20 Episode results for "David Chang"

Chef David Chang

Kickass News

51:40 min | 1 year ago

Chef David Chang

"This is kick ASS news I'm Ben Mathis life is full all of choices and Belkin offers a variety of tech solutions that keep you connected to your world so you never miss a beat remember when companies used to make products that actually sent off at checkout if you're a business owner like me you know that managing sales tax is a complex and time consuming process it's easy books a podcast and two series on net flicks ugly delicious which debuted earlier this year and his latest breakfast lunch and dinner available on Netflix now legendary meltdowns and the open kitchen at Momofuku but diners will always forgive perfectionism if it's in the pursuit of something delicious and made over with its native son Seth Rogan for episode one of breakfast lunch and dinner visiting Marrakech with model Chrissy Teigen and why the best food in Morocco is he says when he was a kid he originally wanted to be Tiger Woods not Wolfgang puck and he eventually got into cooking because he hated his job in finance bona fide culinary genius today David Chang is only mellowed slightly but such is the responsibility when you grow from one restaurant so tiny that chef who rebelled against traditional ideas about what constitutes fine dining ruffled more than a few feathers with his no reservations and no vegetarians policy and you to spend countless hours just trying to keep up with tax compliance instead of working on growing improving your business and at the end of the day you still might screw up your taxes is kick evola tax compliance done right and now on with the show tres and wireless charging docks to keep your smartphone ready to go at any time better performance better durability better quality better with Belkin down shaped his success and why he still worries that his success could all go up in smoke and speaking of smoke dave talks about smoking weed and Turing Vancouver recalls learning his art in some of the best kitchens in New York and Tokyo then rebelling against New York's fine dining establishment how struggling to get Momofuku off the ground the GO-TO Belkin dot com and use Promo Code kick ass at checkout for thirty percent discount that's Belkin dot com and Promo Code kick ass for thirty x beginning October twenty third today David Chang joins me on the show to discuss his latest TV series and the liberating feeling of eating exploring with friends aroma desk chair all over him again and again and to this day I have never had to replace a single belkin product checkout belkins cable screen protector earn filing avalanche software seamlessly integrates with your accounting e commerce and point of sale systems so it couldn't be easier and they have experts in are disrupting the restaurant industry and what that means for chefs coming up with David Chang in just a moment this and get audited or find thankfully there's avalanche era avalanche simplifies sales tax with real time tax rate calculations and automatic return fifteen countries around the world to help as you grow learn more at aval era that's a V. A. L. A. R. A. dot com slash. I'm Ben Mathis Welcome to kick ASS news when David Chang I stormed onto the New York restaurant scene in two thousand four the upstart and in the restaurants he talks about his love hate relationship with the California food seen customers who instagram their food how delivery APPS and other food tax winning chef and founder of momofuku which now includes over a dozen restaurants around the world he's the author of the bestselling Cookbook Momofuku host of the popular. He couldn't put backs on the chairs because patrons wouldn't be able to reach the restroom to a food entertainment empire that now encompasses fourteen restaurants bestselling cooked. Yeah with a second Netflix series called breakfast lunch and dinner Bill de Follows Jang as he travels around the world accompanied by some of his celebrity friends like Seth Rogan Chris the delicious podcast and the host of ugly delicious on Net flicks and eight part documentary series about foods we love and the stories that shape them now he's Teigen lean away th and Kate McKinnon available on Netflix starting October twenty third and today David Chang join me on the podcast David welcome it's a real honor to be Sir David Chang is a James Beard award in the country okay the Vietnamese Indian yeah you also have how should I are you not seeing anywhere else and that's an amazing thing and I'm not even talking about like the specific like if you just want to food that's as good as that's very good for business but particularly for restaurants there's low there's no state income tax there's say a city council that allows people to build whatever they want okay okay very little little regulation and the lack of regulation and be able to do what you want I mean that's the opposite of your standard of living is higher you know it's it's it's it's a pretty good place to I- predestined profession. Yeah and I burned out at the ripe age of like thirteen yeah pretty good I thought I was pretty good but maybe the best in America maybe outside of Orange County who knows it's definitely in conversation and Houston is always surprising cancelled game I would do it not because I liked doing it so I could like get better at something I disliked because of the different ethnic groups it's one of the most diverse on paper I think the most diverse population in terms of immigrants you say that like it's one of your favorite food towns in the world why is that absolutely because Houston there's no place quite like it Europe I think pretty early on I didn't really have an aptitude to do well in school okay so I bouncy of the Gulf of Mexico you have great seafood you have also great farms and in animals you have ultimately I think one of the reasons I burned out besides not loving it is I wasn't as good as I thought it was yeah do you still play at all I've played three times since thank you for having me I'm really interested in your fascination with Houston because I am originally from Houston I never thought of it as having a huge food scene but apparently a lot of colleges around you it's like okay you have everything okay and that's it just seems like it's a perfect yeah it's a it's a hobby I'm ultracompetitive and dry to again that's not a sport I love but because so much of it is kids would never work in it so the irony of getting into it you know isn't lost on me the Gulf was in that same boat weirdly enough And I I think I had I would say some kind of existential crisis the twenty one twenty two I didn't want to do something and be mediocre at it and I worked in the financial services industry and Orm to create a culinary environment that is truly unique in American can you see mergers of cuisines happening there is a profession and you know after graduating college I taught English for a little bit I lived in Jackson Hole I did all these things that didn't make it's funny your parents Kinda head to businesses they owned restaurants and they owned a golf warehouse and at least initially you started off leaning more toward the latter open up a restaurant and now are you going to open a restaurant there or what have one right now we don't but you never know yeah I genuinely love Houston it's I mentioned my dad really discouraged from cooking and you were just rebelling against your parents is that it yeah I think so but but not really like I didn't understand huma sense mainly because I couldn't get a job in ninety nine that's when everyone was working at tube socks dot com or some dot com or trying to be some banker investing or whatever what's so cost prohibitive you get very interesting results yet I mean compared to New York seem like a dream for a chef to kind of more or less had an idea that that would be a fun thing to do almost as a hobby or to be a good cook never thinking about it literally doing like what working hard for nothing I mean it didn't make any there was no intrinsic reward yeah about I I it was the beginning of food network television I grew up watching PBS shows great chefs of the West the Tiger Woods when you were my father wanted me to be okay he was that really like tiger woods way ahead of the curve in terms of Asian parents eighteen dinner you say that you feel more at home Japan than you do in Korea even why is that what is it about Japan that speaks to you know I tried to get their kids to play Golf yeah the dad works entire life to get out of the restaurant business and to make sure is two thousand and three okay it's a huge waste of time can we just be honest I don't think reading time and it's it's having Korean friends and not having Korean friends I was able to have a diverse sort of set of friends and I never quite and how I lived in what I did and where I worked I think a lot of it just made sense to me and I still don't know how or why but to what's developing and percolating there and because of that ability for people to try something new because it's got all the sports teams you want for sure you know they say Austin's weird I think Houston is way weird well I'm interested in how you came to cooking because and I couldn't get any of those jobs so Ernie as people always asking why did you get into cooking well a lot of people don't even cooking because they couldn't get any other jobs and I was Japanese at a young age basically grew up in Japan I mean that's the best way to explain this and he didn't like Korean food she didn't like Kimchi Like helping a company that worked with European companies to list on the New York Stock Exchange and it was the closest thing I could get I was a gopher and I did had Internet painewebber and wealth private wealth management and after teaching three months in Japan I came back to get a job doing Korea as a country I have a strange relationship because growing up in northern Virginia I I was shocked at as they call me Yopal which is translates to foreign born and that's not a he kind comment I saw that place that I was always excited to go to really wasn't embracing of me and embrace cream culture I was always like sort of in between and when I went to create in college and a summer abroad program so the irony is I get the Japan total isolation really I got to see a side of Japan that I don't know if a lot of people get to see that is a warped warped way sure so then what was it that initially got you into cooking again from America right korean-american kids and this is a very common program that I would find some more like minded individuals and that wasn't the case either I definitely didn't want to do what I was doing well yeah now you spend quite a few years working in different kitchens in New York and also in Japan and in fact I think in breakfast a lot of the well-to-do intelligent educated men and women of Korea when they're at a certain age talked to basically for many years as the colonized by Japan and you know there's there's a lot of history shouldn't necessarily get into you right now but I was like this is not for me and I had to take the leap of faith to try to do something new and I did it no of cooking was going to be my calling all I knew was I one of the reasons why for sure that Japan more at home my grandfather on my mom's side and really was instrumental figure in my life growing up as a toddler nothing and I just saw pretty quickly that this is the life for a lot of people in while might be enriching to them sitting at a desk that's that's a loaded comment for a lot of people if especially if you're Korean or Japanese you know Koreans have historically been seen as a second class citizen to Japanese called all these fancy restaurants in New York and not knowing enough to know what's what not possible I went to Japan to study noodles to learn Rahman it was something that Listrik with my expectations and knowing that however good I was at cooking there was probably Lisa dozen people ahead of me and at that time to open up a restaurant and that's one nostalgic reason and there's a few others but yeah it's a it's a strange thing to go to Japan if feel like it's a little bit more each stuff and I just always remember that like while grandpas different yeah and I think for whatever reason when I got to it was if you told someone in nineteen eighty nine that you love food in this is before the word foodie really even existed you were seen as a snob and it was elitist Really yes with a lot of Korean students that were trying to our bite is like a part time job this I'm trying to like edit out some stuff in my head because this Dan Junkie he didn't like the staples that everyone else in my mom's family or my Dad's side loved and we would go out and city where right in two thousand yeah like boulay down yeah and it's almost like it's the only kind of restaurant that could afford do and now I wonder when you came back from Japan and you open Momofuku Noodle House you're trying to transport this idea of the Asian Noodle House to New York's I hate like king and cheaply and how was that possible and this is before guidebooks I mean yeah there was lonely planet and stuff like that but city did he won at that point was that fifteen years ago have a reference for what a noodle house was in New York no not really and having worked at world and not the world but particularly in Asia and the thing that I was always amazed at when I lived in Japan I actually lived in a homeless shelter with a lot of Burger they're eating delicious complex foods so when I times not Sushi Sushi in Japan a lot of times it's going to be pretty expensive the rabbit hole is a very deep and diverse and we just get an American distillation of what actually is in terms of the perspective particularly then Japanese food we'd get on a bus in and we'd take the bus around a lot of different weekends I remember as a kid and he would take me and he would teach me how the was a right that everybody wants to have and to eat well affordably and a city as expensive as Japan I mean station could hours anyway I I've saw something that I didn't see while I lived in America that eating well uh and he was a well to do Korean person but was really Japanese because he was educated in Japan because he they the things were happening in my life some personal issues family issues and also I I had a hard time adjusting back to America I lived in America I lived in Japan they didn't really cover restaurants in the infinite maze of the culinary landscape that is Japan and I just got lost and I because I could never stopped spots and can travel China a little bit and just seeing that like weight people eat really well for them and they don't just is insane as it sounds is is true the only way you're going to get your own restaurant and that'd be a fancy fine dining restaurant which was truly the only kind of restaurant listen there there's a there's certainly a easy way to like see that but I was fortunate enough to be able to travel based in New York and he seems like it's even more so these days it seems like the more and more rents go up one day you're only going to have daniels and boo but it wasn't just the real estate in Atlantic City because they actually had noodle bars right and they get a lot of Asian customer's rat so I went anywhere and I just went down this rabbit hole go around go move back to Japan to cook for about ten months and I didn't expect to get culture shock coming back and one of the things for me going back even though I'm not there's so many other types of cuisine Japanese food available there's so like not just Japanese food all hall foods really particularly in Asia Dan as four and as it was and it's very foreign still to me however hard it was I just made more sense Elise Culinary speaking wise afford anything expensive I just saw it out things one of the things I really ate a Lotta was Robin and compiled a list and I went to all the uh even in New York but like it was a slow process to get you so I would be very very behind on the leaderboard of getting that tap is never going to be better than them in that regard because the only way you're going to get a restaurant is some wealthy patron said Hey Daniel Balloon I have a restaurant I want to open unease I could blend in okay like I'm not aware of my skin color and then to come back and all the manners and I I just was like I got to figure out how to open up a place and that's how noodle bar opened up and idea having Rahman shop then did not exist there was one the thing that happens the people start to live their life when they get diagnosed with cancer I saw us as we operated as a terminally ill patient well because it was like a calling to me and and opened up in two thousand four without any idea what I was doing and we served on the shoulder okay so and also cooking food that was while technically beautiful it was not meaningful to me because what I really wanted was to make so I I I came back to America and I worked for balloon in Asia Carmelina cafe balloon which at the time I thought was the best restaurant and exist and to the point where I worked at any place that served noodle soup on the eastern seaboard I even worked in some casinos Oh yeah teams are different even how they season food is much more subtle and to come back to New York I it took me a long time to get reacclimated up in Pittsburgh do you have someone in mind that I could you could send me up with and that's literally how you will get your own restaurant but not New York would be different which is why I look back at it and it's it's I I sometimes oftentimes think about that Coen brothers movie were the first few months and then I guess at a certain point you come to this realization that okay yes we can do great noodles but we can also do all kinds of other things do whatever tastes good uh-huh and I think that also added to the fact that I was in a kitchen where some very terrific chefs that have done great things and I think I was right to get out because I was Chinese versus chinese-american. Yeah but I think a little bit more hostile just I thought even with the kids all over he's still struggling with cancer I just was I this is this is how we looked at it we're going to be open to anything and everything and we're gonNA throw out what's to cheapen the the the the the the metaphor analogy cancer but having had seen cancer in my family and and the strange sick things that happen that are just comical all turned out for the better somehow and I never put too much cool what we think we have to do we're GONNA do whatever works and as painful as that whole moment was we found her identity through that like Louis Davis where the opposite of Loon Davis was basically Bob Dylan and I'm not comparing myself to that that's not what I'm trying to say I often compare myself was the Aha moment I mean our home is you're going out of business really okay yeah yeah that's a good motivator and and and I I never and for people that that that like me like I wanted to eat the food that I want to eat and not do this really beautiful stuff for Upper East siders asked and didn't need to be replaced every year or two that's Belkin I've been using Belkin chargers and cables for years I beat him up I drop them a twist them much credit and we've been in the right place at the right time and we've definitely worked our butts off yeah but had we had a more traditional that I wanted to own a lot of my peers we're going to Europe and again a lot of this came from golf on a a very competitive person always checking the scoreboard and very real chefs when you're hiring apparently you look for chefs who have as you put it just barely enough talent why because if you are and the only option is to try everything yeah and to have the will and the grit and determination not to to go out of business and at the time my mom and and what I'm looking for is really three things but one is are they harder on themselves than anyone else when they make mistakes and I wish it was any other way yeah it's interesting what you said about how you don't put much stock in skill because I've heard you say that really good cooks never become great go for a year and kind of wait to find your way or maybe you'd stayed at per se or Daniel and kind of tried to work your way up through the fine dining system no absolutely everything often investors and a comfort level of financing. I I'm kind of person that doesn't work well with the net okay you know that it's momofuku noodle Barmen and should have gone on a business almost times yeah yeah I've heard you talk about what a struggle it wasn't the New York City called rewrite Kenneth still there but in terms of Rahmen Ulama saw at at Japanese restaurants and maybe it was with Oudin but it didn't really like emphasis on skill mine very lucky that we're here we've had some great people I've gotten way too Louis Davis because it's like he if you made a right turn and said Oh left turn things would've been in in right when I look about at that time all of these really dark dark yeah I mean do you think your life would have ended up in a much different place if you had had some huge roster of investors backing you that you could I need to light a fire under your ass I need to know that like there's nothing that's GonNa save me and and I had to really unfortunately that gets the best out in the and are they gonna go to bed at night not being able to sleep because they could have done a better job and to like do they have like this idea of total terminate a cook you're GonNa get better it's not a skill set that it's not like I'm asking people to figure out some quantum mechanic immersion in it that they do that to me sort of translators love of the business it's like they can't get enough of it that they have to do it and it's this idea that blonde right right this is craft and through repetition regardless of your skill level hard work in this industry is the great equalizer Jellison me I actually think the more common approach to the more realistic approach and loving your job is you love it fifty one percent versus forty nine percent loving something I think has been a manipulated by marketing. Somehow because it's like if you love something particularly the job you gotta wake up every day with a smile thing in this is the best in everyone's on the same spectrum going after the same gum yeah I loved episode one because you go to Vancouver with its favorite son Seth Rogan and because Seth Rogan and because it's Vancouver which has always had a fairly tolerant attitude dull mind altering substances you guys smoke a lot of weed or at least it looks luncheon dinner while it is essentially a friends traveling eating having fun I do think that they're still a sense of discovery let them all the time and you have to be comfortable in failing you have to be completely like surrender to the idea failing and failing not being I want to know to someone have the kind of integrity that right when they can make shortcut and no one's going to know Are they to go traveling with friends what did you want to do with breakfast lunch and dinner that you couldn't do with ugly delicious well ugly delicious is in someone holds and they realized that they were wrong yeah and that could be me or someone else in the show and I think for breakfast and that could be again me or or or my friend or you know the city it just to me while two different things I knew that filming that episode was going to contain it because it is legal in Vancouver and seth is bad thing yeah well you've got so much on your plate these days you have your show ugly delicious on Netflix and now you have breakfast lunch and dinner I really interesting because it's almost like which is hard to say to a chef you know you have to take your ego out of it and you have to have that mentality of wanting to be a person all of the different origins of one particular food and how is influenced by different cultures that you didn't even know about and I love Bill de just because it's just fun the people but the only way you can really like motivate people is the carrot of personal growth yes that's enjoyed ugly delicious because it was so interesting how you explore the cultural and sociological aspects of a specific food and do this very deep dive and all and even if they do something right no one's gonNA congratulate them are they still going to try to do it the harder way only reward and cooking which is why I think it's so hard to it's owned thing and it's I mean it's a labor of love because a lot of work from a lot of different people goes into it but we really wanted to figure out how to the manager of people in the Culinary Force which is why I don't think chefs and restaurant managers get enough credit unfortunately I hopefully things change in terms of how we can view culture in food and and not to go too deep into it it just it's you know it's exploring those are the qualities like usually family meal and those are the three things I really look for is is is I'm not trying to judge a person at their best moments do you smoke weed or is it just that seth's we'd is particularly I don't really smoke weed college but he's just a just a wonderful guy he's a nice it can be as grounded as can be and Vancouver couldn't ask for a better ambassador of that city than Steph he chur in ways that hopefully people haven't seen and it's a sense of discovery and in that sense discovery could also be a held a genuinely loves it and I'm always shocked at how down to Earth he is and I think he's a really a reflection of the personality of that city is so many good people and yeah we there was there was a marijuana smoked a lot of it and I it was only having one puff okay so but it was powerful stuff is powerful stuff yeah I was nervous about that whole day yeah now I've When he was in high school in the population was sixty percent Asian what is the appeal of Vancouver to Chinese emigrants I'm not sure we SORTA covered it when we're at the Hong Kong Barbecue Master and I I don't know why Chinese immigrant patterns would have a play out in Vancouver for whatever reason I don't know the answer became sort of the one of the central hubs yeah and that's who is in in service of someone else and trying to make someone happy and yourself do at riot there's a right way and there's a wrong and there was a high standards and I I heard that there's a big Chinese population in Vancouver and it Kinda comes through on this show you guys go to a lot of great Asian restaurants there and I said something like over of Hong Kong to back to China and I think ninety seven and a how that had serious repercussions for how this is the natural abundance of British Columbia the seafood there it's a really remarkable city yeah I mean Vancouver Nick the hard thing about a show like this is you touch upon topics you would love to go deeper in and one of those would be the the handle lament that you should be spending all of your time in the kitchen but yet all of this other stuff that you're doing takes you away from that if you've got this huge food and entertainment people would say oh it rains too much it's rains for like five minutes a day yeah it's an amazing place and I think it's in that episode where you actually how I tend not to fink about whatever's happened in the past I tend to only think about the negative and you know those that are close to me no think I'm still just trying to figure it out like everyone else I still have the same insecurities had as a teenager yeah and all the success is something that I don't really believe too much empire that you run with Netflix shows and podcast and books and all that do you sort of feel like you're kind of a victim of your own success at this point I don't think I'm a victim love really yeah I think you just evaporate in a day or something yes pretty paranoid gentlemen to begin with but yeah I wanNA be wrong and with all the things that are happening I think it can happen because we have a good team and I know that sounds great this many restaurants at the level that you're operating them and ensure quality control and ensure that every diner gets the kind of experience that you originally intended unless you I'm a pretty pessimistic person and I always joke that I'm really an optimist that a pessimist is the best version of optimism because I want to be wrong eight and sort of like a canned response but but you have to we have I mean you cannot op all these people are saying Hey Chinaman Hey Jackie Chan and it's almost like they're weirdly oblivious to the to the overt racism there but ask you know in a variety of roles but I don't oversee the day to day anymore I I'm there I still I work a tremendous amount and one of the reasons I guess I worked I think tourism is I think it's been affected by some form of tourism or several hundred years right and and I didn't get a chance to visit Casa Blanca or any of the other cities in Morocco but you're cold place you wouldn't think that would be a natural place I'd argue some of the best food Chinese food particularly in the world in the world is because of the resource it's just that people always say the best food is in someone's home and we were very fortunate enough to have Tariq and his family his wife and his daughter allow us to it's a weird place because Morocco it's not like its neighbors in the sense that it's way more culturally tolerant than a lot of North Africa and the Middle East technology and I found it to be stifling a bit that every restaurant particularly then it really seemed like every restaurant it just literally San Francisco Bay area and what got taken out is a first time I ever got in public trouble yeah and anymore but it certainly keeps me from doing stupid things all an episode two of Bill De you'll get the wonderful privilege of going to America us as hard as I do because it is an addiction I am addicted to work there's no question about your work on it's one of the few addictions that's like totally accepted just so people don't send me hate mail I I listened to as a person I try to celebrate all things that are tolerance that are hard for all things new culturally from politics to sexuality to music to drugs to food much younger fellow was San Francisco and the Bay area at large embraces the new and it's been sort of the van and San Francisco celebrates diversity and maybe that was a true in every facet except food food scene here I'm GonNa beat you up with this quote she said they don't manipulate food they just put figs on a plate now you ever restaurant here major Domo your a little bit better because I was definitely young and dumb but I I wasn't trying to denigrate anyone I was simply jealous yeah personally spending a lotta time here have you changed your mind about that was not about Los Angeles that will quote that Tony Bourdain in two thousand nine hundred it's fascinating and that could be applied to California at large and yeah I think that without going deeper into that I understand that have dinner with them and it was a wonderful meal yeah I would love to go back there and it's funny because as you're going through the soup and Marrakech to a food festival we spoke about San Francisco Oh that will okay that was California not specific down to have the produce of California is unbelievable Oh yeah like you know you walk in when a pharmacist have that team right that really believes in your vision to and it's no longer my vision I've stepped down as CEO and the Vision now belongs to Marguerite Mary Scowl and I'm there mental figuring my life all I was trying to suggest could've articulated much better was with the produce that San Francisco has and the East what do you think that is I'm not sure I think a lot of it has to do with the if I had to guess it'd be the history and the and the trade yeah it was pretty much like seven months outta the year and the sweetness of the strawberries and the citrus and not just the the with Chrissy Teigen I love Eric Cash I think that was your first time I I I love it because it literally like Ladan it's been ten years those places growing up in Houston I kind of have a real taste for the cage and stuff but it's interesting I've noticed that especially La all the good Cajun shrimp boil places diverse and open and I try to be that fail more often than not and what I was just trying to explain coastal California but crabs crab eating and crawfish it's not the sophisticated dining that it has that it should be the best place in the world to eat it's hard to do that when everyone's doing the same and it's this homogenize thing was trying to cook food exactly or the same elk of shape unease and I love waters and she's been very food now speaking of the abundance of the ocean in that episode you go to a Cajun crawfish boil place in La. I think it's called hot and juicy yes I love the for ten years since I was there beautiful beautiful city and it's funny that you chose it because it's not really a restaurant town you say in the show so we're here and you just eat dates like oh yeah there's dates in this country we in California forget that not all of the country has access to avocado law right yeah this is already yeah I'll sleep when I'm debt and and part of that

Sir David Chang Seth Rogan Ben Mathis California Louis Davis Netflix Belkin New York Vancouver instagram cancer founder James Beard award Kate McKinnon Orange County America New York City Europe Houston
David Chang

Experts on Expert with Dax Shepard

1:38:31 hr | 7 months ago

David Chang

"Welcome welcome welcome to armchair expert. I'm DAX shepard joined by modest mouse. Oh Monster Mouse. Ooh Monster Mouths. Are you doing monster mouse? Good in my apartment again. Love it here. Yeah when I arrive in. The door was cracked to grant me entry entry. There was a smell. Wafting out into the foyer and it was the most delightful inviting smell. You burn a lot of Nice candles in here thank you. I mean that could have gone either way could have been well. Oranges spoilt sure things. I'm glad it was the candle. Is there a specific sent rivers edge Woodsy earthy actually was Hack Nuclear Holiday Winter Candle? Okay well you would never know. Never well today. We have a really fun guest. David Chang David. Chang is an American restaurant tour and author and television personality. He is the founder of the Momofuku Restaurant Group restaurants in New York Washington. Dc Las Vegas Angeles Sydney in Toronto. We've eaten at several. These in Bozeman delighted he also has the TV show on Netflix. Ugly Delicious Breakfast lunch and dinner in the mind of chef very much enjoyed talking to David and I really really appreciated his honesty and You know he's an industry that's being hit the hardest right now so I appreciate his time side. No you may hear a few audio issues at the beginning of this but we sorted it out pretty early into the interview so hopefully that will clear up quickly. There was some mechanical technology difficulties. This is the time we're living in and we're learning and growing so if you think the audience a little dicey if I hang in there it gets fantastic and I hope you enjoy David. Chang guys are you. I'm good hanging in there. Are you held up in New York? No we're staying right outside at a friend's house because in Korean Culture. The the one-year birthdays like a really big thing in March. I A lot of family in town. Smaller the place in stock so I couldn't keep them all at my apartment and I asked one of my friends who has several rooms in a house that was himself was like. I need a crash at your place for the foreseeable future. There's a ton of people right now. It's been a traumatic three weeks or four. I don't even know how long it's been anymore. I would imagine for you. It's gotTa Be Twenty Times more stressful because of all the different industries. That are getting hit the hardest. The restaurant industry is just in a shambles. Yeah yes it's one of the most exposed businesses right now and. I'm trying to be optimistic but I WANNA know what the Florida's and I don't know anyone that hasn't laid off a ton of employees in my industry and that's you know honestly like I don't care about restaurants right now you know. People find a way to feed themselves in a variety of ways and thank God. They're still restaurants that are open to take win delivery. The biggest concern. I have is for all the employees that were undocumented or documented. They don't have a job right now. So that's not nice to think about well and especially your setup primarily in New York right so the majority of your employees are all living in a city that is. Let's say it's not too cheap to live there. You can't really just kind of float along for a while and that sort of the discrepancy. In the recently passed stimulus bill is expenses New Yorker very different than for employees and say Las Vegas Trento or California and it's been a whirlwind. We have a really good team and we're trying our best and that's the hardest thing I know that we have people on our teams that are like. Hey you need to do a better job and I don't disagree but we're doing our best in a situation where no one could have been prepared. I can't imagine they taught this class at culinary school. So it's like when you have to weather a three month shutdown due to a pandemic make sure you do X Y. And Z the. I think it's GonNa be Navy a little bit longer than three months to and that's all my friends and I in the industry peers are trying to sort out is what does it look like when you do reopen up so it's very murky now. Is Your wife Korean? She is or she likes similarly first generation. Like you yes. She's I jan. Her parents were born in Korea. And they're with us right now and I am one of the few people I feel like that absolutely adores the in laws. And how how old's your baby? If you hear him yelling stares he's just turned thirteen months. Spent mazing to be able to like give bath every night and I try my best even before this all happen to make food. You know practice lunch and dinner but that's really the only good thing that's happening Spending time with them and getting to see him almost walk. That's where he's at right now and I would say there's like another week before it's GonNa really take his first steps. That's the best thing if I was working. I definitely be missing it or I'd be watching on video or facetime so I wouldn't change that for anything because it's been a total joy to see him develop for us and I don't know a ton about you but I have to imagine you've been sprinting. Now for I don't know ten twelve years. Yeah no actually. I opened up. Who in August of two thousand four? And that was just me you know at the time like no one really wanted to work with me and now we have over fifteen hundred of we used to have over fifteen hundred and four years. Wow yes so I have to imagine just every step along. The way has been really time. Consuming energy consuming. It is nonstop and honestly I didn't know what to do until I you know maybe a month before our son was born. I was just freaking out because I did not stop like I work my ass off. I`Ma Addict to work might have an addictive personality. To begin with and work is though only sorta socially acceptable addiction. I'm a big time addicts work. Yeah first and foremost mom and dad are from Korean debts from North Korea. Yeah moms from South Korea. Both my parents were born in. What is now? North Korea My mom came from a very well to do family. Where a lot of like I would say. Intellectuals lived in my grandfather who work in the government guests in effect. You sort of attorney general at the time and my Dad's side basically came from nothing and he was born on what is now the border of China and Korea and they lifted the war. They lost everything. And it's a whole horrible story ended up itself. Yes so how? Did they meet? This is like literally the story that I've been told they were at a picnic with some friends from my dad's older sister and my dad saw my mom peeling an apple with a knife. He's like wow. She peels it so well. I Have Z. Criteria I don't know how much I believe that hold us. That's in when Harry met Sally or sleepless in Seattle. I forget which one sleepless in Seattle. There's an apple peeling with a knife scene into someone fall in. Love is resolved it has to do with the love. Of course now dying to watch your mom peel and I have to imagine it's borderline Rodham. She's really good at it. So what what age were they when they came to the US so my dad came to America in one thousand nine hundred sixty three and he moved to New York I think it was pretty traumatic for him and his wind up washing dishes. And you know living what you believe as Real immigrant experience just getting any kind of our job and making your way through that I think he was here for like three or four years and then he came back to create and that's what he meant by mom and then they came back making sixty eight or sixty nine and My Dad was working in restaurants on the more of a front of house level and then And then my sister was born. I seventy nineteen seventy but at some point they end up owning restaurants and even a golf store is accurate. Yeah my dad basically a hustler. I there's giant sections of my dad's history that will never be known. That's exciting. Yeah I have no idea like how he wind up in New York and I guess he worked in restaurants going all the way down to the mid Atlantic wound up in Washington. Dc how he wound up owning a restaurant is is crazy to me and there's crazier stories like somehow. I think for a year or two. He lived in some small town in Kentucky and again having a Korean Dad is is not always easy to get any information out of well now historically in La. There is a path for Korean immigrants. Which is that you know. There's a huge community. They often on a community level. Raise money and loan money to new immigrants to start? Small businesses. Was any of that happening for him. Out there yeah. That's how he actually got into the Gulf business and he wound up getting out of the restaurant business and I don't know how she had some foresight into golf. And that's basically what I did for five to two like fourteen or so just playing every day but around that time he got in the Gulf business. And they're probably I'M GONNA say twelve to fourteen tree and men that divide it up the Washington. Dc Area Oh no shit Maryland DC in northern Virginia and at the time they divided it all up. But I think they'll pull their money. The people that had the most money obviously took the best locations in that area the wealthiest occasions my dad being the poorest at the time was given Route seven in Leesburg. Virginia Tyson's corner and that's before Tyson's corner became one of the biggest shopping malls in America. So she was like given the worst worst location and wound up being the best location. Ono's yet yeah. Yeah was called. Tyson's Washington Gulf Center and it was in a dilapidated warehouse. But you can't call something center if you've only got like four hundred square feet right. It was it was big and it's sort of like you know such a long time ago recollections of basically looking like Costco just like golf clubs and balls everywhere just stocked on the floor and you know my dad's whole thing was spend no money on how things look sure sure. Did you work there as a kid? Yes I did so I have a lot of class warfare stuff and I'm going to get into that with you. When it comes to fine. Dining I was a real reluctant adopter. Ka Fine dining because it just screams rich people and I feel less than in judged when I'm in a fine dining place so I wanna get into that later but then also kind of does that to me so if I had to pick the last group of people I'd WanNa be interfacing with on a regular. It'd be like rich dudes looking to golf on the weekend. I was too young but I don't remember where we were too. There wasn't like old money coming to us. Okay it was just so barebones that I feel like people that went to buy something there. We're going there because it was like discount. Okay right right wasn't it wasn't like Caddyshack Not Mike. Not at all but if my dad any similarities. It's a little bit like Rodney Dangerfield. But yeah it was working the cash register me breaking down boxes and then when. I got old enough now to re drip repair golf clubs and I did that. When I wasn't practicing playing golf like my dad was pretty ahead of his time in regards like now. It's like a joke. If you're creating American that you want your son or daughter be like golf star and When I was playing golf there were no other Asian people on the golf course. Well Yeah I was thinking 'cause I'm four years older than you and I was thinking like. Oh His dad was following the tiger woods playbook but now there is no tiger woods. Play book at that Point Right. I mean I actually knew about tiger pretty early on just from playing competitor goals. You know that was a sobering thing when you're when you're like eleven twelve years old and you think you're really good and you learn you're never going to beat this person. I think most people in the to or felt that way for about a decade. What kind what are we looking at handicap for you at your peak depending on? Don't bullshit me David probably around scratch. Oh my my Monica. Does that mean anything that is? You just spoke to completely different language. I've no idea what he's scratch means. On average you're hitting par on every hole like say it's a first three than a portfolio than a part three par. You're getting at the end of the round. You're not above or below. Which is that's very very rare rare rare but I didn't know what was going on because I was so young when I was playing and You know my whole world surrounded in center on Gulf or religion and what religion Presbyterian and you know. I basically burned out once. I just didn't have that mental game to play competitor golf so that was pretty hard. Yeah also did you experience. All that like very stereotypical first generation Asian parents type of pressure. Oh yeah it would be seen as abuse of parenting today for sure but walk me through a day in the life of a teenage first generation. Korean I just always remember some kind of punishment right and it wasn't always like physical. I don't know you know what like I talked to my brothers about it. We're always in a state of fear that we're not doing a good enough job when you to work harder and are just remember. My Dad always saying like hustle. You have the Hustle Hustle and a lot of that was manifested in the golf course when I say about playing golf like most of my memories are on a golf course because I would say hundred fifty days. A year for ten years was playing goal. 'cause I was one of a bunch of tournaments when I was younger so the expectations for new or maybe a little bit higher and I mean I saw pretty early on. There was a different standard of how you know the kids. I was friends with that. We're all like white kids from you know. Let's say upper middle class families where being traded in Gulf wasn't the center of their life they had other hobbies. Whatever War I just? I didn't have that option. So did your parents care about academics or were they just pushing the golf thing. One hundred percent fills definitely the Gulf thing but the weird thing how create immigration happen? I think is similar to a lot of immigrants that came here. They're SORTA two classes for KRENZ. You know a lot of people that again. If it wasn't golf was in church and a lot of people at Church that were considered like. I won't say the well to do they. They were on these because they were doctors. Or engineers academics. And then you have everyone else. That was a data owner or dry cleaner owned several level. Or something like that so it was a very like weird to caste system in some ways super similar to the Indian Migration Story. Yeah Yeah and so like my dad was like always do better in school but I think he saw pre early on that. I had no aptitude so my sister was the real bookworm strenuous student. It didn't mean that he wasn't demanding of like getting the best grades. But I you know I talked about in the book that got pushback publishing because of this Kobe. Nineteen like took a long time for me to process it but I was so scared of my dad that I couldn't really achieve in academics. Because I was so scared of a punishment your values just run running rampant psych myself out and I never did well at school ever. You grew up in what what would be a DC suburb basically. Yeah a Virginia. It's weird though because I spent a lot of time in Virginia like proper. 'cause I think the south doesn't really start until you get the Richmond right. Yeah and my dad had a business there and I play a lot of tournaments down there so I would probably go to Richmond every weekend. That's honestly was like instrumental in my life. Because I got to see what American food actually really was now. How much is being Asian by? I can't imagine you're one of a thousand in your town. Probably or the northern Virginia wind up having a lot of Koreans. And that's why the church is so important in so many Korean American immigrants because there's a huge population Chicago Atlanta has one obviously California. You mentioned but the Korean population in the DC Virginia area is pretty huge. Okay but like I just never fitted with cream. People and I did a fit into our traditional whites. You Monica could have a real long off. Did you want to be white? Monica wanted to be white but one hundred percent with my brother. My older brother all the time. It's like my older brother's name is young. Mom and dad gave you David. You should sit back and just the whole thing from how. My brother doesn't eat a lot of Korean food. Because of the scarring just being made fun. Oh that's unfortunately a brutal way to grow up. Oh yeah I resented everything being Korean and you know. The funny thing is by being honest about this now Monica. I wonder if you feel the same way by saying how much didn't WanNa be creamed back. Then Yeah today twenty. Twenty there will be Asians that like fuck you Dave Chang. How can you say that I was like? I'm not saying that now. I'm not saying I felt like I didn't WanNa be created yet but people aren't listening to that. I totally agree and I talked. We talked about it all the time on this podcast and we have another podcast since a relationship. One that I talk so much about these early experiences and trying to distance myself from my ethnicity so much and yet there's a lot of backlash it seems that comes back but I almost think it's it's fear based I think when I hear people responding like because how can you argue with someone's emotional ride. You can't and it was different then indefinitely way different for you. I mean slowly gotten better for people of different ethnicities. I think but it's just hard. It's just hard to be different. Yeah it made it feel like whatever I didn't fit in like magnified like ten axe but I ate too. You know the customs that we had and the names and the whole nine it was just like oh how am I ever GonNa fit in here because it's not even all these other secondary tertiary things? It's how I look is why never gonNA fit it. I'll add as well even the black community. You couldn't be more marginalized but at least in the black community. You have all kinds of different celebrities you can point to Farrah aspirational people who've achieved success in comedy. You know dramatic actor. Stars of TV shows sports. Heroes for both of you. There's there's really no one in the popular. Zeitgeist is that is crushing. Has the Korean ordinary Indian? That you go like well it. It could be fine. I could turn out to be Eddie Murphy. Yeah you you just have white people the point to so you think you have to be close to that is you can get in order to have any sort of success. That's why you know parasite winning the sweeping. The ostrich was such a monumental moment for Korean people at least in America because they're like Holy Shit. We have someone that we can root for. That's actually Korean. Yeah so your brother didn't like Korean food which I get you. Were not in that same position as you liked the food. It was interesting because I ain't really well like my grandfather's side on my mom's side. They were well to do and he was basically Japanese in the early nineteen hundreds Japan Colonized Korea. You know there. There's a lot of old wounds that maybe never will be healed. From Korea's perspective increase basically been the doorstop for Asia for China and Japan. Away like he was raised so they took a lot of the well-to-do and smart Korean men and women and basically taught them in Japan so they basically brainwash them to be their proxies in Korea. Just slowly like simulate Japanese culture back and he didn't like Korean food. My grandfather food each happenings foods so when I get to Japan on land when I smell the food there if feels more like home than me than I wanNA landed interest some weird. I got all sorts of Weird Shit going on in. Cranston was something that my mom's an amazing coach. My my mother's mom is an amazing cook. Mike Dad's side. Were a horrible cooks. And I've always jokes Taylor to grandma's you know a lot of what Korean food is always say from a Western perspective. Pretty gnarly like Kimchi. Smells LIKE BARRY? Pungent and the fact that it's popular now is crazy to me because it was the same foods that I was vilified for so my brother who emulated growing up was like. I don't want anything to do with this food. I'm never eating it and I wanted to follow that and I was like. Oh I also won't eat this food and I think there was probably a good three or four year stretch was like I'm not eating creative food either this crap when I crammed food. It was always at my house. I never would ever bring trained food to school but I do remember when kids would maybe come over and how much the next bay or if it came over on a Friday Monday. Everyone would say Dame's house smells like coup. That was flavor. Okay that's not what I would lean Kimchi too. I mean you can't argue. That doesn't have a specific smell but certainly the bullies are really interesting. Getting will they shit? The bet on that one so food I think had unfortunately a traumatic experience from particularly Korean food as as younger kids or what you did quite often what what can be empowering for people who've been the victim of abuses to at some point confront their abuser when they feel strong enough to do so and the fact that you rejected so much and then ultimately embrace it in such a profound in public way. I have to imagine. It's Cathartic on some level. One hundred percent you know. It's just like I'm working this out with my therapists in front of everybody and he had. Yeah so so I guess now it kind of makes sense because what was curious to me as you went to college went to trinity you studied religion again. God bless Ya but when you got out you end up Japan. What was your gateway to Japan other than Granddad? I was horrible student again and though like I couldn't get a job like everyone else. This is like the DOT COM GRAD. Ninety nine and I didn't WanNA answer. What the Fuck I was going to have to do so. I literally went to the career fair. I've made a right and it was a teaching English in Japan Corporation. And I said I want job here and two gave it to me and I didn't think really anything about it. So did you speak any Japanese and I didn't even have any care. I just needed to tell someone. What are you doing so I could tell? I didn't really think it was GONNA to go. You know what I mean like. This is just something I'm going to tell people I'm doing. It'll never come. Yeah and then it came and then I went and it was pretty hard the actual teaching of the English or just being in Japan all of that. It was a Jacksonville Florida but hotter and not nearly as Nice. If you can say such thing off well that really Entire list where I wanted to go was like Sapporo Tokyo Kyoto and they gave me my place. I would never have chosen. Which is a small village called Zuni? Dettori in my backyard was a rice patty. Wow well again probably awesome for five or six days. No nobody is awesome and I just I struggled and I think that was the onset of me. I've seen a psychiatrist since two thousand three that was like we can count like pretty much can point. That was the first real manic episode. I had where I was. I was like on cocaine. Like twenty four seven hunt with mania. Yeah Okay I lasted about four months and in that timeframe though there was one rahman shop there. I was too nervous to go there. Because that's where all the local villagers would eat congregate and I wasn't GonNa go in there and sure enough when I said I couldn't take it anymore and I wanted to but I couldn't get a transfer I'm just GonNa go in there and and I've eaten Rahman my entire life never an actual Ronin shop and I walked in. I saw all these hard boiled eggs in bowls and it was just like a great place because you can just eat a hardboiled egg. Put some salt on it in my drink a beer wait for your Rodman and it was like it was almost like a pop now. I ordered a Balram in. I only eat them once because I was so scared of going in there and it was one of those you know radically moments where I tasted this. I was like Holy Shit. This is so good and growing up loving instant Romanian. I didn't know that it was like a real thing. Yeah how how does it sound like such a dumb question but yeah? What's the most profound differences between what I've eaten and then what you had? They're the best way I can describe was having really bad frozen. Concentrate orange trees right in thinking. That's orange juice can try and then you get beautiful perfect fresh squeezed and you're like Oh shit. This is what worship says. Yeah I could look back at it the same way. And they're making the noodles there. I assume right at the restaurant or in the brothels milky twin quotes abroad so it was like almost five poor goodness and it was awesome. Twenty like you can only connect the dots later in life. Yeah in college. I wanted to drop out to go to cooking school. But my dad basically convinced me. Otherwise and I was never going to fit in the corporate world. No matter how hard I tried so like cooking with something bad I wanted to do but my dad worked his entire life effectively so I would never work in restaurants because he knew how hard life was even though I had an inkling to do it. It's not something I ever thought it was going to actually do so. Even at that time I was twenty two. I wasn't thinking that I'm GonNa make professional cooking like not it. I was GONNA come back and I was going to get a job in finance and working in food was the furthest thing from my mind when I got back to New York City but you end up at the French Culinary Institute. So how how did you end up? I got a job for about few months. Basically being a corporate desk over. I think it was pretty influenced by Office. Space the movie. John and I had existential dilemma in crisis at the age of twenty two. I was like this is what people do every day. You type of keyboard do some stupid shit and you make some phone calls you get yelled at and you got your desk and you go home. You're so tired and you pray to God. You don't have to go to work the next day. It's like this the horrible existence in college. I learned about this thing called negative. Which is what the early Catholic theologians would think about and meditate on to get closer to what God is because you can't know what God is because he's ineffable omniscient but if you say God's not this microphone God's Not Computer God's not this Cup of water if you did that all the time you get a little bit closer. That's a pretty easy logic that I would have liked to my life so I'm going to start to do all these things that I'm not supposed to do almost like George Costanza and it's going to give me a little bit closer to maybe what I WANNA do the for a year or so. I did all kinds of job everything that I thought I could try to do for like two or three days and then I quit and I was like you know what I think. Cooking is for me but I don't know I know that working in this desk is not for me to French. Colonies to and we're you immediately. Great in cooking school like are there prodigies. There are people that are more gifted at cooking another like any other field. I would say I've met a couple of people that are real geniuses in cooking. But they didn't go to cooking school. But for the most part you have to become great and some people have higher altitude being great and that might be how you move into kitchen your knife skills your precision and all of these things but for the most part when I started cooking. I was one of the students anyone's ever seen okay. I'm fucking spouse. I only know one way of getting anything done. And that's throwing everything I have to a problem. That doesn't always work so well with a partner right and truth be told my first partner level ones. So they're six levels in Brooklyn School. She refused to be my partner on level two. So she told the the chefs. If I have to be David Partner I'M GONNA quit school and they suddenly David's partner so she quit school rugby. My whole wow. That's a strong vote of. Yeah just to give you an idea of what what a mess. I was as a human like I really was just fucking mass. And so what was the turning point? You went to work for craft at some point in the middle of this. Yeah I mean that's another thing. I just started work for John. George Osborne cooking school and I just started pouring myself into the profession and I was like. I'm just GONNA do everything. I'm GonNa do everything I never used to do. I'm GonNa pour myself into this study and just became infatuated with all aspects of cooking and like a year later in the day off. 'cause I was answering phones at craft before it opened up on my two days off from working at Mercer Kitchen I was like this. Is The restaurant that I wanna be at and maybe I like this because it's not that I love it. I can't imagine doing anything else right now. I just poured myself into it and craft was like winning the Lotto for me because the team there was that Thompson assembled was like broiled class and they wouldn't even accept me as free labor. They were like you know what we don't need you. Thanks Brian very much. You you suck and You know we need a reservation so I was like you know what I just sense. The greatness there so I would do whatever I needed to do to get my feet indoor. If I have to answer phones I'll do that. I did that for few months while still finishing up cooking school until I could actually work for free. Yeah that's how it all happen. So many people took me under their wings and I learned so much there. Stay tuned for more armchair if you dare. We are supported by stitch. Fix wouldn't it be great if every clothing store you shopped at had your size I would love it the styles you like at the prices you want yes well. There's a company focused on making that happen in the world of clothes shopping. There are no consistent sizes. Why should we have to try to guess if a medium is really a medium or consistently have to return close purchase online to find something that fits perfectly stitch? Fix is a personal styling company. That MAKES GETTING THE CLOTHES. You love effortless. 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Sign up for your trial today at noon. That's an m dot com slash tax. What you have to lose visit NEUM DOT COM SLASH DAX to start your trial today. That's an OEM DOT com slash tax. When you're at craft and then you graduate cooking school and they start letting you cook in that kitchen. Is there anything that you recognize? Oh I do have a niche here. No it's not a niche. It is very much a rigid caste. You're the lowest person there and you have to work your way up till you get to the top and I saw very early on my role was I. GotTa do whatever they tell me to do. Right and what I learned though was it wasn't an aptitude. I wasn't naturally gifted at it. But what I saw about cooking. That was very appealing to me was man if if I do this every day I get better at it right well. The golfing was probably great training for this in a way because it very much yeah. Golf is such a baby steps baby. Step Bay just Mike. Rowe improvements over years. It taught me a lot because I'm pretty lazy person by nature but I get competitive as a motherfucker on. That's yeah that's helpful and Gulf turn me unfortunately into a total lunatic in terms of competitiveness. And that's how I viewed it was. Oh for me to get to this person's position I need to be better than this person. How am I going to get there? When I opened up in two thousand four. No one wanted to work with me. Not One person it gives you insight to how bad I was. What do you think the people would have if if you would have invited someone to be a part of it and they say I won't work with David for X Y and Z? Tell You 'cause I've asked them all my friends to. You're not that good okay. You are never been a sous chef you wanna make Romuald the fuck. You're talking about because you know after I cooked for craft like I came back and went to Japan because I felt like there was unfinished business and I wanted to work there and I learned a lot in Japan cooking. Living Japan was like a life changing experience. Because I learned a lot about myself because Japan's such an expensive country particularly food and I had like an piff Ni but I came to the realization that I could eat really well. They're cheaply and that. That was a weird thing because back in America in two thousand three. If you said you wanted to go to a nice restaurant food people think. You're like a snob right. Oh Yeah Yeah Yeah I would have been people calling someone snap. Yeah because you weren't wrong because you couldn't eat well there. The the whole idea of eating well was yet fast food to eat a nice meal. Meant like some fancy French restaurant that was just exclusive to anyone else other than White People. So it was really elitist. It wasn't democratized at all yet. No not not at all. So this is the weird thing that. I had the realization where I was cooking Japan. I was like wait. Everyone's actually eating. Well I most of my meals at convenience stores like the seven elevens their equivalent like some of the best food. I had weren't like convenience stores like sandwiches noodles. I have the stereotype of Japan and the Japanese work ethic and I guess also through their engineering and vehicle manufacturing which is the only field. I know a lot about. There's meticulousness to their work. Ethos that is evident in their product. So that what's happening with the food? Is there like an attention to detail and meticulous or is it? They're using real ingredients. That aren't process like we're using here. What was the distinguishing factor? That made it all so good. They just care more like. Have you been to Japan before? No I'm dying to go. It's one of the one of the only places Monica I want to. It's the greatest food culture in the world in my opinion and everything's good in. Everyone knows more about food than anyone else in their food culture. Just it goes back like a thousand plus years there restaurants that are like four hundred five hundred years old killed right so but like that all trickles down to everything in Japan is just a little bit better because they care more they just simply care more and like an egg salad sandwich. Would you ever buy an Egg Salad Sandwich at American seven eleven? I'd be terrified? I would imagine it had been made a week before minimally. Yeah well the logistics there in Japan is like the constantly being made somewhere and being shipped to these places. So it's very fresh and it's made with delicious ingredients. And IT'S AMAZING. The Egg Salad Sandwich at a lawson so that convenience store is one of my top five things will ever eat. I want to see now. You're talking our language bean stores. I could walk down the street and I could just buy like. Niko which steen stuffed dumpling of sorts. And it's like fifty cents and it's delicious and I was like wait foods. Amazing here in the cheap food. That's just as good as even the McDonalds is fucking unbelievable in. Ooh We need a rectangle. Sam We need chicken sandwich. Burger King over there. You know what if I go to Tokyo? Mcdonald's because I'm telling you that they say they still fry their fries in beef fat tallow so Donald News mcdonagh does McDonalds McDonalds now really quick so I read kitchen confidential. When did that book come out around two thousand and two thousand two thousand one? Yeah okay so I read that book and I was like. Oh Wow if I had not gone into comedy. That would have been my life. The kitchen life is a bunch of party animals sex crazed drug laden terrible hours. Everyone's fucking each other. I'm like I'm in. That's my kind of culture. Were you experiencing that at Kraft? Did you like that especially given the kind of Cross Your T.'s? Dot Your I's childhood was that chaos appealing so when I first got to craft what I love most was how serious everybody was. It was like you entered like a surgeon's room but the moment service ended. It was like going to a party right right. It was work hard. Play hard and also during service and this is why I've always deemed as like a healthy kitchen is when people are making fun of each other. I was like Oh this is perfect for me. It's like who could hurt. Someone's feelings the most like this is exactly where I need to be. And you're making really delicious food but like there's different kinds of kitchens and I was close with Tony and he wrote about kitchen culture. That was very real at that time but it didn't exist at certain levels in my opinion like the restaurant like kraft was only about food. I could've been naive but I never really saw anything because I was always just working on the food. Everyone was so fucking busy cooking that you couldn't do anything else and it was pretty hard core. There are a lot of crazy stories. I've seen a lot of crazy shit because kitchen. Culture thankfully has been updated. Where do you get the ball? Start Mama Fuko. I'm probably so long as well. No no no more Fu so again like following the footsteps of my brother. My brother Love's allman brothers. So I love the allman brothers. You know eat. A peach. Became like one of my favorite albums and when I was studying everything before I left for Japan like anything you know anything in became my hobby after the first trip to Japan and I I learned that the guy that create a cup of noodles was named Momofuku Ondo and I curse all the time and I was like this. Sounds like motherfucker? That's a great name and I'll use it if I ever restaurant called Momofuku Peach logo. After Japan I worked for Danielle Balloon and injure calmly NIETA upper east side. Institution called Cafe Balut. And you know at this time I was getting better but I didn't know what I WANNA do because at the time. Then if you wanted to have your own restaurant you had to get tapped by the chef so for example if I spent enough time with Daniel Balloon in one of his patrons decided hey. I want to open a restaurant in Boston. Do you have someone that I could hire? And that's how you get a job working. Yeah and I was happy and I was like probably if there was like sixteen cooks in my ranking I was like fifteen and I was. I'm never I'm never going to be better than everyone else around that time. I had my first manic experience on the depressive side. Yeah and things were going south of my family as well and then all in I was also working like fourteen. I don't know what fourteen sixteen hours time six days a week but it was like crazy amount of work and I just was like losing my mind and my mom's bed and cancers for twenty four years. My brother was in the midst of pursuing my dad and all this crazy shit was going on and my reality was like melting away and I was not in a good place so that was another reason why I had to leave and one of the reasons I started Momofuku was I reached a point. I was like fuck it. Who cares you know what I mean like using that sort of that equation of like what's the worst thing that can happen? Yeah right I might just Joe Myself Anyway. So who cares fight? Fuck this up. Who Cares can I ask what were the depths of that period? Did you end up having to quit the job? Were you unable to work? How destructive did that spell? You know. It's funny it's like throughout my life. I feel like I wanted to ask for help. And Even Times. I think I've asked it in college or even high school and high school was pretty traumatic for me to like there's a whole nother like. I went to the private school that produced the last two Supreme Court justices. Oh yeah you into short shorts town Pratt. Yeah got imagine your some of your classmates. Parents were like senators and Shit. So it wasn't a it wasn't a fun time for me so I I didn't really fit in and I am remembering highschool asking for help and people are like you're fine and then I never never asked my parents like. Hey I think I need to see therapists or psychiatrists like that doesn't exist in Asian American household right. Just don't do it. You know what the remedy is is. Stop crying suck. Yeah yeah toughen up yet I need help is is weakness right exactly. Yeah and the whole idea that you need someone to talk to or get medication on. That was just so foreign. That was never going to happen. So you know when I was twenty six. That's where I reached a point where I was like. Fuck it and did you self medicate. Oh my God yeah there we go. I mean man I was really good at it. E Yeah your baseline is feeling like a negative sex and drug even in its worst condition. Continue to to. You'RE GONNA pay that option in my experience. Yeah and because my industry also was like me even after college you go out every night I mean every night. I'm going to bed at four in the morning. Five sometimes sleeping in the locker room just to go to work in the morning. It's insane. I tried to block a lot of that out because it wasn't like that fun but a lot of drinking and I don't like to say that I had a drinking problem but yeah I definitely had a drinking problem. Sharp sharp while you're talking to someone with a drinking so it's okay you're in good company bad medicine for depression unfortunately ultimately find out really bad medicine and also smoking. Marijuana is really bad medicine at that time too. I knew things were not right just because I thought that we're going in my head ocean really bad place. It was just sad. You know I just was fucking sad. And they had no explanation for it so I knew I needed help and I remember a New York magazine at the time would always have these best of lists and I was like you know what fuck it i. I'm just going to call these people in. Try to find someone to help me out. And I think I saw one or two and they weren't right from me and then finally I found someone online. I started to see him and it was so expensive and health. I think at that time it only covered like three sessions per ever two months so it was really hard but that was the beginning that my life started to change and that was twenty six twenty six and I've seen them no. That's pretty profound one of the things that he specialized in childhood trauma. And I think that's what we've been working on all these years so there was therapy. There was the medication that I eventually got on and Opening up that restaurant was not something I thought about actually operating the goal of I just have to physically do something to get me out of this this Helen to have a purpose. Yeah yeah the day. We opened up. I was like oh I actually have to figure this shit out. Everything's against us. We're the underdog underdogs and we're going to just through sheer grit and determination. We're GONNA win. It gave me purpose to get out of bed. Isn't it the irony of asking for help being a form of weakness when you tally up the results of which are empowered you to be effective and productive and creative and not asking for help would've actually defeated all those things in you? The real weakness would have been to to not yes Florida's I. It's so ironic and I. I wonder if like my son will feel the same way. Should he ever have the need to ask for help? You don't like the way we grew up. What form media told you? That strength was asking for health. The vulnerability is year this first year. There would be sessions literally were. I wouldn't say a word because I was so embarrassed and I remember like having to come to terms with like. I can't tell anyone that I'm seeing a psychiatrist. I can't tell anyone that I'm on medication. And this is so embarrassing that I don't know what to do with myself and now here I am telling the world. This is what I did. So it's funny. How it all plays out I. That's the most money I've ever spent In my life is still on my psychiatrist for sure which is by the way the most valuable thing to invest in your mental health. This kind of dovetails into I mentioned the elitist thing which I have an issue with but then secondly I grew up in a blue collar area of outside of Detroit and you save money about a possession then you maintain the shit out of it. You treated it well and that's what you did in. You bought a house and maybe you got a boat at some point like these are. The notion of pain for experiences was a really foreign notion where I grew up. So you saved for objects and possessions that were assets and you could pass on and I dated a girl for nine years who worked in a restaurant. And she spent every dime she made at that restaurant at other restaurants. I was always a everyone. There did the same thing I was like. Oh you guys are making pretty good money. All things considered versus what I was making and they will just blow. I never saw people spend money like this on wine on food and as I've gotten older actually read some books about happiness Experiences are a better thing to invest in ultimately if you're just measuring it by what impact it has on your happiness and that ultimately possessions don't really give you much happiness so. I've come around to it for sure. But that had traditionally been my other reservation is like Oh you're just blowing this money. What's your relationship with that? As far as just making that something that you're going to invest in and indulge on and do you have to convince other people that that's a worthwhile endeavor in the industry. Hey I have a reservation at this restaurant. Let's go and even if you don't have the money you're gonNA find a way because like we're addicts were pleasure attics. We want that dopamine it somehow some way. Yeah and even. If you don't have the money I I've been that situation so many times like fuck it. Like Hey I remember like let's go to France and you know let's go to this restaurant. No one has the means to do it but we all find a way to make it happen. Yeah whether it's Max out your credit cards or whatever and you're just constantly in the state of paying off because you're pushing yourself at restaurants and it doesn't have to be the fancy fancy but it's like all your money goes back to eating and drinking. Yeah yeah it makes no sense whatsoever when you think it appears that younger generations have a much different relationship than than I did. They didn't have to fight it. They seem you know. There's all these articles being critical of them that they want avocado toast instead of a house. And I think there's truth to it but I don't know that they necessarily are wrong for prioritizing that but I would say Mama Fico is part of this revolution right but you got you kinda got disillusioned with the reservation fancy restaurant which led to you doing Mama Fuko but then ultimately then did create another Mama Fubo visit co- and that is a make a reservation online ten days in advance only seats twelve people. So how how did you go from? You know. This thing's broken? I'm going to do it this way too. Oh maybe there is a version of this. I WANNA do right. You know talking about Japan and eating well and not just eating well in Japan when I was able to travel throughout Asia. I'm eating amazing meal for like Fifty Cents. Shit like this is something that everyone wants to experience. And that was the next epiphany I was like. Oh fuck everybody wants to eat. Well it's just not accessible or it's expensive but it's not the case the only place where that's not the case as America and I was like it doesn't have to be that way and that's what Momofuku was was. There's gotta be different ways to eat food than eating at a fancy place on the upper east side as much as I love the food there in the restaurant I was like you know what there's gotta be something else. I thought this underground movement that had not been tapped into with food. Let's do noodles and let's try to apply the same sort of discipline and technical rigor that I've learned working at some of best restaurants and apply it to a twelve to fifteen dollars a bowl of soup. So could you leave having one of the best meals of your life affordably and that was really important to me and then now how? How did the reds version? So like we really ran. Momo like almost going out of business a variety of different ways you know so we didn't need a bar and then we did Samba which was starting off as a Burrito shop tree and Breda shop nothing we had ever planned on actually work the way it was intended to so I was so levered on banks and loans that I couldn't have this the original restaurant that was noodle bar that eventually moved up the street closed and we didn't have enough hot water there so the main reason why we did fine dining was we didn't have hot water. No she didn't give a shit about making fancy food. That was the furthest thing on my mind also. We had a situation here that if this restaurant closed by the health department we were. GonNa lose everything out of twenty seven seats a six hundred square feet. We're doing two hundred fifty people a day. It was like a real phenomenon. We literally did the math reverse engineering. So how many people can we serve with the water heater that we have and it turned out to be twenty four people so I don't want dining but like okay? What can we serve? That will justify the same numbers that we were doing for two hundred fifty people for twenty four people so we had to come up with fine dining menu. And that's how we did. Wow we didn't. We didn't do it. We the whole goal was stripping away the bullshit all the things you hate about finding Dax I hate to but people still should go out and celebrate and feel good in my metric was always if you have a teacher from Delaware that makes forty five thousand dollars a year and they happen to be a fan and they've been saving their money. I want them to come here feeling like they left in drop one hundred fifty bucks feeling like it was one of the best things I've ever spent money on the and it wasn't about trying to set a benchmark for people that could afford it. It was like how could we set an experience for people who had to save up money? That was worth it for them to save up. Yes yeah now. You're huge now and I see on TV. You have restaurants in Toronto in Sydney Australia as you. Just said Vegas Los Angeles at some point you transitioning into one of these Thomas Keller type. I know so little about this world but I'm aware of you as like food icon at a certain point and obviously it's gotten so big you must have brought in genius. People to help with this growth. Isn't that an incredibly hard thing than the APP? Navigate growth like that you know. Now we're blessed to have like some of the best and brightest people like I duNNo. I look at my office now and it's like everyone went to like an Ivy League school. They they wanna work here like what the fuck is going on you and all these folks are so good and they're just better than I am and that's that's what I always. I've just learned wait. You're better than this than I am. So you should do it. I just found. That's been my sort of management style is hire people that are smarter than me and just put them in positions to succeed. Yeah you're genius. Obviously is the creativity. Now this is the funny thing is I think my upbringing has done such a good job of me being sort of self denunciation of anything. I'm good at and I swear to God. This is exactly some of the times and hours. I spend with my shrink. It's like have a hard time figuring. What the Fuck I'm actually good at well especially because the people. We talked to interview regularly. A pretty common thread through. All of us is like this sense of being fraudulent one hundred percent. I think we all feel like well. Wait I'm not Anthony Bourdain. I'm not so and so so somehow a fraud because I'm not those guys but somebody wants to be David Chang and feels fraudulent about trying to be us. It's been really weird and I've been a bad boss in so many ways and I just tried so hard to like be better a lot of. That's been through therapy and I've had a historically bad temper and I swear to God. I'd say ninety percent of my time with my shrink. Why am I so fucking angry and I can actually tell everyone exactly why certain things now and it's crazy to me. I can unfold. This is how my emotions at this point. This is how I reacted to that. Because I've done so much analysis but for the most part when I think about whatever's happening Momo who I feel lucky as faulk into if it is something I tend to think that I may be good at I live in a world of sports analogies. It's like I'm that player that can't shoot or rebound or whatever but they're plus minus rating is always very high And the team wins. And somehow that's sort of how it plays out with me. Are you technically bipolar. Yeah so I would have to imagine as the thing is spinning up and it's getting hugely successful. I have to imagine that's a very dicey area for someone like you is. That did you have fits of highs during all that expansion. Well you know. The interesting thing was being medicated. And seeing my shrink on a regular basis. I think my highs were like not as high in my lows. Worn is low. The self medication is really. What fucked me up the most right. Right right yeah. It wasn't just a fraudulent or feeling like imposter syndrome. I felt like it was survivor's guilt. Then like it shouldn't happen to me. She happened this person over here because they're so much better than me. Like why the fuck is this happening to me. Yeah and in order to have that release. I would just drink my face off at night. You know yeah so you have ugly delicious right. I see that every time I opened up net flicks. You have breakfast lunch and dinner. Which Associates Gazon Kate Mckinnon? You have to be friends with Z's right he's like Foodie and the Ark by the way I think he's great for your industry in that I watch master none and I'm like Oh yeah it's cool to be super into what Taco you're gonNA eat in the middle of the afternoon to have that as like a mission of like no every single time I eat. I want to try to make it the single best thing I could consume in this moment where I'm at geographically is I I like it. I think it's cool you know. It's funny like weirdly. I got to know pretty deeply the world of New York City comedy. I think it started when we opened up the first restaurant. John Mullany in Nick. Kroll would go. Do they're sort of a routine at refusers? I think that was the name so they were just starting out. I was just starting out and I knew crawl from mutual friends and they would come over and we lament how careers were and from there like comedians just kept on coming in pro introduced me to a z's when these was still at nyu I'll know. Shit Yeah and like two thousand six so I. I got to know these people before anyone knew any any. Yeah right really weird. It's been fun to grow up together in so many different ways right. Yeah stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by masterclass. We Love masterclass. We've had some guests on that. Have hosted masterclasses now masterclass? Let you learn from the best with exclusive access to online classes taught by masters of their craft. You could learn the art of negotiation from Chris. Voss who we had on who we left writable you can improve your skills from Christina. Aguilera Mike do that. You're just saying that you want to learn to sing better. Yeah or learn the art of magic from our all my spend the rest of my weekend on masterclass should curtail just for your interest with over seventy five different instructors across tons of categories. Literally something for everyone. Now I again I go back to Chris. Voss the art of negotiation I just loved that masterclass I found it so fascinating. I highly recommend you check out. Masterclass get unlimited access to every masterclass and as armchair expert listener. You can get fifteen percent off the annual all access pass go to master class DOT COM SLASH. Dax that's masterclass dot com slash DAX for fifteen percent off masterclass. We are supported by better help. Now Gang it's a little rough out there right now so if you're struggling with stress anxiety isolation depression right now you are not alone now and if you're feeling isolated and worried about the state of things better help offers online licensed professional counselors. Who can help? I could not recommend this morning. What would it hurt to try? It only helps. It could only help now. Better help counselors specialize in issues such as depression stress anxiety relationship sleeping trauma anger family conflict. Lgbt matters grief self esteem more. I've got nine of the ten of those things just say I absolutely love the service so helpful particularly now where people are stuck inside. It's a great way to talk with a counselor and get working on some of the things that are ailing you all. You GotTa do you simply fill out a questionnaire to assess your needs and get matched with a counselor in less than twenty four hours. It's so easy to schedule the secure video phone sessions with the therapist. Plus you can exchange unlimited messages. Better help is a truly affordable option and armchairs. Get ten percent off their first month with discount. Kodak's so why not get started today? Go to better help dot com slash. Dax that is better help. H. E. L. P. dot com slash. Stacks talk to a therapist online and get help now ugly delicious. What season are you in We're onto we filmed breakfast lunch and dinner as sort of a b side to ugly delicious because filming delicious is so fucking heart because our travel and stuff or oh my God. I think it was sixty days to travel for me. Oh my God. You're not just for that just like trying to assemble these. Massive topics into some cohesive. Fifty Minute Docu. Series thing was tough and We wanted to do something fun and also a little bit quicker. So that's why Netflix and Morgan novel. Who won an Oscar for twenty feet from stardom in the Mr Rogers? Doc My partner and ugly delicious was like let's just try to do like a one day shoot and it actually proved to be fucking harder than anyone thought to sure. Sure because I found out a lot of these actors are like they're not acting twenty twelve hours a day. They do your thing for an hour and then you go back to your trailer right. Oh Yeah five months effort twelve hours. I'm acting forty two minutes of that. Twelve hours sane lines in front of a camera. Yeah and they're eating and it's just a lot. It's a pretty taxing thing. I will say the easiest one for sure was the one with Rogan. Where we're just so. I was so high that helps. He would only do it if I smoke the joint every hour off but that was the second season. And we're working on this show with Hulu so I'm doing a bunch of shows for Hulu right now and we're filming with Chrissy Teigen a TV show that had to stop production because of this epidemic. So that was that was like a crazy thing. Yeah could you say which side of all this you liked the mouse or you like it all or you hate it all. I don't know I don't think when I do media. It feels like work. I mean it does but it's not working in kitchens that right to me. What work is and it's so fucking hard and managing the restaurants is so hard but somehow I always again i. I always like an to an addiction. Ninety nine percent of it. I think sucks in restaurants one percent. That's what you're chasing. After all the time it'll keep him back. Yes in in in the media and I don't feel the highs so much it just feels like a pretty steady thing and I like it because it's been able to like give me a bigger platform and I want to be able to be responsible with that platform but I feel guilty. Weirdly to say that I like it. You know I mean yeah because it's not something. I know a lot of other chefs. Have that opportunity and I feel like a a wimp in some ways but I also like it because it allows me to keep my brain engaged in other ways and continue to grow but I will say you know as someone who really enjoys you and I think you're great at it. I think you're great at the media side. I think people were so confused by Anthony Bourdain. Because it appeared that he had the exact life we all fantasize about which is like perpetually on vacation going out and having great food drinking with people and having fun and I think obviously from his book at least we know he had addiction. I never met the guy personally but clearly some significant depression issues and I think it's relevant for someone like you for someone like me to go. Okay yeah. The grass looks green over there. I'm doing this. This is good. But man always haven't scheduled self-healing time self check in time all that being accountable to people. I sure hope. That's a part of your program and plan you know I'm trying I'm trying really hard and I know it's a problem when people like the first thing people say is. Hey Dave are you taking care of yourself when ten people tell me that in a month? I'm like Oh Shit. I think I'm I'm I'm really in it right now and you know. Tony. Tony passing was brutal for me because in so many ways he was a mentor. Like an older brother figure to me and When he died I think what was so hard for me was I was like that. Shit was supposed to happen to me. Not Tony Rights. And he's the Mick Jagger of your world that guy's supposed to be impervious something like that and we know we started talking about him asking for help and that that being a sign of strength and for good period of time. I was really mad at myself because I felt selfish. And whenever I would see Tony I think when I first got to know Tony really well we were just hanging and eat and drink and have an amazing time and and then I think it got a little bit less of hang because you realize like oh check I got I got to be like a. I gotta be like a respectable adult for him and help him out. I think that where I felt bad was he had to be so strong for everyone else that I don't know if anyone gave in return to him and I felt really guilty. 'cause I I wish I had said. Hey Tony like you're always helping me. What can I do for you? Yeah I don't know if that would have made a difference but I know a lot of people felt the same way because he was constantly giving to people. Yeah I think that these kinds of Alpha's it's really hard to imagine that they need someone to take care of them as well. Yeah there are so many occasions where I could have just had that simple conversation but as you know is someone who's wrestled with all of it. There's no real magic words right. It's got to be the person asking for help and becoming open to all suggestions and yeah. I think I was intoxicated. Just like everyone else's Tony's a even though there might have signs or things and you're just like she's gone through all this he's got he's got it. You know you know my good friend. Dave chose set the best and they had a very different relationship than anyone else because chose an addict in a variety different ways. He's like Tony just jumped from heroin to work never went to Rehab. He just cold Turkey. Heroin and Tony of severe addictive personality that was tempered over the years but It's scary for me for myself for two people that I care about that. Also have addictive personalities and. It's something that I never thought I'd talk about as much as I do. I'm so glad you do because again yours. Somebody's Tony it is incumbent. Upon you you own all of the vulnerabilities and the you know the struggles in and helps people not feel alone in. There's seen someone successful who still actively vulnerable and actively asking for help helps a road. This notion that you can succeed your way into feeling good but she. You can't do it absolutely and I don't know if I'd ever be this open about it if he didn't pass uh-huh because IRA really Russell is like well. If there's anything can be learned means that like it's stupid to bottle it all up and not tell anybody and I hate myself in a variety of ways and I always hate myself in a variety of ways. But if there's one thing that I can feel good about if it's just one person then then it's worth it but is it easy when you talk about all this stuff because I'm a for fifteen years so it's gotten easier you know. I go share my shit in front of strangers in whatever city. I'm working in and so I I it certainly I got used to it. You know. We'll do the first time I said I was molested. I had been sitting on that for fourteen years and I don't think I told someone again for another five and then someone again in a year and now I'll tell anyone really doesn't have the weight it used to but I'll tell you if I'm being honest it's a lot easier for me to talk about the things I've gone through as opposed things. I'm currently going through. That's still very challenging for me to go like oh no. I'm still fight being a scumbag hourly. That's like my DNA. It's gotten easier but I still do. There's there's potholes all over. Just walk out your front door. Yes so that's something I could get better at aspire to be better at that. The real time vulnerability the real time struggle. You know something. That's crazy that I did recently two months ago because I've been trying to like get the right medication for me. Yeah there was a couple of years where I decided to go off medication and I can look back and be like holy fucking Shit like I was so fucking out of my mind and thankfully I got back on it and it's always been hard to sort of get me to a place where everything's working right. Yeah I feel so sympathetic to everyone that deals with what you do because even if you find that magic recipe right your body then evolves. It's an ongoing right. There's no magic combination and like the way I've always described it feels like I can just get enough oxygen if I'm in the water right like I'm not drowning per se but it feels like I could at any moment after years of seeing my doctor like only recently. Did I found out like I'm bipolar? When I say three or four years ago because I'd ask them like what am I. Why would you want to know this David? I'm like Fox. Just tell me what I wanNA fuck it now. Yeah and weirdly like two three months ago because we've been trying to tweak my medication to get it better. He's like hey there's this. Dna sequence intest. That's offered right now and it just does your twenty two chromosomes that is most widely associated with your mental health and does a couple that sequences your liver to see how you process medicine and this is specifically just to get you on the best medicine for yourself. Yea and I sat on that for a long. But I just wasn't ready to do it because I felt like this was Gatica Shit and I was like I don't know these are moral dilemmas. And which opened up this. Pandora's box sounds like fuck. I don't know film in the show. Last year was hard when I say I lost my mind. I lost my fucking mind in Cambodia. He was just scrape place to lose it because in so many ways I felt bad I was like you know what this is. This is what Tony should be doing. What the fuck am I doing and and I was just getting ready to have our first son and I was just in a weird place and I was like shit like I needed to make sure that. Don't go down this road so we were like really trying to figure out the best medication for me and I changed a bunch of things and it just didn't work out and I fought like fucking. I'm just going to say yes. I'm going to do this and I got the results back. And it blew my fucking mind really. Yeah I was like oh it explained so much. It was a weird thing to be able to connect the DOTS and You know what was most interesting to me was like it almost immediately. I was like if this becomes popular. This is going to stigmatize mental illness immediately because he was saying. I'M GONNA candidate for Ketamine. There's something in my DNA that says I'm academy and Responder and haven't called the doctor yet because I'm GonNa be legally alantic. Ketamine dripped into me. Part of me is like yes. This is fucking amazing. This scary but he was saying they have a spray. Where if you're feeling bad Or you know you're going to go down episode. You can actually inhaling your nose and you're immediately going to feel better and I was like this is fucking crazy so effectively. It's an EPI pen for your emotions. I was like wait if you're a diabetic you know. No one's GonNa make fun of you because you're you don't produce insulin because we've accepted that as a society you know. Hey need to take medicine. We get that and I think that this may be a game changer. In how people can accept the fact that people's brain functions in their also we're starting to they're starting isolate some gut bacteria that is really common in different forms of depression. I mean yeah. It's all opening up. I think we're going to have such better options as we go forward and it's an exciting time. Actually I mean does he just got imagine yourself in eighteen hundreds dealing with all this stuff. I'm pretty pretty sure I would not be alive without I I don't think I would have made it either. Well David I hope everyone checks. You have a podcast. Can you tell me the name of your? It's a the Dave Chang show. It's on the ringer podcast. Network with Bill Simmons. And you know now that I have time I'm increasing frequency because I think we have the ability to tell stories for chefs. That are going through this real tragedy right now. The whole idea of like too small to fail as sort of this Hashtag Israel because if the economy almost class in two thousand eight because of these giant institutions. It's GonNa be the same thing if we don't help independent businesses. It's been a brutal three weeks or so talking to my friends that have basically lost. Everything potentially yeah. I been weirdly really busy talking to people from the government side actually trying to give them some insight as to what might need to happen to help out everybody. Yeah oh well that's great man. I'm glad that you're involved with all that. So check out your podcast ugly delicious and then treat yourself if you see them go sign anywhere will good luck getting a table but you see it when this is all over go inside. We've had a dozen amazing meals around the country at your restaurant. So thanks so much for doing this with us. Thanks appreciate it. Yeah thanks we. WanNa come eat with you and we're in New York. I will really love that. That'd be great. Well thanks a ton man. Thank you okay. And now my favorite part of the show the fact check with my soul mate and Monica pad men. We don't normal setup. Let's just say that right in this quarantine life of ours. We don't ever normal set up at the attic where we can really find tune. Everyone's levels in their headphones cam. And now it's just kind of one size fits all right. You gotTa hear whatever volume. I'm hearing what's curious as we also are using headphones splitter so it is conceivable that you're getting more output than I am. Oh do you want to switch? Which is see if it sounds the same to us. Okay yeah it sounds the same. Sounds the same baider-meinhof who knows I had? I've had a lot of better. Meinhof experiences lately. Yeah I forget what they are but I've said it a lot. I noticed you three times in the last four days and I always makes me smile every single time you say I love it. It's really the only thing I've retained from. These fact checks is remind. The only fact I've remembered is the definition of baider-meinhof which is frequency illusion. If you hear something or see something then you start seeing our hearing examples you get a red BMW three series and you don't feel like you see those at all but the second you buy that car everywhere you go you notice. There's millions of them. You're not unique at all. They're everywhere. Everyone has a red three series. I don't know that I'd say that's the classic example but an example in relate to buying a car and then noticing that Asahara now everywhere. Yes before is invisible to you. That's the one I remembered was Attribution error. I love that one. That wants some me up so much. Remember that when we learned that from here what was that one that is when someone cuts you off in traffic and you attribute their behavior attribution to a characteristic of them are a character flaw right so that person's a selfish that person's impatient as opposed to making a a summation of them contemptuously. That there was some situation that caused their behavior. Either they had to swerve to miss a dog or they were rushing to get a kidney to the hospital right. You don't know which it is. Yeah I'm really prone to just say people are pieces shit and make a real big character assessment. I don't think I do that very much. Yeah you seem to be in the middle. Meet me in the middle. Well I mean yeah. Maybe I'm in the Middle Truth. Be told I'm just not thinking about that person very much so it's not like I'm even like I just get annoyed for three for one second three and one half second. Yeah and then. I don't think like well. Maybe they're going to have to talk myself out of like a duck off a waters asshole. You just let it roll right off acid analogy and I am. That's the I think the goal forget trying to figure out. Yeah they're going. Who Cares? Yes yes that. That's the dream. I just don't need to be worried about what that person's doing. I can. Just be annoyed for one second and then move on. That's the dream that's the rim what is interesting is sometimes people. Are you know? There's some extenuating circumstances caused their behavior. But I'd seen more often than not. I'm right so much impatient FRIK. Kirsten would always think it's somebody's going to save a life in route to a burning building and I'm like everyone's a monster. I think percentage wise. I'm more often right. Okay I think in some ways you're right. I think people are acting like assholes. I don't think they're on their way to whatever but it's probably because they had a bad day or something's happening with them is causing this. It's not just that they're a bad person right right. Yeah yeah that's true that's true. I'm both things so so quite often. Having children makes semi impossible to get out of the house. So I'm often late or I'm trying to make up now. You could go well then. Just keep backing up when you start the process which is great. That's legit but boy. You know you gotta feed them and this and that and the packing and the tantrums in the Melt Bounds. Wardrobe changes all of it. Leaves me probably on the highways going somewhere later than we should? Yeah and I'm entitled trick so both things are happening. If I cut you off in traffic both people are gonNA be right situational and it was an entitled Prick but just because you had a hard time getting out the door in your late doesn't mean you have to cut people off. You can still just say sorry. When you get to the place you got and not make more carnage on your way well. Yes Oh here's another thing. I think of quite often is 'cause I both do it and I'm the victim or recipient of which is I drive fast. I like to fuck and drive fast. Joy It yes on for me like it and I. I never understood why anyone is getting maximum. Not inconveniencing them. If I'm in the left lane I go by going ten miles an hour faster near going. It no sweat off your back. There's nothing happening to you yet. Occasionally people will flipping off Hong or do whatever they do and I'm just happily with a smile on my face driving to work quickly. There's no aggression on my and there's no anger. There's no malice yet. I'll be on the highway and for whatever reason I'm not in the mood to go fast. I'm just listening to a podcast and influence and someone will blow me and my first thought. My Brussel is like God. That guy's aggressive. You might be there. Smiling listen to Christopher Cross sailing there might be no rush into it but it's funny because it's the exact same behavior but when I do it it's peaceful and loving and you just like to drive fast but when someone else. They're aggressive and impatient and all these things. Yeah but it's also that people driving insanely fast. It makes other people scared. So it's it's fair to be like this person's driving too fast because if even if if you were driving next year driving super fast and I got an accident with you and if it was my fault even like the chances at one of us are dead is way higher. Well I don't think so to be honest with you. I don't think the difference between crashing at sixty five and eighty is a big difference. Just percentage wise if you hit. Oh let's say this if you hit a wall anything over forty five your debts or fifty five or something. There's a point where the damage is the damage now at skin. Accordion quicker something. But I don't think there's a big difference between crashing into a Wallet eighty-five and crash into all sixty five. I think you're a goner. Maybe I don't know I really don't know I'm going to do some experiments. I'm going to crash into a wall sixty-five and say how I feel. We're GONNA crush eighty-five. Yuck this is an episode. That is very mental health. Heavy talk a lot about mental health which I love And he was so open and vulnerable about his struggles. Yeah it's hard. It's hard to be happy it. Isn't it always begs the question? Why why is mental health pandemic level? That's what was the first question when the DSM SAM was created and they started being able to administer the standardized tests to millions of Americans. That conclusion was either. This test is too sensitive. And it's labeling too many people with mental health issues or there's a pandemic of mental health. I'm inclined to think it's the lack of mental health. You mean I'm inclined to think it's the latter that there is pandemic levels of depression and different issues. Yeah I think it's very very common so common definitely and then you start. You have to ask yourself why it was this. The mental state of Human Beings one hundred thousand years ago. I can't imagine I was thinking about this the other day watching an animal show and I was thinking. There's no way an animal is designed and has evolved to live in mental anguish. There's just there's no upside to and then I just started thinking. It has to be a result of like this weird life. We have that were that. Were not designed to have yeah. I think it's a result of life getting too big Which also leads to higher levels of thinking which is great and has a ton of positives but also comes with some lows. So I think it's one of those like you can't have the good with the bad yet. It's almost it's like one of the issues has to simply. Just be the amount information you have access to. So fifty thousand years ago you'd being tribe and you'd probably be aware of one or two other neighboring tribes and that'd be your full extent of the knowledge of the world so you want me finding out that there's some earthquake in Haiti and then a pandemic in China then the stock market crash in Germany. Like just all these epic problems. Yeah that SPAN THE GLOBE. That are all in your head. None of that stuff would have been in your head. Also like probably a sense of powerlessness. We have an anxiety. Because when you're in that group of one hundred members of you could actually enact a change you could control your whole world. Yeah and then the mix of crazy fast pace mixed with totally sedentary lifestyle as far as not being physically active sitting and everywhere you go. There's a lot and what's interesting is there's no going back clearly. We're not going back to the Stone Age. So then you have to be pragmatic about okay. Well then his we're GONNA have to get these medicines better and better and better so that they can augment what whatever things being displaced in her head. Something must correct for that. Yeah and is that the future where we're going to have to be medicated. In a way that makes our our environment jive with our reptilian wiring well and just more awareness probably more research about the brain and the chemicals and what releases dopamine. I've been there. I mean they're already is so much research but I'm sure that's going to continue and maybe there are things we don't know that can unlock some of that stuff. Naturally just like exercise now. We know there might be other things we don't know yet. I'm just a little pessimistic. When the solution is like a behavioral adjustment when applied to the seven billion people like like everyone can take a pill in the morning. Look at it in terms of like surgeries are Gen- I mean. They vary all over the body but like back surgeries. They're like fifty percents successful on average. It's such a low percentage yet. People refuse to do physical therapy and they know physical therapy like ninety. Plus percent of the time fixes a problem whereas the surgery only half the time fixed in that particular case in. So I'm just always so pessimistic about if there's a behavioral solution to all of it. Well people adapt it. It's kind of interesting that your pessimistic about it because you are a part of a group that has made a lot of behavioral change. Yeah and unfortunately. The success rate of that program is at its best estimation like thirty percent. Yeah so you know way. More people try it and don't achieve sobriety than try and achieve sobriety but alas there's no better solution so even the lower percentage one is still the best solution. That's true I don't know well it depends. I guess it depends on the person but we also more knowledge. It's like this this podcast. Talking about these things makes people feel not alone in that helps and so when we have people on talk about. This is what I'm doing and this helps me then. I think it encourages other people to make those changes to I. Also think like kind of like you say that in order to make a change your hair us to be on fire. You really have to be in trouble. I do think that's true. I think a lot of people once they hit like real low low they do start thinking. Okay what I'll I hope they do. This are thinking. What can I do to call this a bit? I mean even been on the lower end of the happiness spectrum for a bit and a few days ago I was like I gotta figure this out and I remember years ago when I had a ton of anxiety and panic I was doing stuff to get out of it like I was meditating and I was really good about exercising and I was seeing my therapist regularly and then I climbed out of it and I didn't need to do those things as stringently as I was and now I feel like okay. GotTa get back in those routines because those helped. I think it's like once you feel the benefits. You can tap back in a little. You sure I totally agree. I will also point out though. You're also someone who's not a procrastinator by nature so like thing for you. It took like three days of misery before you're like okay. I got to do something. And you're someone that doesn't push it off now. You just like extend that to someone who is a huge procrastinator and didn't do their homework which is a big section of the world and I just get a little pessimistic. I mean I do think I should have been more proactive a month ago. So it wasn't like it was three days. It was a buildup of three days of really low to get there. But I mean. I don't know. I believe that people can help themselves. I believe a lot of people can help themselves. Also hopefully all of this thought in conversation and research continues to go further upstream. I mean you like to hope that a good percentage of this is is childhood related and I feel like we could improve the childhoods. Yeah that's a lot of pressure on parents. Oh it is. I don't think parents I think there needs to be more systems in place to help children. Yeah you know I think like Child Care became something that we subsidize offered and then it had to have a lot of like emotional components to the training like you know if we actually invested in put some effort into giving little kids tools and yeah you like to think it would be a lot easier down. Downriver I agree okay a couple things. He said. Japan Colonized Korea in the early nineteen hundreds nineteen. Ten Korea was annexed by the empire of Japan after years of war intimidation and political machinations. The country would be considered a part of Japan nineteen forty-five in order to establish control over. Its new protector at the Empire of Japan waged an all out war on Korean culture. Which is when he was saying. Mine's grandfather's like basically Japanese right. Yeah talk about like generational trauma like that gets passed down this idea that what you are is not good enough and they're trying to be something else that really yes. Yeah okay so I just wanted to be clear because you guys you guys were talking about craft a lot. I just don't know if people know that you're talking about craft at the restaurant. Crafts C. R. A. F. T. That's Tom Kalicki owes restaurant. He's a big sheff. He's he's on top chef. Oh and it's a huge fancy big restaurant but because it's food related. I didn't know people were going to think. It was kraft Mac and cheese K. R. A. F. T. Karameh granollers worked out. Yeah what a great company delicious cheese best macaroni and cheese and the big one hundred years running. However long it's been invented and I think the fact that my grandma had worked there it gave me an extra amount of pride in the Broadway and it tasted even better. Imagine that's no way that it tastes better. It tastes so good. I mean what a product we really believed in it like General Motors. Oh It's me one but anyway that's not the crap that was alluded to unfortunately yes and really. That was those. Were the only facts. 'cause it was more stories and emotions emotional exploration so lovely rare on experts episode. Yeah that's very true. Should we talk a little bit about? I'm too hot to handle you got into it last night. Yeah well I I yes. We watched one together menu and then we separated and then you have been watching and then I was watching and it's a good show. Let me say why. I think it's a good show. Okay we'll tell the premise. Tell the premise. I guess it's ten five hot chicks and five hot guys go to a island. Presumably IT TURNS OUT IT WAS MEXICO. I looked it up but at any rate they. They're on a beach in their in house. And and they kind of think the premises your everyday reality show. They're all going to date and hook up and stuff and then they find. They can't kiss or Fox or do they masturbate. I don't know how they're whatever monitoring so it gives you everything you want. You want Gawk right. You want to be judgmental in dislike. Some people like some people not all happen. G Get that you get a big tasty serving that but then slowly start seeing like these younger males. I hope that this is just a signal of what younger people are like now. I hope it's indicative of young people at large because these boys on this show were or are supportive of each other. There's such good communicators. They hug each other. They like challenge each other to be vulnerable and I was just like. Oh my God him soon encouraged by this show. I'm only five in. I know spoilers because everyone's watching it I think it's top rated. I believe that there's this crazy gender reversal thing happening in this show. Where like the guys are having all these deep talks with one another and they're also approaching the girls and like talking about their feelings and it's so the opposite of what you're used to seeing are used to seeing the girls being quote needy and talking about their feelings and competitive with each other but that's sort of happening with the guys like there's two guys that were one guy was mad at another guy because he was creeping on his girl but it wasn't like he was fighting he was hurt he was hurt and he was just being kind of quiet and Aloof. And then the other guy came up and was like what's going on to me. I was like Oh my God. That is so what we're used to seeing women do. Yeah so it is like a shock to watch it in this gender of our so I love it I love it and you know what's interesting is. I hadn't thought of this while I was watching it. But I'm thinking of it while you were explaining it. Which is this is not a this is one of the worst aspects of men is that they often establish their their status rank based on their physical prowess so kells is enormous just so much bigger than everybody. There's something to that that there's something about the harmony of the men in the show because the the strata is so clear physically and that is one tiny little advantage. We do have men. Sometimes it's so cancerous but I think in nist specific case. You're not seeing a ton of jockeying for WHO Alpha is. It's kind of just very plainly obvious to the is. I think the girls are more curious. Or there's more anxiety about who's who who's Alpha Beta Gamma I think they're scrambling more for the ranking whereas the guys it seems to have already been sorted Alec Ones goof-ball ones the big toughest motherfucker. They're all attractive so I think that's part of it is like they're all baseline very attractive. That's the point of the show So their sex addicts too. I mean I I'm calling it that but they all do nothing but have sex and are used to that the allfamous. You're you're right. It's like how big you are but it's also about how many women you can get in everyone. There is sort of on the same playing field with that. Yeah I'm just saying there's a harmony in this house and I think part of it is to do with the Alpha Alpha is so clear. There's one guy that's so much bigger and stronger than everyone. Just because he's bigger and stronger. I would never label him as the Alpha Alex. Seeing this whole thing with the leader of the group means does not seem like the leader. I agree that he doesn't seem like the leader of the group. Yeah I think I'm talking about something and if you haven't felt it you can't understand it. Maybe like that guy can kick everyone's ass in there's something about that being very clear that can add harmony really quickly to group of guys but when there's four guys that think they're that guy. I think there's just a lot of trouble coming. Maybe yeah I don't i. I can't relate to any of that I don't know really stupid. It's pretty stupid making the case that it's the right way to be. Yeah just observation of mine. Anyway it's it's a good show. It's worth watching. It's good really good. All right love you love you

Japan David Chang David golf America New York City South Korea Virginia Florida DAX shepard Monica California White People Bozeman Asia Chang North Korea Church Netflix Momofuku Restaurant Group Mama Fuko
David Chang

Armchair Expert with Dax Shepard

1:38:31 hr | 7 months ago

David Chang

"Welcome welcome welcome to armchair expert. I'm DAX shepard joined by modest mouse. Oh Monster Mouse ooh monster mouse. How're YOU DOING MONSTER MOUSE? Good in my apartment again. Love it here. Yeah when I arrive in. The door was cracked to grant me entry entry. There was a smell. Wafting out into the foyer and it was the most delightful inviting smell. You burn a lot of Nice candles in here thank you. I mean that could have gone either way could have been well. Oranges spoilt sure things. I'm glad it was the candle. Is there a specific sent rivers edge Woodsy earthy actually was Hack Nuclear Holiday Winter Candle? Okay well you would never know. Never well today. We have a really fun guest. David Chang David. Chang is an American restaurant tour and author and television personality. He is the founder of the Momofuku Restaurant Group restaurants in New York Washington. Dc Las Vegas Angeles Sydney in Toronto. We've eaten at several. These of always been delighted he also has the TV show on Netflix. Ugly Delicious Breakfast lunch and dinner in the mind of chef very much enjoyed talking to David and I really really appreciated his honesty and You know he's an industry that's being hit the hardest right now so I appreciate his time side now. You may hear a few audio issues at the beginning of this but we sorted it out pretty early into the interview so hopefully that will clear up quickly. There was some mechanical technology difficulties. This is the time we're living in and we're learning and growing so if you think the audience a little dicey I hang in there it gets fantastic and I hope you enjoy David. Chang guys are you. I'm good hanging in there. Are you held up in New York? No we're staying right outside at a friend's house because in Korean culture the the one year birthdays like a really big thing in March. I A lot of family in town small over the place and they're all stuck so I couldn't keep them all at my apartment and I asked one of my friends who has several rooms in a house that was himself was like. I need a crash at your place for the foreseeable future. There's a ton of people right now. It's been a traumatic three weeks or four. I don't even know how long it's been anymore. I would imagine for you. It's gotTa Be Twenty Times more stressful because of all the different industries. That are getting hit the hardest. The restaurant industry is just in a shambles. Yeah yes it's one of the most exposed businesses right now and. I'm trying to be optimistic but I WANNA know what the Florida's and I don't know anyone that hasn't laid off a ton of employees in my industry and that's you know honestly like I don't care about restaurants right now you know. People find a way to feed themselves in a variety of ways and thank God. They're still restaurants that are open to take win delivery. The biggest concern. I have is for all the employees that were undocumented or documented. They don't have a job right now. So that's not nice to think about well and especially your setup primarily in New York right so the majority of your employees are all living in a city that is. Let's say it's not too cheap to live there. You can't really just kind of float along for a while and that sort of the discrepancy. In the recently passed stimulus bill is expenses New Yorker very different than for employees and say Las Vegas Toronto or California and it's been a whirlwind. We have a really good team and we're trying our best and that's the hardest thing I know that we have people on our teams that are like. Hey you need to do a better job and I don't disagree but we're doing our best in a situation where no one could have been prepared. I can't imagine they taught this class at culinary school. So it's like when you have to weather a three month shutdown due to a pandemic make sure you do X Y. And Z the. I think it's GonNa be Navy a little bit longer than three months to and that's all my friends and I in the industry peers are trying to sort out is what does it look like when you do reopen up so it's very murky now. Is Your wife Korean? She is or she likes similarly first generation. Like you yes. She's I jan. Her parents were born in Korea. And they're with us right now and I am one of the few people I feel like that absolutely adores the in laws. And how how old's your baby? If you hear him yelling stares he's just turned thirteen months. Spent mazing to be able to like give bath every night and I try my best even before this all happen to make food. You know practice lunch and dinner but that's really the only good thing that's happening Spending time with them and getting to see him almost walk. That's where he's at right now and I would say there's like another week before it's GonNa really take his first steps. That's the best thing if I was working. I definitely be missing it or I'd be watching on video or facetime so I wouldn't change that for anything because it's been a total joy to see him develop for us and I don't know a ton about you but I have to imagine you've been sprinting. Now for I don't know ten twelve years. Yeah no actually. I opened up. Who in August of two thousand four? And that was just me you know at the time like no one really wanted to work with me and now we have over fifteen hundred of we used to have over fifteen hundred and four years. Wow yes so I have to imagine just every step along. The way has been really time. Consuming energy consuming. It has been nonstop and honestly I didn't know what to do until I you know maybe a month before our son was born. I was just freaking out because I did not stop like I work my ass off. I`Ma Addict to work might have an addictive personality. To begin with and work is though only sorta socially acceptable addiction. I'm a big time addicts work. Yeah first and foremost mom and dad are from Korean debts from North Korea. Yeah moms from South Korea. Both my parents were born in. What is now? North Korea My mom came from a very well to do family. Where a lot of like I would say. Intellectuals lived in my grandfather who work in the government guests in effect. You sort of attorney general at the time and my Dad's side basically came from nothing and he was born on what is now the border of China and Korea and they lifted the war. They lost everything. And it's a whole horrible story ended up itself. Yes so how? Did they meet? This is like literally the story that I've been told they were at a picnic with some friends from my dad's older sister and my dad saw my mom peeling an apple with a knife. He's like wow. She peels it so well. I Have Z. Criteria I don't know how much I believe that hold us. That's in when Harry met Sally or sleepless in Seattle. I forget which one sleepless in Seattle. There's an apple peeling with a knife scene into someone fall in. Love is resolved it has to do with the love. Of course now dying to watch your mom peel and I have to imagine it's borderline Rodham. She's really good at it. So what what age were they when they came to the US so my dad came to America in one thousand nine hundred sixty three and he moved to New York I think it was pretty traumatic for him and his wind up washing dishes. And you know living what you believe as Real immigrant experience just getting any kind of our job and making your way through that I think he was here for like three or four years and then he came back to create and that's what he meant by mom and then they came back making sixty eight or sixty nine and My Dad was working in restaurants on the more of a front of house level and then And then my sister was born. I seventy nineteen seventy but at some point they end up owning restaurants and even a golf store is accurate. Yeah my dad basically a hustler. I there's giant sections of my dad's history that will never be known. That's exciting. Yeah I have no idea like how he wind up in New York and I guess he worked in restaurants going all the way down to the mid Atlantic wound up in Washington. Dc how he wound up owning a restaurant is crazy to me and there's crazier stories like somehow. I think for a year or two he lived in some small town in Kentucky and again having a Korean Dad is is not always easy to get any information out of well now historically in La. There is a path for Korean immigrants. Which is that you know. There's a huge community. They often on a community level. Raise money and loan money to new immigrants to start? Small businesses. Was any of that happening for him. Out there yeah. That's how he actually got into the Gulf business and he wound up getting out of the restaurant business and I don't know how she had some foresight into Gulf. And that's basically what I did for five to two like fourteen or so just playing every day but around that time he got in the Gulf business. And they're probably I'M GONNA say twelve to fourteen tree and men that divide it up the Washington. Dc AREA ONO SHIA MARYLAND DC IN NORTHERN VIRGINIA. And at the time they divided it all up. But I think they'll pull their money. The people that had the most money obviously took the best locations in that area the wealthiest occasions my dad being the poorest at the time was given Route seven in Leesburg. Virginia Tyson's corner and that's before Tyson's corner became one of the biggest shopping malls in America. So she was like given the worst worst location and wound up being the best location. Ono's yet yeah. Yeah was called. Tyson's Washington Gulf Center and it was in a dilapidated warehouse. But you can't call something center if you've only got like four hundred square feet right. It was it was big and it's sort of like you know such a long time ago recollections of basically looking like Costco just like golf clubs and balls everywhere just stocked on the floor and you know my dad's whole thing was spend no money on how things look sure sure. Did you work there as a kid? Yes I did so I have a lot of class warfare stuff and I'm going to get into that with you. When it comes to fine. Dining I was a real reluctant adopter. Ka Fine dining because it just screams rich people and I feel less than in judged when I'm in a fine dining place so I wanna get into that later but then also kind of does that to me so if I had to pick the last group of people I'd WanNa be interfacing with on a regular. It'd be like rich dudes looking to golf on the weekend. I was too young but I don't remember where we were too. There wasn't like old money coming to us. Okay it was just so barebones that I feel like people that went to buy something there. We're going there because it was like discount. Okay right right wasn't it wasn't like Caddyshack Not Mike. Not at all but if my dad any similarities. It's a little bit like Rodney Dangerfield. But yeah it was working the cash register me breaking down boxes and then when. I got old enough now to re drip repair golf clubs and I did that. When I wasn't practicing playing golf like my dad was pretty ahead of his time in regards like now. It's like a joke. If you're creating American that you want your son or daughter be like golf star and When I was playing golf there were no other Asian people on the golf course. Well Yeah I was thinking 'cause I'm four years older than you and I was thinking like. Oh His dad was following the tiger woods playbook but now there is no tiger woods. Play book at that Point Right. I mean I actually knew about tiger pretty early on just from playing competitor goals. You know that was a sobering thing when you're when you're like eleven twelve years old and you think you're really good and you learn you're never going to beat this person. I think most people in the to or felt that way for about a decade. What kind what are we looking at handicap for you at your peak depending on? Don't bullshit me David probably around scratch. Yeah Oh my my Monica. Does that mean anything that is? You just spoke to completely different language. I've no idea what he's scratch means. On average you're hitting par on every hole like say it's a first three than a portfolio than a part three par. You're getting at the end of the round. You're not above or below. Which is that's very very rare rare rare but I didn't know what was going on because I was so young when I was playing and You know my whole world surrounded in center on Gulf or religion what religion Presbyterian and you know. I basically burned out once. I just didn't have that mental game to play competitor golf so that was pretty hard. Yeah also did you experience. All that like very stereotypical first generation Asian parents type of pressure. Oh yeah it would be seen as abuse of parenting today for sure but walk me through a day in the life of a teenage first generation. Korean I just always remember some kind of punishment right and it wasn't always like physical. I don't know you know what like I talked to my brothers about it. We're always in a state of fear that we're not doing a good enough job when you to work harder and are just remember. My Dad always saying like hustle. You have the Hustle Hustle and a lot of that was manifested in the golf course when I say about playing golf like most of my memories are on a golf course because I would say hundred fifty days. A year for ten years was playing goal. 'cause I was one of a bunch of tournaments when I was younger so the expectations for new or maybe a little bit higher and I mean I saw pretty early on. There was a different standard of how you know the kids. I was friends with that. We're all like white kids from you know. Let's say upper middle class families where being traded in Gulf wasn't the center of their life they had other hobbies. Whatever War I just? I didn't have that option. So did your parents care about academics or were they just pushing the golf thing. One hundred percent fills definitely the Gulf thing but the weird thing how create immigration happen? I think is similar to a lot of immigrants that came here. They're SORTA two classes for KRENZ. You know a lot of people that again. If it wasn't golf was in church and a lot of people at Church that were considered like. I won't say the well to do they. They were on these because they were doctors. Or engineers academics. And then you have everyone else. That was a data owner or dry cleaner owned several level. Or something like that so it was a very like weird to caste system in some ways super similar to the Indian Migration Story. Yeah Yeah and so like my dad was like always do better in school but I think he saw pretty early on that. I had no aptitude so my sister was the real bookworm strenuous student. It didn't mean that he wasn't demanding of like getting the best grades. But I you know I talked about in the book that got pushback publishing because of this Kobe. Nineteen like took a long time for me to process it but I was so scared of my dad that I couldn't really achieve in academics. Because I was so scared of a punishment your values just run running rampant psych myself out and I never did well at school ever. You grew up in what what would be a DC suburb basically. Yeah a Virginia. It's weird though because I spent a lot of time in Virginia like proper because I think the south doesn't really start until you get the Richmond. Right Yeah and my dad had a business there and I play a lot of tournaments down there so I would probably go to Richmond every weekend. That's honestly was like instrumental in my life. Because I got to see what American food actually really was now. How much is being Asian by? I can't imagine you're one of a thousand in your town. Probably or the northern Virginia wind up having a lot of Koreans. And that's why the church is so important in so many Korean American immigrants because there's a huge population Chicago Atlanta has one obviously California. You mentioned but the Korean population in the DC Virginia area is pretty huge. Okay but like I just never fitted with cream. People and I did a fit into our traditional whites. You Monica could have a real long off. Did you want to be white? Monica wanted to be white but one hundred percent with my brother. My older brother all the time. It's like my older brother's name is young. Mom and dad gave you David. You should sit back and just the whole thing from how. My brother doesn't eat a lot of Korean food. Because of the scarring just being made fun. Oh that's a unfortunately a brutal way to grow up. Oh yeah I resented everything being Korean and you know. The funny thing is by being honest about this now Monica. I wonder if you feel the same way by saying how much didn't WanNa be creamed back then. Yeah today twenty. Twenty there will be Asians that like fuck you Dave Chang. How can you say that I was like? I'm not saying that now. Then I felt like I didn't WanNa be created yet but people aren't listening to that. I totally agree and I talked. We talked about it all the time on this podcast and we have another podcast since a relationship. One that I talk so much about these early experiences and trying to distance myself from my ethnicity so much and yet there's a lot of backlash it seems that comes back but I almost think it's it's fear based I think when I hear people responding like because how can you argue with someone's emotional ride. You can't and it was different than indefinitely way different for you. I mean slowly gotten better for people of different ethnicities. I think but it's just hard. It's just hard to be different. Yeah it made it feel like whatever I didn't fit in like magnified like ten axe but I ate too. You know the customs that we had and the names and the whole nine it was just like oh how am I ever GonNa fit in here because it's not even all these other secondary tertiary things? It's how I look is why never gonNA fit it. I'll add as well even the black community. You couldn't be more marginalized but at least in the black community. You have all kinds of different celebrities you can point to Farrah aspirational people who've achieved success in comedy. You know dramatic actor. Stars of TV shows sports. Heroes for both of you. There's there's really no one in the popular. Zeitgeist is that is crushing. Has the Korean ordinary Indian? That you go. Well it'll be fine. I could turn out to be Eddie Murphy. Yeah you you just have white people the point to so you think you have to be close to that is you can get in order to have any sort of success. That's why you know parasite winning the sweeping. The ostrich was such a monumental moment for Korean people at least in America because they're like Holy Shit. We have someone that we can root for. That's actually Korean. Yeah so your brother didn't like Korean food which I get you. Were not in that same position as you liked the food. It was interesting because I ate really well like my grandfather's side on my mom's side. They were well to do and he was basically Japanese in the early nineteen hundreds Japan Colonized Korea. You know there. There's a lot of old wounds that maybe never will be healed. From Korea's perspective increase basically been the doorstop for Asia for China and Japan. Away like he was raised so they took a lot of the well-to-do and smart Korean men and women and basically taught them in Japan so they basically brainwash them to be their proxies in Korea. Just slowly like simulate Japanese culture back and he didn't like Korean food. My grandfather food each happenings foods so when I get to Japan on a land when I smell the food there if feels more like home than me than I wanNA landed interest some weird. I got all sorts of Weird Shit going on in. Cranston was something that my mom's an amazing coach. My my mother's mom is an amazing cook. Mike Dad's side were a horrible cooks. And I've always joked Taylor to grandma's you know a lot of what Korean food is always say from a Western perspective. Pretty gnarly like Kimchi. Smells LIKE BARRY? Pungent and the fact that it's popular now is crazy to me because it was the same foods that I was vilified for so my brother emulated growing up was like I don't want anything to do with this food. I'm never eating it and I wanted to follow that and I was like. Oh I also won't eat this food and I think there was probably a good three or four year stretch was like I'm not eating creative food either this crap. When I ate Cranford it was always at my house. I never would ever bring trained food to school but I do remember when kids would maybe come over and how much the next bay or if it came over on a Friday Monday. Everyone would say dame's house smells like coup. That was flavor okay. That's not what I would lean. Kimchi too I mean. You can't argue. That doesn't have a specific smell but certainly the bullies are really interesting. Getting will they shit? The bet on that one so food I think had unfortunately a traumatic experience from particularly Korean food as as younger kids or what you did quite often what what can be empowering for people who've been the victim of abuses to at some point confront their abuser when they feel strong enough to do so and the fact that you rejected so much and then ultimately embrace it in such profound in public way. I have to imagine it's Cathartic on some level one hundred percent. You know it's like I'm working this out with my therapists in front of everybody and he had. Yeah so so I guess now it kind of makes sense because what was curious to me. Is You went to college? Went to Trinity. You studied religion again. God bless Ya but when you got out you end up Japan. What was your gateway to Japan other than Granddad? I was horrible student again and though like I couldn't get a job like everyone else. This is like the DOT COM GRAD. Ninety nine and I didn't WanNA answer. What the Fuck I was going to have to do so. I literally went to the career fair. I've made a right and it was a teaching English in Japan Corporation. And I said I want job here and two gave it to me and I didn't think really anything about it. So did you speak any Japanese and I didn't even have any care. I just needed to tell someone. What are you doing so I could tell? I didn't really think it was going to go. You know what I mean like. This is just something I'm going to tell people I'm doing. It'll never come. Yeah and then it came and then I went and it was pretty hard the actual teaching of the English or just being in Japan all of that. It was a Jacksonville Florida but hotter and not nearly as Nice if you can say such as well that really Entire list where I wanted to go was like Sapporo Tokyo Kyoto and they gave me my place. I would never have chosen. Which is a small village called Zuni? Dettori in my backyard was a rice patty. Wow well again probably awesome for five or six days. No nobody is awesome and I just I struggled and I think that was the onset of. I've seen a psychiatrist since two thousand three that was like we can count like pretty much can point. That was the first real manic episode. I had where I was. I was like on cocaine. Like twenty four seven hunt with mania. Yeah Okay I lasted about four months and in that timeframe though there was one rahman shop there. I was too nervous to go there. Because that's where all the local villagers would eat congregate and I wasn't GonNa go in there and sure enough when I said I couldn't take it anymore and I wanted to but I couldn't get a transfer I'm just GonNa go in there and and I've eaten Rahman my entire life never an actual Ronin shop and I walked in. I saw all these hard boiled eggs in bowls and it was just like a great place because you can just eat a hardboiled egg. Put some salt on it in my drink a beer wait for your Rodman and it was like it was almost like a pop now. I ordered a Balram in. I only eat them once because I was so scared of going in there and it was one of those you know radically moments where I tasted this. I was like Holy Shit. This is so good and growing up loving instant Romanian. I didn't know that it was like a real thing. How how does it sound like such a dumb question but yeah? What's the most profound differences between what I've eaten and then what you had? They're the best way I can describe was having really bad frozen. Concentrate orange trees right in thinking. That's orange juice can try and then you get beautiful perfect fresh squeezed in like Oh shit. This is what worship says. Yeah I could look back at it the same way. And they're making the noodles there. I assume right at the restaurant or in the brothels milky twin quotes abroad so it was like almost five poor goodness and it was awesome. Twenty like you can only connect the dots later in life. Yeah in college. I wanted to drop out to go to cooking school. But my dad basically convinced me. Otherwise and I was never going to fit in the corporate world. No matter how hard I tried so like cooking with something bad I wanted to do but my dad worked his entire life effectively so I would never work in restaurants because he knew how hard life was even though I had an inkling to do it. It's not something I ever thought it was going to actually do so. Even at that time I was twenty two. I wasn't thinking that I'm GonNa make professional cooking like not it. I was GONNA come back and I was going to get a job in finance and working in food was the furthest thing from my mind when I got back to New York City but you end up at the French Culinary Institute. So how how did you end up? I got a job for about few months. Basically being a corporate desk over. I think it was pretty influenced by Office. Space the movie. John and I had existential dilemma in crisis at the age of twenty two. I was like this is what people do every day type of keyboard do some stupid shit and you make some phone calls. You get yelled at you at your desk and you go home. You're so tired and you pray to God. You don't have to go to work the next day. It's like this the horrible existence in college. I learned about this thing called negative. Which is what the early Catholic theologians would think about and meditate on to get closer to what God is. You can't know what God is because he's ineffable omniscient but if you say God's not this microphone God's Not Computer God's not this Cup of water if you did that all the time you get a little bit closer. That's a pretty easy logic that I would have liked to my life so I'm going to start to do all these things that I'm not supposed to do almost like George Costanza and it's going to give me a little bit closer to maybe what I WANNA do the for a year or so. I get all kinds of job everything that I thought I could try to do for like two or three days and then I quit and I was like you know what I think. Cooking is for me but I don't know I know that working in this desk is not for me to French colonies to and we're you immediately. Great in cooking school like are there prodigies. There are people that are more gifted at cooking and others like any other field. I would say I've met a couple of people that are real geniuses in cooking. But they didn't go to cooking school. But for the most part you have to become great and some people have higher altitude being great and that might be how you move into kitchen your knife skills your precision and all of these things but for the most part when I started cooking. I was one of the students anyone's ever seen okay. I'M GONNA fucking spouse. I only know one way of getting anything done. And that's throwing everything I have to a problem. That doesn't always work so well with a partner right and truth be told my first partner level ones so they're six levels in Brooklyn School. She refused to be my partner on level two. So she told the the chefs. If I have to be David Perner. I'M GONNA quit school and they suddenly David's partner so she quit school rugby. My whole wow. That's a strong vote of. Yeah just to give you an idea of what what a mess. I was as a human like I really was just fucking mass. And so what was the turning point? You went to work for craft at some point in the middle of this. Yeah I mean that's another thing I just started. I worked for John George Osborne cooking school and I just started pouring myself into the profession and I was like. I'm just GONNA do everything. I'm GonNa do everything I never used to do. I'm GonNa pour myself into this study and just became infatuated with all aspects of cooking and like a year later in the day off. 'cause I was answering phones at craft before it opened up on my two days off from working at Mercer Kitchen I was like this. Is The restaurant that I wanna be at and maybe I like this because it's not that I love it. I can't imagine doing anything else right now. I just poured myself into it and craft was like winning the Lotto for me because the team there was that Thompson assembled was like broiled class and they wouldn't even accept me as free labor. They were like you know what we don't need you. Thanks Brian very much. You you suck and You know we need a reservation so I was like you know what I just sense. The greatness there so I will do whatever I needed to do to get my feet indoor. If I have to answer phones I'll do that. I did that for few months while still finishing up cooking school until I could actually work for free. Yeah that's how it all happened. So many people took me under their wings and I learned so much there. Stay tuned for more armchair if you dare. We are supported by stitch. Fix wouldn't it be great if every clothing store you shopped at had your size I would love it the styles you like at the prices you want yes well. There's a company focused on making that happen in the world of clothes shopping. There are no consistent sizes. Why should we have to try to guess if a medium is really a medium or consistently have to return close purchase online to find something that fits perfectly stitch? Fix is a personal styling company. That MAKES GETTING THE CLOTHES. You love effortless. It's a completely different way to shop. 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Sign up for your trial today at noon. That's an m dot com slash tax. What you have to lose visit NEUM DOT COM SLASH DAX to start your trial today. That's an OEM DOT com slash tax. When you're at craft and then you graduate cooking school and they start letting you cook in that kitchen. Is there anything that you recognize? Oh I do have a knee sheer. No it's not a niche. It is very much a rigid caste. You're the lowest person there and you have to work your way up till you get to the top and I saw very early on my role was I. GotTa do whatever they tell me to do. Right and what I learned though was it wasn't an aptitude. I wasn't naturally gifted at it. But what I saw about cooking. That was very appealing to me was man if if I do this every day I get better at it right well. The golfing was probably great training for this in a way because it very much yeah. Golf is such a baby steps baby. Step Bay just Mike. Rowe improvements over years. It taught me a lot because I'm pretty lazy person by nature but I get competitive as a motherfucker on. That's yeah that's helpful and Gulf turn me unfortunately into a total lunatic in terms of competitiveness. And that's how I viewed it was. Oh for me to get to this person's position I need to be better than this person column. I going to get there when I opened up in two thousand four. No one wanted to work with me. Not One person it gives you insight to how bad I was. What do you think the people would have if if you would have invited someone to be a part of it and they say I won't work with David for X Y and Z? I can tell you 'cause I've asked them all my friends to. You're not that good. Okay you are never been a sous chef you wanna make Romuald the fuck. You're talking about because you know after I cooked for craft like I came back and went to Japan because I felt like there was unfinished business and I wanted to work there and I learned a lot in Japan cooking. Living Japan was like a life changing experience. Because I learned a lot about myself because Japan's such an expensive country particularly food and I had like on saying tiffany but I came to the realization that I could eat really well. They're cheaply and that. That was a weird thing because back in America in two thousand three. If you said you wanted to go to a nice restaurant food people think. You're like a snob right. Oh Yeah Yeah Yeah I would have been people calling someone snap. Yeah because you weren't wrong because you couldn't eat well there. The the whole idea of eating well was yet fast food to eat a nice meal. Meant like some fancy French restaurant that was just exclusive to anyone else other than White People. So it was really elitist. It wasn't democratized at all yet. No not not at all. So this is the weird thing that. I had the realization where I was cooking Japan. I was like wait. Everyone's actually eating. Well I most of my meals at convenience stores like the seven elevens their equivalent like some of the best food. I had weren't like convenience stores like sandwiches noodles. I have the stereotype of Japan and the Japanese work ethic and I guess also through their engineering and vehicle manufacturing which is the only field. I know a lot about. There's meticulousness to their work. Ethos that is evident in their product. So that what's happening with the food? Is there like an attention to detail and meticulousness or is it? They're using real ingredients. That aren't process like we're using here. What was the distinguishing factor? That made it all so good. They just care more like. Have you been to Japan before? No I'm dying to go. It's one of the one of the only places Monica I want to. It's the greatest food culture in the world in my opinion and everything's good in. Everyone knows more about food than anyone else in their food culture. Just it goes back like a thousand plus years there restaurants that are like four hundred five hundred years old killed right so but like that all trickles down to everything in Japan is just a little bit better because they care more they just simply care more and like an egg salad sandwich. Would you ever buy an egg salad sandwich? American seven eleven. I'd be terrified. I would imagine it had been made a week before minimally. Yeah well the logistics there in Japan is like the constantly being made somewhere and being shipped to these places. So it's very fresh and it's made with delicious ingredients. And IT'S AMAZING. The Egg Salad Sandwich at a lawson so that convenience store is one of my top five things will ever eat. I want to see now. You're talking our language bean stores. I could walk down the street and I could just buy like. Niko which steen stuffed dumpling of sorts. And it's like fifty cents and it's delicious and I was like wait foods. Amazing here in the cheap food. That's just as good as even the McDonalds is fucking unbelievable in. Ooh We need a rectangle. Sam We need chicken sandwich. Burger King over there. You know what if I go to Tokyo? Mcdonald's because I'm telling you that they say they still fry their fries in beef fat tallow so Donald News mcdonagh does McDonalds McDonalds now really quick so I read kitchen confidential. When did that book come out around two thousand and two thousand two thousand one? Yeah okay so I read that book and I was like. Oh Wow if I had not gone into comedy. That would have been my life. The kitchen life is a bunch of party animals sex crazed drug laden terrible hours. Everyone's fucking each other. I'm like I'm in. That's my kind of culture. Were you experiencing that at Kraft? Did you like that especially given the kind of Cross Your T.'s? Dot Your I's childhood was that chaos appealing so when I first got to craft what I love most was how serious everybody was. It was like you entered like a surgeon's room but the moment service ended. It was like going to a party right right. It was work hard. Play hard and also during service and this is why I've always deemed as like a healthy kitchen is when people are making fun of each other. I was like Oh this is perfect for me. It's like who could hurt. Someone's feelings the most like this is exactly where I need to be. And you're making really delicious food but like there's different kinds of kitchens and I was close with Tony and he wrote about kitchen culture. That was very real at that time but it didn't exist at certain levels in my opinion like the restaurant like kraft was only about food. I could've been naive but I never really saw anything because I was always just working on the food. Everyone was so fucking busy cooking that you couldn't do anything else and it was pretty hardcore. There are a lot of crazy stories. I've seen a lot of crazy shit because kitchen. Culture thankfully has been updated. Where do you get the ball? Start Mama Fuko. I'm probably so long as well. No no no more Fu so again like following the footsteps of my brother. My brother Love's allman brothers. So I love the allman brothers. You know eat. A peach. Became like one of my favorite albums and when I was studying everything before I left for Japan. Like anything you know. Anything in became a hobby after the first trip to Japan and I I learned that the guy that create a cup of noodles was named Momofuku Ondo and I curse all the time and I was like this. Sounds like motherfucker? That's a great name and I'll use it if I ever restaurant called Momofuku logo. After Japan I worked for Danielle Balloon and injure calmly Nieta Upper East side institution called Cafe Balut. And you know at this time I was getting better but I didn't know what I WANNA do because at the time. Then if you wanted to have your own restaurant you had to get tapped by the chef so for example if I spent enough time with Daniel Glued in one of his patrons decided hey. I want to open a restaurant in Boston. Do you have someone that I could hire? And that's how you get a job working. Yeah and I was and I was like probably if there was like sixteen cooks in my ranking I was like fifteen. I'm never I'm never going to be better than everyone else. Around that time. I had my first manic experience on the depressive side. Yeah and things were going south of my family as well and then all in I was also working like fourteen. I don't know what fourteen sixteen hours time six days a week but it was like crazy amount of work and I just was like losing my mind and my mom's bed and cancers for twenty four years. My brother was in the midst of pursuing my dad and all this crazy shit was going on and my reality was like melting away and I was not in a good place so that was another reason why I had to leave and one of the reasons I started Momofuku was I reached a point. I was like fuck it. Who cares you know what I mean like using that sort of that equation of like what's the worst thing that can happen? Yeah right I might just Joe Myself Anyway. So who cares fight? Fuck this up. Who Cares can I ask what were the depths of that period? Did you end up having to quit the job? Were you unable to work? How destructive did that spell? You know. It's funny it's like throughout my life. I feel like I wanted to ask for help. And Even Times. I think I've asked it in college or even high school and high school was pretty traumatic for me to like there's a whole nother like. I went to the private school that produced the last two Supreme Court justices. Oh yeah you into short shorts town Pratt. Yeah got imagine your some of your classmates. Parents were like senators and Shit. So it wasn't a it wasn't a fun time for me so I I didn't really fit in and I am remembering highschool asking for help and people are like you're fine and then I never never asked my parents like. Hey I think I need to see therapists or psychiatrists like that doesn't exist in Asian American household right. Just don't do it. You know what the remedy is is. Stop crying suck. Yeah yeah toughen up yet I need help is is weakness right exactly. Yeah and the whole idea that you need someone to talk to or get medication on. That was just so foreign. That was never going to happen. So you know when I was twenty six. That's where I reached a point where I was like. Fuck it and did you self medicate. Oh my God yeah there we go. I mean man I was really good at it. E Yeah your baseline is feeling like a negative sex and drug even in its worst condition. Continue to to. You'RE GONNA pay that option in my experience. Yeah and because my industry also was like me even after college you go out every night I mean every night. I'm going to bed at four in the morning. Five sometimes sleeping in the locker room just to go to work in the morning. It's insane. I tried to block a lot of that out because it wasn't like that fun but a lot of drinking and I don't like to say that I had a drinking problem but yeah I definitely had a drinking problem. Sharp sharp while you're talking to someone with a drinking so it's okay you're in good company bad medicine for depression unfortunately ultimately find out really bad medicine and also smoking. Marijuana is really bad medicine at that time too. I knew things were not right just because I thought that we're going in my head ocean really bad place. It was just sad. You know I just was fucking sad. And they had no explanation for it so I knew I needed help and I remember a New York magazine at the time would always have the best of lists and I was like you know what fuck it i. I'm just going to call these people and try to find someone to help me out and I think I saw one or two and they weren't right from me and then finally I found someone online. I started to see him and it was so expensive and health. I think at that time it only covered like three sessions per ever two months. So it's really hard but that was the beginning that my life started to change and that was twenty six twenty six and I've seen them no shit. That's pretty profound one of the things that he specialized in childhood trauma. And I think that's what we've been working on all these years so there was therapy. There was the medication that I eventually got on and opening up. That restaurant was not something I thought about actually operating the goal of I just have to physically do something to get me out of this this Helen to have a purpose. Yeah yeah the day. We opened up. I was like oh I actually have to figure this shit out. Everything's against us. We're the underdog underdogs and we're going to just through sheer grit and determination. We're GONNA win. It gave me purpose to get out of bed. Isn't it the irony of asking for help being a form of weakness when you tally up the results of which are empowered you to be effective and productive and creative and not asking for help would've actually defeated all those things in you? The real weakness would have been to to not yes Florida's I. It's so ironic and I. I wonder if like my son will feel the same way. Should he ever have the need to ask for help? You don't like the way we grew up. What form media told you? That strength was asking for health. The vulnerability is year this first year. There would be sessions literally were. I wouldn't say a word because I was so embarrassed and I remember like having to come to terms with like. I can't tell anyone that I'm seeing a psychiatrist. I can't tell anyone that I'm on medication. And this is so embarrassing that I don't know what to do with myself and now here I am telling the world. This is what I did. So it's funny. How it all plays out I. That's the most money I've ever spent In my life is still on my psychiatrist for sure which is by the way the most valuable thing to invest in your mental health. This kind of dovetails into I mentioned the elitist thing which I have an issue with but then secondly I grew up in a blue collar area of outside of Detroit and you save money about a possession then you maintain the shit out of it. You treated it well and that's what you did in. You bought a house and maybe you got a boat at some point like these are. The notion of pain for experiences was a really foreign notion where I grew up. So you saved for objects and possessions that were assets and you could pass on and I dated a girl for nine years who worked in a restaurant. And she spent every dime she made at that restaurant at other restaurants. I was always a everyone. There did the same thing I was like. Oh you guys are making pretty good money. All things considered versus what I was making and they will just blow. I never saw people spend money like this on wine on food and as I've gotten older actually read some books about happiness Experiences are a better thing to invest in ultimately if you're just measuring it by what impact it has on your happiness and that ultimately possessions don't really give you much happiness so. I've come around to it for sure. But that had traditionally been my other reservation is like Oh you're just blowing this money. What's your relationship with that? As far as just making that something that you're going to invest in and indulge on and do you have to convince other people that that's a worthwhile endeavor in the industry. Hey I have a reservation at this restaurant. Let's go and even if you don't have the money you're gonNA find a way because like we're addicts were pleasure attics. We want that dopamine it somehow some way. Yeah and even. If you don't have the money I I've been that situation so many times like fuck it. Like Hey I remember like let's go to France and you know let's go to this restaurant like no one has the means to do it but we all find a way to make it happen. Yeah whether it's Max out your credit cards or whatever and you're just constantly in the state of paying off because you're pushing yourself at restaurants and it doesn't have to be the fancy fancy but it's like all your money goes back to eating and drinking. Yeah yeah it makes no sense whatsoever when you think it appears that younger generations have a much different relationship than than I did. They didn't have to fight it. They seem you know. There's all these articles being critical of them that they want avocado toast instead of a house. And I think there's truth to it but I don't know that they necessarily are wrong for prioritizing that but I would say Mama Fico is part of this revolution right but you got you kinda got disillusioned with the reservation fancy restaurant which led to you doing Mama Fuko but then ultimately then did create another Mama Fubo visit co- and that is a make a reservation online ten days in advance only seats twelve people. So how how did you go from? You know. This thing's broken? I'm going to do it this way too. Oh maybe there's a version of this. I WANNA do right. You know talking about Japan and eating well not just eating well in Japan when I was able to travel throughout Asia. I'm eating amazing meal for like Fifty Cents. Shit like this is something that everyone wants experience. And that was the next epiphany I was like. Oh fuck everybody wants to eat. Well it's just not accessible or it's expensive but it's not the case the only place where that's not the case as America and I was like it doesn't have to be that way and that's what Momofuku was was. There's gotta be different ways to eat food than eating at a fancy place on the upper east side as much as I love the food there in the restaurant I was like you know what there's gotta be something else. I thought this underground movement that had not been tapped into with food. Let's do noodles and let's try to apply the same sort of discipline and technical rigor that I've learned working at some of best restaurants and apply it to a twelve to fifteen dollars a bowl of soup. So could you leave having one of the best meals of your life affordably and that was really important to me and then now how? How did the reds version? So like we really ran. Momo like almost going out of business a variety of different ways you know so we didn't need a bar and then we did Samba which was starting off as a Burrito shop tree and Breda shop nothing we had ever planned on actually work the way it was intended to so I was so levered on banks and loans that I couldn't have this the original restaurant that was noodle bar that eventually moved up the street closed and we didn't have enough hot water there so the main reason why we did fine dining was we didn't have hot water. No she didn't give a shit about making fancy food. That was the furthest thing on my mind also. We had a situation here that if this restaurant closed by the health department we were. GonNa lose everything out of twenty seven seats a six hundred square feet. We're doing two hundred fifty people a day. It was like a real phenomenon. We literally did the math reverse engineering. So how many people can we serve with the water heater that we have and it turned out to be twenty four people so I don't want dining but like okay? What can we serve? That will justify the same numbers that we were doing for two hundred fifty people for twenty four people so we had to come up with fine dining menu. And that's how we did. Wow we didn't. We didn't do it. We the whole goal was stripping away the bullshit all the things you hate about finding Dax I hate to but people still should go out and celebrate and feel good in my metric was always if you have a teacher from Delaware that makes forty five thousand dollars a year and they happen to be a fan and they've been saving their money. I want them to come here feeling like they left. Drop one hundred fifty bucks feeling like it was one of the best things I've ever spent money on the and it wasn't about trying to set a benchmark for people that could afford it. It was like how could we set an experience for people who had to save up money? That was worth it for them to save up. Yes yeah now. You're huge now and I see on TV. You have restaurants in Toronto in Sydney Australia. As you just said Vegas Los Angeles at some point you transitioning into one of these Thomas Keller type. I know so little about this world but I'm aware of you as like food icon at a certain point and obviously it's gotten so big. You must have brought in genius people to help with this growth. Isn't that an incredibly hard thing than the APP? Navigate growth like that you know. Now we're we're blessed to have like some of the best and brightest people like I duNNo. I look at my office now and it's like everyone went to like an Ivy League school. They they wanna work here like what the fuck is going on you and all these folks are so good and they're just better than I am and that's that's what I always. I've just learned wait. You're better than this than I am. So you should do it. I just found. That's been my sort of management style is hire people that are smarter than me and just put them in positions to succeed. Yeah you're genius. Obviously is the creativity. Now this the thing is I think my upbringing has done such a good job of me being sort of self denunciation of anything. I'm good at and I swear to God. This is exactly some of the times and hours. I spend with my shrink. It's like have a hard time figuring. What the Fuck I'm actually good at well especially because the people. We talked to interview regularly. A pretty common thread through. All of us is like this sense of being fraudulent one hundred percent. I think we all feel like well. Wait I'm not Anthony Bourdain. I'm not so and so so somehow a fraud because I'm not those guys but somebody wants to be David Chang and feels fraudulent about trying to be us. It's been really weird and I've been a bad boss in so many ways and I just tried so hard to like be better a lot of. That's been through therapy and I've had a historically bad temper and I swear to God. I'd say ninety percent of my time with my shrink. Why am I so fucking angry and I can actually tell everyone exactly why certain things now and it's crazy to me. I can unfold. This is how my emotions at this point. This is how I reacted to that. Because I've done so much analysis but for the most part when I think about whatever's happening Momo who I feel lucky as faulk into if it is something that I tend to think that I may be good at I live in a world of sports analogies. It's like I'm that player that can't shoot or rebound or whatever but they're plus minus rating is always very high And the team wins. And somehow that's sort of how it plays out with me. Are you technically bipolar. Yeah so I would have to imagine as the thing is spinning up and it's getting hugely successful. I have to imagine that's a very dicey area for someone like you is. That did you have fits of highs during all that expansion. Well you know. The interesting thing was being medicated. And seeing my shrink on a regular basis. I think my highs were like not as high in my lows. Worn is low. The self medication is really. What fucked me up the most right. Right right yeah. It wasn't just a fraudulent or feeling like imposter syndrome. I felt like it was survivor's guilt. Then like it shouldn't happen to me. She happened this person over here because they're so much better than me. Like why the fuck is this happening to me. Yeah and in order to have that release. I would just drink my face off at night. You know yeah so you have ugly delicious right. I see that every time I opened up net flicks. You have breakfast lunch and dinner. Which Associates progams on? Kate Mckinnon you have to be friends with Z's right he's like Foodie and the Ark by the way. I think he's great for your industry in that I watch master none and I'm like Oh yeah it's cool to be super into what Taco you're gonNA eat in the middle of the afternoon to have that as like a mission of like no every single time I eat. I want to try to make it the single best thing I could consume in this moment. Where I'm at geographically is I I like it. I think it's cool you know. It's funny like weirdly. I got to know pretty deeply the world of New York City comedy. I think it started when we opened up the first restaurant. John Mullany in Nick. Kroll would go. Do they're sort of a routine at refusers? I think that was the name so they were just starting out. I was just starting out and I knew crawl from mutual friends and they would come over and we lament how careers were and from there like comedians just kept on coming in pro introduced me to a z's when these was still at nyu I'll know. Shit Yeah and like two thousand six so I. I got to know these people before anyone knew any any. Yeah right really weird. It's been fun to grow up together in so many different ways right. Yeah stay tuned for more armchair expert if you dare. We are supported by masterclass. We Love masterclass. We've had some guests on that. Have hosted masterclasses now masterclass? Let you learn from the best with exclusive access to online classes taught by masters of their craft. You could learn the art of negotiation from Chris. Voss who we had on who we love you can improve your singing skills from Christina. Aguilera Mike do that. You're just saying that you want to learn to sing better. Yeah or learn the art of magic from our own line. Spend the rest of my weekend on. Masterclass should curtail just for your interest with over seventy five different instructors across tons of categories. Literally something for everyone. Now I again I go back to Chris. Voss the art of negotiation I just loved that masterclass I found it so fascinating. I highly recommend. Check OUT MASTERCLASS get unlimited access to every masterclass and as armchair expert listener. You can get fifteen percent off the annual all access pass go to master class DOT COM slash DAX. That's masterclass dot com slash DAX for fifteen percent off masterclass. We are supported by better help. Now Gang it's a little rough out there right now so if you're struggling with stress anxiety isolation depression right now you are not alone now and if you're feeling isolated and worried about the state of things better help offers online licensed professional counselors. Who can help? I could not recommend this morning. What would it hurt to try? It only helps. It could only help now. Better help counselors specialize in issues such as depression stress anxiety relationship sleeping trauma anger family conflict. Lgbt matters grief self esteem more. I've got nine of the ten of those things just say I absolutely love the service so helpful particularly now where people are stuck inside. It's a great way to talk with a counselor and get working on some of the things that are ailing you all. You GotTa do you simply fill out a questionnaire to assess your needs and get matched with a counselor in less than twenty four hours. It's so easy to schedule the secure video phone sessions with the therapist. Plus you can exchange unlimited messages. Better help is a truly affordable option and armchairs. Get ten percent off their first month with discount. Kodak's so why not get started today? Go to better help dot com slash. Dax that is better help. H. E. L. P. dot com slash. Stacks talk to a therapist online and get help now ugly delicious. What season are you in We're onto we filmed breakfast lunch and dinner as sort of a b side to ugly delicious because filming is so fucking heart because our travel and stuff or oh my God. I think it was sixty days to travel for me. Oh my God. You're not just for that just like trying to assemble these. Massive topics into some cohesive. Fifty Minute Docu. Series thing was tough and We wanted to do something fun and also a little bit quicker. So that's why Netflix and Morgan novel. Who won an Oscar for twenty feet from stardom in the Mr Rogers? Doc My partner and ugly delicious was like let's just try to do like a one day shoot and it actually proved to be fucking harder than anyone thought to sure. Sure because I found out a lot of these actors are like they're not acting twenty twelve hours a day. They do your thing for an hour and then you go back to your trailer right. Oh Yeah five months effort twelve hours. I'm acting forty two minutes of that. Twelve hours sane lines in front of a camera. Yeah and they're eating and it's just a lot. It's a pretty taxing thing. I will say the easiest one for sure was the one with Rogan. Where we're just so. I was so high that helps. He would only do it if I smoke the joint every hour off but that was the second season. And we're working on this show with Hulu so I'm doing a bunch of shows for Hulu right now and we're filming with Chrissy Teigen a TV show that had to stop production because of this epidemic. So that was that was like a crazy thing. Yeah could you say which side of all this you liked the mouse or you like it all or you hate it all. I don't know I don't think when I do media. It feels like work. I mean it does but it's not working in kitchens that right to me. What work is and it's so fucking hard and managing the restaurants is so hard but somehow I always again i. I always like an to an addiction. Ninety nine percent of it. I think sucks in restaurants one percent. That's what you're chasing. After all the time it'll keep him back. Yes in in in the media and I don't feel the highs so much it just feels like a pretty steady thing and I like it because it's been able to like give me a bigger platform and I want to be able to be responsible with that platform but I feel guilty. Weirdly to say that I like it. You know I mean yeah because it's not something. I know a lot of other chefs. Have that opportunity and I feel like a a wimp in some ways but I also like it because it allows me to keep my brain engaged in other ways and continue to grow but I will say you know as someone who really enjoys you and I think you're great at it. I think you're great at the media side. I think people were so confused by Anthony Bourdain. Because it appeared that he had the exact life we all fantasize about which is like perpetually on vacation going out and having great food drinking with people and having fun and I think obviously from his book at least we know he had addiction. I never met the guy personally but clearly some significant depression issues and I think it's relevant for someone like you for someone like me to go. Okay yeah. The grass looks green over there. I'm doing this. This is good. But man always haven't scheduled self-healing time self check in time all that being accountable to people. I sure hope. That's a part of your program and plan you know I'm trying I'm trying really hard and I know it's a problem when people like the first thing people say. Hey Dave are you taking care of yourself when ten people tell me that in a month? I'm like Oh Shit. I think I'm I'm I'm really in it right now and you know. Tony. Tony passing was brutal for me because in so many ways he was a mentor. Like an older brother figure to me and When he died I think what was so hard for me was I was like that. Shit was supposed to happen to me. Not Tony Rights. And he's the Mick Jagger of your world that guy's supposed to be impervious something like that and we know we started talking about him asking for help and that that being a sign of strength and for good period of time. I was really mad at myself because I felt selfish. And whenever I would see Tony I think when I first got to know Tony really well we were just hanging and eat and drink and have an amazing time and and then I think it got a little bit less of hang because you realize like oh check I got I got to be like a. I gotta be like a respectable adult for him and help him out. I think that where I felt bad was he had to be so strong for everyone else that I don't know if anyone gave in return to him and I felt really guilty. 'cause I I wish I had said. Hey Tony like you're always helping me. What can I do for you? Yeah I don't know if that would have made a difference but I know a lot of people felt the same way because he was constantly giving to people. Yeah I think that these kinds of Alpha's it's really hard to imagine that they need someone to take care of them as well. Yeah there are so many occasions where I could have just had that simple conversation but as you know is someone who's wrestled with all of it. There's no real magic words right. It's got to be the person asking for help and becoming open to all suggestions and yeah. I think I was intoxicated. Just like everyone else's Tony's a even though there might have signs or things and you're just like she's gone through all this he's got he's got it. You know you know my good friend. Dave chose set the best and they had a very different relationship than anyone else because chose an addict in a variety different ways. He's like Tony just jumped from heroin to work never went to Rehab. He just cold Turkey. Heroin and Tony of severe addictive personality that was tempered over the years but It's scary for me for myself for two people that I care about that. Also have addictive personalities and. It's something that I never thought I'd talk about as much as I do. I'm so glad you do because again yours. Somebody's Tony it is incumbent. Upon you you own all of the vulnerabilities and the you know the struggles in helps people not feel alone in. There's seen someone successful who still actively vulnerable and actively asking for help helps a road. This notion that you can succeed your way into feeling good but she. You can't do it absolutely and I don't know if I'd ever be this open about it if he didn't pass because IRA really Russell is like well. If there's anything could be learned means that like it's stupid to bottle it all up and not tell anybody and I hate myself in a variety of ways and I always hate myself in a variety of ways. But if there's one thing that I can feel good about if it's just one person then then it's worth it but is it easy when you talk about all this stuff because I'm a for fifteen years so it's gotten easier you know. I go share my shit in front of strangers in whatever city. I'm working in and so I I it certainly I got used to it. You know. We'll do the first time I said I was molested. I had been sitting on that for fourteen years and I don't think I told someone again for another five and then someone again in a year and now I'll tell anyone really doesn't have the weight it used to but I'll tell you if I'm being honest it's a lot easier for me to talk about the things I've gone through as opposed things. I'm currently going through. That's still very challenging for me to go like oh no. I'm still fight being a scumbag hourly. That's like my DNA. It's gotten easier but I still do. There's there's potholes all over. Just walk out your front door. Yes so that's something I could get better at aspire to be better at that. The real time vulnerability the real time struggle. You know something. That's crazy that I did recently two months ago because I've been trying to like get the right medication for me. Yeah there was a couple of years where I decided to go off medication and I can look back and be like holy fucking Shit like I was so fucking out of my mind and thankfully I got back on it and it's always been hard to sort of get me to a place where everything's working right. Yeah I feel so sympathetic to everyone that deals with what you do because even if you find that magic recipe right your body then evolves. It's an ongoing right. There's no magic combination and like the way I've always described it feels like I can just get enough oxygen if I'm in the water right like I'm not drowning per se but it feels like I could at any moment after years of seeing my doctor like only recently. Did I found out like I'm bipolar? When I say three or four years ago because I'd ask them like what am I like? Why would you want to know this David? I'm like Fox. Just tell me what I wanNA fuck it now. Yeah and weirdly like two three months ago because we've been trying to tweak my medication to get it better. He's like hey there's this. Dna sequence intest. That's offered right now and it just does your twenty two chromosomes that is most widely associated with your mental health and does a couple that sequences your liver to see how you process medicine and this is specifically just to get you on the best medicine for yourself. Yea and I sat on that for a long. But I just wasn't ready to do it because I felt like this was Gatica Shit and I was like I don't know these are moral dilemmas. And which opened up this. Pandora's box sounds like fuck. I don't know film in the show. Last year was hard when I say I lost my mind. I lost my fucking mind in Cambodia. He was just scrape place to lose it because in so many ways I felt bad I was like you know what this is. This is what Tony should be doing. What the fuck am I doing and and I was just getting ready to have our first son and I was just in a weird place and I was like shit like I needed to make sure that. Don't go down this road so we were like really trying to figure out the best medication for me and I changed a bunch of things and it just didn't work out and I fought like fucking. I'm just going to say yes. I'm going to do this and I got the results back. And it blew my fucking mind really. Yeah I was like oh it explained so much. It was a weird thing to be able to connect the DOTS and You know what was most interesting to me was like it almost immediately. I was like if this becomes popular. This is going to stigmatize mental illness immediately because he was saying. I'M GONNA candidate for Ketamine. There's something in my DNA that says I'm academy and Responder and I haven't called the doctor yet because I'm GonNa be legally alantic. Ketamine dripped into me. Part of me is like yes. This is fucking amazing. This scary but he was saying they have a spray. Where if you're feeling bad Or you know you're going to go down episode. You can actually inhaling your nose and you're immediately going to feel better and I was like this is fucking crazy so effectively. It's an EPI pen for your emotions. I was like wait if you're a diabetic you know. No one's GonNa make fun of you because you're you don't produce insulin because we've accepted that as a society you know. Hey need to take medicine. We get that and I think that this may be a game changer. In how people can accept the fact that people's brain functions in their also we're starting to they're starting isolate some gut bacteria that is really common in different forms of depression. I mean yeah. It's all opening up. I think we're going to have such better options as we go forward and it's an exciting time. Actually I mean does he just got imagine yourself in eighteen hundreds dealing with all this stuff. I'm pretty sure I would not be alive without I I don't think I would have made it either. Well David I hope everyone checks. You have a podcast. Can you tell me the name of your? It's a the Dave Chang show. It's on the ringer podcast. Network with Bill Simmons. And you know now that I have time I'm increasing frequency because I think we have the ability to tell stories for chefs. That are going through this real tragedy right now. The whole idea of like too small to fail as sort of this Hashtag Israel because if the economy almost class in two thousand eight because of these giant institutions. It's GonNa be the same thing if we don't help independent businesses. It's been a brutal three weeks or so talking to my friends that have basically lost. Everything potentially yeah. I been weirdly really busy talking to people from the government side actually trying to give them some insight as to what might need to happen to help out everybody. Yeah that's great man. I'm glad that you're involved with all that. So check out your podcast ugly delicious and then treat yourself if you see them go sign anywhere will good luck getting a table but you see it when this is all over go inside. We've had a dozen amazing meals around the country at your restaurant. So thanks so much for doing this with us. Thanks appreciate it. Yeah thanks we. WanNa come eat with you and we're in New York. I will really love that. That'd be great. Well thanks a ton man. Thank you okay. And now my favorite part of the show the fact check with my soul mate and Monica pad men. We don't normal setup. Let's just say that right in this quarantine life of ours. We don't ever normal set up at the attic where we can really find tune. Everyone's levels in their headphones cam. And now it's just kind of one size fits all right. You gotTa hear whatever volume. I'm hearing what's curious as we also are using headphones splitter so it is conceivable that you're getting more output than I am. Oh do you want to switch? Which is see if it sounds the same to us. Okay yeah it sounds the same. Sounds the same baider-meinhof who knows I had? I've had a lot of better. Meinhof experiences lately. Yeah I forget what they are but I've said it a lot. I noticed you three times in the last four days and I always makes me smile every single time you say I love it. It's really the only thing I've retained from. These fact checks is remind. The only fact I've remembered is the definition of baider-meinhof which is frequency illusion. Which if you hear something or see something then you start seeing our hearing examples you get a red BMW three series and you don't feel like you see those at all but the second you buy that car everywhere you go you notice. There's millions of them. You're not unique at all. They're everywhere. Everyone has a red three series. I don't know that I'd say that's the classic example but an example in relate to buying a car in the noticing that Asahara now everywhere. Yes before is invisible to you. The one I remembered was Attribution error. I love that one. That wants some me up so much. Remember that when we learned that from here what was that one that is when someone cuts you off in traffic and you attribute their behavior attribution to a characteristic of them are a character flaw right so that person's a selfish that person's impatient as opposed to making a a summation of them contemptuously. That there was some situation that caused their behavior. Either they had to swerve to miss a dog or they were rushing to get a kidney to the hospital right. You don't know which it is. Yeah I'm really prone to just say people are pieces shit and make a real big character assessment. I don't think I do that very much. Yeah you seem to be in the middle. Meet me in the middle. Well I mean May- yeah maybe I'm in the Middle Truth be told. I'm just not thinking about that person very much so it's not like I'm even like I just get annoyed for three for one second three and one half second. Yeah and then. I don't think like well. Maybe they're going to have to talk myself out of like a duck off a waters asshole. You just let it roll right off acid analogy and I am. That's the I think the goal forget trying to figure out. Yeah they're going. Who Cares? Yes yes that. That's the dream. I just don't need to be worried about what that person's doing. I can. Just be annoyed for one second and then move on. That's the dream that's the rim what is interesting is sometimes people. Are you know? There's some extenuating circumstances caused their behavior. But I'd seen more often than not. I'm right so much impatient FRIK. Kirsten would always think it's somebody's going to save a life in route to a burning building and I'm like everyone's a monster. I think percentage wise. I'm more often right. Okay I think in some ways you're right. I think people are acting like assholes. I don't think they're on their way to whatever but it's probably because they had a bad day or something's happening with them is causing this. It's not just that they're a bad person right right. Yeah yeah that's true that's true. I'm both things so so quite often. Having children makes semi impossible to get out of the house. So I'm often late or I'm trying to make up now. You could go well then. Just keep backing up when you start the process which is great. That's legit but boy. You know you gotta feed them and this and that and the packing and the tantrums in the Melt Bounds. Wardrobe changes all of it. Leaves me probably on the highways going somewhere later than we should? Yeah and I'm entitled trick so both things are happening. If I cut you off in traffic both people are gonNA be right situational and it was an entitled Prick but just because you had a hard time getting out the door in your late doesn't mean you have to cut people off. You can still just say sorry. When you get to the place you got and not make more carnage on your way well. Yes Oh here's another thing. I think of quite often is 'cause I both do it and I'm the victim or recipient of which is I drive fast. I like to fuck and drive fast. Joy It yes on for me like it and I. I never understood why anyone is getting maximum. Not inconveniencing them. If I'm in the left lane I go by going ten miles an hour faster near going. It no sweat off your back. There's nothing happening to you yet. Occasionally people will flipping off or Hong or do whatever they do and I'm just happily with a smile on my face driving to work quickly. There's no aggression on my and there's anger there's no malice yet. I'll be on the highway and for whatever reason I'm not in the mood to go fast. I'm just listening to a podcast and influence and someone will blow me and my first thought. My Brussel is like God. That guy's aggressive. You might be there. Smiling listen to Christopher Cross sailing there might be no rush into it but it's funny because it's the exact same behavior but when I do it it's peaceful and loving and you just like to drive fast but when someone else. They're aggressive and impatient and all these things. Yeah but it's also that people driving insanely fast. It makes other people scared. So it's it's fair to be like this person's driving too fast because if even if if you were driving next year driving super fast and I got an accident with you and if it was my fault even like the chances at one of us are dead is way higher. Well I don't think so to be honest with you. I don't think the difference between crashing at sixty five and eighty is a big difference. Just percentage wise if you hit. Oh let's say this if you hit a wall anything over forty five your debts or fifty five or something. There's a point where the damage is the damage now at skin. Accordion quicker something. But I don't think there's a big difference between crashing into a Wallet eighty-five and crash into all sixty five. I think you're a goner. Maybe I don't know I really don't know I'm going to do some experiments. I'm going to crash into a wall sixty-five and say how I feel. We're GONNA crush eighty-five. Yuck this is an episode. That is very mental health. Heavy talk a lot about mental health which I love And he was so open and vulnerable about his struggles. Yeah it's hard. It's hard to be happy it. Isn't it always begs the question? Why why is mental health pandemic level? That's what was the first question when the DSM was created and they started being able to administer a standardized test to millions of Americans. That conclusion was either. This test is too sensitive. And it's labeling too many people with mental health issues or there's a pandemic of mental health. I'm inclined to think it's the lack of mental health. You mean I'm inclined to think it's the latter that there is pandemic levels of depression and different issues. Yeah I think it's very very common so common definitely and then you start. You have to ask yourself why it was this. The mental state of Human Beings one hundred thousand years ago. I can't imagine I was thinking about this the other day watching an animal show and I was thinking. There's no way an animal is designed and has evolved to live in mental anguish. There's just there's no upside to and then I just started thinking. It has to be a result of like this weird life. We have that were that. Were not designed to have yeah. I think it's a result of life getting too big Which also leads to higher levels of thinking which is great and has a ton of positives but also comes with some lows. So I think it's one of those like you can't have the good with the bad yet. It's almost it's like one of the issues has to simply. Just be the amount information you have access to. So fifty thousand years ago you'd be an tribe and you'd probably be aware of one or two other neighboring tribes and that'd be your full extent of the knowledge of the world so you want me finding out that there's some earthquake in Haiti and then a pandemic in China then the stock market crash in Germany. Like just all these epic problems. Yeah that SPAN THE GLOBE. That are all in your head. None of that stuff would have been in your head. Also like probably a sense of powerlessness. We have an anxiety. Because when you're in that group of one hundred members of you could actually enact a change you could control your whole world. Yeah and then the mix of crazy fast pace mixed with totally sedentary lifestyle as far as not being physically active sitting and everywhere you go. There's a lot and what's interesting is there's no going back clearly. We're not going back to the Stone Age. So then you have to be pragmatic about okay. Well then his we're GONNA have to get these medicines better and better and better so that they can augment what whatever things being displaced in her head. Something must correct for that. Yeah and is that the future where we're going to have to be medicated. In a way that makes our our environment jive with our REPTILIAN WIRING AWARENESS. Probably more research about the brain and the chemicals and what releases dopamine. I've been there. I mean they're already is so much research but I'm sure that's going to continue and maybe there are things we don't know that can unlock some of that stuff. Naturally just like exercise now. We know there might be other things we don't know yet. I'm just a little pessimistic. When the solution is like a behavioral adjustment when applied to the seven billion people like like everyone can take a pill in the morning. Look at it in terms of like surgeries are Gen- I mean. They vary all over the body but like back surgeries. They're like fifty percents successful on average. It's such a low percentage yet. People refuse to do physical therapy and they know physical therapy like ninety. Plus percent of the time fixes a problem whereas the surgery only half the time fixed in that particular case in. So I'm just always so pessimistic about if there's a behavioral solution to all of it. Well people adapt it. It's kind of interesting that your pessimistic about it because you are a part of a group that has made a lot of behavioral change. Yeah and unfortunately. The success rate of that program is at its best estimation like thirty percent. Yeah so you know way. More people try it and don't achieve sobriety than try and achieve sobriety but alas there's no better solution so even the lower percentage one is still the best solution. That's true I don't know well it depends. I guess it depends on the person but we also more knowledge. It's like this this podcast. Talking about these things makes people feel not alone in that helps and so when we have people on talk about. This is what I'm doing and this helps me then. I think it encourages other people to make those changes to I. Also think like kind of like you say that in order to make a change your hair us to be on fire. You really have to be in trouble. I do think that's true. I think a lot of people once they hit like real low low they do start thinking. Okay what I'll I hope they do. This are thinking. What can I do to call this a bit? I mean even been on the lower end of the happiness spectrum for a bit and a few days ago I was like I gotta figure this out and I remember years ago when I had a ton of anxiety and panic I was doing stuff to get out of it like I was meditating and I was really good about exercising and I was seeing my therapist regularly and then I climbed out of it and I didn't need to do those things as stringently as I was and now I feel like okay. GotTa get back in those routines because those helped. I think it's like once you feel the benefits. You can tap back in a little. You sure I totally agree. I will also point out though. You're also someone who's not a procrastinator by nature so like thing for you. It took like three days of misery before you're like okay. I got to do something. And you're someone that doesn't push it off now. You just like extend that to someone who is a huge procrastinator and didn't do their homework which is a big section of the world and I just get a little pessimistic. I mean I do think I should have been more proactive a month ago. So it wasn't like it was three days. It was a buildup of three days of really low to get there. But I mean I don't know. I believe that people can help themselves. Yeah I believe. A lot of people can help themselves also. Hopefully all of this thought in conversation and research continues to go further upstream. I mean you like to hope that a good percentage of this is is childhood related and I feel like we could improve the childhoods. Yeah that's a lot of pressure on parents. Oh it is. I don't think parents I think there needs to be more systems in place to help children. Yeah you know I think like Child Care became something that we subsidize offered and then it had to have a lot of like emotional components to the training like you know if we actually invested in put some effort into giving little kids tools and yeah you like to think it would be a lot easier down. Downriver I agree okay couple things. He said Japan Colonized Korea in the early nineteen hundreds nineteen. Ten Korea was annexed by the empire of Japan after years of war intimidation and political machinations. The country would be considered a part of Japan nineteen forty-five in order to establish control over. Its new protector at the Empire of Japan waged an all out war on Korean culture. Which is when he was saying. Mine's grandfather's like basically Japanese right. Yeah talk about like generational trauma like that gets passed down this idea that what you are is not good enough and they're trying to be something else that really yes. Yeah okay so I just wanted to be clear because you guys you guys were talking about craft a lot. I just don't know if people know that you're talking about craft at the restaurant. Crafts C. R. A. F. T. That's Tom Kalicki owes restaurant. He's a big sheff. He's he's on top chef. Oh and it's a huge fancy big restaurant but because it's food related. I didn't know people were going to think. It was kraft Mac and cheese K. R. A. F. T. Karameh granollers worked out. Yeah what a great company delicious cheese best macaroni and cheese and the big one hundred years running. However long it's been invented and I think the fact that my grandma had worked there it gave me an extra amount of pride in the Broadway and it tasted even better. Imagine that's no way that it tastes better. It tastes so good. I mean what a product we really believed in it like General Motors. Oh It's me one but anyway that's not the crap that was alluded to unfortunately yes and really. That was those. Were the only facts. 'cause it was more stories and emotions emotional exploration so lovely rare on experts episode. Yeah that's very true so we talk a little bit about. I'm too hot to handle you got into it last night. Yeah well I I yes. We watched one together menu and then we separated and then you have been watching and then I was watching and it's a good show. Let me say why. I think it's a good show. Okay we'll tell the premise. Tell the premise. I guess it's ten five hot chicks and five hot guys go to a island. Presumably IT TURNS OUT IT WAS MEXICO. I looked it up but at any rate they. They're on a beach in their in house. And and they kind of think the premises your everyday reality show. They're all going to date and hook up and stuff and then they find. They can't kiss or Fox or do they masturbate. I don't know how they're whatever monitoring so it gives you everything you want. You want Gawk right. You want to be judgmental in dislike. Some people like some people not all happen. G Get that you get a big tasty serving that but then slowly start seeing like these younger males. I hope that this is just a signal of what younger people are like now. I hope it's indicative of young people at large because these boys on this show were or are supportive of each other. There's such good communicators. They hug each other. They like challenge each other to be vulnerable and I was just like. Oh my God him soon encouraged by this show. I mean I'm only five in. I know spoilers because everyone's watching it. I think it's top rated on. I believe that there's this crazy gender reversal thing happening in this show. Where like the guys are having all these deep talks with one another and they're also approaching the girls and like talking about their feelings and it's so the opposite of what you're used to seeing are used to seeing the girls being quote needy and talking about their feelings and competitive with each other but that's sort of happening with the guys like there's two guys that were one guy was mad at another guy because he was creeping on his girl but it wasn't like he was fighting he was hurt he was her and he was just being kind of quiet and Aloof. And then the other guy came up and was like what's going on to me. I was like Oh my God. That is so what we're used to seeing women do. Yeah so it is like a shock to watch it in this gender of our so I love it I love it and you know what's interesting is. I hadn't thought of this while I was watching it. But I'm thinking of it while you were explaining it. Which is this is not a this is one of the worst aspects of men is that they often establish their their status rank based on their physical prowess so kells is enormous just so much bigger than everybody. There's something to that that there's something about the harmony of the men in the show because the the strata is so clear physically and that is one tiny little advantage. We do have men. Sometimes it's so cancerous but I think in nist specific case. You're not seeing a ton of jockeying for WHO Alpha is. It's kind of just very plainly obvious to the is. I think the girls are more curious. Or there's more anxiety about who's who who's Alpha Beta Gamma I think they're scrambling more for the ranking whereas the guys it seems to have already been sorted Alec Ones goof-ball ones the big toughest motherfucker. They're all attractive so I think that's part of it is like they're all baseline very attractive. That's the point of the show So their sex addicts too. I mean I I'm calling it that but they all do nothing but have sex and are used to that the allfamous. You're you're right. It's like how big you are but it's also about how many women you can get in everyone. There is sort of on the same playing field with that. Yeah I'm just saying there's a harmony in this house and I think part of it is to do with the Alpha Alpha is so clear. There's one guy that's so much bigger and stronger than everyone. Just because he's bigger and stronger. I would never label him as the Alpha Alex. Seeing this whole thing with the leader of the group means does not seem like the leader. I agree that he doesn't seem like the leader of the group. Yeah I think I'm talking about something and if you haven't felt it you can't understand it. Maybe like that guy can kick everyone's ass in there's something about that being very clear that can add harmony really quickly to group of guys but when there's four guys that think they're that guy. I think there's just a lot of trouble coming. Maybe yeah I don't i. I can't relate to any of that I don't know really stupid. It's pretty stupid making the case that it's the right way to be. Yeah just observation of mine. Anyway it's it's a good show. It's worth watching these love you

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David Chang

Anna Faris Is Unqualified

1:14:25 hr | Last month

David Chang

"Hey, everyone esquire magazine called today's guest. One of the most influential people of the twenty first century. David Chang is a chef author in creator of some of the world's most distinguished restaurants including Momofuku. Awarded two Michelin Stars in two, thousand nine and every year since I read his memoir EDP each in the weeks leading up to the interview. But his openness and honesty still took me by surprise after talking with David. I'm once again joined by dating expert coach in creator of Level Online matchmaking April buyer April is so insightful and offer some great practical advice on healthy approaches dating. I want to thank all of you again for your support your feedback in simply just listening to the podcast please keep sending us your questions and telling us your stories just go to unqualified dot com and look for the link. Okay. Here's David. Ladies and gentlemen you're listening to qualify. Affairs. David. What's up first of I can't thank you enough for doing this. Of course. Thank you for having me I. Listen to Your Memoir on audio book, and I'm so glad that I did it is so moving and compelling. It's so well written. How are you feeling about everything I don't know it's weird. You know it's present for a lot of people that are learning about it or reading about it but it's maybe a little bit like a you know a TV show or movie that comes out by the time you do the press you're like wait it's so weird to talk about it in present day, and of course, I wanted to do well but it's also strange that I have it all out there. So I sort of ignore it. Yes. Tennessee right. Totally my strategy yeah that there is that vulnerable feeling and then having to do. Press, where you're forced to recap your memoir, I hate doing press. It's really difficult for me. Listen as a chef I never thought I'd have to do press with food media to begin with, and then when we started a film TV shows, I never thought I would be one of those people that you see on like e television news where they sit in a hotel room to doing interview after interview and I don't know how you guys do it because you're the same question over and over and over again and I'm like, wow, these fucking guys are really good actors because how the hell do it. Megan the tuna carpaccio night after night. I wanted to start this interview asking you to tell our listeners about red dragon sauce. Yeah. Why don't we do that? I. Over the years have realized that so much what? Who has done foodwise has been very educational I think trying to push the boundaries trying to make delicious food innovative value but also it's sort of been a jokey art project to especially when it comes to like racism in Asian, American Food and representation and I just get so mad when I see people mark Asian food with the dragon lettering and everything and I knew people were gonNA. Copy our recipes to without I don't mind copying just do the homework and pay respect own Stuff. I want to get into the idea of duplication. So I knew people are GonNa, copy it, and I also knew they were GonNa copy it blind you tell our listeners what it is well, red dragon sauce basically what you're John which is like a Korean chili sauce. If you go to Korean restaurant, you get it on European bob or rice cakes. It's a very like ubiquitous thing it would be a Heinz Ketchup exactly and I just thought let's just make it this fucking ridiculous name Red Dragon Sauce and nobody not one person questioned the name. Over the years I probably say couple dozen times I've seen it on menus. And I think there's actually a restaurant that called itself Red, dragon sauce or something like that to right that was like their special how sauce that chapter really got me thinking about our ideas original essentially and you write about how every chef owes a debt a gratitude to some degree to everybody before them I admire people who strive for an original idea and you are that person in sometimes it works and it's Incredible to see I felt like what I heard in your book is your passion towards the conception of a brilliant idea to completion like has your theory been proved your I think it has, but also it's a work in progress. Right? There's a line by Stanley Kubrick the great director that I've used. It's like every been done in film every shot every angle, every line your job is just to ten percent better. And in food, it's almost impossible to invent something new and the people that do invent something new like the Nestle's the Mars the giant conglomerates that can create just about anything, and the reality is a lot of the techniques you see in restaurants are copies of what those companies created the failed patents, and I think the older I get the more I realize there's nothing I've ever done. That's truly original making something original. Is the intent to make better that's what I mean. It doesn't mean completely new is like can I make it better than it's been done before that to me is originality that's an amazing way to put it I love it when you write about why get mad about food because I, related to that in terms of have worked with actors who don't seem to really love acting and like anybody we can fucking gripe about All kinds of Shit like, oh, my five am call or whatever like it is especially frustrating when I work with people who don't seem to just like that performance elements and so when you write about working with people that don't have your drive and passion how it makes you angry will even people close to me why do you care so much I've never been able to easily articulate it because I don't know why. I care about something perfectly or making this dish as delicious as possible in some ways I think it gives me meaning at the end of the day. It's why be mediocre at something you have like one life this is your task. This is your job whatever it is, and I know it sounds cliche if i. was telling a younger version of myself like ten year old Chang. I'd be like shut the hell up but. You know the irony is too. I didn't care about doing things properly like most of my life I've always been allergic to work I never went to class. I could give a shit about doing anything right? Fully my clothes doing anything even now I can't take care of myself. But when I'm in the kitchen, everything has to be done bright. It's a weird thing and I think a lot of professional chefs feel the same way I don't know how many forty year olds, two, six year olds listen to this podcast. But whoever they are wherever they are if they have that twenty four year old son that's living at their house right now, they're pissed off at you. Because you don't want to be told what to do well, maybe he could become that shaft honey very few people got as drunk as I did or did as many drugs or got as low of GPA as I did you're a man of extreme? Yeah. I really. I have no idea how it all worked out. So we golfing. Way To, be like a pro golfer well, I wonder how you go from a single minded focus like golf to a very multitasking lifestyle like being a chef running kitchen and your multiple businesses. Did you learn suddenly to be a crazy hyper multitasker? No, and most people would say, David, your horrible multitasker I mean that's just the truth. But the thing with golf is I never really enjoyed playing golf my dad forced to do it and. I burned out at age twelve I mean that's all I did every day play golf in you know not age of my life I was such an obnoxious little shit because I thought it was better than everybody else in the reality was I was better than most people until I wasn't and that's when I think I just couldn't handle not being better than people that your dad viewed you as a prodigy that would help the family. Help the family. It was what he wanted me to be I have no idea how he does vision but he's like you're going to be a professional golfer maybe he took some LSD and I don't know I have no idea how the hell he came up with this idea. My mom wanted me to be a pianist and for seven years I took piano lessons. Did you enjoy it at? All Fuck? No. Do you play it at all now? No, but about you do you play golf well, the last time I played seriously I threw my clubs into the ocean I fucking hate it I still have this disconnect disconnected I could beat everybody in the world even though there's no way I can. But Golf was so ingrained in me and I guess Kino's a little bit similar. So imagine if you playing like competitive piano. Right. That's sort of what my life was like, and at some point you just fuck I'm to try to be good at this and I got very competitive and that is what is the connection between golf in whatever my restaurant life became. That's how I got anything done is I hate losing I hate losing so much. It drives me crazy. So you must hate doing things you're bad at yes. But that's why actually do it. What about something like bowling if I had the time to poll, I would try to become the best bowler of all time. I would do it over and over and over again that's my personality. I will do the things that are not like to do I've been a waitress and I was a waitress at a retirement home. yeah. No Tips Five, twenty, five, an hour. But at least there were only two menu options is like the chicken breast tuna-fishing. And You describe in your book, a position in the kitchen that is under looked. Oh Yeah. so that's the garbage as station. So let me just for the listeners that if you work in, let's say a fancy restaurant more than likely. It's based on a French system and that fresh system was traded by this guy named coffee like one hundred years ago, and he based on the military system in France and the word shaft means boss Sous Chef means under shaft. There's a chef pepper tea, which is like the head of a station, and then you have chef de cuisine, which is basically number two. Technically and everything is regimented and there's a hierarchy and you have the SASKIA slash meet stations. You have the person yea, which is the fifth station you have the entre Ta, which is the vegetable grain station and so on and so forth and the station that day currently I think it's not the love that deserves the Garm on Jay Station, which is the cold station and the Colts Station in cultures like Japan and France are deemed as the highest station of honor. It is the most technically difficult station to do why because you have to learn how to not just make salads and Vinogradnoye you. Also. Do charcuterie which is making sausages and Pat Taes Tureens, anything that's cold. You're in charge of that sounds kind of boring station. Yeah. That's the thing. A lot of cooks including myself groping like I don't WanNa do that fucking station and I want to be on the line I wanNA cook over there where it says cool and dangerous that's not the case if you learn how to be great at that Station, it will serve you very well down the road in your career because learning to flip a piece of meat however that might seem to be difficult to somebody is not that difficult and. It's never easy to do but to have skill and mastery I think as the most important station. But a lot of people at least America's think of it dismissively as just the salad station and in some restaurants it is and I think there's a big divide between what it could be and what people understand it to be, and you write about those hours of chopping and topping. That's what cooking is. It's the dumbest Shit listen I don't know how cooking became popular because in like twenty five years it being a coal miner if that's even around or something like that working in the oil rig. Then I'm going to the world is just totally out of control I don't know what the hell's happening because that's sort of the repetition and drudgery that cooking is it's chopping cleaning, chopping and cleaning. Ninety percent of your day is just doing that you don't get to really do anything new early on like back in March. When we first began to quarantine I would comfort myself by watching kind of odd beings on Youtube. Like some ad for a cruise ship or something which was complicated in and of itself but they were having close up shots at the food and there was lots of garnish and it was at a time when I was first digesting like the potential trauma or certainty I. Remember Thinking will the aesthetic of food be no longer counted was thinking about this as my roots growing out as well like I'm not wearing a bra like, fuck All the protocol is going in for me. That's where I'm at and I think I was headed to this direction before the pandemic of what's the point of doing something that is frivolous I always use the example of like a three Michelin Star restaurant where you're serving a duck breast and you trim the duck perfectly into a rectangle and I've been in kitchens. I've worked in these kitchens you throw away all the other parts of the duck. Well that's fucking stupid. I think it's important to ask how useful or restaurants. Oh, they're so useful. But they're also sort of frivolous to right people could question the same thing about my profession. I. Think we're way less useful than you guys do. You guys give joy. Restaurants can do that too. But yeah, I don't know and being able to cook at home as much as I have that has made me realize what food is without sounding like cheesy hallmark card cooking for people that need to be fed people that you want to express your love to. It's always what like Grandma's food is it's just simple. It's delicious. It's perfectly. Imperfect and I think restaurants should have a little bit more of that and I'm guilty of you know my restaurants and the restaurants I. Often Meyer you WanNa be like the coolest thing you want to do the most innovative thing. But at the end today, just feeding people right David can I give you two countries and you describe your most memorable meal does not best. Done what's and be one Italy Italy? Okay. My most memorable meal was in Milan Abou- ten eleven years ago, and I was there doing a culinary conference and I was dining out with my friend who's a local and he said you gotta go to this restaurant. This grandma makes all the food by yourself and Milanez food is very different than the rest of Italy. At that time, I, had some understanding of Italian food but didn't know like it's actually sort of weird because it's got a lot of French and German influences. That's where like you got the effective like Schnitzel it's just not what you think Italian food is and I just got this whole lesson. What food from Milan could be and it was beautiful. It was also the. Trump will season and we have everything and she brings out this giant wheel of Gorgonzola. And, then she takes a giant birthday cake size of. Stinky blue cheese and puts it on her plate in front of us and they should take a grapefruit size white truffle and she's just a entire way. Trump will all over this cheese and I'm thinking to myself like. Is going on that's not gonNA work. That's the dumbest combination I've ever seen. Secondly, I'm like, why would you waste a white truffle on this and then my friend in Italian translates what I'm asking to her and she basically looks at me with disdain saying I grew up thinking the potato was more valuable than the truffle and a lot of times did they would rather have had a potato than truffle because that was more nourishing and gave them more sustenance. Don't give a shit about this and on top of all when I tasted the cheese with. The tons of white truffle. It was maybe the single best buy the food I've ever had because it was not remotely close to anything I've tasted in my life. It didn't make any fucking sense effectively again, it's a tiny blue cheese and it's incredibly pungent and fierce and I don't know why. But I put a disconnect because I thought, oh. Why truffles have to be treated carefully and delicately but the reality is the flavors gnarly to and when you combine that together, it just actually balanced each other out and it was like I don't know fucking Shit. Fuck and shit this is amazing. I love that. Vietnam I have not been view now I haven't either the reason why I'm saving it. I think the food of anonymous. So beautiful. So if I go there I, want to spend like a couple of months at least. Yeah. Okay. Spain. Okay. I'll give you Spain. I'll take Spain because it was the most memorable meal Omar Great. So I was filming lucky peach which got renamed minded a chef and I was there again doing another culinary conference and when I say colony conference, I like fashion shows you go in front of Bunch of people and You show them the latest techniques in the shit that you're working on a your restaurants and have all these other friends and great chess you Daniel Balloon widely defraigne and Tony Gordon was there when you go to these culinary conferences, you were fed like a fucking pig, the best ship the Best Ibero Ham Caviar you name Oh my God and Spain you cannot eat any vegetables. It just doesn't it's all meat there's no green leafy vegetables. I. Swear to God. In Spain I go to McDonald's for that little fucking salad. Cup because that's the only fucking place. You can get something that's not a can white asparagus something can't everything's canned fucking vegetables or pork or beef, and you crave vegetables and fruit, and we're tired of drinking 'cause in San Sebastian where we were at, they drink giant goblets of gin tonics. I know it's fucking insane. I don't even know how became the drink of that area, but we're talking about like double big gulps. It's only if glass they have for GIN and tonics, they're like sixty four you're like how the fun. On This is fucking weird. The bars they're just serve GIN and tonic. There's no other fucking drink giant goblins Gin and tonic your so fucking drunk, you're so full and you've been eating so well, the last thing you WanNa do is honestly sound. So noxious you get tired of eating. So that's where we're all at the last night and so many of the restaurants in San Sebastian are in the countryside ninety minutes outside the city and I remember drinking the tonic Tony Daniel blue and widely defraying faulk. Go this restaurant Turbo this beautiful flatfish, it's probably my favorite fish in the world to eat and they're like fucking turbo God I can't eat another guy turbo and we're coming up with reasons of how not to go there and maybe if we just keep on drinking, we won't have to go. So we got fucking Shit faced at one of the GIN and tonic bars. That's always a great business daily. and. That's thing I know the the vendor like you have to go. So I don't even remember much of how he got into a car getting to this restaurant, but it's now packed with all the ten dis and we are fed up with the best of the best and we're all sitting out this giant table. It's as beautiful restaurant overlooking the ocean again last place in the world we wanted to be at and this is how you know what was amazing meal. We couldn't stop eating it was so fucking good. It was the best meal I've ever fucking had with the turbo came out even Daniel Balloon was trying to serve everybody and he was shocked they're like no on it's off the bone. So they take these giant turbos and their best in the wintertime, right because they fat and they grill everything over charcoal. Grilling they spritz them with the local Sherry Vinegar. My description isn't doing a justice. It's sort of an affable because it's like eating barbecued fish in its gelatinous shrimps O. Wow. And you're like licking your fingers shits all over your face. It's unreal and we kept on thinking like we are. So if we miss the meal. Fucking, idiots. Is, still. One of the highlights of my life really was amazing. This episode of unqualified is brought to you in part by Peacock, the new streaming service from NBC universal with tons of hit movies, current shows, and timely updates. Peacocks got something for everyone including the most obsessive. I prefer the term dedicated reality TV fans get the peacock APP and stream for free full seasons of below deck southern charm. American enjoy warrior, and more upgrade to peacock premium for full seasons of my other favorites like keeping up with the Kardashians top chef relay outweighs and vander pump rules. Oh, Vander pump rules. What's going to happen when Lisa throws a party to? Celebrate, bow and stocks. He's engagement was kristen left out of the festivities on purpose or was it an oversight on top chef? Padma ask the chefs to make a quickfire dish without any flour and I can so relate not that I am being tasked with making anything but I did run out of flour. 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You get the same signature comfort cushioning your used to from all birds but in a vintage inspired awesome looking to all birds is on a mission to leave the planet in better shape than they found it and hopefully these. Past. Months have made us all aware that things really need to change. We all need to look out for each other and do our part to protect the planet we share with all birds feel confident knowing you're wearing a product that's doing right by your feed and the planet learn more about sustainable practices and find your pair at all birds dot com. Today. Okay if you could live anywhere in the world for a year, I'd probably. Thailand Vietnam, those are two parts of the world where the cuisines are unbelievable to me. The food is outrageous and from what I know of the people would be great too and listen I might do that anyway for a while I had this list completely uninformed of men and professions you should not date and I have not dated that much I. Think I've been out on three dates and then I just I get married. But the list went as follows magician musician. What do you have against magicians this and we spent a long time going through all of this. Right. All right I just wanted to tell you number four is chef. A clown isn't in the top three. Well, clowns autumn blend to the magician. Okay. Okay. Okay. Well, listen I. Think your list is completely accurate. Thank you. So I was so thrilled you were coming on the show I thought Oh this will be great territory for David because my theories dating chef we're not unlike potential red flags for an athlete with a professional athlete it felt like he like the emotional support you must give after every game with one degree or another would just exhausts me personally and then my assumption with a chef only having watched hell's kitchen. Is that I bet the food will be amazing. That would be a real perk but it cultivate a degree of temperament that I'm not sure I could handle. Then I listened to your book and I was like can't fucking ask David Chang about his anger issues in a humorous way because she can she can. Listen I can't speak on behalf of all chefs but there's two people I tell the opposite sex or the same sex never date don't data Korean guy and never data chef. An actress. Right and my wife got both the Christian guy and the chef, the double-whammy and I'm just a harness of a person and I have been. So you're right chefs have for the most part if you're a private chef or you don't have some kind of corporate working. GIG. Your hours are horrible even if you have Monday to Friday, you're probably not coming home till one in the morning to in the morning and the other thing is people think that my wife or even the people have died in the past they eat extremely well, I never cooked at home ever. I act at home on occasion. And It's your job. Why would you want to do that and that's the funny thing. The last thing you ever want to do after spending all day kitchen is to spend more time in the kitchen. So you know my wife literally thought that I was a fraud because I never cooked for for like a year. And the other reason why I never cooked for her is cooking for someone while you're dating too early sets the bar too high to suit you mean man David Chang I know I know I know I said that is true. Now Cook all the time you have plane like your card right off marrow or no? No. That's why you gotTa hold out as card because I don't have many cards to play like my only fucking car. But truthfully now, now that I'm home and I'm not working like I used to I cooked so much in my life has changed and I've grown up a lot and I think being a dad and reprioritizing my life has caused me to reevaluate who I am and why I do what I do. There's a time and place to be young dumb and obnoxious it's the same. Equivalent of being like two old of dude dating like two young of a person right? It'll just looks weird I. Think I've always wanted to be somebody that grew up in a reasonable way and I think for too long I was just stuck being this super angry obnoxious asshole and I think for the most part I. Still those things but I'm trying I'm trying to grow up. Forever Great Examiners of how people perceived us all the time I. Think it's pretty accurate. I think people got me pretty good when I was younger I mean I was pretty monotone as a person just an angry motherfucker. So yeah, like people say you're an Asshole, they were pretty accurate. All right David we're getting back to what is your favorite ice cream flavor shit. That's the hardest question because it used to be cookie dough. Now it's gooey butter cake sometimes strawberry. Like salted Caramel right now I love thought you put buying that because I could tell you the brands and I like to tell myself I'm not an ice cream person but I think I tell myself that because I don't want to hate myself even more than I do because I always eat it. I'm like fuck I way too much ice cream. And you put the carton away. It feels like the simple optimism of have incense in icy and sweet and cranium mouth. It's like this is the time for that feeling. What's your flavor I was just thinking like peach you know what's an underrated flavor pralines and cream? Under all right, you know it's overrated rocky road I. Don't know you like rocky road I think it could be reinvented maybe the older like established brands. It's so predictable because when I was a kid that was like kind of a novel flavor remember Okay Rum Raisin Rome reasons highly underrated it can't be a fancy rum raisin. Like briars or lower quality from raisin taste good for whatever reason when it's not like a super premium brand raisins I of passion of mine. Are you also prune person no nor my cranberry person. Thank goodness. Are you oatmeal raisin cookie kind of person Oh? Yeah. I put raisins in everything. Analog toll. Tell me you dance on a long I don't because they take too long to make. All right. All right. No I really love to Cook David I'm not great but I really love it and I have odd amount of kitchen equipment because it's all our family seems to give each other for any major holiday or birthday just more cooking equipment well, I gotTa send you are Salts and spices had love that what are your thoughts on just plain old vanilla I'm down with that okay. So my mom collects a fine food items from all over the world. Like, I was just thinking vanilla beans that she gets from Tahiti and she has very specific opinions on lake, cinnamon from Thailand or Vietnam, and cinnamon from Outta gas car. There's a whole thing and I can't speak for her but she was very, very, very prepared for this quarantine for her to explore the world through cooking finally using all the shit that's inner covered. Especially make our own ice cream. Oh Yeah. What Oh yeah. I have never made ice cream at home in my life zero. Well, you don't even cook for your fucking wife. All the time for the regular. Way Fred Okay. What's your favorite curse word I swear to much. Here's true fact the New Yorker ran a profile of mean when I was younger and I broke the record for curse words I, said Fuck. Fifty. Six Times. That's my claim to fame I. Wish I was diagnosed with Terrell Syndrome because it would explain why. I probably say, fuck. Past tense. Present tense. Probably the word I say the most every day. Okay. What was your first boss like or maybe you early influencers but think the best boss that I had. Let's toxin toxins shit. David. Well, let's you want to share that. My first boss was my dad he was a horrible horrible. Like my mom again, he passer recently she said he was a horrible father husband yet I. Loved Him that was. The pets eulogy ever. I guess in terms of cooking the best boss I had would be probably market Kinara Jonathan Bannon entirety MMA craft the first real restaurant that I worked at Ed worked at a few others. But that was like the first real real deal restaurant Tom Click is restaurant Marco. Jonathan October Nawab and. They were great because they treated me like shit like I'm a little sibling to them. It was their way of teaching me the ropes and really pushing me. To be better and making my job incredibly difficult with workload like every day for example, on that Garner J. Station that we're talking about earlier, every day I had to make new salad dressing. I could never repeat one salad dressing think about that I think I probably had come with three hundred different salad dressings in my time there that doesn't sound like much eight sounds like a lot. It's a fucking pain in the ASS, and that's the kind of stuff that they would do just like noodle me. That was so beneficial for my development as shaft because it caused me to try to learn how to make something out of nothing to use my imagination and to learn that if I made a buttermilk ranch dressing, that could turn into a blue cheese dressing the next day right and then just constantly iterating in iterating and I I'm so grateful for that opportunity they gave me. You. Write about the idea of psychological trauma, which is something that in the entertainment world, it was an old mentality of yelling you know it was just like barking yelling drilling know directors that are like that. That's a calling card, right? Totally I'm known to be that version of that show. Dave Chang is a yeller and he'll scream and curse. I've been honest and open about that sense. You know the first restaurant and I'm not that kind of person in real life. That's just unfortunately what cooking has brought out of me and I've tried to get better at that over the years. But that kind of rage is something identified early on because that has never been part of who I am as a person I'm a relatively. Passive aggressive pothead and it's weird to be so agro about something again I would ask why do I fucking care about this so much. It doesn't make any fucking sense and I've really worked out why I get angry that took a long time to identify connecting all all the way childhood and then developing cognitive behavioral therapy to sort of temper that. So now I still slip up. But I look at my anger life and addiction. It is very similar to right and when I get angry I feel like I fell off the wagon I I feel like shit. So I really admire that it's something that you recognize worked with director who is really fucking tough and it felt irrational like ninety percent of the time and I remember fellow actor after the shoot was. Over said to him. You know you're kind of addict through and I was a witness to this in the flooring part was how shocked you as this whole time I thought that it was all very intentional and calculated his anger and rage. So we all took quite personally but the fact that he wasn't even aware was like, oh, fuck this might be like even worse than we saw. Something a chef told me early on because the first restaurant and most of our restaurants are open kitchens and it's like theater. You can see everything and hear everything, and after me just having a normal day, probably be an asshole a very respectable chef came in and pull me outside and said Hey I want to give you advice the reason you yell because you're not a good chef and you insecure and I was like fuck you and I've thought about that chef moments like ten plus years, and the reality is that chef was one hundred percent right completely insecure and if I was a better chef, if I knew what I was doing if I had a cohesive plan. That's the problem. Every day is about putting out fires metaphorically and literally. But if I was better at being a boss, there is no need to you. I would be thoughtful enough, empathetic, enough, and plan too far ahead enough to have seen all of these problems ahead of time and to communicate individually to each person what I expected out of them, and if I was so good I would have told them watch out for this watch out for this over here this might happen. So prepare for here here and here but I never did that it was always a reactionary and that was a pride swallowing. Know Moment. I how amazing that you? Not many people can do the? Yes. Okay. What was your first love like? My first love. was probably not reciprocated. Never know she'd totally destroyed me. That's what happens. David I paid a boy twenty five cents every day Ryan Giovane in third grade so that he would like me. You really fucked up. He was the fastest runner David nobody could run faster than Ryan well, riot could have in your life you chose to run fast fuck that up. Thanks David Yeah No. My first one really crushed me and it's the kind of one that came into my life. Her she knew she could fuck with me and she fucked me again and of course, like a dummy. Leader you looking your twenties this was like early in my life and then later in my early twenties. Yeah. Yeah. If they sometimes come back to haunt you those things. But you know we have to honor the scars. My making lemonade out of any heartbreak is that I feel like you're not a complete person. You've had your heart you know scraped you have to unfortunately, which is why I always get weirded out when I know people on friends with people that only dated one person. You know that's not gonNa work so well, yeah parents met at age. I don't know nineteen they got married. They have my brother and myself my brother and I have both been divorced twice. You would think that like we would have been like primed for like stable marriages from the GECKO. Okay what qualities do you look for in a friend? It's pretty simple. I think honesty loyalty which always makes me weird to save because fucking trump. Loyalty is probably tied with honesty I. Want my friends to stick with me in the bad times as much as they will in the good times and also to be loyal enough an awesome to tell me what I don't WanNa hear, and then you get out the knife. Like fuck you. I'm never talking to you again. As they do. On what occasion do you Li-? I'll be honest I. don't really like I really don't, and it's not because being altruistic is just fucking easier holy why you just have to keep track of Shit I am not lying because I'm fucking lazy. Maker's mark. We believe when you've made it through all this. Done with this. There's nothing that compares to a little bit. So keep the music going grab a glass of maker's mark and seriously enjoy your downtime with nothing but this. Unqualified is supported by net flicks presenting unsolved mysteries. The original unsolved mysteries was the first TV series to ask viewers for help solving actual mysteries and the concept really worked viewers helped solve over two hundred sixty cases. I think they may need to consider a new title at some point the original series ran for over thirty years and I think I saw every episode at least once I did not want to miss any clues. Now in the new netflixing serious, you can press pause to study a photo or a document, and of course, you can rewind and revisit case details. At any time so watch carefully do your part to help solve this new batch of unsolved cases, visit unsolved dot com, and submit your observations and tips. Unsolved mysteries has staffed up to ensure that leads are quickly passed to the appropriate parties. This new chapter of unsolved mysteries explores more unexplained disappearances, tragic events, and bizarre occurrences, and I have to recommend watching someone. So you can sleep better, it can get intense if you haven't watched the first six episodes, check them out now to prepare yourself for volume two. Then watch the next six episodes of unsolved mysteries only on net flicks. what's a trait you dislike and others Man, there's so many. I think lack of integrity to be able to believe something but not be able to honest about it. Right basically the entire Republican Party. Star. David on your podcast you talk a lot about movies. What is your favorite rainy? Day. Movie. Can I say Yogi Bear Three D.. Wants Yogi bear through. Most. Of the movie and I really think I had five lines olive which started with a Yogi of varying emotional degree listen that's art that's minimal art. You did it. It's paying mortgage David. What is your greatest extravagance? I love caviar when it comes to food snobbery I am the biggest fuck and food snob you've ever met. But like I do like chicken fingers or anything like that. But what I like to do is a chicken finger in a big tub of expensive caviar. and. I'm not talking about the paddle fish rose I'm about the stuff that is illegal to get. That is just unbelievable. You can't get it here in America but like the stuff from Russia is outrageous, it's so Like why would you want to check with vodka and then you do and you're like Oh my God. So David remember when you were going to send the spices in assaults and stuff your your. Pack a little bit of illegal caviar and their. Samphan. Promoting. I've just when I've been in Europe I've tasted it. There's great. Caviar made domestically in Idaho. Idaho has like I joked tesla of caviar because you're talking about these massive massive fish that are like a thousand pounds that swim up from the ocean and they live in this estuary is just unbelievable and I can't believe we're talking about caviar so I'll shut up because I could talk about it all day. So it's great. It's really really unbelievable. There's all kinds of caviar. Technically, it's not like from a sturgeon it's not really caviar but even like salmon roe central's delicious, I? Think there's always that challenge in. This is a very simplistic way to put it when you eat something that challenges your Palette and then makes you feel a bit alive. I feel like the first time as a kid or whenever as an adult you have a rottweiler Easter or sea urchin or caviar the flavor expectation can be off putting because it feels foreign and then it becomes something that inexplicably crave caviar is not something that I think kids would like to eat. It's fishy it's salty. It's got a weird texture and it tastes like something that you're not supposed to like and maybe that's why I like it so much you know. What haven't you taken the time to learn about I'm so bad at languages and even when I had to take the time in school I cheated. So I, don't know ship and my career now is worse than my sons I say the same thing and I don't think my brain can absorb anything more in life in general. I feel like such a done about my language skill that everything call English English anymore I just call it American. Is there a moment in your career that you're most proud of I'll be honest I was really proud of the team in Sydney professionally when they were ranked best restaurant in Australia and had nothing to do with it. The more I try to make something better these days the more I fuck it up so just give it To run and they're going to way better than I do it. How did you meet your wife? I think the thing I hate the most in life or nightclubs fucking hate nightclubs with the white hot heat. The only way they'd be even remotely fun if you on drugs I, hate them so much and the irony is again, I met my wife in a nightclub. That's the craziest story when I told my friends like you fucking hate nightclubs and long story short. I. Got a call from my friend. He said Hey, we're going to meet a bunch of girls. Club. Do you want to go and I'm like? No but I'll go because there's girls that you know that are there and I went I stayed for five minutes once I heard the beat of the shitty music like I get hit the Fuck Outta here but I noticed this really attractive girl sitting across or standing in the crowd and that's all I needed I'd even introduced myself I. Mean we sort of Madden the next day she held a barbecue. I showed up with my friend that invited me to the club day were cooking food for all these guests and they had no idea what they were doing like just burgers and hotdogs but they were going down there in the weeds and I was like Oh this is a perfect opportunity to show my superhuman skills. And I made food for like seventy five people and was helping them clean up and is now like nine ish or so and people were leaving. It was a Sunday night and there how really hungry and I said Oh You know what's interesting I have a restaurant, just two blocks down the street. Why don't we go over there read? And that's how it started. Flat. You told us. The you did not Cook I. Didn't Cook for them. Babar's hotdogs is technically there's seventy five people. That's good. Seduction material there. The first time it actually came out the way it should have come out. So I was thankful and. Is Amazing to put up with me so. In one word how would you like to be remembered your dammit what's up with these hard questions? Shit. Cranky curmudgeon that's it. That might be accurate. Yeah. I can grow into being more now I don't know I mean. Kind. Loving can. That's bullshit. Well. Is. A very accurate were for who I am right now. I think you're fucking amazing and I cannot thank you enough Shouli. It means so much appreciate it anything I can ever do for you me know and real pleasure to speak to you and hopefully we get to do this again soon love that Wonderful. Rest of your day, i. Be Qualified advice segment is supported by better help I. Don't know anyone who's life isn't stressful, but sometimes everything can just get a little overwhelming and it doesn't have to be that way. We could all use help when we're feeling down but may not know how or where to ask for it. Better. Help counselors have expertise in a broad range of areas including anxiety, depression, relationship conflicts, self esteem, and more connect. Privately. With your licensed counselor by texting phone or video calls and get held on your own time at your own pace and added an affordable rate. Everything you share is confidential and know that you're not alone over a million people have taken charge of their mental health with the support of better help counselors. In fact so many people have been using better help. They are currently recruiting additional counselors in all fifty states. So start by filling out a questionnaire to help assess your specific needs and get matched with your counselor and under forty eight hours. Better. Help is an affordable option in our listeners get ten percent off your first month with the Discount Code Farris. So get started today at better H E L P dot com slash f a R. I s talk to a therapist online and get. Hey Everyone April buyer is back on the show day. April is a dating coach and matchmaker who spent the past twenty years dedicated to helping people find and build lasting relationships. You can find more information about April and our other experts at unqualified dot. com. Hey April welcome back. Thank you again for doing this. Thank you. It's been awesome. Let's call Mitch. Hello. Hi Ana how are you? I'm great. How are you doing well? I'm here with April buyer and she is amazing. Nice to meet you. Thank you for writing in. mentioned. Thank you for talking with us. You tell us what's going on. Yeah. Of course you like recently I've just been being like one of those people who will be forever alone in some days. I'm okay with that. But then other times just kinda scares the hell out of me but a quick rundown I came out halfway through college back in like two thousand thirteen. I maybe had like two or three flings in college but I always knew I wanted to work in the entertainment industry and moved to Los Angeles. So I didn't really pursue those relationships because I didn't want to and Having to choose between a guy in my career. So after I graduated college moved to Los Angeles in January two, thousand, fifteen, I spent the first year to like really focusing on my career and getting to know the city and the people, and it wasn't until about two thousand seventeen when I really started putting myself out there and going on dates etcetera past few years there had been multiple guys I. I really liked and we got along great. We had good conversations leading up to the dates and I felt like the dates went. Well, we had a lot in common. You know music we liked and movies we loved and places we wanted to travel and go see and stuff but. Most of them ended up just ghosting me which really sucks because you know when you don't get a reason as to why that Kinda hurts. But then there were a couple other dates that went even better like there was a bunch of dates that we went on over the course of like six to eight weeks but for those guys I. was realizing that I was the one who was texting them. I. Meant engaging in the plans and asking them to dinner asking them to go hiking or to the movies and I would always ask myself why I was the only one putting in the effort. So I decided stop texting them just to see if they would reach out to me and make the plans and he never did then I was like, okay well, now I'm I, the one goes in or the day still ghosting me because they're not putting in the effort that I was and it clearly kinda seems like they don't want to continue dating. So I've just been stuck in this Rut recently because you know one, we're gonNA pandemic and it's harder to meet people too. I'm not like really the biggest unsocial dating sites. And I know at the end of the day, we shouldn't really compare ourselves to like other peoples timelines but. For Someone Being Twenty Eight, I turned twenty nine and a couple of months you know never having been in a relationship or in love it's really hard not to think about that. And I love Los Angeles my career is going well but. The older I get the more I'm torn between moving back to the mid West or staying in La, and you know I'm wondering if you think that a city and the people who live can really live up to like the toxic stereotype that people make it out to be Mitt, you have called. The right and wrong people. I'll take the right one. I. April you're up. April. Okay so you're twenty eight your soon to be twenty, nine can't you said you've never been in love why do you think you've never been in love I just don't feel like I have like I don't feel like I've really experienced true love wanting to be with a person spend time with them all the time it'd be with them for like the rest of my life or possibly you know get married with someone I haven't really met that right person and I feel like I might not meet them in the city. Hey Mitch. What is the significance of coming out in college? Why did you specify that? Did it feel late to you kind of because I you know back in like early chosen ten to eleven especially in the Midwest being gay wasn't very accepted there. So definitely took the gay community longer I feel like to come out and specific area like the US but. Then I look back now and I see all these college kids go to the same college I did and they you know they were coming out at early ages and like early college or even like high schools, they're able to be more open with themselves and experience the dating pull that I really wasn't able to because I didn't come out to later on. Do you feel like Mitch now especially, like living in Los Angeles do you feel much more comfortable with all of that? Absolutely. Yeah. Another reason why I moved out because it was so gay friendly and very liberal. KEEP IN MIND MITCH THAT LA is made up of people from all over you know my husband's from the Midwest and that's why he was my favorite choice. You know I'm a California. Girl I meet a guy from the Midwest. True Blue. Straightforward and potatoes kind of guy and he got my heart because he was so different from everybody else around me. So please know that that's actually a value that you're from. All I find my attracted more to guys from the Midwest ones I really did like out here in la they they were from like Ohio Minnesota or Michigan like myself. Yeah. Where is the expectation? Where do you get that from that? You Know Twenty, eight, twenty, nine that you should have all of this lockdown and that you should have had love beyond your way who told you or where did you read that you should have this buttoned up by now it's not specifically that it's more I guess. It could be like just personal fear of mine of. You know. Just knowing that I feel like the majority of people like were able to date in high school and college and kind of like figure out like who they wanted out of a partner like what certain characteristics they're attracted to, and I feel like that's scary for someone like me because I've never had that and it's scary to jump into a relationship now because. You know most of my friends are saying it's kind of like a good thing that I've waited. So long to date in my mind might not be because they you know the person I'm actually meant to be with my come next but then in the back of my mind, I might be like why should still test the waters and data around and kind of like really see like. Who I WANNA be with. So you're actually kind of creating a scenario that hasn't yet happened I. Guys that like my own self fulfilling. Well just remember you're the guy that chose career in education over relationships. So even though some of those people around you were, you know figuring it out and they knew what they wanted and what they didn't want and they were dating somebody you were intentionally not choosing somebody because you have this vision this dream you wanted to go to college you want to. Focus on your work, you wanted to get L. A.. So it's not that you couldn't. It's just you chose not to but that was back down because now recently I have banned I really have been trying to like put myself out there and go on dates. Okay. So for how long do you think just since you been quote unquote putting yourself out there. For five years okay. If I were to tell you that most of these lasting relationships are happening with people in their thirties. You believe me the fact that you've been spending your time developing your life and your foundation and who you are, and then you meet somebody makes you that much more of a trustworthy partner later on and I don't think you need to learn more fear meeting somebody. And then backing out of it because you feel like you're gonNa need more experience because we don't know what that other person's GonNa bring to the table either so don't imagine they're part yet just imagine hey, I'm almost twenty nine I've been developing my car and my life, and when I meet a guy I'm a better partner because I know who the heck I am. And I don't have all of these failed romances from the past that have kind of. Put a dig in my door. Yeah. So to speak April, how do you sort out the people that like Mitch want relationship as opposed to people that are treating it kind of like a game? How does that language get broken down? So it's like no, no I don't want to be swiping for the next four years. I actually would like to have a companion in my life that I love video game. Yeah Right. It's time passer and a time suck. So first things first is that. To get over that hump of not feeling rejected as this swipe is exactly equal to if you're in a bar and you walked in the door and somebody looked up and met your eyes and you met there, that's it. It is no acknowledgement of I like you I'm interested I'm ready available. It's literally just the look up. So that's number one number two on your profile speak to more of who you are and what you want and not what you don't want. And unfortunately, with some of the gay dating APPs, is that it so sex forward and I'm sure Mitch, you've seen this too. It's like, Hey, a midwest guy I'm educated. I WANNA relationship I. Don't want to be in this kind of environment where everybody's looking for a hookup but I know plenty of guys that have called me and said, listen I can't be in the gay bars on a wannabe and I wanna be on these dating sites how do I find somebody who is as steady and ready? I think it's really about your choice in imagery to make sure that your images literally reflect back. Like who you are that you don't play their game, you play your game that you state exactly who you are and what you're looking for. You don't have to say I'm not interested in the swipe, and then finally it's about being super open minded to connection and not worrying about your end goal. So your need for relationship can't be your driver especially now, Mitch, it just has to be, Hey, I'm interested in connecting with people that are like minded share my thoughts share values, and that's it like don't worry about attraction or anything else. I feel like I. Definitely am I mean going back to honest. About like weeding out like the inconsiderate people I totally agree with that and I also agree with like. Knowing how dating sites can just be very vapid and shallow like I don't like to be on them right like I said, you cannot change the way people are behaving. But it's important that right now because you're so young match, you have to know how much time you have in front of you. You're so young you have so many opportunities and life gets better. The closer you get to thirty especially, I believe with gay relationships you're going to start to see this. Thank God. You're having your birth things because the twenties for anybody is really difficult but think about it like when we're in our twenties everybody's Horny and like having like whether you're straight, it doesn't matter I remember being more jealous and driven by more insecure and very. Be Hard for me to be more self absorbed than I am now but. It might lowercase four shirt. She's right. It's comparison time. It's a time fraught with a lot of insecurity and people are just kind of they're doing their best right. They're not out there to try to hurt anybody just figuring their shit out really and the comparison is huge I. Think what's most important is that we talk about the effort you're putting out because the APP fatigue is real. And usually people that feel the fatigue has nothing to do with how long they've been on the APPS but how they've been using the APPS are you on it like checking I know you've been doing in the past but when you were on them, were you checking it all the time and like you said earlier, you were the one making the dates. You were the one planning the dinners making the phone calls, most of the guys that I was going on dates with was either through friends or it was through like meeting them unlike instagram or. Maybe, twitter it really wasn't through like tender bumble or any of those apps I did how I came out to La and like two thousand, fifteen, hundred sixteen but it was just exhausting just the constant like swipe being in the shadow conversations and it just felt like it was an authentic meeting people in person or through friends which I know does kind of weed out the more inconsiderate people who maybe wouldn't just straight up like ghost you because all your communication was on like an APP. But it was like meeting through like a person and warlike personable. Yeah Yeah. I think that for you, it's standing where your effort is. Do you mind me asking what you? I'm a publicist? Own. My own PR agency Miss. Okay I knew it. Was Going to ask you Mitch if you're an entrepreneur. So when you own your own business, you're used to handling everything you're responsible for others you're working for people. You know if you don't show up, it doesn't get done right? Right right okay. So that's manifesting in your personal life, and if you're not careful, you can get so exhausted from all of the work and the effort I believe. That you need to get into this idea of receiving. And trusting that if you don't get it done that somebody else will bring around the wagons and offer that phone call or offer that plant and until they do. You're going to sit back chill out and rest. I'm not saying be passive but this is how you weed people out. You did it before but she didn't. As a way of like. They're not making it. So I'm I'm just done as opposed to starting and really paying attention to I. Put out a call. Now let's see what I get back. So April, you're saying his drive in his business there's a direct correlation with is dating approach. Yes. I would imagine I'm going to take a wild guess that you were raised to be successful to be educated your diligent your heart on yourself. You're a perfectionist thoughtful person you're driven like am I She's good right. They know where she's so good it's intimidating. It's spilling over into your dating life Mitch that makes sense I mean it does make sense if I'm like, you know a go-getter harder like trying to really you know make my business work to make my client's happy and you know do all that, and then it kind of does the low version to. Try and find a guy like making the moves and doing that. But like. Sometimes, I WANNA be taken care of two or I want someone to lake you know pull the rain the dock in might take charge like myself or like the relationship you know just so I don't have to have complete control all the time because I do completely in my professional life I gotta you're talking to to people who are equally as driven in our perspective players. Off these. Days. On his back. So you know it's like you're checking boxes and because of that sort of we call it the driver mentality, you're the driver of all things and what happens is when you're the driver, you end up getting very hurt and very frustrated by people because you're like if I don't pick up the ball, no one else will, but it goes with our. Friendships that goes with our partnerships. It goes with people we work with you have to do what you do, but then also have this awareness of okay. Is everybody else around here carrying their weight to and do I trust that I don't do it that I'll still receive that phone call it's trust within yourself. Not of these guys it's trust of like. I showed up I was real. I was myself. It was a great date if he doesn't call again. Next, you know because you can't manufacture these relationships was what you do is you end up bringing in lazy people into your life and then you're really driving the entire thing the entire way through and it doesn't make for a happy life because I'm hearing you and I'm thinking Gosh you know twenty, eight, twenty, nine, year smart your entrepreneurial you're successful you gotta have more patience right now it feels like it's been four to five years. But. If we really broken apart and we had more time a Betcha you been really at this perfect stage of like that next level readiness for maybe the last year and you might actually even only be entering into it now because we're truly truly ready for partnership and we've Kinda, quieted that voice we're in our receiving space that person shows up and you don't need thousands you really don't. And the dating. APPS give us this illusion that we have to have deal flow in order to be successful. So for those of us that dated before dating, APPs we didn't have that I didn't get to get in front of thousands of people a month to find my partner was lucky. If I saw one guy a month that I liked. But April, we've also overly romanticized for better for worse or pass relationships. Exactly exactly. But we knew less it's kind of like renew less. It's like the older you get like you refine your palate right? So when you're palate has refined. Emotionally. You meet less people. You consume less stuff and as honest. So beautifully, put it the romanticizing past more people got to be in our circle when we were younger because we didn't really know what we were doing yet. So as you get older and as you refine your Palette, you become more selective and when you're more selective less people are around that's part of the plan in its design that way so that when you do see the right friends, partners and lovers that they're super easy to spot, there's just not that many because you know your age match being an entrepreneur that also puts you in your own category. So you need somebody who's hardworking you need somebody who's curious. You need somebody who is patient you need somebody who is into partnership skills. Yeah. Not a taker because if somebody is looking to have their whole life planned for them, you're going to be exhausted. You have staff you have clients, all kinds of people you have to worry about all day long, and if you're anything like me, you worry about your clients Friday night at midnight or Saturday at three in the morning, right we don't have to actually be at work to be concerned about our clients. So for you, it's really putting it out there that you're here now and saying that you're this midwest transplant because the idea of you going back when you already told us that you love La and that your life is here careers here it's not GonNa Change Much. Of anything because I think that by being here as long as you have, you may go back and may not find your people anymore you've grown exponentially. So give it time, April. That is a great point. Interesting. You know we always look back. It's kind of like how we're all looking at this pandemic right? We're all saying I want my life back I want things the way they were and all that does is upset us and frustrate us and really just make us depressed. This is what it is right now how can we make the most of it? So I say you need at least least another twenty four months maybe thirty six here where you don't even think about going home. and. You say, I am in it to win it. And I'm not on any kind of time clock and the person I need to be with since I don't need many 'cause I'm busy anyway is out there and I'm going to be very selective I'm going to say who I am what I'm looking for and I'm going to engage with people as long as they're smart and all traits I talked about curious smart, he's gotTa. Be Partnership skills meaning he's calling you as much as you're calling him. He's making plans with you as much as you're making plans with him and by the way that has nothing very rarely do with interest level. That's just who those people are because you've done it right? Mitch even when you weren't sure that this guy was for you still picking up the phone making plans. Yeah. Yeah when you anti up and you grow your career, a lot of like busy professional women feel this way to is that the higher they climb the less they find romance it's harder right. The stakes are higher. Things are different maybe if Didn't have your own company, it would be different the circle would be bigger. Keep in mind that there's still so much time I just think you're just really hard on yourself. I might be I. Think my generation I mean I feel like we feel older than we actually are, and we do need to take into perspective and maybe when in my thirty that's when all it really truly find someone well, by the way, don't think in terms of you know. then. Because that's GONNA. Make you sad too because we want you to have love and attention and affection adoration now. So just think about it in terms of I'm not going to settle. But I'M GONNA keep my eye open. My mind opened my heart open I'm just going to be out there connecting and along the way there's going to be one person that I just want to spend more time with. If, you frame it that way it won't be like, Oh, I'm going to be in this dearth of activity until it happens because that's no fun right you want to be dating you WANNA be connecting with people but just taking your eye off the prize off the target doesn't mean I would say just because you're letting go of your grip doesn't mean you're. Letting go of your dream, it's that grip that makes us angry and frustrated and not cool to date and it's the open mindedness that says, Hey, I'm looking and I'm ready to receive it but I have no idea when it's going to happen that's what makes an easier person to know and it makes your dating life more effortless and less stress. Thank you. I know this doesn't sound like practical tangible advice because you know the practical tangible advice is actually very easy to give everything starts with mindset everything April. I'm so convinced you are such a genius relieved love your approach of curiosity and confidence and self not self reflection. It's not self determination but I guess a sense of one's own self worth before you date well. If. You think about it everybody did that kind of self check you know we all look at our cars before we go on long road trips but nobody looks under the hood of their own self before they start dating and then they get kind of pummeled the wind like if I were let's say I were single right now and I was back quote unquote there. I would have knowledge of what am I core values? What is it that I want? What am I deal breakers? What do I have to offer? What's my romantic value and I would keep my list really tight and really simple and I would enjoy I wouldn't be thinking of when am I gonNa meet them the people that take their eyes off the target in my opinion and all of my clients who've actually gotten engaged married through me. They were the ones that came in with hope. Without the grip they were the ones that came in and said, you know what I know who I am and I know what I'm looking for. But let's just try some stuff on. It's the people that came in with this mission of we gotta get it done yesterday I have literally on my face with like I was not successful with those guys. So it is attitude. Yeah. But does this pressure that Mitch's feeling with timeline? I think we all feel and it's hard to dismiss I. think it's seventeen I have my. Line I was going to get married at twenty seven have child potentially if I wanted one thirty of course things don't work. I'm I've been divorced twice. I had a child at thirty five and I'm not sure. I. Body can handle the journey again new I. Guess. I'm stating the obvious things don't go according to the plan. Yeah. Do you feel that Mitch? Do you feel that pressure? Definitely I feel like my generation definitely feels that pressure yeah I think I. Yeah. I think you're right I think that's something to unpack because you said it earlier we all feel older than what we really are. So really just Mitch it's about getting perspective back. Perspective is everything you know you only need one and the further along you are and the further along somebody else's the better. You can D- rescue future because remember you bring somebody into your life, your heart, your bed, your business, your tangling with somebody. So you better know what you're doing. Right? You better know who you are and so the older you get the closer you are to finding the relationship. That's GONNA stick. Because you know who you are, and that person hopefully knows who they are and when you do, it's easier to see like, okay. Wait a minute like this guy is not the right. Person for me to hang out with and spend any time with, and that's that selective thing we've been talking about not being picky. But being really selective just ignore the pressure it's just marketing. Advertising and Marketing Hate Mitch. Did we help view definitely opened my eyes to like some new perspectives? I really didn't think too. You know call myself out on I got. So. Yeah. I think I'll still take it easy. Take it slow and not try to think that. I need to compare myself to anyone else and everyone's passed different and you know just continue to. Try to talk with guys and make plans, and if they don't work out and don't get too hard on myself because you know we're all going through different things at the moment and. It doesn't mean they were malicious or you know volatile against me directly they could be going through their own thing. One hundred percent hopefully eventually in the next couple of years I might find someone and. If not maybe I'll just take a little. European vacation and there might find someone there. You never know okay great. Yeah. The cool thing is is that it happens when you least expect you know that's the best part of all. But Mitch I loved that you're looking because for me companionship is so crucial. I just appreciate your sense of that because I think that's something that we very much have in common and like millions of other people. So thank you Mitch so much. Thank you guys so much. Maybe, there's the fellow and like Sam France maybe there's somebody in. Need. It's listening listening. Yeah somebody listening, and we get together and get a need to get married and your ordained Oh my God. Oh my Gosh I WANNA com. April you're walking down the aisle. I'll be there. They can't thank you enough of love talking to you and thank you for talking to us. Thanks Mary on thing. To. Have a wonderful day. Welcome. To bye-bye. Thanks again, thanks on such a pleasure.

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Bonus: David Chang Interview

Staying In with Emily & Kumail

30:35 min | 8 months ago

Bonus: David Chang Interview

"Camila Johnny Hi Emily v Gordon and wow you're getting a bonus this is a bonus episode of staying in with Emily and Komal. You guys have been going so you get a bonus. This bonus episode is an interview with our friend. David Chang who is a chef and restaurateur restaurants? All her also and Artur. He has a show on. Netflix called ugly delicious. Which is one of my favorite shows. I cry watching not. He's not but what makes an tour? I mean I don't. Let's keep someone who does things clear. Think goods this things good. He's not talk as he does things we interview with him and we it was. We kind of ended up chatting for a while. I will say that he you'll hear on the episode. He's on the phone trying to grab Wi fi where he can to talk to us. So the quality. Don't yell at us about the quality. We did our best and I will tell you that the first three minutes to quality isn't great and then the quality improves. Yes but it's I. Don't think so bad that will make you want to tear your eyes out and throw them at a bus. But perhaps we haven't been studio turns your eyes out and throw the Metro bus. Wow I don't think I've ever been dad upset. I get on the bus. If you've torn your eyes up. Is it a stationary purchase topped bus? It's not a moving bus stop at a bus stop. Maybe you gotta hurry before. All the customers derives house fast. I don't think I could rip my eyes out that quickly. Okay let's get back right. Oh sorry the buses gone. It's a lovely. It's a lovely conversation with a lovely man who has very passionate about the restaurant industry. Obviously I'm very passionate about food so we wanted to talk to him about that in this new day and age you wanted to. Yeah we wanted to hear about whether restaurant industries stands in this day and age as you just said and we wanted to get some cooking tips from him like how. How do we take care of ourselves? How do we do good job cooking when now all of us have cooking a lot more than we perhaps not all of us but some of us are cooking more than we're used to so with less ingredients at times? Yep less ingredients that enjoyed this conversation with David. J Hey Dave Chang. How're you doing good? It's been a pretty brutal say fertile week. I felt that from hanging. Then I if you went with where in the world are you located currently not in New York. I'm staying at play and like family members here that are stuck to fly my goodness. I have a Literally and ask the friend helped out and he literally all here but the Wi fi is terrible. So I'm calling you out by the liquor store in the you know the way the most of us aren't getting your all your cell phone. Yeah I'm calling cell phone on the Wifi near your liquor stores that I I've packed into these are essential services. This is what they meant when they had essential services literally. I start of having you on the podcast. Because you were so vocal tweeting about people in the service industry who are gonNA be so hit hard. Hit so hard by this. Obviously there are so many people that are going to suffer but I feel like that that sort of subset of people. It's going to be very very difficult for him. Apart from all the actual sickness. This is one of the big fallouts of this thing. I've been keeping tabs of covert nineteen for a while because I have friends in the industry in Asia and obviously in how decimated their industries and their restaurants and lot ways allies. And I don't know if there's a disconnect but I knew it was going to come here but like no matter what like I wasn't as prepared as health and you know I'm still processing why it wasn't like doing ladder about it because I I guess I was afraid. People are gonNA be like chicken little little bit but that's what commands new nickname in fact. That's what I call myself. I've been calling myself chicken little and like I was really scared. I didn't WanNA cause or so I knew what was going to happen. So and it did help and No cost to hear the hyperbolic sort of tone of this'll be the doom of your business but it really is here and You know whether people realize they're not restaurants are tied cash flow business. So you need money possibly in your doors in order to pay your employees and you have a little farther than it just set up or if you're not open you're gonNA hemorrhage money and And there's this great article written about The so that chain reaction if the restaurants slow from pick service restaurants too small mom and pop restaurants and everything in between the economy is going to be shut down because they're not the people who do the laundry completing their trash fish monger put sure the farmers the people that play like gets an entire heating system. That's around axel restaurants and it's not just he's an hourly employees and documented undocumented workers that lose their job to benefit and it literally. Everybody and I was like foolish that happened. I mean I'm not an economist but I just don't see how this work and it was pretty clear to me that there was no unified voice. And there's those solidarity because you know we're a band of independent restaurant operators whether you have one restaurant or several like we do Just don't have the cash flow to continue to tape people We just don't and as much as I would love to people think I'm Richard. I actually am all my money. There was in the restaurant so you know it's it's a it's a it's a promptly situation and restaurants are far to get loans even in good times. I don't know if people realize that. A lot of chefs personally guarantee loans or get investors to open up a restaurant because they'll think it's going to give restaurant low Because Batting Besson and is considered by the economy as a non essential distance and I was just really scared. Because I think we're going to happen is every once in a gift. Her but the people that have representation and huge balance sheets. And Are you seeing? Bide important businesses like banks and hotels and their lives and cruise ship. They're going to get paid. I you know they're they're they're well oil machine particularly in the lobbyists sector and whatnot. And there's no organization even though there's a lot of solidarity we don't have the mechanic to sort of mobilize our opinions and and in a time of need. I was really scared. That trump was going to best on your and that there's no lobbyists for restaurants. That's not a thing I mean I i. There's a national restaurant association. But like I think they. Their interest aren't always align with independent operators. And you know that's that's it. That's like most restaurants that you go to if they're not a chain restaurant or literally owned by you know someone that is in business for themselves or the you know like there's no coalition you know and so that there is no lots and I know that chefs or scrambling to figure out how to get lobbyists. And when I heard a number was being thrown at thrown around to get a lobbyist was three hundred a half million bucks I guess so man I was like. How could some human being not try to do this? Pro Bono is beyond. Yeah and you know. It's a restaurant as someone who obviously goes to restaurants. All the time loves restaurant. World Food is such a way to important part of my life. I'd never actually thought about the restaurant industry. And how it sorta sustained itself until just now. I mean obviously new. Since I was a little kid I go to a favorite restaurant. And if their people weren't there I would get like sad I'd be like Oh this place isn't going to last but I haven't thought about. It's the first time that I've thought about like the entire restaurant industry as a whole where it seems like as you were saying big restaurants. Small restaurants everybody. Everybody's in a tough situation right now. It's it's such a weird thing to think about Because it's never happened for it's hard to contemplate and You know people need to understand that we're as vital to the economy as the banks and insurance companies in two thousand and eight that got saved by the government and that was the Hashtag too big to fail and a lot of people rightfully mad at these banks and institutions. Because they got us into this mess on the other end of the spectrum. We didn't restaurants didn't do anything to get us into this mess. Yeah you gotTa do Shit Everything. You guys are blameless and yet also like we. Everybody desperately misses you desperately. Needs you know we were watching. We started watching the new season of your show ugly delicious by the way people at home if you haven't seen ugly delicious on Netflix. It's an amazing show. I will say when we started watching. Swe Watching your fried rice episode. Which is the first episode. I got so like I got this curious. Mix of like anger and sadness and like it was like singing ex-boyfriend onscreen just watching people sitting around a table enjoying food at a restaurant. I emily started bawling of you know Alan Yang is their mutual friend of ours and and food critics and and chefs and stuff and you and emily. I looked over and your show makes me cry. I told you this before. I've cried it your show before but I looked over to the right. We're few minutes into the episode. Emily is balling in a fetal position. Just crying and it just hit me quite hard. I was like that is something I think. All of us maybe took for granted is is how important just sitting down to eat with friends in a in a public place how important that has been to all of us no matter the amount of money you have. If you're going to a denny's if you're going to one of your it doesn't matter where you are like. That's something that I didn't realize how much I was going to miss. And it's only been a week and a half barely any time so it was hard I we had to turn that episode off. Unfortunately I I'll I'm GONNA get back and I finished watching it and I. I loved that episode because it sort of gets to what your show is. Obviously you know I love food shows cooking shows but you're show really captured sort of the social aspect of food and the cultural aspect of food so that episodes of mud fried rice and really talk about how racism against Asian people sort of fits into Americans enjoyment of Chinese food and many many episodes of sort of like that fried chicken. Abbas from last season was awesome. Really good that's what I love about the show. I've never seen a show like that's really about how throw parts of and how food brings us together and we take for granted but it's about community it has always been about community and telling stories over food is one of the sort of like. I think that's that's like part of humanity and you know I I mean like everyone else. I've been critical of trump. Because you know it is important what you eat. And this has a direct correlation to what the stimulus packages or their lack of support from a federal governments end. Because you know trump eat fast food and he doesn't want to eat food from state MUZIO PIA or you know Mexico or countries that she just you know. Is You know afraid of trying new things. So if he doesn't care about that he doesn't care about the people there. Why would he care about a restaurant you know? That's trying to make some food from region of the world that he doesn't care about. Why would he want to save this restaurant? And that's frustrating. And I think I honestly think you guys are artists and unique in the way that the art you make the food you make literally becomes part of the person like you literally consumed that art. It becomes a part of you. There's no other artists that really has that. You can't get kicked out. Try to eat a renoir. Once I I couldn't pick him out of a lineup but basically that it really biologically becomes part of you. Do you have any suggestions? We one thing that I do now. I don't know if I have. I've been suggesting to people personally but I'll do now to buy a gift certificate to their favorite restaurant now if that restaurant is not open for take out just to show a way of showing support for that restaurant. Do you have any other thoughts on what people can do to support their favorite local restaurants? Yeah you know. There are a multitude of things you can do gift certificates as one. I would say almost every restaurant that I know has a gun. Gofundme page to support their employees that are currently out of work But but there is one suggestion. I think you can do that. Actually costs money right now as as important as it is to support our employees and hourly employees. I think it's do make sure that you call your congressman and your senators to ensure that restaurants small businesses and people don't have the voice get her and you may not think that matters again but your local restaurant that you love so much needs to know that government is looking out for them so call the hotline switchboard. It's two zero two two two four three one to one and just tell them that they happen. Support this restaurant because the stimulus package is going to happen. I still don't know what's actually in it. But they have to fall through because if we don't take care of our employees in this time of Covert Nineteen I. I'm really scared about America in the world over because we don't want people to die we don't want people to feel scared and these are the people that make up our restaurants that make good for everybody. Oats wild import. We checked our does little diner around the corner from us very very small diner that we would eat at two or three times a week and they had a gofundme page. Emily sort of contacted them and was like. Hey what's going on with you guys? They said we go fund me page so we donated and then we got food from a restaurant. You know very well Jim Ladder. Yea we called in went in. It was so heartbreaking to go there you know. You're getting emotional. Going to the experience of it. Part of it is like you're going to wait. I hope there's a table. I hope it's going to be packed. We went it was emptied. The door was locked and let one person and I went and got food for the week. We spent we a lot of money just as we could eat missing it so much because we had just sorta cooked for ourselves for two weeks and just been eating the same exact thing and then getting this food felt like it felt like a miracle and she's the best That restaurant and that's exactly that like Jit. Ladas an institution and we're going to lose some of our favorite places and not just lose like people need to be ready that maybe your favorite restaurant or restaurants may not open up again and then there's a real reality. That's a more probable outcome. I don't know how many restaurants are going to survive and people are throwing numbers on seventy five percent off. I actually think it might be ninety percent of all restaurants if we don't get adequate aid we'll never open their doors because it's just impossible and I don't WanNa live in Los Angeles with Jim. Oughta now I mean either. Yeah we wouldn't be went over to this diner bias. We were retarded. They might be open for takeout into a fully closed. And I had to start. I was like dismayed. Displacement never open again. This might not the last time we ate. There might have been the last time we ate. Then we didn't even know it. I think we all take for granted like we want stuff now. We want it convenient. We want we want all that stuff and I think for too long. We've kind of not as a group. We have not been thinking about all the people that have busted their asses to give us the food that we like so good wakeup call for that a terrible way to do it but good Waco we've had we've all had I would say you know if you can do it trying to support your local restaurants at the very least you can call your congressman. We've all had so many amazing memories at restaurants you fall in love you've proposed to people you've broken up also fell in love and Andy's a little bit yeah. That was a restaurant in Chicago. Called Andy's that was like Persian food and that was our first date and we go by there every time we go back to. Chicago does so much so much of so many great memories associated with so many restaurants. I mean it's it's hard to fathom man. It's it's so tough to think about but There are restaurants that are doing delivery and that's a whole nother debate like restaurant tours and chefs owners have been presented real moral dilemma to close your doors And not get income so you might not be able to help out your employees or remain open to do delivery but expose workers to potential. You Know Kobe. Nineteen and that's a really tough dilemma. And I I. I don't blame anyone for doing any decision because it's not a good decision either way but you have to do what you have to do. And if you do order delivery I encourage people to tip very well Yeah like how an you know. Don't do your best not to order delivery sites. Call the restaurant up. Because delivery sites are taking thirty percent of the top line revenue of a restaurant and I just find that to be not right especially in this time right now so call the restaurants if you can and I know that a lot of restaurants are doing delivery the lines busy but unfortunately I don't have that stuff in front of you. I know one of the delivery services was going to waive those fees for the restaurants. I think I look it up. Yeah we'll look it up. I don't have enough information. Artists take a quick break here. We'll be right back. Hello I'm Harry Nelson. I'm the producer of this podcast. Please excuse the interruption but I would like to talk to you about different podcast and that show is today explained. Okay let's be real. There are a lot of Daily News. Shows out there on twenty twenty. But there's not one that's anything like today explained from box every day. The team picks and essential new story that defines the moment and then John Rama's forum sits down with some the world's best journalists academics and policymakers to help us understand it from corona virus. The twenty twenty election today explained really explains the news. All of it. Subscribe if you haven't already today explained for free right now and your favorite podcast APP to get new episodes automatically. Know back to the show what we did so you know. Obviously food is a big big on dates. All the stuff so what we did last week. Was We cooked at home? We got dressed up when we sat down and we had like date night at home and for us it was a little bit challenging because neither of us are like great cokes. Absolutely not great chef. This is the most we've cooked in a long time. If you wanted to talk to you and see you know. There are a lot of people who are sort of dealing with limited ingredients at home right now or they're intimidated by cooking. Do you have any general tips for people? How to sort of demystify? The process a little bit how to reuse ingredients. Yeah I mean. That's that's basically what I've been focusing on her while now as a home cook. 'cause I've recently never cooked at home until the birth of my sons had been cooking a lot at home and discover all these new tricks but first things I it's hard to get ingredients right now. It really is so you gotta make do and I think it makes you really appreciate what you had and I and I want people to remember that when we come out of this and we will to appreciate when things are going to be good again and and when you go out to dinner or make stuff at home and right now. I don't have exit home because I decided to blow them out for a big custer that I made a savory custard that I made for my family for breakfast and I'm feeding six adults and one baby so like it makes me like sort of freak out about trying to get enough food. I mean that's a weird thing to say in twenty twenty but I think it depends on what you have in your fridge but I think most people are have pasta. So that's an important thing. I think every fridge should try to have some type of cheese or Parmesan in because like even. If it's not like a fancy Parmesan it's still going to be good enough. Make a cut you a pet. Bay is one of the easiest dishes in the world. It really is and there's tons of recipes so I don't even have to tell you what the recipe but that was like a goto staple in terms of a chicken. I think stretching something out I always tried to make chicken soup. It's pretty easy in my opinion. I I'm saying it's pretty easy but trust me. I think it is because you put a chicken in a pot covered with water and you boil the hell out of and then you add some salt to taste and you can add some celery onions garlic. You wanted to make it more of a traditional chicken soup or you can add. She talking mushrooms and and noodles and soy sauce. If you wanted to make it a little bit more Asian and the other thing that I've been doing is using a lot of frozen foods a lot of frozen vegetables and and my microwave. I Cook with the microwave. A lot happy. My mom would be like so excited. She would make scrambled eggs in the microwave. Which I don't know that I would recommend you can actually make a pretty nice custard microwave for view. If you reduce the power of a Mike would do thirty percent. Keep it covered. You could actually make beautiful ex. Okay all right I hear you. I don't think you mom was reducing. The way that my mom was doing it was not turning out that way. Yeah we've been like so we've been cooking. You commented on this. I was so excited you commented on this. I basically made like Brioni. Which is my favorite dish. But I made it with cauliflower rice because we didn't have rice and also you know we were like. I'm just trying to find healthy versions of the things I love and obviously some people got upset at me for that but I also am also like we have a history of like high cholesterol and high blood pressure. My family's on trying to figure out I have both those things even though I watch what I eat. I exercise jacked. I just I'm trying to find versions of the food. I love that I grew up with that. I can sort of eat without having that sort of health thing be an issue and then I'd put Jalapeno peppers because that's what we had and someone was like. You didn't use like Real Chili's I'm like it's hard to get ingredients right now. We had cauliflower rice and we had Jalapenos so there you go and you can get the best advice you can give to your listeners. Exactly what you did. Screw the recipe. Make it delicious. You know. That's all that matters. And that's looked amazing. I bet it was delicious. Free and who cares if it's not authentic. We're in epidemic. I mean I mean I made a tomato sauce. I put it on instagram. And I have Barilla's pasta which isn't like a fancy pasta and I got a bunch of comments like oh guerrilla pasta and I was like it's all they had at the market. Screw you add chicken Bouillon to mayor sauce. People like in hall or a gas the that I would like file. Italian cuisine knows like I don't have Parmesan this is all. I have to add flavor to this my goal number one goal. Everyone's goal is exactly what you did. Have a memory of something you want and do your best to make it as delicious as possible and screw the rule book and it'd be cool if there's like ushered in a new trend when this is all over. This ushered in a new trend of of food. That's like all stuff that was born out of necessity from this. I think it'd be really cool. Yeah but that's actually what food has been to begin with almost all food. That's delicious worn out of necessity. Yeah and honestly that thing I made was really really good. I think about it. I've been thinking about it since then it was. It was really really good. You bring up an interesting point. I used to be different like when I was when I was a kid. I ate a lot of Pakistani food. I moved to America for me. Anyone anyone that tried to sort of change. That food was really upsetting to me right. I didn't like that I was thinking has to be a didn't like fusion food. I didn't like people making substitutions. I wanted to be exactly how it was but then over time I've learned obviously food. There's a lot of creativity to it and if people WANNA take different influences. Put them together as long as it tastes good. That's what matters it matters and it's and it's honestly kind of beautiful you creating a new thing out of these older things that's exactly and you guys the beautiful apple show and and and and and it's literally is like the same thing like my mom came to. America and she moved to Virginia in nineteen sixty nine got. I don't even know how she survived and she needed to make cream food. And there's no Asian supermarkets. So she improvised. You do the best you can with what you got. And that's just the way it's gotta be and authenticity is important to preserve culture and tradition but given the circumstances making delicious food in. This moment is more important than getting it. Perfect away that so I thought this while watching your episode about about fried free. You're talking about America Chinese food. Do you know. Have you ever had Pakistani Chinese food or Indian Chinese food? I have I unfortunately in the last this delicious we cut out a whole like segment of Indian Chinese food. Because it's amazing. How good. Yeah and that's what you know. That's what I though that was and it's different than what American Chinese food. Yeah different beautiful. What we call recall the Chinese food just like you call this Chinese food but it was always like Sweden Sour. Something was a big stable like beef with green chilies. Sixty five no. We didn't have that chicken corn soup. Everybody got chicken corn soup. You know what was interesting and I went to one of these kitchens. It's like the name was one of the most famous Chinese restaurants in Mumbai and I went to see what the staff was eating because like staff meal employees. There's always to me like the best meal in a restaurant at the cane customary never gets east and I saw them making like northern Indian food like on the board of China like. That's where a lot of the cooks were from or closer tiny think and they were Oh no no. I'm not trying to Vietnam and Southeast Asia. They were making a dare Indian food from that region with Chinese ingredients. That's so cool. Yeah that's exciting. I'm GonNa Pitch you the idea for the show I've had for a long time. Which is I want to do a travel cooking. Show where 'cause you sort of see like the influence of food as you go from like a Far East too like India Pakistan over to Africa. Then how sort of the rata type? Yeah like PIRATA is in so many different cultures like we have Samosas and then in Africa parts of Africa they have some boozers which is a very similar thing. So I want to trace the history of how these spices sort of went around and how it influenced all the food like you could see like Thai. Food is sort of like has some some elements in common with Chinese food some elements in common with Indian food. So I want to do a show at some point when I travel around tracing the whole history of spice trade. That'd be beautiful show and I think about it all the time and there are a lot of a main stories that you know. I think have only been told in academic settings and I think. Tv would be a great place for you to tell these stories. That'd be cited. I also say he pitches to me on our first date at Andy's talked about this on a hairstyle. Problems with follow through. I will get well. We'll thanks so much for talking to US man. This is really really helpful and your advice about cooking at home. It's so good. It's like whatever ingredients you have trying to make something good because I found like for me. I'm not a great cook at all. I used to cook a lot. I used to Pakistani food all the time and I didn't really measure stuff out. Sorta go by taste and things like that and sometimes it'd be great sometimes. It wasn't as great but I think that's part of the excitement for me. You're really getting creative with cooking. Which not everybody is for sure? I would put in like new different things I like this. Let's just see how it goes together and sometimes it would be a disaster. Sometimes you'd find something that was awesome. You know like I made French toast. I don't know how you feel about rosewater. Where do you stand? I think with French toast. I think that would be delicious. The sweetness a little bit of cinemanow cardamom. A little rosewater. I put a little bit of Cardamom rose water and French toast because those are like things that you know Pakistani desserts us and it's flavor in love that I never get to taste but that's the thing. Why would that be bad? That sounds amazing. It was it was very good so so. That's great advice. Just try and make something delicious from what you have get creative with what you have. Call Your Congressman Congressperson. Let them know and save the restaurant industry tip like hell and tip lake. Oh thank you thank you so much for talking to us and enjoy your time with your family. When you're getting a lot of law a lot be safe guys bye bye.

Emily sort America congressman Netflix Wi Andy Africa David Chang David Chicago Artur Dave Chang Asia US Jim Ladder Camila Johnny
Believe in your own greatness: Advice from Tim Cook, David Chang, Abby Wambach and more

Math & Magic: Stories from the Frontiers of Marketing

34:09 min | 7 months ago

Believe in your own greatness: Advice from Tim Cook, David Chang, Abby Wambach and more

"I'm Bob Pittman and here IHEART. We know that if you don't know your numbers, you don't know your business. In fact, that's the problem that net suite by Oracle has set out the saw. It's time to quit flying blind and unlike growth for your business with net sweet. Schedule! Your Free Demo Right now and receive your free guide, seven key strategies to grow your profits. Go to net sweet dot com slash math. That's net sweet dot com slash math. You're listening to math and magic a production of iheartradio. I'm Bob Pittman welcomed the math and magic stories from the frontiers in marketing. There's no question. The Corona virus has disrupted our natural way of life. This weekend is high school and college. Graduates around the country missed their traditional end of your celebrations. We iheart wanted to do something to mark the occasion, so he gathered some friends. Important leaders, creators, athletes and thinkers, and we asked them to give a personalized graduation address, and we took those speeches, and put them out as pie gas called commencement, and we broadcast the speeches on the radio. Radio as well was a small gesture, but felt good as a company to unite behind him, hearing from people like Abby Wambach David Chang, Bill Gates Mary J. Blige Eli Manning and Katie couric well, it was inspiring. The words are meaningful not just to graduate, but to anyone taking on the world, so for today's episode thought I pick up you inspiring lessons. I heard and commencement life lessons that can be applied to marketing and business, starting some advice from X. Alphabets Moonshot factory, and it comes from the Captain Moon shots himself, Astro Teller. For as long as I can remember. I've wanted to create an invention machine. Not An actual physical machine, but a place where groups of passionate talented people can throw themselves unleashed an unfiltered at the problems they care about most and emerge with radical solutions that are ten times better than anything. That's been possible before. I've always imagined such a place at the love. Child of nineteen sixties, NASA and Willy. WONKA's chocolate factory. I've been trying various iterations of this since I was in my twenties and I'm now ten years into building a moonshot factory. A place where we bring the audacity and. Them embodied by the space race to inventing in launching technologies that could help the world's most pressing problems. Problems like food scarcity internet connectivity in clean energy. Born Google X. now, just ex. We've created things like self driving cars, delivery drones, and barely the healthcare arm of alphabet. What bothers me is? The X. shouldn't be the only moonshot factory. We need more many more, not just big formal moonshot factories. We need millions more people waking up day. More creative, more brave. Urgent to find tech solutions to the world's biggest problems, I know there's lots of intelligence desire in resources being invested already. No one gets up. Monday. Morning saying this week I'm going to make a grandma progress. And yet that is almost exclusively. What happens and it doesn't need to be that way. We are all superheroes. The ability and aspiration is hair, even if it's buried deep in some of us, what's holding us back? As individuals and organizations is the strong gravitational pull towards conventional ways of thinking and behaving. Most of us have been conditioned by the environment around us not to fail not to take risks not to make anyone uncomfortable especially, if that person is your boss, so most of US ended up being too cautious, too Afraid Rock, the status quo, or make something up, and the irony is, it works the other way around. The most powerful and painful epiphany of my life was to stop hiding my inner Weirdo you don't get joy power money a sense of purpose whatever you crave by protecting yourself. You get those things and you protect yourself best by unleashing yourself. Everyone thinks it's someone else's job to come up with the weird new ideas and take big risks. Being companies think radical thinking is for startups. Startup, say it's the big guys who have all the resources. Universities do great research, but aren't set up to build real world solutions. Governments get mired in short term problems and there you have it suddenly. It's no one's job even when it should be everyone's job to help solve the problems of our time. I'm forty nine I've had to create a special brand for myself is a useful crazy person, because I'm supposed to know better so I need air cover for saying things that aren't normal. Your ideas are unfettered. Your perspectives are fresh and you're being young. Gives you air cover for throwing out. Crazy ideas, so go for it. Let them rip. You have another big advantage. You don't already know the answers and unlike the experts, you know you don't know the answers. There are still lots of jobs in which experience says a ton of time and hassle, but when the answers to current problems are far over the horizon, and all the rules have suddenly changed like we've just seen the experts believe they know the solution and just have to implement. It is why they will fail. Experimenting iterating and learning. Is the only way forward and doing that is a lot easier with your advantage. You can admit ahead of time. You don't have the solution upfront. For. Extremely complex problems like the world is facing today. There are no answers. There is no playbook. I! Love the Astros. Says about embracing your inner Weirdo. It's advice. We've heard on this program a lot whether it was shaggy talking about tackling music in a new way for Scott Hagedorn talking about new ways looking at data or even David Solomon the CEO Goldman Sachs talking about embracing his hobby as a DJ in his free time speaking of David in his commencement speech, he shared a lesson about time a commodity. You can't make more off. Here's how he learned to make the most of it. I've worked on. Wall Street for over three decades. Our work involves at times array of valuable commodities stock spots gold silver oil. You name it. But even a beggar. We'll tell you the most precious commodity of all time. No matter how smart and creative you may be, you cannot create more time and once you've spended. There's no way to get back. One of the great lessons my father taught me was the value of time and more important how to be a good steward of this finite commodity. I was a teenager frustrated that I couldn't fit into my schedule. Everything that I needed wanted to get done. Academic sports friends rest of high school life. So my father had me go through an exercise I'll never forget. With simple printed calendar, he had me right in each days. What I needed to get done. Including eating and sleeping and how long I thought I needed to do it. I protested of course, but when I was done, I realized that I still hadn't filled my day. There was more time. If I spent it wisely. Gradually learn to be very intentional with my time how I spent it. What I wasn't willing to give up a budget my time a lot tighter in the process discovered more of it. We're time to get things done to explore new things to do. What really mattered to me? To this day I make sure that even with a jam packed schedule of a CEO I make time outside my day to day to be with people from different industries and with different backgrounds. Time spent fostering relationships with diverse people who enrich my thinking. And Challenge. My assumptions makes life a whole lot more interesting. It also makes me a better person and in turn a better, CEO. I, hope you'll be a good steward of the gift of time invested wisely and yourself and others. With people who think differently than you do people you love. People who love you? Some who challenge you? And more than a few believe in you. As, we looked on social media for themes to cover. Confidence is one thing that always comes up. How do you build it for yourself? But also how do you infuse it in your team's culture? Abby. Wambach has bought sombat as two time Olympic gold, medalist and fiba women's World Cup champion. She describes the moment she helped secure the World Cup Championship. And why believe in yourself is just as important as believing in the greatness of your team. I see my teammates running toward me from every direction on the field and from the bench they're screaming and laughing and hugging I five in chest, bumping, and as they rush towards me, each of their amazed faces asking. Did we just do this? Did we just save our World Cup life in the last second? What the Hell just happened! What happened? Is that we believed. What happened. Is that we never stopped believing. There's a chance that the national teams loyal Fan Club. The American outlaws cheer from the stands. It has become the life blood pumping through our national teams veins. It goes like this. I I believe. I believe that we. I believe that we will win I believe that we would win. I believe that we will win. Graduates as you step out into an uncertain world. I WanNa tell you why this chant should become the life blood pumping through your veins to. I, believe. You must believe in the I. You must believe in yourself that world. Cup played doesn't happen if each player doesn't step up and claimed her specific power and skill to deliver the impossible. Christie Krieger Carly Pino each had to believe she was good enough and ready to execute her part within the broader play. None of those women could alone control the ultimate outcome of the game, but each was hell bent on controlling what she could control her part her moment her belief. Collective success is determined by individual accountability. The, greatest teams are made up of individual players who each relentlessly believe in their own greatness. Graduates in this moment. As you step out into the world. You don't know what fields you'll be on how high the stakes may be, but you can know this for sure. There is a part out there that only you can play. When the ball come see you and it will. You will have to decide that you're good enough. No one else can decide that for you. Be Bold be audacious. Believe in yourself especially when no one else does. And when the ball does, come to you when it's your turn to make a difference show up like our collective future depends on you because it does. I. I believe. I believe that we. Must believe in the we. Speaking of Teams Chef David. Chang has been a star in the restaurant scene for a while. Now he cut his teeth with legendary Momofuku, and he's now an author and TV personalities well, but in speech to young graduates. He made it clear that one of the biggest lessons he learned along the way is it isn't always about you. Here's how he learned to take the focus off himself and think about his team's happiness. Because I'm a chef now you might think that things collect when I wound up in cooking school at twenty two, but that would be incorrect I did have a good feeling about cooking, but I was so mediocre in fact, I was just bad that one of my classmates actually quit the program because of my lack of talent. I'm not kidding. They told her that I was going to be a partner for one semester and that she couldn't switch. So, she decided to drop out than be my partner. I stayed at school mostly because I had exhausted all other options. It's crazy thing, but by mid twenties I had worked so many jobs and tried so many things I a good chunk of the world to yet. I was convinced that was all the waste I looked at. My friends could not believe how far ahead of me they were. Maybe, some of you know that feeling and if you don't I'll tell you the same thing. Life Begins Rider about where you are right now. Conventional Wisdom says that college at the time to experiment. But now is when you can truly accumulate data to your advantage. This is the moment in your lives to be selfish, so use it and be smart about welcome. All the heartache disorientation enjoy that you can most of all lean into situations that might lead to mistakes. You have to taste failure so much. And so early, so you know how to deal with it later on when the stakes are higher. On Sundays may feel like. It's just too damn hard like it's not worth climbing back up that mountain again, but you have to keep going. It's as simple as this honor your time here, but just as I. Urge you to look inward to find yourself your voice and your purpose. I want to tell you that conviction can also be dangerous or at least it was for me. Five or so years into Momofuku. The company gone from being an army of one into employing over one hundred people. Now we have several hundred and they were all unhappy. The problem was me. I was miserable to work for in my fanatical quest. I was blind to those around me and their needs in my little world all matter what was good for me? This somehow had an immediately affected the quality of our work, but that luck didn't last forever not only did our magic spark dim I was more alone than when I graduated college. So, I want to leave you with greatest piece of knowledge. I've gained so far an idea. We should all remind ourselves in times like these. It's not about you. Going to be happiest in my opinion when you try to be selfless. Love how David evolved to think about his employees, but his theme of perseverance and grit struck a chord with me to, and it's a theme. I heard Chris Broussard's speeches. Well, we'll hear more from him Tim Cook and more after this break. I'm Bob Pittman, hero, math and magic. We understand that if you don't know your numbers, you don't Know Your Business and the question for any business owner out there the one that might keep you up at night second guessing your decisions is. Are you confident that you've got the right numbers at your fingertips? Every business decision ultimately turns to numbers. You can't make the right evaluations and the right decisions if you have the wrong numbers, or if it takes too long to get them. In fact, that's the problem that net suite by Oracle has set out to salt. Net Suite by Oracle is the world's number one cloud business system, but the full picture of your finances in one place and real time. Right from your phone or your desktop, so there's no more guessing no more worrying that what you don't know could hurt your business. Nets week gives you the visibility and control. You need to grow with confidence without nets. We disliked driving your car, no speedometer fuel gauge or like flying a plane with no instruments and as a pilot. It's impossible to fly an airplane by the CD your, pants. But, with net sweet, it's night and day difference all of a sudden you can see everything that matters and that unlocked serious growth. Did you know that net sweet was the world's first cloud business system after twenty years over eighteen thousand companies? That's right. Eighteen thousand companies run their businesses. Annette's we that's because nets. Customers grow three times faster than the S. and p. five hundred, and so can you. You so go right now to schedule. Your Free Demo and receive your Free Guide, seven key strategies to grow your profits at net sweet dot com slash math. It's time to quit flying blind, and unlike growth for your business with nets sweet. Remember you can set up your. Free Demo and get your free guide today at net sweet dot com slash map. That's net, sweet dot com slash math. IHEART radio and state farm know that the graduation stage is the first of many, and while grads may not be walking across one this year. They can get the send off. They've always dreamed of with our new podcast commencement, featuring inspiring speeches from the biggest names like John Legend. I'm honored to have the chance to speak to to share in this special moment, Katie couric. You'll need some very important life skills to move forward. Perhaps the most important one is resilience Chelsea handler. Dare to do things that scare you if you can embrace. Embrace, the unknown and fully jump into what life has to offer you. There will be much to celebrate and much to enjoy, and Kenya reflect on the work you've done and celebrate moving into your new phase. These iconic names all coming together to celebrate you. The class of twenty twenty listened iheartradio's new podcast commencement brought to you by state farm speeches are now available on iheartradio, APP, or wherever you get your podcasts and remember state farm will be there for this stage and every stage after like a good neighbor. State farm is there. Welcome back to math and magic where we're highlighting some of the best and most inspiring speeches from this week's commencement by guest, Chris Broussard is a successful sports broadcaster Fox sports, one and Fox sports radio, but that wasn't always the case. He advanced career through sheer determination, grit and long hours. He attributes to success to never having a sense of entitlement. Even if that meant taking unpaid jobs take a listen. Do not have a sense of entitlement. This business doesn't. Oh, you anything I. don't care what school you went to i. don't care what your grade point average was i. don't care how highly you think of yourself. It doesn't owe you anything. Your mentality has got to be that. I've got to earn every single promotion or advancement that I get. I'll share with you. When I first started doing national television. Now I've been in the New York. Air's writer for the New York Times and done some local TV, but ESPN was starting a television show called cold pizza. Now it's called I take. And the show was as seven am eastern time and they were asking local riders into New York. To come into their studio early in the morning to do his for the show, they weren't paying a thing and they were putting you in a hotel overnight, so they would pick you up early in the morning, and then you would do do the show. I the went so far as to when I was on the west coast, covering Kobe Bryant in the against the San Antonio Spurs in the Western Conference Finals Two thousand four that I would be on cold pizza at four am Pacific Time so I'm getting up at two thirty in the morning to go do this show for free no money. And I had other writers in the New York area say I can't believe you doing that. How desperate are you to be on television? They're not paying you anything and you're going on it for you. I I say I told him you gotTA. Give me a hotel room or I'm not doing your show. You better. Pay Me some money, or I'm not doing. Well now I do national television and radio career, and some of these guys are as far as they like to be. In their careers I didn't have a sense of entitlement. I figured this could help advance my career I can do it. I will do it, and now I get paid amounts of money to do television and radio, whereas then I wasn't getting anything. Don't think that you're entitled to a darn thing in this business or any business for that matter whatever field of endeavor you choose to go into. Chris like so many of our other commencement speakers acknowledged importance of putting in the work, but there's another factor the CEO of Apple Tim Cook wanted us to consider as he's been reading about Lincoln. He's been thinking about how important it is to race into uncertainty here. He is talking about the courage. You'll need in this time and the success that can result from. Not being able to leave the house leaves you with a lot of odd gaps of time to fill. I've been trying to use them to read and I keep coming back to Abraham Lincoln. I'd recommend it to anyone who wants to put these times into perspective. You'll be shocked at how clever and funny and a life is thinking still, Liz, how reserved in humble man managed in noisy times to call others to hope. It's also hard to imagine someone more defined by their circumstances. Lincoln found his country on fire and chose to run into the flames, and he gave everything he had to bring his people chaotic and squabbling fundamentally flawed yet fundamentally good along with him. The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present, he said. The occasion is piled high with difficulty, and we must rise with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew we must disin- thrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country. Graduates. Your case is new. For you, the old dogmas had never been an option. You don't have the luxury of being enthralled you enter a world of difficulty with open is tasked with writing story that is not necessarily of your choosing, but is still entirely yours. You promised this day. Many of you had to fight hard to earn it. Now, it's yours think a new. Act A new bill that better future than the one you thought was certain and in a fearful time. Call us once again to hope. Courage is also something I heard. In CNN Miller speech to Seattle, never went to college, but that didn't stop her. From becoming a successful actor, designer and producer and her speech, she talks about the importance of pushing away feelings of materiality. She also talks about standing up for what you believe in and creating a culture that advances your standards, not the world and her case that having the conviction to walk away from a role she was passionate about. My industry is an inspiring one, but it is not always been a place where women are respected equally with their male counterparts. This is a global issue. We still live in rampantly patriarchal society. It is essential that women. We cultivate the sense of worth we deserve to feel. I know it's hot and will though the world is beginning to shift their deep rooted prejudices that exist around gender. Women. Represent over half the population. It is essential that the places you work in resemble that statistic. Be Great leaders. Be The generation to really fight for equality. If you feel superior, get yourself in check. Respect the differences between men and women, people of Color the Lgbtq community and value the contribution of everyone to a workspace. If you start a company that company reflect the world as it is. We need leaders especially in moment. Who Do not marginalize who listen. WHO K Be Those leaders. A while ago, I turn down a project. That I was passionate about when I learned. The my male co star was going to be paid more than double. The salary I had been offered. I was forced to make a concession between my dignity and self worth and a role. I loved I was being pressured to accept a value of myself. Which I knew was wrong. And will be it with real difficulty, self judgment, and even shame I walked away from that pot. And that change something in me. It turned out to be a pivotal moment in my life, not because I took the pope because I didn't. And at that moment my worth was exactly the value I placed in myself. I, guess what I'm saying his. Stand up for yourself. Stand up, others. Stand up before you know deep down is fair. So much success comes down to a sense of southwest. Cultivate. That strength is best you can. Don't value yourself based upon the responses you get from other people some imagine perception of who you might be. And don't give yourself away to others. Hold on tight. This is your life and your experience. You might know Guy Rose's voice from how built this or the Ted Radio Hour? I liked the speech wasn't about blind optimism, but rather was about looking for opportunities in this time as difficult as things are right now, the world is full of opportunities. Things just waiting to be changed and after hearing his speech. Thank, you might agree. Not GonNa. Tell you something that may sound counterintuitive. Smile. Open your eyes look out and understand this. You are leaping into what might be the greatest moment of possibility in modern human history. Now before I get too deep into this. I want to explain what I mean by possibility. Isn't wild-eyed optimism or a belief that history is an inevitable march towards progress. That's rubbish. Possibility allows for a whole range of outcomes, massive failure regression loss. But possibility also allows for growth and resilience and recovery, and most importantly the possibility to dream, and then to realize a better way. Possibility in May of two thousand twenty is an opportunity to re imagine, and then to remake the world. And to do this. You're going to have to take big swings swings for the fences swings that will occasionally be home runs, but most of the time we'll be strikeouts. But if you take those swings right now, not in five years or ten years, but right now you will start to remake are very very challenging world. Is Some of you may know of interviewed. Thousands of some of the most inspiring people on the planet, and some of them are swinging for the fences, but they need you to join them. Pat Brown. He was a bow chemistry Professor Stanford he understood that livestock production accounts for a significant amount of greenhouse gas emissions, so he started impossible foods with the goal of figuring out how to make meet real meat that bleeds in sizzles from plant proteins. He's already succeeding, and if he finishes the job, it could cut carbon emissions by twenty to twenty five percent. Pat Brown didn't wait for others to make a change he did. Jimmy Wales wanted everyone on earth have the same access to knowledge that he did, so he created wikipedia as an open source online encyclopedia that functions as a nonprofit available to anyone anywhere anytime. He never really made any money off Wikipedia, even though it's one of the most visited websites on the planet. Jimmy Wales didn't wait for others to make a change he did. Alice waters started a farm to table. Restaurant called Chez Panisse in the early nineteen seventies in Berkeley. But she soon started to see how industrial farming and agriculture were polluting rivers damaging the environment, so alice started a movement, called the edible schoolyard and today. Thousands of schools across America are growing their vegetables in harmony with nature. Now it's not gonNA change the entire world today, but it's start alice waters didn't wait for others to make a change. She did it herself. Alicia Garza. Opel Patrisse cullors. They lived and breathed injustice. They didn't wait for permission. They inspired black lives matter. Toronto Burke knew intimately about the silence of sexual assault victims. She didn't wait for permission. She wrote two words that changed the world. Me To. Gratitude and Vanessa. Still. Kids ignited a movement of thousands of young people demanding climate justice. They didn't wait. They didn't ask for permission. Now if you walk around San Francisco today. You'll see ads for startups that will deliver cannabis to your home through a sophisticated APP. You'll see ads for better work productivity software. One startup even raised almost four hundred million dollars to build robots to make pizzas. We now have another new media company. This one raised more than a billion dollars all with the goal of creating ten minute video clips to keep you glued to your iphone while you wait in line at the grocery store. And look people will make money off of these ideas, and that's fine, but if you really want to take advantage of this incredible moment in history, no this you can make it happen by deciding to be more like Pat, Brown or Alice waters or Toronto Burke or Gretchen Berg. Don't wait. Everything and anything is possible coming out of this crisis. Can you use your energy? Your youth, your boldness to take a big swing for the fences to answer these questions. I think you know the answer. So. We need you to spend the summer building a plan. You are the jet is we have been waiting for? We need you to take this mission. There may never be an opportunity like this one again in your lifetime, and it's okay to feel scared. This is a hard time. But I promise you. You have been given a gift. Now right now it's your time to run the world. Care The keys. In. Don't look back and one more thing. May the force be with you. That's it for this week's math and magic the speeches I drew from barely skim the surface from General Stanley McChrystal to Katie Corey Ryan seacrest to Hillary Clinton Halsey to bill, Melinda. We've got fifty plus inspiring commencement speeches waiting for you on the iheartradio APP or wherever you get your podcast. Go check him out. That's commencement speeches for the class of twenty twenty until next time I'm Bob Pittman and thanks for listening. That's it for today's episode. Thanks so much for listening to math and magic a production of IHEART radio. The show is hosted by Bob Pittman special. Thanks to sue Schillinger for booking. Wrangling are wonderful talent, which is no small feat Nikki tour for pulling research bill plaques and Michael as our for their recording. Help our editor at Ryan Murdoch and of course gale. Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel, mango and everyone who helped. Bring this show to your ears until next time. Are you confident? You've got the right numbers at your fingertips. I'm Bob Pittman I'm here to tell you that. Serious entrepreneurs and finance teams run that suite by Oracle the world's number one cloud business system. It's time to quit flying blind, and unlike growth for your business with sweet schedule Your Free Demo right now and receive your free guide seven key strategies to grow your profits go two net sweet dot com slash math. That's net, sweet dot com slash math.

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No-Fan NBA Games & 2020 Cooking Trends With Joe House and David Chang | The Bill Simmons Podcast

The Bill Simmons Podcast

1:47:40 hr | 9 months ago

No-Fan NBA Games & 2020 Cooking Trends With Joe House and David Chang | The Bill Simmons Podcast

"Tonight's episode the BS podcast on the ringer. Podcast network brought to you by Ziprecruiter there the place that has the tools to make hiring more efficient and more effective like some of the. Great Basketball Teams. We have these days. It's the smartest way to hire. The tech doesn't stop just with their powerful technology. Skinny Thousand Resumes Find People. The right experience for your jobs. It keeps going. If finds out what candidates you like and invites more to apply so effective for two five import as opposed to ziprecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day. Try It for free at ZIPRECRUITER DOT com slash be ass. Meanwhile two coves believes that Western goods should be accessible to anyone and everyone cowboy boots handmade with high quality full grain leathers by world class. Bootmaker Kyle is wearing them right now. He walked in with like a special streto. Manos going on shipping returns exchanges. Free and easy do kyle did today get yourself a pair of kovas cowboy boots at Kovas dot com slash. Best E. C. O. V. A. S. DOT COM SLASH BS. If you love the watchable we put up one Sunday about contagion which had turned into a disturbing and fascinating rewatch given everything. That's going on right now. We are also putting up godfather three on Wednesday night so be ready for that one godfather three seen as a bust it's definitely a worthy installment of the flawed re watchable series. That we're doing right now. Not as bad as I remembered in a Lotta ways actually has some really good moments. It was a worthy rewatch. You can guess what the flaws in boys at a flaw but we talk about that. C can check that out coming up. We're in talk to Joe House for a little bit about everything going on right now with the corona virus and sports and everything else. And then David Chang my old friend. Who HOSTS RINGER PODCAST here? On the Ringer podcast network. He's talking about his new Netflix. Show but we were talking about cooking trends it it gets super weird. Got Weird Meta Kyle loves when it gets weird. That's why they your is when it gets super weird in the room. This one gets weird in a good way So that's all coming up. I are friends from all right. Joe House is on the line having talked to him in a while. I haven't talked to him about all the stuff that's happened in the last two. Plus weeks here. I think we're heading toward a day. That might even be Wednesday but I think it will probably be this week when the NBA announces that They're not gonNA have fans in the arenas for these games. I think there have been slowly paving the way for this announcement I with the media stuff. Then you saw Lebron really came out it was like I'm that if there's no fans in the plant then he backtracked that big time today and was like oh I actually didn't understand. I didn't realize they meant NBA Games in the arenas of no fan. So whatever whatever he did I think it's all leading to know fans in the arenas and I gotTa Say. I don't think it's the worst idea house. What do you think of course? It's not the worst idea. It's fine like we. We will all manage to continue to live our lives Successfully and hopefully corona virus free if all of us our engaging in in behavior that Minimizes social contact for a little while so rackets just sit at home and watch the Games with nobody there? That's fine I could. I'm happy to be home. I'm happy to watch the game. The MAPPI that they're still playing the games. Yeah talked to my dad who went to assault the game on Friday and the guy I guess behind was coughing and every time this person coughs that everybody kind of stiffened in my dad's row and it's like when it starts getting to that point where you know and people are afraid to touch and my dad's like everybody's being so careful not to shake hands and duo bombs and then you go to the bathroom and there's drunk people pissing all over the place and I think probably putting twenty thousand people together for any reason isn't a great idea. Now I am in the way way way better to be cautious and say after the fact. I'm and we've probably went a little overboard there then. Not Be cautious enough so I I'm good with all this but at the same time we're getting really close to the reality now of watching sports that we love with no fans and fans not being able to go to games and south by southwest got cancelled last week and the Ivy League tournament cancelled today. Colleges are sending home sending people home it is like the manifestation of where things have been headed the last twenty years where everybody is at home that interacting. Now we're actually going to be living it out. It seems like us. That's I mean you're you're right. We are all very well versed in living a life on screen some combination of computer screen phone screen television screen. I will say the thing that I'm wondering about is what about like just going out to get something to eat. Are you going to do that? Like if you're not gonna go to a thing where there's going to be a thousand people and that seems to be the bright line that experts are drawing. Let's not have any community gatherings of that size. I can live perfectly happy and comfortably if I have my screens and the Internet works the Wifi good to go and I'm allowed to go up the street to Popeye's that's my standard well. It is funny that we're drawing Stan. Drawing lines in this right like well if I go to this game you know. Maybe that's a bad idea. I could I could get sick here but I'm GonNa stay home but then I'll order post mates and then this random guy shows up at my house. I have no idea who is his touched bag with my food. I'm taking the bag from him like it's at some point there's a line and I don't know what the line is aware but it does seem like congregating. Large groups of people is probably not a great idea until we can contain this. What happened with in the speed that everything spread and how scary that was. A now people you know basically the whole country The Empty Arenas thing you know. It's going to be surreal to watch. You know everybody that people like us our age. You're like well. This is what the what it was like to watch basketball in the early eighties. You see like a pacers game or nets game and there is nobody there. That's you see the pictures from back then. And there's nobody in the background. I can't imagine how it's GonNa Affect the energy of the Games and the players themselves because basically we're talking about pickup giant stadium which I've been looking at the play at Staples Center a couple other and be arenas when there's nobody there and it's just big cavernous the site perceptions where 'cause there's nobody in the seats and I guess that's just what we're going to have but again. I think this is what they should do. And I think this is where this is leading but when you talk about March madness now we're talking about the NCAA. Now we're talking about a governing body that has always prioritize money over any other rational decision right. It's like what is the highest cash figure. We can get. Who Can we exploit? What what what ways can we just maximize profits at all times and now now? Potentially we'd be canceling the final four or having an empty stadium would apps march what happens with people flying to different locations and things like that it would seem like if the NBA was going to cancel out you know fans coming to arenas would seem like March madness should follow that house are you do. Bs that they would actually do that. Well I don't think that they're going to have the opportunity to make the decision because I think State and local officials will be making that decision for them. They think I saw in today's news feed that the governor of Ohio was already either putting a moratorium or strongly strongly strongly recommending against gatherings of more than two thousand people and You know they're they're a bunch of NC double A. Tournament stuff. I think like the what do they call the first four. There's a couple of games yet. There's there's definitely suspects to be happening in Ohio and for House. It's called the Shitty for before he hits that's the only a holy cross. Ncwa win in the last fifty years. So let let's listen this eighty four. We actually have he asked we had. We won a game like five years ago. It was one third as many games as one this year and the entire season when we went three and twenty nine so it was a great memory Interrupting you I did. Yeah well but I think you know the NC Double A. Will be able to say. Look we respect the decision of the governors of these states that say yeah? We're not GonNa let you come in here and have twenty thousand people. I expected them to still play the Games And for like parents and so forth to be permitted but maybe like you know the stands have three hundred or four hundred people in them At most like some school officials some parents and and the players and my guess would be that they're going to try and go forward with the Games and people pretending their parents so they could be at the game. I mean I would do that. You know. There's there's all these other dominoes falling from this beyond the whole. What happens if there are no fans that these games and all the conversations? Everyone's have him but first Bryan Curtis word about with these new media things that have been implemented already where you know they're trying to limit as much contact as possible to in the media and the players which basically means eliminating any sort of access the media has whether that becomes the new norm once. That's in place Dan. It never goes back to normal because you know like for instance two thousand eight writers strike that Happened twelve years ago once. That strike was in place. Hollywood reset how they do pilot season and before they were buying you know dozens and dozens of pilots and then just throwing shade against the wall and hoping a couple of stuck when they had to Redo the whole concept pilots and because of writers strike and they had less shows they were like await we were ordering too many shows and then it was just never the same than ever ordered that many shows again. I wonder what sports once we have. This media thing him in place and this is what Brian laid out. And I thought it was a great angle Will there's just become where we are and well? I think we ever again. I haven't had the chance to read Brian's piece yet but with respect to the observation it does seem like there could be a sensible and efficient way to do post game sports interviewing that doesn't have the journalist crammed into a corridor or crammed on the you know into the entrance way of locker room like if this has the effect of basically like creating every team needs to come up with a space where the the journalists can sit and ask their questions and the players and coaches can go to a podium and be ten or twelve feet away and as a. Smidge more organized. That sounds kind of sensible to me. The access is still crucial though. Because we still as fans and and you know the the publications that that have incentive to report on what happened. We still want to know what guys have to say you guys and girls about their the games and the same from the coaches. So I don't think the access is going away. It's just going to change the dynamic and I it seems like that. Make sense honestly. Well we have it in the NBA playoffs right. That's who they sit at a at a table able with with chairs. Mild THING IS I. Don't I don't feel like we're getting a ton out of the access that at least we can see. I think a lot of it happens with the The one on one stuff and you know sneak into the side and things like that. That's the part that the good journalists are gonNA lose. I just wonder so much of the stuff is spin now. And there's eat especially with sports and especially with the bigger athletes. I wonder what kind of stuff we're actually getting from them. Anyway you know an in what are what are we actually losing compared to like. When I'm just saying like in the seventies when we were growing up in you read the newspaper that was really the only way to know what was going on with your team you know. Now I feel like we're so much more connected to the players to the sports. The teams day to day. We have a real feel for what's going on and those kind of moments just don't don't seem to have the same weight that day nineteen seventy-eight you still get guys And and coaches. Who in the moment is still in the kind of the heat of the moment? Have THE DISAPPOINTMENT. The tastes the bad taste in their mouth. That sometimes will you know gay deliver. Something happens frequently enough that I think there's still value I. I'm interested in seeing you know Disappointed coach acts throw player. Y under the bench like true the the entirety of of Zach Levine Post game commentary on Boylan. This year. That all by itself is worth. Yo folks going into the locker room or wherever it. Is that the bolt. Have people meet to hear what the Levin has to say after Games true? I think the athletes are so much more careful now because a lot of times. They're just getting videotape by somebody's phone and if they whatever they say can be on twitter and twenty seconds you know and so. I think there's a lot more tap dancing. The maybe we stab the stuff from the seventies and eighties is incredible the candor that guys talked with back then so anyway. I think that's GonNa be one thing that reset so hopefully when When we get this thing under control God knows when that's going to be the other thing it having allow people talk about this a friend of mine who were re as payments. Tell me about it recently. Like the whole concept of just televising sporting events where you have hundreds of people you have broadcast teams flying in for the Games if that turns out. Maybe that can't happen anymore. Then they would have to use people that were on the ground in the Games you know. I think there's a creativity level that's going to have to go way up. I don't think it's a situation where you know Mike Breen and Jeff Van. Gundy are just going to be flying around from city to city. I I don't need that if this deteriorates and it feels like it's going to keep deteriorating The whole concept of how this stuff is covered will will change obviously odd. This stuff is small. Potatoes compared to the potential pandemic. We have right right right well. That's we're just talking about some of the curious impacts in the permutations of this. I mean. Obviously we're not making light of any of the serious nature of The challenge that the pandemic represents but like we. I think that would be cool if you use the local broadcast teams in the local broadcast infrastructure. Every city every major city that has a professional basketball for instance can host college basketball and there are plenty of broadcasters in each city for for both college teams and and Proteins. I think the infrastructure there they just you. You mentioned the used word creativity. They're going to have to get creative. And deploy those folks and I mean there's definitely a way to do it my question to you speaking of things that. I'm curious about our we. GonNa Gamble on this. How am I going to game on anti crowds like his home? Court advantage gone game. Yeah well first of all this is all new territory no matter what no matter what happens this is something we've never experienced before as fans and then it's like do the she. We've been thinking this way that that's a part we're set unite. I and I'm sure a slew people listening this. We're so conditioned to the psycho of sports which is something. Brian Phillips wrote about for the ring this week where it's just like oh it's march. March madness is coming. Hey the masters around the corner hey. Mba Playoffs is coming and we just kind of move from thing to thing and that's what we love. That's why we follow this stuff and now that this is not only being threatened but you know is in real jeopardy of of of just going away for God knows how long or being completely changed in a way that we can recognize for us to talk to wonder what that's GonNa feel like. I don't feel like that's narcissistic. I'm sure some people would but it's hard not to think about this stuff. Sports is a huge part of my life of yours and it's going to change all decided out of nowhere. We're fifty years old both of us and it's just going to be completely different. What's I kind of feel like I don't know If if there's no sports on TV. And I'm not coming downtown to my job Then I'm going to be at the driving range so my golf game is going to get Veggie really good to see. She's going to be driving my handicap well to work work on my handicap while you brought up golf of nervous to bring this up. Uh-huh the Masters Yeah April. It's like April tenth yet ninth Tenth Eleventh Twelfth Stretch. I would say not. Realistic people will be going out of their way to WANNA fly in to Georgia and connecting different fights and things like that the amount of people there will be the lowest ever. The question is what if there are? No people would if it's just all these golfers playing just with their caddies and like you know spouses in that said An. It's an empty Augusta. I think that would be one of the most eerie weekends in the history of television. Empty Augusta I. I'm surprised to hear you say that I think for the most part it will not be that dissimilar from how we consume golf because golf already is quiet for the vast majority of broadcast. Excellence when there's a big when somebody makes a big shot that would be the that's all right the roar on sixteen and it's just not there and there's nobody around the green. It's like every battles board digi either way. That's I mean it's it's like the Apocalyptic movies that that You Know Arba sort I I don't think that there was. There is a recent example of this In Two thousand twelve. I think there is a tournament out at Congressional Country Club here in Washington. Dc and the night there was this weather phenomena. Have you ever heard of a direct show? Now you're not familiar the Dorito now it sounds like a Renzo fast food. It IS A. I'm going to botch this. But at the at the guts of it. It's a windstorm. It travel super fast and has with a super high power high energy wind and it kind of behaves almost like a like a tornado. But it across. It's a weather front so there was a director that move from Chicago to Washington. Dc back. And I think it was two thousand twelve and the tournament that was occurring in Washington at the time. It congressional the the the retro took down a slew of trees and they couldn't get all of the tree debris out of the way to they could get it enough off the course to permit the the guys to go play but they couldn't get enough to permit patrons spectators to onto the grounds that they couldn't ensure the safety so they didn't let anybody on and the guys played the the rouse with no fans. The the and I it was at least one round. I don't remember if it was two rounds And it was just a quiet golf round on television great for a nap. If that's if you're looking for a Saturday afternoon nap well. I've certainly played a few Radzi golf without fans in my day. And Yeah and it's it's very. It's very peaceful for the Golfer Right. I wonder I read that. Somebody shoot like fifty nine years. Somebody might like a fifty nine with the with the no fans. I don't think the fans are the thing that makes golfers anxious one way or the other. I mean you know. It's the pressure of the situation. Well has this is. I don't know I've had this podcast thirteen years. This is certainly the strangest the most surreal thing. That's happened since since Since launch podcast we was at six years before or six years after nine. Eleven happened I certainly hope we don't remember all of this the way that I think we remember nine eleven but it's really scary and you know I think we're heading toward a situation where kids are. GonNa be home from school I don't know what happens to youth. Sports that's another thing that You know that's been that slip through the cracks a little bit here where you know. My daughter has had tournament last week and she has no the tournament. This weekend were on the sidelines. After goals you know kind of touching elbows the parrots and not the and then. Her team scored the winning goal on Sunday with three minutes. After all like high fiving into like it's hard to not be a human being you know like you're GonNa Forget you're gonNA laugh under every iteration though. I think that's fine. I don't I haven't seen any of the public health experts. Come out and say you can't go see ten people. You can't go be in a place and especially outdoors. You can't be like you know in a place where there's fifty people are sixty people. It seems like the critical mass is around a thousand people with the where the threat in that environment. You just described like your daughter's soccer game you know all those people. Yeah you don't know where all of them have been. But you know you have kind of expectation that all of them are being safest can't as they can be and they also fitting a demo. That's not the risky demo right. They're not Elderly they're not Extraordinarily vulnerable to You know long lung issues cardiopulmonary issues. So like if you're doing some risk weighting right it's probably okay to keep going to the soccer games. Thanks cancelled the soccer games. But you'd think like think our parents are probably high lottery picks for this virus. Just like the thing. That's the that's the part. That's really frightening. Yeah you meant long in coronary staff in. It's like Jesus I mean they canceled the Indian thing here in Palm Springs. Which is you know has a really old clientele and there's a lot of old people that go to the event. They were like fuck this and they got rid of it. That's a good idea now. It's pouring rain. I don't know what that means but yeah I guess we'll see how it plays out it's weird Russillo and I we briefly talked about it on Sunday. I think I've talked about in every pockets of ad since last week. It just feels weird to do podcasts. And not talk about it. You know and I don't really have anything amazing to say but it's and usually I think the stuff to talk about on a podcast especially this one. Is You know what's going on what's on what's on my mind. What's on my friends? My and this is what we talk about. This is what we're talking about every single time quickly before we go the honest Lebron thing. You had a huge. Mvp Bet it seemed like you could just start spending the money even two weeks ago. And then Lebron made the late charge. Resilin I covered all the narratives and all the reasons why Yana should still be the. Mvp with eighteen games laugh depending on what happens but you know who knows could Lebron swing this etc etc. How nervous are you for the Jaanus bed or did you already hedge? I already had? I mean we. We had the conversations among ourselves as scrupulous You know Thought full better in this arena. Cousin Salam I compared. Some notes exchanged some lines that were out there and we did a little bit of forward thinking and and you know basically Lebron at plus odds and in any kind of interruption was the sensible play as of this before they played the clippers. Because that's what it felt like. It was going to switch and we're basically like this is the most value. You'RE GONNA get Lebron right here this moment the Saturday before. They play the clippers because if they beat the clippers than values off the table. You'RE GONNA have to get the pay is going to be pretty close to even odds or or just a little bit above even odd so that was you know the the sensible move and the thing is at that point in time in and we still don't have clarity around it. If you're honest Mrs most of these last eighteen games and the Lakers overtake the bucks. Then I don't even really have that big a problem with Lebron winning the MVP is doesn't really break. My heart I mean we're we're we're past the point. Where through the looking glass in terms of underlying metrics analytics? You know doing the job of swaying the voters. The voters are media people. Immediate people like stories and Russell. Westbrook led a team to forty six wins and one playoff win in a series that that his team lost four games to one but he won the NBA MVP. Because he averaged a team facilitated triple double and that to me was like okay. This is a joke. I perceive had to proceed cautiously. It's all about. The story is not about the underlying metrics hardened James Harden has a legit reason to be pissed about that. Mvp being stolen out from under him that season. And so you know buyer beware. That's the the order of the day as far as I'm concerned when it comes to. Mvp Yeah Oscars are a little like this to the best narrative usually has the best chance but I think with MVP especially when Janas one last year so now people don't feel bad about farm again than the bronze getting up there in age could be. His last stand could be his last chance. People start thinking about that stuff versus the actual production. But the big thing that's changed. Is Milwaukee seem like they were going to be way ahead in the win last thing and potentially going to be in the seventies for wins and now you know the Lakers met either? Catch them or come close to catching them. So at that point. And it's at that point where we're moving when Lawson which is going to our player versus player impact. I is impact who season mattered. More all the stuff. We always talk about this stuff. There's a case to be made for Lebron again. I said this Sunday night. I'm going to repeat it We don't WanNa hear about your vote yet. Anyone out there. There's eighteen games left. Let's let's let this play out. Don't don't rush to vote when there's you know you a week from now in their sixteen games left like just settle down. It's okay we can wait till the final week of the season to make a decision. We don't have to give our thoughts. You know whatever but it's a two man race down and and it's shocking users. No no foreseeable way. Two weeks ago that this was ever happening All because the the bucks looked unstoppable and and were winning in every kind of innovation of of Milwaukee them with Janas without yacht as they were they were dominant. And he is his continued impact on the defensive end. was to me the thing that had him tipped over but if he misses some games because of this injury and the Lakers catch him. Then I don't have any issue with it. Lebron leading the League in assists this year is is incredible and it's not an inflated stat. Right I mean and now it's he's gone out. He's dedicated to it. He's earned it. I Love Lebron as facilitator and if he wins the MVP it's deserved because he's he has four. I love the company that puts them in if he gets to five. You know the Alzheimer's That that that have five Mj Five or six. I don't remember in terms as five. Kareem is six. Mda's five in a in Russell's five so it would so there you go. Yeah belongs in that company. I have absolutely no issue whatsoever. And it'll be a very compelling case only be like Oh jaanus was cheated. The honest will not have been cheated if the Lakers and up with a game within a game or two of the same record as as the bucks for the season or even if they surpass them then then it really compelling well Lebron's also he's as we're taping this. He's played fifty nine. Games thirty five minutes a game basically. So we're talking. I mean we're talking. It's been it's more game than Jaanus Ya. We're talking over. Two thousand minutes headed toward maybe twenty four hundred twenty five hundred something that plus another eight hundred two thousand in the playoffs. Potentially this is Zan pace for thirty five hundred minutes season which I I don't think you know at the level that he's played an hour hardee's played especially lately on both ends. It seems a pretty crazy. It's my favorite brand season. And while he had a six month rest. He took off the lack of last season. You know what though he needed it and he did defend him on that one because it goes back to. What Steve Kerr said with this whole thrown away worrier season when we needed it. It's really hard to go to the finals every year. It's really hard to play for eight to nine straight months year after year and I think I wonder last year Lebron once. He realized that that team didn't have it. You just start thinking like all right. Long-term I want. I want to make two or three more runs at this. It's not a bad idea to reboot and resting. Get my back. But E- even definitely feel it in his play this year. This is as strong and as consistent Physically as he's looking at really since the two thousand eighteen playoffs which was about a five six week thing when he really on the jets you know and and now he's been able to do that for this entire season pretty much. I'm totally fine with it. The one I will not be fine with that. I'm glad Charles Barkley The the guy from bleacher report Have a quote from Charles. Charles is GONNA GO INSANE IF Zion Williamson wins the rookie of the year over. Jamarat I on the record. Right now that if Zion Williamson wins rookie of the year over Jami rant. I'm GONNA drink for six hours and I insist that I have a platform on this podcast. I need just ten minutes dresses back. That's cows favor guesting Williamson. Beats out job mirant. I'M GONNA look up that list of people that voted for. Do they publish? Who voted for who? But that was like. When people voting for embiid that year he played like thirty one gays. It's like what are you guys dealing obvious two thirds of the season. I'm going to go name by name. And there's a there's going to be slander going to be liable. There's going to be bad words on both threaten anybody. But I'm not GonNa say Nice things I'll tell you that much. Well I'll promise I'll promise America this because if this corona thing if if it just keeps getting worse and we hit a point where people can't go to the office raised stuck in their house etc etc. We're going to have to bring drunk house. We're GONNA have to find it very hard. We have to find a way to entertain America as things are getting canceled. Left and right and They're watching games an empty arenas and all that stuff. The world's going to need drunk house. I think willing to do it for you. I'm willing to do it for the ring are willing to do it for America. Well we it would be my pleasure. You and I might not see each other for like six months. Who the WHO. The fuck knows we neither of US getting on a plane. Any attempts doesn't seem like it although you know You'd you'd there. Are these stories out there about you? Know except spotify and the ringer so far the private jets are still pretty clear. What what do I know? All right I'll get on a jet. I'll work on that house. A keep your house. We can hear you on fairway role in making your Players Championship. Anything this week or now. What do you mean anything this week? The Players Championship is the single deepest. It's the strongest field in all of Golf. Every single season there are one hundred forty four players in the in the in the Players Championship. One hundred and ten of those players have won an event on the PGA tour. All of the top seventy five players on tour are in the official World Golf rankings are playing this event except for Tiger whose back is hurt and Lee Westwood. Who wants to gamble on horses in in England? Which is kind of fucking awesome. But Yeah it's I we. We have Pat Mayo Yan with PAT from Mayo experience. He's got a whole bunch of pixies golf a gambling analyst of the year by the way. I didn't know he came on. And we have Matt Wallace who is a player from England? Who's physically at the Players Championship this week? He gave us a little bit intelligence. On what what the conditions are like and what he's kind of expecting so if outstanding fairway role in we give out about probably like ten names. It's a perfect players championship preview. Alright so that's coming up. That's probably by the time people hear this. You could've just said have a new fairway role in podcast. We preview the Shaffi chip. He should listen to it. That would have been the other way to do that. Or you know for Saudi straight seconds for about the guy. I liked to tease it. What everybody has something to sink their teeth into has a pleasure as always stay safe out there? Dc tuck descend. Let's all stay safe out there and bet the unders the empty arenas bet the onder. Okay talk to Hey. Today's business challenges are bigger and more complex than ever before every company progress. Just can't wait. Thankfully helping to accelerate progress in Google clouds DNA. Google cloud lives for the opportunity to help customers. Think through all the different ways to overcome obstacles to make breakthroughs and use technology to create outcomes that matter. It's what they're doing for some of the biggest brands in the planet companies like The New York Times. Pay Pal target each tackling. Big Bold Challenges in shaping the world around us from retail to manufacturing from finance to healthcare in all industries inbetween. Google cloud is helping solve their customer's most important challenges with solutions like industry changing a German insights rock-solid security complete digital transformation. They got a lot going on. Bring them your big ideas. Your wife's your moon shots. There's no limit to what you can solve together. Learn how visit gee dot co slash clouds slash solving once again G. DOT CO slash class slash solving. Google cloud the read. That gives me the most trouble. There were no her again. Google cloud what are you solving for and now without further? Ado My friend. David David Chiang his hair taping this on a Friday morning today that A delicious sees came on Netflix. But we're not running this probably till I'd say Tuesday range unless must who knows who knows what will happen Congrats thank you congrats on that. You actually were dumb enough to put me in this one of my favorite scenes of the entire season. Some people say Joan. I didn't have a high enough usage rate in the series. There could have been more. I could see that I might WANNA spend us off into our own show. It was certainly one of the funniest things with him when he whipped out that knife. You didn't know this knife right now and it because I was the fee watch. I'm Bending Nancy get a Napkin that fell off my lap and I look up. And he's holding this j knife and I'm like what's going on. Why is this happening? So yeah what were the four. You did one about kids kids episode. We did Indian food we did. Vertical Spit cooking foods from the Middle East region and My God was other steak steak. Yeah there's a lot to talk about stage. You're in the stake episode. Yeah I was GONNA say I didn't know when we're going to run this podcast. I was thinking about dry aging it and running at three hundred fifty days from now. And it'll give everyone diarrhea. We've talked about this on the hottest your vehemently opposed to dry state not vehemently opposed. I just don't get it you you tell me you claim that it's life altering to do it and I'm just like you know. It's getting flaming young. I put some a one sauce. It tastes delicious when I love. A one sauce bothers you to. It's okay you a one sauce on French fries. Pretty good not on steak. No you know. What my favorite thing is lately pounded breaded chicken. Wait really pounded pounded in various. Well let's get back to know the now this has to be spoken about. How different is the pounded chicken breasts to any other chicken breast achieving? That you love chicken farms the same thing. I like when it's pounded to the point that there's chicken but there's bread and it's just there's there's some flicker Schnitzel I don't I like Schnitzel. I don't like when it's too fat. I don't like the unfounded chicken breasts. That's breaded it's like. What are you doing? It always feels like it's not totally cooked to enough. You make chicken that major Domo. What is that like a boil? It's the secret best dish on the in the whole restaurant. But it's it's boring. Nobody would be like. Oh let's actually people wanted to quite a bit do that. Yeah well because you feel like all right. Why could get this crazy? Short rear back Agom At Chicken Chicken Zoe's like pushed to the side as like a fun order. But this is it's a it's so this boil chicken neck. We Brian it before we boil it number one. So it's IT'S A and we don't technically boil it we cover it in a pot and we steam it so it's basically boiled and steamed but and then we serve the breast meat and then we make a soup better the leg meat. It's delicious you you love it. I like when multiple things are happening with the same dish dishes going in four different directions. Now I have to put a Schnitzel on the menu. I have to haven't been. Have you been Austria? No that's the home of Schnitzel and there's like a North version of the Schnitzel and a southern version. So the Germans didn't steal the or they know the Schnitzel. I don't think the Germans and vendors Schnitzel. Maybe it's but feel like it's a German thing but the Austrians. Yeah and the the like I think they cook it in some butter and some pork fat but ultimately it's delicious. I think if you don't like Schnitzel that's one of those foods that we can't be friends. Let's go through every country and say what they're single best dishes. Oh I like this rage. People so Austria the Schnitzel ostrich Schnitzel Germany. The brought worst Sauerkraut bratwurst. I'd say the brow the bratwurst with the Sauerkraut French sauerkraut not only just completely underrated but also the levels of Sauerkraut underrated because the high level Sauerkraut. If it's really done correctly nephew kyle had a a a funny look on his face Sauerkraut. And you know I mean if it's between Sauerkraut and bratwurst would you say bratwurst? Yeah Yeah powers but with the SAUERKRAUT okay. We can make that amendment together together okay. What kind of mustard are you looking at that situation? I'll be honest. I'm not a huge fan of mustard and journalists. I like rainy mustard. That's another face whilst is great but not all. Mustards are the same. Yeah I know so I liked that brown mustard dirty brown mustard with a little kick to it. There is what I want with my Sauerkraut in Canada. I'm GONNA say the best muster in the world is from Canada reinstalled 'cause licks it is outstanding truly outstanding must and they have all kinds of muster. Can I order it online? You can oh. This is great information. You've already made by PODCASTS. I mean that's I mean I'm a if I'm GONNA eat mustard. It's gotta be like very very good and obviously if you're going to make a salad dressing I guess. Great proponent something like that or Dijon's fine but caused in candidate to me is the best food in Canada. Chinese food in Richmond British Columbia but Chinese food in general and Canada's amazing Chinese food in Canada. Duda yeah unbelievable. The some of the best cats an east food is in British Columbia with the answer. Would IT BE CANADIAN BACON? It's called P. Meal Bacon now Canadian Bacon in Canada. You don't call Canadian Bacon you. Call it chemo baking. What's the best food in the UK single best dish? I mean shepherds by. That's a key American cafeteria food. I think it's gotta be fishing ships right but it's got to be the the British food like fish and chips is such a low ceiling. I think you've had it bad. I mean you're from mass. You'd probably fine. I think you've not had a fried fish. Another challenge for your Frat Niagara Fall for this. That's just a moving to Italy. What are you GonNa say Pizza or Pasta I mean you know. Fill by the deep ball. It's got to be Spaghetti then right. You'RE DOING PASTA PASTA PASTA SILVER. So now you're right policy. GotTa be Pasta with the meat. Baugh if I'm really going to Italy but as you know I love the chicken Parmesan as we took this focus. 'cause we grow forever. What's let's break up America? All right New England. What is New England the regions so a lot of people would say the lobster roll here lobster roll or Clam Chowder? I personally would say the lobster roll as a higher upside than the clam chowder because clam chowder. They try to ride the reputation of the clam chowder throughout New England. But it's not necessarily that good place to place. What do you think? Kyle more lobster Bisque type. A guy but that might be wrong a region. No no this is the right reason. Just wrong as I think. It's probably clam chowder if it's a good clamps yet but we're just talking like let's assume it's the best right. I feel like we're making your pyramid of food in America. Bright What's New York then? Farc scored one hot dirty water hotdog yet or or someone say auditor or the Army slicer pizza. I don't think it's New York philly's got cheese steak Chicago. People just automatically gravitated deep. There senator enough. That's a writer. Hot dogs are fantastic in Chicago. Yes cogs are great. Everything in Chicago has Garrett's popcorn. I was just there. I know you made. What is that you like that fake flavored popcorn? I like watching them. You do the mix thing and it's got the The sugary side wherever that one's called and then the cheese side then they put it together and they shake it up and make your macaroni and cheese. I just I just like it. I like seeing in the airport. It's the only thing I've ever bought the airport that I'll actually eat. Dc Baltimore Middle inex- crab cake You get to the south. I'd say it's barbecue right. It's all anywhere in their fried chicken. Shit my favorite thing in America. I would have to agree with you fried chicken. I mean you can put the divvy up the south between Barbecue and Fried Chicken Florida couple. Times would count as a Sunday night. Podcast get dinner and a couple times football too. We got the cute you on the show. John John Coach on the Fried Chicken. It's the happiest I've ever seen him is. Are you chicken nuggets or chicken tenders fingers man? you can only one the rest of your life. What's IT GONNA be decide nuggets or fingers? I'm a bonus like strips of finger finger. I like those McDonald's nuggets. Do you like those. Wendy says the Best Wendy's spicy by the way just because it's something that I can never forgive the ringer for. Yeah when a few years now it's the history of Russian interference or something. It's crazy how could you live with yourselves living that be out the world like the two thousand three? Nba finals of Ringer. Moments is really bad. We don't talk about it. The most upset I've ever seen jailhouse. He'd never even fully waffle fries so bad so bad. It's it's it's right up there with one of the worst takes them all time Israel bad. Yeah what is what about California opinion best food. You Go. Some sort of fresh fish type situation break-up California it's different. I'm not too aware of the cuisine of Northern California but if it San Francisco would you say San Francisco? It's fisherman's do. It's funny because people would go Chinese food but the Chinese food scene actually isn't that great not so strong. Yeah 'cause that's such a giant Chinatown but actually how many restaurants in Chinatown would you actually be like super excited to eat at San Francisco has arguably the best fancy high end dining in America but in terms of an actual food to rally around? I don't think they have. I don't know I don't think they have one thing. Don't they have the like the sour dough bread bowl soup thing? That's the guy that's got to be a bill. Simmons like Red Bull again. Have I have strong I Love San Francisco just to go visit. It's one of my favorite places. Spent two days in but That baseball park when they built it and all the food a French fried just just going in that whole after they built it in the outfield and the third base side and they just had it was like. Oh this is cool. There's actually good food in a ballpark. Why why you like San Francisco? It's the Boston of the West Coast. Yeah I've heard that I've heard that I like cities where you go when you murder for. Now they've we but we get on the water. It's it's when you go. There's a specific downtown and there's specific places. Everyone has Boston as the best downtown for a terrorist. Because you can basically go to four pockets and get a feel for everything. Boston has one of my favorite seafood restaurants. Neptune you've been there that place unbelievable. I love like two hour. Wait every time now I know well gotta figure out a cut in line. I think the two hour wait. Thing is one of the best Marketing tools we've talked about almost say you can hire a hundred actors and just have them standing outside and do it for a week and people back. I gotta get into that. But I've actually done that you think. So what's the food of Los Angeles then the Taco Soko out has such a diverse place. But I I would say best represents Los Angeles I think it's gotta be the TACO but you're not a huge guy. You eat them. No I I am a huge TACO. You is that a true statement. He's seen me quite often. He's seen me dea talking to my Jane Larchmont. But no I think Koreatown has really thrown away on your because now so much good food is now happening in creative the the symbolic food of Los Angeles will always be Taco. I agree I think. That's fair Cheeseburgers every class food L. as the southern California is the the like it's Nirvana for a fast food so that was the thing when I moved at her. No To to to fast food options were the immediately the most shocking to me like it was just such a higher level of fast food with your fast food of choice. Why now you know I love. I Love Chick flicks I told you how would would chick-fil-a got cancelled for like nine months. I snuck in a couple of times. My hat pulled down said just like a drug addict as chicken nuggets. Said if you take away their shitty politics and their stance on people in general if you just look at the sandwich it's really not that good really is not that good there are there are versions of it now. That compete pretty heavily. I just like it. I like the VIBE. Like a facet as 'cause he's of the younger generation. What are your thoughts Kyle to Philly Flair? Also chick-fil-a sauce. Good really good milkshakes. For Fast Food Polynesia I gotTa Change that name and twenty twenty last night What else are we could go on Texas Barbecue Texas Barbecue. Just point blank right. I like when you said you take away their shitty politics. What was the other thing? He said take their people tech ago for about twenty companies. Right you're right. We can't just say about but chick-fil-a their food just isn't that but maybe I'm just projecting my jealousy of their crazy success. You know you'll ask fast enough. That's really the tagline. We did your version. She did well. It's doing great Barclays. But I think it's a better. We serve dark. This is a thing. We serve dark meat. Where now transitioning more white meat? Because Bluebird does here two at staples dark on dark meat only for the chicken tenders. And I'm like I'm not a dark. Mink guide sorry all right. I know you are sleep. Will I don't want to sound like a racist statement but if you had to divide the world American White Americans Love White chicken breast meat the rest of the world for the most? But there are certainly exceptions. Kyle is obviously one of them but uncle bill likes white breast meat versus dark. The rest of the world seems like dark meat. This is another my son. Ben Simmons like stark me 'cause Kasese he's a different kind of cat he's different kind of coolest guy in our family's been introduced to a lot of cool things and he's got good. Pallet. He also eats three day old Sushi or just saying earlier. Yeah I wanNA talk about that. That's unacceptable. We got sushi on Friday night. I always over order because he eats it in the morning the next morning for breakfast then he aided again for dinner. 'cause WE OVER ORDERED. I thought so it was gonna be home and and with their friend and they ended up going to dinner and then Sunday morning bad. Eleven o'clock range so this is forty hours after the Sushi had been delivered. He was back in eating the tuna on top of the rice cakes plowing that home. I'm not it seemed. It seemed questionable. It's not questionable. I don't think the only thing that's questionable is. The Rice is going to be hard and not very good to eat the rice at so he doesn't care but you think the fish itself vicious fine. Most of the fish you eat in Sushi restaurants is frozen anyway right. You've fixed by area spots. I think so. You've been on my part in a while with what's the biggest food trend where two months and the two thousand twenty. It feels to me like the impossible. Burger beyond Burger Vegan. Thing has been the biggest thing that's changed over the last twelve months even if you look at their posts caviar sites like they have a ton of Vegan options now at least. La Spread to the other cities yet. I think it's probably been one of the bigger things obviously beyond going public and going bananas and then coming Back Down to Earth a little bit In the war between impossible beyond obviously I have to refer impossible but I don't think that's the biggest story. I think the biggest story is the rise of food delivery but that was last year to its. You'd think it's exponentially bigger. That's going to be the story of the next ten years. Yeah I really what it does to restaurants it's GonNa completely decimate the business. I think. Yeah so your theory is almost like with movies where it became harder and harder to get people to go to a movie theater unless it was a movie you had to see in the theater otherwise people will just wait till Zahedan or they could rent it or whatever. The stay home with their night's T- they. You're worried that the food delivery business is now undercut in the restaurant business in a way. That is no longer good for the restaurant business. Yeah I mean if you just look at the numbers I mean. I'm just going off the top of my head like an average restaurant if it's a profitable restaurant which is hard enough. I probably say it ranges anywhere from five to fifteen percent and if you really chugging its like eighteen to twenty percent net. So if you're doing five to ten percent that's your sort of bottom line. I think you're losing that five to ten percent at minimum right now with delivery as a competitor because now you're not just competing against one restaurant you're competing against the entire city. Yeah and it's not a every meals being ordered in but I'd say three or four per week now so three to four per week pretty much adds up to five to fifteen percent of the of the market in my opinion so I think I'm concerned because I think that it's not gonNa go away. We have to figure out how to make it work because it's sort of could be indentured servitude It's a model that has to improve for the actual restaurants. I don't give it too much. I don't care too much about the the delivery service but you know I do. I use them. Yeah do I post made stuff? Yeah but I'm trying to figure out what the model is because a lot of these services take at minimum thirty percent topline of a restaurant without going into too. Many specifics is just as a model. That is not gonNA work long term. So I don't know what the future holds but I have a lot of concern. Quick break to talk about simplisafe home security two ways two ways. I repeat two ways. You can go about protecting your home. 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So we need to see like you know a Jordache was exclusive with John. Vinnie's when a deal like that happens. What does that mean to be excluded? Have a restaurant be exclusive to service the restaurant if Dornoch asked us. I'm sure we probably would have to say yes to driving so much traffic and Jordache benefits. Because they're getting you know the brand recognition of John in vinnies right so it's a win win. I'm when I say people are GONNA lose. It's not the proven players like John vinnie's right. That's like a a conic. La Institution now. It's all the restaurants that are trying to be like John vinnie's. That won't get the opportunity that gives me concern right so I don't know I'm not a economics expert but I think that the model is not there yet. I know a lot of people are working on it. But DC world in which there's less tables and more of the restaurant is geared toward food delivery but also we have some tables to but maybe half as many tables as we used to have. Yeah I've always actually sorta thought that because that's why I started to get into food delivery myself the two things that we started a few years ago because there's going to be some kind of better balance of a restaurant delivering food but also serving food in the four walls restaurant but I don't know what the future restaurants look because it's not gonna be in the four walls of restaurant which means restaurants aren't going to go away. They're just going to be specific kind of restaurants. And we've talked about this. They're going to be shit that you can't deliver ultimately but You know we all WANna go out to eat but do you think that we've lost the meaning of going out to dinner. If think about twenty years ago that I still love me. We went out to dinner two weeks ago. That was great. But do you feel that? There's a generation or just diner's in general now with so many options is food so good right now across the board for most people not everyone that it's not a specialist as it used to be like getting to with you and you know 'cause building the my Asian American club he's a I've cardmember right. We go out with Chou and Yang and Chris Chan like. That's the thing 'cause we rarely get together. And that's what's a special thing. Recently we went to parks barbecue. Which if I walked in by myself they would just stare at me for three hours. We don't have any special thing. But what if you want to wind up going there without me and you start getting that treatment and you get it every day. That's the true Asian Card if I if I pull that off but I feel like that people are getting a little bit desensitized to it because it's like too much right. I think so I still love going out to dinner. I love sitting across table and catching up with somebody and like in that case the parks barbecue. Where we've been there a couple of times. That Stu they have you know you kinda go. Granted it's like seeing Lebron person after fifteen years like. Oh Man I forgot. Lebron is fucking incredible. I'm glad you brought up and I'm glad you like this STU. Do they have a parked called coach? Joan g-get so you know a lot of the Korean barbecue shops. They don't get as much credit as they should for their broths. Right your big soup guide. All the BEE's craps turn into amazing beef beef soup and they add that with coach. John which is a Korean fermented Chili paste and a few other vegetables. And you basically like a the best. Korean chilly of all time. Some vegetables potatoes but SAUSALITO good. I think it's the best dish consistently best dish in Los Angeles for me. I think you're sort of on that same wavelength run. What was the other one we went to that you blew up in the shopping center. Oh Sung yeah because that was the other one that had the Great Sioux the I say they they don't give me any fucking time of day you would like to. I like it but Yeah they're like the NBA referee. That's not impressed by any superstar. Let's say for sure now. That was a travel. I'm calling it. I was talking to a chef. I won't blow up. But they were saying that this whole world of food and food media and just access to good food and people sort of getting their dopamine levels up because they're constantly just eating good shit. Owings is like a porn addiction for everyone with food. They're just at a point now where they're just like well. That's not enough. I'm just more shit. That's crazy way to think about it but I think there's something there and that's what I'm afraid of is dining has lost like that sense of like I don't know what that is. You know what I mean. 'cause knows Savita Porn Addiction. You'RE GONNA categories in your just hanging out whatever your predilection is and if you like. Where's your house? When you need 'em Kyo has is the perfect person these these conversation but with food. It's I just love chicken parm where I'm at. Where am I getting my chicken parm? But that's the thing is you're constantly can for the best chicken parm so you could be chicken. Potentially you think could you well? I had went to Madeo again last week or this week and had the That the Ville Chop you can ask them to Parmigiana style. I still waiting to me. It's it or chicken pork very I'm very as you know very squeamish about the viewers right especially when it's in a chop thing because I think it can go wrong I don't like I don't like rolling the dice. But you don't want chicken parm with exception. Chicken parm is is more reliable. You probably Bahij Fan math Italian. My mom made Pasta Zule yesterday. She never other than the banana pudding thing that you made. It's going to happen. I'm making it happen. She's she's reconciling her feelings about show after seeing some of the ugly delicious cut. She's not sure he's yeah he's a little are rated. She's she's she's wants to make sure. I vouch for him. You Trust me but Yeah she made the Pasta Fizeau which is I don't know where you stand on that. I don't even know what do what is possible. Zoll it's basically like soup right. It's a soup but it's got pasta in it. It's always piping hot. You put cheese on the top. Some people put like little tiny meatballs than and other people. Don't and it's just delicious. It's basically like Spaghetti Stu little round little if you had it every day or like every other week it lose it sort of luster. Well that's one where you have cowed Avid Jambo of it. Then he would go on the back and sit in massage chair and pass out because it's just like a it's basically like eating a coma but kyle if you had it every day you get sick of it right now. I don't know you wouldn't get sick of Jamie's food not you eighty. Jim Be a bit of an ingrate at times. I think you know it's but it's every day I'd be like yeah but I think that's what's happening with food in general it's becoming commoditised and I don't know if that's good or bad thing but it's getting harder and harder for restaurants to be like this is. What's you know. This is what we're going to do to keep you interested so I don't end some crazy. Shit thing is some stuff just doesn't travel well. With food delivery one hundred zero well pizza's the best Chinese food and fried chicken or two and three fries. They have not been able to figure out because it's not possible fries die in the vine after ten minutes and there's just no around is just the way there's there's someone I know that's trying to make food in general in the vehicle as it gets to you. Oh Wow that's how far as happen. Yeah interesting so yeah so for Twenty Twenty. You still have food delivery as the number story right now it will. There's two things I feel like political talking about fighting for its food delivery and it's GonNa be environment in terms of how you can get ingredients in three is going to be like you know Labor Issues. Because they're just too. Many restaurants is just too many fucking restaurants you should do. This should be like a Bernie Sanders type talk. You put fear. There's too many restaurants we need to have more people with a state at the table. One of my favorite things in the world is when you do impersonations in general distant Bernie's when the only ones that can do But Yeah I don't know much Sushi. The SUSHI out of the hands of the sushi chefs. They need to sit at the table. I don't know what's going to happen but the thing that I think we're all worried about as the crow virus and I just think other than washing your hands and keeping employees home if they happen meal like that's the thing I'm I'm really worried about as it affects not just restaurant business. It's like everything right so we'll see what I mean. We're taping this on a Friday bedtime people on Tuesday. It might be three times worse. We have no and I don't want to talk too much about it because I don't want to incite panic or anything but I'm a paranoid person in generally on a really good day so this has me up at night for sure. How old is your son right now. Just turned one. What kind of food would what are the staples now is in the Mac and cheese phase yet? He slowly eating pasta so I cook almost all stuff on for the most part. She eats like a real champion. This is where you gain probably eight pounds right now from one to one and a half points start eating they start eating more fun stuff but they only finished like one third of it and you say oh man. What a waste of MAC and cheese I. I just got to finish that for him. Well it's you're right. This happened like as breakfast like Yeah the difference is I can make some things that maybe north of chance. I was like I was like. Oh you know what? He wants to eat bread. But it's GONNA be off. I was like Oh. I'm just GonNa make crepes because pancakes will be too thick for him so make crepes and put some spinach and some Parmesan. It's great you talk about somebody who's going to be desensitized again. I'm actually worried about the status of girls a fact it's crossed my mind for sure but he he's You know it's awesome. I actually love making his food and I wish I instead of actually opening restaurants I just got an a baby food or pet food. I wouldn't have to do with fucking customers ever. That'd be a blessing. What would you? How would you change baby? Food will ris or three moves it just the the store shit is not tasty now. I've tasted them all. Yeah some of them are okay. If they're fruit puree but my my my two cents is. I don't I haven't tried one. That is compelling enough. You Know Jennifer. Garner has her brand once upon a farm. I'm learning all the ship so that's pretty good. I guess for for pure as and such but for the most part. It's pretty easy to make it yourself as you just freeze it but you know. I'm not gonNA go until whole less than Outta make baby food but maybe one day babysits ever so for dinner. She go eat salmon. Salmon Turkey chicken or beef. Usually some rice. You blend in that stuff up or not boil down was with some cooked rice and And Avocado breakfast. He eats a soft boiled egg. He doesn't eat hard boiled eggs. He's already turning into a food. Food Weirdo and yogurt or some oatmeal. And then lunch is a vegetable tray and then dinner is some kind of salmon rice type of thing. He's really well. It's like some kind of Diet of but Most Dad's dream of having like that. I catch with their kid a new like that that I yeah harks. Barbecue Stu that he can find without it. Cinching his intestines. How old is at all you have to be like eight I. I'm trying to figure out how to give yet in spicy food. Ate Him in the spicy? I don't know I don't know when to do that. And I try to sneak food to him while my wife's not looking 'cause she's like You can't sue salty to me. He likes salty things. But I guess they're making you just put like little taste on his tongue. Get Him you don't do it. That's what I've been doing. She doesn't know that she is now she does but like. I can't believe the kid thing I get to do. Actually do like para corner stuff with you. So it's it's like best. You had the one year birthday partner as well. The the you have like multiple parties during that I wonder day is a big one. Learned that Asian Carter about the Koreans getting better and then the the one years called the Dole and that's where they get dressed up in the Korean traditional clothing and usually mostly families there and they choose like you know a pencil paintbrush money and that's like a basically some kind of fortune telling what they might do. My son chose stethoscope and I was like Kinda Happen. Dr. Chang's we don't have that day to the screaming patients professional gambler. Yes I could see that. Oh you know. We have talked about this last time. I saw you in a podcast about parasite winning seven Oscars greatest the greatest moments since Lin Sanity for the Asian American community. You know man it was. I can't believe it happened. I'm speechless but I have to say he parasite and director bond fucked it up for everyone else. Whatever you do in the non lawyer financial academic centers. If you try to do something in the creative feels like well you have to win four Oscars now you think tiger mobster parasite so now. I think Korean parents aren't going to take the kids off the Gulf. I send them to like films film school. And it's like you better win five Oscars because that's your measurement that your measure of success now. Yeah unbelievable who who can ever guest. I certainly couldn't I just. It's weird that it happen. I'm so happy but I can't believe it up. I mean what do you think in your whole five year rule? Is that something? We're GONNA look back on me like that was worthy or should have been a lot of people love that movie. My initial instinct was that once upon a time would be the five year but I really think people love para say and I think people are watching it too which is especially when it hits like. Hbo CINEMAX or whatever. It's on Amazon on Netflix. I think it I think it does have a rewatch ability to it. So we'll see you know my wife's not a huge fan of me saying it's too because like everyone I know. That's Korean is like they love it. It's the best. I think it's a great movie and I know I'm Korean. I need to be saying it's the greatest movie all time. I'm one hundred percent overjoyed and I wanted them to win everything I just? I'm not at the level to say it's like the best movie anyone's ever seen and that's to me the hyperbole and I think warranted because we've been waiting for this moment. Everyone thought we're GONNA have a Black Panther. I just don't think anyone thought it would end was going to be this. So that's what I'm excited about but like I wanNA make sure that it has lex right so for this to really have the impact culturally. It's gotta continue to be the best in class where you can't really say maybe once upon a time in Hollywood was the maybe overall better move. I liked it. I didn't love it but I saw it on my TV with subtitles harder to read because it's on TV versus the giant big screen. I think if you're chapin the theater it and it was would have been a different experience. It's dance and you know a lot of repeating themes throughout his movies and it's just. It's a brilliant movie i. What's what's the Pantheon. Now whereas Bong Bong in in Asian culture right now yes he number one. He's number one. He's got the championship belt. There's not there's no one even close right member on Steve. You had the belt. Well Steve. This has been an amazing year for Korean actors and directors. Steve is coming out with the movie. eight twenty four is coming out with it. Nari. Yeah that's anyone's dance. Yeah and it's basically a story about trimmer going to. I think Arkansas as chicken farmers in that whole story and I think Steve is just an amazing actor. And I'm so happy that I think this is gonNA crush for him and the Director. So Walking Dead Dad when they killed them off not watch the episode since I was. Nah I never out within a couple episodes. I couldn't believe that was the one guy I would not have killed but the only thing that's walking dead inspired me to do is I've been looking at Tanah. Blake on Amazon. You need that I really have. It's Joe Bat. So who did who did take the championship belt from no he making it from you know. I think he might have again Korean. Don't rally around me. I'm just too wide for us. He's a real career and I am a fake. You know I yes. He's like the real deal whether he's a fucking genius. The best thing is he was. He was talking the talk as he was winning the trophies. Going oh you could just tell us like. I'm really partying tonight. This is going to be a really fun night. And then that sort accident happened. He got should face. It was a legendary party. What was going on? Yeah Which is an amazing restaurant. And I'm so happy that they went there because now a lot of people in Los Angeles are more aware of what has been already accepted but that was like a seven o'clock night right was all night. Yeah they reopened From what I heard but Yeah me you weren't here. I wasn't here. You missed basically the Asian Super Bowl. My but here's the thing my Cranston. This is the redskins winning the Super Bowl for this. Yeah but I would've felt weird like years ago. Ten Years Crane was pretty good now that she has children's books basic Korean books were learning tasks together. It's pretty embarrassing. Because I never speaking. It's like a whole muscle memories dead. Have you met bomb? I have not met. We gotta get on your podcast. I know I got through my Korean. We just get the L. I guess that'd be tough because we need the translator. Listen to us. She could talk to me. I could respond back in English pretty well. I think but that would be weird. He's he's a he's a genius and actually now with spotify they'll probably be able to click a button right Doctor Bong. He's he's older so I had to call them like Chung or something like that. What's his wha-? I wonder what his next thing is doing. Parasite is that actually going to happen going to happen. Do you think that happened in the sense that like? We didn't think it was going to be. I feel like the ban in that. Now I don't think so because the movie is so big now it's like he can't do the TV version of the movie. Now that the movie clean things of that movie. I don't know how that translates but that's not up to me. You know that's GonNa be there figure out how translates to like American culture. Let's take a break. I want to tell you about two podcast. On the Ringer podcast network one is in exclusive to spotify hosted by Chuck. Closer and Chris Ryan. It's called music exists. It's excellent deep dive conversations about music and its role in society culture. Sports you name it. Last week's podcast was called. Where do sports and music meet? I think this is really good. You've heard both of those guys on this podcast. And if he liked them I promise you'll like music exists as well. The other podcast about against all odds remember our old friend cousins. How he shows up on Sunday nights does guest the lines of me do it for twenty two straight weeks and then he disappears so he can do his other four jobs while he still has a podcast for us. It's called against all ads and last week. He did a whole thing about Brady's future. He had the doctor who's on on twitter all the time breaking down. Nfl injuries. Dr David Chow. Yeah he had that guy and he had the super seventy sports guy on wrestling every week. Something's going on and this is really went south thrives when there's no football and he can just go out of his way to find the most ridiculous bets on the planet to Breakdown. March ban is coming up in a whole bunch of other things hopefully but check out against all odds with cousin sow and the TRIFECTA. Two of the many podcasts. We have here on the podcast network not to mention David. Chang's why should check that out to back to the POD? Tell us about your book. Yeah Nineteenth Random House Clarkson partner would love for you guys to preorder this right now great It's it's something that was signed like four or five years ago and I just delayed doing it until I couldn't delay it any more And I it just weird you mean you wrote a book but it was a book basketball. It's not about your life right. This is my life and it's weird and I don't know how to feel about it. It's very strange. It's a memoir to memoir. Yeah you know but people followed your career. They'll have a general gist of some of the things you're hitting you're going pretty deep and some of them. Yeah I don't I mean it definitely talks about a little bit of my upbringing but not too much because that talks about food talks about like mental health but it sort of covers sort of Momo to present day and I I'm nervous because letting that out in the world is for yourself out there. You're like fuck out of here. Actually I would say the one of the trends of the last five six years I think with writing is it's gotten way more personal. Yeah and a lot of it as like. Here's what happened to me like. Here's here's the story about this. One damage thing that happened to me and how it shaped me to be the person I am now. Here's here's how I battled this thing and I got through it and now I'm here seems to be like an actual genre now. I mean the Players Tribune over and over again has pieces from athletes. Where it's like I'd hit rock bottom and then I came back. Here's my story. Do you think that started that sense of like twitter. Twitter took off like now players are just completely open about their anxiety and depression or the highs and lows like that never happened ten years ago but it didn't happen five years ago. Who's pretty recent Kevin love advanced a little bit. I think that long it was three years ago to your years ago. I think a tipping point was in when I did the Song Conference of that last year and he was so open about being concerned about the players and their and their mental health and stuff and that I felt like made it more real that the commissioner of the League was like. I'm worried about the of my players But Aso I worry about the stuff that obviously we have a lot of young people work here and it's just like you know I I think social media. I think all this stuff makes me nervous and people online all the time and or checking stuff and constant feedback and the instagram culture. I think about all the time with kids. Well that's a sort of the same thing I was talking about. Food is just too much right. How do we find a way to is? Is that thing? That's an? I'm not the first one ever made this point but the thing that scares me about the instagram and especially seeing when my kids you're always trying to present the best per version of your life at all time and that was what that movie Eighth grade which I think last year did really well. Where it's like just along Padre? Yeah and this girl has is really sad kind of life but has just instagram version of it. That seems like it's a little more fun and I. I think there's I think a lot of people have trouble finding that balance of I'm constantly trying to pretend I'm having more fun doing better than I actually am. You know and that that's where it gets dangerous. This is going to be like we'll probably too serious for the show but now lately I guess this is something. I've been thinking a lot about it and we do. We actually talked about it at some length in the St episode for this ugly delicious and at this ties into the concept of what been talking about food like too much access to something like Do you feel that we are eliminating suffering and pain of trusting the process more or less the best way to describe it and editing all of that just to show this perfect plastic sense of perfection? And that's fucking everything up. It's like instant gratification society. Yeah but the idea of happiness to me weirdly. And that's why I think we have the cover of like a rolling up the hill on the book. Which is called? Edp is that maybe happiness is doing the hard work and not the actual moment of happiness right because that's always fleeting and the way I described with food. Steak is and this is weirdly the analogy that. I've been thinking to myself as if the three of us were here in California forty thousand years ago and we were hungry and we had support our family. And Kyle's a terrible hunter but you're awesome and whatever we knew it would be that way right like we've been hungry for thirty days and then we kill some woolly mammoth. Yeah and then. We're like dude. I'm going to start the fire and it's GonNa be the best right. You got the salt. You got the knife and we're going to feed like thirty people of our closest friends and family that night where everyone's hungry is going to be the best day of our lives. We're going to remember that. And then we you know we process it. We've tried to store some of the meat but you know a month goes by. We're out of all the meat and we're like all you're thinking of Asha. We're going to do this again. This sucks right but if that was every day we're not gonNA really appreciate that moment of eating something and I think that over time meeting because the world over even if you're Vegan we all came here because we ate meat you know in in the steakhouses like bill the bill the butcher time in gangs of New York. If you WANNA go eat steak was called a beef steak house you literally walk through the carcasses. Yeah and it's a celebration. We all celebrate over meat or not everyone these days right for environmental reasons or whatever. Can you imagine going to restaurants today walking through carcasses of cows hanging and they'd be like yeah I'm GonNa have that cut there and I want to bloody AP L. Does but like those are vestiges of it? And I know this sounds crazy. You can edit the shit out but like now. We don't edit the best but now like even when you into Morton's they would bring out the steak on a cart and tell you this. Is The this cook for you? Yeah we now go to a steakhouse and not even know that you know like cow died for it or it was age before. Today's bill's favorite. And we've just like that's what I want and give it to me now like we've completely eliminated the process of like you know this fucking cow. Whatever whatever or it's so expensive so the suffering in my opinion has now been translated to you know cost or whatever. I'm I'm losing. My Mind. Spoke Pot or something but it's like. I can't quite figure out. How do I know where you're going because your impatience? But how do we get back to a point and eating where it's like that moment? Where like this is fucking awesome. I'm so glad to be breaking bread with you. Let's get fucking drunk. Let's remember the good times. This was so fucking hard to get here. And that's what I WANNA do with restaurants restaurants going to go away. But how do we get it too? It's like like that. You know what I mean. I don't know what I just said. Let me like what the fact I actually followed it kyle yet. I think when you talk about things being fleeting that's kind of a side conversation what you just said but like if you achieve something achieve it the whole what do I do next some people. Some people kind of fold from the moment other people like the process of it's the process that is attracted to them not the actual winning new look at like any of the great athletes. They win the title. They celebrated for five hours the next day. They're in the gym checks like okay we won. Thanks Brady's famous quarter by. What was your favorite? Super Bowl is like the next one. Those are like somebody like Steph. Curry wins two titles and route. He's at the gym the next as soon shots. And Yeah you cover this all the time on your podcast when you talk to athletes. It's like the Super Bowl hangover right. You've experienced it like I don't want to work as hard now. That's the problem is. How do we commit ourselves to fucking work harder? I don't think it's possible. I think people don't want to because why would someone want to experience like intense suffering unless you're a crazy person like coby or Michael Jordan? Kobe had some interesting thoughts about this too. Big about And it's funny. Because when Kobe was alive he was like a little bit of a character with some of the stuff in the Mamba and we would kind of make fun of it and then after he died and people were reciting some of the stuff that like he really believed in. It seems so much more profound and this was one of the things that he talked about. He was like it's about the day to day. It's about every day treating what you do with the proper manner respect and dedication and that's how you win. It's not about oh I did this. It's about do you have the will day after day to try to work towards something way more than Jay. No but it's like that's a real thing and I do worry about that with Especially younger people when because you know the all the jokes about the trophy generation and the participation trophy generation all that stuff but you know the people that still are GonNa make. It are the people that put in the time. And don't expect things are gonNA get handed to them after a certain amount of time. It's the people that are like I wanna be great at this. How do I become great? Why do I keep putting hours? How do I learn from people how to listen to people? How do I keep adding things year after year? Those are the people that make it like I. I always love it when you talk about. You know now that you have the podcast the book basketball and in all your writing about the secret and it's not about you. It's the team and being sort of empathetic and after teammates. All these things and it's not a surprise to me that all the athletes that have historically one year after year they always talk to all these people and they have the same work ethic. Why is it that it's not clear to everyone else that this is what they should be doing? That's what I don't understand. One thing I learned not saying I'm you know unlike the master this or anything but 'cause I I had obviously some failures but around like oh six and it wasn't intentional originally but I realized like every year I want. I want to add or at least try one thing that I didn't do the previous year and I want to at the end of the year. I WANNA look back and be like all right so that happened this year and the first couple years. I didn't realize it but by like two thousand eight or nine. I was like all right. This is every I wanNA approach sway. Where at least I roll the dice in some way with something. I think that's a really good that that's probably some of the best advice. I could give to people who are thinking about what I want to be some day. Or how do I get from point? A. Point beer point data point e wooded you add over the last twelve months. Are you in the exact same spot that you were twelve months ago and if you are is that a good thing or are you satisfied with that and I don't? I don't know a lot of people think that way because some people they hit a certain point in their head. And that's it and that's fine. I don't begrudge that but if somebody's talking about they really WanNa be something you have to keep adding trying and you can't be afraid to fail. I don't think you sound like Kobe. Bryant who every off season I gotta work both failed in high profile as a few times. Yeah was it a bad thing? No at the moment it sucks. It's a moment in your life set name but you look back and go all right. There was no I learned from that I had. Can I take those three things I look at like? Hbo Show failed. I learned three really three or four. Really good things from it you had. What was your biggest failure? Nishi probably and you you learn from that you learned to double down you. You figure it out. All the reasons didn't work and then you pilot Realize Hey my my game plan doesn't work anymore. You know I felt like Sean McVeigh. Yeah I was like fuck. I can't be Sean. Mcveigh right now. And hopefully McVeigh's not Sean mcvay. He turns into something else. But you know I was just thinking about our favorite Crean Brother David. Show and Qadam guys like some kind of weird wisdom savant or something because this is how he's phrases it and I think even talk to Howard Stern about this on on the stern podcasts. Not No show years ago. He he phrases all of this these hard moments in life. Whether they've happened to you or you are the reason for it is post traumatic growth or post traumatic stress disorders and most people choose post traumatic stress as an not an excuse but as the logic and reasoning as to why they're not going to push harder or You know not try because it hurts too much and I I. I don't think you can blame anyone. Feel that way and I don't know what the rhyme or reason is for people be like well whatever obstacles in front of me that's going to propel me. I don't have any rhyme or reason and I wish I could because I would cast he's GonNa React. Yeah I don't mean a single somebody out but this is a positive so Kevin O'Connor who's been on your pack love him so we hired him in two thousand. Sixteen Celtic Blogger. I call him cock not cock so for next two years he really worked at. He listened to us. He really worked at his writing. Figured out how to get better and become a better reporter at that Santamaria. We gave him a pass to through that atom. He figured out what his voice was. I would say this. He went up on the PODCASTS. At the same time he has all this personal shit going on has dad unfortunately just died as he's talked about his data lattice data cancer in the last year. He had a really rough ride. And you know he passed away and he had all his personal shit going on and he was able to balance that And be there for his family but also really kept trying to get better and thinking about how to get better as about as proud of of that as anything burnt you know and I know you are because we talk about it. Because he's gone so much better read and he what what I found to be incredibly like not just vulnerable. But that's what it was like. That's maybe what dudes need to be talking about more that strength the strength seeming like. I'm really at a loss. My father passed and by the way. If that's your reaction that's fine. I'm not I'm not saying that's a bad thing. Every it hits everybody differently. I think when you find when you can find strength in adversity like that and actually be like compartmentalize a different way and come out of it in a place where you're like all right. This happened but I'm gonNA respond this way like you really learned something about somebody at that point and I wish I could figure out how to just be like. Hey this is how you how it happens. But I don't I don't think there's a rhyme or reason as to when someone's like yeah this is what's going to. This is why I'm going to get through this right. And maybe it's a coping mechanism. I have no fucking idea because you know but you know when you say that it's like if someone chooses not to get better at the job either. It's like that's not bad either. You know what I mean. That's what I'm at now. And I. I just wish I could better prepare people including myself as to how to deal with all this shit. Because you know. Shit's getting more complicated harder than ever. Before the thing is people control their own destiny a lot more than maybe they realize. Sometimes you know and it's like if you're sixty percent earth whatever then try try go at one hundred percent or if you're not happy somewhere maybe that's not where you should be or if you went down this path and it's not working why isn't working How how can you flip it in a positive but problem solving I think is its own skill? And it's something. I was really bad at for a long time. It sounds like shit like we're doing like a whatever. What are we doing personal I? I'm growth package sponsored by no but look at so when I was ready for the Boston Herald and I felt like I was better than all the people there or at least the people I was competing against and it wasn't happening for me and I was double now's trying but then you know I submarine myself 'cause I instead of being like all right I'm GONNA keep my head down. I'm just GONNA be better than I'm just going to keep doing work and eventually someone will notice my attitude was like. I'm better than these people. This is so frustrated and can't believe this and you get caught up in that and then you're not doing as good work and I didn't realize I was doing that. You spend so much mental energy not working just being mad and just being like why. Isn't this happening? Why is that happening? This guy and you get caught up in that so I think of what social media is like now and I. I do feel like you know you could feel it. Especially after the trump presidency with young people with. They're mad about that but then they're going on social media then there's other people that are mad there and then it's just as tornado everybody mad about everything and. I don't know if that's healthy. I don't talk about like mental health. Wise you go back to the original question. Why are there more and more pieces about People talking about this is what happened to me. And here's I got through it. I think it's all part of the same thing I think. I think social media in general if you're on and all the time it's a d there's not a happiness factor from that. That's GONNA payoff. In my opinion I totally agree and I you know the one thing I can remedy social media sort of you. Know UNI mind. Unique voice is like just being honest. And if you're afraid of making mistakes then you're never gonNA learn and you're gonna just make decisions like everyone else and there's a group thing too that I think it's dangerous. Here's the thing what's a drug. A drug is if I try to remove this from my life a miniature notice and not be able to function and I'm GonNa think about how I don't have this thing so it's like caffeine. I don't have coffee in the morning at fucking discombobulated but I also love coffee. Coffee's not bad for me it's Okay. It's okay to be addicted to that. I feel like but coffee cocaine. The cocaine or cigarettes. Like if you're if you're smoking cigarettes and you wake up in the morning like I need a cigarette will cigarettes are bad for you. That's a bad place to be if you can't live like two days without looking at twitter or instagram like I. I honestly worried for my daughter if I was like. I took your phone away. You can't look at Tick Talker instagram. For today's could she function? Yeah but I think she would the first six hours she just reflexively looking at her hand where the phone would be. It's like is that a good thing now so all the stuff I I. I do worry about this stuff but I don't know if I'm the old guy I think we're the old guys. We sound like the old guys. We should go back to flip phones Internet cafes. I think the great. Kyle's a rare rare twenty two now than instagram. Like a year. Kaya would much rather be at a bar hanging out with two people shooting the Shit. I know service at the dark room. I don't have a choice. Yeah Kyle's like let's go have a cigarette outside and we'll have a moment here for the next ten minutes and then then he'll get all sappy. It's my move and be like Chang Man. You mean a lot to me. I just WanNa tell you I'd love you got me. You Got Me Chang. You guys are kind of so this is GonNa take another weird route. But let's go. You talked about the masters and how amazing it was. Besides the Gulf itself was the fact that you guys weren't a vacuum of information no cell phones no running no bullshit and then the year after I went and I was like. Oh my God this is heaven on right in everyone's following orders and if you WanNa meet someone you're like hey. That tree over on the fifteenth. Let's just beat. They're like when wear like we'll we'll just see you there. Yeah and that's how it used to be or you re run into you run into somebody again that you didn't think you're gonNA again and it was like super exciting exactly like going too far back in the day you're like. Oh Shit and then that doesn't happen anymore we've been I like to watch shows ripe for a fall asleep and lately. I've been watching melrose place which is on the CBS all accents. Your favorite of the female cast members Courtney. Thorne Smith first of all up. So glad you asked Ab- so glad yes it is a murderer's row. It is it is the ninety two Dream Team of female. Let's go through but Amanda Woodward Aka Heather locklear. That's that she comes in halfway through the season. The show's dying. That's when we started watching it Rewatching recently she comes in and is immediately love triangle with bill in Allison and and she's throwing a hundred and thirty five miles an hour. It just phenomenal. But it's interesting to watch though because people it's they're having converse there's no phones. Nobody there's no social media there's no way 'cause nineteen ninety-two and people will be like you know. Jake and billy they'll shooters just start talking about their life for twenty minutes. Something like this never happens anywhere. Kyle's not like hey Jim Cunningham with Kanana's shooters I've tried. He's not into it. Yeah his fuck you cow. So basically we're saying the cell phones ruin live. Snow is just. It was an interesting way to watch people interact. It was also way more flirty like melrose. His you watch it like. Oh who's the band? So culture were not willing. The doctor was the worst character right. Well see that was his name. The last twelve episodes of season one. He starts cheating on his wife. That's right and the whole show takes off because it's got that and it's got the London now right no she just starts dating other people so we'll have to watch this thing is there is a great. There's a great stocker subplot. 'cause Alison's boyfriend it becomes like a villain and that part was good but anyway Watching it just seemed like simply because it's GonNa be watchable. Nine nine really could be I nine. Oh Two one zero right which ran melrose place. Yeah because Brenda was dating someone. Brennan would know is Kelly Got Bobby G. That's right glad was talked about this. Melrose place was a cultural phenomenon. Thank there is everybody in a twelve year. Age Rangers watching it every Monday night without too now just the way when. I don't think there's shows like that now but anyway it was. It was a simpler time. It was fascinating to watch people like. Hey Wanna get out of shooters and get a beer sure. Now that person would just be online. People aren't even drinking anymore. I know I'll do you think people are drinking less and spoken more pot. Yeah I think so. I think it's way more pot which you save money right. Let's hangover. I guess but I don't know that good. Have we normalized pot too much so I say this is somebody wants onto bonk? That was four feet tall graphics for football so great. It was unbelievable. We had a name for it. I can't remember the name of it. Oh man I I I mean. I don't even know what we're talking about it anymore. I will say this whatever the Deepak Chopra Type Shit. Whatever the fuck we've been talking about happens to be some of these things that are in the book So I don't know yet. What would that that was how it came up because you think about mental health. You were you. Were pretty open about that earlier than just about anything. I don't know if I talk about it if Tony doesn't die thousands. Yeah that was. How much Tony's in the book just a couple bits here. That's still to offer you now. I talk about it but it's also like I don't WanNa seem like it's like benefiting from it by talking about it more or less. There's talk about one one thing you know with him but he was like he was a big figure in my life so the thing. I have to think about was and the reason I decided to talk about it then On on my podcast was like Shit. I was always in situations where I only took from. Tony you know what I mean now. It's like man I never asked to pay. How's everything is anything I can do. Whatever whatever and me you just started thinking about that it's like shit that would be the dumbest thing in the easiest thing to do is just like ask someone right. So that's maybe just that also maybe help me decide. Just read the book Way It is right now so so may nineteenth. Yeah and a peach is the name of the book Bills Given me three quotes. I gave you three choices for a blurb of them made fun of you in some way. So I don't know what they picked and probably just edited the joke part. Yes good part because each one was a David Chang so great but then insult savages kept the cut the itself and You know hopefully it does well. There'd be a bookstore but you know people may forget book of Basketball Number One New York Times bestseller. You're how many how many weeks just the first week that was it. Yeah but that's an impossible thing for anyone to reach it was I I. It was for the nonfiction which was the hardest one to catch a battle. This is Aaron Rodgers talking about all the all the quarterback see the drafted ahead of them. What are all the books you beat? He's gotta remember? He knows she didn't remember. I just come on. I didn't remember it was like Super Freakonomics came out the same week. Mitch albums book had been out for a couple of weeks. It was like the Tuesdays with more sequel. It was like Wednesdays with Bob. I don't remember. It was called and then glad while had his book which was at that point multiple months on the list but still to crush. That's an insanely hard task was late October. Now I figured out a whole plan for and then. Espn books did their best to try to screw it up and I still did it. It was it was like I had the coach who was calling for the for the fourth and ten not punting throwing the Hail Mary into three people but it still happened. It was good that was another thing whereas there is this one day where it happened. Super excited had a dip. My Dad hat was in San Francisco. He found out as with some friends from high school. And My dad was there big dinner and it was and then the next day you wake up and I'm like all right. What sex your like Belichick? You're like all right now now. It happens only doesn't feels good for a couple of hours. But that's the name you'd think that would be the moment that I finally did it. But you're like you gotta gotTa work harder. That's what's so stupid about this whole you think he'd work less can yeah. I gotta find the suratis quote. The journey is better than the end. That's it but but that's how different is that. The Iraq survey come on Poncho So we got that. We got this season two and then Hulu show right now with Chrissy Teigen The name is still a work in progress but There's a lot and this. La Thing is happening. But we're we're here we're GONNA get here permanently. You'll see even here and then and then you've got to take the belt from the PAROUBEK grabbed that I gotta start making it a step it up feature films. Don't be satisfied. That felt back. Man fucking David Chang. A pleasure as always thanks bill. Thanks to house. Thanks to Chiang. Thanks to Ziprecruiter. Thanks to simplisafe everything you need in a home security system. An army of highly trained security experts dispatched police to your home in a moment. Stone is twenty four seven you can set this system up all by yourself go simplisafe dot com slash BS. Go there get a free simplisafe security camera normally hundred dollars go today. It's free simplisafe with two is simplisafe DOT COM slash GS godfather three watchable. Tomorrow and then This pods coming back. One more time on Thursday seen so.

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Yahoo Finance Presents: David Chang

Yahoo Finance Presents

17:20 min | 2 months ago

Yahoo Finance Presents: David Chang

"It. Welcomes, who finance presents I'm Andy Serwer and welcome to our guest, David Chang founder of Mamuka, Restaurant Group, host of show ugly delicious, and author of a new memoir eat appears David great to see you. Thank you for having. So of big question to start things off what do you think the state of the restaurant businesses in the United States given Kobe characterize things right now. Not Good. It's the covert has expose a lot of the underlying. Issues. All. Industries. Had and unthinking a lot of people have talked about but has been well known and documented. Announced been exposed, right the the fragile working environment, the six cost. All of these issues are now sort of front and center in. The conversation is what we do about it. The government is leads to intervene a little bit more not a little bit more a lot more. But I don't know what's going to happen in in. You know saying that it's a lot like that you thousand eight financial prices. Except that, it's not too big to fail too small. Ryan could be worth only you see all these small restaurants on you have the ability to tap. Initial backers presumably to know. But even still, no, we're we're we're we're a predicament ourselves. We still have restaurants. Costs haven't changed. You know it's this is an issue and. Even though we're not technically banks most cash flow that goes into restaurants goes dmitriy out only differences we're not charging interest and and. So, many other businesses are dependent on restaurants whether it's florist. Purveyors artisans. So this is going to have severe repercussions and I'm not sure exactly what's going to happen the issue really is this is an acceleration of ten to fifteen years and. You're going to have the middle squeezed out and you're going to have. Eventual. Recovery of high end in certain high end restaurants are doing well I think high end Sushi talion. Japanese like delivery like Sushi machi roles are doing well, but fast food like how are you if you're an independent restaurant how you supposed to compete against? Companies that have access to public markets. I I mean that's the thing is only applebee's going to survive and those are just the reality. Rhino. Foods and food has to get more expensive. Nobody likes to hear that. And Just me lies on. What we have to fix the model. You know we have too many workers that don't have health care. We have too many issues. About benefits and this is just We can't let this happen again, and one way we can do this is obviously charge warm because one of the issues that we've had is everything's got more expensive. It's what we can charge for food. And That's that's gotta change but the issue really is high fast food business. They're not gonNA charge more. And I say fast food. I think in incorporates a chain restaurants as well. They're gonNA probably drive their prices cheaper to drive out competition. So we're GONNA have a real issue here. Let alone the the lack of oversight for food delivery and logistics, which is giant business that should be government regulated and. This is this is a severe problem that is not being address. You mentioned the government should there be targeted bail out for restaurants the restaurant business specifically. Well. PP was people think that it was but it really was a temporary Gandhi and I know that they're you know we talked to a lot of elected officials. In terms of what needs to happen for restaurants I think that in the priority, it's not there yet. They need help local municipalities, pay hospitals in schools I. So I'm not sure where the money's GonNa come from, and secondly I don't know where their solidarity in our own business. A lot certainly, something needs to happen and I can see both sides of the argument on the restaurant end about what in how Inventions to be but. At this point I, we'll take any help. How do we design when to open restaurants and by how much I mean he saw the governor Cuomo just said the twenty five percent in. New York. It doesn't doesn't do anything in fact that just. Again If restaurants were limited to ninety person capacity, ninety percent of restaurants still because. I mean especially New York City. The model is built on one hundred percent occupants. Let's. Listen like let's look at the outliers on this equation, right? Because there's so many variables in minutia that are all really important. But let's just look at this one fact. If we don't answer this, then everything doesn't matter anyway. I would argue that at minimum twenty percent of top line revenue of a business whether you're small bar or high-end dining and everything in between in urban areas. Is derived from business corporate accounts. So you talk about private dining. Happier. Catering office catering in expense accounts that's at minimum twenty percent. I'd argue in New York that's probably a minimum thirty percent of top line revenue a healthy business, which is probably like less than five percent of businesses operate fifteen percent you know net like that is like a rarity. Where the hell is that difference GonNa Come? Because there's a vaccine as we can all see, cities aren't going to come back to pre pandemic levels especially, corporate environments, an office workers. So we just have to focus on that issue and realize wait this is a fundamental problem and how we're going to operate our restaurants and part of it as we need to start having pragmatic. Answers to real problems that we know are going to happen. They're not fun to think about that. The reason why we're here is if you just think about the lack of office workers or restaurants. How lived under? How are we going to fill that void? I don't have an answer and people talk about tax credits you there but that's again a temporary solution. So you know I, I don't like bring a Debbie Downer about this but I think that we need to come up with innovative solutions and I hope in coming up with impossible like an answer to these impossible problems. I mean, you've talked about the safe adjust reopening ran. Just, not GonNa Twenty, five percents nonsense. It's just nonsense we need to have protocol. When you have contacting, we need to have everything that Seoul Korea every other country. Has Except for America right now, for the most part right I talked to my friends in Europe talk to my friends. In Hong Kong China Korea Japan, they're not having these issues dining in is at a a a not normal per se but it's a lot better than what it is you. Get closer I mean, isn't the point though that would quote was trying to do is like, okay, it'll be criminal November I will be fifty percent of things work but you say we need tests Thought about them like how you're GonNa get there I get the. Most restaurants probably won't make two percent, right right and then you're gonNa have and again that's a temporary solution for the the beginning of winter coming. So all in a trolley car problem, right we have to figure out what is the the? Worst scenario and twenty five percent is just a random number. It's an arbitrary number, right? The end of the day you cannot operate a business particularly in New York City if it's not one hundred percent, it's. In right now. Employers and employees and guests don't feel comfortable doing. So so I don't have an answer. Right. Right. Let's talk about. Your book, a little bit shift gears EDP. So. You talked about some misconceptions about you and restaurants get into that a little bit for David. Could you elaborate on that? Well. that. People. Think that you know it's just maybe one just nice. Happy Narrative easy. So easy. Now. my dad immigrated this country nineteen, sixty, three, eight worked in restaurants for. Thirty plus years of his life. To make sure I would never work in restaurants in the reason being. It's incredibly difficult. It's so hard. And even if you go to a fancy high end restaurant, wherever seems flawless. It's it's not an easy way to to make a living. It seems glamorous, but it's it's. It's. It's a very difficult business that ultimately is a labor of love and you know. It's a calling as I say. It's not for anybody you wrote openly in the book about struggles that you had with mental health was that hard for you to to put down on paper? I think originally, it was incredibly difficult. Especially, when I first started a see how get help like two, thousand, three, two, thousand, four, I never thought in my wallet was imagination I had ever been so open about talking about it but I think as I've dealt with my own issues, my own mental illnesses become something that I've been able to share with other friends who've had their own issues and I think at the end of the day. As I've gotten older I think. At least I could do is like not be afraid and to be a little bit more open about it and maybe that would. Help people because the up your stigma attached to mental illness? Right. You also write about the male dominated world and sexism has that changed I remember reading kitchen confidential and you know Anthony was disturbed very matter of fact about it was. A long time ago now, things have changed and obviously they're the metoo moment has come to your to your world very much. So but any progress there or not? I think though entire industry is. Trying to ask themselves the questions of why right and in there is movement and. I've certainly been part of the boys club. Certainly, it's not just about to I. Think we're at a point about equality representation and opportunity and I think. Treating people the way you would want to treat it in. The industry particularly certain Kinda dining is based on the military. And a lot of that toxic behaviors I came from that and and I've been a bully and verbally abuse people in something that I've worked really hard on, but it's also. It's not the entire culture, but it's certainly been the part that has been celebrated and. It's long overdue that. People are saying this doesn't work anymore. In fact, it's never really worked and I don't know exactly what's going to happen but I think it's a good place where people are asking. Let's not let's not to. Continue this. Let's try to come up with a new solution a new way doing. Right. Talk politics a little bit Stephen Ross is an investor in your restaurants. He's back trump in a fund raiser you. Maybe suggested that wasn't such a great idea. I'm curious. How active can you get in politics without alienating customers potentially If I had the alienate customers to believe what I think is right then Soviet and. That whole issue of what happened is not something that I'm I ever thought it to deal with but You know I respectfully disagree strongly with with. anyone that Supports Donald Trump and. We're doing everything we can sort of. Do our do our part and. I think you can't in this day and age Nazi politics and It's not something you're supposed to talk about at the dinner, table but. In the world of food. so much of what you eat is literally. You know stems from. So it's it's something you should talk about whether it's immigration. Or the environment, this is all really important stuff and I just. I strongly disagree that you shouldn't talk all. I should ask you the top maybe but where do you restaurants stand right now? David. Interest opening carry out. Take out. All we've pivoted a lot of our restaurants to carry out and take away. Four we did that we spent I would say almost three months in probably. How many minimum three thousand dollars two, thousand hours. A developing standard operating procedure for safety protocol and protective equipment. once we implemented that we open sourced it so it could be a resource because we do have resources available us that other people don't. Because we're all in this together and we need solidarity one restaurant. Doesn't have answers doesn't help like we need everybody to operate on the same page. And you know we we you know two years ago. Our CEO Margaret Mary Scowl presented to the board an option to. Change revenue from the four walls of a restaurant being one hundred percent of our revenue just fifty. And that was our goal in five years so we've had a plan to. To to to. Enter into the consumer product goods business who did that with pines? And we we've been launching it. So we've had a lab for ten plus years were finally now in a position to start to sell it directly to the consumer. I, we had a plan that we were going to unveil for five year plan, and because of the pandemic we patch, it do that in six months so. We're doing anything and everything obviously to try to make ends meet but we are focusing efforts on. A lot of the products that we've developed and sounded we have Momofuku Chile crunch. We are savers salt soy sauce in a variety of metric products. So we've been sitting on a treasure trove of of RND and I'm incredibly thankful that we have that because this is this is something we strongly believe in a it's a very. Important part of our business in for. A couple of quick last questions you were in finance so for our audience. In Finance. Why don't you get out? Because, I was terrible at it. I mean, I worked for painewebber at a private wealth asset management. This is before was UBS. For a couple of years. And not surprise I was one of the few people that didn't get offered a job. Amber. My terrible I just didn't do Ellen's Bul. I was a religion nature and. Everyone I knew as either going into dot com like the ninety nine bubble burst or banking that was really it in my world. And not a surprise, I get a job really either place. So I entered the financial business. However, I could just was terrible added and I didn't have the aptitude work ethic and I realized even if I was really good at it, still wind up being average. Songs, like I can't do this. This is just I don't have a heart for it. Well food is out. There are glad you watched out David so. No loss at all and then finally what are you cooking during coroner? My God I could so much. First of all I cook for my son's been running around. So that's why I've been looking at this I know. I Cook for him a lot and it's a challenge is to get him to eat whatever I make for him these eighteen months. He's now at the point of a liking one thing one day another I don't like that. But I'm I'm making everything you name it for hot dogs to roast chicken too cramped, and at the Japanese food am a private chef to my family and I'm happy I'm doing that I I. It's one positive quarantine is being able to spend time with my son and my famine wisdom. I never would have been able to before so I'm thankful for. In their lucky ones. David Jang author of the new book. Eat a peach. Thank you so much joining us.

David New York City government United States David Chang Ryan Restaurant Group David Jang Andy Serwer Sushi machi Donald Trump founder Cuomo Gandhi Debbie Downer Hong Kong China Korea Japan Seoul Korea
Friday, Dec. 4: David Chang

The View

36:46 min | 1 d ago

Friday, Dec. 4: David Chang

"Subscribe to our podcast to get hot topics delivered every afternoon. And while you're at it rate us in labor review brand new news. Dark live right now holes apart. President trump is taken the maga- show down to georgia for the senate runoff election. That could shift the balance of power in the senate but will his own campaign to overturn the presidential election results and pro-trump attorneys rallying voters to boycott the runoffs be the recipe for disaster that conservatives are warning against. Y'all almost don't deserve to win. If you're that stupid frankly sorry and chain. He's the star. Who went were no celebrity is gone before on. Who wants to be millionaire. No one's ever gone for. If all off the star chef. David chang talks about becoming the first one million dollar winning celeb- in the show's history. And what he did with the money. Plus feel good friday on your deal here come hot topics with whoopie sarah joy behar sunny hostile in megan mccain and ana navarro. Now let's get things started. Hello and welcome to the view. Happy friday to everybody so just went. Republicans thought they were safe in georgia. Along comes trump. he's heading down there for senate election runoff. That could shift the power of the senate but there are pro trump rallies telling voters to boycott the runoff and trump is still insists he still insists that he won the presidential election. So here's my question. Is he there to campaign for leffler and purdue or for himself. What do you say sunny. I think there's no question that he is a narcissist and he's campaigning for himself. He wants to get those big crowds. I think he wants to see that. He still has that. He's still loved by his supporters. But i do think it's such a bad move. Because i really think a lot of the turnout especially in georgia was because people wanted him out of office. And so his allegiance with leffler. And purdue i think can only hurt them. I mean you have the wnba players now coming out against leffler. Who is one of the wnba owners and supporting warnock so this. Mii opinion can only go bad for those candidates. But i guess they're going to embrace it. I guess they're going to embrace it. Where do you think. Sarah thrilled to have uncle. Donald down there or not like the crazy uncles coming times thrilled about this. I think he's really excited for a rally. We haven't seen him in front of his people in a while and we all know that feeds his soul in his ego. So i don't. I don't think that's going to help anyone. And the other thing is we've seen the damage this is done when ronna mcdaniel said her name correctly was talking with the people you know earlier this week and they were saying why should we show up to vote. It's a rigged election. She's like no like let's not go there. We already see that donald. Donald trump could not control his narrative. We heard for years that at national security meetings. He'd rant about a interviewed seen the night before we saw him on most recently that facebook. That forty five minute tirade on the rigged election. You come down. Throw a rally in rage your base with how this is a rigged election. It's not gonna work out really for anyone in the republican of the gop. And i hate to go cynical on this. But i can't help but think it's a bit of karma like when you endorse a madman. Eventually you're going to be burned in right now. They're feeling the fire. I don't really. I don't i. Don't endorse any of the violence or any of the threats that are going on. I think that's awful. And it should be an denounced but right now is there squirming and saying oh my gosh. The republicans are imploding. And you know it's a civil war down there. Well welcome to the party. You know like we've been here for a while you make your bed. You lie in it again. It's true but do you feel like why. No i am enjoying this. That could you could. Tush you know what i mean. I'm kind of like digging it. How about you know you know what you know what they say when your enemies shooting themselves. Don't get in the way. Look if i were Loftier or perdue. frankly. I draw the curtains. The doors shut off the lights and somebody to wake me up when he's gone very nerve wracking because this is all about trump. This is really going there to support the candidates and it's the buckle you've got republican self appointed surrogate of trump's showing up in just saying don't vote because look at what republicans in georgia are doing. You've got trump attacking the republican governor. Brian campeau of georgia. You've got trump attacking the election officials who are receiving death threats. Who have bad for this to stop because people's lives are in danger because people could get hurt and then in the midst of all of this. You've got trump and the rnc announcing today. They have raised over two hundred million dollars since the election was over. This is a grip. This is donald trump. Doing what donald. John always does figuring out how to fleas gullible. People and line his pockets. He did it with the foundation. He did it with trump university. Yes this one. More trump fraud. Okay people are feeding his coffers. That's what this is about his eagle in his pocket. That's all the money. I think it's always about right. And as far as produce concerned. All i can say the chickens have come home to roost and then when we come back when we come back we'll look at what. Joe biden and kamala harris said about their plans to feed in their first joint interview. Role excuse me since. They won the election by. Oh still feel good to say that doesn't it. We'll be right back next. Doing strong women bring their views. She's new york's attorney general investigating the trump organization and biting his administration on the census. Now blit tissue. James is here. Plus cindy lauper to rashi p. Henson and emily blunt come to the number one daytime talk. Show the emmy winning hugh on. Abc still ahead superstar chef. David jiang's doing a victory lap. After becoming the first celebrity to win it all on who wants to be a millionaire and feel good friday on view your deal and welcome back so last night we saw something we haven't seen in four years a president and vice presidential candidate with a plan to lead. I mean not a candidate. There the elects i saying the the elect sat down with jake tapper for their first joint again with the joint interview since winning and promised they wouldn't repeat trump's habits like you know appointing unqualified family members to posts for example. Promise not to rage tweets and a whole lot more. Let's watch in the first day. I'm inaugurated to say i'm going to ask the public for one hundred days to mask just one hundred days to mask now forever. One hundred days on every issue that impacts the american people. I will be a full partner to the president. Elect and the president have been more than several sitting. Republican senators privately called me congratulate until the election is clearly decided in the minds where the electoral college votes they get. Put in a very tough position. So it's like we left the nut house and now we're entering disneyland. So let me ask you this. I think anna maybe did you get. Did this give you a good preview of hallo around the country. No sarah sarah's up i yes i think. Overall this interview was a lot of Feel good moments. It felt like help was on the way in fact president-elect biden even tweeted a couple of days ago my message to everyone struggling right now is help is on the way and the part that specifically jumped out was that the end of that clip was the way he spoke about republican senators. And this is always something i look for in. Any leader is the empathy. They offer that who is on the other side. And here's a man who's talked about collaborating cooperating. Working with the other side it would have been easy in this interview. He said i'll say this tactfully. This was president elect biden. And then jake tapper said you don't have to be tax when he goes no i. It matters i will. And i loved that because what he then showed was a certain empathy about the the difficult position. These republican senators are in. But it wasn't just the empathy. It was the strategy of it. This is a man that keeps talking about working across the aisle cooperating with the other side the fact that he might be dealing with the republican senate. This was such a great route to take. which is. Don't take the low hanging fruit. Don't stop on it just say. They're in a tough position. That's okay they'll come around. I just thought that was so thoughtful and deliberate and it mattered to me. I wonder i wonder if he's going to be able to do it. It's heavy lifting. Don't you think anna what do you say. I think he's gonna try very very hard. Look my takeaways from this. Were just how normal how sane how adult how productive the entire conversation felt there. Were points where there was one point where he said. This is jake. Tapper asked joe biden about prosecuting. Donald trump about the pardons and he said this is not my justice department. This is the people's justice department before trump. I would've told you. That's like a precedent saying the sky is blue but given what we're living through right now and seeing how donald trump treats william bar like his million and bill barr. Behaves like a million. And it's so refreshing. I was also heartened to see the relationship and the you know just how well the cooperation is between kamla and joe biden. And hoping that it you know it emulates what. The relationship was between joe biden. And barack obama and i loved his answer on diversity in the cabinet instead of him. Saying you know these. All these people do is wine and ask and he said that's what they should be doing. They should be pushing me and judge me when this is over because i planned to have a cabinet. That looks like america. I it was just. I mean really felt like like an you. Know new day is dawning. it's refreshing. It's a little boring though isn't it. I i wanna be born in twenty twenty one of the stuff to talk about sunday. You know it was boring normal. And i've been searching for their return to normalcy. And you know it was. It was just so refreshing for me that there are adults in the room. Now and that's what it looked like. It looked like someone who was presidential someone who's vice presidential and i loved it and i also agree with ana i loved hearing that kamla harris will be an equal partner much in the way that joe biden was an equal partner with president obama. We always knew that they had this incredible relationship. And i loved the. He said that she will be the last person in the room when he makes significant decisions that she has been in on every single decision that has been made and that she will really he said also that whatever. The most urgent needs are that he is not able to attend to. He has confidence in turning to her. So i'm really looking forward to seeing what she will be responsible for because we know that biden was instrumental in getting the affordable. Care act passed. We know that he was instrumental in the h one n one pandemic and so i will not pandemic but but the h one n one issue so i'm really thrilled for carmela and to see a woman of color being represented in terms of that level of leadership. It shows. You know. I think my daughter what is capable of. She's capable did anybody. Did anybody hear or see what romney said. I just wanted to throw that out before we go to break. Because i loved it. He said that trump's pandemic response is a human tragedy. I mean you know considering the party of silence on amid pandemic amidst the tragedy. He really stands out. I tip my hat to to romney. So i don't have time for that right now because we have to take a break up next if you if you're having trouble finding ways to set the mood with your partner these days save some quarantine date night tips. Do it for you when we come back atta an and how are like colo- come back. I heard stuff and welcome back. So since no one's going out on the town anytime soon a lifestyle blog gave tips on spicing date night at home like getting dressed in different rooms. I don't know until setting the mood by this. Is a good one laying scarves over lampshades cards. That's that's a fire high now. I liked to main. We like to maintain some distance. You know to keep things excitingly. He watches espn and moreover i watched saying that in the other. And that's how we every this fresh. So i'll start with you because i heard that you an like to play. Hide the you log or something. What's listen we had a really tough brokers knee out how covert we are in miami which is covert central. So yeah we we try to liven it up every now and then you know. I have a full bar and my house. I took starting room and decided something much more useful with the thing and you know so. I'll have theme nights okay. Today as disco night and i'll put donna summer the occasion high heels. He'll he'll dress up off the bar and we'll pick each other up in our home. I'll i love actors. They're making payers up. Can you please videotape. that really. Just set the camera on you so that we can submit alter egos who anna should be this week. Oh i'm i'm on a couple of i mean sarah sarah. I know you have three kids at home so well what's going on. Is there any chance of any kind of like romance. my go to is. I'd like to wear like a loose clothes. I always have sweatpants. Sweatshirts my husband. Max turned to me a few weeks news. Like who used. Just where something that's fitted. So i can see what's under there. I think totally put on a pair of jeans and a cute little shirt. But i mean times are tough putting on jeans was about as as dressed up as i could get for him but it did the job He seemed to be thrilled. I know what you should do. You know what you need to wear your sweats and just x ray yourself and send him the extra so sunny. Not the bones kurtz going on at the manse sunny now. We don't have too many problems with romance in the hostile household. I mean not here. Maybe doctor and nurse. He's a doctor. You can't come up with No that's not these times. i'm sorry. I said that but like he's an mba nurse and give the facilities tire so fine. You were happy what he's not being your tech your video. What are you guys do as the naughty cameraman up we do nothing. We do nothing with us. We're just an old couple that it's true. We know what happens with a couple of martinis. It's still. I didn't mention alcohol. Alcohol is a whole other. all right. We'll be right back celebrity chef. David chang talks about making history on who wants to be a millionaire and how he's spreading that cheddar around next so everyone knows that celebrity chef david. Chang is a virtuoso in the kitchen but as we saw on sunday nights who wants to be a millionaire. His genius doesn't end there. Wow take a look. Although he and his wife never cut the lights which for fear of being shocked who was the first president to have electricity in the white house. Probably harrison be benjamin harrison. Finally ob- snow. David chang metallic testicles just want a million dollars oh i love have they drag that out. Who that's amazing. I can't tell you. Because i was on that show. It's so hard to do so please. Welcome the author of eat a peach each and the host of ugly delicious david. Chang david beer great to have you here. You're so smart and you won the big prize. Sunday night on. Who wants to be a millionaire which we just saw the first celebrity to ever do it your fault your phone of friends. Espn's meena cimes. Help joe right. you couldn't now. You could've walked away with about five hundred thousand. You decided to risk at all. i mean what. How did you make that decision in your head. I'm going to give up a half a million. I'm gonna lose it. But i'm gonna go for. Did you really know. Benjamin harrison was the first one for sure truthfully. I didn't even know he was president. I really didn't know. And that was one of the towels. Maybe he might be the answer And obviously meantime is so smart. And she said probably benjamin harrison so. I thought that that was like a good chance. And i honestly it was not responsible for me to go and answer it. But i made a quick calculation that even if i got it wrong that would put a spotlight on the industry. Yes it'd be eternal embarrassment for myself. The rest of my life but at least people would be talking about the hospitality industry and i trust the intelligence of medications myself and thank god. We got it right then because big or go home jackley. Such a gambler. You are now you david. I dunno if you know this but you're not the only one around here who's won money on. Millionaire a couple years ago in november two thousand joy was on it to big. Seize the dilemma. As you can imagine you. Fifty five percent forty five percent of the guest right so we're really dealing with ten percent. I can't do and i'm gonna lose ninety three thousand dollars for this no way jose. Give me the money jack. Our own joy in her risk assessment but joy. Did you ask the level of anxiety that david did. What is that was twenty years ago. That's the level of anxiety experiencing my goodness years ago and how thin i was but yes i did. Because you're working for art. Gave the money to a catholic school in my old neighborhood and they really needed it. So one hundred and twenty five thousand. Which is what i want. Not nothing like do david. What went a long way. You know so. I was happy to do it for charity. Yeah but there's been inflation since then joy so we've got we've got put put that in there david you for charity and the million new one is going to the southern smoke which supports people in the food service industry. What are they doing to help. Well it's one of the few national charities that provide financial assistance to any restaurant worker in distress especially now because of the pandemic. So my good friend. Chris sheppard operates charity. And i thought it was a many charities that worthwhile this was the one that was easy for me to support and by the way joy. You made the responsible answer. I made the crazy answer. So i'm glad that it worked out. Yeah but i guess. I'm i'm actually a gambler but for other people. I can't gamble for me care to watch too much money to give up. I happen to save. Now go ahead. I have to say david. I'm filled with jealousy resentment over your win because every single time on jeopardy or chopped so congratulations on your win and as we all know restaurants and specifically restaurant workers have been hit incredibly hard since the pandemic started. I myself am a restaurant. Owner people have had to lay off their staff and in many cases. Close the doors for good all this while the government could help with a plan like the restaurants act which would create a hundred and twenty billion dollar restaurant revitalization fund. What do you say to the people controlling the purse strings here to get them to understand how dire the situation really is. Well sunny as a fellow restaurant tour. You understand that. It's almost less about the restaurants right now. And more about the people that work in restaurants that they need a safety net and they would need a safety net if we had an appropriate response to this pandemic and it's incredibly terrible and sad that that hasn't been the case. Hopefully there is a compromise reached in congress today. But i think the best thing that we can do in in in lieu whatever happens in between now and biden coming into offices supporting the georgia senate runoff. Because we're gonna need a long-term approach to help the hospitality industry and many hourly workers. Yeah that's right. We're on your team. So you've created an extremely successful restaurant empire but this pandemic has had an effect on all aspects of the industry. How will you making it work. Specifically in your case tell joint know. We have an amazing team Margaret scholar ceo entire team. Food goo a really pivoted and done everything we can. And all of the staff at momofuku. We've tried a little bit of everything but one of the things we relied upon is selling consumer product goods. We chilly krahn. We have season salts. We're developing soy sauce and sesame oils but we have that luxury because we've had a lab and we've had this plan in place to do this to increase our sales outside of the four walls of a restaurant but a lot of other restaurant tours and in chefs. Don't have that opportunity. But we are certainly fortunate in that regard but we still trying to make it the spring just like everybody else david before we go you and your wife have a twenty one month old son hugo who is absolutely adorable. Now you post videos of him eating food for anyone out there looking for some joy in twenty twenty. Let us help you by showing you. This see him best now. How do you get him to eat some finicky with food. What i mean he. He weirdly only likes delicious things. He doesn't like vegetables not a surprise but he likes things that just tastes good and it brings me all the joined the world to to feed him and it's really probably full circle as to. Why cook in the first place to nurture somebody to feed somebody with love and care and this pandemic actually has had a silver lining has taught me. That work isn't so important as being a dad being a husband and father so it's just been amazing feeding him and my family. Since i've been at home well you you do good works best mr chang. Good work all around. Thanks so much for coming on the show and make sure to check out his podcast. David david chiang show and recipe club on spotify. Who wants to be a millionaire air sundays at nine central note. Nine central's nine. Eight hundred eight signees eight sets. It was drinking which on. Abc god's unfortunate strong women the hottest toppings sharing their views. Right here. i want to say something about that. That's kind of where we are. And that's why the number one daytime talk show is the emmy winning view on abc Welcome back so not. As of people are on edge. Everyone's mirrors have been rubbed raw. So of course. What a good time for the united states transportation department to advise airlines to stop tweeting. Emotional animal supports Support animals as service animals. When obama was president. You could bring an ostrich on on the plane and everybody was gone now that we're in the middle of this crisis and we have pandemonium in washington. They decide they're going to change the rule so so you can't bring your chickens on the plane just saying how do you feel. I think it's it's tragic. It's tragic. I mean there were people that brought peacocks and stuff on the hundred plane and may have ruined it for chicken owners like myself but the bottom line is i guess. People shouldn't really be traveling by plane right now. Anyway during this pandemic but support animals are real thing. They really do help people with anxiety depression and he's sort of traveling disorder and i think it's just shameful. You know you can't bring your cat on. People have different relationships with their animal. I myself had wonderful relationships with my chickens. They can recognize up to thirty faces and making nice my face every morning. Okay that's so nice sarah. We'll add mother and other support animal. I don't know if you do white house. Always had dogs remember us to talk about them. But i so as a mother of three. I think we should ban the babies from the flights not the animals. I'm joking mckay's. Anyone isn't on with that but i think the mood little baby. Wait a second that little baby david. Chang's baby that baby cute but for those moments and then they cross over there like a lot. Kids are a lot. And i'm flights it's just not a good mix but one you keep having them. Hey i told you i stopped. We're waiting for this to be official like we need to stop but i. The motion will support animals just to clarify for sunny. The different things that we've seen on these flights duck a rooster a turkey a pig. A monkey peacock pony snake kangaroo. Where does it end. This is not a farm visit. The rooster recognize up to thirty faces. Well buffalo i. 'cause i don't think there's a place for this. I would not want to be the flight. Attendants separating anna from cha-cha on that plane. She she'll go out woman or man. I would not and right now. You'll go crazy if they take cha-cha listen chacha has more frequent flyer miles and i think most and cha-cha ah. I'm not sure charges my emotional support animal. I do know. I am her emotional support adult and the flight attendants her. I do think the size thing as always as always you know what they say size matters i people you know. Show up my best friend. Lee shows up sometimes with this two dogs that are shetland ponies and puts them on the plane. I it makes a little uncomfortable and people are allergic to cats. To being said as long as there's an exception for five pound miniature poodles. I'm good if not testing protesting. I tell you are right. I'll tell you one thing though. My verney has forty thousand followers on instagram. That should count for something. I'm just saying we'll be right back. Feel-good friday is in the house. You partnered with benders for at least half off cool kitchen and home products just in time for spending a lot more time indoors next since we are all spending a lot more time around the house these days we partner with vendors for half off kitchen and home products. You'll use everyday but it's only while supplies last so let's get shopping with our good friend. Gretta monahan you're going to love these so if you spend a lot of time in the kitchen sarah. Gel pro is the ultimate comfort solution for standing on hard floor soothing gel combined with high density foam provides a cloud like comfort and support of cushioning that you will not believe the maths feature bevelled edges slip resistant. Bottom in stain-resistant top surface. Big holiday upgrade for the home-court edge on believably comfy. Okay another smart solution. That i bring along today for the kitchen. Grabs is an eight silicone mat that you may recall from shark tank. I have use these as a splatter guard food. Cover pot grabber jar opener placement. Funnel utensil rest and non-slip matt and trivet the new butterfly shaped silicone midst. Make it so easy to grip any pot okay. Staying on the theme grip sick keeps snack chip and veggie bags along airtight yet to keep food fresh longer. Don't use it in your fridge. Freezer pantry no waste snap. Bags are made of one hundred percent food grade silicone so that you can steam reheat store food in the same bag. Plus their freezer. Dishwasher is say that's not okay so for twenty years home bizarre has been combining its love. A bird's not These bird houses are not only so beautiful. They are fully functional and decorative all wood. Construction includes bird friendly features and we have a huge assortment online. What i love about these is they make a great gift for any home. it says. Welcome to my shit. Even get a little faster table topics or something. I couldn't wait to bring to start great conversations. These make the getting to know you. Conversations easy and the really important conversation stress-free these options include pop culture past present future sports holiday and teens. You can even use these to take your zoom conversation level and place. Mats are also available which are just great for sparking fun and engaging conversations at mealtime so cute right next up sto joe it easier that pops yup collapsible reasonable cup. That's portable impractical dishwasher and microwave seat. These are made of lasting platinum food grade silicone. You can choose from beautiful colors. A range of sizes. They're great for kids and adults to replace disposable cups in great as a small gift. I love this stocking stuffers. Isn't that cute. i love them. And they're really well designed okay for any dog. owner Is awesome auto dog magazine. Easiest way to give your daughter your dog water. I might use that. Squeeze the bottle and water fills the bowl so your dog can literally drink anywhere. Sarah and then he just release it in the water drains into the bottle so you have no waste have no spills. Easy one handed operation. This is a useful when that masatsugu crazy. Finally the gift of relaxation. This is a four pound awaited heating built in massage. You control the temperature and the vibration. It's designed to provide gentle pressure heat and massage all in one convenient husband. I'd like it. Thank you so much demand the clocks taking you have twenty four hours to get lease. Amazing deals at deal dot com. Don't go anywhere and we'll be right back monday. Democratic senator joe manchin is live to talk about why he says the seventy four million americans who voted for trump should be a wakeup call for his party and the latest on the tension between him and congresswoman out andrea cossio. Cortez less oprah's upgrading. Your monday with her latest batch of favorite things on view your deal okay. Welcome back a few seconds that we have left and you want to say something to the american people yes The there is no more important election than they georgia runoff. Which is january fifth. But you have got until monday december seventh to register to vote. So if you are a georgia voter make sure you are registered. You can go to vote dot org. You can go online and look it up until monday doing now do it this week and do not let the opportunity to say go by listen to listen to the science. Have a great day. Take a little time to enjoy the view.

joe biden leffler donald trump trump georgia senate sarah sarah David chang biden one hundred days david wnba sarah joy behar megan mccain ana navarro jake tapper ronna mcdaniel forty five minute purdue Brian campeau
Americas Emmy Home Videos (with David Chang and Zachary Quinto)

Keep It!

1:51:39 hr | 2 months ago

Americas Emmy Home Videos (with David Chang and Zachary Quinto)

"Keep it is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. I can imagine that hiring someone during this pandemic is probably one of the most difficult things ever. You have to worry about enforcing social distancing supplying masks to your employees. They use. How do you find anyone? Well, Monica starts could relate. Let me tell you about homegirl Monica. Okay? Oh Monica tell me about it. It's a higher for a pivotal role and her Construction Company age group, but she was having a tough time finding the right person, especially with so many candidates out there. So she switched to ZipRecruiter typically doesn't depend on candidates finding you at finds them for you. It's technology identifies people with the right experience for your job and actively invites them to apply which is why you should try zip recruiter for free as ZipRecruiter, keep it you know, what that's how Monica from Lamont Jenkins and who is Lamont. She said ZipRecruiter sent her Lamont's profile around five minutes after she posted her job because he was such a great match for the wrong. Okay massage. ZipRecruiter monika's company has hired everyone from accountants to project managers to field scientists and she's not the only employer who loves their recruiter. So if y'all want to hire a large chunks of your own you need to go to ziprecruiter.com keep it cuz ZipRecruiter makes hiring faster and easier. Try it now for free at ziprecruiter.com slash keep it that is z i p r e c r u i t e r m i t ZipRecruiter spell it for your listeners who still don't know how to spell a podcast name. Look back with an all-new keep it off. I don't know Madison the third are we back? I moved. Yeah, I'm back. We're here physically. Are we here? All emotionally and mentally I am. Okay. I'll take take my sadness elsewhere. Okay, that's a huge burden to put on me to figure that out right now right at the top of the show. I'm Luis for Todd. I'm a dachshund. I think well, hi my Log Cabin Boy dog is how are we going and I haven't devoted any brainspace to learning that Katharine McPhee donated to the Republican party and it shouldn't mean anything to me because she is an Indian Idol runner-up who just got one NBC show one time, but she has played so hard to the gays on that goddamn Twitter that it is insulting. All right, tell me what you're talking about wage. Oh well, so have you heard of Katharine McPhee? Yes. Yes. We're here for that. Okay. Yes. Yes Mash American Idol and also waitress waitress on Broadway. So what's important to note about her American Idol run was there was a time when any lady singer with brown hair had to sing Black Horse & the Cherry Tree by KT Tunstall and she was one of those people. Okay. It came out this week that this woman who has been cultivating a gay fan base to the likes that I have not seen since Nick Jonas was near-naked on every game magazine cover and truly like if she released a video months that had her looking at her vanity and turning around to the camera and saying hi my gay boys, but also she just kept going. I mean like she references every gay sent off. Meme on her Twitter. She's always popping him. I mean like it's plan like there's some gay intern Mastermind running the whole operation. I'm sure it's not entirely. She taught herself. Yeah, right. I doubt she even would see most of these tweets, you know. Yeah, cuz it was just like the way that Katharine McPhee would constantly like oh a meme is happening online like the way that she would instantly sort of have a response. It's like a bitch. You're busy, right? Yeah. Are you like trying to write a packet for late-night? What's going on? Right since since you be given David Foster a sponge bath old man, you married off? Okay, so she's not being brought up in there has been a recent Fall From Grace, right? This is yeah. So this week this week. So one shared screen shots, cuz you know, you can look up people's political donations. She has been donating money to Republicans and not just to Republicans. She was donating to this website Red Wind, which gives you a log. To every Republican running for office and different races that you can participate in and she's also a registered Republican in California. Okay, I mean that makes a lot of sense now now that we talked about it. I mean it just points to what now feels like the most callous stream of Tweets in memory. I mean to just paddle out wage is like that and then directly directly contradict that quote unquote love for with this bullshit. It's just really surprising and I was I had to change from my limited experience with the show smash a team Karen fan because I felt that Karen was maligned for having natural star Charisma when Megan Hilty was just like all Talent, you know, and I wanted to be like the page. So on the side of natural X Factor but no longer. Listen. I'm not going to lie to kick it. You know, I like to Katharine McPhee. I like to earn smash as well. So, you know, I thought was I was shocked I was shocked to be honest people could try to be like, of course. He's married to David Foster. Like of course, she was a Republican and I'm like, yes in my brain. I should be thinking also David Fosters a republican town. I mean he did run over Ben Vereen, but David Republicans to yeah, right David David Foster worked with like hella Negroes, you know, I I don't know it seemed like he was an asshole but down anyway, I guess not right. So and by the way, I guess now I'm a Taylor Hicks fan, which is well, I'll turn he's a republican to God to me. Well, not Republican, but do you recall that he performed at the Republican National Convention? Oh, correct one, and then and then he said that he took it to be equal opportunity and he was awaiting an invite to also perform at the DNC. It was like I'd is this how you're trying to get press join Vela. Yeah. Also, that's a very Republic buy sneakers to type response. Yes. Yeah. Wow shocking the amount of white people that are secretly Republican. How shocked are we? I know I'm sorry to even have to like explainer this two people dead. That season that whole season is Awash Louis, who can we stand from That season of American Idol now wait Elliott Yamin is that season right have to do that. Yeah. We can you listen Elliot your mean off of that voice by the way, maybe I'm a Mendy's a stand. Did you ever consider? Yes. Yeah. Okay. These are good choices. Yeah, not Bucky Covington. This is not a problem coming taste podcast. I've been to say that well, we have a very exciting episode today. We have two guests joining us first. We're going to talk to David Chang restaurant tour and Jeff celebrity. Okay? Yeah, I think in that order definitely. Yeah and I get to be there for both of the interviews today very it's a rarity it's a rarity the streets have been either. I I was surprised people noticed. I'm like girl. I just asked questions like that's not be missed that you're surprised people noticed when it was just Ira Lewis acid questions. Yep. Third person on the show and four months at a time. Yeah. Our listeners are perceptive. Ayena ears ears. They have them shock shock. We will also be joined by Zachary Quinto making a return appearance to keep it. What was he here for last time and I was not here for the last time he was here last time he was here when boys in the Band by hitting Broadway and now he's here to talk about the film full circle. Yeah, that's history. I bet you're going to bring up Heroes a show have not seen though. I literally am so familiar with the rest of his catalog. So I feel about that right? Well keep feeling bad. Okay, I feel bad for having watched Heroes. The first season. It's awful remember hating penetration. Remember her? Yeah Nashville baby. Anyway, awesome scream for don't forget. Yeah. Yeah. Classic RRP Kirby she'd better be in five years. Of but before we get on with the show, I would be remiss not to bring up the passing of Ruth Bader Ginsburg this weekend and the office Cape that it has plunged us into this week watching a new Fox as I call it watching every rat Scurry above the SS GOP so they can get a nominee onto the court a conservative nominee and replace her seat. I mean, it's the woman money. She's the one person we're like culturally comedic Lee it became kind of a cliche to be obsessed with her and you know girlboss it up but it's also like just an unprecedented wage here in human history. I mean, it's just in a way like I don't even think I've spent enough time with it. She's I said on Twitter which sounded so kind of glib of me, but like it's really a Wikipedia that is amazing from start to end game. Just read it and but and I say this like I love Wikipedia, I think more people should go to it. I almost am anti museums and pro Wikipedia. Like I'm like, I'm almost far right in this way down, but you can you can get a lot of information on her really quickly and you don't even have to watch that Felicity Jones movies. So do it. Yes, cuz on the basis of sex is a bad movie indeed. Yes, my favorite thing about her. I had to go back of course and watch the Ruth Bader Ginsburg documentary on Hulu and I we spent so much time around Comedians and people who are personalities trying to be funny. I forgot the intensity of a sober person off and the intentionality of someone who is serious and cares about philosophical things and wants wants you to understand that you know comedy is not trying to get a joke off all the time and have my own place that I now call dissenting colors. So I I love very, all right, very fortunate very fortunate dead. To have had her as a role model in my life. And you know, I don't even want to get mad all the white feminists today is not the day for that for me. But I mean you could get mad at White feminists any time of the day you sure I mean it is a general state of being mowed a feminist. I mean you mean we're able to talk about Nuance on the show, you know, like there's there is the idea that Lewis brought up before, you know, the girl boss said was a unfortunate time in mixing of political discourse and like nonsense, you know, I mean, like I'm sure it's stemmed from the torious RPG, you know Meme that first started and then it became a book and then it became t-shirts and everything, you know, and it's just sort of just like cult of personality around her that could become exhausting. And by the way again, it's like there should be some of that there should be some of that, you know, yeah, but yeah, there should be some of that but I would also say that like since we're in Hell a lot of bots So that in a way that I specifically remember like would calls for like our BG to retire before right? Yeah, you know you were you were you were met with responses that were like this is sexist. This is ages et cetera. But then I'm also like the woman be cancer twice and also like fell down and broke her ribs, you know, so often after the third Hospital trip, I might have been like Hey cuz I'm going back to just this piece, you know about like the The Cult of Personality surrounding. I believe it since late June. It's I remember her saying you want like, I'm sure the next president will be like, you know, a very fine president, you know, I can leave the bench under him, you know, and this was during Obama and it's like I don't know what he was not now, you know and like, you know, like and I'm not expecting everyone to have foreseen America's descent into fascism coming off. We were in the middle of Obama because you know, I can admit that I was shot, you know, like we always have to say black people saw Trump coming and they saw him coming but I was shocked that white people just like so overwhelmingly turned to bite even their own hand just to curse Us by voting for Trump, right? So like didn't really see that coming but then like It's so hard, you know, like loving a political figure now and then like it's it's I feel like it's tainted so much of RPGs memory not that stuff the white feminism wage stuff specifically the fact that for the past four years like we've had her on deathwatch, you know, any glass breakable you can bring please don't die off while Trump is in office, please and then of course, of course because everything in twenty-twenty is fucked. It happens when we're days before the election not even days before the election people are already early voting. We're in the middle of an election, right? So again, she probably died in the middle of a one-handed pushup. I mean, I'm sure Thursday. We are the granddaughters of the witches you unable to burn. All right off. Of the but yes, you know I like I love so much about RPG. It's just like so unfortunate like a lot of things right now that like she has a pass at this time, you know, because there's is there proper time to mourn her while we're rushing to save democracy. Not really somebody who brilliantly was tweeting about Ruth Bader Ginsburg friend guy branum has a whole series of great tweets about her. So you're looking for something abbreviated check that out too. And I guess that just leaves me with the fact that today as we're recording. It is National voter registration day and you know, it is never too late to double-check that you are still registered at votesaveamerica.com / verify cuz this is an especially important election and it is especially important if you've moved since the last election changed your name, or if you have not voted in a while. So once you've checked make sure your friends and family have verified their register. As well and then head to vote save America., every last vote for volunteer opportunity to get new voters registered and the donate to organizations helping to get registration info to log in key places ahead of their deadlines. And you know, what sign up to be a poll worker. Yeah, and you know, we've got the get Mitch or Die Tryin thing going on and crooked which is highlighting important Senate seats that we can flip because you know, like we're going into this nightmare with Trump trying to rush in a Supreme Court Justice But like after that, we're going to have to like take back the Senate, you know, and after her death, like I don't even know the number anymore but like raise so much money for this initiative and so start looking into Senate races that we can support. I want to highlight Mike SB in Mississippi who could become the first black senator in Mississippi since reconstruction who is dead. In a very tight race with a woman who was joking about lynching like a couple of years ago. So, you know help that brother out also, he looks fine. So I'm a little off, but but he'll help him out and donate if you can we'll be right back with a conversation about this years and he's dead. So the Emmy Awards were on Sunday evening and not unless you were the Daya in the cast of schitt's Creek in succession sit down girl. Stay seated or Watchmen thought you were not winning anything and I turned off I would have turned off my zoom truly if I was nominated for a comedy and I realized that like schitt's Creek was gorgeous wage sweet. It might as well just be shipped sweet. I would have time ago right now if I have anything to do with the kominsky method, I'm running outside off of me walking outside because as you know, this was a award show that was broadcast from the nominees as homes, you know, it was TJ. Yeah, socially distanced images, you know, everyone was zooming in or well we'll get the specifics because Lewis worked on the show that is true enough. Basically. No one was at the actual ceremony and I feel like it's different when you were at the ceremony and you're watching a bunch of people win, at least, you know, there's the you know, people you're sitting next to you know, there's a camaraderie of being you know with everyone in the industry that you love like co-workers and then you have your drunk as well and then returning to go to after even if you did lose, you know, but if you're just sitting at home watching yourself lose in a ward feels kind of dark. Yeah, I imagine it's a quiet evening. Yeah, I mean and also it's it's harder to I don't want to say it's harder to pay attention, but it just yeah. What else are you looking for in the evening necessarily? I don't know. Yeah, you're right. There's no there's no extra value part of the joy for me was seeing someone like Alina wait sitting by Meryl Streep and thinking girl. What are they talking about? What could they ever be talking about and that's just totally lacking those totally lacking this year? Yes. Well this year the show was hosted by Jimmy Kimmel Louis's regular employer offer. You worked on the show this year. So I mean, yeah, that's what it was. Like, well first of all, I will and by the way, I think I've said something along the lines of this well before I work for Jimmy Kimmel, but he really is like a deal and that he has the Letterman sarcasm. And by the way, it was very interesting to see David Letterman and yet also is not over it and by that, I mean like he's like cool with the celebrities and not like dismissive are having to like turn off camera be like what a load of shit every five minutes, you know, I enjoy him honestly as a present her he does seem to be having fun doing it and it's not labor. Yeah, I'm away that we we've seen other people host towards I appreciate like a palatable host humor. That's just in good fun. Like I get tired sometimes of like a Ricky Gervais some like why are you glad you log? Right take the job. You clearly don't want to be here and also like the narcissism of being like we're all over this. Right as you're paid so much money to host a fucking thing. It's like it's just it's just the the worth of masculinity to me is all I can say when I think of things like that note was super bare-bones. I was actually just thinking that I don't know if you guys feel this way writing from home on all the stuff you write for but it has made me grateful for college because I thought now all entertainment writing I do right now like writing jokes Etc feels like writing a term paper. You're not surrounded by anybody you're just like alone and so literally writing for the Emmys has felt like my day job and it is felt like oh, yeah writing tweets or whatever. I didn't get to go to the ceremony there only a couple of writers. They're obviously it's there's everything occurs on my living room couch now, so it's I felt as unmanned cameras, as you know, Laura Linney sitting there waiting for his end day at a win something convenient to being able to write at your own pace, like even for this podcast being able to you know, think about What I'm going to say and have that written out kind of in a way at least in some of the structure even though it doesn't appear to be that way at all and also writing for other shows. You've been it's especially it takes away the intimidation factor of being in the creative space with multiple people when you're by yourself is like there's a screen girl. I could go to the bathroom. I can turn my camera off which I often do. So. Yeah. So Louis, what is it like doing ceremony? First of all, even in general for people because we know that you wrote for the Emmys, but how does that and then entail you know for people listening you still having to be like on hand during the actual show? Oh sure. Well in the case of this year's Emmys, I mean, I imagine most years the bulk of the work could be broken down into a, you know, little assignments like right for Jennifer Aniston age to go toward or write some patter for David Letterman appearing or whatever but in the case of this year, we had to write a lot of what-ifs stuff in case like a winners Wi-Fi went out or off. You know some somebody didn't show up who was supposed to show up on screen, you know, things like that. And so it actually was a lot of covering bases in a way that you would never have to do with an M. He's otherwise and I wrote a lot of stuff. I was just out of that will never see the light of day no sense to just Trot out this year, especially if we're just talking about the winds. We kind of predicted most of every you know, and you know, like we have that whole bit set up with the Stanley Cup being there in case schitt's Creek Slade and I mean me personally I thought they were going to lose one or two. So I was wondering if that bit would even fly but of course I shouldn't lose a fucking thing. So that would canadastays winning now they can go outside and they can win a war so jealous watching them just be in that room. Happy birthday ready to go. I was going to ask you since there was like everyone was working separately. Was there any transparency but whose jokes were being used or whose writers like which writer was getting bits dead? Oh, there's a lot. There's like a huge list of like approved jokes and approved bits that said until I saw the final document of like for instance the monologue like that's the only place where you saw definitely we're going to be saying these jobs, you know as opposed to whatever happened later in the show. I love the monologue. Although I will say that it was almost M Night Shyamalan in level of wage how long it took for the punch line. It's joke because cuz I'm sitting there watching it with like her roommate and things I really like what's going on and it's like At first at first I was like if they're using clip from old Emmys, um, if I were an actor who was being used in one of those clips like shut down one more Sarah Hyland is just like uproariously laughing something that Jimmy says I would have been like, well, I didn't actually find that joke as funny as the thing. I was alive right off. But it was it did end up when it revealed it like Jimmy in the empty audience with the cut-outs very VMAs because I remember doing the VMAs for a m m t v one year and they had fallen like cut outs of people and that was fun. Seeing that Rita Ora was like in the second row what I liked about that bit. And as I was watching it, I kind of had forgotten how long it was going on and it was watching it's actually nerve-racking being on this side of the curtain watching people on Twitter being like what is this what's going on know I could expect to be like I could explain but then Jimmy then countering with of course, there's nobody here was like exactly the right tone to take with that. I thought and then Jason Bateman Thursday actually is what then made the joke really land for me. Right? Right right him being the sole person in the audience among the cutouts. I have to question my sense of humor every time I laugh at a stupid little word joke birth. Panda me is was a home run is really got me. I want to say I've heard that word now like over the past two months a million times. So it has no humor for me. Okay, so you're set Panda wage and I'm just like nuts not funny in one ear and out the other as we said we expected a lot of the schitt's creek wins. I expected Watchmen wins as well. Very excited for my friend cord Jefferson for winning then my dear friend that okay, cuz fan. Yeah. We left card. Let him on the pot show me I would love to have brought on what I texted him after he wanted to congratulate him. I realized that some of our last texts were literally two days before the shutdown was happening. We had plans on Tuesday haunted and then everything and then everything was shut down on Sunday. It was like, oh hey, yeah cuz we had had dinner plans the week before birth. Or and had to reschedule them because I had a work thing and we were like yeah, just let's do next Tuesday know right now. There was an experience $0.01 down. There was no Tuesday my favorite 1954 sci-fi film. But aside from that were there things that we that happen that we didn't expect cuz I expected Washington success and and schitt's Creek to sweep actually, cuz those were the three shows people were talking about I will say I didn't expect Watchmen to miss in the Jean Smart Universe to me. That was one of the main things. Yeah, and she lost to who so Duba and Miss America, which is a really great performance. Actually. It's a fabulous performance my favorite performance of the miniseries to be honest. Yeah, Shirley Chisholm stuff was the only thing that riveted me, you know, I was not a fan of Miss America like you were yeah. Yeah. I wanted it to be surely we talked about it on the podcast that it would have been a much better use of time. I think if it were real. Shirley Chisholm in my opinion and also I mean like now for instance people like Gloria Steinem and talked about how this whole movement did not revolve around Phyllis Schlafly in anyway, you know, I mean revision like that we read along right at that way, but we do want to see Cate Blanchett smile slowly at in a villainous way. I do want to say that but in terms in terms of the schitt's Creek area of it all I will say. Hey call Catherine. Oh, yes, right. I remember you told her I figured your gear and she was like, I don't know. She did know that's Canadians talking. I can't think of another award show down there. Anything has gotten zero nominations up to the last season and then one everything that there's nothing like that obviously, sometimes you have like a Jon Hamm who was rewarded after years of being nominated Burt Kyle Chandler of Sarah Jessica Parker, but that's the entire show. No, no every single thing like it almost it's a little mind-boggling and it speaks to the state of what's going on in Iraq. Rest of Comedy I think a little bit more than what is going on in schitt's Creek, which is an agreed-upon lovely Pleasant very funny show, but for it to win unanimously everything. I mean, it should have us all questioning. How much were laughing at T these days. I think yeah, it was so funny seeing that because it reminds you just of the fact that one schitt's Creek was basically an unknown entity off to us for like his first two seasons, right? Yeah, and then once it hits Netflix like it became so insanely popular you have like Mariah Carey tweeting at Dan Levy, you know being like I loved schitt's Creek stuff like that, you know, so it really became like this cultural phenomenon as it was ending right? It's a global phenomenon and its serendipitous. I guess that it happens in its fourth season because how exhausting would it be if this became like a modern family and it was like schitt's Creek just kept sweeping every year. Right, right, cuz that's what can send to happen at home. Emmys as opposed to the Oscars just because movies are different, you know, so like an actor could be nominated back-to-back years, but the performances are doing and the people they're up against are different. But for the Emmys for the most part, it's largely people being nominated against people that they were nominated against last year for the same performance totally and like in a way I do like that about the Emmys that there will be runs of people being awarded again and again because why shouldn't they be the best still like I get like Rhea Perlman didn't start suddenly start sucking or whatever, you know, so like those things I think are genuine and authentic to the spirit of awarding the best in a category that said it's also nice when the end of a series is rewarded cuz now next year there's all the suspense about whatever we're going, you know, maybe Linda Cardellini will jump right up next year. Who knows? Yeah, lastly I would say that I really enjoyed Zendaya's way. Oh, yeah, obviously, I mean and I I mean month. Me she was amazing and I was like, yes, I would love that. She won that fucking award. I didn't expect it. Yeah, and I was spoiler. I predicted it's in my tax to the other page. Just let everybody know. I was on Sunday as Trail. There's reasonable. Yes, it never expect black people to win. So, you know, that's true, especially when they're up against white people but I I did I did expect that when I think I'd love that we're having a conversation now about it being an upset and what that means. But yeah, well paid six was also I feel like partly trolling but they call there was a big article about like Zendaya's upset when at the issue is and then it devolved into people not knowing what upset when but then arguing back and forth. Like it wasn't an upset. She was the best of the year. And so we knew that she was going to win someone's Trust Em like the Emmys reward youth like so we knew she was going to win. I was like, none of that is true. The youngest woman to ever win lead actress role. Yeah also just because we know she was amazing. Does it mean like the old people voting for the job? Is our new remote that you know the upset situation though. I did just want people to go to a dictionary and look at the second definition of it. Just because you know, that would have cleared everything but also, I mean that's what Zendaya fans do unfortunately. All right, I once had to delete a comment from her Instagram when in a photo of hers and I was like I am gagging over this outfit cuz and fans are responding to me saying why are you saying that she makes you sick? Okay meet a gay person. I also just wanted to say quickly a trivia question. So easy to just said she's the youngest drama actress winner at the age of twenty-four. Do you know who the previous holder of that record was at age twenty-six was it was it in this Century? It was Anna Paquin through Thursday. It is a natural it it was actually last year's winner Jodie Comer. Oh, wow. Judy covers only 27. I know it's got mine plugs. That's so no. That's so unfair wage. Justice has to be sought out now. I really do need to kill Eve and I don't even remember. I was going to say that Michelle. Do you watch the show? It's okay. Now if you didn't know yeah, that's fine. I know I remember I watched the first season and then I was like, I don't know like the only good season and if you didn't like that one, I promise you don't like the rest cuz it spiraled out of control. All right. Well, thank God for that inside tip on the Emmys OS interviewing you today. My day will come on this podcast. No. Let me cancel the show. Trial Lewis is booked for keep it actually you know what this week is I lost episode ever wage right when we'll be right back with David Shea. This episode of keep it is brought to you by Netflix from the creator of American Horror Story and starring Emmy Award winner. Sarah Paulson. Netflix is ratchet tells me that original story of how the iconic Asylum nurse from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest Mildred ratchet came to be I just want to point out that Sarah Paulson follows two of my friends on Twitter and not me and it is on my mind constantly. I'm one of them's way does she follow you? Yeah. Well, I did interview Holland Taylor that one time right? Oh God, I wasn't here for that. My mistake ratchet is the psychological never before told stage of how a damaged woman became one of the most infamous female villains of all time this thrilling and suspenseful drama delves deep into the dark and Mysterious World of nineteen forties psychiatric hospitals were new and unsettling experiments check on patients have forced Mildred Ratched to reckon with her past. And anyone that stands in her way. Is it Mercy Madness or both ratchet has a star-studded cast filled with Femme Fatale per month. 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Our first guest today is a well-known never been able to use the word tycoon in restaurant speak, but it feels appropriate now. I always think of the word Tycoon just with that game Roller Coaster Tycoon. Oh, yeah. But yeah, if you're pretending that's the first use of the word it's not but okay, but truly you're like the acclaimed founder and Chef of Momofuku restaurant group host of Netflix ugly delicious. And now you have a memoir eat a peach David Chang, you're doing it all and we love the book Thank you so much honor to be on your podcast and change that you guys have read the book. It's I don't know why I should be surprised but it's it's very startling. It's full of such casual insights about your personality to one of my favorite Parts. Yep. Is you say there's no such thing as a TMI email in terms of your business in terms of what like employees are talking about Etc. And I want like you you will take any insight about what's happening in any sector of the restaurant and and probably store it and remember it. Just what are your favorite like emails you've gotten from staff just about what's happening in a restaurant. I'm sure that actually ends up fostering like a super social environment with his customer interactions that that that's my favorite or something unbelievably stupid that someone did like a cooking disaster. Those are those are always the best ones probably my favorite thing is when a manager is riding a log at the end of the night and it's been an incredibly tough day for them, you know, they still find a way to crack a joke, whatever joke and and usually it's funny cuz I feel like the restaurant industry at least for me. It's been less about the cooking over the years then who can be the funniest person in the room. Well also even in a situation Just like talking about what happened during the day. I feel like jokes are necessary because this this sounds philosophical. I don't mean it to be but like sense of humor is like truth-telling. So I'm sure it just brings you all closer together makes the restaurant better off go ahead and wax wax comedic Louis speaking of emails and he was really interesting to me in the part in your book where you were talking about the anxious emails that you were sending to your staff in preparation for Annie. She's visit from Pete Wells and I really like it was interesting to see the underbelly the under pork belly. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm going to start off the underbelly of of your operation and how you interact with your staff and you know how that critique deeply affected you I wanted to know are you going down any holes with the eat a peach reviews? Nothing you have any reason to but how are you doing with that? Of course, I've I've read them all. You know, it's it's just I mean, I'm a glutton for punishment and I don't really remember anything that's positive. I only remember the ones that are like this sucks. So I thought that day Chang was an asshole. Now. I know for sure. He's an asshole or something like that. No. No, it's it's a strange thing. I think that was my reluctance of doing a memoir was not again that what's wrong with me type of why would I want to write about myself that's a whole different topic but a lot of people hate us and it's not because it's poorly written what if it's really well-written but people like I hate it because I I think he sucks that's really a possibility and and and I'm glad that that's not the case if anything people are like, yeah, he sucked but he's working on becoming a better person so that I thought I can a sympathetic draw. Yes. Yeah. I mean even just thinking about that, you know, I feel like the book Taps into the idea that when we think of famous chefs, especially to like the outside people who aren't really, you know, part of the restaurant industry. Like when we think of shuts we largely think of this culture of like a chef who is sort of like a they yell at everyone in the kitchen, you know, it's like oh that is the kind of person you think of when you think of a chef and it's easy to see that like in pop culture too. And I guess my question is just sort of like, what is it like coming up wage in that culture knowing that like that is a thing that is generally like rewarded like people are used to like a chef like that and like what made you sort of become a person where you are like, I want to become like a different kind of Chef cuz there's parts of the book to where you talk about. How like you remember in the past, you know, like a diner would be and like that one review from the diner when they talked about like they were unworthy. The book was like you yelled at someone on the line while they were sitting there dieting. I don't know if it's it was like an immediate Awakening and the way I I tell myself and you you know. At least sometimes it's it's if you can sort of understand a scenario that I think a lot of people can understand or been in the smelly kid growing up. Never knew they smell right right totally relatable. I was a smelly cat that was like blaming everyone else for the smell that motherfucker over there. Are you fucking sting off and it's a painful realization when you realize that oh my God, you are the one or maybe you weren't the one that smelled but you were the reason that other people smelled bad or something along those lines right off her. It was when you realized that it's hard not to look at your past and be like, man. How was I so stupid and selfish and just ignorant and just an asshole and you know, and I think I've been in that position to where that painful truth is. So often helpful and you put your head in the sand because it's it's too much to comprehend but I think it's something that you can't avoid in you're going to have to face that one day and that's that's ultimately what happened with me and you know that it's just, you know, this terrible odor is lingering and and no amount of perfumes going to get rid of that. You're just going to have to like, you know deal with it properly and that's the ultimate realization that I have to come to and but it's not even in the sense of you know, are there just like past relationships with other chefs or like people who come into the restaurant, you know, like the moment where you're sort of like trying to let people know that like, oh, this is a different David Chang than like the one that you've used to interact with, you know, because I could think that like the process of becoming a better a different person, you know is is is always interesting wage. Your brain knows that like I've been going to therapy like I've worked on these things with myself, right? But people that you run into like if they haven't seen you in like three years, you know, like they don't know that and you can't do anything about that. I think for a long time people still thought and people still think that I'm probably the I'm noxious asphalt from age 27 day like 29, right? We're just stuck in that world this mentality that were always of that age in of that mentality and I can't do anything about that. The worst thing you can do is say look at me I've changed. I think the only thing you can do is let your actions speak for yourself. And the thing is too is just because you know doesn't mean again it's actionable. Yeah, right just because I know that I change it because I know that I have problems just because I've worked at it doesn't mean that I'm accustomed to actually making it part of my fabric of who I am every day. And and the reality is that whoever I am as a person that is unsavory in some ways. That's like my normal. Volte settings now and I think in the book and not just in the book, I like in my rage in my anger and a lot of my non neuroses, but just my general mental problems that are not depression related to being sort of I guess some of its related depression to being an addict right and if you have friends that have addiction issues whether they be drugs or something else, you know, it's funny in society now today if you have a friend that's an alcoholic or recovering force a heroin or opioid addiction and they fall off the wagon, but you know, they're in Earnest, you know, they're trying they're not trying to use it as a crutch. They're literally trying you don't tell them, you know screw off can't believe you failed again, you know, you suck. I can't believe you fell off the wagon again. I think that right now it's a long time, but I hopefully people can appreciate the the Nuance wage. In this in a world where there's little Nuance, especially in social media. How do you determine that someone's intent is right because it's something that I've learned again over the past few years is with the kitchen. I tend to judge everything on absolutes that works in coding that works in science that doesn't work in human interaction and and honest offer a whole school of philosophy where you know, if you try to apply science and academic rigor to that that's how the world goes sideways. That's how you get to tal itarian governments. That's how you get Nazi Germany and shit like a that right? Like I know that's a crazy, you know statement but in some ways it's easy to do because it's so reductive and you could be like, well you should act this way because it makes sense but it doesn't account for how we learn at least that's how I believe it. I personally learn from screwing up and having the time the privilege to reflect and to be told hey you didn't do this, right and this is now compounded wage. More now that I'm a father right? I think the hardest thing to be as a person has to be present. I think being present is the ultimate end goal we can have photonic ideals as like North Stars wasn't me? Like there's only one way to get there and being present as a father being present as a manager being present as a chef those same ideals to me or like what makes like the best version of like democracy like you have to build the right framework. You have to build a sand box which is ultimately like a constitution, you know, the culture of how you do your family how you do your business. These are the things that you sort of instinct But ultimately you have to give people the freedom of choice and you can only hope in aggregate in your decisions in your lifetime. Then you make more right decisions than wrong. And that's the hardest thing to do is to not intervene. Right? But all your work needs to be done prior to that and that's impossibly hard to do and that's sort of what I'm track focus on is myself and hopefully other people will let me do that too is is like if you judge me on one thing that I've done poorly then yeah, you're right. I'm a fucking terrible motherfuker, but first of all, you should be I mean not to say that right now and then second. Secondly you were just being self-deprecating about having written a memoir like that was a memoir unto itself. You just popped Memoirs not even thinking about it off but something I've been thinking about for a long time now ever since the Advent of probably Top Chef is what is it about chefs. That is so telegenic literally any show you watch I think bush has chefs on it. Like they are routinely brilliantly expressive. They are memorable and then weirdly food, which is something you can only consume in the present in person if you will wage, It's still works as a t show and I'm wondering like what I was watching ugly delicious just the other night. I was thinking like why is this good? Why can't I sit through this when it's literally about something I cannot consume. Can you explain that well-off on the chef? And I don't know. I mean, maybe it's because they have a combination of extremely high emotional intelligence and Incredibly low awareness package perfect for television. It's also possible that there's a tendency in a correlation of being like borderline sociopath and telegenic on T. I don't know off speaker and on the food and I think it's it's clear that as food has just increased its Awareness on T and social media it is because in some ways the cultural currency of a younger generation because it is the definition of foma. I'm eating this and you cannot and you can't download this on an app store purchase. You can't like this you can like this but you can't meet this that's never going to change its which is why is in culture right now is sort of transfixed on what food can be because it can't be what else is in culture right now. I mean speaking of fucking fomo. I was re-watching ugly delicious episode and I I fully had money grants to go to like Noma this year, you know, and now the pandemic happened and then I'm watching that and it's just reminding you of like you're seeing you saying restaurants that you want to go to say you're seeing like food that just like looks so fucking good and it's like, well, I can't go especially now cuz we're in the middle of a pandemic and sort of like, what is that like for I mean your restaurants are open for lunch takeout right now. Yeah, some are some are dining in and and I don't want to depress the audience on the on the Dismal dystopian future of restaurants here in America. What makes it off. Or depressing actually is when you see restaurants in other parts of the world like Copenhagen Denmark where there's like no transmission of covid-19. You didn't have to wear masks. Hmm. That is what's like stretching to be is you can go to normal right now. If you if you want to go there and people are eating normal. It's like normal. Yeah friend. Did he just moved to Copenhagen truly two months before the pandemic he moved there for a job and now he's like, well, I'm here. Yeah, hit the lottery. I hate your friend took a hip Alex cab. I never want to meet you ever and your boobs are my restaurants if you ever make it back you married off, but no it's it's it's this whole situation is incredibly depressing because not being able to go out to eat having to eat dog. That you might get sick or even if that's not true anymore, but just the fear that takes all potential possibilities of true Hospitality away off and how can you do your job in a you know a fog of fear and it's it's unfortunate and and it's I have friends in all in restaurants all over the world and I can't believe that our leadership in this country. Obviously, you know your network talks about it a lot. It's so incredibly bad and how they responded you the hospitality sector. It just shows you what's important to them. And and it's it's a I cannot actually comprehend how poor the response has been across the board but we're going to lose tremendous amount of restaurants. Let alone not even travel right? So I'm not even focusing too much on what's happening outside of the world because it makes me quite upset. Yeah. To the running list of failures from this Administration, but you know, I speaking of it in your book. I'd be remiss not to mention how open and vulnerable you are when you talk about your bipolar disorder, which is 1 something I struggle to do because I I want to add like an Arab honesty when I talk about my bipolar disorder, but you know, you don't want people to know that you have these highs and lows and they're not allowed them to judge you on that which is the opposite of what you do in this book. You're very honest about it and what I'd never seen before is someone talking so openly about how their Mania isn't inherently bad and that it has its upsides and how it propels you to get shit done and I wanted to know especially when you're opening Momofuku for the first time. How did you use the manic side of you to propel you to success? Well, first of all, thank you for sharing with everybody, you know your struggles and I mean, these are the things the the steps that are needed where you know, ultimately the goal is to have people look at any kind of mental illness as having asthma Right. It's it's not something that you should be ashamed about and in terms of me being open about it. I think it was not always like this. It was years of therapy and the first you know several I didn't want to tell anybody and now you know, those that are close to me when you tell them they're like, oh, yeah, that's what makes total sense. You know, I mean, I know part of them over the years I was a little bit more open to it is, you know people I would never been shy about telling people that I saw a psychiatrist but a lot of people when you add probably five people over sixteen years that adds up every year someone seems to come up to me and say hey Dave, you're fucking crazy. It seems like you get help. What do I do? Right and and the fact that it's impossible to get help. It seems It's So Hard even now I'm a name in Los Angeles, and I need to get a new psychiatrist just to prescribe medicine. I have called three psychiatrists from my internist in Los Angeles and not one has called me back. Besides like multiple calls. It's it's a very hard to get help in general. I think and more more so than ever and in terms of how the media has helped me. You can't connect those dots too much money and you have no idea when you're in it, right and and their moments where I look back and I'm just sort of like, oh my God, how how was I even behaving that way? I need the hardest thing to admit is that you have faith agency in how you behave But ultimately know and and not having control of that and knowing that there's someone else, you know, pulling the levers and the steering the wheel is frightening so I don't really look bad at life on me. I'm more like how do I do to move this and see that there are some positives and at the end of the day one who's and I've been open about it is, you know, more and more. I look at everything as an eye either-or proposition. It's like who cares, you know, I mean like like who cares no one ultimately is going to Care in in in maybe if I'm more honest about it. It will actually help where people won't wage. Should have got yeah, I mean I have to imagine too that what is helpful too is just projects things to do, you know and like you're you have a lot of projects but even just like being a chef and cook a gang it's probably something to focus on you know, I feel like one especially during this pandemic so many people have started cooking themselves even more than they used to I know I have found this this weekend for the inmates. Actually. I made the chicken wings from the Momofuku cookbook. I think I saw that I think you were the only person in the world that took home and took a whole weekend and I made sure to read it cuz I had read the first line first where it said like this is the longest chicken wings recipe of the world. So I was like, okay, so I whatever I do I better start this on like Friday and they turned out they turned out fucking great. So thank you. You're welcome. Did you save the jelly I did it is dead. And my friend never throw that away that's Liquid Gold. Yeah, I do have to do it with confit next time. Yeah. Now that I have that I'm shocked cuz I would never make that recipe at home ever off. But but you're right in terms of which is why I have maybe like this profound love and hatred of my profession is because it does provide me with many opportunities to work my ass off to give me unrealistic goals that are very tangible, right but seemed impossible which was like, I thought so much of who I am what I do to mountain climbing even though I don't find mountains, which is obviously a reference on the book because it's like, yeah, I could climb that mountain top. I don't know how fucking how I'll do it. But theoretically I could page and fact that that is an impossible yet tangible goal is how I frame a lot of these things that happen whether it's making one recipe because inherently as you see I'm a lazy person. I don't know. Do it myself but throughout my career. I've made myself. He's really tall tasks that are so hard. If I don't pour myself into it won't even might get close to being accomplish and yet by doing that it prevents me from sort of worrying about myself and and the self-loathing that I'm so good at. So I also recognize that by doing that it is very problematic because it prevents you from enjoying anything else, you know, you become single-minded focus on something that's impossible that it doesn't allow you to enjoy the good times right you're is just it can be debilitating right and and you're like, why why why did I do all of that work? Because ultimately I think for me without trying to watch philosophic about it again, everything should be in Pursuit of Happiness and why am I if I can doing this if it's also been making me more unhappy and I'm currently in that predicament right now, so I'm still working my ass off on a dog. At a place where I'm just re-evaluating a lot of things. Well, thank you so much for being here. Got it. I made week we could there's so much more we could have even talked to you about the the Memoirs great home. And by the way, you will just like I don't mean to be cheeky swallow it up. So fucking fast. It is a lovely lovely devour it. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's a it's a great read and I can't honestly can't wait to get back to New York because not noodle bar fuku is one of my faves. I honestly I first had that chicken sandwich at Palm Beach Ella. Oh, yeah Beyonce's Coachella. I went cuz that was my first Coachella there was I was like gotta go see Beyonce and I remember where like in this like 10, like there's all these different restaurants and like people are just like walk in line for this fucking chicken sandwich and I was like, you know what I'm doing it and then we got in line for it and I was like, this is so fucking no idea. You are a real supporter so far, but yep. So maybe one of the last things I should have been eating at a musical world when I was a little drunk. I consider you a chicken sandwich in either the bravest thing you've ever done. It's exciting. Well guys, it was a real pleasure to be here. Thank you for being great hosts and so easy to talk to you also. Thank you. And again, thanks for making chicken recipes and the support. Thank you for reading the book and I'm very grateful. Thank you for coming on. Yeah sure dead sleep. It is brought to you by drop off if you're doing any shopping at all this week. Make sure you check out the drop at before you shop drop is the easiest to use Rewards app that gives you points back for shopping at all. Your favorite Brands. I'm talking about a Starbucks. You know, I have to get my cold dead. I'm talking about a Kat Von D eyeliner at Sephora a burrito bowl from Chipotle. You know, I need these three things to make it through my week the points that you earn turn into a free gift card that you can redeem on the app from a bunch of Brands like Starbucks Amazon Sephora Chipotle and so many more and the best part about it drop is free to use so whenever I'm thinking about making a purchase which frankly is all the time now cuz what else is there to do I pull up the drop out and head to the shop page to search for the brand. I'm looking to spend with just tap the brands off on drop and you'll be connected to the real Taylor site or mobile app. Once they're you complete the checkout process. Like you normally would and drop will automatically add Point into your account. Once the transaction clear simple as that. I personally like to use the app so I can get Uber Eats which I was gonna do anyway and through drop I can earn certain amount of points back for every dollar that I spend each time and every time that I make an order dog Get money back in my pocket so I can spend more money on not cooking. It's wonderful. It's absolutely wonderful drop also offers a ton of fun and low friction ways to earn that don't require you to spend a long time. And if there's one thing y'all know about me is I'm going to love some low-friction. You could earn points on the app by playing games in the drop arcade and for engaging in quick and easy surveys on the app. So if you're not already a drop member you're missing out on free money y'all for a limited time job is giving obvious. I'm never going to love fiction think that our limited time job is giving all of our listeners 10,000 points. That's $10. When you sign up for the chef via the app store or Google play with code keep it your bonus will be deposited in your account. Once you earn your first one thousand points on the app, that's code. Keep it to kick-start your earning on drop today. Keep it is brought to you by blinkist. Let me tell you about my secret weapon for learning new things and getting ahead, especially when we're dealing with that damn know-it-all Louis virtel on this show. I know I know gorilla can't keep up talk about keep it. I can't keep up. It's hard to find time to sit down and read and learn more when you don't have free time. You can't read or work off. Personal development but there's an incredible app that solves this problem and highly recommend it. It's called blinkist link is is really unique and it works on your phone your tablet or your web browser blinkist takes the best key takeaways the need-to-know information from thousands of non-fiction books and condenses them down and to just fifteen minutes that you can read or listen to successful people like Business Leaders are well-known for reading a lot of books blinkers has made for busy people like you who want to get the main points of a book quickly so you can start using that information right away and with its audio feature blink is makes it easy to finish a book during your commute on your lunch break or while you exercise even imagine getting two things done at once twelve million. People are using blinkers right now and it has a massive and growing library from self-help business Home Health to history books. It has the latest titles from bestsellers list as well as the classic non-fiction titles. You always meant to read but never had time to and we're talking about nine months. Fiction here. Okay blinkers not catching you up on Little Women or All the Pretty Horses. You'll never be Lord of the Flies. Okay, I like blinkist because look girl I don't have time and that's just the honesty of it all. I don't have time. So I gotta turn this on when I'm driving when I'm trying to make a smoothie maybe considering working out and then deciding not to do it should blink is really just saved me a lot of time I can get through a book and learn the key takeaways of the book in about 15 minutes and I can go reiterate them in my little Zoom party my little Zoom happy hour as if I read the whole book. Guess what I didn't I didn't books from people like Mister Richard Branson, you know or Jared diamond or she said by Jodi Kantor and Meghan, toohey because you get unlimited access to read or listen to a massive library of condensed non-fiction books. All the books you want and all for one low price right now for a limited time blink is has a special offer just for our audience go to a gym. Try it free for seven days and save 25% off your new subscription. That's blinkist spelled blinkist home last keep it to start your free 7-Day trial and you'll also save 25% off. But only when you sign up at blinkist.com keep it Our next guest became a household name playing villains on Heroes and America found story. And now he's one of the stars of Netflix as boys in the band reprising a role. He played on Broadway, please welcome back to keep it. Yeah Zachary Quinto song. Okay everybody. I didn't Louis were there when I came on the first time. It was just you know, yeah. It was just being you in something like building in sure and let Santa go around there. I remember coming there was funny anyway, and then subsequently you we we've hung out a number of times since then, so it's nice to see you back on your show off. One of the last times was at a restaurant that has now closed down is it? Yeah, we went to mansur which is right used to be right next to Akbar in, Georgia. Silver Lake and it close like three weeks ago where they trying to like do takeout Etc. And then they just they were actually because like I've I passed I drove by once and people were lined up a yeah, I feel like I remember seeing that not too long ago as well. But I guess it's not enough to keep a restaurant going and that was also such a destination. I feel like the going there was part of the experience so it might not it might not translate as well to doordash your urine. You're back in La now after living in New York forever. That's right. I'm back for now. You know, I'm I still have my choice in the city and and I feel like I don't know. I mean, I just feel there's this part of me right now. That's really missing New York because all my friends that I'm talking to are, you know, I think really enjoying the last gasp of Summer and warm weather and being able to be out in the street with all the restaurants and I've gotten some photos from my neighborhood that really make me miss it and make me recognize the way in which there's this club Or connectivity in this the way that New Yorkers show up for one another feels pretty palpable back there right now. So I've been missing a little bit but I had been planning to come out to LA. Anyway before the pandemic and sewn now that I saw window to make the move and I just decided to jump on it. And now that it's turning to fall and winter I have I have no desire to be back in New York in the midst of all this it's it's really I'm I'm going to keep it from it. So yeah, I'm back and Brace the isolated snark of l a. I I assure you it will edify you through these difficult times. Absolutely. I feel like it's a I don't know it's just as I was saying, I find it like an easier place to be and so I'm enjoying it as much as I can without, you know, there there has to be I think a foundation of recognizing how fortunate we are to live life than go on Hikes and take the dogs out and stuff. I mean, there's so many people in the country and around the world who don't have that luxury. So I I want to always be reminded of that for sure. I was I was ecstatic to see dead. Boys in the band because I had only seen the movie before which I had seen actually a couple of times because as I've seen you talk about in interviews, it is a fascinating artifact because it is first of all just needs a play about gay guys hanging out. So you're just like watching like like what it looks like for gay guys and like those striped pants people like, you know hooked up with like Roddy McDowell or whoever was sucked out at that time and like just watching them enjoy themselves and then it turns into this much more dramatic thing in the latter half. But what fascinated you just about boys in the band before you took the role of it, and I know you were off to take the part at first. Yeah. I had never seen I still haven't seen the original movie because I hadn't seen it when I got invited to do the place. So I didn't think that was a very good time to watch it and then shortly after the play-offs. I we talked about our movies, so I thought well, I don't want to watch it until I know whether we're making a movie of it and then obviously we did so now I guess after are you know, now I'm safe to to watch the original birth. I was really resistant to it. I I fell under the influence of a lot of the stigma that's been associated with this play over the years and I had never seen it. I had maybe read some scenes of it. I hadn't ever really read it from beginning to end. So I really occupy the space of this ignorant gay who was like that that old thing like I just allowed the association's of it being the kind of reductive stereotypical backward-looking museum piece to influence me and how wrong I was and how how how the experience of doing the play and now the movie has really changed my position and really allowed me to deepen an appreciation for Mart and for the seminal work. So what attracted me to it was ultimately the people right? I've been really want need work with Joe mantello for many years on stage and you know, I've been friends for a long time and the opportunity to be in one of his Productions and you know, I went to college with Matt Bomer and I've been friends with wage To Charlie and Brian Hutchison, and I've you know known Jim and Andrew for years. So there was there was a kind of camaraderie that existed from the beginning that that really pulled me into the experience. And even though I'm a little resistant to It ultimately I was like with all of these guys are doing this and excited about doing this then I must be the odd man out and and I don't want to miss an opportunity and and I'm certainly glad that I that I made the decision I made I would be kicking myself right now. If I was just watching it all unfold and not a part of it. Yeah. I mean, I'm of course glad that you did the movie as well and the Play-Off funny. This movie does does such a good job of transporting you to that time and that era and the the feeling probably a feeling I wouldn't have ever been afforded because I can't really imagine myself in that space. Like I was telling Luis prior to this I had to do so much deciphering in the dialogue to understand but what was going on and probably because I wasn't a gay man in the in the 1960s and I'm assuming normal, which is what I currently am. Yeah, which is dead. Right exactly Louis either of you two men were like time-traveling warlocks. I would not be confused right wait for it. What was it like for you getting into the character of Harold was here recognizable person. Do you do you know any Harold's I know people who make up an amalgam, you know like that are part of an amalgam. That is Harold. I don't know one specific Harold the way that Mark did. All right Harold is based on a real life person named Howard Jeffrey who is Mark probably best friend and Nemesis. And and so it was a it was a real joy to be able to talk to Marty about his relationship with Howard and to learn a lot about the character through those conversations. And then there's also just there's the kind of person that Harold is which is a deeply self-aware also self-loathing person who has who is actually transformed that self-loathing into a kind of power off. Because he's faced it all within himself. And and I really appreciate that about him. He's incredibly observant. He's unafraid to say what he thinks in the most Acid found way. So there's a kind of delight in playing a character like that. It's pretty different from who I am in my real life. So I feel like it was it was a great opportunity to explore that and have fun with it. But I think we've all met a Herald or two in our day. I haven't we boys maybe when midnight rolls around I go to like a who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf place where like maybe maybe the barbs come out. Maybe it's not as nice send-off. Okay, right. No, I think that's maybe that's tomorrow. Now that out. First of all, I love your Lucas Harold because you you look like a young Elliott Gould is very Elliott Gould then it's what time Really enjoyed about watching it. It's just remembering how Mark must have been writing from this place where one down there aren't representations of gay men on theater at all, you know, like there aren't films of it and then, you know the play, that you have good actors in it. And then you have the movie calm down and then he was involved too. I think with the Revival before he died earlier this year and so recognizing things that feel familiar, I guess it's a gay man, but also just seeing how things have changed and I really love not to ruin the story that's been around forever for people who do still need to Discover it but it starts out very fun and then jumps to being acidic but the ending between you and Jim Parsons sort of shows that like these been who could wage Go on this Merry-Go-Round with one another can can still be like alcohol you tomorrow right still be like Matt Bomer to jump Parts. This is like I'll still see you next week, you know, and I think that life is a beautiful sort of precursor to where we all sort of can be now, you know, because you can see whether it's Media or other reality T things where it's like I think that gay men should be like that with one another all the time and I think that the end of boys in the band really shows that where we can be and we're both of us are now, you know, and and I don't especially like a post therapy Universe. Yeah, you know and I think a lot of our anger too, you know, like doesn't come at least from that innate self-loathing that game and probably had in, you know, the mid sixties. Yeah, they didn't really have anywhere to put it outside of their own inner circles. So it had To be able to withstand those relationships had to be able to withstand that kind of expression of rage and resentment and because outside of the door of the apartment, they weren't safe in the same way that they were inside and you know, I think there's something Universal about these characters and and ultimately they're they're longing for kind of accepted and so longing for a kind of opportunity to see themselves in the world around them. And and I don't think that's an entirely different from today whether you're gay or straight or manage woman or how you identify or you know, I think everybody is looking for that kind of acceptance. And so beyond the fact that this story told through the lens of the gay male experience. I think it's something that that Taps into something a little bit more. I think it's a story that types. It is something a little bit more resonant than that and certainly something that I can relate to even even now one of my favorite things about this place. And movie is the references the characters make their in which I'm sure required a lot of wicking on your part specifically they something that trip me up. Was that recently I sent the Wikipedia of Berea Montes to somebody who was a child actress was called Cobra woman and it comes up in the play and I'm like, oh wait. I have no original thoughts like every game. I know it existed as like laid the groundwork. So how much research did it required to like just understand like what the fuck they were talking about at times. Yeah. Well we had you know, we had a great there there was such a spirit of our own interests among the cast and that was one of the joys of being you know, a group of nine openly gay actors playing these roles and so we kind of filled in blanks for one another and you said there were certainly things we had to research and and again it comes back to the great Good Fortune. We had to have more around right and and really, you know as involved in the process as we age Wanted him or needed him to be he was incredibly excited obviously and and and really gained to have these conversations with us about specific historical references and all about his own personal experience of writing the play and I mean, I'd find the story of how he how he came to write the play pretty incredible and and and pretty strong indication of where things were socially at the time there was a New York Times theater critic named Stanley Kaufman who had written an article impugning the gay playwrights of that time. So Tennessee Williams and William Inge and Ed wage will be for taking the gay experience and appropriating it to heterosexual relationships and you know these sort of grand characters of the American Theater like Blanche Dubois Bertha and who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf, you know, these were substitutes for the gay experience. And so Stanley Kaufman really impugned them and and was like, you know, and and my dog Read this article that was all about how you know gay playwrights should just tell their own stories and leave, you know, heterosexual marriages alone and Mark kind of thought to himself. Yeah, why why hasn't anyone told this story about a group of gay friends hanging out and that's what prompted him to write this play which I find, you know, really fiery in its own way and that that's the beginning of this whole journey is a pretty significant contribution not only to the theater but to I think the evolution of gay identity and integration in terms of Storytelling and representation. So how long were really fortunate to have him and obviously all really saddened by the fact that we don't have him anymore to share this experience of the movie coming out but he was on set he was there last summer we were filming and and I know that he was wrong thrilled about it. And and so that's at least some small consolation. That's such an interesting convo cuz I think we've talked about that before just this idea of gaming of the time having to you age. With like women and heterosexual relationships as avatars for queerness. It's so it's so weird watching like a Suddenly Last Summer. I watched the film for the first time home and seeing like just like if you don't know that this film is about that secret is this man is actually gay like you're watching it and you're just like what the fuck are these people talking about? Cuz they're talking around things that in the sixties would have been like, oh that's what they mean. But for us now, it's just like seems like people are being vague, but it's just interesting to think about that that storytelling cuz that conversation I think was even coming up recently with some people with with slight play, you know, it was cuz Jeremy o Harris wrote a play that was a lot inspired by home his experience, you know in interracial relationships, but the lead of it ended up being a woman but that's a lot to say about you know, like are gay men. Are we are can you even still have like a gay lead with religious? Looks like that and have it go to Broadway the way that plays would now, you know, I think you can tell like The Inheritance and you know boys in the band can work as a Revival cuz they already known networks, but it just made me think like what a regular just sort of romance play, you know work. Yeah interesting. If it's not a Revival or it's not a kind of Epic tale of a certain period in history like the AIDS epidemic or you know, like the inheritance did I wonder I'm sure I guess if you get big enough Stars it probably do you mean in the end but at this point the state of the American Theater I think is so deeply influx that it will be very interesting to see what happens when we come back from this whenever that may be and how may be tur has changed and evolved in ways because of this long Hiatus also because of the black lives matter movement and the you know the subsequent so yep. Uprising that's taken place and the acknowledgement of the the institution of theater being historically white supremacist and racist in its own unique way. I think it will be really interesting to see what kind of stories are are being told and I can't wait for it. I'm so bereft of of the theater. It's really the hardest part of this is like I get these These Memories of like walking dead in New York on my way to see a play or on the train or having finished seeing something that deeply moved me and just kind of walking around the city and its really that's those are the hardest things to shake, you know, cuz I thought you all but for me this. Has been a lot about staying with what's happening right now. I can't get too far outside of my own experience because if I do I start to open my own mind up to things that I wish were or used to be or you know may never be again and and and it can kind of invite him to take the essential Despair and those memories of birth. Theater certainly hairline triggers that that I'm you know, struggling against one of the last things I did really was like a weekend in New York. Oh it is a weekend before but had to go back and like I saw three plays and so they're all still there. What did you see? What I saw a Little Shop of Horrors. Oh, yeah, Jonathan already left it off and that I saw him in that months ago. I saw in it too. Cuz that's one of my favorite musicals. Yeah on that. I saw six. Yeah and I saw Tina the musical. Okay cool, which was amazed. I took a little shop. I didn't see six or Tina, but I really I was I was just getting ready to start a like Marathon the night before they shut Broadway down. I I had seen off West Side Story. I was so excited for the Revival of Caroline or change which is one of my favorite songs of all time. And so I had tickets for that. I had you know, I was really it was the spring seeds. Everything was about to open and I was like, so yeah, it's it's tough to it's tough to be faced with those empty theaters and all those Marquis that are kind of baking in the Sun and who knows when they'll be back. Yeah. I was going to ask you about the end of the movie and that's funny because the the play itself really could be called waiting for Harold in the way that I'm waiting and waiting for you to appear at the birthday guest. There is a scene prior to your parents where a potentially closeted man attacks another partygoer and I think about that moment a lot because even though it was a causative it causes separation that conflict is resolved almost immediately and everyone can continue with the festivities as nothing happened and it made me have to shift my understandings of what masculinity looked like in a culture and to Iris Point earlier how easy it is to kind of come back from fighting. We're we're both gay men and I wanted to ask you is that something that you think also translates to your life and you're expecting This is with other gay men. Is that is that something that crosses over like what a great question. I mean, what a great observation about the story as well because they do resolve it and proceed with, you know, it's a pretty significant turning point. It's a pretty significant attack so to speak and and everybody does regain composure relatively quickly. I mean my relationships in the world aren't reflective of the kinds of relationships in this piece per se I don't I don't have a lot of conflict or if I have conflict I try to resolve it. May I direct Manner and with some modicum of respect and kind of discourse rather than like attacking someone or you know, if I am attacked I try to get to what's underneath things done as quickly as I can so that you can resolve a situation not just symptomatically, but systemically, so for me, I mean, I don't really hold grudges wage. Don't really hold grudges against anybody per se but it's a good question in terms of like are we conditioned? I mean from hearing the question right? Are we conditioned to kind of bounce back from things change? Is there either either a resilience or a a version to conflict or an aversion to kind of deep conflict that keeps us from allowing ourselves to go there. I can only speak for myself. I think which is Thursday that if I have to go there I will yeah. The question is actually Zachary Quinto. Do you like to fight like to fight? It's pretty much how you doing want to start eating wants to start a fight club as well as long as we can but we will be talking about because we can do that after after our dogs ball tournament. I I don't like to fight. I like to I like to process of how about that and if the processing requires difficult conversations or conflict and I'm willing to I'm willing to go there. I Won't Back Down if I'm provoked off. Speaking of not backing down. I think if you was constantly acting around an extraordinary company of actors and most projects you do really and I think of Margin Call specifically because of the number of great actors in it, but I was wondering what the issue is learning experience for you as an actor that we have seen is wow. This is a good questions all I think I mean, I think Margin Call actually that you you bring it up and and I think it was a seminal moment for me, the first movie I produced So Not only was I did I have the great Good Fortune of being in the company of those incredible people someone who now are less incredible than they were them more really gets better. But not only did I have the opportunity to learn from watching them and working with them, but I also had the opportunity to put that thing together and make sure that you know, their flights will not personally but you know overseeing the idea that like everybody was where they needed to be and had what they needed and there was this kind of wage That was a real trial by fire for me because if if anything went wrong with any of those top-notch folks, you know, I felt responsible and in a way that I wouldn't if I was just showing up on set to do my part as an actor. So I would say I learned a great deal and I really cut my teeth as a producer in in that experience but by and large, I think the most often with I've done as an actor tends to be on stage. So my experience working with just on Tiffany and Tori Jones from doing The Glass Menagerie my experience, uh doing angels in America with Michael greif and Christian Borel and and and an incredible company of actors. I only mention Christian cuz you saw a Little Shop of Horrors, but you know, those those exchanges for me there's something about working in in the theater. It's a slower process right? But I I liken it to kind of wind eroding Stone, you know over time. Like showing up in the same place every night saying standing the same spot saying the same thing. There's a kind of depth that comes from that level of devotion and that level of surrender that I find the most transformative whereas with film and television. You're really working you're working with instincts. You're working to capture a moment that will live forever. But it only existed for a brief fleeting second off and there's it's own kind of alchemy in that but for me the kind of growth that I see that's lasting and measurable. It happens more in those long form processes over time when I'm in rehearsal and on stage for a long time, if you find if I find myself acting on stage next to Cherry Jones, you better believe I'm acting my ass off. I will I'm being around we have no choice. You know, she just wonder if she just wonder if there may God bless her. I think I'm he's on accident. She's like whatever I win again, you know, I think she is. I mean, she's very she's she's a real serious such a she's really dead. In it for the work and and I think whatever part of her enjoys the winning is the part of her that knows that it means she gets to keep doing what she loves but she would give them is away too. I mean, I think she did give her her first Emmy for 24 like to the crew. I think she was like here you guys go you can have my I mean, I don't know if she asked for it back, but I know they had it for a while. I thought I'd love that phone call from Jerry like okay, I needed back. Yeah. Lastly I would guess that we were talking about how Martin unfortunately is no longer with us, but we're they're interesting stories that like you heard from him one that stuck with young X. I know that like I was looking up the creation of boys in the band in general and he wrote it while he was Natalie Woods has assistant and she seems wild dog. Yeah, yeah, he and Natalie Wood were Incredibly Close for her whole life and Natalie's daughter Natasha Volkswagen. ER is marked goddaughter and was you know around and involved in the production of the play with him. And you know, I just think my favorite experiences of art where when Joe mantello would organize this kind of Broadway. Like let's meet at Sardi's on Thursday nights after the after everybody's play. And so the second floor of Sardis would be taken over by various companies from Broadway and just you know, people that were around that would hear about it or get invited and and mark would come to those and he would just sort of he would find somebody usually in our cast who would see him and they would sort of you know start talking and then you'd see like a couple of other people trickle over and then they'd eventually find a booth and sit down and and Mart would just kind of hold them. I had court, you know, he was not a he was not an ostentatious man, but he was he was incredibly full of life, you know, he was sober and and so I'm really enjoyed hearing him talk about you know, he got sober to write boys in the band. My understanding is he didn't stay sober at that point, but then he you know got sober later for the majority of his life and I love talking to him about that about you know, cuz I'm also sober we would talk about you know, what that Journey was and the challenges of living in the world that we live in and you know the community that we live in and what it's like to have a perspective that's not influenced by substance and yet you know, this play is all about that right display is all about the the kind of Shadow and the Darkness that can be Unleashed when when people kind of get lost in their cups and I feel like that was something that might had a really beautiful perspective on and I really always appreciate a table. About that and he'd spilled some T about, you know, those people and talk about Howard Jeffrey and kind of what a tricky person he was and you know how you know, they would get into income times and they would say horrible horrible things to one another and then they'd end it with like, you know where we're going for lunch tomorrow. And and I think he really captures that in the Journey of our play but that was one of my favorite things about especially during the movie was kind of embodying that I love when I get to lose myself or get super stoned or super drunk or you know, unstaged cuz it's the only place that happens anymore, So, um, I love doing that. I love doing that in the film and I felt like I was kind of honoring some some aspect of all those people that this craving for something that they were just looking for job in all the wrong places. And yeah, but mart mart was I mean look the fact that we've got to stand behind him as he accepted his Tony Award for best Revival is is the most indelible part of this whole month. As enriching as it was and as exciting as it was and as much as I love doing the work, you know that night and that moment for him and the fact that he got to fully experience life, you know was the coolest part of it all and and it is sad that he's not here to see people experience the movie but but I know that he was excited about it. And I know that was really thrilled that we got to do it. So, you know, we put it out into the world in his memory and with so much love and gratitude for him. He was a real Force, you know, he should have gotten an Emmy for producing heartbreak to be we should have it's true fantastic T show or literally holds up with also Natalie Woods first and third husband Robert Wagner Wagner. Yes. I know you don't have to tell me about heart-to-heart. Let's get you in a Revival of heart-to-heart. I think I could I could do it off. I talked to Andrew rannells about and see if he's you know for it. I would watch you an Andrew in a heart-to-heart Revival. All right. Well run it up the flagpole happens. Thank you for being here Zach. It's good to see you again. It's always always a pleasure. Thank you so much for having me. And we're back with our favorite segment of the episode. It is keep it we have to keep em, it's been it's been a week and I will reiterate how fortunate I am that Kanye is temporarily so far away from when we record I don't have to make him. I keep it. That is a plastic. Yeah. See, it's pranks. Yeah. He he peed on that Graeme on a on a Wednesday and for that I'm so grateful. I had to talk about it on I was on ET Canada the next day. Oh girl really how is that it was fine. I love the Canadians. My first brief keep it is too crooked media for scheduling Jon Favreau and Kendall Jenner's Instagram about voting cuz like she's reaching out to her millions of followers to like talk about voting Etc, but it is happening right now and I cannot troll John in the Instagram. Cuz it a Stern keep it in fact that it happened. It's the actual scheduling issues about okay. I feel like it was conveniently scheduled while we were recording to keep me out of the Instagram, Now, I'm not happy and also a mad at John because he just followed me back on Twitter last week. Oh, wow, the year Jon Favreau. It's been a year of meatballs. And by the way, welcome to the ride Jon Favreau. Wow. Yeah. Well, I mean, he's right to hit me with a car either, right? Oh that that to that too. Yeah. So anyway, you know with the last person, you know, Tommy off Mister number one keep it fed of the three was the last one to follow me is that so and it was true. It was truly like it was truly like five months in to keep it. Oh really? He followed me from the beginning like you're my favorite constantly. Is that weird? He loves me every day lates. We did it in the mood for Love Song Was it was that all up to your keep it? I don't want to I don't want to jump the gun know that was that was that was just that was just a pre keep it a very good. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah the key when they keep it segments. Like we're just keeping everything, you know wage not Paul Rod this week because the the whites got mad. Oh, yeah, they did get mad as a total mess and I went back and listened to it because sometimes you kind of forget the scathing way. You're speaking off your doing your keep it and then you go back and listen and you're like I sound way harsher than I meant to or I didn't preface it with a I love Paul Rod, but so, you know, there is definitely a formula to keep it if you want to ward off the wild people in your life in your DMs and I did not do that with Paul Rudd and I'd like to apologize. It's you know, it's well, I'm glad you said that but but also but also, you know, it's I just always find it funny like home and you drag everything under the side and then like sometimes you'll hit the one person where they're like, wow you you can make fun of this but don't make fun of Paul Rod because I watch clueless every night before bed wage. You know, it's just the one thing that that Taps into people's brains were the comedy has to stop the the comedy train doesn't come here anymore, right? Oh, very good. That's a deep Tennessee Williams reference, right? Yeah. I was going to say also one time I did last cultural resources. They have a thing called. I don't think so, honey where people just go up and do one minute rants, like 50 comedians go up in a row and you can do so, they're keeping cars. Don't worry about it. Yeah, but they do this thing where you can pick a topic from a bowl and randomly come up with a monologue, but whatever they give you and that's like the challenge of it to like fake finger at something. I just want to say I did that once and had to talk about Chelsea Clinton. You would think I was actually very upset at Chelsea Clinton. It's obvious like what imagine like spending like a moment's writing a poem read about Chelsea Clinton. But anyway, so I'm on your side there. I had to direct Salma Hayek that same I don't think so honey, cuz we were on that same live show. All right, and I just went I went data s but I remember Jose Saying that she would never she would never be the movie Selma by Ava Duvernay name, Let's call the whole thing off. Yes, ma'am. I'll start with I'll start my keep it because it's going to be brief because it's not upsetting anything. I think everybody sort of agrees about this one my keep it is to the movie Antebellum, which for some reason I watched over the weekend off and I say for some reason because I'm not horror oriented in any way really so it's weird that I would watch it. So soon after it came out, but first of all, I just want to say there's an awesome essay about specifically black people are sick of these kinds of movies Angelica J Bastian wrote about it over at vulture. If you're not reading her about movies, I mean you can cancel and so keep it right now and like just read her thoughts. Yeah, but it's this movie that stars Janelle Monae and it begins with 40 minutes of what I will call just straight slave related torture. It's just it's it's unending you're wondering what the point is dead. And then when you find out what the point is because there's a contemporary Mobius strip twist halfway through this movie. You are subject to the most boring sequence of events and Janelle Monae being like a motivational speaker activist person who speaks only in the most boring trite phrases about racial Justice. It makes no sense. And you're one at the end eventually. She's she's reverted to what seems like Antebellum times and she has to escape and there's some suspense to that but it takes a long fucking time to get to that and thought the characterizations in this movie. I root for Jena Malone as a species. I want her to do. Well she goes very broad here and while it's fun, it's one of those like, you're so broad you're in your own Movie package and I am curious what that movie was because this one is way inappropriate for it. Anyway, nobody needs to see this movie and I have to say a full keep it and also Janelle Monae what happened? What happened? And you know, I am I am happy that the right person sought Antebellum because I was not I was not about to it went over my radar. I thought I saw Angelica's review for one and then to I was just awful I this isn't for me ya know yet again. I've imagined me watching Antebellum be like well, that was great. Imagine. My friends about life was for no one, right? Okay. So my keypad this week goes to kind of the same thing larger topic about computers algorithms and racist coding that is coming to the light in the past few weeks. I've had this recurring problem on Twitter where when I upload a photo and the app is left to decide which part of the photo is put in the Tweet preview it rarely highlights May face it sometimes it'll highlight the wrong part of my face or the person on my shirt, but honestly, that's what I get for wearing Bjork. I'm a shirt I would have chosen her to now now like there's this recent song Thread that's confirmed all my suspicions that something Beyond me is going on a guy named Colin Midland posted a tweet thread showing how one of his fellow faculty members a black man. Am having trouble using the virtual background feature on Zoom because it would often cut his face out of the frame or it wouldn't match up with a virtual background. He then went to tweet screenshots of the photos. And even when the faculty members face was present Twitter opted to feature Colin Midlands photos. Who is you guessed it a white man. And before you go Lego. Well, what about the lighting or what about know it was a clearly it was a clear favor for the white man's face. It reminds me that code and the way code is written is just a manifestation of the coders mind and if that coder has racial biases, then the code will have or biases and judging that all the code is written down there in Silicon Valley. Okay, there's a high chance is a very very high chance that not so Savory programming is being written in English. New forms of intelligence and these algorithms don't just struggle with identifying Black Faces as readily as white ones. But the more we rely on facial recognition as a type of technology in the way. The Advent of it goes beyond social media. We see them same programs being used and being partial toward incriminating Black Faces in the justice system and less than a month ago. We saw one of odd First cases of someone being convicted and taken to jail using facial-recognition and then it came out to be that he was not the perpetrator of the crime and it was of course a black man in Detroit. So this is just something to be wary of as facial recognition is is and again, I'd like to apologize for going on Patriot Act and my keep it but it's a lot of things are going on and off I was calling me but that's my keep my keep it is two races software and racist programming and honestly Twitter did just acknowledge that there's an issue and then they're going to log The to it immediately oh interest. So so that means that will not look at it. They were lying and you shut up ya still waiting on them to look into those Nazis off on the bifocals that reminds me of sort of what I was talking about last week when like my keep it was to the social dilemma, right? You know would had the white people, you know, like it would work like Twitter or Facebook Pintrest Etc talking about like they had no idea that like social media could be used for nefarious purposes. Right and it's like, well, you have to think about the fact that you as white men largely right man who were also in this documentary, you know, like creating this code and creating these companies like you have biases that other people can sort of take advantage of you know, like that's why you should have like not just white men on your team, you know, there's other people will see these happening. Also how far behind in mind that that was the first time I've ever heard Sila cracker Valley. Am I just Way by I think I'm coining to be dead. To be totally honest unless I'm wrong. I'm glad to be here for it. I've just I'm outside of myself for maybe that being my first so I crack a valley is it took a while? I was like can I say cracker on the podcast but it also sounds like the silly cracker which also works out too. I don't know. I mean, you might get Dean's from people who really love Ritz crackers this way. Everybody knows that we then have we don't have to go there but on a Triscuit bitch, I don't know who was a Triscuit busy on either an old broom. Yeah off my keep it this week is to Ellen DeGeneres DeGeneres Queen herself who did an apology on her show this last week for everything that we've talked about on the show recently, you know, the allegations of misconduct on her show and you know the project Sisters that had to be fired for you know, preying on people who worked on the show, you know, sexually harassing people and also just the General Air of publicity that seems to exist at The Ellen Show. I don't know if y'all saw this apology, but it was wack. I saw her say something so her say something off. I knew that the apology was going to be like this because if you recall every time Ellen has had to apologize for something before it is always found it. So disingenuous bike rack, but when she was first dragged about hanging out with George Bush the war criminal she started her policy by being like listen, I'm friends with a lot of people across aisle and like who I guess it was an uproar about like me being at a game this weekend, you know, like every time like something happens with Ellen and she did it with this apology to where she's like, how is everything Summer, you know mine was pretty great, huh, super terrific like she always starts out the apology by like acknowledging what happened in a way that it seems like can believe this happened. You know? Yeah, and also don't start it with a joke. I don't know. It's like the situation is serious enough that it demanded greater specificity. Like as I was sitting there watching it. My problem was I mean, I've not discussed it on this podcast a number of times or I've discussed with my friends and number of times I was struggling to remember what had occurred, you know, like yeah, like as she was sitting there like what are you apologetic before like there are layers of things going on here. And and by the way again, she did point this out. There's a world of difference between Ellen is not as nice as she seems on the show which by the way who cares? Yeah, and and secondly em, there's a culture of horror, I guess or of contemptible Behavior occurring on the show and I just wish she had been specific about that and how those kinds of things occur because that page Affected people it has nothing to do with just Oh Ellen, you looked at me wrong one time, you know? Yeah, you don't get to respond to accusations of sexism and racism and workplace hostility with I'm sorry. Ami still learning like you don't well also opening up her apology with like, you know, if anybody's thinking of changing their title or giving yourself a nickname don't go with the kind lady. It's like you've literally just undercut everything that you're about to say by how you open your apology and it's just so it's so rude and dismissive to be honest. You know, it reminds me of the George Bush thing reminds me of how she was so rude and dismissive of people who had a stood criticisms of Kevin Hart, you know for his homophobia and thought she was conflating them with people just sort of like being mean to him online. Right? And I think unfortunately this is a thing that will always be a problem with wage Tackle egg situation is when it comes to Alan right because she has Brandon herself as this sort of like nice person, you know, like be kind to everyone else, you know, and in her mind, you know, like if she always could inflate criticisms of herself or people in her orbit with people, you know are just sort of like being mean right and there's a difference. Yes between like home. You can be a bitch Ellen to be honest, you know, like you could be I don't care if you're a bitch behind the scenes, you know, like when people were talking about how like, oh, the security guard ones was like like she wasn't making eye contact with me, you know, or she was like sort of dismissive and rude. I'm like she can do that. Yeah, you know as long as she's treating people like with respect at work. She just has to be your friend, you know, and she really doesn't have to be friends with people like who like come up to her on the street, you know, whatever someone's like, oh the celebrity was mean to me like I went up and asked them for like a photo and it's like they can be mean to you get out of them. Yeah, you know but there is a marked difference here and and she doesn't really get that and I also found it. So exploitive for her to talk about how long she first started saying like be kind to people because it came in the wake of Tyler Clemente's suicide, you know, there's a gay teen who took his life because of both king and you fostering a workplace that is creating drama for people of color and for other queer people and allowing Predators home to just sort of like run rampant at your workplace has nothing to do with this fucking kid who took his life. Okay, like and you trying to be like I am a nice person and I'm trying to Foss kindness because I'm really torn up about this kid who took his own life. It's like it's like that has nothing to do with what was going on in your workplace and the fact that you would try to explain Void that and sort of like give yourself like sympathy is it I found it offensive. Yeah. It's I mean Ellen had didn't have the advantage because I don't think any of us wanted to hear an apology from her. We wanted her back out to stop being on the air. So just from that at the beginning she was doomed and if that's what made it one of the least satisfactory apologies that I think I've heard in a long long time. Unfortunately, I've heard way too many off hand accounts of my friends who worked at The Ellen Show talk about their own personal issues at the show for her to ever have been able to redeem herself. So, I'm sorry Ellen, there's just no walking this back. Yeah, you know and that's unfortunate too that we just sort of like ascribe, you know, this like cult of personality. I guess two people, you know, like especially someone like, you know, like this this this quote unquote nice name is that she's been allowed to exploit, you know, and like you don't have to be nice. You don't have to be kind just don't let racism and like sexual harassment happened at your workplace girl 62 years. Old talking about I'm a work in progress, right? I mean, I've never seen a play like a play get good in the third act. Like if you don't often recommend witness for the prosecution Christie's Ellen Ellen Ellen. Well, that's our show off. Thank you to David Chang and Zachary Quinto for joining us this week. We will see you next week. Keep it as a production of crooked media Caroline rested is our producer. Our editor is Bill Lance and Kyle segment is our sound engineer. Our national team is not in a melatonin and my location. Thank you to Brian settle for production support every week.

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David Chang

Mad Influence

42:47 min | 2 years ago

David Chang

"Jackie's? Matt influences presented by Mohit doll lice memorable. Moments. Must be moesha. Don. Welcome to mad influence. I'm your host Jim Nelson editor in chief of G Q Matt influence is a podcast about artistic breakthroughs, and what I like to call it a long arc of creativity. There are any number of ways you could describe my next guest. David Chang, a pioneering chef a big thinker about food and the way it intersects with culture, a TV personality. A retired magazine editor I like to think of him as someone who refuses to let others to find him who is constantly redefining himself fighting for the ground around him. Which is why we wanted him here on mad influence a podcast about interesting ever changing careers in the long Arctic creativity. Like a lot of people I've been interviewing for this podcast. He is restless and ambitious in the best way always ripping up the script and starting over and he's ambitious not primarily because he wants to get rich though. I know he wouldn't mind, but because it's in his nature. I don't think I've ever met anyone so relentlessly self motivated. Right now, his plate is entirely full. He's got a fascinating and really thoughtful show on Netflix called ugly. Delicious, he hosts the Dave Chang show podcast or the ringer. Got restaurants in New York, including Momofuku, which has two Michelin stars restaurants on Australia. Toronto my hometown, Washington DC, he opened major Domo. He's I LA restaurant early. This year reviews have been almost uniformly ecstatic. He's here in New York. Opening new restaurants. He's got his head in his palm of answer. Now. Give out. Everything's gotta Dave Chang. Welcome the Matt influence. Yeah. Just made it down here from opening day of our new restaurant Bong bar. We'll see this is really interesting because I'm thinking back I've been thinking about when you first started wasn't two thousand and four year for and how you didn't want to take any investment money. You said you would not have succeeded if you had an investment money that you needed to fail on your own terms. He didn't want shithead bankers. But what happens is it that you have to fail and then at a certain point you have to you need that banker money what? Well, we started friends with shit head. Yeah. Well, we started the business and on like, basically one hundred thirty thousand dollars, and we continue to take loan after loan after loan for almost ten years. I never took investors. And when I say, I didn't think about long term decisions like sounds like hyperbole that I would make a decision thing in that. I wouldn't be alive past a certain age. But like that's legitimately. How I was living my life and running our business with blinders on and just. Yeah. Just like, okay. Whatever. Who cares? We won't be. We won't. That's a problem. That'll happen down the road across a bridge when we get there, we probably won't ever get there. So who really cares? But and you know, I think about that. I I have paused because I'm like, well that is crazy. But that's exactly how we operate our business, which is ultimately, why think it we were allowed to shape a different voice as to how business in the restaurants where operating and one of the things we were all in. There was no room for failure. Like. Very few people. I think understand what that's like to be in the pressure of it to not fail you fail. You lose everything. Like, that's a terrible place. Not just for yourself with other people around you as well. So that sort of screws with my sense of how of your story because I felt like you did fail at the beginning. Oh, yeah. We did fail. And that's the thing is once you realize like I was just like everyone else. And then when you fail you're you realize what's at stake, and when you continue to fail you're like, oh, wait, you know, it's almost like a term paper exam. Like, wait. I can't push this back. This is this is do or die almost. And that's how we looked at it. And then all of a sudden something clicks. And you're like, oh, wait we have to do anything in our power to not fail. So what we need to do is try all the things that might work out and failure wound up becoming the only thing that I think we were actually good at. Right because it allowed us to have a very organic. And when I mean, organic, I think people use the word inappropriately when describing organization at least for us. It was not having any idea what to do. See it's funny because the way I remember it is noodle. Bark comes out. I like two thousand and four y'all and kind of doesn't get it doesn't figure out what it is. Right. And then because no one knew what a noodle bar was crazy, but didn't exist. Yeah. You, but it did they didn't it existed in maybe some version of it didn't Chinatown, right. No. No, no, really you had one Romania. And that was like one Rami. Nah. And there are a few places midtown that serve like sushi that would have also Ron, but the Ramadan. That's still there. Right. Can that survey Chinese version? So there was no one doing like a their interpretation arraignment. There was actually not a ramen shop that was serving off we like contemporary style. Tokyo is that we were serving either. And I had spent time like the closest noodle bar that I could work at was in Bally's casino. Chris. And I worked there for Jake's. Yeah. I also worked at riot Ken for like two months and just starting around interning just where I could work at a quote unquote noodle bar. That's where I worked. So you originally deal was that I'm gonna make this. I'm gonna make the idea of a noodle bar. I don't even know what that was. Right. I was like does it need dumplings do eat fried rice can I serve kimchi with my noodles. Like these are questions that I didn't have anywhere to turn to. So. And to be honest, if I had to think about it. We didn't really have good food either. Because we were like wait we have to operate a restaurant. We don't even know how to like, I didn't know what sales tax was. Yeah. Right. I had no idea. I was like wait I have to deduct this. And then save it and pay later like learning how to clear the registers and do like soup to nuts. You spend all your time. Worrying about the fun of the house and management and running. Right. Yeah. And then you gotta figure wait. We also have to cook the food and figure out that part. And so it was six months of just sort of flailing around and following what I thought that people might want to eat, and that was like some Americanized version of what noodle bar was and then through that failure. And then realizing that we had a couple of months left to operate. That was when I realized oh who cares? That's really when I realized it's like getting a terminal illness. And that's unfortunately, when you see some people starting to live, and you're like, wait a second. That's that's great. But also incredibly bittersweet that you haven't been doing this entire line. They start to live only when they're about to die. And that sounds like fuck it. Let's just go, and that's sort of what happened, and we were free to do all the things that we were not supposed to do would you do differently right away. We got rid of what we thought that a noodle bar was. And we started cooking food that we thought was going to be important. We played music more annoyingly in loud than normal like. Like, I remember very clearly I think enter the three six champions one of my favorite albums all time. And I was like can never be played in a restaurant ever. You can never play in a restaurant. I was like fuck it. Perfect examples like, you know, what we're just gonna play it out loud. And see what happens. Solely. But surely, we're just started like putting crawfish on the menu. And Chris and things that you would never see. But we are just a position everything anything and everything like ox tells and try and was the east village crowds digging it, or did, you know, when did you know that it was do you? Remember when you're like, okay. This is working. I don't know. We just started getting a line. And then we'll line started a great psychic things too. Yeah. Yeah. Tells people that something's going on there and cook started come in. It was just we were like freak shows to people originally, and we had an open kitchen, and I was not. I should I say like I wasn't. I didn't care that there were people. There didn't care. No. Because like I wanted to close kitchen I didn't to open kitchen if I had the money to have a close kitchen, I would have had a close kitchen. So I appreciated without having any idea that my actions, we're going to be perceived by the people so I would have meltdowns several times a day. And it was I remember it was kind of a little bit like theater, go to dinner theatre, Dave Chang show. And like no now wildly inappropriate. How I yelled and screamed and was just not ready, and I a very famous chef came to me one day, and he saw me just having a meltdown and. Probably yelling at a cook or something or or berating cook. And he pulled me aside. And he said the reason you're yelling is because you have insecure you're insecure and you're not confident your own abilities. And I'll never forget that moment. Because I was like fuck you in my mind. I was like fuck you like, you don't know. This is war every day. It's war. We have to like get this ready. Everything's on the line. What do you know, you you can come here in eating not work at your own restaurant? What do you know? And I never forgot that moment. And the reality is when I see one of my cook, my younger, chefs younger in terms of like years put in this business and anytime someone's in a management position. And they're having a hard time getting someone to do something. I mean this happens all the time, and they're so frustrated that they wind up losing their temper. I'm like, I say the same thing. The reason you're yelling, you're not good enough. You're not good enough. And you have a lot of insecurity, and the factors that chef was one hundred percent, right. And it took me several years to unpack with them because you were doing those. You're like throwing your fist through all your staff. Call them Korean termites. Yeah. No. And you know, it's funny. It's like I. I didn't know it's taken me a long time to understand why would ever get that upset or anything? Because in the thing is right around that time is I started seeing a psychiatrist right around two thousand four two thousand three two thousand four was when I started seeing the psychiatrist I still see now. And I all of a sudden had a anger issue that I never had when I worked for other people because I was always being the subservient cook. And all of a sudden when I would like freak out. I was not prepared. I did not have the ability to to I didn't have the tools all right or the maturity to learn how to to handle myself or manager frustrations by frustration. I know I DEA the one of the few things that I found to be truthful. Why actually love to cook? Cook was that it didn't fail me. Right. Like, I felt like everything in my life sort of failed me in cooking was the one thing that if I do it, right? Like, it's right. It's. Pure pure. Yeah. It's like the way I feel about music could never lets me down. Never lets me down in like if I label something, right? If I condense everything, right? If I cook something, right? If I wash my hands properly and dry properly, I season it that is like ultimately care and that had never failed me. And that's why I actually love cooking was wait all these things that don't matter. But if I care about it, I might suck at it. But repetition, I'll get better at it. And when I would see someone for the first time being in a position management. I never even been a sous chef before all of a sudden not care about the things that I care about that were quite frankly, like, I wouldn't say save my life. But gave it purpose that like just couldn't fuck it understand why someone to do that. And it would be like then trying to take from me somehow, some something how did you eventually change your move because your mood has changed, and I can imagine in the restaurant people who work under you feel that keenly. Yeah. I mean, I feel like I've just tried to grow up, and unfortunately, it's been in the public eye for for a lot of it. And and those that I work with and you know, there are people that have been with me, thankfully for for many years. So almost fourteen fifteen years, and and when they make decisions like how we used to make decisions I have to say like that doesn't work anymore. You can't. I think for whatever reason I think trying to be a better person more thoughtful and adjusted has has become like my hobby. I mean, 'cause I think that translates to running a better business somehow, I also think you're becoming I'm noticed in the arc of ugly delicious. And also in your podcast that you are trying very hard to find a positive line of thinking. Yeah. Because you know, you I I would be out with you. Sometimes I'd hear you. You would go down the dark tunnel of despair and criticism, and it's very funny to watch you and Renee RDS because Rene is disposition Lee optimistic. Yes. Right. And you and you'll sit there and you'll you'll be dissecting something and you're trying to lament it. And he's trying to say this is what be useful. Yeah. Is that true? Yeah. I mean like I'm trying right? And one of the things like it's funny. I never thought I'd talk about like my mental illness after all these years, but after boarding pass. I was like fuck like, I have I feel like there's some responsibility. And ultimately, I feel like had I been more forthright and sharing with him. Maybe something could have changed. I am someone that is probably the most pessimistic person you've ever met. If anyone met me, they're like, yeah. I may not be the guy listening, Morrissey, the cure and just chew gazing. But as a whole, I tend to think incredibly negative negative thoughts about everything that's just who. I am. And a lot of that stems from how I feel about everything. Right. So it's listen what else can I do other than try to get help for it. Right. It's not it's not a lifestyle that I would like to live. But it's the prison that the world is it's a negative cast to your mind is it about what you think of human nature. Yeah. Yeah. And everything it's not always the most like the best outlook of things. But also my own thing. Like how I how I fit into the world. Right. It's very much everyone's against me which goes back into like, if someone doesn't do something that I cherish. It's not selfish. It's like some. That gives me meaning and someone's trying to trash it. I get incredibly defensive about that. So like today, for instance, I yelled at one of my sous chefs, and I immediately polish is five minutes afterward. I was gonna say it's only eleven AM. And like, and I didn't yell like I used to. But I definitely like lost my voice. I raise my voice in a way. That was like everyone's like oh. And I could I could sense. Like fuck I got so mad at myself. I fuck. Because they didn't do something that I've been asking. And ultimately, I could have done a better job. I realized that's on me whenever someone fucks up. Ultimately, that's on me because I could have prepared them better. I could put them in a position where making a better decision was easier. Right. And ultimately that's on me. So I'm media was like fuck, I'm such a fucking hypocrite. I'm an asshole. I was like go to the sous-chef. I was like, hey, let's go to the other room. And I brought another chef to and I explain to them what happened. And I tell I told him I was like listen, and this is going to sound crazy. But when you did this the reason I behave that way was this. And I said like when you didn't do that. And you didn't listen to me. I took that as you try and hurt me. Yeah. Right. I'm telling you, this may not make any sense. I know that's not true. So I was reacting to something that wasn't real. So I'm apologizing in. I was like, and I think he's like what the fuck and the what the fuck face immediately turned in dude. This is like years of fucking ropy to get here to this moment. Right. And like, I was a very motion moment for us. And I was like, you know, we hugged it out. And it was like, you gotta understand man. Like, I don't wanna I don't wanna behave this way. But like if I do like, you know, this is it's not. I'm not trying to find rationale to to behave that way. But I'm simply saying like, I now know why behaves. Oh, certain way, and I'm trying to like knock go down that road. Going back and thinking about how you changed your restaurants. Every step of the way, you're remarkably adaptive person, and you might see it as a as a kind of fucked up. But I always see it the other way, which is maybe it's just again, the cast that you to something. But like a well Chang recognized pretty quickly that noodle bar wasn't working. And then Sombor also same thing. Right. And you you weren't you doing like Mexican we're doing burrito? Which actually probably now would work, right? You're just. Yeah. I feel very strong about any idea that was so insane. But I think I look back on her now is maybe I was trying to fail. But it was basically Crean and Asian food served in vehicle of Mexican burritos and tacos seat sounds delicious to me. Made sense to me no-one no-one went for it. Just dead. Was this is how it looks after years ten plus years later as like for many years. I blamed everyone else. And then I realized I could have made that better I could marketed that better I could present it this better. So it's been a lot of analysis of to y y fucked it up, and ultimately again, most the responsibility was on me. So I didn't know how to do it then either. So weirdly through a lot of different paths. We get to bang bar in bond bars, basically Sombor two point, oh, at least original version of it done in a completely different way. Again, because another thing that I am for sure is the moment with the most stubborn Astles you've ever met, particularly when someone tells me you can't do something or it doesn't fail account in twelve years. See I can't live with myself. Right. Like a half to scratch that each when you think about your influence. Does it bother you that when you see people copying you? I I went to John mine, I went to a restaurant in in Maui. Oh on Hawaii. It was like a fucking Chang. Copycat? It was like food created by not David Chang. They should've had it like trademarked, and it was like the plastic bottle. You know, the little Qassam sauce. It was the steam bonds, even the decor that just everything about of the box. It looked like your restaurant, and I was like Changsha beginning money for this. This does that not pissed you off for I think for a while it did. And then when I have to think about it. I have to realize I haven't really invented anything. I was just sort of change ratios repackage it a little bit differently. And how the juxtaposition of certain things come together. I think that also does it differently. Like, we say it in a different way that was ever presented before like that. I have to be humble about me. Like, you know, what fine. And then maybe I have to hope that that restaurant might evolve into something else. And maybe that's the first restaurant or like, I'm. Learning not to cash judgments Zo like immediately because I'm the new positive again. Like what I'm trying to do. Right. I realize like if I behave the way I'd behaved before it's a dark path. Right. Yeah. So I have to think about that and be like empathize. What if this person was like immigrant, and they saw some that channel that we're on. And they're like, oh, we can open up this restaurant. It's like what I'm the. I'm going to be the worst person world. If I say fuck, you you can't do that. If I hope if I believe as a person that my the world, I wanna live in is diverse full of new ideas, and like inclusive all of these things, then I have to represent those feelings too. Even though sometimes I may not want to an intruder actually was an awesome meal, and it was great. And I actually I thought well, it's not so bad. If they're a bunch of Momofuku offs all over the world. At least it'll be delicious. We had the money to do. So. But like the other thing about that in it certainly can be flattering. And I try. Not to believe anything that's positive because I feel like, you know, my head is physically big enough. I don't need it to be bigger. Is like the only thing I get sad about when I see that as I fucking hate imitation. I. I don't know who said it. But it's like it's suicide, right? Like, you only have so much time on this planet. Why would you endeavor to do something that's not your own? Ultimately, it's interesting that you say that you don't think you created anything original or or new because I was rereading the profile that Alan Richmond, dating G Q in two thousand seven, and I was struck by how far we've come culinary culinary as a country since then he was expressing expressing the pleasure and surprise of discovering something new, and he sort of captured the food world sentiment when Sombor came onto the scene. This quote struck me eating mumble Cousteau bar is like falling in love with the woman who's language you don't speak captivating. But mystifying at Sombor, you won't understand the food. But you will immediately regret all the years you live without it. And I was thinking when I read that I totally understand that food. Not only do I recognize it. But I recognize it now as American is that what you wanted all along, isn't it like just? I think it's sort of like this worldview thing, and you know, it's funny like John Heilemann political commentator, sorta summarize my life in a weird like two sentences when we're talking about Brad Kavanagh because I graduated from the same school, unfortunately as as him, and he's like your whole life is the. Antithesis of what like that kind of world is supposed to be and and I want I I don't know. I mean, a lot of it has to be how I was raised and how I viewed things, but a lot of it was I feel like I was forced that when there's one way that's the only way and I hate that. That is something that I have to fight against like, I think that just makes me so fucking angry when someone says that that whether it's a cultural bias nece or totalitarian state or something like we're talking about food here to ultimately, I think he can represent the worst part of like ourselves. It's like there's only one way you can get to this goal. And that's this way. Right. And I always rejected not just do that and food like in anything, whether it's religion or or particularly religion, I guess for me. But there's gotta be more than one way to get to the end. Food in the end goal and food is simply this when you eat a meal, are you happy that you're there was a delicious. And is this something you want to eat again? Did it bring you joy, right? How the fuck you got there who fucking cares who cares seriously as long as it's done in a moral universe. Where you're not fucking hurting anyone in your good custodian who gives a shit if this French guy says this is the only way in like some dude in Indonesia says this is the best way. If how you've leave this meal is joyous. Who's fucking right or wrong is someone spent five hundred dollars in someone's been five dollars. What's the fucking difference? Hey, I want to take a quick break here to thank me. Sean, don't as you know, because you've been listening Matt influence features personalities and performers who shape our culture focusing on moments that have mattered. Most of them we explore artistic breakthroughs in hard one discoveries helped forge alleged season defined careers the stuff in other words that's worth celebrating. So it's fitting that this season. Matt infant is presented by moesha who has stood for celebrations for over two hundred seventy five years, as we examined the ingredients of some pretty unforgettable creative fears for grateful in support of the most love champagne and for their encouragement to celebrate. Moods. I want to make sure that I asked you about something that we've talked about before that I think it's really interesting and actually hits to this larger theme of how you build a longer life of creativity. You say that chefs don't recognize that they do the best of their work in a limited amount of time that most of them are going to do their best work between what did you say like between twenty and thirty five. Yeah. Twenty seven and thirty five. So the problem is that they don't understand that. They don't face it. What what is the problem? And can you explain the theory what you should and what you should take from it, Jim. And I've had this conversation over the years in variety formats, and this is another sometimes I disagree to I'm wrong all the time on a lot of things. So. And I've asked this to a lot of people in some kind of craft or creative endeavor. I'm sort of infatuated and obsessed with idea when you're at your best. And people can disagree. But I think that in the variety of fields there are certain moments. And certainly there's going to be exceptions to the rule, but there come some framework some window in your life, where if you are dedicated to it you are going to be at your best. And that's just to me a truth. Right. That you can get your if you're dedicated to it that is where you pursuing something that you are single-minded track focused on it. And you want to do some excellent work at some point on that journey that trajectory. You know, there's going to be a moment where you are peaky. You. You're just at the best. Possible powers. You see that on flex you. See that a mathematics. He didn't visit music. You see that in film? And I think when I asked this question to a lot of my comedian, you can name it a lot of people don't like thinking about it because it's creative mortality. Yeah. And I fucking love it because it's like I never want to be on like realize like, oh like I should have like retired. That's to me the worst. Worst thing is to put out shit. When you think you're still good enough? I know I'm I'm always been obsessed with the idea of hacks. Like, I want to do a book called. Hacksaw user's manual because there's so many they need help recognizing when you're hack, right? Yeah. And that's the worst terror to me is like waking up one day and realizing your hack, and listen, I'm not coming up with this theory other than for my own sort of like use. But I if I chart out a lot of the chefs that were meaningful to me both men or women as to what they're sort of most famous dishes war almost everyone like that. They they might be known for three to five dishes happened from the ages of twenty six to thirty five almost everyone. And I dare anyone to do the same thing and plotted out you're gonna see a correlation of data that all suggests that it's around that time and what happens at that moment in someone's life. Right. I think that's very telling you mean, it's before they get settled in before they wisdom. Okay. I is wisdom stopped in innovation at some point. You. Wow. Yeah. That is depressing though because wisdom should be somebody. That's well. Wisdom should be something that's gained it is gained. But I also logic. Wisdom is something. That is always, you know, the common denominator as to what happens in life, right and through experience. Wisdom is experienced. You realize that certain things are gonna work and certain things aren't and for me when I see it. It's like, and I've talked to other chefs when they are in their sort of later twenties, and they for the most part don't know enough, but they believe in themselves. So so fiercely that they don't think that any ideas a bad idea. Right. And and because of that naievety, they believe that they're going to try something so reckless and so possibly stupid that anyone with more wisdom would never have attempted it, and the thing is what I really believe strongly about is when you are able to try to do something like. That when the odds are stacked against, you know, getting this is obviously me projecting my own life in so many ways was. Everyone's going to tell you what's going to work, not work. But until you actually know, and I believe like so fiercely in this is that when you fail. You don't really know if it's a failure. You're not self aware. It's almost like scarring new dimension in reality right in your weight. Everyone wants to edit in their head, right? And I say this a lot to younger to some of my sous chef's when they make a dish. I just happened the other day as prep for noodle bar. Someone was making a cabbage dish. And I just was like make it a delicious sauteed cabbage dish in the version that I was given and taste and he's been slaving away. At this dish was ripping spicy. It was like muddled it at rice cakes. It was like seventeen different things. And I was like what version is this? Honestly, he's like probably like forty right? And like if you mapped all of these versions out was it worth it is that you're asking, no. As like, how many of those did you just edit out in your head? And how many do you actually physically do because you you're saying forty, but I doubt you actually this is version forty one point. Oh, right. I bet you this is version three. Right. Right. And he's like, yeah. And I'm like dude you have to understand in your head. When you're getting something if you have the current verte by the time, you get to like version, forty one in your head you're so far removed from where you actually started to be that you don't it's like it's like telephone game in your own brain, at least creatively, and it becomes his warp fucking thing. And I was like so often you forget that you might have to go back to ground zero to start again. And it was like this dish that you're making is not even remotely based on cabbage. You've lost the cabinet shit. And all I'm trying to say is like don't edit in your head. And if you fuck this up version one two three four five if you continue to interet on that dish physically and Mike make notes and be logical and rational and take all of this information in if you did it if you did it that way, and you got the version forty again, I doubt that you would be at the place you're at right now. I would I wish he'd guarantee you wouldn't be at that point. So for me, it's like, you know, there's this quote, and it's not I can't remember who said it because it's such a fucking impossible book. Ulysses jobs, but like Arizona, the portals discovery errors of the portals discovery genuinely like if I got one tattoo, which I never will. That would be something. I would believe in. I do believe in so failure in that regard is the most important thing. So when you're young and you're stupid, but you have enough training that you can actually execute something. You're more willing to fuck up and figure out from that mistake, something that someone. Had more wisdom or experience would never have even seen. What are your friends chef friends like Rene say when you throw out this theory 'cause they're like aren't they like fuck you? I'm still waiting. I'm still doing everybody. Chint the best of, you know, people have to sort of believe that the their best work is a head. Yes. I believe that. And I think though that what a lot of some even like someone like Rene he is. And he would still disagree anything. If he's here, I'm saying he is not physically doing it himself anymore. He is now using his wisdom to put other people in positions of success. And that's still the creative process, but he's more of a producer. Yeah. And I just want to figure out how to maximize each point on this trajectory as best. I can is that true of you. Because we're going to say I could counter that you have become a better chef over the years that I think major Domo is it's a mature restaurant. So. Oh, yeah. Yes. So doesn't that sort of crush your theory? Yeah. I guess it does. Killed nobody. I mean for me, though, major dome was like, ultimately, I think what might Trump that is when you have something to say hike like I had to get it off my chest. Right. That restaurant was I felt very strongly that if that failed my crew was over really. Yeah. I'd put all of that pressure on. And I I wanted to make sure that tenuously about your career. Well, I just felt like nothing matters if this fails. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And that's just how I. Yeah. And it wasn't even it's not when I rephrase it wasn't just me. It was the people in the team that we have there that we believe in each other to get to a goal that. We we all shared. We actually all share what we wanted the restaurant to be and I shared with them. What I some of the ideas, I hadn't they shared some of their ideas. And we work really hard to get to that goal. Ultimately, an I've told them this major Domo doesn't have to be like I just wrote the first paragraph. I want to end on a positive note, the new the new positive Dave Chang who out there now is underrated either chefs or restaurants, who when you go out there who who inspires you. It makes you think Dan, that's the next. That's the next wave. I mean why? Now when people come in the town, I feel like everyone wants to eat Ed via Kuroda I have to ask myself. It's like what is Rita and even though Jody's is not technically there. But like, they're I think they're both involved in everything they do together. It's like somehow they they're in the spotlight just enough and people love their fucking restaurants, and they're homey to. Yeah. And they all put it's also fucking delicious. Yeah. And. They make a kind of simulation of burger that I actually do dream about that is fucking awesome. And I just think that that's cool. It's like, oh, wait like they do their thing. And if they get more recognition greatest, not they don't care they have restaurants in Japan, and France, it's like Bouvet and Peres in Tokyo. Outside of the world. I don't know in terms of like doing cool shit. You know, I mean like, you know, run as one of my best friends. I just think what known was doing right now is like the closest thing we sort of have to like, the fashion like putt couture. Like right now, it's like so fucking out there in the best positive way. Everyone asks me for Paris. Like, I think PASCAL Bo is still like pound for pound the best chef in the world. Where is he in near the Eiffel tower? I don't remember the the the district strong is the three Michelin stars. But how he does it. Right. You in in some ways, you have two schools of cooking. Now, you have the robo Sean way, which is very systemized and it works like clockwork. And then you have the free flowing improvise ation of the peer gone year or Peche way that which is the veg- vegetables. Yeah. Small centric. So our page you say of two schools. Yeah. The robot Sean wing, which is like Swiss clockwork. And then you have the the improvise ational ingredient driven -ness of all on Sar. And that to me are like the prevailing like your p insensible American Centric ways. And weirdly enough. I would never have thought that petard would probably be the most influential chef of the past fifty years, but I'd probably say that I think he's clips for non. So you know, like if you can cook in that vein. That's something that I I I like a lot more because I think it's both are very difficult. Very different schools of thought why do you say is the most influential just because he's the first guy to really embrace vegetables in sort of way. She just was. She was so ahead of the curve. And and he's. Been more ingredient driven. And he was the first person to do like like in the ninety s he is the jacuzzi against the meat industry. He did so many things that I think people might see as noxious, but I can't see another chef right now as influential as Ron and Heston and Keller and all those guys are also waters. I think casare today if I go out to dinner is the most dominant chef in most restaurants that I I see then people may not even realize it. But how he looks at food. How he plays food. That's to me everywhere. And I mean easily I could be wrong, but I see his patterns and fingerprints in more restaurants than any other chef in the world. Do you think L as the most influential food city now, I do believe that one hundred percent and sorry, New York? Like, listen, I I've been here a long time and it pains me to say that. But if you have been here a long time if you haven't recognized a shit. Shift like then your heads in the sand. And I think entirely that has to do with hubris and economics, why would a younger cook live here as difficult as it is when they may never get their opportunity to open up a restaurant when they could make more money in Tennessee and have their own spot or Austin, and then Houston, like it's just the fact that every city in America, literally has a great restaurant and a sustainable economy can open up restaurants and the democratization of food has been great for America and bad from New York and New Yorkers just gotta deal with it. And instead of bitching about it. Everyone's New York's just got to do a better job. Where have you eaten in besides Koreatown? Because you always take your town in LA besides midge Domo that you'd say everyone's gotta go there. I mean, just 'cause oh God bless her. I think squirrel is just one of my favorite places anywhere because it's a food. You want to eat all the time and people think that it's just like breakfast food. And when you eat it, it's really good. It's. Good because she's thoughtful. And she's a great chef. And she uses techniques that are incredibly smart. So I don't think she gets nearly enough credit the animal guys obviously with their growing empire. It's amazing. Jon Benet, Jon Vinnie. You know, you have a lot of different people Dave baron. I still haven't been there yet and twenty logged dialogue in the sin. Santa Monica at next you have Jessica Lardy who I think is we had her on my pod has opened up a in the arts district called Simone. I haven't yet to nine there. But I think she might be the most talented chef like in America today under a certain age group. Right. But even that's sort of stupid. I just she sort of like this weird prodigy that hasn't fucked it up, and she so sensible immature. It's scary. Really? Wow. I'm I to go there. And I also hear you talking about it about L A so much more exciting than you talk about New York. Because again, it's not because of New York and not talking positively like we're here. We're opening more stuff in your than anywhere else. New York is still going to be the greatest city to live in. And when I say, it doesn't have the best food culture. That's not true. It's still the best like technical eating town. But there are more people trying to fuck up in LA. I think that's it. It's like school. You don't have people that are trying weird shit, man. And I love that it's weird. And it's getting more weird. There is a beat to LA that's hard to replicate anywhere else. And again, like, I'm so pro Houston because of the diversity and people, and this is where I get positive, right? Yeah. Yeah. That's trying to end appreciative mode. Because like I while I'm a pessimist I say, I'm weirdly the best kind of optimistic because I'm a pessimist that hopes to be wrong. Right. So. I think that LA, and I spent a lot of time there when I I I can see when people get upset from LA when they say the New Yorkers or people from the east coast say, oh, yeah. L really good. Now. I see I understand. Now. Why though like, oh, you're just discovering Greenmarket are discovering are giant Latino population. The fact that we have world-class Korean food Thai food, you name it Filipino food across the board. It's like the world wasn't ready for what? And we didn't need your fucking approval. For New Yorkers to finally come over and say, hey, this is a pretty quick respect to their like you guys. We don't need you to tell us that we've got to go on on. We gotta going on which is why we chose to live. But I gotta say the food scene is way way better and both L A and Houston or two places where you go there now. And it's almost like you can't it's like that that, you know, try and take a sip out of water out of a fire hydrant where you just you just get blown away. Hot people can try shit out man and not to me so excited when people are willing to do something in any anytime you start a business, and this is again trying to mature because I used to shit talk my business all the time when anyone would do anything. How stupid it was now? I'm like, dude any time. Anyone tries to open up a business. God bless them. And I hope nothing but success because it's so fucking hard. You have no idea if some individuals like myself leverage, everything, right? And they're just hoping for a better date. And they don't know what the fuck that is so. Anytime someone opens up a business you want them to succeed because I've seen too many people lose their fucking shirt. So when people don't succeed in this business. It is like so fucking San right because there's alternately it's not a business of that's going to reward you financially. You know, it's got it's got a feed the spirit or something like that. Dave Chang, talk to you all day, we got to wrap it up ending on a positive note. Thanks so much and everybody go eat at MoMA FU. Check out the new restaurant watch ugly, delicious. Listen to the Dave Chang show the podcast. Thanks for being my guest. Thank you. Hey, thanks for listening to Matt influence. We'll be releasing new episodes every two weeks. And if you liked what you heard leave us a review or a comment on itunes, or whatever platform you used to listen. Thanks, and we'll see you next time.

Dave Chang Matt New York LA David Chang New York sous chef Jim Nelson Chris Houston Tokyo America Rene Sean wing Sombor Netflix Ron Bong bar cook
Being Asian and Latino

Latino USA

25:47 min | 1 year ago

Being Asian and Latino

"Support for NPR and the following message. Come from Chapman university located in the hub of southern California's thriving industries and designated as a high research activity institution Chapman university here to inspire achievement at Chapman dot EDU slash NPR. Thank you so much for listening to let USA we want to better understand who's listening and how you're using our podcast. So help us out by completing a short anonymous survey at NPR dot org slash podcast survey. One word it takes just a few minutes. And it really helps support the show. That's NPR dot org slash podcast survey. Thank you. World cup. I'm argentinian. I mean, if if you search pictures of me, you will find me wearing my Argentine in jersey, and I I would from ESI, but they always asked me. So if Argentina and career played who is root for them. Yeah. Hey, I was one of here. I grew up here like get the bus of Lago show. From NPR and Fudo media. It's let new USA I'm marina pasta and today on being Asian and let go. In the United States. The two fastest growing ethnic groups are Asians and letting knows and these groups are not neutrally exclusive. For centuries immigrants from Asia have settled throughout Latin America. There's Korean communities in Mexico and in Argentina, there are Chinatowns everywhere from central mingle to Lima. There's a major Japanese population in Brazil, and that's just a few of the many Asian communities that exists in the region. The descendants of those immigrants carry both Asian and Latin American identities and inside the US, Asians and Latinos have lived side by side in heavily immigrant neighborhoods and have created lives together. So today, we're going to hear from four of our listeners who we invited to be on our show to talk about their Asian Latino identity and how it is shaped their experiences in the United States. David Chang is approving American of Chinese descent. He's a project coordinator for a nonprofit in San Francisco Cristiano Saudi is the daughter of Filipina mother and a Salvadoran father born in southern California, and she's a community organizer now in the bay area. Bob, low Kim is a chef and entrepreneur he's the son of Korean immigrants and was born in Argentina, he's based in Los Angeles. And finally, Sophie Khan is an actress who stars in the award winning one woman show called makes his Donny growing up Mexican Pakistani in America. She grew up in my hometown of Chicago. And now lives in LA. We're going to start by talking about the term chino, which means Chinese in Spanish, but it's often used in Latin America to refer to all Asians or even anyone who looks vaguely Asian regardless of where they may have come from. So let's jump straight into the conversation. So David, you know, you actually wrote to our producer Genesee mocha, and you basically a lot you wrote. You're like, okay, I gotta tell I gotta ask something of Latino USA. So what was the question? So the question that I wanted to try and figure out was how do other Asians identify coming from Latino background? My name is David Chang. And I grew go into Chinese Emerson school and speaking Spanish at home. Tino in Latin America, a lot of people that are are called chino. You know that could be from Creon backgrounds. It could be from Japanese backgrounds. They could be from a number of different Asian backgrounds, but they're still considered chino and growing up. I think I heard that word a lot both in Latino communities that grew up around friends from central America, South America. I also grew up in California. So I look Filipina, and I would just by my own family members be called Gino or just in the streets of L A B called Gina. My name's Christie Ozorio. I was born in Los Angeles to a Filipino and Salvador, Ian couple, I actually asked my mom about this. I was like, so what do you think about this? And she's the Filipina and she's like, oh, yeah. She no that's just a cute way of saying like Asian girl on Mike. Okay. Cool because you know, I get called chino. And she's like what you're not Chinese. I don't get it. Like, how do you really feel about this? I mean, personally for me, I think growing up in California a lot of people have really embraced it. Like, I ride by this car every single day that has she need though as a giant sticker on the back of the car. So I don't know you have to put it in context. And it's all about like intent to someone's trying to use that word derogatory towards me. I'm like, I'm not feeling it. But if someone wanted to just call me a Cina because it's an term of endearment than I'm all about it. So Bubalo you were a contestant on the moon show. Master chef Latino putting these misleading. In fact, I let go see the muster shipped Latini, and you had your own experience with this term genome. So tell us what that was when I'm public him. I was born in Argentina, my parents were both Korean and I moved to the states in two thousand I've been living here ever since this was about a year ago. And we were in Miami Goto. Brought to his brother racing. People are just referred to me as it, you know. And I'm like case like, it's cool. But you guys don't really know me all that much. When you don't know me. And you just me just because it's the easiest thing for you those like I kinda take offense to that. I think I've come to feel over the years that as long as I am not reduced to one unique characteristic of my appearance. I'm actually okay with it. But then again, it really comes back to the relationship with that person. Can I ask you guys? How often have you sat around and had conversations about being letty? No Latino and Asian the first conversation if anything was with my parents because they were the ones that kind of had to street in a lot of things. Hi, my name's Sophie Khan. I am bicultural and bilingual, and bisexual, and my parents are Mexican Pakistani. And I am all of that. I didn't really realize what I was until I had a babysitter that what you know. A lot of my babysitter's were either black Regan and on. So you can imagine what my Spanish sounded like like, mommy, you'll get all those phone you'll get and so. Like, what are you getting to sponge from and I'm like well. Yeah. That's that's that's how talked knowing. She's like, no me. Ha she's like, then it wasn't until later like this. She explained she's like, no, you're you're babysitters Puerto Rican, and you were Mexican and Pakistani. So let's talk a little bit about the multiplicity of identity and how you guys kind of live with that. So David you've talked about, you know, when you go to Peru, which is your parent's homeland being Chinese for you is essentially just being Peruvian because it's pretty common. Correct. But when you come back to the United States, you're Peruvian side, basically disappears in everybody just sees you as Chinese I grew up in the neighborhood that had a lot of people from Latin America from those from you gotta while from that quarter. They always saw me as Chinese even though you know, we would speak Spanish amongst friends and amongst family members. They always tell me as this other person. And I think that was really hard growing up on the other side. I also went to Chinese emerging school in San Francisco where a lot of the people that I went to school with where from Cantonese backgrounds or know Chinese-speaking backgrounds, and I'd go to their houses on play dates or just to have fun, and I wouldn't be able to interact with our families which made it really difficult for me. They basically said, you know, you're not necessarily Chinese shaking your head. You're like we're doing video collie. You're shaking your head. Yes. Yes. Yes. What was that about? I mean, I've gone through the same. The very same experience were I've actually lived in Mexico City. I've lived in Korea in I've had the chance to be fully rejected by people from all over the place. It's a tough pill to swallow. It's no no being rejected by people that look exactly like you because you may not necessarily speak the language perfectly or because you just dress differently. So it's it's kinda hard. I'm like nodding my head to I'm like almost to tears because feeling rejected from like every culture is really hard. Hard. It's like, you're never Filipino enough. You're never Salvadorian enough and definitely not white. And so you're probably saying, yeah. All of that confusion, and then some yeah, I've had a lot of what I called my gestation chronicles, and I was living in east LA one time. I was asking a cashier who I say was lengthy. No, I asked him. What was like, hey, like how much is this parking water, and he's asking his BAAs and in Spanish, right? And the guy goes on, you know, just go rela single knoll Yossi. Selene the old the-an that narrow. Over charter because you know, those Indian folks rich they gotta made. And I was like, oh they've heard of that. I said why they haunt. Those are welcome. And I don't know if I can see them. My gosh. All right. So you grew up in Argentina. And I'm wondering if there's this notion there of Asians being the model minority. I mean, that's often the stereotype here in the United States. But did you have to face that in Argentina? Or are there different stereotypes there when I was in Argentina Asia's over their business owners, my parents are interpreters themselves. Everybody in my family are enterpreneurs in. We would get a lot of people saying, no, you guys are welcome here. Because no you guys are here. Breaking your bags doing everything that you guys need to do educating yourself and establishing something for yourselves. So we would get that on Sundays, and we will get the go back to the country on some others. Mostly when customers we're not happy with whatever they bought. Your favorite food, which one is it is it Latino or Asian David which one. I would say it's lucky favorite proving dishes, probably like cycle and also growing up in California, just like Britos and tacos and one time I went to a park in the bottle of up DO shattered on the floor. And I almost cried. So. And so he what what's your favorite food? My favorite food has been the food that my parents make and it's sometimes it'll be mix. My mom will make that goes chicken Tikka masala taco she'd be like we're gonna take your dad's leftovers from yesterday. We're gonna put it THEO van you go dinner. Coming up on new USA our conversation about being Asian and let me know continues. Stay with us. I'm Bob Boylan creator of the tiny concert series. We've just launched the twenty nineteen tiny desk. Contest. It's our search for the next great undiscovered artist. The winner gets to play a tiny desk concert. It'll change your life. Find out more at NPR dot org slash tiny desk. Contest. He we're Bank. And when we left off we were talking about stereotypes of Asians in Latin America and about Asian versus letting food. And now, I'm going to share a story about food from my very first trip to Asia. I remember when the first time in my life that I went to Asia it was early in the morning, and we started walking the streets, and we came upon a bakery in Taipei Taiwan. You guys I totally freaked out because I looked in the window. And I was like this is a Mexican bakery. They have gone Chaz. They had own is they have like it was the same kind of bakery goods. I was freaking out. I literally had one of those moments where I was like, oh my God my roots. My Mexican roots are in Asia as well. For me. Everybody's trying to divide us send us back home. But actually like seeing the gunshot a Mexican bread in Taipei. I was like, nah, we are totally the same people either that or Mexicans are everywhere. Like, there's there's one thing that I notice between the Mexican culture, and they Korean culture is that we both liked beans. We all have short tempers, and both coaches are very family oriented, there are really more things that United dividers. And I don't see why people don't see those things issues escapes me. Why why we do these species, really? You know, if you are that connects and Asian right now in the United States of America, you are part of the two fastest growing demographic groups in our country. So is some ways people might say, you guys are like the superheroes of the film. Have you flipped it? So that you guys are like, you know, forget all y'all who are excluding us. We understand deeply that. We have this superpower that just reminds me of an experience where I think growing up late at a lot of soccer. And a lot of times you come across people that were like such a neat though. Right. So that's kind of like my Trump card like I could be here and play in both places and in both cultures at once. I think that's also played out in my career as well. I navigate a lot of different communities and spaces. Speaking Spanish has definitely helped me communicate with a lot of different communities that can't speak up for themselves and kind of navigating different relationships and trying to highlight different stories and people's voices. So I think language has definitely helped me be in two different places at once. So so being able to speak Chinese Cantonese and Mandarin and then also Spanish as well as help me and have the world a little bit better Kristie. I kinda see my superpower as like super validation, where I'm like, you know, people might not think I'm Filipina for Salvadorian enough or whatever. But I'm like, hey, my experiences are real and your experiences are real. And I'm here to witness that for you. 'cause I am I didn't necessarily have that for myself. Growing up you were mentioning like Asian and Latin next communities are going or the next largest population in the United States. And for me, it's always been split. Like, you're either in or your Latin, and I wanna make sure that Asian Latin x communities are also being represented in that demographic as well because we're all mating with each other. Don't forget about all of us here. The been like we're like the off shoots of all these great population growth. So. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a log me to have great empathy for folks that have been ostracized from their communities. I have a special kinship for letting owes that maybe have been here in the US for about five generations, or whatever and don't know Spanish and get bothered when someone speaks to them in Spanish, and they feel like oh, man. I should know. But I don't know. No. And they feel like less than I get it because I don't speak fluent or do more like don't I don't speak it. So it's it's it's just I think that's would it's a lot of me to be is just have a lot of empathy for folks on and again folks that have been Desai's from different communities. So I guess just to end how have you found the place that has made you feel whole what have you done? How have you founded or are you still struggling than let's start with David? I think something that has helped in terms of finding a place that I can say that it's helped me center myself is definitely amongst family and friends who also identify as coming from this lat next Asian background so trying to find people that are like minded, and and can relate and have those similar stories. What about you Kristy? Yeah. I feel so lucky to like have moved to a area where there's just a lot of people from different backgrounds, and it's made me feel a lot more comfortable in my own skin. I think growing up in white suburbs. Really messed me up. Like, it was, you know, there was this really big time of like just being called all these types of things not feeling accepted in any community. And then finally just like taking off and going to college and meeting new people, even if they weren't necessarily Asian Latin x just like hearing other people's experiences to like has really helped. And actually what I really really appreciate is these conversations being put out in media so much I've been really really feeling certain outlets like Ramezanzadeh, why do so many Latinos were chino to describe Asian people? And better like, I'm half, Taiwanese and half Brazilian Mexican and Filipino. They talked about these types of things I was recently watching this on Univision like what that like for the first time ever in my life, like they acknowledged Asian Latinos. And this was like last week bob'll everybody who. Who knows me has known me for over a decade will tell you that I am constantly reinventing myself, I pick and choose whatever is more of an teachers from me at the time in the position that I am depending on what I'm trying to do. So in a way, I think I have a pretty stable core. But at the same time, I want to tell you that is constantly shifting. There's always something changing. And they're all this competitions are great because they shed light on things that are oftentimes if Nord, and I think that that's even going on into this political sphere and everything that's going on. And we only get to understand these things once we are made aware, and I think that is it's a lifelong process where we're always trying to see and discover ourselves and try to understand why we do the things that we do. I would say understanding that bubble grew up in Argentina where there is a lot of psycho. Therapy. That was really well done. Highest ratio per capita of therapists to human beings. So that was very eloquent true story true story. So fi just wrap it up. I love in the community. I mean, you wanna talk about like a community of folks that have gone through so much within their own families within society within like different issues in the legal system. That's where I kind of find a safe haven to be quite honest, where not getting picked on because I don't because I don't know how to make the mollis or I'm not getting picked on because I messed up and ate with my left hand because a left hand is considered the dirty honed in a slum and the right Hon is considered the clean, and you know, like, I just being me and loving and connecting. And it's love is love. And in the end love wins. Guys. Thank you so much for speaking with me so fee. Con Bubalo Kim Cristiano Saudi and David Chang. Thank you so much for opening your hearts and sharing with us. We really appreciate it as many. Mighty affects. David Chan is a project coordinator for a nonprofit in San Francisco Christie or Saudi is a community organizer in the bay area. Pablo Kim is a chef and entrepreneur. And Sophie Khan is an actress who stars in the award winning one woman show called nexus Donnie growing up Mexican and Pakistan e in America, and I wanna thank all of them so much for such an honest conversation. This episode was produced by Janice woke up and edited by Marlin Bishop to let you know USA team includes the Musseuw's so. Yep. Lisa. Antonio he Maggie freeling and say or give with help from my equity. Additional Eddie by Elsa. Mcadam? Our engineers are Steph the bow. And Julia Crusoe production manager, isn't that a few holds our interns are Carolina giving and Lucas third. Our theme music was composed by saying yet, if you like the music you heard on the Sepah we should've stopped by let USA dot Oregon. Check out our weekly Spotify, platelets and one more thing for our podcast listeners. Can I ask you a favor? Just take a moment to rate and review let you know USA on whatever podcast app, you listen to us on because this really helps other people to find us, and we know you want to help us do that. And also truth be told all of the staff loves reading your comments. So keep them coming. I'm your host and executive producer Medina also. And I love reading your comments to join us on our next episode of the program. And in the meantime, look for us on all of your social media. I'll. You there Gile? Let's see no USA is made possible. In part by the Ford Foundation, working with visionaries on the frontlines of social change worldwide. The John D and Catherine T MacArthur foundation and hiding Simon's foundation unlocking knowledge opportunity and possibilities. More at H. S foundation dot org. Have you have you had the Filipino burritos up in the bay area? I don't think I have I've got up here. We just made a date for the next time. We're all gonna meet Filipino. Hosa and next time on let the USA conversation with jazz musician and director of the afro Latin jazz work, stra o'farrell. We talk about his latest project fandango at the wall. That's next time on the USA. Support for this podcast and the following message. Come from the American Jewish World Service working together for more than thirty years to build a more just and equitable world. Learn more at AJ, WS dot ORG.

United States Argentina Latin America California David NPR Los Angeles David Chang Asia Sophie Khan San Francisco America chino Bob Boylan Chapman university USA. coordinator Pablo Kim Lima
Eat a Peach Preopening Diaries With Gabe Ulla

The Dave Chang Show

1:16:13 hr | 3 months ago

Eat a Peach Preopening Diaries With Gabe Ulla

"Jiang show part of the ringer. PODCAST network presented by. Major. Domo media. Thank you to Yolo Tango as always for letting us, use their music in the introduction. I didn't think we would have another pre-opening diary so soon, but we have one of the last one was a couple of weeks ago with the author slash, Chef Lisa Donovan in you should check out her memoir, the Our Lady of perpetual hunger fantastic book. She's an amazing writer. Great Person Listened to that podcast and this podcast slash pre-opening diaries is self serving because it's about my book a memoir called eat a peach. And we are talking with Chris King who helped edit and support myself and my co author on this Gabe Ula go through this process, and here we are talking to members of, Momofuku who are asking US questions at the end and we just wanted to get a lot of our team on zoom call and just talk about the process of the book and so much of the book is tied to Momofuku. So we thought it'd be a good idea to sort of get you know some of our current members on this call was well. I don't need to talk anymore I feel we are talking about my own book on my own podcast at my own company but. Hopefully. It's illuminating for you. MIGHT BE UPSET IF I wasn't promoting it. So please pre order this book it comes out September eight, eat a peach by Clarkson potter an imprint of random. House. You can preorder at your independent, bookstores Amazon. Barnes and noble you name it, it's going to be available on your e slash kindle slash ibooks on. Audible and all kinds of audio books, and of course, the hardcover eat a peach. Check it out I appreciate the support. And here is our conversation pre-opening diaries with crushing Gabe. Lula. And several members of the moment fuqua team. I am joined with Chris King, my quarantine partner, and gave Hula. Co author of eat a peach a memoir by this. Guy Named David Chang who is such a narcissist he has a show called the Dave Chang show as well so. Welcome everybody. We are also joined by Momofuku team on this call because we wanted to sort of share a lot of what we've done on this book and. You know have a conversation. So this would be filed under a pre-opening diaries. And we'll see how it goes. So having never done this before and having never written a memoir before and a lot of these issues that we talk about in this book, I, think are going to be informative and educational for our team. Momofuku and anyone that's a listener out there will that Chris Yanks start this off. Yes. So this is a weird one chain because you've been working on this book for. How long I mean, what were you? I asked to write a memoir. We were asked to write a memoir. Around thirty five. So. Almost eight years ago we signed the contract I think probably when I was thirty six and it would make sense in the book I think one of the main reasons I needed to do it, but I never did it was I needed the money seriously at the time. So, we signed that and then I really wrestled with the idea of like my God what a giant mistake I have nothing to say and what kind of Asshole at the thirty six thirty seven writes memoir except for like the worst people in the world. So I was like maybe if I just hold off and then over that period of time I convinced myself. It doesn't have to be more. This could be like a framer on how to run a business small business, and that's how I told myself as I can convince myself of anything which would be and then I just decided to put on the backburner until my agents said, what are you doing? You're like you know how? You have to actually fulfil your contract, pay it back right sounds like shit I gotta do this and you're like, what do you mean what I'm doing I'm trying to starve him out. I'm just laying siege to this book never write it. I'm just camped out outside. So at what point did you team up with? We should we should welcome. Gabe here everybody Hey when did you to link up and when did it become apparent to you chain? You're going to need Gabes help on this thing. Well. Obviously I've known Gabe sense I don't know over ten years or so because. The think the first time I worked with Gabe was when you do something for Gizmodo or something like that. No, but I was I was in I was an internet or meter. Oh, that was it. That was like I was still in college when I met you was a sophomore I remember my first beer. So we worked, we worked on like video thing and like Gabe was just somebody that like many people that Mahmood Yakubu sort of community would just come in to eat a lot and obviously got to know a lot of people out our restaurants and became friends with friends that I've had over the years. He's been published a tremendous amount and I just thought it would be. A good opportunity to SORTA give Gabe. The chance to like grow into this thing and I offered him the opportunity to work with me and I was like dude I don't know how to do this. You don't know how to do this and those that are on this call will know I have a tendency or propensity to really align myself with people that have. Not established themselves but I am a huge believer in the talent of people and the prospects of where they can go and that's what I believe gave I was like this guy's super talented and I think that we can become closer as friends as partners if we're in this together particularly because Gabe never done anything like this is why was so appealing to me Absolutely terrifying. No joke though what do jump at this right away I mean I wasn't privy to these conversations at all. So I'm super curious where you. Re like one hundred percent or re trepidation were your concerns about this I mean simultaneously like one hundred percent but. I'm so scared it's paralyzing. and. It didn't help the Dave was like, yeah. Let's do a essays about leadership then meanwhile, the publisher was like, no, no no, we want a book about it. Well, that's important. It's important to note gave because that shows you the disconnect in my mind when I approach Gabe it was about. A look into time and the do's and don'ts. That you deep down. Pitch the case she really did you deep down think that that was going to fly or was that your way of getting into memo-writing? No no no I. Don't you know this Chris, but it's not hyperbole. I have and those that are on this call. No this I have this crazy pathological ability to make myself believe something. That is absolutely maybe true to only me. To No one else, and for sure I believe that this was going to be a handbook almost like a textbook of how to operate a business I really believe that until water splashed on my face buyer agent well, you know what it's interesting and maybe I don't want to jump too far ahead here. But but that thing you know we're kinda joking about it. A little bit here that you can convince yourself that you were supposed to write a business advice manual and not a memoir. But that dynamic that like your convincing yourself anything and learning to see things for what they truly are is really what this book is about a large part about this book is, is a view learning to see other perspectives in and so You know it's a joke, but it also really speaks to something you're concerned about for yourself. Growing. Well. The funny thing is is exactly what I said if that could be extrapolated. which is, I. Think has been a strengthening me and a terrible Achilles heel. Is My ability to believe one thing that again is probably not true but truthful to me. So. How do I describe this? Like. It can propel me to do things. I. Shouldn't do. But it also prevents me from seeing anything else and give me tunnel vision. and. Data can be incredibly unhealthy in the long term and part of that is my ability to learn from past mistakes and to see that Oh however I view the world was actually. Incredibly myopic and shortsighted. Other. Times. Just a gradual learn like you'll learn something. I know this going to seem like a non sequitur but I remember growing up in school loving dinosaurs and the teacher saying, oh, they're dumb. They're cold blooded and their brains were small and there was just stupid. I mean literally Donald Heard. Source And then now I I. I loved dinosaurs I. Loved Stegosaurus. Source and then you later learn like, no, no no they weren't wildly intelligent and they were this and they were that. there. Are Certain things that you believe in the world that change because the world at large has new data points and it is a gradual evolution of acceptance. That is like one bucket but so many times for me. It was emotionally like tunnel vision and a lot of that I've learned was. Defense mechanisms. Because of trump as I've grown up as a kid, a lot of that obviously was with me and my psychiatric SORTA therapy. But so much of me who I am was like I just wish I could be normal because I knew early on how I see the world is. Different and I just WanNa be normal. But also how I view the world is like. Sometimes make believe in my life right and. It's hard for me to describe and I still deal with this just talked to my wife she's just can be very problematic for me. Yeah I mean. I think the biggest example of that in what you're talking about in very concrete terms is as a young person. Kitchen life was life or death everything was. The end all be all and that's what propelled you to success. But ultimately, also you reach a certain point where you started to see things differently right? Like that's one of the main main things in this book. So I mean Gabe I wanted to ask you for working with somebody like Dave, who's WHO's trying so hard to see multiple perspectives and. Who is growing even through the writing process like how hard was that for you to like keep an eye on this kind of consistency of perspective through the book? Well, one thing I'll add I think another reason you were resistant was that you it was a time in your life that was very different from now you are picking up the pieces. Things weren't going as great. The only thing going for you and think that was you had married grace but you know you hadn't open major Domo Nishi. Had Gotten panned and you're sort of trying to figure things out and serve stage your next stand. Wouldn't you start and where tell me about more of that context of where Dave was what year did you start and how did you get into those like before we started I had an reconciled with Chris yet right. That was like a little over two and a half years ago. So we started over two and a half years ago for sure there's a podcast. No TV show it's probably three and a half years ago we began this process. I will add though now that I can reflect upon that period now because it was three and a half plus years ago, and you were saying about what was happening in my life, I think what was preventing me from absolutely understanding what needed to happen was the best way I can ascribe it is like I was paying by my how I live my life and how I interact with people and it was so painful because it like looking at bat outfit or bad haircut or just something you cringe that. And it was coming to terms with an reckoning with like, Oh, you actually have to own that. Have you behave in a certain way that can't rationalize it happen and you acted like a Nimbus old and you were angry and you were a jerk and your mother fucker in so many different ways and you can still be these things. And I'm still in that process of trying to understand like that happen. Why did it happen? And to really face. And to non-eu early life as well. Yeah and that you know that gave like I just don't like talking about it at all because it her and so much of this was looking. With twenty twenty vision at so many parts of my life that I intentionally. For whatever reasons mainly because they're painful. Did Not. Want to look at or think about or to Marinate, and because it took me out of my tunnel vision. But, I will say once it came time to of. Laid on the table you did it was like four hours five hour sessions sitting on the couch. Four or five hour sessions of what what would you dave what was the process of this? They were not structured. It was just me going David's apartment. He would always have a to seltzer on the table. Sit in the living room. And he just talked about everything. I mean, did you come with certain subjects you wanted to ask him about? was there a process for you of getting him to lay out like you said did he was he resistant I? Yeah here at first a little bit resistant, but just kept at it and over time it was just serve like. He lecco when it's like look. It. I mean, I remember being joined in with you guys sort of later in the process you had quite a bit of work done and I sat there for a few of these sessions or you know the three of us sat in Dave's apartment and I remember Chang you. Spilling everything the talking about every single aspect without filter. and. I think the challenge at some points was Gabe when I were like would look at each other be like he can't really mean we should put that in the book. Right? This is just a private. And he's he doesn't and ultimately I think this book is incredibly candid. To the point where sometimes I think about and I I look and I worry for you Chang, just about how open you are. But you know there were certainly moments where we had to pull back a little bit whereas like we can't really talk about it that way and and can you talk a little bit about any sort of parameters or lines where that you felt like was too much. I think there's two specific areas one the when it comes with my family and my father. I mean I'm getting emotional. Just thinking about it. 'cause like you know there's been good families are fucked up and I have. A loving yet strained relationship with my family and I think that was hard and you don't WanNa ever hurt anybody secondly was with people that came through Momofuku I just was I. I WANNA talk about everybody. But only if it's in a positive light and I don't want anyone to feel bad or feel like to have any resentment and that was the hardest part was finding ways and like I didn't WANNA put words in anyone's mouth and that was so important to me. I was like fuck like this is just my recollection and. I really wanted and we sort of talked about this and other podcasts in my mind would turn into like every conversation and every conversation where multiple you points and I don't know why. But again, that's what I thought. Sort of it was going to be it was going to be a three sixty process of almost every event in my life and I think the two of you guys were like this is not like again stream of consciousness Ma'am on this is. Has To be pared down and whittle down in my fear and that whittling down was that it was going to hurt people. And that's not what I wanted to do. And I think that the hardest part was on top of the probably a third part was my anger and how that's been unleashed on people over the years and I'm still reckoning with that man and that's not been easy and I still have these issues and it's been a process of understanding that and growth. Will. The impossible challenge is to. Acknowledge that person you were and just because you're a better version of yourself now doesn't forgive that pass version, but you also have to forgive yourself. That's this. Trump learning how to do I really fucking hurts me because it's. This goes back to a lot of what this book is too. I really try to way this like it's a scale. If. I never open up Momofuku. Would my life better what I have done more positive things to this world and the people in this world than if I didn't write or if I had opened up, have I done more good than the not? And I'll be honest guys. teeters I fifty fifty. For me at least. And I don't I. Don't know how I feel about that. That's one perspective I'm sure if I was looking at others perspectives, it could be great or worse but you know I personally am in that battle of being like, okay. If it is say sixty forty bad to good dave. Then you have. Some years left on your life that you can change those scales and you can do good. But part of me also just like fuck you dave. Like you had your opportunity, shut the fuck up and go away. And the other thing that complicates that little bit is also that you seem to believe that if it weren't for Google, you know there's a chance you might not be here it was born of depression. That's that's the hardest part to in a lot of people who may or may not know this or they feel that was hyperbole sorry for the spoiler. The main I opened a Mufi who was. I was in the worst part of depression and it was like. And those that know have work with me know that I always tried to weigh things like I guess on a scale and. A binary thing, and I try to be reductive, and this is a lot of how I think actually derives from what I learned in college and particularly logic class and. And how scientists make decisions and I try to look at all the scenarios and so much of what I can do and everyone can get caught in this quagmire of trying to come up with scenarios that make sense an inner sensible. And are most likely to potentially happen, and that's all like put on a spectrum. That's all stuck in this traffic jam that's in the middle. But there are all sorts of defined by the universe in a spectrum and equation of the worse case in the best case, right what are the outliers at formulate everything else that might happen in that sort of set of equations and I know I sound like a crazy person, but it's literally how I think. And for me, it was always what's worse than the best case and a lot of how I think if you read those men were a lot of it comes from like how I was raised and religion and coming up religious household. It's like having our hell everything was either or proposition. And at that point in my life got to such a bad place where it was like I'm either going to end my life or not, and if I'm not there two options for me, if I'm not going to move to God I, was going to move to like a leper colony because I ran around that time I think like motorcycle diaries came out I was like Oh that means I can do something for this world where who cares about or I can do something that. I'm not supposed to do. which is open a restaurant nobody believed in me, and in terms of the money I really thought on a C. to is this is this is the things that didn't make the book I was even going to try to commit loan fraud. To school getting alone for school to go to graduate program. But. Using. THAT MONEY Without even thinking about the repercussions to start Momofuku because it's around the same price point of to your program of Graduate Program. That's literally what it was because I was twenty six a lot of my friends were going to business school or higher education some format and I was like, oh, like I was going through everything I was like. Because like here in the mindset then was. I don't care if I incur crazy debt. I'm going to be dead. Anyway I'm GonNa be dead either tomorrow or ten years or twenty five years who fucking cares as long as I don't hurt someone else. which is the irony and all this I've learned that I've heard a lot of people along the way like as long as they don't hurt someone else I don't fucking care. So let's just go out guns blazing like I literally felt that I was. You know a lot of this was cancer in my family. You know I found my mom trying to live life for the first time in a long time when she was diagnosed with terminal cancer, which was prolonged for years and years and I was like wait all of a sudden people start to live their life when they're not supposed to have any more days live and I'm just like well I'm just going to force that upon me now and I wanna do everything like that asteroid was gonna hit. We knew we had a year left on this world. What would you do? And you know this is the thought process that. So many of us think about occasionally when you go on like a corporate retreat or you watch them fucking movie or documentary, it's like, what would you do if you're one hundred days left to live like well, fuck it. I'm literally in that mode and it's not hyperbole going to. I don't even know what the next day is. So I'm gonNA live every day like it's my last day because up to that point if you knew me, I was a wallflower incredibly passive with moments of anger and I think that comes out but that anger was always passive that was always kept under wraps. And I was just going to be like my full uncontrolled it. And I was like fuck fucking. The whole thing was like Yolo militias do it. And I literally did it and it's not a surprise. It's like I'm not joking I was kinda heavily influenced by lot what I read in college and such. But that movie office space that came out in one, thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, eight, or nine, hundred, ninety, nine was like a huge fucking thing for me I was like. I'm just GONNA do like fuck it i. don't give a fucking shit about anything anymore. It's crazy and you live that way for years. Yeah. To the point where like the stories seem so reckless that was like there's no way he's exaggerating. So how'd you how'd you bounce that? Then I mean because this book at the end of the day was still a advice book in a lot of ways there's literally a section at the end. Inspired by Jerry Saltz called thirty three rules for becoming a chef and Dave I think you've. Come around and why isn't up a little bit about that sort of gopher broke you'll approach in its limitations, but you also attributed to your success. What do you say to a young chef? You say, like do the way I did go all out burn everything to the ground like what what do you say to them? With this podcast show and Simmons and we talked about it and I've done it with show before like one again, another non sequitur. But one reason why show became really close is. We never found that we both love this moment in the movie Gattaca. where it's you know how did you swim across? How did you make it so far in your life? This character wasn't supposed to and he's like I never saved anything for the swim back. and. That's how I live my life. You know it was a one way ticket everything was the one way ticket. and. The. Hardest part for me is and this is hard when people hear this like. On really special anything. I was a terrible student. Yes. I was good at some sports but not good enough to actually make it. So it's not once you compare yourself to the benchmarks things like. I'm not really not good at anything even cooking I wasn't that good at anything. and. I was told I was dumb slow all these things entire fucking life not only just my parents my coaches from my chefs you suck you're stupid. That was pretty much what was told to me. So if you're told that your entire life that you suck in, you're stupid and you're slow. Why would anyone think you're talented? Why would I think I'm talented. So the reason why I think I've been hard on myself and why I really try to invest myself and people that are around me as if a person like me can be as lucky and sometimes I joked I've been hit by I'm the kind of person that's been hit by lightning five six times you know that kind of a nominally statistically. And I look at all these people that I work with. Can Get here with a lot of luck. Than anyone else can. Because everyone else in my opinion is way more talented than me. The only thing that I have is this undeniable urge to fucking grinded out you may be faster like. The parable, the the story of the Tortoise and the Hare is me I'm the fucking tortoise man. You didn't shut up about the tortoises. because. It's true. It's like I thought about that. So much I, internalize it so much because I don't know if that's skillset. You know it's just like that's the worst kind of skill. Wait you just don't know how to fucking. Stop. I can't believe you made gave get the Tortoise Tattoo in the middle of. fucked up that is that. That's hard to reckon with and you live that life and. That kind of philosophy that I've exposed of just grind it out. Expect the worst hope for the best work work work. Can Be wildly effective. For the short term. But the thing that is still problematic even Momofuku today and it's all I think part of my DNA unfortunately is that when good things happen? You don't appreciate it. and. You don't know how to respond to that, and you don't know how to be in the moment to be thoughtful to be caring. It's like. Okay. That's a nice thing. Doesn't matter. I have to continue to grind it out. Let's go. Let's go. Let's go. And part of saving something for the swim back is like be careful of how much you burn. Right like. The glory of getting to the mountaintop and all the books and all the shit that's out there in the world today is about getting to the fucking mountain. The metaphorical mountaintop how to train what kind of fucking dangerous to look out for when you climb this fucking mountain. There no books about getting back down. and. So this became the central image of the book this mountaintop this Sisyphean task he's at a certain point you realized there's no top of the mountain. Right now it never stops never stops. And this is this is a really complicated thing 'cause I think. Part of life is continuing to grind and a lot of ways and not not giving up, and that's the central message of this book as well. But you're also advocating for this balance that trying to push the top of the mountain without others is pointless. We'll be right back after word. From our sponsors. Today's episode of the Dave Chang Show is brought to you by Ziprecruiter. 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That's Oh EXO dot com backslash one hyphen percent I love their products and now I even love them more because of what they're trying to do for the planet. Go, support them. That's just awesome what they've decided to do. Here's here's a question. Since we're recording this podcast with with a good number of mobile. Fukuda staff on the line with us. Few people get to have this kind of a look inside of their bosses head frankly. I have. Not me personally I worked for Dave eggers Dave Chang. So I, always seem to get a look inside if my fought sets in this way, but is that Does that strike you as a positive thing or are you nervous about sort of like everyone who works with you kind of seeing this side of knowing kind of like you know our leader wrestles with a lot of Shit. I'm not that worried about it because I think those that are close to me or as that work with know that this is just who I am. I've never really shied away from at certain point. I don't know when it was just like again like fuck it and I think that happened pretty early on I was like well, fuck found dead who gives a fucking Shit I. Don't who cares you know like that's what I have to remind myself like who cares do you think I'm that important that people are going to care about whatever the fuck I say or however I act And again, this goes back to what I hope to be in. This goes back to I used to work and sometimes still work. You overload yourself with so much work that you don't have time to come up with fucking alternate facts. To relation to anyone else like the best way to describe it as. ME. I'll buy multiple units at the same fucking item of clothing. Probably five or five twenty of the same fucking thing and keep that in rotation. So never have to think about it. I'll have enough variety. So people know that I'm not wearing the same. But I. If you look in my closet I maybe like sixty fucking Navy Blue T. shirts. And like years before it'd be all baseball t shirts whatever the fuck. But in the same vein, that's where transparency came with me I was just too busy to be like. I don't have time to sort of terror or nuanced about how I feel about something. This is the way it is right now because I'm too busy and it wasn't it wasn't altruistic. sheerly selfish to save fucking time That's how it all started because like I. It can be too much authenticity for people for sure We'll now everybody knows your Charlie Brown fashion methodology just all the same shirt but this one I'm wearing right now I have like fifteen. Just so our listeners. He's wearing a yellow shirt with a black swan stripe across it. Gave are you are you nervous about anything as far as when this memoir comes out in two weeks a week and a half? What makes you nervous? I'm usually very nervous about anything that does not involve I've involved in a very anxious person Honestly the fact that I got to work with you guys, it gives me a certain rare confidence because you're probes and also I can't be too scared because. It's Dave Chang story you know and I have to remind myself of that like you know he's going to have to answer for everything here. I WanNa talk about another thing that happens very near the end of this process and maybe gave you can you can walk us through how it happened but this book was originally slated to be published in May. In March? Obviously, the world changed dramatically no part of which more. So than the restaurant world. Fortunately, and in some ways for us, the book had not gone to the printer even though we had been told seven or eight times before that deadline was final. We had the chance to adjust the book given. Corona virus. But can you tell everybody the this sort of logic in story of of how we decided to approach that? I think that's a good one for Dave 'cause. I was open to changing up some things but I think table to it was like, no, we have to leave as even if things might seem completely irrelevant now although. I don't think they are but. It was important that we left like ninety nine point nine percent of the same and then I didn't want us to like Cherry pick the moment and I wanted to it's very similar to when we edited ugly delicious their moments where I would say again most people like for sure would've edited out moments they look like a total jackass. And I wanted to leave him in. And I felt the same way where I didn't want to have the time where it almost like okay. If the books out where we said that's the clock and we have to hold ourselves accountable to that. And I didn't want to change anything and that's just the way it was. The only thing we did was we added an addendum about the future of the business and where it may be and the irony of how. Transient. Our businesses and and the challenges that we face and I hope that Momofuku makes it and that's the craziest thing is who knows what's going to happen with any of our businesses, the restaurant industry large, and that could be a whole another chapter and I was like you know we just at some point you gotTa stop and you put it out there and that's what we decided to When the lockdown I went into place and coronavirus exploded You know I. I had some fears of my first thought was really like. Shit are we going to have to rewrite this book and I think probably been like the longest I've gone without reading the book in the last? Eighteen months it probably been two weeks. You could perform it live. Yeah. So we all went back and reread it and. Like I said a testament to the book is how how relevant still was because it's not it's not that book you set out to write originally it's not just like a primer for starting a restaurant. It's not just advice for people in the restaurant world. I it became something else about your your larger struggles I think which still resonated. And hopefully, the lessons when it comes to making it in this business will be as relevant as before. I. Hope So. and. It definitely change obviously my father passed and I think that was a giant. A monumental shift in seeing different perspectives. Of My tunnel vision. And As clear as day. Like in the grieving process. That's what fucking crush me and. I've been through Helen back the past few months as we all have. But on my own mental journey, it's been hard on new medication right like. I have avoided being on an lithium because for whatever reason that's been like the heart, the most hardcore like the LAS stage with before like electrotherapy. And it got so bleak for me that I had a try a whole bunch of shit and that's one of them and I think it's been working really well on a low dosage of it. Part of that was the trauma of what's happened in this business, which is incredibly difficult. And the heart visions that we've had to make, and I hope that we can look back on it and know that we we did the best we could and I believe in our leadership of Marguerite Elizabeth in the whole team. I really feel we have best in class leadership team and I wish everything was going to work for everybody and that's our goal and that's been the hardest part about all this but that's been hard. The hardest part than to was on top of it besides being isolated quarantine, fear trauma, all these things. was I spent my really just understanding this which tied in with the book I spent my entire life trying to run away from my dad and not to be my dad and talk about perspectives. This. Was fucking floored me. There are certain individuals in my life that I've worked with in my own family namely, one of my older brothers to feel really bad about and I'm trying to reconcile. I've treated people exactly like my dad treated me. And to see that it's like, how could you miss that? You motherfucker Dave and I beat the I mean mentally I just sell flagellated myself. I was so mad I was so embarrassed I didn't see these patterns before I'm like, how could you miss it? It's like when you watch a really bad murder mystery thriller thing and you're like, of course, that's going to happen and I'm so mad at myself like am I the only person that didn't know. Bruce, Willis is a fucking ghost. Only. fucking. Jackass that five times to see that he's fucking dead. How dense am I? What does that say about me? Why did I act upon this earlier and? It was really hard was really fucking hard because I know the feelings I have about my dad and I'm not trying to rationalize it either but I'm like man. I know why people would feel the same way about me and that's hard and my dad didn't try to really rectify his relationship with me till honestly the past twenty, four months of his life and I was very cold to that idea So that's been hard. That's probably been. The hardest thing is talk about Freudian Shit. I man, you Never WanNa be like your parents, but you realize so much of who you are is exactly even when we went to the conversation with Teddy Zee. When he talks about being Asian American in the piece of relationships you have with our parents. She spent his life not wanting to be a dad and somehow with his first marriage in the first kids from his first marriage he wanted to be exactly like that. It didn't matter that she wasn't like his dad. She wound up the end result having the same result of the parenting that his dad's and that just fucking crushed me. And it still crushes when I think about it so. I don't know how how articulate that and I think that given time. I'll be able to understand that a little bit more. Also, at the beginning, you were resistant to talk about it's remember you saying something along the lines of you know the facts and figures with my childhood and my upbringing don't explain me it's irrelevant and it would be misleading to elaborate on it in any way to give. The real estate. And that home. That ends of animating the book in a Lotta ways in a way that we did not plan but life turned out a certain way for you where you had to had to take a look at things. I mean. That's I think what I've learned to Gabe and Chris has learned to and those in Momofuku that I've been talking to on a constant basis. And in some ways, the summarizes so much of. The negatives of Momofuku to is an this constant theme of what we've been talking about. Is I only find validation through pain. And hurt. And the past six months with the passing data's caused me to realize that. I'm a product of abuse. And that's hard to say. And hard to admit. But I've conditioned myself that the only thing that I know is true ultimately. Is, hurt. And that's we talked about having dysregulation of emotion all these things and it's like. I don't want to be that way. The only thing that hasn't failed me. Is Feeling. Pain. And that's fucked up man and makes me feel sad just saying that and I don't want to be. They don't want that to be the case. I've seen it up close. And I've seen how it can become this patch waiting cycle for you when when you're hurt, you just continue to sort of press on your bruises and press on your wounds to keep feeling it. Dave I don't know if you. I've actually really talked about this weather on this show or in private but like. I know how long it took for you to begin that process with your dad sort of. Trying to understand him or understand what each other or reconcile a little bit and and as somebody who shares your kind of like lifelong resistance to talking things out with our family. Do you feel like? You had completed that process with your father when he passed did you feel no I'm still in that process and I'm still trying to connect the dots and the more I connect the dots the more I see how `bout I smell and One of my biggest gripes about my dad was. He was a fucking shit dash this be honest and. He justified his actions by trying to provide financially. Gene, I think honestly, maybe less than two times, she's ever said the word love right emotions all those father relationships that I feel like most people have even in the Asian American I definitely never had. and. Certainly, people had it worse but your own pain in your own traumas is the maximum that is relate to you and you can't really compare it to yourself and I don't think that's good and culture that we always try to compare like. Pain. and. I think about all that a sacrifice and all that he did and I try to rationalize and try to understand his upbringing coming from he's a war refugee for fucks sake like. The only thing that he knew should be true. The only thing that he could get his wagon to was money. And that's what he dedicated his life to provide for his kids. And when I think about some of the earlier moments of Momofuku, it's my whole goal was to provide health care for everybody. My whole goal was to provide benefits to do all these things. And then I think about all that was sacrificed to get to that goal. I'm like does it outweigh? You know how we got here. And I have a hard time answering that question. But I see a lot of similarities with my dad in ways that I never really wanted to see. was writing this memoir helpful to you in this journey. Yes and no I think it makes me hate and makes me hate myself. Way More than I thought I could have. And I mean that I hate myself in ways that I never thought that I could have hated myself found new ways to eight year old new ways to hit myself haw because. It really hurts it hurts to know that I could have been better in so many fucking ways and In other ways I hope this chapter in my life where it makes me learn how I can move forward and. Part of that is again, that book is divided into two chapters in some ways even though it's not completely detailed and accurate I'd say it's like seventy percent there. It's a little bit more linear chronology and how I can remember things because I spent so much time working on it. The first night with my doctor yeah. The second part is jumbled because I'm still and it doesn't mean the first part won't change. Because, even still like the past six months has caused me to reevaluate my father in ways that I never thought that I could have, and if we're at the book wrote the book today, who'd be very different. So I think about. How that's happened, what needs to change and I just I want to make sure that I can move forward and I think that's the positive is like It's causing me to reflect upon things that have happened both recently and. Very long time ago and to mind and constantly mine I hope that the work that goes into it. I learn how to forgive myself. I learned to be a better person I learned to be a better. Manager of people I learn that I'm I'm an addict. I'm an addict. You know it's for longtime I refused to admit that I'm an addict and a variety of ways. Whether it's gambling whether it's drinking whether it's drugs whether it's work whether it's adrenaline whatever like you name it I I have that I'm GONNA an attic to rage. And a lot of that could be nature versus nurture doesn't fucking matter I have the responsibility. I have ownership to decide whether I want to continue to be that person or not. And I hold myself accountable in ways that make it very hard because it means that I will always fail. And I have to accept that failure moving forward I have to learn to forgive that I will fail. And that's not something I'm ever going to maybe get but I'm closer to understanding that because of the book, right? If that makes any sense. What I just said hardly mix it look like a rosy outlook. But I'm in this process guys and it feels like I'm still in the fucking basement climbing out but that's all I. can say you know about the book being positive. Yeah. I understand that and I understand how I mean having seen it firsthand how are you for you to get through parts of it and I can understand why a b. m. about the whole thing I will say? That I am excited. For for this book to come out I'm excited for people to see it says, this is gonNA sound so hokey but. Not just working on it with you to reading this book was transformative for me. I got a lot out of this book. You know not just because I think it's it's fairly obvious lit you and I have a lot of personality traits and Common Chang but pure whole grinding out philosophy extends to the way you like ground out this understanding of the world and I have benefited greatly from it and I've also benefited greatly like our personal relationship has has benefited greatly from me understanding your perspective better and where you come from. So I'm eager for people in the world. To know you better in that way. I realized earlier I asked if what you're anxious about what you're nervous about this book and I should have asked the flip side, which is, are there things that you're excited about on your parts for people to see things that like? Even. Just on the story level. I mean if I have to talk about ranking and ranking it, but like the buckets where I hope the positive comes out is one. And there's no order of preference. One is being able to talk about what it means to be Asian American in this country and That's a role that I've for a long time and that sort of that I've had of not fitting in and realizing that Momofuku. Working or or not so much of it, and what we do has been expression of what it means to be Asian American and to fight against so many. Stupid cultural truths. Right and that's something I'm proud about and I think that we've changed the conversation about that and I think there's a lot of nuance and stories that people may not realize about what we've done and I can see that as an objective fact. So that's important I think the most important message about that is. I I'm not speaking on behalf of anyone I'm just be going to be me because you should never be able to say that being Asian in America is any one thing we're not a monoculture and you can be the fuck you WANNA be. And that's a very powerful message and I will stand by that to the fucking die as don't let anybody fucking. Tell you otherwise. And I'm living proof of that and you may not. Make. Friends. In certain places you may offend certain people you may rub people the wrong way but I dot individualized spirit is something I will always believe in in a Lotta ways that saved my life more than it made it worse to learning to be me right for all my flaws. Secondly, I think it's about talking about the stupidity of our business. And we professionalize the culinary industry. and. I always say to you guys sometimes it's like, what would the world look like if we professionalize coal mining? Or Diamond fucking digging gold? Mine. And in some ways, that's exactly what happened. And we're long overdue for changes in how we perceive the world. And how we work with people. and. I don't know if it's possible but we need to start having these conversations because whether it's equality whether it's Opportunities whether it's entire system of how it's based I. Argue it's like is good food worth. For the sacrifices that need to come into play and I really Russell. Without environmental fucking everything to me is on the table about what we need to do to reimagined world where we work in this industry that is equitable for not just you know the diners but for the employees, the farmers, the whole thing where it's not just talk and I have to hold myself accountable because sometimes I talk about it too much. Am I being hypocritic by just talking about I WANNA make sure it's actionable. So that's something I wrestle with and I think we can look back on about the good and the bad and the stupidity it's really the stupidity of the fucking business. And that's the thing. It is such a stupid business yet I can't imagine doing anything else because it's so fucking amazing when it works and it works it's not about working in the traditional sense of something working it works in the face when something works in the face of all obstacles when it works when you finally see that one day, one service where everything worked everything went according to plan yet ninety nine percent of all the other services were total shit. Would you remember about that one time when it worked, we're all addicts. We're all chasing after that high in this business. and. I think that's fucking stupid. I think it's so beyond stupid and I would rather find a different way. We average it all out where it's not so dumb. And again, just to remind yourselves how stupid is. We still haven't adopted the metric system. Okay you know why? Because of all the cultural fucking truce we've inherited. Thirdly, it's addressing the mental health issues. and. I think part wise I decided to take this book on a little bit more seriously was after Tony died. and. That, hit me like a ton of bricks hit a lot of people and I realized that I had never once asked Tony how he was doing may never once asked Tony. Why She might be feeling a certain way even though I knew that he might be feeling a certain way. I never once did because I wanted to perpetuate this myth of this guy being a fucking superstar Chiro this Paul Bunyan like person I didn't want him to ruin my understanding of who he was and. And I. Regret it. And I also know that there are a lot of people that are coming to me because by being honest about my own fucking craziness literal craziness. I have seen the positive benefits of directing people to get help. That's not something I forget like I I have learned over the years that true happiness for me is to be in service of others, and that's when good things happen in my life when I fucking ruin my life, it's in the service of me. And if I can just help out by being honest and not prescriptive about my own issues in my own struggles, and if that can cause the world a little bit less heartache because someone ended their life that's fine and I wanted to be honest about it I still have suicidal fucking ideation. It's it's I'm not trying to normalize it, but I'm also trying to normalize it. By talking about it and. You know when I think about it that way it's like okay these are the things that I'm okay with people talking about. As Positives Let's take another quick break to hear from our sponsors. Today show is brought to you by masterclass with masterclass you can learn from the world's best minds anytime anywhere and at your own pace. You can learn how to communicate from hostage negotiator from like the world class hostage negotiator that the FBI US Chris Voss. One of my favorites that I've gone back to time and time again on management and how to be a better leader effective leader Bob, Iger, former CEO, and chairman of Disney. Spike Lee one of my all time favorite directors teaching you about independent film making. My current obsession. And I don't know. Took me. So long to watch his course is I. I've been saving it for a while and honestly this is what I love about masterclass because there's over eighty five classes from a range of world class instructors. That thing you've always wanted to do is closer than you think in the reality is I'm not necessarily poker player but why masterclasses so good for me as I love having range I, love learning about other fields and professions because I do find that there might be disciplined that are similar to my field. Goal back to Phil Ivey. The reason why I love it is. I get into his mindset of why and how he thinks about poker and it's not just about poker I. Think it teaches me how to think how to go through situations under duress and I don't know about you guys. But I view this as entertainment I love learning. This is very fun. Things have broken down into individual video lessons usually around ten minutes long. And they're accessible on your phone web or smart TV. It's very thoughtful. How well organized it is how it introduces you to learning. There's discussions there's downloadable materials to assist you as you learn these new disciplines. Especially on the cookie ears great lessons and recipes you can explore at your own pace. Literally they have things broken down and I? Can I know from the cooking perspective? So If, it's that comprehensive it's going to be that comprehensive for every discipline. An annual membership is just one hundred, eighty US dollars ear I highly recommend you check it out get unlimited access to every masterclass, and as a day Changshu Listener, you get fifteen percent off an annual membership. Go to masterclass dot com slash. Chang. That's masterclass. Dot Com Slash Chang for fifteen percent off mask masterclass. Go check it out masterclass dot, com slash Chang. Gabe. What are you excited about? The only thing I'd add and it may be hard for people listening to this to believe me. It's also pretty funny I think. Like you know we've sort of built a case against that for the past hour. Pretty Damn. Funny. I think the way that Dave tells these stories in the book but can be tragic and pretty sad are pretty hilarious. For People here the some of the. Story the Nishi story even though Nishi ultimately ended up culminating like one of the hardest periods of Dave's life just sort of the manic creativity of coming up with of Nishi as a restaurant in in all of the cares if you want to know again like a real crazy person. Inside the mind I mean I was out of my fucking mind then like I was so manic man. Man I think about my coli faulk. I was so out of my mind. I mean. It's crazy that I can just go about in the world being fucking deranged lunatic literally. Having such a crazy imbalance where I'm like, Oh my God. Put this guy in an institution that's what should have happened. Right. Okay. Well, I was I was GONNA start asking. We've only got a few questions here. Well, I David gave do you have any sort of closing thoughts about about this book as as it sort of repairs this pre-opening diary so we're on the we're on the verge of publication here. Are there other things that you're thinking about as we go into this? One thing that I'll be interested to see is what people focused on when they read it. When they serve they write about if the review it are the themes that they pick up because I think that they're number of ways you could write that at least. That's what I've picked up from sort of informal feedback. That what is this book about and I think Not, everyone will have the same answer. Well, we sort of know. At one point we had a footnote in this book that was just like if you're writing an article about this book for eater. Please just turn to page ninety, one, fifty and one, forty seven. There's where your quotes are. But Chang what do you think as as sort of this book after eight years plus of writing and getting ready? Any sort of parting thoughts as as it is about to go out in the world. The one thing I wish was more clear to people is everybody that came through. Particularly those first years. I, mean that. I don't know if I'm here. Or Moma foucus here without. Every single person that came through those doors and I'm really beyond grateful. And I wanted a name every single person I wanted to name every fucking story and some of those people are still with us. and. All, I WANNA do. Put. In the best positive light possible that came through those doors and whether you realize it or not. You are instrumental and if I didn't say before I haven't said it enough. Shame on me. Thank you. Thank you to everyone that's ever worked with us. I wish we were always better than we were and I'm beyond grateful and that's the one thing I'm focusing on I. Hope that people understand how grateful? I am for everybody that's participated in dealt with over the years. Well let's let's hear from a few people that you're talking about. So Riley from Momofuku Toronto has a couple of questions here first of all the pre-opening experiences you've been through. Dave are there any that you wish you could go back in time and do something completely different concept or idea? Which ones are and why? Everyone. Every one I mean. Line restaurant Oh. My God. Like are there any just change the concept entirely? Yeah. I mean listen when I love sports and sometimes you watch Aaron Rodgers or Lebron James or Lamar Jackson talking about plays that have or does Shawn Watson like I. Literally Thinking About Moments in time where they've talked about plays or games, and they can recognize a recall like legitimately like five minutes of what the fuck just happened. Ten fifteen years ago sometimes even in high school. I roommate about these a lot. I mean a lot every restaurant opening sometimes I think about it all the way to the inception of idea to like the friends family. And I'm constantly mining and it's like thinking about bad play I never think about the good place. And whether it's Toronto I think about being so stupid about not having coat racks. I. Think about how impossible it was about opening three restaurants in three weeks and like just not knowing how to do it and how hard it was. Australia I think about a lot because I. Not only is it just the way it was I think about dishes all the time. But by thinking about that, he can culminate and things that get better right and. Riley I'm happy to have that conversation offline because. I'm now flooded with just too much information about to share because I do think about it all the time, I. I literally am like Focke sometimes out of the blue like God. Dammit why did you choose that fucking plate where you dumb ass like there's probably no clear example of what you're talking about chain than. Sombor I mean I think about all of. which you have started with burritos probably not but burritos are what got you to that moment of we've got a do or die well, I. Think about that and I'm like should have just done marketing a little bit differently maybe if I change the design maybe if I didn't use aluminum foil, maybe if I had this or that maybe it was the decision to have fucking a cola fridge stocked with Dr Pepper and Diet doctor pepper like what kind of fucking dumb as well I was I thinking. I think about that all lot like canned coffee like what? But these I mean you know. I know you're you're beating yourself about some of those issues but like that's how. That's still the philosophy that's getting you guys forward. Yeah. No dumb is right. Improvement when you think about Domo or Cowie I do. Like There have been things I. Guess We. I don't know. You guys. This is too hard of a question because it's all consuming food. All right. Well as other question pertains to that, and we'll be equally difficult I'm just kidding, Riley You're not the only one who gets tunnel vision I think all people with passion for their craft experience this how have you learned to overcome path dependency AKA tunnel vision in the moment are you able to change that over time? Well, Riley. One of the things that I've been able to do is have the. Courage. But find the triggers in my life. where. I let people know ahead of time. It's almost like that movie memento that I have to leave trails of breadcrumbs or even Tattoo something on me to remind Myself Hey You're acting this way. So. That's the one thing and besides like doing behavioral therapy. Mental exercises to remind myself and to better ourself in the way I describe a lot of this is is vision again this is how I how I, internalize it is. I can choose to be prepared like if I'm going on a trip, I should pack my binoculars right? Like like don't be stupid if I if I I can choose to have bad vision or not anyone that chooses to have bad vision, they're fucking idiots why would you do that? In some ways I can extrapolate that to moments where I can plot out on hope that I'm better at where I want people to hold me accountable and say, Hey, hey jackass. And the person that does that the most right now is grace. A Lot. And it's not easy. But like. It happens a lot where I'm telling people. If they can. Pull me aside or just say like. Snapped me out of my my fucking distorted reality. And it doesn't mean that I listened right away. But I'm getting there. I always think it was weird that you brought binoculars on every trip that you went on but now I understand why? Noel has as a question and. Well last question first, are there any stories that didn't make the cut, but maybe should have in this book and? I'm. Thinking about there is like a game I want you to tell it but I think the funny thing is. When we were working on this book like book tour became like a Codeword for us where it was like save that one for the book tour, like there was going to be this there's this tour where Dave was going to be in these intimate settings where we'd be like, Hey, everybody turn off your phones like I'll tell you a crazy story that didn't make it, and now I'm trying to rack my brain for what all those those stories were I. don't remember any of them but I know there's a lot. Gave what did you have? I don't know if you're up for it, but I think illustrates. How? No one would have picked you as sort of like would would've thought you were destined for greatness and you're a couple of your early run-ins with a certain chef oh yeah. There's a whole series on my run, INS with with Thomas Keller of the years that we didn't put in the book and they're the best. Yeah. They're really good. Really good. I'll just leave it at that but. The first time I ever met I'll tell one Thomas Keller Story I. The first time ever met Thomas Keller NBA saying. She was fucking the God was dumb man in America. French laundry is opening up per se I'm working for Tom One reason why I worked for Tom Click Yo is he was a Sushi forum at Raquel. Close could get Thomas Keller and around that time Corey lease now be left New York to work for Thomas and all these things and when I was working for Thomas Craft like a year in we that he's coming back to per se he's got to open a restaurant at the Time Warner. Center. And I'm on entre TA station and it's like a Friday or Saturday night. And before service starts after you rolled Yoki like the chefs and the chef would always like Marco they'd leave maybe have a cigarette maybe like chill out because the one time they could like relax because you know service starts five thirty it's going to be slow and they come back in around like six o'clock and get into the groove. So inevitably because I was next to the phone, if the phone rang, my back is to it and I'm also having to expedite to the first thirty minutes service. So you're expediting trying to cook and like whenever the phone ring it's just like, God. Damn it you know like I can't. I can barely cook I can't cooking and service and the phone kept on ringing and ringing and ringing. Think Damon wise are actors like would you just answer the fucking phone Chang I'm like? Like It's literally like maybe five steps behind me on the metal wall behind pick it up and I'm like what the fuck do you want? That's how I ended Mike. And I answer like that. All here was. Can you count to ten and brief please I'm like what the Fuck I'm in the fucking service. I gotta I gotTa do all the ship going there my head this calm voice on the other end. Very calm. Counter attend because that's no way to talk to anybody. And I'm like Oh. No. No No. I have a feeling about I know who it is, and then I know who the fuck it is. When he's like? Count to ten I had to count ten one to. Like like carrots birding I got like Polenta fucking bubbling over and I like tickets are going over and I got fucking count to ten. After that's done, can I talk to Jonathan please own now? There's only. There's only one person. Nobody Calls Jonathan Benno Jonathan J. B. or Begnaud. Oh No. This is this is Thomas. Keller. 'cause. They WanNa talk about planning to open up for Sake Benoa. Just put in his notice. You're like three months over anyway. I'm like, Oh no god I'm talking to God I just told him fuck. You her. And I'm like, no. And I'm like one second. Sir Let me. And then before the phone on new or pause he goes, can I ask calling and I should have just live I don't know why I told them the truth. My Name. Is David. I certainly got an earful after service because he's like you curse Thomas Keller. On. Now, that was the first align long line of stories of Thomas Keller A. Another question here is. Knowing, all that you know. How would you really feel if grownup Hugo tells you, he wants to go into the hospitality industry. I thought about this lot and I'll tell you guys this. If. You go has to enter the profession in the environment that we have today I will not be excited. I hope by the time, she goes old enough to make decisions on his own. That he can enter a profession that has respectability and the benefits of working at a high flying tech company, then I would be like no problem between now and then there's a lot of work that to happen. So I don't feel not necessarily disappointed. But. If it's an industry that he can live and provide and to have work life balance and all these things that seemed like pipedreams, then I'll be like. Amazing That's the challenge right because like you WANNA protect your your own family members from entering the same sort of painful thing that you did. But by that same token so many people you also love are still in it are in it you know and that's why you gotta fix this for them as well. Right and that's The hardest part is. To elaborate on that is when I told my dad I wanted into the profession he knew how hard it was and I think it broke his heart. You know he's like he worked his life to make sure that I would never enter the. Culinary. Arts. and. I didn't understand it at the time, but it's so fucking hard. and. Again. If that's what he wants to do, then I will be supportive. And again, I I've learned that I have to be the person that I'm not supposed to be, and that's ultimately my goal and my initial reaction of course would be she go I don't think that's a really good idea. And and I have to learn to not be me, and that seems to be like George Costanza. Seinfeld thing is everything I'm supposed to do is not what I'm supposed to actually do. So I probably tell you like however I can support you in this moment if things didn't change. If you had to write. Another memoir. About the next fifteen years at Momofuku end of your career. What would you hope that story would read like? Well. First let's hope we make fifteen years and we have to make it through this pandemic. I. Hope it's not my story to tell. I've always said if if our restaurant turns out selling postcards or whatever doesn't fucking matter. Great as long as we can sort of, do what we need to do and be good. That's all that matters and if people want to pivot and they want to change if of could just becomes a consumer packaged goods business. Great. I think that story about the next fifteen years should be how I got out of the way. So momofuku could be so much better. Okay. Well, that's all of our questions Gabe, what do you? What do you got going on? What are you? What are you working on next and also are you afraid of all of the chefs who are now going to come and ask you to help them write their memoirs after they see this one? No idea what's going to happen I'm just trying to take one day at a time but Tune stuff writing for different people. I think I'M GONNA. Write a book might a couple of might take a while but a write about my family in Cuba and stuff like that but that's going to be an adventure. So we'll see but otherwise I helped some chefs with their writing and do stuff like that. And just be grateful to be alive. He's GonNa. TRY TO REENACT THE BAY of Pigs. People can't see the beard on I'M GONNA get. Your you're angling for a casting in the motorcycle diarrhea sir. Here you're. You're vibe. But I would you know it was a great privilege to be able to work with people of your caliber and I? You know it's it's a rare treat. Gabe. I'm thankful for putting up with me and putting all the work you did to make this book. What I hope that people enjoy a great deal. Should be thanking you and I will be thanking you for a very long time. That's it. Guys Hopefully that was fun engaging. You learn a little bit about the. The work the actual many years that wouldn't to make in this book I'm wildly uncomfortable talking about it yet it may be great if it was a supported by all of you. Thank you so much. And thank you to everyone momofuku that participated in this again, preorder eat a peach online and your bookstores audiobooks you name it it's all there. I will stop talking about now. All right give us five stars. However, you rate this podcast apple. Again, if you give us five stars on the eighteenth page, we will answer your question. We get to our next Dave at major media DOT COM. We'll do a mailbag ask Dave, major media, DOT COM coupon sending them in very much appreciate. All of your questions and however you support this podcast. However you listen to it gives us good writing would mean a lot. To our big boss Bill Simmons. Thank you guys. Stay safe. Please vote.

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Working Out from Home with David Higgins

Staying In with Emily & Kumail

40:45 min | 8 months ago

Working Out from Home with David Higgins

"Bonet Bonus Episode Janney Gordon and this is bonus. I'm trying to think of a staying in with Emily in commercials bonus. There's no I have. Nothing came up with was staying with them. Bonus added a little snake. Sound to bonus for every week. We're going to release a bonus episode. That's going to be different from the episodes. We normally do last week's episode. Was David Chang State at the restaurant in only doing David's cooking this one is David. Hey it's only doing David's so that one was about how to cook for yourself. These are going to be much more sort of practical tips interviews with people interviews with people who have expertise in different areas. And today we're talking to David Higgins. Who was my trainer for when I shot a movie called. Eternal Marvel marvel could call the journals. I got in very good shape trained with David for six months while we were shooting. The movie is a great trainer. Has Really really good attitude about exercise and why it's important so if exercising is something want to hear about something you. WanNa do during this time at home this is. This is a good this after you. And if you're a David and have something that you're an expert in Colorado only talking to Davis Bonus David saying we go now. We have a thing. Yeah in his what I like about David. Quite a bit is that he's there's no obviously. There's no shame because we're not going to work with anybody like that but there's also it's not about immediately okay. We've got all this time. Let's launch into changing your life. It's just about what you WANNA do right now. That will help you feel a little bit better and help you. Make some some use of your time and kind of make some slight changes. I think. Small changes are always better than massive ones. And he's very good at that right right. It's about starting in a way. Basically just gifts setting your goals and then slowly trying to work towards them another thing. I like about David. The first time I I went and visited you on set. He was like here. Take a walk with me and I was like. You're going to have some weird talk with me. And then he took me to get chicken wings. Chicken wing does the great thing about the evidence. Was I definitely shooting this movie? You will attest to this too. Obsessed with working out and dieting. Who and he really really pushed me and forced me on the weekends to take a break and to eat. Big meals outward you so while we were shooting in London. I chewed Monday to Friday the Friday night Saturday night you and I would like go to a restaurant and get a big meal and he really really pushed for that because I think the way. He approaches it. Mental Health and physical health. Really go together. He's like you're going to burn yourself out if you're going to be district the whole time and that was very grateful that forced me to do that anyway. Hope you enjoyed this episode. Next week we have David Letterman coming on to talk about facial hair that we do but hey give us a call. Hey Yeah Oh my God Hungary. We'll see you guys soon. Take Care Bye. Hey Hello David to work on what we call say. We're ready to go so we've already set our hello central missed it you listeners out there missed it. Yes David Higgins about how are you? How are you? You're in London? I'm in London. The weather's not too bad on the isolation this two weeks in now two weeks in. And how are you holding up on occasionally slowly losing the will but but the kids definitely helped with the hull just taking a mind of everything is about three young kids but also just the general routine of things in life you just gotTa keep on keeping on keep keep on daily living? That's what it's in the eighty s. You gotTa keep doing those. Adl's we go to the ideals gone totally agree with you. Yeah of course I do. Well we call them active daily living. Or what do you guys call of daily living? Yeah Basically Sega and let's let's just get an. How do you to know each other? We know each other because I was going to say it in the INTRO. But I'll say now so so we'll be finished by the way. Did you hear tunnels just just heard? I know we just heard. We are breaking the news on this joshing breaking news. My my my album marvel movie. Just push you guys. Black Widow Superhero trainer guy for marvel and now cheating on us with the new Batman. Fill the yellow going because our the dumbbells at our gym would only go up to a certain way and then we would be like. Let's go see they're not gonNA use them. I don't know if anyone ever said this. Push my other marvel movie. I don't know if anyone's ever said that generally good so we obviously trained for months and months and months together. It was really really awesome. What was great was how fun the workout. You know this. I would look forward to these workouts project. Apps man project. They called US three zero so we will be back in a minute. Emily Canary Islands. I was like I'm not going to bring a project tabs. If he brings about talk about so we were on this island where we would do nothing but shoot and it was like nothing to do and we basically spent almost every moment or not solution. Relation it will you guys are a precursor and `isolation. Y'All were you really really hot and we were. When I wasn't shooting we would just be in the gym workout. We did this thing called project ads. It was good by the way. What does you skip over? What is project adds? I'm assuming it means the project is getting APPs very good. I think you wild yes plotting how you were going to steal data. We were full of jewel. That well known. It's actually would have been funny if you had gotten it. It's not a place really full of jewels. Yes I did not I did. It's one of those places won't talk about it too much. But just so you know before the quarantine hit here. David I bought a set of adjustable dumbbells and an adjustable bench and I'm back to doing project APPS EVERY DAY. May to you know what me too. I'm not even joking with you. I loved it so much. I'm back on yet. I'm doing my instagram. Live by my i. I've got a book called the Hollywood Body Plan. And that is more of a restorative movement. Practice getting your body back to its neutral position learning how it should move again getting out of pain kind of thing. So it's a quite restorative practices for twenty one days every day. And I'm doing that. I'm an instant alive and anew good what's your what's your handle on. Insta- live David Higgins. London David what I really liked working working out with you was. It was really about alignment and And keep getting mobile and making sure that you were set up so that you wouldn't get injured. That was really the focus for the first few sessions like we did a lot of pilots and stuff but it really was about. I didn't realize sort of how crooked is an unbalanced. My body was until we started working together so that was good and honesty over six months of pretty intense working out in. Yeah Pretty Pretty I was. I was honestly thank because consistency with any of these kinds of things where they're just starting new routine. Assadi and you work out or you died or whatever it is just starting with consistency is everything and and being able to just back up every single day and continue. That's what's GonNa make the long term change right. That's that's what I like. My friends will start working Crawford really hard for four days and quit. It's like you're not going to work out this like party or life now. You're not like doing a diet. You're doing exercise regimen or something. This is like you have to do it in a way. That is sustainable. And it's fun like that's what I liked about the workouts that we did together to education as well right hope to. I taught you a little bit about how you should be working how you should be moving when it should be eating at turned around and ben very much every step of the way telling me every single thing he's learned. I've become a real. No it all come about everything except exercising. I guess what I connected them all so David I wanted to. We wanted to talk to you about a lot of people have been asking us. How do you a lot of people don't have access to the gym now? How can have more time on their hands to work out that they have more time to work out and for me? It's been like really good for my sanity and anxiety to like really work out so Do you have any advice for people who who can't access a gym? Yes well first of all. There's absolutely so much content out there at the moment Old Free that is getting streamed out there. So you've gotta find something that you're GonNa like that sort of does it fee you. First of all said of the load of information out there And you can do a hell of a lot. We did body weight and very few little bits and pieces around around the house as well. So that's but you can be versatile but take a few steps back before that you really have to set yourself up into a place of okay. So I've got. I'm not on the. I'm not commuting to work every day so I'm quite a few more hours every day going to work instead of going to work now and also on top of that you'll office at home has to be relatively economically correct. Otherwise you'RE GONNA probably lose your mind anybody at the same time so setting up you'll office. Space is really really important within your own home and therefore keeping that space almost Just full work is really really important for your mental wellbeing but going in and and if I may say very quickly that is something we've talked about on this podcast because it's that is so important to me that your workspace needs to be separate from your living space also true. I couldn't I was like I kept having lower back problems from sitting and writing all day and I kept. I was like looking into these like incredibly expensive. Chair's office chairs trying to figure out what all it took for me was and I don't know the proper term from before it's a disc that is like let me circle disc that sits on the seat of my chair. It has elements sample right upside down exercise ball away right. It's a half exercise that sits on my office chair fifteen dollars and I don't I haven't been to the chiropractor and months now So I completely agree with you that I think. If you're not sitting properly and don't have the proper like workspace you'll just your body will start collapsing down and be hurt. Yeah Yeah exactly and you just not going to be at your best right so so. I'm always find that when people have from an excise perspective or a diet effective who just generally change something about Yourself long-term for lonesome from long-term change and I'm not saying who in the summertime. I WANNA lose white and book gorgeous in a Bikini on now you will come out but I'm just saying for everybody else that you know you've got to have a bit more of a longer term vision so for example. I went through this like. I'm late thirties now. Three kids as I said before and now my long-term go is literally just so I love walking into the House and the kids run all over me jump all over me and I'm like the climbing frame full the period of time right that that sort of entrance and I loved being able to wrestling further Live with him. But I couldn't do that if I didn't keep myself fit relatively flexible mobile and I know a lot of my friends through a a bit older than me. Have a similar amount of time sort of lifestyle on their bodies are just Jack so for me. That's my life. I WanNa live longer happier healthier life pain-free That's my long term goal in strategy but Answer for somebody else may be getting out of pay or just trying to feel better about themselves as simple as that. If you find you'll find your reason why in a way you'll motivation then it's then you can kind of make some steps into changing your behaviors and actually making some lunch. Time change and moving into that. I always like especially now where community is so important. Tribe is so important in our lives that we lack so much in using these social Social distancing rules but also try to the digital world that we live in these days to sort of compensate for that. I get your friends involved in whatever it is you WANNA do. Hypothetically it might be my workout for twenty one days. Not You know what emily. I'm going to do this for twenty one days to regain my center in and move forward into whatever exercise program. I want to do. 'cause I WANNA get out of pain and I want to feel better about myself and I've got some time to do it and and so you go to get your friends involved because Bacon. Help out when you're having a down day like oh I just comparable that right now but equally. You will help them. When they're having a down day so they're not gonNA sabotage you in they come on and let's let's get this going. Let's let's do this together. Good Great. That's a good social thing too. You can have these classes. Because Emily would go to a dance class every week and now that's not happening so now you can sort of do that on zoom zoom or yeah exactly or whatever team or whatever us then and then and then rises downright. Whatever it is you want to achieve down. I am going to complete X. by win David Down. Tell a few people get them involved as well like I said and then like I said before consistency is everything. Just have your routine set your routine. We've been doing this. Have you guys been doing it in America for now? This isolation roughly. We're on our fourth week. Everybody else's on their third week. We sort of started a week before. Everybody's so we're on our fourth week. That's right yeah time we add longtime writes a long time so we are in this for effectively. The long haul and we are in this together. So let's do something positive together without time and I and I am honestly I think that with with all these kinds of things consistency is. You can control a lot more now or you can go totally off the rails by the way it's easiest to go around the corner in you. You're the closest thing you need to run to literally probably the toilets you know if you really made an effort and I think that you can you can change that because you you literally have time you have a little bit of spice a main space in diary spice not probably spice necessarily outside but using using that extra time for the positive from negative. I think that's what we're trying to establish and push out for the best zero volts old. I think that's great. Is there and I know that I personally you mention instagram live workouts? That you're doing them at David Higgins London There's also I've been doing to dance classes from at Angie Tanny. Who is one of my favorite dance teachers of all time sixties? Gogo dancing classes and has been doing them over live and Michelle. L'amour who was an old dance teachers might have well has been doing like workout slash dance classes on instagram. Live and it's kind of an amazing time because all these people that you normally would need to pay to see are doing things that are free and you do get a sense of community because the last class I did it was like like one hundred and thirty people were doing with me and I couldn't see any of them but I was a kind of a having a pretty bad day and it was kind of helped. Bring me out of the bad day that I was having so I think that sense of community if it's your own friends or if you can't get your own friends involved because they're all being lazy little heifers people online that you don't know communities community so do that's right. I mean it's an I I haven't ob- generally banning the film industry relatively exclusively now for the last eight or nine years on a on a really sort of kept under the radar quite quite significantly and this is the my first sort of step out into social really and it was quite quite going. What's this going to be like? I have no idea. Are they going to be three people who are going to watch me and do this thing with me as it were so you put yourself out there you just press record and see what happens kind of thing And you have thousands of people through like it's crazy. Yeah great for you. I hadn't thought about what it was like for the instructors at like the people leading it is it is so weird like. I'm not talking to myself. Cracking jokes laughing at jokes. That I'm saying you know I was on the phone. Rolla the other day and I'm like Oh my God I just love playing with myself. I'm like Oh God I can't believe what have you become? This is a whole different exerciser saying I will say this. You introduced me to using a foam roller all. The time and that is A. It's a very cheap piece of equipment and if you're working out that really really will help you avoid injuries. It's really painful though. They are painful. The more you use the more you use the difference like raw string There different levels that you can get are not soft one to ease you into it then you can go down to crazy trigger point ones the that you get involved in but there again. I've got a video off on that on my on my youtube channel. If you guys if anybody has any idea of have one and I was home role is and how they can self massage or self care not in a dirty way but in an exercise he kind of way you can you can look at it on on my youtube channel. That will hopefully give you some information on how to use it. What it does what it's for and how it will help you in the long run. Not just to correct your posture. But also to to to work out the kinks. The workout the The trigger points that you have in your body that a causing confident pain. Do you have any suggestions on very basic kind of a cheap inexpensive workout equipment that you would recommend people have on hand. I know everybody likes to do different things. But do you have any kind of general? I like thoughts on that. Yeah well funny enough. I joke but I use a interconnecting tiles. Those soft into connecting tiles that you see sometimes On the floor on my children's on the children and I use that as my flooring because the kids are older now said I necessarily need it and I. I've sort of piece together. My Outdoor Patio Gym that. I fill out. Hoven work now constantly. Feel like I'm sitting at a desk looking at a computer working with everybody still but But you use what you have around you. You'll be surprised how. How LITTLE YOU NATO? How much you actually have Use the tiles if you have some kids sort of tiles. Soft sort of matching. You don't necessarily need like an exercise Mat Ah Towel believe it or not goes a long way to support and also to use in Whatever it exercises again. Look at my instagram stuff at a chair. And I study chair to do. Some steph ops awesome dips Literally you don't need very much. She can do little push shops in planks and bits and pieces. But if you do have stuff what's Fa- me quite invaluable alerts little slide as if he wanted to use them so That you steph on one foot gays one way or the other goes the other way you can slide just on her or if you don't have that and you have a wooden floor Paper Towel paper towel dry hands with stuff or plastic bag. Put that on the one foot in that will slide nicely on a foot on a wooden floor. When you don't WanNa do reverse lunge or something that help I definitely feel like I would I will. I will bust my ass. If I do that. I will fall down on the soft kids flooring. You'll be put a helmet and you'll be good to get through this. I've used puzzle boxes instead of Yoga. Blacks which allegations of such a rip. I mean they're literally just like or you could waste of things. You could do a cushion from the couch is what I'm saying like that was my first thing like oh I guess. I don't need this stuff and I started doing that in London back because I was like. Oh I guess I should buy some yoga blocks because I need that from what I'm doing. I'm like oh I don't I could totally just use a pillow to sit on for this part of it if I need some extra support and I think that it's interesting too because I think people are like. Oh I can't do anything. I don't have this equipment and I think there is a chance that some people don't want to hear don't actually need doughnut much equipment. Come out your member when you launch you when you broke the Internet around. Christmastime we all looked and I was. GonNa say off camera. David was the one who was like. Do some more pushups dumbbell do some curls to exactly. Yeah that was after. If you remember that was. After a long day of shooting I remain by night. Do you remember. Oh yeah was because they were to remember there were two. We can't talk about the second. One Okay Yeah Oh God the second one. Yeah yeah the ones where you're completely naked and just surprised it's a surprise for you. I was loving the men in this voters are like what happened to my clothes. And you're like we know what happened to your. That was A. I remember when you broke up when I when that happened. What were you gonNA say? I was going to say that when you break the Internet and then I did that. Australia and the the raise the money for the Australian Bushfire appeal for those workouts. That we did the super he the super millions shake the most that you don't sold the most it was the super me. It was the bodywork at home body weight gender neutral and it just smashed all of the the the male. The female was paled into significance. It was everyone wanted the at home. No ex- no equipment workout. And how do I do it? It was really quite interesting. Yeah I love that. I'd what was what kind of stuff was in there like push ups and just body just literally old buddy white. No equipment needed unit. Truly Work Your Ossoff Phillip Hoffa. Now forty five minutes and it was the super me. It was the super me workout but that was really interesting. I had no idea. I assumed that obviously going to be the super he that was going to raise the money but because he was eighty nine such a base But don't tell him not emily and I don't want to get it. It'll it'll match his traps at this point because they have gotten well riffing large David. I've been working out really. I've been working out way too much and way too hard. This is the time that we tell. You is an intervention other doing a little bit of lower buddy. Well well you remember David like when we did for Tura that was four weeks right the Difference Between Day. One and twenty eight yeah. It's now it's doing that again. It's Day twenty eight from moving on from the previous day. Twenty eight right and also because my diet is. I'm still eating a lot of protein but I'm also you know. When he was shooting the movie I was emitting fasting and really eating a very very sad amount of food and now I'm eating a little bit more to your God. That makes it a little bit of a different stoop. I if I had if I didn't have any equipment. I'm lucky I do what I would do. Every day. Is Our do pushups and you can make pushups harder by like going. Really slow up putting your feet up on the couch. I would do crunches I would do. Lunges or squats even ain't doing this now. No is the point. That's what I'm like. I walk on my legs. I don't need to do with them. If I walked on my hands I wouldn't beginning shoulder. You hear this. I love it Yes I do say just putting it out that Bought it you know. It's good for men's health magazine. Shoot because that's generally all they shoot Tulsa Opera and also for you look right by the way you look very very proud also for the marvel movie shoot. The legs. Don't really matter who just seeing there should be kicking superhero. I really believe. Can you work on that David for let me do my thing? Let me do my hero. But just imagine a fights guy scrape up and he's like on not me kick kicking off. Dan. I just can't Kevin Kevin Feige. Give me a call. T. Rex arms. A planks are very good. Planks credibly useful life. You finally enough come out. Tempo plays like an entirely different role tempo. Meaning the House slowly. Perform movement all have quickly perform the movement plays a huge amount on places huge amounts of fatigue and also adaptations. So we're talking about outpatient and fatigue and and building a body as it work slowly the more time on detention that you have that you give yourself the more adaptation going to achieve so people love to swing through something just to lift above their heads for no reason whatsoever but if you were to slow that whole process down to really gentle pace you would a probably be lifting half. There was great for the EGO. I know that but your change and adaptation that you'll be achieving will be significantly Gracia. That was definitely something that is really important to tell everybody that you need to be doing a thousand press ups in a minute to get a change if you did ten really slow press ups in a minute you get equal amount of change and probably more and you'll have more control. You WanNa get out of physician. 'cause you'll have more time to correct your fool and that's actually quite important. I think that's a very good point because I had a roommate once that I remember walking and then she was doing Tai-bo so this tells you when it was in like late nineties early two thousands and she was just kind of half assing all the moves and was like she's a Cam. I'm actually really in great shape because like I don't even get out of breath when I do this and I remember being like and I wasn't like the most adept at working out back then but I remember being like you're not really doing kind when you're not doing it and you're just kind of going through the motions and I think this is one of those things that I think with working out. You can just go through the motions and be like well. It worked out. But you know in your heart like that's not you need to be like working up a sweat. You need to get your heart rate up and you need to like rows of the things that kind of help with your health. So you can kind of you know half Astro tai-bo Jessica Jessica but should be. It's not about the numbers you know when you're getting a good workout when you're not if you do as you said ten pushups really really slowly really like contract and feel the muscle than have that mind muscle connection thing. You will know that work. Art is better than just like banging out fifty in a row. I think you have a very good point. You were saying earlier just to start somewhere that you don't need to go from zero to like sixty like Lord insurmountable make it surmountable make it small enough that it feels okay and then add to that. I think sometimes people start to hard and then they don't like 'cause you know what I'm going to start a new easing program going to wet my Ossoff. I'm going to go to bed at nine nine. Pm and get twelve thousand sleep and you like and you don't do one or you might do one of those three hypothetically and then you'll feel really bad that you didn't achieve all three of them then you like well what's the point. I tried and you move on a my absolute my absolute advice here in this in this context is start really slow and start really small. So if it's really important to you to get a good night's sleep hopefully it is really important for you to get a good night's sleep literally. The best thing you can do is drink coffee past two. Pm Ideally twelve but say two PM for everybody out there and turn your phone off. Don't look at a screen for an hour before you go to bed this to get your sleep hygiene going on light lush improve your sleep hygiene especially right now. The News you're getting on. Your phone is not conducive to sleeping and also don't use your bed for anything but sleeping and I guess also but like don't don't be hanging out there. Don't be like eating food in there. Getting like changing. I change your clothes. Get dressed change. Clothes gets right. That's a big thing for me. We also have a new system where the last person to get out of bed has to make the bed immediately a new red immediately which we keep the house very very clean and what we do trying every other big cleaning. I'll tell you since we instituted this rule of whoever gets out of bed. I the other one makes bad. I've been getting out of bed. Like real fast real fast and we've been keeping a schedule. We go to bed at like ten thirty or eleven and then we get up around seven thirty every day and have breakfast together and then by nine were sort of one way one thing I just wanted to say real quick before we're done here is the way we started. Training is away that I never trained before. Which is generally this is I guess. Mostly I don't know what this is for people. Ask Me this all the time and I don't have an avenue to talk about it the way I used to work as you would do sort different body parts every day. That's how we're doing to one day would be chest and shoulders. One day would be back and biceps when they would be. You know that way. The way we started training was doing a full body workout every day. Just different versions. So one day would be heavy day which favorite and then we'll do live today issued a lighter day with more reps and against that's basically the tempo thing you were talking about that keeps the workout. Exciting for me is that I'm doing a full body every day but but the weights. I'm using and how how many reps I'm doing are changing. Yeah what we know now will have may not have told you this. Were you were training with previously? What your your. Your example was was very classic bodybuilder. Rest every other day I body pot as it worth you hit really hard and then you hit it really hard and that's and that's fine that's works that's great. That's fine. What why where I find you get. The quickest adaptation from Is And. This is now scientifically proven. Is that you one day. You pick up heavy stuff next day. You pick up a little lie with higher reps than the next day. Pick up heavy stuff next day. You do lots of reps and you hit literally every single body pot. Whether it's your chest your shoulders you back you know the routine. Don't you come out? What is it again? Yeah you do? It's a bench. Press shoulder press rose a biceps triceps. Ads and an ice cream. New Do it as a circuit so we do all our all six. There are six or seven and then start up again yes. The whole workout took about an hour. Yes exactly remember. We did like we've ended up doing our two halls and two and anyway that was fun but really it was really cool because at the beginning you were like all right. We're going to do forty kilo of benchpress with each and the dumbbell and I was like. Oh my God that feels impossible and the first time hitting five or six impossible by the end. We were hitting like twelve very easily. Yeah yeah and your. It's your central nervous system. You your central nervous. System adapts so much faster to say for example you have a skinny guy who lifts a lot and then you have a big junkie guy who can relatively you know within reason lift within quite quite quite reasonable like it's not about your muscle mass significant specifically within within reason. It is actually to do with your central nervous in how quickly you'll muscles fire to get that white above your head for example so just because you like I am. I was you far more bulky than I was but we will lifting the same thing a little bit more than you. I'M NOT GONNA lie off offense on what we're talking about definitely interest there were well. We each are strict. We had strength. We had not GONNA lie. You know we're we're doing okay but pretty close in In strengthening almost all the areas. Yeah Yeah Yeah but we have relatives like unquiet like a lean guy and you bulked out significantly so You know you wouldn't necessarily realize that we were lifting the sign and also we have that competition thing going that community about tribe thing. Let's just do this together kind of thing. Which really that's right. I think at the very most basic especially now when people are kind of stressing out a bunch like exercise at its most basic as a stress Reliever A. It's just a way to get out of your head and into your body. I think only time throughout the day that I am not thinking in the back of my head about all of this stuff is when I am working out and that's kind of that's been the most to me it's like it's a lot of us are stuck in our heads. I think a lot of people who listen to podcasts or people who got our own heads. It's a way more than anything. It's not about losing weight. It's not about like looking hot for Bikini season because we're not going to be in bikinis this year shortly but it is going to be about finding ways to get out of your own head that are healthy for you that. I think we're all GONNA need to. I think we're all going to have to kind of figure. Start something that we haven't necessarily touched on. This is mindfulness meditation. I know Camo you practice meditation. You Meditate as you make up done warnings. Yeah I was getting every day I would only for. This is super amyloid. I use an APP called Com- M. Com. They don't pay me or anything but I use it and it's for ten minutes and it's just a way of sitting there closing your eyes feeling how you're feeling just just sort of like resetting a little bit hearing what's around you and just sort of just sitting with yourself. It calmed me down a lot. And that's require any is very very I don't WanNa take it doesn't take that you just. I implement integrate because you did that. I didn't necessarily go down that road with you but I am too great. A exercise cold a box breath before each session. We begin and a box. Breath is literally you sitting down with? Whether you're sitting on the floor or cross legged on your knees or whatever's comfortable you leaning slightly over yourself and you breathe in three knows for the count of six you hold the Taupe that count you hold your breath at six and then you breathe out full six in hold at the bottom full six so you do that six to ten times as a breath that will really bring you out of your sympathetic state of your nervous system in nervous system which is a Flight Mechanism night. We are we are running away from a sabertooth tiger kind of because the anxiety that we're feeling right now we're now worshipful germ or we are nest state about sympathetic site very very dicey right now. So it's very important to bring ourselves back into what we call left power sympathetic site which is the rum. Which is the Netflix and chill? Which is the rest and relax feet in the brain. The whole state that we really need to balance themselves with so from a physiological and psychological perspective. It really is important to take breath. It doesn't take much to actually pull you back into a Paralympic Para sympathetic state that that level of breadth use censoring yourself. Just for ten breaths it will significantly improve your anxiety levels will bring back in the wake of vision will open up a little bit more and you just feel comma and I use that every session I do and it works wonders just for everybody just to get into that space. That's excellent. Molly would talk about this breathing technique. When we first started dating she'd be like you're very anxious breathing for six hold for six. Let it out. Yeah I learned it as a therapist so I love that. Yeah it's a great trick for. It's a great trick for every profession. I think what thank you so much for talking to us? David you are at David Higgins London and I should. I'm GONNA shout out. Ls Partridge who was also informative and toured with us a great trainer who he works for you and just want to say that he was always with us part of these workouts. We all three of US really hung out quite a bit. Yeah he's he's Great. He's the best and he's a really really great trainer to so look him up on Instagram as well. Also a very funny guy. He's got some comedy videos and stuff. That are really great. Yeah he's he's just he's one of a kind of a partridge. Make sure everybody if you're looking for something to start if you if it's time for you start working out in the midst of all this go to at David Higgins London If you prefer kind of dance your workouts or any. They're all kinds of workouts online Yeah start small. If you need to this I think this is really really good advice and start with start with breathing and if all you do is breathing one day. That's okay just keep going keep going right. Yep He had to start very very small and it's starting to feel easy. Add a little bit. So if you're doing ten pushups and that starting to feel easy do eleven push ups you know. Just sort of go at your own pace. Yeah exactly right well. Thank you so much David. S pleasure guys. It's really nice to catch up. Yeah it was very nice Mls At sang in podcast at guys

David London David Higgins Instagram Emily David Higgins London David Chang David Letterman Colorado marvel Janney Gordon Hungary David I youtube Emily Canary Islands David Down Netflix Michelle
The Future of Restaurants

Coronavirus: Fact vs Fiction

08:45 min | 7 months ago

The Future of Restaurants

"Whether it's a beloved local diner or special destination booked months in advance dining out his always had a special role in our culture in every culture. We go to restaurants to celebrate catch up to explore meet new people being a new environment. It's often how we connect but of all the places we like to gather now shutdown by this pandemic restaurants are also some of the hardest hit so today. We're going to talk to people in the industry. The chefs the restaurant tours to find out what they're trying to do to survive for them for us for everyone. I'm Dr Sanjay Gupta. Cnn's chief medical correspondent and this is corona virus fact versus fiction restaurants. Sort OF BOTTLE. The zeitgeist their community. And it's where people celebrate as not just about eating. That's David Chang. He's a chef and the founder of the momofuku group which has restaurants around the world. He's also the host of the Netflix show ugly delicious if food establishments were important. People wouldn't want it so badly. There's just somethin'. That is a connection to just being human besides tasting delicious foods. Chang calls restaurants quote cultural banks and worries about the erosion. This pandemic has had on all aspects of the dining experience. We literally take ninety percent of cash flowing. Give it back to everybody else. On top of trying to make delicious food and build organizations however small they might be no one gets in this business at least that. Iron Meyer so they can make a ton of money they do it because of the life and the positive impact you can have both on yourself and others around you and you that away that that. That's that's going to be pretty brutal closing. His restaurants in March was extremely difficult. He had to furlough around. Eight hundred workers in this week decided to close to of his restaurants reopening others. Maybe even harder. You have to reconfigure literally every decision of how you operate in a restaurant. It was hard enough to begin with. How do you taste food? How you order food. How do you sanitize now? How do you do contact with delivery? You even allowed transaction via credit cards anymore. So now you there's like all of these things now that are going to be expensive. Chang doesn't have the answers yet. But he thinks he knows what it's GonNa take. Define I just think that we're going to need some ingenuity and creativity to sort of align some mutual problems that we have in this country particularly in the food space and sort of reconfigure. How this whole works on his twitter feed. Chang has also been asking people to send him photos of reopened restaurants in cities like Taipei and Hong Kong. It's fascinating to look at them. Some of the photos show. Police Systems delivering coffee. Temperature checks at the door and customers. Even receiving full body disinfectant sprays. Don't worry with their clothes on too many. These measures may seem a little over the top. The common thread is we have to actually make impossible hap and that gives me optimism really genuinely does because these kinds of impossible tasks that sort of her. My brain are what I most attracted to. And we can't have anyone working off a different playbook everyone needs to be working the same playbook every restaurant every business in the absence of a so called restaurant playbook the National Restaurant Association which is a lobbying group is doing what it can to try and offer some guidelines for reopening obviously frequent hand washing some element of distancing some element of face covering certainly reduced interaction between the host. And the guest. That's Larry Lynch Senior Vice. President of Science and Industry at the National Restaurant Association Lynch said it's already begun. Restaurants are already testing out new methods. Everyone's looking visit different ways just this weekend. We saw one of the towns here in Florida. Closed down one of their street to the restaurant. Tours could pull the chairs out into the street. If you're used to going out as being a curated. Dining Experience Lynch describes the post pandemic world as sort of a safety focused obstacle. Course I would say what you're probably GonNa find is before you get there. You're going to look online and look what the instructions are in that particular restaurant what their expectations or. It may tell you to wait outside. May Ask you to place your order online. It may tell you that once you get outside. Send them attacks and let them know. You're outside wait once you're inside. You may wait a bit before the waiter or waitress actually comes up and greets you greeting maybe something as simple as confirming your order rather than taking your order. Once you die. You may find that your table is included as fasces. Wasn't it passed. It's going to be cleared all at once rather than sporadically during the dining experience. When you're dining probably won't see the manager come over to ask how your view was and whether or not you enjoyed yourself. Restaurants are going to have to tailor safety measures to suit their capabilities and it is possible. Not everyone can physically accommodate these recommendations for example Irene. Lee doesn't see her Boston. Restaurant may may hosting sin diners anytime soon. We're a small restaurant so we have about thirty six seats. Which means the possibility of socially distancing inside the building is basically none but Lee. Who was a finalist for this years? James Beard Rising Star Chef Award has still managed to find a silver lining. We are pretty much going to have to change our whole model which sounds scary but is also a really exciting opportunity. So how do we re imagine what a restaurant can be? Water restaurant can do what restaurant staff are capable of Lee in her employees are already starting to answer those questions. For example her restaurant may may is open for delivery and is also hosting virtual dumpling classes. The restaurant is delivering groceries to healthcare workers and selling pantry staples to the community like milk and eggs. The goal to help customers avoid the grocery store because I think supermarkets are going to feel unsafe for a lot of people for a long time and I just think like we have the ability to get almost any of those products probably at a better price at Mamie and so it would be kind of unconscionable to not try to use that to help keep people safer and to make their lives more. Convenient Lee is taking this time to rethink how a restaurant should operate. And she's hoping the industry is a whole does the same especially in the areas where it was struggling even before the pandemic. I think that this is a huge opportunity for us to keep talking about the biggest issue that our industry house which is Labor on the issue of jobs and low wages and like terrible workplace environments. That is always been the bane of this industry. I am hoping that the compensation model could be altered and cross training could become more prevalent. But that's the long term in the short term lease preoccupied with just keeping may may afloat even though she says. The survival of the restaurant isn't her biggest concern. If mamie doesn't exist in in five or ten years that's totally fine with me. I'm going to be really pissed off if there are no cool. Independently owned quirky restaurants to eat at like I cannot eat every day I refuse and so I think that for me. The question about Future is almost a little bit less important but for a lot of people in this industry is all we have one thing I've learned. Is that the restaurant. Industry is full of dedicated creative leaders and is someone who enjoys dining out. I'm optimistic. They're going to find ways to meet the challenges ahead and keep this important part of our culture alive. It's definitely GONNA be an uphill battle but I'm GonNa do what I can to support my favorite places with takeout orders and contributions to out of work employees. They could really use the help if you have questions. Please record them. As a voice memo and e mail them to ask Sanjay it's dot com might include them in our next podcast. We'll be back tomorrow. Thanks for listening.

National Restaurant Associatio David Chang Lee Dr Sanjay Gupta Mamie Cnn Lynch Netflix Larry Lynch Senior Vice twitter Iron Meyer James Beard founder Florida momofuku group Police Systems Taipei Irene President
The Economics of America's Nurse Shortage

The Indicator from Planet Money

09:48 min | 2 d ago

The Economics of America's Nurse Shortage

"N. p. r. adam. Johnston is an emergency room nurse. You just got up an overnight shift. Yeah adam has been doing the job for seven years he works in fargo north dakota and what are north dakota's like we. We have a lot of. I think stoic rural population. We talk a lot. You know like if they're presenting complaint is my wife made me come into the er. There's probably something really wrong with them. They're probably actually pretty sick. Of course adams job changed totally nine months ago. The hospital got ready for a huge surge of cova cases and adam was put in charge of the inpatient cove unit. He's they saw some cases and some very sick people but they never saw the huge surge. They had prepared for but he says starting in the fall they started to see more cases and more cases and more cases. We're seeing patient volumes. That are just beyond anything that we've ever seen before. North dakota has seen cova cases spike in the last couple of months. One in ten residents of the state has gotten sick. And north dakota has the highest kovic more talapity rate in the country. Adam says the hospitals are overrun Facilities are adding hallway beds To their er to be able to see more patients like their patients out in the hallways. Yeah in bed like embeds. Yeah and what is the staffing situation now. It's it's getting ross. It's getting rough. All across the country. hospitals are reporting staffing shortages. They're just enough nurses to meet demand right now. This is the indicator from planet. Money back smith today on the show the nursing shortage all over the country. Hospitals are desperate for healthcare workers. And there just aren't enough to go around and now some states like north dakota are resorting to drastic measures. This message comes from. Npr sponsor avalanche providing cloud based sales tax solutions for businesses of all sizes valera automatically integrates with more than seven hundred erp and ecommerce systems learn more at avalanche dot com slash indicator support for this npr. Podcast and the following message. Come from vox media. And its new podcast. Decoder with verge. Editor-in-chief neil patel. Decoder explores the future of business and tech with business leaders like salman. Khan david chang and mark cuban find decoder wherever you get your podcasts in the early days of the cova pandemic hospitals were scrambling for equipment masks gowns. Ventilators things like that now. The problem is people. Gb silvers is a professor of healthcare finance at case western reserve university. Now we've got p. Now staff is constraint. So i think going forward that's going to be the big issue across the country and you cannot predict. You can manufacturer more. Nurses just doesn't work that way. Gb has spoken with nurses all over the country and he says simply put they are exhausted. Months of double shifts p protocols changing information patients dying and the constant fear of infection. He says it is taking a huge toll. The she people leaving people are quitting their just quitting. Which is quitting. They're saying that's it. I mean how have a problem is this. I think it's it's huge. It's really big. Jab says as the supply of nurses is shrinking. Demand for nurses is skyrocketing so called traveling. Nurses are typically the reserve supply for disasters. They go wherever they're needed but right now they are needed. Everywhere and hospitals senior centers in nursing homes across the country are madly competing for nurses. There are reports of hospitals offering six thousand dollars a week to lure them in. Gb says that is creating a crisis situation especially for hospitals in rural communities and low income areas. They don't necessarily have the money to bring in reserves or to even keep the nurses they have at the same time. They're seeing a flood of very sick. Patients states like mississippi colorado and missouri are desperate in fact the hospital. Staffing situation in north dakota got so bad that the governor doug burgum announced the state would be taking a pretty drastic measure show. Today we took a step to help address. The staffing issue with an amended state health officer order that now is going to allow a symptomatic cova positive healthcare workers to work in cova units of license healthcare facilities in other words nurses and doctors who test positive for covid but aren't showing symptoms are being asked to keep working. Adam johnston the emergency room nurse. Fargo says he could not believe it when he heard this. It feels like nurses are being sacrificed. What was especially troubling to adamant his colleagues. Was that north. Dakota hadn't taken many other measures to contain the covid. Nineteen outbreak there was no mask mandate no ban on indoor dining or large gatherings wizard will wear where the prevention measures It it felt like this concept of thank you. Heroes was tossed by the wayside. We you know through the first several months we saw lots of lots of signs you know. Thank you healthcare heroes and and people on on the news an public and and there was a great strong outpouring of support. Oh yeah and then i saw. Oh so this is how we're going to combat covert. Were going to put our nurses at risk you know now. Now where where. Where is the the the recognition for being a hero in. That says this has made things even harder at work. Feels like there's no place to relax because even the staff break room is potentially full of very sick people. You cannot let your guard down. At all atom heads north dakota's emergency nurses association and he and other healthcare workers spoke out. After the governor's announcement and the governor has since issued a statewide mask mandate and has limited gatherings and indoor dining adams's. He truly appreciates that still. He says these days his job is just really hard. So what are your days at work. Like now It's exhausting You know. I'm i'm an er nurse. I like results I like to see patients get sutures and go home. I like to see us do. Cpr revive people I'm very results oriented and to go to work every day and just say you know. Well who's who's gonna die. Today is not what. I signed up for and adams says the risk physical and psychological burnout is always looming. He says he used to be able to leave his job at work. Whatever happened during a shift. He could always leave it at the door. It was the key to avoiding burnout as a nurse. Now says he just can't they're all these moments that haunt him as he keeps thinking about this one cova patient who was getting sicker and sicker. Adam knew he was dying so he called the emergency contact so we can at least have facetime moment with a family member or a friend before he passed. There was a phone number there listed for a friend. And so i called that friend and said you know hey Do you have contact info for for his family. And he's there there is nobody. It's it's just me. I live next door. And i i go over there now on that and check in on it and so that that for me was just sort of the the epitome of seeing somebody that just died alone from this And just like very alone like like no. No face timing None of that. It just sort of put into perspective. How really truly painful. It is to witness that happen. Yeah yeah so. That's that's one patient. That i can't forget about him a lot. This episode of the indicator was produced by jamila huxtable. Fact checked by sean saldana. The indicator is edited by paddy hirsch and is a production of npr.

north dakota cova adam vox media Khan david chang western reserve university six thousand dollars adams neil patel doug burgum Johnston fargo nine months Adam johnston seven years mark cuban North dakota salman Npr Adam
'Ugly Delicious' In The Time Of Covid

The Frame

25:41 min | 9 months ago

'Ugly Delicious' In The Time Of Covid

"The from the MON BROADCAST CENTER AT KPCC. This is the frame. I'm John Horn. Today's show California has ordered that all public events with two hundred fifty people are more be cancelled or postponed. What's next for producers of live theater and David Chang the chef from the series ugly delicious challenges your perceptions of food and a lot more. Everybody wants to eat something delicious. No one wants to eat bad foods but the meaning behind it and the value behind it and the culture of truce behind it tend not always be correct and it's the old saying of beauties beholder. It's the same with food that's today the frame. We'll be right back. The Corona virus effect has spread into every part of our culture in New York. All shows on Broadway have been canceled into April and concert. Giants live nation and AG has suspended all tours here in California. In an attempt to slow the spread of the virus state officials today called for the cancellation or postponement of public gatherings with more than two hundred and fifty people through at least the end of March. The touring production of Hamilton at the pantages. On hold and the Music Center in downtown. La has shut down as have most venues throughout the region. Danny Feldman is the producing artistic director of one of those theaters. The Pasadena playhouse Danny. Welcome back to the show. Thank you John. Thanks for having me so. The state has called for gatherings of more than two hundred and fifty people to be canceled or postponed for venues that have current shows up or might have shows coming up. What are the factors that might weigh in on the decision? The theaters here in Los Angeles particularly the theaters and performing art centers. We've actually been in contact for several weeks now. more contact than I think we've ever had or I've ever had with our colleagues Discussing that exact question. What what are the criteria for US making change? We don't WanNa make which is which is cancelling performances on our stages. And we've really all I've been guided together by looking to the government looking to the county officials Barbara Ferrara the health department to give us guidance on when public gathering we'll be limited. The playhouse happens to be dark until late. May when you have the perspective of not having to make an immediate decision and talk to your theater colleagues about what they're facing. What kind of perspective does that give you in terms of how you go about making this decision? Yeah while while we don't have a main stage production we actually have about fifteen different events Between now and then May when our next season show comes in so we were looking at it as well of all those individual events as well as community events but It's not just about ticket sales on that side of it and serving our communities but we have a lot of people are artists or crew. Just the theater community who make a living when we have shows and who don't make living when we don't have shows So these are very challenging complex decisions and we really were relying on the government issuing a recommendation. So I think you'll see a lot of motion now that that has happened. So what you're touching on is a particular problem because if you're not getting the income from ticket sales you don't have the money to pay staff and actors and yet those actors and staff don't have income so what happens are people just left in the lurch. How can any arts organization go about pain? People who are suddenly unemployed. That's that's the question. Particularly nonprofit organizations right Typically nonprofits do not have reserves like many businesses to weather a storm of a very significant loss of income At this point. The governor's recommendation is through the end of March. We don't have guidance beyond that we are planning for beyond that personally. I've been through some thing not to the scale. But in New York I was running an off Broadway theatre at the time of the hurricane that struck New York and we were down for quite some time. and lessons learned from that about circling our wagons reaching out to our communities and to our supporters and asking them to step up and away and I see just sort of looking around the corner of what's to come. I think that will be one hundred percent necessary in this case for our Los Angeles cultural institutions. So there is the moral thing about what you can and cannot do. Then there's the legal question of what you can and are maybe obligated to do. Have you looked at all about whether or not you're contractually obligated to pay artists for shows that might be coming up or might be cancelled. Yeah I mean every. I won't speak on on other theaters but most of the professional theaters. You know have as little as two weeks notice of of saying. We're canceling the show if you think about a a producer putting up a closing notice because the show's not selling tickets the businesses designed to be flexible in that way With crew calls and all of that so there a couple of weeks that that are provided for flexibility. But nothing longer than that we're talking with Danny Feldman the producing artistic director of the Pasadena playhouse. Your next show on your main stage is a one woman show about Ann Richards and it's scheduled to open in late. May Governor Gavin. Newsom said this morning that the closure recommendations will likely extend beyond the end of this month. So how long can you wait before you make a decision on the fate of that show? You know. We're assessing that right? Now we're assessing we. We've slowed down our set build and those kind of activities for that specific show. We have a bit of time and we want to just see how long this will go. We did anticipate this order. Coming in some form And we internally we all looked at this as something that could be here for one two three months or so but as you know. This is a fast moving situation. Twenty four hours ago. I felt differently about things than I do now and I think it's speeding up and we're really starting to understand what the impact is going to have In the art scene and in the community and particularly to to the theater makers are the performing artists here in the community. That make their living. This way we're very concerned. Hypothetically if a theatre had say a thousand seat venue does it. Make any sense to only sell two hundred seats to that show and get everybody spaced out or does not even really pass the logical smell test. You Know I. I don't know if that's the experience of patrons watt particularly in this moment or to be in the theater. There's some other theaters talking about recording performances and transmitting it via the Internet for ticket buyers. And we're certainly looking at all of those different options of that. This is an extended period. How are performing arts community can still engage with our constituents in this in this temporary way But I you know. We haven't gotten there yet in terms of conversations with unions and all of that right now we're just really focused on the immediate and and and how we're getting through this period and the next couple of weeks. Dennis Feldman is the producing artistic director of the passing playhouse. Danny thanks for coming on the show. Thank you John. Coming up on the frame the series ugly delicious. Follow Chef David Chang and like a lot of people who run restaurants. These are scary times for him. If you're a Foodie and you're looking for something a little different than your average culinary competition on TV. The netflix documentary series. Ugly Delicious. Might be perfect for you hosted by award winning Chef David Chang. Ugly delicious uses foods to open up a conversation and the end result breaks down cultural barriers as it shines a light on the human experiences that unite us. All I spoke with David. Chang and his Collaborator Academy Award. Winning documentary filmmaker Morgan Neville about making the second season of ugly delicious but before we talked about the series we started with the Presi News of the day. How the corona virus is impacting. The Food Service Industry Chang himself owns more than a dozen restaurants around the world. Man I wish I could give you a better answer than I'm still trying to figure it all out myself. It's something that we have been preparing for for quite some time. Because I'm paranoid person in general but I think this is obviously going to change the landscape of not just restaurants but retail and small business in general. So I'm just trying to figure out you know what happens if and when this all ends. That's that's that's very hard to picture and I don't really have an answer and then trying to make sure that everyone washes their hands. And if you're sick stay home for not feeling well stay home and figuring out what we can do but I think operating a restaurant right now is probably secondary to the safety and health of every one of our employees and guests. Have you noticed a downturn in the number of people who have been dining restaurants? I think across the board. If you talked to anyone I would say the answer is yes and particularly my friends that operate restaurants in Italy China and Japan and Hong Kong and I- beginning a lot of potential data patterns as to what might happen here. It's not that will look is not looking great right now and Morgan. What about you because so much of your work is out on the field meeting people interviewing people being in crowds? How is it changing your production schedule your outlook on the kinds of stories that you can and are able to tell we've already had to cancel a couple of shoot trips? We had a shoot trip to South Korea this week. Actually that we canceled about a month ago and I think all international travels off for the time being but even domestic travel a lot of it is a little sketchy at the moment. So that part of it I think is difficult. I think the post production part which for what I do and nonfiction big big piece is I think we're going to be okay doing that. So basically if we can kind of hunker and edit and kind of wait until some subsides than than I think it may be won't be too bad of a a disruption but but that's kind of a best case scenario and have you guys even had early conversations about another season of ugly delicious because obviously you're out about when you're making that series. We've been talking about it. Since the last dave shooting of last season I think we all love making the show. It's just finding the right the right time in place and and and the opportunity. I want to ask you about the first time you met and the first conversations about doing the show. We met strangely enough on working on another series. That never happened with sort of a pilot and it was with coach k. From Duke and I spend a day with coach k. I think it was like what was it two days or one day one day and obviously a big fan of Morgan's work and that's how we met and whatever happened that day in terms of shooting. I think Morgan felt Maybe it was a good idea to see if there's something else to do down the road. Yeah I came from that day feeling like Oh my God this guy needs a TV show. Like Dave was so not just articulate and smart but vulnerable in a way that I really appreciated talking about his own kind of neurosis and things that I thought was really just an open book which is kind of a great a great thing for a subject but then when I got to hang out with him and some of his Food writer friends and chef friends and hear them talk and realize that what they do is argue about food and argue about everything how it relates to food and I felt like Oh these are the conversations I've never heard you know. These are the conversations we don't get in most food programs which which tend to kind of tell you the best place or the proper way or the whatever and I thought it was really interesting to have arguments about culture through food and really in my mind. That's kind of what ugly delicious is a cultural debate show masquerading as a Fujita. But those debates and arguments aren't necessarily mean spirited. It seems like so much of what we see on television as it relates to chefs are mean. It's Hell's kitchen kitchen. Nightmares worst cooks in America. Or It's maybe too fussy like chefs table. Where you have to do things that no regular chef can do well. I think if I behaved in a manner of Hell's kitchen or those dramatically bad real TV series or even chess table which is again as you say like very glossy. I don't know Morgan would work with me about telling our version of of a story. That's honest as possible. Yeah I mean it was something about the messy. -Ness of what Dave was doing there is. There is kind of an aesthetic to these debates that was just messy. It wasn't trying to make everything tidy both in terms of food and in terms of argument that it was it was saying. It's okay to ask questions. It's okay to disagree. We're all trying to figure it out and I thought that was really interesting. Approach both in terms of the filmmaking and in terms of the story well it strikes me that the show becomes through that less a show about being in the kitchen and more show about being in the world. That food is the backdrop. But it doesn't feel as to the story that it's really about people happen to do this. And that's what they share in common. Do you think that's a little bit of how this season has evolved? And I think absolutely I think Dave Haggar Adorn the award-winning food critic food writer and the stakes episode. Basically said it and it's a sort of a state of mind that. I didn't quite grasp until doing this sort of episode. And you know if you just go out to a restaurant to eat. That's just that has no meaning the whole idea of eating to me which was a central. I think pattern theme running through all four episodes was community. A lot of this show is about. You're kind of experiencing new ways to cook new approaches to food. Do you think of yourself as kind of the ambassador for the audience. Not only in new ways of seeing food but also in new ways of seeing other cultures Bashar audience. I try to go in just as me but I think where there might be connection to the audience and why sometimes the audience may be like allergic to me is because and just like going on going into situations like a dummy trying to have an open mind and have my opinions be proven wrong so I'm just always open to changing things. It's the whole idea. What strongly held beliefs loosely held or something like that. But I don't know Morgan. Morgan can say a little bit more about that. Like he loves putting me in situations where. I don't know anything I love to see. Dave get schooled you know. It's it's great because they both have strong opinions. But he's really willing to have those challenged and I think as often as we can put him in situations where that happens the better. I mean the the episode on Indian food was a perfect example because Dave basically said this is really important and I know nothing so it was a great kind of adventure to send him on Because he he learned everything. His ignorance in that way was an was an asset. I WANNA ask you Dave about this idea of ugly delicious. It describes a way of cooking. That may not be pretty but it tastes good. I would say it's kind of really well made comfort food home cooking and there seems to be such a kind of split right now in high end. Dining over the weekend I was up in Berkeley. I had dinner at Chez Panisse were. The menu is not cheap. But it's really simple beautiful ingredients prepared perfectly and yet at the other we. Have you know people who are cooking? You know Kofi of Unicorn with an amuse Bouche of dragon tears. How would you place your food between those two extremes because it seems to occupy a very special place for you? I mean the reality is I love. Both sides of that equation and and this is just one giant spectrum with with a very complex tasting menus and things that can be as pure as what Alice makes it Chez Panisse and I think to me the weird balances you tried to embrace both simultaneously and you know the whole idea of ugly delicious was food. Everybody wants to eat something delicious. No one wants to eat bad food but the meaning behind it and the value behind it and the culture truce behind it tend to not always be correct and it's the old what the beauty of the beholder. It's it's the same with food. And what is it? Kimchi is a perfect example. Like I grew up. Eating G in Bramley made fun of growing up for eating him now. Everybody wants so. It's funny how that all works so it's really just trying to tell stories that we all WanNa tasty things. We are actually all sort of eat. The same thing The only thing that sort of gets in our way or cultural ignorance coming up on the frame more of my conversation with the creators of ugly delicious David Chang and Morgan Neville. We continue now with my conversation with David. Chang and Morgan naval there the creators of a Netflix documentary series ugly delicious for this culinary show. Food is just a springboard for a deeper discussion about race class gender and more so I asked novel how ugly delicious connect something as simple as a plate of food to meaningful debate. We talk about the conversations. I you know what are the things we want to explore? And then what's food? That takes us there and I think underneath. Every episode is an idea that we don't necessarily ever articulate that we want to investigate it could be immigration or authenticity or tradition. But it's then through the food that we kind of tell that story we can Trojan Horse in and I love that. I think that's what's so great about food is that it's it's something we all have a relationship to we all eat. We all identify to some extent by what we eat and how we eat and how other people eat so I feel like it's the most common part of culture so what better way to tell stories to help understand people and understand ourselves through food so I think it's been amazing to work on the show because yes it's about food but it's about whatever we want to talk about too. It's impossible to watch your series and not think of Anthony Bourdain and his passing in fact. There's a moment where you talk about where you were David. On the day he died. I'd like to ask the chef. Morgan is a filmmaker about the influence at Anthony. Bourdain had on you as storytellers. Though first time I ever did. Real any television was because they anthony and In many ways been older brother mentor to me and really taught me a lot and I think it was. Just be yourself and be a good person. I mean he had to know. Ask Rule so you know I just. I just never thought I'd have those opportunities with Tony and I think that's what really taught me is just be a good person. Tried to be honest and and and promote the stories that aren't being told and actually I think Morgan because Morgan's working on on the Board Bane. He might have a different side altogether. It's interesting because I am working on a feature doc right now about about Anthony Bourdain which is interesting because I was always a fan of his in the way a lot of people. Were you know when I caught him on TV? I enjoyed it. And I'd read kitchen confidential but it wasn't until after doing ugly delicious that I really started working on this film and doing a deep dive into everything he wrote and every show he did and really getting to the very bottom of it and realizing how much of this ground he ceded for us to be able to do what we do. You know in really. He began this type of program and did it in such an incredible way and I think the thing echoing what Dave was talking about the thing that he had the works so well as an incredibly authentic ability to be himself on camera and when I would talk to people who knew him. Everybody say the Tony. You saw on camera was him and I think a lot of that's true dave to the Dave is the guy on TV. And I think that's something you and Tony. Sheridan maybe recognising eachother. Which is you? Were authentically yourselves and didn't really care about what other people thought Dave. Well before there was a pandemic people were worried about other cultures and about what it meant to be an immigrant and whether or not it was a good idea to build walls and so much of the show and I think so much of your cooking is about how food can cross borders. And I'm wondering. What kind of role do you see cooking and sharing tables and communal dining in that broader conversation about how much we share as opposed to how different we are. Well everything you just mentioned. I think we're just at the very beginning stages of it I mean talk about the pandemic you have congressional leaders still calling it the Wuhan virus or the Chinese virus so there. There's a stigma attached to many cultures. Not that that are immigrant or foreign to America and I think that you see that best still in food and how other cultures food or perceived or or or or how open people are to it. So we're really just scratching the surface of this and maybe it doesn't ever get that acceptance but I think for the first time in a long time there's a platform to have these conversations whether it's talking about the fact that Indian food isn't just curry and that's a misnomer or you know the idea that vertical spit cooking and the food from the Middle East which is still. I don't even know what that actually call it. Because it's just not the right phrase and I'm still working on that like there's stories that haven't been told that are now being told and listen. I'm a Korean American and I never saw this as a kid growing up. I saw Martin. Yan on PBS. And now maybe you know the the the generation of younger kids watching this show. They're going to be the ones that can actually push this forward in was that we can't and Morgan when you're editing these episodes how hard is it not to have stacks and stacks of food in front of you or do you have a no food in the editing. Bay Rule. So you don't have to worry about it. The problem is when I'm watching at. It's maybe at night. I get really hungry so we try and work on it just before lunch for dinner but but don't watch episodes late at night. David Chang and Morgan Neville are the creators of ugly delicious. The second season of the series is on Netflix. Now and that'll do it for today but just a note before we go. This is an important time for all of us to be well informed. Kpcc AN NPR are committed to bring you reliable information about the corona virus and breaking news. And that's why we have paused our membership drive but we can't exactly paws are vital need for funding and support from people like you our listeners. So while we aren't interrupting programming with our pledge drive today we still need your support so today. Your gift will be matched dollar for dollar. Thanks to a generous gift from Gordon and Donna Crawford. Thanks for listening and supporting. I'm John Horn. We're back here tomorrow at the Broadcast Center.

Morgan Neville David Chang Dave Haggar Danny Feldman Netflix director Los Angeles Anthony Bourdain New York John Horn producer David America Pasadena US Giants California California Hamilton Music Center
391 Shanghai-based Investor Talks Mindfulness; David Cheng

Mindfulness Mode

22:48 min | 2 years ago

391 Shanghai-based Investor Talks Mindfulness; David Cheng

"Mindfulness mode three hundred ninety one trust that inner voice that could be defined as consciousness reach new heights of calm, focus in happiness here on mindfulness mode with me your host and mindfulness life coach Bruce Lankford have you ever thought of launching your own podcast? That's something that almost anyone can do. And I want to tell you that you will need to do some research and figure out how to do it. One of the things is you'll need a host a place to upload your episodes. And pod being is where I applaud mine and pod being is wonderful the cost is reasonable. They're so helpful. They're built specifically for podcasters. And they've been around for ten years. Like, I said the pricing is super competitive. It's nine dollars a month. No matter how much content you upload. And they have great stats as well. You can help support mindfulness. Mode and get a month for free with my affiliate link. So just go to pod being dot com. Forward slash pod. Bean m m standing for mindfulness mode. I'm excited about today's show everybody because I met this man in in Atlanta. When I was there speaking at the consciousness conference, and he's an investor, and I'm going to share a little bit about him his bio David Chang is a based investor entrepreneur he founded angel vast group which provided the initial seed funding to bring Hanson robotics to Hong Kong from the USA, David was former product developer at Honda and MD in Japan and USA and he's invested in over twenty early and growth stage companies he's a former investment banker at US China, bulge bracket and boutique firms he also. Lead AMD's microprocessor technology transfer to China's ministry of science and technology David holds an MBA from Harvard Business School and a b s electrical engineering degree from the university of Rochester. I totally enjoyed talking with David, and I think that will show in this interview that you're about to enjoy so sit back relax and take in this. Great interview with David Chang. Hey mindful tribe. I'm here today with an awesome gassed, I'm here with David Chang. And I know know, if you know David Chang is the chief financial officer at Hanson robotics. Hey, David are you in mindfulness mode today? I've been in mindfulness moat the entire weekend. I mean, we're here at this fantastic conference called the zen consciousness conference in Atlanta, Georgia, I've not been here in decades. And it certainly opened my mind about what consciousness can be as I said many times to the audience and new friends that are met here. I'm a newbie at this. I'm completely or I think I'm completely new at mindfulness, and I was trying to learn more about it and get exposed to it meet friends that could help me become more mindful and what I do. Well, david. It's absolutely has been a terrific weekend. I've been so excited to be here. But you know, you seem like a person who is grounded. And I know that you say you haven't really done a lot of mindfulness. But you seem like you're very grounded and very intentional. Just in the way, you come across. What what's your response to that? I suppose I should take that as a compliment. But I'll work on that. I'll try to be more edgy. I guess. I guess it relates to state of being and. Senate behavior, even you know for me while onstage, but also more importantly, probably in the last couple of years, and you know, there's a lot of things going on in my life. That keeps me very very busy. Lot of balls in the air that gotta juggle. And I realize that worrying about those things having fear. Having worried thoughts early doesn't help. So somehow, I mechanically or consciously. Force. Stay to come. Sure exactly how it can do that. But somehow, I take a step back. And then I try to look at the bigger picture of what those many things are. And what they mean? So what I do is. I think you know, what is the ultimate impact? Is it just because something is bugging me. And you know, if it costs some money, then that's fine. Money's just a tool to accomplish what one wants the -ccomplish in once journey throughout life. So there are ways that I try to in a reduce that executive or our fear, or whatever you may want to call it. And I try to ground myself in that regard. So I guess what what I said was right? You are grounded you try to ground yourself try to grab it. That's that's good. Well, what does mindfulness mean to you after you've been at this event for three days? What would you say couple of things? I mean. You know, the way that I was schooled in trained and kind of brought through various work environments. Analyze things you come across the tuition's, you kind of devise options options, AB CD, it's at TRE. And then you pick right. And then you run the numbers. And so that would make sense option b what I'm trying to do. And what I've learned that that probably is a bit more effective is trust your gut trust, your intuition. And if something comes to mind when that when that little voice inside or yourself says, hey, it's it's this one, you know, it's this direction or that. It's option B or option C than that probably could be it. And what I'm trying to do better to trust that inner voice that could be defined as consciousness, and that we all have and to move in that direction. Once I hear it, David. You're a grad of the Harvard Business School was that a high stress place to be that was very interesting place. I mean, I had worked preview. For a large Japanese company Honda Motor and everybody was. Similar or everybody was encouraged to be similar. I should say when I got to the Harvard Business School. It was an amazing eye opening experience of diversity people from different backgrounds people from different parts of the world. And I felt that. Yes. These are all high achievers, and I was humbled to be part of that group. And certainly was also environment in terms of an educational experience. You're an investor what was the most challenging investment that you ever made. What was the most tense stressed out investment that you just didn't know what to do? And then you just sprung for can you describe that? While they're couple that I thought were kind of interesting. I mean, I wouldn't say that you know, anyone was tense more than the other others. Let's say, but there some investments that I can think about that. I thought while looking back. It wasn't the obvious choice. But look at it. Now, kind of turned out to be okay. One of those examples is handsome robotics when I invested in that company for years ago in doctor, David Hanson. He was living in Dallas, Texas where there was no early stage. Venture capital available. He had just recently won that time a startup competition in Hong Kong, and I thought, wow, this guy makes pretty amazing lifelike robots and. His artistry. His craft was amazing and guts Noma bit better at thought. Well, that's the company that I should invest in even though at that time there was no market for robotics or artificial intelligence. There were quite a few people in my team, my members that thought that was a crazy investment. But looking at that now where we are in the world today and how I has become so popular and how some of the robots have become so popular, I think that was a good investment choice. Do you sometimes feel like you're living in the shadows of some of your robots like Sophia? Well, so if he certainly has become a very very popular and well-known robot globally, and I think it's amazing that the world has embraced her. So the answer is sometimes yes, you know, we as people behind Sophia perhaps do live in the shadow of Sofia, but behind behind severe there is an amazing team of people that have made her what she is today and will continue to develop her capabilities and skills to become a more lifelike robot. I know that you spend a lot of time with business decisions and and business in general. But what do you love to do in life? Besides that. Well, my family, of course, I enjoy spending time with my family when I was younger in college. I started taking martial arts classes of in Japanese showed a con karate, and I stayed with that the past while decades, actually, and that's also been a source of my own meditation and away to be mindful to me, it's meditative the some of the techniques Blunkett, the punches blocks kicks are very basic. But it number one is is great workout. But Secondly, I'm trying to tie that martial arts to homes and consciousness and mindfulness. Well, I think there's probably a very close tie to'sign consciousness with that. So I think that's great now. I want to ask you about bully. Seeing I always ask you a question about this. Is there a story you can share with us? Maybe when you're a child, maybe as an adult in business, where maybe you bullied, someone or someone bullied, you do you have a story, you can share with us where mindfulness would have made a difference as to how it came out. That's a great question. I mean, bullying is being b has become a hot topic in modern times. And one of the tenets of of karate his. The first one is seek perfection of character. And in that statement in itself. All people who practice that martial. Art are asked to behave in a way that would be respectable of others and yourself that means no bullying when I was growing up in New York state. It was a very different environment many decades ago and people didn't take bullying. Seriously, if at all, and certainly observed bouts of that and even myself growing up as a as a kid. You know, I was more of the quiet side on the shy side. And some people did take advantage of that. And while the found it to be bothersome, I was able to find my own ways to just avoid that or to fund other interests that that didn't put me into let's say a negative mood or hurt depression. Let's say, but I think it's a big problem or think it was a big problem. And I think in today's society because I got two kids my own now, that's certainly something that I look out for in their school in their environment. And I think it's all about upbringing values at home education and also finding ways perhaps through mindfulness or consciousness to elevate our society our community to realize that rural. Connected and that kind of behavior, whether it's, you know, amongst your peers, or with within your your your your your social group amongst your kids that kind of behavior can be can be changed. I would leave. Yeah. I think you're right. I think you're right. You know in in life. We all have a lot of ups and downs at seems how do you deal with your downs? Do you ever feel depressed? Well, there are moments of of well, wow. I could have done that better or this should be better. And. Much of depresses right word to use. But certainly disappointment, of course. And I guess the way that I would deal with that is through introspection. Through. Thought about finding ways that that could be avoided going forward. David you said that money is a tool, how would you like to live in a world with no money? What would that be like for you? Well, that's a very interesting question because I'm also looking at the world crypto currencies and role with the money would be a world with cryptocurrencies. And what would that be like for you? You probably know a lot more about crypto currencies than I do. Well, it's a theoretical question. And I think if you look at money as we know it today. You know, what is money what is currency? And and why do we have different currencies? So here the United States we use the US dollar in Canada, use the Canadian dollar and you go to Hong Kong, the Hong Kong dollar ego to Europe. There's a euro when you go to Japan, there's the yen, and you go to China. There's the rim and be right different color bills different denominations, but somehow through the currency exchange system, you can go from one country to the next and you can exchange your currency. So you can use the money locally. And you think about who is legally able to print money, and they are now only while governments, right? They're able to print Fiat. However, what if there's a world out there that whereby not just governments? But also businesses. Individuals could quote unquote printer on money, and wouldn't that be amazing environment where you know, if an individual let's I could print my own coin. Why token the David Chen token and establish some value behind that token, and that could be used as a form of currency because I've I can establish some assets as a massive value reputat behind that people perceived value. So if everybody could do that, then that will be very different world than what we see today. In terms of using money. All already we already have electric payment systems in China. We have we pay in mercury of pay pal. Right. And these are moneyless ways, but, you know, traditional money less ways that we're transacting buying goods and services without the use of quote, unquote money. I think a lot is going to change as far as how currency is dealt with our world. And that's interesting. You said you have to children, what do you hope for for your children in the world? Is they grow up. Well, I just hope that they do their best can identify what they love to do really enjoy to do and pursue that with a passion. And. And. And can use that passion news that that skill and make a positive contribution to their lives and to the world to society. David. I know that you are CFO at Hanson, robotics, what other companies are you heavily involved in. Well, I became the CFO of Hanson robotics as a result of my investment into the company. I'm also on the board which resulted from mine vestment, I am an angel investor at heart that is the core of what I do besides Hanson, robotics, I've also invested through my fund into twenty five more companies for the most part early stage startup companies around the world, not just in Asia. But also here the United States and Europe as well. So I love looking at new companies I personally have seen in reviewed thousands of business plans. I've met with thousands of entrepreneurs, and I always love hearing people story stories about their businesses their aspirations their visions what they wanna do with their idea. And how they want to perhaps build a great company around that if I had a great company, and I wanted David Chang to invest in it, what would be my first move. How would I I would I make that happen? Well, spend time with me get to know me. So I can get to know you. And so I can understand what you're about. You know, whether you have obviously, the right skills, and aspirations, but more importantly, if you have the right character, you know, whether you're a good guy good gal, and you know, whether you can be haven act with the utmost, integrity and have a good heart to kind of do the right thing for our world today. A lot of it has to do with morals. Absolutely. That's good. To know. That's good. To know. I don't think there's enough emphasis on that. In our world. David as we move forward in the interview. I want to ask you five quick answer questions. Okay. So just thirty second. Answers are perfect. The first one is this who is one person who has influenced mindfulness in your life. Should if drew Shifa was incredible. Isn't he is amazing? Special. How has mindfulness affected your emotions, David? I think it's kept my emotions in check. I mean there are times when I was younger were angered flair, and you know. Emotions would kinda run up and down. But I think that. You know, if if I were to take a step back as a nation and kind of brushed it off. Well, that is growth as my my personal growth. I believe David. How was breathing a part of your mindfulness? I wish I could do better. Yeah. And I think we can all work on that. D- recommend a book of any kind that is related to mindfulness. So I'm very interested in this topic. And last year, I the pleasure of meeting one of the other panels who might invited this time John Marshall Robertson, he wrote the book called the voice cared. And I thought some of the things that he was saying in there really resonate to a lot of the topics of the conference. I went through his book and John coached me, and it was a fantastic experience. And for me, at least in terms of understanding, what mindfulness could be and I'll put that into our show notes mindful tribe that book and all the other information we've been talking about is there an app that you recommend that can help with mindfulness. While I download the app cult come. Unfortunately, I don't use it that much these days, but I will I would like to more. So a lot of people recommend that app. And I I know it really works for a lot of people, David. It's been awesome talking to you interviewing you about all this. And you know, as we continue to you know, move forward and life's journey. I hope you enjoy working more in consciousness in mindfulness from what we've learned this weekend. It's been awesome. So thanks very much for being here. Thank you. My pleasure. Yeah. Mine too by now. Bye. Bye. Thanks so much for joining us today on mindfulness mode for show notes for every episode checkout mindfulness mode dot com and type the guest's name or the episode number into the search bar. You can also go mindfulness mode dot com slash whatever episode number. You like if you've enjoyed this podcast, you could help us out by subscribing to mindfulness mode. Wherever you listen, whether it's on I tunes or Stitcher Google play Spotify, so many places you can hear mindfulness mode, so hit subscribe and share because that truly helps our show and remember if you're thinking of launching your own podcast, you can get a free month at pod being with it's awesome pricing and fantastic stats. You can just do that by going to pod bean dot com slash pod. Bean m m stand. Ding for mindfulness mode. So remember subscribing and sharing helps keep mindfulness mode on the air till next time mindful tribe us what we've learned today to reach new heights of calm, focus and happiness, stay in the mode.

David David Chang Hong Kong United States David Hanson Hanson robotics Harvard Business School Atlanta Honda Motor China Japan Europe AMD Bruce Lankford China university of Rochester David Chen investment banker
David Chang on What Makes Restaurants Too Small to Fail | Larry Wilmore: Black on the Air

Larry Wilmore: Black on the Air

54:07 min | 7 months ago

David Chang on What Makes Restaurants Too Small to Fail | Larry Wilmore: Black on the Air

"All right welcome back to black on the everybody. This layer one more. It's it's good to be back here. Been away for a while Well you know it's been crazy times and we've been trying to you know I've been trying to figure out how I WANNA do this. Show going forward and needed a little break. You know just to kind of gather and just kind of figure out the way four but first of all let me say. I hope everybody's doing well out there. Hope stain safe. I hope you're doing okay. There's so many issues to deal with people Losing their jobs not been able to make money out there. People losing their businesses people dealing mental health issues is a big thing right now as well as the virus itself on a personal note a friend of mine husband passed away from the from the virus and Man. It was very him very shocking. When something like that hits close to home and I'm speaking for a lot of people out there who've experienced this you know how it can seem in the abstract when you're watching it and you feel sorry for the people but when it hits home it is it is a little different you know so you know. My heart goes out to everybody dealing with this problem. Well with all of this. You know we're all dealing with it. I saw this story on the news. Nick Cordero's Who's The actor Bronwyn Star? His wife. Man. She's so fricking brave I think he's been on a ventilator and has to get his or had his leg amputated or get amputated. I'm not sure but I saw on the news. Nothing man. This woman is brave. I mean the way she her attitude is just amazing. She's handling all of that but This is we're going to be in a new normal coming up in part of dealing with this is part of the is something we're going to have to do for a while now but anyhow. I wanted to get back in the air to get back black in the air. I'm in my office again at home so it may sound a little echoey near. Bolger is for that David Chang is on our show. Today we had a really good talk a little while ago and Restauranter famous chef his Mama Fu restaurants noodle bars in Manhattan and around the world and ugly delicious. You've seen him a net flicks his milk bar to all of that stuff. So we're going to talk about the restaurant business a little bit. How he's faring. Food Service Industry and all that kind of stuff man. He really has some some interesting thoughts on that so I was really looking forward to have on the shows and those really cool conversation but Anyhow so we are in a different. We aren't interesting situation. Now we've been dealing with the virus for a while we've been in kind of a sheltering in place. For how long has it been? Maybe a month longer six weeks. It's hard to know man. I've lost all track of time. It's very bizarre. Those of my time is spent with buster with my Doug Me and my son you know. We're chasing him around most of the time. My son is staying with me and he's doing well he's he's able to take classes online and everything. My daughter's staying with her with her mom and she's about to graduate from college right now. And you know wasn't able to have her graduation all the kind of stuff but she's been dealing with the pretty good she's Just finished her her thesis. Some real proud of row proud of you. Learn so yeah. So that's what we've been doing here and I realized right now at this point. I believe that we are truly in when I will call a both sides situation. We are both in and it's funny that the both sides are kind of most. Let me say this. Most people hate both sides. The heat that type of argument. This is not about the size type of argument all lives. Don't matter we're talking about black lives matter and I get it. I get it most of the Times. That is a valid argument but we were truly any build side situation right now here the both sides we are in a situation where they primary concern is the public health right. And how do we mitigate right now has been primary concern? How do we make sure that our hospitals don't get overwhelmed? There were smart about you know. There's so many things that we don't know about this virus that were smart as we possibly can about the possible ways to transmit sheltering in place isolating and all that stuff. Different cities have been taking different approaches to it and that has been our main concern properly so but now we're getting into a phase where cities are starting to loosen the restrictions in. We're going to have to get into a new way of living and some people are just looking at it as a reopening thing but I really. Don't you know I look at it as going to have to adjust to a new normal and this is also a very important piece right now. How are we going to get things back open? So people can get hopefully back into their jobs that they've lost or maybe get into new jobs. Economy can start going again and not just the economy going again but people can have means to make a living you know and part of this is not just reopening like I said but understanding how we're going to operate within the next year year and a half under a new normal. Both of these things are true right now in. Both these things are very very important. I don't pit them against each other. They're both important arguments. But it just really gets me when I see this being pitted against each other like like when people won't say how. How can you say we have to reopen when people are going to die and the other pirates? We're GONNA die if we don't reopening going against each other. This is the most ridiculous argument. That's going on out there and part of it. I think is fueled by some of these. I think reckless Governors or people who are just recklessly reopening things without seeming to have real plans about it and I blame a lot of this on the president by the way because I think the president has been so shameless in not having a clear direction for the country. He's only been reactive childlike childish. Imbo st and all these things has not come out with real leadership and even if the plans change at least to have certain guidance and true leadership. It's been the least amount possible in terms of guidance. So you know. Some of these states have different needs as they should. But the energy around this reopening as if they're some liberal conspiracy to crash the economy to keep people out of work because liberals want everybody to be on the government Dole or whatever which is ridiculous because that system will be unsustainable if we get this the way it is it will be unsustainable to try to have the government. Take care of this. The people who are concerned about this of course are concerned about the number of people that are dying by this virus. Because there's so much we don't know about it just the way that attacks the body the way that it hides out so I blame a lot of that energy. Both on the recklessness of some of these governors but also in the recklessness of outlets like Fox News where they're the ones that start with that type of conspiracy theory that somehow the leftist media in the leftist energy out. There wants to give you false information in. Doesn't want you to know the true story like they don't want you to know about hydroxy chloroquine and all that kind of stuff which is so fucking ridiculous. I'm so fucking fed up with Fox News right now. I mean I have been for a long time. But the poison that they put in people's minds about these conspiracy theories and how people how left is unpatriotic in the working you know to to undermine American all the stuff is so ridiculous and you know I don't believe in conspiracy theories they're very few there are so my whole of you know I say okay. Something happened there and I grant you but for the most part. They're ridiculous and the way that they they poison so many people's minds about wanting to believe in these conspiracy theories about how the left wants to road America is just so poisonous and it's really I think and abetting in people dying right now. Let me put it this way with the stupid president of the United States is is a waxing about injecting disinfectants into your body as a possible solution. Something which is so ridiculous. I mean I can't think of anybody at any age. Who would think that was possible? I can't imagine a five-year-old considering that as a possibility I mean it is one of the most stupid things I've ever seen and I know a lot of people have covered this and everything. But here's the other thing is the fact that the people who were drinking all of that kool-aid might think that the president is right. And that somehow information is being kept from US. Our disinfect into our body. The way to go. I don't know we can't trust the leftist media if they're saying that the president is wrong about that and maybe he's right. This is what we're up against right now. I mean how insane is that it drives me fucking crazy. President trump basically in my mind. He has just been a global embarrassment. A global embarrassment. When you think about presidencies and you know I like looking at the histories of presidencies and all that kind of stuff you know. And how presidents Braxton certain times and usually craigslist usually tell you who the president really is you know a really reveals character and man. Here's what's interesting about trump. We didn't need. The guy says to reveal his character. We already knew it. This crisis confirm his character. The level to which this emperor is naked is astounding to me and it's not even the emperor's naked is not even true now div for trump because not only is trump naked trump turns it around in the emperor's naked. All that emperor did was. He was in a bubble letting them going into your inner but that ever he was in a bubble and no one wanted to tell him that he was actually naked. When they you know you don't saying he was wearing all these things and the kids said he's naked but trump. It's not even an innocent bubble. Trump actually turns around and accuses. Other people being naked did this is what's crazy about. He's not content to just be in a bubble and have his sync offense telling him he leads beautiful. He's got to turn it around and say that everyone else is naked. Like it to me. It feels like in the way that he projects his own corrupt ideology unto the world. As if that's how the world thinks we're actually how he thinks and how his system is built. It's almost like instinctively. His fat body like on a cellular level is trying to reject all that corrosive orangeade coursing through its ecosystem. It has to project that unto the world in order to feel safe or normal or something you know if I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt of being a corrupt as home but he's just been an embarrassment and you know and the level to which the people around him and the level to which he needs to be right about things and try to feel like he's being an expert so fucking embarrassing. It's embarrassing it's so embarrassing. In the way that he demands that the people kiss up to him in a global pandemic. You guys this is. What's insane about it? It's magnified so many times now. This type of behavior like fact that Mike Pence because trump doesn't like people wearing masks goes to the male clinic and doesn't wear a mask and it looks like a fucking asshole you know. Fuck Mike Pence by the way fucking for walk into the male clinic without a man's the fucking disrespect he gave that entire place in. Those people was fucking disrespectful man. Fuck that motherfucker was crazy. I couldn't believe that you'll be a man at some point. Be a fucking man you know. Go BACK TO THE PRESIDENT. And his you wearing a mask mother fucker. I'm wearing a mask. Come in the mail fucking clinic. But the former supposed to do teases crazed I mean at some point. Don't you have to say that at some point? What's the worst that's going to happen? You're not going to be vice president. That would be fantastic. As opposed to lose in every ounce of of integrity. You might have left in your body for Christ sakes I guess the good part about some of where we are right now is that APPA local level is where the decisions are going to be mean. And that's probably a good thing because we really don't trump making these decisions you know and you kind of have to hope that your local municipality or county or state or whatever. The local people who are making the decisions are making the right ones. But you know I think we should be happy that it's in that position now so that's where we are right now and this going to be a day to day week to week thing we'll see what can happen but I do think that like Even going to restaurants. I talked about this with David coming up even going to restaurants. We're just GONNA have to get used to wearing masks for a long time. Not just for a couple of weeks. The people who think things have to get back to normal in a couple of weeks. Sorry that's not GonNa Happen. Things have to think I think things should get to a new normal. You know very quickly but there's no way things again and go back to normal at least for a long time. It's kind of the situation that we're in an. Let's hope we can stop fighting on both sides of this issue and just understand together him that we gotta do this as a as a unit and Kinda rebuild things step-by-step and piece by piece all right. That's my rant. We Got David Chang coming up and that's all I got all right. Welcome back. I'm very pleased to have. Let's just say father? How about that but famous restaurant or chef you know from Noodle bar all his restaurants around the world. He's the ugly delicious man Dave Chang. Welcome to blacken the David. Larry honored to be here. Thanks for having me Manda Honors. All Mine Man You made a splash from the beginning when you hit the scene back in the day in Manhattan and You just haven't stop since then and really been one of those awesome great voices out there in the world of food you know. It's really cool to see out in the world man very cool. Yeah it's been a crazy ride. Never never thought it even to this point at all zero. Yeah I can imagine. I WanNa talk about that a little later some of your beginnings but let's talk about the situation right now first of all. How are you holding up during all of this? I know people that do what you do. And what I mean specifically about owning restaurants. Let's talk about that in the the actual act of owning a restaurant like how is how is that part of your business doing right now while we've been shut down for six weeks trying to work diligently at the day. We can reopen up and figuring out how to take care of employees that we had a furlough. And it's it's hard to have hope but that's what we have to have and remind ourselves every day that we have to make them possible happen. And and that's that's actually what's keeping me. Optimistic is if we try to take any paradigm or patterns that we worked in the past or used in the past to move forward. It's not gonNA work and and the common thread and I don't think it's just the restaurant industry. Is You know we have to find ways to make the things that we never thought possible possible now and there's no more cats and I wouldn't or that's impossible. That's not part of the lexicon in our restaurant. Even though we try to we say all the time we got to remind ourselves because we have a lot of safety protocol. We have to figure out. We have opportunity to remedy and fix a lot of the systematic problems that were in the restaurant business beforehand and at the end of the day. I almost put restaurants right now at a much lower level of importance. And it's about trying to help the people that were struggling before covert nineteen in the restaurant and not in the restaurant universe and we're closed. We have restaurants in a variety of places Many restaurants you have right now like four size restaurants where like fifteen of them and we decided to be overly cautious on safety. We have you know when it all happened. Because I've been following this for awhile. High Friends in Asia. And they've been keeping up to date and I've been I'm a hyper paranoid person to begin with so we're trying to win scenarios before all this. We're getting nervous in January when you were first hearing about this or did it seem so far away. It didn't seem like it would be a deal. Both I think we were prepared and not prepared half because we just opened up in Las Vegas too so a lot of my mind was getting done in an filming show too so not run the day to day of the Operations Marguerite Merit Scholars. And I needed a sort out that first and foremost and so you know we can only do so much and I wish we were better prepared. I think everybody wishes they were better prepared. But the plans that we had laid out. Were not enough. You know no real question. They weren't enough. It seems to me David when this first started the shutdown like I feel people had a sense that maybe be like people had to be fertile for a week and a half or two weeks that was like even though we didn't quite know what was going on. It felt like there was a sense that maybe it wouldn't last that long. I feel like we were all in a state of denial at first. Yes does that feel right? Yeah one hundred percent I. I was in. Denial and I was very very paranoid to like anybody like I was freaking out but also in denial simultaneously. And doing whatever you could to prepare and you know with Korea getting hit and having friends that operate restaurants there Shanghai and Hong Kong. I immediately saw that. There was a shift in how Asia as a whole is going to handle this epidemic a pandemic because they had SARS before and Moore's book and they were reading more readily prepared. And you know I don't know and I'm I'm really trying to sort out why. I was in denial even though I was Freaking out any sense to me because I think I just didn't know if you don't want to raise the alarm so much that people think you're a tin foil wearing tinfoil great right right exactly. I think some of it is and this is gonNA sound weird but some of it. I think is American privilege to be honest with you. It's like we don't feel something that bad. It's going to happen to us. I think there's something about us. That just feels that whether right or wrong like we really haven't been attacked on our shores outside of Pearl Harbor People in other countries have been like vicious attacks that got any like we were really in a bubble sometimes and I think this is the first time something this big. I mean nine eleven kind of pierced our consciousness because that was this attack that happened and we felt like how could that happen to people were shattered? I remember right after that and this kind of has their feeling of it were. There was such a denial in the beginning. Because I think it felt like how can how can something be so bad to us Well that was my benchmark was nine eleven right like and that's when I knew things were going to get bad Pretty Pretty Soon I. I just roughly calculated my head in the restaurant industry then when September eleventh happened no I actually worked in Japan for a year and then came back and then worked for Daniel Balloon and when I came back in the summer of two thousand three hospitality industry was still hurting from September eleventh. Right that's two years plus for tours to get back to normal and then it did and that just was south of Fourteenth Street. A lot of restaurants who are affected ask people weren't coming back in numbers because I was working reside so I was like well if that was just localized there but this is now simultaneously happened. The world over you know tourism as a whole may not come back for quite some time until there's a vaccine so I was just trying to tracy imagine it's great that we have all of these scenarios planned out. What's the extreme? How do we define the spectrum by defining the ends of these things right so worst case scenario best case scenario and then best-case scenarios? We'd have to have a vaccine. I was like. Oh that's minimum. I don't know how long out now so I was like. We need to prepare ourselves for a year. Plus how do we do that? Yeah a lot of it is Just dealing with the dark there's some people astounding friend of mine. Who said she feels like? She can't plan anything right now. I mean anything. And that's kind of shocking. You think about that. I mean it feels like you can make. Maybe you know workout scenarios for things but in terms of planning when you take traveling out of the equation of your life. It's amazing. How just closes off almost everything right? So much of the restaurant industry is about travel to right. It's funny it's to think about that was like Oh my God. We were in an incredibly difficult business. Beforehand with high rates of attrition. Exactly and now this is. This is the hardest battle to have. If we're a business so I will say though it's a little bit different You know having seen in talk to not seen but zooming like we are now restaurant tours and shafts across the country a New York City. I'm just outside New York right. Now is by far the worst? There's no way to be worse than move on. Well we are and how you think about think about that. It's crazy. People were like almost joking about John and the measures they were taking. Yeah from America's perspective and we're in some ways a lot worse and it's crazy to think in New York and what's happening in New York is going to be very different than the rest of the country because of the density what made New York so vibrant great and gave it strength. They're now working against it and really agree. Yeah there's restaurants that are open for takeaway delivery and in the West Coast and everywhere like you know. We have a restaurant in Los Angeles. We've decided not to do it because this is the. This IS THE MORAL DILEMMA. So for me you know about the trolley car problem familiar with that so like I. I studied all the stuff in college. I don't know why remember it at all but they you know teaching moral philosophy class so okay effectively. You're you're in a position where train or trolleys coming through and you have a vantage point to see that if left on its own train tracks. It's GONNA kill like five people in there or you have a lever right to your your handing if you press that it'll veer left and only one person and these are extreme academic sort of scenarios but I was very upset most chefs that I knew felt like they were having to make this in real time and closing. The restaurant was difficult and then reopening the restaurants because everybody wants to help. Everybody wants to do charity work. But we have. It's just a lot more complicated than it seems to be so we wanted to over index on being safe so we closed. We've had a lot of false starts about reopening for charity and to do takeaway and delivery but it's a little bit more difficult in New York and even though in L. A. Lot of our managers are married with children share or a couple of wives work so there's daycare issue. So how do you work and maybe do an act of good only to potentially bring back something home because we don't have safety protocol for the government and we don't have the and there's a lot of things that are up in the air and we're going to do our best to make sure no one gets this in dice Oracle incredibly sick? It's just not worth it so I don't have those answers so yes we could. Our restaurant in L. A. is perfectly situated to do. But we've got to do it where everyone feels comfortable safe here. The the other philosophical construct is you know restaurants are shouting druce cat right now. They're both open closed at the same time you know. It's like an even the notion of opening them. Half full to me isn't quite a solution because you're almost setting up failure most restaurants if they say all you can have as half the business. Can you survive like so? Our model is based on capacity. Larry if it's ninety percent total failure rate now so I mean it feels like almost like imposing this and you know what's interesting too when you talk about New York like people that haven't been in restaurants in New York have no idea that every other restaurant and the country already feels like their social distancing when you compare right because you're already sitting on top of each other the New York style of restaurant you know it's not just New York Chicago like grand kids the great chef and Nicolaas. They're they're great right now and part of it is they were had their world class organization. But I think the biggest thing that they have to their advantage was they can drive to work and they have the space in space and being able to get to work safely as a huge thing and are people that are successful and we're going to get there and hopefully help lead the way for everyone else to get there but it's not a race this marathon and wearing like the first mile and and I don't think there's a first mover advantage right now but going back to this trolley car problem. The alternative problem was if we SORTA save and be safe here. Are we if we're so worried about safety? Are we jeopardizing the safety of the people that were trying to save by putting them out there at home unfortunately like are we just couldn't afford to pay everyone there? There's just we just don't have the ability to do that. And it's been difficult and I don. I want to take that with grain of salt like there. Are People out there. They're much more difficult. Things and hard drives. I'm just saying the problem. And the conundrum of like how do you do it? Where someone wins. The restaurant business people that want everyone to win. And when you have to make a decision knowing that someone's GonNa lose it sucks and most people have kind of a one dimensional view of restaurants. You know where you go in and there's people that serve you you know and there's somebody that cooks the food but the whole chain of people that are involved in the whole restaurant businesses huge you know and all of that is being affected right now right. Yeah I mean which is why you know. Too Small to fail is the same result is too big to fail. And even though we're not banks restaurants are eclectic diverse as everyone's aware of you in La you have Taco trucks to Taco shops and high end tacos and just talking about tacos right. It's everything it's so diverse and within diversity at all support these ecosystem in culture and in we're not financial banks but we're like cultural banks for society and culture because ninety percent of the revenue that's generated by restaurant goes back outon world on average. So if you're florist if you're a baker if you're collect trash if you're fishmonger you make you know meet deliveries whatever. The entire sort of universe seems is tied to restaurants restaurants can function look at. What's happening right now with an Idaho with the potatoes? Yeah and onions. Like they're just having to throw them away because not crazy aren't going to restaurants. Then there's it's not about supply to the grocery stores is usually a much. We need restaurants to be around and when that shuts down. That's why Larry I get so angry and concerned about what's going on and I hope that when we all look back on this twenty fifty years. Now it'll be seen as the people that were most important where the people that were being neglected all and and it's the Food Service Worker. The the the busboy. The dishwasher the fact that the market is almost three thousand on the SNP is an indicator of just what I think we value in this country right now. We don't really care too much about the people that actually have to menial labor and tasks and it's essential and we're going to see that and the government is doing their best. I know that I can't believe I can say that. But I know they're trying some people let me just say that but they have no choice because if they don't do it it's going to get really ugly. Yeah you know. It's interesting to see you know when Tyson made that announcement early this week about. They're concerned about the food. Chain being disrupted and having to all the union see all these stories of cattle having to be slaughtered. There's no place for this food to go. Meanwhile People San Line at food banks you know in their cars and things like that you know. We assume Tyson Tyson was sort of the problem. They created this bottlenecks so they can control it and this is this is what happens right so as a whole. I think food. I just wouldn't that. Can you explain that a little bit? More work entirely dependent and reliant upon like a handful of giant meat producers. If this was a system that was more dependent on local farms and co OPS. It wouldn't be this way right so when everyone controls one thing. And there's a lot of it's the distribution channels. It's of course it's going to go sideways Tyson. Unfortunately it's perishable product and we're talking about Obama lives but I actually. I am hopeful that all of these things will be addressed in the coming months to make sure that it doesn't happen again because shame on us once right like we. We can't do this two times in a row and you know the the whole food system even going back to our unfortunate president right about what you eat. And so important right how he treats immigrants right the Shithole countries as he says and all these people like Mexican food. For instance example. If he if he doesn't care about them as people why is he gonNa care about the food that they eat and the many many people that have restaurants that feed these people that he makes fun of or just doesn't care about and that's the problem is we need to make sure that these are the institutions that are going to be safe because they are cultural institutions? And I hope to God that we do something and I actually don't know if the government's going to believe the private companies of this world The googles the facebooks the ABM. They have to do this because if they lose what makes America so really great. Then it's going to be dark times and Dave always You always kind of highlighted culture and food and mix them together. You know in in your Netflix shows and the way you talk about food culture too it feels like from my point of view that to you culture and food are inextricably mixed in a year and it feels like I feel like a lot of small restaurants around the country made just begun. You know in a lot of the culture that associated with some of those restaurants. Is You know like that's a huge issue with with these things not being able to survive. I saw an interview. You did where you talked about. Only the people that have cashing and be able to survive. Are you concerned about some of these small restaurants and future? I am deathly concern. And you know the P P P and you know if I had to do it if the government had do it all over again. They should've just let the first people that got money to be fifty thousand two hundred thousand tops. Absolutely I mean the Lakers got eight million dollars or whatever. It was a huge fan of Lakers. What are you doing asking for money? This is crazy. Four point six. And that's how much Lakers got so was too much you know I we applied in. We're still waiting to hear back. And I think the second tranche is GonNa Hopefully I. This is what I believe. I actually think that there's no other choice because the government is going to have to make sure that everybody gets something and if it doesn't that's a total failure and it's also embarrassing. That other countries are doing amazing jobs Canada Denmark. Uk are doing not just giving money to employees. They're really trying their best to save the Industry. And we're just doing a shameful job of it in America so far so you know we need to give. We need to give all kinds of loans to restaurants for them to survive but simultaneously. You know some of the questions. I've been having behind the scenes as you know. The hard question is what kinds of restaurants are going to survive right exactly. That's what I'm saying. You know and some are just going to be gone. You can do about it because you can only be closed for so long like a lot of this is just unsustainable. Even from the government's point of view government can't continue to print money and give it out. I mean there's an implosion coming up that you know really really worries me about the ability of many things that are in our culture going away you know and I mean Larry I I just I don't know what to do. I mean all I know we need to get this done on the health care front. I straight we need to be able to limit the virus and and getting back to some level. Yeah but my focus is. How do we get safety protocol for the restaurants themselves? There's too many people that are working in not safe environments right now because the government's let them down on protocol like yeah. I'll just give you a simple example. Like bleach solution is what most restaurants have. How do you know if bleach works? I think it's still does and to. Cdc says that but they can put out these things but it's it's it's much more complicated in that. Most bleach solutions have a sponge or a towel in this bucket. Are we even allowed to do that anymore? Or it doesn't have to be a disposable towel and that seems like something very simple but it's not because now every time you have to throw something away you're adding incremental cost and think about this like restaurants are GonNa have to have masks right definitely. Do we know if homemade bass going to be okay while cooking food and other mask intended to protect the person wearing the mask or the people who they're serving or IM- embarked or the food that they're cooking food is their transmission. That can happen in food or on plates can be on a plane like I feel like all of these are questions that are out there. So we're going to be fine. I mean we're we're doing our best to find ways to stay afloat and and honestly like I don't even care about this certain sector restaurants including my own. I do obviously would love to reopen up. Take care of everybody. That's not like I'm not trying to sound like a sociopath they're just simply saying like if we have problems. Everyone else of group of our size and caliber has problems then man like what about the restaurant that I love to eat on the on the on the MK Town. That doesn't know how to do all these things and the other concern that we're going to have very pragmatically is on the protective personal protective equipment. It's GonNa be expensive. Yeah how do we subsidize this cost? We have to find a way to give it to the Black Community Latino community people that haven't has sort of been neglected all along because the last thing we want to do is be like a restaurant accustomed being like when things are open yeah. I'M NOT GONNA go to that restaurant because I don't think they're safe with their food. Well right because they don't want to be safe maybe they can't afford it and that's fucked up Larry. Yeah it absolutely is and they always get served. The last you know to mix a metaphor. You know the other thing when we're talking about culture and food like when I think of Korean food and sometimes of how people are are you have the Abacha's at your table or your cooking at your table and that sort of thing or you know. I don't know how that culture is GonNa Change Canal. You know people are GonNa feel safe doing that type of thing you know and there's a lot of that there's a lot out of the world you know that type of eating may go away. You know you know. The reality is fast food giant food fast food corporations are going to benefit and they have benefited because king in this in this age. One hundred percent because they don't you don't have to taste the food to begin with. It's already set and I when when independent restaurants open back up again. They're going to have to raise prices. And there's going to be a bigger discrepancy than ever before with say a big Mac which is not going to have to raise their price and you know. I'm sorry I'm not trying to make people depressed about this. This is what I roommate Sunday. This is important stuff. Where is the Tanzanian that we're in? You know. Let me ask you this? Do you think this will change? What people eat? Because it's going to change how we eat but I wonder like when I was thinking about the whole Tyson thing and when you're looking at some of these images and stuff do you think what people eat is going to change for better for worse. I think two things are going to happen. I hope people are gonna be cooking at home. Obviously they're gonNA get better cooks. They're definitely doing that. Friend of Mine Lilly Kwong. She's she's she's been trying her best to bring back. Victory Gardens and and Victory Gardens were in the UK and America where in World War One and World War Two. Yes everyone just had a start growing their own food who's incurs plots of land that the community food. I think we're going to go back to that. I really do and gardens are going to be more important than ever before so but again not everybody but I do believe that we're going to have to do that but I think what people are going to eat for sure is is going to change because restaurants for the most part are going to be takeaway delivery so a lot of the meals you're going to have to make might be made yourself with like a ninety percent of it done by a restaurant that is until we have a vaccine but I do think too that I wonder when Tyson's and the in the in the big meat producers of the world's say there could be scarcity or problems. I wonder if they're telling the truth because maybe they WANNA get intervention. Maybe THEY WANNA get help from the government's more than I don't know I just I find that whole world to shadiest Fox so I think we should have supply chains. I do know that one of the top priorities for the government is to protect the food distribution centers that are located at throughout this country and to make sure that we have enough food and so far. I think they've done a good job at that I just think we're going to have to figure out what is lifelike without dining in a restaurant. Do you have an opinion about wet markets and and that sort of thing that's happening now like there's a lot of concern about it because people felt that in. Wuhan maybe the virus could have been spread there. And there's some of those that are here in this country to. What did you have an opinion about that I do but it's not like a real opinion? It's it's I think that they're going to. China should ban all of the things that could transmit corona virus. But you know what market sort of has this like terrible like I duNno. It just doesn't sound very good. It's a wit but but it's part of culture in Asia. That's how food gets made. There's usually like like water running or not. That's not water running but like things get washed down and things get killed there in the moment in. There's different kinds of markets in. I don't know if you have them in Asia it's it's Y- I mean I've spoken to some of my friends about it. They imagine like they're just slaughtering a jungle in there. And that's the case. There's there's normal things that you would normally see. It's just also you know I've never seen that stuff before you know but I know that there have been some. But I wouldn't be surprised if China clamp down on that finally as it should be the sale of endangered species and animals and you know if it is the bat like Faulk Man Mike Man. I would have so looking forward to bat. Burger to going out the window As this change your idea of of what you WanNa do personally in your in your career at this point has created a big shift for you. I mean it's been I mean I'm really having this conversation actively within my my brain damage I mean very honestly like I talked to March or CEO on a daily basis and You know their days were like I don't know if I can do like. How do you do this and I never want to be put in a position where why bill something up if you can't take care of everybody and there's definitely been thoughts of like you know? I mean even a good moments. I think I quit every five minutes. I just do. Certainly there's been a lot more of that thought but I always come back to some kind of normal where I'm like. No no we gotta keep going to better the lives. We gotta do this right and the hard part is you. Don't really have an answer. And that's what makes it hard. It's a it's a you know like I've I'm a firm believer in you know cameras rebellion against the existential dread. The best thing is to reject yourself and do something good right life better for other people. I and the hard thing to see like what is that good right now and Chad is the hope. And if you can't have that hope it makes it really hard because the last thing you want to do is build something up. I thought we've done our best to make Momofuku very like strong. Great Place with Bob but we failed. I'm mad at myself more than anyone could ever imagine. Because we weren't able to prepare for this and to better protect the interest of employees. And we're really thinking about this long and hard about. How do we do this? How do we? How long can we continue to Pay Cobra? How long like all these things are really problematic. And you know what's the point of restaurants if there's no restaurants restaurant my culture anymore so yeah if these are normal thoughts and I'm not trying to bum anyone out here but I'm having doubts just like anyone else but I promise I'm not going to quit. I'm just telling you. It's been a very arduous struggle daily struggle of like. I just need a glimmer of hope. That's all I have to get me through this. But you're very introspective about. This is interesting because I remember reading an interview with you. I think it was a long time ago. Where think you're talking about how you fell into some of that pattern of you know how we see? The stereotypical angry boss in the kitchen type of thing. You know the abusive type of relationship and you talked about how your relationship growing up was. You're always yelled at and that's kind of the culture now. Do you think having gone through this and I'm sure over the years you. I'm sure there's been a balloon but has this changed you in terms of how you feel about your relationship with the people who are who worked for you and within Actually I don't think this has changed that at all. I think that changes the long long time coming and and a lot of that was just maturity and and you know we were supposed to have this book come out next month but I think it's GonNa be number but I will talk a lot about that struggle that growth and if I didn't have you know you know if I didn't have a psychiatrist so much not not not just dealing with my depression. It was a lot of dealing with my anger and nobody. Nobody should be foods not important enough to make someone feel bad And that's the biggest lesson I learned. I learned along the way that I'm a fucking asshole and there's no reason to be that so I have to do my best not to go down those default settings mind but as a whole this this corona virus Cova nineteen epidemic has just showed me how fragile this whole thing is what is genuinely important and how we treat everybody. Moving forward is it has to be more on the economic thing. It's like how do we get rid of tips? How do we make sure that you've paid leave? How do we make sure that we can? We Afford Hauser. Pay Right like these are the things that I feel like. I am actually focusing my efforts because I think the maturation process of me is never going to be complete. I feel like how I treat. People has gone a lot better. It can always be better and my focus during corona virus has certainly been. How do we make sure we never in this position again? And how do we make sure that employees are going to be prepared for this? Yeah I think that's great How do what do you think we can do? The people who support these businesses on one support. I have many friends who are in this business. I live here in Pasadena California and has some friends in the restaurant business. They're really hurting because they have small businesses. You know and you try to support but it's not the same takeout as it is going there and Yordan drinks honest the culture of it. What are some of the ways that we can help from the outside or is there anything that we can do? Well first of all will be joining you in Pasadena we. We've been trying to do this for a while. But grace's parents are lived there and no great come on over here. It's a little bit hard to travel right now but WE'RE GONNA figure it out but in terms of what you can do to support the restaurant. I think you can buy gift certificates. Just don't use them right now. You can support restaurants. Have A gofundme page. I'm going to tell you a story. We had widely defined on a podcast. When he'll tell you this story and I'm just GonNa shortened version of it great. He has a donut shop in Brooklyn. He hadn't been there and five plus weeks. He had to pick up some supplies to feed his family and And just other stuff for kitchen stuff and you know. He lives in Connecticut and he came in and the knees up gathering all the supplies and he has a knock on the door and everything's boarded up and he knocks and it's as dishwasher. Dishwasher says chef like your back and he's like yeah what are you doing here? How'd you know his here? He's like Oh. I come here every day at this time on my bicycle. So it's like he's like you you've been here everyday since we've closed you know five plus weeks ago. He's like yeah it's like. I CAN'T AFFORD MY CELL BILL. My Cell Phone Bill and I don't have Internet so I just have to come here physically to see if we're gonna be open and that just that's like the saddest fucking story and that's a real story and that's happening all over this country people that don't have enough to even get the information about things that we take for granted and you know why has it go. Fund me page. You should check it out. It's dues donuts and that's how you can do it. You can put money if the government won't do it. You can put money directly into the pockets of employees and yes. There's been a lot of issues that go package restaurants. I mean you have to trust that. All the charities go directly back employee's as it should but that's what you can do is help. Put money directly into the pockets of employees. That need it and I think that's the only thing we can do right now is to make sure that they have the basic needs of shelter of food of comfort and health. You know yeah opening. The restaurants are really not that important right now. They are with people. And we need enough restaurants to keep employed. Not also just add. There seems to be with this weird again like if I was twenty six years old. Twenty seven years old. I'd be open right now. They're doing it myself and I'd be you know donating meals and doing whatever I could to make this all work but my life isn't like that anymore and that's another thing that everyone has to keep in mind is like just because someone can't do something doesn't mean like their hearts not doing You know it's just a complicated mess of a situation and you can go down that rabbit hole forever but the thing that we can do. Is You know for sure that people are suffering? You can donate to the food banks you can donate to the Lien initiative which is started by chef in Kentucky. And they're giving aid and assistance to hospitality workers. All you have to do. Show Your W. Two form in Los Angeles Squirrel right now. Is doing that program so if you work in the hospitality industry and you need food to live off of bring your W. Two of your last paycheck and they'll give you supplies and there are a lot of programs and I think if you really love your restaurant? Just give them money. There's a local restaurant you love. If they don't have a gofundme page set it up for them. Yeah that's Great Idea. Really really great idea And Food Banks. I think are a good thing for people to donate to as well right. Yeah I'm on the board of a couple Credibly important more so than ever. And you know the ringers. Obviously we were doing a lot with Jose and the world's central kitchen is so vital to feed them right now and twenty two plus cities in growing so there are a lot of the just just know that people are in need and worse off than you are right now and and this is the time to to to pay for it if there was a time absolutely completely. What very well said David. Thank you so much for being here. I want to end. Maybe a nice person on a you know we can hear. Your son is Hugo she. He's downstairs he was just he was eating and like the only place where. I can record this entertainment. That's great one. Let's see how is being a father affected you personally through all this in in just life in general has been a big change for you you know. We did ugly delicious episode that covered some of it. But yeah that's right. You did the baby episode. But then it's I don't know if it's making me be the best version of myself into truly. If there's been one benefit to being quarantined it's being able to spend time with them to to not have to rush home to make sure that I I have some you know few minutes and to see him grow up too. I was able to see his first steps as a child and I make his food. I make all his meals. And that's been great and yeah if there's one person that's having a great time right now in quarantine it's my son. That's so great that's us. He's loving and he's got his grandparents here. We're all stuck in this this place. But he's he's having a grand time and easy way worse. Yeah it's like my dog Bester Buster's having the time of his life right now. He's getting all this attention Eddie. He's just really enjoying it. Which like good you best. They laugh it up. And you deserve it you David once again. Thanks so much I appreciate a man I appreciate all your your words on the subject You know even though it's got it's tougher meat even talk about some of the stuff right now. There's so many people that are in need right now and I. I can fill all your emotions behind this. I know how invested you are not just in the industry of having restaurants but in the business of Feeding People. Lino and how important food is in our culture. I really appreciate you talk with me. Today isn't any other last words you have. Maybe when save out there? Yeah I'll say this and I might have said this before but again I talked to Dr Jim Kim. He was one of the founders in partners of health and he was the president of the World Bank and he's now helping out Massachusetts and in contact tracing and really going on the offensive for this. I just want to reiterate what he told me. And it's going to be on our podcast. But he basically said you know. We have to make them possible happen. Let me just reiterate that it's like this is not going to happen by having a mediocre solution we man the best possible outcomes and reverse engineer without taking any compromises but this has got to be one on the healthcare front. I and I'm not an expert in that but I can't restaurants and tell our medical system our nurses and doctors and everyone that's fighting this virus on the front lines can actually get this done. I so like we're sort of helpless. We can't really open our doors until the medical system can really be successful out this so you know we need to do whatever we can to support them because once they get that done then we can get a little bit busier and get the ball rolling. But that's my biggest thing helping out however I can on those fronts. Well said David Chang for being black in the air really appreciate it take care of yourself man and uh really hope for the best for all your ventures thanks.

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Chef David Chang

Fresh Air

49:08 min | Last week

Chef David Chang

"This message comes from. npr sponsor. Ibm when deciding how and when to safely return to the workplace. You need to be informed. That's why ibm watson helps you. Prioritize employee safety with watson works visit. Ibm dot com slash. Watson works to learn more from whyy in philadelphia. I'm terry gross with fresh air today. David chang who has won james beard awards as a chef and restaurant tour. His first and best known restaurant is momofuku. The food was influenced by the food. He grew up with who they used to embarrass him. His parents are from north korea. He's opened restaurants in new york. La vegas toronto and australia. He's had to close a couple because of the pandemic he's had bipolar disorder for many years and credits cooking and his restaurants with saving his life later will listen back to my nineteen eighty nine interview with travel writer memoir east and historian jan morris. She died last friday. She was ninety four when she started writing. She was known as james mars. She completed transition surgery in nineteen seventy-two and wrote about it in nineteen seventy four memoir conundrum. My guest david. Chang is one of the most celebrated chefs restaurant tours in america because of the pandemic he's had to shut down some of his restaurants and rethink the others. His first restaurant momofuku was named the most important restaurant in america by bone. Apetite in two thousand thirteen. It opened in two thousand and four and a small storefront in manhattan is and became known for rama noodles pork bones and it's casual atmosphere since. Then chang open more than a dozen restaurants in new york. La vegas. toronto and australia is one five. James beard awards including best new restaurant and outstanding chef. He hosts the netflix series ugly delicious which focuses on foods and the cultures or mix of cultures that they derive from he's also written a memoir called. Edp each as you'd expect. The book is filled with insights about food and restaurants but he also shares his insights about himself. His parents emigrated from north korea. When china was growing up he was embarrassed by the foods. They ate and how their kitchen small different from the kitchens of his friends families he has. Bipolar disorder has frequently dealt with suicidal thoughts and credits cooking and his restaurants with saving his life. Thank you again. David for being here. So david you have so many restaurants. How many have you had to close because of covid and how many are open. Well first of all terry. It's a real honor to be part of your show and It's a hopefully people learn something about the restaurant business for myself but in terms of the restaurants that we've had to close we've closed to in one in washington. Dc one in new york city. And we've had to temporarily relocate another so all in sort of three and hopefully that number doesn't increase. How are the ones that you're keeping open managing to stay open. Because i think what you have to say we'll be indicative of what other lot of other restauranteurs would say. Well it's a little bit difficult right now Because it's weather dependent as winter is hitting most of the east coast and outdoor dining was a a great boon to everyone but as winter approaches. It's a little bit hard. You're talked a lot appears. Sales have gone down quite a bit and at the beginning of the pandemic Those that were doing delivery and pivoted to delivery focused menu really did well but when everybody pivoted to that cell sorta decrease so We're all in this together and we're all trying to figure it out and our restaurants do the same. We're we're doing anything and everything To to stay afloat and to keep as many jobs as possible but we've had the advantage of having consumer product goods over the past few months. We've been selling salt and spices and soy sauce that we've developed over the past decade plus so we had that plan in place but not everyone is fortunate to have that are you doing. We're like delivery. And how does it feel to be doing. What would you like. what don't you like about it. i I've always wanted to do delivery. You try to deliver your failed. They did they did. Maybe the timing wasn't right. I think it would have been a a great opportunity now but i. I'm fascinated with delivery because it's another way for restaurants to sort of have a revenue stream. And i feel very strongly seven eight years ago that if we didn't diversify restaurants in general didn't diversify. We were too dependent on the income of the four walls. The happening in restaurants so as much as i don't always want to have restaurants that deliver food. We all have to embrace it. I think it's here to stay and it was going to happen. A lot of what's happening right now with restaurants we're going to happen was going to happen over. Attended fifteen year period. But we wouldn't have notice all this seismic shifts with restaurants closing and restaurants. Moving to delivery or take away would have happened so gradually. You wouldn't have noticed but delivery and food logistics with your smartphone. That's here to stay. And we have to find a better way because right now a lot of restaurants. You've been making money doing that. Because of the delivery fees from the the people that do the delivery services aren't taking big cut when you started in the restaurant business Well you studied at the french culinary institute you worked at cafe glued is fine dining authentic french cuisine kind of fancy restaurant in new york. And you decided that you weren't cooking the kind of food that you eat and so you decided to give up on that kind of fine dining What was the turning point for you in deciding that that wasn't few because a lot of chefs aspire to that kind of fine dining And you you headed in the other direction. We'll tell you. I was just so lost. I didn't know what i was doing. And i think if i was better at cooking and compared to my peer group especially the restaurants i was in. Maybe i would have only cook french food. But so much of how. I've wound up today was because i didn't sort of fit in and i've had to find my way and get some kind of expertise that no one else had and one of the reasons i wanted to get out of french. Dining was or a fine dining in general was traveling abroad and for me the piff any was. Oh my gosh. In asia in japan in a city like tokyo so expensive. I i never would have thought that people of all sort of whether you're poor or rich everyone can eat really well in china. When i was in china you could eat literally on seventy five cents very well. But you couldn't do that in america and i. I thought to myself if you wanted to enjoy food in america in the late nineties early arts if you told anybody i like to go out to dine that was seen as elitist and snob est. And that wasn't the case outside of the world. And that's when i tried to imagine what's the delta here in america right wise food only accessible or delicious for the people that can afford it. Why don't we have a little bit more accessible. So what was the secret to figuring out what kind of food you can cook. That would be delicious and very affordable well again in japan two different times live there Rahman was something that i. I've always grown up eating noodles. But rahman was something that was the providence of college students and twenty five cup of noodles. And when i i was so lucky with timing and so many things in my life i saw japan. Even this renaissance of robin where it was as the fervor voronin was like pizza and barbecue and hamburgers combine. And i was like wait i tasted. It's like nothing i've ever had before people queuing up for two to three hours of certain spots but why this doesn't exist in america and i was like well. I bet you this would be popular in america too. That's why i was like okay. Let me just try to do something. That doesn't really exist quite yet in america and i didn't know if it's going to work you had to make the rahm special cylinder do i didn't make it. Japanese use only american ingredients. Because i too much respect for japanese ingredients and also i couldn't afford it either. The very best stuff in japan is going to be very expensive. So i wanted a tailor. It so is a little bit more of an american palate. So we used bacon from tennessee. Madisonville tennessee alan. Benton was our analogy for analogous ingredient to say katsuyoshi the central ingredient to dashi in japanese cuisine. So we just tried to mix and match and find things that were comparable and also not skimping on quality. We were getting the very best bacon and making a profit out of that so it was. It was trial and error. I say some interesting things about authenticity. You know like you're not you're not into authenticity. And i want you to explain why you're talking about borrowing from asian food but making it american and not calling it fusion. Well everything is sort of fusion anyways. But i just. That was a word that i've sort of had as a burden to sort of carry now. Embraced it because everything is fusion and It is the polar opposite of what authenticity is in food and i find authenticity to be very stifling. Very it's about preserving one idea one way of deliciousness. And i think that can be a very dangerous thing. You know what is acceptable. And what isn't and who gets to decide. That is scared to me. And that's not to say that authenticity can't be delicious but the but the only way you can make a certain food that is problematic to me and the only time i find authenticity to be good is when you have to preserve a culture you have to preserve stories that are helping immigrated from another culture those are things that need to be cherished and we need that kind of authenticity. But what i love about. Food is diversity. I love change and anything that you eat that was quote unquote. Authentic wasn't before it was an amalgamation of different stories in different immigrant stories. Like that's what's beautiful about food. It can be anything and everything. And i love the new. And that's what makes american cuisine. So wonderful it can be anything. And i wanted to try to do something new so a lot of your food has a korean influence even though it's not like authentic korean food But when you were growing up. I think korean food was real source of embarrassment to you. You were embarrassed by by your kitchen. Smelled kids used to make fun of you for. How did your kitchen smell on. What made it smell that way. Man growing up. My kitchen smelled a lot lot of different things. I remember tripe if you've ever cooked tripe at home and kills. Oh man my mom. My mom used to make trump all the time. And that's just not something you anybody's going to want to like smell or taste explain. Explain what type is a kind is a stomach lining their several stomachs account. It's it's a basically the stomach of a cow stomach lining of a cow and it has a very peculiar smell and it can be made very delicious. But you know it wasn't just try it for the most part it was something like kimchi or all the fermented goodness in korean cuisine. And even something. Now that people love today is keen the korean seaweed snack that you can even buy at your convenience store or pharmacy. I see being sold. I remembering that to school for lunch because i loved it. I snack on my entire life but as a kid you open up your lunch box and you bring out something that looks like that seaweed. Imagine in one thousand nine hundred eighty four kids. What is that. And you say it seaweed. They're like ooh that's gross. That's the nice version of people making fun of your food. Wait till they smell. Kimchi dang john or any of these from minted. Goodness things that people would make fun of me and they said every possible. And it's not just korean food terry. It's a story that anyone. That's an immigrant to america can share right. It's all the foods that most people have no idea but now in twenty twenty everybody finds delicious so it's just funny how it all plays out. So both of your parents are from north korea and they. I mean they're family. Lived before the north and the south became separate entities. And i think your grandfather was alive when japan invaded korea on basically tried to make korea into a satellite of japan. Have everybody assimilated into japanese culture. You thought you were eating. Korean food was japanese food or korean food or some mix of the two. It was a mix but my grandfather came from a wealthy family. My father came for like nothing. My mother came from a very prominent family and like many. Well do young men. He was educated to be japanese. He didn't like korean food. You went to college in higher education. All in japan and you know japan colonized korea like systematically tried to program anything that was like from the language on up to the food that you make or eat so my did not like korean food at all. He didn't he never ate kimchi. He never ate that things so he always had japanese things made for him. I was introduced to japanese food at a very early age. Threw him and i think it's a main why. I have such an affinity for japanese food because my grandfather was basically you know. He's korean. spokesman had korean friends but like in his heart think is more japanese than he was korean. And when i came back from japan and japan was much better back then. He was so proud that he could talk. Speak japanese to be so happy when your parents emigrated from north korea. What was the state of north korea. And where they lived. What did they have. What did they lack. When came here so my father was born on. What is now. The border. North korea and china. My mother was born a little bit closer to what is now. The thirty eighth parallel town called kiss on and you know they had to. They like most people fled to the south and they lost everything and korea is remarkable. How people think about created today but that progress and the success. They've had i think people forget. Just how poverty stricken korea was they lost everything and i forget even myself that my parents were refugies. The you know for a long time. They they lost everything and they. My dad emigrated to new york in nineteen sixty three to work as a dishwasher because life was so hard better opportunity was going to be in america. And that's how it all happened. And he came back and he married my mother and my i think my mom came back to america in sixty eight or sixty seven. So do you think often about the distance between the lives that they had because they they live through the korean war right. Yes they did. Yeah so do. Do you think often about the distance between the lives. They had in north in north korea and then south korea when they lost everything and live through war. What it was like raising you in in suburbs. You know now that. I'm a father i think about it in a completely different way than i was growing up and when i was a kid i was just so angry at why they couldn't raise us like normal. You know white. America and if it wasn't even then i remember my my my dad's mother staying with us for short period of time and how how mean she was and how frugal she lived and how i just was not just embarrassed about food embarrassed by how they were raised. And i didn't want to be like that. And i'm remorseful of not trying to understand that as at a younger age and what they lived experiences. They had just a cultural difference. They had to overcome like my parents wound up in northern virginia. You know in the early seventies i. I'd imagine what that was like or even from my dad who lived in new york. My dad hated new york city. You visit me occasionally. But he hated it. Because of the trauma he had living there as a as a kid in his early twenties. That didn't speak english in the sixty early sixties. I can't imagine how hard that must have been so the older. I've gotten the more i'm moved by all. They had to sacrifice a win through to to to give the family everything they need it but to put some perspective on your anger you tell a story in your memoir about how in new you're playing in a go kart and I guess it overturned your leg was really injured and for five days. You're saying it hurt. It hurt your crying and your father said just walk. And he'd put creamer ointment on it and five days later when your parents finally took it to the hospital you had a badly broken femur which was while you're in so much pain and you know you were so angry at the way you're paying was not taken seriously and that nothing was being done when your leg was in serious jeopardy so i guess that's just one example of why you grow up with so much anger towards your father It's hard for kids to understand the kind of perspective that you were just talking about but it is just like that anger really stuck with you though for for forever for. Unfortunately it did and i. I mean i'm trying not to be me. That's that's my mantra. Don't be me and so much of. It was an excuse to be angry in the past. And i'm trying to have a better understanding not as a an excuse for anything but i've really thought about. That's one story right. I broke my leg. My dad would not let me go to the hospital over a few days and with my i mean. Ics psychiatrists and that's a lot to unpack. Because now that. I'm a father. I can't imagine letting my son not see a doctor. If he broke his leg or got sick so it caused me to evaluate like that my love his love for me was conditional right that i did something wrong but when i think about it more as terrible as that sounds at twenty twenty and it is terrible. My father was just trying to teach me how to be tough and how to survive. And when i think about it in relation to his mother right who stayed with us she she. This is a funny story. She would wash dishes. My brother and i would like go. Check out crazy grandma. Is she's washing dishes. By spew spitting water out like watching like this because she had no running water before and it was about conserving water and that was the easiest way for her to wash dishes and every time she'd make rice every colonel would be dried on the deck. And we'd be like what are we doing. And she'd make us eat it later but she was just trying to teach us how to survive. And when you're little kid you can't understand that. And if that's how she's we're. I imagine how she raised my father. And you know it takes a lot of empathy that i've tried to have a bigger reserve of to pre shit and to understand all the things i never understood about my father and i'm still going through it so in some ways i'm more angry than ever and my dad in some ways i've forgiven him and it's gonna be process. I should mention. He died in june. I'm sorry and i hope you got to like work. Some of those things out with him. we did. We did and he lived a full life. My guest is david. Chang chef restaurant tour and host of the netflix series ugly delicious. His new memoir is called. Edp each we'll talk more in the second half of the show and will listen back to my nineteen eighty-nine interview with travel writer and memoirs jan morris. Her nineteen seventy four memoir. Conundrum was about transitioning to female. I'm terry gross and this is fresh air. this message comes from. Npr sponsor capital one. Welcome to banking reimagined capital. One checking and savings accounts have no fees or minimums and a top rated banking app. That lets you manage your money anytime anywhere. Check on the account. Balance deposit checks pay bills and transfer money on the go. This is banking reimagined. What's in your wallet capital one. Na member fdic. Let's get back to my interview with david chang. He's james james beard award. Winning chef and restaurant tour is most famous. Restaurant is called momofuku. He also hosts the netflix series. Ugly delicious in his new memoir. Eat a peach. He writes about food restaurants his childhood. His parents are from north korea. Any writes about his inner life. So you mentioned that. You're you're troubled You you were diagnosed with bipolar disorder. And of course you had it before you were diagnosed with it so you didn't know you didn't really have an understanding. I suppose of what you were dealing with and you you went through a very long depression you write about like you're suicidal thinking during that period when we didn't really understand what you were dealing with and you had like months of depression and you're thinking Thinking about suicide. You didn't want to hurt your parents by actually doing it but like how. How serious were you in in your thinking. Is that too personal to ask. Is that no. I mean to ask. It's not an appropriate and in part of the reason why i want to talk about. This is so we can talk about these serious subjects. That people never want to talk about and it's hard to find You know stories that people can relate to and it's my story and i'm always careful talking about depression because it never want to see it as prescriptive for anybody else but for me. I reached a point in my life. Where i just couldn't find meaning in anything. Was this before you were cooking. Or after when i was in japan that was my first serious manic bats but when i came back as a cook when i was working at a balloon that was probably the lowest point i've ever experienced and it's hard to explain to anybody that would question. Why would you feel so bad. Like come on. Just step outside. I can talk about it now. In a way that i never was able to talk about when experiencing it. Because i know it's it's not my fault. It's a chemical reaction my brain or a lack of certain things that are working in my brain and there are certainly other factors involved culturally. There's things happened my life with my father my upbringing and it's hard to want to live as crazy as that sounds right and you just think about all the different ways you can end it and the craziest thing about depression to me after all these years is when you're in a state of serious depression all you do is think about yourself. That distorts things are so sensitive to hurt in your self. Confidence is at all time. Low self esteem at an all time low. But you're simultaneously thinking that everything you think is the right thing weirdly. You're convicted convinced enough that anything you think is right in true. And it's this weird paradox. And i went through all of it and i. That's why i try. I tried to hurt myself in ways. That didn't look like suicide. And i reached a point in my life where i had no reason or experience to open up a restaurant but it reached a point where i literally was like life or death is like a scenario like the worst thing is death and the second thing is hurting other people along that road. The other thing is like everything else. Okay right and for me. It was okay. If i what's the worst thing. What's the worst thing i can do. Okay that okay. Let's think about that. Before i choose to do that. Let's try to do things that i would never do once restaurants kind of saved your life. Then you felt like you'd become addicted to work that you were like working constantly And What does it feel like in your life. Do you feel like work has become an addiction. What did it feel like you know it felt. it's i. I'm still working through it and i had a conversation with my wife last night. And she's like gotta stop. You gotta stop. You know. All i wanna do is provide for my family and that's ultimately what my father wanted in the last thing i wanna do is raise my family and my child the way i did my father but i could still get the same result if all i do is work and i'm trying to break these habits. It's really hard and you know in the book. I say the weird thing about work is that the last socially acceptable addiction and the bottoming out in work addiction. Is that the peak of your career. You know it's it's the craziest was so perceptive when you wrote that because usually like an in memoirs or people talk about their lives and they talk about bottoming out with an addiction. It's the lowest point of their life. They're not functional anymore. But like you say if you're dictate to work the peak of your career is when you're most addicted. It's it's it's a it's a it didn't really hit me until i would say a few years back. Probably like ten years into running momofuku. My my mom and dad was like they wanted to screw me up in the ad before. They really did a good job at this moment when they said you have to stop working so much and i was like what. That's what i was like. This is this tracy. If they're telling me. I'm working too much like i have reached a new level and the hardest part tarry too and this memoir and my work addiction is. It's my perspective. And i think along the way i can rationalize anything in my addiction to work and proving people wrong and getting to my goals and reaching the metaphorical mountain top and as a culture. I feel like we've put such a premium on doing that. And the sacrifices worth it right. And now i see that i heard a lot of people along the way and my book only represented some of those stories. Some of those people have reached out to over the years former employees family members friends. When you're on the single-minded track to get to where you wanna go you know it's borderline sociopathic to be like. Yeah it's worth it. I'm gonna do this even though you know what i mean. I'm gonna keep on going. Keep on going and we sort of celebrate that at least i internalize it as that. It's worth it. You gotta get there. You gotta do it and you get there and you realize what the hell was i doing. And that's where i'm at right now. Is i hope. I've done more good than bad and and i think that i have what i ask for forgiveness for the people i've wrong i have to earn you know. Let me say that in book. You say that at some point you hired like an executive coach who is going to give you feedback about how to be a better executive and your restaurants better and the i i think the first thing. The coach said to you It's amazing how long people have worked with you in your restaurants because they hate you. I'm thinking you've probably paid a lot of money to hear that but that must have really hurt to hear about. How did you change after after hearing that. And why were they feeling. So discontent with you. Because i was a horrible boss and i ruled with fear and commands and like your father brought you up. That's the hardest thing is. I spent my entire life making sure i would never be like my dad and i wound up being exactly like my dad to so many people and i just couldn't see it and a lot of the book is about perspective and seeing these things and facing that and realizing that just because i understand. That now doesn't mean that you know i. It doesn't rationalize anything. I have a different perspective. And i have to change that and and that was hard to know that everything i did for a long period was if it's good for me it's good for the restaurant and it's good for the people that work for me and i have that line and then you realize that was. That was just the i could convince myself of anything and again that can be very powerful thing for good and for bad. So you were. We were talking earlier about You know suicidal thinking you your friends your friends with anthony bourdain and he died of suicide the day before your wife found out that she was pregnant. And you'd been trying very hard to get pregnant I have to say. There's so many examples that i've seen in my life. Were a beloved person dies and the wedding is right afterwards or you know some celebration is supposed to come right. Afterwards or child is born right afterwards. And i don't understand exactly why i mean. Obviously i don't understand why it often is that way but it just seems to often be that way but i mean. Did you an ordained talk about suicidal thinking that something you shared with each other. yeah Tell me it is but it's important to talk about and Tony was a big brother to me and You know it was crazy thing when we found out when gray scott actually when we were when the when the pregnancy actually took place. I couldn't believe the timing of it. All it was just so crazy because we have been trying so so long and Tony thought that. I would have been you know. I mean like he would. He was always worried that i was going to hurt myself. And that's the problem. Is i always thought that tony. Tony was a strong one. Tony was invincible and know a lot of people are coastal. Maybe feel the same way that that we should've asked him how he was doing. A little bit more and actually there are always signs. If you think about it. And i feel a lot of guilt. Because i want to tony to be in service of me. And it wasn't exactly the you know reciprocated. And he was always worried about how troubled i was and i never once thought that i know but tony white knuckled everything i mean he was. Who's tony dane. And tell he wasn't. And i think if anything it's a it's a reminder to anyone that just because someone is doing well and has a has everything going for them right the job. The the family the looks the fame. Whatever doesn't mean that they're not going through something. I should mention here in the first episode of the second and most recent season of ugly delicious. It's all about children. Having children feeding children And we see in that episode. You and your wife telling your parents the news that that she was pregnant. And there's just this explosion of joy from your parents your mother system tears and So i if. I want to call our listeners and viewers at attention to that. It's a. It's a beautiful moment but i didn't realize i mean you know what what a lot to go through in the course of twenty four hours euro. Terry that kind of emotion was one of the purest things i've ever experienced and i was so happy whenever told me that telling someone else that your partner is expecting would bring kind of emotion. And that's when. I knew that there was more to life to live right. There's more emotions to seek out. And i was so glad to give that to my parents. My guest is chef and restaurant tour. David chang his new memoir is called edith. Peach will continue our conversation after a break. And let me also mention this. If you've been dealing with serious depression that has led to thoughts of suicide or know someone who is there are people you can contact for help at the national suicide prevention lifeline. You can call them at eight hundred two seven three talk. That's eight hundred two seven three talk or eight hundred two seven three eight two five five. This is fresh air support for this podcast and the following message come from e-trade trading isn't for everyone but each rate is whether it's saving for a rainy day or your retirement you trade. Has you covered. They can help you check your financial goals off your list and with a team of professionals giving you support when you need it. You can be confident that your money is working hard for you. Get more than just trading with each raid. To get started today visit eatright dot com slash. Npr for more information each rate securities llc. Member finra sipc. Let's get back to my interview with james beard award winning chef and restaurant tour david chang. His new memoir is called. Eat up each. i'm thinking about how much your life has changed in the past year. Your son was born a little over a year ago and then not long after he was born the pandemic starts and you know new yorkers shutdown. La shutdown your closing restaurants. You're working lot from home at the same time you're a new parent your cooking. More at home So i don't know in in in some ways has the pandemic enabled you because you're not flying around to your restaurants and sydney or toronto or new york and your home so much of time enabled you to spend more time with your son at a time when you might not have been able to. I wrestle with a lot because this year has been so hard. And i've been so blessed and privilege and i need to understand all of the goodness that i have in my life and it's terrible things have been. I'm weirdly strangely. Grateful because i don't think any other juncture or any other scenario i would have been able to spend this much time with my family and It's made me reevaluate so many things you know. And i want to be present in. And i've been telling myself so much this year that winning is losing and i wanna find ways where you know just yesterday for example. You know there's stuff going on at work. And i was having dinner and i immediately had to like immediately jumped in work mode and i talked to my wife later. And she's like. I understand why you have to do this. But you still always care more about work than your own family. And i want that emotion to be equal to my family. And it's not there. And i'm mad at myself for that. That work can come in and i'm so dedicated to work. I'm i'm so grateful for the team. We have momofuku. With marguerite allan the whole team that i wanna make sure that they're not let down and i'm helping them out and their family too but this is an opportunity for me to be the best version of myself for my family and that's the most important job. I can have an tell myself that. So i i read and i couldn't believe that this is true the until the pandemic you hardly cooked at home. Could that possibly be true. Oh man a lot of professional chefs. Never ever i mean for me and a lot of people. i know. it's just the last thing you wanna do when you come home or on your day off cook when you order out pizza all the time or any. Yeah yeah. I just never cooked in my first apartment. I always actually unplugged the oven. I turned off the gas just with storage because and even on plates until literally when my wife moved in with me. I had to buy plates. And i'll be in ridiculous. What do you cook for yourself and your family. I love cooking for my son and it's the best way to this day still and that's the one thing why food was so important in my family. One thing where we always could agree on. You know even with our differences of trying to eat something delicious. So i cook breakfast for my son. I cook lunch. I cook dinner. And i took a lot of He likes eggs and rice and rice. He doesn't like any vegetables. He doesn't even like meat. And i'm currently at a place where i'm trying to figure out how to incorporate vegetables like every other parent and i am supremely frustrated at my to out what he wants to eat. But it's a lot of rice and but you know just cooking food or anything like i'm cooking just like anybody else. It's not like how. I cook in restaurants but i i tell you cooking at home and actually cooking for my wife while she was expecting hugo like when she was you know he was in the womb. That's when i realized like oh this is cooking and i had never been in a position where i'm trying to generally feed someone else with love and i just want to nurture them and cooking for my wife was the best and then cooking while she was nursing had new meaning. Now it's feeding hugo and the strangest thing has happened. I now have learned a different way. Of course that i never thought that i never would. It's now changed. How i wanna cook in general. I care more about serving a bowl of soup. That looks like you know just plain old soup but made with love its shares. That is just food with love versus food. That's trying to impress david. I can't tell you what a pleasure it's been to talk with you. Thank you so much and thank you so much for being so open. I really appreciate it. I think it's valuable to hear what you have to say. Thank you so much my interview with david. Chang's recorded last thursday at zoom event produced for. Whyy by emily. Kim slow jiang's new memoir is called. Edp each after we take a short break. We remember travel writer. Historian and memoir. Est jan morris. She died last week at the age of ninety four. Her first memoir published in nineteen seventy four was about transitioning to female. We listen back to our nineteen eighty nine interview. This is fresh air support for this podcast and the following message come from master class. A new year is around the corner for a lot of people that means dusting off a creative goal. Whether it's writing a book starting a garden or trying a new recipe one night a week. Maybe you just wanna take twenty minutes a day for yourself to relax and listen to someone you find inspiring with masterclass you can get intimate access and insight from some of the world's most diverse thinkers with easy stream classes. Listen to writers like david sedaris. Learn from athletes like serena williams or watch shifts like yotam. Ot with an annual membership you get unlimited access to more than ninety masterclass instructors from any device so you can watch at home or listen while you're out for a walk. Whatever your creative goals. There's a class that can help you get inspired this holiday when you buy an annual masterclass membership you get another annual membership free go to master class dot com slash fresh air. We're going to remember travel writer memoir ist and historian jan marris. She died friday in her home country of wales at the age of ninety four until nineteen seventy-two. She was known as james morris. She changed her name to jan at the age of forty six after transitioning to female and having gender confirmation surgery two years later in nineteen seventy four. She wrote about gender in her memoir conundrum. She wrote. I spent half my life travelling in foreign places. I have only lately come to see that incessant wandering as an outer expression of my inner journey. When i spoke with her in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine just published. A book called pleasures of tangled life in the prologue she wrote. There was a time when new to womanhood. She tried to forget that she'd ever lived as a man. But it had grown on her over the years that this was not only intellectually dishonest but rather dull pleasures of tangled life focused on the pleasures that had sustained her over the years. One of those pleasures was indra. Johnny i asked her to explain well androgen. He means to me that. I have shared if not in the president at least in the past a lot of the emotions and the experiences of both genders. And why i say the beginning of the book chief do to make you smile that i Highly recommend the advantages and tragedy. Last says it was that in my experience if you share both the emotions of both sexes. Neither sex is frightened of you. Both sexes are willing to confide in. Nobody thinks your threat and since it seems to me that life in my life anyway has been urged. Consta- surged towards reconciliation and unity. That does seem to me an enormous advantage on in. Life's quest. When you were still writing as james morris you were best known for Being the reporter who climbed mount everest with edmund hillary. You were there with edmund hillary when he scaled to the top. And you're the first person to report it to the press What was the experience like when you got to the top there when you say soda famous you got it right. It was andy warhol's famous fifteen minutes of it but in fact it changed my life. You know I was young and having a even as a sort of Specious success of that kind orders. One holes at choosen attitudes to oneself I was only there similar to write about it. You know And the excitement for me was not so much actually. They're getting this double the mountain as the excitement of getting a scoop as we used in those days to call it anyone ever had you've traveled and written about travel for much of your life. And you think you read in a different style than many american travel writers. Do yes i do and i think the historical reasons for it as a matter of fact yeah. Will you write that. You had to learn to see africa in non-colonial terms what were some of the things you are up against because of your own upbringing that you you had to unlearn when traveling certainly i think the imperial aspect of it because people of my age. I'm sixty three this year. People of my age were brought up in britain to think of the world as ours really added to that is the old english culture rather than our current insular culture which led people back in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries to go abroad in spirit absolutely of of of slightly arrogant independence and so one went abroad and a spirit of Of of unfair and illicit privilege i remember alan moorehead writing about British offices in cairo joined the war and he said that all of them seem to think they came from very rich privileged backgrounds. Of course they didn't at all the the richness and the privilege came from history and from the empire and we were all it was true of all and that is something that i did gradually like all the rest i when i was young. I went abroad in that spirit. Not exactly of jingoism said if overweening confidence i think it was at the end of conundrum you rode. I've lived the life of a man. I live now. The life of a woman. One day. Perhaps i shall transcend both. Are you still interested in transcending both. And what do you mean by that. I think it's conceivable that i have transcended both as a matter of fact I feel myself to be part of each under both and that seems to be not unhappy situation. Do they happy or unhappy. Not unhappy in between the two rather like these double negative. Why why would you prefer transcending both sexes. Rather than being part of because as i said before it seems to me purpose of of my life anyways is a quest for unity and reconciliation. And that's the beginning isn't it okay. Well i thank you very much for talking with us. Thank you very much indeed. My interview with jan marris was recorded in nineteen eighty nine. She died last friday at the age of ninety four tomorrow on fresh air. We celebrate thanksgiving in good company with conan o'brien last week he announced he'll be ending his. Tbs late night show in june. After twenty eight years of hosting late night shows will lessen back to the interview. We recorded in october. Two thousand nine hundred. I hope you'll join us for fresh. Air's executive producer is danny miller. Our technical director and engineer is audrey. Bentham our interviews and reviews produced in edited by. Phyllis myers roberta shorrock sam brigger lauren crandall had on enron denardo theresa madden. They had challenor and kayla. Lattimore our associate producer of digital media. Is molly seavy nesper. Seth kelly directed today show. We wish you a happy thanksgiving. We know many of you will be unable to celebrate with family and friends because of covid precautions. Please do what you need to do to stay safe and protect the people you love. I'm terry gross. This message comes from. Npr sponsor three m who continues to expand production of the respirators frontline workers need globally and is on track to supply two billion by the end of twenty twenty more at three m dot com slash. Cove three m science applied to life.

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