13 Episode results for "Dave Reichert"
Wondery Presents American Innovations: Lie Detector
"On may seventh nineteen eighty-four on a blustery day in seattle. Gary ridgway sat in an interrogation room strapped around. His arm was a lie detector after answering a series of questions. The investigators told him he was free to go. Gary would soon come to be known as one of the most prolific serial killers in united states history. But that day he had beaten a lie detector test and walked out of the police station of free man when the lie detector. I found its way into police stations. It was touted to the press as one hundred percent accurate but soon the cracks began to show. Those claiming innocence would fail the test and as the green river killer proved he could best the machine. Its popularity continued to grow today. Lie detector tests are an estimated two billion dollar industry and they are still admissible in court under certain conditions. But do they actually work. You're about to hear a preview of american innovations light detector. While you're listening subscribed to american innovations on amazon music apple podcasts or listen early and add free in the wondering app. It's seven nineteen eighty four seattle washington in the king. County sheriff's headquarters. Deputy dave reichert stairs through a one way mirror into an interrogation room. He sips lukewarm coffee from a styrofoam cup watching as a colleague inside the room. Titans of blood pressure cuff around the right. Bicep of a person of interest named gary ridgway. Another deputy saidles up next to reichert and nods ridgway. He does kind of look like someone who kills prostitutes right. Reichert takes in ridgeway. He scrawny with light brown hair. Flopping over his forehead narrow is and a wisp of a mustache lining his upper lip have a certain rat like quality to. I'll give you that. But i'll still think the cab drivers are man not this guy. Over the past two years. Police have discovered more than two dozen bodies in the wooded areas outside seattle near the green river girls and young women many of them prostitutes or runaways. All of them strangle reich art and his colleagues have a prime suspect a cabdriver who admits to knowing five of the victims but a witness says they saw one of the victims. Get into a pickup truck. Similar to the one ridgway drives sort across every t and dot every i. They've brought him in for questioning and to give him a lie detector test. The polygraph operator straps a cord around ridgway's chest and places sensors on two of his fingers. He checks the wires running back to a small metal machine resting on the table in front of him then fiddles with a few of the machines. Dials switches satisfied. He looks up at the mirror and nods at the deputies behind. It mr ridgway. You have consented to a polygraph examination. Otherwise known as a lie detector test. I'm going to ask you a series of questions and determine whether or not you have answered them truthfully. Are you ready to begin. Ridgway just are the polygraph operator. Over the machine studying the graph paper it solely spits out on the paper undulating lines. Indicate changes in ridgway's breathing rate blood pressure pulse and sweat rate in a disaffected. Monotone the operator asks ridgway. A series of questions is your true. Last name ridgway. Yes in the observation. Room breaker leans forward. It doesn't matter how many polygraph examinations he's watched it's always a thrill it so efficient in nine questions it can determine if a suspect is lying or telling the truth. Have you ever caused the death of a prostitute. No before you were thirty years. Old did you ever injure anyone without provocation. No when the operators finished with his questions he unhooked ridgway from the machine tears. The paper from the polygraph and heads to the door sit tight. A detective will be with you shortly. Ridgway nods running his hand over his mustache in the observation room. The polygraph operator spreads out the paper with ridgway's results on a table in front of red card and the other deputy in my opinion he passed with flying colors records. Colleague shakes his head and points to a spike in the readings. What about this. Doesn't this indicate he was lying. Yes but that was in response to a control question where we expect suspects to lie. We know he assaulted. Another kid is juvenile so we asked before you were thirty. Did you ever injure anyone sure. Enough is blood pressure and pulse jump. Now if you compare that to his results here That's a much smaller reaction. Exactly that's the question where i asked if he'd ever murdered prostitute is no change in pulse or blood pressure at all. Reichert gives other deputy smug look. I told you this was a wild goose chase. Let's come loose. Break arts strides into the interrogation room where ridgway sits with his legs crossed. All right. mr ridgway you passed the test and you're free to go. Thanks for coming in ridgeway smiles. No trouble at all. He puts on his coat and heads to the door. Detective record watches them. Go with a sense of relief with ridgway crossed off their list. He can turn his attention back to more. Credible suspects like that cabdriver. Outside in the parking lot gary ridgway one of the most prolific serial killers in us history climbs into the cab of his black ford pickup. And let out a heavy sigh. He didn't he fooled the lie detector and that means is now free to kill again. From wonder i'm steven johnson. And this is american innovations. Humans are shockingly bad at deducing whether or not someone is telling the truth. According to some studies most people can only identify ally fifty four percent of the time about the same as if they flipped a coin. Even supposed experts like police and intelligence officers. Who are trained in. Spotting deception generally aren't much better. Still people have long suspected that the human body reacts physically when we tell lies invade us the most ancient scriptures hinduism there are directions for identifying a poisoner including watching to see if the suspect rubs his toe on the ground and shivers mar of rams a theologian in the ninth century recommended. That alleged liars have their arms thrust into boiling water. Only liars. He claimed would suffer burns in the early twentieth century. Scientists came up with their own physical tests to identify liars. Those early lie detectors became fixtures police stations government offices and loss prevention departments and while the new tests were less onerous than previous methods. There have long been doubts about their accuracy but despite those reservations the lie detectors promise to reveal people's inner minds has proved impossible to resist by two thousand eighteen. An estimated two point five million lie detector tests were conducted per year making it a two billion dollar industry. This is the story of the origins of the lie. Detector was the brainchild of three men who were by turns colleagues and fierce rivals here. Invention took them from the labs of harvard to the police interrogation rooms of berkeley california eventually to courtrooms around the country moving to hollywood this episode one of our two part series on the lie detector. The heart of a liar.
Wondery Presents American Innovations: Lie Detector
"On may seventh nineteen eighty-four on a blustery day in seattle. Gary ridgway sat in an interrogation room strapped around. His arm was a lie detector after answering a series of questions. The investigators told him he was free to go. Gary would soon come to be known as one of the most prolific serial killers in united states history. But that day he had beaten a lie detector test and walked out of the police station of free man when the lie detector. I found its way into police stations. It was touted to the press as one hundred percent accurate but soon the cracks began to show those claiming innocence with phil. The tests and as the green river killer proved he could best the machine. Its popularity continued to grow today. Lie detector tests are an estimated two billion dollar industry and they are still admissible in court under certain conditions. But do they actually work. You're about to hear a preview of american innovations lie detector while you're listening subscribed to american innovations on amazon music apple podcasts or listen early and add free in the wondering app. It's seven nineteen eighty four seattle washington in the king. County sheriff's headquarters. Deputy dave reichert stairs through a one way mirror into an interrogation room. He sips lukewarm coffee from a styrofoam cup watching as a colleague inside the room. Titans of blood pressure cuff around the right. Bicep of a person of interest named gary ridgway. Another deputy saidles up next to reichert and nods ridgway. He does kind of look like someone who kills prostitutes right. Reichert takes in ridgeway. He scrawny with light brown hair. Flopping over his forehead narrow is and a wisp of a mustache lining his upper lip he does have a certain rat like quality to. I'll give you that. But i'll still think the cab drivers are man not this guy over the past two years. Police have discovered more than two dozen bodies in the wooded areas outside seattle near the green river girls and young women many of them prostitutes or runaways. All of them strangle reich art and his colleagues have a prime suspect a cabdriver who admits to knowing five of the victims but a witness says they saw one of the victims. Get into a pickup truck. Similar to the one ridgway drives sort across every t and dot every i. They've brought him in for questioning and to give him a lie detector test. The polygraph operator straps a cord around ridgway's chest and places sensors on two of his fingers. He checks the wires running back to a small metal machine resting on the table in front of him then fiddles with a few of the machines dials and switches satisfied. He looks up at the mirror and nods at the deputies behind. It mr ridgway. You have consented to a polygraph examination. Otherwise known as a lie detector test. I'm going to ask you a series of questions and determine whether or not you have answered them truthfully. Are you ready to begin. Ridgway just are the polygraph operator. Over the machine studying the graph paper it solely spits out on the paper undulating lines. Indicate changes in ridgway's breathing rate blood pressure pulse and sweat rate in a disaffected. Monotone the operator asks ridgway. A series of questions is your true. Last name ridgway. Yes in the observation. Room breaker leans forward. It doesn't matter how many polygraph examinations he's watched it's always a thrill it so efficient in nine questions it can determine if a suspect is lying or telling the truth. Have you ever caused the death of a prostitute. No before you were thirty years. Old did you ever injure anyone without provocation. No when the operators finished with his questions he unhooked ridgway from the machine tears. The paper from the polygraph and heads to the door sit tight. A detective will be with you shortly. Ridgway nods running his hand over his mustache in the observation room. The polygraph operator spreads out the paper with ridgway's results on a table in front of red card and the other deputy in my opinion he passed with flying colors records. Colleague shakes his head and points to a spike in the readings. What about this. Doesn't this indicate he was lying. Yes but that was in response to a control question where we expect suspects to lie. We know he assaulted. Another kid is juvenile so we asked before you were thirty. Did you ever injure anyone sure. Enough is blood pressure and pulse jump. Now if you compare that to his results here That's a much smaller reaction. Exactly that's the question where i asked. If he'd ever murdered prostitute there's no change in pulse pulsar blood pressure at all. Reichert gives other deputy smug look. I told you this was a wild goose chase. Let's come loose reichert. Strides into the interrogation room where ridgway sits with his legs crossed. All right mr ridgway. You passed the test and you're free to go. Thanks for coming in ridgeway smiles. No trouble at all. He puts on his coat and heads to the door. Detective record watches them. Go with a sense of relief with ridgway crossed off their list. He can turn his attention back to more. Credible suspects like that cabdriver. Outside in the parking lot gary ridgway one of the most prolific serial killers in us history climbs into the cab of his black ford pickup. And let out a heavy sigh. He didn't he fooled the lie detector and that means is now free to kill again. From wonder i'm steven johnson. And this is american innovations. Humans are shockingly bad at deducing whether or not someone is telling the truth. According to some studies most people can only identify ally fifty four percent of the time about the same as if they flipped a coin. Even supposed experts like police and intelligence officers. Who are trained in. Spotting deception generally aren't much better. Still people have long suspected that the human body reacts physically when we tell lies invade us the most ancient scriptures hinduism there are directions for identifying a poisoner including watching to see if the suspect rubs his toe on the ground and shivers mar of rams a theologian in the ninth century recommended. That alleged liars have their arms thrust into boiling water. Only liars. He claimed would suffer burns in the early twentieth century. Scientists came up with their own physical tests to identify liars. Those early lie detectors became fixtures police stations government offices and loss prevention departments and while the new tests were less onerous than previous methods. There have long been doubts about their accuracy but despite those reservations the lie detectors promise to reveal people's inner minds has proved impossible to resist by two thousand eighteen. An estimated two point five million lie detector tests were conducted per year making it a two billion dollar industry. This is the story of the origins of the lie. Detector was the brainchild of three men who were by turns colleagues and fierce rivals here. Invention took them from the labs of harvard to the police interrogation rooms of berkeley california eventually to courtrooms around the country moving to hollywood this episode one of our two part series on the lie detector. The heart of a liar.
8th District Congressional race has a bipartisan theme
"This is k. o w I'm Kim Malcolm. One of the most competitive congressional races in Washington State. This year is in the eighth district east of Seattle that used to be Republican Dave Reichert seat today. The incumbent is Democrat Kim Schreier who flip the seat in two, thousand, eighteen she's pediatrician her opponent. This year is Republican Jesse Janson a former program manager at Amazon and Microsoft and an army vet. Both are talking about bipartisanship but in this time of scorched earth rhetoric, what does that really mean? K. U. A., W. Politics Reporter. David, Hyde joins us with more David Hi. So remind us where the eight is and what's it story It's due east of Seattle and in two thousand eighteen Kim Schreier became the first. Democrat. To win out there since the district was created, which was back in the early nineteen eighties and today, it's one of just eight congressional districts in the entire United States where neither party has an advantage, this is according to the cook political report's partisanship index index which sounds pretty unusual. Yeah. These days that's really unusual but University of Washington. History Professor Margaret o'meara was telling me back in the seventies and eighties. There were a lot more districts like the eighth and that led to a different kind. Of politician who was often more interested in compromise o'meara says that golden age of cooperation really starts to break down in the nineteen nineties, which is when Republican Newt Gingrich became speaker of the House he's famous of course for basically just saying, no, obstructing the Clinton administration. So the campaign in the eight, this year is in some ways a bit of a back to that previous era of cooperation and both candidates claim to be the most bipartisan incumbent. Democrat Kim Schreier says, she works hard to get to know her congressional colleagues on both sides of the aisle because I think that when we Know each other when the we see the humanity in each other. When we meet each other's families, it is so much easier to build trust and work together. Okay. So what evidence is there than that? She works as a moderate in a bipartisan way. You know on the issues, she sounds a lot more like Joe Biden than Bernie Sanders. So kind of a moderate Democrat I asked her for examples and one thing she pointed to is a bill she cosponsored with a tea party Republican from Texas to stop the spread of misinformation about vaccines. This person was a fellow doctor and Schreier says, look I'm a doctor who's able to work with other doctors including Republicans in Congress, and this sort of thing like a misinformation about vaccines could become a big asset to Washington state in the country during a pandemic and by the way she's the only female doctor in. Congress right now, compelling anecdote there will does she govern in a bipartisan way? In. Total she's introduced eleven bipartisan bills. Remember she's been since she just was elected in twenty eighteen but according to one index of bipartisanship Schreier comes in two hundred, eighty eighth in Congress, and that's actually a lower score than a lot of her colleagues from Washington State's delegation question is is that a problem for voters in this race and I think it sort of depends how did they feel about working with the Republican Party right now? Well how about shires opponent Jesse Janson he says he signed a pledge to co-sponsor a democratic bill once a month and meet with democratic member of Congress every. Week. You know one of the first conversations that I hope to have once elected is with Alexander Ghazi Cortez because she is a fantastic role model for my two daughters. David that is not how. Is usually talk about. The, the high profile I remember Congress from New York I mean I understand his aim talking nicely about Democrats in a bid for more support but would he really work with Democrats and it's a great question One of the issues he points to is climate change. He says, he believes the science, which I guess is an accomplishment for some folks these days he's got a tech background. So tense to emphasize free market tech solutions like replacing coal plants here and in the developing world with next generation nuclear power. But when it comes to working with Democrats, he's opposed to carbon tax, for example, which many economists and Democrats including Kim Schreier support the other really big thorny issue for Jensen. Says he's going to be voting for president trump and it's hard to say how moderate? That's GONNA sound to a lot of voters out there in the eighth who in two thousand sixteen went for Hillary. Clinton. KYW's David Hyde laying out the race in Washington's eighth Congressional district for us. David. Thank you for this thanksgiving.
Episode 09: Lymphedema Advocacy: The Lymphedema Treatment Act and How You Can Be An Advocate on World Lymphedema Day March 6th.
"Podcast. I'm buddy Westbrook, certified therapist and the host of lymph Edina podcast. The purpose of limiting podcast is provide answers and explanations for people affected by the disease. Limiting this podcast patients, family members medical professionals and anyone interested in them for Dima each week. I discuss a new topic related to this disease to help you learn more and navigate better the journey ahead. Disclaimer as a certified limiting therapist all information provided is based on my professional experiences in education. I recommend anyone who feels they have lymph Dima or have been medically diagnosed with lymph Dima seek in-person medical treatment from certified liberty Methodist, I'm so passionate about teaching others about lymph Dima that I created this podcast. Thanks for joining me. I hope you're ready to lend something new today. This is episode nine of lengthy podcast. Look back for another episode of limiting podcast today. Have the pleasure of introducing you all to Judy Woodward duty Woodward was born with Linda Dima due to vascular malformation called klippel-trenaunay syndrome, like many with Dima she went untreated as a child and that under treated for the next decade into adulthood, often hearing the phrase from doctors, there's nothing we can do you will just have to live with it. Judy was fortunate along the way to find the national lithium-ion network and MLD therapist in Dallas where she received proper treatment and compression opening up possibilities for an active life and future health as a former art director in advertising Judy volunteers for many creative projects anything from building to choreography to graphic design. Along with her engineer turned entrepreneur has been of almost thirty years. They're raising two daughters and enjoy traveling and the arts after years of Emily, and compression, she is thrilled to now be playing tennis on a team judy's life has been blessed. Despite the struggles of lymph diva it's filled with faith love and insight. She is a member of the national liberty networks. Limp science advocacy program and looks forward to employing her creative skills to solve problems and build awareness for the Olympic community. She is also a board member of the Olympic advocacy group. Hey, judy. Welcome to the podcast. Oh, hey, great to be here. Thank you. Thank you for being on with us. So I wanna point out real quick to the audience that my connection with you is that I have served or volunteered in Washington DC to help advocate for the Olympic Matric act. So I was so impressed by your leadership skills and your organization for the Texas team that I just knew whenever I was on the topic of the new treatment actor that I wanted to have you on. So I really appreciate you agreeing to being here today grand. So glad you thought of me. I I remember also how much fun we had in DC 'em. So glad that I can help you as you try to get the word out about lymph Dima. Thanks. So this month is among awareness month and Wednesday, March six is world fifty my day. So today's. Podcasts focus is on advocacy for lymph Dima. So I want to start first with what your role within the lymph Dima advocacy group. Well, I am I serve on the board of the lymph demon advocacy group. I am technically the chair awareness this time, which means that I'm helping just get the word out in kind of communications way than with the group for about five years. And I would like to point out to anyone listening a lot of the graphic design is a lot of your work. Correct. Yes. Much of it not all of it that much it is. And I've also I found if I couldn't do it. I found an artist to help help us. So yes, that's been one of the gratifying things about working with the group kind of been able to use my skills and background as they've needed. It. Well, one of my favorite pieces of work of yours is the not one disease poster I keep it up on my desk. And I try to have it in front of everyone's eyesight when they come into the clinic because they'll read in this. I didn't know that was associated with limiting too. So I really enjoy that one. It's one of my favorites that stood here. I'll also just share. It wasn't just me. That's a team effort to. It's like I I was able to help direct that win. And we also had a team over at. The other group that one of the manufacturers they had they in volunteered some of their team to help us with that as well to do some work than it was that was a collaborative effort. And of course, we had our medical adviser and people giving the facts and figures, so it's fun to be part of a team effort like that. So for you being so involved with the Olympic advocacy group. You probably know whole lot about project the Olympic team a treatment act for anyone listening who may not be familiar. Can you explain what the limiting treatment act is? All right. Well, the liberty Metron act is a Bill in congress that has. The purpose of Bill is to provide for Medicare coverage for doctor prescribed compressions. Applies and gets currently Medicare does not cover the compression supplies, which is the key cornerstone of treatment for limiting patients, and it will also serve to just enable patients to maintain their health a long term basis, and it reduces the healthier healthcare costs associated with the disease that can come from complications last year was a pivotal year for the lymph ima treatment act. Can you explain why? Well, yes, we last your each year actually that we've been in congress are Bill has increased in its support. And it's a very good story. And it's apparently as we've learned it's not it's not an easy thing to do to get cosponsors and get support in congress. And so over the years, it actually started back with this particular Bill almost nine years ago and each year, we've gained more more co sponsors last year at the end of the year. We have had were the top supported healthcare Bill all of congress. With what was it? Three hundred fifty one cosponsors total bi-cameral bipartisan included, people from all fifty states this eighty four percent support of congress. So that was a big year. However, I mean our goal is to pass the Bill. So we did not pass it. But it was really good. And we're really poised to. Have more success in this coming congress? So last September Olympia directive was included in the appropriations minibus that was passed. Can you explain how this helps to elevate us in this next tier? Yes, we did get passage of report language that included. Are our issue about getting Medicare coverage for Medicare for in the CMS department? So the report language was actually was written. So that is guide it guided CMS encourage them to cover the cost of compression supplies now was not a directive in mandate. So we stopped short of having the effective making them do it. But apparently in congress. This is a very good thing at the very big step that both the house and Senate pass this language and. That really helps us in a number of ways it helps from what we've learned that in the future that set you up for the next your post appreciates year where you could get more a stronger directive, and it also as you're going and asking for for passage of the Bill in in a larger vehicle or even as a standalone Bill gives it a lot of weight to it. That's like we can point to see we had this much support over appropriations who are very highly respected committee. And so it's a very big plus for our Bill has the I know in the past whenever we were in the orientation part of the lobby days. They will talk about the ways, and means committee has the ways and means committee met on this this particular. Piece of legislation. On this year or was last year. Last lash, they have been the ways and means committee, Dave Reichert, who was the. Lead sponsor for the Bill. He he serves ways committee ways and means committee, and they were taking the primary role for the spill, and they were trying trying to get it passed. But they were also simultaneously trying to work with even directly and see if they would just enact this measure regular just straightforward regulatory when they felt like that they had exhausted. Most every channel there they really put more effort into than passing it toward the end of the year, and they just really ran out of time. But we were able to meet with their committee health committee and really get into the details. They have done taken some more steps. I mean, they're very serious about it. We were encouraged by that. And I think in this coming congress. We are there's been a flip. And but that is actu-. Really doesn't present a problem might be advantage in some ways. So as we've seen things just move forward. In those conversations we had just continue. I think he learned a lot from that. I just feel like every step taken a set us up for the chances of getting a very Bill because I think what we've learned is there's the devil's in the details, and we don't just wanna pass any Bill. We don't want to just pass this no matter what we wanna make sure that that as this Bill is enacted that we have Seamus is knowledgeable about what we're tending that. They've put some thought into it that it can be written in implemented with patients in mind. And that we get an outcome. That is really beneficial for everyone. And this year. What's the current state of the L TA? Okay. Well, this year, we are pleased to announce that we are we have Senate Bill introduced as of I guess a week or so ago Senate Bill five one eight because you know, every every two years there's new congressional session. And this year's session. We had to reintroduce the Bill we did not change anything except I think a an implementation date. It was a minor detail. So we were able to introduce that we have our Senate Bill is led by Senator can't well again and co lead with new Senator new to lead is Senator young from Indiana, and he is on the Senate finance committee. It's very good. And so the two of them are really good team. And they are very excited about it. We also at the same time we introduced that Bill. We also had thirty original sponsors that joined in and from many states, and I urge everyone to look at our website and see if your Senator is one of those co-sponsors, you should probably go in there. And thank then, we have our phone numbers listed on the website. It's really great news. And it's very bypass list almost equal and Democrats Republicans are Consol has both senators on all ready sodas, Oklahoma Mississippi. Alaska. So just go ahead and check it out. It's really good news for us. That is really good news. How side we are on the verge of of introducing that Bill. We have you know. A new lead sponsor because our champion from last year represented Reichert his retired. But in place Representative Jan Schakowsky. And she is teaming up with Blumenauer from ways and means she's on the energy and commerce committee, and we will have. Two more Republicans are going to come forward on that. I think that soon as we get that figured out. Finally, actually, one of them on ways, and means will be represent Kelly from Pennsylvania where I used to live in that district little so that's really nice for me. And we are still about to have the fourth person Republican from the committee on energy and commerce. So just in a few weeks that should be done. How can someone become an advocate for the L TA? Well, it's very easy. Really the best way to do is just to go on our website. And look and see what interests you. We we've got on the left side of a website you'll see holistic, thanks. You could go on the site. And and if that's free to just join us a state team member, you can write your story can pick numerous things to do if you would rather just make phone calls. There's a list of of the off says you can call from you can write emails, and you can go in there. If you click on that on the selection says writing Email, it will walk you through how to do that. And it's kind of an automated process, and or you can just go directly to your representatives website and go through that direction, and then you can go to our lobby days. We're having inveigh. There are quite a few things you can do you can be as involved as you want to you could sign up for newsletter just receive information without having to do anything. I just hear about it. It's really up to you. It's very easy. You saying all of that reminds me about when I was first certified as a liberty Mathare post. I was just hungry for information. I was just trying to learn more about infighting. I wanted to learn more about how other people were approaching it. What was being done in other places? And I remember stumbling upon the Olympic retreatment act, and I did like you said, I just filled out the very easy forms to contact my representatives to become a Texas team member. And before I knew it, I was signed up for lobby days. And I was like I'm doing this. We're going to get this done. And I think relieving I was like we didn't get it. And I just I think I thought we were going to run in there. And like a riot the capital, and they're here you go. You can have compression for everyone. But yeah. To it. Yeah. So I'm really bit. Yes. I opened you are such an inspiration. Because you are the one of the most busiest advocates we've ever had this love it. I mean, your curiosity is awesome. And I mean, just all the patients oughta know out there that that having a therapist like you in in our midst is so wonderful to have someone so willing to just learn and do something different in new, and and just really, you know, be it's a creative. I think area because there's so many ways to approach helping people, and I really appreciate all you do just professionally and then just be putting your extra time in as an advocate. Makes it great. Yeah. And I'm excited to come back for my third year. I saw the Email that the dates are going to be announced for may. What would you say to someone listening today that might be interested in attending lobbies? This may. Okay. We'll yes, it would be I would really recommend doing it. If you're able to do it. It's I would go in line at look at our website. I don't think the current where we are now at you can kinda read about right now on the website talks about people's experiences kinda gives their little quotes of they're good experiences. They have but they also we also have training that as we announce the dates more and start opening registration. They'll be training seminars ahead of time. There will be you know, just more information. So you might feel comfortable there's we have a hotel real estate together out by the airport in DC. It's easy to kind of get. We have a meal how it works is we fly unusually on a Sunday. And if you wanna find earlier make a little tour out of DC. Can do that and Sunday evening. We usually have a welcome kind of kick off dinner. There might be some just give a little history about what we're doing and our plan for the next day, and we get to meet each other. And I think that's one of the best things about lobbies just on a personal level is just the opportunity to meet other people that have your condition. I know I'm felt really isolated a lot in my life. Didn't really share so much of the time. What I had because you know, it's like not many people have it. And it's just it's kind of a Downer. Sometimes it really wanna keep bringing that up. And this is a way that really all you can just meet people. It's very, you know, good personally, just to connect with other people have your condition meet people from different states. And and then learn about how government works. It's very interesting. And yeah, I was like you to I thought it was they're not this out. And here I am fibers later. But. It's it's it's makes your eight the good side of our government. You can't just go in there. And do something nutty. I mean, they're really you have to have your act together. You have to make a case for what you're doing. And I respect that. It's also frustrating because it's such a common sense thing. It's like why this already done, and he learned that there's so many other things out there that are people are trying to do just like our thing. And then he realized how much how what a good case we've made in makes you appreciate all of the work this gone before us, and it's just it's very eye opening. So I recommended I think you could always reach out to any of us for questions about how it works. I really I enjoyed my time. And I think like I had already mentioned before I had this false idea of other than just going in and writing the capital in getting everyone to sign the petition or whatever I thought in my mind, we were going to be doing I thought it'd be like oh to go to the Smithsonian, and then I'll go see Lincoln Memorial. And then I may have a meeting, and then I may go back visit another museum or something. But it is one hundred percent not like that. If you're going to do any sightseeing. Yet coming early or you're staying late because once you've walked forty thousand steps all over that capital. You are wiped out at the end of the night. Yeah. But in a good way, you've you feel -ccomplish and you feel just excited for the cause. Right. And it's great. It's a great way to just have your voice in how have your said. Because a lot of what you do at the meetings. But we try to do their short that you can't take up a lot of time for these offices. But we try to give time said that up. So you have fifteen minutes if you're in the room with these staffers, usually don't meet the congress person directly. But sometimes we do and you share with them. They really are great listeners, and for the most part, I mean, it's just very helpful to be able to share your story, you're here other people's story and just to be able to say that to your Representative and have that on record. It's. You know, there's there's no downside of getting an opportunity to speak up for yourself. And you know, it just it sounds corny. But there's not many countries in the world, you can do this. And it's it's just kind of makes you feel like, wow, it's not such a bad thing. So I I think it's a great process. Just experience just to go through. Mark six is world for demon day. I'm because lymphoma is affecting people all over the world. They're advocates and organizations working hard to bring public awareness to this disease. How can the listeners of limiting podcast advocate for the TA this world limiting midday. Well, I think that of course, going to our website is great you can pick and choose what you wanna do there. And I think look at other groups because there are some groups that are focusing on research and some might have a local event that they're doing in your town. You can pass out information for our Bill to one of other things you can do is we if you if there's a place you can look they have forms like just. Some printed for its information forms, you can put them in your most doctors offices don't mind if you give them to them and they'll set them out. Lots of people do that. And you can just mention your condition. People just get a little bit more open that what you have. You'd never know someone else might have this condition, and and because you shared your shared it with them there. They might say my aunt has that I never knew that was called thima. That's a great thing. You can do. And I think. You can also if you know any local media, you could ask if they could do a story or write a letter to the editor. And and also were also doing some fundraising to offset costs if you wanted to just donate if that's what you're able to do you can go to our website. There's a big Donut donate button. And we'll be having a March madness. That coming up in March two will nounce that for Olympic team a month. So they can. So if you would like to donate, you can just help us offset, the costs for lobby days, as are, my main suggestions awesome. Those are great. Thank you, so Judy. Thank you so much for being such a good guest today. I really appreciate all your information and expertise on the liberty Metron act, but mostly your work that you're doing behind the scenes on the hours, you're putting in. So I really appreciate you just want to say thank you for all of us from the community. We'll you're so welcome. And if I didn't say it but dates are set for March are may fifty seven for the lobby days. If your listeners wanted to that. But I am so happy that you've thought of me in. Appreciate you in letting me have my voice today. You are welcome. So for the rest of the listeners. Who are aware of klippel-trenaunay or even judy's personal story? I'm going to put a link up to her story on the website. You'll be able to see that after or before you listen to the podcast, but it's gonna be on there for you guys to read more about her and just see her experience and how she has gotten to where she is today. So Judy Alec forward to seeing you in may fifth through seventh in DC. Yes. Thank you. You're welcome mother. Theresa says loneliness and the feeling of being unwanted as the most terrible, poverty, this podcast is here for you to find friendship in a community for your journey with lymph Dima. I hope you've enjoyed learning. More about the limiting treatment act and ways to advocate for world. Medina day Email me with your story if you'd like to share name podcast at chemo dot com or visit the website limiting podcasts dot com to submit a topic for another episode.
November 30, 2019: Gary Ridgway Apprehended
"Today is Saturday November thirtieth two thousand nineteen on this day in two thousand one one Gary Ridgway also known as the Green River Killer was arrested for nearly twenty years ridgway of aided the police but thanks to developments in DNA testing. He couldn't stay hidden forever. Welcome to today and true crime. Apart cast original. Due to the graphic nature of today's crimes listener discretion is advised extreme stream. Caution is advised for listeners under thirteen. Today we're covering the arrest of Gary Ridgway one of America's most prolific serial. You'll killers let's go back to three. PM On November thirtieth two thousand one just outside Seattle Matt Haines heart thumped in his chest as the police cruiser sped down the Washington to state highway. He'd been waiting for this day for a very long time for over fifteen years. The nearly fifty year old the police lieutenant had been convinced that Gary Ridgway was the so called Green River killer. The King County Sheriff's Department believed he was guilty of murdering seventy one women. Most of the victims were between the ages of fifteen and twenty five many were sex ex-workers or runaways. The cause of death was always the same he would rape them. Kill them via strangulation. Then he would dump dump the bodies near the Green River just outside Seattle. Gary Ridgway had been a person of interest in the case since April. Nineteen eighty-three three. When a victim's boyfriend saw her get into a pickup truck whose description matched a vehicle belonging to ridgeway but ridgway denied nine knowing her and detectives couldn't find anything to prove? He was lying facing immense pressure to catch the killer. The police turned to an unlikely source for help convicted. Serial killer Ted Bundy at the time time. Bundy was awaiting execution in interviews with detectives. He suggested that the Green River killer was probably returning to his dumpsites to sexually assault his victims corpses. The next time investigators found a fresh grave. He advised them to stake out the site and and wait for the killer to come back. The advice proved to be spot on. Although then detective Haynie and his task force were able able to catch the killer red-handed. They were able to collect semen samples from violated corpse. Unfortunately this evidence was all but use Lewis for the time being in the early nineteen eighties. Semen samples could only be used for determining blood type. They could only narrow throw a suspect down to one of several million. It was circumstantial evidence at best hanes key lead remained just that a lead then around nineteen eighty eight. The murders suddenly stopped with no fresh leads to track. Investigators could only hope that someday. DNA testing would be advanced enough to prove Gary Ridgway was the Green River killer breath as the investigation into the Green River. Killer wound down. Detective Haynie moved onto a new phase in his life in nineteen eighteen. Ninety six. He moved to homer Alaska where he was promoted to lieutenant but five years later he received a call he never are expected by two thousand one. The King County Sheriff's Department finally felt that DNA testing was sufficiently advanced chanced to connect ridgway to at least four of the murders. The results were conclusive the DNA found on the Green River killers. Victim belonged to Gary Ridgway and now there was finally a warrant out for his arrest. Lieutenant Tenant Haney clutched his gun as the line of squad cars and SUV's roared into the parking lot of Seattle area. Trucking Company the the police were determined not to let Ridgeway slip through their fingers across the lot. Fifty two year old. Gary Ridgway was just getting off a shift of detailing trucks. Suddenly he was surrounded by a crowd of law enforcement in one fell swoop ridgway way was thrown into the back of a squad car and charged with four counts of murder. The Green River killer was finally off off the streets coming up the full extent of Gary Ridgway's crimes comes to light now back to the story on November thirtieth. Two thousand one fifty two year old Gary Ridgway was finally arrested thanks to DNA testing assting immediately following the arrest King County sheriff. Dave reichert called a press conference to announce that ridgway had been apprehended while he stopped short of proclaiming that Ridgeway was the green river killer. Ryecart did emphasize that all seventy one murders were were linked in some way but at the moment ridgway was only being charged with four of the suspected seventy one murders. The Green River killer had committed. If he was going to face justice for all his crimes prosecutors would have to get creative. Unfortunately there wasn't any. DNA evidence to link Ridgeway with the rest of the murders but if he was found guilty of the four murders she was currently connected to that would be enough to give ridgway. The death sentence. That fact was a bargaining chip. The prosecutors. Could use in their favor along. With the circumstantial evidence. Lieutenant Matt Haney and his Task Force had gathered over the years the DNA evidence made it an open and shut case with this inevitability in mind prosecutors offered ridgway up plea-bargain if he admitted to the rest of the murders orders. They would take the death penalty off the table. He agreed to the deal over the next next two years. Ridgway went into painstaking detail on the crimes he had committed although he did admit to the seventy one murders he could only. We provide clear details on forty eight of them the details he provided however were incredibly disturbing ridgeway. Talked about how he'd pick up his victims at truck stops or dive bars. He would use a picture of his son to gain their trust then he would take them into his house or into the woods where he would strangle them to death and sexually assault the corpse. Sometimes sometimes his son would be waiting in the car while he did it. Ridgway also explained how he'd been able to throw investigators off his trail. Oh for so many years. In order to sow confusion he would drop cigarettes around the crime scene making. It seem like the killer was a smoker on one occasion. He leaped pamphlets for airport. Motels to make it seem like whoever had done it was from out of town. He would also periodically take bodies. Wadis down to Portland to deceive investigators into thinking. The Green River killer had moved to Oregon. Even though he hadn't provided details on all seventy one murders the prosecutors felt like ridgway had held up his end of the bargain after he pleaded guilty not to forty nine counts of aggravated first degree murder on November. Second two thousand three. The judge sentenced ridgway to a life sentence for each one along with an additional four hundred eighty years for good measure. Naturally there was no no possibility of parole with these murders confirmed Gary Ridgway officially became one of the most prolific serial. Oh killers in American history in interviews. He's referred to this horrific murder spree as his career and though he's proud Out His so-called accomplishments he does not rate himself as the worst of the worst in fact when a psychologist asked ridgway to rate himself on a scale of one to five in terms of evilness he only gave himself a three. His reasoning was that he only killed his victims. He didn't torture them. But for the seventy one young women who lost their lives at Ridgway's hands he was a five on a scale of five. Gary Ridgway is a monster of the highest order and while his victims will never get true justice. There's at least some comfort in knowing he will never kill again. Thanks for listening today in true crime. I'm Vanessa Richardson to learn more about Gary Ridgway. Be Sure to check out our serial killers episodes profiling his crimes today in true crime is a podcast original. You can find more episodes of today in true crime and all all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Not only the spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite favorite podcast originals. Like today in true crime for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream today in true crime on spotify just open the YEP and type today in true crime in the search bar at par cast. Were grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach Joe on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll be back with a brand new episode tomorrow in untrue. Crime today and true crime was created by Max Cutler and is a podcast studios original it is executive produced by Max ex- cutler sound designed by Andy Weights with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly Madden Travis Clark and Joel Stein. This episode of today in true crime was written by Alex. Benetton with writing assistance by Maggie. Admire I'm Vanessa Richardson.
Lie Detector | The Heart of a Liar | 1
"Join wondering plus to listen to american innovations one week early and add free and the wonderful app. Download the wondering app in your apple or google. Play mobile app store today. It's may seven nineteen eighty four seattle washington and the king. County sheriff's headquarters. Deputy dave reichert stairs through a one way mirror into an interrogation room. He sips lukewarm coffee from a styrofoam cup watching colleague inside the room. Titans of blood pressure cuff around the right bicep of person of interest named gary ridgway another deputy cycles up next to reichert and nods at ridgeway. I mean he does kind of look like someone who kills prostitutes right reichert takes in ridgeway. He's scrawny with light brown hair. Flopping over his forehead narrow is and a wisp of a mustache lining his upper lip he does have that certain like quality to. I'll give you that. But i'll still think the cab drivers are man not this guy over the past two years. Police have discovered more than two dozen bodies. In the wooded areas outside seattle near the green river girls and young women many of them prostitutes or runaways strangled reich art and his colleagues have a prime suspect a cabdriver who admits knowing five of the victims but a witness says they saw one of the victims. Get into pickup truck similar to the one ridgway drives sort of cross every t and every i. They've brought him in for questioning and give him a lie detector test. The polygraph operator straps accord around ridgway's and places sensors on two of his fingers. He checks the wires running back to a small metal machine resting on the table in front of him then fiddles with a few of the machines dials and switches satisfied. He looks up at the mirror and nods at the deputies behind. It mr ridgway. You have consented to a polygraph examination. Otherwise known as a lie detector test. I'm gonna ask you a series of questions and determine whether or not you have answered them truthfully. Are you ready to begin. Ridgway nods guests the polygraph operator. Hunches over the machine. Studying the graph paper it slowly spits out on the paper undulating lines indicate changes in ridgway's breathing rate blood pressure pulse and sweat rate in a disaffected monotone. The operator asks ridgway. A series of questions is your true last name ridgway. Yes in the observation room. Brian kirk leans forward. It doesn't matter how many polygraph examinations he's watched. It's always a thrill it's so efficient. In nine questions. It can determine if a suspect is lying or telling the truth. Have you ever caused the death of a prostitute. No before you were thirty years. Old did you ever injure anyone without provocation. No when the operators finished with his questions he unhooked ridgway from the machine tears. The paper from the polygraph and heads to the door sit tight. Detective will be with you shortly. Graduate nods his hand over his mustache in the observation room. The polygraph operator spreads out the paper with ridgway's results on the table in front of rajkot and the other deputy. In my opinion he passed with flying. Colors ray kurtz colleague. Shot his head and points to a spike in the readings. What about this doesn't indicate he was lying. Yes but that was in response to a control question where we expect suspects to lie. We know he assaulted. Another kid is a juvenile. So we asked before you were thirty. Did you ever injure anyone sure enough. His blood pressure and pulse. Jump now if you compare that to his results here That's a much smaller reaction. Exactly that's the question where i asked if you'd ever murdered prostitute change impulsive blood pressure at all. Reichert gives the other. Deputy a smug look. I told you this was a wild goose chase. Let's cut him loose right. Strides into the interrogation room. Where ridgway sits slakes crossed. All right. mr ridgway you passed the test and you're free to go. Thanks for coming in ridgeway smiles. No trouble at all. He puts on his coat and heads to the door. Detective record watches them. Go with a sense of relief with ridgway crossed off their list. He can turn his attention back to more. Credible suspects like that cabdriver. Outside in the parking lot gary ridgway one of the most prolific serial killers in us history climbs into the cab of his black ford pickup. And lets out a heavy sigh. He didn't he fooled the lie detector. And that means he's now free to kill again Ad is the payments platform built to help your business grow without. You can accept payments in app online. In-store touch free and beyond at yan technology adapts to any business store industry or shopper journey from retail marketplace's to subscriptions and mobile payments. You can do any of it or all of it. You'll get flexible features. It fit your business with a single integration. you'll even get revenue optimization customer insights in an all in one solution so keep your customers happy and your business growing with adia business not boundaries visit com to learn more. That's a d. y. e. n. dot com. This episode is brought to you by our friends at carmax who've just launched their new love. Your car guarantee the love. Your car guarantee offers carmax customers. The option of twenty four hour test drive and thirty day. Money back guarantee of up to fifteen hundred miles having a full day to experience your new ride and buying with confidence. It doesn't get simpler and more stress free than that. I mean this offer is truly unrivaled in the auto retailing industry. Learn more about the new love your car guarantee from carmax at carfax dot com carfax. The way it should be from wondering. I'm steven johnson. And this is american innovations. Humans are shockingly bad at deducing whether or not someone is telling the truth. According to some studies most people can only identify ally fifty four percent of the time about the same as if they flipped a coin. Even supposed experts like police and intelligence officers for trained in spotting deception. Generally aren't much better. Still people have long suspected that the human body reacts physically when we tell lives invade us the most ancient scriptures in hinduism there are directions for identifying a poisoner concluding watching to see if the suspect rubs his toe on and shivers hank marr of rams a theologian in the ninth century recommended. That alleged liars have their arms thrust into boiling water. Only liars claimed would suffer burns in the early twentieth century. Scientists came up with their own physical tests to identify liars. Those early lie detectors became fixtures in police stations government offices and loss prevention departments and while the new tests were less onerous than previous methods. There have long been doubts about their accuracy. But despite does reservations the lie detectors promise to reveal. People's inner minds has proved impossible to resist by two thousand eighteen. An estimated two point five million lie detector tests conducted per year making it a two billion dollar industry. This is the story of the origins of the lie detector. Was the brain child of three men who were by turns colleagues and fierce rivals. Invention took them from the labs of harvard to the police interrogation rooms of berkeley california and eventually to courtrooms around the country to hollywood. This is episode one of our two part series on the lie detector. The heart of aligarh. It's nineteen fourteen. Cambridge massachusetts william marston. A junior at harvard university is in the psych lab marston barrel chested thick wavy hair and around face intends to practice law but he believes that studying psychology will set them apart from other lawyers. He's running a word association test. His professors developed which can supposedly determine whether or not a person is lying marston gazes intently. At a fellow student he finishes up to test river water. Marston checks his pocket. Watch and record the response time one second statue pedestal marston. Again consults his watch just over one second. He raises his eyebrows. The student looks at him. Confused but marston continues on setting his face back to neutral money dollars. Marston records the time again still less than two seconds. All right that's That's all the questions. Marston returns his watch to his pocket and nods to the door. Have you seen the hall. I'll i'll be out in second. As the student puts on his coat marston stares at the results his brow furrowed he squint at the reaction time so his two most recent students shaking his head then. He gathers the papers and heads to his professor's office command. Sorry to bother you professor. Do you have a minute to go over. Some unusual results on that word association test chirp all right so your research shows that on average people take one point five seconds to come up with a corresponding word when they have nothing to hide and if a person takes two point five seconds or more that indicates they're lying about something related to the word they were given his professor lights a pipe and nods right because for a liar. The word that first comes to mind would incriminate them so he needs to spend the extra time to find a word that is neutral and that makes perfect sense. But i gave the test we discussed and half. The students were given directions to sit by a statute near the library. The other half for told to take the money was hidden by another statue. And not tell us so. Theoretically when i gave the liars the words statue or money they should have taken longer to come up with a corresponding word. Yes precisely but that's not what happened. Look he pushes. The papers towards the professor lowers lower glasses and examines the results after a few seconds he shoves the papers back across dusk. Yes yes. I i see. Both students have very fast reaction times to the incriminating words. You you can't tell who the liar is from these results. That's true but one exception doesn't mean anything but it's not an exception. I've been noticing this trend all semester. His professor studies for a minute. Well get out there and talk to the students find out who the liar was. Maybe he can tell you why he was able to come up with a neutral word so quickly. A few weeks later marston. Is eating dinner at a small restaurant near the harvard campus with his girlfriend. Elizabeth holloway the junior at mount. Holyoke college like marston. She's also studying psychology. They both have their sights set on law. School after college. Marston fills in on what happened in the lab. It turned out that the liar just thought it was really fun to lie so he didn't have any trouble coming up. With alternative words the word association test can't reliably distinguish between a truth. Teller an enthusiastic liar. It's a real problem with the test. Holloway brushes are curly hair away from her forehead and looks at marston with their deep center is pondering his dilemma. You know when. I tell a lie i feel it in my body. My pulse begins to raise my cheeks. Flush and i'm sure my blood pressure rises what you need to figure out how to measure a liars heart marston drops his fork. A huge smile spreads across his face. Honey you genius. We need to get started researching this right away over the next year. Marston and holloway develop a system that periodically takes the blood pressure of person telling the story. The results are astonishing. They're able to detect one. A storyteller is lying ninety six percent of the time other students working without tracking blood pressure can only detect the lies. Half the time marston turns their research into his senior thesis after they graduate. Marston and holloway. Get married both. Get their law. Degrees that enroll in graduate psychology programs when the united states entered world war one. The army agrees to sponsor marston ongoing. Study of lie detection. They hope to use marston methods to identify liars among german prisoners of war as part of his research. Marston interviews twenty detainees in a boston jail and claims a hundred percent success rate. Marston is riding high. Maybe a little too high. It's nineteen eighteen. Boston massachusetts marston. Meeting with his boss at the national research council which is coordinating his work on lie detection for the. Us army the older man runs his hand through his receiving white hair in frustration. He glares marced. Look you're very ambitious young man but sometimes you take the coroner's little fast and that's what's happening here. The science is sloppy marston. shakes his head vigorously. I'm not being sloppy. It's a well established fact that the body changes would mental activity. All i'm doing is measuring. How the body changes yes. Yes but you're inferring. That caused from the consequence. We know dogs salivate for multiple reasons and that humans cry both when they're happy and when they're sad when you link blood pressure to lying your reasoning backwards. You don't actually know why their blood pressure is changing. Your guests. marston crosses his arms. Well then how do you explain my results on consistently identifying liars with better than ninety percent. Accuracy that can't be just a coincidence. His boss shrugs. Maybe it's not your blood pressure tests. That's good at identifying liars. Maybe it's you know that can't be proved that this method is scientifically sound. marston nods. the results have to be replicated by interrogators. Other than you if you can train other people to use this technique and they have the same success rate is you that will be a big step towards proving the validity of your method. All right. let me train people. I have complete confidence. I can replicate the results in no time. Marston holloway move to camp greenleaf georgia. Where the army is training. Medical officers. marston. Develops a new set of deception games and works with officers there training them and how frequently to measure a subject's blood pressure and how to interpret the results he teaches them to look for nuance. The way he does when he runs interogations just like some people are quicker to laugh or cry than others. Some people's blood pressure changes more sharply than others when they lie understanding the range of blood pressure. Responses is a key part of marsden's extraordinarily high success rate in a begrudging nod to his boss at the national research council. Marston also warns them as subjects. Blood pressure maybe rising for reasons other than lying. The officers marston. Trains do get better at identifying liars. But none of them approach his level of accuracy by nineteen twenty. The war's over and marston has failed to convince other psychologists that his methods are sound. He does however publish a number of papers on his research. One of those papers catches the attention of a reform minded police chief in berkeley california his adoption of marston methods will trigger the next phase in the evolution. The lie detector and transformed the future of american policing we get support from peleton. I don't know if you're like me. But i really need to have some external force motivating me when i'm trying to do a workout. Just can't do it on my own. A great inspiring instructor can make all the difference so with world. Class instructors curated music and endless. Fitness variety peleton has created an unmatched fitness experience to keep you motivated workout after workout whether you're looking for some extra encouragement structured workouts or just in the mood to laugh. Their instructors are there to bring out during each class. that's been my experience. The instructors are always motivating really inspiring and kit. You to more than you would just on your own. Peleton isn't just game. Changing cardio you can add its strength class to your rider combined cardio and strength and one workout with bike boot camp to get a total body fitness experience get started on your peleton journey. Go to one. Peleton dot com to learn more that's o. N. e. p. l. o. t. o. n. Dot com nineteen twenty one berkeley california inside a police interrogation room to officers. Beat a suspect lies in the fetal position under a gray metal table sweat trips down the officers faces as they drive their billy clubs into the man's kidneys. You snuck up from behind him and stabbed him. Isn't that how it went. No i wasn't even there. Don't line me. you're only making it harder on yourself. Suddenly the door swings open and chief of police august boomer strides in broad-shouldered with a long face. He glares at the officers. That's enough the officers freeze and with her. Under vollmer's piercing grey eyes officers and need to speak to you outside the officers step over the suspect lies grimacing on the floor and follow volmer out into the hall. How often have i told you to knock off the beatings. If you want the public to respect you you have to respect. The public. walmart considers himself a forward thinking police. Chief he's rooted out corruption in its force recruited more officers with college degrees and even hired the city's first female cop now. He's determined to get his officers to stop beating suspects and they're not happy about it but he is obviously lying sir. How how else are we supposed to get them to tell the truth. We're building a machine. The two officers exchanged confused. Looks fomer pats one of them on the shoulder. Just sit tight. I've got one of my best guys working on it a few days later john larson one of berkeley. Pd's finest sits across from a pretty young woman in a diner sporting and neatly ironed uniform. His light brown hair slicked back. Then i wrote my master's thesis on fingerprint analysis at boston university. Did you know that everyone has their own. Unique set of fingerprints. I made up my own classification system. His date nods. It's unclear how interesting she finds this recitation of his life story and then i came to berkeley to get my phd in physiology. Most people who get. Ht's don't become police officers but for me. The decision was quite logical. He leans back beaming. his date. Gives him a worried look. Are you sure it's okay that you're off your beat. Larsen waves his hand dismissively. It's fine street policing isn't what they hired me to do anyway. The chief calls me his science cop. His date wrinkles her brow. They still give you a gun though. Right larson brushes. He's blind in one eye. The worst shot in the department. Yes but you know. Guns aren't really the most important part of fighting crime in the future. We'll be using science more and more. In fact i'm working on very exciting machine right now. It's based on the research of this guy named marston. The woman nods staring off into space as larson continues his monologue later back at the station larson's in the locker room changing out of his uniform at the end of the shift. He's in the middle of tying his shoes when he looks up to find another officer looming over him. What happened to you today. Larson you crash. Another car larson roles is at the job. He only learned to drive after joining the force and his infamous within the department for crashing to cars in one day. Nope nope cars all in one piece. Then where the hell were you. What do you mean. There was a robbery on your feet at sunset hardware store. You were nowhere to be found some fields. His stomach sink his face grows pale. Okay okay okay. You got me. I was on a date. You should've seen this girl. A total knockout was the middle of the day. I was only off my beat for an hour. I didn't think anything would happen. Please don't tell volmer. He pauses looking into the other. Cops is but demands face is impenetrable. Marcin feels himself. Start to panic. His parents separated when he was young and he barely knew his dad. Volmer is the father figure. He's always longed for imagines volmer firing him and his stomach drops even further. After a moment his colleague takes pity on him and burst out laughing. You should see your face larson. Don't worry we all leave our beets every once in while i'm not gonna rat you out larson. Lets out the breath. He didn't even know he was holding as the other officer walks away still laughing. He's flooded with guilt. Even if volmer never finds out about the date larson still feels like he betrayed chiefs trust. He wants to make volmer proud and with his deception spotting machine. He knows he can. He gets to his feet straightens his tie and heads back to the lab a few weeks. Later larson leads volmer into his lab to show him what he's come up with. He's excited about the progress he's made. So i made a number of improvements over dr marston techniques duct marston only recorded blood pressure but mine records breathing and pulse as well. My physiology degree came in handy. Of course volmer nods. He's not terribly concerned with how the sheen works as long as it works. Larson throws open the lab door and switches on the lights. May i present to you. My cardio new maseko graph volmer nearly gasps when he steps into the lab. The sprawling machine covers an entire table. Tom thick rubber tube play out from the device and a large scroll of black in the paper sits on a wooden rack. Nearly eighteen inches high with four needles perched on top of it so impressive. Thanks the biggest improvement. I made isn't even in the hardware. It's the process. dr marston. Just had a subjects tell stories would check their blood pressure periodically to see if it rose but my apparatus takes continuous readings of the blood pressure and other vital signs and instead of letting the subject. Just talk and talk. I ask a series of specific questions so we can see exactly what his body is responding to arson pulls out a chair for gomer. If you take a seat. I can hook you up and show you how it works. You know. larsen looks at him. Confused i'm sorry sir. I thought you wanted to test it out before we started using it on the general public. I do but i want you in the hotseat. I'm gonna ask you the questions. Larson's breath skips. He hadn't expected this but he can't say no to volmer. He plans to thin smile on his face. Absolutely he takes off his jacket rolls up. His sleeve plops himself in the chair. Indicates the thickest to on the table all right so should go around my chest and make sure it's on snuck warmer slides tube around larson's torso like that yes sir the That's good now. See cuff he points to a leather cough. Three buckles picks it up. I put this on your bicep. That's right sir wants. The cuff is secure larson. Nods to the chair across from all right. I'm strapped in so to speak. You can turn on the machine as volmer turns on the machine. The needle start to jump marking the black paper with a series of white squeals. Some are smooth like sine waves other sharp jagged larson's smiles in spite of his nervousness about being grilled. He's excited to show off his invention. You can start asking questions. You're looking for questions that can make those patterns change especially if there's a sudden spike should i ask you some straightforward questions first to see what your normal level is thus correct and when we questioned subjects for real we wanna ask all the suspects in a particular case the same set of questions in as much of a monotone as possible. The goal is to make sure we don't give them anything else to react to accept the fact that they're lying fulmer nods. Okay let's begin. All four squiggle on the paper gets slightly bigger larson's a little anxious. Did you attend boston. University yes both volmer larson look at the readouts noticeable change. Are you twenty nine years old. Yes still no change. Do you like being a police officer. Yes the readouts. Hold steady volmer pauses. Then his cold grey stare. Where you off your beat. The day of the sunset hardware robbery. Larsen doesn't even have a chance to answer the needles jump off the page creating sharp incriminating jags on the paper. Well i'm convinced this contraption works volmer helps larsen out of the cuff and the tubing larson is so mortified. He barely feels proud. That is invention passed the test. How did you know sir son. I know everything that happens in my department. In any case you're not going to be working foot patrol anymore larson's eyes widen. Is he getting fired. But volmer grins patting arson in the they're going to be busy operating this machine. Marcin laughs relieved. We just need to prove that it works on criminals. They'll get their chance soon enough. And when they do john larson will begin to realize. Just what a powerful machine he's built we get support from monday. Dot com work. Os an innovative customizable platform that gives teams the ability to easily. Create the tools. They need and want for their work. Why is that so important when you study stories of innovation as much as i. Have you realize that greet teams and organizations really can make the impossible come true but now without working really well together teams that use money dot com or co s are much more productive can automate tedious work in seconds saving emails meetings and the dreaded meetings about emails. It's easy to plan. Projects update status is give and side next steps all in one place. It's such a challenge to get a team working together in a fluid way particularly when we're all working remotely these days and in my experience monday dot com does an amazing job of your organization stay in sync. You can share ideas and set goals and see how well you're meeting them with so much less friction teams of any size and any industry can rely on monday. Dot com to plan track and manage their work. Create the perfect workflow for your team with monday. Dot com work. Os to start your free fourteen day. Trial go monday. Dot com one. More time that's monday dot com we get support from sen pro online from pitney bowes working remotely with sent pro online from pitney bowes you can simply and easily print postage stamps and shipping labels right from the comfort of home for as low as four dollars ninety nine cents a month. You'll have access to all kinds of benefits like discounts of up to forty percents off usps priority mail and now up to sixty two percent off ups daily rates. You'll also be able to calculate exact postage online. Use the mobile app to ship and track packages on the go. You'll save five cents on every first class letter and let's not forget all those trips to the post office. You're going to save all right now. Listen up just for being a listener of american innovations. You'll receive a free thirty day trial to get started and a free ten pounds scale to ensure that you never overpay go to pb dot com slash ai to access the special offer for a free thirty day. Trial plus a free ten pounds scale to get started. That's pb dot com slash ai. Experience a savings in your shipping costs with a free trial of send pro online from pitney. Bowes it's march nineteen twenty one berkeley california veteran police officer jack fischer is just arrived at the door of one of the university's sorority houses a frazzled. Looking house mother opens the door and hustles inside. Come in come in. She scans the street to see if anyone noticed the police officer at the house. Door as the sororities adult chaperon. She's worried what a police visit will do to our houses reputation fisher grunts. He enters the house. He hates these sorority theft cases. Usually it just turns out that the alleged victim simply misplaced her missing money or jewellery waste of valuable police time he steps into the living room and sees four young women on the floral print. Couch hair neatly parted skirts ironed. What seems to be the problem. The house mother puts her hands on her hips. Seems we've had a theft. She gestures to one of the women on the couch. Ruth tell the officer what happened. One of the women stands up smoothing down her skirt the other night at around six o'clock i put sixty five dollars in my purse before heading downstairs for dinner. When i came back up stairs about half an hour later it was gone. Roof sits down the house. Mother turns back to officer fisher. The other three girls were the only ones who are upstairs during that time period. I've talked to all of them but no one has confessed. She glares pointedly at her charges. Obviously we cannot tolerate theft in this house. So i'm hoping you can find the culprit fisher. Is the young women wehrley. He doesn't like interrogating college girls. They're hard to read. He thinks with all their feminine wiles but then he remembers a recent memo from chief. Volmer asking to be on the lookout. For good test cases for john larson's machine fisher can never quite remember the name of the thing cardio something something but whatever it's called fisher realizes that this is the perfect case for it and it will get the investigation off his plate a few weeks later. John larson has margaret taylor hooked up. To his cardio new cycle graph. She's one of nine. Sorority sisters. he's interrogating about the missing. Sixty five dollars. Will you graduate this year. No larson watches the needles jump. He surprised by the strength of taylor's reaction. She's not suspected of the crime. And this is a control question meant to elicit a truthful response. Are you interested in this test. Yes person furrows his brow. This is another reaction. He wasn't expected according to the patterns. On the scroll her blood pressure pulse and breathing rate just skyrocketed. Did you steal the money. Nope the reaction is strong but no stronger than when she answered the control questions larson. She's lying it can't figure out what's going on with his readings. Okay you're free to go taylor puts on. Her coat gathers a purse and heads to the door. But just as she's about to leave she stops and looks back at larson's you know if you ever need someone to practice giving these exams on. I'm happy to help. She gives him a coy. Smile and leaves now larson's own blood pressure picks up he looks at the readouts at the sharp jagged lines so striking against the black paper and realizes his machine can detect more than just lies before he can run out. The door and pursuit of margaret taylor the next sorority sister enters. He remembers how embarrassed he was the last time we got caught chasing women on the job. Better get back to work. What is your name helen graham. Will you graduate this year. Yes are you interested in this test. No did you steal the money. No the needles jump indicating a sharp change in grams. Bloodpressure grams face. Turns red larson decides to force the issue. The test shows you stole it. Did you spend it grandma. Larsen both watch as the needle s- go haywire. The blood pressure needle climbs up the one monitoring your pulse jumps. Suddenly she screams bridge the cuff offer arm and lunges at the paper squirrel. Larson stops her before she can tear it up. She frees herself from his grip and storms for the door. The questions you're asking are absolutely atrocious. And this machine should be illegal. Larson watches her. Go stunned i guess. We found the thief after several more interviews. Helen graham confesses to the crime. She makes arrangements to pay back. The money and drops out of berkeley volmer is thrilled. The results he credits larson's machine with solving the case he even writes up an exaggerated version of the events for a major newspaper describing larsen as a hardboiled sam spade type and the sorority house. As dan of fem vitol's only the machine can cut through their deceitfulness and find the truth. Larson is ecstatic but privately. He's beginning to have doubts. The thefts at the sorority house continued. Even after graham leaves as he tests more and more subjects he begins to realize that his machine can make innocent. People seem like liars in the context of a police interrogation being asked. Did you commit this. Crime is inherently more stressful than being asked your name. How can the examiner. No when a person is lying when they're just feeling natural anxiety about being accused of a crime at least one of our tests is an unqualified success. Invites margaret taylor. Back to the lab hooks up to the machine and asks if she's in love with him she says she is and much to his relief. The machine shows she's telling the truth they get married shortly thereafter. Meanwhile volmer is determined to burnish his credentials as a reformer he takes to the press wants more and declares larson's machine to be one hundred percent. Accurate volmer begins using it in higher profile cases but the name cardio numa psychographic never catches on with the press instead they dub larson's creation the lie detector outside california most americans haven't yet heard of the lie detector but thanks to a case in washington. Dc that's about to change. It's eight forty five pm. November twenty seven nineteen twenty washington d. c. a cocktail party at the stately. Home of dr robert wade brow a physician president the national life insurance company and one of the richest black men in america. Dr brown's friend. Dr julian jackson approaches him swirling cocktail glass. Our you robert barely had a chance to catch up fine jewelry. Fine thank you for coming. Round sets his glass down and starts to head to the door. Choose me excuse me before he can take a step. A friend calls to across the room. Robert come here you. You have to hear this incredible story jackson pants brown on the shoulder. Go here the story. i'll get the door. Jackson goes into the foyer and opens the door. Standing in the doorway is a skinny black man in his mid twenties. Sporting a brown suit jackson looks him up and down. Can i help you. I need to see dr brown. I called on him earlier. He was supposed to give medication. I didn't have the money then. But i i haven't now. Jackson nods leads into the front room. I've a seat. I'll get dr brown jackson. Browne chatting with friends and taps him on the shoulder is a young man here to see you. He says he's picking education brown nods. Thanks excuse me gentlemen. I'll be back in a moment. He exits room. Jackson retrieves his glass and returns party sudden four gunshots ring out from the front of the party. Gasped looking at each other in shock. Some crowds to the floor or duck behind furniture. Jackson sprints to the front room several men behind him flings open the door and finds brown lying on the floor bleeding from the side of his head. A forty five caliber handgun leased by his side jackson rushes to brown and tries. Stop the bleeding. While other guests run to the open door and down the street looking for the salem jackson shows his friend robert robert. But it's too late. brown is dead. The guests return out of breath. There's there's no sign of him one looks jackson. Didn't you answer the door. Was that man's name. Jackson can only stammer helplessly i. I didn't ask the attempt to identify. And prosecute brown's murderer will become the lie detectors biggest test yet by the time. The case is closed. The legal landscape of the united states will never be the same again from wondering this american innovations like our series. Please give us a five star review and tell your friends to subscribe. Were available on apple podcasts spotify. Npr one in every major listening. It's well as wondering dot com and to listen to episodes one week early. Join wonder plus in the episode notes. You'll find some winks. Offers from our sponsors. Please support another way you can support. The show is by filling out. A small survey wonder dot com slash survey. Tell us which stories like to hear a quick note about the re-creations you've been hearing in most cases we can't know exactly what those scenes dramatization but they're based on historical research. Do you wanna learn more about the history of the uae detector. We recommend the lie detectors by ken. American innovations has hosted by me steven johnson the more information on my books about science and innovation putting my upcoming book extra life a short history of living longer. You can visit my website. Steven berlin johnson dot com. Follow me at twitter at stephen beaches. Sound design on. This episode is by jason freeman. The episode was written by austin rackets. Editing by sam digman produced by natalie shisha and andy harmon executive produced by jenny lower beckmann marshal louis and her non lopez for wonder in july twenty. Eighteen twelve use soccer players and their coach found themselves trapped six miles deep in a cave with no food or water and depleting oxygen. The rock for maize became almost completely submerged as the water rose to levels nearly impossible for survival. There was no light and no way to communicate with the outside world. Their only chance of making out alive was in the hands of world-class cave. Diver rick stanton with the whole world watching rick and his dive partner. John were immediately faced with the challenge of their lifetime. Find the boys and get them out safely. The first season of is new original series against the odds takes you into the incredible events of one in adventurous group of teens found themselves fighting to save their lives and the brave heroes that gave them their only chance at survival against the odds is available. Now on apple podcasts amazon music. Or wherever you get your podcast with against the odds feel the adrenaline. Wandry feel the story.
Friday Politics: Election Day is almost here. What should we expect?
"Well Election Day it's almost hear voters in Washington are going to decide a number of contests including some really important statewide races. Are some key local battles that will affect our future and here to give us their closing thoughts and best guess predictions about what we're likely to see what all the votes are counted are regular Friday politics, duo Joni Baltar, host of civic cocktail on the Seattle Channel and CR Douglas political analyst with q thirteen news. Thank you both. Good Morning Low all right times almost here. So let's start with the five highest profile statewide campaigns I up the governor's race Johnny. What's your quick prediction about what we're likely to see Tuesday night. So voters aren't usually thrilled about third terms for governors or mayors that sort of position but in all fairness here, democratic incumbent Jay Inslee gets big plaudits for his science-based handling of corona virus and then Republican Laurence Kulp. He is just not a mainstream candidates no contest inslee. Alright. Pretty definitive their CR. What about you? Listen top. Tier. Republicans chose to sit this one out and it shows it would have been closer more interesting if a figure like rob McKenna or Dave. Reichert or even Pierce County Executive Bruce Dan Meyer had had jumped in but with trump on the ballot among other reasons, those top-shelf Republicans took a pass. How about the lieutenant governor's race between the two Democrats Markle Leeeson Denny Heck CR. I predict, heck will prevail. He's better known better funded and without a Republican in the race, the more moderate candidate in this case, hack has a better chance of attracting gop crossover votes are Johnny Agree I do I do the polling shows if voters were late deciding on this? The heck has the best experience has more ads. You just going to meet him more frequently and he is genuinely. More. Qualified to become governor if that scenario that we've talked about a couple of times of inslee joining Biden Administration plays out. Okay. Let's move onto another heated battle. This one for Secretary of state, which oversees our elections GOP incumbent Kim Wyman is facing a strong challenge from democratic state legislator Gael Tarleton Joni weigh in on this one. Wyman is ahead in the polls not by a lot but. She's ahead and she has far more experience managing elections than Tarleton does Charleston seems to be running against Donald, trump, which is cheesy. But in a blue wave also may work I doubt it will work. Tarleton is trying hard but Wyman has been this office twice she's well liked and she oversees a very popular vote by mail system that especially this year's a model for states across the country. Is In a good place. All right. How about the statewide candidate race for Attorney General CR? Well, Democrat and come at Bob Ferguson is being challenged by Republican Matt. Larkin it's definitely an uphill battle for Larkin first time candidate way behind Ferguson of the primary way less money. Is trying to make this about law and order including protests crime homelessness but that message just hasn't gotten traction for him. Slam Dunk Ferguson wins. He has one this twice before he is a Pez dispenser of very popular lawsuits against the trump administration he's governor in waiting Boom Done Ferguson Outright Pez dispenser never heard that analogy before but that's GonNa stick with me. All right voters are going to see one statewide referendum number ninety. It seeks to overturn Washington's new sex education curriculum which was approved earlier. This year by legislators Johnny go right ahead. Polls and my gut show voters are ready for sensible sex education in public schools. I bet people want this law to stand CR. Opponents have made much of the fact that this new curriculum begins as early as kindergarten I. It's really that elementary piece that's getting the most pushback, but I don't think that's enough to take down I to see it winning. Okay. Let's give it to the three most competitive congressional races here in the region Johnny the third district down in southwest Washington features longtime gop, incumbent Jaime, Herrera Butler. How do you see that one playing out? So this is the second time Democrat. Carolyn long has challenged Herrera Butler. Long fared better this time in the twenty twenty primary than she did back in two, thousand, eighteen but Herrera. Butler also had very strong primary big money is pouring in on both sides. The Cook Political Report are kind of Bible on this stuff has this race as Leans Republican? I. Think Rare Butler's going to win. All right. So let's move on to the north to the tenth district in and around Olympia. A bitter fight between the two Democrats former Tacoma Mayor Marilyn Strickland and state legislator Beth dolio. This. Is for sure a Democratic Party civil war I bet strickland. The moderate will win like with Lieutenant. Governor's race. When you had to Democrats, it really comes down to who can attract the most gop votes for are grads and Strickland is better position for that. Then Strickland Wind, she'll be the first African American we send to Congress here from Washington State. So definitely keep an eye on that one. Finally the always watched eighth district including the east side suburbs all the way over to Wenatchee. We've got first term Democratic incumbent Kim Schreier looking to keep the seat. She flipped two years ago. Can she hold onto a Joni? Yeah I. Think she can't this eighth district that everybody loves to talk about was drawn as a legitimate swing district with an advantage for the Republicans at the time the incumbent was Dave Reichert. It has become more blue shriners expected to win and I to thank. Schreier will. Prevail she was pretty much the poster child of the midterms two years ago you know a moderate woman winning the suburbs for Democrats that recipe works then and it'll probably work even better this year since it'll be a higher turnout and bluer electorate than the midterms. All right and it's all coming down to the wire. Thanks so much to our Friday Politics Team Jani Baltimore host of civic cocktail, the Seattle Seattle and cer Douglas political analyst with q thirteen news. Thank you and thank you you bet.
BONUS EPISODE: Murder Made Me Famous
"Hi twenty two hours fans. Thanks for being loyal listeners to our podcast throughout this entire season. We'll be back next week with a new twenty two hour show but in the meantime. We thought you might wanna check. The new season of murder made me famous. The first episode dropped this week and we're bringing it to you right here right now. If you like what you hear subscribe to the new season and been season season one and we'll see you next week for our latest twenty two hours episode. I'm steve helling senior reporter for murder made me famous reels channels true crime program on unclog cast one and apple podcast he sure to download the podcast one app and subscribe to our series then go to real dot com that's art. He the l._v. dot com to find true crime tv series like this one on real to you. This program contains graphic violence and sexual situations situations viewer discretion is advised for almost two decades a madman assaults kills and then dumps the bodies of young women around seattle and its majestic green river he targeted prostitutes and runaways and murdered them in the most barbaric glades he would pay them. He would have sex with them and then he would kill them to get his money back. The killer often revisits this is on discovered victims to have sex with their corpses cast a shadow and shadow his last decades. He confesses to seventy kevin d one murders but many believe there are dozens more sex often and he got a lot of gratification from killing him living a demonic double life. This wolf in sheep's clothing is a devoted husband father and church member who easily lures vulnerable girls into his trap. He's he's very very good at disarming women and victims psychologically when d._n._a. Technology finally catches up to him. The world realizes this is the true extent of his horrific crimes. He was your co worker. He was your neighbor and your friend but he was a bogeyman living underneath the radar. So how did he get away with it for so long. That's what no one could understand gary ridgway aka the green river killer a run of the mill l. Nobody until murder made him famous so the savage murders committed by gary ridgway in the eighties and nineties shocked authorities and the public his infamous deeds have been chronicled chronicled in movies books and television shows writer who search for the green river killer to moscow yen and even now a lot of people are looking at <hes> television programs grams was a serial killer theme so big appetite and i think he helped feet epitace. Gary ridgway name was even mentioned more than once on the c._b._s. Show criminal minds breath. His legacy continues to terrify through urban legend pop culture references ridgway inspired song lyrics and the seattle based rock band even named themselves after the green river killer gary ridgway case green river case fueled our fascination listen with serial killers but his atrocities traumatized an entire generation of women in the pacific northwest who wondered if they would be his next victim though he's become known as one of the most notorious serial killers in u._s. History gary ridgway's ways early life at least on the surface appears to be normal. He's the middle son of mary. Rita steinman and thomas newton ridgway former former reporter linda byron gary ridgway did not seem to have the kind of family that would produce a man with so much anger and so much hey and a drive to kill. It just didn't seem to fit prosecutor patti eggs. He came from a very middle class family. There was nothing really that remarkable about god from an early age. Gary finds himself sexually attracted to his mother. Ridgway's father was an overworked bus driver and his mother was pretty overbearing so more than once he saw his parents arguing his father would say negative things about prostitutes and sex workers st horse. They always want a free ride. Do you realize the gutters still aren't clean and after i told you to do it last week. I hope you don't expect me to do it. What are you look. Gary's father was a rigid disciplinarian. His mother was a strong woman and and described as being domineering at times one night a young ridgway awakens to find. He has wet himself. Come your gary. Let's get you cleaned up up. Sorry when you going to learn to control yourself we know that he was a bed wetter and that he wet his bed into his early teens and his mother would bathe him even when he was in that puberty age and he became aroused and then she would also become more arouse quinn quin her robe open. He became confused with its mom. I liked her lover. I wanted to certain things so you're not supposed to think that way. When ridgeway is eleven his family moves from utah seattle washington a poor reader and slow learner ridgeway struggles in school he was dyslexic and he had a low. I q and ultimately he was held back in school two times they wanted to put him in special sheila and he was horrified and humiliated by that. He always lived as if he had something to make up for school. Ridgeway allegedly pays a girl to let him look at her genitals tore. You said it eventually ridgway reportedly begins to have violent fantasies about his mother he began getting fantasies of hurting in her slashing her cutting her because she was confused so the bedding washing and then the criticism on the side and then kids making in front of him because he was slow started to create the psychology of inoculating thinking hurting people wanting to hurt people when they did them wrong. His tangere is growing evolving. The dislike for women is starting to take shape at first fantasies team the only way for him to deal with his feelings of of lust and humiliation but then one day he acted on a former detective. Tom jensen jerry had lured this little boy into place to play off into the woods and then attacked him with the knife. I always want to know what felt like to kill somebody. It almost died. He says to see what it felt like so he started getting thoughts of of hurting people in an admitted then with the first woods since the boy doesn't know ridgway. He is unable to identify his assailant. The boy and his family move out of state shortly afterwards gary gary ridgway has successfully avoided police detection for the first of many times in his life in nineteen sixty-nine exte- nine at the age of twenty ridgway graduates high school joins the navy in nineteen seventy. He marries his high school girlfriend but they divorce force after only a year and a half she took up with another man and he was devastated and quite angry and she basically sentiment dear john letter saying it's over while he's in the navy ridgway goes to vietnam where he briefly sees combat and the also starts visiting visiting prostitutes and there was a lot of time that they had where they were on land and didn't really have anything to do and it wasn't uncommon for these. He's sailors to go and find prostitutes. He has an insatiable sex drive and in his acting out he contracts gonorrhea twice weiss in nineteen. Seventy-one ridgway is honorably discharged from the navy he returns to washington state and gets a painting wanting job at the kenilworth motor truck company not long after his divorce ridgway marcia winslow and they got married and he introduced her to his love of the outdoors gary gary mm-hmm gary gary you doing. He had a very insatiable appetite for sex. His wife said that he would sometimes demand sex two and three times a day. That wasn't enough. He had some kinky key ideas about being outside. He likes to have sex outside in one thousand nine. Hundred seventy five ridgway's wife marcia gives birth to a baby. The boy over the next few years the relationship between gary and marsha turns rocky dress yeah you like it do very coming. He was angry at her for betraying him and he talked about feeling that she was one of those women who pushed around and took advantage of him and we were just talking you think he wants to just talk with you. Think again. I can talk to whoever i want. It had self-gratification sexual release. That was the moment that his hate aw became together with violence. Get out marsha leaves ridgway in one thousand nine hundred one and takes custody of their son soon after ridgway moves into to a house near pacific highway south which bisect seattle and begins frequenting prostitutes highway was the primary core door for dr prostitution at that time in the eighties jerry. We're not often. He needed to have sex for five times a week so he was out there all the time and one night in one thousand nine hundred eighty two ridgway spot sixteen year old wendy lee coalfield wendy is reportedly a high school dropout and into presumed run away from pierce county which is over forty miles away he there. Are you looking for a date it. He felt an incredible sense of power and control over these women after he would pick them up trick them into thinking he was safe and he was a good guy. His contempt for women has been growing and and now no longer under the watchful eye of his wife he takes his dark desires to a terrifying level in life he was punishing every woman who do he felt it ever betrayed him or had pushed them around or he had failed to stand up to until i fifteenth nineteen eighty two zero two boys bicycling along the peck bridge noticed something below them in the green river. The boys discovered the body of wendy lee cowfield. She was naked except for her shoes and socks and the rest of her clothes. Were not at around her neck. She was only sixteen years old. Police will soon discover over the statistic. Murder isn't an isolated attack and the body count. We'll soon rise july. Nineteen eighty to a young girl has been brutally raped murdered and discarded like trash on the banks of the the green river in washington state. Gary ridgway had a distorted view of women and even though he had that low i q he became very good at convincing women women to get into his truck so he could kill them. In august nineteen eighteen eighty two marsha fe chapman mother of three crosses paths swift gary ridgway he would park his car. You're at a convenience store in a parking lot and who would prop the hood up as if something was wrong and then he would stand outside the car kind of watching the various women they they were living on the streets they were selling their bodies for sex and gary ridgway knew that they could be taken advantage of one wanna date tonight. Marcia is an alleged prostitute who tells her kids. She's going to the store door. He would show women pictures of his son that he kept in his wallet in order to just show that he was a normal non-threatening guy with a little kid but in reality gary ridgway was far from three more seattle area women fall prey to ridgeway and their disappearances get the attention of homicide detectives dave dave reichert and faye brooks during their investigation. They searched the green river. Yeah i think i see something. Oh my god is that another one hidden in the foliage and anchored under rocks police find the bodies of four ridgway victims debra lynne bonner cynthia jean hinds opal sharman mills and marsha fe chapman. It was shocking from one thousand nine hundred eighty two to nineteen eighty-four gary ridgway. The green river killer continues his manic killing spree he hunt six rapes and strangles his victims and then disposes of their bodies fifteen sixteen years old seventeen eighteen turnabout a lot of teenagers some purity's from hatton and everybody was wondering is my daughter <hes> endanger my wife or whose name you who the victims he he kills these women sometimes in his truck sometimes in his house sometimes in the woods more bodies turn up in remote enforced areas around on seattle. They're usually nude or partially closed and are all killed by strangulation former detective fabrics from then on it was just a matter we're trying to identify. The rest of the victims have been an obvious connection. What was it white black hispanic tall short. The commonality was that they were street eight people street kids by the very nature of their jobs. Prostitutes are easy prey for someone like gary ridgway especially if he's going to pay them money really your investigation running against the clock. It's only a matter of time before another woman has picked up another woman killed. Another woman is found as a result a lot a lot of resources where immediately put into the case that point the sheriff of king county. We've got to do something about this. We got investigate this better her. They formed a taskforce detectives. Dave reichert. Tom jensen are both members of the green river task force. They have one goal in mind to catch the serial murderer dubbed the green river killer. But who are they really looking for at that point. We everything about gary ridgway was unremarkable. The profile that we've all heard of serial killer is he's a loner usually unmarried. He's not so shaw all he comes from a broken home. He was killing animals. He was killing early. That wasn't gary ridgway. He didn't look powerful. He was polite. He had a son dan. He wasn't what we expected. He would be giselle. Vorn is is an alleged prostitute who loves the band the grateful dead she's only seventeen years old when gary ridgway picks her up. He has brought his seven-year-old seven year old son matthew along for the ride eight. Yeah he's fine. He picked her up told his sunday stay in. The car said they were going for a walk. Took her into the woods. Gary ridgway boy was like a serial killer savant. He stumbled onto a method that that worked really well for him. He would often <hes> convinced them that if they did it doggie style he would be faster so <hes> he had them in a very vulnerable position. He told us he did was he would just say what's that and the girl she had her head down. She would be looking up and he would be able to get her his arm around her neck then he would attack the woman typically from behind and he would choke to death. Done didn't know his son was a child oiled. He just waited patiently for his father. Matthew ridgway's father returns to the truck alone the clinton that lady go <hes>. She decided to walk home years later. Matthew ridgeway will tell reporters that he had no idea that his father was anything other than normal dad once details of the green in river site go public. The murderer starts dumping bodies in other places. Making investigators jobs even harder whenever we would find victim. It was on the front page. It was on the news breaking news. He was watching the news so he knew oh. They found that location and he would go somewhere else. Ridgway disposes bose's of his victims in the woods. Sometimes he intentionally spreads debris such a cigarette butts receipts and airport pamphlets around the bodies. He does so in the hopes that the police will think a traveling salesman could be the killer. Ridgway's depraved deeds know no bounds victim. Mary mehan is just nineteen years old and over eight months pregnant. Her remains are discovered approximately a year later. You're not only were they found in more secluded areas but they were even found further away from the seattle area <unk> as the body count climbs to over a dozen. The green river task force received thousands of phone calls from concerned citizens <music>. What's up just got. Another tip on a missing girl from her family attempt temperature useless. They just say the girl away initially without possibly was a pump. We thought maybe it was someone who is pretending to be a cop because it seemed like getting into a car so quickly so easily. Maybe that's what it was promised. This is the only source of we're getting any information from at all what other lead sources who we have we don't we're going to start canvassing again. We gotta find someone who actually saw something. We need to put more guys in on this. If they'll give us the manpower manpower the public was behind us one hundred percent rammed and everybody had a suspect and so we were getting a lot of calls and we could barely keep up with it thing at one point. We had probably forty <hes> investigators including f._b._i. Working on the case because there were so many suspects there were so many missing people we spent so much time recovering remains and trying to identify them that there wasn't really much time to work on the suspects much anymore. We were overwhelmed by by the number recoveries and we're making the problem with this case and gary was at third too many men who want to hurt women. There are too many men who are violent during their investigation into the murders. The green river task force receives an offer of help from the unlikeliest of sources tennyson pictures. You got a call at times now. You're gonna wanna take this. One in this unlikely source is someone who reichert and fellow task force agent robert keppel had previously investigated the infamous murderer tapped bundy. Ted bundy was smart. He was social. Gary ridgway was one hundred eighty degrees the the opposite his i._q. Is low. He wasn't attractive. He wasn't charismatic. It's hard to imagine how he convinced. All of these women get get in the car with him. And in the end i think he was just really good at one thing and that was killing people killing. These women bundy's jests that when police find a fresh grave that they speak it out because of the killer is anything like ted bundy. He'll come back to have sex with the dead bodies. He didn't have money to go pick up another woman and have sex with her gary. Gary ridgway will later reveal. He has sex with corpses of victims because necrophilia is less risky than killing another woman ted bundy's undies gruesome insight could prove to be the crack in the case that cops need to catch the green river killer tae it steve pelling. If you like what you're hearing check out the dark and gritty crime mysteries on your tv unreels channel there are horrifying true stories of murderers like killer clown john wayne j._c. and chris watts the denver dad who killed his pregnant wife and daughters and thought he got away with it then check out the reels medical mysteries series autopsy that reveals what really killed screen and music legends like robin williams lucille ball prince and johnny cash you can find real on your tv at reels dot dot com. That's part e l v dot com then check the top of the screen to find reels in your area. This episode assode is brought to you by progressive saving money on your car. Insurance is easy with progressive is an average savings of six hundred ninety nine dollars a year for customers who switch and save in fact customers can qualify for an average of six discounts on their auto policy when they switched to progressive discounts for just starting quote online or owning multiple vehicles get your here quote online at progressive dot com and see how much you could be saving discounts not available in all states and situations jordan here. I know a lot of you. Create your own podcast. Ask him already. Have one like me. Obviously love what i do. It's taken a lot of hard work to get to this point of success. You shouldn't have to pay fees for platform hosting distribution analytics or fees to create a podcast. You need to be able to focus on producing the best show possible now podcast one. That's a network i'm on. They have a launch pad pat digital media or launch pad d._m. For short so it's free includes unlimited hosting full control of distribution ev- access to a full dashboard with analytics again totally early free you own everything by the way you on your content you on your subscribers know tricky stuff there and get your own show page on launchpad dot com for people to listen to and subscribe your show. It's the only hosting platform brought to you by the leading network podcast one podcast one will promote the site drive people to discover your podcast and if your show grows you could even even be invited to join podcast ones all star roster which includes people like adam corolla kaitlyn bristowe shack lady gang and of course me jordan harbinger on there too you also get access to their production and sales support with all this completely free. Don't use other hosting platform. Why would you need to learn more or sign up now at launchpad d._m. Dot com and don't forget to check out the jordan harbinger shelf. This program contains graphic violence and sexual situations. Viewer discretion is advised in the early eighties the woods surrounding seattle washington have become a dumping ground for corpses. Thanks to the green river killer from death row in florida convicted serial killer ted bundy contacts. The green river task force to offer advice ted bundy offered to help police produce a profile for the green river killer he wanted to lend his expertise bundy had a hunch that the killer would come back to visit the bodies. This was another way for him to control women and to have sex whenever he wanted police police take bundy's advice and stake out a fresh grave in the woods but the killer never shows in november nineteen eighty-two ridgeway solicits twenty year old telemarketer and occasional prostitute rebecca gardai rebecca in ridgeway allegedly agreed to exchange twenty dollars for a sexual act. What's the matter you feel it. Yeah that's right. Gary took her out into a wooded area was in the process of getting oral sex and they tried to strangle luke breath. She managed to get away from him and escape and run to a nearby house called. The police meant that he got away years later. Ridgway admitted it'd choking rebecca but he said it was self defense after she bit him these prostitutes who's gonna believe them. In one thousand nine hundred eighty three ridgway pulls goes over to solicit sex from eighteen year old prostitute. Marie malvar murray's boyfriend who's also her pimp is watching nearby looking for. How do i know you can shoot me. Good it could be the mini. Killing release destroys crawling now killer in the big guys six three because he didn't look like a killer. It was easy for him to get younger. Get in this car to problem was his youngest youngest. Were they thought the streets there were little girls lost some for many had been abused at home and so they were running away from violence and so they ran to the streets what drew him to these women was this desire to feel like he had beautiful women are attractive women and who were sexually attracted to him of course he found the women were easily available and willing to engage in whatever acts he wanted ridgway has just finished having sex with prostitutes marie malvar at his home in seattle and as with all his previous victims he strangles her and during her struggle to break free now var inflicts deep scratches on ridgway's arm. She fought back when he tried to kill her. Although she puts up a fight murray malvar has no chance against ritual action seem ridgway's vehicle and maurice boyfriend was suspicious of this particular guy and followed them to the house and alerted authorities authorities and gary ridgway yeah. It's me your seen this before this year. We reports a man matching your description soliciting prostitutes seatac strip. I've had a few dates now that you mention it for about her seen her before. Maybe she's kind of familiar looks sort of like a guy who bit new ones she issue what was that about. She bit me and then what happened pushed her out of my truck. That's what happened. It was self defense. He talked his way out of it and that's a pivotal moment where many many lives could have been saved. If there had been more more followup it's possible gary ridgway would have been caught when police leave gary ridgway attempts to conceal the scratches inflicted on him by i'm marie malvar aw ridgway covered up the scratches with battery acid. It was one of many close calls that he he had with the cops on edge from his run ins with the police. Ridgway takes his son camping in the neighboring state of oregon dad. I'm going to go fishing creek back. It is there where he deposits. It's the remains of two bodies inside trash bags ridgway left body parts of his victims victims around oregon to throw cops off the scent from seattle and went police discovered the remains. They thought maybe the killer was moving. South breath back in washington state a police officer spots gary ridgway emerging from the woods. He has just finished finished having sex with a cadaver. Excuse me sir. Can you tell me what you're doing. Their woods you copy after murdering countless young women has the green gene river killer finally been caught or will he slipped through law enforcement's fingers again nineteen eighty three washington state serial killer gary ridgway walks out of the woods and right into a police officer. Excuse me sir. Can you tell me what you're doing back there in the woods. <hes> you cop me couldn't hold it any longer size start to take a leak. That's understandable. I had to do that a couple of times myself and then listen carefully missouri okay. We'll do some bad people and thank you. This is just urinated in. I believe he was just feet away from a body where he was having sex. Despite another close call the green river for killer is undeterred in one thousand nine hundred eighty three ridgway murders waitress and young mother carol christensen uh on mother's day her body is discovered propped against a tree he poses her with two trout on her torso a sack on her ahead an empty bottle of wine across her stomach and a pile of sausages under hands some speculate this bizarre scene is an attempt to throw off the task force carol's death was nothing like the killers ammo and made cops wonder was the trying to send a message or was he just taunting them in nineteen eighty four two years after escaping the clutches of gary ridgway rebecca gardai reports are terrifying run into police. There'd been a string of murders by this point and the green river task force was on high alert. Gary ridgway was on their list so they brought him in and for polygraph. Do you have any children yes. Have you ever paid for sexual services. Yes yes. Have you ever assaulted a woman yes. Did you kill when you call them you know. Did you kill marie alvar. No we're done ridgway was reportedly calm and relaxed as he took his polygraph so he passed it with flying colors cops had toys but to let him go again that was a real missed opportunity because when he passed that lie detector tests they moved on they said his name into the side in nineteen eighty five four years after his divorce from his previous wife marcia ridgway starts dating judith mawson they madden parents without partners one of these social clubs for people who have lost spouses or suffered divorce and they connected immediately immediately. I think that the women that he met didn't have great emotional needs. He did like to have sex a lot. I mean judith described their marriages. Every day was a honeymoon ridgway had held the same job for fifteen years and he was closed with his mother so to someone like judith that signified stability and she liked him the two of them together came up with a hobby of salvaging old junk and selling it at garage sales unbeknownst to judith gary secretly skims cash from the garage sale earnings so the money that was coming from the garage sales he was able to use at his discretion without any visibility to judith with few leads leads. The green river task force is still keeping a very close eye. Gary ridgway gary ridgway was on the radar pretty early on he was one of two main suspects. He had a history of arrest for soliciting prostitutes so he was someone they looked at though he's previously sleep passed a polygraph test ridgway remains a prime person of interest the police as a result police. Get a warrant to search gary ridgway joyce home and just cars. They believe they'll find the evidence. They need to finally catch their killer. Just collected a lot of evidence. One of the things that we did get was a swab that was used generally done just r- saliva test understand. What are you looking for. Don't know scott the wrong house in christ but he's very good at what he did and he was able to evade police and they didn't find the evidence that they were expecting cops collected carpet habit fibers ropes and they also collected hair and saliva police also collect paint samples from ridgway's place of work where he is employed as an auto body painter. The problem was that dna technology wasn't fully developed yet so they couldn't really test it so it just sat on a shelf somewhere. Ridgway convinces is judith that the search is a misunderstanding they marry in june of nineteen eighty-eight that just killing spree slows down that media was really focused on the case back in the nineteen eighties when the bodies were being found what seemed like every day every week and then for such a long period of time <hes> nobody was identified in the killings kind of went to the back burner so to speak people had kind of forgotten about the green river killer. It was assumed he's either dead or he's in jail because these murders have stopped people who are in charge of the funds said basically we need to get these people back to the regular job because they're not finding any victims and after a few years without success in catching the green river killer the task force was reduced to one person one detective. Tom jensen and that was is it. Tom was always thinking about the case and it was the only case that he worked on for a very long time and he was dogged about it men while just a few miles away gary ridgway was living his life just like he always had he had a job. He had a son he he had a wife he went to church. He was stable. He was every thing a serial killer isn't during gary ridgway's almost 10-year-marriage 10-year-marriage the rate of his murders slows down considerably but on november sixteenth two thousand one almost twenty years after converter spree began he succumbs to urge and solicit a prostitute. They're looking for a date yeah but this prostitute was different from any of his other victims and she was about to give him the surprise of his life. Gary ridgway has just met his match and this prostitute does something that none of the green river killer victims have dared to do before in november of two thousand one gary ridgway the green river killer once again solicits prostitute thirty thirty good you now have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can the and will be used against you in court of law. This prostitute is an undercover police officer. She doesn't know it but she has just caught the green river. Killer chiller ridgway is arrested and jailed for solicitation when he was arrested he asked cops not to call his wife and then he said i think it contact the green river taskforce because they knew him really well apparently not well enough because they let him go again by this point. Wait ridgway has been terrorizing women for almost twenty years. The last remaining member of the task force detective. Tom jensen follows the evidence. Didn't i was always aware that we had these samples and we monitored sign ansa d._n._a. At me nobody had an idea that science would evolve to the point that we would be able to make a positive connections between people based on miniscule amounts of degraded d._n._a. As soon as dna science has developed enough enough for an accurate result. Tom jensen submits gary ridgway's dna for testing. This is our last chance. Let's see what we can get. They called me up. You gotta come down here to the lab because some tell you laid it out for me. One of the samples they got a pretty strong match and the other one neighbor favor developing a match on both of match gary ridgway the d._n._a. Match proved that he had had sex with some of the victims but they didn't prove that he had killed them. So cops needed more gary. Ridgway has held a steady job as a painter for decades at kenilworth trucking detective tip. Tom johnson believes the paint can be a gold mine. If you've ever spray painted something you'll know that there's always residue around and just in the form i'm of dust and it was all over his clothes and when at paint was analyzed it was a very specific kind of paint that was only used at kenilworth tracking police. Finally they have the evidence to arrest gary ridgway. They wait for him outside his place of work gary ridgeway. You're under arrest. He had the right two thousand one after almost two decades of murders. The green river killer is finally in custody. Meanwhile ridgway's wife judith is visited by police and told that her husband is the green river killer but she initially refuses to believe it. She really was devoted to him. I think she really believed that he was wrongly. Accused investigators. I can now connect ridgway to at least seven of the murdered women but they suspect is responsible for dozens more. We basically went back through history. Look at at least seventy five unsolved murder cases to see if we could tie any of them to rich wayne. The defense attorneys came up with a plan. We're ridgway would help. The detectives solve unsolved murders murder that were out there but they needed something in return. Basically we took the death penalty off the table. There would be no death penalty in exchange for his confessions certainly certainly if anybody deserves to be sentenced to death ridgway. Is that person however the greater good was far more important. The police have many any unidentified bodies that they believe could be ridgway. Victims police set up a special room so they can observe and question ridgway at will the table to sit down and write and he was our house guest or six months which way almost never showed any emotion throughout the six months that we interviewed him <music>. I'm not sure that gary's capable of feeling regret to be honest killed ridgway. You killed them all once he began confessing had a great deal of difficulty a sorting out his victims basically what he could remember his where he left them. The team takes ridgway on field trips into the forest to locate the bodies of missing women. He pointed those spots out so now we knew that that some of the cases that we had suspected might be related but had never made a positive link were we're now partners victims. Marie malvar was a woman who for many years was on the list ridgeway was able to take us to the location of where he said he had left her body after much searching of that area and clearing of the area <hes> by a large team of people were able to find her remains. I remember just being so elated. In some ways i mean i know that tons crazy but also just enormously relieved that we had actually done what we had hoped promised would be able to do which was to find some additional remains. Uh on november fifth two thousand three ridgway pleads guilty to forty eight charges of aggravated first degree murder. He also claims to have killed an additional twenty three women. It was the saddest case i've ever covered because the courtroom was filled with fathers and brothers and sisters and daughters mothers of these young women whose lives were just cut short people were sobbing and crying and angry he some of his victims relatives stood up and said i hope he dies in prison. Judge richard jones the sentences ridgway to forty eight life sentences plus four hundred an eighty years for tampering with evidence. Gary ridgway is in a maximum security prison. He is serving multiple life sentences. He'll never get out of prison but he's alive and many of the families of his victims kim's find that to be the hardest thing of all that the green river killer didn't get the death penalty. Jerry ridgway was a normal guy he he was the guy that would be sitting next to you in church. He was the guy who you would meet in your neighborhood and say oh. I met a good guy. We should have them over for dinner. Nobody thought he was capable capable of the brutality and the murders that he ultimately confessed to doing never underestimate who you're dealing with because the killer. It doesn't look like what you'd think. He looks like i hope you enjoyed this. Episode of murder may be famous. Don't forget to subscribe at podcast one dot com with the podcast one app or apple podcasts dot com. That's our e e l z dot com for clips extras and more from the t._v. version of the series including chilling reenactments in crime scene photos that you'll only feed on meals channel five years on your t._v. Be for real dot com. I'm steve helling. This episode is brought to you by progressive. You've saving money on your car. Insurance easy with progressive is an average savings of six hundred ninety nine dollars a year for customers switch and save in fact customers can qualify for an average of six discounts on their auto policy when they switched to progressive discounts for just starting quote online or owning multiple vehicles. Get your quote online at progressive dot dot com and see how much you could be saving discounts not available in all states and situations.
Friday politics: Republican write-in effort, and a growing backlash for the Seattle City Council
"I'm Angela King. Much of the chatter in local political circles, this week has been around the potential effort by Republicans to mount a write in candidacy for lieutenant governor the top two vote-getters coming out of the primary this month were Democrats and joining us to discuss that along with the growing backlash to the Seattle. City Council our regular Friday politics duo Jodi, Baltar host of civic cocktail on the Seattle Channel and CR Douglas He's a political analyst for q thirteen news. Good to have both join US good morning. Hello so Johnny let me start with you. What do you make of this rather unusual Republican effort it's a clever backdoor way to end the thirty six year drought for Republicans and the Washington Governor's office. The thinking is this. If Joe Biden is elected and newly reelected governor Jay is offered some Primo environmental job in Biden's cabinet. Then whoever is lieutenant? Governor moves up governor at least until the next general election as you think to Democrats events to the general election, ten district Congressman Andy Heck and state senator remarkable us. Republicans are indeed discussing the possibility that any Republican right in can get maybe forty percent in November and then win their druthers would be for a big GOP name like former State Attorney General Rob Mckenna Rob, told me yesterday no not interested other names sheriff Dave Reichert Dino Rossi former Republican Party Chair Susan Hutchinson and twenty sixteen gubernatorial candidate Bill Bryant who also told me? He's No. All right. So CR, what do you think the odds are that something like this would work? Very slim listen it's incredibly hard to succeed as a write in especially for a big statewide office just just look at the US Senate only two to have ever done it in the entire history of our country. the most recent was Lisa Murkowski from Alaska but she was already the senator she had lost her primary reelection turned it around and one a writing campaign a few months. Later, you really need that kind of stature the pull something like this off because you're trying to get people not just check a box but to write in a name. Now there is one who's kind of toy with it. Former gubernatorial candidate Josh were freed. He sent signals that he's interested in doing this but it it'd be an uphill battled for the reasons I've suggested he's just not a household name. All right. Well, what about the two Democrats who did make it through the primary what separates them and who has the upper hand? Well, this is a battle represents the real split in the Democratic, party moderates versus Progressives Congressman. Denny heck he has the bigger profile longer track record and so I think really has the advantage but state Senator Marco obvious he came in with us with solid second-place showing about six points behind hack. He comes from from the more activists you know sanders wing of the party. If you will heck is more moderate be good interesting to watch I. Mean Actually beat Heck in King County you real blue King. County. So He's definitely tapped into that progressive energy That's. Best only in King County Statewide Denny Heck is the clear front runner. He has a lot of money. You'll see a lot of add he does have to remind people of his long connection and work in Olympia, but he has been pretty solid in Congress for eight years. I remember being very impressed by the questions he asked Special Counsel, Robert? Newark. When he testified before the House Intelligence Committee and here's A. Key had promised not to run or campaign for governor include leaves. He gets some points for that and Leah's from what I've seen has been much more circumspect on that question. All right. Let's shift gears a little bit and take a look at story that continues to make headlines the Seattle, city council, and what seems to be growing backlash to their recent actions to fund the SPD. Joni take it away. Seattle City Council is finally getting an ear full many. Feel somewhat unsophisticated council but fell for a budgeting slogan and then tried to govern by that slogan they clearly active without studying the issue sufficiently the resignation of the city's first black female police chief galvanized a lot of people that are to recall efforts underway one against. Lisa, herbold and West Seattle and another and the Capitol Hill area against John. Lewis. What. And there are a couple of efforts to change how the council is elected. I am not a fan of district elections never was in there are efforts as soon as next year. To make more or maybe all council members run citywide I think it's a good idea. The the backlash certainly took a little time to get going, but it's it's real however recalls are are tough. It can't just be disagreement over policy or a vote. That's the next election is for recalls really are meant for malfeasance or scandal or real breach of duty I mean. There's actually challenging the legitimacy of the one be mounted against her so we'll see if any of these meet the standards can actually go forward but even if they don't make the ballot, just the talk of one, just a thread one I think we'll give some council members pause you know to be a little more cautious around around the SPD budget maybe not salon, but the very likely herbal. Now, right CR Douglas is the political analyst for key thirteen news and Johnny Baltar the host of civic cocktail on the Seattle Channel they make up our Friday politics do oh, thank you both for taking some time this morning. Thank you you bet.
154: What if your mom was murdered by a serial killer?
"I had total grief and sadness and fear and just also incredulous nece like. I just disbelief that it happened. But it's different when you lose somebody who hurt you term a presentation of the audio podcast. This is actually happening. Serial killer Today's episode of this is actually happening. Brought to you by better. Help as there's something that interferes with your happiness so is preventing you from achieving your goals. If so better help online counseling. Is there for you better? Help will assess your needs and match you with your own. Licensed professional therapist better. Health is not a crisis line. And it's not self help. It is professional counseling done. Securely online offering a broad range of expertise which may not be locally available in many areas. Better help committed to facilitating great therapeutic matches. And if you're not happy with your counselor you can request a new one at anytime. 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That's better help dot com slash happening My Mom and dad were what some people called back to. The landers it was a movement in the sixties and seventies to live out in the country or live on a commune and they decided when I was born to leave all the family behind and go from South Carolina all the way to Washington State. So my childhood. My early childhood was spent in the back of a pickup truck crossing the country several times and living out of campgrounds and my dad would go and Into town get some construction work to feed us. And I think we're on food stamps. So that was in the early Seventies. They were into macrobiotic eating and not drinking alcohol and not smoking cigarettes but they had started out meeting each other in college doing hard drugs especially my dad and They met right away. She was a freshman. He was a senior at Mars Hill. College North Carolina. I had been raised with my mother telling me that she lost her education because she became pregnant with me and in fact she had to drop out even though she had a full scholarship to this college in North Carolina. Because she was doing drugs she had to drop. She lost her scholarship and didn't know what to do with her life and so she went back home to New York City to her mother to try. figure out what to do when. I knew them Mike what I was conscious of them. As as a a daughter they were clean and sober and there was literally to my memory. Hardly any even any beer in the house and that sobriety was most of my childhood until I was thirteen. That's when the drug problems really started so most of my childhood they were very clean and sober and super healthy. And we're talking brown rice and CARIB chips and grow your own vegetables in the backyard and really out in the country where we didn't even have a refrigerator. We use the seller the root cellar to refrigerate our food. We had a tiny black and white. Tv We had no phone We had one for seventy three Ford pickup and yeah and then we ended up having to move to the city because we have to be close to services because we were young babies and it wasn't safe to have my mom be out in the country with no vehicle and so we moved. I think I was in first or second grade but only moved right into the suburbs of Seattle. My mom was mentally ill. And it's really hard to describe what mental illness looks like two people who might not have experienced it even though the house was clean and sober she was super abusive and she just had very strange ideas about reality and she isolated herself. She didn't really have any friends per mental illness would get bad enough as sometimes she would hallucinate. She had like a Jesus Complex. She thought that she'd seen him and started seeing black dots and thought she was having a vision of Jesus so Childhood was not happy I remember That she was having as kneel down and do like evening prayers and but I remember thinking starting to have doubts about her religious beliefs and questioning her in my head that like. Maybe these prayers were inauthentic. I feel like very early on. I approached her with disbelief because she didn't seem to be able to accurately report her own life stories and her own memories. I don't think she ever was intentionally lying. I think that she just emotionally and mentally. Didn't have a good picture of the truth. And then the heavy drug use like the actual drug addiction only really came into play in the late eighties with the crack epidemic and when I was about thirteen the event that started my mother on hard drugs again after thirteen to fifteen years of sobriety not counting pot visit. She had spent too many years being a mother where she didn't feel completely comfortable. Being a mother I guess and she had a breakdown and all these details are not really known to me because my dad was dealing with it and not really briefing us. I think my mother actually saw psychiatrists because they. They admitted her to a hospital. And then psychiatrists wrote up a piece of paper which. I said something about a bipolar diagnosis. She potentially had something more serious in addition to bipolar. But I think what started. The heavy drug use is that she just couldn't take being a mom anymore after all those years of potentially not really being that comfortable being a stay at home mom and so she broke out and I. I don't know when she had a breakdown I know she has a couple big ones and she broke out and just decided to take off. She went from being completely isolated in the house. No friends to she went and got a job at a chocolate factory and started just hitting the streets. My Dad was kind of like for all intents and purposes. He was the stable one. The one that made sense But later he ended up getting just as addicted to crack as she did and abandoning as equally. It was really quick process of their starting Xi starting to leave home and now all the sudden they're never home and there's a phone in the house so they can do drug deals. My Dad got into it as well. My Dad ended up prematurely withdrawing his eleven year retirement fund for the city and blowing. It all lying all his money and spending most of his adult life trying to repay the. Irs My dad tried to save my mom from the streets from doing hard drugs. He took her to Hawaii and thinking he could get her healthy and spent a lot of money there but he just wasn't able to control what was going on. I know very little of what was going on. I just know that the worst part of the story is that she did and up resorting to prostitution and I became the surrogate parent and I have three younger sisters so my journals are have this refrain of I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted I mean I'm fourteen years old but I'm taking care of like my four year old sister like a mother and my trying to keep track of my other two sisters feeding making dinner cleaning the House doing my homework. I don't even know what I did. I just know that I recorded that. I gave my sister a bath every night and that I was exhausted. Our family started breaking apart when I was thirteen. Which is when you might think. That's when you really starting to form your clear ideas of self and separating apparent from yourself I had to skip being teenager and that that really has impacted me the rest of my life to because teenagers do really important things developmentally to transition between being a child in an adult and so I still have these the sense that I never was a teenager and then I have to make up for that somehow but I mean I'm yeah I just so since I haven't played enough. A relative reported us to child protective services. And I got a note from the counselor's office at my High School. That was signed. Cps and I didn't know at CPS Matt. And I came home to a social worker saying pack. Your staff were taking you to a home and where your sisters and I'm like I don't know where they are like. They go off every afternoon and find homes to to feed them. We were put in foster care when I was about sixteen and we ended up at a suburb. Probably about thirty miles away from where we were living. I developed B S. When I was pretty early on when I was like in junior high irritable bowel syndrome. Not just feels like your bowels are on fire. What cowing and describe it so all? My stress went into my stomach. I had a warped sense of self and thought that I was very ugly and undesirable and I think that all comes from being emotionally abused and being told you're not good enough in many different ways deep down. I don't trust people to completely be there for me. I don't think that I was angry. I don't know it's all pretty whited out. A lot of my memory is convoluted and it. Our just gone trauma. alters things so much. I've tried to write poems about it. I have upon that. I really like called the white field which is about my memory being whited out and about there. Just just being this desert. It's like a lifetime process of trying to get to know myself that I think everyone goes through. Everyone goes through Why am I the way I am the human condition and sometimes the questions about who we are understanding ourselves? Just remain unanswered. I think outwardly. I seemed fine I was still getting like not straight as but pretty close to straight as in school and going school are regularly foster care was really different for me than it was for my sisters. Because I've always like a a rule follower and I always have liked structure and order and so for me I really disorderly situation of our. Parental abandonment was being made orderly and was the problem was being solved by putting us in foster care and I was grateful. Our foster family was just a a single mom so six kids in a very small house and one parent and she had a temper so I along with her. Because I wasn't rebellious and I was like grateful social services because someone else's Cook dinner for me every night so I can do my homework. Someone's GonNa make sure that we go to the doctor and the dentist and normalcy was reinstated. She fostered as for about a year and then my dad Was getting his life together. social services gave him a list of conditions that he had to complete before he could regain custody together. They came up with an arrangement that he would take two of us out of four of us back in. I chose not to go back with him. And I I felt like he had forfeited his parenting rights. Onc- do hard drugs in abandon your kids. It's over I don't care that you got your life back together and you're sober and you're working your field again. There's no trust and so me and one of my sisters went onto a second foster home and that home was lovely and problem free and I got my own bedroom for the first time in my life and It was a very sweet Hawaiian family with my dad. We started out having supervised visits with child protective services. I just remember I won a scholarship to study abroad between sixteen seventeen and I remember telling him not asking him that. I was going to go to Germany for a year so I was a sophomore. I applied for a scholarship to Germany. I got a full scholarship to be an exchange student. I was in the process of getting all my paperwork and my passport and stuff ready to be an exchange student in my foster father was helping me and my dad was not telling us anything about my mom. I don't even know if my dad told us that our mom was missing. We just knew that we were hearing from her so she could have been in Seattle cutting off contact with my dad or she could have been gone. I completely gone. There was a point in early spring of Nineteen Ninety where he stopped hearing from her until then she would check in via phone on a daily basis or throughout the day. I don't know how often or maybe it became less and less frequent. In September of Nineteen Ninety some mushroom hunters in enumclaw Washington. Were foraging in some forest and found her bones. My Dad had filed a missing persons report and was shuffled around because we lived in a small suburb called Edmonds but the bones had been discovered and put in a more somewhere in Seattle and so basically just do paperwork. There was no connecting the dots for like those several months from September to January. We will never know. When she was killed she disappeared around February or March of nineteen ninety. The day that my dad told us that her mom had died was January nineteen ninety-one. I found out that our mom had been killed in my dad's kitchen in this little apartment. And he just said your mom's gone to heaven which was really really insufficient for for me. I was sixteen but he had to tell us. In a way that I guess that was appropriate for a ten year span in age of kids so for me it wasn't really appropriate to hear your mom's gone to heaven. It was totally insufficient. And he was sitting on her cremated ashes. They were in his closet and he wasn't telling us he wasn't telling US anything. One thing that I clearly remember in the process of getting in her death was that I felt that she would have left us either way. It's obviously the least ideal way to quote unquote leave to be to be killed. But she was going to break up the family and stop being our mother. I felt strongly that she was going to find a way to do that. No matter what after about six months after hearing that she had been killed. I went on exchange year with studied abroad in Germany. It was incredible and it was the first time in my life where I got to. Totally be enriched and have everything I mean it sounds selfish but have things be focused on me so I went from being kind of a parent to. I get to be a kid. I get to be a student. There was the exchange student admitted to this school because it was East Germany in the wall. Just come down. I remember having an really really amazing time and it helped me come out of my shell of being this abused abandoned foster kid to being this like a nourished treasured special kid. You're very special. When you're an exchange student everybody knows you and I was really accepted and my host. Mom said that I had nightmares about murder. She remembers more probably than I do. I know over my lifetime. I've had a couple of dreams where I'm the killer. I'm somebody who says I've got a gun and we're on a rooftop and it's like a movie and I'm giving you the ultimatum you can jump right can shoot you. Today's episode of this is actually happening is brought to you by Madison Reed. For decades women have had two options for colouring. Their hair outdated at home color or the time and expense of a traditional salon. Now you can take coloring your hair at home to the next level with Madison Reed delivering gorgeous professional hair color to your door starting at twenty two dollars. 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Had like very brief first boyfriend finding out that my mother was missing starting when she disappeared and after finding out that she had been killed had an impact that I can't define but I know for years it felt like I was in the dark. I was just. I can't describe what it was like but you don't fully know where you're at emotionally. You don't know. There's no way you can introspective your way to some clarity. When that's happened to you I remember encouraging my sisters to like. Let's talk about mom. Let's have a conversation about mom because no we wouldn't talk about her. I was the only one of my sisters that really wanted to pursue the truth and so I didn't go through an extensive period of of searching and following up with detectives but I do remember that I was holding onto all the questions for years and her case has become a cold case. It's still exists. But it's it's like open but it's closed anyone who grew up in the Pacific northwest in the eighties about the Green River killer. The Green River killer picked up younger looking women who were runaways not necessarily prostitutes but women were who were just on the streets For whatever reason and he has I could be wrong but to my knowledge he has the record the US record for most victims. He has forty nine victims. The Green River is somewhere in south Washington. I don't know exactly where it is. But it was named that because the first two victims were found dumped in there in the river from my understanding bodies would often be found in states of decomposition so it was hard to solve the case. Washington state is a really thick right growing area. It's a lot of greenery a lot of forest and it's easy to dump a body and have it not be discovered because things grow so fast. His first victims were killed when I was in second grade. The only thing that you knew when you were growing up was that there was this guy at large and that he kept killing so you grew up with the fear of this man after the eighties and nineties and the knowledge that nobody knew where he was or who he was. I was a college journalist and I remember calling the King County detective from the news room using the phone calling the Green River Task Force and ask if any any progress had been made in the case and talking to them and them saying well. We're just a two two man task force at this point. I think our family suspected that our mom was a victim of this. Serial killer and it was unsolved. So I'm I'm guessing that I was calling to ask them to you. Think my mother's part of this case and I feel like I remember the detective saying it was a coal case but they that they had not ruled out the possibility of my mom being part of the Green River killer of his victims. There was a rumor that he might be a police officer because that was why that was people's theory of why he would get away with it for so long. I remember that being one rumor and it turned out that he was just this ordinary guy. He was to for some reason just able to cover his tracks that he was a truck painter and he had a family he was married. He was caught in two thousand three. When I was twenty nine it takes twelve years for my mom's case to be solved and the reason it was solved is because DNA technology advanced. So the police were able to give Gary Ridgway a piece of gauze to chew on and they analyzed his saliva and matched it. At that point I had moved to California. I was living in Sacramento California. And Somehow I WANNA say this to anybody out there. No matter how off the grid you think you are the media can find you. I had people from hard copy. This true crime. I don't even know what kind of show it is was very popular at the time calling me up and asking me to go on and do an interview which. I turned down and I wasn't on the lease and I wasn't on the phone bill. I had no utilities in my name. I had no cell phone They they found me. And that's how I found out I must have gotten caught by the police. I but my memory has selected that out and has has decided that getting contacted by a national. Tv show was more important than the police finding out who killed her knowing the answer after twelve years is at once a relief and then also a total new beginning of now. I'm going to start processing the DAF. I had my first breakdown that year in two thousand three and was kind of a big one. I think I had it because I went back home to the Seattle area and her case was just all over the papers and it's really a reopened. It retraumatize you when you have to see stuff on the front page of the Seattle Times your brain switches channels and you're no longer really in your your regular space anymore. You don't sleep for three to five days when it's still unknown. Feel like you're maybe you're underwater your head center. Underwater whole consciousness is kind of in the dark. And then you get the answer your cases solved and then yeah and then you start processing but I mean obviously you're processing death and grief and loss the whole time but you're processing in a different way when you know the answer because then you have to start thinking I mean imagine having the visual in your head of like your mom getting murdered in the forest I think about my mom being on the ground in the forest and this man and that never goes away in the seventeen years since we've found out since her case has been solved. My processing has been constant. What is it like to have the case be so public to see our name and print and our mom's face a mugshot in newspapers? The case was in people magazine. It was in the New York Times. It is super strange. It's completely to describe how it feels to have to be in the newspaper. I personally wish that people would not sensationalize serial killers. It's so understandable to me like when I watch a murder mystery and I'm fascinated you know and it's just a fictional account. I understand. Oh people really get into this because it's actually has happened and it's like a hobby but part of me. Just really is disgusted anytime. Someone is a true crime fan. I I kind of just tried to accept them as they are but it put some distance between me and them and because they really have no idea and I'm out of the four of us one of us one of my sisters and I is actually a true crime fan and the other three of us are like. Let's just keep all of this at arm's length and ten foot pole distance like we don't need to watch so even among us there's descent you know as to how to handle the case. I actually did me a true crime. Fan who was fascinated with my case. And he bought my Zine and contacted me. He was only one is contacted me. And he distributed my zine to like people in different countries who are interested in the case and I just think this guy was not completely sane like. He literally wanted as a job he wanted. It was seeking a job cleaning up crime scenes. He wanted to be on the scene of murderers to see the blood and staff and he just had a very very strange look in his eye and wanted to be my friend and I just made some copies of my Zine and let him send him out and then just cut it off from there. Basically I spent years searching for my mom's identity trying to understand her not understand the murder case but to understand her because I wanted to understand why she was the kind of mother that she was how she went from being like a very very self disciplined like holistic health nut to being a crack addict within a few years. That was the nature of my processing alongside the processing of. She's been murdered. How'd I how do I handle that? I'm a poet and writer and I've been writing poems to her all along imagining her childhood. Imagining what it's like to be her. I've written a Zine which is a self published booklet that is composed of all the newspaper articles of her case in chronological order. And it's interspersed with poems. I've written to her and it just became easier and easier to understand what had happened and easier to conceive of my own identity as someone this had happened to in the early two thousands. I found a yearbook of my mother's I hand wrote letters to these classmates and this one teacher of my mother's to ask them if they knew anything about her. I heard back from two or three people. Only and one was the classmate who ended up sending me the birth announcement for my birth that she had received and Letters about three letters that my mother had written to her talking about becoming a citizen citizen because my mother was born in Hungary and she emigrated. Here didn't speak the language at all when she came to New York when she was twelve and one the had said that my dad was for drug dealer. One teacher answered my letter and she ended up being this nun who was living and working in Chapas Mexico so I started corresponding with Carlotta. Asking her over the years about her work and basically she teaches indigenous. Mayan women photography so after ten years of Correspondence. I came into some money and bought a ticket and went down there and this woman who was roughly seventy years old. Who'd been my mother's teacher in the nineteen seventies in Albany? New York took me through the streets and the markets of San Cristobal de Las Casas. Chiapas and told me all these details about my mom's personality that no one really hurley anyone. There's one other person who will talk to me about her. My great aunt. She told me that my mother was is very smart and very classy European that they spent a lot of late nights talking having long talks in the dorms. Because my mother was a border so she. She didn't go home on the weekends to hear that my mom was like a normal person and that she was lovable and likable. And which I tend to think that my mom's not that she only had negative characteristics but this woman was like no I really enjoy talking to her and we were really close and she remember her like yesterday. Most of the time these days like it's been thirty years. I feel so it'd and able to deal with the reality and so fully in acceptance and once or twice a year something like let's say I'm I'm on a bus. I'm visiting my family and Seattle and I'm going by the airport and I just will make me think there's women out here in this area because my mother had been in that area that are lost in that might be getting picked up by a serial killer right now and that thought seems so benign. It doesn't come with like sharp stabbing pains or memories or the whole case coming up or anything. It's just a real real like thought. I think I think somewhere. There's a woman down there who lost out on the streets and then you have as a woman. You have the fear that stranger things happened. What if this repeats in your life? What if a boyfriend kills you? Which is probably the deepest darkest fear like. What if my fate repeats? I had it last night I'm going on a date tonight with I have met and he wants to use his scooter to take me around. And I'm GonNa tell him in person that I don't feel comfortable with him taking me around in his scooter. Because I have this thought in my head that like you know. Men Aren't that safe. And how do I know and I just was like? I don't want that thought I don't want any kind of manifestation or anything to even enter my mind I wanNA feel safe. Our mind is constantly cycling through repeatedly over and over again. Everything that's happened to us all the time like where pretty we think we're pretty in control but if we're sit down and you meditate you realize your thoughts are doing insane things all the time and I can tell the difference between a PTSD type or sponsor. I was told that I had. Ptsd at one point. And just a kind of thought that I'm having and so the thought so I'm having now are not PTSD. When I was about thirty within the fears after the case got solved I was diagnosed with PTSD. And I was having. Kind of like flashback type thoughts it was just not not healthy not good and so. I live a physical distance away from the case away from the cemetery away from the Seattle Times and a lot of people in California. Haven't heard of the case even though it's such a big one so I don't have to do any explaining ever When things are in the paper because it it reoccurs dude is in Walla Walla prison for life I don't even. I'm assuming all here when he dies but I'm sure. His days are numbered this point because of his age. But I don't have to walk around like being outed I in the one who chooses to get this information al and no one would have a clue the reason why I'm in a strong place now and a very strong place and that I have been in a very strong place for a long time is because I've been so vocal about my mom's case apart from writing poetry publicly reading the Poetry Writing Zine. I contacted an Organisation for family members of murder victims so I contacted one these organizations and told them I have an op. Ed piece that is against the death penalty. Can you help me get it published? And years later I've had this op in three different papers and the argument is thus that first of all. I'm a pacifist. And whether or not my mom had been killed by serial killer I would still be against the death penalty for murderers but in our case our case was specifically solved because Gary Ridgway was given a deal life in prison in exchange for information and when he was told that he would not be put to death he said. Oh yes I remember. Let me give you some names. And our mother's name was one of the names. Marta reeves and if the Sheriff Dave Reichert had he not chosen to go that route and had he chosen to say vengeance is more important. Let's put this guy to death. He's killed so many women than our case would never be solved. And I don't think I would have healed as much as I've healed at all through being vocal and constantly telling people about my mom's case that has all caused me to heal so much and of course time heals everything so I no longer feel like my mom. Is this mystery that needs to be solved. I understand that she was really conflicted about being a mom. And that's why she just split and that happens sometimes she would have left either way but doing crack in the crack epidemic basically took her out of the house and into the hands of serial killer. It's really weird but I don't hold any anger towards him. I had total grief and sadness and fear and just also incredulous nece like liked. Just disbelief that it happened. But it's different and when you lose somebody who hurt you. I have finally forgiven her but I think for years. I felt like a lot of anger because I felt like she was the one who's made my life hard. Who's made it hard to be me. And so the anger was more or the estrangement was more towards her and not towards the killer. It was more like just total grief grief and loss and in maybe part of me deep down feels guilty that I don't feel anger and I don't think I've liked consciously likes asked myself do I forgive him. It's just I've let go what strange's like I have more of a sense of identity after the murder case than from before because it's my early childhood where most the memories are completely either. Just gone or unreliable. The murderers kind of one of the central if not V. Central Event of my life that I've had to survive everything else's around that central event. My identity is that I'm really strong and courageous and that I've survived and thrived and yeah I think I felt special because I feel like losing my mom dealing with a murder case in the news in the media for twenty years makes you so strong and definitely sets you apart completely from the general public and so I do have like the secret sense of myself as like. Yeah I think everyone should think that they themselves are special. You know and everyone should have their reasons for why they think they're unique in their special going through this case and being part of of this famous serial killer case really does set me apart. I am diagnosed bipolar. And I live a really healthy life and so I tend to think of things other than bipolar as more serious. This spectrum starts out as depression. Anxiety bipolar really socks and community challenged. Depends how you handle it. Then when you're getting really really serious it's schizophrenia or multiple personality disorder. I think for a long time. I thought that I needed to understand my mother as a mentally ill person and why she had abused us and why she had mothered the way she had mothered. And as you get older your perspective shifts finally away from being that of the daughter the child to okay. I could put myself in this position of parent and especially dealing with bipolar. Like you. You start to get really get. This is why she got angry. This is why she lost her temper. This is why she didn't really have a good grasp on reality. I can see how if she had not been on medication. She wasn't on medication. I could see what would happen in my brain. I could see how I would start to construct stories about staff get paranoid. I've definitely gotten paranoid on medication. I came to realize yeah. My Mom's treatment of us was about her and not about us. And it's not our fault and then I have to put up with the frustration that my memory is so imperfect that I'm I'm just not going to completely get it and I'm fully okay with that at this point if I want to know things I can look in my journals mostly. I don't I feel like the searching is done. I don't think that my trust issues are so deep that they're going to prevent me from being in a long term relationship but I do just hold people deep down. I hold them a little bit of a distance. The longest I've been in a relationship is three and a half years. Most my friends at this point have gotten married. And they're staying together with the same person and I continue to have different partners for short term periods and I don't know if that's because of trauma or bipolar disorder or just also like part of his generation and so part of me is always wondering you know. Is that pattern ever GONNA switch? Could it change? Can I find somebody that I ended up staying with for a really long time? I have faith that there's possibility about happening. But they think people are very imperfect and we want them to be perfect and we want them to love US completely and in love US unconditionally. And it could be that not. Very many people are capable of kind of love and at the same time the catch twenty two is that you have to have some faith and belief that love Israel and no matter. What kind of parents you had or you know how they treated you when you were a kid. And how that informs like your sense of self. You still have to believe like I'm completely lovable to the way I am Today's episode featured Nova Reeves to find out more about Nova. You can google her article on the death. Penalty in the Tacoma Tribune. You can hear her reading her poetry on youtube by searching for quiet lightning and you can also get a copy of her zine by emailing her directly at Nova leaves at G MAIL DOT COM. That's an Lovie A. R. E. E. V. E. S. At Djamil Dot Com. This is actually happening is brought to you by me witness missile. If you love what we do you can join the community on our official instagram page. At actually happening you can also rate and review the show on I tunes which helps tremendously to boost visibility to a larger community of listeners. And if you want to help sustain the show for the coming years you can contribute a small monthly donation through our Patriot page at patriotair dot com slash happening. Thank you for listening until next time stay tuned.
Deepish Thoughts with Paul Holes
"Deepish odds with kim and caroline with all these cases that we've been working on over the last year caroline. You and i a lot of times will kind of have our own little pet projects cases that really stick with us or that we want to follow up on. I have one one of the very first cases that we covered The bunker story there was so much to that story that we couldn't even get into but since there's more there's more information on that story that we're going to bring to you. Here are very soon in our anniversary show. But you haven't exciting update on one of your pet projects. Yeah i mean this case out of all the cases we've done the fallen angels case. I'm not gonna say. I'm obsessed with it but i think if you listen to it if you haven't pleased you it's it's just it just as a gut punch because of you know not only the victims but also you know the family members and just kind of following up and what happened so it's cold case but we have an exciting development to share january marks the thirty fifth anniversary of the murder of the young mother nikki and her four year old daughter adrienne on january thirtieth nineteen eighty-six and here's detective marty garland from bremerton. He's the cold case. Detective working that case and he is just so passionate. This is a cold case. But it is not cold. And i've and that's why it's got its claws in me because we can fight. I feel like they're very close to finding. But here's a recap marnie. We'll talk about the case you know. Of course we took a hard look at the father of the child since he was intimately involved still with nikki and and they saw each other often and i mentioned that you know he was the last one to reported seeing her alive and he was also the person that found the body. So you know. He becomes a person of interest for us but Then with no reason really from the get go to believe that this had anything to do with domestic violence. This a theme that was horrific. It was bloody both of these murders. Were very personal up. Close and tight you know in order to literally strangle the life out of somebody you've got to have evil in your heart and you've gotta have intent and you've got to think it through and there's lots of time when that person is dying that you have an opportunity to change your mind and let them live in this person that did this Not only did that to helene but also to patriot. And it's you know it takes a special kind of evil in order for somebody to be able to do that to anybody but especially a child. And that's the thing about this case. A mother and her four year old daughter were murdered. And it's literally gotten. I think when i was doing my research there was like one sort of deep dive into the case. That happened ten years ago. So that's one of the things that was like. How is this possible that you know a four year old child and her mother are killed and it barely gets any press and this happened right around the same time. Ajami ramsey. yeah it's a really similar case. She was killed christmas day. Nineteen ninety-six her. Body was found in the family home in boulder colorado Nicky and adrian were found in their home. Her parents were initially suspects. Just like kenny was initially a suspect. Her case remains unsolved. Just like this one so many similarities and yet her murder gets national attention for years and years and years is still they just did a special about it and this case has gotten almost none not even from local media. Yeah so then. After talking to adrian's father. Marty garland detective mardi garland referred to him earlier in that cut. They looked at him hard and he talked about what that was like for him. And it really gives you. You know we've all seen the shows and all that but when you actually talk to somebody who's gone through that process it just brings it to a whole 'nother level on top of that you know it's thirty-five years on and i was the first reporter that he ever talked to and thirty five years. There's when somebody puts their trust in you as a reporter and tells you their story and it's to the bone like that. I can't describe what that does to you because you feel like okay. I gotta go i gotta go out there and solve it and it's so you can't do that because there's been so many people who've detectives that work the case and all that but i'm gonna play cut here and you'll see what i mean. Somebody just need to hit a story. If somebody can hear story maybe somebody can just look more details and say you know they. They missed the key ingredient here. Because as i say before there's not a day that on the time that i see my daughter wave at me as i was driving off to the time that i flew and brown to try to figure out Somebody pinch me. This is a drink. This can't be real. You read about this you hear about this. But the witnesses you know and people who used to say you know. I know you feel not say. Have you lost a loved one. Have you bury a level in. Have you ever had to bear your child. I say you ain't never have to do that. You have no idea. I wouldn't wish it on anybody. It's a pain is is something that you would never ever get over so i tell parents to this day when you go home you grab your child. You hug them. You love them because you never know what tomorrow will bring. I still remember. When i first heard that that soundbite when we did the initial episode i did. I went home and hugged my kids. Because he's absolutely right. Oh yeah. I mean i did. I did the same thing. And i think that when you i mean you're tearing up because no it's not it's it's just you know that's why you have the armchair detectives you have You know podcasters. You have people wanna kind of disarmed true crime. But it's like because you hear these stories and then when we're so close to it because you know interviewing him you just can't get it out of your head and and i think that that's where i'm at with this case. Another thing is is that this is absolutely solvable. There is dna. And here's marty to explain the dna every detective that has worked on this case that i've talked to and i've talked to. All of them have agreed that the case is solvable. It's just a matter of finding that kind of needle in a haystack. And that's why we go through cold cases and we re examine things and we apply new technology and we take a look at it from a different perspective and try to whiten our field of vision. This case has dna. It's got lots of people who on new orleans lots of people who were in the area at the time that the murders were committed. We've had a really good time line. We know who is in her life. The time we've got great clues as far as who was kind of in her social circles and those people have been contacted and amazingly. You know here it is. What three almost thirty. Five years later and a lot of those people are still alive. And i've been able to interview them. You know we've traveled to indiana mississippi and florida and Chicago to do interviews in to collect dna and to follow up on this case. So it is something that we consider to be solvable. It's just a matter of that needle in haystack. I think another really huge going for them. Is kenny himself You know a lot of people. If they were the number one suspect and taken given polygraph tests i mean he was taken through the wringer as a suspect in this case he could have just walked away and said forget you guys. You're not really looking for the killer if you're looking at me and not been cooperative. But he has been so cooperative that here we are you know decades later. And he's still really pressing investigators and the public in general to do something about this case he wants it solved and and having him as an ally and willing to talk about. It is a huge huge benefit for investigators. In part of that is the relationship that marty was able to establish with kenny. Like marty's the one that actually connected me with kenny. Who has mentioned before and thirty five years. He hasn't talked to the media. Hasn't talked to a reporter and he was like. Hey you know be gentle with him. He's been through a lot. It really meant a lot that he said that. And so you've got a you know he's really invested in it kenny. You've got a detective who's really hardcore and wants to solve the case. And here's where it gets exciting. We're obviously not investigators on the case but with our podcast. We can help put pieces together and as reporters help put pieces together. Not in a way. What investigations are all about putting together the pieces to make this picture right in the and we don't because we don't have the full. We don't have that puzzle. They've got that puzzle on a board somewhere that we can't see but we can't. We don't have missing pieces but we can get the word out and that's exactly after we did our podcast and you know it was one of our most listened to podcasts. Which really just. I was so happy about. The other thing is is reaching out to media contacts. You know a local paper in the in the area we reach out to them. I mean i just bomb them. The photos and i was like. Hey you know you should really do something on this. And they're like well. If you solve it get back to me. you know. because that's kind of. And that's been the attitude. I think of a lot of media outlets over the years where they just haven't had interest for what reason. Yeah i want to say it's race because this is a black family. And i just. My mind doesn't want to think that that would be the reason. But i honestly can't think of another one well and i think that that's been brought up and and you know we're not. We wouldn't be the first to bring up true crime that you know a lot of the people that get attention. Most of the families get attention. And there's a certain type you know white beautiful you know you look at a mandy staff case and it's like you know that was the cold case that took thirty years to solve and it's not right. This should have more media attention and the good news is though is that q thirteen has washington's most wanted and david rose is like a huge. You know he's the host of that show and I sent this over to him and was like hey. This has gotten literally almost no media attention. Will he gave it to the reporter there. Livia voice and so she will be doing something. I put her in contact with kenny. And mardi the detective. So that's really really exciting exciting. Because one of the things that they need to solve this case is another tip or to to help them. Put the pieces together like you said. They've got the dna they've got lots of witnesses. They've got so much information on this case it's going to take one or two little tips to string together and so hopefully with a station like you thirteen. That is so popular in the seattle area. A lot of people will see this story. And maybe they'll get that tip. They need right because they never you know in the. You know the jon benet ramsey case. I mean i'm sure. They got inundated with a million tips. But when you don't get any media attention hardly at all. How are people even know that the story happened. And so that's why even though it's you know thirty five years later is still important. But that's not it. We have another exciting development and this is probably even the most excited because they've talked about us. You know when. I talked to marty detective. He talked about genetic genealogy. Let's i'll i'll play that real quick so you can kinda here where it's at. I worked with a genetic genealogists on this case and because the dna is so old although we have a profile that's comparable from the scene. We don't have profile. That's complete enough to do. A complete genetic genealogy work now that doesn't mean that we haven't had a work up done because we have and i can't share with you. What the results of that are. But we did get some interesting information from that. And it's pointed us in some different directions than we were originally pointed and so that is something that we've done in. That is some some information that we're working of again. Unfortunately i can't go into that because It's part of an active investigation. So this is the exciting part. I mean you can tell that they they have done some genetic genealogy reading between the lines they have a profile but as we know with other cases it may not be a perfect profile. They need to do more testing to peel back the layers to it to get a better sample. Yeah i mean this has been a real watershed moment for forensic investigations like all of a sudden in just the last year or two. They've been able to take dna technology to this new plane of existence. Going from just being able to look dna from a suspect and then from a crime scene saying either yes they match or no. They don't to really using dna before they've even identified a suspect being able to take this tiny speck of human genetic code. Compare it with millions of people all over the world in just a few minutes. You remember cloyd steiger. The detective with seattle for decades went on to work for the washington state. Attorney general's office. He wants told us that forensic science has come further in the last year to then during his entire previous forty years with law enforcement but is still a relatively new technology. So that means it's still really expensive. They're still limited capacity so not every case that has dna has the opportunity to get in there and use these techniques. At least not yet. Yeah so this is where paul holes comes into play now. Many listeners will probably be familiar with paul holes. This all holes. I'm retired coal case investigator out of the contra costa county. Da -'s office. I found out about him watching the hbo documentary all begun in the dark. Paul was a part of the team that helped saul then catch that historic golden state killer. They were able to get a narrow him down after he terrorized a community for thirty years. Through dna and then an exhaustive genetic genealogy tree that that led them to find the golden state killer so that documentary was based on the incredible work of michelle mcnamara. Who wrote the book. I'll be gone in the dark. One woman's obsessive search for the golden state killer and she basically became. You know we. We started off talking about this kind of obsession that we feel over certain cases that you have and i have and she really became obsessed on the golden state killer and she ended up hooking up with paul even though she is not an investigator you know she's a writer True crime writer. She developed his trust with him. So where polls comes in in terms of the adrian. Nikki case is that he is the co host of the murder squad. Podcast when i was listening to one of their episodes on the taco bell strangler henry louis wallace he mentioned that this taco bell strangler killer could have killed in bremerton and it was a serial killer known to kill an east coast right. Yes yes and so kind of surprising to hear yeah possible connection with bremerton rate. I had never heard the case. And i'd never heard of the connections so i reached out to reimagine pd. And that's how. I learned about the nicky and adrian case and that i mean talk about twists and turns that killer henry louis. Wallace had so many things. In common with the nate nicky and adrian case in that he would kill women who worked at fast food restaurants. At the time. Nikki was working at an arby's kill some kids because some of those were young mothers and you would kill the children who could identify him and he would leave the little babies. And that's what happened. In nikki and adrian case well adrian was killed but her little baby brother was alive even though he was there in the apartment yeah he was six months old so there was so many connections and on top of that as it turns out the taco bell strangler was in bremerton because he was in the navy but it ended up being like four months after so the wasn't connected even though he was in the city. It was the wrong time. Yes so i thought to myself. You know paul holes a he helps yet the golden state killer. He's probably got tons of connections with dna. We have some genetic genealogy here. That could help. And i just have to toot caroline's horn for a second here. Caroline has a way of reaching out to people and getting people to talk with her like kenney. Who haven't talked to anybody before i mean i don't know what it is about you like there's something about you that is like magic where people understand and i think it's because you do a little bit where your heart on your sleeve and people see that and they see that you really care and you really wanna help and you really want to solve these cases so kudos to caroline for not only being brave enough to reach out to somebody like paul holes but actually having him not only call you back but wanting to get involved. Yeah i mean i really. I really appreciate that. Can because i do wear my heart on my sleeve. I mean there's no. There's no hiding denying that. But i do care and i can't get kenny out of my head. And for me. It justifies the uncomfortable ness of of being. It's funny because that initial phone call. Well i mean yeah. I reached out to him and i was like. Hey and then you didn't respond back and then i reached out again and then i reached out again. And that's what it takes to get somebody to get back to you and it doesn't always work but i feel like if i try then i can walk away anyway. Good news is paul holes definitely on board with helping them solve this case. I can connect with resources that could maximize that. Dna so You can look us up. And i will get him in touch with the people that will likely be able to solve that case. That would be a credible. This would be our first case that we have had a small part and helping to solve and that would be just the pinnacle of everything that we've done so far. Yeah and i mean he's not the type of person who's just going to say that willy nilly he's been in law enforcement for nearly three decades and he knows we're going to hold to it so that is going to be a huge thing for this case. But you know kim. Since i i had to paul on the line of course i was going to pick his brain on a variety of topics including his work on the golden state. Killer case just a little bit of background if you don't know. He started out as a forensics expert as a young man in the crime lab in the early nineties as a toxicologist but his goal was always to work side in order to do that though he had to go to the police academy last agency that required their criminalists to be sworn officers. So because i wanted to do the krim listrik side the crime scene investigation and the dna etc. I had to go to the police academy and i get through the police academy. I am assigned to see us i work. I'm assigned to the serology unit and my personal side. I just read a book sexual homicide. That was by dr and burgess john. Douglas bob wrestler from the f. b. is profiling unit and. This is the book that the netflix show mind. Hunter is based on. And i became fast and eight zero predators and this is back in nineteen ninety. Four one thousand nine hundred and nineteen ninety-four let meets you fascinated by that at book. It really was getting inside the mind of these predators these offenders. And you know it's such a unique aspect in human nature where you have the subset mostly ned. Almost ninety nine percent are men who end up developing they sexualize violence and they they have these these violent fantasies that are in some capacity satisfying their sexual urges. And of course. There's there's anger and everything else. That's that's a part of that. And i just became fascinated with that and the fact that they were praying predominantly on women and children. Which of course is like well. This is horrific so now. It's that well that can't happen and then these are interesting individuals. Why do they exist. That combination is really. What kind of galvanized me too. I want to know more about these types of cases and it just so happens at the same time i stumbled across the these old files labeled neo for east area rapist which later became golden state killer and it was like well. I wonder what case this is. It looks like it's a serial predator. Case i just read sexual homicide and now i'm going to be training and forensic dna. Maybe i can solve this unsolved case. And this is a nineteen ninety four and so these data rapist golden state killer case just kind of happened for me and it was the very first cold case and a serial predator case that i got involved with and then of course i got involved in many more time went on and so it just kind of became a snowball effect at that point four million and i ended up promoting up through the ranks. Within the sheriff's office. I became the division commander over forensics a captain level position but at that point in time i was also really focused in on the unsolved cases in my area and was sort of the person that was pursuing these investigative. -ly even though my job wasn't to investigate and then ultimately i ended up being hired by the da's office in their investigative unit tube. The cold case investigator so i- lateraled over to the da's office and did almost the last four four and a half years of my career at the da's office. And that's where i was at when we finally found joseph di angelo and identified him as the golden state killer so a couple of things to kind of pick apart. They're one of the things. Was i feel like this desire to want to know why. Why do mostly men connect this violence with you. They sexualize it. And i feel like that that kind of like human nature piece that we always kind of dive into. And why do they do what they do I think that that's kind of come up with There's a new documentary about the night. Stalker that chemo. Yes yes. I watched it yet. But it's on my list. Yeah and one of the things that people are. Criticizing is that The the went too far told too much but my thing is is. They didn't put anything about his childhood growing up a little bit. But you want to know why like what created this. And it's but i get the thing about you. Don't wanna make this person like the celebrity and this you know you want to focus on the victims and their stories. Yeah you don't wanna give the serial killer all the notoriety credit for all this but at the same time it's like in order to prevent this type of thing from happening in the future. You need to know why it happened in the first place. Yeah i think. I mean i'm so interested in the why because you know why is it. Is it something we're doing in our society to children. Is it something. Environmental is something genetic like what is happening that we're creating serial killers and is there anything we can do to stop it. Yeah so when he was explaining that. It's like yeah. Why do i wanna know this. Well that's why for everything that you just said. So even though paul got involved in the east area rapist case back in one thousand nine hundred ninety four it wasn't like he was obsessed with the case for the next twenty four years Do some work on. And then it would sit. And there is a time. After i had a major role. In linking the northern california east area rapist to the southern california original nightstalkers cases that occurred in march of two thousand and one and after i initially provided everything i could to larry pool down at orange county sheriff's office. I just washed my hands. As like cases in good hands down there they have homicides. And i didn't look at that case for from two thousand one up until about two thousand nine two thousand and ten. I mean almost a decade or. I'm really not doing anything on the case he says it. He veyron two thousand nine though he got back involved with the case. And that's when. I looked back at those old east area rapist files and like that case. Does it solved. And it had been almost a decade since the link between northern and southern california had been made and that's when i started pulling that case back out and from that moment on i was hooked. Twenty four seven three sixty five. I am working thinking about doing something related to the golden state killer case. And what were you thinking. What were you just like. I can't believe that we can't find this guy. Like what was the motivating motivating factor along the motivating factor. I i knew we had his dna so it was a solvable case. It's a matter of finding the guy. And at that point. Now i had gotten into the investigative side much more than when i first started. I was doing the lab work. But that i had worked other cases other cold cases investigated them. It was like okay. I've learned a lot or the last ten years. I'm gonna apply my knowledge. And see if i can't help push this case forward. And that really was what i was thinking. And i'm going to initially was very systematic assessment in terms of the information that i had and then it was also because now i had worked so many cases have studied so much about serial predators. It was like okay. Let me take this knowledge. Basis expertise and apply today versus. You know being the twenty five year old kid who initially ran across those files. He is such a treasure. I know i think about somebody who worked decades in law enforcement solved as many cases as he did retired and he still at it and he still using all of his connections all of his techniques knowledge to to try and work these cases. I mean he's just a treasure for the law enforcement community and the community in general. I'm glad he's still around and still working it. Yeah i think he you know he really is a credit to law enforcement in talking about like you know he wasn't and we're gonna talk a little bit more about what it's like to be obsessed with cases and things like that and y you know it's a natural transition for him to be doing podcast because after you work such a huge case like the golden state killer for so many years you know Especially the last years of it you know. He was super super focused and obsessed but in the middle of that you know. He started with the boots on the ground. Pounding the pavement developing suspects and then there were so many suspects in that case it went. You know this. This guy just wreaked havoc and just tragedy. I mean all over california and connecting them. And i mean if you don't if you haven't had a chance to Do a deep dive into this case. It's so many layers to it. But three years later though he started working with the dna genetic genealogy angle of the case using all of his expertise and kind of like you know he was doing the genealogy himself but then he bumped up his game round two thousand twelve. That's my initial introduction to genealogy and that was with a genealogist by the name of colleen fitzpatrick and there was str's The the y chromosome is something that is passed down on the male side of the family. So genealogists were using the why profile to kind of track paternal lineages and in our society. Surnames are preserved from generation to generation on the male side. As you might be able to find the east air rape a surname by using this y s tr. so from two thousand and twelve on. I was doing that type of genealogy work and it wasn't until two thousand seventeen due to another homicide case. I had a role in. That's when i found out about barbara venter. And she's doing a different type of genealogy through dna adoption dot com was like. I wonder if that type of genealogy could be used to figure out who the golden state killer is and ultimately that proved to be successful. So you know it's cool here is that we talked to see you know. He is ahead of the curve because there was so much going on with the databases. And then there was law. Enforcement's glenn genetic genie. I mean it took a while. Once they had all these results of just being superstar. You know they were solving all these cases. Yeah but the hard thing about that is like on the one hand. Yeah they can solve all these cases left and right but on the other hand. That scientific work that process of looking at the dna is just the first step. There's like a lot of old fashioned thing that then has to go on. Like in the case of susan galvin that we talked with see. See more about. She was murdered at seattle center in the sixties. Her case was just recently solved a few years ago. Thanks to see more. And when we spoke with her she told us about how many hours she spent taking the information from the dna testing to actually identified the suspect and the reason for that is the genetic genealogy often doesn't actually pinpoint a suspect per se but it'll pinpoint a family member but then it's up to the genetic genealogists like to look at those records social media other information to try to identify the actual suspect in the case and in the case of susan galvin. Jed match identified this super distant cousin of the killer so even with that information there still a number of possible suspects in the family and in any case the point. I'm trying to make that. Genetic genealogy is not a magic bullet which i think a lot of people are starting to feel like it is. It's still a really involved process that takes a lot of time to work through so even though there are thousands and thousands of cold cases that might be solved through this technology. The companies that manage that genetic matching databases have to be kind of selective in the crimes that they're willing to try and solve even if they ran every single. Dna sample through their computers. That alone is not going to solve cases there is still that human component that has to come in and do the detail work at the end. Yeah and so. That's basically exactly. What happened with. Joseph james dangelo who was unmasked as the golden state killer. They put in a rape kit from a one of the survivors and got through jed match. And we're able to get to about ten to twenty of his distant relatives and created this huge family tree and and they were able to to narrow it down to you know there was no question that it was joseph. James dangelo who actually was a former police officer. He'd gotten kicked out of the force for just probably being a bad cog. Yeah for sure. And he was arrested in two thousand eighteen and he pled guilty in june. Twenty twenty was sentenced to life in prison. But i talked to paul. Like what is that about to be just obsessed about this case. What is the the drive and and the the downside to that obsession so it was a mom and her four year little girl. They were murdered thirty five years ago in january. I don't i want to solve it immediately. Like i want you guys to do this. Show i wanna get other media eyeballs on. This is a solvable case. There's dna like michelle mcnamara. I'm saying that. I just feel like i don't i don't understand that the how you can continue on with chase or so many years that motivation is it just you. You're personality where you just. You gotta keep calling that threat to keep pulling that. I think it's part my personality. I think it's part and it sounds like you may have experienced. It is when you are invested in the case and you are talking to family you know and i don't know if you've seen what happened to the victims but you know sometimes it's absolutely horrific. These victims went through in the last moments of their life at a certain point. It's what i call that sense of obligation and i know like with golden state killer. Yes there was me wanting to try to figure it out just from a you know a puzzle solving aspect the challenge but as i got to know the victims and really understood what this offender was doing and the impact not only the homicides but also these victims that were left alive you know how traumatized men and women for the rest of their lives. It was okay you know. I have to keep going. There were times when i pushed away even when michelle and i were collaborating several times. I had several suspects during the time. That i knew her that i thought i had the guy and then he's eliminated and it was just like i'm done. You know. I just can't i mean you lose. I was just losing that motivation. I spent before. I met michelle. I spent two years on one guy. I thought he was and i couldn't find him. And after two years finally got his dna and he wasn't the guy this wasted two years of my life and then with michelle. There was a guy that she was. I was telling you. Hey this is what. I got autumn blah blah blah and spent a year before i got his dna and then eliminated him. And i was just like i give you know you get you feel to feed it. I don't imagine to keep going after all of those dead ends. But i think. In the case of nicky and adrian. There's one more factor that's driving you in this case and that is the fact that there is no attention on it so if you were to drop it into stop pursuing it it would be forgotten. I think you know i i. I don't wanna say that. Because i feel like it shouldn't be i just think that there's there's a there's a balance that can happen when you have people that have good intentions and you know. You've got the dejected. Who's got great intentions from what i can see. You got a father who isn't giving up fight and actually feels like a breath of fresh air into him that there are people who actually care because i know in my conversation with him. He was like he felt defeated. He felt like. I can't even imagine what he felt like. Why does nobody care. It's just great to talk into someone. Like paul holes who clearly is so passionate and and it is about for him the victims and of course i was. I had didn't know how he felt when he got the call. Yeah that it was d- angeles being retired. I mean i was relocating my family to colorado and so i was actually out in colorado shopping for a home and had just put a an offer in on the house that currently sitting in right now and then to celebrate my wife and i go out to. Pf changs and that's when the as lieutenant her campbell gives me a call and he tells me over the phone. The serta sample they got from the angelo's car door handle shared at least twenty one markers with golden state killer and he goes. I don't know exactly what that means. He wasn't a dna guy because he goes to the lab. People are are excited and me being a former. Dna analyst was going kirk. It's him twenty-one markers yeah. The fbi's quotas database up to that point. It only built on fifteen marker so this exceeded what had been done up to a few years prior so wants that set in and i went back and sat down at the dinner table. I remember being somewhat numb. And it wasn't like god autumn and hooting and hollering was just like okay. Obviously this is a this is a good spot to be in. But there's also there's a ton of work that has to be done at this point and you're retired i mean. Did you want to run back to california. No i'm calling up your talking to kirk. Then i'm talking to ken clarke. Sheriff's office steve kramer from the fbi. And it's like do. I need to be flying back now and cutting my time out here in colorado short. And they're saying no. We need to get another sample. So i fly back over the weekend during my scheduled flight and then first thing monday morning. I'm up at sack. Homicide basically locked in an office with ken clarke from sack sheriff. And we write the arrest warrant and we're still waiting for the second sample but we knew we had the guy we thought it was just a matter of time of getting the second sample so even though i was retired i was still part of the team. You know it. So that was fries. Did you ever ever feel like you were going to get cut out of it. I mean i would feel really like as a reporter. Somebody was taking my story and i had retired. I mean it's not a bad thing that you would feel territorial over it considering you're twenty four years in there was a fear of that occurring right when i retire but that's one of the things i'm so grateful for the other guys about is. They didn't do that to me. And that's pretty cool. Is that good if happen. It absolutely could have. They would've had all the right in the world to do that to me but they didn't you know and and so that's we had developed a very close bond this task force that we had at that point. It was eight years nine years old and so there is a core of us that we're very tight that had stayed together stayed in constant communication. And one thing. I want to address because a lot of people think you've brought up michelle and i love michelle but this task force and these core group of individuals we were passionately work in this case before michelle was involved and we continue to work the case after she passed away. There's six or seven of us that we were just focused. As i was talking to him. Can i the passion. I mean you're you're talking to someone through a zoom call so it's like your fa- your face to face but you're not like in the same room. Yeah but was coming through was like sheriff. Dave reichert i was just feeling like this is the same animal same hash. Same obsession. sheriff dave reichert. He was the one that was part of a team that ended up catching the green river killer and and he talked about what that was like for him having to go and talk to the scores and scores of victims families when they were notified. That your loved one was murdered by the green river. Killer listen to me to have to go to families homes and so we found your daughter but she's not alive and the emotions that they went through. Were transferred to us. They've to be angry. They pound on her chest they would totally collapse and grab a hold of us and in send us to the floor with them in a brace. That wouldn't let go of us just hanging onto something. And i'm there and just kind of describe i mean we're you. Did you feel like equipped to handle that. I mean that would be really difficult. Assorted christian guy strong faith. So that's where. I drew my eyes strength from and always felt confident and equipped to handle that sort of emotion. The the anger part was a tough one. Because you know they felt like we didn't do enough. We weren't doing enough but once they got to know us and they recognize the dedication and commitment that all the detectives had. It wasn't just me every one of us who stayed there for so many years. Tom jensen jim. Dorian randy moulinex just to name a few though so long that we were not gonna give up. It was just something that i served so very comfortable with but it was a canon say it was difficult it was so. It's so hard to describe. Imagine doing just wants but hey you have brought me there. How many times did you have to go to a family. And say they were a victim of the green river killer scores to ten twenty thirty forty in. How do you keep doing it. How do you keep going and being the one to make those calls or knock on those doors. That just sounds like torture. I and it was something that paul totally understood for one of our first interviews. I interviewed sheriff reichert. Who's the one that was one of many who found the green river killer and mike talking to him for two hours. You know the obsession and the decades and he actually had to go and like him describing going and telling all the scores and scores of familial visits to tell them that their their daughter was a victim. Like i could feel it that kind of obsessive. I mean it worked out for you in the end. But what's that like explaining that your family i mean. What kind of toll does that take your smiling. Because i feel like you're like yeah. Lived it again a couple of things. Yeah i just interviewed sheriff reichert for a project that i can't talk about you know and identified immediately with him and he and i are basically almost one in the same in in terms of how we think. That was coming through to me. As i've been talking to you i'm like you're rarely reminding me that. Passion and just the you know the emotions that he displayed you know talking about his case of green river killer and like you said he is. He is rolling up his sleeves and recovering bodies. He's going. He's talking to next of canned mothers of these girls. Saying your daughter is not coming home and i recognized immediately. The trauma of what he still has to this day. There's a kinship there. You know unless you've experienced it you don't. I don't think you know what it feels like and it is. It's it's it's the obsession of the case but at a certain point it's not the case. It's the victims that becomes the central focus and just like with him. He developed relationships with these families. And now these families want an answer there. And there's an expectation. And i had the same thing. I had victims that had expectations. I reached out. I developed a relationship. And then when you're having to call the victim you know like for me I'm calling saying. I've eliminated another guy. It oh and he could hear the deflation because you know some of these men and women were living in fear that the golden state killer would come back and hurt them again. You know so. That is something that i think. Those of us that have worked these types of cases an annual green river killer is a huge case golden state killers a huge case. You oh the toll of working such a massive case takes for me. It was all consuming for sheriff reichert. It was all consuming and it impacts your life it impacts your relationship your marriage your your relationship with the kids even things that i wanted to do in my life like hobbies well those get shoved aside you know so it does. It takes you over and i know for me. Once i retired of the angelo is in custody. My life changed dramatically. There was just this weird vacant. Feeling of i'm used to waking up every day and doing this case and i don't have that anymore it's like it was just like i'm not sure what to do with myself you know and there's an issue of i need to find something else so i can get that i don't know if you want to call it drennan rush but i need to fill this whole. I think a lot of these guys you know like sheriff reicher have experienced that when you know maybe the case is solved and you get that whole thank god but then it's like what do i do now but at least we're on that site there are guys that have spent as much time just as passionate and other cases where they've retired they've probably died and it was never solved. You're not this is reminding me of is war when soldiers go to war and they come home and they may be glad to be home and not miss being in the battlefield at all but at the same time. There's no scheduled for them anymore right. There's no specific thing they need to be up for. And they're they're missing the of the men and women they were working with you know and i think about different wars like vietnam war. The men came home they had ptsd and yet we didn't even win the war. I was just gonna say like world war two. You know we won the war but there's still a lot of a lot of issues. It's even worse when you don't win. I mean i. I'm not speaking from experience. But i can imagine you know we. We've all seen or many have seen. You know the fourth of july that movie and it's like coming home and your the way that you're treated But i mean imagine spending three decades on something and not having it solved. And you wonder what did i do with my life. You know. I mean it's just it's tough. Yeah at least in this case with the golden state killer with green river killer. They were solved so they have that closure and they have something that can be really proud of That that is a huge accomplishment of not. Just you know your your knowledge and your ability as a detective but also your will your stamina Just your mental strength in general. Yeah i think that You know when. I was talking winding down my interview with participant. We talked about the true crime john genre. It's long been in the crosshairs for sort of lowbrow entertainment that you know glorifies cops and serial killers. I asked him how he felt being apart of true crime. Now going from one side to the other from a detective to a true crime. Podcast Well what do you think about the genre true crime as a reporter i have. I had a hard time getting into it is. It's difficult but then i mean i love being a storyteller. I've loved the idea being in the newsroom. The stories just roll off and then there's another one the next second and you never find out what happened. You never find out in the green river killer like who were these people. What happened to them. I mean i feel like that is such a travesty. Even to this day with the green river killer you never so many victims and they were sex workers. You never you know. They just didn't get there do and they still haven't i think that you don't obviously. I made a career out true cry. I was fascinated with these cases. And i was fortunate to be in a position to be able to have an influence on the cases and to to be able to to help the victims get answers and to see justice done in in some of these cases the genre of true crime. I think you know part of it is. This is something that is just part of human nature the violence that humans do to each other and so of course others are going to be what happened there. I think there's an educational component when you take a look at the true crime fan base it's predominantly women. And you know when. I've talked to women that are fans of all these podcasts and stuff a lot of it is is a empathize because a lot of these true crime cases that are stores are being told. They're women victims. And so they empathize with those women victims and they're also paying attention to what what happened. And how can i avoid that happening to me. i know it's very easy for the storytelling to get off the right tracks to where now it is capitalizing on fortunes. And that's where being victim centric like you bring up. You know with with the The victims of the green river killer. Who were those women. Were their stories. Each one of them have a store. Each one of them have a mother. They have siblings. Many of them probably had kids. They were mothers themselves. And so that's where if the case is being told right and his victim centric and is not glorifying violence or glorifying the offender. then i i'm okay with how that case is being portrayed in order to convey that story in that message out to the people that are that are watching it. The last thing that i want to see is you know like if i go to a true crime. Conference is seeing people dressing up like sub serial killer. And it's like no you know they're not the people that you need to be. Glorified you have to remember what they did is horrific and probably much more so than most of the fans understand. Because they've never seen with these victims went through. You know it's funny that he brings it up. I've i've noticed you know. I mean a lot of chat rooms and facebook groups with true crime fans and there is a certain element that comes to light. Often that is glorifying the killers and that wants to know. I want to know more about the killer. Not why did he do what he did. Or how did he become the way he was but like. I love to know what his favorite food was of women. Did he like those kind of details. Where you're like why. Why are you fascinated by such evil And i don't understand that part of it. Yeah i mean. I i feel the same i mean i feel like i wouldn't want to wear a t shirt that was like gandhi was here picture. Washington ted bundy was here. Yeah yeah like. There's a lot of jeffrey dahmer. Just i know that. There's there's that humor to it. That's not my type of humor. I mean i'm not gonna tell anybody what they can do or not do but for me. That's not you know that kind of makes me cringe. But i like his answer about. I feel like that's very much why we wanted to do the podcast. I mean it still bothers me that the story of the women have has never been told with all the documentaries that are out there and not yet at least not yet talk about another pet project that we have and have been amassing to tell that story in a way that is balanced. And that's what we always try to do in our in our podcast. I mean as somebody who's felt an underdog when i see someone and that's the thing about being a reporter that is such an honor to be able to give someone a voice and to be able to write something that somebody that get. Somebody's attention that. I am so all in on nuts now. You're the one who's crying. Because i just i have a hard time because it's like you know we talk about like we want to see. The case is solved as podcast that we have a vehicle in the platform to do that. And it's it's a complicated stu but if everybody plays their part rights if everybody if this person is open this person you connect this and this will usually apart event paul was saying you know he up himself by himself is never gonna be able to solve a case yes but when he has friends and connections and other investigators the public podcasters and other media working together. Yes that's one of these cases are solved. Yeah four for the victims and their families. Yeah that's the secret sauce that keeps me wanting to do true crime. Not the other stuff with like you know jeffrey dahmer. Just you know is going to have lunch or something. I mean i've seen so many t shirts that are like this idiot is like i can't stand that that part of it the kind of freak show of drew crime but that part with what he's saying and trying to understand i am so all into it but one of the things that i've been really Impressed with paul when you listen to his podcast as somebody who was law enforcement for almost thirty years now he's on the other side of it and it's like his their podcast focuses on unsolved cold cases. And so there's gonna be some criticism of law enforcement in that you know like why are they not salty. Yeah and he doesn't shy away from it but he does it in a way. That's like he meets it head on. And i talked about that because that's one of the things that really impressed me because is reporters you know you need to be balanced and fair but then on the other hand. It's like what's the best way to do that. And there's a delicate balance that. I think people don't always realize that like a lot of the information that you get as a reporter. Investigator comes from. The detectives comes from the police departments. The sheriff's offices. And so if you're going to go out there and attack them and be super-critical they're not gonna wanna talk to you in the future but at the same time you want to be honest right now. People make mistakes even people who are really well trained with the best of intentions can make mistakes. And if you're not honest about that then it's really hard to go back and fix those mistakes and move forward. So paul has found this way. It sounds like of of having that balance of yes. I can be critical. I can point out your mistakes but at the same time you know i respect you and we can continue working and moving forward. Yes as somebody who was in law enforcement. I feel like you do a really good job of kind of staying loyal to the true blue but then also being critical. When you need to be which. I'm sure is is probably a difficult straddle yet just a little bit Now it's over. The course almost three decades working with odd forcement at. It's it's one of those things where i don't have a problem if i see bad stuff happening calling guys out on it you know. That's not difficult really Of course when you start getting into these broad brush strokes that law enforcement is doing bad things you know. Especially after the george floyd stuff. That's where that it gets tough for me because that's not the case and it's so hard to publicly talk about that without the backlash of supporting log forcement after that type of advantage occurs but yet no. I think finding that balance is important. Law enforcement needs to be held accountable for things that they don't do. Well there's are. There are guys that do criminal things while wearing a badge. Golden state killer was doing matt right. Yeah perfect example. What about your motivation. What motivates you when you true crime. I think it's the optimist in me. Believe it or not weird way. I feel like there is a chance to understand. Why people do what they do and and why they became killers or why they lifetime criminals. What happened to them. Like i don't think this is a normal state for human beings to constantly take advantage or be violent against one another. I don't think that's quote unquote normal. So my motivation is if there's ever a way to figure out why this happened how this happened. Then maybe we can stop it from happening in the future. And i know that's just like a huge grab and and it's not something that i personally probably ever going to be able to accomplish but i think it takes all of us thinking about it looking at it considering it working together to ever accomplish something like that such a huge goal and like when you were when you were growing up what made you want to become a reporter. I never actually set out to be a reporter. I'm an audio file. I love storytelling in spoken. Word it's not true crime necessarily. it's the stories. It's people stories about what happened in their lives. That not only tells us about the killers. Why did they become the way they became but also tells you about people in general like you never know when you come across somebody if they might have been a victim of some horrific crime and perhaps the way that they're behaving the things that they're doing are not a reflection on who they are necessarily but are a reflection of what they've been through so it helps to understand other people in general even if they're not killers just people everyday people. You don't know what they've been through. And when you hear these stories and then you hear how they've come out the other side and gone on to do normal things or even fantastic things after horrific crimes you can look at people in the world a different way of like you don't know what they've been through so maybe let's reserve judgment and give people the benefit of the doubt and that's so like not happening in our society right now i mean it's it's it feels like it's worse than it's ever been like you don't wanna know what happened. You don't wanna know those the facts that go behind why this person did what they did and then if you go a level deeper it's like well does it even matter. I mean if they had a rotten childhood then turned into a serial killer. I don't care what your childhood was like. You don't kill people. Yeah you know or the other side of the coin. If you're a victim in something terrible happened to you that doesn't mean you then get to go and victimize everybody else and say well. You know it's because this thing happened earlier in my life. So i think it's also understanding how people can overcome these things and yeah i mean there's just so many it's the human nature of it all then that really fascinates me. Yeah and that that goes back to the storytelling. How does a person survive. And then in many cases thrive they and then the other person that just stops them in their tracks and they can never move forward again because it was so traumatic and understanding. Anyway we're we're giving yourself the strength. I mean you can find strength these stories to say they can get through it. I can get through this difficult thing that i'm dealing with as well. Yeah good point
Elections, elections and more elections this week
"Welcome to friday. Welcome to week in review. We've got so much to talk about with my super friends political analyst with q thirteen cr. Douglas welcome back cr. Thank you hosted the seattle city clubs civic cocktail. Welcome back johnny baltar. We've got kiro seven reporter essex reporter essex porter can you hear me essex. Yes i can hear you glad to be here very good all of you here and of course you can watch us live on facebook or youtube. Let's start with what's at stake in all those changes. What's at stake for washington state. yesterday. I asked seattle's mayor jenny. Durkan what does it matter to our city whether biden or trump is president until twenty twenty four and she said that a biden administration would mean more federal tax dollars here. We're not hearing mayor durkan. But she said that that a biden administration would light in washington. Dc to get the money in tax dollars that are ours will actually have a partner in dc trying to help us so to recap dirk said we could get funding for example for the west. Seattle bridge is more likely under a biden administration and as you heard her there That would be important rather than having to fight. Dc to get the money in tax dollars. She said we'd have a partner in dc essex porter. Do you agree with the mayor. And is there anything else you want to say about what is at stake. Trump versus biden for washington state. Yes i agree with the mayor about the tax money and the other thing perhaps even bigger is that seattle and in this portion of washington state especially would not feel so much under siege from the federal government in a biden administration. Know we've had to In this city and in this county king county Had to file lawsuits protecting ourselves from having federal money taken away because of sanctuary city policies or other ways that Washington state this portion of washington state anyway is in conflict with the federal government. Environmental regulations immigration The daca a situation all those things affected by the trump administration. They felt like it felt like almost half the things they did in washington. Dc seemed aimed directly opposed to what goes on here in washington state and especially here in western washington so that feeling of being under siege will lift. Should uh joe biden become president. Joni baltar your thoughts on what's at stake for washington state in this presidential election. Well can i just say first of all. That is not bubble over my head for weeks. Months really says please turn off the crazy. So if if biden wins were certainly still not certain what it means is Turn off the lying. The attacks from the top on our democracy here in our state as essex was saying just this whole feeling of tension between our governor and the president when we're dealing with corona virus. My gosh. we need cooperation. We can't have you know the president and the governor sort of sparring over how we're going to deal with something. This deadly in this frightening The the whole idea that the city was dubbed the anarchist city And with all this we were we. Were having a rough time this summer. We can all agree on that. And you'd hope that your president would be supportive rather than using you as a sort of a political foil so all of that really made it made. It just made our situation here in seattle worse and so if biden does win. I think folks in seattle washington state in general are gonna be glad that we're sort of. We're going to deal with somebody who is not angry at us. It's such a different feeling. Doesn't want to take our federal funds. Although that thread about the federal funds have read something in atlantic magazine that said There are hardly any city. Funding programs at the white house has the power to cut. So that was that was a lot more marketing than it was legal. Sierra douglas. well. I think tax policy is one of the biggest differences between a biden administration or trump administration. Going going forward. Obviously biden wants to raise business taxes. he wants to raise taxes on top earners. So you know depending on where you fit there in washington. He wants to raise capital gains taxes. That'll probably Affect more people than just high earners. biden's talked about relieving student. Loan debt for anyone making under hundred twenty five thousand dollars that would probably affects a lot of washington's obviously he would keep obamacare Trump would would would try to return that if if if he's reelected very likely and so those are some examples of really down on the ground differences between the two The two administrations before we leave the presidential election the kyw's been asking local voters how they're holding up and this bothell residents having a rough time. I'm really stressed out about what's going on right now. I'm checking my phone every few minutes trying to see if any of the like electoral points have been updated so just stressed out and trying to calm my nerves because nothing comes nerves like checking your phone every few minutes to see. If the electoral points have been updated. And i totally relate to that how are you all doing before we move from From trump biden your vets are you. Are you stressed. Are you sort of excited. Because you're in your element. Well i'd like to say that you know. I think that this my notion of turn off the crazy if joe biden prevails. I think we all look forward. I would be really excited about being more than a little less riled up all the time and can i just add this one quote before we leave this topic From stephen colbert. I am a native of pennsylvania. And i still agree with this. He said the human body was not made to expend this much energy thinking about pennsylvania about two phones and checking all the time my job to check the phones at admit. I'm enjoying my job as especially these days but on a more serious note i i do want to remind all of us that you know. Roughly forty percent of the people in washington state supported donald trump. So while you know we sit in. Seattle and seattle has a lot of issues. The trump administration there are other places in the state that are would be happier if trump won and continued some of his policies. So we shouldn't lose sight of that absolutely. We're gonna talk a little bit more about that. Well i i there there's there's two sides of adrenaline right. I mean it's fine covering the election because there's a lot of adrenaline but there's also adrenaline Just covering a really close contested elections would say both reactions now. President trump's been making these unfounded claims that mail in balloting is rigged even though some states including ours have been voting this way for years the person who oversees washington elections is our secretary of state. Kim wyman who just got reelected she told king five last night that trump is trying to undermine democracy at its core that out of more than four million votes cast across washington. She's investigating three cases of potential voter fraud. All the votes to be counted nationwide. She said and she said that. Washington state elections are transparent. You can see how we process ballots. How we count them how we reconcile but when you start showing the public that level of detail it makes all of the allegations of voter fraud in particular but also voter suppression kind of melt away because people realize You know really what went into making that election fair now. Compared to other states we do have a long voting period. We don't finalize our results until three weeks after election day. The secretary of state. Kim wyman said after this election it might be time for nationwide standards for win to process mail in ballots. We had some standardisation on when reports were released. I think that that just helps. Add the credibility because right. Now what's happening. I'm sure we'll see it in. The courts is a lawyer representing a candidate. You're going to start chipping away at the differences between states. So do any of you on my panel. Think that washington state will be a model for new nationwide election standards or does. Nobody thinks that's going to happen. I i actually do think we could be the model but we have to make one change and that is You know we should. We should give up this notion. That ballots can be postmarked on election day and may and maybe join other states and say that ballots should be received by for whatever reason and we know here that we're we're we really do a very good job here on mail voting. We've been added for years but for whatever reason there is this fear of fraud for anything that lands after a day. It's not even logical necessary necessarily but it's something that people think. And i think if we could get to national standards on this we would all agree the bouts either have to be you know a received by election day or postmark which is our law. But i think it's better to have them received so then the deadline for those that deadline than would be before the quote unquote day. Anybody want to react to that. And the question of whether you agree with jani on this I think it's it's a good thing to be able to vote until the last minute. And we're really an outlier there. I mean a lot of states. Ohio illinois utah north carolina california. I mean over. A dozen states allow ballots to to come in after election day as long as are postmarked. So it's it's not that unusual. It does give people the benefit of waiting for you know every last piece of information and i also think it's it's it's actually cleaner on the front side. It's it's it's not as planned. The backside is balanced or trickling in but it's cleaner on the front side. Because if if if they had to be in by election day you don't really know when to put it in the mayo and you're dependent on the post office. You put it in some putin saturday. And it'll ride by tuesday but some places you might have been in thursday or even earlier in that week if all you have to do is have postmarked by election day. That's what they clean deadline for everyone instead of having to like backed time what you think. The postal delivery scheduled look at how many people want to vote early. They were happy to go out and vote earlier and earlier than they ever have before. So i don't think it's that heavy of a lift. Essex porter tend to lean with cr on this. i don't think washington state voters are giving up the right to vote At the very last minute so we're not going to get a national standard that way and remember some a lot of the state election standards and other states. Even you know whether it's red state or blue state. A lot of those standards are or have been designed to keep people from voting. It's it's very difficult to vote in new york state. Just just check your twitter feed from there you know. It's it's very difficult to in a lot of other states. So it's i think. I don't think we're going to have a national standard for voting because too many states are going to have to give up too much and the folks and oregon are certainly not going to give up the idea of having all the ballots in house by eight pm on election day the same way that people in washington are not likely to give up the idea of able to have your ballot postmarked on election day and still have a couple of weeks to arrive and still be counted. One more thing. I just quickly add. Bill is that it's very difficult to make national standards with our constitution. I mean the constitution gives states wide wide power to conduct elections. So you could probably do some carrots and say if you adopt the standard that were that were suggesting you'd get more federal money here and there or something like that. But i mean generally states are allowed to go different ways depending on how they see fit and how their population wants it so. That's a tough. That's a tough hurdle to to cross. Sounds like we need to a national election on this question and every tabulate those balanced differently. Yeah it'd be too easy for the russians to hack it. Yeah right we're going to move into just a washington state and seattle king county in a moment before we do that. S up oregon. I just want to ask you because they're our neighbors. Western neighbours cast a couple of votes. That you know could be repeated here. Oregon voted to decriminalize possession of small amounts of drugs including heroin cocaine and meth. It wasn't close fifty nine percent to forty one percent. Essex will washington state seriously consider doing the same washington state is already seriously considering doing the same thing even before election day. There is a coalition. That's trying to pass what they call the treatment and recovery act in the legislature not as an initiative and the reason they say that is because of covid initiative signatures. But they clearly believe that oregon's would pass and the day after the election. They were already with their own news. Conference to promote this idea to address. Washington's growing substance use disorder crisis expanding drug treatment and recovery services shifting away from criminalising substance. Abuse you know instead You know for personal use you get a ticket a traffic ticket and then the opportunity to Get treatment and counseling. there'd be a little bit of pressure. You wouldn't have to pay that ticket if you if you did but but You know if you didn't you would And then the money would be used for treatment funds now. There's is a lot of criticism of this idea. Feeling that It goes to easy on people. it's not an effect coercive enough for people who might be on the edge of the signing to get treatment. But you know if there's no real punishment nothing negative connected to your your arrest or your ticket. Then you'll you'll put it aside cr decriminalizing these these so-called harder drugs Oregon also legalized silla sivan in mushrooms. And i'll go to joni next. Do you think Which of these do you think will happen in washington state. Well you know there. Is this history that progressive ideas. Get a toehold somewhere in the west coast. They they usually travel up and down so My marijuana legalizations across the country this week. Yep yes my guess is the you know the the decriminalization of the small the small possession would probably have a better chance by you know. This is our federal systems speaking of federal system. I mean you know. Organised had a huge opioid problem. More than most places and they're frustrated preference act and you know this is. This is when states. Get to experiment with different things. We'll see what happens down. There i mean does drug use. Go down does it. Free up the criminal justice system You know are more people getting off drugs because of this. I mean if it works. And it's shown to work in some european countries but if it works it'll it'll spread. I would think joni thoughts on oregon and washington state experimenting with drugs so to speak like i could definitely see this coming up here in being successful here. If you think about our history we were the first state along with co colorado to legalize recreational marijuana and remember the voting on. That wasn't just a bunch of liberals. Voting on it libertarian in eastern washington also voted for that and the big deal about that seem to be that it wasn't a big deal. That's sort of how it went. It was kind of quiet. Everybody kept waiting for something to happen. And not that much happen. And i do think if you think about These kinds of laws changing to become sort of more treatment more about treatment and less about Punishing people these laws have been unfairly applied to have color. And you know sort of having ended up end up having a negative impact on usage. If there's a better way at treatment way I could see our voters here. And actually puget sound area and across the state being open minded. Something like what one quick thing. Bill on this libertarian I agree with johnny that. Libertarians have found a way to like pot legalization to so have so. Have those interested in revenue. One reason this has spread to blue states red states is that pot. Legalization is a is a cash cow. I mean washington got four hundred million dollars in revenue from pot sales last year alone so so lots of states which are having budget. Problems are looking to legalization. Not just an answer to the drug problem but an answer to their budget problems. Four hundred million years. We should be very clear. You know what we're talking about here in decriminalizing. Some of these other drugs is not trying to you. Know get tax revenues from heroin. We're not trying to legalize it. We are decriminalizing not putting people necessarily in jail for us but instead trying to connect them with the help they need to deal with their substance. use disorder. yes absolutely. It's the pot where where where they've been collecting revenue and also. I'll just point out rather wonkery there that some of the revenues that they promised in many states around the country they didn't realize those for many years and it was kinda like that's how they were trying to sell it in some ways but that was they were way off. They were wait. Yeah just did you say four hundred million in marijuana revenue or or tax not tax revenue. Absolute predictive hundred million tax revenue. Wow not okay and finally before again before we move home. Move back home san francisco. Voters overwhelmingly approved taxing companies whose top executive earns one hundred times more than their average worker. Even more of a surcharge if the ceo makes two hundred times more than the average employee. Does anyone think that will happen in seattle. I could totally see our city council going for something like that. They've been trying to get at this for a long time and they're going to run into some legal things but there is merit. I mean the idea is that these largely tech c. e. o. Salaries are just crazy. Compared to what you know the average worker makes yet such a lie has legal. Troubles in washington. State are supreme court has ruled a couple of times that we don't allow non uniform. What are called property taxes but end up being these salaries. Oh so even. If it's not an income tax it would run afoul of this uniform. Property tax required interesting. Yes i think it sounds better than it is because in terms of what this would do to like a seattle budget for instance. I mean obviously amazon. This huge huge employer where you'd love to get a piece of their revenues. Actually they already did adams on tax. The does that to some extent. But when you're to see you. Jeff bezos makes eighty thousand dollars a year probably less than the median amazon employees. So this idea that you're gonna find a lot of companies in seattle certainly not the biggest but even any companies were. There's a three hundred percent three hundred times not percent but three hundred times disparity between the ceo and the average median. You're not gonna find that. Many companies seattle actually has a history of pretty modest. Ceo pay compared to a lot of places you have to wonder how they're defining pay there in that san francisco initiative because certainly jeff basil's the salary wouldn't qualify him for that now you know his his income his net worth might but that's different from somebody's seller. Jeff bezos has always calling air. They do add. Stock-based compensation To to that calculus in san francisco but he receive stock receive stock stock options as has never has never received them calculated as soon as they put something like that in he can then make his actual residence any one of his other. I don't know how many houses right right. Okay seattle anyway right. I think it's i think it has to do with. It's not it's not a tax on him. It's using him as a metric for the companies would calculate the company's tax which is based in seattle. So again i think it's i don't think it would even qualify with those. He doesn't make three hundred times. The median the meeting employ hundred san francisco. He makes it a different way Cr douglas is political analyst. Q thirteen johnny baltar host of seattle city clubs. Civic cocktail essex. Porter is cairo seven reporter and they specialize in this stuff. This is what they do among other things. We're breaking down the elections for you. Of course we'll We'll let you know if there is breaking news on the presidential level but we are going to to move into local elections and What about our state. Legislature are members of congress from washington state. When we return to the week in review off. I appreciate you listening to week in review. If you are one of those people saying. I just not having enough screen time. I want to i want to see essex porter joni baltar and cr douglas and if i must i will even see bill radke. You can do that by going to either facebook or youtube. You'll find a by searching. Koa w public radio and we are rolling on with the week in review. We discussed a lot of national situations. And and how we do our mail in balloting here compared to other parts of the country we want to talk about our local governor election here which was not a nail biter. Jay inslee leads with fifty seven percent of the vote. The republican lauren cult has not yet conceded which he doesn't have to do. The state hasn't finalized the election yet. But culp did not just say. Let's be patient till all votes are officially counted. He said he was approaching the ballot counting as if he were at war The warrior mindset. Fight like your life depends on it right. Never give up. Never vian fight to the bitter end. No prisoners right. That's the mindset. Take no prisoners now wore metaphor to be fair war metaphors common from politicians in both parties. my guests do you think are culp and trump supporters actually taking up arms in washington state. I haven't heard about it. But do we see this. all this. The violence and unrest. We worried about. How's it playing out so far so far in washington state. now. I haven't seen Anything you know. Especially of violent. I i know sometimes there some some clashes. We reported on kiro seven. Sometimes it's a you know someone To the left that might initiate a clash with the someone on the right or the other way around but in in in very small groups What i've seen in terms of mass gatherings especially colt and trump supporters have been pretty happy events in the last week Cope did have a very big rally election night rally and tonight no. I didn't see a lot of mask use there but people were quite happy. The trump folks had quite a bit caravan In the south sound Over the weekend You know it was beautiful weather over the weekend. A lot of flags lot of people driving on the freeway but nothing that would be called violent. Now these are some folks who very much Support second amendment rights and one of the ways. They advanced doesn't support. That is to wear their weapons openly. This is an open carry state so that's legal but of course you know open weapons make a lot of other people nervous But i haven't seen any sort of violence connected to The campaign and i think we were lucky that we didn't see any of this at at at polling you know locations if you were dropping off mail ballots or something like that. We didn't really have any sense that you know there was intimidation of any kind here during you know when ballots were being tabulated. You know that happened down in arizona while there is some harassment of the folks that were counting of ballots copa county. And we didn't see that here. Yeah we haven't seen match around the country. I mean thankfully And i would be very surprised if we saw any of it here. You know where that's most likely is where you have. These razor thing counts you know like like in your pennsylvania's georgia's where everyone's on edge about literally the very last ballot. And you know we have seen some protests there on both sides and in some of those places that in washington when you have a sixty forty governor's race you know i mean lauren. Coke can talk about about never giving up and being a wired till the end but there's nothing there's no where do you shoot. There's no there's no place to target. There's no there's no close vote counting precinct. There's there's no nothing it's it's it's just it's it's you know it's a white flag really what i'm more concerned about. As learned copes language show similar to donald trump's language sort of undermining the institution of the election you'll cope has been talking about irregularities that his team is trying to investigate and maybe sixteen hundred ballots or something like that somewhere. No evidence at all undermining our trust in the outcome of the election and the election system a lot of very honest very hard. Working people in every single county have been helping to count votes. The secretary of state here is a republican fraud in our elections is miniscule over millions and millions of ballots and to undermine that frankly does for more violence than any of them by little bits of violence or conflict that we have seen in this election. Well it is kind of scripted. He's borrowing from donald trump. And it's also i mean he'd have to find a lot of your regularities to have to a prayer in this and it's just it's kinda to me. It's kind of silly. He knows the races over. He's he knows he's not gonna find that many irregularities of and he can go on the history of the state we don't have that. Many irregularities are in of voter fraud very low so seems kind of weird to me to keep doing it. But go i mean one of the hallmarks of our mail and system is that it has huge bipartisan support. I mean this thing was actually champions and implemented by republican secretaries of state And and embraced by both parties. Lauren culpas the only person. I've heard say anything about this. You don't see rob mckenna. Or dave reichert or some of the other kind of elder statesman of the republican party. Or frankly any you know leaders and olympia on the republican party. I mean no one else is following his lead. As far as i can tell and it will be soon ignored. Let's acknowledge the. I would think it would be frustrating to be a republican in washington state. The fact that inslee has won a third consecutive term irritates this culp supporter in mason county. I don't like the fact that ends has been elected to a third term. I think term limits are good and He's already served two terms and the two terms are good enough for the president. Well then it should be good enough for governors to as we pointed out here lauren cole. And donald trump each got about a million and a half votes in washington state about forty percents each but republicans have almost zero representation in statewide office. Do any of you see any signs of our state. Accommodating minority republicans more than we are now. Well i actually think it has to do with the kind of republicans that have been running a little bit lately. I think our state is very open. The fact that the fact that our state said that they would retain kim wyman When when a lot of us thought a big blue tied this wasn't that big of a blue tide would wipe her out. Despite the fact that in my view she was more qualified candidate and so it it really does have to do with flavor of republican that we are going to be voting upon it and the mainstream moderate republicans sat out the governor's race because they didn't want to run with donald trump. It was too risky especially the way we do elections here. Because of the governor's run on the same cycle as the president. So i think that the gop. We'll find a place here when they get behind candidates who can win in the puget sound suburbs and with independence the pendulum will will will will swing back at some point. Maybe not all the way. I mean we certainly are moving blue. And in some ways that's reversible but listen you know i i feel for the minority. You know. they're they're they're they're in a tough place if you're if you're republican in washington and you know you're in a tough place of your democrat and mississippi i mean those very very extreme states Bake hard it. It just seems to me that that. What a republican candidate should do and this is maybe another way of just same. Joni says you you the way you deal with that. Is you steal some democratic issues. I mean the the take what is popular and adopt it or at least. Don't oppose it to win this back. Just you just figure out a way to make inroads into into democratic issues. You don't have to be permanently satisfied with the minority race result that it's not saying much that it surprised me because you are the election reporter veterans more than i am but the statewide support was something wasn't it like sixty percent You can tell me for this. This comprehensive sexual health education from k. To twelve washington came out and backed that referendum. Pretty solidly essex. Were you also surprised at that. Level of support a statewide. I was absolutely surprised about sex. Sex education is can be so very controversial. There can be so many folks especially on the conservative side who are vehemently opposed to any kind of mandate on that. And i remember a really big rally at the capital in olympia when that law was passed. it was conservatives who put it cultural conservatives who put it on the ballot and then wanted to folks to vote against it. I was surprised that it got sixty percent. Because you know that means a lot of conservatives also voted for it and So yeah that was quite a surprising. How one maybe exceeds and surprise a little bit. Though i agree it was a. It was a bigger margin than i expected but people people i think realized certainly if you have kids. I don't know why parents who have kids that this is already going on. It's not like we went from zero to sixty with this with this initiative passing in. I'm using the car. Metaphor and the percentage vote metaphor. I mean sex. Ed is now happening in ninety. Three percent of the district's in in in washington basically almost all kids are getting it. It some degree another. This would certainly make it more comprehensive with expand. You know all the way down to k and and and make it more standardized curriculum. But but it's it's not a completely new thing to parents. So so i guess i'm not. I'm not as surprised if you think about that. Those terms of it. Yes we got a new lieutenant governor which might matter more than ever which isn't saying very much for our lieutenant governor. Sorry lieutenant governor but who went joan. You want to describe what happened in this in this election campaign and why it does matter okay. So here's why it matters first of all. We had to democrats running for this. And one was Congressman denny heck in the other was state senator mark mark leah's and so it really was kind of an interesting race just because it's too democrats. Were one of few states in the country. That does that but more interesting. Is this a discussion about whether if biden wins and if jay inslee has offered like some really hot job as climate czar or something climate that he might be too tempted he he governor inslee might be too tempted and would go to dc for that job. And that would open. Lieutenant governor would instantly become governor. Not for very long to be clear here because it's only until the next general election if it occurs the first two years and so who is denny. Heck and we. He's known around here. He certainly been and olympia Earlier in his career was in business he founded. Tv w. he's the moderate in the in the race and Very sort of congress is done the economy and so He would be interesting in that position. He would be qualified very much. So for that for that position. I think one thing just quickly about that lieutenant governor. You know we had joshua free. The republican who ran for governor lost. Then he pivoted quickly to this to this race. A write in candidate late obviously wasn't didn't it was only two democrats in the primary but he's getting six hundred and fifty thousand votes as a write in candidate. I mean he won't. You won't win of course but that's pretty remarkable. I mean you know there's something there's something there with him. He's a moderate and you know speaking of the future of republicans. I mean josh afraid has some kind of future given that showing the right and you know you're not on the tampa if you're writing candidate you're not in a video. Voters guide your nowhere. You gotta get six hundred fifty thousand people ryan your name or you did. That's he's got traction. Let's talk about our congressional delegation and our state legislature. What what happened to the makeup of either of those legislative bodies from washington well starting with the a congressional races basically. We stayed the same so we had seven members of congress who are democrats and three republicans in. It's going to stay just that way at one of the interesting racist to me. Is the third district where republican jaime herrera butler held on. I mean here's what's interesting about her. She is the last republican representing congressional district that borders the pacific ocean this is obscure but in the lower forty eight. But that's something you know. She must be doing something right for the people of southwest washington. She keeps winning you. Also they'll yes about the state legislature to. yes are. Yeah yes yes yes. I'll just say a couple things about that That you know the democrats padded their already significant majorities in in both the house and in the senate and that back could make a big difference especially in the senate where some of the stuff even though even democrats have been controlled some insight agenda has been blocked so things like clean fuel standards you know maybe a carbon tax capital gains tax. I think those things have never had had more of a chance Given given the new the new people being elected to the to the state senate especially and before we leave congress. We also had Kim schreier being reelected in the eighth. And we had an open seat Marilyn strickland joining congress essex anything you want to add to st ledge or a congressional delegation it. One thing that surprised me. Kim schreier one more handling than i thought she might. She was below fifty percent in the primary that usually a warning sign but she was strong on election night and hasn't really lost much ground since then So that was a bit of a surprise to me. Marilyn strickland is is a history maker. She will be the first african american member of congress from the pacific northwest and the first korean-american ever from anywhere to be elected to congress So she makes history You know for for those of you who don't now. She's a On the moderate side of Democrats a for mayor of tacoma of former executive of the greater seattle chamber of commerce She goes. She goes off to congress. Now what's what's striking me. In the state legislative races four black women and there was a focus on trying to elect black women. This time for black women are either slightly ahead in their races or slightly behind the racist. all them contenders based on what we see in the next couple of days to be elected to the to the state house and that would also be quite an accomplishment To have that kind of additional diversity in the washington state legislature. No matter what party it comes from and are you being a trend here in some of these congressional races and statewide races. This was not a great election for the overly woke. I the moderates were doing much better than the the more lefty candidates. Just i just have one thing to add on the on the congressional races in that kim schreier seat the eighth you know. It's a pretty significant reelection. I mean that's a that's was a district long held by republicans. She flipped at two years ago in the midterms. And whenever some of this first elected to congress you never know. If it's a fluke you know was something just about that year or kind of you know her opponent or her You know can can they can. They can align the stars the second time and when you re elected to congress that's that's a huge lamb mark. You suddenly are real you. The power incumbency really starts to kick in the mrs for both parties doesn't matter here and you start getting a real entrenched kind of advantage. So kim schreier is going to be tougher to pick off you know in the future now but she won this key. I i re election. And they'll probably redistricting They will redistricting. And that and i think that a district probably comes back across the mountains soda even be more favorable to her. Oh interesting okay. We'll look for that in seattle and king county seattle. Voters passed a transit funding Sales tax king county voters decided. They want their sheriff to be appointed by the county executive as it used to be instead of elected by the people opponents. Say that having an appointed. Sheriff is a bad idea. King county council member. Kathy lambert says a sheriff who has to answer to the county executive and council is sheriff. Who caught up in politics. As she thinks seattle's police chief was with the protests around east precinct. What happened to carmen. Best when things became political and that was not good for the department at its opening showing not to be good for the city of seattle. Lambert says city politics is why so. Many police officers are leaving seattle. Who has thoughts about. Why king county. Voters went to an appointed sheriff and any thoughts on the criticisms of that. Move while they did it. Because they're schizophrenic. I mean listen. This was originally an elected office. One hundred years ago when when this all got started and then it became an appointed office. I think in the sixties and then. We turned into an elected office in the nineties. And now we're back to pointed office so this is the fourth pivot and whether this this solves whatever problems people think who knows. I think there are strong arguments on both sides. You you heard you heard kathy lambert there you know. The argument on the other side is in terms of public safety. It's kinda hard to know who is accountable when you have that kind of hybrid system because you haven't elected sheriff and yet the county council on the executives create the budgets and they draw policies up. I mean it's it's not a true obvious like person to blame a person to give credit for when it comes to public safety. So so that's the argument for bringing it all under one roof and the county executive hires and fires and people just just weighing on public safety with their candy executive vote every four years. It's sort of the the good news and bad news. Seattle and king county voters. They love anything that seems like it's good government they don't necessarily Can't really articulate. Sometimes it seems like it would be better government than it is and to me. It's not gonna be that big of a difference it now that it's this way it's not gonna change that much You know sometimes we just go for these to see if if government could be better. Things could work more smoothly. That's what it feels like that kind of an impulse to me. And i think there's also you know some sort of some kind of satisfaction at the root of this you know both charter amendments on pointing the sheriff and also allowing the county council county executive have much greater say in the policies and duties of the sheriff's office. Both of those past very handily and clearly. There's some dissatisfaction there among among people who saw an opportunity to change and took that opportunity. People wanna see change. It's not just that they're fickle that needs to be fixed and to be clear. Yeah the these laws. Were really pushing this. These were you know You know the activists in in in in large measure were pushing these changes feeling like you know especially after the protests this the summer that that that this is a better way to to to do things bring it all in house under under the county executive. Does anyone think governor inslee or county executive constantina other county executives titan covid restrictions after this now that the election is done. Constantine was up but the governor election to deal with and some people speculated sooner clear for reelected we go we go quote unquote backwards when it comes to covid restrictions possible theory but you know. The governor ran on the fact that he imposed cova restrictions in the first place. He pushed the idea of using science to to fight it and he always pointed out learn culpa was standing against science so people had a chance to vote on giving the governor the a the idea the ability to impose more restrictions if he felt that the science call for it and they said yes by almost sixty percent. So you know we probably. I'm guessing here more than knowing. But i suspect we're going to get more restrictions because the number of kobe cases is rising dramatically even in the last few days so the science is probably going to support more restrictions. Absolutely agree with essex on this because really what's been going on is what we were told for a long time that the fall would be tricky the fall would be troublesome and the numbers are exactly as you said they're just going up and so i don't think james is just going to say well i really don't want to do much about it. I mean that that's not what the voters said. They said we trust you. We trust the way you've handled so far and we. We are open many poles not the poses a good word these days but many polls showed that people felt they needed to be behaving safely and so i think if there was some kind of a new mini shutdown of some sort as long as it was thoughtful and science based it. Probably it probably won't will occur in people will probably be okay with it. Yeah i largely think. That's that's right. That is that he will probably you know. Add some new restrictions. Listen that's been this behavior right when he's when he's seen spikes he's wind to flatten the curve. He imposes a restriction and then and then when he wants to plant in the curb again the imposes a restriction. So i i see his behavior as as as you know. Be unlikely to to to not be doing that again. Given that we're seeing huge spikes i'm gonna say the press conference This week he did hint that he had some other You know tools in the kit that we're not mandates that he was going to to to put into place to now. I don't know if that means you know a more aggressive testing regimen or maybe a public service campaign or or real strong behavioral recommendations not mandates. Mandates are coming down but he. He did suggest that he had some other. Non mandate ideas that he was going to to to unfurl finally on that there were eleven governors. I checked across Up for reelection across the country and none of them were turned out of office so weather people people did not as far as we could tell. Punish their governors for either being too restrictive or not restrictive enough when it comes to cova as you were saying earlier. there's always a million other issues at stake. And who was the opponent all of that but let we need to pause right now and just leave enough time to come back and tell us what is making us. I'm going to say it happy this week. When we return to the week in review. We'll wrap it up okay. Our last two and a half minutes. I'll start. We don't have a lot of normalcy this year. Husky football season opener. This saturday has cancelled after cal player. Tested positive for cova other players may be exposed. So i'll end on something. That is normal every year pandemic or not election or not the new starbucks holiday cups come out. Christians are disappointed that there's no jesus on the cops others find the designed to abstract or two ugly. Will the new cups are out there. It's a very safe play. There's and snowflake shapes the cups. Do say carry the mary but sorry christians. It's not spelled m. a. r. y. And yet even if you don't like the outcome no one's waving a gun about it. No one's making unfounded claims of fraud. Coffee fraud at least yet. So it's a normal corporate christmas in november so far. What's making you happy well. Speaking of november Something that makes me smile as that. Oh my neighbors. We didn't really have a conversation about this but everybody just started putting lights really early like like christmas lights or cafe lights to brighten the dark evenings. And why why. I smile at that is we all came to the same conclusion. Sort of organically so. It does brighten things a real quickly. Bill finally subscribe to a music streaming service amazon music. And i've created some place. One of which is my dance playlist. And so whenever i need a little. Pick me up. And i needed a few this week just because no sleep i turn on that dance playlist and you know before you know not doing the electric slide on my hardwood floors essex porter yan dancing star actually exist. We wanna see the video. I want you more fraud. Claims essex anything leave within a few seconds make you be happy to return to my favorite tv show star trek discovery. No spoilers please. Because i can't watch the latest episode until we get a winner in the presidential race i right. I wouldn't do that to you. Essex porter cairo. Seven reporter cr. Douglas political analyst q thirteen. Johnny baltar hosts civic cocktail on seattle city club and our producer of the show is sara lee. But it's our live livestream online. You could see these folks Thanks to one it and teo pesky. I'm bill radke. Hey thanks a lot. I really enjoy this time together. Appreciate it could be here. Let's do it soon and tune in on monday for the record and we'll do week in review a week from today. Now you can hear the kahlo news stories. You wanted nineteen vaccine protests against whatever you want black tech workers specific you will w newsroom northwest west ballet dancers on ceo. Jeff bezos selections are under the microscope. Pick skip or save the stories. You care about on demand. Students online with the k. You'll w newsroom podcasts. Seattle restaurants are required. Stay up to date with easy access to trust in depth reporting from our award. Winning journalist less jones k. You are to austin. Jackson w joshua mcnichols q. Wbz w. dot org or search k. u. o. w. newsroom on your podcasting app.
November 5, 2018: Hour 2
"This message comes from here. And now sponsor indeed if you're hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard, get started at indeed dot com slash NPR podcast from NPR and WB. You are I'm Jeremy Hobson, Robin young. It's here and now and this is at the sprint to the finish line. President Trump will be campaigning in Ohio, Indiana and Missouri today ahead of tomorrow's midterms yesterday. He hammered home, the Republican theme and Tennessee, very simply if you want more caravans and more crime because crime comes with it vote for the Democrats vowed for. If you watched strong, borders and safe communities vote for the Republicans. It's very simple. Former President Obama delivering the Democrats at closing arguments mocked President Trump for saying as put it that the country's biggest security concern is impoverished migrants one thousand miles away. And he pounded the message from the Democrats that Republicans were almost able to repeal health care reform and its protection for people with pre existing conditions. The late John McCain supported that effort with his one vote for the latest. Let's bring in NPR's political. Reporter Jessica Taylor and Jessica's that pretty much the divide going into tomorrow of President Trump and his base talking about a caravan immigration, President Obama and the Democrats trying to get across pre existing conditions. Democrats have really been focused on this message of healthcare. They see it as definitely a winning issue. And it is because Republicans as you mentioned they voted for that Bill that alternately failed. That would have weakened pre existing condition protections, and that is one of the most popular. Parts of ObamaCare, and it would be somewhat ironic. If that is the issue. The now wins them back the house after it essentially lost it eight years ago in twenty ten but Trump is hammering home. This message of immigration, and sort of this many say politics of fear and racism, but this I think that's going to help them more in the Senate in these very red states than it would in the house. We'll take up a little bit of that. Because we know that Paul Ryan the party leader has apparently called reportedly called President Trump to ask them to talk more about the economy last week. They had that spat where the president said he was going to get rid of birthright citizenship. And Ryan said you can't do that. There seems to be divided on the Republican side there is and you know, I listened to some Trump's rallies that he had over the weekend. He will mention the economy, but it is sort of still he spends seems to spend the bulk of his time talking about immigration or other issues or reliving 2016 victories. These rallies have become somewhat. Predictable in most instances at this point. And I think that national Republicans I talked to a specially ones that are watching the house really wish that he would talk about me. They were very very good jobs numbers on Friday. I think any other traditional Republican president you would have seen them play that up very much, but he talks about it. But it gets overshadowed. I think by anything else he does. Well, let's hear a sampling voters because they seem to be responding to the things that their party leaders are at least on the campaign trail are talking about. Here's Christy sprung, a democrat foam at Avondale Arizona, and she was asked about her top issues healthcare, preexisting conditions is one of them my daughter's a diabetic. So I wanna make sure that if she goes and gets an insurance company that she that is still going to be taking care of her because that's really important. And then there's dotty Nicklaus from Chapman, Pennsylvania. She told him PR's Michelle Martin, she'll vote Republican because of concerns over security and immigration and what she. Perceives as bad behavior from Democrats, I see mobs in the street and Michelle bog up lesser. She said when they go low we go. Hi, well, now, all of a sudden, it's the opposite. It's when they go low, we kick them, and she's referring to a comment from Eric Holder who who said that very thing, but the mobs and the streets, the president's also been out with the mantra, Republicans produce jobs, Democrats, produce mobs, of course, Democrats are saying wait, those are Americans enacting their right to protest, but is that going over? Well, I think that this. They saw certainly saw bump in the wake of the cabinet hearings about a month ago. But pollsters and strategy. I've talked to for Republicans. That's largely I think dissipated for them in the house. Again, it still could help them in the Senate because what we're looking at are two very very different playing fields the Senate. They have the best map Republicans have the best map in a generation with ten states that President Trump carried some by twenty points or more. But ultimately only about half of those are competitive. So it could be a lot better for Republicans. They thought it would be at the outset. But still probably they're going to maybe pick up one or two seats would be a very good night for them. But the house it's being fought in the suburban seats where you have independence, and especially suburban women that want to register their dissatisfaction with President Trump. And remember these were districts that were gerrymander to really be favorable toward Republicans, but we saw them really shift in the twenty sixteen election. So it's two entirely different a battlefield to to sort of different Americas that we're looking at. It's so interesting because it is it does depend on where the seat is up for grabs as to what might happen NPR political. Reporter Jessica Taylor. Thank you. Thank you. We're one of the races. Everyone is watching is the Senate race in Missouri. New NBC Marras poll out today finds incumbent democrat Claire mccaskill up three points over Republican state attorney general, Josh Holly. President Trump returns some zuri today for his second rally there in the last five. Days and joining us now from Kansas City for the very last installment of our Senate tracker series is Samuel king Missouri government and politics reporter for Casey or high Samuel. Hi, jeremy. So Claire mccaskill is a well known name in Missouri running for her third term, but tell us more about her and how she's managed to connect with voters, even as her state has shifted further to the right over time. President Trump won there by a lot Claire mccaskill really prides herself on reaching out to across the state. A lot of observers here say that comes from her loss in a two thousand four governor's race where she did well into traditional democratic areas. But it wasn't quite enough to get her into that race. It's the only political office she ever lost. So she is really made a point of going to small towns across the state as Senator and throughout this campaign really trying to show that she is someone who could represent everyone in Missouri in the face of sort of as. You mentioned a definitely read trend in Missouri, yet President Trump won by nearly nineteen points back in two thousand sixteen Claire mccaskill opponent is thirty eight year old Josh Hawley. The state attorney general why hasn't this race been a slam dunk for him in Missouri? I think that cl- the popularity of Claire mccaskill in terms of she'd being a known figure a lot of people trust her. I talked with a couple of voters after a recent debate who said they voted for in the past. But they do have some questions about the national party overall. So it appears that Josh Holly really hasn't closed the deal so to speak with some of those voters who might be trending Republican and have voted Republican for President Trump, for example. But when you look at his campaign schedule usually today is a bit of an exception because it still last stable for the election. But if you look across he's going to really Republican areas really trying to rally that base, a sort of a Trumpian base. So it is interesting as you mentioned, you're me that it is close as it is. But I think it just points to as, you know, the complicated nature of Missouri politics. It's unusual for some of the red states to have sort of too large a relatively large metro areas that have a lot of democratic support a lot of. Critic votes. So that's something that Josh Holly is up against the wall. Okay. Well, let's listen to the candidates here is Claire mccaskill in a recent debate. Absolutely. We should secure the border. However is necessary. I stand foursquare with the president that he should use any tool of his disposal to make sure our border is never overrun that is why the border patrol agents have endorsed me in this race. So you see there that she is trying to show that she's got a tougher stance on immigration. This is Josh Hawley. The attorney general saying, maybe she's not quite as moderate as people think she is opposed this president on every single priority. Justice cavenaugh, she was a note. Justice course, she was a no tax cuts. No, securing the border know, how liberally she. Well. I if you look at depending on who you ask the clear Senator mccaskill voted with President Trump's agenda between forty to fifty percent of the time just looking at the totality in terms of border security. Definitely that's been bone of contention here. In the race mechanical as you heard touting that endorsement by the border agents union as she says, she supports a lot of funding for border security in Josh hollies, really tried to attack her on that. But in terms of other factors, like, you know, she's come out recently talking about so called crazy Democrats that she's not one of those crazy Democrats who were coming up to people at restaurants, and and part of sort of the mob. That does Republican side has been talking about us. She is definitely tried to position herself as someone who will work with the president. When it's good for Missouri and will vote against him when it's not good for the state. She said she's not going to be beholden to party leaders. Obviously, Josh Holly has really criticized her on that because if she did vote against the tax cut. She didn't think they went far enough for the middle class. She did not support the ObamaCare repeal. She voted against a Neal Gorsuch and brick heaven is well now President Trump is going to be in Missouri this evening with Russia. Mba and Sean Hannity. What are you expecting? Well, I think we're expecting sort of the same that we've seen in sort of the president's barnstorming tour across the country. He's a definitely popular here. Even that NBC mirrors poll that came out today showed him at above fifty percent in Missouri. Which is interesting when you contrast that with it showing mccaskill ahead just kinda shows you that something's here in Missouri are hard to predict. But I think the fact that it is the last rally of sort of the midterm season shows the importance that the White House is putting on this race, the vice-president Mike Pence was here on Friday and between the president's visits. He mentioned the governor Mike person was there as well. And they mentioned that either the president or vice president has been here more than ten times since they've been in office. So this short showing the importance of Missouri to the White House. And I think the timing of this rally is sort of indicative of that Samuel king, Missouri. Government and politics reporter at Casey you are. We are going to be watching Missouri tomorrow. See what happens Samuel? Thank you. Thank you. Jeremy and a little late breaking news on this from the Associated Press, Fox News. Channel says Sean Hannity will not be appearing as a guest at President Trump's campaign rally in Missouri tonight. Astronaut Scott Kelly holds the American record for the most consecutive days in space. He spent a year at the international space station a couple years ago. Now, he's published a book of photos that he took while he was there. It's called infinite wonder, you can see some of the pictures at here now dot org and Scott Kelly joins us now. Welcome. Thank you very much. Now, how much thank you very much. Now, how much did you have to learn about being a photographer to take these incredible photographs from space, you know, intra interestingly enough prior to becoming an astronaut which was in nineteen Ninety-six. We didn't all have cameras in our pockets. Some people did, but I didn't praise and wasn't really a cell phone user until about two thousand. But as an astronaut, you get a lot of training a lot of photography training, not just to take pretty pictures. But you know, for different purposes in space, whether it's, you know, scientific research, you know, taking pictures of the earth for scientific reasons or pictures of hardware or science experiments or just talk about what we do in space. Oh, photography is a big part of the job. We get a lot of training in it. But it really wasn't until I was living on the space station for long periods of time that I developed a not only a little bit of a skill for. But also, a, you know, love for taking pictures, particularly pictures that are, you know, have some artistic value to them. And how do you actually do it? It's not just like a when we sit on an airplane. Maybe take a photo out the window of what we're looking at down below. You know, the the pictures that I became a kind of a known for a little bit where these pictures that we called earth art, so trying to make a a wall worthy image of planet earth. You know, using earth is a subject matter in the way, I would do that as I would use a really long lens telephoto lens and choose interesting spots of the earth, but we are going really fast seventeen thousand five hundred miles an hour, which is five miles of second. So you got to move the camera really quickly, and you know, really steadily you get a lot of blurry photos. Yeah. You know in the beginning it takes a while to develop a good technique. I think months, actually, but some, you know, sometimes you get blurry pictures, but other times, you get pictures like a lot of the ones in my book that are really think people find, you know, mesmerizing and interesting and. The colors are incredible. I mean, these the actual colors that you're looking at from space. No, so the color. There's I never added any color to anything, but I did enhance the natural colors using a program that was part of Google's Picasso. It was like a photo editing program where you could do a computerized enhancements of images you clearly like taking pictures of the Bahamas. You know from space, the Bahamas is, you know, mazing Lee, beautiful the most expansive area of, you know, brilliantly blue water on our on our planet. And you know, I always enjoy getting pictures of the Bahamas. Enjoy visiting there to also place up close. You shared your photos that you were taking online even got a fan tweet from President Obama. What was that like realizing that your pictures were getting such a wide viewing on earth, even from the president of the United States? It was great. You know, when when you're in space for a long time, you know, it's like, I think some people say it's lonely out in space, maybe a little bit and to have that kind of connection with the people of planet earth where you realize that, you know, some of them a lot of them, maybe are including the president are appreciating what you're doing. And, you know, not only the images, but. Just the you know, the overall job in the sacrifice of being there. It's a really good feeling and helps you get through me. No really long a really long period of time in space with a good attitude. So I really appreciated the public's interest in support suspending of it being lonely in space you spent a year on the international space station. What was that like for you physically physically while you're in space? There are certain challenges the in the absence of gravity the fluid in our bodies shifts redistributes itself. So your head feels like it's full a little bit. Or you know, you often people often feel congested. You know, big headed astronaut is not just about ara- Lagos, right? But it's also about the fact that your head swells up. It's not particularly comfortable never actually goes away. Believe it or not. I mean, it gets better over time. But even at the end of a year, I still had a little bit swollen swollen head the carbon dioxide is when it's the lowest can be on the space station. It's about ten times what it is on earth ten times higher which is not comfortable. I think that also causes some congestion I year a tation a little bit of you know, when it gets really high. There's a I think it has a little bit of affect on your ability to perform at a high level and kind of gives you a little bit of mental deficit. Maybe our skin in space doesn't respond to that environment. Very well and a lot of people. So a lot of people get weird like rashes and other things on different parts of their body. He's showers in the space station. Yeah. Well, maybe that's the call. Maybe that's why you get that. I don't know. Because you don't take a shower for months, or my case nearly a year you do us like a sponge bath, which I think is you know, amounts to just moving dart around from one place to another. Wow. Well, and you talk in in your book, which is just out in paperback endurance about how when you came back from your year and Spacey, you were really sick. Like, you didn't feel well at all. Are you still feeling not perfect? No, I'm fine. I feel fine. I yeah. I didn't feel well when I returned after being in space reader may I quickly got over the the worst symptoms which was like stiffness and fatigue and swelling of my legs and nausea in a little bit of dizziness. I I got over that those kind of things within a few weeks. But now, I don't have any symptoms. Of being in space for year. I do have some structural changes. In my in, my the physiology of my my eyes, which is not completely uncommon for people that, you know, spend extended periods of time and space, and you know, I have some genetic changes seven percent of my gene expression had changed actually more than that change in space. But when I came back seven percent last I checked still hadn't returned to normal. Gene expression is, you know, DNA Arna proteins those things that, you know, very important to our physiology. And you know, what makes a cell become liver cell versus an eyeball sale had either turned itself on or turned itself off. And you know, we're trying to still understand that don't know if it's good thing or bad thing. But I don't have any physical symptoms of of that. Well, and we should mention at this point probably that you are. Are a twin your twin? Mark Kelly and many have been studying the two of you since you spent a year in space. He's been in space as well. But wasn't in space for as long as you. Yeah. He he flew in space four times over fifteen year career NASA all four times on the space shuttle twice as the commander. My career was a little bit different. Because I. After my first two shuttle flights I became a long duration crew members. So I flew twice on the slow Houston spent an extended time in space on two different occasions. What was the most difficult thing? Emotionally for you about being in space for that long. You know, it's, you know, being physically detached from, you know, your your family loved ones friends people in general. Even though I liked all the people. I was in space with not a whole lot of variety. The other thing that is I think challenging is just the fact that you can't go outside. You can't you know, be in the sun. There's no rain a wind the environment within the space station, ever changes. You can't leave. It's not particularly a small place. I never really felt like I needed more more room, but still it's a place that you can't you can never get away from. And you're you're always at work when you wake up in the morning, and when you go to sleep at night, you're still at your your place of employment for a long period of time. What did it do to your relationship with your fiancee Emeco? I think it made us, you know, stronger couple it gave us a a shared experience that was challenging for both of us in different ways. But still challenging nonetheless in some ways, I think it's more challenging for the people that get the left at home than the person that's getting to experience something extraordinary. But I think it brought us together. And then also the pictures I took in the social media and the interaction, and she was a very large part of that. And having this project that included the pictures in this new picture book. Well, something we were able to work on together engaging the public with photos, and you know, commentary of living in and working in space for a long period of time. Well, now, you're married. So I guess there's that as a piece of evidence that got okay in the end. Yeah. Yeah. Worked out. Okay. Astronaut Scott Kelly his book. Is infinite wonder and astronauts photographs from year in space tomorrow, we'll continue our conversation and ask what Scott Kelly's experience means for the possibility of getting a human to Mars. This message comes from NPR's sponsor, indeed when it comes to hiring. You don't have time to waste you need help getting to your shortlist of qualified candidates fast with indeed post a job in minutes. Set up screener questions then zero in on qualified candidates. And when you need to hire fast, accelerate your results with sponsor jobs. New users can try for free when you sign up at indeed dot com slash NPR, podcast, terms, conditions, and quality standards apply. Starting today. Amazon will offer free shipping with no purchase minimum through the holiday season, the promotion, which waives the twenty five dollar minimum customers used to have to spend in order to get free shipping. Turns up the heat on other retailers like WalMart and target. Not to mention smaller stores at a time when shipping costs are rising. Jill Schlesinger is business. Analysts with CBS news and host of Jill on money podcast is better off, I gel. Hello. So this is the first time Amazon has done this wave this twenty five dollar minimum to get free shipping. Why are they doing it? Now, I think this is sort of that put that in the category of black Friday creep, you know, when retailers basically, you're trying to get us to start spending on the holidays right after the Halloween, and that there's probably a lot more at stake Klis here, I mean forecasts are the consumers are going to be looking at spending a bit more than last year, maybe up by five percent from a year ago, strong consumer confidence growing economy, I think that this is. Is really a play that Amazon is really going after this holiday season with a big bang. Do you expect WalMart to follow suit? Well, you know, we we've got a lot of the competitors already ratcheting up so target offering free two day shipping with no minimum order size. And that does actually look like. Yeah. Pretty much the same policy. Best buy has free standard shipping with no minimum. Walmart is offering free two day shipping on orders of more than thirty five bucks. You know, I'm gonna keep an eye out for that should also note that Amazon also announced some little goodies for prime members as the folks who spend one hundred nineteen bucks a year for the free shipping. But also for streaming media. Those prime members are looking at getting some free same day delivery on more items than usual, and they're also in certain cities about sixty across the country can get delivery within an hour from whole foods through the prime now. So let's just think about this from the perspective of the small mom and pop shop that. You know, the the exist all over the country. Amazon does this they offer free shipping right now. They get everybody hooked they run their competition out of business. A lot of these smaller stores, and then next year they come along and say, okay, it's not free shipping anymore. Now. You just have to pass because you have no other option. Yeah. I mean, I think that that's a big problem. And I think that small retailers are going to really be looking at other sources. This is also reminds me of how small business Saturday, which was basically an American Express made holiday for some of their clients who were just having a really hard time competing during the financial crisis. And they really wanted to start this effort. I think that there are a lot more consumers who actually do want to support local and small businesses when they can. And maybe in this respect that Amazon's biggest strength, which is you can get everything there may also be somewhat of a weakness because you know, they've got all this inventory, but they're not experts in anything. And certainly if you are a small retailer if you can figure out how to make a better more tailored experience, I think that's where you have an opportunity. Okay. One more thing on Amazon. Joe we're starting to hear that they may have picked the place for their second headquarters, and it could be crystal city Virginia, which if people have stayed overnight gotten stuck at Reagan national airport. That's that's where you end up in one of the hotels in crystal city. What are you hearing on? Yeah. It looks like that the also fondly of the I think finally the crystal city mall paragon city mall. Yeah. So this is interesting. I mean, I think there's been kind of like a widely spread rumor that Jeff bays us a CEO who also as personally owns the Washington Post and has a big huge personal residence in area that this was going to be the place where he leaned on. I mean, look we don't know decision is supposed to come by the end of the year. They're negotiating incentives conventional wisdom often. Right Jill Schlesinger CBS. Thank you. Take care. To Yemen now, the country neighboring Saudi Arabia that's on the verge of collapse despite calls for ceasefire fighting actually escalated in some areas over the weekend more than one hundred and fifty fighters from both the rebel and government bat sides were killed as we've reported. Yemen was first racked by internal struggle when the rebel who 'this toppled the government. But it's now a proxy war with a Saudi led coalition backed by the US fighting the who the's who are supported by Iran and are also fighting the former government forces and that fighting hasn't lit up despite a recent photo of starving. Seven-year-old? Her ribs, stretching her skin a week ago readers were profoundly affected by her picture on the front page of the New York Times the end of the week. They learned she died. Tyler Hicks took that picture for a story by reporter Declan Walsh who joins us now on Skype from Cairo and Declan. You only knew this girl in her family briefly. But I still feel the need to say, you know, sorry for your loss. But what was it like? To see the impact she made over this very short arc that she had with readers. Well, we were overwhelmed by the reaction from readers, so many people who rode in. They wanted to know more about her. They wanted to help her directly if they could they wanted to follow up on her case. And as you said when we did that tragically we discovered that Hussein had actually died just around the time, we published the original story, and for me, really, you know, this was a sign that. I'm Lou Hussein story is just one among hundreds of thousands in in Yemen. But I think that certainly for our readers, and for many people the scale of the suffering and of the catastrophe in Yemen is often hard to grasp. So when it is filtered if you like through the one very tragic story of one child who really helps people to understand what's going on with so many other people in Yemen at the same time. Well, this is what least you set said on Friday as well that this, you know, this has happened. Traditionally a refugee child gets washed up on the show. Roar and suddenly is are focused their you know, the fear is that then is will then turn away. But right now, people are still questioning what is going on in Yemen. Remind us how this happened. She was a displaced person. That's right, almost parents are almost family had come from another part of the country, and that was one of the first areas to be subjected to the Saudi led coalition's campaign of aerial bombardment. When it started about three years ago. That's also the homeland of the who the the Hootie movement that now controls northern Yemen that the that the Saudis are fighting against so her family were displaced from their home about two or three years ago when their area was bombed. They were forced to move to this other area where we found her and there they found refuge in part by all accounts was a very shabby refugee camp with very poor facilities. They don't live in a tent they live in a sort of a shelter. That's made from sheet, plastic sheeting and sticks. And. And and so on and you know, like many people in that area. There resources have become progressively more and more strained. So you had both the impact of the war over the last couple of years bringing evermore people into these areas and placing evermore strain on the very meagre Associes at that are there to COPA refu cope with refugees. And then over the last while you had this really severe economic crunch in the country where the prices have been skyrocketing and really pushing food beyond the most basic foodstuffs beyond the reach of many people, and what that means is for people like her family who were already living on the edge that starts to push them over that. Thirteen million people are in danger of starving. That's thirteen million Amal's. But in reading your recent reporting on what happened. It's sickening because she made it to a hospital because of this. Imminent death in her illness and her obvious starvation that hospital wanted her to go to a Doctors Without Borders hospital about fifteen miles away. But her mother told you what they couldn't Gus right? Like, so many people they just simply didn't have the money to make the journey a mobile discharge the few days after we met her she had made some modest improvements. But the doctors wanted to send her on. But the mother said, look we we are out of cash. And so even though it was only fifteen miles away. She could she said she did not have the money for that fair. So she brought almost back to their home and tragically two or three days later after that. Apparently, we later learned while the mother was making a fresh effort to try and take her to a hospital a mole died for want of gasoline. Which is you know, prices risen fifty percent. You can't get fifteen miles. Look couple of questions there. The photographs Tyler's photographs are as usual incredible your reporting partner here, I'm looking at one Amal is lying on the bed. This, you know, tiny stick figure and there's a child sitting next to her in her mother's lap. Who who you knew looks full-bodied? Do we know why one child stars and another dozen well appearances can be deceptive and sometimes children who are malnourished actually have swollen bellies. So it can be hard to tell express Lance. Secondly, the way that Monye Tricia works, and some of these families is that it may just affect the weakest child I or a child may become nourished and then full as amounted into a cycle of an hunger. So the hunger or the lack of nutrition bricks down defenses than you get sick. And then it becomes a psycho. That leads you into this spiral that for some for some young children can end in debt. So if doesn't affect old children equally, and that's why it can be it. You know, Yemen can be a confusing place when you are going to look at humanitarian situation because firstly when you arrive in town, you will see supermarkets that are full of food, and then you'll see many many bekker's on the streets who are looking begging for arms. And you realize that the problem is not the lack of food in the country. It's that very few people can afford to buy it. Similarly when you go into the hunger. Wards you will see children in a terrible condition like almo-, then you will see their mothers who are for the most part circus under visitors fully veiled, and some aid workers described to me, this is the hidden part of the famine many of these women are also severely malnourished. But it is not apparently evidence to the I because for cultural reasons, they just can't be photographed or seen a public. Look declan. Just remind us how we got here. The who? 'this who we as we said, I topple the government in are. Now finding a Saudi led coalition primarily Saudi Arabia. They're the who these backed by Iran. The who these were once royalty in this country understand we don't expect you to take us through all the history. But we would tell people to your colleague Robert worth New York Times magazine story yesterday in Yemen survive Saudi Arabia's war, it's pretty incredible. But before the who these toppled the government, there was a fear on the part of Saudi Arabia that people within Yemen, we're turning more towards Iran and Shiite Islam as opposed to the Sunni Islam that Saudi Arabia embraces, and that they're the seeds of where we are. Now, some of the seats are their ducks. Right. So look the who these are grilling movement that had I rose against the against the central government in Yemen back in two thousand and four, but they're really rose to prominence in the aftermath of the Arab spring, an as they rose. Comments after two thousand eleven they received help Miran, and that is really what prompted the Saudi intervention in two thousand fifteen you had this new defense minister who had just been appointed Mohammad bin saw non he's now, the crown prince and the most powerful man in Saudi Arabia, and he really sort of announced himself on the regional if not the world stage by starting this very aggressive intervention in Yemen against what he saw as a proxy for Saudi Arabia's regional rival, Iran. Focus is also on the crown prince bin Salman because of his assumed an alleged ordering of the killing of Saudi journalist Jamal kashogi in Istanbul. Is there any sense that the that would can be used as leverage, you know, to get him to perhaps back off just a bit? As what was a war in Yemen is now a humanitarian crisis the death of Kashoggi's sort of. Swung. A very sharp spotlight on Saudi Arabia's actions abroad. So I think that the death of kashogi combined with the rapidly deteriorating humanitarian crisis in the country have combined if you like in the last month to give rise to this sudden western momentum for a move for peace from the US Defense Secretary Jim Mattis from Mike Pompeo, an even today from the British Foreign Secretary, Jeremy hunt who said that he sees a window for peace in Yemen. And they've been calls for a ceasefire within the next few days. But all of that is in shock contrast to what we see going on on the ground as you mentioned introduction and in the last couple of days. So it seems like there's two different tracks going on at the moment. In terms of what's been set in public. What's what's going on on the ground? Well, Declan Walsh New York Times reporter along with your colleague Tyler Hicks. The photographer. We wanna thank you for also shining a light on Yemen. Thank you. Thank you. Guns have become an issue in tomorrow's midterm elections, including in Washington state's eighth congressional district. Just east of Seattle. David hide from member station. K U O W reports. Jacob Bernado was walking onto the parking lot of an insecure Washington elementary school back in two thousand eleven when he heard a voice droplets in your hands and get on the ground Bernardo had unknowingly walked into the scene of a shootout. The suspect was carrying two rifles and nearly a thousand rounds of ammunition. Cops found him a shootout occurred in the man was killed. No one else was injured today. Gunshots can still be heard on those same school grounds. It's loudest here on the ball field less than two hundred feet is the crow flies from the gun range at the sportsman's club. The first time I did hear the shooting range was at a soccer game that my kids, and I were attending. And I didn't know that the gun range was open and shooting. And when we heard shots, I may both of my sons duck and cover in the bleachers. They were terrified, and I was terrified that's free Thorson. She and other often newer residents want the range gone, but the effort hasn't gotten much support from elected officials or the school district. That's because many longtime residents don't see a problem with the sportsman's club for them. The pop of gunfire is the sound of tradition an old northwest values. Tom MEC lers been a member of the club for fifty years. The clubhouse were originally built during the WPA dis in the nineteen thirties. It's a log framed cabin that was built with works project. Adminis-? Ration- money during the new deal. Julie Watkins, these families lived in is since the late eighteen hundreds she remembers the club as an important part of the fabric of life in town. It wasn't proud thing to be a member of they had their monthly meetings. They had lots of activities, I personally went through firearm, safety training and hunter safety training here for his Mesler gets wise. Some families worry about gun sounds at probably would caution fear, I conceive that. But he says that fear is misplaced from Shakti standpoint. You can't get it any safer than what we have with the range. So at the heart of this dispute over the gun range is a cultural conflict that's found its way into the battle for the eighth congressional district. It's one of the races that could determine future control of the US house. Dr Kim Trier's a pediatrician based in Issaquah. She's also a democrat running for congress to replace Republican, Dave Reichert. When I heard the most about this was right after parkland and a lot of my patients teenagers who go to Issaquah high school. We're hearing the shooting range, and it was scaring them schreier is not taking a stand on the gun issue. But she is making gun violence an issue in her campaign. When a parent tells me think their son might be depressed. One of the first questions. I ask is gun in the house dryer supports Washington state gun initiatives, sixteen thirty nine this year, which includes tougher background checks and storage requirements. It would also raise the purchase age for semiautomatic firearms from eighteen to twenty one her opponent, Republican Dino Rossi is opposed. I'm sworn in as a member of congress. I'm sworn in to actually uphold the constitution not just the first amendment. But it's also the second man is well, and and I plan on doing that Rossi got an eight rating from the NRA back when he was. A Washington state Senator, but Chris Vance a political consultant and former Republican who lives in the district says the NRA's positions are less popular in the eighth than they used to be the key to this district is are the suburban voters suburban voters are moderate on just about everything and that includes guns. Vance says memories of the days when having a gun range next door to a school seem normal are fading in this district where a shootout on school grounds. Still haunt some people including Jacob Bernado. I mean, all I can remember is just laying there and feeling like, I I could I could die for here. And now, I'm David. Hi. What set off and we hear good news about the environment. But there is a new United Nations report out today with a positive outlook for the ozone layer. After decades of concern that ozone was thinning and the discovery of a large ozone hole over the south pole. Scientists now say they expect the layer to heal completely by the twenty sixties you'll remember that ozone depletion was caused by Arizona sprays and coolants among other things as the ozone layer thin. Scientists predicted that earth would have less protection from harmful ultraviolet rays, and that could cause skin cancer and crop damage. So what reversed the ozone depletion the Montreal protocol in nineteen eighty-seven phased out, chlorofluorocarbons and other chemicals that cause the most damage and scientists say it appears to have been a success. In fact, the treaty has been called one of the most successful international agreements, all of the UN Member States signed it something advocates of action on climate change have pointed to it. It can be done when the world acts together. So twenty sixty that'll be so exciting to see. Oh, can't wait. Good news. Here has a production of NPR WB. You are in association with the BBC World Service. I'm Jeremy Hobson, Robin young. This is here now.