9 Burst results for "David Ariosto"

"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

02:44 min | 2 months ago

"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

"To i. Wanna thank you our audience for tuning into this episode of intelligence squared. I hope that you enjoyed it just as much as we did. Intelligence squared is a nonprofit generously funded by listeners like you and by the rosencrantz foundation clare. Connor is our ceo. David ariosto is head of editorial. Amy craft is chief of staff and leads. Production and shale mera is our consulting producer. Jen zellner is our senior researcher. Damon whitmore is our radio producer. Robert rosencrantz is our chairman. And i'm your host. John donvan okay. Here's a clip. From sam altman on the ted interview. And if you like what you hear you can listen to the full episode on the ten interview. Wherever every listening to this one. I have tremendous misgivings about leading an ai system. Not when we have today but one that we might not have too many more years. Start editing its own code while we're not paying attention. I think that's the kind of thing that is worth like a great deal of societal discussion about you know just because we can do that should we. Yes because when one of the things that the some been most shocking to you about the last few years has been just the power of unintended consequences. It's like you don't have to have a belief that that some sort of waking up of a of an alien intelligence suddenly decided it wants to wreak havoc on humans that may never happen What what you can have is just incredible power that goes amok so a lot of people would argue that. What's happened in technology in the nas. Fiennes is actually an example of that you know. social media. Companies created these intelligences. That were programmed to maximally harvest attention for example or shore analogy and the from that turned out to be in some ways horrifying an extraordinarily damaging. Is that a meaningful sort of canary in the coalmine saying lookout humanity. This could be really dangerous. And how how on earth do you protect against those kinds of unintended consequences. I think you raise a great point in general which is these systems. Don't have to wish ill to humanity to cause ill just when you have like very powerful systems. I mean unintended consequences for shore but another version of that is and i think this applies at the technical level at the company level at the societal level. Incentives are superpowers..

rosencrantz foundation David ariosto Amy craft Jen zellner Damon whitmore Robert rosencrantz John donvan sam altman Connor Fiennes
"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

02:38 min | 3 months ago

"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

"Thoughtful disagreement. So it's a pleasure to be with you. I wanna thank you our audience for tuning into this episode of intelligence square. I hope that you enjoyed it just as much as we did. Intelligence squared is a nonprofit generously funded by listeners like you and by the rosencrantz foundation clare. Connor is our ceo. David ariosto is head of editorial. Amy craft is chief of staff and leads. Production and shale mera is our consulting producer. Jen's zelma is senior researcher. David whitmore is our radio producer. Robert rosencrantz is our chairman. And i'm your host. John donvan okay. Here's that clip. From sam altman on the ted interview. And if you like what you hear you can listen to the full episode on the ten interview. Wherever you're listening to this one. I have tremendous misgivings about leading an ai system. Not one we have today but one that we might not have been too many more years. Start editing its own code while we're not paying attention. I think that's the kind of thing. That is worth a great deal of societal discussion about just because we can do that should we. Yes because when one of the things that the some been most shocking to you about the last few years has been just the power of unintended consequences. It's like you don't have to have a belief that there's some sort of waking up of a of an alien intelligence suddenly decided it wants to wreak havoc on humans that may never happen What what you can have is just incredible power. That goes muck so a lot of people would argue that. What's happened in technology in the nas fears is actually an example of that you know. Social media. companies created these intelligences that were programmed to maximally harvest attention for example or shore anonymity and the against from that turned out to be some ways horrifying and extraordinarily damaging is that a meaningful sort of canary in the coalmine. Saying look out humanity. This could be dangerous. in how. How do you protect against those kinds of unintended consequences. I think you raise a great point in general which is these systems. Don't have to wish ill to humanity to cause ill just when you have like very powerful systems. I mean unintended consequences for sure but another version of that is and i think this applies at the technical level at the company level at the societal level. Incentives are superpowers..

David whitmore David ariosto John donvan Robert rosencrantz shale mera Amy craft sam altman intelligence square today rosencrantz Connor Intelligence squared last few years Jen one ten interview things more
"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

02:38 min | 6 months ago

"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

"There <Speech_Male> <Silence> <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> <SpeakerChange> as <Speech_Male> four against <Speech_Male> or undecided <Speech_Male> on <Speech_Male> this resolution. <Speech_Male> Forgive student <Speech_Male> loan debt <Speech_Male> and something. We're <Speech_Male> doing a little bit differently. This <Speech_Male> time unlike in <Speech_Male> past debates where we <Speech_Male> announce the results <Speech_Male> of the vote immediately <Speech_Male> this time we're going <Speech_Male> to keep the voting open <Speech_Male> to allow the listening <Speech_Male> public to vote <Speech_Male> and give us a sense <Speech_Male> of what the nation is <Speech_Male> thinking. More <Speech_Male> broadly about <Speech_Male> this issue about <Speech_Male> the debaters arguments <Speech_Male> and then <Speech_Male> on april first <Speech_Male> we will be <Speech_Male> announcing the winner <Speech_Male> of that overall. Vote <Speech_Male> on our website. <Speech_Male> I <Speech_Male> q two u. s. <Silence> dot org. <Speech_Male> So <Speech_Male> that's the competition <Speech_Male> is over. This <Speech_Male> really been a <Speech_Male> an interesting <Speech_Male> and and fascinating <Speech_Male> debate. And <Speech_Male> i want to say to actually <Speech_Male> in bethann daiei <Speech_Male> in nick. <Speech_Male> Thank you for <Speech_Male> <Speech_Male> the way that you <Speech_Male> all did this. <Speech_Male> As as <Speech_Male> you know <Speech_Male> native debated with us <Speech_Male> before and <Speech_Male> it's great to have <Speech_Male> the the <Speech_Male> other three of you joining <Speech_Male> us. I hope someday <Speech_Male> we can be doing this on <Speech_Male> a live stage <Speech_Male> in front of a live <Speech_Male> audience because that <Speech_Male> energy can be terrific <Speech_Male> and the interaction <Speech_Male> in even <Speech_Male> even more <Speech_Male> powerful and robust that <Speech_Male> it was here today <Speech_Male> but even with <Speech_Male> the way it was today <Speech_Music_Male> i just want to say i appreciate <Speech_Music_Male> how <Speech_Music_Male> clearly <Speech_Male> you were actually <Speech_Male> listening <Speech_Male> to each other even as you <Speech_Male> disagreed with each other. <Speech_Male> That's something rare these <Speech_Male> days. It's <Speech_Male> a mark of <Speech_Male> what we try to do it. Intelligence <Speech_Male> squared <Speech_Male> and <Speech_Male> you see <Speech_Male> people with opposing views <Speech_Male> to be able to talk to <Speech_Male> each other <Speech_Male> disagree <Speech_Male> make their case and do so <Speech_Male> in a respectful way. <Speech_Male> It's what we <Speech_Male> do by bringing <Speech_Male> this program to millions of <Speech_Male> listeners around the world <Speech_Male> which <Speech_Male> we do through podcast and <Speech_Male> television and radio <Speech_Male> and we do it all for <Speech_Music_Male> free. It's something <Speech_Male> we a lot about <Speech_Male> here. At intelligence <Speech_Male> squared which operates. <Speech_Male> I want you to know is a nonprofit <Speech_Male> and <Speech_Male> if anyone out there wants to <Speech_Male> learn more about <Speech_Male> what we do or watch <Speech_Male> one of the more than two <Speech_Male> hundred debates. We've do <Speech_Male> so far. You <Speech_Male> can do that by going <Speech_Male> to our website <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> but as for this one <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> to all four <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> of you for the way <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> you you handle <Speech_Music_Male> this the way you hurt <Speech_Music_Male> each other out <Speech_Male> and nevertheless <Speech_Male> stood your ground and <Speech_Male> push back and push <Speech_Music_Male> back hard but did so <Speech_Music_Male> in a way that shed light. <Speech_Music_Male> I just wanna <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> say thank you. It's <Speech_Music_Male> a rare thing and <Speech_Music_Male> all four of <SpeakerChange> you were terrific <Speech_Music_Male> at it. So thank you <Speech_Music_Female> <Advertisement> to all of you john. <SpeakerChange> <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> I wanna thank you. Our <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> audience for tuning <Speech_Music_Male> into this episode intelligence <Speech_Music_Male> squared. I <Speech_Music_Male> hope that you enjoyed <Speech_Male> it just as much as we did. <Speech_Male> Intelligence squared <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> is a nonprofit <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> generously <Speech_Male> funded by listeners <Speech_Male> like you and by the <Speech_Music_Male> rosencrantz foundation <Speech_Music_Male> clare. Connor <Speech_Male> is our ceo. <Speech_Male> David ariosto <Speech_Male> is head of editorial. <Speech_Male> Amy <Speech_Music_Male> craft is chief of staff <Speech_Music_Male> leads. Production <Speech_Music_Male> and shale mera <Speech_Music_Male> is our consulting <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> producer. Jon <Speech_Music_Male> zilmer is our senior <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> researcher. <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> David whitmore is our <Speech_Male> <Advertisement> radio producer. <Speech_Music_Male> Robert rosencrantz <Speech_Music_Male> is our chairman. <Speech_Music_Male> And i'm your <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> host <SpeakerChange> john donvan. <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement>

Robert rosencrantz David whitmore David ariosto john donvan Jon shale mera Amy Connor millions today april first zilmer three one rosencrantz foundation more than two bethann daiei hundred debates listeners Speech_Male
"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

02:18 min | 7 months ago

"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

"An opponent Well i'm i'm not a minister podcast and so i i. I lack the lifless ability. But i would have to say that while i remain unconvinced that white people need to learn that they're not the default category before the black community can excel as a whole group. I think the daca dyson. And i have always agreed that there is definitely work to be done. Neither one of us are people who are interested in the idea of black people pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps. Many people have often thought that was my position. I think it's getting to the point where people realize that. That's not me if anybody thinks that's me they haven't read me in fifteen years. I wasn't even saying that so. I think that we agree. That work needs to be done. We sometimes differ on what the pathway to the mountain top might be. That was forty two seconds. That was really good. Michael can i put this question to you. Where do you basically feel that you in john. Mcwhorter do agree. We appreciate the effort necessary to make this nation a better place. We agree that that effort when engaged in with honesty and integrity will result in a nation that will be far stronger and far better than being appealed to buy the unmolested bigotry of a fascist president. Who refuses to acknowledge the humanity of all of its citizens when we can move beyond that to an acknowledgement of our common humanity and our common decency. the world in which we live is a better place on that. The two of you agree. I wanna thank you john. Mcwhorter and michael. Eric dyson for taking part in this conversation and for joining us. An intelligence squared. Thank you so much to both of you. Thank you for having. And i wanna thank you our audience for tuning into this episode of intelligence squared. I hope you enjoyed it and learn from it as much as we did. And i wanna let you know again that. Intelligence squared is a nonprofit that is generously funded by listeners. Like you and by the rosencrantz foundation. Klay connor is our ceo. David ariosto is headed better. To'real amy craft is chief of staff in leeds. Production shayo mara is consulting producer. Damon whitmore is our radio engineer. Robert rosencrantz chairman. And i'm your host. John donvan thank you so.

David ariosto John donvan Michael Eric dyson michael john Robert rosencrantz Klay connor forty two seconds two intelligence squared john. Mcwhorter Mcwhorter both Intelligence squared Damon whitmore one fifteen years shayo mara dyson
"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

04:34 min | 8 months ago

"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

"You know. The united states isn't newly a country full of crazy people run by reckless politicians. We have always been that to some extent anybody can get elected president in the united states. If they catch the wave at the right moment we have a very responsive political system but we also have the ability and that system fundamentally relies on the good judgment of americans. There's only so much you can do in the american political system to shield us from our own choices as we're seeing in the trump administration but what you also see is the good judgment of the american public if you think about the three things three policies that candidate trump campaign don restricting immigration The trade is bad for america and that alliances serve. Our allies are not us president. Trump's gina's politically was asking. I order questions. Why don't allies do more for their own. Defense and americans responded to that in twenty sixteen but what you have seen in public polling by for example the chicago council on global affairs is american attitudes have shifted and you see that shaft reflected in congressional and presidential elections where did hugely an americans now that they have seen the president trump solutions to those answers to those questions in action. They've changed their minds and they want something different. And that's what makes me so confident. That the apparatus of american democracy has the resiliency and the ability to solve our current problems and brian on the same question. Well i think. I think that's where we disagree because the reality of the twenty twenty election. Is that if you put enough people to fill a football stadium and change their votes you would have. Donald trump get reelected right if they were in the right states. So you know we're in a situation where we very narrowly averted four more years of trump and to be clear four more years of someone who showed himself to be over and over a racist. Someone who didn't believe in the institutions of democracy and the reason that he nearly one despite losing the popular vote by around seven million votes. I believe it was is because of the institution that's archaic. So you know to to my mind we have a compounding problem that even when americans in their wisdom make the right call the institution can derail them you know. Most people want stricter gun control. They don't want to ban guns but they want some movement on gun control. The senate has effectively made that impossible. So you know there. There are mechanisms by which the popular will which does shift and does get responsive and does actually learn from its. Mistakes is stymied repeatedly by some of these arcane institutions that end up entrenching that are simply minority extremist views. And that's what i. That's what i really worry about going. Forward that biden's presidency will be a massive course correction of course correction that follows. The the majority will on a huge number of topics because a minority that's elected by a minority is going to wheel disproportionate political power in the institutions. That we are stuck with for the foreseeable future. And that's why. I am more pessimistic. Even though i think i diagnose similar problems brian. Thank you for that and corey. Schalke thank you as well Corey it's great to have you these many times on intelligence squared and brian when we return to a world. When we're all in the same room together we would love to have you on our stage to debate because you brought so much insight and intelligence to this conversation as both of you did. So i wanna thank you for For debating debating in a respectful way and also for shedding light. Giving us really something to think about so korean. Brian thank you very much. Thank you and thank you everybody for tuning into this episode of intelligence squared which was recorded on january. Twelve twenty twenty one. Intelligence squared is a nonprofit funded generously by listeners. Like you by the rosencrantz foundation klay connor our ceo. David ariosto is head of editorial. Amy craft is chief of staff and leads production. Mary dewey and david whitmore are our radio producers. Rosencrantz our chairman. And i'm your host. John donvan thank you so much for joining us and we'll see next time..

Mary dewey John donvan Brian David ariosto january david Trump rosencrantz Corey Donald trump Amy craft intelligence squared trump both four more years american biden around seven million votes corey Schalke
"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

05:29 min | 8 months ago

"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

"All four at knows. Enough to be the risk taker. When it's the right thing to do to be conservative but it's the right thing to do etcetera etcetera. So so i hear you saying that we need conservatives and we need liberals and we need everybody between even the libertarians and so two to wrap up the conversation. The point that you just made. We've been more polarized in the last few years than we were in the eighties and nineties. I think most of us see that as a problem. It's a concern Because it suggests the lack of common ground which suggests the possibility of rupture of series kind That we may already be experiencing. That could get worse knows. So what do we do with this information if if the goal is to at least find a little bit more common ground without having to sacrifice your positions without having to sacrifice who you are even or even without having to try to change yourself which it sounds like you're saying is not really possible what we do with this information for us. We can't change but it's very tiring you can act out of character. But it's very tiring. If i stayed in one sentence i was hit. It's adaptive to understand that other people hold their values not likely to change and their values really can be of some use. We need to put our heads together. Conservatives and liberals are like two feet we need each other to get ahead while well. So that's your message. We need each other and boy. It sure doesn't feel like money. People are feeling that way right now. Well i think we're going to see. Continue to see paul. No they are. But mr trump is the pot and i think other things have stirred the pot. I mean you know. The internet enables people today to only follow the their tribe You know when we were all watching. Just abc nbc and cbs. We're all getting the same news. We're not getting the same news anymore. It's amazing how many people i ask who are liberals if they've ever watched fox news and they say that and i've asked conservatives would you ever watch msnbc oh no Has though so. I do think that the internet is is enabling people to stick with their tribe not understand others. I also think that women piling into the job market is changing the social order and that is amping up conservatives to be afraid of of of change. Well there's a debate. We can have down the road on our stage. But i i wanna i wanna i wanna point donna. Wrap this up by pointing out that when you debate it on Whether dating apps were banned for romance or not in your arguing that they were not that night you won the debate you and your partner won the debate and you did so precise weighing the more of the audience to vote for your side then for the other side between the first and the second vote. And i looked at the numbers and you won because nine percent of the audience. That initially voted against you was per swayed by you to change their minds and vote for your side so i don't know what happened there but those people left behind deep conviction. Maybe it wasn't so deep but they left behind a conviction that you were wrong and came around by the end of the evening to thinking that you were right. So what does that tell us. Well thank. i'd like to say that electrical lemon number one. These are not dating sites all they are is introducing sites. When you meet somebody your ancient brain clicks into all of it but hell. I don't mean in the sense of the specifics. I'm i'm talking about the ability for people to change their minds. I think they want to change their minds. I think they want to change their minds about love. Said amazing what people will do when they are in love. Forty six forty eight percent of people right now would Believe you can fall in love with somebody who has very different political beliefs. Well that's less than it used to be but it's still a lot of people you know. We are driven to love. I mean i'll say it again. We pine love. We live from lovely. Kills a lovely die filip in that part of humanity. We tend to be flexible. Helen fisher. I wanna thank you so much for joining us talking about this topic. That goes under the heading of geopolitics. It's been fascinating. It sounds like you're going to be publishing a lot more. We're looking forward to seeing it. And as i said we would love to get you back on a stay on our stage to debate. Whatever it's going to be where you bring up poetry and science together helen. Thanks so much for joining us. Thanks so much john. Episode of intelligence squared was recorded on december. I twenty twenty intelligence. Squared is a nonprofit generously. Funded by listeners. Like you and by the rosencrantz foundation. Klay connor is our ceo. David ariosto. he's head of editorial. Amy craft has chief of staff and leads production damon. Whitmore is our radio producer. Robert rosencrantz chairman. And i'm your host. John donvan thanks so much for joining us panoply..

mr trump msnbc fox news nbc cbs abc donna paul Helen fisher rosencrantz foundation Klay connor David ariosto helen Amy craft john Robert rosencrantz Whitmore
"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

02:19 min | 9 months ago

"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

"Really an opponent. Well i'm i'm not a minister. I'm a podcast. During so i i i ll lack the malysz lewis ability but i would have to say that i while i remain unconvinced. That white people need to learn that they're not the default category before the black communities can excel as a whole group. I think the daca dyson. And i have always agreed that there is definitely work to be done. Neither one of us are people who are interested in the idea of black people pulling themselves up by their own bootstraps. Many people have often thought that was my position. I think it's getting to the point where people realize that. That's not me if anybody thinks that's me they haven't read me in fifteen years. I wasn't even saying that we agree. That work needs to be done. We just sometimes differ on what the pathway to the mountaintop that was forty two seconds. That was really good. Michael can i put the same question to you. Where do you basically feel that you in john. Mcwhorter do agree. We appreciate the effort necessary to make this nation a better place. We agree that that effort when engaged in and integrity will result in a nation. That will be far stronger and far better than being appealed to buy the unmolested bigotry of a fascist president who refuses to acknowledge the humanity of all of its citizens when we can move beyond that to an acknowledgement of our common humanity and our common decency. the world in which we live is a better place on that. The two of you agree. I wanna thank you John mcwhorter michael. Eric dyson for taking part in this conversation and for joining us and intelligence squared. Thank you so much to both of you. Thank you for having. And i wanna thank you our audience for tuning into this episode of intelligence squared. I hope you enjoyed it and learn from it as much as we did. And i want to let you know again that. Intelligence squared is a nonprofit that is generously funded by listeners. Like you and by the rosencrantz foundation. Klay connor is our ceo. David ariosto is headed better. To'real amy craft has chief of staff in leads. Production shale mara is our consulting producer. David whitmore is our radio engineer. Robert rosencrantz is our chairman. And i'm your host. John donvan thank you so much for joining us..

malysz lewis daca dyson Mcwhorter John mcwhorter michael Eric dyson Michael john rosencrantz foundation Klay connor David ariosto amy craft David whitmore Robert rosencrantz John donvan
"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

01:54 min | 10 months ago

"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

"And i wanna remind you it's the side that sways the most votes between the first and the second vote that will be declared our winter. All right it's all in now. I have the final results once again. Remember it's the difference between the first and the second vote that determines our winter. Here's how it went on the resolution. Stop worrying about deficits before the debate and pulling our live audience. Fifty five percent were in agreement with the resolution. Twenty nine percent were against and sixteen percent. Were undecided. Those are the first results again. It's going to be the difference between the first and second that determines our winner on the second vote. It went like this. The resolution stop worrying about national deficits. Their first vote was fifty five percent. Their second vote was seventy three percent. They pulled up. Eighteen percentage points. That's going to be the number to be the team against the resolution there first of all it was twenty nine percent their second vote when down to twenty four percent means. This debate goes to the team arguing for the resolution. Stop worrying about deficits are congratulations to that team. But our congratulations to all four of you for taking part in this debate and doing so with such civility and intelligence. Those are our hallmarks. Congratulations to all of you. Thanks to everyone who took part and thank you for me. John donvan intelligence squared. Us we'll see you next time. Thank you for tuning into this. Special episode of that's debatable presented in partnership with bloomberg media and sponsored by ibm intelligence. Squared is a nonprofit generously. Funded by listeners. Like you and by the rosencrantz foundation. Klay connor is our ceo. David ariosto is head of editorial amy craft has chief of staff leads production and shell mera is our consulting producer crystal hawes and damon whitmore our our radio producers robert rosencrantz as our chairman. And i'm your host. John donvan panoply..

John donvan rosencrantz foundation Klay connor David ariosto amy craft bloomberg Squared ibm crystal hawes damon whitmore robert rosencrantz
"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

06:22 min | 10 months ago

"david ariosto" Discussed on Intelligence Squared U.S. Debates

"The courts has proven that you're wrong and yash he'll go around and say no they're all democrats But sometimes it's hard for him to do that. He doesn't always win with that. And i and i just think that's. That's it's the. It's not the best choice but given the hand rehab. It's the best choice we have pick your battles so it's like you know you have to be careful and you have to be careful that if you're just you know you're just get hysterical about this and you choose every way to push back. Some of those ways are gonna that backfire. I think right now saying we should. He shouldn't be allowed to use the courts. And i know that's not exactly what he is saying. But it's beginning to sound like that from some people who are making this argument that does not sound democratic. That's illiberal and i understand the distinction and it's subtle. And i got it but i think far better position to take is one of confidence here and just say go ahead because our institutions are strong in. You're not seeing that. But i'm wondering are you somewhat heartened by. The results have come so far from virtually everyone of these cases that has come to conclusion being dismissed thrown out turned down. I am and so just. I think this. Actually i'll help serve rebecca's argument here by just quoted in a couple of lines from these cases to make sort of. Let's hope rebecca's right and this helps persuade people right. So judge tim. Kenny in denying requested delay. The certification of michigan election results that this court finds while there assertions made by the plaintiffs. There is no evidence in support of those assertions judge cynthia stevens wrote quote on this factual record. I have no basis to find that. There's a substantial likelihood of success on the merits as relates. To this case. So you know. I think that it's we are getting those decisions but but a really important underscore or record that you have one hundred and fifty people vote. You're gonna have Irregularities errors here that's just the nature of the size of it but the issue is you won't have anything that's that's nearly on a material scale To tip the outcome of the election right. This was not at the end of the day a close election but the purpose of these cases is to try to find one little threat one little scintilla of evidence here there and then through propaganda and disinformation stirred up into a fake controversy. That sows doubt in our electoral system. That's what the case are being used for. And i think we have to be very careful to guard against that all of us as as consumers of the media flowing. That's take hold. What do you think what sort of president is being set by what we're going through right now and or or or what what. Habits are being Being developed in our politicians in other words. Are we going to see this happen election after election after election. Do you think or is this one time. Only that's my fear right that You know it's interesting. Rebecca said the very beginning that lots of people bring sometimes frivolous cases. But we wanna keep the court doors wide open And i i definitely agree. Wanna keep the doors wide open. But we're talking about lots of people here we're talking about the head of state and one of the things that one of the things that heads of state do In in countries is they sat norms in the established patterns of behavior. I mean and. I think that you know the new york times editorial on the way that a prison. Trump's rhetoric has changed norms of behavior has led to more bullying in school. Yards is just a sign of how dangerous it can be when the president sets bad norms of behavior and so in the head of state signals to the public. That courts are places where you don't have to have a legitimate dispute to resolve but you can deploy them as tools in cynical ways to fight election results. You don't want my fear is that becomes. Enormous thing gets deployed in election after election in ways that are harmful for elections article for our democracy. What do you think on the question. Rebecca is are we seeing a new normal here. I mean you know i. I can't look into the future. But i don't think so. I think that the you know like many leaders. He's unique in certain ways unique in what he can get away with. There's a kind of swagger that he has that works for him and he's able through his own sort of i think it's actually his own conviction in his always being right that he's able to convince other people that he's right but i don't you know i i just don't think this is general liable. Do i am worried about the question. About norms and hound arms get eroded. And i think that's significant. But i don't think that the actually filing lawsuits is really one of those things that i'm most worried about. I mean i think it's the norm being broken not conceding and not sitting down with the successor. I mean those things other man there. Concerning but i don't think those are necessarily starting a precedent and i don't think there's any reason to think that the lawsuits would be. That would be something that would pick up as as being popular all the rhetoric. When will the next few weeks are going to tell us a lot and if things were perhaps we can have the two of you back to continue this conversation. I wanna say this that. I've really enjoyed the degree to which You were able to disagree in a respectful way. And i say that recognizing that the two of you do share the same basic set of facts in the same idea of what is reality sometimes more so than some of our other debates that made it more Made it easier to have this conversation. But it's clear that you have a very very distinctive disagreement on this question of whether the the courts The reputation of the courts are being permanently corroded by this or at least temporarily quoted by this or not and whether this is good for democracy but i appreciate the your your respect for one another and that came across and you shed a lot of light taught us a lot of things so rebecca and i wanna thank you. Very much for joining us on intelligence squared. Thank you for having us. Thank you so much. I also learned a lot from ian and on this has been a great conversation. So thank you for having me. And i want to thank all of you for tuning into this. Episode of intelligence. squared intelligence. Squared is a nonprofit generously. Funded by listeners. Like you and by the rosencrantz foundation clare. Connor is our ceo. David ariosto is head of editorial. Amy craft as chief of staff and leads production. Damon whitmore is our radio producer. Robert rosencrantz our chairman. And i'm your host john donvan. Thanks so much for joining us. We'll see you next time..

rebecca president new york times john donvan rosencrantz foundation cynthia stevens michigan Kenny David ariosto tim Damon whitmore Robert rosencrantz Squared Trump Amy craft Connor Yards chief of staff ceo chairman