20 Episode results for "David Miller"

Genetically Modified Salmon A Step Closer To Your Dinner Plate

Dishin' Digital

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Genetically Modified Salmon A Step Closer To Your Dinner Plate

"Dish in digital brought to you by b n h new york's ultimate camera superstore it could be coming soon to a restaurant or a supermarket near you genetically modified salmon after clearing final fc regulatory hurdles in indiana aqua farming complexes complex is incubating the first genetically modified animals for human consumption in the u s david miller is with the university of cambridge he says it lennick salmon is injected with dna from other fish allows and talent to cry year round which means instead taking three three full size and that's what is it safe greg jaffe is with the center for science in the public interest has reviewed the safety data around the genetic engineering salmon i determined that there is no food safety nutritional difference between

new york david miller greg jaffe indiana university of cambridge
COVID-19 and children in care

The Current

00:00 sec | 4 months ago

COVID-19 and children in care

"I'm Jonathan Goldstein host of wiretap each week. You're invited to listen in on my telephone conversations whether funny, sad, wistful or even slightly strange. You never know just what you might hear on wiretap I show I didn't think that people actually listened to it. The breath your genius, it's not just that you're funny, but you can be cripplingly pointedly depressing. The wiretap archives available on CBC. Listen spotify, apple podcasts and wherever you get your podcasts. Is a CBC podcast. There's some of our most vulnerable children kids in foster care, and for many of them and their families. The physical distancing restrictions of this pandemic are making life even harder. David Miller is a child. Protection lawyer in Toronto David Good Morning. Good Morning. This pandemic mentioned has been difficult on all of us. Tell us a little bit of what's Kids in care are going through. How much access have those children had with birth families during this difficult time? So in in mid March, when the endemic was really taking hold, and the state of emergency was declared in Ontario most children's aid societies across the province suspended all in person family access for children and care, and it was, it was a blanket suspension, or for all families whose for all children, no exceptions. So most children in foster care they didn't see their parents face to face it through the end of March through April through May. this month. It started to open up with them in person access but there are still many children who have yet to see their parents in person. Since this started. What's what we're talking? About two or three months. What's the effect? Of that in the short term, but also in the long term. So. This causes harm. When we stop killing from having meaningful relationships with their parents, it's a it's a trauma to them. That's their the the parent child attachment it's that's where they get their source of safety and security. and when they lose that that's that's that's a trauma, definitely short-term, but there can even be long-term permanent effects so the. The they have been providing brutal access for the for for children. So that that can be helpful for older children so through facetime skype, or what's that those kinds of programs? Because older children they often maintain their their their connections through through texting video calls they. They live online. They live in social media but for for young children for babies for infants They need in person contact to form and maintain attachments with their parents. Video actresses virtually meaningless, these restrictions were put in in the midst of a public health crisis, and we've seen the effect of them across the spectrum you have. People who are unable to see their family. We have people who are. Reaching the end of life and they're being kept apart from from loved ones. All of this is done to prevent the virus from spreading. Why should these cases that you're talking about an and work that you do in child protection? Why should that be any different? Might be less troubled by the how how to foster. Kids are being treated the children in foster care it all Ontario children were being treated that way, but but they're not. For. For Children of divorced and separated families, the presumption has been children should see both parents Because, we recognize the importance of of child relationships with both parents and especially in a time of crisis. There's there's every time you see someone else. Yes, there is extra risk what I'm. What what I advocate for involved extra risk to maintain that fundamental parent child relationship, but there's also extra risk. To go to the grocery store. There's extra risk with respect to everyone who was going to work at what were deemed essential services. and. In my view parenting, the parent child relationship should be essential service. You have also raised concerns about What's been happening? WHOA when it comes to changes at the government made around foster homes in the midst of this pandemic just briefly outline those concerns. So the concerns about The foster homes is that there was. When this all started! they were concerned. Some foster parents did not keep the children that they had they would. They did not want the children to be there. Due to the extra risk. Perhaps they had their own health problems or someone older in their home. most would not take. In and probably more most importantly, many foster parents said if there's access to the parents by child, they wouldn't keep the child so. That the government loosen the standards to have foster homes taking children. They allowed foster homes to take in more children than before they allowed inspections to be done virtually so through the telephone by video with not having not having not going to the foster home, they allowed health. Assessments of people who were the foster parents or people who worked in the foster homes They wouldn't need those those health because there were some difficulty to get them during during that period of time since so standards were loosened. Which? Led to it being a less safe environment for children, the Ministry of Children, community, and social services in the province of Ontario Cintas a statement that reads in part children's aid. Societies and residential licensees are still required to meet all legislative regulatory and policy requirements that protect the safety and wellbeing of children that includes things like safety assessments for places, of safety and physical inspections of the home conducted in person, or are you confident? That is as the site starts to up. Some of those checks will be put back in place. I I. Certainly Hope So. I certainly hope so. Things are opening up now I'm seeing it I am seeing it in access in person access to starting so I'm hoping to seem opening up will apply to the foster homes as well. As we go into phase two I guess I'm I guess. I'm I'm also concerned. What if there's another wave all? This starts again. For, those bastards David Miller good to speak with you about this, thank you. Thanks. Matt David Miller Child Protection Lawyer in Toronto. He's on the board of the Interior. Association of Child Protection Lawyers. Kevin Harris has been listening in. He's a foster parent and president of the Canadian foster family. Association Kevin Good Morning to you. Your morning. What is this experience in this pandemic been like for your foster child. Well, I, think some of what David had shared is very relevant far for all kids in Cara, the the opportunity in the need for kids to. How that relationship with the with their biological family is important as far as. As, just keeping them connected in helping them through their life experiences, and so for us our our children, our long-term with us, but we still try to maintain family connections, and so not being able to. Allow that in person. does create a little bit of angst and anxiety for for kids and I think you know we make decisions based upon fear. as David kind was alluding to Maybe not always are the the best decisions made for those for our kids that are are going through this Dislikes situation. There's a cultural imperative to that connection. I mean you. You want to say obviously connected to birth parents, but. Many kids and we know that indigenous children black children are over represented in the larger picture of foster children, and there is an important thing keeping those cultural connections alive. Can those be disrupted in a moment like this? Oh, absolutely we. We found that with our children and one of them being indigenous and being able not able to go into the community with all of the suspension of the various cultural. Celebrations, and gatherings does create that disconnection so for us. It was important for our our our child to be able to participate in powers and those types of cultural activities that take place, because it's important for us that routes, and making that connection with family in in those. Instances and so yeah, it's it's difficult because we missing out on those things which were for us, it was an important part of life experiences, and so we're hoping some of might come back later on, but at this point in time even sporting. Being going into the communities are restricted, so if you're not living in the community, then you again for health reasons, they're not allowing anybody commend so that creates a little bit of of again anxiety for I wish I could see my grandfather's or my aunt from my own kids and again the fear that David raised is that this could come back? We could be in for a second wave of this so in the last minute or so that we have. What would you recommend? Governments do differently if we have to go back into lockdown. Good question I think it's. Trying to find ways to keep our kids connected true. There's virtual, but you know providing personal protective equipment for for families. I think is important I'm not sure that that was done throughout. All of the jurisdictions whether that was provided again giving giving access to that for the children and the posture care system, but also for the foster parents as well, and and then trying to encourage Safeway's of connecting to them. Physical Paci, visual visual touch is really important for for building relationships. Coming to speak with you about, but good luck, thank you. Thank you Kevin. Harris is a foster parent and the president of the Canadian Foster Family Association. He was in Scotland. Throughout the nineteen eighties, a strange phenomenon with sweeping North America. They were in a panic and like people in a panic they want solutions allegations of underground satanic cults, torturing and terrorizing children. The thing is. There were no satanic cults preying on children and nearly thirty years later. The people touched by it all are still picking up the pieces. To Work of fiction. This is a work of history. Satanic panic. The latest. Cover. Available now. I'm Alina hundreds. Lyle and I'm her than the Rodwell and we're the hosts of inappropriate questions. Did you lose weight? How're you doing? How'd you get pregnant Dr People? Who have been off these questions we ask where these questions come from, and we learned some more respectful of been curious. Whether, you've asked an inappropriate question or been asked an appropriate question gum. Get inappropriate with us. Inappropriate questions is available now you can find it on the CBC. Listen APP or wherever you find podcasts. There have been hardships as you heard from many foster children during the pandemic, but at this might have actually presented an opportunity for others. You may have heard the term aging out. It means that kids in care get to an age where they stopped being able to access the same resources they used to rely on quite suddenly. They are left without a support system. The pandemic has changed some of that Shan. Ratnam is a child advocate and the CO founder and Executive League of the Ontario. Advancement Coalition Schon good morning to you. Hi Not. Thank you for having me today. Thanks for joining us. Tell me just briefly about aging out and from your own experience. What that's like. Yeah, so aging out basically means that the at the age of eighteen you are cut off from the system. Even the terminology of aging out is problematic, because we're not voluntarily aging out into adulthood or back into the community and so you know, and just to clarify as well before I go further into this I heard the other seekers utilize, and also just a segment utilize the term foster care and I think that. That that needs to be addressed as well we shouldn't be utilizing foster care as an umbrella term for the child welfare sister system, because it raises the inequities and different system realities, young people from cheating facilities group homes, etc, and you know in my experience of aging out I was so scared when I was turning eighteen, because I had created such amazing relationships with people and staff within my group homes, so I grew up. Up In, group homes, and so aging out with such a variety spills face for me but even still like you know when we're talking about the current pandemic for Covid, nineteen before this pandemic even began there has been a pandemic in the province of Ontario and across the nation and dot pandemic is that these age indicators of age cutoff by the systems of forcing young people at the age of eighteen to grow. Grow a Cape or wings and go out, and how can you be by? Themselves has been pandemic because they enter the floodgates into pipelines, such a homelessness poverty meant to help systems hospitalization, the adult prison system at setup, and we also know that statistically speaking in southern Ontario black people and families are disproportionately represented in the child welfare system and in northern Ontario for example, indigenous young people are overrepresented in the system and so. Given that what happens in in the pandemic because there was a big change and the change could actually benefit. It seems strange to say, but the change in pandemic could actually benefit some of these people. Yes, so the moratorium was actually a very important step and people who say that the moratorium is useless. The are completely wrong because they're not looking at it. From the critical Lens, the Moratorium Stopped Age cut offs at eighteen, but also for the care maintenance benefits that you get after. The age of twenty one as well and so because the freezing happen. Young people are still able to access the benefits that they were before, and also they were in safe spaces, and around people that they trusted during a pandemic instead of being by themselves and navigating the system and the community by themselves amid pandemic. Is there the possibility that that could continue after the pandemic? Me Is the possibility that that could continue after the pandemic that it's not just a temporary moratorium, but this leads to a change in that aging process. This is something that we're hoping for however, the problem. Is that right now? The system is based on age indicators, and we cannot go back to that system. We need to be dismantle some deconstruct that system and do a reset, and so, what does the reset really mean? What can it look to us and other advocates as well the reset look like a whole new system that is not based on age indicators. It should be based on readiness indicators, and so, what is your indicator writing? This indicator is based on whether the young person at this point of turning eighteen is ready to be independent and. And if they're not what are some indicators to show US up there being prepared to be able to go into the community, but himself to be independent and successful some indicators can be having a better social support system, and this is not just about the number of people around them. It's about the quality of people around them as well for ambitious young people for example one of the things that I've heard from indigenous young people to Pacific is that when they're in the child welfare system, they seldom are connected to elders who are able to provide elder ship and knowledge keepers and so. Our our and business young people connected before the age of as well Another thing is, have they been? You know assisted with documentation. That's important, not every young person within the child. welker system is a Canadian citizen, and we often forget that there are people without status in limbo status Reggie status, and so we do not want to cut off. From the child welfare system and happened goes to community without status. So how are we supporting people in terms of getting that documentation done? Using this as a moment, you see this as an opportunity, this is a crucial vital moment where we can really make impactful meaningful change and not just go back the system that was never working. This has been an ongoing issue. People have been homeless or aging out of the system I. Know People who have died aging out of the system. We need change right now, and we cannot afford to go back to a system in terms of. In terms of supporting young people Ontario's children. We need something different. We need something based on readiness and not age indicators, and we need something that really legislates and really incorporate kindness and quote. Unquote love what we're doing. When we treat people like family, we do not feel them. Through this moment it feels as though some things are being revealed, and we're learning about parts of society that perhaps people were not aware of or they took some of those systems for granted now whether it comes to income whether it comes to how we treat people who are temporary foreign workers, or who is in the child welfare system, and how they're treated as they age, this is one of those learning opportunities will see whether it seized upon China's good to speak with you about the thank you. Gift Is a child advocate. She's also co founder of the Interior. Children's advancement coalition and she was in Scarborough Ontario. For more CBC podcasts. Go to CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.

Ontario Matt David Miller David Miller Toronto Kevin Harris David Good Ministry of Children Association of Child Protectio Jonathan Goldstein president Canadian Foster Family Associa spotify Kevin Good Safeway China US Scarborough Ontario
Why Water Matters: A Global Expert Explains its Importance in Life and the Future of Work

The Tightrope with Dan Smolen

00:00 sec | 6 months ago

Why Water Matters: A Global Expert Explains its Importance in Life and the Future of Work

"When I started my career I worked for gentlemen. David Miller named the company Guarantee Miller and he said if you want a career in water it last forever a last year lifetime because it's a public health issue spun in Smolin. And this is the tight rope. Podcast we tell stories of people who are defining the future of work. Our guests walked the tightrope away from meaningless toil and towards work that is profound protects. The Planet Empowers people and is fun to do meaningful work. The stories that our guests tell and the insights that they provide will inspire you to connect with work and experiences that stoke your passions and make the world a better place for the future of work is meaningful work. Oh Planet is covered. Mostly water scarcity of clean potable water remains the planet's biggest problem. This week on the tight rope. Podcast WE MEET WILL. Sarney will has built an impressive career as a world recognized expert on water. His mission is to help people and companies ensure access to clean water. We cover a lot of ground in this episode. We'll describes his early love of water including surfing that influenced his decision to build a lifelong career in water. We also discussed the impact of global water scarcity new technologies that help improve access to good quality. Water supplies will S- thoughts on future report careers in water and has just launched podcast which is aptly called the stream. We spoke with Wilson Arnie earlier. This week over zoom welcome to the tightrope rope. Dan Thank you. Thanks for reaching out my pleasure. You are founder and CEO of the water foundry. What is that and what is its mission. Sure so what is water foundry? You're not the first and won't be the last person to ask. What does that mean? So we are an advisory firm Which is a polite way of saying consulting so we work for. Us non US multinationals on helping them build where refine their corporate water strategy. Work which in some cases includes quantifying business value at risk and how to mitigate the risk and We do quite a bit of work. For what technology startups an early growth stage companies that are involved in solving water scarcity and quality challenges and then in the middle we worked for non-governmental organizations foundations development banks investors that intersect with both multinationals and innovative technology companies? And were based. Here on. Denver's you know. Our work is international. Maybe half the work is for. Us technology multinational companies and investors. So what pivoted you to a career in water? I grew up in New York. City in Queens. And this'll sound crazy but I used to surf so I went to the beach a lot and I got hooked on not just the beach but Otani graffiti and I thought I wanted to go into oceanography Ian got degrees in Earth and environmental sciences and Fortunately when I was getting my graduate degree I got a job with groundwater consulting firm on Long Island and got hooked on freshwater so as much as I enjoy the ocean I became passionate about ensuring access to safe drinking water cleaning up contaminated water so anything related to freshwater became a passion and I was very much. I worked for a company where I learned something new every day. We were the early days of dealing with things. Like superfund programs continuing to do what supply work so little bit of walk a little bit of passion and kept me going for the past several decades. I think I mentioned this to you. Once ten years ago I had the opportunity to sit in on a meeting of family office managers in for our listeners. Family office managers sometimes manage the assets of people like the heirs of big fortunes like the Rockefeller Search for Hedge Fund traders who got out of the business and want to manage your assets so ten years ago. I'm at of meeting will at a hotel in old Greenwich Connecticut and I got to sit in the room. And listen to the pitches that these manager Scott from Oh everything from cleantech to well you name it. And they're kind of rolling their eyes until some guy stood up and started talking about water and they all sat up in their seats and one of them said to me. This is the new oil and I was stunned by that. Is What are the new oil? So now actually. Because we see the the fate that oil is experiencing right now and the reason I say now is that there's no alternative to water and water is not fungible a gallon or leader of water in one place is not the same as it is elsewhere. Oil Can be replaced. There are alternatives to it and a gallon or a leader of oil is pretty much the same anywhere in terms of what it will deliver. So it's not but in terms of a growth opportunity Investment Opportunity. Things like that then. Store water is a hot topic. Significant trend absolutely critical resource. Not JUST FOR PERSONAL. Use hydration but Sanitation scene can't make anything without it. If you're a beer drinker but you know folks in the beer world say no water no beer and that captures the mind of beer drinkers pretty quickly. It's really not oil but I understand the intent of the comment. So let's talk about people. What happens to people when clean water becomes scarce in what happens to economies that don't have access to plentiful freshwater so we saw this number of years ago in California the American West during an I take the word drought and all my white later? But what are scarcity had an impact to the state economy the regional economy so again it goes back to the economic value of water along with Social Impacts. It really does impact a state region country. Gdp World Bank published a report a few years ago that looked and quantified actually the economic impact of water scarcity from climate change and. They reported that in in some parts of the world that could be a negative six percent. Gdp Hip Salads. It's very real. You know one of the really fascinating and important things about water is that as an economic dimension which we're talking about an environmental piece which benign think we understand but you know social on a spiritual dimension to it so if you don't have water than there was a very real social impact and potentially spiritual impact to and we tend not to pay attention to that we don't value. It is much as we might economic impacts. Why is that? Why don't we value it the way we should Well there are a number of things that have become increasingly. Important that we neglect. We don't value water because look in the US for the most part water is almost free. It's reliable in terms of quantity there. Twenty four seven. It's safe except when it's not you get things like Flint Michigan. There's a real push to keep prices incredibly low because no one wants to increase tariffs song water that politics because a big part of it you know and also water. It's invisible how many people see water infrastructure on a daily basis. We have a better shot at seeing power infrastructure than water. It's this invisible resource run by invisible professionals. That are they're doing what they do. I remember years ago seeing a documentary. Espy twenty twenty five years ago about New Jersey which I guess is the most densely populated state in the United States and a talked about Kate May and about how they had so aggressively drawn groundwater from the surrounding areas that the water. That was coming up with salinated right. How bad a issue is that. It ties in unfortunately very nicely to the invisible part water. We see snowpack glaciers lakes and streams we don't see groundwater and out of sight outta mind and when there's a drought now use the word again people pump groundwater and they mine groundwater and when you mind groundwater you're taking out of the the balanced side of your account can't put it back in easily. I mean you can but you know essentially you're tapping into a reserve that doesn't get replenished as quickly as Surface water does so. Yeah I mean. Central Valley of California during the drought ask sector primarily is just pumping groundwater extensively because there wasn't surface water to irrigate their crops. In depending on where you are. So if you're in places like Florida for example in you're pumping groundwater you're getting saltwater intrusion comes in underneath and you're getting a couple of things happen you're getting subsidence because you're taking the water out of the Aquifer and tend to settle and then you're encouraging or providing a pathway for Salt water so. It's a dual problem that you're creating when you decide you want to pump groundwater in an unsustainable manner how much of the world's population has to get their water as a result of desalination process. Oh good question I will check and follow up with you I. I don't know what the percentages you know. Certain parts of the world very focused on diesel as a source of fresh water so mentally certainly California Australia. It's gaining popularity and also out actually to your point Dan. It's not just saltwater salads also brackish water riley you can pump deep groundwater that is a brackish highly mineralized certainly not for drinking purposes and desalinated turn into a potable source. I don't recall what the percentages but so during regionally driven technology solution an expensive technology isn't not yes so capital hoster high. M costs are high because of the energy which is driving innovation. So you know you're saying New Membrane Technology. That makes it easier to push saltwater through membrane and get a fresh water out the other side or the other way and also move towards looking at things like renewables as a power source as opposed to fossil fuels which is more sustainable but also more cost effective so scarcity drives innovation and Isao. You're certainly seeing that. I have vacationed a Rubel. I don't know if you've ever been there. So this is an island thirteen miles north of Venezuela. They're part of the ABC islands. That's in the south. Caribbean Aruba has no groundwater so all their water comes from the ocean and its desalinated. The first Straw in the water to hearken back to your earlier comment is from the Balaj Beer Company. So there you go. They're taking a SIP. I is part of a future. Reliant on four profit brands like that to maybe help pay for water reclamation or Desalle for all really good question so you know a pretty significant portion of the work I do with companies that have a water stewardship strategy water strategy and dare I say increasingly. The companies acknowledge if not embrace that they are part of the solution to while water scarcity and water quality so the watersheds in which they operate in the communities in which they operate in the participate in collective action initiatives that means basically working with the public sector non-governmental organizations civil society and even competitors precompetitive with space to ensure that everyone has access to water and there is a driving belief that if someone else doesn't have water jeopardizes their ability to access water. So we're essentially in this altogether truly and some really good examples of corporations that are doing quite a bit on collective action programmes investing in access to safe drinking water sanitation hygiene technology innovation weighing in informing public policy decisions. Things like that. Essentially quite encouraging. You're not a psychologist but I'm GonNa ask you shrink like wait. I have three sons so I might be mildly qualified. So when this whole stay at home water kicked in Marshon. I went to Costco to load up on things that we would need and we didn't buy water seemingly everybody else. Did by the pallet load right. Why do we do that? Why did you do that when when water out of the TAP is least in the United States and a lot of places fairly good quality and doesn't cost you anything other than what you pay your utility bill? Yeah I you know. I think people buy bottled water for a number of reasons. One is taste profile taste preference. You know that's why we buy bottled water but we also drink tap water so I think you know taste. Perception of safety in certain parts of the world. It's legitimate concern. You don't really want to be drinking things out of the TAP. You WANNA be buying bottled water from a company that is the water treats. The water provides a level of assurance. You probably can't get from your utility again that's not in the US but parts of the world you know and then there's convenience it's you're on the go. It's easier to grab a bottle of water pence who it is by you. Know some people A bottle of water branded bottle of water as opposed to filling up a water bottle. So I take a number of reasons but you know I think the run on bottled water is driven by fear. You know it. Were you know in the midst of something that I've never seen in my lifetime? Most people can't relate to it so it's like well what's going on what's going to happen. I'm going to take matters into my own hands and ensure that I have enough bottled water and toilet paper. You know neither of which you can buy now Still Ain't right and hand sanitizer so very different very different world so I want to get back to technologies you work with a Lotta different clients in you. Are the water maven. Learning the best of new technologies. Such what are you excited about? Well what kinds of water technologies you. See coming down the pike that you're like. Wow this is really cool. Yeah so Dan. I may get a t shirt that says water on it. Thank you turn the mail. Yeah love it. You're good man. So what I am very excited about and very focused on our digital water technologies so the digital transformation of the water sector essentially and our relationship with water driven by digital where I mean by that is you know look at what has happened. With digital technologies in other aspects of our life which is Mobility Healthcare Education Entertainment. They're all digital platforms to varying degrees n even power and what has happened is that digital has arrived in the water sector and it ranges from satellite data acquisition and analytics their number of companies. Out there now that can monitor. What quality surface water quality on a real time basis? There are companies that can't identify leaks in infrastructure. Using satellite data there are companies out there. A company to take care that has using satellite data for flood prediction analytics. And then all the way down to asset management so intelligent to identify when you're getting treatment and brain failure when you might get potential hype failure so you can repair in place as opposed to waiting for it to break and after tear up a street and then also to collectivity to consumers in customers the APP on your phone letting you know when you might have a leak in your home when you're away remember being away. Dan Dark humor from Denver. The digital transformation of the water sector is fascinating to me a powerful trend free pandemic and now it has just taken off the ability to provide utility workforce's with digital technology. So they can monitor remotely. They can enhance their ability to understand infrastructure assets. So they have incredible trending now. That gets me excited. So we deal with future of work and meaningful work issues on the tight rope. Podcast and I often asked by guests about the future work opportunities that are excited about in their spaces. So what's going on in water that you're excited about for A long term career standpoint and another great question so when I started my career I worked for gentlemen. David Miller name of the company was geared Ian Miller and he said if you want a career in water. It'll last forever in a last year lifetime because it's a public health issue and I remember what he said all the time and I like to believe we'll solve water some of the none critical issues about universal access to say drinking water but the reality is that water the most essential resource. We need for really everything. Can't live without. It can't live without it and if you are part of delivering safe drinking water in an equitable sustainable resilient manner. You've got a career that's it so as much as things have changed for me over the Ark of my career. I'll do it until I can't basically I am passionate about it. There won't be any shortage of hopefully no shortage for opportunities for me to be part of the solution. So now you're taking your thought leadership in like me you become podcast. So tell us about the stream. What is the stream about so the stream is the manifestation of an idea? That was ginned up with Tom. Freiburg from Atlanta media out of the UK. We had a an opportunity to work together that Aqua Tech Amsterdam West November and we just got talking about really the market and people's desire for content in a manner that is not dry and boring but interesting in engaging so it came about late last year and we decided we were GonNa Watch it in April and then the pandemic showed up and then we we said Yeah. Let's just forge ahead. We're going to do it so it is a conversation between US TOM. In the UK may sitting here in Denver about particular topics and we've focused the first couple of episodes on the digital transformation of the water sector. We both have an interest in that and coming from a media. Communications brand perspective of me coming at it from a strategy and innovation perspective. But you know we like to think we're interesting engaging with a little bit of humor sprinkled now and we will start having guests that line up with not just but we wanNA share regarding content but our values. We wanted to be informative no commercials. We don't want people on they're gonNA pitch at all we really want to essentially what we're doing now is personal connection to humanity and delivering content in a engaging way so We've had some really good fun with it. You know we've been wearing our flannel shirts. The first two episodes. What is Tom? Call it a pledge here I think in the UK but you know summer is upon us here in Denver. So there's no guarantee you'll see a flannel shirt on me. Well I don't know it's. It's pretty cold down here in northern Virginia today. I don't know maybe maybe with climate change. It's called here in Denver to actually. We'll Sarney thank you so much for being on the tight rope if somebody wanted to learn more about you. The water found tree or the stream. Where would you point them on? Social media linked in is probably the best way to track down. I would say fairly prolific in terms of pushing out original content commenting on content. That's out there. But yeah you can check out the screen. It's apple podcasts. And Youtube and encouraged retail in know. I'm pretty good about responding and like a good conversation. Well this has been a real treat. I have been eager to get you on his podcast for a couple of years and when I saw that you were doing the podcast and I was like okay. Now's the time let's get a will on thank you? So much will Sarney. And Best of luck to you with the stream and we will include links to all those things so we'll point our listeners over to the stream on Youtube and also wherever I guess you get podcasts. Right Right Sedan. Wonderful to have a conversation really good. Thanks well links to Wilson social media of provided in the show notes for this episode at Dan Smolin Dot Com. Please join us again for more inspiring stories from people who walked the tightrope to seek and do meaningful work. You can subscribe to US wherever you get your podcasts or listen to current and past episodes on our website at Dan smolen dot com. I'm Dan smolen and this. Is the tight rope podcast together. Let's walk the tightrope to find and do meaningful work for the future of work is meaningful work and do remember this. Our best days lie ahead. Let's connect again next week.

US Denver Dan California Wilson Arnie David Miller Sarney founder and CEO Ian Miller Youtube Sarney UK Gdp Queens Hedge Fund TAP Guarantee Miller
Olympic Postponement, Spanish Flu And 1919 Stanley Cup Final, Fenway Groundskeeper

Only A Game

00:00 sec | 7 months ago

Olympic Postponement, Spanish Flu And 1919 Stanley Cup Final, Fenway Groundskeeper

"The only a game I'm Karen Gibbon. There will be no summer Olympics this July. The IOC announced Tuesday that due to the krona virus pandemic the Tokyo Games will be postponed to twenty twenty. One athletes. Fans are disappointed. Of course but this move will also have tremendous consequences for the economies of Tokyo and Japan. And that's why I'm joined by Alastair Guilt The Wall Street Journal's Japan editor in Tokyo Alastair welcomed only a game. Thanks for having me Kyron so I actually want to start back in two thousand thirteen. There were three finalists bidding to host the twenty twenty Summer Games. Istanbul Madrid and Tokyo. Why was Tokyo bidding for the Games and why ultimately do you think the IOC went with the city? It was pitched really as a chance for the country to recover from the disaster that we had here in two thousand eleven when there was a massive earthquake soon. Nami which killed about twenty thousand people they wanted to show give people something to look forward to and also you know. Japan had Olympics in nine hundred sixty four and it has a lot of facilities already so it showed that it was able to be a good host it had a compelling story to tell and I think that's really one of the major reasons why it was successful so that was two thousand thirteen. So what's happened in the years since to get ready for the Games and how much money has been spent you know? It's been remarkably smooth often with Olympic build ups. You get stories of chaos and corruption of facilities. That are not going to be ready on time. But that really hasn't happened here in Japan. You know it's been quite a smooth process. There are several new stadiums and arenas that have been built but all of that is going very smoothly. I mean the budget has grown from the original plan of around seven billion dollars to at least double that and perhaps more. So you know it's been costly but generally has had strong public support here. People were really looking forward to it. Really says something about the Olympic process that only a budget of double is totally normal. So what is it been like to watch as Tokyo continued? Prepare for these gains. Even while this pandemic spread across the globe I have to imagine. It was somewhat surreal. Surreal is the right word you know we even had. The Olympic flame arrived here last week. And I think there's a you know as a widespread relief here that you know. This thing is not now over the country when the corona virus situation here is actually getting worse but there is a cost to keep things on hold for a year and amounts to a fair chunk of money which is obviously not in the original budget. And someone's going to have to pay for and then there's also a cost for hotels restaurants and other businesses that have been getting ready for this influx of visitors. What will this delay mean for them? Right they are the ones that are really going to be most hurt by this and you know Economic Times rashy tough here in Japan even without the corona virus you know. The economy is sort of close to a recession. So it's come at the worst possible time really. I mean I think it's also important to say that the corona virus is the big thing here in terms of what's hurting economy. What's hurting these businesses? You know the uncertainty is whether it will be okay next year if these games do keep getting postponed. Who's on the hook for the cost of that? I mean does the IFC kick in at all right. Well that needs to be figured out from now on There was a meeting with the organizing committee here in Tokyo and the start of the meeting. the CEO on the committee. Said I think we need to do is figure out exactly when the Olympics are GonNa be Second thing we need to do is find out whether all the venues are going to be available for that new date and the third thing is you know figure out who's GonNa pay for all of this given the state of the economy here you know the central government and the Tokyo government not going to be wanting to have to pay a whole lot more that trying to keep the economy afloat and deal with the virus. It's silly to look for a silver lining in all of this but aside from the obvious and huge potential public health benefits that come from postponing. Are there any ways in which the Tokyo Games will actually be better because they were delayed for a year? Well I think if we have come through the global health crisis of the corona virus. You know the Olympics couldn't be somewhat of a sort of celebration of humanity overcoming virus. I mean that's what the prime minister has said. He wants this Olympics to be remembered for so best case scenario. That's will happen. That's Wall Street Journal. Japan editor Allister Gail in Tokyo. We'll have linked to some of the Wall Street Journal's recent coverage on the Olympic postponement at only game dot org. Thanks Alastair thank you Kevin. Tyson is a former minor league baseball player. And he says he didn't know much about hockey but while researching a book about the nineteen seventeen Stanley Cup finals. Kevin came across another story about the nineteen nineteen championships. Series was just a weird anomaly. It was kind of a cute little side story in recent weeks. Kevin has found himself thinking back on that story again and again all of a sudden it's relevant like as the corner virus started to spread. I definitely was looking at it thinking this early. Similar all right. So let's start at the beginning of the story that you researched and I suppose in many ways it begins towards the end of World War. One with what was called the Spanish flu so tell me about that pandemic. When did it start? How is it spread so it starts in the spring of nineteen eighteen so it starts a little bit earlier than the end of the war but the biggest certainly is in the fall of nineteen eighteen? And I think that's when it's most lethal right and so you have all the soldiers returning home from all over the world and they all return home to huge parades and public gatherings and you know a lot of these guys are infected with the Spanish flu which is the H One. N One right. So it's the swine flu that we had ten years ago then. There was no herd immunity to there was no vaccine to it. There was nothing it's spread rapidly and by October of nineteen eighteen Seattle had pretty much. Shut everything down right correct. Yeah that's correct. Schools had shutdown bars and restaurants shutdown down. Public gatherings had shut down. That sounds really familiar. Absolutely but in January of Nineteen nineteen. Those restrictions were lifted bars and restaurants. We're back open. Schools were back in session and the Seattle Metropolitans. We're back on the ICE. So tell me about the Seattle mets. So there's two leagues back then can similar to the American League in the National League in baseball the NHL. At that point is the East Coast League and the Pacific coast. Hockey Association is the West Coast League. The Metropolitans and the Vancouver millionaires are widely regarded as the two best teams out west. And I think the metropolitans were probably the better of the two teams that season hockey. Season's started and it seems like it was a rather short season because two months later in March the Stanley Cup were said and it was going to be the Seattle mets and the Montreal Canadians and it was a five day train ride between those two cities so all five teams were to be held in Seattle Seattle Daily Times March Seventeenth. Nineteen nineteen a mad scramble for world series of hockey tickets. That's what's going on now at the Arena at eight thirty this morning fans were lined up for blocks in the pouring rain waiting for the seat sale to commence and the office didn't open until nine. Seattle fans were pretty excited right. Yeah absolutely I mean the arena. Seattle held twenty five hundred people and and they were packing it with thirty five hundred for these games. You know they're standing room only. There's kids up on the roof looking through skylights and looking in the Trans over the doors and yeah it was a really exciting time and really had this populace that needed something to celebrate right after the war had been devastating and this virus had been devastating and it was finally something everyone could rally around and and celebrate in describing the two teams the Seattle Daily Times noted that the Canadians had the weight advantage over the mets but they also pointed out that Badge Oh hall at just one hundred and sixty five pounds was still a factor to be reckoned with at all points in the game so who was bad Joe Hall Joe Hall. Sort of the first enforcer in hockey the thing that's interesting he's a really skilled guys a defenseman that he's one of those. I sorta nasty players. That'll take your head off if you're not and he was widely respected. You know he was the guy that he's friends with all of them. I think on the ice everybody hated him and hated playing against him and off the ice they loved him so game one. The locals had the advantage to say the least Seattle Post Intelligencer Thursday march twenty nine nineteen nineteen skating rings around the Flying Frenchman. Eastern champions the Seattle Metropolitans put the skins under the Montreal squad. In the first game of the world. Talking title series. The final score was seven goals to zero with the Seattle men on the long count. What happened in that game? Yes so again like I said it's sort of American league in the National League so there's slightly different rules so the West Coast League has seven on the ice. They have a position called the rover. East Coast League has six. There's forward passing the West. There's not in the East so games one three and five or played by West Coast rules two and four played by east coast roles and West Coast rules favor athleticism and speed and it's more of a flow game and the East Coast. Game is more individualistic. So the two teams split those first three games kind of according to whose rules were in use. Exactly aim for is where things start to get really interesting. So scribe game for for me. The game goes into two overtimes players start collapsing on the ice. At the end they get a standing ovation from the crowd but they come in and decided that can't keep playing and they declared a tie and at that time they think that it's just exhaustion. It's interesting. The game is widely considered the greatest game ever played at least of that era. They may be playing hockey championships for the next thousand years but they'll never stage greater struggle. The not which held four thousand spectators spellbound last night as entertaining as it was really messed up the schedule of the Stanley Cup finals right absolutely so the president's of both leagues for Colder and Frank Patrick decide that they're gonNA replay by eastern rules and that from now on play until there's a winner and so game five is played with eastern rules the metropolitan go up three goals. You know if all the fans in the arena. Think that the game's over again exhaustion starts to kick in and guys start to collapse on the ice again and this game again goes into overtime and the Canadians win. You know. And I don't think the metropolitan so that stressed about it. I think they know that game six is going to be played by Western roles and you know they wake up the next morning and lives completely changed for them so each team has now won two games. That game for Thai has forced a deciding game six and it's pretty clear at this point that the players are under tremendous strain the Seattle Post intelligencer printed a list of the injuries and will the injuries. A lot of them are hockey injuries. Seattle row wrench Danko for Houston torn tendon. Ricky got on leg but there are a number of players who are listed as having a fever or a high fever and that sounds remarkably like not exhaustion but the Spanish flu. Did the newspapers pick up on that? The nuns are not hockey injuries. I mean maybe they did. Maybe they're trying to avoid a striking fear again but from everything that I've seen nobody picked up on it until the day after game. Fives played influenza. Has Within the past. Forty eight hours laid out five of the Canadians. Two Metropolitans both head coaches they all wake up with scary fevers like hundred and three hundred and four degree. Tomson at that point. The Canadians don't have enough players to put a team on the ice and they offered a forfeit. The series people doing the head coach for the Metropolitans won't accept winning. You know not on the ice and so he declines the forfeit as that. It's all happening. The Health Department hoops in cancels the series. They talk about Vancouver a little bit and then they talked about moving to Montreal They talked about waiting a few weeks. They ultimately just decided that the series goes down as a tie. Okay so four days after the game was called off Joe Hall died. What was the reaction to that news? You know horrible right. It's the guy that was friends with all the players you know. He's thirty seven years old. He has three kids He lived in Vancouver British Columbia. So you know. He was in some ways. A local. Both teams went up for the funeral and Very very very sad time and while the others recovered they didn't all come out of this unscathed. Right yeah so George Kennedy. The owner of the Canadians he recovers from the short-term effects of this flu but you know he has pretty severe health complications for the last two years of his life and he passes away and Pete Muldoon who was the metropolitans head coach in. This is a guy that was a professional boxer us. Ice Dancer Really Really Super Healthy Guy. And he ends up having a heart attack. Ten years later in dying The age of forty one and again two small kids and there was a lot of thought then that he never fully recovered from the Spanish flu that potentially had weakened his heart. I read a stat that Spanish flu pandemic cut the life expectancy in America by twelve years so the nineteen nineteen Stanley Cup. Final remains the only time a US major professional sports championship ended with Co Champions. You've gotten to spend as I understand it a little bit of time with the Stanley Cup itself. How is that year inscribed on the Cup? Yeah it says. Nineteen Nineteen Montreal. Canadian's Seattle Metropolitans series not completed when I first started researching the book. I wasn't sure if people cared about hockey and I wasn't sure if the Stanley Cup was even a thing that was famous back then and it certainly was. It was very very important to the players to the media to the fans. You know they were all very passionate about it The city really wanted to win. The players really wanted to win and they just ultimately couldn't make it happen. What lessons do you take from this story? Yeah I mean I think you know. One of the biggest things is just as you see them the media reports and as this thing unfolds. I think one of the biggest points of fear is that. We're in uncharted waters right. Nobody's seen this before and and it certainly has never happened in our lifetime but it has happened. You know there are a lot of lessons that our government and the health department and our sports leagues can draw from that experience and like the League came back right. All sports came back. The nineteen twenty season starts. You know just a little bit late wasn't like it. Was this lingering hangover that took years and years and years for society in our economy. And all those things to bounce back you know. It happened rapidly so for me. I draw hope from that parallels from that that you know we will get through this and and things will bounce back quickly and our economy would be humming again. Our restaurants will be full and arenas will be packed so when you hear people complaining that all of their favorite sporting events have been taken away what you WanNa say to them. I mean sort of a bad answer right. I mean. I was a professional baseball player in college baseball coach and like it's tragic. I feel horrible for College. Seniors in high school seniors have lost. You know something special something that can never be given back to them but also look at it like this right so. Let's hope that this thing doesn't get anywhere near what Spanish flu pandemic did right. And and I don't think it will but it was like five hundred million that were infected and you know roughly fifty million died and if you apply that to today's population right that's two point. Six billion that are infected and roughly two hundred and thirty million that died. And it's horrible right. I'm completely willing to give up my sports so that two hundred thirty million people don't have to die. I think that we can all come together as a community and hopefully continue to support our franchises and our businesses and and all those things and get through this and have a great summer watching sports. Hopefully you said that was going to be a bad answer. But I don't think of as bad answer at all. I struggle when people are complaining about it. I just thanks so much for this. This has been really great. Yeah thank you for for doing it. I think it's just like it's a message. Needs to get out there. Kevin Tyson's book is when it mattered. Most the forgotten story of America's first Stanley Cup and the war to end all wars. We'll have a link at only a game dot org. When David Miller was eighteen years old he was hit by a car twice. His dreams of playing major league. Baseball were over but his struggle was just beginning. I had one to five vivid lifelike nightmares every night for twenty nine years. That's coming up on only a game from NPR. WanNa add more positively to your podcast feed checkout kind world stories of extraordinary kindness and compassion. That's kind world. Subscribe now on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen. I'm Karen Given this was supposed to be baseball's opening week. My husband and I were supposed to be going to fenway park next Thursday. Actually because the home opener is always a little later in Boston. And we were supposed to eat peanuts. And sit in uncomfortably. Small seats enjoying the fresh chilly air. Instead I'm recording this program in my closet again but you know sometimes life throws you curve balls. Sometimes it's downright cruel and that's what this next story is about. Here's Vic Vella from podcast back from broken. David Meller was a standout pitcher in high school. He was even weighing. Scholarship offers from college teams but one summer evening in one thousand nine hundred one. Everything changed. David and a friend were on their way home from the movies and they decided to grab a bite at McDonalds. I forgot my wallet and I went back to the car. Picked up my wallet. Shut the door and took a few steps to head back toward the restaurant and out of corner my eye. I saw car come off the street and they stopped and then they motioned for me to go ahead and walk so I started walking and I heard them rather engine and squeal their tires and I saw the car speeding toward me so I raised both my hands and my left leg and the car hit me. Wow and threw me twenty feet in the air. David says the pain was really intense in the scene was chaotic. But the hell he was going through wasn't over yet. The driver who was just learning how to drive panicked and stepped on the gas pedal again and so the car hit David. A second time meadow bumper. Hit the metal handrail and sparks flew and the car's engine was revving and the car was pending the bumper against my knee and I was screaming at the lady to stop. Stop and trying to push the car off of me and I can see the lady to staring at me in a panic. Chills are running through me. The pain is intense. But I just can't get the car to stop an investigation showed. It was a freak accident. The woman behind the wheel had simply stepped on the gas. Instead of the brake. It hurt the first time when the car hit me in a second time it hit me was was even more intense and you know. I thought what am I going to do? I was worried if my leg was crushed. What was I going to do with my life? I couldn't play baseball. David Meller could see his destiny mapped out in front of him at a very young age he was a gifted athlete with a powerful arm and he loved baseball. In fact professional baseball was in his blood his grandfather played in the majors in one thousand nine hundred two and even though he grew up in Ohio David Miller was a die hard Boston Red Sox Fan. He even nicknamed his backyard fence. The green monster after the red sox famous outfield. Wall at Fenway Park. I just lived and breathed baseball constantly. I would call into our local small radio station night to get red SOx score before I went to sleep and played wiffle ball imitating all the red sox players in my backyard. David was on his way to follow in his grandfather's footsteps until that summer evening when David was in high school and he and a friend decided to go to McDonalds here remembers the intense pain as he added to the hospital and in the hours after the accident he faced more than just physical pain. I Remember Waking Up screaming from the first nightmare that first night and it was just the. The nightmare was just so vivid and lifelike. Like I just I just relived the whole accident again. Did you have one the next night I did? In fact I had one to five vivid lifelike nightmares every night for twenty nine years David. Twenty nine years yes sir. I the nightmares were so intense that I was scared to go to sleep. David had three different surgeries on. Came out of the surgery. I said doc you know how soon can I play ball? He said You won't play baseball again. He said you'll be lucky to walk normal again and he put quotation fingers normal in tears just started porn on my face and house bound and determined to prove him wrong. Maybe I wouldn't be able to pitch again but I was gonNA walk normal and I was eighteen year old kid kind of mad at the world and there are a lot of tough days but one good thing did happen. While David was in physical therapy he met someone who changed his life. It started when his buddy took him out on a blind date with a woman named unease. I was walking with a cane and she liked me for who I was. She didn't judge me for my length. She didn't judge me for how I got around in. She got me out to dance at a at a place. We went after dinner and and she just accept me for who I was. Would you have met? Had you not been involved in the accident no sir? I would have been away at college plan baseball. I literally fell in love with her that night around this time. David thought hard about what he do now. That PLAYING BASEBALL WASN'T AN OPTION. He liked mowing lawns and the neighborhood growing up. He liked being outside so he got the idea to be a groundskeeper. For Major League Baseball. He took some college courses. In how to care for turf grass and my brother lived in Milwaukee the time and so I reached out to the brewers and sent them many many many letters and many many phone calls and kind of became that squeaky wheel. And the brewers finally said. We'll give you an opportunity to work for the Games. Only you know I always end the majors and I was so excited to be there my job so the next best thing to playing. David worked his way up from the Game Day crew and became a major league grounds keeper in Nineteen eighty-four in his personal life was great. He married Denise and they had two daughters but David was haunted by getting hit by that car twice in the McDonald's parking lot he had quietly suffered through those intense nightmares since that first car accident so we tried to cope by working all the time. Because if I kept busy symptoms weren't as bad and I remember when that girls were probably five and three when my wife was driving by the park and she overheard our oldest daughter. Tell her youngest daughter. Hey Look that's where dad lives. And I thought that was the lesser two evils. I thought that was better on my family than me going home having mood swings when I had quiet time I didn't WANNA go sleep. It's just matter how soon the nightmares would start while David did you dread going to bed at night. Yes Sir as scared to go to sleep. I would do everything I could watch. Tv to not fall asleep. I was scared I was embarrassed. I didn't think there is anybody that could relate to what I was going through. And then the guy who'd been hit by a car twice in one thousand nine hundred eighty one got hit again. I was raking out in left field near an irrigation head. And I heard a car and I thought that's odd that there would be a car noise inside the park. He was at Milwaukee County Stadium. Standing on the field not long after the team wrapped up. Its nineteen ninety. Five season I turned in there was a car coming from behind the bleachers toward the open field and so I put both my arms up and and yelled to the car to stop and the lady smiled as big as she could and stepped on the gas and came right at me. She hit me. I hit the windshield and landed in a pile at the base of the Outfield Wall. Pats the woman in the card kept going driving along the warning track at the at the field but then she veered the car and turned aiming right at me and I thought. Oh my gosh. This is that she's literally GonNa to just run me right over and at the last moment. She veered to the left to miss me and slammed on the brakes and stopped right beside me. David I have so many questions. First of all you must have been thinking why me it just kind of happened so fast as a lot to process yes sir. Did you think you were going to die when I was laying there on the ground? And she was aiming right at me again? I did. I thought it was going to die. The attack was random. The driver had a history of mental illness. She'd previously threatened the Queen of England and tried to assault Oprah Winfrey. David went to court during her trial and he says that was also a traumatic experience. And it just really intensified my nightmares and it made me look over my shoulder and for my family. The David just kept doing his job and he did it so well. Another team became interested in hiring him. Mr Joe Mooney. Who was groundskeeper for the Red Sox for thirty years called out of the blue he called and said David. I'm thinking about retiring but only retire if you replace me. So David became the head. Groundskeeper of Fenway Park home of his favorite team and the real green monster. So you started your job next year. Which was two thousand wine in? Any baseball fan knows that that was just before the red sox started shaking off that curse and finally won a world series a couple of years later David. I can't imagine the thrill of that being a life long socks fan and then being part of the first world series victory in almost a century. And yet you're were dealing with decades of PTSD. When did you finally decide to get some help? Yeah I think there's a lot of different Aha moments in our lives. I get acupuncture for pain management and before treatment. There is a a large table there with probably fifty magazines on it and I just happened to pick up a Smithsonian magazine. The first page I opened was an article about a new treatment facilities for veterans dealing post traumatic stress and everything just clicked in that moment the symptoms that plagued the veterans in that article had also been following. David around for almost three decades involuntary trembling. Irritability restlessness depression nightmares flashbacks insomnia emotional numbness sensitivity to in tendency to seek solace in alcohol as I read that chills just ran through me and start pouring down my face while as I realize either actively had or had dealt with ten of those twelve symptoms and while it scared the heck out of me gave me hope I thought you had to be in the military to get PTSD. I had no idea you could get it any other way. I went home right away and I said honey we've gotta talk and I opened up my soul and all those things I had feared. She might say she didn't say I should have given her credit all those years before and I went to mass general the next day to start counseling and I walked in with my hat pulled down hoping no one would recognize me and say why are you here now. I'm proud to be a PTSD survivor. I'm proud to say I went through counseling and I'm proudest at go to counseling and therapist is changed my world for the better and more importantly changed my family's life for the better. You know we had to work through to desensitize all these raw buried emotions. One by one and each one was a crack in like a sea monster with tentacles and February. Twenty fifth two thousand eleven. I slept for the first night and twenty nine years. I slept seven hours straight and did not have a nightmare. Good for you. I felt like jumping up and down on the bed like Tom. Cruise did on Oprah's SOFA. I was so excited. Getting therapy learning how to deal with. Ptsd all of that gave David New perspective. I've been hit by a car three times. And I figured that's better than four and I've had forty five surgeries. I figured that's better than forty-six. I really feel blessed. That story came from Vic Vella he's the host of a brand new podcast from Colorado public media called back from broken. You should definitely check it out. David Miller's book is one base at a time we'll have links at only a game dot Org Days after September eleventh. Two thousand one. While flights were still grounded esteemed senator drove from Omaha to Chicago with Mr Cub Ernie banks and during that very long car ride the state senator learned things about the hall of Famer. Most people never knew. That's coming up and remember you can follow us on facebook and twitter at only game. Npr need to escape the news for a moment checkout endless thread a podcast from wr and read it from mysteries to histories two stories that will remind you of our shared humanity. Subscribe to endless thread on Apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen. I'm Karen Given next week on only a game. Comedian Gary Coleman returns to the show with advice on how sports fans can stay healthy a world without our usual sports but first Charlie Pierce joins me virtually with the week sports news. Hi Charlie how you holding up? Hi Karen I'm distancing socially very enthusiastically so thirsty should have opening day opening day. It was not but on Thursday. Mlb and the players Union agreed to a deal that will distribute one hundred seventy million dollars to players over the next two months with most of that going to those with guaranteed major league contracts. Is it just me? Or are those the guys who probably pay their mortgages even if they missed a couple of paychecks? Yeah I think this was pretty much a deal to keep both sides out of court for the next fifty years because if there have been some sort of reneging on guaranteed contracts or something they would have been all kinds of lawyers chiming in from their home offices. The League hopes to start games as early as June potentially without fans in attendance that would extend the regular season into October with playoff games at neutral sites in November. Are you ready for the boys of November? There's also Scott Boris's proposal which would have them playing a game a world series game on Christmas which is the NBA is going to have a cow if that happens because Christmas is owned by the NBA. I don't know I mean I think you know we're going to have to accept the year twenty twenty as being so generous in so many ways. And that's maybe one of them. Charlie did you tune into Steph. Curry's Instagram live interview with. Dr. Anthony Vouch e because fifty thousand people dead including former President Barack Obama. Yeah well you know Barack so very big Steph fan and a very big Anthony Fauci Fan. So of course he would. This is something that you know Steph. Curry found that he could do. Besides just you know writing checks that he could actually get some information out there and I'm sure foul she was glad to be sharing a podium with anybody except the president so it was a win win. Well I want to play just a little clip when it comes to dealing with each individual case like. How are we addressing the testing issue? Okay great question. That's been a real issue. Early Steph isn't a bad interviewer but beyond that I'm fascinated by the fact that this interview is likely to reach an entirely different demographic than say a White House briefing. Yeah I think you know you're GONNA YOU'RE GONNA get a lot of young people which is important because there has been a problem of young people believing they have some sort of natural immunity to this thing and Steph will reach those people and I think that's all for the good the. Nfl draft will start on April twenty third as scheduled and teams worried that they won't have enough time to vet potential. Draftees are being told not to complain about it. Commissioner Roger Goodell's memo obtained by ESPN's. Adam schefter reads quote public discussion of issues related to the draft serves no useful purpose and is grounds for disciplinary action. That's a tad draconian. Don't you think Roger Goodell with any disciplinary power whatsoever is like handing a toddler a flame thrower? Something's going to burn down that you don't want to burn down. I don't have a lot of sympathy for teams either. I mean they ought to know by now you know who they're going to draft and why if they don't the ownership day management of the team should Quinton and let the janitorial staff tickets place. Well the worry here is that teams in hard. Hit areas like California and New Jersey will be at a competitive disadvantage because they're on work from home. Orders while teams and other areas are still free to go to work but you know what could solve that the NFL could just say for the good of the public health. Everybody should work from home crazy. I could postpone the draft also Fox ability. I mean you can watch film at home. I'm sure bill valujet. Does you can record a radio show from fellowship. Probably has something. That looks like the situation room at home. I'm sure he does. I'd like to offer a shoutout to Elisha notch mortgage a thirty two year old restaurant worker living in France who ran an entire marathon back and forth on his twenty three foot long balcony. The feet took six hours and forty eight minutes and he did it to show people that even though they're stuck at home they can still get some exercise. What exercise have you gotten today? Charlie I managed to get from my my working chair to the telephone and I can do it repeatedly. This was a seven meter balcony by the way but good for Alicia for showing us in dominant -bility in the face of incredible boredom and finally Charlie. The English Football Association has been forced to issue a statement saying that they are not. I repeat they are not planning to use. Wembley Stadium to bake the world's largest lasagna with slices to be delivered by flying drones to those affected by the corona virus outbreak. Wait dudes if I may say this to a brethren and sister and in the UK believe everything you see on the Internet Cate with guys joke however drone delivered. Lasagna does sound like a an appealing prospect. Sign me up. I mean yeah I mean yum right. Surely peers is the guest editor of the best American sports writing. Two Thousand Nineteen any joins US each week at this time on only a game. Thanks Charlie and stay safe. Thank you Karen. You too Sometimes when the world is topsy turvy and nothing feels familiar. People let their guards down were given opportunities to learn things about ourselves and our friends that we might not have known Ron rapoport wrote about one such story in. Let's play to his two thousand nineteen biography of Baseball Hall of Famer Ernie Banks and we liked that story so much. We decided to give it a double play. That's what we call our occasional series where we turn a newspaper column or a Book. Chapter into a radio drama on the morning of September eleventh. Two Thousand One former Illinois State Senator William Mayor Vitz was awakened in a hotel room in Omaha Nebraska by the sound of a ringing telephone turn on the TV. The voice in his ear said it's Meredith said Harnett on very very quick together. They watched smoke billowing from the North Tower of the World Trade Center in New York and the chaos in the streets below then. They gasped in unison. As a second plane struck the South Tower. So this looks like it is some sort of a concerted effort to attack the World Trade Center that is hurriedly dressed and took a cab to the golf course not far away there. He joined more than one hundred others who had been invited to attend an outing arranged by Warren Buffett. The businessman investor and philanthropist and one of the world's richest men for the first time in my life. I'm speechless but those who had flown Omaha should entertain no thoughts of returning home anytime soon. But it warned. I know many of you have your own planes. But it doesn't matter the sky is closed. Meredith's looked around for the two men he had previously arranged a play with Stedman. Grandma Chicago businessman who is best known as the fiance of Oprah Winfrey and Ernie banks the hall of Fame Baseball Player who had spent his entire career with the Chicago cubs as they made their way around the golf course they could see buffet visiting with each group of golfers and giving them updates on the attacks as he approached them. But it's walkie talkie crackles just landed the plane carrying President. George W Bush had arrived at nearby often air force base the headquarters of the United States Strategic Command which contained an underground bunker built to withstand a nuclear blast at that point. We don't know if we're in the safest place in the world or the most dangerous at breakfast. The next morning Graham told mayor of its and banks that Winfrey would be sending a plane but as the day wore on it became clear that not even Oprah Winfrey would be able to breach the closure of the nation's air traffic and for two more days buffets out of town visitors remained stranded on the third day merits began making calls and found a rental agency. That had a car available. He invited golfing companions to join him. But gram held firm. He would wait for Winfrey's plane he said but banks said common with you and after getting directions from the hotel the two men set off on a trip to Chicago. They were told would take about seven hours. Despite banks's constant public display of good cheer merits and others. Who Knew Him? Well were aware of another more complicated side of his personality. Upon meeting people banks would always ask a question in then follow up with more only later with those talking to him realize that he had not said a single word about himself. He'd me how's that new restaurant doing. Are you going to run for office? Have you seen the merely over the years? The people closest to bankside learned that these questions and especially his two best known greetings. Are you married? And how's your wife? Were a defense mechanism. As long as he was asking questions he didn't have to answer them. He was widely hailed as baseball's greatest ambassador. He exuded happiness and insisted there was nothing he would rather do than play baseball. He never refused to give an interview or sign an autograph and his signature line. It's a beautiful day for a ballgame. Lets play to became a much quoted and much parodied part of the American vocabulary but he would not talk about himself. But as the two men rode through the flat midwestern landscape banks began to talk and for the first time since Meredith had known him and the last he talked about himself he talked about growing up as the oldest boy in a family of twelve in Dallas and the responsibilities that entailed once he had missed a year of school to help his father picked cotton. He talked about playing for the Kansas City. Monarchs says the Negro Leagues were in their final years. Because the best young black players were following. Jackie Robinson and the other pioneers into the major leagues. He talked about buck. O'neil Cool Papa Bell and all the others who had missed their chance because they had been born too soon and how. They compensated by teaching those who came after everything they knew. He talked about the women in his life and the mistakes he made with them one after another. He talked about his distant relationship with his three children and how he wished he had been a better father he talked about. His teammates would become as close as family during their playing days. He talked about Leo Durocher. Who had humiliated and mocked him while Durocher was managing the cubs and how he had responded with silence and runs batted in. He talked about the piercing disappointment of the cubs fabled faded season of nineteen sixty nine when the city and its fans had been on fire until the all too bitter end. He talked about the pain of never having played in a world series and the fear that he would be remembered more for that piece of bad luck than for the great player he had been. He talked about the pleasures and burdens of being the very symbol of his team. A ONE AND ONLY MR trump. Hey Hey holy mackerel. No doubt about it. The cubs are on their way to it again. A little bit. The hours rolled by and mayor vits fascinated by banks stories about himself fascinated. That banks was telling stories about himself glanced up and saw a sign that said Claire City. This doesn't seem right. He thought he had been distracted by banks his monologue he realized and not paying attention to where they were going. He had better stop and check the directions he'd been given back at the Hotel Chicago. The man at the gas station said and burst out laughing. Ha You gain the wrong way. Fella Meredith had not driven east from Omaha Toward Illinois. He was told but North into South Dakota. He had driven through South Dakota in fact almost to the North Dakota border. The seven hour trip he had planned would now take at least fourteen laughing at the absurdity of it all. He gave his passenger the bad news the car around and headed for home. Ernie banks talking about himself all the while. Ooh ooh that was from the prologue of Ron rapoport. Two Thousand Nineteen biography. Let's play to the legend of Mr Cub. The life of Ernie banks we first aired that piece back in April of two thousand. Nineteen as part of an occasional series. We call double play. Only a game is produced by Jonathan. Chang Martin Kessler and Gary Wallich. Our technical director is Marquee SMEAL. Our executive producer is me. I'm Karen Given only a game returns next week. Thanks for listening.

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Amanpour: Jared Kushner, Marwan Muasher, Aaron David Miller and Ted Koppel

Amanpour

00:00 sec | 9 months ago

Amanpour: Jared Kushner, Marwan Muasher, Aaron David Miller and Ted Koppel

"Hello everyone and welcome to Amman. For here's what's coming up. Our plan is the eighty pages and is the most detailed proposal ever put forward by far. President Trump finally unveils his Middle East peace plan a made his Senate impeachment trial. I talked to jared Kushner the president's trusted adviser son-in-law and architect of this plan then we speak to both Jordanian ordained and American negotiators in previous peace deals plus much not kid ourselves. Donald Trump has been very very good for the business of a legendary American broadcasts. At Ted Koppel tells are Walter Isaacson of his worries about the State of journalism today. Welcome to the program everyone. I'm Christiane Amanpour in London. The president's impeachment trial is in full swing and yet Donald Trump decided decided now is the time to unveil his Middle East peace plan. He was joined at the White House by only one party to the conflict Israeli prime minister. Benjamin Netanyahu who who himself just hours earlier was formally indicted on charges of bribery fraud and breach of trust. They stood side by side to praise the proposal. That included voted no input from the Palestinians. My vision presents a win win. Opportunity for both sides. A realistic take two state solution that resolves the risk of Palestinian statehood to Israel's security too many plans tried to pressure Israel Israel to withdraw from vital territory like the Jordan Valley. But you Mr President you recognize that Israel must must have sovereignty in the Jordan Valley and the other in other strategic areas of Judea and Samaria both acknowledge this proposal would meet opposition especially from the Palestinians who have cut off dialogue with the trump administration since the president move the US embassy to Jerusalem and recognized Israel's undivided sovereignty over the city and indeed the Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has already rejected it saying saying the Palestinians cannot be brought to their knees and that this deal will not pause now at the White House. Ceremony Netanyahu paid tribute to President Trump's senior. The adviser and son-in-law Jared Kushner for his work on the plan saying Israel owes Kushner a debt of gratitude and Jared Kushner is joining me now from Washington. Welcome welcome to the program. Jared Kushner thank you. It's an honor to be with you. Okay so jared. This is a huge day for you for the president. And let's face it for Benjamin Netanyahu and his allies and supporters. We know that they believe this to be a great deal. Because they've said it he has said it from the podium but I want to pick up on what the president said that he wanted to make this a win win deal including for the Palestinians. Can you tell me sort of lay out precisely where you think. The win is for the Palestinians the precise details perfect. Well first of all. I'd like to say that today. Today was a big accomplishment for president trump. Something that only he could have done. He may yesterday with Prime Minister. Netanyahu but also General Ganz his opponent in a time of very very divisive politics in Israel where they can't agree on much. He brought the country together on. What has been the most most divisive issue? But he's also done is. We've released an eighty page. This detailed plan past plans. You had the European initiative which is a very good effort which is about eight lines and then you had passed proposals. which were two to three pages of wordsmith documents really talking about high principles? He also got Israel to agree for the first time to a state and he got Israel to agree to a map. So what you've seen today. Is that president. Trump's built a lot of trust with the state of Israel. He's done a lot of great things that have made Israel more secure in the relationship between America and Israel stronger. And what he's been able to do today is deliver for the Palestinians a pathway to a state a contiguous territory and conditions where they can earn their way to their independence their dignity all these different things along with fifty billion dollar economic plan. That could make them a very very thriving stayed in the future so it's a big opportunity for the Palestinians and you know they have a perfect track record of blowing every opportunity. They've had in their past. But perhaps maybe their leadership will read the details of it Stopped posturing and do what's best to try to make. The Palestinian people's lives better. I'm jared with respect. Obviously they have been Israeli. Prime ministers also talked about a two state solution and a Palestinian state. Eight also American presidents and have been maps as the also this the current map. And there's the one that you have just revealed in this page plant. I'm I guess I WANNA ask you. Because clearly the president himself president trump said you know we'll wait to see what the Arab world says because what they say will be very important important in terms of how this will play out. It was noticeable that in in the in the White House spin in the White House ceremony there there was only the ambassadors from Oman. UAE and Bahrain given that the Palestinians have rejected in the Jordanians sorority issued. A statement which I can read parts of it to you. Where does this go next? Well what do you think is going to happen next since there has not been the fulsome support publicly from the heavyweights in the Arab world. I'll be honestly. It's very difficult to do remote interview with you or you're gonNA hurt all these different things as facts ax without giving me the chance to respond to things that are not correct Happy to answer that question but if I can go back to the premise that I don't want to accept in your question again I've studied this. Now you've very closely for the last three years. I have not found any maps from any pass negotiations that have ever been produced nor have I ever. There's never been a map in the history of this. That has has been accepted by the state of Israel. So hopefully will you'll stipulate to that. Israel also does not have diplomatic relations with the countries that you mentioned and the fact that they showed up today. Hey to celebrate the Israeli Current Israeli prime minister agreeing to negotiate on the framework of a basis of state. I think is also a very significant achievement and if you look look at what president trump has done in the region overall he's unified the region around common common goals and shared enemies. So but we've been able to do is get people to focus on Ron and their maligned behavior by putting a chokehold on their finances. We've stopped a lot of funding of terror When the president trump got here there is isis headed caliphate? The size of Ohio okay. Oh He's destroyed that and killed their leader Al Baghdadi he's been working with Saudi Arabia and other countries to combat extremism and the ideology. So what what. We're seeing from a lot of other countries is. They're very very thrilled. That there's finally a real effort on the table. There's a real plan on the table. Real offer and that president trump was able to secure. They recognize that no other president would have been able to achieve that and they're hopeful that the Palestinians for once we'll do something rational. Come to the table negotiate and so the terms are not the final terms. This is a a an opening offer and if the Palestinians come and they have some adjustments they wanNA move the line they want to change one of the sentences. They wanted negotiate on different things. They'll it'll be flexibility and one thing I'll say to Christiane. Is that actually. When I was with the Sultan of Oman? He said something to me that really resonated where he said I feel bad for the Palestinian people that they carry the burden with them the entire Muslim world and it made me really understand that this is two different conflicts that have been completed that people have used for their own different purposes over the years. Never for good. You have a territorial dispute between the Israelis and the Palestinians and security dispute. There's a very prescriptive outcome that we proposed for that if the the Palestinians have issues with that they should try to come and negotiate it. Then you have a religious dispute between Israel and the entire Islamic world and that's over the Haram Al-Sharif th the the mosque what the president also got Israel to acknowledge. Today is the special role that the king of Jordan plays With that site and also to say that all Muslims from throughout the world old are welcome to come and pray and so. I do think that that will help. Bring Israel and the Muslim world closer together because Jerusalem is a city that whether you're a Muslim Christian or Jew it's something that everyone should be able to come and practice their religion and enjoy regardless of territorial and security dispute between the Israelis and the Palestinians sending so I I do think we've made historic progress today and again I really hope that. You'll Acknowledged that and again read the plan. And I think you'll see a lot of very good support from places that nobody was expecting. Okay so you know. Obviously there are a few questions to ask you in there. You've stated eloquently. You worked on this for. I guess nearly three years and and you have come out new veiled it but to several points here. There are two Arab countries which have relations with Israel historic relations Egypt and Jordan. They were not present at the ceremony and Jordan did put out a statement which basically said was worried about the quote quote dangerous consequences of unilateral Israeli actions including the annexation of Palestinian land the building expansion of settlements in any encroachment on the holy sites that aim to impose new realities on the ground. Including what even. Benjamin Netanyahu acknowledged was for the first time the Americans have you. Your Administration Administration has recognized the annexation. I Israel sovereignty over the Jordan Valley which is right next door to Jordan so there is an unprecedented amount of of territory that you have offered to. The Israelis at the United States is now offered to the Israelis and the Israeli as the Israeli government is in a bit of a of an uproar president Prime Minister Netanyahu was indicted today shortly before standing next to the president. Who's also being impeached? I guess the question is. Do you expect Israel as Netanyahu said tweet immediately and act as he said Israeli law over the Jordan Valley over the areas of the settlements over Jerusalem or like Ben Against the opposition leader. Says you know we need to wait. We need to see this as a basis for negotiations and furthermore. We shouldn't take these actions unless we have a stable Israeli government you know. They're elections coming up in less than six weeks. Why now I guess? What's the rush? Well it's not about rush again getting both parties in Israeli election to agree as a historic accomplishment on a very contentious issue again. You raise a lot of concepts. Let me try go through them. So that I don't accept premises that may not be accurate with regards to to the Israeli politics slow. We're going to do but we released was a conceptual actual map. It's GONNA take us a couple of months to go through it and try to get a detailed so could take us to three or four months to do that. We'll start the process immediately again. We welcome the Palestinians if they WANNA come Um and be a part of it if they have suggestions for areas to include or not include We're happy to do it again. I come from a real estate background. It was a very very difficult to draw these lines and to get a map where you can have contiguity to a Palestinian state and again. This isn't something that we that we developed. This is something that we inherited the situation. Where or Israel continues to grow and grow and what? The president's secure today was Israel agreeing to stop for four years more settlements to give the Palestinians their last chance to finally have a state The other thing I'll say is you mentioned that Jordan statement which I have not had a chance to see but there was a good statement from Egypt the UK just put out a very encouraging statement. I believe there's more statements coming in the Middle East. I saw a couple more coming out. That were very supportive. They called this very serious proposal. And they encourage both sides negotiate on the basis of this deal. And so I I think what we have today is a real breakthrough and so the question then comes down to the Palestinian leadership bright. They've been saying that they're victims for a long time. They're doing fine. There's been a lot of corruption in a lot of Mismanaged funds a lot of the leadership is great. They're rich. They're friends are rich. Their their families are rich but the Palestinian people have been stuck in this cycle. So the question question for for for the international world is. Are we going to continue to tolerate this. We've now put together for them is a real offer on the table. You talk about the borders right now under this plan that we've proposed they can double the size of the land that they have available. They can have to fifty billion dollars of investment which will lead to over a million Palestinian good paying. I'm jobs could double the size of their GDP so again. What I've been fighting against is in a logical construct created by people who had no interest in solving a problem? And what we've tried to to do is attack that by putting out a very detailed logical solution so again. I think that people have to look at this fresh. That's one of the great things that President Trump has done on this but he doesn't everything which is he comes in. He's a pragmatist. He looks at the problems and again our economy stronger than it's ever been our country safer than it's ever been and that's only because president trump is putting in place policies. That may you be driving. People who are traditional thinkers crazy but things that are very disruptive and are clearly making America stronger on the on the issue of world traditional is driving people crazy. I JUST WANNA pick you up on what you said because if indeed this is a basis for negotiations and the Palestinians do take up the offer and come to to the United States to the administration tried to negotiate. You know. That's one thing so I wanna ask you then you call it a conceptual map and you've called this a basis for negotiations. The Israeli Prime Minister has stated that this weekend he will impose the laws of the state of Israel. Those are the words out of his mouth on the Jordan Valley on in those areas are in the West Bank equals today and Samaria where there are settlements and other such places and presumably over Jerusalem as well all. I don't know about East in Jerusalem but nonetheless if that happens this weekend is that with the approval of the United States. I don't believe that's going to happen this weekend. At least not as far or as I know but a again a lot of these areas Just the reality is that Israel's they're and they're and they're not leaving. There's never been a deal where they've contemplated doing it and it's not pragmatic I'm not looking at the world as it existed in nineteen sixty seven. I'm looking at the world as it exists in two thousand twenty. You have five million Palestinians who are really trapped because a bad leadership. So what we've done is we've we've created an opportunity for their leadership to either Caesar not if they if they screw up this opportunity which again they have a perfect track record of missing opportunities If they screw this up I think that they will have a very hard time. Looking the international community in the face saying they're victims saying they have rights. This is a great deal for them if they if they come onto the table and to go sheet I think they can get something. Excellent work through it. Sorry go ahead. Yeah I just wanted to ask you know. My time is somewhat limited. But Benjamin Netanyahu paid US specifically great tribute and said that the state of Israel owes you a great debt of gratitude however other Israelis former negotiators people who also also Israeli and Jewish patriots. People who've been ministers in previous Israeli cabinets have said today at least one of them. You'll see Belan. This is not a deal. Deal for Israel. Why are we celebrating it? Maybe for one party in one segment of Israeli society but he said trump has said you can take it all take whatever you want. Jordan Valley Settlements Jerusalem. Take a lot of it annex. It all this will give us one state where we will be the minority onto so that other people have said that today on the idea of state solution not being viable anymore I appreciate you. Give them the opportunity to talk about these things things because when we talk about you know random individuals who don't have a lot of say or maybe knowledge or who tried and failed jared negotiates Israeli cabinet. Miss Okay. How did he do with his negotiations? This thing is as screwed up as it's ever been Christian so look I've been getting criticized for last couple years by all the people who have tried and failed for not not doing this the same way that That they have okay. We've put a real offer on the table. Today we have a unified Israel getting both general and Prime Minister Netanyahu to come to the White House is a historic achievement. What I would encourage people to do is try to divorce yourself from all of the history? That's happened over the years and read this plan. Look at the map and say day two questions in mind number one. Does this make the lies with the Palestinian people much better. The answer is unquestionably. Yes the second question. When does this compromise? Israel's security or does this make Israel much more secure and the answer is unquestionably. Doing this deal makes Israel much more secure why why because it gives them a defensible territory. It reduces tension in the region and it gives them the ability now now that they've agreed to this you're going to see them becoming less and less isolated internationally and you're you're gonNA see more and more pressure put on Palestinian leadership to do it but we've look right now. What's Palestinian leadership? You're talking about them like they're great diplomats. What are they calling for? They're calling for a day have rage. Who Do you know that runs a state? When they don't get what they want? They call for a day of rage. That's not how people who are capable of running a state work so again. The Palestinian leadership have to ask themselves a question. DO THEY WANNA have state. Do they want to have a better life if they do. We have created a framework for them to have it. And we're going to treat them in a very respectable manner if they don't and then they're gonNA screw up another opportunity. They've screwed up every other opportunity that they've ever had in their existence legit again. I just Christiane. We're pragmatists where realist. I'm focused on a lot of problems here in America. The reason why this is important is because this conflict has been has been something that's been used to stoke extremism in the region for a long time. We're doing in a good job of cleaning out a lot of the mosques and restoring the ideology and working with our partners to make sure that people are doing it. But what we've done today will make it much easier. For Israel to normalize relations with people who does not have a relationship with the Arab world. It will allow Moslems who have wanted to pray at the mosque to start coming to the Al Aqsa Mosque. And I think it has. It's the world in a region that's been stuck have the ability to move forward and I'll just say this which is a final thing right. You've been covering this for a very long time. And if somebody was successful I wouldn't be dealing with this and I wouldn't have this additional responsibility to the other things I have. I think that people should try to be optimistic. I think they should root for peace to be successful and I think they should hope that it what happens and again if people WANNA be wise people figure out why this is complicated or why it could fail. There's a million reasons you could do but you know great leaders like President Trump. What he does is he? You try to find a way to push things forward and doesn't let the ankle biters of the naysayers let their negativity drive it forward so again. We're fighting against a lot of emotion and the way we did that is by putting running out an eighty page logical plan. We've put out a map. We've gotten Israel to make historic concessions. We've unifies Israel. I don't know the guy you're mentioning about but we have gaunt's and Bibo showing up the two most popular people in Israel who lead the two biggest parties right now and they both agreed to negotiate on the basis and see. This is a big step forward. So I'm sorry if you you don't if you don't accept this as a major opportunity for Palestinians and a major step forward. I think you have unrealistic expectations and again you're probably stuck with the people who have been busy easy turning this into a cottage industry and not solving this problem. I assume you're not actually addressing me directly so I will put those issues Jenner. I will those this questions I can assure you to. The Palestinian leadership will interview the Prime Minister Tomorrow and we will put some of those issues to obviously the world is also waiting to raise. He's that fifty billion dollars that you promise to the Bahrain conference which the Arab states have not yet ponied up and that is a Christian like to say that first first of all I've had discussions with a lot of the countries on that the money is definitely there. I have soft commitments for most of it. But it's subject to them having a regime where you could actually invest. You can invest in a place that doesn't have property rights that doesn't have governance. You need a place. That's free terror. Would all the business people were saying that conferences were dying to help the Palestinian people we we have a lot of money. We're willing to invest but we can't invest in a place where we're scared of terrorism. You can't invest judiciary. You don't have freedom of France you don't have human rights when you when you interview President boss tomorrow ask them about. I'm going to be interviewing the prime minister one. I'm being deviant for him to go and I'm getting the hard rock from your people but we did say we're going to ask you you another question of the day as you know. Many observers have have have mentioned the elephant in the room that the president of the United States is under impeachment and under the trial in the Senate. The Prime Minister of Israel is under indictment for corruption and all sorts of other things. You are the wrangler for the president's defense. How do you think kids going? Do you think John Bolton will be called. And what do you think about witnesses right so I would like to say that since the impeachment started till now the president's residents risen about seven points in the polls I think are today just came out and said that he had his the highest number ever. Unless I with what's going on in Israel but what I can tell you here is that from the day that president trump got into office. They've been talking about impeaching him. They tried to investigate him with the Russia thing. How many stories on CNN you had the accused me of treason and all these different crazy things? Which I came out right away? I testified for twenty hours and then poof all of a sudden. It's like nothing ever happened right. There's a lot of dirty stuff in politics and again president trump is an outsider. He came to Washington promising to do things. A lot of people in Washington. Don't like it. He's keeping his promises. He's created over seven million jobs. He's taken millions of Americans off of food stamps and out of poverty. Our economies never been stronger and so president trump he he. We have a team that deals with the impeachment. Because it's a it's a nuisance but the reality is we have a lot the people today tomorrow. We're signing MCA. The largest trade deal history of the world deal with Mexico and Canada. We signed a historic trade deal with China just a couple of weeks ago so while all the Democrats are busy going crazy trying to impeach the president he's out creating opportunities for the American people and making the world a much better place so I'll be honest with you. It's really doesn't doesn't take a lot of our time and quite frankly also seeing it on TV ratings they continue to go down and down. And I'm glad we get to do this interview now because if people are watching impeachment. I'm sure they'd be bored out of their minds. Maybe maybe ratings would go up if they saw you. You're very good spokesman for the president. You didn't answer my question about how the defense is going with John. Bolton will be called but will love for another day I appreciate it will. I can answer that. The defense is going great. Honestly I feel like again. It's very easy to defend when they don't really have any legitimate accusations against you so we're very pleased with the defense we feel like again. The president's been totally vindicated. He's done nothing wrong gear and we're very excited to go back to try to do the business of the American people all right and we're GONNA turn back to the Middle East peace proposal that you have unveiled. Thanks for joining us from the White House. How do you judge someone not by what they say by what they do? We're a nation of doers. What's Mike Bloomberg Bloomberg about doing things? A middle class kid worked his way through college. Ben Entrepreneur Bloomberg built a global news and information business from scratch mayor of the diverse progressive city. Mike Bloomberg rebuilt after nine eleven. Creating nearly five hundred thousand jobs improving healthcare and public schools. Now he's running running for president. And Mike's the change. We need from chaos to steady leadership from lies to someone who believes in facts and data from divisiveness to someone. One who builds teams nurtures good ideas and hold himself accountable for results. Mike Bloomberg knows how to leave to build to deliver to do. He'll win in this country will get things done. I'm Mike Bloomberg candidate for president and I approve this message because we need to deliver on the promise of the American American Dream Paid for by Mike Bloomberg Twenty twenty postage rates have gone up again thankfully stamps dot com eases. The pain with big discounts off post office office retail rates like five cents off every first class stamp and up to forty percent off shipping rates. That kind of savings really adds up especially for small businesses. You can forget about inconvenient trips to the post office to since dams dot com is completely online. Use Your computer to print official. US postage for any letter package or class of male anywhere. You want to send once. You're ready drop it in the mailbox or hand it to your mail carrier. It's that simple not to mention a fraction of the cost of expensive postage meters. And there's there's no equipment to lease or long-term Commitments C. Y.. Over seven hundred thousand. Small businesses already used dams dot com listeners. Get a special offer that includes a four four week. Trial Plus Free Postage and digital scale go to stamps. Dot Com. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type. CNN that stems DOT DOT COM enter CNN. Hi David axelrod host of the X.. Files everyone has this story and on the X.. Files I dig deeper than the sound bites has spoke with justice. Sonia Sotomayor about the withering poverty discrimination she overcame to reach the nation's highest highest court and to President Barack Obama about the impact of his valiant mom to learn more about the show visit C. N. N. dot com slash X.. Files or find us. Wherever were you get your podcasts? So we're going to dig deeper into that proposal with two people who've been in the room before on previous peace negotiations Aaron David Miller who worked for American presidents of both parties and Marwan Washer following the Israeli Jordanian peace treaty. He became Jordan's first ever ambassador. Israel I guess I need to ask you both to comment really on what you just heard from the horse's mouth so to speak because jared Kushner has just put forth the trump administration and the Netanyahu administration's the situation view of why. This is a great deal but Christiane this is really a one state. Solution couched in two state lingo. I mean I mean. The plan plans to annex all of the Jordan Valley all of the settlement blocks all of Jerusalem keeps security control in all of historic Palestine with Israel and then claims that is doubling the land for Palestinians. I mean people are not going to be fooled by semantics. Thinks this is a plan that gives everything today and gives the Palestinians only the chance to negotiate the rest of the West Bank in four years. Should they meet this criteria. It is not a plan for a vibrant solution. And it's not a coincidence that the Palestinian side was not You know in the White House today. With with full respect for the Arab countries that were that they are not living on land they are not the ones involve. The Palestinians Estonians have to be satisfied with with a viable solution to the conflict. Otherwise we truly are looking at a one state solution and not a two state. It should the Palestinians be advised to take this as the basis of something of negotiations and engage with the trump administration. This is not a reasonable plan. This is a farce in my view. No Palestinian Arab can accept a plan that does not include dude. You know part of Jerusalem that does not include the right of return does not include a sort of the majority of the West Donkin Gaza. You cannot take all of these away off the negotiations day but then ask the Palestinians to negotiate for the rest of the seventy percent enter sixty percent of the West Bank. That's not that's not a reasonable solution in my view. This is only formalizing an apartheid system with the Palestinians. Let me turn to Aaron. David Miller who has been your partner in negotiations and as I said so many many American presidents from both sides of the aisle. Can you describe what has just happened. Aaron David Miller. And do you think that this is at at least the basis for future negotiations and answer. What Marwan just said about you know is it? A doubling or an increase in the size of territory offered to the Palestinians unions. What about Jerusalem? The president said that you would proudly build a an embassy in that part of eastern Jerusalem. Not East sure so. I don't know whether that was just a Mississippi. A what what what stood out for you. You know I'm one of those failed peacemakers under both Republican and Democratic administrations that. I think Kushner was referring to and I understand his point At we've tried and and some of our ideas were half-baked Most failed in large part because neither Israelis Palestinians were prepared to make the kinds of decisions. My concern is this Christiane when I Mr Cousteau for the first time I said to him I wish half-jokingly I said I wish my father-in-law is much confidence in me. As your father in law has a new because he's given you mission impossible. I said you can't solve this but you can make it worse and in my judgment and I understand Mr Kushner's points. The importance of pragmatism. Tis impracticality importance of broadening the economic horizons of Palestinians. But the reality is what has happened here. Today in my judgment was not a question of peace making it was largely a question of of politics and the administration once again in my view who is come up with a solution to a problem. We didn't have and in the process made that made that problem even worse there was no reason to put a comprehensive reprehensible settlement plan for Israeli Palestinian peace on the table. Certainly not one that carries as many flaws in draws drawbacks as the one Mr. Kushner proposed as my one knows. This is a fraud enterprise. If they were serious what they would have done is spend the hundreds words of hours that are required to meet separately with the Israelis separately with the Palestinians they would have encouraged both Israelis and Palestinians to sit together and they would have mediated trilateral. Three way talks with the US to try to really understand. The needs and requirements of both sides needs and to create a not an imbalance of power but a balance of interests. They didn't do that and they didn't do it. Because the objective of this plan was not not peacemaking it was in my judgment domestic politics and in that they may have succeeded. They boosted Mr Trump stock as a representative the Republican Party. That is now emerging as the GO-TO party when it comes to supporting Israel they may or may not have boosted. Mister Netanyahu's chances in the next election. Who knows knows? And they fundamentally taken steps to revise a traditional American approach to his really Palestinian peace making which frankly it has failed but isn't doomed to failure. And that's why have a problem as an American with what Mr. Kushner and the trump administration has done. Okay so let me just try to understand some of this I mean to be fair Kushner. And his and his fellow administration compatriots. It worked on this for three years. I understand what you're saying. They haven't maybe sat down with the certainty with the Palestinian side for the requisite number of hours that you say but again it just seems that there is I mean even if you just take this deal out of the equation nothing has worked literally literally nothing. So what is the answer. My one from where you sit and as I said two to Mr. Kushner neither Saudi Arabia the guardian of the Two Holy Mosques the so-called father of the Muslim nations nor Egypt nor the Jordanians the only two Arab countries which have peace deals with Israel. Neither of you in the room for this none of you were in the room for this. What can be done to actually come to a deal? What could this administration? I shouldn't have done particularly given its leverage. And it's helped to bb Netanyahu over the last three years. Well could it have done. Do you think it could have offered offered something which is viable as I said which at least the Palestinians can work would right now. What is being offered is basically saying we are killing the two state solution We are for a one state solution. That is what they are saying. And I think in that in that case if that is indeed need what Israel and what the United States wants to do then the Palestinians are going to demand equal rights in the state that controls them and then the international community that Mr. Kushner talked about the international community. If a two-state solution dies is not going to stand still and watch an apartheid system indefinitely if people want equal rights I think the American Congress the American people The international community. It's not going to stand aside if people demand equal rights and don't get them that is what we are talking about. If there if the two state solution a skilled as I think it has been already okay so I wanted to ask you this. I want to put this sound bite from Benjamin Netanyahu the Israeli prime minister because President Trump specifically called upon your King King Abdullah of Jordan to monitor and manage the Alexa Moss and he also talked about is you know formalizing Israeli sovereignty over the Jordan Valley which far as I can tell in any of the peace plan wasn't on the table. This is what Benjamin Netanyahu has said it stipulates that Israel will retain security control in the entire area west of the Jordan River thereby giving Israel a permanent eastern border a permanent eastern border to defend ourselves across our longest mortar. This there's something we've long to have. We have such a recognized boundary so can Jordan except that no Jordan cannot accept that and You know offering Jordan custodianship over the holy places in Jerusalem which it already has is no substitute for a Palestinian state on the West Bank and Gaza and of course in East Jerusalem otherwise if there is no such state tate west of the River Jordan fears that the solution might come at its expense. So there's no amount of sort of bribery if you will that can be offered to Jordan Less than a full Palestinian state and a viable Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza. Let me put you Aaron David Miller what what. President trump is sort of a sort of a mash up of president. Trump's promises to the Palestinian side. This map will more than double the Palestinian Indian territory and provide a Palestinian capital in eastern Jerusalem where America will proudly open an embassy no Palestinians or Israelis as will be uprooted from their homes are vision will deliver massive commercial investment of fifty billion dollars into the new Palestinian the in state you have many many countries that want to partake in this. I'm telling you deconstruct that for us. Particularly the size of the Palestinian state and when he said no Palestinian always really will be asked to leave or up route from their homes on large measure that I think a pretty directed directed green light for for the for the Israelis to essentially sanctioned the existence of Jewish settlements throughout the West Bank. Now under any circumstances look at Gaza took chaperone the architect of the settlement enterprise to essentially dismantle and remove Israeli Jews from Gaza and it was an extremely painful experience. So the notion of having to remove even if you could incorporate the vast majority of the Israeli Israelis who live beyond the Green Line into the major settlement blocks you're still left with roughly eighty thousand Israelis living and in settlements that are not proximate to the Green Line. What Mr Trump has done I think is to suggest that Those individuals and the individuals the blocks Clearly in negotiation even the Palestinians were paired to recognize that some of these key blocks will be incorporated into Israel. I I think the offer to the Palestinians frankly has gone down and this reflects is to certain degree. Christiane the mentality of the the bankruptcy attorney. Where on Friday? If you don't accept fifty cents on the dollar by Sunday. It's now twenty five cents on the dollar and the fact is this. This was one I think of the administration and Mr. Kushner is key objectives to make it unmistakably clear to the Palestinians that they have lost just that the game is over and unless they accept this. Pathway they're not getting fifty cents on the dollar they're not getting twenty five cents on the dollar they may end ended up with nothing and frankly even in the imperfect rule in which we live with all of the flaws of the Palestinian leadership and the Israeli early leadership that is no way for the world's most consequential power to conduct a negotiation. My one is one hundred percent right. If they were serious about about this really determined they would have applied enormous amounts of honey to the Israelis in anticipation of asking when the time was right for the Israelis to swallow the vinegar that needs to be swallowed. If you're going to meet the needs and requirements of both Israelis and Palestinians. Last point. I still I believe I know. Marwan may not agree that with wise and prudent leadership and ownership on the part of Israelis and Palestinians. The idea of two state solution solution is not totally dead but what has trump administration has accomplished. Today I'm afraid is to open the door to unilateral Israeli moves that that may ultimately cause the demise of that solution on the watch of this bread. Marwan Washer Aaron David Miller. Thank you very much for being with me tonight now. Our next guest is an expert in bringing people who are worlds apart together. Ted Koppel is a member of the broadcasting hall of fame who made his name as anchor anchor of. ABC News Nightline for over two decades and in nineteen eighty-eight before they ever were any formal peace negotiations at all. He hosted and unprecedented town hall. Between Israelis and Palestinians live from Jerusalem. Look at that picture there. He was sitting on a symbolic wall created between the the two sides. He's been speaking to a wall to Isaacson about the state of journalism and democracy today with the United States in the throes of this impeachment trial. So you've been to a lot of these wars before these scandals before. Tell me how you think the press is covering this one in some respects extraordinarily extraordinarily. Well I mean there is some phenomenal reporting going on on the other hand I think it is it is. It's too easy for people to quite literally sort of divide the prestone the middle and established quite easily whose foreign who's against attached. And I think that is troublesome because it means that we have lost our capacity to be viewed as objective observers of. What's going on? Do you think newspapers like The Washington Post and the New York Times in particular have moved away from objective journalism especially when it comes to president trump. Let me tell you a story water it. It goes back probably probably about thirty thirty five years. I I was doing nightline at that time I was the managing editor and I called up the reporter at the New York Times. who had done a particularly good story? And I asked him if he would come and appear on nightline that evening and he said said I'm GonNa have to check with eight. Abe Rosenthal at the time was the executive editor of The New York Times. And he called me back a little while later. And you so absurd Sure if you WANNA go do nightline you go ahead and do nightline but then don't come back to the New York tar the point being the and there were actually two points. One Abe didn't want is reporters sharing whatever they're reporting had been with with a rival news organization but also he didn't want his reporters as he put it If you go on couple I was GONNA ask you some tough questions and you manned up expressing your personal opinion. I don't want my New York Times. Reporters expressing expressing their personal opinions on TV. That -pletely has changed. You can't watch. MSNBC OR FOR CNN for that matter without seeing a whole bunch of spirit areas from the New York Times from the Washington Post. And I must tell you on I say this I say this to you and I see you occasionally on on Morning Joe when a reporter from the New York Times or The Washington Post ends up on one of those programs Sitting next to Mika Brzezinski. It's very hard for that reporter porter at that point to lay claim to absolute objectivity whether or not anything that he or she says ends up being being subjective or Enzo P- being perceived as being in favor of one side or the other the mere fact that they are on a program that is perceived as being very left of center and very anti trump I think undermines the public perception of those people as being objective. But don't you think that opinionated journalism is in some ways more honest that reporters have always had biases but now at least they get to express their opinions. And we know who's on Fox who's on WHO's on CNN. What they're saying on twitter AWW facebook? Yeah I mean it's not as though We've never had the opportunity to express opinions before it's just in the past we've limited those it was opinions to the op-ed page And that's no longer the case And and that I think is a step in the wrong direction it it is too easy for enemies of really good journalism. And I don't want anyone to think that that I'm in any way a deprecating creating a what appears on the front pages of of the New York Times and the Washington Post. I think there's some really brilliant journalism going on But a I don't really like seeing analysis pieces on the front page of a major newspaper I think they belong in the back On one of the op-ed ED pages And be when those reporters who's reporting may be absolutely objective appear on on programs that are perceived by almost everyone who watches them as having a vested political interests in one direction or another other reporters end up being perceived as as having too much of a stake in the game no I don't think it's aggressor and so you'd think that cable. TV News in some ways has undermined objective journalism. Well I think cable. TV News in in many respects Look obviously what happened is the first to do. It was Rupert Murdoch over that Fox and it became hugely profitable odd. You may not know the numbers better than I do but I think Fox these days probably earns about one and a half billion dollars a year. That's real money at the time when Fox started doing that. MSNBC he was nowhere doing nothing making zero and it is only when the folks over at NBC decided that they were going into turn MSNBC into a liberal counterpart to what Fox was doing. The they started really improving their ratings and therefore also improving the amount of money they were making. I mean let's not get ourselves. Donald Trump has been very very good food for the business of journalists. Do you think that democracy is getting undermined by the fact that people are getting their news and the information for more partisan and ideological sources. I don't think democracy is being is being strengthened by talk. Is it being undermined. Yes I think that a democracy requires desperately Louis needs what are widely perceived by people of all political stripes as objective sources of news. Otherwise it's too easy to dismiss what is being said by one side or the other simply because they're doing share your political point of view. That doesn't mean that. A network news or cable news or the major newspapers. supers- cannot be very tough in terms of the reporting the do but I don't think they're reporters should be perceived as as siding with one group rather than the other. I think that's I think that does undermine democracy. Yes true though that some stories can be very very anti trump but also be true and that may be journalists. Shouldn't be saying on the one hand and on the other hand they should be saying this is just the objective truth and it may feel like we're attacking trump but two are totally agree with you. Totally totally agree with you. I mean it it used to frustrate the hell out of me Walter when I would see people going out and doing man in the street interviews one side four one against one sure that's not. Journalism Journalism requires that you that you have the capacity to at least lay out the facts facts so that your readers your audience can then draw their own conclusions And when they're in a win the laying out of facts. Looks like an indictment. I don't have any problem with that. To what extent do you think that the Internet and social media has exacerbated so baited this problem huge hugely. I mean I think the Internet has been you know. The Internet is on one level one of the greatest gifts to mankind that we can imagine on another level it is a weapon of mass destruction and is being used assist as such. The fact of the matter is eighties. The Internet which has created things like twitter? It is the Internet that has enabled people of extreme ideologies on the left and on the right to get in touch. Not just with the half a dozen people sitting at the bar who may share their opinion but all of a sudden anyone with access to a laptop anyone with alexes to an iphone has the capacity of becoming a publisher broadcaster someone who potentially can reach hundreds roads thousands You know when you and I were young journalists if you wanted to reach a large audience yet had to work for. ABC or the New York Times so the Associated Press or UPI. It wasn't possible for an individual to put something thing out and make sure that it would reach tens of thousands hundreds of thousands of people attacked the Internet. Makes that possible that that is both a blessing and a curse but isn't it in some ways a not just a blessing but it really democratize is as opposed to allowing gatekeepers. Like you and I want to say. Here's the news. And and if you think the democratization cessation of journalism is a good thing I disagree with you. I don't like it is because whether you know you wouldn't dream of democratising any other profession. You wouldn democratize medicine. Wouldn't democratize the law. You wouldn't democracies aquacise plummet or carpentry. You expect a certain level of expertise you expect a carpenter to have had some training in his trade. I expect journalists to have had some training in his trade by the democratization of journalism. You make the process process available to people who have absolutely no background in trying to present a fair balanced point of view. None So so in that sense you know. Obviously we like to think that democracy is in and of itself and unimpeachable word You know if something is democratic credited has to be good not necessarily sue. Do you think there's any way that the country gets back to what I guess you and I would call the old normal. No no not a chance. So how does this movie go. Well I think we can. We can only express a hope a prayer even that it doesn't go in the direction of violence You know on one one level and I'm not the first to say this won't be the last We clearly are already engaged. In sort of ideological civil war in this country for the time being it has been waged with at least a minimum of bloodshed. I I am wondering for example. What's going to happen? Let's save for the sake of argument that whoever the Democratic candidate is defeats Donald Trump in in November. We then have a period from early November until the twentieth of January that Interregnum period one. Donald Trump is still present. But he knows that he only has a few months left to sir. How do you think that period period? We'll go do you think he will be a gracious loser. Do you think that he will accept defeat And and and reach out the hand of friendship to whoever is going to replace him I don't think so Can I can I see Donald Trump at that point making the argument that The election was stolen possibility. And I think I think there are unfortunately millions of people in this country today. Who would respond to that in a fashion Ashen that I'm not even sure I really want to consider all the consequences of where that might go could lead to violence that she also been pretty bleak assessment of where we are and how it get worse in some ways? People people have compared this to sort of an authoritarian tumbled even the way it was in Germany in the nineteen thirties. Your family family. Your parents escaped Germany. I think in one thousand nine thirty seven got to England. Is that comparison in any way valid. I don't think so now I mean there there is still and I hope to God that we can and that we can defend it. There is still something unique about America and The the many in many voices I mean so far at least it. That's why it bothered me so much when when some people on the lift began again talking early on about the resistance. And when I think about the resistance I think about courageous Germans and and in Nazi Germany. who were who were confronting? The possibility of imprisonment tortured. Death I think about the French Resistance to Nazi Germans who occupied France during World War Two. We're nowhere near that in this country yet and no. I don't see that yet is. Is it possible. We are not immune to the laws of history and if we give up our protections if we if we no longer value the rule of law and the the appropriateness of of journalism awesome. That is much heavier on objectivity than it is an opinion. If we don't value those things appropriately then I fear not that we're going to become Nazi Germany Fascist Italy. But it's not going to be a happy place and we have. We have seen periods like that in this country. The McCarthy era in this country in the early nineteen fifties was is much closer to that people lived in fear people lived in fear of expressing honest opinions out loud. So so we've we've come dangerously close in the past and I think we we are at least in a position Shen today where it's not beyond the question I mean it's not beyond possibility That we could slide more in that direction. But do I see a precise parallel with Nazi. Germany I do not. Ted Koppel thank you so much thank you thank you and finally the ongoing wrestling match between the trump administration and the press intensifies the State Department has bod NPR veteran reporter. Jim Michele Keleman from joining Secretary of State. Mike pompeo on his upcoming foreign trip. This comes days after a tense interview with another NPR NPR journalists and president trump weighed in on that today at the White House unveiling ceremony that reporter couldn't have done a good job you yesterday. I think you did a good job now. House I said. NPR has been barred from POMPEO's upcoming trip. The State Department correspondent association has called the move retaliation and punishment let it be a reminder that the health of our democracy depends on a free press able to bring you the truth that is it for now you can always catch us us online on our podcast and across social media. Thanks for watching and goodbye from London. Yeah and are you interested in learning how enterprise scale companies drive organic traffic to increase increase their online visibility than download. The voices of search podcast from the heart of Silicon Valley Research Metrics Inc.. CEO Jordan Kuni. Does he delivers actionable. 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President Trump Israel president jared Kushner United States Jerusalem Christiane Amanpour Jordan Valley Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu White House Jordan America Middle East prime minister West Bank Trump Aaron David Miller Israel Israel Walter Isaacson
Life or death?

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00:00 sec | 7 months ago

Life or death?

"Very grateful for the opportunity to speak. Today it'd be on the lectureship program. I want to express my gratitude to the elders Brown trail church for the invitation to the Bourne and brother. David Miller for making it possible. Also for me to be with you today and. I'm glad that you're here both the subject and the speaker have been publicized and you came anyway and I'm thankful for that and express my gratitude to you for your presence today. Man is an intelligent being. He was made that way. It is that part of man or at least is one of the things that causes him to be so different from animals. It is that part of man that makes him most godlike but what good is his intelligence if he is not free to choose not only as man and intelligent being. But he's also a responsible being he is accountable. It means then that he has the right to make a choice and then after he has made the choice. He enjoys or endures or suffers through the consequences of the choices that he has made the very fact that man is man carries with it the idea of responsibility and since you our individuals and not simply machines then. We are accountable or amenable. That accountability implies the recognition Ave supreme. Power a power far greater than we to whom we must give account someday if we consider ourselves as accountable and responsible being then we must consider him to whom we shall and will give account but there is that disposition on the part of man and I suppose there has always been that disposition to escape that accountability or to shrink from the obligations that accountability brings upon us. And it's very prevalent in our society today a key ingredient in our society is being eroded and it's accountability nowadays when a crime is committed a lawyer pleads for his client that he's not accountable he is not to blame for his crime now. They're many others to blame. And there is some blame to be given but the criminal the art the lawyer might say the criminal has been victimized east been victimized by the his upbringing his underprivileged upbringing or the area in which he lived and where he was raised. He was victimized by the school. That didn't teach him to read or he was victimized by parents that didn't provide for him what he really needed. So the argument lawyers make is. He's not to blame for his crime. He had no choice but to commit the crime. Yeah don't you believe it? The criminal had a choice and he made the wrong choice and there were so many other other people reared as he was who didn't make the choice. The criminal made. They were more like Mary of whom Jesus said she has chosen the good part Luke. Ten Verse Forty Two recent news program. I saw bemoaned the fact that violent crime on the increase today particularly the crime of murder and I became rather involved. In the telecast thinking that some help might be given to the situation or at least in our thinking so after all of the facts were given and the case was laid out that violent crime is indeed on the increase. And it's a terrible thing. Then the finger was pointed. The blame was placed on guns. There's so many guns that's violent. Crime is on the increase. Nothing was said about the fact that because of the teaching of humanism and the influence of the teaching of evolution man is being bombarded with the idea and the thinking and the impression that life is not sacred and so then because we are losing in our society the sanctity of human life and the idea that man is made in the image of God and that life is precious then. The public is led to abortion and euthanasia and premeditated murder accountability is value. We just cannot live without therefore we need to revive and it but it's up to each one of us to be accountable persons to make the right choices and to live with the choices that we make. We must impose this phone ourselves in countless ways every day these small daily decisions taken together determine the moral fiber of our nation the decisions that we make as well as the decisions that are made by those all around us here is a Great Bible Truth. God holds man accountable for the deeds that they do. Second Corinthians Chapter Five in verse ten for we must all stand before the judgment seat of Christ and we will give answer we will receive the things done in this body whether they be good or whether they be Evil Hall and writing to the Church at Rome agree. Inspiration again said that we must all stand before the judgement seat of God and that we must all give account for the deeds we've done in this body. Romans Chapter Four versus eleven and twelve but the most sacred and solemn things today are very easily turned off by the masses with an empty giggle. There are awesome realities and laugh and only madmen can afford to treat them lightly and one of the most stern facts. That can an immortal soul. Is that our present choices. The choices that we are making today determine our future and unalterable prosperity or pain. Tom was in certain countries when it was impossible for a boy to rise above the cast or estate into which he was born regardless visibility or his lack of ability. His station was fixed by his physical birth. I thank God that we were not born that way. I am so very thankful to God that we can choose and then we have so many choices to make. God made man a free moral agent so that he can be totally free and so that he could from the very beginning. They totally free. God gave to man a choice. Because of God's Great Wonderful Marvelous love he let man be free to choose and since that day man has been free to choose and he can choose his own direction. He concealed his only turn ity by the choices that he makes many other speakers. So far this week have presented to you questions. That are very important. Ma- present to you at this time. Another question equal or maybe even in some cases far greater importance. What choice are you making today life or death? I'm sending before you choice. I'm standing before you proposition. Will you choose life or death in all actuality the the real question is are you choosing life or death by the way that you're leaving even now and so are lesson isn't titled Life Or Death? We wish to point out that all of eternity hangs in the balance for each of us as we make the choice between life or death. And I'm doing this. So that you may be encouraged to choose to obey the will of God and therefore receive life and how we approach our study today. I realized that there may be some of our People in the assembly at this time. Who are former students of mine? Who are grading me. I always take that risk. Therefore it must be hamlet correct. How will we choose to approach subject and deal with it fairly and scripturally as God would have us too? I'm simply using two points today. What I wish to do first of all is review with you. Several cases in the Bible in which God has given us or given the people to whom given the people who were address the proposition of life or death to see what is involved in those cases to see what God's direction is what God's encouraging words are to see how men dealt with those propositions and just in general way in the first part we will look at some of those and then secondly we wished to take just three to focus our attention upon them because they stand out so vivid vividly in the scriptures and because they drive the point home to us so well that we have before us standing the choices live on the one hand or death on the other and that God encourages us to choose live first of all throughout. All of God's teaching in every age he has sought to impress a phone us the need of choosing obedience and live that it brings in the very starlight age of Man's existence. God held him responsible personally and individually for the deeds by him. Don Dat gave the first human couple of law of live and a decree of death. There was a tree of life in the midst of the garden. Adam and Eve were told that tree they could genesis chapter and verse nine that dealt with the law of life they can obey God and that respect and eat off of that tree and live Genesis. Chapter three verse. Twenty two explains that were they to have eaten off that tree. They have lived physically eternally but then there was another tree the tree of life of our tree of knowledge of good and evil rather and in. Genesis chapter two verses sixteen and Seventeen God instructed. The first pair of every tree of the garden may freely eat. That would include the tree of live. You'd mentioned earlier but all the tree of knowledge of good and evil thou shalt not eat out there for the day that you do you shall surely die this dealt with a decree of death. God made man and woman into creatures of choice. Even the first pair work were men and women or man and woman of choice. They could have chosen to eat off the tree of life and live or they could have chosen to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and by they were not mindless they were not purposeless robots programmed to do only the creators will though some who argued that the Bible is not the word of God and it's not written by God because the God of Heaven who is a god of love would not have allowed the first pair to eat and die eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil and die he would have protected them from San and he would have nurtured them and kept them from making such terrible mistakes if he is a god of infinite love. Of course they make the choice to forget about God's justice and then they also choose to refuse to understand that incident love required. God to give a choice. Let him be free. Let HIM BE FREE TO CHOOSE. And so he gave him the choice. They made the wrong choice. The Devil didn't make them do it. He enticed he tempted. They yielded and they made the choice and they chose death that day and then when time merged into the moonlight age the age known as Judaism the same demand and the same requisite on the part of Jehovah was made to the people of the mosaic dispensation proposition was given choose life or death. Look at this dispensation with me. In the very beginning of the dispensation. The propositions were made all four decades. He is relaxed. Spin in the barren wilderness were filled with life and death propositions and I suppose the one that stands out the most the clearest is that choice that was presented to Israel by the twelve. Spies that we're went that had gone into Canaan and return to cavendish Barnea to make their report which was both an evil and a good report. Eva Part of that report was made by ten of the spies. Then on the other hand good report was given back courageous kaylynn judicious Joshua. That's what brother Robert. Arteta calls them. No she really liked the way he puts things. I really enjoy the way puts things just a few minutes ago. Brother Norman Gibson talked about unexperienced. Isn't he left one off? And I'm thinking experiences to speak with the subject it brother Taylor's already dealt with and it's in print about a week ago or ten days ago. I received several books that I'd ordered from the Farm Foundation. One of which was the book of Jeremiah is came as a result of the firm foundation. Lectureship there's brother Taylor's manuscript on laugh death already written for me. I thought about just using it with his permission today decided I would accept the challenge in conducted studying and use what I had already learned from the study of God's word with their Joshua Kalem saying choose laugh we are well able but Israel chose death that day and then before that they chose the worst the calf rather than Jehovah that was laughing death proposition. They chose to tempt God murmur. Commit immorality to rebel against the Authority of God that was given to Moses and Aaron. They chose death in those things rather than maintaining their identity to God and to his good and to all the commandments that grew out of the ten commands. All these choices were laughing. Death propositions forfeiting the former life. They received the ladder. Death Physical Israel was just about slow. Learn the lesson as spiritual Israel is today and then during the same dispensation and the time of conquest there is that famous general Joshua who made that proposition so very clearly before the people of his day in Joshua Chapter. Twenty four is recorded choosy. This Day whom you will serve whether it be the gods beyond the river or the gods of the Amazon whose land you dwell but as for me and my house we will serve Jehovah. Joshua twenty four fifteen live went with the proper choice. Make the ride to us and you will live Joshua what choices that serve. God make the wrong choice and you will die. Joshua what choices that serve the idols? The false gods Joshua did not hesitate to give his choice and to make it very clearly known as from me and my house we will serve the Lord we will serve Jehovah and I pause to examine the choice that he made and I see that he did not say my family without me will serve God and worship him. But I'll be just fine by myself. Nor did he say I without my family will serve God and worship him. There was no divided house. There Joshua saying my family and I both will serve Jehovah God and that is the choice that every family head on the face of this Earth must make today. The served a Hobo God but sadly the converse is true. The morty most of the family heads. Choose the way of death rather than the way of live. Then during the time of the king's life or death propositions were given. There was some forty one kings. Over God's people from the time of Samuel to the time of the Babylonian Captivity Saul David and Solomon were kings over the United Kingdom when God's people were united and then after them there were nineteen kings over the southern Kingdom of Judah an equal number over Israel and each one of these kings had the choice they could choose to obey God and and lead God's people in God's way and living in making such a choice that in most all the cases the people would make the same choice. So it'd be good for the king to choose to serve. God because he would lead the people in serving God but most off those forty one kings chose not to serve God and walk in his ways. I suppose that David and Jerry bomb or the examples given during the time of the Kings of choosing life on the one hand choosing death only other. David is an example the one who chose life and obeying God and having a heart that that God could move and a penitent and contract heart and and a heart that God would not deny sure. David made mistakes very serious mistakes. But he's heart was ride. He chose to do the will of God and walk in the ways of God and thus the Kings that followed David are compared to David. If they did what was right it was set off them that they chose chose to walk in the way of David their father who did the will of God but then on the other hand if they didn't choose to lead the people in the right way live in the right way themselves. It was set off them that they did not walk in the ways of David. And then there's Jerry. Bom On the other hand in almost every king who followed it is set of him that he walked in the ways of Jared Bowen the son of Hebron who Israel to San. So there we have on the one hand king who chose life and the obedience that leads to live and another who chose the disobedience and the rebellion that leads to death in this same dispensation we have the prophets and during the time of the profits. We have life and death propositions given there's a life and death proposition given any sequels error. Rather any lodges error that Great Tischbein who had such a mighty contest with the prophets of bail at Mount Carmel presented to Israel in his day a proposition to choose life by serving Jehovah the only Truman Living God and doing his will and then because of that and giving oneself him live. Proposition is set forth by Leisha. In this way how long go ye limping between the two sides if John Hobie God then follow him but if bail then follow him you see a larger saying make the chores following. God was alive part of that proposition that he made whereas following bail was the death part of that proposition. Then look at the proposition. The days of Ezekiel the Great Prophet of Judah while he was in Babylonian captivity had this the same and he sikio chapter eighteen verses. Thirty one and thirty to listen to his proposition. Cast away from you all your transgressions wherein you have transgressed and make you a new heart and a new spirit for why will you die? Oh House of Israel I have no pleasure. In the death of him. That dive Sayeth the Lord Jehovah wherefore turn you yourselves and live the theme of our lectureship. This week is thus and here. Easy Cheol reminds the people of that very thing thus saith the Lord I have no pleasure in your dance so turn and live. Repent and live issue was very clear to God's people they could do God's will and live or they could disobey and that and then Christianity Christianity just makes the door larger Christianity just in large our opportunity winds adore before us and with that comes an increased responsibility. Which you and I must bear and share become come to the teachings of Jesus Christ and we find they're presented to us the ways of life and death and so many of the parables of Jesus. There are life and death propositions given earlier this week. We looked at several scriptures from a different way in one lecture this week we examined several scriptures we knew very well but we looked at them from the standpoint of the sovereignty of God and we saw some new things. Now Look at the Lord's parables from the standpoint of life and death propositions in the twenty fifth chapter of Matthew we have the parable of the the virgins the ten virgins five of them were wise and five or foolish. The five foolish virgins are called foolish because they chose not to make proper preparation. They tried to borrow some righteousness. If you please some oil and the parable but they tried to borrow some of the righteousness from the five wise virgins. But it didn't work. They had chosen the way of death therefore they were not allowed into the wedding fees in the same chapter the Twenty Fifth Chapter of Matthew. We have the the parable of the talents and in the parable of the talents. The question of the Lord to the servants really is something like this. Sarah what have you done? Or what choice. Have you made concerning the use of that to which I entrusted to you? Jesus came to bring life. He is the way the truth and the life John Chapter Fourteen versus Jesus came that we might have life and the way that we might have it more abundantly John Chapter. Ten verse ten but some would not come to him in order to have life John. Five verse forty failure to believe in his deity. Means at Heaven's door does not stand a jar for the infidelity this believer or denier. John Twenty Four. If you die in your sands where I go. You cannot com versus previous to that he said if you do not believe in me then you die in your scenes. God's plan of Salvation Offers Life in God's plan of salvation is in its Totality it's a life and death proposition. Belief in Christ is a life and death. Proposition without quibble with that argument repents. If we repent we do not perish. Luke thirteen three. We choose not to repent win we will surely perish. Confession is alive and death proposition if we confess Christ before men then he will confess us before his father. Our Father in Heaven Matthew. Ten thirty two. The next verse gives us the other side of they had. Immersion has life and death connected with refuse to be immersed into Christ means that one is going to stay dead in trespasses and sins. There is no way absolutely nine to avoid such a tragedy without baptism into Jesus Christ for the remission of our sense then living the Christian life is life and death proposition. Life is wrapped up in faithful Christian. Living dance is wrapped up in the rejection of faithful Christian living life and death into wrapped up in church. Attendance Bible study prayer life being a good husband being a good father being a personal evangelist or carrying the Gospel into all the world. Life is wrapped up in these things. And if I refuse to live then I will surely die this. What we have seen in general are few propositions made throughout gods were in which life and death or set before the people and now some of these propositions that I have not yet discussed but some of the propositions given in the Bible standout so very clearly and bring the challenges so directly to us that purposely omitted them from the previous point that I may emphasize Dan the second part of the study of what Saith the Lord concerning life or death. Let's go back to the book of Deuteronomy. Please open your bibles to Toronto. Chapter Thirty here indeed. Arana is a rehearsal of the law of Moses and Moab just prior to his death piggy Moses was extremely anxious for his people. He was extremely concerned for them. They're about to cross the Jordan river to inherit to settle the land and they are following the leadership of Joshua. Moses cannot go so he's extremely anxious about the people and in Deuteronomy Chapter Thirty. He sets before them. This life and death proposition he urges he intrigues he persuades and then he makes one final effort to win them over to the side of God by saying Deuteronomy thirty beginning with verse. Fifteen see I have set before the this day life and good death and evil in that I command the this day to love. Jehovah God to walk in his ways to keep his commandments. And Statutes and ordinances that Thou may live and multiply and that Jehovah God may bless the land whether they'll go in to possess it but if I turn away thou not here but shall be drawn away in worship other gods and serve them. I denounce unto you. This Day that you shall surely perish you shall not prolong your days in the land. Whither thou pass over the Jordan to go in to possess I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day that I have set before the life and death the blessing and the curse therefore choose wife that live down there seat to Love Jehovah Die God to obey his voice and the cleaved to him for he is. The link died as that that may dwell in the land with. Jehovah swear onto the Fathers to Abraham Isaac and Jacob to give to them concerning life or death and what Sayeth the Lord. There are at least three things. We must examine from the text that we've just Rian first of all. I want you to see how the Moses pointed out so very clearly that obedience to God's commands leads to life thus in verse sixteen. He says obey God and you will live and your days. We'll be long. This is God's immutable will God's immutable order obey and live. And then the second thing. He says disobedience leads to death and he says several things about that death first of all that death is most dreadful in verse nineteen. He calls it a curse and that death is most certainly verse. Eighteen says you will surely perish. You will surely die. And he says it is a death of which warning has been given to be. Forewarned is to before armed and Moses warn them versus fifteen in nineteen and he warned them with the deepest anxiety with the greatest passion. They had no excuse. Since man's deaths destinies will be decided by their attitude toward these truths and a choice that they're making while they live then the third thing that Moses did which we need to see and understand and practice ourselves as he made this appeal choose life before God. He said witnesses in heaven. I am presenting to you this day. The choice life and death choose life obey God to be. Undecided is to choose in decision to be. Undecided is to choose doubt to choose on certainty and to stand opposed to got to stand against God for indeed as the Lord himself said he that is not with me is against Me Matthew. Twelve in verse thirty so the decision must be made. We cannot attempt to stand in between so as Moses exhorted I exhort you choose life and as Joshua exhorted choosy this day. Whom user. Now let's look at Jeremiah. Jeremiah uses the same words that Moses used but his proposition is quite different. It is indeed a life and death proposition using the same words. But it's much different. Moses proposition was a gracious contrast. But Jeremiah's was not Moses's Choice. Was that between a life blast with God's favor or death in San in the miseries that would follow this obedience but the people rejected that choice. The choice of Moses made for them and the our is now passed so Jeremiah comes onto the scene. Jeremiah says to them in Jeremiah. Twenty one verse eight. Choose life or death but it's a melancholy alternative on one hand. It is a live that can be saved. But it's in the wretched and shameful captivity of the enemy on the other hand it's a death famine or pestilence by the sword if you remain in the city the underlying significance of God's council who charged them to obey by forsaking vacating. The doom city was it. You have the freedom to choose. You can do as you please. God said through Jeremiah. You can stay in the city but you will die and you can leave the city. Which is what I counsel you do. Would you live and servitude? God made man a creature free will and Jeremiah Chapter Twenty one versus eight t eight through ten rather show this to be the case. Jeremiah used the same expressions but he used them to upgrade the people Moses used expressions choose life or death to encourage people to make the right choice Jeremiah. Use them to upgrade the people. The same offer may not mean the same. When it's given the second time all the reason for us to listen to Joshua and choose you this day to serve. God as did he have many characters flash before I as characters to whom opportunities were given to make the right choice who let the opportunity slip from their grass and as far as we know the opportunities never came again how many characters the would be disciples of Luke Chapter Nine Lord. I'll be your followers but first let me bury my father or how about Herod who feared John. Knowing that he was a riot just and holy man and kept him safe. Mark Six verse twenty or Felix who was terrified Paul's Preaching of Righteousness Self Control and judgment in acts twenty four verse twenty five but never made the right choice. As far as we know or King of grip of the king who said with but little persuasion that would make me a Christian ax. Twenty six in verse Twenty Eight and yet as far as we know he never became a Christian. He left that opportunity slip. Concerning JEREMIAH'S PEOPLE. Josephus said they did not believe him and Jeremiah wrote the same Jeremiah. Chapter twenty two Josephus said though Jeremiah was in prison though he was not quiet and he preached and proclaimed from the prison. Leave the city and live. You stay Josephus said yet did not these rulers who heard believe him even when they were in the midst of their sore calamities how sad and how tragic and then let's look at the great life or death proposition that was made by. Jesus himself in Matthew Chapter Seven verses thirteen and fourteen perhaps. The choice was made more clearly anywhere. All of God's Word Than It is here as Jesus portrays for us the wide gate in the Broadway that leads to destruction. There's death or the narrow gate and the straight and difficult way that leads to life but there is life and notice what Jesus said as he began that paragraph in Matthew seven thirteen. Choose you to enter in the narrow gate straight gate. Inner in by the narrow gate. Make this choice. Jesus because broad is the way and why does the gate that leads to destruction? And many there'd be that go in there. Straight is a gate and now is the way leeched laugh and then he follows that with a series of twos and each time we read those twos. We cannot help but be confronted with the fact that there are only two possibilities either life or death. There are two kinds of teachers to him. You can heed the false teacher and the faithful teacher by their fruits. You shall know them. And then there are two destinies to receive eternal damnation and punishment or eternal life after we have entered those two gates and traveled those ways there to trees at bear two kinds of fruits. Their teachers there are two kinds of hearers. The one who hears and does and one who hears but does not do there are two kinds of builders the one who builds upon the proper foundation and I cannot read the Lord's account of those two builders in the closing verses Matthew Seven without thinking of I Corinthians three eleven other foundation can no man lay than that which is laid which is Jesus Christ but there are two kinds of builders two kinds of foundations in two different kinds of results and each time throughout the rest of that chapter. The Lord brings home to us. You have a choice to make and the choice really is between life or death and now the choice is yours. The proposition is the same as that. Given by Moses Joshua Jeremiah Jesus we know different proposition to you then did they. So I ask you to choose life. Choose obedience to the will of God that you may live to choose to obey God's to choose life to choose to disobey is to choose death and the choice must be made today. There's an old old story that is told Ancient Grecian magistrate who had a conspiracy form against his life but a friend heard of the plot to end his life and thus he sent him a message a message of warning by Messenger the Messenger when he appeared to the magistrate to warn him said my Lord the person who sends you this letter implores you to read it immediately. It is of the utmost importance but the foolish magistrate was at a dinner in his honor. He was at a party he said. Lay The message aside. Important things are for tomorrow. Continue the revelry and that very night the plot against his life was carried out and his corpse lay as a testimony to the urgency of choosing life now and we might not have another morning thus we may need to listen to Moses said and choose to obey the will of God that we made live not that we want to live unnecessarily or so terribly long in this life but that we may live eternally in heaven with our God our Lord and Savior now brother. Jesus Christ and all the saints who've gone before us that we might gather around that wonderful marvelous thrown to sing praises to God thrown in the lamb and serve him day and night. Thank you so very much for very count attention.

Moses Joshua Jeremiah Jesus Moses Joshua Kalem Israel David Miller San murder Matthew Seven John Twenty Judah elders Brown trail church Farm Foundation Bourne Josephus Ma Mary Rome Evil Hall Israel Ezekiel
Red Sox Groundskeeper David Mellor on Fish in Fenway and Helicopter Field Drying

Baseball Tonight with Buster Olney

00:00 sec | 6 months ago

Red Sox Groundskeeper David Mellor on Fish in Fenway and Helicopter Field Drying

"Baseball tonight the PODCAST visit baseball tonight. Podcast for Wednesday April Twenty Nine. Two thousand twenty a producing from his home studio in Connecticut. Is Taylor Schwenk? I'm buster only working for my home studio in Just north of New York City and Taylor. You know what I was doing this morning right. I have an inkling. The war continues against dead alliance this morning. A predawn raid fifty down and twenty minutes as had might say I went through the dandelions like crap went through a goose and feeling. Good about a Taylor did you. Did you count all fifty of them? Oh yeah you lay them out for body count. The I had a discussion about this with my neighbor yesterday competing with the best lawn in neighborhood he said you know. I started counting the Dandelions. Because you've been telling me that you've been counting on me. Said I stopped at three. I'm like what's the point of counting the Dandelions but for me it's you know manifestation of my work. That's how I'M KEEPING TRACK OF IT. I. I can't count at bats. I can't town innings. I can't tell looking for things to count and right. Now it's the Dandelions you should ask Tim Kirkman what scorebook uses and by one of them and then keep track John's book. I didn't even think about that. I'M GONNA keep Dandelions Oklahoma. You're right all right. It's appropriate conversation because today as we continue contributors week. We'll be talking with the head of grounds at Fenway Park. David Miller and I'll ask him about dandelions warfare. Also some stories about his time in his work in Paul indicators will jump in with a treetop on the latest news I some of those notes We heard from Baltimore's outfielder trae Mancini. Yesterday who revealed that he's recovering from Stage three colon cancer in doubts. He will play this season. If Major League Baseball returns the twenty eight year old made the announcement in his story he wrote for the Players Tribune. He will also speak later today with members of the media in Baltimore Major League Baseball's allowing teams to offer refunds to fans for games currently not being played because the corona virus pandemic previously games were considered postponed instead of canceled allowing teams to hold onto revenue generated from ticket sales. The pirates are suspending retirement benefits for members of the teams baseball operations staff in an effort to cope with the economic. Fallout of the pandemic general manager. Ben Harrington said Tuesday that the team has been searching for ways to find savings with the two thousand twenty season on hold. I heard about this. That owner Bob nutting has been looking for ways to save money and this is the route that they have chosen. Usa Today reported that appears the hall of Fame Ceremonies for two thousand twenty will be postponed the hall of Fame Board. We'll talk on Friday with an announcement likely to come. Friday perhaps Monday. One of the alternatives being considered is to just postpone the two thousand twenty ceremonies and fold them into two thousand twenty one by the way in the regular Writers voting. It looks like one candidate is likely to get in this winter former pitcher curt schilling and Bob Nightingale USA Today also reported on the three division format Major League. Baseball is considering. We'll get to that in a moment and before we get to David. Hembo a reminder that the F. e. p. pod presses on through the pandemic this week. Sbp AND STANFORD Steve Discuss. Dennis Rodman taking a midseason vacation to Vegas the Pistons. Not Shaking hands with the Bulls after losing plus Scott Yells at Stanford Stephen Big cat over. Ncwa fourteen. They talked to John. Salley Michael Wilbon Jackie. Macmullan find it wherever you get your podcast jumping into the numbers matthew evaluating millions. He's using data in the the Cincinnati by two hundred points. This is Hembo knows and AMMO. Is Paula McKee's researcher and ESPN? Who's a hot show in the show? get up. He says he's ahead hunt show. We have not confirmed that Hembo everytime at and we Bob Nightingale wrote a story of USA. Today about this. He dug more into the idea of three divisions. Possibly if baseball restarts and I feel like every time. One of these stories is published What is lost a context for no fault of the Writers Just because it's published it carries a weight that maybe doesn't necessarily have because they're talking about so many different plans in each has to be discussed. Each has to be vetted each has to be broken down each has to be explored. They're incredibly fragile because he's one executive said to me Yesterday if they restart baseball in one person gets infected. Then they have to shutdown like the UTAH. Jazz did back in March in the best comparison to me is a drowsy clerk. Win that drug. That was has been mentioned in the fight against the corona virus. It's one possible solution but they need to be studied. They need to be vetted they need to look at different elements of it and because it's one thing being discussed doesn't necessarily mean as we learned with the drugs a clerk win that it is actually a solution. What do you think we're so eager for solutions? And that's why we're so eager to jump at the possibility that baseball might return in whatever format soon as possible. But I think that you're right in saying that with no fault of the writers. A lot of these ideas are for lack of a better term pipedreams and we're so eager like they're almost being interpreted by the public as reporting and that's just not the case. I think if I were running Major League Baseball I would obviously be doing the same stuff in terms of outlining all the possible scenarios and. That's good I'd probably be a little bit more vigilant in ensuring that leaked I probably leaked a little bit less or at the very least provided information to the people I wanted to. That was a little bit more in the reasonable side and a and a little bit less on the really type side because a lot of these things that I read are just so And the question at least based on where the world is now that it seems to me sort of a waste of time. I think mainly League baseball should be focusing on a couple things here in particular the first how could we limit travel as much as we possibly can obviously the bubble city the hosts those hosts type cities format like that would be like a World Cup style round robin or whatever the case may be just past him. Get up today talking about that. I think is sort of foundation of something that could work. You obviously have to limit the travel. The second thing I would focus in on the the assumption the assumption that we're not going to play in front of fans. What we need to do is have a plan in place for whenever that does happen. Whenever we can't play games lord willing to we can to enhance that experience as much as possible. Buster everything's on the table. Something as wild as getting ballpark food delivered to you to your home while you're watching baseball game sometime in August should be on the table. If I were major league baseball those two things. The limiting of travel in the in the watching the game watching experience from your television should be the two things to be focused on all right. We've had a great parade of contributors on the PODCAST. So far this week that'll continue in a moment with David Miller. Who's ahead of grants or Fenway Park? On Friday. We will be talking with Janet. Marie Smith who of course was the person the architect who designed Camden yards. And I know Todd Radio. I feel the same way believed that she should be honored the hall of fame because that. Ballpark was a crossroad. I think in fan experience. What do you think dusty the best compliment that I can provide a new stadium that I visit for the first time is every reminds me of camden yards? There's so many things about it that you'll see across the league now in though it's only was built ninety two though it's less than thirty years old. Two thirds of the stadiums in the league had been replacing. There are a few things I'd like to point out just in my travels that I would say Remind me of Camden yards and in all cases. It's a good thing. Exterior brick facade is very similar citizens. Bank Park was the first thing that I thought when I went to my first phillies game in target In Minneapolis targets field both more has that beautiful skyline the way that field position to so perfect and strategic. That was my thought when I was sitting up in a four hundred level at target field. It reminds me of Camden yards. They had these open concourses. These stadiums for often very cramped in the concourse very challenging to maneuver camden yards gets footprint was huge. In relation to some of those older ballparks in reminds me a lot of great American and Suntrust Park in Atlanta and lastly I think the coolest thing about the stadium and I think a lot of people agree is the warehouse. The way that it's positioned it's an outline in relation to the field is so smart and obviously in San Diego. Petco has the warehouse in left field. That's built into it in a similar way. I think that's really cool that they were able to use the The building that was already in place to be a part of the ballpark experience and a half to say the warehouse is probably going to go down as one of the more conic things. That's ever been put in any ballpark because of the character streak like when you see the numbers changing on the warehouse as he does he approaches have been breaks Lou. Gehrig's that is an extraordinary thing bus there and you know to the genuity. Think of that. And then years down the road. It'd be able to be executed in that way. A truly brilliant thing that I don't think it'd be overstated now. I I agree. I'm really looking forward to that conversation and on Monday we're going to talk with Jeff Idelson former president of the hall of fame. We're GONNA get a lot of his stories and he's got a ton of them What's your take on on the in relation to hall of Fame Right Now? Well people ask me what my dream job is there and they usually say I would like to be the shortstop for the Phillies Given the fact that's probably Unrealistic they approach each season be hall of fame. President which is what he was formerly. Would be up there on that list. Field to play golf at those guys and to be you know fraternizing Like that is sort of like the dream for for for someone like me and for a lot of other baseball fans and I think I have. I have to give him. Credit Hall of fame receives a lot of criticism. And some of. It's fair for the way that the way that the last Inter fifteen years have gone specifically as it relates to the steroid users. But I think that's a good thing. Buster because when tells me that people care about the baseball hall of fame way more than all of the other ones and there's real value in that the stringent process for election and away in which voting goes is so much better and more controversial in baseball than any other sport and that's why the Baseball Hall of fame is infinitely better than any other sport and I think? I think you'd agree with me and saying this. Every baseball fan in every baseball writer should visit at least once because it does provide you a different perspective. I'm so tired of hearing the arguments. It's just a museum that is not the case. The Baseball Hall of fame is not just museum. It is part of the Baseball Hall of fame. But the busted a plaque room is holy ground and the way that I view the platform is very different. Pete Rose's represented and Baseball Hall of Fame Museum but he doesn't have a plaque the distinction. There is very important. It's something that you don't really feel unless you're in the building right. You and I are going to have an argument next week. Then 'cause I have always been a baseball museum and and that whole I mean when people use the word holy that's where they cross the line for me but you know what We hit on that next week. Thanks for example Looking forward to it. I'll bring my incident. David Meller ahead of grants for Fenway Park. He's also the author a book published last year. One base it at time. How do I how I survived? Ptsd and found my field of dreams. I in Dave. I was noticing on Amazon a bunch of reviews and pretty much all of them five stars like I've done a couple of books. I didn't come close to those types of reviews on very humble. Thank you for the opportunity to be on your on your podcast. You don't have I'm very humbled by the response we've received you know we. We wrote the book with the that if we could have one person Learn from our challenge it was worth writing and the response has been very powerful. So tell me in your interaction with folks a reaction that you've got that really stuck with you one person who connected with the book and came up to talk to you about it you know. It has just been really The response we've heard from people in all walks of life from the first book signing we had Two people drive up from Washington. Dc was in the CIA one was an FBI agent who had been dealing with PTSD and came to see us. We've had people From Highway Patrol and firemen from people who've dealt with sexual abuse to Rape two fires in their own home to car crashes to all sorts of trauma in their life. And I had someone reach out to me two weeks ago who work was dealing with. Ptsd from cove it and You know we want to let people know that they're not alone. That helps available and that treatment works. You know it's nothing to be ashamed of to ask for help. You know for over twenty years. I kept all my emotions deeply buried inside because they thought it was a sign of weakness to ask for help and now I know it's a sign of strength to ask for help and the response we've gotten from the book Is is shown that that people can relate to that and there are resources in the book to let people know that. Ptsd doesn't just come from From war it comes from any life threatening trauma and it's a natural response to the To trauma and there is a help available and I thought all along when when you when I first started talking about this and you mentioned that you wanted to write a book I thought boy year are in a perfect position to connect with people because of your work. And the fact that Fenway Park is so recognizable and because baseball that people can relate to you. You know through those through those avenues. Is that the what you've experienced? It really has You know the first. Espn e sixty piece that we did with you Literally the very next day The Red Sox Was We're in town and a visiting player? I walked out of my office and my office is right across the concourse from visiting clubhouse and a player from the visiting team was coming in from the team bus and stopped me and said David You know my teammates and I saw the piece last night and I wanted to stop you until you Thank you for having the courage to share your story Because of you sharing your story you know Many of my teammates and I realize that it's not a sign of weakness to ask for help and many of us are going to see our team. psychologists also and realize. It's a sign of strength to ask for help. If you can do it we can do it. That's really great and I see all the time when I'm out on the field that players will stop by and they'll say hi to us they walk by and I'm curious about in in your time in your position. A story about a player that you connected with Players you see and it makes the point coming in saying hi you know. I've been very blessed this. This'll be my gosh thirty. Sixth Year in the majors and I've been really fortunate to you know some great players through the years. You know it not only guys it have great stats through the years. Just you know. Great People From Robin Yount to require Selo Just people And all all stages of their career just been really fortunate to Make some friendships with guys that I say they all put on their pants the same way we do have life outside of baseball. I've been fortunate to Make connections with guys and and You know stay in touch with them. A lot of Will Stop over the office to see Drago Lance mccullers a lot of times. We'll stop over to say hi to Drago You know made friends that way. Too and and If you can exist explain for listeners. Who Drago is and when when you met. Drago. Yeah I'm sorry Chocolate was my service dog. Drago came into my life May Ninth Two thousand fourteen Geragos my service dog. He helps me with post traumatic stress. as well as mobility and he goes everywhere with me Other right now during covert he stays at home I go out of the House but he He's trained not to go to the bathroom on grass and so he goes everywhere on field with me and He is just absolutely other than my wife. My Best Best friend and He's on the field with me. A lot of the players will stop over to to say hello. Get to know them and He's really been an important part of my life. I'm pretty sure that he he's a German shepherd right. We had German shepherds and I'm assuming that's what he is he is. I'm sorry. Yeah he's a German Shepherd. He's he's seven and a half years old and he has literally he's changed my life he. He's an important part of my life and You know there's another DSP and feature called David Drago that. If you're interested you can find a lot more information on how he's touched my life. Yeah and he is is a great personality and I see players come over and and pat him all the time I I'm guessing. Also a lot of your connections with folks on the field through the years have been through the weather You know with a storm front coming in that. Sort of thing I if you had any stories about managers or empires you've got to know a little bit Through three work in that regard. Yeah some of my best friends are umpires. Who I've gotten to through the years and you know one of the first things I look at in the morning other in my wife and Drago is whether and letting the last things I've Work Look at is whether we have some great Forecasters so really get to to work with weather. Shout out to all my co workers who've helped make connections with that and Different people you know through the years really are into whether remember Joe Kerrigan. Pitching coach was into whether I've heard my Mike. Trout is into whether they'd never talked to him yet about that and You know it's interesting. David price was always interested in whether APPs but You know speaking of weather. I remember this morning. I saw on twitter Mlb CATHEDRALS. They talked about They had a picture of a a flood at county stadium on June. Twenty First Nineteen Ninety. Seven in which county stadium Flooded in which. I think we got over four inches of rain that night overnight in which you know forecast was for thunderstorm so he put the tarp on overnight but the rain did what was called training where it just kept raining over Same Line of Pathan has a travel over Milwaukee in which it just didn't stop and so the water kept rising and rising and County stadium was kind of in a low spot came in from the parking lots and just flooded the park but do the hard work of the crew. But we're the water drained away and well that days game was rained out. We're able to get the field ready for the next day and once again it was just a lot of teamwork and That was a fun experience and funded part of how in that situation. How long did it take you to get the feel ready? I had a game on a Sunday in Wrigley Field last year. And I can't remember the circumstances but they basically had to play and so for two days. The brewers in the cubs essentially played a steady rain. And I remember talking with the grounds crew there about how many how many tons of material that they put on the field they literally replace the Infield overnight in terms of material that went in there. So in that situation. When you guys had that Milwaukee New York and how many hours did that require and the amount of labor involved? There's a lot of labor. Fortunately the there was a field ahead of crown to it so the high part of the field was infield skin so the infield skin state pretty much dry but the outfield and home plate were soaked. We actually brought in a helicopter from. I believe it was local channel. Four and as long as they were not having a covered. Emergency around the city We had a groundskeeper in the helicopter. Cab with the radio and they flew over different parts the field We would communicate with on different parts that were wetter than others. They literally hovered over the field. Six to eight hours kind of like a big hairdryer. Downdraft Helicopter was I think. One hundred forty eight hundred fifty miles an hour and We helped you know. Blow dry the field and There was just a lot of teamwork to get it ready. You know while some other rain games you know here the old field. When I came to Fenway Park did not drain. Well the most antiquated field In baseball at that time the last major renovation. When I came to fenway in two thousand one last major renovation to the field is nineteen thirty four it did not have subsurface language so when it would rain hard being on landfill water would be waked up from the bottom as well as water. The top would not drain away so we would often put ten tons of drying agent on top of the grass. And then the next day take backpack blowers Blow a lot of that Drying agent off and save it for Future Day and So it was a lot of challenges with the old field ownership invested in a new field that was put a modern field that was put in after the Oh four world series and so fortunately feel does drained a lot certainly a lot lot certainly a lot of teamwork keeping field zone going with Mother Nature. Well and you told me. A story wants about how The the with the old field that the drainage a backup so much that they would be fish near second base at Fenway Park. You know that is that is a great story and I started At Fenway I sat down with Mr Joe Mooney who was groundskeeper at Fenway. For thirty years and One of the first days we sat down we were talking about how ballparks were similar and different and Joe Said David when it really rains hard but dugout for flood because of the Infield crown and he said Okay Mister Mooney you know. I've seen dugouts flood before you said it's a really really rains. Hard water from the street outside the park will back up from thunderstorm. Come Underneath a city drain and the manhole cover and the concourse will flood the whole Third Base Concourse. We'll fill up with water and I said that a lot of water. He says it really really really rains hard. The first base camera pit or backup with water. From the city streets infill all the way to the top with water and the fish from Charles River which is about a mile away. We'll swim through the city. Drainpipes and swim out on. The field was in January of two thousand one. So I stop Mr Looney was pulling my leg and I went home and told My wife you won't believe the stories that Moody tells well fast for that year. In April we opened early April on a Monday and on Friday night. We were supposed to get a couple inches of rain so we put a tarp on Friday before opening day and sure enough. We got close to three inches overnight Saturday morning when it stopped raining I went out to the edge of the tar early morning around seven and sure enough. We had close to three inches of rain. I walked behind home plate on the warning track. Got Near the first base dugout and there was a fish about five six inches long. Oh my Gosh Mister Mooney. Set me up for a joke. Three months ago so I looked up in the upper deck and yelled his name and I couldn't find him anywhere and walked over to the camera. Pit and sure enough. It was full to the top with water and I looked between the camera pit in the second base position. There were seven more fish on top of the tarp. Absolutely true story I. I wish I would've dry mounted a fish for my office for his office for ownership but the sun came out in the Russia getting ready for opening day through the fish way but luckily I took a picture of the fish and it hangs in my office. Fenway Oh that's awesome. I was GonNa say you know like the Boston Globe? Absolutely love that pictures of fish on the field at Fenway Park Oh yeah absolutely. Now you've given you and I have You give me the tour of Fenway Park in different parts of it. I've been lucky enough through my work to go For example inside the Green Monster in left field of curious. In your time being at the park Is there been like a person. You've enjoyed Giving tour to celebrity. I'm sure that through the years. Some people who work in politicians are in politics might have done that or maybe some former players Because Fenway Park is such a unique place. I've had the honor to meet a lot of Incredible people and and veterans and people you know from the Jimmy Fund really Very humbled to beat a lot of people and I my first year. There was a gentleman in the stands That I got called over to meet and his name was David. Cheer and Turned out he had climbed Mount Everest at that time for different times and they Someone asked me if I could walk him out to the field. He was a huge red sox. Fan and so I walked out to the field and and that they were working on the pitcher's mound I said. Would you like to stand up on the PITCHER's mound and get a picture and he got to the edge of the mountain and took a deep breath and and he says you know? I have chills running through me says I have more emotions running through me to climb up that ten inch mound then I ever had climbing up Everest and I just literally I mean I kinda gives me chills right now just think how special you know Fenway Park Mound is no I dream was always to stand on Fenway Park bounded. I get chills. Every day. I walked down the field and and just to think you know you know somebody who's climbing Everest five times now You know has that. Kind of feeling for fenway really Put things in perspective again for special is yeah and soon as you said his name. I was thinking that you're talking about the climber who is in the book into Thin Air. In part of that movie in the that was shot. That's incredible exactly exactly. You know just always remember that day when John Wayne came here and and I don't know if he remembers saying that. It struck a chord with me. And and I've I've met some incredible. I say wounded warriors and veterans and and and incredible children from the Jimmy Fund. And and you know like you say politicians and athletes and just Some wonderful people who help pre game and I just happen to remember that quote That you offend way has an aura to it and you know you say I get chills every day or walk on field and always remember that that quote now you got into this in part because you love baseball and I was thinking about this today. That In two thousand four. When the Red Sox had that incredible comeback to beat the Yankees they finished that series on the road When they won the world series that year they finished world series on the road in Saint. Louis in two thousand. Seven You know they weren't you know they finish that on the road if I remember correctly in two thousand thirteen though they wrapped up the world series at home. So I'm wondering what you remember from that moment in where you were because your office is down inside Fenway Park and you wouldn't necessarily be at the edge of the field. But in that moment when they wrapped up the world series in fenway. We're worried what he remember you. I remember coming out of the Dugout And it was just magical and You know we had to set up The infield to get The MVP truck on the field and For that celebration you know with the crew on the ground crew hustled out and set that up and then shortly after that was set up My daughter and wife We're able to make it down to the edge of the field and security them out there and So that was really special to have my wife and daughter be able to celebrate on the field with me. That's awesome before you go. I wanted to ask you and I I again thought about this morning in this spring because I have nothing else to do. I've decided I'm going to make the best lawn in Westchester County New York so every morning. I'm out at dawn. Fighting Dandelions and as they prepared myself to ask you this question like Oh my God. He probably has so many people asking him so many questions about lawn care all the time. It's like a Doctor. Being asked for advice on handle a headache or something like that before you answer the questions about Dandelions. How often do people asking you questions like that about their lawn? Oh that's fun. A lot of people ask me questions about about I care and lawns and you know that. That's fun part of the job and you know you ask them about daddy lions. I'll tell you a funny story you know when I was in college I couldn't wait to get my first home lawn. You know I dreamed of I was. I was dating my wife and could we had plans to get married and and I couldn't wait to get my first home. Lawn wanted should be like a pool table with not a weed and site and then when we got our salon we had our two daughters and and they taught me through. There is how they would pick They would find dandelions on the side of the yard and picked these bouquets of Dandelions and they just thought these dandelions were beautiful with these curly stemmons and all the flour and when the dandelions would go to seed and be that big puffy ball they would They call them blow flowers and they would chase each other and they would make a wish and then they would blow the seed heads all over the yard on Giggle and run around and if we could find clover we would sit for. It seemed like hours looking for four leaf clovers and making necklaces out of the flowers and the stems and I quickly realized if they were happy I was happy and my my war on. Weeds was over the literally. My favorite flower right now and ever since has been dandy line in fact. I posted a picture on my instagram account Just the other day of Dandelion and so when I see a dandy lion now makes me smile It Brings Back Wonderful Memories. And you know like life Lawns are all about tolerance. You know it doesn't have to be the the lawn sign in Your Yard. Keep off my grass. Lawns are all about creating memories you know and you know it's about having a healthy actively growing on invest in quality grass seed. You know you get what you pay for. You know investing quality grassy. Now's a great time to change the oil in your lawnmower. Sharpen your mower blades. In fact get a second set of mower blades and once a month. Change Your mower blades. You know we sharp on our plates Regularly and check blades every day. We Mow Because you know we have a clean field it at home. You're hitting Sticks and ACORNS and walnuts and dog toys and those Dang up your blades and make your not sharp so you think of cutting your hair or shaving. What the DOLL BLADE. That you know is not good for your hair let alone your grass so if you cut your grass with a dull blade today it may look green when you mow but tomorrow. Look Brown because all those crafts blades are going to be shredded and those ends dry up and they do two things that don't try your grass out quicker and those sores on the grass. Open it up for a disease and GonNa be injured injuries to your grass And then now's a great time to do a soil test on your on your soil and that's easy to you can contact your county extension agent and do a soil test and that'll tell you the percents sand silt clay in your soil and also a nutrient analysis And you can use that as a base and they'll give you recommendations on what you need for for fertilizer. Never think a little bit good. A lot must be better with whatever fertilizer use whether it's organic or synthetic and never think you know I have a half a bag leftover. I'M GONNA go ahead and use it on my lawn or I'm gonNA throw it in the trash and always be respectful that you're not spreading someone your driveway and leaving it there to wash down you're down into the street or into the gutter. No follow the label on whatever back product you're using the labels the law so be respectful there The spring is a good time to Core Air Rate Now it's still pretty chilly. It's been chilly spring. Certainly in the northeast You can see in the spring. The best time to oversee the ball because the soil is warm The Fall Frost. You know September. The northeast is a good time if all frost will take care of weeds but you can certainly see now Coming up in and when it warms up just a little bit but once again Follow the label on whatever fertilizers. You're using You have lots of options on on weed control you can mechanically take it out You could use corn gluten for An organic crabgrass control. Or you know when it comes to clover and Day No end. You could leave it. You could Spot spray you don't have to go out and broadcast something on your whole lawn But you know it's it's it's certainly wants against about tolerance and you know thinking about the environment when you care for your lawn guilty about my war on Dan now after hearing your story too but I my memory for my son. Now About Dandelions. You're going to be about sending them out to gather a hundred every day. That's his assignment boy. I always love talking with you. I always learn something David. I appreciate your time. Well I sure appreciate all your support in health book. One day at a time can be of support to people going through these challenges with bleacher tweets already buster bleacher tweets four. Wednesday quick one here Adam Smith at Schnittke F. A. Rates in first of all love the conversation with Bob Kendrick enjoy hearing about baseball museums and there was great. He was incredible and he wants. No I guess it really unrelated to this. Could you tell us the story of how slush y you became a vikings fan? Yeah when I was a kid I got my first football cards like baseball cards and One of the cards was gene. Washington who is a wide receiver for the Vikings at that time and I just like the logo. I thought the logo is cool and it probably didn't hurt that at that time. That team was pretty good. The the Purple People Eaters Alan page. Carl eller Jim Marshall and they were successful. I caught because of course now. They played in four super bowls and they've been beaten every time. But I love the logo and I am a crazy biking span love kirk cousins last one today and really just a comment here. Tim Rates in. Hey Buster the fisker hs four claw. We'd Wieder is the best purchase I've ever made for lawn care. I love the pod lot. Thanks a lot of Daniel and Tim after I saw your bleacher tweet one online. I watch youtube and how that works and all I can say is for all my neighbors and family members. They'll be getting a present courtesy of you. I've ordered a lot of the foreclosure leader including one for my son. I'm trying to figure out how to put a titans logo on one to make him really like it. That is in for Bleacher tweets for today and just a heads up you know. We're we're R lean times. We don't have a ton to talk about so bleacher. Twitter's now's the time to get your questions in. I mean we're talking weeds and Vikings today so so ask whatever you will probably making the pot all right. Thanks for listening today. Have a great day and stay safe. Thanks for listening to the baseball tonight. Podcast if you're playing fantasy baseball. Don't forget to listen to the fantasy focus. Podcast CHECK OUT ALL PODCASTS AT ESPN DOT COM. Slash pod separate baseball tonight the PODCAST.

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Elton John

How Many Podcast

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Elton John

"How many how many how many how many one two three four five six seven nineteen <music> Hey? What did I get up to hit little everybody just he's not here? This is Bob. We're doing how many the only podcast that really counts. I forgot the really <hes> Jesse is not here today. He couldn't be here. He's suspension on suspension gender reassignment surgery now. There's there's some big blow. The Lid off junior wants through pull the curtain back on that that he abandoned us. Is he still jail. He abandoned us to work on his real podcast this morning as he skyping Kip Keino Bright Yeah because we understand we do have Kip Keino on a clear cell phone. Now you norm kip. Can you hear me. Yes kip on them. Yes how are you my friend. Reception is not too bad but but can you hear me talking to you now. Getting you call me back no no going up so he thought that was more important than doing how many which is the only podcast that really counts so out of the sixteen podcast that Jesse does we're. We're just how many rank in his sixteen they sell the top ten seventeen. So who's that voice I e we have we have a lot of things going that are not the norm on this particular episode first of all the very gracious Scott Metulla has opened his home to his his his mansion. I mean I'm stirring the right wing refrigerator so involved in the entering the music of this public the so again no problem opening your home to us. It's very Christmas festive at the moment to <hes> and we have a special guest since Jesse. No longer wants to be associated. Ah David Miller there was much yes yeah David used to be a hardcore listener to how many before he was a a technical issue the clippers traction some of the more recent episode. We need Jesse to learn the track pad its worst in show. I just get distracted very easily. While I'm driving down the road and all lack of here these clicks say not listened to edit those out. David told me that I've been adding more the sheriff so thank you so much for joining and one of the reasons we wanted to have David on in addition to being a fine guest is he recently had a concert that he attended a couple of hours. WHOA WHOA WHOA there <hes> yeah I had the fortune to see the Great Elton John last night now known over so maybe under so yeah the captain fantastic author on not not related to Captain D. Part Captain America a great show? I'd Never Kevin Sorenson Not Swanson so that the American Airlines Center so belt lit up on concessions because I see where the concessions very highly sanitary and I did not did not have that I leadbeater because he did you hear about that. Those reports came out one of the ones that do not it was the third in the America report was is based on stuff from two thousand sixteen so it's like two years they have made any sweeping changes should have gotten them up from an maybe Pants D._j.. Was the problem and now they got rid of him and upgrade has always bad unless we're talking about cups is there an F. is great but we'll singly when it coming out when it comes to health inspection you don't want to be eating more has an F.. It'd right yeah pizza off the bathroom for so material recently sent us is a picture of somebody off the bathroom for which harking back to that Feces Pizza <music> crickets you force those in very warrant just like every time I say something hilarious laughter it is unfair. You have control over all of it and post production. Did he do Daniel. It's but yes he doe- rocket man he did KANGOL end runs. There were a lot the five and there were a lot of songs that <hes> he did that. I was a little shocked at the ones that he didn't do have been even more shocked at that really were expecting some yeah so now. Did he do any line. Kings rednecks symbol was in the audience. That's one that I really do very disappointing for read backs into that is absolutely must here we did. How close were you to the state as you can get as far away as you could possibly get so? You're you're. You're you're luxury suite was in the back of the baseball and the state is what good arm throw throw football across <music>. How Much WanNa make a bet? I can throw a football over the mountains yeah coach. We're putting in fourth quarter. We'd have been state champions. Doubt my mind but let's <hes> we we were on the lower level. We were on the one hundred sections lobby speaking Rico. Do we need to do John Meter so John Heater only has talk to remain. It's thirty three okay dynamite blades of glory. That's another good about foreign was the guy the coach or whatever yeah not bad Santa Bat teacher teacher maybe or something like that the gym coach or something he was trying to teach them. I'm movie. He did where like editing along orients like a ghost living in this apartment and the guy that was living in there airheaded neighbor which was the Polian dining Tony Parker research later trailer clip that when I find it to also works pictures presents the story of two people finding each other and so Johnson pretty intense feelings she has for you bro really between the here and the hereafter really pick up reese Witherspoon Mark Ruffalo and Napoleon dynamite John Heater like ninety nine point nine percent parched here can really use a cola just like just like you guys didn't believe me about that carpenter song that was like all face. I believe swerved shown the ditch. Can we get back on the road. So now that you have eight we <hes> we decided that we would go ahead and allow you as yes thank you thank consensus guests to go ahead and choose a topic that you're so close to now okay which is Elton John All right. How many how many does Elton John have now? Everybody say their allegiance are. Are you an Elton John Fan. Yes I have see I've probably got about four of his albums actually on final and a couple C._d.. So I'm an Elton John Fan. I'm not a fan of the Schmaltzy Balaji -ality lush came out in the nineties. Yes early start. I'm in you know madman across the water sheen video news on still standing. We'll yeah and that's also this video when all of those S. G. guys prancing around with body there were some weird video league last night and there's always closeups. Let's see what do you believe. There was some like movie playing behind him that wasn't and that it was like it was the most random thing it was the story that tried to tell I still zero idea what the point was. It made no sense but okay and Bob you as Oh yeah yeah when I was a kid my dad we go on road trips and my dad mom and my dad had the set of eight tracks in two of the tracks in heavy rotation was John's first greatest hits and goodbye yellow brick road so all early the on ever since then I will tell you on outside of his eighty stuff true. I am not a huge fan of Elton John All of the seventy two I do know it so I acknowledge his greatness but if I I'm going to sit down to listen to Music Elton John would not be heavy on the rotation so my number would probably be a little low okay so let's start getting to that so milliman regarded determined that the juniors we got over the course okay I'll go first Elton John. How many we choose what she wants a baseline that we're looking at here? Do you have a baseline of total songs that we can get a wide number on there. There are one hundred thirty three singles singles as an artist seventeen as a featured artist and he appeared on forty seven more so let's limit two hundred. Maybe let's say a hundred okay so out of those hundred I think he will have fifteen. That's actually pretty high number because I even though I don't think he's the greatest I acknowledged that a lot of his songs are very recognizable and everybody knows them so they would since you're all you Elton brand. uh-huh so shooting well I'M GONNA go. I think similar to our our petty cast that I think it will be a higher higher than what you think. It's one of these things that you hit. You're going to hear stuff and you're going to go yeah. I know that I'd be willing to bet that we can get thirty. Thirty aren't okay all right Bob. I'm going really hi. I'm going ago so forty. percent of his catalogue will be recognizable of the hundred that Milliman brought it yeah why is pre out now. I was pretty hot head. You not done the research. What would you <unk> have thought going in? I think I I'm probably somewhere in the middle. Maybe twenty five twenty five twenty five or probably the number so last night. You took your lovely girlfriend with when you say this breaking news breaking news breaking news all right so you've already recent development on bended knees all that good stuff when you see our exclusive event there was no one you didn't see them. Sorry so melanie as big of a fan as you were when you yes she's she does. It's like Elton John Absolutely as big as me. No she's not into music as much as I am but certainly she enjoys his music for sure so you didn't force her noted all she wanted to take. This isn't one where I had to beg and into to go though she had you seen John before so this was a bucket list material it was a big year very similar to when I went and saw Weirdos checked right off her saying twenty time I I've I've seen <hes> billy Joel Madison's getting any one. That's I think Billy Joel has more than now. She's a good that is a good. I was thinking about that on the way here who has more and I would add the more I thought about it. I think you're wrong. I think they would have been the same ties a show that comes in culverts my place. There's two guys that they will. They'll do an Elton and billy they bring in two pianos and going back Julen Skiing Hilton Elton John Billy Joel. I would think I was thinking about that all the way over here because I was thinking I could bring up. John could bring a billy Joel. I feel like the more thought aww Elton John would have more sizable. I think I know more eighties Billy Joel Eighties out and John Rich's why billy Joel's feudal more to the eighties John Ski Laborde of the seven Yes billy Joel eighties catalog is much stronger than scancen. I'm in my twenties. It's out of my wheelhouse. Try Your Call Okay so so the list that you have is in chronological order it is it is it is the appeal of his singles <hes> aw wikipedia now so reliable or something I will tell you Scott when I was doing the research for our next deaths owed I was getting bombarded parted with little pop up boxes saying hey we're really struggling here. Don't ricky dollars wow that into an actually asked them for money. I sent them a message saying nine. Okay so let's podcast is rolling right now struggling all right. Let's get to your listing all right. What are we looking at? First it starts in nineteen sixty eight which I feel like is a little too early. That's right <hes> I don't. I don't know these songs. The first one is I've been loving you which I'm going to assume as as a remake <hes> there's a song called Lady Samantha well. Let's start by saying been logging on anybody. No Oh no but lady Samantha was a cover that there he wrote it but it was more recognizable. Three dog night did a version of its on chillier but no but but it's not it's spirits not a big okay so no two I'll be loving you know to lady Samantha's five. I've been loving me Otis Redding. There's there's another one from nineteen sixty nine. It's me that need me to my song <music> okay so we're not gonNA count <hes> what was called. It's me that needs needs me care whether or not the song was written bail or top they're almost all written by Bernie Tone Aw Thomson writes the lyrics and music by trying to figure out like when the two of them got together because he mentioned he mentioned that they've been writing together for fifty years or so so they all these songs that I just mentioned that parallels looked at were also written by because if top because that means that if it was sixty eight that means that he started writing with topping Thomas Eighteen year yes he was on this so I think was seventy really that's a yes so sixty seven would be nineteen seventies border saw while you may not have on his greatest hits. You don't eat the Franklin do yes aretha Franklin did it. I used it was like I used to think it was called old man Moses because I didn't my here at my car and I look forward to track the money part of it where they say oh man Mojo. Let's over yeah. That's right the only it is even sale but it's but when he sings things that when you're a kid you don't have the lyrics in front of you. Just hear what you think make. It work yeah so that one charted at ninety two in the U._S. right. Yes so anybody so you know that I know I understand that I understand I am why wouldn't count because it's not a huge though it's only it might have been ready to when it when it debuted but everyone knows that song especially with Aretha you'll be yes absolutely and Scott. You know okay now because I've never heard of it so you tie ever heard it no. It doesn't sound familiar so he's GonNa. He's GonNa spotify it and they never see it kind of sounds like you're saying old man when you're like nine years old about seat of a car but you have enough votes yes Nixon from nineteen seventy s rock and roll Madonna. I gotTA BE HONEST AW I didn't remember the saga. I'M NOT GONNA lie so automating. They didn't say that it turned it anywhere. It says it's a non album track. That's never a good sign right so okay so does not make our from Denver to L._A.. Not Familiar even says in the description non Elton John Decide. I decide so the next one is a song that I thoroughly love. It's called Country Comfort. Do you remember the song I have to hear it too familiar and it says has it charted at Number Fifteen New Zealand. Basically it reminds me of like John Denver Song. It was written by Bernie Calvin but calm it. It's you guys recognizing a great Song News. It's such a great song. I can understand why nobody knows it. It didn't chart but it sounds like a John Infra Song to me. I've just always loved the song here's the deal as the bringer of the list. You do have the option you can use an exemption emptions yes. What do you want to use your exemption this early for? This doesn't have one example limited number of exemptions either. I should probably give it just a certain number of flags before only for this one because I feel like the rest are pretty well known and this one is one that I love so much that I would have to say you know what we will count okay perfect. Thanks over a love that your next one. I think everyone is going to know oh your song that one sounds liver body is on this was his first big hit in the United States. Yeah we know this yes. I know this and it says it charted as high as number eight. This was his first big. Eh Yeah it's amazing. The next one is called friends McCain. That's actually I it was on the movie. Soundtrack was on any of his albums. The friend severance knew all there was a movie Iran said yeah so it had Jennifer Aniston was like one thousand nine hundred seventy Jennifer Aniston was a drop. Maybe a little older than that okay so I'm enough familiar with friends but you say you know I know but I don't think it Y'all are GonNa Count Yeah I do too. You have three three but I assume it's the engineering and everything thinks of no one told me live. It's not the traditional edition of San Engineer and I wish everybody could see the visual of four D do fake Ross. You know not sure this Rachel team. <HES> <hes> enough already come on friends will count friends workout. Vex One is a song called Leon Ed. I'm wondering this there's a I'm looking at albums because I know with Milliman has as looking at singles and there's all a lot of times. There's a song that won't be released a single but ends up being hit one. I think maybe that he skipped over was take me to the pilot. Do you have that on your list not been mentioned yet but that's it may be order down his list okay because I'm looking out on my album so that's a great point though because it is not listed on this on this list of that is one of my favorite song yeah. That's a big one into a write in for that one. I'm not familiar with it. So can you take me to the penny do that when I can show you a little video. Do you think in the I'm still standing video. There was a lot of me to go as g okay so we're going to take me to the pilot as a write in it's often here's your video of him. Performing that song last night actually did some bootleg reporting authorities the Dow pretty good visuals there yeah that is Roy Moore talking about it was really cool. That is really close Loyd. Thank you okay so we had already discussed. Leave on right so everybody agrees leave on account leaving leaving. Do you want to play a little bit of that. Got Another about another quick right in because this is one. I knows not going to be an assist. Burn down on the mission. That's absolutely one of the best all right you have enough votes working at the the albums. I'm just looking at the singles. Absolutely there's a lot of detracts from the eighties. He's so the next one on here tiny dancer closer I it is yeah yeah absolutely reading this almost famous movie. I think it got a second. You got a second life. Yeah yes so one of the more misunderstood lyric a hard time misunderstood until it came out on friends though because I feel like Tony I heard that for like I'm not a fringe P.. One I will I will make my affiliation and I've I've never really watched friends. Oh you didn't watch friends for the veterans related t-shirt or so Untidy A._C._M.. The stealing of all of the chicks on friends Lisa Kudrow I think was the hottest one. That's that's a that's a big big statement. You're wrong. I ed they share the the biggest Diablo's and I think she was the prettiest I think she's prettier than Courtney Cox and Jennifer Aniston even Bruce springsteen dancing in the dark courtney Cox because she has nothing top at that coordinate college. It's Jennifer Aniston Jennifer s over the long haul yeah she better. I will give you that Lisa and Romi Michele's high school reunion sheets the renewal ooh fake mirrors with that story Moose he he is saying that big conor big dig claim that he used to have out of Mira Sorvino when he was in kill dozer kill billy or whatever that band was that he had never heard this story what happened. How did he not close the deal on that? I mean he closed that. What you mean like permanently permanently clue she was already rich before we're done here all right next rocket man yes did you already mentioned leave on account so rocket segment although Captain Kirk version and I think it's GonNa be a long time brings around again to five ah the hero honky Lca cat very very much better get back Miss Dis redneck? We's money out. They won't recognize it better. Get method this we then I. I've not familiar with this but it doesn't rock. Have you lived under dude errands early early seventy born yet but there's a thing called radio plays songs from the heard this song being heavy rotation on Classic Rock I do in from this album. Mona Lisa's and mad hatters absolutely one of the editors and anchors tons of lawyers while I here's the law turnarounds monning this number is going to be so inflated. There's a lot of padding co said forty forty for a reason this song release. I've met with thirty since they lose to see this is so foreign to get to the money shot Dang. You'd never say I am hurts for the songs that you it's the only gets eighties like it legit. I I will say this isn't born in nineteen seventy six and I love being younger than me there. You go see you have to understand. He thinks her mix a lot has twenty six twenty. I see it sounds like he should've taken me those concert in edgy absolutely so honky honky tonk cat smile and so yeah next crocodile rock that all right good it down. You also can't show you you also mentioned Daniel Pre show just Daniel but that when he scored his brother for being blind is that what the whole phone is part of that song and you'll my brother. He says he mentioned last night. He talked about that saw that there was a a last verse that he left out because the song was already so long the really explained the song and so it got misinterpreted a lot. I kind of thought you'd pop out his gay lover. I don't think soon wine away. I don't think so but it was <hes> it was interesting. Christmasy lasers that lasts for some time a new song Saturday nights ball right for Saturday. Hey Chris McCann Levers Daniel. You harder <music> all right so the cube were so he is going this is this is his farewell tour last last plans on touring so the name of the tour was farewell yellow brick road but the name of the song is goodbye over the concert for for last night correct farewell girl she wasn't. I'm barely standing the circuit of debt. Is there any follower of a threat than this is it. This is the final tour was nineteen eighty two and they've had about one how many tourists has kissed. You really want it the best you're GONNA get this. They're coming back in like July. You saw here right. I had tickets. I didn't get to go. Actually they come through again. I need to go because I've never seen how many rotary road trip tour. I mean it'd be very far. They're playing at what they see all of which is an original or just Oh Joan and gene simmons and Paul Stanley juice freely or event finals reward that that's a big plus uh-huh. That's when it's <hes> we're recording this right around Christmas time the song step into Christmas. That's one of my favorite all right. Just kicking nuts in this does not sound familiar what you vote Yes for. This Tula hates it so much. Let's but of course I would. I would say yes. It's a very well though I did charts in a tiny livewire Ireland Ireland. It reached his highest number twenty in the U._k.. It reached number eleven. It sounds like that beats him more than wonderful Christmastime veep scores. I could call my son right now. I go Gaza top five worst besides and both of those Paul McCartney Eh God about the album okay so over a year by over growed other songs on there that may not have been singles. You got funeral for a friend level leading I would count that they would count that. Take friends slash love love lies bleeding eleven for you. Don't know vote Scott on this campus day benny and the jets wasn't is in the Senate. That's already started tonight. He started with the jets and Melanie called it as a matter of we always be that Nice game. What do you think's going to be the first song she said billion the jets and I said No? Oh that's exactly what she was she. It was going to be like an encore of did he. Oh Yeah Yeah for sure yeah. It's only because another instance where somebody always has to do an encore unlike when we went and saw Richard Lewis and he refused to do encores stand up in the jets said it was if it was she nailed it so that's always crack me up because it's fake live like they have fake fake craft yet on the song is like it's not like if you listen to the song with nearly the chew righted Canada cockpit album. One of them is grey seal. You guys know that one song but I wouldn't I okay and then the other one I'm going to demand makes the the list and Scott's GonNa know this one. All the Girls Love Alice Yeah. It's all less chemo's Lavar different. How many I think it was the horror thing how many when we were reviewing a movie called Alice beyond girls that song if greatness that's probably top five my favorite John Songs all the new sound familiar at all? I think it was it was a yeah but it's a big A._O._R.. Stay you WANNA use an exemption to leave exemption. They're both on award with it. Okay all right candle in the wind. Oh yes the Christmas tree the overplayed and then when Princess Diana died and they redid. That's what killed me. The original version realizes was that it was originally Marilyn Monroe but then they redid hitter gotten Princess Diana Princess di lookout for that barrier. Did you get Chidi by Eh that Berry lased will live with tall all right. Don't let the sun go down on me. I I always thought son was S. N Dang it so we're all saying yes yeah and then he do at live AIDS. He did one with George Michael ooh singer Laura Beck Song. The Bitch is back yeah. He did a cover actual rich yeah he did his cover. Devon's was to number one it it was it was. It wasn't that Tommy Number one in the U._S.. Over in the U._S. so Tommy John's greatest hits volume two to bad back cover here but it number one huge yeah. It was a big hit so I think we have to count it. There is Philadelphia freedom see all of these. I know that song but I thought that was like an eighty sides. These phones were sold. Someone saved my life tonight. You know what that Song So. I didn't even realize that song about until recently he that song was he was he was doing a Freddie Mercury with the big show like beard trying to present having a girlfriend or fiancee or whatever some schick was really trying <music> get married to him and he finally like I can't do it. I can't do it. This guy is producer talked said look dude. You're gay don't don't do this. That's who saved his life saved them from being fake straight Bake Mary big. I'm not familiar with it so did let everybody give it a yes. Maybe I will. I think the beginning if you've heard the song requisite <music> someone yeah I'm not familiar with it but it sounds like you have enough also that that album captain fantastic was the first album ever that debuted at number one on the charts the first album ever that is impressive all Beatles albums they they never debuted at number Williams's debuted number one on the US billboard two hundred the first album ever to do so sold it went platinum and four days. This is one that's the year I was born just amazing so harry politically incorrect island girl yes i. I gotTa tell you talking about living in a white man's world. It's Edberg politically incorrect and certainly I know it but what I counted. It says it's not it was number one. It was a big hit. I mean we have to count it then. We can't whitewash history. That's fair in the next one is grow some funk of your erron. I feel like a bullet in the gun of Robert Ford. I don't know this so I don't know this. He did a remake of pinball wizard Tommy. That was the timing everybody nobody count that one pretty big yeah he was in that movie Turner was in it. The Great Anwar is in the being seen. Yes peens Oh yes. They're flicking. No that was rolling around what you shake. Laugh is the fiddle about seen locally fiddle fiddle boat is. I'm glad you feel me mind been peddled up. They don't go breaking my heart. Yeah that's a gift love. Side did okay so breaking my heart one of the Songs Kiki seventy eighty six although you'd think it definitely sounds like an eighty song it's a yes it has very issue but you know it and you have to agree that it's catching breath and I liked Kiki dee so I was what's the other one she does. Yeah I got you okay. Sorry seems to be the hardest wor yeah yes. It seems to me that it does not sound familiar well. He's giving a terrible reducing motion point. You know what I have heard this okay. It's also a great song again. I thought that was an eighty song seventy six. It's not so sorry to be the hardest for me six. This one is a crazy water and I don't know this crazy water. Anybody I used to live Neil young and crazy water back to offer bite your lip get up and dance also with Kiki Dee Fun in another key thing was that his I don't know that he was gonNA end up marrying. I wonder if she had kiki bb cubs. Can we play crooked there. Were no bite your lip and I mean the the discography over there with the album's mic there something else that was that was a bad album is he really starts going downhill. This is all Oh really super coked up so it's about to get the eighties. We're about to get the eighties. We're going to skip through these pretty quickly because I don't know any of these the gold digger song anybody familiar with gold diggers goal she what she gave him part time love is a good song but I knew stevie wonder Ed's part time lover time when he and Bernie split there was time where they were writing as much probably all of this because I don't know the Song Song for Guy Return to Paradise. Are you ready for love part. One Mama can't buy now that is greatness. Mama can't buy you love Mama don't want you don't want to give it up baby baby. Mama can't buy you love it. They can't buy that was favorable. Johnson city sold up okay. Are you so hard pressed for this that you wanNA use an exemption. You know those this one on. I just really like it got to it. I do run force it on you but I can't use a no an exemption for but there is a clever about johnny be good anybody familiar with this version of tiny go the Elton John version. I probably heard it. I'm a huge fan of the song Johnny Big Log to get collector selections of the Chris McKinley. Johnny be hard Johnny Bohol so now we're getting into the eighties we are so we're going to. I don't know some of this early eighty stuff little Jeannie Yeah Little Jeannie. I know that one you got so much to be my acrobat <music> you got yeah yeah. I know this is not like that one. Do you want to count on another sign. I'd never heard before but this is a shake laughs on title especially considering his tendency at the time white lady white powder calories talking about uh sartorial eloquence. Don't you WANNA play this game. No more nothing dear God certainly deserve you but no ecstasy dear God starting to serving but ecstasy now. I'm GONNA do like four. I saw her standing there with John. Wooden not familiar but I don't know nobody wins. I don't know this just like Belgium khloe. Were we blue eyes belies. That sounds familiar. We got blue. That's that's a good song yet. It's a good song. That's one of his rare good eighty songs. He's got some. There's water good eighty songs coming up including his best song which will be coming soon. Actually there's another song on that album yeah. I know this doubt let's all right so they'll count that one right now. I'm GonNa let him keep going but if he misses it. I'm going to bring up a write in that album. You're probably GONNA want to go in and bring it up empty garden. Hey Hey the big John Lennon tribute. It's an as well but I don't know this. I don't remember that one's greatness. You know that one right Johnny Mark would you come up in my anti it. It was big John Lennon depth zone. Yeah debs bit yeah big eighty one right after he passed it sounds familiar I think I would count them down Princess Ball and chain all quiet it on the western front but then we start getting to the greatness I guess that's why they call which we're not that was during the heyday of the Mugu era and so that ended up being relabelled Magoo Carey Scurry polity to do that one so we could black him so another one that you mentioned earlier. I'd still bill standing his best song we call. I guess that's why they call it the blue his best song and his best video your because of all of the close face shots yeah. We know you know ending with the stars. You know the Bruno that Judge Bruno uh-huh guy. He's one of the dancer's body painted up probably so the next song while it doesn't have a big following. I really loved the song as a kid called kiss the bride yes one actually I would probably say that's his best eighty song. Get to the money shot this. This episode is beating in the seventies eighties pretty much the beginning of the he would south after step into Christmas <music>. Here's a recovery. Do you want to count kissed the bride I do yes. I'm counting that I'll I'll allow all right crystal cold as Christmas too low for zero. Now I feel like I know that song but I can't he didn't chart at all did but the next one is such a great song said so yes or foul turn it all that you know sad that song says passengers and saying where's the shoes who wears these shoes. I remember that but I don't know you know. What are you doing in breaking? He never heard of that while here active war. That's one that <hes> you know always Nikita. Oh Yeah Yeah Yeah melodies favorites. What is Nina? I know this one but is beating it is we should probably counted finality in maladies honor. I think we should go aren't subject object. X One is rapper. Yes Oh account that I'll take no <hes> <hes> I is that a yes. I have a whole different. It's George idea that this rapper up is George Michael The it's got George George Michael has like he he is Andrew originally or G._T._e.. Follow like panic include all that are you counting counting or so only solo goals combined you at least him rapper up. Do you want to count it but you don't have to. Attack cried habit heartache all over the world is going the he released your saw with the Melbourne Symphony Orchestra big hit now the only also over the pilot I don't want to go on with you like on a one go do you. Oh do tell of plenty. I don't know that one <hes> a word in Spanish awesome fudge more healing hairs sacrifice sacrifice. I know I know is supposed to countdown one. I I would vote Yes for that but okay okay it at this point if I know it would counts probably unfamiliar with his whispers Amazes Me Club at the end of the street you gotTa love someone easier to walk away and Blue Avenue the don't let the sun go down on me with George Michael from that live aid or from the duets album. Excuse me the Malek Album wasn't bad reports. No Elton. I'm John was an M._C._a.. Records time back and I was working with M._C.. Got Sent to you for free like a sample yeah. I got a couple of his L._P.'s. That was a big player back in the day. They had Leonard Skinner. I heard they had Elton John there. A lot of big letters entered Oh different birdie on at least maybe maybe eight cable. You're older southern at your underselling but I like it <hes> the one so this was his big album from the nineties pre lion king got <hes> product sold a lot of that <hes> runaway train with Eric Clapton Bruce ever. It's not that one but it's a good song hold on you. Do you really not remember this or you just ruined by Tom Petty runaway train that was a good though and like it was on a <hes> on a lethal weapons. That sounds like a soundtrack. Yeah I think it was I think it was on a lethal weapon soundtrack. I'm familiar with homer into the money. Shaw it does sound like would fit on illegal weapons credits rolled over. Maybe they just walk into a bar. They need to go investigate something. Does it is very roadhouse. Okay so do we want to count runaway train. Okay the last song simple live true love resent their slow Kiki Dee. Don't go breaking my heart with Real Paul Shaky ground with Don Henley. I don't know there ain't nothing like the real thing with Marcella Detroit Great Song but they'll here's where you get to the beatings in my opinion according to Scott we've been in the beatings last hours and <hes> yeah so any wind king related you gotTa Count Right Yeah. Both of those are first ballots aw you gotta get those yeah goes believe made in England. That made in England beats me. Are you familiar with maiden England. I mean it's an album but I there wasn't any hits on not mean signal song was Beijing London. It's just it's not good. Come out the last please you could make yeah. I know blessed but I would accounted you. Wait accounting okay live like horses something about the way you look tonight. Obviously live like horses with them at the song. Jayme Gum was dancing now. That's not fresh horses right career something about the way you look tonight. We didn't already include that. Did we yeah from like the RHYMES. There's one that but something about the way you look tonight. You don't remember that so you know this is Sinatra <music>. Okay we don't have do you want to include that when you absolutely oh my okay that'd be yeah that'd be the only one that fight for <hes> then he goes recover your soul hole if the river can been written in stars with a step too far someday out of the blue friends never say goodbye oriented T- thousands now. I want love this train. Don't stop there anymore. I we're globe is the video that he did with iron before has come back. Are you ready for love. It goes on for a few more songs. I don't know any of these electricity the bridge good morning to the night sad Mexican vacation occasion. Let's call it a wrap on the where you didn't listen. Listen to show why we did <hes> what's the other one so rb ready for a total absolutely right you win forty one Mellon you were at twenty five and I was at fifteen so I was way way way off how there's no way billy Joel has forty one is good. I agree I agree. I just think we know I think there was a lot of Paddington. The stats here though songs you start counting them. Ah we can see every one of them. That's all there is to find and just boggles say I guarantee allies Bluh Bluh Bluh I and do you sacrifice sacrifice sacrifice yeah. That's that's. How does that strong so awesome for presenting all of the research? Thank you for letting US know how many L. John had also to reach us Bob. I am on twitter and my handle is luke warm tall boy. Let you get the having new I random name generator Scott Underscore Matola at the twitter Scotla Tula without the underscore already taken thinks go on twitter at blind Millo be Lionello Jello metal poker term it is not it is domino domino domino's thing me at Mexican underscore junior on twitter you can email the podcast how many podcasts at g let's not anything you disagree with. If there's anything that we did not include that we should have or that we did include that we shouldn't have you can let us know and we'll just throw your email away because they're you can send us pictures of your girlfriends or wives naked yeah. If you want to send nudes to we'll we're definitely open to that. <hes> don't forget there is a youtube channel now for the how many podcasts so get our views up from one to two as soon as I thanks guys. Come talk to me sometimes sweetheart. I know what it takes to be cool. Shit pack my bags last night preflight zero nine A._M.. And I'm going to be <music> has a by then and I think it's GonNa be the <hes> long long time to touchdown brings me round again to find another man. They think I am at home. Oh no no no. I'm a rocket man rocket man <hes> burning out his fuse out here and I think it's GonNa be a long long time to touchdown brings me round again to.

Elton John Billy Joel Elton Scott United States Jesse Bob Kiki dee George George Michael Elton John All David Miller Tommy John Daniel Elton John Fan Kip Keino Milliman Jennifer Aniston Bob KANGOL
March 17, 2019: Mosque attack in New Zealand and fallout from latest Brexit vote

Fareed Zakaria GPS

41:48 min | 1 year ago

March 17, 2019: Mosque attack in New Zealand and fallout from latest Brexit vote

"You see the cat and all of a sudden you're star. Yeah. I'm a hero radio revived seven people put them. He's not on the front page will have split up for you is it because you're black. No you racist. Because people love cats. Coma. FD on through TV. This is GPS the global public square. Welcome to all of you in the United States and around the world. I'm Farid Sakaria coming to you live from New York. Today on the show the mosque massacre in Christ Church. The prime minister called it. One of New Zealand's Darcus states will bring you the latest. And Brexit great down. What's next on Theresa May's quest to fold Britain out of your? Also, Ukraine will elect a new president two weeks from today? Russia has been trying new ways does cyber meddle in the elections. Might this be Putin's test dried for the twenty twenty American polls. I last the man who heads up Google cystic company that monitors encounters cyberattack. Then the two thousand eight Mumbai attacks a city invaded by terrorists who killed scores of people. But also a city that fought back these stories and a new film hotel moon by I'll talk to the star. They've patel. But first, here's my take one of the great strengths of democracy. Is that bad policies are often reversed? That's a consolation when we look at the flurry of pandering programs being enacted as the populist wave works its way through the western world. When a new government is elected much of this can be undone except for Brexit, which if it goes through might prove to be the most profound and lasting legacy of this decade Britain famous for its prudence propriety and punctuality is suddenly looking like a banana Republic as it makes reckless decisions misrepresents reality and now wants to change its own self imposed deadline as Martin San boo writes in the political quarterly. Brexit has always been a solution in search of a problem to me the best evidence of this is that Britain's Euro-sceptics generally want to leave the EU because they see it as a state. Juggernaut. But in virtually every other member country eurosceptic see the EU as a free market juggernaut. That's why they don't like it. So either all those other countries twenty-seven countries haven't backwards or Britain's Conservative party has gone nuts. When I asked Anne Applebaum last week. How historians would understand the road to Brexit? She suggested that it all centers around the conservative party, the Tories could probably claim to be the most significant political party of the twentieth century governing Britain for most of that period producing Churchill Pacha and other icon ick western statesmen, but after the Cold War as left wing parties, abandoned, socialist ideas and move to the center the right faced an identity crisis in America. This mobilized the Republicans to emphasize, social and cultural issues, like abortion, gay rights and immigration in Britain Tories found themselves in the same mushy middle that prime ministers. Tony blair. David Cameron inhabited. So as apple by noted they went radical on Europe. We're all very of the drama of the country. No. Keep in mind. Brexit will be a disaster as San viewpoints out. Britain's economy is competitive and productive only in high value manufacturing and services, both of which depend on a deeply integrated market within Europe, the foreign policy and backed of Brexit might prove to be even more consequential within the fierce Scotland and Northern Ireland will probably loosen their ties to Britain in order to maintain their association with Europe the United Kingdom will then be reduced to just England and tiny Wales. London. A city that has shaped global affairs for two hundred and fifty years would become the west Dubai a place where lots of money sloshes around. But of no great geopolitical, consequence Europe will also lose a lot with Brexit Britain is a big vibrant economy. It's been a crucial voice in the community for free markets, openness efficiency, an outward-looking foreign policy. It has a powerful army that it deploys as non western countries like China rise, the central question of international relations is can the international system built by the west that has produced peace and prosperity for seventy five years last or will the rise of China and India and the revival of Russia eroded and return us to what Robert Kagan calls the jungle of international life marked by nationalism. Protectionism and war the world order as we know. It was built over two centuries during the reigns of too liberal Anglo superpowers Britain and the United States Brexit will Mark the end of Britain's role as a great power. And I wonder whether it will also Mark the day that the west as a political and strategic entity began to crumble. Go to CNN dot com slash free and read my Washington Post column this week, and let's get started. We will get back to Brexit and a bit. But first the massacre in Christ's church New Zealand. The death toll is now up to fifty to put the number in perspective. More people were killed in one hour on Friday in two mosques in Christ Church than were killed in all of New Zealand in 2017, New Zealand's, Prime minister has vowed to change her country's gun laws and her cabinet is meeting. Tomorrow to start those discussions joining me now to discuss our David Miller ban, the president and CEO of the International Rescue Committee. He was the UK's phone secretary from two thousand seven to two thousand and ten and we slaughtered the CEO of the think tank new America, she was a top official in Hillary Clinton State Department, and Ian Bremmer is the founder and president of the Eurasia group global risk consultancy. Let me start with, you know, the the big picture on New Zealand and Donald Trump was trying to suggest something I wanna ask you in. Whether it's true, which is this. This is not a big deal in the sense that it is not a global phenomenon. I think that again he was implying. It's not like Islamic terrorism, which is know is a widespread phenomenon with many centers states that have promoted over the years these are one off events and while they're terrible and tragic. It's not, you know, I think that I think that's what Trump was trying to get at is that a fair point. It's not a fair point. If you look at the United States that self in the last ten years, if you wanna look at all of the extremist violence in the US seventy percent of those attacks have been carried out by white supremacists on the right? There is still of course, a danger of Slama terrorism in the United States globally. The numbers are much more tilted towards his Lama terrorism. Most of that violence staggering overwhelming number is about Muslim terrace on other Muslims in Syria. For example, once you take those numbers the numbers go way down. Absolutely. And if. The argument is that the United States has overspent and over hyped fear about extremist violence and terrorism as a whole post nine eleven the answer that is certainly yes. In the context of what else we could be spending that money on. But I'm pretty sure that's not the message. The President Trump was trying to cross to his supporters last week. David Miller, Ben what does one do about this? So you have this, you know, some segment of the white ball relation. That is enraged by immigration by what they see as you know, changing culture, how should politicians deal. The first thing is that the numbers that you size at the beginning on shocking. But the most terrible thing about this week is that in some ways we shouldn't be shocked. We had the Finns repack attack on the mosque that we had the attack on the tree of life synagogue in Pittsburgh, this is a global movement. Founded on a hate on the idea that western societies are being quote, unquote, invaded by other people. And that says you've got to think both about defense. You've got to think about how do you make sure that you track these people you find them that you ensure that gun laws are of the appropriate kind. But you've also got to play offense because that hateful ideology, the hope not hate which is an organization in the UK dedicated to exposing these essentially fascist organizations are up to what they talk about an ecosystem of far-right. Hey and that takes offense as well. If you're going to break it up and make sure it doesn't become this kind of global movement. I just wanted to say this as well. I don't think people know that in to my knowledge most of the effort of western security services is now dedicated towards the danger of far-right extremism, more effort delegates to fall, right extremism. And it's potentially violent impact than it is to Muslim Islamic terrorism. And obviously they feed off each other. And that's the other element of this. I think we have to watch the ecosystem of of hate is David says have you been surprised by how many of these? Kind of groups there are in the United States in Europe and places like Austrailia in New Zealand now because this is it's a it's a movement. It's a white power movement. It's a it is a terrorist movement that has a common both ideology and methodology, and it's very deliberately trying to fly under the radar by portraying people as lone wolves as disturbed individuals. When actually they are in, touch, and they're also citing each other. I mean, the shooter in New Zealand cited the Norwegian shooting cited Dylann roof in Charleston, and at least in the United States. We simply have not paid enough attention to white, nah. White extremist violence white power. We pay much more attention on the left, but his Ian said actually seventy percent of the attacks in the United States since nine eleven have been extremist violence on the right? What do you make of the manifesto view? Well. I mean, we've talked a little bit the United States. Everyone said, oh, he's been inspired by Trump's seventy four pages. There's one reference to President Trump where he says that he likes what he's doing in terms of supporting whites but also strongly opposes policies overwhelmingly through the entirety of the seventy four pages. He's talking about Europe. This is a person who was radicalized much more inside Europe inside France. He goes after Markle says Merkel's enemy number one he thinks he caused the death of Erta one the the level of identity politics, white on Muslim if you see the average French they think that thirty three percent of France's Muslim when in reality. It's only six or seven percent the most popular nonfiction literature a few years ago was this submission by Michelle back, which was all about the Muslims taking over if you really wanna talk about where some of these ideas have been germinated are exploding across the world. It's not here in the United States. We like to think it's all about us. It's actually in Europe. And that if you look at where his idiot has come for where he's been motivated inspired from. Those are the problems are we we're going to have to come back to all this later. But we when we come back. We're going to talk about Brexit, and what the hell happens next. Hiring is challenging, but there's one place. You can go were hiring is simple, fast and smart that place ZipRecruiter with their powerful matching technology. Ziprecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invite them to apply to your job. Ziprecruiter is so effective that eighty percent of employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day and right now listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at his exclusive web address, ZipRecruiter dot com slash GPS. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash GPS. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. It was an extraordinary weekend. British politics for those keeping score at home this week. Members of parliament voted down. Prime minister may second try at a Brexit deal voted against the possibility of a second referendum and voted to ask the EU to delay the date of Brexit. It's a bit of a rush on this one as red line is just twelve days away. We are back with Anne Marie slaughter. David Miller band, and Ian, Bremmer, David. You're the Brit here. What what is going to happen on Tuesday? I will you cool my country a banana Republic in your introduction. And I'm not saying that Reeves me, very, very deeply. This is not a laughing matter for all that you are enjoying this because the truth is that the referendum that was held three years ago has driven a stake into the of parliamentary Representative democracy is left MP's not knowing what their job is is it to use their judgment in the best interest of the country. Or is it to follow a direct? Of the people that itself was completely unclear and its meaning. And so where we are. Now is a situation where I mean, another distinguished culminated in the UK today called Brittany global joke. So you're not alone in this where we on today is that MRs may has said if you don't follow me, then I'm afraid there's a gun on the table, and I'm gonna have to blow your brains out. An I still think there's a chance in fact, a better than even Charles that she will get her deal on Tuesday or conceivably even Wednesday and deal means that that's exactly the right question. Was that deal means the Britain will leave, but it does not define the future relationship of Britain with the European so all the arguments that are made against the second referendum that it will divide the country that it will prolong the Guinea that it will fuel the fall, right? All those things are going to happen as Mrs Maes, quote, unquote deal is shown to be a quarter of the way towards the long-term relationship. The Britain needs on economics on security policy and on the rest of it. So I'm afraid what Mrs Maes deal offers is more agony for Britain and the parliamentary arithmetic, plus I have to say the real fear of the labor leadership of going in for another friend. The means that she's likely to get it. And that will only preside age further real trouble for the UK economically. There's already been an economic cost, but also politically, and when you were in the State Department you dealt with a lot with the European your European counterparts. How do you think the Europeans are looking at all this and looking at Britain kind of go through kind of national trauma slash suicide. Well, I think with with amazement with its watching the Britain, essentially, commit suicide as power as your your. Column makes clear on the other hand. They're also saying this is the cautionary tale there, many Europeans that are saying this will actually strengthen the EU because we talk about a Greg's it and a it in every conceivable version of that. But looking at just how hard it is. And what it's doing to business confidence actually means that it's strengthening the rest of the EU on the other hand. It's a terrible thing because the EU will be weaker without Britain and just watching country self destruct. The distinguished scholar of European politics and husband Andy Mirage, it says in wrote this in the look at the end of the day. They're not gonna leave. They can't leave the comic. Logic is too compelling, and you you will end up with a Norway type situation where there is some association with Europe, and they'll accept most of the paean rules bizarrely. They won't have much of a vote. So it's a slightly worse deal for Britain. Let life will go on does is that the most likely outcome. So the other side of David's call where may might get her deal in the run-up to the the final deadline that they decide that they can't get that. Because a longer extension is plausible, but goes beyond the term limits of European parliamentary elections nine month, a twelve even some say twenty one month delay, and what we've seen from a lot of parliamentarians in the UK is to the extent that you can delay the final day and avoid taking tough decisions that you personally don't wanna be response. So for just like in the US, you're willing to do that. Now, I think that's reasonably likely, but I would also say that most of the real pain of Brexit is already being experienced. The UK has already lost a lot of that credibility a lot of its capacity to be a global in a European leader. A lot of the jobs have already gone away the trajectory of the UK economy compared to the economy's has already deteriorated. So as we get through not just these votes, but then the additional years of working out how that transition actually occurs. The other shoe that we're all waiting to drop will have slowly slowly hit the ground. David y is the left not playing a role here of saying we demand the second referendum weaned, we'll campaign on it. Britain's future is inexorably tied to Europe. I mean, what happened to the labour party or Tony and David Miller, a two reasons really the first reason is that some of the later liberated themselves extremely sceptical about the European generally against joining the European Union in nineteen seventy five. Okay. Quote, unquote, socialism in one country crowd who believe that the answer to the pressures of globalization is to put up the shutters and try to build your own fare economy and society. Hope that's one reason the second this fear of the electoral consequences, a two thirds or seventy percent of labor voters voted to stay in the European, but a significant number of labor seats voted to leave the opening in my former constituency had never liked to anyone other than the labor MP since eighteen thirty two notorious being elected to the only constituency in the country, but he voted sixty five percent believe and among some labor figures. There's a fear of the electoral consequences of being seen to deny the electric what they voted for. That's why are spent three as foreign minister argument against a referendum between two thousand seven two thousand ten why I quoted Clement Attlee, and I quoted MRs Nacho referendums are the refuge of Titus and demagogues and in a parliamentary democracy you risk referendum. Not just the writing the result. You're risking actually. Oh, a Representative democratic process. And that's what Britain is struggling with the now, you think that the the only way to undo the effects of the referendum is to have a second referendum. You. You can't stop the Brexit process. Simply by annulling. It will take a doubling down. And I would say this, which I think is important in Ireland deep questions of national identity around abortion around gay rights have been resolved through Reverend names that have been very Catholic. You rated with citizens panels and really have involved a doubling down on democratic and popular enraging to try and mitigate that demagogic dictatorial aspects of the referendum process. Fascinating. We've got to stop this fascinating stuff. And we'll get back to it. Next on GPS. How did America go from having almost the top life expectancy in the world to among the worst among major develop nations today? Sunjay Gupta has a fascinating report on exactly that. He'll be with us when we come back. Tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses. Our friends at Zanny optical offer, a huge variety of high quality stylish frames and state of the art optics starting at just six ninety five. You can get multiple frames with this great pricing for less than one pair. Elsewhere start building your eyewear wardrobe from the comfort of your own home at Zanny dot com. With the latest trends in eyewear available and hundreds of frame styles and materials there isn't a better way to change it up for every season. Plus is any offers prescription sunglasses at incredible prices visits. Any today at Xeni dot com slash CNN. That's Z E N N, I dot com slash CNN. And now for a what in the world segment. One of the experts in Dr Sanjay Gupta's, new HBO documentary. Tell him that health gives us a measure of how we're doing as a society. If that's the case American society is in trouble take just to statistics life expectancy has been on the decline in America for the last three years that hasn't happened in one hundred years the documentary points out, and then there's this in the nineteen sixties. The foam says Americans had among the highest life expectancy in the work. Now, it ranks toward the bottom of the list of major developed countries Sanjay's, of course, CNN's chief medical correspondent as well. As a practicing brain surgeon. And he's diagnosed the heart of the problem in a new film called one nation under stress it premiers nine pm eastern on HBO March twenty fifth Sunday, you you point out that the the decline in American numbers. Comes very specifically from a particular segment. It's blacks where the mortality rates are actually declining. It's not Hispanics. It is just whites. Mostly. I think. Between fifty or forty five and fifty four mostly with a high school, but not a college education. And you say that what that tells us is that this medical problem is caused by essentially inequality and dashed expectations. Yeah. I mean that that's really yet. I mean, when you look at these numbers, you just quoted read it's worth pointing out first of all look at other wealthy nations around the world that may have gone through some of the challenges ups and downs of the economy and the labor force over the last several years. They don't have the same problems. There mortality rates continue to go down in a good direction life expectancy goes up. So what is specific to the United States? What is specific to whites and what is specific to the white working class as you as you said Farid, well, this idea that these are the sons and daughters of the greatest generation, I mean, the the idea was that they were supposed to inherit the earth or certainly inherent the United States at least at a minimum that. Did not happen automation outsourcing jobs left wages, went down. And now they find themselves dying at a faster rate freed than any other cohort in the world. And again compared to develop nations compared to other populations within the United States, the white working class in particular continues to decrease in life expectancy, and this idea of dashed expectations causes a psychological trauma that that is actually well documented there's this amazing monkey study that you that you show in the documentary. Tell us about that. Yeah. You know, we really wanted to approach this from a sociological angle but also a developmental biology angle. So in this particular experiment to get to monkeys Capuchin monkeys. They're doing task, and they get a reward which is a cucumber over and over again at some point the monkey and the right starts receiving a grape a more desirable. Treat look at that. Monkey in the left's recognizes this and gets a cucumber again. Can literally is not sure to make of it sniffs it and throws it back at the examiner. I mean, the they were perfectly happy with the cucumber over and over again. But now the glaring inequality the glaring injustice is obviously causing stress levels in that monkey and the left because he's now see that that inequality face to face. What is interesting as you think about this experiment for read was that the stress levels went up in the monk in the left subsequent experiments show that the stress levels go up for the monkey on the right as well. No matter where you are on the spectrum. It turns out living in a in a society that has glaring inequality is bad. It's unstable. It's unsettling and it's stressful. That's that's part of what we saw you have a friend. You guys grew up in Michigan together. And you say his a middle class kind of guy. And yet he is more stress than you, a brain surgeon who also has a CNN. A job. Explain how that could be. I think people tend to equate busy nece and amount of work that you have to do with stress, and that's actually not as big a predictor, we've found of the sort of toxic stress that we're talking about when you're when you're sort of middle middle management or middle-class, whatever first of all you could you could easily become upwardly mobile, but you could also become downwardly mobile. So you constantly have this sort of feeling of you don't know where you're going to go that loss of control that inability to feel autonomous with regard to your own destiny that turns out to be very very stressful as well. So people often think of the very poor people living on the fringes having the most stress, and they're the lots of reasons they do. But if you're constantly worried about coming down or going up, you're not sure which for my friend, Frankie that's part of the most stressful thing in his life. Fascinating Sanjay Gupta. Thank you so much for for joining us and make sure to watch the documentary. Thank you. Thank you for one nation under stress premiers on HBO on March twenty fifth at nine pm next on GPS, Ukrainians will go to the polls in just two weeks time to elect a president Russia's already meddling in the election will the vote behalf and what can America learn as it best for its twenty twenty election dock with that story in a moment. The cases we gotta find who wrote this. No, we do that. We find the killer. This science defined out. Police used Luminol a chemical which glows when it comes into contact with the iron component in blood that drama, but where was the rifle, and which man was telling the truth for renchik files. The legendary true crime show is now a podcast. Join investigators they take on the toughest cases with cutting edge scientific tools. Subscribe now with apple podcasts with new episodes every Monday and Thursday, you'll never miss out on getting your forensic fix. When you cranes. Go to elect the next president on March thirty first which is just two weeks from today. They will be faced with the list that started at forty four candidates. There's now somewhere south of forty the top contender is a comedian. And that is not a joke. The current president petro per Shangqiu is close behind as his former prime minister Yulia Timoshenko. There is also a candidate named Yuri Timoshenko, and many observers believe the other Timoshenko is there simply to siphon votes away from confused citizens who make the mistake between the two of them that is far from the only trick that is being played in Ukraine's elections. And there are lessons to be learned as America prepares for its own presidential election next year. Jared Cohen joins me now he is a former top State Department official who runs jigsaw, which is Google sister company that among other things works to combat fake news and hack attacks. So Jared good it so sort of like, Google geostrategic arm, and you're the CEO. Why would you go? Ukraine of all countries. What free first of all? Thank you for having me. I think the question I would ask is why would I not go to Ukraine Ukraine is an innovation hub for the most nefarious Iraq tippety happening in the world. That's where you have innovation and disinformation hacking of traditional systems and infrastructure in addition to the deployment of these tactics in a military context. Why why Ukraine? Why does it have all this? Well, because right now, we're all thinking about how do we protect democratic institutions? What do we do to make sure that there's not a repeat of two thousand sixteen in twenty twenty and my view is there's nothing that Russia will do to the US that won't do to Ukraine first and worst, and we're not going to solve the problem of how do we protect ourselves against hacking of the twenty twenty election by just analyzing the president or just looking backwards. We have to forecast what's going to happen. And if I'm going to forecast what's going to happen. My goal is to find the places that are adversaries or using target practice. So what did you look because you went to Ukraine you've been to the dawn best of the part of eastern Ukraine that is sort of odd. Occupied by the Russians. What did you learn about what they're doing? Well, I we saw a number of tactics that we've never seen before. So we're seeing the systematic and customize targeting of disinformation on messaging platforms. It's very clear to me that the new front for disinformation is platforms where the barrier of entry is a phone number. It's much more believable. If somebody's in your contacts lists, and you get information from them, you're much more likely to believe it. We're seeing the manipulation of audio and the spoofing phone spoofing phone calls. We're seeing manufactured revenge porn manufactured having of emails that then get dumped onto the public domain, and we're seeing a growing ecosystem of illicit merchants who are selling these capabilities to the highest bidder on the deep and dark web. So when you when I hear all of this. It sounds very difficult to figure out how to counter it. Do you think the American government is on top of this? Do you think the Trump administration is sufficiently attentive to it? Well, I think what's interesting about Ukraine. You have the convergence of foreign policy and domestic policy from a domestic perspective in the US. We care about protecting the election, but Ukraine is a very important foreign policy priority. If we connect to all of a sudden, we look at building resilience and Ukraine as a very effective way to protect our election and Ukraine has something very interesting. It has some of the most robust civil society in the entire world. But it's one of only two countries where it has world class engineering talent who also understands geopolitics just because of where they live Israel being the other example, the problem is civil society doesn't have the technology expertise and all the engineers want to work in e commerce, and they're losing the commercial advantage to Belarus, right right next door. So if you look at what the US government can do the US government has lots of mechanisms to support civil society, lots of resources to support civil society. And it does it all around the world. But the US government can bring those two ecosystems together and build world class companies. Invest in world class capabilities to fight this information, and you. Cran? This is happening with cybersecurity all of us rely on top world class talent for dealing with hacking and traditional cybersecurity issues in Ukraine because they're the best in the world. The same can be true for disinformation. Do you think though that the? Is the Trump administration sort of attentive enough to how how malign Russia's let me ask you does the strike you that this is all coming out of Russia out of the Kremlin. And the the attempt is to de legitimize the Ukrainian election. They're certainly an attempt to de-legitimize that Ukrainian election, and particularly at a moment when the Russians don't have a chance of of having their candidate when running too low in the polls, you know, one on the one hand, you have democracy working pretty well and Ukraine right now because nobody knows who's going to get to the second round, let alone who's going to win on the other hand that ambiguity makes it more of a target for Russia. What we're seeing also is the democratization of these capabilities. So the Ron's we're all of a sudden, you know, making similar attempts in the US midterm elections. We've seen other countries get into the game. So, you know, Russia has a particular focus on Ukraine, but the capabilities are going to be on full display for other countries to latch onto and they're. Plenty of countries out there that have an interest in incentive to try to disrupt the US presidential elections. Let me switch tax. Finally, just ask. You you watch the New Zealand tax, of course. And you you hear about how much of it was an online phenomenon. The the the terrorists were in some sense fed the stuff online they posted online. And then they broadcast online does social media have a responsibility. How should we think about that online component? Well, of course, of course, they have a responsibility. I mean, I think as I look at the horrific attacks in in New Zealand, there's a long tradition of deeply disturbed people espousing hatred, and then trying to engage in violent acts as a response, Nick. What's different in the social media era is the access that they have to niche communities that aren't constrained by geography and the access they have to instant superficial, internet fame. Thank those two incentives are new in the air of social media and some. In some of those issues that the internet has created a wonderful thing. I mean, does that allows all the stamp collectors of the world to kind of reinforce each other? And and game comraderie, but it also provides this dockside for people who are demented. Of course, in my view is the internet to me is still a net positive. I'm I'm an optimist about and I think that there's two things we have to be cautious about one not to neglect all of the benefits that come with the internet. But at the same time, I think that we need to be responsible and pay attention to these moments where we're seeing darker side fascinating. Jarkko pleasure to have you on. All right. Thank you for it next on GPS, the inside story of an earlier terror attack. It's now a feature film hotel Mumbai. It's all about the heroes of the two thousand attack on that city. I'll talk to the star death Patel and the writer director. When we come back. When as many as a thousand guests and over five hundred stop trapped inside. Remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. On November twenty six two thousand eight ten members of the Pakistani militant group lush. Gary Taiba arrived on the shores of Mumbai are with guns grenades. And as they stunned the city with a series of gruesome attacks at six separate locations. Reporting to command us back in Pakistan during a rampage that lasted for three days the terrorists killed more than one hundred sixty people and wounded hundreds more. This was a personal story for me the terrorist last stand was at the college Mahal palace hotel when my mother had an office. She edited the hotel groups magazine. Luckily, she was out of town. Can't like been two dozen nine. I narrated a documentary for HBO called terror in Mumbai, which featured phone calls intercepted by Indian intelligence services between the terrorists and their commanders in Pakistan. Ceelo engine income over pitfall. Now, the story is being told again this time in a new Hollywood film hotel Mumbai which intertwines the stories of the terrorists who wanted to pay for their families, the fearful guest strapped to the dodge for Jay's and the brave hotel staff who stayed behind to help. It's a story about the very worst. And the very best of humanity. That is. That is. Thirty five years. This is my own hotel Mumbai premiers nationwide on March twenty ninth this I'm joined by one of the film's stars, Dev Patel, and it's co writer and director Anthony marris, thanks for coming on. Thank you. Anthony. What did you learn about the terrorists? Because what strikes me about the portrayal which is remarkable in vivid and accurate? I think is that they are so calm in the way, they go in and slaughter people much like you hear about the New Zealand attacks. You know, where the was was it a particular kind of training within naive. What did you learn about what motivated them? Well, we went through the three thousand pages of documents for the trial of entrepot Kostov. We heard those one surviving to wants involving surviving gunman, and you know, it was over many months that not just the final ten terrorists that made it into him by there over one hundred people originally hundred young men from impoverished pots. Of pakistan. Who bought into the training camps? And they whittled them down over the course of many months, not just looking at who could shoot the strata store who is best physically necessarily, but who could take an older, and who could be relied upon to you know, to continue the attacks and the more than anything else. I think you know, what became really clear through reading these transcripts and through listening to what had happened live play-by-play account through these incidents, but the the insecurity forces made was you know, was just how strong that brainwashing. Was they they had. You know, it was it was a very difficult, and you and you put one thing which I remember being again true-to-life, which is they'd never seen a hotel of this kind before some of them have actually never seen flushing toilets event. That's the thing. It was a huge chasm in terms of education. You know, they come from very impoverished backgrounds and that will easy through radicalize and and that came through in spades. And the incidence. They've why do you put up a you portrayed as a Sikh? You know, this northern Indian religious group that was the has a turban and a beard was that a conscious decision? I think that was one of fast means Anthony, we had this kind of a our scripts session part of it was wanting to stretch myself as an actor and kind of come in and body a different kind of performance space. But also I read these articles during September eleventh about these seep seek cab drivers that were being targeted. And just the ignorance to their culture represented who they were what was striking to me. And I pitched it to Anthony because this hotel essentially is a microcosm of India. You know, you've got the right. She got the poll, you go staff members, you've got, you know, billionaires coming in from other countries, and you know, when the terrorists strike, this one place, you are able to have a discussion and break down barriers of naivete, essentially, and that's what he's done. So there is a is a religious man who is holds his religion is for front, but he uses it to guide them to help other people. What did you learn about the hotel staff because you know, one of the most extraordinary things about the whole Mumbai attacks was the, you know, the the hotel staff, which is, you know, kind of a private sector, but a very great hotel respond with this incredible sense of public civic mindedness. With the guests. They the police the actual public sector. It is basically a hopeless job. You guys perpetrator the a little bit better than it was the actual reality. But the hotel staff were incredible would did you spend time with them. I mean, I've spent time at the Todd, and that's where I saw some some waiters and some staff members wearing turbans. Yeah. I mean, there is a slogan in the kitchens, which you bring up in script, which is guest is God, and that the level of service, and the the the level of gratitude, they have this place is a sacred to them. It's represents opportunity to many people coming from the streets and getting a chance to work in a place, which I think was like is one of the first places to have electrical team Mumbai. Absolutely. So it it. It was a it was a beacon of of real aspiration to the people, and they you know, we read accounts in in the in the transcripts of waiters and staff members putting on baking trays and arming themselves with. With the you know meekly is in running out in front of AK, forty seven five to save others, which just takes my breath away. The example of of the stuff the toddler toes, while I wanted to do the film when I I heard about the attacks. I couldn't understand the response. I couldn't understand how it wasn't just one or two staff members who chose to stay on mass with no prior warning or organizational communication, they decided as a group to stay to remain to protect one another to protect and predict they guests. It was even the case that wants the bullets flying in the bums will dropping you had some stuff members who had made it outside who would ship it guests outside the perimeter. And then they turn back and went back in, you know, would you do that? I don't know if I would. And it's you know, if your if your audience interested that can go on Google the Harvard Business Review, the re heroes of the Taj hotel where team psychologist from Harvard went to the Taj as you probably know to try and examine what what is. What about the culture of the Taj, you know, that creates the environment, but allows this to happen. It's extraordinarily you know, or they could just watch your movie, which is even better. They've anthony. Thank you so much and thanks to all of you for being part of my program this week. I will see you next week.

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Guns, Brexit, and Refugees (with David Miliband)

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Guns, Brexit, and Refugees (with David Miliband)

"From cafe welcome to stay tune. I'm pre- ferrara. It is a strange example. We've got conservative parties around the world who've become revolutionary that's not what because he's a four conservative parties of that to preserve institutions and to fend off radical change. We're living at a time when conservative party in the u._k. You can draw your own parallels. Elsewhere has become this revolutionary forces it soco's of the ultra left in its elevated to the pinnacle of achievement of purity an ideological purity that is really dangerous. That's david miller band. He's been a new yorker for about a decade but before that he was head of policy for tony blair's labour party and foreign secretary a cabinet position under prime minister gordon brown we talked about parliament brexit the u._k.'s new prime minister and his big job heading the international rescue committee but first first. Let's get to your questions. That's coming up. Stay tuned. Hey folks now cafe f._a. Has a weekly newsletter to help you make sense of the new cycle see for yourself. A cafe dot com slash brief each friday. The cafe brief recaps news and analysis of politically charged charged legal matters sign up to stay informed at cafe dot com slash brief and you'll get show notes. Stay tuned sent right to your email inbox. That's cafe. Kathy dot com slash brief. This is thomas calling from atlanta. Georgia a love your podcasts. I've i have a question about the second and then this. I understand that it protects the reds americans to keep in their arms ratified in seventeen ninety one. I guess i'm really frustrated with all of the shootings and <hes> i'm wondering if you could speak a little bit too nye in the wilderness about how assault weapons and modern destructive weapons technology are allowed because back in ninety one the arm that they were thinking of that americans should have the right there. Were primarily like must get. I was thinking about this in terms news of another constitutional amendment issue which was prohibition aching so then that started prohibition and then it was changed by the twenty personal all of which engines prohibition was problematic and it was not working so what can be done about the second anytime is thanks for your question you raise a lot of interesting points that i think are getting fresh attention since the mass shootings over the past weekend and also by virtue of the fact that we're in the presidential contest and every single one of the democratic credit contenders as articles have been pointing out sort of the same view that things need to be done now this point about taking literally the words the founders put into into the second amendment of the bill of rights. If you wanna take it literally that it was meant to preserve and protect only the kinds of arms that were known to folks back in seventeen ninety one people have suggested provocatively when that must mean necessarily that all those assault weapons and other modern firearms can easily be prohibited but that's not how the supreme court has dealt with the issue issue to me. What's really important right now is to do what is possible to be done. You have ninety plus percent of people in america who are supportive of universal background checks tax. You have seventy plus percent of people in america supportive of a gun registry over thirty day waiting period all of which have mass support and have had mass support for a very long time and maybe some impetus to do something about it. I just saw in the last couple of days more than one republican but previously had a good n._r._a. Rating suggesting openness to to some of these provisions a constitutional amendment though not impossible is a very difficult thing to achieve and i'm not saying one way or the other that it's a good idea i mean yeah it's true that america could decided to enact prohibition and decide to undo prohibition all in the space of a few years but my god we've had equal rights amendment pending for years and years and years now and can't get that done and that seems a lot less controversial than doing something to the second amendment. It seems to me that there are a lot of common sense things we can do about which there was a lot of consensus and has been consensus for a long time in the requires simply passing some laws not amending the constitution and let's start with that. Let's get that done. Let's get focused on that. Here's an email from from listener wendy holtzman who writes. I love your show. Thank you for helping keep america informed. I don't understand why the gun safety advocates and addressing the second amendment aren't always invoking the heller decision. It seems very straightforward to me can you shed some light on this wendy. You actually said light on this by quoting directly in your email to me from the heller decision was an important seminal supreme court decision about the second amendment and i'll just read the rest of your email in the heller decision justice scalia wrote quote like most rights the second amendment all right is not unlimited it is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner and for whatever purpose furthermore you quote nothing in our opinion it should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill or laws forbidding the carrying firearms insensitive places such as schools and government buildings buildings or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms close quote. That's about right. There is a lot of room even under current supreme court jurisprudence even in opinions pen by the late justice scalia that give a lot of room and support to all sorts of commonsense regulations that are being proposed even as we speak so yeah people should be citing to the heller decision and that scalia portion of it in the debates with folks from the n._r._a. And others who would oppose it. This question income's tweet from listener rodrigo schinkel. You're right tie pre fan of the show from honduras nice to know we have international reach. Do prosecutors take any special considerations regarding international or national political ramifications of the cases. They bring forward against foreigners in u._s. Soil hashtag asprey well. That's a great question in a complicated one as people know if you follow the track record and the docket of the southern district of new york we bought a lot of cases internationally case against narcotics traffickers international arms traffickers people who gave material support support terrorist organizations so we had a constant presence in other countries dealing with the law enforcement agencies also on cyber for example one of my favorite statistics from my i years u._s. Attorney was this in any given year prosecutors from my office. In the southern district visited between forty and forty five different countries because as crime goes global in the threat becomes international. The arm of the law has to get a little longer not everyone loved that and of course there were sometimes cases where there are sensitive issues relating to international relations and politics as a general matter the justice department pursues crimes that it can prove beyond a reasonable doubt and there's an impact on the united states if someone's trying to import drugs into the united states if someone's plotting a case against the united states someone's engaging in espionage towards the united states. We brought the case and that's depending on the circumstances in sensitivity. I'll give you an example of maybe the one of the most sensitive cases we brought brought during my entire time the long lines that you're mentioning and that's the russian spy case from december of two thousand ten where we charge ten russian spies operating in the united states. It's in an ended up engaging spy swap after they plead guilty to those crimes that was obviously something given the relationship between the u._s. and russia and the foreign policy implications that we brought because we thought it was appropriate to bring but they were discussions at the highest levels of the government including the state department about how he would proceed so there is sensitivity to those things. My view was always a law and order governs the rule of law matters it doesn't matter where you're from other parts of the government <hes> like the state department even if they knew about the case may be put forward its objections or it sensitivities and then someone at a higher pay grade than either the attorney general the secretary of state might weigh in and resolve difference of opinion on those things it really depends on the circumstances but sometimes it is a consideration my guest. This week is david miller band headed the international rescue committee nonprofit started in one thousand nine thirty three by albert einstein the i._r._c. offers humanitarian aid relief and resettlement for refugees and displaced people in more than forty countries around the world last year. The i._r._c. helped over five thousand refugees resettle in america and today. There's a record sixty eight million displaced people around the world if you're interested in ways to empower those people in need go to rescue dot o._r._g. To find out how you can help david miller band and i discussed his own refugee story the conflict that are displacing people and america's role in the crisis. I also got his reactions to the u._k.'s new prime minister and the easy comparisons of boris johnson to donald trump. That's coming up. Stay tuned. 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I love how hellofresh let you break out of a dinner and if you find yourself traveling it's easy to change delivery days or even skip a week for eighty dollars off your first month. Hellofresh go to hellofresh dot com slash. Stay tuned eighty and enter stay tuned eighty. It's like receiving eight meals. Capri only at hellofresh dot com slash stay tuned eighty promo code. Stay tuned eighty david milliband. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thanks it's good to be with you so i should tell folks that we are not recording studio. We're in your officers at the international rescue committee in mid town not far from grand central so here's some background noise. That's just the bustle of the great city of new york. Thank you for coming to our who we are very important so no i'll travel for someone like you so you've been in new york for how long but then you'll for nearly six years so do now like new york more than london no wows. I'm a londoner people will start chanting sent him back. I know that's the danger but i can't you. You wouldn't want someone who abandoned their country. You quite nicely. You could say you liked them. Close to the same no but then you'd say oh. They're the politician in you you you haven't become a true ngo gene weaving politician. I feel very lucky to be living in such an extraordinary city. My family's <hes> here <hes> the organization. I'm working for gives me. Enormous is a real privilege. I mean we're doing amazing stuff in a way it could only exist in new york accident accident that einstein came to new york in the nineteen thirties that he founded the i._r._c. to rescue jews from europe that it's built on that base to become this global organization but london is an amazing city because it's got three hundred and sixty degrees of history culture. Everything's concentrated in a way that the finance politics. It's the culture is a more centralized country so in a way it's a bit of an unfair comparison to compel under with anyway. I was just in london with my family all three of my kids and my my wife we quite liked it went to churchill war rooms. Yes we spend hours and the war rooms was tremendous. I was amazed my kids stopped. At every significant spot you know listen to the to the audio. Tour read did all the reading and then we also went to parliament what i didn't know until we were ushered into the room unlike with the united nights house of representatives and senate. You can't go onto the floor as a tourist. It was weekend for us in london. Which is why we got to stand in the two chambers because it was a week and you're the weekend they let you do that. Did you have did you have a special friend who was did not have a special friend. I found it was good enough. The house comes amazing that it's so small yeah how many members of the house six fifty six fifty that room <hes> clearly cannot contain fifty so you've got people sitting on both sides opposite each other other which makes it unusual for a debating chamber because usually their in the round and you've got standing room and sitting room and so if you've got six hundred six hundred and fifty in which they might be for or prime minister's questions or for a set piece debate a big debate. It's a real it gives meaning to that word cacophony. I mean yes the only thing it is proper debate because because you can make a speech but it's very unlikely if you're a front rank politician to get through the speech without taking interruptions interjections from the assigned which if you refuse to take them then your chicken and win the debate and then if you do take them there are some smart aleck on the other side will quote something against and so it does. It's a proper debate. There's a new prime minister as of a week ago name boris johnson. Many americans may know by his haircut most people well in the u._k. Never voted for him now. He's a party leader. I mean we are a parliamentary. Democracy parliament is sovereign. The queen always has a prime minister. She's never without a prime minister or without a government and he was elected by his party. Versity was elected m._p. From his district district which is a small number like being elected in a member of the house of representatives in the average constituency is about sixty five thousand people so one tenth the size of your congressional party leaders elected again not by a large constituency but by a subset of citizens in the u._k. About one hundred forty thousand who members of the conservative party and how do you become a member of the conservative party you sign up to the values of the consultative body and pay edano twenty five pounds a year or something and that entitles you to vote then tells you vote in the tory leadership election yeah i mean a- i have my own history with hockey elections which we're going to get get into aw but i think that the bigger point is that the countries in the biggest crisis faced outside wartime probably ever i mean the referendum on member of the european union has created a wrecking ball aimed not just at the economy of the united kingdom but also at its politics and its constitution because because in northern ireland in scotland the debate about whether the people that want to be part of the united kingdom's being given fresh impetus and so it it grieves me a law to see see not just the economic damage the reputational damage but the real threat that exists because a- parliamentary democracy had pitted against did the mandate of a people's vote. I spent three years as minister arguing against having a referendum on the grounds that referendums were the prerogative of you've demagogues and dictators and the parliamentary democracy would be threatened by the creation of an alternative mandate and i'm very sorry to say say that that is true. It's not just sour grapes that was on the wrong side of a fifty to forty eight decision. It's at a time when liberal democracy is under threat or around the world whoa hundred thirteen countries of had democratic recessions since two thousand six the u._k. It should have added fuel to the fire with this challenge to parliamentary government vermont so on this issue of brexit which is very complicated for a lot of people especially on the side of the pond. It's a bit like california or maybe a better example texas deciding to secede seed from the union. Some people would favor that america will actually most european must continental europeans are actually sad about britain leaving notes sorry despite the fact that we can be a pain in the ass but that referendum happened over your opposition and other people's opposition but brexit hasn't been achieved yet now boris. I johnson is taken office. He's promising to do what by when he's promising that at the end of the six-month extension for negotiations that that was agreed between the previous government and the european union which is up tober the thirty first halloween by unhappy coincidence we will leave. He says come hell or high water. Do-or-die do or die whether or not there's a negotiated agreement for britain's economic securities social educational relations with the european rippin union and this is not like deciding not to go ahead with a house purchase. It's not saying no deal. I thought i was going to buy that house but i'm not going to understand the house. Yes i've got it saying i'm the scrap the architecture and the water supply and the infrastructure of the house i've got i'm going to move somewhere else but i can't tell you what is going to be you so you're saying it's not responsible. It's grossly irresponsible is an act of unilateral political. Disarmament is an act of economic lunacy yunessi and it's driven by a phantom and the phantom is the idea that britain is a victim of european federalism. There is no european european federalism and there is no victimhood for britain. So do you think what boris johnson wants to have happened in six months come to pass or is there a way to avert what you think will be a further crisis well. I think that he's on the one hand justifying this course of action on the grounds that it will force the european union to make concessions but that's like saying thank you see this revolver. I've got in front of me. I'm going to pick it up and blow my brains out unless you do what i say and sometimes economic wealth yeah but sometimes people say we'll blowing your brains out as long as you don't mind brains out you know you could go ahead so on the one hand. He's trying to justify on the grounds of increased leverage on the other hand. He sang look. It's not going to be so bad breaking off. These relations is with the european union not so bad. There's a big wide world out. The president trump's waiting to do a trade deal with me. <hes> says boris johnson. He's using those two justifications. I think in truth he hasn't really come to terms with the contradictions of either approach my fear or my my expectation. We're putting it is he's going to be stuck in between and come the last weeks of october. It's going to be the markets passing judgment even more than they are at the moment and i think the politics is very up in the air or what happened to the markets. When he took over well they've tanked and they've tanked because no deal brexit is such a risky course. It is a strange example. We've got conservative parties parties around the world who've become revolutionary. That's not what conservative party is a four conservative parties of their to preserve institutions and to fend off radical change looking at a time when conservative party in the u._k. You can draw your own parallels. Elsewhere has become this revolutionary forces in a way it does have because of the ultra left in that it's elevated to the pinnacle of jeevan a purity an ideological purity that is really dangerous. Can you make any assessment of boris. Johnson's leadership abilities apart from brexit someone who's made its prime minister who you'll be foolish to underestimate him look he's. He's got a good education. Some some people would say putting education to waste he went to he went to the university. I went to sleep but he went to eton before. I didn't go to don't underestimate him. He's a good education he he he he's unlike president trump in an important way and that he really benz the wind. Whatever you say about president trump has been saying the same things about free trade since one thousand nine hundred he's he's got a three or four consistent beliefs that he comes back to boris johnson has far less of an ideological anchor <hes> but he has attached himself to this brexit 'cause i think because he saw it as the roots to leadership of the conservative party and the prime ministership that he and he's always wanted and he was correct and he was great to see no history he knows he's got his own version of history usually with him appearing in it <hes> but he's written he's written widely. He can quote directly to you but an icon <hes> look is important not to underestimate him and i think that you shouldn't compete with him at the level of a jokester. I think you have to take him people on on the grounds of whether or not they're going to deliver for the people. They say they're gonna support. Is he populist. I don't know what you mean by that. If by that you mean someone who's <hes> antithetical pluralism which is what some of the academic literature would say about a popular someone who wants to play the people the will of the people against a pluralist society. I don't think that's right. I think is he trucking. Native ism and nationalism is what do you think boris. Johnson's elevation means for u._k. U._s. relations. I think that he is going to throw throw in his law with making a deals with president trump. I think he's going to want to cleave towards the trump administration and he'll have very little power to say no to what they want. The constraint on him is that not just president trump personally but the policies of the trump administration whether in respect climate change or in respect of immigration or in respect perspective iran a very unpopular in the u._k. And that will be a constraint so we're talking about donald trump a little bit. There was a something of a scandal in the last couple of months with respect to the u._k. Ambassador acid to the u._s. and you have obviously a lot of experience with diplomacy and foreign relations so none of this is new and novel to you so there's cable sent by the u._k. Ambassador that were leaked that said some derogatory things about donald trump has leadership style and maybe his abilities that became known and so then under pressure he resigned from the position not before which donald trump himself tweeted some things personally about him. I believe you said with respect to that incident. Divorce johnson was spineless. Why did you say that because because in the debate about that bird johnson refuse to support the ambassador while he was still in post <hes> there was a concern <unk> election and bruce johnston refused as important. I'm busted the and his right to express his opinion. I thought that was terrible really not just because he's a former foreign secretary but derek. The ambassador was a man of enormous commonsense incense. He was one of the least pumpers people i know he was accused of pomposity by president trump but he wasn't a pompous person extreme experienced diplomat and i thought it was the responsibility of an aspirant prime ministers to support public service and support the civil servants in the world they're doing do you think he was tenable. Though for someone who should not have had those cables leak it was giving his opinion and assessment which is what people do all the time and by the way many would argue they were wrong. Assessments was tenable for him to continue once those things became public certainly think the cost of his enforced resignation was greater than the cost of him staying on he was due to retire anyway in six to twelve months and i think that the message that went to the west of the foreign office which is where what you say is not a good message because in the modern age i was foreign minister. I didn't need an ambassador to who do the routine things. I could text for minister. Say you're going to the following meeting. You know i need to catch you for five minutes. I could text another minister to say that but you do need a really illegal ambassador to tell you what's really going on underneath the surface of the country that your negotiating with oh dealing with and so i think there was a a folly though do you think that that nations generally in the west are turning more inward. Yes is that reversible course will yes. It is and i think it has to be reversed. Look i will the facts about the inward. Turn our evidence. You don't have to argue as isolationism it on the rampage to see that post. The financial crisis post the failings things in iraq and afghanistan. There's been a drawing in by the west secondly. Is it a problem yes. It's a huge problem because we're living in an age of interdependence. We're living in an age when countries and peoples more closely linked together not by climate but by concerns about public health on nuclear security or economic interdependence and so the the need for countries cooperate is greater than ever and it's also i see that in my own work international rescue committee is a global humanitarian charity with facing what i call an age age of impunity that means that bad actors around the world drop chemical weapons. They besieged communities. They target civilians. They target aid workers. It's been western countries of liberal democratic hugh that have pushed back against that over the last seventy years. All countries signed up the the u._n. Charter but it was driven from nine hundred forty one atlantic charter the meeting of churchill and roseville in newfoundland who said that the post war order could not repeat the mistakes of the inter war period that the rights of people needed to sit alongside the rights of states to build international order that is now what is in retreat. It's not just western power retreat. It's the values of the enlightenment that are in retreat to their founded on the rights of individuals. Can it be reversed. I think it needs to be reverse not just in the interests of prosperity an interest a piece frankly because an international order in the modern age that doesn't have institutions russians for global corporation is going to be a very unstable and very unequal international disorder so their retreat from what had been the international order. What are the origins of that. You think i think the origins of the retreat significantly two fold one is foreign policy failure notably notably in iraq but the second is the economic crisis the seeds of which came before two thousand and able which exploded in two thousand and there's one other factor which is obviously relevant this the shift in economic power towards emerging economies notably china but not only means that there needed to be a shift in the global balance of power. There was a shift in the global balance of economic power and it needs to be reflected in political power as well. I think that those are the origins of it. I think it was inevitable. That had it to be a rebalancing. The way in which the west has gone into retreat has put the most vulnerable people in the world at a disadvantage has weakened the multilateral oh system at a time when it's needed more than ever and has contributed to global instability what in particular about the iraq war votes on it in individual countries and also the prosecution of it has helped to unravel the world order. I think you can think about that politically morally and institutionally <hes> politically it turned out to be a disastrous astro's strategic error morally the <hes> ground that was lost the result of our grave and other elements and institutionally obviously the going around the u._n. Said very bad precedent. I was peripherally involved in tony blair speech in chicago in one thousand nine at the time of the kosovo conflict fleet which set five tests in what he called a doctrine of international community and one of those tests was about the u._n. And its role so i think institutionally recently there's been an undermining and it's given license to all sorts of bad or rogue actors to believe that they can just do their own thing so one of the big things you dealt with early on in your tenure as foreign minister was the killing of alexander litvinenko. Do you think the west has learned anything from that incident and are there ever any consequences as for russia and putin for engaging that kind of conduct why the west has learned muslims was it was it was a rogue action. It was the actions of a rogue state and they've been repeated subsequently in the invasion of georgia the invasion of crimea than the attempted assassination of mr scruple former k._g._b. Agent now a british citizen and frankly in the attempt to destabilize liberal democracy. I know you've discussed the miller. Cetera there wasn't is a sustained attempt to destabilise stabilize american democracy. There wasn't here's a sustained attempt to destabilize european democracy funding of far right parties interference in elections. The question question is not whether we've learned lessons the questions where the russians have learned and i'm afraid the lesson that they've learned so far is that they can get away with a lot as long as as they fragment and weaken the countries of liberal democracy and if they find allies elsewhere and that's what they've done. They're they're obviously a declining declining economy in various ways but they are mobilizing their power in a far more effective way than we'll which leads us to the work that you're doing now is very important. Work could be i._r._c. Relating to the plight of refugees around the world refugees and displaced people refugees and displaced people. Yes thank you yourself. Are the child refugees. Tell us about your background in your parents. Yeah it's interesting how is become perhaps obviously more important to me given the job. I'm doing but in the kind of british way. I think i probably he didn't examine my own history very much. When i was younger i mean <hes> introspection is not a british characteristic. I is not one of our national strengths but when i think about it i'm much altered was i can read things into the way my parents live their lives lives and brought up me and my brother's kids that speaks that my dad was refugee from belgium in one thousand nine hundred forty. He was born in brussels. He lived in in brussels where his dad was a leather worker. <hes> my mom was a refugee from poland nine. Hundred forty six survived the war in polish both jewish and my mom's father was killed quite recently we discovered that he was killed in a concentration camp outside took on january nineteen forty forty five actually and the holocaust was the background music to my childhood. I was born in nineteen sixty five and my parents maybe like many people who were affected by the war because they'd been through and they'd seen such hell and they'd lost so many people in their families. They wanted to protect their offspring. They wanted to give them more security and so i had a very middle class unspectacular childhood that was notable. I i look back for it. Security not particularly wealthy but secure secure an assumption in the nineteen seventies middle class you could graduate into the middle class and so i think when i applied for the job here the international national rescue committee. I said there were three reasons. I wanted to say the job one was that i liked difficult problems and the problems that the icy faces. How do you get medical aid into syria. How'd you teach girls suffering under the taliban in afghanistan. How do you promote successful integration of refugees into societies. She's where they land. I like difficult questions a secondly. I thought the i._r._c. was sleeping giant. What could be more striking than to be founded by on stein and thirdly hardly i said both my parents were refugees and so i had a sense that i could close the circle giving back to people who aren't probably the same religion as my parents who you want in the same situation but had elements of commonality the drew me to that 'cause you have a recollection of what the attitude was in the u._k. And elsewhere towards refugees and displaced persons when you were younger and a change in britain's obviously different from america in that it's much less of an immigrant society see although people have been coming to britain for thousands of years from around europe now. I'm not practicing jew so i'm not a more culturally jewish than religiously jewish. If you know i mean and i spent four years of my childhood lead so not an especially cosmopolitan part of the u._k. I didn't feel hostility t- <hes> but i suppose i went out of my way to integrate and didn't particularly advertise my difference when i was secretary with his people. I'm a former secretary jewish no jewish foreign secretary. There's a nuance there. That's important now. The the antagonism tanga newsham to foreigners peaks at all times. I mean in the nineties in the u._k. Was huge animals to align people from hong kong to come to did the u._k. Tons i love canada. They've made huge successes of themselves. It'd be great if we let them know. There was a peak of hostility in the late nineties when we were in government about kosovan <hes> refugees from the balkans and you know from your own history in the twenty s here. It's not a new phenomenon even in nineteen forty. The washing posted a poll. Two thirds of americans didn't want allowed allowed us to come to america so i didn't have a strong sense of that as a child but i think i i didn't go out of my way to find either. I'll i'll be back with david miller band right after this stay tuned a lot of businesses have the same problem a hodgepodge of systems that keeps them from seeing the real numbers one system for accounting another for sales another for inventory and so on it's a big mess that takes up too much time and resources introducing net suite wait by oracle the business management software that handles every aspect of your business. It's easy to use cloud platform that gives you the visibility and control you need to grow with with net sweet you save time and money by managing sales finance and accounting orders h._r. Instantly right from your desktop or phone. That's why net sweet is the world's number number one cloud business system right now net suite is offering valuable insights with free guide seven key strategies to grow your profits at netflix dot com slash preet dot com slash preet to download your free guide seven key strategies to grow your profits dot com slash pre-tape it before the break. David miller band told me about peaks of intolerance towards people from other places. I asked him does this happen. Organically medically or is it the leaders stoking fear with two ways and evidently to weigh in that so you can legitimize the illegitimate if the leadership is is of a particular character but i think that there's also the factor of sheer scale and pace of change in demography people write about this some of the peaks associated with the percentage of foreign born in different countries in the pace of change and that's certainly been the case in different parts of europe. We should never underestimate what the challenge is to integrate people into society nor the benefits that can come from it and i saw that for myself in the way britain changed actually if you think about britain in the seventies and britain in the two thousands of two thousand and ten now it's undoubtedly a far more confidence became much more confident as well as diverse country and what's tragic. I think post financial crisis how that confidence has been lost so the i._r._c. Can you give a sense of the scope of the issue. The i._r._c. see deals with but then also what's impressive to me and maybe people don't appreciate this. The is a huge organization with a presence in so many places describe both the apparatus that you have and what the biggest challenges are so we're an international humanitarian aid organization that works across the arc of crisis from the war zone so northwest north west syria today parts of south sudan the democratic republic congo. We worked from the war zone to the rest of that country. Where people fleet quousque violence we work in the neighboring states where there are refugees people who've left their own country as a result of warren conflict we work on refugee transit routes because people are fleeing threw up to libya trying to get to europe and we work to help resettle refugees and asylum seekers in countries that they landon. We've got twenty five offices across the u._s. That are resettling refugees. The trump administration has massively reduced. The number of refugees were allowed to come a but we've got one hundred and nine hundred field sites around the world employing thirteen thousand thousand employees with about fifteen thousand additional auxiliary workers who are daily paid staff were now eight hundred nine hundred million dollar organization <hes> we've we've more or less doubled in size in the last six years and we are an organization that doesn't just deliver health or water and sanitation in or education we try and meet the needs of the whole person on the wall behind me seattle strategy map. We say that we're helping people survive recovering gain control. Their lives are work fits into two five main areas of helping people survive helping the health education that income economics is really important to us because refugees and displaced people out of their own in homes for a long time they need independent source of income as well as international aid and just to finish the picture with more or less seventy five percent then government funded from governments around the world of the hundred million dollars with twenty five percents funded by individuals foundations and corporations. How how many different countries are we in the fund you the fund us probably about half a dozen main funders u._s. u._k. Sweden european union does whole germany and private donors are spread around the world when countries like the u._s. Under the leadership of trump dramatically reduces the number of refugees and displaced persons admitted how does that affect you and any organization well it it affects us directly and indirectly the direct way affects us is that more refugees trapped outside this country waiting to be allowed to them in one hundred thousand iraqis who actually worked for the u._s. Military or diplomats who have special visa status that would allow them to come to the u._s. Only one hundred and fifty of being allowed in this year this is these people put their lives on the line for the u._s. Whatever you think about the iraq or afghan wars these people put themselves on the line but also refugees from congo or else web all religions eighty percent reduction in muslim refugees sixty percent reduction christian refugees under the trump administration so we're directly affected was we're helping fewer people as a result of those decisions indirectly their governments from around the world who say well trump administration's not taking refugees win them and say refusing push them out. I suppose i should have said one of the direct effects if you think about the crisis the southern border <hes> the reduction in international u._s. aid to countries like el salvador guatemala honduras that has a pretty direct effect tube. Hey we're working in those countries but be it helps cbs drive <hes> the flow of people that were seeing to the southern border. I'm struck by something you said a second ago so the american president decided we're gonna reduce the numbers and then leaders of other countries they will maybe we'll just follow suit is that because they're persuaded by some logic or they're using it as an excuse because they don't wanna spend the money <hes> excuse and they're also worried about what their own population are going to say and in two thousand sixteen belatedly the obama administration raised the number of refugees being allowed into the u._s. for more or less sixty s sixty five thousand nine hundred thousand and hey presto let them other countries stepped up through the same thing so it's not rocket science when the u._s. reduces from ninety thousand to twenty thousand then you get a reduction now i think it's important to give your listeners a bit of a sense of the scale though because refugee resettlement helps a tiny proportion of those who are expelled from their own countries by conflict or persecution persecution around the world today you talking about twenty nine and a half million refugees and asylum-seekers people who've left their own country not for economic reasons but for political reasons and another forty one forty two million who are still within their own country but are homeless as a result of war or persecution so these are the world record breaking levels and the power of example is especially striking at a time when the problems go so much was what are the arguments you would make or you would give people who say look. We have enough of our own problems. We can't solve other people's problems. What's the argument politically emotionally. The people should be making about why they should care about this more. I think i these people are productive members of society when a arrive we know that from all the data but we also know einstein became mkx proud american and remind us again said i think i don't want people to miss it. What's the relationship of albert einstein to the i._r._s. I'll be honest. I helped create. The national rescue committee when eleanor roosevelt reported listened to him that president roosevelt was not willing to admit more jews into the u._s. Albert einstein and others in new york held up international rescue committee to work in occupied europe to get fake passports to help people escape from the nazis. So the first point is from einstein to madeleine albright sergei brin people have come to america and and being productive contributors here a burden here very important secondly. It's harder to get to the u._s. As a refugee than any other route in other words the security vetting is real serious third. There's a moral obligation to those in iraq and afghanistan who worked for you put their lives on the line to come here fourth and and very importantly we're not talking about. Most of the world's refugees coming here. The trump administration perfectly legitimately says we want to build resilience of people in the countries to which refugees go most. Most of those countries are poor countries not rich countries bangladesh has taken seven hundred fifty thousand rohingya refugees in the last eight months. Uganda has taken one one and a half million south sudanese refugees these countries with income per head one fiftieth of the u._s. Level so how how do you explain then the generosity and the welcoming nature of a contract bangladesh because they felt that the ethnic cleansing going on next door was so unconscionable that even though they didn't want the ringa to become bangladesh's they don't consider them to be real bengali's <hes> they saw that blocking the building a wall if you liked them holding keeping the fences closed was unconscionable i mean i asked someone in northern uganda. He was the deputy chairman of the local district council in northern uganda. I said jim you know there must be politics here because of poor ugandans who here and he said look these people are brothers and they helped us twenty thirty years ago in the worst days of idi amin and we have have to help them now you answer this question but if i had asked you to rank countries that are facing an influx of potential refugees which are the most welcoming entre. We'll release. I mean it's quite surprising really if you look at employment and other aspects of welcome uganda's. There's actually top of the list. Uganda gives every refugee who arrives land. They let them travel anywhere. In the country they give them full access to public services including kids and they support them into work and so forty percent of female refugees. We just put a report about this. Forty percent of female refugees in uganda. They're actually working so surprising. Uganda comes out top bottom of the league. I mean it's hard to try and figure that was of course those who are most vicious towards refugees. Don't let them in the first place so it's what we know is that there are killing fields in syria yemen that our humanitarian catastrophes and that's the worst place to live. What's the most gratifying part of this job that you do the feeling that i'm making difference that we're making a difference as my colleagues making a difference day by day. Someone once went into <hes> d._r._c. democratic republic congo and said if you look at the statistics you get depressed. If you look at the people you have hope and if you're in politics you can see the big picture but the danger is that you lose sight of the individual if you're in an ngo way you trying to make the world better one life at a time. The great gratification is that you can see the individuals. We think we help twenty. Seven million individuals lost the gratification the individuals the great dangerous that you lose sight of the big picture and part of my job is to make sure that we both attend to the details of being the best humanitarian aid agency in terms of the quality what we do and the most insightful in terms of drawing the big lessons. Are you following the presidential primary. Of course i mean closely i live here and i live here and it matters for whether you're citizen on all so yes it does so given what you understand about what it takes to make it to the top in politics who impresses you in this field. It's a hell of a system. You've got my god. It's brutal system so it goes on the more for being up there. I think that politics has got to be about what your four as well as what you're against one of the hardest lessons i learned was that if you don't define yourself yourself you get defined by your opponents and you define yourself first and then you can define others. That's the big challenge now. I don't think it's really riot if i'm heading ngo to stop picking out individual politicians i have. I have to dance around that. I do think that the the danger of the whole politics focusing around a particular twitter handle is real and in the end there are deep keep yearnings. I think across this country for a politics that delivers real change and that's meant to be the purpose visit progressive politics. I think that's a while i understand why the democrats are fighting with each other. They're going to need to figure out what's the ford agenda <hes> economically socially politically for this country which is a go more resources than ever before but also in some ways more challenges than before. I met you one more question. I apologize. I've been thinking about this issue and that is very successful. Politicians project a theme of hope barack obama ran on hope and also change is also true that sometimes the way to get people to get to the polls is not just through inspiration in hope but also to cause them to understand appreciate and maybe even fear the consequences winces of going to the polls or the consequences of the status quo or in this case a second trump term had you good politician balances the need for giving people hope and also causing them to have sufficient fear to vote their interests. Well sometimes people say who beats fear and i don't really buy that. I think that the way i would put it is that you've got to make yourself the repository of hope and you've got to make the other guy or gal the repository of risk. You've got to be the candidate that makes change real but you've also got to show that the other side represent a risk to things that you hold old dear. That's obviously different in your system than in our house because it's probably over personalized here but even in a parliamentary system personality matters a law but the short answer is i think you're going to do both i think the real challenge for people of my place on the political spectrum but also people who do politics politics in the way i do is that we end up sounding like problem solvers who technocratic and i think as well as being a repository of hope and crystallizing why your opponent represents risk. I think there's another dual ism that one has to really come to terms with and that is how you combine reason which i believe in with passion which is necessary. If you try us reason to beat passion it will work. You need reason compassion as well as hope to win is your advice. You've gotten political or otherwise that you'd like to share with folks. I think that's the best advice for anyone really who wants a leadership position is to be a good listener as well as a good electra the best s. politicians i think a really really good at listening and they find the right people to listen to and they don't use that to substitute shoot for their own mind because the worst thing is to be a politician who defines your own reality. I'm a great you know your own mind but not define your own reality <hes> but i think listening is an under estimated virtue in politics and also in the practice of law which i ah you have to hear the other person's point of view before you destroy it y- before you dismantle it and you also have to understand. It's one of the best answers that i've asked that question of a lot of folks. If you're not listening then you're not understanding how it is that that person needs to process information. You can't put yourself in the other person's shoes. You've never persuade them of anything if you're not listening to them and understand understand the motive their communication with i think i really learned that when i was doing diplomacy because of course the first rule of diplomacy is to put yourself in the position of the person you're negotiating with and you can't do life you know able to really listen to them figure out. Where's the chink in the armor. There's a logical breakdown or have they given a hint that it's emotionally their response to certain for involvement or a little bit of flattery get you that or did you have to play the hard man. I mean there's different ways of doing it so with respect to the i._r._c. I see so many challenges you talked about. What are the pressing things. You're dealing with now. Whether you're talking about diseases like a bola or anything else bowl is a really good example of how the the modern geography of poverty and risk is changing because democratic republic of congo is a country. That's multiple challenged not just by misgovernance silence and poverty and corruption and war climate change a public health emergency. We've just heard today. That rwanda's lender is closing its border because goma where i was visiting six eight weeks ago has now had two cases is on the ruanda d._r._c. boorda. We're running fifty fifty nine health screening centers across eastern d._r._c. so obviously we're worried about our own staff but we're also worried about the contagion effect because the a striking feature of the crises we're dealing with today is that they don't stay within their own country. They get exported. Both through people and the movement of people most obviously diseases diseases do not respect borders diseases do not respect borders. We're also got an important job. We have to follow the news so the decision is important but where syria on magenta i've got four hundred and fifty five hundred staff in the northwest and the northeast syria that crisis is going on yemen is the world's largest humanitarian catastro- twenty four million people in humanitarian need a misbegotten war strategy of which i'm afraid the u._s. is a supporter which has not just brought humanitarian catastrophe but it's actually empowered precise to the people that the saudi led coalition says he opposes the iranians are stronger today than they were four or five years ago so we have to balance the emergency response with the need to stay in a sustainable way and i think that when i say we work across the arc of crisis it speaks both to the acute emergency and the chronic and unless the world gets better at dealing with the chronic emergencies is going to face many more emergencies so we have a lot of thoughtful listeners who care about at the world and want to get involved if someone wanted to be involved in these issues or specifically to be of help or assistance the i._r._s. Is there something that people can do. Would it be great if they live in the u._s. Could actually come and help but one of twenty five offices around the u._s. Where we continue to help refugees asylum seekers across the country they visit rescue dot org which is our website. I hope that if they're an employer whether here or elsewhere within the u._s. roles wed they would be interested in hiring refugees. I hope they'll use that voice. One of the most moving moving things for me. I gave a talk in san francisco and afterwards this woman came up to me in floods of tears vietnamese women and i said why why are you crying and she said my parents errands were vietnamese refugees and they never wanted to talk about their experience. They never wants to talk about their history have wanted to talk about their gratitude to america and she said i think because they and others light than refuse to talk about what it was to be refugee. We brought the backlash on ourselves so i hope that if they visit rescue dog they can see the facts and then a final. Obviously i'm british so i hate talking about money but i've lived in new york for six years. So now i can very openly and avowedly i appeal to any of your listeners with deep pockets. We'd love to have them add to our growing list of private supporters because with governments in retreat. It's gotta be individuals foundations persons and corporations which step up god's work. Thank you david noble. Thank you very much. The conversation continues for members the cafe insider community this week david and i talk about how the west should deal with china. How capability is built into the parliamentary system why he misses politics and what. He told me they do next time. I'm in london to hear the exclusive. Stay tuned bonus and the exclusive weekly cathay insider podcast go to cafe dot com slash inside <music>. Hey folks obviously everyone. The country is mourning the loss of life in el paso and in dayton <hes> and that's what people are talking about in congress although they're currently on vacation and that's what i've been talking about on the show and among my friends and former colleagues to this week in the cafe insider newsletter i wrote my weekly essay on just these very issues and i thought this week i would just read you what i wrote from august seventh two thousand nineteen eighteen controlled anger lifeblood of change dear reader last week in this space i reflected onto emotions that have the power to usher in substantial political critical change hope and fear there are to be sure many powerful emotions one could so describe since sunday however i've been experiencing one particular visceral real feeling anger. The breaking news came saturday afternoon. Another mass shooting after last week's carnage at the gilroy garlic festival this time at a busy walmart and el paso texas early reports indicated at least twenty shot in the sister town to see dod juarez mexico. The shooter drove ten hours an arsenal in tow to massacre mexicans because set down in a hateful screed. He believed they were invading america. Another a community shocked wounded and changed. You watch the story unfold hope. The early reporting is wrong brace for the worst even before the full body count is known news outlets post graphics to rank the latest incident in terms of lethality at this point. The el paso shooting is the sixth the deadliest shooting on u._s. soil. I heard someone on tv say that every mass shootings both the same and different. I nodded when he said that. The arc does seem ever similar. The social political and personal aftermath of a mass shooting in america has sadly become an exercise in deja-vu. You see the predictable statements of career politicians you hear stories of heroism specific to this chaos but universal and what they say about certain people's capacity for courage under literal fire. It's all too awful to contemplate but also utterly familiar expressions of condolence seem insufficient calls. Elsewhere change seemed futile so you go to bed sadder a bit more fearful. It can happen in your community not very hopeful. Anyone will do a damn thing about it. The the status quo seems fixed. It is wearying millions of americans woke up sunday morning expected to hear more details about the el paso shooting motivations nations of the shooter tributes to the fallen updates on the wounded. There was that of course but there was something else terrible news of another mass shooting overnight in dayton ohio nine people murdered under a minute the cables had to split screen tongling between the terror and el paso and the terror in dayton between two mass. Ask gunslaying separated by only thirteen hours and in that circumstance the deja-vu feels not just maddening grotesque because now there are two unspeakable despicable tragedies unfolding in parallel and now the same old platitudes thoughts and prayers the same confounding calls to action now is not the time to talk about about politics or legislation the same nonsensical status quo statements sound downright pathetic because you just heard them yesterday for me on sunday afternoon soon in the wake of two senseless murder scenes sadness and heartbreak gave way to anger boiling anger anger at the shooters but also anger at a racist i president who ferments hate in white nationalism and then ever sharply and unforgivingly anger at the insufferable craven boobs we call lawmakers who perennially any li block all common sense laws on guns more than ninety percent of americans support universal background checks yet no action seventy five percent of americans support a a thirty day waiting period for gun sales yet no action seventy percent of americans support requiring privately owned guns to be registered with the police no action. There was something else that added to my anger. It was not just the inexcusable inaction it was also the utter cowardice on the part of so many lawmakers especially republicans in their radio silence silence so many felt that it's a feist to post banal tweets of condolence and commiseration but went missing from the airwaves to defend their policy views c._n._n. Reported that after the dayton shooting forty nine out of fifty g._o._p. Lawmakers declined invitations to discuss the shootings on air who knew politicians were so coy. First responders braved bullets to save innocent to american cities and yet scores of elected officials fled the public square in the aftermath. If you believe in the status quo say-so and undefended if you believe in change than fight for it if you can't do either step aside and leave your office to someone with integrity. It's pretty simple. Oh i am angry. So we're many of you. Anger isn't reason anger isn't analysis anger isn't evidence anger isn't policy proposal reform or solution raw anger can cloud and distort more than illuminate so one needs to be careful but controlled anger can be the lifeblood of change change. At least i hope so so don't let your anger fade. Don't let this moment pass. Let your representative know how you feel. Especially that your senator no call march vote give well. That's it for this episode of stay tuned. Thanks again to my guest. David milliband they tuned is presented by cafe. The executive producer is tomorrow suffer. The senior producer is aaron dalton and the cafe team is carlo pagarini julia doyle calvin lord beneath bassey and jeff is our music by andrew dots. I'm pri pera. Stay tuned <music>.

america boris johnson prime minister donald trump international rescue committee president new york united states u._s albert einstein david miller Uganda britain iraq secretary europe
Refugee Poverty is Solvable

Solvable

29:39 min | 1 year ago

Refugee Poverty is Solvable

"I may Higgins, and this is solvable interviews with the world's most innovative thinkers, who are working to solve the world's biggest problems. Now I'm really glad to bring you this interview with the journalist Jacob iceberg in conversation. With David Miller band. David is the president of the International Rescue Committee? The IRC and the two of them have a timely discussion on how best to serve the world's growing population of displaced people. Solvable is that refugees? And displaced people should have publicly rates inequality rates lack of opportunity no, greater van the rest of the population around the world. There are more displaced people than anytime in our history. There are nearly seventy million forcibly displaced people worldwide and almost thirty million of them have been forced to leave their countries. This global refugee crisis has been on the shoulders of the world's poorest countries with eighty four percent of refugees. Staying in developing regions in a global list of countries that have taken in the most refugees, the only European country to make it into the top ten is Germany last year here in the US. There was a forty year low in numbers with fewer than twenty three thousand refugees admitted to the country, actually. Listen to this conversation, perhaps. Think about the parallels with what was happening back in the nineteen thirties with what's happening now here in the US Syrians and refugees from several other predominantly Muslim countries are banned, and back then Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi persecution were rejected in nineteen thirty three as fascism descended on Europe. The Rockefeller Foundation began funding a program to resettle scholars that were fleeing that fascism, an ultimately rescued hundreds of scholars and their families. In his work with the IRS e David Milliband overseas. The agency's humanitarian relief operations in more than forty war-affected countries as well as its refugee resettlement programs in cities, across the US, David is actually, the son of refugees himself, and you'll hear that this really informs his work. Okay. That's enough for me. Let's listen to Jacob and David, and I'll Chatou after. The problem is that refugees and displaced people on being failed by a humanitarian aid system that is out of date and need significant reform. David were here. The offices of the Rockefeller Foundation, I did a little research and discovered that Rockefeller has a lot of history with the IRC. In fact, it was one of the original funders of the work of the emergency rescue committee, the ancestor organization to the IRC, which helped get Jews and other refugees out of Nazi-occupied Europe, beginning in the late nineteen thirties, you're right? And I always talk about International Rescue Committee, because I also use one of those criminals that gets lost International Rescue Committee is a great New York institution in the same way the throw cappella foundation is a great new institution. I think that we can claim the rushing committee that if I had to choose between being founded by Einstein, and founded by ROY. Cappella I'd go for Einstein. I'd take Ironside over Rocca fella, founded by on Stein funded by Rockefeller, that w double double benefit, and Einstein in was here, as a refugee in the thirties, he was in Princeton when Hitler came to power, he never went back to Germany, and he was consumed by the fate of his of other intellectuals of family members of the Jewish community across Germany, and then across Europe. And he wrote these incredibly moving. Let's eventually Elena Roosevelt's at pleading with her to persuade her husband, the president's to allow Jews to come from Europe. Of course, American public opinion two-thirds in ninety thousand nine hundred forty opposed allowing Jewish, refugees into American and so on Stein. Out of this enormous sense of impotence. He brought together some colleagues of his found the emergency rescue committee became national rescue committee. And the first thing they did was send a mangled Barron. Frion gno times, journalists to occupy FRANZ where he established a safe house and forced two thousand fake passports, and help two thousand people escape from occupied FRANZ. It's an amazing history. I thought I might just show you this list. I found in the Rockefeller archive of scholars, and intellectuals writers, who Rockefeller helped to place at American institutions must have the new school in New York and you look down that list and it's a who's who of physics in the twentieth, century. But includes Thomas mung on and cloud Levy, Strauss. And it's just it's just interesting that the, the story is so powerful. That's a resume story today. And the. You're right Marc Chagall as well. We're saying fearlessness, the new school when it was founded was cooled university-in-exile the new school for social research in Neo was cool universe next on it was for exiled German intellectuals nets extrordinary history and just to make it a personal little bit your, your parents, your, your father was was a refugee scholar. Was he not? Well, he wasn't quite a scorecard. Polonia just seen him. Amazing. Not he was when he was sixteen when he was a refugee, my dad, so he wasn't quite skull by then though he did. He and his father left Belgium, fled Belgium, when the Nazis invaded in nineteen forty and he was sixteen years old. He became a scholar, if you like Acton technical college. In west London web pretty amazing. Actually, he learned English and in a year year later did his matriculation and go into the LLC the economics. And so he was an N. He's the that point was in Cambridge. He's young gamers. Then joined the Royal Navy. My mum was a spent the war in Poland came to the UK as refugee in nineteen four was allowed to come to you can ninety six as a refugee on her own as a twelve year old. Did you grow up with the consciousness of being the son of refugees? Not really. No. And I think that I knew that my parents were foreign. I knew that the holocaust take in large numbers of that. The family. My one of my grandfather's was killed in concentration camp in southwestern Germany in ninety four in January nineteen forty five an but so there was a consciousness of that history. And of course, I was born only twenty years off the end of the holocaust. So that was there, but I think like many refugees, my parents wanted to give me my brother the security that they never had and my data grown up, knowing communism fascism. Mother knowing Nazism, living under it, and the they wants to give us a more protected livelihood. But I knew that, that was this background music to my childhood was what we had lost others lost how have the dimensions of the refugee problem globally changed from what the world dealt with in the aftermath of the second World War, and the holocaust, I think there are three. Massive changes that people for massive changes. Actually, people need to understand one. This is not just a European issue. The in, in the wake of the second one more of a European issue refugee flight is now a global issue. Secondly, unequally significantly the notion of a refugee was born of the idea that when states fort civilians suffered and they fled. So intrinsically a political. It was. Yes. It was political. But it was also interstate none. The point I want to make is today's refugees are not the product of wars between states that the product of walls, within states. So Syria, being obvious example, Afghanistan Somalia, those are not, those countries are not fighting the neighbors, they are consumed by civil. So that's the second big change. The third big change that I would point to is the jurisdiction of displacement has grown exponentially. In other words, if you think about the second mode wall. Germany had a huge refugee population coming back after nineteen forty five but they were out of their own country, for, and I want to say only six years, but a limited time today. The figures are hard to pin down, but for camp based refugee populations the average, duration of displacement around seventeen years, so you've got much longer displacement. But the, the fourth difference, is that in the second one will period personal period, refugees generally were housing camps today. The phenomenon of is Asian, but you've talked about, and I'm sure you're going to cover in, in the series, the that phenomenon applies refugees as well. So sixty percent of the world's refugees today on in is not in refugee camps. What about climate refugees surely, there are beginning to be significant numbers of refugees who are fact did by climate change in the expectation has to be that those numbers are going to grow tremendously. It's interesting, I want to push back against the first part of what you said, not, not say the first, but which is all that climate refugees that obviously climate change is happening International Rescue Committee. We see that every day in our work in the Suhel you could argue that some of the. Challenges problems war in Syria has some of its origins in the drought in the northwest of the country, that led to a large part of the population being driven the in two thousand eight nine and ten but there's the clue most people who are directly affected by climate change remain within their own countries. So they're not refugees in that says, not people who left their own country and to neighboring country, they are what we would call, I suppose, climate ID piece climate internally, displaced people. And so if you think about Bangaladeshi low lying country in the south, it's likely the, at the moment, the direct impact Clem changes for people to move within their own country. There's a, a wrinkle to this, though, which is important, which is there's no question that climate stress. Prompted by climate and results stress prompted by climate change is a multiplier for conflict. It drives conflict and so indirectly climate change may be contributing to refugee floats to give you an example, if you think about what's happening in the Lake Chad basin northeast Nigeria Chad Cameroon ninja, there's a range of factors that explain the launch flows of people that both within countries and between them book a Harum, but included, but then as a massive climate induced problem resource stress. So that's a slightly long apologize for the longer answer. But BA were just saying they're climate refugees today, but your warning the climate change is going to be a driver of people moving in the future is undoubtedly, right? And underlying condition that did I know you have a sense of optimism about this problem and I wonder what your solvable is around refugees. My soul -able is that refugees and displaced people should. Should have a publicly rates inequality rates lack of opportunity. No greater than the rest of the population at the moment. If you're a refugee, if you're an internally displaced person, it's the fastest routes to extreme poverty. If you look at all the statistics, whether of Syrian refugees who are relatively middle class in Syria are now in Jordan, Lebanon Turkey, even those who come to Germany. If you look at much poorer refugees, for example, Wrangham Muslims who've been driven ounce of amendment. Now in Bangladesh poverty rates are much higher than national averages levels of abuse of women and girls much high early marriage much higher. I until what I would like to argue is that it's well within our power to ensure that the poverty inequality rates, the oppression that people feel as refugees under blaze, people should be no higher than before. For the rest of the population. How long do you think it would take us to get there and what you think it would take for us together? Let me start with what it would take because the first popular question how long will take is about politics because the truth is the policy problem is not the biggest one as Einstein's day. The problem is a political one less more than his a policy, pro the really there are four pass this part one. What's the first thing that refugees or displaced person needs when they left their uncomfortable after own home? They need cash. They need that they're likely to be in an urban environment rather than. Robin camp environment and so they need cash support either not necessarily literally those in the hand, but they need cash support. We know from our own research, how much impact this has on their life, chances on the ability of that kids to go to school, raw than be out at work. I actually including a reductions in levels of violence within the home. So the first thing they need is cash. We know how to deliver it. We know how deliver it in electronic form. And we know how to deliver it in casual cash transfers earth. An increasingly influential idea in international aid, general, oh, more influential, because it's only my figures are something like only six or eight percent of the global humanitarian budget goes in cash amendment in rescue committee. We will high with three times that, but it's not yet enough the default option. We say in every, we've got thirteen thousand staff members and fifteen thousand volunteers in one hundred ninety field sides. In fourteen hundred. The first thing we asked before we do any program is why not cash. Yeah. Before food before anything else one cash, because actually it's the evidence base to show. It has the biggest impact people know their own needs better than anyone from the outside, especially if you give it to women. Heads of women in the hustle, second thing is employment for refugee at alz. A we know from Uganda, interesting test case which has the most progressive policy towards in powering encouraging refugees into work, that, if you allow refugees to work, they set up businesses, they become employees in a study in Kampala in twenty fourteen ninety plus percent of the refugees in the country were off international aid, because they're able to works, pull themselves contributes local economy, both cash and employment reduce the tension between refugees and the host population. So there's a secondary benefit now. It's important say you can't say we won't refugees to have a right to world as end of the story because the countries that refugees are in on generally poor lower middle income countries. They I e if yo- Pierre Uganda Bangladesh, Jordan, Lebanon, Pakistan, these countries with their own pros these countries that have. Got unemployment, Jordan. Twenty six percent. I think unemployment rate among his own population. Right. And so the only way to make the Employment's question solvable for the refugees. If you say, look, there's a big macro economic bog into be done with refugee, hosting states. You'll delivering a global public good. The international community is a World Bank, which is rewritten its mandate to allow this the IMF. We're going to really support the metric of countries that are delivering on this global public good to make it possible for those governments to save their own people. Look, we're not just taking care of the refugees. We're taking care of you as well. Yeah. So give refugees money allow them to our yet. What's next third half of refugees, and displaced people are children yet. Two percent of the global humanitarian budget goes on education, which is obviously strategically geo-strategically stupid as well as morally reprehensible, we're talking about education for kids who are not in the middle of war zones, fits a funding organization. Challenge to get the right balance of expanding the mainstream schooling system. So the kids can go school and expanding community based education, where there on facilities, and just so you get sense of the problem. Fifty percent of refugee kids, a primary school age have no educational. Seventy five percent of refugee kids of secondary school age have no educational, and that is not unsolvable role. We know how to live origination. But we also know. And I think is important is not just a matter of quantity, shoving kids into doubling the size of classes. We know that kids who've been through trauma, need special help to access education. We've done we call it healing classrooms. You've gotta make sure that you're attending to the right quality of education, the right support, sometimes the right language, training and support. So the third element of the horrible puzzle. If you like is to just take seriously and not pretend not not succumb to the fiction that we don't need to educate because these refugees are going back home soon. The no less than three percent of the world's refugees went homeless. The fourth element is not the most important in numerical terms, but is important, and it's difficult politically. And that is that countries that are not in the frontline of the refugee crisis countries, let United States where meeting western European countries, but also add Vance countries elsewhere in the world in the Gulf in China Japan. You, you name it, they've got to be willing to take refugees on as resettled refugees, and the UN identifies resettlement. In other words, the planned transfer refugee from their own region to somewhere else in the world that can support them as being right for the most vulnerable those who have special medical needs, who victims of torture, a historically, the US lead on this. We haven't used many numbers interesting now so far in this conversion, which is so people get a sense of it or twenty eight and a half million refugees and asylum seekers in the world today, and their forty million internally, displaced people, the UN says between five and eight percent should out qualify as the most vulnerable should be resettled. And that is. Inari wed, America historically, has taken the average has been ninety thousand interesting, if I ask you which president admitted the most refugees, you probably know do you know in the ever in American history. There's a smile on my face was not the not the most liberal one. Yeah. It's gonna be Herbert. Hoover, no wrong to Reagan admitted more of two hundred thousand plus refugees in eighty one eighty two more refugees admit by role rights, there's no reason, this has to be quote unquote, left wing thing. But he had a very clear view. The people who are fleeing persecution, or in the case of Vietnamese, refugees people to whom America debt should be allowed to come to America. I would argue it's an essential part of the policy package, but also the political package that refugee slots are opened up for refugees to come to countries like the US and make a success of their lives. And actually all the evidence is that they do then net tax payers than not a security risk was they get vetted to the gills before they're allowed in. They actually we even did the study they pay back their Car Loans at a higher rate than the American population. The ultimate piece of Americana is to play like your callers, your second car law. The so that's the fourth by my argument is, this is the proposition the refugees need and displaced people need be no more afflicted by poverty, and inequality than the rest of the global population is, so is in, if you do those four things you'll get a long way towards achieving the goal we've sat now you're continuing to draw distinction between refugees and economic migrants in many countries in the developed world that is not so clear distinction. Why is it important to maintain a great point? I mean, it's, it's important muntiny in, in crude terms and then we can come onto the subtleties and croutons. There is a difference between the girl who is threatened with kidnap by book a harm in northeast Nigeria. The family who are threatened by Shia death squads in Iraq, because they've worked had relatively worked for the American diplomats all the military. There's a difference between them and somewhat people who are fleeing for their lives and someone who is poor. But once a better life, there's a difference. I would there's obviously a difference legally in its national law because of the first group has rights in national law above all the right not to be sent Bank that the immigrant does now but I would argue there's also a moral difference. It's not the one is good. And the other is bad is not, that's not the point I'm making, but the moral responsibility on a state that is receiving refugees different from a an asylum claim is different from the moral claim on a country. That is receiving would be immigrant in between those two polar opposites, there are many shades of gray and you can arguable if someone's femme is no longer farmable, because of climate change. Are they? Forced from the home. You know, someone who's someone's if this famine in south Sudan, and they flee than you can see that there are greyer is because the definition of refugees were saying that is someone who has a wealth is quote, unquote, well-founded, fear of persecution on grounds of race sex politics, ethnicity, that has been interpreted over the last fifty years by the courts, to mean some someone whom it's not safe for them to be sent home, one should hold fast to that distinction in that definition for two reasons, one of which is principled, one of, which is purely pragmatically principal reason, is that these are people who are in fear of their lives. And there should be a special quality of support for people who are in fear of that lives. The second pragmatic reason is that the politics of changing international law on getting hundred ninety three countries to reruns, national a it would never be achieved and be if it wasn't Chievo it would. Lead to diminish the minutiae of rights refugees, which is neither good for refugees nor for immigrants. So notwithstanding all the grey areas and the difficulties, I think an immigration policy is different from refugee policy. So we think that refugees can in the future suffer from poverty to no, greater degree, the non-refugees putting on your hat is a political analyst. You're the foreign minister of the UK, how long will that take? We talked about some of the political obstacles, but being both Optimus -tic and realistic. I mean the promos game worse not better known the gap between needs and provision across the four indices, or the four, interventions that I've described that the gap is growing knots diminishing, and I don't want to just been Opole Titian pumped by the question, gee, but a lot depends on America because America has historically been a leader both in refugee admissions. And in humanitarian aid as Lou now, we're talking about shutting the the largest land border. In the United States. Essentially, we'll see. You're talking about cutting all aid to the northern triangle of countries on jurist Guatemala, El Salvador, the other source of people reaching the Boras. A double hit is not beyond the wits of politics in the next twenty years to, to achieve that goal. We are we are committed globally nations of themselves to something called the sustainable development goals that promises to erotic, eight extreme poverty by twenty thirty and my point is that it's going. Well, if you're, if you're poor in India, the trends in the right direction, but there are more extreme poor in Nigeria today than there are in India, and that's because there's a conflict, and fragile state or parts of it are the concentration of poverty is going to be increasingly among those affected by conflict. Now, the truth is that there's a fifth element to this, which is what's happening to diplomacy. If the crisis of diplomacy continues if. If the US carries on its retreat from diplomacy in Syria. Yemen Afganistan if Europe fails to become a major. Diplomatic power. If Russia stays on its revanchist course that all of the treatment of the symptoms that I've described comes that much more difficult, as we dealing with more and more people. But I the optimist in me, says that fact based policy interests based policy, as well as values by policy still has a majority. There are the rising levels of education, meaning that people around the world can increasingly have their voice when meeting on the day, when president other guns increasingly one, man rule in Turkey as being rolled back by mayoral elections in Ankara. And in Istanbul, actually present other ones being pretty good to the Syrian refugees who wants to recognize that. I think the biggest challenge we face is that people think we can't solve this problem. That's why it's important for me to do this podcast. The biggest mountain is not a policy mountain is not even the middleman is the four, oh my goddess just so complicated. We'll never be able to is out, actually, if you think about the global population, the numbers that I gave me twenty eight and a half million refugees forty million. Interim is place. Yes. That's together one in every hundred and ten people on the planet. But it's not that many the number of if you take the refugee resettlement numbers when we're talking, it, we're begging America, please go back to ninety thousand refugees a year. No one's gonna tell me. I mean fifty states in America, less than two thousand refugees per America's day, no one's gonna tell me that either California, but not even Wyoming is going to be overwhelmed by two thousand refugees arriving in another. Another city could settle a multiple of that. Exactly. There's no reason to to succumb to this tyranny. That says the problems too complex problems impossible, anything, the pope says the globalization of indifference I say is not indifference was there's actually more global consciousness. And it's not apathy either. It's the sense of agency. And that's what hopefully our work around the world allows people see that there we call ourselves, a solutions based NGO, we're out there. If you look at our social media, it's about solutions, it's not about suffering. And I think that we've got to break this tyranny that says the pros do complex problems too. Big. We call this is solvable. And I think listeners would like to know what they can do to help. Can you list five things that individuals can do I would love your listeners, I to use that voice to stand up for the principle, but people fleeing for their lives deserve help I would love your listeners to volunteer at a local refugee resettlement sentence, national rescue committee, runs, twenty five across the US other agencies need support, I would love your listeners who are employers to give refugees the chance to work. And I would love your listeners to become supporters of International Rescue Committee by visiting rescue dot org. Getting the information about the what we do being on with the facts about how to make a difference. And of course, since I've lived in New York for five years, I'm no longer ashamed saying this, I hope they'll become financial support as well. You still have your accent. I still have my accent. I slept my patriotic British heart beating David. Thank you for joining us on solvable. And thank you for the work that you do. Thank you so much. Isn't that confronting to hear just how few displays people, the US actually take in high loved hearing how the IRS see this argumentation that Einstein founded has grown up to be this voice of reason? I mean who is going to argue with Stein on a big takeaway, that I got from listening to? David, was that refugees, and displays people need pretty much the same things the rest of us, do help to get back on our feet after a loss work that's paid a fair wage on education for our children. I really love what he's got to say about cash basically, if somebody needs money, give them money, David is like, straight up you need cash. Here's cash, which if you've ever been broke, you know, that's the exactly right thing to do. Solvable is a collaboration between Pushkin industries and the Rockefeller Foundation with production by talking blades Pushkin's executive producer is Mia, Lavelle engineering by Jason Gambro, and the great folks at GSI studios Howard theme music, was composed by pasta lies and special. Thanks go out to Maggie Taylor, Heather Fain Dunia Barton, Kylie, mcclary, Jacob Weisberg, and Malcolm battle. I may Higgins, go solve this.

United States International Rescue Committee Germany America Europe president David Einstein Syria New York Rockefeller Foundation Nigeria Rockefeller IRS Higgins Stein David Miller Jordan
David Miliband on the Coronavirus

The Good Fight

00:00 sec | 7 months ago

David Miliband on the Coronavirus

"To limit yourself to say well we're going to produce as many mosques as possible in our own country we're gonNA prove ventilators as possible in our own. Country is a vision of the future that is far more limited than the lies. We've learned to lead. And I think is insufficient for world the past more resources to do more good and more connected than anytime and now the good fight with Yasha Monk Visa difficult times and so I want to open his podcast with an optimistic optimistic words but I put later on to my guests who I think is a little skeptical of it but then me out for now in the middle of pedantic. It's very hard to know how we do. It's very easy to focus on all of the stories of failure on the miserable failure of Donald Trump on the people at the individual level. Who are not living up to the moral duty off insurance social distancing at the moment but I wonder whether looking back at this moment we might not it despite Oliver suffering an order the failures. We are witnessing as one off the more optimistic moments in human history as one of the big achievements of human history around the world. The impact off. Social distancing is starting to failed in the crew in about statistics. The number of cases of hospitalizations in many cases of deaths is starting to stagnate or go down if we manage to find good treatments. If we manage to keep the number of new cases down FRU quarantines contact tracing over the next month. That is a big but if we manage to do that humanity might collectively managed to bring the number of deaths from this virus down there is significantly from what it would have a wise be? I'm not confident that this is going to be be outcome. We might well be remembering this moment as one of the great failures of humanity. But it's something worth paying for. It is a goal worth trying to achieve and I don't think that it is entirely outside of a realm of possibility but now I'm reading on it to have David Miller band on the podcast for the second time. David held a number of important roles in the British government including as foreign secretary from two thousand seven to two thousand ten he is now the president and CEO of International Rescue Committee in New York and we had a really great conversation about the world after crooner trying to think through what long term impact of this moment of crisis will be but also perhaps more importantly a very sobering conversation about just how hard many of a poorer countries around the world will find it to beat back this pandemic and what we can do to help them do so. Welcome back to PCA Steven. Thanks Yasha. It's good to be with you. In these truly surreal circumstances. It really is real. We were talking a few weeks ago and do a saying that. This is the most extraordinary political crisis of your lifetime. Now you know you've lived through nine eleven and a lot of important historical events. I share the sentiment but I have trouble describing what it is about this moment. I can tell you exactly the biggest event not of my lifetime. But of the memories of people have talked to his obviously the Second World War but I was brought up in a country where you were taught that Ashley could the Deputy Prime Minister could still check the cricket schools in the mornings as the war went on. And so you describe it. As the most extraordinary political time I think what makes this surreal is that it's not just. The politics is frozen but that life is frozen that it's a social economic political global induced coma and that shortly explains why this is so extraordinary. That seems exactly right to me that even though the suffering and the death toll in the world wars was far greater events so far we have suffered from his pandemic the disruption to daily lives of people has never been as profound and as globalist has. Now I mean at this point is probably the half of humanity but has had belives profoundly altered in because of a few weeks and vet likely wasn't quite the same extent even height of world war. Two I think that's exactly right. But there are two aspects to it one is disruption which is exactly the riot would you've every aspect of our lives has been disrupted but on the other hand the suddenly shed experience. I do Kohl's without teams in fragile states around the world and of course we're talking about the fact that South Sudan only has full ventilators but we're also talking about the fact that the staff I'm speaking to are trying to home school. Their kids in Juba. So there is shed experience of this as well as very unequal disruption and very unequal vulnerability. So you know we've been talking about these wars and bakery wherever last turning point human history on that kind of scale and obviously a lot of politicians have been reaching for the metaphor of will wear at war of a crooner virus thinking about this a little bit recently because I think that metaphor is wrong headed in a couple of ways. I mean. We're not GONNA win the fight against corona by shooting at it because negotiated a ceasefire with various. Because it's not an intentional agent. So it's all kinds of analogies but I was thinking of a famous plows of its lions about fog of war He was realm uncertainty. Free quarters of the factors which action was based a wrapped in a fog of greater or lesser uncertainty sensitive in discriminating judgment has called for skilled intelligent to send our Truth and it strikes me as kind of fog of damage you know. I have trouble figuring out wherever we are succeeding or miserably. Failing I mean. Is this a proof? At overall governance systems are tabby malfunctioning. Might we actually reduce the death toll from this virus to such an extent that it's one of the great accomplishments in human history. How start thinking about well? I think there is a lot of fog. That's undoubtedly true but I agree with you. It's not the fog of war. I don't think that is a helpful. Metaphor even on a podcast. Cool the good fight for the reasons that you say. I think the the nature of the fog though has a number of distinctive elements one few of US really understand mathematics and exponential numbers. I heard Daniel Common Nobel Prize winner. Say That even. He found it difficult to get his brain around the idea of what it meant that a hundred deaths on day one of a month could be a consistent with the thousand deaths at the end of the month on certain rates of growth of the disease. So that's one aspect secondly the fog comes from uncertainty. There's a lot of uncertainty about how to deal with the virus. That combines both mass infectiousness easy infectiousness and quite a virulent character. It seems for people. I'm afraid of my age and above if you're over fifty or sixty. It becomes quite dangerous. So that's the second element of it. Thirdly I do think the fact that this virus plays with not just our health systems as much as the health challenges health economic political challenge also explains some of the flailing. That's going on but there is of course another aspect to this which is that the dominant politics of the last five years. The politics of anger over the politics of onces has absolutely nothing to say about community transmission. Absolutely nothing to say about social distancing tries to find things to say about why we should concentrate on just blaming the Chinese and that is part of the disturbance. If you like the is going on in all of our money so I suppose I have even more basic confusion. That which is that. I could look at some events over the last three or four weeks and enumerate failings that should make humanity ashamed of itself for the next hundred years whether it's Donald Trump's terrible mismanagement of crisis whether it is people you know insisting on going out to get coffee or hang out with friends when that might be killing the neighbors the relatives. It's easy to find real examples of infamy at the moment but at the same time I wonder whether people might look back at the moment and say it's kind of incredible and inspiring that so many countries so quickly altered the way. They live in a fundamental way in order to radically reduce the number of people who go into die from this disease. And I'm having real trouble sort of thinking through what that first draft history should be is visit. Memento of failure collective success and I think part of it onto we don't know to what extent we will in fact succeed in keeping the number of decimal virus down but I have a different perspective to you on this show. Which is that what we do know and can say with. I think quite a high degree of confidence is that the final scorecard will show that some countries have done better than others. And that's obviously complicated by the fiddling of the statistics that is fearful part of some of this in some places but I think you can make a plausible claim. I could make a plausible claim that history will spend more chapters discussing the variation in performance than it will discussing the aggregate number of lives. That were lost all saved. And it's in the differential performance that I think we're going to see the greatest debates and that's certainly is going to have the biggest impact on the political events of the next ten or twenty years if the narrative. Coming out of this rightly or wrongly becomes. That regimes are very good at dealing with this kind of threat and democracies means that many citizens need to deny that would further the rise of overtime powerless in popular around the world. If on the other hand this demonstrates as you're alluding to earlier that a lot of the rising politics of last five years doesn't have anything to say about the actual dangers faced by a lot of people around the world. Then those forces might be significantly we do. You think it's obvious what the scorecard is going to be on that front is this empowering tarrant and populace around the world who is going to detour democratic renaissance. Though I think it's contested surely that's the case and there are two axes. The you've raised is Ulta Croats Democrats autocratic regimes versus more democratic regimes. The second is populists versus the rest. Those are different axes of contest. I would add to that an axis of contest over equality and inequality. To what extent does the lack of universal healthcare become part of the story that the holes in the safety net both within Western countries and beyond it and I think there's obviously axis of contest over privacy antisocial. Trust but in respect of the dilemma. All the challenges that you raise at the beginning of the question. I think it's raw the more pointed than you've said because we know that two contrasting companies just to take them for example. Singapore and Taiwan have different systems of government. But have actually both responded pretty. Well we also know that. They're in DICTA. To`real regimes like that in Iran. Which has handled this pretty badly and consensus based regimes governments for example in Germany which has handled it quite well. The trouble is for the democracy or talk. Chrissy access that you raise. It comes down to China an America because any amount of talk about Singapore's and substitute for China any amount of talk about Taiwan's success is no substitute for America. And here. We always face the very real prospect that the full figures won't come out from China but also that whatever those figures on the US experience of this the US treatment of this the way in which the United States as an entity has dealt with this threatens to cost a very big cloud over state capacity in democratic societies put another way the way in which democratic government undermines state capacity. And obviously you especially but meet some extent we would talk about the fragmentation of the US system we talk about the many layers of the US system. But I think the threat that the US situation becomes even more terrifying over the next few months. In the first casualty of that is obviously those of us who live in America. But the longer term casualty I think could be twofold. One obviously America's global reputation and power. I saw referencing something today. About how long until China launches his own version of the Marshall Plan on? I'm sure that thinking about it. But the second aspect of it is obviously the one that you drew attention to which is if the wrong lessons draw about the real explanation for what threatens to be not just the highest global death toll but also a disproportionate one given the population wealth of the country. So how can we start to explain? Just how badly the United States seems to be doing at least in the first phase of a pandemic. I mean. There's a lot of obvious explanation to do with Donald Trump to do with a weakening of funding for some of those key institutions like the CDC deportation Ms Society the existence of Echo Chamber like Fox News. We can also make a quick list of factors. But you know it has at least Awareness of factors all of which I would have happily reeled off three months ago but I still find it difficult to comprehend how powerful democracy in the world the richest democracy in the world one that according to experts was supposed to be the one best equipped to deal with a public health. Emergency has been shown up to be so much less effective than countries ranging from Germany to Singapore South Korea. While the first thing I would say is that when you're in the middle of a thunderstorm that's not the right time to be discussing wise raining and so the first right of history. I effort at history com be done the first phase of the argument. It's very hard to do when the priority absolutely has to be manning the barricades or maybe that's not the right metaphor. The first priority has to be to. Now you'll metaphors yes exactly. It's not a good one to batten down the hatches and to try to save as much as possible and prepare for a gradual opening as possible because of course until there's a vaccine is universally available across the country the US will not return to anything like normal but when you ask how is explicable but such a mess could have been made of it. I wonder if it's that difficult. If there is denial Azam from the top which there was in China at the beginning and there has been in the US from the beginning. Surely you end up in a situation where people for perfectly understandable reasons do the wrong thing. I mean how many people left Wuhan on flights despite the virus being pretty well rooted because the government was not telling them that there was a problem and how many people are on beaches in Florida in Early March or at the Cheltenham Racing Festival in the UK on the Fourteenth of Montreal. Maybe I've got that wrong. And maybe in the first week much we know that the route starts from the top and leadership is about rallying common action and when the opposite happens when leaders say no. There's nothing to worry about then. Surely it's understandable. What happens the Cassandras? Who are saying. Whoa BETIDE US watch out. They're not gonNA listen to because it's much easier not. I agree that the most important thing at the moment is still to think about how we can ensure that the number of casualties from disease is going to stay as low as possible and I get very impatient with people who immediately jump to. What does this mean for? Trump's reelection questions like lead but I suppose there is an important question to be asked because we will face future crisis of some sort. You know you can have a minimalist interpretation of the faded in the early phase for fight against or maximalist one and the minimalist one says roughly. Look this is a crisis that we haven't experienced similar nature at least in a little over one hundred years since Spanish influenza. We've had overseas experiences of pandemics but seem to be going global and we managed to contain them and so lead us just went prepared because those too much complacency answer. Who didn't take the right steps in January early February and we've paid dearly for those mistakes but it doesn't actually say anything particularly deep about the rot of democratic societies about route of globalization about wrought off the liberal international order. Now the maximumness interpretation is to say no problem is precisely that the link of trust between governments and populations has been broken to such an extent. The road is precisely but we don't have a class of leaders but we need. The road is precisely that we have underfunded public institutions in public health and International Organizations. And so on so forth. So where on this scale do you fall or do you think that's not a helpful question to ask him? But I'm not sure if I fully grasp the question I think there are two dimensions to on that one is bureaucratic preparedness and I'd use bureaucratic in very neutral way remember. George Bush came back from his summer holiday in two thousand five. I read he having read a book on the nineteen eighteen pandemic and went into overdrive to prepare for a pandemic and that is about the stocking of a national supplies. It's about the way in which systems are running all you running. Your is a used system at ninety percent capacity or have you built in the cushion. Oh the comfort for an explosion of cases. There's a whole range of technocratic measures where there's no doubt that either for reasons of lack of belief in state capacity on the of those governing which I think has been pretty striking in the US case all because the way. The hospital system works as a series of individual entities of the profit making non-profit-making entities on the hospital level your driven by definition of your purpose to run on a very tight scale. You can understand how for those different technocratic bureaucratic reasons. The Systems Com cope now. The second equation depends on the fact that these health systems are never on their own enough. How many ventilators you've got unless you're able to mobilize public action on the basis of the social. Trust that you describe then you'll health system is going to be overwhelmed and I see this as two separate forces really one is if you like the assault on the regulatory state would be the first half. The second half is a very short-sighted definition of political interest and it seems to me that it's those two forces that have come together mediated by this phenomenon of a virus that is easily transmitted and is verlaine which is unknown. I mean remember we in International Rescue Committee. We cut our teeth in some ways for this kind of episode and in Bola which was very violent but very hard to catch. This disease is different and so I'm not sure if I've completely got spectrum that you were talking about. You're talking about a single scales. I'm not sure where I put myself on that. Well let me shopping. The question which is to say that a lot of people at the moment if you read the press and so on are saying look. This proves that globalization was mistake. All this proves that capitalism is rotten and so therefore only way to live up to the political lessons off a corona virus pandemic. The only way of making sure but similar crises won't happen in the future is to radically change abolish capitalism and globalization. I take it. But you don't agree with that. Distinguished globalization and global interconnectedness global integration on the one hand capitalism on the other. They're related but they're not the same and I think it's important to distinguish them. Let's take the first part of your question. Is this crisis. The result of too much into connectedness. To a little. I would say the fact that there's a crisis is much more driven by domestic political decisions than by international measures of connectedness. If you want to know why more people dying in one part of the world and the other is not because they're more or less linked to the global economy is because of domestic decisions that have been made. I would argue that. The real way to frame your question is whether or not a higher degree of global coordination and executive decision-making governing incision. Making would make the problem worse or better. I would argue. It could make it better now. The reason I say could is on. Its own having a stronger. Global institutions are stronger. Who Astrology twentieth stronger. Un set of institutions. The reason I say it could make the difference is that on his own and it only makes difference if his allied to at least one other factor and that factor is the degree to which. You're willing to combine an embrace of global connectedness with a determination to fight global inequality and it seems to me that the dimension of Global Connection is intimately related to the question of global inequality. Because the truth about this disease. Is that both national and international level. It's the holes in the safety net. That are threatening us. All and so to your question about capitalism I would say I would argue that the degree of inequality associated with the current round of global integration is too big for its own good. It helps explain some of the instability and some of the insecurity that exists. And so I think the needle has to be threaded is to argue that the purpose of Greater International Coordination Corporation is precisely to tackle the inequalities that currently exists because unless we do so it will become more unstable and more threatening to more people so this is set up menu things to talk about for the next ten minutes or so. So let me go step by step. So I will be talking about globalization and global interconnectedness. And I think that this sort of two questions here. One is national versus international governance. What kind of roles with international institutions like? Who Half and the second one will come to is about to the extent of international trade. So let's start with those international organizations. I think you're absolutely right. But in many ways this shows that we haven't had enough international coordination that we had effective enough institutions advocacy level to warn about this rising pandemic to push China on giving more information to countries. Early on about what's happening. But of course it has also revealed just to what extent some of those institutions captured. Part of the problem may be the. Who doesn't have necessarily funding doesn't have a necessary acts. Buds doesn't have enough respect from nation states. But part of the problem. Most frankly seems to be that. It's not the most effectively that yes quite beholden to many of member states including China and that therefore he hasn't been able to play the role in this institution hasn't been able to play a role that it should have done. So I'm convinced that this show is the need for effective international governance but it was a worry but it shows just how hard it will be to put effective international governance into place for. I completely agree with that. I mean you just look at the situation of the European Union. The moment you see that point absolutely the EU has never had a serious responsibility for public health so the has not been able to mobilize itself effectively around a range of the health aspects of this but it's divisions have hindered so far at the time of speaking it's economic response to so I completely understand your fear about this a lot of international situations including the ones but not only the UN ones reflect failings of bureaucracy but they also reflect the failings of their on the weaknesses of their own member states. And I am completely aware of that and I concur strongly with what you said. I guess the question Venice what your response would be to somebody who says look. I agree that it would be wonderful to have a set of effective international institutions and it at all realistic that we will get there then I would say the honor to this is not more. National Government is International. Government that's improved. Who put more money into it? And so on. But I don't believe that that's going to happen. And so instead of trying to pursue his dream that we will know is unrealistic. I conclude from this crisis critic says that we should give up on that level and make sure that we can protect ourselves. At the national level my response to the critic would be of course we should maximize the effectiveness of pandemic preparation and a range of other issues at national level. But we don't want to live in a world of what Yuval Harari calls a network of fortresses quote unquote and that's why to limit yourself to say well we're going to produce as many mosques as possible in our own country we're gonNA prove money ventilators as possible in our own country is a vision of the future that is far more limited than the lies. We've learned to lead and I think is insufficient for will the has more resources to do more good and is more connected than any time ever so. Let's get to a second aspect of globalization which is essentially about trade and cross-border movement of goods and people. Now there's one thing that confounds me that puzzles me about the people who are essentially advocating the series of would fortresses. Which is that when you look at history where you obviously had a lot less global into connection infectious diseases spread to virtually will corners world as well. The bubonic plague took a lot longer to move from place to place but moved it than what we're seeing right now. Is you appointing the Elia? Is that a lot of the places for less integrated into global economy but a little bit more remote as seeing the rise of this disease to free full weeks. Later than in some of those global hubs in some places that are right by the big American Airlines hop over big altitalia hub. But it is now arriving in those places to end. So the idea that completely destroying a global interconnectedness could have saved us from this Seems unrealistic at the same time. I conceive a poll of the argument that relying on International Trade for goods that you might desperately need in order to protect the lives of your citizens may be misguided if we're learning from his crisis that every nation immediately bans the export of those goods and men tries desperately to outbid each other for those few supplies. Fed exists so it seems to me as free different positions in space one is to say this proves that global played in general has been bad all along and we should reduce global trade together full kinds of goods. The second is to say look. It's perfectly fine to continue having a global trade in all the many non essential goods that make our economy work. You know we should continue to press. Full speed ahead of globalization on those but we should actually ensure that we can produce things like ventilators and perhaps food things that really unnecessary for the survival of own citizens adv national level to prepare for the next crisis and the Thaad which sounds to me like a position which is taking is to say. No no no. Both of those positions are wrong. We should actually just possessed with as much trade and perhaps more trade across borders than we've had and trying to protect certain industries out of national interest is a mistake which of these pre positions do take. And what do you say to the people who take a bigger lesson about Phoenix of globalization from? I didn't hear myself articulate the third position. I think that word I said was that we need to add both of the national and international level. It must be a fundamental responsibility of government that the protection of its own citizens involves a range of factors including the ability to. Let's say prick your to bring to place the right kind of health equipment in this case but it might be other kind of equipment in the other case to protect its citizens and I think we will see understandably more pressure for governments to be able to guarantee surge supplies of a whole range of goods and that guarantee might come in some cultures in some political circumstances from domestic production or it might come from production from very close allies who are seen to be reliable and longtime committed. That seems to me to be a matter of political choice. I don't think it is a sustainable position if I understood in third position which is to just say while we believe in the Global Division of Labor and we trust that that will shake out in the right way when the time comes. That doesn't seem to me to be fulfilling. Its the necessarily function of government. And so while I don't think it makes sense as a global policy recipe to say every government needs to make sure that within its own hands. It has the production capacity for all manner of goods. I do think that that will be increased pressure for governments to be able to say yes. Here's our supply chain and this is why we think it's strong and this is why we've addressed its weakest links and this is why we're confident that when the time comes it will come good so sorry for Mis attributing your position. It sounds like it positions closer to the second of free categories. What about the first one four? Why do you think that people who say a what was shows that whole direction in which nobody calling me has been going the extended interconnectedness holiest wrong? What would you say to? A critic tries to press that point a critic who pressed that would need to be able to show that no countries had been able to sustain the health of the population and then attributed to global trade whereas if you think about some of the countries you mentioned you mentioned Germany. You mentioned Singapore those countries that are very open to the world. They're also countries which have high state capacity internally as well as high levels of social trust. And so my point would be that. The integration of countries into the global economy has been shown not to be a blocker or a barrier on effective protection of their own citizens but that it has to be organized in a very productive and efficient way. So that perhaps brings us to the point to a raising about equality that we should keep global connectedness but we should keep international organizations institutions. But we have to make sure that that system facilitates more quality than it has in the last decades What would that look well? First of all this is raw for me. I mean I have the privilege of heading is -Ation that has thirty thousand staff. About fourteen thousand employees sixteen seventeen thousand Hillary work because in thirty five countries around the world that are in gauging humanitarian emergency. So I'm engaged. With countries like South Sudan whether it's four ventilators for the whole country I am talking to colleagues and Sierra Leone weather's one ventilator in the whole country I'm talking to colleagues where more than half of the population don't have access to running water in their own home. Three billion people around the world don't have access to running water in their own home. And these what I described earlier as holes in the global safety now. That's a sort of benign way of describing. These trapdoors that people face with very little safety. They make for a very dangerous picture. Dangerous of real carnage in the places that we worked so the question that you ask a very very role one because it raises questions about our own staff and it raises questions about the people that were serving. Now you then confront the context that actually inequality as measured across the globe by incomes from the richest person in the world to the poorest person in the world that has actually narrowed but it hasn't narrowed in such a way as to take home the most extreme levels of absolute poverty if anything the drive against extreme poverty has stalled. We know that there are rising numbers of people in extreme poverty in fragile and conflict states and the economic consequences of virus will contribute to significant deterioration of income in emerging economies. We know that so when you say to me what does it look like I would say has to look like serious discussion about what a floor level of income is around the world. WanNa floor level of healthcare is around the world floor level of protection of floor level of education and one of my fears that I have been expressing for the last five years since the publication of the UN's sustainable development goals is precisely that they did not have floor targets they had targets for eradication of poverty and lack of health care and lack of protection for women and girls. They didn't have flaw targets. So the danger is that those who are most exposed get forgotten and that is what is. What's frankly happened in the last three or four years? The bottom ten percent has gone further away from the next diesel up and that I think is costing US dear if we did take with targets very seriously what would that imply for the kinds of policies that we should implement over kind of institutional reforms? But we need to push Let me give you an example. Less than three percent of the global humanitarian budget goes on Education. So who can be surprised? That three quarters of refugee children and not in secondary school who can be surprised the half of all refugee children and not in Primary School. Who can be surprised early childhood development and dimensions which are the most be we know have some of the greatest return constitute less than zero point two percent of the global humanitarian budget. So we know that taking seriously just that example means being serious about funding. It means being serious about systems because a lot of these schooling systems can't cope and don't reach the people in areas beyond the of a functioning state. It also means taking seriously issues of conflict which are magnifying. The vulnerability of the populations that we're dealing with living through a time when the UN says General's call for a global ceasefire seems remarkable. Because it's been so off the agenda for so long and so I think there's a real premium on saying within some key elements of the global social safety net. We need a radically different approach. Because at the moment what is considered to be basic necessities versus on the other hand what is considered to be a luxury and in this context education to be a luxury. We're a million miles from kind of direction and intervention that we need. What about direct steps so you obviously a lead a very important because ation tries to safeguard the well-being of refugees around the world. You know what can we do in order to help refugees who living in a World will living in refugee camps to whether this disease and what can we do to help countries you mentioned like Sierra Leone's help Sudan? I mean that's a relatively straightforward question to other that's sad in some ways straightforward in other ways inspiring straightforward or frustrating these straightforward but also inspiring Louis Armstrong International Rescue Committee works for all those people whose lives are shattered by conflict or persecution so yes as refugees but it's also the internally displaced in Syria. We're in northwest. Syria northeast Syria. They under staff there. You have the internally displaced. They're not yet refugees now. One of these populations and and by the way there's about seven million people displaced by war and conflict around the world two hundred forty million people in the humanitarian distress various kinds. What are these people need? In respect of Kobe won they need the basic preventative measures to be taken at the time of speaking. And when this broadcast goes out this will be a time when the pandemic hasn't hit with full force in the communities where we work and whether it's still time for basic hand washing facilities for basic fever testing basic triaging of people isolation places where people can achieve some measure of separation and therefore protection so one prevention to when the disease hits not going to be able. Let's be honest. We'RE NOT GONNA get forty thousand ventilators that are needed for York into South Sudan. They're not gonna get it but there are shorter ventilators. There is the protection of health staff and then their ability to dispense basic help in primary caste system or lack of system that is vital and so the response to the disease has to do the job of healthcare around the world which is to prevent fatalities and to sustain levels of staff safety while at the staff. You can't do anything. There are two other things that are absolutely essential one is to recognize that half of the crisis is a crisis of healthcare. The other half of the crisis is the wider economic and social impact of the global economic meltdown. That Corona virus is triggering. And what that could mean for some of the poorest communities in the world in other words the knock on effects from the virus that aren't directly related to who catch the disease could nonetheless be very significant and the figures showing the quantum difference between the amounts of economic response in poor countries compared to rich countries tells you some indication of the danger. I think the figure I saw was the hundred and fifty dollars per African is being spent on economic response so far six thousand dollars American or pay European and the fourth and final part of the equation. The basic equation is about the vaccine. Because when the vaccine comes we know who's going to be at the front of the queue the line and we can imagine who's going to be at the back of the line and if the vaccine is not available to swathes of humanity that currently don't have hand washing facilities. Then they're going to be living with this disease not for the twelve fifteen. Eighteen months is sending a shudder through Western advanced scientists. But they're going to be living with for three four five years or longer. What are the steps that would need to be taken any steps for listening to podcasts? Can take in order to make sure that some of those basic hand washing facilities have put in place in a rapid way or in order to make sure that the global effort to ensure that people who the poorest communities get access to vaccine in a much more timely way that horrifying three four. Five years that you're raising as a possibility. Obviously I'm biased. I'm running an NGO non governmental organization. I WANT EVERY. Listen to this podcast. Go and visit rescue all. I want them to get that ten best friends to visit rescue. All I want them to learn about our staff members are doing around the world. I want them to donate to us to their financial capacity to help us do that as well as making that pitch. I do want to speak to someone who now works in the NGO sector and has always. My first job actually was in an NGO too long ago for me to remind everyone but I am a great believer that if you want big change around the world you do need government leadership you do need business and Ngo Innovation. And you need mass mobilization and the problem at the moment is the government leadership is missing. So that's where the NGO innovation becomes absolutely key and so it's not just. The International Rescue Committee has boots on the ground. It is other NGOs as well. I think we are going to have to have a model of social and economic response to this crisis that recognizes. That doesn't just say what a pity. It is. The government isn't that doesn't just call for the g twenty to be summoned from it's slumber but actually to recognize that there's a need for intermediary organizations businesses NGOs to step up because there's going to be no return to anything approaching normality unless we can address this disease in more parts of the world in a covered by the twenty richest countries in the world. This needs something far bigger in fall just to closer to accommodation David. This is a very grim moment. It's grim because a lot of people around the world is dying and it's grim because we're all sort of watching. It helped us from our homes. Having had our lives completely disrupted so that means trying to mystic which is not always my natural group and dream for movement of what historians might say in the future. If we get everything right. What has to happen now. What are the positive developments? That might come from this terrible suffering if we get everything right well. That is a great multi. Trillion dollar question will history teaches. Two simple things. Isn't it simple to say very hard to do one? You've got to get the diagnosis right onto. You've got to get the prescription Ryan. The diagnosis takes real fidelity to facts and to a method. That really speaks truth to power. About how this crisis has become so large and so dangerous. And that's where I think the beginning of our conversation about the extent to which this is a crisis that has obviously spread around the world but has been magnified by domestic. Failure is very very important that the first argument to win is the scale of the suffering has been much greater than it needed to be so the diagnostic task that I think is essentially if we to find any silver lining in this. The prescription has to be inspired in the sense of bringing new radical ideas. The surface we've seen how economic orthodoxy has been dumped in the wake of the crisis. I mean remember in my own country in the country of China citizen. A Conservative government is offering to pay eighty percent of the wages of the workers of small businesses. I mean that is Dumping Orthodoxy. On a monumental scale we need a similar dumping of orthodoxies when it comes to thinking about quote unquote intractable global problems. We need the equivalent of the beverage report for Global Welfare State. We need the equivalent of Bretton Woods Full. The way in which emerging and developing can pull out of this crisis in his after effects. We need the equivalent of the true peacemakers who have won the Nobel prizes for good reason over the last sixty years to bring to bear on the allegedly impossible diplomatic and political fishes that have held the world back. And that's where you need inspiration to be joined with agency and that's what I think we will log you for. We should do it in a way. That isn't blind to the dystopia consequences that could emerge from this crisis. Dystopia in the sense of being the network of fortresses that takes down much of what has driven progress that is antidemocratic xenophobe and doesn't put in place of a dystopia some kind of utopia but does actually make the practical radicalism. The is so important to human progress as I said. Easier said than done. David thank you so much for coming on the PODCAST. Thank you thank you so much for listening to the good fight. This podcast is generously supported by the SNF Agora Institute at Johns Hopkins University of Listeners. Have been spreading about the show. If you have been enjoying podcast please be like Rachel. Show Nigerians tell you all about it shared on facebook twitter and finally Christmas jetsons but wait guests or comments about the show to good fight pod at g mail DOT COM. That's good pie. Pod At g mail Tacoma. This recording carries a creative Commons. Four point -O International License. Thanks to silent partner for their song chess pieces.

US China Donald Trump International Rescue Committee David Miller Germany Singapore UN International Organizations South Sudan International Trade coma Juba America president and CEO
Using Google My Business to Kickstart Your Local SEO Services with Mike Blumenthal

Agency Ahead by Traject

00:00 sec | 2 weeks ago

Using Google My Business to Kickstart Your Local SEO Services with Mike Blumenthal

"Hi, I'm Garrett Sussman and welcome to the agency ahead podcast brought to you by Georgette join me as I talked to a variety of digital marketing experts. Well, we discussed the issue of SEO reputation management social media customer experience data analytics and so much more learn actual strategies where you can take your clients digital marketing performance package the next level. Okay, let's get ahead. Okay, welcome back. This is Garrett Sussman the head of content reject for the agency ahead podcast bite reject. Well, this is a long time coming today. I am joined by none other than the Godfather of local song She's mr. Everything over at our sister company gather up. I'm joined today by Mike Blumenthal. Thank you for joining me Mike. I wouldn't do my best Marlon Brando impersonation wage that interrupt but I'm not very good at it. So I'm glad very glad to be here. This is awesome. It's it's been so cool. We're just talking before this about how fun it is to work together. But we, you know having my experience in grade us and you've been doing gather up in and pay attention to the local search specifically Google for you know, too long to count, you know, everything that's been going on in today. I want to talk a little bit about Google my business specifically with our audience being agencies and a lot of them being local SEO agencies how effective Google Business is as a kind of foot in the door service that an agency can offer to local businesses. And then how they can actually scale that to start offering other service jobs for these businesses. So first off Mike tell me a little bit you did a study a couple of years ago about how a business with no digital presence could use Google my business to actually took to generate leads traffic and revenue tell you what that sure. They actually have a digital presence, but it was a Facebook only presence sometime around 2012 small business office is because it was true at the time got the idea in their head that they could live with a Facebook only presence and I still see a lot of these very small businesses that take that approach and I ran into a small restaurant that popped up on my bike ride to work where that was the case they were Facebook only presence. I was convinced that the time which like he says about two years ago that I could demonstrate to them clear off. Hey Google, presence could dramatically improve their new incoming customers who then could be reached out and contacted by Facebook and I was convinced the time that Facebook would not provide as nearly as many new customers as Google good. So I took a Google only approach and they had zero budget and showed them demonstrate to them and really really clear way that Google only presence where I Google Focus presence for pre-sale was dead. Absolutely killing Facebook tend to 1:15 to 1 in terms of leads generated and and much less work. Once a few of the attributes just set up much less work than face an ongoing basis for much more return. Yeah. That was that was really cool cuz you tracked, you know how minimal amount of work that you had to put in and to see these results and so dead. You know for our local SEO agencies web design agencies. What what's your perspective in terms of using that approach and setting up a business with g e b how would you how would you position that to the business? And then I guess my next question is is where would you go with that once you've shown the results to the small business? Sure. So deadly GMB plays a role in virtually any local SEO campaign and it is a primary place where conversions happen Google has done a credible job of quote-unquote stealing the phone call stealing driving directions killing the website visit. I don't think of it as stealing. Google is Concerned with providing fast and Rapid answers. So the GMB has become through the use of sense of use of Photography and immersive Technologies and transmission technologies has really become essential point in finding new customers for every business, but in the case of super small businesses or businesses that have yet to heavily involved in digital it provides a way to prove easily the benefits of digital marketing. It can be done in a very low cost way spending an hour or two a month for an agency and yet with very concrete. Key performance indicators that are beneficial in meaningful of business you can easily track when they'll extra expenditure number of calls are getting the number of driving directions. Getting even if you have one of the transactional pieces in play like appointments or scheduling you can track that as well. So it becomes an environment that you can track meaningful KP eyes with very low monthly investment. Then you can prove to the small business. It is succeeding for them and then start off and then you're more sophisticated digital technology and if it's scales well to where you can collect it because Google has an API API is very accessible. They have bulk features terms of wage management. Her number tools out there the light in management bulk and becomes very scalable so that you can move from one to a hundred to Five Hundred locations in this project do it really cost effective. And then as you've proven the worth of digital marketing move them into a longer-term view where you can control more of the stack. Yeah that makes a lot of sense in terms of thought of mine cuz I can imagine a lot of local businesses who are you know, doing minimal digital investment. They probably are skeptical of the value that it could bring so having those actual, you know results that impact the bottom line can open up their eyes. So once that's done naturally, you know, we can talk about what some of the other services are that are still relevant to local and obviously tied to to gather up offers reputation management web analytics. What are some of those and how can you start to tear point scale up once the foot is in the door? So personally, I would focus first on the Google Centric features that enhance Google and increase the likelihood of conversions things like dead. Photos you can go into a business and with any good solid new iPhone or Android take incredible photos. You can take several hundred photos that you could then post regularly a business, you know, relatively automatically those photos could also inform your posts or number free and very low cost paid tools that would allow you to schedule posts out of business. Both of those things can create the convertibility of any Google my business listing after you've done all the basics. So those are things that could be easily found within that basic context adding products and services. I think you're making sure that of the features and attributes of Google or loved once you've done that then as you, you know reviews or critical component many local campaign and you can start with Google, but it should be a mechanism off. I which you obtained help the customer tame their clients emails. I mean one of the goals for me in local is to not just get new customers but to own that customer relationship after you've gotten them and the best way to do that in a low-cost way is where they mail it generates seven to ten times the return of Facebook and it's not returned equal or surpass those of Google my business to Google my business maybe start out as your quote unquote home page. It should feed long-term sustainable customer retention particularly through things like email reviews follow up those sorts of things and I think so email us the next obvious choice cuz it be used for reviews. It can be used to help Market your customers after the fact fact a great low cost product to help marketing to exist. These clients existing customers is tied across David Miller, it's a very low-cost easy-to-use and agency friendly way to scale email newsletters. And I think it's a very very good and I'm tools they start with Jam be going to reviews index with something like gather up or perhaps screwed us to gather the email addresses and then leverage those email addresses with a low-cost program like David mamet's for newsletters and ongoing marketing with that customer base. I mean that's a sequence and a really high value to the customer over time that could be built out, you know, once you get that that done and you can continue to demonstrate High key performance value indicators, then you can move to all sorts of other areas, you know beyond that. Yeah. I I love the idea of using Google my business and the specific features that they offer to grow the services. Yep. You mentioned post and I can imagine if you are using posts for a client and it's effective that is a perfect segue into doing advertising right because it's it's similar type of concepts of you know, advertising organically versus advertising on Google and then in addition to that if you're doing the email then you can send you know do email marketing talk about local content home cuz that's what they're going to need. Once you build out that email marketing campaign the agency would then probably want to help them out with ideas on what to include in those email newsletters. So that's another element that they could offer another service. Right? Right and and David product integration automatically for example with your Facebook feed so you could post to Facebook your content and it would automatically be drawn back into Tidings to help form the basis for an ongoing newsletter, so it it's fairly easy to get that newsletter going and to stay in touch with your customers to me advertising comes later in the game. I think there's so much lower-cost ways of doing it and you know, the problem with advertising most advertising and businesses do is that you have to essentially reacquire customers and pay Google or Facebook to do so, whereas email marketing, you know, once you've acquired it with Google if you move into an email email marketing funnel, then you own them relationship and you're not having to pay to re-rent those same customers back every time so I think email to me comes well before advertising and it's also simpler life easier to understand easier to manage, you know, it depends on the vertical but to me advertising would be a little further down that Pike and I'm glad he's dead. I agree with you. I mean cuz email is definitely more accessible for a customer to understand everyone, you know checks their email in terms of you mentioned verticals. The next part that I'm very interested about is early on you're talking about like a very very small local business versus, you know, you might have multi-location businesses as an agency whether you're choosing between a smaller business a specific number to call, you know, multi-location businesses. How does the gmv proposition play into that? Like if you're an agency, how do you look at these different types of clients and start to think about who you want to go after right? I would look at it on a value basis. I would look for clients. I had an interesting conversation with a small agency and Inkster, PA last week and they look for clients that have a lifetime relationship with their customers so that they can help these businesses build value over the lifetime of the religious. We'll ship and they can then help Implement Technologies and every stage of that. So rather than the one-and-done customers, you know, the one-time HVAC installation wage. They look for businesses that do HVAC and plumbing and heating so that these businesses look to develop longer-term customer relations. Then they can provide wage not just Technical Services but more Consulting value services to help them build out those relationships and develop more value from those types of clients. So to me it's around the value of a client has post to the vertical, you know, I I have worked a lot in the legal space because there's a fair bit of money in the legal space, but it's a pain in the butt because lawyers want our epic Lee think that the world revolves around them too. They are always concerned with rank as opposed to real conversion metrics, which I've you know dead. They they view this sort of vanity metric of a keyword in my city ranking as the measure of success a lot. And that's very annoying to me. It's like to me the metrics should be did we send our customers last week or not? If we didn't, you know, let up our game if if we did then let's stop worrying about how your listing looks on the way you think you search page. How most people in the world search, right. So but you know, the other way to look at it is high-value verticals like Pest Control like lawyers, but I I'd rather look at it. From a point of view of businesses that want to retain long-term relationships with our customers. I think those are more fun to work with more enjoyable and long-haul more profitable less aggravating and yeah, you talked to a lot of agencies as well and know there's who what are some of the things that these agencies are doing. Well like when you talk to an agency, how do you know that they get it that they have an understanding of who their clients are what they do well, and you know, what? What should what should these agencies aspire to in the service projects are offering to these local businesses? Firstly I think the goal would be to build an effective digital platform that is accountable in terms of metrics and meaningful KP eyes. Once that's done. I think that agencies need to be moving Upstream things like Edwards are being rapidly commodified by artificial intelligence by Google most of the profit Google is wants for themselves or not. Let you keep a lot of profit. So you need to build value along all after you've established this digital core basis of services around helping the business office to prove I think to me that's where the real money is is ongoing how understanding of the business you're dealing with and what the next step for them is to just improve their retention improve their revenue per customer improve their overall bottom line, and I think the agencies need to move from local page. No in air quotes to local Consulting helping businesses with a strategic view of their marketing. That to me is what values ultimately I think you need to move out of tech will be on tactical not detectable is important but you need to get the business and yourself aligned to hire objectives. And so to me the agencies that seem to be doing that are the just a quick test for me is when they Implement a review program do they see the reviews as just one more Notch their belt and they get a Google review or do they see as a review as a potential way to improve the business and I can fairly quickly tell with gather gather up that the difference between them and I to me, I've I think the ladder which is helping a business improve is a much more powerful way to have a relationship with your clients that way and I'm glad that you brought up gathered up and and kind of customer feedback customer experience review management when it comes to agencies offering that what is the most effective way so birth They do you recommend for agencies to help the client in a Consulting way to get them set up with gather up and show them how to respond and how to use the reviews to improve business or do you see and it's probably a little bit of both but do you see agencies who are doing the review management for their clients? What are the the two Pathways in the process. We do receive both but I I even take a look over time. I've refined my view of how this should be implemented in a business. I originally thought that if you could hook up a business discipline themselves together the email addresses and get them uploaded regularly and would guarantee success. I think there's quicker ways to success and more emotional ways to success off and with gather up we've recognized that being able to reuse all of these existing reviews for your marketing as a first step is a great dog. You engage them to get them to appreciate the value of all these reviews and then to get the other benefits from it. So for me with gather up, what we try to encourage is Ace to do is to either be quickly get the website set up with segmented review content. So reviews about homeowners insurance go to the homeowners page reviews about auto insurance go the auto insurance page and reviews about Commercial Insurance. Go to the commercial insurance page set up things like the you know, the social sharing so that businesses can easily and quickly take their existing body reviews and remarket with them via Facebook by a Twitter and by Google post that creates an immediate value promote the Aging in the business now, whether the agency chooses to do that for the business or just helps the business to learn to do it. It's really depends on how you want to run your agency once that's done wage. Then you and they get excited about these reviews and emotionally attached to sharing their own Facebook. That's our stuff. Then you can worry about integrating the Revolt you asking process into their work flow. It seems to me it's it's always critical that agency understand how the business is interact with our customers. They can minimize the amount of work the business needs to do to keep something like gather up flowing in other words to get the email address or to get the SMS. Is it a Salesman interacting with a customer real time using you know our kiosk mode or is it the text back mode where the the owner of the restaurant just points out a QR code on the tabletop that encourages the customers use in the restaurant or is it as a peer integration with QuickBooks? I think you need to delve into the business enough wage. To create that tight integration so that once they start in the review process. So moving emails into it. It can happen with as little work as possible in the part of the small business because they what they don't have is time and I think it's the agency's responsibility to do that sort of Consulting to get to the next level. Once you've done the marketing and once you've set up a relatively educated way of moving through the ask process and you can start getting massive number of reviews. Now when I say massive number reviews, I'm going to talk a Google reviews know in the best scenario. If you're just asking for Google reduce, maybe 10% maybe 12% of your customers are going to leave a Google review. What we find is forty or fifty percent of them are willing to give you a direct review and thus I think that data both for web content and marketing is valuable, but it's particularly available then to help the agency helped that business take the next step to understand where they need to improve because the reviews you get from from Google Plus the revision get directly in other words 50% of your customers are giving you feedback. You've got a corpus of content that's a meaningful and accurate reflection of your business. And then you can use that content with the tools built-in together up and other tools to truly improve your business. So I see this as a very logical flow start with the market and get them excited do the integration. So it's automated Get 1st and 3rd kind of used to have a lot of data and then help them understand the management information that's lurking there, which is so rich. Oh, man you highlighting so many important aspect of it comes to offering this as a service and and you know understanding what you're saying obviously process is key and I can imagine that that would be a benefit of if you know your verticals or working as a specific verticals, you would understand the nuances of like how lawyers interact with clients versus like homeservice individuals where they're going to the house and they're having the contractors versus, you know to your point B the automotive dealership where you have the showroom reviews versus the Repair Shop reviews and so you would know what works best for even though each business is is has its own like little nuances that you have to understand with your clients knowing the verticals are probably, you know, it probably allows you to have a better understanding of what to expect when you go into that wage. Business and set them up right? It's one of the things I mean certainly being in a vertical helps agency scale more quickly because there is 80% overlap client to client as you pointed out everyone's a little different but both of them are same but the other approach if you're a more generalist take a more generalist approach because you have to for example, if you're a towel, like holy and you know there just aren't that many in the local market of any given a vertical then knowing the gather up in-depth as the alternative. Yeah, you know all the ways you can quickly move into a business have a short conversation with them about how they interact and help them pick the best way sweet. It is a little harder and I think you know verticals a great way to get started because it helps you focus on a fewer variables, but it's not the only way home but I agree with it. It's a good way. Yeah, and as we get to the end of the the podcast one thing I did want to ask you as well is towards the end of this you've been writing recently about using the contract in the reviews with like gather up tagging feature and specifically with Google reviews now adding attributes more and more to help people write the reviews. It kind of gives them a little some options of just bigger, you know categories to to rate the the actual review. How are agencies using the tagging and the attributes and gather up wage. To help their clients World tagging is we've had any other approach writing years. We've we we added Auto tagging several years ago in auto-tagging wage allows an agency to configure for both management and marketing subsets of reviews that are based on certain tags. So for example in the restaurant business office had one restaurant set up the multi-location set up tagging for when I called they weren't Chipotle's they set up what they called the Chipotle report. They were looking for incidence of disease or reports of stomach disorders so that they could assess whether there was a systemic problem that they were going to have to deal with quickly. So they would review this report everyday tagging reviews with words like stomach or distress or diarrhea or any of those words that could indicate that there were problems and they look to see if there was a pattern to them so they could Ed And quickly, they didn't find it another restaurant chain, you know saw dip in their MPS score when it is set up tags looked at a few reviews when instead of tags around Colby related issues and learned that some of their locations weren't implementing rigorous covid-19 standards, they up their national standards and their impact returned. So the tagging is just an incredibly powerful way to for management, but it's also incredibly powerful for marketing terms of generating fresh great content. One of the biggest problems with local websites is the lack of fresh content businesses. Like I said before one thing they don't have is time and changing content or websites. They're not going to bed liners. They're not going to be updating their content very regularly and reviews are the best source of new content that is key word related context related home. You can have and it makes your job as an agency super easy. If you're generating like I said content for the homeowners page content for the auto rental auto insurance page content for the commercial page can keep those key service Pages updated or likewise if it's a multi-location, you can keep those multi-location pages updated with current content that relates specifically to the geography. So it's great service for agencies to help small businesses deal with the content problem. Now all this rambling, I forget what the question was. No now you got I mean it just really smart and and I'm glad you touched on the covin situation and there's a really great article that Mike wrote about using masks and employee protocol about a few different package was it department stores or or if I compared National chains places like Home Depot Costco Walmart and a regional repair off. Home Improvement chain called Menards some of which implemented covid-19 In ours because they were so insensitive and forced their employees to the front lines to be sort of gestapo like enforcers of masking that our customers really resented it. So but it it it shows you though how reduce can be used to understand what's going on in a business. You can then use to explore what to see in the LED to it and how to improve it. So I just see covid-19. Failures management successes and how you might change just to note. I didn't answer I realized as I thought I remember the previous question you asked about attributes. So just to let people know what they are. Google review attributes has been have been tested by Google. They're basically they're the ability to add more granular structure detail to a reviewer Google test and then person 2010 with a product called Hot Pot. They test them again with this get they've used them in hotels, but then started rolling them out in a more structured way to Home Service businesses last fall. And then again, it's spring with an expansion bring the milakovich and we notice it where Google provides a structured mechanism for users to Evaluate a business. So when you give a negative review you're given three four or five negative attributes. If you give a positive review, you're given three four or five positive attributes structured the same for businesses within that class. So virtually every service driven business now has a slow lawyers accountants financial planners Pest Control locksmith movers all have these attributes and they what's interesting to me about them is that they have dramatically reduced phone number of ratings only reviews, which is important because raining only reviews don't tell anybody anything like that vanity metric. It's like it is it's just a phone number that's meaningless to both other consumers to the business to Google. Whereas understanding that you're responsible this decline during a certain place. And which is what these types of attributes can tell you is a very valuable piece of information to the business and other customers. So it's it provides great job of information, but it also provides a standardized way to analyze your competitors. Yeah. Yeah. So to me, that's really interesting. So you can crank your competitor in together up that has attributes. Yep. And you can see which of these three or four attributes you do better on than they do it also provides sort of focus for your contract if your website because you you get user intent from these right if the users are talking a lot about timeliness then you know, the timeliness is something if you're doing it well that you might be able to stand out from and then finally the other benefit of attributes is that they are what are called a semantic triple. So semantic triple is away from a shame. And understand and analyze entities. So a triple is an object and a predicate or a subject predicate in an object. So wrong entity being a business to Law Firm provides as the predicate Professional Services is the subject and this neat purple is a machine learning technique that Google continues to analyze and reason about that business. So it provides a Google with massive amounts of structured data to more accurately rank you and compare you to other businesses. So I love attribute because they speak to everything that I hold dear and the intersection of those things Google the business competitive analysis to Consumer all are brought together with the benefits of attributes to improve the review experience from just a bunch of numbers to contact Textual comparison between and betwixt different entities different businesses. It's crazy. I mean the ongoing value-add of that is just so obvious choice thing. That's just coming to me and is that you know, if you're a web design agency and you're responsible for doing content and learning about a client's customers. It's like why not get gather up just kind of use that for your customer resource just start the project get all the content from everything you've talked about of like looking at the value put it in the competitors being able to do that to generate what you're going to put on the homepage of your new client and then continue to offer, you know, review Management Services beyond that like so much good stuff here one thing to Pivot as we get to the end. I've been asking all of my guests in the context of covet black lives matter female empowerment. What is the world's of crazy Place? What's your right now? Cause what is either a charity or something that you can do in your job? Community that you would like to amplify to share to our audience. It could be, you know, domain donating money donating blood giving time up to your community in some way. What is dead is your right now cause I think Mission related efforts makes sense. So to me for an agency a mission related effort Would relate to the existential crisis that many small businesses are confronting in this environment and that is basically survival. And I think if they yeah, I know we're going to be publishing the spot to be researched soon on our blogs and see what you can learn from that is how to provide for example, a low-cost digital service for free to businesses that really need it. So, I think it's a way too long and it it speaks to all the the needs of your business as well as their business. So rather than you know donating to some local charity you can you can help get businesses by implementing a Google only project for them help them automate so they can approve their processes and then when they come out of this you'll be who they think off. When they move into a or full-blown digital marketing, but in the meantime, you provided a necessary service to them to help them survive that should show that we are currently in fact, I one hundred percent agree. It's such a good cause just take some time. It only would take like an hour a month if that go help out, you know a local business for free pro bono with their Google my business and generate some leads keep them open cuz we care about our communities Mike. Thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast. Thank you very much for having me. As you know, I love to talk. I'll always come back. I love it. And obviously I could talk to you for hours about this stuff. We both geek out over local. Thanks again everyone for listening and that was Mike Blumenthal of gather up. This is Gary susman the head of content Fort reject for the agency ahead podcast bite reject go get ahead.

Google Facebook Mike Blumenthal Marlon Brando Garrett Sussman David mamet Georgette diarrhea GMB Inkster David Miller Implement Technologies Menards Technical Services Pest Control Lee
Trump veto keeps US involved in Yemen war

PRI's The World

47:11 min | 1 year ago

Trump veto keeps US involved in Yemen war

"Support for the world's podcast in the following message. Come from legalzoom nearly two million Americans have used legal zoom to start their businesses with LLC's, Inc and more. But even after your business is set up. Legalzoom can still help you out things like lease agreements changing tax laws and contract reviews are all part of running your own business in these are precisely the kinds of costly hurdles that can take time away from growing your business. That's why legalzoom created their business legal plan checkout. Legalzoom's business legal plan at legalzoom dot com now and get special savings when you enter the word world at checkout. Legalzoom where life meets legal legalzoom dot com. Before we start the show. We have some news today is the first day of our spring fundraiser. We need a hundred and fifty listeners like you to make a gift in any amount to help us unlock thirty thousand dollars in challenge funds. Visit the world dot ORG slash gift to make your gift and thanks for your support. War Powers today on the world. I'm Marco werman. A presidential veto keeps the US supporting the war in Yemen and Yemenis wondering when it will end this war as the US is Warren their country as much as it is Saudis in the UAE's also as we wait for the Mola report. What makes a secret worthy of redaction most of the classified universe? Does not deserve to say secret more than a couple of years plus Japan wrestles with its attachment to well-made. There's a stand up front that sells wail cooked all sorts of ways fried, grilled bacon, style and gasping for oxygen at the top of Everest to put it simple buke probably start dying. Slowly, just imagine like having a lasting bag over your head. And your time is limited. Those stores are more today on the world. I'm Marco werman. You're with the world in one country. Ten million people are on the brink of famine today more than fifty thousand have been killed since two thousand fifteen those are just two of the many ways to describe the human costs of the war in Yemen, a conflict that involves US support for a Saudi led coalition. A rare bipartisan pushing congress produced a resolution to end American involvement in the Yemen war, President Trump has now vetoed it Trump called the resolution an unnecessary attempt to weaken his constitutional authority is I wouldn't say that it was unexpected Charene Daime was born in Yemen. She's now an assistant professor at Michigan State University. Many of us have expected Trump to continue to support the Saudis in this brutal war in Yemen. But I think it's still devastating given the impact of US involvement in Yemen. And this lost opportunity. I think for the US to finally take some positive steps toward ending this war. So it's certainly devastating and disappointing. But not unexpected. What have you heard from your friends and your family back home in Yemen? Well, I don't think I think Yemenis have gone through multiple rounds of disappointment with different bills in the Senate trying to build support for those. And then then falling through it took at least two years for this Bill to even get through congress, which is seems to have been a huge feet. I think you know, family and friends were excited at first, but they seem to have not been paying too much attention. Now, they see this war many of them see this war as the US is Warren their country as much as it is Saudis in the US's inside. I don't think anybody who's really holding their breath. But certainly there's disappointment because people are still living under miserable conditions. They are still experiencing the devastation of this war as effecting their daily lives end. This is just one more step that as preventing them from hoping in living in a country where things might get better for them. Born serene day may at Michigan State University. David Miller band heads the International Rescue Committee. He's also a former British Foreign Secretary band says the failed congressional resolution had a simple point the point was that the wall strategy America's backing some nineteen thousand bullying rates being low round by the Saudi led coalition with Americans all that wall. Starches failing failing in humanitarian terms I sold myself with widespread malnutrition, the world's second largest cholera outbreak. But it's also failing in political terms in the precisely the people who President Trump wants to take on the Iranians the radicals, they're actually gaining from the wool strategy. And that's why the decision of President Trump too sick with this failed strategy is so significant and so damaging what is this going to change on the ground as a complication in dangerous tinderbox really the result of the decision is to give a green light for a strategy that has been shown fail. Now, it's important to knowledge. Register that in January of this year, the different Ponte's came to talks on the UN specific to agree. A ceasefire agreement for parts of the country for the port of Hudeda, which is in the northwest of the treats under whose control, and it's an absolutely vital lifeline for humanitarian night eighty percent of the aid going into the country goes through the data. But it's it's a situation where this triangulation because because of the war that's going on around. There is an inability to get the aid in never mind the bureaucratic obstacles put in place by both the Saudis, Adam the who thinks I'm so the prospect now is that the ceasefire agreement doesn't hold we seeing increasing numbers of people losing their lives a hundred civilian casualties PO week in Yemen. Most Yemenis being killed at home than in any other place because they have honorable to this wall. The narrative out of Washington looks like. This a lot of lawmakers from both sides of the aisle came together to try and end US participation in this terrible Yemen war, and it looks like Trump wants this war to go on. But is it possible that maybe the war will accelerate and get to peace sooner is that even part of Trump's calculation? This is the wall that isn't going to be sold by mole bowling. It's not going to be sold by greater alms supplies. Not going to be sold by more refueling, which is precisely what the resolution was trying to tackle President Trump's determination that the most potent finished impeach support Saudi Arabia because they're opposed by the Iranian. I'm afraid leaves leaves Yemen to the precipice I mentioned the fine. But it's already had the second largest cholera outbreak in the world. It's the risk that ten million people will full from mount -ment into famine and the danger of this decision by President Trump is that it gives a green light to a failed strategy, and it gives such those almost sounded side who would say that it's possible to. Negotiate a settlement and therefore doubled down on the wall strategy, David Miller band heads the International Rescue Committee. He's also a former British Foreign Secretary. Thank you very much. Thank you so much. It took just a couple of days for nearly a billion dollars to get pledged internationally to help rebuild Notre Dom in Paris. Meanwhile, the United Nations is struggling to meet its goal of raising about three hundred million dollars for countries like Mozambique that were devastated by cyclone. It di- last month the storm left more than a thousand people dead and hundreds of thousands of people in need of aid. So what drives good Samaritans to donate to certain causes over others. I asked Michael Sanders. A behavioral economists in London who's written about this donate to charity is it's not a rational action says psychological and emotional asocial act. So when we see a Kohl's we have to make a decision to other tonight to end a lot of the time that comes down to we call social distance. So how can I relate to the thing that the causes trend? Saith unto support. So in the case of the Notre Dame fire. We can all imagine what I'm certainly most of his time when we've been inside a very impressive cathedral in a western city on how grand how amazing that was. And how much that gives you a sense of history. Whereas the victims of a natural disaster half a world away. Even if you know, we can all say rationally in mind that is much worse much larger tragedy more deserving of donation support. Even though we know that ration late, psychologically, it's harder for us to to make that leap and that kind of decision to donate. It's ironic, isn't it that a so many heart strings were pulled about a pile of bricks not to put it bluntly? But Notre Dame is a building. And in Mozambique. We're talking about a thousand people dead. So wouldn't you think people would find the suffering of other people more salient than a burn building? So under normal circumstances all else being who we would expect to see more money donated to Mozambique, then to some bricks and mortar. Wooden some loss being set fire to in Paris. I guess the point around the salience that was the old house in equal. So I I watched the news the other thing when the fire was happening. And there wasn't six hours of wool coverage of the tragedy be not speak ill of of you want. I mean to feed by you. But the that that was one's ability studied lies with the nedia. How much does one dollar donated to Notre Dom in Paris fair versus one dollar given to Mozambique or any place in southern Africa. Right now, can you parse that out certainly a dollar spent in Paris will not go anywhere near as far as dollar spent in Mozambique, and send me what you're thinking about doing with that dollar. So investing in saving artwork or brick so much building some sort of monument than what the plan is in certainly not going to achieve. We wouldn't expect the same amount of human guy tightness in and benefit society. As one dollar spent on food or medication the best money you can spend in. Jim Wilson's on day today basis as on D worming bednets as de worming bednets both been shown to have really really huge effects on the being the health of people in the developing world, and to have huge spillover effects de worming in particular, Michael, how do you think we could start paying attention and giving to charities helping countries like Mozambique recover from natural disasters. I mean, I accept that. Some of that is on our shoulders we in the media. So I think as you say, so if is under shoulders, I think what we recognize the we shouldn't just buy candy or chocolate when we get to the checkout in the store, just based on our motions, we don't really seem to get that. We should do the same kind of liberty presence far charitable donations in the same way. He wouldn't think about investing your life savings in fund without taking advice. Independent financial adviser. Michael Sanders a behavioral researcher in the UK who's written about the science behind. Why people give money to charity? Thanks very much. Michael. Thank you very much a US attack on Cuba. That's what. Vanna is calling Washington's decision to allow Americans including Cuban-born US citizens to sue foreign companies doing business in Cuba business that involves assets and property seized by the communist government decades ago. It's a provision in a US law that passed in nineteen Ninety-six, but that every president since has blocked not Trump secretary state, Mike Pompeo made the announcement today any person or company doing business in Cuba. Should he this announcement those doing business in Cuba should fully investigate? Whether they're connected to property, stolen and service of a failed, communist experiment. A lot of European companies do business in Cuba. Chris Bennett in London advises some of them as managing director of the Caribbean council. Here are some of his main concerns won't is the suspension of title, four of Helms-Burton, which effectively means that if there is a claim in the US cooled against a European citizen or a European investor who has presence in keyboard. Activity in Cuba. They would have the visa access to the US prevented. So they wouldn't be allowed to travel to the US the second area in which it will affect UK any you companies is that they may be subject for claims or have claims against them not only by US interests and US corporations US citizens who were expropriated during the Cuban revolution and fifty nine but in Cuban Americans who were Cubans of the time of the revelation, and who before nineteen Ninety-six became US, citizens, which means there is a fast number of people who have claims in Cuba. How expose our European businesses today in these investments are you able to put a dollar amount on what could be claimed. I don't have a dollar amount for you. There are obviously very significant investments, particularly by Spanish investors in the hotel space in Cuba, which is a very signif-. Current economic area of activity there also significant investments in cigars, and in rum, all of which are potentially subject to suits from USO Cuban-American claims. So yes, I think there are some substantial concerns how hard will it be for them to kind of track the chain of custody back to the communist takeover. I think that's a really good question. And I think that that is going to be a significant challenge, actually, but the will be tests that need to be met in terms of mounting that claim in terms of proving ownership of the original assets proving that you were actually ex-propriating proving that no compensation was provided or offered to you and proving that the foreign investor if you're going after a foreign investor. The foreign investor knowingly is trading in a confiscated acid. It is a very loose ambiguous language. That's used in terms of trafficking in confiscated acids, and is not clear, what trafficking means, and it's not clear how the course will interpret that. I do think we're looking at a future where it's just an unsustainable barrage of lawsuits what I would say is that the damage this will do is that a lot of these lawsuits will remain pending over a period of potentially years. And even if there is a policy change and title three entitled four are suspended. Again, those lawsuits will be effectively frozen in aspect, and we'll still be still be there. And they'll be any of those assets will have a claim sitting on them, which will continue to damage the investment environment for Cuba and prevent international esters look. Cuba. Chris Bennett, the managing director of the Caribbean council speaking with us from London about the latest US policy changes toward Cuba. Thanks very much. Chris. Thanks very much. What's really involved in redacting, a document like the Muller report? That's just ahead here on the world. I'm Marco werman, you're with the world tomorrow morning. A redacted version of the Miller report will be released by the attorney general, which means big chunks of the document will be blacked out officially to protect sensitive information. And that's just fine with President Trump grading. Grading confidence in the attorney general. And if that's what he'd like to do I have nothing to hide. But how do we really know what the DOJ is blotting out for some answers. We turn to Tom Blanton. He directs the National Security Archive at George Washington University in C, I s them first off about how the tax is blacked out. It's done on computers. These days they actually highlight texts that they think are still sensitive and they zap him and they have to under the freedom of information act. They have to put out to the side. What exactly they're citing? What exemptions do know of cases where two censors disagreed? Hell. What happens then on the wall at the National Security Archive office, Dan at George Washington University. We have a piece of White House E mail that was sent to Colin Powell when he worked in the White House high levels and the two versions are almost mirror images in the sense that the top and bottom of. Inversion or blackout the middle of the second version or blacked out the top and bottom or released, and they were declassified ten days apart the punchline it was the same reviewer both times I called him up. His name was on the document. What were you thinking? He says, well, there was probably something in the Washington Post sensitive about Libya the first week, so I had to cut that paragraph out. But the next week it wasn't Libya was the Saudis or something. So I had to cut that paragraph out. And so you get completely opposite views. My point is just that so much of the secrecy really is subjective. Even the sources and methods of intelligence that are so well-known in the world today. They're not real secrets, but the government's point of view is it makes a difference. If we acknowledge it therefore, you can have it on the front page of the New York Times. But that doesn't mean we can't still black it out when we want. So with the mullahs report what would have happened if there had been disagreement about what to include and whatnot. My bet is that the attorney general would not have had the folks in the room who would disagree with him. There's a kind of a self selection process. Among groups of sensors what we've found over two decades of fighting the the subjective. Secrecy is the key to getting the most open version of a document. His having multiple pairs of is from multiple bureaucratic locations. Take a look at it. There's an appeals panel that is of multiple agencies, and they overrule the original agency saying it was secret. They overrule him seventy seventy five percent of the time. It's so subjective. What about the rules or standards for reductions that we're using today? Have they been in place for a long time? They change from administration to administration the standards we have now in national security. I have been in place since Obama did an executive order and his order overturned and earlier order that George W Bush had diamond dramatically opened up a lot of the national security world on the standards for withholding informant material and law enforcement immaterial those of really been developed by the courts over many years. So there's multiple court decisions that lay out pretty rigorous procedures for what can be protected. I think the F B I has even won a court case saying that informants name from seventy years ago could still be censored from today document because the plaintiffs couldn't prove the person was dead. There was an obituary there wasn't a death notice. And if you can prove they were dead, then they are still protected. They still get redacted if the standards though change in future administrations as possible that years down the line, some of these redacted passages in the Bulla report could be revealed to the general. Public. Absolutely. It's like peeling an onion, we've gotten copies of high level documents over the years through freedom of information cases, where I version comes out half of its withheld gradually over time. I think the entire text will come out, and when people are doing the anniversaries decades down the road, they were more likely to have a complete copy than Muller reported than we're going to get do you think most of these documents deserve to be classified in the first place, though, a lot of them do in the first place. The big argument is over how long they stay secret. How long they stay in the vault, and that'll that's the big argument. I think even with the reductions in the Muller report, how really secret are they in how long are they going to have to stay secret pretty much everybody. Even in the security business would say that most classified documents can be released within a period five ten fifteen years only if it's like design of a weapon system that would. Empower some thug and some foreign country to really create danger for American citizens, then I think they have a basis for classifying that same thing with a, you know, some brave Irani and who walks into our embassy and wants to give us the low down on the IOT succession but asked for anonymity. You probably want to protect that person's identity for as long as you know, there's some danger to them. So there are some real secrets, and that's where I differ from people like Assange, and even Chelsea Manning new just wanted to throw it all up against the wall. Nothing should be secret. I disagree things. That would really hurt people. They can be they should be secrets things that are our bottom lines in diplomatic negotiation. Probably until that negotiations done that can be a real secret. But most of the classified universe does not deserve to say secret more than a couple years, and we should point out that sloppy reductions have created a lot of problems, right? I mean, I think of the ability to lift up the black bars if you don't know what you're doing putting the black. Bars in the first place. I think that's going to be that that's attorney general bars worst nightmare a couple years back. The Justice department under duress of a lawsuit had to release. This internal consultants report people had heard about it on the outside expose racism problems discrimination problems within the Justice department, the office at Justice redacted it using a computer program. Putting black blotch is on it comes out in the public somebody realizes. Oh, that's just an adobe acrobat. Oh, I can peel that often they peeled off the black and what was under. There was all this embarrassing stuff about Justice department employees complaining to their supervisors and never getting any Justice out of it. So that's their worst nightmare at the Central Intelligence Agency today, they print out the document with the black blotch is and then rescan the hard copy to send it to us electrically. So you can see they're worried about that many people. Will will cry foul? Given the reductions in the mullahs report. Will there be lawsuits challenging some of the black dot sections? He think I think they're already are lawsuits. A number of freedom of information cases that are already in court and those plaintiffs have some tools at their disposal. Judges have the right to look at a redacted document in camera as they say in their chambers, and that judge can can decide for him or herself was that redaction justified or not a lot of times. Judges don't directly overturn a government decision. They just order the government to do another review. And then when you do another review a lot of times, you get a different result. The judges do have the power to push back dramatically. The judge just has to have a backbone. Tom Blanton directs the National Security Archive. Thanks for talking redaction with Tom pushy, it a pleasure to be with you Marco tomorrow on the world will be all over the molar report with a review of what's in the redacted version, plus reaction from Russia and. Much more. A quick note before we get back to the show. This is the first day of our spring fundraiser here at the world listener donations help us meet the cost of sending our reporters all over the globe from Saudi Arabia to Antarctica to the US Mexico border. We need the support of a hundred and fifty listeners like you to help us unlock thirty thousand dollars in challenge funds that will help us to be on the ground wherever the next story takes us. Visit the world dot ORG slash gift to make your gift and thanks for your support. mortgage werman before the chinaman square massacre thirty years ago, there was a season in China went freedom scene possible that win ta ta ta two nine was trumped ably. One of the freest winters in China, remembering how the gentlemen protests began. That's coming up ahead on the world. I'm Marco werman. And you're with the world where co production of the BBC World Service PRI and w h here in Boston, dramatic news. At of Peru today, a two-time former president of the country. Alan Garcia is dead. Peruvian? Authorities say he committed suicide rather than face arrest on corruption charges Simeon Taegu's a reporter based in Lima. He says it was a startling seen earlier today at Garcia's house in the Peruvian capital. So police showed up at six thirty this morning to issue on arrest warrants. He initially appeared cooperative and also to go to his bedroom to cool his lawyer. He went to Ned not will offer a few minutes. A gunshot was hood police then full way in unfound Garcia sitting with apparently a gunshot wound to his head. How were Peruvians reacting to this news? I think it's to say that this news has really rocked. Peru. Unindo SIA is or at least was a towering political figure here. He was twice president from one thousand nine hundred five nine hundred ninety and then from two thousand six to two thousand eleven and was probably the most able politician of recent Reuven history. But he's also been in the last few years of reviled figure he ran for reelection in two thousand sixteen just six percent of the vote on the reason for that is this widespread widespread perception that he was corrupt his first presidency ended in hyper-inflation and all kinds of graft allegations against him Garcia, then left the country on was living in Paris while the statute of limitations ran out. He was reelected in two thousand and six but he set was mauled by. The Odebrecht mega-scandal. Oh, the breakfast is Brazilian construction company that has admitted paying more than a billion dollars in bribes to politicians across Latin America in return for public contracts on and go see presided ova mole contracts for Odebrecht than any other president in recent proof in history. There was an arrest warrant this morning before he killed himself. Does that suggest that Alan Garcia would have gone to trial, and maybe even served time? That's what seemed to be on the cards, basically prove him. Prosecutors have just reached this agreement with Odebrecht in Brazil that allows the company to turn over what it knows about. It's corrupt acts in Peru to the prosecutors hit without fear of Odebrecht executives being themselves prosecuted by the latest count, the company admitted to paying something like twenty nine million dollars in bribes within Peru. And from the leaks coming out in the Peruvian press seem that Garcia was. Heavily implicated just over the weekend. One of the big revelations was the Louis. Nada Garcia's personal secretary had received full million dollars from Odebrecht. I guess the obvious question is how much of that money was actually meant for haven. How much of it was meant his boss. But it did seem that the net was closing in on Garcia reported table in Lima. Peru. Thank you. Thank you Marco on his spring night in the Chinese capital thirty years ago. College students started walking out of their dormitories. They were marching chanting slogans nothing terribly extrordinary except in China in nineteen eighty nine. It was very extraordinary soon. A massive protests was underway in gentlemen square. And we now know how it all ended a massacre with unknown hundreds of people killed by Chinese soldiers. When the protests started, though, there was a sense of hope Ilaria Maria Sala was an exchange student in Beijing of the time she's on the line with us from Hong Kong where she's base as a journalist frequently writing for courts how. How did these student protests began remind us if you would allow. They started spontaneously when students heard that Hu Yaobang had died of a heart attack. He was a full moon party Dida had been disgraced in eight seven because he had supported the student demonstrations that happened in eighty six eighty seven he was very well known in China for being a reformist. So one of the worries that this shoot at hunt was that the party was gonna give him a subdued small funeral. And they wanted him to have a state funeral. So the students were simply wanting to honor who Yeong because he supported them. What were your Chinese classmates saying about this protests? Well, it wasn't just all wheel on. It was also a way to tell the leaders at the time. Time that they were not as popular as who we all down had been. There was a feeling of discontent. The feeling that party loyalty counted mall than loyalty to socialist principles. And also corruption was starting to be more widespread than it had been previously and political reforms were stollings. So it was so much freer than it is today control was much less intense. So if I think back on those days, some of the grievances of the students were expressing, especially in terms of political reforms seem now quite impossible to replicate. What was happening then was way more open than what we have today. I want to get back to that in a moment. Because hindsight is really important here. When did you go actually Ilaria to see the protest agenda? The square yourself. And what did you think what were your first impressions because protests of this sort were a rally the previous ones had been more than two years before? And a major leader had been punished for supporting them, the students were very careful to know who they were with. So they may show that everyone would March with their classmates which were then divided by department and divided by university. So that every moment you could look around you and only seen known faces. And if someone who wasn't a familiar face, you could say who is the person is a plainclothes policemen. Who's following odds of something like this? So there was quite a heightened sense of security and then through the night. They didn't nobody knew whether there was going to be some violence would have sold the students made show that myself. In a few of the foreigners that were there were in a safe place. So we were put around the monument to the People's Heroes. So that from the funny thing would have happened. We would have been protected by our Chinese classmates do that make you worried were you scared. I guess we were too naive to be scared. But I felt very grateful that people were so concerned about my safety the same time. My Chinese classmates all seem to think that it was going to be okay that this was so important. Maybe the wars little people had feared was maybe some someone might have been roughed up, but not much more than that. We think of China today, and we do not think democracy, and I'm surprised now to learn of a slow emergence of freer expression in China on the eve of gentlemen, do you ever wonder aloud area kind of what if what if there hadn't been this violence each of the central government had allowed a steady growth of pluralism? Of course, I do the on the on the to this is that if they had given what the students were asking or what was in the air before April may and especially June. We wouldn't have a one party state in China that winter ata two nine was probably one of the freest winters ever in China. There were a lot of different publications even the state channel was broadcasting programs. That were quite critical of the government, quite critical off social problems people. Among themselves were speaking in a way that has never replicated itself since professors the school would be super critical. We would read newspaper articles that were even raising the possibility the malls don't have been wrong. So how'd that continued that way? I don't see the communist party would manage to stay power. What about now? Because today, we see this unprecedented level of control by the Chinese communist party connect the historical dots for me. At least personally one of the greatest lessons of this is how much propaganda works throughout these thirty years the level of propaganda the level of control the level off convincing people at a different kind of reality place has been three D successful in a way that can be scary because we'll want to think that we are independent thinkers, and yet we are. So is manipulated. And one of the things that I see now is how much people believe that without controls without this a an hamster facial recognition etcetera. Life would be really dangerous, but such a large. Country can only be controlled through that. I am surprised how much people truly have gone this themselves of this. Loria Maria Sala is journalist from Italy based in Hong Kong today. She's been recalling her time in Beijing as an exchange student thirty years ago during the gentleman square student uprising Ilaria, thank you very much for your thoughts. This coming July Japan plans to resume commercial whaling, even as the country's appetite for whale meat is at an all time low. So what is Japan's attachment to whaling all about Abigail? Leonard reports from Tokyo. Key fish market in Tokyo sells just about every kind of seafood imaginable, including whale. There's a standout front that sells wail cooked all sorts of ways fried, grilled bacon style. Most of the customers here today remember eating whale as kids. Like this man in his fifties. Who says he aided in schools stir fried with ketchup? I asked him if he liked it. No. And like the Japanese have wilt for centuries, but consumption, really peaked after World War Two the country was devastated and food was scarce. So American occupation authorities urge them to eat more whale as a cheap source of protein. Me. This is an American newsreel from the time on will help alleviate Japan's food shortage and ultimately save over twenty billion dollars for American taxpayers. Just after the war half of all protein in the Japanese diet was whalemeat today. It's much much less people here. Eat only about forty grams a year per capita about the size of a slice of ham. At the wheel restaurant. I asked a woman how often she eats it. Never under international rules. Japan. Can hunt whales that aren't endangered for scientific research, but the media sold commercially, and there's a huge surplus of it stored frozen and warehouses across the country in January, the stockpile reached thirty seven hundred tons still prime minister Shinzo Abe's government continues to support willing to the tune of fifty million dollars in this year's budget. The secretary general of Abe's party Toshihiro Nikai, even gave interviews from the government cafeteria while dining on whale curry. I know my Bill. He saying it was excellent. I've never eaten such delicious. Curry we must spread the idea throughout Japan. That whalemeat is something we can't do without then late last year. The government announced Japan would pull out of the International Whaling Commission, the body that regulates wailing and resume commercial whaling in July. So at this point it's fair to ask with all the criticism Japan gets for hunting whales, and it gets a lot. Plus, the fact that very few people here, even eat it. Why is this country so committed to whaling I went to see Joji Morishita who negotiated Japan's upcoming withdrawal from the International Whaling Commission. Shoot us a symbol will respect for different culture and many people in Japan executive smell, right? We'll people from outside to impose food culture to other places. There's something else going on here, though, don't go Sukumar. A researcher Rikio university says Japan originally designed its research program back in the eighties. And it had to tell the Whaling Commission ahead of time. How many whales it would catch up? I'm in the Hogen up coots budgeting with us, you're gonna do this Japan. Go to international well income is shown with a long-term target like day say Dell catch a hundred wells a year by because it supposedly for research. They can't reduce the number Wednesday catch even consumption declines. But now that they're resuming commercial whaling. They're actually expected to kill fewer whales. In fact, the anti-whaling group Sea Shepherd called it a positive development. The group's boats have actively tried to block Japan's whale hunts and sequoia says that may have had an unintended effect must've say homes, you how could you like? Guyana that though, why did I mustn't extent? He does all the key much in home. Come up Baker. The ironic thing is that sea shepherd's activities actually seem to increase Japanese support full whaling. There's this feeling about them like here. Adi's westerners coming to Japan and telling us agriculture is wrong. In a survey found seventy percent of Japanese are pro-whaling. It's a point of national pride when Japan announced it would leave the international commission. Sekula says politicians were all over the news hailing it as a victory for whaling culture. At sukey market almost every customer. I talked to tells me they hardly ever eat whale. But they still want to protect Japan's willing culture. Koichi Matsumoto who owns the whale restaurant welcomes that but he doesn't expect the change to commercial whaling to make much of an impact on people's eating habits. Susic you boombox don't know vision is consumption is already so low it's not suddenly going to skyrocket. But he is hopeful that with the right kind of marketing people might even double their consumption of whale. In other words, going from the size of roughly one slice of deli meat a year to two for the world Abigail. Leonard Tokyo is that time of year when it's relatively safe to climb Mount Everest hundreds of people will attempt to reach the summit ninety nine percent of them. We'll take one of two standard routes, but to climbers American Corey Richards, and Ecuadorian Esa von topa Minna will be attempting to chart a brand new route up the world's tallest mountain. If they succeed it'll be. The first new lineup. Everest in at least ten years Corey and Tokyo actually met on Everest in two thousand sixteen. They told me that they'd sit at base camp stare at the rock passageway that bisects the northeast face of the mountain and think someone should definitely try going up that way, you know, the first time we we both went and was just on my God that is so beautiful. And it's amazing that nobody has done yet. So yeah. Team went to attempt it in two thousand fifteen and very strong team of climbers. And that was the that tragic earthquake that year, so the mount sort of closed down, and they left and nobody's been back since. So it's not going to stay on climb. Forever. People might be familiar with the idea of hiring guides to plan a climb up Everest and the the sherpas to carry their stuff, but for people who don't know the climbing world, you guys are professional climbers and a totally different league. How are you planning this ascent? What else is unique about this one? Well, the the uniqueness. About these claim is will a you know that we are trying to climb something that hasn't been climbed yet. We're not going to use oxygen supplemented logs Dejan. That's the next thing and the level of support like you will describe we won't have that support. It's the two of us. So a new untried and path no-shirt has no oxygen like what is happening to your body when you're not on oxygen on a mountain like Everest. So to put it simple probably start dying. Slowly, it just imagine like having a plastic bag over your head and your vital body functions. Start to fail like Zoli as you know. I maybe you remind on then, you know, your hard stomach give everybody just sort of shuts down slowly. Thing to do this now. Right. Exactly oxygen is the ultimate dope. Right. It's like that's what our body that is the ultimate doping. They just makes everything so much easier. Are you concerned about fatality, of course? Yeah. That's possible gone sequence. That's a possible price to pay. You know, if if things go wrong, but is there a certain point on the ascent where you just have to put that out of your mind. I don't know that there's actually a certain inflection point or turning point. If you get to a turning point where you have to make a decision to put death out of your mind, you're probably in a pretty bad situation. Oftentimes, people are like, oh, you're an adrenaline junkie and the truth is if I'm feeling adrenaline. I've probably already screwed up. Yeah. Oh, really? So, you know, it's like, that's that's not what we're going to do you sound like old hands at this? Because basically you are. So what was the first time? You tried something. Everest. Let me start with you, Cory. Oh. Yes. So the for the first time, I tried to climb ever was a tragic failure. I mean, it was it was a horrific mess. I just went in with a lot of hubris and unwarranted ego. And I got really put in my place, and rightfully so. I mean, I I went there with Konrad anchor, and it was in the north face in two thousand twelve and we were on a National Geographic expedition, and I had had some PTSD from being buried in an avalanche on on gash approach to in Pakistan in winter. I just was not ready to be there. And it was you know, it was a really spectacular in public failure. But to know that you're not equipped as also experienced to topa what about you. My first time was in two thousand thirteen was twenty three years old at the time. What makes you guys a good team like how you're climbing styles mesh first of all, you know, the old sort of style of climbing was that we there was a you know, sort of a lot of. Matiz mo- wasn't a lot of communication toe phone. I talk about everything we talk about our strengths. We talk about a weakness. We talk about what's bothering us. We talk about where I'm going to need help where he's going to need help. And beyond that, you know, Toboso a he's a beast. And I am more of like, I'm not. So there's you know, we have different strengths in the mountain. And I mean, what do you think about that Tokyo for me really the mitre of trust in other? Like, I really know that I'm going to climbed Israel with someone that I can trust my life on you know. And that's what makes you know, team team will be made like, you know, the goal is big enough to make our hands sweat. You know, like, we we know that we need each other's abilities to make it happen. We wouldn't be able to do it alone. But also we can really trust each other. And that's just the bays of of any good team. Best case scenario, you make the summit by setting a new course, what is the second best scenario. We just don't die. I mean, we always there's these three sort of tenants of climbing, which is you know, in order, come home, come home, friends, go to the top. And so if you do those three things, you're that's successful. You know? So you're both raising funds for this assent to the Everest summit on new routes. No ropes. No oxygen. It is expensive. I mean, tens of thousands of dollars expensive. I do struggle. But to understand why spend all this money. Why take the enormous personal risk? What actually drives you at the end of the day? Well, first and foremost, it's important to understand that climbing comes from a place of privilege, and we are in a time right now where it's important to look at privilege own it and talk openly about it. The other piece of that those that we can't necessarily take back where we come from or the sort of the careers that we've fallen into and climbing his personally helped me build a small, but but somewhat potent platform to talk. Things that are really meaningful to me. And what is your platform what I'm very very passionate about? Because of my own history is is mental health. I do struggle personally with bipolar disorder and major depression, and climbing has been away to find some sort of meaning in my in my own life, especially when I was younger and searching for that topa. What about you? What what drives you what drives you up mountain like Everest. You know, sometimes we even we climb, and it's cloudy, and you know, you don't really see. But it's all about the connection with the Monthan. I guess the tins ancient times people's been getting into the double things. Right. So it's just this filling of unity and driven to go somewhere. That's wild. That's hard. You know, it's going to record the best out of you. And, you know, be connected with something that you don't really understand. But just Bush's you to give the best you have as Topol Minna and Corey Richards on their way. To another. Everest summit this time on a new route with no oxygen ropes or guides. Thank you. Both very much for being with us. Thanks for having Bank. You it was fun. Yes. Dealing only get back -absolutely plan. All right did. But that was great take care Corey and topa have now reached base camp on the Tibetan side of Mount Everest their expedition to the summit could take up to two months, depending on the weather. We look forward to hearing their stories when they get back that is the world on this Wednesday from the NAN and Bill Harris studios at W H here in Boston. I'm Marco werman will be back with you tomorrow. He our public radio international.

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135: From Canada to the CPA

The Cycling Podcast

1:10:43 hr | 2 years ago

135: From Canada to the CPA

"The cycling podcast in association with Rafeh. From grand tours to group writes the Shawn's Elise to coffee shops Rafeh exists to celebrate the world's most beautiful sports. Lower welcome to the first post of wealth. Cycling podcast. My name is Richard Moore and this week show is a little bit different due to circumstances detained, Lionel Bernie. Spoon, our press conference episode, but we will do it as soon as we can all get together. In this episode, we're going to hear from front swath Tommaso, huge returned from Canada with a lively report from the two world, two races in Quebec, and Montreal, as well as interviews with Michael Matthews. Nathan Haas Simon guarantee and others in part to will hear from David Miller about his campaign to become president of the CPA. The writers union with the vote on this due to be held at the world championships in Innsbruck next week. We'll also hear from CPA spokesman louder mortar and impart three. We'll hear experts from two special episodes for friends of podcast which are being released this week. One is a tour of Britain diary from Mark diving. The other was supposed to be a tour of Britain diary from Connor done until his team Akwa blue sport pulled the plug on the eve of the race. Instead Conor Larry war bias. Did their famous Noga tour recording for the cycling podcast. This is coming as a bumper friends special later this week. We'll also hear from that bowl thing about his forthcoming tour of live shows and we'll be using our wealth competition. Winners lost fifth in. So without further ado, let's cross the front, soi in Canada. Well, we'll jumps us. You can hear. I'm being Marshall airports at the end of the long week of cycling in Canada, with exciting races. Usual is nine years now that we have the complex and. Going to Montreal and this year as you might have watched or see no discovered or heard where the great winner double winner. Michael matches was crowned in both connects city and Montreal emulating some guarantee. It was quite an emotional moments for matches because you know yet a very lousy season for reasons, he will explain lighter and you know, in the same time, he emulates some guarantee feat of winning both Canadian racism the same year on the very year when seven GARRETT'S announced his retirement on the end of the season, and actually someone GARRETT'S whom we into here. Again in this episode, he was there in in Canada there in twenty fourteen. And he was like the button between the two between GARRETT'S and Michael shoe. So excited in road racing in Canada. Here. I think it's fair to say that the goal please give and the Montreal now belong in the grand scheme of gussie one day races. Well, jobs lost to here. Lots to talk about and well, welcome to Canada. The sort of the kick grand prix, a little different for the multi woman. You have to races because it's more compacts. I mean, the circuit is the climbs are bit shorter race for in which some sprinters chance and order call Balladur. I mean, guys like driving novel mouth Peter Sagan one here favorites today are where Greg, Matt. Again, Michael machos of someone like even nation. That's the guys we expect to be doing well today, and I'll be talking to the starts to a number of Roger. I wanted to talk to Natan ask because he's done this before and done well, and he's always a good voice. You know, to talk about while races. And of course I'll talk as well to Simon guarantee. But the time when I'm speaking is record older of wins in Canada, one three times either in Quebec, Montreal, and in twenty fourteen he wouldn't both promptly races. Which is in presenting feet so well, that's listen to them. What's so special about this good Asian races. I knew seem to join them all the riders seem to injure them. What's what's different there. I think we get to stay in a CASA, which is pretty cool. It's always nice to come to North America for racing. The crowds are really active really positive audience, which is coal. We like that. We don't like racing and places where knowing. You know, for me, I probably throw me a small bias in the fact that I'm good at these races. So I like these circuits, these steep climbs and. It beats being in the Spanish sheet, Mondays. Did you lie circuit racing? I mean, it's you think it should be more worth to rice in the oldest circuits woman. I should say more. Yeah, there's a lot of races that exist in perfect way. Anyway. You know, best only issued become a circuit already is a big one. But you know, it's it's a fun way to race, and it's really cool because the crowd gets to see you here sixteen times before you even cross the finish line. So. It's a good way to market cycling, but it's not always possible and and to talk about having circuits in to that, all of a sudden becomes impossible because if someone gets dropped getting caught. And then how do you. Each time proud and other logistical issues. So it's racing's. Awesome. But they can only be so many, but what's the main difference would you say between Quebec and Montreal as races these climbs, you can see full gas from the bottom to top every single time in. Put in all you have to actually pay yourself. I think here's three thousand meters, climbing total. There's four thousand three hundred. So it's that's that's as much as any of the epic decide to grant, but it just comes at you on a on a lot that you do fifteen times to climb. So it's something that you know you battery just runs out slowly slowly and then all of a sudden you just don't have lakes. So we swim Garrett inside the start of the Kibuye grown pre Simon outages feel to be by here. I mean your direct on your the winner here whenever two of the two grand prix of the same year, what's the feeling back here? You've got a good feeling to come back here to Canada and keepsake see, especially, I think the whole rice enjoys coming here to great trick from Europe. Fantastic rice, Greg crowd. So yeah, we here, that's that's it. That's these racist could be the, you're very, very lush, racist joke career. It must be specially emotional Expos. Yeah, for sure there amongst my last rites. The seasons, winding down a little bit now, but I still have a little interesting and all this. So you have to keep riding belong yet. Do you have already ideal of what's next or is it too early to talk about it? Yeah, no, to these. Off to these have a quick trip back to his, try it then back to Europe again before hitting off to Japan in October. So like I said, Sylvia writing left to go the, what would you say these twenty four successes rather here, I'll do the rates in your career, would you think? Yeah, they're right up there with some of my my best winds and proudest moments cycling. Chuckling right truth running. Really. Another Reuter in token to an while this is recorded after the race. So. I know what the outcome will be. It confirms the trend is set in on the tour front. So interview the day's winner before the start. I mean, it's, it's, she'll look, let's be clear about it and talked to Michael matches. Finally wins in Quebec about this season so far, why it's been so bad, then what is prospects for the end of the season now? Well, first of all, explain that problem with saddle was actually not well position. There was a little bit high eight millimeters and apparently it affected is writing throughout the season. And that's the first thing is going to answer about. And then of course, we're a reaction to is non qualification for the words. Much. How did it affect you Michael, that deadly will difference in in a seat heart. I mean, it affected the legs effected what I think it affected everything you could see from the White House racing. I wasn't able to do anything. And then you could say straightaway Bank employee, as soon as I had the right seat height, I could race aggressively again, like I should. Unfortunately, it's like this and after accept it and move on, I guess you've always been a major factor in in the end of the season, especially with the worst coming this year, the worst it'll be different in Innsbruck they're supposed to be. So how'd you tackled at the end of the season this year? I had very high hopes to go to the world championships this year. Richy part is really one of my best friends, so I really wanted scar there and support him. But unfortunately, cycling strategy, I didn't think I could do a good job for the team and decided not to take me. So yeah, I'm a little bit disappointed veasley. You really wanna go vote championship to help you help your really good friends out to to win that gold medal and help us strategy. And I think I would have been really good at that, but that was really my motivation for the end of the season was to be good at the world championships, and I was training Ritchie poet before being Bank tour, and I know what sort of form is in. Yeah, then I got the phone call recall being anklets. I wasn't writing. So yeah, I'm going to be disappointed, but at the same time you'd never know something happened to the guys in the in that are in the team ready and maybe I can still get a spot. So that's my motivation still to to keep pushing and try and keep keep good results coming and see what the fight that should not be for the word. It's just probably you. In these races? Yeah, I think I would have to probably be better climate if I was really targeting the championships to help help Richie. But now that it's not a not on the cards anymore, I can focus on a little bit more punchy stuff, shorter, climbs and having more power. So we didn't hear closed many times knowing that you you live to hold anything. I'm not saying you ever held anything, but does probably. Maybe even more of a chance this. Yeah, I know the question you're trying to ask. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Yeah, for me coming here this year, it's a little bit less stressful, I guess, especially after not during the two fronts. So normally to the Twitter, France, and then these races towards the end of the year, you don't need to train so much. You're sort of you've got your form, but coming here now I've had to train a lot with multitude of FRANZ. So yeah, it's a different preparation. I'm just gonna go into the rice, a lot more relaxed and with Clayton head and not put so much pressure on myself to really win the race. I'm of Asli going for it hundred percent. But yeah, I'll try and play some games and see what I can do have fun. And I think that's when I raise the best. Quick summary of what the topic grand prix was. The bouts, as I said, ready as we all know if you're sure if you listen to that, your second fans, Mike much is one in connect city just quickly to summit the the racing in Canada, very often was guess again in Quebec City. You have nearly break most of them involved in lots of Canadians and members of the change in team, try to show themselves at the highest level, and they usually leads for like eleven, twelve laps, collect KOA points, and you know, and try to old to pay as much as they can usually put brings them back in down in the last couple of laps, then you've got several attempts was a kiss again, this time with people Fukuzawa gore trying their luck and in the end. Well, it was a case in both Ray. This this time you have teammates trying to make sure the bunch of that group as possible for their leaders to, but or it's out in the last stretch, there was a case here the the main part of the most important part into racy of while the funnel climb, obviously, and the funnel stretch goes from the shuttle haunt neck where you'll writers are staying which means from time to time to go back to their rooms before there is finished and under the of treasures up tours conned alley, which is kind of the shows Lizzie or the more of Quebec City. And and that's a long uphill sprints. And while this time, obviously it was one by Michael Matteo's head of Greta, van which settle seconds for third year in succession. And yes, bestow even thought who probably studies prints a little bit too early at settle for another podium place. Sovan very gifted young riders. Looking for his major breakthrough, but we sure it'll happen sometime. We sell snooty founder and president of the grand prix series. Yuki bay can rob this, the Montreal. I mean, you personally sell, you always showed great respect for cyclists and for the sport of cycling. How did it sauce? I'm in your Canadian. You should be into ice hockey, maybe Formula one a little bit, but I've come cycling, came into your life was nineteen seventy nine. The mayor of Montreal after the seventy six Olympic summer Olympics Montreal sit surge, we should have something international so that it will be kind of don't falls of the Olympics. And other time I chose the marathon. And after that, my father in law was kind of, you know, a writer cycling and was always said me. You just pick up, you know the wrong sports. You should switch to cycling. Enough to that seventy six. I covered cycling as well. And in eighty eight, either long conversation with the hydro Bogan e was starting the gym on time. And these idea was we have to get out of Europe and search to organize races on the continent done. I accept to organize these races I, it was trying to success and I felt in love with the sport because we can make a parallel between the marathon and citing at one point. You was suffering. Then it sort of affair between the sport citing and myself. And again, I'm still, you know, I feel like a kid site thing for me is passionate. So sometimes it's a costly mistress. But anyway, I enjoy very much and cycling world give us back in everything. You know, we give them, you know, we were dreaming of abyss riders to, you know, writers to the best rates and that's what we try to achieve, and we have to start. First of all, I consideration in organization was support wise. I never take a decision that is Notre lead to to sport, don't fall in the trap of over merchandising or whatever could happen. I mean, business done an eye out to sell to, you know, writer, I love ary much in our team and these. Little bit, you know the the policeman of they're gonna plea. And you will make sure that everything is up, you know, the right place for the right reason of sold. It's a brilliant mind and he's know he's the guardian of what are doing here always with the same objective organized to raise for the riders. Nothing is. And I believe that here in Quebec and Montreal because of the physically dec- tuition, everyone the same old l. I mean, writers team journalists, organizing people. It's great because everyone talked to each other and we can have with lots of pleasure. I mean, the friendly talk and serious toll sometime discussing. Also these mothers. And for example, yesterday we, we know that every year we invite on the evening all the team, Derek. The two together. Good loss of wind and everyone leave it to tool clock in the morning and we have sold. I mean, most of the problem of the world, but the it's a small thing but important because right after that, we feel look, we're not opponent enemy. We're not, you know, one against the other. Wim to Quebec City. Groppy's finished. The writers are taking but bus Montreal. It's a three hour ride than they're in the very center of Montreal. It's not really urban circuit is it's more around the park of ya'll and which was actually the race call for the nineteen seventy six Olympics and was also the same calls that we used for the compromise Amelie in the nineteen ninety late eighties and beginning of the nineties. He's a very hilly circuit designed for clan biz or sold off. Another littlest sent was added this year to make it even trickier, but in the end, what what did we have? Well, almost the same. You know, riders, we saw in Quebec City with Michael, choose winning. Again, ahead of sunny Brady was really, really, really set up and let out spice bar in Marietta teammates, but and looked like he was about to win it when my. Machos at the extra kick to go for victory and I was in charge of the press conferences. They're interview Michael Mathieu buddy success and about emulating some in guarantee by winning at two Canadian races. All. Myself, to be honest. Forty. And. It was something special. Cycling strategy. But these these in a row. From. To be here. Witness meal. Special. Pretty five might be in the military. In other team. When he was. So it's still Monday for a few hours before we head back to the airports to well to make you back to Paris with the well. Most of the poodle Thome that in back to Europe for the end of the season and and the here at Espresso cafe well, we met Google was one of the Canadian riders in there were tour right soil team Astana. And so while it was a chance to ask him what he's liked to be a Canadian in pro bulletin these days, if it's easier difficult. And here is what you go to say important for Canadian riders. All these two races. It's important for us. It's a good change to show or south in front of Republic in front of the funds and had the word yesterday. Really tearing hard for me to break away was a great feeling. I mean, I raised in Europe all year long and it's just nice to derision front of my own throw and how fun we have some really nice organs. Asia would Gump Steve. For us on the map with the Quebec cycling, and it helped to promote disbar hauled Rome, province of Canada. So really nice to before it is nearly ten years, the grand pre nudge, do you think it it actually created vacations and guys who really get into because of the grumpy for sure. I think all the kids you see on the side of the roads just gave variation and show what is cycling is in Europe and the Kucher. I think it's a really important to to show what, what is it? And I hope it tends fear people's do move more and get cycling rec- nice movement in Quebec. In general, lots of people going to bike nuts, fishy for racing, but just a training, talk with people do also business meeting on the bike, so decides to see that supported keep gory, how difficult is each for? We can agents to become a pro writer. I know that usually you have to move to Europe's away from family and friends, and even the wounds. Stay in Canada. I mean, it's very easy to train in the winter. I mean, I is it a handicaps. Canadian to be pro. Cyclist has does for sure there's end a cat, but also. Advantage. I think sometime when we are in Europe are really focused, but as three DR to be away from Tommy's girlfriend. To be away like half two years. So I can see her and defame knee. Also, I'll always say, when cycling go, well, everything is cool, but when you start to have shit feeding on the bike and you crashing alone near small apartment in Europe, and then you're like, why do all this vice did I really liked biking and then the day after keep going because great fashion. The roughest lightning club is the largest label community of its kind members shed a passion for the road, three rides events, exclusive club kits and racing, find out more of Rafeh don't see, say. Thanks very much to Rafa for being headline sponsor of the cycling podcast and don't forget the Rafeh host. Regular writes every day of the week from more than twenty clubhouses around the world, visit Rafeh the CC to find your local right now. There has been much talk about the CPA the professional cyclist association in the weaker. So since David Miller nights isn't tension to challenge Johnny venue for the presidency. The vote is an Innsbruck next week, but low writers appear to be unhappy. The system vote thing, and the found that the CPA seems to be dominated by three countries, France, Italy and Spain. Some high profile writers and couldn't guarantee and Chris from. I've been very vocal and social media in complaining that Leslie physically Goethe Innsbruck, which in their case they're not. They will not be able to vote is become a fraught issue and seen by some as an old world versus new world battle the Dutch and Belgian federations have also been unhappy with the way the CPA is run. And the CPA has its own legitimate complaints, not least difficulty is hunt and collect the money owed by some race organizers Lionel spoke to Miller, the CPA and his campaign to become president. We'll hear from him in a moment. Then we'll hear from louder mortar, the CPA spokeswoman who works closely with the current president Benue unresponsive. Some of the claims and comments made by Miller while I put my cell. Ford is a candidate for the presidency of that CPA which is seeking professional associated international professional cyclist union. And something that's being a couple of years and the brewing and then went off the boil this past year. And then when I found out about. Five weeks ago that would be election at which ships I suddenly thought, you know what? If I didn't do it, nobody else is going to nothing's going to change. So I got in touch with the committee in the president's and the president secretary untold them on the twentieth of August that I would like to put my concentrating. One of the reasons that I'm doing this as well as that since this EP was created in nineteen ninety nine, it's only ever be had a presidency that's been handed over for intern. If you like the first president was Francesco motza. Cedric and Susan's being Jenny and says, never been an adversary candidates, which obviously, when you don't have that, this is not bait and she never been any voting really because the committee directors, which is made up of member nations of which six vote on behalf of the writers they represent and that then gets a little bit complicated in the sense that their six nations currently, because this yet Belgium, the Netherlands poodle the CPA because of well, maidens agree on certain things. And so each one of those member nations delegates, if you like they then. I I'd imagine but I'm I'm discovering. They pull that writers. They make a decision themselves. They might talk a few influences. So that means that the six nations, FRANZ Italy, Spain, USA, Switzerland, Portugal, and FRANZ have most and that presidents and their committee direct with a community Representative is pets kosh onto and he is one hundred and fifty one votes. Now these votes are made up of each nation's will too and pro continence professional, cyclists. I don't see the older nations like FRANZ, clean, Spain. If the most has it fronts. One hundred thirty one. I go exact numbers from Italy. Let me asking one hundred fifteen is what I go from the, but that's goes up or down five or ten spe ninety USA well, especially USA's North America. The PSE has sixty five Switzerland have fifteen Portugal, have fifteen again taking account that plus minus five to ten. And so that means. Total. The six members on the committee carry four hundred thirty one votes which is nearly fifty percents of the entire peleton of world tour professional, cyclists, they, those six members will make the votes on the twenty. Seventh of September in Innsbruck at championships at committee me on the Thursday and individual writers who are not represented by the nation's or member on the committee can vote, but they have to go to the assembly meeting in Innsbruck Naff we take into account as what around two hundred writers in the world championships. Take away about forty of those fifty of those who are represented by member committee. That leads approximately one hundred and fifty writers who can vote, who will be Innsbruck already, which means that essentially FRANZ one person committee could be all those writers if they chose if we're looking at sort of majority. So yes. Have a weight system, and I think now the the right isn't learning that. It's not very Representative and democratic system, and I think that's the moment that's the biggest push that I'm trying to educate people on that something needs to change going home and Chris didn't have a votes because they wouldn't be the world championships. It's a very sort of big Sean if you like. So yes, if you like the professional cyclist, they felt disenfranchised for quite a long time, but a CPA because it's it's been working. It doesn't good wet wrongly, crates joint agreement between AGIP which is official team to say CA shin, which push into contract set in rights of federal cyclist, like minimum salary, other things they could do more and that's needs to be something that's renegotiate to the next year. They've also with the extreme weather. Cool. That was actually something that I was this pay Representative negotiates with the race organizers. On the teams. They got the celerity fund, which is a fund of money that is pot. Of how the CPA's funded CK's funded by taking a percentage, two percents of the total price fund of the professional, cyclists. And then that's what funds plus a hundred thousand years approximately from the annually and then right is connect- when they still racing to putting of years, they've raised their crew certain points, which then gives them a payouts when they're tired of the maximum is twelve thousand five hundred yards if you've done. I think that quote of ten years and that's that's about where it tends really. And unfortunately, because of the very fact that the right is feel disenfranchised have never voted and went even aware of. This folks wouldn't have been if I hadn't been put my name forward. It means that they don't really invest in it and they're disillusions in the note committed to it and that something needs change say, some it is total price accounts. Well amounts that will to professional cyclist make in these. See are aware of that, and that's quantified and up to now that went through a company Netherlands mostly now that's being changed is going to another company, but out of touch with that price money, the percentage retained and payments of Bank accounts in Switzerland. And that is then the CPA's money like such, that's he's oppressions small percentage, small percentage, and the rest is then accrued on behalf of this sollidarity fund is code. And is it tights live to percents taken for this price million? The numbs are sketchy, and this is something I would like to change as well, because the hasn't been total transparency on the accounting niece, spe- independently audited. We need to know what's going on because the is rumors that this fund is is on the brink of insolvency which is. Not. Good to hear this. I'm not even sure if the CPA reports how it spending the one hundred thousand years receives from ECI each year. Appreciate the rights never received clear counting of how the money is spent either operations all with t. fund. So these are things that needs to be clarified as soon as possible. At the moment consi how I can win this election. I'm Jenny. Bunia has already security or no. He's already security Italian vote. So that's what one hundred and fifteen light already to his name. I believe France committed as well as at hundred and fifty. One say we're talking two hundred forty six Rytas already which means is effectively impossible for me to win, but hopefully what this will do is way Cup. The pellets him as a whole and the media and the CPA intently that is dysfunctional currently and that the future CPA copy it. Remaining states is quote because the status quo is not good enough. We are very strange sport in the sense, it's quite disparity in the sense that the right of the Scots it everywhere that the contracts are short term. The teams, volatile at the best of times and say, the one consistency is duration of professional cyclist career. We're looking at probably. A decent Krier is between six to twelve years. An of often banks different teams, the one consistency as peleton that and I do believe stunned by this, the pellets on can be the most influential and powerful voice in cycling. We unify the peleton then that will be the only ends t- inside that is unified race organizers announced unified. We have us, yes, flying classics. A SO list goes on, says of sleet towers, both the mall that's not to say that they own the sport, the federation's national federations again, Scott it different operation methods. ECI is distance and honest with you shouldn't really be involved in professional sports, television rights scattered all over the place and as news sign and on the horizon of that changing. So that means that this one buddy within federal cycling that can be unified and can transcend all those different. Buddies if you like, and that's the peleton. Pellets on the unifies and become strong. We can be able. We can help unify the other bodies. That tends to be the scattergun walls and week tends to be the clocks damage or they, we them on the longer. We in the pellets home, but I feel like I am hence why I'm doing this. And I d think that the peleton Cam pats be a grounding force in the whole freshman cycling because let's face it. Things are getting better, but they should be getting a lot better and it's just not happening quick enough. The moments is CPA that's represents the writers and the right is betting on the CPA exists. The amounts of writers I spoken to and especially young writers who have no idea what Jenny, but even looks like in most of the CPA correspondences. Never Jenny voice so ways, the president sexual, our motor or another CPA member who feels I talking up the fundamental problem we have is that these decisions are made and then not the peleton's decisions that the CPA committee decisions and they are not representing the peleton as a whole, the the majority and that is fundamentally wrong and is not how a union should work. And this is the number one issue we have. The CPA has to represents the entire professional peleton not six people's choice. This women's CPA's whether to women's unions in the moment because they splintered. And ninety world. We bring bring them back together. Nine points in having resources split who need to make sure the women's sports is is unified as well. And I think they have paid a price for all this internal if you like battling and to be if she had the kind of foresight to Spencer often start their own union. But the problem is now conflict to unions representing women's professional cycling. We've we need to try to bring them back together, I think, and regards to professional and proconsul to, yes, at the moment that Seoul it is. I think that's a big enough bats. We need to get that working first before we look further because that's already as we can see that's proving to be an incredibly difficult challenge. And I, for me, it's becoming quite daunting how difficult it is to to to change us to Nonni rock the boat changes direction. Allison at a couple to who's the Italian who's the president of the women's CPA equivalent. And so that's you. Fakes we have those two groups and the psyche lines makes sense being spoken of with men as well. But for us, I see as being realistic option, we need to fix this EPA because the CPA has the joint screen with AGIP. It has the affiliation, the recognition, the and there's a two huge things and those sort of thing you want to just ignore in and step away from and it would take many years to renegotiate those. And and so I think the the realistic pragmatic and be honest with you, the best option is to get the CPA can properly that are nine hundred just under a thousand. So two writers. If we're unified, the world turned pro continental numbers. That's one thousand riders and the moments. Well, over five hundred of those. Don't vote well, they do votes, but they'd have to turn to the world's and that's simply not going to happen. So I think my biggest in these first weeks, if you like of this kind of campaign is to educate people educated peleton Patato months. Even aware of this system is taken weeks for for me to extract it from the CPA what the voting system is because they've never had to apply it is just being internal discussions and agreements between the the presidents of the the affiliated nations, and they come to the deal. And I don't even think they do a proper vote to their writers. They represent, they might speak to a few of them and that's it. So that's not democratic. And that has to change and they simply has to change. I've had quite a lot of good conversations. I did this and after I informed a lot of more Janney Puna. Who than whites to two weeks. Two more actually because Janney went spoke. Some wasn't show she whether he would run when he lends my kind of the seat and then took in two weeks to to decide, and then they informs the committee without informing me first so ready. That was a bit of a grey area how that was handled. But in that time in two weeks, I did reach out to a lot of rights and the the the response has been positive. So that's been reassuring. Obviously, if it hadn't been overwhelming positive had to rethink my kind of the, you know what I think is much of that support comes from the facts. I represent change and and willing to put my neck on the line to to educate the peleton and media of what's going on and to try and force change. So I think you know, I represents as much as anything else. The first one is. Treating the right is as true members of their union. And that is the one writer, one vote and then creating within that official roles in the peleton a rightist congress of sorts where you have a writer within each team who represents their voice to the CPA and also creating. I think we going back to the fundamentals beyond the that sort of longer term. It is crazy types transparency into the Bank accounts. This independent audit, this reset of everything that's happened to date, then renegotiation once we've done that and hopefully one over the writers for sets by Creighton's one right to one votes is to discuss with them. The option of either be able to raise the country should price money to raise the funding CPA receives in order to recruit small professional staff to increase the the is capabilities. But then also it's increase the the solidarity fund on the payouts. It would also be to talk with corporate sponsorship to look at trying to get insurance policies, the cover the whole pellets onto look at getting supports for Rytas any joined the career. But in the transition after that creates to let for the real world because we have nothing in place to help writers when they finished by crossing, should we be looking at crates educational programs, even looking into mental health issues? Because I think that something we see over and over gun federal cycling finish the career, the court is cuts. No one really sort of helps in that transition to find a way of help right? Is that injured who lose their career again, that something that CPA should carry sets and responsibility towards bring actual current writers to the negotiation subcommittee. If you like that we create women during the joints agreement with federal cycling teams. Because that's something at the moment says, we just discussed before the right is she have. Curran's voice to help and to shed a message of what's going on when we're talking to teams. And then I think, oh, say this, which eighteen crazy a pellets on white grew messaging platform. This sort of thing where we can create this, this online presence, where it is something that is live than an up to date and also interactive something. We don't have increased communication. The communication currently isn't up to Twenty-eight teens thunders, and that goes across all medium, be website, basic media channels at press releases, beat relationships with the media, and the list goes on because the so much that needs to be done that hasn't been done is to kind of repetitive to start. Again, we just gotta stop. These things haven't been done. He wants to get so points where the right is respect the effort that race organizes that TV companies have put. Sport because they'd been at the table and they shed the discussions, and there's a rational plan in place UNIFIL possible to actually wishes freshman site can be very difficult to do anything, but this is shed belief that things are changing. Does a common future go? And then we have that. And I think as you say and in many, the races, we seize instance happen. And yes, we spoke about one of the things to see pay. We'll say they've helped with security. Yes, we got three Clements ruled put in place, nothing that was mainly an PSE American union that push that through and creates documents on it, but it's not being enforced and the east. I have technical advisers now outs on the road to verify situations again as not being transmitted well, well enough, what's going on. I mean, every pro cyclist empathize with the racial Caniza. You can't have a racist three weeks long, two hundred clubs every day, and one hundred percent safe that are always going to be instance that are outside the organizers control. Try. Two is limit what they what is possible. That three one seems a perfectly sane thing and controllable rather than us two hundred clearances. You also three case, three ks Richmond's critical points in the race of final three ks come. We have that guarantee that it's always the same was the same every single race at penitent us says a standard note. Again, everybody understands that wrote them inch. The difference said things, but there has to be a basic outlined that is stuck to, and I think it's things like that. And I think the moment we get the peleton joins gather unified Rodney's what union, but joined in unity than this potential to have really rational, intelligent and productive conversations between the different stakeholders at at the moment that oughta conversations stakeholders is simple, reactionary social media, individual reactionary, and the reason the right is going social media to react because that's the only voice they have going. We're going to speak to you and that's the point. And that's what we've got to change. I think the CPA has to be strong enough to to be able to help write as if they get into situation where contracts team terminated, something that that is cemented that is made stronger within the joints agreement between teams. But again, these are things that seem like fundamentals, but it's never been done in the sport. Sports is so is I often think has a global spoil cottage industry and the fact that in a sport this big on the global site, if you like in the audience, has he situations vice regularly? It's not really good enough, and I think that the UCI and the vision of just reducing teams and numbers will that's not going to solve anything assured Tim solution to a long term problem. And so I think we've really got to think bring new people into the sport, bring you mines, bring a big, a unity. And we're all in the same boats, let's get it working properly and rather than jumping from lifeboats or just running around plugging holes and bilge pumping because that's what it feels like at the moment. First of all, I mean, does a CPA feel that the current voting system is is fair. No shooting in. I don't know how transfer. I mean, we, we do feel the fair says that it doesn't effectively allow many riders to express vote. But at the same time we we must respected shoots and this point we can't change everything. We think we, we never had that issue brought to to our attention before neither from the or other members that we're not authoritative. And we didn't think about this because it never had been that the trunk boot booze was youth. You know, the situations, like for example, the commission, our UCI commission, they mean every time we have to take to the Shiite commissions. We always have to impress there and you never use these boots before we even think about this. But now that every. If we right there ask for these kinds of who methods we, we will definitely consider king shooter, moved precedent. Remember who would be, I think, who was with change such and make sure that all the riders will be with have these, right? I mean, but to than our intention to. To avoid these it. Detroit vote each would just not possible to put it in place. The time we such a short to get a of kind. There's been quite quote, writers have been quite vocal on social media and so complaining by not having the opportunity to vote does not concern the CPA that you know the people that you represent. A lot of them do seem to be on happy. Complaining about not being represented or not heavy superior to do with his job for them because maybe these these risers, which she rider and on your right those coming from some particular countries complain. But there are many more that don't. So you should be fair in Quincy. There didn't not of the peleton. I mean, we, we have tried to respect the rules. We opened our door and we people into over meeting. Then we founded must station recruits to you members to create a new national associations. Why all be people starting from England, never to. What why there is no English national association in this way is suspicion with one person. The prince hint of national cessation would would have been able, for example to go for all their riders, but. These people knew these people knew the statutes. Why did he didn't do anything in order to represent their writers? And they didn't even ask for an trunk boot even with meter. I mean. If. It's fair now, three weeks before the election to to raise the writer against our Pugh met with any should have come earlier and the us for these and he's Kathy's our tables, and we imply any if we would kind, we would do everything possible. You know to make it real. In the room are. Talking about this appears not being democracy, good, trying to hide things not to allow right there through, but it is true. We are actually surprised because these people whose of can for these new boots giving us for the change before they were our tables. They never did. We let bedded Miller in January two thousand seventeen. We proposed to become bus president of the Sapir and we wanted him to come to a working sessions. Never kidding. The three weeks before the election and the I mean, the scene everywhere. The media social media that the democratic. 'cause he's doughnut how Tron vote you should have come earlier and then not talking trigger of boy, I'm talking favor and the and the work I do for the I. I mean, it's very said to see. What we read them to social media. Snuck share as well as the obvious English speaking writers who we've heard a lot from on social media and some of the traditional cycling countries like Belgium and Holland have obviously withdrawn from CPN it does. I suppose it does Luke from the site as if a lot of power is in the hands of will three countries in particular France, Italy and Spain. You right? I mean Belgium in them where you started his phone, there of the key. We were together until a certain point in the Ted you when when you see, I decided for a new plan for the press management. So we must see why these association decided to get out from the is not because this is not Democrats gets the, but because because there were different interests behind, they're going out the decided to go out the either one to stay after this decision on the price money-management was. And the truth is that the founder of the Dutch association is also an interpreter into the business of the price. Money-management didn't agree about. Our decision our plan and you decide to get out and he started his personal fight again. And this is not fair. I mean, we felt that the good of the rider come before the personal interests of someone and Jen, right? There's follow two months later and because the the dust decision and these particular person increased the the right, the edge of either cessation. We, they jn association to give us dominion of the for the were there either decided to getting out from the and we never received the meaning of that that awesome. We also have main badgen writer even leader during fourth leader working and when they have problem. So any any case CD prizes of any. Any kind the contractors and be contacted even before when they had a vision cessation. So maybe before we see that. Dutch deduction debate in Massachusetts decided to leave the, we should know a little bit more behind their decision. I mean, finally, Laura, the other thing that David Miller says, I don't know if this is true or not, but he he says that he thinks the CPA writers fund is, is is not in good health. I mean is that is true that the rumor that you know the funds are are not in great health or is incorrect. Shame. I, I wonder how that it can. No, these kind of things. He never clean to other meetings. He never participated. As I said time, we saw him was in January two thousand seventeen. And once again toward that, they was in April two thousand sixteen, so we only got it twice. You will too busy with his personal business and have the time to call but decide that the funded has a problem. Yes, that the funds percents that you're gonna is there shoot. From the prizemoney to phones of these rider. Sunday hasn't been enough to pay all the requested from the riders, Wendy Sheesh, their careers. There have been more either in the last tears asking for this phone and we depend too was put in place. The origin doesn't. I mean it doesn't allow a dismal into to pay effectively older either. I mean, the money in sixty seven key riders us are key for the punk percent that befriend the can count on would not be enough to pay all the requests. But first of all, these was something that came out owning the last year because at the beginning it was in the many writers are keep for the fund. Second, we only speak all the riders. New riders had ever complained because lead in received the money and we use for the for this point Damani of city. So basically we will. We make sure that the riders had what the. Even if depan the money to support or request. One of the reason why also the had to borrow some money to the is because many are denies you're in the next year. The in time gives five percents to fund. We try, we recalled the retry the in many ways to make his organizer spe some of them, China too key. I mean, countries that don't respond, don't take action when you constant to do. So we yes, to be many times to the UCI to help us in connecting all the credits of the fund toward is organizers and the work place. But the UCI tell it was the neighbor to take what we want. Two from your gone either. So. All the story that turned is managed in not transparent way or the fund. We have doing things with the money of the fund is abortion, and there is another point we have worked very hard on the new Persian money management, the price money management. He's been that will take place since two thousand nineteen is important, not only for the money, but most of the payment of the of the fund. Finally, with these digital junk firm and would be system, would your Nuys, the will also the five percent to the tradition fund to medically without Belay and in terms of intoi. I can put gust supported by science books kissed goodbye to stomach problems with the welts fast, truly isotopic gel science boot. Go energy isotopic before you hit the wool hit back flight instance, both feud by science science sport for their support of the cycling podcast. Usually at this point we give the twenty five percent discount cooled off the rest of this month. They're offering an even bigger. This kind celebrate the various successes of science and sport athletes from gathering Thomas the third affronts to them PT's world record. So for the rest of the month, you can get up to fifty percent off loss of scientists products and also get extra five with the cooled champions. That's the website science and sport dot come during the wealth that we run a competition to win some rough and science and sports wag, and we have our winters, the winner of the Rafeh. Good is Jacqueline young. NNcholas vincit is our science and sport winner. Please Email contact Atma cycling podcast dot com. If you are Jackson young or nNcholas vincit and we can arrange to send you your prizes. And welcome to the tool. Britain. Dari sack me Don. Don gonna be. It's all going to be the next month about thus. Fussy, my preparations to aggression and then discussing hockey's during the race trying to keep it. But Dr guys on the ups, the downs after Nelson between. Porridge, I'll be in school. And get ready for most? Probably going to be my lost. Towns. We out from the starts person seven days to guys who saw in college. And. Yeah. Demento mornings, Jonas. The news team folding and. T's continuing. So. Of job. Of tour person. Well, off this year finishes, and. Since. Often there, I guess now and going from. Looking tour and this. Show the wash. Jersey fresh. Contracts who already selling to. Yeah. In the join. On the table. So. Brace has. Completely different made into me now. No, he's lost John saloons behind. So, yeah. Now I've got a rice says, if Milosevic and. Malala shop windows. Keep myself in this ball. So. Things get my head around this morning. Just drop a coffee. They're talking about this week. What are you looking forward to most about this week and how do you hang gonna? Polite, manages the boys an expected coming into this week because we say we season, we'll be done Las wait. It's nice to finish at such stage with everyone chance to look at all the stages yet just gonna take it day by day because they'll think each day like a one day rice stage one goats, nice climb, seven k. to go thing. So, yeah, I think foams votes. It's not on c- jerseys to pick-up also. Yeah. And the culture is well, it's. How to get the singer. Right. Here we all the day before modern Larry's great adventure. The way he's happens. I quickly. Is called a Matt's here, just been down through generic sports. Light of by packing by the by Noah, no Walter under literally Paulette LA, LA myself out like a Christmas tree, just bidding genius place. Things think I'll be all right. Lucky dogs, massive, say good on it, but just saw if it's the bike and since about six years old. So last that the big mom, Jimmy, shea, fine. Mullet how you doing Jimmy, what's the crack? I thanks just spent loss. Waken bet and Belgium during a few one day Rice's and a kinase, which is with the boys and. Go to best stayed in the legs, not knowing what was coming up this, right? I'll brawl good in the camp Jimmy. Yeah, definitely until ice. Good. Yeah. A, we will expect to see someday up through this week that's plan. Flow charts trough on on get run, get round as usual politics. Connor about five minutes ago has. I realized I was getting a big grumpy. I guess part this whole Turney sorta real-life. Darius alad time. Every time you pulls out his phone south photo. I'm kinda like, crap. Let's I actually haven't talked on this yet. You got to the, I hear that. I'm learning based improving, and I'm sorry. Thirteen hours. Off Everton bids, negative all while I was tough. Wait for that. Mood saying the other day on rod, we feel like fresher. Than we did when we left, it's not just because of how much we had in. How have you. It's amazing how hard you can train when you're having fun. Yeah. Today decided to myself. Connors, emptied himself, literally. But we're having fun enjoying it. So yeah, it's been an awesome time and we're both solely now. It's awesome. On the side. Sit really enjoy screens and allies promised them ice cream. Tron joke, no, who were done? I assume that what the hell I do now. Maybe we can be Altemus. A sample from the two special episodes releasing this week for friends of cycling pug cast sign up as friend. The cycling podcast come to Britain diary came earlier this week and Connor and Larry's. Noga tour diary is imminent. As I said earlier, it's a bumper episode foof humor and quite poignant and places as well and also an epic about an hour, unfortunate, five minutes, but then it was an epoch, right. And speaking of expert writes a couple of months ago Lionel that long bite rides, longish bite right with Ned bolting for something that's coming up on the clean podcast in the autumn slosh winter. But while they were riding their bikes line last night about his one month show through the net which is about to start, it kicks off on September, the twenty eighth in Southampton an includes twenty two nights all around the country, including I was surprised to see our breath. So here we are in the Cambridge south while Cambridge classic your deep in preparation for the tool to Nate. I what I should be shouldn't be at writing. This should be slaving over, you know, trying to invent gags over in a bit. So the third year of one man, comedy, theatrical, extravaganza, national tool thing, a better ROY. A right, some totally new material and strip it down to what people really care about, which I think is the tool to France. So I'm waiting to see whether happens on this too because something's going to happen, isn't it? A bus is gonna. Crash is an inflatable arch collapse on something. You know something dolph to happen almost every day because that's the federation of the rush. And then I'm going to try and recreate on stage. So and with digression divisions in little dips into history and law fund rose, just closing in the background of the is ideas, have a Royal love, but also relive the action July kind of off the trickle style, but that's it. Yeah, when's the to start and we'll be riding between any of the venues? Yes, some of them are close enough. Some aren't the tool gets underway probably while you're listening to this pocus September guess on the way, and then all of Tober November move on the road. Conveniently Twenty-one venues as the twenty one stages of the to the night. And how many days enough. Just about all along such a wonderful nerve wrecking. We'd love doing that. But yeah, well, we did something similar but on a much smaller scale with the cycling poke Causton I remember talking to around the time that we would doing that tool. I had this vision because the events in evening and we had to travel. That'd be so much time, and I'm gonna be inventing time to do other things, but you just gone because everything is fixated on that evening's event what you can say in the kind of the nerves of appearing in front of a crowd, you must still even though you've done a couple of years of the still get those nerves streaming. Every time look, woman shows of me really wonderful stage manager on whom I relied busy doing stuff up on the stage to the thesis at nations. And once in the house says, I'm getting see now. See now wants houses open on, looked into my my changing green room and I can't come out really. So I'm just on me own. Obviously, we my strategy Ghent rider, which features all sorts of senior writer, but on Walter. And an on just listening to they have these little funny little tunnel speakers in green rooms through which they can make announcements to you. But basically, you hear the ambient noise of the face of filling up. So you kind of get this hubbub of anticipation, and it's all you've got, you've got to go out and do it, and then till you kind of done the first gagging, people like it and that kind of comedy, relax. And then it's then it's just love that hubbub that making the butterflies just a memory of every night. Never quite knowing whether it's going to be okay. And it's a bit like cycling that sent some. You have good days and bad days some days it just flows in other noise knock some much talking about butterflies in your stomach, complaining. Go to the Tom, do millions kicking off house. I think he might be the sausage in bay combat just sausage and bacon. Bap revenge. Yeah, what needs to go and do it to moolah anyway tickets. Oh yeah. WWW dot net dole thing dot com. That's all for this week, a big. Thank you to fronts what Tommaso for his report from Canada, and also to the three producers who've worked on this week show Adam by will Jones and Tom Walley or less Shinui. And I are of the Innsbruck for the world championships next week and we will return with regular ash at.

CPA writer Montreal Canada president Europe Innsbruck Rafeh Michael David Miller CPA France founder and president GARRETT Britain Nathan Haas Simon Quebec Quebec Conor Larry
CORRUPTION 5 - The King of Cabbagetown

Commons

27:06 min | 2 years ago

CORRUPTION 5 - The King of Cabbagetown

"This episode is brought to you in part by sock. Love the holiday season is finally here and saw club is delivering the perfect gift experience. Remind your loved ones that you care each month with quality American made socks the socks are sent straight to their door, featuring different designs and personal note every month that could be customized before each shipment. So go to soccer club dot com slash candidate land and get fifteen percent off using discount code candidate land at checkout. This upset of Commons is also brought to you in part by indie. The Canadian made indie mattress is made with unique open air cell phone, which provides a perfect balance of comfort and support pressure relief and motion transfer resistance. That means if you're the kind of person who rolls around in their sleep, your partner won't feel thing. So for fifty dollars off any Andy mattress good, indeed dot CA and use the promo code Commons. When Maryland Morrison, the former mayor of Caliban was fighting a political battle against development, her friend. Nancy Cole got a call. It was from Angelos, but Coppola's who had once been the head of waste management at the city of Toronto. And she said Maryland, there is a excuse me, a fellow that I know that I used to work with years ago. He stoned me and this Spiro Papa Thanatos. Yeah. Yeah. It's a mouthful he wants to meet with you that name Maryland. Couldn't quite get is Spiro Papa Thanasak us. And I said, well he can phone the office. I'll meet with anyone. No. He doesn't wanna meet with you at the office. He wants to meet one on one somewhere. I said, no, I won't do that. I have an office. And that's where all my meetings take place by this point a man associated with organized crime had tried to blackmail. Her husband. He'd been attacked at his home. And a corrupt CRA official had tried to frame her for bribery. It's a wild story, and you can hear it all on her last episode. So when it became clear that the man Spiro wanted to talk about development Morrison's guard went up. They had already told her that it was about getting me to change my mind, if that they offered her money if she could get me to change my mind. So we knew what I mean. I knew what it was. And I said, no I said if he wants to meet with me phone the off it's make an appointment. Come and see me. So we never met. Never meant. But he shirts that you're tried hard Morrison's friend ended up talking to both Angeles Coppola's and Spiro over the phone. He says repeatedly, according to her interview police that he can quote, make this all go away all the problems of the mayor's having and then he likes to get deals done. And that he's quote, not with those people and he's very vague. He will never specified who he's talking about. Exactly. But says he's he's a quote, a friend of the family with a dentist who the family is. And that's Greg MacArthur. So my name's Greg MacArthur, and I'm a member of the global males investigative team the meeting never happened. But we'll Morrison didn't know was that things were happening behind the scenes that man Spiro Papa Thanasak is was getting to know Glen Murray, who's a rising star within the Ontario. Liberal government Spiro was well known in Murray's ward as the founder and executive director of the cabbage town youth center and after Moore. He was elected to the on -tario legislature. He in spirit would often meet up and talk into Cording to the globe and mail at one of those meetings was a senior executive from Seoul, mar development. The firm that Morrison had been publicly feuding with. After Murray became the minister of infrastructure, he instantly took an interest in the politics of Caliban and he summoned Morrison to Queens Park owing to Hector her and according to Morrison privately threaten her. But who was this man Spiro Papa Thanasak is who so desperately wanted to meet with Morrison? Greg MacArthur, the globe in mail reporter? I heard about Spiro in twenty fourteen and this really weird set of circumstances took place that I haven't encountered before two of his colleagues, Karen Howlett and carolina'll funds. Oh, we're we're gonna story about the Toronto district school board at the time the border become completely dysfunctional. But one day the two reporters were talking to a source, and they were told that they were just looking in the wrong direction as cams couldn't sort of asking her surface level questions person who was in a position to know said the person who really want to look at is Spiro Pappa Thanasak is he's the big fish here. And that was his words were big fish, the reporters were confused never heard of them before how can someone who had never heard of. And who's not a public office holder be like the key influence there at the at the biggest school board in the country and around the same time. Greg was working on a completely different. Story about a company owned by the Montreal mafia getting a contract with the city of Toronto. And that same name came up this person indicated that Spiro was involved in that. And he that he was someone who knew a lot of people, and and including peop-, the some of them off ios that ended up being part of that contract. And I was kind of a little bit stunned because I I had never heard of this person. And I was the person who was telling me Greg mentioned this to another colleague Patrick white who'd been researching organized crime with oh prompting this person who was interviewing a source mentioned that Spiro with someone who was connected in that community and knew a lot of people that makes four reporters working on three completely separate stories all coming across the same name Spiro Papa Thanasak us. So at that point that like, we realize okay. There's something going on. It's amazing that we don't know. Who this person is? So they started to look into it. What followed was an investigation that took four years and over a hundred interviews the events span, two decades and involved multiple levels of government, and all of it was dedicated to answering one question who is Spiro Papa Thanasak is. So who is bureau Papa Thanasak us. He's the founder and longtime executive director of youth center. Downtown toronto. He's an advocate for the poor. He's well connected to some of the most powerful people in on terrier. He's someone who brags about his ability to win hundred million dollar contracts for his associates. He's a man who orchestrated the takeover of a hospital who openly brags about his connections to the mafia who was the most powerful person at a school board despite not being employed by it. He's the king of cabbage town and a former owner of one of the oldest soccer teams in Greece. He's an underground lobbyist connector fixer. He's been called a visionary. And a transformative person by Canada's foreign minister, he's a man who had Darius points appears to have wielded control public institutions from behind the scenes, so who is Spiro Papa Thanasak as he may vary. Well, be the key to understanding how things are done in Ontario. I'm Archie man and from Canada land. This is Commons. This episode of comments is brought to you in part by the great courses. Plus, the great courses. Plus is the perfect way to understand the world around us get unlimited access to informative engaging lectures on so many topics like history and science politics languages for talk. Graffiti all presented by award winning experts. Now, there are thousands of lectures to choose from a new courses are added all the time. Enjoy the moment. Your schedule watcher listen from anywhere with the great courses plus app, I recommend checking at the course an economics history of the world since fourteen hundred it gives you great insight into the pivotal. And sometimes they're prising ways economics shaped world history. And how these changes apply to our world today. It'll cover guilds and monopolies the colonization of the Americas. Steam power coal power, the gold standard the Russian revolution. Just about everything. You can think of you're gonna love the great courses. Plus, and for a limited time, you can get a full month. For free to get this. Great offer. Just go to the great courses, plus dot com slash Commons. Start your free month trial today, only at the great courses, plus dot com slash Commons. This episode of comments is also brought to you in part by Indy. India's changing the way Canadian sleep and their mission is simple to provide Canadians from coast to coast with the best possible sleep. Unlike traditional memory foam, Indies foam is not temperature sensitive. So this means you can expect consistent foam firmness year round through every Canadian season. Plus Andy foam releases body heat faster than conventional foam ensuring a cool and comfortable sleep all night. Now, I'm the kind of guy who's constantly complaining about the weather and the temperature when it's hot out. I just wanted to be cool. And when it's cold I'm dreaming of the heat. But even for me, the Indy mattress feels like it's the perfect temperature. Whatever the weather if you don't like it, you can return it within one hundred days, no questions asked so head. Over to Indy dot CA and use the promo code Commons to get fifty dollars off any indie mattress, that's indeed dot CA and use the promo code Commons. Twenty years ago. The doctors at Toronto east General Hospital had a problem. There was a clash of of personalities between the doctors, and and the CEO and the doctors organized, and they decided that they they wanna do essentially replace the board of the hospital. The details of why they're angry don't really matter today. What does matter is that the doctors decided to bring in reinforcements they hired a lawyer who noticed that the hospital bylaws had a loophole. Anyone who paid a twenty five dollar fee could become a member of the hospital and vote in elections for the board. If they could get enough people they could get rid of the board in a new board could get rid of the CEO. The doctors were introduced to people who could put this plan into action. The first was Tom Jackovic along time. Toronto city councillor and the second was Spiro Papa Thatta sack. Office. The doctors knew who Jackovic was Spiro was a different story on paper. Spear was simply the executive director of a youth center. What could you possibly do for them? So by the time, the hospitals annual general meeting came around over a thousand new people had signed up to the members it rolled around and sure enough busloads of people newly minted members of Tronto. He's General Hospital showed up many of them holding sheet of paper telling them who they respond to vote for. The board had never seen anything like it. So many people showed up that the meeting venue had to be changed. And the strategy was successful. A new board was elected in on that board. We're personal friends of Spiro as well as brother, many of them didn't have the kind of experience associated with running in a central institution like a hospital, but they got their way the old CEO is turfed and Janet Davidson an experienced administrator got the job shortly after that fateful board meeting Spiro was hired to be the hospital's new director of community relations and Jakobsen left city hall to be the hospitals. Vice president of business development a position that hadn't existed before even Davidson, the new CEO found the entire situation to be strange immediately like she's very suspicious of like the political machinations at play here and very suspicious of Jackovic various Business Bureau in terms of. Why do they even have jobs here? And what what value are they bringing to the hospital? She soon got an inkling of what was going on the plan appeared to be for Jackovic to eventually become the hospital CEO so that he could relaunch his political career and the board started to act strange. Well, Davidson was on a work trip to Switzerland. She got a phone call. The board was holding an emergency meeting to try to give themselves a power to approve or disapprove of any personnel changes. It looked like a preemptive attempt to save Jack big and spiritus jobs. So she flies back in advance of this emergency meeting with this is going to be debated and states were case about why this is improper it was a fight. She won in Ontario's. Provincial government started to hear that something was going on at the hospital. They commissioned a report to look into governance at the Toronto east General Hospital. The report didn't name any name. Names. But here's what it found. There was a local political machine behind the there'd been a deliberate effort by people external to the process to manipulate the boards elections in many of the board. Members didn't understand the role or responsibilities. In fact, they weren't even the ones in control. Instead, a staff member in the organization was openly and freely admitting that he controls the board that man was Spiro Papa Thanasak shortly after the report he resigned and the hospital was taken over by the province. The full ordeal was covered heavily by the media. But the name Spiro Papa Thanasak us never once came up. At the same time the drama at Toronto east General Hospital was going on a very different kind of controversy was unfolding Toronto city hall, a company called Elim g media had proposal. They wanted to place garbage bins on street corners around the city, and they would do this for free in exchange for the right to place ads on the bins and retain the revenue from the advertisement. The debate quickly became ideological, but privatizing public space versus cost saving measures in the end it past I as a pilot project, and and then as a full-blown contract, according to the globe in mail while he was working at Toronto east General Hospital Spiro Papa famous Akkas let some people in on a little secret. He was involved in that controversial project, in fact. Spiro had been lobbying city councillors to approve the deal with poem g media. He also said that the real owners of the company where the Montreal mafia. And sure enough in two thousand and three Montreal police officer pulled over a Jeep Grand Cherokee that was registered to own g media. In the driver's seat. Was none other than veto resute? Oh, the leader of candidates is Cillian, mafia and probably the most famous organized crime figure in the country. The resume does of Montreal could have been cast by Hollywood, Vida Zuko is the boss. Let's do. He's the John Gotti of Montreal. He's flashy guy. Proud of his ability resute. Oh, who's now deceased denied any involvement with own g media? He claimed that he had simply borrowed the car from a friend. But the story didn't look good for Toronto or other cities at signed contracts with the company it was years later that the truth would finally emerge because later the police would learn that through wiretap evidence, and eventually the resume would admit for tax purposes that yes, vetoes family members were the shareholders of OMG along with the CEO among the major shareholders of own g media, we're veto resume does wife and his children. Speros connections to the deal went further than just lobbying city councillors, the bureaucrat within the city who was overseeing that contract was a very close friend Speros and his name is Angeles accomplice. That's the same Angelos, but Coppola's who'd go on to try and set up a meeting between the mayor of Caliban and Spiro in two thousand three Toronto city councillor named David Miller announced he was going to run for mayor Miller had a reputation as an anti corruption campaigner. But soon after he announced he would run he got a phone call. It was Angelos Coppola's. And because congratulated him and said like, you know, I look forward to working with you, and you become there and Ellen by the way, if you want to discount on any election ads on MG Benz, let me know make it happen. Miller was shocked obvious that this was that was not kosher behavior for a civil servant. In the Miller's words to be acting as a salesman for a contractor for vendor. End indicate that you could get a discount Miller who went on to become mayor reported the phone call to Coppola's superior at the city in two thousand and five he left his position, but it would be far from the last time that Spiro and would work together. The Toronto district school board is the behemoth people don't realize the school board is kind of an afterthought in the hierarchy of government institutions, but is like in many ways own sovereign state. In fact, the tedious be has a bigger budget that the entire city of Ottawa. There is a lot of money at stake. Into few years ago that massive institution wasn't complete chaos mysterious payments, hidden contracts, and accusations of harassment. This is the drama unfolding tonight. At the Toronto district school board. It's an organization that summer now describing as a snake pit. Let's bring Dave Trafford investigating it. And navigating through this Toronto life magazine called it a nasty bizarro contemptible. Gob smacking Lee screwed up soap opera in once again. At the center of the action was Spiro Papa Thanasak us and again on paper. He should've had nothing to do with it. Spiro had actually once been a school board trustee in the nineteen nineties. It was the only time he'd held elected office. But now, he was exerting his influence, unofficially. First of all a lot of the individuals who we've learned about throat the whole story suddenly end up with jobs at school board. Angels Coppola's the former head of waste management for the city of Toronto. And the man who had tried to set up a meeting between Spiro and the Caliban mayor was hired as the chief facilities officer. It was a job. He told the globe and mail. He got with some help from Spiro. In some of the former members of the Toronto east hospital board also ended up in high level positions. Trustees would sometimes even hold events in a bar Spiro co-owned and some of the people associated with Spiro began to get contracts with the T DSP the cabbage town youth center, which Spiro was still the head of received two point eight million dollars through a program called focus on youth. This could have been a total coincidence. But the man who was running the program had been one of the board members of the hospital that Spiro had helped elect, and he also says that he is a close friend of Speros. Or take the example of the solar panels. The Toronto district school board was planning on making the largest solar procurement ever in Canada. And they wanted to take advantage of the green energy act, and they had this problem that all of the roofs across the board were really rough shape and they needed to replace them. And they didn't have a lot of money. So the plan was to contract a company solar company the become in fix the ruse, and then put solar panels on the roof. They would pay the board by giving them new room. And then they would have the right to sell the energy back to the grid generated by the panels on the team that was awarded the contract Angeles Coppola's decision came down to two companies normally they negotiate with both. But at a meeting Coppola's argued that the board should only negotiate with the smaller company going against the recommendations from a report, the other company ended up being disqualified for a conflict of interest that didn't actually exist. And now the details here get a bit tricky. But with the globe in mail, uncovered is that companies associated with people connected to Spiro through the cabbage town youth center, ended up profiting from the deal. All of these events the hospital takeover, the mob affiliated contract the fighting Caliban and the chaos at the school board. We're heavily covered by the press. But in all of that reporting Speros name never comes. That's despite the fact that Spiro openly talks about the power he holds, I don't know if it's ego or what? But he he's not shy about about letting people know that he's influential in twenty sixteen Spiro to court dispute with a former business partner, and he testified under oath that. He has the ability to influence public sector contracts in Ontario. He stated that he had single-handedly help. People win troubling infrastructure contracts were hundreds of millions of dollars. Now, we tried to contact Spiro Papa Thanasak for this story than -cluded calling three cellphones. We're so the number. You have reached is not in service number. You have called not assigned. We contacted the youth center. She said he doesn't work there anymore pro few years. Oh, yeah. Okay. Bye-bye, and we knocked on a door that had been listed as an address to Speros years ago. But we were unable to reach him. The globe and mail published. Their massive investigation into Spiro Papa Thanasak is in the last few days of the provincial election. The p tried to make a stink about it. But the Progressive Conservatives who went onto win didn't comment on it. Despite painting the previous government has corrupt. No, follow ups by other news organizations. There haven't been called for public inquiries or commissions. When I first read the story, I was blown over it made me completely rethink what I thought I knew about politics in a lot of ways it was the inspiration for this whole series on corruption were doing when Canadians think of corruption we often think about Quebec, but I really do wonder terro opened an inquiry into corruption. Quebec did what would we find out? I've also this. I I've never believed for a second that the problem of corruption stops at the on -tario Quebec border. Like that is like, you know, ludicrous for Greg MacArthur. Just getting the facts out there with the story has battered. It was amazing. Even though I've I've been a journalist now for. Fifteen years that you could find out that there are people out there who have no official positions within the government agency that are able to do whatever they want or or appear to be able to do whatever they want. I always took it for granted that the person that you that council that you elected or that person who was appointed as executive director of that institution that they would be the ones in charters like just accept that. They're the ones, but there could be someone else out there who hasn't has no affiliation on paper. And there's no public accountability for that person can actually pull strings I mean that that to me it was remarkable. And that's and that's why we spent the time we did on the peace and went to the length. We did to report it. Today. Spear Papa Thanasak is no longer runs the cabbage down youth center for a while. He was often in Greece where he was the owner of Iraq Lous FC one of the oldest soccer clubs in the country. And he became the owner of the club in twenty four teen. He was asked by Greek reporters what he did for a living in Canada. My mother says she doesn't know what I do. He told them. That's your episode of comments for this week. The story was originally reported in the globe and mail by Greg MacArthur. Karen Howlett and Adrian Moro. It was cold connected and variety a link to that story on our website Hannity, show dot com. And if you wanna get in touch with us, you can tweet us at candle and Commons. That's C. M S Email me are she had Canada-led show dot com. This episode was produced by Kevin Sexton me with additional production by t k mature. And Jordan Cornish are managing editor is Kevin Sexton. Inter music is by Nathan burly few like what we do. Please help us make this show. You can support us and get ad free podcasts going to patriot dot com slash candidate.

Spiro Spiro Pappa Thanasak Spiro Papa Thanasak Spiro Papa Toronto Toronto district school board Angeles Coppola Greg MacArthur Canada Toronto east General Hospital Spiro Papa Thatta Ontario soccer toronto CEO Montreal Morrison Spiro Caliban executive director
Suburbs

The Gravy Train

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Suburbs

"Respect the taxpayers again and yes ladies and gentlemen we I'm from a focus group because everyone gravy train was counselors are spending too much money on coffees and Cook Visa Munches and baseball game tick in the polls for a few months he was punchline. The mayor was charged with being way too exciting champion of Torontonians he was an embarrassment yes I have some mm-hmm to an almost identical chunk of the same city learned about that I take my marching orders from the tax payers no when they jump very that are always love you reason heart with my mother to believe me after you've been in the problem and all of those things he should have been an example that democracy was changed the politics report he blazed the trail about down with the elites I'm I remember 'cause I worked in newspapers for fifteen years I was in a lot of newsrooms that didn't happen this election was shockingly quick surprise but it felt shocking people in the newsroom gasped win by the time he was elected rob had spent a decade on City Council never leave this city they had nothing but disdain for him so they so far that he has one this rates I certainly didn't see the rob Ford thing coming might be familiar with doesn't start on election night in twenty ten and of course it doesn't about this story because as insane as the story of Rob Ford might seem at times really matters so how did a man like Rob Ford End Toronto and Doug Holiday was about to run for mayor and he had a problem so I just I just got my glasses might phone her little jacket in case raids sixty two senior ran the business rob and his brother Doug worked there Corp last election signs some of them two by force them you'll realize this is the perfect origin story for everything that comes afterwards they could print a label that did it and actually he was able to print in a in a third color he six because Doug holiday walked in with a problem at the right time from words had bit the bug on politics I I heard that Doug Ford wanted to run provincially Doug Ford senior that was I think the first taste of politics for the fords and probably still in his twenties but anxious to try it himself an investigative reporter and he spent a lot of time digging into the tobacco history of herbs who were just kind of aimless drifting around looking for a spark it was a time when I think parents were like less on their kids but through a toabacco parking lots and plazas and all the really Lee slimmer and blonder and happier version of the red faced there's this one story that I've heard from someone who was present it was totally Egypt and the parents of a rich view student happened to be having a big party for it's football jacket extremely it was somewhat exclusive was supposed to be just for rich shoving and fighting the father like down the street that story really reminded me of his that was very telling that stubbornness the refusal to accept a rob decided to run for Toronto Council in Nineteen ninety-seven and he lost area for the province and who held the family purse-strings the powered his campaign sat down next to a whole bunch of newly elected left leaning our story really begins happily invited us over remember the first time you got to know him us going for lunch alone getting to know you kind of moments Gary Aus even by these slightly fake standards of a local politician he looks hi who will offer you home grown eggs from the chicken coop he keeps in his backyard way he was privately or a loan was very different than when he was can't speech what does that speech sound like wasting every city department is wasteful every so often talk about the message at the heart of his brand so the Free Casa Loma the free conservation the three TC pass Tom Minimum Savings of twenty to thirty million dollars tax payers money this in the infamous slogan would come was now also a counselor and Toronto and so he knew from back in a Toga what rob thinks he did announce was he was going to follow my lead and he was going to try to do some of me he simply paid for everything which I didn't think was the way to do it. You couldn't have bought enough advertising to ever accomplish what was accomplished because he spent in paper to bubble gum if they want to admit it but those expenses go on the public pocket you could then go through those records and take some pretty embarrassing answers and some of the waste that was going on some of it made interesting reading and some of the papers everyone used their expense budget and nobody weaponized it it was in the budget the First Time Matt Rob Ford I was with after I was elected in two thousand and three and rob should have been on Hertie she was a fiscal conservative she knocked off a longtime to invest in expensive transit projects and thousands of new affordable housing losing with filth so Miller was an easy target for a team rob was not really part of the opposition we had actually formed an opposition Zuma's as opposed to opposing David Miller recommending cuts to the watering we were just not paying attention to and he is to you know say my father would always tell obviously he had added tallied up my toxic expenses and he here's it was the sum total of all the taxes I'd taken in the year that they had added up and put act I didn't take a cab on new years so I did talk to his office and they did Committee meetings he believed in direct customer service so he gave out his phone I was brought up my dad's business and he said there's two rules and axiom approach to politics when they call me there's no such thing as I'm busy Josh drive around and meet voters one on one and like I said not then you know this is the meth they will conjure up there's a lot going on in his community so he had time to be visiting the city in everyone else's community the council be present at his meeting that he called for a community concern any concern for whether I actually could fit that into my schedule and then left the impression with a and her position was at the windows were not in accordance with the building code oh she called Rodford the weird magic of or that nothing really could be done and that was it what was it was only rob who could tell her but nothing else could be whereas if I said it can't be fixed and they would call that's the tell it like it is the famous thing about rob is that someone would phone them up and that's Gord perks he was and still is the counselor for a Western Toronto our mental activist as you may imagine from that introduction he was ideologically what rob would do is say you are right the system is Dan this is something that only those of us who were here in the building no he mm-hmm fixes to their problems he was profoundly lazy it wasn't just robs misunderstanding of government that bothered them there was another deeply racist sexist homophobic comments were frequently offensive and inflammatory and his words spence submission of an Italian counselor named Giorgio Mammal Lady in and it's yet another racist comments towards Italians in this place came and I and I would like to apologize to call I'm not a racist I did not say that especially for a counselor in a city like Toronto even fifteen years ago Toronto somehow it's very preventable if you're not doing needles and you're not gay you will in half an hour longer if I wanted to those oriented people work that is owning up to it because part of rob was not was being unwilling you know in fact just a an ordinary guy stating the facts not-i'm we're all comments that rob made publicly but perks who worked on council with in all of his interactions with women and the way he spoke to basically anytime that one of his sexist diatribes but we'll get to that story later for enroll that's just you know he was the man of the people is the persona rob adopted really did anything tangible except provoke condemnation it was a little mini scandal here's a good example he was kicked out of a rob is the man who the fuck he was many turned to the man's wife and said except it was later revealed that he'd been handing out his business cards to everyone sitting nearby there were a lot of apologies and eventually became obvious that his wife Renata and two young children had some serious issues after shocking allegations by his wife that led to criminal charges and as a result of consultation with the police he left the family home they stood by him they really liked rob he was a man of the it was very very serious offenses anytime you're dealing with the domestic situation one of the liberty and they really are no business of any of us I think the allegations against him are to conclusions too quickly that's my personal opinion and I think it will play out in the courts her into the counselors home life and rob went back to building his brand as a asked him this is one of those things that I mentioned at the beginning that might have seemed insane from can explain why some of the worst stuff to come out of ROB's mouth times he made sense if if you really listen to what he had to say the thing with rob from a common sense standpoint what needed to be done to manage the affairs of MM for other things like reading the agenda's been following the detail of board and it's because my number came up and his system somehow me and I saw yesterday you know like he but rob Ford's brand that inspired so many people it's why they the plainspoken regular guy the guy who had come on over to help politics and the way it works if you care about the bigger picture or Oh emotionally to rob Ford is selling because it must seem obvious absolutely none of his time fixing the things that can be fixed how frequently properties all the hard thorny problems that actually makes cities work rob tell people how great they were and that's what people liked it's not that he solved any of their the guy who tells you what you WanNa here's your friend and you WanNa have your friend in the mayor's I'm not joking the question of whether rob was an idiot Doug holiday is on one side and Gord perks is on the other two thousand and nine Rob Ford had pissed off basically all does he called them back and gone to see them his offensive comments and personal scandals made for great headlines He had been called a racist and he had been mostly absent and the actual day to day operations of the council were great so naturally when the calendar turned to twenty ten thought that this gentleman would be the mayor of the city of Toronto

Cook Visa Munches fifteen years thirty million dollars
Sunday, May 5, 2019

60 Minutes

45:47 min | 1 year ago

Sunday, May 5, 2019

"Have you always wanted to speak a new language tribal? Whether it's for travel work or just for fun. Babbel's ten to fifteen minute lessons can get you. Speaking confidently, and you new language choose from Spanish, French German and more you'll learn through real life dialogue, speech, recognition and interactive trainers. And Babbel's spaced repetition method actually makes you remember what you've learned. Try babble for free by texting minute to forty eight forty eight forty eight text minute to forty eight forty eight forty eight to try Babbo for free. More than a quarter of cities and counties across America say they have fended off an attack on their essential, computer networks, hospitals city halls and transit hubs have all been crippled by sophisticated ransomware attacks cybercrime has really become a way of life and connected to everything we do and really every crime. We see what point does this ransomware come to our phones. I think it's already on the doorstep for that. This is a story about the cruelest disease. You've never heard of it's called frontal temporal dementia or F T F TD is the number one form of dementia in Americans under the age of sixty has washing my hands, and I looked in the mirror, and I did not recognize my own face didn't recognize yourself. No. I looked in the mirror and looking I remember I kept looking at this woman. Wondering who was she? And now for something completely different. Tanya to God is a popstar who happens to be an Inuit throat singer. Modernizing an agent art form born high above the Arctic circle. You like it. Waited too long. Well, it's not van Morris. And that's for sure. I'm Steve Kroft. I'm Leslie stall. I'm Scott Pelley. I'm interested in Cooper. I'm John Wertheim. I'm Bill Whitaker. Those stories tonight on sixty minutes. Ways. Carpool is not a boss ways. Carpool. It's not a taxi ways. Carpool is not the metro and DC riders ways. Carpool is not a slug line. What is ways carpool ways? Car pool is a new app that lets neighbors co workers and fellow commuters ride together to work and home fast. Drivers say Hello to that express lane and get reimbursed for gas riders getting affordable commute and help. Save the planet and carpoolers get to know their neighbors and co workers a little bit better ways. Carpool is smart. Not only does it match you with people who are going your way it connects you with people who you'd actually want to ride with so you can commute smarter with no headaches people if you use ways ready, you know, it's built by community to give you the best traffic picture in real time. All the time. Ways carpool functions with the same high quality standards inefficiency. Download the ways carpool app today to catch a ride or give a ride to work or on right together with ways carpool. This past week Cleveland's airport began to recover from a computer attack that took down its flight information, baggage displays and it's Email. The FBI says it was another ransomware attack on a sensitive government network, ransomware locks up victims files until ransom is paid more. And more critical public service networks are the targets before Cleveland. The city governments of Newark, Atlanta, and Sarasota were hit and San Francisco's transit authority. The Colorado department of transportation and the port of San Diego today. Twenty six percent of cities and counties say they fend off an attack on their networks every hour, perhaps even worse. Dozens of hospitals have been held hostage across the country. In January twenty eight teen the night shift at Hancock regional hospital watched its computers crash with deepest apologies. The one hundred bed facility in the suburbs. Of indianapolis. Got it CEO Steve long out of bed. We had never been through this before. And it's something that I read in the journals. And I say, oh, those poor folks. I'm glad that's never going to happen to us. But when you come in, and you see that the files on your computer have been renamed in all of the files were renamed either. We apologize for files or were sorry. And there was a moment when I thought, well, maybe they're not so bad. They said they were sorry. But in fact, they had encrypted every file that we had on our computers and on the network. Well, the as we've said still had long told nine one one to divert emergency patients to a hospital twenty miles away. His staff turned to pen and paper. Nothing electron. It could be trusted. This is a ransomware. So this is a virus that has gotten. To the computer system. Would it have the ability to jump to a piece of clinical equipment could have jumped to an IV pump could have jumped to a ventilator we needed a little time just to make sure about that time was a luxury not offered in the ransom demand. Your network has been encrypted if you would like to purchase the decryption keys you have seven days to do. So or your network vials? We'll be permanently deleted. And then it gave us the the amount that we would need to pay to get that back and that came to about fifty five thousand dollars that was the same price demanded of the city of Leeds Alabama three weeks after Hancock hospital near David Miller was surprised his town of twelve thousand would be a target not much to notice in. It's at least not since Charles Barkley graduated from the high school. I didn't know that this Mauer attack was actually a ransomware attack soon as we've found that out that took it to the different level. How do you make? Well, it was. Going to cost us money white the hospital. The city of Leeds was cast back into the age of paper. No, Email, no access to its personnel files or financial systems can all companies and local governments expect to be attacked. I think everyone should expect to be attacked the FBI's might Chris man says cyber-crooks, no governments in hospitals are likely to pay because they can't afford not to until his recent promotion Christmas was in charge of the FBI's cybercrime unit. You're waiting for the day that somebody says we have the nine one one system held hostage in a major city, and we need ten million dollars today. I hope that day never comes. But I think we should prepare for that possibility. Crispin says in twenty seventeen seventeen hundred six cesspool rent somewhere attacks were reported. But he figures that's less than half more. Most businesses. He says would rather pay in admit they were hacked on the wear of one ransomware variant that affected all fifty states that had some thirty million dollars in losses and over six million dollars in ransom payments. I would tell you that the losses are very significant and easily approach one hundred million dollars or more just in the United States that ransomware variant. He's talking about is the one that held handcock hospital hostage. It's cold Samson. After one of its file names experts told Steve long Sam Sam is unbreakable. There was nothing that we could do to unlock those files are only choice was to wipe the system and hope that we had backups or to purchase the decryption keys to pay the rent. Indeed. That is exactly what that means. But Sam Sam had infected the hospitals back-up files, the FBI adv-. Vise long not to pay. But after two days after his staff filled out ten thousand pieces of paper, he paid the ransom. The crooks demanded digital money known as bitcoin ransomware is possible only because bitcoin is so difficult to trace mayor Miller held out two weeks before he paid his bitcoin ranson after a little bargaining at the said to grit my teeth and realized that this was a business decision. And that was the way to do it. So they asked for sixty and you paid eight how did you get there? Well, I agree and finance. Actually, our city inspector in our city clerk, let them know that you're dealing with the very small town here. That's a lot of money to us. And we think we can scrape together eight thousand dollars the thieves were honorable in Leeds at Hancock hospital, and in many cases, the rent some buys decryption keys that actually work crooks need credibility to keep the ransoms flowing. Did you ever find out never who they were or where they were? No. Wouldn't you just love to know? Wouldn't I love to know? Leads may have been hit by one of the many ransomware variations that simply scan the internet blindly looking for vulnerable networks wherever they may be how many targets do they attack at a time. You could conservatively say in the thousands tens of thousands. Tom pace is vice president of blackberry. Silence. A leading security firm. So this isn't a crook sitting in front of a desktop breaking a sweat trying to break into somebody system. This is something they unleash that's automated, and they sit back and drink coffee until they get the results that certainly appears to be rolled out the exception making the coffee may be the hard part pay showed us a website that offers ransomware for rent an attacker can use one of many illicit products here in the website takes a cut. If ransom is paid. And something else. That's interesting here is they actually provide you with basically a chat room where you can ask questions to the people. Who maintain this architecture for you frequently asked questions for criminals, exactly Tom pace logged onto the site and used it to encrypt a network of his own. So all of the files that are on this system. Have now been successfully encrypted. So this took you just slightly over five minutes, and you didn't write a single line of code, correct? Off the shelf off the shelf ready to go organization. He's told us ransoms are typically modest like it handcock hospital or Leeds Alabama fifty thousand or so if you're asking for millions from everybody that's just everybody doesn't have to pay. Right. So finding that sweet spot and sticking to it has worked. Well. And that's why the same ransom was asked of little Leeds, Alabama and great big Atlanta. Correct. The city of Atlanta has experienced ransomware cyber attack three weeks after leads Sam Sam. Mm slip into Atlanta's city hall. Howard shook is a councilman and chair of the finance committee nine one one was up and running. But for a while the police did not have the ability to do computer checks on license plates. And you know cars they were pulling up on and that kind of thing which was a concern. What else crashed the court system went down? Which was a major inconvenience for the thousands of people cycling through minute. Municipal court sim Sam demanded fifty thousand dollars, but Atlanta refused to pay. Instead, the city spent twenty million to recover on its own it took months and seven years police. Dash Cam video was never recovered. Why did you think paying was about idea at first it was just instinctive? I mean, if you being violated out in a why you should rewards somebody for having done that it must goal the hell out of some of your clients. To pay the bad guys. Absolutely. I mean, we have lots of clients who are incredibly angry. I mean, you have to imagine this is from any of them the worst day of their professional career and sometimes their life day made even worse by the occasional high end ransom pace told us one of his clients paid almost a million dollars another paid up after receiving this threat. Would it not be ashamed? We leaked all of your internal data about your clients and customers sounds to us like a large lawsuit waiting to happen. So they're extorting them in two ways. They're extorting them by actually encrypting all the files, and then they're then they're extorting them by threatening to also release the data. Once this transaction is completed and the client gets his files back. How does he know? He's not going to be attacked again. There's no way to really prove that he will not be we try and do a really good job of making sure we reduce all the vulnerabilities and entry points. But there is no guarantee, but they won't come back to the same. The organization that they successfully impacted that we haven't we haven't seen that happen. Very often. That would have happened last year. The Justice department said it unmasked Sam Sam a grand jury indicted to Iranians neither named Sam the FBI says the two Iranian suspects were in it for the money, not as speed, nausea. They collected six million dollars before they went quiet after the indictment. Prosecutors say the suspects are interruption where they can't be extradited the most threatening ransomware tends to come from countries including Russia that the F B. I can't reach is cybercrime becoming to the FBI. What banks were in the nineteen thirties. I think it is cybercrime has really become a way of life and connected to everything we do and really every every crime we see. And I know that by twenty twenty we expect to see fifty billion devices. Worldwide connected to the internet. So the question becomes what point does this ransomware come to our phones, where some crooks has got your phone, send me fifty bucks. I think it's already on the doorstep for that. I think some of those devices that connect to the internet cannot only be compromised, but they can be used to facilitate other attacks under the command and control of bad actors. This can be I have your phone. I have your car. I have your house anything. That's connected to the internet. Absolutely. Where would we be without our moms? I'll tell you where we'd be we'd be nowhere because simply put no mom, no us. So this mother's day. Don't forget the thank the real pros in your life. Mom while you're at it. How about the other moms in your life, like your kids, mom or your nieces or nephews mom, personally, the mothers in my life pros at a lot of things. But being a friend confident in my case winning golf partner pro flowers lets you show your. Choosing from variety of bouquets and unique, vases that suit every mom stop. So pick your flowers, and then simply selected delivery date. You want pro flowers carefully. Packages your flowers delivers them fresh from the farm. I can tell you from personal experience at the flowers are beautiful and express delivery means her flowers stay fresh right now. Get one dozen to sorta roses for nine hundred ninety nine double the roses and get a premium vase for just nine hundred nine more. So visit pro flowers dot com. Click the microphone in the upper right corner and enter my code CBS news. That's pro flowers dot com. Click the microphone code CBS news mother stays may twelfth. So don't wait order like a pro and get this amazing rose deal that thank all the moms in your life. This is a story about the cruelest disease. You have never heard of it's called frontal temporal dementia or f- TD and given the devastating toll. It takes on its victims and their families. It ought to be much better known than it is f- TD is the number one form of dementia in Americans under the age of sixty what causes it is unclear but it attacks the frontal and temporal lobes of the brain, which control personality and speech, and it's always fatal it is not Alzheimer's disease. Which degrades the part of the brain responsible for memory with F TD people either displays such bizarre behavior that their loved ones can hardly recognize them or they lose the ability to recognize themselves. That's what happened to Traci Lind one day few years ago as she was standing in a. A public restroom as washing my hands. And I looked in the mirror and I did not recognize my own face didn't recognize yourself. No. I looked in the mirror, and I kept looking I remember I kept looking at this woman. Wondering who was she this is who she was the very Reverend Traci Lind dean of the episcopal cathedral in Cleveland, Ohio, one of the city's most prominent preachers and civic leaders. She was sixty one years old when both she and her spouse, Emily Ingalls began to notice trouble with things Tracy had always done very well like finding the right word, recognizing congregants and friends faces and of course, her own data. When I said, I'm man I got to go see a doctor when that happened where he where he scared. I scared to death. Emily. What did you think was happening? I thought there's something not right with her brain something. On election day, two thousand sixteen Traci Lind got the diagnosis frontal temporal dementia. She has what's called the speech variant of the disease, which among other things attacks the part of the brain where language lives, sometimes you just define in your on. And then there are other times that the words just don't come out. I mean, even if I know what the word is sometimes I feel like I'm playing bingo. And when I find the word, it's like, I shouted. I feel like an imbecile, you know, apple. Oh, yeah. Apple that's it. And I get all excited. This is acutely painful for Tracy because being powerful effective speaker has always been at the core of her identity. One of the first things you did. Once you got the Steig Noces was to resign from your job as dean at trinity cathedral. What'd you take that action? So quickly. Mainly. It was I knew I was starting to fail. Even though I was faking it pretty well. Since stepping down, Tracy and Emily have traveled around the country and the world speaking and preaching about her TD, or as Tracy puts it telling the story of dementia from the inside out. I was determined to live what I'd been preaching for over thirty years at a comes jewelry. On could face this disease called f TD that I've never heard of before in. I'm going to see what I can do with it. I don't know if you are aware of how unique the situation is that you are in the middle of this decline from dementia, and yet you're so able to articulate what that's like I am wear of that. I think my curiosity is what's getting me through it. Because otherwise, I'm just gonna lay down and and enroll up in a ball, Tracy says she has good days and bad days. Just in our interview there were moments when she was completely in control and moments when she wasn't and I'm doing. Some. I know there's no. Dealin help can you help police? Okay. This is the way this very sad illness presents Dr Bruce Miller may be the world's leading expert on frontal temporal dementia. He runs a lab at the university of California. San Francisco that's doing cutting edge research on the two main forms of if TD the speech variant, the Traci Lind has and a behavioral variant that attacks personality, judgement, and empathy pleasure to see a both again on the day, we visited doctor Miller's clinic he and his team met with F TD patient. Thomas Cox and his wife, Lori at first glance Thomas seems fine. But he's not I've got a f- TD. Okay. And has it affected so far? No. In fact, Lori Cox says that starting a few years ago Thomas lost interest in. Her in their son, and in his work so much that he was fired from his job by now, he's pretty much reduced to looking at photos on his phone. That's begun. Body your dog. I can blame the disease I can say that the disease stole miss my husband when a family sees someone with this illness. They don't recognize them. This is not the person. I married that I love this is not my father, or my mother, you said that f TD attacks people at the very soul of their humanity. This is profound as anything that can happen to a human being at robs us of our various of our humanity of who we are Bruce Miller says because so many cases are first misdiagnosed as mental illness. It takes an average of three years and several expensive brain scans to get a correct diagnosis of f- TD. So whether it's twenty thousand new cases every year, one hundred thousand two hundred thousand we still don't know, but in young people with. Neurodegeneration from temporal dementia. Big one. So if you see someone who is suffering dementia at a younger age various, strong likelihood that it's TD. Dr Miller showed us this composite image of two of the major degenerative brain diseases from temporal dementia shown in blue Alzheimer's disease, shown in red, so very different geography, very different clinical manifestations. What does the blue indicate the blue indicate the is that there's loss of tissue when we see loss of tissue in that brain region. We know people have lost their interest in life their drive, they do less. They care less about other people credit that loss of empathy Miller says can produce dangerous impulsive even criminal behavior. And those with behavioral f- TD are rarely aware that anything has changed. He went from being. Caring doting, father and husband. And it just seemed like he flipped a switch off. And he had no idea that he changed. He had no idea. Amy johnson. And her husband Mark, married in two thousand six settled in the small Minnesota town of Windham and now have four young children three boys under girl three years ago. Amy says Mark suddenly seemed to stop caring about her and the kids that's the first time that I really remember thinking to myself what happened where did you go? Aimee recalls a day when she left Mark in charge of their sons, then three and two only to come home and find the boys playing outside alone by a busy street while Mark sat inside watching TV oblivious on other days he began to display compulsive behavior. She had never seen before he couldn't stop eating. I started locking the food up. He would walk down to the. Mystery storm by more took his credit card peed walked onto the grocery store and steal food. I mean, these changes that you saw did you ask them what's going on? Yeah. When he just said, oh, I don't think anything's different is it it was Mark began making inappropriate remarks to a female co worker at the company where he worked as a manufacturing engineer. He was fired. And has reaction was oh. Well, I guess okay. It's what's for supper tonight. What was your reaction as just devastated I was seven months pregnant at the time with our daughter with your fourth child fourth child. So as this progresses. What's the eventual outcome outcome of this is always death is always death, always death? We have no way of intervening VN in yet. Slow the progression. As f- TD corrodes, the brain it also eventually causes bodily functions to shutdown. That's what leads to death. But Bruce Miller is optimistic pointing to promising research both in his lab and funded by NIH grants to scientists around the country. Suddenly we have interventions and research that are going on that give me great hope when might you expect to break through. I'm hoping in the next five years that we will have a very pow-. Powerful therapies in certain variants of Fronta temporal dementia. That may stop it cold Traci Lind, and Emily English. Have no idea whether any breakthrough will come in time to help them if not Tracy will eventually lose the ability to speak at all. And then the ability to swallow and not be natural swallow part. That's what's really frightening. So I try to live in the present moment, I'm not very good at living in the moment. So I worry a lot about the future. Do you worry about hand care me in any way about taking care of you? Sure what's going to be the hardest part. I think the hardest part is going to be the loss of the relationship. Is Emily told you this before? I don't think so. As you can see caregivers suffer as much as patients for months. Amy Johnson kept market home, even as she mothered four small children and held a fulltime job, but his symptoms got worse and worse when did it become clear to you that you had to put him in a facility? I went to appointment with a psychiatric nurse practitioner. And she said, I think it's time for you to look for a different place. Because now when he thinks of something the part of his brain that tells them not too bad idea doesn't work anymore. Mark johnson. Now lives in a facility about an hour away from home. He's gained nearly one hundred pounds due to compulsive eating even walking into elderly residents rooms and taking their. Amy says his care now costs her nearly seven thousand dollars a month out of pocket out of pocket. He would be devastated to know that that's where his retirement savings are going and that they're not going to family crippling costs are common for families. And it's often tough to find a facility to care for patients. Like, Mark Johnson. The assisted living industry is not set up for six foot three four year olds. Now. How were you very nice to meet you Amy visits Mark as often as she can and invited us to come along one afternoon. He told us he just like to go home. And do you think you need help? No. So do you under you understand why you're here? No. Thank you be okay. At home. Yeah. I think Amy thinks I don't wanna put news from. But I think she thinks this is the best place for you right now. Okay. After another minute. Mark said, all right. See you. And we left him big, HUD. It's clearly painful for Amy to see what f- TD has done to her husband. And to know what it will do. They gave him two to five years to live and two to five years two to five years. So how are you doing? Now. It depends on the day. What? Chances. Are you won't be hearing Tanya to gawks music at your next dinner party or wafting over the speakers at the mall? She is technically a popstar, but not in the same vein as say her fellow Canadians, Drake or arcade, fire both of whom to gawk recently beat out to win the country's most prestigious music prize hailing from none of it a territory above the Arctic circle to goch is an Inuit throat singer. Keeper of an ancient art form that stretches the limits of the human larynx. She is brought this traditional sound screeching onto the modern seen by layering it with elements of punk rock heavy. Metal Electronica Rolling Stone called her music transfix ING, we'd never heard anything quite like it before. And so it is we say now for something completely different. Tanya Gok begins every performance by closing her eyes as she puts it shutting out the visual and plugging into the sound. Her voice flickers. Then builds to a rhythmic panting. Then comes the inevitable moment when the mounting tension on coils and she unleashes a sonic storm. This is not what you were expecting in with throat singing to look or sound light stick with us here. For music. It's improvised. There is no scent plan. New set list often. There are no shoes at five. One two got generates mighty sound especially for dominion of person. She'll be the first to tell you. It's not easy listening. People warning sometimes because I feel like it should be consensual. You shouldn't have to sit there and suffer through it. If you don't like it because it's not for every put people if you don't like it. Hey, L point out the exits like on the airplane. There are four exits. And then I tell them it's okay to leave like, I'm not going to be insulted. Those who stay in their seats or bathed in a mash up of Inuit tradition and contemporary experiments. And as to God told us over lunch before a concert in New York. No, two shows are alike. A good show means what you when it's effortless in the fact that I feel like a fish on the end of a hook. I'm just being reeled in. What's really, I get? I get like, you know, kinda hypnotized by it, and it just becomes its own creature. To make sense of all this sound to understand Tanya to goch in her music. You have to go to the source. So we headed Nord four flights in twenty three hundred miles from New York. We landed on a gravel runway in none of Canada's northernmost in largest territory in central home of the Inuit. Indigenous people of the north Nunavut literally our land in the native indicative language is made up of eight hundred thousand square miles of Canadian Arctic roughly three times the size of Texas the landscape, call to mind, the setting for an extraterrestrial scifi movie. And then there is the lighting it might not look like it. But it's now midnight here inside the perimeter of the Arctic circle in summer months. Go by without a sunset course. That means that in winter months can elapse in total darkness by then it's often so cold that Fahrenheit and celsius converge. It minus forty degrees. Which is why we visited in July. Two Cox touring schedule keeps. Her based in Toronto. But every summer she comes back to the family cabin in her hometown of Cambridge bay populations seventeen hundred. To gawk in her older, brother. Carson took us out on the tundra. More of a lunar seen than a polar one that we did manage to find a patch of ice. We wrote for hours along the shores of the Arctic Ocean to favorite fishing spot. It never gets old you're free. You're living with the land. You're living with the animals. The way of the see the animals they all take turns playing to gawk smu's Indian summer, the rhythm of her life. Here is set by runs of Arctic char fading fast on one darn were they go on. I can't believe we don't have a fish. Because once once you have her shirt chart here. Dictates back if the family cabin to gawks father, enter daughter had more success with knits. Oh, wow. Are you going to try or you don't have to do? Cheers. It's fresh fish. None of it is home to forty thousand Inuit or enough people. They have lived off the land and sea here since migrating east from across the Bering strait a thousand years ago. Throat singing that sound we came all this way to hear can be traced back just as far. Tanya, and her friend, Donna Lyle demonstrated the traditional form. Conceived in an igloo while the men were out hunting. It's really a friendly competition between two women akin to musical staring contests. There's a leader follower. And we have to be able to mimic the sound a split second. After the first person does it. Both partners make short installations and exhibitions that vibrate over the top of their windpipe. Basically trying to mess up the other person. I love that round. Awesome. When you consider the throat singing was all but banned here in recent decades, along with many Inuit traditions in the native language, it was part of the colonial process, children were forbidden from speaking their language or exercising. Their culture in any way whatsoever. And they told us our belief system was wrong. Canada has a long history of mistreating indigenous people in one of the worst chapters from the mid nineteenth century until the mid nineties. The government separated thousands of children from their parents and place them in church run schools as a way to assimilate them Tanya herself went to a residential school five hundred miles from home twenty five years ago. What was that experience? Like, it was a bit leg jail where every single one of our minutes where accounted for, you know. So so we were very tightly controlled it was like a boarding school by the time. I. I went but previous generations had had much much harder. Most of them were sexually abused beaten. Shameful stained in Canadian history. Absolutely horrific. This anger despair. This is what I'm hearing in some of your song. Absolutely. I live with a broken heart thinking about our history for this. We are soaring. The Canadian government apologize ten years ago for its policy of forced assimilation, but the country is still reckoning with generational trauma. To concert service acts of resistance against the Canadian government in also celebrations of Inuit culture in the music has found global appeal. He's on perpetual tour of the world concert hall. Albums earned the kind of critical acclaim that would make most mainstream pop axe. Well. But tha got told us she discovered throat singing quite by accident because the music was taboo for so long her introduction came when she was away of college and feeling homesick to gawk mother born and raised in an igloo found some tape recordings of the traditional sound and mail them to her. What are you hearing on these tapes that resonated with you? I could hear hear the land. It was a incredible for me to be able to taste my home again in my heirs. We didn't just taste an in your ears. You tried to practice yourself for years. I was just throw singing in the shower. I was trying to do both of the voices the call in the response. Then one night, she found herself casually throat singing for a few friends around a campfire an arts festival, and none of the festival director heard her and asked if she'd perform on stage. So I put on my slinky dress and a headband like I got up on stage. And I was like, I'm me. Jets total central say, okay. This is my thing. For particular thing combining throat singing with rock punk in top. Founded niche audience, and if the music resists classification labels, so does to Gawker sell. We asked about one label. She rejects outright, the Twitter bio says don't call me eskimo. What do you mean by that have heard too many times as an insult to to me personally? I've had that used against me. Like a RAV meat eater demented. They can't even cook your food, your two savage when you talk to southerners, which is basically everyone. The stereotypes you encounter. Kind of token is Asian of our culture. Cute little happiest komo's up there in the cold in their igloos. And and not looking at the heart and cold facts that there's a lot of poverty and people are going through a lot of grief communities face far, higher poverty levels than the rest of Canada in one main cause is food insecurity because little grows on the northern tundra. Food is imported in wildly expensive. We paid fifteen dollars for jar of peanut butter here. Clearly, hunting and fishing caribou musk Gok seal and char are not just an Inuit tradition, but means of survival something to goch says she constantly has to defend we'll have people from California telling us not to fish or or eat meat. It's like what are you gonna do here? Show me. The wears tofu show me show me the tofu says your whole foods right behind us food rate here. She is especially protective of the seal hunt using her spotlight to promote one of the Inuit only renewable resources wearing seal and eating it. It's delicious to goch is taken on animal rights. Groups portray seal hunting is inhumane. She wants tweeted this photo of her baby daughter next to a harvested seal her way of normalizing the hunt. The postal the city angry responses lane. Bear some of the ugliest assumptions about life. And none of it. Like people think we clubbed seals on on the head clear. I don't know anyone who's ever to see you. You don't like outsiders saying what you can and can't eat and what you can Kantar vist. I hate it. And you know, what else makes me really I'm telling you everything that pisses me up. She keeps the sense of humor as she sounds off both in conversation and in performance. Back up north her brother Carson has never seen her play live. But says he's proud of her. She's taking something old and making you do like it. Yeah. Waited too long. It's not van Morrison. That's for sure. But I think it takes a lot of guts to put to put yourself out there. The way that she has and to take Nunavut and the north to the to the global stages is a good thing. Other throat singing acts are following her breathing new life into an old artful. And for Tanya, this might be the most gratifying. No in her unlikely. Success? It makes me so. See this about Tanya to go to the North Pole and back, and you won't come across an artist any free. The mail this week comments on this past Sunday story on the border. Sharon, Fonsi reported from the gallon, Texas on what we saw with the US border patrol among Central American immigrant families seeking asylum and with the new acting secretary of homeland security, Kevin Michelini, not surprisingly the story prompted conflicting opinions from viewers as a Texan. It was high time that the border problem was reported accurately and fairly one can only wonder if the president's reelection campaign paid CBS for creating its campaign ad, which is what you're horribly one-sided report on a Silom constituted. And there was this from an Iowa of you're not a one-sided left versus right opinion. But facts, I felt compassion for the. Immigrants coming to the US, but also felt the need for improving. Our current system the day after our report, aired President Trump ordered new conditions for migrants applying for asylum. They include charging application fees, setting new rules, withholding work permits while asylum cases are in the judicial system and finding a solution to clear the years long backlog in jammed immigration courts. The government has also announced a pilot program to match the DNA of Silom seekers with the DNA of the children traveling with them at the border. It may begin as early as this week. I'm Bill Whitaker. We'll be back next week with another addition of sixty minutes.

Tanya Gok FBI Sam Sam Traci Lind Mark johnson Amy johnson government Tracy Canada Dr Bruce Miller Cleveland Atlanta CBS Leeds United States Bill Whitaker handcock hospital Emily goch
Princetons Doctor David Miller | How to Gain Trust with Your Organization | Turning to the Bible for Advice on Trust

Thrivetime Show | Business School without the BS

00:00 sec | 5 months ago

Princetons Doctor David Miller | How to Gain Trust with Your Organization | Turning to the Bible for Advice on Trust

"Get ready to enter the drive time. Show bad the bottom. Now on the top the systems to give what we got into books. Books sees bringing some wisdom in the refine. So if you see my wife and kids please tell them see nc now three to what he did. Yes yes yes and yes threat out there today. This is the. It's very rare that we will trick highly educated people to be on the show. It's very rare that we we have interviewed Dr Lori Santos for from Yale. Yes we have. We had the late Great Clayton Christensen from Harvard on the show. Yes and now we have yet another person who is smarter than me on the show smarter than both of us put together. Dr Miller here the director of Princeton University Faith and Work Initiative Dr Miller. Welcome onto the thrive time show. How are you sir? Well I'm fine and I just can't wait to see how this flows are. You guys are pretty hot. I've never heard opening music like that before I love it. Oh man just wait. We're just getting started. Just getting warmed up. W- I tell you what if you brought us onto the campus of Princeton. There'd be a lot of complaints soon. Everyone would have their own interests. There'd be restraining orders shortly thereafter and and it would be chaos. Cats dogs would be living together. By the time we got out of their best censor the click and clack of this business right. Absolutely all right. So here's the deal now. I had the article that was written about your research. Emailed to me by a person and then text to me by another person. And they said. You'd like this. That's basically the summer and the article was titled Davis. Turns to the Bible for advice on trust for those who haven't read the article. What are you talking about you know? There's their study after. Study and articles. both academic studies as well as just sort of common sense As where people are saying that they increasingly do not trust the institutions of society and that could be government it could be the corporate world. Frankly it's a number of things And and the the trust is that people talk about a trust deficit. I got to thinking about how 'cause most companies I know. There are fine people and find organization. They're trying to do the right thing. And even good companies Screw up your time to time and have mistakes but actually have a mistake whether it's sort of been suspended part of who you are or off the mishap of how do you restore trust. How do you get your your shareholders stakeholders your clients or even your employees to have trust in you again and and I was having a conversation with it with a client. I do consulting work with and they said well. What do you think that's the way you might turn to religion for some ideas? And they looked at me like a tree is. And what do you mean? Well religions are really good at helping people. Think through path back to get right with God to get their neighbor or their spouse whatever it might be the pathways to healing pathways to getting back into a state of trust with community. So that's what prompted this whole Venture into with led to this white paper that we wrote. Let's say that I am the CEO of McDonald's or former CEO of McDonald's. And I decided to date an employee pop up and I was in fired in Europe in your opinion totally hypothetical. How does somebody go about getting trust back with the organization? How do you do that? Should ensure boss be fired for violating their own policies and dating their employees? Well Gosh is it a few questions for for starters yesterday. What the policy at the policy says you know you cannot date anyone who reports to you and if you're the CEO by definition that means everyone reports to you directly or indirectly so you gotta follow the policy or else your employees quickly view you as a hypocrite and your leadership will be damaged and your credibility slowly erodes. So if you have that policy you gotta follow it And more and more companies are not Say they're not giving someone a or a second chance you breach it. It's proven you're gone even in even in small business. What have you have twenty employees? I think people small business Mama's every doctor it's a small business and even though it's a small big what would you? What would you say if if this is here? Here's a specific situation. We had a thriving who emailed in a question and they have a business. That's doing over one hundred million dollars of revenue true story over one hundred million dollars of revenue and they know that their boss is having an affair with one of the core emailed in wanting to know. How do you handle it? What would you say to boss out there? That's having an affair with a co-worker walk us through this idea. It should the boss be fired immediately. Done no questions boom done. Well that's a trickier conver- conversation because chances are it. Company of that number of employees may not have formal HR policies dealing with this scenario Chances are there's not an ultimate recourse. Because if it's owner founder they hold all the cards. There's asymmetric power There's unless there's a true independent board but chances are that just might be fellow family members so the your your options are few I it also. I think another differentiating character. Church expect fact. Plan that your of affect pattern you're describing is Is in an affair or they both single consenting adults. There's slightly different dimensions to it Different more ramifications as a quick editor's note they were. We let him off the hook. But as a practical matter and either case That could cause disruption jealousy preferential treatment or the perception of preferential treatment So based on someone's confidence in themselves and the reputation of the CEO Someone might choose to go to that person or the HR office And say look do what you want but you need to know this hurting. Your credibility people are thinking that whoever is is getting preferential treatment and the only reason the person's being promoted or had to raise or whatever is just because a relationship and I don't think you want those sort of rumors going around. You just need to kind of think about what you do with it but even then it's a gutsy thing A lot of people you know the old saying. Don't shoot the mailman so male person He. It's a tough thing. The realities are tough things so Dr Jamila Miller. Let's say that you got hired by the Houston Astros. Let's say the Houston Astros reached out. Here's the deal. Is that a garbage. Can I hear in the background there? I can't checks exactly so if you're if you let's say you got a call from these guys and they said here's the deal we have been cheating a little and you say okay a little every game every game here already ears trying to restore trust because we are first. Pr Strategy was to say. We're not guilty. We have never cheated then. We doubled down saying we're never ever ever ever busted until until the world series. Would you have an organization like the Houston Astros where the team has been caught systemically cheating to restore trust with the fan base? Yeah so to me. That that's not so mysterious as facts have come out and as I understand the The the commissioner didn't make some of the facts available. There's just some recent letters which come out that it sounds like The the top leadership of the organization knew about it or at least knew it existed and people are opposite of backpedaling from that but the the the surface evidence suggests that a lot of folks knew about it wasn't just a rogue actor so In this paper called the towards a restoration of trust and the subtitle was 'cause you know Akademik papers have to have two titles can't say in one world the subtitle. It's preliminary insights and lessons from wisdom traditions and by that we mean we looked at the three ever having to this and said Judaism Christianity and Islam. It's like what are these different traditions. Say well as far as wisdom. Not Not like what they're right. Belief is or claimed beliefs. But like you know. How do you live a good life? Like what intelligence. What's William is there? So one of the things we say back onto the Houston Astros is that you need to start with Like as a base. Are you genuinely Repenting are you genuinely Owning up to it or you're still holding back some. Are you still not telling the truth? Because if you're still holding back some and not to true all you do is dig. Dig your hole deeper and deeper I I tell. My students teach ethics class. That's called business ethics in modern religious. Thought your friend and you know students always have nicknames for classes like are dark or physics for poets or know things like that and they call this how to succeed without selling your soul and one of the the. The aphorism are things I get sort of list of things. Don't ever forget. Get and one of the on that. Long list is is Early Confessions are always less expensive than later. Concessions really concessions are always less expensive than later. So yeah it's embarrassing yeah. It's horrible but if you're gonNA he's gotTa get it all out and if you're if you're giving your if you're only releasing new apologies because you've been forced to someone discovered something that you hadn't it is going to be so hard to rebuild credited credibility And you need to take. We have this sort of loved theses in this paper. Eleven arguments ideas that are sort of suggestions to think about one ought to be really true confession and we could use that both in religious sense of the word or or or General Social Senses saying. I did the following and I feel terrible about it. And here's what I'm GonNa do and the time to come to try to make things whole I mean can you imagine if they had on something like saying You know personal boundaries? You might offer to your boss. You tend to your resignation. They still come on. I know that was never a good guy. You'RE NOT GONNA I'm not GonNa Start You. Just don't don't do it again. I wonder what happened at the Houston. Astros had gone to the commissioner and voluntarily offered to to Give back percents their their World Series Championship. What a radical idea I'm sure a lot of people have been angry if they had done that. Because no one likes to give up and Sometimes I think fan basis or no win at all costs and But I I think it would have been extraordinary gesture if they did that And who knows what the commissioner would have said. But it's sort of thinking outside the box that we find sometimes in religious traditions that help elevate us out of our kind of day to day world to think Like the bigger mindset. How do you go from however you grew up to being on the campus of Princeton? About your background for a second. How did you grow up? And maybe when did it occur to you? I want to teach Princeton. Teacher standards have slipped teaching at a school. That would never admit me as a student. And that's a now you know I. I suspect you know for you. Both in for a lot of people who might be listening to this that you may start when you're young out of high school or college and and you say. I WanNa be an act. I WANNA be a plumber. I want to be a lawyer. I want to go into sales or want to be an entertainer. I want to be a musician. You know whatever it might be. I WanNa be a CEO And a couple of things happen during lights. Personal Life happens And invariably you'll have some moments of success and failure which tend to reset the clock and you might have to take a sharp turn right or left on on your plan Or you may realize just not in the cards that that I'm knocking to be an NBA basketball player. So what next And and then there's also you have sometimes a little bit in my case that you need some of the changes your life or you you haven't experienced and sometimes they're painful experiences or sometimes they're just beautiful wonderful experiences that tilsit till she trajectory to To a different way so I can't really can't like how I got here. God's grace hard work. blessing Good Fortune on lock Sort of a hybrid And later the in hindsight in the rear view mirror I could see sort of an orchestrated plan. If you will that. It's a bit more clear now that that I was in the corporate world for sixteen years as a senior executive working internationally as well living in London for eight years. And and then you could see later then I did some theological studies and got my PhD ethics. And all that and now I can kind of put those those two pieces together but I never would have thought at age. Twenty two or something. Oh I'm GONNA be in. Business Grew Sixteen years and then studied theology and then go work at Princeton. It's just like doesn't work that way. I've never been on the campus of Princeton because the security people Z. They turned me restraining order. What sort of reception have you gotten a received how much what kind of reception have you received from your colleagues but other Ivy League people when they hear you recommending that people look at the Bible for business advice and for wisdom? I mean as gone over. Well have people booed. How's it going? Well for starters I frame it a little differently. The article the newspaper articles for this is not how I would describe what I do. So I I look at I'm really interested in wisdom and guidance for life and if that comes from a scientist great if it comes from an artist or poet great if it comes from the Bible great so all truth is truth in my view and and I think many people will say the embrace that idea that That all truth is God's truth regardless of the source so the reason I think this is landed. Well is that that. I'm taking a wider view of the question. What is your relationship like with Philip Morris? International did they did. They have some sort of involvement in underwriting. Your study or walk us through that That that relationship yeah. We'll very simple First of all I'm private about discussions I had with any client. Whatever consulting work. I do As this was a published paper you on the frontier could've put note that This is my independent work with my colleague. Michael Tait that we call through but we were completely independent. What we wrote and by the way the paper isn't about them it's about could be any organization it can be Boeing Who's having some challenges this past year it could be wells Fargo Bank who are still having challenges It could be governmental body. It could be the church. It could be a university so it's written for generically organizations and and I acknowledge up front so that there's that I received compensation to write the paper Just as full disclosure as an episode to me. That's just it's just the right thing to do but I do make clear that the opinions are not that of my university. Not that of the client there. What my colleague and I there are opinions based on our research. Well I have. I have a lot of questions for him. I know doctors. He's GonNa wind up me here. Dr Z. We have on on the phone here. We have a Dr Miller is a guy who knows clearly a lot about how to gain trust within your organization. You have hundreds of employees there you work with and I think sometimes you kind of get can kind of take the high level concepts break down sometimes to the very simple man like myself z? What questions do you have on behalf of all the simple people like me out there that are maybe going? How can I apply this to my life? I you know I can only say one thing. I gotTA. I gotTA say they're clerk of. I actually have family that hails from Tulsa yes. I think you're dumb as a Fox when you say sample people. I know how that works. I'm I'm staying alert here. Standing on his toes he probably drinking energy drinks right before this. I think I mean. He's helped me out doctors. He helped me out. What's up. Well I you. What so. This shows really geared for entrepreneurs business owners guys gals that want to start or have started a business and one of the things that I think happens is trust with a patient or a customer breaks down because one of your employees drops the ball your concept dummy it down maybe a little bit for the guy listing out there that has a chiropractic office and he has an irate patient and he's trying to teach his employees how to gain their trust. Try to walk them off. The Ledge or he himself has been called into. It is faced with the patient. That's just a dentist. Irate patient guy that has a tire shop I mean. Someone's out there and they are. They're swinging Haymakers Adam. Right verbally mentally physically walked in through some steps just some quick easy like simple steps of how they can get control the situation and regain trust and maybe turn that ship around turned dude or do walk through that. Dr. Yeah so there's no formula but but that always work every which would here a couple of quick things I would say. I make sure you're listening carefully and Hearing what their complaint is And if you're a really good listener often the presenting problem in other words. What they're screaming at you about may not be the real problem that might be a symptom might the An outcome of an underlying problem. So if you're really good. Listen to what they're saying and what they might actually be meaning but because they're are so angry. They may not have the composure or the the skilled actually articulate what they're upset about so that's maybe the first thing Actually maybe before that is if you think of the whole fight or flight reaction that we have as human beings all your your Stops flowing and more you. You gotta like control yourself and make sure you don't Out of defensiveness or or hurt or angry License sort of lose your temper and start drifting into them or or blaming blaming a hold on to roll here. Sorry Dr David. There is e. Was David Okay Dave. He was scalding is because he remembers the last time my accosted customer about fifteen years ago with a megaphone for filing a complaint. That was bad phone. Don't don't buster and a half. Remember that moment I remember. It was like yesterday I remember. It was just a couple of seconds ago. Actually I'm sorry about okay. David continue continue on. I'm sorry for the roof. Megaphone interruption transmitter. Yeah I mean th so they try to get some logistics left him though and there's no technique it's simple assistant isn't in the paper kind of common sense to say. Let me see if I hear you right. You're saying the following is that correct so they can Lisa someone finally heard. We are now still. Don't have it right so you might you know. Take a moment to do that. And so then with. That person knows they've been heard so they might simmer down a little bit And then you kind of have to real quickly on the spot figure out Did I is the person right and like oh my gosh. I'm not proud to that And you might begin to say well. This is really the case. The courses needs to be fixed up. I'm not proud to hear it. I'm really glad you told me during Based on Hell Simpler Complex. It is you might. Then you could say let me look into this and come back with an update. An answer But there in sometimes when the complainant shall we call him or her. It's just wrong that they're noxious or they're a liar or trying to scam me or something or and that's trickier when when you have someone who's whether in good faith bad safe inaccurate and what they're describing and that's that's a trickier one. Yeah and you'd vice on that one that nefarious actions of somebody in the anything. You can eat a little little little gum ball little pearl you can throw away. Yeah haven't called DR Z. Now there you go good. He answered that Mega. You gotTa have a spine and the bend. But don't break so I if you sense that this is like a known complainer known trouble. Troublemaker You know try to be always be as courteous as possible And and also tell the truth and I think if you know on the spot that that it's a spurious claim and you don't have to do a lot of research and factually wrong or even if the right it still doesn't matter like they just misunderstand it. I think you could tell them say look. I'm sorry this is how we run our business. This is the policy or whatever it might be and and we're not going to change it and I understand you're disappointed and that made me and we're GONNA lose a customer and you'll never come back. Probably saying I hope they don't but you do that kind of hold your ground politely And you know what there's a business owner out there that needed to hear that right in there they did because so many people have this concept the the customer's always right and they're not always right exactly exactly and sometimes you know you you bite your tongue and it's it's easier not to fight it. Costs aren't big enough. And you just go with it but but sometimes it's You know it could be damaging and and actually your please might so you don't have their back because they might get upset because they're getting run truck all time and And this anyway Bossi. This isn't right. GotTA STAND UP. The customer's always right. So how do we handle it? When they're not and I'm maybe astronaut employees. I back in like corporate days When we had various complex problems we're dealing with the answer usually is with someone on the front lines And we just had to give them permission and create a culture that they could that they could speak out and not feel embarrassed or afraid of getting shot themselves. David we have time for one more question from one of our great show sponsors Josh with living water irrigation. Before he asked. You the question. I want to ask you this if you are hypothetically hypothetical hypothetical let's say that you are a woman and you accidentally somebody that is hypothetically work in an alternative universe ripped another man's speech and they'll let's say that you are a person who's president of another country who hypothetically said something that made you so mad that made you want to rip the speeches and to parties. That can't get along here. What advice would you have for the man who's given the speech to makes the lady so the speech or the person who's rich ripping the speech? What advice would you have for those two hypothetical people? How do they regain trust? Is it hugging? Is it side hugging you? Do they need to visit? What is the hypothetical situations? What would you recommend for these two? We'll call them. Pelosi and trump these hypothetical people and add somebody behind me who is mumbling terribly. Bumbling mongering Ryan and I had not been shall we say through Ciaston about the divisiveness that would occur from a impeachment weighing the equities. I had said. Then he's not worth impeaching because it's even going to divide the country further than he has already divided. What would it is? Would you have lost work together to build? Trust what does your several folks Over over the years of said to me on and off like wow what you're doing you know with the corporate world is just really great. It's important keep it up. Thank you have you ever thought. Have you ever thought of going to DC DC needs these kind of ideas and thoughts and at which point I say That famous line for the MONTY PYTHON MOVIE. Run away run away. It's just not my face I I I I try you know. Everyone has your sweet spot. You stay sweet spot. You guys are radio guys and podcasts guys in this media should you be in Hollywood movies. Maybe I don't know but you know this is your sweet spot. The corporate world so I'm going to take a pass on that one. I can think of a lot of things but I'm gonNA take a pass. I'm built more for radio by the way. Here's why I recommend this is my tip. They'll go to Josh. I'd recommend that trump tastic and Pelosi. They sit down together and they do paper scissors. And then whoever best three would they say you're fine? You're good you're you're you're josh back to you. Hey Dr Miller so my question would be served so a lot of people when you bring up the Bible or Christianity or Jesus. Christ they immediately shut down or immediately Exit the conversation so I obviously believe in these biblical truths and foundations and principles. But how do you segue or how do you present these truths without turning somebody off or shutting somebody down simply because Christianity or the word of God? Yeah so I think it's a great question so if as you self self described who you are and what you believe in and But if your goal if your goal is to have them here your message and not be turned off then Then I think we all can practice with our vocabulary and Find the same words kind of non Churchill's words to make your point if you're drawing on biblical wisdom be a proverb. Let's say or or some some other part of the older New Testament You know maybe you don't start by saying the Bible says the following because that person may not leaving the violent right through conversations over But but but you know what the point is that verses you might be drawing on or what that terrible is so Find a non Religious Church away to say Because I think you're right because if you're doing business in Tulsa or Timbuktu or Thailand or wherever it might be You want to invite someone into conversation and and not lose them after your first sentence and I don't think that by way invalidates what you believe. I don't think you're compromising yourself or you're not being true to your faith You're just find it a different way to her way to talk about it. That's awesome thank you if for the listeners out there that want to know more about you into follow your work into deep dive into it more. What do they need to Google? Search to find your papers or what website would recommend they go to? I know we've got people out there that WANNA learn more about you and the work that you have been putting together and then the research you've been doing over the years Work they find more about you. Well probably the easiest is our website here. Cranston it's called the safe and work all written out safe. Amd WORK DOT PRINCETON DOT EDU and worked Princeton Dot Edu. And you'll come up to our our sort of our team there There's videos of different leaders that I've interviewed people in the C. Suite here how? They tapped into their their faith tradition as a as a sort of a true north or anchor in their life so a lot of our publishing work there or point. You two different things we've done. That's probably the best place to go. Educates for full disclosure because we like to authenticate indicate everything that said on our show to thrive nasal yeah absolutely. Tulsa is a city in Oklahoma in the country of the United States of America. This land is is a country in Asia and Timbuktu is a city in the country of Mali. Which is in western Africa? So if you're doing if you're doing business any one of those three things then what he says a just I just want closure may be saying about tens of money make attempt. I mean. That's money mega tip market in western Africa doing doing business doing business time there. David we appreciate you so much. My friend thank you for allowing us to virtually step onto the campus of Princeton there and then everybody out there if you have not yet check it out go to faith and work dot Princeton Dot. Edu and work dot Princeton Dot Edu and again David. Thank you so much for taking time schedule done well done. Well you guys you great news. One in interviews. I've done ever so it was very fun. Thank you take care buddy ticket and now without further ado do what?

Dr David Princeton Dr Jamila Miller CEO Houston Astros commissioner Tulsa Pelosi Princeton University Clayton Christensen Dr Lori Santos Josh Harvard nc Davis Europe Dr Z. We Dr Miller

Friday, April 12, 2019 - The Christian Science Monitor Daily

The Christian Science Monitor Daily

00:00 sec | 1 year ago

Friday, April 12, 2019 - The Christian Science Monitor Daily

"Welcome to the monitor daily podcast. It's Friday April twelfth. Thanks for joining us. I'm Peter Greer. And I'm Molly Jackson. Retired air force. Lieutenant Colonel Richard Cole was America's last connection to a renowned exploit of World War Two. He was also an example of the power of come Roderick. Lieutenant Colonel Cole who died. Tuesday was one of doolittle's raiders volunteers who flew a bombing raid against Japanese cities after the attack on Pearl Harbor. He was co-pilot for mission commander Jimmy Doolittle on April eighteenth nineteen forty two when they rolled down the deck of the US hornet in loaded b twenty five's the raiders or sure they would make it off the deck. They knew they were too far from their targets to likely make it to safe landings and China they went anyway. The raid inflicted minimal damage. Most raiders either bailed out or crash landed short of the Chinese coast. But it was a huge boost to US morale. That part of the story is well, though. Less. Well known is the group legacy Doolittle and his men began a tradition. They held a reunion every year with some exceptions Richard Cole was the raiders last survivor years ago. I interviewed a few raiders they said they looked forward to the reunion with real anticipation think could be rockets. Sure, but they remembered the solemnity of gathering with brothers the final toast with a ritual for them only even waiters left the room. The last reunion took place in twenty thirteen Cole gave the toast to those. We lost on the mission and those who have passed away since he said. Now onto our five stories for today, which include a look at why hardliner Stephen Miller is winning White House immigration battles and how flooded Nebraska's have found time to extend compassion to stranded animal. Our first story alleged foreign meddling in US. Elections has been a rather hot topic. What about u s meddling abroad? The concept is new but president Donald Trump's actions in Israel may have broken new ground US intervention and other countries affairs is nothing new from covert CIA involvement in elections in Latin America and southeast Asia to more subtle support for favorite candidates or pro-democracy movements in eastern Europe. But those efforts from the most overt to the least conspicuous we're generally justified as being undertaken on behalf of US national security interests values experts note for many international affairs, experts President Donald Trump support for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's winning campaign in Israel elections. This week was not very subtle election eve policy shifts in the Golan Heights and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard corps. It also may have broken new ground by using that endorsement to bolster his own support at home among key elements of his political base, we meddle in other countries affairs. All the time we've mailed an elections and have overthrown governments. But this is completely different says Aaron David Miller, a former State Department advisor on Middle East affairs now at the Woodrow Wilson center in Washington, it's peculiar to the US Israel relationship, and is an overt pro-netanyahu approach that is tied up with Mr. Trump's own political interests. The story was reported by Howard the Frankie for the monitor. This Trump eight is often portrayed as a puppet. Master pulling strings that's an exaggeration. But his convictions run deep going back to his time as a conservative outlier at liberal Santa Monica high. At California's liberal sent him. Okay. Hi, Stephen Miller was known for his outspoken, conservative views. He went around saying everyone in their parents, should speak English or go to the country says cash Aram who has known Mr Miller a top advisor to President Donald Trump since middle school today. Mr Miller's far right views lie at the center of controversy amid a surge of migrants at the US Mexico border and upheaval at the department of homeland security, Mr Miller has been portrayed as the one controlling White House immigration policy from behind the scenes, but the story is more complex, Jared Kushner, the president's more moderate son-in-law also has a piece of the portfolio working on legislation that would boost legal immigration alongside Mr Miller of hurts. It looks like a good Cup that Cup routine. Ultimately, Mr. Trump is the boss while Mr Miller's deeply-held vision on immigration doesn't. Always carry the day his symmetry to Mr. Trump makes him extraordinarily influential. He's always said very publicly and people's faces how he felt about things says MS ram and that makes him powerful in his conviction. This story was reported by Linda Feldmann in Washington for the monitor. As a young correspondent nearly thirty years ago. Scott Peterson watch to Omar al-bashir cement, his control of Sudan this week that regime came to an end opening another unpredictable chapter of its history since Thursday Sydney's protesters have been absorbing the news at the military removed president Amara share from power ending a nearly thirty year regime, but with the temporary military council declaring a state of emergency and a two year transition period, the lessons of the two thousand eleven era, spring, loom large crowds are dismissing what they call the clone of renewed military rule as they saw Egypt. They also want to avoid the chaos that has shaken post uprising, Libya, Syria and Yemen. But the spring has more than cautionary tales in Tunisia. For example, continued street pressure for weeks after the president fell helped bring about. The kind of democratic outcome. Sudanese protesters want to see so Jomo t palm an expert on the Tunisian revolution to marketisation doesn't just happen. When a leader is pushed out of power. He says it takes a show of strength on the street. Many protesters hoping to steer their evolution toward civilian control. Are staying where they've been for months in the streets there. First step Thursday night was to defy in new curfew continuing sin. But with a changed chant no longer fall. That's all. But fall again. This story was reported by Scott Peterson in London for the monitor. After disaster good deeds. Inspire more of them from Nebraska floods to California, fires horse owners, ranchers and farmers pitch and save animals and keep the rescues fed last month as Bill Watters jumped into a frigid Nebraska flood to save a pony that was not his he became another link in a chain of volunteer animal. Rescuers just as they did for people Nebraska's band together to save livestock and pets after record. Breaking floods today. The waters farm is a distribution point for feed and supplies because one California horse owner who has helped by number Askins during the California wildfires wanted a place to donate some. Hey donations have also come from my omen and Texas and elsewhere in Dallas, Mr. waters, met another volunteer Kathy Williams for hurricane Harvey in two thousand. Seventeen she organized delivery of aid to a flooded Houston and last summer after Joe peer and Justin Jones helped a couple with a horse trailer. Change a tire in California. They started a Facebook page called cowboy nine one in November. The group gathered people to rescue an estimated five thousand animals from areas affected by the destructive campfire. I really think that God was calling us to start. This says Mr. Jones, I think he did it more for me than for the people we've helped. This story was reported by Lauren Belsey in Hooper Nebraska for the monitor. What is a country song? Old town road. The number one song in America blend to music genres that in some ways couldn't be further apart, but which are both based on sense of place, truth telling and outsider status Ono. Birth valley. Now. Before he recorded his nine eleven anthems. Toby Keith became the first country artist Harrap on a record today artists like Sam hunt, and Luke Bryan experiment with booming. Hip hop beats interspersed with banjo truth be told much country radio. Fair is nearly indistinguishable from pop. And her old town road the country trap song that is the number one song in America, but has been banished from billboards country charts. A lot of artists rushed illness Xs defense, including Billy Ray Cyrus who noted countries long outlaw tradition in which it is a badge of honor to be rejected by Nashville and by extension country radio. Other famous outlaws include now revered names like Waylon Jennings. Johnny cash and Willie Nelson. Mr. Cyrus called the song, honest, humble, an infectious qualities that for him defined country music on an emotional level. He worked with little NASA to create a remix creatively. I think it's always a good idea. When there's a hybrid genres with cross cultural conversations going on says recording veteran, Tom Willett president of darkhorse institute. It makes some real interesting new music. Times. This story was reported by Patrick Johnson in Savannah, Georgia for the monitor the song clip. You heard earlier is an excerpt from old town road by lil- knows ex. Now commentary on the ouster of Sudanese dictator O'Meara bus year from the monitor's editorial board. One liberating moment in a democratic revolution occurs. When enough people reject dictators frequent attempts to convince them, they have enemies in recent weeks. Protests Don have provided a prime example of this. It's revolution is only half complete after Thursday's ouster of strongman of us year, the military that sidelined him still clings to power yet. The Sudanese have revealed a mental freedom from dictatorships pattern of manufacturing hate. Mr Bush share was able to hold power for thirty years by finding many foes in any of Sudan's, tribal, social or religious groups for him Warren division were tools to keep Bauer again. And again, however, the protests have shown new desire for inclusion not exclusion. If Sudan has an enemy at may not have been Mr. Bashir or now in his place, the military top brass rather the Sudanese. No, the problem was their willingness to believe in enemies, they have chosen instead to find unity around a hope for peace and democracy, the regime itself, even without Mr. Bashir is proving that it is its own. Worst enemy it too. Shall fall. That's a wrap for the news. You can find the full length versions of these stories in today's issue or at us monitor dot com slash daily. We hope you'll join us next week in commemoration of Earth Day, the monitor has teamed up with spark news and eighteen of the world's leading news media to highlight local initiatives addressing global issues of waste and pollution for the monitor's. First installment of earth beats staff writer, Eva, Botkin Cooper looks at a NASA. Movement to eliminate grocery packaging. Today's Christian Science, spiritual perspective contributor didn't have enough funds to both pay tax Bill and register car the idea that God's goodness is endless listed, her fear and prop peace and in short order. Unexpected income came in that was just the amount she needed to pay each Bill on time. You can find her story. Today's issue or it's monitor dot com slash daily. We want to give a quick thanks to our staff including today's audio production team. Shing Pang and Knowles lot. This podcast is produced by the Christian Science, Monitor copyright twenty nineteen.

US Aaron David Miller President Donald Trump president Lieutenant Colonel Richard Col raiders America doolittle California Nebraska Bill Watters Washington Peter Greer Molly Jackson Scott Peterson China Jimmy Doolittle Justin Jones White House