need to wash our hands. Practice proper social distancing stay away from parties sporting events and concerts wear masks diligently and get the fucking vaccine as soon as we all can. There is still a real possibility that this virus could mutate into something that makes all the sacrifice effort for nothing so the subject of my segments could not be more timely today. I wanna talk about anti vaccine and the anti vaccine movement like on this show. We've talked about every form and fashion of out. There of wu there. An anti vaccine is definitely a woo. But most moves are basically harmless. If you wanna get your palm read go for it. If you don't want to leave the house until you've read your daily horoscope cares if you want to try and communicate with your dead relatives via a ouija board. I light the candles for you if you want to stick ajay up your recently steamed gene. Cram the fucker up there. Just don't do it during allergy season. Jade is hypoallergenic. Of course these was. These lose can be harmful if say by following some fortune cookie prediction. You make bad decisions. And there are wounds that are that are inherently harmful like trepidation or reputation trepidation grimace conjuring. Being being reluctant is not a woo. Yeah but there is only one wou that is on the world health organization's top ten list of global health threats. And that's antitax or as they put it vaccine hesitancy want to know what else is on that list. Well covid nineteen obviously poor third world third world health. Care you bulla. Dang gay fever. Hiv and climate change. That's right guy fieri. You're that's right. The world health organization sees anti vacs as dangerous as aids and climate change. Jesus there is no real way to know how many people die every year due to anti vaccine damage it causes but the. Who believes that. At least one point five million people a year could be saved if vaccine distribution was marginally improved and one of the biggest impediments to that. Marginal improvement is the anti vaccine movement. So yeah i see you know the the numbers get big real fast As we'll discuss the anti vaccine movement could actually derail our defeat. Derail our efforts to defeat cove in nineteen plunging. His back into the pit where we we were all a year ago and killing millions more people unlike the viruses of the body this movement seeks to protect anti vaccine viruses of the mind and as such might be one of the deadliest viruses in history underlying all of this is the fact that anti vaccine stupid belligerent anti-science often racist and easily disapproval. Not only that. But it's also inconsistently applied illogical to its core and poorly thought out if any of its adherents think about it all. Oh they think they think hard they have developed many many vo ciprusov ways of defending their positions. So well if you say so. But we're not saying good or smartwatch. Just many many ways. Let's agree on loud. Okay unlike other words this one has to be confronted and defeated or were doomed. I would never tell you to slap the tarot cards out of the hands of the yoga instructor. You're trying to have sex with but if you know any anti vaccine you should really talk to them and try and change their mind. If this virus of the mind is not confronted and treated it could kill us all. So let's dig in shall we As early as the tenth century in china someone noticed that those who had previously had a mild case of a deadly disease where less susceptible to that disease later this led to a practice called variation wherein poss- or scabs from an infected person are blown up the nasal passages rubbed on scratches on the skin of an uninfected individual. I know this just sexy as it said. I know this sounds disgusting but honestly it was probably the least disgusting thing to have happened to you. On any given day in the tenth century why this practice worked in would would would remain a mystery for centuries but by the sixteenth and seventeenth century. It was in fairly wide use in china india and turkey before making its way to england in the eighteenth century. Now here's the thing. Eighteenth century england was certainly somewhat enlightened Certainly somewhat enlightened place for the world back then but that doesn't mean it wasn't still barbaric. Yeah so some of the first True scientific experiments of vaccines were carried out on children prisoners and slaves. None of who are you going to do it. On good like grown up white people essentially aldrin. This would pretty disposable. Then the children's a bad show for kids man doubt this would unfortunately be a part of the development and experimentation to vaccines for well over one hundred years as we'll see these evil practices would become a bit a small bit of the fodder that would become the anti vaccine movement But before we get to that let's talk about. How what what a game. Changing development vaccine science was for the human race prior to their development. When a disease crossover from some animal to humanity. All we can really do is just wait for it to run. Its course outbreaks of cholera influenza. And of course ends long. That's known as the trump plan. That's exactly right exactly so yeah. Outbreaks of cholera influenza and of course bubonic plague would kill millions of people per outbreak. The version of the botanic plague known as the black death killed between seventy five and two hundred million people between thirteen forty-six and thirteen fifty three. Jeez yeah bad guys. They were just week from. Hiv aids is still a global pandemic has killed more than thirty six million people. Since nineteen eighty-one of course there is not a vaccine yet for this disease but the therapeutics are incredible. If expensive and hiv aids is very preventable. The reasons that it has and continues to spread basically racism and religious are very much a part of the anti vaccine movement as we'll discuss but yeah i mean that you know. We were all alive during the aids crisis in the eighties. Although you know pretty young and pretty dumb but that was a terribly preventable disease. That was treated as a gay disease. A black disease on african disease and was able to spread. So that's good stuff and and and when people died of it it was horrid. It was absolutely horrible. Fact that these therapeutics are now exist when and guys that caught it in the original wave are dying of old age is incredible. It's incredible bears mentioning. We'll get back to this. That's not happening everywhere that aids problem but of course it's right exactly so in the eighteen eighties. Louis pasteur brought. What was a pretty chaotic and unorganized field of science into the modern age when he developed microbial fermentation and pasteurization. Since then we have developed vaccines for pure peer parl. Fever rabies anthrax cholera polio measles. Tetanus smallpox chickenpox influenza. hpv. Hepatitis lime disease. Rubella whooping cough wrote rotavirus mumps diptheria dang game malaria tuberculosis among others so It's you know it's been a game changing development for the human species. This of course brings us to today and the emergence of covid nineteen as we have all become acutely aware. This disease is incredibly contagious. Having spread from wuhan china to every corner of the globe in a matter of months as of the time of this record covid nineteen has killed two point six nine million people worldwide with the us accounting for five hundred thirty nine thousand of those deaths. So where number. One and because of the incumbent national governments the selfishness of far too many and the vast amounts of disinformation ready in the psychological bloodstream. From the anti vaccine movement this disease was poised to simply just wash around the globe over and over until mcnew and more resistant and more deadly strains evolved and let's not be too optimistic. This could still happen. We are in desperate. Yeah yeah we're we're in a desperate foot race against these variants as we speak the only way we can beat this virus back and stop the carnage let alone get back to some sort of normalcy is for enough of us in our fellow humans all over the world not just in our own countries to get the vaccines that are now available to reach her immunity. Now we've all heard that term. It is of course the critical mass of humans that have to have immunity such that the the the disease cannot spread with impunity. Excuse me the former president called it herd mentality suggests wrong in the most apt freudian slip in history once herd immunity is reached. The reproduction number reaches zero. This is called are not right or rs. Zero right now covid. Nineteen is between our two and our three meaning that each person who gets it can infect two to three other people in order to return immunity or not with covid nineteen fifty and sixty seven percent of the population needs the vaccine in america. This means one hundred and sixty four million two hundred twenty four million people need to be vaccinated but but more would be better always better. This is the baseline just to stop the the you know the the spread on but remember this is a global pandemic and the longer this disease persists anywhere. The higher the chance of chances that dangerous variants can evolve. Defeat the vaccines so to win this fifty to sixty seven percent of the populations of england china iraq togo and benin needs to be vaccinated worldwide. That is three point. Eight to five point. One billion people need to get vaccinated and fast as of now. Seventy seven or so million americans have received at least their first dose of the vaccine which is a good start but globally only four hundred ten million people have been vaccinated so far. That's bad that's only eight to eleven percent of where we need to be We are not through this yet and there is no time to spare and there is certainly not time for the disinformation campaign by the anti vaccine movement and its erstwhile allies The mere fact that we have these vaccines at all is truly incredible. And i've heard you know including us have referred to it is miraculously because that word by its very definition is meant to apply to events that defy explanation or explanation explanation or expectations. But this was not a miracle this was the achievement of scientists and the body of work. They have all contributed to. So let's talk about these vaccines for a second because it will. It will inform where we end up while the covid nineteen virus was new to humanity hence the term novel there was a robust body of knowledge of corona viruses out there due to the previous corona vices. Like sars and mers right. This data was shared globally in an open source initiative. Call g sad or id which shares genomic data on influenza viruses with anybody that wants it because of that body of knowledge we were not starting out from zero but even still Not only had to take years to develop vaccines in the past. There was not any vaccine in existence for any kind of corona virus so the challenge was extreme as the pandemic enveloped the globe in there in early. Two thousand twenty scientists were able to isolate covid. Nineteen genetic sequence on january eleventh twenty twenty which in itself is incredible next. there was. Yeah that's really quick. Super super quick next. There was an unprecedented collaborative Undertaken by national governments drug companies and research universities to find a vaccine. The main vehicles for this effort were the. Who an initiative by the g. twenty called access to covid nineteen tools. Accelerator so these are the two main bodies that kind of tried to coordinate all this research. I think you mean president. Trump's warp speed initiative. Well i'll i'll get to that for so k. and yes that's the w. h. o. That said donald trump pulled us from in may of twenty twenty because he needed to blame someone for his failures and this is true because they refuse to call it. The china virus which is something that would have no evil consequences at all right. Yeah that hasn't turned into anything even shittier nope no. It's been great so ankle. Dan mentioned warp speed in. May trump announced operation warp speed which was an effort to fast track. Funding clinical trials approval and distribution of potential vaccines. It was named operation warp speed because donald trump is a child. Yeah but the the the thing is also you think he ever watched star trek like he. The i'm guessing that was a that was a jared kushner name or don jr. something yeah i know like he doesn't seem to watch something like that in glean anything from it. He's just too fucking self is was the fact that it wasn't operation. Trump speed is pretty surprising. So the thing is it's not a bad idea to do this. But trump ran it early like he's run everything else in his life Into the ground basically. So although moderna moderna and johnson and johnson did take funding from warp speed to develop vaccines pfizer did not not wanting to infect pun intended their research with the trump administration's incompetence as for the distribution phase of warp speed. Trump did basically nothing right. God only knows how this would append out. Had he won the election point of order. He didn't do nothing. he took full credit for. That's exactly right it's true that's not nothing. That's what's so funny. Not only you know. He's claiming credit to this day for the vaccines. I think should give him some. You know some credit and respect because we all remember how much credit and respect trump gave the previous administration for the economy right exactly so trump is claiming credit for this to this day which sets up one of the many contradictions in the story. The foot soldiers in trump's army are by and large q. on believing anti vaccine and here we have trump winking at them while demanding credit for the vaccines yeah and very typically encouraging people to get vaccinated but keeping his own vaccination secret. This will not. It's but but you we know that the cue brain is incredibly incoherency is it's not a problem truly and i'm i remain convinced that trump didn't show a picture of getting the vaccine because he didn't want to see him in short sleeved shirt with his shirt pulled up. I believe right well. None of us wanted to see. That's i think him for it. That's fair so with all that context. Let's get to the anti vaccine. Since the first vaccinations there have been anti vaccine. There's there were those who objected to having scabs blown up their nostrils because it was gross and it was weird and no one understood why it worked or in many cases because religious leaders railed against these religious arguments ran the gamut from scientists devil worship to viruses were created by god to punish the wicked and any attempt to stop them was fighting against the will of god all right. It's it's the same reason that when ben franklin put a lightning rod on wherever it was town hall and philadelphia or whatever and all the churches inveighed against as as yup subverting god's will and then two years later they all had lightning round exactly. Yeah so in the nineteenth century there were anti vaccination leagues that sprung up in the us and the uk that slowed down the vaccination campaigns against smallpox and led to untold numbers of unnecessary deaths. Similar leagues appeared. All around the world. is that campaign continued. Most of these leagues focused on. What would become the main fear of all anti vaccine harm to children. Most current anti vaccine fall into two buckets with one being far larger and more nefarious than the other. The biggest grin. We just keep them in the bucket. Really we could seal it then. That would be great. the biggest group or those. That believe they are. There is some conspiracy or several conspiracies behind vaccines. And we'll get to that he's ranged from the profit motive of the pharmaceutical and medical industry all the way to alien experimentation of course whatever their particular belief is it's based on a belief in dark forces with no regard regard for public health. The second much smaller bucket are those that simply. Don't care enough to get vaccinated. They're part of the problem. So don't feel any need to be part of the solution so while the latter is certainly a cause for concern. It's the former group that is a global crisis and there are different kinds of anti vaccine. There's some who to completely deny an issue any kind of accent. There are some that want to spread out. Vaccinations over time. Only get this one or that one so the kind of run the gamut but they pretty much all believe the same things. they're all looking at the same materials and so we're going to keep them in a single group for the purpose of this discussion. Because whatever you're doing if you're slowing down vaccines or you're not getting him. You're the effect is the same right. Modern yeah the modern iteration of this insanity has its roots in the campaign to vaccinate against it. Fury tetanus pertussis hope. I said that right process. I think in the nineteen seventies conflicting and spurious reports appeared in the uk press that there was significant neurological after effects from this vaccine in children. Not true but in the history of followed a film called vaccination roulette and a book called a shot in the dark hit the market. These two works described. Dark conspiracies joins stuck what this was in the nineteen seventies late nineteen seventies early august. Okay this you know what we call the anti vaccine movement isn't that old you know and i thought actually well it didn't get get it's real. We'll get to early where it kinda got so it's injection so to speak right But the so both these films were films. Booker complete hui. But they're still around today. There's still in circulation then came the inciting incident of the modern anti vaccine movement in nineteen ninety eight a british physician named andrew wakefield released a paper in the lancet called iliad lymphoid najah hyperplasia nonspecific colitis and pervasive developmental disorder. In children. try saying that three times or just once The paper claimed a link between vaccinations for measles. Mumps rubella and autism in children right given the wakefield was a doctor at the time. He's not anymore right and the paper sounded scientific. It caused a major stir one that we are still feeling today. I don't want to spend too much time on wakefield because he is truly one of the world's greatest monsters and quite literally may have as much blood on his hands. As any of history's greatest villains. Yeah he's essentially a baby murderer. Yeah yeah Except to say that it turns out that he was paid by various organizations to produce the paper and the paper itself was so completely spurious. That lancet retracted wakefield with stripped of his medical license. That hasn't stopped him though he was behind. The you know quote unquote documentary faxed. That came out in the in the two thousands with the tagline. The movie they don't want you to see gotta love that. That's a that all conspiracy theories that's catnap right exactly and it's basically the citizen kane of the anti vaccine movement. Glenn watch the trailer for this monster. Snipe nightmare if you're up to it. And if you're not filled with boiling hate for wakefield. I don't wanna know you. It's necessary it's manipulative. It's grotesque it's shocking. The godawful movies guys did it right. Yeah i think they pound a nail. It's horrible and not for nothing but because you know autism is tragic and it's very difficult for families of autistic people to you know to raise autistic children and And again i'm. I'm not trying to shame her or anyone out. There is offended by. I don't mean that. By any stretch. I i would i would. I would ask to modify tragic. I think it's just simply a a different way of being that yes can be more challenging. Yeah of course and but to try and manipulate people with autistic children autistic family members and use that video to manipulate others. I think his tragic up and completely missing from the conversation is the fact that autism is way better than most of the diseases. Which vaccines present promote google fucking picture of smallpox. So in the in the research or polio polio. And the research for this. I saw a lot of. What's so fucked up. Is i saw a lot of photos about this stuff. From recent like not pictures of people with smallpox in eighteen ninety smallpox is as it recurred it. The smallpox hasn't but polio has had some outbreaks and stuff like that. Because of this fucking shit so the sequel to this piece of shit vacs movie faxed to the people's truth. Electric google was released in november of two thousand nineteen mere months before the covid pandemic and. I don't want to wish ill on people. So i'm gonna stop talking about wakefield right now But this this fear that these vaccines caused autism was based on the fact Pounded in these documentaries that these vaccines contain traced can contained trace amounts of mercury in the form of a chemical called mirasol which contains forty nine percent methylmercury ever so little mirasol was used in these vaccines that it came nowhere near a dose that could potentially cause harm and in fact in two thousand three danish researchers conducted a study involving thousands of children who who received vaccines containing and thousands who receive vaccines that contain none and they found that the instances of autism was exactly the same in both groups. This these vaccines the mirasol. A methylmercury are not causing autism but the mirasol has been removed from almost every major vaccine simply due to the public perception. Yeah so The unfortunate truth though is this fear vaccines and medical science. Being less than forthright and ethical is not entirely without cause. I mentioned earlier. That the first vaccination experiments were carried out on slaves children and prisoners. Not good then. I don't want slaves and prisoners to get it but i'm just wondering why the children are thrown in there. I think it is i think. No i think it's because a lot of these diseases struck children's childhood okay. So they're they're like oh we'll just use children to experiment with ren of course there were. There were the tuskegee. Experiments carried out by the public. Health service tuskegee university. And the cdc in which african american men were told. They were being given free healthcare to treat their syphilis when in reality they were not and for forty years. They were observed to see what long term syphilis would do to the human body. Yeah this led to the painful and miserable death of one hundred twenty eight of the men. It is one of the darkest chapters in american medical history and has been a consistent reason for mistrust of the us government particularly by african americans. Ever since for good reason yeah there are. There are some people that are that. I think are justified in their hesitancy. Yep but it's not fucking jenny mccarthy and you know her fucking social set of white upper class liberals in hollywood bowl right. Yeah and we'll definitely we'll we'll dig into that and hate on some people here in a minute But the tuskegee experiments diddley disa- major reforms in the us health industry that remain today including the creation of the office for human research protections within the health and human health and human services administration so these exist specifically to prevent anything like that from ever happening again. The body of law that exists because of to gigi is significant but if your natural inclination is to mistrust the government will the tuskegee experiment. Certainly don't help yeah Another tenant of the anti vaccine movement is something called vaccine overload. This is not a medical term by the way but essentially means that too much vaccine or vaccines administered in two rapid a succession will weaken the immune system and lead to adverse affects again. This is hogwash. Not only have so. This is a really interesting fact. Not only a vaccine become so efficacious over the last several decades such that the immune immunological components in the fourteen. Vaccines administered to children. Today is less than ten percent of what it was in the seven. Vaccines administered in nineteen eighty hour. Yeah it's the vaccine. Science has has come a long way and not for nothing but many vaccines must be administered on a specific timeline. In order to work yet right yeah vaccine overload. Unfortunately it's still a common try amongst Anti vaxxers ironically the success of many vaccines one of the main driving forces behind behind the anti vaccine trump actually brought that up at one of the debates for he was president. Yeah it just saying well. Why don't we just space it out more exactly. Yep so the success of many vaccines ironically working against them. You know quote. Nobody has measles or polio anymore. So why do they keep injecting us with. It is like a common trope of anti vaccine so while the answer to this seems so obvious as to be mind-blowing it's very common Because of this. Ironically antibac- sentiment has caused outbreaks of cholera whooping cough measles mumps into brick yellow says in the united states in the last several years I'm all of which were basically eliminated up exactly. I mentioned before that there is inherent racism to anti vaccine movement because there is the firstly the anti vaccine movement is heavily involved in all things conspiratorial including and on which are inherently racist. Nobody wants to be called a racist especially racist. Most anti actors don't even wanna called bat preferring the moniker vaccine risk aware and you know anti vaccine is by no means only a white phenomenon however the communities often hit first and hit hardest by disease outbreaks or black and brown communities one of the best ways to combat and curb the spread of of viral diseases is to get them where they start which is oftentimes poorer countries so back in two thousand fourteen. We went to west african. We the us went to west africa to help prevent the spread of a bola and successfully managed to keep this terrible disease from spreading out of control. Guess what anti vaccine are often against funding for efforts in these poor often black and brown countries. We're seeing this in real time now with covid. Nineteen the reasons that black and brown communities are medically disadvantaged are many and systemic but they are undeniable. Yeah so i'm sorry. If you're unsubstantiated ridiculous and easily just provable. Beliefs lead to bad outcomes in primarily black and brown communities. I don't know what else to that racist. Anti vaccine just stinks of white privilege front. Yes it does for sure yet it unfortunately. This movement has garnered some famous kind of and powerful adherents for minor. Celebrities like jessica biel jim carey jenny. Mccarthy leashes still re silverstone gentleman juliette lewis. Charlie sheen rob Danny masterson selma blair and to a certain extent bill. Maher up to god. help me robert deniro. I know that. Oh that one hurts. Yeah yeah really why. Well i mean. I guess i still want my money back for bad grandpa but expect good actor but i never thought of is an idiot. Yeah exactly yeah well and then not to mention like you said. Uncle mark the forty fifth president of the united states donald j trump among many tweets and outbursts on the subject. He tweeted in two thousand fourteen quote healthy young child goes to doctor gets pumped with massive shot of many vaccines doesn't feel good and changes autism. Many such doesn't feel good and changes was. It was a good tweet though. We gotta give him credit for that. That's a solid there. So yeah the man. In charge of project warp speed the government initiative to generate and distribute a vaccine from may of twenty twenty two january of two thousand twenty. One was an anti vaccine and then of course the overwhelming scientific consensus is that vaccines are widely safe in effect ineffective. There aren't many things that have such a consensus if four out of five. Dentists recommend a toothbrush. You're going to go buy it yet. That's nothing compared to the consensus on vaccines right and not for nothing. We've harped on this before. The scientific method that led to vaccines is the same method. That has led to air travel smartphones. Gps viagra the germ theory of disease. Chris larynx jar jar. Binks electricity the internet and grimace conjuring. You don't get to pick and choose here you believe in reputable science or you don't and if you don't that's fine but pleased to be handing your car keys and laptop. You can be skeptical about it but once the once you examine the evidence right. There's nothing to support the anti vaccine position exactly well except that they've got their own evidence and a they've got a whole cadre of their own doctors and their own scientists to save the opposite things and go ahead go ahead. I was going to say and you're going to mention this but the catholic church of course just came out and said cat. Catholic shouldn't get the johnson and johnson vaccine because fetal tissue was part of the research. I didn't even know that. Yep i'm gonna. I'm gonna go punch a hole in my television real quick. Yeah so this brings us to our current crisis throughout the covert bent pandemic anti vaccines have been howling that this was a hoax or that it was a bio weapon that the chinese either released on purpose lost control of and now that the vaccines are untested and dangerous. This was all spelled out in yet another quote unquote documentary released in two thousand twenty called. Plan democ oh yeah. This piece of propaganda push push the conspiracy. That covid was manmade. The doctors and hospitals use the pandemic as a money making venture. That masks actually caused disease and that hydroxychloroquine is active in stopping cove. It absolutely none of this is true and his counterproductive dangerous. But if you know any anti vaccine is you can bet money. They've seen it. So the filmmakers have been discredited the whole thing is a piece of shit But it's out there and the final piece of the puzzle to talk about is the speed with which the covid vaccines were developed. Rather than with develop. Because that's a big trope of anti vaccine is this came out too fast Rather than seeing this as a towering achievement of medical science anti factors point to it as proof that it's all rigged their point being that the government had them all along or they weren't tested rigorously enough and we don't know what's in them or both or both legs to believe all the things that can believe all the things regardless of what it whether it makes any sense to the first point i can only say that if donald trump had been hiding the vaccine this whole time and the early release would have guaranteed victory. Is there any personal life. That thinks he would not have blurted it out at some point tolerate to the second point we do know what's in these vaccines you can look it up online. The thing is if you're not a medical or virological expert or can speak english like me. You're probably not going to fully understand the you know what's in the stuff but again i don't fully understand how the internal combustion engine works but i don't think it's a government conspiracy to get me to work on time in your car. People know it's fucking pizza when they order. That's exactly what i find it. Hard to stomach the argument that we should refuse to put something in her body unless we fully understand what it's what it's from. What's in it from the people who celebrate the return of the mcrib right right Yeah i mean think about that. The next time you cram doritos in your mouth and wash it. Down with vodka tonic so anyway And they were rigorous rigorously tested. No steps were skipped in stroke of genius. Many of the steps necessary to create and test vaccine were run concurrently rather than in sequence and insert and some of the funding for this process. Came from you guessed. It operation warp speed so through the teeth. If you must you can tell your antitax friends. That trump deserves some credit here although with five hundred thirty nine thousand caveats. Yeah so we're getting a little long in the tooth here. I thought it was important to cover all this ground. So let's just sum up. Vaccines do not cause autism. In children there is no such thing as vaccine overload. We know exactly what's in the covid vaccines they were absolutely tested are very safe and you should not be taking your medical advice from charlie sheen adam right. Take it from us exactly. Take it from your doctor. So you know i hate to do this. But if there are any anti vaccine in your life it might be a worthwhile effort to engage with them and try if you can to convince them or enlighten them or move them because this thing is bad. It's real bad and we need everybody onboard. Unfortunately it's not just a matter of well they're only risking their own lives because they're not. There's there's no peeing section. The public pool is it. Is it so dangerous to them. They're willing to go through another fucking year of this right. You know four or five years because who knows if a variant pops up that's trickier. That's harder to make a vaccine for. Yeah we're all fucked so thank. God we've got a vaccine yup get it get. Let's get the herd immunity so that you were okay. We need to do this together. And and you know someone's going to have to talk to these people going to have to be us. It's gonna have to be us if if not now when if not who us. That's right all right okay. Well thanks uncle doug. I know there was a lot of work. Yeah all right. let's move on. Well friends that is it for this week's barn burner of show. Hey you hate vaccinations. We'd love to hear from you because we want to yell at you send us an email at how to and how to heretic dot com or if you're an anti galactic safeness some kind don't bother calling us about it at nine zero three eight eight to nine three hundred four six hundred six. I'm also twitter heretic and always thinks where patrons who we will get back with next week and thanks to our dark lord cody layton frenzy show and thanks to all of you friends for tuning in by friends.
The 9 Angles: Does Satan have a military?
"Wars. This episode of stuff they don't want you to know is brought to you by creature feature. A comedy podcast, all about exploring the hilarious wacky downright weird world of animal, and human behavior who said by Katie golden season, two of creature feature asking answers important questions. Like Ken dogs fill jealousy, how to animals adapt to living in human Centric areas, and more if you love could laugh and have a hunger for knowledge than you will fall head over tales for creature feature. Listen and subscribe at apple podcasts, the iheartradio app or wherever you find your favorite shows. UFO's to psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know a production of iheartradio's, how stuff works. Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. My name is called me. Ben, we're joined as always with our super producer, Paul mission control deck, and most importantly, you, are you. You are here and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know a quick check in as we want to do recently. How, how are you guys feeling feeling good? Did some traveling Noam backed good to be with you guys? Could it be with you, dude and sacred space? That is stuff. They don't want you to know. That's right. Hey, I got to know none of you will ever hear it, but I got to be on an episode of ridiculous history this weekend. That's right. That's right. The reason the no one will ever hear is because we forgot to record it. Who recorded a version of it while you were on adventures? Math will there we go? See, it was just an ephemeral moment that occurred, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Hope you guys do to help you save the show. Okay. I don't accept to your what you say. But it was it was a lot of, let's paint a picture, real quick. Matt was the voice of the super producer figure in the scenario like much, like, super producer, Paul mission control deck, but he was producer, Matt the madman Frederick and he decided it would be fun and ended up being very fun. If he was off stage like the voice of God, like the man behind the curtain, and he'd shined in with great quotes, and did voices and sound effects, and it was just a delight marry. All of a sudden, we're words written by Mr Ben bolan will those were quotations from Richard Warren, Sears. Okay. Well, then big ups Richard, and he did some great reenactments. So we I hope you will be able to join us for a recorded. Facade of that show. One day, you also can we mentioned this on air? You're in New Orleans a. Yeah. Went to crime Khan and just hung out for a little bit met a wonderful couple of the last names, white and black. They were they were really awesome and did some monitoring of a panel. It was a lot of fun. We've been doing more and more of these panel things recently. No paul. I know I know that despite trying to cajole you into talking on the show and it's not really your bag. So maybe for a check in with you. We can get a thumb up or thumb down is this a thumbs up thumbs down day. Oh, that's a vigorous. Thumbs up as a specific. Follow up question, Paul. I saw you at movies the other day, going to see a film was at thumbs up or thumbs down film, double thumbs up. You got to remind me what it was called again. Demon Tino, and it seemed like a really kind of interesting twisty, not sci-fi, but kind of an interesting absurdist weird kind of ride. I'm looking forward to checking it out. All right. All right. Well, here we are, again, folks, and we hope that your check in with yourself has gone well, feel free to tell us about it. If you discovered something, especially strange you can. You don't have to wait. You can just pause, the episode and call us now because we have a call in number. That's right. We're one eight three three as CD, w I t k to sell all of a sudden, at once making more or less intelligible more. Yeah. As people like ritual, stands, Cipolla feels like a ritual was like we're summoning something we say that. And here we are, again, folks conspiracy realist longtime in first-time listeners. Thank you for tuning in. We have spent several recent episodes, diving into the true crime aspects of this show, proven can. Spiracy. Many horrifying or disquieting things that were acts of Monday in human beings. Just kinda crappy people who were self important and or had power wanted more of it. That's kind of how this stuff goes often. But don't worry we have never forgotten about the supernatural side of this show, the world of the occult the world of the hidden, the SO teric, the unknown today, we are delving into the controversial world of what is called theistic satanism, and the strange story of something called the order of nine angles angles not angels. What the heck is this thing? You might ask the best way to answer. This question is to begin laying down some ground work, I. So here are the facts. Most people are cartoonish Lee wrong about satanism. This is true. You know. Yeah, when you when you hear satanism you. You probably think about some of the imagery that I myself have placed into videos about satanism robed figures, Baff, Mets everywhere horns of goats. And certainly pentagram pentacle is all of those kinds of things the chanting yes, is definitely one. And oh always almost always black, like just black clothing with some hints of red. Or maybe all red with some black the head of goat certainly heads of black goat with a thousand. Yes. Sacrifices both animal in human. Right. Right. The idea here is there's a secretive group of humans and maybe some not quite humans opposed to the more publicly dominant narrative ideology, or religious movements of Christianity Judaism, Islam, the people of the book writing, and the people worship this monotheistic God, who has in this entities past had a conflict with an adversary, sometimes called Lucifer morals, scratch, the devil, El Diablo. What are other good devil names like the actual devil, not demons say, yes? That's what. Yeah. And that the MorningStar and the MorningStar favorite, right? God's number two, the light bringer. That's a really good one. So, yeah, it gets into that permission thing. Right. So the idea here is for for most people on. They think of stereotypical Satan, or devil worshippers there. Picturing. People who accept this sort of supernatural religious narrative. Right. That there is a God and God had an adversary of some sort, who had all is known by these names. This was once an angel I among the angels, and then it fell in rebellion and it took its fellow mutineers with it. And now these people who worship this fallen angel seek to spread this message and to transform this, the Monday and world into something closer to his infernal vision. They also they also seem to usually informally refer to Satan as dude. Yeah. Absolutely. It's almost. It's interesting. How it seen as and we, we actually talked to David I briefly about this, how, there are these two opposing forces a force of light and force of darkness, essentially, or corruption on the other side, who I creation and corruption is kind of duality bounces around. And in a lot of things, right? Yeah. And Nostitz system as well and Star Wars movie Star Wars movies, and some animistic beliefs. I don't really know where I'm going just to say, like that, that really is such an old vision of how the universe functions within these sects or within these groups. So how accurate are these images, the pop up when we hear the word, you know, satanism or seat? More sugars. Luckily, for us, they are not very accurate, had all their there are several ons column genres of satanism. Right. And there are multiple interpretations of things that could be called Satan in these John RAs or their people's interpretation of what this thing, called Satan, actually means or represents without getting too, into the weeds on old boys identity, we'd like to refer you to our earlier video episode, there's all about the origins of Satan in near eastern and western ideology, and we even have a show called are there. The real Satan worshippers or something. Oh, we do. We do have that as well. Yeah. And it does into almost all the questions you might have like at the beginning of this. We're skipping all of that. Yeah. So if you pause today's episode to call us and leave us a message telling us how you're doing which thank you. By the way, if you did. Phil free deposit again and watch those YouTube videos as long as you're not driving, or flying a plane or something like that. So. Let's assume you, I'm posit- now, you know, all about the origins of Satan, it, whether they're real Satan worshippers, as with any religion or religious movement satanism has numerous branches. It's more of a convenient umbrella term for some related beliefs rather than any specific dogma because they, they have vastly different opinions. But they do have some commonalities, right. They have they have a couple of things that they all generally agree on. Yeah. Largely an interest in magic that can be played out in several ways either, like some sort of psycho-drama, which to me is a ritualized kind of performance of kind of experience. Sure. Is there another way of looking at that? Well, it's yeah. It's, it's one in which the, you know, we get catharsis which is why people watch and participate in plays. So it's sort of an an empowerment of catharsis, or a leveraging of that. So now. Now, the person who the, the person psycho dramas everywhere. It's in Christianity. It's an innocuous version of psychodrama would be the reenactment of the birth of the Christ child. Got it which all the kids do in church. But in this stuff, they're like I in this role. Now, am whatever deity, I so really performance of ritual it's kind of a rival or there's another kind of ritual, which is maybe less performance. It would ascribe mystical events and much more of a magic magical power kind of to these acts, as opposed to the psychodrama which to me, maybe implies that your body ING, but it's more catharsis rather than some kind of like spell the first or the second psychodrama psycho drama, yet because the mystical event that would be not as bad, as more of a spell that is more of like saying, I am doing this to create this effect, you know, in real time, and we can, we can also explore an instance of that, but we would want people to know what's, what's going on. Yeah. So that's that's one thing. Yes. This interest in in magic and, and the ritualized performance or an action of magic, but that's not it right. There's other stuff. There's also a sense of community, the creation of a community that defines roles in a hierarchy relationship between members somewhere between people who share a Miskel pursuit to those who live, according to a set of religious belief doctrine, in generally when you're talking about a lot of this stuff and how they're forming their community. You're talking about people who really see this philosophy of a symbolic Lucifer or Satan, which is more about yourself, your own, like the single members nonconformity to society in almost everywhere, as many ways as are achievable, right philosophy, thriving, on the maybe instead of nonconformity. They might see something like the benefits. Of being true to oneself. Yes. And in that way, it's, it's a lot of times about breaking your chains from a lot of societal norms, depending on the type of Satan is okay. Okay. Right. 'cause, you know there can be conformity with there can be internal conformity, strictly enforced in groups that are externally non-conforming. You know what I mean? Yes, it's, it's a little bit of a securities way to put that point. But you're the into more of there's some that focus a lot on individual individuality others on, like the actual sect. And of course, last commonality, not a big spoiler some sort of reference to Satan, if that worship of a singular entity in there are, there are many, many satanist groups of the best known of which are today are probably the church of Satan. Anton Levin, right? And the spin off of that. The I was called it the sequel of set the temple of set. It's sort of, like how golden girls was a spin off of Maude, but with Satan, that's a for golden girls fans. So the church of Satan, and the temple of set had this sort of low level, hierarchical leadership and kind of loosely agreed upon thing, right? We, we agree these following things, and then do as they'll wilt. So. I want to be very careful not to seem disrespectful of anyone's personal religious beliefs. If you're listening to this odds are you're probably not in the church Satan, just because there are so many other religions with so many other adherents out there, but your personal beliefs are your own, as long as you're not inflicting them on anyone else in or harming someone. It's our opinion that you, you can do what you want, you know, absolutely agreed. So with that all in mind, here are some just a few different types of satanism. Right. There's one that I think you are, you're probably alluding to directly there, Matt rational. Satanism it's secularized. It comes about in the nineteen sixties. It's a theistic meaning that there's not really a God. There's not. They calling it satanism is sort of using Satan, as a stand in for something else. This was under the direction of the famous Anton Levin, an author and occultist based in the states, who you can find audio and video recordings of his voice sounds far less sinister than one would initially assume it really does. And I will never understand why he didn't begin going exclusively by Zander, lavar, the as his. I mean having S Z ender totally as a middle name. That's powerful thought he. Looked like Ming the merciless from the flash, Gordon movie. Okay. Wow. He really does interesting. Yeah. Okay. Less than society thing with bald or shaved head guys. And go t's very pointy, go t a particular type of goatee. It's like that's super angled kind of one. Yes. And in this gentleman, I'm just going to call them Zander. Yeah. Or Levy do as though will see that. That's the whole of the law. He created this attack bible, it still to this day remains available. You can find it. It's one of the most at least most available books that you can find about satanism or the satanic religion, any form of this thing known as the church of Satan, that we've already mentioned, it is by far, the most well known as the thing that is mentioned. Oh, what's the what is that show? Gosh, why can't I think of it? Dateline? Twenty twenty on H B O comedy about nerds. It's awesome. Thanks game of thrones. Deadwood. Of the what is it? What's it called Paul? It's the Silicon Valley. Jeez. Silicon Valley, you'll see mentioned or at least referenced heavily in Silicon Valley where there's a satanist character. He talks about the anthem Lavelle the time and again, as you said, it's, it's all about atheism. It's about the individual essentially being empowered, and it really does have this nice symbolic, Mirroring going on between, you know Satan rebelling against God or whatever the large God is. And then the satanist rebelling against mainstream culture or, or mainstream religion right, right? There is a nice symmetry to the structure of the philosophy. Right. And it's exactly as you said, according to LeVine, neither God, nor Satan are actual beings. And this is heretical too many people who believe, otherwise, even some sadness, people who consider themselves such the only God in this sort of satanism is the per. Person themselves, the individual so Satan, quote unquote, Satan is a symbol representing the qualities that satanist embrace. So it's kinda like they took a character that they thought was cool and didn't think was real like superman or something. And they said, that's it. Those are the those are the things you want to aspire to be so invoking. The name of Satan, another infernal names is a tool in their rituals to focus one's mind on, on the manifestation of those qualities, and those workings tip in the hat to Alastair early. Of course now right? Yeah. Yeah. He's still in play. You guys seen good omens yet. The new TV adaptation. I preferred it to the book, I found the book whimsical in a way that didn't really speak to me, but I know I'm gonna get me for that. I found that about the show, I couldn't make it through episode one. It was a little too key TSE in the CGI. Really call too much attention to itself. I'm gonna give it another shot though. But crawley. The name of the demon character, which is based on the self styled, most evil or wicked man in the world, Alister Crowley, famous famous sexual predator heroin addict and egomaniac. They go doing have at parties. Do you in rituals in the middle of the great pyramid with his wife? Well, okay, that's that's true. I am being I am being a bit flippant about that. Because I think that guy gets more credit than he deserves blots, but in some circles, he is considered a pioneer. I've never done that. No, no. I would be surprised if you had, I don't know. It's just we can do an episode on that maybe I need to be more fair and come to terms with it. So the problem the problem is that at certain points in Crowley's life. And this is a little bit of a soapbox for me at certain points in Crowley's life. He demonstrably functions more as a con artist than a true believer in someone's thing. No. If you're not if you're a true believer in something, and you're not hurting people. It doesn't matter what someone else believes about it. You know what I mean? It's your decision. But if you are an acting harm on people who you know, have not agreed to be in your shenanigans, or if you are pretending to believe something that you do not believe for the purposes of bilking, the credulous, then what are you, you're not? You're not a leader of people. You're not you're not a holy being. You're, you're the same as anybody. Crooked game of three card Monty and just for the record the mercilus out, they look exactly the same just want to put that take. So Knowles holding this yet. I've got comics being the mercilus them. That's, that's an Ming the merciless, right? After after being but several other ones. Yeah because there, there are other characters that appear in. Oh, what's that flash, Gordon, comics? Because remember flash Gordon comment at swimming, the merciless from. Okay. Yeah, but there's, there's a predecessor the maybe I'm thinking of someone else because I swear that his predecessor maybe encyclopedia of super villains. I'm talking about in the movie in with Queen soundtrack. Oh, massed out of a university now. Oh, yeah. A good stuff. So in comparison to earn contrast rather, to the church of Satan, it flossy. There are theistic satanist, these are what we think about right if we're the average person we're thinking about what satanist is two members of this branch Satan is not just some cymbal, nor some clever useful metaphor, instead, Satan, is a genuine actual entity. These are the ones that you could refer to as devil, worshippers chur. Yeah. They might. Worship associated demons as well. Yeah. Different groups of the eight nece may have different interpretations about the nature of this being, but they all agree. It's real. It's similar in a way to the process church of the final judgement. How they would have some Lucifer's, and then they would have some where they sets or Satan's, I can't remember but they some worship this sort of light bringer permitting, aspect, and others. Worship this punishment and fascist aspect. So examples of this include things like the temple of set the golden girls, to the Maud of church of Satan, and then something called the order of nine angles also known as Owen a or Oneida, a, in a lot of the a lot of these sorts of self-styled organizations, just like Scientology or just like federal government agencies. There's a huge emphasis placed on the on initial 'isms. And acronyms. Let's talk about how they were founded, but let's you that after a quick word from our sponsor. I can't believe it that Gerald is presenting the quarterly budget report with finger puppets. Look, here comes one point seven percent decrease in finished overhead. I know everybody. No. I can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on car insurance guy. Go, you know, projected increase in organic, cute three revenue. Believe it. Geico could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. All right. We're back. Let's talk about the order of the nine angles. So according to, you know, one of the common story that you can see people in the order of the nine angles, which are we're gonna get into later. It's a bit hard as an outsider to discern. What is what as we'll find later in the episode within the order of nine angles, but of the things that are publicly facing in the virtual world. The common story is at the, the organization itself was founded sometime in the nineteen sixties. And then as it continued along. It started to gain more and more attention, especially in the nineteen eighties and a lot, a lot of it had to do with activism specifically Neo Nazi activism, which tied this group into its self described traditional satanism, right? At times, the order of the nine angles has been described as one of the world's most extremist and dangerous of. Botanic groups, and it's known for its support of far right? Militant movements overwhelmingly racially or religiously motivated, vice called it, the most secret of satanic groups as well, claiming that it advocates for animal sacrifice human sacrifice and reshaping the world higher to ones will. So what is the true story where does the order of nine angles come from, and how do the rumors stack up to the facts? Here's where it gets crazy. I version, according to their stories, very much like, like, like you said, Matt, I version, it's established in the nineteen sixties by this shady, lady, who's usually called, not an intentional rhyme. Usually called lady master, and she had previously, according to the story, the tale they spend been involved in a quote, secretive pre Christian tradition that survived in the Welsh marches of western England. So before the time or the rise of Christian ideology, there was this secret mystery religion and this, this person inherited the secrets passed down through through ritual through oral folklore through rights, and passages unbeknownst to the greater world and the owed nine A, or ONA believe that Satan is one of two aycock, casual beings, AAC, Hajjah will be a something. That is, is not dependent upon cause for to exist, something that sort of prefigures, the if then reality of human existence. These attornal beans are there, two of them going back to your thing about duality. Right. One is bath that was female in their mind. And one is Satan who has mail in their mind. And then in nineteen Seventy-three guy calling himself, Anton long was initiated into this group eventually attaining the title of grandmaster, and he really popularized. The group with other groups, because he was quite prolific. He was the Alexander Hamilton of his group. He he wrote wrote and wrote and wrote man, the kid is nonstop, etc. Other quotes from the Hamilton Broadway show because of this. You'll hear a lot of people say that he was really the de facto founder. It's suspected that the person. Was the original, they called her. The lady master eventually, had a child with a person calling themselves Anton long and relocated to Australia, at which point long began running the show. Hey, go. Yeah. You'll you'll find you'll find different versions of it one and this website called a cult dash study dot org. Talks about how it was Anton long who actually and again, this is probably likely from whoever's calling themselves like you said Ben into long from the on his own writings, essentially where he brought together three different groups essentially three different secret orders. The what is it knocked trillions, the temple of the sun in the Cam lad tradition that this guy, brought them all together in created this thing called, oh, nine a and, again, you'll find various versions of it throughout the internet rights, the, the expanded on the orders concepts and their ideas in all. All these publications which will get into, and they tied it into some. Oh, which we call it some, some contemporary politics of their time in nineteen eighty eight they made their journal, fin rear which was another was another sorta rung in the ladder of walking up to public prominence, which is what they always wanted with each publication this group sought to establish links with other Neo Nazi satanist groups, which are totally thing. And there, there are more than you might imagine. And by that, I mean, not just not just people who are being profiled, because are fans of metal but yeah, honestly, do consider themselves satanist. Yeah. And this is where we get into the full society and some Vigliotti strange occult, beliefs and actions of portions of the Nazi party, or at least some of the upper echelon of the Nazi part, I'm really glad that you. Mention that because the order at times has preferred to describe its ideology as Nazi occult, it's strange the way these things become a federal write. The names can be worn and discarded like a old jackets or reused in reshaped. And now in means, something completely different. Redefined, right. Yeah. Like you know that I mean that's also just a human thing. That's just a Monday and thing there is a magical power names for people who are adherents of, of those belief systems, but ticket to Neo liberal versus liberal, liberal means something, very different in the international sphere than it does here and the, the leading conservative party and Australia. For instance, Australia, just had an election as we're recording this, the leading conservative parties, the liberal party, I believe they go, I don't know names. What are they maybe they are all all jackets? So the order prefers describe itself. Well. Well, it's ideology rather, as Nazi occult. So that's promoting a supernatural system of thoughts that can Dem's liberal Judeo Judeo Christian society and longs for a new imperial age created by a sub niche in superman. Figure called the Vendex and that is not windex pronounced with a German accent. The index. The that's right. The that's true. Yeah, it is. And they Anton long to do that, right? Okay. S and ultimately, the idea is to expand to the stars and to bring this ideology outside of the terrestrial sphere. Yeah. I mean, that's it's an ambitious belief system. It sounds like they want to be stormtroopers. You know what I mean? Like full on the whatever the new order is in the new Star Wars systems if feels like that, to me when they also did some really disturbing stuff the way it's, it's tied up in, in this kind of love of fascism. And this, this again, I don't know how sincere it is this warship of characters like Adolf Hitler? So that's the first version, the second versions, a little different and dives into more mundane matters, according to observers and commentators, and you'll find a surprising amount of literature on this. There is no real Anton long. This is a pseudonym used by a British of former Neo Nazi David Miot. I think it's my it and why ATT who either use this organization to further his own ends, or created an elaborate hoax out of whole cloth. Yeah. He's known in Britain for being a hard line national socialists or Neo Nazi advocating national socialism as well as violence in the past. He's been implicated in physical beatings of people. And usually when these sorts of characters are implicated in violence, the attack in packs. You know what I mean? So like a group of people jumping, a single person, the Oneida grabbed national attention and the global war on terror when the organization was second, or even third hand associated with series of murders. So Venezuela wanted to, you know, move up get some more. Things like not really infiltrate just bring in other groups who to grow their own ranks. Right. So they attempted to infiltrate some of these non Tannock Nazi groups, or Neo Nazi movements such as there's one specifically mentioned in several publications called the atom Waffen division, which often the atom of whatever it is. Adam Kaufman division, and it's a US based organization and this group at least it's affiliates killed five people in two thousand seventeen and two thousand eighteen so this is recent. This is very recent. And it is a real group is just sounds, it sounds odd from the law enforcement side of things. The all this Assa Terek, an occult ritual, doesn't really matter anymore than, say, like a gang initiation or some kind of really heavy hazing. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Because they're not going to. It's useful in that it can identify members of an organization, but to them, you know, imagine if your job is the stop organized crime and gang killings, you want to learn about these groups so that you can to some degree predict and prevent particular behavior and prevent further criminal acts, but you're not, you know, odds are if you're if you're in the FBI or something, you're not going to stay up at night worrying that these people may curse you, you're more concerned about whether they have access to firearms and explosives. It's a, you know, it's, it's kind of more grounded or Monday and look at this, however, do have to say on the side. No, I did find to freedom of information act request to the FBI about this order of nine angles, and in both cases, the FBI responded by saying that they searched and they didn't have anything Ligo. So maybe they're. Not a victim. I don't know my it for for his own his own. Right. Has also. In addition to deny things like the holocaust denied that he ever went by the name Anton long. He also went through interational where he practiced as a Buddhist monk, and then he embraced radical Islam praising al-qaeda and attempting to unite Nazis and Islam ick terrorist. That's nightmare material. That's a odd couple, isn't it? Yeah. And seems strange. Right. But so, so we already see in the origins of this thing there, there is a bit of duplicity. The question is, whether it's purposeful or whether it's just kinda bungling you know what I mean. How much of this has meant to be taken seriously, how much of it is meant to be believed? I think we mentioned a little bit about their process. You mentioned vindicates what, what about the, the rest of their beliefs. What what's their plan? Yeah. So they believe that civilization. One has to be destroyed from within completely undermined, and disassembled dismantle, so the adherence are actually encouraged to be pretty awful people like as a, you know, part of their whole prescribed course of making this happen. So that includes things like committing crimes random acts of violence sexual assaults and even this whole like genocide kind of idea calling human victims. They also embrace magic. They do share that same commonality that we had mentioned at the top right of, but wh when we talk about their magic whoa. What are we? What are we talking about? I guess that's part of why they're called the order of the nine angles. All right. You ready for this? I got this from oh nine eight dot org and it's just a post to there and it's talking about what the nine angle is actually represents says, quote there, nine angles referred to the nine combinations of the three basic L chemical substances mercury sulphur, so. Salt and these nine angles slash combinations were first outlined in this text is nine hundred nineteen seventy four is called emanations of Ranya, Iranian Urania, who knows. And these nine combinations can be used to symbolize how the causal and a causal are manifest to us as, for instance, in our psyche the next, John of causal, a causal that we are via archetypes personality types, and it just goes on with stuff that I honestly, I'm struggling to understand, and a lot of this. A lot of writing in this fear whether's hawking left, hand path right him path stuff does tend to be a little bit up to the they also practice something that they call the sevenfold way. So the sevenfold way is a series of steps meant to make someone a, a practical master of all forms of sorcery physically mentally fit. In this way is divided into these seven stages. The stages are neophyte initiate external adept internal adept master of temple or mistress averse grand master or grand mistress. And of course, it, mortal sometimes initiates are described or called novices and adept cer- called presort priestess, it goes on. Mejias midgets drought. Also known as heb Hebdomadal, every does that our word for today, Matt dommage, ry, or the sevenfold way. How does it? How does it spelt? HEB DOM AD are y now. Right. Someone used that in a sentence, and call us. So strange. We look at this because what, what we're seeing quickly becomes a rabbit hole of a colts philosophy of working, again tied in very much like the whole society or Tuli society to these to these race based beliefs and. What, what we pointed out, however, should already be pretty disturbing than the purpose here for the members of the society by their own statements are to destroy what we know of as civilization up to an including human sacrifice, which they do talk about at length in which differentiates them from a lot of other satanic groups. Let's, let's pause for a moment for word from our sponsors. And then assuming that we have not been killed via magical means, let's explore a little bit more about the work. This episode is brought to you by Cox. With contour TV from Cox. You can find all your favorites. All in one place. Does it have the YouTube, you Bet El what about that? Netflix thing Netflix, too. And although superhero movies, contour has all the latest titles on demand. Oh my grandkids love that big green guy, though. I prefer the one with the hammer myself. Okay. I think we're done here now. Get all your favorite apps shows and movies, right? On contour TV from Cox. We made it we're still here. Yes, no one has gotten us by magical, psychic or more. Traditional means. So that's good. Let's check on Paul. Yep. He's there. He's intact. All right. Foof good. I don't know what is is turned all black. But, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's call the Monday. It's monday. More of a cosmetic thing. Yeah, yeah. These kids these days. So they're not this group is the order of nine angles is not known for subtlety especially, so they have a book called the black book of Satan comes in three volumes. These are considered so extreme that they're kept in a special section of the British library, or they're not available to the general public. You have to ask for them at a counter research, purposes. Kind of thing that's because these books repeatedly talked about the idea of, of calling committee acts of violence and destabilization up to an. Luding terrorism and with, with active culling. What's fascinating is one of the steps that they're, they're told to do is to groom someone to voluntarily submit to being sacrificed, that's the alternate the ultimate coup there. And they also have a an interesting work study program for lack of a better term that they send their members on. Would you believe it looked up the black book of say on Amazon, and there's one paperback available used for eight hundred sixty four dollars. Yeah, I would believe that I guess they're hard to get a hold of that happens with a lot of a cult books. Yeah. I mean I it may be too. This one has someone as either like bilking someone or they have multiple copies and they're just putting them out, one at a time I saw that before. I you know, I wonder if anybody does have a copy of the black book of Satan, I found a free download PDF on a called boards dot com. I'm sure it's the real deal. I don't know yet. Right. Getting a PDF of the black book of Satan, I laugh at the fair. So let's get into what is required of Owen a- members who were going along that sevenfold path trying to get into one of the noxius or whatever they're called that works study. I was mentioning exactly one of these one of these cells, essentially, so they, they want people to spend six months, either just traveling hitchhiking the way you would a traditional traveler along that path working as either a burglar, maybe working, even as a police officer or infiltrating some, some version of an extremist political group where you're just kind of roaming, and in working inside one of these other organizations to things that connect with this. This is very inspiring for any of us. Horror writers in the audience there used to be a television show. Maybe the nineties rarely two thousand that was sort of the scary Thalji show called the hitchhiker and remember that. And the, the hitchhiker, the frame was that someone picks up the hitchhiker and terrible stuff happens. Yeah. Which was, which was gold. But it makes me it makes you see how appealing this could be to people who are fearmongers in the nine hundred eighty nine hundred ninety Tanic panic scare here in the United States, we could say, Satan after all around, you there, low level criminals, there hitchhikers. They're living off the grid. You know, they're going to rainbow gatherings or, you know, they're hopping trains, voiding the spotlight of mainstream America. And with the fact that, you know, that seems like that seems like just some something people would say to sell headlines, right? Or get people to tune into. Sixty minutes or something. But here we have a real group say, yes, go do this for six months. Yeah. Yeah. It, especially what baffles me is thinking that at least on this list. Where was mentioned seeing a police officer would be a good route for this, and I guess, it's because you're, you're essentially practicing power over others. I guess they're reasons to that a police officer would be I think on on that list. Yeah. In one in one passage, they said, do something that is far outside your previous life experience. But working in law enforcement will give you a Liam Niessen, esque, certain set of skills, they go, you know, for physical altercation tactical thinking, or that yet, and that's something we kinda talked about before. And this will we're mentioning that sevenfold path that you go down to join this group, you, it is about the psychological. It's about the empowering that it's about empowering. You psychically. It's about empowering. You physically and all these things. So I guess a police officer would be a really good. Way to get there in from their literature. This has. This is where I want. You guys think of this. So from their literature. They attempt to quote undertake the role of extreme political activists and so- champion heretical views by becoming involved in extreme right-wing, activism. They demand this one of their introductory books. They say quote, the aim is to express fanaticism in action, ex and be seen by all right. Thinking people as extremists and dangerous. So they want to be the people who are, I don't know, if feels to me like they're talking about edginess for the sake of edginess, you know, like they're going to bust into an outright meeting, and someone's going to say, well, you know, I just I just don't think we should they're going to bust into a tea party meeting. Maybe let's make even more innocuous and they'll say I don't think we should pay taxes, and they're like, yeah, dishes, we should burn all the money. Yeah. Yeah. And everybody's like, oh, those guys are dangerous. So, so they're they've kinda got this idea of, again, very, very motivated by racism. They've kinda got this idea similar to joker in the dark night where they the heath ledger, joker the Goodwin where they want to just so chaos indiscriminately. But unlike the joker who is a it was a fictional character exists, only to spread chaos for the sake of chaos itself. This group seeks to spread chaos to make it easier to propagate their twisted world and cosmic view MO so we see that strange tragically not necessarily alien marriage of ideology here. The Nazis and the so-called Satan uniting to pursue goals that are at least non mutually exclusive. So for the Oneida fascism is actually seen as. A means to an end rather than an end in and of itself, particularly, this idea of a sinister dialect, that's the key to the Jahic evolution of human civilization into a higher form. But the Meiji in Nasreen, distortion, also known as the Christians, and the Jews is holding back western civilization, according to this doctrine from reaching its final step. Some sort of evolutionary step and must be overthrown. If humanity is to advance, so holy war or unholy war. Absolutely. The vision here goes to that thing that you mentioned earlier been. Vi-. Vindicates. Yes. Right. Being led by vindicates deep into the cosmos. Where were mentioned, though, establish a galactic Reich to champion and make known our unique human destiny of galactic exploration, and the colonization of outer space, this is from the drek and Wade. D. R. E. C C. I A N. We're not recommending that you check out these books. We're just letting you know that these are these are the. The tenants the goals and the aims as self described by this by this organization. Oh, yeah. And they, they really do want to, you know, it's, it's this concept at least of creating a sinister world. And, but here's the thing in order to have the world, be sinister. You gotta make the people that are living in that world or controlling running that world sinister. So they think this can happen through what they call the practice of genuine, modern heresies. I I like that. I don't need to poke fun out of it genuine modern Harrises. And this is, you know, again, taking yourself the individual person through all of these mental and physical trials that, you know, well, you're going through mental physical trials. And at the same time you're also practicing magic with a K so ritual ization things you're basically, I don't know. You're, you're honing. In your cell phone all possible fronts to become evil. I guess, in a way or maybe, maybe not the word evil is correct here, but to do the things that the group wants to do. Well, here's a question, do you think people that are adherence to this kind of belief system? Do they see themselves as evil? That's interesting in some in some cases, there would be people associating with this because they want to they want to be seen as evil. It don't they just think that the path of Satan is the better path. Many probably do. Yeah. Just wondering if even if good and evil even enters into it at this point, when, when it comes to your thinking behind getting behind something like this, I guess, that's why I was hesitant to use the term. I guess when I when I mean is adversarial to the status quo, and, or the, the ways in which society are set up and the institutions that hold that society up. I'm just getting all big picture about it. And my head is just inch. To think about the nature of good Nevil and his does true evil really see itself that way, or do they just believe that they're actually doing what's best? It's an interesting question because in many cases. Yeah. In many cases, all great villains are the heroes of their own stories. Right than say doing terrible things. But I'm doing it for greater reason. Right. And they're, you know, people have to die, but the world will be better etcetera etcetera, the, the thing. That's interesting about some the'stick satanism, and why it can be so attractive to people who are already involved in something that, that puts the bulk of its emphasis on violence in the short term is the there's not too much of a leap to go to something else, like this, and one thing, that's interesting about the question about regarding seem oneself as good or evil is that you can get a little bit of a sense, not a rely not one hundred percent reliable since you can get. A little bit of a sense of how someone sees themselves by what emphasis they place on things. Do they place the emphasis on their alternate end goal vision? Is that like seventy percent of this? You know, my most many religion spend seventy percent or so of their time talking about how to be a decent person now. Right. Or do they spend the majority of their time talking about the violent things? They will do to get a vaguely explain thing in the past, right? Or in sorry in the future. Yes. Yes. Yes. I mean that's to me. It's tough because it probably varies case by case. But I'm sure in satanism. There are a few people who think I am evil. I embrace it on the son of the beasts whatever and they probably really believe it. Maybe they misled whatever does it for you is what I say, like the beginning of the show, if you if you can use religion and maybe not realistically murder people. But if this does it for you, you know, being evil or the idea of? Being evil and you're not going to, you know, call an entire population than I say more power to you. But unfortunately, this particular idea involves a lot of these random acts of murder and rape, and violence stuff doing unto the innocent, some can't get behind the can't get behind the nine eight here, guys, sorry cannot throw my endorsement this, this order, which is weird because it was your pitch. And I think it was interesting because I, I had never heard of this. And this leads us to maybe one of our bigger questions, which we always have to ask with these sorts of groups is case of Seaton's military, satanic army, or is it a case, more of internet bravery? You know, the, the order has been referred to as Satan's military, but it seems more accurate to say that the order or the people who claim to be involved with it, because we can't verify a whole bunch of people seems accurate to say that they are maybe militant in attitude, more than organized and violent in person because of the crimes that can be reasonably traced Oneida affiliates. And partner organizations seem to be crimes that were sort of egged on by the group, but not enacted by the group directly and the oh nine. A was also wants dismissed by other occultist as the order of no members because this one guy David, my, and I think another guy they moult. Appeared to be the only visible figures within the organization. So how much of it is just them writing prolifically under different names note. I mean, the student aspect. I mean see at work here. But again, we didn't point this out already a little bit. But we have noticed and it's been documented their growth is I this Oneida growth has been right alongside other. I guess what we would call right wing extremist groups. Sure. Yeah. Yes. Premises organizations would be a big one neo-nazi organizations. And this is led to a couple of really strange conspiratorial thoughts, one being, there was actually some infighting between members of white supremacy groups and members of this Oneida eighth thing because there were people saying look guys up just here because I'm a white supremacist that, all like all this weird hocus pocus stuff. I'm we've lost. We've lost our way out of the game. And everyone's like, oh, well that guy doesn't get it. And then someone else said, you know, I feel like I also fall more on the. Supremacy now side and link the magic stuff's cool, like, don't get me wrong. Dude. I love metal or whatever I'm not I'm not knocking metal I am not getting racist, but I'm not knocking metal. It does make me feel a little bit sad for the people who joined up because they were all about that. Magic and all about the that stuff. And they realized this is a separatist group. Yeah. Right. There are other people who, who said, I thought we were just doing rituals. Yeah. I mean, I'm down for our vernal Lord and master. But I feel like our Lord master should be an equal opportunity employer. So I mean, we're, we're making a little bit of light of this. But it's, it's, it's a dangerous thing when we see this connection of ideologies, and these people are conspiring in secret. We don't know. We don't know how much of it is just a bluff. And bluster on the nine a part, we don't know how much of even to some degree is taken seriously, while the people. Is it an elaborate hoax? There's lot writing out there. But again, it's not as, if there is a center that you can visit, you know, there's not there's not a power structure that is readily apparent to a lot of people, and perhaps, that's just kept it internal we do know that at this point, the organization is still considered to be out there, but the views it has spouses, have of mainly caught the attention of law enforcement and governments because of the actions of its Phillies, white supremacist hard, right wing. Terror groups terrorist groups at a two thousand three UNESCO conference in Paris concerning the growth of anti-semitism in Europe and abroad. The stated David Maya the leading hardline Nazi intellectual Britain since the sixties who may be with what is it and Bon on long has converted to Islam. This was true at the time he praised bin Laden and al-qaeda. He called the nine eleven tax and active heroism here for the killing of all, like all Jewish people. And he also he used another name abilities. Iban miot. He supported suicide missions. He has one of the most thorough English language defenses of that he urged young Muslims to take up violent jihad, which is not any, any actual Muslim will tell you that the kind of thing he's calling jihad is not jihad observers warn that he's a dangerous, man. But since two thousand. Thousand ten he claims to have changed. He says, I've rejected his Lomb my extremist past and guys. It's all about love and each other. That's what he says now. But the extremism seems to carry on the question now is, whether it's legitimate, whether the people who claim to believe it online actually practice it in person or some of proposed as the entire thing a hoax. Is that a government front to monitor right wing groups? Let us know what you think that's the most promising for me, or the, the most silver lining answer for me. It's a front group of some sort of this trying to stop some of these other organizations, but people still got killed so they must not be doing that great of a job. Yeah. You know, you, you're probably right. So what do you guys think front or legitimate, like splinter group of real deal? Satanism let us know. You can hit us up on our Facebook group. We are called. Here's where it gets crazy. That's really the funnest way to interact with the show if you. Ask me a lot of members on their posting responses to every episode like message board style posting all kinds of memes and topics. It's just a good group of folks, and you could reach out and just give us. You know, if you've had any interaction with his group whatsoever. If you have any personal stories that, you are, are not the, you don't mind telling us. Yeah. Reach reach out to us for sure about that stuff. You can give us a call. Like we said at the top one eight three three as TD w y TK. It goes right into the hands of us particularly to my phone. So whenever you feel like calling it doesn't matter what time it is. It'll it won't ring. But it will say, hey you got a message, she's true. Yeah, you gotta set up like that. Yeah. Last night, I got a ton of messages came to set us can can everybody get notification? Yeah. If you guys download ringcentral line and use it don't want to burden just you it that we should we should share the wealth? We'll shoulder that for your time. I'm a bit behind. So need to. We had had so many Greek messages to actually texted, if people back and I thought that I listen to my office. It was a lot of fun. They're not gonna call in. I mean, there I was just an amer- listening to the messages. They're fantastic could've taken are left are, you know, commentary with the messages, which is great. Just as a quick story, we one person called in on Friday while I was in the hotel it was at night. And I was working on actually, I was looking over the ridiculous history outlined been that you sent and this person left four messages in a row and the fourth one that he sent was about monster energy and how, maybe there's out maybe some group out there is trying to control us with monster energy, and it was while I was finishing one and it really did give me the I don't know the field what is that? He gave me the spine tingling feeling. Maybe someone is trying to control that maybe as you. That would be monstrous. You can also find us on Instagram. You can also find us on Twitter. Hey, might be saying, hey, toe that social media stuff. It's twenty nineteen. I'm scared of phones. All I do is use Email them. Boy, have we got good news for you. You can Email us directly. We are conspiracy at iheartradio dot com. Stuff. They don't want you to know is a production of I heart radio. How stuff works for more podcasts from iheartradio. Visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. When we started this show I had read a lot of true crime. I thought I knew what I was getting into. But I wasn't prepared to stop sleeping. And for those all too real monsters. Visit me in my nightmares from iheartradio and ten or foot TV monster presents insomniac. Listen and subscribe to monster presents insomniac at apple podcasts on the iheartradio app or ever. You listen to podcasts.