20 Burst results for "Dark Tower"
"dark tower" Discussed on Chat Sematary
"I'm so excited. And then yeah and then that happened. Were fooled unfortunately well terry. Is there anything else you wanna touch on. I'm sure there are people out there who are yelling at us that we forgot something and because this book is so big it really is hard to do in one episode. I feel like. I don't know if you listen to binge mode from the wringer or any of the listeners. Listen to that. But that is the kind of format that i think would work better for the dark tower series as a whole because you can really sit down and break it down sort of section by section in the books and get all of the details by doing it that way but for me. It's like i'm two books past this already and my brains. I think this is as good as it's going to get. Yeah i you know the thing is is that i. I think the only way to really if you're going to really go hard on this on this series is like you said take it one hundred pages of the time or by like sections at a time and really dive in deep because there is just too much going on in the in the paperback version. It's eight hundred and forty pages but there's like there's just so much going on that it's really impossible to let's and cats. It's impossible to do but i. i do think that we covered most of the things. That that I wanted to talk about from my end. I just i. I really think that as like as a story telling a story about storytelling that this this book in the series aces yeah. There weren't really too many low spots for me and the series. And i was expecting there to be like one book that i absolutely hated. Find that to be the case. There were ones. I liked more than others and i think i like the gunslinger more than a lot of people do because it hooked me and i was like okay. I need to know what happens with roland. And jake and i know some people were kind of like. I didn't really get into it until like the third book maybe and to each their own. Obviously as long as people are reading books. I'm like i don't care. Which one do you like. You read the books and that's cool with me and it seems like with king there are people who love all of his books for very different reasons and i think that's one of the more interesting things about him as a writer. People can take these drastically different stories to obviously the dark. Tower isn't really like some of his other stuff. Even though it is tied to the same universe. I wouldn't say you know kerry is anything like this. No this series is unlike anything else that he's written before except for maybe dragons. I is that what it's called. Yeah that does tie in. Yeah i mean other than that which was which was definitely like a fantasy novel. I don't eyes of the dragon. I think either dragon yeah. I don't think that this book is this series is is like anything else that he's he's ever written. I think that that's kind of fascinating that it's it's both his sort of like magnum opus of of series. That ties everything together. While at the same time isn't anything like it or carey or salems lot or any of those. Yeah i am very thrilled with how this podcast is going so far simply because i know i said sometimes it's hard for me to remember the details but i think doing it the way i'm doing. It is going to allow me to get the bigger picture of what he wanted to accomplish as a writer whereas if i had taken you know months in between each book those things might not have necessarily clicked with me the way they are now. Yeah i completely agree. And i think that this episode marks kind of a turning point because even though i think his later books in some degree i everything he writes is tied to the dark tower. You know it's it's sort of like the end of a chapter. I agree it really does feel that way. Because i felt this sense of relief when i finished the book and it wasn't because it was over it was like oh i understand what he was building up to now and yes i still have the wind through the keyhole which is kind of like the four point five book and that at least is much shorter and i don't think it'll have sort of the same kind of impact when i finished that as this one did. Yeah and you still have the dark tower movie. That's not for quite a while though so it's okay. I won't think about it until next year. If i don't have to there you go well terry. Thank you so much for coming on to talk about the seventh dark tower book. It has been a joy having you on to discuss it and you know keeping some more of the details straighter than i would have. Well thanks for having me. It was i. I was had such a great time talking the black house. I was happy to come back all right. That does it for this episode of chat cemetery. You can support the podcast on patriotic for a dollar a month. You'll get a thank you on the show for two dollars a month. I will send you a chat cemetery sticker and if you want to follow us on social media you can do so at chat cemetery on twitter instagram and facebook. You could also rate and review the show. That's huge help and as always thank you for listening and we hope you enjoy the rest of your day..
"dark tower" Discussed on Chat Sematary
"He has a ferry role in it. As we now except i mean this this one is is the kind of robot but i was like. Oh that's immediately called back to. Yeah yeah there's a there's a lot and then like. I had briefly mentioned earlier with walter. Him and randall flagg i mean he gets the most like off-putting deaths of of running into mortgage rid who. I think that it's interesting. That stephen king has written himself into the book. Because you get you get this. This character of vaulter dim. That has again. Been so prevalent in in stephen king's work and then you hear what mortared thinks about him where you know. He's like he's saying that. This is what i'm supposed to work with a cracker gobbling crumbs spewing fuel host to full of his past exploits the census present danger. And i kind of think that this is king's way of critiquing himself. Because just a few pages earlier you had walter talking about stephen king and saying that he was a genuinely talented writer who turn himself into shoddy but rich quick sketch artist And so you know you have the sort of like almost that. The characters are are kind of like two sides of of coin with with this character and the way. He's he sort of. Just like snuffed out of kings story It's it's such an An interesting and self deflating ending to a character that so many people have like whispered about in kings over. What do you think about the fact that the dark tower really seems to be the center of the stephen king universe. There are obviously some books that don't actually tie into it. But when you get to this book you really understand why his universe is the way it is by the end of this I mean i think it's about. I mean you kind of talked a little bit about this in wolves calla about how the dark tower series seems to be about people telling stories and in that regard. I do think that that this is sort of like the spine of of every single story. That he's ever told and everything even ones that don't necessarily mention the dark tower. Obviously take place in one of the many like meta versus or multi verses that are surrounding this this story so even in that way everything serves ca regard. But i i think it's i think it's fascinating win. It's almost like taking a look back into the kind of behind the scenes thinking that that authors have in in such a a visible and an open way. So i'm i'm all for it. I think it's i think it's a it's a smart thing to do. And and i do think it is all about telling stories and it kind of divorces. This story from just being from stephen king because he talks about how you know writers and in some ways are like ciphers that people just the story flows through them in this one just happens to be the story the flow the flow through king. Yeah i know. I've been a little all over the place the what we want to talk about with this but is there anything you want to dive into before we talk more about how this ended how the epilogue in kota everything up and what that means. Yes the idea of day. Sex makina which i think was kind of a brave fool. Hardy thing stephen king to include. I mean there's literally the point in the book rea- says he said gra lacks. This is the dave sex makia right where he like. Basically saves susannah and enroll in from. Does dan delo creature that mixed with patrick. Because basically patrick is the davis mocking of is the key to solving everything. I think i. i think there's very. I honestly i don't know how i feel about it. I'm curious what you think about about him. Including the stays sex makina aspect of the story. It felt very lofty of two. Yeah tossed that end because there's already so much happening and when you throw that into the makes you're kind of like okay. You've literally had to tell us that. This is what this is and i don't particularly enjoy when authors do that when they're just like this is what's happening and i'm just telling you because then it seems like they don't know how to show it to you on the page. Yeah i honestly. I do think if i if i did have a critique of this novel i do think that having written insomnia and and kind of like inserting the fact that that's going to be very important to understanding and solving the dark tower. I do think he kind of rid himself into a corner but like how. How many years like ten ten years before this book was even written by like including patrick in in the insomnia in sort of implying that he was going to have a a large force in the dark tower. Sort of like made this Shit what do i do about patrick. Okay we're going to introduce the insomnia book and here is like a haha and then for actually going to use davis makina and say here. There's this guy that you just sort of stumbled upon. It's in the basement of this house of this psychic vampire that likes to tell jokes. Yeah i i'm not one hundred percent sure that that works on another note about insomnia. I felt like. I would have paid more attention to that book and maybe would have tried a little harder. Had it had the dark tower name attached to it. Because like i said you can read wolves of the callan understand who father callahan is without having read salems lot because like you said you haven't read it but i think that book does a good job of giving you an idea of who he is in case you know you're not a completion est and you haven't read. Salem lot but insomnia feels like there are just too many characters and plot points that tie into this final book to where if you haven't read insomnia i'm not sure a lot of this book makes sense. No i agree hundred percent. And like i said i it because again i hadn't read insomnia in however many years it's been in so i sent me down a wikipedia. Lincoln like who is this patrick. What does this have to do. What was insomnia yvette. About so i and back in two thousand four. I don't know if a lotta people would have done that with. I don't like pdf and around in two thousand four pediatric really became grew to prominence. But i don't think people had the necessary tools and to to do that. And so i i agree. I don't. I don't think i don't think that this was the better of the of the Ways of inserting that. The old characters i. I like pair peers much better. I thought you don't really need to know. He's he's five empires. He's good at it he can tell vampires. That's all you really need to know. Yeah i will say that with ted brought again. Though his story and hearts in atlantis religious introduces the low men in yellow coats and his actual story in hearts in. Atlantis isn't too terribly crucial..
"dark tower" Discussed on Chat Sematary
"Everyone chat cemetery is back. I'm your host deanna. Chapman and i am joined once again by terry menard today. We are talking all about the seventh dark tower book which is titled the dark tower. Fittingly enough and i know becky coach has been the one who was doing all of these episodes with me but reading three dark tower books in a row is madness and i would not wish that upon anyone in the short timeframe that i had to do it for this podcast so terry thank you so much for joining me on this book. I know it was a beast. Yeah it was. it's. I haven't read this book since well since it came out. I guess in two thousand and four. So i forgot how big the beast it was. But i can't imagine going through three books that you've had to go through so so quickly in such a short time. Yeah amd because so much happens in this one i was like oh my goodness. I'm not going to remember so much of this. And it's one of those series where it feels like each book is kind of its own consolidated story and then you get to this last book and it's just like here's everything all at once all wrapped up not really in a nice neat little bow. But you know it's wrapped up for the most part and this was actually his fiftieth book that was published. So that is crazy that i have done. I guess fifty book episodes now. Yeah that's that is a lot. I think back on because we we talked about the black house. And i think back on how kind of bonkers churn is from From reading all of his books to all the tv shows and movies based on his on his material. I you You really really went crazy for it. But i have to say that this is kind of like a big momentous episode for this because you are finishing like the thing that he was going to originally go out on. I mean he talked about retiring after publishing the dr tower and this was published on his fifty seventh birthday to if i'm not mistaken and it's like looking back now. You're like now retired at that age. No i remember being so sad when he talked about retiring because he talked about it. Then i think you talked about a little bit later in the in the two thousand ten's timeframe i just. I'm so glad that he's not but man. What a prolific career now. I'm just sitting here imagining. If this were the last episode or close to the last episode of the podcast. As far as the books it could have been it could've been even even the And like an author afterward he was talking about how the series is is so much like tied to his writing. Identity that you know it's kind of fitting that it would be his last book. So i mean even even in this book he was talking about like. I think i might retire. Yeah that's crazy. Well let's go ahead and divan. And i want to talk about some of the characters who come back from other stories and things like that. Because this is the book where ted brought again and dinky earnshaw come into play and dinky appeared in a story that was part of his collection. Everything's eventual right. Yeah and it's been so long since i've read book. I don't even remember when that came out. I was ninety. Nine ninety nine. Wasn't it wasn't because i think that's like a plot point in this in this book. Sounds about right. To perfectly honest. I do not remember most of the characters that are like just introduced in this in this book even now sixteen years on from when it was released. I'm sitting here. And i had to go pull up the wiki and look at okay. Who is this patrick. Who is dinky. 'cause i i remember ted and specifically member ted because he also showed up in the black house so i was hit his carrots fresh in my mind but like dinky and patrick. I was like who are these people. Yeah and because insomnia was not a book that i particularly enjoyed as much as some of his others. I miss like i knew it was important to the dark tower series and part of me was like this is just too much. This is too weird. My brain does not know what's going on in insomnia. And so when patrick came up to i was even i was like. Oh yeah okay. I got a look things up here because so much is happening in this book and you know you mentioned how quickly i'm going through some of these and i'll admit it does make it hard for me to sort of keep all of the facts straight at times but i think this was the only way that i was ever going to get through all of his books in a semi timely manner. Actually this is more than timely manner. If you ask me. I think a book a week is definitely more than timely. To be fair. It's come out to like one every two two and a half weeks. Because i've been doing the podcast for over two years now and like we said. This is the fiftieth book. But i've read ahead you know i've read the colorado kid and sell by the time people are listening to this possibly lissi story and it is still a lot because so many of his books are like the size of two or three books. Yeah it's true. I m i ordered. 'cause like okay. I'm sorry readers. But when i'm doing when i'm doing stuff like this. I like to bend pages. So i bought a paperback version of this book. So that i could and my other books in storage somewhere. I don't know where it's at my heart back. The original hardback. So i was like i buy it so i can bend the pages so i could like make little notes in it because otherwise when you're reading eight hundred page book. It's hard to do that. And take notes at the same time. But i forgot how big of a book this was particularly coming off off of a song. Susannah which i believe was really short. Yeah it was only like four hundred pages and change at least for the hardcover. Copy that i had. Yeah and i you know reading this now without having revisited. Either wills of cal or songs susanna. I was kind of wondering why they didn't end songs to susanna with the kind of climactic battle that opens up this book. That probably would have been a bit of a better cliffhanger. Think because like you said one that books a little shorter and king has been trying to give us cliffhangers with each book. That was building up to this book. So i wonder if it's just because he wanted this one to start off with this big grand thing at the beginning and then you sort of work your way through wrapping everything up and you mentioned patrick and i think part of the reason. I didn't really feel like he was going to be super significant. Was because it was one of those things where he he draft of roland and the crimson king and drew up prophetic picture of them. So it's like you kinda know when things are going to come into play but then in this. It's like he's just rescued. Yeah i did have a question. Nos hoping that you would remember because you've obviously read it a lot sooner than earlier. I guess quicker than i have kazai again. Haven't read that since it was released in the early nineties but they make a comment in here that that patrick died in the book because like there was like this moment when when they're like talking to roll in about the importance of insomnia and they give him the book which i think is funny that he sort of decide to toss it aside but they comment about how in the book..
"dark tower" Discussed on Two Guys to the Dark Tower Came: A Podcast about Stephen King and His Books
"Welcome everyone. Did you guys to The Dark Tower came podcast where we discussed the characters connections and deeper meanings of Stephen King's magnum opus The Dark Tower. I'm Jay Rousseau home and I'm Sean Becker. You can email us at two guys Dark Tower to support the show visit us at patreon.com two guys walk in this episode will cover the stand book two chapters 53 to 56 month. Let's start the show set entirely in Boulder. This section has two running themes the first procedural and bureaucratic as the group tries to recreate a functioning Society after the apocalypse and the second dramatic as characters go through some emotional moments Nadine being rejected by Larry Harold wondering what his role in Boulder is until Thursday and seduces him for any worrying about her baby despise preparing to Head West and looming over all of it mother Abigail's still missing Sean. What did you think this chunk of the book? Well, gee, I'm glad you asked. As I've mentioned before I tend to be a quick reader and especially when I was reading Stephen King books when I was younger, I'd blow through them in.
"dark tower" Discussed on Two Guys to the Dark Tower Came: A Podcast about Stephen King and His Books
"There. There is a lot of stuff that goes on, you know, in addition to the things you mentioned about, you know, keeping secrets and sending out spies. You've got somebody like Franny breaking into parents house. Yeah and snooping around. That's not something that a quote unquote good character should ever do because it's wrong but we understand why she's doing it and she almost succeeds in her mission to be verify her suspicions with hard evidence who would have been kind of crazy if she did clumsily break into Harold's house and then find his secret journal in its hiding place, right? But King spares us that that that leap. Yeah, but you're right there is a little bit of loosening of morals. I don't know if there's a way around that no, I think God That's the bad part of every government right? Especially what happens where it really I don't think caught me off-guard but when they were talking about sending Tom Cullen to be despised. Yeah and Nick who's closest to Tom comes up with these really good reasons why Tom might be the perfect spy person to send and I think it is Franny and and Sarah, it's of course the two women who vote against it right there. Like no, we don't want to send Tom. We don't think that that's right. That's that's a bridge too far for us is to send this message disabled man out to what could potentially be his death and after the vote happens, they both sort of say We want this to be a unanimous vote. We don't want it to look like we were in fighting even though the votes going to be secret. Let's change our votes or at least we're unanimous and you already get that sense of well, we're going to justify this in some way like even though we don't think it's right. Let's make sure we're going to justify it in a way so that we're all together on the same page and that's I think where you can start to get in trouble. Yeah, Sean. You want to talk about some Dark Tower thin he's I do in do.
"dark tower" Discussed on Two Guys to the Dark Tower Came: A Podcast about Stephen King and His Books
"Overwrought writings interesting. You'd like to think that but I think kings fans actually did not like this book quite as much as his other stuff because it was such a departure from the horror but publishers weekly continue surprisingly is is a gentle story. Despite violence corn is standard vulgarity because king is ingeniously interposed himself between reader narrative. As if he were telling the tale allowed with a soothing cadence particularly audible in the evocative prose qurqus. Who We've mentioned before says this is an adventure. Fantasy for young adults or variable prepubescent among kings most accomplished works some of King's smoothest writing at slickest effects with the usual super cosmic scale down to reasonably familiar villainy. Though the sales won't assumes WILL BE SUPER COSMIC AGAIN. I think over positive on the stuff I never hear. The eyes of the Dragon talked about his amongst king's most accomplish works. I think it's totally left out of the story. And I have talked to some king fans who are not even aware of this book's existence it seems to have been lost over the last thirty five years and I wouldn't rate it as one of his most accomplished works either. No but but he did some very specific things very deliberately and succeeded at all of them from a craftsmanship perspective. This is I think. One of one of his most successful turns at at the wheel but as far as being like an overall like better story than some of the other things he's done or have more quality than some of the things he's done it's up there but it's not at the top now and finally people magazine who. I don't think we've ever used people before review but they have another positive. What many are likely to be held hostage by this delightful fairytale drag it as a gentle fable related temper tones by knowing narrator and they get right to the heart of the matter what their readers are interested in this quote yet dragged is not just a children's book how many children's books mentioned flaccid penises as this does on its third page drag. It is a fully realized novel capable of captivating readers of all ages while it represents a departure for king it is not completely divorced from the rest of his work dragging contains one of his most familiar themes that evil is cyclical and while it can be vanquished it never really vanishes with this compelling tale from another time genre king proves he is as versatile as he is prolific at again that idea that evil cyclical comes back again and again yup most notably in The dark tower itself. Is it wraps itself up with that? Holy Cyclical Nature. Whether or not good will ever top. We don't know right exactly so jade. I think that leads to the conclusion of this book. What are your overall thoughts allows? I was just kind of hinting at a moment ago. I think this is a really amazing book. I enjoyed it a lot. It took me a little while to sorta warm up to it and I think it was because of king style that he was writing it with this voice of the narrator as one of the reviews put it he was putting himself between the narrator and the reader almost directly and it took me a little bit of time to grow accustomed to that but once I had and once I kind of saw what he was doing. I was able to fully embrace that and move forward with the story and really really enjoy it. I am really glad we came back to visit this book for the podcast. I enjoyed reading it a lot. It is one of King's better stories for all of the craftsmanship that he put into that he was doing something different than he'd done before unusual in general and I think he pulled it off really really well. Yeah I would agree. I like what you said about the intricacies of how he put it all together the hallway. It ends with everything coming together nicely. That's something that really makes me happy. And this book really does shine a light on a lot of the themes that are in his other books that evil cyclical part. We talked about the Meta aspect of king sort of inserting himself into this book. But with such a light touch. I think that that's always whispered for the dark tower right like it's so heavy handed in the dark tower and again a lot of events changed in obviously his into with getting hit by the van. Almost dying like all that plays into it like it's so heavy handed there with king becoming a character where in here he's there but you can't see him but there's enough there to realize like oh he's a part of this but in an interesting way and obviously the other connections just between the characters of flag and the Kingdom of d'alene in how this all ties back into the dark tower. I think it really illuminates that book from a different perspective in. It's sad for me. That king really hasn't done other writing like this that he's not done. The sequel with Thomas and Dennis going off on their venture or something else. That's along the sort of fairy tale piece. I think the closest he's come is probably the wind through the keyhole which has a lot of these elements of storytelling and fantasy but with a lighter touch and not quite as horrific. But that whole fairytale feel to it. I think that that's probably the closest common. If you remember we really like that. Yeah I particularly enjoyed it so I think he might be missing an opportunity and getting back to that and one of the things that was great about winter keyhole was that it had a very specific style and structure that king decided. I'm GONNA write this nested story and how story inside story inside story. And that's what he built and he did it really really well. And that's I think the only time he's ever done that maybe not to that extent. I think yeah this is another example of King just deciding. I'M GONNA write a story with this structure in this mode and then execute on it perfectly just flexing his skills right. It's great stuff. Yep well hopefully you all enjoyed it as well and Had A chancery along with us. We had a good time and I hope you did as well. And if there's anything that we missed her your thoughts on it we'd love to hear from you so that's GonNa be all for this episode of two guys to the dark tower came. Thanks Jay. Thank you links to. All of our social media is available in the show notes. If you like to show please rate on apple podcasts to support the show visit Patriot. Dot Com slash. Two Guys Dark Tower next episode. Georgia's as we cover the dark tower related novella. Everything's eventual founded in the collection of the same title for J. Russo. I'm Sean. Maguire. Thanks for listening What sort of stuff do you have? Jay? A fun time was can't there is no fun time..
'Dark Towers' Chases Scandal-Ridden Institution Deutsche Bank
"David ensor joins us now. His new book is called Dark Towers. Deutsche Bank Donald Trump an epic tale of destruction it debuts this week at number two on the New York Times bestseller list and I also have to disclose that. David is my cousin in law and he eats all the pie Thanksgiving about his nonetheless. Welcome here on the PODCAST. Lobo I didn't know what you're going to get that person quickly. Yeah important. Why people to know Dave? Thanks for being here. That's revenue so we're not GonNa talk about that crime. We're GONNA talk about some other ones. This is a book about deutchebanks. Started off with reporting that you did beginning around two thousand fourteen. I was in London working at the time of the Wall Street Journal and I'd already been kind of obsessing about Deutsche Bank. Ps This is you know. One of the biggest banks in the world one of the most troubled institutions and involved is either at or near the center of just about every financial scandal under the Sun and then in January twenty fourteen one of the most senior executives at the bank and kind of the right hand man to the CEO at the time was found hanging in his apartment in lended. Who is he his name is? Bill Broke Smith and he was a guy who had worked at the bank on and off for almost twenty years and he had he was an expert in risk management in an expert in derivatives and he but more important he was the guy who turned to as kind of the ethical compass of the bank he was. He was known informally as the conscience of the place. He was someone who could say no. He was pretty conservative and he was not quite as hungry for short-term profits as most of his colleagues were and it's something that happened at the bank immediately precede his suicide and did he leave a suicide note like do. We know that this was tied to his work. Well I mean it's really hard and I think probably dangerous to try to make in light statement about why someone does something like this but he did leave a bunch of suicide notes including one to with his longtime colleague onto Jane who at the time was the CO CEO of the Bank. And so one thing that became clear over the years a report and I did and working to talk to his many friends and family members and former colleagues as I could was that. There's no doubt that at the time of his death. Deutsche Bank was very much on his mind in someone he knew his on his mind in a not in a good way he was very upset about some of the things that had transpired while he was there are before we get into some of the things that that he personally saw during the I guess the Early Twenty First Century you say that as of two thousand fourteen it was well established that Deutsche Bank was kind of troubled scandal-ridden institution I mean. How far does that date back? Well the bank is one hundred fifty years old this year. Happy Birthday Deutsche Bank and for the first several decades of its existence. This is just a pretty provincial. German and European lender helping big industrial companies like Siemens spread their wings internationally. But when the Nazis came to power in Germany in the thirties Deutsche Bank became a central part of their attempt to take over the world and this is not attempt to take the Nazi attempted takeover. Was that different from what other German banking institutions did. At the time Deutsche Bank was by far the biggest German bank. A lot of German companies to survive did what it took to arrive in that area which was helping the Nazis. But there's been an attempt by the bank and some historians I think in recent decades to kind of sanitize that basic fact by saying well. Everyone was doing it and that was just the way the world works and we can look back at this period now and say that Deutsche Bank was party to genocide. Wow most people who don't work in finance and don't report on finance look at these banks. They all kind of seem interchangeable and interchangeably bad. That every one of them or many of them have had one terrible scandal or another or many in recent years is a bank especially at I mean. Is there something about its culture? There are a lot of things that make it a specially bad. I mean first of all wallets true that just about every bank under the Sun has been attached to one or more financial scandals over the years. Don't you think really has been involved in a disproportionate number and it's faced disproportionate penalties. As a result of that you can look at that in terms of the number of criminal charges. The bank has faced around the world or the amount in fines that it's racked up the to me. The better measure of its destructive capacity is the havoc wreaked around the world. And you can really look in. Probably almost every continent of the world in see some major in pretty pretty bad scandal to the bank was involved with the cause real harm whether it's destroying companies or really messing up economies or being involved in major bribery or corruption scandals laundering money violating sanctions. Deutsche Bank is blamed by the families of some American soldiers for their deaths in Iraq because the bank was illegally funding Iranian terrorists. So you can say that about some things but you can't say about every bank that every single scandal comes right back to their doorstep in that unfortunately is the case. Allow the time with deutchebanks one of the things that differentiates Deutsche Bank for many other banks is that there is no villain at the top. They have no. Ceo Unlike many other banks is that part of the problem that there isn't one person who has held accountable. Well it actually used to be that way these days for the past fifteen years or so they have had a CEO. In fact you can trace the banks last series of problems going back to the mid two thousand to the decision to place increasing power in this unitary see It's gotten worse when they've had someone. Yeah although it got worse under Joe Ackerman who is the longtime CEO from two thousand to two thousand twelve. And he was the one who converted the organizational structure of the bank from being this kind of collaborative committee led approach to being one where there's an American style. Ceo At the top of the bank and Ackerman very shortly upon arriving as CEO of the bank made a very fateful decision which was that he decided that within a very short period of time a couple of years deutchebanks prophets needed to go up about five hundred percent and looking backwards. It doesn't seem that surprise and the consequences that followed that at the time. This marked a really transformational change within the bank. And it went from being an institution that looked around and kind of saw itself as serving multiple constituencies whether shareholders or customers employees or the communities. In which an operator and it went from doing that to having a single minded focus and obsession on maximising short-term profits basically consequences. Be Damned and when you talk about the recent crimes of DEUTCHEBANKS and we're not even getting to Donald Trump who is in your subtitle him later. Did most of those things manipulating markets helping terrorists regimes defrauding regulators. Did most of this take place during that two thousand and two to two thousand twelve period when he was the CEO will the got started. Then and that was Ackerman's decision to prioritize short-term profits above all else was the catalyst for all sorts of bad behavior within the bank and it wasn't just the people were rushing to make money at any cost and although they were doing that it was also that the bank at that moment because it was so obsessed with meeting quarterly profit targets. It stopped investing in things that cost money. For example they stop investing in technology. And so the banks internal computer systems became just this. Archaic jumbled mess and that sounds kind of technical and maybe not that important but the reality is immense that Deutsche Bank. If you if you were asked to say Deutsche Bank what how much money have you lent to say Russia? There's no easy way to answer that you can just type it into a computer. None of these computer systems are talking to each other. And that's a pretty scary thing for bank. And they also completely failed to invest in compliance an anti money laundering staff. And because those are things that cost money they're not going to produce revenue and in fact they they do the opposite prison revenue. They take away revenue as their job. If they're doing it properly is to say no to potentially problematic and potentially very lucrative transactions this focus on quarterly profits and profit above all else. Is that very different from what other banks were doing. During this period Deutsche Bank went from
"Maybe eaters going to get a poster Yeah it's going to get the Rock Hammer and chisel his way out and he's GonNa Dole. There's that's right this tower but of course the Finney part of this that I think you're alluding to is that this is a tower. It's not it's not a dark tower. It is is a this is a symbolic tower. For the Kingdom of d'alene they hold grand ceremonies at. Its foot. They it's it's a centerpiece to their skyline. It's something that they celebrate not fear and apparently it's also high-class exclusive prison. But it's the club Fed of d'alene when Peter makes his ascent up the staircase. It's a solemn moment for him and he is wise enough and aware enough at that moment that he he gives it the gravity of of that deserves. He kind of like counts. Every step in each step is meaningful for him and it is much like when Roland finally reached and climbed to the top of the dark tower. Is that at one point when I think it was just when Peter was arrested and everybody in d'alene was sort of like confused and upset that outside. The wind screamed and gobbled old wives cringed in their beds and slept poorly and told their husbands that. Rian on the dark witch of the coups was riding. Her hateful broom this night and wicked. Work was a foot. Of course I said to myself good old rea- with a slightly different spelling but I'm pretty sure it's the same person which are the coups delve into the coups. Yeah it's it's really the coups back in action or at least referenced as a scary story you tell your kids to get him to shut up and go to sleep right yeah. We learned her for her full. First name reaction reassured for reaction. The last dark tower thing that I had in my notes was align there were perhaps seventy people in that great dining hall rough dressed riders. What we would call nights? I suppose. And I thought or gunslingers. Ooh rough dressed riders in the great dining hall. A definitely reminded me a lot of Rowland's childhood in Gilead how the gunslingers were travelers and peacekeepers and to the kingdom base. Yeah but they dressed like clint eastwood in the Spaghetti Westerns. And I I think these gunslingers we know that the lane is in somewhere on the same maps Gilead. So why wouldn't there be so as we said before? This whole book is.
"Dark tower. And sean. It's time for some fun stuff. It is all right. Looks like we've already talked about this. Who stole my thunder? One of the things of fun stuff that I listed in my notes was Jimmy's rat rat death. We talked about that earlier but yeah when when he is just consumed head to toe by rats when he's trying to escape the basement. That was a really really spooky scene. I wish that something like that. We're still in the book and it was just so much funds. I just wanted to call it out here. Yeah the afterward king talks a lot. What about comic books and those are definitely trash and probably bad trash and a lot of instances but they but they had A deep deep influence on him specially the EC horror comics and. He writes the afterward that he likes comics because the way that they portrayed vampires was different than the other vampires he'd seen like these were American. Eric Vampires They Ha. They owned restaurants. They chop people up at tournament. Hamburgers could sound. There's blood banks. They are milking people for like all sorts of weird stuff but He liked the vampires because they were American. Vampires and in two thousand ten King Co wrote a comic series called American vampire so I thought it was a little prescient that he mentioned that there. So something obviously you could see a Lotta Times. King has ideas. We talked about this with eleven. Twenty to sixty three. See how you could see him working through these ideas before finally became a book and I wonder if he was already thinking about a something with American vampires here. I wouldn't doubt it so another fun stuff item I have. There's a line in the afterward where king talks about Callahan's fall from grace. The line is so callahan has sent hence into the land of nod nod which lies to the east of Eden and in Salem Slot Detroit serves as standing for not and anytime I hear about Detroit in the context of like well. Let's just say it's not eating. It reminds me of one of my favorite Comedies Kentucky Fried movie and there's a scene in it.
'Downton Abbey,' 'Breaking Bad,' and Why TV Is Still Jealous of Movies
"Chris. You're here along with Amanda because you know a lot about television and Amanda and I are for a little bit out on television sort of as a general rule. I'm post. TV POST TV separate succession. Now there are some television shows that I love. I started to watch when this weekend that I think is incredibly well made which is called unbelievable but I was just home with my mom for a little while and she while she's a stranger to cable news but she adorable still gets a lot of her news from the newspaper so two days later she'll be like. Did you hear about Joe. Biden and I'll like what what do you mean. Did something new happens you know. Did you hear about this phone. Call and that's just what you did with unbelievable where you were like. I'm breaking to you guys that there's this show well no now. I admit I am one one week late and you've already covered the show on the WOK yeah. We've already covered the sh the show on the site. I just didn't have the time to get to you. I hear you I'm seeing all these movies but one thing that is interesting that it's happening right now is is that I even though the just happened and even though TV is having this incredible boom time I feel like TV is still a little jealous of the movies and we know that because Downton Tanabe rather than comeback as an eight part miniseries has decided to become a full length feature film and the people said. Yes they said Yes to the tune of thirty three million dollars a lot of money for an extension of the Downton Abbey University was a show that was popular and a phenomenon sort of when it started. I believe the first episode of the Hollywood respective podcasts was a recap of the Dow naby premier guess which is just amazing what times past its Niche Butler's Butler's and and and you know that's a show that I liked and I really did you recap Amanda you recap what an amazing time capsule of our life on the Internet in creating culture and now it's a fulling feature feature film which is something that I think twenty years ago it had happened you would have said Downton Abbey really grew up and stepped up to the big leagues in this case. I wonder how you guys feel about what what it means to extend what was once a broadcast. TV Show into movie platform and also like why why this movie work. Why did it work so well. I have a couple of sites and the answer answer of why to turn it into a feature film is money which worked out because it made thirty three million dollars we had a great piece on the ringer last week by writer named Kate Loyd who's based in London and it was he's about the downtown Abbey Economy essentially in how the show changed both tourism in the UK and like she went to a lot of fancy locations and like talk to British these people but also how it changed the British TV industry and down abby the show. Was this wakeup call I think for people in the UK okay that people would from other parts of the world would watch when these costume dramas it was kind of a revival of the costume drama and also had a finance the shows so that they could me distributed around the world and so the piece argues that you know everything from peaky blinders to howards end to all of the things that we now consume and treat as part of the television firmament at least the latest generation of them are a result of Downton Abbey success right that show relaunch yeah Adia so in that way. It's not that surprising to me that it did while because it was like a legitimate phenomenon and we've lived with it for a long time in maybe season six. I wasn't as great as season one but it made a lot of money in a lot of people liked watching it. It's short relief to because the two other big releases over the weekend and that it beat out were ad Astra which was covered at length on this podcast last week and as a movie that I would recommend people see and Rambo last blood. Did you catch up with that Chris. I didn't see I saw ad Astra instead of Rambo because this was not playing anywhere near me. Oh that's a shame why was that I woke neighborhood for you. so neither of those films which are very male centric stallone doesn't play well in. Philly yeah that's a good point you'd think he'd be in every theatre getting but I guess partially one of the the reasons why down succeeded so well is because a lot of women saw this movie and it was the primary opportunity for women at checkout films one week after hustlers dominated the box office and sensing a trend here if you like this happens four five times a year when people are like there are movies for women as well yeah. I think that's true also float yes women see movies. Rah Rah route whatever old people really see movies and the theatres is there is nothing better to do with your time if you got a mom or Gramma Ma than to take them and see the Downton Abbey. That is just wholesome entertainment for everyone so I think that that is as important. The age is as important as the gender breakdown on this one. Let's let's just very quickly. Even though Chris has not seen the downton movie talk about what's good about the downs and movie you and I attempted to recap the film for Chris via slack last week. You feel like we did a good job. Ah Yeah I think so recognized all the names. All the actions made sense I just did they didn't really come together in a sort of visual sentence for me so that is actually a notable spoke to Michael Angler about this. It is a little bit of Downton on steroids. You know the theme music is amplified in such a way that maybe they had three hundred more brass instruments. Mintz played playing the theme song. There's a lot of drone shots of Downton Abbey. It is it is a a muscular rise version of this upstairs downstairs costume drama the film itself did strike me though I think you may have originally said this to me as just one long episode of Downton Abbey to me it was like a Christmas special sel which they do in the UK and I think it was the season two Christmas special of Downton Abbey which is when Matthew and Mary finally get together and like kissing the snow outside outside of the side of the House I would say it's on par with the Christmas special except for like to party set-pieces instead of one as you said and fancier dresses addresses and I guess there's like a first episode climax halfway through the movie and then a second episode kind of bringing everyone home. The thing is downstairs to get into some hijinks and then there's ramifications upstairs. It's crazy what happens on almost like it's upstairs downstairs I thought it was an enjoyable movie and I'm not surprised that it was successful. I'm surprised it was successful. It was also the biggest movie in the history of focus features which just fascinating I have spoken to some people who worked worked on this movie and they have when they acquired the rights to release this movie. They said we have our IP. We have our version of superhero movie and focus features. That's what I was. GonNa say really leans into that older audience that you're talking about the identify women as their audience much more clearly and this is a part of the same strategy so I wouldn't say necessarily the Ad Astra had this problem but I do think that it is near impossible to sell anything anymore without some pre existing kind of awareness of what you're getting when you walk into it just because there's so many options for people that if you just sorta like here's a movie about butlers and rich people story. Michelle dockery people are going to be like I don't know but if it's something that they have this decade long relationship leashes ship with if they have the kind of extra screen relationship that they have they cared about and if there is like I was I was watching a lot of linear television this week because I was with my mom. We were watching the Ken Burns documentary. There was down Abbey stuff sandwich. Every episode of the Ken Burns Documentary Music talking to the country music to let you know it's coming out. Here's the history of the show. Here's a recap of everything that happened. Here's the making of the show like they actually did their push. It just just happened on public television. We didn't see it as much necessarily as like Robert Downey junior driving around in an Audi with a Samsung phone pushing vendors do you think that this is now now a sort of MCI -ation of Downton or is this just a one off thing that they struck gold on this one movie or is there going to be another one have been teasing the sequel for weeks. Now that's yeah yeah they've been talking about how the possibilities open and I think you know which is code for. Yes it will happen and they certainly leave the door open in the movie. Everyone is in in a happy place but more hijinks cannon sue and I'm sure well a Dan. I'm curious how far you can probably only take down into world war. Two 'cause post World War. Two I think all of those states just for their museums museums the economy economy of the upper class in the UK just breaks down and it's just not how upstairs downstairs doesn't really apply as much anymore the film kind of glances at the end to the how much longer can this go on which I thought was an interesting potential way to seal office equal in the end zone dunkirk what we'll talk about this more. Maggie Smith is in this movie Maggie Smith Chris do modify spoil Israel okay. I guess if you are really really strict about spoilers. Turn it off now. Even but Maggie Smith gives a speech that's kind of like a farewell speech but notably nothing actually conclusively happens to whether Maggie Smith math will be in future episodes of down nappy. TV show or something happens to her but then they're like. We'll see what happens yeah she could've done urge becomes iron man. It's incredible credibly. She defeats the end of the movie. It's wild. It's nineteen twenty seven in this movie that's right. They've got like twenty more years. Yeah okay. What's interesting to me about. This is is the movies in theaters. It's an extension of a television show there have been there's been the super sizing of TV shows into movie form a lot over the last year. This isn't the first first time it's happened. In the ninety. s we saw the kind of like met a rift commentary on things by having. Beverly hillbillies movies and Brady Bunch movies now what we have is just a more clear extension of the stories that originally told there was a dead movie earlier. This year was a between two ferns movie also released over the weekend which is not quite the same serialized television but is in the same tradition in a way away and then in October. We have a breaking bad movie called El Camino Dave Dina do this for a long time. They've been dying to get this kind of multiplatform storytelling going because of the amount of money there is if you can actually do what they wanted to do with dark tower where you can tell something that has has a feature presentation that maybe is the sort of the danger of the story but like you have other storylines going on TV and that you could actually create a like twelve month a year sport out of your story. That's why they want you know and now there are different things now.
A Review of 'It: Chapter 2'
"Today. We're discussing. Sometimes it comes back for you where it's more boring name it. Chapter Two starring Jessica chastain James mcevoy Bill Hater Isaiah Mustafa Jay Ryan James Ran Soon Andy Bear. Some of these people have to just be happy their names on a poster oester. I mean who the hell some of these guys the old spice guy because his name above the title and Bill Skarsgard as pennywise directed by a Andy Machete this is Arnie Coz now playing and the fun is just beginning Ed Stewart and this is the host who still insists he sees the ghost Jacob it aftermath aftermath wow as Stephen King Fan as somebody really into Stephen King around the time this came out of you. Remember dark tower came out right before this. I was actually buying a couple of Stephen King Trotsky to go on my bookshelf with all my Stephen King Books. They're made like a Jack torrens action figuring things and I'm like you know they don't make too much of this so I'll get a couple of these and put them up there. It exploded merchandising for every Stephen King thing. There's a hot wheels Christine. There are more pennywise figures that I can count what I'm not kidding. Wow Yeah so ooh many pennywise toys of all price points this has opened a floodgate on Stephen King that has never been opened before merchandising him to the Gen xers. I think so what does that mean. I mean we all know what merchandise meant and fanning the love of Star Wars. What would it mean to hold a bobblehead. Ah pennywise Ernie called GEN-X. You GotTa Buy Your Co.. POPs gets by stuff by toys by Chachis of stuff you like and Stephen King's. The big caught thing now so let's just how the market is. Is it selling yeah okay. I mean I didn't buy any of it. The moment you know what I liked about it when it was niche and there was like two things I loved it when every week. I'm getting an email this new pennywise doll for two hundred dollars. I'm like fuck it pennywise varian Syrian funk. Oh pops are there. Oh my God so many long tongue pennywise bloody pennywise smiling pennywise frowning penny wise spider pennywise okay this kind. It helps me understand why you were so into skarsgard. They've really been able to magnify what was a very small part of the film really wasn't in that many scenes and by my impression Russian he was only good in about half of them so how he has lived on in the minds of the viewer is through merchandise he made an impression he scarred us and and now two years later he's coming back to finish the job yeah and again. I'd equate to a Freddy Kruger. I'd think it's the closest thing we've had to a horror icon. In a long time and Freddie never had that much screen time it was people talking about Freddie and Robert Englund Cameo films. You know so and I think merchandising we've made every Jason we've made every Friday. Oh my God pennywise we have something new to sell but the highest grossing nightmare on Elm Street movie wouldn't begin to touch the gross of of this fill it goes well beyond the reach of a horror audience. I mean this. There were people in my neighborhood I walk my dog and churchgoing folk who I would never suspect suspect to have opened a cover of Stephen King said. Oh it's coming out soon people. I would not imagine demographics that do not see any other horror. Film are are coming out this weekend and why the impression I got was they really loved the kits. Yeah I think that I it was huge and almost every viewing was sold allow. When I went to go see this Friday night theaters packed yeah you can keep going on about penny wise and I think you're right for a certain level of people that loves horror ICONOGRAPHY. That's a thing thing but I feel like in mass. The reason why this is so beloved because it goes those children were so good and it connected to childhood so well and that's the struggle of chapter or two. I know that the kids are coming back in some role but the torch is being passed. It will now be for new actors. That didn't even have the job when the first movie he came out. What's funny is before it chapter one came out the sequel was in pre production. You know the studio knew what they had right and so when they were you're doing pre release interviews with the cast they asked the young kids who would you like to play you and Young Beverly said Jessica chastain and that kind of makes sense I mean chastain had had worked with Michetti before and I mean how many red headed actress sent me as I mean. It's either her Dallas Broward Sophie Turner from X. Expend Dark Phoenix twenty seven years later. That's great highlight store here. Maybe and then Wolford said Bill Hater. Those actually happened yeah yeah. I don't know how much they had already envisioned for chapter to win. Two years ago it blew up. They had talked about it. The whole way through one is what it was. They kept saying if we do a two. Let's leave this hook here. Let's leave this here. Let's leave this vague enough here. They knew if the movie was successful while filming part one in sixteen. If this did well we would want to bring the kids back would want to have some flashbacks but we're gonNA focus mostly on the adults and they had vague the ideas but they did never script yeah they knew the parts of the book they had left behind and so that was a lot of material is a big ass book. They could make lots of movies out of what was remaining remaining of that but they didn't have a script. They didn't have a cast again. It wasn't called Chapter One. They shape the experience as total you could just watch that movie the and be done and that was the studio's. Choice Warner Brothers did that the makers want to call it the losers club so that it had a hook there for a second one and and I think the compromise was chapter one at the end credits. I stand by that. I think that movie does work as a standalone if it had bombed and we never got chapter two I think that would still be a satisfying the movie as far as the art goes and I appreciate that I like it when movies tell a story instead of teas another film to come out at some other point I also think I think that there is a lot of ret conning done in the film. We're here to talk about today. Oh yeah they didn't create a first chapter that set up a lot of things they're we're going to do in this film. That's why there's so many flashbacks yeah they had to correct it by bringing the kids back and they did d. h. them with CGI because kids at that age you know two three years later look very different. I noticed height differences. I noticed like some who were shorter than beverly in part one out taller than beverly only in part to but they made the faces look younger yeah. I noticed that at times. They look a little bit plastics. Oh okay that makes sense because they D- aged Regata de age. These teenage kids not only like that but I noticed some of the lip sync work. That ain't his voice. You know your voice changes to three years later. They can't say the lines like they would've in the summer of one thousand nine hundred nine so oh yeah you just get people that kinda sound like them but are not them. Jack Dillon Grazer was the one who looked most distracting to me like for some reason his face just look blake an old man made into a child and but this is expected to be huge based off the first one I mean the first one broke records chapter. Two is breaking a record. It's the Whitest ever released for an R rated film with over forty five hundred screens in the US alone and they were saying hundred ten million two hundred twenty million this weekend. It's already falling short of expectations though it is it made less in preview screenings than the first film. It's estimated now. It's going to make less over the weekend than the first film. What did the first film do. The first film got one hundred thirty five million the first weekend. I guess I didn't see that opening weekend side there. Wasn't the big crowd. I didn't realize I was so big right away. I thought that kind of had a slow burn so it's looking like this will be perhaps second-biggest and they're now readjusting estimates down to ninety ninety million. Maybe as low as eighty million compared to one hundred thirty five million for the sequel. I gotta think some of it is you don't see kids and is not an eighties period piece. The nostalgia culture isn't there to draw in the big audiences. I know when I saw it chapter one opening weekend. Neri empty seat in the house. When I saw this opening night it was about a two thirds full on the APP but a lot of people didn't show up like all the seats around me were Phil on the APP and people just didn't come. I think that's the result of that. AMC stubs premier as you can buy tickets for no money so you reserve seats and like I'm decided not to go interesting house in the same screening as you Arnie for Thursday I max we didn't see each other until after after it was all over with but I did also go back and saw matinee on Friday. There was almost nobody there so I have not had the experience that this is something the masses asses are turning out to but the numbers are saying something different even at one hundred million if that's less than expected. That's an amazing opening. That's huge yeah for an R rated Orville. Matt is amazing and like I said packed when I saw it. I do wonder when the reviews started coming out and I always avoid reuse but you always see headlines in that. There were some concerns turns and I wonder if that scares some people away like they were not buzzing like with chapter one. I didn't hear anything I didn't see any reviews before going in but this movie cost cost twice as much as the first one bigger actors in it so if it makes less this one costs seventy million dollars they had budget built in for de aging kids and they had named named actors who we know and some of whom need to redeem themselves from an earlier x men film this summer and needs a show they still can do good budget built in so they didn't have that crap. Raffia from the TV series and it's also longer they can't screen it as many times in a day because it adds. It feels like another hour. It's not quite that it's more more like forty five minutes but still it's two hours fifty minutes. It's almost three hours. We're talking to vendors level length here well. The first chapter one was also over two two hours but this goes beyond that by at least forty minutes so again for lots of reasons. If you know the book and hold the opinion I do the best stuff.
"The. Welcome everyone to two guys to the dark tower. Kane a podcast where we discussed the characters connections deeper, meanings of Stephen king's magnum opus the dark tower. I'm Jay Rousseau. And I'm Shawn Macur. You can find more information about the podcast at two guys to the dark tower came dot com. You can also Email us at two guys dark tower at gmaiLcom in this episode. We'll cover heavenly shades of night are falling in hearts in Atlantis as well as wrap up. Our discussion of the book, let's start the show. Bobby Garfield returns to his hometown for the first time since he and his mother moved away forty years, earlier, silly John's funeral is a nominal reason is there, but as he visits different areas of town, and then encounters Carol Gerber, not the knee Schoonover. We realized that he is reflecting on his relationships with Carol and Ted broad again, the magic of the universe, and memory in history. Nice day, this is the fifth story in Hartson, Atlanta's, although this story is so slight that it's not even really a story as much. It is just sort of epilogue tacked on at the end that ties up the loose ends of the first four stories in particular wraps up. What was introduced in the first story low men in yellow coats? Yes, I kind of think of it like a coda. And really this coda if we want to refer to it is, dad is about maybe leaving behind the past as our characters have moved on from not only what happened to them when they were children. But what has happened to them since they were adults? And in turn the whole idea of what happened to America in the sixties as a result of Vietnam. Yes, bobby's final act of placing the baseball mitt back, under the, the grove of trees. He slightly acknowledging the sort of science fiction element of what he is experiencing here that there's some sort of weird thing going on that he can explain chooses the just let happen. But it's also him relinquishing his past that baseball glove is a bright, shiny reminder of his childhood. And he hasn't had that baseball glove since he was a child. And we know the journey that, that glove has taken all the people who have owned it in traveled all the way to Vietnam and back in and things like that inherit is back in bobby's possession, and the first chance he gets. He sends it away again, this because he doesn't wanna maybe live in the past anymore, or he doesn't want to risk returning to the past in any way. He's he is, as you say, leaving the past behind the. And actually out of all the characters in the book, Carolyn, Bobby of probably moved on from the past a little bit better than the other characters. Carol has created a whole new persona and identity after she is presumed dead. And when Bobby wants to talk to her about what happened. She doesn't want to she's like, no, that's in the past. I don't talk about that anymore, and Bobby, when we last saw him was leading a troubled early adulthood, in and out of juvie and, you know, a strange relationship with his mother. But he find out his gotten married, and has become a carpenter and also dime, and we don't see Bobby dwelling on the events of the past, except when he comes back to town hits all the old haunts and remembers. Oh, yeah. There is the restaurant where I were ten is all the low men or eighty there's the place where I got work, Carol got beat up and there's mild apartment at cetera. Neither one of them talks about what's happened in the ensuing years. And what their lives have been like something just occur. To me in terms of the structure here, because at the end of hearten, Atlantis that story takes place all in the concurrent moments of the college years. And then jumps all the way to the present a where we encounter Pete Riley skip. Kirk as older men skips in the hospital. It's sort of like a retelling of the of win. Stokely Jones is in the hospital, when they were in college or of that moment, we get a KOTA built into that story, the story happens, and then there's the coda moment we see where these men have ended up much later in their lives, and who they became and we get a little bit of a taste of what happened in the years between right? Or why didn't king structure low men in yellow coats that way and have this KOTA between Bobby and Carol? And I think my answer to that, is that king didn't wanna. Giveaway. What happened to Carol great? And it would have been too easy for us to just find out that things turned out, okay for Bobby after all immediately after the events of Ted's of duck Shen than Ted sending him the rose petals rights, like, oh, all right now, bobby's of forty year, he's forty years older and is doing. Okay, it right. I think having the separate having all the way at the end of the book after all the other stories is far more powerful from a storytelling perspective, so sort of answering my question with that. But it's interesting that we had to wait until here for this almost not long enough to be its own story piece, a lot of it is not just we find out bobby's, okay? Or we find out, it's really the relationship between Bobby and Carol that we find out is okay because we have assumed that. Carol his died, and is no longer alive. And that's what Bobby thinks until what happens with sully, John. And specifically the fact that he gets the glove which has a message from Ted in it. And that's when he thinks, oh, Carol might still be around. And if I go back home maybe show, meet me there, it
"The. Welcome everyone to the dark tower came a podcast where we discussed the characters connections deeper, meanings of Stephen king's magnum opus the dark tower. I'm Jay Rousseau and I'm Shawn mcgurk. You can find more information about the podcast at two guys to the dark tower came dot com. You can also Email us at two guys dark tower at gmaiLcom in this episode. We'll cover why were in Vietnam in Hartson Atlantis. Let's start the show. Sully John attended the funeral fellow Vietnam veteran, dick Gano, which causes him to reminisce about his time in Vietnam, in particular, he thinks about a helicopter crash in the ensuing firefight that put his units, endanger. And then an incident later in the day when soldiers including Ronnie, Mallon Fant terrorize village before Lieutenant defend Baker also attending to funeral as another soldier shot before the incident escalates to my Lai levels sully John is haunted by Vietnamese woman. That Malan fan bayonets to death seeing her throughout the rest of his life after leaving the funeral. Sully John is stuck in traffic jam, where he hallucinates items falling from the sky, including Bobby Garfield baseball glove in a low man's yellow coat. The ghost of the Vietnamese woman speaks for the first time saying show keep sully. John safe, the hallucination stops and sully. John dies in the driver's seat of his car with Bobby Garfield glove in his lap. But they guy covered everything that happened in this story J. Yeah. That's pretty much the full text. And even reading that you could see that there is a little lot lot of confusing, because there's a lot of flashbacks in the stories not told linearly as we sort of jumped back and forth from solely John going to the funeral back to Vietnam being at the funeral reminiscing about things that happened in Vietnam than hallucinating things that happen. And so there's a lot of time jumps as well as back and forth between what's real and what's not real. In addition, those flashbacks. Yeah. And I kind of Sirte feel like it's still up for debate as to whether or not that was a hallucination because the baseball glove appears and remains, so that part's that part's definitely real. And everybody seems to be undamaged on hurt in alive after the fact. But how did the baseball glove kit there? Yeah. That's a really good question that I'm not sure I know the answer to, and it's not even just the baseball glove that he possibly could have created out of his mouth. Mind, solely John because it's the one that's been changed by blind Willie and has bobby's name, scratched out and rewritten. And it's an it's been aged, it's not the it's not the version that sully John would have remembered he remembers details of the or he sees details. The glove that are how the glove is now as we learned in the last story. So it is more than just a remembrance or something that he dreamed into being it seems like it is the actual real glove. Yeah. From this time period, so. And we'll loop back to that a little bit more when we get to our dark towers Fini's exciting, but we want to start off with the fact that soley, John is still in Vietnam, even though the war's been over for twenty five years, when the story takes place, the epigraph in the first line of the story are when someone dies, you think about the past, and this story starts with sully. John getting ready to attend a funeral. And he's. Thinking about the past is pagawa has died now. He's thinking about everything that happened to him in his last days in Vietnam, and effected its hat him. And when he in defend Baker are talking in the alleyway outside the funeral parlor, they kind of come up with this idea that the war is over until everybody who fought in it is died. So that's why that's why they're still in Vietnam. They, they never left because the war continues for as long as they do, and it's kind of like something you reminded me of the other day, like there's that saying that you don't really die until everybody who knew as forgotten you or has died themselves as long as you are in somebody's memory, you still exist in, in a way in the Vietnam, war, maybe most wars, maybe all wars are kind of, like that, that the soldiers who come back from those wars are haunted, by the war in, they can never really escape it. You're never not in Vietnam. Tom for the rest of their lives to the point where one of them suggests, maybe everything after that helicopter ride out of, of the was, it has been a hallucination like bridges dreaming this. We're in a recovery ward somewhere at hospital. Getting patched up and everything the last you know, decades have been just a, a drug induced dream. Yes. Another thing that continues in this story, or that is a continuation from previous sections of arts in Atlantis is the us versus them motif, here, we get it in the form of veterans and non veterans, and it used to be like, during the story of hearts in Atlanta's a lot of it was the people who were for the war versus the people who protested the war now
"Days. So just to build on that this story. Unlike the previous one is not directly connected to the dark tower. Right. That one is definitely Dr tower. Jason and there are explicit references to the dark tower series. This one has some more obscure ones. But it does have as you just pointed out with your example, echoes of low men in yellow coats. And if we're gonna talk about echoes till you low men in yellow coats, that's close enough to being Dr tower need to meet. So just to build on that. The other thing that happened in low men in yellow coats echo tier is there's letter said, at the end of the story in the previous story. Carol forward something from Ted that gets to Bobby and that happens in the last few pages and Bobby opens it up. And it's the roses in this one. Our narrator. Pete gets a letter from Carol sort of explains. What's going on and her thoughts about that? So I thought that that was. If not quite thin, a nice little echo between these two stories. Absolutely one. I think more explicit. Dr any is the Pete's father. We learn with severely injured in a work accident and due to that injury. He was in a coma for nineteen days. Nineteen you say nineteen I do interesting. So I will admit that I did not catch that, but Pete's father showing up at his characterization. Sorta took me off guard is like I was entering a whole nother story. Here's a whole nother character that doesn't seem directly impacted with the rest of the story. But, you know, we get a lot of detail on what happened to Pete's father how he acts now would a different person he is and his silent for most of the time he doesn't talk much anymore, but when he does he has really good insight when Pete breaks up with his high school girlfriend, his nails it on the no, like oh, yeah, Anne-Marie. Yeah. I never I never much liked her, and you can't trust any of those Souci girls anyway. So. You'll be better off without her your. Well shut of her. Yes, I, I could just imagine him doing it in his like, you know, thick rural Maine accent bio perfect. Yes. And also Pete is like the only character in any of these stories so far in parts in Atlantis in, I think, hell most of the dark tower that actually has a father, who's a good role model or has a father at all right. You know how many how many of our characters have fathers who left or fathers who died or fathers who were pieces of crap. Right. Jake stands jerk, total jerk, you know. So here we have a character who is he's the main character of the story end he has a father and his father is he was physically injured, but he still a good person, any still good father, and he's still a, a source of comfort and understanding to son. And that's something that we don't see much of in our journey to the dark tower. No true. We get a mention of the soap opera dark shadows. A vampire soap opera K actually spells out, exactly what dark shadows is if you're not familiar with it, and really dark shadows is not that dissimilar to Salem slot. King is called salems lot Peyton place. But with vampires where he's talking basically a soap opera except with vampires, and that's exactly what dark shadows was. Although if you spent any time watching the original dark shadows, like my wife, and I did when we were in grad school, you realize that dark shadows sort of bat shit. Crazy doesn't make a lot of sense. It really goes for it really ends up going, very soap opera. Leans more on soap opera than on the vampire stuff. Well, it's got a lot of supernatural stuff in. It's got the vampire stuff in. But at some point, you're just like man. This is really soapy. Another dark tower any is that Pete expressly states that he is writing this story thirty three years since the events in the story took place. And we know that the story takes place in nineteen sixty six so thirty three years, later means he's writing it in nineteen ninety nine which, as I recall is a pretty bad year for king, and also a significant year number in the dark tower that is absolutely correct. And a final, Dr any that I had was up all the connections to Odeta slash data slash Susanna. And one of them is that when the boys are trying to help stoke out and lift him off the ground in out of the water. He fights back. He makes it nearly impossible for a boys to help him. And that reminded me a lot of data Walker on the beach in to it was hard enough to push her wheelchair. Through the sand and gravel and the broken earth in the roots and everything like that on top of that. She was throwing herself out of the chair, not gonna chair over turning the brakes on, you know, like everything she could do to make it harder to help her. I don't think Stokely was being consciously that mischievous in evil in combative, but he was definitely making it harder for others to help him. And the other thing is the protests, Odeta shared a lot of the same experiences during the civil rights protests that she participated in that all of the Vietnam protesters went through. So all the things that we learn about that Pete lived through their echoes of that back to Odessa civil rights, protests experiences. Of course, they were protesting very different things, and they're very different people in different motivations. But the act of protesting against the government, the act of trying to change things for the better still met with almost the identical form of. Resistance and. Similar treatments being jailed for your protests being beaten up by the cops things like that. So I, I saw a lot there. And those two things did not happen too far apart in time. So the, the, the mechanisms of the government and the police in thority hadn't really evolved much between the time period when data was protesting a time period that Pete was protesting. Unlike now, like if people, you know, wear pink pussy, hats protests, the current presidential administration. It's a little bit different scene. So thinking about the time period and the near overlap there there's a lot in common. So I count that as Finney as well. Yeah, I think so definite echoes between this story and, and the last story and the dark tower, maybe you and I are well-versed and looking for this stuff now but they're definitely there. Yep. Well as always, we'll get to the fun stuff now. Yes, let us partake in the stuff that is fun.
"The. Welcome everyone to two guys to the dark tower Kane a podcast or we discussed the characters connections deeper, meanings of Stephen king's magnum opus the dark tower. I'm Jay Rousseau and I'm Shawn mcgirt. You can find more information about the podcast at two guys to the dark tower came dot com. You can also Email us at two guys dark tower at gmaiLcom in this episode. We will finish the title story from hearts in Atlantis parts. Twenty three through forty four. Let's start the show. Loses virginity to Carol Gerber, and then she leaves college or thanksgiving break. Pete decides to get on track with the schoolwork. But once he gets back to school. It's back to hearts for him antiwar anti LBJ graffiti appears on the side of a dorm. And the obvious suspect is Stokely Jones, but despite most of the dorm, laughing at his misfortune when Stokely slips and falls into a puddle of water, they have a Spartacus moment and stick up form skipping. Pete us the opportunity to quit hearts and stay in school. The story ends with an older Pete visiting skip in the hospital and reminiscing. When you say it like that, it seems a little dry Jay, but it was an interesting story, and I enjoyed it and I was turning pages throughout. But ultimately, this isn't like low men in yellow coats where there was a build up to a very tense and dramatic moment when the, the low men confront and take Ted away, another dramatic moment when the boys are picky, on Caroline, and Bobby needs to save her here. We just sort of get an everyday regular story that AMAN is reminiscent, gone really small moments in his life, losing virginity playing cards with his buddies at school sticking up for somebody it becomes a full story. And he kinda yada, yada over some of the more important things later in his life when he like when he took his, his protesting even further when he got arrested in beaten up and things like that, he just glosses over that part. Because it's not central to this story, but to your point, unlike lamenting yellow coats, that built up to this great crescendo. This is more like the main character walking to the edge of the cliff kind of hanging out there for a minute. And then just deciding the walk away from the edge of the cliff, again the cliffs there, but he was able to just move away from it. And he did and not, not quite the same stakes. No. And you your point I mean, he walks away from the cliff and deady, basically walks over to a riot over there, that was on the other side of that he was that he was standing on. And you know gets beaten by the cops and gets thrown in jail and. His best friend, who he played cards with in college becomes a famous artist. And, you know, sort of world renowned then has a heart attack. But all that is secondary and off page and the key moment. With him reuniting with skip is just them at the end saying, you know, much like the ending of low men in yellow coats, where Bobby in his mother sort of say, hey, we tried retried. It's just the two of them saying the same sort of thing like we did the best. We could on. It's just you know, male bonding piece at the end. But again, not these big dramatic moments that you might think of normally and again, king does that stuff. Well, one of one of the best loved movies of Stephen king's at adaptations is stand by me. And you know, there's not much in that movie. That is dramatic. Right. There's, there's a train sing seen when the running across the trestle. But what would you think of that movie? And remember it, it's to sort of. The boys hanging out and being together. I guess getting leeches on their body. But yeah, that does have that does have a lot in common with this. In, in terms of the central character of the story is also the author writing about the story as reminiscence, and stand by me is constructed the same way. So we start with the adult author in his studied, working have the flashback of the movie and end back with the adult author again, the great, Richard Dreyfuss. Yes. But here we know that Pete Riley isn't going to go to Vietnam die because he is alive. Thirty three years later writing the story. Right. We at least know that much that's built into the structure. So there's no suspense there. But we don't know if he's going to fell out of school. We don't know what's gonna happen to all of his friends. We don't know that he's not going to end up in Vietnam. Right. And we and we definitely didn't know that it was going to. Throw himself fully into protesting the Vietnam, war and get into all sorts of crazy things from getting beaten up by the cops cetera. The happened after
"Section. There are a lot of connections to the dark tower and I realized when I asked you, a couple of episodes ago like, hey, when you read this book, did you realize it was dark tower related? And you're like, oh, when I first read it, I didn't realize that at first, and I'm like, oh, by the time you've got to this section. It must have been like hitting you over the head. Like, hey, here's a dark tower reference, and here's another one. Here's another one, and I'm just gonna not even make reference slight references, but outright discussions of the dark tower here. Yeah, it couldn't have been more obvious. If Roland himself were reading the story to me. Yeah, we'll just focus on a few them because the tail end of this story is almost all a Finney in and of itself. Right. So, so one of the ones I wanted to call out was that Bobby has a lot of realizations and intuitions that are correct. When he opens up the envelope of rose petals. And one of. Those is thought that there's not just one world, not just one. There are other worlds than this millions of worlds all turning on the spindle of the tower, and this is exactly our understanding of what the tower is this is what we learned in the dark tower books. Bobby has direct connection to the rose petals of the field of the condo Ray and maybe through the magic of the tower and his physical connection to these pedals in, he, he understands even if he doesn't grasp it, and maybe he gets some sense of how big the situation really is just how important Ted is to the story, perhaps, and from our perspective, having finished reading the books, we realize that despite the nature of this story being a tragedy that there is actually a happy ending of sorts here because we know that a dark towers been saved, and that be Ted brought in. Been there because he labeled a collect these rose pedals, and obviously that could not have happened timing wise in the book until after a goal Santo has been freed, the breakers are no more and Roland. His save the dark tower and made his way there. Ted brought again, obviously followed after there and got there to get the pedals. So we know Oilers for the dark tower. I don't really right? But like I mean that's sort of my take away from this, that there is a little bit of hope here at the end. In addition to the fact that, as we said earlier, you know, Bobby, his mother after he'll possess letter sort of reunite and say, you know, where we gonna do she says the best we can he says the best we can? So there's a little bit of hope here at the end. Yeah. Joking aside about spoilers king wrote this book before four zero being book five let alone six and seven. So if you had read this book in publication order, like we did originally and you see this does that kind of spoil. Well, the ending. I don't know. Like I guess you'd have to make that assumption. I don't you know, like in less the road. Like, if you, you would had, I mean, I guess the rose pedals already been discussed. Right. Eddie Eddie had already have his vision of the tower surrounded by roses. So we knew what that meant. But I don't know if people would have made that leap, but earlier on another thing is when Ted meets with the low men, he actually says, at that point, there is a gunslinger, and the low Mente gunslinger pod is like yet, he and his friends have reached a borderland of Ed world. So Ted is somehow already seen the fact that Roland in the Khattak are approaching in on their late there. So I mean that's like really sort of spelling it out, like, hey, I know about rolling then he's on his way he's going to potentially save the day here big and he's telling us the reader pretty much exactly what the role in status is at the end of book or so we're not learning. New information from Ted in, in regards to that, you know, it's not like oh, they're hanging out in, in Sturgis right now. Right. Like he doesn't say that. But it's interesting that Ted somehow has even this information you know, he's been trapped in Oakland. Santo was transported through magic teleportation doorway that she made for him and ended up in nineteen sixties, Connecticut. When did he have a chance to know what roles doing? Good question there. Seems to be all sorts of time and space things here that -combobulate your mind. If you get too deep into I know we try to map it out at one point in it's just all over the map here. But that sorta leads me to a question that I had is, you know, it seems like the publication order of these books kind of matters. If king is gonna be this blatant with dark tower content. It kinda makes us into a dark tower book. And if you read this out of order, like, we just have does it change your experience. Does it lessen your experience? Does it matter should it matter? I don't know. Yeah, it it's tough right? Like, if you're gonna tell a story, if you feel that something essential part of the story. I think you've gotta plug it in and make that. Like king sorta has done with the wind through the keyhole. And when he has said in his own words that he thinks that, that is volume four point five in the series. Yeah. Is not said like this volume four point seven five or or something like that. But it kinda hits but it kinda is yes like it at whether or not it is essential, or, you know, little sisters is sort of a prequel at it's not essential. But it sort of said in the dark tower world. Is there anything in here that is essential for us understanding, the plot of the dark tower and telling that story? And I'm, I'm not sure that there is. I think it adds a nice piece. We get a much better understanding of Ted in his background, and why he is the way he is in book seven. But yeah, that's a tough one read it read in this out of order. I there's probably readers would have it both ways. Yeah. You and I struggled with that exact issue when we were making plans for our podcasts. Right. We debated many times should we should we tackle low men in yellow coats before we start book, five or at least book, seven or should we stick to the core books in we alternately came down on the decision to stick with the core books and will will eventually make our way to story and others, like it after finishing book seven, and
"Is the fact that the dark tower is overlaid on top of this, right? That in bobby's dreams, their, their visions of the dark tower and we'll get to that in a second. And we wonder is this possibly a way of different realities that he seeing is that part of the same reality. But the there's a Finney that allows them to see into into this. I mean, we know that how magic works in the dark tower university, there that could be part of it the other pieces, when Bobby Ted or having their talk about his mother at cetera. That's right around the same time when the low men start to do their search, and it seems as if the low men have different powers in what we might be used to. Yeah. They seem to be out, not necessarily broadcasting, but searching and probing the minds of the people around them, and Ted warns Bobby to put up a wall in his mind and not think about things, so that they they're not aware of his presence, and I'd never got that sense in the book that that's how the low men work. But perhaps these are. Different low manner different type of low. What your thoughts on that? Jay, I wondered the exact same thing. We never got the sense that the low men in the dark tower books when we really spent some time around them and Ted explained who they were, and how their society works in their religious aspirations and all that stuff. I don't remember him ever saying anything about them, having psychic powers or the ability to mentally track their quarry. I'd never got the sense that they had any psychic powers, but here when they're tracking Ted suddenly they are able to scratch the back of your eyes, right? Like they make your eyes itching. And, you know, the zone outs are Ted putting that mental wall, and Bobby needs to do the same thing, but they can't be a different kind of low men. Right. You would think the it's, it's the Ken Toyota like they are exactly the same beings that we meet. In book seven of the dark tower. I don't know. They seem much more formidable. They seem much more capable here than they ever are represented in dark tower, which is kind of interesting because king wrote this before he wrote books six and seven unless he wanted to diminish them by cutting them to be lesser beings in the dark Tarbes. I don't understand why he would do that. Yeah. To block his mind from the low men bobby's thoughts start to go to Brigitte Bardot in the poster. He saw where she showed a lot of leg. She's only wearing a towel coming out of the shower, and so sort of this inkling of sex in his mind around this, and then Brigitte Bardot transforms into his girlfriend, Carol, which is quite what he was expecting. But what's interesting about that. That is a direct connection to the dark tower. Is he starts hearing the platter song that we've been talking about before? And then as you thinking about that song, and he's thinking about Carole, he thinks other worlds than this, which is getting really close to that direct connection with the dark tower and king is making explicit what these connections in bobby's sort of getting drawn into the star tower world, right? Without ever really knowing her understanding what's going on. Do you think that other worlds than this? Versus other worlds than these is really a distinction. No. Not really much of distinction, if we want to connect this back to the idea of down there. It's almost a bobby's realizing that there is more to the world than what he originally thought for Roland and Jake and Eddie. And Susannah, it becomes a lot more relevant. Right. The other worlds. This is share hail there. There are actually separate world. We're gonna go through doors to jump in and out of them for Bobby being introduced to other worlds outside of his circumscribed neighborhood, but also other worlds than potentially, you know, I think it's interesting, it's connected to the movie theaters, which again movie theaters open up doors to other worlds, his connection with books which opens up connections to other worlds in this for him. He sees other worlds in this as there's his world. And there's these other worlds that are out there that are not physically the world in his mind yet there. Something different than what he's used to beyond his, his fear of awareness. Right. Yes. And it's books, it's movies, and it's other people in other neighborhoods, he's not aware of the whole different dimensions quite yet. Whether he will be or not, we don't we know that, but he doesn't. So, so we've been talking about it for a while should we officially transition to the dark tower? Binny's section of our show.
"The. Welcome everyone to two guys to the doctor came a podcast. We discussed the characters connections in deeper meetings of Stephen king's magnum opus the dark tower. I'm Jay Rousseau and I'm Shawn mcgirt. You can find more information about the podcast that guys to the dark tower came dot com. You can also Email us at two guys dark tower at g mail dot com. In this episode. We'll cover parts one through four of low men in yellow coats found in hearts in Atlantis. Let's start the show. We are introduced Bobby Garfield an eleven year old boy living with his widowed. Mother Elizabeth in Harwich, Connecticut. An older man Ted broad again. Moves into the apartment above the Garfield and befriends Bobby, they discuss books and Ted hires, Bobby to keep an eye out for low men who may be looking for Ted. Bobby, and Elizabeth have tense relationship, but Bobby is forgiving. It has good friends. Sully. John and Carol. Bobby goes to an outing at a beach, and his able to win inexplicably at three card. Monte, it may be that some of Ted psychic powers have rubbed off on Bobby. Some interesting stuff happen here in the first four chapters of this novella that begins hearts in Atlantis. And as we do, let's talk a little bit about the book where we're discussing it for the first time this book was published in September nineteen ninety nine J. And this was about three months after Stephen King had his accident on the road. Yeah. That nineteen ninety nine is. I'd say an inauspicious year for king. Yeah. So this is listed as new fiction on the cover it consists of two novellas in three short stories. So it's not a full novel, nor is it a short story collection, and it was published in the dark tower epic between Dr tower four, which came out in ninety seven and five and two thousand three so we'll talk a little bit about that later about how that all fits in with the dark tower other books that king wrote around the same time bag of bones girl, who loved Tom, Gordon, immediately preceded, and on writing which obviously deals with the accident that happened in the summer of ninety nine and dream catcher follow it, and then also in nineteen ninety nine Jay was the storm of the century. Screenplay. So that was a, an original miniseries that kingdom for ABC that I have never seen. But that also happened in ninety nine he published it as a screenplay, which is really interesting. And I liked it quite a bit the screen player though. Miniseries or both or either I liked both. Because the TV series was pretty true to the screenplay 'cause that's how it was published. And I guess we could probably find some connections to the dark tower perhaps will will loop back around to that at some point in the future. But now I have never read it, nor did I see kingdom lot of work with ABC for a while. They're like a lot of his miniseries was on ABC. And then he did. I think I'm right in saying they were all ABC. He did a show called golden years, that I think, was also on ABC. That was a direct just written for the TV. And there was a kingdom hospital or the end that too. You're right. Yeah. All sorts of stuff and then in November of nineteen ninety nine and this was another unique. Stephen King thing. He put out a audio book called blood and smoke which consisted of three short stories, fourteen eight in the death room and lunch at the Gotham cafe. So that was shortly after this book came out. And I really liked that. I being the Stephen King fan that I was in 'em. I listened when king said these will never appear anywhere else, but this audio book, so I went out and bought the audio book, I was already a fan of audio books in king himself is also a fan. So I felt that it was a nice confluence there. And I really liked that production in fact, king reads these stories, so you get to hear the author's voice, which is pretty cool. And if you're not familiar with any of those stores highly recommend them in the death room is probably my favorite there. That one's a little disturbing to. Yeah. So hard to Atlantis itself was adapted into a two thousand one movie with Anthony Hopkins, and Anton, Yeltsin in the starring roles. And it is, basically an adaptation of this first story low men in yellow coats, as well as the last story, I think it combines them maybe at some point, we'll talk about the movie later on. But just wanted to bring that up now. And the first thing you see when you get into. This book are three epigraph in the first one is from the TV show the prisoner. The
"The. Welcome everyone to two guys. Dr tower came a podcast, where we discussed the characters connections. Deeper, meanings, a Stephen king's magnum opus, the dark tower. I'm Jay Rousseau and I'm Shawn mcgirt. You can find more information about the podcast at two guys to the doctor came dot com. You can also Email us at two guys dark tower at gmaiLcom in this episode, we'll discuss the little sisters of Luria dark tower. Short story found in the anthropology. Everything's eventual, let's start the show prior to the events of the gunslinger, roll into Shane enters the deserted town of a Luria where he is set upon by slow mutants and knocked unconscious when he awakens, you find himself under the care of none like women who aren't what they seem the injured role and quickly realizes that these women who's a greater danger than the slow mutants Jay, this is our first. Foray into sort of the extended dark tower universe, if you will, yes, pretty exciting. Yeah. I guess you could make a case maybe for book four and a half the wind through the keyhole. But I think king is sort of adopting that is an integral part of the story by numbering at four point five, but this story stands outside of the dark tower saga itself, specifically, as far as the loop that binds books. One in seven together. I was just gonna make that point four point five win through the keyhole. It has all of the same major characters that we've been spending time with since book two. It does feel like it is of a piece, and it's not just a continuation of the story or even a flashback. It does Nestle exactly in between books four and five in terms of the chronology of any Susannah. Jae-kun along with Roland. But this story as you say is outside of the loop it happens before. For the events of the gunslinger, and therefore before the moment in, in time that the tower resets, Roland story, as far as we know everything that rolling goes through in little sisters of Loria. He only did this one time once. All right. Well before we get too far into our discussion of the story itself as we have done for the books. Let's talk a little bit about the publication of distort because I do think it's interesting. So it was first published in theology called legends, which is edited by Robert Silverberg. And it had a very interesting premise Silverberg had asked numerous fantasy authors to write novellas set in their fictional universe. In addition to king in the dark tower universe. Get Georgia Martin with a song, vice in fire and Ursula Gwen and McCaffrey, Terry Pracha Orson, Scott card and others. So there's a total of eleven stories that anthology one a. Award for best anthology in nineteen ninety nine and then there are a sequel to it as well as a Sifi spinoff called far horizons. I have not seen the actual legends book, Jay. But I believe that's where you, I encountered, the story s when I first heard the story existed, I went to find it wherever I could and at the time, the only place that you could find it was in a copy of legends. And I was fortunate enough to be able to find a paperback edition or they did a strange thing, where the publisher split legends into two volumes, and then put out to different paperbacks, and I bought the one with the Steven king story in it, because that's what I was going after. And at the time, I had never heard of Georgia are Martin kind of bummed. Now that the other volume of the paperback is the one that had the Martin story, I have since found in red that I think it's one of his Dunkin egg stories. I believe you're right. But my copy of. Little sisters. It has a foreword by Silverberg in it also has some very interesting illustrations, that amac, she not too big a fan of. We'll talk about that later. But I think I had a very different experience reading the book this way than what Sean did when he read it in. Everything's eventual. Yes. Oh, everything's eventual is where it was published under kings. Oh, name with the rest of his stories that was March of two thousand two so about four years later and one thing, that's interesting about everything's eventual is that he had these fourteen stories that he wanted to put in the collection and the way that king decided how to order them in the book, which normally most authors, make a big deal of, you know, chronologically or alphabetically or demotic -ly, king took a deck of cards, and took one whole suit. And then I think he threw the joker in there and he gave each card a representation of a story. And so the little sister, Viloria was the sixth of fourteen stories in his represented by the six of spades in the deck that he used. So it was very much a random way of doing it, and that he jokes in that book that has. Next short story collection will be done using tarot cards, which, of course, links right back to the drawing of the three. Yeah. Death, but not for you. Gunslinger did the story was published in between books four and five, which would means that it was done prior to king's accident. Although when he puts his author's note in everything's eventual, he mentions that book five is completed. So he gives the title way to that. And the other books that he wrote around the same time as this bag of bones, the girl, who loved Tom, Gordon. And then I thought it was interesting because in his author's note, prior to the story starting he says he had a really hard time coming up with the story about roll into shame to give to Silverberg. And then he said, one day he was in the shower where he does his best thinking at he was thinking of the talisman, and he had an image come to him of the white tent king, then he realized that he had a story that he could tell. And I'm like, boy, that's really interesting that he's thinking of a book that he wrote, but fifteen years earlier. And not even one of his more famous ones Tasman when he wrote with Peter Straub now trying to figure out like, why was he thinking of the talisman sort of out of the blue like that? But it turns out that he was also writing black house with Straub the sequel to talisman. So that might have been one of the reasons he was thinking of it when king wrote the talisman he did not necessarily think it had anything to do with Dr tower. But once he got around to writing black house. He firmly placed the other world that we learn about in the talent as one of the other worlds. Yep. At the dark tower links to and in fact, the whole idea of Twitter's comes from the talisman. So it's something that king carried forward into the dark tower stories that as part of the vocabulary of Rowland's world. Sure the book was also published in Donald grant edition in two thousand four there's only four thousand copies of those floating around, though, so congratulations. If. Got one of those not only does it include the little sisters of Laurie. But it also has the revised version of the gunslinger. So I think that, that was the grant edition with that. And that has new Illustrated's by Michael Wieland. I've seen a couple of online, they're pretty good L differ from Huilan's, other L stations, but nice as well. And then finally this story has had yet another life, as a marvel comic in two thousand ten and two thousand eleven it was adapted by Robin Furth, and Peter, David. And I think it was a five or six issue mini series that you could pick up the tells the whole story. So you wanna graphic representation of that you can pick that up. So Jay, you had mentioned earlier that Silverberg does an author's note in legends. For the little sisters of Loria. I had not read that until you shared that with me. So I just read it for the first time earlier today, there's some interesting stuff there. Yeah. When I first started to read this in the Silverberg collection, I didn't. I think that it was silver bergh's writing it, I, I assume that this was king writing an intro to his own story, as I kept encountering kind of sloppy generalizations incomplete summaries, and outright mistakes. I couldn't believe what I was reading. There's no way king would mess up this much than I finally realized. No. This is Silverberg. Introducing the first story in the collection, that's makes more sense. It doesn't excuse the sloppiness in the mistakes. But at least I know it's not king doing it. Who edits the editor, right? Yeah, I don't know. He needs a fact chapter because it like even simple things like Suzanne. His name is spelled wrong throughout. Yep. Silverberg makes the interesting, I guess, editor change here, where he refers to the men in black as simply the dark man, which is sort of correct. But it's definitely not something king had decided or established at the point of completing wizard and glass. Right. He was never the officially the same person at that point. So it's kind of like Silverberg made perhaps logical leap and happen to accidentally land on the right thing. He makes a, a big thing about how it uses the Matic elements from the Browning poem, and I don't know that uses the Matic elements. I think it just that uses elements of the text takes some names and the idea of the dark tower but that's about it. Yeah, there's no theme really earthy Matic element that it borrows one of the strangest of things that I. I couldn't quite wrap my head around was that silver goes through, and summarizes each of the book's one
"The. Every one to two guys to the dark tower king podcast, where we discussed the characters connections deeper, meanings of Stephen king's magnum opus the dark tower. I'm Jay Rousseau and I'm Shawn mcgurk. You can find more information about the podcast at two guys, the dark tower came dot com. You can also Email us at two guys dark tower at g mail dot com. In this episode. We'll be reading responding to listeners comments. Let's start the show. Jay, one of the joys of doing this podcast is getting to meet listeners from literally all around the world who have written into us by Email respond to Twitter left messages on Facebook left reviews on itunes, and it's great hearing from folks. And we thought that this would be good opportunity to share some of those with the rest of our listeners. And as we smoothly transitioned from the series, as a whole into some of the Ansari materials that we will be reading while we white not be able to get to everyone's emails and comments that were sent in because there were so many of them, we are going to pull out some of our favorites. And Sean, just to piggyback on that. It might sound flip into say we do it for the listeners but without listeners, we don't really have a podcast. We just have a conversation between Sean and meet, and who. Wants that. And we could just we could just do that without all the extra effort of making a podcast. So it really does mean a lot to hear from you, and we love everything that you've contributed requests for us to do things differently such as pronunciations or. Mike technique all the feedback. It's been great. Well as both Bain and President Trump said said, we do it for you. The people what was that saying accent, just like snuck out. So Sean, one of the first emails that I wanted to bring up in our discussion is one from Sarah Elms and Sarah reminded us in her Email that she's been a Stephen King fan for a long time in that. She's read a good number of his books short stories, too discovered the dark tower kind of late in her. Stephen King fandom, once she started reading the dark tower she was hooked. And she has now read or listened to the entire series of books, at least eight times while and she says that she finds that the story stays with her the way few others. Do she also goes on to praise our podcast a bit, or she says the podcast has been a wonderful way to revisit the story through fresh eyes and ears? This is the first doctor podcast that I've continued to listen to all the way through, you guys are thoughtful in critical. Don't take yourself, too. Seriously? You're quick to point out where you think Stephen King got it wrong and do so with great insight. I appreciate the care. And hard work. It has taken to continue making a podcast. I look forward to your continued thought and care for the dark tower. Adjacent novels and short stories, long, days and pleasant nights. Sarah. Well, thank you very much. Sarah, one of the things that interested me, Jay reading this Email, was the fact that she's ready to listen to the series at least eight times. Yeah. And we've talked before about how readers have come to this over and over again. And we were actually recently tagged in a Twitter discussion about somebody who's going through the series yet for another time. And I saw Twitter, also somebody who is actually spending their day today, going through all three extended Lord of the rings movies because that's something that they do on an annual basis. And in the Twitter discussion where we were specifically tagged. Somebody had mentioned that they read it fifteen times, which. Boggles boggles, the mind. That's a, that's a lot of rituals of should. Yes, it is. And what was interesting was that, that person said that they've gotten something out of it each and every time that read it something that they didn't see before at cetera. I appreciate that. Sara said that hearing our podcast has been away to revisit the story through fresh eyes and ears. And I do think there's something to be gained for that. And I used to be that way, a lot when I was younger, and as I've gotten older, and realized that my reading time, both actual time that I have in my life to read is finite as well, as how much lifetime I have left is finite and idea to make the best use of my time. I found myself, not revisiting books, and stories and movies over and over again. Like I used to it'll occasionally happen, but they're still a half a dozen to a dozen Stephen King books that have been written that I haven't gotten too, so I don't find myself going back rereading ones that were favorites like I used to. And I wonder as somebody who has read, I think you said the first. Three books of the series, at least three or four times. What your thoughts are