22 Burst results for "Dark Tower"
"dark tower" Discussed on Two Guys to the Dark Tower Came: A Podcast about Stephen King and His Books
"Everything were a little bit frustrating because it told me as a viewer that the people who created this movie where you ge- fans stephen king works this books. The movies that have been adapted from them the whole thing so the all those little nods are the wink. Wink nudge. nudge is to me. The fellow king. Superfan say we're on the same team. Now here's a big piece of shit movie you're welcome and if you're that much of a fan how would you like. Did you do this. And it doesn't but it doesn't do good for the the new viewer either. Because then you have a. Why are they cutting away to a woman. Walking saint bernard is that important. Like if he didn't know that. Oh yeah there is a movie and a book that came out thirty five years ago that dealt with the saint bernard killing things. It doesn't make a good movie. I mean i could write a script that has references all sorts of stuff. That doesn't mean it's good. It just makes references. I was a little frustrated with while. I appreciated the nod to book too. The whole use of modern medicine cure woolens infection and got to drink soda for the first time. All that none of the things that we saw happen that were just so wonderful and fun in book to roland drinking pepsi for the first time in having this incredible russia sugar interests alba's awesome actor but all he said was what is this. It's sweet come on you know. Act like somebody just shot you full fifty thousand volts or something you know like end how fun with it smile for the one time in the whole movie and also i really missed the integration of really important characters like eddie and susannah eddie was the one who killed rolled eddie was the one who nursed him back to health over a long period of time and distilling that down to three and a half minutes in one dose of pills with a different character. I felt was a disservice to any a disservice to the growth that roland experiences along the way. I'm glad you didn't have to lose his fingers in gang to get that infection. But maybe that will happen in the sequel. Not sure if a sequels forthcoming i was. I was about to transition to that. So where do they go from here. I mean do you think that this movie kills the franchise. I know that they're still talk of potentially a tv series that would focus on rowland's youth and how he became a gunslinger. But do you have any desire to see any of that. I do. But i don't know if i'd wanna see it or by one to stay in the hands of the people who made this movie that fair way to answer that gay i think that is i think at this point. You're better off starting from scratch and pretending like this movie didn't exist and if you're going to use these characters just do it with what you probably should have done in the first place which is prestige type tv series. Like game of thrones or breaking bad or something and put it together that way where you can have that plan and i think that's the other pieces that didn't seem like there is a plan. I know when this project was originally announced many years ago there was. This thought that there would be a movie leading into a tv series leading into potentially another movie or or something along those lines but the way that this movie seems to come together. It was very much going to be like. Okay we have to make this movie and it has to standalone because we're not sure what's gonna happen and if they knew for a fact like oh. We're going to get a tv series. I think they could have been both less rushed in this movie and more deliberate in what they were trying to do what they are trying to set up but as it is now at did very much seem like hey we just need to get to a conclusion of some sort and so let's rush through this and get to a what should be somewhat satisfying conclusion where something blows up at the end and the good guys win the things that were good. Were you saw the trailer like the way he loaded guns like sad to say that the trailer had given me a little bit of hope despite the pre-production noise around how bad things were going and the re-shoots that were necessary in the fact that it was delayed so many times in the marketing campaign that seemed off. When i did see that trailer i saw some things in there that look like they could be decent but it just goes to prove that you could make good trailer out just about anything and yet not necessarily make good movie. That is disappointing because there were some good people involved here. And it's just a little bit of a letdown for me. Yeah i really didn't even like the way that the movie ended. So the movie ends with roland. Killing the man in black shooting him in the head with some crazy fancy gunslinging where he shoots his own bullet out of the air and shoots him with another bullet. Okay fine he shoots him in the head but the men in black is presented to us as this almost omnipotent magical creature who is impervious to rollins main weapon you know the the guns he catches i guess at least a couple times has kept the bullets that he's tried to shoot him with as i don't know mementos or perhaps just to insight into his nemesis but then the books were presented with a character that rolin cannot defeat. He is so much more powerful than roland. That wrong can't beat him yet. Rolling must beat him and the only reason why rolling achieves his goal is because the men in black is predestined to die. At this moment in time he exists in other places and times it seems kind of jumps all around and does as he needs to but at that moment on the golgotha talking to roland is when he is predetermined to end his life. That's how rolling wins the day. Not through use of his guns but through the forces of cau- right in the movie. It's just like yeah. I beat this unbeatable foe by through very straightforward means. I shot him in the face. The end movies over good guy got the bad guy role credits than what was the threat. What was the challenge. Why did he chase him for so long. Why didn't he just shoot them. Why didn't he just do the fancy shooting. The first time he went up against we spent way too much time talking about this movie. You could have watched a third of the movie and not like any of it constant listeners if you enjoyed the movie. I'm glad you enjoyed the movie. I hope you have a good time again. Everyone has their own opinions on how these things go. I know from my perspective. Even if i hadn't read the books i don't think that i would think this was a good movie primarily for the following reasons. There didn't seem to be any emotional connection. Between the main characters. The main protagonist of peace should have been roland instead of the boy because the boy was sort of a drag. The boy hasn't name names jay. his name is jay. Sean come on played by tom. Taylor but there's no connection between jake and roland. Jake is not a very interesting character. And then even just as a movie itself it did seem just to be generic sci-fi with a dark tower skin sort of pasted over it so even as a movie by itself. I don't think it stands very well. My wife and i have been watching a lot of mystery science theater here. It's not that far a leap from this movie. To some of the crappy sci fi movies. That joel the box make fun of. I'm sure this will be on the next episode of. How did this get made the flop house podcasts. But again if you liked it we'd love to hear your thoughts. We'd also like to hear your thoughts if you didn't like it..
"dark tower" Discussed on Two Guys to the Dark Tower Came: A Podcast about Stephen King and His Books
"I'll watch it just for that I'm a mcconnell. Hey fan to some extent. I'm not sure if the man in black is the part. He was born to play but he looks like he's going to be eating up some scenery here. I did say when we read the gunslinger that the one thing i liked about the the man in black characterization is he seems to be some sort of trickster and and to that extent makaay fits that seeing it screen though i. It's always hard to play a a jokey bad guy. I in this little bit of the trailer. It's hard to tell if that's gonna work or not. Yeah he doesn't seem to have any humor or mirth to his toes facial expressions. He seems to be ominous in menacing and angry in the trailer that might that might expand to a more nuanced portrayal in the the larger movie. But in this it just seems like a bad guy and you're gonna have to deal with me. It's like okay. That's not really the trickster tittering you know manipulator the man in black is and there's also that that's short scene of them like just battling it out like you know just having a an all out brawl shootout using magic against each other and stuff like that like when the ellen seen. They never actually physically confronted each other in the book. Now like so. This seems like a really big departure. And i don't know if that's good or that just supposedly makes for better movies. You know. It's a visual medium. So let's give you something visual to enjoy. But i like the fact that rolin spent an entire book chasing this character and when he finally catches him. It's not a knock down drag out confrontation. It's a all right. Let's talk because that's what this is really about. It's about you know you caught me. You earned that. So i'll share my information. And then they could have been had a knock-out drag-out thing but that wasn't the way it's supposed to go now I will say. I was a little disappointed. Not to see any sign of edi or odeta data susannah here at all We do look like we get a little bit of the roland fish out of water in new york city. There's a sort of a spinning time square shot of idris. Elba looking overwhelmed by the city but A little bit of the cliche but then again it is in new york. So it's like darrell. Hanan splash look at hubby's luck it's craziness the other sort of you. I think one thing that people were concerned about is this balance between. How do we introduce a beloved series to a bunch of readers. Who may have heard of stephen king but have no concept of the dark tower but then also how do we please the fans of the dark tower who are very knowledgeable. Well read bunch who've committed years to this series right and you know whether or not they'll be happy or not. I did see that. In an attempt to sort of maybe a little bit of fan servicing. There is early reference to the shining. it looks like in the psychiatrist office. There seems to be a picture of the hotel. And then luck. Yeah and then later on there's a reference to it with the penny wise. It looks like a rundown like an amusement park. Widening says pennywise pennywise in. There's a clowns hands of merging from the ground. Ominously like a like a zombie digging itself out of a grave or like jerry holding a bunch of balloons. Yeah or like. Carry coming out of the grave. Yeah exactly yeah. Hopefully this won't be hey. They're walking around new york city. And there is a fifty seven plymouth. Fury water driving by jake has a dog. a big saint bernard that he loves So we'll see we'll see how this goes. I mean what else do you want to say about it. I think you know. I had not watched there had been previously released trailer late in two thousand sixteen that i think had a bunch of unfinished special effects and the overall impression that i had heard from people who watched it was. Oh my god. This looks horrible. I did watch and it was. Oh my god horrible in thinking back on it. I think they were. There was the scene when jake is looking at the wall of drawings. There's the scene his in the psychiatrist's office and seen when jake was looking through one of those magic portals. That appear okay. Those are the only things that had anything in common with what was in the real trailer ochre and there was obviously none of the finnish special effects. None of the music and you could barely hear any of the dialogue. That was in the seat so it definitely gave the movie a bad you know. Look and feel that. Not just because it was unfinished. But because it just didn't make any sense just like random images which was probably just cobbled together by some bootlegger or group of bootleggers. That right now found some footage here and there and just jammed it together in two minutes and said hey look. It's the trailer enjoy. Well i will say that this you know so. I had this bar sort of set low for me. I mean i'm going to go see this opening weekend. It looks decent enough to me. It does look like perhaps maybe this was that this looks like a somewhat typical hollywood action movie with almost the dark tower skin lead over it as opposed to a dark tower movie but i will give it the benefit of the doubt and try to read through book five by the time. The movie opens so if they're are already spoilers in it i'm somewhat caught up. Yeah i mean we try not to spend too much time comparing the dark tower. To game of thrones series. But i think one of the things that's great about a song of ice and fire. Books is that dr martin turns genre in convention on its head often and regularly and it makes you come to that that content with fresh eyes forces you to do that and i think king did that too. Large extent is well he took genres and blended them in ways. That guide never seen before. I'd never encountered before and i think that that's true for most of the fans of the series is that we we haven't really seen western plus sifi plus fantasy horror role in one bunch of books and king mix it work very well so i would hope that the movie would carry some of that ford and be a typical. You know sort of surprise us in how it handles convention how it handles genre and how it handles cliche and unfortunately the trailer makes it look like it kind of skews more towards the the every day and then i'd like and i understand the movie distribution company has tickets to sell so they've gotta make it as appealing as possible to the white amount of audience. So i mean it is sony pictures. They'll probably just rebooted every two years like they did with spider man until marvel takes over. Oh zemi there we go all right. Well we would love to hear back from our listeners to hear what they think of the trailer and the movie feel free to email us. Tweet us get to us on facebook because You know we're excited here from others. So i think that that is all for this episode of two guys to the dark tower came. Thanks jay. thank you links. To all of our contact information is available in the show notes will also have a link to the trailer. Somehow you've made it all the way through this without actually watching it. You can make email us at two guys. Dark tower at gmail.com you can also find us on facebook at facebook dot slash two guys dark tower and our twitter handle is act two guys dark tower. If you like the show please rate us on itunes. Or as it's known now apple podcasts. So for j rousseau. I'm sean mccur. Thanks for listening..
"dark tower" Discussed on Two Guys to the Dark Tower Came: A Podcast about Stephen King and His Books
"You can also email us at two guys dark tower at gmail.com in this bonus episode. We'll discuss the dark tower trailer. Let's start the show after months of waiting here. It is j. the new dark tower trailer. This will be a movie coming out. August fourth two thousand. Seventeen starring idris elba as rolling gunslinger. Matthew mcconaughey as the man. In black. And tom taylor as jake chambers and you and i have just watched the trailer that was released and we're going to give a little bit of thought on it in this special bonus episode. I was excited to see right at the very beginning a trailer for the trailer that we are just about to see as they showed about fifteen seconds of. Hey here comes the trailer for the dark tower trailer that you're just about to watch in fifteen seconds so that was how we started off this trailer. But that's not where our thoughts end on this. It would have been nice to see a teaser. i guess. If you're gonna put a teaser. Trailer maybe i dunno a month ago. Two months ago six months ago getting it fifteen seconds before we watch the actual trailer. I guess that will have to do it. Built up excitement it. Guess it worked a little bit. The sony. marketing machine inaction all right. So i'm gonna give sort of my overall initial thoughts on the trailer and then jay. You're more than welcome to chime in and give yours My first thoughts were loud. This looks like a movie of some sort that may be related to the dark tower in some way but having only read the first two books. There's a lot in there that is yet to be familiar to me. And maybe it'll be revealed in later books but they seem to be packing a lot in this first initial two hour movie. Yeah Because you haven't read beyond the beginning of books three. You definitely wouldn't recognize some of the things that are alluded to in the trailer. But anybody who's read all the way through the entire dark tower series would only recognize a few settings in a few characters in maybe a few types of things that are going on. So i would say it looks to me at a glance that there's a lot of content obviously from the first book in the series the gunslinger. But i see a lot of book three in a lot of book. Five going okay in the trailer that means that for our our constant listeners who are going along at the pace of our show and they and they don't know what comes beyond book three at this point because that's where we are with our podcast in some ways. This movie might be a spoiler for the rest of the series then again it might be just drawing some inspiration from it and maybe it won't kind of grew in the story. We'll have to see how that goes but this is an interesting approach. It's not an adaptation of one book in the series and say let's come back for the sequels. Continue the story. This feels like let's draw elements from an entire series of books into a single movie. Yes and there is still talk even this week of the potential for dark tower television show. That would eventually come somewhere after this movie. So i'm not sure what sony's long-term plans are. The route is released a movie than go to the tv show or fits released the movie. Have a supplementary tv show and more movies. I think a lot of it depends on. Probably the success of of this movie obviously But it'll be interesting to see what what direction they want to go in if this is a success so the other thing. There's i think nikolai ourselves. Who's director had said previously that this tier point not only is this an adaptation of pieces of the book but even more of a continuation of the series itself. So that's may be like some entirely new story lines and characters who knows Now they're also seems to be some pieces in the trailer that even with my knowledge of the books thus far seemed to be different the fact that we seem it the beginning of this trailer to focus mostly on jake in the seems to be jake's journey from our world into rowlands world and his discovery of the gunslinger. I know for my reading of book. One that's really not the case on there also seems to be some earthquakes happening in his world. Her causing some strange things happening on those two pieces seemed a little out of place to me. Yeah they seem to be a little bit. Seems like the movie is taking the more conventional approach of making jake the audience surrogate and letting him guide us to and help us understand roland. Enrolls world and that makes sense but it's definitely not the way gunslinger was constructed. And so that that does make it feel like a major departure in how these books function and who the real main characters are jacob. Certainly an important character in the beginning of the story but he's also not in the story by the end of book one bright so i wouldn't call him about important of a character at least towards the beginning of of the the dark tower series so as far as like the earthquakes. Yeah it seems like whatever might over bad. Things might be happening to the tower that we see in some in the trailer. Those bad things are what is causing these earthquakes and in the books. The tower is starting to have problems in. That's what role this opening to fight back against a but the repercussions of the tower. And what might be happening to. It are more subtle and they caused things like roles role to move on. And it warps the passage of time in the passage of distance and compass directions as we talked about it great length episodes but it doesn't like causing immediate earthquake like that. It's not so obvious. And they're certainly not that they're those impacts don't seem to be so apparent in jake's world our world if that is the same place so i think again they're going for more visual thing like instead of like describing some sort of like been place that you can pass from one world to the next. It's like let's just make the whole city shake and scare everybody. It's a metaphor man. Yeah it's kind of ham-fisted metaphor. It's the typical we have to raise the stakes in every hollywood movie so that the destruction of earth is always the case if the bad guys not defeated so yeah Overall though there are some things that i did like i thought Idris elba is rolling. The gunslinger looks depart. Seems pretty cool him. Reciting the gunslingers creed there at the end and as he takes that wild shot was was pretty. Cool nifty He reloaded his guns in three different ways with some cgi cgi helped by throwing the bullets in the air and pulled his gun through. Itty rides is gun along the belt to loaded and then just sort of pours the bulletin at a third time so yeah as nonsensical as all of those things are. I still thought they were cooling. Still if that's what's.
School Shootings Drove Stephen King To Take 'Rage' Off The Shelves
"In this episode. We'll cover the bachmann book rage chapters one through twenty. Let's start the show high school senior. Charlie decker facing expulsion for salting. His chemistry teacher sets the contents of his locker on fire gets a pistol and returns to his algebra class or he kills the teacher and then a history teacher who comes to investigate holding the rest of the class degeorge decker reveals information about his troubled childhood and some of the other students begin to share their own secrets and feelings. That's quite the setup. sean. Yes so jay. This story rage was originally written at least started being written by king in one thousand nine hundred sixty six when he was a senior in high school and then he finished it in one thousand nine hundred seventy one and at that point it was titled getting it on Decker says that phrase multiple times throughout the section of the book king wanted to publish it like under his name right away but his publisher doubleday did want over saturate the market so this was the first case where they said all right. Well let's do it under a pseudonym and he submitted it as getting it on by guy pillsbury which is kings grandfather's name so that was going to be the original pseudonym he was going to use and there's a twitter user who just started following a couple of weeks ago named guy pillsbury so i thought that was a nice deep cut that is really deep. Cut yeah when he submitted his guy pillsbury. A number of people at the publishing house knew about king having a book called getting it odd and so the secret was already out. They pulled it and said okay and then he resubmitted as as richard bachman and submitted his with the new title rage and richard. Bachman i was because he had a richard stark book sitting on his desk and bachman turner overdrive was playing on the radio and so he was looking around. And there. you go richard bachman. Sorta like the Deficient the light bulb coming together to form the homer simpson logo number one. Lucky joe exactly so. This is actually his fourth published book. It came after kerry salem slot in the shining and just before the stand this was nineteen seventy seven it was published and then it was obviously republished in the bachman books in one thousand nine hundred eighty five. And if you're like my father you'll notice that this is not a book that is easy to come by nowadays. He was unable to find it when he was looking forward on. Different places and that is because after number of school shootings that had some tenuous ties to rage. There's at least one where the kid had a copy of the book his locker but some of the other ones may have referenced it or not king let the book go out of print in one thousand nine hundred ninety eight so all the other bachman books are now published as standalone novels. But this one is not in the forward to the bachmann book. Blaze king writes about rage. This is now out of print and a good thing. And if you go to the stephen king dot com website look up rage. No future printings will be made of this novel. At stevens request due to the sensitive nature of the content
A Review Of The Long Walk, Chapters 9-18
"The long walk continues with only sixty. Walkers remaining geared is determined to make it to freeport or he'll see his mother and girlfriend jan more walkers get their tickets and the boys continue their discussions as physical and mental exhaustion weigh on them eventually. The long walk enters massachusetts and only three boys remain gary mic varieties and stebens. Only one will be the last walker standing but even so at what price victory. Nice day were in this section of the book and one of the things we talked about last episode is how we were a little disappointed that there wasn't a lot more world building going on yeah King seemed to be very vague as to what sort of relived these characters were in boys going on. We got the sense that things weren't great but not all of the details and in this one. There's a lot more of that world building we're looking for. Yeah it definitely satisfied my craving for those details. I still don't know that it was enough for my my modern sensibilities if you will I wanted to know what was going on. Outside of the walk and king still doesn't really reveal that but he gives us just a little bit more of a taste. Oh those are so delicious. Yeah each one of them is pretty great. The fact there's now thirty first day of april. Yeah that was the first one in this section. I was like whoa and you know. We talked about the dark tower. There were times early on. We're like boy. That's a weird little editing mistake. At first i thought well maybe april thirty. One is an editing mistake but then there were a couple more came shortly thereafter. That you're like. Oh kings doing something here. Yeah yeah there were fifty one states. When i saw that my immediate question was what is that fifty for state. I mean it could be anything is is it. Puerto rico is his canada. I don't know like it could be so many things it could be half of. Mexico is the fifty first state. It's not really important to the story. But it would be kinda cool to have one of those jr token style maps or like the the dark tower style maps that shows the world of the long walk and the path that they walk. Yep and then you can see like now. There's this you know. East pennsylvania and west pennsylvania. Yeah you're not even thinking big enough jay. Maybe like the western eight states all disappeared or were destroyed and so then they picked up nine states that we don't have today and not not just one new one. What do you think of that. Yeah or maybe california finally broke into five pieces. Resold alaska back to the russians for for a net total of one game state. Yeah and cut off. Florida like bugs. Bunny does in that. Famous jif yup. Yeah there were other interesting facts. That that Apparently there were german air raids on the east coast of the united states. And there's clearly has been some kind of takeover. The major seems to be the figurehead leader or commander of this Of the united states. So i'm guessing some sort of military coup but somebody says in the old days before the change and the squads when they were still millionaires like basically went before before a lot of wealth was redistributed to who knows who knows in what way but clearly this is not the world that king lived through when he was writing this story. Right the most intriguing one was this idea that world war two was different in how it played out so there's talks about german raids on the east coast. That occurred that people were afraid of and then later on they talk about the provo governor who is a war hero. He led a raid on a german nuclear base in santiago in nineteen fifty three. So yeah this is definitely not the world that is just hey our world bit in the future. This is a total man in the high castle. Style alternate reality or maybe even a father callahan like slipping through alternate versions of of the universe or of the of the world making this whole story. Kind of dark tower finney.
"Welcome everyone. Did you guys to The Dark Tower came podcast where we discussed the characters connections and deeper meanings of Stephen King's magnum opus The Dark Tower. I'm Jay Rousseau home and I'm Sean Becker. You can email us at two guys Dark Tower to support the show visit us at patreon.com two guys walk in this episode will cover the stand book two chapters 53 to 56 month. Let's start the show set entirely in Boulder. This section has two running themes the first procedural and bureaucratic as the group tries to recreate a functioning Society after the apocalypse and the second dramatic as characters go through some emotional moments Nadine being rejected by Larry Harold wondering what his role in Boulder is until Thursday and seduces him for any worrying about her baby despise preparing to Head West and looming over all of it mother Abigail's still missing Sean. What did you think this chunk of the book? Well, gee, I'm glad you asked. As I've mentioned before I tend to be a quick reader and especially when I was reading Stephen King books when I was younger, I'd blow through them in.
"There. There is a lot of stuff that goes on, you know, in addition to the things you mentioned about, you know, keeping secrets and sending out spies. You've got somebody like Franny breaking into parents house. Yeah and snooping around. That's not something that a quote unquote good character should ever do because it's wrong but we understand why she's doing it and she almost succeeds in her mission to be verify her suspicions with hard evidence who would have been kind of crazy if she did clumsily break into Harold's house and then find his secret journal in its hiding place, right? But King spares us that that that leap. Yeah, but you're right there is a little bit of loosening of morals. I don't know if there's a way around that no, I think God That's the bad part of every government right? Especially what happens where it really I don't think caught me off-guard but when they were talking about sending Tom Cullen to be despised. Yeah and Nick who's closest to Tom comes up with these really good reasons why Tom might be the perfect spy person to send and I think it is Franny and and Sarah, it's of course the two women who vote against it right there. Like no, we don't want to send Tom. We don't think that that's right. That's that's a bridge too far for us is to send this message disabled man out to what could potentially be his death and after the vote happens, they both sort of say We want this to be a unanimous vote. We don't want it to look like we were in fighting even though the votes going to be secret. Let's change our votes or at least we're unanimous and you already get that sense of well, we're going to justify this in some way like even though we don't think it's right. Let's make sure we're going to justify it in a way so that we're all together on the same page and that's I think where you can start to get in trouble. Yeah, Sean. You want to talk about some Dark Tower thin he's I do in do.
"In every episode of this book, but let's talk about the ones we did find in this. Also just to add onto what you just said. Even though he had published two of the dark tower books by the time he redid this version of the stand. I don't think king had come to realize and certainly hadn't decided that. The Dark Tower was his Jupiter. Like the dark tower had not yet gained enough mass to start drawing all of his other stories and characters in world's into itself, so I think that anything he's we find are going to be sort of like special treats in. This book is the one big one. We're not going to talk about that yet, but we'll get to them and will cover them as we do, but I did find one that I have to assume was intentional. Okay, and this is you see in a printer that starkey is looking at about project blue that the contagion had escaped exactly on June thirteenth. Nineteen ninety. At two thirty seven. And Sixteen seconds. PM. Right okay. So in one of the ways that that is written out in the book. It's six colon one three colon. Colon zero two colon thirty seven colon one six. If you, add up all those numbers you get nineteen colon nineteen. I Win I win darts. ARTHA is right there. I do think that that's a winter, yes. I mean did king needs to make June thirteenth in one thousand, nine, ninety, probably not, but since he was changing the year that the story takes place in nineteen ninety. He just changed the month date enough to get nineteen right. Did he did he do this on purpose. You gotta think so right, or was this one of those random like I keep seeing nineteen in my work too often. I think it's a special number to me and I'll just keep doing it I. Dunno I dunno definite though yet. So one of the epigraph to the First Section is by the poet named. Edward Dorn Michael Brother. He just didn't play Klingon ever. And the quote is we need help. The poet reckoned. And this line is from an epic poem called. Wait for J. The gunslinger. All. So I don't know how we missed this, but supposedly that I i. read somewhere on the Internet that. king is a big fan of Edward doorns to Gunslinger, and it is the reason that he called the first book gunslinger because he had this epic poem in mind. Wow Now I. DIG IT I. Dig a too so it's right there in the first. First few you win. Dark Tower Fini's Annella. Maybe I will say what to see how this plays out throughout the rest of the of the story because I'm not sure. If I totally understand this line, we need help. The poet reckoned. So. We'll have to see what that means. Yes, indeed. All right, so here's a section where we talk about changes..
"Overwrought writings interesting. You'd like to think that but I think kings fans actually did not like this book quite as much as his other stuff because it was such a departure from the horror but publishers weekly continue surprisingly is is a gentle story. Despite violence corn is standard vulgarity because king is ingeniously interposed himself between reader narrative. As if he were telling the tale allowed with a soothing cadence particularly audible in the evocative prose qurqus. Who We've mentioned before says this is an adventure. Fantasy for young adults or variable prepubescent among kings most accomplished works some of King's smoothest writing at slickest effects with the usual super cosmic scale down to reasonably familiar villainy. Though the sales won't assumes WILL BE SUPER COSMIC AGAIN. I think over positive on the stuff I never hear. The eyes of the Dragon talked about his amongst king's most accomplish works. I think it's totally left out of the story. And I have talked to some king fans who are not even aware of this book's existence it seems to have been lost over the last thirty five years and I wouldn't rate it as one of his most accomplished works either. No but but he did some very specific things very deliberately and succeeded at all of them from a craftsmanship perspective. This is I think. One of one of his most successful turns at at the wheel but as far as being like an overall like better story than some of the other things he's done or have more quality than some of the things he's done it's up there but it's not at the top now and finally people magazine who. I don't think we've ever used people before review but they have another positive. What many are likely to be held hostage by this delightful fairytale drag it as a gentle fable related temper tones by knowing narrator and they get right to the heart of the matter what their readers are interested in this quote yet dragged is not just a children's book how many children's books mentioned flaccid penises as this does on its third page drag. It is a fully realized novel capable of captivating readers of all ages while it represents a departure for king it is not completely divorced from the rest of his work dragging contains one of his most familiar themes that evil is cyclical and while it can be vanquished it never really vanishes with this compelling tale from another time genre king proves he is as versatile as he is prolific at again that idea that evil cyclical comes back again and again yup most notably in The dark tower itself. Is it wraps itself up with that? Holy Cyclical Nature. Whether or not good will ever top. We don't know right exactly so jade. I think that leads to the conclusion of this book. What are your overall thoughts allows? I was just kind of hinting at a moment ago. I think this is a really amazing book. I enjoyed it a lot. It took me a little while to sorta warm up to it and I think it was because of king style that he was writing it with this voice of the narrator as one of the reviews put it he was putting himself between the narrator and the reader almost directly and it took me a little bit of time to grow accustomed to that but once I had and once I kind of saw what he was doing. I was able to fully embrace that and move forward with the story and really really enjoy it. I am really glad we came back to visit this book for the podcast. I enjoyed reading it a lot. It is one of King's better stories for all of the craftsmanship that he put into that he was doing something different than he'd done before unusual in general and I think he pulled it off really really well. Yeah I would agree. I like what you said about the intricacies of how he put it all together the hallway. It ends with everything coming together nicely. That's something that really makes me happy. And this book really does shine a light on a lot of the themes that are in his other books that evil cyclical part. We talked about the Meta aspect of king sort of inserting himself into this book. But with such a light touch. I think that that's always whispered for the dark tower right like it's so heavy handed in the dark tower and again a lot of events changed in obviously his into with getting hit by the van. Almost dying like all that plays into it like it's so heavy handed there with king becoming a character where in here he's there but you can't see him but there's enough there to realize like oh he's a part of this but in an interesting way and obviously the other connections just between the characters of flag and the Kingdom of d'alene in how this all ties back into the dark tower. I think it really illuminates that book from a different perspective in. It's sad for me. That king really hasn't done other writing like this that he's not done. The sequel with Thomas and Dennis going off on their venture or something else. That's along the sort of fairy tale piece. I think the closest he's come is probably the wind through the keyhole which has a lot of these elements of storytelling and fantasy but with a lighter touch and not quite as horrific. But that whole fairytale feel to it. I think that that's probably the closest common. If you remember we really like that. Yeah I particularly enjoyed it so I think he might be missing an opportunity and getting back to that and one of the things that was great about winter keyhole was that it had a very specific style and structure that king decided. I'm GONNA write this nested story and how story inside story inside story. And that's what he built and he did it really really well. And that's I think the only time he's ever done that maybe not to that extent. I think yeah this is another example of King just deciding. I'M GONNA write a story with this structure in this mode and then execute on it perfectly just flexing his skills right. It's great stuff. Yep well hopefully you all enjoyed it as well and Had A chancery along with us. We had a good time and I hope you did as well. And if there's anything that we missed her your thoughts on it we'd love to hear from you so that's GonNa be all for this episode of two guys to the dark tower came. Thanks Jay. Thank you links to. All of our social media is available in the show notes. If you like to show please rate on apple podcasts to support the show visit Patriot. Dot Com slash. Two Guys Dark Tower next episode. Georgia's as we cover the dark tower related novella. Everything's eventual founded in the collection of the same title for J. Russo. I'm Sean. Maguire. Thanks for listening What sort of stuff do you have? Jay? A fun time was can't there is no fun time..
"Months. Yes definitely worth checking out so Check US out at Patriot dot com slash. Two guys dark tower to learn more. What's are a fun stuff? Do you have Jay my big fun stuff item is that I finally got an answer. To what Peters wrote would look like as a movie prop because there's a line that says flag waved a hand in front of his face dissipating the heat for a moment a rope not exactly but there was something something as Gossamer as Strand of spider web and yet bore his weight. This is when flag was looking into his seen crystal and checking out what Peter was currently up to or was about to do in the very near future and he could see Peter. Lowering himself down hand over hand like reverse Batman style but he couldn't see the wrote and so basically. That's the answer to my question from previous episode that I was wondering. Is the rope just really thin? Like shoelace or is it like so thin. It's like a spiderweb that you could. You could barely even see it. Apparently it's the spiderweb option. Yes I think that lends even more to the magical fantasy style of this story. I would agree with that. It's also probably why the rope broke. Yeah well there's that too. Yeah so I will say that for fun stuff. I just love all the pieces with the dog. Nail Res Dog. That's following the scent of Dennis to the castle and then gets the set of flag along the way like all those pieces from the dog's perspective just great as he sees this like electric blue smell that so strong that he's picked up from Dennis from his hideout in the abandoned house all the way back to the the castle and through the sewers. And it's just great and his whole the tall man and the girl and the affection he has for those characters. It's just brilliant. How King has just nailed that dog perspective is I would imagine it. Yeah and there's even a touch of kind of joked about earlier sort of some of always personality in this because the dog is given a level of agency. Were actually in the dog's head to be aware of what the ducks thinking and oil is a dog like creature who can talk right in. We are given many occasions when we are in the boys. I view of things and experiencing the story the way Roy is experiencing it. A lot of this reminded me of those passages in the dark tower. When we're right there with Roy and were figuring stuff out with Roy and he's saying is it ache is it. You know where's ache. You know. And he has a little bit more vocabulary than right. Then this dog. But it's still kind of like that. The boy the girl the you know kind of thing. So yeah there's a lot of early echoes to what would become oil and later later stories. Yeah I also wanted to mention his fun stuff just Randall. Flagg turning into Jack Torrance. At the end of this as he's just like storming around this castle with an axe. Just try to get to the kids that he wants to kill. It's totally seems to go insane. And he's knocking at doors and come out. Come out wherever you are you. Just get that sense of it that I could always see flag limping along dragging his foot is. He's coming after. Peter Yellen stop swinging the Bat. Wendy stop swinging the bat by final fun stuff for this book. Is the characters think of flag as some horrible? It and it is even capitalized. Of course this makes me think of pennywise and in it. The kids refer to him as it because he takes on a different form. Different horror to every character. It's whatever scares that person. The most is what they see in the movies and the TV adaptation. It is a clown a lot of the times because it gives us the audience something consistent to to wrap our minds around but in the book. It's always different. And so there is no defining shape form for this creature of fear and. I think it's a really good description of flag. Flag changes his form. He changes his name. He he changes how other people perceive him all the time to suit his needs. So in a sense he shares that in common with the creature. We know that flag is not the same creature because we know more about the dark tower universe than King even knew when he wrote this book but I thought it was an interesting parallel to other works by King and other creatures that King has terrorized. Us is fans with many years. Yes these two books are really close in Time. Publication date wise. So we'll crossover action there all right. Well let's get into our final thoughts on the book. J. Like we normally do leaders on good reads this book. Three point nine three stars which is very high and libraries Three point eight one star so overall high rankings. I was struck though by the contemporary reviews of this book and just how overwhelmingly positive they were. Here's a little something from New York Times. They call it a appellate cooed fairy tale. This new work is more elegant than any other novel. Mr King has written so far. He has used the full authority of his talent. As a yarn spinner to create the atmosphere of a made up bedtime story the narrative address is that of a parent to a child which you and I had talked about before. How has that feeling? I think we called a grandparent grandchild but the same idea yep. They continued the cadence of the book. Lens it to reading aloud and the narrative has the intimate goofiness of extemporaneous story told to a child which again we're right on here. Finally they say. The eyes of the Dragon also addresses the child within the adult to the author's credit. It is written so simply and so honestly that the pros is only rarely sloppier jar which I think they really nailed it here. I mean this is a lot of what we are saying about how. This book feels to us as the reader for sure. Publishers Weekly said Kings Legion of fans are likely to find that a restrained maturity marks. The differences between the stylish successful effort at fantasy is earlier sometimes overwrought writings interesting. You'd like to think that but I think kings fans actually did not like this book quite as much as his other stuff because it was such a departure from.
'Dark Towers' Chases Scandal-Ridden Institution Deutsche Bank
"David ensor joins us now. His new book is called Dark Towers. Deutsche Bank Donald Trump an epic tale of destruction it debuts this week at number two on the New York Times bestseller list and I also have to disclose that. David is my cousin in law and he eats all the pie Thanksgiving about his nonetheless. Welcome here on the PODCAST. Lobo I didn't know what you're going to get that person quickly. Yeah important. Why people to know Dave? Thanks for being here. That's revenue so we're not GonNa talk about that crime. We're GONNA talk about some other ones. This is a book about deutchebanks. Started off with reporting that you did beginning around two thousand fourteen. I was in London working at the time of the Wall Street Journal and I'd already been kind of obsessing about Deutsche Bank. Ps This is you know. One of the biggest banks in the world one of the most troubled institutions and involved is either at or near the center of just about every financial scandal under the Sun and then in January twenty fourteen one of the most senior executives at the bank and kind of the right hand man to the CEO at the time was found hanging in his apartment in lended. Who is he his name is? Bill Broke Smith and he was a guy who had worked at the bank on and off for almost twenty years and he had he was an expert in risk management in an expert in derivatives and he but more important he was the guy who turned to as kind of the ethical compass of the bank he was. He was known informally as the conscience of the place. He was someone who could say no. He was pretty conservative and he was not quite as hungry for short-term profits as most of his colleagues were and it's something that happened at the bank immediately precede his suicide and did he leave a suicide note like do. We know that this was tied to his work. Well I mean it's really hard and I think probably dangerous to try to make in light statement about why someone does something like this but he did leave a bunch of suicide notes including one to with his longtime colleague onto Jane who at the time was the CO CEO of the Bank. And so one thing that became clear over the years a report and I did and working to talk to his many friends and family members and former colleagues as I could was that. There's no doubt that at the time of his death. Deutsche Bank was very much on his mind in someone he knew his on his mind in a not in a good way he was very upset about some of the things that had transpired while he was there are before we get into some of the things that that he personally saw during the I guess the Early Twenty First Century you say that as of two thousand fourteen it was well established that Deutsche Bank was kind of troubled scandal-ridden institution I mean. How far does that date back? Well the bank is one hundred fifty years old this year. Happy Birthday Deutsche Bank and for the first several decades of its existence. This is just a pretty provincial. German and European lender helping big industrial companies like Siemens spread their wings internationally. But when the Nazis came to power in Germany in the thirties Deutsche Bank became a central part of their attempt to take over the world and this is not attempt to take the Nazi attempted takeover. Was that different from what other German banking institutions did. At the time Deutsche Bank was by far the biggest German bank. A lot of German companies to survive did what it took to arrive in that area which was helping the Nazis. But there's been an attempt by the bank and some historians I think in recent decades to kind of sanitize that basic fact by saying well. Everyone was doing it and that was just the way the world works and we can look back at this period now and say that Deutsche Bank was party to genocide. Wow most people who don't work in finance and don't report on finance look at these banks. They all kind of seem interchangeable and interchangeably bad. That every one of them or many of them have had one terrible scandal or another or many in recent years is a bank especially at I mean. Is there something about its culture? There are a lot of things that make it a specially bad. I mean first of all wallets true that just about every bank under the Sun has been attached to one or more financial scandals over the years. Don't you think really has been involved in a disproportionate number and it's faced disproportionate penalties. As a result of that you can look at that in terms of the number of criminal charges. The bank has faced around the world or the amount in fines that it's racked up the to me. The better measure of its destructive capacity is the havoc wreaked around the world. And you can really look in. Probably almost every continent of the world in see some major in pretty pretty bad scandal to the bank was involved with the cause real harm whether it's destroying companies or really messing up economies or being involved in major bribery or corruption scandals laundering money violating sanctions. Deutsche Bank is blamed by the families of some American soldiers for their deaths in Iraq because the bank was illegally funding Iranian terrorists. So you can say that about some things but you can't say about every bank that every single scandal comes right back to their doorstep in that unfortunately is the case. Allow the time with deutchebanks one of the things that differentiates Deutsche Bank for many other banks is that there is no villain at the top. They have no. Ceo Unlike many other banks is that part of the problem that there isn't one person who has held accountable. Well it actually used to be that way these days for the past fifteen years or so they have had a CEO. In fact you can trace the banks last series of problems going back to the mid two thousand to the decision to place increasing power in this unitary see It's gotten worse when they've had someone. Yeah although it got worse under Joe Ackerman who is the longtime CEO from two thousand to two thousand twelve. And he was the one who converted the organizational structure of the bank from being this kind of collaborative committee led approach to being one where there's an American style. Ceo At the top of the bank and Ackerman very shortly upon arriving as CEO of the bank made a very fateful decision which was that he decided that within a very short period of time a couple of years deutchebanks prophets needed to go up about five hundred percent and looking backwards. It doesn't seem that surprise and the consequences that followed that at the time. This marked a really transformational change within the bank. And it went from being an institution that looked around and kind of saw itself as serving multiple constituencies whether shareholders or customers employees or the communities. In which an operator and it went from doing that to having a single minded focus and obsession on maximising short-term profits basically consequences. Be Damned and when you talk about the recent crimes of DEUTCHEBANKS and we're not even getting to Donald Trump who is in your subtitle him later. Did most of those things manipulating markets helping terrorists regimes defrauding regulators. Did most of this take place during that two thousand and two to two thousand twelve period when he was the CEO will the got started. Then and that was Ackerman's decision to prioritize short-term profits above all else was the catalyst for all sorts of bad behavior within the bank and it wasn't just the people were rushing to make money at any cost and although they were doing that it was also that the bank at that moment because it was so obsessed with meeting quarterly profit targets. It stopped investing in things that cost money. For example they stop investing in technology. And so the banks internal computer systems became just this. Archaic jumbled mess and that sounds kind of technical and maybe not that important but the reality is immense that Deutsche Bank. If you if you were asked to say Deutsche Bank what how much money have you lent to say Russia? There's no easy way to answer that you can just type it into a computer. None of these computer systems are talking to each other. And that's a pretty scary thing for bank. And they also completely failed to invest in compliance an anti money laundering staff. And because those are things that cost money they're not going to produce revenue and in fact they they do the opposite prison revenue. They take away revenue as their job. If they're doing it properly is to say no to potentially problematic and potentially very lucrative transactions this focus on quarterly profits and profit above all else. Is that very different from what other banks were doing. During this period Deutsche Bank went from
"Maybe eaters going to get a poster Yeah it's going to get the Rock Hammer and chisel his way out and he's GonNa Dole. There's that's right this tower but of course the Finney part of this that I think you're alluding to is that this is a tower. It's not it's not a dark tower. It is is a this is a symbolic tower. For the Kingdom of d'alene they hold grand ceremonies at. Its foot. They it's it's a centerpiece to their skyline. It's something that they celebrate not fear and apparently it's also high-class exclusive prison. But it's the club Fed of d'alene when Peter makes his ascent up the staircase. It's a solemn moment for him and he is wise enough and aware enough at that moment that he he gives it the gravity of of that deserves. He kind of like counts. Every step in each step is meaningful for him and it is much like when Roland finally reached and climbed to the top of the dark tower. Is that at one point when I think it was just when Peter was arrested and everybody in d'alene was sort of like confused and upset that outside. The wind screamed and gobbled old wives cringed in their beds and slept poorly and told their husbands that. Rian on the dark witch of the coups was riding. Her hateful broom this night and wicked. Work was a foot. Of course I said to myself good old rea- with a slightly different spelling but I'm pretty sure it's the same person which are the coups delve into the coups. Yeah it's it's really the coups back in action or at least referenced as a scary story you tell your kids to get him to shut up and go to sleep right yeah. We learned her for her full. First name reaction reassured for reaction. The last dark tower thing that I had in my notes was align there were perhaps seventy people in that great dining hall rough dressed riders. What we would call nights? I suppose. And I thought or gunslingers. Ooh rough dressed riders in the great dining hall. A definitely reminded me a lot of Rowland's childhood in Gilead how the gunslingers were travelers and peacekeepers and to the kingdom base. Yeah but they dressed like clint eastwood in the Spaghetti Westerns. And I I think these gunslingers we know that the lane is in somewhere on the same maps Gilead. So why wouldn't there be so as we said before? This whole book is.
"Dark tower. And sean. It's time for some fun stuff. It is all right. Looks like we've already talked about this. Who stole my thunder? One of the things of fun stuff that I listed in my notes was Jimmy's rat rat death. We talked about that earlier but yeah when when he is just consumed head to toe by rats when he's trying to escape the basement. That was a really really spooky scene. I wish that something like that. We're still in the book and it was just so much funds. I just wanted to call it out here. Yeah the afterward king talks a lot. What about comic books and those are definitely trash and probably bad trash and a lot of instances but they but they had A deep deep influence on him specially the EC horror comics and. He writes the afterward that he likes comics because the way that they portrayed vampires was different than the other vampires he'd seen like these were American. Eric Vampires They Ha. They owned restaurants. They chop people up at tournament. Hamburgers could sound. There's blood banks. They are milking people for like all sorts of weird stuff but He liked the vampires because they were American. Vampires and in two thousand ten King Co wrote a comic series called American vampire so I thought it was a little prescient that he mentioned that there. So something obviously you could see a Lotta Times. King has ideas. We talked about this with eleven. Twenty to sixty three. See how you could see him working through these ideas before finally became a book and I wonder if he was already thinking about a something with American vampires here. I wouldn't doubt it so another fun stuff item I have. There's a line in the afterward where king talks about Callahan's fall from grace. The line is so callahan has sent hence into the land of nod nod which lies to the east of Eden and in Salem Slot Detroit serves as standing for not and anytime I hear about Detroit in the context of like well. Let's just say it's not eating. It reminds me of one of my favorite Comedies Kentucky Fried movie and there's a scene in it.
'Downton Abbey,' 'Breaking Bad,' and Why TV Is Still Jealous of Movies
"Chris. You're here along with Amanda because you know a lot about television and Amanda and I are for a little bit out on television sort of as a general rule. I'm post. TV POST TV separate succession. Now there are some television shows that I love. I started to watch when this weekend that I think is incredibly well made which is called unbelievable but I was just home with my mom for a little while and she while she's a stranger to cable news but she adorable still gets a lot of her news from the newspaper so two days later she'll be like. Did you hear about Joe. Biden and I'll like what what do you mean. Did something new happens you know. Did you hear about this phone. Call and that's just what you did with unbelievable where you were like. I'm breaking to you guys that there's this show well no now. I admit I am one one week late and you've already covered the show on the WOK yeah. We've already covered the sh the show on the site. I just didn't have the time to get to you. I hear you I'm seeing all these movies but one thing that is interesting that it's happening right now is is that I even though the just happened and even though TV is having this incredible boom time I feel like TV is still a little jealous of the movies and we know that because Downton Tanabe rather than comeback as an eight part miniseries has decided to become a full length feature film and the people said. Yes they said Yes to the tune of thirty three million dollars a lot of money for an extension of the Downton Abbey University was a show that was popular and a phenomenon sort of when it started. I believe the first episode of the Hollywood respective podcasts was a recap of the Dow naby premier guess which is just amazing what times past its Niche Butler's Butler's and and and you know that's a show that I liked and I really did you recap Amanda you recap what an amazing time capsule of our life on the Internet in creating culture and now it's a fulling feature feature film which is something that I think twenty years ago it had happened you would have said Downton Abbey really grew up and stepped up to the big leagues in this case. I wonder how you guys feel about what what it means to extend what was once a broadcast. TV Show into movie platform and also like why why this movie work. Why did it work so well. I have a couple of sites and the answer answer of why to turn it into a feature film is money which worked out because it made thirty three million dollars we had a great piece on the ringer last week by writer named Kate Loyd who's based in London and it was he's about the downtown Abbey Economy essentially in how the show changed both tourism in the UK and like she went to a lot of fancy locations and like talk to British these people but also how it changed the British TV industry and down abby the show. Was this wakeup call I think for people in the UK okay that people would from other parts of the world would watch when these costume dramas it was kind of a revival of the costume drama and also had a finance the shows so that they could me distributed around the world and so the piece argues that you know everything from peaky blinders to howards end to all of the things that we now consume and treat as part of the television firmament at least the latest generation of them are a result of Downton Abbey success right that show relaunch yeah Adia so in that way. It's not that surprising to me that it did while because it was like a legitimate phenomenon and we've lived with it for a long time in maybe season six. I wasn't as great as season one but it made a lot of money in a lot of people liked watching it. It's short relief to because the two other big releases over the weekend and that it beat out were ad Astra which was covered at length on this podcast last week and as a movie that I would recommend people see and Rambo last blood. Did you catch up with that Chris. I didn't see I saw ad Astra instead of Rambo because this was not playing anywhere near me. Oh that's a shame why was that I woke neighborhood for you. so neither of those films which are very male centric stallone doesn't play well in. Philly yeah that's a good point you'd think he'd be in every theatre getting but I guess partially one of the the reasons why down succeeded so well is because a lot of women saw this movie and it was the primary opportunity for women at checkout films one week after hustlers dominated the box office and sensing a trend here if you like this happens four five times a year when people are like there are movies for women as well yeah. I think that's true also float yes women see movies. Rah Rah route whatever old people really see movies and the theatres is there is nothing better to do with your time if you got a mom or Gramma Ma than to take them and see the Downton Abbey. That is just wholesome entertainment for everyone so I think that that is as important. The age is as important as the gender breakdown on this one. Let's let's just very quickly. Even though Chris has not seen the downton movie talk about what's good about the downs and movie you and I attempted to recap the film for Chris via slack last week. You feel like we did a good job. Ah Yeah I think so recognized all the names. All the actions made sense I just did they didn't really come together in a sort of visual sentence for me so that is actually a notable spoke to Michael Angler about this. It is a little bit of Downton on steroids. You know the theme music is amplified in such a way that maybe they had three hundred more brass instruments. Mintz played playing the theme song. There's a lot of drone shots of Downton Abbey. It is it is a a muscular rise version of this upstairs downstairs costume drama the film itself did strike me though I think you may have originally said this to me as just one long episode of Downton Abbey to me it was like a Christmas special sel which they do in the UK and I think it was the season two Christmas special of Downton Abbey which is when Matthew and Mary finally get together and like kissing the snow outside outside of the side of the House I would say it's on par with the Christmas special except for like to party set-pieces instead of one as you said and fancier dresses addresses and I guess there's like a first episode climax halfway through the movie and then a second episode kind of bringing everyone home. The thing is downstairs to get into some hijinks and then there's ramifications upstairs. It's crazy what happens on almost like it's upstairs downstairs I thought it was an enjoyable movie and I'm not surprised that it was successful. I'm surprised it was successful. It was also the biggest movie in the history of focus features which just fascinating I have spoken to some people who worked worked on this movie and they have when they acquired the rights to release this movie. They said we have our IP. We have our version of superhero movie and focus features. That's what I was. GonNa say really leans into that older audience that you're talking about the identify women as their audience much more clearly and this is a part of the same strategy so I wouldn't say necessarily the Ad Astra had this problem but I do think that it is near impossible to sell anything anymore without some pre existing kind of awareness of what you're getting when you walk into it just because there's so many options for people that if you just sorta like here's a movie about butlers and rich people story. Michelle dockery people are going to be like I don't know but if it's something that they have this decade long relationship leashes ship with if they have the kind of extra screen relationship that they have they cared about and if there is like I was I was watching a lot of linear television this week because I was with my mom. We were watching the Ken Burns documentary. There was down Abbey stuff sandwich. Every episode of the Ken Burns Documentary Music talking to the country music to let you know it's coming out. Here's the history of the show. Here's a recap of everything that happened. Here's the making of the show like they actually did their push. It just just happened on public television. We didn't see it as much necessarily as like Robert Downey junior driving around in an Audi with a Samsung phone pushing vendors do you think that this is now now a sort of MCI -ation of Downton or is this just a one off thing that they struck gold on this one movie or is there going to be another one have been teasing the sequel for weeks. Now that's yeah yeah they've been talking about how the possibilities open and I think you know which is code for. Yes it will happen and they certainly leave the door open in the movie. Everyone is in in a happy place but more hijinks cannon sue and I'm sure well a Dan. I'm curious how far you can probably only take down into world war. Two 'cause post World War. Two I think all of those states just for their museums museums the economy economy of the upper class in the UK just breaks down and it's just not how upstairs downstairs doesn't really apply as much anymore the film kind of glances at the end to the how much longer can this go on which I thought was an interesting potential way to seal office equal in the end zone dunkirk what we'll talk about this more. Maggie Smith is in this movie Maggie Smith Chris do modify spoil Israel okay. I guess if you are really really strict about spoilers. Turn it off now. Even but Maggie Smith gives a speech that's kind of like a farewell speech but notably nothing actually conclusively happens to whether Maggie Smith math will be in future episodes of down nappy. TV show or something happens to her but then they're like. We'll see what happens yeah she could've done urge becomes iron man. It's incredible credibly. She defeats the end of the movie. It's wild. It's nineteen twenty seven in this movie that's right. They've got like twenty more years. Yeah okay. What's interesting to me about. This is is the movies in theaters. It's an extension of a television show there have been there's been the super sizing of TV shows into movie form a lot over the last year. This isn't the first first time it's happened. In the ninety. s we saw the kind of like met a rift commentary on things by having. Beverly hillbillies movies and Brady Bunch movies now what we have is just a more clear extension of the stories that originally told there was a dead movie earlier. This year was a between two ferns movie also released over the weekend which is not quite the same serialized television but is in the same tradition in a way away and then in October. We have a breaking bad movie called El Camino Dave Dina do this for a long time. They've been dying to get this kind of multiplatform storytelling going because of the amount of money there is if you can actually do what they wanted to do with dark tower where you can tell something that has has a feature presentation that maybe is the sort of the danger of the story but like you have other storylines going on TV and that you could actually create a like twelve month a year sport out of your story. That's why they want you know and now there are different things now.
A Review of 'It: Chapter 2'
"Today. We're discussing. Sometimes it comes back for you where it's more boring name it. Chapter Two starring Jessica chastain James mcevoy Bill Hater Isaiah Mustafa Jay Ryan James Ran Soon Andy Bear. Some of these people have to just be happy their names on a poster oester. I mean who the hell some of these guys the old spice guy because his name above the title and Bill Skarsgard as pennywise directed by a Andy Machete this is Arnie Coz now playing and the fun is just beginning Ed Stewart and this is the host who still insists he sees the ghost Jacob it aftermath aftermath wow as Stephen King Fan as somebody really into Stephen King around the time this came out of you. Remember dark tower came out right before this. I was actually buying a couple of Stephen King Trotsky to go on my bookshelf with all my Stephen King Books. They're made like a Jack torrens action figuring things and I'm like you know they don't make too much of this so I'll get a couple of these and put them up there. It exploded merchandising for every Stephen King thing. There's a hot wheels Christine. There are more pennywise figures that I can count what I'm not kidding. Wow Yeah so ooh many pennywise toys of all price points this has opened a floodgate on Stephen King that has never been opened before merchandising him to the Gen xers. I think so what does that mean. I mean we all know what merchandise meant and fanning the love of Star Wars. What would it mean to hold a bobblehead. Ah pennywise Ernie called GEN-X. You GotTa Buy Your Co.. POPs gets by stuff by toys by Chachis of stuff you like and Stephen King's. The big caught thing now so let's just how the market is. Is it selling yeah okay. I mean I didn't buy any of it. The moment you know what I liked about it when it was niche and there was like two things I loved it when every week. I'm getting an email this new pennywise doll for two hundred dollars. I'm like fuck it pennywise varian Syrian funk. Oh pops are there. Oh my God so many long tongue pennywise bloody pennywise smiling pennywise frowning penny wise spider pennywise okay this kind. It helps me understand why you were so into skarsgard. They've really been able to magnify what was a very small part of the film really wasn't in that many scenes and by my impression Russian he was only good in about half of them so how he has lived on in the minds of the viewer is through merchandise he made an impression he scarred us and and now two years later he's coming back to finish the job yeah and again. I'd equate to a Freddy Kruger. I'd think it's the closest thing we've had to a horror icon. In a long time and Freddie never had that much screen time it was people talking about Freddie and Robert Englund Cameo films. You know so and I think merchandising we've made every Jason we've made every Friday. Oh my God pennywise we have something new to sell but the highest grossing nightmare on Elm Street movie wouldn't begin to touch the gross of of this fill it goes well beyond the reach of a horror audience. I mean this. There were people in my neighborhood I walk my dog and churchgoing folk who I would never suspect suspect to have opened a cover of Stephen King said. Oh it's coming out soon people. I would not imagine demographics that do not see any other horror. Film are are coming out this weekend and why the impression I got was they really loved the kits. Yeah I think that I it was huge and almost every viewing was sold allow. When I went to go see this Friday night theaters packed yeah you can keep going on about penny wise and I think you're right for a certain level of people that loves horror ICONOGRAPHY. That's a thing thing but I feel like in mass. The reason why this is so beloved because it goes those children were so good and it connected to childhood so well and that's the struggle of chapter or two. I know that the kids are coming back in some role but the torch is being passed. It will now be for new actors. That didn't even have the job when the first movie he came out. What's funny is before it chapter one came out the sequel was in pre production. You know the studio knew what they had right and so when they were you're doing pre release interviews with the cast they asked the young kids who would you like to play you and Young Beverly said Jessica chastain and that kind of makes sense I mean chastain had had worked with Michetti before and I mean how many red headed actress sent me as I mean. It's either her Dallas Broward Sophie Turner from X. Expend Dark Phoenix twenty seven years later. That's great highlight store here. Maybe and then Wolford said Bill Hater. Those actually happened yeah yeah. I don't know how much they had already envisioned for chapter to win. Two years ago it blew up. They had talked about it. The whole way through one is what it was. They kept saying if we do a two. Let's leave this hook here. Let's leave this here. Let's leave this vague enough here. They knew if the movie was successful while filming part one in sixteen. If this did well we would want to bring the kids back would want to have some flashbacks but we're gonNA focus mostly on the adults and they had vague the ideas but they did never script yeah they knew the parts of the book they had left behind and so that was a lot of material is a big ass book. They could make lots of movies out of what was remaining remaining of that but they didn't have a script. They didn't have a cast again. It wasn't called Chapter One. They shape the experience as total you could just watch that movie the and be done and that was the studio's. Choice Warner Brothers did that the makers want to call it the losers club so that it had a hook there for a second one and and I think the compromise was chapter one at the end credits. I stand by that. I think that movie does work as a standalone if it had bombed and we never got chapter two I think that would still be a satisfying the movie as far as the art goes and I appreciate that I like it when movies tell a story instead of teas another film to come out at some other point I also think I think that there is a lot of ret conning done in the film. We're here to talk about today. Oh yeah they didn't create a first chapter that set up a lot of things they're we're going to do in this film. That's why there's so many flashbacks yeah they had to correct it by bringing the kids back and they did d. h. them with CGI because kids at that age you know two three years later look very different. I noticed height differences. I noticed like some who were shorter than beverly in part one out taller than beverly only in part to but they made the faces look younger yeah. I noticed that at times. They look a little bit plastics. Oh okay that makes sense because they D- aged Regata de age. These teenage kids not only like that but I noticed some of the lip sync work. That ain't his voice. You know your voice changes to three years later. They can't say the lines like they would've in the summer of one thousand nine hundred nine so oh yeah you just get people that kinda sound like them but are not them. Jack Dillon Grazer was the one who looked most distracting to me like for some reason his face just look blake an old man made into a child and but this is expected to be huge based off the first one I mean the first one broke records chapter. Two is breaking a record. It's the Whitest ever released for an R rated film with over forty five hundred screens in the US alone and they were saying hundred ten million two hundred twenty million this weekend. It's already falling short of expectations though it is it made less in preview screenings than the first film. It's estimated now. It's going to make less over the weekend than the first film. What did the first film do. The first film got one hundred thirty five million the first weekend. I guess I didn't see that opening weekend side there. Wasn't the big crowd. I didn't realize I was so big right away. I thought that kind of had a slow burn so it's looking like this will be perhaps second-biggest and they're now readjusting estimates down to ninety ninety million. Maybe as low as eighty million compared to one hundred thirty five million for the sequel. I gotta think some of it is you don't see kids and is not an eighties period piece. The nostalgia culture isn't there to draw in the big audiences. I know when I saw it chapter one opening weekend. Neri empty seat in the house. When I saw this opening night it was about a two thirds full on the APP but a lot of people didn't show up like all the seats around me were Phil on the APP and people just didn't come. I think that's the result of that. AMC stubs premier as you can buy tickets for no money so you reserve seats and like I'm decided not to go interesting house in the same screening as you Arnie for Thursday I max we didn't see each other until after after it was all over with but I did also go back and saw matinee on Friday. There was almost nobody there so I have not had the experience that this is something the masses asses are turning out to but the numbers are saying something different even at one hundred million if that's less than expected. That's an amazing opening. That's huge yeah for an R rated Orville. Matt is amazing and like I said packed when I saw it. I do wonder when the reviews started coming out and I always avoid reuse but you always see headlines in that. There were some concerns turns and I wonder if that scares some people away like they were not buzzing like with chapter one. I didn't hear anything I didn't see any reviews before going in but this movie cost cost twice as much as the first one bigger actors in it so if it makes less this one costs seventy million dollars they had budget built in for de aging kids and they had named named actors who we know and some of whom need to redeem themselves from an earlier x men film this summer and needs a show they still can do good budget built in so they didn't have that crap. Raffia from the TV series and it's also longer they can't screen it as many times in a day because it adds. It feels like another hour. It's not quite that it's more more like forty five minutes but still it's two hours fifty minutes. It's almost three hours. We're talking to vendors level length here well. The first chapter one was also over two two hours but this goes beyond that by at least forty minutes so again for lots of reasons. If you know the book and hold the opinion I do the best stuff.
"The. Welcome everyone to two guys to the dark tower. Kane a podcast where we discussed the characters connections deeper, meanings of Stephen king's magnum opus the dark tower. I'm Jay Rousseau. And I'm Shawn Macur. You can find more information about the podcast at two guys to the dark tower came dot com. You can also Email us at two guys dark tower at gmaiLcom in this episode. We'll cover heavenly shades of night are falling in hearts in Atlantis as well as wrap up. Our discussion of the book, let's start the show. Bobby Garfield returns to his hometown for the first time since he and his mother moved away forty years, earlier, silly John's funeral is a nominal reason is there, but as he visits different areas of town, and then encounters Carol Gerber, not the knee Schoonover. We realized that he is reflecting on his relationships with Carol and Ted broad again, the magic of the universe, and memory in history. Nice day, this is the fifth story in Hartson, Atlanta's, although this story is so slight that it's not even really a story as much. It is just sort of epilogue tacked on at the end that ties up the loose ends of the first four stories in particular wraps up. What was introduced in the first story low men in yellow coats? Yes, I kind of think of it like a coda. And really this coda if we want to refer to it is, dad is about maybe leaving behind the past as our characters have moved on from not only what happened to them when they were children. But what has happened to them since they were adults? And in turn the whole idea of what happened to America in the sixties as a result of Vietnam. Yes, bobby's final act of placing the baseball mitt back, under the, the grove of trees. He slightly acknowledging the sort of science fiction element of what he is experiencing here that there's some sort of weird thing going on that he can explain chooses the just let happen. But it's also him relinquishing his past that baseball glove is a bright, shiny reminder of his childhood. And he hasn't had that baseball glove since he was a child. And we know the journey that, that glove has taken all the people who have owned it in traveled all the way to Vietnam and back in and things like that inherit is back in bobby's possession, and the first chance he gets. He sends it away again, this because he doesn't wanna maybe live in the past anymore, or he doesn't want to risk returning to the past in any way. He's he is, as you say, leaving the past behind the. And actually out of all the characters in the book, Carolyn, Bobby of probably moved on from the past a little bit better than the other characters. Carol has created a whole new persona and identity after she is presumed dead. And when Bobby wants to talk to her about what happened. She doesn't want to she's like, no, that's in the past. I don't talk about that anymore, and Bobby, when we last saw him was leading a troubled early adulthood, in and out of juvie and, you know, a strange relationship with his mother. But he find out his gotten married, and has become a carpenter and also dime, and we don't see Bobby dwelling on the events of the past, except when he comes back to town hits all the old haunts and remembers. Oh, yeah. There is the restaurant where I were ten is all the low men or eighty there's the place where I got work, Carol got beat up and there's mild apartment at cetera. Neither one of them talks about what's happened in the ensuing years. And what their lives have been like something just occur. To me in terms of the structure here, because at the end of hearten, Atlantis that story takes place all in the concurrent moments of the college years. And then jumps all the way to the present a where we encounter Pete Riley skip. Kirk as older men skips in the hospital. It's sort of like a retelling of the of win. Stokely Jones is in the hospital, when they were in college or of that moment, we get a KOTA built into that story, the story happens, and then there's the coda moment we see where these men have ended up much later in their lives, and who they became and we get a little bit of a taste of what happened in the years between right? Or why didn't king structure low men in yellow coats that way and have this KOTA between Bobby and Carol? And I think my answer to that, is that king didn't wanna. Giveaway. What happened to Carol great? And it would have been too easy for us to just find out that things turned out, okay for Bobby after all immediately after the events of Ted's of duck Shen than Ted sending him the rose petals rights, like, oh, all right now, bobby's of forty year, he's forty years older and is doing. Okay, it right. I think having the separate having all the way at the end of the book after all the other stories is far more powerful from a storytelling perspective, so sort of answering my question with that. But it's interesting that we had to wait until here for this almost not long enough to be its own story piece, a lot of it is not just we find out bobby's, okay? Or we find out, it's really the relationship between Bobby and Carol that we find out is okay because we have assumed that. Carol his died, and is no longer alive. And that's what Bobby thinks until what happens with sully, John. And specifically the fact that he gets the glove which has a message from Ted in it. And that's when he thinks, oh, Carol might still be around. And if I go back home maybe show, meet me there, it
"Days. So just to build on that this story. Unlike the previous one is not directly connected to the dark tower. Right. That one is definitely Dr tower. Jason and there are explicit references to the dark tower series. This one has some more obscure ones. But it does have as you just pointed out with your example, echoes of low men in yellow coats. And if we're gonna talk about echoes till you low men in yellow coats, that's close enough to being Dr tower need to meet. So just to build on that. The other thing that happened in low men in yellow coats echo tier is there's letter said, at the end of the story in the previous story. Carol forward something from Ted that gets to Bobby and that happens in the last few pages and Bobby opens it up. And it's the roses in this one. Our narrator. Pete gets a letter from Carol sort of explains. What's going on and her thoughts about that? So I thought that that was. If not quite thin, a nice little echo between these two stories. Absolutely one. I think more explicit. Dr any is the Pete's father. We learn with severely injured in a work accident and due to that injury. He was in a coma for nineteen days. Nineteen you say nineteen I do interesting. So I will admit that I did not catch that, but Pete's father showing up at his characterization. Sorta took me off guard is like I was entering a whole nother story. Here's a whole nother character that doesn't seem directly impacted with the rest of the story. But, you know, we get a lot of detail on what happened to Pete's father how he acts now would a different person he is and his silent for most of the time he doesn't talk much anymore, but when he does he has really good insight when Pete breaks up with his high school girlfriend, his nails it on the no, like oh, yeah, Anne-Marie. Yeah. I never I never much liked her, and you can't trust any of those Souci girls anyway. So. You'll be better off without her your. Well shut of her. Yes, I, I could just imagine him doing it in his like, you know, thick rural Maine accent bio perfect. Yes. And also Pete is like the only character in any of these stories so far in parts in Atlantis in, I think, hell most of the dark tower that actually has a father, who's a good role model or has a father at all right. You know how many how many of our characters have fathers who left or fathers who died or fathers who were pieces of crap. Right. Jake stands jerk, total jerk, you know. So here we have a character who is he's the main character of the story end he has a father and his father is he was physically injured, but he still a good person, any still good father, and he's still a, a source of comfort and understanding to son. And that's something that we don't see much of in our journey to the dark tower. No true. We get a mention of the soap opera dark shadows. A vampire soap opera K actually spells out, exactly what dark shadows is if you're not familiar with it, and really dark shadows is not that dissimilar to Salem slot. King is called salems lot Peyton place. But with vampires where he's talking basically a soap opera except with vampires, and that's exactly what dark shadows was. Although if you spent any time watching the original dark shadows, like my wife, and I did when we were in grad school, you realize that dark shadows sort of bat shit. Crazy doesn't make a lot of sense. It really goes for it really ends up going, very soap opera. Leans more on soap opera than on the vampire stuff. Well, it's got a lot of supernatural stuff in. It's got the vampire stuff in. But at some point, you're just like man. This is really soapy. Another dark tower any is that Pete expressly states that he is writing this story thirty three years since the events in the story took place. And we know that the story takes place in nineteen sixty six so thirty three years, later means he's writing it in nineteen ninety nine which, as I recall is a pretty bad year for king, and also a significant year number in the dark tower that is absolutely correct. And a final, Dr any that I had was up all the connections to Odeta slash data slash Susanna. And one of them is that when the boys are trying to help stoke out and lift him off the ground in out of the water. He fights back. He makes it nearly impossible for a boys to help him. And that reminded me a lot of data Walker on the beach in to it was hard enough to push her wheelchair. Through the sand and gravel and the broken earth in the roots and everything like that on top of that. She was throwing herself out of the chair, not gonna chair over turning the brakes on, you know, like everything she could do to make it harder to help her. I don't think Stokely was being consciously that mischievous in evil in combative, but he was definitely making it harder for others to help him. And the other thing is the protests, Odeta shared a lot of the same experiences during the civil rights protests that she participated in that all of the Vietnam protesters went through. So all the things that we learn about that Pete lived through their echoes of that back to Odessa civil rights, protests experiences. Of course, they were protesting very different things, and they're very different people in different motivations. But the act of protesting against the government, the act of trying to change things for the better still met with almost the identical form of. Resistance and. Similar treatments being jailed for your protests being beaten up by the cops things like that. So I, I saw a lot there. And those two things did not happen too far apart in time. So the, the, the mechanisms of the government and the police in thority hadn't really evolved much between the time period when data was protesting a time period that Pete was protesting. Unlike now, like if people, you know, wear pink pussy, hats protests, the current presidential administration. It's a little bit different scene. So thinking about the time period and the near overlap there there's a lot in common. So I count that as Finney as well. Yeah, I think so definite echoes between this story and, and the last story and the dark tower, maybe you and I are well-versed and looking for this stuff now but they're definitely there. Yep. Well as always, we'll get to the fun stuff now. Yes, let us partake in the stuff that is fun.
"The. Welcome everyone to two guys to the dark tower Kane a podcast or we discussed the characters connections deeper, meanings of Stephen king's magnum opus the dark tower. I'm Jay Rousseau and I'm Shawn mcgirt. You can find more information about the podcast at two guys to the dark tower came dot com. You can also Email us at two guys dark tower at gmaiLcom in this episode. We will finish the title story from hearts in Atlantis parts. Twenty three through forty four. Let's start the show. Loses virginity to Carol Gerber, and then she leaves college or thanksgiving break. Pete decides to get on track with the schoolwork. But once he gets back to school. It's back to hearts for him antiwar anti LBJ graffiti appears on the side of a dorm. And the obvious suspect is Stokely Jones, but despite most of the dorm, laughing at his misfortune when Stokely slips and falls into a puddle of water, they have a Spartacus moment and stick up form skipping. Pete us the opportunity to quit hearts and stay in school. The story ends with an older Pete visiting skip in the hospital and reminiscing. When you say it like that, it seems a little dry Jay, but it was an interesting story, and I enjoyed it and I was turning pages throughout. But ultimately, this isn't like low men in yellow coats where there was a build up to a very tense and dramatic moment when the, the low men confront and take Ted away, another dramatic moment when the boys are picky, on Caroline, and Bobby needs to save her here. We just sort of get an everyday regular story that AMAN is reminiscent, gone really small moments in his life, losing virginity playing cards with his buddies at school sticking up for somebody it becomes a full story. And he kinda yada, yada over some of the more important things later in his life when he like when he took his, his protesting even further when he got arrested in beaten up and things like that, he just glosses over that part. Because it's not central to this story, but to your point, unlike lamenting yellow coats, that built up to this great crescendo. This is more like the main character walking to the edge of the cliff kind of hanging out there for a minute. And then just deciding the walk away from the edge of the cliff, again the cliffs there, but he was able to just move away from it. And he did and not, not quite the same stakes. No. And you your point I mean, he walks away from the cliff and deady, basically walks over to a riot over there, that was on the other side of that he was that he was standing on. And you know gets beaten by the cops and gets thrown in jail and. His best friend, who he played cards with in college becomes a famous artist. And, you know, sort of world renowned then has a heart attack. But all that is secondary and off page and the key moment. With him reuniting with skip is just them at the end saying, you know, much like the ending of low men in yellow coats, where Bobby in his mother sort of say, hey, we tried retried. It's just the two of them saying the same sort of thing like we did the best. We could on. It's just you know, male bonding piece at the end. But again, not these big dramatic moments that you might think of normally and again, king does that stuff. Well, one of one of the best loved movies of Stephen king's at adaptations is stand by me. And you know, there's not much in that movie. That is dramatic. Right. There's, there's a train sing seen when the running across the trestle. But what would you think of that movie? And remember it, it's to sort of. The boys hanging out and being together. I guess getting leeches on their body. But yeah, that does have that does have a lot in common with this. In, in terms of the central character of the story is also the author writing about the story as reminiscence, and stand by me is constructed the same way. So we start with the adult author in his studied, working have the flashback of the movie and end back with the adult author again, the great, Richard Dreyfuss. Yes. But here we know that Pete Riley isn't going to go to Vietnam die because he is alive. Thirty three years later writing the story. Right. We at least know that much that's built into the structure. So there's no suspense there. But we don't know if he's going to fell out of school. We don't know what's gonna happen to all of his friends. We don't know that he's not going to end up in Vietnam. Right. And we and we definitely didn't know that it was going to. Throw himself fully into protesting the Vietnam, war and get into all sorts of crazy things from getting beaten up by the cops cetera. The happened after
"Section. There are a lot of connections to the dark tower and I realized when I asked you, a couple of episodes ago like, hey, when you read this book, did you realize it was dark tower related? And you're like, oh, when I first read it, I didn't realize that at first, and I'm like, oh, by the time you've got to this section. It must have been like hitting you over the head. Like, hey, here's a dark tower reference, and here's another one. Here's another one, and I'm just gonna not even make reference slight references, but outright discussions of the dark tower here. Yeah, it couldn't have been more obvious. If Roland himself were reading the story to me. Yeah, we'll just focus on a few them because the tail end of this story is almost all a Finney in and of itself. Right. So, so one of the ones I wanted to call out was that Bobby has a lot of realizations and intuitions that are correct. When he opens up the envelope of rose petals. And one of. Those is thought that there's not just one world, not just one. There are other worlds than this millions of worlds all turning on the spindle of the tower, and this is exactly our understanding of what the tower is this is what we learned in the dark tower books. Bobby has direct connection to the rose petals of the field of the condo Ray and maybe through the magic of the tower and his physical connection to these pedals in, he, he understands even if he doesn't grasp it, and maybe he gets some sense of how big the situation really is just how important Ted is to the story, perhaps, and from our perspective, having finished reading the books, we realize that despite the nature of this story being a tragedy that there is actually a happy ending of sorts here because we know that a dark towers been saved, and that be Ted brought in. Been there because he labeled a collect these rose pedals, and obviously that could not have happened timing wise in the book until after a goal Santo has been freed, the breakers are no more and Roland. His save the dark tower and made his way there. Ted brought again, obviously followed after there and got there to get the pedals. So we know Oilers for the dark tower. I don't really right? But like I mean that's sort of my take away from this, that there is a little bit of hope here at the end. In addition to the fact that, as we said earlier, you know, Bobby, his mother after he'll possess letter sort of reunite and say, you know, where we gonna do she says the best we can he says the best we can? So there's a little bit of hope here at the end. Yeah. Joking aside about spoilers king wrote this book before four zero being book five let alone six and seven. So if you had read this book in publication order, like we did originally and you see this does that kind of spoil. Well, the ending. I don't know. Like I guess you'd have to make that assumption. I don't you know, like in less the road. Like, if you, you would had, I mean, I guess the rose pedals already been discussed. Right. Eddie Eddie had already have his vision of the tower surrounded by roses. So we knew what that meant. But I don't know if people would have made that leap, but earlier on another thing is when Ted meets with the low men, he actually says, at that point, there is a gunslinger, and the low Mente gunslinger pod is like yet, he and his friends have reached a borderland of Ed world. So Ted is somehow already seen the fact that Roland in the Khattak are approaching in on their late there. So I mean that's like really sort of spelling it out, like, hey, I know about rolling then he's on his way he's going to potentially save the day here big and he's telling us the reader pretty much exactly what the role in status is at the end of book or so we're not learning. New information from Ted in, in regards to that, you know, it's not like oh, they're hanging out in, in Sturgis right now. Right. Like he doesn't say that. But it's interesting that Ted somehow has even this information you know, he's been trapped in Oakland. Santo was transported through magic teleportation doorway that she made for him and ended up in nineteen sixties, Connecticut. When did he have a chance to know what roles doing? Good question there. Seems to be all sorts of time and space things here that -combobulate your mind. If you get too deep into I know we try to map it out at one point in it's just all over the map here. But that sorta leads me to a question that I had is, you know, it seems like the publication order of these books kind of matters. If king is gonna be this blatant with dark tower content. It kinda makes us into a dark tower book. And if you read this out of order, like, we just have does it change your experience. Does it lessen your experience? Does it matter should it matter? I don't know. Yeah, it it's tough right? Like, if you're gonna tell a story, if you feel that something essential part of the story. I think you've gotta plug it in and make that. Like king sorta has done with the wind through the keyhole. And when he has said in his own words that he thinks that, that is volume four point five in the series. Yeah. Is not said like this volume four point seven five or or something like that. But it kinda hits but it kinda is yes like it at whether or not it is essential, or, you know, little sisters is sort of a prequel at it's not essential. But it sort of said in the dark tower world. Is there anything in here that is essential for us understanding, the plot of the dark tower and telling that story? And I'm, I'm not sure that there is. I think it adds a nice piece. We get a much better understanding of Ted in his background, and why he is the way he is in book seven. But yeah, that's a tough one read it read in this out of order. I there's probably readers would have it both ways. Yeah. You and I struggled with that exact issue when we were making plans for our podcasts. Right. We debated many times should we should we tackle low men in yellow coats before we start book, five or at least book, seven or should we stick to the core books in we alternately came down on the decision to stick with the core books and will will eventually make our way to story and others, like it after finishing book seven, and
"Is the fact that the dark tower is overlaid on top of this, right? That in bobby's dreams, their, their visions of the dark tower and we'll get to that in a second. And we wonder is this possibly a way of different realities that he seeing is that part of the same reality. But the there's a Finney that allows them to see into into this. I mean, we know that how magic works in the dark tower university, there that could be part of it the other pieces, when Bobby Ted or having their talk about his mother at cetera. That's right around the same time when the low men start to do their search, and it seems as if the low men have different powers in what we might be used to. Yeah. They seem to be out, not necessarily broadcasting, but searching and probing the minds of the people around them, and Ted warns Bobby to put up a wall in his mind and not think about things, so that they they're not aware of his presence, and I'd never got that sense in the book that that's how the low men work. But perhaps these are. Different low manner different type of low. What your thoughts on that? Jay, I wondered the exact same thing. We never got the sense that the low men in the dark tower books when we really spent some time around them and Ted explained who they were, and how their society works in their religious aspirations and all that stuff. I don't remember him ever saying anything about them, having psychic powers or the ability to mentally track their quarry. I'd never got the sense that they had any psychic powers, but here when they're tracking Ted suddenly they are able to scratch the back of your eyes, right? Like they make your eyes itching. And, you know, the zone outs are Ted putting that mental wall, and Bobby needs to do the same thing, but they can't be a different kind of low men. Right. You would think the it's, it's the Ken Toyota like they are exactly the same beings that we meet. In book seven of the dark tower. I don't know. They seem much more formidable. They seem much more capable here than they ever are represented in dark tower, which is kind of interesting because king wrote this before he wrote books six and seven unless he wanted to diminish them by cutting them to be lesser beings in the dark Tarbes. I don't understand why he would do that. Yeah. To block his mind from the low men bobby's thoughts start to go to Brigitte Bardot in the poster. He saw where she showed a lot of leg. She's only wearing a towel coming out of the shower, and so sort of this inkling of sex in his mind around this, and then Brigitte Bardot transforms into his girlfriend, Carol, which is quite what he was expecting. But what's interesting about that. That is a direct connection to the dark tower. Is he starts hearing the platter song that we've been talking about before? And then as you thinking about that song, and he's thinking about Carole, he thinks other worlds than this, which is getting really close to that direct connection with the dark tower and king is making explicit what these connections in bobby's sort of getting drawn into the star tower world, right? Without ever really knowing her understanding what's going on. Do you think that other worlds than this? Versus other worlds than these is really a distinction. No. Not really much of distinction, if we want to connect this back to the idea of down there. It's almost a bobby's realizing that there is more to the world than what he originally thought for Roland and Jake and Eddie. And Susannah, it becomes a lot more relevant. Right. The other worlds. This is share hail there. There are actually separate world. We're gonna go through doors to jump in and out of them for Bobby being introduced to other worlds outside of his circumscribed neighborhood, but also other worlds than potentially, you know, I think it's interesting, it's connected to the movie theaters, which again movie theaters open up doors to other worlds, his connection with books which opens up connections to other worlds in this for him. He sees other worlds in this as there's his world. And there's these other worlds that are out there that are not physically the world in his mind yet there. Something different than what he's used to beyond his, his fear of awareness. Right. Yes. And it's books, it's movies, and it's other people in other neighborhoods, he's not aware of the whole different dimensions quite yet. Whether he will be or not, we don't we know that, but he doesn't. So, so we've been talking about it for a while should we officially transition to the dark tower? Binny's section of our show.
"The. Welcome everyone to two guys. Dr tower came a podcast, where we discussed the characters connections. Deeper, meanings, a Stephen king's magnum opus, the dark tower. I'm Jay Rousseau and I'm Shawn mcgirt. You can find more information about the podcast at two guys to the doctor came dot com. You can also Email us at two guys dark tower at gmaiLcom in this episode, we'll discuss the little sisters of Luria dark tower. Short story found in the anthropology. Everything's eventual, let's start the show prior to the events of the gunslinger, roll into Shane enters the deserted town of a Luria where he is set upon by slow mutants and knocked unconscious when he awakens, you find himself under the care of none like women who aren't what they seem the injured role and quickly realizes that these women who's a greater danger than the slow mutants Jay, this is our first. Foray into sort of the extended dark tower universe, if you will, yes, pretty exciting. Yeah. I guess you could make a case maybe for book four and a half the wind through the keyhole. But I think king is sort of adopting that is an integral part of the story by numbering at four point five, but this story stands outside of the dark tower saga itself, specifically, as far as the loop that binds books. One in seven together. I was just gonna make that point four point five win through the keyhole. It has all of the same major characters that we've been spending time with since book two. It does feel like it is of a piece, and it's not just a continuation of the story or even a flashback. It does Nestle exactly in between books four and five in terms of the chronology of any Susannah. Jae-kun along with Roland. But this story as you say is outside of the loop it happens before. For the events of the gunslinger, and therefore before the moment in, in time that the tower resets, Roland story, as far as we know everything that rolling goes through in little sisters of Loria. He only did this one time once. All right. Well before we get too far into our discussion of the story itself as we have done for the books. Let's talk a little bit about the publication of distort because I do think it's interesting. So it was first published in theology called legends, which is edited by Robert Silverberg. And it had a very interesting premise Silverberg had asked numerous fantasy authors to write novellas set in their fictional universe. In addition to king in the dark tower universe. Get Georgia Martin with a song, vice in fire and Ursula Gwen and McCaffrey, Terry Pracha Orson, Scott card and others. So there's a total of eleven stories that anthology one a. Award for best anthology in nineteen ninety nine and then there are a sequel to it as well as a Sifi spinoff called far horizons. I have not seen the actual legends book, Jay. But I believe that's where you, I encountered, the story s when I first heard the story existed, I went to find it wherever I could and at the time, the only place that you could find it was in a copy of legends. And I was fortunate enough to be able to find a paperback edition or they did a strange thing, where the publisher split legends into two volumes, and then put out to different paperbacks, and I bought the one with the Steven king story in it, because that's what I was going after. And at the time, I had never heard of Georgia are Martin kind of bummed. Now that the other volume of the paperback is the one that had the Martin story, I have since found in red that I think it's one of his Dunkin egg stories. I believe you're right. But my copy of. Little sisters. It has a foreword by Silverberg in it also has some very interesting illustrations, that amac, she not too big a fan of. We'll talk about that later. But I think I had a very different experience reading the book this way than what Sean did when he read it in. Everything's eventual. Yes. Oh, everything's eventual is where it was published under kings. Oh, name with the rest of his stories that was March of two thousand two so about four years later and one thing, that's interesting about everything's eventual is that he had these fourteen stories that he wanted to put in the collection and the way that king decided how to order them in the book, which normally most authors, make a big deal of, you know, chronologically or alphabetically or demotic -ly, king took a deck of cards, and took one whole suit. And then I think he threw the joker in there and he gave each card a representation of a story. And so the little sister, Viloria was the sixth of fourteen stories in his represented by the six of spades in the deck that he used. So it was very much a random way of doing it, and that he jokes in that book that has. Next short story collection will be done using tarot cards, which, of course, links right back to the drawing of the three. Yeah. Death, but not for you. Gunslinger did the story was published in between books four and five, which would means that it was done prior to king's accident. Although when he puts his author's note in everything's eventual, he mentions that book five is completed. So he gives the title way to that. And the other books that he wrote around the same time as this bag of bones, the girl, who loved Tom, Gordon. And then I thought it was interesting because in his author's note, prior to the story starting he says he had a really hard time coming up with the story about roll into shame to give to Silverberg. And then he said, one day he was in the shower where he does his best thinking at he was thinking of the talisman, and he had an image come to him of the white tent king, then he realized that he had a story that he could tell. And I'm like, boy, that's really interesting that he's thinking of a book that he wrote, but fifteen years earlier. And not even one of his more famous ones Tasman when he wrote with Peter Straub now trying to figure out like, why was he thinking of the talisman sort of out of the blue like that? But it turns out that he was also writing black house with Straub the sequel to talisman. So that might have been one of the reasons he was thinking of it when king wrote the talisman he did not necessarily think it had anything to do with Dr tower. But once he got around to writing black house. He firmly placed the other world that we learn about in the talent as one of the other worlds. Yep. At the dark tower links to and in fact, the whole idea of Twitter's comes from the talisman. So it's something that king carried forward into the dark tower stories that as part of the vocabulary of Rowland's world. Sure the book was also published in Donald grant edition in two thousand four there's only four thousand copies of those floating around, though, so congratulations. If. Got one of those not only does it include the little sisters of Laurie. But it also has the revised version of the gunslinger. So I think that, that was the grant edition with that. And that has new Illustrated's by Michael Wieland. I've seen a couple of online, they're pretty good L differ from Huilan's, other L stations, but nice as well. And then finally this story has had yet another life, as a marvel comic in two thousand ten and two thousand eleven it was adapted by Robin Furth, and Peter, David. And I think it was a five or six issue mini series that you could pick up the tells the whole story. So you wanna graphic representation of that you can pick that up. So Jay, you had mentioned earlier that Silverberg does an author's note in legends. For the little sisters of Loria. I had not read that until you shared that with me. So I just read it for the first time earlier today, there's some interesting stuff there. Yeah. When I first started to read this in the Silverberg collection, I didn't. I think that it was silver bergh's writing it, I, I assume that this was king writing an intro to his own story, as I kept encountering kind of sloppy generalizations incomplete summaries, and outright mistakes. I couldn't believe what I was reading. There's no way king would mess up this much than I finally realized. No. This is Silverberg. Introducing the first story in the collection, that's makes more sense. It doesn't excuse the sloppiness in the mistakes. But at least I know it's not king doing it. Who edits the editor, right? Yeah, I don't know. He needs a fact chapter because it like even simple things like Suzanne. His name is spelled wrong throughout. Yep. Silverberg makes the interesting, I guess, editor change here, where he refers to the men in black as simply the dark man, which is sort of correct. But it's definitely not something king had decided or established at the point of completing wizard and glass. Right. He was never the officially the same person at that point. So it's kind of like Silverberg made perhaps logical leap and happen to accidentally land on the right thing. He makes a, a big thing about how it uses the Matic elements from the Browning poem, and I don't know that uses the Matic elements. I think it just that uses elements of the text takes some names and the idea of the dark tower but that's about it. Yeah, there's no theme really earthy Matic element that it borrows one of the strangest of things that I. I couldn't quite wrap my head around was that silver goes through, and summarizes each of the book's one
"The. Every one to two guys to the dark tower king podcast, where we discussed the characters connections deeper, meanings of Stephen king's magnum opus the dark tower. I'm Jay Rousseau and I'm Shawn mcgurk. You can find more information about the podcast at two guys, the dark tower came dot com. You can also Email us at two guys dark tower at g mail dot com. In this episode. We'll be reading responding to listeners comments. Let's start the show. Jay, one of the joys of doing this podcast is getting to meet listeners from literally all around the world who have written into us by Email respond to Twitter left messages on Facebook left reviews on itunes, and it's great hearing from folks. And we thought that this would be good opportunity to share some of those with the rest of our listeners. And as we smoothly transitioned from the series, as a whole into some of the Ansari materials that we will be reading while we white not be able to get to everyone's emails and comments that were sent in because there were so many of them, we are going to pull out some of our favorites. And Sean, just to piggyback on that. It might sound flip into say we do it for the listeners but without listeners, we don't really have a podcast. We just have a conversation between Sean and meet, and who. Wants that. And we could just we could just do that without all the extra effort of making a podcast. So it really does mean a lot to hear from you, and we love everything that you've contributed requests for us to do things differently such as pronunciations or. Mike technique all the feedback. It's been great. Well as both Bain and President Trump said said, we do it for you. The people what was that saying accent, just like snuck out. So Sean, one of the first emails that I wanted to bring up in our discussion is one from Sarah Elms and Sarah reminded us in her Email that she's been a Stephen King fan for a long time in that. She's read a good number of his books short stories, too discovered the dark tower kind of late in her. Stephen King fandom, once she started reading the dark tower she was hooked. And she has now read or listened to the entire series of books, at least eight times while and she says that she finds that the story stays with her the way few others. Do she also goes on to praise our podcast a bit, or she says the podcast has been a wonderful way to revisit the story through fresh eyes and ears? This is the first doctor podcast that I've continued to listen to all the way through, you guys are thoughtful in critical. Don't take yourself, too. Seriously? You're quick to point out where you think Stephen King got it wrong and do so with great insight. I appreciate the care. And hard work. It has taken to continue making a podcast. I look forward to your continued thought and care for the dark tower. Adjacent novels and short stories, long, days and pleasant nights. Sarah. Well, thank you very much. Sarah, one of the things that interested me, Jay reading this Email, was the fact that she's ready to listen to the series at least eight times. Yeah. And we've talked before about how readers have come to this over and over again. And we were actually recently tagged in a Twitter discussion about somebody who's going through the series yet for another time. And I saw Twitter, also somebody who is actually spending their day today, going through all three extended Lord of the rings movies because that's something that they do on an annual basis. And in the Twitter discussion where we were specifically tagged. Somebody had mentioned that they read it fifteen times, which. Boggles boggles, the mind. That's a, that's a lot of rituals of should. Yes, it is. And what was interesting was that, that person said that they've gotten something out of it each and every time that read it something that they didn't see before at cetera. I appreciate that. Sara said that hearing our podcast has been away to revisit the story through fresh eyes and ears. And I do think there's something to be gained for that. And I used to be that way, a lot when I was younger, and as I've gotten older, and realized that my reading time, both actual time that I have in my life to read is finite as well, as how much lifetime I have left is finite and idea to make the best use of my time. I found myself, not revisiting books, and stories and movies over and over again. Like I used to it'll occasionally happen, but they're still a half a dozen to a dozen Stephen King books that have been written that I haven't gotten too, so I don't find myself going back rereading ones that were favorites like I used to. And I wonder as somebody who has read, I think you said the first. Three books of the series, at least three or four times. What your thoughts are