1 Episode results for "Darren Foxy"

State of Zion, Sleeper Suns, Clubhouses Ceiling, and Bradys Last Laugh With Rob Mahoney, Nathan Hubbard, and Seth Wickersham

The Bill Simmons Podcast

1:58:46 hr | 7 months ago

State of Zion, Sleeper Suns, Clubhouses Ceiling, and Bradys Last Laugh With Rob Mahoney, Nathan Hubbard, and Seth Wickersham

"Hey gino we blew out higher. Learning with van leith and rachel lindsay this month. Yeah they're doing three a week and there in the middle everything they're doing pop culture politics. They're talking about all the crazy bachelor stuff from this week. They're having special guest famous gas. Yeah go check it out. Subscribe now higher learning on spotify or wherever. You get your podcast. This episode of the bill. Simmons podcast is presented by chase freedom unlimited. You're always earning with chase. Freedom unlimited earn five percent cashback on travel purchased through chase three percent of drugstores three percent on dining including takeout which is basically most of my life at this point takeout. It's it's it's just what's been happening. I'm not gonna apologize either. I love takeout chase. Make more of what's yours. Learn more at chase. Freedom dot com slash the wringer restrictions and limitations apply offer subject to change cards issued by j. p. morgan chase bank. Na member fdic copyright two thousand twenty one j. p. morgan chase and company all rights reserved this episode of the bills. Seventh podcast is presented by quickbooks. Small business owners go all in on their passion. Sell the car your dreams for food truck. It's because you're hoping to make the best burger whatever your dream quickbooks suite of tools can help you get there into it. Quickbooks small businesses be more successful. Learn more at quickbooks dot com. We're also ready by the wringer dot com and the wringer podcast network. We launched two new podcast last couple of weeks. Sports cards nonsense. They'd gary v on this week and we launch black psalm. Book with daniel smith as well. Hey if you miss hearing me talk about the challenge. An mtv the challenge double agents. My favorite half hours spent every week is with david. Jacoby my old grantland. Espn colleague on the wringer dish podcast on wednesday nights. We breakdown in about twenty five. Twenty seven minutes. Everything that happened in that night's challenge it goes right up after the challenge finishes airing on mtv which is nine. Thirty e. t. six thirty p. T. you can hear recap immediately. I think it's the best challenge podcast of all time. I really do. I think it's head and shoulders above any other challenge. Podcast you ever ever listened to. We not only break it down but we have a lot of fun making jokes about basically everybody on the show. I highly recommend it. If you like the challenge check that out coming up rob mahoney from the wringer dot com is going to discuss the new orleans. Pelicans the phoenix suns and more importantly both signed williamson. Where are we as he heads to the fifty game mark. Then my friend nathan hubbard wherein talk about three things really fast clubhouse the new social app pebble beach coming up the golf tournament and then music trends. And what taylor swift is doing right now. And then finally saved the patriots. Talk for the tail. And seth wicker sham from espn wherein. Talk about everything that happened. Tom brady the last couple years. And who's to blame very fun conversation. This whole package is really good you know. Will we need right now. Some pearl jam rob odious here. He writes for the ringer dot com. He is. He's the miami heat that's up today. We're not talking about the miami. We're gonna talk about i. This year's deputy f team the new orleans pelicans. I don't know what baker this team you can catch them on any given night and it's a completely different experience than the last night. I don't know if the players make sense together. Actually i'm pretty sure they don't. I don't really know what the overall philosophy is. I don't know if they're trying to be a playoff team if they're trying to be rebuilding. I'm just constantly confused and there are some optimism because they want a couple of games around people here they go here. Zion and then they get killed last night by the bulls and have one hundred thousand breakdowns. And i guess my first question to you is the pelicans what the fuck you. How many exclamation points can we tack onto that. Wt fd think. But i was hoping you could answer this question. Because i think you're spot on in that it's so much depends your view of this team on when you catch them even just like what stage in the season. You caught them because for a minute. It looked like they were going to live up to their personnel and be a tough minded offensive team. Scrounging out offensive rebounds to get points and just kinda struggling on that in because they're spacing issues the script has completely flipped. And now this is all of a sudden very competent offense. I think park has really driven by brandon. Ingram is i ion williamson. They're making that part of it work but the defense. Jesus christ i mean it is. There is inconsistent defensively as really any team out there. Yeah i would say other than brooklyn. It's the team that's most likely to give up one hundred forty on any given night to any team. That knows what they're doing. I so if you actually look at their stats and you haven't been watching that much and you look at the stats and you look at williamson in ingram and all right. Those guys are having good years pretty efficient. And then you look at lonzo and you look at bledsoe. Lonzo shoot thirty seven percent from three so she and forty percent so going into the season like well. Their guards can't shoot. They're not going to be able to have enough space. Well their guards are actually shooting. Okay but then. When i watch everybody together. I don't have a five-man line-up that i liked like yesterday. They're playing Kyra lewis with He he got a little more run and he's really interesting. Rookies really fast. He's little darren foxy and gave them an energy that i was like. Well maybe this. Maybe i would like this version of the pelicans more. If fast you know now unleash sign a little bed. Go up and down a little bit more. But i still don't know who the other two teammates would be with cairo. Lewis design and branding. And i guess the fundamental question for me is do zion and brandon. Ingram makes sense together on a team. That's actually trying to win the title. I think they make sense on offense but the question was i on really broadly. As who are you going to put the five that's gonna make up for all. He doesn't do defensively right now. That's always been my issue with the idea of playing small and we are putting him at the five his rotations is. Aren't there really the pelicans as a team. If i were an opposing coach. I would say this is a team. We can beat him rotation every they are. Pass away from defensive breakdown every time out on the floor and keep moving the ball. You keep doing what you're supposed to do they will they will mess up in a whether it's undersized guy in the corner doesn't quite rotate over all the way. Jj radic or josh. Hart they try hard. They do what they can. But they're not equipped to be helped rotation defenders. If a guy like zion isn't going to be one so i mean i'm i'm kinda bullish on the anger rooms ion depot in general but i am really struggling to see how you put together those lineups. I can see how they kind of got into this conundrum where they clearly wanted to have some veterans early. Some veterans fell into their lap in terms of what was available and trying to get some pics and make their other moves but long term. It's a weird team to build with. And then you get lonzo into this conversation to and what they want to do with him. It's it's kind of messy. Yes so i look at it. Like how i look like the celtics i think are a good example of jalen tatum. We're fine. i don't mess that up for the next ten years. I feel like we can put pieces around those two guys and create whatever team we want with those two guys and i'm happy because the they complement each other perfectly their exact the two types of guys you would want in the league and where it's going and you can just fit in like if kemba walker somehow play better. Who knows if that'll happen. But the the point guard who can create his own offense. Do some pick and roll stuff. You get a rebounder couple shooters i know at that. Team is When elegant new orleans and you think like all right zion and ingram five years from now. Who do i want next to them. So it's like. Let's start at the five yard. Because i it's clear that they don't wanna play zion at five and i don't blame them. I think the the fantasy we had of disguised could be a draymond green type. Guy defensively like that fantasies gone through you zero sense that like literally zero f. So all right. Let's let's do thought exercise with who just who's at the five with put them with mitchell robinson. Okay what's put a shooter who can defend in the to spot right. Somebody who can look like lure will put luder at there in the to spot love and then and then we'll put like an older point guard. Who knows what the fuck is doing as the point. Maybe like mike conley four years ago now and that's our team. Is that him a title team. Because i feel like the answer is no. I still don't feel like you're going to be good enough defensively. Yeah i mean. Parts to struggle. And i wonder zion to know you mentioned you know. Lonzo are shooting well this year especially relative to what you would expect them to be but defense is still guard than the same way they still shrink down. They still wanna put five bodies in between the romans ion on if they can. What do you think that's going to mean for zion's development. Because i could kind of see it both ways where on the one hand you want him to get in space and have reps just making plays reading. Defense stringer with that. Looks like on the other hand getting by with minimal spaces kind of what you have to do in the playoffs. Ninety percent of the time so could this be in its own perverse twisted way. A good training scenario long-term four guys like ingram zion to figure out just how hard it can be to create in difficult situations. It seems like the book on. Zion is if he gets the ball on certain points on the court the teams panic and they just collapsed on him and i think one of the reasons like you look at the lonzo and the bledsoe being forty percent or close every shot they take completely wide open so you only have to factor that in. It's like all right there. Thirty seven percent on wide open threes. What does that look like if they had to be defended. There is a player in the bulls game and i was listening to closer than orleans. Crew did the moral guy the interrupt each other. It's like watching two uncles eh game. And they had one one play where they they just they had three guys on zion and the and the guy the guy was like they. They triangle data like he. He got excited about it. He'd never seen like three guys collapse on different times. But it's like that's the book on how to defense. I am and i wanna get into zion. A minute on How i i think is years gone but i just the fact that he's being defended like that is probably a good sign zion. I would think. I think so too. And i think lonzo is figuring that out in a different way in terms of his pick and roll was ion is really starting to click now and i think a lot of that came from figuring out he needed to get zion. The ball early you. It's really fun to hold onto the ball and threw rally design and watch him. Cram it through the rim. That's a good time for everybody but it's probably more productive if you give it to disa- giant guy who's gonna freak the defense out even fifteen eighteen feet from the room face any kind of momentum whatsoever so i think that shift has been pretty important for their offense getting zion and more positions where he is going downhill against the defense forcing them to make split-second instinctive decisions and some cases business decisions to want to put my body between this guy in the basket. It's it's not an easy one to make. I'm gonna say i rarely do this where i go. I go on the record. I'm going on the record with this. Okay and then this a few times in over the years. And i'm usually right long term. I don't think ingram's i honor together. I think at some point ingram gets traded for peace. And then there's a whole thing about we love the angra. It's just the fit of these guys together. Yeah offensively can work but does it make sense for it to work because to me. Ingram is like the perfect for rate. He's a stretch for you could. He's malleable. He can move around about really that good defensively but at least he's got some length And they'll just flip him into who is a more traditional. Tatum brown type of player would be my guess and i think that's how this plays out because ultimately i don't see it i i think there's there's too many ways to get burned. You could put you again door. You could have an awesome to way point guard and you could have a rim protector. And i still think. How're you stopping like. somebody like. Who's who's guarding him. If you have. Zion and brandon was saint mcgeer just always losing against a rant against tatum. You have to have a guy in your crunch time five. Who can guard those guys. And they're just never going to have that guy when it's so weird to watch this group to their either. You would have thought stan van gundy team if anything. They're going to be there with the second rotation third f- like that's what his teams have done. Historically it's just not there an ingram. Zion are the prime culprits of that. Our guys who are just parked on their guy in the corner. They're not going to budge to help anybody. This team right now for me. And i think the big red flag with them is. They don't do any of that stuff. That buys their teammates. Time on defense the little bumps the little holds the little half rotations. It's all just kind of every man for himself. A lot of times and that involves in some cases stephen adams running twenty five feet from the ram to try to get back to his man. It just it doesn't work it's funny with ingram is thickness because they signed to extension so they. They couldn't trade him this year. The most logical trade was angered and maybe they threw in a picker too but just like removing all the stuff about That they couldn't trade That it would have seemed abrupt all and you know whether harder would've wanted to go to new orleans just as a pure basketball trade just flipping those two dudes letting ingram have his own team in houston and then putting heart and wis ion and all the stuff that could come out of that. That was like the most fun basketball again could not have happened. 'cause ingram could betray it but i just really liked the idea of that and it it seems like ultimately if you're gonna unleashed said some sort of creator who's like a six four two six six type guy who can not that hard defense but that makes sense are my overthinking. It does make sense but a kind of makes me think brandon. Ingram is faded to be this guy who's constantly flipped to younger teams to be their next star of the future the center of their team. And i mean maybe that speaks to his fit and some of the complications. That come with it. If you're that kind of player yeah may maybe that he is yeah. He's eat my fear with them. As i do think he cares about the right stuff. That's close piece was interesting about him. Some of the quotes. And i think he's gotten better. I think he gives us sure But sometimes you could just be a good stats bad team guy right. A lot of the stats. He put up last share tham elated manner. The team sucked you know and the fit was on. I guess and it's time to talk. Zion the question for me. Where does this. What's the ceiling. Compared to what. I thought the ceiling was two years ago from watching it. I don't wanna. I think he's had some really good moments. He's played less than fifty games total on his whole career. His numbers are pretty crazy for you. Know he's basically twenty four and seven every game. He's almost shooting sixty percents Is the line seven times a game. I test wise. There's moment where if he's just has one person on his back he could spend toward the if he's on the left block. He's been toward the paint. Get whatever shoddy wants. He can spin the other way and get that little lefty one-handed jump hook. He's pretty devastating in transition. Still and yet. This is where i do the and yet i felt like he was more exclusive at duke. He just was he moved better. I there there's moments like deadball moments. This is why. I'm dying the same person because i. I never want to overreact. One way or another to stuff. I see on tv but their stuff impersonal or just seems like he's laboring like he's got a limp like he's carrying too much weight like he's not happy. The guy at duke was played with so much joy he really he was so competitive and so joyful and that was like the thing that jumped at him where he just seemed like this guy that just love basketball more than anything in the guy. I'm watching now. Seems like a guy who's on a professional basketball team who's a little overweight who's knees in one hundred percent. Maybe it's ninety five percent and doesn't seem to be playing with that same kind of joy that he had. What do you see. I mean i see the same difference in terms of just the pop of his athleticism. You know it's. I think it's okay to say that you know players get very offended when you say. Oh you took a step back athletically. You're not moving the same way you used to but realistically like look at this guy. He looks like a different player. The flow of his game is very different and it was always going to be that to some extent. You know moving against bigger stronger. Nba athletes there. Were going to be some compensation some trade offs with that stuff. I think his game is changing. And it's okay. I think if it's more of a below the rim bully ball type style like he still very explosive horizontally like he can still go to the basking still push people out of his way. It just changing the scope of what that player looks like and figuring out. How do we translate the way. He does move well to trying to get him to be something on defense that he hasn't yet so i i don't know how we reconcile all those things. But there's no question that as a draft prospect and has an nba player. Those are two totally different guys to me now. The version we have now can still be a superstar. I think he's still well on his way to that but But the complexion of what his game looks like his different and to be fair he still a one one. I haven't seen anybody like him since barkley. A million years ago He is still unstoppable In transition infants like a two on one three and two whatever he can bulldoze his way to the basket as well as anybody in the league. He's still seems like he's got a fast first step where he his quick twitch stuff is still good. Yeah it's it's not like but i to me. It looks like he's carrying too much weight on the obviously not the first one to say that but he just looks twenty pounds too heavy to me and you can really feel it on the in the in the air stuff. He jumped hired two years ago. They gets a fact. Go on youtube watch. Any duke highlight thing. He's just jumped higher. He was like blake griffin that first full lab city clipper season where blake griffin. Was you know flying over people zion's defying over people. He's kind of going through people more. I think that's been woods. Really surprise me because he's only twenty years old and that's what makes me wonder i don't i don't think he's like eighty percent healthy but as possible. He's like ninety three percent healthy ninety. Five percent. healthy. Woody what do you think just from like a health standpoint whereas he i mean i could definitely be part of it. There's all and there's always bumps and bruises. We know about little ailments. We don't know about nagging stuff we don't know about. I think that's part of it. I think with him still in the bigger picture since you're looking at him as a guy who just brakes matchups regardless of that you know even if he has a little slower even if this is kind of the speed is going to operate at you know if you're a team that has kind of a twitter stretch for type. How confident could you possibly be throwing that guy in front of zion to compete with and transition boxed out all the time and that's the long term future of this play here is all all of the things we take for granted with modern basketball zion. That stuff and so you know whatever the best version of pelicans looks like it's one that kind of works. In contrast to the way the game is moving that that beats it in the in the rock paper scissors of basketball. He can beat so much of this. The modern style. There's three and a half overpowering guys. In the league right now. Lebrun embiid and zion. And then my my hafez ben simmons on the right night if the game is really up and down all we got. We got to get jaanus in there to yana. Said forget about unisom. Sarjan us yet. There's four and a half. I forgot about this. Four and a half The simmons thing there certain nights where it just looks like he looks like lebron. You know where he looks young farmers like i'm getting the rim every time and and you're like wow. What is the do all the time. The next night you watch him. And he's one for six Yes so there's four guys in zion's one of the four and he's doing that. I feel like at his athletic but some of the stuff that he's doing is stuff. I haven't seen a basketball court in a the the back to the basket. There's been kind of a resurgence with back to the basket stuff this year because we kind of written it off right like the stuff embiid is doing. This year is late. Eighties ewing ish. Oh yeah i mean help helps win. And beat and yokich both are just demolishing people on a nightly basis yokich. I think that lebron will have some moments on the low post that kind of funny when we think ten years ago how we were so upset that he didn't do that stuff man and then the wild card to me is yada su I just wonder what every time he's on the low black or near the low brock and gets the ball the other tin completely panics. It would seem like maybe that's something you should do more often. You watch the end of the game yesterday. There down one the play they run as to get janas open twenty footer against the sons and he missed it. Did you think it was going in. I didn't think it was going in it. Forty seven points. I still don't think it was going it. I mean i thought chris middleton was looking real open and that right corner unfortunately so is is a tough tough outcome for them. But i you have to like the janas wants to take that shot. He wants to be part of his game so badly and they kind of need it whether it's those face up jumpers long twos whether it's the turnaround deaf in the post. They're going to need some of that eventually. Quick powell can stop just back for a second there. Eleven and thirteen. They've they've lost a lot of good teams. So if you're going to make the case this might actually be a platform. They've lost the utah twice. Phoenix lakers clippers. Miami india not My questions them we talked about zion and ingram that makes sense together second question. Why do they trade your holiday again. What was the purpose of that. I mean especially given where they ended up holiday would have been a nice player to have her. I i have to think some of it was in service of holiday to and trying to get him in a place where he could contend a little more easily could they have not been close to contending with zion. Ingram drew holiday. What is your holiday. I'm you'd better shooter than eric. Bledsoe is he changing the world of what they do if you swat those two guys out like what they got back for them knowing now. That jaanus resigned with the bucks. Because you have to take this. Eric butts so contract that i don't think they could you know he's been. He has been a disaster but ask something. Nobody's taking that contract at nineteen million year. When he's a below average starting point guard and then you get a bunch of picks that ultimately like who cares. Jaanus is on the bucks unless he gets abducted by a ufo. You're just getting a bunch of picks that are in the twenties. And i guess i. This goes back to what we talked about that. I don't understand the timetable with this team. What are they trying to do. They tried to just be frisky while also adding all these picks. Do they have a plan to compete like. How does the stephen adams think planet. Why is he on this team. He and why are they paying twenty nine million a year and then in an extension for eighteen million after when the price for centers came as six to nine million and they gave up a pick. He's the confusing part of it. I think just in terms of that timeline. That you're laying out i get wanting to be competitive with zion. I get wanting to put the right kinds of competitors around them but what are those competitors doing right now because i you know they they strike me as a team that for all you know. They have a lot of good veterans in this group. But they're missing the anchor players like for the negative like culture center. A guy who who makes lineups make sets and they they don't have those players. They have great individual talent. They can string together some really interesting stuff offensively and frankly they can be good for two or three quarters in a game. They just have one disastrous quarter in so many different games where they're given up forty points. You can't be doing that. You can't be digging yourself in that kind of whole they shared for adams. I hated it immediately. An just might have fought was like adams zion and ingram playing together in the last five minutes game. I don't see it. Just don't see it and why do you want atoms and they're clogging the paint for zaid spicer's what are want somebody who can't be twenty five feet from the basket. I thought that was really weird here. You know pupil. I well they have so many picks. Have you actually gone through all the pics. They have to it. I'm gonna read mt right now. They have their own pick in two thousand twenty one day. Have a second rounders from the cavs and the wizards which are pretty good. There's only time i'm gonna mentioned second rounders. Two thousand twenty two pelicans they have their own pick them the lakers first round pick congrats. That's going to be the twentieth. Pick two thousand twenty. Three they can swap picks with the lakers and they have a lottery protected. Nuggets i well davis resigned with the lakers. Lebron looks like he's gonna tom brady. S employs forty five. I'm pretty sure i'm not excited about either. Those picks two thousand and twenty four can swapped picks with the bucks cool. That'll be that other than that. Guarantee the bucks. Have a better record than them and the lakers. They have their first round pick which they can defer two thousand twenty five if they want so now. They're playing the long game with a pick. So let's say they defer it two hundred twenty five. Pelicans first bucks first lakers i. So i out of those. I would say maybe you get lucky with the lakers. Pick unless you honest gets abducted by an alien two thousand twenty six bucks pick swap again. Janas will be thirty two at that point. Not sure that's going to matter and then twenty seven pell's first bucks i it's not exactly a motherlode now. I mean there's no there's no one pick your waiting on. There's no light prime timber. Wolves pick in the in this package that they've collected. I think they were in a tough spot with that in terms of timing. And i think you know especially coming off of the bogdonovich to buckle and milwaukee what like the state of play at that given time in that off season and like how much do we wanna bet that jaanus is going to sign this extension or not things a reasonable thing to roll the dice on that especially when you know there was a there was definitely a market for drew. Who's a very attractive player. He can play with all kinds of backcourt partners. Did they could have driven things up and push that down the line if they wanted to. I just don't have a problem with with taking that kind of risk at that time. A lot of the league was asking the same questions about john that they were coming to the same kind of shrugging conclusion about whether he was going to be a long term peace in milwaukee future not at that it was a very good trade. I support it. I signed off on it when they did it. But now you look at it and it hasn't worked out. I don't think the way. Maybe they were hoping it was gonna work out the the broken season and a lot of ways things now working out quite the way they wanted. Well i mean. I guess the difference in that picking that trade in the davis trade is in the david got ingram They got a real guy in this new in this trade with milwaukee they. They didn't really get anybody you know. They got eric bledsoe. George show who then flipped for atoms and through one of those picks in there but they didn't really get like a staple and i. I don't know if michael porter jr. was available. And he certainly does it make sense team to have but they didn't even get anybody like that. I was looking. We'll put a bow on the pelicans here. So i'm looking at o'casey okay. Sees ten and fourteen. They just almost beat the lakers twice. They're like super duper frisky. They're kinda in the mix too to maybe make the playing game and let you know the which i'm sure as saint prestigious worst nightmare right. He's probably looking at this going. The one thing i didn't want to do is be in the seven to ten range. I thought we were going to be terrible. I made all these moves to try to be terrible. Were not if you're him. Do you have to think about trading s g endure it. Let's hold that thought. we're in. take a break. This episode is brought to you by verizon if you're a mobile game you've heard every excuse under the sun there hacking this game is good. She but the lamest one by far is blaming. Her losses on lack eliminate the excuses with razan five g the five g that changes the game now. The unprecedented performance five g ultrawide being the fastest five g in the world built with massive capacity ultra fast speeds in ultra-low lag for console level gaming on the go so no more network. Shame when you get knocked off the leaderboard verizon. Five g is here which means the time has come to stop blaming the legs. Stop making excuses. Start becoming the best gamers in the game. This is the five g that changes the game. This is five g bill right only from verizon five g ultrawide available only in parts of select cities global claim based on open signal independent analysis. All right so. I asked you for the break. If you're okay see. Have you bottomed out enough. Do you have to do something about the two guys that are single hanley preventing you from bottoming out the way you wanted to. As a endured as they're gonna have to paint a couple years as j single won them five games. Dort is somebody that i think would have real value on the market If they wanted to spin it because he's on a cheap contract he's d exact two three and d guy team wants. Is there a match with the pelicans. I'm making this. Up i have no insight info elkins have all these picks could they mother load Make the huge offer for s g. Dort just try to make that their team. S she dort. Ingram zion and try to be good right away but if you're the thunder and your houses made of draft picks are you really going to the store to buy more draft picks at that point they add. I would argue the way. why not. just keep going. You're basically you're taking more chances. At the roulette wheel right. Yeah but with picks that we just laid out. Aren't optimal i if i'm the thunder. I'm very comfortable with where we are. I think they're they're one of those teams. It's a place where seems like almost no matter what kind of roster they put together it turns out competent. It turns out to have a nice mix of players and talent and they still have some moves down the line. You and george hill. It's healthy and they could. They can move him on potentially or a horror down the line. Maybe there's there's some interest in him. I'm i'm pretty if i'm the thunder. I'm feeling pretty good about where we are. So you don't think the celtics can get as she her romeo langford and a couple of picks. Now we're getting into the long game here. Okay sees draft pick barrages so much oppressive. How sure just this year. Houston swapped top top-four protected miami first denver firs golden state top twenty protected. Two thousand twenty two. Okay see i. They get to keep it. If it's top fifteen clippers. I and then they had the sons pick that's protected gets later gets later. And then it's finally unprotected. Twenty five two thousand twenty three they can swap with the clips. Miami i which is latter protected three years unprotected. Twenty six nuggets first ladder texted for three years Next year okay. See first clips. I then there's a houston possibility top for protected And then though sons miami picked by trickle down and they're twenty twenty-five get the best of o'casey clips in houston. They get the best of those three. There's a possible philly Top six protected that year one through four and twenty six one thousand four hundred ninety seven and then all those other ones. I mentioned twenty six. They have o'casey first clips. I that is like ten. If i give presi. I'm insulted when they're comparing new orleans and griffin's pick microcode fuck out here. I have like a ferrari. They have you know a prius. Well i mean this is only just like a jim in what is now. A pile of gem draft picks but the picks got attached to the west route. Chris paul trade going from houston to oklahoma city unbelievable. I have a feeling we're gonna be talking about those for a long time. I actually think that whisper trade now looks worse than the cagey pierced. read Because when brooklyn made that trade and the peace everybody is missing is brooklyn. Every year was gonna spend the most money in the leak. It was inconceivable that they were ever going to be bad within a year. The programs like we're not gonna spend money anymore. Cut costs and the celtics stumble into this unbelievable draft. Pick barrage that you know if program was just spending a hundred and eighty million dollars a year and his roster. There's no way that picture in the lottery and were remember that clue differently. The westbrook thing prestige had to know from visit from a physical kind of where where westbrook's brought body was potentially two three years down the line. He had been so delighted that he got all that stuff for him. Well do you feel like that. Trade was about westbrook or was it about keeping harden happy for houston and potential. You know if if that if you're if you're the rockets and you're sensing things are at a certain precipice. Are you making that trade. Basically just to try to take your your gasp. Keeping your franchise guy. I think that was the for tita and his son saying we've got to keep james happy. I i've known daryl longtime we've never talked about that whisper traits. I just wanna to say that. We've never had like a real talk since he left about. Hey with gap. That was portrayed. That trade goes against every conversation. I've ever had with him about basketball. He never he never wanted to trade future. Picks like that and just stay. Westbrook's game was just not a game that he was would have been enchanted with in any other conversation ever had. So yeah. you're right. It was in the right place right time twice. You had this crazy houston thing. And then he had this paul george situation that had like a twelve hour window right where either move it or not so you think you think they keep everybody and they don't try to buy them out. Okay see keep everybody on you. Know they certainly could make some moves to to shift around some veterans shit ransom pieces but in terms of the core guys turns like the s g as of that roster. I don't see any been huge move like that. I feel like door tsa coast guy. He's dort is the guy who you'd want the fight once we get to the final four of a playoffs With talking about the suns quickly. We both really loved the sons. You tell me what you love about the sense. I love that there at the sweet spot in terms of a team that has its shit together but also has all these young guys doing new and exciting things you know. You have chris. Paul directing traffic. But you have mikhail bridges being adventurous on drives early the first time in his nba career and especially with how underwhelming their starting lineup had been in. You know to start this season by the numbers like they just hadn't been performing the way you would expect. They feel like sleeping giant sound strong like what slightly smaller than a giant. You know some of sleeping colossus like this is a team that if it made a couple of either a roster mover. now we've seen. They've shuffled their starting lineup. Frank kaminsky fresh off the waiver wire at the start of season is now a starter or johnson place. Crunch time for them subtypes. He's he's been huge a- as they've made those kinds of moves in there getting the rotation sh you know to shake out a little bit. This is like a really good team. Totally agree i said if you a few weeks ago talked about them. Unapplied now is saying one thing that jumped out and it was early. Don't want overreact. But the the thing that jumped out to me was that they had a specific pace to them That was unique to them You could see it in all the pace and though the shots per one hundred possessions although stats and in the last five minutes they just seem like have an advantage. And you could see it again. Last with milwaukee. There are really good last five minutes of the fourth quarter team. I think the revelation for me has been cam johnson bridges. I think people felt really highly of when he came out of the draft. And when i know when philly traded him the philly fans were bombed because there was like. That's the perfect three d. athlete that everybody's looking for these days. I'm not surprised that he's good. The johnson thing that terrible pick Last year he just seemed like a gunner this year. He's there's an all around to his game right. Sometimes grab a rebound. And he'll just go. He'll run the fast break himself and have a three and two. He's athletic. I think he's good at him and bridges are both pretty good at switching on d like was not the not the book on cam johnson. Coming out of college that this was going to be a guy who could defend people and he's clutch both of those guys at the end of these games. They'll have wide open shots. Everyone gravitate chris. Powerbroker in those guys will be open. They'll actually make the shots. i think. They're quenched time. Five is really good in addition to that crowder's not in it like it's. It's definitely it's bridges. It's cam johnson. It's chris paul aiden booker and those five guys play really well together which goes back to what we're talking about the pelicans where it's like these five guys. What's your lineup. Whose plays well together. D- opposite is dishonest. They have five guys that play really well together. They're one of those teams who especially with young teams. I try to think about like what gives his team stability and what gives them upside. And i shouted to monty williams for this. Because i think he's part of the stability of that team he gives them pretty set structure. They play pretty conservative on defense. Chris paul certainly a part of that getting guys in the right places and then they have booker and aiden and bridges and johnson. Who are these upside swings. And chris paul and crunch time one of the best upside swings. We have you know. There's just a good blend here. And and the cam. Johnson piece of that. I really like and i think he's probably the closest thing they have to an answer at the four long-term whether it's starting or finishing like they're doing a thing right now where frank kaminsky starting based on matchups you know if they have more of a traditional four type kaminsky will be in there but i think cam johnson is that guy ultimately I just don't think there's enough match ups that are really gonna punish him like that dynamic. You described in terms of being a link year longer athlete. Who can get them into some better spaces yen if you talked about. Are they a move away from maki making the west finals. You know utah which we can talk about another time every year. There's the team that looks awesome for the first two thirds of the season. It's usually a team. That has a real history plan together. and just comes out of the gate. They look awesome. And then at some point we start billy all they could win the title and then the user they peak. First two thirds. I don't know if that's going to happen. The entire not but they would be the leading candidate for that. Lakers pencil moment quips. The way co is playing. I think have to be taken seriously. Still as the number two. But i think after that i think the sons are in the four spot in the question for me is how do they leapfrog utah in the clippers. Because you don't want to be in the forest spot in half to play the lakers and round to you need to get to three right I don't see a path for them. Now unless they make a trade in the bummer had they keep saying this but had they drafted halliburton. I feel like that that would have been enough a lot of teams singing that tune. These days oh my god well. It's not like we all in fucking no. He was going to be good. I mean jesus it six months to study the draft but other than that the kamensky spot would be the spot. You'd have to upgrade right. Yeah yeah i think that. That's the easy one to dial up in terms of need how they get. There is a different question. I think one of the good things about them as with those other four guys you could go with a lot of different types of players. Deandre eight his flexible enough as a big that. You could pair him with all kinds of different guys and he's interesting counterpoint. Zion as you know eight and came into the nba with huge red flags about his efforts and has really made himself into a pretty competent team. Defender a guy who's reliable on that side of the ball. That's the leap that diane needs to make. Its as as we do all these point counterpoint. With the with the sons in pelicans it is worth noting. These two teams played each other like a week ago and the pelicans worked over the sun's right in one of their good night. So there's a little more variants with new orleans. But i i like the stability of where phoenix's yeah the eight and stuff started last year when he came back from the suspension. Because i wasn't sure if he was a bus. But i wasn't a fan and you could see something different after this suspension whereas oh this this guy actually make sense with how we play basketball now. I like watching them jump. I really like i there. Six guys in this sense team that i really enjoy watching and i think for him. He's you know his averaging twelve and a half rebounds gave this year. He's i think has pretty good hands. I think he plays hard at the he gives. A shit is tough You know he's i think he. He's not luca dodge. But i don't think we'll be talking about how they took eight and i like the the way we talk about saint louis or something like that. He's a good player The the x factor is arch who. I've always liked. I don't know if he makes sense in this current mba. He's only played seven games. He'll be back at some point What is he wig. If you put him in that kaminsky thing with what we thought such was a couple years ago. Maybe you don't need to make a trade. Yeah i think if he could be that player. But i think the ship has kind of sales. I mean if anything he he and kaminsky both work with that dynamite second unit. They've had and really. I think we probably need to give the sons more credit for bargain hunting for really pulling up guys out of the scrap. He'd whether that's campaign whether that's dario saric after he was left for dead like they've really put together one of best benches in the nba without a lot of resources to do it. And i'm sorry to me whether it's kaminsky your sarge. There's a playmaking big that kind of spot off the bench. That i think makes a lot of sense but i don't know as a starter and i was. I was dario apologised for a long time but even even i can't quite get there in terms of him being a finishing piece for them. Yeah he definitely got a lot of fumes from the process. People just wanted those process guys to be really good. And i the thing i liked about him as i did feel like he in the last five minutes like was not afraid of the moment would make a couple of shots and things like that. I just for the team that they have. I'm not sure he's going to be there and then crowder's the other one who's plan twenty seven game but i think in the playoffs as a guy you're going to need so i guess that thing for me would be the kaminsky searched by that's real easy spot to upgrade as you get closer to the trade deadline there's going to be those dudes are available. Those patrick patterson but a little bit better types but then the other thing would be campaign. Is that our third guard in the playoffs. He wasn't the bubble at least league. Mvp of the bubble campaign basically. Yeah all right. We both like the sun. So they're fifteen and nine right now. They probably need some help. From an injury standpoint with one of the two teams ahead of them it seems like utah at least regular season. Wise is going to be there. They're they're they're excellent. I mean i'm sold on them as a contender to be honest with you. So you are. You're buying. I mean to the extent that anyone is really capable of competing with the lakers. Right now like the matchup stuff with the braun and ad is always going to be tough for everyone out there but every other box they check so if you're making the case for it conley's just way better this year. Yup and the jordan clarkson thing is kind of out of nowhere where he check the guy who's feast or famine but now he's like a pretty consistent he check guy. He's like a reformed heat check. He went to some kind of camp for they. They got rid of his heat check brainwashing and now he's like playing in the flow of a of a real nba offense. I think i think it really works for him. last thing before we go you wrote about miami and you cautioned everybody to give up on miami right now. They're ten fourteen there in the eleven spot. We know they're going to be in the playoffs Be at ten and fourteen with a seventy two game season and you have one more. Jimmy butler Sprain them or you know one of those things where they lose another ten games. then i'll sudden it starts to get Get a little uptight but you feel like this. Is their team. The rest of the way or you think they would tinker with it. I feel like they pre- they feel pretty good about what they have in parks. They haven't seen it in total. We haven't seen avery bradley as a part of this team yet. Really some of these other components that they have been able to work in because of injuries and covert absences. And all that. But you're spot on about jimmy butler like if he misses any significant time. They're in bad way. We've we've seen that and some of that surprising in terms of you would think abam. A bio driven offense with a bunch of shooting could work different have keyed in on the shooter. So hard they'd taken away so much of that stuff and even even though bam is shooting mid-range jumpers now. He's looking great scoring at the best rate in his career. Those lineups have been a real problem. But i think the reassuring point is when butler is on the floor. They win. they win those minutes. They win games when butler and bam around the floor together even better like all all those kind of big picture signs are still there. It's just turns out you need your all. Nba players to be good. How much of effect do you think the awful uniform hat on their season has got to be at least twenty percent right. Those are the worst uniforms anyone's come up. But there's been some really bad uniform this year at phoenix's last night were awful too. I don't know what we're doing with. Which miami wants. Do you not like the pink and blue combo. Yeah those even like my family like they had last letter to nets can't remember. My wife was blocked by the tv. And she's like what what is that. Why are they doing. That appears like angry. Why because they think people will buy those. What is that. It's a little to take a good idea. And make it airbrushed for me in terms of that particular. Look but i mean the rest of the vice stuff has been so clean. I can't blame them for for trying to push it one step further where like I guess we're at the one third mark baby low pass. If you had to pick your east finals right now. What would be. I think bucks sixers i wanna in the nets certainly on the right nights. They're totally overwhelming. But i think embiid is getting to the sixers to that point where they have to be taken really seriously i g. I trust their defense. Pretty much you know if you're looking at who has the strongest offense or defense in the east like what can you really hang your hat on. What can you build around. I trust phillies defense about as much as anything out there. I'm on the same way to be the lakers. Game was the moment for me cute. They they went toe to toe with those dudes. They had just as much size just as much power and just as much of an ability to score than the game said that that one and the simmons ability to guard lebron I thought was really eye opening. He didn't stop him. But we've seen Two guys kinda go toe to toe with lebron at three. Actually 'cause ludar thought door it has to be in this conversation. This stunning went to is patrick. Lives who i think is a gem. I really liked this draft. I've talked about in previous podcasts. I'm i'm pro. Two thousand twenty eighth. I like these guys. I think patrick williams is really good. Will the bulls are going full high degree of difficulty every night. For patrick williams. He's guarding some of the deaths. Matchups out there. And i think that i'm a little. I'm kinda wait and see on his offense in terms of how that's going to shake out whether he's really going to be a great shock creator in time but defensively he's up to those challenges which is exactly what you would want a player as young as him to be. Yeah kinda like watching the bulls. It's a it's a team. They're like the belkin. They're probably the eastern conference. Pelicans they don't totally make sense. But there's enough going on like it so you and you have. La verse la in the west. If you had to bet on iran our would you utah. I think the the default is still l a verse. la but utah. I think is probably closer than a lot of people. Think to to crack in the door. The x factor with this stuff would be if we have fans for may june. Like if. utah's a two seed but they actually have home games in utah with fans true. That's a real thing you know. Whereas like the clippers who decided a roll over their money for the season ticket holders next year without giving any input or bonuses or anything at. Don't worry we're not bitter about that But i'll be really curious to see like the atmosphere of these teams in these half filled. Arenas where like utah could have a real advantage at a clippers. Home game against the lakers. It'll be mostly lakers fans and a half full arena. That'll be like the weirdest vibe ever. So i guess we'll say Rob mahoney pleasures always check out his piece on the miami heat which you can read on the wringer dot com. Thanks for coming up face bill. This time last year meeting up with friends for a beer was pretty complicated. We used to have to worry about where we'd go to where who invite and now in a socially distant world they're join a miller lite with your favorite people may look a little different and it may be a little more complicated but staying connected is just as important you know. In the last time i enjoyed millerton was round one of the. Nfl playoffs went to grab a beer. Started moving stuff around. The in the fridge stumbled upon a nice cold bottle of miller lite that was next night next to a couple of friends who was great perfect beer to the nfl playoffs miller. Like great taste. Only ninety six calories three point two carbs. However you and your friends are enjoy miller time you can add the original light beer delivered by going to miller lite dot com forward slash b and find that delivery options near you celebrate responsibly. Miller brewing company milwaukee wisconsin ninety six calories and three point two carbs per twelve ounces. All right my friend. Nathan hubbard is here. You can hear him on. Fairway rohan with joe house. Pretty frequently are golf podcast. There's big offseason heating up. We're talking about this one second at three topics for you. We're gonna rip through them. First of all clubhouse social media app used to work for twitter it It's starting to get some momentum. I would say the last four or five weeks. There was an elon. Musk conversation that became a big deal. They're trying to do audio podcasts. On demand crossed with like those weird panels that they have at tech summit and mba. All star weekend. You just kind of jump around. You go to different rooms. Is this going to work what he like about it. Well yeah it's basically live unedited podcasting with social layer and you can invite your followers than anyone can join. Look i mean twitter's already copying it. They're already testing out. A thing called spaces you can. You can see it. Occasionally popping up in your feed zuck at facebook. True to form showed up last friday night and they are about to release a copy of it And you know that. The his kahlons the head of product at twitter and he was the co founder a periscope and if you remember how periscope came to be they saw what mere cat was doing and live video streaming and they cloned it and then twitter bought it. So cave-ins pretty familiar with the move of copying it. I think the question is whether this is a standalone product and a company. Or if it's just a feature of larger product and there's this bifurcation of conversation that's happening you talked about elon. Musk like talking to the robin hood. Guy was fascinating but then there's also a bunch of like scammy fraud. Ish self-help life coaching shit. And those rooms feel like a nexium conference at a holiday in schenectady new york or something. So i i think i think live audio is easier to do than than video. It allows for more spontaneity. People are kind of afraid to go live on video but this whole thing does feel kinda like the last gasp but the tech hoy of the two thousand ten. They're trying to show that they are still cool enough and they can create enough fomo to drag one more social network into unicorn status and i. I'm just not sure how it's going to go here. Especially because there's so much scam and potential for abuse in these rooms coupled with just a full on frontal attack from twitter and facebook. Well you would think that pay content version of this would be where it ends up right where you have ilan mosque and he's like for five dollars. You can hear my conversation was so and so and it becomes way more exclusive a little like what we always talked about with twitter and up doing that where it has now. Especially as more and more people join. It's just gonna be this. Massive people babbling in different rooms and it the blowhard potential off the chart. I kinda go there. And i i'm going there and i'm just. Hey checking out over. Check it out like i'm annoyed by all the rooms. Look at these two. And of course i've seen you in a couple of them because you've never heard that a chance to hop in a room and and shoot the shit with five people but ultimately how do they make money with this house it essential. How is live audio. That you can't just jump in and out of you have actually at the listen to digest and then they wanna own the audio The it seems like whatever. Whatever works long-term is going to be looked different than what this looks like it starts. It starts to smell a lot like podcasting But we'll see i mean. I think the bigger really interesting picture here is the the you know the elites in silicon valley trying to pull one more company across the line while in parallel trying to go around some of the press that they've been frustrated by in terms of the coverage that they individually and the companies that they've invested in and created created a has been getting and so a lot of the people in these rooms are trying to weave a narrative about technology directly to individuals without press. I mean there's a lot of press that's been blocked from getting onto clubhouse so we'll see where this goes. It would not surprise me if between keivonnis twitter and suck at at facebook if they just eat this thing alive one thing that i thought if they had to do this over again i actually think they should have made it more exclusive. It should have almost been like a soho house kinda motto. Were they invite you. You've been you've been deemed Either famous enough or interesting enough for whatever to join and nobody else can get in and build up demand. Because i think what's going to happen is it's gonna get overrun but there's a world where you know like those those rich guy conferences. They have like what's that won. The allan allan company one oko yet conference sure. yet they br- they have all the billionaires and then they invite like some randoms and they also valley. Yeah it they have a whole do the whole panel thing and you just hop on different panels and people act like blow hearts that motto i. I wonder if that would work as a social media app and then people could pay to witness a certain thing without actually belonging to the app. Civic sense yeah. It's it's a subscription model for content. And it's kind of. It's kind of what a lot of conferences like patacas graves. Web summit did a great job this year of taking what is basically the biggest tech conference in the world. Online people paid for that stuff. I'm just not sure that as a standalone app the spontaneity of it is what makes it fun. These feel like you are a fly on the wall for these dinner party conversations. They're not edited. There's not a lot of discretion. I think as soon as you start to to inject some formality into it people are going to start to clam up and they're probably more likely to revert to the networks that they know where they have more control over their messages across instagram and twitter in particular right. Now it's a place for people who are trying to network and do their whole thing and be a little blow hardy and a place for people like us who had two glasses of wine in relag. Hey wanna go and clubhouse and argue about fleetwood back in third room one of us says something dumb and then we regretted two hours later. Yeah it's the beauty of a network in its early days as there's there's a bunch of cool shit but then there's also a bunch of like scammers and people taking advantage of other people. There's just the last thing we need is another platform to spread bullshit and misinformation. And so i think it's going to be really highly incumbent on the clubhouse product folks to think about how they're going to manage abuse and misinformation. It's a super hard problem. It's one that twitter. You know an instagram or having to deal with on a daily basis now I don't know that club houses figured out how to you. Edit and fact check Within a within a live audio environment. Well i'm rooting for it. I i think the more the merrier. It's a good thing. I think it's got some flaws but You and i are just going to have to go on. And what are the dumbest we could have. I mean fluid topic is dumb. Room fleetwood mac. The fleetwood back rubers urban. It's an hour long conversation about fluid back. Well let's do it with this weekend. What will start both. Start with like fifteen hundred people in there and by the end. It'll just be you and me and maybe house drunk you me and stevie nicks niece three of us talking about food. I'm dan i'm ready for it Speaking of house. Pga tour headed to pebble beach. One of the best tv stops. From a tv telecast standpoint your brother macabre aka homophobes he is eighty to one and fan though right now is to win. Pebble beach says same high or low. That seems that those seem like the lowest odds. He's ever had to win a golf tournament and the reason first of all. He's two under an tied for twentieth right now but the reason is there's nobody playing this week everybody dropped out. This is literally the lowest strength of field event that pebble beach has ever had. And it's because a bunch of the guys played phoenix last week. Half of the big names when over to saudi arabia for just a money grab event that dj one Nobody paid attention. Nobody cared and then all those guys thought they were gonna come back and play pebble. The pebble really. Now's a warm-up ford genesis here riviera in los angeles next week but with the whole pro-am cancelled and the weather just looks awful. It's gonna rain three of the four days of the tournament. A bunch of the big guys bailed and so the the story this week is ken. Jordan speeds continue the magic from last week. And i got news for you bill. He's three under three six It looks good right now. We're taping this. It is eleven. Forty five p. t. speed. He looked he had the magic from last week except for when he had two balls in the water and the back nine when he was trying to win the tournament other than that it was magical it was classic jordan the last day. Let's be honest. there is also good news though in that is that brooks kept. Yes vall involuntarily winning that golf tournament last weekend because everybody around him the door or you know or just fell back means the patrick reed no longer has a guaranteed spot on the american ryder cup team. Is there a chance that he gets left off this year. Just for team. Chemistry like a thomas style. Exactly he's going to get completely frozen out. Nobody likes him. His wife's burner twitter account gut outed last week and she just shit talks justin thomas and a bunch of the other players. There's a real chance that this guy is going to be so toxic in the locker room that you can have him around. I mean the european players right now are so close. They all love each other. They do a bunch of stuff together. The on paper. They're nowhere near as talented as the us team but man. If jordan spieth is gonna make a little run here and being the tournament. There's all kinds of drama between him. And patrick reed now with the with the burner account and all the slacking that a bunch of the other players have taken you. May you may have to drop him off. The problem is patrick reed. When his back is against the wall seems to always deliver so he may sneak his way into the automatic top six. I'm rooting against it. While our guy bricks. I think he's definitely injured last year. We're dear bad in hundred percent healthy and he looked awesome on sunday especially when he realized he could steal the tournament and that guy and he was playing with the he just completed in believe program. I haven't seen honda like that since fast and furious was that six. The hunt died of that would By their favorite part was when the guy made the gang style reference announcer. But then i think they belatedly realized wait. People are gonna think that's racist we got for. Can you find the clip of when he did the gangnam style dance and then ten minutes later inexplicably. They're showing that clip. I think so. The guy could be covered the announcer who made the joke be like see. He did that in tournament previously. I enjoyed it was a really satisfying last night. Around between kapka speed falling apart. han And you know. I'm a brick sky. That's my guy. Usually that tournament is the perfect lead into the super bowl. Because it's got two hundred fifty plus thousand people. They're the most attended. Us sporting event and certainly a golfman. So in it's crazy this year there was almost nobody there. But it kinda let the field and the course itself shine through. There's a great par-five that comes up fifteen. Then you've got sixteen mar three in the stadium a driveable par for which is where both zander and jordan just swallowed their drivers and put it in the water and then birdie-able eighteenth and if you play those well there's guys who come out of their four five under so It it's a. It's a great super bowl lead and there was no chance jordan was going to win that tournament. Like you knew he was gonna finish plus one or whatever because even after the round on saturday when he had ten birdies. Shot you know. That's the most breweries zebra hadn't a pj to around. He was talking about how. It's not really about the results and i it just. It's such an enduring moment. He is our biggest head case of a superstar and it's just great to have him back in the mix. It reminded me. A little. A jared goff on the rams when he can be good sometimes than other times. You know. it's about to fall apart and nobody can stop it. Mcvay would be on the sidelines with that. Look on his face. Like i can't believe this fucking guys are now. I mean if jared goff had three super bowl trophies it that way. But that's that's my point. The fact that it reminded me of jared goff a good sign for how it's turned out for speak last couple of years. They know. well listen. I never left jordan spieth island while everybody went away i built a hotel and a tiki bar. I've been waiting for everybody to come back. So i'm ready to profit as as the masses. Come back for jordan. He's still in his mid twenties right. Isn't it like twenty seven and twenty seven and and they're just just isn't anybody who lights up the outside world of golf way jordan spieth. I mean houses. Mother-in-law was texting him on saturday. Like oh my god. Jordan speeds like people just come out of the woodwork for this kid. There's something about you know. He's a humble guy. He's got a great family story And and the brittleness and fragility of his mind makes him just that that much. More endearing in. It's it's important to have him in the game lasting run a very good pace right now. We're going to keep this to twenty minute segment. So i'm very happy with our music trends. big news. Today taylor swift. That seems like she's releasing offer own albums that she's just re recording Which i don't pretty sure nobody's done that before right. Has anybody just re-recorded there. Even think prince thought of this. Some people have tried The connection that you can make is her manager is actually deaf leopards drummers brother the one armed drummer from that guy other manages taylor swift and it was def leppard who got in a fight with their label. Ten fifteen years ago and tried this and re recorded some songs. In taylor's case you know look the last five years of her career have been a you know as much about sort of using her platform to push back against the industry and also sort of shining a light forward for the evolution of artists into entrepreneur and in her case she believes she should own her master recordings and it's why she left her last label. You know well documented that scooter. Braun bought her masters she that started this process. She said fuck that. I'm not letting anybody else profit off my stuff. I'm going to record this scooter. Sold it to another private equity firm who wanted to work with taylor but she was so knee deep in in re recording this stuff and having so much fun that she didn't do it the coolest thing about today as she. She posted the track list. And and it's gonna come out april ninth The single comes out tonight Which is love story. The crossover hit really was asked. Crossover hit this album. I won album of the year But but the coolest thing is they're going to be two versions of fearless on spotify in two months and she's so smart which she's done in the song titles now is she's given the name of the song love story and in parentheses it says taylor's version so every fan who and we know that most people don't listen to albums all the way through. They searched for songs every fan. Who searches for a song is now going to see love story. And then love story in parentheses taylor's version and it's her way of making sure that that fan has to vote with their finger every time. Oh i'm gonna listen. I wanna support taylor. Because every time they spin that song taylor gets paid instead of scooter braun. Should i have done that with my podcast i left. Espn in two thousand. Fifteen is called the the bs report parentheses bills version. Yes especially how seats three in. Which i have a very important stake. It's three houses version. Yeah vomits version Yes it's it's a very interesting way for her to go reclaim horizon and it comes at this time for artists like the bruce springsteen super bowl jeep commercial was like the the waving of the flag between the the tension between american artists in corporate america. Like if bruce is willing to do a commercial you know it's over and a lot of this is because artists haven't gotten paid and over a year because i touring and and eighty to ninety percent of their income comes from the road. You now have all these artists who being forced to think about new ways to sir. Monetize their brand right and and i. It's an taylor is sort of leading the way here. This will be her fourth album in under a year. And so i think you know she put out. She put out Folklore she put out evermore. She put out a a live version of folklore. The long pond sessions and now releasing fearless. I think this historical album cycle. Where you and i would wait around for our favourite bands to tour in three years and put out a new album once every two three four years. That's been blown up and that's the tick tock if occasion of the music business. You've got to stay current. You've got to stay relevant. You have to keep releasing content and taylor showing everybody how to do that. Not just in terms of the time that she and the frequency with which she's releasing but also now demanding that you own your content going forward. I remember rattled In nineteen ninety. One the lead up to that. I think it had been three years since the previous album. That rat on hama achtung baby was rattle hamas eighty-eight act hung- baby was ninety one for for the people listening. I'm talking about you to a ban that nobody under thirty five no longer cares about but for everyone in college it was the biggest release of nineteen ninety one Thinking of selling twenty million albums but the lead up to that. Every you know what's next month it's coming. It was almost like a movie here and now and now it's the opposite thing they just dropped the album's overnight and you have no idea it's coming and boom there it is full that's it and and it was almost like youtube chinese democracy. They almost broke up and then they went back to their corners and stood in the you know discos of berlin and sort of gathered info to go. Now i mean on evermore taylor swift released it on a on a thursday night. She had finished a written a song on it a week earlier. So that's the sort of massive condensing of release cycles. I mean there's a girl. Olivia rodrigo who i am sure. Both daughters Oh my daughters. My daughter is really into what's at diverse license. Rival things love ango older guy. Yeah dumped it. Yeah oh yeah and she she. She posted that song to her instagram. Just playing piano last summer and there was some buzz about it and people were like you should record it. She it january eighth. I think and it was immediately. Spotify's most streamed song in a day and in a week and this girl seventeen years old so that whole cycle of artists development and build up an an are and you know guys You know cruising small clubs looking for the next bit of talent. Throw that out the window. It's now becoming hugely algorithm. Make you've got to be monitoring and real time what's happening on tiktok. What's happening on these other platforms to try to find those artists who were popping and then grabbed them and they can be stars in in a matter of days. It's pretty bizarre. And he gives. It's it's almost like the new version of american idol. 'cause my daughter who's oas plan at the piano and dune messing around different songs and stuff. What ten years ago. How age how. What would have been her dream to get found if she wanted to be a singer or been like i'd either go on american idol or like. I'm an abandoned college and somebody sees it something like that now. You could literally put something on instagram in overnight. You your whole life is different. And that's something that goes back to the late two thousands and initially my space and then it goes through to all the changes in this decade but now it feels more overnight than it ever has before i think well. And there's a couple manifestations of it like there's three million artist on spotify now which is a lot of junk right so the question is how do you separate the wheat from the chaff with spotify. Did amazingly well in the music industry in general has done this as i love the spotify pugs. By the way. I really appreciate them. You got the really nice. Thank you compared to compared to the video industry. Where like you have to have at least five maybe six apps and subscriptions now to see all the content that you want to see. It's all in one place in the music industry and so that's that's helping us that vision. That like chris anderson's wired article of a long time ago about about sort the the the long tail it is coming to fruition. The music business. We're gonna have fewer massive stars but a lot more nisha fixation of artists who have smaller but really sustainable and highly passionate audiences and fan bases as people have so much content to shift through. They're really going to be able to find the stuff that works specifically for them. But that's why you know. Taylor may be the last amazing huge rockstar In this capacity because there's just so much content out there and technologies doing such a good job of fingerprinting what you like and helping you discover and sift through three million artist to find the stuff that's just for you. When do concerts come back. Man i was with a at at a lot of them right. Yeah i i was with a very Popular artists this week. Who told me that he does not believe its happening. Until twenty twenty two that there will be a few things in twenty one but between the insurance and not wanting to be the first ones back that a lot of people are starting to push their stuff and and not into two thousand twenty two. Which is a little ironic. Because i think there is hope that you know you can have some outside concerts this summer. And i think we're going to see some of that but there is some real hesitation in the artist community. Jump out too fast and be the one who hosted a superspreader event. I think twenty twenty two a very heard about things that this summer going by the wayside. It's it's setting up coachella. Which i'm too old for you know deep down you're probably too old for two could shelby and the greatest music festival of the last herman years when when people can actually go to something again. What's going to be the moment that is like the holy shit we're out here. We're not afraid of pandemic and we're watching live music again. It'll be good shallower it'll be something that's In the fall of two if it takes that long better obese something right. There will be some sort of awesome music moment. Yeah i think we're gonna have a jailbreak here. We just even even before the pandemic right we. We were being drawn into these staring at a screen all day. These sort of solitary screen based interactions but were chemically wired to be together and ironically and we talked about golf. It's golf that started bringing people back. Football accelerated that through the super bowl and the championship games. And so. I think that we're going to have that moment. Late summer may be one of the big festivals in the us decides to hold itself in the fall With you know there is just this release and a jailbreak of people who like like they wanna like. They won a national title or something and flood the streets. And i think that will unlock the energy that that will bring the artists back out on the road. But i tell you there's are who haven't been paid in two years who are sitting there going you know. What am i going to do here. When can i go out. They just don't want to go out and do it in the wrong way and so i think that the the big companies in the industry and the artists are are working together on that. But we're gonna we're gonna. We're gonna see concerts soon but probably not as soon as we would hope for all right. You can hear nathan hubbard and i and our Clubhouse classroom this weekend break it down. Achtung baby thirty years later her subsequently tear by why stevie nicks eats at boa. Now we have to clubhouse. I've jokes about it. We're just gonna have to pop up there They think to see. We'll we'll hear you on a fairway rolling next week. Thanks no matter how you think you are in a game of basketball. Anything can happen. Upsets comebacks buzzer-beaters. There's no such thing is certainly not the final whistle blows. This has been weird. Mba season in that. It seems like everybody's either winning by twenty plus points or the game comes down to the final minute we've seen sacramento portland golden state toronto. All these teams that. It's always coming down to the wire indiana's another one. The celtics have had. I think three last ten seconds of the game go ahead shots This is one of those years. Weird stuff is happening left and right the game of basketball no stranger to surprisingly great outcomes the same can be said when it comes to shopping for insurance with state farm you get the personalized service of a local agent for a surprisingly great rate like a good neighbor state farm. Is there all right. Seth wicker shammas hair longtime. Espn raider specializing in big picture. Nfl pieces written a lot of patriots. Stuff over the years some stuff that roadmap a couple of times but it turned out you a right. Every step of the way Tom brady goes to tampa bay. Wins the super bowl in his first year and it has launched an existential crisis. In new england everybody has picked camps of this was ballot. Check fought. This was brady's fall. Why didn't he just stay here. as you watch this whole thing unfold what's your biggest takeaway man. So that's that's a big question and thinking about it all year obviously working on this book. It's better to be feared. It's about the new england patriots dynasty. And i think that what. Tom brady and bill belichick did this. Past year was kind of reflective of each other in the way that win a pair married couple who gets divorced who they ended up dating ends up being kind of reflective what their marriage less you had breed. He goes to tampa bay. Bruce arians does not care if he misses practice on wednesday thursday. He just wants him brady for sunday. You know brady's out on the boat the night before games or the day before games at night but you know he's sort of living this completely different lifestyle than the one that he was used to for twenty years and then you have gone through. This past year was really revealing in very subtle ways in ways that i think that he has shied away from the twenty years of running the patriots like i think it started in the spring when he said every decision. We made everything we did was with the idea of fitting in accommodating. Tom brady and the very incredibly blunt statement that he made especially. Because brady's people would probably disagree with that. Brady's people say the opposite that actually debate the moves despite the fact that and so he goes out and he says this with every decision we made was with the design of tom brady and then in the fall midseason. The patriots are struggling. He's asked by. Charlie weis on sirius. Xm you know what's going on with the team. And he says well you know we sold out. The past couple of years. Couldn't believe when bill belichick say something like that. In the middle of the season we sold out. So i thought though his point was basically they spent so much money and kind of with the way. The nfl works. You kind of push things ahead and at some point. The dinner bill is coming for the restaurant. Tab and this was the season exactly but i still thought that. Even the way the operates you know he's someone who just one thing. That don checking brady had in common was the steadfast belief in the next week and then the next play. I mean those guys are opportunists and for dole dollar check in the middle of the season to a bit that they sold out kinda give himself a little bit of leeway. He was accused of making excuses. He said he wasn't making excuses but he kind of was trying to tell the fan base. Look we've got to pay some bills like you said and this is going to be deer that we do it right and the way. The nfl works usually. It's a three year run a four year run and then you get solder by the cap per year. I think where where his argument falls apart. And i've gone back and forth. 'cause i really don't think brady was very good last year and i thought he had one foot out the door and I just think he was so frustrated. But now the frustrations make more sense when you see him on a team like the stampe team with so much talent. I think we're bella. Checks argument falls apart. Is if he had had some good drafts and he had been able to find talent the way that he found talent in the first part of the two thousands in the first part of the two thousand ten's then it's a different story and they just whiff. They whipped on draft picks. They they missed out on you know. High impact dudes over and over again and the in the nfl year. As good as your last year for drafts. Like a tampa devon wait you know. He was the fifth pick of the draft the year before. That's they took their huge dose tackle and they had guys the godwin pick. They had blue chippers that they found in the draft. And i think that's what bell check kinda stopped doing in the mid two thousand ten's and he's he's older now you know i think as he's about to hit seventy. I don't know if it's realistic to run everything. The way he did when he was in his fifties yeah. It's really amazing. Because you know. Bill has always been a i think a pretty good draft valuator over his years but he's always been exceptional in free agency. I mean that two thousand one team was really a team that he put together with spare parts discarded. People like mike. Vrabel larry izzo. But yeah i mean. They had to over-paid these veterans and they got slow fast because they were drafting as well. And i find it fascinating if we can just take a big picture. Look at bill's career right now. There was a moment in the middle of towards the end of the football. Life that the network did on him or they. They lost to the ravens in the play offs. He's driving to work the next day at his sober volvo. And this i think after the two thousand nine season and he says you know you're not gonna have to he's asked. How long is it going to keep doing this. And he says well you know. I'm not going to be marv levy out there. Coaching in my stub indies. You're not gonna have to worry about that. Well balanced is going to be sixty nine. in april. He has said for years privately that he did not want a turtle for a bad team to successor. I think he is way too much tried to do that. Yeah mean the patriots. Have they have a lot of missing pieces right now. And in subways. He's back where he was in two thousand one having to rebuild the roster and get lucky at the games most important fish. I think here's the difference though with with now and then back then. They still had blue chip guys from the parcels aaron from the late nineties right the head. Willie mcguinness day laura malloy. They had thai law. They'd the sixth pick in that draft heading into that season. Which was seymour you And a couple. Other impact is on both sides of the bother their offensive island's pretty good. They still had bledsoe now. We had no idea bledsoe's gonna to get hurt and brady was gonna come in but there are some pieces. I think what scares me about where they are. Now is the lack of pieces and it really comes down to the last four to five drafts. It's like do. Is there a future all pro on this team. And that's where it's kinda chilling and that those are the conversations i'm having with my pats friend fan friends on texts. Like the is this turnaround abo- because they have the most caps by their top three for cap space and i've talked in previous pods about. There's this chance this year. Because a kobe because the caps pretty static might even go backward a little bit where the teams that have the most cap space might have a real competitive advantage and which is basically what he's great at ray getting the six million dollar guy for five million getting the seven million dollar guy for six million and just basically being able to get eight nine good guys. I certain price my question is can he do that. Can he evaluate talent the same way that he was doing five ten years ago. Because we just haven't seen it lately you know everybody gets old. It happens yeah and you know he always had brady who. No one was ever going to earn more money than their that. This anecdote where you know. Durell rebus when he was on signing with patriots. I think he wanted something like sixteen million a year yet. Knowledge check through a backup. Brady mix fourteen. You're not more than him. So read has gotten lie and he signed a the you know. He was there for that one year and by radiant at this career yet braided discount. And you know he doesn't have that anymore and you know so you know. Is he able to. Is it enough to go to new england now in this uncertain situation. They have no answer at quarterback. I mean obviously cam newton. He was hurt last year. He played hard as he always does but he was missing three was painful to watch. I mean he was missing rose that he used a hidden his sleep and a year ago at this time or your ten months ago after brady left we all thought that was going to end up being the replacement guy that they had groomed and he had watched free for a year. I mean that guy didn't start a game even when when cam newton was out even when he was ineffective in the season was lost. They didn't even start him. And so i don't know whether he can pull out that you know the system that they've had and added for the past two decades. I don't know if it continues about. Tom in that same way that you just described the stadium thing is tough because you'd figure if they thought he was talented they would have tested them out at some point last year. Furlough four-game stretch. It's a little like what they had with. Ryan mallett right garoppolo. I think they knew was good. Yeah i think they thought jacoby perset was pretty good but now as they always kind of head and then they would lead people ago mallet but we never actually see him and same thing with with the stint piece that the cam. Newton thing was a bummer. Because does that game there was so much promise. I was all in after that game. And i just think physically. He broke down. The the the piece that there's some brady grunk bread crumbs and tampa especially from g- rock 'cause gronk i don't know if he has a self edit button about how great it was to be in tampa how much fun as having how though culture in new england you know you can only deal with that for so long. Wait what was eye opening to you about. Some of those comments from both guys absolutely. I think that goes back to what we were discussing. Where you know. Bruce arians was a perfect rebound for brady for rock way to once they got out of that marriage and towards season. Obviously the bucks were struggling. They hadn't quite found their rhythm in their identity on offense. There are a lot of reports about tension with brady and the play calling. But i was told that even as bad as things were going and you know you see. Brady's face after games on zoom calls how frustrated he was yet sick. It made him to be struggling on offense like bat no matter how bad it was. He didn't regret leaving new england for a minute. His worst birthday in tampa was better than his best. Eight new england the past couple years and except for probably winning the super bowl but you know he he was ready for something else and i thought that was really reviewing that You know gronk will definitely went up. Those bread comes brady is smoother about it. He he won't quite go there But it was just obvious to me how much those guys enjoyed playing in a new system in that weather in for that head coach compared to what they were used to. Well it seems like the fork in the road. Moment was on the alex. Guerrero stuff which you are on from the gecko and his growing kind of reach inside the patriots infrastructure and ballot. Check just deciding. He didn't like it and trying to basically make it like all right. If this is your guy. He's going to be over here. I don't i don't want him infiltrating my locker room. Almost a tj lavon talks about. You're gonna run my final and the challenge And that was the fork in the road by. I guess the question is he's gonna accommodate a superstar only so far right but you're competing in this league. Were basically every other team is gonna accommodate their superstar and give them special treatments. I mean it's way worse in the nba and the nba there. Don't you saw what happened with hard and in houston and you know what lebron was able to get away with miami in cleveland like when you have like a top seven guy you basically bend over backwards and give them everything you want. Let them secretly fi the private plane all that stuff. Now text the. He's never gonna do any of that. It's kind of basically. In retrospect brady stayed as long as he did right. Yeah you know with guerrero. It was it was. I think it was three things and guerrero was was one of them. You know obviously like their players who didn't know what to do because they felt torn between kind of aligning themselves with the brady system. And you know which was clearly trying to differentiate itself from the new england trainers yet you know who do you align with if julian edelman goes down and you're trying to win tom's trust you go to tb twelve or do stick with why the patriots and check wants you to do and then. I think you know brady's contracts. He wanted to play until he was forty five years old. The patriots wanted him to retire a patriot but they did not want him to retire at age. Forty five new england patriots. They just did not think that he could hold up and then finally brady. You know like a lotta those. Nba players and talk about accommodating superstars. He'd wanted more of a voice personnel and again calm and he told me once more coach and player but in reality he was still really much really player there and he told joe montana the super bowl year ago. You know they asked my opinion and then they just go do their own thing. And i think he wanted a head coach that would listen to him and it was a little bit more collaborative and bruce arians his life please. I'll halfway listening to you. Yeah you under even little stuff for a guy two thousand the sony. Michelle pack heading into that season. They're just they're just drafting these dudes. I'm sure he's getting no input at all but then the next year when they clearly need a receiver. And you'd figure like who's a better asset to like be there as you're testing out these receivers than brady 'cause i got an intel month after the draft when took kill harry where brady spent two days of them and i asked him buddy who was kinda connected to like. What do you think is brady does is going to help this year. He's probably a year away. I was like wow his circuit he's not gonna and it was right and brady could figure that out within twenty four hours. It's it's weird that they never involved that in general you know. It's hard to argue a six super bowls nine super bowl trips. So i say this is the all time nitpick but w- the weirdest thing to watch over the course of that. Twenty years was how resistant they were to just draft dudes who succeed with brady. The types of guys like the one time they really did it was the gronk hernandez draft but the troy brown deer branch types were always the guys he clicked with and yet over and over again bell. Check with take these like speedsters that you know where it's say. Even look at the the team. This year that tampa had woo. Who is he throwing in the super bowl. It was like it was g- rock on big plays. It was antonio brown on that one big when they when they had one chance to score touchdown at the end of the first half. He has certain types of guys that he likes and they would not traff those guys that i never understood it. Like even in the draft with Nicole harry the obvious guy for like match with brady was terry maclaurin. Like just watching football. The last two years like that's like a total brady guy. Little guy can get it really smart. Could figure out whatever and i think at some point. He got pretty frustrated with that because anytime they really gave him the toys that he could succeed with. It seemed like he succeeded. Yeah and i mean i i. We check is unbelievable. Talent evaluator you know. He obviously won the lottery with brady but he developed in very well. You know he draft another super bowl howard quarterback and garoppolo. You know the patriots might end up with three four maybe five hall of famers and e was responsible for you know a good chunk of down and but when it came to receiver. He had some sort of limes- fi there was never. They signed the they traded for josh gordon. They had made. I think twenty eight moves at wide receiver between the end of the season and the first week of the season. And you know you ask people why. And it's obvious because of the way they run their offense for every route is in option route and their conversion routes. You saw that touchdown the gronk kadam super bowl where he was running flag and he kind of inside. And that's exactly what it is that that routes not putting the playbook. It's seaworthy defenders covering run to the open spot. It's an iq test absolutely not every player to do that. And so yeah you know and i did a lot you know. Obviously the end of that last season in new england he wanted antonio brown and he wanted to hang onto antonio brown even after the sports illustrated cheese and all of the trouble that tonio got into that was an ownership decision to move on from him. So i think it's when you talk about brady bill and the personnel. It is both as cut a dry as you put it. And you know check was willing to go out there and try to find guys like josh gordon and antonio brown who pretty much worked well with brady but they just didn't end up working out for different reasons. Yeah i wonder like there's a fork in the road. Moment where they just take terry mclaren or decay. Benef- instead of nicole. Harry and they just ride the wave with antonio brown there. I think everybody including myself was like yeah. You gotta cut them. But brady didn't wanna cottam brady believed them and it was like. Let's just ride this out and they kind of overruled them. Had they not overruled them and you just had those two people. I wonder if he would've stayed the subset of the bill. Simmons podcast is brought to you by mcdonald's right now. Mcdonald's you can get any size fountain drink for one dollar for that price. You don't really need a reason anytime day whenever you're feeling it i'm in when you're not feeling found drinks you know what's interesting about found jackson. Mcdonald's those tastes just a little bit. Better i mean i. I'll be honest. I've had found drinks at a few different places. Mcdonald's has mastered it just has the right kind of phase. The as good as you as you fill. I was due the ice first. Then you put the soda in watch it kind of bubble up and you just kind know is going to have the right kicked it again. Any size foundry for one hour order ahead on the app. This episode is brought to you by bolt twenty four from the makers of gatorade. It's both twenty four and advanced. Hydration drink that keeps it really real with no artificial sweeteners or flavours intellectualize from watermelon and seesaw bowl. Twenty four supports your athletic lifestyle. No matter where your day takes you try both twenty four antioxidant which has your one hundred percent daily value of any accident vitamins. Anc or get both twenty four energize for a boost of caffeine apps. Tell you about some of the ball twenty. Four ambassadors. Like daimler serena williams. I'm going to tell you about my daughter and my son because they mailed me a case of these to try them out. They were gone in like two days. My kids went nuts. I rarely if ever do this. And also i can just go you know. I'll just go to the grocery store and buy this stuff. The ball twenty four was so popular in my house. Actually sent an email to our salespeople and said hey bring them back more. My family loves bolt twenty four. So i encourage you to check it out both twenty four keeping it real tribal twenty four today. Gone backwards when you talk about. They didn't want him to stay into his forty-five i made this point on previous pods. This is all solvable in like two thousand seventeen if they do the one last giant deal and they're just like look. We have no idea how long tom brady's gonna play. But we know he's going to retire as a patriot so he thinks he can. Plato forty-five great will pay him. The whole time bell check was you know not not incorrectly. Play in the math is like well all right. I'm going to look at the history of quarterbacks. They hit their forties. It's terrible we can't we can't bank on this and so you had that little tug of war but the reality is had they just said all right. We're all in. Here's a new seven-year deal for acts and will move back. and whatever. I just think he didn't think he could do it. And you're the first one write about the garoppolo stuff and you know whether they talked about brady to the niners and all that stuff. I wonder like of bowel check was just playing the math on that thinking like. It's not realistic. That this guy's going to be good at age forty one and this really genuinely believes he's gonna play to his forty five. I need to get out of this. And he was wrong and i can't even criticize him for being wrong. Because who could have thought brady would play like this heading into his mid forties inconceivable. Yeah and you know by. Now we all continually make the mistake of underestimating. Tom brady and it turns out that even the people who knew him best like bill. Belichick robert kraft did also and you know. I think like our the the entire contract situation is fascinating to me because you have bill ballot check. Who clearly wanted to be committed to brady on a year to year basis. You brady. who's like look. We've done something unprecedented. I'm trying to do something unprecedented. I'd like some clarity here. And i think that i've earned deal that you know. It might be a leap of faith. But i think that i. I've heard enough credibility where i can reward. That fate is and the new craft who made it a side deal with brady saying you know if bill ever wants to move on from you i'll give you some say in how that goes down. And he was trying to kind of navigate the middle space and it. It worked as long as it could. It works for you know but you know they win the super bowl in against the rams you know brady again wants a two year deal so angry in august that he thinks about walking out a champ Or the season starts. He was so pissed they announce a two year deal which is really a one year deal. He said publicly he knew right then. It was last year in new england. And then they bring antonio brown and it you know. I think provided a spirit lift where he was. I you know. I think we can go wind now and then brown just didn't last long there at all. And you know the rest is is pretty well documented into the middle of the twentieth nineteen season. The patriots were undefeated. And he tells i'll michaels. I'm the most miserable eight no quarterback in the nfl. Yeah wonder if they just gave him a three year deal after the ram super bowl. And maybe he's like hey we'll give you this day. Oh we want you to retires patriot. We might suck for one of these years. You get. I think he would have taken it. I agree with you but So if you're looking at like the little checkpoints where this fell apart something something during that garoppolo stretch where even if brady was brought up to the niners and that got back to brady. So that's the first portrayal And then the second piece was bella. Check being forced to trade garoppolo for under market. 'cause it seems like he wanted him to succeed. We talked about that. The last time he came on the park as he literally took less than what garoppolo's worth to kind of show the crafts that this was a mistake. It seems like would you agree. That was a crazy situation and then you have brady last year. You know roughly a year ago at this telling the forty niners. Hey if you want me you know back-channeling to the forty niners. Hey if you want me. I'm yours. You know no free agency chore. No you know bidding war. I will go to san francisco. Go back to my hometown team. My parents can go back to driving. Two games brady existed tortured and i mean what do you think the forty niners stop watching that super bowl because you're garoppolo was fairly played this year because he was injured and tom brady didn't miss a snapped. Injury again ended up. Throwing fifty touchdown passes last year when you combine regular season and playoffs or my josh. What were they thinking. Yeah that would have been tough with grotto's contract from a cab standpoint. I guess that would have been the catch right. They they resist bad luck with how it worked out with the money. Yeah i mean look. We're seeing stuff. The last couple years with lebron and brady that have no correlation to really anything in the history of sports except for when barry bonds as head started growing in two thousand one. This this seems much more authentic And there's reasons for that right like the. The machines are better the trainings better. The knowledge is better. diets are better. These guys have figured out a way to preserve their bodies as long as they don't get injured in ways that we just couldn't measure. I think kobe would have been the first guy that had this happen. Except he got hurt. He pushed it too far. Blew out his achilles. And i think that's the thing brady and lebron have not had happened yet and why they're still able to chug along because they haven't had the injury that screwed up the training and the day to day and all the all the work that they put their bodies so for ballot check. It's really hard to ding ballot. Check on this. It's hard to to say. Oh man you should have known. This dude could do this at age forty three because to me it's inconceivable and even when When brady was saying he was going to play till forty five. Which i think i was the first one who wrote about that kazaa. His friends were always telling me that he was plato. He's forty five. I'm like forty five. That seems like an insane numbers eight. No that's what he wants. He wants to play toys and then brady eventually started talking about it publicly. I wanna play until i'm forty five. He's gonna play until he's forty five. It makes no sense. This is a contact sport. Then he doesn't get hit that much in you know. The most predictable moment of super bowl week was when brady was asked. If he continues to play the high level he think about playing beyond forty five and he was like. Yeah definitely yeah. It's just like what we were talking about earlier. You know in terms of him being sixty nine years old entering the season with no end in sight. I mean these guys are driven by something that you know. Most people can't fathom it. of course they're gonna move the goalposts. When brady was heard. In two thousand eight he was faced with his football football mortality. And you know he was out in california rehabbing away from the team and you know all these opportunities that had come to him during his first seven years as the starter. Do you wanna act. You wanna do this. That he realized he didn't wanna do any play football and so around that time he starts talking about playing until age forty then a couple years later. He talks about playing into his forties. An yeah you probably were. You know talking. Don't we put the benchmark on each forty five right there and then of course now he's talking about playing beyond that. I wish they had a little camera. Giselle next to him to look at her reaction when he's talking about playing beyond forty five because it's pretty well documented that she would love it if he retired by now but also it couldn't have come to any surprise to her because he simply he does not. There's nothing in this world that enjoys doing more than playing football in the last dance came out last year. And you know everybody asked brady. Oh you know where you like jordan. Do you collect slights. And i think there is something about that with him. i think that he does. I don't think he manufacturers are like jordan did but he simply loves playing football. I mean somebody wants. Ask jerry seinfeld how do you find the will to keep doing comedy. Perfect jokes after he accomplished so much and seinfeld was like will at all. We'll is not eating a piece of cake at dinner it's love. It's the rather do this than anything else. And that's tom brady right now. Football's never been easier. You know before the super bowl. He's talking to his receivers he's like we got the answers. The task we know exactly what to do. Just do it. He doesn't get hit very much. He's got a great group of talent around him. He's got a coach. You let them do whatever he wants. Yeah and he's got wore accumulated knowledge than anybody. Who's ever played quarterback one he also has a. I thought that instagram video is so funny. Where the d. back was like look at brady's like if we're also he's like packing his stuff just getting ready like i think brady probably thinks they have a better chance of winning next year than they did this year and he's just now you know now he's in this territory where the first goal was had a pass manning which he was pretty transparent about when the when the e mails came out with deflate gate and he said that email to his friend. Kevin brady about eat up. Man's got one year left. I'm gonna. I'm gonna be playing six seven more years so you know it was always always on his by a but now now he's moving this territory where it's like came and russell jordan. That's it. I am notching. Imagine what it was like to be paid manning watching the super bowl in person. He was there talk. Radio has had a hall of fame career since peyton manning retired at age thirty nine. You know you think about this. I was thinking about this. The other took my dad about this. You could take out the first five years of brady's career right so his rookie read is a play. The next four where he wins three super bowls he his take them out. Start with his two thousand five season where they lose to denver and j palmer and go all the way to now and he's still the greatest quarterback of all time. Yeah he he would still have stats. That could be at least close. Everybody else he would have the super bowls and the resume. You'd have eighteen in one season and we would say he's the best and then you have the first five years you could just add those. So nobody's doing it. I mean we talk sound. I talked on sunday about the difference than him in mahomes he and i think mahomes is more talented but i think mahomes the wear and tear on him versus what's happened to brady where he's only really had one bad hit he's had some concussions. There's no question i think. He was a hundred percent cost in that denver playoff game. They lost by two. I personally think he. At least in one of the super bowls of the philly atlanta may be both He's definitely had a few but other and that he there's been a lot and part of it's because he's six five and he's a huge guy. Bombs is not a huge guy. Mahomes has already had four injuries varying from minor to beijing. And i think the ability piece has to be factored at brady once. Told me the story where he it was saturday morning. Mrs probably two thousand ten two thousand eleven and It was citing saturday morning meeting with ballot. Check the night before a game the day before. A game in dollar check was watching film of mark sanchez. In brady's in the room with him and sanchez is rolling out. He's got defenders on his heels and he's got breeland edwards downfield sixty yards downfield and all checks is watching this and he's talking out loud. He's like throw it he. You're not going. Have someone more open to that. Just throw it in. Brady's little thought bubble is like are you joking. Do you know what would happen if i was rolling out and try to throw at sixty yards downfield. It wouldn't even go twenty yards and brady said to me he goes. You know when. I see a play. I see within my limits and cause comments at the time that i didn't really think much about but you look at him now because he you're right he's not physically dominant like mahomes and yet a defense cannot take away every throw and he knows where to go with the ball on almost every play in. It's just amazing. You know there was the the sequence at the end of the first. Half against the packers. Richard the touchdown scotty miller down the sideline. And you know he can't throw deep all the time. She has plenty of arm strength. But you know where it lands. You know sometimes is anyone's guess. But that was a situation where you know he saw dot throw is going to be open and he was able to exploit it at the most critical moment and i think that's what he was getting out with comments like that he just says you know when i see a play within my limitations. I know exactly what i do in any particular plan. I don't try to do things that i chance. And it's amazing to consider the level if he's taken that too it's also he's just gigantic guy. He's one of those guys that when you're standing in front of him you you kinda do a double take and this this happens. There's basketball players like this to like when you meet. Somebody like lebron and he was like. Oh this guy's six nine hundred sixty pounds like you did. A double take does not a lot of quarterback she would do the double-take with like i had rogers amazed be osho seemed like a normal guy like easily. Just could have been an actor director or ito musician. You wouldn't have necessarily known. He was a quarterback. Brady was different. Like he's a legit six five and he's a big dude and add the that's really helped him over the years Absolutely a high release too and so he just. He doesn't get into trouble throwing the ball because he is six four six five and he makes himself taller. But i know exactly what you mean. I mean when you're next to him you stand up straighter. Because he's that tall he's a big dude I know this is an impossible question to answer. And it's two parts and i know you've been asked that before. How do you think ballot check. Felt watching that game aid that he watched the game. Be the rooting for tom. Or do you think he was just studying what they were doing to the chiefs and going in that weird ballot check student mode. I bet you that he was unsurprised by the results. That brady showed up in a big game and probably deeply fired up in a way that he'll never admit publicly What about bob kraft the same. You know i think the same probably probably sadder you know like crafts goal was to keep the band together as long as he possibly could and generally. She did a pretty good job of that when you look at how sports dynasties though but you know after the nfc championship game crafts texted brady. Any wished him. Good luck We even heard anything about whether bill belichick did right sat. I've talked to. Jonathan kraft a few times over the yards crafts son. You know he's crafts just for the listeners This smart guy and a couple of times he would talk about brady and it was just like that's our guy. He's our quarterback forever. And i really do think the crafts felt that way you know and i wonder you know bob. Kraft's old now you know. He's he's almost eighty. He saved the patriots when six super bowls like he goes down in history. I really think he cared about the brady relationship and brady you know especially as somebody who grew up in massachusetts understanding like when bob your left to play for the blackhawks says really painful. Like i wish that hadn't happened now when When bird stayed with the celtics the entire time in retired. Same thing for russell Ted williams i think that meant something to him and Pardon me is still surprised that he didn't overrule ballot. Check on this and just build were. Tom's never playing for another team. And if that's not cool with you then this is where we part ways in a way. That feels like he pick ballot check. I think he did but he also both jonathan and robert had said publicly especially after I believe the falcons super bowl in the years after that the the brady earned the rights to walk away on his terms from new england's and yes said like they're spreading the breadcrumbs just by saying that exactly and then you know. I i think that even if he had overruled dollar a year ago now it was too late. You know. I think that like i said in august of twenty nineteen within a good contract and in brady's is contemplating walking out a training camp You know they got that clause in the contract. And the patriots couldn't franchise and you know brady was gone and yet whether it you know it officially happened. At robert kraft house we know where he drooled over and craft thought that they were going to quietly negotiate an extension with new england and instead brady had other news. That's when it officially ended. But i think the brady new over for a long long time and that's a lot of the stuff at all explorer In the book that comes out later this year. So the move in retrospect they beat atlanta. It's the greatest performance by player in super bowl. Ever i'll defend that to death. You leave that game away. two weeks in your dislike. Let's do a seven year deal right now and whatever you're retiring with us and they just didn't do it you know they didn't do it and remember that was also. The offseason were brady decided that he was going to be known as something other than the new england patriots quarterback he was going to be known as someone who wanted to revolutionize training. And you know that. August all that that's when he started yellow weird. Let's be at us. I mean you know. His book came out in september of two thousand eighteen and he did a lot of promotions for it and you know he truly believed in that methodology is still does. I mean and all of those little things you know. They were small but pre existing divides said they just got whiter from there on out. Well it was a great run. I i'd solved by By personal dilemma. By just betting on the bucks every round so that was really fun. It was like brady still begley well. When does your come out october. Nineteenth i believes next fall in your like ninety percent down as they're still a little morsels. You're grabbing from people. Still gotta do some work on the last months of the of the season but You know it's pretty done and you know it's a look. It's it's a look at the patriots twenty year run and into the season. And you know. I just i do my very best to show. How great is was achieved in what the cost of it were. I hope you go deep into deflate gate and what a travesty that was. I still can't believe it cost by team. A first round pick. You can argue not having that first round pick could have been the start of all of the suit that better been. That could have been who knows it. All pro linebacker other. Maybe they would have just traded backwards. You started all right said wicker. Sham look forward. Read the book. thanks for coming on. I really appreciate it all right. That's it for the podcast. I'm back on. Sunday and kevin o'connor we can do a little sunday night. Nba pod so. We will see you sunday. The wayside remember everyone wants to keep their home and family safe right now from break ends fire flooding medical mercy whatever. It is simply safe home security delivers award winning twenty four seven protection an arsenal of cameras and sensors the best professional monitors in the business. That got your back day and night. They're reticent police fire. Emt's whatever it is when you need them straight to your door right now my listeners get a free home security camera when you purchase a save system at simplisafe dot com slash bs. That is simply safe to is sixty day. Risk-free trial simplisafe dot com slash bs.

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