17 Burst results for "David Barack"
Brain Inspired
"david barack" Discussed on Brain Inspired
"Brain but when we're we've moved to in silica neurons and in silica connections in the kinds of precision in and so forth then It's a for me. It's open question about whether or not you can make progress. I would still make empirical justice. John did that. You need ai to shift as well but it just doesn't make sense. It's hard to see how that kind of approach could yield success but So i would make that empirical bet for a as well. What is the shift that needs to happen. Because you still have to build a network so you have to. You have to implement it in some architecture right right so i think one of the and actually. I think there are some analyses of hours. I can think of robert gangs worked for example. It's really great Analyze neural networks from a dynamical systems. perspective states-based perspective seeing how different areas the state space have different structures that can support different types of cognitive function. And i think that's the shift. You're gonna need us what you're going to see is that potentially a shift away from I don't work in a i. So i'm going to be very speculative right now putting Shift away from a consideration of of error propagation Back towards you know the different nodes as a result of safe performance on a task. Depends on what you're what you're optimizing. Your air function is but you could imagine that instead of doing that. We're going to try and Propagate air on the basis of. I don't try to replicate certain kinds of state space. Let's say or something like that. So that would be a a real concrete difference where you're error function that's gonna define the era that can propagate back is going to differ. It's going to change from like a task optimization to let's say a dynamic optimization or something like that that would be but i don't work in this field so Growing you know That's happened. I dunno worrying about this law. But you know you had your hassan on your program right. where he talked about. You know this direct fit approach and you know he said you could do a lot of intelligent as daniel bennett. Cools it competence without comprehension. You can show intelligent behaviour by basically just training these networks and you have such a big data sample that you can get by in life just by trump relation right the but he admitted in his paper and on your show that when it comes to coalition this flexibility this extrapolation. He had no idea. You just admitted that this approach would not get you there right so in other words we're just at the same a poorer whether we're neuroscience or whether we're in a i i think it's delicious that where exactly the same gap in both professions. We don't know how to get this rich representation either in mexico or understand it in euro and it and i don't think that's a coincidence. I think it's because we're up against the same problem and we're going and i don't know who's going to win. The race is going to be some sort of evolutionary algorithm. At at open or mind was suddenly. Oh my god. This thing is thinking more. There's going to be a more principled approach using the fielding approach where one begins to see what's required to get thinking. I don't know one thing. I can tell you whether it's going to be the hub fielding approach in big areas or a. I think they have a much more much more likely. To succeed than going down into an insect and being sharing tony according cognition finding some kind of circuit motif that you can call micro cognitive and then somehow imagine you can extrapolate from that so of the three projects. I think we would argue that. Doing principled hope field neuroscience on primates for example or doing work in ai. Worrying about system to like..
Brain Inspired
"david barack" Discussed on Brain Inspired
"Mentioned that People in by people you meant ngo and there others talking about system to consciousness prior. Sorry can't help kind of laugh when the word consciousness just thrown around in there Bringing bringing this so so you know what prescription Can you do you think this approach. can provide for a that. That might be missing right now. Is is the ngo approach it. Or is there more to it. So i think that a i may need to move away from a focus on notes and connections in. You're seeing the certainly in a lot of these analysis of dna networks more towards understanding their functionality in terms of state spaces in manifold soon and these kinds of the objects in an integrator concerning place on a more complex than in perhaps discreet aspects of activity. I mean i would go so far as to say they may need to move away from from Thinking of nodes in wages all that needs to be included in so far as networks. Want to be biologically inspired so as we say in the paper. We speculate that it might turn out that. There's that spikes in activation is really upbeat phenomenal. Nether what's going on getting a readout of this of this hop fielding neuro functional type objects and that it might be implemented not just by neural activity but by all kinds of of Other types of truck in the brain by large bio-molecules and so forth. And maybe that's the kinds of signals that needs to start incorporating. I know that there is an active research program. That's trying to do that. I will say this which might be more surprising is really operating. I think with certain fundamentally different material. Obviously it's in silica and it might be that given the nature of human manufactured computer processors that you're able to do a lot more than you can with sort of our evolutionary constructed neural processors in and it might be that they're going to be able to do things in other words are going to be able to have cognitive or cognitive like behaviors even if they do restrict themselves to a more nodes and connections type you just because the process is that they're working with our so fundamentally more powerful than the ones that biology has us with. So you know you are. Is this intelligence israel cognition. It may not be we might have to start to serve brooke. Other notions of intelligence Besides the biologically inspired one in order to understand the way that these systems operate..
Brain Inspired
"david barack" Discussed on Brain Inspired
"The aggregate behavior of lots and lots of into connecticut neurons exploited neural tissue inequality to be different way that yields to these kind of analyses. We're talking about okay and so it and again. It's just a bet that if we're going to get to the kinds of representations important cognition just like we're getting real traction from motor cortex and hippocampus using population of approaches. That's going to be what yields the special source for ignition. It would be very hard to think that when you go from m one to promote cortex prefrontal cortex you suddenly become sharing tony and again right. It would be very strange. And if you look at Mark recent work on sm versus motor. Cortex is actually very interesting that he has to invoke representation for the sama where he subjects it to the same kind of analysis because you actually have to represent the order that you're going through it action. That is more important in motor cortex. So i would say that. He's showing that this extra piece of representations the order of the coming sequence is present in ece and is not present. Name one an and so you've got a lovely juncture between a representational population analysis and am one and a a non representational announces them one at a reputational level analysis and some trajectories at a very jewish building. May so it's not that you take from thirty thousand feet is just saying that when you get into cortex it seems like this approach is yielding a lot of fruit. That is not happening if you try and save neuron as connect your own be is connected junior on c. and kind of intuit the computations in representations by following the sequential transmission of information specific connections. Just doesn't work. not only does it not work. It gives us insight into why even half cortex he'll why don't we just have these series of cereal. Transformations what what. Why do we need this complex prefrontal critical zoo with all these. You know bizarre. A menagerie of neural responses. And i think it's because the functions that That prefrontal cortex cortex..
Brain Inspired
"david barack" Discussed on Brain Inspired
"Patients right. Apraxia patients cannot imitate or use tools properly but then mistakes pathak executed. Yeah so the independence. The fact that matter is that they can be completely independent. If that's the that's the question than there's no question that you can have ablation of censoring mud representations but maintain your cognitive wants. Absolutely i know that behaviorally they can be independent. What i'm wondering about is within these neuro. Dynamical objects right where where the Where where does it start becoming useful to talk about Manafort's right To talk about lower dimensional Representations as useful tools for thinking about higher mental properties. Because in the end. I mean the vision is right that we can An and correct me please. Because i'm sure i'm wrong. The vision what. I what i gather from the paper. The vision is to have little Little shapes little trophy shape that we can put up on a shelf and point to and say That's worrying that tim he's gonna fall down the well that's what that looks like right On a cloudy day or something and then you have all these different shapes. And i'm sorry. This is a very simplified example. But i'm just trying to really concrete that then you can look and say look. That's the way that the that looks in manifold space. Yeah so I'll say that you know worrying. Tim gonna fall down. The wells gonna look a lot like worrying that Brenda going to fold on the well. So you have this surf swapping out for a representation content but they're gonna lie along these manifold sin. You'll just be in a different position along the same manifold but it's going to be dramatically different sort of neuro functional space from hoping that you know the it will rain tomorrow. Donald falls down the well. Let's see i for a different orthogonal. Never mind going for sure but the different attitude hoping is going to involve a different computations representations and so you'll have a different transformation..
Brain Inspired
"david barack" Discussed on Brain Inspired
"Because i find them to be more friction he than anything else But but that's what. I'm kind of wondering where the where the you know. What is the nature of the independence between These types of computing. Let's say so. I think it's going to depend partly on what you're trying to explain here. So if you are engaged in an understanding of the reflex. It's entirely okay to Restrict consideration to these kinds of sensory motor nodes and connections sort of representations. I think there's great expense benefit as you surrogate deeper and deeper so to speak into the cognitive as you are considering more sophisticated sorts of representations. Then you're going to start needing to appeal to these more sophisticated neural structure. We do we know that linus. I don't you so. I have had this question posted me before. I'm of the opinion. i'm not sure what johnson is. But i'm of the opinion that it's not clear there really is a line. I think there's going to be gradations of cognitive function that are going to sort of there's a spectrum and some cognitive functions imagination narration planning Might require actually planning. It seems like maybe doesn't require such sophisticated things. I think it depends on the type of planning but no but there are going to be these More sophisticated cognitive functions. That are going to require these more. Sophisticated types of explanation in terms of neuro spaces of dynamical objects in the brain in there will be less officiated. Instances cognition what you would you guys argue for a clean break though so that you can have these mental thoughts that are separated from your more motor sensory systems. There that's why i'm asking about the independence right. So what you just said is that there's a dacian potentially but what you argue for in the paper i believe is a clean break between them. So that you can have these higher level mental properties. I may totally be misunderstanding though. I wanna be many things being slightly convenient here. I absolutely do think that that is a..
Brain Inspired
"david barack" Discussed on Brain Inspired
"Okay and they require very different. Frameworks to understand. And if you think therefore that you get emergent properties from the interaction between neurons that are connected and at that and it's very interesting. What david said when he said use that reputation in other words. It's very important that the nervous system from the inside is using that simplified sub space to do work it's not just us epistemological scientists from the outside. Just simplifying things for our say and this is not a new concept computer. Scientists have noticed for a long time that in a high under high rachael system. You omit details so that you can do control with a simple object right not the computer scientists them. It's not the computer scientist. The computer does okay. So in other words once you take this notion of emergence an interactions which generate objects which are the control objects for hierarchical system and the physicists have known this on the computer sides for ages. it's not that new concept merhdad. Actually i agree completely with with david. I think it convinced me that there was a clue and intuition that could be given by looking at these intervals in this state space Mud at himself in one of his articles. Talks about the fact. That if you want to understand how it works and you want to actually design a clock so it works for itself. You need to have things like cogs springs. He's emergency shaped objects that you construct a club with you. Don't talk about the atoms that make up the springs all cogs. That would be a very strange way to design a clock so he might add himself. Makes that point that these are not just epistemological objects to explain her clockworks. Your friend this is the type object that you need to construct a clock so that it works. And all we're saying is at agra emergent properties lead to ontological objects which the system uses from the inside and that is not something that is news to people outside of neuroscience so the so the low dimensional manifold type objects dynamical objects that..
Brain Inspired
"david barack" Discussed on Brain Inspired
"Many neurons collected at the same time to get some better snapshot of the population has been productive especially in the past five or ten years not just a representation questions that have to Cognition as john pointed out evening in motor cortex has been tremendously fruitful. So you have on the one hand. A relatively stagnant research program that uses these older techniques and has a commitment to a sharing tony in style. Explanation where you're detailing individual neurons and the connections between them and what each individual neuron is. Doing i've heard it described as sort of like this Anecdotal neuroscience where each neuron has a little tail to tell about what it does to one where you have. Many neurons are being recorded That have produced a novel insight into a range of of cognitive as well as non cognitive neural functions. So i think and that's productive so unlike this adherence to this more old-fashioned view there has been a productive research program and and that to me says not just that this is the new thing in town but this is sort of what the doctor ordered that we really did need these kinds of techniques and methods in order to make progress. And that's very exciting. I mean this is. This is actually really good news. And i'll add as by way of kota here that it is not just confirming these models that we have from other disciplines. Either it's really providing novel insight into how the brain is able to rise to the intelligent behavior that's truly representation cognitive. Can you give a country example of a of a novel insight. Yeah so a lot of the recent research and publications that are coming out the have to do with this kind of new hop fielding into where you're looking rural populations in you're looking at how the system traverses through that state space have provided insight into more complex representations in the brain a law and one of the main explanatory concepts as notion of a metaphor. So it's not like when you look at these population activity and you have thousands of neurons. Let's say they're being recorded that the system occupies any point in this huge space of possibilities instead. The system tends to occupy points. That are on what's called a manifold Sort of a restricted subset of very restricted subset of the possible positions in that space. And it's those subsets are manifold that kerry seemed to carry these kinds of representations contents And there's there's nothing about any theories in psychology or connor science and saying you have to use manifold or anything like this but the brain does use manifold. So i'd like to think of like to conceptualize this kind of insight as a novel contribution. I'll add in addition that there are ways of reading out where the system lies in the restricted sub spaces on these manifold that is also providing novel insight into cognition. So i i love this one paper. It's a beautiful paper From the jazayeri lab at mit. It's from sewn. At all in the journal neuron from two thousand eighteen where they were investigating how the brain is able to keep track of and recreate Intervals of time. So the animals have to wait through an interval time. And then when they're signaled to recreate it they kind of have to forego moving they have to inhibit their movements until they think. Unequal amount of time has elapsed at which time they respond and in addition to these kinds of manifold i.
Brain Inspired
"david barack" Discussed on Brain Inspired
"Making a purchasing a plane ticket and you have a representation of a plane in your mind when you're planning this vacation but there's no plane in your environment right now. That's causing that representation. So there's some internal process that causes that representation even though you're not in the presence of planes and and of course there's a million examples of this type that we can use. You can think about things that don't exist and so on and so forth so there's a lot of sophisticated cognitive activity that goes on that requires this kind of internal action computation over internal structures in order to explain by the way this more sophisticated notion for presentation that we talk about. The paper has caused no end of controversy When we presented this material in lots of furious debate. I mean it's actually a very good example and this is very important here of where the philosophies a neuroscientist confused each other. Yeah okay the. It's actually very interesting. That i'm gonna let me just give another that. I can think help if you walk into your front door and you walk to your kitchen okay. You just do it. But if i asked you pull right now tell me how many left towns you take when you walk in the front door of your house to get your kitchen right now. You're going to have to use a representation right. You're going to have to think about the out your house. You're gonna have to imagine yourself looking through it and you're going to have to answer you're gonna have to do computation on that representation which is count. The number of tons per se late it. Yeah you're gonna have to simulated whereas that's not the case when you walk into your house and go to the kitchen. You cashed what you do use cues. You don't have to use a representation like that. That is a vast difference. Okay and that is what this is about now. It's very interesting that philosophers who have tried to naturalize their views representation and stick to the neuroscience what they do in most cases and there are exceptions is they strip the interesting aspect representation this simulation down to impoverished anemic version the representation which is a state that maps i some more physically onto some aspect of the environment. Okay neuroscientist also have that in published view right. It's just some coronation ultimately right so it's very important to realize. Interestingly that in an attempt to get into the neural data the interesting aspect of representation which is is full blown simulation that you efficacy can do which we haven't slightest idea how that happens by the way.
Brain Inspired
"david barack" Discussed on Brain Inspired
"That it's only useful to think about representations when you overtly deliberatively consult them and use them rather than just now trick of them like any other fees that cognition is a type of internal behavior. I think the values that embody our aims in our goals during inquiry can augment change the direction which are cognition unfolds. Even to the deepest to inference even to the sequences of mental states that are purportedly logically connected as a result of one mental state seemingly supporting another. That is a completely value-based kind of internal sort of behavior. That can be completely unconscious. So here's bias. Not just in action. But in inference and thought pattern. And i see no other way but to suppose that that is representational driven. So that's why. I have that view. But john i don't think you and i have ever debated system one per system too so this is interesting to note that that's absolutely true. I think that. I what i'm saying is it is somewhat autumnal that i think that if to the degree that we are worrying about cognition. I think we're worrying about something where you're overtly. It's intentional your consulting model of the world. I do think that you can have intelligent reflexes. All the way up into cognition and it's interesting to me that whether you know a reflects way of striking backhand or reflex way of thinking about something. I'm not so sure that different. But i do think that different is when you start getting into this overt intentional use of representation but it may not matter hugely to this debate but my guess is that there is a difference between cognitive reflex and inova deliberative process. This is an interesting distinction. I don't know if you want to go down the backhand essentially example to talk about this. But you know it makes me think of Going back to our automating. Right automating Premium when we were talking about Learning science and prematurely automating concepts And the difference when you're doing a backhand inflow state versus doing backhand when you are intentionally thinking about it and it screws up your backhand right..
Brain Inspired
"david barack" Discussed on Brain Inspired
"But i'll just go quicker. Because i know david you know will have more to say for them. As i think there are a number of things festival just to finish the conversation just do you think important to distinguish between sort of population doctrine ideas in other words. You don't have to invoke dynamics per se to be able to derive interesting properties from populations just ran from neurons and of course as dynamics and single neuron data. That's what the perish stimulus time histogram is right so you know. I think it's important to accidentally except there's a very important role for considering dynamics and trajectories in population level analyses but not to conflate them okay in other words that's one thing the the points if we're gonna worry about thinking coke nisshin and you have to say that there's something different between thinking and moving and there's something about the neuroscience of moving that isn't going to easily extrapolate to the neuroscience of thinking and that one's going to have to you know from the outside in well what is thinking united states. Who said what kind of representations does one have to vote has to talk about intense analogy when asked to talk about models of the world a detachable from a stimulus. The one has to think more about what sets cognition thinking apart from sensory motor system and actually appoint about mead seeing stroke patients. I can tell you that. I see uncoupling systems all the time at the the best example is the diving bound. The butterfly was written by the editor of french l. Dominique bobi where he had a pontiac hemorrhage was locked in and roshan entire book right now. He couldn't move at all right but he could write an incredibly beautiful book. Okay and all. I'm saying is whatever we end up understanding about how he wrote that book. It's going to require some extra thinking from how he lost his ability to move all right. So that's the first thing is except that there's a there's something about canham system to versus cannon system. One which i will flagrantly. Say a lot of movement to system one thinking system too. So that's which we start with and then go okay based on a bet. David i had. What kind of neuroscience is going to give us the best insights in jewish ins concepts to think about that difference between the cub to system in the sensory meta system. And the argument. Is that the hub field in view this idea of population level phenomena right which have dynamics a going to be the.
Brain Inspired
"david barack" Discussed on Brain Inspired
"And to really question Interpretations of data so As minor scientific training proceeded I went from reading the entirety of journal. Articles of puzzling. Through everything to focusing on intro discussion to a much more mature position where i focus on methods and results and being very skeptical of interpretive action in in in in these papers interpretive writing which oftentimes introduction into the discussion and so and and that has come about i think because i'm much more willing to say They keep using the term used infants. Earlier it is not easy to define what inferences it's it's one of those funny terms that get thrown around that can mean a lot of different things to different people so that's a good example where that might occur in a paper for example on seizing coding in the brain visual cortex insane. We'll talk about in france. And i'll say i don't really buy the story because this is a term. It's really a filler term that it can take on different meanings for different readers and I think i'm much more willing to to call that out to in my own reading my own annotations in what. I'm reading end to end to sort of deconstruct positions And to try and dig down and say how much of what they're segment turns on this funny notion here that's not well defined an and then what the next is okay. What are they actually doing. What did they actually find. And that's where you get this focus on methods and results and then you can say okay. Here's the tangible output from the study at. Here's their interpretation but it has all these conceptual issues. And of course john and i are of the opinion that there has been a recent flowering of conceptual issues and it pays to pay attention to some of them. That is a great segue. I believe to to talk about the paper and which is a. Let's see how do i. How do i introduce this paper..
Brain Inspired
"david barack" Discussed on Brain Inspired
"And he had a brilliant. Sr nabokov where he talks about this. So but i think it's more that than trying to just go through an enormous pile of must read books out of context. That's almost impossible. Jonah about. I wanted to ask you this. I don't think i've ever asked you this and for fear that it's going to take up too much time. It doesn't matter. I'm gonna ask you anyway and and david i'll ask you the same sort of question a different way john. I'm wondering what your medical training how you think it has interacted or benefited you or giving you an edge or different cut that maybe i don't know if you see see something missing in other neuroscientists. Whatever that you know that your medical training has helped you with i mean. Do you think that it has helped you or even hindered you but your medical training. It's actually really interesting question. I actually it was a meeting at ssi about a year and a half ago. Where david my brother. David actually mentioned that and i and i thought about it a lot. Recent me i do think that specially doing stroke neurology where you see. The effects of module garrity in the extreme right has definitely given me an advantage. You know i hear people talk about embodiment and you know. The inactive is nine and and talking about there's no such thing as specialized areas of the brain and all this kind of nonsense. Quite frankly and i think that is extremely grounding to spend twenty five years looking after neurology patients. I used to talk to this. Actually with all of saxe who i knew and we were talking about this people who had opinions about how the brain works or about cognition who never ever had any experience looking what happens when cognition goes wrong or what happens when particular parts of the brain affected and so i think it leads to a kind of denial of the fact that the brain is where the action is for the most part especially when it comes to cognition. And this notion of monty. Larry so i would say that i found it increasingly grounding and when you read someone like tim shallows and the work that he's done beautifully talking about neuropsychologist and what the lesion approach approaches taught us about the brain and how neural recordings has not done in my opinion as good a job as lesions have sofa right. It's actually fascinating that lesion seemed to do something heftier in terms of what you see than interpreting recordings from the healthy brain and chalice rights. Very beautifully about this is. Can we substitute the lesion based pathology approach with the healthy recording approach and in my view. Actually he mentioned this. It doesn't cut nature's it's joint so far as well yet. But john unite of course in our paper. We make argument that it depends on what you mean by certain single neuron recording or bring recording. Oh yes i would. I mean just to say that to get onto the paper. I would say that it may well be the were entering era. Where neuro recordings of some kind in healthy brains could begin to give the massive amount of insight that lesions provide so to answer your question. Because i've seen so many behavioral consequences of lesions consistently by the way it's idiocy critic and done a lot of experiments in patients whether it cerebellar a taxi. Parkinson's.
Brain Inspired
"david barack" Discussed on Brain Inspired
"This kind of disciplinary interdisciplinary Expertise building this kind of comes back to what what john was talking about. Also with tending to prematurely automate our comfort level with some concepts and notions right. But this is what i want one of the most beneficial things that you can do is come to the place where it is automated where you don't where it doesn't with some concept like let's say inference you're reading and you read the word inference where that concept does not provide friction and slow you down and make you have to think right bring in your system To type two type thinking process your executive functioning processes. You wanna be able to have that automated so that then you can use that and it just brings into the foreign continues in the stream of your thought. I don't know if i had a question For that. But maybe just asking you john if you think you know because that is kind of the goal of being a renaissance person right and you you see this as antiethical to what's actually happening insci- i guess that's a question. Yeah i mean. I think one has to distinguish little bit between you know. Renaissance person really means A number of interlocking things one is sort of this polymathic implication right the last person to know everything right the other one is to Realize that there is a great benefit to being interested in the humanities if are scientists and vice vessel right and the is just a particular as i said before intellectual critical stunts that you take with respect to everything that you do and then not unrelated in so much more likely in my view take a critical stance if you happen to be curious in an across a number of domains right so I'm always struck by reading in the times. Mystery supplement very cogent. Quite short book review..
Brain Inspired
"david barack" Discussed on Brain Inspired
"Which i think is real which is his mind matter issue. This coq nisshin the whole frame. What we've got so in other words a and the final point to make about this. Is i think that scientists brother talks about this testify. You know scientists actually quite rare in the science germain. You've got a lot of ancillary professions statisticians programmers engineers a lot of professions. That are around this whole domain actual scientists people who are worrying in this more fuzzy global less local way is increasingly rare. Right and i think about when you read all of a saxes. Little essay on darwin coming back from his travels and worrying about the sex of plants. It just exudes a kind of scientific curiosity and creativity that we simply do not promote in current science. And i think that philosophy in a way can be a counterbalance to that tendency if used properly. Well one of the motivations for my question is that. I think like a lot of people you know. Become became disillusioned with the specialties. That i was learning in and of course you have to do a very deep dive and learn a very specific skill set to become an expert at anything but this is a anti-theft to the overall drive to be renaissance person will say person these days renaissance person Which is what may be maps onto what you're calling a scientist john. And and so. That's what i'm wondering i. My question was about neuroscience and philosophy specifically but of course then you have to have circle back around and learn more mathematics and you have to circle back around and learn all sorts of different topics and what is the right path to maximize the probability of becoming the renaissance person that you want to be right to to be most efficient one more to that pole when i'm teaching medical students or residence on the wards for example and you see a patient. I tell them that you should peg. You're reading to what you just saw. So you just saw a patient with hemi parasitic. Now is the time to read about motor cortex if you have a patient with a headache..
Brain Inspired
"david barack" Discussed on Brain Inspired
"Of cyclic and duration within the cycles of experimental versus philosophy cetera. Yeah i mean there's so many things to say here One i think is you know. Philosophers can be become quite defensive if you're if they're see mainly as a kind of like a statistics department university away to clean up people's thinking in whatever discipline they do right. That is a kind of mental hygiene so that people get a little bit of a sense of what they are getting confused over and help them realize the contradictions in their own thoughts. So kind of consult a thinking consult right but caused philosophies don't want to consider themselves that they have their own interest like statisticians had their own formal interest in there to do a power analysis for you right so ed says a little bit of that when it comes to philosophy especially might supplied to science but on not on that you know and then as we you and i have talked before no hassle. China's talked about this idea that the philosophy of science is sort of complimentary signs thinking about the things that scientists in their daily activities. Crossover right. it's just filling in the gaps. And another way that i would put it. Is you know. I just did a podcast recently on skill learning. And you know. I made the point that athletes or thomas or they're lower level stuff that they can devote their comission two strategies working out the opponents going to do next in other words. We're wearing so much as amateurs about backhand we can't possibly think about what our opponents during so you know you actually shunt your cognitive your precious coverage of resources to high level problems because everything else traumatized the problem i think in science and in nearest science in particular is that reversed what happens is scientists. Prematurely automaton is the important ideas and to vote all their thinking to lower level level methodological problems so they stop thinking about the big. What's representation what's inference..
Brain Inspired
"david barack" Discussed on Brain Inspired
"One when i was in college intersection of neuroscience and philosophy and at pitzer college where i went to school. You're able to designer a major and design my on major. I call the consciousness studies but it was really philosophy psychology and neuroscience and. I was tutored mentored by brian as well as a psychologist who has passed Sadly about ten years ago. Now william banks at pomona was a very close advisor. Might as well who's very interested in consciousness and so my undergraduate studies really were already at the intersection of these disciplines. I'll be focused on experience. The qualitative nature of consciousness in related aspects of subjectivity. And so forth of the mind. When i graduated from college i had The i think not too uncommon experience. Of what the hell do. I do now especially with a degree in consciousness science or consciousness studies and i decided to get a more rigorous training in analytic philosophy. And i did that. I got a master's degree in philosophy from walkie but then realized that i still love some of the pure glass backs of the study of mine and by then i had decided to move away from consciousness which i still find it very interesting and completely confounding. Basically every theory of never did a rational decision around especially giving my own intellectual limitations in in time and so forth and so i decided to pursue a fundamental questions in cognition in cog neuroscience and as well i Matriculated duke university where. They're only at the time they're still aren't very many Interdisciplinary programs at the graduate level. That combine off philosophy and the neurosciences and duke university had Has this wonderful Institutional mechanism for fostering interdisciplinary endeavor at the graduate level. They're called graduate. Admitting programs and i was in the cognitive neuroscience graduating program and i was able to Trickily within duke to the flossy department my second year for my actual phd out..
Brain Inspired
"david barack" Discussed on Brain Inspired
"If you really want to be just wannabe neuroscientist. You want to be a foster. You have to do those things You can't just read about them. There is a practical or practice or practice oriented kind of aspect what happens is scientists. Prematurely automaton is the important ideas and devote all their thinking to lower level level methodological trump. So they stop thinking this single neuron approach to understand. Vision was really spinning. Its wheels for the past decade in half or more There was marginal seemingly marginal progress on certain issues. But not on these core complicated aspects of cognition based on a bet. Dave deny had what kind of neuroscience is going to give us the best insights in jewish ins concepts to think about that difference between the extramarital and.