20 Episode results for "Dassault"

What kind of art can AI produce?

FT Tech Tonic

20:32 min | 1 year ago

What kind of art can AI produce?

"This Financial Times podcast is supported by capital. One capital one is re imagining banking by offering accounts with no fees are minimums that can be opened from anywhere in five minutes capital one. What's in your wallet capital one a hello and welcome back to tectonic the show in which we look at the way technology is changing our lives. I'm John Thornhill Innovation Editor the Financial Times in London. In this episode we go to the tectonic stage at the recent. Ft Weekend Festival in London where mathematician Marcus Dassault toy professor professor of public understanding of Science Oxford University challenged an audience to see if they could tell the difference between computer generated art and the real thing. Marcus has been a guest on tectonic before where he spoke about his book the creativity code how a is learning to write paint and think in this edited version of his talk hoke used joined by pianist Moses and performing a I compose music alongside works by Balkan chipper Ooh that sounds like a buck corral role but can you tell whether it was written by the Baroque composer or by a contemporary a I listen to find out I think in this climate of ai becoming so dominant there's a fear amongst all of us about whether our jobs again to be under threat but I think there is one thing that we all regard as something which is uniquely human defines us as humans which is our ability to be creative and certainly as a mathematician I use I use the facts that I believe mathematics highly creative subjects as protection against a lot of people who think that shoddy mathematicians are going to be the first to be put out of a job by a computer. I was on a committee of the Royal Society. Royal Society was very interested in looking at the impact that machine learning deep learning was going to have on our side of the next ten years and I was very a privileged to be on this committee to try and assess the impact Margaret Boden was there. She's been thinking for a long while about what she calls. These tin cans might be able to do and she has one is working definition of creativity and I think we can argue about walk. Creativity really is but this is quite useful as a test. She thinks it should be novel. Well computers can make a lot of new things we can judge that quite objectively but it also should be surprising and have value now supplies them value a much more subjective. I I might value a poem that I've written and you'll get selected crap surprise as well it can vary from one culture to another one historical periods to another but as the power of this machine learning because what machine learning does is to take a lot of data and learn from that data about what moves to make next so perhaps it takes data of things that we find wing surprising things we value and it can learn what those key things are to be able to produce its own move the exciting to me about the role that AI is planning is moving is out of our comfort zone. I think that as humans we often just start repeating behaviors because they work. I recognize that in my own research and we start behaving a little bit too much like machines that works. I'm going to do it again so my belief and it's the kind of message of my book is I think I may have the potential to push out of the comfort zones. We get into stop us behaving like machines a May help us to behave much more like creative humans again so that's been the kind of mission of this book which is to see this new appearing. Maybe it can be creative in things like the off or mathematics and actually I'm not the first to think about this. Ada lovelace the first list CODA in history. We celebrate her anniversary each October. She was the first to recognize that machines might be able to do really interesting things by giving them instructions to do you cool stuff so she saw the difference engine that's bobby created and she started to think well. I can make that thing do much more interesting things to just mathematical calculations and and already in the notes that she writes for this machine of the code that she wrote she was speculating the engine might compose elaborate and scientific pieces of music of any any degree of complexity or extent. She was already seeing that music is full of patterns. Maybe you can get a machine to put those together and create music but she had a word of caution about the role of machine in creating something like music and she said it's desirable to guard against the possibility of exaggerated ideas that might arise the powers of the analytic engine. It has no pretensions whatever to originate anything it can do whatever we order it to perform and I think that has been the thought in the past that well. We're writing. The code wit telling the machine wants to do so. We're the ones who are understanding being creative. We're just it's getting a machine to implement it. Maybe faster deeper further but the creativity is really with the CODA. They're writing the code telling the machine what to do now. This is why I think there's been a change which might challenge love laces believe because if code can learn and change mutate just as we as humans. Do we learn best when when we fail and we learn how to do something better. This code is changing mutating as encounters new data such that the code by the end actually is distinct. I'm from the original code that was written so there's beginning to be a disconnect from the original. CODA person who wrote the code and the final care that appears and the code that we now producing we we don't really understand quite how it's making its decisions quite because it so rich and has changed and evolved so I believe there is now a real challenge to lovelace is belief. DEF- really originate anything I think at some point we might be able to say it's the code now which is being created because the Coda doesn't actually know how why it's making his decisions so you've probably heard the turing test which is kind of computer policy itself off in interaction online for example and you can't tell between the human and the computer. There's something called the lovelace test. This is the challenge of whether a machine can originate a creative work of art such processes repeatable now. This is important important because I think it shouldn't just be some random interaction with the environment so actually the Co doesn't know quite why it made that decision because it's something randomly coming from the outside. It should know in some sense. It should be deterministic -ly programmed into the computer such can reproduce it yet. The programmer is unable to explain how the algorithm produces USA output so there's the challenge. Can we get the code actually being the creative one rather than just simply the Coda what about that initial challenge of music that Ada lovelace gave Abbas. There's something very special about music and it's the connection with mathematics because music is a lot about patterns and recognizing those patterns then patterns mutating and I listen into a lot of classical music. If I stick on radio three I can pretty quickly identify the composer that I'm listening to why because they have signature characteristics about the way they write their music if they are those patterns inside there that I can pick up is something that an. IRA is going to be able to pick up to may be able to learn and put together to bake a new piece of music so we got a wonderful from the junior royal academy who's going to offer our new challenges. I'm going to have by Moses up to the keyboard gave him around the thank you both houses now always starts with Baw when it comes to music because has a very algorithm processes. If you take something the musical offerings balk even these encode he gives you a little seed of music and a kind of weird rule and you have to expand the music to be able to play the piece. Perhaps it's just one line of music but there's a cliff upside down at the other end. You realize you have to play the thing forwards and backwards so there's already quite a lot of algorithms at work to create the complexity complexity of bark so we got two pieces of ball that we're gonNA play for you. One is being created bar and the other one is being created by an learning on boxed toil now. These are two crawls quite nice because they break closed form four voices. You're going to listen to the first one and then the second one and then you're gonNa vote which one you think it is. The is going to hear the first corral great and now the second corral big applause opposes Broccoli. I think he played those very well but he doesn't know yet. Which one is the. Which one is the real bar? I'm going to ask Moses. Put you on the spot. Which one do you think is giving itself a way as perhaps the artificial one. I think it might be the first one the first one and what for you is feeding artificial. I one aggressions that more unless four or more quote unless lifelock okay so. Let's see what you're thinking actually a little bit of an age for the second one being offered official yes. Why do you think the second one was official few few calls it'd be off. Actually this is very unforgiving because you get ones John's little thing which is wrong it. Could it gives the end. Let's see shall we which one is the eye so the red one is the first one and the orange one is the second one so the orange and the second one was actually. I that's balk the first one. I think that just really goes to show how convincing this was. The second one is slightly more interesting actually but balked corrals a pretty boring. I couldn't listen to those very long. Ball had to punch out these calls every Sunday. I think it'd be quite grateful. Forbid of self go to this boy so a little bit more interesting challenge what about Chopin Lynn. Some Chopin pieces mosaic is going to have a go at one of these is crazy eighty by artificial intelligence one by Japan himself mazurkas his bread and butter over to macy's for our first Moussaka not mazing. What but was that show power or not. Let's hear the second Muzak uh-huh the first one artificial or the second one typical both had little humor to them so can only be humorous like chopin kind so I'm going to put you on the spot. Moses again which the artificial one also was the first one was one and what was giving it away one. I think able to make it easier than the sounds by writing in a way that's more Dante. I think this is really interesting so we'll. Moses said there is that Chopin I'm going to try and make this sound complicated but actually sit more easily on their hands and I think this is one of the things about artificial intelligence. It isn't embodied so he doesn't care about about playing with fingers and things like this so. Let's see what your thinking. Let's reveal. Is it the first one yes in fact the first one so Moses you did get it right and I think it's interesting interesting. This idea of embodiment because composes will writes that it fits very nicely underhand but I have to think about that and it's one of the big distinguishes about I and human is that we're in bodied and at the moment isn't so could embodiment not be incorporated into the program in some sense it probably already is because it's learning on material that already has embodiment even as part of its might be picking that up but certainly a lot of progress in. Ai is about putting the intelligence inside a physical body and putting those physical limitations on as an attempt but actually you know what that's will help us to create intelligence like ours but I think the really interesting thing is to try and create new intelligence. That may be different from one. That's embodied great to create things of a similar nature but again I want to push into the new and this story of Bernard Blue Bats a jazz musician who had a piece of learning on his jazz riffs the world of his sound world. I think this is exciting because when he started to play with this this was his response he said well. The system shows me ideas I could have developed but it would have taken a years actually develop. Its years ahead of me yet. Everything it plays is unquestionably. Believe me and here again. We see the taking the world that we have and saying but there are other things you can do with this. You've got stock in a small corner of your sound world yet. With your world. You can do so much more. This was pushing him to be more all creative breaking out of the mechanical way that he was playing okay music quite successful. What about the written word. Are we going to have an eye and a couple of years signing books for you well. I think the written word is somewhere. That actually is having a lot of trouble with because the written word has so much more than just being given language this culture and history so much more world of association that it finds difficult to cope with but it is quite good locally producing texts which is pretty convincing. There's a company could bought nick who laughed oft Harry Potter and they decided volumes is quite a lot of material to be able to learn from so it took an algorithm and gave it all of the seven volumes of Harry Potter. Jk Okay rollings rising got it to learn the style kind of themes and produce an eighth volume or at least the beginnings of it. I love the title for this. It's called Harry Potter and the Portrayal World Trade of what looked like a large part of ash great title for Book Anyway Sawed Off Pretty Well Magic. It was something that Harry pulled us all. It was very good well or and he's he's picked up. The magic is a major theme in these books that's pretty small leathery sheets of rain lashed at Harry's ghost as he walked across the grounds leathery sheets of rain. What a lovely image. I'm not sure I would come with such an interesting image. As he walked across the grounds towards the costal then it started to lose the plot a little run with standing there doing kind of frenzied tap dance he saw Harry and immediately began to eat Chinese family wrongs wrong shirt was just as bad as wrong himself so complete did he began to lose the plot and this was interesting a lot of the that's being produced can make things which are locally quite convincing but it starts to lose all sense of global able structure even with the music we listen to the jazz continuator that learned on Bernard Lou bad stuff to solve. It is pretty amazing. Do you need to be and you're listening but after out five minutes minutes over you get completely bored because it doesn't know where it's going. It's got no overarching narrative to it and this seems to be the real challenge at the moment with the that's being produced but you know I think this question. Why are we driven as humans to create things. Why do we paint. Why do we write music. Why do we write novels. Actually I think he's trying signed to get to the heart of one of the big problems we have on the scientific books which is the hard problem of consciousness the challenge of really understanding what it's like to be somebody else to see how how you see the world so. I think art is our best. FM scanner into understanding the inner world of somebody else sharing my way of seeing the world and George George Eliot certainly some of this up the greatest benefit we owe to the artist where the painter poet or novelist is the extension of our sympathies artists near thing to life. It's a motive amplifying experience and extending contact with our fellow men beyond the bounds of our personal lot and I think if you look back in history. When did we start to become creative not just making adding to the sake of sharing are in a world's forty thousand years ago? I suspect that that's also when consciousness began to appear in soit humans that consciousness and and creativity go very much hand in hand. Now what about computers I think at some stage this thing here in my pocket will become conscious. I think some sage it was sunny. Go I think therefore I am is an in a world there and we're going to need to know about that and I think actually the ought that it produces might be our best tool for understanding were there is an in a world there and particularly if it condign said if a lion could speak we could not understand him when a machine becomes conscious. It's going to be a very different consciousness from us us and I think that it will produce will probably be the best way of telling what it's really like to be piece of. Thanks for listening. We'll be back next week with another episode of tectonic in the meantime we welcome comments and suggestions from listeners so please email tectonic. FDA Dot Com and let us know what you think of the show. This episode of tectonic is produced by purchase. Luck uh-huh yeah this financial. Times podcast is supported by capital one capital. One one is re imagining banking by offering accounts with no fiercer minimums that can be opened from anywhere in five minutes capital one. What's in your Wallet Capital One N._a.

Moses Ada lovelace Harry Potter Financial Times Royal Society John Thornhill Ball Marcus Dassault London Margaret Boden professor Chopin Lynn official hoke lifelock AI Editor Science Oxford University
CNN10 - 3/27/20

CNN 10 (video)

10:00 min | 1 year ago

CNN10 - 3/27/20

"Jobless pleased will never be an awesome as Fridays and must get two zero when it's because they've been moving in the opposite direction that there are first topic today on CNN. Ten I'm Coral Zeus the US Department of Labor says last week initial jobless claims spiked to three point. Two eight million. Here's what that means. According to invest a Pedia this is a number of people who ask the government for unemployment benefits because they've lost their jobs in layoffs or business cutbacks. If they meet the requirements for getting help the government will pay part of their income for a limited amount of time and initial jobless claims counts those who request these benefits for the first time. The Labor Department's been keeping track of this statistic since nineteen sixty seven. It's a major indication of how the US economy is doing. And this is the first time that initial jobless claims have ever increased by three point. Two eight million. The previous record in Nineteen eighty-two was less than seven hundred thousand so this reflects how quickly the corona virus pandemic has cause businesses to temporarily shut down in most American industries. The silver lining is the word temporarily. Yes economists are expecting millions of job losses in the weeks ahead but they also expect the economy to get better later this year as the spread of Cova nineteen slows down and US Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin says the surgeon unemployment claims was recorded before. Congress passed an economic stimulus. Bill which he said would help workers on the front lines of this pandemic or being hailed as heroes. We told you how people in several countries are applauding healthcare providers. Now some grocery store employees are being recognized for their risks and hard work. We're asking everyone to work at home. Possible postponed unnecessary travel. We recognize it while many American workers can work from home. Many others cannot or keeping our stores open to serve the American consumer. The stocking up their stores like they've never stockton before and create an environment. That's safe for our key members making sure that they feel supported during this very critical times areas. One o'clock in the morning on all the people here at giant working lark. Ti Determined. Mike sorry for starters and the thing about is unprecedented health crisis in this country right now and myself along with thousands of hundreds of thousand grocery work in concert are on the front lines and I mean it's what we do is what it is and all of a sudden we've been thrust into the role of what they call a Simpson personnel. The customers are buying three and four hundred dollars worth of groceries. I just had some hand so I was Stocking and I couldn't even get it off of our cart and onto the shelf for people are already like ripping into boxes and taking it. You store opens their six. Am Trust in me when you pull up at six. Am People there people shopping and wanted to know cave. Have their when we have this. Wiz The next delivery I can just say I have worked for cargo for ten years and this is the absolute worst I have ever seen. It haven't dealt with this amount of like shortages in workers to a lot of folks are just calling out because they don't feel safe which is totally reason. Well I look at it at this point it is what is this is my job and only thing. I can do is decide to take an aggressive approach to wash my hands at Dassault's distancing and everything that they're asking us new manager all workers to try to stay at least six feet away from each other but we can't stay six feet away from the customers constantly having to tell myself don't touch my face washing my hands frequently. Trying to keep six feet away from people waco wear gloves. Protect your hands in we. Santa Taszar hands in between each customer. I for the most Wyatt Man. I can really really save customers. They they're thinking of eight-man coming out here and he's been doing customers. Thank me for being here working and they a lot of them understand. What's warm all right now. They we have a good relationship with most of the customers understand. You know every feel good about it. End Date if people really appreciate what you're doing. Retail workers have always been undervalued underpaid right. Now we're seeing where they are basically holding glue right now and I feel every grocery work in the United States of America and speak to them. I mean you know just be cautious in BC then second trivia in what nation which borders on Costa. Rico would you find the largest lake in Central America Nicaragua Panama El Salvador? Nicaragua or lake. Nicaragua is located in the southwest Nicaragua. Like any country. Nicaragua has its share of struggles. It's the poorest country in Central America. It has high underemployment when people have more skills than their jobs require and there have been widespread protests against the government in recent years. But it's also rich history rich and beauty and rich and activities for anyone who travels there nicknamed the land of lakes volcanoes. Nicaragua won't disappoint the outdoor lover or the history lover or even the poet with the Pacific Ocean to the West and the Caribbean Sea to the East Nicaragua Paxon outdoor adventures historic cities and breathtaking scenery. Well I think. Nicaragua is one of central. America's most Diversely appealing countries appeal to beachgoers and people who want outdoor adventures. You know but it's also a a a country with a lot of history so if you go to a place like own in Granada you're gonNA find history at every corner. It's also a spot for I'm for poetry lovers This is a nation of Poets Ruben. Dario Alfonso Cortes. So that's a big draw for a lot of people that's not region along the West Coast called the Pacific. Lowlands has a taste of all. These highlights one. Great draw is the Lago Nicaragua. The largest lake in Central America and honest metais an island boasting two large volcanoes Vulcan Maderas and Volk on concepcion. The volcanoes are great spots for hiking. But be sure to take a guide to avoid getting lost. The volcanoes the main activity the main draw that people are going to be hiking up but there's also kayaking swimming. There's some great towns built into the mountain. There's some coffee plantations bird-watching lots of wildlife back on the mainland. If time at the beach is on the top of your list the coastal town of San Juan. Del Sewer is worth a visit. There's a real laid back vibe. There it is an old fishing town so it still has that vibe. It's not over developed or you know it's a great base also for seeing Nicaragua and while you might not think of Nicaragua as a destination for snowboarders. Just outside the historic town of Leone is set on NATO about Qena where extreme sports enthusiasts can hike up and volcano board down the ash on the slows American Bison Aka Buffalo's can grow to be six and a half feet tall and weighed two thousand pounds so when I heard approached. Ktm's Dion Braxton while he was reporting a yellowstone national park. Oh my God Ono. He wasn't messing with after socially distancing himself he shot this video of the animals that had gotten too close yellowstone says. Braxton did the right thing the closest I've been to bison is Ted's Montana Grill but never got ox noxious in person. I also would have said by because while they may be vegetarian. It's still wise to hope it. No one wants beef with the buffalo trouble that could ruin your whole day a girl. Zoos show our viewers at Melbourne highschool. I have a soft spot for the bulldogs in Melbourne Florida. We hope you and everyone watching around. The world has a happy and healthy weekend for all of us here at C.

Nicaragua United States Central America Nicaragua Pana Central America Lago Nicaragua US Department of Labor America East Nicaragua Paxon CNN Pedia Labor Department Congress Dario Alfonso Cortes Dion Braxton Dassault Ktm Bill Granada
How to Count to Infinity & Why People Believe in Aliens and Other Unbelievable Things

Something You Should Know

43:19 min | 10 months ago

How to Count to Infinity & Why People Believe in Aliens and Other Unbelievable Things

"Today on something you should know how does drinking water make you smarter? I'll explain that then creating numbers and learning how to count completely changed our world as did the concept of infinity you know there is the biggest number as one of my favorite jokes is mathematics teacher wash cloths. You know what's the biggest number and somebody puts up their hand and says a billion one and the teacher guys what about a billion and two and the student says along Berry Clicks also today if You haven't online dating profile. You probably need to change your picture and why do people believe in bigfoot and aliens and conspiracy theories years ago I used to pick fights with people on facebook who with post conspiracy theories and I would correct them by giving them the factual truth, and if you've ever done that, you find out that that actually rarely works what's driving people to cling to these ideas usually has very little to do with the facts all this today on something you should know. It's really been gratifying to hear from a number of people who have heard me talk about better help on this podcast. Then they tried it and we're very glad they did better. Help is professional counseling conducted online. These are real counselors licensed professional therapists today. So many people are feeling lonely and depressed and unhappy, and they have no one to talk to, and that's the key I think being able to talk to someone about what's going through your head and your heart. If you're not feeling happier, you're not reaching your goals or you're feeling a sense of hopelessness whatever's bothering you better help. Can help you. It's convenient, professional and affordable. You connect in a safe environment either with online video or on the phone better help is really filling a need in fact so many people have been using better help their recruiting additional counselors. In all fifty states I want you to start living a happier life. As something you should know listener, you'll get ten percent off your first month by visiting better help dot com slash S. Y. S. K. join over one million people taking charge of their mental health. Again, that's better. Help H. E. L. P. Better help dot com slash S. Y. S. K.. somethingyoushouldknow fascinating. Intel. The world's top I and practical advice you can use in your life today something he should now Mike carruthers. Welcome to something you should know. How many times in your life had been told to drink more water that you don't drink enough water that water is essential to your physical health. Well as it turns out, water can also make you smarter. In research students who sip water during a test performed better and received higher test scores why it's believed to be for one or more of three reasons. hydration improves brain function. We know that metal performance and alertness go down when a person is dehydrated. So it stands to reason that increasing hydration will improve brain function. Number two sipping water has long been suggested as a way to calm test anxiety by offering a momentary distraction it breaks the cycle of anxious thoughts which leads to better test performance and three. The placebo effect water has gotten a lot of good press lately, and if people believe water helps brain function that expectation alone could be enough to show an increase in test performance and that is something you should know. When you were very young, you learn to count one, two three and off you went and that skill that you mastered back. Then you now use every day multiple times a day. Imagine though imagine if we couldn't count how would you keep track of anything? Well, it actually used to be pretty difficult the ability to count has changed the world in many ways Marcus. Dassault toy is a professor of mathematics at the University of Oxford and he's author of the book how to count to Infinity and he's here to talk about the fascinating history of counting and why it's so important to us I'm Markus great to be with you. So begin by explaining a bit about the history of counting. I think it was one of the things that human species started to do. As soon as they had language, they were counting things and I think in part it was because we wanted to keep track of time and the very. First kind of examples of counting our bones that we discovered from about forty thousand years ago, which has little notches on the side of the bone, and we think that probably what somebody was counting was maybe the passage of the moon or days, and by putting these notches on they keep track of time somehow So counting really goes back a very long way bots. I think that's to see counting really done in a kind of intelligent way you starting to look at the Egyptians and the Babylonians who are starting to. Use something more sophisticated than just not choose on bones after all that's quite hard to keep track of weather is that seventeen notchers or nineteen notches? So the Egyptians and the Babylonians really the first culture to start to represent the idea of number by some interesting symbols and were those early symbols somewhat similar to our one, two, three four or was was a completely different. Well, it's very interesting because the first example is all quite similar just to the notches, but our brain finds it quite difficult beyond about four or five things to distinguish. Four, from five from sakes and so you start to see examples of some sort of symbolic representation for a number like five. One of the interesting coaches see this is a mayan culture where they use dots for numbers but one they when they reach five dolts instead of doing five dollars Sant, she wore loin through the full dots they've already got. So it's a little bit like the prisoner in his cell mocking off the days that he's still got left to heal till he gets released and marks one, two, three, four and. Then puts a strike through five. So the minds you see a similar idea where you have four dots and then a line represents five The Babylonians are doing something quite similar. They're using uniform again, lots of not choose, but then a symbolic representation for when they have too many notches but I think the Egyptians are quite interesting because they're using interesting little pictures to represent ten hundreds In fact, a million is represented by a little man on his knees with his hands in the air as if he's just win the lottery says. Each different cultures coming up with a different way of representing number. And what about Roman numerals I mean they're sort of still around we don't use them for very much except I remember learning about them in school and what they were or what some of the numbers were but but. They strike me as being some early representations of numbers but really they're just they're just letters. Well they all let us and they represent sort of the beginning of the name of those numbers meal lay thousand the is representing a thousand bucks a real vote when it comes to Roman numerals because. They get a larger number hundred, thousand, ten, thousand. They've got to write down more and more lettuce or come up with a different letter to represent that. So if they want to write down really big numbers that continually having to to create new symbols to represent larger numbers, this is also true of the Egyptians. They just had to draw new little pictures every time the number went up by a factor of ten and this is one of the balloons. So Klama because they realized that you could use something cool the place number system where At should you can use the same symbol but it will represent different things. So we already have that were the number like a hundred and eleven. That's one one one. But those ones are representing different things. One Unit One, ten, one, hundred. So this is a revolutionary moments in mathematics when the Babylonians realized, you can have just a finite number of symbols but still use those to count all the way to infinity if you want it. Yeah. Well, that's pretty remarkable when you think about it to come up with that like, Hey, look. We just need these nine numbers a we can do any number in the world. That's pretty cool. I think it is. I think it is a truly is stunning moment but there's another really interesting fact inside here, which is you mentioned nine numbers, and in fact of course, we have a tents one, which is the zero. Now the Babylonians they would need a symbol to represent, for example Another interesting thing. I should say with the Babylonians is that they weren't working in powers of ten, but actually powers of sixty So they would have symbols all the way up to fifty nine and then they were tip over and do one zero to represent A. Lot of sixty, and this is of course why we have sixty seconds in a minute sixty minutes in an hour back goes all the way back to the ancient Babylonians. But they would need a symbol represent perhaps a no units and so the only dear of zero was starting to bubble up the Babylonians because of the place number system. But what's fascinating is that the Babylonians never use zero in its own right to represent the. Because numbers are meant to count something and there's no point counting things if there's nothing there and this is another revolution remain counting, which happens in India in the seventh century AD when the Indians suddenly realize now, actually we we do onto symbol for nothing nothing is important and that really goes back to sort of Indian culture where the idea of the void is very important in in Indian philosophy. And so a symbol for the void for nothing was something that they could conceive of whilst perhaps, the Europeans, for example, just didn't get for ages why you would need a number for nothing if you're not counting anything, why do you need a symbol as you were talking I was just imagining can can you imagine trying to do math without zero I mean it's impossible. Obviously, it wasn't impossible but. How hard would be if you couldn't represent. Nothing well, exactly it's actually was really difficult to do calculations before we had zero. If you're working in Roman numerals I, mean listen should try this right down to Roman numerals and drawing multiply them together. It becomes such a huge mess and in fact, the role that zero plays in making calculations so much easier was one of the reasons these numbers just kind of quote on in Europe because people realize if you use the symbols zero all the way up to nine with a place number system. You you have power you could keep track of calculations. You didn't have to to give up the kind of power to those who had an abacus, for example, who could be tricky and and creek you on the way to doing that calculations. So this is a very powerful moment when suddenly it democratized counting in a way that it allowed everyone to keep track of what was happening within numbers. So at some point early in this whole new. Counting thing somebody must have said, well, well, wait a minute we're counting here and as it turns out, we could count. Forever there's no end to this and that had to be a fairly profound moment when you realize that counting Ken go on forever. Absolutely. Because there is no biggest number I mean as one of my favorite jokes is the mathematics teacher who asked the class you know what's the biggest number and somebody puts up their hand and says a billion in one and the teacher guys what about a billion and two and the students says Pauline was very close But the point is that, of course, you can always add one more and so these numbers they don't run out because it's always a way to get a another big number. So already, the ancient Greeks are beginning to worry about this and they can see that these numbers can go on forever but. Does that really mean that infinity exists or there's just this sort of possibility ov- ever-larger things So already, the ancient Greek is getting very worried about the idea of whether infinity is a real thing or just some sort of idea. And in a right through to Galileo Galileo's worrying about this many people think that infinity is somehow something to do with in that we humans shouldn't question whether infinity exists only gold canoe infinity. So it is sort of being very troubling thing for for for generations and generations, and so what is infinity I mean is it just a concept that symbolizes that we can go on forever it isn't can't be an actual number because as you just pointed out, you could always add one to. So then there's infinity and then there's infinity in one. Well I think that. Initially it is the idea. All something that however much you counted as always one more left that you haven't counted and therefore that keeps on happening. You should weeklong regard this thing as being infinite but. I think there was a real extraordinary breakthrough that happened at the end of the nineteenth century where a mathematician realized that this wasn't just something that we couldn't conceive of that. Actually there was a way to understand infinity out to realize that in some sense, it is a number and not just one number, but but many numbers, there are infinitely many different sorts of infinity a for me. This is one of the most exciting moments in mathematics where suddenly a mathematician Georg Cantor in Germany the end of the nineteenth century gives us the tools to count to infinity and beyond does lie said. About getting and making that rather mundane sounding subject come to life in a very interesting way is marcus too. So Toy, he is a professor of mathematics at the University of Oxford and author of the book how to count to Infinity. So Marcus e said earlier that the the Babylonians used a number system that was based sixty in that that is why we have sixty seconds in a minute sixty minutes in an hour and that's worked out pretty well but there's nothing else that's base sixty there's nothing else that's hung around from the Babylonians. Except the clock. Is Very. Interesting because I think that's one of the reasons the Babylonians were drawn to sixty is that it's a highly visible number. So sixty is divisible by two, three, four, five, six. Chain Twelve fifteen thirty. So the high visibility of this number makes it very adaptable for doing calculations and in fact, ten is a bit of a rubbish number because it's only divisible by two and five, and one of the reasons probably drawn ten is because if you look at your hands, we have ten fingers so they were useful to count on. And I suspect if you go to the simpsons if you see the characters in the simpsons, only have eight fingers. Except, for God who has ten fingers? So probably, the simpsons are probably counting base eight. Robin. Base ten. So lots of different cultures choosing different bases the Babylonians Obey Sixteen Webbie's ten, the Mayans were base twenty. So they would count all the way up to nineteen before they kicked into one zero and twenty and what about computers will lay just with two digits zero and a one in something we call binary. So there are a lot of choices for how you represent numbers and each one has its own different quality to it. And so numbers the numbers that we use to count. Also have taken on other things and I know you talk about like lucky numbers were. Worded somebody apply lock to numbers and unlucky numbers like thirteen. How did those two concepts come together? That's interesting again because it's very specific to different cultures. Numbers are close to names. So will not be used because they sound too much like death, for example, thirteen. Why is that? One unlucky that one seems to be quite hard to trace the origins of why thirteen particularly is unlucky the Habsburg related to the thirteenth disciple betraying Christ. There's also in Nordic Mythology, the thirteenth member dinner who is always being somehow unlucky. But seven for example, why is seven often considered a lucky number? Again seems to relate perhaps to looking up into the night sky because at the time that we could just observe things with our I am not our telescopes a we sold that there were seven heavenly bodies in the sky, and that seems to be one reason why perhaps a seven post become a lucky number but for example, I was very struck when I was on a plane just recently and My favorite number is the number seventeen is the number of I play for my football team and I was struck there wasn't a row seventeen and I tweeted this just before we took bizarre why does this Play. not have a number seventeen row and when I landed switched on my phone again, I had a lot of tweets from Italy saying well, that was probably an old talia plane because in Italy seventeen is an incredibly. Number why will be writer in Roman numerals X. The one one which is an Anagram of vic see which means only have lived, which means I am now dead. So seventeen for an Italian is an incredibly unlucky number because associated with death. One of the really interesting things about numbers that I saw one of your videos is the demonstration you did of where so imagine a chessboard, checkerboard. And in the upper left hand corner put one grain of rice in the square in the upper left hand corner and then. In the next square you doubled it, you put two and then you next where you doubled it and you put four and you doubled it every time. And so by the time, you get to the end, which has sixty four squares later. You. Had A lot of rice. The point about doubling is that if you look at those grains of rice on the chessboard. The first row who looks very small I mean you've got badly enough rice in the first eight squares for a little piece of Sushi but the parents doubling is that it grows fos very quickly and so by the end I mean there's a very famous story that the. Inventor of chess was offered any prize by the King of India and wanted these grains of rice to be put on the chessboard and the King of India that was a very. Small price to pay for such a wonderful game. But then by the time they try and put all the rice on the chessboard. They realize that by the end, there's more grains of rice than ever been grown on the surface of the planet will be needed to actually bill all sixty four squares. What's the number? It's two to the power sixty, four minus one the other interesting example about this that I found so interesting was. Why we don't have vampire. Why we don't have vampires on the earth is because of. Potentially because of this same mathematical principles. So explain that a vampire needs to feed on another on a human absorb every month. For example, when they bite that human that human becomes a vampire named the next month you got to 'em pause that need to feed on humans. So every month you've got vampires donning and it only takes about thirty three months I think for the whole of the planet to. Become Vampires. So that's show us the power of doubling that. If you double the number of Bemba's each month, you will wipe out the whole population of the planets within about thirty three months well, that really does help explain the spread of this virus because it does seem when you just kind of step back and look while how how could this virus that started supposedly in this little town in China. Sweep the entire planet. So quickly and it's basically what you just said. Exactly. So I'm. In exactly the same principle as. The vampires that is very quick if you'll giving the virus to say just to other people we talk about this thing, the reproduction rights, the number of people that somebody with ours his lightly to to give the virus to very quickly. You'll start to get this exponential growth and those earning graphs that we saw didn't look terribly frightening and it's just like the grains of rice on the first of the Chessboard you've got one hundred, twenty, eight grains on the square that. Doesn't look terribly frightening but very quickly this escalates and that's what we've been seeing with these graphs of the virus as it begins to take hold and spreads The exponential growth really quickly starts to take hold on the population, and that's why we needed to intervene to try and stop in some way this exponential growth of the virus sprint and we've been pretty unsuccessful at that. It seems as if that doubling or that exponential growth has a momentum that was very difficult to stop. It is very difficult and what you get after wall is is. The fact that the virus starts to be unable to find somebody who hasn't had the virus already, and this is something that people talk about herd immunity that a while A. Van. PAS wandering around an only meeting vampires and can't find any humans. Left to bite. So. Sometimes, this is what happens with the virus that you get. Enough people who got it who actually means that eight can't spread any further. The other way to intervene is with vaccine where you then. Caused people to have immunity because they take the vaccine and that's obviously a very powerful way that we've been created to crime to stop the spread of viruses in this exponential way. But when you think about something like counting I mean it's just so basic. So simple we learn it when we're very very young, but but there's a lot to it and it's interesting to hear. Kind of the whole history of it and why and how it's so important. Marcus Dassault Toy has been my guest. He is a professor of mathematics at the University of Oxford and the name of his book is how to count to infinity. And there's a link to that book at Amazon and the show notes appreciate you being here. Marcus thanks. Great that was useful. A lot of people believe in things that other people don't. Things like bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster, ufo's conspiracy theories, and for some of these things, there is some pretty strong evidence that they're not true or that they don't exist or at least there is a lack of evidence that they do but still people hold onto their beliefs for their own personal reasons why? Colin dickey decided to look into this. Colin is a cultural historian and author of the book, the unidentified mythical monsters, alien encounters, our obsession with the unexplained a Colin. Hi, thanks for having me on. It does seem that that we as humans are drawn to these unexplainable things. So sort of in the way that we're compelled to slow down and look at a traffic accident but why is that why are things like UFO's and bigfoot? Why are these so interesting to so many people Yeah I mean I think this is a pretty innate part of human culture and a I mean we all kind of. Are Fascinated with the unexplained or you know stuff that is just kind of just out of the reach of of our human comprehension and I think for some people that that fascination takes the form. Maybe of religion sort of contemplating the divine I think other people takes takes the form of mainstream science. This idea that it's true there's still a lot. We don't really know about the the universe or the oceans or the climate or stuff like that, but there seems to be this kind of third. Way which is the idea of like the fringe, the stuff that's kind of on the edge of what's acceptable for human culture. So I went in search of crypt IDs, which is the catch, all term for bigfoot and the Loch ness monster and the Macabre and UFO's in aliens, and then you know the lost continent of Atlantis in La Mirada these grouping of things that are kind of outside the bounds of science even though they sometimes kind of Mimic or borrow a little bit from scientific inquiry and they. They remained compelling even long after many of them have been scientifically debunked one way or the other. So how is that? How can something be compelling when it's been proven to be untrue? Years ago I used to pick fights with people on facebook who had you know post conspiracy theories and I would. You know try and just correct them by giving them the factual truth and. If you've ever done that you find out that that actually rarely works that that what's driving people to cling to these ideas usually has very little to do with the facts, his as usually operating on some much deeper kind of fundamental level, and there's kind of primal belief that that these stories meet for them and so with the stuff as I look back in the history and the kind of where these things came from and how they evolved over the past one hundred and fifty years or so. I kept seeing that that wasn't just that they were Kooky myths or conspiracy theories or whatever I saw the ways in which a lot of them. Tapped into a kind of primal need we had for one way or another and provided A. Way of explaining the world in a way that was sort of comforting or enticing, and that this actually mattered more to people than whether or not the story was actually true or false. So how many people? Maybe you don't know the exact number but but generally speaking how many people actually believe that the earth has been visited by aliens from another planet. It's a very large number you know over twenty percent of Americans believe. Either that aliens have visited. The Earth in the past, maybe during the time of ancient Egypt or maybe during our lifetimes. So we're talking about tens of millions of people who have this belief in so. It's a big number and I think that when we're quick to dismiss this stuff because we do think it's you know maybe a little little bizarre or. You know clearly fictitious or whatever, but it has a huge impact on our cultural sub-conscious one way or the other. You point out. That the belief in a lot of these things has escalated in the last few years, right Right, there's a study that comes at Chapman University every year with a survey Americans on these beliefs and and. Do whatever you can watch these numbers sort of slowly climbing up over the past couple of years which I think. Again know when I look at these things I think that they are doing more than just giving people. A supernatural belief to cling to what they seem to be doing is addressing certain needs that we have and maybe providing a little sense of comfort during increasingly chaotic and random times and I think you know as our world seems to be more and more you know out of control by some measures you know and things are more and more chaotic and frenetic particularly conspiracy theories and but also these kind of beliefs in encrypted or you know. The Lost Continent of Atlanta these can be way of kind of asserting some kind of order in sort of clinging to an idea that gives people a little bit of solace. I guess. But it would seem to me that believing in aliens or believing in you know conspiracy theories pick whichever one you want is not comforting to know that we've been invaded by creatures from another world doesn't make me feel better. Doesn't make me feel better but there's a perverse way in which this works in the late seventies and eighties is really the rise of this idea of alien abductions right that people have been. Secretly abducted in the middle of the night, and you know aliens have done things to their bodies in various ways and then drop them back off and wipe their members. So they have no no idea of what's going on and it yeah. That's a scary thought. That's that's scary to compliment a con contemplate and I think I would be I'd be pretty freaked out if I felt that that had happened to me but you know when you start to read the the accounts of these people who who claim that they'd been abducted by aliens what you see is that A lot of cases it starts with somebody just feeling. Off In some ways physically sick in ways that can't be diagnosed maybe. Fatigued, tired and away they they can never really overcome. They can't get enough rest and then somebody comes along and says, well, the reason that you feel this way is that you were abducted by `lions and the aliens did something to you and and that's that's what you're left with now. That still a scary thought. But for somebody who is his dealing with something that they literally have no answers for suddenly even something as far fetched as. Scary as alien abduction, it gives them it gives them an answer. May. Be The wrong answer but but it's an answer and so. So, that's a way in which something that seems like. It might be actually scary can actually be a little comforting and you see that again and again with these. People who write on these forums, these alien abduction forms they talk about how badly they felt, and then they figured out, they had been abducted by aliens, and now they had found a community and they've found a sense of purpose, and now they kind of go on these message boards and talk to other people with similar. Afflictions and fatigue, and they can all kind of be a community together and I I do think that gives people a little comfort. Sort of make sense to me is this whole belief in extraterrestrials or big foot or whatever it is is this a symptom of modern society or did people believe this stuff three, four, five, hundred, two, thousand years ago you know five, hundred, six, hundred years ago you imagine the world. From, the perspective of maybe somebody in in Europe or north. American. You have this you have this picture of the map where some places are very detailed and you know the cities that you know and recognize, and then at the edge of the map, there will be just blank space and maybe they'll be a picture of a you know a monster of some kind an old say something like you know here, there be dragons right that that that there are these things at the edge of the map that we can't explain and that that these monsters actually define the edge of the map in a sense and and that that's sort of common kind of medieval conception of the world that. Is being replaced in the in the eighteenth and into the nineteen th century by a better understanding of. Know of animal biology and taxonomy the classification system, which you know the the kingdom order genus species. Forget, which order those go in, but you know what I'm talking about. And and kind of a better sense of what the globe looks like and at a better documentation through colonialism our exploration of whatever that that sort of the map is now kind of fully filled in those medieval monsters either they've been proven to be. False figments of the imagination or they've been given names. So the monstrous cracking of the see becomes the giant squid. So the rise of cryptic words of bigfoot, the Loch Ness Monster. Happens around this time, it happens when the world has been filled in, and there are no more edges at the map and the monsters that used to define the edge of the map have all been dispelled and classified and it's almost as though. Even, knowing that that stuff was was false and inaccurate, we need that kind of sense of some kind of frontier or some kind of edge and on the other side of the edges something you know mysterious and strange and I think. What I found in and following the history of some of these things is that time and time again People are looking for that thing. kind of right on the edge of the border lands right on the other side of the of the margins, an alien or or bigfoot. So you said that twenty percent roughly of the American population believes that aliens have been to this planet. that. Means that eighty percent of people don't believe it. So how did the twenty percent? Reconcile, or process the fact that they are way outnumbered in their belief that eighty percent of people believe that what they believe is is not true. or or maybe they just they just don't care I. think it runs the Gamut. There are a lot of people for whom IT IS A. Possibility, but probably, not something they take too. Seriously I mean people who maybe just decide to spend the weekend camping with their friends and think, oh, well, why don't we put out a motion detector camera and maybe we'll get lucky maybe we'll see sauce watch out there but don't. Devote their lives. I found other people who take it very seriously. And I don't know that they think the rest of us has not, but I think they. They have found communion with like minded people and a sense that they have a secret knowledge that doesn't belong to the rest of the world. Let's talk about a couple of specifics like. The one that one that really confuses me is Atlanta's because there isn't a whole lot of evidence. I don't think that that there is this continent that just disappeared in this civilization was lost but boy, there are people who really believe it Atlantis. Comes about it starts with Plato the Greek. Philosopher. But he kind of positive Atlantis more as a kind of philosophical exercise. It's a sort of a supernatural place that he just sort of is using to make a point about about philosophy and human civilization. and. Then it's more or less forgotten until until the eighteen seventies when this Guy Ignatius Donnelly. Who is a failed businessman and a former congress person. Writes this book Atlantis where he posits. That Plato was actually talking about a literal civilization with an archaeological record. Culture and civilization and art, and all these things that we can find traces of and it becomes A. Big Bestseller and people really gravitate to this idea. And I think for me one of the things I find you know if I had to hazard a guess as to why became so popular it does strike me that it happens again in that time when. The map had been really filled in, and so people wanted something they want to believe in something that is. Out of reach from modernity, they WANNA believe in in a place that will never be you know it'll never be colonized. There will never be flights out of there. You'll never be able to go there on vacation you'll never. Be sent there on business will always be this place that has just outside in this other place in and that I think is very alluring and tantalizing idea that kind of supersedes any. Anybody sense that you need actually have historical proof before you can believe this thing. Are there any of these unexplained things that you find really interesting or that that are unexplained and then get explained that They're figured out. Oh, that's what that really was. Okay. So you know when we think of when we think of when we think of. SASQUATCH and Yeti and stuff like that. It's usually like a footprint or maybe it's a grainy photograph or maybe it's an eyewitness account from a sketchy guy or something like that. There's usually not a lot of firsthand direct evidence and I assume that was the case until I discovered the story of the Glouster Sea Serpent and the gloster sea serpent the early eighteen hundreds shows up outside of Cape Ann Massachusetts is described as anywhere from fifty to one hundred feet long with a body the diameter of like a a beer barrel. So pretty big animal and it wasn't just seen by one person it wasn't just seen once it was seen by dozens if not hundreds of people. Over the course of like a week or two on this thing hung out in in the bay. Visible from shore. Visible from people who were out on boats and a lot of people saw it and a lot of people were able to describe it in the exact same way. People would come out from Boston on the weekend to take a look at it like Shamu seaworld. It was like something you could just go and see, and I think it's really fascinating to me that that the gloster sea serpent never gets the celebrity presence that that bigfoot or the Yeti or the Loch ness monster does when I think objectively you got to say, well, there's a lot more. Sightings of this. Regular predictable sightings of this creature then than some of the more famous ones and so what was it well so it's it's a fascinating story. So at the time you know saw this thing everybody's like, okay. Well, we definitely you know this is definitely a thing we should figure out what it is. So great of biologists and scientists from Boston get tasked to try and discover what this is and. They're you know they take a bunch of David's from eye witnesses and they put together their theory and then while they're working on it, this baby is found the baby serpent specimen is found around the beach. Somewhere a local farmer manages to kill it and then delivers it to these scientists and says, look I. Think this is just the baby version of the sea serpent and so and so they. Sort of oddly shaped sort of looks like a snake, but it has these weird ridges that they've never seen before and they think, okay, this is this is just the. Juvenile form of what we've seen it's only four feet long, but it would probably have grown to fifty feet if whatever if fitted matured so they give it a give it a scientific classification they they slotted into, you know the kind of tax comical system and and kind of wipe their hands and say great we're done. We have discovered a new species and that's that's the only. That's the only specimen that's ever found then years later, another biologist takes a look at it because it's taxidermied and kept on display in a museum takes look at any says, you know this is not a new species. This is an ordinary snake that has a very bad case of rickets and kind of debunks the idea that they had found a baby serpent in on his able to sort of demonstrate that it's just. A disease snake with a lack of vitamin D. so so that's the that's sort of the end of the story as far as most people are concerned, but in my mind. While I'm like, yeah. Okay. So that was that was a mistake to treat that. Rickett Rickety snake as as a new species. It doesn't really answer the original question, which is what it all those people see through the course of that month of August and I think we we still don't really have an answer for that. Well, I've always believed a lot of this is because it's human nature to fill in the gaps. We don't like unfinished story. So if we see lights in the sky, we think well, maybe that could be creatures from another planet if we see something fuzzy in the distance in. The Woods in. It looks really big will maybe that's bigfoot and that there is this tendency to want the whole story, and if you don't get the whole story, you fill in the whole story but it it does make for interesting beliefs and interesting ideas. Colin dickey has been my guess to the name of his book is the unidentified mythical monsters, alien encounters, and our obsession with the unexplained. You'll find a link to his book in the show. Notes, thank, you Colin thank you so much for having me on this been great. A lot of online daters should probably change their profile picture. A study found that a full body shot can more than triple the amount of messages you get. Fees just turn out to be a bad idea. Especially, if you're a man those who use them experience in eight percent drop in activity. It it doesn't say much about your social life if you can't find someone else to take a picture of you. Simply taking a photo outside can lead to a nineteen percent increase in messages for men because they're putting in some extra effort. According to e harmony other great conversation starters with your date include photos that indicate your interests like travel exercise or theatre. So put a little extra thought into what picture you post and see if things don't get better and that is something you should know and this is that point in the program where I typically ask you to leave a rating or review of this podcast on whatever platform you listen to. It really helps us and thank you for doing that I'm Mike carruthers. Thanks for listening today to something you should know.

Loch Ness Monster University of Oxford Marcus professor of mathematics Colin dickey facebook Europe Mike carruthers Boston Atlanta UFO Atlantis Intel India Dassault Y. S. K. H. E. L. India Georg Cantor Italy
Eu Tava L #114 - MAIS AMIGOS BIZARROS DO RICARDINHO (com Ricardinho Lilja)

Eu tava la

39:25 min | 1 year ago

Eu Tava L #114 - MAIS AMIGOS BIZARROS DO RICARDINHO (com Ricardinho Lilja)

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1113. Even Celebs Have Trouble Potty Training Their Pets - Actress Nancy Dassault Guests

Animal Radio

1:19:02 hr | Last month

1113. Even Celebs Have Trouble Potty Training Their Pets - Actress Nancy Dassault Guests

"Celebrating the connection with our pets. This is animal radio featuring veterinarian. Dr debbie white groomer joy. Villani news director. Lorie brooks and now from the red barn studios here are your hosts. Hal abrahams and judy francis friend. Grab your animals. Bring him around the radio because they like to show to the ones that are around us. They're actually sleep. I know they come in here just to take a nap. Pretty sure they like the show on the show today. Nancy do salt will be joining us. Do so i'll do so okay do so. We'll be joining us in just a few minutes. She was too close for comfort. She was on about you. She mad about you is she. She's been around and she has a Brand new dog a small dog. I understand she'll be telling us about it. I think she has some potty training problems to we're going to find out because you know even the big celebrities have troubles with also we're gonna be talking to a young lady whose heads up organization called feeding pets of the homeless and you. That isn't that great. I mean you see people around that are homeless and they often have pets with him and sometimes you think the just give some money because they have a pet with them. And there's a lot of controversy about it but this organization finds food and veterinary care four. These homeless animals that are hanging out with the homeless people. Because it's both homeless but they have each other. That is awesome. Yeah let's see how about we go to the phones and through your calls right now. Dr davis it. Shouldn't it the bit chomping at the bit thank you. It's always easy to reach out to. Dr debbie joy villani its toll free from the free animal radio app for iphone and android so download that now we go to tracey. Hi tracy how are you doing. I'm fine how are you great. What part of the country are you calling from. I'm calling can from the state of california. The beautiful central coast gerard randy. Gotta love it. So what's what's going on with you and your animals. well i have a About eight and a half year old. Black labrador retriever. That was recently. I noticed a lump on his throat. when i was petting him it wasn't noticeable when you put your hands around him and i took him to the vet he went ahead and Didn't aspiration on it couldn't get anything. We decided to wait about a month to see if it was if it were growing or what was happening. And i took them back and yes it had grown a slight amount so they decided to remove it and when they removed it. It came back as A thyroid carcinoma. And so i'm trying to do some research. And i'd really like some information from dr debbie Regarding this if she has seen this at all in her practice. I'm not being able to find a lot of information. about it Also some information online. But not a ton. I do have been scheduled to go to. Uc davis for further evaluation. Wehab done a baseline x ray at the vet that has not moustapha that we can see from the x-ray to his lungs and we also did a baseline Blood test for his thyroid I think at a one point four which was low to normal. Yeah okay all right and is he feeling. Good other ways is he. Having any other changes trouble feels great. He's still that you would. You would never know that anything was wrong. He's very active eating. Well symptoms that. I can see that i read online of anything which suspect anything. It was just one of the same. Put my hands on and and felt something was like. What's that you know. And i thought it was. Maybe as adam's apple or something like that. And it's like ooh moves so thyroid tumors not as communist some other types of tumors that we do see but And i would say most of the dogs. That i've diagnosed thyroid tumors with dogs have been beagles Because that's a breed highly represented so beagles boxers and i'd see golden retrievers are the most common ones that i've seen it in not that it can't happen in other breeds. It's just a little bit more common in those others still yet. And he of knowledgeable in the neck area would be suspect for this and the good is that yes sounds like you got it small. You gotta before. He's got a lot of other symptoms. But the bad is that the overwhelming majority of these thyroid based tumors are malignant and approximately ninety percent of them will be either a carcinoma or an ad no carcinoma. So that means that it could have the potential to metastasized to the lymph nose to the lungs. I'm glad that they did do some chest x rays Because we can pick it up sometimes at the very time we diagnose this lump in the neck and we sometimes see in about thirty to thirty to forty percent of the dogs though actually have it in their lungs already. Okay so there's other line of treatment. I mean what do they mostly do radiation on this or depends. It really depends in If you're going to uc davis the great thing about that is there are some A lot of newer testing that help us to identify. What mode of therapy is going to be the best. So there's tapes genetic tests that they can do. Oh and that can help to decide whether or not this type of tumor is maybe more amenable to radiation therapy chemotherapy. But there is actually a whole lot of things so we do surgery and if we don't get good margins a lot of times we'll follow that up with radiation therapy which is kind of similar to people where you know irradiate the bed. The area of where the tumor is removed. And that's good if we don't get all of the tumor or if we have an incomplete removal so the path report from your other. Veterinarian will be important and if even they may even ask for samples Or a slide from that biopsy so they can do some of their own testing on that as well but yes okay. Are there any. Are there any particular questions that you can think that i should ask. There's so the things that i would ask me be in advance i do. You want some of those samples from the biopsy because that does take a little process to get that together and obviously it's removed already so anything if they need to any analysis on that you might see if you need to Get that from your other lab. So that'd be when they find out if you need that. And i would also make sure in addition to raise if we want to try to really know where we're at kind of go into things they're going to have to do lab work so important thing that we look at as the calcium level with a thyroid tumors because that can actually be an indicator of some of the symptoms that we might have as well as the behavior of that Calcium can be a problem as well. So i don't know if you're that did all these things but that would be one thing to anticipate they're going to need to do blood work. They're going to probably want to sample the nearby lymph nodes so that come. In from the neck area might be In the shoulder area the pre scapula area or the men dealer lymph nodes and they may want to take a needle biopsy or they may want to take us a full surgical biopsy of that to evaluate. If we've got any evidence of spread in that in that area so yeah. I think you get your ducks in the row in. You know anything that they need in advance. Have that with you. Copies of xrays. If possible the biopsy report or at least some of the samples of the supplies would be helpful and then for for me as far as what. I like to ask as far as what a lot is kind of like what your goals are to. 'cause there's pros and cons with these different types of therapies And if surgery is already been done first thing would be to ensure that they do or don't want to do any secondary revision surgery if they're happy with how the surgery report came. Do they wanna do a follow therapy in the immediate area to treat their and if not Are we gonna go with full know. Chemotherapy and i think you have to kind of weigh the pros and cons of things with all of that. Okay because it. It really is a little bit dependent on Expectation of time cost with radiation therapy. That is something that is such just one time treatment. It has to be repeated usually daily for a long period of time. So you're making sure that you have the logistics to be in the area or to have your pet stay at the facility and same thing with chemotherapy. There's going to be a lot of follow up and repeated treatments in finding out what the schedule of that is going to be okay. it's well as the different chemotherapy. Drugs different cost factors without okay and animals reaction to chemotherapy and radiation is is a little bit different than ours is not quite as difficult for them is that true or is that a lot of folks are really scared chemotherapy with paths. And yes i would share that if that was your opinion Animals tolerate chemotherapy. Better in some ways. Because what we go for people's we go for an absolute cheer so we hit our human patients with really high doses of chemotherapy agents. And we're trying to squash the cancer at all Sometimes we can't do that and we might do that in pets if it's a feasible Disease control but otherwise we go for quality of life so I found a my one of my own. Dogs was under chemotherapy for a bone cancer years ago and the first treatment she was a little nauseous was a little sick and active goofy but the follow up treatments. She did really well. And i was so thrilled. We give her six months extra that she had with us. And i don't regret that at all. And i i think going through it myself. I encourage people to not right off that possibility. Because you know it's a hurdle and you know. I think our dogs and cats are a lot more sturdy than sometimes we give them credit for their other fighters. Well he's part of our family. So i will do everything i can to make sure. And and he's a big dog. He's a big lad. He's about one hundred six pounds and i really. Yeah and and i know that that because of his size his life expectancy anyway would probably be maybe twelve years. Most of my labs have been around until they're fourteen but If i could. If i could keep them three more years if that's the possibility of his catching the soon enough and and i'll do what i need to do. In order to try to make that happen quality of life. I agree with you quality of life and he has to be happy. Yeah yeah well thank you. You've been very helpful. I appreciate it. We wish you the best of luck. Yes absolutely keep us posted. Tracy thank you very much. Thank you for calling tracy's calling from Royal guerande listening to abc. Ninety six five nine twenty am this irving animal. Radio is brought to you by red barn. Now listen up in just a couple of seconds. I'm gonna give you a promo code to save ten percent off your next purchase in fact all of your purchases over at red barn. Now these guys not only support animal radio and get behind the health of your pet there now in the business. Yeah your favorite dog treat. Company is now selling kibble. And i'm looking at the side of the package with the ingredients. The first five ingredients feature real animal protein. That's how you know it's good. It's gonna satisfy your dogs carnivore cravings. That's because your dog. Well they love meat and these guys red barn. They love your dog. Now get ready to save ten percent any time you over to their website. Just use the promo code animal. That's all one word animal radio and you'll get ten percent off your purchase throwing courage to go on over there lady bug. The studio stunned dog love. Is there treats once again head on over red barn dot com and put in animal radio. And you'll get ten percents off your purchase. You're listening to animal radio. Call the dream team now with a free animal. Radio app for iphone and android. You love your dog. Is something bothering him or her. And you can't figure out what it is. Maybe they seem slow or lethargic and maybe they just don't have energy and wouldn't you like your dog to be living their very best life. Pedroia offers a money back guarantee on all of its products. If your dog won't eat it or you don't see the results you want. Just let us know. And we'll make it right totally risk-free what are you have to lose. You can't buy peg joy multivitamins in a story. The only way you can get them is through this unique radio offer and if you call right now learn how to get two bottles free with your order. Turn your dog's life around and make him or her happy camper eight that roy. He said culpepper joy right now. Eight hundred four five one one three five nine eight hundred four five one one three five nine eight hundred four five one one three five nine. That's eight hundred four five one. Thirteen fifty nine agree. The marshall tucker band and forever. You'll always be listening to animal. Radio people up in those pits. You're listening to animal radio if you missed. Any part of today's show visit us at animal. Radio dot com or download the animal radio app for iphone and android general radio celebrating the connection with our pets. And we'll go back to those toll free lines for your calls. The doctor debbie or joey villani or just to check in and say hello from the free animal. Radio app for iphone android and blackberry. How many times. I've gotta tell you this. I mean really i mean. Have you downloaded the app yet. Just do it so hill. Shut up please. Coming up in just a few minutes you did. You actually downloaded it. Like three or four times. Yes i did good for you and grab your friend's phone and download it for them to improve your gas mileage. Not a lot of people know that it's a hidden secret but if it makes you look sexy does make you look sexier okay. I'm downloading right now. Just a few minutes. Nancy salt will be on. She was mariel on too close for comfort. Ted knight's wife. She was also on East to watch that. Show all the time mad about you. Did you see your mad about you. Played what's your name. Mother staples Helen forgot her characters to also. Let's see what else we have coming up. Oh we talked about this about two or three years ago. There's an organization that feeds the pets of the homeless. That's cool. I love that. We're gonna find out what they're doing. I i believe they have one of their eighth anniversary. Give a dog a bone day's coming up so we'll talk to them about that also lady who has a tortoise she's in the britain uk uh-huh and she has this crazy tortoise that apparently is driving her batty keeping her from working as what it is to work. Who knew she's just right around the corner right here. Animal radio plus your calls. Laurie what are you working on over there in the newsroom. Well a lot of us. Use rover dot com to book. You know things for over dot com is expanding some of their services to cats. So get you up to date on that. I understand that they've just received sixty five million dollars in funding from a venture capitalist burns. Yeah that's a lot of faith is now that's a lot over rover. Let kitty takeover on joey. Well you're going to be looking at getting yourself a pet. You may wanna talk to me about you. Know what's the right pet for the right climate for you. You know hot cold warm whatever. Okay let's go to the phones. John calling from new orleans. What's going on with your animal. What he's seeing in the house for the shelter adoptable about three months ago and started him on the hawk worm program and i can't exercise and to the medication and he's got a lot of energy. I don't know if that's connected with us. But i mean he will just let it go just finished cleaning up an enormous. Who is this dog. Job is a german shepherd. He's a smart animal. And i don't know what's going on with okay well in Just to clarify so. He's being treated with four her disease. Which means that he's being treated by the heavy duty. Millar larceny which Helps to kill the adult worms and when that happens pets have to be confined strictly because activity exercise running playing can actually cause those dying worms to lodge and cause blockages in. That can actually cause a fatal event. So that's why that activity restriction is so imperative and being treated for heartworms disease so it can be really tough because you know they get they get anxious they get built up pent up energy so for some dogs. It's appropriate in its cleared with the veterinarian. I will use some tranquilizers and sedatives to kind of help calm them at certain times of the day But beside that your your problem with urinating in the house it would not typically via symptom related to treatment But it's always a great idea to have that urine sample checked with your veterinarian to make sure there's not something going on because if there's not then we're going to focus more on getting kind of back to the core basics with training in anxious or Kind of freaked out. Who has all this energy. That can't go outside. Maybe more prone to eliminating in the house either through urine marking or just soiling in the house so in those instances we really have to do supervised outdoor trips to go to the potty area. And you have to go back and treat them almost like he's a puppy. Were your praised. Take him on a leash. Give them loads of affection. And the occasional treat even for doing that outside and supervision really is key in these situations so if you're missing the the urine accidents in the house You know you can't you definitely can't punish them on those things and the more you can supervise get him outside and give that give reinforcement for the good place that he goes. That's gonna go the furthest here If this is more of a behavioral type problem a okay do you think that medication can cause their head or fallout not typically But as far as if you're in an area we have a lot of heart worm. You very likely have other types of parasitic diseases. So fleas would definitely be up everything he doesn't have any other. Okay how's healthy. Well i mean as far as You know with the hair loss The i guess. I can't say a whole lot about that's hard to see it over the television. I don't think it's related to your pets. Medication now certainly can also be pets that turned to themselves if they have cooped up anxiety and they can actually self traumatize in that can cause a hair loss. Actually have sores and that would be something typically you would be observing and then potentially seeing him that doing that so if you're not witnessing that it might be less likely for that you're listening to animal. Radio call the dream team now with the free animal. Radio app for iphone and android. He don't forget you can get your fix of animal radio anytime you want with the animal radio app for iphone and android download it. Now it's made possible by fear free pets. Taking the pet petrified visit them at fear free happy homes dot com to forget where i am animal. Radio animal radio. I love that comes to on animal radio. Spay neuter your pets. And we're going to be a you love. your dog. is something bothering him or her. And you can't figure out what it is. Maybe they seem slow lethargic and maybe they just don't have energy wouldn't you like your dog to be living their very best life. Pedroia offers a money back guarantee on all of its products. If your dog won't eat it or you don't see results you want. Just let us know. And we'll make it right totally risk-free what are you have to lose. You can't buy peg joy multivitamins in a store. The only way you can get them is through this unique radio offer and if you call right now we'll learn how to get two bottles free with your order. Turn your dog's life around and make him or her a happy camper eight. They're right boy. Ohio he said. Call peg joy right now. Eight hundred four five one one three five nine eight hundred four five one one three five nine eight hundred four five one one three five nine. That's eight hundred four five one thirteen fifty nine. This is an animal radio news. Update brought to you by fear. Free fear free takes the pass out of petrified and puts the treat into treatment to learn more and find a certified fear free veterinary professional near you visit. Fear free pets.com. I'm laurie brooks rover. Dot com is expanding since the seattle based online shop for dog sitting and walking has seized another sixty five million dollars from its investors to continue their fast growth. They bought out their biggest competitor. Dog vaca- earlier this year now rover dot com plans to continue expanding in the us and canada even around the world. They're saying as well as introducing some new indifferent pet services rover. If you don't know built its name with overnight dog sitting services but more recently. They've had a daytime services and it's booming dog. Walking in daytime drop in services are growing super fast as well these days along with one more surprising feature cat sitting and drop in services. So what's like a typical cat name. You have rover and fido for dogs. But fluffy call it. Rover dot com though. But they didn't focus on cats in the beginning obviously but when people started using the site in registering their cats as a breed of dog They kind of got the message and now they're adding cats to their repertoire. The uk's royal college of nursing is getting into the animal therapy. They say they want to boost the use of animal therapy and hospitals because pets can relieve suffering in aid in healing and make their patients happier but most hospitals in the country. Do not allow animals on their premises so the nursing union wants this to change and fast nine out of ten nurses are backing this move saying patients with depression and other mental health type problems as well as mental medical problems or physical problems can benefit. Two-thirds said that contact with animals could speed physical recovery and other research. You've heard all of this shows having a dog around improves mood and even calms those with dementia. The union is going to go ahead and release their guidelines later this year giving hospitals advice on introducing animal therapy to their patients. Get more breaking animal. News anytime at animal. Radio dot com. This has been an animal radio news. Update brought to you by fear free. The veterinarian isn't typically thought of as your pets favorite place to go with fear. Free that all changes to learn more and find a certified veer free veterinary professional near you. Visit fear free. Pets dot com radio. Baby live at the red barn studios. You're listening to animal radio. Here's how in judy amit Head on over to rebecca. Believe its revenge. Is this rebecca regina. What's going on regina my question. A we have who but the youngest one he's made me sleazy and we got him a pitch up like a month ago he was. He was the bishop for months. He was a baby and he never gonna hotel. That was the reason why they should near not able to santa so he he was a good price on it but i really like him because nobody was going to take him home. Nowhere so My question is if you're going to go out there ever. Because i try to keep him fully syndicate. I try to keep him on the stand most of the time for him not to be shoes leaning against the wall. So i've been telling me about it. Okay so just i understand. He has not grown his tail feathers. In or is he witnessed him plucking them out some some as soon as they tag going up he just dragged them out in house with other birds or is he by himself. He was by himself. determine what. He wasn't a official right now. We have more than one at home. So he's socializing with other various now so he's already through these kitchen leader by little okay because because that would be one big thing now. I do see some juvenile african grays that tend to do this in captivity in sometimes just when they're stressed in kind of these pet stores situations it's kind of what they do just to kinda socialize and kind of preen each other but it can get excessive and it actually can also be triggered by some anxiety problems too. So i like the idea that you're trying to find him things to do trying to socialize him But i'm also a little bit concerned because in some cases we can see excessive tail feather chewing and plucking. When there's actually problems medically going on down there so you can actually be pain inflammation or even problems with the preen gland little kind of gland over the tail base area. So if you haven't had him checked by a vet an avian veterinarian i would certainly start without first because anything you try to do behaviorally correct this. We're not going to get anywhere. If there's something medically we need to address. Oh because i keep kicking and human. I don't see any any like bleeding and you know because some being percent about it. So i check and everything is dry is no is leading or it's not ninety fiction so though i keep him bc police inside dictate to win during the time that he's in the cage and used to be doing better now but i'm gonna follow for what you say everyone to see what they considered up. Don't and like how more than one. Actually i was. Dying to find a where i can What do i need to do to check on day six because they come more than why. So i really wanna know have how many of us have so okay. Yeah definitely in. I'd say for for this guy is you know interest I wanna make sure that he's staying active to so you've got some things for him to do but there there's also ways you can hide the food in his cage to keep him occupied and kind of going back to this feather picking birds. It's horribly frustrating and becomes really some repetitive behaviors. And and i think a lot of times we just kind of out of the box to keep our birds busy into keep them from picking themselves so as you can kind of hide their food in pieces of balled up paper so that he has to kind of through the paper to get to the food and if the time he spends. Yeah exactly so the time that you know caged bird. We pretty much present the food to them. Sit in front of them and say okay go ahead and eat and it's worrying you know it's very boring. So when he gets be when he's when he's hungry he started the food from the kitchen. I've waited on this task for what i do is i. I him to walk up with the cage and get the food was. He's out of the cage because he's very russian now he's like he's very he's very He's he doesn't mean anything so he sound bite so he's really echinacea for what. I tried to delay shoes. Make him get up. The gauging. Those occasions i keep him understand because most of the times against vacation a corner lying seating procedure. So i never gonna let me tell to throw any fetters. Because he's always against the lord of the case. So i try to keep you on the sun most of the time. Yeah and then one other thing in your vet can kind of help you with us as well as sometimes you know. Africa grays are big birds. Sometimes if their wings are trimmed a little bit overly aggressively it causes them to fall and injure their tail feathers more and that can lead to inflammation in the feather shaft. So that's where. I know you're not seeing anything going on there but this is where the veterinary is might be helpful in determining if there's something like that that we need to back down on a wing trim us some anti inflammatory pain relievers to help. So that's kind of so. There's a lot we can try that avenue. Now you did bring up something about sex thing these guys so there's definitely a blood test. We can do dna blood test to sex birds. They just can't tell from the outside. What sex they are In that to your avian. Veterinarian can help you with that. We either draw blood from one of the veins or even sometimes just from toenail trim but yeah so that can definitely be done in. Might help you kind of understand. Some of your birdies behavior as well so i was hoping that is phenomenal but to why you say in thank you for taking my call him. I love your show. Thank you so much regina we appreciate your call. I did not realize you were bilingual. You're listening to animal radio. Call the dream team now with a free animal. Radio app for iphone and android. Hi attala cable. Today's doug tip so you've done your homework you ready to make an incredible commitment and get yourself a puppy taking on and you thought long and hard about what kind of puppy you want. And how best to pick him or her out or did you. When i met my lady. My last dog was a well behaved. Well socialized grown adult. He passed and she wanted a puppy. I tried to prepare for the storm that was coming. She said she understood. And so a very lucky stroke. My neighbors got together a lab and a shepherd and they had puppies now. This was great because it enabled me to do some incredible preparation and homework. Firstly i could observe the puppies as often as i wanted and when they got older i could take a couple at a time and visit my backyard. So let's talk about picking out puppies you know when you go to the supermarket. You just don't pick up any cucumber and stick it in your car. No it's got to be a beautiful green cucumber crispin. Ripe many people just pick out puppies or dogs just based on how they look but should you ask yourself what personality traits. You'd most like to see in a puppy and whether or not you want a smart dog. The best way to gauge a puppies intelligence is to observe him. Puppies have very short attention spans. They can't focus very long on anything kind of guys. When you're talking about your relationship there onto the next thing before you can snap your fingers so if you observe a puppy that can focus for ten fifteen seconds on an object or anything that's a great sign of intelligence also watch how the puppy interacts with the puppies. Does he leave the pack. Occasionally go off on his own to explore or does he always cling tightly to the group when he plays he dominant or is he submissive and watch how his mother corrects when she doesn't like the behavior usually grabbing him by the neck with their teeth or pushing him down to the ground. That's another important thing to observe how a mother corrects bad behavior in her pups. You're going to be doing a lot of correcting you. Bring your home okay. So to be prepared for your first night your dog is gonna wail and wine all night long. My wife wanted me to return them the next day. He's away from his mother and his litter mates for the first time he scared. He's in a strange environment and he's calling out to them and more than likely he'll do it for a week or two. Do yourself a favor and get a crate and we'll be talking about creighton potty training next time checkout animal radio highlights the good stuff without the bla-bla-bla rows on over to animal radio dot pet. Your dog loves meat. That's why they'll love our new line of red barn dry dog food. Though i five ingredients and red barns land ocean and skyros start with meat fish or poultry schumer to satisfy your dogs carnivore cravings. The added functional ingredients will also help support the health and wellness of your best friend. Your dog loves meat. We love your dog. Learn more about red barn dry dog food at red bar dot com today. paul reiser. And you're listening to animal radio every minute you're here you're not harming someone else i don't know what that needs use it otherwise. Cut it and get out. You're listening to animal radio if you missed. Any part of today's show visit us at animal. Radio dot com or download the animal radio app for iphone and android animal radio celebrating the connection with our pets. And we'll head back to those phones for your questions. It just a couple minutes right here on animal radio. I we're gonna visit with genevieve frederick. She's the president and founder of feeding pets of the homeless. And where are you guys located. we're in carson city. Nevada was that national organization though. And what does your organization do exactly. Well we provide emergency veterinary care and pet food to pet step along to homeless people across the country some in canada and we have a a site in. Is there any controversy. That's around this'll sometimes. There is it mostly comes from people that don't understand that human animal bond that closeness and for the homeless. These are their lifeline to sometimes reality. Sometimes it prevents suicide These animals are non-judgmental. They're so loyal they are adjust the greatest thing for these people that they don't have anything left in their life. This is their companion the their family you know some people think that it's not fair to these animals to be living on the streets at the animals deserve a better life. But you know what when you think about it. These animals are with their humans. Twenty four seven. They're not left home alone for eight hours a day. While they're you know working in the owner comes home and is too tired to play with them. They get to be with their human i. I think it's absolutely pretty good life and that most of these are very social because they're out and about their meeting other animals other people and it is a way for these homeless to be able to connect to other humans because people will stop and say. Oh what a nice dog you have. Do you need food. Do you need water. And it gives them that connects. They don't they are invisible any longer. That pet is that bridge. I hear stories where a homeless people will give up their food. They're just concerned about getting food for their homeless pets. Absolutely we had that is so true they will share whatever they have or give their animal whatever they need before they'll take care of their self and that includes medical care as well. What about that scam. That people were doing. They were sitting out on street corners with with puppies saying needed money for food and they were borrowing the animals just to get sympathy. Seems a little manipulative. Yeah well yeah. Well i'm. I'm sure that that has happened in. It'll probably continue to happen. Because there are just bad people out there in every sect every part of the world. Yeah so how do you get food to the homeless well. We have a donation sites across the country in every state except for one and we there's over four hundred fifty at amaze our hospitals. They're groomers their banks. They're chiropractors their dentist. They collect pet food from their community and from their own clients. That pet food is delivered or picked up by a food bank or a homeless shelter and then it's distributed from there because that's where the homeless and low income are going to get their human food anyway so that's how it's distributed are donation sites have reported to us that they've taken over four hundred and ninety two tons a pet food to these places that distribute the pet food. That's a lot of food. So how do people get food to you. And how do they support you support you financially or they support you by sending food. Well we hope that we. We really don't want people to send us food. We want them to find a donation site in their community. Take the food there. If they wished to donate money so that we can use that money for emergency care and for wellness clinics. They're more than welcome to go to our website. And we have a donation page there. They can donate right there or they can send us checks any way. They want to send us money. We are certainly appreciative. I can say that since two thousand and eight. We've spent over a half a million dollars on veterinary pair. So we we need the money and we don't accept any money from the government so you help with veterinary care as well as food. Absolutely if a homeless person calls this office anywhere in this country we will find them the closest hospital to where they are work with that hospital and we pay the hospital direct visit true over sixty percent of the calls to your organization or from women that is true at you know what this this is my take on that women Have a tendency to be visible homeless because it is so dangerous where they you don't see women panhandling very often. You'll see them in weekly motels in cars in In homeless encampments and they all have a dog with them as protection number one and also as a companion and sometimes they'd gone into homelessness with this pet that that is very true of the calls that we have taken at that turn into emergency cases. Sixty over sixty percent are women but we get calls every day from women looking for shelters that will allow them to go into a shelter with their pet and unfortunately in our country there are far and few between so. We feel that to help These homeless shelters realize the importance of this. We'll ship them a collapsible metal crate free of charge. It becomes their property. They can use it over and over and over again. We've got to get these women in their pets off. The streets is just too dangerous. And what's the website pets of the homeless dot org okay. We'll put links to everything you've heard on today's show or an animal radio dot pet genevieve we salute you. Thank you so much for what you do. An thank you for coming on the show today. Oh my pleasure. We're gonna head back to the phones for your calls next. You're listening to animal radio. Call the dream team now with a free animal. Radio app for iphone and android long. I'm david bellamy development. We're on animal radio your animal. Ooh all of us here. At fido friendly magazine can't wait to get on the road again with our favorite fido. We know that it's just not a vacation without our furry companions by our side start daydreaming now and visit fido friendly dot com to scout out places near and far so you will be ready for your next adventure once. It's safe to travel. That's fido friendly dot com until then stay safe and leave no dog behind you celebrating the connection with our pets. This is animal radio featuring veterinarian. Dr debbie white groomer. Joey villani news director. Lorie brooks and now from the red barn studios here. Your host paul abrahams and judy francis. We're going to head to the phones. They're all ringing to white hot right now for your call dr debbie or to joey villani and this hour. We're gonna talk to nancy salt too so do so do so do so. I don't but you do so do so. Do so. get it right for her. I surely wouldn't want mess it up. Like i've messed up everybody else's name Although that would be a change for me to actually get real embarrassing when you mispronounced smith the other week i thought it was skype. So we're gonna go to your calls in just a couple of minutes lori is going to do a quick check of the news at about twenty twenty five minutes on the plate. There sentence really interesting. There's the first ever recorded photographed. Interspecies bonding between predators. I mean these creditors usually look at each other. And it's like instant kill one goes in for the other but this time their first time ever a picture. Let's go to you right now pay violet. How're you doing fine. How are you good. What's going on in your world. Actually i have a problem with a cat that keeps on going in in my one room. And she's got her own room in her own little three and everything. But i can't let her out because she's got hit by the car twice and then zooms out. She's she's danger. Love hoping in my room and to keep poop in there so now i don't know Someone told me to get miracle stuff to put down. Clean it up. I tried Her oh gosh kitty. Litters went through so many of them. i went back to her old one. Now now Someone told me do like a little rescue remedy in her water. Now i put a couple drops. I don't know how many drops i should put in. But i put like five but now we're seeing something different. She's stressed out so now wondering what kind of cave your. What can i do for her. Okay sue me. Just get this clear. She she stays into worse in. Has how many litter boxes one two. Three four five in one room in one room when location okay. I don't want miss it okay. And then are there other kitties in the home In the other room there's another room. Okay so she does not leave this room. That's not how is she getting to another room in in going inappropriately now. She's doing it in her room in her. Okay yeah all right. So there's other cats and in bad which is doing he's okay. Yeah and it's not malicious. She's not doing it to tell you that she's pissed at she's she's unhappy. She's very unhappy with her situation. Now she only poop out of the box she out of the box in the box. Pooping outside okay. All righty so. This is a little bit kind of odd situation. I'll be honest by because they can't that only lives in one room. She's got a very enclosed small area so she may be hearing things in the other rooms. She may be smelling things. Other cats other people animals going. I in that can be a stressful thing so in some situations cast will just have a complete aversion to their litterbox. Sometimes it's stress related so I liked the idea that you're giving her ample sites but she's still not liking it. She's she's there's something about the litterbox environment that she's not happy with So i would say that. You know. I i would love it. If she had more room in the home that she could call her own. Because because that would be a more natural exploration and the next day we got presence again. We'll let her back in her room or she'll try to go out the door and then we have to catch her before she runs out to the street. Okay all right. So i've tried other stuff for her but it's just it's really hard because they don't want getting hit my car. I don't wanna see things. Dogs love her to death. That either you know well. Your challenge is going to be that it is not going to be what we give her to make her. Stop this. It's going to be how we change things in her kern environment to make her go into the litterbox. So it's really. She's she's like someone at a fair who really doesn't wanna use that porta potty and we'll go crouching the alley because they don't want to go in that dirty porta potty. I'm telling were or something something that's upsetting in that litterbox area. So i like. The idea is betrayed litter changes there may be other things we do. We take the lids off. Litter boxes take may try. We may try other things. In addition to that as far as a regular litterbox for some counts is just too tall So we'll try a lower profile litterbox like it and then one and then like us not just small in size though the size of a litterbox should be one and a half times the length of the cat but we also want a low profile. One that means a low ledge to step over and usually carpet armstrong storage boxes that go under beds for like wrapping paper things like that. Those are nice and low. Now we may say we're going to try something totally alternative in that litterbox besides litter. Now we can try super bowl litter. Most cats prefers scoop bullet style letters. But we may even try other things like. I've had cats that liked to go in dirt or like go in grass outside so we may actually put those items inside her litterbox The other thing i would ask you to put in the litter is a protocol cat attract and it helps to attract draw attention to the litterbox in the katie's wanted to go in that area so that might be one thing to try there And then as far as you know we just need to make sure we're making our kitty as comfortable as possible. So fair moons or helpful She may be a cat. We need to take her to the vet. Talk to the vet and see if she's a candidate for behavioral medications But everything you're describing to me is that she is unhappy about her living situation. She's not doing it despite you she's not trying to get you mad. She's just she doesn't know what to do and this is how she's expressing herself may because when she got hit by the car slice maybe something happen to work and that's one reason why to try the low profile litterbox may be one thing to do. And i don't know the extent of her injuries. But yeah absolutely if she had something down in the pelvic area that can cause pain and so if we have some kind of chronic pain back there you know that's the next thing so so the that too. I would make sure talk to your veterinarian about that. My other other veterinarians giving her glucose me great could actually hunger south on a fence but she goes outside she and she pees in the toilet so she's figured out own Thing and she doesn't want no one enough. we have to keep hers only period. Her casey tells you everything about her. So wow really poopie details here. We got violent. Well i i hope that some help them. You've definitely got kind of a lot of things going on with trying to manage indefinitely. You know you got tree for her. Give her things to do those little ham that you put by the window. So she can look outside In a letter those cat dispensing interactive toys. Treats things for her job plugged in the wall. Also it's a well. Yeah that's it. That's the fear moon diffuser. And that's sent hormone. That has a natural calming effect. So it can help. I don't find a lot of time. It helps tremendously with defecation issues. It's usually more for cats with With elimination issue so they're peeing in inappropriate spots. But you can try. It wouldn't hurt certainly some groups on the outside so and started happening when she got that. Kitty flew to so When i took her in and they said that she wasn't going to live and then finally they did. They said she's fine perfectly fine. I took her back again. Is fine again But now she's doing it just like just go to a window. And i i wanna make a window like she gets to stand up in her window and people give her love just as you know but it's just Now i'm thinking of more. That's she wants attention. She's not defecating for attention. Cats don't do that they don't do that. It's not in the. It's not in their playbook she's defecating for either say a medical reason. She's having pain or that she has she's unhappy with her litterbox environment. So those are the focuses. That i would really don't turn it into human emotion. Cats don't think that way it's really how we can make her happy. You had problems with one cat and you actually ended up putting Carpet the litter instead of litter. She was thrown all over the carpet. And i thought well. God this'll tell her that going on the carpet is okay. But i tried it. I cut up some pieces and putting off and it works. She'll go to get the samples. You just go to the carpet store carpet store and just ask for their old samples or get the old pieces of no. It may cost a little more than litter but if they prefer that substrate then you're training back to the physical location of the box. We wish crest of luck there violet. You're listening to animal radio. Call the dream team now with the free animal. Radio app for iphone and android. Welcome to voice of the animal. The great white shark is the creature most feared by humans. Sharks represent the universal fear of those dangers lurk outta sight. Maybe that's why the name for a group of sharks is i- shark was anything in the water making spastic movement. Treading water there. You go thirty percent of the shark's brain is about sent. Scratch your arms on the rock surfing. Sharks can smell your blood half a mile away and the stories five hundred bc three hundred persians eaten by sharks when their invasion fleet off the greek coast or the one about the sixteenth century. Sailor found completely intact in shark's stomach at that time. Chunks were known by the more benevolent sea dogs. But i doubt that matter do this sailor. Or how about the discovery by zoologist at sand shark embryos attack each other in the womb leaving only the winner to be born. How did the zoologist discover this. He was attacked by an embryo. Dissecting the mother shark though. I'd argue in favor of the embryo is someone is dissecting. His mother in hawaiian myth. God-like shark men are ridiculed when the appear on the beach to warn of sharks in the water. Why would anyone ridicule the warning from god. Like shark man about sharks. Could this really be story about respecting the presence of sharks over a hundred million sharks are killed every year millions for shark's fin soup soup. The shark spins are cut off and they are tossed back into the sea alive and paralyzed to sink to the bottom and drown for soup. What keeps us from showing awe and wonder in the presence. At the biggest predator on the planet if we kill and slurp them all will the universal fear of those dangers that lurk at a site the fear we have projected onto the shark disappear to protect pearl divers. Brahmin priests cast stupefying spells on sharks. If a stupefying spell works brahmin priests and harry potter then let's be stupefied with odd. At these ancient wonders and lead those funds where they belong on the shark visit us at voices of the animal dot com with thanks to the commercial music program at bakersfield college and a better place foundation for voice of the animal. This is ray on cumulus. Start your dog's daily dental routine with red barns new dental treats chewables thoughtfully designed with riches and bruised controlled plaque and tartar. Build up in between your dogs. Dental event visits chewables are natural easily digestible. And your dog will love them. Red bar chewables. The tastiest way to brush your dog's teeth learn more at red barn dot com today. Use the promo code animal radio. You'll get ten percent off your purchase. You're listening to animal radio if you missed. Any part of today's show visit us at animal. Radio dot com or download. The animal radio app for iphone and android. It's animal radio celebrating the connection with our pets. Toll free to reach out. Dr debbie or to joey villani i. We're gonna reach across the pond to michelle hansen. She is where are you exactly. I'm in north london house that he never have steady. I love your accent. I just absolutely love. You actually have a turtle. Is that correct. Oh he's a tool to warn is the difference between a turtle in toward how big is he he's he's about six inches. Long four inches wide. Is this your turn now. It's my daughter's tool just and she went to and then had a balcony don so ahve adopted it. It's come to stay though. I didn't realize that a tortoise was so much work. I thought you just kind of put them in the yard and you'd see them in six months or so. That's what i did. But i have opponent so another near death experience. Today he goes into the pontifical. Get out again. I know he's been in there against because he's come out competent chick. We'd like he's very sensitive. He went back to my door. Talk to live with her but did not setting he just pasted on backwards and forwards in front of a looking at himself and i had to bring him home again. You can say he sounds a lot like a dog loss week. Another don't visits your own the heat so now go on his head wound. It sounds like a regular zoo over there. How do you get any work done. I'm s about ankle frozen in the goldman like dog as well from now. A lot of us think tortoises are kind of slow creatures. Apparently this one's greased lightning Is likely citing. Get to the top of the god maui on looking seconds and who said he's very sensitive. He was given to my door to buy a boyfriend and then they broke up. He wouldn't he wouldn't eat. After your daughter broke up at the boyfriend he could tell. The atmosphere was depressing thing so then. The fed said to impeach syrup to start starting off again so beginning peaches in syrup and he recovered but now he's been moved back to my daughter back here and he's los confidence he will go in the garden. He keeps coming in and out in and out either now but now. He's going to becoming a brave. How'd you build up the confidence in a tortoise. I'll just have to be very patient. And i hadn't been done. July like standing. very fussy. likes dandelions have flowers early reteach. eeo let no little jeb. Lettuce your rose petal he likes he loves cucumber but apparently cucumbers apoptosis too much. Keep up bridge junk food. Two cheeseburgers tortoise chase. But we did a test to see. Because i've got a pond did my god which is the so. We tested him in a big bowl to see if he can actually swim and not seeing like a stone and he did manage to float and he can poke his head up and take a little breath so then we rescued him but he does. I mean i could shed. Can you see me see me. can you know. I can't unfortunately you a picture there. Happy you know it's radio anyway so you're painting a beautiful picture for me i. I'm getting the idea. How does the dog get along with the tortoise. He attacks the dogs the tortoise attacks the dogs ethene rushes toward some bites. That turns quite another self him. He's very aggressive. And he's very fast and all saying he tries to get out all the time. He's an escalator. Just what he does first of all wherever you put in he goes all around the edges of wherever he is to see if there's an escape route and when there is some sort of settles down of it so i'm like oh. My daughter has a mirror that goes down to the floor. He spent his whole time obsessively gained back. Listen forwards attacking this other tortoise in the mariah to bring him back again. So i guess your daughter hates you. Office feels a bit to do not to adopt him and she didn't like the would doctors been permanent so frustrating and i have a garden. She doesn't have gotten likes the garden. I was going to hold him up if you could see him. Because he's coveting chick league. So i know he's been for dangerous swim but he has managed to get out together. Would you recommend people stay away from tortoises as pets just because they're high maintenance very entertaining and then you got to save garden which is safely in with no pond. Your right no problems. It's the problem. That is the big worry. But i think he will drown. But i'm always a bit nervous. Also to fox will come in and carry him away so i thought but not in person so you need to be calm and have a safe gardner. No pond and million that that's fine and he can wonder about endorse. He doesn't hibernate. He s a special very expensive. Uv lighting for the winter. She has turned. Don't agree today. And then all and he has a bedroom so you know if you're prepared for left part. We have a friend who puts that told us in the fridge every winter to hide the vet said madness because it can kill but that's eight years and frigerator for the winter hibernating. I wouldn't recommend it no. I wouldn't either. Have you written a book twitter feed. What's his name is called parker so his twitter feed is at pocket or toys. I think pockets name of a football field and although sure does he actually do the posts or do you. Do you have to help them with the post on twitter. I helped him a bit but he's actually donate for long. He's still going his speed. Okay we will link to it from animal. Radio dot pat. I appreciate you taking time to spend with us to tell us a little bit about parking. Is the most unusual situation i. I didn't realize they were so high maintenance. Say i'm going to sign up. And i'm going to follow him on twitter show Try something or interesting canoe. makes michelle. Take care reaching across the pond. They're literally in the fridge Firmly mistaken the. You know the turtle for the lasagna nita. Fix of the good stuff get more animal radio with the free animal. Radio app for iphone and android. Okay yes so puppy pads are convenient. But sometimes the really gross. That's why ladybugs the animal radio studios don dog uses the brilliant pads self-cleaning puppy bad. It seals away the waste and replaces the dirty pad for us. Brilliant pad keeps the animal radio studios mellon fresh. In fact all we have to do is replace the role once every few weeks. And let me tell you. That's pretty fast and easy to do. I love it and lady bug it. Five paws up. You can learn more about this. Amazing machine over at brilliant pad dot com. This is an animal radio news. Update brought to you by fear. Free fear free takes the pet out of petrified and puts the treat into treatment to learn more and find a certified fear free veterinary professional near you visit. Fear free pets.com. I'm laurie brooks united. Accidentally flew rapper. School boy accused dog that year about this from denver international airport to the wrong city during a layover this month. The rapper said that yeah he was traveling with his dog from missouri had burbank california. But during the layover in denver. The airline mistakenly switched his dog with another dog. So he arrives in burbank. To find someone else's pet seems his dog actually flown on to chicago. He then texted like everybody would do. Wouldn't they texted cnn with his news. Saying my little dog has been moving around since this morning. Proudly has to p and number two all over his cage shaking my head well. The problem is resolved and been resolved and both pets were back with their proper families within twenty four hours speak. Says he's going to sue. It is summer in every year. Local police in animal care. Investigators are called out as you can imagine on hundreds of reports of pets left alone in hot vehicles so wanting to take some action the humane society of greater rochester has kicked off a cute campaign called too hot for spot and it's mostly to address all of the confusion over so many different laws. Their advice is if you do see a pet that's been left alone and vehicle. I call nine one one. Then notify a nearby store manager or a security guard. But they add. Do not get into election or debate with the owner of the car. Should they return. Just tell them. I've call police in. They're on their way and let the people leave if they want. Because at that point you should have already written down their license plate number as well as a description of the car and taking some photos and suck just have long assumed that lions were hard wired to kill leopards onsite and tello wild lioness was caught on camera this month and she was nursing a three day old leopard cub experts around. The world have been shocked at these photos. Saying there is no other recorded case in history. Where a big cat. In the wild has suckled a cub belonging to another species. The photos were captured in. And are the very first evidence of such interspecies bonding between predators. that are normally mortal enemies. There's more going on than us. Humans no they fear that the lioness is that it's not going to have a happy ending. Lionesses go away to have their cups and they come back in eight weeks in reintroduce them to the group or pride so they think if the cub does make it to. The leopard cubs makes it to eight weeks old that he won't survive meeting her family. So it's always the in laws. I'm laurie brooks get more breaking animal news anytime animal. Radio dot com. This has been an animal radio news. Update brought to you by fear free. The veterinarian isn't typically thought of as your pets favorite place to go with fear. Free that all changes to learn more and find a certified fear free veterinary professional near you. Visit fear free pets.com thinking rescuing remember animal and abuses loses radio. You're listening to animal radio. Call the dream team now with a free animal radio app for iphone and android radio and just about fifteen minutes. We're going to talk to nancy do so. I called her dancy this salt before. I'm sorry. judy corrected me on that. They will spelled like the salt but it is french. Shed labou koucher due to sway. Swat twat okay. You saw the french. We all know. Awesome binder we know said nothing. I can't even imagine a frenchaccent anyway. She I believe she has a brand new Dog she's going to tell us about a little yorkie from what i understand. Sounds adorable. And i didn't realize that she was the first anchor a good morning america besides being in too close for comfort. Yeah i read somewhere. That she doesn't she doesn't like the fact that she's only recognized for too close for comfort. She's actually been a singer we before that ever started. And she was on about you to with paul reiser in helen hunt. Yes she played. Helen's mother yes stemple. Let's the only thing i remember. Simple was made me remember her name character on the show so she'll be on just a few minutes to tell us about her new dog. And you know we love to hear about everybody's new dog whether it's a celebrity or your dog you can call us toll free or cat or flamingo or bird or horse or iguana. We just like animals. Were crazy about our animals here. Stick another one for dr. Debbie and we have mike on the phone. Hey mike how are you doing mike. Okay driving right now. Where are you driving. I'm just coming into oklahoma city. Ok well the doctor here. What's going on with your dog. I have a out of six year old american steps and she has bad breath. She says about you. My god knows you're on. Her brother is fine. he doesn't have any problems. I got her when she was three months old and she had it since. Then we tried everything okay. Five try all kinds of dogs. You know they use to Supposed to be for bad breath and dogs and nothing shelters. Okay i in my biggest question for you is have you hatter in to have her teeth evaluate in clean at your veterinary office. She's gonna run when i get home. Awesome does pass. Some flack on the back ones now. And this is one thing. I even bought some Funny was talking about it. A while ago on taking to their dogs to A groomer and the groomers doing it. What illegal oh yeah. We talked before the anesthesia. Free dental cleaning that got you so steamed. Yeah now. I don't know and i don't think i have a problem with groomers. Doing teeth brushing brushing is different. But i think that's your job as a pet parent at home to do regular brushing. but yeah i'm not a fan of the let your Hairdresser clean your child's teeth thing that's out of my part. I'm not either the number one cause of bad breath in dogs is area down disease. So that's why. I was asking you if you had regular dental cleanings done so any bad breath in your pet. I'm going to say that lip up. And i'm gonna say is most likely due to the bacteria and the plaque products on the teeth in along the gum line so we have to address that first so you may through all dental bones that your baby and all the rinses and gels but if we're not really getting to the core problem of that bacteria film in in removing class. That's the that's the main thing gonna do when i get her home this time. But she's on. The road was the all the time. Yeah and then once we get the teeth cleaned. Hopefully there's bad teeth in there but in many cases in my own dog i was fooled by this outer teeth. Look great and then ended up. Probing the teeth when we had them under for teeth cleaning and we actually had pocket behind one of the teeth and that was a rotten root. There was no outward signs so we took an x. Ray found a bad tooth in my perfect mouth dog. So there can be problems that lurk under that gum line so i definitely. I applaud your efforts to get your teeth clean and then from there. We can try. Things like rushing the teeth preferably three to seven times a week would be best And then using things like references and water things like that that might help keep that mouth fresh. Yeah that's what. I found himself. It's a gal that you put on her teeth for the plaque and plus some stuff. It's on netflix. Water and i try out for about four days and they didn't even touch because it's stuff on the teeth like some event. So yeah that's that's why it's hard for some of these ancillary products to kinda help because we gotta get the the grossness off those teeth and don't not everybody like if you guys could see what we pull off a dog's teeth you'd really understand and it's really some gross stuff. I've actually had dogs. Tartar chip across in. Thank god. I had glasses on and almost hit my i the we're talking about concrete it's start. Yep so we'll we'll best wishes with dental cleaning and hope they don't find anything series but if they hopefully just clean things up and get on the right path for some home care that you can do either while you're on the road or when you're settled into different areas so there's a lot of different avenues that you can do and even some dental diets that can be helpful preventing plaque accumulation and period. Donald disease long dogs or cats or serene. You people to an australian woman was recently sentenced to nine months of community service for smuggling protected fish from asia in her dress. Forty five year old. Sharon naismith was cut in a melbourne airport. Trying to smuggle the fish. Customs officers reportedly heard flipping noises coming from her clothes and conducted a search in a specially made apron under her dress. They found fifteen plastic bags filled with water and fish. One rear asian arowana. The customs said was worth tens of thousands of dollars and fourteen catfish naismith who had just arrived from. Singapore pleaded guilty to a charge of attempting to import regulated wildlife. I'm brit savaged for animal radio and mo- people to radio checkout animal. Radio highlights all the good stuff without the bla-bla-bla rows on over to animal radio dot pet you love. your dog. is something bothering him or her. And you can't figure out what it is. Maybe they seem slow lethargic and maybe they just don't have energy wouldn't you like your dog to be living their very best life. Joy offers a money back guarantee on all of its products. If your dog won't eat it or you don't see the results you want. Just let us know. And we'll make it right totally risk-free what are you have to lose. You can't buy peg joy multivitamins in a story. The only way you can get them is through this unique radio offer and if you call right now learn how to get two bottles free with your order. Turn your dog's life around and make him or her a happy camper if they're right boy he said. Call peg joy right now. Eight hundred four five one one three five nine eight hundred four five one one three five nine eight hundred four five one one three five nine. That's eight hundred four five one thirteen fifty nine identify pants from. Hdtv hewlett thing through animal. Radio you're listening to animal radio if you missed any part of today's show visit us at animal radio dot com or download the animal radio app for iphone and android animal radio celebrating the connection with our pets. We're going to go back to the phones for dr. Debbie enjoy volonte. Just a couple of minutes here. And don't forget you can also ask questions from the free animal radio app for iphone android and blackberry and the android version just updated this last week. So if you haven't downloaded the update do it now and make sure that the next time there's a recall or news that you need for your animals you'll get a notification right to your smartphone. Speaking of on the phone we have nancy so she's joining us from los angeles. You remember her. From to close for comfort and i just realized today the she was the first anchor of good morning america. I did not know that nancy. How welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Yes i was the first thing thinker getting up at dawn but yes and animal lover just adopted. A new new dog really go. We're gonna talk. did you get. Hey tell me he's part Having ease part yorkie have an orchestra. He's about ten pounds. Yeah he's he's really really adorable because we lost jog a few months ago and of course. That's a really devastating loss for everybody. You know sure you understand that. So how are you today doing well. So what what is your is your keys name. It was cocoa. We have renamed him cooper within the first few weeks of getting an animal they start out. There's one name might even more again. You know that right. Yeah but i like. I love in coop. I think it really suits him. Cooper actually. We're in kind of training with him. He was with the family before that We're willing to find him a new home. Because said they were never home and they. It really hurt. That he was alone. So much so He kind of had free reign of everything so far. He's never been walked before so we're training him how to walk sort of breaking in they just left the door open to go in and out on the patio so so he doesn't know about. He's going to be five training in an old dog new tricks. Yes and we're in the throes of crate training him. Also 'cause we always had dogs which me so good because we traveled with them and Hotels motels wherever you like to stay with an animal dogs crate. It's a private little dinner for them. My dog likes her great. Yeah he's not quite used to it yet but he's getting he does go into it which is great. He willingly you know and with treats and stuff and now i now have a closed for a period of time and so he's he's acclimating sleep in bed with you at night or does he go into a crate. He's right in bed. The previous owners did not let him sleep in their bedroom because it that was all carpeted and they were fading. Have an accident. This one is. He's the first one bed here which is really cute and he doesn't you know he kinda phase put. He's not at all bothersome in bed. We've never had a dog in bed with us because we always had big dogs so this is a whole new world. Judy has a little dog. That's how how much does lady bug way about nine pounds and you put her in a little sling and carrier along with you. Wherever ordered one. I work a couple of swings. The great are they. What kinds of you see now. We got really advice on. I don't never had like i. I'd have to look at the name of it. But i'd say it's also y- she's nine. Yeah and it's shake shake my banana. He's a little long people. Ask a piece of part dachshunds which is not so but now you're trying to train him to go inside. I mean on a pad he tried because we have a little balcony and You know because. Like i said he was used to going on a patio so i must say the first few nights she got me up about one thirty and check him out to the balcony which i came because i didn't really wanna get threats. Goes you know. Hose it down But and we put one of those. It looks like Swath of grass. You know out out on the balcony but he he always sniffs it when he goes by but he doesn't go on it. He had no interest. Somebody's doing well being walked. Now he's getting better and better. You know we're walking him off and I think he's got send you one of these brilliant pads we we have a friend who's Letting us try out these brilliant pads that it's an automatic indoor what do they call it potty area hobby pottier and they don't use grasp but they use pee pads but it's on a continuous roll. So they can't they can't pick it up. Chew it and walk off with the pad like puppies kinda do a and then it you can set it to automatically once the dogs used it. You can set it like to go off three or four times a day and it'll automatically roll out you know. Cover up the old pat and then it eventually will use it. I love it but my my dog's always use pee pads so she was easy trained but yeah for indoors. It is grazed specially a two in the morning. Yeah he gets up in the middle of the night. she's in the crate. She gets me up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom. And i she goes right over into that. Automatic thing goes to the bathroom goes back in her crate. I don't have to get up. Get dressed outside in the at grade. That's great i mean. Ideally i wanted him to create at night that he he just didn't know about those things. I read everything. I can read online and everywhere else you should fishermen are older. I'll tell you what we're going to send you one of these so that you can try it out and see if it works. It works if it doesn't you know you try. And we wish. The best of luck with cooper if you have you ever have any questions about cooper you know. We got a veterinarian here. We got a groomer here. Any of those questions. You can always call okay. I'll call you great and it'd be wonderful. Thank you so much for hanging with us to talk. You both thank you well. It's time for us to get on outta here. Thanks for joining us. Don't forget you can get your fix during the week over an animal radio dot pets. Go by see you next week vs months.

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645 Woman Aviator

Airplane Geeks Podcast

1:31:26 hr | 2 months ago

645 Woman Aviator

"This is the airplane geeks. Podcast hurry is to educate and inform you explore and expand your passion for aviation and entertain you a little along the way this episode we have the story of legendary female aviator and member of the mercury who was also the first female faa inspector and the first female investigator for the ntsb in the news. Air capital gecas planned to merge into the world's largest commercial aircraft leasing company the dassault falcon six s. First flight was dedicated to alleviate the so who just died in a helicopter accident. The faa announce the twenty twenty one g award winners. Southwest airlines found buzz light year and we look at some notable women in aviation all that and more coming up right now. Welcome to the airplane. Geeks podcast this episode. Six hundred forty five of the show where we talk aviation. I mex flate in joining me. Is max trescott. He's host of aviation news podcast. He's a national. See if i've the year and he's the guy who knows more about the cirrus aircraft and the clap myers. Well maybe that's an overstatement. Hi max that's funny. Of course clap. Meyer brothers are the co founders of cirrus and no. I don't claim to know nearly as much as they tube. Thanks thanks for the recommendation. And hey the the room looks pretty full here. We got a lotta. We got a full house tonight. This is gonna be fun. Yeah we have. We have quite a crowd with us. We also have airplane geeks reporter at large launch pad. Mar zari greetings. Everyone within the sound of my voice in the air and at sea from deep in the heart of very good also with this is rob mark senior editor of flying magazine and he also publishes the jet wind blog. A good evening. And thank you for doing that twice. Max because i was tardy to the i'm just a little off tonight. You know i just. I feel it So please bear with me. Oh we we think you're law also but that's why we ask you to come on so much fun david vanderhoek. Our aviation historian is off again this week. He's filling a little under the weather. So he's hopefully he's in bed And if he's not that he's eating chicken soup well our guest. This episode is author loretta hall. She captured the memoir of the extraordinary female aviator wally funk now quickly while he funk was the first female civilian flight instructor at fort sill oklahoma she was the faa's first female operations inspector in systems. Worthiness analysts program specialist. She was the first female. Ntsb accident investigator. She was one of the mercury thirteen. Who in nineteen sixty. One passed the same physical exams as male mercury astronaut candidates and she participated in a number of air races winning the pacific air race against eighty participating competitors in her sitar brea. And there's a lot more which we will see. How loretta loretta hall. Who is here with us is a freelance writer in a nonfiction book author. She's a longtime space travel enthusiasts. She's currently a certified space ambassador for the national space society. Loretta has written eight books. Including five on the history and future of space travel one of which is the complete space buffs bucket list. One hundred space things to do before you die. I have some questions about that. That sounds fascinating. But her newest book is while he's memoir it's higher faster longer my life in aviation and my quest for spaceflight and that's available on her website while he fly dot com the right. Welcome to the airplane geeks. Podcast thank you max. It's a pleasure to be here. i really do love. The idea of the space buffs. Bucket list is that ten times fast. It's very difficult as an. Is that a list for anybody in all ages. Yep it's how how to participate and space exploration in some cases from the comfort of your home and in other cases of to go other places and do other things now. Have you been ticking off the the one hundred items yourself. I think up to sixty one or sixty two something like that amazing very good. Would you when you came up with that list. Loretta when you hit like eighty two. Did you ever worry that you wouldn't think of eighteen more all the time i know that would just be the most unbel- i've got one hundred things that i can only get the ninety eight. Oh god anyway. That's an amazing feat. I i did a lot of research and actually discovered some things. I hadn't been aware of before so it was really fun all right very good well. Let's talk about wally funk and all those things that i mentioned very earliest. Atp ratings. i think she was like the sixty eighth woman to get an atp rating Female inspector for the faa the ntsb and of course the mercury thirteen but she was also an outdoors woman. She was an expert marksman. Which i think is interesting. And she even did some slalom and downhill ski racing loretto. What can you tell us about. What drove the woman. Mary wallace funk what drove her to develop this amazing life. It's just something innate. In her personality she is one of the most positive people i've ever known. She just has spirit of curiosity and when something strikes her curiosity she wants to do it and if she hits a roadblock sheet well she she has favourite expression that she learned as a child she grew up in taus new mexico in a community that included native american pablo indian tribe and so from her indian friends. She heard this expression that when you come up against something they basically you can't control and it prevents you from doing something you throw it a fish. I'm not sure how that report that came from if you like. Maybe it was. If you're you know in the woods and your accosted by bear if you throw him official alone. I don't know that's just my guess but but that's the way. She is one of her favourite expressions and when she hits a roadblock throat a fish and go on find another way to do it. Isn't that so true. Of all the people that really end up being successful is that they all hit some of the same sometimes. More of the roadblocks than than anybody else but they just somehow hunker down and just steer around it and that's one of the reasons. I got interested in her story. I'd like to start the beginning and ask our listeners as well as our correspondents with us think back to what you were doing when you were twenty one. I was struggling through calculus. Too worried about graduation and wally being an astronaut candidate you know. Oh my god you know. She was doing that when she was twenty one. Let's start there. Holy cow well especially in those In those days in the late fifties early sixties and the there were roles for for different genders generally. and of course we've come Quite a ways since then did she see that as an impediment or as a challenge or was that just something that wasn't even on the top of her mind. How did she approach the fact that you know you look at engineering. And nasa astronauts and all that it was very definitely a man's world. I don't think she looked at it as an impediment as such she just. She had her own objectives in mind. She knew what she wanted to do and she just wanted to be able to do it and she just. She put herself in the positions of of being able to do those sorts of things even even if she was in a gender minority. It wasn't to prove a point. It was just so she could do what she wanted to do in does has she slowed down in august. She's in her early eighties. Probably now is she. Does she still fly no tree slowing down some cheese. She's still an amazing person. Oh sure i mean. Take a rest from that It's hard for me to keep up with her. She walks fast. Just goes right by well. Let's see when did the first astronaut was the first lady going. Join the astronaut court. Well the the first group that Included female astronauts was. I think if i recall correctly one thousand nine hundred seventy eight sounds about right. I'm gonna have to double check that. So that would be seen years after she qualified for its system that was three systems beyond which she qualified that was for the class for space. Shuttles yes it was for space was for the space shuttles. Yes yes well. We've talked about the mercury thirteen in the past but For some of our maybe our newer listeners. Who who are familiar with that It was a group of women who really went through the same The same training the same nine trading not training the same testing. I guess physical exams the physical exams. Right right as as their um what would become the mercury seven and they actually progressed pretty far through that process and then they had the rug basically pulled out from underneath them and it was shut down but I understand why While he did pretty well in some of these tests particularly with the deprivation tank there were actually three phases to the testing. The i was the physical exams which were Done at the loveless click albuquerque. And those those were the ones that all of nineteen women went through. Tho- those exams and thirteen of them passed with no fifth. No physical reservations and then there are two other phases that besides some interviews that the male astronaut candidates went through of psychological testing and physical stress testing and some other things Jerry cobb was the only one of the women who pretty much went through all three phases of testing by the time the other eighteen were tested. They were they were scheduled to go for one of the other phases. At pensacola air station. Davor station and Just a matter of two or three days before they were to leave to go for that testing They were told that it was canceled because Someone at the naval air station contacted nasa. And said are you going to pay for this. And nasa said pay for what so so that was pulled out from under them. But what wally did was jerry. Cobb arranged for wally and one of the other women to go through the psychological test phase. They did add in oklahoma city. And then after that wally on her own managed to set up some additional tests that were similar to what many of the tests that the the actual men the men candidates had done so she was she pursued it in some ways farther than any of the others did jerry pursued at farther but then she was. She was the first one she she did. Many of these things before the other women were even tested at the loveless clinic. So things got tougher after that. And how did while he feel after being excited enthusiastic about you know the possibilities and to have it taken away. Well it was. It was a letdown for sure but she doesn't dwell on anything that's negative so she basically okay. It was a disappointment. She essentially through a fish and decided that she was gonna find her own way to go into space and she still trying sixty years. She's still trying right. We'll come to that. Yes so what did she do after that experience. Well that was that was only a year or so after she had graduated from college and essentially right after she finished the first year of of Being a flight instructor fort sill and then after that she went to work as a flight instructor and chief pilot added general aviation airport in hawthorne california. She worked there for a couple of years. I think and then she decided that before. Her career tied her down too much. She wanted to see the world so she a friend she bought purchased from afar a vw camper. She and her friend flew to brussels picked up the camper and spent the next two. And a half years touring through europe the middle east and africa so they they had some amazing adventures there and then then they came home and she toured around the united states for a little while after that. Interestingly enough Shortly after she got back to this country and she started traveling she went down the atlantic coast and she happened to be at cape canaveral at the time that they launched one of the very early one of the early unmanned apollo test flights and so she saw that from a distance photographed it and then after that she ended up back at hawthorn working a chief pilot again until she joined the faa and then hedrick career with them and then the espn and continued after that with a big chief pilot at various airports. She has a lot of hours. Rob how do you have. Nineteen thousand six hundred at a a few. How about you rob. Not that many people tell us. Why don't you ask max right max. West lime up to somewhere between ten thousand and eleven thousand. That's pretty good. One of one of his acquaintances said about her. That wally flies like other people breathe interesting. She just loves flying. You know it's interesting when you think what was the year. She was twenty one. Well she she did the testing in february of nineteen sixty one which she had actually just turned twenty two a couple of weeks before she showed up for the testing will. It's amazing considering how gender centric everything was then it. It's amazing they even thought to involve a group of women as potential astronauts. Well that that was the doing of dr randy loveless who had designed the physical exams for the astronaut candidates He and his clinic had actually been doing some testing for the air force. Further ultra high flying pilots like the youtube pilots prior to that and so they were chosen to do the the mercury astronaut testing. And after you've finished testing. The men. Dr loveless decided that there might be some real advantages to having women as astronauts because generally speaking they're smaller than men so they take up less space in that small capsule. They generally weigh less than ben so that saves on for liftoff they need less food and oxygen than men so again. that's a weight savings for the spacecraft. They tend to tolerate isolation and confinement better than men do and some other things so Fewer heart attacks and various reasons that he thought they might make very good candidates. And so it was really he and general flicking her from the air force that Decided to test women as demonstrated by all of your co hosts here during covid in isolation and not doing mentally. Well you know. She was very polite and she didn't say an women are smarter than men. So thank you very much loretta. You're welcome well that was that was kind of you right right. Yeah i think she I think i recall. She was in the Separate separate sensory deprivation tank for roy ten and a half hours thirty five minutes and and at that they told her you might as well come on out. She didn't ask to stop the test. At that point. She'd have been happy to go on longer. I think that was some kind of a record. I think it was in fact. Jerry cobb wally and really hurley were the i think the only women that had been tested in the tank up to that point this was not the same as the the isolation test at the male astronauts took. They sat in a dark room for three hours. Oh but this was. This was a project by a psychologist at in oklahoma city and he had been developing this isolation tank procedure for a while. And that's that's where jerry went for her testing and then she brought the other two in. So i think they were. The only first women who had been tested at that and jerry stayed in for nine hours and forty minutes which which was a very long time and then radius was in for ten ten hours and thirty minutes i think. And then while he's for ten hours and thirty five minutes doesn't credible. That's incredible i. My wife is a is a psychologist to and and please. Don't tell her anything about the sensory deprivation tank. Apparently i i. I know i would never last in that. I well but look on the bright side. Rob you sit in the dark and mumble. The yourself for three plus hours but i should probably talk to. Yes but i answer me. I give myself very very good answers. And this was this total sensory deprivation the water. Well she had two days of psychological testing before she went in the tank and during that time about every two hours they were taking your temperature and she would ask them why and they said. Oh you'll find out eventually. And the when she got in in the tank of water which was in a room by itself totally dark. In the room soundproofed room she. There was no air movement that you could feel. She said soon after she got in the tank. She thought that something's weird. She started kind of slapping the water a little bit. She could not feel the water because they had made the air in the room and the water itself exactly her average body temperature and the humidity in the room was such that water didn't evaporate and create a cooling effect so she literally had no sense of touch taste smell hearing sight anything for over ten hours. Yeah and some. Apparently some of the subjects that dr shirley had tested previous to that had actually gone into hallucinations. After a few hours in the tank it was a severe test. I can imagine some young parents would be thrilled to go into that. Put me away from all this noise for about fifteen minutes. Not for all. They're asking just fifteen minutes now. Tell us about her being a a truly breaking the glass ceiling at the esp. Well that was Both that and the faa were things that she did not apply for. They were things that people basically invited her Into both of those positions and especially with the ntsb her that job she said. I don't have the kind of knowledge that you need. And they said we'll train you so Why were they attracted to. It was it because of her reputation. Or yeah Well the she had gotten to know some people at the faa because of being a chief pilot and flight instructor there in hawthorne and at one point she decided she's kind of an unconventional person. Yes you might know might guess. She decided she wanted to go to alaska and become a bush pilot so but she needed some letters of recommendation. So she contacted friend of hers. whose husband i think worked at the faa and ask for a letter of recommendation. And he said he called her up and he said all he wanted to come into my office on monday she went in and they chatted for a little highly said to come to work for us and then she was with them for about four years. And you know she. She had some interaction in the meantime with some of the ntsb folks at various accident scenes and and the reports that she filed on the thing she investigated for faa were for forward or ntsb and so they were familiar with her work and so after about four years said that they called her up and said wanna come work for us Did while we have lifelong friends or or you know other friends that support her and all these activities and things i i can see how someone who does so many different kinds of things. It can sometimes be hard to sort of maintain the same base of friends. When you're moving around doing all these different things. So what was the case with her well. She's she's a very people oriented person and she did have good friends and and she would keep in touch with them and and she especially got a lot of support from her mother. Her mother as a teenager had had an opportunity to go a crop duster type by plane. Pilot had landed in a field near her school and all the kids ran out and she wanted to go for a ride and he said well. It's a dollar a minute so she went around borrowed a dollar from ten friends and she went up for ten minutes and then she went home and told her dad that she wanted to be a pilot and her dad said no absolutely not. You're a young lady and you will not be a pilot. So when wally came along and was interested in flying her mother was behind her all the way and she ended up taking her mother on some of the air races and even few the ntsb accident investigations. They they were very close. Yeah i'm sure. The support of her mother really played a big part in what she would become and what she would what she would do. How about her relationship with with student pilots. You mentioned she has over nineteen thousand flight hours. i see that she she solo just hundreds and hundreds of pilots. And i get the impression that that she must have loved teaching. Did she She did she loves flying so much. That the greatest joy she gets. I think is teaching other people to fly and especially young people who will have a lot of time in their lives to to fly and in fact there was one year when she was. I think it was even around the time that she worked for the faa that A school in southern california that had an aviation program. had their instructor Go on leave for a year and wally actually taught the high school aviation program for for a year she loved loved teaching the kids in terms of capturing walis. Biography her memoir. How did that come about. Was that her idea or your idea or somebody else's a combination of things. I of course knew about wally for a long time. I've been a person who writes about space history. I i knew that aspect of her And then i think about four years ago. I was giving a presentation at a women in aviation international conference and my talk was about women space pioneers from new mexico and i. I've stayed up there in the front of the room getting ready for my presentation in walks wally funk she's quite recognizable and so i said okay. Here we go. I got part way through my talk and then got to a point where i said okay. I'm gonna talk about someone. Now named wally funk and wally sitting right there so wally if i say something is not true about you let me know. And so she. She did comment a couple of times during my presentation and then after my talk was over she came up. Gave me a big hug. And we became friends immediately so maybe a year or so later. We were visiting each other and i well. I kept telling your wallet. You've got to write your book. Just gotta write your memoir and to kind of push it off. And then finally she said what do you write it for me so i can take my enthusiasm instead. I guess so. So you must have just Fra huge number of stories. How did you capture. Did you take notes or did you record them. How did you do that. I recorded all of our conversation. Most of our conversations. Yes so you must have hours and hours and hours of just amazing. Did you fit it all into the book. Most of the good parts. There were a few things she'd wanna talk about And but for the most part i got. I got most of the good stuff in there. Was there anything that kind of surprised you. Well you know. I as i said i was familiar with her space connection but i until i met her and and really started interviewing her for the book i. I had not realized all of the accomplishments that she had done in the field of aviation or any of the other things like exploring going camping for two and a half years across the ocean. You know so yeah. There were a lot of things that surprised me about her. She liked zip-lining. Oh she loves it she still goes zip lining once a year really. Yeah i haven't got the nerve yet to do that. I haven't either. I just oh come on max really even i've done. Have you jump out of an airplane. But i thought zip-lining was really was really cool. Because once you're going you can't stop all you can do is look down. Keep going brace. They did it in alaska with my wife. It was great fun. I've done it. I've done it both the commercial away in the military where where you just have to hang on. He trained in star city in the cosmonauts center. Correct she did. She spent her one there bleepers year. Two thousand yeah. She had a chance to go there for five days of astronaut training. And they she said they were. It was the real trading stuff. She said sometimes they would finish using a piece of equipment and see there was one of the cosmonauts standing on the side waiting till they finish so he could take his turn. It was she loved it. It was a great experience for. We'll didn't while he want to become a candidate for the shuttle program. Is that why she was doing that. Training know this. This was Toward the end of the shuttle program but she she She had applied to nasa. There's conflicting statistics on this either three or four times Back in the sixties and maybe seventies but Kept getting turned down because she didn't have a degree in engineering. So wasn't inch she and jerry. Cobb i believe what max is referring to is when they went to go say john glenn backup for a hit you'll The reason presenting john glenn was had to complete bio workup on him from the sixties. And now they're going to see what the effects were later. And i know that i believe that Wally and jerry. Cobb replied said look. We got the same workup. So we're just as audible as he is especially cherry she. She was very. She became very upset with the whole process while he would've loved to go. I mean she's she's been trying she worked with. I think three different companies in the Probably nineteen ninety s and beyond that. We're preparing for civilian spaceflight and none of them panned out but She's really been trying everything she could think of to get up in space. She's been talking to the spacex people and She i don't know that she's talked to spacex but she She was working with one of the companies. That were that was competing in the On sorry x prize and they. They didn't get their rocket operating before. Burt rutan's team won that and but then After that she she finally did buy a ticket on virgin galactic. So she's she's waiting her turn wasn't she thinks she was one of the early ticket. Purchasers fairly early not not unfortunately not as early as she hopes because they kinda go by seniority When they when you bought the ticket not not of age. That would be just amazing. Though if if she were able to ride on virgin galactic she would much rather go into orbit. Sure of course. So what does she do now. she's well how does she spend her time Well she's gotten very frustrated during the covid situation. Because i said she's a she's very much a people person and Having just not not be out among so many people has has been a challenge for her. And that's understandable. I mean certainly. A lot of us have kind of felt that way. Yeah hopefully things will be will be changing in the not too distant future for our listeners if you want to see more of the spirit of wally funk and jerry cobb on apple. Tv there's a show called for all mankind in. It's a fictional nasa history but starting in season one. They have a combination character named molly. Cobb which is a combination of wally funk and jerry cobb they combined into a single character and the spirit of wally funk and jerry cobs is then carried through for the rest of season one and season two So that's where you can go get inspired by this kind of entrepreneur. Space go getting things and then the other way to learn the more factual thing Loretta tell us about your biography of her and where they can get it. It's called higher faster longer by life in aviation and my career in spaceflight. I am delighted to say that as of last evening. It was awarded a second place award for biography memoir category and the new mexico press woman's a competition. It is available really anywhere. Any bookstore could order it Wally fly dot com. There's a link there where you can order it from amazon. It's available in paperback version and also a kindle version and we'll have some links in the show notes of course. We're where you can do that. It's just a fascinating story. I really encourage people to read it. Not because i wrote it. But because she's just such an amazing person she's a great role model for positively for perseverance. She's just fun to read about some crazy stuff. Did she ever make you wanna go. Fly in the space yourself. I i have mixed feelings about it. Sometimes i like to do it. And sometimes i think i'm not sure not so sure. Loretta tell shar may be really quickly about the national space society in what it means to be a space ambassador. The national space society's is despite its name actually an international organization that promotes human space exploration and eventually space settlement. And i guess about oh twenty fourteen or so They had a space ambassadors program. That i heard about because i was a member of venice's and so i signed up for for that and it. It basically involves giving talks and that will inform and inspire people to support human exploration of space. And i came in fourth place in that competition and surprised. I got to go to the center for two days and learn how to fly simulated virgin galactic mission on a centrifuge so that was really awesome and then A little while a couple of years later they decided to do a face to space invaders program. So i'm i'm working on the committee that Is organizing has been organizing that so anybody who is interested in promoting the idea of human space exploration goto. Ns dot org and sign up. We we're always looking for new new members. Hey guys could we could. We recommend launchpad To go. I think he's eager volunteer. Yeah i'll do stories from inside the simulator. Well unfortunately space invaders. Don't have that opportunity anymore. So loretta any any future literary works on your part any projects that you're working on now see that file cabinet back there. Yes i see several. Actually one drawer is full of research for my next book. So not sure. When i'm going to get to it but because i'm still doing a lot of these kinds of activities to let people know about wally story but it's going to be a book about human spaceflight is like and what kinds of accommodations human beings have to make when they're traveling for extended periods of time in space. Psychologically and physically and everything. I had a conversation with somebody about twenty years ago. Maybe who told me a story about a study or something as to what would be the the best psychological makeup of of a person who would be in a space for to go to mars or for extended periods of time and. They told me that one of the best kind of candidates would be prison. Convicts i don't know if that was some ways. But that's what they said they would be used to confinement. I'm not sure they'd be the ideal personality. Share the the cabin with a thought. It was amusing serious. But i don't know all right loretta hall. Thanks so much for telling us a little bit about while he funk in the in the book and again we'll have links to a lot of material about this You have your own website Loretta we'll put that in the show notes as well. Yes i have. A site called author hall dot com very not arthur but author author. I thought i was so clever. Picking that day from my website but it always gets him center stood ensure thanks again. Thank you this has been so much fun. Thank you all. thanks for coming loretta. First news item comes from the motley fool. This is thirty. Billion dollar deal could reshape the aviation industry and what we see is that air cap holdings has announced that it would acquire gecas. Let's The unit of general electric That does aircraft leasing and financing in this thirty billion dollar deal of course is ge capital aviation services. Air cap is a e. r. c. a. p. and this basically consolidates the number one and number two commercial aviation financing and leasing companies at least measured by the the number of aircraft. This would make them big i. I love the motley fool. Subtitle to this article which is boeing's most important customer isn't an airline. It's a leasing company. And the in and now we see leasing. The biggest leasing company having even more power but think about. Where do they get the. Maybe you guys are better at finance. That i am but of course the the leasing companies have been buying airplanes from the airlines and then leasing the back so is that essentially how they came up with this twenty. Three billion dollars in added debt. There's some funny financials. I don't want to say funny. But you'll very complex financial going on here. And like for instance one of the things during his purchase. I'd be curious to know how much of their assets are parked in the desert right now under their name versus how many are parked in the desert under their clients name. Are the clients still paying lease on airplanes. That they're having to park somewhere in the desert I'm sure that number is a closely controlled secret. Cassatt shows you what they're really worth. Where we we do see that as a result of this deal. Air cap takes on a lot of debt and g. e. takes a forty six percent equity stake in the company although Ge has the ability to to sell off their equity in air cap. Not all at the start. You think there's of a phased phased program leasing companies have have grown over the years. And like you mentioned rob. One aspect of of their activity is buying aircraft from airlines and leasing them back to them that gets The airlines liquidity Position and of course they also they being the leasing companies buy new aircraft from the boeings and the airbuses and so forth he and then the least those to the airlines and that's grown a lot Over the years. There's some statistics that are that are reported that indicate that when when leasing was kind of getting started in this area in the seventies less than two percent of the fleet was least in two thousand seventeen that had grown to forty percent of the airliners who were under a lease agreement of some sort. And i think this is particularly useful for startups. You know if you want to start an airline. Why by a lot of airplanes right. You probably don't have the funding to buy a lot of airplanes. But you can lease airplanes hand. Startup cost is is somewhat lessened. But just what kind of state The the large carriers would have been in Over the last year if they had already been leasing airplanes they would have had no assets to sell to to increase their cash flow. And who i. I only know how. I manage my checking account. And after a while when there's no cash your not liquid if you're leasing them though depending on the rules of the lease you may be able to just walk away from it and therefore you're not hemorrhaging money because you walked away from that from the option you have on that aircraft right. The leasing companies take on some degree of risk obviously in been leasing aircraft to To the airlines but they have the benefit of consolidated position so one airline in and of itself managing its fleet has a certain level of of risk but if you're a large Aircraft lessor you know you. You are Combining the risk of multiple airlines. You know who we need back on this show if you hadn't run him off and he had him get a job. Dan exactly captains yield management. So i tried to a little bit of research to find out how much these leases generally are in. The best i could find is Aircraft value news did a a report back in two thousand eighteen and at least in that year. They found that a seven. Three seven dash eight though the monthly lease would run about three hundred and eighty five thousand dollars a month. They said an eighth hr twenty neo on a twelve year term. Might cost three hundred seventy thousand dollars a month And then of course there's also maintenance reserves associated with this. That's something that a lot of people aren't aware of but if you're an airline leasing aircraft the the less sore a a maintenance reserve which is typically a certain number of dollars per flight hour and you you pay that as you go basically Which the lessor accumulates so that when their Is a maintenance required an engine overhaul or an airframe check or something like that That the lessors gonna pay for well. Actually the the lessee pays for it in advance over time interesting aspect and what you're looking at it as you said three hundred thousand. That's four point eight million dollars a year times twelve years. That's fifty six million dollars to have access to aircraft that runs. What new eighty to one hundred million dollars. Yeah the she's more than that and then you don't have the after twelve years so you've got no assets. Well that's true but you also have to try to sell it exactly so you know. Welcome to the accounting geeks podcast. Yeah so so. Maybe there's a an airplane geeks Listeners somewhere who really understands financing that we can get on here to correct all of the probably a name things there we probably and his first name probably begins with dean all right Let's move on Flying magazine rob dessau falcon. Six x makes the first flight. Well it was very secret. We all knew it was coming but the for nine business aviation folks The desk so Six x is the replacement airplane for the five x That kind of The design of which came to a grinding halt was at three or four years ago. I can't quite remember but Because there was an engine problem. that That kind of popped up. And i still remember being nba when the the desk so people Put up cash. What was the name of the engine. The silvercrest i think the reporters in the audience were asking The people from desk so so what's going on what happened at. I can't think of who it was. Maybe it was the falcon falcon chat. Ceo here in the state said well. Actually i'm not really in a place to answer that and he pointed to the engine Rep in the back of the room and said why don't you stand up and tell them and the guy just kind of you're you could tell he was not ready for that question up next to the curb so i can throw you on the boss. I felt so bad for that fellow and that was a store into itself but anyway Not long after that de so Cancelled the five x project and Came up with the six x With new boy. I should know the engines max. These pratt pratt and whitney canada. Pw eight hundred series. This one is specifically the pow eight twelve d. Which is an interesting engine. It's the core of a geared turbofan that would be used on a mitsubishi. Mr j. without geared fan so it's the core of that engine It also powers. I think the gulfstream with that series the gulfstream g. Five hundred g six hundred as well although on. That's a larger engine and the that's a pow eight fourteen and eight fifteen. And that's also the core of a gear turbo Gts geared turbofan engine. But it's the one that powers the airbus a to twenty whereas the smaller one as i said for the mr j. Well i think the real story of course beside the fact that the six a wide body Business airplane is the fact that desk so was able to pull this off season so relatively quickly i mean and look at the The mr j. story and and that you know how many years That went on before it was cancelled so again people really thought at first that desa was just going to kind of cave in on that but i think they. They've shown the the world they still. They're still there and so we don't have a whole lot of details about the the first flight except that it was successful of course And the story is yet to be told well. Another aspect of this is that the flight was dedicated to olivier too so who died in a helicopter accident march seventh. Recently he was the grandson of marcell does so and he was an air force academy graduate combat engineering officer and pilot and use a reserve member in the french air force but Interesting guy. he had a passion for photography published. Several books of photographs is also a composer and a musician and he held a number of world. speed records. Actually new york to paris in falcon fifty in the seventies but he also held speed records in the falcon nine hundred and nine hundred e. x. I was the paris to dubai. Run in nineteen ninety six so Interesting guy Let's i said died in a helicopter accident. Along with the pilot. Those are the only two occupants of the helicopter. And i don't rob. I don't know anything more about that accident or put the circumstances surrounding nor nor do i I just know that. I I heard about it too and that really is. Is it all right. Another story from flying magazine. Twenty twenty one g award winners announced by faa committee. Now when i there's a story behind this story next trescott knows what that is so two episodes ago we messed up and nobody caught us. I kept waiting for somebody to say. Hey you guys you guys screwed up because we reported on These the the winners the flight instructor of the year the aviation technician and in all of that and we said who the winners were and everything well. The article that i picked up on was last year's winners. Those those were that twenty twenty winners. Not the the new twenty twenty one winners. I wasn't on that show. That's my story. And i'm staying in. You know as an easy mistake to to make. Because i think in the same show we were talking about the twenty twenty collier trophy. Right and of course. Those trophies are for the prior year. And so i think when you picked up this you look for the twenty twenty awards and yet. These are listed for the current year so you have similar awards occurring at the similar time but with different years so so the standard is a little different between the two so it was easy to get confused. I remember you asked me start with a story. And and i said my can't find one of the names here and then you went ahead and read the story. In part of the disconnect was i was looking at different set of names on it and then you went with the other story that i didn't pick up on the fact that the the names were different at that time so we ended up with two sets of links and one of them was wrong and we figured it out launch bad. Doesn't it sound like an awful lot of backpedaling. Here it is. I mean these. Maybe they should have had a qualified aviation journalist. Like yourself on for you. Know where sosa. Interns. jackie anna. So right tell us who the twenty twenty one award winners are y- i well. Let's let's get to that. I mean i was just gonna say why. Don't all these associations get their act together can either decide. They're all going to do this year's award for last year or the anyway so Let's see national flight instructor of the year. A arolla max. Trescott knows quite a bit about. He was the instructor of the year. Two thousand and eight. I believe max. And that's when you and i met was at i think the award ceremony or was that nineteen hundred eight different. Get that right. Yeah boy that one. But this this year it was ronald j. timmermans of orlando florida And michael colin dunkley of kosh. Kosh cock coshocton coshocton maybe a coshocton. Ohio resident will Bring in or email us and tell everybody how i butchered that name. But he's the maintenance technician of the year and adam timothy go ahead. I'm sorry. Say if you're smart you just said A suburb of land. And then move on right. If i had been intelligent enough to even know that was a suburb of cleveland But i it is now. I'm afraid it is now of cleveland. and adam timothy mcgee of swisher iowa as the faa safety team representative of the year. And i think that's something that we often don't spend a lot of time with we only hear about these things once a year but these people have some incredible amounts of experience Our incredible kinds of experience and If you if you meet one up at oshkosh this year You know give them a pat on the back. Except i'm wondering There there were no ladies in this or am. I supposed to say women there. There are no women in this group. Though are there were there last year There were yes last year. Okay and as you said the The the awards are presented at your venture in oshkosh in july assuming. That event goes forward as planned well. Congratulations to all these winners. Next story is this is a fun one. this is where is this from w. f. a. which is it's dal- dallas tv. Dallas are historian. I believe dave vanderhoek brought us to our attention and the story is to infinity and beyond south. We actually go ahead. Actually i brought. I did yep but this is a fantastic story. This is our positive airline this story of the week. And you know it's you read things like this and it's so So heartwarming But you know the launch pad. There was giving the the the signature line from buzz light year to infinity and beyond as you might have guessed. Some poor young toddler left his buzz light year on the aircraft when they got off the plane at dallas love field and of course when the parents got to the rental car location they realized oops. We're missing the buzz. And they had to tell their young son that buzz was off on a mission and lucky for them he completed the mission and found his way back to them because a ramp agent for south west found him on the airplane and he looked buzz over and he found that on the bottom of buzzes boot was the family's last name and he checked the flight and they found there was. Just one hagen family. They'd flown that aircraft that day but rather than just contact the family and send it back. He had a little fun. He took buzz around. The airport took all kinds of pictures. Great picture of buzz standing on the ramp with a southwest jet behind him and the camera angle is shot from one inch off the deck so buzzes taller than the camera. And you've got the southwest yet in the background aerobic pose. Yeah he looks great. And then this Ramp agent went ahead to write a custom letter which was hand lettered in the covid interesting looking font and it was addressed to the young boy. It says to commander hagan. I'm very excited to return to you. On completing my mission. I was able to explore the airport and spaceport in little rock arkansas while i was away and i have include photos of my adventure. A journey was Trust me something a lot. I'm so thankful to return to my buddy to infinity and beyond your buddy buzz light year space ranger so the family i think was totally blown away when this box arrived. And they posted a video of it and you can see the little boy. There as buzz is being pulled out of the box so talk about a positive airlines story. I just absolutely love story. I love it too. And what's really good for south west. Is that buzz. Made another additional leg before they discovered bus. It wasn't when they were cleaning the airplane there. 'cause they got off in what dallas and then the plane went on for another leg and buzz was discovered in little rock so at a boy to south west. Yeah that's a great story and especially the letter from buzz. You know talking about his his mission. That's just And and there's there's video of this that shows the the little boys reaction when the opened up the box. And there's there's buzz light year in there. It's just a precious photo i get. Oh that's that's the kind of pr that you can't by. I mean if they'd cook this up. People said whatever But i mean nobody at southwest airlines told this Agent to do this He took it upon himself to You know research getting the buzz light year back to the guy but thought. Hey you know what. Let's have a little fun with it while we're at it. And and although i have traveled on south southwest or any airline at a year i remember that the southwest people were always good for things like that and thank goodness. They're still at it. It's part of the corporate culture you know that you create and some some big companies value a culture that just automatically leads to people doing kind things like that and and others. They don't prioritize it. And so maybe it'll happen sometimes depending on the individual and a lot of times it doesn't happen but to me it's part of the corporate culture that you build Which is not an easy thing to do. But i think southwest is got it another interesting kind of fun story serial stowaway. I didn't know that there was a serial stowaway who stories this This was mind and this is actually an rob's backyard rob. You probably remember about the woman who has been getting on airplanes without paying for tickets. And i think we all knew that she had done this a couple of times. But this was really quite shocking. She was interviewed by Cbs to in chicago and she revealed that she'd actually done this thirty times. So you gotta you gotta sit there and wonder how does anybody jump the security line thirty times and get onto an airplane without a boarding pass. And that's probably the mind boggling thing about this because you know if this doesn't raise all kinds of red flags where you're thinking What if a terrorist were to to do that But she She was very upfront about her Her little scheme which probably be a little hard for terrorists to duplicate they would have. I have to look like a little old grandmother Which she is but she said quote. I got by them. This is the thing that is so crazy by following someone that will be carrying like a blue bag. She said and the next thing. I know i get into the t. s lined. Tsa line and tsa. lets me through. And they think. I'm with the guy with the blue bag. And just as a security expert jeff price says for her to be able to repeat that over and over and over is just mind boggling. I am just. I just onto the story when you posted it and went and watched it and read. This represents a triple failure though because at the security level. We've got the her getting past. Tsa but then. She's getting past the gate agent to board the airplane and then the third one is when she gets on the airplane. House the purser not catching the fact that she's having to bump someone else can say there's somebody in my seat you'll sold the purser should be checking the seat count as they're going through and if they have a wrong seat count. It's like wait. Who are we missing or her way. We got one more than we should. So this is why in the audio all the airlines went no comment. Because they're being is on. Some of those flights are international flights and by by agreement. When you get to the foreign country if you're not a legal as don't have a passport don't have a visa. It's by treaty. The airline that brought you there has to haul you home at their expense. Which is why when you board an international flight. They all wanna see a passport and make sure the passport lines up with the boarding pass because if it doesn't they're on the hook to send you back so it's like oh man. We've we've had three three. Three different layers failed here and over thirty times and it looks like she went to London twice and went to somewhere else in europe and they've got a full list of all the places she's been in the us and to think that she's arrested a couple of times and the judge of course is just had with her. He's basically said all right. This is the last free passage she gets. I think she's been in court twice yet. What they said. Last time i remember. I remember this happening. And they said this is over. Except it's not but i i. What a great disguise. I mean back in. I don't know whenever that movie members of the original airport movie and the actress Helen hayes play the kinda grandmotherly old woman who cut a snuck on on the airplane and got herself a see may were going to. They were going to kick her and she became instrumental in saving the airplane But we'll i was another story but thirty times security failed and i'm sure there are people out there. Tsa they're saying. Oh the stories. We tell you well. They've got a picture posted so apparently everybody knows. This is one of the most wanted beyond the lookout type of a characters. So i have a different viewpoint of this and that is if you go back to the old original definition of hacker which is not a negative term initially but refers to somebody who takes things apart probes things in order to learn how they work and to see what they can do. And if there are vulnerabilities their exposed. This woman is a hacker in the purest original sense. And she's not the one who's at fault. Oh she's not the way that she should not be. Penalized in my. You know. in my opinion. I know it's kind of a little bit offbeat but she should not be penalized for doing this because all she did was exposed to launchpad said the failures of others or the failures of other systems. So that's good i mean. I think it's good that we know that she could get away with this. Because what's the implications for terrorists and things. She's exposed a vulnerability in the system. And she shouldn't be penalized for that. And if anybody else can find any other vulnerabilities in the system. I think we want to know about him. So that's my end. We should mention that. She has admitted that she's had some mental health adams bipolar and this is something. I've rejected for years. She does say that She's now going to make sure she doesn't do this again. But an interesting thing in one phone conversation from jail she was asked if she felt a fight or flight. Response and yes. She literally took a flight. She did okay. We'll have a couple of other quick stories In the show notes One is from connected aviation today. This is women's history month. Look impactful women in aviation in ao. Pa also published a apiece with a woman women entrepreneurs in aviation. And there's a number of women highlighted in in both of those articles or you could just by loretta his book. Well that's loretta has brought us Another one but there are some Some interesting stories of different types Leeann ridgway joined rockwell in nineteen. Eighty eight is a temporary hire a. She's now in a senior leadership role at rockwell collins. Which of course now collins aerospace she worked yourself up the up the ladder And there are a number of others. Joan higginbotham always loved that name higginbotham. She joined kennedy space. Center's us eventually selected as an astronaut by nasa in nineteen ninety-six. She helped build the international space station. She's got three hundred eight hours in space She was of the folks that operated the space station. Remote manipulator system also called the robot arm on the space station and and she's also one of only three african american women in history to go to space so there are a number of kind of inspirational stories and those two articles Certainly if you have Children or other people that could benefit from seeing these positive experiences from these amazing women that You know be good idea to share those with them in. Actually one final thing rob rob rob rob the birthday boy. The recent birthday boy. But you're not alone in having a birthday no in fact within just a few days of My birthday The former astronaut frank borman Had a birthday And he's slightly older than me Us and thank you for that Audience member whoever you are out there And thank you Max west for not commenting And that's an inside joke. We're brothers. I never tell my brother I had a chance to interview him. Oh gosh i maybe fifteen years ago. for aviation international news. I'll be darned if remember what. The story was about But he was just the nicest nicest guy to sit and have lunch with But frank was An original gemini seven commander and he also flew on apollo eight. He was near force a test pilot and of course as he is better known to many people he was the ceo of eastern airlines A name That has you know kind of evaporated into history but that was That was many moons ago that eastern one under fat. Come to think of it. I think they went under around the same time that midway did for me. So maybe the early ninety s Oh my gosh. i just dated myself tonight. Well doesn't matter now But anyway frank borman is is ninety three. Happy birthday frank. Yeah absolutely happy. Birthday and say d. Rob thank you. Thank you fifty s. Good age all right. You wear it. Well hurry. what's up with the geeks Couple of things Oh i just Recorded a episode of the podcasts. With mary kirby we talk about some interesting topics. One is the i add poll on traveler expectations. Which polled the. They base their Their study on arrival po and a departure poll and they asked the number questions about people's travel thoughts in this sort of cova pandemic world. So we we talk about that. We always talk about a pacific They're talking about not requiring passengers in life. Flat cabins to wear a mask while sleeping so we talk about that a little bit. We can understand. Maybe how some people would think that was kind of elitist or something so we talk about that. It's mythical cosc- i can tell you. I have never been able to lie flat or seen anybody lie flat in an airplane. It's one of those in the cloud. Miss you know like unicorns and you know nobody gets asleep lying rainbows and unicorns on an airplane and we also talk about green aviation. Some of the technologies that are being developed in what. The outlook is for them. How to supersonic flight fit in with those two. So that's the packs podcasts. That's episode seventy four. We'll have linked to that in the show notes. And i just wanted to mention real quick You know. I've mentioned that. I have this Vanity page but thirty thousand feet dot com. And i still have the directory of aviation podcasts. In there and a lot of people have been looking at that lately and in fact Providing me with some Some omissions some podcasts. That weren't in the directory that need to but because so many people are using it. And because it's so easy these days in like course about ten minutes i bought aviation podcast directory dot com and it just redirects to the the metal directory aviation podcast. Directory dot com. If you're interested in seeing several dozens of dozens of aviation podcasts. That are out there. That's the motivation. That originally got you into this right. Yeah well yeah the old thirty thousand feet directory. We've got that. That's that's gone except for the aviation. Podcasts when did you put that up. I back ninety six nineteen ninety-six while yeah the early days of the worldwide. You know the reason. I did that was because i had. I wanted to figure the tacking could say again. It's hacking i wanted to figure out. How does this worldwide web thing worked so well one way to do that is to make a web page and i needed. You know if you're gonna make a web page you gotta have a topic. So i said well you know it's kinda it's kind of this pre google know search engines. There are few around but they weren't very good. It was hard to find aviation resources websites on the web so I'd gotten pretty handy at that. It started out as just know one one page. That was apparently so impressive. That i was a usa today site of the day of the week or something like that which Drove a lot of traffic to me. But do yeah. But i kept going and going and going and i ended up with something. Like twenty thousand aviation links in. They're all categorized. She's yeah which was so the airplane accessories own energizer bunny. Who's the do you recall. We- we didn't google things. There was alta vista netscape browser right. Yeah yeah wow and the young folks listening going. What are those old guys. So i know so aviation podcast. Directory dot com. All right. max trescott. What's up with you these days. Well i was a guest on the airline pilot guy podcast. This week's episode for sixty three had great fun with the crew over there. Captain jeff Dr steph and the captain. Nick miami rick was not on a he was Had something else going on at that point so that was great fun. I mean what a warm group of funny people was they. Are you know very welcoming and hilaria. So i encourage folks to go on over and take a listen to it. If you haven't heard the airline pilot guy podcast they of course focus Pretty much on the airlines Though dr steph is a g. pilot so that brings in some of the the aspect of it as well. And by the way. While i was there i mentioned one thing that i had learned from their prior episode. Which was that Mike who we all know had been on. Leo laporte twit podcast this week at technology podcast in. Apparently he's been on a number of times in the past. And so whenever mike and goes on the show he mentions this podcast and the airline pilots guy and leo seems to think that those are his podcast when i first joined the guy. No of course. Not but did mike try to change his mind We're probably knots then. Of course not anybody can change. Leo laporte mind well but you can also understand how leo has so many things going on that. He might not catch that little less. Subtlety but i was joking with the folks on the airline pilots. Guy that. I work on micheals other. Podcasts geeks podcast. So that was we had fun joking about the two of you know all of us. Being working for formica podcasts. Yeah that's great. That's funny that you wanted to raise. Those guys are great. I love those guys airline pilot guy all right. Let's see rob. What do you have going on these days aviation wise well sits. We're all mentioning. Who was where. And and other people involved. I mean The fullerton airline. I'm sorry the fullerton pilots association out there on the west coast in california where the sun never sets Heard me On one of max's episodes and aviation newstalk and invited me to To give a presentation tomorrow night About We're we're talking about via far flight into imc conditions as a an faa safety seminar so Thank you captain max for well. Actually you didn't say anything good about me you just let me blab and they thought that working so but i'm looking forward to it. It sounds like a really Another good bunch of people so they're gonna zoom meeting or something like that Yes i guess. I could have had a bud. Buzz light year. That would have been a great great intro but now it would seem like i'd taken it from some okay. Hurry launch pad murray. What's going on with you. Oh it's a full week coming up this saturday. I've been asked to bring the faulk wolf out to the bluebonnets airshow and burnet texas. And i'll see if i can get some reports from some of the this is kind of pre show or i should say because traditionally sunan fund is the start of the airshow season Little one day show then. I want to remind our listeners. That are playing tags giveaway. Still going on goto motel art dot com or plane tags dot com. Get us a screenshot or the web address of your favourite piece of furniture. Which i mail it to us at the gate. The geeks at the airplane geeks dot com and tell us which of the four keychains. You want or luggage tags. Because we're giving away four of them. And oh by the way i looked them up combined value those things over three hundred dollars that were given away of those plane tax. A pretty cool deal again. Send your entry to the geeks at the airplane. Geeks dot com close close. The geek sat airplane geeks dot com. Oh sorry but you you were pretty close also while you're there plane tags dot com. We've got a discount code for it if you don't feel lucky enough to win when you can buy one. There's a fifteen percent off discount code by typing the word airplane geeks at checkout. We wanna thank plane tags for letting us have a discount code Now if you and that's repeated also in our slack page. Oh their slack. Hey if you want to continue the conversation you should send us a notice to the geeks at airplane. Geeks dot com to get an invite to the slack. That's where we have discussion groups and also the the conversation keeps going it's a gar- it's a closed gardens enough to worry about advertising or any of that other stuff and including we're starting up an f. One fantasy league in the random section. 'cause f one's coming out and it's going to pretty good and in fact the winner this year again. We'll get a set of german chocolate bars. Smuggled from germany and the last thing is we mentioned earlier from sun and fund. The airplane geeks will be live wednesday april fourteenth eighteen hundred hours on sunday and fund radio and repeated on live. Akc dot net. If you're at sun and fund. Stop by and see us. We want to see what your face looks like. You can see what the voices in our head like. I'll be the handsome one. Rob will be the real old one g. Are you going rob. I'm not confirmed yet. It's flying still hasn't made a decision about what what's gonna happen so it's anybody's get. I probably nancy would sign you a note for mental health. Visit little getaway right now after having been cooped up for six weeks. I don't believe she would let me go anywhere. Warm without how could smart lady so now. We're bringing both gay debbie. Yeah yeah plus. I'm going to bring some. I'm going to bring some airplane. Geeks t shirts down there. So that'd be another motivation to search us out at the radio station. Are they the fresh ones this time where you go to give away used ones like you did these fretful years ago and you know what well. What's what's different this time rob. Since the from the last time i saw you down there is i bought. I got some Some two x t shirts last time. Extra-large was the largest. I had and turns out that a lot of aviators won't fit into. Excel t shirt. So we two x t shirts now. So look for us. And i'll have german chocolate. Anybody comes up and finds me in the crowd or listen to them and we'll give you some smuggled german chocolate kit. Can you say that. On on live. Radio i mean. Aren't you afraid the federal come and get you. Hey if you can sneak onto an airplane for nothing and the it's the cotton come out with your hands up all right. Hey we've got a shoutout. We heard from andrea and she Made us aware of something Film a hybrid documentary action films called journey to royal a world war two rescue mission. And this is It's an interesting story. It's a historical story and one of the things that makes this guy unique is that it was filmed using real planes From the palm springs air museum and the march field air museum as well as some recreated models. But it's It's available now. You can stream it on some cable platforms. Dvd if you do that but the story takes place during the second world war it's about the fourth emergency rescue squadron and they were stationed in the south pacific and those crews police flightpaths searching for b twenty nine bombers downed airmen. All of that folks who needed rescue in the open ocean and so they really took a of effort to be historically accurate the producers said the she says we recreated rafts and mae west life fast. We hand sewed costumes and made props everything in this film is historically accurate. So we'll put a link in the show notes to the trailer. There's also an abc affiliate story that That covers this. The website is journey to royal dot com and based on the trailer. It looks It looks awfully awfully interesting. But she also provided some of those statistics from that fourth emergency rescue squadron and they flew eight hundred and sixty two rescue missions. Six thousand hours of flying time. They had eighty nine direct rescues. Four hundred eighty seven assisted rescues. So it's a total of five hundred and seventy six lives were saved which is just phenomenal. So check it out details in the show notes. Thanks for passing that along to us andrea and just think about five hundred seventy six lives and how many grandchildren are now here. That two wouldn't have been if these people hadn't been rescued thousands and thousands right exactly exactly Now last episode we gave. I think it was last episode. We gave mike some homework. We gave them a homework assignment because we had talked about the aci awards the airports council international awards and how the The jet port in portland had been one of the Airports receiving those awards. But we weren't able to find the list of all the award winners so mike Talked to paul bradberry at the the jet port and mica says he got back with ten minutes. There's customer service for. He says But he pass along the link to the world's best airports for customer experience. So we'll put that in the show notes so thanks mica for being that out. Thanks paul for for supporting us with that information and it lists worldwide all the airports and the in different categories based on size basically. Who won this Award from airports council international. This year. And i i think these are the awards for twenty twenty. Maybe twenty twenty one. I think these are the twenty twenty awards. We could always just say the latest better than lovers. That's much pay and you know what. My favorite category is from these awards. The best gene cleveland airport. I guess i i suppose but just to let you know here in the united states It was apparently a tie. Because they've got atlanta new orleans san antonio tampa well and also toronto victoria so here in north america. We've we've got multiple ties for best hygiene. so congratulations. yeah absolutely hygiene. Is everything these days all right. Thank you for listening to the airplane. Geeks podcast our guest. Was loretta hall. She wrote her. She captured the Memoir of wally funk the amazing wally funk in in the book higher faster longer my life aviation in my quest for spaceflight and you can learn more about that that Wally fly dot com w. a. l. l. y. f. l. y. dot com. Of course you can find us at airplane. Geeks dot com the direct link for the show notes for this episode is airplane geeks dot com slash. Six four five couple of quickies. Don't forget our listener poll from episode six hundred and forty three. That's where we ask. Who would you like to see win. The collier trophy and you can find that. Poll at airplane geeks dot com slash poll. Six four three. Who like to see when the collier trophy. There's a list there so you just check the one you like best. Don't forget our plane tags drawing That launchpad mentioned and because the deadline for that is the end of month. Assist march so we'll get those Those to us by the march put plane tags in the subject field. If you would and again send us a photo or a screen grab of your favorite moto art item or or tag and the actual tags that we're giving away our in episode six hundred and forty three. You see a picture there so if you want. You can list your order of preference. Should you be selected and will try to give those those four tags out and get as many people Their their preferred tag as possible rate. Think that's just about it. All our our email again is geeks. Airplane geeks dot com. He and max trescott waking we find more of you. Well the usual ace You listen to podcasts. So you can certainly find aviation newstalk it. Whatever place you go to get podcasts and if you wanna shoot me an email just go onto aviation news. Talk dot com. Click on contact at the top of the page and shoot me. An email and launch pad mars ari. I'm on facebook as launch padmore. Sorry i'm on twitter. As pilot launchpad and then of course here at the geeks at launch pad. The airplane geeks dot com and on our slack. Listener team you can be part of it very good. And how about you rob mark. Certainly flying mag dot com Add jet wind dot com Let's see we're else At home a whole lot the last six weeks take care of a an ailing wife who is certainly on the menendez. My friends say in britain. Very good yeah. We wish her the the best. Hope you're taking good care of her rob she. She said i have been and she's going to give me report card very so right. We'll we'll we intend to publish it. I wouldn't that be in both of you. Be careful walking on the ice out there. Oh man slipping and you can find me at thirty thousand feet dot com all words There you can find links to the podcasts. the Social media places right. Hang out in all of that so please join us again next week as we talk aviation on. The airplane geeks podcast. Everybody keep the blue side up night. Everybody frequency change approved.

wally funk faa wally Ntsb Loretta jerry nasa loretta hall national space society flying magazine Cobb Air capital gecas max trescott Meyer brothers Mar zari rob mark jerry cobb david vanderhoek loretta loretta hall downhill ski
The Future of Pharma Data, AI, and Drug Development - with Glen de Vries of Medidata

Artificial Intelligence in Industry

25:04 min | 10 months ago

The Future of Pharma Data, AI, and Drug Development - with Glen de Vries of Medidata

"This is Dan Fidel and you're listening to the AI in business podcast. This is our Tuesday episodes. You know what we're GONNA BE DIVING INTO A I use cases. That's what we do here. Every single Tuesday and we like to keep some strong variety in the mix. We've had venture capitalists on recently in our Tuesday episodes, we have had leaders of a vendor companies and this week we speak with the founder of a multibillion dollar firm Glenda. Vries was the CO founder of Meta data. A firm founded nearly twenty years ago or slightly over twenty years ago, which was recently sold to salt systems for close to six billion dollars on that is. Is An. Awfully lofty achievement for Glenn our guest, and it also gives him a really interesting perspective on the state and the future of data in the life sciences domain. Glenn has some strong ideas from his past in life, sciences data as well as we're aiming to take the company into the future as to how the data ecosystem in life, sciences will evolve, and how companies will be able to maybe pull together data or work with data in new ways to glean better insights, hopefully deliver better business results in better outcomes for patients, as well meditated may not have been doing a from day one, but as the name implies working with data. Data is. Is there ground up game and I think there's hardly anybody beyond Glenn who would have a deeper perspective on the exact topic. We're talking about today. I should know that experts like Glenn again. Founders of companies that sell for six billion dollars or not exactly easy folks to get a hold of we try to get the highest the loftiest perspectives that we can on the program. If you like what you're hearing here on the I am business podcast. It would mean the World Feta. Leave us a review on apple podcasts. It used to be called I tunes I. Think it's changed its name, but if you drop us a review, they're. They're not only to sometimes I. I like to include those in our email. Newsletters mentioned some of the kind things people say about us, but it's great feedback that helps us know. What do people like most drops a five-star. Let us know what you want to see. More of what you really like about the program and I hope that insights from folks like Glenn Are Really GonNa. Help you drive results in your own business as well without further. Ado I want to jump right into this episode. Glenn brought some great energy and excited to get this one live. Let's kick it off as Glenn with Meta data. You're on the and business podcast. So Glenn Are we're GonNa talk a bit about the future. And we're in this wild time in your industry with the corona virus, but I wanted ground us in the now. When when you look even in the space for twenty years you look at where data are starting to transform processes in life sciences. How do you like to frame it? What's the state of affairs today? So I think if you. If you look at what happens in life sciences outside of data, we just look. People, the big trend that we're seeing is it's good trend. That's the world I. WanNa live in as a patient. Therapies are getting more. Effective therapies are getting safer, and it's because they're being designed very different. Way used to be that you try to create a therapy that worked for as many people as you possibly could, and you would maybe high fiving in the hallways. If you right for Outta ten patients, you know this. This was the world of the blockbuster drugs, and it was about as imprecise as possible like a patient has a blood pressure over this. Give him this drug. Patients got cholesterol over that. Give them this other drug, and now as you start to get into these more effective therapies because they're more precise. Actually start to create an interesting data problem, and that is you start to have smaller and smaller denominators. If I'm starting to in well, this drug isn't district people who have a blood pressure over this. They also need to have this gene. They also need to have or not have this pre existing condition. ETC, acceptance every time I come up with more criteria. The pool of patients who are going to bed. And remember. We're making things that people take. They put in their bodies, and we've to make sure that they're safe. Not just effective, and there's a good way regulatory bodies who are protecting that safety and efficacy. So now as these patient pools, who will benefit therapies get smaller. We also have smaller smaller pool of people who we can use from a research perspective would be volunteering. Stoke the specificity, which is great means that we have a scarcity of patients that we've got to deal with a new way and I think that's been driving at least I have a very kind of drug development centric view of the world. About a drug discovery. Can I find a new molecule I really focus on the will what do I? Do if I think I've got something that's going to cure this kind of cancer. Think about making more evidence, but with fewer people line. Smaller denominators I think that's a big piece of what's driving the data landscape in life sciences. The other thing that I'll tell you which is kind of interesting, is that the life sciences industry has not been really good about data, standardization and a guy. He was a big influence in the way I think about data medi data chief data officer starting from about five years ago, his name's David, Lee and He came out of the insurance industry. Any any taught me that data standardization. Doesn't sound sexy, but until you do that, you can't benchmark until you do that. You create a predictive model and the life. Sciences Industry hasn't been great about data standardization because everybody was doing stuff for this one drug in this one area, and so I see people outside of Medi data as well, but certainly the kind of stuff that we do is we try to use AI to climb that data value curve. How do we a figure out how to standardize data in different ways data from different sources about different things? Let me just give you one quick tangent example. I got asked very kindly to speak at a conference about Ab-. Stroke and I do not know anything about cardiology like I did cancer research before we started medi data I'm comfortable talking about oncology, so I figured I better. Get ahead of it if they're asked me to. Present and I got up on stage and I said listen I. Don't know anything about stroke. But if I was speaking to a bunch of oncologists, and they were trying to build a predictive model around cancer diagnosis, and they were only looking at cancer research. They're not going to be very successful because everybody already has cancer in those research studies, but if you were to be able to go and look at large-scale cardiology studies, stroke studies studies about hard tax. If I were to go, pull data from studies research about diabetes. Then I'm going to know what those patients looked like before their cancer diagnosis, and then I can start to use. Use that to build that model so when you put that Lens on things, you realize I need to standardize data across a lot of different kinds of patients and a lot of different kinds of research patients who are in research. I have to stack the deck. I don't mean that in a various way create to create the biggest possible denominator to create the most evidence generating. Data set that I can, and even just generating that data set requires ai tool sometimes, and then once you got that data set. I think probably inherently obviously you. You've got more traditional statistical tools and methods with frankly work great and a lot of the shared also can start to apply things like machine learning neural that works and look for look for signal that you might have missed or enhanced signal. That wasn't there traditionally so I. I do think that's happening I. Feel Pretty Good. There's a lot more we. We can do, but we're. We've started as an industry getting that right. Yeah, until there's couple of things to poke into here I. Like the landscape paint I'm going to dive into a couple of things. You mentioned one of which was around standardization, so yeah, I mean what a tough problem! I think everybody. We've interviewed in healthcare. You guys are in Pharma. If I was ever GONNA be selling a product, probably said the six time on the podcast never be selling artificial intelligence solutions to hospitals like a break one. One of the Pharma companies, but in healthcare, broadly whether they be life, sciences, or or diagnostics, or whatever the case may be just data, being goofy, and like in silos and locked up and not uniform sort of this big ubiquitous issue is this when you talk about the standardization, clearly from what I understand of our look into companies like the MERCS and the bears of the world. They're beginning to try to do this with their own big corpus's of historical information, whatever being able to streamline things so that it's. It's findable, maybe not machine readable yet. They don't necessarily know where that's going to add value just yet in most cases, but but at least make it more uniform. Is this something that the industry is GonNa have to get to the same page from kind of a regulatory or kind of soft law level, or is this just per company? We're GONNA have to come up with data governance policies within our firm and just be really steady about those across silos. Like how do you see this rolling out? Yeah, so? Well I. DO think that individual companies are working on that, but I also think that there's industry organizations. There's commercial entities. My own included who are trying to do that beyond the walls of an individual company and I think we're GONNA have to I. Don't think the data that one company has is going to be sufficient. Across all the use cases that we'd not just a good idea commercially, but we have a medical ethical obligation to create the best care possible when data sets and I do think that the data quality is a really important thing to think about if if it's a a regulatory prescriptive method of doing it or the way regulation works today, which is demonstrate to people that you've done a responsible set of work to standardize things and prove it, but a lot of people will point a finger at regulators and say they're slowing down innovation, sometimes particularly and Pharma and I do not believe. believe that at all regulators. Job Isn't to be like Glen, you're a great guy, so you know I believe what all your data and Algorithms put out. No job is to protect the public health and say Glenn proved to me on paper that you did something that was scientifically ethically responsible to jobs. Is So so i? Think if that requirement is there? What you'll see is individual companies trying to solve this on their own, and I've seen this before in life, science space with other technology things, even just the management data used to be every company tried to do it their way. Out of their basement, and then twenty years later, this medi data do Thanh, research and again we're not the only company doing it, but you see platform providers that are doing it at a larger scale so when I see everybody trying to do it individually get excited because that means that there's actually a market demand for that. And you're creating a marketplace where the best technologies, the best rhythms, the best data sources will create something that more and more people will come onto, and that's how that's everybody clearly. I think we could extrapolate that for those of you. Listening into almost any industry right I think people say this. Even about I'm just GONNA throw some random stuff at ya like automotives. Hey, if we're GONNA make safe self driving cars. Do we want Ford my develop something about some certain snowy driving circumstance like there's GonNa. Be Some things that are going to have to be transferable so that everybody's safer on the dam road and with drugs. Maybe it's the same way. Business Opportunities Hey if we can be the ones who even through kind of soft news. Can Be. The folks that people rely on to develop a system instruct sure that's going to build a really sticky market position in clearly from a business perspective. That's that's an appeal as well part of the challenge see in life, sciences and I know you've obviously you guys have dealt with this and found ways around or whatever there's there's a way to frame it, but you know I. Look at companies like we just did a piece on Johnson and Johnson for example looking at some of their current innovations and investments today I. Frankly we. We don't see a tremendous amount, but they're involved in a consortium called Melody Out in Europe somewhere from not mistaken where Santa a bunch of other big players are from what I understand exposing a certain amount of data is being trained on in some aggregate sense in everybody's GonNa get a little bit of the benefit from it. How do we do this? Hey, we all have the same uniform stuff. Hey, we're able to kind of like mould things across companies. How do we do that without giving away the secret sauce, because of course? Clearly as a drug development firm that there's a humanitarian side, and then clearly we have to make payroll in in. That would mean that we've got to keep some of the things that are secret. So how do we uniform things and maybe cross pollinate without the risk of US losing her crowned jewels yet? So that is not an easy thing to do I'm I'm super appreciative of it. The way we've at least tried to tackle that problem is by creating like a give to get dynamic. There are definitely companies out there that sell data. And I think there's a great place for them in the world. Probably doing and we'll do some awesome stuff I. think there's there's a great place in the world for not for profit groups who say hey just throw your data. Here will create naturally yet. For sure, that's all all good, but I also think there's a place for a model where you say look if you put your data into this, what is effectively proprietary bucket, but with a third party that you trust and let that third party that make sure that everybody who's putting their data into that pool is protected in terms of not showing the specifics of your individual data points, so in your example. You know Sanofi doesn't see Johnson and Johnson's data. But you've got enough people in there that you can do things in aggregate and let people compare their own specific data to the more generalized bigger denominator that Medi date, or whoever it is or you and it's done at the standardization is done for you in a way that this transparent and you can believe in the results I think that's a really interesting commercial model, and then must exist in other industries I just not an expert. Well, it's. The way you're talking about it makes it sound like it's kind of a Nathan idea, even for you guys where it's like well. We think that there could be a space for this like it's something that could have all right. It's like an I believe you're right I, think actually it absolutely. Could I just think you Mr Glanton? Whoever your your absolute best partnership guys, you know you'd better be drinking beers or some of these people because there's a lot of trust that goes into those kind of relationships. So. There's a lot of trust that goes along in life sciences anywhere for sure yet. You're dealing with data about patients in some way. Holly anybody in medicine right has a person's life in their hands, but if if we're working on a vaccine for SARS, come to I, mean literally billions of people are going to get it like you've got billions of lives in. In your hands, so he's already. A lot of trust is important in our industry and I. do think that what will see by the way. There's posters at scientific sessions that we've done. There's clients right now are taking some of these aggregated data sets to regulators, and they're using them to demonstrate exactly what I was saying before. Their drugs are safe and effective. But with different kind of aggregated denominator, we call it a synthetic control arm, and it's not that is android senator anything synthesis out of the people it, synthesizing people who are in lots of different research studies into a cohort they can be used as. As a valid competitor to the patients who you treated with your new drought, Nisa solving that problem, you're saying of the narrowness if you have some super niche allergy medication for people with a certain kind of whatever then yeah, maybe you really need to extrapolate in that kind of uniform data, way and and kind of square that circle that you. And I actually think that not only by I know this is happening. See it happening, but this is a harbinger of things to come because. I gave. Let's take it to its most extreme, so in all US oncology, because it's happening there I and cancer, but I think it's going to happen in almost every therapeutic area, probably even like analgesics, and what the next tylenol is, but we are all so interestingly I mean at biologically individual and people talk about cancer therapy, and almost every patient really is like an end of one problem. There is nobody who has your. Your exact same tumor right in your tumor has probably different kinds of cells that have different mutations even within this one problem in your body. So when you start to think about that, we have to use these techniques to extrapolate what the best therapy is for every single person at the right time down to individual. We're going to need as an industry and I'm not just talking about now. Life Sciences although I think by scientists. Imprint part of the for sure. It's GonNa. Pay For a lot of this Oh. Yeah, sure I sure, but but these mathematical models that we used to figure out what to do for individuals there being born right now using these techniques stacking up all this data and figuring out how to use as a group. We're GONNA use that against individuals, so this stacking I'm just going to clarify this point will move into the next question, but I wanNA nutshell this for the audience the stacking is it sounded almost like a combination of two things one if we can have some. Unification, around the data, we can combine it in certain ways where nobody's giving away their secret sauce, but maybe we were able to get bigger cluster of people who have a specific genetic condition, or whatever, and then use that for for our clinical trials. That's one side of it. You also mentioned Kinda the synthetic sort of element. was that kind of like you know what immediately came to my mind? was you know we're we're? We're training an algorithm to read handwriting. You know we'll come up with a bunch of programmatic generated handwriting. That might be slight variations of things like using that I. Don't think that's what you. You meant there, but what? What did you mean by synthetic again? No, so you got that stack. We've got stack of every patient and I'm coming to see you I say all right well. What am I going to treat Glenn while I got to figure out because Glenn's unique. WHO's similar to Glen and so what you do? Is You build these kind of like Matrix views, patients and you start to use algorithms to compare Glenn with everybody in the stack. Yeah Okay Okay you, you pull those people out of the stack, and you then synthesize them into a group of smaller stack, but that is purpose built. To make a guess about what to do best for Glenn Don or all them. You synthesize one of these smaller stacks from the big one to use as a competitor the same way if I had a group of patients who I gave my new drug to and I'll give another group of patients a placebo sugar pill right I, compare them with like. Well, should I be giving people sugar pills if we have tons of people who are in research, who already gotten the standard of care? Can I reset the CISE? Those people into a comparative instead of exposing a whole bunch of volunteer patience to something that. Does, not effective, and that's the synthesis of the group. Yeah, it's not robots. You're not talking about programmatic degenerate I wasn't suspecting were so. It is it is quite interesting. Because the direct analogy, some of our listeners are avid readers that emerged dot com, always covering use cases in different industries. We think about how a net flicks or Amazon does recommendations you know. You're stripping, you know. In their case, it's purchase behavior. Geo Location whatever else for you. It's genetic stuff in health history, whatever and yeah, you just find in those similar clusters and being able to extrapolate a little bit. You know the movie Gatica. People haven't seen it like the ideas like your DNA decides whether or not you're going to be an astronaut or somebody who's cleaning, toilets or something, cleaning toilets, and of course, of course, that's patently ludicrous, because your genes interestingly don't change that much there. In instances where mutations and things, but actually I I can't tell you much more about your health today than I could have told you about your health the day you. You were born because it's a static data. Set Your Connecticut Right. That is a very simple view of it. There's a lot more elaborate stuff, but if you think about all the stuff that is changing about you overtime, Gina Type, and then all of your phenotype, and you start to measure that stuff and you start to think about it. It really is a problem of finding not one needle, but the right ten. Ten needles in the haystack that allow us to make the best comparison between Glen or a group of patients and patients like them, and that's another place where these artificial intelligence tools are used, so we use them to create stacks, but we also use them to select the right needles out of those haystacks to create these comparative groups Yup I. See those reasonable applications I would be you know. BE FRANK WITH YOU IF If that struck me as not possible based on precedents and other industries, but that clustering strikes me as quite possible, particularly solve that data harmonisation issue. I mean that's a Lotta. The crux of it I know we're just about to wrap up I know you have seen a lot of things change with covid nineteen. Thinking about what that means for the future of your industry. Any closing thoughts before we wrap on. What this means for now in the near future in life sciences. Yes so at the risk of making Not Look that good? Because, I'm definitely including myself in this criticism wouldn't have been nice if we had all that patient data stacked up. And I mean they're. They're few million patients around the world who are in studies on the Medi Data Platform. It's all different companies doing the research with their data, but can you imagine if we had that stack? And we were paying attention to in the hundred fifty countries that we do research knowing some of these patients, genetics, and all of their pheno types in a better way than we normally do in medicine, because we see them consistently wouldn't have been great for layer on like who seems to be coming down with cove nineteen I mean no, no, no, no doubt, no young. And I think that that that's an interesting. You put like an exclamation point on why we need to do this. It's like there's an ethical imperative, not just a commercial driver to think about data in different ways. Yeah, yeah, well. To some degree you know my thought is like what you're articulating makes a tremendous amount of sense. Given Your Business Model. It makes slightly less if I work at Bayer. However like despite the biased tilt, I do understand the value prop and I do think that it is compelling and I think it does feel like it'll have to be the future. People are not going to keep distance silos forever. I do think it make sense. Air Because, if you if pharmaceutical a pharmaceutical company B. comes out with the same effectively drug, and and they're competing for the same group of patients, and neither of them knows that you might be better off taking drug Abe before drug be or drug be is better in a certain kind of of patient than drug. As than actually, you are not serving your customer and you're. You're not generating the revenue that you could be generating, and so you should be motivated with other companies to lineup tightly. In terms of what is the best way to treat patients I actually think it's in your best interest. i. e Clayton clearly is I mean there's a little bit more potentially to lose while in your firm, it's it's almost explicitly to game but I. I think he'd do things like you see things like melody you see companies like yours have been tremendously successful. You guys were acquired recently. You know massive congratulations for that and yes I think long term it's not against their interests by any means, and hopefully I think Glenn. It'll be part of the future. I know these are things you've thought about for. People are interested. Interested in some Glenn stocks is a book coming out in August called the patient equation by Wiley. It's about precision medicine in the age of Covid nineteen and beyond Glenn. If people are interested in in stay in touch following your thoughts, we live sciences I. Know We have a lot of people that follow that space. Where should they go on the web to find you? Cou. You could find me on twitter, etc, at captain, clinical a fictitious superhero for good science. And meditated accomplish our website for anybody interested. There's all kinds of papers and men links to publications. We do academic stuff, too, so it's not all commercial awesome, all right, very good Glenn Hey. Thanks so much you joining us in the podcast. This is fun today. Thanks. So that's all for this episode of the A in business podcast big thanks to Glen for being able to join us on this episode and share some of his insights and future perspective. If you aren't already be surely you're following us on social. It's just at E. M.. E. R. J. on twitter or you can find emerge artificial intelligence research on link interface spoken. You can follow our pages to get updates, not only on our latest podcast soon as they go live, but also in all of our latest articles, research and any free white papers. Papers that we come out with for our audience and our subscribers, so be sure to stay tuned on social. Follow us there if you're not already and stay tuned for Thursday's, we get into are making the business case episode. which is what we do. Every Thursday here saw catch you in two days and looking forward to seeing you back on the show.

Glenn Glen cancer apple Johnson founder AI Dan Fidel Glenn Vries diabetes Europe twitter Glenda CO founder
pisode #29  Crer sa vie avec le cycle menstruel #2: Relcher & couter avec Corinne

Conversations pour Elle, partages de sagesse féminine

14:59 min | 6 months ago

pisode #29 Crer sa vie avec le cycle menstruel #2: Relcher & couter avec Corinne

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#62 Test befolkningen, f de ut i jobb!

Liberaleren Podcast

19:05 min | 1 year ago

#62 Test befolkningen, f de ut i jobb!

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Why You Should Skip Delivery Apps And Other Ways To Support Local Businesses

Curious City

13:27 min | 3 months ago

Why You Should Skip Delivery Apps And Other Ways To Support Local Businesses

"Hey this is curiosity audio producer steven jackson and i'm here with monica Pay stan hey monica so on today's episode. We're going to answer a question about what people can do to support small business. Yep and i'm gonna talk to a top chef about the things she's doing to support chicago restaurants and the greater community during the pandemic. That's all coming up so monica we all know that cova has changed just about everything about everyone's life but today we're gonna talk about one group. That's really struggling. Lets small businesses. Yeah a lot of small business. An illinois have hit a super tough time of it during the pandemic and it's something that has been weighing on question. Asker mike who herrick. He says he always tries to support small local businesses and so it really struck him last year. When manny's you know the connex chicago deli famous for its corned. Beef sandwiches reached out to a local blog and said they could really use some business and maybe really think. How can i best. No when i need to help my local community a restaurants and businesses before they hit the point of no return where they're forced to close well. That's a great question. Unfortunately we found out. It's not super easy to know when small businesses are on the brink. But when mike also wanted to know was how he can support small local businesses. Right now in general. And you've been reporting on this. What have you found. Well i talked to a bunch of people who represent some of the most vulnerable industries like dry cleaning restaurants beauty shops and bookstores. And they gave me some pretty unexpected tips. We're gonna put the whole list on our website. Wbz dot org slash curious city. But i'm going to share a few of them with you here right now. So let's start with bookstores. we we'll obviously. You can get gift cards or stuff. But did you know you can also get audio and e books from your local bookstore you can pre-order titles from something. You really wanted to get in the future or your favorite author and you can get memberships memberships to look bookstore. That i'd never heard of dan. Colin at the american booksellers association told me more about this. A lot of bookstores now have membership subscription services. So that every month for instance you could receive a first edition of title. That's been really curated for you based on what you've told them you're interested in from insightful. Knowledgeable bookseller that's cool. It's like those book recommendation tags that you see like the physical book shows you know back when we go to the store honestly it sounds like a lot of pressure to read but it worked for some people okay. Who else did you talk to will. I also called up the professional beauty association. They represent all kinds of salons and nail spas and barbers and they gave me a bunch of tips. Like you can buy your product directly through your local salon like your hair gel or pants shampoo. You can buy gift cards or recommend the salon to a friend. But aaron walter at the association also told me about this thing i'd never heard of it's called a virtual consultation so like onsumer facetime or something. Yeah it's not like they're going to do your hair and reach their hand through and fix it but they can look at you and your hair and your face and see just how out of control things might have gone during the pandemic and give you some advice. Here's your walter. Just the way that you're able to see each other and connect conversation but also kind of show what you look like now in different ways that you can damage that if you were interested in looking at different styles or different ways that you can manage your hair while at home especially for like routes like how can i deal with my roots or some styles that might help kind of cover up your roots during this time will. I'm not personally concerned about roots. It has been a long time since. I've gotten any sort of haircut or hair treatment so i'm going to consider this one. Yeah give it. A shot. And to question nascar michael's point about those restaurants. Yeah it is hard to know. Who's harding right now. But there are some good programs that can pretty much help a lot of restaurants that are still out there. Some of them target black owned restaurants female owned restaurants local restaurants with these online campaigns for support. One of in oak park is so popular. It's being modeled all over the country What's that one. How does that work well. It's called takeout. Twenty five and people pledged to spend twenty five bucks a week at oak park and river forest restaurants. Thousands of people have already signed up and they also have this site where they tell you about daily and weekly specials and cool things to eat at local places they said. It's really been helping the local economy. This program sounds really cool. And personally i already spent twenty five bucks a week on delivery so i wish someone would do this in chicago and speaking of restaurants after the break. You're going to check in with a local chef about what it's like to be running a restaurant these days yep and also what she's doing to help the community that's coming up. Curious city is supported by goose island now offering accustomed three one two can inspired by and brewed four chicago restaurant workers and giving back to the community through the chicago restaurant worker relief fund available at select locations throughout so i recently talked to chef. Beverly kim she co owns the award winning parachute and wherewithal restaurants with her husband. Johnny clarke kim was born and raised in the chicago area and started out as a prep cook but she rose to become one of the few female chef owners on our restaurant scene. She give me some great tips on how to help restaurants at this time but she also told me about these cool project. She's working on to help women and the larger community started out by asking. This mom of three young boys power restaurants are doing right now. It's been a very difficult year. The restaurant is surviving. we're actually operating parachute out of worth hall offering takeout. It does alright because we've learned how to manage the small staff that we have and obviously having a smaller team is actually feel safer us feels consistent. Kim owns the restaurant with our chef husband. Johnny clarke but she says she's also developed this new support system during the pandemic. It's with twenty six other local women who lead chicago restaurants in a group called. Let's talk for each other through like cross marketing doing events together. We also like get great information from each other regarding like any kind of question like where plexiglass where to get covid testing in human resources. You name it. There's nothing normal in the restaurant business anymore and our goal is to lose as little money as possible. She says they're not just helping each other with practical stuff emotionally just having that support knowing that you're not alone struggling having a hard time with everything from the health risks Pressures to like what are people doing differently. Like with sanitary measures and things like that and then just having honest conversations about how are people are they going to go back to the new normal when we reopen. But kim didn't just wanna help other restaurant owners. She wanted to help the greater community problem was she didn't know where to start but she knew someone who did. Fellow restaurant owner edmark zukowski. He runs kinski and bridgeport which has been doing some pretty cool meal relief programs. He connected with a project to cook weekly meals for one hundred and fifty people in need and this letter pairs staff through the project and help the community. Food security is higher than it's ever been before we have all these empty kitchens because of covid in just makes me think how it's a great way to put the slide energy of self pity and just feeling depressed about our situation and putting it to something that is positive and that gave her the confidence to start a new nonprofit called abundance setting where she cooks for working moms in the food industry and drop off three family meals a week and it's us actually clicking like directly for them planning the meals nutritious meals and it's a lot of work very fulfilling and then on top of that doing the canteen model that canteen model is a lunch service. Where folks pay what they can for her simple chef meals like sweet and savory grits sandwiches she says some people feel bad about picking up the food because worried that they're taking it from someone who's struggling but she says the model is actually designed to have both types of customers and facts. They were lies on it. It's combination model where you need people to actually buy it to pay it forward. Those people buy it. It's helping keeping funding going. Maybe it's a model that might need to exist even post pandemic because our restaurants not just going to bounce bath. This is gonna take some time. I feel to figure out like this. Kovic is gonna take a while another thing. She hopes will come out of this. Really bad year is a rethinking of the way people are paid in restaurants specifically the uneven pay between servers and cooks one way. She thinks we could fix. This is to get rid of tipping altogether and just charge more for the food in order to give the whole staff of fair salary and benefits. But she says the only way it can work is if a lot of restaurants sign onto the idea. Lie i for some restaurants. This is a radical thought. But it's broken right now. So as we rebuild. Maybe this is the right time to do it. In the meantime. I did ask for some pointers on how best to support restaurants at this time. Anytime you can have an opportunity to support their take-up program or milk kids. Please do that. You can use that as an opportunity to give someone use food as a gift when you take the time to take a picture and post it and tag named scarring but also we've lost that word of mouth that we get from being out in the world now so the way people really get information is really social media. Don't forget to order beverage. You know. I feel like when people think of takeout. They think of mostly food but now we have cocktails to go. We have wind to go. She also says tipping is really important right now. And if you're gonna do delivery she's as please skip the third party apps because they can charge the restaurants a lot of money and you know when we are already at zero percent profitability. It just makes sense to if you can pick up directly from a restaurant or user in house delivery program like were there actually using their own staff it would benefit them hundred percent and kim says there's one more important thing if you want to help support restaurants and the people who work there and also be gentle us right now you know you might get things forgotten in your in box and it's really. The state of the industry were doing. Our best in tinus goes along way now that we're getting close to the year mark on dealing with the pandemic. I asked him about some of the biggest lessons. She's learned and one of them really surprised her. I think realized how much i enjoy being with my kids like being at home for her and we were forced to and i was like thinking to myself. I like when we go back to things label to have dinner with them every night. Like doing now. And i feel like it forces me to rethink business structure in. What's important to you right. And so i might not wanna work like i did before i. I think i'm used to it. That's the way the industry has always been for me. But i think it's really. The stress isn't in the mental. Health is really been really difficult as a restaurant owner. And i i'm willing to do with less for more quality of life. You can find lots more tips plus the. Let's talk restaurants wherewithal canteen and abundance setting in our digital story at wbz dot org slash curious city. Curious city is supported by the conan family foundation. Our producers are joe. Dassault in stephen jackson our editors under solomon maggie. Civic is our digital producer and our intern. Is natalie deli. i'm monica. Hang an insurrection attempt at the nation's capital. If you've been paying close attention it came as no surprise. These people have been girding for civil war for subscribed to motive from. wbz chicago. Wherever you get your podcasts.

chicago stan hey monica Asker mike wbz monica professional beauty associatio aaron walter oak park nascar michael river forest restaurants steven jackson american booksellers associati cova Beverly kim Johnny clarke kim herrick Johnny clarke manny edmark zukowski goose island
Ep.154 - MOM

THE X & Y SHOW

33:15 min | 3 d ago

Ep.154 - MOM

"The pod breed network is strictly for the small podcasts. That are up and coming. In the vast world of podcasting pod breed is made up of many diverse podcasts. Coming together to achieve the same goal of being the best damn podcast network on the planet. Find out more at pod. Read dot com senate majority leader mitch. Mcconnell you listen to the x. y. Show and i think you're really enjoy Oil the opinions expressed on the x and y show are the sole opinions of the host. Please note there is no intentional desire to offend any member of the listening audience. With that said if you still feel offended tough shit. All the eggs Show with your host miss to rules. He talks about man south six late. It's six relationships. He talks about love. Sex and empathy. He even gives good tips. There is no other show is to. Oh yeah sit back. Take your clothes off and relax. It's time for the x and y show where real relationship issues are talked about an address the only place on the planet that tackles the topics that everyone wants to talk about. But no one is brave enough to address escapes x and y. Now here's your host roosevelt gobert and greetings greetings greetings. Greetings greet tweet. Mum would love. She came peace and love. Well well well. That's one of earth when fire hits. i'm not getting fill bilas done philip bailey before No can sing. And i have a falsetto and feel like embarrassing. Phil billy again. I challenged him numerous times and He won't accept my challenge. You know so. I'm not gonna go ahead and mcginn but I felt that that was a appropriate song for this week's episode. Kobe one's doing okay Is may ninth having knife. you know. i'll be the d. sometime going through this year some christmas. It's not soon because i'm just messing with somebody they know who. I'm messing with But actually we are getting to the hurricane season hurricane season. don't starting to june hurricanes. Don't have a clock so sometimes they come lurlene shit. So i'm not looking forward to the knicks four five months You know this yeah. I moved out of miami. But i'm still in florida. I want to get fuck out of florida period but It just you know had to take advantage and opportunity. It was just too good to go. So you know i'm here but i don't like Like florida job coup. But anyway i just want to. This is a special so obviously. I'm talking about moms. You know we all had them. We wouldn't be here so we all had mothers and you know. Think about the awesome power of a mother. You know i mean if you just sit down and think about this one person in your life where you feel so much love for so much loyalty for i mean every good emotion is one of the few people in your lives. Probably the only person in your life sick maybe a father but your father is not on the level of mom. You know I'm not seeing that mothers abedin father system. What i'm saying but you know your mom. Is that one person in your life that no one will ever match is far as the way you express love to them. Not even your wife. You know So they are a person that really needs to be honored right and that's why we have mother's day but you know it you know just having one day honoring your mother seems to be not seem not to be enough moms. Make such great sacrifices for the children. The first being carried him for them. Once you know carrying them around Being discomfited for nine months a year she a joke about sometimes about Birth and you know just like being constipated but joking but they carry someone around in their life for nine months of their lives if a women who had multiple kids you know they done it three four five times. You know the panel. How many kids have so. That's a lot you know. They is essentially like sitting on a missed for nine months. You know you have certain species that sin on this but the father helps out in sit on the nets A little bit of you know humans. Just female you know. The sitting on the simply synonymous for nine months so this woman really really deserve your love and she needs to be honored and for those of you still blessed to have your mom around And i should have put this episode out a lot earlier. But you know like i said. Don't wait 'til mother's day on mother. This is a woman that should be honored year. Round every day Not just on one day of the month or year rather. I'm sorry. oh your mom. Your flowers yeah. The breakfast came scenic year and a lot of listeners. That i have you know some of you. Don't get along with your mother's some. You actually hate you mothers some. You have a forgiving. Your mother for something to happen long time ago. And i'm not pretending to be in your shoes. I'm not pretending to be aware of the things that you've gone through your mom's some you've had mother's debt were questionable and i wanna see that you know mothers who had problems drug problems alcohol problems whatever. The case may be abusive problems. You now and i want you to realize their mothers are humans you know they have problems just like everyone else did not superwomen. They're not perfect. And you know. I don't think any woman would say you know. I'm glad my child had struggle. You know. i don't think any woman would save it. Just sometimes you know. I'm glad i abuse my child. You know now you have some women that are obviously need mental assistance but A lot of times women go through things just like everyone else and they don't have the help that they need. Maybe there bi polar a neighbor were diagnosed so they take it on children and that kind of thing or they have some kind of mental sickness. They never received treatment for any taken out on the children or maybe struggling because the father left. You know i. It's a me out of reasons. Where a relationship between a mother and the child could be tarnished. So all i'm saying is before you say that you hate your mother and you wish that you were born to someone else. You can't forgive your mother for something that happened thirty years ago all saying is before you go as far as seeing you hate this woman i want you to put yourself in her shoes just for a second think about the sacrifices that he went through first of all. She carried you for nine months. He could've aboard a joyous. She carried you for nine months. That should count for something after you were born. She clothed you. She fed you. And i'm not saying that all of the perfect there are no manuals or instructions on how to be a good mother. But what. I am seeing that. I believe that every mother should get the benefit of the doubt. Now don't get me around some have done some real bad things to the children you as far as even going as far as killing them and it's always did those women are you know he will say they're evil or they needed medical attention but you know they did bad things but most women are not wishing to be malice towards deer offspring. Even the women that abused each. You know you don't know what people are going through. You know the You know they need mental help struggling and they don't know how to cope with the stress the financial stress of being a single mom. So they take it out on my kids. And i'm not making excuses. I'm just saying that there's a lot of things can come into play. That could cause a mom to not be quote unquote the good mom. So before you hate this woman that cared you around for nine months. I want you to think about that. What did she sacrifice. What does she go through what he give up for. You think about that. What did she sacrifice for you like. I say she could've aboard you. Know she'd have to go through none of it but she chose to carry her tail. Then for you to say i hate my mom or some bullshit. I don't get along with. My mom is a slap in the face. Know me personally. When i when i hear about a woman that sanded. They don't get along with their mom. Who hate the mother Me and my mom you know any kind of negativity towards your mother. A big red flag. I stay away from now. If you don't respect your mother how you going to respect the husband respect your mother. Who will you respect. Truly you know you only get one mom. You only get one once. She's gone that's it. there's no do overs. there's no. Let's go back in time in no matter. How many flowers you buy. Or how nice will casket you get enter funeral. She won't see it is too late. it's too late and it always was unbelievable to me when someone says eter heating mother yet when their mother passes on. Get the best casket you know. They get a forty dozens of flowers hepburn and most expensive gown the casket. You know for women that she didn't like for women that you didn't love knowledge shit when she's dead and gone on. What kind of systems that make you only get one mother. Only one for something that happened in twenty five years ago thirty ten hill one. It's not worth jeopardizing the relationship between your mom and yourself in as thing call forgiveness. Forgiveness is the key. No one's perfect. Not even mom. There's a thing coal forgiveness and you shouldn't be carrying all this shit around you all time. It makes for a bad person. So that's all. I'm saying you know you know for you. People who are always going around and you know most of the time. I noticed dennis women. I'm no good some guys but most of the time people did a here who the hate imams of. Don't give them along with their moms or me and my mama so much alike. That's why we don't get along. You know you heard it shit. Most of them are women. So before you say this you hate this woman you hate being around there you know. You don't want to be near her. I want you to think about that. You only get one while she's gonna sit and well he's gone. You don't buy these roses and fancy gowns for the casket in the best casket in the best headstone zola. Shit don't mean nothing. She can't see it. you know. Honor this woman while she is living. You know you feel so much better. There was a movie. I can't think of the damn movie now hamid a lot of times. I try to think of movies to reference to. And i forget the name until i start recording enough though eight dead but There was this movie. I can't think of the name but this this girl treated her mom real bad Towards the end she was a mixed A girl. I can't remember the name hammo. They remade it. The best version that was nineteen fifty one Per perfect life. Some something like that but anyway this girl tree mom. He was embarrassed over mom because her mom was a black woman in the daughter could pass for white. You know she was really really light and So hughes embarrassed mom and then Her mom salim past and then you know she came to the funeral Crying i'm sorry mom and Mom please don't leave me. You know very sad. Very sad movie You know almost made me cry. But i see that you know a lot of times. People wait until it's too late to show their love for person. You know you it. This woman for ten fifteen twenty twenty-five thirty thirty five years you've hated this woman. And then were she passes on. Oh mom mom mom. You know it's too late it's too late. This is a woman that she'd be honored especially when she gets older. She should be honored every day of her life. Not just one day you know for those of you a blessed to still have your mother round. I'm not saying he's yet to call every day you do as good you do that. That's good every relationship is different but at least call her a lot. Maybe every other day maybe every two days sin flowers tour on the days was has mother's day birthday and valentine's day. I feel bound todd but just her out of nowhere taught tour taking lunch. Take a dinner. Make some coffee. Just talk to her. You know this is the woman dead made somewhat sacrificed for you. And if you come from a fluent family doesn't mean that she made any less sacrifice and you know she still cared you round for nine months she steal. Maybe fuse a woman wet dreams and decided to stay home to raise my family. You know just because you come a ritual. Poor family doesn't mean that the woman Is any less of a woman he's made if you'll mother period no matter if you come you're fluent or poor middle-class whatever if you're a mother you made sacrifices were you children in some kind of way you're giving up your dreams us. You're giving up something that you want to do for your children you you. Every woman has made a sacrifice dassault woman. Every woman has done that for kids in some kind of way some kind of way so this is a woman that should be honored more than just one or two days a year. This is a woman that deserves your love. While she's here she's gone. It's too late then. This is the woman that deserve your dedication to her an appreciation for her sacrifice and this is the woman who deserve forgiveness. You could give her forgiveness for whatever she did when you were kids. Maybe she did something you don't know what was behind that. And you know. A lot of people saying roosevelt. You don't know what you're talking about my mom. My mom was per woman. You don't no you don't know the circumstances behind while your mom was so terrible. Father ran out. Like i say maybe your mom was had a mental issue but he was never diagnosed be a myriad of things a wide is woman treated the kid she cared around for nine months and then treat them as society. We'll see as a quote unquote good. Mother would refuse to believe there. And like i say some women are bad. You know not perfect. But that's what our forgiveness come in. So that's all. I want to say on this mother's day and we all celebrate. We all remember for the mothers who passed on to the next life. But those of you who are still blessed to still have your mother's around show them love or more days than one or two days a year for those of you have your mother's around and you can't get along with them you hate them. You have to forgive them a reestablish a relationship with your mother before it's too late don't honor them when they're gone. Did you only get one. You don't get a do over. you don't get a replay wants to gone. They're gone as to worst thing that you can have on yourself. Regret regretting would if i would have just reached out to us. What if i just reached out to mom a mama whatever you call them. What if i was just saying. I'm sorry and i love you. What if i just done. I just have to do is call her. All had to do is go over the house only ten minutes away. Whatever the case may technology is so easy to get in touch with one. Don't fall under that that regret. Because you'll regret differ the rest of your life. What if what if so. That's all. I'm saying. That's all i wanted to talk about today. Mother's day even though it should be more honored than just one day. I want you all to remember that. This woman she be honored throughout the year. Not just one day. This woman is deserves our love. This woman deserves off guinness. This woman deserves dedication. He's truly a queen that we treat in. That manner is woman has given everything. She's given their her body of for us amongst other things. He is truly a woman that deserves your love so if you still have your mom around. Don't forget that the next time you see hater if you have a better relationship with her the next time you say you can't stand there. I want you to think about think about what this woman has done for you. Even if he hasn't done anything for you she still life that deserves something that means something so the next time. You hear mother's day to think about that. You only get one. Once he's gone that's it so make the best of it now. Don't allow the feeling of a grid to haunt you for the rest of your life. Make sure that you give the effort. I'm glad i got in touch with mom you know. We're not to breath. We talked and she says some things to me. I didn't realize that she was going through. Whatever the case may be. You don't know this is a woman who deserves at least that so. That's how i wanted to say today. I want to wish all of the mothers who have listen to me. Happy mother's day all of those who are pregnant. Happy mother's day. Enjoy it because we only get one. This has been another episode of x. y. Show hope you enjoyed it. Be sure to check me out on Network a lot of other in the podcast on that network does pretty good As pod read dot com so be sure to check him out. You can check me out on pretty much every venue that you wanna think about on iheartradio spotify amazon stitcher apple pretty much. All of them also on twitter. Tumbler search facebook instagram. As far as social media goes so be sure to say hi to me. Follow me and you can be up on new episodes at x. y. Show you can find everything a website which is. Www dot ex wife she'll dot com www dot craigs slash show dot com. Find everything. they're also have a story in my t shirt and surely one that you are two excellent wire. Take a picture shit to me. I would definitely posted. I am. I'm going to be changed. Some materials around in that stores will offer things of t shirt so we all know. Look out for that and I guess that's about it. I also have a picture on page. So you want to support x. y. Show i have I think i have two tiers three tiers Be sure to check that out of them. The third tier you can actually Talk to me and on a particular episode that you didn't agree with or you agree with you. Wanna talk to me about it. I'm one of those tiers consist of that. So if you're opportunity to see why think that we in the time is exclusively for you so be sure to check that out his will in I guess it so until next week. But i want you to remember that you cannot have love without x in what later you've been listening to the exit y show with your host. Roosevelt colbert the place. Where real relationship issues are talked about and addressed. Join us next time you can now put your clothes back on or not.

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Why Are There So Many Thai Restaurants In Chicago?

Curious City

14:45 min | 3 months ago

Why Are There So Many Thai Restaurants In Chicago?

"Curious city is supported by goose island now offering accustomed three one two can inspired by and brewed four chicago restaurant workers and giving back to the community through the chicago restaurant worker relief fund available at select locations throughout chicago. Hey they're curious city listeners. I'm reporter monica. Hang food can be a great way to dig into chicago's history but also our economics culture identity and changing demographics and for lots of these days food is more important than ever. A lot of people have been cooking more and trying new recipes. Were just eating while they're stuck at home since we get a lot of questions here. Curious city about food decided to try to answer one question every month this week. We're kicking off the series with a question about tie restaurants from father and son duo in hyde park after we answer the questions. We'll give you some tasty tips on how to order and eat thai food from one of the city's top thai food masters. That's coming up. Know if you're like me you've probably been eating a lot more takeout than usual this year and one of my favorites is tight that something had common with question. Asker evan robinson from hyde park evans. A high school sophomore. A foodie and a one time finalist on master chef junior he. I got in touch with us last winter before. The kobe lockdown started so met up with him and his dad chris. It's snail thai restaurant on fifty fifth street. How are you guys brian. Thanks for meeting. What a gorgeous day. It's a handsome sunny restaurant. Right across the street from where evan gets. His braces tightened. Whatever i come over here for Dental appointments we always see all different tire round right on the street and i was like. Wow that's kinda crazy. How there's three on this one block right here. And so that. Got evan and his dad chris thinking how can it be so many restaurants here but then i also thought thinking about other neighborhoods that i lived in chicago and there seems to be a thai restaurant and almost every neighborhood. He's right even with some recent closures. Some due to the pandemic. we've got a lot of thai restaurants at last count illinois. There were like two hundred and sixty and that's an estate with only about ten thousand type people. That's one thai restaurant for every thirty eight thai people about twice the national average. So chris evans wanted to know. How did we get so many thai restaurants here. Well there are a bunch of reasons for this. But i you need to know that in the seventies illinois became a really big destination for thai immigrants in fact the third biggest. That's a nation in the country. After la in new york gods people came to illinois as students but many others came as medical professionals to fill need hospitals. People like chung-pen ratna as a nose permanent decided to do nursing but she also knew how to cook. I learned from watching my mom been too cool for us. And i like to help her the kitchen. So people like rocinha. The missed their national food in the seventies started opening small homey restaurants for their fellow ties. I or pen melissa. Nineteen seventy nine at the time. I think i'm number would not go. Restaurant is the thai room in north center. One of the few pioneer restaurants still left today at first she says business was slow by the eighty s. Chicago had gone crazy for thai food. Customers that live from the funder and debris for two three hour to kit in rotten herself ended up opening three more restaurants. Chicago's hunger for it. Seemed insatiable at the debt. I seem like every few months. I lived on pop up every few months so to recap starting in the seventies chicago got this big influx of thai immigrants. A lot of open restaurants in chicagoans loved him. So that's how we got so many thai restaurants but then there's the question of why like why do so many ties decide to start restaurants. I put that question to a bunch of tight cooks restaurateurs diplomats and restaurant watchers and they came up with a few main reasons. I well many people told me tyzzer. Just natural cooks. That can cook anything and they love to eat. That's chef a ruin so. Yvette and this claim may not be scientific. But i heard it from government officials and scholars to plus. It's hard to argue with the ruins own story. He came here in the eighties to study political science. But within a few years the untrained grad student became a world famous thai chef. Aroon himself thinks it may have something to do with the fact that buddhist ties grow up bringing fine food offerings to shrines. Lot of go to temple and you know when they go to denver the bring good food and must be the special kind of food to offer food to the holy spirit of the buddha. Whatever you have to do the best of what you can do. That's how i learned know indirectly. You may say another reason. Well experts like rica. gulick of global entrepreneurship monitor and bangkok sake. Ties are super. Entrepreneurial like rotten aroon. They really liked to start their own businesses and the numbers back this up. Talent is very very positive towards entrepreneurs and towards entrepreneurship. We have a twenty percent of the population who start a business and we have roughly twenty percent of the population who run established businesses. And that's a lot higher than most countries surveyed. They even though rank the us scheffer rune agrees about the tie penchant for running their own businesses. But he puts it another way type. You would like to be hired by anyone. They're are not that good employees but it can be the good bus and remember that cluster of tie places on fifty fifth at our question asked. She noticed a room says that comes from another titrate. He says his countrymen aren't afraid to emulate. some might even say copy their successful competitors even if that means opening up right on the same block by beulah was selected fall kind of fashion when one is doing this and the other one to the other one before you know it. It's all in the market in the last reason. Well there's this tight government program that started about twenty years ago and it helps tie restaurants market themselves. The aim is to boost tourism by essentially getting people to fall in love with thai food and the program has helped put thai food on the map. All over the world folks at the thai consulate. Tell me the program used to offer funding assistance for things like start up loans in cooking lessons but today it's mostly about marketing. They do this by giving certain restaurants a sticker. They can put in their window with the words tie. Select restaurants can earn them by meeting certain standards of authenticity and using real tight ingredients here in chicago. You can find diamond shape sticker and a bunch of restaurant windows including jj thais street food auto. A tie an herb. When i tell all this to evan he's pretty surprised but it also makes sense. I said connor shows why we see the big groups on this one block right here. I guess it could see. Why the veterans just spreading all over the place and his dad thinks. It's pretty cool. I also think it's kind of interesting that there's just such agreement with the different restaurants. Yeah we can live with each other. It's okay we can coexist and everyone's fine. I guess that does explain all the different groupings in clustering that you see out there so i. It's it's fascinating. Make your tie eating experience different. I so of it said so now you know why. Chicago has so many thai restaurants when we come back a few tips for the best way to order and eat food right after. This curious city is supported by goose island now offering custom three. One two can inspired by and brewed four chicago restaurant workers and giving back to the community through the chicago restaurant worker relief fund available at select locations throughout chicago so yeah. We've got a lot of thai restaurants in the chicago area and a lot of us know the basics of what to order but i asked chef a ruined sympathize viva to lead me through some tips for making sure. We're getting a complete tie experience. You know when we get takeout or return to restaurants when they were open again. He took me through the meal in about six courses. Number one you have to try curry's any curry greencore in particular which is very public. And either you with vegetable only with trimmer with chicken or with fishbowl or whatever number one a green curry number one is curry okay green. Maybe come to my first game specific specific. You can serve green curry okay. Got it start with that green curry with vegetable or meat. Okay to you. Got to try any type of thai sala salads. Spicy lob with ground meat or some tom with strips of green papaya a ruin says they all usually feature meat and vegetables but the key is the fresh herbs women grass kaffir lime leaves see landreau charlotte thai chili peppers and min leaps. These are just a few with three. You gotta try at least one kind of tie su. He suggests the hot and sour clear soup called tom yum or tom com ads. Coconut milk. if you've got a cold. He says these early soups or just what. The doctor ordered. Evo- -freshing and bright not to mention very medicinal. It can kill your call. It's true a doctor even told me to recommend these tie irby's soups for colts. Better than that you consume. I tell you okay so much better and after the soup number four you have to try some time still frying cooking mostly put tie or you can basil and number five. I was saying you can try it. Some type fried thing like the fried fish cake called todman served with fresh vegetables and a dipping sauce. Then if you're feeling adventurous ruined suggests a special steam dish. A curry fish custard called homework. It's cooked with fish. Snapper and meets with the fishery ground could repairs mill almost like a souffle in banana leaves. That is the best of the best obtain. I'll take cooking that. You have not known. The public does not so now you do know when the mall desert what desert desert one desert that can go anywhere would be the mango and sticky rice. So that's what to order. But how should you eat it. I want all you listeners. To raise your hands if you've ever asked for chopsticks at a thai restaurant well here's what a ruin says about that. Not you know if you want to show that you really know thai food. Don't ask jobs. That's because thai culture is not a chopstick culture instead. They use a fork and spoon. A ruin explains here. You hold in your right hand in and then the way you look carefully you take the food with the better the floor you know twice to push into the spoon like this by side little side when the by size and you just put a mouse with a spoon if food is everywhere like this. That's the way you do it very proper way to try to wrap up the food that they always looked good on your plate. Make mesler because you know you always like to mitchell. This is as well. Okay thank you if you want to see. The forks spoons demonstration gore. Curious city facebook. Page where we've posted a nifty video of the whole thing and finally. I did this interview with chef. Warren last year on march tenth at the time. A mysterious corona virus was circulating in asia. But we weren't yet sure if it would hit the us. We talked about as i packed up my recording equipment than a rune got really serious and gave me one last piece of advice. He told me about this hundred year. Old buddhist prophecy that said twenty twenty was going to be a really bad year across the whole world and that i should be careful. I tried to let it spooked me but i did put my scarf over my faces. I took a cab back to the office. Week later governor pritzker pretty much shut down the state and we all know how the rest of twenty twenty wet so here. We are nearly a year after that interview. And i'm hoping that this bad period is ready to come to a net sparing as many chicago restaurants including the tie ones as possible. Curious city supported by the koenig valley foundation our audio producer steven jackson and joe dassault our digital producer. Is maggie. sit our editor. Is alexander solomon. I'm monica an insurrection attempt at the nation's capital. If you've been paying close attention it came as no surprise. These people have been girding for a civil war for years subscribed to motive from. Wbz chicago wherever you get your podcasts.

chicago evan evan robinson hyde park evans goose island illinois Aroon gulick of global entrepreneurs Chicago scheffer rune chris thai consulate ratna chris evans hyde park monica chung Yvette melissa
Editors Picks: September 14th 2020

The Economist: Editor's Picks

22:38 min | 8 months ago

Editors Picks: September 14th 2020

"It's Monday the fourteenth of September. Twenty twenty. I'm Hogan the economists step debriefings editor. Welcomed edged his picks where you can hit three highlights from the paper this week Rep. We have to cover stories this week. One on whether the officers finished. The curve calamity is prompting a long overdue phase of technological and social experimentation in the workplace. A cover story in the Middle East. Africa argues that capitalism must be the many not the few. Enforceable. Property Rights is still far too rare in poor countries. And finally Mexico's unsellable presidential jet the country's leader can't find a buyer for his play. The stories you're about to hear a just a sample of what's on offer in the economist this week with a subscription, you can read or listen to all of our Jackson. Feel best introductory offer go to economists dot com slash podcast often, and the link is in the show fessed up the fight over the future of WACK. Most. People associate the office with routine and conformity. But it is fast becoming a source of economic uncertainty and heated dispute. Around the World Workers Bossi's landlords and governments are trying to work out if the office is obsolete and are coming to radically different conclusions. Some eighty four percent of French authorities. Workers are back at their desks but less than forty percent of British ones are. Jack Dorsey ahead of twitter says the company's staff can work from home forever bought Reed Hastings founder of Netflix. Says, homeworking is appeal negative. As firms do their the thirty trillion dollar global commercial property market is stalked by fears of a deep slump, and while some work is dream of a Panglossian future without commutes and Pritam. OJ. Others wonder about the threat to promotions pay and job security. The disagreement reflects on certainty about how effective? Distancing will be and how long it will take before Covid nineteen vaccine is widely available. But. It is about more than that. The pandemic has revealed just how many offices were being run as relics of the twentieth century even as it triggered the mass adoption of technologies that can transform white collar work. As a result, the COVID calamity will prompt a long overdue phase of technological and social experimentation neither business as usual nor a fatal blow to the office. This Sierra holds promise but also brings threats not least two companies couches instead of resisting. Governments. Need to update antiquated employment laws and. Managing City Centers. Two hundred years ago steam power brought workers to factories where they could use new machines. As corporate giants emerged in the late nineteenth century staff when needed to administer them, they held planning meetings and secular memos, invoices and other paperwork to record what they had done. All this required workers to be close together and created the Pantheon of people commuting by Cairo train in order to meet in a central office. This system always had glaring shortcomings some of which have become worse over time. Most people hate the hassle and expense of commuting which eats up of a four hours a week for the average American worker. Some dislike the noise and formality of offices all suffer from discrimination within them. office-bound workers find it harder to look after their children. A growing issue as more families have two working parents. You might think that new technologies would have shaken up these unsatisfactory status quo after all the PDF trick document was born in Nineteen ninety-one the cost of bandwidth collapsed in the two thousands and zoom and slack to firms whose technology powers remote working on both nearly a decade old. Yet Inertia has allowed the office to escape serious disruption before covid nineteen struck for example, flexible office companies including the troubled we work had tiny global market share of under five percent. Most businesses were unwilling to switch wholesale to remote working technologies before that client state or to off sunk costs in the form of property assets and leases. covid nineteen has upended all this. Before the pandemic only three percent of Americans worked from home regularly now, a huge number have tried it. Even Xerox affirm synonymous with office printers spewing. Pages has many of its staff working from home. As more people adopt remote working technologies, that is a powerful network effect with each new customer making the service more useful together. Microsoft teams Zoom Google meet and Cisco Webex now have well over three hundred million uses Bureaucratic hurdles to remote work have been blasted out of the way. Civil Courts are operating remotely. Notaries have gone online and some banks have eliminated the need for new customers to enter a branch to confirm their identity and open account. How much of this change will stick when a vaccine arrives. The best available guide is from countries where the virus is under control. There the picture is All van Optional Office which people attend but less frequently in Germany, for example, seventy, four percent of office workers. Now go to their place of work, but only half of them there five days a week according to surveys by Morgan Stanley. The exact balance will depend on the industry and city in places with easy commutes more workers will go to the office mega-cities. We've long expensive journeys may see fewer. Companies will have to adapt to his pattern of sporadic attendance in which the office is a hub naught. A second home that is a risk that over time affirms social capital erodes creativity flags, hierarchies also fi and team spirit fades as Mr Hastings. Fears. VIANSA is more targeted staff interactions with groups gathering at specific times to refresh friendships and swap information new technologies that game if I online interactions to prompt spontaneity may eventually supersede the stilted dwelled of zoom as they retool their couches firms will need to rejig their property. Sober investors expect a reduction of at least ten percent in the stock of office space in big cities. With the typical corporate lease lost at least half a decade. This will take time to play out. For governments, the temptation is to turn the clock back to limit the economic damage from the collapse of city a cafes to the sixteen billion dollar budget shortfall that New York's subway system faces. Britain's government has tried to cajole workers back to the office, but rather than resist technological change, it is far better to anticipate its consequences. To priorities stand out. I evolved Corpus of employment. Law. Will need to be modernized already. The GIG economy has shown that it is out of date. Now new prickly questions about workers, rights, and responsibilities loom. Can firms monitor remote workers to assess their productivity? Who is liable if employees injure themselves at home? Any sense, the white collar workers getting perks will create simmering resentment in the rest of the workforce. The second priority is city centers. For Century they have been dominated by towers filled with swivel chairs and tons of yellowing paper. Now Complex. Urban planning rules will need a systematic overhaul to allow buildings and districts to be redeveloped for new UC's including flats and recreation. If you step back into the office this month sit down and Logan's Yo, computer? But don't get too comfortable. Her. NEXTSTEP land reform. Who Ends One. Twenty years ago Peruvian economists startling, observation. People in poor countries and not as poor as they seem. They have assets, lots of them, but they cannot prove they own them so they don't use them as collateral. At Nando de so to- estimated that the total value of informally owned land homes and other fixed assets was a whopping nine point three, trillion dollars in two thousand that's thirteen point five trillion dollars in today's money that was more than twenty times the total of foreign direct investment into developing countries over the preceding decade. If small farmers and shantytown dwellers had clear legal title to their property. They could borrow money more easily to buy better seeds or start a business. Invest in their land by irrigating it or acting shop without fear that someone might one day grab it. Property Rights would make the poor richer he argued. Since his book, the mystery of capital was published. It's ideas spread Indonesia, Thailand, and Vietnam of pursued vast titling projects, mapping, and registering millions of land parcels. India wants to use drones to map. It's villages. Ethiopia has registered millions of tracks. Rwanda has mapped entitled on Its Territory for seven dollars per parcel. Thanks to cheap photography. Studies suggest that titling has boosted agricultural productivity especially in Asia and Latin. America? The world. Bank wants seventy percent of people to have secure property rights by twenty thirty. That is unlikely to happen however. Despite all these efforts only thirty percent of the world's people have formal titles today. In rural sub Saharan Africa, a dismal ten percent do. Just twenty two percent of countries including only four percent of African ones have mapped and registered the private land in their capital cities. As covid nineteen destroys jobs the has been a global upsurge innovations and home demolitions says the UN. Some one billion people nearly one in five adults according to another survey fear that they will be a victory within five years often because they do not formerly own the land under their homes. Almost half of sub Saharan women fear that divorce or widowhood would mean losing their fields all the roof over their heads. As Mr Devoto warned establishing a system of secure property rights is hard. Simply giving property holders. Title Deed is not enough a legal document is worth little if its own cannot easily use it. Even in Rwanda Eighty, seven percent of sales involving parcels of rural land was still done informally five years after the drive to give everyone deeds ended. Other countries have seen similar failures all too often the institutions needed to enforce property rights smoothly impartially and transparently are missing. In many countries transactions a painfully slow. Registering property takes an average of one, hundred, eight days in. South. Asia and sixty four in Latin America as against just twenty four days in OECD countries. In India two thirds of civil court cases, land disputes, which take an average of twenty years to resolve. NEW SOFTWARE PLATFORMS THAT MAKE transactions and mediation. Help, but technology can do only so much. Other laws often undermined property rights in more than thirty countries daughters and widows do not have the same land inheritance rights, a sons overdose. In dozens more women, find it hard to an land because of customary law, which is unwritten but vigorously enforced in many villages. Mining and forestry laws may override landlords as in Mozambique. Ethiopia's registering of millions of land parcels in the two thousands was undermined by restrictions on their use as collateral. Restrictive planning laws make matters worse. In. South Asia one hundred and thirty million people live in slums, zoning rules and landholding by the agencies make it harder and costlier the people to buy formal property. And wetlands insecure land is less likely to be developed. Instead people are pushed into low rise slums far from the center. The resulting sproule means South Asian cities a growing twice as fast in area as population. In Anglophone Africa. Some planning laws draw on colonial era statutes designed for spacious. English, suburbs. In darus Salaam in Tanzania the minimum plot size performance dwelling is four hundred square meters. A slum home is perhaps one fortieth of that. One reason why reform is hard is that politicians often have a strong incentive to oppose it. In much of the developing world, the power to allocate. or to decide who does so is extremely lucrative. Politicians are often the worst landgrabbers in order to enrich themselves and to reward supporters. Stronger property rights for the little guy would make such looting Honda. Ruining pot is often allied with rural traditional leaders to thwart change. Globally two point five to three billion people live on some six billion hectares of communist land or three Russia's and Brazil. In Africa, more than fifty percent of people do. Since nineteen ninety, thirty, nine, of Africa's fifty four countries have passed landlords to give people on Communist land stronger ownership rights yet in some countries such as Malawian. Zambia, chiefs have blocked reforms. In others, toxic deals between and rural bigwigs deprive poor people have rights to their own land. This is an acute problem in South Africa's former homelands where many black people were consigned during apartheid and where one third of south. African. Still live with minimal property rights. well-meaning law sometimes have loopholes for elites to exploit. Rules that allow expropriation in the public interest are abuse to transfer land to cronies, for example. One Study of African and Asian laws found that only half required compensation in the case of state led expropriation. Some government simply ignored the law officials in Brazil. Colombia and Kenya have thrown slum dwellers out of their shucks or bulldozed rural people's ancestral land. INISIA-. Indonesia and the Philippines land rights activists have been locked up or intimidated. Property Rights cannot work unless the law applies to everyone. Lund is an emotive issue especially when memories of colonial expropriations still linger. In parts of southern Africa when a baby is born it some biblical cord is buried in the ground. The introduction of modern legally enforceable property rights will always be politically Ford. Nonetheless, reform must keep up the long hard slog of recording who owns what cementing individual property rights in law and building the institutions to uphold them. As Mr Dassault. Toe argued capitalism should be for the many not just the few. And finally, the Mexican President's plane isn't selling. It should have been easy the delivery in two thousand, sixteen of a luxurious jet for Mexico's then President Enrique Pena Nieto symbolized an out of touch government in a country with lots of poor people. In his campaign to succeed. Mr Pena in two thousand Eighteen Andress Manuel. Lopez. Obrador promised to stick a for sale sign in the window of the Boeing Seven, eight, seven, eight dreamliner. Board for one, hundred, twenty, seven, million dollars plus eighty one million dollars for customized fittings. As, president, he would travel by commercial airline like ordinary folk he won the election in a landslide. Now the PHAROANIC example of wasted opulence has become elegant and the pride of a nation in the words of the marketing brochure written attempt to bio with showy tastes than the Mexican president and one hundred, thirty, million dollars to spend. The flammable didn't work for twenty one months the Aeroplane Christened the Jose Maria Morello's EPA von after Mexican independence hero has sat unsold in hangar in. California. A symbol of past excess has become a sign of present ineptitude. The market for used wide-body private jets is miniscule. Selling, them often takes years. Sellers rarely recover fitting costs because new owners have own ideas about color schemes and comfy seats. Sloppy maintenance on the recession caused by the pandemic have lowered the planes value to seventy two million dollars. Insiders told Expense Yawn, a business news outlet. STYMIED IN JANUARY MR Lopez Obrador suggested raffling off the plane. The winner would get money to pay for a year or two of maintenance. A month later perhaps realizing it's impracticality he thought better of the idea. Now the prize is two billion pesos that's ninety three million dollars in cash, which is to be divided among one hundred winners. The total prize money is not vastly less than the plane's original value. Some two point, five, billion pesos in proceeds will go towards equipment for hospitals coping with covid nineteen, the National Lottery L., which is heavily indebted and lost money in seven of the past ten years is managing the Raffle the prize draw on September fifteenth. The maths do not add up the six million tickets still bearing the image of the plane are priced at five hundred Pacers. Each more than four times. The minimum daily wage if they sell out just five hundred, million pesos will be left for hospitals once prizemoney administrative costs and the ticket sellers Carter paid. To ensure that the scheme would raise enough money to keep the president's promise to hospitals. The recently renamed institute for the return of stolen goods to the people who or in-depth which auctions assets seized from criminals agreed to contribute two billion pesos to pay for the prizes. Normally it gives the proceeds to hospitals and the poor. By September eighth, less than two thirds of the tickets had been sold. The president has said that several rich businessmen voluntarily buy tickets and distribute them to workers in debt will stump up an extra five, hundred million pesos to donate one million tickets to hospitals caring for the poor. The. Way Things are going the government will struggle to break even on the raffle the ash show is exciting to watch but will get Mexico nowhere some Mexicans fear that is true of the president to. Thank you for listening to editor's picks. For more from economist subscribe at Economists Dot Com slash podcast of. I'm Emma Hogan, and in London this the economists.

Property Rights Africa Mexico president MR Lopez Obrador Emma Hogan Ethiopia Asia editor City Centers Twenty twenty India President Indonesia Brazil Middle East Jack Dorsey Jackson Netflix Cairo
Ep 25: Benedictions

16 Shots

24:09 min | 2 years ago

Ep 25: Benedictions

"The following podcast contains language and subject matter that some listeners may find disturbing. Listener discretion is advised. I'm standing at forty first and Plaski. This is where Liquan McDonald was shot. Sixteen times. I've probably watched the video that incident over one hundred times in the course of covering this trial on the night. Jason Van Dyke was found guilty of murdering Liquan McDonald, one of our reporters, Shannon Heffernan went to forty. I in Polaski. It was raining and the intersection was bathed in flashing blue lights. Again, four police cars surrounded a man at the bus stop after a few minutes. They drove away when she had an approached him. He seemed to bit rattled at first he was hesitant to be recorded, but then he agreed. I just got pulled over by four cops for no reason sitting here, and they told me, always, we've pulled you over because you're, you're trespassing walking on the sidewalk, four of them. They didn't look happy asked. Him. He had heard about the Van Dyke verdict. He had, and he was glad. I think what he did was excessive and he deserves everything gets. That's my opinion. So do you think having this guilty verdict means that the culture around policing has changed in Chicago that's not going to change nothing. Best not gonna change a damn thing. I mean. It'd be nice if it would, but it's not gonna change shit. I sat here and waited for the bus cop cars pull up and guess what. I was nervous. It was like, I'm afraid to. I'm afraid to be on this corner. Want to go home. I said, I'm try because I'm not trying to get shot. I just got pulled over by four cops for no reason sitting here. Yep, you're buses here and he laughed. I asked him if he'd be willing to share his name, you just tell me what you want. You know what my name, my name is Jesse Velasquez. And these cops out here, they need to grow up. From WBZ Chicago and the Chicago Tribune. This is sixteen shots. The police shooting of Liqun MacDonald. I'm Jen white. Over the past five days. Chicago has been reacting and responding to the murder conviction of officer, Jason Van Dyke tragedy because no one should have had to lose their life apply. Mcdonagh should not have had to make the broken system that everyone knew was broken for years for decades. Gentleman that got killed at a responsibility told bay, the police officer to just stop do what they say, what the knife down yet dot on the ground. The guy was still be alive, Justice, one over a tale of two cities today. And I think as we move forward, we must always remember the Justice. Righteousness is what really matters. Unfortunately, I think this will only further the shifts were police officers. Our bus and less aggressive we have. It's really something that's impacting the community said. I think that, I mean, you so many so many people that they were changing the story and it just happened over and over again. Knowing that that morning, I wake up and I put on that uniform and I'm going to work to protect and serve. I kissed my wife to find my kids defy hoping that I'm going to see on that same day and when your face face to face with this man, that it's either his life or your life. I put myself in his shoes, would I have done the same thing would I have shot this man? Because I felt that my life was in danger and I would never see my family again, my answer to that yet. Supposed to be a big top guy. A big tough guy would have got out of his car with his night, stick. Look, that's a skinny kid, and it's just waved to dick in a safe. And if you had the lack of the Ned Blackman the head, at least it would have been on what he was bird or among those responding to the verdict. Chicago mayor Rahm Emanuel. The jury. Did their job and their work, but our job is a city is not done. You know, over one hundred years, there've been seven individual attempts to making reforms of the police department in enhancing community police relationships. I believe that the course we're on today, led by superintendent Johnson and the leadership of the police department, and all of us. Our work is a head of us, although we've done a lot over the last two years, we still have a lot of work ahead of us. So the the jury did their job. They're in this episode. We go back to some of the people and places we visited throughout this podcast and ask how people are making sense of the verdict on the night. The verdict came down WBZ's Patrick Smith caught up again with two of Liqun. McDonald's close friends, Aaron Wilson, and Christian pool in the neighborhood on Chicago's west side where look on McDonald's, spent a lot of his life. We'll law, I will or we all will sue grew up at the eight hundred eight hundred block. You know what I'm saying? This is where it all started at where we jumped off that port Chet. In that corner. Right there is where you guys used to hang out and would hang out with with Liqun, right? Yup. I talked to Aaron and Christian on the front porch of a house that's now abandoned. It used to be the family home of one of their best friends. The porch is just a few doors down from the spot where Aaron Christian and the Quan would hang out, get high and roast each other. And it's just a few blocks from the front porch where Shannon and I, I interviewed them before Van Dyke trial started when they described the Kwan's unique walk his fun, loving personality, and his Bobby schmor- to dance. Since we talked Ahrends gone through a rough patch, he picked up a couple of battery charges and lost his job because of them. But Christians doing better. He got a job at McDonald's on the south side and he's living with his sister near there. What do you think about the verdict? Did you watch it? I know you were working. Did you watch it? Of course I went live on my Facebook. You know what I'm saying? I had my little phone, not watching it. I kind of put a smile on my face. 'cause like finally, like, you know what I'm saying? We gotta logistics. You can go to sleep. I ain't gotta stay up all night. You know what I'm saying? Thinking about neverthe- in all that now consensus. You know what I'm saying? Settled in all that I can give me some resting earlier. Now. Yes, since day one, you know what I'm saying? Since it happened in the whole trout 'em taking it to trial, it's been on my mind. I resent, you know what I'm saying? Like it's it's twenty eighteen. Now that happened in twenty fourteen October twenty Christian. You're at work. When you found out, what do you think about the verdict? I'm happy in a sense, but then like, you know. Did you have? Did you have like when they charged with the second degree murder, did you can react in some type of way? Did you they was going to do the first degree or would you satisfied with oil like once. They said like he was Nali charged with second degree. He was also charged with sixteen council of aggravated battery, like right for that should count to. So all that shit going add up. You know what I mean? Like he now the Van Dyke he feel like what we go through, like what these people put us through, like the police, what they, you know, they make our life heart the people, you know, whether they knew the quantum not. Were they paying close attention to this, the people I know? Yeah, most definitely like all all on Facebook, all my friends, they they making status is like, you know, about the verdict in the trial and all that. So I know they care about it. Oh, I got my job like they was all I Christian. You're not gonna watch you not gonna watch it. I mean, like people were, they were watching that didn't even knew him, but I feel like it's more been him should have paid for like this, like the people who dyke had to go to tail history like his bosses and shit. Like why did he do that? Like I feel I more than him Shapiro for that shit. So there is actually next month there's going to be a trial for three other officers, then you guys aren't new. This three other officers who were charged with with trying to cover up the shootings. You guys know that mall. So the officers to has something to do with it to cover up for some shit that they homey. Did you know what I mean? And I feel like they should pay for that shit too. That's just like, you know what I mean? Like if I was going to do a drill aero eight thousand car with me and the police also they would live both us up because they felt like he has some shit to do with that shit too. If you want. I'm saying, why are they going to book both? Everybody who have. Parsons shit who knew about that ship before we knew about that shit for they her pay for that shit on Brocha pay for that shit. So the defense Van Dyke attorney put on a bunch of witnesses who were supposed to basically say that liquid McDonald was like a bad kid. They describe the quantum as a monster. At one point they said he had huge bugged out is I wonder what you think about that. They don't know him like, well. Who who who take you back here. He wanted, you know what I'm saying? Like that. I mean, of course, we the air buddy. Ain't nobody. Perfect. So what what did they mean by right kid? Who gets that's why I'd be saying like, who gives somebody else that power to say like somebody was, but you don't know what people being grew up to how you going judge. How are you going to judge by someone? Look, come on now, right? You can't judge no book bottom cover. You gotta read that book. He babies. Seniors to Lille like to learn like people learn for nameless things like say, go, hey. Oh, hey. Somebody look over his problems a why he was going through again, that chance to like for like, just because everybody we all wasn't born. Like with the seal respond. I'm fucking mouth full hail. Now you ain't ain't no way to judge nobody. Barry. Where the the first time we talked on the porch, you said there's nothing going to change about these police. Does this verdict make you believe that may be something we'll get better? Am our general manager asked me the same thing like maybe this is a this is a step asong for stuff to change, and you know my response to her was. This is twenty eighteen two thousand eighteen years. I passed name shit done. Change. Aaron, do you think it'll change at all or this? Do you think this verdict in particular is a sign that things could get better? I mean, maybe in a way, you know what I'm saying? I think things don't count down. We're gonna try to make it better. You know what I'm saying about all this. That happened to him. So, yeah, in a way. What do you say? Police officers who upset that Van Dyke was convicted. They say because they know that he did was fucked up and not right. So own see how the hell they can be upset about that situation. And what I think about like all police that fill like all man, Van Dyke shouldn't got this for y'all ass. Get that shit too. If y'all feel like ain't got where he does her for y'all. Them crooked Fugger. That's on this force to. The feeling is entirely different in Garfield ridge in clearing a pair of neighborhoods near midway airport on Chicago, south west side, Jason Van Dyke family lives. There. Chicago has a rule for all its employees. They have to live within city limits. This is a place where many White City employees flocked decades ago when their own abor hoods turned African American and Latino garbage man firemen, police officers. Mark Shrek is a fifty four year old industrial mechanic. He told chip Mitchell about the neighborhood. We have a large Hispanic community, everything else. We got some black people polish community, regular white people. You know, my wife Italian just a little bit everybody around here. Oh, mostly mostly white. Nice community, very solid. We got Garfield ridge watchdogs and stuff. We stay real net and stuff and what what's watchdogs? Oh, it's it's a website, you know, for people living Garfield and clearing and stuff. And we communicate real quickly because we love this neighborhood and we don't wanna get torn up going to hell. We'd wanna turn it into one of the neighborhoods that are all tour around here. You know, you know, when that thing was going on, everybody's on watchdogs and stuff. You know that. Thing was vandyke trial. I met Shrek on his way out of a mass at Saint Jane Chantal church. It's a modernist building with zigzagging roof line where the Van Dyke SCO was Sunday two days after the verdict after sheriff's deputies took the officer away. Schreck said he had just served communion to van dykes wife and daughters, but said, I don't know what to say except give them a look and they know impre inform to shameful situation. It's horrible. You know, that trial should not have been in Cook County. That man did not receive a fair trial at all. When you talk with people in this part of town, you hear it over and over the officer was just doing his job and got a bad deal. And you hear something else about the verdict relief. I was worried by riots as worried about people burned down the city as what I was worried about. Coming into this neighborhood, the protests around McDonald's shooting in Van Dyke trial have been peaceful, but even the parish priest, then dykes priest, even he feels relief. His name's Ed Cronin. We spoke in the church rectory a police SUV. She was Aisling just outside the department at started posting officers there during the trial when a threatening call warned Cronin to quit speaking in Van Dyke defense, to be honest with you, I did feel relief. You'll did a verdict came down a guilty verdict guilty verdict into say, Jason, you know, I'm sorry, it had to be you this had to happen. You know what I mean? Jason knew it was gonna probably come down this way was it has had to happen this way because the city was almost up for grabs. I could feel the enema city in the some of some of the just downright hatred toward police toward him is family toward me. You know his, his pastor in the parish, none of this was going to be resolved. If he came down with a, you know, an innocent verdict. He had to be convicted to help save this whole city. This whole mess with the police, the city needed to be healed. Is it still just a met? Sure. Jason was still in the line of duty. It was excessive what he did, but nobody knows his perspective what he was standing in, you know, at the time what would be right for the city and just for Jason Van Dyke right now, in terms of his custody, his bail was revoked, and his sentencing. God's mercy is for everyone even the one who is supposedly the worst among us. But for that with that, there has to be also repentance. I know that you know, Jason knows that, you know and he'll do whatever needs to be done for the has been doing penance. You know for this, some people would argue that healing the community means Justice along prison term. We saw this happen on video for accountability for police officers. He needs to do serious time for it. We're not talking about a mass murderer. Okay. Who really should be put away lacked way for the rest of their life? We're not talking about that. This is a human being. This was a man. This is a father, a husband, okay, in a religious man at that. So if this Justice for a long prison term is hinged to the entire social. Issues with the police department of community to one man. It sounds more revengeful to me. I don't see how that's helpful. I don't see that is pre Christian. Let's use this to come together. Lets us all that angered the of the organizations that are trying to bring forth what they see as injustices done to them by the police. Let's use that for the good of everybody. That's a lot of good energy in there could be a lot of good energy to help save this city. About chip was in Van Dyke Spanish. Shannon Heffernan was at the new mount pilgrim missionary Baptist church on Chicago's west side church members. They're offered a prayer of gratitude for the guilty verdict. Ribbon Marshall hatches the pastor. Here you've heard from him throughout this podcast. He was in the courtroom during parts of the trial, but in a sermon he told his congregation. He purposefully chose not to be there when the verdict was read. Spirit not don't passes. I got a chance to sit right across from miss Van Dyke for most of the trial, it seemed like the closer we got to the verdict. The list figured I would really feel about rejoicing no matter what the outcome was just insane. I time for that kind of brazen felt pretty sober about it actually. So. Sold knowledge. She also told his congregation despite believing that Justice had been done. There was still a long way to go. The celebration needs to be over and we'd get back to work back in his office after the church service. He explained that the goal now was keeping the whole city accountable that wasn't Jason Van Dyke gun that shot that was gone a can't use it that way in our name and the police accountable to us is going to be a long rolled during closing arguments. Dan Herbert, the lawyer for Van Dyke compared the scene to a monster movie. And if we extend that metaphor, the Kwame McDonald would have been the monster. He also said, had it been a boy scout walking down that street, maybe at one or two bene- justified shooting, but it wasn't. It was racist. They hurt their client badly with that strategy. And you think it was a strategy was purposeful. Oh, absolutely. I thought it was purposeful. All of that was dog whistle and not Assata one, and it was winning interested in watching people with fancy law degrees and using these times at talking to this jury as if they thought they were being persuasive and these common people Saul right through the smokescreen churches, huge, big arches, giant stained glass. Windows were scenes from the bible and then some stained glass scenes, the churches at it while you know, churchyard is way interesting. We moved in one of these Catholic buildings and we, you know, kind of made something Matic art to reflect our own story with some of the artists already there in one of our one does, and it's been there for by eighteen years. And then we have one on the great migration. Now they're working on a window that he says will be the third part of that trilogy that is going to be a youth piece window in. It's it's gonna have representations of the for gross from. Mahamne and we also have several young people who victims of the violence in Chicago and being taken into back into the village by Christ figure. They're already raising money and have an illustration of what they hope to do and on that window. If he gets permission from the family, he wants to have the Quan McDonald. The church can literally sanctify people. It's so it's a way of proclaiming something holy, something that God uses in order to advance the causes of Justice as so it means that it may not have mattered to people who thought they went power, but the quantum mad at the God. And that's why in his name, this town has been turned rights Addo. Jason. Van Dyke was transferred this week to a county jail, three hours west of Chicago. He's got his own selves so he separated from other inmates. The plan is to hold him there until sentencing. That could be weeks or even months off. Now that the trial trials ended will be doing far fewer episodes. But when Van Dyke is sentenced will be there and we'll bring you an update will also bring you news about another trial, three officers face charges of conspiring to cover up for Van Dyke after the shooting that trial make it something even deeper and more entrenched in the culture of Chicago policing. It won't be about one officer shooting. One young man. It'll be about a group of officers. Allegedly following a police department code of silence for updates, stay subscribed to sixteen shots. Sixteen shot a production of WBZ Chicago and the Chicago Tribune. It was produced by James Edwards with assistance from Joe Dassault and carry shepherd are reporting team includes Shannon, Heffernan, chip Mitchell, and Patrick Smith. Mike Lancia is digital editor with help from Pala Friedrich and Gabrielle, right? Our senior editor is rob Wildeboer. Brinton Benazech is our executive producer and Steve Edwards has WBZ's chief content officer special. Thanks to the Tribune editors, met O'Connor, Tracy van more Lehem. Angela Rosa l. tool and thanks to the WBZ newsroom who's reporting was instrumental to this series, additional thanks to Jenner and block for their generosity and legal help, and getting access to documents in the Van Dyke case had helped fill out our reporting and the reporting of other media in Chicago, the legal team includes Jeff Coleman. Gape Flynn tastes Patrick Cordova by Shali Dondi clip. Berlow Daniel Garcia Fallon McDowell, and Mary Pat Ston you can find out more about the case at WBZ dot org slash sixteen shots. Now more than ever. Facts matter. That's why the journalists at the Chicago Tribune are committed to quality journalism, relentlessly, pursuing the truth and providing you with the stories that impact your community as well as your daily life, get fact-based journalism and support the future of investigative reporting like sixteen shots by subscribing to the Chicago Tribune today, visit Chicago Tribune dot com slash sixteen shots for a special subscription offer. Just for listeners of this podcast.

Van Dyke Jason Van Dyke Chicago officer Liquan McDonald Shannon Heffernan Chicago Tribune Van Dyke Spanish Facebook McDonald WBZ Plaski Aaron WBZ Chicago Patrick Smith Polaski chip Mitchell WBZ Liqun MacDonald
8: Bloodlines

Motive

36:31 min | 7 months ago

8: Bloodlines

"This episode contains explicit language and a racial slur on bleeped. When he was growing up Derek Black remembers that every thanksgiving. His Dad would set a couple of extra chairs at the table from the time that I was fairly young. He was doing outreach to local skinhead leaders and people who he thought were were especially promising that he would have over for Thanksgiving dinner try to talk to them about their worldview. Derek is the son of Don Black. The former clansmen and founder of storm front the Internet's first major hate site. There in. Florida. Wasn't just for his parents and siblings. It was also home to sort of wider ideological family people who are in the movement like his Godfather. David Duke and many more. There'd be people who had led the populist party. There'd be people who were involved with running his website who are visiting town like this idea that his main network, where other people who are advocating nationalisms, who's a Turkey on the table and or talking about the news and Yeah Tola? Derek publicly renounced his family's racist beliefs in two thousand thirteen. But as a child of the movement, he understands it in a way few others do. Talking to him was enlightening, but it also puzzled me because as I've come to understand how the white supremacist movement has spent decades mainstreaming it's believes it's felt to me like there must be millions of Americans that are involved in it. But that's completely different from how Derek Black thinks about it but thirty thousand people seems about right to me. Just thirty thousand the people who are really involved in it and they know they're fault. They would answer that they are they marry other people who they meet it white nationalist and they have other white nationalist, babysit their kids and sometimes they try to move to towns where there are other white nationalist around subscribe to the white nationalist publications and they log onto nationals websites. Understanding the movement in this way as a small but tightly knit network has helped me as I've tried to tie up one loose end that is bothered me this whole year. What happened to Clark Martell? Clark Martell was the Neo Nazi who mysteriously appeared in nineteen eighties Chicago and revived an aging white supremacist movement with young recruits. His whereabouts. are a true mystery. As I've searched for him. I've learned much deeper lessons about the connections that hold this movement together and how it survives through generations. From WBZ Chicago I'm Odette UCF, and this is motive. bloodlines. Spoke with a lot of people who knew Clark as a Neo Nazi skinhead leader in Chicago some of them even knew him well. But none of them knew anything about his origins. Hello. I, was only able to learn about that from Clark's older brother. I still don't want people to know he was my brother. and. We grow up in billings Montana on the south side of billings Montana and which is the rough side of town. So we were. Close growing up High School Age we kind of diverged. Clark was the middle child of five. What was home life like for you all. Home Life I would say. The parents didn't get along really well, but they stayed together. The home was. Kinda Ramshackle House. No, bathroom. A lot of the time no running water. He's an outhouse. Basically the family just survive done the father's social security payments. Are Father had a problem with alcohol would often come home drunk and then. Our mother would. Spend hours are rainy him criticizing him and he would just sit there drawn cloud she tongue-lashed him. The parents troubles in the poverty affected Clark. Later in his life, he told people in Chicago that he had quote a bad childhood. Despite growing up in a neighborhood with many black and Latino Families Clark resented his mom for quote fighting for minorities, rights. In a family that was. Against the at Phnom War I think it was pro civil rights and I, know at one point he. Rejected that idea that the really did like the hippies really just like peace and love. Nonviolence. Crowd. Martin Luther King Gandhi, and was kind of rejection of his own family in that way that he failed his family wimps. In High School Clark became obsessed with Mine Kant and he later told a probation investigator in Chicago about how he had once hung a Nazi flag on his bedroom, Wall. He said his mother tore it down and screamed violently at him. Clark's brothers said, the family didn't really think anything was seriously wrong with Clark until a few weeks after Clark turned eighteen, he was arrested for attempting to firebomb his high school. He was found innocent by reason of mental disease or defect. After that he was. Put in a mental hospital for a while. And then it's soon as the. Convinced. The Mental Hospital people that he was fine. He headed straight to Chicago. Heart. Marto showed up and. He was a on our mailing list for quite some time. When Clark rejected his family and moved to Illinois he went to a man named Arthur Jones. At that time Jones was with a Neo Nazi organization called the National Socialist White People's Party. He's a Holocaust denier and ran unsuccessfully as a Republican candidate for Congress this year for time Marquel lived in my headquarters. In Troy Street. and. I couldn't. Abide him very long either. It was during his time with Jones that Clark started meeting people, he connected with white supremacists from other organizations. But there was drama where the jail a couple of times because he kept getting in fights with the with the locals there. So finally we said. My tell you gotta go. So he left organization. And next thing you know he started this Chicago area's skinhead. All. Right. Clark lived with so many people, Arthur Jones and then with some skinheads he recruited and even though many described him as quote crazy none of them really knew how serious mental illnesses were. His criminal case files made it clear. Clark was diagnosed with manic depression and obsessive compulsive disorder. He took drugs to treat schizophrenia depression and one for bipolar. Mania. During one prison stint, he reportedly tried to castrate himself. Clerk was also evaluated and found to suffer from alcoholism. His brother told me that their mom was diagnosed as mildly schizophrenic and their dad drank heavily. Even if Clarke had run away from his blood family. It seemed parts of them remained with him. Also among Clark's case files, there's a handwritten letter he sent to a judge when he was awaiting trial in nineteen ninety-three for defacing a synagogue. In it, he wrote that he had dueling personalities. He called one of them, the demon and the other the death's head. He said they both drive him to do destructive and violent things. He wrote both these counter personalities are killing me and this hate crimes businesses further proof of it. At the end of the letter, he writes. Please, help me get a simple lobotomy so I can live a halfway normal life. Clark lived such a marginal existence. He mostly survived on social security disability payments and he lacked stable housing. And yet, he yielded such enormous influence over the lives of young people he recruited. I've sometimes thought the reason is just that when it came to the movement, he was all in. He acted like he had nothing to lose not reputation not economic standing. Not Family. Few today Willingly Acknowledge Their Association with Clark, his ex-girlfriend's denied knowing him his own brother didn't want us to use his name because he's ashamed of what Clark became. But Adria Right Barsky has good memories of Clark was assigned enough for. Years Him staying with us and then going back to jail than stay with us they go. Her stepdad was a Neo Nazi skinhead who let Clark stay with them for seven or so years. Adria says Clark was her babysitter and friend when he first moved him with us in Chicago I was probably like five. Sex. You was always just like this big. Goofy guy who would sleep on the floor in his? Doc Martens with his bomber jacket draped over him like Dracula. Your doodle as I. Merged see like. That's more comfortable like this. As a kid Adria didn't know or understand everything Clark was up to he enlisted her help in putting together a white power zine and in her mind it was just glue stick and collage making time. T-, to me was always super caring attentive when I would you like Oh little doodles you know like finger pants whatever he'd be like that's so awesome. You know you're doing such a great job. Now. That's why I'd want to do more and I want to be more creative and. It's really Hard to come to grips with carrying about somebody was you find out later on was not the greatest person? Adria is still making sense of Clark's presence in her life and of the family of white supremacists that raised her. It was complicated. Because Adria is half Mexican they would tell people I was Italia. Adria recalls one time that Clark was with them and they had other people over to other Neo Nazi skinheads. I remember somebody had said something about me being Talian and then as A. Child you know my insurrections be like Oh you're wrong and so I said no, I'm Mexican I can't remember who it was. They just turn like looked at like my Stepdad Clark was like you have. effing. SPIC in house. And it was just instant. Where they just grabbed him and just dragged him out of the apartment. I definitely have a lot of psychological damage that I've been working through for years. They never directly said, oh. You're subhuman but looking in the mirror I'm like. I have brown hair and Brown eyes you know like. I'm not worth much to them. But blood is thicker than water. So. I just try to let it go. Over the years, he stayed with Adrian Family Clark's behaviour became more erratic. Eventually her mom said, Clark, couldn't come around anymore. Adria remembers feeling sad when he left. I. Think maybe he was just always searching for family. I definitely feel like with my family like he was a part of the family and I hope that he eventually got that. I, do I do I do hope happy i. hope he found what it was looking for. Clerks trail went cold in one, thousand, nine, hundred, Ninety, seven. His last recorded earnings are from that year and the last entry on his lengthy rap sheet was an arrest in July of that year for drinking on the public way. At something we were talking. And she had mentioned and this was when I was younger about him having a daughter who was around my age what was the last time that you heard from Clark? Was About Nineteen, ninety seven or so somewhere in there where He had done out of prison. He he said he was going to go to Texas to find his daughter and his wife or ex wife. And that's the last their. Last correspondence ever from Clark was a postcard. Astronaut. And it came from Texas. And he said. He was going to Texas to become an astronaut with that. Was it like never heard from them again? Oh. My mother believe he was murdered what I understand from a former associate of mine. Apparently, he couldn't keep his hand off some guy's wife and And he ended up getting killed. Texas. Next up. Texas. There's a lot going on right now around the world around the country, but also right around the corner in your community. So we're trying something new the team behind all things considered is teaming up with your local station for a new daily podcast called consider this we go beyond the headlines to keep you informed about what's happening in your community right alongside the most important national stories so you can make sense of the day. The best information I got about what happened to Clark came from his sister she declined to be recorded. But. Here's what she told me. In December two, thousand, three, six years after Clark disappeared she received a phone call. It was from a US S.. Postal Service inspector. He told her that he had been investigating a case that involved a man named Carl. I. The postal inspector told her that in his investigation he was told that I had boasted about committing to killings and one of the victims was named Clark. Martell. There is nobody there is no death certificate. But these were the outlines of a jigsaw puzzle. and. So I started searching for the pieces that fit. The first big break was when I realized I wasn't looking for Carl, I F. I. R. S.. T.. I was looking for Carl Edward I F. U. E. R. S. T.. On. A Tuesday afternoon in early November two, thousand three. I walked into a bank in. Cullman Alabama he was there to deposit a check. The bank teller assisting him completed the transaction. Then after he walked out. She turned to a wanted poster hanging on the bank wall and tore it down. It was a poster of the Brown haired thirty-seven-year-old man she had just served wanted for mail theft and bank fraud. Would followed was by every account, an epic chase as many as twenty squad cars from the City County and state as well as city police helicopter pursued I as he fled down highways in a gold colored van. I. Was also shooting at police as he drove. The pursuit ended when his car crashed in a ravine. Police found him with a bullet to his head a coroner determined it was self inflicted. So the man who was rumored to have killed, Clark Martell died in late two, thousand, three in a police chase. When he died I was wanted for his scheme that crossed into twenty states and spanned seven years it involved making and pocketing cash from counterfeit checks. Ultimately. I was believed to have passed over one and a half million dollars in fraudulent checks. Investigators searched fierce residents after he died. I had been living on a two and a half Acre ranch in a small town in the far northeast corner of Texas called Sims. The homeless crammed with stolen checks counterfeiting equipment a swastika mouse pad and pro Hitler Anti Black Anti. Jewish literature. There were also over one hundred, thousand rounds of ammunition. There's an article I found from a trade publication called electric utility week that covered fierce death and the search of his home. Near the bottom, the lead investigator said, they were also looking into reports that I quote killed a couple of people. That investigator from the postal inspection service is named Thomas. Pappas, he's the source of the story that Carl I murdered Clark Martell. Pappas suffered a stroke around a decade ago that left him with a Faiza it means he has trouble communicating. So I couldn't speak with him directly like I said I. Unfortunately think disposed of a lot when we moved here about a year ago but I did find one file with you know pictures and a little bit of his notes but I did speak to pappas his. Wife Janet who searched through her husband's files to see what else we might be able to learn about Karl Edward I, and he has here in his notes I spoke with his common law wife and advised her of his death according to her she has been with him for seven years. But knew him as Richard Hamilton they have a seven year old boy named get this Carl Edward. My name currently is Carl Edward Data Carl Edward doubt it is the son of Karl Edward I. There is a photo out there somewhere in the world and it's a group of KKK members standing there in their robes but then on the very sight of it, there's a little like six year old holding a paper plate with a hotdog ANA. That's me call south. It was only seven when his father died and even though his father was involved in his life taught him to read right ride a bike it turns out. He didn't really know him in fact, he didn't even know his real name yeah, we knew him as Richard Hamilton until he died, he was Richard Hamilton Computer Repairman to us. Carl's mother is a woman named Suzy Haiqa. She's originally from Illinois. And she's also the mother of Clark mortels daughter. There were several people in Illinois. Who told us? They'd heard Clark was killed by a man in Texas in a love. Triangle. And when I found, Carl doubt it. I could confirm that there was some sort of triangle here. Clark Martell Carl I who is rumored to have murdered. Clark. And Suzy AK- who'd had children by both men? Carl Dowsett says he was shocked to learn from reading. News reports that his dad had stolen so much money. Because the house film more like a shack. That's why I also wondered is there another family? Is there anything else that he put that towards because nothing there was nothing left for that and it's not that I would want that but I would want to know what did he do with that? After his dad died Carl doubt it and his mom moved into the home his dad had lived in. The one that federal investigators apparently searched to recover some of what I had stolen. I remember he had this collection of pickled vegetables. In a closet. But when going through it, they had little things of foil hidden between the vegetables filled with cash. Oh my gosh. So. You'd find. Sorry. So you found like like aluminum foil packets you're saying like in between Inigo, shores of pickled vegetables. Curl. Dowse. It said that after his dad died his life got harder he said his half brothers started bullying him. Any personally began to reject the hate filled beliefs of the movement. Carl left. Texas as a teen defin- out high school with a relative in Oklahoma. That relative was his half sister. The daughter of Clark Martell. I reached out to Clark's daughter. She did not agree to an interview and she asked that we leave her name out of it so. I told Carl. Dow Fit about the claim that Carl I had murdered Clark. Or put another way. That his dad may have murdered his half sisters dad. Wow I'm sorry I'm just kind. that. Astounds. ME. I. I can't deny it or say it's true. But I never thought about that I I never personally met her dad. I. Didn't even know who her dad was. Wow So, now I'm kind of scared about the land. My mom still lives at that house with with her husband. She she lives in a mobile home on the land now. But we'll how. I'm very curious now. I also reached out to his mom suzy several times for an interview. The first time she ignored me but sent a message to Christian Peach Cellini the former Neo Nazi skinhead who worked with us on this podcast. She challenged how well Christian really knew Clark. And she signed off her message with a number eighty eight. In the movement code for Heil Hitler. When I reached out to Susie a second time she denied knowing Clark Martell Carl I and the name Richard Hamilton, which was first Elliot's. When I sent her copies of legal documents as evidence of her connections she responded with a bizarre claim that the person on those documents must have been her mom. Her mom has a completely different name. Carl doubt. It told me about how his dad met his mom. It was when I was released from Federal Prison in Leavenworth Kansas in early nineteen ninety-six. The story that I was told over the years is that she was dating his friend who is also in prison with him and her boyfriend had asked Hey, will you give my friend a ride he's getting out so she gave my dad ride nine months later Carl doubt it was born. It turned out understanding fierce experience at Leavenworth prison. Helped me make more sense of this complicated story. Most. Importantly, it seems to be the place where he was radicalized. Investigators who were pursuing I before his death noted that while I was incarcerated, he befriended a member of a notorious white terrorist group called the order. I don't know if Suzy's boyfriend at Leavenworth or Susie herself were affiliated with the order. But I have wondered. Let me slow you down because there's a lot happening here and there is much to say. Kathleen Balu is a history professor at the University of Chicago and author of bring the war home, the white power movement and paramilitary. America there was a huge. To try to connect white women, especially quote unquote eligible movement white women with incarcerated members of the White Power Movement. This is very, very common in groups like the order where leaders promised things like multiple lives will be awaited you. When you come out of prison, there is the idea that polygamy and multiple wives would be permitted to kind of soldiers of the highest order and there was a series of pen pal campaigns and personal ads and things like that. That were specifically directed at connecting white women with people who are incarcerated. I've also wondered if Carl Firsts Crime Spree was inspired in some ways by what the order did. They rob armored cars in Yucaipa. California. That killed the radio talk show host Alan Berg people like Henry. Kissinger and Norman Lear were next on the orders list. What they did was carry out a string of moralize crimes meaning that they would hit things that they thought were immoral targets like porn stores or like they tried to bomb a game movie theater because they thought that that was immoral and then they also hit banks which they also thought were part of a government conspiracy they believed that the whole system was controlled by Jewish outsiders order highsted armored cars for nearly four million dollars. Their biggest hit was a of a brinks armored car in. It's a really significant story for the White Power Movement because what they did was travel around the country distributing that money to other white power groups. This is not just about let's take the money and have a big party. You know this is about we need to mobilize resources for the race for, and there are several copycat groups that keep doing this after the main kind of prosecutions of the order in the late eighties. When I look at what Karl I was doing after he left prison I, wonder if he was maybe one of those copycats. The postal inspector who led the first case did share publicly that quote? It is possible that fierce maybe using some of the proceeds from his crimes to help fund white supremacist groups. Investigators also believed I may have been harbored by Christian identity churches as he was on his crime spree. Those are group's in the movement that ascribed to a racist and antisemitic theology. Your ties to Christian identity groups may have been strengthened by the family joined in Sims Texas. Suzy's twin sister had had a child with a man named James. Wikstroem Wikstroem is a prominent. In the White Supremacist Movement, he was a leader in the posse comitatus and the Christian. Identity Church. There's one more interesting parallel between how Carl fierce operated and the activities of the order. After, he left prison, I was using an alias Richard Hamilton. Investigators found Social Security Card for Richard Hamilton in I, Van when he died. Okay. So yes. This is the correct. Richard Hamilton. Richard Hamilton has lived mostly in the Pacific northwest it turned out he did recall having problems when he moved from Oregon to Washington and wanted a new drivers license and they said that there was. A suspension or something on it out of Texas I said well. I've never been to Texas so I don't know why there would be any anything went on with that. So so I guess I guess what I'm wondering is like I mean he had like all your identifying information. It seems do you have any idea how it might have gotten to him? I don't. Count. I don't it was absolutely news to me at the time and it wasn't really clear on Helmich of my information that they actually had. Okay. So let me back up to the stolen identity thing you Chicago Professor Kathleen Blue in paramilitary culture more broadly but especially in the white power movement, there's a ton of information about identity theft in the eighties. The order was very, very interested in how to get false identification. They would do things like go to cemeteries in the Pacific northwest because those activists were based in Washington Oregon Northern Idaho and they would look for infants who had died in childhood and then use those names and birthdays to then falsify Eddie that they could use. That's not what happened to Richard. Hamilton. But the fact that he was in the Pacific northwest where the movement was harvesting identities is striking. I started down this rabbit hole because I was looking for Clark Martell. But I haven't found him. I can't say for sure that Clark was murdered by Carl I I can't even say for sure that Clark is dead. The thing I never expected was that along this journey I would trip on a whole scheme that reveals how interwoven the movement really is and how sex blood and money help it to survive. I told, Christian. Peach leany what I found So. That's our. That's where we are. This is some deep shit. Christian has been trying to find Clark for more than twenty. Years. He wants to know what happened to the man that recruited him and changed his life. He never got this far. And he never imagined. It would lead to big names in the movement including people from the order I used to write to all of you guys in prison richards. Guitar Gear Yarbrough David Lane This is some really very deeply rooted white supremacist royalty stuff this weird. I was not aware of. The movement is strong growing stronger and getting bigger but Kathleen blue says, that's because we as a society have never recognized it for what it is. Tight. Knit Cohesive And violent. That same social movement we have never confronted it as a society. There has never been a cohesive court prosecution that really drained this movement of its resources and power. There has never been a moment of journalistic understanding where people said. Oh. This is a huge problem we have to mobilize to stop it. It's taken decades to address even incrementally the ways that this movement. Recruits people, and then carries out acts of violence, and that's been true in every sphere of response but we have not done is systematically as culture. Reckon with the fact that there is a very small but very violent white power movement that is today still wreaking havoc on our electoral systems and attempting mass violence I. Think it's in everyone's interest to take this story seriously. I've spent a year talking to Nazis reading some of the most vile literature anyone's written. At times the darkness has felt overwhelming. But it is also helped me to learn. That hate starts small. A few months after the end of the civil war it was just six confederate veterans who formed a secret society called the Ku Klux. Klan. In. One thousand nine, hundred, Eighty s Chicago only ten or so young people joined a Neo Nazi skinhead crew. Out of often division never even numbered one hundred people. These groups grow bigger and spread their ideas when we're not vigilant when we don't recognize their violence for what it is, we ignore or downplay or even platform them as some sort of entertainment. Understanding how this hate movement starts organizers and grows an important step in recognizing and resisting it. It may take generations to undo its harm. But it can be done. because. There are so many more people who stand against hate then for it. Motive is a production of WBZ Chicago I'm at Yussef The producer is Colin McNulty our executive producer is Kevin Dawson story consultant. Christian Pizza leany. Our intern is Hannah boomer shine Joe Dassault makes the show original music, Stephen Jackson, and Jesse Dukes along with Andrew, meriwether and Sam Clap. We couldn't have made this show without the Keane input of Kate Kayhan. Alexander Solomon Shannon Heffernan Natalie More Rob Wildeboer Jesse Dukes, Stephen, Jackson Candice Michelle Khan, and Patrick Smith. Thanks also to Betsy Burger Victor Lim Cindy Abbott Steve Mandel. Brendan Ban Zach and Steve Edwards. and. Special. Thanks to listeners whose financial support of WBZ made this podcast. Possible.

Adrian Family Clark Clark Martell Clark Martell Carl Chicago Texas White Supremacist Movement investigator Richard Hamilton Clark White Power Movement Adria High School Clark Clark mortels Carl I Carl Edward I F. U. E. R. S. T Don Black David Duke Florida Arthur Jones
The Importance of Details in Customer Relationships and ABM with Sendoso's Dan Frohnen

Marketing Today with Alan Hart

25:14 min | 2 months ago

The Importance of Details in Customer Relationships and ABM with Sendoso's Dan Frohnen

"Do you know the value of a click. Maybe how about a view or an impression from an influencer or your own social media content. I'm not so sure you should really check out my friends at eisenberg. They've got this. Social index and social index gives. You earned media value of all your kpi's across all the main social platforms including tiktok and these values are updated every day. You don't want to be stuck in twenty twenty do you. Over one thousand companies have used the social indexed understand the roi of their campaigns. And if you work with a social agency you should really ask them to incorporate earned media values and tear reports get your earned media value for social content visit earned media values dot com again. That's earned media dot com for all of us. It's about predicting where the consumer is going in. Getting of it right. One of the things we want to do is create odds. That don't suck then bracing chains. Chris great possibility malan heart and this is marketing today. Today on the show of got dan fronin. He's the chief marketing officer at sin. Dozo sin dosu is a leading. Sending platform helps companies. Stand out by giving them new ways to engage with their customers through the buyer's journey and on the show today we talk about dan's journey from music industry plana band in his early days to music publishing and ultimately to the tech world where he is now leading us in doses marketing efforts. We also talk about what the connected environment looks like. How do you deliver a better experience. today for your customers your employees etc also the current state of abm account based marketing. And much more. I hope you enjoy this conversation with dan. fernan dan welcome to the show. Thanks so much. I'm super excited to be here to before we start talking about business. I have to ask you about your career transition. You are in the music industry and now you're in the tech industry. How did that happen. It's an interesting journey for sure. I i grew up playing in bands. I was the guy that was in the garage. Plane music way too loud and making my parents man and you know that translated into a passion for going in studying music in college and then getting into the music publishing industry. And and i did that for about ten years. As i was in that industry i developed an affinity towards marketing and a lot of what was happening in marketing. At the time was going you know technology forward through marketing automation through intent data through email. Marketing social you. Name it right so i started doing a lot of business with a lotta different startup tech vendors. I just realized like man. Like this is what i really wanna be doing. And i got a passion that and took my marketing passion and my technology passion jumped into tech. And it's been amazing journey. Ever since what is sin dosa tell tell listeners. What it is what you guys do at the crux of what we do. Is we help. Companies to put physical touch points in an otherwise very digital world and we do that via are sending platform which allows companies to do direct mail. Gifting cameos virtual experiences at scale in the technology that they're already using or on our platform so you're enabling marketing. You're also the chief. Marketer of the company is a lot of marketing overlap there. What's your role like as cmo of sendo. So yeah. it's a ton of fun because anytime you're you're heading up marketing for a company. That's selling to marketing. It's almost like a cheat code. 'cause you just know yourself so really my my role i define. It is as two things. It's the creator of demand brand and the supporter of closures. Right and on demand brand side. It's all about getting a sendo so to be as common in your language as any other piece of technology whether that's email phone. Crm and then making sure that we're seeing anywhere and everywhere that makes sense for our audiences and internally making sure that i am just wrapped around the sales in in customer success teams and making sure that they have anything and everything that they need to be successful to create more and more customers that are that are happy and healthy. I wanted to mention allies. A little bit too like the service that you guys are providing. 'cause you serve a lot of different it seems like you serve a lot of different potential stakeholders because you got like you just said the demand for brand so you got the marketing side of the equation. That might be interfacing. Listen dassault so in using your services and technology and then you got the closers. The sales folks. That are doing the same thing. You've also got you know out. Imagine like hr is a component to like with especially in this virtual environment with employees on boarding making sure people feel engaged with swag at a minimum but maybe more higher level engagement level things too. But you're essentially making like the age old like i. I wanna go send a book to somebody a more off the shelf integrated into my sales or marketing process or on boarding process. You're making that easy for me. Is that the best way to think about the service that you're providing one hundred percent right we. Just we allow that direct mail that gifting that that whole art of giving someone something as easy as creating the plane that you wanna run connecting and then hitting the click button and we take a lot of that heavy lifting out of make sense Last time we talked you talked about supercenters. I love that title Especially for like. I think it's your like you're you're most sophisticated your best y- best users if you will the platform but tell me. What is it supercenter in. How do you like. Engage that community of folks so the supercenters as you alluded to her our best centers. And they're the ones that are they're the ones that are leveraging us in the in the most creative ways the most unique ways and quite frankly the most ingrained ways within their companies his as we talked about there's a marketing use case for supporting sellers and sdr's in generating pipeline running account based marketing. But then there's also a sales use case for sales using the directly to surprise and delight in interact with their prospects in teams using it to maintain relationships with customers in. Hr right so it's really. The super centers are the ones that are on the bleeding edge of using the sendo so technology through integrations with all of their teams internally and really leading the charge on on how this is done in how it's done in the best ways and it's really just this amazing community of marketers in some sellers. Some cx professionals that just get together and Really trade trade secrets with each other and we just helped to facilitate the conversation. I can only imagine like this past year with the pandemic though work from home sales processes have gotten up ended in many industries that were already working in virtual environment not to mention the on boarding for new new employees is completely changed in a virtual environment for many many companies. Were having to deal with that in the past. How do you guys. How do you think about connecting folks together whether it's like pipeline prospects and sales people or employees. How do you think about this connection in an environment where we're all virtual that we live in right. Now it's a pretty complex Question really because if you think about the connection it's it's multi-faceted its connection through technology right so every company has a technology stack that they're leveraging but you know anyone who's been in in marketing technology or sales technology knows that just because you buy the technology does not mean that you're using it correctly that you're looking at a customer journey end to end so the connection part of it is about that and making sure you know your customer and prospect and where they are and what. The unique touch points are And then the other piece to. It is really the creative element of that connection. Which is how are you creatively. Getting down to the level of the customer the prospect and being his personal end and connected as possible whether that's a one to one approach which obviously that's super expensive to do and not for everyone and then one too few in one too many and we really the connection is all that put together into a process in a strategy any examples. Come to mind like how people are using sin dosage the platform to build those foster those better connections anything. Come to mind that you could share. Yes so i can give you a example. Fresh fresh off the press o One of our str's reached out through someone at cisco and she included a personalized cameo video. In this outreach and the person from cisco was so impressed with the outreach and the personalization that she actually went onto lincoln publicly and said hey instead of shaming an sdr or doing. Some bad outrage. I wanna showcase outreached. So that's just one example of finding out what her favorite celebrity is having the celebrity speak to. Why is this. str's trying to get a held him in the first place in breaking through that noise and really highly personal way that can actually scale through us any platform. You could do that more than once and you can do that with multiple people. It has really cool example because how many times have logged into facebook to see some mean intentions of copying and pasting. You know either a lincoln and outreach. Her email that they received from sdr. And you know i. I can only imagine if i was. Sdr like oh please. The may i never be that person that gets shamed on link is then then the hordes come out right late. Start liking commenting on how they're bad experience. You get put on blast nickname for yourself in a bad way exactly. That's a really cool example. Like how engagement should work in turning the conversation around to the positive side and a cameo from celebrity never hurts. I remember the first time. I just blown away. It's kinda crazy that they even do it right like i get it. We'll we're talking about sales in this respect. Str's in the bbc world seems like the last five or more years the buzzword for b. two b. marketers has been account based marketing. Abm when you're kinda the critical juncture in the abm process like keeping the conversation going progressing to the next step in a pipeline. You think about abm like what's the current state of abm these days. It's been fascinating to watch. I mean it's it's evolved quite a bit and thank when i got into. Abm in that strategy really was a marketing approach and that was fundamentally flawed because it was marketing trying to basically do segmentation and viewpoint of the market but not really knowing how to orchestrate that with the sales organization and the organization to have a holistic approach to the evolution now has really become like a a business strategy and it's your go to market strategy and it's really account based at this point and a lot of things have happened as a result of that i think one is that when you're able to operationalize throughout your entire company you kinda mythbusters the fact that. Abm is one to one. It's actually you can be one of few. It can be one too many and you start to see that the coordination when you just have that. That singular view and holistic view of the universe university. It actually makes the campaigns and the creativity the connection a lot easier to achieve. 'cause you just all know what you're trying to connect with first place. That makes a lotta sense. Like i really like your mythbusters concept. Because i hadn't really thought about the fact that you can aggregate too few or when the mini even within the abm Construct and your notion that like it moved from like something that we organized around to like how we go to market. This is the game now. If you're not doing it this way you might be at a disadvantage. Is there any curious if there's any examples of how like you've seen. Abm in practice work weller. Examples of how you move people through the pipe the themes that i continued to see work really well when you know where an account and the people in the account are in their journey so i think a big part of the account based approaches is knowing what their intent is in the market are they. Are they showing signals. That they are in like a research phase or are they looking at pricing are they. In a buying phase is so powerful because then it allows you to actually prioritize in a whole different way and and show them different intense signals from you. Like if you know that they're in market and you know that they're researching certain you don't have to beat around the bush and you don't have to do the same sort of like guessing game that they need to be educated in a certain way like you may know that the researching abm so you should go and talk to them about abm and you should be able to look at some data to see what kind of technology their company might be using and you can be relevant there and then you can use your rate of energy to go get the meeting. Whether that's you know creative outbound strategy. Whether that's building a custom landing page in and getting something sendo so the over to what you believe might be the buying committee like you. Can you can really tackle it that way. Knowing where they are in the journey. What are you looking ahead. We're twenty twenty one we we still aren't all vaccinated yet. I'm assuming your business is probably done really really well in the last year. Assuming that it's probably going to potentially continue. But like what trends do you see for twenty twenty one as you think about your business in where you fit into the the customers that you're working with the big trends that were seen as that. There's no i mean maybe there are some light at the end of the tunnel right. We we know that you know. Vaccinations are happening. But when do we actually get back to offices. When do we get back to physical events. When do we get back to business. Travel at scale. I think it's really anyone's guess know for us. it's all about. How do we help. Companies have that extra on outside of just as digital hyper pronounce world. That we're in. And that really comes back to that that connectivity piece that at business to human approach in in helping companies to connect with their audiences beyond just a transactional one in into more of a. How can i help you. How can this be a deeper relationship. How can we develop a business relationship. That stands the test of of covid. Really if you think about it so when we see things going is is a lot. More value is being placed on brands. That are taking that extra time. In in finding the more unique ways to engage their prospects in their customers versus. Just kinda sprain digital you said something earlier. In the conversation. I think is probably underscored. How you guys come to market to in. It's the notion of the creativity whether it's a gift or a the touch point that you choose to execute against when you make it easy to to fulfil on whatever it is you're trying to do than the creativity can take over to like figure out how to do that in the most impactful way Agree with that as well. One hundred percent coming off the holiday period. I get some some gifts sent in. I'm pretty sure one was sent through From one of the people have interacted with and it was great. It was a little candies gift. It came along actually with a a gift card to give to a charity and it was like this really nice thing is like yes. Celebrate the holidays. Here's something sweet. Enjoy but like your. Here's a way that you can give back to the community. And i know people have done that before but i hadn't hadn't really experienced it firsthand before so it was a a nice one to punch on the creativity now. We definitely eat. That stuff really does while. I think we. We've seen a huge uptick in charitable giving in a during these times for sure Which is great I even do the same mean if someone is trying to get a meeting on my calendar i just say send me a linked to the to the charity that i can donate to versus giving me the gift because i'd rather i'd rather help someone right. Yeah we'll in in some ways. Like i mean there's a lot of regulations around gifting it especially the government as one example rate in. This gives the opportunity that you can help. Help others still achieved the goal and And get over that that barrier that might be there or not so well. I want to switch gears a little bit. We love to get to know the person behind the microphone. We already know you played in a band. I won't make you seeing although i'm thinking about it or play an instrument. Maybe you're not the lead singer i don't know but One of my favorite questions that ask is is there an experience of your past the defines or makes up who you are today and that's a that's a tough one so I moved around as a kid. So we're talking a different elementary school from second through fifth and then a two middle schools in two high schools so quite a bit of like getting pulled out of a class having the remake friends that all that fun stuff and actually that fundamentally divided me as originally it made me shy but as an adult when you kind of figure out who you are and what your places in this world actually made like pretty agile rynd able to pretty much. Say hi to anyone. Get the conversation going and get the job done. So that's probably that's probably my defining one for sure. You don't have to share if you don't want to buzz Military family or relgious divorced parents in my mom Just like to watch. But i can relate from what i've heard from my military. Yeah i've heard something similar in it was a. I can't remember if it was a military family or foreign service type family but there was planned moves like every couple of years so it can be hard on social life as especially the middle school in. That's too tough time periods. I think to shift What advice would you give your younger self. If you're starting all over again you know. The biggest advice that i would younger self would be to get out in network in do thought leadership a lot earlier than i did. I remember a lot of mentors would would say that. That was like how you crack. The code is out network and just write about your experiences and talked as many people as possible and it really is like the second. I started doing that and putting it out there. It's yeah it's just one of those things where the one activity breeds another activity to another activity in it. Just kinda creates its own flywheel on the next thing you know. You're on a podcast. You know what's been the. This is kind of a silly question but like asking Bill my shopping list. What's been the most impactful. Purchase that you've made of one hundred dollars or less in the last six to twelve months so this was not purchase. It was in. It was a fix. So i have two young boys and they both have bikes and i never made the time to go bike. Ride with them and covid made it so that i pulled out the bike and took it down to the bike shop and got it fixed for one hundred bucks. Yeah no that's a good one We actually funny enough like did something very similar. The start of the pandemic. It's like you don't have anything to do like you can't go places in my wife and i. We have a thirteen year old daughter and she had a great working bike but ours. We needed the dust off and kind of get tuned up and we did the same thing and it's really good money spent yet hopefully continue to do it even when you don't have to anymore right. Yeah exactly two last questions for you. You're stepping back from the day job that you have are there brands or companies or causes that you follow or you think other people should take notice of. I think a couple things in there really more local causes like especially if you have kids in school like we follow the boosters pretty closely here in like right now we're participating in making Kits for homeless people. There is a rise of homelessness right now. And just getting your kids in walden creating these kids and letting them know that there's people that aren't as fortunate as you and being able to do that and then the second thing that that's become kinda near and dear to my heart recently is is donating our local food bank because again it goes to the kind of the crux of the fact that there's a lot of poverty it's really below the surface right now with a lot of the service industries have been coming in and out So those are probably the two things that i'm pretty passionate are right now. I love those ideas. We've gotten involved in like to your point about the schools. They the local schools here have food pantries for that exact thing. If you food insecurity with kids. I should have known that it was a big But it's it's taken the pandemic to really bring a spotlight to it. Will last question for you what. What's the largest opportunity or threat. You think marketers are facing today. That's a. that's a pretty big question. I the biggest opportunity that marketers have right now is that there's never been a time in history that at least i know of where buyers have so much information at their fingertips that they just they go out and do like sixty seventy eighty percent of the research before they even come to you for a conversation or purchase decision so the biggest opportunity right now for marketers is to really double down on your knowledge of the entire customer life cycle and some product growth fundamentals around that. Because i think you know in this kind of dovetails into the threat. And i think it's a threat for marketers sellers and kind of csm's in a way. Is that as those kind of walls are coming down. It's anyone's guess who's going to be the one who who's gonna be the needed to service customers. I'm biased. i think it's marketing because you go out and create the demand in brand but as the walls down in the process changes. That's a big threat for everyone is that you have to be nimble learn new methodologies in ways of doing things so much for coming on the show i really appreciate it. Yeah no this was a blast. Thanks for having me. Hi. it's alan again. Marketing today was created and produced by me with support from my team and podcast editor sound engineers and writers at share your genius find them at share your genius dot com. If you're new to marketing today please feel free to write us a review and i tunes or your favorite listening platform. Don't forget to subscribe on marketing today. Podcast dot com and tell your friends and colleagues about the show. I love to hear from listeners. You can contact me on marketing today. Podcast dot com there. You'll also find complete show notes linked to what was discussed in the episode today and you can search our archives. I'm alan heart and this is marketing today.

sendo dan fronin fernan dan dan malan eisenberg cisco Chris weller rynd lincoln lincoln bbc facebook bush Travel
From blogger to freelance science writer with Maya Gosztyla | GBP010

GradBlogger

28:43 min | 2 years ago

From blogger to freelance science writer with Maya Gosztyla | GBP010

"Welcome to episode number, Ken LeGras blogger podcast or hoping academe exchange the world throw online business. I'm your host, Dr Chris cloney. Absolutely have an interview with a very special person, Maya go, still, she's alumni, or with their undergrad is state university. She's incoming student at the university of California San Diego Maya thank for coming on the show today. Cam happiness, talk with him. So today, we're going through my journey from a blogger to a freelance signs writer. So I, I really liked this path for academic kind of dip their toes in the water for side hustling. Entrepreneurship actually recommended to a couple people over the years. I don't know if anyone's taking me up on the offer, but basically said, don't know how to get started in that they wanna start throwing business, but don't know where to start something like, writing in the go check up work and see if there's some job posting apply for I had done that myself. Folks, not actually great of a writer turns up, but Maya has done that in is gonna share that journey today. So she started her science blog three years ago, which is at a l z science dot WordPress dot com, and it's all about the science of Alzheimer's disease, brain, health ear ago. We talking three meals you mentioned that a year ago. She used that sort of portfolio to launcher side, hustles freelance, science writer. That's kind of the journey will talking about. She asked knows that sort of good topic, or the listeners of the grab lager gas, and I think I responded with in attic. Yes on when he said that. Because I think from this podcast interview we can really get get you guys result. So we have a blog today, this will show you how you get maybe expanded into something more interest in freelancing. This is a really good way to get started, as I mentioned. So going back to the start Maya committee, shed some light on why you decide to start a science blog in the first place. Yeah. So I have like. Evolved, very gradually. And so I started out I was in it's called the junior committee of the Alzheimer's Association. A lot of cities, have these basically just bunch of, like, you know, twenty thirty year old's, who get together once a month and they helped plan events for these Nate, especially targeted like young professionals to get them to come since that, you know, that's kind of demographic, where people don't often care about geriatric diseases it. So we kinda focus on getting young people involved and my role on that committee was basically V, science officer official name with basically means none of the other people on that committee, where scientists, and so my job the undergrad wasn't really a scientist, for say, but might I knew how to read cited papers kind of translate them into league normals each. And so what I do is doing every meeting whenever there was a meeting. I would look at whatever headed published related to Alzheimer's disease in the past month that I just give a little synopsis on what that meant, and, like, what's. -nificant had, whether this might chains, you know, your lifestyle or things like that. And people on the committee, really liked that the town very useful. They said the you know, it wasn't the kind of nation. They could really get anywhere else. It's hard to find. And so I ended up, basically thinking, oh, maybe I'll just, you know, all right. These synopses also put them in our Email newsletter. So the people who didn't come to the beating can also get them and then someone else said, oh, maybe you should make like a permanent archive on website of these synopses still limited that and then eventually, it just kind of I realize, like, oh, this is actually a blog that other people are reading who aren't on the committee. And so I kinda jumped into it by that point, I made like social media to go into it, and I started actually promoting hosted inviting guests people, guests opposed on site and it just kind of grew from there. It wasn't really something I set out to do, but it ended up being a super awesome heart of undergrad career in something that I still enjoy doing hoped to keep doing throughout grad school, as well. It's a really cool story. In we turn off the video. So we can't see each other a have the kind of this giant probably stupid looking smile face. 'cause that's that's such a great story. And it's funny because it's, it's almost really different than what I did or a safety science for independent research company. But I did the same thing in terms of the, the media, paper abuse under view them in and try to ice. Look at them in science language. But then I'd take like five of them stacking together. Then take that in try to translate into what it meant or Mike as for industry. So to the real world, real people. Speaking in your words, but scintillating to see the kind of came from two different places. Maybe but we came to one of the same solutions your every day. You're reading these papers and the rest of the world would probably like to know women in, you know, normal words. So that's kind of interesting. Dan was super useful for me as well, just because if forced me to keep up to date on things that were happening in the field, which isn't undergrad, you don't necessarily need to do that. You know, you're not as indepth research at. So I think it's actually really made me a lot more knowledgeable of a subject as well. Won't will Alsop gushing over this as a approach in a moment. I promise, but if you Google, there's a trick where type site colon in your name, or the website, who will only term vaults on your website. So if you have forty or fifty paper, summarized under website, might KC thesis, I was actually just searching Google through only my website instead of using any paper based approach to sorting my papers at pull up my summaries of all the papers in this, like on a really handy trading with these kinda Anita process. So, so he did that for three years. And I guess the one that you learn over the first couple years of doing that type of blogging, this wanna see what the what the audience while I really wanna Kurds, the audience start blogging. I guess so. So what did you learn through that process? Yeah. I think that biggest thing that became clear to me is that even though you know, at the time I was, I started when I was sophomore college, I was certainly not an expert by any means on Alzheimer's neuroscience, in general. But I kind of realized that I am still an expert compared to like ninety five percent of the population. And so that was kind of important for me because I was very worried about putting this blog out there in having, you know, quote unquote real, scientists come in and say, oh, no, this is wrong. You're not gonna thority you have. No right to say this or whatever. And of course that like that never happens, like no one's gonna really come out and do that. You and even. So, you know, most the topics that I'm writing on even though I don't even have yet I still know way more about Alzheimer's and dementia than just your average person you're going to beat on the street. And so even though I would never at this point in my career write a blog. That's intended for like, other scientists necessarily. I would I think I'm definitely qualified to read a blog. That's intended for non scientists, and I think that's kind of a hill ahead to get over with your lives in that. You know, you don't have to have your PHD yet to, to be able to be assigned communicated. In fact, it probably even becomes harder as you start after your because you kind of forgotten a little bit house, it, how to talk to people who are. In your fields. So that was a big thing that I learned and probably the thing is just how fun writing is I actually wanted to be a science fiction writer for most of my childhood. And so I've kind of dislike wished writing away, they went to my stem career, but this kind of reignited, how much I love writing and just how cool it is to get to take these high level topics, actually your how to make them, not just understandable. But actually interesting so that people want to read about it. So that was really cool. It kind of dislike made me remember how fun it is in how much how cool, it is another people actually get something useful out of your writing. So that's been really awesome as well. Really cool. You could've said to tune Ford or things you don't need to be an expert to do this in actually talking the Email with the lead. You saw did not do NAS tres or HD, but she wants to do science writing. She's really. I mean, the, the communication error rate exactly on that topic. He's nervous 'cause he's not an expert and, but she's her feel the she's talking to people vote isn't even a really not necessary. I tried to play in a bit was that imposter syndrome is gonna be there. I have today for my entire business. I thought somebody's gonna call me an idiot in leading Bill was gonna come strike near the air, but never actually happened. But if that was going to be there, have you get your masters years, going to be upset if you do get your, you're going to be upset that your neighbors of extra burger next adventure, Bert. And if you do get that bigger, there's going to be the next thing you don't have enough. X y Z, the Bochum shifts to nextstep, whatever the next up is so it, don't you don't need to be an expert to get started. It's kind of more important to get start today. Can you take us through the journey a bit? You had this blog you're writing it. Now the way he described. It doesn't seem like that's such a huge jump to being a freelance science writer between you talk through some of that. Yeah. Actually kind of also happened accidentally as it turns out. And so I decided early on after I decided this was indeed a blog. I decided I didn't want to monetize, the blog itself, at least at this point in my career mainly because of my target audience is considered a vulnerable population to advertising. I mostly, I'm writing for middle aged elderly people, and just did not feel comfortable advertising things that one I probably didn't know about. I don't use products targets or elderly people in also just I just didn't feel comfortable. I just I just felt like kinda CD you know, they're going to this website to get information. And I think just for a population that's known to be acceptable to scams into marketing. Just I just wanted to avoid that I may end up changing in the future. If I find a product I really wants to promote. But for now I did you know, I'm not doing an appetizing things like that. So later after it had the blog for maybe like two years, someone just reach out to me on Twitter, and he said that he liked my blog and he had a company that was related to Alzheimer's. Disease. It was like offsetting con company or something are in fintech company technology. Yes. And he basically said Alec, you're writing. Would you be interested in writing for us about Alzheimer's, dementia in, because they have a log that accompanies well, which I'd never even occurred to me to accident? Other people will pay me, a right. Like I kind of they would I don't wanna make money slog never consider Phelan's writing as really an option. And so I ended up doing it and I really enjoyed writing for other people as well. And I ended up joining upward shortly after. That's like find people who I wanted to write for. So I've been doing that for about a year now. And it's been a really great way to keep the blog completely d monetize, and just kind of open can write whatever I want without worried about advertising. But yet, I can still use that as kind of launching only to get clients. In fact, many of my clients find me through my website and then later go on Oprah higher. Means that the other way around. So it's been a really great way to kind of indirectly earn money blogging. Really cool stories all, I mean, just hearing the decision not to Mont as website night. That's a, that's a personal assistant something you can do. I just from talking to you. I think the value that you might be able to deliver to that audience in the future through advertising bills products but through actually helping the might be a mess. But this time, you're, you're coming into a new Pete, you're starting apiece. Deprogrammed is probably going on. It only got to make those decisions personally for yourself in. I think that's really important. But the key is you've found maybe another without you. But because you're putting yourself out there, I think Ted up wave and you give any recommendations on somebody that is interested in doing this, you know, moving on to become a freelance, science writer dipping their toes in the water there. Yeah. I definitely would suggest being active on social media, as I said the first person to recharge me through Twitter. I am fairly active on that was also how I out in this podcast, too. Be interviewed for. I don't know why, but Twitter seems to be like the main social media that these people in stem fields use. But I feel like if you're just on anywhere even like leected just having a presence in actually interacting with people men, just kind of figuring out who is doing cool stuff in your field. That's a great way to buy clients. Build your network, so that the good one and the other thing would be, I think, when you're first starting out it can be really helpful to join something like up work, or one of these other freelancing websites that are out there just because it really helps you to get your foot in the door. It's harder to get clients. When you don't have much of a portfolio, yet, even though I had this blog, they sometimes still want to see the new have experienced doing paid work for other people instead of just writing, whatever you want. And so, I think it helps to go on those sites, even though they do take a cut of your pay that kind of scares people sometimes I think upward takes twenty percent of anything you make. So this is a pretty considerable chunk of your money for sure. But I think that when you're first starting out it can be really valuable. Just to get as many clients as you can. And then later once you've built up people if you wanna move away from upward just the complete independent, you could always sites. Do that, too. I agree in a I've never in a hiree upward, but I hired any many people probably on the order of say, ten over the last two or three years for different things. Everything from, you know, maybe a small logo designed to to my team members are started on over now. They were good side up with me. So I I it's a it's a great platform for finding people in connecting with people, so I can recommend enough. You know they do take the cut the twenty percent. But if you haven't gotten started twenty percent zero zero eighty percent zero the, the money gets also zero, so if his get started there, at least somewhere audience at needs people to, to do work. So I think that's a great starting place, another, I think scares bid upwards to go on there yet. Create profile kinda. Oath. Their bid baby cover letters to jobs. They have four or five just tips that you can think of or or being on up working and getting clients lot. Yes. So I think that biggest hit took him along to figure out is you should charge like Waymo than you think used to charge. Honestly, I think when I started I was charging early like ten dollars an hour or something like that, which after factor in the upward fee and you're also, you know, if you're paying self employment taxes, if you're in the United States, it's something like thirty percents of your income, also Sagan, so biscuit fails making below minimum wage, and my thinking behind that was okay. I don't have really any experience. You had any to have really low rates or else, nobody will hire me. But actually, it's not so much that, that's the case actually what happens is you end up getting the clients who have like a release drink budget. And those are often the client that you don't really wanna work with, like, they're, you know, the navy kind of organized, they don't always know exactly what they want. They may like take a long time to pay you to respond your messages. And so, like, even though I got plenty of job offers they weren't that great. And they just weren't worth my time for the amount of money. I was making. And so I ended up pretty dramatically increasing what I charge like nowadays, I'm more in the forty to fifty dollars an hour range out probably going higher winds. Have more experience and at onus is still plenty of job offers. You know, people reach out to I don't even really apply to jobs anymore. I just get emails from people who, who want to hire me and the clients, I get are just so much better quality. You know, they just treat you better often larger companies which is also nice for networking. If you're interested in working for a company eventually, it just has worked out a lot better. So that wants bitches charge more than you think don't undervalue yourself 'cause then, you know if if rates really low Bill that you're not worth higher. So first thing I wrote down when you said, when those your recommendation, he said he started with ten dollars, down wrong people with the question, are you gonna ask? Did you feel like you were getting? The wrong points. Yeah. Like honestly, most people who hire at those rates are often they're not companies. They're more just like individual people and not that his thing on with working for individuals on work, but they like just a lot of times. They just don't really know how this works like, you know, they made like people just like ask for extra work for free and often, you know, real clients will know what you're worth. And they're going to offer that as a minimum, so don't be afraid to charge. What you're worth. I agree. Any tips on profile setup or even just using the platform like searching for jobs that you want to. Yeah. I think as far the profile is definitely really important, definitely put a lot of time into that. The upward actually has to approve your profile on a lot of people. Get I think I got rejected on the first try they really want to see like very specific examples of your work. So if you have like a blog to link to you, that's a great thing to add or even just like a writing sample. It would like to see that kind of thing I think your photo is honestly really important like have a really nice. National photo affair because, you know, that is the first thing right next year name and on that same line having a good pag line is pretty important to which is kind of in just a few words to describe what you do. I'm having that be something that other people are searching for, like, almost kind of having like search engine optimization mindset putting in word people will be searching for and also words to be very unique to you. So things like genetics in my time line. -secutive is now but, you know, basically all the jobs, I get now artistically physically, for people who want someone to write about either, like dementia or genetics. Those are the two areas of experience, that I mainly have suspending your niece's really important there as well. And then in terms of applying for jobs, personally, I don't really worry about having a completely unique cover letter for every job and us, partly just because I get a decent number of invitations jobs that'll start happening. Once you give if you client, kind of snowball effect, so I would kind of go for quantity over quality honest. Indus case about most upward higher are higher on Oprah. They don't really spend that much time reading cover letters in my experience. Mostly just have very specific questions to ask you, and so I would just say, you know, as you can when you're first getting started don't worry as much about your cover letter as you would for, like a real in person job, just 'cause it mice there, is it, it's not worth putting in hours and hours of work for that. Of the ton of great dips, I sound that I've seen. You know what I'm using the platform while I would I thought to that I might add one upward does take a big feed? But please don't assume goes the higher. You talked him in Chad in gets Skype than asset. They can work off of work, 'cause I've had that happened number times normally draw that, that person, I have had now three people that are off work to work, or were save designs to them are still team members one's been there for two years now. It's been there also you're actually since April last year, you know, after we did a couple of products together in work through things, and it was great to bring them off in. We've actually given the raises in different things. These are well, what ones offshore than the other one. This axiom Ontario here. So that's one thing. I find, you know, wiscon- turning the oxide gets along. The first thing is eluding discuss the project. Get off work in Dassault. I'd recommend. Maybe not doing that. At least I found it was a little bit difficult. Neither one is I actually I grieved the cover letters don't waste time writing those out. But do read the job description. I would normally imposing something that I think will get a lot of people responding. I put like trick in it like respond with a three Kate was a bad example, fun with three CS of thought of your cover letter, or something just kind of silly, but something is make sure they're not spam bots, that they're not going to crazy satellites me than fifty obligations in the gift down to twenty pretty quickly without apple read anything. So those would be to tips. I'd add to the mix checkout, as far as going off up work out at that I do often end up going off a lot more with clients, but first of all, I don't use even want to do that for my first job with them, just because upward has certain protections built in the client doesn't pay you or whatever. No, they have things that will make sure that you get your money on. So at least the very first job I always want to do upward, just so I can make sure that this is a trustworthy, person who is actually going to pay me. And then, yeah, I usually will wait for the to ask if I would like to go off of work. I don't usually propose that myself, or I might just simply, you know, ask for a rate increase, just, you know, it's a cover that twenty percent that they're taking off. So, yeah, while it is something that's possible. I wouldn't like, jump into. It's super quickly. And that's the thing you want to build a relationship and then move from there. I mean it gets concord. Right. So you jump off work out this fine how we're gonna pay you're gonna send a voice among us pay the credit card or as Via Banque transfer, whatever it's going to be just it adds. Another layer friction at the very start of the relationship, you know, is kind of losing some jobs, maybe make net more money. I don't have ran the numbers from that side. But he wanna get good clients. Recommend trying to good relationship, then, you know, trying to get somebody to be with them for, for the long haul ear to ear three years. A new cares. The twenty percent in the in the first job, right? Yeah. Definitely their goal. So that was pretty deepened upward night. I have a list here at least twelve tips or something that we kinda pulled out of that. So that's great. Besides besides the, the freelance writing that came out of this in doing as a side hustle was Ernie. Other expected things. Came out of starting your blog in going through the path of communicating science online. Yeah. I think the thing that I didn't expect was that this was actually super helpful to me. In grad school applications, actually, had, I think, like probably two or three people in my interviews, like Santa Fe, have read my blog, which was like amazing Percival. I didn't think any faculty were reading the blog today honest, but it was just amazing. And it was just kind of a conversation starter. And I think that I must have been helpful in getting through those interviews having something, you know, to show that I know what I'm talking about the data how to read papers and communicate them and it really deep way. So definitely courage undergrads to think about having a science fog. If you're considering graduate school, I think it's looked upon really well, especially if you actually have kind of connected, here, your Twitter in your late dinner thing have connected with you personally, and then the other, that's been really great is the network that helped me build, you know, I work with scientists so. You know, hang out with on a scientist and I'm connected with them. But it's kind of really opened up this whole new world of science communicators, podcasters YouTubers bloggers who all have this kind of common goal of making science accessible to non-scientists, and helping them to navigate this world where there's all kinds of people, you know, who may try to take advantage of give pulse information online, so it's really cool to just need all these people virtually for the most part. But in some cases to also, you know, I, I actually added abuse also I ran into a couple of people that I knew from Twitter, who had talked about size indication with and so now I think it was really cool for me. I'm looking forward to getting more involved with that group more that you to those are great comes in the network. The big thing it's now, rare that I travel don't at least scrub a coffee with somebody that eight note, virtually like trying to think of just people I know in Twitter, the in communities with that, you know, I know the punt. Asser mistakes, or whatever I'm actually traveling to San Diego in late July. So maybe we can grab a coffee there at some point to that's just shows how how how it goes normally travel. Now, it's, it's I try to find somebody might consid- on the ground deed or something. It's, it's a really big way to grow your network in a again of you that more. So I think, you know, I think that might be good place to end office up. So's Ernie kind of one. Big thing you wanna leave the listeners with? So these are these are academics are thinking about starting a business in here is doing the way that you can really change the world, these things like all information, and overcoming that things like helping groups that are under served. Those are all really porn topics for regret blogger kind of one. Big thing, you leave leave that is with I think I would say that, you know, derives about blogging is it can be really whatever you want to be. Can you just wanna have a D monetize completely independent blog where you write whatever you want? That is completely fine. That's an acceptable use of your time, and it's still going to be very beneficial to you and to your readers as well not directly making any money off of it. Or if he wants to start a side house, like I did do freelancing, or if you want to make this your entire fulltime job and start a business. Those are all types of science medication. They're all really, really great things involved with. So I don't necessarily be afraid if you want to just be a scientist, you don't wanna be as communicators your whole career. That's completely okay? You don't you don't need to choose one of the other necessarily, you can have both things I couldn't agree more of a really great way to know. Wanna mention so that in late July in San Diego. And then even earlier, not June. Either in Waterloo. Tronto on -tario Tronto or Waterloo. In Ontario, we haven't actually released ugly, but we're going to be doing some meet ups or grab blogger. I don't know if this going to be an event on, we're gonna get speakers frustation. It's gonna be a grab a Gaba beer at a bar or something. But if people are interested in that as August. So comes out, it will be coming out, late may, but when that comes out if you're interested, definitely stay tune on social media. If you're in those areas, we're gonna try to get a couple of people from the community gather at least to talk we'll building business. So that'll be a two or absolute specifically as always, you can get the transcripts at ground, longer dot com slash ten number ten for this episode, and we'll put together a tip sheet from all these kind of rainstorm ideas from from getting your profile together, on upward account of John out. Higher, and we'll put that in the in the show swung. Download out there. So might say thank you. Again, this has been really important to me to see the other side, a dimension done a lot of hiring on, or at one point, I had Evan writers with the science in which, which is I did it on purpose. I want to load the website up with about one hundred posts in two months ah trying to manage seven people writing, and I was writing myself, too. So we had a team of eight writers was was a little ridiculous will be brought that down just myself another on the team now but it's good to see the other side. You know how, how can people become a freelance writer? How can you use your blog to do whatever you wanna do? It's if it's just pure science, communication, if it's building independent research company, if it's helping with your scholarship applications helping with your each gains was all bible ways to go so appreciate you sharing in. I hope to like I said once again descend in. The light eater in there are Syria. Thanks for having me, if any of your listeners have ever have any questions or just want someone to bounce ideas off of, especially if they're undergrads who are getting into this. They can feel free to reach out to me. My Twitter is zooms my website. It's just ails e science so, you know, fill free, anyone has questions. Just let me know. Yeah. The website again is also ails e science were dot com, and we'll put links in the show notes to that mile as a personal website, so will will that up there as well. And actually, if you want to put her elite up can put her profile listing on there as well. Thanks. I really appreciate him. We will be talking to you.

writer Twitter scientist Alzheimer Ontario Alzheimer's disease Ernie kind university of California San D Google San Diego Alzheimer Alzheimer's Association Dr Chris cloney Ken LeGras Nate Waterloo Bochum United States
TimeformUS Forecast - Episode 12 - December 20, 2019

Daily Racing Form

28:03 min | 1 year ago

TimeformUS Forecast - Episode 12 - December 20, 2019

"Hi Everyone Welcome to December twentieth edition of the time for new s forecast. I'm David Aragon and I'll be joined justice. Second by my co host. Craig Miller cousy on the PODCAST. This week we're going to take a look at some steaks racists upcoming this weekend at Gulfstream Park acqueduct. And if you're from their fairgrounds fairgrounds card on Saturday the major graded stakes race. This week is the one at Gulfstream Park Mr Prospector. The Tenth Race on Dad card features two of the top sprinters in the country imperial hinted X. Y.. Jed that's where we'll start things often craig. Let's just dive right in because you've got a movie to make after we record this so let's get things going. Yeah the forced to is GonNa be with me today. I guess go see some some Star Wars. I'm not one of those crazy Star Wars guys going dressed up like darth vader or anything thing but I've seen them also. I WanNa see this one. I do not not all the recent ones so maybe I'll have to catch up at some point. Let's get to the handicapping talk about this. Mr Prospect or stream park. Perhaps it's not the most interesting wagering race. I guess unless you want to take a stand against one of the favorites it is on paper. A two-horse race between these two top sprinters imperial hint an X. Y.. Jet I think the major question regarding these two though is the seven furlong long distance. Because I'm not sure that seven along the best trip for either of these horses. I knowed I made the distance could play a big part in this race. We saw it does look like a two horse rates on paper. As you said IMP- Imperial Hen is three four five at seven furlongs but if you really do a deep dive into the past this performances. Those three wins came in easier races where he made an easy lead early. which is something? That's not likely to happen here with extra X. Y. jet the race X. Y.. Jet Is for three at the distance. He hasn't tried it in the while. They all came pretty early. I think it is three year old season but I'm not gonNA fault anybody for wanting takeout lease the shot against them. I would just say if you're GONNA do that. You need to get page. You can't be taken borderline overlays when you wanNA play against sources like that. I I do think there are a couple of interesting options. I think the lasting legacy is in top form for Jason Service. He's overcome so he's run some big figures and he's done it with not the greatest Pace setups and also think diamond. Hoop says ransom. Figures could put them in the mix Like I said I'm not advocating going against those top two but it. If you somehow were able to get close to double digits on those I could understand I would say that I strongly prefer imperial hinge two extra jet of those two horses. I know that pays projectors predicting the next jet has a pretty significant advantage in this race. They had him on the lead in a situation veteran of runner to me that somewhat mitigated by what we talked about the seven long distance. I think one of these worse gets the distance. The PACE project will help. But I don't think that's going to get them home alone. Oh and and with X. Y.. Jet He's a horse that when he gets into top form. He's among the best printers in the country but we don't always see those top forms out of him. He's a little bit. More inconsistent also bothered by the fact that Hori Navarro has not been winning at Navarro type numbers recently. If you just look over the past thirty days for him in formulator he's only winning six hundred fifty races twelve oh percent with an Roi. That's hovering around fifty cents for two dollars so to me. Those are some negatives I just think a better horse And I trust them a little bit more to get the seven for a long distance. Just didn't like a stalking running style so he doesn't have to go after X.. Y. Jet you early. I think imperial hint is the Horse to beaten here. But given I'm concerned about the distance I would go to lasting legacy as my top miss race. I know you mentioned him as being a horse. That's in good form right now. Jason Service seems to be doing well down at Gulfstream. And I know this hasn't hasn't won by huge margins in his recent raises. But I just like the way that he's done it He didn't get a great trip last time. Out of the Mr Prospector. Nothing admiral trouble Sort of had to run through kickback. And split horses at the top of the stretch thought. He was really game to win that race. The same thing goes for his race to back when he probably wasn't the best part of the racetrack coming up against side to win that day. Just just think overall his form is better than it seems. He's really been unstoppable for Jason Service. We put a force to subpar efforts for Steve Aspirin it along the way but when he's in good form he's running some pretty competitive speed figure so I would take a shot with lasting legacy does race Agree with you on imperial hand. I think of the two the big players that he's the one I'd want my one concern with him as it is drawn inside X. Y.. Jet And I would hope that. They just kind of had X. Y.. GIECO when sit outside eight of them try to make up that ground later but sometimes Johanne gets forced a little bit inside with that long run into the first turn. I think were custody on on our heavy Acosta. Yana will do will do the right thing. but I'm with you of the two I mentioned lasting legacy in Diamond Hoop side do prefer lasting legacy but you know the the point is i. Don't think these two tower over the field as much as the morning line will lead you to believe I do think there's a legit chance at both of them. Good lose yeah. I would agree with that. I don't Dispute Youth. That is going to be bet that way because these are to name horses that have a following but I agree. It's a bit more wide open race than it might seem at first glance. Let's move onto acquiesced. Talk to wear on Saturday. The running the Queen's county stakes going a mile on on the main track and this is kind of a tough race to get a handle on because I think there are number contenders intenders. They all have little minor flaws. I guess the Horse to be as Dan. The man the number two. He's got some speed and I think tactical speed very least is going to be an asset in this race because there's not a ton of it in this field and stand the man probably he's more of a mile or tight but he's gotten the mile distance in the past. The real question for him is the layoff often. I think you've got to ask yourself. Do you WANNA take a horse coming off this kind of lay out. That's going to be a pretty short price. Yeah I don't know if it's good or bad but we thought similarly in here era. I can't take a short price on horse coming off that long layoff going into a long distance. It's probably not as best. So why think he. He's legitimate has shot shot. I landed on Major Cabbie. He's a horse's real good form for Peter Miller. He tried to cork last time where he ran into Tom. State ta who is probably only one of the better older horses in training right now so I think he was a bit above his head is I was just looking for kind of a new shooter in here is only five to two on your morning is so I don't think he's any huge value or anything but but it's just kind of a lesser the many other evils a lot of things I don't like about the other horses in a veal and I don't really have any negative so major Cabbie so he's where I landed the ads. Funny Stan the man. He's been ready to run for a while because they originally entered him in the fall highway. It's actually sleep twice because that race was cancelled twice finally running the third attempt and he didn't run back in that race when they rented the third wall when they tried to run to the third time. They ended up going in his queen's County. Instead I I actually picked him both times in the fall. Highway going six furlongs but in this race where he's going to be the favourite as opposed to the other woman who is going to be a long shot. Just not thrilled with ashore. The price I hear you on major Cabbie. My problem with him is I thought he got really good setups. In those two wins it came on two and three bag. You see those figures. They're all color. Coded Blue for those raises. Just got to control those on the front end and draw in the lane. He's gotTa deal with Stan. The man on the front end not that stand. The man's need the league type pours. Because he's not. I think Major Cabbie could get loosened this race just the mile distance quality of the field. I just I'm not totally sold a major cabbie though I do think he's definitely dangerous given the pay setup I wanted to look for somebody else at a slightly better price. So I'm going back side of the Moon If you follow my picks at Neier Lot you know that this is one of my favourite horses so no surprise. Is it a picking him in this race. But I will say that Rudy Rodriguez got back side of the moon into the top form. That he's been in quite a while his last couple of starts. I thought he ran really well to admit allowance race to back going one turn mile distance and then last time out what I want to say about that race. As well he'll be won by a neck over. No dosing knows. He's a good horse who it probably going that one mile distance and also backside of the mood is never loved sloppy sealed track. So I think it's a credit to him that he was able to win over service. It's probably not what he prefers. He's claimed claimed by Bob Close areas now in some look you that as a negative. Because he's away from Rudy but what goes ours does okay off the claim he actually one. I claim of eighteen to one shot at Belmont Park couple months ago. Go so If he can just hold this horses form I think he's going to be tough because he can get the Distance at his speed figures. Put Him in the mix. Yeah I have no argument. I'm with them. I just a little side note on the Queen's County I just I have to mention one of my favorite horses vault time evening attire I was looking at the winners of this race which I knew he one and it just really jumped out at me. This source won this race when he was free in again when he was nine. I don't know that you'll ever see that again in any stake stories anywhere so I thought that was kind of interesting As far as major cabbie goes He's he's one of these sources I think he's worth tracking. He's he's obviously already running Kentucky Kentucky a few times but I think we're going to see a lot more of these California horses shipping out than we have in your years past due to the the state of racing out there currently so so it may be an age for handicappers out there to this kind of follow these California horses NC when they ship out when they show up at oaklawn and fairgrounds and places like bad How they're doing and how they're speeds how they look on speed figures and how they stack up and if they're transferring? Well Yeah. I think that's actually a really good point. About the California Orson the likelihood of how we might see a lot more of them in the future and evening attire. One of my favorite horses. I remember watching him growing up but I was a kid teenager going to the race track I was there. I think what he wanted to jockey. Gold Cup one of my favorite races was what he battled funny side and I believe it was the excelsior in the spring kind of like the spring counterpart to this race US Oh yeah definitely. It works that I like to go back and watch replays up from time to time. Let's move on to the fairgrounds therefore stakes there that we're going to discuss the running more than four stakes on Saturday. We're going to discuss the ninth through twelfth races actually comprising four sequence We're going to begin with a turf race. The blushing K D which is the night on the car. Then we should mention ahead of time. There is some Inclement weather predicted in the New Orleans. Area I believe there. There's like an inch of rain predicted to fall on Saturday so remains to be seen. What the turf condition is these even? Do stay on the turf. So we'll approach. These raises a little tentatively but the blushing K D. I think the real story in this race is just the amount of speed signed on because I know the pace project was predicting a fast paced. When you start to grow to this field a lot of these WANNA be on the front end and I think something's gotTa give yeah? I totally agree with the pace. Projector in here is the big field of eleven endured. That in itself is a factor in predicting the fast pace. But but it's certainly not the only reason say there's lots of speed drawn in here that includes the morning line favorite dream passage. She is a deserving morning. Line favorite for for Brag Cox but. I do think that as good work against her. So there's two verses interests me in here keeping that peace in mind the first one is the last segment. I really liked her return rate. She did flatten out a little bit late but I like to move. She made she was out in the clear Not Not taking a whole lot of cover through the lane and I thought not ran well and the other one that really interests me in probably would be my top pick. Of course it's GONNA come down the price many times but it's smart Emma Three and four baxie ransom really nice hundred twenty plus time for them. US speed figures. And I think you can give her excuses for the last two the race to back she was in Kentucky Aqui downs. And that's that's just really quirky tracking. I generally put lines through bad races as well as good rates as their last time out a king when she ran. The daddy is a legend to his graded stakes performer. Even though is only allowance raise. I think she went on the run. Second in one of the graded stakes races out in California and there was just absolutely no pace in that race. All the figures are pace figures are color coded blue in. That's another one. I just think you put a line through so if you go back to a couple of races. It makes a really strong contender in here. She likes to come from off the pace. I think she's GonNa get plenty of. Yeah I've got no problem with that. I kinda Kinda landed on the same outlook when I was going through this race. Because it's hard to make a case for a lot of these speed horses getting the right trip and I think the best of the closers is just so obviously smart Emma the morning line. I was kind of expecting to get a better price than five to one in her. But the more reliance probably right because I don't think it takes a rocket scientist that her running style just fits this raise really well and I agree with everything you're saying you gotta reason races I I don't think reform is quite as bad as it seems because she just didn't get the right trip last time as you were alluding to so I got no problem with Smart Emma. We'll see what price she is but she just seemed to fit this raise really well I do want to say I think dream passage is going to be tough. I I know no that she's GonNa get caught up in what supposed to be honest pace but she doesn't need the league. She's been successful from a stalking position past. And she's just a great form right now for Brad Brad Cox if this race does stay on the turf in the course has some give to it. Three passage has no problem handling a yielding or software Course I think that's something that's important to look at We we all know that about a horse like smart Emma per se other worse than that definitely likes given the ground or English soul who handled admit cardinal last time as well as the number ten stave so just just look at data bureau if the trump course does come wetness race stays on but those the ones that I would mostly focus on but I lean towards Marta drink passage. Let's move on to the sugar bowl. which is the second leg of this? Pick for sequence Six furlongs on the dirt for three year olds not the biggest field in the world. But I think it's a pretty competitive rates because you can really make a case for just about every runner in this field. The two towards the insider likely the ones that are gonNA take the most amount of money. Shaw shake me up. Who whose debut we talked about in the past about a month ago and gold street who also went impressively breaking his date natives fourth start Churchill downs last time These to look pretty formidable if they just repeating wins. Don't you think I do but I I actually did wind up going against them I. It's it's a bit of The pace protector doesn't have this protected as fast. But I think all of the inside three horses do have a good amount of speed so i. I don't think anybody's going to get an easy trickier as you said. None of them would surprise me if they improve a bit. I've heard a lot made of the trainer Keith. Disarm Oh oh not doing much with horses first time out we talked about it on our piece cast. But I'm always a little leery of those sources. People seem to expect. The horses are gonNA improve a lot just because because that's what they're normal horse typically does but often when we see horses like that. That really isn't the case. They probably surprised the trainer as well. But I don't expect the same amount round of development as you would normally get. What your typical key? Disarm oh trainee. So you have Steve Asmussen horse right outside Gold Street who who ran twelve finally broke his maiden last time out in this fourth. Start if they're couple second-place finishes got a ninety nine time formula speed figure in any of Ryan's cat right to they're outside. Who's actually about the running his age race already? He shipping in off a big win at Mahoning valley where he won by fourteen lance got the biggest time for them. US speed figure in the field at one. Oh four so I actually went in a little bit different direction in leaning towards self taught in here. He's a little bit lacking on the speed speed. Figures sees run ninety three though as a couple times. Both in victories I- Delaware then he went to Churchill for our Stall First Time in his barn but I really like like the tactical ability. This horse. He's he's been able to sit off the pace both of the last two times two times back. He did it in a race with blue fractions. Last time he was virtually the same position in the race where we have read fractions so I really like that ability to adapt to the peace scenario and I was just looking for a bit of a price and I think he. You might actually be the longest price in here. I don't remember the exact morning line but is a horse. I actually gave a pretty good shot to yeah. This is a difficult race because there are six runners but I really do think you can make a case for all six of them. You did take the biggest price in the morning line and I'm not GonNa Argue with that horse because well he does have to improve a little bit on the speed figures. Yes I agree with everything you said about. The trip is likely to get the trajectory of his career. And now he's improving so I'm not against him by any means. This is the kind of race where if I was playing a pick. Four four sequence I like to use the Steve Chris. ABC Method and. This is one where I would probably split them up among as BS and cs but I use all of them in some In some respects I'd have each one in some kind of slot. I wouldn't throw anybody out in this race. I talked it out I like the two Gold Street. The best he'd be my top picking this race I just thought he ran well even in defeat to three back behind some nice horses and complex fire in Ueno. His stablemate teach finally broke through against a weaker bayden field last churchill downs but I liked the way he did that raise strong impressively laid. He's this big good looking horse with a nice stride onto my thought he got over the sloppy sealed track really well. That day in that bodes well again if the track comes up at the fairgrounds on Saturday so I just think gold street makes a Lotta Sense. Shasha shake me up definitely has ability. I don't have really numbers to back the south but I never liked what horses debut going longer distance and then other seconds starts coming back against winters they cut back and distance to me. That's just not a great sign typically typically when his debut over longer distances because they're usually meant to go longer so I don't love coming cutting back from the seventy six so I'm giving the nod to gold straight if I had to include. Who Long Shadow would probably be axiom? Oh six because I know they tried turf a bunch of times but if you just isolate ACSI almost dirt races you could make the case that he's actually a better dirt horse and handled Campbell slop last time against a weaker field churchill. But he's one that could be picking up pieces late so I go in that direction in the sugarbowl. The one I'm against out of the group we talked about would probably be Ryan's cat and he's a horse that comes in with the biggest speed figure but he really had no competition last time He got away with murder on the Front end-all boy fractions. Not much competition. So He's a horse who has proven. He has to have the lead the win. That's the only way he's one in any of his races so oh he'd be the one I'd be against if I had to pick one I don't disagree with that. He'd probably be my sixth pick as well. But if you're playing pick four sequence and you're leaving out just one horse that always comes is backed by your so. It seems the Eleventh Race Buddy Dylan Berto memorial same distance as the blushing Katie that we talked about before four. But this is for the colts and geldings and horses Going a mile. Sixteen on the fairgrounds tour. Of course this race just gave me a big headache A lot of contenders huge field of thirteen runners again. It's a race that features quite a bit of speed perhaps not as much as the blushing K D. But I don't think you want to be right on the front end here but again if you've got a closer got to work out a trip because it's going to be hard to pass them on this congested field. I give one a mentioned mentioned this. Thirteen but captivating moon is entered both this race and the two nations in the very next rates on the car that we're GonNa talk about so not sure which one he's going to go in in but either way it's GonNa be a big field. I I do agree with the fast pace scenario predicted by the pace projector The two morning line favorites both have some Moroi speed There but there are also drawn far outside their boat. Trained by Brad Cox again. A DOT Matrix in factor. This in because of that I went looking for a closer again in parore really kind of jumped out at me. He was clean blast time out by Mike Maker and we know he does very well with these claims he makes moves in Turks turf stakes. He has the right running style for the race. He's got a good good post in the middle of the field as you say you are. I'm hoping that he's going to work out. A trip He's ten to one on the morning line. I think that winds for that's probably a bit of a pipe dream. I would be happy with half of that on him in ear. But it's a tough race parse away idling. Yeah Parlor is one of the two or three that I would probably narrow this down to as well. He makes a Lotta sense off. The Mike Maker claim that you mentioned He's got back formed to for Freddy Canary. That would just put him right in the mix this race. He had no excuse to lose last time because I thought he got a great trip and really had dead on sailing Solo. WHO's drawn right outside of them here? And almost stuck his head in front in about the sixteenth sailing solo battled back and beat him. And I don't like what horses Tang like that but still maker Dassault will off the claim. Maybe he can push him over the top. My one concern with parlor though. Is that if you look through. As he's never a horse that shown that he really likes any given the ground if the Turquoise does come up wet on Saturday I think that might be an issue for him more than some others It's not going to be an issue for dot matrix that favored in this race. And I do think dot Matrix is the horse to beat He's just been in good form recently. He even handled the eleven for a long distance in the Red Smith last time even though that's probably not as best trip I like him cutting back here. He's going to get some pace to close into but he showed more tactical speed recently. So I don't even think the pace would compromise. It's a little bit slower and he handles handles given the ground so to me. Dot Matrix is probably the most likely winner. Nothing clever 'cause he's probably GonNa be the favorite But I would prefer him to most of the others in this race and we'll see what kind of pricey is factor. This Brad Cox other boers. He's okay too. I didn't think he had a major excuse to lose to renaissance FROLIC last time. They're both okay but I just thought dot Matrix Matrix was a better horse in parlor was the interesting other one to throw in a bit of a better price. So let's talk about the last race. We're going to mention on this podcast. It's at the end of that. Big Four sequence at the fairgrounds the tenacious which Gregg just mentioned before captivating moon entered cross entered in here. This one's on the dirk going a mile on seventy yards and At first I was a little surprised to see a pioneer spirit. Is the morning line favorite. When I started to dig through this race? I see why because there's just not that much speed signed on. I know the pace projectors not predicting situation favoring Warszawa near the lead probably because it's ten horse field but Heiner under spirit just looks pretty loose in this race said if he gets to the front on a pretty moderate pace is just going to be tough to run down. Yeah I looked at it a little bit different different than you did from a piece protector standpoint for one I looked at Ceesay rocket who actually outran pioneer spirit early last time so I I don't think it'll be is easy as the pace projectors predicted and also we have turn Galway who's drawn in the seven post to his basically been sprinter is Ho- career I think he went to turn one surf and he did make the that day so I do think he's a bit of a piece Influences well the one thing I will not is pretty amazing mazing. You don't see very often. Pioneer Spirit was claimed last time out for a hundred and fifty thousand dollars from Brad Cox to the Robert. T know Diadora Barn. I'm not sure what the Mak- that Jim Really. I'm not going to be a big fan of any horse leaving. Brad Cox born Top trainer these days though so I wouldn't expect much of an upgrade. Pioneer Spirit still looks pretty tough I'll say my selection. I'll let you go ahead and see what you think about it. I'm not saying that I would pick pioneer spirit on top. I think he's a horse that you have to take seriously in this race and not that. He's one that needs to lead. I think I probably misspoke there. Because he has been successful coming from just off the pace in the past but he is a horse that appreciates not getting caught up in you know any kind of fast tempo. And I think that's probably not going to develop your but we'll see what happens spends. I do like him in this race. He's not my topic though. I would actually go to lone sailor as my top pick and I know that there's a horse that doesn't love to win races says To say the least he's got eleven second and third place finishes in twenty. Two career starts with just a couple of wins but a couple things about lone sailor. He likes like some face to close in do but I don't think he has to come from quite as far back as they place them in a lot of races. He's got a bit more tactical speed than than he's shown in many starts and I'm hoping that James Graham does it just drag him off the pace here and allows them to at least be somewhere in amid back position because he's run really well to fairgrounds in the past despite not winning here and also he's a horses shown a real affinity for a sloppy sealed track. He won over that kind of going by eleven lengths at Saratoga. When he broke his maiden he nearly won the oaklawn handicap over a sloppy track and Oaklawn oaklawn back in April? And I know people are going to see some poor efforts recently particularly in Korea Cup last time you might WanNa watch that race on YouTube. It's pretty easy to find what search for it. He just got a nightmare trip that day. You really can't take any kind of kickback over that track in Korea. And he was towards the back of the pack his jockey was under a real rush to get amended. The reason just wrote him into trouble multiple points just a nightmare scenario and I would expect them to bounce back here and I think he's as good as anybody else if he runs back to his top racist. I have no problem CEO or other Naidoo worry a little bit about that trip to Korea. He's he has said had some time to adjust coming back. That was is back in September but sometimes don't come back quite the same but the one I wound up going with was blended citizen. I mentioned horses leaving the Brad Cox born. He's one one who reach a recently joined it and look into his past performance as actually think he's a horse who is probably better on dirt than his own turf even always been running on turf mostly lately. he won the Peter Pan as a three year old. He tried the Belmont stakes against justified into any running that day. But I liked the Brad Cox put him right back on the turf. He ran a one seventeen time for. US figure running down a loose loose leader when he won that allowance race last time now we did have a decent amount of pace but but if you watch the start of real problems at the start to break particularly clean kind of took him a few strides to get his feet under him and really get going so i. I was impressed by him and I. I'm even going to upgrade that one. Seventeen he got. I think he's a real strong contender in here. He's not horse that I would dismiss by. Eddie means ordinal picks. I'd probably go. Lone sailor powder spirit put blended citizen third. He's definitely one that I want to include in this race I liked that last as well. He's a horse that have shown promise as a three year. Old Than just kind of fell into a rod and a bad pattern for a while probably racing on maybe the wrong surface as you were pointing out getting back to last time really seemed to wake him up. So I wouldn't be surprised. Golfie continues to improve for Brad Cox so interesting tough sequence at the fairgrounds hopefully gave out some good ideas. But I think it's going to be a tough pick for sequence to hit. We'll see if the weather really impacts these races. Hopefully not and it stays pretty dry down there. It's all the racing for this week Just to do a little bit of housekeeping. We're going to skip the time formulas pace cast next week. That would be following on Christmas Eve. So we'll take that off but we back in exactly one week to do the time. Formula Forecast Next Friday looking at the upcoming weekend races. We'll see how those also drawn because I think a lot of tracks are running Saturday Sunday Monday. Even I think acronyms rang New Year's Day on Tuesday as well so we'll talk about some of those races next week Enjoy the holidays is everybody has always you can listen to the time for the. US forecast and the time formulas PACE GASTON DERIVED DOT COM spotify. itunes YouTube Sound Cloud Reverend. Get podcast just subscribe to the daily racing form channel and check us out. Thanks for listening. This week is most again in one week.

Brad Brad Cox California Jason Service Stan Emma Three stalking Churchill US Gulfstream Park Mr Prospector Craig Miller Ryan Gulfstream Park Mr Prospect darth vader David Aragon Hoop Jed Mike Maker Hori Navarro
6: The New Nazis

Motive

45:13 min | 7 months ago

6: The New Nazis

"Motive is supported by talk space mental health is more precious than ever, but it doesn't have to cost a fortune at a fraction of the cost of in-person therapy. Talk Space connects you to a licensed therapist. You can message twenty, four, seven from the privacy of your mobile device. So you get the support you need at a price. You can afford get one hundred dollars off your first month with Promo Code motive at talk space, dot com, or when you download the APP. This WBZ PODCAST is supported by hey dot com. Emails broken it's a mess but not anymore introducing hey, dot com it's a radical new take on email. Try It free at H. E. Y. Dot Com. You texted me after you listened to the last episode why I have a couple of problems with the last episode. Don't really give a fuck with people think about me I mean people can love me or hate me and I know why do what I do but it is important to not malign the process of disengagement. In the last episode I spoke with a sociologist named Pete. cmih. See me called into question some aspects of how Christian Peach leany helps people disengaged from hate movements. We should have disclosed that me sits on the board of an organization called life after hate which Christian was once part of, but is now fighting court. Also, Christian, wanted to address Siamese doubts about how many people he's helped. Wanted to be able to for the first time in my life. Open up my books to somebody to show them who I've been working with because I believe. In how important this process of disengagement as can I see the spreadsheet of course? Christian. Showed me a spreadsheet of people. He's helped to leave hate movements since two, thousand, fourteen, there are six, hundred, fifteen names on it. When you compare that case load to fully staffed programs in Europe, that's a shockingly high number. But here's the thing they're able to track that because they see things through to the full life cycle I don't have the infrastructure to be able to document that kind of stuff. There's one name I know on this spreadsheet, a person who knows how recruitment to the White Supremacist Movement works today. So his Brendan on here. Brennan is on there. I look and note the entry under a column titled Stage. In, progress. In progress. Boo. Hey Sorry about that. That's okay. So. Yeah. I'll press record now I guess yeah. That sounds good. How are you doing? well. Especially, with this pandemic that we're in now I'm not doing too well. I'M UNEMPLOYED You know my career prospects are looking very, very dark. No one really it for my personal life will talk to me with the exception of my parents. This past spring summer thirty year, old Brendan's Sweeney has been shut in north side Chicago apartment trying not to catch cove nineteen and trying to stop being a racist The only people who really will talk to me now are people in the movement I mean that's mostly who I'm communicating with, and there's just no future outside of doubling down and staying in the movement, which is something I realized that I can't do if I want to live a fulfilling life. What do you mean by that? Well, you can't have like I've I've reached the conclusion that you can't have like a good career. And all these views. When Brennan became a dues paying member of a white supremacist organization he thought he was joining something new. In truth the only thing new about the movement brandon joined was a shiny corporate veneer slapped onto the same old lies that young Neo Nazi skinheads had bought thirty years earlier. And you know before I start talking about those organizations I. Just want to clarify that I've signed and yeas for both of them. But I just wanted to bring that to your attention before we proceed. NDA's nondisclosure agreements. Today's young white supremacists don't shave each other's heads or swastika tattoos to initiate new recruits they draft and signed legal contracts. Brendan is what I would call the perfect result of boots to suits. Boots to suits the deliberate strategy in the nineteen nineties to mainstream white supremacist and neo-nazi. Ideology. Christian Peach Leaney was a neo Nazi skinhead back. Then today he's working with Brendan to help him disengage from the movement. He was kind of the result of that bridge when we tried to mainstream the ideology right when I was leaving the movement enrolled in a college campus khaki pants and a Polo Shirt Brennan is exactly what they need right now. From WBZ Chicago I'm Odette Yussef and this is motive. The new Nazis. I, I, just want to ask why you're doing this interview. Yeah I mean I'm doing this interview to make a clear break from the movement and I. Think I have a long way to go. Before I make some substantive changes to be perfectly honest but it's decision. I. Absolutely have to move forward with is breaking from the movement officially which I'm doing here right now. If you Google Brendan Sweeney. CHICAGO. The top result is Brandon's docs. Adopts is the publication of private and identifying information about someone posted online. It's a method used to expose extremists, Brendan stocks detailed what he did during two years as a leader in the so called identity movement. It's Likely, the reason he's been unemployed much of the year. Any prospective employer who did a simple search would have found it. You know I had a while paying like six figure job right in the middle of downtown Chicago which I had lost like immediately, Brendan wants a six figure job again and he doesn't want his top google result to be Brendan the racist anymore. He wants it to be Brennan the reformed racist that's why he agreed to talk to me. To Be Clear Brendan isn't reformed, any probably won't be for a long time, but he is at a crossroads he's left the movement and he starting to reexamine his racist beliefs. Christian encouraged him to speak publicly on this podcast I. Think it is finally going to put it on record in his own words who he was and what he did. And how he feels now about it and the steps taken to try in disengage. Explain identity -Tarian to me. It's advocating for the interest of white people like really our main issue probably for most of identity Europa's existence. The only issue we are really advocating for was an end to immigration both legal and illegal brandon was part of an option called, identity. Europa. The Southern Poverty Law Center classifies identity Europa. As Neo Nazi hate group it was founded in two thousand sixteen and it took its cues from the IDA -Tarian hate movement that started in France. They're anti immigrant anti Muslim activists call for the creation of white ethno states. They say people who share common blood and a native claim to the land should rule themselves. When identity -Tarian ISM to the US it had to be repackaged because white Americans don't share common ethnicity nor do they have a native claim to this land? Some young white people like Brendon bought it. I mean for me it was just like we want to hold onto power we have and we want to gain power we can back. The timing of the message couldn't have been better. In two, thousand, Fifteen, the US Census Bureau was projecting that by this year twenty, twenty less than half of kids in the US would be non Hispanic White and that by twenty forty four, the country would be majority minority. If anyone doubted things were shifting, they just had to look to the White House or a black man was finishing out his second term as president. Do People like Brendon people who on some level may even acknowledge racial injustice in the US. All this was scary. By, we don't deny that minorities are not treated with the best of care. In our society and historically have been and what we're saying is we don't want to be in that position. That's what we were all about. The any sort of minority is going to be treated badly regardless of the system that you have. In Brendan's view and in the minds of many white supremacists, we live in a zero sum world. If one person rises another person falls and arbitrarily the thing they've latched onto to divide groups of people is race. Just, like the secret knowledge Christian thought he had when he listened to white power music and predictions of a coming race war Brendan came to think he was able to see things that other white Americans were blind to. There's the sort of like pretentious hipster vibe to it. We thought like Oh you know we see this huge demographic issue coming before you know all these normal people do. All these people who just want to go to their local dive bar and drink light beer and you know watch the latest sports gain and talk about the latest Netflix show. Are Some day you know their lives are going to turn upside down. I spent hours interviewing brandon trying to understand why a young person joins the movement today. For him it offered simple explanations for the deep disparities. We see every day around us you know I'm open to new. And developing an entirely new worldview here. But like I mean, you look at statistics on, for example, the statistics on average Iq and things like that. The statistics on crime those verifiable statistics, it's not just opinions. Brandon claims genetics are the reason for racial differences in Iq and crime rates. That's not true. But it's American racism WANNA one. Brendan's conclusions exist in a vacuum that refuses to acknowledge the effects of America's history and systemic white supremacy. It's the same statistical garbage Christian learned as a young Neo Nazi. What he saying to you is like textbook propaganda, it is the textbook mainstreaming of blatant racism. These are all like nonsense factoid and I'm putting up air quotes for radio listeners. These are nonsense factoid that people in the movement have been fed so that they never fully buy in to what is reality. The fact that Brendan fell for the same propaganda that Christian did thirty years ago still surprises me I. Christian was a lot younger fourteen when he became an extremist. Brendan. was over twenty. And he was college educated. During his College Years Brendan says, he didn't consider himself on the right at all but there were a couple of things that bothered him. He did Improv comedy and he didn't like being sensitive to the experiences of non white people something he calls pc culture. and. He noted how the University of Illinois was getting in more students from China than any other college in the US. I mean I was friends with a couple of them but you a lot of students that were from China. You know speaking in Chinese like not really assimilating and you know it was almost like they had their own world that was within. Our college campus instead of something that was more integrated. Brendan graduated in two thousand thirteen. In the years after that, he watched as a new crop of young extreme-right provocateurs started making waves mostly on the Internet. It. was a jumble of male supremacists Islamophobes and conspiracy theorists. At the same time, the black lives matter movement was continuing to spread across the nation. Brennan said, he felt it sensationalized the murders of Trayvon, Martin, and other. Black Americans. Brendan's affinity for the extreme-right may have started with what by now has come to be just another policy position in America that immigrants and immigration are bad. But. That was just the gateway drug within a couple years Brendan adopted more explicitly hate-filled. Beliefs. He embraced the label of racist. We want to expand white privilege and deep, and I mean that in a way seriously I do care about my people more than I care about other people just it wasn't until I came across Richard Spencer that I really adopted something a worldview that I felt was more coherent. For a time. Richard, Spencer was the golden boy who was engineering the revival of America's White Supremacist Movement. He had coined the term alt-right short for alternative right which aimed to unite those disjointed extremists under one roof. He recycled tired assertions that whites are biologically superior to blacks and argued for the separation of races. You gotta remember at that time to Richard was getting a lot of mainstream media attention that wasn't. Blatantly negative. Spencer looked respectable addressed in suits. He was educated. He had dipped out of like a duke PhD program to Become Professional Racist. Just the way he was worrying everything seemed eloquent to me as well with this guy is saying seems to make sense to me. Spencer was pushing the outer limits of what most white Americans might consider acceptable. Brendan said he adopted Spencer's views. But he didn't think Spencer's goals were achievable until another man showed up. I am officially running. For President of the United States. And we are going to make. Our country. Great again. The big thing that got me into the stuff was trump's campaign when Mexico census people, they're not sending like I remember he had his first speech that was kicking off his campaign bring in crime, their rapists, and some I assume are good people. If you look back to what trump was saying on the campaign trail I thought like is explicitly white nationalist he's calling Muslim ban. Building a wall, a Hick, deporting all these Mexicans and stuff I. Mean Am I wrong. I remember feeling shots when I saw that video. But the shock wore off as trump's campaign went on. I really started consuming all this content you to twitter facebook they all still had algorithms where you could be like looking at like some pro-trump stuff, and then you'd see like something wildly antisemitic like right after that. How time are you spending on your computer? I don't know probably too much. Yeah probably way too much time. Brendan says he became desensitized to the racism and anti-semitism. And when trump won against Brendan's expectations, he started thinking maybe there was a real shot at keeping white men on top in America. I mean, we thought with Donald. Trump is the president. We could achieve our goals through the system peacefully. Brendan pins the blame for his involvement in the movement pretty squarely on trump. Do you buy that. No blame trump for for kicking over the bucket of gasoline that ignited all the little sparks that already existed. He didn't create the fire they were there. They just weren't connected. What he did was came over and kicked over that bucket gasoline just joined them all. A. Few months after trump took office Brendan applied to join an identity -Tarian Organization called dity. Europa. I wanted an outlet to talk about this stuff with people 'cause I lost many friends like just by articulating these views and that needed to stop I, just needed to stop posting about it and social media stop talking about it like around friends like you you get drunk and someone would say something about how they felt about politics and then like after few years would say what I felt and that which just like disastrous. Joining white supremacist organization in 2017 seventeen basically consisted of exchanging few. Emails and a video interview. And sharing the results of a genetic test like twenty three and me to prove that you were white European and not Jewish. There was sort of like it sounds weird but it was kind of like a resume. In the movement. When Brendan was being vetted for Identity Europa membership he asked if there were any organized events coming up the recruiters said, yeah there was a thing in Charlottesville Virginia that was going to be pretty big. It was this unique opportunity for everyone like across the country to go there and have these views expressed in the public space and show the world that it wasn't just like this fringe thing. That there were actually real people a lot of real people who had these views and wanted to advocate for them. So here a warning we'll be revisiting the violent and potentially triggering events that happened in Charlottesville skip the next six minutes if you want to get past the section. Before the unite the right rally the young people who are joining groups like identity Europa were mostly interacting online and even then many used online handles that hid their true names. So the idea of meeting face to face and publicly coming out as unapologetic supremacy states was exhilarating. Brandon was fired up. But from almost the moment he arrived in Charlottesville, he started to see things were not what he thought they would be. This is supposed to be something new that we're going to have the guys who we called one point one point Oh meaning guys like Christian guys like Tom Metzger people who are operating in the eighties or nineties before. Like we weren't gonNA. Have those types of people be involved in this outright Charlottesville thing. But yet I got there and there's David Duke like right in front of me. Brennan's issue with a one point does wasn't ideology they were all on the same team. But the old guys were embarrassing Duke and Metzker had been hooded Klansman at one point. Neo Nazi skinheads were violent hooligans. Brandon thought he was better than them. His first night in Charlottesville. Brendan marched in a torch rally around a statue. The other guys there were like him young and preppy wearing white shirts and Khakis. So, we cried around the statue and you know the the leftist were all gathered around the statue and we were chanting back and forth there were fights that were breaking out. And that was my first incident of activism. In this thing was that Friday torch Marshon I remember like my heart was like really beating like I was. Participating in something that had never really happened before within recent history. But yeah, I did get a thrill out of the whole March itself. The next day Brennan was excited to rally again with his fellow racists he remembers arriving at the site. The protesters you saw that black and red this huge black and ready for flag, and then there's all these pastors that were chanting and clapping love has already one love has love has love has already won. I remember like fueling dis- weird weird feeling like as I was going through those pastors with that chance, you know stepping into the rally space. And it was just such a surreal feeling. Brendan said it felt surreal because just a few years earlier he considered himself a lefty. He even had made a website to troll notorious homophobic hate group. And just. Like how completely switched? Just within a matter of a few years. Like I, I was now on the other side of. What was called like hate or whatever? Because that would have been me like just like when I was like eighteen nineteen years old like protesting these hateful people or whatever. And yet I was. Through then you know into the other side into that space. The cognitive dissonance didn't stop when Brendan crossed that line. The people at this rally were different from the ones he'd marched with the night before one of the first things I saw this guy with this this goofy t shirt with a picture of Adolf Hitler's face. and. I just remember thinking like I was told that there wouldn't be people with like explicitly like neo-nazi stuff but yet, I walk in there and that's the first thing I see. So like I mean, I didn't sign up for that I didn't sign up for something that David Duke is going to be at. This is supposed to be a new thing. And In retrospect. It was incredibly naive of me to believe that that's just how it was gonna go like we're just GonNa have this optics friendly totally new movement with no references to any. Skinheads staff or World War Two Nazi stuff and that's just how it was going to be. Always Shit. Brandon said he didn't find out until that evening about the killing of a thirty two year olds counter protester named Heather Higher. It didn't we were aware like that it was going to be the slight absolute disaster. And I don't know it was just like this. Sorry. If I'm like pausing so much but. I just like. I'm just processing this like Now, we're on the spot guest by just how I stayed in the shift for so long. And it should have been in that moment. It should have been after that event that I realized there was no future for that movement. Motive is supported by talk space. Mental health is more precious than ever, but it doesn't have to cost a fortune at a fraction of the cost of in-person therapy. Talk Space connects you to a licensed therapist. You can message twenty, four, seven from the privacy of your mobile device. So you get the support you need at a price. You can afford get one hundred dollars off your first month with Promo Code motive at talks base dot com or when you download the APP. There's a lot going on right now around the world around the country, but also right around the corner in your community. So we're trying something new the team behind all things considered is teaming up with your local station for a new daily podcast called consider this we go beyond the headlines to keep you informed about what's happening in your community, right alongside the most important national stories so you can make sense of the day. I always knew bit in the back of my mind that eventually there was probably be a day when I was docs because of the high activity levels I was putting out there. The thing that Brendan Still Wonders about himself is. Why did he stay in the movement? Even after the disaster of Charlottesville I've talked about this with other people movement like staying with this stuff even when you see everything's going wrong but you still get like little hits of dopamine like the thrill of some of the things that we were doing i. I did want to get back to those thrilling feelings that I experienced that Friday night met torch. March though I mean that's sort of like addictive nature did stick with me. Brendan's activity in the movement actually deepened after the unite the right rally. Part of it was wanting to revisit the highs. But it was also that even after a fascist drove his car into a crowd and killed someone. The president of the United States signaled his approval of the white supremacists. But you also had people that were. Very fine people on both sides. You had people in that group excuse me excuse me you know he pretty much. Made an effort to like not denounce the people were at that rally. which I felt really good about obviously at I I mean I can't emphasize enough the reason I got into this stuff was because of that man. Like I think it's me and thousands of other guys my age like in their late twenties like were radicalized by. President trump. Brendan says some people in his circles wanted to see non white Americans. Forcibly displaced from their homes. He claims he wasn't that extreme but Brendan says he did want to bring an end to immigration. And with President Trump, he felt there was a real possibility that could happen. Brendan. Took on the role of a kind of field organizer, my role in identity AROPA and in American identity movement was first to oversee the Illinois chapter and that grew to the point at I was overseeing several midwestern states. So I was effectively Midwest regional coordinator and what were the responsibilities. hosting regular meet UPS like typically at least once a week. A. Firing planning other big activism stuff. Brendan left marks all over Chicago and far beyond he hung posters and placed stickers for identity. Europa. On a college campus at popular tourist sites and anywhere that would incite controversy. He and his pals unfurled a banner from the overpass of a busy highway leading into Chicago that read Danger Sanctuary city ahead it was a brief stunt that was broken up by police, but it got the media attention they wanted. And just like Clark Martell and Christian Peach leany. He set his sights on bringing more young people into the white supremacist movement. January of two, thousand, nineteen was probably the height I remember that I had grown Illinois membership by twenty percent. Who did you think made good candidates for recruitment I was looking for young professionals typically in their mid to late twenties you know people who I weren't totally crazy didn't. Talk about violence or glorify Hitler or any of that stuff. You know people who are educated had a good job had something to contribute. The fixation on optics this no. Hitler. No violence stuff was a big deal. The CHARLOTTESVILLE failure had widened a rift among white supremacist groups. Some said, it showed exactly the kind of. Necessary in their quest for a white ethno state that it was time to abandon the pretence and show what they really were. Racist Jew. Hating Neo Nazi fascists. But Brendan's wing the identity. Emerged with the opposite view. They thought there was still a chance to mainstream their beliefs among white Americans if they distance themselves from Nazis skinheads and the K. K. K.. We kicked out people for saying and doing stuff that were overtly Nazi. Like if you were to sick I or something, you'd get kicked out. But. If you were around like one or two friends there would be sharing of contents. Brendan said that in private they got their kicks from looking at Nazi memes that attempted to normalize the horror. Humorous videos, music videos that sort of stuff. satire articles that would be you know explicitly frowned upon if you get them saying. Christian Pizza leany says it was boots to suits all over again, another rebranding of white supremacist ideology to appeal to a broad new. But are they Nazis. Yes. I mean maybe not National Socialists. Ideologically. But are they in value system? Yes absolutely. I would argue that for for all white supremacist and ultimately their end goal is the separation or the diminishing of other races. In a perfect world. Whether you're a part of the American identity movement or you are part of the National Socialist Movement or you are an atom Waffen Division member your goal is to live and sustain yourself separately than anybody who has not like you and about maintaining control of what they see as white supremacy. Brendan spent two years trying to quietly grow the movement. But someone was keeping an eye on him. I mean I, I knew that it was going to happen the day before in early December. Last year Brendan was docked the person who did it had been corresponding with Brendan over twitter posing as an interested new recruit to identity -Tarian, ISM. In fact, it was someone with Chicago Anti-fascist Action An ANTIFA group that exposes Fascists Neo Nazis and racists. Sent in Lanky, his first interview he didn't get all the way through the vetting process because he didn't want to send the DA. but basically I check my twitter morning a Sunday morning, December eighth I believe and I see that he's like. Completely like shut down his twitter handle it changed its something else like ha or something like that. Was the twitter name and Yeah I knew then that I was getting taxed. The docks was posted the next day. It's long. It included Brendan's misogynistic and homophobic tweets a timeline compilation of where he had left white supremacists propaganda photos of his family's home in a leafy Chicago suburb one of him dressed in a bow tie and blazer and screen shots of Brendan Interviewing applicants from his office at a downtown marketing firm. I was pretty careful about everything. So as hoping you know they wouldn't get worked and you know other information. But for the most part, they got all the important stuff to just completely ruined my life. The first thing Brendan did was call his boss. It didn't make any difference and yeah, I mean I was fired a couple hours. Later ANTIFA had also made it difficult for Brendon to show his face in his neighborhood they we pasted flyers with my face and my address on them all over Lincoln Park really So I had to go out with like a grill scrubber in a bottle of WINDEX and scrape those off most of Brendan's friends cut off ties with him. His siblings stopped speaking to him and his career fell off a cliff. Head like frequent panic attacks and stuff. I. Don't know like it's. I felt like I was really playing with fire like I had flown too close to the sun and I put myself in that position I. Mean I was deliberately antagonizing these people for years. and I had done that to myself. The thing about Brendan's stocks is it showed him the steep social and personal consequences of getting caught. But it didn't necessarily change his convictions. So I understand you you regret those personal decisions that got you into this trouble but do you have any regrets about the belief system that you embraced and promoted? I'd be lying to you. If I said I'm a I'm a changed person. I've seen the light I. You know. I feel entirely different about all these issues one hundred percent that's just not the case and I don't WanNa diminish the experience if anyone else has gotten out of this thing but I questioned the honesty of anyone who? Does say that stuff right after I got out of it. I interviewed Brendan six months after his docs. And he's still sounded like a white supremacist to me. He called himself naive basically for pulling for the wrong team for misreading the tea leaves and thinking America was ready for a white nationalist agenda. But even when brandon seemed to approach remorse for certain actions. His reasoning was still twisted. When it comes to things that have changed my belief son I mean you look at some of the neighborhoods whereas putting these fliers like Logan Square it's like why did the fires needs to be there? Logan Square is in North West Chester neighborhood that until recently was predominantly Latino. Brendan went there one day and taped up flyers saying it's okay to be white. Local, news outlets covered it. You know they're like undocumented people who? This is their neighbor it's not like. A recent Mexican neighborhood either those fires really didn't have any place in Chicago like navy you know like Oklahoma or Nebraska her something where there's still like white communities and there's still at least a chance that this sort of. Worldview could help those communities maybe there. But like in a place like Chicago th, that's not gonNA accomplish anything. There are just so many layers of baseless assumptions here like the one about residents being all or mostly undocumented Mexicans or that only undocumented residents would feel targeted by the propaganda. But also Brendan's regret isn't about spreading the propaganda. It's that he was wasting his time in a neighborhood where non whites already were in his simplistic view ground that white people had already lost. But when I interviewed Brendan, he honestly seemed to be at an inflection point where he was willing to rethink everything would you ever have left the movement or rethought your involvement had not been docked? Yeah I mean. So it's weird like I've corresponded with ANTIFA, over email and I've actually thanked them for what they have done for me. Is probably gonNA sound crazy to just about everyone listening to this. But if I'm being totally honest with you I don't think I would have if I didn't suffer the severe consequences I've gone through. This is one of the most interesting things about brandon. He's actually working with Antifa, to de radicalize. Brendan's learned from his doctor about how his actions hurt people. and. I. Mean I found out later on that like the flyers I was putting in those neighborhoods like people required therapy. from like seeing those flyers there probably are other people in the movement who would take delight in the fact that people had to go to therapy for their actions but definitely wasn't the case with me. I emailed with Brendan stocks or two. He to be interviewed on tape because just around when I contacted him president trump had tweeted that he would designate Antifa a terrorist organization. Brendan's doctor said he had suggested readings to Brendan shows to watch and concepts to learn about the to discuss their pasts and Brendan share details about the movement. He wrote that Brendan's decision to talk publicly with me with his real name and affiliation was not to be taken lightly. And that the point of Dachshund Brendan was quote that it ends the supply of dopamine hits ends the secrecy and outs and individual to those who are harmed by their actions. He said the fact that Brendan's willing to leave his old worldview behind is reason for hope. Wondering DACHSHUND NECESSARY In some cases. I think so. I think. So Christian, peach Cellini says that for someone like Brandon, the Docs brings them back to the reality of what our society should find. Acceptable. They choose this this lifestyle they choose to publicly you know hurt and chain people whether it's online or in person. And I think that they have to learn to deal with the consequences of it, and the fact that it is a toxic ideology that is historically murdered people and that that is not okay in our society. That is not okay. Part of Christians work with Brendon has also been to connect him to. Which Brandon says he probably needed before he even joined the movement anyhow. In a recent email to me, Brendan said, he just finished reading a book, his therapist recommended how to be an anti-racist by Ivanov ex Kennedy. He wrote that book has effectively challenged assumptions I held about what anti-racism is all about. De Radicalizing. Extremists is hard and long work. and. Like everything else is even harder in the age of covid. How worried are you about? Brandon right now. I'm worrying about him because I know you know it's. Perfect storm, right like all this is happening and he lost his job you can't find a job. We've got stayed home orders. There's every obstacle possible in the way right now to this guy's recovery, you know like he needs to to find an outlet. He needs to interact with people to continue to challenge narratives to keep that momentum going pretty stuck in his apartment by himself with only those old connections. I still do talk with some of them informally it's not like especially during this pandemic since they have no one else to talk to frankly I need to talk to someone I mean that's only human. Sorry if someone has problem with that, but I need someone to talk to. But? No, I'm not. I'm not joining any official groups or any official like servers or anything like that. Just informal like little tax here and there with individuals. But. In another way, the pandemic has made it clearer than ever to Brendan, that he's never going back. Our movement doesn't the movement. I was formerly and does not offer a coherent solution to what we're going through now. But the movement is eager to provide explanations none of them based in truth. Now, you see a lot of people that I worked alongside are doing are pushing out anti vaccine conspiracy theories and even worse like people I worked along with in leadership whose intellect I respected are they've sent me stuff about how? Cove nineteen. The virus is coming from five G. Cell Phone Towers, and you know I, I'm thinking here like I'm unemployed like no one in my personal life will talk to me and these are the people who are lost my career for just people who are that dim. sorry to be so blunt but all these people want to hear is crazy talk and conspiracy theories and I don't WanNa be any part of that. But these conspiracy theories haven't struck. All Americans as crazy. And it's just the opportunity that some in the movement have been waiting for. A Next time on motive. The Nazis that other Nazis are scared of. ACCELERATION EST believe. That there is a downfall of society coming. But they need to kind of foster commit these kind of terroristic acts, pour gasoline on, encourage it to happen. So it happens faster. That extremist organizations have infiltrated the protest intent on stirring up trouble in one western intelligence warning to white supremacists may also show up in an attempt of rain black people as violent offenders, and so the seeds of. Racial. This is the breakdown of society they've been waiting for. It just needed to be destroyed. The whole thing is a be the for. An order to. Employ Fascist. Motive is a production of WBZ CHICAGO. I'm Odette Yussef the. Producer is Colin McNulty. Our executive producer is Kevin Dawson story consultant Christian Peach Cellini our intern is Hannah boomer shine Joe Dassault mix the show original music by Stephen Jackson and Jesse dukes special. Thanks to listeners whose financial support of WBZ made this podcast. Possible.

Brendan brandon White Supremacist Movement President Trump Brennan Brendan Sweeney United States Chicago president Charlottesville CHICAGO Brendon America Brendan stocks Chicago twitter Brendan Interviewing Europe David Duke
2: Romantic Violence

Motive

37:07 min | 8 months ago

2: Romantic Violence

"Motive supported by Adler University continuing the pioneering work of the first community psychologist at Adler by graduating socially responsible practitioners, engaging communities and advancing social justice. A degree from their university equips you advocate for change in the social conditions that affect population health and wellbeing explorer, program options for Psychology, public leadership, counseling and family therapy registering now for their Chicago campus and online degree programs at Adler dot? Edu. This WBZ PODCAST is supported by hey dot COM E mails, broken. It's a mess but not anymore introducing hey dot com it's a radical new take on email. Try It free at H. E. Y. Dot Com? We should warn you before you listen to this podcast. It's about the organized white supremacy movement. In order to tell this story full, you'll hear explicit language descriptions of violence disturbing references to the Holocaust and racial slurs on bleeped. The skinhead movement has no basis or foundation racism whatsoever says the exact opposite. I've had this conversation. I can't even count how many times in thirty years I've been involved. In the scene, it seems surprising now but in the early nineteen eighties skinheads in Chicago were diverse. There were white skinheads, Latino Skins Jewish skins and black skins. But over time the skin had seen also became a place for Nazis original skins like Dan Bonfield didn't want them around. I'm sure you may have heard of the the skokie incident the one where the guy was like hog tied at the statue right I was there that night? One night in the fall of Nineteen eighty-eight Dan was hanging out at a friend's place. Askin had from. ATLANTA. Had just rolled into town with no place to stay typical thing in Chicago was basically in the skinhead culture. If a guy shows up from out of town and he's a skin yet give them a place to crash get him some beers, take him out show him around town you know hospitality. At first the new guy seemed okay. But then he introduced himself, he went by Whitey powers and there was that Tattoo on his arm I think it was death to race mixing or something like that. And we're like oh Kay. You had this huge black with despite through the best. The reason mixing that did not overall. Duane Thomas was there to Duane was one of Chicago's first black skinheads. So the Chicago hospitality crew plies Whitey powers with beer then they take him downtown and beat him up. What they did next has become part of Chicago skinhead folklore, they hog tied Whitey with duct tape. We threw him in the trunk. He had was swastika armband and a stuffed in his mouth. We drove the SKOKIE skokie is a Chicago suburb. It was once home to thousands of Jewish survivors of the Holocaust. When they get there they pull whitey powers of the trunk and dump him on the ground bound and gagged right at the foot of the skokie Holocaust memorial. dwayne said that finishing touch was his idea. Like the perfect thing to do I can think of anything else to deal with. Food, Nazi fucking staked out the Jewish war memorial Dan. Bonfield had left before the skokie part. Here about that, until he saw the news the next day in my opinion good show on that one. Kinda headed common. In the last episode, we met Christian Peach Leaney, a former Neo Nazi skinhead and leader of a white power band we were. Vanguard warriors fighting on the frontlines of a very fierce battle over the safety of the white race. In this episode, we go back five years before Christian became a skinhead to win the first skins emerged in the city of Chicago and the war over whether they're seen would become the recruiting grounds for a new generation of white supremacists in America. From WBZ Chicago I'm Odette Yussef and this is motive. Romantic violence. Mainstream culture in the eighties it was crap. Welcome to Ramsey music television the world's first light teacher. The clothes were hideous the hairstyles, the mullets and the domes shit like that. We. Want to sit coms from the eighties. They are Shit Shannon. The pop music was crap. Movies were garbage. Is One of the worst periods of all time. In the eighties, David Spears was a suburban Chicago kid with a Mohawk. If you were a team at that time who didn't want to conform life was tough. For them when I first started being into punk rock. If you looked different at all people wanted to beat you up and today. I. Don't think there's anything like that I mean people walk around nose-rings Tattoos and the Drugstore WanNa be up over. The I think you're a little weird but I mean people literally would jump out of cars and want to beat you up the Jackson's you fucking Faggot and want to kick the shit out of you at David? There was something even worse about the eighties and the rise of shopping malls and bad fashion. It was the country's new president Ronald Reagan. We'll restore hope and we'll welcome them into a great national crusade to make America great again. Ah. To a kid like David, the right-wing movie stars is sent to the White House was disastrous. The very launch of Reagan's campaign in a small town called Philadelphia Mississippi was alarming. Reagan. Chose a town that was notorious for the murder of three civil rights activists in the sixties they were brutally murdered by white residents who resented their effort to register black voters. To some Reagan's choice of venue was a clear nod to racist white Americans that with him they'd be on top again. What happened to this country? How come white men can't ruin everything anymore and where we are today is a continuation of that. At a time when David felt alienated by mainstream culture and the direction, the country was taking there was one solace use. It. Was for the Punk, rock thing just a rejection of the culture and society in general whatever that means to a teenager. Find a bunch of Middle Ages. Now, who are in the skinhead scene back in the eighty s every one of them can tell you about when they first punk. Music. Some kid walked up to me in school and handed me this cassette tape. One side said the sex pistols on the other side of the city iggy pop so I took it home and put it in the tape player. And kind of changed my life. Very similar upbringing, listening to music I would spend hours going through these bins in just buying music in. Yeah. It changed my life I. Suppose like anybody young you want something want something dangerous right? Young girls and boys escaped into the music and the fact that they could look however, they wanted bomber jackets, Jean Jackets, leather jackets, tattoos of all kinds, blue hair, green hair mullets, Mohawks, and eventually shaved heads. A lot of Chicago's early skinheads started out as punks and those who adopted the look took a great deal of pride in it. Are you eventually shaved my head and started dressing kind of that way? We just seem clear to be punk I've always been very hygienic. So I like the feel of in my head shaved. And getting shaved in was a right of passage among friends. Duane Thomas was an early skin. Eight LOOK BACK SINCE In the eyes of many these teenagers counterculture a look mark them out as lowlifes troublemakers I think a lot of people think the. Violent all the time. Can Be further from the truth. They did fight. But also when they got together, there was the regular stuff to. The retired where it was, we would just generally get together drink beer beasts do just Like kids you know. I never really had like. Like family dynamic that I felt. With a lot of these guys call my brothers, you know they made me. Feel like I mattered I guess. And their home was wherever they came together for live music? The Chicago scene had a rich ecosystem of dive bars and diy shows at friends, houses, church basements, and eventually larger clubs like bands came to town. The were always like excited that we were roundly cobbles fucking hardcore core they were like. This city pecan racks. A lot of stuff going on and a lot of venues. It really did matter what day of the week was there's a show we were going. Places like the Ali Boy Metro and the cubby bear and eventually. Medusa. Medusa 's became a hub for Chicago teens in the eighties not just skinheads punks but kids who are into all kinds of music. It was technically a juice bar that served no alcohol but people drink in the alleys. Skinheads, found a place where they could fit in. and. It felt like one big dysfunctional family people quite friendly for the most part you know and then there was a strong sense of humor about things that were cliques but there were no real issues between the clicks at the time. Even if there were clicks there, there wasn't a big problem with that people got along because it's all we had. It was very diverse back in the day. There was like Spanish keizer was Polish. Kids. Like Russian scans. Nuts. And in Chicago, there was a strong core of black skinheads. Hello Hi Luanne, it's Odette in Chicago. Hey we'll talk. I WanNa really talk to you about all this Leon Harris was one of them. The world is still on educating about skinheads Shit I live by the skinny cold for long fucking time being a black man. If, there's an unofficial historian of black Chicago skinheads. It's Lon listening to him is like strolling down a hallway of portrait of the great black skins of the eighties old people care about all these Nazis don't tell you about the glory years leading up to everything and and like these black man and Latino men that were skin as. Thomas was one of the first stood it listen to a Lotta like music from England like the special selector madness just gravitated towards that naturally. dwayne grew up in public housing, a place called cabrini-green on Chicago's north side that became known in the eighties for gang violence. Think I really liked the whole skinhead thing because like a lot of the punks I knew back then we would go to these marches Klan rallies and go there and fight these guys like so a couple skins there, and that's all they were on the front line they fought. There were also sunny Mardi Mickey Will Quinn and Jabari Diva who went by the name corky Margie was probably much more advanced philosophically than I was at that time whereas he made no bones about embracing black power ideologies I shied away from it for many black skinheads there was an added layer of political activism, but their politics didn't always agree. Yeah I'm more on the Working Class I I. At that time I perceived as something bad with alienate potential allies. Some of them literally wore their politics on the sleeves of their flight jackets. Lewan Harris. Make you used to make everyone where African patches on their flight. I have African sick but I'm an American. So back in the day I wore Chicago. Patch flight and I wore an American flag Mickey on the other hand just finally was pretty significant Black Panther. Chicago strong black skinheads were one reason the scene was so inclusive in the beginning. And in a way, it made sense. The very roots of skinhead is in nineteen sixties, England crossed working class pride with Jamaican. Rude boy subculture. reggae and later scom music. In the beginning skinheads really were diverse multi racial. But around nineteen eighty, three David speers notice the first sign of trouble. It appeared on concrete wall along a highway just west of downtown Chicago. was in a lot of racist graffiti. and. It had this post office box that said romantic violence. And trying to figure out what it was. David hunted around and found out that the person who put up the racist graffiti was a guy named Clark Martell. He told his friend Martin. Bill. Hemmer about it. I remember telling me you know there's this Guy Clark this sort of Nazi cap that's kind of spray painting stuff all around and and trying to recruit. You know and I thought it was Kinda. Weird. I thought. Well, it's sort of a weird pasture for him to try to recruit an didn't think it would get very many recruits. Dan Bonfield was also hearing rumors. Have you heard about this Guy Martelle? He's got this thing called romantic violence. And we're like, no, what's that like he? He puts out these weird flyers and he's selling these these tapes is. A racist and he is calling himself a skinhead. Romantic violence was the name of Clark mortels one man operation that sold racist music the kind of music that Christian Peach leany would listen to on the school bus five years later. Stood they weren't very good copy you'll he was buying. Records. By say screwdriver white power skinhead music from England and he was just recording cassettes. Off of the album itself and selling them through his post office box, and that's what romantic violence was. Eventually this Clark Martell materialized. Came to shows and parties with a small crew of skinheads to infect the scene with a new message. White power. They would show up all the time. We're just hanging out trying to have a good time. They show up and then. Things got real. Got A little rough. Shall we say? Motive is supported by better help a convenient and affordable online counselling service that can match you with a licensed therapist start communicating with your counselor in under forty eight hours via secure video phone chat or text more than one million people have taken charge of their mental health with the help of experienced better help counselors who specialize in issues like anxiety, depression and stress our listeners get ten percent off the first month at better H E L P, dot com slash motive podcast talk to a therapist online and get help. Writer Joe mcguiness and convicted killer Jeff McDonald's started out as friends it was. That was occurring and it was unmistakable I. But when Joe wrote a book about Jeff The friendship was over Jeffrey, MacDonald's the psychopath. He has no remorse. No conscience. Did you lie to Jeff to get the truth is what Joe Making this did morally indefensible I'm Mark Merlin, the Jinxing crime town and I've got new podcast morally indefensible coming apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Even before the Nazis showed up at the PUNK clubs David speers had confronted them. It was in the seventies years before the skinheads David was fifteen he heard that the American Nazi party, a bunch of older white guys who address in German Nazi uniforms plan to local march. To David. Those old guys were a joke we went around. We went to a local Deli and we asked the guy. What he does with the old bagels. So saved up for a week and gave us a hefty bag full and all my friends went to different supermarkets and stole all the Philadelphia cream cheese. We could and we made balls out of it and we went in through bagels and cream cheese at the Nazis. It's a prank that some might have found offensive to Jewish people, but to a teenage David, it was funny. Flash. Forward. To around. Nineteen eighty-four there was nothing funny about these new Nazis and their leader Clark Martell. At first, they went by the name of Clark's mail order music business, romantic violence, but then they adopted an acronym. Cash, for Chicago area skinheads. They were hanging around with Dussen, we'd heard stories about Clark, walking up to an interracial couple dancing and walking up to the white girl and slapping her and saying, what are you doing dancing with a new bigger? Things would escalate and they sought to cause trouble. We've eventually decided we'd have to put a stop to this at that point became more of a war with these guys. In this war, there were two sides, Clark in his Neo Nazi cash crew on one on the other everyone else they called themselves anti racist skinheads. And the two sides would fight anywhere they crossed paths. They fight in the clubs. Let's have some fun. Let's go to Medusa and kick their ass finally came to that. They'd fight an alleys by the labs. We would do stuff like get you know smallest one of US little Filipino guy to run up to the biggest ugliest one of them, spitting his face and run around the corner, and we'd be waiting in the alley and just stop on them. Next week. Let's do this against. We just did last week. They can't fall for it again. Well, they did. They. Even fight on the subway you're still. Going what sixty miles an hour and you're in a tunnel there's. Got Nowhere to go. So it's like you should bite you WANNA keep your teeth people moved back like Oh, shit because no one wanted to get hurt. Even, before the Nazis showed up, fights were a feature of the pumpkin skins scenes. Usually, they were about dumb stuff fueled by hormones egos, and pride. But when Clark and cash came around the fighting became important in a way it hadn't been before it was almost a daily occurrence. Got to the point where it not enjoyable anymore, it was almost like you just had to do it because we didn't want them to get a foothold anywhere. We kinda thought is our duty to defend the scene. And the fighting itself changed the scene favorite music venues started closing their doors to skins. Nazis anti-racists alike, lot of clubs didn't want to deal with it. A lot of places didn't WANNA. Let us hang out anymore because of it definitely changed the tone and the feeling for sure. When I hear stories from skins of that time. Here's what blows my mind. They were so young in their teens. But here they were committing themselves to one side in a war of good versus evil. Anti Racist Against Fascist invaders it sounds big to me now and it must have felt even bigger in the mind of a teenager. But it wasn't just about good versus evil. David speers may have been the only one who saw the history that had led to this battle in the skinhead scene. This went beyond cash. See I never thought of it is just them. They were part of a larger white supremacists movement that was going on in the eighties. David. Wasn't just a young guy who fallen in love with the music in the look he was a political activist. David was a member of the John Brown Anti Klan Committee which taught that white supremacy comes from white people and so it has to be fought by white people to. There's a resurgence of backlash to all the games that have been made because of the political action of black people the civil rights movement. Later, more radical groups like the Black Panthers in a lot of gains made is not just the skinner's this is part of something much much bigger with a long history. These teenagers in Chicago may not have been aware of it but they're fights in clubs. Alleys were about whether skinheads would become new blood for the American White Supremacist Movement. The lines couldn't have been drawn any more clearly than they were on July night in Nineteen eighty-five, the night of the Wellington Avenue Church fight. Could I run off and get a quick beer. Oh Yeah. Sure. I'll just be a second sorry to keep you hanging here. Martin Bill Heimer remembers it well. So we're all sitting around and we were like all right We've got to do something about this. We've gotTA stop these people. We've got to do it in big mass numbers to show them that they're not only not welcomed. They'RE GONNA get hurt if they come here and they're not going to be able to recruit for their racist army or whatever stupid Crowley. Doing. So Martin and his friends decided to make a show of force in the eighties. PUNKS were forever organizing benefit concerts. They'd be in church basements and clubs. There were rock against racism shows concerts to raise money to treat people of color living with AIDS, and there was one coming up to rally people against nuclear weapons. The Nazis were bound to be there and we knew they were going to be the show because they're almost every show and I believe they probably threatened. We're GONNA, go to the show and beat up some bags and Pinkos. Articulate. Steps we all met up in my apartment which was tiny but somehow we add you know fifteen or twenty people jammed into that little room and we all just walked over there in unison and I remember walking down the street and we actually had people think joining the kind of March thing. It actually looks fairly professional now that I think about it and there's like ten people twenty thirty, the entire Chicago seen skins punks everybody banded together like say there were over one hundred people there one, hundred, fifty people there. There is a guy had a guitar case that he had chains and bats and brass knuckles. Clark in those guys were standing there and Clark a goes. You guys got a lot of people and old guy from the scene said, well, that's what happens when you fuck with a lot of people. They were outnumbered. We told them you're not welcome here. You don't support this. You don't like these bans. Why are you here just leave? And who we can stand here if we want to, we just told him, you know look you're not wanted just leave and we gave them you know an out. One of the cash guys Clark's right hand man was known for carrying a large gain in fights. He used it as a weapon. Dan Bonfield walked up to him. He struck me with it as swinging at me I, grabbed it and took it away from him and. Threw it up on the roof of the church. Dan grabbed the cane through it on a roof and he looked at him and said you own me in new Canaan man and Dan was kind of stunned by this and they just punched him At that point, the Malay just started people paired off and it just crazy. David speers looked over at a friend who had pinned one of the Nazis down and was slamming his head on the pavement taken by the ear and banging his head on the ground. I'm just saying we don't want you here screaming we fucking hate you in his ear. We hate you fucking Nazis in pounding his head into the concrete. And then the COP showed up because it was in the street and a lot of the good guys ran into the church try to hide from the police at that point. The fascists came in with the police and fingered certain people and I was one of them got locked in the in the squad car. This fight was in the summer of nineteen, eighty five still early in the history of cash. But it was a major moment for the skins who wanted to drive cash out of their seen arnold recall them being shows after that by being up and chasing them away from their. That showed that this can be done. But the truth was the lines in the sand weren't always clear. while. There were two distinct groups of skinheads, racists and anti-racists. There were also a lot of fence sitters people who switched sides depending on who their friends were or who they were dating, and some non-racist skins even flirted with Nazism and listened to white power bands. Nobody embodied how confusing this was more than a black skinhead named Sonny Sonny head this about him that you could draw yourself to a WANNA be around him Lon Harris better be prepared for neither shenanigans. 'cause that's that was sonny sunny were meet with the first black skin in Chicago Duane Thomas Remembers the first time he saw his friend sunny with a new tattoo on his forehead of a swastika. Rate here it's like on his vase and I was like. Sonny's just sunny I mean there is no explaining. None. Wow that's so sad. Yeah. And it was very confusing. So we just took it a shock about. I tried reaching sunny. He didn't call back. Sunny Swastika and the general jumping between sides wasn't just puzzling. It also injected mistrust into the scene. Before, if you dressed and looked a certain way, it was assumed your friend. But once cash came around. That wasn't true anymore. Duane Thomas. The. Ability to be able to walk into a group of skinheads never drink with them and not worry about getting knifed or shot face that. Changed. Drastically. You might walk up be hanging out with guys and then suddenly. Be like fuck just got walked into. The midst of a bunch of Manson's and skins coming in from other towns were checked out the one Harris. When people will come into the city we run a paper on the way from we make. Jagged off the. Catches and if they did, we beat the dog. David speers worked with other anti-fascists to build files on the Neo Nazis a lot like what Antifa does. Today people did Intel and we found out who were we took photographs. This is the closest to pre Internet dachshund as they call it today because we would get together in a group and sit around with these photos and I know who that is and we'd right on the back of them so that we had a log in a record of who all these people were. And a lot of ways. It made me more jaded. Less outgoing. Certainly less trustful of others. Sat. There is you know when? It went from being something that was fun. Basically. Put the cash. In, the span of only about three years cash had fundamentally changed the scene that so many punks and skins loved in Chicago. Some clubs had kicked them out. Concerts weren't necessarily safe places anymore. and. The family they'd formed had been torn apart. And the very thing that the anti racist skinheads were trying to stamp out had spread to other places. By the mid eighties crews, Lake cash were popping up in San Francisco New York Dallas Florida. PORTLAND. Alabama. Street brawls hadn't stopped the White Supremacist Movement from infecting skinheads, scenes all over the US. This punching. Nazis work. Sometimes. Former. Neo Nazi skinhead Christian Pizza leany. It feels good to punch Nazis I'm sure is it effective in countering extremism? Anybody in history. Of being punched by anti-racist changed their views of seen in most instances where that is actually pushed somebody deeper into what they're part of. So I, I would prefer to change the systems and the institutions that are creating this racism. Versus thinking that you can punch the Nazi us. Looking back there are lots of regrets. For one all the infighting. There were attempts to formalize anti-racist crews against the Nazis corky established. A group called shock skinheads of Chicago. While we agreed that the Nazis were the enemy we thought amongst ourselves corky says they'd get hung up over personality clashes and squabbled over petty stuff. You take one step forward maybe be two steps back you know like on my. On when it really comes down to a shock shift another streaking. Even. Worse. Some wonder if the anti-racists might have grown the number of Nazis. Dwayne remembers how he and his friends used to haze kids that they called fresh cuts. Those were skins new on the scene ones with freshly shaved heads that was like a thing back then like you came around. And cause problems we didn't like you. They'd beat your ads, take your bomber and your boots and senior home, and you've been fucking excommunicated deliver. Dwayne thanks he and his friends might have driven those fresh cuts to the other side to the Nazis. Why would I even WanNa go around these same people that treat me like shit and these other guys. Come around brother have a drink with us. You know here's an album you'd like to stop you can have. Like these shoes, take their shoes take them. You can have them. They welcomed those kids with open arms and these kids are disenfranchised that head An. Older brother to stick up former friends and be like, fuck you don't want within he's with us. The kids do we turned away then are the guys that are carrying a torch now unfortunately. And the biggest regret The very image that the words skinhead conjures up in people's minds today. Most of the skinheads in the eighties were on the same side, as Dwayne, Corky David Dan Martin, and so many others. They were fighting the Nazis. But now when you say skinheads. People think of Nazis. The crazy thing is cash was never all that big in Chicago all that damage came from only ten people or so. and. By nineteen eighty seven, the anti-racist did drive them out. Of the city limits at least that whole crew got up and move down to. Clark Martell moved his crew to a working class suburb south west of the city. He was never there successful until he moved his operation to Blue Island and got a lot bigger. It was in blue island that cash found Christian Peach leany. Then a young impressionable Italian American kid. The man who walked up to me at that moment was a guy by the name of Clark Martell. Any Chicago skinhead talked to about the nineteen eighty s we'll bring up Clark Martell. Without Him, none of this would have happened. He's like a mysterious Pied Piper who appears out of nowhere to lead young aimless teens down a path of eight. It's not just this guy is a prick. This guy is going to also be very bad for you because you're going to go to jail. He's GonNa talk you into doing things you might not even want to do. Was a pretty charismatic guy. He knew what to say he could fucking talk a burning manage drinking gasoline. It wasn't just some skinhead guy or punk guy trying to be shocking and saying racist crap he was definitely fascist and would have been anywhere. It wasn't that he was a skin it who became a white supremacist Clark. Martell. was part of the White Supremacist Movement his plan. Was To go into the punk rock scene and recruit people to become these Nazi skinheads. Next time on motive cash and Clark Martell Clark Brainwash you. Really smart and we were young and we were looking. I don't know for something maybe. Like. His Do. Motive is a production of WBZ CHICAGO. I'm Odette Yousaf the producer is calling McNulty. Our executive producer is Kevin Dawson our intern is Hannah boomer shine Joe Dassault mixed the show original music. By Stephen, Jackson and Jesse dukes special. Thanks to listeners whose financial support of WBZ made this podcast. Possible. Motive is supported by better help a convenient and affordable online counselling service that can match you with a licensed therapist start communicating with your counselor in under forty eight hours via secure video phone chat or text more than one million people of taking charge of their mental health with the help of experienced better help counselors who specialize in issues like. Depression and stress our listeners get ten percent off the first month at better H E L P dot com slash motive podcast talk to a therapist online and get help.

Chicago Nazis Clark David speers Chicago David Clark Martell Duane Thomas dwayne Dan Bonfield David Dan Martin Black Panthers Guy Clark skokie Medusa US Clark Martell Clark Whitey ATLANTA England