2 Episode results for "Darlene Patterson"
LoveSeen founder Jenna Lyons: "It's incredibly important to stand in who you are"
"Were thanks for tuning into the glossy beauty podcast. I'm your host pre arou- executive editor glossy and today's guest. Is jean alliance. The founder of love seeing welcome. Jenna thank you for having me hyper you hi jenna. It's so good to see you again. Jeddah i think our listeners. Probably don't need an introduction to who you are because you know your your career at j. crew and so what you've done in the last twenty years in fashion but for those out there who need a little motivation today. Tell us a little bit about how you got started in fashion and beauty and lifestyle. Oh sure i mean. I think it was kind of by accident. I was super tall. When i was little and at in seventh grade was six feet tall and that was hard especially with the boys and nothing that me there was no j brand jeans back then there was no nobody making tall close for young girls didn't exist and so i was constantly buying like really big close and i thought that was like the size fourteen because those are the pants. Were long enough for me. I just didn't even understand took a homework class. And i made myself a skirt and the teacher showed me how to measure myself. And i made a bias full length watermelon skirt and i walked into school. And darlene patterson who was like the most popular girl in class who sat next to me and social studies. Looked over at me inside. Where did you get that skirts. So cute and i was like it was the first time anyone had given me positive feedback about the way i looked and i had a genetic disorder so i had my teeth clinic dealer. Had bald spots in my head scarves. I would love stuff going on. That did not make me feel good about my visual presence to have someone give me positive feedback about the way i looked so altering and really think really emotionally like powerful and so i also had made that thing which was sort of the combination of two things really no. I enjoy the process. And i felt really proud at the end. So yeah a kind of. I got a subscription to vogue that christmas and my grandmother amy sewing machine and like i was hooked so jet. You also went to fashion school before starting at j. crew. What was that lake. I did i had. I had gone to parsons. This was before project runway before anyone knew about parsons my art teacher in seventh grade. Also this is webster had shown me a book about antonio lopez called antonio's girls and i was like obsessed with you know i'd never seen women that were that looked different like the the way that he portrayed women. He was in love. With like grace jones and tina chow and jerry hall and all i had ever seen of ideal beauty was blonde haired big boobs ten because i grew up in california and i sort of understood one idea of beauty and all the sudden i was like wow there is a world of beauty out there and the way that they wore clothes and just the images of them and how bold and it was just so exciting to me. And so yeah. I went to parsons and that was my puppy and it was an amazing experience. I've met donna. Karen and calvin klein and oscar And his it's interesting that you say like how you didn't see yourself visually in popular culture and fashion and then you landed at one of these. Very all american retailers like jay. Kurt which is a known back. Then i think like four. Maybe not the big boobs but You know very preppy wand proposition. So i'm wondering you know when you were thinking about taking that job and then obviously growing in that job to where you were at the end of it How did you decide to kind of like funk it up a little bit. And i think you know one of the things that i loved about new york was that there were so many different types of beauty here. I remember the very first time. I was walking down the street in new york and a man whistled at me and i just didn't get that kind of attention in california and what. I realized that the there are just other ideals out. There are people like different kinds of things and i became really attached this idea of like pushing the boundaries of what people's ideals were and it got. I was excited about being able to do that. I didn't get to do that until i was you know had been in the company for fifteen twenty years because i was obviously just an assistant. The first day. I walked in the door but i also had this deep desire to fit in as well and those two things were set in real opposition. I wanted to fit in. I wanted to look like all the girls in my high school. But i didn't. And then. When i got here i'd spend so much time trying to fit in that i had sort of lost and didn't really know who i was or what i thought was beautiful so i had to do a lot of exploration while sitting in this very preppy. Pretty waspy environment. It was really it was hired. It was weird challenge. It took me years to kind of be able to balance my own perspective in aesthetic. And what i thought we could share with the world versus what i knew the company where the roots were and and what was the right thing. I mean we. You know we didn't have a lot of representation of in general not just a different ethnicities but we didn't have a lot of representation terms of age writing. We didn't have a lot and size and that took a really long time to to kind of put in everyone's mind. And i think it was thrilled to be able to have an opportunity to do some of that into stretch the boundaries a little bit but and so one of the things that you said restraint now is like how transformative fashion you know when you're at school with antonio lopez even entertainment j. crew. I would argue now. That's what we're seeing so much. Imbued you know this conversation of inclusivity and diversity. And i mean it is the blau. This thing we're hearing in beauty today. Was that what kind of may be attracted you to become a founder in the swirl. I think it's so layered. I think a couple of things one is. I knew that you know having felt not seen when i was young and feeling left out of a lot of things are just not feeling beautiful. I realized how powerful it is to feel attractive. It's really it's it is transformative it's like can really make you. It can make you happy. Like just simply happy. And i wanted to do something where i knew that i could share my view and make everyone feel included in seen and so when we were originally starting the brand that was important to like we hired at the very beginning. We heard twenty one. Different women and men Seeing men in the beauty space this whole incredible these days. I love that that's changed. I came to new york. And i was the first time i met a gay person. I didn't know anyone who's gay and mike. I saw boys make a public. That's kind of amazing. You know not. Just like robert smith from the cure or bowie but like just regular guys on a regular day wearing makeup. I was like okay. This is amazing. And so i think being able to really share that and having to be able to do that myself and like on my own terms was so exciting. The reason i started it wasn't necessarily about diversity was really about my own lack of eyelashes I was thrilled to be able to do something that felt really inclusive. And it's been it's been really remarkable. Not just in terms of the way that we were able to show the brand but in some of the marketing and this is gonna sound surprising but we just had an email conversation yesterday and looking back at some the emails that we'd sent out and we sent out one that was literally just like people we admire people that are things that are interesting and serve. Its women's we were doing this stories about different. Women ended the number of people who wrote in and purchased from that and also said like take my inclusive money like literally the words if people said and house like dusk kind of amazing that the email was not about purchasing a product. It was literally just telling a story about women that i admire. And why meyer them. And how women who came before our influencing younger women now today and people like but more on that than the one the email that we send out about bestsellers amazing Jeddah you mentioned the top of the conversation you know you had genetic disorder growing up and you know that informed the way that you thought about yourself and being beautiful but it also informed this line you know. Eyelashes are a very specific segment of the beer category. And you know. I think we talked about this last time before it was all about going and get your eyelashes done out of the house. Spending two hundred dollars and looking. Maybe a little tarantula like this is all about maybe bringing that idea to the home. So can you kind of explain that sure. I mean i think anyone who has something that they feel deficient in. I'm sure that's the thing that you notice and everyone else. If you don't have great hair you notice the girl with the beautiful on hair. And i think not having eyelashes. I was super attuned to other people's eyelashes. So i noticed all the women in my office coming in with as you said eyelash extensions that literally would arrive in the room before they come from and you know on on the same token i was doing research for a beauty company just separately and i noticed i was watching like all these who beauty videos where she was putting on like seven layers of concealed island shadow and highlight. I was like how many products could put on their face. But i loved it and at the end they will put on an eyelash. I thought it was really interesting that to really opposite ends of the beauty spectrum these these girls take for no other makeup and then you had like who to be. Candidates were like full makeup. And there's nothing in between. I couldn't find anything that sort of sat in the middle and so that was. What really got me excited as i. I don't have any eyelashes though. I can't wear those really crazy ones. And i don't have any eyelashes to attach eyelash extensions. So maybe i should make some that. I can wear and in doing that and starting to talk to people in research. I realized that there really wasn't anyone doing that. And so that's been kind of. Did you expect to kind of come back in the second life or maybe third life who knows how many lives we have but as a beauty founder. Everybody probably expected you to do something in fashion or launcher online. Like why were you so passionate about this doing it this way. I mean. I think. I think i had an incredible run and an honestly. I thought i would do fashion to. I'd never anticipated this really honestly happening. Because i've said this before and people don't really believe it but like i thought i would get calls. I thought people would say hey we come in. You know design this land and didn't happen and i think the industry is changing. I mean i think i think starting an eyelash company had really nothing to do with other than the fact. I didn't have a job. And i wasn't getting phone calls. I thought to put call just didn't happen. And so i found myself like sitting on my couch daydreaming and and i was asked to to take a look at something that somebody was working on for a beauty company and when i did that i started to do research and say okay. Well what's the landscape. Because i don't know it. And that was sort of how i stumbled upon all of these videos and sort of connecting dots on my head and i was like well. Maybe i could do that. And then i met somebody who i was going to be working on a business plan for another project for the television show and i told him about this idea and he was like that's cool and he's like why don't we do that. I was like wait really. And he gives a cow and so we would have business plan. And i know it sounds crazy like it all just kind of happened. I think sometimes when things are meant to be they are. I don't want to say easy because it hasn't been easy but it just kind of happened. I everything happen. Naturally i was so incredible and still can't believe geno that surprised me. Besides the beauty piece of it is that you know rather than say maybe launching with a specific retailer. Or you know going into barney's of barneys was still around you know this is an elevated product or a sephora You guys you decided to do. The cdc and i rub in our last conversation. You reminded me that. J. crew was once really its own ecosystem and it didn't soil anywhere else so i'm wondering about kind of the lessons there that you had anything. I think the one thing that you can really identify with if you look at what's happened with the landscape of brands of brand is king. No is about brand interesting. Because i have a friend who works in the industry and they were talking about how brilliant the messaging into the marketing around the kardashians businesses are like skims. And and i've and i've talked to my friend who who has some hand and they developed the brand identity before they even developed the product. They really decide. Who is this person. What do we want to say. What do we want the brand to look and feel like and then let's go execute on the product. Make sure that it fills. And i think that's a really interesting concept that's really a reversal i grew up with. But it really has become something that is so tantamount and it's very hard to control your message or talk to your consumer through someone else. You know when you think about how you message like an email i if i'm sending an email through a sephora or i have no control over the messaging no control of your experience with customer service. We have are launching. A new brand is so much of that is learning and testing and learning. So for instance you know. Some people are struggle with putting them on and literally they will you know reach out to molly who is our customer service person. Mali will call me and say this person's really having a hard time and i'll make a little video or do a facetime chat with them and they're like so blown away and then like i can't believe you spent time to do this and they become a fan and then they are a disciple and that's great and you can't do that when you are selling through a larger company. It's incredibly important. I think especially at the outset when you you're starting from nothing to really stand in who you are and tell people who you are and then and also figure it out yourself. I think really having an attention and being able to connect their customers directly so tantamount to being successful because it really gives you real time direct feedback about what you're doing right and what you're doing wrong. Would you say that you knew who the customer is going to be before you launched. It's funny. I had an idea and i had a dream and i had this concept and i didn't i got really nervous especially towards the end somebody like literally a sprinkle of doubt into my head about something so we originally came out and said okay. We wanna do lashes that feel very natural and that was the goal and at the end. Someone's like wait a minute. So you're not going to appeal to the girl. Who wants something a little bit more volume and i was like. Oh god you're right. And i got scared like i literally like we were just about to launch the added to new styles. In at the very end we were just about to launch. I had a panic of like. Maybe this is terrible. And ironically that is the number one request everyone calls up and says the number one most natural ash and the thing that. I'm still completely amazed by is i went on the wendy williams show which was so incredibly fun and i you know. She wears very big makeup. Lots of lashes and pretty volume. And i thought that customer is going to want something a little bit more volume intense. Just figuring her her. You know the people that really love her are going to probably identify with her and want. That was complete opposite exactly same thing. The day that we i went on the show. All of our most natural lashes with the ones that everyone was texting e-mailing and which ones that are most natural which i was really shocked so that was the goal. So it's yeah it's working and we got picked up by google which are most natural lash which is kind of interesting. I think it was. That was the that was the goal. I can't believe it. Actually what you told me. Last time we spoke that ninety percent of the customers that are coming to love seeing our new to wearing lashes completely correct. Yes which i never would have expected that many people to try something new particularly you know when no one's going anywhere and thrilled. It's incredible again. I was super surprised. I think again the the most important thing is like okay. Well do they come back. And how's that bid so well. I mean we are six months old so we definitely have repeat customers. And that's been thrilling. But i think it'll be really interesting to see wants. The world opens up and people start going out more and you know people are having in person events and weddings and dates and all of those things right now. It's been a very strange time to launch a a an idea or concept that connects to wanting to they do help you on a zoom call for sure but i think it's it'll be interesting to see as we grow how many customers get and we do get people who have worn them before but we are getting a lot more that are total newbies. Which is kind of amazing when you think about the content strategy you know what are the things that i really besides the in-home mailer that i got kind of had the your trajectory along with like twinkies trajectory and lashes all about them but besides that i really have loved the quiz capability on the site and you seeing all of these different women of ages of different ages of different races and ethnic studies. And you know that coming through. So how are you thinking about content. Because i know that genus picks was a huge thing at j. crew. You told me that it was one of those things that you didn't think it was going to get as big as dead. So what was your idea of contact. Because i think that when people still talk about ecommerce content the holy grail was like j. crew in two thousand twelve. People are still trying to do that now. The great keep trying. I mean i think one of the. There's a couple of things that i learned that our our golden rules that i've carried enter trying to utilize one is people through bullshit. People are smart. They want honesty. They don't want you to like they don't want you to tell them something. That is not true and they also don't want you to sell to them all the time like don't just be a pusher because honestly i think they just are over it and i think and that was i think so interesting was we. We're selling with shakra. We had eight million products to sell so we had a new thing to talk about every day but with lashes. We don't we are selling the same product so we had to really think about. Okay well what is our content strategy look like under those auspices because we don't want bombard people with like here's another email about a lash so we really sat down on the team and the team up some great ideas around like. How do we talk about like what's happening in the world. Let's talk about you. Know we you know we sent an email about you know standing behind. Api and really what's happening in that. That email drove sales. People responded to that because they felt scene and they like thank you for acknowledging and reminding me that like brands actually have can have a voice. And i think that has been another important thing of standing up for you believe in in really and really being generous and thinking about it. We've also done emails where we're talking about other brands and people who are selling things that we admire that we're think are doing illegal and that's heads should nice effect because those other brands are actually supporting us. I think we did a lot of j. crew as well and it really creates this community as opposed to just feeling like you're out there just trying to sell stuff like there is a bigger concept here. There is a bigger motivation to create a world of people who like who feel about in who feel connected to the brand and that makes a world of difference in beauty. The founder story seems to be so important. These days founders across the border on instagram on on lives livestreaming doing the whole shtick. And i i know that you were very involved in the business. But i mean this isn't like quote unquote the gen alliance brand. I feel like when you look at love scene very much on your social and all of your on your website assets. It's not you all over the place. What was that about. I mean i think that was obviously intentional. I mean i think. I think you know i definitely around and i'm there and i do participate but i also wanted the brand to have a life of its own and i also went through a really hard time when i left j. crew. I was deeply connected to the brand and that was really painful. And i'm not suggesting that i'm going to leave. Loves him. But i realized that i wanted the brand to have its own identity and have an also i you know. J. crew was about style about clothing. And this is about beauty and i didn't want people to connect me like i didn't want you look really different than me. I wanted you to come into the brand and see people who look like you and in order to do that. It couldn't be about me. I didn't you know. I'm a fifty two year old white woman. I if you'd like somebody who's you know looks totally different. And his younger than me may not identify with me. And so i didn't want to put myself overly attached if your business standpoint yes of course but i think from a branding. I wanted it to feel like everyone for everyone. Not just me you know what about when it came to the investment piece of it and obviously talking to retailers. Because i'm sure you know everyone's very excited to meet you and talk to you and think about that. But i imagine you've been really reticent kind of obviously to go into big retail except for goop and that's an online site and then also on the investment piece i it's not like love scene is talking about this round. They raise in that round. They raised in all of that kind of thing. Which is you know today as much a part of marketing of new brand as sending an email newsletter. So interesting you say that and i think you're probably right. I think it might be just because of the trajectory and the way that it happened. We didn't go through rounds. We have one investor who and i have a partner who is connected to that investment firm and you know we had a pretty fluid process of getting to the starting gate you know i. I think it's very true. I think this whole obviously heard lobby the news about beauty counter recently. In congratulations to that team dino. It's it hasn't been something that i it hasn't been something that i've had to do. It hasn't really been a topic of conversation. Honestly so something i wouldn't talk about it. I just i just haven't been asked honestly and because we weren't public about it like it hasn't come up but i'd had a really straightforward process in that regard and feel really lucky around that because i can be very hard. I didn't think about it as a marketing opportunity. Maybe i should have no. I mean i feel like. I get pitches all the time that someone raised a series a. or series b. or c. c. at just more and more press and so i just always wonder when it comes to a founder. What they think about that. Or if that's part of the strategy i mean. Listen i haven't had. I haven't gone there yet and i think knowing that you're saying that maybe i do. I will consider it. I think i do really like the idea of want the company to grow. I want the company to be able to do other things. I want to be able to have the team build a team and continue to nurture an the whole ecosystem of but like there's a million different ways that can happen. It might be through investment. It might be through selling to you know a bigger box. I just wanted to make sure that as we started we had our own identity that we could control and that was sort of a launching pad but who knows. We're so on that now. Janet tell me a little bit about goop because they know think we both really appreciate that curation that lifestyle point of view. Why were they right to sell. I think for a couple of reasons. One is i think he obviously. There's one of the things we talked about is that people can see through bullshit they want and they want someone to tell them. I think that's why you know the thing sort of it in that same category like someone sifting through all of the information and saying. Here's what i recommend. And i think she's done incredible job of really parsing through all of the noise ton of products out there and and she's got real authority there because she's really done a great job of selecting things that people have done that i would like the product now. I'm going to go back and buy i think on top of that. I think she really personifies beauty. She doesn't wear a ton of makeup and the idea that she might support a fake eyelash than you probably are going to feel comfortable that it's going to look good and it's not going to be a transplant. And i think that that sort of curation authority and being and being told him being entrust is really so important particularly today where there's just so much to sift through. I mean i literally like can't i mean i can't find anything i want anytime i'll do you know that i spent like literally like four hours on i. It's over the weekend just going through. I was on page eighty five chairs and like how our there so many tears. I think having someone tell you that this is okay and that they believe in it is super powerful. We've had great run already. It's been so exciting and successful swimming thrilled. How do you feel about big box retail. Today you know whether it makes sense for like say a sephora and ulta or anywhere else in the future yeah i. I used to have a really. It's really different. Beauty is very different than say clothing. You know i think beauty has an opportunity you can really you can make your mark and you can stand on your own. You are really having a singular experience. No one has to with clothing you. I mean listen when you get to. There's so many ways that can get messed up and it's really sad because you know the clothing is an expression so you build a collection but if you're going to sell it to barney's bargains may only by a tiny little rock so then your your collection isn't really getting shown and so that is a really tricky thing when you make clothing because you want someone to experience your world do you want to be able to show them how you saw pieces together and so i think the beauty you this opportunity you can show your whole world. You can show your image what you're looking for. You can have all the products. They're the entire line can be expressed. So there's it's not the same i think. Sort of derivative in clothing. That i it is for beauty beauty. I think is more of a standalone experience. So i'm not opposed to it. I mean i think you know. Like i said i wanted to start and manage the brand from a very specific point of you son. Short that happens wouldn't be upset. Geno what about other products. I mean i know that the last tools been like kind of the thing that sold out repeatedly. I can't believe i'm so excited. Yeah and that's obviously teaching someone to use something that's totally new something that's not in their repertoire at all so i'm wondering like are you thinking about extending whether it's more tools or eyeliner mascara i mean who knows. What are you thinking about. And i think i've this has been a big question. And i think you know the first six months have been like testing and learning getting have sold out the twelve surprisingly and that's been really exciting of now. Peter interest in terms of like. Okay what should our next step. We've been getting questions from customers about like wilkin. You make glue liner. That comes out with the well exists on the market. And should we do our own. There's a lot of things. I think we could can probably will do in the future. I think my previous life has taught me that like complexity is just that it is complex and keeping your business as simple as possible particularly in the beginning when you're growing is really helpful and also the standing for something. It's much easier for me to talk more clearly in focused about lashes when you start adding all those other things than the messaging gets more more diluted. I think for right now i think we want to really do a really good job and get the message out and get known for something and then as that becomes more articulated we can maybe think about adding stuff that no you know. Obviously i follow you on instagram. Follow the brand instagram. And it's very well curated insp beautiful but i'm wondering lashes on tiktok are really having a moment among enzi and enormous to be that is like you know jesse is taking on a whole life of its own when it comes to beauty and fashion and what they expect what they want so just wondering what you think about that age demographic and if they are buying they an interesting enough with the the one of the most common things we keep hearing are on buying these for me and my daughter and i thought that was really interesting. Because they're not you know it's like going to get a manicure with your mom. That's sort of one of the first things you do as a beauty experience as a kid. Your mom takes you to get a pedicure and i think it's interesting to hear that they are definitely buying them we we also get a lot of user generated content so we see the pictures of people sending us images of an. It's i mean we have people who are thirteen have people who are eighteen on. It's it's ironic. They're really engaged and they're so funny You know. I think. I haven't done any talks. And we haven't as a brandon expert. From everything i understand about tiktok and we've talked about it quite a bit. You have to really be on it all the time. We don't really have bandwith to do that right now. But i would love to. I always remember when instagram came out. And everyone's like oh it's a phase it's a fad and have no idea it'll be interesting to see what happens with tiktok geno with instagram specifically. You know i remember. We talked last time. It's not like you guys have gone. You know gone. The gamut in terms of performance marketing. Right when you think about all these like social media channels. It's not a bunch of paid activation or paid ads. So you know. That's kind of the lever. That brands really pull these last couple of years. So what are you thinking about that. I mean we're doing an various small way right now. I'm doing it to what we're calling a test and learn face trying different things seeing what works seeing what checks then using that inform what our next decision is so right. Now we're just sort of. We have our toes dipped in the water. We haven't gone full fokker but we will. Obviously we talked about this last time too. But you know you had a million different people working for you at j. crew. What's it been like just the basics of being a startup founder. Like how many people are on your team. Yes i just had a conversation about this the other night i last night. I literally fought with the printer for like four hours like it was printing on a black and white. For some reason. I had to reload the paper ten times when i don't know how to change it from black and white to color just will not change. I had to get my kid to come and help me. And he couldn't figure it's it's hard it's at the same time you know. I also have kind of love being really close to the product and the process. The team is probably. I think we're like nine people and we are everyone. Every single person in the team is doing multiple jobs. There's no one person whose job is like solely ex. We are absolutely cross pollinating and russell making our own contents. I mean we literally. We had a little photo. Shoot thing that we were doing the day and we were using an iphone and putting lashes on products and playing around and like for making your own content because is what we have to do right now and we don't want to spend a lot of money and also it's covance so we're trying to keep it really lo fi and it's just a totally different world. It's it's hard but it's also really refreshing. And i'm learning. I you know at the end. Of my tenure. I don't know if i was really like learning anymore. You know. I was doing the same things i was making the same decisions i was. You know having the same conversations with new people and reorienting them to all the things that i've known for years and years and years and i was like i didn't feel like i was moving forward and that doesn't it's not as motivating and i think i got a little bit burnt out. And so this is like it's every day is new every damn learning. Every day i feel excited and like at the end of the dam. Have to ask anybody is cool. Yeah i like okay great. That's that part is great. Do you feel confident and those decisions. Because i imagine i mean sometimes but now i mean i think i would. I did learn in my life is it's better to just. There's being paralyzed is actually. It's not good for the team. It's not an honestly like we're so we're still small no decision that we make currently is going to make or break anything. It's all about learning so like just try. Just go and do it and see what happens and you know if it works. Great if it doesn't no harm no foul like just try and think making decisions and just moving forward. Even you know. I had to do that at my previous because i had so many things that are coming my way and i got really used to being okay with making tons of decisions today in knowing that probably out of fifty decisions i mean three of them are gonna suck. That's okay and giving yourself licensed to be like. Hey i don't have to be perfect. Can i can make fifty decisions in a day and you know granted. Obviously a jake had to be very careful of which ones are the sector. Which money was buying. But i think that's. That's the power of having that experience and being able to utilize that a move. That i wouldn't say i'm confident to believe that my decisions are all right. But i'm confident that moving forward and going and just being open to. That is the right decision. I think we've got a gentleman. I can't really top ask another question to ask. Thank you so much for being here. It's so exciting to have you. And i know our listeners. We're gonna get a lot out of this. Thank you thanks for tuning into the glossy beat podcast for theme. Music is by. Otis mcdonald's tune in next week for another episode. And if you know someone or more than one who should be listening to the glossy beat podcast. please have subscribe.
EPISODE 68 -- BUCKSHOT JONES PART 1
"Hello my name is Rik Houston and welcome to the scene. Volkov cast your source for all things Nascar history presented by ah q where maintain excellence. The alarm kept going off in Pontiac. We'll get up the next morning yet. Great ahead to the track in my car is out there on Jackson's Sean. Down into one. He deliberately runs. And you know I'd have it I mean and that was ridiculous. Yeah you know. I went after him that night. You went after Andy. You got five five thousand dollars. Where's my money that a day NASCAR and all associated in any way when that's forget the past today we don't have any hello? I'm Steve Way and my name is Rik. Houston and welcome to the scene. Bob podcast presented by Q.. Where and also And the two thousand our own income on scene vault podcast playoff champion You pull out of ood pulled it out aware you know. What a Ma? God that thick for the homestead finale Martin direct junior finished second. And where did your you've picked. Who didn't he had any the hamlet was he a race he was done he show up at homestead was done by a block of tape on his car? Hey let's not talk about pit crew snafus foods. Okay I had tires on the wrong side of the copyright your hand junior size on the wrong side of the car okay. So I'm the champion correct. Ah I'll just under the current system you are. We're GONNA have to come to some kind of compromisable. Yeah a some kind of arrangement arrangement that will benefit our listeners. Even more let's think about it a little all right well okay. Let's think about it while we discuss what we're going to discuss in this week's episode episode and then we'll maybe come to grips with what we're going to do in the conclusion. All right. That sounds good to me. What are you say so one other thing that I wanted to mention state before we get into the episode I was in Wheeler Texas this weekend for the Fiftieth Anniversary of the flawed Apollo? Twelve astronauts Allan Bayne who was the lunar module pilot on on that flight walked on the moon during that flight. He was born in that very small. Texas town Steve. They had an auction during the festivities. Okay and do you know how you're always kind of giving me a hard time about how your book on Junior Johnson went into six paintings. You mean they. Somebody actually bought that book of yours. You Might WanNa sit down for this okay. Okay John. Aaron who in mission control terms would probably be Dell earnhardt. Yeah he he was the man in mission control when he stepped foot in that room. He knew what he was doing. He was the Guy Right in mission control now. John was there and he brought a couple of copies from his collection of go fly the unsung heroes of Mission Control and put them up for auction for this fundraiser fundraiser. For the museum there and Wayland. Okay take a wild guess what these two books went for. Two thousand fifty cents five hundred ingred club dollars each each. Are you guys and I was like. I've got more copies at home. Also also you my shirt absolutely great five hundred dollars each so. You had six Britons and two of my books folks were auctioned for five hundred dollars eight. That was amazing and I was like are you kidding. I'd be saying that very same thing. Are You kitten hidden Steve. This week in our first segment Buckshot Jones but Jones. That's all I need to say racing right up there with tate and junior knee decking and Steve in our second segment. We're going to go back to the April Twenty Eighth Nineteen seventy seven issue issue of grand national. Say Now Steve. What is the significance of that twelve page paper? That is the first grand national seen reprinted ever ever ever. So we're GONNA talk a little bit about that issue how it got started and kind of some of the obstacles that it had to overcome to become what it became. Yeah absolutely absolutely by the way Steve. This week we have new Patriot support from Blake sorter another signed St Wade. Rookie card is headed headed out the door to a new owner. How about that? A lot going fast now supports on Patriot. Supporters on pay POW support. Four Q wear and also stave support Bryan Kehl because he was the very first person who really stepped up to the play and believed in us as a good platform to advertise his products. And I will always be appreciative of that. And also Steve Tried something a little bit different with the buckshot interview. You and I opened it up to Patriot supporters and ask them to come up with questions for Buckshot so during the interview. You're going to actually hear the voices of some of the the folks who keep this show going crewman through Patriots and got some great questions so to be involved in that all you have to do is support us on Patriots on five dollars. There's a month you'll receive one of these beautiful grand. National Saint Commemorative Issues from Darlington plus one classic issue of wants to Cup saying do ten dollars a month. You'll get the papers. I and the Steve Wade signed do not want to miss that so in all seriousness. Help us out on Patriot and help us to continue to be able to do this. podcast you can do that on. PATRIOTIC DOT com slash. The same vault podcast. Or if you'd prefer to just do a one time show of support for our our much you can do that at pow dot me slash the same podcast Buckshot to start off with. We have basically the same question from Chris. Clark and Justin Hall. Hey buckshot this. Is Chris Clark from that. Wonderful State of Virginia added question for you. My question is how did you obtain the nickname. Buckshot sounds cool with the story behind it. Hello this is Justin Hall from Hope Mills North Carolina near veal. My question for Buckshot is is book. Shot your real name and if so tell us where you got it from or if it's a nickname how did you get the name Buckshot. This question of all all these guys get asked that but I guess I was about two years old and me and my cousins were running around the House and somehow I slipped and hit side of the table. My head My grandfather picked me up thinking I was hurt and a not was already foreign on my head and I wouldn't cry. I guess or anything or want to do is get down and keep playing and he goes up boys toughest Buckshot and that's the name has stuck ever since then. I mean the only time I ever got called Roy is if I was in got got in trouble with my mom she always I or if it was another driver. And we'll get to the other driver now. I didn't realize it but I got on rice and reference and you had attempted to qualify for Bush's rices as far back as nineteen ninety-three when when you went to Martinsville and Hickory late in the year how did that day'll come about I'm thinking about. I'm trying to think what is the first time maybe it. It was all the way back it was Martin's Hickory. Dean queued both places. I don't know that's such a long time ago. We were just still running light models An opportunity come up to by Bush car so we did you know. Just try to attempt to to make a couple love him but It was a big learning curve. You know not just with the setups but the boss plot tires versus yeah. It's like with a bias by you could slide. You could feel it. The radio is like your spun out. Then you felt like you've got yes so that was just. I was a big change. I mean it was just a big change going from late models to Bush Tony Barclay was the best there was in the late models. And you know it was a learning curve for him because the cards are so much different but He got the hang of it pretty quick. And like I said with late models he was one of the best outlier. Now you go into school and driving at the same time or how did that work. I graduated at a college. Was it ninety three. Okay so yeah. I mean when I was from Georgia University of Georgia. Okay Bull Sir Billy Jones. Your Dad was was. I'm going to tell you. I mean he was one of my favorite people in sport. I mean he was behind you all the way good battering different. What was going on in the race track? What was it like having him behind? You couldn't ask for anything any better. I mean he was my biggest supporter but he was also like my biggest critic always told me exactly you. You know how it was but No matter what I always known you know he's always there he's always been that way Other people the friends they'll tell you they've ever needed something. No matter what Dad's always there I know that you were talking to David Pearson. At one time was he. We actually a consultant on the team or was that maybe too formal title and did he come along with ricky so to speak Really I think David just come over and help us out or help me out Because we're the shop was we were renting David Pearson shop in his house is right across the street So he would always come over there and he went to a couple of tracks with us for since it was. The first time I'd ever been there would try and show me the lawn. But most the Tom He'd always scary pretty good now. How would he scare you? Well on road course racing He was teaching me about the downshift. And we're a little S. ten truck and he's flying down the road and I'm thinking he's going to turn into the shop and he wanted he. He kept going straight but I was scared to death I was like there's no way we're going to make this turn but Darlington was probably the funniest I guess you could say spotting now. We went out in the van and he was like two inches off that wall and he was trying to show me that long so he rides around two laps. Come in he is. I used understand. You see where the line is. I'm like Hell No. I don't see relies. Adamy scared. Whatever close so he just sit? Dan Look at you and shake his head but Yeah he was always over. If I ever had questions He was good. It was great having them. But it was just fun on being around David because David like do pranks I did too in we were always doing. Yeah never noticed that now. I usually not not a six. The team is going to try and run a full schedule of four butchery scheduled for the first time. But you hit a pretty tough patch patch early in the season you D and q daytona and then you miss four races in a row and Atlanta Nashville Darlington in Bristol. was there ever a point in there where you I thought about maybe trying something else for a while and then coming back to the Bush series. No we would you would refer to earlier. I Guess Ninety Ninety Three Ninety Four. We tried to make a racer too. Yeah it was just. We needed a veteran. You know Cruzi it just so happened the lady that was doing. Rpr knew that. I guess it was alliance racing. Then we're rinky was with Dennis Setzer yeah and they were closing shop so oh dad got a meeting. Went and talked to Ricky and ninety five. We ran just a handful of races Ricky to see kind of what I was I was Gonna be like you know how this whole deal would work out. Everything was good so made a deal or we moved up to South Carolina. Rented David Shop. And then you know we were behind Because we didn't have the cars you know that Tom and I think that probably hurt more than anything is just constantly trying to pay play. Catch up But it was a big learning curve. I mean like I said before running late models and then jumping in you know Bush car it. It was a lot different but no never looked at it that I need to do something else. The first time I ever drove a car I knew right then. You you know what I wanted to do you go to Milwaukee Nineteen ninety-six. What do you remember about that weekend? Dick trickle I remember remember I guess he was running person. I was second. We're under caution it we're going down the backstretch because it's wanted to go and all of a sudden something came out of is window. Well we run. I think maybe a lap or two of caution comes out again. I told the guys on my man rob before that last restart a swimwear weird Dick. Do our cigarette like coffee. And I never seen that before. But Milwaukee I guess you know. We got spun early in the race so we were kind of off but that track was coming in apart. Yeah Yeah and for some reason. I don't remember why I started dropping my left. sods off down there counted middle three and four like off off the track almost dirt and make that car. Turn and it's just man. That car started to come alive then when it was the one I guess the last lap house I was trying to be too cautious and Mike McLaughlin almost beat us. Back to Long Dick trickle. You mentioned him. He spends off turn four with with three laps to go. What did you see their Really I didn't see anything at that time On no going back and watch the film on that. It was kind of scary that you know he's sitting there like that and that was a bad place someone come off but You know NASCAR and throw the cost and I I guess he got fired. Backup got rolling and you were trying to play pretty cautious because there when Dick spun off turn four you had a pretty good lead over my yes but that last lap man coming off turn four he just about Gotcha Gotcha. That's where I kind of learned that you know it. Don't matter I mean you should still keep running you know Howard. I'll say this you shouldn't back off like that. I mean just that one a little state you make and cost you easy to keep running. Just the exact same way you've been running you know watching some people will back off but We weren't really pushing it. That hard in the car is just super fast but I guess since I thought it was gonna be our first. Win was too cautious. A Guy's Fred Rosado here Thanks for taking my question Buckshot. Just WanNA throw out there. We're all big Buckshot Jones. Fans Man Monsieur out there week in and week out a but I before I get to my question I gotta ask is is this being recorded. Live in the studio. and Are you there with Rick with a pie in hand ready for payback. Because is I would love to see that footage man. We're still searching for the footage. One Rick got you back in the day and as soon as I find that footage I'm GONNA make sure it gets sent anybody anyhow. Let me get to my question. What was it like carrying that trophy home from Milwaukee for your first victory thanks again? But I'd say that's a good question. Shen Fred That was pretty exciting You know we flew back. I guess that night and like my mom dad sister. Several friends friends. Amman drove all the way up from Georgia to South Carolina. So we got off the plane you know they were there but It was just. It was a great deal on. You know it'd been hard hard when we first started And then to see where it Kinda paid off Very exciting I guess. Where's that trophy now at our farm in my bedroom at our farm my mom's house a Buckshot Rick Phillips from PA here? I was wondering if you had a favorite track or a particular style of racing. Thanks Rick Honestly. I like a lot of tracks. Talladega always liked it. I Love Bristol. Dover you know definitely Milwaukee New Hampshire also but now I mean it wasn't a short track or superspeedway Kinda like all of them You Know Darlington was always a light because it was so challenging that you know it's just you race the race track. You know you're not racing other people This race that race track so every track has its own unique thing about it. But there's not one track that I would say it was my favorite Talladega. Nineteen nineteen ninety seven. I did not know this until we talked about it before we started recording. You and base motor sports and Phil. Parsons is TAME. We're all at the same hotel. Is that correct Elton Sawyer. Stain out and Sawyer's team you tell me about that. I guess you know our hotels was there. We had someone that I guess. A lot of teams had people or a person that would book your rooms for you somehow. the same person we use. I Guess Base Motor Sports did Elton Sawyer Steam So we got an a different kind of hotel so to speak. But we were all just sitting there joking around around. I guess Bob Sutton Sawyer them. They had some fireworks. Might little bottle rockets and I was on the second floor and leaned over and threw a bottle rocket when I did. It went in Bob Sutton's Rome and his jacket was on the floor and it blew up and it kind of caught his jacket on art. So we're all kind of laughing about it and then that night. The alarm kept going off in Pontiac in Bali walked outside. I didn't see anybody but somebody you kept setting it all all night. We'll get up the next morning getting ready to head to the track and my cars out there on Jackson's what's his guys and went to the I guess Walmart Kmart four tires four tires so I'll walk out and they were still the room. I'm kind of just looking at the car. And they come out laughing. I'm white woman who put the Denton out of the car. They're like rainy. Rainy was one. You know after we'd set it all. He kept setting it off so like all right. Well we get to the race track. You know go into that. Driver's meeting and in rainy got up and talked was basically telling everybody. Hey you need to give and take it at the beginning of this race You know race at the end so it wasn't that far into the race. Rainy got in the back of US and spun is in Joe. NEMECHEK ended up hitting us. Well well me and Joe were in the garage Kinda repair in the cars and he come up he has men. You shouldn't take that. What are you talking about? He goes. I told my spotter rainy rainy driving counter erotic that early in the rice so yeah I mean it did upset me because I knew that he'd hit me but I guess Joe saying something to and you you know we went out and try to make the best of the day at the end of the race he just come up with sodomy. You know we got together. You got together. What happened? He come up to the outside of me now. This is after after the checkered flag. Yeah you know I want to. I guess it was just seeing his car and him coming up like that I because I was still upset about it so got into the back of them but then you know what county really take me off as we went in the hauler NASCAR Holler at. He said he'd never touch me. Then I like the back of my car is black. There's no blue on it back there. I said your car is blue. And there's blue all under the bumper. They still said you know he didn't hit me and it was just you know. I think people certain drivers have robberies. I don't think there's something everything always starts out there on the track game for some reason it started with me and him got to ask Gordon Randy in NASCAR hauler deduct really said they. Did I come out with a mark on me. You're not saying that Radio Ajoy would stretch the truth. Wow I'm saying he stretching it a rotten if he said that you are not confirming. You're absolutely denying that happened One one thousand percent and all you gotTa do is Mike Helton was in there not forget who all's in their ass Mike because back then if you did that you know you were getting. Yeah yeah I mean I got bond for because might never asked me in that hall or you know. Did I hit him. He asked me what happened and I told him that you know. Hey It tore our car up you know rainy come up on the outside and main I was just trying to hold onto my car. Well he called me. I guess might call me Monday. It was Monday or Tuesday. He asked Drek question he goes. Did you hit rain right now. So if you're GONNA ask me your honest question I'll give you know saints. Yeah I did. I said that you didn't ask me that. In the hauler and he goes I know he is there was only one unofficial that saw it. There's no video. There's nothing I said. Well I don't care if anybody saw it if you ask me a question on this question I'm going to give you know science. And you you know. He got fined for that. They can now go back to something. I just remembered at Talladega when we were in NASCAR hauler. You're he said he never touched me. Okay I mean he said that he is. I just spun well when they interviewed him. He said that he got hit from behind. And he hit me right. So I recorded in a fedex that Mike Helton and said hey in the hauler or he told you he never touched me he walks out does interview and says hey he got hit from behind he hit me and then you know we had meeting. Rainy had Problems down the Road Spinach Bristol night rice that very same year again. What went down from your perspective? I'm the worst part of that night for as always been that you got on the back of you know Mike McLaughlin. Yeah you know and that was purely rice and I talked to Mike even talk crew chief. I guess that following Monday told me it's my fault. I made the mistake. Well rainy had had caught him road behind him. Couple outs and is Bristol. Is You know barely nudged them up the track. He didn't lose any positions except that one and in I guess. I'll nudge them. Turn to come off to well. We go down into comeback going down into one. He deliberately runs runs a sober. There's no Oh yeah. Yeah Yeah Yeah and you know I've had it. I mean that was ridiculous. Yeah you know I went after them. I know some people love it. Some people disagreed with it. But you gotta understand US always the heat of the moment and you know he already. Rectus at Talladega now Erectus Bristol. That was just something I could not let that go. Do you remember the noise of the Kreil because when you went up the track act between turns three and four. I was in press box and I don't guess I've ever heard a reaction from a crowd like that. I mean I think it's the crowd crowd there at Bristol. They know that it's going to be contact. They WANNA see contact like that but no I mean me here in or anything no okay right now. I don't know if you remember this but that afternoon before the race you and Kinda hung out in your Holler and we. I was basically trying to get out of the heat for a little while. But we hung out in your Holler and we were talking about this talking about that. You've had some run INS with other drivers and I think he'd been find a time or two before that and I told you at that point I said if you ever get fined again. You're gonNA owe me that same amount that night bucks that night you went after Andy you got fined five thousand dollars. Where's my money back up the only time I've gotten fawn? Was it Talladega with Randy. Okay Bob Grand in then got bond five grand from Bristol. Okay and you know you WANNA make it ten. That's fine with me. No but you know I don't remember you say that you know I would have to pay the same amount okay. So you're denying that yeah. I got a little forgetful there. I guess again the following year union rain to get into again. Nazareth was there ever a point where you and he tried to sit down and iron things out or did your dad ever say something to you. I Didn'- I mean. Yeah getting tore up cars. You know in you know that night. I mean we had a chance to win at Bristol. But it's you know it's also all the work your gals do the crew into go out there and just start destroying cars. No I mean but I guess it was after Bristol. I'm trying to win bill. France you know sat down really. Yeah he did and I think it was after Bristol Myers said look you know from now on it. There's a problem you need to come. Tell one of the officials and you know and we'll take care of it because I told them I don't WanNa keep wrecking or you know getting tore up cars and I don't remember all they were so much back then but basically me and randy were told that if we touch one another we will be parked for that race in the next race this if there was even if we just touched each other NASCAR I guess it had it that they weren't going to put up with it and they said if you're involved in the same wreck and Y'all touch let's each other. It's a multi car wreck your part. They're basically saying there will be no excuse. No nothing in you know opera. Get if that was before or after. I got into rainy at Nazareth and in all honesty when I got into him at Nazareth that was no retaliation that was nothing. Everybody got jumbled up and I think I think he ended up hitting Patty Maurice before I hit him so mike should know. It wasn't intentional and then I think there was one other time. He was running for James Finch at Charlotte. Me and him got together in out. I wouldn't do the James and I wouldn't do the rainy The only two times I've ever gone after Randy was Talladega and then Bristol any other Tom Tom No. I've never gone after to intentionally rekkem or anything. So did the two of you try to sit down and talk it out or did your dad say anything until you no never talked. I mean I guess it was so much been said and it has happened. I just was like HEY NASCAR tolleson awesome. Leave it alone. I guess the only time being rainy ever really talked and it wasn't about money and his issue is Adam got killed Real Ouden to the UP. Because I don't know if it was Rainey's team or who it was had like a like a dinner or something at their house. I remember where it was I guess it was that Friday night in Randy was there and you know we sat down. We were talking. I said May the only time I've ever thought maybe getting Outta Rayson. Listen because when Adam got killed I just never. You never imagine that's going to happen to you But to see that happened to Adam Adam yeah that that really tore me up. How close did you come to walking away? Real close Well let let me ask you this. How much of factor did that play when you did? Walk away. Because it wasn't too long after that that you didn't hire all not at all all it was just I guess you in that moment. You know seeing what happened to somebody You know whether it's Adam or any. I need driver but it makes you think I mean they're made me think but it was just that's the sport it was Kinda you can be out on the highway. And can you get killed. But I don't know I guess since it was one of the people you raced against. It made you kind of look at things it made me look at stuff a little bit. Different hey listeners. 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That's the important information from anywhere in the world would just a pushover but this products. We are to help bring you the scene ball podcast. We Accu- era just as proud to provide the most simple. I use inexpensive cloud maintenance solution on the market. Today we'd be honored to have you look at Q.. And see what we can do for your workplace now. Joy the rest of this week's podcast when you get wait a minute check us out at. Cms Dot com for slash seen. That's Cute W. A. R. E. C. M. S. dot com forward slash scene. She she wears a product of the CNS companies. QR maintain excellence. Well now tell me how did you am. Buckshot get started. How did you form the relationship? Well that's a very good question. We certainly didn't come from the same economic background. But I will say this the best I can figure. Is that billy cajones. His Dad was just flat out awesome. How respected his story so much because he hosted a dinner in Atlanta for several media members two two or three years in a row and it was just something to hear him tale? How hit basically built this very successful business after having started out literally as a ditch digger so he was a self made man and so are respected billy and then to interview Buckshot? There's no filter when it comes to bucks so anytime I sat down and talked to Buckshot and you knew there was gonna be good copy and then we started joking around and talking and and everything so and again I mean it wasn't like we hung out at each other's houses or anything like that but at the race track we had it pretty good working relationship. I've had a couple of relationship. I suspect I don't know how you feel. And then the two thousand Major League all-star Baseball game was held in Atlanta. And I went to billy and I asked asked him if he could possibly swing a couple of tickets for myself and my son who was a big baseball fan and it was kind of late notice. It was the day before the ball game not the best time and he did swing a couple of tickets and they were literally one row from the very top of the stadium. We were technically inside the stadium. So that was pretty cool Steve. I'll be honest with you. I don't know how appropriate it was but when we went by Billy's office to pick up the tickets he reached in his wallet and he gave my son who was eleven in years old at the time gave him one hundred dollars to spend at the ball game. Wow when he gave Richard that money Richard his eyes were as big around as Hubcap so that was pretty recall. That was pretty cool. So and then of course we've talked about the good times and the jokes that Buckshot dot com played on each other. So I I it was good times. It was good good times talking with Buckshot after racetrack. Nineteen ninety-six he won his first race at Milwaukee and not only does he win at Milwaukee in Wisconsin Johnson. He Beats Dick trickle to do it. That is doing something that is doing something because Dick trickle. There's no telling how many laps he had turned it that racetrack track or how many raises is one. Well I thought it was kind of funny because he had mentioned in this interview. He said that they were under caution. In buckshot was behind him and he couldn't believe he's is something came out of the window Dick's car he radioed his crew. And he said Guys I. I'm not sure but I think Dick. Nick is just on a cigarette out the window. I'm not a and that's exactly what happened and then with a couple of laps to go. Dick Dick trickle spun off. Turn forward wasn't any kind of contact or anything like that from Buckshot. Blame you just got in there kind of hot. And then he's trying to get turned around around and Steve Nascar did not throw a caution and he's backing up on the right track. He's pulling forward. He's almost in traffic. And then here comes Mike McLaughlin one after bucks and Buckshot at that point had a pretty healthy cushion overnight so he started to take it really easy and he just about gave away coming off. Turn four on the last lap to the checkered flag. I don't know that bucks beating by more than a few inches. Well the point point is he won the race and that was great. And I remember that. Darlene Patterson you remember this yeah. Darlene Patterson was kind of helping that team out kind of getting started and everything and and after he won at Milwaukee she brought Buckshot to introduce him to me and I guess that's how we met. Yeah so I'll tell you what Cigarette flying out of the car now with of course that is no surprise but a driver. Smoking in the car is unusual but his has happened as a matter of fact it's unusual but it's not unprecedented. Oh by any made. And as a matter of fact for all the years that David Pearson drove for the wood brothers yeah he was always seeing after a race on the cool down lap with a cigarette in his. Now have a dacre honor. They put a cigarette lighter in his car. David Pearson raced with the cigarette lighter winds at Milwaukee in nineteen ninety six and then in in nineteen ninety seven. I had talked to Randy letroy about the brush ups that he had with bucks hot so of course I had to get both sides perspective. You've and again found out something that I did not know not only did Randy and buckshot get together at Talladega. Nineteen ninety seven which kind on a triggered their feud. Their teams stayed at the same hotel that weekend. Oh my gosh. And let's just say they. Evidently gently had themselves a final time. Let's just say that bottle rockets were bottle. Rockets were involved and then when Buckshot came out of his hotel room to his car all four tires stolen off his car. Now he did not name Randy joys team as the culprit. He named Elton Sawyer or read it as the culprit. Now Ellen saw your here is a big NASCAR executive now. He's a straight laced buttoned of guy really and he steals the hubcaps off of. Somebody's car. No he doesn't steal the hubcaps. He steals the whole tire off the car. I'll tell you what what went on at that hotel. Not exactly the same thing having cool bears around the Pool uh-huh and then whatever happens with them. During the race happened Randy said that he punched Buckshot in the NASCAR Holler buckshot insisted in no uncertain terms that it did not happen. No way no how. I don't know that I wanNA take sides on that but I will say this like like I said when we talked about it in the Radio Ajoy interview. I just can't imagine randy not getting fined. Well you did look renders does your head's historic buckshot. Has His story. I find it Kinda hard to believe that Randy get away with a punch in the NASCAR Holler in front of NASCAR fail. That's kind of difficult for me to believe. Later that same year we go to Bristol and Buckshot and again our are in his hollered before the rice and we just talked we just shooting the breeze. You know I'm trying to stay cool and everything and so we talked for probably forty five minutes and during in that discussion I made the comment that if buckshot got fined again that he would say the same amount of money and Buckshot said. Okay yeah sure okay okay. And and that night he and Randy got into their scrape and bugs that was fined. Five thousand dollars so I want my money as you as you know. I didn't think no he has not paid me my money. So I will say this. Speaking of Bristol and my discussion with Buckshot is probably one one of the funnier things that happened between Buckshot. Not so as I'm coming out of the lounge transporter coming down the steps. I see buck shots. Pr Person Ersan Nicole Allen. She's standing there minding her own business. Just as as could be and I turned around to Buckshot. Narcan whisper said just follow me so so I start yelling at Buckshot. I will print anything I won't to about you. You said it. You can't take it back. So I'm going to write it. Buckshot just grin and he. He knew immediately what I was going to do. And he said give me your recorder. I'm GonNa take that tape smashing all the hell and so wait. Tore loose on each other and Nicole. Oh she came running back to the back of the transporter where we were standing and tried to get between us. Her eyes of of a her eyes were about to pop our as she goes bucks. What did you say it goes? It doesn't matter what I said. He can't printing dog. And all that. So that was pretty doggone funded. A dirty trick was just harmless fun and they did get into it at Talladega. They got into it Bristol. And then the following year they got into it at Nazareth breath and evidently NASCAR sat down with at least buckshot and said that if anything happened between the two of them again they would be parked and I think to be honest with. It was probably Tom for that property. So you know. That's not the first time NASCAR drivers down and told them to behave. You know yeah. I think that kind of thing happens quite a bit. When two drivers are going after each other they do get called to the NASCAR Holler to kind of get straightened out? I kind of remember Carl Edwards and Brad Keselowski. Yeah that was a big one. I think that they kind of had to step in. And Take Care of business. So and Tony Stewart just name somebody and speaking of Nazareth in nineteen ninety eight. I got one of my all time. Most colorful quotes ever from Buckshot. And like I said. He had no filter in that day he did not and this is what he said in the following issue of Winston Cup saying he said. I wish that sure as hell wouldn't happened. I don't need no shit. No feud started back between us if I was in. He Issues Hail. I'd probably be a little angry right now. The same thing's happened before war with me and him he knows. I don't want to start. No Shit I don't want to get started. Could you be yeah. So that's one of the reasons why I like talking to buck side. I got good copy from a listeners. Follow Brian Caleb on instagram and twitter at speedway screens and check out his inventory at speedway T S J dot oetzi Dot Com. We've talked many many times about the inventory that he has and again it is just outstanding ending. I enjoy just go on through the pages and saying what. He has a viable absolutely amazed in bringing back some of those memories. Yeah I remember that day I remember that race I remember remember that paint scheme and so forth so yeah. I think it's pretty cool as half the fun. I've looked at his inventory. And just like you say you see cars in paint schemes that. Bring everything back to you from that time beer so again follow. Brian Caleb on instagram and twitter at speedway screens and check out his inventory at speedway I T S J dot Ed Dot Com in Steve April Twenty Eighth Nineteen seventy seven issue of grand national. Saying you were at roanoke that top. Okay how did the idea Ford that paper I come about you know. It's kind of a very interesting story. Rob Grades is not from Alabama. But that's where he was when he and Gary mccreadie eighty teamed up to do accounting newspaper. I believe is a weekly paper. They were in notice of Alabama. And I think it was the cousy county press or something like that. They called it Greg Stumble upon the idea of doing a newspaper about NASCAR and Nascar alone in other other words. He wasn't going to mess with any other form of racing. Because none of that was popular in Alabama at all so his idea was to come out with the weekly Tate Nascar newspaper that is Alabama readers would love and that's how Grand National Scene Got Started Robbing Jerry we the only staff members at that newspaper taper. Yeah and when they stood up grand national seeing of course they didn't have any writer. They didn't have any photographer's what they did was make up the first. Is You almost entirely from presently provided by RJ Reynolds. And you can tell that from some shopping. We'll discuss that and just minute now. I have a trivia question for you. There were or seven driver photos on the cover. Yeah who were the seven drivers. Oh God I can't remember that I've got that issue by the way somewhere somewhere around there I'll take your stat Richard Petty. Wow that's a given Dan Pearson Yes Ko Jabre. Yes Darrell Waltrip no. You're wasn't on there. No Dick Brooks yes. I thought that and Three more county Dave. Marcus Bobby Allison and Buddy Becker. How about that all seven guys on Akot? Steve David. This is another question. I've always had the design of the paper. was something that we don't really see today. The paper came folded in half so that the front front cover was actually on the right hand side of what would today a the last page and of course the back page the back cover would be on the left hand side of the back page so then when you unfolded the paper and opened up you had what amounted to another front page. What was the reasoning? Ask for that kind of design. was there one. I don't know it was the reason for it. I'm guessing that has something to do with Using much papers you can took good advantage so you can create more. Shall we say hoppy by folding it as it was then you could just loan. That's what would have been normal back page now as to you know places for more material than would have so I'm guessing that's one of the reasons for it and it stayed that way through. I believe mid nineteen eighty two when it switched to the more standard landlord format that we became familiar with now. You've talked on the show. So in the past about watching rob in the Talladega infield selling the newspapers for quarter each that being said. How hard was it in those early days to keep? Keep the paper afloat all. I'm sure it's very hard because I'm not sure that rob was involved any kind of mailing at all back then. I think that was just starting up. Form So to keep the paper. Afloat had to be very difficult and about the only way he could do. It was direct sales and obviously the most logical place for him to go to conduct direct sales. Was it Dalla. Data the track right nearby in the neighborhood that had to be a very very difficult corrode for him to fall. I don't honestly know how he survived with that newspaper. Even one year as a matter of fact I remember talking with some guys is actor watching rob you know. Try To pedalos papers in the Infield Talladega and we all said you know he's not GonNa make there's no way he's GonNa make for years later. I was working for him. Do you have any idea how the name of Rob's column came about grits and Chitlins. No I don't think I wanted I tell you know and I think that speaks to. How unbel- The beginnings were there? And I think they were basically kind of you know they will. I'm fine by the seat of their pants. And those a little bit but rob is barred enough to know that to place it he had to get started. was there in Alabama okay. I think that's one in reason. Why Gall's Gone Chris? Chitlins one of the flavor of where he was working being kept into into the newspaper and again the best thing you ever did was send that paper around Nascar and grand national racing. Because he didn't have to get involved with any other form. Tom motorsports by doing that. I think by keeping the paper as a grand national NASCAR. Paper was the seed to his success. Well I think the efforts were more focused. Certainly add to be and I mentioned the grits and gentleman's column. I don't know exactly when it changed but as the paper became more For lack of better term professional the name of that column evolved into Saint on the circuit which then became the name of our breaking news. Sex Right I think this issue is so it's quite it's just because this issue carried coverage of the the spring races at Martinsville expert Darlington and Bristol. I mean they crammed a lot of press releases into this newspaper. Kill Yarbrough one. One at North Wilkes Borough on March twenty seventh his thirty eighth birthday actually his thirty eighth birthday. And in this very short story Robin. She'll she'll connect the CITICORP the race award for finishing fifteenth forty six laps down and it was the second and final star of Robin's career came back to Martinsville the following spring but failed to qualify. So Robin Give us a call. We'd love to talk to you. See what happened to you. And then day W one at Darlington on April third his fourth career victory but his first on a track of more than a mile in length Darrelle was running in third place behind leader Bobby Allison and David Pearson. When a tire blew on Dick Brooks's lap car coming out turn four? He tried making it to the end on his inner liner. But they got hit by. J D mcduffie. Bobby Allison who is driving in relief of his brother. Donnie Bob with a little bit in water from Brooks's Car David Pearson lifted off the throttle while. Dwi gunned it through the mess to take the lead behind him. Yeah Darrelle won the race and the race eventually ended under caution but not without some controversy as usual as usual in the late. Nineteen Seventies de eh. Bobby thought that. He'd Beaten Daryl to the yellow flag and then tried to wedge himself between day W and the pace car and Richard didn't know where things stood good and he kept the front of his car. Rot on DWI's rear bumper. I saw that I was down there at the time and I saw that. Nothing the press box. We did not know what that Acourt Bobby was trying to do. It was just mystifying. We've found out later. Of course it. He thought he had beaten Daryl to yell. That was quite a sight to see. God trying to nudge his way guard. They were evidently bumping and banging a little bit and give each other a little bit of sign language but Dwi. I dig it credit for the win and then on April seventeenth at Bristol. Kill Yarbrough lay it all but five lap not at that time with short-track Good Ni- whipped. I saw him wear race by seven laps. There can you imagine the social media media outrage. That would have and then finally Kale Yarbrough won a rain shortened race at Martinsville on April the twenty forth. What I found to be interesting was just a how kind of jumbled up in the paper it was? I mean it certainly wouldn't in chronological order. Martinsville coverage began on page three which I can understand because it was the most current and the freshest news then North Wilkes borough followed on page four and that consisted of just eight paragraphs and not a single quote. Then Darlington was on page. Five in was little bit longer but like North Lewisburg didn't have a single quote and then stole was kind of buried on page nine and again there were no quote so these were basically pressuring or yeah. That's all they were. That's all that rob and Gary could manage. That had no staff and they certainly were not in any position today. Cleared Angels to these raises. There were news items in this issue on nationals. National's Cup races. Being carried live worldwide on something called the Nashville sound of auto racing network as well as armed forces this is radio and then Dover was going to carry closed-circuit color TV and it's air conditioned backstretch grandstand now. I thought it was just strange. That that love color TV close circuit TV was news back then. Well let's protest where you take everything you can get your hands on. And then finally there was an atom in this issue about Elizabeth Taylor going to serve as the Grand Marshal at Charlotte Rich. She did did and Steve. The only real feature in this issue was on Janet Guthrie and it didn't have byline but it was a huge store. It was another long press. Priceless is what it was. Was it really. Yeah absolutely yeah. It was a long press releases. What was and if I'm not mistaken? I think it was put out by Charlotte. Motor the speedway through Huffy Wheeler last question. Steve Do you remember the very first issue coming out. What I do? Remember is getting a copy of it and looking at over and I'll be very honest with you It didn't impress Fay because as we have said several times it was a mixture of Presley's his and mugshots provided by Winston. That's pretty much. It was but later when the paper started pick up steam and pick up a something of a staff and actually covering the races. I got more impressed with what was going on. Because this paper slowly but surely and steadily was growing and having more influence on Nascar fans and I think for it to come to VAT point from where it started with you and I've seen that issue I mean come on we. We laugh no question it is quite but to it comes from that to appoint four or five years later when it was having letters to the editors and mailing out copies and all that sort of thing is there's really remarkable. Do you have any idea. How many issues they printed of that no I sure don't it couldn't have been many? I would venture a guess. It wouldn't have been much more more than a couple of thousand if you're right. It is kind of code to be able to say that I own the why would have to be very very few that survive to this day. This is Andy Petri. And you're listening into the scene vault podcast all right. I'll concede you won the championship in this cockamamie system. said it I didn't. Let's go point style. Tell me the points differences between the O Winston Cup points and even the new point sister who went and I listen. You're the one that didn't WanNa do the Winston Cup standings okay I. I'm just trying to save face but it was kinda thrown on your little bit. Had Eh current points you lead at the end about thirty six points and in the Wednesday Cup standings Europe by fifty seven points. So you win twice okay. Here's the deal. I will go to the Nascar Hall of fame at your display. Play and hand out newspapers. All right okay. Come up with something here. Because you are the champion under the playoff system where basically winner-takes-all. Yeah okay okay now we gotta do something for you. We've got to do something listeners. To okay here's how we take care of them. Come on down to the raceway. GRRRRRREAT agree all. I knew they'd being out some way. Somehow I'm going to get raceway grill meal out of this. So how about we just do that. How `Bout we come up with a deal at the raceway on you? The raceway grow had to get into this. Yes sir. Yeah but I'm thinking we gotta go bigger. Her words were better. Cindy we bring in the raceway grew up. Let's also add to it. The folks at Darlington. raceway okay yeah dipped dipped speedway involved. Okay and that way I think. Put It on a bigger show to attract more fans and they can come get their free issue of the Commemorative Darlington. Seen from me about Kerry Dennis. Are you listening coming for you buddy