20 Episode results for "David Fincher"

The David Fincher Rankings, Part II

The Big Picture

1:35:53 hr | 9 months ago

The David Fincher Rankings, Part II

"Today's episode of the big picture is brought to you. By Heineken, Heineken original lager is made with pure Malt and their famous a yeast which makes Heineken and all season all the time kind of beer me. Personally, I like to invite my Pals Amanda Dobbins and Chris Ryan over to my back porch sit out there crack open a Chris Colt Heineken, and enjoy the fall months here in Los Angeles. So pick up a pack or have it delivered today and drink responsibly. I'm Sean Fantasy I'm Amanda Dobbins, and this is the big picture a conversation show about David fincher part to later in this episode I have a conversation with the different visionary. Her name is Miranda July she has a new film called Kajillions opening this weekend. I. Hope you will stick around for that and now joining us to close the loop on the fincher rankings that we began on an episode earlier this week is the big picture tyler durden a man whose ideas are so powerful. He isn't even real. He's just the projection of my masculine ideal. It's Chris Ryan, guess what soap is made out of brother. You tell us. They're made out of my thoughts she we want address I she we addressed the controversy surrounding part one or should we address the fact that you guys are GonNa have to come crawling back to television for the rest of twenty? Twenty. Well I think we gotta talk. About Some of these things they fit together right I we we blasphemed the TV format on the last episode of this show you know I, I like television and I love mindhunter but I still feel strongly about where we placed it in the episode earlier this week and I think Karma we've been paid back by Disney deciding to move almost all of its films off of the slate to twenty twenty one amanda didn't even really WanNa talk about this but here you are talking about it on a podcast feeling no black widow this year death on the Nile gone everything you wanted gun I mean it definitely. Is a personal loss, the month of Amanda which was supposed to be October just got a little. Less fine. But when we're framing and in terms of now I have to come crawling back to TV. No, I don't I really don't. This is a this is a movie podcast. I'M GONNA Watch. What I want I'm going to feel what I feel about formats you can't tell me anything. So I just want to this. Is. Her brain and her eyes are telling me this. That over the course of November. Once a week man is going to light some candles. She's going to draw the curtains. She's GonNa. Put on her crown. and. She's going to watch the crown and she's GonNa make that go for because usually Amanda is she can't control herself. She's she when she gets the crown in her hands, she watches the season like twice in a day. But you're GONNA, have to make that last lady. Let me tell you right now I'm not GONNA be watching it at all because everyone else has access to it but me that's okay but that's Are you GONNA wind screeners? It's fine. I'm just saying I. Bring back to Disney in the movies and I was looking forward to death. On the Nile. I was even looking forward to black widow number one because it has actresses I like and number two because. Listen We said with tenant it's fine to have big budget movies and that is a real loss. I'm feeling the absence of that in my watching diet, I think it I didn't WanNa. Talk about it because it seemed inevitable and and I think we all knew this was coming I. Understand that people are kind of annoyed of hearing US talking about that. At great length I'm sure we'll talk more about what it means for the movie industry. I just KINDA WANNA point out that it's like it's very clear that the only way these decisions get made which we knew already was because of finances and tenant didn't open probably enough and with enough money and so everyone is punting and it's public safety it's not. You know a responsibility to theater going or you know how we watch movies or like the power of cinema it's money, and here we are. I think it also indicates pretty clearly that despite the some of the reports around how successful Milan was clearly not successful enough because if it had been more successful, we might have seen at least one or two of these titles announced as being a part of the Disney plus premium roll out that that movie had and none of them have. It, and so what does that mean that means Disney needs to make more money by getting movies into movie theaters, but they can only do. So when it's safe to get into movie theaters, I mean, this is kind of a bet a bunch of these movies are moving several months into the future including west side story, which was tabbed to be one of the biggest Oscar contenders of twenty twenty is now moving a full year to December twenty twenty one steven Spielberg is arguably the most. Powerful person in Hollywood if he is part of that decision making that gives you a sense of how people really feel about the direction that things are moving and they're not great Chris. I know Was your most anticipated movie of Two Thousand Twenty One how are you feeling about moving two months? Well, the Disney this is interesting to me because you know Disney's obviously a subscription service so they must be thinking of themselves we're not going to get. X. Number of extra subscribers to this service. By offering any of these movies on our service, it would have been I'm curious to see what does non Disney wise move to demand. You know I don't I don't know what antebellum did this week in terms of in terms of its at home watching in terms of what, what what is pulling in from on demand. But yet for the for the companies that own their own streaming services that are subscription based that have got already a huge base of of subscribers. I do think it's kind of like. The theaters opened up again it's so hard to say I mean that specific thing and I'm sure God's will be talking point for us for the next five years. But you know man and I had a chance to see the trial, the Chicago seven last night which I'm excited to talk about at great length in the future on this show Sorkin, Sorkin baby, he does it again For me though. Okay. This is a real. It's a real wikipedia situations just avoid googling Abbie Hoffman. But we saw that movie and that was a movie that was supposed to come out in theaters. Courtesy of paramount paramount ostensibly has a streaming service at its disposal in CBS all access. So if there was a push internally Viacom to get that movie onto their streaming service, they could have done that instead they sold it for more than fifty million dollars to net flicks, and now Netflix has it in its arsenal of Oscar films in twenty twenty. So I don't how these companies make their decisions about what should and shouldn't go to their streaming services. I think is going to be very specific. To each corporation and where they stand Disney Disney is fortunate in that the thing that I'm most excited to watch this fall now that all these movies have moved off is the mental mandatory I. Mean That's really that's what's keeping someone like me on Disney plus and you know maybe Wanda Vision to which you know they previewed, and now I mean that is going to be. That's our our IV drip for the MC you now for what seems like at least the next I don't know six, seven eight months, and that's just the fascinating proposition. Can I sound two notes of an uninformed optimism? Chore Okay, one is drive around Los Angeles like if you talk to people who are in this industry, there are making stuff again I mean it does seem like I I just today I drove past. A set in on the east side of Los Angeles and on the other, the other I would mention is this pretty much is in line with some of the things that you're hearing from people like Adam Silver runs the NBA about when they think that they'll be able to mount another season and why they are waiting. Possibly, until spring next year because they do want people back in the stadium. So hopefully, that means that you know after the what will I'm sure be a really difficult winter for a lot of people. Will have something for to a huge win for the watch a big loss for the big picture Amanda. How are you feeling about our twelve part one division pod excited about that I was honestly just thinking about how I can cancel Disney class now which and I'm probably like the only person in America who's just like, Oh, well, death on the Nile is no longer. GonNa be available on TV od so I can cancel my seven bucks a month to Disney, plus like I, understand that a singular thing but it is interesting in terms of thinking about what's available and what you need to. Keeping people on a service versus trying to incentivize people to sign up for service and that I WANNA vision. I didn't watch the trailer think I heard people say it looked cute I probably won't watch it but. You weren't them and the people who do if you were a why leaving New York Essay. But why? Why leaving dizzy plus. biolog-. Let's. If, you don't write that letter I suspect somebody out there in the CR farm will do that. So now it's time for us to address the biggest scandal of twenty twenty thus far, and it's been a scandal is year, but this is a shocking series of events. Now, we tend to the fates earlier this week on the show by. Calling out the cr-heads think you dubbed them the C., our heads many years ago Chris and they've been following you ever since your own personal tea party and a new twitter account appeared you shared it with us. Curious. You shared it with us as opposed to Amanda are discovering it. And that that twitter account identifies itself as Chris Ryan bought, and the handle is at CR heads unite and the Avatar for said account is a photo of a digital Halsey at a Lakers game during this bubble period and The Bio here says MVP of at the big pick at ringer slash king of TV at the watch pod now Chris. You and I have been close for many years and I know I know a lot about you and are not above launching an anonymous account to express your creativity and perhaps valorize yourself from afar. No way you those are two different two different accusations that I want answer separately am I above launching a fake twitter account? No. Would I do so for my. valorize myself. You do know me that. Well, you know I wouldn't do that. You know I would not be like CR, another great week of pods from CR. Let's go through some of their heads. Would you say you're above paying a twenty year? Old Undergrad to launch an account they would valorize your work really at a time of revolution. Why is it so hard to believe that an idea catches fire out there. Anybody fucking support me. This information is free gets beamed out to everybody man you can't I can't control what happens. Once it leaves my mouth. This, I disagree with this best. Quite funny. This you. Also, let's let's I'm turning the tables I'm going Daniel. Kathy. You guys are rooted. You guys cool rooted about Hunter thought about this I thought. About my head No. Okay. I will not allow you to accuse me Amanda Dobbins who shows up every week and it's like, Chris. Helped me help you every week in front of everyone. I'm just like what can you and I do together to bring down big Sean this shot not the other one and I just like no, you can't accuse me of that might honor had happened I tried to. You. This is what I will say you to seemed incredibly united in a very similar take which was like about where mind hunter should be. It didn't see. It seemed like you guys were like there's no way minehunter can break into the top two tiers Christopher we've met you know how I feel about this television show. Here's the thing as usual. My plan is going swimmingly, which is that I have sowed chaos. It is I who started at Sierra. I'm just kidding I did I didn't start it. Crystal. Just been like, that would have been like the greatest trick. The overplayed if Amanda is Bide cr-heads. Yeah You're going to be like cruising in fallout ripping off the wolf blitzer mask to reveal. Okay obviously, these accounts have formed to celebrate Chris's extremely bad takes whenever he comes on the show notable that they would site the big pick in the bio head of the watch the show you've been hosting for many years. What do you think that's about Chris? It's probably just issues cultural over you know and I think that like I play different roles in different shows you know like here I think I am probably like it's the cuffs are off me man, you know what I mean like I don't have to host I don't have to move things along I can disrupt things I can go off on tangents it's up to you. Keep me Hem did you know you have kind of like Lindsey Graham Energy I would say you know you might say one thing one day, and then another thing another day. Of you in time out very soon. Okay. Okay Let's. Let's go back to venture because that's the only thing they can get us back in an organized orderly. By. The way spoiler alert. I have a feeling that this will be a much more smooth smooth ride for the dope. You don't know. Are you kidding number one I have a plan again Chris Ryan you come on this podcast and you underestimate me and you don't WanNa work with me number to know. Like has. Anything ever gone smoothly when the three of us have to rank cultural artifacts in order. No I thought you would agree all the time. I listen we're just GONNA, have to work together on this. Okay. That's all just keep that in your head. Okay. The next twenty. Two Thousand Twelve movie draft on Monday together, some people need to get used to this energy. Yeah. Yeah. So I would say under normal circumstances I'm somewhat fearful of you guys uniting but when it comes to fincher. Chris and I have been aligned for a long time. That is that is that's the ven. Diagram of Chris and I you know he's optimistic. Good Guy. I'm a black hearted asshole but. Somewhere in between David Fincher we're going to talk about the top ten David fincher things. There's only ten things left based on what we've picked before. We do that though you know there's a piece on the ringer today by Alan Segel about all the UNMADE David fincher projects and perhaps more than anybody of his generation he gets associated with big name projects and then doesn't necessarily always follow. Through on them, I wanted to talk about a couple of them and maybe figure out which one you guys specifically would have wanted to see the most out of this list. We don't have to run through every single film I would encourage people to read Allen's piece but what is it about him? You think the gets him. So close to the flame before pulling out of a project Amanda. High standards. And also, it's interesting. You know reading that Great Alan Segel it's so funny how the and. We know this to be true. We just talked about how money dictates everything, but the industry is set up in a way where it's like never the person with talent and ideas making any of the calls and that David Fincher who is very demanding which I respect one hundred percent and really is only going to do things if he does it. His Way, and thus has to quit a lot of things because the circumstances in a creative project are lining up with his vision, which by the way in any creative project, a ton of development and a ton of people just being like, well, what about best he is seen as an anomaly and he is an anomaly because he's one of the only people who just like Nah no. Thanks I'm going to go do my thing. I to me I feel like more talented artists should have the ability to be like, no I will do things the way that I want you in my world. Those would be decision makers at least more of the time. But you know we live in the world of money. Chris what about you? What do you think is his driving the way that fincher makes us decisions well, it's similar to what a man to say about his desire for creative control mixed with an interest in still participating in mainstream popular culture. So I mean he is associated with. Tent Pole style blockbusters like for Instance Twenty Thousand Leagues under the Sea is something that he had been associated with for a long time that he was gonna make it with a variety of different actors. I think Brad Pitt was like the main person and that would have been a huge Disney movie that would have been like a giant effort on Disney's part. That's a theme park ride right there. So he's he's more I think when it comes to stuff like that the kinds of movies he gets associated with are the kinds of. Movies people are like yeah. But I have a couple of notes like could do something like this so that we could make sure the park ride isn't too scary or something like that and David fincher is like no make fucking terrifying fuck off. He's expressed very serious contempt over the years for people who have ideas but don't make anything. He doesn't really like that kind of a person you know even though I have some shades of executive in my in my professional life I also have a little bit of contempt for that approach however. I think Amanda and I have talked a lot on this show about a Lotta movies over time that probably could've used some of that executive guardrail and there's a there's a complexity to that issue when you're David fincher and your perfect, you don't need those people. But when you're less talented, you might need those people. So it's not it's not so black and white, the artist is. Always. Right here either I don't think. Yeah I just want to say in the sentence of in my world like talented people would be able to call the shots more often talented is carrying a lot of weight in that sentence and like a better meet my definition of talented as well. It's like David fincher can do it. Most people need notes. Notes are usually good unless you're genus. Let's talk about a couple of the projects here. So there were a few that were new to me that I hadn't heard about before as I was doing some research here the one that really jumped out, which was a very early project is called. The Sky is falling and the story is to discover firm proof that God doesn't exist in going drug addled killing spree and are pursued by dying Hitman who doesn't want the evidence to get out that's like a that's like a nineties movie game of Hangman. College Dorm Room seriously if you'll. So it almost feels like a fake finger. Fruits and Killing people man have. Thought of that. But. The thing is, is like when you take when he takes an obvious idea I wanna to a movie about the Zodiac killer it sounds like it could be really lame or predictable or Corny, and he's able to elevate it and I think that that's true of a lot of things on this list. There were a few others that jumped out I had forgotten that he was seriously considered by Madonna to direct truth or dare which was originally known as in bed with Madonna. There, there are a couple of projects on this one is one that was sean. I don't remember this both the source of one of our rare spats which was world. War. Z. Part to Oh. Yeah. Yeah. I was like Oh fuck yeah. Like fincher make World War Z. to and you're like, no, he should be making real cinema. And on that day you launched at. But the one that I have found that the three of us I think in the spirit of consensus would all three of us would love to see would have been seared, which was going to be his adaptation of Anthony Bourdain kitchen confidential, which eventually was sort of shadow made by Bradley Cooper as Bert but David fincher in the kitchen Hass to fucking happen I agree with this except then it would mean that we wouldn't have burnt, which is a cultural artifacts that we all are getting to revisit at some point of the. Plane Yeah. Yeah, he I think his version of burns which was supposed to be called seared I think would have been wonderful and you know the king of the insert shot who likes to shoot knives more than David fincher and the knife work. We'd see on screen there it would be incredible. A lot of these though. are very well known movies that eventually did get made that he was either hired for or it was suggested he should have been hired for and he never got the chance to participate under decided. He didn't want to participate in. We mentioned Spiderman earlier this week on the show I had forgotten that mission impossible three was on the board before J.J. Abrams. Came along Man David, ventures mission impossible three, the the dark cynic attacks Ethan Hunt I think would be fascinating. Cleopatra I think is probably the most famous almost among me's Amanda. What which of these jumped out to you is something you would have liked to have seen. I also would like to see the mission impossible three though. The three at the end makes me nervous I. Don't really think that he could ever do three of anything and then you have here at the end and this one is kinda famous that this strangers on a train update I guess which? fincher definitely like every other filmmaker like to hitchcock and it's the this strain of hitchcock that I'm interested in and that, and also the stretcher that I'm interested in and also I mean, can you imagine how screwed up it would be it would be like incredibly screwed up but in the way that I would be very excited for. That was originally pitched as a Gillian Flynn. Collaboration in the aftermath of gone girl, which would have been wonderful life speaking of Gillian Flynn. There's a you know they were also. Tapped to work on TV show together called Utopia, which ironically is now coming out I think in a couple of weeks Chris has utopia arrived this Friday This, Friday so That's a an adaptation of a British TV series that Gillian Flynn did go on to adapt and work on. That is Amazon and fincher was supposed to be a part of that. He was also supposed to be part of a show called video sin crazy. I think which was I think about the eighty s music video seen and MTV and music video, which, of course, he knows quite well as the CO founder of propaganda that never happened that would have been cool. Red Sparrow. The girl played with fire. We never saw the Second Dragon Tattoo Movie Steve Jobs Yeah with I. I. Actually am quite fond of the Danny Boyle Steve Jobs think it's bid underrated at this point what's him heads that we are but I don't know what else I learned today that the dirt the Motley crue biography was originally going to be a Fisher project. I think that would have been slightly different than the version we saw Netflix's which I was as not successful. I don't know if you guys ever saw that. No some of these UNMADE projects wind up popping up in other things that he's done like he had been linked to this adaptation of Torso. Graphic novel by Brian Michael Bender. About. Eliot Ness investigating I think the first American serial killer if I remember the log line correctly and I think a lot of that stuff wound up popping up in mind hunter. The one that I think made the most sense that never happens and lamented is the Black Dahlia, which is an adaptation of James L. Roy's book about the very famous Los Angeles murder that was eventually adapted in probably his worst movie. By Brian Depalma. The very stiff movie that you'd think to would be great at and obviously diplomas and influence on venture but. fincher. Version of that, and you can see a lot of what he would have done. They're not just in mind hunter but Zodiac, but that would've been interesting. Who is guy in Black Dahlia. Was Hartnett and who the black-tie had a one your guys Chris Aaron Eckhart. Joie. Yeah. Aaron Eckhart Scarlett Johansson Hilary Swank and MIA Kirshner. Indian. The questioner you don't hear that name very often. Yeah she she was the titular Dahlia as I. Recall that's her on the poster. Okay. So those are the any other projects you would have liked to have seen anything you want to see him do in the future. Well I was just going to ask you have the force awakens on this list of UNMADE possible. Is that real at the same force awakens? I'm thinking of reportedly he was approached by Kathleen, Kennedy to make a star wars movie and of course, he worked for. During the production of the original trilogy. and. I think the quote that he shared was that he was more of an empire strikes back on a guy, and if he was not able to make an empire strikes back kind of a movie, then he wasn't gonna be able to participate. CR You want the Venture Star Wars movie or you think that that doesn't make sense. I think he would make it look amazing. I don't think that they would ever in a million years. Let him make it. His best bet would be to do something like a spit often Disney plus but even then I I can't imagine like if him directing rogue one, the on spinoff would be pretty cool but. Thank it happen that Taller Breath Boba Fett show Chris Boba Fett. Isn't that just GonNa be the mantle or in Eventually so Okay. Time rank top tens. But first let's hear a word from our sponsor. Today's episode of the big picture is brought to you by Heineken. Heineken would like to remind you that it's time for seasonal beers. Again, that's right. If you thought a cold crisp. With something just wait until you taste. The Heineken Fall lineup is it a new product? No same great tasting lager. That's perfect. Rainy season as fall hits here at my house getting ready to invite my palace Ryan and Amanda Dobbins over for Cold Crisp Heineken on our back for Heineken original logger is made with pure malt and their famous a East which makes Heineken, and all season all time kind of beer. So pick up a pack forget it delivered whatever your style and drink responsibly. Was Up everybody I'm Jamal, Hill? Late. Jamilla, Hughes fans of the wire. So we teamed up with the Ringer to drop the wire way down in the whole analysis podcast with the hit TV series join us. As we discussed epic moments key cared a deep dive fascinating theories as special awards for every single episode of the show. So tap into the wire with us on the wire way down in the hold from the Ringer podcast network available now on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, we are back. We're ranking the top ten David fincher things. We've got to tears left. There was some controversy about where certain things fell in tears last time around. I'm just for the sake of conversation going to share the ten things and then we can hash it out I. don't really know how I'm going to manage this conversation. We're GONNA to do our best. The ten things for the top ten are as follows. The Jane's got a gun video by Aerosmith does horsh it Vogue video by Madonna. The Freedom Ninety video by George Michael, and then in chronological order seven, the game fight club Zodiac the curious case of Benjamin Button, the social network and gone girl. So Number Ten, I assume that Chris you're going to say we do three music videos at ten, nine, eight. No, that's not fun. Right. I don't know what do you think I agree that it's really boring in bad less making two three videos at the top. So I would like to start a point of order to reopen. Rakings and I will Chris if you'll support me in this bring minehunter up. If we can put the game back down at number twelve, it was an offer that was on the last five cast and you seem to open. A. Reaching across the aisle, and so I I would like to provide in addition chew annoying Sean which is one of my life goals and it's something I strive every day to do I have actual. Justification. I finished watching the game. And like I have to be honest like the game kind of annoying and specifically the game in the game is pretty annoying like they're just fucking with him and the fact that he doesn't realize that much quicker. It's just it just pests I. Don't really care for it. It's like Oh you put in some like know neon or black lights or whatever and like. I also, Michael Douglas figure it out sooner. Obviously, this woman is in on the game. What's wrong with you I I don't know it's good but it's not. Amazing. So bipartisanship. No No. No. No No, this is Susan Collins the smell. Actually. Offering me a olive branch and I'll tell you what I think. I would I. IF I were writing this bill, I would be saying Benjamin Button trading with with no but I'm not GonNa do that. K.. K Say right now don't put me in Susan Collins at the same sentence ever. We can make our political joke that one. Absolutely. Amanda that. I. Very. Much, no I I second your amendment, and I would also thank you my time to the to the great. Senator from Georgia. Oh Man. There's so many comparisons I could make to the crooks in the federal government I won't do that anymore. I'll keep this above board. This is about movies were talking about the Work of David. fincher. The answer is no, we're not moving. This is how it gets done. She offers a bill. Also getting. If you name a Damn Astra, my uncle, and then we go. Bang. That's how she gets done in this country you have to make an offer to me. That is what has to happen here we have majority here. This is not a democracy Chris who there's a ruling power I built the game. If I build the game, I own the constitution well, your game is really boring also. Okay. This is I. Don't really feel like my life is threatened. I. Think this is kind of monotonous. That's fine. If you're not going to do it, then the game has to be attend with an asterisk that Chris and I object to send it. Yeah. Amanda. You who has not completed the television show mind hunter wants minehunter go ahead of the game. I. Don't think that that's fair. That feels like shenanigans to me still seem more minehunter than I've seen the game because it's endless. So at least I can appreciate like the beautiful shots and once again. Huge Fan. Jonathan Groff can't say enough good things back up. So you know that's where I am. Chris you believe that that's just you believe that what what is being suggested here is just I don't care if she's seeing the fucking trailer on Youtube I'm getting what I want a moving mind hunter up band. They did the podcast is early I into the top five before we're done. I will I will make the trade I will make you I will I will let you I will let you move. Where do we land was thirteen where minehunter landed Thought it was twelve, hundred twelve. So you want to move the game to number twelve. And you, WANNA. Move Mind Hunter to number ten. Is what I proposed. Yeah. You guys know. You just did you just let the bots win? No, that's not true because. Now John Doe has the upper hand and I am in control of the rest of this game because that's the only way in which will allow this to happen. Right. Yes. Then I don't i. don't agree to that I. Do not agree you total control will then you need to find another all you need to make better care I was just listened I was being imaginative. I was thinking outside if the game I was also providing great content, I'm going to sleep at night either way so. Your hand and This offer at number ten you make this offer at number five. I didn't overplay my hand because you're so mad and also. And that's all I want this now I've jumped mind. Hunter is now jump the game and Dragon Tattoo Right. Yes. You feel good about that. I will I will. I I do feel good about this. You run the risk Chris of actually offending the sensibilities of your own cr-heads by getting mine hundred too many good films is that what you want? We'll? See. We'll see I think their problem I think I'm governing with the mandate here. Is this a ploy is this a ploy from big the watch to valorize the power of television over films? Is that what you're doing many people are thinking is because we're about to put three music videos including Gina. Of My. Daughter we're talking about Cheney's got a gun for second. GotTa. Gun, I understand someone dies at the end of it and some shady things bad things are happening. But the what is happening in that music video I literally asking what did her daddy do? Yes. I, understand what implied but the plot is Jane got a gun. The music video is very hard to follow. Also, the eighties were extremely weird. This is one of these generational things where I guess that meant a lot you guys is just like, what have I inherited? Again, these are classic tactics from a party with false morals attempting to shift the blame shift attention onto a non offending party Jane got a gun, a wonderful music video that obviously set the stage for the kinds of films. The David Fincher was going to excel at, and you're trying to take that music video down a peg in an effort to collude. To disrupt the the the future of this show I want I want you to seriously consider what you're participating in here colluding lightest shining I have been a painting your side for the entire run of this show I pledged to continue doing just that and also asking basic questions like what happened in this film thing that you just made me watch because we learned unattended episode I don't always know. It's not about what happened about how it happened and it happened beautifully and is this thing about? Knowing, her shot are okay. Sometimes, what happened also batters we believe in plot on this show I m pursuing justice and truth in the face of the Democratic Republic and you guys are what's wrong with our society but Here's what I'll do this. This is how gracious I am. The game goes the twelve. Johnny's got a gun goes to ten. Mind Hunter goes to nine. That's where we are. We'll go there. Okay. Great Clitoris what you are is in debt to me. So when we get down to the end here. I need you to have on my back and if you don't. I will call Jack Dorsey and have you and your whole team. Deleted from twitter. Okay. You'd be on speed dial. Okay. Hey Jack please spend this account thing is Sean is that you and I already fucking agree on David fincher so you're not giving anything up. So, let's find out. Let's go. Okay. So we're Jamie Jamie's got a gun ten. Hunter nine. Number Eight. Benjamin Button. made it that way. So that the boys we lost in the war, my stand and come home game. And I think that's actually a little high for Benjamin Button. Personally having just revisited it and not. Really. Connecting to only movie I've ever watched just what? So but I know that this is a big one for mandate. You mentioned Brad Pitt's hotness in this film. What else about this? You do you like? I think that it is. I mean listen Brad Pitt as baby look. So weird that whole thing is so weird but it. By twenty minutes and you're just kind of like well, now I'm watching like a tiny. Like wisn baby man like there is a technological achievement of it it also looks beautiful and I like that he's trying something different and I also kind of think. Benjamin Butman is a really great litmus test within or heads of like the people who put it at the very bottom of the rankings and are throwing it out and are just kind of like Newman it's fight club only as a are are not curious enough in my opinion. So I think it's more in terms of signaling the cinematic world is wider so you guys can put it at eight if you want if you want and I think you're slightly small small-minded but. That's fine. That's a just A. A brisk and dangerous accusation in the face of all the action that just happened previously on this podcast and every podcast we've done before it. I like Benjamin. But I think I don't think you can watch Benjamin Button and not at least be impressed by it. It is definitely the most painter Lee and formalist David fincher movie and one underrated aspect of that movie is that in many ways he gave Mahershala Ali interrupt G. P.. Henson there. And Really Marshall in particular was a TV actor who I think not many people had heard of and revisiting the movie I was like, Oh, yeah. This is definitely the first time that I saw this guy who now has to Oscars. and. So and that's been true fincher over the years is he if he doesn't necessarily discover actors, he finds ways to put them in incredible positions to succeed is obviously great with movie stars and I think he shoots people. So Luminous Cape Lynch in this movie just look. Young. And she's she's a dance teacher rate and those like the movement of all of that. It's about bodies in a very different way but a lot of the venture themes and interests, but you know without severed heads. The other thing? I thought of all when I was watching it was. It's I. Wonder if Christopher Nolan has big admiration for this movie because that opening sequence particularly with the clockmaker talking about why he made the clock to run backwards and then there's a battle sequence that happens in reverse in the film and it's pure Tenet I mean it's it's it's exactly what we're seeing intended and once again kind of ahead of the curve in this otherwise. Kinda. Painfully traditionalist film. I like Benjamin Button I've watched him more times than you have Chris but it's just It's I just think it's a little dull honestly. Yeah I like I said, I saw in the theater I remember really liking I just I'm going to sound like a moron but I really like the battle sequence and I loved some of the stuff when. Brad Pitt and Cate Blanchett were. At the appropriate ages and we're hanging out but the old baby. Young old and stuff just really didn't do much for me. As an old baby I speak for experience. I want to suggest that we have. Freedom Ninety vogue tie at number six so that we can talk about them paired because there I think two of the twenty five most important music videos ever made they released with, it might packs out in for modeling. Freedom. Ninety. Yes. Humans and you know like we were saying about Cate Blanchett nobody is better at shooting beautiful humans, David Fincher, and what these music videos say to me and I'm sure some people listening to this like how could you possibly put a music video head of mind hunter? That's fine I. have some fun. We're listening to a podcast. fucking relax. The reason I think they're important though is because they're all about iconography rate and building up and destroying iconography and I think that that's a big part of what he's trying to do with movies as well. He's trying to. Identify whether it's you know masculinity or consumerism or our life on the internet or even the idea of like wealth and how how wealthy people get bored and the things that they need to do to entertain themselves. He wants to kind of like burn those things to ash in the same way that he burns George Michael's leather jacket and explodes the jukebox destroys a guitar kind of tearing down in tandem with George Michael, the image that. He built in the faith video a few years earlier likewise with Madonna Madonna nobody has better at kind of molting a version of herself and moving on to a new era. Then Madonna, and the way that she does that really is by enlisting collaborators who can help her visualize the new phase, and sometimes that comes in the form of choreographers or fashion designers or you know stage designers for her her shows, but most of the time. It's with photographers and filmmakers. That's how Madonna evolves and she latched onto fincher in a big way and I think she's made more videos with him than with anybody else and vogue is i. mean you know in many ways obviously borrowed from a culture that was not Madonna's culture or David ventures culture and that's been litigated overtime over the years but I think without the vogue video, we wouldn't have the TV show pose. You know we wouldn't have the kind of like the the ascendant part of that history in the mainstream, and so that's kind of my owed to those videos which I think are really important. What what do you guys think about them? I just think it's fun to watch him free. Of befre story I mean to Mantis point at all think he worries too much about narrative when it has music videos. So it's pure image making. And within those images, you just see his. Depth of perception when it comes to texture and movement and light and and contrast and stuff like that slow-motion shot of that leather jacket lighting on fire. You can watch these videos as silent films and almost get the same sensation that you do when you have the music play. These are two fucking really good songs. Yeah I mean I would just say for me at least these two music videos kind of create the visual language of the ninety s like as an era in terms of what I learned about what is cool and and what music videos should look like and what images look like i. mean literally you know the this is my MTV Eric was a bit later to it and also I just the supermodels of the ninety s meant a lot to me I got caught up in that somehow inasmuch as freedom ninety is like tearing down the economics fee of the George Michael. Part wine or whatever it's definitely also. Making, or furthering the icons of of those supermodels which. I just followed a lot for better and worse. Yeah, and just with a very simple decision to have those supermodels be the artisan video be the lips lip synching the song and. The idea of removing George Michael from that video seems obvious. Now, it's been thirty years since that happened but at the time fascinating and radical and even just the way the video starts you see mouths moving and you see Linda. EVANGELISTA. To is just luminescent in that video. But when the voice start singing, you see that now from you assume it's George Michael and it's not it's a it's a male model, and then we cindy Crawford and Tony Campbell and Christy Turlington and all these famed icons. We don't really have models like that. Now Amanda I know you talk about with the carly clauses of the world on jam session sometimes, but we don't really have that super-duper model anymore no i. mean this started at the Peter Lindbergh photo of of these women that sort of inspired this music video concept is of pointed to as the moment when all of these models started. Modeling took on a lot of different iterations, and then at some point you wanted it to be a celebrity who is selling your thing because of their recognition and now it's influence. A whole thing now cares about the history of modeling but it was a it was a fun moment and and because they were models. They it was image focused which can have its limitations, but it was it was about this image as art and a body is art. Okay we're moving to tear A. We have five movies as is only just on a movie podcast despite Chris's Machinations in amend is utter betrayal. Here the five movies seven fight club Zodiac, the social network and gone girl. I'll be honest I. Know what I want my number one to be and I don't know the rest i. don't even know what order the rest of these movies should come in. So I, WanNa give you guys the opportunity to make your pitch for your top five, and then maybe we can negotiate from there. Are we working back from one or are we working up to one? Let's work up to one. Let's start at five. Is there an obvious five here for you will? There is for me personally, but I know you're not going to agree with it and I'm willing to make compromises up top but I'm not willing to compromise on my vision for number one. So I I think that unkind things we'll be said at number one. So. Chris what about you? So this is really interesting when you're playing a game like this, you're also try to guess what the other person is thinking, and it's not like you're playing a game to win because this isn't the same thing as the movie draft were will half Lake our personal thing valued over the other. It'll be a big picture thing by no I probably underrate gone girl compared to the two of you. But I think what I'll do here number five is in the interest of collaboration has put seven here. That would be my number five as well. It won't surprise anybody. and. Not because it's not good it yeah. No these bad. The rest of these, all the rest of these are fucking great. But I think some point it's just like I can't live with seven in my life for very long. That's just I. Just say that I probably like on a personal like my Patriot I would probably put Ganga earlier but I think seven, five, hundred, seventy, five. What does the address of your patriotic just for the Sierra? It's Bobby Wagner dot tree data. So you want you guys are saying seven how did this podcast get to this place? Man I feel terrible. What do you want to you do this every single time where you act aggrieved? Because it's raining outside like you tell me what what the weather is supposed to be, what should be at five years. You don't I think it should be club. Guys like you and I know. This essential to our survival and the hunter gatherer sense of the word. Know. What are we? Consumers. Consumers, we are byproducts of lifestyle obsession. Murder Fine Poverty. Concerns me. Celebrity magazines television with five hundred channels. Some Guy's name on my underwear look. Okay. That's fine with me but I really thought we were going to have like best about that. Well. Let me just make my case and I agree with what you guys are saying, which is that there are no there are no bad films here that this top five is. You I think you could make the case that this is toe-to-toe with any top five of any living filmmaker. Really I. Mean it's up there with even Francis Ford Coppola, top five you know what I mean. It's very, very strong group of movies that are deeper than they seem despite him. Being this Avatar for a kind of mainstream movie going. The thing's fight club is extraordinary as it is and as much as it. Took my breath away as a kid when I first saw it I think I was gonna say it was a senior in high school in the movie came out. So that was an ineffective time to see a movie like this right when I was getting deep into Howard Zinn you know when I had my mother Jones subscription when I was figuring out how I really didn't like the world and how the world was organized. As I revisited as I get older. It's not that I think is any less true or any less powerful or any less amazingly made, but it's just a polemic. It's not really a movie and doesn't really work that well to me as a movie because the Jig is up, you're just looking at the choices, the movie making choices, and you're not as invested in the story and. You know like is that a huge criticism of the movie? No I could watch this movie every day but I don't think that I think it's a little bit too obsessed with its decision making and not necessarily obsessed with its story so. That leads me to believe it's not as powerful I'm willing to hear gone girl at five personally Chris because I think that that's that would be four for me and I think that they're kind of neck and neck in that respect and congress kind of goes in the other direction where I feel like girls a little bit too obsessed with the story and the story I actually think girl and clover to our our partner foams because I think they're the. Two films that have been most tussled over in terms of their meaning at in terms of how you're supposed to watch it, and that each each one of us probably has a different specifically a different read on girl and a different read on fight club if you were like, okay tell me what you think of this movie and what with this movie makes you think about so it I think that they are. They're paired in that sense. I think they'd gone girl just kind of continues to grow in my estimation as the years go on whereas like fight club now is a little bit more of a museum piece for me that being said I disagree with you about Fight Club as a movie like I don't think it's like a gimmick I think it is actually. A amazing black comedy. Pretty thrilling action movie in certain places and features two of my favorite performances in all of venture filmography in. Hidden. I would also throw Helena Bonham Carter. Yes credible. and. FUCKING MEATLOAF I mean. and. Jared LETO FACE Amanda, what what do you think about? Well, what do you think about fight club? Have you have you? Did you watch it for this conversation? I didn't and I'm sure that that will upset people I assumed that you were going to put it much higher. I honestly thought that there was going to be a number one for fight club because I I understand that it was. A real. Like a turning point of sorts and features career, and certainly it was part of our whole nineteen ninety, nine package I. Think you put it like you strong arm into the best movie of Nineteen Ninety nine slot in terms of what it reflects it that moment in movie making and also in. Your generation of young men Shaughnessy Congratulations And I also listen it. It's stars, Brad Pitt who I love and I love about Helena Bonham Carter in. It's certainly memorable I, find it get the and like a little self aware and it's a little like Look at us we're making a cool movie. You know you can see the tricks as you said, John, you conceded decisions and I just don't have as much patience for it, which is personal preference rather than I think always a reflection on the quality of the movie itself. I'm really not trying to take away from the movie itself I think it is quite an achievement but. It as we're picking again among five excellent movies and it's just not. It's not the one I revisit. Would you. You wouldn't have considered fight club for number one Chris. And I had a second. I never would have I I wasn't that was never thinking that nine is slightly different. I had fight club at three. At three. Okay. So I mean I I. Guess we'll go seven number five and fight club number four Chris and I have spent a lot of time talking about seven you know. It's it's tough. I don't even know how to how to navigate this because. Seven and fight clubber two of my favorite movies of the last thirty years. Full Stop. But there. Are they as good as these other three movies that we're GonNa talk about I. Guess is the question. Okay. Well, I was willing to give you guys gone girl at number four. I've been thinking. something. Positive. Maybe. It's time. Now. Is literally the worst. A new start for us and for me I would have we'll purpose here a child is not a hobby, not a hobby. An Inspiration Four hours ago. I didn't know it was kind of a fight. Couple has baby to save their marriage. Save I, love girl I. Think it's fascinating movie about AFLAC. and. No one is more interested in anything having to do with Ben Affleck than me except for possibly Juliet Lemon. And I think the first time you see that twist it's really exciting. I also said the eight that moment like the girl book and movie moment a lot with you. Oh, thank you. Know like something that you really enjoyed appeal to live your interests, who is like a cultural moment where a bestseller then became like a big movie with a big movie star and the huge director it was like, yeah no I mean and that was very exciting and I and I love that. He did it I still don't think the movie gets there with a Rosamund. Pike character it doesn't and I i. think that's because David. fincher is interested in a completely different thing in that book and in the actors before him and I think it's fascinating that he pursued that but I just don't it is a little. It gets away that character gets away from it a bit I think and it's a bit lopsided. The cuts are hilarious by the way. I, don't know if you guys watched it for this podcast, but it does like commercial fade out every five seconds which I know is very funny. listen I love it but I think in terms of being like a whole movie. Number four feels good to me. That's such. A good point about the the fades it feels like he is making a comment on like dealing NBC shows the whole movie feels like an active. Comment on that, which is one of the great things I mean. The same thing is true of seven. The same thing is true of all his movies he basically takes these genre movies and then he tries to make them as extreme as possible in their depictions of violence or terror or what have you, and then he basically satirizes them while making them exciting and I literally nobody else that can do that. That has that control of tone I think that seventy five Ganga at four feels reasonable and then that leaves us with Fight Club Zodiac in the social network. Fight Club at number three is what you said. You had Chris I. Think that seems reasonable. That's as high as I would feel comfortable. How about that? Well, the language of diplomacy. I don't want to trample all over whenever we're GonNa do cycle on the rewatch walls and I'm sure we'll do it at some point down the road hopefully post vaccine so that we can all be together. So then, Chris, and I can episode by beating each other's faces in by. Four lie on your hand. Oh yeah, that's right. Our fathers the models for God's. Yeah I mean we're the first generation raised by women, right? Important to note that. So do that leaves us with the top two Zodiac in the social network with victims and suspects now. I'll just come right out and say it I think I think Zodiac is number one. Darlene ferron worked at Vallejo House of pancakes on the corner of Tennessee and Carroll. Arthur Leigh Allen. Live in his mother's basement on Fresno St. Door. To door that is less than fifty yards. CETERA. We talked about social that were. Many Times on this show. In fact, I think most of All three of US agree it's the best movie of the two thousand, ten's Meet S and it is I don't think it was much of a debate I still don't think it's much of a debate that it's the best movie twenty tonnes. Zodiac was released in two thousand, seven I think Zodiac is in the is in the hundred greatest films of all time conversation and. I. Watch it again this week. Great experience. Wonderful Film. I think Chris agrees with me and I think Amanda doesn't agree with me. Is that accurate? That is correct I came prepared to lose unless I don't think it was any surprise of where The Chris. Would just put his life on the line for Zodiac. He's made that pretty clear I, also just want to say that Zodiac roles I also watched it is amazing Chris Remember. I was in a very bad mood and I was texting you about my various complaints with cinema. And including the fact that when I this is a true story. This is what it's like being Chris. He decided to get these tax and the fact that I. LOOKED UP ZODIAC and preparations rewatch it, and I was reminded that it was like two hours and forty minutes and I was just like God damn it I I I have a lot going on and that's long and I'm really surly. Let me tell you who is up until midnight on her IPAD in with the air pods in bed just raft and freaked out finishing Zodiac because those last forty five minutes like are you kidding me and in terms of just like filmmaking and engaging you and just just the pure dread and There are some really terrifying scenes including that scene in broad daylight, which it's like everything. I ever wanted David fincher to do in terms of abandoning his like. Dark. grimy style, and then he just turns and he's like here you go man this is the most terrifying thing that's ever been put on film which I respect. But yeah, referring to a Lake Barry Esa Maria. Yeah. Yeah I mean Jesus. So. I like I have told a respect for it not even respect for it. It's amazing. I'm fine with it being number one I do vote for the show network as A. Not a descent vote would say, but a vote of honor for just. GonNa live forever and I like that movie. started. So many careers I think it got the most out of my favorite screenwriter who? Who Love but you know? Can be a little self-indulgent himself and I think can be a little self-indulgent and they met in the middle there and I think it. gave us a language for understanding one of the most powerful, not necessarily in a great way. Entities of our time. It's just like we will be talking about that movie fifty, two cotton. It's incredible and also it's so fun to watch. So I think fit. There is a world in which you say these are one a and one B. we're not gonna do that here because the fun but I think social network is an is A. Incredible movie about the world and Zodiac is an incredible movie about life and to me there, there's a little bit of you can feel that. Zodiac that that social network is in service of a screenplay and service of an idea and in service of you know a producers who have asked him to make this film and he thinks he can do a great job and then there is a degree about Zodiac where I feel like that's the closest thing. To like a a statement of purpose that we get from fincher where he is like this is what life is actually like all of the things that you try to do the world is against you. And it is going to eventually erase you from from existence and every archetype that I like movies are in Zodiac the cunning detective, the Brainy Puzzle Guy. The news like crusading Newspaperman, all of these people up against this basically faceless nameless. Always, ghost like presence of the Zodiac killer, any get fucking wiped off the planet or live on a houseboat drinking vodka and playing. Atari like that is what happens at the end of your is like you think you have something to offer the world. You think you're doing good in the world and then get fucking stepped on and there is something pure and so clear about about what Zodiac is about to me, and then also it's both of these film. Just, are so rewarding to rewatch over and over and over again somehow. There so odd in their pacing they're so unique in their world view and like the the way that they look and I, I find myself returning to Zodiac probably once every. Nine to fifteen months or something but. Yeah I mean. We've talked about these movies so much but. Those are the differences for me. Yeah. I. Think in the same way that athletes have a prime I think filmmakers also have a prime a lot of filmmakers they hit their prime in their you know their late twenties early thirties in part because they have. You know they're like rappers I've been waiting my whole life to make this, and in many ways seven is like is a is a debut rap album, right? It's like extraordinary. He's putting all of this stuff. He's been waiting his whole career to put into a movie, but it's he's he's a little. Bit more of a later in life person who realizes these things come in succession Zodiac and the social network, and he doesn't in different ways. The social network is pulses and kind of fast and scored that way. You know when you're watching it, you look at the regatta sequence, for example, or you look at the kids diving off pool or you look at the coding showdown or you look at the dinner with Sean Parker for the first time all of these incredibly memorable sequences they cut fast they move fast now they have energy. You think I deserve. What do you think I? Deserve your full attention. I had to swear an oath before we began the step position and I don't want to perjure myself. So legal obligation to say, no. Okay. No. You don't think I deserve your attention I. Think if your clients want to sit on my shoulders and call themselves tall, they have a right to give it a try never climate that I enjoy sitting here listening to people lie and that's not necessarily what we think of when we think of venture. But Amanda to your point, it's an iron sharpens iron thing having to keep pace with sorkin script it changes the kind of filmmaker he is in the same way that ventures. I don't know kind of like decrepit attitude about people. Help Sorkin a lot and I it soften some of his bullshit and I love Sorkin. But he he brings one too many cheery speeches to the table when he's making movies and so it's fascinating to watch that movie in comparison to Zodiac which I think is repulsive in its own way but is is on a long com walk that is never boring as several different films the protagonist of Zodiac changes like two or three times. Who Do you guys because I want to ask you who you guys relate to the most out of the Zodiac triumvirate and who do you think fincher relates to the most. Paulie of re Robert Gray Smith or Dave Dombrowski I relate to avery the most but I don't think that that's ventured fixes to hear of that movie. I I don't know who he I mean. I Suppose Smith. But Yeah I would say that grace methods the. Ultimate. Hero of that movie I mean, that's just like a structural answer as well. Right like it ends with him and it's all like funneling towards him writing the book that would inspire at least part of this. So and I think also everyone's life falls apart but you see his life fall apart the most. Primarily because claw seventy has to be there playing the thankless role, but we love you Khloe so yeah, I would say that he is the protagonist he's the protagonist, but I wouldn't say that that's who. Identify I don't know who I don. fincher likes bullet. I think he likes Tashi but I am not sure that We talked a little bit in the first episode about some of the stories from his sets and it's really interesting how the making of Zodiac sort of mirrors what happens to the people in Zodiac I was just watching this interview. It was like a route actors roundtable with like Ruffalo and Edward Norton a couple of other people and Ruffalo was talking about making Zodiac and he was like. We were on ninety Esotique. Of. A Walk and talk and one of my first days at work and he started walking over to me and I thought to myself. You know what they're going to have to pay me anyway. They got the wrong guy. I, know they got the wrong guy and obviously he's finally figured it out. So just walks by RUFFALO. Moves an extra two inches to the left guy behind me and he moved them like two inches and then he turned around and walked away patted me under. Thank. You know what this dude is like. I'm only ten percent of the frame and this guy's gone for one hundred percent. But all of the guys in that movie I broke his venture Downey Jill and Ruffalo, and that's what has them in the movie and. There's like an added kind of element to the strife that happened on the set of Zodiac or the alleged straight for whatever that makes it almost a little bit more spicy me. Yeah let mean look at what the kinds of projects that those guys made after this not they're not entirely restricted to things like the MC you but they definitely leaned into the MC you a little bit harder after that. Well, it's. Like he's got a point to prove ever since then. I agree. Yeah, I agree I think that Jalen Hall in many ways went out to show the world that he could withstand these kinds of roles and performances. An fact like is proving himself by pursuing them as an artist whereas down is like. Its. Iron. percent if anything. I. Think I think that this is A. A really good consensus I. Think I wish I was a day of Tashi and I'm really Robert Gray Smith and I think we're all kind of Robert cray Smith's in this line of work ultimately a little too obsessive a little bit have spent a little bit too much time thinking about these things probably spent a little bit too much time ignoring some of the things that. That matter most this is the rare you know wife who has to deal with the character feels almost self aware. You can almost feel khloe seventy satirizing that character and that's the whole point of the character in many ways don't give too much credit to the thinking there but. Seven gone girl fight club. Social Networks Zodiac. Can't do. I don't think he can do better. It's an amazing thing. Chris. If you had to send a message to your. Eleven followers and their thousands of Fatah accounts. What would you want to say to them at the end of this show I you're seeing you're seeing your heard. Amanda now that you've betrayed the sanctity of democracy on this show, what do you? WanNa. Say to your followers. Or here's what to say to you. Chill out. That was actually. Pretty calm and diplomatic and respectful top-five process and if I had to do. The pod you know yeah. Sorry I brought you content. That's that's the Biz well, thanks for supplying all the content guys if you like content like this, which was the three of US hectoring each other over made up games please tune into the big picnic. Can I ask one really quick question about the draft? Yes. Of course, how many draft picks have you been penalized for your past crimes will all depends on how many you'll be penalized because you also committed crimes in the last episode. So if you'd like to broker a deal with me off line without Amanda I'm willing to engage you in that conversation since that kind of politics were now playing on this show because of your bad faith. I just wanted to say that I almost texted Chris about my nuclear option last night and I didn't because I do everything in broad daylight. Okay. But also what I would like to prepare like. Like a fascist. Frayed of the consequences. Have we met the call? Is this news to you? Okay. I spent the whole first part of this podcast being like David fincher is my hero because he tells everyone to shut up. My proposal for the two, thousand, twelve draft since both of you. Air It a bit in two thousand eleven is that you have to pick the two thousand twelve movies that you use in two thousand and eleven for the two thousand twelve draft as well. So I would have to pick Oslo August thirty. Yeah Okay Yeah and your sister sister. What that was I. Didn't do. It was a twelve release I believe. So Chris you can wipe the slate clean if you wanted to trade on that. Weight. So it's either we have to pick those movies again that's not good podcasting. We don't want to talk about the same movies again I see now that you also have. A very interesting I. think There's some complexity to while you're suggesting Amanda because I was roundly accused of category fraud for choosing the raid as Brahma. Where is I just was sloppy Okay. I thought that there was also another one that you that was a two thousand twelve cabin in the woods cabinet in rain which. Fest was since I don't since I have better things to do with my time remind no-one accuse you of category fraud four. X. Men First Class. We can discuss that but I stand by that. We can discuss it. Oh, can we? Okay? I invented the game do prequels sequels. Tron. We're doing a podcast. Isn't okay. We're all stuck in our homes looking at screens is it not tron? I would I would open it up I would love to hear from people as to what they think y'all at. You know what they say should be I'll let you guys. You know they say the other thing on that I was going to I don't really know how you do this in public but I did think that we should start like aside pool of like what will Chris Weirdest Picky? Going through two, thousand, two, thousand, twelve left I was just like I can see Chris doing this I can see Chris doing this you know but also it's always it's not what you expect. That's the joy of it. So maybe we can figure out a mechanism for that given that there are no new movies coming out in movie theaters for the next several months we're going to have to get our rules. In order here. So maybe we will relaunch the movie draft with twenty twelve and we will lay out even more detail about how you can and cannot play the game. I take full responsibility for the mistakes made thus far though is full accountability. It's important. That's that's right but I I say that out loud because I know I'm playing with cheaters no, you gotta you gotTa Build Trust with your Audience Sean that's. Great Bobby Bobby just suggested that we make a movie draft constitution. Yeah. Well, we know what happens to the constitution in a country like ours it is assaulted on a daily basis. Thank you so much in Chris we'll see you guys next week. Please stick around now from my conversation with Miranda. July. Very delighted to be joined by Miranda July Miranda. Thank you for being on the show. Yes. Thank you for having me. I want to jump right into Jillian air. I was curious when you started working on this film. When did you start writing it? Now? I was just looking at my first. Note in my evernote file and it was at the very end of Twenty fifteen. So I guess like two thousand sixteen is is when I started but I had some but the idea was just starting. Yeah. Do you know what prompted that idea. Well Yeah I mean I I woke up to it I woke up to this that that family like the two women with the long hair and the man just kind of in my a half awake mind and At I just started taking dictation on my phone just. kind of like this feeling like I was pulling on a threat and I was just gonNA keep calling and not judge. or whether was good or bad and and I, did that on an offer about three days in a really annoying way I. Remember when you're on I was on a family vacation and I kept being like hold on and then. Turning towards the wall and mumbling into my own. Did. You know that it was a film right away. How how how do you decide what what kind of medium to put your ideas into? Right I wish. That was more magical but truly the moment I'm done writing a book I'm like wanting to have a movie idea if I don't have already. So it had to be like because. I wanted to make a movie now that kind of just alternate. So. When did that develop? When did you decide that you're going to do the back and forth routine? Well actually I guess when my first movie me, you're never like. Rick came out in the world and I remember there was kind of the. Flurry of like what are you GonNa do next and I was really clear that my big prize for that movie for myself would be if I could sort of Parlay into getting this manuscript of short stories that I had written kind of over the same time as as Manu if I could get that published and my feeling was like. I don't want people to think I'd just like this indie filmmaker because it's a it's like a bigger thing than that in my mind like I had a lot more room than that and I didn't want it all the sudden get real small just because one thing happened to be you know break break out in this way, and so I really made sure not not booklets called. No one belongs here more than you and and Kinda like now there's room for these two things and then. I also kept performing and making art and and that was just my own I mean literally no agent or anyone has ever chaired or I mean not that they don't care. They're lovely people but it's like you have down that idea yourself because it's not really. The way of the world Yeah. Right now, no one says you've completed your first film. Now it's time for you to publish your short story. I. You Know I. was I was reading through the the book that was released a kind of compiling and and recounting your work from earlier this year and I I really liked seeing the list to end all lists that list that you wrote when you were very young and it's so interesting to see you I mean how old were you seventeen or eighteen? He wrote that and you you were you know it's obviously you have all this creativity and you're trying to figure out where to put your ideas but it's also very organized and strategic you kind of understood. Promotion publicity you need technical aspects to make your things, I was so impressed by that like is are you still that way? Yeah it's funny. It's called callback because, of course. The first list. The beginning of a never ending list Yes exactly I, I'm constantly making lists and re Lake I mean I will have the the to do list. You know there's the big to do list that sort of ongoing and then the one for the day, and then I'll make a little one that's like just for the next two hours you know to constantly be like well, what is the most important thing now yeah, that's like racial for me I i. so I so relate to this what what do you think motivates that why how did you become a person that Kinda like ambition or is it the desire to be busy in a? Why do you think you develop that instinct? I think it's the combination. Like big ideas that seem. Kind of esoteric. Not Real like the very definition of Lake. An internal. World, and then a real strong desire for things to be real for things to light GATT made become objects become sharable. And so the list is the. Conduit between those two equal and very. Faces. What does it list look like before you get ready to make a film. Then what are you? What are you doing in addition to writing the script? What is happening? Ray It's a lot of You know there's each each department you know what becomes departments that? Began as like a folder of photographs seen that that show like costume in light and color and. Locations and you know, but that gets whittled down to like. I need to talk to Jennifer Johnson about you. Know the stripe on all dolios sweatshirt that I think it's maybe needs to be dirtier you know. I mean so many little things and they are at that point. I guess the strange thing that happens as your your to do list becomes like the to do list of a community it's like a small town is built. To sort of churn through this to do list as an entity which is so. Incredible I mean I'm I work alone so alone most of the time that when it scales up and it's very expensive. So you can only do that for a set amount of days but when it does it's It's it's really wild I mean it's how I imagined like politics must feel or something. Yeah. Something where you are part of an organization you. Yen. Just like with elections you've taken. Know. Pretty significant amount of time between feature films. I was curious before you started on this one. Did you find that it was any easier? Any harder to get people interested in giving you money to make something like this because this is a you know it's a it's a fairly big film. I feel like even based on the previous two you've made. Yeah. Yeah and I did like part of my excitement about making a third movie was just that this one would be a little bigger not not crazy but I was like. Look here's an idea that I'm not in that means that I can cast female leads and I can. In this story was sort of built to I. Don't know you don't write an airplane flight. You know if if you don't think you're getting. Like. Many millions of dollars It was yeezy such a wild thing to say I. I had gotten a a fan letter from Dede Gardner plan be about my novel, the First Batman and very pure I mean she just loves. Literature and poetry and and surreal reader, and but I was writing to Jillian her at the time. So I remember thinking. Well if you liked that who knows maybe I should send you the script when I'm done and I did and she came over and. Said let's do this and she already had this relationship with Anna Purna Plan B. in an opponent. Were working together at that time and. And so it just was fully financed like that. and. You've been such A. Fiercely independent seems like such a bullshit phrase, but it seems like you've been fiercely independent artists for your during your career, your life and. Do. You still think of yourself that way even when you're getting many millions of dollars from. The Brad Pitt Production Company to make a big movie that you WanNa make with an airplane. Right yes because. They didn't know they weren't there the whole time I was writing I was totally alone writing whatever I thought was best. So and then. To be honest you know. Day also agreed to like I had complete creative control Dede Gardner sat on the set every single day, but she didn't give me even one note she should just stay are. She likes to be there. In case anything truly terrible happens. And So I. Mean it felt as free if not the most free project I've ever done everyone was totally Antonoff for better worse I mean. Part of the reason I'm so interested in this particular aspect of it because I feel like the film. So much of the film is about money and. How money is power and what it means to people in the pursuit of it and Why did that become such a an important theme of this movie? It's funny. I've done a few projects in different mediums just the last few years that all had ninety. Kind of conceptual. Never. Never. Quite means what money's supposed to mean, but it's a it's a holder of all these feelings and. It might I mean I can only guess because the saw comes from my unconscious and have no idea. But I think it might have a little bit to do with like I'm now at a point in my life where I should have money. It seems like, know you imagine when you're a child? You know that there's a there's something with this point in adulthood and Sometimes I do sometimes I don't. It's you know I'm an artist I'd had to commit to A. Completely fleeting relationship with with money Fight. In some ways, you can kinda have it. If you work with it as a material, you know like you can. It has an authority to it and you can have it in another way by invoking it, and maybe that's more interesting. That's hard for me to unpack but I think that makes sense. You mentioned that you're obviously not starring in the film. How did it make directing the movie different for you from the free this too. Yeah it was. Just pretty fun I mean find that's. Terrible word it's never finish but. I mean I thought like well Oh now, I'm not going to have these days where I get to kind of be like a child actor gets to be sort of irresponsible like and I sort of enjoyed some degree that balance of being the most responsible person and then all of a sudden Nino totally you're responsible for just a few minutes while the While we were rolling and the truth is that's quite hard as it turns out Now that I've experienced something else it's much easier to be one person, and then you're also they're kind of hold that for all these actors and. And they're also going to be. Way Better. Because that's the only thing they're doing. They're going to be like utterly devoted whereas I could never be besides the fact that I'm not like. You know I do the job, but I'm Evan reached. What you know it's I want Evan Rachel Lip. Show. How how did she come to be part of it? I well, I. Live in the most literal sense like I asked my friend Carrie Brownstein he's like, Hey. Rachel wind she's like a dude, do you want me to text her? And I was like, could you? And then. then guide she was sort of. I mean that's a telling moment when you reach out to someone. You kind of know. based on their response whether there's something deeper here or Whether this is just like. A job and she she kinda matter responsive like the time come like you've come to me now you know and And it was. Yeah it was like substantial from the go and we had dinner together. And I was kind of. Like give me a signal lay. You're quite lovely and feminine in a way like is there an all dolio in there and and? Yeah without a doubt I. Mean there was by the end of the night on like. Hina giddy with the secret. Of you know. This person within. Evan. She, she definitely transforms into someone. We haven't seen from her before I was so curious about Debra winger who don't see that much anymore and you know I think it was pretty choosy and it was so cool to see her in your film. How did she come to be a part of it? Yeah I mean she was on my Fantasy wish-list like you get with a woman of that age. You know you're you're looking at kind of. People you grew up with his stars like really larger than life. Figures and Wildly. I realized she followed me on instagram which can mean nothing right? By in her that, it actually did mean that she knew my work and he'd read my books and I think that. That doesn't have to happen like big Richard Jenkins and ever heard me before I wrote a fan letter by. It helps if it's going to be this. Really hot woman playing like a woman with no makeup this longer like with a lamp like you're GonNa, make the leap. I think helps that she. She's just like, okay. And this is super uncomfortable but I'm going to kind of give you the of the doubt here and. I. Think he's pretty, pretty amazing I wanted to ask you about doing some of the. I don't know some of the bigger. Production decisions. You know you mention the airplane and I saw that you know that behind the scenes photos kinda fascinating and you know the obviously the of dot is like the bubbles and everything that's happening in the film and. What was it like to just kind of scale up just a little bit from a kind of technical and filmmaking perspective you know how did you did you have to have a much bigger crew to accomplish some of these things? Was it more of a challenge for you? It sort of just delightful you know it. It just means that you can kind of slow like you're like, this is how the bubble should be the suspect color. This is this is this is how fast they should Mu and then there's like. This effects. Company a peters. Beds just like really they're gonNA it's their entire job all day long to get that to happen exactly the way you want it to happen as if it's you know as if you are building an airplane or building or something that's GonNa exist for more than a day I mean, it's so crazy. What we do in movies an the labor and the care put into these leading things but So. Yeah. The feeling is like you can just go without stopping and you get to work with very, very talented people and each area. and so you get to kind of keep having your dream There's some part of me that will always be ready like. Like I did. Run A bubble bath with some red dye in like just double check. Could I do this myself? Like if I had to like I think scrappy enough that there's always the backup plan of like. Well I should at least be acquainted with bubbles like I. Don't I always do my home. Sure. I also really responded to the sequence in which the family kind of play acts normalcy. You know I think that's like such a striking incredible part of the film and it feels like the movie is you know very connected to your other two films this this kind of difficulty in desperation to connect with other people. I was just hoping you could kind of talk about that idea and not sequence in particular kind of what you were going for their. Like from an artist point of view like I'm someone who's devoted my life to making. These worlds that are real but obviously. I believe they have the power to actually make real things happen within people or I wouldn't. Work so hard on them and so in a way, that's that's what happens in not seen. It's like a little movie, right? It's like maybe if we feel this for just a short time, we can be changed and It doesn't work like that, but it is sort of the turning point of the whole movie like the whole movie is changed by that moment kind of. To my mind starts to tunnel in word. and. So it is. It's like life that way it doesn't do that. Then you wanted it to do but something else happens. That's. How. Do you feel about the film being released into this? Very. Curious and sometimes very difficult period in history. Yeah. So not when I pictured At first white everyone else I was. Very. Disappointed and sorry for myself and you know. And then I guess what shifted. Is. Our conversations with people only seen the movie within the candy back. They didn't see it at Sunday answer in early hot or anything. So they have only ever been this person this sacrifice elating quarantining trying to serve a higher. This generic person and And that has made me come to believe that I made this movie for us now. I know that sort of. To magical. But that is the fact is it came out now not some other time and And I'm kind of own. Like I. I don't WanNa. Have made it for us before we don't get to have it. We're not ready. I don't want US later like. What we will been through too much will need another movie that. Seems Okay for now, what is success for you at at a for a project like this? Are you the kind of person that is reading criticism and looking at box office receipts? Do you care about that stuff when you're making a movie? I mean box office won't matter for this one I couldn't tell you. About that on any of mine I think. All I want to know is just the initial. Is. GonNa play. For Room of people are for for people in front of the computers like I just need a few cheap pieces of evidence and. Sometimes, it happens on a large scale and sometimes you're like, you know it. But only for this kind of person you know whatever like it's not. Different degrees of success. And so I think. You know like a a woman sent me a tax yesterday with a toothpick in her mouth. And you're just watched them be. and. It was so moving to me she you know she said, she really loved it but the dot image was like. Oh. It's just worth so much and and It's I. Don't really need once I read like the requisite. You know for reviews or something like I don't go. Past Fat. Unless. It's like something truly interesting that people have drawn attention to or something. Because but I get it from individual people hopefully for years I mean I just. Someone just sent me a letter about a book of mine. And I'm like, okay now, I'm finally like that was the best. Best Response to that book came out years ago. You know. So these things hang on and you. Try, not to be too quick to design you know what it was. You've you've made so many different. Different kinds of art I was wondering if there's like a a format or an approach or a medium that you've wanted to do, but either haven't had the chance or the means or something that you would want to do in the future. Yeah I used to have things like that, and now there's so many things like on my immediate plate I'm always just desperate to like. INISH the next five years worth of things. Mike. My husband reminded me the other day. He's like, what about your your leg variety talk show you. I think that might have been like A. Person In their thirties I D I don't. GotTa now. But. Yeah. At the time, there were more things like that and now now i. I feel quite deep in with. like I wanna be a better writer you I wanna be a better filmmaker. So yeah. It's more like that. Because you finish the film where you're going back to a book now. weirdly. I. Did I started. A movie project radar. Such a good experience with this one I wasn't like burnt-out. Dow Is Great. Let's do another one and so I I sort of simultaneously began my book that I'm writing. Now, that is my real find front burner project, but I, do have a kind. Exciting. Thing that I get to dip into now and then But yeah that I cannot speak about the. You're not going. Tell me anything about coming a mile or Maranda we end every episode of the show by asking filmmakers. What's the last great thing they've seen? Have you been watching anything good lately I've been watching this There's this artists, Ning Ian Chain. Like a video. Video artists but he uses like game engines to make these worlds that are so fascinating to me I mean they're like they're like movies but they're. They're also sort of painting like So in terms of what the lead is the last great thing that was in front of my face not working we see. Can we see that anywhere can just look it up Yeah Inching C. H. E. N. G. I think Yeah forgetting the name, all his word, there's only lake. There's like maybe four pieces and you can just watch some online. He's like you know like an art world. Artists. Not Awesome. That's that is a unique and solid recommendation the likes of which we don't usually get. So Miranda, thanks so much for being here and and congrats Jillian. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you to Miranda July and thank you of course to Amanda Dobbins Chris Ryan and Bobby Wagner few like anarchy. Please come back to the big picture. Next week, we'll be having the two thousand twelve addition of movie draft. We'll see you then.

Chris Amanda Dobbins David. fincher David fincher Disney Chris Ryan Hunter Sean Fantasy Brad Pitt Los Angeles George Michael Fight Club Nile twitter fincher twenty twenty Madonna Madonna Netflix US Benjamin Button
The David Fincher Rankings, Part I

The Big Picture

1:29:37 hr | 9 months ago

The David Fincher Rankings, Part I

"Today's episode of the big picture is brought to you by Heineken Heineken. Original lager is made with pure Malt and their famous a yeast which makes Heineken and all season all the time kind of beer we're transitioning from summer to fall hopefully here in Los Angeles a perfect time to get out on the back porch and crack opening Chris, Heineken pick up a pack for having delivered today and drink responsibly. I'm John Genesee. And this is the big picture, a conversation show. That's right about the man, the myth. The director, David Fincher, joining us to celebrate the great filmmaker is the big pictures Edgardo sovereign, and we are diluting him all the way down two point Oh three percent. It's Chris Ryan what's up but you better lawyer up asshole. Chris I'm I'm very glad you're here Amanda there are a lot of reasons we're talking about David fincher this week. What are what are some of those reasons? Can you help us understand its season? Really it is the twenty fifth anniversary of Seven, which apparently you guys covered on the Rewatch ables this weekend once again, re watchable is a really flexible definition to eat his or her own. But it is a fantastic film. Later, this fall is also the tenth anniversary of the Social Network, and of course, at some point this fall hopefully, we will be seeing Mac from David venture and Net flicks. So it's Sean it's your time and I just want to end Chris. This is really it's both of you together where interests align, it's like a it's at Chris and Sean Christmas. And I I'm happy for you. I want you to know that it also turns out. We were wrong to have faith in humanity, which is Rene's is also pinterest. Turns out he was right in. So many ways in addition to this podcast and the second part of this podcast. Later, this week, it's David fincher week on the Ringer Dot Com. So we're really throwing our weight behind behind fincher and dumb I. Think we should just talk with some generic biographical details about the man because I think some of these things are overlooked when we explore his work. Well, we're. Going to do here on this episode is basically talk about as much of his work as we can, and we're going to intrude ringer fashion rank. Those things were going to rank things that are not just films not just television shows but music videos and TV commercials, and maybe even some other Ephemera over time. But fincher is a fascinating byproduct of the one thousand, nine, hundred, seventy s new Hollywood in. A bunch of different ways he was born in Colorado, but he was raised mostly in Marin County in northern California and he grew up with a very interesting next door neighbor named George Lucas and as a young boy fell in love with filmmaking watching a documentary about the making of Butch Cassidy and the Sundance kid he moved to Oregon as a teenager he directed plays in high school like so many. Filmmakers he worked as a projectionist at second run theater and got a chance to see a lot of movies in that work. Then at a very young age, he got a job working for John Corey at Americans Oh trope. Then he got a job at age of twenty two working at industrial light magic and got a chance to work on. Indiana Jones and the temple of doom returned to the Jedi. Becomes a fulltime commercial director at sub aged twenty five after this notorious commercial for the American Cancer Society, which will talk about a little bit here. By nineteen ninety one at the age of twenty eight, he was a feature filmmaker entrusted with a major franchise and alien three. So Chris. You and I obviously we we adore we worship venture. In many ways we've written about him collectively. We've podcast about him many times, but for the sake of posterity, what is it that you connect to about? David fincher. pitchers really different than I am. I like to think of myself as a pretty nice pretty optimistic but not particularly careful person. And I am very drawn in are two things that are a little bit or a lot different than that I. Think I'm in I'm really drawn to movies and filmmakers who dominate me and make me feel subservient and he pressure on me and Heap Lake. Illicit huge reactions for me whether they're intellectual or emotional. And he does that and I think that the thing you see from him and the thing is really cool about revisiting his work and reading interviews with him watching interviews with him and listening to his director's commentary listening to other people talk about him is that you just realize that not a single thing you sere here in one of his movies did not was not considered and it was not carefully thought about and it was thought about to provoke something in you and I I'm not that way. You know what I mean like I think I am a lot more like let's let it rip. Let's have fine. Let's see what happens. And it's really interesting that I'm so drawn ms not hardly the most interesting fincher is my reaction to it, but I'm so drawn to somebody who is like, no you need to have your cufflinks look like that in the back of a frame because otherwise someone's I might wander in the wrong direction that I wanted to and so I just feel like I am in the presence of a master storyteller when I'm watching his movies Amanda before I get your thoughts on Christie think that's why we were friends. Are you fascinated by my organizational power? Definitely. When people are like, why do you like? Sean, I'm just like dude. It's way. Wait. We shall sheets, people asking you why do you like Sean? Many people are asking me. Amanda what about for you? You are like me in many ways Taipei organized. A bit more obsessive. And a bit more. Spit stormier and Chris. Ryan a bit more cynical. So what is it about venture that that you connect with? The same things but from the perspective of seeing myself or what I would like to be I mean for me it's control perfectionism obsession which are all offshoots of control. As you know, my therapist likes to tell me but. Yeah someone who is just on it and I think like, Chris, I respond to the presence of this idea of being in the presence of a masterful make everything is excellent and we'll go through filmography. He does a thing that he does a lot of things that like I Amanda Dobbins Aesthetically don't really like I mean you know my guy never shoots like in broad daylight except for one very scary scene which we will. Talk about but like this shadows and grinding s and everything's like two and a half hours long, and it's like always about sad boys and I'm just like you know those are that traditionally I have no patience for but my guy is just excellent at what he does and everything is so intentional and so considered and you know exactly why he's doing it and it's undeniable and I have so much respect for that level of. Perfectionism and and and control I would love to be able to control any part of my life or world the way that he is able to control. His filmmaking process and I think. We'll talk about that approach because that other people don't always like it as much and I think I also relate to the fact that a lot of people are like, David. French. was really good at his job but what an asshole and I'm like. Well, maybe maybe I. That somehow and he's like he's doing it for the asshole. So to say, which is not a particularly invoke thing to say right now obviously, you have to walk line with it but Yeah, there's nobody more on it. In my opinion, you know what the thing is is I was watching 'cause we watched seven for Rewatch ables obviously even going back through a lot of his work for these pods that we're going to do this week. He kinda means other other movies just look like Shit. You and you watch one of his films. And then you try and go watch something else. Notice how you feel Notice how? Long it takes you to get used to movies that are not made by in. If you've been in the zone where you're watching seven and panic room and fight club, and even these films that maybe are have flaws or maybe these movies who just like are kind of popcorn films or whatever, and then go try watch another movie like that, and you will see that there's just A. There's just a there's just a huge qualitative difference between the stuff they makes and the stuff ninety, nine percent of other filmmakers make your he's he's definitely the form follows function filmmaker. You know he has it's not just that he is a perfectionist in his meticulous and it's not just that he is consumed by obsessive stories and in pursuit of control all the time it's that he also. Has the skill he has the craft he has the I. He sees sees what things should look like like I am a control freak, but I have no skills and so all that manifest in is spreadsheets and podcast outlines and so if you have talent, if you have a point of view and he obviously does and we'll talk a lot about that here as well it can manifest into. Something special, and you can feel when you watch movies huge weight of influence from a number of different filmmakers especially hitchcock whose been talking point on this show in recent weeks and filmmakers like Allen. Kula and Stanley Kubrick of course in Ridley Scott and Spielberg and Lucas to some extent in that whole generation of new Hollywood in the seventies filmmakers but he does really his version of those. Things he he doesn't feel unlike say to Palma who is actively paying homage to hitchcock his films. I never look at a adventure movie and then something is derivative. He maybe nodding to Klute for example, but you never look at it and think, oh, he ripped that from Klute and he does it in a couple of different ways and I wonder if it's his kind of his training that. In some ways commodified the way his things look at starting out as a music video director starting out as a commercial director you have to appeal to a kind of commercial sensibility in a way that maybe some seventies filmmakers were not as interested in Alpha, cool was not trying to make commercials for sneaker companies. He was he was you know making a kind of transgressive modern art that just happened to come in the cinematic format. And so fincher develops all of these things, these styles, these approaches, not just the sort of the materials insert shots, not just that really repulsive style of editing that he's a fan of, but he has this like is blue color. Palette. The you can see in almost all of his work key is always doing that Ridley got thing of smoke and wind and fog and rain in all of his stories because he's like. I don't know submissive to the elements in a Lotta ways. The way that we all are and I think that's also like pneumatic touchstone in his stuff is you just can't control the world the world controls you and you look if you look at all of his protagonists. They're kind of. They're all kind of trapped. They're all kind of stuck there kind of fucked and. I think that's probably the single biggest reason that I relate to him. As I, relate to the utter powerlessness, you know the the degrading quality of life a lot of the time when it feels like things are happening to you and Chris. You're such A. Such a high spirited guy you know you're such a good guy I think of you and I think like a decency a warmth of friendship. And It's it's Kinda shocking to me that you are so willing to be subservient to his work. Do you have you have you interrogated that personally? Yeah. Well, I mean I I I love that line. He has about when he talked Affleck and doing gone girl and his pitch was basically this is a guy who gets his nuts putting a vice in the first ten minutes of this movie and then we just tighten it for the rest. And I love watching that happen to people I mean that's happened to me who hasn't that happened to who hasn't felt like what you've had your nuts and a vice metaphorically speaking. Personally do you WANNA get here Chris Listen No judgment okay. I've seen seven a lot then. No. But like I think that that is keeping pressure on people is where like tension comes from you know nobody wants to watch a movie where everybody does nails it you know where everybody's just like, Oh, I got it. That was there was no obstacles. There is no, there was no hurdles. There was no. Pitfalls I. Just nailed it like nobody wants to see that didn't and he seems. To take an enormous amount of delight in doing that to his characters and unlike most other Hollywood filmmakers. Often does not reward them at the end. with with surviving the game. Yet there's a real disdain for everything. But the characters and the situations and really any sort of weakness that I really admire and I relate to the the characters who have their falls trapped in a vice like you don't. You don't sympathize with them. It's almost like well, you got caught and now we have to watch you suffer and. You know, maybe that is just a reflection of my own cynicism of, but that's often how the world goes and he he doesn't back away from that at all and I find that really upsetting a lot of the time like the some of these movies are delightful and find, and you can feel the fact that he is also like being the puppet master and having lots of fun with that and I enjoyed that the light and that lead that Chris Ryan a alluded to i. mean it's just another form of perversion which we will talk about at great length on this podcast but. The sometimes, it's fun to watch and sometimes it's really upsetting to watch but you have very specific feeling that things are not going to go well and that everybody is being held a little bit in contempt and. I don't know I guess I get off on that. If here you know here, we are out of data traffic though that we. there. There's a line of criticism against a lot of filmmakers is usually about how these filmmakers feel about their characters whether or not they over valorize him over, lionize them over identify with them or whether they have contempt with him. That's here about like a lot of like. Early to mid Devon Contemporary Coen brothers movies is you don't they don't love their characters there. They have disdain for the people in their movies. You never really talk about that with venture. It's almost like, of course, he does. He's doing to them. How can you like them if he was doing good and do these things to? Yeah, I don't think you can watch seven which obviously announced him too many people in the world and and really worry about that concern too much. He does not. He seems more interested in Hell on earth than he does the sympathies of his own characters He's just. He assaults them in. He doesn't make fun of him though that's the thing. He doesn't mock people necessarily I don't think I don't. I mean he I think he has some contempt for mark. Zuckerberg. You know and what Mark Zuckerberg represents to the future of our society but I think. Maybe maybe that's not true. Maybe maybe he does mock the athlete character in gone girl or maybe he just mocking athletic I well I mean that's one of the great questions in Weil of gone girl so much is I mean it is a it has its limitations but as a movie about Ben Affleck extraordinary and the experience of being Bene- and Christmas, talking about how he got Ben Affleck to be in the movie but I still don't know whether Ben Affleck really understands the movie that was made about him and how much was he was in on the joke or in on the commentary and how much it's happening around him and that I mean that to me is fascinating. One thing that is also fascinating to me about fincher is the fact that he has not made a feature length film in six years. It's been six years since gone girl came out and gone girl in many respects was his biggest hit and earned the most money of any movie I believe that he's ever made and it was you know he's well known for this man. And almost bludgeoning style of control with his actors and on his sets and Amanda. As you noted, that's not exactly invoke right now to took quote a David fincher music video and I I wonder if I don't think that's necessarily the reason why he is not has not been active as a feature filmmaker during that time in that time, he has helped oversee the launch of to Netflix series and really was kind of at the vanguard of the TV streaming revolution with House of cards. But if you talk to people who are in the film industry who know. David ventured demands total control over almost all aspects of moviemaking and studios are less willing than ever to grant that control and so the kinds of movies that he's wanted to make, and there are a great many unmade David fincher projects we. We will talk about I think in in the episode later this week but. He's tried to get a lot of things off the ground in recent years and hasn't been able to get in and ultimately it seems like certainly there are budgetary concerns because they don't make the kind of mid level thriller that we love on this show that he excels at, and also because studios want control of things, they want to be able to run things and David fincher wants to run things. So I'm curious what you guys think about kind of his standing in the modern movie culture make notwithstanding because we haven't seen it and you know if you think there are maybe some other reasons why he hasn't been as productive as movie maker in the last half decade. To hear him because he doesn't get offered those movies for the exact reasons that you're saying but I think I think he'd be willing to participate I mean look he's not like a snob. He makes adaptations of bestselling novels and huge stories, facebook, Gillian Flynn bestsellers, and you know. If you if you. If somebody was like seven is coming out in three months. You'll be like that's going to be a hit like the idea behind these movies is usually incredibly. Mainstream. Accessible mass-appeal movies I think the real reason is that most movies that get made and get pushed now are made with an idea towards making several. Sequels and several and making them part of a franchise and using them as part of a launching pad for a larger three, hundred and sixty degree multi-platform effort and. That requires the participation and sign off like so many people. And ultimately, David fincher does not want to probably. Shared his vision with Kevin. Or whoever you know what I mean like David, your might make an incredible marvel movie, but he's going to make it the best way he wants to make it not so that they can also do for. God of thunder in three years you know like it it it's not. It's not about like setting anything else other than the way. The best way to tell the story men, what do you think? Why do you think he is not as much in the center of movie? Culture? Right now. Well I think everything that you guys said is true and I just want to say like Kinda onset strategy aside, just the ability to be like, no, we can't do it my way. So I'm not going to do it that that's inspiring to me. That is the definition of success like David fincher made it. That's exhilarating I. I would also point out that he's been making minehunter and seems pretty involved in that and that sure seems like it takes a Lotta time definitely takes a lot of time to watch it so. And he has. He was at the forefront of. Prestige directors switch into TV and kind of making premium tv what it is so. You can read that a Lotta different ways that sure seems like he just has more control and possibility. In td right specifically with mine hunter and you know things take time. The church seems like his projects take time on the flip of what you're talking about Sean and Amanda you know we. There's one conversation about like why isn't fincher more part of mainstream filmmaking these days hasn't made a few in awhile and obviously. I almost feel like is like An I'm sure we'll talk about this is is like he did House of cards and mine owner for Netflix and was like now pay me back. Yes I get to make this passion project. But. We also don't really talk about him in the same ways that we talk about Tarantino, Anderson and some of the other. Oh towards that he is either generational related to or just in general like the content the current crop of like quote unquote great filmmakers I feel like his commercialism oddly sets aside from those people you know I, was thinking about probably the four people we've talked about the most on this podcast both you two and three together would be PTA Quinton. SODERBERGH adventure? The latter two are actually really interesting. To think about together because Soderbergh is what we were talking about the beginning, which is sort of like let's try it. Let's try it. Let's do this. Let's try this like maybe I'll do this and then I'll set it up over here. But then I'll walk away but then I'll come back and edit it and all this stuff that he's just like messing around with. And Venture is is. Equally commercial and equally hard to pin down an equally hard to assign A. Sort of like. Narrative. Psychological steamatic worldview to Much more precise, much more. Like stingy with his with this product I think but I was wondering why don't we talk about him? The way we talk about Noah. Back. The way we talk about somebody who is just like Oh like I have this emotional relationship to this filmmaker and that's what makes it great. Because his movies don't deal with emotions which what makes them good but There is a repression and a distance that I think is unbelievably powerful in David ventures work and I told you guys. We would talk about repression before we started like here we are but I think it's harder to have that emotional Omega Machado Divorce Reaction to like seven or fight club or even the social network and you know the social network is an interesting balance of nature's complete lack of emotion Kinda in. In conversation with Aaron Sorkin Mega sentimentality and I think that's what makes it so much excite you know. So exciting is that find that balance but? I don't know what are what are you supposed to hang onto feeling wise from David fincher movie besides like dread and cynicism, and we've got to talk to the big pictures number one feelings, merchants Sean fantasy yeah. I mean, this is why this is. This is my guy is I think he's as interest. He's more interested in psychology than feelings and psychology can be a very powerful tool in your filmmaker and he's able to pack and explore consciousness without necessarily dealing with the. Explosive external experience of emotion and obviously repressed gentleman that I am I can understand that in a very acute way. But I think also I mean I think the point that you're making crisis is. On the one hand a bit absurd in the context of this conversation because for me when you talk about directors like he's at or near the top of the list of over the last thirty years and is very important and we have kind of valorize that Quartet on the show in part because I think those four white men represent kind of like ven diagram of our interests as a trio and even Amanda I. Like we can kinda talk about Soderbergh on every episode and have fun and talk about Tarantino in every episode and have fun and so you know there are other filmmakers. You know we love Credit Gerwig on this show but she's only made a few movies. You can't talk about the her work and fincher has a pretty long lifespan for an active filmmaker. You know he has ten feature films as these two TV shows. I wonder if he has more in common with in emotions merchant. Steven Spielberg though then he does some of those other directors in his kind of contemporary cohort that you're talking about because of that mainstream accessible approach to storytelling. You know he's he's telling thrillers. He's telling docu-dramas about the most important companies of our time. He I mean he adapted a Stieg Larsson novel and he planned to adapt three stieg Larsson novels so His incredible interest in reaching as many people with his darkness as possible is such an interesting. Kind of inversion of what we expect from a serious filmmaker and I while he never got his chance and probably never will get his chance to make the fantastic four or whatever you know. He was he was up for Spiderman the two thousands and he made a pitch his pitch for Spiderman is legendary because he wanted to do old man Spiderman, he wanted to do Peter Parker is a photographer in his fifties over the hill, but still has his later bowers. Creepy. Bizarre, it's so fucked old man with shit coming out of his hand. So strange, it's bizarre and but and he wanted to do that before the Comic Book Movie Revolution I mean the Sam Raimi's spider man is really the first generation of movies as well before the MC you and all that stuff, and so even then he was trying to divert the mainstream. But he still wanted to make a spiderman movie. He still had an idea for spiderman movie and I think that that that really speaks to me that desire to be masked but on your own terms is so interesting and Mangga in many ways I think on paper feels like the first time maybe ever. He has gone outside of that. It really feels like a one for me to the th power because you know it's it's obviously this Netflix's film is a a sort of bio pic of sorts of Herman Mankiewicz who was the CO writer of Citizen Kane along with Orson Welles and the film was written by his father. Jack. who was a journalist who worked for the Associated Press among other places and this has been a passion project from an years for fincher and it doesn't have that girl with the Dragon. Tattoo Social Network, you know gone girl you know what? It is right away kind of kind of experience and I guess it's a little bit unclear to us. If he made those movies in the two thousand, ten's in part because it was just harder to get movies made in. These were the kinds of movies that get made and could apply his interest to the game and and and fight club movies like that were a little bit significantly more esoteric in terms of like the stories that they were trying to tell but. I I just find Manque as a as a cultural object in two thousand twenty to be really really interesting not because it's a Hollywood history, not just because it's fincher but not is black and white, but because it's just not mainstream at all and I, wonder if there's going to be similar effect here where. Similar to the Irishman where some people fired up and they're like, wow, the new film from David Fincher I just finished watching the social network. I can't wait and then they're confronted with a lot of an old screenwriter talking about William Randolph hearst that just. It's very curious choice but Amanda were you what do you think is animating that the bank decision making? Well I I do think it's a little bit personal which you know is interesting. It's obvious a screenplay written by his father and. You know. The, if he does ever talk about emotions tate's grief and I think Benjamin Button in a lot of ways `bout grief and trying to connect someone in because that's not how his movies don't like to confront emotion head on it has to be through the lens of like Brad Pitt as old baby but. This slightly like. It I think given the the nature of the the origin of the scraps. This probably has something to do with some form of emotions though I'm fascinated thi which emotions that they are and how they express themselves. I do also think that like old Hollywood was a terrible racist exploitative place like there is. Plenty of room for everything that we know from David fincher aside for maybe like you know what's in the box like in this movie and who knows I wouldn't put it past him. So I'm I'm very curious to see how the future of it all expresses itself. In manque, because I like I don't think it's just GonNa. Be You know Lala Land I mean no one thinks it's going to be land but you know what? I mean like that. Rosie. Vision of old Hollywood I think there will be a lot of grievances CR YOU and UNMAKE Amal in on bank I I'm very curious to see if this is his silence if this is The one that I've always wanted to make movies like this I don't think he's that guy. He's a commercial and music video director and all the movies he's made. are essentially genre pictures blown out to the nth degree. So I would imagine that this is more about. Him Getting to make a movie that's obviously very personal in its origin, but you know. The making citizen Kane is like a pretty. Gripping Story and the characters involved in it or it's got all the stuff that he's interested in it's got power. It's got credit got creative genius it's got. People steamrollering each other. So I I'm pretty I'm pretty fascinated but I don't necessarily think it's going to be. He's never struck me as the kind of person where it's like were it not for the machinations of of capitalism he would be making Jim Jarmusch movies like these are the movies he would make He's he's a he's way more. An accolade of really Scott and John. Cavities and I think that will probably inform even as more personal quote unquote artistic work. I agree with you to get down to the business of arbitrarily ranking things that he's made over the last forty years. Yes. Sure. So you know in the past we've we've chosen top fives and built hall of fame's and we built career ARCS and We're going to do something just a bit more expensive here because there's a lot to go through in fact revisiting. The commercials and music videos of David fincher yesterday I realized that he has been one productive son of a bitch show last forty years. He's made a lot of stuff and we think of the movies as the totemic works but he keeps himself really really busy and I think that that partially answers the question I was asking about kind of what the last six years have been like for him because even in that time he's made music videos and he's made a lot of commercials and he's directed several episodes of television. So he's he's got a lot under his belt. We're GONNA go. We're just GONNA choose twenty five of these things even though he's got well over one hundred articles of cinema on his CV overtime. And I think we're just going to have to debate a little bit. Goes where and this will be an opportunity for us to kind of talk about each individual piece and. Even though I think movies are much more valuable than all the other things that he made. There is a lot of value in some of these smaller more contained objects and how we choose to rate them or not rate them. I think will lead to some interesting conversation and I want you guys and I know I don't have to encourage you to do this. But I want you to completely upend whatever I have suggested here as we go through this format. If I have something in the mix here and you feel like I've got way too high or too low, you can cost me live on this podcast if you so choose I, want to start by putting alien three at number twenty five. We have to do an autopsy what I told you. We have to make sure how she died. And I told you. She. I'm not so sure. have to. See. Inside. Your disorientated after system. Very. Very good reason perhaps, you'd like to share. So that, we can open cleanly. With a movie and we can talk about maybe why this movie is not an iconic film and a little bit of history which I think will open a portal to conversation about where his career went from here. You guys like alien three I do yeah. I like I like all the alien movies though. You like alien resurrection. Yeah I like all the alien movies I mean like on a on a baseline of like do I like alien movies more than A. Kissing booth yeah I like alien. No shots at kissing booth budget say `I double teacher. I'm pretty into the alien movies. I know why you have this year and I respect the hustle and I definitely don't want to start this with a big argument. So I'M GONNA. No No. So, let me ask a question. Sean would alien three be here. If fincher himself was alike I almost quit moviemaking after this and they took it away from me and never again and whatever. No it wouldn't okay I understand that. He's effectively he effectively told his story. And that led to the way that we feel about his work and when he is more exultant about an experience, your swayed to believe that it's more successful in some respects but I also alien three is just not really that good. Even the assembly cut, which is the version that is closest to the vision that he had for making the movie which was released I don't know ten or fifteen years after it was originally made nineteen ninety-two is still. That good, and it's it's got a reach a high bar because. Liens are two of the greatest movies ever made they are. It's one of the greatest horror films ever made in one of the greatest action movies ever made an alien three is kind of neither fish nor fowl. It's a little bit unclear. Very, troubled movie for a lot of reasons, there was a filmmaker who is attached to it who is going to make it, and that person dropped out and then fincher was brought on board. At the time. He was a very, very hot music video director and he had started propaganda films, which was this music video company. Winner of many Vm as he was, you know highly regarded in the commercial directing space and he's got this mediocre script. He's got an incredible cast an interesting idea kind of prison colony planet where Ripley crash lands along with as you know more F- or at least the makings of Zeno Morph. And he gets to do some interesting things and there are some cool shots in this movie as there are in all David venture movies. And he gets this. Performance at Charles Dutton and Charles Dance and Sigourney weaver is always good. But the movie is I weirdly kind of stiff to me and not very propulsion as far as alien movies go. And I've been I've been tricked into the into believing the hype on it being just okay. Amanda you'RE GOING TO DEFEND ALIEN THREE No I don't I mean narratives are important. I am with you on that and I think like directors absolutely and especially directors who are much control freaks as David ventured. Is. Shape our understanding of their work, and also like I this. This kind of movie isn't really my jam and David Fincher gave me permission not to care about it and I'm rolling with it. Okay. Does thrown off a cliff win Charles Dance dies. So. Yeah, that's forty five minutes into the movie. It's a good forty five minutes though yeah, it's great. It's solid the. Interested, to see like what the rules of this game are going to be because like alien three is not. A great film, but I do appreciate alien three more than like a lot of gap commercials. Okay. Kid say that the rules of the game are you Chris Reiner here to have a voice and to challenge Sean? Why do you this pep talk every single time? Buddy. I. Abide by the rules of the land and. That's why. David. Fincher acolyte that's right. That's why you're you're. A soldier and A. Generals leading the charge. That's right. This is the. Number Twenty four does somebody WanNa make a suggestion from the from what I've got here on the lineup. Go ahead General Albans. Commercial on here I thought that would be a funny thing to do. Yeah. Also I had never seen this gap commercial on it involves a man like putting like doing golf and like, Oh, I, see why Chris likes this this gap commercial if this goes where four Wait a minute. This is fucking bullshit this. This. Is. Ten thirty seconds of anything filmed Oh my God then put it higher i. It's not number twenty, four it's not number twenty four. That's fine. I look forward to hearing you explain the merits of of commercial, which is not even among my top ten gap commercials which I have in my head. But whatever briefly, for context, this twenty fourteen campaign called dress normal that David fincher was brought on board to direct guess during the production of gone girl I don't know where he finds the time though my. Favorite of these commercials I assume it's Chris's well takes place at a driving range where a model is dancing to a nineteen fifties pop song while a guy in a leather jacket hits the driver off the tee It's a commercial that makes no sense and it definitely rules. I'm not sure if it was harder than other things on this list though I think it but what do you think Chris what do? I, think I feel like a deep connection to the to the characters in this commercial. I once love the woman who is dancing in jeans and I'm like cool jeans and then I'm also like your boyfriend seems pretty cool too because he's got good form off the tee. He shot it in the city of industry in one night I think in the middle of the night, and it's just like a perfect commercial. Let me ask you something the two of you as people who David French work. And as people who liked golf, do you think that David French our respects you a as golfers Commercial I don't to take away I, don't. I. Don't think David fincher would like me. That's not what this is about. I really really want certain filmmakers to like me I call David Fincher to think I'm pathetic I expect David fincher to know that I, have a golf training aid called a G. box and he should want me to drown in the Pacific. Ocean. Because of that. Okay. As long as you know that that that I'm fine with putting this commercial wherever. Okay impertinent question. Do you think adventure has ever held a golf club in his hands? Absolutely I. Think he thinks they're cool and also really remember uses one to hit Stellan skarsgard in strategy to so I. Think he thinks it's a useful useful weapon and aesthetically pleasing. How do you think he hits at Sixty degree Wedge Chris eubank soft stiff? Yeah. The. Attitude that's right. Yeah. That's a lot of people said. I. Amanda I'm surprised you're not writing for this. This is a beautiful commercial captures in essence of American Life Golf notwithstanding that is essential to his point of view. He's all about he's he's a brilliant commercial director because he makes products into beauty that is your job may be the happiest people in his entire films work. People aren't happy. They're like I trust this gap commercial. I'm like you David fincher have never danced happily in the street. Also, you've never met a golfer like not this is all made up and making fun of these people. That's you know that's also also have a connection to the gap commercials of the late nineties and early two thousands. Remember the one with Claire Danes and Patrick Wilson. That's a great while all the Khakis ones and I don't know that the actual joyful ones and this to me is what David fincher does very well, which is make a mockery of everything on the screen but. I don't know trust it. Let's talk about a couple of other commercials in. You can try to put them in context here I would say that company for whom fincher has shot. The most is Nike and has worked with Kennedy over many years in collaboration with Nike and he's got a handful extremely memorable Nike commercials. One. Similar to the point about golf I don't know if David cares about sports at all. In fact, I would be surprised if he did and yet. He has this extraordinary power to capture. In action in a way that very few people have over the last thirty years Chris. You know the fate leave nothing commercials when you pointed out to me many times over the years you want to explain that one. Yeah it's a it's a commercial. That basically purports to follow the life story of Ladainian Tomlinson. Shawne Merriman, and Troy Pamela. Pol Hollow Malo as they grow up from childhood. Through. College Indiana. And to your point Sean. I don't know if he's like I could see him being like a weird like I love the giants you know like I stopped watching football when when like Mark Mark Left But I think he understands what makes sports bigger than sports. You know what I mean he he looks at those is like. Greek gods or like characters in like a Greek epic or something that they're going on this incredible journey and that's like his ability to understand what makes. Different stories. Interesting is why he can make social network social network should not be an interesting movie. It should be just like a court case to be a bunch of dicks yelling at each other about who gets credit for something. He's able to dig deeper and understand like what makes those things objects of? Fascination. Do, you want to put this twenty four this commercial would you prefer to put the instant Karma commercial which you know Nike is famed for. Using the music and the images of the Revolutionary Sixties and seventies American experience and. Helping them using them to sell shoes and they've done it effectively over the years they've used the Beatles revolution they have used famously in one of fincher spots, John Lennon's instant Karma, and it's an. Incredibly. Captivating thirty second commercial for buying sneakers. Do you think that the leave nothing fate leave nothing spot should be there in over instant Karma. I fade should be over in. Sakaria, I agree with that. Okay. So instant Karma goes to number twenty four. We'll just get that out of the way I mean, it's not the last time we're going to be talking about Nike 'cause he doesn't make he also doesn't just make these. EPIC. Greek mythological visions of sport. He also has like a sense of humor to which we'll get into some of his later work. I want to put the House of Cards Piloted Number Twenty three do you guys feel about that? Gymnasts is right on a president former ago Pennsylvania, he did his duty and delivering the Keystone State lessons. Now, they're about to put him out to pasture, but he looks at me. Yeah, I'M GONNA make. A bargain here the size. I really like. Make a fool myself about mind hunter and a little while so. I, you know I think. The legacy of House of cards and a lot has become increasingly complicated but in terms of a pilot and in terms of what that meant television that was. A big deal I like I remember just being like, what is this on my TV? If I remember it was it debuted. My husband was was moving and we just had it on and kind of watch the whole thing and the the moving actually a was delayed for a long time because I was like now, I need to watch another episode of this. So I think probably given everything we know now this is where it needs to be I still think the pilot is an achievement I think so too obviously. Chris talked about on the watch lot over the years and. What a significant. Entry it was until the world of television and similarly to to the sort of mainstream work that he pursues like this was a British series that. I think is just like a very chewable kind of unimportant but also about the most important things in the world kind of television and there's a whole wave of other kinds of shows that were happening at this time you know a lot of the Shonda rhimes shows seemed to have a similar kind of soap operatic energy about people in extraordinarily serious positions of power Obviously Kevin Spacey in the Center of the frame of this show complicates its legacy as Amanda was alluding to but purely as a filmmaker, an a maker of things that people WanNa consume like this is just Heavily proposed like the flintstones vitamins of TV you know it's just very very consumable and maybe not as good for you as you think it is. Yeah. I mean it starts binge watching in a lot of ways and that's where we certainly I learned this behavior that has had benefits and also its drawbacks, but it's certainly significant. I don't know what percentage of of scenes and David adventure movies and TV shows are just conversations in a room but it's pretty high. You know we think that there's a common feeling that like he is this technically proficient or that he's a flashy director but really I think he's mostly interested in shooting. Conversation scenes, interior conversation scenes, and the that's almost ninety nine percent of what house of cards is. So it was. A lot ways perfect material any let's. Spacey Chase the idea of I'm gonNA play this like it's a Shakespeare play I'm going to do this in like a very hammy big way. It's got a really good supporting cast. So yeah, I mean the the first couple of seasons of House of cards are quite good. And and this pilot was certainly pretty breathtaking hit. I wanted to put a music video here. Now, he's made over fifty music videos and a lot of them are for artists like Rick Springfield and the outfield and wire train and he really Kinda cuts his teeth in the eighties making. These kind of like chintzy looking videos where he's kind of just ripping off the Scott a lot in particular the BOP till you drop video by Rick Springfield is so weird I. Don't know if you guys had a chance to revisit that one, but it's basically like a it's basically an alien movie set in in the middle of a Rick Springfield Song Bad Rick Springfield Song, and so I find that most of the stuff that he does between eighty four and. Eighty eight eighty nine is kind of negligible. You know he's he had this long period of time to kind of figure out what his pallet was the way that he'd like to shoot things what kind of technology he liked to use to shoot these things what kind of film stock you like to use he's playing around a lot and then I think he I think he meets Paula Abdul of all people. I think it's really Paula Abdul. The former Lakers, cheerleader and pop star. I of. The Sarli Arly, very closely related to. Development as an artist I think we might have to Paula Abdul Videos on this countdown, which is kind of absurd because when I look back and I listened to these songs just standalone without seeing the videos. All can't sing like, did you did you guys realize when you were growing up the Paula Abdul can't saying take it back I mean it is true that. The Paula Abdul experiences so tied to those videos and I can see the video as soon as I hear the song but please respect Paula Abdul and my presence okay I like Paul Jewell. Songs a lot and. Yeah. They're really enjoyable that was like the ninety ninth take like David fincher just like eating out every sense I'm ocean or like believability from you but. You know what? I'd been thinking when I was going through all this I was like you know what? God dammit why Hasni ever made a musical as well? Yes, he has. Is he has he's essentially making these Bob Fosse. Videos with Paula Abdul. For a two year stretch and He did I have no idea whether adventure things Paula Abdul can sing that I guarantee you. He thinks he's an incredible choreographer and dancer and David Fincher for this period of time I think he sort of. Moved on from this a bit although you can still see it when like. He just decides to expose Daniel Craig's torso at various points in Dragon Tattoo. But he's fascinated with the human body and how it moves and I think so she And it's really interesting to watch him kind of like approach this from awake I always think of musicals is this idea of like you know the person filming it or the person choreographing directing it is really like attached to like. The like let every voice sing aspect of musicals but I think ventures only interested in the human bodies moving the music is secondary, maybe the rhythm matters or whatever. But it's fascinating to see him come at something that we think of is so like a a few sieve and full of emotion and he's like, no, I'm interested in the way the knee moves. I'm interested in the way an elbow crosses and stuff like that. It's so cool. Yes. So the the the video that were essentially talking about his coldhearted, which is from nineteen, eighty nine and is in fact an. To seen from all that jazz the Bob Fosse film where he's doing the choreography for takeoff with us and This was an interesting video to watch as a seven year old I would say it It created some new feelings inside me. She we talk about the erotic awakening that music videos provided at that time. Yes. Please speak on it Chris. Had just like a lot of stuff in music videos that was you wouldn't see ordinarily let's just put it that way both in terms of dance. In terms of the human body being exposed. And I remember this was on a loop. And I felt things you know what? I felt things that as a young man, I only have felt. The first time going through these things. Then what happened walk us through it how did you physically respond? I I learned all the choreography from the video. And performed it at our First School Dad's. That I had to go into witness protection. That's the thing I think in the same way that we're talking about how this guy was able to adapt stieg Larsson and Gillian. Flynn. He was able to transform What could be perceived as like a cheesy version of late eighties early nineties pop music, which I liked. You know just like Amanda like I'm I'm not above coldhearted I dig that song but he made it seem more serious and more beautiful and more transgressive than it actually was because he had this he had arrived at this very. Particular style. This editing style like what Chris is saying this kind of interest in the physiognomy of humans and the way the he'll captured their bodies not just in motion but kind of in close up and it's just a really cool video. It's not as best video He's actually got a handful of videos that I would. I would say describe as high art but. It's a really good video. So we're going to put coldhearted in number twenty, two, I think this means that fate leave nothing from the Nike Campaign has to go twenty one Chris can you deal with that? I can deal. Okay. So we've got twenty, five, twenty, one we're going to get through. About ten more picks but first, let's hear a quick word from our sponsor. Today's episode of the big picture is brought to you by Heineken Heineken would like to remind you that it's time for seasonal beers. Again, that's right. If you thought a cold Crisp Summer Heineken, think just wait until you taste the Heineken fall lineup is it a new product dome? Just the same great tasting lager is perfect for any season as we enter the fall season I. Surely Hope in Los Angeles would love to be able to sit on my back porch with that calm cool breeze blowing and have a cold Heineken. Original. Lager is made with pure malt and their famous east, which makes Heineken and all season all the time kind of beer. So pick up a pack forget delivered whatever your style remember drink responsible. Okay, we are back. We're ranking fincher things like music videos. We've ranked commercials, ranked films TV shows running the gamut here. I would say we're moving onto tear D. This is twenty, three sixteen. Kind of a mixed bag here. I, want I want to go with Amanda Choice Next I e even getting this above the lowest hair wasn't a type show. That's fine. I Like stabbed number twenty even though I think you don't appreciate enough. It would be that gone girl director's commentary his moment described at the end of the scene where nick done has to reach into his duffel bags backpack and get out a baseball cap that he's bought at the airport and he puts it on and walks away in hopes that people don't recognize him from the television and put together that Tim that he's in their presence. And I really wanted to be Yankees Cap but. Being from Boston. And not being. Very professional as an actor Ben refused to wear a Yankees cap and we. Did Not. Come to blows but we had to shut down production for four days as we negotiated with Patrick White's over what would be the best thing which is an extraordinary documents You know I think I'll directors. Your mileage may vary directors commentaries and how much you like to hear it like kind of people blather on and how much you WanNa, learn about specific shots but David, French who performs in this one specifically performs about Ben Affleck in a way that. became a meme and sort of you know a urban legend of the Internet except it's real and is just hilarious to me, and so there's just the baseline him making jokes about Ben Affleck wanting to wear a yankees hat not wanting to wear yankees hat instead of a madden just joking and he is being. Dry and sarcastic and all of this but just roasting affleck because that's a funny thing to do. And I think that's funny too and then it does also kind of add to the complexity of what the movie is about and chimney is also slightly revealing of like the man behind the curtain and how he thinks about things and his approach to. The themes and the people in his work, which is what we're talking about on this podcast. So that's it. The director's commentary. Thoughts. Yeah. I mean one of my favorite commentators on his own work. And you so any of the DVD commentaries are probably worth your time. I also really liked the feature at that comes with social network that's like an hour and a half long. Where you just get to see a lot of him. Sitting across from Sorkin, interrogating like every line of dialogue and you really do see why social network is probably the best fincher script and why it's also the best sorkin script because you're saying. This is Tiki, take this out, take this out and Sorkin just kind of going with it and I. It's incredible snapshot into a working relationship also. The movie it could have been and how they made the movie that we got I like that pick I think every single one of his films you'll find that there is just a treasure trove of bonus features. He does commentary for almost every film made he willingly captures the making of his movies, but in verse, similarly controlled way as the making as the way he makes his movies themselves and there's just a lot to explore with his work in an ancillary way. So Great Pick Amanda. Chris. You you you you WANNA fight hard for mind hunter right so I I had imagined mind hunter being in Tier D. but are you would you prefer to trade my mind hunter with one of his I guess a lesser celebrated films and move one of those into this section absolutely. Yeah. I. Think I think Hunter as in total is for me tear a I think we're not going to allow that here. Okay. I'm saying that is that that's where I'm coming from in the in the fincher exit survey that we did for the site I said that might hunter was my second favorite after tie for first? Okay. So, what do you think should go into your d the girl with the dragon or panic room panic room I think pat panic room is technically marvellous but is the film I returned to the least of his. So funny. You should mention that I just returned to it over the weekend and You know I watched it in my house where I'm watching everything these days in my house. The panic room. That's what you your house. That's what my wife calls the house unfortunately. There's a lot of natural light in my house and panic room is a very hard movie to see if you're sitting in a home with a lot of natural I do it is a movie that was made for movie. Theaters is a movie that was made for screening rooms and that compromise my ability to watch this movie in the way that it was intended but it's still I mean it's head and shoulders above every thriller made in a five year window around it. It just so happens to be made by the person who is the best at making these kinds of movies in it's his you know whatever quote unquote least effective means, but I still liked it a lot and I I was impressed. By the level of performance, he's able to get out of everybody in the movie I. Think it's a really really fun acting showcase for not just jodie foster and Kristen Stewart but for force whitaker and jared Leto, of course, really just going way over the top and this movie and then Chris your boy how will you remember play by Dwight Yoakam Yoka man? Yeah. The Long White Cadillac himself. I like panic room but I think I agree that it is. Probably, his second least successful film anything you guys want to say about it. I I mean, it's still great and it does that thing that I really love when movies just kind of encapsulate like an entire idea and become a reference point on their own I learned what a panic room was from panic room and. The becomes something that is kind of inner consciousness and that speaks to the effectiveness I think as Chris said earlier of just like within ten minutes you know exactly where you are. You know exactly what's going on you know everyone's motivations. There's like an economy of of storytelling and also in this movie, just the way that he communicates the space of the House and where everyone is at once like the choreography of that is. Really impeccable and you understand it. So easily I, it's it like the whole thing with the flammable gas and then everyone's arms being on fire some of it just like technically hasn't aged as well as other stuff and that's okay. But that's scene is riveting. The way the way that he the way that he shoots that scene in the way that it's staged a block is so exciting and you're right that you can feel the kind of like turn of the century digital photography and CGI in the way it's like the fight club title sequence as an entire movie. Yeah. Yeah. which is you know that does it does make it difficult to celebrate it in the same way and it does age in a way that some of his other like seven just doesn't h. Seven is GonNa look modern actually bill made this point on the podcast that it's just GonNa. Look modern forever and movie like panic room can't do that. But. It's A. Obviously, a purposeful comedown from fight. Club. Fight. Club was filmed on over four hundred locations. It is the sprawling movies famously. Kind of a flop and regarded with a lot of skepticism and even some anger and with me obviously just wants to strip it down to make a hitchcock movie and he basically makes rope and rear window and mashes them together and he gets his version of a movie like that, and for that purpose, it's really successful but in the constellation of his work, not a successful is it prefers perverse to put a Charles Barkley commercial ahead of panic room, it might be. Written. Assuming. They. Take. Turkey off. A chance to revisit Barclay on. Sick sick commercial something that I don't think I realized that he had made this until I started researching it but it's this big bold black and white Omar to busby Berkeley movies and yes, that is a lot of alliterative bs I apologize it was not intentional but is such a cool looking commercial and it also features original song written by Chuck D in commercial and only in the nineties could you get something like this only in the nineties? Could you get a black and white TV commercial for sneakers starring the most ornery superstar in the sport with a song from the front man of public enemy In an Omaha Sh to nineteen thirties Hollywood it's so strange was such a cool commercial Chris what do you? What do you? What do you think of Barclay on Broadway? I there's something so weird about how this was an era when you weren't supposed to sell out, you know I don't think that there was as much participation right at this moment. From the arts in commercials or from artists in commercials I mean there you people would do their like Japanese coffee commercial that no one would ever see. But it was really only in the early two thousands I think that you started to see a little bit more. Of A mass participation in this kind of stuff. So it's so subversive in a lot of ways almost because I feel like they're like we'll take your money, but we're going to do whatever the fuck we want with it. You know like there has there's a little bit of a rebelliousness to just the act of. Subverting both Barclays Image also taking Nike's money and making like a German impressionistic. A. A German, like film about like a Nike Sneaker. He's he's made a lot of things like this. He's made a lot of very knowing. I mean a that famous I think it's a Coca Cola commercial starring the arquette's when Courtney Cox and David arquette still married with takes place all in their apartment. It is like a weird commentary on fame and selling out there's that famous I didn't put the Brad Pitt Heineken commercial on on this list but I think that one you could credibly make of the Paparazzi Brad Pitt craving sixer of Heineken commercial on this list there. Is a James Bond. Omar for the Honda del Sole. It is one of his most famous commercials. There's one called the chase for Levi's your did leave is quite a bit over the years. That's like a kind of an action movie. You know like it's like the French connection with a starring a hipster. He's got this like broad Palette of commercials that are all so fascinating and you know it sounds kind of gross to be praising this stuff. Yeah I was just going to say you know I was slightly younger in the ninety s when these were coming out. So I remember a lot of them and I don't think that I was grown up enough to understand the concept of subversion, and so I think I just watch a lot of these being like Oh. Cool. This is commercials are in isn't capitalism awesome contain all this art. No. But seriously, I mean I wasn't thinking of capitalism that way either. But definitely in terms of like what I Amanda Dobbins took away from the ninety S I was struck by the fact yesterday that you know when Sean was just sending us like tons of youtube clips unanswered and it was like a bunch of Rick Springfield videos, and then a bunch of commercials and I was like this is an interesting insight into how our brains were wired and depending on how old you are in how able you were to Kinda. Critique the Meta text. It's otherwise it's just like being like, wow. Yea Capitalism and I know that's not the intent, but it is. It's funny. But I do think that it was almost this changing of the guard where if David fincher was ten fifteen years older, he probably would have come up making exploitation movies like he probably would come up making movies, Roger Cormon or something like that like the waist crazy and Jonathan Demme did and instead he comes up making commercials and music videos, and that's where he cut his teeth. So it's like it's almost like a very seventy s versus eighty s story in that way. Hey. What's up everybody? I'm Djamil Hill van late. And are used fans of the wire. So we teamed up with the Ringer to drop the wire way down in the whole analysis sparkasse the hit TV series Jelena's discussed epic moments key cared a deep dive fascinating theories and special award for every single episode of the show. So tap into the wire with us on the wire way down in the hold from the ringer. PODCAST network available now on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts I, think even in the commercials that he makes don't have that that burnt acidic approach or vision of the world he still is able to do things technologically that are just way ahead of the curve, one of the the campaigns that I came across that I had no idea who was responsible for his this. At and T. campaign called you will that aired in the ninety s which was on television all the time or at least the television that I was watching an was. Yeah. Celik exactly. It was narrated by Tom Selleck and Those commercials basically invent the Internet. They invent facetime they. Invent. Social networking they invent. Invent them per se but they visualize what would come to be the way that we would communicate with each other in the modern world and I'm sure some of that comes from what at and T. is asking adventure to do. But some of it is him being able to visualize in the same way that say Stanley Kubrick was able to visualize what was coming in the future. He's able to do it in these. These corporate. corporately funded products and I don't know that I necessarily want to celebrate. Actively, what whether Coca Cola was successful or not? Because of David, ventures campaigns, but it's so interesting that he used these formats to experiment to play with storytelling in very short formats and Poke Fun at this stuff in real time to poke fun it celebrity to poke fun at consumerism. The same way his movies do he really is he's able to have his cake and eat it too and most people in his position don't aren't able to do that. Maybe he'll come under fire twenty years from now for being a craven monster who is cashing checks at a time when people should have been doing that but we're not doing that here on the show today. So that's why we have Nike commercials on this list. Amanda, if you had to choose between express yourself Madonna or straight up by Paula Abdul for number seventeen and number sixteen, what order would you put those two in? In terms of my memory I. Put straight up by Paula. Abdul at the top and I don't know what that's about. I have such specific vision I think of Paula Abdul, doing those dance moves maybe I learned some of the choreography myself. I definitely had a Paula Abdul like workout video that was just like a dance workout video I. Guess My mom had it. Don't want my childhood wasn't that sad don't worry but then I stole it because I liked Paula Abdul. So I can just see her doing the you know the the Paula Abdul and then Paula. Abdul Shadow doing doing the moves. I know that express yourself is like a more ambitious and probably like broadly iconic. Video but I just I'm just glad that straight up is is here in this year. Chris would you do you think that? One of these should be eliminated in favor of Don. Henley's the end of the innocence. Is Better. than. Bedroom. I won't say, can I just say one thing in favor of express yourself? Yeah is. It's cool to watch him work so much intended them with someone rather than this person happens to be the subject of the video i WanNa make I think he obviously works in tandem with Kepala Doina on a choreography level, but he seems to be actively participating in the Madonna image machine and the Madonna sort of celebrity industrial complex in that video in a way that I guess he does George Michael Freedom Ninety two, but he seems deeply engaged with Madonna and I think that it makes it really interesting video and that was also. Video when it was on when it was like really popular was on like basically twenty four hours a day on MTV. So as soon as I saw the first images when I saw the link in your rundown Sean, I was like I remember every single shot in this video like it's imprinted on you. I'M GONNA have them be tied at sixteen and Seventeen. So just so we can create some fairness because on the one hand I think the Paula Abdul video is imprinted on many people's brains who were alive when that was released and also express yourself I think. You could potentially credit. For creating an opportunity for Madonna to continue to be the most important or one of the three most important pop superstars. Course of the next ten years the the body of work that Madonna starts with fincher, and then they later make together which obviously is. Iconic in more ways than one but express yourself. I think is where things start between the two of them and is a movie. I mean the way that it's shot the width of the budget onscreen Paula straight up is is sounded motion. You know it's the human body dancing and its the right song and the right filmmaker, and in some ways, it's the tuneup frank, right? It's black and white. That's it's it's it's stripped down and it's like the power of what he can capture with his camera and express yourself as the opposites production design smoke and fog. It's a it spans like twentieth twentieth century celebrity pretty much. It goes from like nineteen thirties like golden era Hollywood through you know. Through the eighties I, it's. It's yeah. It's really epic. So we've got we've got to your D- down. We're GONNA go to our final tier for this episode. To your see. We have five contenders I'm just GONNA. Put Two commercials up top here right away. The first is, is the gap dressed normal commercial, which is beautiful I don't think it's better than anything else that word about to discuss your on the show you've already heard Chris Wax rhapsodic about that Palanquins anything else share their. No I think he's some. Okay Another set of commercial campaign that I had no idea was David fincher. But that I learned last night that might have been my favorite commercials of that era barring the Mars blackmon Jordan commercials were Nikes the referee campaign starring Dennis Hopper which speaking of subversive and speaking of things that seem impossible right now, this is an arch analysis from one of the leading figures of nineteen sixties and seventies American counterculture. Or train a referee who is obsessed with. And obsessed with celebrating. The NFL. Oh. The ballet of bulldozers, moments of greatness. See of fury that crowd fickle, fanatical and faithful every kickoff, his possibility everytown war. Obviously, one big joke on the NFL Pratt and. Champ believed that they got away with this not only did they get away with it but these commercials ran all the time during football games in one, thousand, nine, hundred four, which is also right in the height of speed Era Dennis? Hopper when when you know the kind of like come on man like that version of hopper was very present in the culture. CRM released commercials course. Yeah. It's just like the thing is, is that kind of like what Amanda was saying about watching? Seeing some of these ads growing up like these do kind of just blended into the experience of watching to. Football. Games for eight hours on a Sunday as it's getting darker earlier in the East Coast. So when you included them, I was like I I. Guess I didn't really think of them as act of filmmaking as much as part of a barrage on my on my senses back then. They're immensely effective for me. Okay, we've got thirteen twelve and eleven to fill I've got three candidates here. One of them is a historic document that's very important for David fincher. One of them is a historic document that's very important for Chris Ryan and one of them is the girl with the Dragon Tattoo. Amanda what order do you think these three should go in? A I think that mine. Be. At Thirteen Dragon Tattoo should be twelve American Cancer Society Commercial. The smoking fetus should be at eleven but I can see Chris Ryan's face I Chris talk about mind. Hunter I'm you know? I just WanNa know did I miss some fucking quorum were Benjamin Button was critically reappraised. Do you WANNA. Make another trade you WANNA trade down further. Your. I'll trade another movie, but we're going talk about Benjamin Button I think that. It has a rich taxed. and. Taxed it's also the hottest that Brad Pitt has ever looked onscreen. Okay. When they meet in the middle and he's a normal Brad. Pitt and you're just like, wow, so I I'm not. I am demanding now that we take your audio, you saying it's the hottest Brad Pitt ever been onscreen and that it's just over the whole land baby. Old. Baby Body. Brad Pitt but it just didn't mind hunter at number two whatever it takes. Okay. So you don't like American realism. Chris here are the other options to trade. Seven I will not be trading you several ninety seven during that fight club I will not trade you fight club. Zodiac I will. Direct you just have to list of those social network. I will not trade you the social network gone girl. I will not trade you gone girl what about the game? Now I love the Game I love the game too. But that is that's the that's the candidate. That's the candidate. So you. Youth Amanda do you think that mind hunter is better than the game because that's the game that we're playing here? What's better? I. Suppose Time Ikley it's better. I think hunter in addition to being a TV show that I just never made it through because all my God it went on forever and ever is I think like? Focuses on some of fincher it's it's not what fincher is good at it like it kind of highlights some of the things it's a little self-indulgent. There's not that distance and that coldness in that appraisal that I think is what makes all of his other work So powerful, it's like it's too much psychology frankly, and at some point like I don't have time for it but. I do understand that. Technically it's quite something. I Love Jonathan Groff. I. Think all the performances are very good obviously inspired take contour, which is an important cultural met. For the people in this group. So I'm willing to put it above the game but then we're gonNA have to everyone's going to have to come. You know with some honesty and their their defenses ready on part too because I I don't have time for this at the number two spot. I'm telling you that right now that's okay. I understand that this isn't my personal journey. This this is about coming to some sort of consensus. So I feel like I've I've I've gotten it higher than I was hoping I thought it was going to get. So let's let's keep it in this too and I, just can't. Trade it into the next year I mean what we're going to say I just wanted to say something about the game. Okay. Sure. Of course, I was watching recently. And I didn't realize but it's probably in the top five movie kitchens for me of all time, which is just a very important thing to to isolate I have spent a Lotta time compiling that document and I think fincher is really wonderful at real estate and interiors and general see also panic room beautiful townhouse would love to live in it. I would even consider it. After the fact you gotta assume you were going to get quite a deal. But I believe it's a town stone in panic room the fame brownstone townhouse Combo. Okay. Well, it's great i. mean the original details, the moldings the staircase you know seems like it's got a lot of space. I just I also think that the game has a lot to offer in terms of real estate and also Michael Douglas Fan and there ends my soliloquy. I can't I can't allow. Hundred over the game Chris I'm sorry. Are you being serious? Yeah I can't allow that. The game is is, is I just know I will have my revenge on this potter the next Okay. Hold on hold because we didn't offer up all the All of the possibilities, there are also three music videos in the top ten here you WanNa give that away right now are we going to give away what music videos are going to appear on? I? Guess it doesn't matter well, I think process of elimination people are probably going to figure it out. It's not three rick springfield videos, everybody. That's true. Well, I would say. Let's just talk very quickly about the music videos that we didn't put on the list here. That are pretty well known I mentioned how if you guys talk more about music videos and then we get to the end of this episode, but you fucked me out of mind hunter and I just never talk about mine hundred for the whole four hours. We're to do this podcast I quit Chris you've been talking about nine hundred non stop for three. And a half years just they can take your foot off the gas. Bro, it's going to be okay. Can I ask a procedural question? Yes. Late still where'd you in part one today and then I think sean very cleverly has built in forty eight hours or so for all of our resentment and regrets to like simmer before we record part two. So as part one, completely closest I've always you mean like be revisions to the order I. Yeah. I think that. Putting this podcast up tonight getting the mentions coming in full of PISS and vinegar on. Wednesday. Only makes for good content. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, that's by design for the rest. Of course it's very good Amari kind of angry but. Okay do you WanNa talk about these videos do you WanNa? Tell me from what happens. Christy TURLINGTON LIP synching is better than mind hunter. I will do that on the next episode of this show. That serious have we matched please listen to everything. I've ever seen in my entire life and that will be the answer I'd respect. Ted, that video is in contention for a top five spot yes. That's a that's a very important. Here's some videos we're not talking about there are people probably say, why didn't you talk about this cradle of love by billy idol incredibly famous and well known sixth avenue heartache by the wallflowers invented instagram go back. That's GONNA. Get selling to judith by perfect circle. Great Great Rock and roll video. Years. Old Rock and roll. Fuck. Almost as good as Rick Springfield. Suit and tie. Jt and Jay Z.. That happened lull knock. That was not all that that was such a great pop culture moment that was really really funny. Chris. You fought hard for the end of the innocence as I mentioned, and we said that that's that's on making the list here. If you guys would just please make a donation to the Walden Pond Foundation in my name. Yeah you. You also wanted to chat about Steve Winwood, as I recall Chris Right. Guy was like we have to go all in on Walden. That guy. Yes I remember when Don Henley said that. Let's not talk about the three music videos because I'm not taking any of those out of the top ten Chrissy. Hunter. Goes the twelve. How I mean, it's your show. It's your show. Mu. We all we all eagerly anticipating your event. and. This is what happens. Do you WanNa talk about? This is wrangles revenge. Let me tell you something. Yeah David. Fisher got credited for however many episodes. He did he directed he is the director of mind hunter. And he made a twenty hour film about how this country broken half and how evil came out of that Fisher and how we like I've just lost ourselves as a nation but also like found out who we really are, which is a bunch of fucking perverts and a bunch of deviance and that the only way really truly understand one another is to like truly give into the deviancy inside of us at least like try to psychologically identify with it. I think that there are parts of it that are flat and it's a story told over so many hours that there are laws but I think the medically and dramatically to be it's it's. It's it's a different work from him and I it's a lot of ways. Up there with Zodiac for me but I understand that other people don't see it that way and I it's not about me. You know making people agree with me I'm just I'm just offering my cheeks. What a week need to? Be On there. So here's the only thing that I would say like. I don't want reconciliation from David French, which is why not particularly interested in mind hunter but shot, you're GonNa have to defend your position because all you do when mine hundreds odd is talking tweet about might not dirt. This is mind hunter. So you have to justify doing this because I have to listen to you both talking about it. So much I do here's the thing I just would rather. This is anti television bias nasty. What it is that is what is that is that is exactly what I was going to say Chris, which is that I would have rather had two or three David adventure movies instead of this TV show, which is a great TV show, but is a TV show and I just don't I'm glad. That way being David fincher disagree. I'm sorry but it's it's it's stuck at twelve. Chris. Okay. Let's talk the American Cancer Society. Commercial we don't need to impact a fucking American smoking's bad for you like that no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no no, that's not. That's not the point that commercial did something that no commercial had ever done before and it was it was for a nonprofit and it was so transgressive that it basically set him on his courses a filmmaker. It got him more opportunity that saying that got him out. Of, the the drudgery of working at a matt photographer and able to write his own check to become his own man to launch propaganda films, which changed music videos to become a future filmmaker who made all these movies. So it's really important. Now we can put it at thirteen. It doesn't really matter. This is a fake list. No one's really counting, but it is important and minehunter is you know the work of a rich guy in his fifties who super serial killers like? If. We're. Talking. About. Importance. I would put the cancer commercial ahead of mind hunter but not less. Let's talk very quickly about dragon. Tattoo. I re watched it last night. this is deeply. Deeply deranged movie. This fucking rules just a rules, but it's just so fucked up. He is just like a completely weird on main and like millions of people I bought this book and movie and we're like sure. So or read it is saying that these stiegler Larsson were as popular as they were and that then this was made like into a Swedish version I and then the. David fincher was like sure I'll make it and Daniel. Craig Rooney. Mara. We're like sure we'll be in it like what is wrong with everyone I'm into it pretty great I I. Love It I'm very very proud of everyone who signed on to make this movie. I'm not actually. That they didn't make more news grain. This movie robin rate is she doing just a little bit of a Swedish accent there. Have you did you do you notice that when you watch it? I didn't notice to be honest. It's really like it's a IT'S A. It's an inch deep, but a mile wide. Accent. Sterling capturing something. You know I didn't read this book a Man I think he did read this book I, read all the books which again, what's wrong with me did not have anything better to do with my time. They are not well written that the politics are very upsetting just a tremendous number of open face sandwiches which I know I talked about before but it's like literally imprinted on me that everyone is just eating teens all of the time in Sweden and then doing crazy sex stuff like it's when it's just simple. It's very damaged than it is him Kinda circle in the square on a lot of his interests, but it's also. It fits perfectly and it was filmography rights total procedure movie. It's all about it's a detective trying to discover what happened in the past and he really frankly never discovers it like he's got it. All wrong even when he solves it, which speaks to that kind of got. In a fucking like harness wearing a neck brace and Stellan skarsgard like maybe I'm gonNA cut your appendix out in front of you and he's like wait you I. got it. All wrong. It's like I'm not even like I'm not going to die for a good reason and I wanna leg yes and years playing I wanNA make a mean out of that scene with Daniel Craig is all tied up like die and just be like w Sean. Has To watch Ted Lasso with me. With who's who I'm in the neck race? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. That's what I need Amanda to come through with the golf club. From the television Sh. The girl to drag out is a fantastic movie and if made by any other mainstream American filmmaker, we would have said how in the world did this happen but by the time we got it from venturing. We're like, of course, at the end of course, I would say. On the teaser alone what teaser trailer? Yes the song that you heard at the top of this podcast was Karen O Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross's cover of led Zeppelin's immigrant song, which is the same on that. You can hear in that teaser and at the beginning of the movie, a conic recording the title sequence of this movie is also deranged it appears it's like a tool video basically just all like leather and melting goo and technology bleeding all over itself it's an HR. Geiger. Sculpture Come to life and I just feel like we skipped over it as a society I feel like, yeah, this guy made a blockbuster with James Bond and was just like rubbing grease all over himself and being like you disgusting fuckers and we were all like Yep that was a big blockbuster movie that didn't quite live up to expectations. Let's keep moving and that. Like when does that ever happen? When do we get something like this? Well didn't the good news is next year is the ten year anniversary of the girl with the Dragon Tattoo and we will be doing venture we to hopefully. That kind of does it for this episode though we'll be doing part two of this podcast later this week once you've had a chance to share your acrimony and distaste with Chris and Amanda but not me on twitter that's actress Ryan seventy-seven and Attic Dobbins Babe. Dimensions legislation. So definitely hit. Manda thank you for participating in part one. I'll see you later this week.

David Fincher Amanda Chris David Sean Christmas director Hollywood Chris Ryan commercial director Paula Abdul Netflix Heineken Heineken Ridley Scott Stieg Larsson Ben Affleck Nike Los Angeles David fincher.
Cinephile Roundtable: 4. David Fincher

Reel Chronicles

1:43:48 hr | 6 months ago

Cinephile Roundtable: 4. David Fincher

"Pro what's going on everybody. We are back. Welcome sinophile roundtable brought to you by real talking com. I'm your host david. I'm joined with today. Jc was going on very excited to dive into this graffiti. And elliott was going on everybody. This is gonna be a great discussion came weight. The diabetes have missed a venture. Oh yes especially after the man quote quote unquote divisiveness. Going on on social media over. The last three days should be an interesting conversation We're gonna dive into david fincher. All his works his career before we get into that. There's you know a little discussion that we need to have about the state of the film industry and that is with the news. Warners entire twenty twenty. One slate is going to release day and date meeting. It's going to release in theaters and on. Hbo max This could be the ball. Game in terms of the importance of the box office could be dependent. A hive goes I thought when you first heard the news. I'll start off. Elliott honestly man The writings on the wall for a while as we all kind of know movie theaters have been kinda under going under for a while. Even pre covid Just from some theaters not to be able to renovate you know the cleanliness of the theaters. I mean this. The actual experience has definitely changed since streaming has been more important. Tv's of guidance bigger and cheaper. So it's been happening for a while but obviously with coveted definitely kind of put the the coffin in the mail or the conference to say. But you ed in the day. I don't think we'll they'll never be university. I think we'll live in that. There won't be any theaters at all. Like i don't think that theater the actual experience will be extinct. But i think there will be a difference of what goes at theatre. How streaming services will be more instrumental to smaller chains or studios a twenty four neon and even some of the big studio. Some of their more independent films might find their way onto streaming services. But it was the thing that i do applaud. I might be a hot ticket thing. I do applaud with one row. Decision is they made a decision. We've seen so many studios is kinda put their hands. In the air we see studios or movie theaters. They have literally nothing to kind of combat cova nineteen they. Haven't you know. Come up with ideas to either us there. I don't know parking lots as drive ins. They just have to set down. Amc has been coming off the cuff saying out upset. The are but at least warner brothers. Made a decision which i applaud them doing. So yup juicy. I mean this perfectly but to me. Is those the same as i don't think movies are gonna be dead but it's gonna become more commodity whereas like i think only like murphy lake marble. We know they'll be good. But i definitely see this being like we're going to see a lot of mid budget lake prestige movies like like manque like like rainy like those streaming services. Were the did experience by just be like big blockbuster movies like what like with the streaming. 'cause you i remember sending the grinch stuff like 'cause you you've been calling that wars going to start putting a lot of their moves. Hbo max which i think is fine like the day in day like you guys are lucky. 'cause i know donnell Elliott has like a dr driving by his crib. That you called senator there right yes alternate the. It wasn't a bad experience was pretty cool. Actually and then david you come ecomac marine adidas. You have a local dealer. Me is sucks. I'm in your city which dita's in the cities have completely closed yet. So i like. I like the option. 'cause there's people that even with like bill max optionally. I've seen people said like if their local theaters showing one of the nineteen eighty-four. They're going to catch it there. Which i know. You say you're gonna do a day when you're going to catch it in. The theaters congestion wasn't support. Like if i had that option will be different. 'cause like i feel like the the is bill maxed of is good. Because it's like let's say for the little things where the moves in the wedding. Ewbal is his a movie with. Jared leto denzel Rami that's a small little thriller. Copter pilot twenty five thirty not a budget. That's one that. I would have my catch angel. Suddenly the matrix. Four dune wonder woman that's eighty four. I feel like if people have the option of catching those in the duke. Those like deserve that the spirits whereas something like that or like or like a twenty minute movie. We're gonna be gam cool watching at home no problem. So is this this. Like good bats wit. But i like the fact that the give the option of if you're open you want cash it in theaters. You could do it. Not you catch catch home. So it's like as pretty good. Yeah so i kind of fall into the same opinions you guys have. I think it's fantastic. I think this is great. news The day and date it opens up and this is something. I've been saying for months on here. And elliott nail that. I think the fear industry has kind of been on it on life support for a long time already. it's icy. Outside of big blockbusters theaters are empty. Blake i go see the oscar movies throughout the throughout the season and theater in new york and i think. Jc goes to the same one square. Yeah and there are some movies that i would say. Twenty people twenty twenty. Five people like the That we know those are the war contenders 'cause like that theater elliott tend to show like how i mean in chicago. Sometimes you have to wait like three weeks. Months against certain oscar moves so they open wide in this theater. is near. Elliot's the heart of the stuff that we get. The oscar munoz. So like davis satellite. It'd be like twenty. Like i want to stop moonlight like the first weekend. It was opened. It was maybe fits into your that guy. No the diehards As the film festivals yen like a perfect example with moonlight. I saw at that theater. And this is with barry jenkins zehr for q. And a. after the theater was still. I would say thirty five fifty people even know you had the director there for q. And a. after so he's shows like how dying the industry is. And i jokingly said last april i'm like well we never need to go to another movie again because i don't think any theater experience he's ever going to touch what we felt with avengers endgame and now looking at it. It's like i don't think anything will ever touch what we allow many more. What did they date thing. I think it's great. There are going to be things. jc nail. Something that that. I want to touch on the fact that people are going to be able to see little movies that they wouldn't necessarily go to the theaters for like allem excited. And i'm going to get into a leader in my oscar talked Judaism black messiah hitting hbo masks. I think is going to open a lot of people's eyes because that movie now leaders look incredible. It it's so socially relevant that. I think it's going to open a lot of people is i wouldn't necessarily spend the fifteen twenty bucks to see it in theaters advocacy of donor. Go ahead jesse nakazawa. Remember fred hampton. Place a play by cover. Harrison junior and trout chow seven. So the people that you know that wanted to see more of his character they're gonna see them dining columbia. Yeah no. i think it's going to be one of those situations where smaller movies are not going now. Going to get a lot more is which is Great and one thing that i did want mentioned to that i don't know if you mentioned Your youtube channel elliott effect that the stock market. And i i dabble in the stock market. I own amc stock. I own like a lot of shares in other companies or whatever disney stock netflix stock. These and h. b. o. Stock stuff like that like. I think it's so dependent on streaming that the fact that people want it is a prisoner of the moment kind of world. We live in where everyone wants. Instant gratification so the fact that studios are now adhering to that you know. Hbo says this is a one year thing. I don't believe they complete bullshit. I think atra. Yeah this is not a trial run. This is the future. This is what people need to get used to. I look at theaters and elliott nail. The to the fact that they're not doing anything they're not doing anything except bitch and moan about everything going on. They could have fixed this a long time ago when kovic started with the drive ins because they i would say the majority of the years giant parking. Lots you've just put a giant screen in front you get cars you charge thirty bucks a head and you're good to go but no. They decided not to do that. And they are in the situation now where they're about to lose a lot of films like amc's things like when alive today. Feel max i so i sold. I sold twenty twenty-five my shares. After the news i got out. I got gotta quick and got some of my money back. I was not playing games with that. But yeah no i mean. We'll see what happens. I will still put. I was still be going to theaters when i can but until until covid is completely gone if it ever completely goes away. The theater industry is going to completely suffer. I guess the real question is what comes out of the at the end still alive. What the chains are gonna come out of this alive and i think. Amc may not be one of. I think we may get into a point where we like. Smaller houses like cinemark or like even a bit. Maybe one of the big chains regal may still. But i think alamo draft house may be the one that survives us and strives from this. But that just might take you no. I'm right there with you. i mean again. It goes back into the experience. Is it worth going on out. You know having a date night having a night out with your friends. You know having the theaters that actually put in the effort to again whether it be seating whether it be you know comfortably level in the theater whether it be having you know Great concession so it's gonna be those that really put the effort in making into an experience rather than just Let me go to the movies or not so. Yeah and it's expensive like i. Am i going to broadway shows here. New york alive with my wife. And i will say like outside of hamilton because hamilton cost me to grand. You'll go to yoga show. I would say my wife. And i pay like it'd be like i pay like a hundred bucks for two tickets hundred bucks and then maybe show get a drink coaches like ten dollars. So let's just say ten when you look at the theater experience. If i'm accident new york. I don't know how it is where you're from elliot. But like if go to an i max in new york city and new york city is twenty six dollars so so twenty. Six twenty six at fifty two plus would like another thirty. Yes you're basically painting almost a broadway show which is a much better experience for the most part of it at it goes from juries. Yes oh pay like to. That's going to new york so it becomes like a trip. Essentially that's what it is so We'll we'll see what they we'll see what happens with that but it should be interesting So that's kind of the only news. I wanted to touch on. I did before going to david. Fincher i did wanna go over because manque was released today. I did want to go for with you. Guys some of the oscar predictions that i. Because i do. I run oscar predictions on the page starting in july. So i kinda run every category prediction for the entire run. But i'm only going to touch on the top seven here like screenplays actor actress and get kinda get will you guys are at if you guys agree disagree so also worth so a start with best picture and i'm going to run through my ten so right now i still have and this is subject to change. I still have manque as my number one for best picture. I think we're going to get into a full discussion of it. I don't think people that are detracted. From the film are the ones that vote for the oscars and the academy so. I think that they're going to love this movie. And i think it has a very good shot of winning best picture my number two this chicago seven. I moved that down And i think. I don't know if i said this on here with you guys but i definitely have said this to jc. The a presidential elections. I have a lot to do with what the academy does. And i think if trump would have one again i think try chicago. Seven would have been a no brainer best picture because of the subject. Banner in the movie. But i think because trump loss. I think it's lost a bit of steam. I don't know if you guys have seen on your urine. I don't hear a lot of people talk about it anymore. do you do you guys. Jc at gold thirty nine. Now it's what about you. Elliott is kinda. Yeah the the the hype. Ford is kind of died down but still some still hear people talking a little bit about the progress goes regardless of the morning. At that but yeah. I still think that it's still going to get in but in terms of winning. I think its chances are starting to dwindle a little bit less. Things changed now with Crafts and works secure thing is probably the screenplay it's still fear that's like the best repair the year Yeah i think that. I think that i would agree with you. Her nichols is second one number three. I have nomad land. But i think that starting to to die down. The a nomad reminds me of marriage story last year. I have you guys. have you seen earlier not yet. I'm hoping to in the next couple of weeks or so years. The screeners early same. Same with me. I think Lincoln center in new york was offering screenings. And i missed it so i still have to catch that but i do. I do have a number three because of all the love that it got throughout a tiff and telluride. So i have that number three number four. Have one nine in miami which i did see One nine miami is incredible incredible stuff. I'm not a big fan of like movies that are based on plays because sometimes they have a hard time transitioning to the big screen but this does a great job of trying to make a feel like film and authentic film The performances are incredible. I i know how much jc you love malcolm x. denzel portrayal. You're gonna love this. You are going to love it. I liked the actor. He was in trump city hangs in on he was in high fidelity so like. I'm already a fan of the act work from what i've seen so i'm excited. See is who has taken it and have you got any chance to see it as of yet a one enemy. No that that's supposed become next week. So i'm really really excited because i'm a huge fan of the cast but i'm a even bigger fan of virginia king and her director. Odu from really excited for them. I'll tell you this you're gonna watch this movie you're going to be like wow like her first film like she wrecks the shit out of this movie. It's incredible stuff that's awesome ob again next for me. I actually have this a lot higher than a lot of people. And i just think it's going to pick up steam because of the election results and i have the five bloods. I think it's going to come up. Because of delroy lindo he's going to get a nomination for best for lead actor so i think it's going to be one of those situations where people are going to start seeing it again and you're going to remember how great it was and i think chadwick being i think going to be a double the youngest cassim gideon so the fact that if delroy gets in if chadwick gets in then i think that's gonna start to train for the movie to get maybe screenplay may be a director nomination out of nowhere like something like those lines were lands in picture. So that's why i have that. Their necks up marines black bottom. Which i got a chance to see a few weeks ago and Believe the hype fellows. Chadwick is incredible. Like i think it it's if he knew this was his last performance. That's how good he is. Probably from what i've been reading and like you said he left it all out on the table. I feel like he knew he didn't have long. This might be his last movie yet. It it when you guys see. And i think it's either next week or if you guys always it's it's so great Next up i have minority minority starting to lose some steam. I thought it was going to make it to the end but minority and ten so far soul. I think it could get in. Because i'm hearing a lot of positive things said elliot you side so i don't know if you can touch on whether you think it has a possibility here one hundred percent. I definitely do. It is really. It's a great inspirational film. Especially during his time. I think is gonna really get a lot of buzz with the coming out on christmas. As well so The voice performances a great. The message behind the film is incredible in the. It's one of my favorite pixar scores as well. So it's it's going to be a big one awesome and then the last two for me. I haven't stopped talking about this movie since i saw it. If the category if the academy has the balls to do this. I think i think they can with this new changing academy promising young woman and the only reason i have at this low is because it's just it's a movie that the academy just doesn't go for but if it does man when you see this movie when you see this movie all my god the discussions that are going to be had with this movie is i talked about it. In past episodes they they touch on the rape culture in such a different way. That you're just like okay. Like i dig this. And the ending of the film is one of the most divisive endings. I suspect that when general audiences are able to see it they're going to have a lot to say like i saw by myself My wife saw a few scenes. Msci like oh. This looks pretty interesting. Look pretty good. If i can tell you right now when she sees a full movie she's gonna hate the ending like we're going to have discussions about this about how much he hates the ending. I'd love the ending. And when you guys see it. I think you guys will have. Maybe the same opinion may be different. But i think it definitely will lead to some incredible conversations and the number ten. I still haven't in my ten because it's getting some decent buzz. I do have the prompt. I think if judas comes out in february like i suspect they will. I think judas is going to be best picture player. So yeah that's that's my ten and then my feifer director. I think you guys may agree here. I have fincher zao. Regina king aaron sorkin and i do have spike lee sneaking a right now Do you guys have anyone in mind. That i may have forgotten me if dental couldn't get professors i don't know how the the marini director could do better reviews than that I can tell you it's better than i can. I can agree. I can really reviews lake Like accuracy depending how much like hanmi loves loves marines i give mingora viola the screenplay the screenplay would might get in. 'cause you saw you said that chadwick is legit lead. 'cause in the play that guy got told you the guy that played on showers character. You got nominated for the supporting actor. Tony saw like a party switch switch as he did to give that character like a bigger part might might work in the kademi favourite like to show that screen. Play some love. Yeah i don't think And when you see it there's nothing that in that movie that will say that he is not a lead by chadwick is absolutely lead are so moving onto lead actor. This is going to be another sweep. I don't think. I think chadwick sweeps this season. I think this is going to be chadwick. You know he'll become the third actor to win the posthumous academy award. I chadwick on my number. One anthony hopkins for the father and my number two delroy lindo number three. Gary oldman i four. And then after i saw this movie and elliot will cosign on this one reason. I'm ed for some the metal like it is which was later on tonight. It's it's the movie is not an i. Don't of elliott feels the same way when he first sight like. It's not what i expected. I thought the movie goes into completely different direction. Were expected in risi's incredible it. It would be great to see him get nominated here. And what was i. Guess the you talking about. I guess it was far for the studio. 'cause premier festivals. There were smart to hold it all when year Yeah yeah and and the movie. I don't think the going to do much. I think this may be just hazard Right now i was surprised. I think it's going to be a sound player and then raise but yeah that's my five. I can't really think of anyone else at the moment like tom. Hanks is the only one. But i'm hearing at the movies. Not as good as people expected. So a may vary when it comes to visages just depends where they put daniel because people still don't know if he's gonna go supporting our league. Louis is going supporting. I can go for his. He's going supporting us. I guess mccallum humor. Same la keith. Is is lead o Lead actress year. Vanessa kirby pieces of a woman viola davis number two carey mulligan number three for promising a woman. France mcdormand four. And because you can't rule out until she's not in. I still have meryl streep five guests to movies now. Workers upset. yeah. I would never make that mistake again. I used to make that mistake. The flash. I was like i saw the movie. I'm like. it's not that good. I hope she doesn't get in everything she did it. Because that's my favorite actress. But there's some nominations that i'm just like didn't deserve would like life for into the was not better than a chef staining almost violent year or stellar like jessica chastain deserve nominated for either the over into the woods and i mean in finishing up on merit. I think we're gonna talk about it and a little bit. But she won her last oscar. and she's she kinda screwed over someone. i should have won that oscar. So and then yes finishing off supporting actor at such a baron cohen. Winning right now with leslie odom junior number two bill murray number three danu kalou number four and then chadwick number five so i haven't missed a double nominee and in supporting actors have man to see freed winning for mink than olivia colman. The father. I think this is the fun nomination. I don't know what's going to happen. But i have marib buckle over for borat I have ellen bernstein for pieces of woman. How helena's zen gel for news of the world. I think she does get in an an screenplay people go ahead. Jc now that'd be a lot of people saying that before like Halian grip whereas i is likely but as they go support because she's so important and good that she might get the nomination. Yeah and then screenplay. I have manx still winning screenplay than childish goggles seven soul on the rocks and promising or woman and that that have no madeleine one nine in miami marines black batum. I've borat and the father was born. I did get the original. Did get a kademi award here. So yes so that wraps it up i mean the the the season just started. So we'll see what happens here But it seems like it's going to be one of those seasons that it's going to be all over the place in an old paper going to have a clear picture runner until maybe closer to the day of the show but yeah let's get into it fellas. Jc you're gonna say something. No no just with this season being so different all the way in april. I like some movies dead. Like that's the only to the fibrous is still my top five for the year but it worries me that affect came on jerusalem is. I'm going to ask ten months as it came out. And then one note that i wanted to see if you guys would agree. I think i have five netflix's movies in best picture. There has never been a studio that has gotten five best picture nominees. Do you think the flex would do it or do you think they may draw the line at four. Jc what he women for shore with control of those. Our lives are locks yet. And i feel like they could get three or four with my rainier defy bloods. I feel one of them after the definitely. Get three the fours like i said. I'm still a little worried. A bid with the five blessed because it came out so long so many movies came out. That is a little bit loose team. I do is very disturbing of a best picture. Nomination by dislike. I said it does the fact that it will get. The ten most is relieved. That is hope that it doesn't get forgotten maybe Passing away like you know his last two performances. Being coincidentally with a netflix movies at this whole blanket still has some steam but for sure. They're getting three the if they get three it just depends which was the demographia the fabulous book. They're definitely getting these three day. Slipping yeah well. What about you ellie. What do you think there are we so with the fifth sloppy potentially. He's he's of a woman. So so for me. I have Trial manque five. Bloods mava rainey's and once the problem right and the prom. Yeah so i probably will get nominated. I haven't i haven't at ten. Because i think it's going to be such a big glose player and you know how sometimes like globes kind of started trying to stuff like bulemia rhapsody started at the globes like holbrooke rob Somehow best picture nomination it saw. I saw the prom last night in very interesting interesting. What else boiling james corden. Surprisingly he was is entertaining. I don't know if i really agree with kind of the story plot where he can't. Yeah that stuff. And what his mom and dad but i thought merrill was great I don't wanna get too much. But the mccarrick to kind of had a lot of highs and lows. The film didn't think that act was a a motion rate position. Yeah to carry some of those scenes but it was entertaining. And i will say i didn't mention it but do not sleep and i didn't like the movie. Jc area like the movie. I know ellie. You're a little bigger on it than we are. But don't sleep on help hillbilly elegy. Because i've i've been. I've been told that people like that movie like people that need to like that movie like that movie so there is a there's local so they didn't. I don't think she's the one that i sleep on. Because i can't really sleep because i i just don't think they'll nominate her. She's not gonna win. And i don't think that's i don't know man i just don't have it for alpern abs but at this point after what. They did two years ago where she didn't win. I don't think she gets in. It's kind of like the whole Michelle pfeiffer i'm michelle. Pfeiffer was kind of a talk with french z. But i don't care if she weird. Yeah i don't think she gets in unless she's gonna win. It's like the willing to foe to lake will next time willing to fogelson. I think he's gonna win. I i it's a whole overly overly do person when someone else is gonna win. I don't think they're gonna do but don't be. I mean it would not shock me. It could be this year is Incredibly close. I don't know so i i know you're bigger than we are but it just. Yeah it's going to be one of those moods. I may just come out of nowhere. Just start doing well at during ward season but that pretty much wraps it up with the news and some oscar. Talk here is so. Let's get into it. Follows david fincher david. Fincher is one of the best directors of this generation. And for me it's been since Seven was the first movie of his at i saw. So i'll kick it off with elliot. What are you. What was the first memory of david. Fincher work for you For me it was a fight club. Asthma i david fincher into his world to his mind is kind of Allegories of speaking different Parts of of the human A mine in regards to just human life whether it be something like Fight club talking about the big band in the in the in the guy behind the scenes and just kinda take it down the corporations whether it be you know a facebook film. So i just love the way he kind of does a lot of character driven pieces in fight club was my entry point in one of my favorites Sure which we'll get a little bit later but fight club was my entry to mr fincher. Jc what about you saying we will fight club because remember that will be embalmed in the box office. Bullying was kim on. Dvd was like a humongous bus barney. No because everybody was talking about the twist. So like i remember i will fifa kamala seven of the first almost as Two thousand with a one and it was just as a little kid. You know like i. Wasn't i love you guys when you first fico pick up the heat that yes personality but as a ten year old like eight. Nine year old kid i was blown away by and i love the whole world as i got older and i started getting more to throw myself seven and all this. I've been a fast of physicists. Fight club but i is. His work is very bleak Yeah i was gonna say. I've some notes on his career as a whole but i think david fincher like is i think he's an acquired taste but despite how good he is because i don't think he has very likable leads for the most part. I think that we look at something. Like the social network and mark zuckerberg is and people. Talk about like yeah. People talked about in two thousand ten lake that he took it too hard on him. Now we look at mark zuckerberg. And i think david fincher took it too easy on him but he's not likeable at all. And then we look at just mac. Now it's very you know mink has his. We'll get into a bank. Has his character flaws but as a lead. I don't think he that likable. As a as a person so like. I think that's an historians are super bleak look at zodiac so but the most notable character was benjamin button because you felt for the guy who was aging backwards and then For for those unaware. David fincher i gained recognition for directing numerous music videos. He directed madonna's express yourself and vogue. Which actually read for george michael. Did he do that too. Yeah i love that. Music with nice. Fincher did not attend film school. But he cites hitchcock as major influence as well as says e. George roy hill His personal favourite films include all the president's men taxi driver of rear window paper moon lawrence of arabia american graffiti the graduate jaws close encounters all classics He actually suggested when we talk words. We're going to talk about this movie in a little bit. But he suggested that panic room is a combination of rear window. Meet straw dogs. I love shrugs i. I don't know if you've been able to have you ever seen that. Jc straw dogs. Yes you're like throw dogs. Aw no mom say like the o. Hub the rape scene. How she she's semi enjoying it. Yeah yeah have you ever seen. Shaw doug elliott. It was on my list. I was when i was in school. There was a list like films that kind of are very controversial. One being owned a clockwork orange. That was one of them. I didn't get a chance to see it. Now it's like jaycee said it. It takes interesting choices but like the end them. Film is is solid stuff his filmmaking process. I know you guys are where this is extremely extensive and he has a lot of takes. So i think you guys are familiar with the whole rooney mara story. Jc so for Rooney mara is in the first scene of the social network. Which is i think. An incredible opening scene. That scene took ninety nine. Takes took Amanda was i think the the dinner scene in in manque hit gary oldman. Was that got done this a hundred times already them. In the end they refill to responsible. Yeah this is one hundred one. Yes let he is one of those very heat. He's a perfectionist so he kind of reminds me of kubrick because kubrick was multiple. Take kind of director. So the fact that he takes his time and does take after take after. Take just to make sure it's perfect. And the fact that he seen as little as that opening scene of the social. Because i would say that's a five minute scene at at best. If five hundred seven yeah to have ninety nine takes from not just that one scene shows like how how much he pays. Attention to detail I have a few fun fact before we get into like talking about his film stuff so these are more are directly. What ifs so. He was actually originally. I hate this movie i think. Jc likes this movie. He was actually originally set to direct the black dahlia. But he dropped out. i liked. What is one of the worst movie. That potential nominee. I love the possibility that could say what he does. Crap out what about you. Are you in the black dahlia. I haven't seen it so my list but have not seen it. So it's not as nice sounding integrate subject matter but it's a very interesting subject matter but he just completely fails. He was also said to direct mission. Impossible three but dropped out. I know that he will were c. Two which would have managing another another couple here. He was originally considered to direct spiderman into a normal That would have been interesting to me next up here. He was originally considered to direct confessions of a dangerous mind. Ooh i mean it worked for the because i feel like that was that was. That was a good start for cooney next up here. He was actually. He turned down the offer. Direct catch me. If you can't do panic room interesting so that would have been interesting. Look like yeah much bleaker than what's me. Open the the sort of may neil to this this this next one kind of would have changed the entire comic book industry. He turned out he was the first person to be offered. That man begins and he turned it. That would have been. Yeah yeah i. I mean we kind of getting a movie now with the batman but it have been such an interesting because that those dark themes that obama because had would've been perfect for his thou- and this last one he he turned now eight millimeter to direct club. I've never seen a millimeter. Side is kevin walker whatever. The guy's name the seven. Yes so i. I mean there would have been really like i've seen a million like is a decent foam is very is very says style is very deal lake Nicholas case character. Forget whether a film is really a snuff omar so that would. That's all his ballpark interesting You mentioned before. Jc they fight. Club was a failure actually boxoffice wise. He only has one movie. That did not grow one hundred million dollars. So i'll run through all of alien three gross one hundred seventy five million dollars. Seven grossed three hundred twenty seven million dollars the game which i thought would have been it. Gross one hundred nine point four million dollars fight club actually did gross one hundred point one hundred one point two million dollars. Panic room did a. I actually surprised. Grossest much panic room. Gross one hundred ninety seven point one million dollars. That was a very popular movie. Was it hand. I i remember just being one of the only people at my circle that saw it and enjoyed it this one. It's low zodiac only gross eighty yet just bound badly curious case of benjamin by gross three hundred and thirty five point eight million dollars in nets bananas and film. If i'm not mistaken had like a pretty significant budget especially with technology. I think is like over one hundred fifty right. Yes something along those lines. the social network grows to twenty four so that because it was such a huge player at the time to showing mushroom was so. This won't surprise me to growth dragon tattoo. Growth to hundred and thirty two point six million dollars allow and then finally gone girl. I saw this big yeah. This is huge. I saw it in an empty theater. So i was shocked when i saw. Yeah i think i was. Maybe like twenty five people twenty six people in there twice Packed yeah three hundred seventy point three million dollars so and obviously make meg mag. Would've i think it'd be. It'd be forty fifty million of everyone on theaters. I think it would've made a hundred million with with with the current Cova no put out a regular year regularly. i think he would have made a hundred million dollars And then all of his movies for the most part are certified fresh on rt except alien three. That is the lowest rating foil surprises. There so we can actually kick it off with that and go through his filmography everyone. That's listening to david. Fincher fan knows the story. Alien three is not his fault but it is what we got. What are your thoughts on alien three. All star elliott on here is interesting so this to me. David fincher in the alien situation reminds me a lot of no. You guys talk about films. He was kinda thrown into the mix of Dune in kind of how. He's such a tour director in high. Kind of never really went back to blockbuster. Just kind of look at david fincher now. Same light were you listed off a bunch of stuff spider man that man all this stuff but he really never wants to go back to a blockbuster ally that's was so surprised when his name was brought up in world war z. Obviously is collaboration with wrap. It was a big plan and it opposite. Didn't work out but yet you know he's a gun for hire that position so many different writers so many different directors attached to it. I personally once we'll get to are top ten lays you know it does as in a fan especially aliens the handling of the kids. Who is again isn't his fault but it is still kind of stings me the way they handle of some advocators aliens but yet it's just one of those situations where personally is not my least favorite alien film. I think that that goes to wreck shen But you know there's definitely some david fincher 'isms in the film and actually the whole director's cut is much better than the you know the actual cut that we have aliens three but it definitely was a good experience for him to be i out of the gate in like i said every since alien three project you really never seen him attached to another kind of. Don't call blockbuster after probably Probably trying to light on why. He kind of has his opinion on blockbusters in the movie industry in general just because of that experience. So yeah no. I agree with you. I think I think i've spoken to jc off the air. I think you kind of nail. The elliott it's character choices. I'd love aliens. It's my favorite of of the entire series. And i love the franchise. The moment movie kicks off and new is gone. I'm out i'm out. I'm like completely disengaged from like these choices. Our that choice was made. New is new kind of like the third line of the entire aliens movie and the fact that you just kill her off. No reason offscreen took took it out. It just took me out of it and the movie as a whole it is what it is like you know i. It's not the worst for me like you said. I have resurrection in to england versus predators. As you worse. And i could. Actually maybe i. I when when thinking about it if you force me to answer this i may even say l. alien covenant. His worst alien three but But yeah like it just didn't do a for me i. There's not much of that film that i like. There is good visuals. Especially and you said there's some venture 'isms in there but the visual of Alien and sigourney that still like memorable visual but outside of that really doesn't do anything for me. Jc what about you. I'm you guys sent it. All is like is definitely not the worst in the franchise but is not like i said at least it had a lot of directors before him that were attached. A lot of is a lot of creative choices that like him killing of new pretty sure if he had a part in the screenplay. Had leveraging obama's abused kimberly. He was going to you know he could have made that up. Swizz old now you gotta bring a bag so there was a lot of positive that wherever it has fall. He did the bessie could like. I move for the first time in a long time this past week. Like it's definitely. The words as resurrection are never seen the numbers of predator but was in their interest in me. So i can't really speak on the but on the were terrible Yeah they're pretty bad. The resident evil director. I don't have fun of his work yet. Like those a lot of promises. They're just the fact that we saw that the next settlements career they go from pretty good to great. We like there was some promise. You guys pretty much. Said everything is is not the worst the franchise and there was promised like when it comes to me i will reward. Eighty moves is really aliens and prometheus out already care about a west the other ones. Yeah i you made me completely. So if i start if i watch alien i. I'm stuck watching all the garbage with with that claim here next for me. I think it's when everything takes for him. It's one thousand nine hundred five seven. It is Eighty one percent on art are t- Yeah i mean what i think. We've all talked about seven in the past and just like how incredible it is. I think this is when you start seeing everything that david fincher is about. There is certain aspects of the film that works so well for me that stuck out and it's just like the discovery of every one of the seven cents and culminating at the end with with said. I think the best choice he made and i don. I'll see if you guys agree is the fact that you don't see her head at all. I mean you want to see it contains. Aj dictation but like the fact that he would he was able to constrain himself from showing that head. I think he's just add more to the scene. And just add more to the at the end of the movie and kevin spacey like he's persona non grata now but he's incredible in that film. That is little as he isn't that movie. He's incredible so yeah. Seven is kind of set everything off for me with david fincher and just remains one of the best worker working directors today. elliott. Do you think on seven yemen. Seven is definitely I remember seeing that for the first time. Just be all and really kind of appreciated him as a director in a really kind of just speak to as mentioned earlier in regards to this. How influential film is knowing. That batman film is heavily influenced by film. That came out. You know back in the early nineties so it kind of speaks to the testament of time to the film. brad pitt. Morgan freeman characters are incredible special. Love morgan freeman kinda. Threw him regards to him his last case and trying to help brad pitt trying to right. His wrongs and i go down the same path that he does so it really speaks against. What what i love about david fincher is him being such a character driven character. Focus director in really kind of sets the tone for a lot of his before regarding how he id ads the character is in. It's heavily influenced to you. Know i haven't watched minehunter. But i hear that. It's really an influential to his direction of kind of the tone of mine hundred so i think we dives into those psychological thrillers He does he thrives in that. John route so i just think it's one of his best films for sure. Jc a love seven is like like i haven't liked but like mine. Hunter is definitely influenced a lot in that style. Even eat recycled circles alighted. It was zodiac with hunts with this like is this is like worth david fincher like the filmmaker for film was really born like a really. Let him losing his show. Just how much of the eighty was that. He was able to wait. The seven is amazing. Like twenty five years later. We we're getting influenced by the batman when the trainer came out on the timothy shalah macy He put his out of the box. Like that was a whole thing. Everybody just kept saying. I wasn't the box because of that movie so it does allow how influential popular the movie. That's five years later. People still quoted was still finds ratio about it and like the chemistry between morgan freeman. And brad is just amazing. Like it's really crazy. I don't of you guys know obliged dennis. Oh actually turned down the the brat payroll which would have been interesting. Because i feel if he has said yes we would have guy mortgage munroe the road. Because i don't think i seventy five. They would have allowed to black lisa leader movie like that so i feel like does alternative. Don worked out for the best. 'cause it was a big break for brad pitt and started a beautiful partnership and then a gave morgan freeman one of his most. I mean few probably one of his best performances and dislike the like. You said the imply like we. We don't have to see the head. Said noah to we know what it was that her head is aside there but i feel like leaving it up to us like distinct magin. Everything worked better than showing the head. I feel like showing. How would have been a little distasteful. Even though with a movie like that so must have happened. That would have been in the realm. But like i love. The ending is like brad. Brad pitt like where he was like figuring out what it is like before he shouted john doe like the crime that some of the best academic breath has ever done at kevin spacey in a little under ten minutes that he was screening which he mesa impact as one of the best screen venezuela thailand. Just those little ten minutes. One of those films at the villain actually wins in the in yet For him is. I hope elliot agrees with us. I think it's his most underrated film that no one ever talks about The goldfish so the game. Seventy three percent on rt. And i think that's too low. I think the game is so so underrated michael douglas's performances fantastic in it. I think sean penn is great in a everything about the movie. Outside of when he gets to randomly placed a mexico and randomly is able to show back up Works for me i. The twist is one of my favorite twists. That i've seen in a movie end of that era because i actually thought that yet be killed his brother and he jumps off the building to have the same fate as his father. Mike okay did venture really is more doesn't like anyone living at the end of his movies but I think it's just such a solid film and a solid underrated. David fincher film Jc what do you think. I'll kick off with year. Is definitely his most underrated movie Paddock wound people. Talk about is it was it. Was you know popular game For sure that was actually the second movie of his irish saw at the fight club. I run my brother in. Law live with the dvd. Because i like. I like michael. Douglas basic is the fatal attraction. Movies super gated. I remember like the first time you watch the game. You cannot look away like no such so many interns like this. The plot is very engaged in very interesting. The mexico stubs definitely the worst part of the movie slows down the pacing of it. But the twist of it is so great. Because i remember what i saw at a. He threw himself of remember. This is before asked seven eight. Decided we know how dark he gets like per se like killing off characters and stuff sira the first time he threw himself. I was like you know like you going to throw himself off. But that when he landed on the eggs. I'm mike in as as a little kickoff. So i like that. Senator living is old and i remember i was i was. I was amazed at everything about the movie because it was very engaged in wasn't turns but the any kind of effort. I almost thought i was like would have he would be granted. I know the the the actor character told them all joma had to push you from would have seen a little miscalculations. Ottawa took in france. In i land on the x. Suspension of disbelief. My friend. that's all that's all. I got there What about you elliott thoughts on the game yet. So this when there's a couple david lynch films. Unfortunately i've only seen one. That wasn't able to catch us from before our rankings. Here but would i do remember from the families really enjoying like you all have mentioned michael. Douglas performance And it was really interesting to see david fincher not saying that he was a big twist guy but i like you know after alien three. It was kinda like comply like okay. What's the next two is going to be this kind of interesting and kind of get away from that kind of stigma on leica. My shamlan really enjoyed the The during that would get with michael Douglas character and it is something. I've been wanted to visit for a while but i remember Like cnn wants really enjoying. you'll see it once. It gets to our rankings air but i do remember enjoying the journey. That are categorised in this is just one of the wildest angel ever so you. Mcdonald's goes through in that film but definitely have to revisit it sooner much in a much more later for sure like honestly a lot of it doesn't make any sense but fuck it because like the when the tv starts talking back to him. I'm like okay through. I'm good i'm good. Let's keep going how that company owns the entire building. Yeah sure why not. And they take over different little kid. I ate it all up. And oh my god. Jc you're gonna you're gonna knock me on this on. What's the character actors. Name that guy that pleased the the that the that he ends up actor guy yet he i just love that. I just love and forgive us for not away a few ago. Yeah and forgive me for remembering zane. But i just loved that a character actor is playing a character actor in the movie. I think it's awesome but yeah that brings to partake for me. I think his most overrated movie. I most popular. Yeah most popular movie. But i feel his most overrated moving. That's fight club. I re watched it to get ready for this because this is one that i. i've always had spoiler. We'll get into it on. Our rank is a lot lower than ninety nine percent of people And i understand a little bit more. Why now it's too fucking long. It's just way too fucking long. And i and i remember if you think from the movie in terms of like at nor performance and brad pitt is pretty great the twice obviously they reveal and then i do like the symbolism at the end. But there's so much filler. That goes on throughout the movie. That just disengages me. So i've always felt that fight club is solid. It's not a bad movie But i've always been one of those f. Feels that it's not it's not it's not ventures gift to cinema like a lot people think but yeah that's my take on fight club jc I'm the same way as you have it as high as of the people that have my like it a little bit more than you like the same issue. I do not think that movie needs to be hundred thirty nine minutes long is a lot of fillers. But there's a lot of great stuff like the north performances. Amazing that's tyler. Dirt is one of the best characters. Ever 'cause it's just like is like the such a late nineties movie like late nineties early. Two thousands like from the soundtrack. I said absolutely. It definitely is a product of his time but unlike most product of a simul still madison be very popular to this day is still holds a good because i said don't david fincher move this kinda somewhat bad is eighty three so it's still a very good movie like the performers disagree helena. Boom i don't bomb caught on the middle of like a lot of people. Don't talk about that. These really really good in that movie like she has great chemistry with both of them and like lake for multiple only tends to see her in period pieces and and an timber movies. This is like one of his her best performers outside of the work of those two. That's whistle grace. Still amazing the fact that so many movies nowadays. They tends to do the whole split personality. I mean even though even before it will be. It wasn't wasn't a lot of movies. But like i still feel is one of the best twists involving lake split personalities in and all that stuff and as i would like a very profitable vs not his best movie like a lot of people that i don't think that was trying to have it as number one but in a stoop his most popular movie still really good but a tattle rated elliott thoughts on fight club. I i think it's appropriately leah. Rated in regards to just the hype from it is does fall into a category of like a coal classy. As we mentioned it wasn't as successful as You know a lot of people might think it is but it was to me what stands out for me. Fight club is again being. Ns my first entry to david fincher. It opened my eyes so a couple of things number one. The incredible acting by you know edward norton in following his career. Ever since the in that film and also just kind of changing my mind on the quote unquote heartthrob actor in rap scene. That films me always kind of solidify. Rapid is like such a great incredible actor and also the collaboration with him David fincher in i. Just i just really enjoy it is. It is a bit longer to the news. Another film on things a little bit too long. And kinda just a welcome to stay but fight club. The the knowledge of the twiss doesn't really always still enjoy watching. Fm especially showing someone the film the first time the twin and all the hints throughout the film but it is definitely in my top tier of fincher best work but definitely one of the legacy to hold a special spot. Marcus my first time. See david fincher film and always sticking with me with that film so yeah awesome. All right next up is one that i will admit i didn't get a chance to completely rewatch watch for this is panic room I remember just buying a blind. Dvd by david fincher. I didn't get a chance to see is in theaters. And i did enjoy it for what for what was So i don't really have that much to add regarding panic room. I did enjoy. It's just didn't get a chance to watch for this. Go round elliott. I'll start with you here. Thoughts on panic room. Same with you. Matt didn't get a chance to watch it. I remember the one thing i do remember. Just the shot selection in the use of the camera in the house and the triple vibe to it and just kind of fill in in one location One of the things that always sticks with me with f. l. jared leto in the braids. I don't know at of hope that we get more collaborations with the reunion of jared leto. Brad pitt david. Fincher in the future goes eight. They worked with each other quite a few times but yet it's it's always something i remember regarding to. I don't know why. But i always wanted a panic room after seeing that film especially in cova of panic room right now but i don't know what it is is always remember The braids by jared leto and him getting shot in the face. Arizona came Ns cortez he stole it into departed jc thoughts on zodiac panic room. Because i know you saw recently is not as good as i remember like a still good but i remember liking it more when i first saw back in the in the mental thousands like this is basically a bi level movie directed by david fincher lake if it had been directed by him in the have the castle does it would have been a movie that nobody really talks about anymore. I mean it's not a movie that people talk about more. That much like after the game is probably underrated movie. But it's still really is a solid contained thriller and seen it seen now that we know that kristen stewart became as big. She is now 'cause a lot of people know when they talk about her. Just think twice the first thing real breaking she did not really but she's really good in that the corals still so bad so out of place for him justin timberlake. I think he had the the blonde that one point. Yup that's what i think about his lake jared Work remember like what we watanabe lake. Dwight yoakam characters is really despicable late. Like i wish he would have been the one that got shot in the Character all but that sledgehammer to the head. All the lake is the solid content thrillers like like little auto david fitches realm but i got the negative Is vital is probably. The actually made more money than i thought i did. I started bonded the box office but you know it was a movie that had is like issues where reception is call. Classic like any said so after all that he was dealing with the fight club reception. I feel like this is what he's gonna let. Smaller contain thriller that is really lamb play with some gimmicks yep i agree and full disclosure fellas. I also had the same idea that thought was. I was cool in that aaron i also had cornrows at. That's too oh. I need a pitcher i got i got you see. I got you think you had long. Oh man around that time. I probably like two years later. Because i started high school like a year after i decided like it's all hip to grow my hair out and braids and my hair was out to like my shoulder. All my god. I i my my inspiration. My inspiration at that time was to have my hair like alan iverson's i was just gonna ask you that. Don't see alan iverson Speed rail that was like the corn hair gonna Those those are the guides like the the sleeve when you playing ball. Oh your i had that i had. I had the sleeve. Hoist all my god. I after we finished. I'm gonna have to find these on. I didn't play ball and have a crossover as good as i. But yeah. I got you on that picture. It's quite embarrassing. But i oh next up. We have what i think is top top toppy toppy toppy top tier david fincher and that is zodiac. I did get a chance to watch this. And it is absolute perfection. Like this movie is what a thriller is made to be without you. Finding out who the killer is. It's what david lynch would have wanted twin peaks to be essentially where we don't know the killer is Zodiac is so good so good and the scene in the is it. The the workers room like the break room. Jc went and the at the end of the millennium No the the interrogation scene in the it's in. It's in the break room right really. So yeah that scene is top tier tension. It is so fucking good and the fact that you leave that scene kind of saying yeah he is zodiac killer. Burri not you. Don't find out for sure and no one ever does find out caralis. He is amazing in that scene. i don't think we talk about underrated films. I do see more people talk about zodiac that really know fincher ventures work but there are a lot of people that don't know this movie and i think need to know this movie. It's pretty much our dj before he explodes with ironman. A people like dizzy year before the year before mark. Ruffalo is incredible in this. I think there's this is the one that should have got it in his first oscar in my personal opinion but yeah we Did not get that and then jc zodiac thoughts. How great is it. Oh very very high on my lizzy guys you later. I'm a big to cry like this will be if this will be came on knowledge say last year. Obviously with ba. Let's say two hundred seventeen eighteen Ever since the rise of netflix's like we want me. I personally become super victims of crime stuff. And i've always been like back. In highschool ago forensic science. I've always loved zodiac because i'm a big to crowned buffs will begin to circle of stuff as like a like seeing minehunter. How you know it takes place like the seventies still like. I feel like this was like democrats. Seven took care of blake circus During the time period like affiliate zodiac was the first step of the incident. Essential working in mind hunter which i love but like the acting great. Rj should like the fact that his movie resume zero oscar. Nominations baffling the refrigerate should have gone native for his first direct Direction nowadays are dj. Duffy should have been off his best supporting actor like editing. This movie is so the movie. I believe like two hours and forty minutes but i am never bored when i watched the movie. I am fully invested the story on his great. And even even if you know that the killer was found you're still in your still engaging like for some people like when you find out that the the design me know conclusion like finding the that they might return off but was zodiac. It doesn't even matter the story that sending a so amazing and elliott thoughts on zodiac yet. I mean you guys pretty much nailed it a lot in regards to just the again. David fincher the way he handles it. The the store co. Accuracy in in in in the film also hall. That was one of my first jalen hall movies in just always carried on and even some of the stuff from nightcrawlers kind of plays into that role to me but Yeah it's a fantastic film. it's From top to bottom that i've mentioned earlier in regards to link. I'm actually those like one of the film's runs. It's a little bit too long to me. I still enjoy the hell out of it. The story and everything that nature but Outside of that man. It is a fantastic film in you guys Attention on the performances. Again artie j. Jake mark ruffalo. Brian cox everyone involved is probably one is more like as far as a samba. Cast is gonna win. Yeah so i mean it's it's it's incredible man in You know the crazy thing about it. It's just a creepy nature of the film again. That zodiac killer was never found. And it's just a really interesting film for sure gas and then Moving on the movie. That i think is still talk about long on the tooth So next up is the curious case of benjamin button. I rewatch us for the first time in twelve years This week and oh my it's a it's a technical marvel on division affects her pretty still really hold up the movie justice and it just isn't it's just so so long it's an. It's an intriguing like narrative. It just doesn't do it me. I don't think it's a bad movie. It's actually a very well made movie. It's just. I'm just not that interested. elliott thoughts on benjamin button yet. This is When we get to the list it's not high on my list. It's one i don't like to revisit. A from vienna nam fan of the bill was like hey you just mentioned i appreciate the visuals. Rapid great in cate blanchett. All the acting is really solid. It's just to meet the story just isn't as engaged is in like you guys mentioned it really early on as far as like one of the few protagonists david fincher film that you feel for you care for all that stuff just. He's just not my cup of tea. Jc like you visited for the first time. I saw it back until the like. I did like it. Felt like it was deserving of a lot of dumb nations but like on a rewatch like like. it's definitely feel like is oscar. be done david david I will say. David lynch david fincher style like the technical stuff obviously gives it a different angle than than most oscar bay movies but his more light movie because it has a likable lead. Which for david Does not really common. But this is like it's too long is like an Is the same right as forrest. Gump eric roth so. It has similarities sweating. You mentioned in one of the previous episodes david like it has a lot of style like going to time and everything but the visual effects is still amazing. Leg when i was rushed i was telling you like the brand to all the all the looks on bradford with the visuals like really really good stuff and his crazies washington. Now and see how. Big sean lee Became yeah 'cause like i look. I look at a lot of active stuff so i had no. He was in it. But i do not recall. I thought maybe it was. He was one of the people in the boat like i'll even though that he was quiz lake. Love interest so. When i watched it was good to see some of the actors that were any of that. Work had become bigger rapid as overly good very deserved oscar nomination and and I feel like Kay glasses characters. Jenny this yeah is the love is the love interest that says little kids but is like they should be together. They shouldn't and even with the with the child were having a child with him and everything but he can't really be a father to it. Yeah and to rajhi's toronto's good in it as well yet. She was fully deserving that asking she. I won't say she's the heart of the phone bud to lake. She's a very important emotional core of the movie. Yup alrighty so then we get to I think we all will be in agreement. His masterpiece The best script of the twenty tens the my number three movie of the decade. And it's in my top twenty five favorite films of all time the social network l. dot seeing that united it could be it in a negative of i adore aspect of this movie. It is one of those things that i remember where i was. I remember the first time i heard about this movie. It kinda was like a one of those situations that progressively the injury pr- progressively grew. I i heard about it on my facebook movies. This is gonna bomb than i hear. Then i hear sorkin writing then. I hear finishers directing and i'm like oh okay. Sure why not. Then i walk into that theater. And i see that i seen and it just hits so so well and i'm like okay. We're on we're on here. But i don't know if you feel the same way when atticus and reser score hitch right away and he's just walking through campus. There's just something about that scene. That has always stuck with me of just like him. Walking through campus. That that score. Which i think is probably top three of the decade It just hit with me but then we just go on and it just everything about that film it so engaging there's in reality there's not much to have really happened it's just a lot of talking. It's a very dialogue driven movie and for me. I think we did our oscar episode a few months ago. And i you know i said i would have taken away from convert but i really rewatch social network twice after that and i think jesse eisenberg his performance just gets better and better every time you watch it and i think and i'm gonna ask you guys as well. My it has my favorite david fincher movie scene. And that's the scene at the end aware where Andrew garfield finds out that he is pretty much getting cut from facebook and the percent of his ownership. And you everything works. It just blends in perfectly the score the editing the direction and yeah i mean yeah i i am deep throat in the shit. Out of the social network is i. I'd fucking love that movie. Jc thoughts on the social network. Same as you really love. It is very high money data center stuff number one But you know how i feel about. The script by album is one of my five favorite of all time Mama big sorkin fantasies like the ideal eversource can screw a lot like walking talking just very dialogue. Heavy like you i remember. I mean the first time. I heard about the movie was at shimon. David signed up. And you know like i when you guys are you're old. You're like Davis you're you're more info but to me out really know exactly what it was going to be about as her facebook going to move that than was going to be about the like the how facebook start at those people just like people using facebook and other stuff like that so you know. Whenever when they signed up i think zodiac. Got the seven. Thank fight club. I was going to be like for his bad movie while since eighty three but when i saw the first scene is fully hooked in and i saw the theaters. Like jesse eisenberg's Butter and. I don't think you ever be better. 'cause i feel like he. Nope has got into this kind of quirky rolling. The like american ultra even even on his version of lex. Luther is like basically march sucker berg. He plays like that character but more annoying. And it's just like the act screenplay the scores. It's amazing like i know a lot of people. I loved inception score. But i will not take away that that oscar from for that movie and then it was. It was my insured sahar. Armie hammer who. I'm a big fan. Of like. I told you i feel like he's a pretty boy trapped. I mean he's a character trapped in pretty boy's body like he is a great actor who she shouldn't be doing known ranger or any blockbuster movies like character pieces where he's a supporting character or something like gum comedy your name like. He's such a great actor loved his move for introducing the to him as an actor as well. Ami wasn't that wants to elliott has yet elia thought. Yeah me yeah you guys said it perfectly man not only did introduce you just mentioned are a big fan of too. I think even david fincher might have seen a little bit abrupt. It'd maybe armie hammer and hopefully you know he gets out of those like zillow rangers and and wounds on who like apart character. Oh my gosh. But yeah i mean you. Guys mentioned in jesse was phenomenal. Film andrew garfield. Oh my goodness at like that character to me is just so great and again. This speaks back to this. The the Sensibilities david fincher again all character-driven all character focus the creation of facebook gives talk on the opening scene. I think the reason why it took nine Moments are takes us because it's so intrical into how the creation of facebook happening regardless it's such a human level of broken up with created this conglomerate of corporations is so crazy to think of But yeah i mean again. You guys mentioned the score. The acting director in the direction is so engaging and so little happens in the film. it's literally just watching. People bicker decorate razak one of the biggest things in our. You know that we use in a social media platform so yet aaron sorkin. the Is really not much else to say is incredible incredible phil. Yeah question. I think gum look at the whole picture in twenty twenty With twenty twenty hindsight. Do you think that jesse jesse mark zuckerberg his reasoning for facebook. Does it come off in celie to you. He gets dumped. He makes the comparison site for women. Like it comes up very insulated crazy. Because everyone that will be first came out he was like oh that talked about the portrayal bottom but unlike seen all the stuff is going on now like the movie was as she very nice to him. Yeah i think so. He tries to say that. The the portrayed like this horrible person like like you said like watching now every watch did like like last week and i would just like yo bro. You should be happy. They portrayed as if they if they will ever make desi that that thing live sunday the article with wherever circus that he would love to make equal like for the for the second book. A second book to it but like it was a sequel lake. If it was to what both you'll be your preferred the petroleum gave me in social and there was a sequel. Honestly think that if this was to happen if they were to try to make a sequel opted second book it would turn into a citizen kane type of thing where mark zuckerberg will do everything for that movie nuts but see the light of day also but it will he would he would. He would definitely say that. He like the I'm like bro. They they treat you very nice in the mood competitive how you are now and would they give you know. Yeah and then. One last thing on the social network. I mentioned my favorite scene. What is your favorite david. Fincher seen if you have one elliott who. That's that's very. We are speaking on the subject matter. I mean social network is definitely up there. I mean when he when you know the scene when andrew garfield comes in and finds out about his you know. nbn cut and even you know justin timberlake's greatness into Just a whole there's been like clips online to show shot the scene in all that stuff. I wonder how many takes took but that definitely comes to mind for sure and then. Jc it would definitely be this scene like even though you told me about it like like two days ago like i still can't really think of but might like fate with you. Re watch his movie. There could be things you finally that you might love. You didn't love before just like things you discover more. That's also any movie last. The great thing about we watch him movies. You can find stuff that you that you like more knowledge. You didn't realize he liked before for. But i'll say this senior is a cliche but the ending of seven is to our economy too so perfect everything about his perfect of me. You saw it will be between. Wasn't the boxed and and this end the ending of social network for me all right perfect and then moving on i guess the ninety nine takes help rooney market this next raw so the girl with the dragon. Tattoo ivory watch this again for this and this movie has got up on my list and this performance There's there's so much to dive into the movie itself. But all i want to touch on just how amazing and incredible rooney mara is in this film. It is it's it's hard to. It's hard to imagine how the iron lady is better than this but it meryl streep is meryl streep Senator losing but i will say maybe you guys will agree. I don't think this role is a like a character. That would normally win an oscar at that during that time so i was to win so i can see why she didn't win but she so amazing aaron i personally don't think show ever be this good again But yeah i actually think. This movie is a lot better than i remembered. And on this re-watch it definitely went up on my list side j. c. thoughts almost same as you like i. I saw the swedish filling their good. But i out. I prefer this version any day of the week and it was like ours. Performance exa- is not one that will normally that would never win an oscar. We never know 'cause fucking character and joker like that might have opened the everything for like darker mussa. Maybe get wins. The nominations but her performances grade is even the dedication. Because i read that chechen nimble appears nipples. And everything like that like you. They could That could have been something that you know that you like a magnet or something but does her dedicated to the role as to why love her performance and then it's like a very engaging movie like shore some like the first time i watched even though the swedish version that was confused. Certain things like Out as the best that feels some things are just too dark. I got this urgency. That you really see what's happening but it is very high on my list. It's very quiet. It's a cold thriller like it's so cold like i could see why people if people don't like it. I can see it because it's such a very different way to get it is. There was always two more books and we never got the sequels which love because they official was game to do win ruining was perfect Obviously loves and given what we got with the girls spider's web Wish we would have gone. The sequel with david fincher but then those dislike. I wanted to touch on the on the on the racing like daffy number. When i saw it in theaters there was a lot of girls that even been two girls that walked out of the movie theater because a very graphics is eight you feel. I know. she's like screaming acting so green. That so i remember when the reversing happened when she tattoos stomach and everything there was a lot of people cheering in that seat and out even think they were offer that because at the scene the way she was raped like that for for surfer girls. That was a victory to see her go. There's a lotta nominee movies or shows show that you know the the victim gets event on on the person that harm them. I agree Elliott yeah i mean that that was well said man it's it is bleak dark But it is a fantastic film. The performances bar to lead the chemistry between day craig and ruining mara and i think again speak so again. David fincher being a great character driven actor in his his actors seem to have great chemistry. Might be for the reason the as a bunch of takes you kinda kinda have to get used to decide that perfection. But yes it's it's a great thriller. It's a it's like. I said it is very dark. His heart to kind of go through is a very great journey. Without these characters. I would have loved to have seen a follow up with that casts. Unfortunately you know. I don't know if you guys saw the sequel By february. But i wasn't a big fan of that but It's really great. I don't revisit it. That often as much as i probably should. I probably should visit us soon. But i i really enjoy that nice all right so last year we got gone girl. I dug disbelief may more than i thought i would But it's fincher so. I shouldn't have been surprised Outside before the way back i. This is like one. Ben affleck's best performances. I think he's really really solid in this film. That's stop to. Yeah yeah i would. I would not disagree with you there. i did not read the book beforehand so the twist. I definitely not see coming so when it did happen. I'm like this is crazy. But there's i mean the would you say roseman. Pike's performance is better than rooney. Jc it for me yet. Actually thanks okay. You'll you'll see where this film lands on my list. But yeah i think so personally awesome so i'll tickets you. What are your thoughts on gandara. It is a film that i remember. We talked about seeing that the theater. I've seen a quite a few times of the theater. I was just so blown away by the experience again. This relationship Is love the opening scene. How ties into the last seen. Just the journey accurate is go through and just the the nature of again as we talked about earlier with him handling thrillers. True crimes his thought that the you know the toxic relationship play out on screen is so great in you guys said it. You know. Ben affleck I think the more. I look back career. I think in my personal opinion. I think he's much stronger director than he is an actor but this is definitely one of his more top tier performances in direction. The suspense the Really great dialogue. That was one of the I think leftovers came out before a carrie. Coon made her appearance. But it was just like i was such a leftover high. I love keri under the she. Wasn't that interested in the movie but just love her in the movie as well in You know the the scene with the man's name nil patrick. Air pressure us. Yeah yeah that. That scene is still very haunting in in very dark in very sinister. But i'm a big fan of congo. You all we'll see where it lands on my list than and jc. You actually had affect that you show you mentioned about ganga rate was what the what the inspiration for him. Taking that movie on was something something about an ex wife or something. Along those lines movable at the thing was the that him in gary oldman had the same x one. Oh yes yes something. That was for manque less interested. I didn't know got equity met in the conversation. 'cause i'm pretty sure it has to be at least one of so outside of that. What are your thoughts girl. Oh same as did i. I adore this movie I actually read the book so like but didn't take away from it like i. It was still like the direction was amazing. So just seeing with the audience of people who didn't know the towards that amy was alive was gray like when she's driving the car. Remember people were like what the fuck in those like is like like i said. That's that's something. Ms about the theater experiences like taking it all in with other people and like rosamund pike character like why don't think is a better performance that rooney i food. Her cat is more complex. Has more layers is that rooney's character so much more to me but that performance should of one of the oscar. I know that Julian moore for still is. I feel like it was grip form. But i feel more like she's long been known as one of the best actors virgin ration- that was like her fifth nomination. I would just like we want to give the end the oscar. Now it's one of those. It's one of those that i mentioned like they weren't gonna nominate again and i'll give her the oscar so that's kind of what some not some. You should've went. Oscar is one of the best performance like before the way back. This was his best performance. Like like Character who. I loved her and fog while the leftovers. And i i love. The performance really liked the character. Like i feel like it was. You had a good. They never go. Ben affleck like i feel like she was like a voice of reason. Like i remember when Emily right up the models name but when he was like the morning at wink kissed her. Car you fucking kidding me. You know she was like she was a reasons like you're being accused of kenya wife. And you're you're banging your student suffer like she gave. The move was a recent in tyler. Perry for only has been great exactly like he actually diff- that shows how much like i mentioned to. We'll get into manque like every taliban Thing but it shows that what else when. He's that right his own material he has that right to eat. He actually be a decent saad actor. Yeah i agree all right cool. So let's let's close this out talking about his latest release which is manque is saw this of a few weeks ago and full disclosure. I m a avid avid fan of a snob level. Fan of nineteen thirties. Hollywood so i watch a lot of a lot of old hollywood films so immediately when the movie started i noticed the mono on the on the actors which makes it sound like a nineteen thirties film. I think this movie for me. It it is. I understand and i wrote it in my review. I wrote it in my reaction. I told anyone that listened to me. Mike this movie is not for everybody. Fincher wanted to make this film for signifies a new citizen kane then wanted to know about the politics in hollywood in the nineteen thirties. I think this movie is more about that than the actual making of citizen kane. And i'm totally okay with that I loved every second of it. I was engaged with every second of it. Because i knew the parties involved. I knew the whole story about willie randolph. Her i knew the whole story regarding the issues with citizen kane. The fact that they didn't The oscars it did not win. Did not win the oscar. It was. I will say like if there is some nitpicks mayenne. I wish they would have touched on a little bit. More the aspect of her trying to by arco studios because it just shows like the political power that certain people had a hollywood studios at that time. I did wish that we touched on that a little bit more. I don't hate the fact that we don't really have an emotional attachment to any character. I know that's been a lot of the negative Press that. I'm seeing regarding the film. I'm okay with that because of the actual for me. Actual theme of the film was more on the politics of the era rather than herman mankiewicz. So that's kinda where. I would say that i would disagree with some of the negative things that i've seen out there i think gary oldman's great in it. But i think amanda siegfried is the standout. I think she has never been better. I think she's my front room for supporting actress right now. And i'll touch a little bit more. But i'll kick that i'll kick it off to elliott on this yet. I mean everyone acknowledges that the it's a technical achievement think this is incident in my review. Dave offenders most ambitious film definitely a love letter on old. Hollywood into me is almost like you know. We talked a couple months about christopher nolan. And i'm thinking of dunkirk being his most accomplished film and just kind of really wanted to see the event. I think this is kinda in the same vein. David ventured into film. Where you know one of my criticisms. I do applaud the politics of the flashbacks that begin the scenes in the film in it was really engaging but i i actually really wanted to dive deeper into the the behind the scenes of the making of the film of citizen kane and kind of the you know the rumor of where it was influential rahman also the The credit that wales with the rewrites and really who wrote the film and all that wish we would dove a little bit more deeper in there Just because i am a big fan of just kind of the behind the scenes aspects of movies but yet the acting is superb. managed stafford. I've been following her. Since i mean girls in her. This is her best performance over a career. And i really hope this kind of launch into that category of taking a more serious roles into really just dive into a because she was great in the in the film In all the supporting characters. Tom pelfrey this year from this film to dark The manages a fantastic actor. And i think it's from top to bottom of really well done film. The emotional aspect did kind of connect with me in regards to some of my criticisms fell within just not able to necessarily gravitate or emotionally connect to a care to just because they were so much bigger than life type of characters. And and something that david fincher does not an even with aaron short had nothing to do with this film. But i sometimes when you have those films that are just like the characters. Such bigger laughter. The smartest person in the room and kinda not detach me. But i wish there was something. More to kind of gravitate towards an ability factor. But it's a really great film. It's something i'm excited. Revisit here in in the next few days is because i was watching this just like not knowing what suspect hearing all the hype being that a six years. We david fincher film that now. Coming down off that high and now knowing what the film is really appreciate what. It was really excited to kind of revisit here again. Before before giving the mic to jc. On this. i think fincher made sound. Like i said he made it for a specific demographic here but i also think that demographic that he made four knows every aspect of because i i'm okay with this particular part i'm gonna mention. You mentioned tom. Pelfrey a lot of people don't know who he played directly like joseph mangku. It's is responsible for one of the biggest the biggest oscar-nominated movie of all time all about eve but they don't even like anywhere near addressed the fact that he is going to go into that area but yeah mankiewicz directed all about eve. I believe you wrote all about eve. And i think he suspect he wanted us to already know that going in. And i think i do agree with what you said elliott in terms of the diving. Into the william randolph. Hearst thing I get that date in dive into that because of where he wanted to go the politics and stuff. But i do see where you're coming from with their with. They could've made willie randolph. Hearst be more of a villain than they really did because that's exactly what he was at the time so but jc take it away off similar to elliott like the only negative by the move as well as the. Aren't that likable lake which have likable cactus. But i would have liked to be like the movies very emotionally detached outlets at no problem. Bridges i wanted some more best volley negative to it but like same as you said. It's love letters old. Hollywood rat from the opening credits would discreet with the screen. Nineteen thirties like i was fully cooked and i felt like i was transported back to the thirties. The technical achievement like sada fake. The south If he's amazing like is gonna sweep that cynical categories like you sending you predictions david. The performance are meeting. Gary oldman does one of his best performances like ameri. You call them the comedian your review. The man could just transform. Its anything and he has the the dynasty as i as i some people might call overacting but i thought was a perfect scene for gary oldman. Because he's so good at doing these very out loud outlandish performances and stuff and a mandate. She's definitely never been better like semi review in. You agree david was like Like shows like what how would agree. Director give finch could do where he could bring out. A act is full potential. Who has reached it. 'cause i've always liked demanded from from mean girls. I'm donna how you guys who. But i'm i like jennifer's body for the is a very underrated cult horror horror comedy and i think she was really good in that and then is basically like i is not for everybody. Oh no i mean we definitely seeing how divisive it is like as a guess people last as for people who appreciate old hollywood who who love behind the behind c still one of moose about this is a med would and does what it reminded me. That sometimes the bottom of the black and white cinematography and everything. I love those like. We've urine to nineteen thirties movies. If your answer behind the make up movies and Of you know love and know about the makers of citizen kane moves four but is not for. Everybody says assessable that a bad thing is like you said is in this property. He made it for a certain amount. I serve people which tended people that vote for the oscar so i expected moods really dominate the oscars expected to get like thirteen from ten to thirteen nominations. And we've seen what bargo we've seen with the artists the move to hollywood. So as like this is gonna is gonna really dominate the oscars and elliott. Like you said you wanted to see a movie that dumb more behind the scenes stuff for citizen kane. I mean granted the quality's not the greatest because the tv movie but there. There's a tv movie. Called arcadia to eighty one is on youtube and it's like eighty three minutes of easy watched and is more about a Deals with like like would bring her trying to stop the movie but it does allow more with like the making citizen kane. Demand does which. I think you should give watch when you have a chance to definitely check it out yet and then last bit. I think they didn't touch on too much. I wish they did touch on this particular person. Too much Irving thalberg could we kinda see him as like the golden child and then he just dies so one of the things that he was he was reponsible finding a lot of the actors and actresses from that time. Because at that time you were owned by the studio you not privy to work for. Mgm are ko. You had to you know if you're signed to warner brothers you worked for one brothers And he's also responsible for grant hotel muny on bounty and before he died he was actually the one that found gone with the wind so just to show like he had such an impact on hollywood such a small amount of time because he passed away at the age of thirty seven so they didn't really touch on that. And i understand you know. They had a death through everything but like some of the people that he discovered were From that era. Joan crawford clark gable. Jean harlow greta garbo lionel barrymore so like he was responsible for all those people so Definitely look into that. Like if you're into old hollywood. But yet so that wraps up manque. I i loved it. It gave an extra on for me. Because of i love the period so much and i'm so interested in it but yeah i can do definitely see why it's As divisive as it is but with question about banquet. Quick for you guys especially kind of considering. David fincher deal with netflix. He's worked with netflix on. Tv or tv programming would make. Would you mentioned a make miniseries Four par-five part six part miniseries kind of really dive until the minutia. The stuff that you say you wish dole deeper into definitely. Yeah i think so. I think they could have dived in more to the to the actual beef between Hearst well and then i would have a Would have seen of orson welles. Because tom brady was he got the voice per to perfect perfect posture. So a miniature Would see more charles dance. I like i said he was born to play powerful malet. So gray like amedure's would got. We got more of hers of like. I would have seen like david. Said like how he really was trying to stop his move from getting released. So mini could just dived into a whole episode of him of like all that aspect. We've got a lot more of of tom. Brady as orson welles. I do wonder if. I mean this script has been around since jack vinca away. Gay was trying to get this. He was sent to make that the game. Yeah i wonder if also they didn't touch up to script even more. Because maybe they are working on an orson welles bio-pic that we make no just an assumption. I one may be some. Because he's such an interesting person that i would love to bio-pic with that Last thoughts bank citizen kane. I mean we've all seen citizen kane right like a requirement license sinophile. I don't think it's the greatest movie ever made. I think it's partly the most influential movie ever made. Because of the time in palm movies were made before citizen kane was cinematography and the and the going back and forth in time. I respect it for what it is do you. Do you think it's at least a top ten film ever made. It may not be your favor but do you think because of its influence you think at the top ten film ever made jc. Yes i do believe that put is not nowhere near my top to know like i said i respect it for what it is and i do feel is one of the actually like like you said. Filmmaking was one of the top five films that remain in that regard. What you elliott. Yeah there's no denying the how influence Wish was to the film industry. So there's this from that alone is definitely one of the top made films ever made but not in my topless. yes they got st. for me. I've actress definitely just curious. Singer thought all right cool. So let's just finish this up and nuts rank or david fincher films What i'll do is. I'm going to run through my eleven to two and then we'll finish up with an pass. It overall finish up with our number wine. So i suspect we all have the same last one Alien threes my number eleven My number ten is a curious case of benjamin button. My number nine is panic. Room here comes the damn. My number eight is fight club My number seven is seven Let's young man yemen. Whoa yeah you my number six. Because i feel it's so underrated i just wanna give some love. I propped it up. Just for this The game number six is the girl with the dragon tattoo My number five. I mean my number four is gone. Girl might number three is manque. My number two zodiac. Jc take it away said everybody. We all have the same last. One number eleven is alien three number tennis panic room number nine Number as the girl with the dragon. Tattoo awhile numbers remember. Remember after ten through one is all grace so no matter where you rank these tenfold. Yeah you're all good. You're is what him you know you're gonna you're gonna get some good really good movies at towards the end Number seven is fight club number six. The game number five is manque number. Four seven Don girls number. Three a social network is number two nice. What about you elliott. I so mine number eleven. Yes again aliens. Three three for three on the number ten is the curious case of benjamin button Nine coming at panic room Eight the growth tattoo Seven is the game. A manic five zodiac And we'll stop Three to do Fight club is my number four Seven is my number three in then Something at to what you number two social network awesome. And then i get my number one. It's no surprise from our discussion social network. I think it's so good so so so good And then jc number one zodiac. Is this as a true crime. Buff like that movie. Speak sending so many bottoms awesome and then elliott finishes off. Gone girl man. I am in love with that tragic toxic relationship. That's that's that's what taught me how to act in a marriage watching partner thinking always thinking absolutely ineffective. My wife loves ganga on that tour favorite dinner. I just makes me question. Everything has a book american. She's a big into books. I know the party her love for the book house of the movie. Yes she actually Before we finish off she actually mentioned night. The fact that's why congress our number one because that's one of her favorite books and the fact pitcher. He fincher was able to really adapt extremely well. That really pushed it to the top. Because she's not really big. On david fincher films i'm surprised she'd like mink quiet place flint. I'm a big fan of her work with sharp objects Euphoria was really interesting. This utopia was really interesting. I know a lot of people hated it because they compare it so much of the original Which i still have to watch But i know. Every time i speak to someone about they always compare it to the original show like take it away from the original where you think about the show but i know it and unfortunately i cancelled so the fact that it got cancelled. I still watch. It still allows even though we know. Not gonna continue. Have you seen the original. The okay so i haven't seen the original so i was. I went into a blind just kind of knowing that it was based on an all that. So i actually really enjoyed it But i know like. I say everyone in the comments was just like it's so bad Hold ridge met in the what people can not separated from the original zone. I had fun with it. And i wish we would have got into. Who knows maybe someone i think. That's that's the bottle sometimes. I'll wait for a show to finish Granted i think they're released all episodes at once right. Yep they gotta yappy they did. Yeah sometimes i wanna show gets canceled. It assuming on lake is even worth watching continuation. That has all of asking like is the worth watching like. Even if even they're not gonna continue it. I would say so. I had a good sound within. Also like i said it's sharp sharp objects. I'm a big fan. That show a. That's probably your best performance at their arrivals so great all right so that wraps everything up. If you love david fincher hope you enjoyed this week's podcast and we'll see the movies kids

david fincher chadwick oscar elliott elliott nail amc delroy lindo Fincher Hbo elliot david Warners murphy lake donnell Elliott bill max Ewbal Jared leto denzel Rami oscar munoz barry jenkins zehr new york
The Action Guys with Bateman & Ghai - Better Director: David Fincher or Christopher Nolan?

Collider Movie Talk

56:46 min | 2 years ago

The Action Guys with Bateman & Ghai - Better Director: David Fincher or Christopher Nolan?

"The following program is brought to you by your friends at podcast one. Don't forget to download our new podcast one out. Is maybe them is my we know on a stars goal shoe own full. Tell me what you do to me cafeteria. Ain't nothing new TIMMY, you could bring a bullet. Bring swore bring a more. But you can't bring the trophy to me. Alexa, play Kendrick Lamar and says, okay. With Amazon music. A voice is all you need get tens of millions of songs. Download the Amazon music app today. Hey, come under Francis. Is John Rocca? If you like our shows, you are going to love zan's world on podcast one world traveller, author and alcohol aficionado Zane lab is well learned in the art of having a good time as he reviews, the best attractions and destinations on the globe. And shares the craziest stories behind his travels checkout zan's world every Tuesday podcast one or get your favorite podcasts is Ron Don. Somebody who's somebody Chen body. somebody. Alexa, play hits from Queen. Okay. With Amazon music avoi- says all you need get tens of millions of songs. Download the Amazon music app today. I guess what's going on? I'm Ben Bateman. And I'm Andrew guy, and we are the action guys. We're here to talk to you guys about who is the more definitive director of our generation David fincher or Christopher Nolan. We'll see you guys and just one quick second. Here. We are separate tins episode to gave us the green light as they say. I can't believe they were dumb enough to give us the green. We've locked the door. They can't come in. And they can't take us out. Holy crap. Is excite is really exciting. Yeah. We did a pilot last week or I guess we're filming this we feel now last week a CD's about a week apart. It was one hundred killer Butler Jared Butler just us talking about him for a long time. And I think it was somewhere between some probably this much film knowledge, and like this much of our impersonations of Gerardo got us the gig. I agree. I watched back our impressions of Jerry be several times. I enjoyed it. It was it was very good. Yeah. But yes. So now, we're on the collider network run. The you know, you guys got to do we had a sale these new things he has got to see a scribe to the movie talk feed. You guys want to check out podcast one. If you're an Android user like myself, if you're not what are you idiots us over, and it's just it's a little little, you know, company on Cupertino. So apple apple where oh, and you guys can just wear go into Apple's store and just type in anything. So it's on the cloud. Oh, it's on the cloud. So you guys can subscribe podcast one. Apple podcast, all the places. You mentioned we are on the cloud network. This is actually the movie talk feed. So if you guys are hearing this you're probably hearing this because you enjoy the show that breaks down movie news and a very very organized way. We're gonna just take a big dump on this Mike right now, we had to do our intro three different times work together for almost four years. And I think they'll very lasting we have to plug as the actual collider podcast YouTube channel. So we're on all of those things we are so excited. We'd been big fans applied or for a long time because the tribute schmo down and like bender. So those gave us his show. You guys may know us actually from the movie trivia modern where we play data the drew guy in Ben the boss Bateman. Do you have a match. I have a match. Yeah. I think I will be playing in the first round of the singles tournament up here pretty soon because I beat both Janine the machine and lawn Harris in the gauntlet item them both back to back, and you know, who you have to play. Yes. Yes. To play. Yes. Yeah. Yes. She she's my enemy after the law. Event. Our enemies. I mean, look I've lost a Clark, I know pleased about it. I know I know, but that's neither here nor there what we are here to talk about today something that you, and I have discussed for a very very long time. Because there's a lot of directors of our generation there's a lot of directors excuse me. Let me let me rephrase that there's a lot of directors that people have our generation adore this Berg's, the Cameron's the Tarantino's. But really when you talk about people that are our age thirty born in eighty eight like, you said Reservoir Dogs and Pulp Fiction came out when we were less than eight years old less than ten years ahead of our time. And also, I think that there's a there's an important line that you have to draw when you talk about these directors because there are tourists who like these guys that have like really really well loved films that are seen by very small audience. And then there's the moment that those directors either early in the career or like break in in a way where they're movies become offense. Right. That's what fincher and Nolan have become an art in our lifetimes is you know, the very beginning. Right. Like David Fisher's first movie, he gets alien three and. Okay. It's the Ilian franchise. He loses creative control. It's a whole debacle his next movie seven right to movies later. He does fight club. You know, he had made by six years in he had done two of the defining movies of the nineties on the other side of the coin you've got Nolan and he comes up a little slower rita's memento. But then he rips off the Batman just a few years later in the middle of it. He doesn't -ception and then when he finishes he does interstellar defy he like defined the superhero genre before it was even supposed to be what it is now against you take it to a hold on the level. But these two guys are responsible for I would argue a twenty four year old filmmaker today probably grew up watching movies wanting to be them. Like, they grew up watching Spielberg like we'll be talking about these guys. Like, we talked about the Scorsese's in twenty years. I I already feel we do. But like, they don't have the elder states have. Yeah. You gotta have the decades and generations of that of that catalog, so it's really tough, man. Like, how do you actually break down and decide who is the better one between these two other than just being like, well, I like this movie more hundred scent look full disclosure, guys. You're gonna you're gonna listen to us and watch us do this. And we had to have the conversation off camera before like what stance are you going to take? And it's pretty ambiguous. Because I I'm pretty sure we both know, but we both didn't tell each other. And we're not going to tell you guys till the end I said going into the conversation. I was like I may talk myself out of my opinion at the end of the show because I love there movies so much and like in that sentence when you were telling me that you might talk yourself out of it. I in my mind since I just finished watching one of their movies. I was like I bet I could talk myself out of it too. That's called inception. I did that. Did you just accepted you? Well, Christopher Nolan wins. So yeah, it's definitely an interesting conversation. They both made so many movies that we both love. And if you guys want to follow along with the conversation, you know, share your thoughts be sure to tweet at us. You can find me Ben Bateman media, and you guys can find me at Andrew guy, and you can find actually we have show an hour long show that we do dedicated to one movie at a time called action movie anatomy, it's on the popcorn talk network. We've done like three years worth of shows. You guys can check that out. We actually are doing an episode on fight club. Incidentally, which will probably have aired a couple of days before you hear this. So if you wanna here's to a single breakdown of that movie, you can hear that. Yeah. And and that shows Twitter's called team action show, which I think is really funny. I know is that did you look at me to make sure that was correct. Because we always we always do it. And it is team action show. I had to double check just to make sure that's what I was doing as you were talking. And then just that look made me second guess myself. Yeah. But yeah. So we'll be breaking that down. I totally forgot what my point was. I think the point is. I think the point is that if you had to define these directors by one scene in one movie, and this isn't to say that it's the only seen right? But if you were to think about like when you think David fincher in your mind, you think Christopher Nolan in your mind. What's the movie scene that gets you the most fired up like this is this genius is to me? Well, one of the things that you've said so far that I really loved was that whenever these directors come out with a movie, it's an event. Yeah. It is. I think one of the biggest things about those directors is that they all have very specific style about the way they direct now. It doesn't have to be as crazies are man. Tony Scott where it's like a little heavy handed. But you love it. Nobody's genius. Tony scott. It's clear. We will just cover all of the Denzel. Tony Scott movies on the show. Always simply it's clear that these guys have to very very distinct styles. Now you've got Nolan and feature both have the non linear storytelling. They're very very good at doing the non linear storytelling, however, Nolan loves fantastical and the big the grand like, it's it's a scope film. Whereas fincher. Yeah. Is much more. He's much more intimate. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Okay. That's an interesting word right there intimate. Like, I would say both directors are defined by the cold style with which they tell their stories, and they're very procedural in their beats like the scenes never feel like they're lingering. Unnecessarily? They always sort of feel like they're just like, okay. This is this is as tight as they're going to get it. Yeah. But I will say that I think the nature of the films that no one has taken on have made it just so that we've never seen fincher directed. Batman movie, he's never done a science fiction epic. I mean, the closest thing was alien three. But like he does murder stories. He does like really really tightly crafted suspenseful thrillers. Whereas like Nolan does a whole different kind of movie. And so the style that they bring their movies. I think it's affected by the combat content. You can't avoid it. Yeah. And so I think you know, you, and I sat down we kind of had a conversation about like, what are what's seen either of their entire filmography? That kind of a pit him is all the things that make them. Great. I would jump in first with adventure moment. Okay. And it's it's the lake murder scene in zodiac. It's one of the most terrifying. Scenes ever it? I get chills just thinking about it. Because it's it's so Naro it's just so gnarly and so real an intimate. Yeah. And like there's just nothing else. Hap- is just silent. It's like the lake water. You know, and the way they set that scene up where like they're just like peacefully and like you see him in the background. And you're like, I know something so bad about that. And and he's ducking behind the trees, and she's like, there's someone watching us. And then when he liked ties them up, and he's trying to talk them out of it. And for a second the weird creepy is that he almost lets you think that he's gonna get away. He likes shows them the gun, and he like takes out the gun and the bullets be like, I'm not kidding around. But then also you're like, maybe he's not because usually just shoots him, right? Right. Right. Right. And then this adding and making making them tie other up and then the stabbing. Yeah. And like, so the reason that you, and I think that this pit of misers fincher. So well is for many reasons, you know, you get you get honestly, just like the disturbing. He's very very good at the disturbing. You look at seven if you look at even the scene in gone girl when Neil Patrick it's his throat slit right throws, slow boxcar, Mike God with a box cutter in like literally every scene in seven when you find out one of the the sins like oil my God, when they have the one they have the one guy, and he has to wear the apparatus, and he's crying, you think about the things that have been done in that movie and each of them is incredibly unsettling. Yes. And this this scene is the same kind of thing. I think the other thing David fincher is notorious he's notorious for being known for doing like seventy five ticks. You've heard actress talk about this a lot. And it's because he has some just like incredibly meticulous idea of what he wants the scene to feel and look and unless he gets it, exactly. He just knows from watching it happen. He's not going to be happy. So he'll do scenes eighty times. Which is why I found out. I was doing research that fincher will CGI full backdrops like all of the San Francisco cities cityscapes even in the scenes in the city like when Ruffalo by a cab, for instance, just the background of nineteen seventy San Francisco is all CGI, and he does that because he wants it to be exactly photo realistic accurate, which is why he does blood splatters and murder scenes. We see. So he can reset the scene over and over again quickly and shoot it eighty times a day, which is out like imagine being the actor on the eighty take of getting shot. There's no blood. There's no anything and you. I mean, you're literally just at that point. You're not even acting anymore. Right. You were just going through the motions again until David fincher is happy. But that scene has all those things in it. The blood at the end, I think it's fake lot. At the end has got to be fake and address just because that, you know, in his mind, he's like I'm not going to pay for a new dress a reset. I'm not gonna waste time. In case, she hiccups in the middle of her scream not gonna deal with David fincher. I don't do that shit. Yeah. So let's talk about that scene. Again. We've got the grotesque we've got the intimate. We've got the disturbing. You've got the the beautiful beautiful cinematography. You've got the actual thing that you always talk about with him, which is the the technology behind it in with the CGI and the blood and the most important part, which is the suspense and tension because that's what fincher does better than Nolan like clearly better than he makes movies where you are so worried about what's about to happen. The next moment in the movie, he makes edge of your seat movies in a way that no one does. Yeah. He pulls that from Tarantino very very well to build the slow build and also just the scene. You know, it's going to go bad. If there's no good way for this seem to end, and as that lake scene goes. Yeah. Oh, my f- horribly. And when she flips over she's just a stabbing. I'll make oh. And like also. Being that there's something about. Forgive me for my ignorance, if that's exactly how they killed that couple of the lake like, the hog-tying and everything. But like if not, you know as a visual genius. He's like if your hands are behind your back your stomach, and like the turning just visual of the just like the weakness of that behind it. I really love zodiac. I really I have found as I've gone back to watch it again that I love the pacing of that movie. And I love the way that like, it drives. I love the way that it drives. Jalen hall, crazy. And I also loved it. Everybody involved in the case like even Ruffalo like that seen when he comes to his door, and he's get out of here. Get away from my house. Yeah. Takes into the diner. And he's like laying out his great. I'm a police officer like you'll have to be little more compelling. He's like, okay. I'll give you one better. And he's like not a hundred yards door to door. And you see Ruffalo is and he's like, oh my God. Yeah. All these years later, we actually might. And he's still just like all right? I find give me the files like the night do. Yeah. And the yeah. No. That's that's and that was when I called you. Because you you'd seen you you you really love venture. And you actually had gone through and washed all ten of his movies recently. And I hadn't seen zodiac in a very long time. Yeah. Really ever. And I went and I watched it. I remember calling you afterwards and just being like, holy crap. Yeah. He he took the actual case of zodiac, and that open ended just wanting the end wanting a conclusion, and literally made you feel the way that those cops must have felt in San Francisco when the movie ended because you were like, you're like, I know, and it's funny because you get older this is this is actually a very very interesting point based on our age here is you know, that movie came out in two thousand seven. Yeah. And when that movie came out we were both nineteen years old. So I remember seeing theaters and thinking like that was like compelling, but not satisfying. And not understanding why that was important and all these years later now, and I watched it again, I'm like this is what made this movie grape. Which is when miss it at the time. Which is why so many people go back so many of our friends out in in that lob. We right now talk about how zodiac is the best thing that ever did. And it's because as an audience when it came out we wanted an answer wanted to conclusion, and that's one of the things about movies that you love is you actually like open ended kind of AIG endings are weird. Yeah. In the zodiac one is so perfect for that movie. You really walk away from your like holy shit. This is exactly what happened in San Francisco in you, go into the movie knowing son Osama's have been caught. Yeah. You're not expecting him to get caught. Anyway. Right. But you still are left wanting. So on the other end of some saying the same thing, it's not right, isn't it? Yeah. Aren't into. No. I mean, the zodiac killer. It's no son of Sam as a story about the zodiac killer. That's correct. Oh, they're two different things. I've thought you just about blew my mind. I just said son of Sam because I was thinking of another open ended thing that never ended in San Francisco, and that was another murder. Yeah. Okay. Sorry, my apologies. Everybody. I wanted to about you just pretend that you had said something that was right. And I knew it the whole time. I was like wait if he's not right, then I just degrade them. We're both know that where we were both wrong. So on the other end of that like you said, no one is known. And and I think so, you know, this was your suggestion. The CNN I agree with you totally on us. I think this is a really really great indicator algae take over here. Yeah. I mean, so you talk about the things like the non linear storytelling. Obviously is the thing that both guys execute fantastically. But the other thing is that no one writes most of all of his own films. Yeah. At the end of in session, right? The wake-up the wake-up the three layered wake up with the music going through kick, the car all of it. The kick the car the hallway everything is in the fact that you are sitting there watching it being like, I know exactly what's going. On. Yeah. I am completely in on this. I know everything there's something about imagine being a director or being anyway, just yourself. It sounds like, hey, I have this idea. Yeah. And they tell you the idea over the course of six hours, and you don't really understand what they said because they're trying to explain inception to you. And then they're also like over the next hour is being like, I want it to visually. Look like this all up at the same time. So right when this happens. This guy's falling off the bridge, and this things happening in this guy's waking up and this person's dying in like it is so masterful and it's beautiful like inception is so beautiful. So going over the characteristics in the that define Finch. You know, one of them has multiple timelines. That's the thing that you get an almost every one of his movies. He's very famous for it. He loves the do it. He loves to cut between his timelines without indicating seven years earlier. Right. Doesn't ever do that shit? It's just done by the set design and the costume design the character and the make up all that. Yeah. Ver- very like there are there's a style of editing that I remember noticing when I watched that a part of the first time it's very kind of similar every scene in. The movie feels like it's moving faster than you can keep up with it a little bit rights. That's the thing. No, one loves to do Dunkirk is the probably worst example of it working. It does work, but it's super confusing, but this movie this multiple time line and all them happenings at the same time. That's that's a beautiful beautiful moment. And yeah. And you'd like you talk about things like, you know, what made lock stock so famous in fact, if you had all these stories converging on the exact same moment, but they were all in the same time line. They're on the same place there on the same city where this is in literally different universes. And it's. The hallway scene because he's always done this thing with bending reality. And I think that inception. It's done better than it's done an interstellar seller because you watch interstellar into kind of like what the hell's of going on here at the very end. Yeah. Her with it. But you're kind of not whereas inception. Is you just get it? You get it the whole time even at the end and with his wife. You talked about being scary. It's like Marion Cotillard is horrifying on that movie. As scary as there is with the broken glass, the intimacy and they're seeing so it's like Nolan. He gets it. He gets the relationships the same way that fincher does. But instead of going in deep on the relationship he goes in on the room. You know what I mean? I agree sets up the scape of the room as you said, he's like a bigger picture thinker. Whereas fincher can just focus on two people talking in a room for two hours Nolan. It feels like would never create a cityscape from CGI. That's not wouldn't be his style. He would never shoot he would shoot the real cityscape and max, and he would spend forty million dollars somehow, creating it it look older. He just just what he would do. He's that's that's way, more his style. It's also funny like you can see the reflection of Christopher Nolan the way that his characters act and dress like their mill driven movies. You always see when Nolan is out somewhere. He's always got like the suit or the coat with a scarf. He's always like pretty well. Groomed. His lead characters tend to be that same exact way. Whereas finches are much more real people way. Grittier? You always see you always see fincher in the pictures venture. He's got headphones around his Nagy a hat on unsure. A hat on. He's unshaved on you. You know, he looks kinda schlub your that was like, so it's fascinating. When you look at that. It's like e that's such a great thing that your it's like you look at Nolan. Yeah. As a man in his characters, and they really do just follow suit with him. Also fincher is much more fascinated with driving his films with female characters that very true. Which is I think in some ways, I would give him a lot more credit for that. Because it's such a rare feat to make films from major from mass audience and expect them to sell as well. One hundred percent. Like he's done it with probably at least half is movies. Right. Right. So he's got girl with the dragon tattoo. He's got gone girl, Ellen Ripley. He's got panic room. He's got like almost. Yeah. That is interesting. Yeah. Ellen ripley. Okay. So for for the defining scenes of these guys we've taken the lake scene from zodiac one of the most gnarly gruesome horrifying to watch scenes, and then you got interstellar or excuse me, inception on the other hand the three layer wake up, which is fascinating. Beautiful mind-blowing. How do you decide which one's better from just that you can't you? Can't we have to we have to go down a path, you we are going to talk to you guys about the critical acclaim, and the awards consideration that these are actors have garnered we're gonna talk to you guys about the actors they've directed and how they've direct and finally we're going to talk about the peak of their careers, and who has the greater peak before we get into it. I wanna remind everybody here, drew. I mentioned that we are part of the movie tradition mode. And we have a little behind the scenes show that we do. It's called patriotic com slash team action. That's joe. It's actually called the team action secret headquarters can find them at patriot comes flash team action. But we we do like behind the scenes match reactions. We do like a fans admitted top you guys. Like, send us an idea. You want us to break down your top five incher movies. We'll talk about your top five things like that. Yeah. Trailer reactions, we're we're actually some new suggestions came out today of of someone was like what's one movie that one of you guys love the other one hates? And we'll talk about why we do or don't go in the and then the other one was we started doing these live not live, but they're actually one on one or two on one phone calls with with a lot of the viewers. We have like Skype calls we're doing so. So you check out the levels there. You can see there's a lot of fun fun ways of interacting kind of get it on the conversation. So Patrono com slash team action and one more time before we get into the second part of the shows big. Thank you to collider for bringing us in here to do this. We've been such a big parts of this moving machine in terms of our love for it. We want to be involved in any way, we can and to finally be here doing a show on a week to week basis. Hopefully, we fucking listen. We're just really excited about it. So yeah, let's get into these these three pieces of their careers. I say let's start with directing the actors because I think a nice transition something that you, and I are both very very you are an actor. I'm an travel for your work. Yeah. You actually have been directed by numbers of people and had to like do take after take. It's not something I've done as much. Yeah. And it's like you think about working for either of these guys and it's kind of horrifying. I would definitely be way. More intimidated to work with fincher though, because I just know about the way that he is. And with the way that I am in this hard to not get frustrated when you're doing something fifty times in a row who's your other work with who would I rather work with probably Nolan. Yeah. I think it'd be sweet to just say I was a Christopher Nolan movie. Yeah. It'd be sweet to say I was an adventure movie too. But like, I it's tough. They're both events. Yeah. Right hundred percent. So you talk about directing actors, and like, I think the easiest most barebones way to do it. It's just like look at awards, and I think off the top of your head since you're much better movie trivia, when it comes to Oscars than I am it's like it's not even close not even close for there's four acting nominations on the venture side and only one on the one side. However. No one has the only win for ledger. Yeah. Which is which is far and away. The most impressive performance by any actor in any movie that either one is directed. And I know that I know that Nolan had a big part and white ledger was the way that he was ledger had a bigger part and white who was the way one hundred percent. And I've seen this behind the scenes bits about it. You've seen all talk about it. You've seen ledger. Talk about you've seen him slowly slip into depravity. Just insanity. You watch that really old interview with what's his name. Tom waits stole the ROY soul. It. Yeah. He's got the joker book and everything. So like I would as much as I love Nolan. I think I had to completely agree that if you look at it from a strictly award point of view. Yeah. It is venture. Now, here's a really interesting part about this. So both guys came up in the late nineties right in the first movie by Nolan is following the nineteen ninety seven not the following is following the first movie by fincher is nine hundred ninety three. You know, he starts a little bit earlier. Just by a few years, but in terms of where they went in their careers. And when people really started to take seriously what they were doing beyond being sort of like cool genre movies. It's that mid-2000s point. But the difference here is in two thousand five criminal and took on Batman begins. Right. So he goes begins. Oh, five prestigious six dark Knight. Oh, eight inception. Twenty ten what the same time on the other side of things you've got fincher, and he's coming off of his panic room tobacco to comes back with zodiac Ando seven a little bit of a not the best. But he follows it up with Benjamin button. He falls it up with social network dragon tattoo, gone girl. Every single one of his last four movies has had a an acting nomination at the Oscars. His last four in a row the world is taking him so much more seriously as an art director it took so much longer for them to catch up the Nolan. Yeah. Yeah. You know? And it's one of those things like I'm sitting here. And I'm thinking about the type of actors that they've directed. Yeah. It's like they actually all have stellar casts. Like, even look at zodiac. Now, those guys though, this is the difference though, is that when's Odia came out. How popular was Ruffalo? How popular was already J Jilin hall was the most popular by far, right? Oh, seven man. You're like you're like right on the edge of all of them. Because like right ruckus is the whole five years later, but he was a character. Actor people liked ironman hasn't come out yet. He was on his comeback trail and Joan hall at that point. He hasn't done his he he he had done two years prior Brokeback. So it's point behind this. Is that hindsight you look back? You're like holy shit. Look at that lineup. Yeah. But then you look at Nolan in the thick of it. Look at inception. Yeah. He had a leg up on Tom hardy. That's it. Everyone else. Leonardo DiCaprio Marion Coates yard Jordan goose Joseph Gordon, Levitt Ellen page challen page like Killian like the whole cast as it is that their pinnacle, essentially Eichel Kane. It's just an all star cast now to be totally fair to him. It's following up the dark Knight, which is the most definitive movie in the superhero generates yes, so Nolan is working with like more bullets in his gun. Feels like he had a lot more clout. So then let if you go back to something earlier on you talk about like memento, the acting in mental by carryanne and guy Pearce are absolutely phenomenal. Then again, so like one thing that I loved to talk about is someone like Darren Oscar dared off you takes actors out there that you think about like, my favorite example is Marlin wayans in requiem for a dream. Yeah. Marlon wayans isn't a good actor now he's proven time and time again, he's just really not. But you know, when you watch requiem, and he will blow your damn mind. Yeah. So now the question for me is when you look at Nolan and you look at fincher who's a bad actor who someone who's not that great who's in either of movies. And I think it's is it is it just got to be Jodie Foster. Just kidding. Jesse Eisenberg like, I know Jesse icebergs, a pretty good actor, but. Then the style of who he is in in that social network is probably just kind of who he is like some bad actors that are in their movie like air Roberts, pretty bad actor like like my question is is like is there performance from either these guys where you look at it. And you're like holy shit. He took elevated him like to the next because that's what a great director does. I mean, I would say Rosamund pike to me is the easiest example. I've that's critics. I've never seen another Rosamund pike rolls. Don't like her that much. I was that impressed. I mean like she was fine in hostels like she was good enough. But like she most of her career dating all the way back to doom. Yeah. I mean, she wasn't very good way. Back to do. She wasn't great in Beirut. Like, there's a lot of these movies that she comes out in that. You're just like all right. And he makes her about as good as I've ever seen any actress. She's she falls in that movie that is her Magnus opus her, man. This is supposed to be magnum. I don't even know what it is it for a while and steal it from you now because it sounds Larry. Assess. I think I got a I think I gotta give it to them. Like, I'm trying to think of a role, and this is one thing where I miss having a live audience. Yeah. Is where I like ask them me. Like, hey, guys who someone because you know, there's someone into Nolan movie somewhere where they're like who Rutger Hauer actually a crappy want. He's not. But you know, what? I mean. Yeah. Where it would be like that. Right. I think like good examples bad like bad actors in their films like, okay. So look at I got turn around taking taking Gary Oldman and making him like this that is that could just be Oldman. But it could also be your director being like, look, man. You are like this everywhere you go expect. It's now if you bring it down to just the best Commissioner, Gordon in your words, love them ever. And you've read all the comic books. Yeah. Ever. Maybe. I mean, I dunno flaws. I mean, I I would say just because it feels like his movies or more dependent on the performances of his actors. I give the leg up to fincher here pretty easily. Just I mean, more nominations more interesting like more like a Nolan movie is as important for. For every like, the I cameras in the scope of it and the pacing and the time these procedures probably your favorite Nolan movie. I don't know. That's a really tough. I love movies so much. I love the prestige adore them. So you look at something like that. Everyone in. There is great. You know, I think I think you're right. You just gotta give it to fidget. Because even though in the movie like the prestige where the interpersonal relationships are more important than the fantastic. I still think venture pulls it off better. Yeah. Agreed. And I mean like what's the one of the best? Well, okay, before because I think that this will segue nicely and our next top, okay, which is career peak. So oh, okay. So yeah, you know, what this is a better segue. Because that's that one is where we're going to finish the conversation. This part of it should be awards because we just talked about Oscar nominations. Okay. Okay. So I think it's probably more pertinent to talk about how they have been recognized to this point like I can just open up instead of pulling out my phone just open up your brain. I've got it right here. Actually from an acting perspective. Both directors have four or sorry interest four nominations, and it's into thousand eight Brad Pitt lead actor for Benjamin button. It's two thousand and ten Jesse Eisenberg lead actor social network ruining Mara two thousand eleven for two and finally two thousand fourteen Rosamund pike and lead actress for gone girl, whereas know side, it's just Leger. It's just like, okay. So so here's the other thing. I've heard this from a good friend of mine who is actually a very high producer and one of his movies won an Oscar last year. Christopher Nolan's asshole who no one likes deal with. Right. And it's because of exactly what you hear from all the people of the cameras and the Spielberg's adventures, they're assholes, they only do what they want. And that's why there's such great directors. Now, there's a difference between being kind of an asshole when you're on set, and then kind of being condescending and person. And I think that's what I gathered from this is the kind of just like an uppity bitch from from what he literally his words. Yeah. And this is like a head like a high up studio. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And he says that's why no one hasn't won an Oscar yet. Yeah. Do you think? That's I mean, I know the Oscars are political now, I don't know enough about them to speak on this. First handedly. I mean Nolan okay. From the political aspect Nolan got his first best director nomination. Let me see picture and director for Dunkirk and picture and writing for inception. He didn't even get a best director nomination for inception, which feels appalling following up the dark night for him. The not get a best director nomination in two thousand ten against the movies that were nominee. Wanted to like ludicrous. It's ABS, yeah. We don't even need to go through because you guys look it up look at the movies that he was going up against the fact that he did not get best director nam. Yes, absolutely absurd. I mean, I know for a fact social network in king speech, both got so so king speeches one I think we can just talk about that time at Tom Hooper and David fincher both were nominated for best director in two thousand ten. Thanks, Tom Hooper got it over Nolan for like an incredible performance out of Colin Firth. Yeah. Again, it's like you didn't give Nolan the best director nod for dark night, but you gave it to heath for the greatest performance ever. Like, I it just doesn't really make sense. When when you're using that kind of thinking I had to guess off hand, I would say David Russell, probably got one for the fighter. Oh, yeah. A lot of got like six nominations is really good movie. Good movie. And I would guess probably the last one is a decent chance that Aaron osteo and for black swan. Oh, yeah. That sounds completely correct. I might be the five right there. Yeah. That's just feels. I mean, they're all great. They're all great. I just feel like that Nolan should be in their over over, sir. It is absurd. Yes. Thank you. Thank you. So, but but all the other awards, it's like neither of them have go ahead, please. So so I was going to say the first and only best director nomination for Christopher Nolan is Dunkirk. And it's sort of like, that's the that's the that's the tube. One. You're supposed to get after dark Knight. Yes. That's the Najjar. Getting finally it's like the world is like finally saying, well, you're making a World War Two movie instead of making like a science fiction epic or a heady like weird Alta reality or a superhero. It's fine. Never had any motivation to go back and rewatch it literally sitting in my room yesterday. Looking at both guys entire filmography. The moves I'd seen the least were Dunkirk social network in and insomnia. And I literally watched social network, and then I turned on seven after I'd watch fight club. Because I like you said I have no desire to go. Watch Dunkirk again, I totally and that's the nod. So then on the other side on the so now on the the last one is that Nolan did get a writing nomination for memento. So his initial introduction of Hollywood. That's like when the world is still just like we're gonna appreciate this thing you've created. And that was also memento was one of the biggest mind blowers ever in the movie ever game change at the time fincher on the other hand got better economic nations for the curious case of Benjamin button. And the social network has two thousand eight and his two thousand ten films. Why for Benjamin button because the technology isn't isn't just venture. Yeah. I think it's something about I've still never watched that entire moving. It's I've watched two hours of it's the least compelling. Well, that's not true. It is. There's a part in the middle. You said is phenomenal. Yes, it's the least compelling of his of his good movies. Right. Like, the 'cause like, this is this is a controversial opinion that I have. But I think the David fincher second half of his career is greater than his first. And that would mean that I think that his career has it doesn't include seven and fight club is better. Right. Because we're about to get into the peaks, which we're not there yet. Yeah. So so both these guys had never won best director. And then owns gotten one nomination in Russell's got I mean fenders gotten three two two. They're both pretty I mean considering that we're talking about two guys that we basically believe are the definitive directors of our lifetime. Right. And we collectively between their twenty films have to re three nominations is absurd. It seems are we wrong? I mean like you look at guys like you look at guys like Spielberg and source as you. And if Scorsese puts out a movie, it has a strong shot to get a best director nomination every time. He's got nominated like seven times Spielberg's but nominated like six times like yeah. What about Tarantino to maybe I'm looking at right now, it'd be once actually it's just crazy to me. So why what keeps winning best director every year? Just the director of the of the movie like angry has won best director twice. You know, he's a very good director. Ben is and been both cases though, his films didn't win picture that you're right. Which is a weird. Yeah. I always say I was thinking I was interesting lifelike high you made at one yesterday fraternity life of pi I like life apply never seen it. It's good. Yeah. So I guess with awards to what you call it. Couldn't just call it a wash it feels like injured has more Nolan has the one you have adventures are largely because of his actors. Yeah. And the Nolan's are largely because of his act door. But then he also has his writing one, which is the other thing that I wanted to talk about that. I think separates Nolan from fincher is the fact that like fincher makes great movies written by other people Nolan makes phenomenal movies written by himself and his brother now because you couldn't make the social network by himself one hundred percent. So this this this brings us into the next important part of the conversation, which is where is the peak in their career and defining the peak of their career is like, I don't know what you say it's the best three movies in sequence. It's the best five years. It's just the best three movies overall. Like, I think you've gotta look at a period of time where they were sort of like the name or like if you could be anyone in the world, if you could be any director in the wall, would you rather be fincher from this period of this period? Would rather be Nolan from this period to this period? And I'm already going to tell you it's Nolan in the Batman franchise. Is from prestige to inception or no excuse me from prestige to interstellar. Is that too far? I think I would say more accurately, it's the dark night through Intersil. It's okay to fourteen. Okay. Dark guy through interstellar. I liked foods inception. Yep. It doesn't include prestige. But it's Batman begins dark night, not including begins Batman trilogy. I'm saying you start with dark night because that's what he became he became because I love Batman begins so much, but that's fair. That's fair. So we start with the night because that is really when it became like, this is a God criminal is. Yeah. The guy because when Batman begins came out, it was like, ooh, this could be something dark. Knight came out. There was most presold ticket sales for a movie ever. You know, whatever it was not even close. So you go dark Knight dark. Knight rises, you inception. Yeah. Then you have interstellar in there as well. Right. Yeah. You go you go dark Knight. Oh, you go. Inception. Two thousand ten you. Go rises twelve interstellar forces. That's the four. Yeah. Okay. So then on the other side of it. You've got fincher which is debatable tougher. Right. This is kind of what I was talking about like, which is the which is the portion of his career that you have to give more credit to there's the early on which is fight club. Which is signed sevens ninety five and. Let's game is ninety seven and a game. And that's from the perspective of like respect like, okay because we include interstellar here, and that movie was not loved by most you include panic room here figure to do that. Which is before both. Right. It's oh to the last one or the last one if you wanted to go with the later part because he has four Oscar-nominated actors and his movies. You would start with Benjamin button. You would go Benjamin button. No eight you would go social network twenty ten you would drag it out to twenty eleven and then gone twenty fourteen. I think you've got to go with the earlier one because the two movies are so iconic 'cause seven and fight club are so they are two of the biggest movies ever made Colt Colt. Classic wise fight clubs the coolest movie ever made still. I think I still think it is. Like, you go back, and you watch it now is a thirty year old man when I went and wash it is like a twelve year old that was like, it's still feels cool tailored might be the coolest movie forever. The problem is that seven isn't as good as it used. Oh, see that's as you say that because I went back to watch them all the more seven was better than fight club. Really I went back, and I watched them on if I remember correctly. I think I put social network one seven to fight club three. And then I want to say zodiac four or maybe it was. I mean, don't get me wrong. I love seven it's still I still adore it. I just don't maybe maybe it was just because I was a kid in that aspect of the horrifying. Yes. To sevens. Really good. But then I just think Nolan takes his instructed because like even you can't quite decide between the two because what's the second era? It's the gun girl. It's it's dragon tattoo, and I would say I would say it's like if you wanted to go with the second area. You would go you go zodiac. Oh, seven Benjamin button. Eight social network twenty ten dragging into eleven and then the and then gone girl you'd have. So if you just had to do the two, it'd be it'd be social dragon tattoo, and and the and girl. Yeah. Which I mean, those are three incredible movies as well. I mean, you're giving six years to Nolan versus giving. Yeah. That's fourteen through oh, seven seven years, if you include zodiac and gone, girl, I know any way you slice it. You're talking about a period of time where they were considered to be like the director the only like just no question because just dragging a two was a flop. It didn't make any money. It's so weird because I was so young when fight club in seven came out to me. It was Brad Pitt the no whereas as an adult or is like you, and I and the business, you know, it's like you'd be like paying such close attention at everything fincher did. So it's hard for me. Because like, and he wasn't even venture yet to be completely fair. That's why I think in some ways this is there's just no question because like Nolan gets his shot, and he falls it up with inception and fincher never followed up his movie with a better movie. Right. Like, nobody never followed up with like a mind blowing like he didn't follow them seven with fight club. There's always something in between game in between. Yes. And so there, you know, four years pass, I think you you have to nod this one to Nolan I think he'd do just because that run and honestly. Leger winning that award the first ever like superhero movie to win an acting award was crazy. Can I saw them to add to the point if we can agree that it's both knowing what if you're just taking their top three. If you're just taking your top lose got better. Who's got the better top three? Oh my God. Guys. How ever going to get out of here? I don't know. I don't think I can I if I had to live without the if I couldn't live without three movies. Yeah. I think it's still goes to know him because I like his style of movie making more like for me. It goes Batman begins. Don't that night and inception. I don't wanna live without those three movies. I can live without can I live without fight club Gaza. So can I live without fight club in seven kind of live without social network like after watching social networking in last night. Like, I love you. And I should just have a movie watching fest words, just like it's just Steve Jobs and the social network in every movie in between that are just like people talking and rooms incredibly well written by Sorkin genius. That movie is like, that's basically what that movie is social or Steve social network. Yeah. It's basically just a sequence of like different rooms quick cut to thirteen seconds of movement. Like the winkle boss twins rolling. Two people talking and you guys running audio. I was just rowing. For me if it's top three. Now, the better top three. I it's like almost impossible like gun to your head gun to your mother's head. I still I still like my mother, not your. I still like what did you get you? Go fincher. Didn't you barely? And the reason is because social networks the best movie, you think social network is the best movie in the entire catalogue of both directors. Yeah. I do. The most rewatching movie, I think Nolan's best movie inception. And I think it's less remarkable. Mostly because I don't think that his move. I see because I think movies like rewatch ability like dark Knight rises rewatch abilities like through the roof for me. And it's like one of his worst movies. Yeah. And I think also that if I like my top four for each is fight club, seven zodiac social network, dark Knight, memento, prestige inception. And I gotta give the nod to just the fact that like, I think I got to do it too. It seems barely it. Seems ludicrous to me that I'm going to give this to to fincher because I like I like Nolan more than is my full disclosure here. It is this is the part of the show retail who director I think it's Christopher Nolan. God damn it. I really do. But. I don't think I can live without I think I can live without Nolan's movies more comfortably than ventures. Yeah. That's what I agree to. And I think I think some of that is getting older I'm that. I'm like actually upset. Thinks it's getting older and realizing that the thing in movies. That's the most awesome is like intelligent pacing and believable characters where like Nolan is great except even when I go back and watch dark Knight. Now, it's not a satisfied because it used to be because the ending's kind of lackluster, inception and interstellar or like better almost I mean, so so now before we get out of here before we get out of here does maybe last last minute swing artisans here. If you're talking to me marrying, if you're thinking about if you're thinking about a couple of scenes a couple of the scenes that would would swing it in Nolan's favor for Matthew mcconaughey, sitting in the chair in stellar after they get back from the wall. Crying the gif of him. It's so you gotta talk to me. Murph is my favorite scene in that whole movie fixed because because he's sitting there and he's watching in the fifth dimension. This is after he gets transported. He's looking through. Because this is also the in the movie that is terrible. Because like, it's the follow up this emotional moment with terrible expedition. We're tars is like Cooper you've understand that they've found a way to represent three dimensions. And their five minutes structure. You're like you've understood that they like, yes, thank you for explaining Christopher Nolan 'cause I know there's one it'd be so fucking confused have no idea what's going on. So tars has to voice over at four or thinking this now. Yeah. But his moment before that when he's looking through the bookcase crazies Murph and he's like and he's like he's like make me stay verve. And then don't let me go cuts to adult Jessica Chastain and she realizes what's happened. And she looks and she says it was you you were my ghost. And you realize he's watching the worst decision that he ever made of his whole life. The the decision that he knows that he had to make. But he's also realizing he cost him his whole life, and she's realizing that in fact, all the anger was just for her. He's been there the whole time the whole time. I got chills right now that scene is soul. Crushingly beautiful to me in a way that I think people don't appreciate an interstellar for that reason. It is so wonderful the scenes the interpersonal issues of interstellar are actually the strongest maybe in any of his films, which is which is kind of fascinating. The other thing that I want to talk about is in inception. Any scene with Leo and Marian is haunting and Hartford and heartbreaking, and it's so incredibly well acted by both of them. But then really you talk about the visuals and inception. And this is why I think at the end of the day fincher doesn't actually take the cake over Nolan because Nolan makes you feel he gives you that feeling of accomplishment and fulfilment when you watch his movies movies have a more emotional sweep ventures movies. You're definitely colder. Exactly. You're waiting for a train all that stuff. That's kills mexic-. Great line. The other thing too is that Nolan. Man was going to say is that Nolan. I think the league for a second. Because says I'm known as film that I just can't remember it comes back to you. So on the other end of things, I think with ventures movies, you know, social networks, my favorite one. I think it's the best movie that he's ever directed. And it has several scenes the most famous in the movie is the opener where you think at that point. That's really Mara dumping, right? Yeah. And then he must have already cast are at that point dragged down because it came out the next year the movies too big he had to. Meeting, and that's probably why he just used her there. Quickly maisy, right? She's awesome. She's and that scene is amazing. It's very good so fast. And and when he sees her again, we can I just talked to you on for a minute. Just like, I think it'd be rude to my friends. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She's great. And then like, so, but I love I love the scene in the courtroom when that lawyer whose name I can't think of it was just like the perfect like that guy lawyer. And he's like, oh, yeah. And he's like you said in January you sent an Email to my clients. He's like you sent them sixteen emails and the first fifteen you didn't mention anything about problems in the sixteenth. You did where you leading them on. And he's like, it's raining, and Mr. Zuckerberg, do I have your full attention says I'm under oath, and I don't want to perjure myself. So I have to tell you the truth, which is no. And it says why and he's like, you know, my clients or whatever me and my team of Facebook me, and my team are doing things back at Facebook that you and your clients could not are like not even ninety actually capable of doing any says you have. Yes, you have my attention the minimum amount that adequately answer your call. Descending question that to me is like the most like God. This is good. That's why. Because when you get older, you realize you can't say fuck you to someone. Yeah. That is how you say it, and excuse my language, but that is exactly how you say. That's like when it's like as per my last E mail. Yeah. That's exactly what that is. Yeah. I love I absolutely adore that saying we talked about the zodiac seen the case. So then you go back to the visuals of Nolan, and it's like just the sheer beauty of the movies that he makes like how about just the water planet. Just the water planet itself is a fist pump those aren't mountains. Yeah. Your way and you're just like oh shit. Yeah. Like it. It's incredible other fist pumps that. I love. I mean. At the end of fight club. Yeah. When when when when he goes we have lost cabin pressure. All dead at the moment where Marla goes Tyler Tyler Durden says his name to him that moments. Unbelievable lost cabin pressure. And then it goes through. And this is one thing that I missed from non linear storytelling is when they go. And they show each of the scenes all the scenes, he walks out of the room. He walks into the room. Yeah. All that stuff. Like my mind. Yeah. It's it's amazing. That's you're absolutely right. That's one of the great fist pumps. And I think taking it back to seven for a second because you know, talking about that movie. And that it's not as it didn't affect you as much as it did as a little kid. Yeah. I mean seven has one of the most unbelievable endings to movie in history to this day. It's still gets me like the whole setup. What's in the box? Like all of it. You just you don't know. I tweeted this like a year ago when I was watching it or six months ago. What do you think happens to Brad Pitt's character them he goes to jail for life? And he's probably gets Murden jail like realistically as a detective in is aren't they in New York or LA? It's one Chicago, Chicago, it's like a bad onto what happens to a cop in jail, especially murder like he may be the jailer. Maybe he lose. I mean, he he's maybe he's lucky and he gets to go to like a minimum security because of his track record and because of the situation, but like he murdered a man in cold blood. Yeah. I mean, it's just that part of it is like the whole the whole set of of that movie. And the fact that it's like Spacey and he was on the stairs. And he was the report on and then like, and what about the even more beautiful things the setup with Paltrow? Yeah. That the good morning the leaving for work that dinner with Morgan Freeman. You learn to your like if I marry someone it's. It's Tracy and seven. Yeah. It's I mean that is truly like there is almost. No. And that's the difference. Right. Is like that seen the ending the gone girl. One doesn't have moments in his movies that that have that level of grits. He doesn't because the only one and I just found this out. Spoiler alert inception. Yeah. He's awake. He's actually awake. At the end of the movie. How do you know it's been like determined online? Like people have come out and said things like the costume designer even came out and said that there's a different wardrobe for the kids. Yeah. Which even that alone got even that alone the kids wearing something different than in all the dreams means as wake so he got away with it. He got away with it. That's what I've in. Like, there was a big discussion on our Facebook fan pages because we have a couple of those for our action movie show and action army. It's been decided that he is actually awake and that so it's happily ever after. And it kind of ruins it for me. It was my only Nolan movie that has a sad ending kind of loved it it needed to not. Be real. Because the way the movie ends is so dreamlike from the moment. You woke up wakes up on the plane isn't the mental kind of a sad ending kind of it kind of is kind of. I mean, he he he realizes for a second that he's crazy. He realized that he's done it all himself. And then he's just like I'm gonna kill Ben next. Ben on a piece of paper. And I'm going to put that piece of paper on my pocket, and it's going to become a whole new fund mystery for me that and also like I would say heading prestige sad. Okay. Hold on. Yeah. These are three fucked up endings, dude. Yeah. This is a lot more bleak than we were giving Nolan credit for before procedures is pretty bad because his Jackman takes his daughter and wins Jackman takes his daughter and wins, and right and the one of the bails dies. Right. The one bale has to stay in jail. The other one has to stay in jail Jackman is being miserable. Though. Wait is that exactly that ends? He he's got the ball. He says goodbye to his daughter. Andrea. Yeah. I love that movie. And then he walks just love yelling like Jackman of it. That was does bales you on through the Jack meal if you want. We dug rest though. Yes. Do you? I think people could probably tell based off of our our energy throughout the episode. But I'm just curious where are you at right now? Dave interest, a better. And I think no one's better direct still you stick with I still stick with that. You went in with that. Honestly. Wait what I thought. I thought you I figured you went in with that attitude, but I did. And I almost I almost swayed. I really did when it was because I do truly believe living without fight club's, seven and social network would be harder for me to do than living without inception. Yeah. Begins and another one of Nolan's movies. Yeah. But I still gotta give it to Nolan. Yeah. I it's just the way he makes me feel when his movies, and I love the visuals in his movies, absolute phenomenal and beautiful. And and I like ventures reality. But I the bleakness in his ending. Sometimes I need some I need that payoff. Yeah. Fair enough fair enough. Okay. So that's going to wrap us up guys. Those are picks for who is the greater director. Who's the better director, whatever you wanna call it here on the action guys. Thank you so much for listening to the second. Episode of the show for watching it be sure to subscribe to the collider podcast YouTube channel to download on podcast one or apple podcasts. Here you can check us out on the movie feed the movie talk feed, I'm been bathing. You can find me at Ben Bateman media. I'm Andrew guy, you guys can find me at Andrew guy on Instagram and Twitter, and please, please. Like subscribe, comet let us know because they can do that on the YouTube channel, let us know what you guys actually think of who the better director is if we made good enough once you're not read each one. Oh my gosh. Yeah. What is your three movies? You could not live without from either director. That was a tough moment for me. That's a hard one. So thank you so much for listening. Thanks again to collider for bringing us back to do this. We'll be back next week with another show. And you know, look forward to getting us here at checkout. The out check out collider live all the other shows there and thanks for thanks for watching listening guys. Bye. See everybody. Is ron. About it. Gen. Alexa, play hits from Queen. Okay. With music of voices. All you need get tens of millions of songs. Download the Amazon music app today Muller's request. I'm Ed Donahue with an AP news minute. President Trump hasn't submitted it yet, but he has answered questions in the Russia investigation are working on that I'm working to that. I write the answers my Louisville right inches. I right answers. I was asked a series of questions I've answered the very easily. Very easily earlier a judge in Washington told the White House to give back CNN reporter, Jim Constas press credential. I was confident, and I felt that this would be the result at the end of the day that our rights would be protected to continue to cover our government and hold our leaders accountable cost ahead of verbal running with President Trump. What does the president want to see from reporter decor? You can't take three questions four questions and just stand up and not at the core of you have to break this decor. A US officials as an American citizen detained last month by North Korea has been deported and is on his way back to the United States name. Bruce Byron Lawrence. I'm Ed Donahue.

Christopher Nolan David fincher director Benjamin Ben Bateman fincher murder Oscar Ruffalo Spielberg Tarantino Andrew guy Mike God misers fincher Alexa John Rocca Rosamund pike San Francisco
The Big Picture: A Ringer Movies Podcast

The Big Picture

01:38 min | 8 months ago

The Big Picture: A Ringer Movies Podcast

"I'm Sean. Fantasy. Head of content for the ringer and I'm Amanda Dobbins eaters director at the Ringer, and this is the big picture podcast about the movie industry, the actors and directors. We love our deepest obsessions and darkest fears and yes of course, the dreaded and Beloved Academy Awards Amanda What Do we do on the show. We make top five lists. Amanda. Let's go Aaron Sorkin I. Say Them Man's name and what you think wait a my whole life for this. We yell at each other over the order of David Fincher, greatest works and the importance of animated films. Fight Club I will not trade you club. Zodiac. I will not easy to get on the list of social network I will not trade use a social network gone girl I will not trade you gone girl. And we predict the Oscars to second guess ourselves at the academy and then completely lose it if our favorite films win. I'm shown fantasy I've I've, and this is the big picture. A conversation show about the ninety Second Academy Awards and Bunk June home. We did. Everybody. Plus we talked to the filmmakers who make your favorite movies and a rotating cast of ringer staffers about the films that excite them follow the big picture on spotify or wherever you get your podcast for new episodes, every Tuesday, and Thursday.

Amanda Dobbins Academy Awards Aaron Sorkin David Fincher spotify director ninety Second
Amanda Seyfried

Sunday Sitdown with Willie Geist

46:55 min | 2 months ago

Amanda Seyfried

"Hey guys willie geist here with another episode of the sunday. Sit down podcast. My thanks as always for clicking and listening along. I've got another oscar nominee for this week. She is amanda ciphered nowhere. You love her from movies. Like mean girls to mama mia films where she played sophie. Those movies grow together more than a billion dollars at the box office. She was in les miserables. She was intended to depending on your taste in movies. She can do just about anything and now. She stars in manque the netflix movie. That has ten oscar. Nominations leading the pack including one four. Amanda for best supporting actress. She plays real life. Nineteen thirties film star marian davies who was in movies but also known as the mistress and longtime companion of magnate. William randolph hearst. So the movie manque is about the making of the film. The writing of the film citizen kane which was based on the life loosely. Perhaps or closely of william randolph hearst. So she'll explain the premise of the movie. How it all ties in how it works. She's amazing in it's black and white directed by david fincher. You'll hear a man to talk about. What an honor. It is just to be asked to a movie by david fincher. He's done seven fight club. Curious case of benjamin button. He did house of cards. The series on netflix really good work than and actors just wanna work with him so she was thrilled to be asked to be in it and now of course to be nominated for an oscar. A little bit of background for you here as you've come to know i am in a room above my garage. Amanda is home with her family on her farm in upstate. New york real farm horses donkeys pigs. Ducks chickens turtles all kinds of animals. She says she feeds him twice a day. Now she's also the mother of two very young children including a six month old boy so she's been a little bit busy with that but she's out in her barn doing the interview. I'm above my garage. You'll hear in the background. Some google gagging and that is from her six and a half month old son. Her mother is there helping. Look after the kids. Her husband also an actor is down in georgia. Shooting a movie so they're kind of juggling it all and at one point the little boy just comes and sits on mom's lap. It's amazing He's she's literally quite literally juggling motherhood with her career so i hope you enjoy man deciphered as much as i did talking to her. She so cool so smart really fun right now on the sunday. Sit down podcast. Oscar nominated actress. amanda ciphered. amanda. It's good to see you. Thanks for doing this. Thanks for having me I was telling you a moment ago that you've already whatever happens at the oscars received the award from our crew for most technically adept actress. And one of our interviews. You set up your cameras. You got the lights the audio it was an a man. Deciphered production thanks. I'm actually take a picture it is. It's pretty. I'm very impressed. Some directing this is. This is what happens when you're how much better adept. Are we at everything. Because we're doing it alone. Especially people who are in this business happening. We have all these people to do. Our technical the technical jobs on a on a junket and here we are. We have to do it ourselves and we are that much smarter. Are you enjoying the the reality of just kind of like being at home and doing press it. Homer is at a strange thing that you'd like to get back to real life or do you like doing business this way. Well it's benefits. And there's some serious drawbacks which i will name first. They squeeze in so much more work. Oh so in fifteen since you don't have to get in the car and drive to the next studio you have we'll set up another six interviews for you for the rest of the day and you definitely have to change your outfit after each one. Is that the worst in the world. Of course not be. The benefits outweigh everything. I've got my kids over in the house. It's so great that i don't again car and go goanywhere or get new plane that matter. I mean that's that was my life. I was always leaving. I've also found for our purposes. When i interview people i'd much rather be sitting down with you somewhere talking. Obviously but and you tell me. If i'm wrong about this guests can be more comfortable because you are at home. You just came from lunch with your kids or wherever you were doing. He just plopped down and kind of start talking. You don't have to go into this sort of artificial setting and talk to people. Yeah the temperature's just ride you've you've got your creature comforts and i mean no free food of course. Which is a bummer. But yeah i mean listen. I i do miss the cappuccinos on the our our but i am. I am also not taking beta blockers before interviews. Like because i'm comfortable i have stage fright and sometimes i like when i go on today. Show for instance. I have to take a bit of bright. I believe. I have to take a beta blocker. So i did and whatever it does whether it's placebo. Not my heart rate stays somewhat. I don't know how you do. I really don't i find that so interesting and i think people watching this will find it interesting because you've talked about struggling with anxiety. You seem so comfortable wherever you are doing what you do so easy and your own skin whether it's an a movie on an interview you're always funny and charming and all those things but you've had the serve long struggle with haven't you. It's it feels like life. I guess that's a panic attack is really you. Your body just goes in a fight or flight as much as you can understand that from an outside perspective when you're not struggling it it's real it the it becomes so credibly real when when it's happening to you and and the adrenaline rush the endorphin rush on the dump. That happens after you after. The panic attack is so extraordinary. It's like being high in some way you just feel so relieved in your body's just kind of recovered in a way so bizarre because it's all it is his physiological but it is starts in your head and you would think someone like you. Who's been doing this a while. Now this is the today show. I've done the today show. I know i can do the today. This is fallon. I've done fallon. I know i can do but really never goes away. Does it never goes away. And i've i've there are. I have found healthier ways to cope. I have whiskey at seven. Am yna worried. that's true. Just a little taste right about that. You're right. I should be less responsible. Less terrified is what it is really i. Yeah it's i keep doing it. I keep getting getting there. But i this pandemic has definitely made it much harder for me to envision myself going back into the studio. I love coming to the today. Show really exciting. Always great fans. And there's people milling around and it's just an exciting place to be rockefeller center. I as much as i. I liked those aspects. It's just sometimes not worth it. If i'm just not if i'm not feeling it from scared so you know it's live you know why we anything can happen. It's unpredictable and people love watching it but but my biggest fear is always something. That's never gonna happen like my biggest fear is that i'm gonna faint. Seems unlikely. Seemed totally unlikely. Did you know. I have learned unlikely i did. I did a play. It was my first playoff broadway. I met my husband there actually in which the two of us and it was one of the most exciting times of my life and the most terrifying. Because i i had to make that decision every night to just mind over matter just to to to power through and find the moments As actors do cedar is to really living something and come alive and portray these characters in front of live audience. Everything if you allow it to be positive. And i had to make a choice whether or not i was gonna sabotage my experience every night and i would have panic attacks. I had about seven and it was. It was the moment. Where am i going to flee. Am i going to have these. Two hundred fifty people just miss out on the show that they've paid to come see or am i gonna just get over myself and as hard as it is because you can't you're talking about any mental illness or panic disorder. Whatever it is. You can't just tell someone get over it be happy. That's not helpful. It's not possible but it is minor were matter and you have to just breathe through it and when you do you get to the side of it. In front of an audience full people it is so empowering and so you have to sometimes goes to those moments in order to get to that to that point and i wanna be empowered as hard as it is. I want to be in powdered powered. And i'm gonna go back on on fallon and kimmel. I'm gonna do it all in person pre thrill to be well. It does seem to me like the place where you're sitting right now. Is your happy place your comfort zone where you can be with your husband. He can be a theory. Young children can be with your animals and the fact that you live where you live so far removed from the business where you work was. That's something conscious for you just to remove step out of it when you're not in it yes i. It was very conscious. I always wanted to be in with a nature. I've always wanted to live on a farm when i was able to afford to move into my own house. Appear as tiny as it is. He just made me feel like i had some control at have. Some control issues definitely suffer from obsessive compulsive disorder and everything that comes along with. that is just. I just need to feel grounded. Somewhere that i can trust will always be there that is not contingent on somebody else and luckily for me. I married someone who really appreciates were. If where i've come to find myself and he's feels the say why about farm and that's key and so we can build a life together here and it's it it means the same to him as it does to me so that was really important and we just keep getting more animals as long as we have the space for them. We will continue to find ourselves with another coat or another doc which is fine because there are much easier to deal with. But it's a it's my sanctuaries always as what i wanted to when i could afford Are you actually amanda out there. Tending to the animals people wanna know with gusts donkey and with all the animals that are out there. Yep now that. I have my son before i was i gave birth. I was before. I got pregnant. I was doing one or two of the two feeds and sometimes i'll give my caretaker shannon. Who is really just makes me feel like i can serve because this is everything to me when i leave. I have to leave. I was in georgia for two months with my husband working. I do believe so she. I don't know if you can hear. The gator probably can't have this mike on but she's feeding both days but yeah i have to understand the flow if i've left for two months. There's always something that's changed. I have to know what everybody needs when they need it because otherwise it doesn't feel you'll feel safe. Something were to go wrong. There are a lot of calls that have to make and at least i know what they need when they need kind of medicine what to look for what kind of hay day like. What kind of. Hey they don't like where to get it. Just it's the only thing i haven't done is i have not picked up. The feed from the feet store ever was bags are heavy shannon. Seems to enjoy it. He's been here. She was at this farm long. Before i i can. So yeah. it's a it's a control thing but it's also this is you have these animals learn how to take care of them learning to be responsible for them as a big. It's a it's a privilege but it's also it's a good lesson it's also keeps you grounded. We're all this stuff was happening. Last year i still had to get up and be nothing changed for them. These guys didn't notice a virus coming in sweden us out Also teach my kids to feed so when they're old enough. I'm gonna have to get up. You go just to keep expanding family. I had them to staff up. Will you been incredibly busy. Obviously congratulations on the birth of your son. Seven months old. I think something like that now. Six and a half months old so not only of the animals. You've got your own little babies on the farm with you there. And you've been nominated for an oscar for manque congratulations incredible. You've you've done a lot in hollywood you've been in massive movies. That people love will remember forever. But this is something new for you. What does it feel like to be nominated for an academy award. It's it's funny. There's certain things. I work really hard for like getting certain roles and every great moment when i found out that i have gotten something worked really hard to get for. Instance mama me atlanta's new girls. I've had that that shock and awe an excitement and just pure adrenaline moments. That just they happen. And you'll never forget where you were thinking where you are what you were wearing what your temperature was. And and this is one of those moments. That i didn't i didn't do one thing and i didn't try to get it. It wasn't like i was. It's it's different. It's not a good job. It's it's a it's a recognition. It's an it's an achievement. That that i didn't set out to expect or even was never desperate for it. Because that can really alter how you how you behave and how you walk through life. I just wanted to work. I wanted to longevity. That's like that's the key. Just keep working livelihood as well live feed feed get new garage hopefully ours can go inside a building but yes it's so it's it's a long way to talk but why were here's a different. I know what you're going to cut the crap out of me i. it's a. It's the feeling of getting an achievement. That i i wasn't looking for that. I never dreamed of that. I am absolutely accepting of if it hadn't happened. That's okay prepared myself. But i'm really glad it happened because it does. It opens the door just opens the door wider in terms of opportunities. And that's what it's about. I came into this business looking for opportunities and continuing to to to want a need opportunities in order to do different things to be fulfilled and david fincher gave me the opportunity and put me in a place where people were going to pay attention in a way. They haven't because he's saving censure it just doesn't it. It hasn't really hit me yet. Hasn't really sunk in. I'm not sleeping. Watch these days that as i was sleeping when i when my mom came down and told my mom lives with her. She's our nanny and told me that. I gotten the nomination. Speech seven and eight thirty s my sleeping because my son feeds around seven. If i'm lucky and then you fall back asleep. So i'm gonna celebrate. I'm going to the oscars as a nominee. What a moment of your mom knock on the door to and that was delivered. I didn't i left my phone on silent. And i did not put on my arm because i need that sleep and if i didn't get the nomination than i have been able to. Maybe sleep till nine. I needed to know i was. I was taking care of either way and also to give my mom opportunity. Give you some news. She hasn't gotten to do that in a long time. The good news. I mean any news out. It's much sweet coming from my mother. Was it like a screaming. Mom oh my god. i'm agawam god was she poised. Or how did you handle the news yourself hurt. My publicist was as an agent. Were in her ear her on the phone because she was already awake and she came to. Actually i woke up. And i was like back down and had to take care of business. That's amazing that's incredible. We should explain to people why being asked by david. Fincher is such an amazing moment for an actor and why it's so special for people don't know he's got a very specific way of making films seven. He's done social network fight club. There's a long list of movies and shows that he's he's done but what is it about him that when he called you and said. I think i'd like you to be in my film that got you so excited. Why is that such a big deal. David fincher is a master. He is whether or not he trusts himself. I'll never know but it sure seems like he trusts himself and when you have a director who knows exactly what he wants and who really trusts in his or her instincts. You really can't go wrong. No matter what happens no matter what is made at the end of the day you can come away with knowing that you're helping creates helping story and tell the story in a very specific way and having that kind of solidity in who you are and what you're making is so beautiful. I just want to be around people like that. Also when david fincher talks creates people listen they wanna see what he's doing next because nothing he does is an accident and it's always beautiful and it's always it always has quite an impact for artists and for his The audience and so. When i when he asked me to be part of this movie i was shocked because my first thought was. I didn't know the david fincher knew who i was. Okay and if he's hiring me to play marion davies not a small thing. He must like my work and trust me so that was a huge turning point for me not that i need people not that i desperately need their approval but it really weighs heavy when you get it and so. His approval weighs very heavily on me. As terrified as i was to go on that and to portray her i i also i knew he knew that i could do it. And it really helped me. Feel like i could to plus gary oldman. He sure he sure knows how to buy. Very far. gary sets the bar very high end. You're able to yeah. I've heard you say a couple of times. Amanda that before david came to you and sort of blew your mind basking to be in this film. You'd gotten lazy in some way in terms of how you take roles and what roles you take. What did you mean by that. Do you mean you'd sort of settled into this is my career. These are the kind of parts. I play and not even considered the possibility of something like this. Or what do you mean when you say. That willing mean is i. It's comes down very. It's very simple really. And which is why. It feels even worse and friend in the room rand my mother. My husband's working georgia mother just went up to go pick up my daughter and genevieve incredible makeup artists. Who just hang my guy. He's okay yeah. I think i think leading to put it simply. I wasn't a mo- wasn't memorizing lines. The way i could. I didn't know them in my bones like the way i knew my lines when i was on stage. I didn't know them that. Why would learn them in the makeup trailer and a lot of people do that. There's nothing wrong with it. It's just getting acquainted with the story in a way that could definitely affect your performance. I rely too much on my instincts and my need to make things feel really real in the moment and sometimes that meant not knowing aligns perfectly so can feel like i'm searching for them and that's like a that's like an actor thing that i was using that excuse maybe to a point where it wasn't it wasn't being very helpful and i wasn't giving it my best tonight. I would just get used to playing myself in certain rules not everything. It's it's not been like that for every single project. But i did find myself doing that a lot. And sometimes even wanting to go home and that only started after i started having kids sure and so that's a sign of needing to be a little bit more specific about what i do a little bit more choosey because i i don't wanna be away from them and if i'm gonna be away from them because i want to work and i want to fuel i hope he i know okay. I knew this was going to happen. And i said to my mom. It's okay it's taped see. This is the call right. This is what draws you back home. This is exactly what you're talking about right now. He wanted to get home. I know that feeling. There's something happens. I have two kids too. I would say you get this homing beacon inside you. Were traveling doing something where you might stay an extra day or see a friend or you just go nope. When's the next flight and it just happens. It just had wesley. Yeah my my husband. Just surprised a my daughter for easter and georgia. It was two flights on south west last minute and tough just to make sure he makes his flights. Because we've got a lot of storms this time. We have storms all the time everywhere now actually by the way and and you know he would just make it happen. There's no point in being the just no you don't you don't end up partying with your co stars as much and and you miss it a little bit. But you just want to go home and so i don't want to. I would like to prevent myself from being on set and wanting to go home. I like to be able to compartmentalize a little bit. Enjoy where. I'm at with the people in with playing apart that love love and that i'm going to just get so much out of and then being able to go home and have a weekend and just do it like people do it and not feel like any regrets because i just don't wanna i don't wanna i don't wanna miss them to action but i also and i'm not going to be lazy. That's plus a promising to myself that some a lesson i needed to learn what's a cliche but you'll never regret a minute. You spend with your kids few race home. You miss something on the set. The cliche is true about that. One for sure so. The film is nominated for ten oscars leads the way of all movies this year including your nomination. It's such an interesting and rich and true story so you're probably better at explaining it. At this point that i would be so just the basically. What is the story of make in. How does marian fit into. It is the story of bank wits. Who was the the original the screenwriter for persistent game. And he wrote the first draft. Before orson welles. God took it and fiddled with that you will and we. We didn't really know much about him. We we we've some of us have heard the name mankiewicz of course and and it wasn't because of herman's so much is because of joe or herman's grandsons and and it's it's he just such an interesting man and he knew he was a critic and he and a writer and he knew all these incredible people in the golden age and he was friends with marion davies and and citizen kane is really inspired by the relationship that herman banquets had with william randolph. Hearst and his quote unquote mistress really his life partner. Only because he couldn't his wife her wife didn't want a divorce in officially marian was his partner and an. I got a chance with may. We'll i gary. Gary and david and david's father who wrote the script Jack venture wrote the script of bank just to show the story of how it came to be citizen. Kane is one of the best films ever made and it's really fascinating what it's about and why it exists and for me playing mary davies. I got an opportunity coffee machine. I got an opportunity to redesign the legacy of this incredible woman who who had many contributions to the arts to filmmaking to the golden age of hollywood she was a philanthropist she. She was very generous with her money. She never took from hearst's he would. She had proper she would give her properties but she build them out once she gave him a million million dollars and here she was just she was really this winsome effervescent character and the fact that i get to help reclaim that for her is. It's like we're walking together on this oscar campaign come getting this recognition that i've never had before it feels so good and i'm also getting it for role that changed my career. You know the kind of changed paved a new way for me. And i also got to bring marian where maybe she brought me in to this volatile little bit. I don't know. I don't know where to where you know. I don't know who's helping. Who but certainly had a nice time walking with mary davies on this journey. And and i never got to talk about andy character this life. You really are like buddies. That's gonna be something. Cool that playing someone who existed and serve carrying her along with you and thinking maybe about what she must be thinking as you get an oscar nomination playing her or maybe sort of tweaking you somewhere and saying no. I wouldn't say that way or do it that way but as you say there is this sort of feel through history or cartoon version of who she was mainly because of the character in citizen kane which doesn't quite line up as you on the movie with who she actually was. That's that's the thing that's clouded her legacy for so many years and it only gets worse. It's like playing telephone. You're just there's no sharp the image of her anymore and unless you really go looking and and luckily jackson did he he went looking. He did all his research on manque and marianne who who is a supporting piece of this story this beautiful story and and really in some ways kind of bring levity to to to manque i think and that's what i saw the script and i i wanted to do that justice but it's it's really incredible. How see people in our inner minds from what we've been told from memory and from movies. Hey guys thanks for listening to the sunday. Sit down podcast. Stick around to hear more from amanda cypher. Right after the break. Welcome back to the sunday. Sit down podcast now. More of my conversation with amanda ciphered. I do and ask you mentioned your mom. About growing up in allentown and how you get from allentown with i think no connection whatsoever to show business to becoming one of the biggest movie stars in the world few stops in between but i going to new york. What was the first draw. Away from allentown and those first steps into modeling and acting. I on what is it about modeling. That is so exciting. You see models on tv and you see these young actresses on full house and you're you you wanna know more. You wanna be a part of it. You feel left out. And i think i was so close to manhattan. It felt felt very far away from me. When i was now when i was little but i think just my cousin. A second cousin of mine was modeling. Locally and i saw how fun would that be if i could do that too. So i had a an agent z. That was local and then they sent me to new york at one point on go sees guest union modeling agency and i signed with low meena models in new york as a kid. I was doing folk. The nielsen vogue. The other italian kids vote because they had vogues for kids which is just evoke amini. And i was just doing little editorial shoots for god knows hundred bucks buying candy with end. And then we'll immune start sending me out on visions for for warner brothers pilots. That's it i. I was just every time they call. That would calm. I would leave school. Like twelve twelve thirty. One o'clock bus. We'd be rushing sometimes we. We'd stop at burger king or wendy's or mcdonalds or something to grab some food on my mama half day. She was an occupational therapist up until four years ago remarked daughter was born. She would take me. We go until. I was old enough to go by myself. I i think. I got my first apartment when i was sixteen seventeen and i graduated when i was seventeen and it just new york became this place where dreams were made and not all i. Don't yeah i. It carried me through. I mean i had my fair. Share of rejections and i was playing tennis all four years in high school. I was terrible. But i was passionate about it and i was passionate about my job as a waitress in a retirement home and i remember one time missing. The bus to come back home after an audition was a one o'clock bus comes in to forty five at three thirty or four call condition and get home on the four thirty five and i wanted to be home for work and i missed. The bus and i was devastated. Because i wasn't going to get to work on time. I had moments where. I just wanted to be a kid in high school and luckily about to do both. I didn't miss my childhood by modeling and acting on the weekends or a wednesday or a friday. When i'm in a science class or dansk it just was ideal. I'm so lucky that i didn't miss out. And i still got to explore the business in that way with my mother or my grandmother she could. She can go work so you find yourself. Find yourself in soap operas. And then you talk about this role in the david fincher film changing your life trajectory career. All of a sudden here comes mean girls which is probably the one that set the whole thing off. So i was. It was between that and going afford them. Union i mean at fordham at lincoln center communications part time i got fired from or let go. Whatever they say written off sorry. I've got written off from all my children after ten months of very solid various old contract role. I was living on sixty nine riverside and you can put his pacifier as long as you keep sucking. You won't know imminent. Yes i am. I was living when i was seventeen doing that. We'll time then. I got like oh and then what happens. Go back to school or hopefully. I got a good role and i got my first movie. And it just didn't expect it lived in the moments time of my life. And gary me on the next franck mars and big love to these two really great. Tv shows very different to those for a couple of years. A bunch of years carried me to something else Always working and there was always key. Continue to work. Hopefully it's really good work. I will know when i'm not happy. I will know when it's not good enough. I will know when. I'm not being challenged. So you say it was between mean girls and going to fordham. Is there a possibility that if you don't get mean girls you just go to college in your life goes a different direction or do you think you would have stayed with this. Acting thing that i would have continued acting. Yeah because it was only riders com one on one wherever that first class at everybody hates takes. Someone said get it over with. I was like okay. What three three three thousand dollars. Which is a lot of money. But at that point. I'd had it because if saving all my children and so i was like okay. I pay this. Whatever do english comp gonna get over with you. I'm going to do to audition and everything will be what it is. You know this heartbreak but it doesn't mean it's the end of it. It just means that. I have to make sure that i have a backup plan. And i'm so glad i didn't ever feel like i needed a backup plan after mean girls. That was that was the separation for me. My my passion and my confidence helped me for mingles on. Because i got work i worked hard and i got work drove all over los angeles when i moved there with a map looking an actual full out map which i still have. Because it's a nice souvenir from the old pre mapquest days and when we got a printer we would print out our map. Quest to like even mapquest sounds old at this point. I remember printing those at yeah. Good hope for it was the way to do it up. There was nothing you to print out the directions exactly. And if there's a flip phone. I remember so many times with my first boyfriend. Who had met on the soap opera on a throwing. My flipflop is throwing like flip phone across my childhood bedroom because we get in fights and they wouldn't break. I would never throw no too precious. No no no you can't you cannot funny. There's there's no kia we all yeah. The nokia brick so on that that escalator of your career. Obviously another massive step was mama mia which turned into this phenomenon. The two movies made a billion dollars between them and we saw you front and center is sophie singing and dancing and doing things that people hadn't seen you do before. What is that role and one of those movies mean to not just your career but to your life. That was the only time where i really knew when i was making that it was going to be a huge thing because it was mama mia that the the stage show was was a moment for broadway. It wasn't just a it stuck. It was so important to see. It was so exciting so fun for so many people that i knew it was gonna be a thing so when i got girls. It was very similar to getting yasser nomination. I was just like this is gonna change. So what truly who's jumping up and down and calling parents and it was just such a moment and and every single piece of that every single thing in my memory from those two movies. It's just coming back by the way ten years later with a kid all my old friends again but as an adult because i was twenty one the first movie. It was amazing. It shouldn't have that much when they're working and without mama mia. I don't know what i'd be doing. I don't know where of be. I'd be acting for sure but i don't know i just know you never know you're talking about driving around l. a. With that map is part of the reason you at least give off normalcy for a star as big as you are and that you live in the place to live because you've sort of taken yourself out of that universe in some ways not that you don't participate it and work hard and do all the things you have to do to be a working actor but that you're not at don't i. I don't see all over the place and walking around l. a. and would paparazzi shots. And the rest of it that you've sort of chosen to live the life that you wanna live. Yeah i there's a definite lifestyle that have come to get used to which is clean water brutal. How seriously actually no i. I get to renovate stuff. And i could drive a my ford expedition i. There's things that i there are creature comforts. That have never changed for me. That will always need i. I definitely can afford things that i could not afford growing up. I didn't really come into any kind of wealth until i was in my mid twenties. I feel really lucky. I'm the first person in my family. Made some some money. And i also have a lot of things like i don't. I don't have help when i work on movies sometimes. I haven't assistance. Because they don't have. My mom was with us. I don't i just don't have. I don't have a lot of people around. Because i don't. I don't want that. It's not necessary until it's necessary. I'm not gonna do it. And you know i like i a yes. I am not like normal life. I like some semblance of normalcy. This pandemic in some ways has been great. Because i get to wear a mask. Because i also just. I fought so hard to impress upon people. I am normal. That i am not just because i am movies or tv shows that i do not have someone waking me up with breakfast in bed and that i am not chauffeured around whatever that fairy tale movie star world is is not real for most people ninety nine percent of the people in this business don't have livestock and with upstate. I need somebody new. I'm just so desperate for them to understand that. I you can talk to me. I have feelings. i've struggled. I came from a normal upbringing. I'm still very normal waterways. My life is abnormal. In a lotta ways to but i i make the most of it and i want to connect like everybody else because i am like everybody else. But you've got that polish because of what you do and so with luckily of social media. I don't have to try so hard to be normal. But i'm also like not normal. I'm unique. We're all unique. So it's it's a weird battle so weird and coming. I mean i'm thirty five. I two kids. I don't have time to care so much about other people. Think thank god but but it's still thinking you know it's like marian you know i could i'd i'd give it all away i'd give it to everybody. You know that the people think they just because they see me on the cover of modern screen. They knew me but they they do. Because i'm knee. Who could make you can talk to me. And it's like so. I feel can talk to me and i'm sure you know exactly what i'm talking about your in the public eye. Your people see every day and they think they know you and so how do you let people have their thoughts. Freedom of their you know they think but also want to own your own image. Think there's you're right. There's an assumption by people that you want nothing to do with them when actually for people like you and me the exact opposite is true so then you find yourself overcompensating and be talking a little too long. This mayor grabbing their attention and they go. Wow that was a lot. We're like siege to us. Crazy can't win. It is yeah. It's listen. i'm this whole pandemics about finding the silver linings hoping that people you love. Don't die hoping that you can do your part in order to help prevent more cases and and the silver lining for me. There's so many but one of them is a mask. Katori mask and you know where you can really connect when you start going down to the feed store. Picking up those bags yourself. Amanda at your next move willie. I'm ready it's already. I've been carrying around my seventeen pound baby. I have got my muscles back to work. We're going to keep an eye out three down there. You've been so generous with your time and it's so fun to hear your little man in the background. Thank you so much for doing. Just got back. of course. He's like a mommy's congratulations on. It's it's so upsetting the movies. Great if people haven't seen it gotta go see it so good my big thanks again to amanda for a great conversation and to her little man for letting us steal some time for mom to talk about her part in mink and her career. You can catch amandas oscar-nominated performance inmates streaming now on netflix. Big thanks to all of you for tuning in this week. If you want to hear more of my conversations with our guest every week be sure to click subscribe so you never miss an episode. And of course. Don't forget to tune in to sunday today. Every weekend on nbc. I'm willie geist. We'll see you right back here next week. On the sunday sitdown podcast.

david fincher oscar amanda William randolph hearst fallon willie geist Amanda marian davies oscars georgia netflix kane mary davies marion davies marian shannon david allentown rockefeller center upstate
Episode 153: Mank

The Film Buds Podcast

1:03:01 hr | 6 months ago

Episode 153: Mank

"Hello everybody welcome back to the film. Buds podcast this episode number one hundred and fifty three and my name is henry. And i'm paul and hear what this after little. Hi this is our friend. Jacob hours either jacob. It's great to see man. Yeah it's good we can. We can see this time as opposed to the last time you were here this. We have a oak. Jacob left so this week we have a review of david fincher manque currently on net flicks. And then we also have a listener question concerning passion project. Which of course. Manque is a passion project for david fincher and so we'll either do that in the review or perhaps right afterwards and picks of the week who who knows what else could come along. Thanks for joining us once again. Guys how you doing great to see you. Yeah great to be here. I'm doing pretty well finished watching manque today. also watched citizen kane again today as well So i'm pretty good. It was a honestly. It was a good day for a double feature jacob. How about you man. We haven't seen you for weeks. I also watched make today and spend still working staying at home and you know splitting my time between watching movies working playing video games sleeping. Sure the things that you do. Go anywhere cool paulie. Anything else going on with men or just same old now pretty much same old. You know watching stuffer this. You know working working the other podcasts. Same show now. I mean i guess it's been awfully pretty uneventful for like a a little bit now. Which is kind of nice. Yeah just plugging away. I recently watched The reedit of the godfather part three bright. Yeah so you know it's been. It's been pretty quiet. Yeah did you change up where you're positioned in your room. Yes okay. i'm on a different side of the table yeah I was noticing that i was like hold on. His background is different. Yeah i gotta. I gotta revenue poster back there. I mean the whole deal. The lava lamp. That's my favorite. Yes the broken lava lamp. That's been there for boris. No tragic. Yeah purely decorative at this point so yeah well guys Not too much else to mention. Really i mean do you want to get to it. Yes sure let's all right. Well let's get into our review of manque on netflix as we said and we do have a clip this time so take a listen a. It's awesome because what is it. Writer says tell the story. No yourself to home mr megawatts or shall quite you hermit. Peru's excuses herman mankiewicz where to call him. Manque words playwright and drama tradition screen rise. Mr her this is a business where the via gets nothing for his money but a memory of what he bought still belongs to the man who sold it all right well. Manque is directed by david. Fincher it stars. Gary oldman amanda freed. Lily collins tom pelfrey. Ro's howard tuppence middleton. Monica gassman. Charles dance many others. I think i am. I missing any big nil. It's a regular. Who's who was who's that. Yes and the synopsis is nineteen thirties. Hollywood is re evaluated through the eyes of scathing. Social critic alcoholic screenwriter. Herman j mankiewicz as he races to finish the screenplay of citizen kane parentheses forty one so This one has been we said. It's a passion project for david fincher and it was always meant to be a netflix movie. It's not one that was scheduled for theaters and then moved to net flix jacob. You got a cat there. That's cool and yeah well guys who who wants to kick things off as always i say the we Go ahead with jacob jacob. Ball's gonna say we should go ahead. Paul okay well you know what why not so al. I'll take it so i first off. I really enjoyed it. I thought that was great. I very much enjoyed watching it He really nailed the. You know the sort of visual aesthetic of watching an older film with a few exceptions of like some shots. That i was like. That's not right. That's that's a that's a modern cameras but With few exceptions. I thought that he nailed the the visual. Look i very much enjoyed it. I thought that it had a good message. I thought that it was well acted. I thought that you know it was. It was typical david. Fincher doing what what. David fincher does best which is ultimately at the end of the day. Still doing an examination of Socio pathy you know and the psychopathic mind. In a way you know. Because i think that even though he was doing it from the from the sort of perspective bank who was psychotically destroying himself while critique you man who was sort of psychotically destroying the world. I guess as far as he was concerned but i thought that it was really well done. Do i think that it's one. That will be remembered beyond like film people who love film. I don't know. But i think that it'll be remembered because i did. It and david fincher will be remembered. will now. How does this rank up with other venture films honestly for me pretty high. But maybe that's just because. I just really enjoyed my day surrounding i guess. Mine my watching of mankin my watching citizen kane and kind of you know doing a dive into research on on william randolph hearst and and mankiewicz and and that kind of thing. So maybe i'm just a little bit colored by my research dive. But i very much enjoyed it and i think that as far as especially his films like aren't about direct murderers. This is definitely one of the better ones. Sure jacob my friend. What about you like. I said i also watched it. Today i had heard the name of the movie a couple of times over the past. Your guess i knew absolutely nothing about it for some reason up until today when i looked up where i could watch it. I didn't i thought it was a ben wheatley. Movie ally why. I know he's got something coming and i was like god. This must be that. Been really movie and i was like oh state adventure movie. I didn't know he was making a new movie. So i found that out also no idea what it was about and i was a little bit into it before i realized what it was about and then sort of paused and looked a few things up just for some background than i was like. Oh this movie about the screenwriter of citizen kane. That sort of can contextualized. More for me than i went when finished the movie. It's a i think david venture kind of has this ability to make you care about whatever he puts in front of you so even when it fell dry or like maybe meandering a little bit. I was still like the like david. Fincher is still making me care about what i'm seeing and i'm still sort of magnetized screen because i just think like i don't think there's a david fincher movie. I've seen that. I've enjoyed are certainly ones that are better than others but i think he's just a master at saying. Take this you know box on a table. And i'm going to film it in such a way and give it a certain emotion that you're going to care about something that's happening and You know. I think that was sort of the case. Here that You kind of had to you. Know it wasn't like a exciting action movie or anything. It was like a psychological profile. And you kind of have to be in the right mood to watch that and you kind of have to be willing to exercise your brain when you're watching a movie like that and i i kind of felt like you know the exact opposite of the movie we all review together had to sit there and think about what i was watching over me happiest season here so yeah and of course gary oldman. I love him. I mean to see food is really good in this. The the black and white wasn't quite as good as you know going to a cedar and seeing it in black and white netflix kind of has that fake looking black and white but always good to see a black and white movie and yeah nothing but good things to say about ventures direction but yeah. That's that's pretty much calculates. My opinion for now. Alex you take away henry and then if you know something that i'll i'll add it all right Yeah well as said on the show before david ventures my favorite director and so i was looking forward to this especially since this was his first movie sends skunk girl. He had done mind hunter. But this was you know it had been a bit of a break for movies. And so i was definitely excited but also when i heard about it i thought of all the like david fincher stories that he could tell. I didn't get much interest from this one. Or i didn't think that's the one i would choose for him. I mean i would like to see the dragon tattoo sequel. I but this never going to happen. That's i know we were going to get the whole trilogy. But anyways different discussion and so i think as you guys were saying i think the craft of it is undeniably great. It's so well directed at looks. Incredible the score by trent reznor and atticus ross is amazing. One of their best acting. Jacob is you said very good. Although i do find that i think and it seems to be a fairly general consensus but i just did not think there was a whole lot of heart in it. I get that it's a passion project and we can maybe get to this later on but it seems like oftentimes a passion project for a director won't always come through and hit the same way for an audience as it does for them and so that was my main issue with it and i do find that if i ha- i say it's probably my least favorite david. Fincher movies sense benjamin button out. Give social network dragon. Tattoos zodiac and gong girl. Five's or four and a half and i still like this one a fair bed but it's probably the least least effective for me from him in a while but it's so well it's so detailed like the sound design even like the how people speak the kind of scratchy echo like hearkens back to one thousand nine hundred forty s and nineteen fifties films. It is just like the meticulous lighting. There's a scene maybe thirty minutes in where there's this auditorium like seating shot of or a people sitting in every single person in every single position is so meticulous and it looks amazing and so even things like that was just amazing to see because that's not a skill that comes out very often and by no i overall overall i liked it but i think it's it's lesser venture for me. I guess this is kind of a rare case. Where i get to be a little bit. A few suvs comparatively. Yes so you know. I didn't just do a little bit of research So i cracked out my old film history textbook written by the professor of the class. David a cook. This is the fourth edition. There's a fifth edition out the bad boys around eleven hundred pages and there is an entire chapter dedicated justice citizen kane and so i cracked up this bad boy. I cracked out my history of the cohen's thing i went deep like i had a an absolute blast. What's good and i think that the the heart of the film is in kind of almost the same kind of journey is a cane figure right. It's a journey almost downward and it has this almost happiest kind of ending. But much. Like william randolph. Hearst much like orson welles. Much like mankiewicz himself you know. It's it's it's a journey down after a lot of early success and a lot of people thinking that great things were going to come ultimately. Nothing came from that life and it was crushed by the mecca nations of of men. You know of people and ultimately i think it's also meant to be a cautionary tale right because of the core of the film. It's a message about the modern studio system and about its connection to politics about its connection to power in a very real way and so i think that maybe it might not have the the kind of instant fascinating charismatic pool of of jesse eisenberg in something like a social network or the perpetual mystery of zodiac. Instead you have to for this film you have to dig deep. You have to be steeped kind of in a lot of knowledge but that does bring around a point of criticism of the film. Which is that. I just pulled out a massive fucking textbook in a textbook. I washed second film. And i looked things up online and that ended up creating this incredible kind of narrative journey across the lives of multiple men in real life and fiction. And then i was really enjoying the whole thing and like. Don't get me wrong. I liked the movie beforehand. But it wasn't until i felt like i had a good grip on the history that i felt like i really loved the movie. And that is a fatal flaw of the film. Yeah yeah and i. I agree with that totally i. There are so many you know so many people injected into the movie and so you know so many characters and so many different locations that back to you know that film and classic hollywood which i love most of the time however watching it in one sitting. It wasn't enough to keep me captivated you know whereas there are other. You know other films like you know. Dragon tattoo social network zodiac that. Whether it was the world or the character it had me much more engaged. Right from the beginning and i think for whatever reason it didn't do that with bank and also all say i think while i get covid and everything i think having it released on netflix's was the worst choice. This should have been a theater movie. I would have happily waited another year to see this if i got to see it in a theater instead. Like the sound design the world itself. I think i would have enjoyed it so much more. If i got to see it on a big screen but of course that's a purely personal thing but no i agree with you. You totally paul. Jacob any any counterpoint though i generally find passion projects to be a lot like jazz like they tend to be films that are made by directors for other directors or other people that were like you know. Have a background knowledge to to sort of care about. You know what's happening you know. Not everyone has seen citizen kane. Not everyone knows why. That movie is important. No not everyone knows what movie means to film culture and film history and what it had has led to. And how if we didn't have that movie there'd be so many things that we don't have people that are film history buffs. Are you know learning to become director or a writer of people that are sort of like entrenched in the world. They're probably going to enjoy a director passion projects more than the casual viewer and paul said taking all this time to be enriched by the history behind the film leads to more enjoyable experience. That's obviously not something. Every single viewer is going to think to do or have the time to do. And i think that's where the problems passion projects come in. And that's why. I think passion projects a lot of the time one maybe not making as much money as a directors other films are not many people are going to see it but like that's okay david venture got this out. He wanted to do it. I'm sure he doesn't care if this doesn't become as profitable or as amazing as beloved as his other movies because it's something he is passionate about and that's the core of whatever seeing here is. Is that a movie like this is made for people like us. It's not made for you. Know my sister or mother or someone that just doesn't really think in the along the same lines as people like us to know for sure. One of good guide. Paul i was. I want so i watched it with lauren. My wife and she has never seen citizen kane. She doesn't know movie history the way that we know movie history and so like it wasn't until she is sort of sat down and really started getting into it but she was like. Oh okay now this more make sense and like she was still invested in journey. You know she's still thought that the characters were interesting that the narrative was engaging but most of the stuff about like what he was writing what he was doing was completely going over her head. Because you know ultimately this movie is kind of talking about you know the guy who's writing facebook but the problem is no one laughs. Jacob pointed out knows citizen. Kane is the fucking facebook of of modern cinema. And no one knows that you know mankiewicz before he did citizen kane was also one of the many ghost of of wizard of oz so no. That's absolutely it's a good point but from an outsider perspective. I will say this at least venture did do a good enough job of i guess writing the dialogue and staging the scenes. Well enough that even someone who had a baseline of zero was able to be like this is interesting. I don't know why. I should care. But i am interested that that brings you back to the point. I made about david fincher just having this unique ability to make anyone care about anything. Yeah oh yeah and i. I agree with that totally. I scenes that i was like it was so immersive and i was just so amazed by the amount of detail and i guess the oh maggio's and call backs to that world in coming from fincher. I know he cares about it so much and i know. He's so. Knowledgeable is just that there were scenes like that. That would be incredible. And then the next. I i would find myself kind of phasing out a little bit and so it was a little inconsistent for me in that way however even all that negative stuff aside like gary oldman incredible i mean the whole cast really is is solid and in terms of how david fincher is able to handle a lot of information. There are scenes where you know. There's probably maybe ten twelve people talking to each other in different ways. You know one person to another sometimes a few people at once and how he handles that through. Writing and editing is incredible and it's just a master of control that very few other directors have and that he's able to do very well like a like zodiac. There's so much information being thrown at you but you really almost never feel overwhelmed by it. And it's the same thing with The social network. Like you know those montages of like five or six different storylines going once you understand that totally. And so i think he carries that into this movie as well It's just that you know other things have already said you know heard a little bit. Yeah no absolutely ultimately. I i really really enjoy it. I think that it still fits into his his ultimate. You know filmography. Which is you know. A lot of stories of of psychopaths sociopaths. But more importantly of a lot of damaged men of a lot of bad fathers. And i think that if you really dig deep into this film it it has released solid a solid cautionary tale kind of message nod alike social network but it is a little isolating and and that is probably its greatest weakness but ultimately i i quite like it. It's a story. Not unlike most. Of what orson welles wrote about which again you know is is pretty much. All of his films are are downwards story. Arcs macbeth touch of evil. The lady from shanghai like all of his films are all you know about people who attain something and then lose it and squander it and fail and fall apart and and our unmade by their mistakes. And so i think that in a weird way he did you know in almost. I'm sure that this is something. Jeff adams would love. Yes and for that reason. It is a little bit of a problem for the general public. Yeah yeah and there are other films in this territory. like hail. Caesar is you know. Not not totally the same thing. But i i love that film and maybe that's more so just because it's a light comedy where it's more serious but as we said the film history aspect of it is fascinating and i think that it will go up because of that because yeah you're the like basically what you put into. It is what you're gonna get from it and so if you do the research be will get more out of whereas if it's just a casual viewing probably not going to like it. That much as the majority of people that i've talked to who have seen it have had told me no absolutely guys anything anything else big about it. Watch it with citizen kane. If you can. I mean i know that. That's like a really big thing but like you know it's like four hours of your day but you. Yeah you know. If you have the time by happenstance. i'd watch both of them together. Almost kind of like watching apocalypse now with hearts of darkness. you know. I think that it's another example. Would be watching knows virata with shadow. The vampire great. You know sort of two stories that inform each other really really well and create an interesting narrative of two different generations of filmmaking as well and And one more time the the reservoir and atticus ross score is so good like it shows that they can do more than just eerie like ambient electronic. Sounds like. it's it's a fantastic score. Jacob anything else for you man how now. How does this rank for you with fincher. Probably somewhere in the middle. I'm looking at his entire from outer fee. Yeah are you generally a fan of his films. Like i mean. Do you like them more often than not. Yeah he's up there. He's one of my favorites There's only one movie. I haven't seen and it's gone girl. I've been meaning to get around to it for the longest time. But just haven't but yeah i even have it on blu ray around her somewhere just needs to watch it. Nice all right. Paul any last things for you all right. Do we wanna raise this bad. Boy let's do it all right. Jacobsen's is started with my opinions when you take it away with the your ranking or your your grade while this one was actually kind of tricky number by the end of a movie. I don't really don't have to think about it that much. I'm just like you know there's the rating but for this. I have a fair bit of thought into it. And i i think i i came to a four point five out of five because i think i enjoyed it enough for it to be that high but it wasn't like an instant five for me or anything but it also was like even when i was like. Oh maybe i want to write this a three. I mean like it was crafted so highly and it was Such a good movie for someone who invested in the history and the you know what it's actually talking about. That i was like i gotta put it. Put it up there personally. So yeah four point five. Yeah this is. This is better than scoop for sure. Yeah paul honestly. Yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna go four point five four me four four someone who may not know what's going on does just willing to try and it's honestly probably a hard to for anyone who just doesn't know anything just kind of puts this on for the fuck of it like i have lead for me. It's an honest four point five. All right i'll go. i'll go light for. Yeah that's and could go up or down rewatch you knows while whatever you like our with the dragon tattoo sidhu. It's one of my favorites was are we not all fans of with the tracking tattoo. Here all that's another day. A but the thing is i think in terms of like the viewership. I think it was ever on the top. Ten of netflix's. Like i know i was thinking it would be like that. It would be there but it never. I don't think it ever got there. I think even only been out a couple of weeks but you know. Oh no but i mean for god's sakes you can sneeze ended up on the top end of netflix. So the fact yank hasn't even crept up there with the you know gary oldman being attached tells me a lot you think. I was looking at their twitter the other day they were putting out their top ten. And i like the queen's gambit was on there which by the way is fucking phenomenal all the solid like some kids movie or something like like some brazilian kids movie like cocoa mellon or something was like number two like. How does this even happen. So many parents out there. There's sledding their kids put on some kids movie or something and then shoots up into the top. Three on the flex gets i. Think that aver or is it. Is it avo that just chastain movie at that spy film. I think that's number one right now. Somehow you know how yeah so. Yeah well cool well with the reviewed on. I guess we can get onto the listener question unless there's any any big news pieces. You wanna touch on the. I guess the decision the order brose bed. We're talking about that last night with the theatre. Yeah the hbo. Max yeah it's it's gonna be a mean it's only getting. I guess it's only getting more heated. Now people are just. I mean danny villaneuva came out. He was pissed. I mis read the title of the article for like a sort of click video. Whatever i thought it meant that they're taking their entire twenty twenty one slate releasing it on the same day on. Hbo maximum theaters. And i was like zeca work. They are no but because it's going to be no he. He didn't understand that it was in date with theatrical release thought that they were tayo the entirety of the years catalog dropping all of it on a single day. Oh i see yeah no. Let's let's do that because there are so many articles seen that made. It seem like that was happening. They were phrase so weirdly. And i was like you know because it was like warner bros. Is releasing all of their movies on. Hbo accent theaters on the same day. And i was like what i'd say so but but i understood in the end all right. Well I guess we can get to our listener question. So the film buds podcast edgy. Mail dot com is where you can reach us at also facebook twitter and instagram at film buds. I think yeah sounds right And so yeah please. If you're a new listener or if you've been listening for a while place any questions comments greetings we we love hearing from from you out there so this one comes from mandy in charleston so not too far away from us disappointing. Yes they say. Hi henry and paul. Sorry jacob mentioned jake so all right so they say with your review of manque. Do you find that most quote unquote passion projects. Turn out well for audiences. I e martin scorsese's silence vin diesels. The latch the last witch hunter. Basically the same film. Terry gilliam's the man who killed don quixote etc. Love the podcasts. Always tyrant and also at a passion project arthur soda hunter. But i would say no. I think that you know as i as. I explained before i think. Passion projects are either something that directors are making for other directors or something that they're just like this is my thing. I don't care whether you like it or not. This is my thing. And you know. I i feel like you know what i said. The irish matter of fact. That definitely happened with irishman. Wear as it was like. I'm making a four hour movie. You know fuck this is this is my thing is what i've been wanting to do for years and then people were like that's terrible and then he was just like well here it is you know i love it and so i think i think no i don't think passion projects generally have the audience in mind. You know maybe all one of you thinks differently you know. I think that it's hard to first off. Every film should be a passion project. But that's beside the point second of all know every film that you're making should be something that you care about if you don't care about it in some kind of way that's the reason that its crab. And then you're the reason to blame. But i think they're incredible passion projects out. Their schindler's list is incredible. Passion project of a film citizen kane was for all intents and purposes a passion. Project malcolm x. was a passion project so i think that passion projects are just like ultimately any genre of film. They can work or they can't. It's it's ultimately dependent on what the topic is and it is ultimately even more than the topic. It's it all boils down to execution. And so if you have all of the passion but you just absolutely fucking do not cut that souffle correctly. It doesn't matter how passionate you were going to be shitty souffle. But if you're passionate has helen. You managed to nail it then. Yeah it's it's a great masterpiece and and it's remembered ask such. Yeah yeah. I agree with like martin. Scorsese like even more so than the irishman silence. As mandy mentioned like that was something he had been trying to get made for. I don't know twenty thirty years. Something like that and i agree it as a lot of things like this. It does come down to execution and some of the can. Just be with how people receive. It can be how long you've been around. You know someone who has made you know twenty years of great films. I mean go for You know make the film you wanna make. I mean you've deserved at that point. So so i think sometimes in terms of how people receive it and how they view it it is. I think the level and And respect you have in hollywood or wherever it is and i think. That's a big factor. Say it's hard to judge how many passion projects have failed and how many other succeeded. Because paul as you said you know there are plenty of films that directors love. That never get mentioned you know and so it's kind of hard to say no that's not a passion project i mean. Obviously everything michael bay does is a passion project but you know Ended i guess it's also a question of of what is a passion project you know because if it's just duration of time well you know quentin tarantino had the script for inglorious bastards back when he was working on pulp fiction. That's when he was. Right churning out drafts of that one. So if it's just a question of time will that opens up the door. I'm sure for any number of films that have just been stuck in development. Hell so i don't know passion passion survey question. I think the passion should always be present artistry because that's where artistry actually happens is within passionate and use of self in an use of of what you not create something special. Yeah and it's like a no go ahead. Jacob what you said henry about like having a certain amount of prestige sort of like allowing you to just you know. Go for a bike. Whatever you want don't think about the audience. Don't think about the money you know. Just do your thing yeah. I think it's hard to say how successful you would be if you were director and you were putting out something like bank or the irish woman as like your first movie. Ever you know that would be First of all be like. Where did you get the money. But second of all you know. Yeah like it so it'd be hard to say like like how you know. How successful would you be with that. Because i mean. I've been looking at any hard numbers. I don't know how successful something like silence. The irishman make relief was in terms of profitability or audience critique. But i definitely think being prestigious helps with getting those things made because when you're just starting out cannot have to make a name for yourself before you can really put something like that out unless you have a lot of money like executor dolan then you can just do whatever the hell you want sir because you have tons of money already but yeah i feel like i'm rambling but anyways you get the picture. Yeah no i. I agree i you can get away with creating something incredible that an audience can react to where it is a untested artist in that medium with total control. I mean it certainly get out was a passion project. I mean it's a case by case basis scenario and so i think that they certainly can be good for the audience again. I just think passion is a is a vague term. As as far as as far as young people who got to make a passion project that the got away with where they had complete control as a as a little funds sidestep citizen kane and largely the reason that was unsuccessful wasn't actually because of the lack of the quality of the film. it was because of the very very pointed efforts of people. louis b. Mayer and randolph hearst to make the film ultimately on exhibited bowl That led to its failure just as little fun film history sidestep but he was like twenty four twenty five when he made that film crazy. I think that's what that's why filmmaking will never be an objective art. It's it's so incredibly subjective. Because it's like you know what bakes a director. You know some went to school. Some didn't go to school. You can make something you can make an oscar nominated or festival award winning movie on an iphone you can you know daca screenplay out of the park on your first try sex. It's so subjective. You don't you don't need a certain amount of money to do this. You don't need a certain amount of prestige to the sino. i know. Maybe that's a little bit. Contrary to what i was saying before but i think you know thinking about it more. It's just it's all incredibly subjective. No always will be. It's a lot of just how much passionate you're putting into it. Are you in the right place at the right time. Are you making your thing at the right point in history has lots of things that have to come together and filmmaking ended all art but yeah yeah yeah passion subjective. Yeah no i agree and like talking about like directors like tim. Burton was young when he did like beetlejuice. And and those early films and same thing. With spielberg i mean. He made jaws when he was in his mid twenties. I think west was anderson. Young guy kevin young man Quentin tarantino young. Ma'am i mean Steven spielberg was part of the group known. As like you know the film school. brad's him. George lucas and brian depalma. An martin scorsese and francis ford coppola. Yeah the young man. Yeah exactly. And i saw i think again. Passion is like those films are full of passion because you know they were just starting out and they were going to do their absolute best and not say that they aren't doing that now or trying to but maybe i guess maybe the the commentary is more so like when there have been these recent projects and they say. Oh it's a passion project for david fincher or it's a passion project and there's it's more of a news piece than just a personal feeling and so passion project now that you mentioned that honestly kind of ends up being used in the same kind of way that like method actor gets used. It's this kind of weird ego inflating where creating prestige. You know kind of thing and it's like oh was this person. Actually method acting is actually a passion project or was this exercise in ego. And maybe that's what makes or breaks the passion project. Is it actually a passion project or is at an exercise in ego. Finke account talked about that. On the podcast. Before i i'm very i'm a very strong opinion about method acting. I think that if you're method acting you're a bad actor that's my you know. I think that's a hot take. Maybe but i think to method act. You know i mean that that's completely contrary to what acting is. My wife studied acting and she's not necessarily a method actor and not necessarily a fan herself. So you're you're not alone. Yeah yeah you at least have one more far. Yeah yeah well Anything else in particular about this this topic now and by the way mandy is that right yes mandy. The boot was not about wear. Your location is charleston's fine it's more just. I'm still waiting for someone to message us. From one of these far off countries that apparently we have listeners. yes. I'm waiting for some coward in berlin to finally now find the coverage and emails film buds. I dunno for or not but yet probably won. So what was the country. Were very popular in well. I mean we were popular. I mean jacob. I don't know if you're on on the show for this. But we've we've been downloaded in sixty nine countries since we started buds. I think the highest one is japan. I don't know if that's still the case japan. You better stop playing. I probably hear all actually one. I give me a hot second and i'll up and see what's the hot site now rely. How reliable are those analytics. I mean you can eat moderate or anything or you. There's no way to say they could be completely full of shit. I trust them. So let's see our top three. Of course the united kingdom's is second. Singapore is third. Japan is fourth. Russia is v. Spain is sixth and germany's seventh. So there you go come on folks do better think that just shows how much of the world the second language and how much we as americans do not sorry. Lotta lotta english-speakers out there are. I mean maybe they'll send you the podcast and they don't speak english. It's just the background. Yes just our voices is calming enough. It's someone just putting it on to drown the sound of them crying alone. Been there but yeah well. Thanks again for the question mandy. Always feel free to reach out in whatever way and yeah well again. The film butts podcast at g. Mail dot com is where you can reach us at so. Don't hesitate send a message now so all right. Well i guess we can enough with our picks of the week. What would you guys been watching anything. Jacob taken while it's funny. What paul said earlier about watching and citizen kane together and how. That's four hours of your day. Because the other day to two days ago i woke up at like five in the morning just because i was sitting there and i was like you know what. I don't have a lot of work to do today. Only going anywhere else. What i wanted to do today and i got this wild urge house like i wanna watch lord of the rings. I've never actually seen the extended versions of these movies. So i got my friend. Download all three of them on his media server. And i and. I went for some time around six. Pm was done and the be all the better for it. yeah. I had a good time. You're a better man. So so that's that's what i was doing on monday. Which is your favorite. I don't know. I feel like. I don't know i'd have to say return to the king but i enjoy the fellowship of the ring a lot more because the last time i watched any of these movies as when i was like ten and i was like man. These are boring. Because i was just a completely different person back then and then watching them all now as an adult with all of this film analysis background than film history background and knowing what i know now about like peter jackson and the lord of the rings and everything and having read them now you know it was a much different experience. It was a very enjoyable experience. You know i was like wow. These are like masterfully made movies. That are not boring at all. I'm clinging onto every word. I'm enjoying every scene. And i'm enjoying the acting in the world building in a much different experience from watching them on my dvd player at ten years. Old probably half paying attention and being like you know. I'd rather be playing xbox or something i don't know we don't we always and yeah. I'm really good at just sitting in consuming content for hours on end. Now a lot of people. You're think a lot of people think that director is going to make a movie more than like an hour and thirty minutes that they should be sentenced to death or something. But i watched all three of those like three and a half hour movies and i watched the irishman in a single sitting. It just doesn't bother me. I'm jealous jacob. It's a gift few have. who's your. Who's your favorite character. You know. I felt like i had a thought was super lame when i was a kid but again again it really turned to turn around watching these the other day and i was like you know. He's he's a pretty cool guy. The in two rocks paul. Who's your character. Same wise okay. Heart and soul. The whole thing fro does a fucking little idiot. He's like the harry potter. You know none. Another is also a huge eighty. No harry potter actually did a few things. He was frodo was fucking useless. That'll jacob any any other viewings for you since august. The pretty much ate up everything. I watched cramps again. Classic christmas slash halloween movie my therapy so you enjoyed. That's like my fourth year or something doing that movie other than that no. I don't think. I don't think. I really washington thing i think. I probably watch like the queen's gambit a second time with my sister. I think that happened in the period since i last spoke to you but yeah so coup paul about you man. Okay so i watched. The re edited the godfather part three godfather. Coda the death of michael corley on. I had never seen the third godfather at all because everyone was like the first two of the best. So i was like okay years ago when i first watched the just watched the first two and i i left it at that. I moved on and so i decided to watch this reedit without having any experience with the godfather three before and i liked it you know. Is it necessary. No does it really do anything like the godfather wanted to don't do no but it's it wraps up the story a fine enough way. I think that if this is his final version of what the film was supposed to be than than it's it's good you know. I'll have to go back and watch the other version. To to give an opinion. I guess on on how they stack up against each other. But i really liked it and if you have seen the godfather three you hate it. I don't know maybe it's worth a watch for you because also some time away from things can make you feel differently about them as well and in a world. Where films should the bed. Always you know also citizen kane if you haven't watched going launched it. It's it's you know one of the same writers as the wizard of oz. It has some of the most modern filmmaking. Technics of any film made that time it's about twenty years ahead of its time it has overlapping dialogue. It has long takes. It has advanced light design. It was actually shot on a budget that most people don't realize was under a million dollars was pretty cheap film and it's a remarkable of cinema history. That if you haven't seen it will enlighten you on how we got here. Okay professor adams old. holy shit. Sorry spoiler spoiler thing by the way random thing did anyone else fucking love manque. The bill nye the science guy was upton fucking sinclair. Oh i don't think. I don't think i noticed. I noticed. okay bill nye. The science guy is upton sinclair notorious journalists who wrote the jungle all about the horrid meat-packing conditions in for office. If you're if you notice the first thing that triggered me was the voice because you just see him like sort of three quarter profile than you finally see him in profile. So there's a little. There's a little bill nye the science guy cameo and you're listening to this. I don't know what you came here for. Honestly that's a weird pick. This is after the movie podcast for shore. You don't watch this before why you would But yeah bill nye the science guy for sorry i got. That was a total random outbursts. But yeah going watch citizen kane pollen any vera. Mentions for you watches. No i think that's pretty much it you had. What have you been watching. I got a couple of things i'll i'll mention. I watched child forty four with tom. Hardy gary oldman and numero dos and we are talking about favorite actors. The other week and tom hardy numero dos are two two for me and this is a movie based off a thing. It's a a a series of novels and it takes place in the soviet union and it's about the string of child murders and tom. Hardy is military officer. Who is tasked with finding this that the killer and i love you know mid twentieth century pieces and so that's what drew me to the movie and i liked the movie. I want to like more than i do. I think the biggest issue with it is the direction is just kind of sloppy. There's a lot of plot and it's not handled all that. Well but i think the the setting and considering the amount of like hollywood money put into a kind of a weird one movie like. This is kind of interesting on its own. But it's it's still a cool movie and it's you know i really liked tom. Hardy and i. I really liked new. Dos and gary oldman. He's always great. and i. i think the reason for rewatching it is. I'm listening to a biography audio book of stalin. Which is fairly interesting and i i only have. Let's see maybe thirty eight hours left of part one so you know. I'm coming close to the end. Know that many hits is it. There's two parts. Oh at least two. Yes still have gosh. I don't know about sixty hours left here. I think. I think the book itself is like eleven hundred pages so it's fairly long and this whole audio book you're telling me is is about as much time as it took for that one guy to cut off his arm in that canyon. Yes okay aims franken. Yeah yeah it is. But that's that's an interesting read and so if you like mysteries and if you like those actors out give it a look at some point you know i. It's worth watching and it has gone up a little bit on rewatch like once you get a more handle on the plot at a little bit better and then i'll say i'll pull a paul here. I've been playing a video game called unravel and it's this like the house will platform game. I guess you can call it. And it's this creature made of yarn and it's just you accomplishing objectives. And you know kept going across the landscape and just solving different puzzles and all that stuff. And i'm actually going to be talking to the composer's in january because the score is amazing. Have you noticed the narrative happening in the background. Perhaps alec i've only played a little bit of it so okay. There's like a loose narrative that's happening in the background of both unravel unravel to What's the what's the the narrative will. Now you gotta go and play and find out and listeners can tune in next week to find out more. Yeah that's true. Yeah low teaser. There yeah but no the the game is really fun. It's just it's very calming relaxing game. And you know i i love the music and it's yeah it's a really. It's one of those games. That's kind of under the radar and it's quiet and peaceful and it's just a cool little escapist game to play especially with the world that we're in right now. Yeah and let's see that might be about it i. It's amazing that it came from a multi year wedding in a row worst company in america. E yeah hey man something something. I found to be a little bit darkly humorous. I guess wanted to share about my lord of the rings watch was so they're downloaded onto my friends media survey which also includes like it as much of sort of other flavor information like it has a bunch of reviews that were written at the time of release fellowship of the ring was released in two thousand one of course december two thousand one so three months after nine. Eleven and there was a review in their from some small magazine. It wasn't anything big or whatever and they were just like even if fellowship of the ring doesn't manage to save what is otherwise disastrous year. At least we have another one to look forward to next year. And i can only imagine that was in reference to nine eleven house like i think this this man was suggesting that the fellowship of the ring might repair the damage that nine eleven has done to our country. Well at least it worked for him. At least it made him feel better about nine years like those movies for me. Like my star wars. You know those were the ones that i that. I impacted me is in terms of like movies being more than just entertainment. And so. I don't know if i don't know if they saved feel like they saved the country or they repaired the country but they did a lot for me personally. I think i mean. I guess there's something to be said for like something coming out at that time that can be entertainment and rally everyone to a common. Oh yeah joy enjoyment or whatever so totally. Well all right. Well i mean guys. I know where i know revive in right now. I mean we could. Is there anything else. Y'all y'all wanna talk about. I mean i you know it's also y'all think that the i think that i'm all right. I'm okay i'm fried. I read a whole chapter on citizen kane today battle. Knock you off for a week. It will all be operating for a little Are you are you not a fan of the mcu yeah you. Oh yeah okay. Good good taste. He a heated argument with a friend of mine earlier. Who i've known for years that he hates it. But i was. You know we get an argument. Still yeah he thinks like the worst thing to happen cinema. Which of course many people sure that opinion. But i had to stand my ground and defend my opinion that i actually think they're worthwhile and have some very emotional themes in good story telling but you have to actually allow yourself to be in the head space to realize that not go in with all this negativity but i could go on and on so now. Yeah absolutely just as a little random quick story you know. My dad reese rewatch one of the marvel films and he was like. Wow there's so much going on. And yes yeah. I have to see and jacob there. You know that's perfect spot. Jacobson show to show out there. It is nice. Hiccup has the the whole series. Yeah that's six hundred dollars going for about four thousand on ebay now was that was that a pre pandemic purchase jacob resent was that. Yes but yeah. It's it's you know in another ten years i can get ever saga is next. Who knows we'll keep you updated on that one. Well yeah i guess that about. Does it for the show this week now. Next week i know tenant is out by it's it might just be only available for purchase. But i'm you know if y'all wanna do that for national suck and i don't care and so we you know that i'm down for that next week jacob. If you are that that'd be great. I know friend of the show sky who we all went to to school with has expressed interest. He just watched it. I did yeah. Yeah yeah i saw that he. He reviewed it. He's always putting out reviews that guy. He's views facebook icon iconic staff and maybe look for that week and just stay updated on social media and the film buds dot com. That's you can find out all that great stuff. And i mean it's great to see. Thanks so much for taking the time. It's always it's always nice. Always all right. Well everybody please stay safe. You know we have a nice holiday season be smart be safe and yeah slamming rock on next time.

david fincher jacob kane mankiewicz netflix Fincher Manque herman mankiewicz paul gary oldman david atticus ross henry Gary oldman amanda tom pelfrey howard tuppence middleton Monica gassman flix jacob jacob jacob mankin
Why Gary Oldman Opted To Not Use His Legendary Chameleon Skills In Mank

Direct from Hollywood

03:02 min | 7 months ago

Why Gary Oldman Opted To Not Use His Legendary Chameleon Skills In Mank

"Around fortune slate of podcasts offers insider access and opinion from the people redefining business today on reinvent fortune explores how entire industries are rapidly. Transforming in a world turned upside down by the coronavirus pandemic subscribe to fortune. Reinvent wherever you listen to podcasts. Ever wondered why there are two ways to spell donuts or why some people think you can find water underground just by wandering around with a stick believe it or not. This is stuff you should know. You know the podcast. With over a billion listens. It's now for your eyes so you can read it stuff. You should know an incomplete compendium of mostly interesting. Things covers everything from the origin of the murphy bed to why people get lost preorder. It stuff you should know. Dot com or wherever books are sold with ryan. Gary oldman is widely regarded as one of the biggest chameleons enacting. He's played and look like everybody. From sex pistols. Sid vicious to lee harvey oswald and jfk to dracula but in his latest role net flicks period piece manque. He plays real life. Citizen kane screenwriter. Herman j meko it and looks nothing like the actual guy. The truth is gary was more than willing to go. Through regular transformation even gain white puck his hair line and we're prosthetics but director. David fincher wasn't interested. He tells variety. I told him no. We've got to watch. Ub this guy and they're coming nothing unofficial between the audience and you. I need somebody walks into a room and everyone would say that's the guy you need. An actor's actor if you're casting based on heightened airline. You're missing the point clearly. Gary didn't need any prosthetics to owned the character because he's widely considered to be a front runner. For best actor oscar nomination manque hits netflix. Fourth direct from hollywood yoder's yeezy urban philosopher philanthropists in the host of the recession podcast a production of the black affect podcast network and iheart radio. I'll bring you raw conversations about systemic racism mental health life on the streets and much more so join me on the recession podcast by cheesy. Yes r. e. s. e. s. s. i. o. n. Podcast on the iheartradio app apple. Podcasts a web. You prefer your cares earthlings. it's cash. I'm so excited to be bringing you my new podcast cash and the creepiest. You may know me from my party. Channels like we are tiktok. But it's my curiosity for the unexplainable. The medical the magical the drives these conversations with exciting pop culture guests and experts. In the occult and all things creepy. Listen and follow keshon. The creepiest on the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to podcasts.

Herman j donuts Gary oldman lee harvey oswald David fincher jfk iheart ryan gary netflix Gary oscar hollywood apple
Meet The Nominees Theatrical Feature Film Symposium 2021 - Part 3 of 3 (Ep. 304)

The Director's Cut

31:10 min | Last month

Meet The Nominees Theatrical Feature Film Symposium 2021 - Part 3 of 3 (Ep. 304)

"Hello and welcome back to the director's cut brought to you. By the directors guild of america in honor of the seventy third. And you will. Dj awards we're bringing back. Our annual series of episodes devoted to our popular meet the nominees theatrical feature films symposium the event which celebrated its thirtieth anniversary. This year is a roundtable discussion with directors nominated for the guild's award for outstanding direct toyo achievement in theatrical feature film. This year's nominees include lee isaac chung the director of minority emerald fennell. The director of promising young woman. David fincher the director of manque. Aaron sorkin the director of the trial of the chicago seven and play out the director of nomad land. These talented directors gathered on april tenth to discuss the craft of directing and the making of their films with moderator. Jeremy kagan in front of a virtual audience so please enjoy part three of our meet the nominees special and listen to the five nominees. Show their thoughts on working with a dis. The last image they wanted to leave the audience with and how they handle pressure. You made some very very specific choices in terms of cava. You're a lot of short. Lots of shots that have had ruled. Can you talk about your usa camera moving. I think we're guessing in new skin route like kassy's wells so she's very slow on. Dale is about raising these points. Ya were olmo flashing and not It really helps opened war sunshine slightly too much heavier more things. in the in the frame maybe authorized. Yes muzy hope doesn't stalled a minute when we did use tiny tiny bits. You missing is control. Motioning in things really sell to itself his men things things like scene in the pharmacy. Total different cameras style than others scenes. Where you're much more formal but also about in in fact that we had in the clip the short citing. This is a technique that you know. Listen as used a hundred years ago but it's also something that's become quite common now and i'm interested in how you sort of committed to it and why what you feel what you feel from it when you use it when through surgery will sit searching an eye on where i'm road. I'm with you so on his script on a single with the looking room was looking right to laugh. Oftentimes you create you know. Some people will register the person in the center of the frame. Some people will give them looking room and then you can also take that looking away and they can be. You can see the edge of the frame here at least more room for thaw. So i even though. We've got married screens david if you go to your screen left and i go to my screen. We're going to be probably i. Somehow the point is in the normal thing would be to have them separated. I done you put them sorta right next to each other. And so the phrase you short. And i'm shocked yet. So why did you choose to do those. Well i think i mean my feet most defying knock jogging her mutual look cool now did look out for me is it. You know things all even. That sounds incredibly are kind choice. Means racing's the package of spaces was to as is in on easy. You can get into much space between or you know some of the time you'd find that cassie was sent not long that kind slightly on your comfortable. It's a knee generous. The he it was. I'm just it helps create tension. Those got no fassa Let's talk with our direct royal team star by working with assisted directors David what's your experience particular man in working with your system hadn't worked with richard before we talked him out. I'm gonna do another film. And then that went away. And so. And i asked him if you wanna do manque and so was the first time that somebody sort of outside. My fear of influence had been subjected to me which with no warning so I i the richard thought he was incredibly. Is the perfect guy for this movie. Because it was it was very hot. Listen i been living with this thing for so long is staged the whole movie five or six different times with tenor. Twelve cast members in each role. And so i had been thinking about it for so long that it was it was it was essential to like actually kind of see it through through the eyes of all who who weren't expecting every moment and didn't know white wine came up with the fish and it was actually a great thing but i i normally work with an assistant director in a slightly different way. I think than most certainly not than maybe maybe aaron earlier. But i i don't leave. I don't have a trailer. I don't have wifi fi. And i'm in my chair and i'm gonna leave appointed. I'm going that dude. That guy june hanging that lamp of there. I don't want that i am. I am the proverbial fly in the ointment. So show i. I was probably very taxing for for salmon and richardson. And and. But i. But i i try to be. I'm never be a a softish land on. But i i try to be at least understanding on. There's a certain amount of inertia that that ninety ninety people have and getting the whole that getting the whole thing on its feet in the morning is always for me though. I wanna get out of the gates fast. And so what are you asking your assistance assistant records to specifically do for you i mean is scheduling more important or is it their behavior on set back. Make that move or is it a deal now. I'm listen this set and not in a nada No i think. I looking for somebody to be my eyes in ears in terms of you know i get this a lot. You know from from costume designer in tristan rebels. Somebody were a lot you know. We have a whole screening process or like crazy and she. Will you know after seeing everybody trailers getting everybody ready in their inherent make. She will comment. She'll april sarah. Person deep background is. I don't know if they're gonna make it the whole day. This person did not agreed listener. And she'll download it all for me so that i have some kind of armed with you know and then they d to make sure that. We're everybody's focused on the. I'm never gonna be the guy who's gonna be presented with. Somebody's idea of what it should be. I mean aaron been there. It's it's it's not. It's not so much about like you know everyone is conspiring me but it made simply that i where else am i going to be like. What am i going to be doing. I'm not going to be honest. Khloe tell us about workman on this kind of film Working with iraq on we. We have a very If i look at it you might like pulp. View of how the there's little core and thus me are sounds no rush summit serve vp and actors and is three sixties. Everyone else either run fast or they hide and an everything else is making things happened far away so our ad. Mary is reading wine person between this core and the rest of the group that as we move our sometimes this the other teams to make this thing happen as what will be worse while being three sixty so she is as much as a strategy also athlete. She hasn't run their faucet now the plays on the high time so she had the right type of and she. She is excited about that. She worked within xilin. He's a wild and when the our world and she's excited about trying to go to the real world and come as much as we can and I also i. I like to be quite in charge of the schedule. Just because it's sort of in my head with the with the the hosing. The added a washer daily night before read rise. So it's almost the ep to to pull this together. And mary did physically be a voice of the producers under and logistics telling me actually under this and then and he's just tell me what i what i what are the parameters and then i'd psych class much as i want and so the communication like you said star as quick as possible is not had this big meeting where everyone is just hogging. Just tell me two three. Okay what i do okay and then just years why you go tell right now. So we can start downloading meetings. One of the things about working with this isn't your address is is obviously working with background artists That that sometimes is their responsibility and with things like amazon lunch scene. Where you've got a thousand people in remember. I mean you're just director may not have been able to help them. All in terms of the jurors said since the shot that how you set that up with your without the help of your eighty will we pass the people that are already working there Celebrate they just happened to be at that time and we have shocked during the now not so sure. Now we brought everyone. After it finished lunch we got people agreed to stay and they just come back in position them in a way that may sound shots especially the west shops and in just that. Mary's helping coordinate. So a lot of that is working when you have are the isaac. You work with us director your with this one. It was just so rushed a fellow. We gave him an impossible task. Jeff debray was first. ad I think we got the master schedule on the first woman. Prepping and i think the first day we're shooting like eight scenes on the first day. I was day one and then our launch day. We shot seven and a half ages of script. Asto remember that number So i mean that was just the nature of of this this film. So what normally would happen. Is i would have my meetings with lock or dvd and we would be figuring out. How do we do this day. Normally with every scene we know we can only max out your four setups. That was the number that that we use. Everything had to be very efficient and jeff had to be with us all the time just listening and being things together and then he would run off end and and jeff everything organized while he was just. He ran an impeccable camera. Team and Yeah it was just kind of that. He needed to be a good listener. Just run and try to make it work and one of the things that was important for him was to always be whispering in my ear. How much more time we have with allen. Jen is you know you only have six hours. So that's okay you just arrived. You have this amount of time and then every every hour or thirty minutes they tell me. Okay you have this much more time with allen we have to react to that is well getting stressed talking about it so dr time of gone down but i would ask to graduate buddies. They wanna go. Directors are on your system director. What was your experience. We had got legendary a joe. Ridi east phenomenal. I was so lucky. well-worked work with him. You're able to give tips not hips david out of action scenes right outta shoot actions. Zeiger sure it mostly about how to shoot action. And by the way isaac seven page scene is obviously a worse off. Joe joe ron set. There were a lot of season chicago. Seven with a lot of background He and his seconds Had had to run that too. But i would I had no preference in terms of the order that we were the order of the setups. Except that i was obviously you want to start with the mastery. Want starting as far away. As i use that as rehearsal time knowing i m not going to spend more than a second in the master at the attic bro and i leave it to joe to move saturday long You know i. I would say to him. I i get why it takes a long time to sleep setups or sometimes even in between takes but then we arrive at a moment where i feel like everything's been done all that anywhere. We're all here. We're ready to go and what's happening. Now is just kind of abstract business. That i don't understand and that's the moment where looking at and i. I have to believe that the other four of you have said this many many times to. What are we waiting for right. What is it. it's accurate. Were waiting on right now. This is where gas hidden user. Just a taste times. Did i beg you to hit the winco boss. Twins tear-gas state tell us isn't director. Now you do no know no. I'm susan i i hate nations are up a wedge into once icon. Imagine anything will solve having to discuss actually In in that way. I can own mine. Wonderful might foss was just staring down of schedule sisyphean. How and so earlier. It was like it was like how we doing this. How can we. And i think was very missions. S- very much inspired or a negative He was he was on. The i think mostly Not mates this on. He was like yeah. I just need. It's i needed somebody to wrong. And mike gentlest kindest as well. I have two more questions for all of you The first question. I'm going to tell you what they are. But let's go around. The circle of the first question is the very last image that you leave your audience within each one of your movies. Can you talk about that very last image and the second last question. I'm going to ask is what do you do with pressure. How do you. How do you handle pressure. So but we'll go around. I m that last image. Which is i believe the phone Talk about how that how you decide to leave your movie on your last image. A tricky one. I want to see her loss. Larry or not yet about. It's winky face. G which turning the routes is sponsored lost exit and thinking. Yeah intermission cillian over on a job. And then what was going gonna come around what you do with pressure but hall or say you cannot have rusher by thinking about what you're doing gresham go round david. The last image in the script And it was a. It was a hopeful. It was nonsense. Never really happened in real life. He was presented with a with an oscar after after the ceremonies. And what he says in the film is something that he said to someone else Yeah i i shopped the script. And i deal with pressure when no not yet. Who does was a charlie rose. What about you in the last image when she's walking out of your frame well as she does not the last imitable interesting. You say that because in the scrub the last image is hard leaving the door. I and i when i went to a buyer south doing development new a new movie and it's been alive and then annihilating. I didn't think i gusti the end but then happens angry and i start getting knows saying we need a little more and you know meet him i now i am the answer. Her leading the house and then as time went on i i am is true. I came the hope. Requests usually never do that radio on my jew. I was feeding the weight's going you know. Maybe it's time to see van moving down the road and just keep alive and you will feel. The bill ended leaving the door You did and so then. You have this other image which i e majors is of course the emotional effect that the last image of any movies now should the credits and the music and all kinds of other things can happen but there is an. You're right down the road in a sense Is the experience of your last hour. Then but i remember to ask. Were walking evolution. Isaac if i remember correctly the last image moves in on of creek. Do remember and how that evolved for you to be last. You're movie yeah. I from the writing phase that i would ended there I i never i. What i didn't know is who would be at the manetti creates. That was something that i was working with but I'm an amid sense to me to end it with its steven jahn and allen. Ken audience on Is ultimately. I felt like this is something i was making for me and my dad. Also my daughter so Just having that combination of father in the the child together It just felt right. It was an intuitive choice. Really not not intellectual. Got it including the camus. Because if i remember correctly you moving on them you don't pull away like sometimes. Sometimes we might do as shot in regret. We just moved in very very very slowly. I think we did. That was long where we have afforded ourselves and undertake so we tried at a number of times But yeah we. We always knew that it needed to end with that slow. In that gets ultimately it's economy like you see the unity patch. You see it growing and then you end with the people. And i didn't want it to be. I didn't want to cut there. I wanted it to just delek. It's moving into the end. Aaron for you. It's an interesting experience in your movie because there is that why jot that kind of freezes and then come alive again and then there are the actual actors that we actually get to see. How did the end of the visual end of movie. All for you up. I to shackle scripts as working with a writer holdout that got to watch that. Yeah so i wanted the film to. I wanted to deal good. I wanted it and with some inspiration. So the reading of the names and Some people in the gallery cheering on of walking out in disgust Pendants all standing up one. Final act of defiance. I in the face of power Faden and i designed up a pullback in a nice high shot new we'd be freezing the image up the post trips that come on the scene but the the real final image isn't an image actually because maps a black and then here thousand people chant. The whole world is watching and then the music comes in and And we really did you. Brian also early on to actually credit your actors because many ways the last image is in fact them. I'll i'll tell you why did that. No i hadn't planned on doing that. but then i well. I was i daniel along with Seles they on their own on spec Behind my back. They wrote a song. You're my voice Which is nominated for an academy award for best song and I was told when. I was in the cutting room that music branch of the academy. It more when it's there is an original song. That song is over picture now. I couldn't put this song over the end of the fell. Because just didn't belong there. The score that danny hutton. Along there so the best. I could do in terms of putting it over picture was to was do the credits. The way they act. Which by the way. I always as an audience member i find it kind of nice. I realized it was a little like a love boat but feeding but i liked the left votes reading. I was lucky to get the call still nash. Long story see that was years ago. Am let's Hit you with pressure russia unit. We're gonna do. I think they would say office. I'm saying i. And i think it's we could do this morning. How do you handle it when you were feeling Austin with an occasional. Lots of the bill quite. I built quite paul. Whenever more pressure there is more again. The fruits niaz too much time too. See much turns aaron for you brush. How have i know what all i can do is do my best not inflicted on the pressure. I'm feeling to not inflict that i'm You know people in my personal life and people at work. I've given up on trying to not feel a pressure but like emerald. I may be the reason why. I'm not able to stop myself. Feeling pressure is that. I'm scared that. If i didn't feel pressure i wouldn't do any pressure. That's making me as making me right. That's making me well-spoken is what about for you whether you do with the pressure I always feel like. I just hold it all in and That lasts yeah. The last day after production i get sick or bad. Things happen suddenly. There's this release of that. And yeah it's a weird thing i'm sure so. Many directors know that that feeling once. That's gone Yeah it's it's weird that tension that you're holding for so long gets close enough glory. What about for you. What are you doing pressure depends on what type of pressure it is but some days is like louis man kolia. I'm very much has that movie. I feel nothing and a guess other days. A cry with anyone a an extra. The executive producer outcries anyone who listens to solve and solve all in margaret. Do that david what about for you. August inflicted on whoever standing thought. I just learning. I'm learning so many adult things here. Light how to do pressure learning the end of the movie should have either hope or uplift. Not and and and i'm hoping to apply all of this in the future. I invariably defaults to You know a-walking vivisection est. And so i try to stay away from other people. I'm particularly morose. Well as an. I want to thank you for spending time with all of us. You know showing how you do what you do and do so. Well is a real gift. So a half of the directors guild. Congratulations on obviously wonderful films. And your nominations. But also thank you. Thank you just spending time with us and we appreciate it so i'm going to say under pressure. This is the end of our meet the nominees. The outstanding directors for bill is very much. Everyone you thank you everyone. We hope you enjoy listening to. This exclusive discussion. You can watch the full video of the theatrical feature found symposium on our website at d g dot o. r. g. slash events past episodes of the director's cut are available. Wherever you listen to podcasts. And be sure to subscribe rate and review. We'd love to hear your feedback and you can help fellow film buffs find the show. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time. This podcast is produced by the directors. Guild of america. music is by dan wally.

lee isaac chung emerald fennell manque Jeremy kagan kassy olmo xilin aaron Aaron sorkin Jeff debray David fincher america richard david Zeiger Joe joe ron allen chicago cassie mike gentlest
Meet the Nominees Theatrical Feature Film Symposium 2021 - Part 2 Of 3 (Ep. 303)

The Director's Cut

47:38 min | Last month

Meet the Nominees Theatrical Feature Film Symposium 2021 - Part 2 Of 3 (Ep. 303)

"Hello and welcome back to the director's cut brought to you. By the directors guild of america in honor of the seventy third annual awards. We're bringing back. Our annual series of episodes devoted to our popular meet the nominees. Theatrical feature film symposia the event which celebrated its thirtieth anniversary. This year is a roundtable discussion with the directors nominated for the guild's award for outstanding direct royal achievement in theatrical feature film. This year's nominees include lee isaac chung director of minority emerald fennell. The director of promising young woman. David fincher the director of bank. Aaron sorkin the director of the trial of the chicago seven and close out the director of nomad land. East talented directors gathered on april ten to discuss the craft of directing and the making their phones with moderator jeremy kagan in front of a virtual audience. So please enjoy part. Two of our meet the nominees special and listened to the five nominees show their thoughts on actors tailoring the right approach to an actors working style the importance of establishing confidence in their key collaborators and readjusting performance to fit the film. Let's talk about Redirection and m. i'm gonna ask you first again. If you don't mind in terms of regnier you had to or when you wanted to give a note to your actor what would you do. How would you get that performance. Change if you need to do. I look i mean. Obviously you are absolutely wonderful actors in your movie So that may not have been a problem but have been adjustments and because that's something that we all face as directors How to adjust the performance. So comes what it is that we think is going to be the most honest and powerful renewed. You'll be able to deal with this. So for 'em if there any specifics that you remember where you needed to justin and how you did you get ready to sean gifford. Nate's eats carry ignites sentence. The navy's are ensures that s- it she needs vary olsen. It was just a major shame. Shame watch declined more. Honey whe are understated rennie. Usually i think if if you want something. It's not necessarily thing. It's usually awesome thing that you are awesome. What why'd you zip line secret is in us when we see cassius. Taking biden's jerry bridge was running mate. He wasn't he's josie is like diction run his do you gro portion robots in his size so all of the direction. That hundred catching cheers. Each lunch will ten g wall think was revenge. The more you believe when you can smell. It's the most remind you wall. Not what makes this seem. Not chilling just in your engine heartened me. It's always about what we think is as will all jay. We think we're here against what's happening is hey the hearer. Sneezy and even missions law the generally. How i night i'm shinning will work to say is just mesa will survive. Somebody needs to light as a bit. That happens in hostile this argument. You can do seem arching. Brian berg bond in his instinctively. I suicide are selling your soul mate. Just been just been need to do. He's during the middle of the season. He he's he's what her glory and she was in the engines march. That's the walking one the moments we let her. I would see where we left and we all turn and we all conduct average student. That smells you. Watch won't sexy. Which invented we need a with the things that we all are. It's it's running afterward enough to be than those. I'm seeing an actress yourself and having been directed and the question then becomes what's effective and of course everybody's different so you're gonna use different language different. Tensions i it depends on how you're going to do this but sometimes i if you're asking beep. Athletic result may be exaggerated and not. Have it so. I don't think that's what you're speaking to offer for the the thing. Is this what it's the eat the eat it. If i know. I want someone to be what that is made. Here you ten jerus- yes his jeremiah. About she's she's more you more. That is reminds you. Can you will heads repackages to us vision thing or not really wanted you to talk for a second because you want your actor to know that by what he or she's doing. It's going to have this result. Meaning it's going to be pathetic and repulsive ordinary. want the actor only commit to the idea. Which is you know romance. And so you know the awareness. Level of an actor endures fact. It's going to have on an audience versus the awareness of actor in the midst of a scene doing something as the character. they're playing that sort of warm. Exporting on senior earning shooting you know these people know that name you rightly offer you then looking at tax and then looking and they know they know more than the cartoons is trying to get back to the place of a whether you'll cheat says in a liege we we are now snus so you wait. Not why time is leading. Got that in this moment you will urge you think renault laying. You're not paying will it's about. I would never deliberately trying. The issue of plane happens in a couple of movies. senior the issue playing drunk. And how drunk. How did you and carry jet to. And obviously she's playing drago certain types but what was the either rehearsal process if you had one Or discussion process. That got you what you wanted there. Fussing again it's it's harsh unusual paying this cat worry. She's really nervous. Because i think it's things if the service they quickly great thing is is that is he served Only reason it made it meant that she didn't have impose on genieford. She is uncertain. Not kind of i think our he and she'd be a little bit mole that i think he's rookie but honestly agree. includes madison. And she's such about making sure she's red wine as usual each yes when you when she knocks down. Glass of wine Can you remember how that old because that is sort of an expression of because we have been there certain points. You do not down the glass of wine because you are back in the abbreviated. Can you talk about that process of seeing. Yes is very visual. The red spitting. Patchy i remember hearing hatch tight budget. And you know you just aren't do not wasting time. Great can i. It's just ocean for she. You nate's what we wish the contract you you all and the truth. I'm not sure you know. When being precise about this remember they seen with How albert molina seeing. What's done is the lawyer on. Who is asking forgiveness. Then that seems and i found it quite remarkable. And i'm interested if you remember if you needed to do anything with these two fine actors. What adjustments you may or may not including the physicality. There's a real physicality. And i don't know if that was written into the script that he's going to get on his and he's got almost put his editing laugh or whether that evolved in rehearsal but if you remember shirtless sir like allegorical senior navy and so you with offered and harry was like shoot of mike Getting i need you get the ads. And they both sets the conscience you know actual guests. It's slow of rocks. Seen a senior achi were who different sides of the same insane. I think he's frightened. Visited worthing moss. Again we do and she doesn't know wouldn't route. We felt in guessing awesome. She's disgusted mines votes but she needs to get right on aggies it it's persson aging not gonna get to give them sitting on a so earn. Would you ever hearst this seen before you started shooting and would you have also said literally in terms of technically odyssey showing of peace. They are together course crisis. Would you have literally said. I want you to do and again. We're delving into the specific if you can and if you remember just because we're learning absolutely very running us very your new conference in the this. It's a wild to make up the roots are. I think everyone's saint pages hawaii and that the comfort was crucial. Rather than sometimes you find that they use to do it and you always rework like are they trying to protect themselves or they right in your arms. But i knew this in this case i need. It's on needs hostage and say yes not was it seems and the physical action itself. Did you say to them. Our childhood opera washing to get our knees and your handle. I should specific. Were shouldn't tries to meets your knees. You need to be backing forgiveness in every. Did you say a word like because sometimes we're talking about this process we talk about know. Active verbs teachers teach that etc. Did you say something a lot to her pushing away or would you. What would what kind of language might use. I wouldn't call me the not scratching about the option usually. It's like the note in. He might not be the what he's going to take us close. he's getting from. He charges you do. I think that's the thing again. It's not like ways remembering the were you doing when you were yelling. Strange house and he's not. Well i do you know what will things you never wavered the rights yet. It's not quite. i'm not generally. Who goaded say i'd wanna remind someone. Why e scott the given circumstances of the scene in presence like that khloe talking about earlier david you also had to deal with character and characters on character being drunk and that issue or what did you the to Discover how did you discover the varying Oldman so we we talked about you. Know talk about his the degree of sloppiness. Obviously herman was you know. He had vomited at home before so he had. He's taken any abrasion and his comfort in it on two levels that Very few of us have have experienced before But you know the the the biggest thing was to make make sure that in all of this that the writer comes through right. Because as an abbreviated. As herman gets he's making a point and he is and so the you know you. You're you're adjusting the elocution so that you can make sure that you can still hear his reason for rising and getting everyone's attention it was a degree on. I mean you know we again showed a few takes so we would kind of dial it back in and i would say this is wonderful. What's happening over here a right in here. I can't hear a word you're saying. So and he will okay and that was that was really now. He's had some experience with this. And so he he knew to the you know he he could kind of be could modulate it and say this is half a bottle of vodka and it was aghast when you say for example that lasting which around the table where essentially tells the the the story. I don't know if that's his most excessive one but because of what you just said and because we you do do a lot of tanks have explained why would you pick sands is a style that gets almost into a habit of release in a way and the question. Here's were you able to do that with this. Or because he is us sort of excessive performance moment. Yeah i i didn't change it up. I didn't change it up for you. Know it and the end. We shot that scene for four days. And so there's probably thirty two cameras at ups and we probably did someone neighborhood of twelve to sixteen takes heard about. It was a good almost a a good part of a week. Show you know the in the end. You know and i think that the the aspect of the thing becomes you know front and center each really for my money. How quickly you get to the next take and how quickly you can dispense with thoughts using on what it is it. You've just seen so what. I really sort of resist is this idea of. I'm the actor now going in processing it. that's why. I don't like slates putting something on. Somebody's face and making noise. I just wanna go and so we will do a nine minute tape. And then shirt tucked in his tie and his herro becalmed in. He'll sit back down and we're rolling. You know eight seconds later and start all over again so that might view in that moment of his shirt and given him or what would you. If you did give him any adjustment retiring they it would be. It would be married. It would be it could be you know fifteen twenty things i could i. I might walk in and walk him back to his jaren sakes. The beginning. third is re- really good. Remember that you're saying this this is just between you and louis. You're saying this just as you know a stick for half. Don't look at charles for until you get to this. You're you're auditioning this idea. It's still not quite comfortable in it. This is more about louis. C. marian be in that moment have some you know i'll give him. I like doing this. I like to inundate actors with a lot of things to think about and then quickly go again so that they are not reeling It's just you know. I find that the things that when people recognize something that they go i would like to take ownership of that it sticks and the stuff that they go. Oh my god this os and tends to fall off the edge of the table but right when you're shooting Other times where you will not cut or or just keep the camera rolling him so digital. It is expensive shrink will you. Because of the repeated this just keep a row djing out there. There's a famous technique. That frank capra used to us and it was because he was only allowed to print who takes and So he used to do this thing where he would serve. Keep the cameras rolling and say okay start over and everybody would go and and this is the way that he could get for five. Take over the two that he was allowed to print and what he found was that it immediately hyped. The actors immediately like the energy level rose because nobody wanted to be caught out with their stuff not in the right pocket and going in and out of the door making sure ever coat over that there was this an energizing technique. It was it was. The panic ended up being kind of this in a weird way. The style of the thirties was like you know this. Like saline lock over the furniture. Let's you know circle one move along and it's interesting how that i don't find that it's that technique of artless gauguin keep it rolling. Everybody back to one. I don't find that to work usually for the first third because you do get these sort of elevated anxiety of people washing rushing through the door like you know. There's a fire in the next room but by the time you get to the this is all this is all psychology and all of your your your palate will change depending on the personality types that you're dealing with there are certain actors can here. Yeah yeah that was all. I'm really only interested in this. And they can focus on that and they and sometimes i mean it at emerald point. It's not about deceiving them. But it's about knowing what their threshold is or New thoughts on subtext or new thoughts on and you can inundate. People and people do go into vapor lock. And you don't want that. But i have found you know at a very useful not trick but a useful technique is if you really want an actor to focus on this one little moment in the tax and you draw their attention to it. You may be doing yourself a disservice because it may that may be the cause of their sort of created. The patient is that. There's too much. So i find often you can if you really really want to get the end right. Given twelve notes about the first three lines and once they get through those first three line. There's like this sort of release. And then you find that the middle and the end just you know are like off the of the duck and you just go right moving on and on and that you might khloe. Let me ask thank you. They go in terms of getting friends to do There a number of wonderful moments obviously Where she is listening and respond. And i'm interested in the conversations. You had with her about particular ones where you need you either quote rehearse them or how would you readjust if you wanted to do something different. You know. the. I had learned the worst. I know check in hard way that word really own. I still have nightmares about it. Because i think what is saying earlier the vile having you house as quick as you can get back into before they started and hung homes. You get in there and in the final check on cnn when there's law and then you you go man. I'd completing all aware you know that obviously the last time i did not know that. But it's just something i've learned so so so i guess as little as possible whether nowhere on the stage that you could keep the the actor in their body then then aware of things you know so i i know that a lot of people are asked david about the or for kirk. Yeah i really didn't do that because Because gar gary. Because there's something about yeah i not get into an always friend is that wanted nothing between her and the camera And when i did when we had ability to work that way my work is more than half eight down. Because she is president as she's listening and the county is very sharp and is very close to her face we're going to capture an amplified as much as more she us as possible and occasionally with fran rubel boggling in go sixty emmy or different options. Twenty five percents sixty seventy bath will do like crawl and will decide us. My favorite direction. You go to. Actually you say just eleven percent less things like trans looking at those photographs of her pass which we don't really know. What did you discuss with her in one. Did she know obviously who these people were that she's looking at. And what what you. You wanted her to respond to just by looking at the. I'm interested in something like that in terms of your if you needed to adjust performance or how you just got an compensation by. She's going to look at her pass. Not nothing much I again when you set up as a jewish and also a lot of that is i wear. She is was alive. I was coming today whereas the camera. I'll that to me is equally or mess adjusting the actor because audience feel that through a small frame and and i am a lot of my attention goes into these things and then again is very important for me to have a natural The roles are vaguely. I think my house has maybe a little tidy from his house. Because of not hyper. I love to do theatre just a lar- i will upset. Thyroid play just to learn. Holly rehearse hot work with actors in our way Since you get better but that's not nationally the life that so. I really spiked whether my not actors were provisional coming in having done there omar and down there is location and then just showing and then as it is saw. i'll make adjustments. I were there any murmurs in this room for that. You remember where it quote was so off and you did have to make an adjustment definitely a few times but then you you sort of go in there and you just try try something. Hopefully i'm really interested to try. Something healthy enjoy. What else you got. The number version rackers ensure less just less again a matching while a matching the two different school at someone is being themselves and then someone come front of women's and less less album nothing. Nothing on and and see how that is and occasional nothing. But as i one hundred percent sure until a new turning all the time when you had david and and fran working together now. These are two very very experienced actors and yet you want the style of their performance equal the style of all of your non professionals what for example their scenes. What did you three talk about or discuss or do in order to get that similar reality. This man has knew we had to do extra work units match So we would. Occasionally i would tell them to service square bows or i do at the end by budget. Get into just are just talking about stuff. I don't even tell them what it is. Someone say something and then they just started talking occasion and rolls you know. Occasion aligning star. It does help. You need help each other out in that way. You know when the trust is built funding and you know the goal is to become nationalist. Eggen doesn't see all things are to rid because of the now profession do. The effort is made was that and they. They vote each other as they tried to get each other. They're not did they ever sort of talk about. I don't know if i can do that. or was that ever a i see for fran. It wasn't but i'm just curious for david. Did he ever say wait a minute. Where do you want to hear terms of the performance. I'm gonna give. Or what kind of conversation did you have with with you in on that. Neither of them ever said i the is really about. I think he's of lot less so you can do less. Sometimes you might not be able to do more but do less and occasionally i mean david weekly has his look for longer because so much for personal life is in this film and she would actually set have said. There's a lot more. Oh my personal year. You don't even know that. I had to you know that's that's in there. She gives to the film And and i think for me in harsh find that on that allen's to make sure she's not too vulnerable spoke because when we have learned so much from brand about an. I really have learning. This is that for an actors that they they do need some security. They they didn't is not like professional. Choose to share my life with you. You know they the reason why they wanna put on the costume. Does that mean. Sometimes they don't want sheridan on screen. And i am fully expecting them to because i've only worked with the other way so i have to learn how to make the profession. Act waiting to give me what i want to certain but also knowing that i can trust them to not have to open themselves on that the same or hormones that trust i still i am building. 'cause i got you. That's not always true. Isaac renew readjusting particularly dealing with the kids. Thank you what what. And how would you And get before saw that example. Obviously with the speech gerrad out in terms of other examples. Where if you need to readjust what you would do. And maybe both with adults and the kids but particularly with the kids because i think that remarkable woman says you got so how would you just then said it really depended scene by scene so each scene had a different approach in different strategy. I mean there were moments. I think it's kind of similar to what khloe sang. Because they are actors these kids So a lotta times with them. I'm just looking for the most authentic Harder than selves. That they can bring within any given moment For instance one of the key scenes them reacting to the parents fighting And i i noticed that they're throwing paper airplanes in that scene so they started to have a really good time with it. Because you know kids starring paper plans. They're going to start to smile. And that was kind of the the reaction shots And i remember for that one. I i did have to be very stern and start to put on a whole different face than That was on a more intimidating level. I guess and So so there are moments that i have to create that atmosphere That makes me sound like it's higher. I mean other motives. That aren't like that you know if it's moments of fun. We try to make sure that the said is bond and that They're going to have a good time in a certain moment So i felt like that. Environmental element was really important But are also a lot of where these kids were just the nominal without much direction at all in which they knew what they needed to do. So i don't wanna make it seem like it's all smoke and mirrors and that. I'm just checking on all time But you know they really talented kids With the adults. It's it's more or less everybody has said it already. It's everybody is different and I find the rehearsal process to important. How did you learn how to use a rehearsal process I try not to. I'd try to make sure it's hawk throughout it. So that i create some kind of i don't let them get into the scenes that part of it. They're still working it out mentally that. That's what i to do in side trying to make a little bit You know. I don't get it and let them do it. I just say yes. Okay okay. I talk through it so that i can try to preserve. The cameras are rolling. First time that you're doing it and i noticed. Each actor has very different thing. That helps them. If i need to make adjustments often. It's right in there there. There's not much in an adjustment to be made and it might be just a technical thing. I tried to let them know quickly. It's only technical issue that we need to resolve. And i tried to let them know so that they They can stay within the comfort and confidence of what they've done but if something needs to be adjusted it's really according to then like war for union jong the who plays the grandmother. She doesn't like to talk about motivations and she doesn't like the talk about psychology and all that so just say you know. Are you asking me to just quieter okay. Just tell me to be quieter. And she'll do it. She's really great at it and then other they'll be other accuracy. Wanna go into the reasoning. Like what is the reason why i'm being client. You know what so. I i just try to meet them where they are in things. Seems like the. I'm gonna move on a little bit too camera but it but in the scene where there's a fight between literally you feel one of the bites between the husband wife And in back your camera Goes back and forth between the two of them. The performance moment of getting those two actress to be where you wanted them to be a deal. Remember any adjustments that you made with them to in that particular She doubt that one wasn't too much too. I mean we. I remember having to make sure that the set is completely focused for that day and i could see how much preparation the actors were doing with without one so even like final checks and all that stuff we we definitely pared down as much as possible and made sure to clear this. Set more with that scene just to give them the concentration. I don't remember too many adjustments with that scene in itself. It was really with the kids that the to adults. I was afraid that they're gonna lose their voices. Because i told them this is a scene in which you're really not holding anything back so i knew we couldn't do too many tanks and they. They lost their voices with saying. Let me ask you one more thing that i want to talk about camera. The before news shown on grandma shot Do you remember what you said. she says. Okay so that one was great because We all set it up. And i wasn't talking to weijia much about that scene but right before the cameras roll and i just went up to her and i said i just need something mysterious and we we shot it and issue did the exact look everything just as you see it and then as soon as i said caught just turned to me and said mysterious enough for you could off at what amazon earlier about you know the thinking about what's going on. Then she ever after urge ever asked her what are you. Do you ever find out Found out i mean. We talked about this a little bit she. She only asked me once. Like do you want me to cry. And in it. And i said i don't. I don't think. I think that would be too much. And so that was the only note we had during the script. Phase is during the strip pains me kind of talked about different moments so she had notes on that. I knew she was preparing for it. Just added that one note like you know what's interesting though because if you in that scene her her eyes are wet by the time you cut yourself so girly. She didn't take your direction. She thing she didn't ever let it come down which i know that that not not what she wanted and i got what i want so great movie. I want to talk a little bit about camera with you. wonderful shot where it's pretty much in introducing all the characters in the courtroom. It's almost goes a one hundred and eighty degrees. I think it starts voronin schultz and then moves through the table to sort of reveal all all of your defendants and i'm interested because i know that 'cause you spoken to this about the learning how to figure out shoot a camera or cameras Sort of an action scene but sending something like that up view remember. Was this something that you preconceived something that you talk about. How you working with camera like that. Shot specifically yeah. That's shots civically It's being introduced the courtroom. I and its participants and i. I had staged most of it on a piece of paper and stage a little bit more of it When we got into the courtroom on the day Basically i wanted. I wanted to see how long i could do a continuous shot so it was a matter of starting on. Jc mackenzie was playing joseph or levitz. Boss he's sitting to everybody's waiting for trial started buddies waiting for now the rise i he leaves the frame revealing a joseph gordon levitt stance off from there. The camera is able to move to fred. hampton is coming down or move along that defendants You know i decided to mama where okay we can her release from this shot a and move on but that was choreographed. I just wanted to the camera. But i i just wanted to address giving adjustments actors because i was had a very bad experience That that i try to learn. And i wasn't the direct. I written the foul us. Worked with another director were in rehearsal and the director had called the meeting. He wanted to meet with an actor Up before the mornings were hustle. And he wanted me there and first of all it was already a powder keg that was set to of slow at some point because this actor rookie czar set of circumstances was aware that he was not my first choice for the russell into that. How to wary of and he had this meeting. The director said what he wanted to say that turned to me Anisette aaron wanna add something. And so i just want to add some wanted to add something very simple. I in so many roles. Confidence is incredibly important. The actor being confident being really own the crown Under their feet is incredibly. Or and so i was as it was with this role and what i said. Was this size of movie star. I think what the actor hurt he say was i wish we had a movie scarface and the actor tore up a rehearsal room literally whole things wall and it was nightmares and i never won another experience where i or i lose the actor on want anyone locking themselves in your trailer or are you just kind of closing themselves off on the set because it trying to get them confidence taking away all their competence. So i'm i'm careful about Away i got you say erin that when you're saying that that the note is more encouraging if it's even if you want some chains as distinguished from critical i'm using words i would say first of all the more specific than the better second have to make sure that you're not asking the act the do something that they can't That you're not asking them to speak a foreign language. These funnier is a back Agreement so it's again you want to be giving them confidence and if you give them something specific you'll also learn actors all different right. They all need a different thing And you learn a with different actress. Here's what you said this martin. Here's what you said it. This in this may also refer to both both performance as well as a camera. There's a night sequence. Where i think you move past abby And then pick up a tom. Renney as they're they're walking in track back with it and it's a it's a big night setup a because you've got a lot of people do remember and this is also. I think that as i said find abby then discovers. Tom renney moves back back. Would you remember setting up because that also whites all Did that one of all if you remember Sorry i was saying that those seen at seeing that you're describing those were exciting nights out. We we shot row seats in chicago. In grant arc on michigan avenue Where mice and i remember. Choreographing them In choreographing the camera moves always in concert with a pop minority and using. I hate to be glib about but Because there was so much tear gas use tear gas use in chicago in one thousand nine hundred. Sixty eight lucky. Break me us. We got us a lot of smoke. Which looks nice when you shoot light through it And we got to use a few hundred extras the play thousands of all. Because i could. I could mask things with tear. Gas is often overlooked. Does something the school it makes. It makes it a lotta easier. I mean you say that. Now david but how i asked. Ask your my. We hope you enjoyed listening to part. Two of this exclusive discussion. You can watch the full video. Theatrical feature films symposium on our website at d. g. a. dot o. r. g. slash. That's and be sure to download next week's episode for our five theatrical feature film nominees while conclude their conversation past episodes of the director's cut are available. Wherever you listen to podcasts and be sure to subscribe rate and review we'd love to hear your feedback and you can help follow film buffs. Find the show. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time. This podcast is pretty spot. The directors guild of america music is by dan wally.

lee isaac chung emerald fennell jeremy kagan sean gifford jerry bridge Brian berg albert molina achi khloe herro herman navy C. marian Aaron sorkin david David fincher emerald point cassius rennie drago
Meet the Nominees Theatrical Feature Film Symposium 2021 - Part 1 of 3 (Ep. 302)

The Director's Cut

52:07 min | Last month

Meet the Nominees Theatrical Feature Film Symposium 2021 - Part 1 of 3 (Ep. 302)

"Hello and welcome back to the director's cut brought to you. By the directors guild america in honor of the seventy third annual digi awards were bringing back our annual series of episodes devoted to our popular meet the nominees theatrical feature films symposium event which celebrated its thirtieth anniversary. This year is a roundtable discussion with the directors nominated for the award for outstanding direct toyo achievement and theatrical feature film. This year's nominees include lee isaac chung the director of monari emerald fennell the director promising young woman david fincher to director of mink. Aaron sorkin the director of the trial of the chicago. Seven and chloe zhao director of nomad. Land these talented directors gathered on april ten to discuss the craft of directing and the making of their films with moderate jeremy kagan in front of virtual audience. So please enjoy part. One of our meet the nominees special and listened to the five nominees. Show the advice. They've gotten from other directors how they prepare for the next down shoot and where they like to position themselves on set. It is so great to have all five of you here at the same time. I don't know if you what i just said. But if we were in the theater at this moment being a knowledge by a standing ovation of well over a seven eight hundred people Because of the mazing work you've done so thank you for sharing. A this conversation we're about to have is with. Your peers is with directors. This is with The directory all team and they're most interested in learning about how you do but you do And just to get started on your so experienced now all of you now having done so many of these video interview that you may be zoomed out Doing them thinking. On the stage of years ago steven spielberg was asking for vice of from for winco flee after his first or second group and for india us said. You know you're going to be asked lots of questions about your movie. And it's you're going to get the same question over and over again and you're going to get so bored so what i suggest. This is my advice. You tell lies makeup stories. That's what you should do or yourself. The onstage happened to be reverted benin e who is also fully a friend and he was shocked and he turned to steven but always said to me. You always have to tell the truth. And now i know he was lying. We're going to deal with what truths all about the same impact you go. I'd like to start the conversation advice that you've gotten other directors what you learn from other directors and m. star because you seem and worked with many directors ending advice particularly with your future. I vice i vote was from from usage always do china china which best gender female friends of mine said he wears the shows. She said said you'll find it. You it will or will make me. Your woman will any things. We'll find us time. He does a lot of all you show and she. She realized students. News and harbaugh's ajay. People were there. They were being helpful. actually the healthfulness is honest. Slowing things out an option on speech bads she sets up now on nobody off so you show. And she's the first week roma she would say it from here on somebody would go. That was amazing. And you seem to be a Work with many years. Have you seen things that you would have said boy. That's something i'll never do. Or that's something i wanted. Earth it's hassle. Records is nice. I was longer whilst being brightens butts. Some sir gino writing for me that got. You may scares a little bit. We'll we'll wait for the fear. David for you ever been any advice from another director that taken from another director. I know you've learned from hitchcock front. I'm interested in how you would respond to this I i actually had an interesting piece of advice. Once from a marker sese who who paraphrasing has a huge talking about He was talking. We were talking about style and he said something along the lines of Remember the things that you do poorly are as much a part of your style. Is the thing that you do well. And and that's a great thing because otherwise everybody's everyone's movies with look like citizen kane. Everyone would be trying to do that. And and it's a little bit you know when you try to do something like that and you fail in the inimitable way that you will fail. It's it's kind of yours signature. You know and and i think find the process over time is trying to mitigate against the stuff that you want to take out of your of your work and trying to punish so That's what i liked that last but a lot erin You had many directors work for you and you work for many directors. What advice have you been given That you remember or learn from the directors at the time this or years ago And now i'm in the middle of direct her but it was a little over ten years ago that i was asked to direct i i. I'd written a week like had of the studio but it be a good idea. I've iraq war and I i went around when i spoke to a number of writers earned writer directors of that. I've meyer including jim bras. And they were very saying. i know. You can't do this ready to do this. So i was going to go ahead and do that but i just made one suggested. I said we just ended venture passes and pass and then click three hours later. I got an email david saying. Hey aaron it's david. I'm the director social network. You come over. So i would say i got lucky from records. I've had changed to work with. Great reference. Like david like mike nichols on three different television series on shawny. I and you have to really not be paying attention to not learn a little bit on the other you know trying to learn from dave ventures like trying to watch tiger woods and then learn golf from him. It's not gonna work the same golf clubs here So you know what i've learned surround yourself with very talented people The fashion designer costume designer. All all our has it well but great athletes great actress in the film. Even chance do their best Try to be clear and hope that the screenplay is enough that everybody can understand what their role is Putting honesty aaron did any of these directors including david. Warn you or something that you is that you know. I think that you want might wanna boy as a director. David was extremely generous with that. We certainly talked a lot in the pre production period knowing the working on the script. And so i can't remember him telling me anything to do or you avoi- But i will tell you that. As a matter of fact the very first time i was ten years ago it was on social network because on the on the last of which was saturday live there. Were three very easy things. Relatively easy things that we had to get on that we had gotten the second one and david called trailer. I e showed me some footage of that he puts together which looks fantastic and then he said. Let me tell you what's going to happen now. Last thing to get again it was an easy shot. That doesn't even last. But he said. Let me tell you what's happened now. I'm gonna car leak. And you're gonna direct while i laughed. I was sure that he was hitting signal on serious. Get my car And do this. I still thought he was headed but suddenly people were coming up to me off to approve. Wardrobe arrived cheap. Beards shot and sure enough. They miss car and now a big part of that may have been that. David is not comfortable with the sentimentality. Saying a lot of can at least some small part was david wanting to understand. This isn't like when the pilot palsy rene says you're flying the plane. Now that got off the law for the rwandan chart take it was perfect on. Let's cut that's great check. Negate the ad said there is no way. I can send david one more. Let's walk me to say i don't know. I think we could sewer three or four just to not get trouble. It was a moment that really matters that even if it was to get out of saying i'd ask you. What is like to be directed by david since you were directed by him in social network. We're going to save that. For second limited is the same ration. advice from other directors. Or something that you learn from the director's One that stands out to me. I got to know tho- maker in korea master or make an mvp song and he directed burning And i remember. I was talking to him about unity. We're talking about production designed and she just told me as a general rule. Don't don't aim for perfection donating for perfection. The aim for human like aim for the most human thing and he said that's that that's something that needs to be clear in all the production design but it's also something to keep in mind for the film aiming for protecting perfection is good but the priority is always try to make an audible And that that always stayed with me throughout production of this though but defining what that means though that distinction that you're making between sort of like perfection and human can you w debra good from the just given well we were talking about. How a lot of things with with equals just unpredictable. And it can't seem to designed to can't seem like someone from top down has designed that there's something from inside coming out from from below. I i liked that advice. I like that idea of something surprising or something. That is counterintuitive kind of coming from from the characters in the film. That makes thank you. How about the usual okla. What was a any vice that you ever got from another director or learn from other directors. Yeah well are two things. One of these was Recently it was their writings. Ron exact someone that's me You don't have to be loud when you know you're in charge l. Really really hard for me on this but just again you know amazon. You knew you touch up a little being someone coming into arena. Defense of the time It was really helpful to me. You know you're in charge. You don't have to even know you because you are. that's eight auto bone stress and advert the other thing is just the being around burner or saw who had been a mentor to me and you know go into october with within and watching how he explains real sash for example does not we get it on the street with this precision thought details that he knows about how fei she's grown what ten per shoved bromwich river and remember with. He said you watch someone who's an expert on birds and learn law filmmaking. There's something about that obsession about this. I used to feel bad on saturday. Just that's all i care about. I think about us guilty by hearing on this. Pay fast low lying good. thanks to spend time bursts. That's that's a piece of advice in an an an a real. What i'd like to ask all of you is what your homework is the day or a night. Shoot of the night for what your homework is that you do the night before you're going onto the whatever that next day or next night shoot is and what's the first thing you do when you go on the set and chloe. I'm going to start with you so we're moving. Because you shot over a five-month period you were up so many different kinds of locations. The entire style of your film has this feel of discovery as distinguished from. It's already down here on acre and were now realizing that of so. I suspect that your homework ask different than another kind of fill. Or maybe what's the same. What's all of you. What's the homework you do the night before. And what's the first thing you do when you walk onto a set the ninety four for negras. How's the editing and awesome writing. So i had to wash dailies and a half to write knowing thing have gotten out. I did this thing. What else will. I receive neo. Why change a man. I'm sure everyone does that. But for is a process and we ride the next morning. I tried to get into the producers by six. Am so they can actually change things on the day. Job is apologizing for sending everything apologize. I just users and eighty everyone in go find findings among us breakfast and who actually are the first people that you do. Talk to and meet with when you walk in many be. And what will that conversation. If that's the first person that you engage with when you walk what would that conversation. Be abou- well. Today was a huge part of holland. Signed the gay. I e i know that most of the time he have a plan to know the longer you don't know whether also much reliable conversation you don't know maybe someday certain personalities in showing up for the is is about readjusting like resetting bryan new and then sure and morning. I mean aunt gonna use a specific example. That's the first person you say you often talk to. There's a very long tracking shot with francis dorm through one of the caps. And and it's it's a wonderful sort of journey that we take with her past. The campers pass people in in different groups And would that be an example where you will walk onto the sat not having talked about it and figure that out or would that have been one that you would have talked about and thought about before the goal is for you to feel like that. We never talked about and sharna announced shah as fine moss. Her head revient all was brought age. Exactly needed to be every person's feud kneeling to do and we can do take every night because the sun has to be just as exacts fall so not blow up. This guy is also and saying you have to. We should wash on. So there's only can do so. That's the opposite of everything. I just said past where you want it to feel like the magic trick Leading to get to that very moment and other situations that would be normal. Is you would walk onto. Let's let's say if you're in the amazon location Would you be walking onto the set and talking to your camera. Person saying these are the kind of shots. I'm feeling from the work that you do the night before thinking about how you're gonna shoot each other. There is one of those we have to follow certain facility rules so we couldn't just do what we wanted in their loss. Age action scenes out of my input. I realized by the bid all the visual visual science. Just don't rob shots later on and you. He knew me and to shoot outs know that. I you know the eating of loneliness in having a person factory. I trust him games again. Shots and i trust friend. He was really b in the mall and in their working and give us something. She's earning actions and not so much as on in the end. Is it for you What's the homework that you would do before the next day. Shoot and what's the first thing you do when you walk onto a set Thinking about that don't remember too much that systematic about my process with that. I tried to catch up on decision making for the art department and costume or wardrobe and and then just prepare the the next day. Like i definitely sit down with call sheet and really figure out how we're going to map out the day between me and the d So usually in the morning. I do grab a quick coughing breakfast. And i go. And sit with my gpa and we just talked through what we're going to chat. We didn't have much time. We had about We didn't go into overtime any day. And we shot for like twenty five days and with with allen our youngest actor we could only have him on set for six hours because of the travel. Time hotel location So every scene when you only have x number of shots or setup so we can do so That was kind of the challenge of this one where we had to strategize like what. Where do we devote the most time. And and all those things. So i found that conversation with lockie. Rdp incredibly helpful on just to be on the same page that we don't have to waste time doing that throughout the day would you would you. Then be with him. If he's the first person you're speaking to after after having the coffee and maybe the exile we had you re talking about shot lists or the intention of of what the number was it up shots that you needed to get within this particular day. What would i hope it would be a combination of both but a lot of it was the shot liz talking through the shot the setups in and things like that that we would need got and about you aaron when when you do the homework before the next shoot now. I know you had two different kinds. I'm sure when you were doing the action sequences. I know this is newer for you. So that's got a been a real meal complex homework way before you actually did. But it's it s seeing. That was one of his trial scenes. What's your homework before a that evening. And then when you walk into set. What's the first thing you did the night before an action scene on chicago seven I would google had affect your on debt. Find anything there. But what. I what i do the night before. Is i reread the scene and i'll i'll write to the actors. I'll send an email to the principal actress in the just talking to them about one or two general things that report important to me that they keep in mind and usually it's something along the lines keep it simple The writing in scene Is is gonna start to flirt with. Melodrama it's kind of walk right up melodrama and introduce itself and you have to not lean into that fight against that and then just some surely. You're going to be great doing great than of just have fun. There are probably maybe one or two shots That are i wanna make sure i get that are now. We need to understand that we are inside. This person has gotta get this To make sure a living coverage. We've got a a make sure of that. And then when i get i in the morning. Yeah the first person you're talking to I d i g is there. We're talking about the c. I. and Talk about the master And how we're going to move in and talk about those shots that down that that. I want to make sure that i get that. Usually and 'em how about for you What's the homework do the night. Before and What's the first thing you do when you get on the set own sach. Well gee when. I get that i own eat. Something cheese joust find new in the game temperature was initial. Part is you. I might not getting me guessing the sense of how everyone's Full than being like we got another. It's like let's do it. Where do where am where do you put yourself when you're onset You know we're all video. You build the world of monitors world of actually getting right next to the van so that you can be with the actors and everything else is behind you. Where where are you When you are working on set. I monitor my halbert which need mine mind. Man wrecks whiteley inch their nature. Generally be in the action sign on our health. Our wants to be. I needs looking. I'm seeing his. I think i can very easily by will mean the room. Wanna keep myself away and when you want to give a note to your actors into your behind the monitor. The monitors is close to the camera wherever you put them. What's your process in in the shops or a fair enough. But i didn't like that idea that belligerents here i wouldn't i would never shower. Might new is eight on gauging you know. And and they need this innis than as you have the voice of god's crying he wants to go in like you know how might compensation david for you on. Where are you in relationship to monitors and when you wanna give notes your actors. What's your process Well i unfortunately am crippled in hamstrung by this idea of I used to cameras Almost all the time. Because i i liked the plan for things that i need to have real tight continuity matches and so i will almost invariably. It's a rats to get from monitors to to the cast and so i will fight my way through the first couple of times you know. Usually they clear space for me. You know grumbling inge spaghetti. But i i think that you my personal taste is that i wanna see. The audience is seeing I'm all for. And i think that there are times when when when you and i don't see a lot of warner brothers costs apps but when you're she something that's that intimate kind of tuck in by the box to see to kinda get a feel as to what what's being presented for the most part. I want to see it through through the way the audience is going to see. Which is you know in in the beginning. Why resented the whole idea that digital cameras had to have a rotating mirror the could see the light falling on the actors but no one else. Could you know everybody. Everybody else was stuck with at ten. Eighty p monitor. So i i. I like very much. I worked through camera. I almost. I mean i'll watch rehearsal are watch a number of rehearsals without having monitors up but i From the time we sat a master or master alternate master. The rest of the day is working through the camera. Because that's the only thing that matters and and when you do you wanna give an adjustment you will squeeze yourself through those two cameras on. Well i tend to you know. I don't know if you know this industry. A lot of takes. And i am and i tend to like the idea of giving up dating actors with notes and giving them you know this can make people the first couple of times very very uncomfortable that you just gave me twelve notes and it's a nine minute take and we're starting from the beginning again. At what am i supposed to do. And i'm a my attitude is. You're supposed to stuff that you can respond to. You're supposed to respond and the rest any anything that goes in one ear and out the other. Don't sweat like i'm gonna give you twelve or fifteen things and the stuff that sticks the stuff that you're going to relate to and we're just trying we're not. There's no expectation that the next one is the one i wanna. I wanna create an environment. Where listen we've talked about it for three weeks in rehearsals we've rehearsed it for an hour half in the morning once we lock in on what it is than. I just want that. I mean you know doesn't have to be you know. Meet mr lincoln. But it has to be repeatable to to to the extent that i enj- coverage and and my process is is not you know john houston used to shoot. You know the first six lines in the master and the last seven lines in the master and then go in for coverage. And i do. I will shoot a master until i feel. I could play the entire scene in the master. And then i will shoot an over Feel like play the entire senior over. And then i will shoot the singles and i will go at that and it's not to you know not to grind people into dust. It's simply to say Said there you take the temperature of of the everybody involved in that morning and you're sort of adjusting the sliders. I tend to be like. I wanna be sensitive. What people are going through. But i want you to leave that door. And then i want you to concentrate on exactly what it is that we have to do so that i can if if need be cut the scene from a perspective that maybe wasn't the one that i had been thinking about for the case this movie thirty thirty years. Your thank you for that perspective of shooting the whole scene and getting right in whatever angle that he is rather than as you were saying. Insult getting the concepts. Reminding the wide shot getting out of it. What about for you. where are you on. Your shooting is is really interesting raw. They're just saying. Even though i come at a very different Meh like was the most earnest. Yeah that's the difference. Even though people will think more because our professional actors usually ride there was washington. I wish i used to remind his is not gonna directed by larry much worst eighties at night but that is what i saw. I hats is commonly along a lot of times. We have to summarize there. I can only do one take actually very camera too. Many times are professional. Less care about not professional actors are more comfortable is right. I need to do this. You don't to know why you. I just visit my in my hat on reading survival. I've never going to be back in this location where these people sunday so i need exactly what i needed in the tape and number today. Just do one smile for me while log here there to patch together and again is just so good international reactions for no reason. Why and so later on. I can put together and so it's still actually very amro. Take whatever meat later mendez position. Are you next to your camera operator or three sixty. You don't have a place you could sit down wash so i would. I would have something with me the whole time so i could your hide behind the car or a walk behind. The camera is not ideal because you still have the scene. You're not making the best judgment whether we capture is re audiences watching it so he can try to squad. I guess he's very tiny spaces flexible so you can hide in a lot of places. And that's what. I find a position that is still on but never really had mongers small. Got us your how your you're carrying clam shell and moving as close to your people are getting out of the way where you're going to move. You can wear again. That unit -dorsements google glass when you when you want to give the justice. We're going to talk about this a further. But since you're what you're there How you operating with you then then chef ford in front of the lens on how how you. Give me your adjustments to your actors. This phone is make sure. I shout if the some is lots of sack and i'm burto al show is an apologist later. And then or interns they on a magical or anything else Everything is forgiven and then other times obviously was both perversion. Author is thou clearing the outside and then just whip this year's our hands. Gosh i'm going to stick with you for another question. Which is a little more ahead of ourselves which is one. Want to give adjustment to an actor. What you do and i want to hear from all of you. How you if you want to change something on set what you do to that that change. But i'm really interested in climbing while we're talking here when you're talking to your actors particularly to your non actors and you want to do something different. What's your process here. Because i know some pieces. I the interview with with that Or some people telling stories. Bob i talk about some of these people. Were really if you were making a documentary these might be. They would say but the relationships with learned the may and with with swanky. I mean there. There's a real performances here. So i'm curious if you wanna abba change i'm just inside get sick and You know how did you if you want to do. Just what would you be saying. I would you do that. Particularly with your actors. I wanna take cartons for this great performances. That is really not. I've not going there while. I actually needs to be more hough. I'll never do that this really. I've heard those beaches on witten in the rights arms. Or it's large and indigenously to would never onset this. They're not cast to work for you to have the ability to do that. Kind of of require notches to do So not so much of anything is about trying to wait until comfortable. And these there are certain lines that i feel interesting discussions about rioting with the other and they just need to really emotional. Got for example in that moment. When she searched to get sick she holds her head. That's a performance. I i assume that that that was not what was happening to her. But that's what you wanted to happen to the character About well you as a living hurt interpreter. You museum sometime. There's like she. I think she was in the prairie museum in yana so she does a historic lives. Interpretation is jewish. You tend to be wife relations andrea all day long. So i think she's got that natural. I just saw her slain her. He did and looks pretty. I love i have worked with. I feel there is that we come crop in more and we not vision actors of times they. You can't the right road right or them and you jobs half gallon. You'd really is impossible to have. Has a number vision. As an to a whole variety offers are hogan's and is now the best leads. Ease them or or you time and when you talk to them in the process of one more question for you here as you're meeting them like finding out that's my action was quote a performer. Or knowing what. Bob did When you're meeting these people i i. I'm in casting. What is your process of conversation with them so that you know you can trust them to when you're onset be who they are when you're just meeting them is a camera enrolls right away with the permission just a cell phone and just to see their okay now. Looking at the camera now island not version can just eat thousand violence. That is more of a holiday inn. Trust me on his wall getting passed on tall of expect me to do about your lifestyle struggles. Their politics is to get past all and yet still. I was the first i get to that point and then solidifies start telling you about who they are and then finding that essence what is about them a media mama go coast person than everyone else lender stand a little from on their bills that charissa and actually changed the art of errands so that molin can be interesting. What percentage of the people that you would be in conversation with. Do you think you would not use. I mean when you meet ten people of which one is going to be slack year. Linda main yeah got it. So there really is quote a casting process of the non actor to get out independent and present. They can be with you. That's my phrase different in the process of finding profession. Ought lifer you've got opposition. He's just looking crass he and the one. If you were to say the one skill that you really do want to have with any of your non-professional what would that skill the rain to describe it he and thereby present be season on lions. Electrical is super important for now. Professional actors has either being translate into physical like china actors. They just need to get call which isn't feel own and not try to you. Her tended not so call right now issue just present the whole time because that the work we do in those nominee is to try to maybe risk for some new fresh. You save them He's a resin used. Every time on the to look at cameron look at me. I won't be as independent workers it so presence. Thank you for that. is it for you. Where do you position yourself on the set loose spends on normally. I do have a handheld monitor as well. I think i'm often hiding like claudia's bull too. I do notice. I try to be next to the camera so that i can just tear up when i want to or when i need to because sometimes i find that that presence is necessary but It depends on also the actors in the scene. If there if the little boy david. Or noel noel allen often i like to be closer to them out of frame is sometimes. I wanna whisper something that they might say while we're rolling And i've already told them you know. Don't react to me whispering something to you. Just just repeat it sometime. That'd be off frame just ready to say something to end that. I'd have my monitor. They're trying to see what i'm getting as an audience member speaking whispering. There's a moment when When david the little boy is meeting the grandma and he whispers something into his mother's ear. She pulls him hats a misprint. It a second time. We never find out what that whisper is jessica because of early part of the relationship but do you remember How you save with him in in talking to him and told him well she. The mother ends up repeating over. He said You don't look like a real grandma or something like that. I so she. He does whisper that like he does whisper that into her ear. A one one of the elements that i stayed with that one though is that we. We didn't tell him that. Union john the the veteran korean actress that she's going to put that Chess not in her mouth and then hand it to him. And i just. I just told him in this scene. Your grandma's gonna give you something to eat and just eat it. That's that's how this is going to end. But she put it in her mouth and gave it to him and then him backing away. That was a real reaction. I'm ed stuff like that. That a kid would honestly respond to i. Yeah that that was a moment that really pleased name million looking at that moment. I thought you must've said to him. This i'm sort of passively. This i thought you must have said to him when she offers a staint pull away. Which isn't what he does. So i thought you directed in fact if you just the opposite direction you. I'm not gonna take this rocky lighting right there. I know you fits with the character like. He's as good korean boy. He's been a he's got to do the right thing to do it. But pursuing one more level if you then wanted to do quote take to this. What would you do you. You may not williams. Said i've got it. I said i got it without when i remember. is it take to. We would have just tried to do it over again. But i i know for a fact we would have lost the magic of it. And that's why we all were keeping quiet evolve over bus do and that's all we also gave him the coverage we made sure to cover him with that kind of it's a medium shot i think and then we did like a master. Where where do you position yourself. And you want to give up whatever adjustments. What's your process. The monitor Some of the hell monitors closer every once in a while an actor wants the Across the awas align rated us on so opposite for me. So i'll bear as far as giving notes earth while i try not to do it so public and i want to feel like they're they're being is wrong really mike now every use watch responded some helper crowded but i learned something that is actor. I've worked with all along. Jap now how much your little. You're your from the director shooting or was she in rehearsal. I wore warring as much as you want. Say whatever wants to start treating say five. Were lots on so i try to get necklace in the point where all i say is a little hotter pulgar a little here. Take time there. The this beckham's inner seem like thank you That's actually quite by inner. Seen like of the argument between tom hayden and consular where there's a lot of overlapping and intensity. How are you speaking to those actors. At that particular moment where in fact it is adding of the dialogue with you in that scene. You remember what you said. They're more sure what to great actors right. It's mark rylance and eddie redmayne. No acting lessons and who act looking forward to this scene are for months so in seem like that again. It's it's gonna be a lot of technical musical stock. I i write a lot of Interruptions whether a character is interrupting themselves with another thought whether they're being interrupted by someone else. And i need to constantly remind. The actress did not anticipate of being interrupted. I really liked. The sound of two are more people speaking at once a and so where in the script. The line will be interrupted with a dash dash. I'll i'll tell them what the rest of that sentence was going to be. Make sure that that they put the burden on the other actor. Make them stop you from talking. Don't stop because stripped soldiers stop and similarly yorker. Who's doing the interrupting interrupt them. As soon as you hear the word that is making you say that didn't happen making you are you. Don't wait for the moment in the strip. So with eddie and And mark it was that they had asked me to write the whole thing right because we keep cutting away to To the early moments of the riots. And how a suddenly slowed eat. Cutting away to abbey. Who's doing now. Stand up that he would do. Colleges are weak and and so they. They asked me to write the whole scene. The bill in the of for then so i did i and then we shot the whole thing as if there were somewhere around here is a film of them all without cut aways to these other moments but honestly i i. I could be wrong. I could be remembering it incorrectly. But i don't remember having to pass those guys up at all and did you shoot because of david was just talking about that earlier about shooting multiple cameras for something like this where that having were you doing. Lovable cameras or were you where public. We used multiple cameras as often as we could two and sometimes three i with that third camera with the camera being an operator who was just looking for. Okay the camera now. Had a very strict sign a what they needed to do. See camera operator was told to make a documentary. Sign finds. Someone's hand starring like that us in that particular seed. I'm sorry i cannot remember Have any cameras state had working but it was probably at least two because in a scene like that. Frankly in almost every scene in the movie There there are a lot of people scenes a lot of coverage not much time forget it. We hope you enjoy listening. To part of this exclusive discussion. You can watch the full video of a theatrical feature film symposium on our website at d. h. e. a. dot o. r. g. slash events. And be sure to download next week's episode. Five theatrical feature film nominees will continue their discussion. Past episodes of the director's cut are available. Wherever you listen to podcasts and be sure to subscribe rate review. We'd love to hear your feedback and you can help fellow phonebox find the show. Thanks for listening and we'll see you next time. This podcast is produced by the directors. Guild of america music. is dan wally.

david lee isaac chung monari emerald fennell chloe zhao jeremy kagan sir gino jim bras Hey aaron dave ventures David bromwich river sharna Aaron sorkin china winco lockie david fincher aaron mike nichols harbaugh
Oscar Nominations 2021

Pop Culture Happy Hour

15:00 min | 3 months ago

Oscar Nominations 2021

"The oscar. Nominations are out and in the lead is make the david fincher directed film about the writing of citizen kane picked up the most nominations with ten while other films including nomad land. Trial of the chicago. Seven me not and judas and the black messiah performed well to we'll get into what surprised us and what disappointed us and this year more than ever you can check out the eligible movies from the comfort of your own home. I'm isha harris. And i'm linda holmes and today we're talking about oscar nominations on pop culture happy hour from npr. So don't go away. This message comes from npr sponsor capital one. Welcome to banking reimagined capital. One checking and savings accounts have no fees or minimums and top-rated banking app. That lets you manage your money anytime anywhere. Check on the account. Balance deposit checks pay bills and transfer money on the go. This is banking reimagined. What's in your wallet capital one. Na member fdic welcome back. It's just the two of us today. We're gonna give you just an overview of the major nominees. We'll have our big oscar preview closer to the ceremony you can find all the nominees at oscars dot org if you want to see every single one. Let's start. obviously. With best picture as i mentioned manque was nominated along with the father. Which is the film. Where anthony hopkins plays a man who is battling dementia judas in the black messiah shock kings film about fred hampton Me which is lee. Isaac chung's film about a korean american family who relocates to arkansas nomad land which is khloe. Zhao's film with france mcdormand Promising young woman which is emerald finals. Revenge thriller starring carey mulligan sound of medal darius martyrs film with his ahmed as a drummer who begins to lose his hearing and the trial of the chicago. Seven errands zorkin's courtroom drama about the chicago seven. Iii should your favorite on that list. You think ooh. I think this is actually a pretty decent less on the way the way the oscars can sometimes pan out. If agitated my top. Three it would be me nutty nomad land and somewhat controversial pick but promising young woman Those are the ones that i'm most excited about. But i also really like sound of metal by. I think i enjoy it. Make more than other people although i still don't think it necessarily deserved out the nominations it's gotten and say think is a really strong film with great performances. So i'm i'm pretty pleased. Yeah you know. The only one of these i have not seen i will tell you right now is because i did not cover it on our show and when i tried to watch it i got a little bit bogged down in it. I would say the chicago. Seven is probably my least favorite. But that's sort of because it's a little to me a little obligatory but the rest of these. I really think are are good movies. I agree with you about promising women. I loved sound of metal. I think he is the kind of movie that sometimes the oscars will overlook. Nomad land is is a beautiful film. I think it's a really really strong field. And there's nothing in there that i think like. How did that happen which is not always the case. Yeah yeah i mean you can totally see why man was not made a movie about movies and again trial of chicago. Seven just like courtroom drama of course and aaron sorkin right and it's a bunch of you know the historical film film about politics and you know it got a nomination for sasha baron cohen who also made a borat movie this year so he had a big year. Interestingly enough that the directors who are nominated did not include aaron sorkin for trial chicago. Seven which i think a lot of people expected he did get a screenplay nomination but the directors who are nominated. Were thomas winterberg for another round. That one i think was a little bit of a surprise and david fincher format lee isaac chung for me ninety khloe gel for nomad land and emerald fennel for promising young woman. It's the first time that two women have ever been nominated in the same year for best director such a low bar to clear an employee is the first woman of color ever nominated for best actor. These are pitiful records to be records at this point. I mean they are. It is sad that these are i. I am excited that they happened. But what a thing that. These are firsts. I don't know if there's much savion just like really excited that they are both. They're both emerald final clue. Yeah but also come on now like why are we still having these conversations. I would've loved to see regina king thrown into the mix as well. Probably instead of i dunno david venture i know he was making his dream project but it was also like so much. Make make make make make ninety man. That's our rundown of the oscar nominations. Yeah i'm excited about those two. And i i would add khloe. Jiao is also the first woman who's been nominated four times in the same year because she did so much of the work on nomad land she was nominated for directing for writing for editing and for producing which is the best picture nomination. So when we move onto actors you do have a think. More diverse acting field then has often been the case which is not necessarily saying much but in the lead actor category you have resulted in sound of metal of performance. I really super loved chadwick. Boseman and ma rainey's black bottom who i think. A lot of people expect to win. Anthony hopkins in the father. Gary oldman and mac and steven jahn in Me i already said. I love resign amid i love stephen young. How it you short do you think. Yeah i mean. I think all of these nominations are pretty strong although gary oldman again mink but but you're the one who likes mang. I mean i like it to a degree but i do think that chadwick boseman it is his award to lose and be so happy if he does win it but i will also be very happy if resume matters stephen when anthony hopkins especially in the final moments of the father has just really really really strong performance. But you know he's won the award already and sometimes that can work against you. So yeah it'll be interesting to watch when we move onto actresses we have vital davis. Ma rainey's black bottom andrew day in the united states versus billie holiday. She recently won golden globe. Vanessa kirby and pieces of a woman. Frances mcdormand nomad land and carey mulligan in promising young woman. I don't know if i have a favorite among those. I did love nomad land. And i like you. I like promising and woman. I liked that carey mulligan performance. Yeah i mean. I think it's interesting that we now have two women who have been nominated for playing billie holiday diana ross being the first For lady sings the blues some almost forty plus years ago. So it's interesting to see that. But i agree with you that it's of hard to parse out for me. At least who. I want to win. I think carey mulligan is really doing a lot with the difficult performance and so i really kind of hope she edges the others l. but i also think all these performances were strong. Although i will say like i had forgotten about pieces of a woman For various reasons. I do think. Vanessa kirby that's a film that begins with a woman in labor and then kind of goes on from there. I will say that is one that she i think was the best thing about it. Right i think her performance is the best thing about it and the way that characters written his best thing about it so That does happen. Sometimes when we move onto supporting actors as we mentioned sasha baron cohen in child chicago seven daniel columbia and keith stanfield for jesus and the black messiah if film that apparently has no lead actor only to supporting actors leslie junior in one night in miami and paul resi in the sound of metal nomination. I was very happy to see. These are all. I think we're good except i didn't care much about the social baron cohen in chicago seven. But you know the the other ones in here all interesting. It's interesting that Four out of five of these nominees are historical. Thanks again low bar. But i do kind of find it kind of frustrating to see colonia and keith stanfield. Both in this category. I feel like he's stanfield was very clearly the lead. Especially since the fred hampton character whom Daniel clear plays kind of disappears for parts of the movie for for long stretches of time. So i'm disappointed that that is how it shook out and that one of those spots couldn't have gone instead. Delroy lindo for defy bloods. Which basically i think the only nomination that will be received was for its score for terence blanchard so yeah really disappointed about that but overall it'll be an interesting race and i agree with you that rossi inside the metal is just really fantastic. So it's great to see him there too. yeah. I always like to see the film. Get where you know that. If the film had not been really good it would not have gotten a bunch of nominations as opposed to the ones where you say like they could have nominated this before it even came out. You know like like manque and like chicago seven. You know if out of metal hadn't been good it would not have picked up a bunch of nominations right. It's sort of needed to be good to to break through because it is a quieter story. But if people haven't checked that out on prime video actresses in supporting roles maria baca lova in borat subsequent movie film. Plus glenn close in hillbilly algae. There's a little whiplash for ya. Olivia colman the father. She's wonderful on that man deciphered in manque and a young eun in meaty several that i love in here. I love olivia colman and the father. I'm not a bore at person. I love the join yoon performance in me ninety. What do you think asian. well. I think it's Interesting to see pakalitha in their feel like she is the melissa mccarthy in bridesmaids nomination of the year for sure we rarely see any actor whether male or female but we rarely see especially like women being nominated for very not that. It's a light role because it is a kind of hefty character but it's clearly on the more zany side than it is hardly comedic. Yeah yeah yeah. As opposed to glenn close in hillbilly elegy. Which is like. I'd intentionally commuting. So it's interesting to note that The only two nominations at hillbilly elegy got were this glenn close performance and makeup which is sort of. I mean if you've seen her in that she is heavily disguised firm her normal self but boy several good i think performances in that category as well we are always interested in the screenplay categories because a lot of times you get your little interesting movies popping out in there but this year Most of them are ones that got a bunch of other nominations particularly original screenplay where you have juice in the black messiah me a promising young woman sound of metal and the trial chicago. Seven over in adapted. You do have a couple of interesting ones you know. The borat script is in there. The fathers in their nomad land is in there. They did get a nomination. For one night in miami for the camp powers screenplay. He's also the playwright. Yeah yes yes. The original play. Yes and then The white tiger so there are some interesting ones in adopted but interesting to note manque despite getting ten nominations. They did not nominate the screenplay. Whoa what i wonder. Shall we take away from that osso a movie. That is literally about writing screenplay. It's true it's true so Animated we have the two Somewhat expected pixar disney kind of ones onward and soul plus over the moon. A shaun the sheep movie far magadan. That's a nice long title and my personal sentimental favourite in this category wolf walkers which is a boy. That's a beauty. Yeah we'll fokkers was a surprise for me. I went into it knowing literally. Nothing about it so once i checked it out. It was just a lovely thoughtful movie. The animation is really brilliant and people can watch it on apple plus. It's right there. So i highly recommend they check it out. documentary feature collective which. I've talked about before. I really love which is a very tough documentary about a nightclub fire. crip camp. The mole agent my octopus teacher and time. We'll be checking out more of these as we approach the oscars. Because i'm still short a couple of documentary features. Yeah time is was one of my favorites of any movie last year And it's a really beautiful story about restored of justice and the prison industrial complex but in a very interesting way just cinematic so i encourage everyone to check it out for sure. And then we have international feature film of the year Another round from denmark better days from hong kong collective again from romania. The man who sold his skin from tunisia and quo vadis aida from bosnia and herzegovina. You know again as i still catch up with a couple of those. Yeah i need to catch up with with all of them. But i'm excited to and Yeah i i'm still catching up with those but We will have actually a full episodes about international feature and animated feature and documentary feature. So you can keep an eye out for those. These are again more accessible than usual. They are more available than usual. We'll keep you up to date on sort of finding and tracking those down and we do want to know what you think about. This year's nominations find us at facebook dot com slash pch on twitter at pch show. It's wonderful to talk to you. Thank you linda and before we go. We wanna share some good news for the first time in pop culture. Happy hour history. The podcast is getting on new logo. I love it if you want. Sneak peek of the new logo. It'll be in this week's newsletter you can subscribe to that at npr dot org slash pop culture newsletter again. Npr dot org slash of pop culture newsletter. And of course. Thank you for listening to pop culture. Happy hour from npr. We will see you all wednesday when we will be talking about. Oscar nominee stephen yawns essential performances on. Npr's consider this podcast. We don't just help you keep up with the news. We help you make sense of what's happening like what the case about. George floyd killing means for the ongoing fight for racial justice or how to best navigate a pandemic. that's changed life for all of us all of that in fifteen minutes every weekday. Listen now to consider this from npr. This message comes from npr sponsor capital one welcome to banking reimagined capital. One checking and savings accounts have no fees or minimums and top-rated banking app. That lets you manage your money anytime. Anywhere capital one. Na member fdic.

chicago carey mulligan oscar oscars sasha baron cohen anthony hopkins Vanessa kirby david fincher isha harris linda holmes aaron sorkin keith stanfield fred hampton manque Isaac chung darius martyrs zorkin khloe ma rainey thomas winterberg
What Filmmaker In Their Right Mind Would Sign-On To 'Guardians of the Galaxy 3' At This Point?

/Film Daily

30:43 min | 2 years ago

What Filmmaker In Their Right Mind Would Sign-On To 'Guardians of the Galaxy 3' At This Point?

"Who everyone and welcome to slash home daily for Wednesday. February six two thousand nineteen today's upset we're in touch with the latest film and TV news. This is slash film editor in chief Peter surrounded. I Jamie end his podcast slash weakened editor Brennan, hey, that's me in writers. Why turnby in Chris Evangelista? Hello, okay. Guys. We we've got a bunch of news today or catching up on all the news since the weekend. Let's start off things with they're making a groundhog day sequel, which is kind of a sprite is. But it's not in the form of a movie Brad, tell us about it. Yeah. On groundhog day. There was a little trailer released for a product called groundhog day, like father like son, which is a VR video game. That follows the son of Bill Murray's character. Phil Connors from the original groundhog day movie and just like his father, he wakes up on ground day in Punxsutawney, Pennsylvania. And his stuck reliving the same day on groundhog day over and over again. And while it seems kind of silly and odd to do something so simple as having fill Connor, son. You know deal with the same thing. He is what's kind of cool about this is that because it's a VR video game. You are the one who's in control of, you know, the experience and you have to try to figure out how to end the time loop. And so you get to walk around and see how things unfold, and basically seems like it's going to be like this big time loop puzzle kind of game where you're figuring out how to how to stop it. So that seems like it's it could be really fun. And it's at the very least it's better than them trying to do a movie sequel. I mean, I agree there in like I love the idea of time loops and exploring that in a video game form seems like a good idea. Like, I mean, you know, if you think about it like groundhog day or Westworld is basically like video game. But. Put out of this looks so bad the enemy style looks bad. You tell me that they couldn't have gotten Stephen Tova Levski reprises for all Ned in this in this video game. Like, I'm sure he would have been willing to step into sound booth for a couple of hours to record some lines for this VR video game HT, what do you think of this? I wasn't really impressed. I destroyer it just the animation again like you said is kind of bad and a little creepy, and I don't really feel like there's a good driving narrative of just reliving the same day over and over and doing something differently like as opposed to video game where you have some sort of goal in mind. Like what I don't know what the goal for. This would be the goal is to set the series of events in order in order to make it. So that they goes continues, right? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's why I think that's what's cool about it. Feels like it's going to be a puzzle game. So you're going to have to figure out what to fix and what to do and probably like things you have to stop from happening. And like probably kind of like the when when Phil realizes that he needs to start treating people better. And like, you know, save people from inconveniences mishaps and stuff like that. When he starts doing stuff for other people. I I imagined probably what you have to do is you have to keep a series of mishaps around happening. So you probably have to like observe first. And then be like, okay. So I have to be here this time stop this from doing this. So this doesn't happen. That's what it seems like to me. Anyway, this game sounds like Christmas worst nightmare. Yeah. I'm I actually don't think the animation style. Is that Bailey? You guys were saying but other than that. It's doesn't really do much as your semi. Yeah. Okay. Let's move on to alita battling Joel both each tea, and I talked about this on the water cooler. We both really enjoyed this movie. I think HD more than me in this film. Kind of you know, is orchestrated in a way that it's supposed to set off a franchise. I leave the, you know, there's some cliffhangers and stuff like that. I think it's safe to say that without that being kind of a spoiler. But it looks like we're probably not going to get any sequels battling. Joe because box office tracking is out. It's not looking good Chris how badly does it look like that Elaine Jones can do really badly. So the film cost between one hundred and fifty billion in two hundred million dollars to make and that's that's an estimate and early box office. Estimate say the the domestic total the final total probably is going to be around fifty million at that. And that's like the best it could possibly. So that's not good. That's a significant loss for FOX. There is always a chance it'll make money overseas. Because I think the the character is more well known overseas, you know, open China, and Japan, I think a week after it comes out in America. So maybe it'll make it's money back there. But it's looking very unlikely that this is going to be a an avatar style hit. I e even for it to be a middle of the road style. Had does it seem like it's going to chief that as well? And I don't blame it. Because if you if you look at the like the trailers and the advertising for this movie, it doesn't look good. Yeah. You're not wrong. I was very disappointed by the trailers or I had no real good impression from the trailers. And. It doesn't really convey how rich the world building and the visual effects are in the movie itself. So I don't think that this had a good marketing ad campaign. And it probably didn't help it in the long run. Brought to you even excited. See that'll angel not excited. I'm definitely more interested than I was before. Based on the reactions I've seen from you guys and other people online that I follow on Twitter and such. So I was going to see it either way. Just because it's one of movies that I feel like I need to see for myself. But the trailers definitely didn't have interested in it. It felt like it was going to be a bomb before we even got to this point if only because it just really wasn't representing itself as anything that you know, demanded to be seen on the big screen yet. I think FOX was doing these early press screenings to help get the word of mouth out there. But I don't think as much as each and I liked this movie. I don't think the word of mouth in the general audience is going to be high enough to help change these projections. So this will be the first major bomb. Two thousand eighteen it looks like let's move onto some news from the television critics association, which is happening this week at the ABC panel. It was revealed that they are they want to rebut lost ABC has not been able to shake its reboot fever and currently ABC president Kerry Burke said that a loss reboot is something. She'd be interested in seeing but she has not yet talked to original show, enters Kelsen cues, Daymond Lindelof or pilot rector Jj Abrams ABC studios about it. She said that this is literally at this point just what I dream about. When I go to bed at night. So it's not development is just something that ABC president is considering and it's possible that this could happen because ABC has been seeing a lot of success with their more recent reboots, like those an reboot Connors and one. Yes, I think that's it. We gotta go back. No. Or we do we have to go back. No, no, okay. Go back. Everybody's upset over this. Like is this really that bad of an idea? I mean for me, I understand that a lot of people very frustrated with loss, but I just loved everything about that series with all of its messy grand ambitions. And I feel like this was one of the last sort of big event watercolor shows apart from you know, game of thrones. And it felt like having that environment Washington in that context in the context of two thousand four when it came out was very essential to the series for me. I don't think I feel like it was kind of a lightning in a bottle kind of of series. And I don't know if that could strike twice. Ever since lost? That was a huge loss fan ever since. Then I've been looking for show, that's like this. And I think Westworld is the closest we've gotten to that Peter. Did you ever see flash forward? I didn't see flash for and I saw that one in the the boat. What was that one? I remember there were a lot of shows that tried to do that loss thing after losses such a big thing. And none of them were good the event the. Yeah. The events how memorable that show is kind of did something similar with the leftovers and people I haven't seen it. But I know people say that he pulled off the ambitious concept that he was trying to do initially with with lost. So maybe ten reputed with of leftovers, but doesn't have quite the pop culture impact as losted. But yeah, I agree with you, Peter like, I haven't really had a show like loss that has kept me. So just in thrall the entire time win an idea of of reboot. Like this comes up for so against it. Because we just see so many bad reboots. But I don't know I feel like waas could potentially be if done right with the right people. I know that's a lot to accomplish could be kind of like it could be like a twilight zone kind of thing where we're exploring these kind of interesting scifi ideas with the human dynamic, and you know, the island can mean many different like it could be a different island. I don't know. It'd probably be horrible. Brad. Are you at all interested? I don't really want them to try. It has a lot to live up to you. And it's never going to live up to that original series. I feel like what would be cool if they could pull it off at in this day and age it's kind of hard to do that. Is if they could make a show that was like a scifi show with you know, with weird mysteries and stuff like that. And then it suddenly turned into a loss spin off, and you didn't realize it until like the end of the first season or something like that Dowd being credible. But that'd be impossible to do. Because then you'd be like why Jj Abrams in, you know, Damon Lindelof and Colton cues executive producers on this weird new show. I mean, I mean, if anybody could pull it off it would be them like you make they can figure out a way to make it secretive. Maybe you pseudonyms or something like that. But the problem is the those kinds of things, you know, do get found out, and it would probably the little blown off it before this. The secret got out in the way, they wanted to see. But you know, I mean there there have been, you know, surprises that have happened before, you know, I mean, no one knew that split was going to be an unbreakable sequel until you know, the last minute. So can't trust watchmen is alas enough. That sounds impossible a possible. Okay. Let's move on to talk about other sequels in development or maybe not in development over the weekend. We will learn that to Zootopia sequels might be in the works or not. If you ask the filmmakers, Brad, what is going on here? Yeah. So this is kind of a rumor for now. But it feels like it's coming from a source that can probably be trusted this point, it, it seems like there's at least development onto utopia sequels, which we can call to Topi and Zootopia three up. And this comes from one of the voice actors in the movie Tommy tiny Lister who you might remember from playing the president in the fifth element and one of the prisoners in a small, but key role in the end of the dark Knight. He's the voice of the little FOX sidekick that helps Jason Bateman scared character Nick wild pull off scams on the on the side. And he was he made some publicity appearance like for a Q and A. I think there was some kind of like family screening of topiary at Dave and Buster's he was doing QNA there. And he mentioned that they were do doing three total Zootopia movies. And so it was kind of off the cuff, but he sounded pretty confident in the know about it. But be only downside to this is that we haven't heard of any active development on a sequel. So at the very least like it's not something that seems to be in production. Maybe they're still trying to crack the story or something like that. Because even any hints that there were of a sequel when the original came out. It was only discussions of different environments, and like settings and stuff that they wanted to explore in the first movie, but just didn't have any room for there were never ever any discussions of a possible plot threads or stories. Could just be another case. It'd be a buddy cop story, right? No. No for sure. Yeah. It's easy to imagine. Like, you know, the simple, you know, setting for for what it could be, but yeah, otherwise so for now, sure, maybe there's two more Basie wasn't development. The one thing that does make this seem likely is that Disney is about ready to spend a bunch of money creating as utopia land at their Disneyland Shanghai location. So I can't imagine you would wanna create entire land based on a movie that only has one title in its, you know, quote, unquote franchise so likely they'll expand the world of Topi a-, and it'll become a big thing. And yeah, we'll we'll see how it goes yet. I know that move did bunkers money in China. So surprised how it didn't feel like? A huge hit. But it's literally the second highest grossing Disney animation title ever only behind frozen. So that's crazy. Did you mention Byron Howard commented on this? I didn't because he he he comments on it. But it was in a way that wasn't really clear because someone asked him on Twitter back in early January. Whether there was as topiary sequel in production, and he said, no which sounds like he's saying the movies not in production. But not that a sequel isn't in the works when we push the story a bunch of people responded us like this is fake news and whatnot. Using that tweet, is example, I think people don't understand what the term in in production meets, you know, you might not be in production on a film until very late in that the pro developments not in production. So so there might be twos. Utopia sequels than the works. But they might not have entered the production phase of that. We'll see what happens with this are any of you excited for more Zootopia films. I like a first utopia, and I would watch the sequels. I wouldn't say I'm excited for it. Just because like I thought it was smart and funny by did think he'll is a little too self satisfied with self but IV fine with seeing more of them, especially because the world's just so fun. And yeah, the characters were so great for me. It's all but the world building I want to explore more of that world in the end. It'd be cool if they were able to squeeze some social political messages into kids movies. I I always love when that happens. So let's move on to World War Z to which is a film that David fincher was working on for a long time. It seems like it might be officially deaden buried, Chris. Tell us about it. Yeah. So back in two thousand seventeen paramount officially announced the David fincher would be directing World War Z two. And the immediate reaction was like, oh that can't be true. Why why would David fincher direct that and the movie has gone through fits and starts and production delays. And now, it seems like it's just a fishy dead. And paramount is pulling the plug. The reasoning is just basically just they blew it. Basically paramount kept pushing it off they never got it to where it wanted to be. And now it feels like too much time has passed. So you know, that's not saying there will never be another World War z. I'm sure somewhere align like rebooted or something that's the way things go. But as of now, the David fincher directed version with Brad Pitt is officially dead. Well, I don't think any of us actually thought this is going to happen. But didn't fincher has been trying to make a big budget movie for quite some time. Like he was originally on that. What was it at Disney the? Yeah. So he keeps trying to make these huge movies with big studios, you he wants to spend, you know, those hundreds of millions of dollars that he sees, you know, his friend Michael bay spending. And he just can't you know, it seems like the studios are, you know, he's a little. Would be the word crank tack like he's not the easiest guy to deal with. He's an autour. Right. And I it just seems like it may be the studio world isn't made for him. But Chris, do you think he'll ever get a chance to make one of these like big hundred million dollar movies? I guess I mean, he doesn't really make cheat movies to begin with. I mean his movies as they are accent. But I, you know, I love David fincher. I love almost all of his movies. So I would definitely see a movie he did that was a big blockbuster. But I I just want him to do something at this point. Because he hasn't made a film since gone girl in two thousand fourteen you know, he's he's directed episodes of mind hunter on Netflix, which is good. But I really want a new David fincher movie. I hate that. We haven't gotten that in a few years. So I'm hoping now that he's officially off this he'll actually move on to something else. And we'll get a new movie from him soon. Disney really need someone to direct gardens galaxy volume three maybe the David fincher for this, right? Like, I wouldn't even know what that would be. That would be insane. I I would be the first to pay money to see that though just to like feel like what is that? But that does bring us our next story that is takeaway t- who had been kind of rumored and fans have been kind of like, maybe not speculating but wish wishing that he might take on the role of director in the third guardians of galaxy movie. He came out in kind of said, that's not gonna happen. Brad. Tell us about it. Yes. So Tyco white t t appeared at the television critics association panel or FX as they're presenting their new series that are coming in the the next few months here. And what we do in the shadows of the film that he directed. His getting a television adaptation on FX. So he was in attendance and was inevitably asked about the possibility of him doing another marvel movie, and he confirmed that if he did want it wouldn't be guardians of the galaxy three, but he is still down to do some. Kind of other project with marvel studios. So that's definitely a big disappointment free people thought he was the only person who could really inherit those rains, especially for those who thought it would be cool if Thor stuck around and teamed up with the guardians of the galaxy since their banter and involvement with each other individuals sanity war was such a cool experience. But you know, it's just at this point, you know, I don't know who should be stepping up to direct yards of the galaxy three. And as time goes on, you know, more and more people just keep saying like, you know, just just get James Gunn back because that was a whole shitty situation. You know, even people like every now, and then people toss around like Edgar Wright online, and you're right would never do that. He got snow cheaper. Even. Well, even said in a tweet to you is like he was like he was like, I know who should direct gardens out to three James Gunn. And Chris Miller said also said the same thing when he was offered a similar. Proposal by fans on Twitter. So like, there's plenty of filmmakers out there who think that James gone still needs to be the one to direct guardians three inches. A shame that Disney, you know, put their foot in the ground in are trying to hold firmly on something so stupid. Like, this will also James Gunn is now busy with dust suicide squad over at Warner Brothers. So it doesn't look like he's going to be coming back. I mean, maybe marvel wait Merlin Disney. Wait a few years. But like who do you think didn't he could actually get for this? Like, I feel like. Anybody that would be exciting. It's gonna turn this down because they're either friends with Jamie James garner. They know that this is a horrible minefield to enter into. And then I don't feel like if if marvel hire someone like, you know, a Sundance director like they did with you know, Spiderman homecoming or, you know, something like that. Then I feel like the fan backlash will just be insane. Like, I feel like they need to get someone that fans already behind. No, maybe Jack Hornish because he needs a hit after the kid who would be king, and he accomplished director to say that because I think that he could do something really good with the property like this. But I wonder if he's too close with that, you're right. And maybe didn't like the experience that they had on ant man to do that. Yeah. One of my friends suggested Shane black who obviously is coming off of predator. The predator. Which wasn't you know, wasn't that big of a hit in? And he's worked with marvel in the past with ironman three. But I'm not sure if even he would want to like, I feel like he he seems like a guy that has like. Like a code of ethics that would prevent him from from taking on someone else's movie. And also like why would he want to direct someone else's script? If you like he is usually involved in the scripting as well as directing plus then got into the galaxy has to take place at Christmas in Los Angeles. Yeah, hey, they could have a Christmas tree on the the ship. Right. They did that aliens. So his name is Groot. Now. I'm picturing them dressing Groot as the Christmas tree. Why haven't they made that hallmark ornament? Brad grew as a Christmas tree. I mean because there's plenty of grew ornaments. Yeah. Maybe you're onto something here. Peter, I should be in the virtue dicing, Disney merchandising. Okay. Let's move on to another Disney property that's vendors and game. I think we talked about this a couple of months back when the Virgil brothers said that the current cut for vendors and game would or at that time. It was the vendors four was over three hours. And at the time we talked about it. We were like oh. But that's it's probably going to get cut down from there. Like, this is probably just narrowly cut, you know, whatnot. But it looks like in played actually stay that long. H T is that what's going on? There three hour cut has not gone down. It was back in November of last year that Anthony Joe Russo said that there at the halfway point of editing avengers for Sasha ventures and game. And they said then it was a three hour, Mark. And recently Joe Russo said we're still at three hour, Mark. And it may stay that way. Because they've been getting some great responses from test audiences apparently who said that who apparently sat down for all three hour three plus hours. Whoever many it is and did not go to the bathroom ones. So that's kind of the Russo brothers testament to why they may keep the three hour run time. And they said that Disney has given them permission, essentially, if three hours the film is able to hit all the emotional beats that needs Brad. A three hour of injuries movie. Excite you or is that make it less? Like, are you less excited over that? No. I mean, I didn't finish. Any war for being a two and a half hour movie? Feels like a breeze to me. I I'm sure maybe Chris my disagree with that since he's not as big of a fan. But no, I'm all especially considering how big of a deal this is and how much you know, has led up to this a three hour movie. Sounds perfectly fine to me. So yeah, bring bring it on. I'm I it could be as long as they want it to be Chris how long does it need to be for you, forty five minutes. Cut and dry. Not even feature length this, you know, open open with a quick recap. And then, you know, go into a fight scene. And then cut two credits were done ear. We need the humor. We don't just want. The we don't want the end of the the marvel end of the movie fight scene. That's the least interesting part of the movie you want to ripping IRA. The this have forty five minutes of riffing and credits. The Chris doesn't a at bec- movie like this. This is a conclusion of ten years marvel cinematic universe doesn't this deserve epic run time of three hours. I I don't know. Three three hours is pushing it man, I don't know. Like, I I actually like long movies that know how to handle the their pacing? Really? Well, like one of my favorite movies is Oliver Stone's JFK, and that movie is very long. But it it it's it knows how to handle the pacing. And if the Russo brothers can do that they can get the pacing them. I won't mind that lake but based on their previous work. I don't know if they can do that. I definitely felt like Infinity war is like a half hour too long. So I'm willing to be proven wrong though. As always I think it's more about the scripting for me. Like, I feel like there's so many characters in this movie that I love and I want to see them all get some substantial time on there. But like it really is about how you structure that, you know, those three acts or whatever. So that it doesn't feel like you know, that ending fight. Sequences going on for an hour. You know? So anyway, let's move on onto our last story for today in that is that the avatar sequels have cast a new role Christos about it. Yeah. Avatar two and three of already wrapped. But I guess they have cast members. They haven't announced yet. So easy Falco who was fantastic on the sopranos, and she's pretty much fantastic. And everything she does she has joined the cast playing a new character named general Ardmore who is a commander in charge of the RDA, which is the the super conglomerates evil corporation from the first film. So that kind of suggests she's going to be a new villain. I guess it doesn't really say what her carrier's gonna do. It just says that she's a general and. And it's not even clear which of the sequel, she's appearing in you know, there are technically four two in three already shot. They haven't started four and five yet. But I'm assuming she's in all of them. I guess I don't I don't really know. But for now, she is definitely in one of the avatar sequels. We just don't know, which when are these movies hitting theaters at this point? I'd say all right avatar to opens December eighteenth twenty twenty avatar three is December twenty twenty one avatar four is December twenty twenty four and avatar five is December twenty twenty-five which sounds like such a futuristic date. I can't even comprehend it. Are you a fan of Falco's work? I love anytime. She is a great actress. She's she's one of the actresses who she doesn't like showy performances, but she's like theater trained, and she knows exactly what she's doing. And if you go back and watch her on the sopranos, she's she's pretty much knocking out of the park every episode. I feel like I mostly only know her from the sopranos, but it is weird that they're announcing this casting after filming has been completed. Maybe they're doing re-shoots or would they really like at a whole new character for re-shoot that seems I'm Ed this is one of those situations or are we just don't know anything about the movie, and she's been a part of it this whole time, but they just hadn't announced her yet. Yeah. That. Shooting out in public where we can see them anyway. So she wouldn't have been spotted onset. Yeah. That's very possible. I mean, they're sitting in these warehouses in what Manhattan beach or whatever. Okay. That brings us to the end of today slash daily bread working. We find more your work on line always on slash film dot com. Also on Twitter at Ethan underscore Anderton. And you can check out my podcast, go flicks yourself available on itunes, another podcasting platforms. And also if you wanna listen in just recently recorded an episode of masterpiece, which is Josh Beagles podcast where we talked about Doug's first movie and that's coming out this weekend. I think on Saturday. So if you wanna listen to me get really mad about how terrible Doug's first movie is listened to that way. I thought he only review Disney movies, the Doug's first movie is a Disney movie because. Yeah, because Disney bought ABC in the late nineties, and they picked up jumbo picture. Which was the creator of Doug. So Doug went from being a Nickelodeon show to being an ABC show. And when it went over to ABC, it all went to hell, why don't we have a Doug ride, Brad? I mean, I would love to have a quail man ride. That would be amazing. Okay. HD where can we find you can find me vetting everyday at slash film dot com, and I'm on Twitter H TRAN Billy, and Chris where you at. I'm also slash dot com. And I'm on Twitter at sea evangelist of four thirteen you can find me at slash dot com, and at slash on also from media, you can find all the stories we've talked about today on the website link in the show notes this podcast lush dailies published every weekday on itunes, Google play overcast Spotify all the popular podcast apps. Please feel free to send your feedback question. Comments concerns to us at Peter dot com. If you have ideas on who should direct guardians galaxy volume three of here. Those please rate in this podcast tunes. Tell your friends. For the word. We'll see you tomorrow.

Brad Pitt Disney Chris David fincher Peter ABC Twitter Phil Connors Anthony Joe Russo Doug Westworld Merlin Disney president Jj Abrams Bill Murray James Gunn China
Netflix vs Blockbuster Revisited - Binge | 6

Business Wars

25:37 min | 2 years ago

Netflix vs Blockbuster Revisited - Binge | 6

"It's January thirty first twenty thirteen. The head of content at Netflix, Ted Sorrento's, walks into the office of David fincher and acclaimed filmmaker they smile and Saranda slides into a chair. From their demeanor. You wouldn't guess both men's reputations are riding on an enormously expensive experiment that launches at midnight as go and David you're ready. Yeah. Think we've really got something big here. The first time viewers will get the entire season of a new show from the first episode to the very last all at once ventures adaptation of British political thriller represents net flicks. His first big investment in original programming launching all the episodes at one time. That's a bold move that surround us believes net. Flicks must make if it wants to dominate internet television. There's no choice really as he sees. If Netflix is going to compete with HBO, it has to stream its own, original quality content. Ventures adaptation is compelling obsessively. So in fact, and Netflix data shows overlapping audiences for the show's top stars and for fincher himself, a two-time Oster winter three years earlier when Hollywood found out fincher wanted to make a TV series. Well studio heads started getting in line after all fincher was the name behind some real winters like the social network seven and the curious case of Benjamin button. In fact, venture with so much in demand that he set up a Saturday pitch marathon on Sony's lot to hear all offers Saranda skip the scrum and instead scheduled a meeting adventures office, I he shared his data. And then he cut to the chase Saran does knew what he was doing speaking to the heart of a creative. David, I know the remission reasons not to make house of cards with net flicks. But I'm gonna give you a couple of reasons why it makes sense for you. I here's a guarantee two seasons with no pilot and second I'm gonna leave you completely alone. So you can make the series you want. What do you say? When Netflix gets the deal Giulio exects tell Saran does he's crazy to spend so much and then release them all at once drag it out Ted make them come back every week. You can use it to launch new shows. But Sarande us remembers that was blockbuster strategy. And look what happened to them. It's one minute after midnight and house of cards goes live. All thirteen episodes. This show will either vault. Netflix into a universe of new and dedicated viewers or be one of the most infamous face plants in Hollywood history. Support for business. Worse comes from Capital One with the spark cashcard from Capital One. You earn unlimited two percent cash back on all of your business purchases. Think about it unlimited. Two percent cashback on everything you buy for your business, and that cashback can add up to thousands of dollars, which you can reinvest back into your business. So you can keep growing. Imagine. What unlimited two percent cashback do for your business. Learn more at Capital One dot com. What's in your wallet? From wondering this is business wars. I'm David Brown. We left our story in the last episode Reed. Hastings of Netflix was taken off shucks approach humbly playing down any threat. Netflix by pose to the studios that is until you've gotten himself a safe lead in the battled for best content. Now, Netflix is moving in on HBO serve. But it's a bit of a two way street, really see content wise, at least Netflix is trying to be more like HBO, but HBO realizes it has to get streaming down like Netflix, which means each one has a different strategy. But in a sense, the objective is the same beat the other side at their own game in twenty eleven HBO sees glimmers of televisions future. And it's in the cloud where Netflix is the leader in streaming video. Three years before. Netflix. Streams house of cards Time-Warner CEO, Jeff Yuka sets out to create his killer app, specifically designed to eat into Netflix streaming supremacy. The app is called HBO go and it lets viewers watch their favorite H B O shows like the sopranos sex in the city six feet under on their laptops and mobile devices, you know, just like net flicks. But with quality content, but at least that was bucase fish for HBO, but he hasn't been entirely forthcoming because you see to us HBO go you need more than just that app can need to subscribe to regular HBO through your cable provider. That means you're free HBO ends up costing what more than one hundred bucks since you're paying cable Bill with a premium channel free HBO right reviewers, call HBO deceptive plus for that kind of cash viewers. Don't expect. It to be glitch ear have poor video quality viewers are ticked and they're talking about it and very public places like on YouTube. It's making the mistakes perhaps blockbuster made its clinging onto a delivery system. That is becoming obsolete is kind of an opposite field of dreams situation. If you don't build it. They will leave. So in total frustration viewers. Go renegade. Some turn to bittorrent that notorious file sharing protocol where they're stealing pirated H B O shows or they share HBO go passwords to watch shows on the app without having to pay for cable yellow pay a high has gone. Can I get the HBO go password again? No, I shouldn't keep giving you the password like this. It's basically stealing right on that put on hold. I'll look it up. If HBO doesn't get it. Millennials are happy to spell it out for them. They're leaving in droves. They're getting in buke asus. Face telling him straight up that they're stealing his content. Hey, TV has its worst performance on record in twenty ten losing one hundred thousand subscribers in its second quarter and how does Bucs. React believe it or not Bucs isn't even convinced that the so called cord cutters actually exist these certain that cord cutters. Poured nevers millennials who never signed up for cable in the first place for just going through a phase for cutting is more of a notion than a reality. Once these millennials take the mattress off the floor and move into their own homes with television set that's when those strive to HBO. I mean, look at the time. You could have argued Bucs was right? Millennials made up less than five percent of HBO subscribers in twenty ten and even now only about sixteen million US adults have canceled cable though, that number's increasing quickly Bucs calculates that HBO's making three billion dollars a year from the cable companies that carry HBO now why risk that for non customers who already admit they're going to pirate content. Anyway. Nevertheless, HBO is stuck stuck it about twenty eight million domestic subscribers, and it has another problem to verifiable hits they've been few and far between since the sopranos went off the air section the city and six feet under ended their runs to say nothing of some rather expensive flops. Meanwhile, Netflix has been on a tear Hastings in Saranda are happy. Let Bucs balk at cord cutting. Netflix says the best streaming app on the planet and the shows they're offering their newer, and they're getting better all the time. Shows that are addicted. Programs like breaking bad mad men. Get amazing puzzle. Their home network AMC with they're just not pulling in the numbers until Netflix picks up their older seasons. Then suddenly compound they're more than critics favorites. They're bona fide hit. Actually, it's a nice symbiotic relationship. Netflix. Streams the old episodes of these shows generates a huge audience viewers. We wanna binge on entire seasons than when the original network airs the new episodes while the viewers head back to regular TV to watch them and the ratings soar they call this the net flicks effect avenues at AMC sore. Forty percent, thanks to the net. Lakes back. And wouldn't you know, it the network's lineup to cut deals with Netflix, even Beukah shakes hands with devil. He offers up the plastic surgery drama nip tuck and a handful of coal TV shows like Veronica Mars, pushing daisies, and Terminator the Sarah Connor chronicles. Still Bucs is not entirely comfortable with this arrangement. When Netflix his Saranda makes the annual trek to Time Warner New York scouting for reruns. He tries to put bucase his mind. Es and maybe open the door to a deal for H B O shows. This is a great deal for you. These are great shows Lee can find him an audience we'd be happy to do the same for your H B O shows you could shut Saranda down. Netflix is the last stop for shows. I can't sell anywhere else. Dead. I see Netflix is a utility service kind of trash pickup. Bucs may be closely guarding top-shelf stuff, but Saranda finding other companies happy to share theirs to get the benefit of the net flicks effect and Sorrento's get something he really really wants in return, the exclusive rights to all seasons of any TV series. He licenses and the reason is binge watching what these companies don't know is that Netflix is focus groups show that people feel good file binging. They form an emotional attachment to Netflix. It's almost a Pavlovian response. Netflix knows viewers respond to it sound logo. With a sense of pleasant anticipation, if you've ever been yourself, perhaps you've noticed it when you finish one episode the next one automats pops up, and I'm guessing just maybe you've hung in there for that next episode. Right. Well, that's by design. Netflix uses this couch potato effect to condition you to do just that Saranda is amused by how much net flicks and binging of seeped into the American vernacular Saranda likes to joke about stream cheating. It's when you jump ahead without your friend or partner to watch the next episode. We seem to be leading a cultural phenomenon of stream cheating with that said. Netflix can't be held responsible for any trust issues. Lovers. Fats or marital troubles that arise from watching a head of your partner. So watch responsibly Saranda is riding high on media accolades and subscriber love he should be on top of the world. But only can think about is how to avoid the slow motion crash. He sees coming. When the studios realized that internet television is inevitable unstoppable. They'll quit selling him their best shows and movies and set up competitors. He sees a wave of it coming around the corner. And he hates to admit it. But Saran does knows that Bucs is right viewers. Need a reason to come to networks, and if it doesn't create its own content and soon it'll become a virtual landfill for old TV shows and movies publicly net looks head honcho Reed. Hastings says his company is an interested in making any major bets on original content, but Saranda snows that for the long haul. Netflix not only has to create its own original content for those programs have got a rock the audience. Business wars is brought to you by chase. So you're ready to buy your first home, but the market for your dream home is insanely competitive edge face vague, it chases closing guarantee gives you the edge you need to stand out as a trace customer. You're guaranteed to close quickly or you get one thousand dollars. So you can show homeowners. You're serious about buying without the personal letter or gift basket or sky riding it over their house getting your first home even faster with chase. Learn more at chase dot com slash BW. Chase make more of what's yours all home lending products are subject to credit and property approval rates program. Terms and conditions are subject to change without notice not all products were available in all states or for all amounts of the restrictions and limitations apply. Home lending products offered by day Morgan Chase back in a an equal housing lender. Business wars is brought to you by Dell. There's nothing small about your business. Your impact on the communities made a huge difference. As thank you during small business month. Dallas offering up to forty five percent off select computers with Intel core processors, plus get a free external hard drive with select PC purchases. Call eight seven seven buy Dell to speak with a small business. Technology advisor today that's eight seven seven B Y D E L L for tech advice and one on one partnership eight seven seven by Dell. The story of house of cards starts in twenty ten when serandon has an accidental meeting with destiny. He's wrapping up a meeting with television executive Saranda is about to walk out the door when the executive he's visiting mentions show that still on the drawing board may be net. Licks would like the rights to its reruns. It's called house of cards. David ventures, directing Kevin Spacey and Robin writer already attached to star Saranda sleeps through the package of scripts his gut tells him this could be big really big venture is set to pitch the show to rival production studios that Saturday at the Sony lot HBO AMC all the biggest guns are set to now. Netflix has never done anything like this. And Saranda us knows. He needs an edge to be taken seriously. So he asks the studio rep to do him a favor. I want this show. I really want this show. But I don't wanna go to that Saturday pitch meeting. I wanna be David separately. So we can tell him why. He should sell it to Netflix. To be on the safe side. Sarande's runs the elements through Netflixing database and his instinct is right. There is an audience a big audience waiting for a show just like the one fincher wants to make when Saranda sits down with fincher at his office on Hollywood Boulevard. He places all his chips on house of cards, his one hundred million dollars, a substantial chunk of his content budget, just by Netflixing, exclusive license to distribute this one title, not even it just distribute it. David. Let me be clear. Yes. We want the show. And here's why you should make it at Netflix. Saranda snails down house of cards. Now. It's time to tell the boss what he's done yet. That's right Saranda made the deal without even checking with boss, man Reed. Hastings Saranda spots Hastings on the floor of net. Flicks. His headquarters Saranda says face says he's excited and worried too. Hey, read, we gotta talk. Sure to what's on your mind. Look, we just made a very big bet on house of cards. How big Ted one hundred million dollars big? Saranda waits for a distinct in. Waits for Hastings to react Hastings raises. His eyebrows and waits for an explanation. He knows Saran. Does wouldn't do something like this? If he wasn't sure it would work. And Saranda says right? Most of the time still. Hundred mil that's a freaking big camp. Look if we're wrong we dramatically overpaid for one show. But if we're right this could change the whole trajectory of the company. Long silence. And. Yes, tastings is on board. We've got to become HBO for HBO becomes. Things have been a mixed bag for a few years at HBO killer app. HBO go doesn't go really. It's not moving any needles at least an HBO's had only one big hit lately. True blood, which is not typical for the network that considers itself the gold standard for content then HBO's head of programming Michael Lombardo. Green lights to series one is called simply girls about angst. Ridden sexually adventurous millennials living in New York, then HBO takes a risk that might be even bigger the net. Flicks his house of cards. It's new show is a fantasy series called game of thrones. Each of the first season's ten episodes cost six to ten million dollars to produce Lombardo has some angst filled moments when he screams the five million dollar pilot for the first time. In fact, he orders it to be reshot. When it finally debuts on April seventeenth twenty eleven some critics call it tantalizing breathtaking despite the high body count fantasy fans can't get enough of it. And soon the show becomes the first global TV blockbuster. Lombardo has a second Spanish on his hands with the comedy-drama girls writer actor Lena Dunham dives into the world of the self absorbed York writer in her twenty something friends, it's better smarter. And more honest than sitcoms on broadcast television. That I may be the voice of my generation, or at least a voice of a generation. The show doesn't deliver killer ratings, but it brings in something even more important for H B O right now, the eyeballs of a younger generation of viewers. HBO's new chief Richard Butler had asked Lombardo for a couple of hits a few mid range successes and Lombardo delivers boardwalk empire flight of the conchords the newsroom and veep. Put HBO back on top as the place to go for edgy lush, adult television. And boy do millennials and everybody else wash HBO's new shows just not the way Beukah sit hoped cable. Subscriptions are still flat as twenty thirteen dawn's, but millions of viewers flocked to file sharing sites to legally. Download game of thrones episodes that gives it a dubious distinction the world's most pirated television series. This is all happening while viewers are begging Bucs to let them pay for his content. Only not through cable in two thousand twelve a guy named Jay Caputo puts up a website asking people to tweet how much they'd pay for a standalone HBO streaming service Twitter blows up with a couple of hundred thousand tweets in the first forty eight hours after Caputo launches take my money, HBO dot com and still bucase does nothing. As the debut of house of cards nears, the entertainment industry's buzzing with predictions of disaster Saran is a fool to release all the episodes at once people will run out of shows to watch and cancel their service if they can wash all they want the shows won't resonate. If viewers can watch them all at once the critics say and what did net flicks know about making television anyway. But on that day in twenty thirteen when viewers finally get access to all the episodes of house of cards at once will they like what they see. The show was a huge critical success and an audience in sation. Netflix won't tell anyone how many people are actually watching the new show but word of mouth puts it at about twenty nine million viewers. Clearly, people are binging the episodes of Netflix is own show. Just like they've been binging other shows on the service. And everyone keeps talking about house of cards all year long. Reviewers hail it as the equal to HBO and showtimes programs net. Flicks. Garner's fourteen EMMY award nominations nine for house of cards alone and wins three it's first year. HBO's hall of one hundred eight nominations dwarfs that but still being included with the established duty os as Dacian enough for Netflix house of cards stars Kevin Spacey and Robin Wright or sought after on the red carpet as the first actors nominated for an internet series HBO is still the content king. It'll take billions of dollars for net. Flicks to catch be oh, but like the cunning Frank Underwood character Netflix ambitious and ready to pounce on any serious HBO miscalculation every kid grows up to be a cat. They seem so harmless at first small, quiet lapping this. Ulcer of milk. The ones that close in long enough, they draw blood sometimes from the hand that feeds them for those of us climbing to the top of the food chain that can be known mercy. There is one pool hunt or be hunted. On the final episode of Netflix versus HBO who will hunt and who will be hunted. We'll follow these giant says they compete not only with each other. But with Amazon and FOX Disney and Hulu apple and Comcast in their own version of game of thrones. From wondering this is business wars. And we hope you enjoyed this episode please subscribe on apple podcasts. Spotify Google podcasts. Stitcher. Iheartradio or wherever you listen to podcasts. You'll find a link on the episode notes just tapper swipe over the cover. Art. Also, see some offers from our sponsors, please support our show by supporting them. Hey, if you like what you've heard we would love it. If you could give us a five star rating until your friends how to subscribe to there's another way you can support us. And that's by answering short survey at wondering dot com slash survey. Don't forget to tell us what business were stories you'd like to hear a quick note about the conversations you've been hearing. We can't know exactly what was said. But this dialogue is based on our best research. I'm your host David Brown. Gina Keating, author of the book Netflixing wrote the story. Karen, low is our senior producer editor our editor and producer is Ginny lower Beckmann sound designed by Jeff Schmidt and bay area sound our executive producers Marsh. Louis gated by earn on Lopez for wondering.

HBO Netflix Saranda HBO Saranda Bucs Saran Hastings Saranda Ted Sorrento David fincher Reed chase Saran David Sarande Sony Capital One David Brown Michael Lombardo
Henry Cavill Is Not Demanding Script and Director Approval for Man of Steel 2 - Movie Talk

Collider Movie Talk

00:00 sec | 2 years ago

Henry Cavill Is Not Demanding Script and Director Approval for Man of Steel 2 - Movie Talk

"The following program is brought to you by your friends at podcast one. Don't forget to download our new podcast one out. Hi, it's Jamie, progressive's number one number two employee. Leave a message at the hey, Jamie. It's me, Jamie. This is your daily pep talk. I know it's been rough going ever since people found out about your Capella group mad harmony, but you will bounce back. I mean, you're the guy always helping people find coverage options with the name your price tool. It should be you giving me the pep talk. Now get out there, hit that high note, and take mad harmony all the way to nationals this year. Sorry, it's pitchy. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. On today's show of vendors and game Runtime is currently at three hours World War Z to has no run time and does Henry Cavill really demand Brown Eminem's in the green room during the mother, filming superman to all that more today's Coletta movie talk guy rumors of demands and we're shooting them down near than right today is in gentlemen. Welcome to collider movie talk. I am merely Mark Ellis. These to love themselves, some frozen food Haley, and John Rocca one Love's oatmeal one loves rice, but they both demanded from their grocer's freezer. Incidentally, Roca, you are enjoying the new domestically. Life living with your lady. Yeah. You guys went shopping last night to trader Joe's, and it was a new experience. It was there's a line. There's a song in Aladdin a whole new world. I'm really living. Apparently, I was eating all the wrong foods for the last thirty years that's been corrected quickly. And I got the tex- apparently are two rugs have arrived. Oh domesticity. How great this is. Isn't a nice. I always missed the text right before you go to air. Like, oh was a fire. I'm gonna put out in forty five. Not of previously. Haley faucher. You also at trader Joe's fan, we have a lot of here in southern California. Yeah. Grew up in southern California. It's it's mistake Bill. I'm a cliche, buddy. What do you shop at whole foods? But as the super rich what I'm saying when you go to use your Amazon prime thing, they scanning say we saved the eighteen dollars. And I'm like, it's still doesn't matter. Still doesn't matter the run time of avengers endgame because it's currently at three hours. Now, you may be checking your calendar and say with a he's not coming out for another couple of months. You're right. It comes out at the end of April. However, the Russo brothers have said that they're pretty much done with the film. They've been screening test audiences. Yes. Some people have been tested audit. How do you win that lottery? They've gotten to see it. It's getting rave reviews. However that three hour Runtime may not quite stick. Because the brother said the while they're deep into the process. They're not finished with all the shots. They're not finished with all the cuts, but Disney their buses has said, look if you like your three hour run time, and we think it's going to pack an emotional punch, which is why the brothers wanted to be that long for at twenty two movies here. We'd better give some Runtime Disney's cool with that releasing in theaters with three hours. So the question on the table is will. The dollar signs indicate this is three hour movie. Will that turn some fans awfully be able to screen the movie less than a normal two to fifteen run time, which is what we've been accustomed to marble moves. But I will note it seems like every movie that's come out recently has a slightly longer run time. They feel like a batter who got the first base successfully is now engine towards second base. And with vendors endgame Rocca, they may be stealing it because three hours is a defeat runs. I am all in for it. Because I agree with the Russo brothers. We've been waiting for this film for ten years. We didn't know we were waiting for it all ten years. But this is a decade in the making three hours is totally cool. Yeah. You know, what Colonel thing about the Russo brothers is they keep upping the ante. Right. You think we can't put fifteen superhero film Bom airport scene? Can't do thirty five boom universe. Galaxies three hours bomb. Like, it's amazing to me how Joe and anti are not overwhelmed by the task at hand and bringing this universal like kind of bringing this spaceship back into port landing this thing and going like, you know, what you did what we. Did were out. So I respect the fact that this is going to let them do this. We've seen films that are three hours long. Do a billion dollars a box us Titanic. What a best picture in ninety seven doing that. It was three hours long with no intermission. We saw recently inglorious bastards head and intermission. People. Still went to see that. I think it's with something like this. Remember the last one was two hours and forty minutes, if I'm correct vendors vendors Infinity were so you look at that. You look what's an extra twenty between friends we've been through twenty two and films. What's next in twenty minutes? I think walk in endgame. I could've watched another twenty minutes at that film. So to me this excites me that makes me happy because I'm a film love, and I wanna spend as much time as possible in the wit the Russo brothers. I don't want an intermission. I want to explore that world and stay in that word for the full three hours and see how they finish out the series. Yeah. Hey, we this the question of intermission that Roca brings his very interesting to me because I think on the one hand my bladder would certainly preferred intermit- whatever if we're already talking about a three hour Runtime and how. That may have to cut some screenings at theaters what would an intermission due to that wouldn't actually help the theater chains. Because when you get an intermission. Yeah. You may relieve yourself you may also go get another popcorn another soda. More candy a hotdog to emotionally digest what you just saw on screen. So I think in a way intermissions could help theater chains. Yeah. I could see that. I mean, I think realistically it doesn't matter. If this film is three hours long for the theater chains the book and into as many theaters as they need to that's more of a bummer for other films that might get kicked out because there are less screening slots available. Great point the middle class, really get squeezed. Yeah. Well, actually, this film that I really loved last year the endless basically that happened because marvel bumped the release date up a week. They lost a ton of their theaters. So that does happen, and that's unfortunate. But I don't think it matters at all for endgame. They're going to they're gonna book up every theater with that. Every fans, of course, going to go see it. Nobody's going to be turned off by three hours. Nobody cares at this point. And in terms of intermission. I. I wouldn't want that in this particular movie. You look at hateful eight it's a very theatrical film. It feels like a stage play in a lot of ways and intermission works there. I not obviously not knowing what in game is. I don't think I would like that action broken up in the middle. And that way, it would be kind of jarring to see whatever's unfolding again the Russo brothers like, hey, we pointed out, maybe didn't direct this film in the same style as Tarantino knowing going in there's going to be an intermission. So how do you cut it? It's like sometimes when you're watching a YouTube that and all of a sudden it cuts off because then twenty five minutes, we're giving you an ad doesn't matter if it's mid somebody sentence rang, if it's mid music, whatever it is you get your intermission Roca. Are you personally as the go in for an intermission if we can slice it up a little tidier, then say what we got with Monty python and the holy grail. No, I'll be honest with you. I don't want it intermission in Haley's camp. I think this film was made not to have an intermission to take me out of the world will already we are recovering from half the galaxy dying and being turned to dust. I wanna stay in this whole thing and get to the end as quickly as possible delaying me by fifteen minutes. So then my all our friends could go to the bathroom or whatever and come back with drinks. I don't want or start talking about it. Or you know, what's going to happen? You go out and that and people are gonna start a theorizing about what the second half of the movie is going to be and I don't want to thing ruined. I just want to sit and watch them. We'll be all the way to the end. So that's the danger in in an internship mission. Like, this you don't get bed. Hurry, looking to the classic films at intermission west side story like that you weren't like oh my God. What's going to happen is you're gonna get crucified or not? That's not the same thing. This. There's so much more involved too. I think if you have an intermission, you could lose the vibe of the film, and that's really the most important thing. I don't know if we've ever said this before there's so many times. Code this Roque. I think you want me over what you what you said what you're applying is that there's going to be people after the first few screenings that have seen eventers endgame. And there's going to be a lot of people that still have not seen it right now. If there's an intermission your funnel back out into the lobby. You you're you're basically doubling your chances of hearing somebody talk about it. You remember force awakens everybody trying to avoid. I don't wanna hear anything. I'm blasting my ear buds, and you can still hear this character dies. I don't want to have that happen inventors endgame now having said that there's no rule that says when a theater a removing has an emission you have to leave the screening room, but people get on their phones. I just for me. I love the theater going experience. And I love when a movie can shut everybody up in the first five seconds. And now, you're art. You're not thinking about your phone. You're not talking to your friend. You're just focused on the screen so to give audiences even the option the thought in the back of their head of oh, let me check told me see what's going on. And let me Facebook, my friend. Let me post this on Instagram. I do not want that kind of environment. I want everybody locked in. We got an hour to go. Let's keep going down that our if you're like me, and you got. She just try to time at that's part of the movie magic is it you try to time it when you think you have a minute to go, and then you can get back before you miss any major plot point. It's a challenge to me to challenge the all. But I think it's a challenge worth taking and I do think that in the long run, despite the fact that a lot of people may go reload their concessions during an intermission. I think it's going to help deter chains in the long run. If you get more screenings that are less times, three hours eventers, and we're all in for absolutely. That is good to hear. Because think that's why it's probably. We're not getting. Mission. So get ready, and I see number of people in the chat room already saying just bring a catheter. Really going to swing by medical supply place. Missing the trailers, can we hurry up back there. All right saga about that other side of the comic book movie landscape, and that would be the DC extended universe. Now, there were some reports that service yesterday, the reason why we haven't gotten a man of Stu man of Stu, man. Much democracy. Chagrin is the fact that Henry Cavill has demands he'd previously did not those demands include a producer credit and the right of first refusal when it comes to who's directing him in the movie, and who is writing his lines few that they may be based on the first man of steel in the sequel and those rumors had been debunked by the team at Warner and DC they're saying that these are patently inaccurate. There's no truth to this whatsoever. This is Henry Cavill team denying these now last September T are reported that Henry Cavill was parting ways, and then that also got squashed so Haley, it's been a lot of he said she said, and now it's been a lot of here's the rumor. And then now we get a statement from either Warner Henry Cavill team debunking, and they haven't really come out and said anything to the positive of no Henry's definitely making new superman movie. They're just on the defensive right now. When a rumor comes out, they swabbed it down. And I think everybody's getting a little tired of it. Oh, yeah. Definitely. It's you know, I guess. That's sort of a symbol of the whole DC EU for the last year or so is a lot of guesswork and then rumors being shot down what's actually happening. And I would I would think that like all those other movies that this probably isn't ready to go yet. Which is why we have this delay, and whatever deals need to be made behind the scenes. It's clear that Henry Cavill wants to continue doing this. He keeps Instagram ING superman stuff like he's game. So it just you know, maybe they don't have the right script to the right foam maker. But it's. I the whole DC thing right now. Like, I love that. They're taking it more one movie at a time because the stuff is exhausting. Arkadi even I think that the the unknown status of man of steel to want to call too. I think that it actually indicates health in the future of DC and the movie properties based on comic books because they don't know what to do superman why. Because they have all these other properties that are burgeoning that people are excited about you. Have these independence thou films like the joker? You have a movie like birds of prey where we're not sure where it's going to figure into the larger landscape. We have Matt raises the Batman you have suicide squad to all of a sudden everybody's excited about that. Because James guns, directing it we have Auckland making a billion dollars exams common out. So it's maybe not the fact that oh Henry doesn't want to do. It's just that the fact that we have this mainstay from the beginning of zach's nighters DC you, and we don't know where to put him because we're having success with these other movies, right? I think that's one of the reasons that this situation is happening the way it's happening because they don't know what to do with him. They they know Cavaliers a good actor. He's got great resp-. On social media. And with the war keys done. Look at him. Everyone's excited for him on the Witcher. This this gets the most I love how he loves to play social media like you said pictures of himself recently working out next Saran stats you like what what are you doing? I thought you were out. Now, it seems like you're back in and this. There's two things that occurred to me as as reading this story one. This could be like what we've seen in sports when a athlete is leaving a team the team tries to talk a little crap about them as they're leaving. So it makes them look a little more tarnished before the oh, he's a diva demand. We had to get rid of him. He was too much didn't wanna unit when he didn't want to be part of the new DC, Hugh. And then my response is I would love it. If he demanded producer credit script approval and director, you don't why. Because as Mark said at the beginning, he's been waiting since the first man of steel movie for them who something with him where he's the star. Again, he wasn't even the star of his own technical sequel Batman pursue. But that was Batman and Affleck and Cavill has taken control of this narrative, so respect him and his team for. Being like, no, no, you're not going to push me around like athletic inter out. I'm gonna play you. You're not gonna play me and his team pushing back on that playlist report saying that he was demanding those because this ridiculous. There's no truth to it at all. And it feels to me like this is going to maybe end up with either him giving getting another movie on his terms or a kind of messy up. We're both both people cues the other being honest when we look at this on its ear. We want to believe whatever, Henry Cavill, San because we like Henry was awesome. When he double reloaded the guns in mission impossible, and he was a very good man of steel. But you're right. He got shoehorned into his own sequel way too quickly when they were trying to compete with marble for. Hey, look at the team up week and have and I think that if you green lit a man of steel to that would show me that still feeling a little squirrelly about where their future is. Now, they know where their future is. They're just trying to wedge superman into and I'd much rather have that scenario, then I would having superman movie, and then trying to figure out where do we wedge all these other movies into that? So I think that. You had to take one or the other and again apologies. All these superman fans, Mark Riley, Christian Harlow, no Yar watching. I know you want to steal to. Let's wait because I think with these other movies, they may be able to set up a better film than we would have gotten today a year ago or two years ago or five years ago when we were initially talking about when is he going to get his proper do I think it's on its way it's just going to take a lot longer than we may be expected. You guys believe we're going to see Henry Cavill in manifield sue, or do you think that it's possible that we just recast superman, and it's going to be further down the line? Because remember there is a superman movie that is in development right now. I certainly hope that we will. But it is again like I was saying all these things are so unknown right now the format and structure of the D C. You is evolving right now so much that it's really I find it a very hard thing to actually predict with any say-so. Especially when we just saw the Aflac is out, and they are going with a new younger Batman, so. If they want to brush off that whole first part, we might not get that. But I hope that's not the case. I think everybody wants him to come back. And I think that there's room for both. You can have your separate Batman movie. I don't care put Cavill in an alternate universe. And be like is different superman played by the same guy. Just making good. It is a lot easier to write in and out as superman because supermac and fly and I'm not talking like Batman fly. Which is like stumble elegantly down a building superman can fly from planet to planet galaxy to galaxy. He can go anywhere. And then he can come back when it's convenient right, right? And they want to kill them off. Once you know. So to me, I'm this is I would love to see him. Come back a thousand percent, I love man of steel two pieces. Just it just dropped on Netflix recently. So I watched it again because I haven't seen it in quite some time. And it was he's so marvelous in the role for me as it new and different superman to not bring him back would be ashamed of crime that being said, it seems to me like DC is trying to find yet again with another one of these people from Zack Snyder era, a kind of like easy painless way to make the separation happen rather than just pulling the band aid off and be like, you know, what no removing on. We're gonna recast a new superman. Look at the reaction to the new Batman. Yes. People like oh. It's a shame athlete. Didn't get his don't film who's gonna play him now, peep, that's exactly what's going to happen. If they do this correctly. I think we wanna thank Cavill. Who was incredible minister? We didn't do right by him possibly with superman. We will get it. Right. This time. Thank you for your service. Boom, you done and that way Cavill can walk away being like, okay? You know, what they at least made it up to me to a degree is not my fault. I can roll onto the next project. They'll find a new younger superman, it just makes all kinds of sense to make the move. Now. I'm going to do favors under you guys. Love this game. A nobody out there in the chat room of the play along on putting into theater, I'm putting in the multiplex vendors endgame is not playing there is no intermission. What you can go. See is any film that is in any stage of development right now from the good people at the Warner in this universe. So you can go see 'schisms going to be on them few weeks, and you can go see wonder woman nineteen Eighty-four you'll see birds of prey the joker movie, Matt Reeves Batman or man of steel to anybody going to man of steel to how high on your. Priority list. Would it be if they announced it it'd be at the recap with cavalier? It'd be at the top of my list, if they announced it, it's very the very top. Yes. Above everything else. Because I love man, still, and I would love for him to have one more shot at it without being crowded in by other heroes and without being shoehorned into his own sequel. I would love it right below it the joker movie. Absolutely. Okay. So Haley Roka's going into see man of steel to subtitle superman vs. Walking with Rocca into steel to or do you got some other movies? You're waiting to see more. This is tricky because a lot of these projects are already either made or being made. And so my interest goes to manage steel too. Because it's the it's the wild card to go. See that. Go see that might never exist. Grass is all. So yeah, I'm walking in with Rocca. And then I guess the one that does exist that most pertains to my interest is definitely birds of prey, I can't wait to see what that's all about birds of prey, for instance. Go areola says aquaman to Wayne. Czar, not I guess we kind of know there's going to be a sequel of there. But I haven't heard as many official things, and there's definitely not as many rumors and rumblings as we get through. So I can't send you that one right now franscisco Tristan says suicide squad to guy Patterson, our good friend going to see man of steel to a lot of people are is shown out for Henry right now. And a lot of people saying we're going to see Manziel to over any other movie in development the name. I'm not seeing a lot on here yet that man. Yeah. A lot of Matt Reeves Batman, maybe people are burnt out on the bat for the moment considering all the drama that'll change by the time. It comes out we give casting announcement. Yeah. And give him reasons recent history. Maybe it's announce Andy circus pointing Batman. I did forget about suicide squad with James Gunn that actually might be the one that. I'm most going over birds of prey for you. Yeah. I think so. Okay. I just after everything that went down. And I want to see how he does a whole different ensembles of weirdos in how he makes it different from guardians. And brings his spin on it. I mean, obviously, it's going to be inherently different than guardians. But just I love that. He's doing another on samba with these oddball characters from an artistic standpoint, I agree with you that it's exciting. It's not at the top of my list. But it is a point to note and Rocca as the big sports fans that we are there's nothing like seeing a good revenge game after buddy, Ben. Ceremoniously or throws a few picks. You wanna see what they do the next week? And with James Gunn. I'm not saying in the front of his mind when he's got the computer open at Starbucks right in this movie. But maybe it's back there somewhere just making those fingers go a little bit faster. It's all good about any of there's going to be. I think Perry or Amy said it this morning. There was there's going to be some meta jokes about marvel somehow Siwei the classrooms video Easter egg. Maybe it's going to be on quieter quick. Like how many times the James Gunn? References unceremonious monitoring for. City county poor Riley's just watching that movie over and over and over again gadget. Well before we get to that. We do have a movie that's coming out this weekend in theaters, and we're delighted to offer perhaps you yes, you the person. I'm looking at right now an invitation to the I max headquarters tonight to catch a lead up battle angel. Now, if you look at your watches local time, it's four twenty so well, that's a good time for everybody. You're gonna go see a battle angel. Maybe it's better after you four twenty you can wait in line. There's a standby line going on right now at max headquarters. It is I believe in Culver city. You know? I'm just going to read you the address because this is how we do things around here. One to five eighty two west millennium drive, Los Angeles, California nine zero zero nine four is where you can get in the standby dec- alita battle angel. I'm hearing good things about this movie from a cinematic STAN Christian said he dug it, but he really liked the movie making aspect of it on the big screen. So might be worth checking out. This is hosted by our own Stephen frosty Weintraub, and he's. Going to have an exclusive Q and A afterwards with producer, Jon Landau. So sounds pretty cool. If you're in that area. Go get in the line, right? After you finish watching us here at collided movie, talk battle. The battle aging is in theaters this weekend. What's not going to be for some time? Maybe ever is World War Z too. And I'm bummed because I'm excited about this movie. And then Twitter doing the good deeds. Twitter does on a daily basis reminded me that not only were we getting a sequel to the Brad Pitt zombie movie. We're also getting David fincher, directing it. And that's why at least right now the movie has been scrapped during pre production. They could not agree with venture on a number of different toppings. What it looks like? And this is from a report in the play was paramount and David fincher, not seeing I particularly over budgetary concerns that she was going to be in five different countries. It's going to be six months in Atlanta. They're saying that it's budget. But it might be that David fincher had a budget that was like way over the number already high number of around one hundred ninety million is some reports having is it was way over that. So it's a lot of money to spend even on a pretty successful franchise given that it's one movie and it came out six years ago. And it's going to be an r rated film. So you got. All the Brad Pitts in there, he want that's an expensive undertaking, regardless of what the project is named or who's involved. So John Rowe Cam the question is now are we ever going to get a World War Z to movie because some reports are saying that's conceivable that they could just bring in another director. And we've seen this before where studio doesn't see eye to eye with a big name director. So they bring in somebody that maybe they can control a little bit more and keep under budget is that the way to do World War Z two or do you scrap it altogether? I'm looking forward to Ron Howard's world wars east to I wanted to see what that looks like I'll be honest with you. No, no, no. I would be surprised if it happens. I don't see buzz for this. I don't see buzz for people who like thoroughly enjoyed that. I would want to see a sequel don't think it's this overwhelming buzz zombie walls at us Biko wanting to see this. So I would not be surprised if this never happens. It's been six years to battle. I think this would have happened by now like a Don Quixote situation, which you'll never see the light of day. There were rumors though. Eric Davis Dongo tweeted that he heard there's possibility it Mad Max sequel could be in to replace this situation. So that would be exciting. I think this is smart all around universal. They saw how well we didn't quite perform as well as they'd like to a bit of an uneven, your some positives mission possible. Something's not. So they're like, you know, what if it's north of one hundred ninety million dollars with a sequel, David fincher, who's not really known for blowing up the box office, and Brad Pitt. I wouldn't take a chance. This makes it look this FOX Disney merger makes a lot of studios hesitant to be taking bigger shots at these kinds of like projects that don't have as much buzz as other projects more on that FOX Disney merger in just a few minutes. But in the meantime Haley, I as a horror fan where do you rank World War z one, and where would you put its expectations as far as audience interest for sequel? I it's fine world. Whereas. That's right. It's a fine movie. I love the book that it's based on. And it's nothing like that. It was a very troubled production famously it had a lot of issues long way. This one seems to be following suit in that tradition. I don't know about interest in World War Z, specifically, I think the more interest was in a big budget, David fincher zombie movie, which I am devastated that we're not gonna get and David fincher needs to start making some compromises because this is like his third project. Now, that's just been brushed done. It's over and he only got so much time. David I want more of your movies. Make make them happen. David fincher zombie movies. They've adventure. And Brad Pitt redeeming again. So I think there was a lot of fan interest there, maybe more so than with the fact it's a sequel to a movie that we thought was fine six years ago. I don't I don't think World War Z is a franchise name. That's like has to be made for the studio. I think that if they can find a director who wants to come in and do it for. Half the budget, or whatever then maybe they will. Because despite the fact that the first one was kind of a mess that they had to string together to make it work. It did make a lot of money. And you know, there is brand recognition maybe not the biggest. But if you can do it for a reasonable budget. I can see why they would move forward with it eventually, but I'm just heartbroken over the David fincher zombie movie thing. That's that's a mess. The storyboards. They had for this movie. I'm gonna see if they had a money shot that was it Kintu zombie walks. I really thought that was a cool. Like, I think that I think they got a lot of butts in seats in the first one because it was in all the trailers and all the add material you saw this wall of zombies. Do you think that they had anything like that? I mean, you do wonder if every studio has this machine this computer, they can plug stuff into and say, well, if we get this star, and this director with this budget, are we gonna make our money back and World War Z. Maybe they didn't think it would play internationally as well. But I think there's a chance we still see this movie. Because paramount has a bunch of directors, and they're stable that are young that are hungry for an opportunity. I think now the onus is going to be on whether Brad Pitt's don't wants to do it and Brad Pitt's plan B production company, because if they're happy with the script, but ventures not and then is not happy with the fact that he's limitations on the budget due to paramount. Could you bring in a director that would solve all of that remains to be seen? Yeah. I mean, Michelle MacLaren, right? She's cowboy ninja Viking thing didn't that's right. So Michelle's, I would go get Michelle right now and start talking about the possibility of doing a smaller budget World War z movie. You don't need Brad Pitt. It's about the that's what selling it. So make it in another place know figure out something else that's going on that you can put that into, you know, people talking about a quiet place sequel, I propose months ago, a movie like you said it in a whole other country, and it's still happening all over the world to set it all other country. It doesn't have to be the John Krasinski store. It could be anybody. So same thing wars. He this is happening all over the world. So you can totally cast. Differently and go forward with that. That's that's an exciting thing to me. And there's no way David fincher was in pre production, intelligent and detail director is there's no way didn't have something to rival that zombie wall in his head while, you know, mapped out because they're already picking places and they already hit a budget, and they already had like a five month location shoot planned out that tells you he was knee deep into what he wanted. This look to be of the film. I hope we're going to get like a designer going on Instagram. Here's where we're going to do because I'd like to see the chat room, Justin Townes agrees with saying that the book is great my last question that then we'll move their story is Haley as the host of the witching hour. I you and delve into har- vary remarkably, well, so every week is the appetite for a zombie movie is at the same place. It was six years ago when we were already into a couple of seasons of the Walking Dead, and we had a fair amount zombie moves, do you think that the appetite is changed or lessened? We get to coming out. I feel like that. Because there's such a comedic element to that. That almost is a different genre than what we would get with the World War Z. So do we still want zombie movies? I don't know. It's an interesting question. I think about it actually a lot because we when I was like really coming up and becoming a hardcore film nerd that was during this zombie boom of the early two thousands where we had a ton of them. And that's the first zombie land arrived on the heels of that sort of encapsulated that new movement and zombies World War Z was an outlier a little bit because it was good number of years after that trend like you said after a couple of seasons of the Walking Dead, which I do think kind of killed his armies, John as we know it for a while would have been seasoned to the most boring season two Walking Dead. Yeah. Yeah. So I I don't know that there is a hunger for Zambia's yet. But I think that something like zombie land to could. Spark it back up again could restart the trend, and if that's a huge success men. Maybe that's when this moves forward with a smaller director or something. But I do think about this a lot we still get Saami movies. But they're very different. Now, they're like emotional stories set with an an apocalypse that have very few actual zombies in them. It's like, I think it was volt or call them like Imos, ambi- movies or something. This words in one. Maggie. Yes. Yes. That's exactly what I'm talking about. They're all these character dramas within zombie films. That aren't actually on me movies. But I think that if one comes along, and does it really well again, then people will want to see more zombies always want, eat brains Roca. Do you want zombie movie? Yeah. I've been getting back into them through four Mark is like nitrogen to Bussan. I finally saw that a few months ago, and then Kingdom I saw trailer for kingdom the Netflix. And I'm like, oh, I got to see this series set. It was futile times. I think and then zombies are coming out of the water where they buried or thrown chains around people and put them into the water serves mini go. So to me, I'm like, that's such an unusual place to put zombies futile. I think it's Japan Korea down in that time. Like, oh, this is interesting. So I think the taste for zombie movies or Zambia content will always be there because of what zombies represent in a social aspect. But also in a fear aspect of this idea of the dead. I think that will always be there. It's just going to have to. It's just going to need like inventive. Interesting directors or creators and writers to bring new stories that are related to life. We're going to save some time for your wife Twitter questions at the end of this show, go and start to Innis right now at collider video use the hashtag Carter movie talking. Then at the end will have a quick announcement before we get to all of that. There's an article that came out in how a reporter today that we wanted to highlight because it mentions the other side of the Disney acquisition of FOX the Disney FOX merger. It's exciting because maybe we get wolverine. And as soon as the vendors and game, but the downside to it. As the teach article noted today is that as many or possibly as little as four thousand employees are going to get laid off as a result of this merger. This is particularly because. There's a lot of overlapping jobs between Disney and FOX particularly in the worlds of marketing in publicity sales. Acquisitions, those kind of things Disney has people that do then they they acquire a lot of stuff. So what's going to happen to people have those same jobs at FOX? Well, they may be out of work. And it's something that I wanted to highlight simply because we don't always think about that kind of things and some estimates have that four thousand number reaching five to ten thousand when all is said and done. So look, I'll be honest with you FOX was not a healthy company when Disney acquired it because they were bleeding money. They were considering bankruptcy at various points in the recent history. And this is no one person's fault that we have to lose all these jobs because Disney's acquiring it. Disney thinks that they can rehabilitate some of these properties, maybe give more people work down the road. But Roquette is a very scary prospect to think that we get our movies and were excited about all these things under one house. But when you consider the monopolistic aspect. Of Disney has been doing it's causing a lot of job loss. I don't know if those jobs would have stayed had FOX remained independent seems like FOX's willing to sell it to somebody. They found it very willing bitter in Disney, but those jobs are going to be law. Yeah. After the initial excitement of this merger dies down. Because of what how the characters we might be getting now all under the banner. I think this is the reality of the situation a couple of friends who work over at FOX one is an executive at box. We've spoken about this in person and text originally as today when this was put on the movie talk gonna go, and what they tell me is this feeling of fear that permeates the walls and the feeling of like not knowing what's going to happen getting the emails that say, oh, everything's gonna be fine. This is Bob Eiger telling you, we we, you know, this is the way we're changing the company to be Bubba. But then you hear the news that look they're chain. They're not gonna they're only going to release four films four five films under the FOX banner when they had been releasing more. Than that before this idea of trying to compete with streaming services who is going to get involved in who's not going to give all the who is surplus to needs depending on departments and all this. And I think it was interesting about the articles. They spoke about Disney hasn't consumed a studio, they've consumed other properties other things of that nature. But they haven't consumed to studio. So this is this is a whole new ballgame that they don't have a blueprint on how to go about it. So to me, there's a lot more carnage here that's going to be coming in in the days and months ahead. And it's unfortunate for a lot of those people are going to lose jobs, but the severance packages do seem fair from what we read in the article in the end, though, if you can't find another job past the severance package. That's where the fear really creeps in. Yeah. And hey, we've seen a number of high level is operatives at FOX have already left to take jobs at places like Netflix, which as we were reporting on as early as this week that Netflix appears to be positioned to take that sixth major studio block in Hollywood. But FOX Louis. Using not only itself to Disney, but also all of these jobs. How does that hit you? Oh, man. It's a bummer if if you guys didn't read the full article, it's do it's very interesting. What it was like the most depressing ring. It. I'm kind of always been the person who is like ever since. This was first announced like, yeah, it's cool that the X men can be with the adventures. But this is a this is a bummer thing for a lot of people. And it's a weird very dramatic shift for the industry that will probably be talking about and figuring out the repercussions of like five years from now. And when it comes to like, how it's going to affect the release schedule things like that that you mentioned, you know, we heard recently that new mutants could go to Hulu because Disney will also have control of Hulu. Now, that's these are all kinds of weird distribution strategies that we probably will not have seen before from Disney that are going to be very surprising, especially with Disney plus coming along at the same time. Honestly, how do I feel about it? It makes me very anxious. Mark, thanks me. It makes me anxious and curious and nervous. So my mental health is great to ethics. We're asking. Well, it's something that look I'm as guilty. This is anybody's that. You forget to. About when the bottom line is we get this property acquired by them. We're all worried about well. Deadpool still going to be rated R is are we still going to get an alien or predator reboot? Let's let's also just remember that these are people with jobs who may not have jobs much longer because of this acquisition. So we get our we get our entertainment, and it's as spoon fed to us these days as it ever has been, but that does come at a cost and when everything is United under one house. It may seem hunky Dory from the outside. There's a lot of people that did not get into that house. And so I think it's worth noting on a show movie talk that for all the celebration and trust me, a movie talk. We get very excited about a lot of characters in one movie in different team ups and all these things happening. We should remember that there are people who are not so excited because they fear for their very job. We're going to move onto your life Twitter questions. But before we do that. I do what her mind y'all about all the cool program that we have tomorrow on collider and auto episode of the Riley round table. It seems like that guy. Does this show every day Mark Riley is working a little too hard? Maybe he's doing it. Because he's putting. The blinders on, and he just doesn't want to acknowledge the managerial to isn't happening. We're not sure maybe they'll talk about that on tomorrow's rally roundtable also have collider live now it's five days a week. Tune in at ten AM in the P T. Jed eye counsel is also going to be on moving talk, of course, at four PM and the quieter games podcast is also going to be tomorrow full stack day as we usually do day in and day out around these parts here at collider video it's out of some live Twitter questions, and because I've seen so many people pitching their version of Mansfield too. Because we talked about earlier I'm going to I'm going to give a highlight to one and that would be our friends Skype Patterson, great fan sky wants to know what we think about Patty Jenkins and Taylor shared teaming up director writer team up there with collaborating on the story and the story would be Cavill returns as superman and it's superman and supergirl battling common enemy. Do. We have a green light. Keep in mind sky loves the show. I'm on the combination because Sheridan's scripts are a really great and rawal emotionally unsettling. So this would be a new kind of a man of steel already dour as L them, you know, and kind of darker than you than the Richard Donner version. So you go with Taylor. This is an interesting choice, of course, Patty, Jenkins green light with everything. No problem there. But I think if you're going to put the super and superman together and explore their relationship. You gotta throw brainiac as the villain in there. Just makes all the sense of the world because the connections he's Ed with both. Plus, if you look at Justice society of America would have a brainiac five all this thing. So there's a lot of history between the superman family and brainiac. So that would be to me the way to go. I think it's a fascinating idea. I Taylor Sheridan would never have entered my mind ever for this kind of thing. But he does such a good job of tapping into the Solta sort of old fashioned. Marikana that feels very much like the Kent farms type of lifestyle. So I'm into it. Yes. Green light, do it. I'll watch it. I love it. What am I going to be the Debbie Downer? Now. Very exciting. Spate of exciting news. We just got this tweet from Debbie Schachter is another great fan. And I've seen this a couple of different places. And we wanted to highlight that our very own Jeff Snyder has some late breaking news here. And that is Scott teams is in talks right now to write the script for Halloween too. As we're did. You think we weren't getting a Halloween sequel come on we're getting a Halloween state when it might be written by Scott teams who has a number of credits on his resume not just from. He's actually directed moves. He's not in talks to direct. He's not talks for anything. But to write the script at this point. So he wrote the screenplay for his own film that he directed the evening sun. He's done a bunch of episodes of rectify of narcos. I think the most recent episode he wrote he wrote one of those. So just the fact we're getting Scott teams Hateley or the fact that we have a Halloween to moving in production. You get excited for a new one. Oh, yeah. I there was never doubt that it was going to happen really unless there was some impossible deal that blunt house couldn't make for some reason. But even I think he just did around of interviews for. Desk day where he was like I'm trying I'm trying. I it's great. I don't know what to make of the writing situation. It's interesting it sounded like when Halloween came out that David Gordon green really wanted to do a sequel. Now it sounding like maybe he's not going to. That's an interesting switch and change in the creative team that I would be interested to eventually learn the behind the scenes story of if that's what comes to pass. I don't really know. This guy's writing work that well, but if bloom house trust him, they tend to have pretty good judgment house tapping the right Roka's this one of those studios where the fact that they have interest in a writer is enough to give you interest in the movie that right? Oh, yeah. I think bloom house has a lot of cachet right now with a lot of filmgoers. So sure absolutely take a chance. My concern is I hope they don't wreck on this one out if they go to thirty years down the road. Go back go, you know, what are these other sequels happened either? So we're gonna start from this one. Like, they did this time around. Wasted effort. And it doesn't ends up being wreck on it. But I like the end the David Gordon green things interesting point. He'll did they decide like, well, look, you know, some of the reviews weren't as well as we would like to maybe let's move on from me or maybe they heard David Gordon Green's pitch. And I don't think that's the direction we want to go in. I don't know. But blunt house as I said, the beginning here has a lot of cachet. So I trust their decision making process with something like this. I can't James digital service says why isn't Riley on this episode. He wants to see his managerial -tupid. He's out in the alley. Yelling anybody here right now. Sure whose dog has heard the latest rewrite city has more on that as it develops. Our last question is from better call mall and mall says avatar to is set for December two thousand twenty and appetizer three set for December two thousand twenty one would Warner Brothers release aquaman to against an avatar. And if so this my Anna, and so who is winning the box office is in avatar from. Way back in the dark ages of the two thousand nine to aquaman, which just made a billion dollars worldwide. What say all I think that would be foolish to try to release it at the same time as avatar. Because they are. As I would think it'd be foolish for release fame time as avatar because those dates have kind of been staked out for a while. Now, they could change. Sure. But there's such both are such bright fantasy films that they would absolutely be competing for the same audience. And yes avatar is older. But it's still the box office goat like nobody has beat. What is like two point eight million or something it made worldwide? I don't know if the interest is still holding up, but I do know that the one person in my life who loves avatar is ready to go like has not changed. John rocca. You aren't the biggest fan of. The movie did do very well didn't know that you can be a bottom line dollars cents guy. You're shopping at trader Joe's for crying out loud and come on. So what's doing better which one should back off of their release safer? Yeah. I would I would if it was going to do that. I think that would be a mistake as well. I think James Cameron and avatar is a one two punch. That's really tough to no disrespect James wanted what he's able to do but cameras making billion dollar films for quite some time. James one just got here with one of those like, you know, James James knows what to do. And look something like a leader. That's a bit uneven. There's no way he didn't have a lot of say in the production value, and the look of that film, which is really the selling point for me. And so I would love to see what he does with avatar and my own personal thing. I have an ex girlfriend who is one who is one of the body doubles for all all those movies. So it was talking about some sort of personal. I got tentacles man. I got tentacles. Anyway, I I think I think this is the thing at the end of the day is like I just feel like it would be dangerous for. Do that. And why would you want my make the fans choose when let us enjoy both instead of having to choose one of these SCO seat, both no law that says specially for you want and you can't really afford it on the same weekend. Most like average movie goers can't be like I have forty dollars to go. See movies, all the sharp at trader Joe's, whole foods thing back at my favorite foods, billionaires mile, Mark. I don't like it. But I do like changing brokers schmo down nicknamed from the outlawed to the octopus. Because. Everywhere. Well, I promise you all and announcement, and it may come as a surprise the summit, you it certainly bittersweet for me say we have tens of thousands of people to watch the show every day. So I'm sure dozens of you will be disappointed with the news that tomorrow is going to be my last day as your host of collider movie talk. I can say this without hesitation it's been an honor to captain your ship for the last two. I can't remember when I was able to take over for the great John Campion, but I will first of all SRI all of this movie talk in great hands going forward. There's a lot of different iterations that are being talked about right now, but rest assured movie talk is safe and sound and in the best places ever been right here at collider studios. Now, the reason for my leaving it just boils down to the fact that I am a very hardworking guy despite how many naps I'd take. And I've had a few breaks go my way. And there's a lot of opportunities that I want to explore not the we the least of which is my upcoming stand up comedy special taping touring doing schmo downs doing a lot of other things that I have in the works right now. And so. So when I talked to the brass last week about movie talk, I think we came to the mutual agreement that it's best that tomorrow be my last day. I was extended an invitation to come back anytime to collider, and I would certainly enjoy taking y'all up on that. Maybe we come up with a project in the future. Maybe that could be one of these opportunities that I'm mentioning, but I did want to let you all know and try not to surprise you too much. But I see the chat room now. And you guys are being very kind to me, and I do want to say thanks to Haley fast because he won't be onto the show tomorrow. But thank you for being such a great panelists. I want to thank John Rocca. You've or being a great panelist you here tomorrow. I am here tomorrow. Right. So you know about all this. This is. This is no offense, Wendy, but I think I'm taking the beer before. This is this is very flattering. I didn't expect any of this. I mean, I thank you guys so much this entire team here at collider. It feels not giving them enough phrase to call them at team because this really is a families, you can tell birthday cake, and they just got me. I didn't really want this to be wak- Kobe Bryant eighty two game. Farewell tour is preferred the Tim Duncan model of this my last game. Thanks. I'm going to be out. But I will be back tomorrow. And I will say goodbye to y'all at that time. But once again, I reiterate how great all the talent that I get to be surrounded with a elevate my level of MIR mediocrity and that extends to everyone behind the camera. Not the least of which is Mr Adam Smith at. Yup. Areas. Sure is going to help me drink these bears. As soon as we get thrown to the wide to say goodbye. Thank you guys so much for tuning into quite a movie talk each and every day, I will see all tomorrow with Rocca and Perry, and we'll say goodbye and movie talk is going to continue to ship on from there as well. I, but you have not seen the last to make until tomorrow. Tune in tomorrow, four PM in the P two I'm going to try to blow these candles out that setting studio and five. Hi, it's Jamie, progressive's employee of the month two months in a row. Leave a message at the. Hi, jamie. It's me, Jamie. I just had a new idea for our song about the name your price tool. So when it's like tell us what you want to pay. Hey, the trombone goes, blah, blah, blah. And you say we'll help you find coverage options to fit your budget. Then we just all do finger snaps while a choir goes, savings coming at ya. Savings coming at you. Yes. No. Maybe. Anyway, see you practice tonight. I got new lyrics for the rap break. Progressive casualty insurance company and affiliates. Price and coverage match limited by state law. Trump on Syria. I'm Ed Donahue with an AP news minute. President Trump says getting US troops out of Syria. Doesn't mean the fight is over against the Islamic state group. You can't do better than we've done military early. But you will have people. That will be around. And we'll search him out and you'll search him out and we'll find him, and hopefully, they won't be around very long. There are fears withdrawing forces from Syria could imperil gains against the militants there. And in neighboring Iraq, a caravan of sixteen hundred Central American migrants is surrounded by Mexican authorities in an old factory a short distance from Texas, they hope to seek asylum, but appears to have a fate and chance officials in a small Zona border city are decrying the installation of a new razor fencing that. Now covers the entirety of a tall border fence around downtown in Milwaukee, a seventeen year police veteran was shot and killed while trying to serve a warrant becoming the city's third officer killed in line of duty and eight months, I'm Ed Donahue.

Henry Cavill superman Disney Haley director David fincher Mark Riley John Rocca Twitter Brad Pitt trader Joe producer California Roca Matt Reeves Warner Brothers Netflix
Free Patreon Bonus: MANK (2020) w/ special guest Sydney Stern

Classic Movie Musts

54:02 min | 6 months ago

Free Patreon Bonus: MANK (2020) w/ special guest Sydney Stern

"I'm max baril. This is classic. Movie must double feature where every week. We break down a more recent movie destined to be thought of as a classic. That's right you heard me. This is classic movie must double feature so let me give you a little bit of back story to this episode. First of all of this december has an extra week in it. So i wanted to share with our entire listener community an episode of our double feature show now typically classic movie must double feature is a patriotic exclusive show that is accessible for one dollar a month for at one dollar you get at least four episodes per month but this is a very special episode. We have a very special guest and a special film and so i wanted to make this available to everybody but please consider supporting classic. Movie must through patriot. Patriotic dot com slash classic. Movie musts. And you can get this weekly exclusive podcast as well as our monthly exclusive podcast. Maxes movie musts for the very reasonable price of just one dollar per month again. You can do that at patriotic dot com slash classic movie. Must i hope you enjoy this episode of double feature. Because this week we are talking about manque and in this episode in our feature presentation we welcome back author sydney stern to the show writer of the book. The brothers mankiewicz hope heartbreak and hollywood classics. Who better to help discuss this new david fincher film but first. Let's get into this week's opening credits. Our film. this week is manque which was directed by david fincher and was released in twenty twenty manque. Stars gary oldman and features amanda siegfried and lily collins. As well as artless howard. Tom pelfrey and charles dance in nineteen forty. Orson welles is given complete creative freedom for his next project by arco studios in victorville california. Herman j mankiewicz is recovering from a broken leg. He sustained in a car accident. He receives a phone call from wells who has recruited him to write the screenplay for his new film. Herman dictates the script to his secretary. Rita alexander who writes it down noticing similarities between the main character and william randolph hearst in nineteen thirty paramount studios herman and other writers speak to david sales neck. And joseph von sternberg about a film they are writing. Herman heads to a film location where he and the female lead mary. Davies recognize each other. She introduces him to hearst her benefactor and lover who takes a liking to hermit back in nineteen forty producer john houseman grows concerned that herman's dense linear screenplay is too complicated for most audiences to follow rita more parallels between herman's characters and people in the movie industry in one thousand nine hundred four herman and his brother. Joseph work at mgm under louis b. mayer. Who is concerned with studio finances. Joseph calls herman to voice concern that the new screenplay anger hearst back in nineteen thirty-three herman and his wife sarah mayors birthday party at hearst castle. With many hollywood bigwigs they discuss nazi germany and california politics including gubernatorial candidate upton sinclair. Herman goes for a walk with marian where they discussed the film industry and politics houseman is concerned about how long it will take to write the script and fears that he and herman will be fired. Wells has finished his work on heart of darkness and will now be turning his full attention to the new project. Rita is also concerned with the tiny of the writing as well as herman's alcoholism in one thousand nine hundred four. Herman continued work. With mgm studio executives including irving thalberg used the studio to work against sinclair's campaign for governor of california as others are organizing the screen writers guild in nineteen forty hermit finishes the screenplay housman is impressed but concerned about hearst's reaction to the main character back in nineteen thirty four. Mgm produces films for a smear campaign against sinclair hearst his funding the smear so herman approaches marian to get the film's pulled but as she is leaving the studio for warner brothers. Herman is unsuccessful. In one thousand nine forty charles lederer picks up the screenplay to deliver to the studio in one thousand nine hundred four. Herman and sarah attendant election night watch party at the trocadero nightclub. Where mayor announces the winner. Frank merriam joseph visits hermann in nineteen forty after reading the screenplay and is now even more concerned about hearst's reaction and its effects on marian. He also believes. It's the finest thing that herman has ever written in. Nineteen thirty four hermits colleague director shelley. Metcalf commit suicide diagnosed with parkinson's disease and having to make propaganda films for mariam even though he supported sinclair back in nineteen forty. Marianne does her best persuade herman to change the screenplay but to no avail. She tells herman that she will try to stop the picture from getting made in nineteen thirty six. Herman attends gulberg. Funeral in nineteen thirty. Seven herman crashes a party at hearst castle where he drunkenly the film. He writes in nineteen forty offending mayor and the others until only he. And hearst remain. Hearst tells him an allegory about a monkey and the organ grinder and sees him out wells visits herman and offers him a buyout from the studio. However herman wants credit for the script believing it to be the best thing he has ever written wells' upset and tells hermit that he has gone to bad for him he leaves angrily in nineteen forty two herman and wells win the academy award for best original screenplay for citizen kane. Now i hope you're night was not plagued with spirits because it's time for our feature presentation joining us for today's feature presentation her return to the show. No less sydney stern author of the book. The brothers mako. It's hope heartbreak and hollywood classics sydney. Welcome back to the show thank you. It's great to be back city. I can't imagine why we have you on for this episode. I mean it's a total mystery to me. I know i know isn't it funny And this is. I mean this is kind of a unique thing for me. This is the first time even For our double feature show are talk about more recent movies. The first time. I've ever talked about a movie on the show the year in which it came out usually like to really have time to mull it over. But i've seen a few times and i am. I feel very confident in saying that. This is a film that we will be watching and discussing for many years to come. How do you feel about it kind of big picture like that. Well first of all. I am so unbiased. I'm so not biased. I'm so close to it that i have no perspective on it. I just love it. And i sort of wallow in There's so much that is in my book not not from my book because it was not written by. It was not an adaptation of my book but so many of the same lines are there so many of the scenes there that it was surreal. The first time i saw. Maybe the second time to that was exactly going to be my question to you. I have to imagine after you've poured so much of yourself into this amazing book. He wrote that it's got to be surreal that it comes to the screen in such a way But i mean i could see you being not biased. Either way obviously depending how it turned out. I'm so glad to hear that for you. It's everything you could've kind of hoped it could be. I would say in a way. It's more because what what cinema people can do is create things that come off two dimensional page and leap up onto the screen that affect you in so many ways and i don't know whether had been color i would have had such an intense reaction when it seems so to me to be time travel for me yeah It does have a i got. I imagine a time travelling quality. And i think the black and white absolutely stunning cinematography was the only way to go Really it had to be and you know. I mean from my perspective thinking about you this in your book and this movie one of this movie has so many great lines but one that of course jumped out at me right away is is when herman says that you know two hours is not enough time to convey the life of a man. You only hope to leave the impression of one. And that's where it's so fun i think to me have you on the show because this movie gives us the impression but your book gives us the life of the man and so to have both of those things complementing each other It gives us such a full robust and artistic insight into you know this kind of amazing figure in our in our history of motion pictures. Yes i mean. We don't know how closely captured everything about him. But from what i know is very authentic and clearly david fincher cared very much about capturing the truth as far as he could see it about herman. Even though there's fictional elements. I think it's it's very true. At least that was my reaction. Well that's great. I mean it. It struck me that way. And there's this. I mean there's so many re watching it now a few times. I really don't think that there's a part of the film that drags i think every key segment whether it's in one thousand nine hundred forty or in the various flashback segments. They are also well paced so well-structured You know it's obviously for us. You know people like us who are so An knowledgeable about film history and care so much about it. There's so many references that we appreciate. But i don't. It's necessarily an entirely a insiders movie so to speak. Where do you come down that. Well i do not consider myself a contextual movie history expert i only consider myself a herman expert at so. I see references in visual references. But i'm sure i missed a lot. What i have wondered is how will it play. How will it affect people. Who don't have that background. And i don't know i mean i know so much i it's sort of like an old look. Oh look he did that he did that. You know the people. Who don't have that. I hope it's still affecting character portrait of a man too close to know so. I'm curious from your perspective. Obviously i think this movie does as as herman says in. The movie gives us the impression of the life of a man by focusing on the specific moments. In time. it does given what you know about. You know herman as you say being the herman expert you are. How do you feel about the choice to kind of zoom in obviously very specifically in the writing process of citizen kane but then mixing in you know of a fairly wide array of flashbacks throughout the nineteen thirties. Does that both in terms of just this film itself as well as what you know about his life. How do you feel about that choice and that structure. While i think that the i i love the structure reminiscent of citizen k right or it's the same kind of thing except the flashbacks in citizen kane are to show you different points of other people's views of of charles kane whereas these are all through herman's mind so were were sort of It's herman's point of view. I think choosing the time when he's writing this screenplay is perfect because that's the inflection point. Being the point of the movie is a portrait of a man who accidentally fell into history. By taking this writing assignment for the money and then ending up writing a movie that became historic an iconic et cetera. So this is is. I thought it was a great moment to to choose to show him. Even though i think people some people have said you know it's it's not very interesting to watch somebody writing. But but it the the scenes where he's at the ranch he's always interacting with somebody. So you know you're getting more about him in those scenes as well and as far as going back it was interesting. Because one of my tasks i thought as biographer was to try to understand why herman was so self destructive and with the drinking and the gambling and the mouthing off and getting himself fired and they just the screenwriter and director in the people for the movie didn't have that burton they just took it as here was an alcoholic. Self-destructive guy to whom this happened. You know he had this brilliant and he made this beautiful script it so in that way they were free of that particular burden right and then going back and choosing the scenes. Yes i mean. I think again you were showing different parts of him. And there were the fictional elements that were used. I believe to provide him with a motive to write the screenplay in in a negative way about hearst. But that's not really why he wrote it that way but i think for movies purposes for the film's story. That was a very valid choice. I didn't have a problem with it. Yeah that's that's very interesting to hear. I'm for the sake of our audience Can can you help shuttle light in the way. The film doesn't in terms of what what did fuel because you're right that we don't really get a sense other than perhaps you know. Being a tortured artist or man at the quote at the end of the film is very powerful ratnam as repairing it so that he can never escape right but Can you help us understand what did kind of fuel it to the best that we are that you understand. Well you mean in my real version for the real man. Yeah i mean you know kind of the background right. The real version was that herman was a a lover of history and politics and and newspapers and he had been a newspaper man and he was well aware of hearst and actually in his newspaper days when he was also a theater critic in new york from nineteen twenty to nineteen twenty six he was a riding place and he had started a screen play about hearst which he never finished so he was always interested in this man who had gone from an idealistic left wing sort of person to what he became which was a more conservative right-wing yellow journalist so it wasn't as if he was out to get hearst. He just found him very fascinating historical political figure and then a lot and so am he had also done at least one screenplay john means woman where it was a man who died in. You had this kaleidoscopic view of him up so the structure was there and the person was there although according to wells they didn't start with hearst idea of doing this structure and then they thought about different people settled on hearst. Which don manque with said to me. I've always felt it was a coin that pocket. You know the any finally spin moving that this was a wonderful topic so it was not that he was out to get him he was out to portray this remember all the collecting the fabulous collecting sensitive radio. He's he's a story character. He's a larger than life character even though he was real. So they're right. And then the the marian part of that was one element i. I really wonder how people who don't know citizen came overreact. Because the movie assumes. I think that you realize that the script screenplay is written depicts marion davies in a negative way because it does although if you go back to citizen kane. Susan is a lovely young innocent ignorant kind of young woman that hearst the cane ruins by trying to make her something that she's not an opera singer and then she gets mad and even at the end when she's when she's gonna leave and she softens because he seemed so sad and then he says how can you do it to me and she goes. It's all about you leaves. So she's really depicting the screenplay is depicting what her stood to the real marian davies career which is tried to thrust her into serious roles when she was a wonderful comedian. It wouldn't let her have a pie in the face. There was some comedy that she wanted to do. It wouldn't let it happen. So it was that act on marian and not really negative portrayal right and i mean so so much of the film. You know the flashback sequences. It does delve into this relationship. Between herman and marian their scenes together are Are so fun to watch. Yes they are magical there well put and of course later in the film herman's wife. Sarah says that she's tolerated for years. His platonic affairs as silly platonic. How she put it. Can you help shed a little light. Exactly what i mean. What fueled these relationships that we do see between herman and the women around him but that does it does seem or at least in the film sake is not Romantic per se but just a little insight into those relationships whether it's marion or the other women that kind of feature throughout right well. It's interesting because that word. Platonic came out of the original biography of herman which was written by richard merriman. Nineteen seventy eight. And i say in my book. I don't know whether all his affairs when he was young. In new york he always knew a lot of actresses. You know a lot of stuff went on. And i don't know whether they were all platonic. Although i think with all the drinking and gambling et cetera. He was very busy and it was big energy. Sapper so how much energy he had to vote to Actual affairs i. I don't know. But i think the platonic word might have been a sop to sarah the real sarah because she was a source for mary. Men's book. So i've never. When i asked don frank herman sons when i interviewed a lot for the book. Do you think he ever had real affairs and on different occasions both of them said yes and no play no but unlike his brother joe who always was in love and always having a having affairs and it was a big part of his life. That's not really herman's main dissipation. And he did like he did. Have these friendships with actresses. I mean he loved louis brooks for example the actress that he tended to like or smart difficult in terms of studio sometime so his wife was maybe not his intellectual equal but she was an intellectual person and That was what herman responded to. And and i think they created in marian you know it's more than once he says in the movie i'm now talking about mag. You're smarter than look. You're smarter than people think you are. You know that is herman value. I think the a all the young women around him humor gorgeous figures to they're beautiful. I doubt if they were that beautiful real life. Although mary was very pretty but Yeah i mean he's funkier right he. He's very controlled. The scene where he and marion that beautiful scene in the moonlight. They're walking around since me and and it ends with her head on his shoulder. It's just so sweet and update those. I mean those sequences really highlight the absolute beautiful cinematography. I mean differences. They really obviously were being transported back in time. There are flashbacks but they are right out of fairy tale amidst this complete fairytale setting that is san simeon Those sequences i mean. Yeah you could just watch them all day. By the way. I have no idea of hand marian where really that close i she was. She was a very warm thoughtful giving bubbly kinda person. I loved the way. Amanda safer played her the way the movie. But i don't know that she. Herman had a lot of time like that right. Yeah and of course. I mean these are. These are the the dramatic. You know things that were said embrace for exactly licenses that we embrace for movie and and you know as herman says in the movie you know we check our. We suspend our disbelief at the door. And that comes with Pros and cons but it does allow us to get lost in this narrative this story and and of course as always your book is there to help guide us when we when we actually wanna learn more after the fact which turns to another side of this story that i'm curious to get your opinion on. Obviously you say you're you're quite biased. Y- this is the subject that you chose for yourself to really help bring to to everyone else not to say that Herman megawatts would have been lost to history in any way but your book. This movie help elevate his stature in such a way that you know we we watch this movie and we god you know this this kind of tragic hero of a man. Who was the smartest guy in the room but often to his own detriment and then at the same time the film really kind of structures as his counterpoint. S- figures like orson welles and paul berg even louis b. mayer. But you know these men whose legendary status we really do associate with classical. Hollywood first and foremost and more so in the case of wells in salzburg like history has kind of told us that these men are the tragic heroes of our industry and then this movie casts it all in a slightly different light. And i'm curious how you feel about that. Well i would say yes. I think the moving makes him more of a tragic hero than i would. You know kind of heroic. He's gary oldman. Is herbert so yeah. It's a little more noble. Although in my chapter where. I kill off herman. I must admit i often cried. I was editing. It you know just because there were so many letters that poured out and they were so touching about what hermit meant to them and what a tragic waste of a wonderful mind. It was that he threw so much so much away and expended so much of himself being witty in person and not writing more of blessing value. So yes he was tragic and perhaps a little heroin but Thalberg and welzer are giants permanent is untold story. Perhaps less stole story. Yes but i don't think it diminishes the other two in wells. I think i've seen Critiques about wells of part in the movie. And i don't think he's short changed. I don't think the point is who wrote citizen kane. It's an icon. Ick movie because of orson welles and i usually call it orson welles citizen kane to to make it clear that i'm not trying to claim anything for herman that belongs to wells tone but the wells presence is herman's encounters with wells within the story. Not what wells went on to do with his three hundred and twenty five page first draft. Yeah i love that point. Because i i think you know. Early films new. It's fresh and i think people were perhaps hoping for Maybe more of the drama of you know correcting history and taking something away from wells and giving it in its rightful place it. It's really not what this movie is about And yeah to get to get caught up in the You know setting things straight or trying to give credit where credit's due kind of misses the whole point You know there's this. I mean there's heartbreaking quality to it in one of the amazing one of those great as you say his wittiness especially early in the film the the punds just roll out of herman like no tomorrow but when he speaks with louis b. mayer and irving thalberg at the tent. And before i guess he approaches and thalberg says He's just a writer. Yeah and it is. It's both you know it's not true and it is obviously here. He is and we're we're watching this movie in decades upon decades later and he transcends history and at the same time compared to some of these other men he is just a writer so to speak. And it's kind of learning to distance yourself from that idea and at the same time embrace it. I guess well. I thought it was. A movie was very economical. As as movies can be in transmitting a lot of ideas quickly. The the spitballing seen in the beginning when the paramount riders go in and pitch. This made up silly movie today. Itself snick although they those big names ben. Hecht george kaufman. Charles macarthur promo would not have been in the room together at that time working under herman but it was just a fun thing to do to get these Recognizable faces and do the spitballing kind of thing where they've something up and basically they were making fun of the producer and the process so that was the riders feeling superior and then you jumped too few scenes later when louis mayor or auburn stalberg system marriages to writer and that dismisses the importance of a they might think they're important and they're desperately trying to maintain their sense of their own worth in the light of this system that constantly. Demeans what they do and and particularly you know they have that little interchange about sequentially versus all at the same time you miss cogs in a machine so thought that that was very cleverly done to show the sort of side of the writers point of view in the systems point of view about right. Yes yes no question. That is an excellent point. I mean the film does have its moments of really kind of putting things in their place. not least of which is a scene that i don't know if you read it this way or it was just kind of my reading of it but when we go to irving thalberg funeral Sequentially in the story again. I believe it's the first flashback since shelley metcalf commits suicide and to me when we first reached that moment. U i at least thought were at shelley metcalfe's funeral and you you very quickly learn no irving thalberg funeral and you realize that 'cause there's at least for me in this that split second when we get there so this is really you know everyone turned out and that's quite something and you kind of realize we'll probably shelley met cast. General wasn't like this. This is paul berg's funeral and again it just putting those pieces in their place. Kind of d- designating the hierarchies But showing of the dark side of it all and then of course we get the kind of the conversation that follows it. would you know. He hasn't a conversation with cells neck about coming to visit him. I already tried and you turn me away. The kind of the the double faced side of the industry. That's you I think we get kind of that. Glimpse in those sequences per say yes. That was a fabulous inner. Change of you know when he catches him out. Yeah you already said okay. Have i stay Just saying okay. You have no power. When i saw that huge congregation did sort of assume it was over. But that's a really interesting idea. And i bet more than one person up was going to be the next follow up to the shelley story. Yeah i think if you're obviously obvious. I know paul burke died well before you know he he should have and it's only but it's only kind of lightly intimated at that point that he has You know had any health issue so it is kind of out of nowhere and we do come from. Shelley's death not long before which is. Its own heartbreaking. Turn of events I just think you know it's just that again. That slight misdirection. Just to kind of check you a little bit and you say oh no okay You know it's an interesting point. I mean because i think the the last saying at herman has with oberg was very important because dollberg says he among the things he says when herman goes to try to him to not do the fake news spots and he says something about within his speech he says i don't have the time and so everybody who knows movie history knows that you know he was this dude man with a bad heart and everybody knew it was going to die. Young at louis mayor even told us his daughter. Don't get interested in him. He's not gonna last long typical kind of mayor reaction. But the that little scene is when paul burke says to herman i know who i am and i don't consider myself slumming an i come to work. You know i'm. I'm proud of it and think what you all could do. If you took pride in your work something like that. It was very defining to me of herman and his ilk thought that was a very important speech in a very important Moment in the movie to me any definition absolutely. I mean those scenes and i think of i guess a few. They are such a captivating moments. You know there's. Herman does think of himself as the smartest man in the room but when he does Come up against those. Who out outrank him. And though they might not necessarily be smarter per se. They're perhaps playing the game. Better and though scenes are so captivating one the ones you mentioned that kind of the two parts seen of him with hallberg surrounding the upton sinclair donations and then You know the the fallout after the fact Which you mentioned and then of course the two scenes that are such I think great mirrors of themselves. And it's one being louis. B. mayer and his Marched through the studio while educating really joseph. Mako it's at saying just love it. Yes so we can talk about that scene as well in-depth but his scene of kind of the knowledge. He's imparting of all the things you should not forget. And then conversely which a scene that almost follows geographically the same pattern of hearst telling herman about the organ. Grinders the parable of the organ. Grinder's monkey as he's escorting him out. And you have these two figures. I mean these kind of titanic figures above herman quits kind of importing their wisdom but this both scenes are so great in the way that they capture the the style the physicality of the person conveying that the the mayor seen is just a tightly wound ball of connecticut energy charging fourth. And then you have hearst. And he's so much more machiavelli in his in his way But in many either way herman's kind of getting taken to school in a way that he's not used to in the way that he is The court jester that we kind put on him later in the film. Those two scenes are just out of this world. yes powerful end i kept. What have you ever heard of that. Parable of the organ grinder's monkey. I don't know whether it's original but it's such a powerful metaphor such Or to just encapsulated. So i don't know. I mean i think i don't know if it's widely widely quoted from what i understand. I do think it exists outside of this movie But it does the way it's elevated and given so much poignancy it just a captures the dynamic. The relationship dynamics well so well to what we ever. It comes late in the film that we see exactly that. Herman is a monkey. And you just say oh my gosh of course and of course as you say it while in real life Herman may not have written citizen kane out of you know ill intention. It does give that thread of connection and give so much more power to the. You know the kind of the reasoning behind the creation of citizen kane. And it's interesting as i don't i thought of the that seen as not making him angry at hearst but making him angry at himself that was a chastening seen and that his anger in within the world of the film was meant to be the both the election and shelly suicide. That was the motivating factor. And this i mean the way. I was this aristocratic waspy person. He had been born wealthy whereas mayor was a scrappy. Whatever when john hilbert's thrown out of his office go back to the garbage. The allies sir. The boxing were you belong. Whatever to differ men but both greatly powerful and it's an it's shown in two different physical ways very effectively. Yeah you're you're absolutely right in that sense because i do. There's so many little details of little lines of dialogue but right before hearst begins his organ grinder's monkey You know speech. Herman apologizes to an end. So i do. I agree with you that he more than anything. The outcome out of that moment is Anger at himself than at anyone else. He knows he acted poorly In that in dinner hall also There's i have it in my book. He wrote a letter. He was writing an account of what happened to citizen kane. As far as distribution and everything we know that that's not it was subsequently the new yorker was gonna do a profile on hearst. And herman wrote that he had very high opinion of him. And you could not help but like the men that he you know. He had great personal charm. So i think that that was meant to come through in the way charles dance played him also in the way the movie chose to portray him. It was more in sorrow than anger that he had to give urban the boot right. Yeah yeah yeah very well said very well said in as much as citizens citizen kane is the film that we have that is meant to show us the many flaws of a figure. Like william randolph. Hearst this is not that film in the sense that as you say hurst is he's not Villain is in any particular way. I think we could all understand If someone after probably many episodes of drunken debauchery at his home is finally just kind of had enough of this And and it is as you say. He's just i'm i'm i'm more disappointed than angry. You know kind of a cliche but And as much as much as it is almost it's it is about legacy in the end of herman sang not that. I'm writing the script to tear you down as much as it is to kind of solidify place in the story as more than just performing monkey. I don't know because again. I think within the movie it's meant to seem i mean he. Whenever you're writing something right you have to put yourself into. You can't be sort of fifty percent there. But i don't. I think it's made very clear. He didn't know he was writing any kind of masterpiece he was. I think he was supposed to come with the with anger. And i think the revenge is supposed to be is is motive. But i think it's certainly. He was smart enough to understand that while he disapproves of things that hearst and and mayor did he. He was punishing himself too. I mean he no that's wrong. He was punishing them but he was also revealing to the world thinks that he honestly believed right. Now how do you feel again in terms of legacies of other people who have gone on in the industry in many ways Herman's younger brother went on and made an even grander name for himself. How do you feel about joseph quits his portrayal in kind of his place in this particular story. Obviously he's not in it for a lot. He makes his his impressions when he's there but this it really isn't his story either Where do you. How do you feel about his portrayal. Well remember i went into this hoping that The hermit joe. And sara would be the herman joe and sara. I imagined to been because i knew that. Whatever this movie did the those portrayals were going to be the herman joe and sara that would live on in people's minds so i thought it would be the easiest thing in the world to sit joe up as a foil to her that herman was this tragic hero who spoke truth to power etc whereas joe was what makes sammy run climber up the ladder. opportunistic cruel. Whatever and. they didn't do that. They made him Tom pelfrey evidently did a lot of research. He has has mentioned my book several times. So that means. I just loved him of course also a he watched for. He watched footage of joe where he could find it now. A lot of the footage of joe would be like he was on. What's line in the sixties. And maybe been in the fifties so by then. He was an older successful person and he tended to speak with great with pauses. Sort of ponderously. Sometimes i'll pause make sure you're listening to me that kind of speech. That wasn't the joe that he was portraying. But i thought he was a very sympathetic. And i thought those scenes between the two of them were meant to show again Each person with whom the herman herman interacted it was it was Adding to the portrait of this person and the brother seems to me captured competition. Loyalty love humor knowing. They're smart and not being afraid of showing it and and so i loved. I was very relieved. And i was very pleased by some of my favorite scenes because i love those interactions sure. I mean obviously the scene when when he comes to the ranch to discuss and his his description of his kind of failed interview but then ending on this tremendous compliment. And you realize based on the fact that herman repeats the language. Exactly is the greatest thing i ever written is only way he could really believe. That was the fact you know seemingly that his brother told him so that he had that confirmation from someone he trusts and love so much. And you have. I mean it's it's such a powerful scene but then as you say the also the humor of brotherly relationship the scene where he's trying to convince him to join the writers guild and it ends of course in this like a tie in your fee. It's i i mean it's such. It's such great human details right so fun. Yes and joe story by the way the the story that he says a about roy. I can't speak french but that's a true story. Although joe never wanted to be out of the studio that they did investigate making irving thalberg replacement. Joe didn't want that. Joe wanted to be a writer and eventually a director to control what he had written. So the A true story and put it in service of a plot point. But i admire the way they use that one to a good story and it was very well very well told in the moment. Now the the third member of this triumvirate is sarah. How do you feel about how. She's portrayed in the film. Well first of all. I loved sense eight. I don't know if you've seen that series. But tuppence middleton plays a white haired icelandic dis- jockey has a drug problem so i'd already seen this actress in loved. She has the same sort of heart-shaped pace that sarah had so of the three of them I think she's the only one that a little bit of casting was affected. By how she looks and era is a really problematic character portray especially in twenty twenty because she takes so much abuse she puts up with so much and so i had trouble in in portraying that relationship in my book and i think that they did a good job in the movie too. It's it's really a rock and a hard place with urban. And i and i noticed in one of my rewatching that he asked why she puts up with a more than once. I mean you like that would be a question asked and answered. You don't need to keep going back to it. But i guess he put their livelihood at such risk. You know at the at the election night when he bets gosh in and he did that kind of thing all the time so i thought they did manage to capture her. I think nicely. She was not a docile person than i don't think she comes across as docile but quietly strong. Yes i mean. I think as you said i mean. The question is asked several times. It's kind of one of their. It's like almost just a quirk of their relationship. You know it's kind of as much as a nickname. Why do you why you love me. And i appreciate. The film doesn't really answer it. I mean you know at the end. She she kind of dancing skirts around it. But at the same time it's She is not as you say she's not a docile woman she you get. The sense is incredibly strong woman. And why what exactly constitutes their relationship you you get gather could make its own movie or its own book all of these elements where you say. Well it's perhaps best off answered in a in a throwaway line because relationships are more complicated than that while. I'm still rooting for a mini series. Was i would like her to joe. And sara and all the women. Joe had affairs with to be a very long miniseries. But i'd also say i think the fact that the Tuppence middleton looks a lot younger than gary coleman and issues about half his age i think he wanted gary omen. I love the way he inhabits the role but he certainly looks older than forty three. And i think. Sarah looks a bit younger than forty three. So they're sort of that office and not only to sarah have those When he asked her why she puts up with him. But there's also sort of a scene where she gears up to tell him what she thinks and you also have that sort of carrying herself up to tell him what she thinks for me from Lily collins from the susan from the rita alexander secretary so that was repeated. I'm guessing to show that these people cared what he thought of a respected him and Wanted to make themselves understood to him because he wasn't someone they would just brush okay. He doesn't get it but okay right. No i agree with that. I do thank you. You get the sense that this is a man that was loved by as she says. I'm sarah says towards the end. You think about those. Who really love your care about you. That those people are there and enforce but You know this is. It's the nature of a self destructive personality Someone plagued by so many Elements that way that it's you know it's hard to overcome it if you had that self destructive tendency which he clearly did what do you think about the ending of this film ending in In the in the the the moments of both wells and herman kind of calling out to each other Kind of throwing a little bit of shade at each other as in their various acceptance speeches. Those are are accurate as far as what they said to each other but they were not enemies. I mean the lines. When herman and john houseman or making fun of wells i i know that they were. They admired him. And that's just the way people talk about each other right. So i i don't think they were meant to demean wells and herman did overplay wells office skated herman's contribution for many years in interviews. There's no question about that. But herman overplaying too. I mean he wrote letters saying one hundred percent of the words that are moving which is just not true. Sort of beside the point anyway. Because what makes the movie. Great you know the dialogue contributes to its orson welles contributions cinematic. That said yes. Yeah i don't know whether you're left with feeling that their enemies are not but they weren't they were just mutually disparaging and then wells lived a lot longer so he got to write history for a long time. Indeed i especially re watching it In the in just their scenes orson in herman together are brief But i do you you get that. I think mutual sense of respect. I love the moment of when he throws the case of alcohol against the wall and hermit. You know pivots. That moment is saying oh. That's exactly what the script needs of moment of course dick violence and Wells who so caught up in the moment and angry can also say. Maybe you're right. That does that actually does sound good. I'm still angry. I'm going to storm out but that's a good point. Let's remember that. I totally agree with you. I thought that was really important and showing how they worked together and by the way wells did have a tantrum but it was not on that occasion. It was it had a fight with housemate. Had all of this in house but was back in new york so when they made up houseman came out more with herman. Hones- on you go. That's good to know. Yeah but to me it it does. Its shows exactly that. Then when those the final scenes do come to me. It's like these are two competitive egotistical man and they appreciate the experience of working together but they're also you know they're gonna rip each other a little bit and i. I do think especially if you're watching the film that those those final lines play more More humor than with you know anger they do to me too. I don't know if they do to all the wells wells. I call them. That are yes. Well hopefully more and more people will watch the film with an air of just the impression of the life of a man and not actually trying to You know recorrect history or set the record straight on Who put more words into that. Amazing script sydney amy. You've lived this this book. You've lived the now this through this movie. Any kind of final connections. You wanna make year between the life of the man you know so well in this This particular Excellent film well. I'd say this. I was meaning of of a biography group. I'm part of yesterday and Everybody wanted to talk about make. After i said. Let's not do during the session. But several of my sister in fellow biographers have had their subjects turned in bio pics. And they're they get so frustrated when the depictions are so distorted. Either about the person themselves about the circumstances and the way they're portrayed and my etling is. You don't know when you're doing fiction you can do anything you want. You don't really owe anybody anything. So i feel very fortunate since i cared so much about this historical figure and i had no control over what they chose to do with the ventures seem to care a lot about authenticity. And i don't exactly a why. I mean i can understand wanting costumes settings and things like that to be accurate but there was such a a attention paid to what i'd call the emotional truth as well as literal truth end so as a not disinterested observer. I'm very grateful that they did that. Because i feel now. I can watch the movie and enjoy feel like visiting herman absolutely well. Hopefully our audience now has watched the movie. They've listened to your words here on this episode. The only thing that could possibly be missing from this experience is reading your book and hopefully they've already done that but just just in case they haven't please go by this amazing book. The brothers banquets hope. Heartbreak and hollywood classics sydney. It's such a pleasure having you on the show. I'm so glad you're able to calm. I'm so glad you enjoyed the movie Because that would have been would have been sad if they had taken an kind of bungled it but they didn't and you like it and we like it and so i'm so happy and and thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you so much. It's really fun to be on your show and to listen to it. I would say well thank you said we will. Hopefully i mean there's fortunately for us. No shortage of films from the brothers banquets for us to discuss in the future. That concludes episode on manque. I'd love to hear what you think of this. Classic movie must feel free to tweet at movie. Must pot email me. Classic movie must at g mail dot com or d. m. e. patriotic. Thank you to our patron producers. Eleanor be maximum. Re pedro are ryan. Jonathan bernstein scofield remember. Classic movie must double feature episodes at least every tuesday on patron as well as the podcast service of your choosing. Thank you so much for listening until the next episode. keep up with your classics.

herman Herman hearst irving thalberg marian hearst kane louis b wells david fincher Mgm sarah charles dance Tom pelfrey orson welles hearst castle paul berg max baril hollywood
David Fincher's Longtime DP Jeff Cronenweth has Advice, Insight, and Stories

The No Film School Podcast

1:10:27 hr | 10 months ago

David Fincher's Longtime DP Jeff Cronenweth has Advice, Insight, and Stories

"Everybody. This is George Gentleman. Editor in chief in film school and we have an interview today. And it's a treat because it is Jeff Cronin with. If you don't know who he is. He is the cinematographer who has worked with David Fincher, a number of times the nominated for Oscars twice. And perhaps most popular among. Our community. But what do I know maybe not he shot fight club. So he has you know he was nominated for the social network. I think grow with the Dragon Tattoo as well for the Oscars he's up for an emmy now, four tales from the loop, which is an amazing. SCIFI series. But he has one of the Great Hollywood industry inside stories his grandfather was a still photographer who was nominated for Oscars back when still photography for. Features was enough of a part of the process that there is a category in the Oscars that his father was a legendary cinematographer who shot among other things bladerunner with Ridley. Scott and Jeff actually was onset quite a bit. So we talked about that today we talk about his apprenticeship with his father becoming a loader a second I we talk about him working with. Spend Nykvist who if you don't know who he is we talked about it in the podcast, but he's one of the greatest cinematographers ever who shot most of. Ingmar Bergman's movies and Jeff were closely with him. Subject is just steeped in cinematography from the last half century. And he has shot these amazing movies. He shot film he shut digital. He's been involved in the development of the red sensors along with venture. And don't cut out of this interview early because at the end, he gives what I can only describe as a masterclass on camera movement from the way that he and David fincher approach it and you just it's just so special that we got this in that. He took the time to talk to us and share all of this and I'm really excited that everybody's GonNa get to listen to it and here we go. Where did your career really begin like what? What made you first get started as cinematographer? Did you always know it was going to be cinematography What was the kind of the first seed that that got you go? It's a it's a bit of a long answer because I have a I'm I'm the lucky silver spoon kids I my grandfather at one the last portrait. Oskar for portrait photography for the last time they the category and on the reason the reason they had a category like that because I'm today where still photographers and and publicist get the images directly from the set predominantly back in those days with the big slow flash cameras and whatnot they actually directed and photographed talent separately and offset. Often on different days and whatnot, and that was the sole source of a publicity for them. So that had a category and then my father is as it claimed the cinematographers there is he photographic later on her original bladerunner and a litany of other other movies and I was fortunate enough to you know visit the set as a kid and came in Namur D-. Pretty early on with the experience, you know I had no idea what everybody did and I just Salt Lake I love the collaboration love this mentality of kind of every day going out to overcome all the obstacles that are throwing it you that day like a military operation and and the Camaraderie was very appealing to me so as I got older and figured out. Who Does what and what everything meant and became infatuated with photography and and his work in particular I decided to go to film school. I went to. USC. And then started working I actually got a job. I actually got into the Union prior to me going to USC. Which is Ironic Real backwards, but it were as well. It's like I was nineteen I started my first year of a of college and an opportunity came came along, which was very difficult in those days to get into the I. You know it's much smaller and They were very very regimented about it, and so after he came along to work as a staff loader assists production company, and if if they employed me for thirty days in a row, then you know you know I had an opportunity to get in and so my dad felt that was a great opportunity. Ironically, he was starting bladerunner at the same time and they're potentially was a loader position on that film. But He decided that it wasn't a guaranteed this was, and that I should do that, and in hindsight you know of course, I would've loved the experience of being part of the crew of on her and I did go every every night I would go after my own work and stay as long as I could until I couldn't keep my eyes open any longer. but it would have been overwhelming for one, thousand, nine hundred to be on that set. It was quite a quite an intense set. Just going to say when you were is that what will you're in? It means a legendary I, mean legendary film legendary set like every in every way. But what was it like my God? You know it was enormous it was. If I if I if if my history Is correct I believe there was a writer strike going on at the time, and so it was the only big going on and it was it was on the Warner. Brothers Lot for a lot of the stuff that was all shot on New York Street in the back and so I went and would go over there and watches as much as I could and Know, it was enormous. It was anamour fake it was fifty s I believe fifty or one hundred essay film. It was a huge crews and affects and everything was still You know in the early stages you you had blue and green screen and you had visual effects but it all took normal amounts of time and and it was all done. You know enhance whether we were so far away from the digital revolution and so the thought processes in the meticulous techniques in order to achieve the visuals that they did. was just mind boggling and and and the scale and scope of things and Ridley's vision and my dad's. Innovation and photography just phenomenal and and so lucky to have been at least to have gone to visit and to been part of it, and then you know throughout my career and certainly his you know the references and that we still make today I, I started off Mike my Photography, my cinematography career in music videos and commercials as many people in the early eighties did or mid eighties did and I. I can't tell you like on a weekly basis there would be references to blade runner to this day. and so and so I got a little bit of that I ironically again. Yeah. Jeeze. I worked over but when I saw fight club that's that's still comes up all the time as referencing and and it's a separate story but that was a that was one of inches goals is to kind of be our our generation's bladerunner and in many raids it was. and. That was that was not not just you know photographed but culturally and. Foot and kind of you know laid runner was in the future and ours was more present but it was really what it wasn't explanation about inasmuch as as as cultural suffering and bladerunner in the future. This was kind of an exploitation of what ours was going through you know in the in the nineties. It always felt to me a little bit like I mean sorry fight fight club. These are two movies that such a huge impact on me to always felt a little bit like what you guys did on fight club like was about the moment but it felt like it could have been in another time. It could have been a little bit in the future it could have been like out of time sort of it felt it was, but it was. So it's so captured a moment you know what earned a particular time but I think and I think a lot of that is the visuals but. Also. So, that was it I went to film school and I I was in the IRA and you know. Stop me if I'm going off course to know the interesting thing about film film school then versus Home School today and I'm a fan of it. I'm a fan of it because I think that not only can you grow up as an artist that you can grow up as an individual and every one of my favorite parts about You know the the university system and an college but you know everyone's different. That was for me But I in in the eighties early eighties when I was in school, you know eighty, eighty, one, eighty, two. we didn't have the Internet we didn't have DVD's, and we didn't have any resources to see films, and so one of the fantastic part about film school was the access and you had to the libraries of that you would not get to normally watch and discuss and explore and learn from the masters of the past, and so that was a wonderful thing and then USC at that time it was. All film of course, and it was very hands on and you really you know you had to make homes and you had to learn and fall down and beg borrow steal and. That was a wonderful kind of education into the industry because you know we're guardless or whether it's a two hundred, million dollar movie or two million dollar movie you end up still trying to do that. You know Every level, there's not enough right. There's always. You need another minute another dollar. And then you know you can have everything be as precious as a canon. Sometimes, you're like, give me that I know how to do this done. You know flashbacks in school and you make your day or you get a shot that was going to be too complicated or you know whatever you have to do to make it, make it happen. So that was wonderful and then I went on and you know I worked for my father. for years and and and then when my my father stopped working from from Physical. Illness I was fortunate enough to meet spend NYQUIST and did seven movies with them. Yes you are in A. I was loader and I was the second ACN I was camera operator, and then I shot second unit and then I became A. reluctantly became a DP because. I reluctantly. While you're on the track the whole time like doing everything right and then, and then you say like I didn't want to be a DP. Yeah. I I don't know why I just was lacking confidence and I had been around masters for so long and I thought you had to really. Go up the scale and and and earned this right and what happened to me as my all the people I met working with my father and me overly protecting him because of his illness I inadvertently learned to be I learned an enormous amount of far more than I appreciated and and the interesting thing was when I met fan he was already sixty nine and so within the week first week or two, you know here's this kid on a set of all these guys that have been working for him for decades and I'm he's letting me read the light firm on every setup even get Jerry's like, okay. Go tell me what that is. Because I get into into I get into debates with them like he'd walk out and he'd casually throw it up and walk away and I'm like, Oh my God I got hit like three different things like San. Can I can I? Can I do it then. He was laugh at me and and you know it was pretty bold for kid to do that and my pissed a lot of people up. But in the end they realized that it was coming from a place. I have zero ego and it was all coming from in protecting people and and protecting him, and so we went on and did that and then so what happened is people like venture and and different people we had worked with over the years started going like here. We have this project I want you to come shoot Mike who You Know Jeff Not Jordan right. You know. House. And and I did and and and and it worked out you know what was the first? So there's there's so many things I wanna I wanNA kind of back on here but I mean so I'll just start with you say you know it's one of the lucky ones I was born with a silver spoon and there was like legacy. Players. There's more to at that. You know because I I've grown up with a lot of people that have had the same situation and that they feel entitled and I. That I felt. I will never embarrass him or then I will never be the one that doesn't overperform and because of that I tried twice as hard as everybody else and over. Compensated and and I think that's what ultimately you know I was so afraid of disappointing them or causing them some kind of embarrassment that I just was ridiculously overcompensating and in that and and it's not for everybody. But this is what worked for me. I became you know better at each position and then and then acquired all this knowledge to to find my own careers cinematographer. Because I was GONNA. Say the way you worked and the way you talk about it. There's so much humility and there's so much like I just wanted to make sure it was doing it right and learning, and you took every right step. You didn't shortcut anything you know and you didn't you and I think that oftentimes when we having grown up in Los Angeles myself, I, think my father was even striking in that writer. Strike is a TV writer when you're going to nineteen eighty but I've been around and I've been around other people who grew up around it and a lot of people use that as a way to skip a few steps and That works for them, but it s not it's not something that from the outside or from the insider from wherever you are. You're looking at you like, oh man but a part of the deal but it's nice to hear from somebody who is here. But who and who went through all those things and was like, but I wanna do I WANNA learn how to do this the right way, and maybe it's possible with cinematography that that that's the only way to succeed at it. Right There yes or no I like when I was in film school one of my classmates was was drawn Schwartzman and Johnson enormous career as a cinematographer fact he's right now he's in London doing the next Jurassic Park and what he did out of film school whereas I went and started working on big films as a as a low man on you know man in the camera department he went out started shooting you know infomercials and and industrials and US Of the low budget videos at the beginning and we we got to the. He might have beat me by a year or two, but we got to shooting. Big, movies about at the same time. For me I got to watch other people solve all these enormous problems and I watched them how they carry themselves and I watched. Aesthetics and and and ethics on a set and you know I'm a slow learner. So I had to see it a lot where whereas like someone like John he added, make all those discoveries itself and fall down and figure things out and so I you know I think there's two ways of doing it but I think it depends on your on the individuals and. Personalities you guys both shoot like really beautiful movies. Something to be said for for whatever. USC Film School at the time. I think you're right. What Film School is his certainly changed in that time just getting your hands on the ability to shoot. Well, really from that time right up until maybe the late nineties, it was really hard for anybody to get access to to to you know maybe some big old video cameras, but it was hard to shoot stuff like there wasn't. We didn't have this readily available like did our hands on something go shoot it. You know the way that then that's what film school promised you right now and it was expensive gear was expensive cameras are expensive who could process anything and and and then where would you cut it and so? That was the beautiful thing about film schools. You know in that era up until then digital, and then it changed and I'm not saying it's not a great thing. They think the expectations are much higher now when the kids are far more educated and now they they actually get to shoot a lot more stuff in hand because there's so many different ways of producing the content, right? Yeah, and I. Just also I want to point out for context for anybody who like. So yeah your father among other things shot he shot up many things besides for blade runner but. then. NYKVIST is if people don't know like one of the great cinematographers of all time arguably and yeah some like legendary films dating way back including a lot of Ingmar Bergman movies. So I, just WanNa make sure you know contextual this was like a giant even at the time you were working with him and. He did twenty two bergman films right and I, wonder like, was it intimidating? Was it like I? Mean you told an anecdote about about reading the lights for him but like how is it? What is it like to step I? Knew you know you tell me about working with him at all that yeah of course, it was It was extremely comfortable for some reason I. Think it was because it was very much going from my father and working in the same capacity and and looking up to spend you know almost in a in a fatherly kind of. Figure although I'd say our say our relationship was more like brothers because. Half. The time he just was telling me stories and laughing and and and and pointing out girls on the set you know and I, was like Oh. My God. but but but again, like another guy, a giant in the industry who was very humble. And and would just you know tell me phenomenal stories in fact, you know he won two Oscars right and so he wants to authors before he got into the union here. So he went to his. His initiation into the IRA at the time, and there was a board of gentlemen that were members that would have to prove it, and they're asking him a series of questions and. Asked him. What do you think qualified you as a cinematographer to get into this union and he goes I think it's the Do Oscars? You gave me. Not I got. At the moment that they apparently whomever asked that particular question was unaware of his accomplishments in the past. But Oh, my God, what a heat up question and a beautiful answer. Yeah and so you know talking about you know we're we've definitely want to talk about time about words nominated for tales from the loop for an emmy. But you've also you've been nominated for a couple of Oscars as well. What is that like? Like is that was that in in for social network in girl with the Dragon Tattoo been up for all kinds of awards but what is that experience like an after having shot? So many things you know and had a long successful career. I. Mean it's it's phenomenal right? It's it's a weird thing like we're one of the few industries that PAT ourselves on the back but it's something that that is so ingrained in us that it's a beautiful thing and who doesn't want to get invited to the dance and you know hopefully come home with the prize but. Either way it was you know having grown up here having grown up in industry having watched my grandfather and my dad, and then finally actually have arrived there was was really kind of an overwhelming. And personal accomplishment regardless of what it means in the real world. To me just because of the heritage and how long we've all been in this and and then and then, and then a lot of it was a really wonderful experience and it was always with wonderful. Sometimes, I'm friends with and so it was a it was a great nights and the the second time I was able to bring my daughter which was very Share that with her so it was great. You know. As I've been to the dance twice. I just haven't gotten the dance yet. So I WANNA. Maybe, I'll get to dance but but I gotta go I gotta go earn that. So You keep. You know the kind of things you're doing I feel like keep shooting him. But so so you you got into, it seems like as you mentioned like your first thing seconding on, you know big movies for legendary cinematographers you worked in the music video world a little bit in into the early and mid nineties is that part of how you and David fincher cross paths initially? Now actually the first time was My Dad shot of music video called father was Madonna video and it was the last one on that AL and black and white beautiful video and I met her on that and I got a call from him like maybe a week after. we had finished principal photography and he goes I have some inserts I wanNA shoot, and I'm like, okay he goes meet me at panavision tomorrow at noon I'm go great. I'll see then he goes. Oh, by the way, bring your light meters like what? What for you know and I showed up and you know Madonna was there and we shot some inserts of pearls dropping at high speed and we saw stitches in her mouth and we shot these things. But but before shooting, you know he comes in and he's like I wanna do this this kind of here I lined up and he goes all right light it I'll be back half an hour I'm like oh could I hadn't really like he hadn't really explained the whole process to me at that point you know what? I'm sorry. You had explained to expectations but of course you know I I, I let it and I'm asked my dad's work and for those shots and they all fit seamlessly and he enjoyed that and then there was a few other things like commercials and different things where. They, needed they needed a small crew to go finish off. You Know David did these. That were. They actually brought them back. Because it was maybe a twenty year anniversary I'm familiar with them. And they were so. Absolutely spot on about what we were expecting in the future. Technologically, we're right and how one hundred. And how our lives would change but at the moment when we were doing them that was it seemed you know. Really. Progressive and one of the scenes was a was what would become an IPAD or a tablet on the beach and and he just didn't feel like the be here in California supported the the story they were they were underwhelming. So we went to Saint John and the Caribbean, and it was just him and I and the navy and his producer, which eventually became his wife. And and so I went and sought that for him, and so I started this thing of doing these little shots and pick up shots and I shot a few things on music videos over the years, and then when you know we, we started alien three together, my dad and and David I, and then the studio felt like my Dad's health was going to be a problem down the road although nothing has been a problem up to that point, but it was really. It was really like not a pleasant set to be on and there was a lot of. Contention between David and the producers and US being in London and and and so it worked in the end it became something better for us not to be part of it and we came back. We did a movie called final analysis with SOS WANNA, which was much better to be back here for my father and all that anyways that started a series of things and I shot second unit on seven and and and and I operated. I shot second unit on the game, and then when fight club came along, you know as soon that I was going to meet him to discuss all the second unit work. So it was it was overwhelming when he when he said to me like read this tonight and let me know it's more on shoot it. And I am internalizing that like I'm screaming inside without saying anything going I don't need it I don't. Know. But I put my best game face on and said. yeah. I'll take a look tonight and I'll let you know tomorrow. Did cartwheels to my car. You know. Crazy but That was that was fun and and and to circle back to what I said before you know he we sat down and talked about and he goes you know I think this may be one of the best grip I ever get to direct. This'll probably be one of the best scripts that Brad gets to perform in and I wanted to be our kind of our nineties version culturally of what bladerunner was, and they probably won't make a lot of money. On. That was that was then but then you know two years later, all the effort put into it and all the blood sweat and tears. Of course you know you're judged by. Unfortunately. By box office that that that is the measure. The benchmark that people saw the successful movie two years. Later, you can then be judged culturally by it and by the actual filmmaking of it, but initially know it's always the box office resonates and so it was it was not. Well received when it first came out and mostly because it was Kinda miss marketed, which changed David's approach to filmmaking, and now he's one hundred percent controls all the marketing and all the cells that he does because but it happened is columbine had happened that previous summer and so there was a great fear about having a movie that promoted violence and and so we we made all these commercials that were irreverent. Iraq Iran commercial. Yeah about the movie and not about. The the the boxing are the fist fighting with the bare knuckle fighting, which was really just a metaphor to get you to these places and so we did all these really funny funny Commercials Promotions for the film and the studio. Didn't use them in and then when we saw the first commercials out for it, it was all about the fighting and I was like wait a second I thought that was the point. My I use an example like my parents. Said we thought this was a boxing them in had. You not shot it. We probably wouldn't have seen it and really that's not what it's about. You know. Yeah. So Ahead of your time. Obviously. Out of step with an like and I think that movie was I'm amazed That he knew that in a way that he came that when he came to initially and he said like this is not this is probably going to be like this. This is a very special thing and it's also maybe not GonNa make a lot of money like he kinda got it. You know that's that's incredible. Foresight I can only speak is like you know I was I was of an age where I was just an audience at the time and I remember seeing it and being blown. Away and I think a lot of people in a certain age range were It was like a defining thing for us to see and and yet the world at large didn't seem to be reacting to it the right way like like like. So many of these things and I wonder if part of his feeling of having you on that one was like he knew that you had experienced and at like and also knowledge through your father of what it's like to work on those kinds of movies. I maybe you know maybe but You know it. It's it's one of those things when you put all that effort or you can say that the beginning because it is enormously complicated book, I can make a movie about right and and and David had it all worked out in his head and we were trying to catch up and so it was hard to see it I. Although we knew we were getting great performances that we were all laughing and let things were so so funny pushing so many boundaries and we were in we were making an Excellent quality. content so We knew all from that standpoint. We just didn't know how it would resolve again and and ultimately you know when it came out on DVD was enormous and and just was top of copper the sales for a long long time and then became a. Cultural. Phenomenon and and and even I think it's in the I think it's in the national. Archives. Put. A couple of movies every year and it was really fun for me because bladerunner is there as well. So. Cool. Dad Dad and I both have won in there, which is really cool. You know if it just just kind of chatting I you know I blade runner suffered kind of the same situation. You know I think the reason why it was far more. Intellectual story that provoke thought and I think people thought they were GonNa get a second version of a star wars and and it wasn't that I mean it had every. That the technology in society but it didn't but you have to think about all these concepts in about humanity and and and and those that want what we we have and so. It was interesting. I did a film a few years ago. Called Canine team the with a major with Harrison Ford and we became pretty good pal and Harrison obviously you know we're friends with my dad and in bladerunner and. Trenches together. Yeah, they had as he told me these great stories enclosed. kind of some missing parts are me about you know all the books that have come out all the rumors about weight on her all the stories that you hear and of course, I was there and saw some and then I had all my dad's experiences and then crew members years later I would hire guys it worked with my father and and hear their versions of it to, and then to sit with Harrison and listened to his version in the voice over how things happen. I. Felt like I got really close and then last year Ridley was considering doing. Merlin. The there's It's it's. I don't WanNa be it might be seven books, but this was he really was going to do the first one. and. and. He I interviewed for it and. I and again, it was this weird thing like I should have been nervous beyond belief. But there was a similiarity in this comfort and we sat down and the first half was just talking about family and then he started talking about bladerunner. And he completed my circle and it was the most like, I'm just I was smiling and held my brother got in my car and I'm like I might be the only person that got all these. All three sides of it from the perspective and a better understanding of and it was really fun and You know he's such such the master filmmaker and to to be in his company and and I've and I've been lucky. I've known him for a long time. I worked with Tony on many many commercials actually shot the last one before before you know his And and I worked with all the kids Luke Jordan and Jake. So it was it was really kind of a fun fun interview. You know he ended up not not doing the movie so did matter but but I wouldn't trade that experience or you know. So one day will you ever be oranges this only ever? To exist in your in your mind, but will we ever get your book the whole story? Like having spent time with every individual side of this massive set legendary making of a movie like you could put it all together for us. I'm not sure you will but you could. Now think about. Some stories are best left. Yeah I mean I can imagine that because even when you said you were talking to Harrison Ford on widowmaker I was thinking like Oh please tell me some of the Harrison Ford side of the story but I'm not GonNa put you on the spot because I'm sure that a lot of that stuff people don't want have out there I you what you'd call me later and I'll tell you Okay. Well, maybe one day I'll I'll push you to write that book. In the Mirror I'm though. In the meantime. So yes. So widowmaker was also Kathryn bigelow right. Like so you you've worked with so many different like really important filmmaking voices from this generation, and that's just another person like how do you move between them like what is there a way? You know you? You've done a lot of movies with David fincher and I want to get back to that in a second as I imagined built some short hand but you know jumping between these people, what is that like and how do you do you approach each one differently Yeah I think you seek out you know connection and you seek out common -ality. You know well, you don't have to agree on everything it's it's. It's great to debate in push and fight your way through things but it has to be a comfortable situation and you have to see at least in certain things and have an understanding of what each person wants to bring to to that project and and then build from there It's one of those things like you gotta be careful who you get in bed with because once you start a project, there's no easy way out. You know it's like you're in it for the next six months and there's no disclaimers you know come up during the during the show. So so you really WanNa like no about people know their worse and and make sure that you guys are all good and even then things you know. You can never be. Higher than about anything but but at least going into something you WanNa feel like you have a team that supports you and can't wait to support them and you have at least a common vision of how it how this how the whole thing together and then I like embellish the individuals because they're all different. You know you know fencer is is exactly. So the contributions. You make in his world you have to skirt around and push and you have to say look, this is a better way to do it and prove it whereas something with Catherine she's like I need to talk to the actors. These you know blocked us out. You know you know the the the justice of the scene and you know where the weight needs to be Block this out for me. So it it's to give and take and you know and and you know, mark, romantic is very collaborative and he's somebody that has a clear idea but he's extremely open to to the contributions or he he imbalances you. Put your fingers on it too, and then and then sits back in and orchestrates. So everybody does a different and I think. Every way of doing it is is extremely exciting. You so many different like ways to to create an to do you tend to work with a lot of the same crew that you bring along into for each thing or does this kind of depend or like do you have it like a is there crew you have on the venture projects and then maybe Yeah Yeah it. It changes often you know but but you know there's a familiarity in a in an advantage to having you know a crew that you're comfortable with and supporting each other. But I, tell you it's always it's it's extremely. terrifying and exciting to me. When you end up going someplace, you've never been with complete strangers and I like it because it forces me not to rely on and take things for granted. You know I have to go back and I have to analyze everything like I know with my grip gaffer that these things will happen automatically but I don't know that when I go somewhere else and it's super refreshing and keeps you on your edge and that's that's you know that's an important thing. I think everyone's different but for me being a little bit nervous, sometimes is a good thing that keeps me on my toes you know I. Talked to people sometimes about embracing fair you know. As long as fear doesn't debilitate you as an individual, then fear can make better and keep you on point and keep you fresh and keep pushing boundaries and and It works for me. You know for some people, it overwhelms them and that's that's that's not a good way to go. You. told me. There's an anecdote at the beginning of your time with with working with. You know he left you alone to shoot the pearls dropping or something. was there a little bit of that lake? Okay I have to figure this out by myself and I don't know what he really wants and like initially drove you or was like that. Of course of course, that's always there but but then like I, you know my dad's shop the original I it has to look great and I don't WanNa you know I I looked up to censor You know it was very clear. Then of of what Kinda filmmaker he is, and so I didn't I wanted to live up to that, and so you push yourself and for me. It works and he had a lot. You know he is notorious for being specific. And Gem have you guys in some way formed. Partnership in a number of movies will mention like you know Girl with the Dragon Tattoo and the social network like. Over these, these projects have built some like short hander expectation where like a specific he is like you kind of always know or do you guys have to go through everything like over and over again and really what's the process like I? Just I, want to peel back the curtain a little bit. Well no they I mean you can look at them and you can she. that they all fit into a particular kind of family, but they're all different and and and the way we lens it and the way the cameras and the way the light is the color of light. There's all subtle differences to it I mean he and I see eye to eye are almost always on aesthetically and I think that's one of the things that makes it so easy for us to to. Work Together and of course, you know once you know a system, are you guys create just together? It's very economical. It really works well, and you can accomplish a lot and I think that trust is is enormous you know and so that has always facilitated us and and and. and. And pushing boundaries and and you know the one beautiful thing about about a lot of people. But you know particularly David is He he he's that guy that says the buck in here in other words you know I remember on fight club there's a scene when at Norton is lane and bad and he's got insomnia and he's against the you know the sheets were supposed to be staying in the art department are correct prop department somebody had not got them as dark as we want him to stay much wider than we anticipated so now. You have that kind of problem where you have someone that's supposed to be night. You have to see who they are, but you don't want the sheets being the brightest thing in the in the room and kept pushing into pushing and I was like I don't know I. Don't know with US seems to I it's way lower than we normally would expose something you know and I'm worried that the image is going to be. He pushing? And and daily the next day it was dark and my initial reaction like I fucked up my problem I, I'll take before responsibility and he's like are you kidding? It's like how do you expect to break boundaries and to push the envelope and less take risks? So this is you know we have one hundred, thirty, five days of shooting. This is two hours she again tomorrow the sheets will be right and and and you'll fix it and that was an enormous thing for me to have that happen when you're when you are out there you know. Creating new things taking risks with techniques or or light or pushing boundaries to know that you're supported. Just as you know, you still look with a lot of money involved and you have to be responsible. You can't just be cavalier out there and breakfast. But but if you are doing art and you are creating things you know it doesn't always work out sometimes and to understand that and appreciate it's not the end of the world at least in in a film. Then it afforded me to be more comfortable when I took other products and and. You know applied that same kind of. Integrity and pushing an. earless Nece I. Guess He protected your ability to fail like you protected your guys is ability to take a chance for it not to work in then try it again right? That's exactly exactly I mean look we don't fail very often, but but but there are times when you go too far and you don't know it you know especially because it was all on film. You know in lenses were slower and lights were bigger this this segues into something I'm really curious about I would almost describe like the way you shot I also should mention gone girl which you also shot with him. If feels like the two of you, the movies you do with him, it's almost like it's black and white and color sometimes I don't know how to describe it. But. But that's how it feels to me and I don't know like it feels like that sort of was innovated by you guys in a way and I and all of them have something of that like it does feel like pushing those shadows and like what we can see what we can't see and. my question is. Through the years of your collaboration, the technology's changed a lot like like film. And then we jumped to now and it's like how many things are shooting? What are you guys shoot on and how have you has as the process changed? How have you guys worked to continue that legacy through the way that the technology is shift? Right well, David is always push technology. You know he's enormously brilliant guy who understands all aspects of making and as really into. The technology and so he shot Zodiac and Benjamin Button on the Viper and when social network came along red camera had been out for about a year the red one and one of David's closest friends is Steven Soderbergh and Steven had shot changed with the first versions of the red and were it was extremely excited about it and pushing it. So social our you know we went through our due-diligence and test it out different digital formats. But SODERBERGH loaned us is to cameras and they had just been up to this new ship called the mysterious ex. So we were the first guys to have it and we fell in love with it and decided that about what we were going to she social network on and started this relationship with Jim Gerard and Jared Land At red cinema and it just. Continued throughout the drought and still is enormous for both. Of Us, although you know I didn't do anything on mine hundred but they're all still very much a part of it and by that. I mean that's like each time a new camera new chip a new sensor came out. We somehow ended up being the first to get so social, it wasn't a seri- isn't mysterious ex. Dragon Tattoo was the helium gone girl was. The Dragon. Sending them a lot when you get the mean I'm assuming the answer is yes. But what's the process like it's like, Hey, it's a new chip. It's capturing new amount of information or the information's a little different. Yeah. How are we gonNA, learn this this tool I'm sure it's really exciting that I'm fascinated by that. It was it was easy because it was always from the same. It was the same system and all the things that kept advancing where the amount of resolution the abolition of the science, the latitude so and and and the and the user friendliness ergonomics of it both in the shape of the camera and menus them and and your options. So and we got to participate in in you know requiring certain things things that worked and things that didn't work and they were working hand in hand with us and so did you guys? Oil. But did you ever communicate I want you to continue but I'm curious also did you ever communicate afterwards things like, Hey, after social that these are the things that I think we would love to see like stuff like that always always and hung out there and. David was an enormous part of that to the point where like on. I WANNA say minehunter they made a camera called Zena more which was ergonomically kind of like different than any of the digital cameras out there. It almost looked like Geiger from aliens at. The body of it, but it's fit on your shoulder because originally. I think the concept the on my hunter was going to be all hand held. So they made these things that fit on your shoulder perfectly wait was perfectly balanced and could grab the map box that was a solid unit part of a camera and I'm not boring you a whole bunch of other things that worked perfectly for that. You're talking to me that's GonNa love lots that stuff. Well. You know he he just committed to using the. The LEICA select season, and so they're all the same size and so the map box cliff on in the motors were inside the barrel underneath amount box and it was all one solid thing. So there was no cables. No. External Motors you know and it was just one compact unit that. That that was amazing and in the end, they didn't do my underhand. You know they use more traditional camera movement but but just just the. Reds. Ability to accommodate us into. Along with the projects has always been this wonderful gift that we shared and And so I that's who I ended up. You know working with lot and and that's where that came from and the thing about Social Eric, which was so rewarding for me individually. But I know it was one of our goals at the beginning was we were raised in that world where there was still half movies or being shot on film they'd be more than half and and at the first few screenings that we had nobody knew what we saw. Oh yeah I know I mean and I devoted my on my face. Yeah like are you kidding? That's fantastic like you know that were there. Then we've arrived now we can start. Embellishing this I think that that's why I had to ask because I feel like you seamlessly cross through like I I mean I I couldn't do like a side by side and I don't have the I to pick out the pixels but I really feel like from each movies you kept this look you guys never and I know as the technology using changed, you maintained a fidelity to your look in style without losing what was cinematic about it. So it's kind of fascinating to think about. Did you did you guys use read on tales from the loop? What did you shoot on? Yes and no because The idea behind hails from the loop, the visual language that we wanted to. To utilize was large format and seventy mil glass and there's a few reasons why we chose that but panavision has. Undoubtedly has the best inventory of of large last and panavision has the xl two, which is a rehouse read in other words isn't took the read sensor and put it in their own camera body with their own economics and their own you know Interface and so for me, it was a it was a perfect marriage because now I got the sensor that I'm so comfortable with that I know latitude in color science and ISO, and the inventory of lenses to choose from tell details from blue and so that's what I did. So it was when I say it was a combination it's a little bit of both but it was it was a and then I and then throw in you know because life isn't complicated enough. I wanted to make more challenges for myself. I went through the inventory there and found these lenses of dance Sasaki was just starting to release and I put them in the rotation of tests than we were shooting and both monochromatic and Nice on love with they go. That's it. That's the that's what this this show wants to look like, and at the time, there was only three lenses. Lenses what were their? Guides. Limit. Limit what you could do just because it was those three or did you. Know the story doesn't end there. So we had three lenses and and then I called down and I said, we love these but I can't do show mean I'm going to have to cameras is the to cameras show and we're going to have a second unit does plates and inserts and that kind of stuff and he goes. Okay. I'll I'll I'll make you a few more like oh? Okay. Days these bastardize lenses would show up that like the the market dropped. It was like a fifty four millimeter lands and a twenty eight and some like you know sixty two like because that's just what the parts were that he had to put together that still have the same you know Kinda Caracteristics of of a glass, but you know without taking the time to actually make these perfect you know. Set that matched up to fifty, sixty, five, seventy, five, eighty, whatever it happened to be and so we ended up with about. Six of the Panamsat Panta primes and then we offset that with a seventy Mil Primoz and you know, and then out a little bit of a diffusion to kind of get some of the artifacts that that was so attractive about Pana speech. Nice. It's like I've heard people say this and I'm it sounds like you feel this way but I've heard people say that today the nowadays like the Lens you match with the sensor is kind of creates your stock almost like that's what your film stock is like pick a lens or you combine lenses with a different set with whatever censor you're working within. That's what gives you the look Yeah. No doubt about it. I mean you know as these cameras get get. Better and better resolution. You know you're gonNA start wanting to like shoot through coke bottle because. Some some way to get back some of that texture that that the that the. Resolution is cutting through so that we can get back to something that's more tangible but you know for for me and for David You know and it's just choose schools of thought we we always liked coming you know. We would like to start with the best and we'll step on it later and we will mess it up and we will make it whatever you know our our for that project wants to be as opposed to starting with something that is of lesser quality, and that's what that's what it is. You know some people are are more comfortable going that route because it can't be manipulated later. But when you when you have the relationship, the David and I do and trust that I, you know I know that he finishes regardless you know it's not going to be handed off to an editor and going were out of money and time and You know there's going to be half hour color correction today, and that's it that would never happen on those projects. So we are so comfortable with going with the most amount of information, and then you know augmenting it as we will right except like back in the in the fight club days when it was like. The cameras which got Like if You're white sheets to light like you can't change that. Seem. So archaic now, when you think back about sitting in a room at one of the labs and looking at a at a analog footage counter on the side going by and telling the guy that's two points to dark and it's two points to green meaning that we only had red green and blue and you had brighter or darker. That's it. That's all. Yeah and you by the time, he writes it down for shots have gone by. Yeah. Did you like do you miss shooting that way on any level or is it just not I? I love film and I loved the magic and I loved. Thinking I knew exactly what it was gonna be and always being surprised that it was better than I thought. because there's this magic that happens in the sort of chemical process that as we're all scientists or artists are were both. But nobody. Nobody knows exactly what it's going to be. You have a really good idea like you match everything and it is but there was always a little bit of magic that went on and and and it was always so beautiful and now when I look back I mean as as a cinematographer, I'm just envious. Of How easy it was to light people Yeah and and by that I mean this. You know it counters what I just said about the high resolution it's not friendly to faces and so you have to work considerably harder to be complementary to the people But the bonuses That but film was so forgiving and I didn't know it at the time you know none of us did we like this is not forgiving at all and we work really hard to had no concept of what things I'm sure you remember but I remember the first time we started seeing like hd digital like really high quality broadcast images were like, Whoa, that's a little startling. You know like it was some faces overwhelming. Yeah. They didn't look right and so it's taken time to figure that out and Yeah nobody knew that someone was as forgiving as as Creamy as it was all this terminology, we didn't use as much because it was just a given, right? That's right and so you know, I, love it. I would shoot shoot in a second if if the option came up but I gotta tell you speaking honestly I don't I don't I don't Miss Waking Up at four in the morning calling allowed to make sure I could show that day. A. Till's from the loop you're creating like it's the perfect. Thing for us to of this topic because it's melding like this kind of like super wheel like hyper real scifi world feels grounded. Right? That's like the art at expires at to and you know. You could shoot it. You have to shoot it in a way that feels like open to the digital world for for the effects but also that feels like real and human, right? was that is exactly what my what my goal was. I, mean for me, it was a great opportunity to create a visual style that stayed grounded when reality was suspended in to keep the drama without losing the humanity to mercer viewer without getting in the way of it I just felt like. If you'RE GONNA take people and you're gonNA pull the rug out from under him if I'm doing that with the light to you're going to miss the nuances of of of of the messages and the story and I thought Daniel Halprin just just killed it in conceptually and wrote these beautiful episodes that I thought it was better to put it on a plate and and and create a look and I think we did and to Create Camera Movement and then let the let the talent. Take away the story and run with it and. You know you have an obligation to keep people immersed visually 'cause that's Central part of storytelling. But I thought like if I show boated that it would just it would. It would distract and and and So we did it. We did it with with you know. We did it with subtly and we did it with depth the field and we did it with. Along Gated Camera Movement, and we did it with planes seems out longer than you might normally do it and and utilized camera movement to to. To. Concentrate coverage or eliminated condense things a little and and let things play out a little bit more and so I really was happy with the way it looks and the way that the the camera helped tell the story and how we felt like. We were with this little girl and her and her fear in this world in the world you know. It's a it's a funny thing because television. In such a wonderful state now, and there's so much beautiful. Content coming now, to try to reinvent the wheel, you're you're fooling yourself let's take something and then twisting slightly to enhance a particularly good story was really fun challenge to have you know. Yeah it's I mean it's so cinematic and more and more television is bringing cinematic like you or David fincher into the fold. So we're getting that quality of storytelling visually and otherwise like on. TV You know and it's it's great and there's just so much out there But yeah what's fascinating about this is that it's like these kinds of effects. In the way they're blended into the world. It's like kind of you know it's not what? We used to expect in television. You know now not at all and and You know we we kind of all agreed that that it was a winter story are episode with a winter story and and so makers that came to mind most were Bergman and tycoon ski and. CAL loss canning say cloudy and We watched you know we watch those movies and kind of embellish their camera movement and the pace and. Positions and tempo and I. You know it was it was a bold choice because you're you're talking about audiences that are used to watching game of thrones and writings that have so much more energy and this didn't just this was you know was the this is the blade runner versus the Star Wars of of in Sifi where it was mostly conceptual and and the human experience affected by these choices that they make and so It's funny I hadn't thought about the Bergman influence. But now that I'm thinking about the pilot I definitely imagined I can see it and then funny also because you worked with Bergman's DP. To come full circle did that did that work its way into it? All we thinking about him You know anytime I'm in the cold I'm thinking about. And winter light and all of those issues that come up but Yeah, he's always there. You know I I I think aesthetically spend was a little Liberal Wisconsin Fast Than My dad my dad always pushed harder. So I'm more I'm more drawn to my father's work. Then fans which. Sends earlier work was beautiful and had as much contracts. Some of his later stuff got a little more pastelle softer. and and and I. You know I've done that as well. I did a movie called down with love which is all about that. Yeah it's. And softness but that was an interesting movie at the point in time it exists because it was sort of using aesthetic to create period. You know like using it's like, Hey, we're gonna I, remember seeing it and thinking Oh. This is cool. They're trying to show me the time period by using like the look of the stock of that time you know. Exactly you know you shot anamour fake and we did. It was on film, of course, earn. And the way that you know the sets that we built in the scale of them and their perspective of them and. Light choices all tried to. Be Omaha to those Romantic comedies of the of the late sixties and early sixties. Yeah. It was very colorful, which is like you know different extremely different from some of the other stuff. So yeah, I mean I don't WanNa keep you I would keep you forever just because I, want to hear all the. Runner stories, but I want to end soon and I wanna ask something that we think about a lot like you guys when you're working with with David fincher in other things obviously everything. But there's a lot of key camera movement is like a big partner like very, it feels very specific and story focused and just curious and I know a lot of our. You know there's so many video essays out there in the community that we are in about like why you the camera moves that way or this like can you take us a little bit into the the process of blocking out those kinds of sequences together and what motivates your choices with camera movement? You're talking about with David correct. Yeah. Yeah. When you guys together and you know yeah, I mean. Y- every day you're on the set with him it you learn something He's that clever and that immersed and gives one hundred percent is so dedicated to trading. Memorable. Images and and and and the movie that that you That doesn't give you any opportunities to get out and by that I mean this and I'll talk about the movement in a second. But I remember watching social network the first time in an audience and he with an audience he leaned over to me and he said watch. And You open up and it's the barroom and you see the two characters but there's a lot of noise and almost everyone in the theatre leans forward and their seat to try to hear about it to see here what they're saying and slowly you know the background the. Noise starts to to soften and you can hear them. Here. Their words more more clearly and his point is. An his general philosophy and making movies is is that once I, get you on the ride I'm not GonNa, let you off and say you're back at the train station. You know. So so I'm not going to give you any reason to disengage for example mistakes. Out, of Focus I lines, props, a cup that was here, and now cheer Any any kind of anything that whether consciously or subconsciously allows you to disengage for a moment you know you you may walk out of the wow that was a great movie but there's something that's not quite settling for you and and that that we try not to let happen and so that you know in that approach, you tend to try to do and make things as as perfect are seamless as possible. Some people will say that that's not organic enough, but but there's no perfectly making movies some people. Matching. Means nothing to them and it's all about the story and that works just fine to. But in in David's case, this is what he prescribes to do. So back to the camera movement, nothing happens by accident If you'll notice in many of the stories and the camera movements different for everything in seven, we ran around with a lot of hand held and we had we shook cameras and we we put Attached. THEM TO SAWS to shake him during helicopter shots and different things like all kinds of things to to increase that energy and and But. In shows like gone girl or. Social Network. Or Dragon Tattoo you. The camera tends to stay with an actor when an actor moves cameras and when the actor stuff to camera stops because you wanna be with them and you want to be in their world or experiencing whatever it is that we want them to be experienced that moment and so the camera tends to be driven by the talent and that dictates the speed of movements that dictates like we tend to when someone gets up or down in a chair, you have an option of them down. Or you can or you can drop the camera. So you stay with them and we always dropped the cameras so you stay with them. So there is no tilting you know in a perfect world it would all sit around drop lock in they go down and camera goes down. So you're you're never disengaged from them and that's just part of you know that's just a way of telling stories. You know another thing that we like to do is we as opposed to using the seventy five million for close. We'll use a forty millimeter land or reason behind that is it's still there's no kind of distortion. It's very complimentary, yet it gives you enough space around the person to not ever lose where they are. You keep things in context all of a sudden in this blurry void that says, no meeting you're still in the set and you're still environment and that gives more context story and that's at least you know philosophy that we both prescribed to. So those are a few little. It's like you just get like a masterclass in how to motivate like nyu might motivate some of those decisions that so good. I yeah. I I if there's one more thing I just wanted to last last last plastic. Do you have any any advice for an upcoming film maker for somebody starting out for somebody looking for ways in like what would you say? I would say watch as many films as you can and shoot as much as you can, and you may not know what your style is yet you may not have a style like, I hate it when people try to brands you and put you into a box because I think each each opportunity, it creates its own. Own Opportunities to to to find something new and even even if they resemble something you've done before they're going to be something different. So don't don't let people like a puts you in a box, but also don't put yourself in the box always push your own boundaries always testing these things always try to find something and and and and let fear be your friend. You know because it keeps you going and pushes boundaries and you don't become complacent. But. That's a great answer. Yeah I. When you were talking about the using the lens and stuff I just kept thinking about how much if feels like a hit almost like a hitchcock thing like that idea of just locking into place and not giving you that what you said no reason the leave no reason to look away no reason to focus like just like the way he his movies can do that to you and you in the movies you work with with David fincher do that. So I again, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. Thanks so much listening as always you can email any questions, comments, concerns, thoughts, what we're doing right what we're doing wrong to editor at no film school dot Com or. At no film school dot Com I always want to hear from you. Please like rate subscribe to the podcast, leave a comment follow us on facebook follow us on twitter head over to know film school dot Com check out what else we have going on there and explore the rest of our interview podcasts. We have a few coming up around now we have one with Don Porter who made a documentary called the way I see it about photographers who have. Amazing access to the office of the president of the United States. So that's really revelatory and fascinating and so is her story We also have a great interview one of my favorites that I've ever done with filmmakers behind peanut butter, Falcon about. Working your way into the industry from all the way on the outside it's really the opposite of Jeff Story, but no less important both of them. So informative and and all the all of them. So humble and honest and forthcoming, and I think that You know it's as I always say. I feel so lucky to get to talk to these people and for them to open up to us, and it's because of all of you because they want to help you guys understand what they're up to and what they've done and how they've gone about what they're doing so. Please keep keep coming back and talk to you later.

David I bladerunner Film School David Fincher Oscars US Ingmar Bergman USC Jeff Cronin David You panavision writer Ridley USC Film School George Gentleman Oskar Editor in chief London Home School
Spoiler Specials: Mank

Slate's Culture Gabfest

58:19 min | 6 months ago

Spoiler Specials: Mank

"We're all shopping for essentials online these days and now you can get rewarded for it with the bank of america cash rewards credit card. You can choose to earn three percent. Cashback online shopping essentials. The essentials have never felt more rewarding visit bank of america dot com slash more rewarding to apply now copyright. Twenty twenty bank of america corporation charlotte. Father hello and welcome to another slate spoiler special podcast this week. We are going to be talking about manque. The new david fincher movie about herman mankiewicz and the process of writing the script of citizen kane and joining me to talk about. This movie is matthew desam. Who is slates browbeat editor contributor. I think of you as slate. Sort of wild man on tap crazy crazy uncle in the attic. You do nights and weekends coverage. And i always know that slate after dark is going to be somewhere interesting because matthew decima. Is there another reason. I wanted to have you on for manque is because you are a hollywood historian. You have a book. On clyde brockman the silent comedian and director you. General seem to be interested in hollywood history and things from from that period And so you have written a factor fiction browbeat post about what's true and what's not in bank and that's a lot of stuff to go through right there. That's not all we'll talk about but it's some of the things that we'll talk about and in general are just interested as a my in this period of a classic hollywood so one of the things i wanna do in this spoiler special is to get into you know how this movie deviates from history and condenses history in does defiant things with what actually happened but of course we are also talking about it as a work of art and fictional documents. So i think. I'll start off the way i usually do with these spoiler special podcast and just ask. What did you think thumbs up thumbs down. Would you send your friends to this. Movie thumbs sideways. Guess it would depend on the friends. It's a it's a really beautiful looking movie. The photography the documentaries gorgeous it is entertaining for the most part. It gets kind of in the weeds in some of the hollywood stuff. I would say if you're someone who knows a little bit about hollywood history. You'll love it if you're somebody knows a little bit more about how would history the people where you're just shaking your fist at the screen but But yeah. I think it's a pretty well made movie. Yeah that brings up the question of who it was made for which. I'd like to talk about a little bit later on. I mean you. And i would seem to be in. This movie's ideal target audience right. We both have seen citizen kane. I'm sure many many times we've probably read biographies of many of the major figures that appear in this movie. Were sort of like fertile nerd ground for this movie to take seed in and yet at the same time as you say people of that ilk are the ones that are most likely to notice what doesn't belong in the movie and And the stuff that that it gets wrong Yeah i think. I went into make with such high expectations between really being a pretty big david. Fincher fan i mean not blindly. So he's made some movies. I don't like but certainly i think he's one of the more exciting filmmakers out there and him taking on this subject matter with this cast seemed so fascinating that i experienced it as a little bit disappointing. Just because as i say in my review slate it's diffuse like this is a movie that doesn't quite know what it wants to be about and it's about a lot of different things at once and i think while being seduced by the beautiful surfaces of it and the look and sound that will talk about i kind of find myself around twenty minutes in when the first fake real change glitz appeared in the corner because of them but around the timing of that first real change. I found myself thinking. Where is this movie actually going. And whose story does it want us to focus on in care about. So let's get into Just exactly what. It is trying to cover. I i started off by saying that. It's about the process of writing citizen kane. It's actually about a very specific. Moment is one of those bio-pics that's about a very specific slice of its subjects life. Can you talk about where. Herman bank with is at in his life and career and just geographically as we start this movie. Yeah he is At the beginning of the movie we see him in victorville california which is a town small town in the middle of nowhere checking into a ranch and the reason he is there is because he has broken his leg. horribly In an automobile accident he was actually semi fleeing los angeles. Like it was. There was a deal where his wife didn't actually know he was planning to go to new york and he caught a ride with. This guy broke long story short. He checked into this ranch for a month and a half and over that period produced one of the. I mean we'll get into the office of questions but a drafter citizen kane and it focuses on you know that slice and then there are flashbacks that go back as far as nineteen thirty of the events that brought make which to writing the script. I guess right so the basic timeframes were in our the the present day of the movie right. Which is i guess. Nineteen forty came through march of nineteen forty eight when they were doing that writing. Right when he's holed up in this kind of cottage in the desert in victorville california with and this becomes important. The people he's holed up with he's holed up with a german nurse. Who's there to take care of his leg. Which is attraction. I and it slowly gets a little bit more usable. And with this typist this young british woman who was assigned to be his secretary who he dictates the screenplay to and as you say in real life he was also hold up with john houseman. The actor and producer and former collaborator with orson welles. Who was sort of storming on the screen. Play with him right there in the cabin the movie makes that a different setup and has housman just sort of come in for occasional browbeating sessions. About how the writing is going. It's kind of wild. it's like they just. They didn't know what to do with housman. If he was in the other scenes there is a character which he would have been because realize he was he and Make which each had one bedroom in a two bedroom suite and we're in the commentary working on the movies and this one. They put the nursing one bedroom. The read alexander the typist in the other end set up in the living room and then they sent housman off to bike another hotel. But it's clearly. It's one of those things where it's like. These will work better with fewer characters so let's imagine pretext to remove character right and as you point out it also makes housman have more expository role in the narrative right because he can come swooping in and say. Hey how's the script writing going and then deliver his verdict on how it's going in fact maybe we should drop a clip in here Of of that visit that house would makes early on to the victorville ranch house. Because i think it starts to get into the question of the he's writing and whether it's It's something that's gonna be film -able and sort of both what makes it such a radical script when it is eventually turned into a movie. And what makes everybody think it's going to be such failure. All i am saying is no an right like that houseman. I had the narrative is one big circle at cinnamon roll neither straight line pointing to the nearest exit. You cannot capture a man's entire life in two hours or you can hope to leave the impression that nobody expects. Shakespeare people aren't spending harder and twenty five cents. See macbeth maestro. The dodgers ace boy did my best do beth. Don't be fooled is a showman oscar reveling in sleight of hand. Save yourself the trouble. Be done in sixty. He'll get this and the audience will to stop worrying. Have a pickle. I think you're not hungry. Haven't been since we got here. Giulio right todd. Aim low so. Yeah so this clip kind of gets into some of this stuff that. I found a little frustrated about the movie. Because you can hear that conversation. It's one of those bio-pic conversations that exists for the subject of the film to sound like a genius which means that other people sound like less genius and in this case john houseman. Sounds like a fool but he was not It's set up so that make woods gets to be smart guy. Who reminds john. Houseman that orson welles. Once made a macbeth production and has been sort of says. I was showmanship. But that was actually. That was john houseman project. It was his concept to do this. Wpa play macbeth with an all black cast. He brought wells into directed He wasn't the guy who was trying to steer people away from doing sort of you know intellectual. He was a a theater director. He wouldn't have made this argument. He wouldn't have not remembered macbeth because it was his thing. But the script need smiechowicz to see more than other people so someone who was there turns into is changing somebody who he was not in real life so that make could get that credit and that happens a lot of different seasons when different characters in this right and that actually brings up a sort of conceptual thing about this movie that i should have set up top. Which is that the script was written or at least. The original version of the script was written by jack. Venture david fincher spotter. Who died in two thousand three and this was a lifetime dream of his that he would write the script about the writing of citizen kane. Which more strongly than this movie does want to make this very anti wells argument. Right that That essentially it was herman mankiewicz entirely who had written the script and that orson welles is being a credit hog in putting his name on the script as well as he did. This is also largely the argument that pauline kale made in her controversial book. Cain about the writing of the script and it seems to me. And he said in interviews that david venture has less of an axe to grind about this But the boobies still does seem to want to sideline wells in that way. It doesn't ridicule wells. Were make him look insignificant but he's a small part of the movie right. I mean he the actor who plays him tom. Burke appears seen mainly from behind on the phone briefly pops up in a couple of scenes in the cabin but is really not a very major figure in a movie about citizen kane. And it's not with housman like you can say they're making this person. Say things he would never have said seem stupider than he actually seems to have been in real life with wells. They don't go that route but they just amid a lot of stuff about it like the in this movie in the flashback. You see where he gets hired two to right citizen kane. You see the automobile crash and then you see make traction and wells comes over and says we need to talk and the next thing you know. He's working on citizen kane in the invocation is well. He's hired this guy to write this hearse bio-pic but that's not what happened. Wells came madman traction and hired him to write radio scripts for him. They worked together. On a couple of mercury theater scripts and then they spent like a month and a half batting ideas around trying to come up with a feature screenplay that they could work together And it doesn't assert. The movie doesn't assert that that didn't happen but it doesn't show it And in its place you have this stack of notebooks growing in victorville as as a detailed script but he went out there with like three hundred pages of notes from their story conferences and stuff. It was not a creative project. Where at a certain point as Said talking about an make what's to they just. Were not getting anywhere talking to over anymore. So they went off to. Nick went off to write a script But that initial part of the creative process that's part of the creative process and they just admit it because it's sort of like you say it's sort of pulling kale theory of it And it seems like ventures that jack ventures version of it probably was just adaptation of raising cain like. That's that seems to be kind of how david fincher describes the draft from the ninety s. Right i mean. I i think watching this movie something that kept occurring to me. Was that the active writing a particularly active writing a screenplay that so collaborative in nature is something. That's really hard to dramatize right. And i'm sure it's all the harder to dramatize if you're actually true to how complex and collaborative it is and to what degree it is. You know people rewriting heaps of notes that we've talked about in rooms by other people you know that is just dramatically inert so i'm sure part of it was not just to grind an acts about who wrote citizen kane but to create a unitary character narrative that could they could carry the story. I mean exactly like as a as a narrative. It's not watertight but it's not bad. It has these two parallel plotlines that eventually intersect one showing the writing a citizen kane and the other one showing the events that lead which to betray hurston. that way. Yeah i wanna get to those events but since they take a while to come up in the movie he'll put them off for now and talk about the flashback structure which i think these are the strongest parts of the movie so when we're not in victorville with a guy and traction You know drinking and trying to singlehandedly right the citizen kane script. We cut back to hollywood in the early thirties. And this is a whole different kind of atmosphere right a whole different period and is a very people kind of world unlike the empty world of victorville. And and there's a lot going on there and it's it's really fun so let's let's talk about the first. Flashback going back to nineteen thirty where we suddenly see a much younger mankiewicz Play gary oldman. I don't think we've mentioned that yet. Anybody who seen even the trailer to this knows. That is a wits And we see him entering. I believe the first time we see him in the flashback. He's entering the paramount studios. Isn't that right. Yeah yeah it's paramount in nineteen thirty and it's that classic now we're an old. Hollywood flashback thing where he walks through the backlot past the extras from the circus movie. That they're always filming vintage backlots. Just in case you needed to know that it was a flashback. I actually thought this was kind of fun technique. You see this typewritten. Legend at the bottom of the screen. Right as if we were reading the script to manque as we're watching and you see you. Know flashback thirty. You mentioned the cigarette burns earlier. The the real change marks that they have in the of sort of imitation analog stuff in that and the The typewriter thing is another one of those one of those details but but yeah it's so it's it's paramount nineteen thirty and we get a scene in which charles leader is from new york. And he's received a telegram from. Herman quits encouraging. Come out there and work. It's a telegram. That actually went to ben hecht but it's the sort of famous thing that says millions are to be made here in your only competition is idiots. Don't this get around. It was one of the part of this kind of great migration new york writers to los angeles in the round the time but the movie started having sound in them basically and there's a whirlwind shot where we meet all these people in the paramount writer's room you know Estee perlman as their kaufman. Charles macarthur and a fictional character named shelley metcalf. Who will get back to later. I guess that is another those phil nerd scenes. Where it's like if you know who those guys are. It's kind of fun. But i can imagine that being very wordy and why are we hearing all these dudes names. None of them really become major characters. Well it's yeah and actually like that was something. I watched the movie watching that scene. It's kind of an amazing little lum when caught deft exactly but the way in which those conversations are written so that everybody gets to say their full name is one of those What's the phrase in elegant variation or whatever it's like with a as day problem in there like they have literally ask me and he's like oh that's fine and then trump mccarthy say the whole thing and then Mister kaufman georgia's fine. Whatever it's like a They found in a different way for each one of those three people to have a pretext for explicitly. Kidding me full names. Bio-pic seen will never not now remind me of the walk hard scene. Where all the beatles meet. Remember they meet with with john c reilly in i guess with the maharishi right and they all introduce each other by their full names at all times. That's the one. And i'm john lennon of the beatles. Yeah that there's a lot of the parts of bank that may be grown. The most were the ones where it sort of followed bio-pic convention those closely and there are definitely some parts of it where you're like okay. Yeah that's that's what these movies do at this point in the movie. Yeah and there's not really that much purpose to to that paramount scene except to establish that you know in this earlier time mike was part of this writer's room was sort of holding court. In a way i think was regarded as one of the big wigs of this writer's room And was also an inveterate gambler. You see him making ridiculous bets on whether a coin is gonna come up heads or tails. was a big drinker stripper with pasties on in the room with mr typist. So it's kind of establishing that there's this dissolute world of writer's room guys at paramount And there was also a little a movie history solace in there that i saw film twitter exploding about do you have anything to say about about that moment. I missed this. When i was writing the fact versus fiction just just flooded right by me. But there's a scene where you have them go to a story conference with the southern just von sternberg who is just there because they like. Just sternberg out there. There are celebrities that show this movie for no story reason besides like someone whose name you recognize should be here. So this is the person But they pitch a movie that they describe as a frankenstein. The wolfman all rolled up into one and frankenstein is nineteen thirty one. The woman is not until nineteen forty one and nineteen thirty here and then sort of this is of paramount story thing paramount being at that point kind of a prestige house Stern at the picture. Don't wanna do it. And they talk about universal's reputation is like a low budget that's where low budget it's made but it wasn't like that that was later in the decade. That's almost a moment of an unforced error like they didn't need to go into that much detail of the story and make that mistake it. Did it actually got completely by me at the time and didn't bother me at all but it seems like one of the many moments that this movie is narrating out so hard that it kinda gets in its own way set in the idea of classic hollywood some of it but i will say that some of the better stuff in the flashback in some of the characters that really come to life come up in the next scene at san simeon castle. And that's where we get into my favorite part of the movie. Which is the stuff to do with with marion davies and william randolph hearst. And their relationship to to filmmaking. So charles letter as you say played by. joseph cross. is this young writer who is brought into the fold of these these writers room dudes at paramount and he happens to drop this invitation to make saying. Why don't you come to my aunt's party right. Which seems like a dull enough affair until you realize that his aunt is actually marion davies the mistress of randolph hearst. And who was also at that point a movie star at that point starring in sort of historical epics produced by hearst. And so then. I guess the very next scene after that right is when mike drunkenly falls onto the luggage art and they. They dragged him off his answer. Mian there at the glendale train station and he shows up. It's it's actually not entirely clear looking at again. He he shows up. It's like a convertible driven by two other people who i don't think characters we see again and he's like reclining atop the roof which has been pushed back like he literally just kind of rolls in already passed out and then manage it. Stand up long enough to pass out on a luggage cart and then wakes up in this massive bedroom in san simeon Where he's been rolled into bed and had a shoes take off or whatever and then we. Yeah we entered this sort of Her swirled a in that way through. Nice enough him just sort of waking up from being blackout drunken having no idea where he is An from there he of wanders out outside where he can actually buy a scream and wonders outside to see what's going on and that's where he meets marion davies who is in the middle of doing test shots for some sort of western for which she has been tied to a stake in apparently going to be set on fire by native americans or something. And that's that's what i wondered. If that was a specific movie. I'm not familiar enough with marion. Davies filmography to know if she was ever burned wearing an evening gown. Burn steak or not. I couldn't find it the dialogue in it where the guy shooting the thing says. It's a home movie. But one of his home movies and points to her stored ever. So i think i think the implication is not but it's a real movie so much as just some kind of vani shoot. That william hurst is paying for to get her. Some other part probably right. I mean to a certain degree. I get the impression that hearst's unit i think it was called cosmopolitan was its own independent operation right. I mean it happened at mgm. It was kind of within the walls of mgm but not of mgm production deal. I think like like amblin has with universal or whatever that sort of that sort of thing right and that's why it seemed unrealistic to me to have my own little dorky. Moment that thalberg and mayor would be sitting there on the set watching this screen. Test of marion davies. It seems like that would be something that they would be far too important and busy with other productions at mgm to have both gone and sat in on the shoot. Yeah i. i wasn't clear on that. I thought the location maybe was that they were there for the party. And just we're staying the weekend You know that it does doesn't seem impossible to me that i would have invited them up and then scheduled something but but yeah. It was i i wasn't that seems a little bit muddled as far as what the power relationships in that in that situation are i guess. Yeah i agree that that part seems a bit cluttered. But i think that the strong stuff in that scene is both freed as marion davies. Who i think is really the big surprise of the movie right. I mean just the degree to which she she busts out of that typical autumn new role that you see in and the brooklyn accent really convincingly and just makes mary davies into a into a charming complicated character and also charles. Dance is william randolph hearst. Great performance from him. Yeah a really great really not a role that could have been done. I mean that could have gone very badly. I guess he has a lot of There's a lot of speeches that with another actor would not have gone. Well and dance can deliver those beautiful. He has that just sort of cold authority to him. The time their relationship he has with maximes to have something more to it than just power and exploitation at that moment that he's riding along in the it seems like it's a it's on the train tracks right. He's on the tracks that have been constructed for the for the dalai shot. They're doing they're doing a shot of horses riding into the either set the steak on fire or save her from it. I don't know that's the other thing about it is that she's tied up to that stake and they're not shooting anything that has anything to do with it over in the fields with horses but could have been in her trailer having a cigarette when when manque is walking alongside the dalai talking to her. I i think you get a good glimpse of the relationship that will become important later on where is called a court jester at one point. I think that you know. He's somebody who wit and charm keep endearing him to hearst and keep inviting him to the parties even though as we'll see he's constantly screwing up kind of forgetting his place. There yeah exactly which was right. Which is what happened to him. Over the course of that decade he was like which was part of that. Social circle eventually drank his way out of that social circle although probably not quite as spectacularly as. He doesn't all right. So to yankee out of that timeframe the way this movie is constantly doing and back to victorville and the cabin where the writing is happening. There's a bunch of stuff going on in the subplots here and this is a place. Where honestly if i had been. You know the john houseman called in to give my opinion of the script. I would have said. Do we really need quite so much intrigue in victorville you know it really is enough for me to wonder whether the drunken broken leg bank is going to finish the script or not and the interplay between him and wells and. I don't think that. I need to know all of this side story about you. Know the typist and her husband and the nurse. But you want to get into some of the drama. That's happening In that story. Yeah they basically as you've said writing a screenplay is not a great doesn't make for great cinema so The section of the script. They wanted some drama to be happening. So they've they've created these sorts of plots one of them is the typist Read alexander was In in real life apparently recently arrived a refugee from europe. As was her husband in this her husband is in raf pilot which allows make which to basically put his foot in his mouth expressing his is the latest views. So she doesn't like manque because he doesn't think that the brits are gonna win world war two Disease quite unsympathetic right. I mean he's not terribly sensitive about the fact that her husband may have been shot down right. Yeah exactly. so there's this thing with them she thinks make is lazy. He doesn't think he should be drinking. Disapproves of that. There's a subplot works out over. The course of this where v nurse eventually tells her gives her this sort of speech about how mak- wits rescued all these german refugees in. He's a good man in an adult and if he wants to drink he should be allowed to drink. Like there's there are these. These like mini arcs about rita alexander and make would sort of coming to care for each other not romantically but kind of you know reaching a region on understanding and that entire arc is just. It's on the screen. I thought i didn't. I didn't think that worked at all. And similarly i mean we talked before about the stuff they did with housman but It's the same thing it's housman and make which would not have disagreed over where that script should be aiming But they have to do something in these seen. So they've created that kind of conflict in those story arcs. I think were some of the weakest of the movie. Yeah i think the only drama. We really need in the cabin. Besides the writing was him trying to get into the the second. All right i mean this movie is is pretty powerful. I think it's not a movie about addiction specifically he doesn't have some sort of arc of him struggling with addiction. He just simply is an addict throughout the movie and never really tries to stop being but other people do try to stop him and so there's some ongoing somewhat comic drama about him managing to get into whatever intoxicating substances are in the cabin which includes this pain medication. It's been put there because of his leg. Yeah it's The whiskey laced with second or something and as soon as he drinks it. He just cox out. I'm not really sure what that was supposed to. I mean it seems to me that as a system for stopping somebody from drinking. You're just assuming. I mean all you're doing ensuring that once they drink. They're useless. The they made the alcohol more powerful and more debilitating entirely. Certain how that's going to help citizen kane. Getting rid of the addiction treatment in nineteen forty was not anywhere and it's very very beginning days The next flashback. I think is interesting. Both in and of itself. I like this bid at mgm. That's coming up. And also it establishes the relationship of mankiewicz to louis b. mayer and irving. Thalberg the mgm. Who are going to end up as you say providing some of his motivation for For getting revenge later on on orson welles so thousand. Thirty four is the date of the next flashback. We've moved up a few years and this time we're not at paramount but at mgm. And this this time we're not in the back lot wachner. Pass the circus set in the walking quickly down narrow corridors of power versus the other and sarkin land thirty. Exactly exactly so. Yeah so we we have her bring his brother. Thank you. It's to mgm. Where he signed by tom. Pelfrey i wanna say very well. I love that character of joe mangku. It's a small part but he really really kills it. Yeah every time. He pops up his relationship to herman is pretty different and He he nails that like the the different demeanor. She has him at different points in their lives. I would say the moment that they break into a conversation at. Lb mayor's office. There's this This fight that. He's in the middle of an employee and i wonder if you know what the specific shout out there is. This was like one of my little film history nerd out moments and there's not enough background that you would. You would ever know unless you had read this exact change but almost word for word. That's an exchange. That mayor had with john gilbert the silent heartthrob Who is sort of on the decline in these days in the in the thirties and was known for you. Know his alcoholism and his paranoia and his His penchant for toting guns around with him at all times and waving a very unstable guy who couldn't stand and they couldn't stand each other and that exchange that they have he's throwing him out and says i'll cut your balls off and then junk hilbert says well even when you do. I'll be more of a man than you are. That's you know. Sort of much cited story about him and john gilbert so that actually embedded in their sort of a story about the end of the silent era in some ways right because that's a great silent star who is just about to be fired by. Ob mayor but in the movie. It's really essentially just in there to show l b mayer's difficult boss and a testy guy who will throw you out of office at the drop of a hat and also we'll turn turn around at at the drop of a hat like the other piece of that is that he comes out just screaming at this guy and immediately is friendly and polite to herman inda just megawatts like just just like we're gonna switch right and very soon after that flips a switch to another famous side of l. Be mayor which is being this kind of sentimental manipulator right because he suddenly bursts in with these guys into the megawatts brothers into a room in which all of mgm talent has been assembled and we see these people who i think. Vaguely are supposed to be greta garbo and shirley temple and i don't even know who they're all supposed to be because nobody's really identified but a bunch of movie star like types are arrayed on risers and he tells them all that they have to have a fifty percent. Pay-cut is that right. What had happened was that Fdr had had the bank holiday. This section by the way it says in the little screenwriting typo thing that it's in nineteen thirty four but it's both just make a wits and going to mgm and the bank holiday were nineteen thirty three i they've just mislabeled this in the film because if that is ninety thirty-three than all the flags move in chronological order. But that's neither here nor there really. Fdr had closed the banks. There was the the bank holiday nuggets march. Nineteen thirty three where they were closed for a while to stop runs on the banks. Because this was that it's wonderful. Life era of everyone trying to withdraw their money at once And mayor of was the first studio has to do this. But not the last went and told his staff they weren't going to be able to make payroll basically that he wanted everyone to take a fifty percent pay cut until the banks reopened for two months or whatever Gave a speech more or less as you make where he just very says families root for each other in good times and take care of each other and bad times. And that's why i'm asking you all to take half your pay for the next two months which they agreed to do and then other studios followed suit to the same thing. A lot of people got a lot less money. Some of the studios paid their employees back after the fact mayor did not although he did swear that he had done it and also believing that scene apparently remark another executive like how do after this like total phony bologna break down and crying on stage for the benefit of i forget who it was it said but somebody who is an mgm possibly executive or or a contract players that the best actor on the jim lot at any given moment was lv mayor. Right i mean he was just this person who is extremely good at bursting into tears on cue in order to get what he wanted from anyone and although i would have objection system characterizations of other figures in this movie i actually think that for what little he sketched in l. B. mayer is great and has played beautifully by arlos howard. I i really believed in in that character. And i saw all those contradictions. That you you read about when you read a biography of mayor irving thalberg on the other hand. One of the most fascinating figures in the history of hollywood gets really unfairly stereotyped. I think in his brief little role as a kind of todi is not what he was at all. I think he's shown. Is this kind of corporate lackey. Who's always looking at the bottom line. And there's a of scenes where he talks to make as if bank were sort of a lowly employees that has to do his bidding and in fact irving thalberg although he had his complications was a tremendous foster of talent Love to throw money at the right project and just was a way more interesting person than this movie gives them credit for. So we're at this birthday party and the hallberg's have just come back from berlin is on the rise everyone. It's another scene where they have. You know ninety cameras of people that are just barely identified. Like i think charlie chaplin is. They're playing happy birthday. Of in any event they talk politics in marion. Davies is in her sort of a naive way manages to piss off everyone in the room. By i talking about hitler somebody who should be taking seriously because so many german support him and then by leaking innocently the information that rex tugwell who was an fdr cabinet member. Who's also there. That party leaking the information that he was a cabinet pick that her supposedly helped make that if you had asked him basically that her suggestion. Fdr's cabinet is thing. She kind of says in conversation she served leaves the party not in disgrace. But just like. I'm going to go take a walk but make wits has been listed. She says it has been impressed with it and follows her outside and they have a conversation walking through the grounds of sensitive to this. When i think of the movie. This is the scene. That i remember. I i don't know that it's necessarily the best scene but between the just the beautiful backdrop and just the strangeness of them walking next to these cages full of or kind of pens full of giraffes and elephants In full evening gear while they have this conversation it really to me brought it wasn't actually filmed at san simeon. I think they found some buildings to address to look like sense in me and but it gave me that feeling of time travel and being transported to how how strange those parts must have been and also i just think there's these are the two best written characters and best performed characters in the movie manque himself and marion davies. So the idea that are forging this kind of platonic friendship and that it's somewhat based around. You know their shared a misfit status in the in the castle is is both interesting dramatically in itself and it sets up the writing of citizen kane right because the idea is that in part it is this image of the kept woman in the in the castle that starts to inspire him for his canes screenplay. Yeah absolutely and i agree with you. That's one of the scenes that just plays beautifully Oldman and just. I think really good chemistry on screen and really get the dynamic of that sort of relationship right. So that scene establishes their relationship which will be one of the hearts of the movie going forward and also begins to establish the political. Clout that william randolph. Hearst has which becomes really important later on matt. I'm going to pause the conversation for just a second for a word from our sponsor this week. Electric cars some people think they're weird. But you know what else people thought was weird. Social media ridesharing viral dance challenges and. Oh yeah podcasts. So weird right. They'll never catch on. They said it's just a trend. They said but now look at you. You're listening to a podcast and just like podcasts. Electric cars are normal. Now they have longer ranges so you can take them just about anywhere you wanna go and there are plenty of charging stations along the way and faster charging times. So it's easy to charge up whenever you need to. And lots of affordable models and less routine maintenance mean electric cars may actually help you save money electric cars. They're normal now. Learn more at normal now dot com. You finally decided to learn how to ice skate. So you order the essentials. Every ice skater needs a pair of blades. A new helmet and a good set of kneepads. And you used your bank of america. Cash rewards credit card choosing to earn three percent cashback on online shopping rewards that you put towards the cost of an essential piece of post skating recovery heating pad visit bank of america dot com slash more rewarding to apply now copyright twenty twenty bank of america corporation. This episode of the slate spoiler special is brought to you by usual. Winds usual wines are winds for the modern drinker. Each bottle is six point. three ounces. which is a heavy poor or about a glass and a half of wine. That means there's no more pouring wind down the sink when you don't wanna finish the bottle and because of the single serve format and the bottle design usual as always fresh. So there's no more flat bubbly or stale rosa. Usual wines are made from world class. Abbas that's american viticultural areas in california like napa sonoma and santa barbara and they're made with minimal intervention zero sugar and zero additives. Usual wines are fermented until no more. Sugars are in the wine this insures. the wines are dry as possible and lower in calories. Usual was nice enough to send me a sample of wine. So i can recommend one of their winds. It's very easy to remember. The name is standard red and It's just a delicious red. Blend that I drank over. The holidays with all for thanksgiving food utilizes a special holiday product. Coming this fall usual reserve. It's an ultra premium limited edition. Mount vitre cabernet sauvignon. It's their most special wine yet. And it's just in time for the holidays hailing from one of the most celebrated plots of land in all of napa. This governor neon is concentrated rich with just enough grip gift it to someone special. Keep it all for yourself. The holidays as usual their website at www dot usual winds dot com and. Use the discount code spoiler for eight dollars off your first order. Try your first class on us. Okay back to our conversation after that We've got a little bit more nonsense in victorville where bank his started breaking into the second all bottles he gets in trouble for that There's more questions about whether welles is gonna fire him for not finishing the screenplay on time can i say as a writer who's constantly writing on deadline and you're the same disturbed by the idea that his ninety day deadline got reduced to sixty days. And he's supposed to just. I mean one third and he's supposed to just roll with it. They had him locked up in a hotel. I will say this if anybody wants to. Send me to like a a luxurious and deserted ranch for ninety days and then tell me it's really only for sixty days i will somehow get over. I'll even have my leg. You know maybe maybe depends on the ranch maybe not three like make so i guess maybe that should bring us to the next big subplot which becomes the driver of the rest of the movie. Really which is one thousand nine hundred thirty four gubernatorial race for california It's pretty late in the movie for such a major plot to enter. Like if i were giving script notes on the script. I would sort of say. Can we introduce upton sinclair and this governor stuff a little earlier but will you catch us up on. The governor's yeah so It kind of comes out in the scene before it kind of comes out in the birthday scene a part of the political conversations about upton sinclair and they establish basically that hearst hates him but claire being the muckraking novelist he would have been known at this point for exposing the meat industry Yeah so that's nineteen o six. He writes the jungle and becomes sort of a celebrated muckraker By this point he has had like seven careers basically By thirties he had he continued muckraking. Got into some trouble over fair that he had Novels wrote political stuff had been writing for years and was essentially just like a celebrity socialist. Let's say living in california. This point and the democrats recruited him to run for governor against frank merriam who is running for reelection. I think even been the lieutenant governor in the existing governor had died and then he become governor so he hadn't actually ever won election. Marian and sinclair being clare was like sure i'll do it. And he wrote this pamphlet with his plans for the state which was called the end poverty in california and basically his idea. Was that at this point. There was a was a lot of agricultural land was kind of lying fallow because of the economic depression and he wanted to seize that land and basically do a california style. Wpa program where you know. Homeless and unemployed people would be hired to work at and factories that were being you know falling into tax liens and things would also be seized by the state. The idea was that you would create these sort of self sustaining communal communities out of the unused resources of the state of california To do that he was doing some things that just would like. He wanted to pay these people working on these farms in script and had not thought through the complications of like the state of california deciding to issue. Its own money. There are a lot of good ideas in it. There were a of things that were not as well thought through but there were enough things that would have cost the visitors of california a lot of money that the entire state mobilized against it and not all of his plans that pie in the sky he wanted to progressive income tax. Do you want to get rid of the sales tax. It was a grab bag of sort of socialist reforms and some really ambitious reaching stuff with the community farm projects he wanted to do. And as you get into in your in your factor fiction about this movie it is actually true that mayer and thalberg mobilized against him right and also true that they decided to create these fake news. Kind of reels interviewing people about who they would vote for that had been staged all that actually basically everyone with any money in the state did everything they could to make. Sinclair did not become governor and that included harry chandler in the los angeles times it included her step the chronicle it included mayor and fallbrook. But this in this in the movie and make it sort of sets it up that all berg is creating propaganda and ludi. Mayor doesn't necessarily know that it's happening. But that wasn't that wasn't actually the case that everybody was involved. It was kind of an all hands on deck thing for the the capitalist class right if anything mayor was more conservative right i think he was the chair of the republican party and his his area. I mean he was like he was buddies with all kinds of politicians. He was he what he one of the things that he did. I mean they did all kinds of shit but one of the things that they did was Mayor actually it wasn't mayor. I it was the whoever was running fox at that time. Let it be known that. If upton sinclair were elected governor huby moving the studio to florida immediately And then the other shoe starts saying the same thing and then mayor. I think it was mayor went to his employees. Basically if you want to keep your jobs. Frank merriam has to win so as of now. You're all supporting the frank merriam campaign and i'm going to be taking donations out of your paychecks for down the line people They if you worked at mgm at that point you were you donating to marry him People who work paid weekly Were able to opt out of that and and some did in this movie. It set up. The megawatts does not donate to the campaign. But there's no evidence that that happened. Well this is something that you write about really. Interestingly and your factor fiction which is this movie has a tremendous amount of interest for story reasons in setting up wits as this sort of leftist firebrand and a little bit along with marion davies. Right that they are the only ones who realize the danger of hitler and europe and he seems to be the only one at the studio who stands up against this idea of creating fake news to kill upton sinclair's key campaign and all of that appears to have been just invented whole cloth for the movie to give mak- it's really good motive to To destroy william rental i. it's i mean and like throughout this movie tries to lift as much from citizen kane as it can. Because why wouldn't you and so. It has to have something in the victorville scenes where make trying to regain something. He's lost or whatever and and this makes an argument what he lost his political innocence or his faith in capital. I'm not. I'm not sure exactly but it doesn't quite you can see what it should do. Structurally but it doesn't quite work. Because for one thing i think that the gubernatorial campaign in that story is more interesting than the writing a citizen kane. I don't just as a subject of for a movie a lot more happening but to get into the guts of that make. What's not necessarily like the right. You know The right knife to cut that food i guess. Maybe that's why that's seen although it stylistically gorgeous that that scene of the election night party right where Megawatt shows up. He gets drunk. They bet on who's going to win the election. And we're sort of cutting in between these you know leaderboards on the wall showing who's ahead and the increasingly drunken bank and know there's sort of one of those montages with lots of dissolves two different neon signs and glasses of cocktails and things like that right and it's it's a wonderful pastiche of that style filmmaking of the time but dramatically it feels very muddled to me because it's something that we didn't know that cared strongly about until probably ten minutes before in the movie right when he caught a quick glimpse of upton sinclair speech doesn't it doesn't seem to kind of to to have the dramatic weight that it would need to have to be more than just a stylish stylish montage more than enough for an entire movie in that campaign And if you wanted to focus on bergen and mayor you could do it too but it just. It's just out of place. They're like he was not he wasn't that guy. And there's nothing in the movie until he sees that sinclair speech to suggest that he was at all interested in any of this This stuff it gives him another reason. I think that the screenwriters know that motivation is a little bit thin because they give also make quits a personal reason to feel. It's a betrayal. Which is they created this character of shelley metcalf who is a test director and sort of we see in the nineteen thirty s kind of like a on with the algonquin set. Who is the guy who thalberg actually hires to shoot these fake newsreels. What these newsreels were is phony man on the street interviews about who you are gonna vote for in the gubernatorial campaign. It was just a series of interviews with various supposed california voters you put a great link in your factor fiction piece to one of those newsreels. Maybe we could listen to a little clip of one of these stage. Newsreels of who are you voting for gentleman. I am the enquiring cameraman. All day i travel around california the highways and the byways the downtown district's the residents districts factory districts all districts. I stopped people on the street. I pry into offices and shops and stores and restaurants. I knock on the doors of homes all for the purpose of digging out voters of california to express their views for your edification remember. They're not actors they're nervous. You'd be scared to death yourself the first time you face the camera and microphone if they seem awkward bear with them. I don't rehearse them impartial. I ask them questions only to help them. Express themselves more clearly. I thank you now for the votes from communists. Housewives jobless men butchers bakers and candlestick makers. There's even corner hidden in the group but you'll have to find him out for yourself all ready for the votes. Would you mind telling the who your favorite candidates for governor claire. And what is your principal reason for providing well but Different man was different is long as we're talking about extraneous stories that we're just shoehorned into to give more drama. I really. i felt bad for the fictional shelley. Metcalf in his life and death was just abused in such a utilitarian way to advance someone else's story like we don't even know who that character is except for literally hearing his name in the writer's room scene early on until suddenly we're getting frantic calls from his wife that he's gone off with a gun and he's going to kill himself because he shot these fake newsreels and he feels guilty about it. I just to me. I had this feeling like am i supposed to have been carrying about shelley metcalf all this time and to me. That was just a poor piece of of screen writing like this needed. A serious edit. We didn't we should mention. It's two hours and twelve minutes long. This movie which in itself i mean. I'm not against a long movie but it could easily have been twenty minutes shorter. You can reverse engineer the notes that that lead to the creation of that i think Which is that you. you can't have it be. That mega wits betrays the hearse just because of the fake newsreels. That's not enough because you're not establishing that they have to give them another motivation. That motivation is well. What if these fake newsreel screwed over somebody. That cared about okay fine. So they said of the mic matt. Mcgrath thing and then it's like well. Is that really enough. A reason for metcalf to kill himself. No we're going to give him parkinson's too like it's just about you feel like it's like it's like one piece of it requires the next one and then before you know it you have a guy showing his shaking hand and Just just out of nowhere spot with this guy having a hard time dealing with a terminal diagnosis Yeah that's something. If maybe if this was a ten episode series or something we can have a whole shelley. Metcalf subplot you start to care about him but it just it started to feel very jury rigged. It's you can see the scaffolding there you can kind of see. Okay we're gonna we're going up this turn this motivation. Dial a little further here regardless of whether or not this development makes any sense for for the story we're telling you and the guy who actually did make these reels like the way it set up and make is Metcalf is offered the opportunity to step up to directing The guy who really directed these Junior didn't have any qualms about it and and used it to step up to directing. I mean it was. This really makes people seem much that many of the people come up less cynical than the actual historical people were And not just make it so from here. There's basically two sections of film to go. There's a section in victorville that traces all the different people trying to tune. It's and make what's not to write the script every scene. We comeback victory for the while. A new person comes out to see him to tell him this So charles leader visits and tries to convince me not to write the script joe. Anchorage visits and tries to convince make to write the script of mary. Davies visits confronts. Make over the script. It's just one after another and between those scenes we have scenes that are showing basically make losing control of his life in hollywood After metcalf has died. There's the second we talked about where he bets at the trocadero and we have the deficit metcalf coat with that And then is the final section which cuts between this circus party. Nine hundred seven cents simeone which is in this thing the final break between mega wit's end hurston davies and the finally the fight over who wrote citizen kane is the other thing that's cut with so you have sort of accomplish between hearst and make a wits that is escalating and crashes at the very end of the movie in one thread of the plot in one. You have finally this conflict between orson welles and make wits over. Who's going to get credit for the script that crashes goes back and forth between those two things in the kind of classic intercut to things that are moving at about the same pace towards a climax structure right and once again i feel like i'm much more comfortable with this movie and i think is more comfortable in itself when it's in the thirties flashback mode. Then when it's trying to create drama out of what's happening in victorville some of these individual visits especially the visit from his his younger brother. Joe who at this point has has risen above herman in the hierarchy of of hollywood right and has become a power player himself. And i think that's that's quite a good scene between them. It shows that changed power dynamic but also the affection that they still have for each other the the visit of marion davies is also interesting especially the idea which i think is true that she was not offended by the portrayal of her citizen kane. Or you know. She believed rather manx protestations. That susan alexander the not talented opera singer wife. In cain was was based on her He denied that and it seems to be the case that she was not the direct inspiration. There was another kept woman Of some industrialised rather who actually had an opera career that there was an opera house that was built for someone. So that was i. Think during the sort of legal wrangling. When this was about to be released that was something that they leaned heavily on that this could not possibly be hers because there was this public story of Another mistress whose life match more closely to susan alexander's life in in citizen kane. But that said. I think there's one of the visits in this later period. You were talking about where. There's you know a series of victorville to convince him not to write the doesn't work fairly dramatically at all. And that's orson welles visit which is really the first time we see him as a as a full on character not not merely a menacing voice over the phone saying when's my screenplay gonna be ready But this scene which he comes and and pitches a big fit over. Who's going to get credit for the screenplay and start to throw around furniture incidentally in a way that inspires banquets to to write the scene of citizen kane destroying a room full of furniture when his wife leaves. That scene really seemed to me like it. Parachuted out of nowhere. And that it took what had been zero tension subplot just up to eleven in far too short of a time and i didn't believe the relationship or the characters. Yeah it it really doesn't. It feels like there must be some scenes missing there because essentially you have a a very cordial relationship between wells and make quits Up to that point and then just out of nowhere. wells' is offended and furious that make which is asking for credit. I mean it goes from zero to throwing furniture around in in no time and of course. It's the idea is that this is what inspires the scene in citizen kane. Where cain trash. Susan alexander's room. And then the other idea is that. This is that scene mankiewicz. This is in the structure. This is the point where you know. Wells throws his big tantrum. It's supposed to work the same way and feel the same way and it. It just doesn't work because you know kane. We know why he's doing it. Wells is just sort of like calm down there buddy and we haven't seen him interacted anyway. That would indicate that he has this just ferocious violent temper and then he throws a case of scotch into the fireplace. Or whatever i mean. It's it's it's when you realize like fincher has really dug his own grave trying to make a movie based on the writing of citizen kane that includes a lot of images from citizen kane right and it ends in this moment that is almost a reproduction of something that happens in citizen kane. It just draws attention to the fact that you know. He has as talent as a director as he may be he. He ain't so nineteen forty two. That's the problem. I mean any movie about the making citizen kane. And they're like four or five. I think invites and has to invite comparisons to citizen kane. That just not just strategically. It's probably not a good thing for you to make a movie that invites audiences to to ask themselves. Whether you're is good at this is something that seems worth mentioning as we close. This out is that. I mean it seems like one thing that venture jack venture that is and also whoever else worked on the screenplay subsequently although jack does get sole credit They seem to be very eager. To cram every single herman mankiewicz witticism of which there are a lot in hollywood lore into one screenplay and you know that makes for a lot of good lines but it also means that they often feel sort of wedged in out of nowhere and i wonder if you wanna go over a couple of those moments where you know man cracks wise in some way or another that is actually ripped from the pages of banquets low. There's one towards the end of the circus party in which megawatts pitches like pro pro version of citizen kane to the crowd. And then i open the carpet of william Dining room At the end of that end in the movie he says to the crowd there. Don't worry the white wine came up with the fish which is a very funny thing to say if you've just thrown up but it doesn't necessarily work in that scene Vat comes from a story of quits having dinner at that producer. Arthur j. horn blows house and horrible was kind of notorious for having sort of rigid. Fancy formal dinners. I wasn't actually hearst. Had this sort of idea that was his ranch so they have things like ketchup bottles at the table. That was not a it was the self conscious was not towards formality. It was towards. Let's pretend that were camping But hornblower was very much like you know she's courses and all of that so He threw up in a bathroom. The would coming back into the dining room realized that the people in the dining room could hear him throwing up that was his his remark. And then it ends with this just of course. You've got to dramatize it him. Barking right there in the in the dining room right around because again. That's the thing you're taking this. You're you you need to have this. Be the scene where he goes too far so And then at the very end you have a section where. There's what is set to look like newsreel. Footage of gary oldman standing from his house responding to the fact these won the academy award for best screenplay and he says something like a. I'm happy to accept this award. In the absence of mr wells because the screenplay was written in the absence of mr wilson. I think. I don't think i have that quite right. I also don't think the movie has quite right. But it wasn't something that he actually went out and publicly. It was a sort of later witticism. They said he would have said so. It it's one of many scenes where they take a hermit jamaica would story and turn it into an event. That didn't actually happen. I mean i think this film has like three things is trying to do all of which are very tough and one is it. Wants to be a bio-pic so it tries to cram in as many details and famous things that herman j what said into two and a half hours. It wants to be structured after citizen kane. So it has to cram in as many scenes that resembles franciscan is a canton even when as with wells throwing things around the ranch victorville. They don't entirely make sense. And then it wants to be a movie about california history in hollywood history and it has to it puts in nods like that like the universalroof wolfman stuff. There's there's there's a lot crammed in here Not all of it really serves the movie. I guess i would say yeah. I think it is one of those movies. Where while i enjoy each moment as it was unfurling i found myself asking more and more as it went on. Who is this for. And if it's not for me if it's not even pleasing me the person who's allie. It's maybe the most up know that you could imagine. Then what is it going to be doing for audiences in general and. I think we've seen that so far in the response to the movie. I mean it just opened a few days ago but it seems like it. In general is being regarded with either scorn by film nerds or somewhat puzzlement by the public at large. That's the sweet spot for hollywood and as long as it's the end of the year i mean this is such a weird year that it's hard to speculate about such things but do you think that this movie is Is looking for some sort of awards. Recognition is likely to get any. Maybe for gary oldman. I don't know i would think yes. He fritter oldman those are both killer performances And i could see it picking up some technical stuff just because it is so such an affected similarly of of simone nineteen forties or whatever I don't I would be surprised if it went best picture but it's a really strange year. Who knows right. Yeah it could be. I best picture is going to go to like a string of tiktok videos that we've never heard of because there's nothing will matt. I can't imagine a better person to come in. Talked about bank with me now. I feel like the next time. I sit through it. I'm going to have so much nerd fodder to to tell the person sitting next to me. I really still even faster than the last time. I tried to watch it with a non movie nerd but that was lots of fun i had a blast is the likewise it was a pleasure talking about with the thanks so that does it for our show. Please subscribe to this late. Spoiler special podcast feed and of course if you like this show please rate it and review it. The apple podcasts store. Or wherever. you get your podcasts. And if you have suggestions for movies or tv shows we should spoil in the future or other feedback share with us. You can send it to spoilers at dot com our producer. Today was morgan flannery methodism. Thanks so much for listening and we'll talk to you soon.

housman victorville kane mgm hollywood marion davies john houseman manque herman mankiewicz david fincher orson welles three percent mankiewicz randolph hearst bank of america Twenty twenty bank of america matthew desam matthew decima clyde brockman california
93rd Academy Awards Predictions (Special Episode)

Piecing It Together Podcast

49:38 min | 2 months ago

93rd Academy Awards Predictions (Special Episode)

"The hey this cube. From the all points west podcast network. In this month you need to check out. The latest from house on fire gaby rodriguez and her co host semi gaza interviewed nobel prize winning scientists michael man about decades of climate. Change this information. That's been fueled by special interest groups fossil fuel companies and politicians. It's an incredible interview and it's up now so go follow rate and review the show. Now listen there's a couple of podcasts out there called house on fire so don't accept any substitutes be sure you're listening to the first the original the true house on fire the one with the white background that's brought to you. By the cleo institute you can also find the right house on fire podcasts. On cleo's website at cleo institute dot work only accept the best. Go find house on fire. By the cleo institute wherever you listen to podcasts All right welcome to another episode of piecing it together. The podcast where we take a look at a new movie and try to figure out what movies inspired it and today on the show. It's a special episode. Is that time of year again. We are looking at the oscars and doing some predictions joining me. This year is cat from shuffle. The pod and lat next lens and we are going to talk about some of the major categories some of the smaller below the line categories not every category just because of time but We're going to talk about a bunch of categories and what we think will win. What should win and talk about some stuff we think should have been nominated so that is coming up in a second Before we get to it. I want to remind you as always make sure. Subscribe to piecing it together wherever it is. Listen to podcasts. You can rate and review us on apple podcasts or pod chaser if you like what we do here on the show and don't forget to follow us on social media at piecing pod you can also join our facebook group popcorn in puzzle pieces where we continue the conversation about all the movies. We talk about here on the show so Let's get into this one and we will as we always do on every episode of piecing it together. We will possibly talk a few spoilers. So keep that warning in mind as we get into the conversation But it's oscar time so you should have watched all these movies now anyway right. So let's get to the conversation all right so it's that time of year. We've got with this cat from shuffle. The pod and lat next lens to talk about the oscars cat has gone. It's going good. Thanks for having me back. Yeah this is going to be fun. It has been an interesting year. Obviously very strange year but no shortage of great movies and as as we were Kind of just talking about like just before we hit record here like a lot of them are just getting to where like if we didn't catch him at certain screenings or whatever now they're all coming out like all the sudden there's like so many things to watch and it's it's been it's been fun but hectic getting caught up on everything yeah i. I don't know. I think in two thousand twenty hours just watching more my nostalgic viewings okay. Yeah yeah and then i. i don't know. I just i i'm reasoning. I usually am not like this. But i just see a lot of people watching these new ones and i just like. Do not wanna watch them at all. I knew they were going to there. Were some that. Were good and all that kind of stuff but i was just like not feeling it and then like being on this episode actually kind of forced me to watch some of the ones i hadn't caught up on and then there were some good wins and there's some early it was like so. Yeah yeah but Yeah i was a weird year. Because usually i don't wait this long to watch like oscar-nominated movies so yeah definitely out of the ordinary for sure. Well as i've done in previous years on the oscar predictions episode. Which usually my buddy. Chris crane co host with me but he obviously with the weird year that it's been. He has not really been a following along as as much this year. So i figured i'd reach out to one of my old multiple time co hosts on the show and get you involved but We're going to cover. Most of the major categories a few of the below the line categories. And what i always like to do. Because of course i am. A composer always liked to kick it off with the best score. Category and is nominated is the five bloods terence blanchard manque trent reznor and atticus ross minority emil massery news of the world by james newton howard soul by trent reznor atticus ross and john battiste so turn out because in there twice. Let's kick this thing off. What do you think should win. And what will win. I think it's funny. Because i minority was one of the ones that i just watched and It's actually one of my criticisms of the movie. There's very few criticisms of the movie. I have but it was that the score is very heavy handed in place. But i kind of think that I really enjoyed it. So i feel like as a score by itself Maybe not in the way they used it. I very much enjoyed it and then probably the one that will win. Manque possibly tresor and atticus ross. I wouldn't be mad about that sure. Yeah well. I love the minority score. I do think it should win. As far as like as a piece of music. I love it so i do think it should win will win. I'll go with the other. Residents had a kiss raw score. I'll go with soul that. That's that's my guess there. So what do you think is something that was left out. That should have been nominated. I i don't know if i'm being biased. 'cause i i think i love thinking of ending things and i feel like it. Just got snubbed. Her many reasons. But i still remember that very vividly like that music so i feel like that should have been nominated just the way they used it And it was very quirky. And i don't know. I like that one. Yeah as a great score I was definitely thinking about that one and it will be. It was not nominated for anything. I'm thinking of things but it will. It will end up on my list later for sure as most likely yours is. Yes i'll put in for my should be. I was originally going to go with gretel in hansel by rob such a long shot. Because it's just not the kind of thing the academy would nominate so my more realistic option is the mangrove score from the small x. Series of mike michael levi and that is just the. It's just a beautifully. Done scored really cool percussion. Just it's just awesome and really just helps move that story along so well and i'm sure there's so much With the format of the whole small act series that it really didn't ended up ending up nominated for things i mean. I don't even know what they eventually decided. As far as eligibility is concerned but it is one of the better scores of the year. i think. so let's move onto original screenplay we've got judas in the black messiah monari promising young woman sound of metal and the trial of the chicago. Seven what do you think should win. What do you think will win. I loved judas in the black messiah It's probably one of my favorites of all the films that are nominated and so i I'm gonna go with Judas in the black messiah for original screenplay Should win will win. I really hope it's not the trial chicago. But i have a sneaky feeling. Possibly but i'm really hoping it's not i'm going to go with a should win. Sound of metal. I just think it's just Absolutely phenomenal screenplay and that story is just so amazing. I think will win. Promising young woman. Which i think is a very interesting. You know exciting premise. And unique and interesting film. But i would definitely pick sounded metal over it as far as i'm concerned for. What i think is the best choice. I i- promising. Young women have been seen a lot of social media hype about it and that it was like shocking and everything and all that stuff and i was really excited to watch it. Because i love carey mulligan. I love emerald fennell because she You know the crown. And just the fact that this is the first feature. But when i saw i have to say i'm not really a fan of the story. Line Like obviously you know the feminist angle and all that. But i feel like it takes away. I don't know i'm just not i. I'm not a fan of it. Because of the fact that like i mean spoiler but not really She i mean. Yeah kind of spoiler. But i'm assuming people have watched these movies right. I don't like that. She kind of knew that she would die like she could get killed and like that was like her way of getting back at people and i just found that that was kind of like. I don't know i didn't like that. You know like. I thought i was like you're going to die at the hands of this guy and then get back at him but you could have done so much more by living your life in. That would have been better for your friend. Who got you know what i mean like. I didn't i. Didn't i didn't like that. And so i think just the hype and everything. I thought i was going to be different So personally not a fan of the of the it ended so i totally get that criticism there and i kind of feel the same way to be on the so but right on what do you. What do you think should have been nominated. See how this is a tough one yet is because a lot of the ones i liked are like adapted but it will say i guess and i don't know if this qualifies for twenty twenty but i really liked and maybe it's a twenty nineteen. You have to tell me like the timeline is so messed up. That i don't know but the system the system because i don't know when that came out or I can also go with this one. I don't know if it's based on anything but Barcode i the brazilian movie. I don't know if you saw it. I did yeah very interesting movie. Yeah i feel like that win. Was i really loved it. It was like a crazy sci-fi a futuristic but also socio political thriller kind of thing. So i feel like that was pretty original in my book. So i'll go with that. Because i'm not sure about the system when that might have been twenty two thousand nine so i'm going to pick a backward i. I don't think it got nominated for anything. So i was kind of upset about that. So yeah yeah. I was kinda surprised about that. But i guess it is kind of a strange movie for the academy but it is a very interesting and unique film and definitely worthy of the nomination Speaking of the not being sure about what is eligible for which year. I'm going to go with maybe a controversial choice but sam levenson screenplay for malcolm marie which i love that movie. I know a lot of people do not love it It technically came out and twenty twenty one but it was within the eligibility period. I'm pretty sure for this particular oscars. We're talking about so yeah. That's my pick for original screenplay. I liked that movie too. So i that awesome awesome. So let's move onto adapted screenplay like we were both kind of saying right. There is a lot of really great picks this year to go from. Let's start off with what is nominated. We've got borat subsequent movie film. The father nomad land one night in miami and the white tiger. What do you think should win. What do you think will win. I think should and will win is nomad land because that was one of my favorite movies That was actually surprised. Surprised me because sometimes the movies that get a lot of hype is well are kind of like a. And that. When i was i was like why i even doubt this and i. It was one of my favorites. Like it's kind of my front runner for a lot of these. That i hope win. And it was beautifully like rate in or adopted You know Because i feel like it was probably hard to adopt. Oh and the way that closure did it like wow just like masterful. so i'm gonna say should and will win okay. yeah. I love nomad land. It's definitely gonna show up some of my future picks here but I'm gonna go with should win. Is the father which is a movie that just seem so so difficult to pull off and that that screenplay just absolutely works magic with the premise. And also i would imagine Adapting your own stage. Play must be a difficult thing to like bring into a different different. Kind of format will win. I'm to go with borat subsequent movie film which there's precedent for it and you know every once in a while the academy tries something a little different and i think this is an example of maybe trying to do that so and i'm sure nomad land is going to win plenty. Yes and not mad. I think i would agree with you on the father Pick as well because that went actually blew me away to the way i if and i think i liked it too because if feels a little quirky Like in a weird way. That's like a weird commentary. 'cause it's dealing with obviously he's he's Dementia and kind of losing his mind a little bit. Because he's what he the disease he has but like. I don't know the way it was done. It was really I really liked it. A very intricate and the way he used the sad to kind of like lay in the mind. It felt very charlie. Kaufman did not get nominated for best stopped at screenplay. I was like well. At least this is the closest one right all right and so by pig fourche showed it got nominated or you know is charlie. Kaufman's i'm thinking of indian things. Of course me me too. We both have talked before on this podcast about how much we love. Charlie kaufman's working. I absolutely agree. That i'm thinking of anything's. It's insane that it's not nominated but It is what it is. You know these these studios they pick. Which films are going to campaign for and for whatever reason this one just wasn't one of them but you know i guess perhaps a netflix's though for actually giving charlie kaufman money to make a movie again. So yes. yeah yeah was. I think he got snubbed. Really badly he should be in this in this category. Oh yeah absolutely. And by the way to the point that you made do think the father. And i mentioned this on the piecing it together episode about the father. It definitely feels like something. Charlie calvin would've had his hand in and that's part of what i love about it so much. Yeah yeah yeah. I didn't expect it to be that. I thought it was going to be like straight drama. And i love bolivia coleman's i was like i'll do it and then like but Yeah it surprised me as well like that. It was that like. I don't know that kind of mine trip thing but they did it. Well especially with. The fact is going through that disease. Like what a brilliant way to like. Do a new angle on it. I think yeah absolutely so. Let's move onto best director. And we've got thomas winterberg. For another round. David fincher from manque lee isaac chung from a nari khloe zsa for nomad lands and final for promising. Young woman would have for Should win and what will win. What should win is nomad land. Because that was seamless in the way she utilized the the interviews. And you know like the kind of the documentary style feel but it feel is very cinematic in a way and i don't know i i loved all her shots in this movie and it made it feel like like i said from from the story initially like reading and i was like all this might be a little bit boring but the way she was able to make it. So compelling and Yeah i i'm going with the closure for should win will win. I don't know. I feel like sometimes they do this thing where they might give it to someone who I don't know has david fincher juan. Before as he or is he one of those at snub. I want to say that he's been snubbed. Without looking it up. I think he has not won. So i feel like this might be like a martin as type thing right right. Yeah i feel like Possibly he might win for For mink which. I love david fincher and i don't know if you should win for this one but if there's a time to give it to him maybe they're gonna think it's this time okay. Yeah that's fair. I'm gonna go with should win and will win for closure for nomad lands. I definitely see your point. Though with the the david fincher thing. I could see the academy doing that kind of thing but yeah i think it's clue as your though. I think. I think that she's got this one locked up and as we've been seeing these things don't always mean anything but all of the awards and all that stuff. They've all gone to her. And i just i think it would be crazy if she loses but i guess we will find out but what is something that you think should have been nominated again. I'm going to say Charlie kaufman that movie is just. It's just so good I know the story is just. I guess he suffers from just being too out there sometimes and maybe at face value people. What was that. I don't like it. But i think just every viewing you realize how much how good it is. And so i feel like his directing and also the writing is sometimes overlooked And not appreciated so. I loved like how he what he did in that movie so i feel like he should have got nominated as well. Yeah i i love it. I love it so much however not my pick for the should be as much as i love charlie kaufman. I do think that the movie is a little bit four. Charlie kaufman may maybe for the hardcore fans. One thing i one thing i noticed about twenty twenty there's a lot of amazing Debut films lot of first time filmmakers and one of them that i think would have been great to nominate was doria smarter. Sound of metal. That film is just so amazingly put together and just the way that tells the story in a way that's like unique and and it really is just firing on every cylinder from the from the sound design to the acting to the story to everything that comes together in that film I just think is just done. So expertly and Just one of the year's best so let's move on to the acting categories and we'll start off with supporting actress. We have maria. Buck lova for borat subsequent movie film glenn close for hillbilly elegy. Olivia colman for the father. Amanda see freed for mink and you-zhong yawn for monari Who do you think should win. And who will win. Who should win. I have to go with my clean Olympia coleman i mean. She's already one. But i feel like she should be up there with those two time. Oscar winning actress is i think she would probably be I don't know how many there are. But maybe julia roberts and meryl streep's won a few. So i think she's just as good and i feel like she should get it But i think will win. I think i would not be mad about this either maria back. I mean she's one some of the words leading up to this. And i don't know i think if you do that type of movie and what she had to go through. You deserve it as well. So i won't be. I won't be mad with either of those that would be great if she won I i agree with your should win. Livia coleman definitely is who should win in my opinion as far as will win. I'm going to go with the man to see freed from bank. I just think that she see it. Seems like the performance that would get awarded especially in a supporting Supporting category it just feels like the thing that would win to me and i have nothing more than that to say other than just it feels like it's gonna win but do you think should have been nominated. Yeah oh there is a lot of is hit to make up my mind. I wrote like a bunch of them. And then i'm league. How about you go first. And then i'll. I'm going to finalize my sure. Sure well my my pick. I think should have been nominated for this. This was definitely a little bit of a tough one for me. They're like you said there's a lot of great performances this year but once i thought like felt like they would actually get nominated. It was kind of a little bit tough to pick from I'm gonna go with olivia cook for sound of metal. Obviously i loved this movie so much and i love olivia cook. I mean everything that i've seen her in. I just think that she is such a great actress. One of the best young actresses working right now. And i just think it's such a strong and varied performance throughout the the time line of the film itself. And there's just so much to the character. And i just think that this would be a great place to Actually start recognizing her for the great work that she's putting in. Yeah i did have her on my list because The sound of metal. Like i don't know. I it was it was like she was in in the whole time when she did. I kind of longed for her. I mean rhythm. Ed is very good. I am not saying that. I didn't like watching him but like she was very captivating. Onscreen have to say. And i i. She's one of those actors. Like i've seen her before and i had to like liquor 'cause like where where was it but i remember she kind of stands out and everything she does Somebody kind of piggyback off. You say that one to kinda help narain on it that that works for me I let's move onto best supporting actor. We've got sasha baron cohen for the trial of the chicago seven daniel kelly for judas in the black messiah. Leslie odem junior for one night in miami paul receiver sound of metal and lakeith stanfield for judas and the black messiah. Who do you think should win. And who will win should win is lakeith stanfield. I stand by my pick. I i've i when i saw that movie I know daniel daniela. Performance is the one getting more of the hype. I think but for me what lakisha is with subtle and it's really hard to pull off like that internal struggle And i feel like daniel clue reforms. Obviously with fred hampton. It was more showy in our very good because when they show that clip at the end. And if you see those interviews. It's like it was uncanny. But i have to say that. Like i don't know something about the heat's performance of of really Like what that guy had to go through you know like what is character to go through and you can't show ally you know because it's like he can't give away what he's doing and so. I really hope that like he should win. I feel in my opinion. Who will win. I think it's going to be Daniel colusa just. Because i mean he's equally as great and i think maybe they're they're he's probably gonna get it and he has been winning up to this so Those are two my two picks. And i won't be mad about either like yeah my guy and i hope he wins. Yeah the i. I love lakeith to he. He he's awesome. I think it's kinda weird i mean. I think all of us think is kind of weird that he's up for supporting actor when it should be best actor but that's a whole nother story and who knows how these things work out the way they do. But i wanna go is should win for paul racy for sound of metal which. I'm just so excited that he is even nominated. I did not expect it to happen. But we'll win. Definitely daniel coup the performance to be and it is you know appropriately. Great and i will not be mad at all of you. Wins this one What do you have for something that should have been nominated. Yeah is delroy. Lindo considered would be supporting. Because i know he. He he got snubbed or is he. I think most people are putting them in lead lead. Okay so i would say maybe chadwick boseman for defy bloods because he was shorting actor and so I know he's nominated in the lead Lead acting category. But if there was a time for him you know to be in two categories. He'd definitely deserved that one. So but that was a tough category to be honest. I'm i'm sort of not mad about who got nominated. yeah. I'm glad you said that because i could not pick between four things that i thought it should be nominated so many. I had on my list but chadwick boseman also i didn't have but now that you mention it i think was absolutely fantastic in the five bloods and it's hard to pick between those two performances. Which ones nominated before. So absolutely i'm gonna go with an. I'll mention the other three that i was considering. But i'm going to go with ben mendelsohn for baby teeth Which is a under seen movie. I wish more people saw this movie. And maybe that's why it wasn't nominated at the same time That is part of the reason to nominate. Movies is to get more people to see them. along along the same lines though micheal martin from bloody nose empty pockets which is a very unique interesting different kind movie and absolutely worth getting in front of more people Also brian dennehy in his final performance and driveways which is a excellent little drama with a great performance from him and then the last one not as small of film but if if the point of a best supporting actor award is for a performance that stood out and really kind of became something that everybody paid attention to the film for Robert pattinson the devil all the time which is not the best movie but that performance i think is going to be one of the things. We remember twenty twenty. Yeah yeah that makes sense. So let's move on to best actress in a leading role. We've got viola. Davis for ma rainey's black bottom andrew day for the united states billie holiday vanessa kirby for pieces of a woman. Frances mcdormand nomad land and carey mulligan and promising young woman. What do you think should win. And what will win. I really want should win. Vanessa kirby carey mulligan I mean i think she's probably going to be my whirlwind but or possibly for m kind of torn because france is obviously is one think she went twice. Yeah so that could also be like she. Her performances is amazing in in nomad land. But i just feel a. I don't know vanessa kirby in pieces of a woman like that performance. Talk about making a movie you know. And i think that's the only nomination for that movie. And she's since i've watched her in the crown Like i've always remember watching her. That i like the first scene. She had as Princess margaret. And i were being so captivated by her and like oh my like. She's so good. And i glad that she's getting these roles in like People are acknowledging her and so. I'm very happy that she you know. Given the performance. She did in the movie like i hope she should win. But i feel like it might be carey mulligan because it's one of those things again like she's got a nominated before and hasn't won it could be The time for her. So it's becoming an amy adams situation right right so if if there's a time for her to get it. I think it would be with this movie so she will win. In my opinion. I think vanessa kirby is great pieces of a woman. I just don't like the film that much. I think after that truly amazing opening i think. The phone kind of falters. So that was my main issue with that. But i do think she is She is great in it I think should win is frances mcdormand for nomad lands. I think that she just creates a character. That is its own thing but also fits in so well with all of the real people in the movie. And i just think it's just an amazing performance. And she is just she's the best you know. She's so damn good in everything Will win though. I think it's going to be carey mulligan. also. I think it's her year for this. I think if promising limit doesn't take home anything else. I think it's that yeah. I guess the only the only reason i don't wanna give it to. Francis is because if i felt like i could since she is francis mcdermott. And you know who she is. It's like i felt like. I was watching france's interact with the people if that makes sense like documentary type thing and so it took me out a little bit of it. Not not anything she did but like. It's so good. But i don't know i feel like i was not transport you know like i couldn't just because i know who she is. It's sort of like kind of went against her in my book but obviously very good but yeah so who do you think should have been nominated in this category again. I'm really. I'm like all these all these people that i love her from like Period pieces but i wish rosamund pike would have been nominated for. I care a lot Yeah so i. I loved her performance in. I mean she did win. The golden globe Although the going globe is not the best indicator of who will win for the academy awards But that would have been like my fun nominate nomination in in my book because she deserves to and i know she's got in. I think she's got nominated for. I don't know if it's for pride and prejudice. Or maybe i'm making that up but she should Or gone girl. Maybe but i think she was nominated for ganga. I wanna see she was i. I don't do so much research for the show do i but But yeah scores pundit. I people should just be happy. I'm doing an oscars episode. How about that I i will go with should be nominated. I've got a tie here. I could not choose between the two of them. That is in dire for malcolm marie. Which of course i've mentioned earlier. I'm not sure exactly where falls. But i'm pretty sure it would be for this year's oscars and jessie buckley and i'm thinking of ending things which as we've as we've mentioned that movie just completely ignored here but she is absolutely fantastic. And you know like we've talked about as you're re watching the movie and realizing just what charlie calvin is doing with these characters The way that she is playing that character that you know may or may not be what it seems and there's just so many layers to it and she just pulls it off just flawlessly. She's awesome yeah. I think i'm snapping at myself. Because i remember watching that movie and thinking like both jesse should get nominated. And so yeah. You're i completely agree with that when she was overlooked In award season. And i feel like that could also be just because it was like that mid It was a consumer right that he came out and i feel like pandemic times just made it feel like leading up to the ostrich especially since it's like now in april it was just too much of a lag time maybe to build up the hype and continue it and so yeah i think that's a major snobby. Ira well. Let's move on best actor in a leading role we've got rid amid for sound of metal chadwick boseman from our enemies. Black bottom anthony hopkins for the father. gary oldman for manque and stephen for monari. What do you think should win. What will win. This is a hard one. Because it's between two to actors who i really love and i'm so happy that they're doing so well another nominated but very close. I should win Raise ahmed his. What he did in south of metal was so good. And so i feel like he. He he definitely deserves to win. will win. I think it's going to go to anthony hopkins. Just because are obviously what he had to do. Well he's just solid all the time just like Like you said. Frances mcdormand and like you know their they're level of good is just like above everyone else's like amazing so Yeah i think he's going to win. But i have to say like to. Stephen yan who i hope would win. He's i guess he's like my my My honorable mention. Because i have watched him. You know since the walking dead and then He was so good and like Sorry to bother you and then Well i didn't like his character as much minority. i think he played it so well. So yeah but. I don't think he's gonna win this time well. I'm having a lot of trouble with this category. Because i feel like should win is both -rism anthony hopkins. I think it's just the most impossible picking the world. If i had absolutely pick one of the two i'd probably go ahead but Is just the hardest choice for me. However i feel like will win is chadwick. Boseman for marines black bottom i. I think that they are going to give it to him. And i can't be mad at all because he is so damn good in this movie and I think completely deserved even if those other two performances were so damn credible yes i. You're right. I think he he probably will win. But i i don't know i'm going off what i want to. What do you think should have been nominated. Yeah although i'm not going to be mad if chadwick means either obviously yeah. Yeah i should have been nominated. Like i mentioned in because they thought he was supporting but delroy lindo It was very missed opportunity to nominate him and and Yeah i'm kind of. I'm still mad about that one. Yeah i i think we all are. He's my pick to for should have been. I don't understand it says if the academy just has no idea what people are. You know rooting for or they do. And they're just like no. We're not gonna do that. You know screw all you want. Yeah sometimes it's just easier. I think they go off like the names like it seems like oh yeah those are always like like i said solid acting so they go off that and maybe they don't even watch the movies. I'm just how can you not watch that and not nominate them. But yeah what do i do that. Performance is just. It's crazy good. And i you know all the real you know film fans will continue to talk about it for a long time but yeah i think that's maybe the biggest snub of the year. I would say but that brings us to the final category. The big one. Of course that's best picture and the films that are nominated are the father judas in the black messiah manque minority nomad land promising young woman sound of metal and the trial of the chicago. Seven what do you think should win. What will win. Yeah this one. I i i i know i'm gonna open. The wrong envelope should win. It's between two so it's going to be my should enroll in. I think nomad land is going to win So that's my will win And should win. Is judas in the black messiah. Because i take into account The rewatch ability was it. Exciting Was it fun to watch this at the drive in And so it may be unbiased towards it because of that it just felt like oh my god this is. This is awesome to see this movie. And also that you know the soundtrack and like the performances with keith and daniel they could just felt like. Yeah this movie's type thing and then It's it's Like shocker kings. first directory debut. Like what you so. I just feel like it was an amazing piece of films. I would want that one to like should win. But i think nomad land will win and i also won't be mad about that. Yeah yeah no i agree. I think nomad land will win. I think that is the clear front runner here. And i'm torn as far as should win but i think i'm going to have to go it. Sound of metal. Just because i love that film so much and i just think it's such such a great film for the particular moments of Post co vid and trying to kind of navigate a major life change and you know things are going to be going forward and i. I just think it's a really interesting film and really unique and beautiful film. But i think that this is a really strong lineup. I agree with everything you said about judas in the black messiah i could. I could see that being completely deserving. I also considered the father as one of the best films of last year which would be completely deserving. What do you think is something that should have been nominated for this one. Yeah and i'm probably biased because this is We did an episode of The best international feature film on my podcast ladder next lens. But i have to say when. I watched Longer here which is a mexican Film directed by Fernando free us. Like i thought that was like one of the best movies i had seen last year. And i can't believe it was a nominated for anything like especially for International feature film. So i would have liked to see that because i think it is very much like it's universal. Even though it is a mexican film. I just a story is you can i i. It's like a one of those things that transcends and so i feel like if there is the best picture nominee like maybe it didn't get nominated for anything else but it could nominated for this you know but the academies. I don't know the track record. You know And then and then another one too going by that same line is La yadana That win that one was just so good as well and it was snubbed. For best international feature film and that one. It should've got nominated for something because what he was able to do with that story and take a a well known story that's like in latina culture and and kind of like adapted the way he did. Yeah i felt like is good. But that's like the genre films that kind of get overlooked you know and hear him odell. To'real has been the one to kind of break through that but there hasn't been much after that. Yeah i thought if nothing else. I thought was going to be in the best international feature. I was very surprised when it got snubbed. There but yeah great. Great picks the one that i would put in there as a should be nominated is the forty year old version. I feel from rod a blank that on paper just i feel like he shouldn't even work the way it is. I mean the middle aged woman who is kind of moving from being a teacher to an underground hip hop rapper. And it's just it's kind of perfect though and it's a testament to her talent both behind the camera and in front of the cameras at star The writing the strong supporting cast There's just so much going right in this movie and it is. It's so many things all at once. A great music movie. Inspirational movie agree Kind of underdog type of story and you know finding a new path kind of story. I mean it's just a lot of things right and is Really fantastic and fresh new voice. And i can't wait to see what radha blink does next yes and then also just because to round it to bring back full circle. Also i'm thinking of ending. Things should have gone on for this Of course they think about it constantly. And i still like. I don't know we live in our little charlie kaufman. We would've we'll we'll do separate awards show just for him. Yeah i down for that. We will definitely have to do that sometime soon. Ray ray on. Yeah that that covers the categories that we're gonna talk about here today but april twenty fifth. It's ninety third academy awards. I'm very excited. I i love watching awards shows. I know it sounds silly to a lot of people to still watch a word shows especially in this insane world that we are currently in and everything but i am looking forward to it and looking forward to seeing what happens and cat. Thank you so much for joining me for this when you tell people a little bit about what you've got going on i know you just Relaunch shuffle the pod. And also you got going on with latin next lens yes you can listen to me on the next lens We talk about. We highlight a an filmmakers and actors by choosing three of their filmography and kind of dissecting it that way and then also we review films. So that's the representation part that making a film criticism more diverse And then was shuffled. A podcast it's kind of an extension of the film site that iran a chef online dot net and we also just shuffled bunch of different stuff entertainment lifestyle music wellness and some happy to be launching that again. Ob biweekly and i'm super excited for that. So if you want to if you liked what. They said that. Go listen to those. Yes everyone should go. Listen to those. And i was just listening to the shuffle. The pod just before we got started so everybody go check those out. That's for sure We'll right on cat. Thank you so much for being here and Hope to get you back for another piecing together sometime soon. I would love to be back. Thanks for having me again. Hello everyone. My name is magnetically and i am the host of the next best picture. Podcast part of the film. Entertainment awards website next best picture dot com on our show. We explore all year long. What is possibly going to win. Best picture at the oscars we do. This by conducting interviews with people within the film industry holding weekly reviews of the latest vehicle the leases and on our main show where we dive into various different topics. Answer your fan questions. And also do our best to explore oscar histories passed in hopes that it will tell us something new for this coming award season race. We hope that you will join us on. Alta dairies podcasting networks. We look forward to seeing over x. Best-picture dot com race. I hope you enjoyed that. Conversation about the oscars will see if we were right about some of that stuff Thank you for joining me for the conversation. Check out her podcasts. Latin x lens and shuffle the pod. And while you're at it make sure your subscribe to piecing it together. you can. Of course subscribe to us wherever you listen to podcasts. If you're not already and if you like what we do here on the show make sure to rate and review us over on apple podcast or pod chaser and forget the follow us on social media at piecing pod and join our facebook group popcorn and puzzle pieces and of course most of all more than anything. Make sure to share the show with your friends because we love getting the word out all new people to come check out piecing it together We also have a patriot. The produced by david rosen patriots where i post advanced content from piecing it together as well as bonus content and stuff from awesome movie year and stuff from my music career so lots of great content over there. It's paycheck dot com slash by david rosen. Want support the show and everything else. I'm up to check that out. So let's closest thing out with a piece of music. Like i always do and i played this on the show a few weeks ago. But i'm gonna play it again because it fits the oscar theme This is a track called destined for greatness that i just put out as a new single available over on itunes apple music on spotify all the major digital music services you can buy the single or you can just stream it at at your favorite playlist but this is a coup triumphant inspirational type track so i thought it would be a good fit to play it again here and remind you all that i do. Have this new single out. So check it out There's a new blog post on my website about it and the creation of the track which was originally the score for a short film. So check out that blog. That's over on. By david rosen dot com and check out the single on all the digital music services and this is destined for greatness. We'll be back with more piecing it together coming out real soon Roy Points west production. Produced by. David rosen in las vegas.

cleo institute Charlie kaufman monari oscars atticus ross chadwick boseman carey mulligan vanessa kirby oscar david fincher malcolm marie olivia cook lakeith stanfield gaby rodriguez Chris crane emil massery trent reznor atticus ross john battiste Manque mike michael levi
The Pond Theater (Mank Mothered)

Pond's Feed

1:00:34 hr | 7 months ago

The Pond Theater (Mank Mothered)

"Hello and welcome to the punt theatre. Had adb's guys sitting for me uploading video responding woman talking about whitey white. People like manny's. Although i am white i don't like mayonnaise. So ivanhoe's non white bernanke mayonnaise. Whatever description chased by of course macos justin karate here not talking about movies the way better than mayonnaise while maybe maybe the the mountains. Maybe they are well. Our movies today are just to. At least i the only movies. I saw this week or two. But they're getting quite allow attraction. You go on twitter. And i think they're on the trending the two movies being godmother d- from disney plus and make from netflix. Which is the return of director. David fincher long years since his ears to make bio pic about the making citizen kane and i can only predict this as a movie. He will want to be competing at the oscars. I mean they've been the oscars likes or loves. Its movies about making movies. The oscar catnip for them. Yes yeah and that is all. I mean what we're talking about. But i also say being of tiktok right i jerked Wasting time on on people mayonnaise. There's plenty of things of tiktok may bring out to being useless. But i am seeing it actually as a viable platform moving more so than youtube and the reason why that saying like i. Don't i still put things on youtube. Of course but why i see you took time taking off a little more than youtube. And that's because Not just the popularity of a but the accessibility where you can make a video that has to be a maximum of the minute long and more likely than not only get a few hundred beers and people looking at it and passing it around. I'll tell you. I started using talk fully in. I believe october. I believe october by it. Wasn't that long ago. Where i decide you gonna turn on tiktok and actually do this. No yeah. I was around two cases. I've been using it for two months and i won from eight. Subscribe at eight followers to one hundred and eighty dollars. Now that may not seem too big but that is something no of how much growth there was in such a short period of time. And there's a lot of excess net just accessibility things you could do as far with that limitation. And that's where. I used to talk to put a little video. Clips of the podcasts everyday. So not on youtube i. I'll play thirty low club. Slow funny things or things we said usually make them a maximum of thirty seconds. Maybe they'll be close to a minute each of those tiny clips. They would be around. There would be a few hundred within twenty four hours most of them. And i think the other thing is how using the hashtag. And that's a big thing to you're a podcast or near any type of concentrator knowing what hashtags you put on your audio uploads. On youtube videos specially tiktok is very vital. And what makes tiktok even more accessible. As that it tells you what are the trending hashtags As opposed to youtube in any of the audio our guest platforms you of have to figure that out yourself and that's where it's been easy for easier for people to get stuff out there in fact that's how i find out about some of these other creatives. I end up interviewing it's cool. I start installing interview diverse creatives from talk a platform at very beginning. What i saw was betty boop Died a dance. If it's a it's a Old cartoon of betty boop or i think it's called the song saw bringing around now ed's just a bunch of costs players china to tap dancer. Do some weird a wacky emotions to it in. I mean that's a big part of tiktok to there is a play of videos where it's all about lip synching a music saga lip synching a clip from a tv show or movie end. Yeah that's not something. I'm terribly into most of the time but i'll say that being on it it will make me get a nice even addicted Intentionally there's some songs that i don't even think are that good. They've listened to thousands of times from scrolling through them on tiktok. There is the song. I don't even know the name of it. But part of the leeward says buddy. I am every time someone plays that song. It's almost like a condition lake. They hear the song they have to work. A part of the lyrics is a big titties. Little waste or something like that Am that goes a buddy. I wanna goes a buddy ya then. They just simple brown toward there are some more kid friendly. Podcast seems to have. Not podcast take talkers. And that's something. I didn't know your for you. Page does get eveready of things is at the fall. Who is going to figure but looking at you guys to especially justin being actor and also with the other thing that you got you can just put up thirty seconds to admitted disalow. Your favourite tiny parts Those audio bits and then just put them on tiktok. in finally upload people will watch of 'em hey if they like what they see they love they see though failure and what years the biggest thing so tiktok does not allow you to lay. As far as i know now there might be some features. Just get added the more followers you get you get. It is another platform. Where if you get certain. Exa followers is like twitter. Youtube do become part of the critters program and you can make a living off of it. There are people who use to shoo man. I i lost material. Oh no i get. I get off saying. Oh i can't believe just. At the moment i lost myself. No for the most part. The only two things you can link to your tiktok are your instagram youtube. If you have a youtube page in an instagram paves new. Meet lincoln to that any m when you post a tiktok video. You can share that video onto your instagram stories or on instagram live or whatever are not live or instagram scrambles or facebook end uganda's repurposes videos and once again. Instagram has their own creators program. And they've got their own tiktok like system reels this. It's much as the just look at tiktok for the worst parts. I'm looking at for mostly the best. Hey they also Sold out a trump that no one showed up to chop blind gunn Speaking of betty boop the lady that voices in one of my favorite movies christmas vacation. Oh wow is she crazy aunt earlier. Yeah ok. does she go. Yeah does she go into the movie gonna bring around now yet. The last thing Trend it it was like the beginning of tiktok. I don't think people. I mean trends. They last for way couple months or couple of weeks so that yet the music video. I don't think people do that anymore. Instead i see a lot of as i said Body the name that song as there is blyden. that's i guess relate. I can't even tell the related of a were watch because it's two people going. I got an idea what's idea. Are uniquely mercy game and it turns a new. A an anime pop song were just people to slide back and forth and they way their finger on. I don't even know what the heck is going on was listening. I'm like okay all right. Oh there's another one tiktok or people like to dance to now. There are some kid friendly things people react to there are playing. Spongebob memes. there's the part where sponge way. Ni- spongebob as i think it's one of those old episodes of spongebob. Things said mr crabs is the fake so they kidnap him they slap them in scrubbers. Like spongebob yet to ask some question. Oh yeah what color is my underwear so there is little trends like that but at the same time people use it for powerful things they use it for things related to what they do so like on other platform it. Something to take advantage of It's free on your app that anyway but enough that tiktok skit into the but actually the one thing i wanted to get through regarding. That is that. I had interview review with an actress slightly. Who was disowned Tristen cunningham and. She's a hollywood actress. she's in. La dislike year in california. She was in lethal weapon. The tv series lethal weapon the fugitive and there was a couple other things she worked with. Kiefer sutherland. the mentioned that was one the big actors she was on site with and then she did. She also did was in some movies to their latest one where she also wrote his zoom that mova. It's an amazon prime film. I think it's other drama horror film. But it's a movie that takes place completely zoom so it was a film made in quarantine or just an interesting thing to do there. I mean a searching that worked out. So i mean i haven't. I haven't seen that film yet. But i know that it's something. She worked in some other things while she did a video. Educating about the real first black lady who refused again up receive there was of a xhelo education on a on an ally. 'cause there was like three clones. Three dapo gators sitting on a couch watching friends and in the end of that will comedy skit. The it says friends as the concept of france's ally or something like that but the whole point of the video was it was a bunch of guys saying well we we didn't want protests. We don't have to support a black. Mary she comes out. Tv going you your endless game yet. To keep going black lives matter doesn't end until they actually do matter so she She had a lot of amazing things. You talked about regarding being thrown in quarantine like trying to get work still at this time. Also being a black actress trying to get work in at being kind of a sideline or having there was something where which is interesting is something i've been saying about. Hollywood word by the oscar is trying to be pc in liberal. But i think it's kind of bs in one of the things is when they gave roll roll around plan ski when meryl streep would come in and talk about a woman equality. Women's rights treat women with respects. But she would not lake when it comes to rome plant ski. She wanted to. she would not like. Did not like the scots the She she was one of the people right. After the sexual assault case like applauded him gave him a gave him a word and then recently when they approached her about it a sim about she would bring it up but she would not do that with our just giving him so many compliments in slake. Okay what what do you this guy. So it's interesting hearing that and then tristan mentioning that every gigi Acting gig she gets. There are some that will say okay. We can only hire you if you promised Keep your political views to yourself or end like black lives matter. That's considered a political view. You're not allowed to speak out about that. you have. we can upset anyone else. Then you can't work for us and it's really really inspiring that despite the pandemic She wasn't even just now. This is back before that this too. But even even now of having to rejects rose rejects. Being all do may continue make she still making a living Giving work to help pay off your bills simply just because morales in a very powerful things. She's had another story about A young girl in a trump rally. And i i really just This was amazed by her. I kept in touch through and abroad some her videos that she made on instagram as well like she made one about twenty twenty one. I put that on there so cunningham and la maybe to work together. Sometimes i would be really cool. Yeah so now onto the show. Speaking of twenty twenty we could use a gun mother. A fairy godmother does granted wishes to come true does bring endless happiness. And what are you know. This is also the time. Christmas a r. I need a godmother any godmother. Gimme me five odds. I live happily. Ever after. Jay's no i also i i i i love my gaming code so much But i i made a joke rows like you went. The pierce five is actually cured. Covid because if you buy pius five dollars that he hidden of vaccine at the back of the console and as leg every time i joke around with Gets confused like thackery saying and the reaction. The bite my comment on that was. I'm gonna put that up on the but a but not everybody's been having good christmas we find that here In the world of the godmother land godmother. Bill learn crap. It's called the hope of being a fairy godmothers fading There's not enough people believing as it seems and they feel like they're out of work we're going to have to. We have to change. Everything is being to fairies at like that. Prison causes the most trouble here out of the whole class. It's a class full of women who they would say in the movie there somewhere around a hundred years old even though they look like they're fifty but they would go into a classroom. It's a classroom full of almost. Everybody is white except for one black to to or not not to fairy godmother that was the one godmother that's st- decides to talk the most grad during the class She was like. Oh yeah you're going to tell everybody that. The godmother businesses going out. And we're actually in a class the become to fairies. I'll wait where's that the plan. She's like croydon cairns. Add a though i will say. Why does this movie started. It was oregon on my nerves. 'cause we have this narrator here at ends one of those narrators. The thinks you're so stupid like she's got to tell you everything that goes on when a character walks in the room. Oh she is the leader of all the gun okay. You don't have to tell me that. let me let me watch the movie and find that out and yes. Oh she's over explaining things and also she's trying to be hip and cool at the being the film Rfid at the beginning. I was not. I was not. What the As like arcadia. But here we go. This is when those d. level disney channel. Films that we're gonna get to and there's plenty slapstick to play. A jokes are aimed them tiny kids. They'll kids that this lagarde their head. Why are all right. What kept me a least intrigued. In hoping something will work woodwork when she goes to the or the youngest godmother who is played by jill jill bell Who is it lanier. Lehner and she finds out that the mailroom is so desolate and dirty. And my whole question. Nos like okay. If it's a dozen dirty than those mail they have to be years old. Which has a It's even a spoiler than the trailer. But that is the twist She finds out the one chance she has to restoring god. The the business of being gotten airfare godmother is this one person who was go late clayton onto hope that things could get better and she finds out the bad ten year. Old male was several years old and she's actually an adult working at a news station so in that case. It's her trying to help. This grown adult play by elisa. Fisher playing kenzi barak bora l. Brits yeah yeah do. She's a making rounds. I carried this. Continue on the stupidity in this film. The way how they can find her Pumpkin patch and she accidentally buzzed up the spell Slumps down on a tree. There's random bus driver log driver that comes by. This'll really got me like okay. This is where i know. This is a complete fantasy world not just because it tries to be a fish out of water to of the fairy godmother going into the real world china understand real things but really the real world here is not the real world it is a fantasy world and i knew that as soon as this person came up would come up with Excuse me ma'am. Are you austin one. Their quick questions are higher dead. Are you on drugs. And she's like no. But i've gotta find may may or angus identifying eggers. There are in here and she's like yup she's on drugs but then she she proceeds to say we'll let me help me find this mckenzie in not okay. Let me get you to a mental hospital. And she heads occasions like siri. Look for like siri. Doesn't that siri doesn't know siri would be under criminal investigation. If not the trestle our can things are in this movie just to give you a happy story. It goes blake way too stupid for its own gun. But i yeah i i will have to look at this the same way. I even look at the the crystals crackles load. Kids will not even care they'll see. Oh my gosh. It's a fairy godmother with magic spells. He does this pew do that. All mommy are things going to go back to normal or things going to work with them or is she gonna find true love and happily ever after in. The mom would be like sure to watch the movie. Just leave me alone. let me let me on. Pornhub decide has to stop bad in this. Or if it's if it's an adult family probably add what. I would also say that hold can be instant. Has 'cause the goes through so many kid movie cliches that it's almost not even like talking about the ply you could kind of for even some of the themes. It goes over talking about with her being the news station the news. All about the fearmongering. I feel like that is an idea that could have been used for a greats satire on the news. If the movie was smart enough for that and it wasn't it was so over the top in cartoony about its theme with that. I couldn't even wrote echina- even wrote the satire. I was lake And seen those before seen other movie movies on tv shows egging speaking of something. That's animates something. Spamming from me. I think the new maniacs show does a much better job making fun of the news. Then this movie in probably 'cause that's show is able to just get even just a little bit edgy to where you could watch it as an adult and you could still get so much out of it but the fact that it's aiming not even just the jokes but the storytelling and small kids of your hand the whole time and money. No everything is going to be okay to me. That's just not fun especially when there's nothing deeply writing about these characters. Their type seem in these family movies before in. The mom stressed out because something happened with the debt. It's the same thing you hear about a will ono parent trouble and all the kids they. They're not motivated win. Someone's gotta be in there in bringing a life it's even ripping off other disney movies like enchanted them. That's the one movie. I thought the whole time. Like okay the scope. I'm like a jab to know kuzin chanted as much as it is comedy through in through. It played around with itself in even made fun of all the old disney trumps. The other thing. Is you see the difference between the fantasy world and the real world because whatever they're in the fantasy world for one hand-drawn enemy where they go in the real world in live action in there like okay. What is this mcdonald's in this bus. I'm mad with this there. it's live action in the fancy world and slide action in the real world but then at the very end turns in the enemy. I'm like okay. This was just not even while directed. It's directed in its record competently enough to be a movie that you could put on for kids but as far as a cohesive film even a film to find. Funny him very entertaining. It's cheap m. it's it's very forget the light. I don't hate it. Evan curfew parts of the film that i did get mad because they dive deepen these tropes so much to were. They even have a dance scene with the dj playing the ymca again doing songs that are at least ten or twenty years old. Nobody hears anymore. That's kind of my own feeling going for it. By the end. I was looking at like white white was the santa made. Why does not having such a problem with just allowing hand-drawn ama animation at The everson cg became a thing. They fire shifted their like all their employees work. That handwriting amazon told them go. Work on. cg by disney needs to open up to other styles of animation goes. This film really does not feel like. I need to be live action by you. Guys go ahead greg. Good i mean. Yeah chase the sentiments. Exactly this this movie isn't like horrible at all but it's also just it it just exist. This movie just exists. Everybody is just doing their part for the most part. I will say that. I think jillian bill is probably the only person in the movie. That's actually trying. And i mean it's not a great performance but at least she's trying everybody else in. This movie is just going through the motions and doing their part and they didn't even need the pitch perfect guy as horrible boss. Who's being extremely over. The top is being a horrible doofus. And some of these song cues they play in the movie. Just make your eyes throw like when born to be wild starts playing. Oh my gosh. The kid booby chokes than so many. So many bad animate. That was an alabama viggo shit. Then they wanna rip off the opening of midnight cowboy by playing the opening song from that movie because she's going on a journey shoes you know. Yeah this movie so bland and it's just disappointing because i haven't seen Ila fisher and anything for quite some time and for this to be her big role in quite some time as sad and then they just take on that. It's a christmas movie. I feel like someone's like well. We're releasing this around christmas. So let's put some christmas stuff in the movie. You know it does kind of have it nice positive message at the end but it doesn't really matter when you don't care what's going on and then of course the whole forced attempt at at a love interest but you know i guess that's not the message of the movie but that was painful to because whatever that guy's name is they have no chemistry together and you could tell. That was four stephen into the script. So it's a low decent for me and target about why disney doesn't do two d. animation. They haven't done a to d films since princess and the frog slop well i forgot winnie the pooh came out to. But i don't think that did well either. Old princeton walks it just as well as up. So they're like okay. Sees where we're gonna go. 'cause tangled was originally supposed to be two d and then those moana moana was supposed to be hand drawn animated and they didn't know mwana was not you know they have actually constant demos of ambition of the to devers normal idaho and yeah it was. It was originally going to beat apple like nine. Cj is the future so yeah yeah. Let's this adjusting the main thing. Different sayer Yeah not not much different It does have really good. You know message it's about no family And and you know wanting your parents to care about you wanting is by moving on you know I don't know. I didn't hate it as much as you guys did. But again the first two minutes. You're like oh this is silly. This is just gonna be silly and it was A lot like enchanted. Like you said but also like l you know. L. it has a lot of elements in it Both of those movies are better. Well actually i don't but i love oh And i liked island nation. This movie i thought she was. Just fine I feel like she's you know she did it for you know You should check out with her in. That was really. She's great But yeah bell. I mean it's just it's fine. I don't consider it a christmas movie. And all this was good better than christmas chronicles. That's for damn sure This is i mean yeah. I think this is not as i had more fun. Even i don't like either movie. Add more fun with the christmas. Chronic was so ridiculous burke kurt russell just has so much fun with his role. And there's nobody in this movie that the has that level of energy as i'm jillian valley at charles and she has the most fun does what i said. Yeah she was the only one try in the movie so she had a great Yeah yeah not much to say it's cooled. we didn't need it You know. I like i like how it turned out but it has to have a happy ending happily ever after. But it doesn't i think it's gonna turn out. It's not paint by numbers like like you know with the prince and princess and the godmother but it it That was that was nice. I like i like the little turn there. But yeah overall. godmother high decent. Well that leads us to. When people are i'd already putting on their. They're putting on their best movies and twenty twenty lester. They're like okay. This is an oscar. Contender this move ray. Here dave venture. He's back it's funny. We go from aliens three to a film about the drek the production behind his game. Because if you look at history. That was the first movie directed. Yeah it's not as bad as people say it is I'll i'll be us. I've only seen alien. I have nine even seen aliens Elian three i believe seen alien and then i played aliens koyo mariam's it's but this is unrelated that it's about what people film historians would tell you. The best movie of all time is citizen kane. Whatever they talk about a new movie is like. Is this the citizen kane of yada. Yada yada and i've never seen citizen kane. Yeah i haven't seen it either. Wow it's streaming on. Hbo max till the end of the month in the top one hundred af by for sure. And i think it might be close to the spin number one twice each time. They've done the list that that's insane. he'll work. Which is why you know. I don't want movies to feel that way And i wonder does so. Don't know i mean. Obviously i should see it in my lifetime. I yes if you consider yourself a film fan or a lover cinema. You should at least watch it once just to see what all these all. These baby boomers fuss about or yeah. I might my now. There are some films lake. I was at a gun with the when. I just don't feel that interested in see. Maybe because the only things i've seen of the gone with the winner the the slave or the servant black sir thing i. I don't think that has aged while at all no. It's a hugely problematic film. But it also a cinematic landmark. But i i understand and see where you're coming from and i agree with you but i i also understand why people hold it in such high regard to like your spectacle of a movie. It's not just on a huge scale. will hbo maximum. They actually put a disclaimer before it. Now i have a film historian it's a lady of color talking about the movie the history of production and the problems with this okay with it was good when you when you have someone You know a person of color talking a talking about that in taking that nine in having discussion about i think maybe Originally i was against the erkki. Four hours long. Look thing i know about the decides. I think maybe the basic plot is that bad part right there but i loved when those racist cros. So maybe i'm a While well i on what. The wind is problematic but birth of a nation is even worse orca. Yeah so yeah. Yeah that movie in my opinion can go a trash fire. i understand it was also cinematic landmark. But it's worse than gone with the wind is far as its problems. Irqah i i will take your word for a but this did say the kkk or the protagonist in the film. So there you go. Yes screw that. This is not about that. This is about the life of herman j men he's as he writes the screenplay of syncing came one at lancaster. It's men mcleese killed just that utah. The movie right. So who did he should know how to say blessed. God i should say his last name make is. I'm not saying that. Jesus thing just call me people. It's like the accurate like meg. Mckeag begging a Name may come over here like yeah but as he is the title of the movie this is about his own life around this film it relationships with other people but also all the things. I've gone into this movie. Not just the creative vision behind it but even some of the problems. I mean that is something to be expected with a lot. Lot of these big landmark movie. That's always gonna be something it's never always terribly honky dory and this movies try looking trying to look at both ways in an interesting format this. This shot like an old movie. It's in black. and white. and all the actors are playing their m sort of a A nineteen forties nineteen fifties Film in like they all have that sort of boss map boston. But i new york in some type of Acts like what they like that they get over here man to make a film. I'll my the best bill that will ever be featured on your hot dog or something like that. And they all delays go. Well how are can't even get the lady per a riot but you see serve. How films are made not just the aesthetic of everything but also for the. Yeah the documents but also the production. 'cause they do spend per the film making the film in this Spam of a little bit over two hours and add say the production behind. Ev- anything that will come of this movie in the oscars. I think the visuals definitely speak for themselves. You look at this movie ended. Does authentically represents something back Don't may the one thing that might be missing here is maybe the the tv The tv video effects the bdr which is making the screen. Not like blurry. But you know how you watch it every ever had like those old ts before we have the flat screens like those old. A brick television sets from the ninety s reaction headed back what they actually had a back to them. Know yeah yeah. We know that they have served the filter. Like if you were to turn something. I like the resolution won't be that it'd be it'd be kind of like you're also. I don't know how to even describe but if you were to look at side beside were with watching a movie on an old television set and then watching it. I'm your four k or your smart tv. You'll see a difference on how it's presented. And i think if you wanted one hundred percent make it look like an old movie. I fell a that. That would have made me feel okay. I can't even tell this from back in the day or is from modern times. Why would you want him to shot it. Like an a pan and scan because it's in the forties so that's before wide-screen was a thing you're worth you watch older movies from that time period there shot like even on your Smart tv's they're presented that way because wide-screen wasn't a thing yet. You're good interesting. That was an added feature. It doesn't have to be required. But i think if you had it all set up like that then you you can tell that this movie was made today but there's this little things such as a bad where you're like. Okay yeah this was still shot recently at the cast though and do even recognize the cast as while because the main protagonists here make. He is played by gary oldman. And you got other actors to other actors and actresses yada lily collins. Amanda as seinfeld a fried Are less howard tomah delperie now the lead knowing people. I'll say that even recognize in this film. Maybe the other some other actors value think about what other films. They've been our be like okay. I recognize that person but to me the only two ones that immediately stood up. Severe gary oldman and then bill nye who does show up as well with which i i was. I deny even recognize him. But yeah you look at the cast. Bill nye the science guy. He was in this movie. I know i was. I was trying to think our way. Bill nye the science guy before he sky he was filmmaker and i had to think about what part of the film was them. Then i don't want to say why. But i i then bentley. Eventually click to me. I was like. Oh wow yeah. He wasn't this movie but you can easily tell that sam so the performances do a great job Themselves in into the try to be as close to these historical figures am the film industry as possible. And you see at the end. They even use bed of old audio footage. Maybe see what what do the old director sound like. What did you look like. Try to make this feel at least a little bit like the original story. Now this being a movie you're bound to see some dramatization and some things that didn't actually happen back then so i knew that coming in. I know that coming in in all our kicks most of them are not going to be terribly honest about what hap- happened back then. Both volek this one at least one do if not be authentic. Be respectful of the history. There n i'll say there are some very interesting things going on about. This man's life his issues with alcoholism and courses relationships. I mean you look at even film production. Uc's stories today about films. Even the movies that people like there are some were people get into production travel or they into arguments and things fall out. So you're seeing some issues of bill making back then that even Here edition of things that were there were back year. So it's a film that i would say it's very interesting to watch as Education i will say for as interested. I was to know about this man story. It did kind of drag on a little bit. I didn't feel like i needed to be as long as it And there were parts of the film. Were get carried away into the filmmaking. And that's where where you talking about. This being served like oscar babe. I felt that throughout this film. 'cause they they spend a lot of time talking about so making talking about their favorite pictures and being at a movie at get. This is about the production of the movie. But when you get carried away to that it feels like you're more focused on trying to please the oscar voters than you are at a also wants to focus more. I m the people themselves. That's things that this runs into bad and unfortunately cannot escape and what prevents me from finding this movie. Amazing despite how much i admire and at the end of an els gone back to the I'm glad i watched it. I don't know if i would keep watching it at least as frequently. It's something i will go back to now. And then but not something. I i wanna watch over and over again. I think it's because of the tropes falls too with if follows into a trap regarding oscar bait type movies. But i did like a what about you guys. Just did you go first. 'cause i'm interested to see what you think too since both of you have not seen citizen kane ended like you was it okay to follow or do you feel like you've seen citizen kane. You might have either like the movie more. Yeah okay so i. I don't watch trailers. So i actually had no idea what this was about. I heard the venture a new. Gary oldman and i knew i oscar bait so i'm and this is also like you said a movie about hollywood and make movies again. I'm in and i loved i I having it be about hollywood. really help But you know knowing. I mean it's fascinating. I mean he had sixty days to write this picture and he was able to do it. You know and he has his ways of doing so drinking smoking and You know. I mean gambling. Those his favorite things right so and so that was fun to learn That that's that's him. Being neabry eight is the best way of thinking. You know those super crazy But i love the black and white His his five six minute monologue at the dinner scene at the end was unbelievable. I mean he's definitely going to be nominated for best actor The picture was great. The production was amazing. I think will also be up for this movie Writing for sure. David fincher definitely But yeah the story. He's an interesting guy. I mean you know. He's he's miserable in the way that he acts in but everyone respects them and and and even his wife you know he keeps asking like why he love. She's like oh. And that's all this time. I wanna see out in. You know the big great like a way to look at it and I dunno i thought this is a fantastic i disagree. I think it could have been a little bit longer. I would enjoy that even more You know it was a smooth. Two hours and eleven minutes doesn't make me want to run out to cease it contained but You know i really. I just like the process of learning all about it. And i thought You know. Gary oldman do duck man. I free totally underutilized. She was not even nfl much. I mean the wife Gary oldman's wife. Mrs franken was in a way more than by those really calling. And i just thought they were those. I feel like all the female Positions here weren't given something to store with somebody to take it was they. Were just there you know it was. That was a little unfortunate but i gotta give us. Hi good yeah i mean. We've waited six years. This was this was one of my most anticipated films of the year. I mean all you had to tell me was david fincher gary. Oldman it's about the making a citizen kane. 'cause i love. I love movies about movies sometimes. Not all of them always work out but when you put one of our greatest living directors with one of our greatest living actors surely something amazing is gonna come out of it and it did. This movie's production value is top notch. Shit looks amazing. This definitely should get some sort of sin cinematography nomination as well. It just looks great and that he even includes like the little film blips not to reference another another david. Fincher film the little cigarette burns in the movie like from those old movies. Yeah that that that's when you know that a real is gonna end in the next real start and then is because i didn't even know somebody else wrote the script for citizen came. You know you always hear. The orson welles wrote directed starred and produced this film when he was like twenty seven. But this is fascinating. That maybe orson welles. Even though he was an extremely talented man and quite the showman may be wasn't quite always the geniuses was and that there was someone else that contributed to that and it's also fascinating and it could be a course dramatize because it's a film that there were connections to make a winces life that were put onto the screen for this film and to make it and that he wanted that credit no matter what it cost him. And that's that's a powerful story. Like i don't care it ruins my career if i never work in hollywood again. This is the best thing i've ever written. I want my credit for it. And i think it's great that where it ends where it ends. I would agree with you just in that. Yeah the female characters are definitely underwritten and not utilized very well but almost everyone's kind of playing a backdrop. It's pretty much. The gary oldman show all the way through. And yeah he's for sure getting a nomination. But i can tell you one thing. David fincher does not care what anybody thinks other than david fincher he will happily be nominated and he will happily win if he wins and he will say it's just time since he didn't win for the social network but he doesn't care if the academy likes this movie or not. He made this movie because he wanted to net flicks said. Do whatever you want. And he picked up a script that his dad had written his late. Father wrote the script. So yeah this is an absolute must watch. And i'm actually glad. I recently watched citizen kane again because the game even more deeper knowledge in connection to what was going on behind the scenes and yeah gary oldman once again knocks it out of the park and david fincher reminds us that he is one of the greatest directors working right now. And if you guys haven't watched it you should definitely check out his netflix series minehunter. Good thing I'll note Tread rosner is the the one he does the scoring and and Him atticus rots. Yeah who's the data construct it's Trent res- nur's partner they've done they've done the scores for all offenders film since social network or coffin Also wouldn't shave on. You're talking about like the look of it. You know they were really going for the old timey. Look and and southbound actually when the sound came on in the movie star playing it. I felt like i was in a movie theater like they were projecting that that look in that down to it and Yeah i mean it's it is almost a must watch for me as long as high as good as you can get before it becomes great one. Yeah i don't think i will go that high out just a regular gun kazaa. I'd i i. It's a very gorgeous film. It should get some nominations for the performance side and earliest beyond the runoff for some firm size on the visuals. I just felt the vigils and the acting spoke more than the script. But yeah i. I mean everybody has their own opinions. And yeah i mean. I'm glad they've venture got back in the filmmaking and maybe make more a planner after us whatever he wants to do it. They won't let him do what he wants to do. He won't do it. Yeah he learned his lesson for malian three or so that. Yeah that is. What's my favorite. yeah I zodiac is his masterpiece. I think if you want to know what david fincher is like. And what did david venture movie is. I think it's zodiac. Those already. Have on the show day in next time. Talk about the prom. Another big netflix movie. Got going and it's southern of metal sound medal of on netflixif not exempt prime amazon prime von right now all summer. Actually all three of these movies. I think are on right now. Aren't they comes on next week. The problem is that that's coming out on the eleventh. Okay well at least two out of the three movies are already available to watch so we won't have to watch two on friday arca. I'm happy about that Yeah already saw happy season. Actually before you said we're gonna watch and then i'm gonna walk on a medal today mike. Really but they got some sundance array On this amazing tension. When i got on to last year. Yeah the other thing. I was just gonna stay with the problem now. The musical herro and nicole kidman might be move. Here was also guy keegan. Michael keon isn't that terry he's great. He's great great ukraine jingle jangle. He was that was actually listening to jingle jangle fray started this. I was listening to his song again. Like yeah you got. I wanna give a quick recommendation for a movie amazon. prime uncle. frank starring paul. Benny it is amazing. Is definitely that i'll I'll see disturbed. Well not talking with. Yeah the other thing is now. This is neil change. I so i had another show was the righty pot now. I am actually gonna suspend that. I turn that into puns tv talk and we talked about anna maniacs season. Why in the first half a season. Two for the mandalorian stories resistance. Would that got a lot of attention. And mostly for anna maniacs. We released that the week. Almost the day of anna maniacs. A coming out in on a loop plus or lose that data lot of us but my co-host she is again. Because when i do this you know. No one's getting paid at the moment that assist the four-tenths stance of it swords rather night. They can make the commitment or what their feelings are going to be co host cell. Be lake a. I really enjoyed this ahead. Find bed going on. I feel like i i got a either move on or take a break and do something else. And that's what went on with macos. And i totally get her decision. It's something i. I respect 'cause again so what will happen is suspending. That and i'll i'll just have to talk about whenever i talk about. Tv shows allowed to add that to the pond there but cut it out. It's it's as it's separate recording. So i the week of that movie with the chadwick boseman. I will also rainy. Yeah yeah by. I will also be talking about the last half of season to the mandalorian and all have its own separate courting I meant to talk about the whole season. And i'm gonna commit to that. But that's the thing so for now it's the palm theatre in the gaming tadpole and then interviewing crazy color. Yeah speaking of which in less than a week we got the game awards were going to be live streaming video games word ceremony in boyle do that the same with the oscars of nascar's happened will all watch the oscars together in around commentary to read. And that's going to happen with the game ords. So what's something a look at it. What will be when nassar's happens. Are they in april this year. I think there are enables year april twenty first right because they're leading movies being released in january be considered right february through february. Wow yeah i'll have to get a hbo description now. They know every bit of every movies going there on your pretrial. Yeah all a descent to ulta. Bite the bullet that fifteen dollar subscription so wrong. I mean that's what they're hoping for any ways with this plan. You know besides them knowing that they can't push movies back too much longer counting their losses. They're like well if we put everything on. Hbo mags we might increase their subscriptions. Okay yeah that's an That's a deal that i think other students might fall. I it doesn't. He will have no choice but to go like a crab or we'll have to do that. But yeah i that's an interesting thing. There's a lot of one brothers. Movies expected to release in twenty twenty one. So that's right. yeah and so. They'll be december time in less than a week and speaking of which while it is about video games. They're also going to premiere the trailer for the charge movie. The thing that i always like arcades. Cut this thing out of like no word. This uncharted movies happening with the director of benham. And the writer of transformers age of fallen. Or whatever as i was like. I'm not looking for this but i'll watch the trailer right. Tom holland as nathan drake and mark. Wahlberg sali we'll see what happens. Yeah that is. The cast wasn't mark wahlberg considered for nathan. Drake hit one point eight years ago and now you solely now. He's old enough to be solely. Yeah that's how long thing was ben. Okay anyway we will react to that because that will be in the middle of the game words and then after that Extra life hell they rush december nineteen one to seven sloppy fun airway Again cody film. Page a justin. The worth of the movies have someone knocking downstairs. The rest is quick. russ's on every platform. You know where to find it so just have good time tag alien. Three's not a bad movie orca.

youtube instagram tiktok betty boop oscar kane david fincher disney oscars thirty seconds gary oldman macos justin karate eighty dollars tiktok blyden mr crabs Tristen cunningham mova thackery croydon cairns